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D3baseball.com => Conferences by region => West Region => Topic started by: CrashDavisD3 on February 20, 2012, 08:23:11 PM

Title: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 20, 2012, 08:23:11 PM

TOP TEAMS IN THE WEST 2-20-2012


SCAC
Trinity-Texas 9-1
University of Dallas 8-0


ASC
Concordia-Texas 8-2
Texas-Tyler 6-1


NWC
Pacific Lutheran 4-2
Linfield 3-1


SCIAC
Occidental 8-3
La Verne 7-3
Pomona-Pitzer 6-1-1
Cal Lutheran 6-3
Chapman 4-3 :'(



MY TOP 10
1) UNIVERSITY OF DALLAS
2) TRINITY-TEXAS
3) CONCORDIA-TEXAS
4) TEXAS-TYLER
5) LINFIELD
6) LA VERNE
7) POMONA-PITZER
8) OCCIDENTAL
9) PACIFIC LUTHERAN
10) CAL LUTHERAN
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Piobark on February 21, 2012, 12:34:49 PM
For the NWC, I'd watch out for Whitworth.

Off to a 6-3-1 start on a pretty soft schedule. Wins over Oxy and UPS

They've got more pitching than in years past - with a freshman to watch in Spencer Ansett.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on February 21, 2012, 12:36:54 PM
I'd still find a way to place Chapman in the West's top ten. They will be there in the end and we all know it:)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 21, 2012, 12:51:39 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on February 21, 2012, 12:36:54 PM
I'd still find a way to place Chapman in the West's top ten. They will be there in the end and we all know it:)
I reserve my judgement until after the Trinity series. In the past they always seem to turn things around.

They have outstanding 1,2,3 guys in the pitching staff which we keep them in all games. They are struggling defensively. 2 of 3 losses are related to defense and poor middle to late relief pitching. These are very fixable things for Chapman I fully expect them at the end of the season to get that Pool C bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 21, 2012, 01:36:15 PM
It is still early and games the next two weeks will make things a lot clearer. I am not sure if UofDallas has played enough tough teams to rank them number 1. I saw the Concordia/Trinity game and it was a good one 3-2 with good arms on both sides. The weather (wind) made it a little closer than maybe it should have been as some pretty hard hit balls by TU were held up. TU is playing well but I am not sure about the number 1-2 ranking just yet either. They did take 2 of 3 from probably the best batting line up IMO in Div 3* (*moving down from D1...still)

That said I am still not sure where TU fits at the moment, they are clearly top 10 but how close to number 1 spot I am not sure.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on February 21, 2012, 01:36:42 PM
I have been under the impression that ratings are based upon now, not past performance(s) or future expectations, but where a team is now. Not that all voters have followed that practice all the time. Are there any printed guidelines as to what criteria the voters are to follow? If so, I would appreciate a link so I can read. Thanks.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on February 21, 2012, 01:51:05 PM
Quote from: dahlby on February 21, 2012, 01:36:42 PM
I have been under the impression that ratings are based upon now, not past performance(s) or future expectations, but where a team is now. Not that all voters have followed that practice all the time. Are there any printed guidelines as to what criteria the voters are to follow? If so, I would appreciate a link so I can read. Thanks.

To my knowledge, there is no set guideline for voters to follow. My preseason rankings have always been based on what I feel teams have coming back (though often what is coming back can be highlighted in the previous year's post-season while fewer teams are playing). I often feel that by late-March or Early-April (week 3 or 4 of the polls) the true identitites of teams have arrived. there are always a few biases in the ranking but I try to avoid them when possible. For example, I generally rate Carthage a bit lower than I feel they should be in order to avoid being called a "homer." Others rate their faves much higher than the rest of the pollsters. Just a difference in methods.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 21, 2012, 02:55:39 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on February 20, 2012, 08:23:11 PM

TOP TEAMS IN THE WEST 2-20-2012


SCAC
Trinity-Texas 9-1
University of Dallas 8-0


ASC
Concordia-Texas 8-2
Texas-Tyler 6-1


NWC
Pacific Lutheran 4-2
Linfield 3-1


SCIAC
Occidental 8-3
La Verne 7-3
Pomona-Pitzer 6-1-1
Cal Lutheran 6-3
Chapman 4-3 :'(



MY TOP 10
1) UNIVERSITY OF DALLAS
2) TRINITY-TEXAS
3) CONCORDIA-TEXAS
4) TEXAS-TYLER
5) LINFIELD
6) LA VERNE
7) POMONA-PITZER
8) OCCIDENTAL
9) PACIFIC LUTHERAN
10) CAL LUTHERAN

I have no votes for the top 25 but this is my opinion only. Teams have to prove to me they belong in the top  by winning and NOT losing to teams they should beat.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 21, 2012, 06:11:19 PM
I agree with you Crash, but you have to factor in SOS. It is commonly used in all D1 polls and rankings, and I think should be taken into account for other divisions. Not sure there is enough data in this regard for DIII. The only data I have is from last year and Chapman has a number 3/359 SOS and Occidental is a 139/359. Chapman is considered to have a number 1 for this year, so I would not be throwing them under the bus too soon. Same with Occidental, not sure they are a top 10 team and I am certain that UofDallas is not the number one team. (at least not yet)  As BigPoppa pointed out we will have a much better idea in another 4-5 weeks. In the mean time it makes for interesting conversation.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 21, 2012, 06:52:43 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 21, 2012, 06:11:19 PM
I agree with you Crash, but you have to factor in SOS. It is commonly used in all D1 polls and rankings, and I think should be taken into account for other divisions. Not sure there is enough data in this regard for DIII. The only data I have is from last year and Chapman has a number 3/359 SOS and Occidental is a 139/359. Chapman is considered to have a number 1 for this year, so I would not be throwing them under the bus too soon. Same with Occidental, not sure they are a top 10 team and I am certain that UofDallas is not the number one team. (at least not yet)  As BigPoppa pointed out we will have a much better idea in another 4-5 weeks. In the mean time it makes for interesting conversation.
Agreed !  ;D

Chapman has not yet begun their games against top teams yet and that is my concern. In the past the outstanding coaching staff at CU makes the adjustments necessary and rights the ship in the past and no doubt they could do it again. TOP 25 polls are great for fans, and supporters but to players and coaches the only thing that matters is 1st get into the playoffs, 2nd Win your Regional and 3rd Win the National Championship and I am sure those are CU goals every year and it dont matter how they get their even if the road is bumpy and sometimes ugly along the way.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2012, 09:52:56 PM
I would expect UDallas to win all 9 games.  ETBU has not been above mid-pack in the ASC East in several years. SRSU usually does well to go 7-14 in the ASC-West. Austin College is only fair.

UDallas has a 33 game schedule this season. I am expecting them to be 25-8 and 23-6 in-region at the least.

(Texas Wesleyan is NAIA. Texas-Arlington is D-1 Southland Conference, a good baseball conference.)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on February 22, 2012, 08:21:05 AM
I havent seen them play yet, but judging by their stats and who they have played, I am worried about UT Tylers pitching staff. I think this may be a dropoff year for them. Time will tell if I am right.

I watched the Trinity/UMHB game last night on the internet. Trinity looks very fundamentally sound. It was essentially a neck and neck game with UMHB leading going into the 7th. Trinity took the lead and won by executing first and third situations. I love the First and Third bunt play that Trinity always seems to execute. They have been doing that for years. One hit out of the infield, and 2 runs in the inning proved to be the difference. Nick Pappas also hit a ball that I still dont think has landed yet.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 22, 2012, 11:04:12 AM
I too watched the game DP. I would say Trinity looked a little sluggish at the start. 1st and 3rd in the first inning with no outs and not getting a run was not a good way to start the game. The UMHB pitcher was doing a great job for the first 4-5 innings, but this is how Trinity has been winning close games they keep chipping away at the starter until he gets pulled and then they jump on everyone else who comes in. Their pitching and bullpen keeps them in all games so even when they get behind, they have this swagger that they know they are going to come back. They will not win all close games but they're going to win their fare share. I loved the UMHB announcer, their music was really really really bad (how a college could even think about playing that stuff floors me!)  as well as the video quality was equally as bad.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on February 22, 2012, 12:09:50 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 22, 2012, 11:04:12 AM
I too watched the game DP. I would say Trinity looked a little sluggish at the start. 1st and 3rd in the first inning with no outs and not getting a run was not a good way to start the game. The UMHB pitcher was doing a great job for the first 4-5 innings, but this is how Trinity has been winning close games they keep chipping away at the starter until he gets pulled and then they jump on everyone else who comes in. Their pitching and bullpen keeps them in all games so even when they get behind, they have this swagger that they know they are going to come back. They will not win all close games but they're going to win their fare share. I loved the UMHB announcer, their music was really really really bad (how a college could even think about playing that stuff floors me!)  as well as the video quality was equally as bad.

The announcer is a friend and old teammate of mine. That was only his second or third game announcing, and its not too easy of a task. The music situation will get resolved...this is the first year providing live video feeds so they are just getting started. The video is what it is, but I wont complain since I am a tax guy and I cant make it to too many games in person, so I will take what I can get! Good luck to Trinity the rest of the way (except for the next UMHB game later in the season).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 22, 2012, 12:20:46 PM
I certainly don't want to complain, as it is nice to get a video feed....of any kind. The announcer was really good and it was clear he knew the game better than most TV network broadcasters. Seriously, I enjoyed listening to him, even when he took the volume down when he messed up the order and we heard a little shxx as the sound was going down, he recovered very nicely. Well done. If you see him tell him there were number or us who enjoyed him. A little polishing and there might be a future for him in New York!!!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 22, 2012, 01:54:56 PM
I love the early season rankings talk as much as the next guy but also know that it's tough to do.  A few of the teams mentioned were Univ. of Dallas and Oxy, both are off to great starts against awful schedules.

Univ of Dallas- They are off to a great 8-0 start but looking at the competition really should be taken into consideration here.  Dalls played East Texas Baptist who is 2-4 on the young season and a 3-game series with Sul Ross State and 2 with Austin College.
Sul Ross State is 2-9 and just got hammered in Arizona.  In the 4 games in AZ against Cal Lutheran, Linfield, Whitter and Whitman, Sul Ross State gave up 55 runs and only scored 11.  Dallas outscored Sul Ross by 4 in the series and won two 1-run games.  That says a lot in my opinion.  Austin has been terrible giving up 11.8 runs per game!!!
Although the 8-0 start is a great thing to look at, it has come against a terrible schedule (5-22 overall).

Oxy- Oxy made a huge statement this past weekend by sweeping Redlands.  That series is huge for Oxy and terrible for Redlands.  Although Oxy has started out great the combined record of their opponents is only 12-27-1 with their losses coming to Whitworth (x2) and Austin (x1).  Overall I think Oxy has been a huge surprise that looks like they could shake up the SCIAC.  Another big test this weekend with La Verne.

The way I see the West so far is with Trinity and Concordia at the top.  Trinity has been solid all around so far and Concordia took care of some good teams in Arizona (Cal Lutheran and La Verne).  Linfield is one of the top teams in the West as well but they have only played 4 games so it is a little tougher to tell but I fully expect them to be at the top throughout the season.  Chapman has been a little bumpy so far but they will straighten it out by the end of the year.  I fully expect them to be in the Regional (wherever it is) at the end of the year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 22, 2012, 04:48:02 PM
I agree Trinity and Concordia at this time look to be at the top....Interesting to see how Chapman does against Trinity at San Antonio in 2 weeks.

Chapman 3 losses have been to teams with a combine 19-11 records. Better defense and better relief pitching could have made 2 of those losses wins...Chapman's top 3 starters ERA are 0.64,0.64 and 1.50. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 23, 2012, 01:13:39 PM
TOP TEAMS IN THE WEST 2-23-2012


SCAC
Trinity-Texas 10-1
University of Dallas 9-0


ASC
Concordia-Texas 9-2
Texas-Tyler 7-1


NWC
Linfield 3-1
Pacific Lutheran 4-2
Whitworth 6-3-1


SCIAC
Occidental 8-3
La Verne 7-3
Pomona-Pitzer 6-1-1

CDD3's TOP 10
1) Linfield
2) Trinity-TX
3) Concordia-TX
4) Texas-Tyler
5) University of Dallas
6) Pomona-Pitzer
7) La Verne
8) Chapman/Cal Lu  *** Not sure if these teams will be there in 2 weeks.....Big ? in my mind
9) Pac Lu
10) Occidental ** If they can beat La Verne then I become a believer....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 23, 2012, 03:16:19 PM
I like the approach Crash......dare I say because you have some logic in it. I get the feeling that some of the other "official" pollsters lists are based on what they "thought" a team would be like based on the previous season in addition to player adds and losses. I think they like to keep non performing teams there...well just because they put them there at the start. In your approach you will probably get a wider variation week to week early in the season, but as the season progresses the cream will rise to the top. Nicely done!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 24, 2012, 01:10:16 PM
I am going to take a stab at my Top 10 in the West as well so feel free to bash or question me.

1. Trinity- Overall solid start.  Really looking forward to the Chapman series next week.
2. Linfield- Although they have a small sample size, I expect them to be at the top all year.
3. Concordia (TX)- Another good start against some pretty good competition.
4. Chapman- This was a tough spot for me since they are only 4-3 but they have Rauh and always seem to start out slow then dominate.  This season will probably be the same.
5. Pacific Lutheran- Another team with only a few games so far but they will battle Linfield for the NWC title.
6. La Verne- very skeptical about these guys but they could prove me wrong.
7. Cal Lutheran- Took 2/3 from Claremont and lost to 2 good squads in AZ.  This weekend with Pomona will make or break their season.
8. Pomona-Pitzer- Played a soft schedule so far and this weekend will do the same for their season as Cal Lutheran's.
9. UT-Tyler- Always overrated in my mind and unitl they do something to prove me otherwise, I can't put them higher.
10. Oxy/Dallas- I really don't feel like either will be here at the end of the year but there is no denyying their sexy records so far, even if it is against terrible competition.

I think TLU, Claremont, Whittier and (call me crazy) Hendrix will all be the teams to spoil this year.  Plenty of baseball to be played!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 24, 2012, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 24, 2012, 01:10:16 PM
I am going to take a stab at my Top 10 in the West as well so feel free to bash or question me.

1. Trinity- Overall solid start.  Really looking forward to the Chapman series next week.
2. Linfield- Although they have a small sample size, I expect them to be at the top all year.
3. Concordia (TX)- Another good start against some pretty good competition.
4. Chapman- This was a tough spot for me since they are only 4-3 but they have Rauh and always seem to start out slow then dominate.  This season will probably be the same.
5. Pacific Lutheran- Another team with only a few games so far but they will battle Linfield for the NWC title.
6. La Verne- very skeptical about these guys but they could prove me wrong.
7. Cal Lutheran- Took 2/3 from Claremont and lost to 2 good squads in AZ.  This weekend with Pomona will make or break their season.
8. Pomona-Pitzer- Played a soft schedule so far and this weekend will do the same for their season as Cal Lutheran's.
9. UT-Tyler- Always overrated in my mind and unitl they do something to prove me otherwise, I can't put them higher.
10. Oxy/Dallas- I really don't feel like either will be here at the end of the year but there is no denyying their sexy records so far, even if it is against terrible competition.

I think TLU, Claremont, Whittier and 9call me crazy) Hendrix will all be the teams to spoil this year.  Plenty of baseball to be played!

Nice job. Great observations. Keep it going. Your right about Chapman. Last year started slow(3-4 record) and got stronger as the season progresses. One big difference is Pool B and now being Pool C. They can no longer afford in region losses or they will not get the Pool C bid. In the past a weaker Pool B teams and the week SOS the other teams helped Chapman who always has one of the toughest SOS in the country,
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on February 24, 2012, 06:15:04 PM
Keep an eye out for Hardin Simmons as well. Steve Coleman always fields a good team, and it could very well come down to them VS Concordia to determine the West division champion this year in the ASC. Right now they excite me more than UT Tyler.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 25, 2012, 11:35:26 AM
Just saw that UTT beat CTX 3-2. Did not look at the box, but looks like a competitive game. I agree with you I like the CTX team and their closer is special.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on February 25, 2012, 07:27:48 PM
CTX wins today 6-3 and 8-0. Tyler looks like they just dont have the arms they have had in the past. Concordia looks like they have a VERY deep staff.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 25, 2012, 07:54:16 PM
I liked what I saw with CTX, I think they will be there at the end.

Trinity destroyed UofDallas today 12-1 in a mercy game. Klimesh had 14K's in 7 innings, TU had 15 hits. Trinity hit everyone UofD brought in. Tomorrow will give us a better view what UofD really is about. Trinity looks like they have a team that can get to Wisc.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 25, 2012, 09:33:20 PM
Chapman's Rauh strikes out 15 in 9 innings gives up 2 earned runs and goes out after 9 tied. Chapman loses again.  Lost in the 12th 3-2 to George Fox.

Things are not looking good for Chapman. Chapman is 2-5 in last 7 games(counting exhibition with BC)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 25, 2012, 11:49:25 PM
I have not seen CU Crash, but a 3-2 game is a very good baseball game and generally a play here or there can change the game. They are playing tough teams close, so I would not give up hope too soon. If they played an easier schedule they could be 9-3. Fox beat Concordia Tx, which is a pretty good team. This is one of the dangers of having such a tough schedule, as sometimes the team needs a little breathing room, which they don't have this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on February 26, 2012, 07:48:20 AM
People are really going to complain when Chapman gets a Pool C bid because of their SoS. They are playing a solid schedule and while they are taking their lumps right now, I am certain that no one wants to be paired against them in May.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 26, 2012, 12:29:47 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on February 26, 2012, 07:48:20 AM
People are really going to complain when Chapman gets a Pool C bid because of their SoS. They are playing a solid schedule and while they are taking their lumps right now, I am certain that no one wants to be paired against them in May.

I agree that they will pull it together but there does have to be some cause for concern in the fact that Chapman's opponents so far ar a combined 22-26 (.458 winning %) and they really have not played anywhere near the tough portion yet.  I am not going to discount Chapman as they are one of the best in the country, but something just doesn't seem to be clicking this year.

As the season continues they are going to get a lot of help in their schedule from teams like Trinity and Linfield, but unless they start winning the games they should win (like Whittier, Claremont, George Fox) they are going to continue to dig themselves a hole.  The 3 game series against Whitman (who is playing teams very tough but is still losing) is shaping up to give a big hit to Chapmans SOS.

Like I said, I am not discounting Chapman one bit and fully expect them to bounce back but right now I still have a few doubts.  Could Chapman's schedule come back to haunt them this year?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 26, 2012, 04:49:40 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 26, 2012, 12:29:47 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on February 26, 2012, 07:48:20 AM
People are really going to complain when Chapman gets a Pool C bid because of their SoS. They are playing a solid schedule and while they are taking their lumps right now, I am certain that no one wants to be paired against them in May.

I agree that they will pull it together but there does have to be some cause for concern in the fact that Chapman's opponents so far ar a combined 22-26 (.458 winning %) and they really have not played anywhere near the tough portion yet.  I am not going to discount Chapman as they are one of the best in the country, but something just doesn't seem to be clicking this year.

As the season continues they are going to get a lot of help in their schedule from teams like Trinity and Linfield, but unless they start winning the games they should win (like Whittier, Claremont, George Fox) they are going to continue to dig themselves a hole.  The 3 game series against Whitman (who is playing teams very tough but is still losing) is shaping up to give a big hit to Chapmans SOS.

Like I said, I am not discounting Chapman one bit and fully expect them to bounce back but right now I still have a few doubts.  Could Chapman's schedule come back to haunt them this year?
Chapman is down 4-1 to George Fox so far today in the 6th. Chapman's pitchers have given up ZERO earned runs so far but 6 errors for Chapman's defense has cost them
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 26, 2012, 06:30:01 PM
Well Jack, according to Crash at least, what is going to do them in is poor fielding. It does not matter what level you play you won't win many games with 6 errors!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 26, 2012, 07:18:31 PM
MY TOP 10 in the West 2-26-2012

1) Trinity(12-1)
2) Linfield(6-1)
3) Concordia-Texas(7-3)
4) Pomona Pitzer(7-3-1)
5) Texas-Tyler(7-3)
6) Texas-Lutheran(6-2)
7) Pacific Lutheran(5-2)
8) University of Dallas(9-2)
9) La Verne(9-4)
10) Cal Lutheran(8-4)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 27, 2012, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on February 26, 2012, 07:18:31 PM
MY TOP 10 in the West 2-26-2012

1) Trinity(12-1)
2) Linfield(6-1)
3) Concordia-Texas(7-3)
4) Pomona Pitzer(7-3-1)- Lose 2 of 3 to Cal Lu and go up?
5) Texas-Tyler(7-3)
6) Texas-Lutheran(6-2)
7) Pacific Lutheran(5-2)
8) University of Dallas(9-2)- Am I the only one that thinks they were exposed for the team they really are?
9) La Verne(9-4)
10) Cal Lutheran(8-4)- Win 2 of 3 from Pomona and drop?

I will take a stab based off of your but I have a few questions in red for yours.

1. Trinity- no doubt
2. Linfield- Class of the NWC
3. Concordia- Solid squad
4. Pacific Lutheran- Might battle Linfield
5. La Verne- Still not sold on them but took 2 of 3 from Oxy
6. Texas Lutheran- Havent really played anyone yet, verdict still out.
7. Cal Lutheran- Solid series win over Pomona-Pitzer
8. Pomona-Pitzer- Drop close series with Cal Lutheran
9. UT- Tyler- Still not sold at all
10. Chapman- It's tough to think they are not one of the top teams but they got beat 2 of 3 by a very average George Fox team.  Errors or no errors, losses are losses and they are already putting Chapman in dangerous position.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 27, 2012, 01:38:34 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 27, 2012, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on February 26, 2012, 07:18:31 PM
MY TOP 10 in the West 2-26-2012

1) Trinity(12-1)
2) Linfield(6-1)
3) Concordia-Texas(7-3)
4) Pomona Pitzer(7-3-1)- Lose 2 of 3 to Cal Lu and go up?
5) Texas-Tyler(7-3)
6) Texas-Lutheran(6-2)
7) Pacific Lutheran(5-2)
8) University of Dallas(9-2)- Am I the only one that thinks they were exposed for the team they really are?
9) La Verne(9-4)
10) Cal Lutheran(8-4)- Win 2 of 3 from Pomona and drop?

I will take a stab based off of your but I have a few questions in red for yours.

1. Trinity- no doubt
2. Linfield- Class of the NWC
3. Concordia- Solid squad
4. Pacific Lutheran- Might battle Linfield
5. La Verne- Still not sold on them but took 2 of 3 from Oxy - Not sure what to think of La Veren yet. Will they hold on in weeks to come
6. Texas Lutheran- Havent really played anyone yet, verdict still out.
7. Cal Lutheran- Solid series win over Pomona-Pitzer Head to Head they should be higher than Pomona but will Cal Lu be tripped on a team they should beat.
8. Pomona-Pitzer- Drop close series with Cal Lutheran [/color]Could drop out of top 10 if they lose another series.
9. UT- Tyler- Still not sold at all [/color]Should stay in top 10 until lose
10. Chapman- It's tough to think they are not one of the top teams but they got beat 2 of 3 by a very average George Fox team.  Errors or no errors, losses are losses and they are already putting Chapman in dangerous position. If Chapman gets swept by Trinity it could mean too many in region losses and they will not get a Pool C bid. Still have 4 with Linfield and Pac Lu also
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 27, 2012, 01:57:58 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on February 27, 2012, 01:38:34 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 27, 2012, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on February 26, 2012, 07:18:31 PM
MY TOP 10 in the West 2-26-2012

1) Trinity(12-1)
2) Linfield(6-1)
3) Concordia-Texas(7-3)
4) Pomona Pitzer(7-3-1)- Lose 2 of 3 to Cal Lu and go up?
5) Texas-Tyler(7-3)
6) Texas-Lutheran(6-2)
7) Pacific Lutheran(5-2)
8) University of Dallas(9-2)- Am I the only one that thinks they were exposed for the team they really are?
9) La Verne(9-4)
10) Cal Lutheran(8-4)- Win 2 of 3 from Pomona and drop?

I will take a stab based off of your but I have a few questions in red for yours.

1. Trinity- no doubt
2. Linfield- Class of the NWC
3. Concordia- Solid squad
4. Pacific Lutheran- Might battle Linfield
5. La Verne- Still not sold on them but took 2 of 3 from Oxy - Not sure what to think of La Veren yet. Will they hold on in weeks to come
6. Texas Lutheran- Havent really played anyone yet, verdict still out.
7. Cal Lutheran- Solid series win over Pomona-Pitzer Head to Head they should be higher than Pomona but will Cal Lu be tripped on a team they should beat.
8. Pomona-Pitzer- Drop close series with Cal Lutheran [/color]Could drop out of top 10 if they lose another series.
9. UT- Tyler- Still not sold at all [/color]Should stay in top 10 until lose
10. Chapman- It's tough to think they are not one of the top teams but they got beat 2 of 3 by a very average George Fox team.  Errors or no errors, losses are losses and they are already putting Chapman in dangerous position. If Chapman gets swept by Trinity it could mean too many in region losses and they will not get a Pool C bid. Still have 4 with Linfield and Pac Lu also

I agree 100% on La Verne.  I don't know which why they will go the rest of the year.
I think the Cal Lutheran/Pomona argument is a tough one since both are off to good starts but we will see what happens.  Either one could go on a good streak or drop out fast.
I don't see Trinity sweeping Chapman if they can just play catch.  If Chapman continues to make errors, they are screwed.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 27, 2012, 02:36:55 PM
1.   Trinity
2.   Linfield
3.   Concordia (Tx)
4.   Pacific Lutheran
5.   CLU
6.   Pomona


The rest I am not sure about, as they have not really played any tough teams or series. It is still early so until a team play a quality opponent for a series it is hard to get a good read on them.

I also think that Chapman will get it together. If they take 2/3 from Trinity then they are back heading in the right direction. Even if they lose 2/3 and they are close good games than the same thing. If they get swept or get blown out, then they are in trouble. Will be an interesting series to watch. You can bet the coaching staff and team will be working hard this week.

I also have to say that toughness of schedule means a lot. I watched both UofDallas/Trinity games over the weekend (video) and was not all that impressed with them. They are decent, but not a top 10 team. Undefeated does not mean much IMO against weak competition. I thought UMHB looked better than them, although I only saw the one game. 

I also have to send out some props to Centenary. I realize that they are transitioning down to DIII, but that is the best hitting lineup in DIII* I have seen. Their pitching is mediocre, after their number 1, but they will beat your brains out with those bats.

I also realize that Millsaps is considered a southern school, but they are young and going to surprise some folks and I predict they will beat out BSC in the SCAC East.

My Monday morning 2 cents.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 27, 2012, 03:41:46 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 27, 2012, 02:36:55 PM
1.   Trinity
2.   Linfield
3.   Concordia (Tx)
4.   Pacific Lutheran
5.   CLU
6.   Pomona


The rest I am not sure about, as they have not really played any tough teams or series. It is still early so until a team play a quality opponent for a series it is hard to get a good read on them.

I also think that Chapman will get it together. If they take 2/3 from Trinity then they are back heading in the right direction. Even if they lose 2/3 and they are close good games than the same thing. If they get swept or get blown out, then they are in trouble. Will be an interesting series to watch. You can bet the coaching staff and team will be working hard this week.

I also have to say that toughness of schedule means a lot. I watched both UofDallas/Trinity games over the weekend (video) and was not all that impressed with them. They are decent, but not a top 10 team. Undefeated does not mean much IMO against weak competition. I thought UMHB looked better than them, although I only saw the one game. 

I also have to send out some props to Centenary. I realize that they are transitioning down to DIII, but that is the best hitting lineup in DIII* I have seen. Their pitching is mediocre, after their number 1, but they will beat your brains out with those bats.

I also realize that Millsaps is considered a southern school, but they are young and going to surprise some folks and I predict they will beat out BSC in the SCAC East.

My Monday morning 2 cents.


Nice job. If the playoffs started today these could be the 6. But lots of baseball to play until May...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on February 27, 2012, 07:06:31 PM
I have no idea how this weekend's Trinity/Chapman series will go. However, after being in Dallas last weekend, it was interesting to watch Michael Schweiss shut down Trinity for 6+ innings. Trinity had taken apart the previous pitchers in both games, but Schweiss came in, kept the ball down, had hard break on his slider and held Trinity to 3 hits.

Given the ERA's of the Chapman starters, I think the series could be very close. Small ball and defense will make the difference this weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on February 27, 2012, 08:02:20 PM
This Trinity Chapman series could seriously make or break Chapman's season. Losing 2 to Trinity and then losing 2 or 3 to Linfield may put them out of pool c contention. We have had plenty of 30+ win teams in the last 5-6 years who havent made pool c.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 28, 2012, 01:06:25 AM
Quote from: dp643 on February 27, 2012, 08:02:20 PM
This Trinity Chapman series could seriously make or break Chapman's season. Losing 2 to Trinity and then losing 2 or 3 to Linfield may put them out of pool c contention. We have had plenty of 30+ win teams in the last 5-6 years who havent made pool c.
Chapman will need to go 25-5 in its remaining games to get to 30 wins. Tough thing to ask with games left with Trinity(3), Pac Lu(4), Linfield(4), La Verne(3), Pomona(3), Cal Lu(1), Redlands(3),Clarermont(1)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 28, 2012, 06:02:41 AM
February 28, 2012
2012 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25
#     School (1st votes)     

2012
Record
    Pts     Prev.
2     Linfield     6-1     558     4
9     Trinity (Texas)     12-1     360     22
11     Chapman     5-5     307     2
23     Concordia (Texas)     11-3     108     -
24     Texas-Tyler     8-3     106     23

Dropped Out: No. 20 Redlands

Also receiving votes: Cal Lutheran 40, Redlands 37, University of Dallas 20, Pomona-Pitzer 17, La Verne 13, Texas-Dallas 7,

The D3baseball.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly. Full members of NCAA Division III are eligible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 28, 2012, 10:53:00 AM
Couple of thoughts on the top 25 polls. 1) I believe there is a tendency for voters to keep teams that were previously ranked and voted for, regardless of performance so these polls tend to have some "weighting effects" in them. 2) Us "guys on the boards" tend to look at recent performance more so than previous votes since we don't have any buy in since they are not publicly distributed. 3) A bunch of teams have not even played a game so I don't think the polls will mean much (other than the teams who have played 10+ games) for the next few weeks.

That said the Linfield, Trinity, Chapman, Concordia, and UTT are all worthy Western  teams.

When do the other coaches polls come out?

I don't know the history of getting a bid regarding number of wins, but I would think that if Chapman gets to 25 wins with their SoS they might get an invite to the tournament. Again I don't know the history and it probably depends on what other teams have done.


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 28, 2012, 11:21:14 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 28, 2012, 10:53:00 AM
Couple of thoughts on the top 25 polls. 1) I believe there is a tendency for voters to keep teams that were previously ranked and voted for, regardless of performance so these polls tend to have some "weighting effects" in them. 2) Us "guys on the boards" tend to look at recent performance more so than previous votes since we don't have any buy in since they are not publicly distributed. 3) A bunch of teams have not even played a game so I don't think the polls will mean much (other than the teams who have played 10+ games) for the next few weeks.

That said the Linfield, Trinity, Chapman, Concordia, and UTT are all worthy Western  teams.

When do the other coaches polls come out?

I don't know the history of getting a bid regarding number of wins, but I would think that if Chapman gets to 25 wins with their SoS they might get an invite to the tournament. Again I don't know the history and it probably depends on what other teams have done.



I am very surprised Chapman is still in top 25.

Key to Chapman will be there in Region Winning percentage since that is one of the prime criteria used in the Pool C bid selection along with SOS...which right now is 4-4 .500 which would not get them a Pool C bid at the end of the season. Overall record is one of the secondary criteria used and decisions are made before that in most cases.  Win in-region games they go...if not they stay home. Taking 2 of 3 from Trinity would be a good start in turning things around.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on February 28, 2012, 11:41:12 AM
I was not able to vote in the poll this week, but I would have placed Chapman in the 24-30th range. I had them #2 in the pre-season poll so they would have dropped at least 22 spots in one poll from my end.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on February 28, 2012, 11:44:33 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 28, 2012, 10:53:00 AM
Couple of thoughts on the top 25 polls. 1) I believe there is a tendency for voters to keep teams that were previously ranked and voted for, regardless of performance so these polls tend to have some "weighting effects" in them. 2) Us "guys on the boards" tend to look at recent performance more so than previous votes since we don't have any buy in since they are not publicly distributed. 3) A bunch of teams have not even played a game so I don't think the polls will mean much (other than the teams who have played 10+ games) for the next few weeks.

That said the Linfield, Trinity, Chapman, Concordia, and UTT are all worthy Western  teams.

When do the other coaches polls come out?

I don't know the history of getting a bid regarding number of wins, but I would think that if Chapman gets to 25 wins with their SoS they might get an invite to the tournament. Again I don't know the history and it probably depends on what other teams have done.
One team in my top 10 is 0-2. Another in my top 25 is 0-3. Some of the best teams in the country will lose a dozen or more games this season. That written, I don't have a certain 5-5 team in my top 25.

The first two weeks of baseball polls are extremely difficult to gauge with the staggered starts. Your points are well taken and justified, but if you have time, try to create your own top 25 through Monday's games. Mine will be posted in Around the Nation tomorrow. Nine of my 25 are not even ranked, and three top 10 teams were not in my top 25.

It'll work itself out. But in the meantime we all think we're right. And in a way, we are.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on February 28, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
I get that Chapman is struggling, but they are 4-3 vs D3 teams. NAIA games vs Point Loma, Cal-State San Marcos and British Columbia (exhibition/scrimmage). I hardly think 4-3 is a reason to quit on a team at this point in the season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 28, 2012, 12:51:23 PM
I look forward to your list Ricky. I wish I had the time to do a full top 25, it is hard enough to just keep track of the West teams and the SCAC East teams for me. (plus it is more fun to throw rocks at the Pundant's!!) I can see how difficult early rankings are when you have some teams who have not even played yet. A number 2 team like Chapman comes out and stinks it up.... Speaking of SCAC East, I get the feeling that Millsaps is going to show up on a few peoples lists (or at least they should IMO) they are 8-2 and lost close games to what is shaping up to be a good Piedmont team (there is a poster here who said preseason look out and he is right) and good Huntingdon team. Millsaps generally has a very competitive program and it looks like they have some good young players contributing early. BSC I am not so sure about, but it is early.

I was surprised the Trinity was not in the top 5, they have beaten some very good teams including Centenary that has mostly a D1 line up still, mostly with their bullpen pitchers. (although Klimesh came in and gave up a save and got a win....) I think they have the pitching this year to finally take them to Wisc.

As you say it will be a whole lot clearer in two weeks.

I, like Bbfan62, am going to enjoy the Trinity/Chapman games this weekend!

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 28, 2012, 01:10:23 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on February 28, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
I get that Chapman is struggling, but they are 4-3 vs D3 teams. NAIA games vs Point Loma, Cal-State San Marcos and British Columbia (exhibition/scrimmage). I hardly think 4-3 is a reason to quit on a team at this point in the season.
I agree Chapman has always in the past turned things around and I have no doubt they will do it again but they do need to starting turning things around soon. They are 4-4 vs D3 and all are in region games.

Their 4 losses are to Whittier(8-5) Claremont(6-7) George Fox(4-8). The tougher part of the schedule is ahead of them.
They could be 7-1 in region with some good defense and runs scored. 1,2,3 starting pitching has been outstanding with ERA's under 2.00
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BBFan62 on February 28, 2012, 01:14:13 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 28, 2012, 12:51:23 PM
I look forward to your list Ricky. I wish I had the time to do a full top 25, it is hard enough to just keep track of the West teams and the SCAC East teams for me. (plus it is more fun to throw rocks at the Pundant's!!) I can see how difficult early rankings are when you have some teams who have not even played yet. A number 2 team like Chapman comes out and stinks it up.... Speaking of SCAC East, I get the feeling that Millsaps is going to show up on a few peoples lists (or at least they should IMO) they are 8-2 and lost close games to what is shaping up to be a good Piedmont team (there is a poster here who said preseason look out and he is right) and good Huntingdon team. Millsaps generally has a very competitive program and it looks like they have some good young players contributing early. BSC I am not so sure about, but it is early.

I was surprised the Trinity was not in the top 5, they have beaten some very good teams including Centenary that has mostly a D1 line up still, mostly with their bullpen pitchers. (although Klimesh came in and gave up a save and got a win....) I think they have the pitching this year to finally take them to Wisc.

As you say it will be a whole lot clearer in two weeks.

I, like Bbfan62, am going to enjoy the Trinity/Chapman games this weekend!

108stitches -
See you there!
can't really agree on Chapman "stinking up the joint, etc." Some struggling, yes. However, I'm sure most schools would love to have 3 starters such as Rauh, McGee, and Levitt:
                         IP     H   W     K    ERA    OPBA
Rauh                  23.   12   7    27   1.17   .148
McGee               23     20  4    20   1.57    .241
Levitt                15     15  0    13    1.80   .268

The problem seems to be they only have 3 guys at +.300 BA and some defense issues. I think they'll challenge in the end. I'm not sure who they lost from last year, but at least they have 3 strong starters.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on February 28, 2012, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on February 28, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
I get that Chapman is struggling, but they are 4-3 vs D3 teams. NAIA games vs Point Loma, Cal-State San Marcos and British Columbia (exhibition/scrimmage). I hardly think 4-3 is a reason to quit on a team at this point in the season.
Nowhere did I imply quitting on any team. It is what it is right now. Things could change after the Trinity series, but a 4-4 record against teams with a combined 21-19 D-III record is where it stands. Not bad.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on February 28, 2012, 01:37:09 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 28, 2012, 12:51:23 PM
I look forward to your list Ricky. I wish I had the time to do a full top 25, it is hard enough to just keep track of the West teams and the SCAC East teams for me. (plus it is more fun to throw rocks at the Pundant's!!) I can see how difficult early rankings are when you have some teams who have not even played yet. A number 2 team like Chapman comes out and stinks it up.... Speaking of SCAC East, I get the feeling that Millsaps is going to show up on a few peoples lists (or at least they should IMO) they are 8-2 and lost close games to what is shaping up to be a good Piedmont team (there is a poster here who said preseason look out and he is right) and good Huntingdon team. Millsaps generally has a very competitive program and it looks like they have some good young players contributing early. BSC I am not so sure about, but it is early.

I was surprised the Trinity was not in the top 5, they have beaten some very good teams including Centenary that has mostly a D1 line up still, mostly with their bullpen pitchers. (although Klimesh came in and gave up a save and got a win....) I think they have the pitching this year to finally take them to Wisc.

As you say it will be a whole lot clearer in two weeks.

I, like Bbfan62, am going to enjoy the Trinity/Chapman games this weekend!
Please, throw rocks. Polls are ripe for debate, and there's no better time to poke holes in those opinions than right now. Any number of arguments can made at this time of year. It's pretty great.

I'm jealous that you'll be at the TU/CU games purely for baseball reasons, but a small part of me also envies the nicer weather. I felt sad when I was watching a Texas matchup last week and the announcer said it was 85 degrees. Another night a guy said he was freezing after it got to be 48 at night. I've seen people tanning outside when it's 55 up here. I'll have to settle for following online with a space heater blasting my feet.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on February 28, 2012, 03:21:02 PM
If UDallas doesnt get a Pool B bid, there will be room for one more Pool C than the West region is used to getting since Chapman isnt going to be getting a Pool B bid. This may turn out to benefit the west region potential Pool C candidates right?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on February 28, 2012, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: dp643 on February 28, 2012, 03:21:02 PM
If UDallas doesnt get a Pool B bid, there will be room for one more Pool C than the West region is used to getting since Chapman isnt going to be getting a Pool B bid. This may turn out to benefit the west region potential Pool C candidates right?

I think there may be fewer Pool Bs awarded this season than in the past. A few Pool B conferences have now become Pool C eligible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on February 28, 2012, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: dp643 on February 28, 2012, 03:21:02 PM
If UDallas doesnt get a Pool B bid, there will be room for one more Pool C than the West region is used to getting since Chapman isnt going to be getting a Pool B bid. This may turn out to benefit the west region potential Pool C candidates right?
I believe U of Dallas is in the SCAC now and so they can't get a pool B bid anymore.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 28, 2012, 11:09:00 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on February 28, 2012, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: dp643 on February 28, 2012, 03:21:02 PM
If UDallas doesnt get a Pool B bid, there will be room for one more Pool C than the West region is used to getting since Chapman isnt going to be getting a Pool B bid. This may turn out to benefit the west region potential Pool C candidates right?
I believe U of Dallas is in the SCAC now and so they can't get a pool B bid anymore.
Last year there were only 2 bids total for the nation for Pool B. There are no longer any Pool B teams in the West Region. Only Pool A for conference winners for SCIAC, NWC, ASC and SCAC and Pool C bids that a rewarded on a national not regional basis.

If I am wrong someone who knows better please correct me.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on February 28, 2012, 11:19:50 PM
Crash:
I believe UCSC is still an Indy.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 29, 2012, 01:39:07 PM
Quote from: dahlby on February 28, 2012, 11:19:50 PM
Crash:
I believe UCSC is still an Indy.
I stand corrrected UC-Santa Cruz home of the The Banana Slug mascot is a Pool B but they dont play DIII baseball last time I checked. I still would give them top billing for their mascot.
http://www.ucsc.edu/about/mascot.html (http://www.ucsc.edu/about/mascot.html)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on February 29, 2012, 03:07:33 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on February 28, 2012, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: dp643 on February 28, 2012, 03:21:02 PM
If UDallas doesnt get a Pool B bid, there will be room for one more Pool C than the West region is used to getting since Chapman isnt going to be getting a Pool B bid. This may turn out to benefit the west region potential Pool C candidates right?
I believe U of Dallas is in the SCAC now and so they can't get a pool B bid anymore.

Thanks for the correction. I did not know that.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 01, 2012, 11:39:57 AM
Trinity VS Chapman

Chapman
BA .277
OBA .341
SLG% .377
FLD% .950
ERA 4.30
LOB 71
DP 71 6

Trinity
BA .309O
BA .399
SLG%.484
FLD% .987
ERA 2.50
LOB 92
DP 92 13
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on March 01, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
Crash:
You are depressing me!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 01, 2012, 12:03:54 PM
Thanks!

Are your LOB, DP numbers correct? Seems odd that both teams would have the same LOB and DP numbers.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 01, 2012, 12:15:06 PM
LOL - 71 and 92 DPs would be an awful lot, wouldn't they?   ;)  I think the LOB #s are correct.

Trinity has turned 2 DPs, Chapman has turned 6.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 01, 2012, 12:27:29 PM
LOL. OK I went and looked myself.

Trinity
LOB - Team (92), Opp (75). DPs turned - Team (13), Opp (7).
Chapman
LOB - Team (71), Opp (84). DPs turned - Team (6), Opp (11).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on March 01, 2012, 12:35:29 PM
I am going to guess that Trinity's .309 avg. may take a small hit this weekend as Chapman's top three arms are pretty tough to hit against... not to say that Chapman will actually catch the ball once it is put into play, but either weay, it would not count as a hit.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 01, 2012, 01:07:11 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 01, 2012, 12:35:29 PM
I am going to guess that Trinity's .309 avg. may take a small hit this weekend as Chapman's top three arms are pretty tough to hit against... not to say that Chapman will actually catch the ball once it is put into play, but either weay, it would not count as a hit.
It's a simple game. You hit the ball, you throw the ball, you catch the ball
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on March 01, 2012, 01:31:13 PM
Trinity's field is not a good place to play if you have a hard time catching the ball (it get's pretty beat-up with football practice) :'(
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 01, 2012, 01:40:55 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 01, 2012, 01:07:11 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 01, 2012, 12:35:29 PM
I am going to guess that Trinity's .309 avg. may take a small hit this weekend as Chapman's top three arms are pretty tough to hit against... not to say that Chapman will actually catch the ball once it is put into play, but either weay, it would not count as a hit.


Trinity's field is not a good place to play if you have a hard time catching the ball (it get's pretty beat-up with football practice)

It's a simple game. You hit the ball, you throw the ball, you catch the ball
But as long you score the most runs I take the W over batting average and fielding percentage...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 02, 2012, 12:16:44 AM
Quote from: ILVBB on March 01, 2012, 01:31:13 PM
Trinity's field is not a good place to play if you have a hard time catching the ball (it get's pretty beat-up with football practice) :'(
they dont practice on the infield.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on March 02, 2012, 12:22:50 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 02, 2012, 12:16:44 AM
Quote from: ILVBB on March 01, 2012, 01:31:13 PM
Trinity's field is not a good place to play if you have a hard time catching the ball (it get's pretty beat-up with football practice) :'(
they dont practice on the infield.

Well, both teams play on the same field this weekend.
Trinity has been catching the ball and throwing it on that "not a good place" this year...and apparently Chapman has struggled a bit at Orange, which I guess must be a good place?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 02, 2012, 04:12:46 AM
Quote from: infielddad on March 02, 2012, 12:22:50 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 02, 2012, 12:16:44 AM
Quote from: ILVBB on March 01, 2012, 01:31:13 PM
Trinity's field is not a good place to play if you have a hard time catching the ball (it get's pretty beat-up with football practice) :'(
they dont practice on the infield.

Well, both teams play on the same field this weekend.
Trinity has been catching the ball and throwing it on that "not a good place" this year...and apparently Chapman has struggled a bit at Orange, which I guess must be a good place?
Chapman has excellent playing surface in the infield and outstanding pitching mound. But it both teams have to play on the same surface so no blaming the playing surface at Trinity

Chapman Defensive Stats :'(
Chances 404
Putouts 207
Assists 114
Errors 20
Fielding % .950
Passed Balls 11
Caught Stealing 5
Stolen Bases Against 6
SBA % .545
Unearned Runs 15

Trinity Defensive Stats ;D
Chances 465
Putouts 324
Assists 135
Errors 6
Fielding % .987
Passed Balls 3
Caught Stealing 3
Stolen Bases Against 21
SBA % .875
Unearned Runs 2
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 02, 2012, 08:11:38 AM
No need to bunt this weekend for Chapman, just steal second.

Those are ridiculous defensive stats for Trinity though, aside from the SB%.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 02, 2012, 08:50:37 AM
Quote from: dp643 on March 02, 2012, 08:11:38 AM
No need to bunt this weekend for Chapman, just steal second.

Those are ridiculous defensive stats for Trinity though, aside from the SB%.
luckily the SB's havent hurt TU yet.  With Klimesh averaging 14.3 K's per 9, he has the ability to get out of jam's himself.  Lucero being a lefty slows the running game on his own.  Will be interesting to see how the series plays out. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 02, 2012, 10:51:57 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 02, 2012, 08:50:37 AM
Quote from: dp643 on March 02, 2012, 08:11:38 AM
No need to bunt this weekend for Chapman, just steal second.

Those are ridiculous defensive stats for Trinity though, aside from the SB%.
luckily the SB's havent hurt TU yet.  With Klimesh averaging 14.3 K's per 9, he has the ability to get out of jam's himself.  Lucero being a lefty slows the running game on his own.  Will be interesting to see how the series plays out. 
TRINITY VS CHAPMAN FRIDAY MARCH 2, 2012 7 PM CT  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

LIVE VIDEO/LIVE STATS http://trinitytigers.com/sports/bsb/2011-12/schedule

Klimesh VS Rauh

RAUH
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fchapman.prestosports.com%2Fsports%2Fbsb%2F2010-11%2Fphotos%2FRauh3.jpg&hash=fd50f01e0284e9ccbdb425a46b7ccec908db7b73)
CAREER W-L 24-0
ERA 1.17
W-L 2-0
APP/S 3-3
IP 23
H 12
R 5
ER 3
BB 7
SO 27
2B 2
3B 0
HR 0
AB 81
B/AVG .148
WP 2
HBP 1
K's per 9 - 10.6

Klimesh
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.d3baseball.com%2Fimages%2F2012%2FTrinity-Klimesh350.JPG&hash=13deb9006aca1993fae99ce4d5acab4368131be8)
ERA 1.41
W-L 5-0
APP/S 5-4
IP 32
H 19
R 6
ER 5
BB 8
SO 51
2B 5
3B 1
HR 1
AB 111
B/AVG .171
WP 4
HBP 0
K's per 9 - 14.3
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on March 02, 2012, 11:11:02 AM
This could be a 0-0 game into the 11th if both guys have their best stuff
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 02, 2012, 11:34:30 AM
Trinity has been winning games by grinding out every at bat, and every opportunity, they will keep running, bunting, slashing, hit and running, and putting pressure on you. If that does not work then someone, and you never know who, will jack one. They are relentless. They will do the same thing with Rau, and will either find a crack in his armor, or they will keep working him until he is out of there and then they will strike. It may only be a run but that is all that they will need with Klimesh and their bullpen. Even if they get down they don't care, as they know they will strike eventually, and many times it is with 2 outs late in the game and suddenly they break out, and you think how the heck did that happen. This is one very scrappy team and fun to watch. That said this series will likely be a low scoring affair with both pitching staffs.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 02, 2012, 11:44:48 AM
Rauh has NEVER lost a game?  That's freakin' amazing. 

For all the deserved talk about Klimesh, don't overlook what Lucero has done so far:

ERA 0.64
W-L 4-0
APP/S 4-4
IP 28.1
H 11
R 2
ER 2
BB 8
SO 31
2B 0
3B 0
HR 0
AB 89
B/AVG .124
WP 0
HBP 1
K's per 9 - 10.0
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 02, 2012, 12:35:18 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 02, 2012, 11:44:48 AM
Rauh has NEVER lost a game?  That's freakin' amazing. 

For all the deserved talk about Klimesh, don't overlook what Lucero has done so far:

ERA 0.64
W-L 4-0
APP/S 4-4
IP 28.1
H 11
R 2
ER 2
BB 8
SO 31
2B 0
3B 0
HR 0
AB 89
B/AVG .124
WP 0
HBP 1
K's per 9 - 10.0
Not bad for a 1-2 punch for Trinity-TX, Marrieta last year had a great 1-2 pitchers and won a national championship
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on March 02, 2012, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 02, 2012, 11:34:30 AM
Trinity has been winning games by grinding out every at bat, and every opportunity, they will keep running, bunting, slashing, hit and running, and putting pressure on you. If that does not work then someone, and you never know who, will jack one. They are relentless. They will do the same thing with Rau, and will either find a crack in his armor, or they will keep working him until he is out of there and then they will strike. It may only be a run but that is all that they will need with Klimesh and their bullpen. Even if they get down they don't care, as they know they will strike eventually, and many times it is with 2 outs late in the game and suddenly they break out, and you think how the heck did that happen. This is one very scrappy team and fun to watch. That said this series will likely be a low scoring affair with both pitching staffs.

108- Is your son going to see some innings this weekend? Looking over the Trinity roster, they have quite a few So Cal players form some top-notch high school programs. It will be nice for them to play versus some other SO Cal kids on Chapman's roster this weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 02, 2012, 12:55:27 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 02, 2012, 11:34:30 AM
Trinity has been winning games by grinding out every at bat, and every opportunity, they will keep running, bunting, slashing, hit and running, and putting pressure on you. If that does not work then someone, and you never know who, will jack one. They are relentless. They will do the same thing with Rau, and will either find a crack in his armor, or they will keep working him until he is out of there and then they will strike. It may only be a run but that is all that they will need with Klimesh and their bullpen. Even if they get down they don't care, as they know they will strike eventually, and many times it is with 2 outs late in the game and suddenly they break out, and you think how the heck did that happen. This is one very scrappy team and fun to watch. That said this series will likely be a low scoring affair with both pitching staffs.

Chapman will throw Rauh 145 pitches if they need to, which I have given my opinion on before but this looks to be a big series, bigger for Chapman in my eyes.  I think whoever wins tonight takes 2 of 3.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 02, 2012, 12:56:53 PM
Chapman VS Trinity - LITTLE BALL STATS  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Chapman     Trinity
SB 6           SB 21
SF 4           SF 5
SH 5           SH 11
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 02, 2012, 12:59:26 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 02, 2012, 12:55:27 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 02, 2012, 11:34:30 AM
Trinity has been winning games by grinding out every at bat, and every opportunity, they will keep running, bunting, slashing, hit and running, and putting pressure on you. If that does not work then someone, and you never know who, will jack one. They are relentless. They will do the same thing with Rau, and will either find a crack in his armor, or they will keep working him until he is out of there and then they will strike. It may only be a run but that is all that they will need with Klimesh and their bullpen. Even if they get down they don't care, as they know they will strike eventually, and many times it is with 2 outs late in the game and suddenly they break out, and you think how the heck did that happen. This is one very scrappy team and fun to watch. That said this series will likely be a low scoring affair with both pitching staffs.

Chapman will throw Rauh 145 pitches if they need to, which I have given my opinion on before but this looks to be a big series, bigger for Chapman in my eyes.  I think whoever wins tonight takes 2 of 3.
I believe Chapman will treat this series like a playoff time. Like a double elimination regional.

Rauh throws Game 1 comes back and closes Game 2 or Game 3 if Chapman is up and game is close. He did this a few times last year. Pitch counts...forgetaboutit :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEvHzx-nal0&feature=related
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 03, 2012, 12:28:01 AM
Chapman wins game 1 .....17 to 4.  :o :o :o Never count Chapman out. Saturday is a new day.
http://trinitytigers.com/sports/bsb/2011-12/stats/bb14.htm

http://trinitytigers.com/sports/bsb/2011-12/releases/03-02-12_bb_chapman

Trinity's Klimesh does not throw in Game 1. Rauh only throws 1 inning since Chapman scored 13 in the 1st 2 innings and Rauh will most likely be back for either Game 2 or Game 3.

Chapman was able to keep their 1,2,3,4,5 pitchers available for Games 2 & 3.

Trinity had 3 errors Chapman 2.

Chapman outhits Trinity 9 hits to 6.

Chapman's catcher James has big day with 2 hits and 4 RBI's.

Rauh and Tachibana combined to throw 6.2 of shutout innings.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on March 03, 2012, 07:35:28 AM
Not throwing Klimesh signals to me that Trinity is hoping to just win one game in this series. I really wanted to see him face Rauh. Maybe today?!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BBFan62 on March 03, 2012, 09:00:57 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 03, 2012, 07:35:28 AM
Not throwing Klimesh signals to me that Trinity is hoping to just win one game in this series. I really wanted to see him face Rauh. Maybe today?!

I was at the game yesterday and will see today's game too before heading back to Chicago tonight. I was impressed by both teams, although I was disappointed in not seeing a Klimesh-Rauh matchup and Rauh for only one inning. A Chapman player told me Rauh most likely go Sunday.

For me, it was a treat seeing these two top level teams go at each other, plus I was able to meet 108stitches and talk with him for awhile. It's true that it's a small world. I told him my son (plays out East) played against Hall since they were 9 years old and through highschool and faced Klimesh in highschool too. Well, as it turns out a highschool teammate of 108's son plays with my son out East.
My only regret of this weekend is I won't be here for the Sunday game.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 03, 2012, 09:42:50 AM
I think Trinity's coach made a really poor decision by not starting Klimesh on Friday night.  I am sure many will not agree but it almost looks like a sign of little faith that your team is good enough to beat Rauh.  Rauh is legit, no doubt, but he has won a lot of very close games in his career and if Trinity is able to beat him they are in very good position to win the series.  Now they will have to face Raugh again and that is a tough thing to do.
As for game 1....The score is a little misleading in my eyes.  I didn't see the game but read the little blurb on TU's web site and starting your #3 in game 1 of a series is weak.  Trinity's "D" didnt help out one bit but that start by Fink by flat out terrible.
I hate to say it but I think Chapman sweeps this series.  No matter what a coach says after getting your head kicked in, you are still thinking about the night before.  I will probably have plenty of people think I am crazy but I honestly think Trinity set Chapman up for a lot of success and Chapman will play it's way straight back to the top of the West Region.

I will be the first one to come on here and admit I was wrong but please be gentle.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 03, 2012, 10:02:41 AM
You could be right. But lets not foget that Trinity has alot of confidence in Fink. If he keeps the game manageable and Rauh has to pitch most of the game its not a bad strategy. It really backfired though because Rauh could start today or Sunday and throw a complete game. Its a risk, and to be honest, I probably would have done the same thing. And I would have looked like an idiot too.  ;D

Im now predicting a Chapman sweep as well. While I think Klimesh and Lucero are very good pitchers, I dont think its anything Chapman hitters havent seen before.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BBFan62 on March 03, 2012, 10:12:00 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 03, 2012, 09:42:50 AM
I think Trinity's coach made a really poor decision by not starting Klimesh on Friday night.  I am sure many will not agree but it almost looks like a sign of little faith that your team is good enough to beat Rauh.  Rauh is legit, no doubt, but he has won a lot of very close games in his career and if Trinity is able to beat him they are in very good position to win the series.  Now they will have to face Raugh again and that is a tough thing to do.
As for game 1....The score is a little misleading in my eyes.  I didn't see the game but read the little blurb on TU's web site and starting your #3 in game 1 of a series is weak.  Trinity's "D" didnt help out one bit but that start by Fink by flat out terrible.
I hate to say it but I think Chapman sweeps this series.  No matter what a coach says after getting your head kicked in, you are still thinking about the night before.  I will probably have plenty of people think I am crazy but I honestly think Trinity set Chapman up for a lot of success and Chapman will play it's way straight back to the top of the West Region.

I will be the first one to come on here and admit I was wrong but please be gentle.

Fink might be #3 on Trinity, but he'd be a #1 on quite a few teams. I agree with you that he had a terrible game, but he impressed me overall with his arm.

What I liked about Chapman pulling Rauh is it shows that nobody is more important than the team and the coach is there to guide his team to 3 wins, not just let his top guy possibly cruise to an easy win. Watching Rauh, I felt he has a somewhat strange delivery, in the way he seems to snap his arm. However, the ball seems to explode out of his hand.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 03, 2012, 10:55:48 AM
Test, I have posted a couple times and it did not post. Strange. Hotel?

OK here it is...

Well now, that was ugly. Although the book has 3 errors there really were 5. Very un TU like. I think they only have 5-6 for the whole season. Flush it, new day, new game today.

I heard that the coach threw Fink as he was next in line to pitch and they are treating this as another series. Actually a good strategic move that backfired. It almost backfired on Chapman as TU got 4, had the bases loaded as was a jack or gapper away from making it a game. I talked to some Chapman parents that were worried about the same thing. Rau will likely go on Sunday.

Nice to meet BBFan, it is fun to meet people "in real" that share a love of college baseball.

Chapman is solid as is Trinity. TU will flush it and come out strong today, this team has a pretty level head.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 03, 2012, 11:41:35 AM
In defense to Trinity, they always do weird things with their pitching staff. I remember when we played them when I was playing we always faced their #1 and #2 on Tuesday doubleheaders. Then in a conference weekend those guys didnt always throw. It may not even be that they were conceding they couldnt beat Rauh. This could have been planned no matter who they played.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 03, 2012, 11:50:11 AM
Quote from: dp643 on March 03, 2012, 11:41:35 AM
In defense to Trinity, they always do weird things with their pitching staff. I remember when we played them when I was playing we always faced their #1 and #2 on Tuesday doubleheaders. Then in a conference weekend those guys didnt always throw. It may not even be that they were conceding they couldnt beat Rauh. This could have been planned no matter who they played.

Absolutely agree.  After paying attention for the past few years it does seem that Trinity is a rather "different" team when it comes to stuff like this.  I, on the other hand, am a very firm believer that if your #1 is able to start, you start him.  Saying Fink was "next in line" doesn't really do it for me, this isn't a rec league where everyone has to play.

Oh well, I will just be a casual observer now since my phone didn't ring and nobody asked for my advice on how to set up the staff this weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 03, 2012, 12:05:40 PM
I agree. I would always have my staff set for 1-2-3 on the weekend. But that isnt how they always roll, and it may have nothing to do with Rauh and Chapman is all I was stating.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on March 03, 2012, 12:09:01 PM
Based on everything I know about TU baseball and Coach Scannell, he started Fink because he believed in him, believed they would win with him, and he wanted to put Fink in a situation to succeed.
Coach does that all the time, and while it seems out of the box, his believing and challenging a player/pitcher, more often than not, is rewarded by a very, very good performance.
Since I was not there, I can only assume Fink got too amped. With that, he was still out of the inning with one run, except for the error.  17 runs on 9 hits....nope, that does not get it done.
No excuses, though because Coach Scannell does not allow that.
A couple of times it has been mentioned that this series is more than Rauh/Klimesh.  Lucero for Trinity is very, very good and has pitched well in big games.
To me, starting Fink last night showed Coach Scannell felt they could win all 3 and have Lucero and Klimesh to do it.
It didn't work out...but that is baseball.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 03, 2012, 12:22:48 PM
I thought the TU basketball team would have a tougher time hanging in last night than the baseball team, but Chapman put the lie to that thought.  Great time to break out the bats (unless you are a Trinity fan) so will have to hope for better the next two games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 03, 2012, 12:28:34 PM
Quote from: infielddad on March 03, 2012, 12:09:01 PM
Based on everything I know about TU baseball and Coach Scannell, he started Fink because he believed in him, believed they would win with him, and he wanted to put Fink in a situation to succeed.
Coach does that all the time, and while it seems out of the box, his believing and challenging a player/pitcher, more often than not, is rewarded by a very, very good performance.
Since I was not there, I can only assume Fink got too amped. With that, he was still out of the inning with one run, except for the error.  17 runs on 9 hits....nope, that does not get it done.
No excuses, though because Coach Scannell does not allow that.
A couple of times it has been mentioned that this series is more than Rauh/Klimesh.  Lucero for Trinity is very, very good and has pitched well in big games.
To me, starting Fink last night showed Coach Scannell felt they could win all 3 and have Lucero and Klimesh to do it.
It didn't work out...but that is baseball.

Very good point.  I am not trying to say Trinity is bad or anything negative, just my opinion is that is was a risky move.  I still fully expect them to be in Oregon in May and probably battling on the last day.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on March 03, 2012, 12:38:26 PM
Jack,
I know you didn't mean anything critical or negative.
You know your baseball and looked at the starting pitcher in very logical way.
The best example I know of Coach Scannell and outside the box was the Championship game of the 2004 West Regional in Orange.
Amongst the parents, we were wondering who would pitch because the losers bracket route took its toll.
When we arrived, the starting pitcher wasn't anyone on any list. He was a freshman who had less than 10 innings all year and who didn't pitch in the SCACs.
He took TU into the 5th or 6th against Scott Hyde and left giving up only 2 run providing a chance for a W.
While I don't know for sure, my guess is Coach had the same attitude and confidence when the umpire called "play ball" last night.
In my view, this could put a bit more pressure on Lucero and Klimesh and Coach doesn't mind that, either.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 03, 2012, 05:27:45 PM
Nice job by Klimesh. Trinity wins 3-2. Trinity didnt execute bunts and some situations like I saw them do against UMHB, but nonetheless still got the win. Big two out, 2 strike 2 run home run by Will Donnan in the Bottom of the 8th. Looks like Rauh vs Lucero tomorrow to take the series. Get your popcorn ready!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 03, 2012, 05:42:25 PM
I will now take back half of what I said....

Great job by Trinity today coming back after getting beat like they did.  Wish I could watch game 3.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 03, 2012, 06:25:51 PM
This was one of those games that you keep telling yourself that they better get an insurance run sometime, otherwise it is going to come back and bite you and it did. Klimesh did not have his best stuff and was a bit wild, but was in control for most of the game - up 1-0 from the second, but TU could not string two hits together and nor did they do a good job in executing its offense, and sure enough Chapman came back in the top of the 8th and tied it 1-1. A two run HR by Will Donan put them up 3-1 and Chapman came back and loaded the bases with no outs in the 9th. Michael Bentz came in and got a K, a flair behind 1st was caught and by second basemen Kevin Clements who turned and threw to third instead of home and got the runner out on a bobbled tag to end the game. Bentz is becoming a very good go to guy in the late innings. Got to give both teams credit for a hard fought battle.

I would say that Chapman is the best team I have seen in controlling base runners, they do a good job in particular of holding guys close to second and it saved them a couple of runs during the game, picking off one guy and holding another to one base on a single. These are two solid teams and you can tell they are both well coached.

I have no idea on which way it will go tomorrow, but I do know it will be a good one.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 04, 2012, 03:29:21 PM
What a game this is!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 04, 2012, 03:41:24 PM
So much for the pitching theory. Trinity takes 2 of 3 from Chapman.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on March 04, 2012, 04:17:07 PM
Like I said about Coach Scannell......
Two outs in the bottom 10 and he pinch hits with a kid who is 0-6 this year.
Single starts the rally and gets the W.
Coach knows his players and proves it again today.
What a series to come back from Friday night's bashing.
This is a huge confidence builder for Trinity...and should be the same for Chapman, to be honest.
They competed and played hard against a very good 1-9 and very good pitching.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 04, 2012, 04:47:11 PM
I know Chapman is going to need to really pick it up to have a Pool C shot, but you kind of got the feeling watching this series that this probably wont be the last time these two teams see each other.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 04, 2012, 05:20:41 PM
And Rauh still hasn't lost a game.   :o

Very impressed with Chapman this weekend, looking much more like the team we all know they can be.   Good luck the rest of the way.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bmo on March 04, 2012, 05:22:10 PM
Wasn't Scannell tossed in the first inning or was that just a warning.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 04, 2012, 06:16:25 PM
Just got back. Great game. Tough battle the whole way, back and forth - two great teams going at it. Scannell was tossed the first inning going after yet another crappy umpire that gave CU a run. I am surprised they do not do a better job of selecting umpires, but I guess you get what you can get. I am sure after Friday night Scannell was fed up with guys being lazy and not getting down and calling strikes at the knees. It was a clear looking K, and the ump just stood there, next batter HBP that walked in a run. That's just baseball however since both teams had the same guy(s). Ugh...

JC Bunch called the squeeze to tie it up, perfect call. The rest I don't know - but I my wife said she thought she saw Scannell in the trees in the outfield....(just kidding)

Chapman should not feel bad about the two close losses. They were well played games on their part, (gone is are the E's for the most part) and I know the TU players have a lot of respect for that team. It is difficult for me to be unbiased but IMO Trinity is a deeper team, with stronger pitching. Michael Bentz as I posted earlier will be huge for this team in late innings. He has "the look" and the pitches of a closer. He will be very tough to score against late in a game.

Rauh is everything that has been written about him, but he is no Klimesh IMO. Klimesh has MLB stuff, Rauh might but he lives on his slider, where Klimesh will come at you with a ++ fastball and a + Slider. If TU sees Rauh again they will get to him quicker IMO. CU is a great team and I think they will fight through a difficult schedule to get to the tournament so this likely will happen.

Trinity could well run the table the rest of the way in to the SCAC tournament. Someone may beat them, but I don't see anyone on their schedule in their class.


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BBFan62 on March 04, 2012, 08:30:43 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 04, 2012, 06:16:25 PM
Just got back. Great game. Tough battle the whole way, back and forth - two great teams going at it. Scannell was tossed the first inning going after yet another crappy umpire that gave CU a run. I am surprised they do not do a better job of selecting umpires, but I guess you get what you can get. I am sure after Friday night Scannell was fed up with guys being lazy and not getting down and calling strikes at the knees. It was a clear looking K, and the ump just stood there, next batter HBP that walked in a run. That's just baseball however since both teams had the same guy(s). Ugh...

JC Bunch called the squeeze to tie it up, perfect call. The rest I don't know - but I my wife said she thought she saw Scannell in the trees in the outfield....(just kidding)

Chapman should not feel bad about the two close losses. They were well played games on their part, (gone is are the E's for the most part) and I know the TU players have a lot of respect for that team. It is difficult for me to be unbiased but IMO Trinity is a deeper team, with stronger pitching. Michael Bentz as I posted earlier will be huge for this team in late innings. He has "the look" and the pitches of a closer. He will be very tough to score against late in a game.

Rauh is everything that has been written about him, but he is no Klimesh IMO. Klimesh has MLB stuff, Rauh might but he lives on his slider, where Klimesh will come at you with a ++ fastball and a + Slider. If TU sees Rauh again they will get to him quicker IMO. CU is a great team and I think they will fight through a difficult schedule to get to the tournament so this likely will happen.

Trinity could well run the table the rest of the way in to the SCAC tournament. Someone may beat them, but I don't see anyone on their schedule in their class.

Let me, as a "third party observer" (because my son goes out East) state that I am very glad I was able to work it out so that I attended the Friday & Saturday games (and watched today on the video feed). I agree TU is the better team and Klemish the better pitcher overall. I've always wanted to see Rauh pitch.  Klemish is way above what he was in highschool and it shows just how hard he worked to get where he is.

Both teams are very talented, at all positions. Nice to see each at bat and also the defense. Too bad the officiating was not up to par with the quality of the teams. Hats off to both teams; tanks for the enjoyment.

A special shout out to 108stitches, a pleasure to meet you and talk BB. Too bad Nick didn't follow LeSuer - we sure could use him!

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 04, 2012, 09:54:41 PM
I will officially refrain from any further predictions ;D

Great job by Trinity coming back after Friday's debacle. 

No matter what some say, Chapman is getting really close to being in serious trouble.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on March 04, 2012, 10:06:21 PM
Jack,
We know Pool C is like walking a tight rope.
In the West Region, it can be even more of a white knuckle.
What I meant to say is Chapman knows they have a very big job for the next 25 plus games.
They have not left much, if any,  margin for error in Pool C.
To me, from this weekend, it looks like their pitching can get them there.
Hitting and defense...those need to come together quickly.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 04, 2012, 11:09:05 PM
Quote from: infielddad on March 04, 2012, 10:06:21 PM
Jack,
We know Pool C is like walking a tight rope.
In the West Region, it can be even more of a white knuckle.
What I meant to say is Chapman knows they have a very big job for the next 25 plus games.
They have not left much, if any,  margin for error in Pool C.
To me, from this weekend, it looks like their pitching can get them there.
Hitting and defense...those need to come together quickly.

Absolutely agree 100%.  Wasn't pointing out anyone in particular by saying "no matter what some say" it was meant as many will not understand the situation Chapman is in now.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on March 04, 2012, 11:22:05 PM
Similarly, while Trinity  had a nice weekend, they need to peak near the mid/end of April.
While these games were great, on a Regional and National view, both teams need to get better, play better, win every step of the way.
For Trinity, they need to develop the type of depth on the mound that will carry them in the SCAC's and beyond and certainly need to show they will hit better against quality pitching, where that pitching is breaking ball dominant.
For the first time, maybe since Coach Scannell has been there, I think they have depth of high quality pitching.  Klimesh and Lucero can likely get them to the SCAC's.  They need more than those two to win the SCAC's.
The worst for Chapman is if TU does not win the SCAC's and they both are pool C's, I would think???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 05, 2012, 11:14:57 AM
I think that Chapman is now in the groove and see them beating the teams they need to beat and taking  2 of 3 from the tough teams remaining on their schedule. If they do this they will likely be back in the Regionals. That is one solid team - with their one weakness being the lack of bullpen depth. The TU series should just make them better (and a little bit tougher) going forward. As Jack pointed out they do not have much margin of error going the rest of the way in.

As far as infieldads point on TU's pitching depth, I don't see that as being a problem. There are plenty of arms on this squad and they will work them in. They have already had them in against Centenary, and they will likely get in a couple more midweek games, or in blowout situations. As BBFan saw even after they were blown out on Friday night they kept bringing out hard thrower after hard thrower, including a very promising freshmen that will likely get a few more starts before the SCAC tournament. The injury to Hall hurts, (shoulder) but he should be back by the SCAC tournament, and Trinity has guys already prepared to step in so this should make them even deeper come tournament time.

For me they need to tighten up their mental play a bit and execute better on the offensive side. I saw too many times where they did not execute and made mistakes they can not afford to make come tournament time. I think they should learn a thing or two from Chapman on their holding of runners. If they do this then they will really separate themselves from the competition.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 05, 2012, 02:23:05 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 05, 2012, 11:14:57 AM
I think that Chapman is now in the groove and see them beating the teams they need to beat and taking  2 of 3 from the tough teams remaining on their schedule. If they do this they will likely be back in the Regionals. That is one solid team - with their one weakness being the lack of bullpen depth. The TU series should just make them better (and a little bit tougher) going forward. As Jack pointed out they do not have much margin of error going the rest of the way in.

As far as infieldads point on TU's pitching depth, I don't see that as being a problem. There are plenty of arms on this squad and they will work them in. They have already had them in against Centenary, and they will likely get in a couple more midweek games, or in blowout situations. As BBFan saw even after they were blown out on Friday night they kept bringing out hard thrower after hard thrower, including a very promising freshmen that will likely get a few more starts before the SCAC tournament. The injury to Hall hurts, (shoulder) but he should be back by the SCAC tournament, and Trinity has guys already prepared to step in so this should make them even deeper come tournament time.

For me they need to tighten up their mental play a bit and execute better on the offensive side. I saw too many times where they did not execute and made mistakes they can not afford to make come tournament time. I think they should learn a thing or two from Chapman on their holding of runners. If they do this then they will really separate themselves from the competition.

Chapman showed they can compete with teams with great pitching. Chapman starting pitching did an outstanding job. Defense still needs some work. Timely hits could have won 2 more games this last weekend. I expect Trinity to be in the West Regionals and with that pitching they have a shot at winning it.

Chapman has the talent to make it back to the Regionals but they have put themselves in difficult spot. They really need win in region games if they expect to get back as a Pool C team. But need to score runs to win games, play defense and need better relief pitching to hold the leads.

Chapman's top 4 pitchers ERA   ;D ;D
Rauh 1.12  24 IP
Levitt 1.80 15 IP
McGee 2.05 30.2 IP
Osaki 2.89 9.1
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 05, 2012, 06:27:59 PM
Top Teams in West 3-5-2012

SCAC
Trinity(14-2)
UDallas(11-4)

SCIAC
Cal Lu(11-4)
La Verne(11-5)

ASC
Concordia-Texas(14-4)
Texas-Tyler(12-3)

NWC
Linfield(7-3)
Pacific Lutheran(7-5)

Last year only 6 teams were in West Regional.

Chapman has games with Linfield, Pac Lu, Cal Lu and La Verne. If they want to make to the regionals they know what they must do now to make it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 11, 2012, 09:35:04 AM
I think it's time for Chapman to start getting nervous.  I am fully aware that last night's game aainst Rutgers is a non-region game but they played their normal lineup and threw their #1.  Chapman is hitting .261 as a team and does not have a regular starter hitting over .300, in fact only 1 player is hitting over .300 and that is in 9 ab's.  Something has to give.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 11, 2012, 11:49:25 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 11, 2012, 09:35:04 AM
I think it's time for Chapman to start getting nervous.  I am fully aware that last night's game aainst Rutgers is a non-region game but they played their normal lineup and threw their #1.  Chapman is hitting .261 as a team and does not have a regular starter hitting over .300, in fact only 1 player is hitting over .300 and that is in 9 ab's.  Something has to give.
http://www.chapmanathletics.com/sports/bsb/2011-12/files/teamcume.htm
I  believe Chapman is in huge trouble.

They can not score enough runs to get the wins for their outstanding starting pitching. You can have great starting pitching but if you cant score runs your not going to win or if you can not hold onto to a lead then your going to lose alot of games. 5 losses by 2 runs or less.  2 shutouts. Scoring 0, 1, 2 and 3 runs will not win games. Unearned runs and lack of timely hitting is not a recipe for success.

Top 4 pitchers ERA's range from 1.58 to 2.49 but their next 5 pitchers ERA range from 7.20 to 21.60

Not only is nobody not hitting .300 team along with low OB% .339, low slg% .345, low fielding % .957

Several of their losses are to teams with losing records that hurts their SOS.
Rutgers(3-5)
Whittier(9-10)
George Fox(7-10)

Chapman does have the talent and coaching to still turn things around. I have seen it before and believe they still have time to do it but they got to stop the bleeding soon.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 11, 2012, 01:21:34 PM
I think it is safe to say that Chapman, while a good team, is not one of the elite this year. They have the opportunity to earn their way back into the tournament, but right now they should be considered one of the bubble teams. Their starting pitching is good, but they do not have the offensive firepower of the past.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 11, 2012, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 11, 2012, 01:21:34 PM
I think it is safe to say that Chapman, while a good team, is not one of the elite this year. They have the opportunity to earn their way back into the tournament, but right now they should be considered one of the bubble teams. Their starting pitching is good, but they do not have the offensive firepower of the past.
Agreed and Chapman posts will move to SCIAC since at this time they are not one of the top teams in the West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 12, 2012, 11:15:21 AM
TOP TEAMS IN THE WEST March 12, 2012

1) Trinity(17-3) SCAC
2) Texas-Tyler(12-3) ASC
3) Concordia-Texas(16-4) ASC
4) Pacific Lutheran(10-5) NWC
5) Linfield(9-4) NWC
6) La Verne(13-6) SCIAC
7) Cal Lutheran(12-6) SCIAC
8) Hendrix(11-6) SCAC
9) Occidental(14-7) SCIAC
10)  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Can you believe Chapman is not even in the top 10 in the West 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 12, 2012, 12:35:44 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 12, 2012, 11:15:21 AM
TOP TEAMS IN THE WEST March 12, 2012

1) Trinity(17-3) SCAC
2) Texas-Tyler(12-3) ASC
3) Concordia-Texas(16-4) ASC
4) Pacific Lutheran(10-5) NWC
5) Linfield(9-4) NWC
6) La Verne(13-6) SCIAC
7) Cal Lutheran(12-6) SCIAC
8) Hendrix(11-6) SCAC
9) Occidental(14-7) SCIAC
10)  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Can you believe Chapman is not even in the top 10 in the West

So who *do* you have at #10, Crash?  "Not Chapman" isn't much help.   ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 12, 2012, 12:49:47 PM
Some ideas:

While Centenary can't officially be ranked as a D3, you could give them some "Crash love".

Redlands took 2/3 from CLU over the weekend.

Louisiana College has lost mostly to highly ranked teams. They might be a fit. Take a look at their schedule. Quietly good. 


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 12, 2012, 07:08:11 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 12, 2012, 12:35:44 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 12, 2012, 11:15:21 AM
TOP TEAMS IN THE WEST March 12, 2012

1) Trinity(17-3) SCAC
2) Texas-Tyler(12-3) ASC
3) Concordia-Texas(16-4) ASC
4) Pacific Lutheran(10-5) NWC
5) Linfield(9-4) NWC
6) La Verne(13-6) SCIAC
7) Cal Lutheran(12-6) SCIAC
8) Hendrix(11-6) SCAC
9) Occidental(14-7) SCIAC
10)  Centenary(10-4)

So who *do* you have at #10, Crash?  "Not Chapman" isn't much help.   ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 12, 2012, 08:42:05 PM
Way to go Crash! You will make some kids happy they are now on the Crash top 10!!! Pretty elite company if I don't say so myself.

Their number one (Cole Thompson) does a weekly blog and I know they are a bit saddened that they don't get any press in the step down from D1, so I am sure he will be happy to be on someone's top 10. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on March 12, 2012, 09:21:16 PM
Concordia and Trinity should be odds on favorite at the end. Both are playing very good ball right now. Concordia just swept Howard Payne to go 17-4 on the year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 13, 2012, 01:52:15 PM
2012 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25 week 3
http://www.d3baseball.com/top25/2012/2012week-3
Through games of Sunday, March 11
#    School (1st votes)    Rec    Pts    Prev.
1    Marietta (20)    4-1    605    1
2    Kean (3)    8-2    579    2
3    Trinity (Texas) (1)    17-3    529    4
4    Christopher Newport    13-3    526    3
5    UW-Stevens Point    2-0    499    7
6    Rowan (1)    9-0    426    13
7    Piedmont    13-4    424    10
8    Salisbury    11-3    410    9
9    Eastern Connecticut    4-1    402    8
10    Linfield    9-4    372    5
11    UW-Whitewater    2-2    360    6
12    Adrian    6-1    355    11
13    Keystone    5-1    320    14
14    Carthage    0-0    254    15
15    Concordia (Texas)    16-4    253    18
16    Texas-Tyler    14-4    223    19
17    Wheaton (Mass.)    1-1    204    16
18    Western New England    2-1    149    17
19    Thomas More    5-1    141    22
20    Shenandoah    11-5    139    23
21    Misericordia    11-1    138    -
22    Cortland State    7-4    137    24
23    St. Thomas    4-2    107    25
24    Heidelberg    5-4    104    12
25    Bridgewater (Va.)    14-4    58    -


Dropped Out: No. 21 Chapman, No. 20 Alvernia.

Also receiving votes: Illinois Wesleyan 52, Alvernia 47, DePauw 44, Concordia (Ill.) 35, Ramapo 32, Augustana 23, Tufts 22, North Park 19, Huntingdon 19, Cal Lutheran 17, Wittenberg 14, Chapman 11, Neumann 11, St. John Fisher 11, Aurora 10, UW-Oshkosh 7, Ithaca 6, Birmingham-Southern 5, Washington U. 5, Mount Union 5, La Verne 4, St. Scholastica 4, Coe 3, Dubuque 2, Swarthmore 1, Otterbein 1, Ohio Wesleyan 1.

Not sure how some teams get even a single vote sometimes based upon how they have played and their records.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 18, 2012, 05:32:24 PM
Concordia (TX) dropped a pair to Hardin-Simmons on Saturday, 1-2 and 4-5.   HSU improved to 9-9 with the two wins.   Concordia, which needed a walkoff homer to beat HSU in game one of the series, drops to 18-6.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 20, 2012, 01:10:02 AM
Monday March 19, 2012

Who has the most wins in the West
Trinity-Texas(19-3)
Concordia-Texas(18-6)
Texas-Tyler(16-6)
Hendrix(14-6)
La Verne(14-8)
Texas-Dallas(14-9)
Occidental(14-9)

Who has the least losses in the West
Trinity-Texas(19-3)
Linfield College(12-4)
Centenary(12-5)
Concordia-Texas(18-6)
Texas-Tyler(16-6)
Whitworth(11-6-1)
Hendrix(14-6)

Who is leading their Conference
SCIAC La Verne(9-3) & Occidental(9-3) 
NWC Whitworth(5-1)
SCAC-West Trinity(8-0)
ASC-West McMurry(6-0)
ASC-East Texas-Dallas(5-1)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 20, 2012, 03:40:34 AM
2012 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25 week 4
Through games of Sunday, March 18

# School (1st votes) Rec Pts Prev.
1 Trinity (Texas) (16) 19-3 595 3  
2 Marietta (7) 9-3 583 1
3 Kean (1) 10-3 577 2
4 Christopher Newport 16-4 541 4
5 Piedmont 15-5 492 7
6 UW-Stevens Point 4-1 462 5
7 Salisbury (1) 15-3 452 8
8 Linfield 12-4 402 10  
9 Eastern Connecticut 6-2 338 9
10 Wheaton (Mass.) 7-1 324 17
11 Adrian 7-2 322 12
12 Rowan 10-3 311 6
13 Carthage 1-0 288 14
14 Keystone 7-3 233 13
15 UW-Whitewater 2-2 230 11
16 Cortland State 11-4 221 22
17 Shenandoah 15-5 210 20
18 Thomas More 8-2 198 19
19 St. Thomas 8-3 173 23
20 Misericordia 13-2 159 21
21 Concordia (Texas) 18-6 156 15
22 Texas-Tyler 16-6 141 16
 
23 Western New England 4-2 106 18
24 Ramapo 7-0 75 -
25 Neumann 12-3 60 -



Dropped Out: No. 24 Heidelberg, No. 25 Bridgewater (Va.).

Also receiving votes: Tufts 58, Augustana 56, Illinois Wesleyan 54, Bridgewater (Va.) 36, DePauw 32, St. Joseph's (Maine) 23, Otterbein 18, Alvernia 17, Concordia (Ill.) 17, North Park 16, Rhodes 16, Aurora 16, Spalding 14, Wittenberg 12, Wheaton (Ill.) 12, Washington College 12, William Paterson 10, SUNY-Old Westbury 10, St. John Fisher 8, Heidelberg 6, Westminster (Pa.) 6, Muhlenberg 5, Huntingdon 5, Baldwin-Wallace 5, Franklin 4, Lynchburg 3, Emory 2, Ohio Wesleyan 1, Birmingham-Southern 1, Texas-Dallas 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 20, 2012, 03:42:53 AM
Not a single SCIAC team received a single vote in the top 55 teams that received votes in the D3 Top 25 poll this week. ??? ???

The other poll the ABCA coaches poll La Verne, Cal Lu and Claremont received votes but no Occidental  ???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 22, 2012, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 20, 2012, 03:42:53 AM
Not a single SCIAC team received a single vote in the top 55 teams that received votes in the D3 Top 25 poll this week. ??? ???

The other poll the ABCA coaches poll La Verne, Cal Lu and Claremont received votes but no Occidental  ???

P-P beating Kean (and their pitcher who hadn't allowed a run in three previous starts) should help the conference get a little visibility.  :-)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Piobark on March 25, 2012, 12:10:41 PM
About time for Whitworth to get a little attention as I pointed out 8 pages ago?

Nice win over Linfield yesterday, previously 2 wins over Oxy and two against PLU.

Their 12-7-1 record is a little misleading as three of the losses are against non D3 schools.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 25, 2012, 12:42:58 PM
Quote from: Piobark on March 25, 2012, 12:10:41 PM
About time for Whitworth to get a little attention as I pointed out 8 pages ago?

Nice win over Linfield yesterday, previously 2 wins over Oxy and two against PLU.

Their 12-7-1 record is a little misleading as three of the losses are against non D3 schools.

Not a chance.  If you look deeper into their schedule you will see how poor it really is.  The 12-4 West Region record is nice but here is a little breakdown.

Opponents (only counting D-III) are a combined 60-72-2 for a .448 winning %
6 of their 12 wins are against Lewis & Clark and Puget Sound who are a combine 6-38-1 for a whopping .133 winning %

Not trying to be a jerk but just looking at wins/losses isn't going to give the real picture.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2012, 05:02:22 PM
Carefull Jack someone is going to tell you that the losing % is because they lost to Whitworth.  :o

Agree with you, but the program is going in the right direction.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 25, 2012, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2012, 05:02:22 PM
Carefull Jack someone is going to tell you that the losing % is because they lost to Whitworth.  :o

Agree with you, but the program is going in the right direction.

Haha, no joke.  Agreed 100% that the program is headed in the right direction.  They are currently leading Linfield in the 8th of the rubber-game of that series.  That would be a huge series win for them.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 25, 2012, 05:38:18 PM
And the third game is now a final.  Huge series win for Whitworth.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2012, 05:40:11 PM
Trinity swept UofDallas over the weekend. Pretty much dominated the series; even though game two's score was close. (9-8) They went with a promising Freshmen in game two, who was in control up 8-1, started to get a little shaky to make it 8-3. The coach brought in some of the bullpen that had not seen too much action and a couple of walks, 2 hits and 2 balls thrown over the first basemen's head and you have a tied game. The book shows 3 errors but 2 were on one pitcher that I think cost them 4 runs.

Lucero was in control on Sunday, I think it he was up 7-1 through 6 giving up one HR (foul ball according to some, but whatever) and a miss played ball by the SS ended up costing the Tigers 3 or 4 runs toward the back end of the game. They cruised on in with a 7-5 victory. Having a strong closer is huge as Michael Bentz came in and shut down the games on Sat and Sunday.

Their defense is as solid as ever and they are being much more disciplined at the plate. He has been running out different lineups so he has a pretty good idea what he has offensively and defensively and his bench. He is going to have to keep going to his pen to a figure out who he can trust prior to the Regionals if they want to make a run in the tournament.

You can really see how an error or two can really make a huge difference in the game now with the BBCOR bats. A costly error can end up costing a team 2-3 runs and you just can't make those runs up easily anymore.

They did not do anything IMO to take them out of the number 1 slot, but I have not looked at any of the other results from the weekend. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Piobark on March 25, 2012, 07:18:57 PM
First, let me point out my user name - Piobark - my son is a pioneer e.g. L&C. so no ax to grind here (other than beating Willamette today which was sweet).

Secondly - OK - now Whitworth has taken a series from Oxy (at Oxy) - who leads the SCAIC, from #8 Linfield (at Linfield) and from PLU at home.

Still no love?  :o

I guess the NWC isn't going to be getting any votes this week along with the SCAIC - cause I sure don't see how anyone can vote for Linfield and not throw a 10th place vote towards Whitworth.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2012, 08:05:31 PM
Oxy is 14-12, PLU is 14-7, Linfield is 13-6.

They have beaten some decent teams, but no real powerhouses, and overall their schedule is somewhat weak. Oxy is on top of what is becoming a mediocre SCIAC bunch. I think the jury is still out on them. Taking 2 of 3 from Linfield this weekend is a plus

OK so they can get a little love.... :-* but I think they will have to consistently beat some better teams before they get much move love.  ;) I would imagine they will get some top 25 votes next week. I am not sure what their schedule is going forward, but I don't think it is that tough. I think the jury is still out on them.

Do they play a conference tournament?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2012, 09:44:17 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2012, 08:05:31 PM
Oxy is 14-12, PLU is 14-7, Linfield is 13-6.

They have beaten some decent teams, but no real powerhouses, and overall their schedule is somewhat weak. Oxy is on top of what is becoming a mediocre SCIAC bunch. I think the jury is still out on them. Taking 2 of 3 from Linfield this weekend is a plus

OK so they can get a little love.... :-* but I think they will have to consistently beat some better teams before they get much move love.  ;) I would imagine they will get some top 25 votes next week. I am not sure what their schedule is going forward, but I don't think it is that tough. I think the jury is still out on them.

Do they play a conference tournament?
Yes.

Wait for the Regional Rankings in about 3 weeks.  Let's see how they do in the Regional Rankings.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on March 25, 2012, 10:11:39 PM
Although the SCIAC has a softball tourney at the end of the season, to the best of my knowledge they have not held a post season tourney for baseball in the past, and I find no reference to one this year on the SCIAC Conference web site.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Piobark on March 25, 2012, 10:13:42 PM
NWC doesn't have a post season tourney... I'm not trying to suggest these guys are headed off to the World Series - just that they deserve recognition. They won't play anyone of any note from here on in...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2012, 10:43:48 PM
I think if they keep playing the way they are they will. Congrats to them for the start on their year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 26, 2012, 09:20:53 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2012, 05:40:11 PM
Trinity  ... did not do anything IMO to take them out of the number 1 slot, but I have not looked at any of the other results from the weekend.

#1 Trinity 3-0
W/W/W UDallas 9-1, 9-8, 7-5

#2 Marietta 1-0
W Montclair State 5-0

#3 Kean 3-1
L @ Pomona-Pitzer 2-4
W @ Chapman 9-4
W @ Cal Lutheran 4-3
W @ La Verne 16-7

#4 CNU 3-0
W Tufts (RV, "26th") 9-4
W NC Wesleyan 11-4, 10-2

#5 Piedmont 3-1
W Centre 12-5
W/W/L Covenant 3-2, 15-6, 8-13

#6 UWSP 3-2
W @ Fontbonne 14-3
W @ Ramapo (24th) 5-2
L @ St Olaf 2-3
W St Olaf 3-2 (not a typo)
L W&J 2-5

#7 Salisbury 2-0
W/W St Mary's (MD) 7-1, 8-7

#8 Linfield 1-2
W/L/L Whitworth 15-3, 2-8, 2-4

#9 E Connecticut 3-1
W Luther 13-1
W @Carleton  7-1
W Carthage (13th) 7-6
L @Hamline 8-14

#10 Wheaton 6-0
W Suffolk 12-6
W Endicott 8-7
W @ Coast Guard 2-1
W/W Coast Guard 3-0, 7-5
W @ Westfield State 8-3

None of the teams Wheaton played are over .500, but 6Ws in a week is pretty impressive.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 26, 2012, 02:57:29 PM
Quote from: dahlby on March 25, 2012, 10:11:39 PM
Although the SCIAC has a softball tourney at the end of the season, to the best of my knowledge they have not held a post season tourney for baseball in the past, and I find no reference to one this year on the SCIAC Conference web site.
Which conferences in the West have a Conference Tourney to determine their Pool A team for the Regionals

ASC - Yes
SCAC - Yes
SCIAC - NO
NWC - NO
Independents - No (Prior to 2012)

I know things may change in 2012 but when was the last time the SCAC or the ASC send a team to the World Series? Do they run out of gas with both their conference tourney and then the regionals?

Chapman, George Fox, Linfield all did not play in end of year conference tourneys.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 26, 2012, 03:04:08 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 26, 2012, 09:20:53 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2012, 05:40:11 PM
Trinity  ... did not do anything IMO to take them out of the number 1 slot, but I have not looked at any of the other results from the weekend.

#1 Trinity 3-0
W/W/W UDallas 9-1, 9-8, 7-5

#2 Marietta 1-0
W Montclair State 5-0

#3 Kean 3-1
L @ Pomona-Pitzer 2-4
W @ Chapman 9-4
W @ Cal Lutheran 4-3
W @ La Verne 16-7

#4 CNU 3-0
W Tufts (RV, "26th") 9-4
W NC Wesleyan 11-4, 10-2

#5 Piedmont 3-1
W Centre 12-5
W/W/L Covenant 3-2, 15-6, 8-13

#6 UWSP 3-2
W @ Fontbonne 14-3
W @ Ramapo (24th) 5-2
L @ St Olaf 2-3
W St Olaf 3-2 (not a typo)
L W&J 2-5

#7 Salisbury 2-0
W/W St Mary's (MD) 7-1, 8-7

#8 Linfield 1-2
W/L/L Whitworth 15-3, 2-8, 2-4

#9 E Connecticut 3-1
W Luther 13-1
W @Carleton  7-1
W Carthage (13th) 7-6
L @Hamline 8-14

#10 Wheaton 6-0
W Suffolk 12-6
W Endicott 8-7
W @ Coast Guard 2-1
W/W Coast Guard 3-0, 7-5
W @ Westfield State 8-3

None of the teams Wheaton played are over .500, but 6Ws in a week is pretty impressive.

In my opinion teams that lose should drop. Teams that win should rise. 2 or more losses should drop alot.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 26, 2012, 03:34:47 PM
Crash I don't really know the reason. I do know that Coach Scannell has said the 3 week layoff from their conf tournament to the Regionals has been a contributing factor. He also said that this was not an excuse. (which I would expect from him) I have not seen any of those teams so I don't really know. I do know that they are not burned out, and in fact I personally would prefer to take a team straight out of a tough conference tournament, with say 5 day break so your pitchers are all rested up ready to go, and head into a tough Regional. I think it is problematic to stay sharp with that kind of layoff, no matter what you do.

Everyone knows there is not a national seeding so this, I think, is a huge factor for the Texas teams. No matter it is what it is.

I agree with you on W/L as far as rankings, but winning 3 of 4 like Kean did against decent teams is at least a push IMO
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2012, 06:57:02 PM
The ASC hasn't been to Wisconsin since 2002 because of Chapman.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 26, 2012, 07:16:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2012, 06:57:02 PM
The ASC hasn't been to Wisconsin since 2002 because of Chapman.
In 2012 I see either a ASC or SCAC team getting to Appleton.

Trinity-TX or Concordia-TX are my early favorites BUT there is alot of baseball to play and who knows who will end up in the West Regional in 2012. BBCOR bats favor teams with strong deep pitching and great fielding teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2012, 10:28:48 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 26, 2012, 07:16:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2012, 06:57:02 PM
The ASC hasn't been to Wisconsin since 2002 because of Chapman.
In 2012 I see either a ASC or SCAC team getting to Appleton.

Trinity-TX or Concordia-TX are my early favorites BUT there is alot of baseball to play and who knows who will end up in the West Regional in 2012. BBCOR bats favor teams with strong deep pitching and great fielding teams.
Pitching and defense...

I love a fast, low-scoring, defense ball game!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 27, 2012, 01:10:05 AM
From D3baseball Top 25
Games of Sunday, March 25

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.

1   Trinity (Texas) (17)   22-3   604   1
15   Linfield   13-6   249   8
17   Concordia (Texas) 21-6   214   21
23   Texas-Tyler   17-7   98   22

Also receiving votes: Pacific 5, Cal Lutheran 2,

*** Linfield is in 4th place in the NWC conference, Cal Lu is in 2nd place behind La Verne in the SCIAC

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2012, 02:26:51 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 27, 2012, 01:10:05 AM
From D3baseball Top 25
Games of Sunday, March 25

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.

1   Trinity (Texas) (17)   22-3   604   1
15   Linfield   13-6   249   8
17   Concordia (Texas) 21-6   214   21
23   Texas-Tyler   17-7   98   22

Also receiving votes: Pacific 5, Cal Lutheran 2,

*** Linfield is in 4th place in the NWC conference, Cal Lu is in 2nd place behind La Verne in the SCIAC
Linfield is falling fast. They were 8th in the previous week.  If they don't turn their season around in a hurry, then they will be sitting home.

There are a lot of teams from the rest of the country thatare putting good records very quickly.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on March 27, 2012, 03:35:37 PM
Its a joke Concordia is not in the top 10. Teams with 5 to 7 wins in that position. I know its just rankings, but at 17 that almost comical.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 27, 2012, 04:15:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2012, 02:26:51 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 27, 2012, 01:10:05 AM
From D3baseball Top 25
Games of Sunday, March 25

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.

1   Trinity (Texas) (17)   22-3   604   1
15   Linfield   13-6   249   8
17   Concordia (Texas) 21-6   214   21
23   Texas-Tyler   17-7   98   22

Also receiving votes: Pacific 5, Cal Lutheran 2,

*** Linfield is in 4th place in the NWC conference, Cal Lu is in 2nd place behind La Verne in the SCIAC
Linfield is falling fast. They were 8th in the previous week.  If they don't turn their season around in a hurry, then they will be sitting home.

There are a lot of teams from the rest of the country thatare putting good records very quickly.
Yes. Both of last years teams that played in the Championship West Regional Game(Chapman/Linfield) could both be staying home this year. With Linfield hosting the Regional for the 3rd time in recent years it wont be nice watching other teams play at their home field at the Regionals.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 27, 2012, 04:25:03 PM
Quote from: BamColt on March 27, 2012, 03:35:37 PM
Its a joke Concordia is not in the top 10. Teams with 5 to 7 wins in that position. I know its just rankings, but at 17 that almost comical.

Hold on there, Luke.  Two recent losses to sub-.500 Hardin-Simmons didn't help CTX's case.   If the 'nados get back to winning, some of the eastern teams will lose some games and Concordia will go back up in the polls.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2012, 04:43:12 PM
I agree about CTX.  A Top 25 team wins every 3-game series on the road ... unless it is against another Top 25 team.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on March 27, 2012, 05:04:37 PM
Hardin Simmons was the first series they lost all year. I agree if they keep doing what they are doing they will move up, but having 21 wins and not even in the top 10 is pretty laughable.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2012, 11:07:46 PM
Quote from: BamColt on March 27, 2012, 05:04:37 PM
Hardin Simmons was the first series they lost all year. I agree if they keep doing what they are doing they will move up, but having 21 wins and not even in the top 10 is pretty laughable.
Respectfully, who has CTX beaten?

They won the UTT series, 2-1.

Loss to LeTU.

Loss to George Fox.

Loss to Trinity TX.

Wins over Cal LU and LaVerne, but the SCIAC is down.

That is Top25 but not Top 10.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on March 28, 2012, 12:59:26 PM
Quote from: BamColt on March 27, 2012, 05:04:37 PM
Hardin Simmons was the first series they lost all year. I agree if they keep doing what they are doing they will move up, but having 21 wins and not even in the top 10 is pretty laughable.

Some teams have yet to play 21 games... Should Concordia (TX) be ahead of Marietta and its 10 wins? Look as WHO they are playing and not just the number of wins. There are often 30 win teams that are njot invited to the post-season while in the past some teams with many fewer wins (see St. Norbert at 19-12 two years ago) get a bid based on SoS.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 28, 2012, 03:23:31 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 28, 2012, 12:59:26 PM
Quote from: BamColt on March 27, 2012, 05:04:37 PM
Hardin Simmons was the first series they lost all year. I agree if they keep doing what they are doing they will move up, but having 21 wins and not even in the top 10 is pretty laughable.
Great feedback

Some teams have yet to play 21 games... Should Concordia (TX) be ahead of Marietta and its 10 wins? Look as WHO they are playing and not just the number of wins. There are often 30 win teams that are njot invited to the post-season while in the past some teams with many fewer wins (see St. Norbert at 19-12 two years ago) get a bid based on SoS.
Great post +1
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 28, 2012, 04:02:35 PM
Any predictions yet for Regionals


SCAC POOL A
SCIAC POOL A
NWC POOL A
ASC POOL A
POOL C
POOL C

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on March 28, 2012, 08:41:44 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 28, 2012, 04:02:35 PM
Any predictions yet for Regionals


SCAC POOL A
SCIAC POOL A
NWC POOL A
ASC POOL A
POOL C
POOL C
I still think either Linfield or Chapman finds a way to sneak back into the Pool picture when the decisions are made.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: baseballfan24 on March 28, 2012, 09:51:55 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 28, 2012, 04:02:35 PM
Any predictions yet for Regionals


SCAC POOL A
SCIAC POOL A
NWC POOL A
ASC POOL A
POOL C
POOL C

It still seems too early to tell.  I think The SCAC is dominated by Birmingham So. and Trinity, but I don't think you can discount Hendrix or Millsaps just yet.

The SCIAC appears as though it is going to come down to Cal Lu and Laverne.  Cal Lu can pitch it and Laverne can hit it.  It will be interesting to see who wins the season series, but there are some other teams still in the mix.

The NWC has been very interesting so far.  I think I'm with BigPoppa, and Linfield will step up to take it, but they certainly need to get going because Pac Lu seems to be back this year.  Plus Whitworth and Pacific are playing well in conference. 

It seems like the ASC favorite probably has to be Concordia.  They can pitch and play defense and seem to score enough runs, but I think it is too early to write off UT-Dallas and their pitching staff as well as Tx Lu.  UT-Tyler has another impressive record, but I'm not sure their schedule has been too tough.  They seem to play a lot of home games against teams without great records, but they can hit it.

Pool C will be interesting as always and certainly someone seemingly deserving of a chance will be left at home.  I think the loser of BSU and Trinity gets a bid, assuming they both continue to win.  So it would seem that Trinity is a lock for the regional should they not have a collapse in the back half of the season.

I think Linfield is a long ways from being out of it.  They are probably very strong again this year, and may have had a couple of tough weekends.  Chapman can't be excluded just yet, but they definitely have work to do to get back in it.

It looks like another interesting year for the west region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on March 29, 2012, 12:16:41 AM
Just a heads up on who has to play who still in the NWC amongst the top half of the conference (with current record)

Whitworth (7-2) = 3 games v Pacific, GF

Pacific (7-2) = 3 games v Whitworth, PLU

PLU (9-3) = 3 games v GF, Linfield, Pacific

Linfield (10-5) = 3 games v PLU, GF

George Fox (8-4) = 3 games v Whitworth, PLU, Linfield

No sense in predicting this years NWC based on current results (and the fact I haven't seen a single game for years!), but based on the standings and the series that have already been completed, Whitworth and Pacific are really in the driver's seat. Linfield is going to have to hope some of the bottom feeders take 2-3 games from Whit AND Pacific, on top of sweeping PLU and George Fox. Linfield could win out and still not get the auto bid the way things have set up...

I'm sure WC11 could give you actual thoughts/analysis on the teams at the top though, he's at least seen Pacific, Whit, and Linfield play each other.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 29, 2012, 12:56:53 AM
Lots of baseball left but it is always fun to speculate. Too early to count anyone out.

The SCAC conference is a split region conference. Not all the teams are in the West Region. Some are in the South.

http://www.d3baseball.com/teams/region/west

http://www.d3baseball.com/teams/region/south
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: playball on March 29, 2012, 01:50:49 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 29, 2012, 12:16:41 AM
Just a heads up on who has to play who still in the NWC amongst the top half of the conference (with current record)

Whitworth (7-2) = 3 games v Pacific, GF

Pacific (7-2) = 3 games v Whitworth, PLU

PLU (9-3) = 3 games v GF, Linfield, Pacific

Linfield (10-5) = 3 games v PLU, GF

George Fox (8-4) = 3 games v Whitworth, PLU, Linfield

No sense in predicting this years NWC based on current results (and the fact I haven't seen a single game for years!), but based on the standings and the series that have already been completed, Whitworth and Pacific are really in the driver's seat. Linfield is going to have to hope some of the bottom feeders take 2-3 games from Whit AND Pacific, on top of sweeping PLU and George Fox. Linfield could win out and still not get the auto bid the way things have set up...

I'm sure WC11 could give you actual thoughts/analysis on the teams at the top though, he's at least seen Pacific, Whit, and Linfield play each other.


Rat, Jack of all trades?!  Who knew? Good post too!  +K if I could
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 29, 2012, 08:06:35 AM
Quote from: playball on March 29, 2012, 01:50:49 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 29, 2012, 12:16:41 AM
Just a heads up on who has to play who still in the NWC amongst the top half of the conference (with current record)

Whitworth (7-2) = 3 games v Pacific, GF

Pacific (7-2) = 3 games v Whitworth, PLU

PLU (9-3) = 3 games v GF, Linfield, Pacific

Linfield (10-5) = 3 games v PLU, GF

George Fox (8-4) = 3 games v Whitworth, PLU, Linfield

No sense in predicting this years NWC based on current results (and the fact I haven't seen a single game for years!), but based on the standings and the series that have already been completed, Whitworth and Pacific are really in the driver's seat. Linfield is going to have to hope some of the bottom feeders take 2-3 games from Whit AND Pacific, on top of sweeping PLU and George Fox. Linfield could win out and still not get the auto bid the way things have set up...

I'm sure WC11 could give you actual thoughts/analysis on the teams at the top though, he's at least seen Pacific, Whit, and Linfield play each other.


Rat, Jack of all trades?!  Who knew? Good post too!  +K if I could

Karma given.   ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 29, 2012, 09:44:51 AM
Pool Predictions

SCAC POOL A - Trinity
SCIAC POOL A - Cal Lutheran
NWC POOL A - Pacific Lutheran
ASC POOL A - Concordia-Texas
POOL C - Linfield
POOL C- ???????
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 29, 2012, 09:55:18 AM
It is a bit early for me yet. Not sure about the SCIAC, and NWC quite yet. Concordia is also no slam dunk in the ASC, as it looks like McMurry, or TxDallas, (...or UTT) could be a threat. I think SCAC tournament could be quite a dog fight as teams get stronger, BSC is starting to play like they were expected to play. I would think that Trinity would either win the SCAC or get a pool C bid, other than that it is clear as mud.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 29, 2012, 12:07:41 PM
My thoughts on the NWC, I've watched a fair amount of games.

The top 5 teams are really bunched together, but Pacific is my pick to win the conference - particularly with their schedule moving forward.  It is going to be very difficult for anyone to take 2 of 3 games against them, as they really have the most effective #1 -#2 starting pitching punch in conference games up to this point.

PLU has a good hitting lineup (especially Gates), and I thought defensively they were very solid and athletic - particularly in the infield and at C.  The PLU shortstop has a few errors, but I'm certain he also makes a lot of plays that others wont.

For what it's worth, my son is a Frosh starting P in the conference, and has thrown a fair amount of pretty competitive innings against 3 of the top 5 (has yet to face Pacific and Whitworth) and he volunteered that Linfield's lineup was the toughest he's faced thus far all year.   Plus, with Linfied's 1-2 pitching tandem of Larsen and Vaughn being pretty close to Pacific's two guys, I'd lean to Linfield having a shot, but they need help.  Honestly, I don't know anything about Whitworth, haven't seen them.  Obviously, they are good.

The bottom feeders in conference are the usual suspects, and indeed the w/l records are really bad, but the opinions I get are that these squads are more likely this season than prior to rise up and catch someone off guard.  For instance, Fox's Ranta no-hit Whitman last Sat., but the Whitman pitcher took his own no-no into the 7th, and ended-up losing 1-0 on an unearned run after 8 2/3 scoreless.  Then Whitman takes a 4-0 lead going into the 6th in game 2, before the demons rose and knocked the wheels off.  L&C has some guys that swing it, and one really solid starting P. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 29, 2012, 02:20:05 PM
...finishing my NWC thoughts for the moment, yes, there is the possibility of a "spoiler" to rise up from the bottom teams and grab a win here and there that could really shake things up in the top of the NWC, allowing Linfield, PLU or G. Fox to win the conf.  However, my prediction as stated earlier is Pacific.  And, whatever team(s) make regionals, I believe will be strong and "battle tested" squads capable of making some noise in post season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on March 29, 2012, 02:31:34 PM
I think crashdavis is nuts for picking PLU, mainly because they have the most difficult schedule from here on out. They are going to have to take all 3 of those series to get the pool A

Even as a general Whitworth fan I don't think anyone knows how they will finish out the season. This is a program who has finished middle of the pack and been less talented than the perennial favorites (GF, Linfield, PLU) for quite some time. I don't think anyone who follows the conference would have given them a shot at being 7-2 at this point of the season after series' with PLU and Linfield out of the way. Basically, I don't think anyone would be surprised to see them drop enough games to some of the bad teams to fall out of first. Whitworth has GF this weekend, guess everyone will learn a little more about the Pirates then...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 29, 2012, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: BamColt on March 27, 2012, 03:35:37 PM
Its a joke Concordia is not in the top 10. Teams with 5 to 7 wins in that position. I know its just rankings, but at 17 that almost comical.

Im predicting a tough weekend for Concordia this week at UMHB. The bats are starting to come around. Call me nuts but im predicting UMHB 2 games to 1 this weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on March 29, 2012, 06:54:47 PM
Quote from: playball on March 29, 2012, 01:50:49 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 29, 2012, 12:16:41 AM
Just a heads up on who has to play who still in the NWC amongst the top half of the conference (with current record)

Whitworth (7-2) = 3 games v Pacific, GF

Pacific (7-2) = 3 games v Whitworth, PLU

PLU (9-3) = 3 games v GF, Linfield, Pacific

Linfield (10-5) = 3 games v PLU, GF

George Fox (8-4) = 3 games v Whitworth, PLU, Linfield

No sense in predicting this years NWC based on current results (and the fact I haven't seen a single game for years!), but based on the standings and the series that have already been completed, Whitworth and Pacific are really in the driver's seat. Linfield is going to have to hope some of the bottom feeders take 2-3 games from Whit AND Pacific, on top of sweeping PLU and George Fox. Linfield could win out and still not get the auto bid the way things have set up...

I'm sure WC11 could give you actual thoughts/analysis on the teams at the top though, he's at least seen Pacific, Whit, and Linfield play each other.


Rat, Jack of all trades?!  Who knew? Good post too!  +K if I could

It almost sounded like I knew something about NWC baseball huh? You'll notice there is little substance to my post, I will never claim to understand baseball and won't be able to provide analysis. But I can provide a little history and updated results, standings, and maybe some insider Whitworth news on occasion...boards are always more fun when people from more than a couple schools are posting
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Piobark on March 30, 2012, 12:09:34 PM
Having seen quite a few of the teams, I'd drop George Fox out of the contender list - they just aren't the same GF as in years past. And, with five losses (in a few more league games), Linfield is going to win out and get some help - just a lot of teams above them with 2 or 3 losses.

I think it will come down to Whitworth or Pacific - with the schedule giving the nod to Whitworth.

As for LC, their top starting pitcher is Michael Ball - who is also their starting shortstop. To keep him at short for the other two games, Coach Flynn has his rotation backwards, with their best pitcher going in game three. Makes for some mismatches - and some potential spoiler outcomes for LC. 

Promises to be a much more interesting last half of the season than in years past that is for sure!!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on April 01, 2012, 12:35:19 AM
Pacific has been fantastic with starting pitching but Rats have the bats.  As much as it pains me the 'Cats will needs a Hail Mary to win the NWC and I don't see them in a strong enough position to get an at-large bid.  A lot could happen but it's Pacific and Whitworth's to lose.  We'll see how they perform being the front-runners.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 01, 2012, 02:18:58 AM
Well Whitworth just dropped two to Fox today at home... So that makes things a bit more interesting. This is going to be a fun finish!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Piobark on April 01, 2012, 11:20:24 AM
Quote from: Piobark on March 30, 2012, 12:09:34 PM
Having seen quite a few of the teams, I'd drop George Fox out of the contender list - they just aren't the same GF as in years past. And, with five losses (in a few more league games), Linfield is going to win out and get some help - just a lot of teams above them with 2 or 3 losses.

I think it will come down to Whitworth or Pacific - with the schedule giving the nod to Whitworth.

As for LC, their top starting pitcher is Michael Ball - who is also their starting shortstop. To keep him at short for the other two games, Coach Flynn has his rotation backwards, with their best pitcher going in game three. Makes for some mismatches - and some potential spoiler outcomes for LC. 

Promises to be a much more interesting last half of the season than in years past that is for sure!!


Boy was this post wrong... GF rears up and slaps down Whitworth... and LC starts Ball in the first game against Whitman...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 01, 2012, 10:50:13 PM
Hendrix dropped two at UDallas today, 4-5 and 2-3.   Michael Byers (7.1 IP, 6 H, 1 ER) got both wins in relief for UD, improving to 7-1.  The Warriors drop to 18-11, 10-4 SCAC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 01, 2012, 11:15:47 PM
This makes the mid April home series vs Trinity (more) important for them. They probably will get the #2 seed in the West of the SCAC but this makes it a little bit tighter. They do not want to drop to the #3 to face BSC in the first round of the SCAC tournament.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 01, 2012, 11:20:14 PM
SCAC - Trinity(23-3)
SCIAC - Cal Lutheran(19-8) La Verne(19-10)
ASC - Concordia-Texas(24-6) Texas-Tyler 21-7)
NWC -  Linfield(15-7) Pacific Lutheran(17-8) Pacific(11-9)

I see SCAC getting 1 team, SCIAC 2, ASC 2 and NWC 1 for the West Regionals
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 02, 2012, 08:26:19 AM
How the top ten fared last week (corrections appreciated):

1.  Trinity (23-3): 1-0 (W v. UMHB 9-3)
2.  Marietta (14-3):  4-0 (W's @ Ohio Wesleyan 2-0, v. Frostburg St 18-0, v. ONU 7-3, 5-4)
3.  CNU (19-4): 3-0 (W's @ #5 Salisbury 4-2, v. Averett 6-0, 5-4)
4.  Kean (15-6): 2-2 (L @ Alvernia 1-7, W v. York 4-3, L/W @ TCNJ 1-2, 1-0)
5.  Salisbury (20-4): 3-1  (W @ St Mary MD 9-1, v. Va Wesleyan 8-2, L@ #3 CNU 2-4, W v Immaculata 7-1)
6.  Piedmont (20-9): 2-3  (W @Sewanee 9-3, L v #21 DePauw 6-13, L@ RV Emory 9-17, W/L v Emory 4-3, 5-14)
7.  Wheaton (15-3): 2-2 (W @Bridgewater St 11-6, L v Babson 2-3, W/L @Babson 4-3, 3-5)
8.  Eastern Connecticut (12-3): 4-0 (W's v Suffolk 5-4, v Roger Williams 7-3, v Mass-Boston 8-0, 15-2)
9.  UW-SP (10-4): 3-1 (W/L/W/W @ UW-Stout 10-6, 3-5, 18-5, 14-8)
10.  Keystone (12-4): 2-1 (W v Gwynedd-Mercy 4-3, L v Marywood 4-3, W/W @ Marywood 6-0, 5-1)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 02, 2012, 11:16:04 AM
Crash - this may be the year that the west only gets 4-5 teams with a team from another region being imported. Other than Trinity, no team is building a "convincing" record to ensure a Pool C bid. Everyone has to fly to Portland (except the NW team). It would be just as easy to put a team on a plane from say Chicago, Pittsburg, etc.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 02, 2012, 03:41:22 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on April 02, 2012, 11:16:04 AM
Crash - this may be the year that the west only gets 4-5 teams with a team from another region being imported. Other than Trinity, no team is building a "convincing" record to ensure a Pool C bid. Everyone has to fly to Portland (except the NW team). It would be just as easy to put a team on a plane from say Chicago, Pittsburg, etc.

You could be right. 1 team from SCIAC, 1 from SCAC, 1 from NWC and 2 from ASC. That would leave a Pool C open from another region to fly in. There are no real strong Pool C coming from SCIAC, SCAC, or NWC unless Trinity loses in the SCAC conference tourney.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 02, 2012, 04:40:45 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 01, 2012, 11:20:14 PM
SCAC - Trinity(23-3)
SCIAC - Cal Lutheran(19-8) La Verne(19-10)
ASC - Concordia-Texas(24-6) Texas-Tyler 21-7)
NWC -  Linfield(15-7) Pacific Lutheran(17-8) Pacific(11-9)

I see SCAC getting 1 team, SCIAC 2, ASC 2 and NWC 1 for the West Regionals
My problem with UT-Tyler is that they lost 2 of 3 to Concordia-Texas and UT-Dallas.

They have a loss to Hendrix but a win over TLU.  There is not much left on the schedule, (except a series against Centenary), to make a case for a quality team.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 03, 2012, 01:42:06 AM
Through games of Sunday, April 1 From TOP 25
#    
1  Trinity-TX   23-3    
13 Concordia-TX   24-6
19 Linfield    15-7
23 Texas-Tyler    21-7


Also receiving votes: Texas-Dallas 3, Pacific Lutheran 3, Cal Lutheran 1.

Is it possible that 3 Texas teams could make it to the West Regional. 1 from CA and 1 from the NW and 1 from outside the Region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 03, 2012, 11:26:59 AM
Concordia still doesn't crack the top 10. Maybe at 40 wins they get in. Trinity still playing lights out and Tyler jumps back in. Yes I agree, a Texas team needs to get back to Fox Cities and having three teams from Texas in the regional helps those chances.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: playball on April 03, 2012, 11:59:35 AM
What is the consensus about Linfield's chances of making playoffs if they don't win the NWC?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 03, 2012, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 03, 2012, 11:26:59 AM
Concordia still doesn't crack the top 10. Maybe at 40 wins they get in. Trinity still playing lights out and Tyler jumps back in. Yes I agree, a Texas team needs to get back to Fox Cities and having three teams from Texas in the regional helps those chances.
I dont think UT TYler gets in if they dont win the ASC tournament.  They are at 7 losses already and not winning the tourney would put them at 9 losses.  9 losses puts them on the edge with regards to pool C bids.  The loss to Hendrix in game two of the year could come back to haunt them
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on April 03, 2012, 12:10:43 PM
Quote from: playball on April 03, 2012, 11:59:35 AM
What is the consensus about Linfield's chances of making playoffs if they don't win the NWC?

There is still too much ball to be played to make an accurate assessment. They are also affected by outcomes of other teams in the West Region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 03, 2012, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 03, 2012, 11:26:59 AM
Concordia still doesn't crack the top 10. Maybe at 40 wins they get in. Trinity still playing lights out and Tyler jumps back in. Yes I agree, a Texas team needs to get back to Fox Cities and having three teams from Texas in the regional helps those chances.

Look at the To 25 this way.

Rank      Team                                  Region

# School (1st votes) Rec Pts Prev.
1 Trinity (Texas) (16) 23-3 604 1                               West      --  #1
2 Marietta (9) 14-3 599 2                                          Mideast -- #1
3 Christopher Newport 22-4 584 3                               South  -- #1
4 Salisbury 20-4 542 5                                              South  -- #2
5 Eastern Connecticut 13-3 450 8                               Northeast -- #1
6 Kean 15-6 435 4                                                    Mid-Atlantic  #1
7 St. Thomas 14-4 387 13                                          Midwest -- #1
8 UW-Stevens Point 10-4 370 9                                  Midwest --  #2
9 Rowan 15-5 358 11                                                Mid-Atlantic #2
10 Wheaton (Mass.) 15-3 355 7                                  Northeast -- #2
11 Keystone 12-4 347 10                                           Mid-Atlantic -- #3
12 Misericordia 20-3 312 12                                        MId-Atlantic -- #4
13 Concordia (Texas) 24-6 302 17                               West           -- #2
14 DePauw 23-3 300 21                                             Mideast       -- #2
15 Adrian 14-4 286 16                                               Mideast        -- #3
16 Piedmont 20-9 281 6                                            South --  #3


The MId-Atlantic is a big region (almost twice as big as the West) with lots of teams.

Look which regions are missing... The Central, home of the 2010 champion, and the tiny litte New York Region.

The other thing that throws off the casual observer is the constant exposure of BCS fans to the Football Top 25 which ranks the best teams from the 120-odd football teams.

We have nearly three times as many D-III teams that are playing baseball.  The BSC Top 25 is like our Top75, which means that there are another 25 teams who are "as good as" #25 in the BSC Football Top 25 who are not even getting votes in the D3Baseball.com poll.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 03, 2012, 04:27:16 PM
Looks like there will be a new #1 next week as Hardin-Simmons dealt Ben Klimesh (9-1) his first defeat today, 3-2.   Tied at 2, the Cowboys strung together a leadoff walk and three singles to score the winning run.   James Simmons (3-1) pitched two innings of no-hit relief as the Tigers were held to four hits overall. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 03, 2012, 04:37:36 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 03, 2012, 04:27:16 PM
Looks like there will be a new #1 next week as Hardin-Simmons dealt Ben Klimesh (9-1) his first defeat today, 3-2.   Tied at 2, the Cowboys strung together a leadoff walk and three singles to score the winning run.   James Simmons (3-1) pitched two innings of no-hit relief as the Tigers were held to four hits overall.
Tiger bats looked very bad today.  Hopefully they bounce back in game two and then show up for the Southwestern series.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 03, 2012, 06:24:32 PM
Trinity takes the second, 5-1, with Ryan Lucero improving to 8-0 with another complete game.  In seven innings, Lucero allowed no earned runs, four hits, and struck out at least eight (the live stats froze after the second out).   Nick Pappas had two hits and three RBI for the Tigers (24-4), who committed three errors in the game, one of which led to HSU's only run.     
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 03, 2012, 06:37:43 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 03, 2012, 01:42:06 AM
Through games of Sunday, April 1 From TOP 25
#    
1  Trinity-TX   23-3    
13 Concordia-TX   24-6
19 Linfield    15-7
23 Texas-Tyler    21-7


Also receiving votes: Texas-Dallas 3, Pacific Lutheran 3, Cal Lutheran 1.

Is it possible that 3 Texas teams could make it to the West Regional. 1 from CA and 1 from the NW and 1 from outside the Region.

In spite of the poll, I don't think Linfield and Tyler are likely to be 3 and 4 in the regional rankings. Linfield could be 3rd if they sweep this weekend. But Texas Lutheran, Pac Lutheran and UT-Dallas all I would think would be considered in the same class as Tyler. I would think as long as Pac Lu is ahead of Linfield if they stay ahead of them in the NWC after this weekend. UT-Dallas also has played a tougher schedule than Tyler.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 03, 2012, 06:39:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 03, 2012, 04:27:16 PM
Looks like there will be a new #1 next week 

Wouldn't be so sure. Marietta trails 6-3 with Mount Union batting in the 7th. MC is throwing their 3 and 4 guys today but that isn't very likely to be considered.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 03, 2012, 08:08:35 PM


Team   Conference   In-Region   Winning %
Trinity   SCAC   21-2   0.913
Pacific   NWC   11-2.   0.846
Concordia-TX   ASC   24-6   0.8
PLU   NWC   15-5   0.75
Cal Lutheran   SCIAC   17-6   0.739
Linfield   NWC   16-6   0.727
McMurry    ASC   15-6   0.714
La Verne   SCIAC   18-8   0.692
Texas Lutheran   ASC   15-7   0.682
Whitworth   NWC   14-6-1   0.666
UT-Dallas   ASC   19-10   0.655
UT-Tyler   ASC   15-7   0.655
Occidental   SCIAC   15-9   0.625
Hendrix   SCAC   13-9   0.619
George Fox   NWC   14-9   0.608
Pomona-Pitzer   SCIAC   14-10   0.583
Dallas   SCAC   13-11   0.541
Hardin-Simmons   ASC   10-9.   0.526
Mississippi Col.   ASC   11-10.   0.523
UMHB   ASC   12-13.   0.48
LA College   ASC   8-9.   0.47
Claremont   SCIAC   11-13)   0.458
Chapman   SCIAC*   10-12)   0.454
Redlands   SCIAC   9-11.   0.45
Whittier   SCIAC   11-14.   0.44
ETBU   ASC   8-15.   0.347
LeTourneau   ASC   8-16.   0.333
Willamette   NWC   5-10.   0.333
Howard Payne   ASC   7-15.   0.318
Southwestern   SCAC   7-18.   0.28
Ozarks   ASC   5-16.   0.238
Austin   SCAC   (5-18   0.217
Whitman   NWC   4-15.   0.21
Schreiner   ASC   5-20.   0.2
Sul Ross St.   ASC   5-20.   0.2
Lewis & Clark   NWC   4-17.   0.19
Puget Sound   NWC   3-16-1.   0.15
Cal Tech   SCIAC   0-18   0

I am sorry about the format but this is the "standings" for the region.  Obviously this is just straight wins and losses and no opponents strength of schedule and all that is considered.  Weird to see some teams like Pacific with only 13 in-region games while Concordia has played every single game in-region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 03, 2012, 09:24:14 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 03, 2012, 06:39:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 03, 2012, 04:27:16 PM
Looks like there will be a new #1 next week 

Wouldn't be so sure. Marietta trails 6-3 with Mount Union batting in the 7th. MC is throwing their 3 and 4 guys today but that isn't very likely to be considered.

Uhh I think CNU might be in the mix. You have to be able to win with your 3 & 4's to be worthy.

Dude - you gotta work on this negative Karma thing....

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 03, 2012, 11:23:05 PM
No way Trinity falls out of the top spot.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 03, 2012, 11:25:20 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 03, 2012, 09:24:14 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 03, 2012, 06:39:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 03, 2012, 04:27:16 PM
Looks like there will be a new #1 next week 

Wouldn't be so sure. Marietta trails 6-3 with Mount Union batting in the 7th. MC is throwing their 3 and 4 guys today but that isn't very likely to be considered.

Uhh I think CNU might be in the mix. You have to be able to win with your 3 & 4's to be worthy.

Dude - you gotta work on this negative Karma thing....
The champion in Wisconsin wins because #3 and #4 get the job done!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 03, 2012, 11:40:40 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 03, 2012, 11:25:20 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 03, 2012, 09:24:14 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 03, 2012, 06:39:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 03, 2012, 04:27:16 PM
Looks like there will be a new #1 next week 

Wouldn't be so sure. Marietta trails 6-3 with Mount Union batting in the 7th. MC is throwing their 3 and 4 guys today but that isn't very likely to be considered.

Uhh I think CNU might be in the mix. You have to be able to win with your 3 & 4's to be worthy.

Dude - you gotta work on this negative Karma thing....
The champion in Wisconsin wins because #3 and #4 get the job done!
Teams win National Championships because of their #3 and #4 guys..Marrieta, Kean, St. Thomas and others have proved that. Chapman fell short in 2009 and 2011 because the #1 was not available due to injuries both years and they were not deep enough to have #4 and #5 starter like most teams outside of the West must have to win games due to their compressed schedules.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 04, 2012, 06:41:42 PM
I think the teams in the north, northeast always have an easier path to Wisconsin in my opinion. I know the State of Texas hasn't had a team reach Fox Cities since Concordia in 2002, but its like hell going through the conference tourney, then having the regional against California and Arizona squads. I mean there are numerous teams in these Northern conference who can barley field a team.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 07:12:14 PM
BamColt, what Arizona D3 squads are you referring to?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 04, 2012, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 04, 2012, 06:41:42 PM
I think the teams in the north, northeast always have an easier path to Wisconsin in my opinion. I know the State of Texas hasn't had a team reach Fox Cities since Concordia in 2002, but its like hell going through the conference tourney, then having the regional against California and Arizona squads. I mean there are numerous teams in these Northern conference who can barley field a team.

I'll believe all the bluster about how tough it is in Texas when someone from there actually does something in Appleton. This year's your big shot because Chapman is probably not going to make it and Linfield's been questionable. We'll see what comes of it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 04, 2012, 07:22:55 PM
Bamcolt, there have been many discussions on this subject. Because Regionals are not seeded nationally, it is not always the case that the best teams are in Wisconsin. Just life my friend. You can blame Chapman if you want.  :D

Late edit: I don't think there is any bluster Heaven, maybe just a little whining. Facts are that the best teams are not there. Your right maybe this year....but maybe not, we will see.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 04, 2012, 07:23:51 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 03, 2012, 11:40:40 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 03, 2012, 11:25:20 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 03, 2012, 09:24:14 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 03, 2012, 06:39:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 03, 2012, 04:27:16 PM
Looks like there will be a new #1 next week 

Wouldn't be so sure. Marietta trails 6-3 with Mount Union batting in the 7th. MC is throwing their 3 and 4 guys today but that isn't very likely to be considered.

Uhh I think CNU might be in the mix. You have to be able to win with your 3 & 4's to be worthy.

Dude - you gotta work on this negative Karma thing....
The champion in Wisconsin wins because #3 and #4 get the job done!
Teams win National Championships because of their #3 and #4 guys..Marrieta, Kean, St. Thomas and others have proved that. Chapman fell short in 2009 and 2011 because the #1 was not available due to injuries both years and they were not deep enough to have #4 and #5 starter like most teams outside of the West must have to win games due to their compressed schedules.

Yeah, tell the people that have won 2 national titles in the last 5 years how to win national titles. Y'all overreact much? I swear the West region has an inferiority complex. Marietta had probably the best #3 starters since 1999 last year. All I made was a simple statement that they probably wouldn't be given any slack for losing with their #3/4 vs. Trinity's ace going down. I made no statement whether they should or not.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 04, 2012, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 03, 2012, 09:24:14 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 03, 2012, 06:39:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 03, 2012, 04:27:16 PM
Looks like there will be a new #1 next week 

Wouldn't be so sure. Marietta trails 6-3 with Mount Union batting in the 7th. MC is throwing their 3 and 4 guys today but that isn't very likely to be considered.

Uhh I think CNU might be in the mix. You have to be able to win with your 3 & 4's to be worthy.

Dude - you gotta work on this negative Karma thing....

Says the man largely responsible for it...not that I give a crap about karma. You care about it more than I do obviously because you brought it up. I think it's a worthless 7th grade-level popularity measure. I'm more interested in being incisive and insightful than spreading platitudes to make other people give me a +k. Call me crazy, I feel more is learned by the former.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 04, 2012, 07:30:57 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 04, 2012, 07:22:55 PM
Bamcolt, there have been many discussions on this subject. Because Regionals are not seeded nationally, it is not always the case that the best teams are in Wisconsin. Just life my friend. You can blame Chapman if you want.  :D

Late edit: I don't think there is any bluster Heaven, maybe just a little whining. Facts are that the best teams are not there. Your right maybe this year....but maybe not, we will see.

Pretty much. But to say a team with say ECSU, Trinity, Wheaton in their region just to name a few has it easy is silly and shows a lack of knowledge. I'd like to see some of these Texas schools come north and play half a dozen or more games in as many days all away from home early in their season and see how their record looks.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 04, 2012, 07:32:53 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 04, 2012, 07:22:55 PM
Bamcolt, there have been many discussions on this subject. Because Regionals are not seeded nationally, it is not always the case that the best teams are in Wisconsin. Just life my friend. You can blame Chapman if you want.  :D

Late edit: I don't think there is any bluster Heaven, maybe just a little whining. Facts are that the best teams are not there. Your right maybe this year....but maybe not, we will see.
Are you talking about D-III baseball or all NCAA tournaments?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 04, 2012, 07:54:09 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 04, 2012, 06:41:42 PM
I think the teams in the north, northeast always have an easier path to Wisconsin in my opinion. I know the State of Texas hasn't had a team reach Fox Cities since Concordia in 2002, but its like hell going through the conference tourney, then having the regional against California and Arizona squads. I mean there are numerous teams in these Northern conference who can barley field a team.
Conferences tourneys are killers for the ASC and SCAC. SCIAC, NWC and Independents before 2012 in the West did not. George Fox, Linfield and Chapman did not have to go thru conference tourney's to get to Wisconsin in past years.

West teams seem to be at a disadvantage not having to develop a deep pitching staff since they do not play a compressed schedule like the teams in the Central, East and Northeast have to play in and must develop 4 starters and deep relief staff. West teams start early and rarely play more than 3/4 games in a week.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 04, 2012, 08:22:41 PM
I did not realize that about some of the West Coast teams. It just seems like the ASC always has a brutal journey to end up in Appleton compared to other conferences.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 09:10:08 PM
I would propose an argument to CrashDavis that wouldn't it behoove a competitive West Region team to recruit and and develop as deep a pitching staff as possible, on par with any team in the nation, regardless of how the schedules differ between West and East, Mid West, Northeast?  The old adage in baseball is that "you can never have too much pitching"

What particularly comes to mind is the wealth of two way talent (utility players) that resides in So Cal for a team like Chapman to draw from.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 04, 2012, 09:46:54 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 09:10:08 PM
I would propose an argument to CrashDavis that wouldn't it behoove a competitive West Region team to recruit and and develop as deep a pitching staff as possible, on par with any team in the nation, regardless of how the schedules differ between West and East, Mid West, Northeast?  The old adage in baseball is that "you can never have too much pitching"

What particularly comes to mind is the wealth of two way talent (utility players) that resides in So Cal for a team like Chapman to draw from.

Exactly. Nothing is stopping them from using a deeper pitching staff or scheduling a compressed set of games to test it.

The ASC, SCIAC and NWC tourneys aren't any more of a disadvantage than a conference tourney is for a lot of other leagues. If a team is good enough they get a Pool C anyway and bounce back from a conference tourney disappointment. There have been several teams that lost their conference tourney that went on to win the national championship.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 04, 2012, 09:58:45 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 04, 2012, 09:46:54 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 09:10:08 PM
I would propose an argument to CrashDavis that wouldn't it behoove a competitive West Region team to recruit and and develop as deep a pitching staff as possible, on par with any team in the nation, regardless of how the schedules differ between West and East, Mid West, Northeast?  The old adage in baseball is that "you can never have too much pitching"

What particularly comes to mind is the wealth of two way talent (utility players) that resides in So Cal for a team like Chapman to draw from.

Exactly. Nothing is stopping them from using a deeper pitching staff or scheduling a compressed set of games to test it.

The ASC, SCIAC and NWC tourneys aren't any more of a disadvantage than a conference tourney is for a lot of other leagues. If a team is good enough they get a Pool C anyway and bounce back from a conference tourney disappointment. There have been several teams that lost their conference tourney that went on to win the national championship.
ASC, SCAC have conference tourneys. SCIAC, NWC does not.

In the West it would be near impossible to schedule a compressed schedule because it will be difficult to schedule schools who will not play a compressed schedule due to academics. SCIAC and SCAC conference come to mind. Coaches in the West win with their best 3 pitchers as starters and it gets them to the Regionals and even win the Regionals but hurts trying to win a  National Championship since they run out of arms by the last day or next to last day
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 04, 2012, 10:14:00 PM
It is not possible to schedule a compresses schedule in large part because of logisitics. The SoCal schools play each other repeatedly, the NW schools play each other repeatedly. The logitics in Texas makes it virtually impossible to schedule any kind of compress schedule when it is trips can be anywhere from 2 hours to 14 hours. Because of logisitics, the west is logisticly as big as 3-4 other regions combined when you start think about building a "regional schedule."

Everyone has to adjust. The northern teams have to adjust because of weather. The western teams adjust becuase of logistics.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 04, 2012, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 04, 2012, 09:58:45 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 04, 2012, 09:46:54 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 09:10:08 PM
I would propose an argument to CrashDavis that wouldn't it behoove a competitive West Region team to recruit and and develop as deep a pitching staff as possible, on par with any team in the nation, regardless of how the schedules differ between West and East, Mid West, Northeast?  The old adage in baseball is that "you can never have too much pitching"

What particularly comes to mind is the wealth of two way talent (utility players) that resides in So Cal for a team like Chapman to draw from.

Exactly. Nothing is stopping them from using a deeper pitching staff or scheduling a compressed set of games to test it.

The ASC, SCIAC and NWC tourneys aren't any more of a disadvantage than a conference tourney is for a lot of other leagues. If a team is good enough they get a Pool C anyway and bounce back from a conference tourney disappointment. There have been several teams that lost their conference tourney that went on to win the national championship.
ASC, SCAC have conference tourneys. SCIAC, NWC does not.

Fair enough, but point remains. There's as much or more competition in other leagues. Considering by far the best program in the West is an independent, it's really hard to figure out why West region fans have such an inflated view of the region's quality.

In the West it would be near impossible to schedule a compressed schedule because it will be difficult to schedule schools who will not play a compressed schedule due to academics.

They could play the same schedule the eastern teams play when they come west...same number of games in the same days. Nothing stopping them.

SCIAC and SCAC conference come to mind. Coaches in the West win with their best 3 pitchers as starters and it gets them to the Regionals and even win the Regionals but hurts trying to win a  National Championship since they run out of arms by the last day or next to last day

Again, nothing stopping them from running another guy out there and giving them some experience. The SCAC is such a weak league that any team that is regional caliber should be able to win with their down the line pitching over some of those teams anyway.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 04, 2012, 10:37:38 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 09:10:08 PM
I would propose an argument to CrashDavis that wouldn't it behoove a competitive West Region team to recruit and and develop as deep a pitching staff as possible, on par with any team in the nation, regardless of how the schedules differ between West and East, Mid West, Northeast?  The old adage in baseball is that "you can never have too much pitching"

What particularly comes to mind is the wealth of two way talent (utility players) that resides in So Cal for a team like Chapman to draw from.

George Fox proved you don't need pitching depth to win the CWS.
If a coaching staff is willing to ride the arm of the best pitcher in all of D3, no matter what the risks, a team can win with lesser pitching depth.
Whether other coaching staffs would be willing to ride the risk is at the focus of the issue, in my view.
Again, I fully realize some on the site say Appleton is "THE" proof.
I don't.
Appleton is a great reward but it just isn't the 8 best teams playing there each year. All are plenty good and no one can take that away.
The best 8...not in my view
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 10:48:46 PM
I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 04, 2012, 11:29:14 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 10:48:46 PM
I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?
I think that the East, Northeast and Midwest teams have less competition at the D-2 and NJCAA levels for talent than we have in the South and West, especially.  I believe that "D-2 and quality "NJCAA/D-1or D2" talent "falls" to D-3 up north.

Three high quality baseball conferences are the NJAC, the Little East and the WIAC. Those state schools have quality programs. It is probably harder for a northern D-2 school to have a quality baseball program than any other sport.  So talent that doesn't get a (partial baseball) scholarship down south, paying partial out-of-state tuition, can stay in Wisconsin, New Jersey or Connecticut and play great ball.  The season warms up in March thru May with collegiate ball, and they just play thru the summer in the wooden bat leagues.

Baseball is "king" in the south and southwest and west.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 04, 2012, 11:44:15 PM
Ralph's hit on something I've thought about, but I don't know if ultimately I think it's right or not.

When I lived in South Carolina, I knew of really good players that didn't play college ball at all. The talent there is so deep compared to up north. I'm interested to see what the future holds for Birmingham Southern, a program I think is well positioned to take advantage of that depth.

It's true that D-II champions or even close to champions from up north are pretty rare, but I think the overall depth of the talent pool in the south might make up for that. But then it might not.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 04, 2012, 11:56:36 PM
Ralph knows D3 and baseball in the South and West, for sure.
In Northern CA., we have no D3 programs.
JC's end up with upwards of 100 players who tryout.
DII is huge and with programs like CSU Chico and CSU Sonoma State, one or the other is playing for the D2 National Championship nearly every year.
So many players think they are DI.  In many areas of the Country they are.
In Northern CA., many get cut from a JC or DII due to the level of competition.
D3 is not in the equation.
In New England, D3 proliferates and the academics can be a huge attraction.
To support Ralph, many of those cuts at a California JC or DII would be wonderful D3 players.
However, once they are cut, they stop.
Often times the same issue exists  in Texas where JC and DII are huge.
While Texas has wonderful D3 schools and baseball, the JC  and DII players who get cut don't end up transferring for many reasons, some of which involve the academics.
As Ralph said, geographics plays a major role in this discussion.
Honestly, in California, many players would be wonderful D3 players.
For many reasons they don't find D3 an attractive option.
When there are schools like all those in New England, New Jersey, Wisconsin, Minnesota which attract so well locally, "attraction" is just different.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 05, 2012, 12:22:19 AM
Let me share this news release from the NCBWA. These are the attendance reports, by total fans and by attendance per game.

Baseball is "king" in the west and south.

2012 Division I Baseball Attendance Compiled by Tami Cutler, Wichita State Athletic Media Relations

Report #7 — 4/2/12
By Average (min. 1,200)
School Avg. Total #
1. LSU 10,496 241,408 23
2. Arkansas 7,740 147,074 19
3. South Carolina 7,392 133,071 18
4. Ole Miss 7,321 153,750 21
5. Mississippi State 5,968 107,433 18
6. Texas 5,940 59,400 10
7. Florida State 4,622 83,202 18
8. Clemson 4,545 81,814 18
9. TCU 4,439 53,272 12
10. Texas A&M 4,247 101,936 24
11. Florida 3,696 66,545 18
12. Southern Miss 3,488 52,329 15
13. Alabama 3,451 51,775 15
14. Rice 3,306 59,522 18
15. Hawaii 3,175 69,858 22
16. Nebraska 3,021 51,367 17
17. Auburn 2,856 57,127 20
18. Virginia 2,850 51,305 18
19. East Carolina 2,825 48,029 17
20. Tulane 2,803 50,463 18
21. Texas Tech 2,768 47,068 17
22. Baylor 2,734 54,697 20
23. Miami, Fla. 2,709 51,471 19
24. Wichita State 2,675 56,177 21
25. Creighton 2,357 18,860 8
26. Vanderbilt 2,238 44,773 20
27. Louisiana-Lafayette 2,211 26,539 12
28. Stanford 2,150 30,101 14
29. Arizona 2,114 46,515 22
30. Georgia 1,992 47,824 24
31. Arizona State 1,978 29,678 15
32. Tennessee 1,778 37,340 21
33. Fresno State 1,694 35,583 21
Cal State Fullerton 1,694 28,800 17
35. Louisiana-Monroe 1,670 26,733 16
36. New Mexico 1,565 28,176 18
37. Kentucky 1,521 28,906 19
38. UCF 1,451 31,940 22
39. Oregon 1,432 18,622 13
40. Texas State 1,396 22,336 16
41. Georgia Tech 1,371 21,946 16
42. Georgia Southern 1,352 20,284 15
43. South Alabama 1,336 17,370 13
44. Oregon State 1,297 12,977 10
45. Troy 1,255 16,319 13



Total
School Avg. Total #
1. LSU 10,496 241,408 23
2. Ole Miss 7,321 153,750 21
3. Arkansas 7,740 147,074 19
4. South Carolina 7,392 133,071 18
5. Mississippi State 5,968 107,433 18
6. Texas A&M 4,247 101,936 24
7. Florida State 4,622 83,202 18
8. Clemson 4,545 81,814 18
9. Hawaii 3,175 69,858 22
10. Florida 3,696 66,545 18
11. Rice 3,306 59,522 18
12. Texas 5,940 59,400 10
13. Auburn 2,856 57,127 20
14. Wichita State 2,675 56,177 21
15. Baylor 2,734 54,697 20
16. TCU 4,439 53,272 12
17. Southern Miss 3,488 52,329 15
18. Alabama 3,451 51,775 15
19. Miami, Fla. 2,709 51,471 19
20. Nebraska 3,021 51,367 17
21. Virginia 2,850 51,305 18
22. Tulane 2,803 50,463 18
23. East Carolina 2,825 48,029 17
24. Georgia 1,992 47,824 24
25. Texas Tech 2,768 47,068 17
26. Arizona 2,114 46,515 22
27. Vanderbilt 2,238 44,773 20
28. Tennessee 1,778 37,340 21
29. Fresno State 1,694 35,583 21
30. UCF 1,451 31,940 22
31. Stanford 2,150 30,101 14
32. Arizona State 1,978 29,678 15
33. Kentucky 1,521 28,906 19
34. Cal State Fullerton 1,694 28,800 17
35. New Mexico 1,565 28,176 18
36. Louisiana-Monroe 1,670 26,733 16
37. Louisiana-Lafayette 2,211 26,539 12
38. Texas State 1,396 22,336 16
39. Georgia Tech 1,371 21,946 16
40. Georgia Southern 1,352 20,284 15
41. Stetson 1,182 18,919 16
42. Creighton 2,357 18,860 8
43. Oregon 1,432 18,622 13
44. South Alabama 1,336 17,370 13
45. Troy 1,255 16,319 13
46. Long Beach State 1,183 14,197 12
47. Cal Poly 1,046 13,598 13
48. Oregon State 1,297 12,977 10
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 05, 2012, 12:26:58 AM
Whatagame.

Baseball is huge in the West, but I think Ralph pointed this out once that there are only 45 D3 baseball teams west of the Mississippi.  If you look from a % standpoint there are a high number of Western D3 teams ranked relative to the number of schools fielding programs so % wise it is very successful, it just gets lost in the D1 noise, and the fact that there are so many Eastern teams.

From a talent standpoint, there are many many more D1 players in California than there are Cal. roster spots so you see a large number of them in programs all over the country, including D1, D2 and D3. 

The top Western D3 programs like to recruit borderline D1 players and D1 players who play D3 ball for academic reasons. Obviously they can't fill their rosters with them, but teams like Chapman and Trinity have quite a few D1 players playing D3 ball generally for academic reasons. As infielddad pointed out there are just not the many of them.




Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 05, 2012, 12:29:23 AM
What do you mean by academic reasons?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 05, 2012, 12:34:25 AM
We fans like to think of baseball as the "thinking man's sport". After all, we don't think that it is unusual for Stanford and Rice to be in the College World Series finals.

In other parts of the country, you have a really good kid who knows that he won't make pro ball, but he loves the sport and coaches love him for his insight to the game.  He ends up at St Thomas, or WashUStL or Wheaton MA or DePauw or Johns Hopkins or Tufts or Williams or Amherst (or numerous others) and is playing baseball for the academics...

In the south, he might be playing [partial] scholarship ball at D-II or D-1 within a 200-mile radius of home where his folks can catch most of the games.

As for Birmingham-Southern, yes they will be a force in the SAA.

Also the SCAC will get 2 really outstanding programs to challenge Trinity in Centenary LA and Texas Lutheran.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 05, 2012, 12:40:44 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 05, 2012, 12:29:23 AM
What do you mean by academic reasons?
Academic reasons, they get plenty of playing time at D-III and get a really great education.

They were not good enough ball players to get the scholarship to Rice or Stanford, so they play at the level where they get the education that they want and can play plenty of ball.

I interviewed a player from Johns Hopkins for D3baseball.com about 4 years ago.  He was playing Texas League ball, but in my mind, he might never have his "cup of coffee", but he might end up as general manager if he wanted to.  Sure he rode bus from Midland to San Antonio to Arkansas. He knew the road trips so he could relate.  What he learned at Hopkins was what was valuable for him in the front office, besides what he lived during his time in AA.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 05, 2012, 01:08:43 AM
Heaven,

Ralph hit on one aspect of the academic reasons, but I know several D1 players who are playing D3 ball because it was virtually impossible for them to be a premed, science or engineering major and play D1 ball. (and get any playing time) Also when you look at the scholarships available with 11.7 limitations (this assumes they are fully funded) for a D1 program, in many cases there is as much or more academic money available for a high academic kid.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 05, 2012, 05:01:34 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 05, 2012, 12:29:23 AM
What do you mean by academic reasons?
In a D1 school it is impossible to be a pre-med, pre-law student with the demands of games, practices etc..in these programs.

In the West without compressed schedules for D3 teams, several players I have seen go into law school, medical school and other graduate programs after 4 years of playing baseball.

I have personally seen in the same program players going into medical school, law school, DPT school, get their CPA and an MBA.

This is from a program that has played in Appleton in most years over the past decade with players taking finals almost every year in their dugouts or from hotels during the regionals.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 05, 2012, 08:25:55 AM
Thanks for the clarification everyone. I agree that's a very good reason to go D-III. I thought you were saying because of inability to play in D-I academically, and I was thinking 'well don't most of those people go D-II?'. And I know a lot of those SCIAC schools are pretty good so I was thinking I had the wrong take. So I wanted to get the right one.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on April 05, 2012, 09:23:25 AM
Quote from: infielddad on April 04, 2012, 11:56:36 PM
Ralph knows D3 and baseball in the South and West, for sure.
In Northern CA., we have no D3 programs.
JC's end up with upwards of 100 players who tryout.
DII is huge and with programs like CSU Chico and CSU Sonoma State, one or the other is playing for the D2 National Championship nearly every year.
So many players think they are DI.  In many areas of the Country they are.
In Northern CA., many get cut from a JC or DII due to the level of competition.
D3 is not in the equation.
In New England, D3 proliferates and the academics can be a huge attraction.
To support Ralph, many of those cuts at a California JC or DII would be wonderful D3 players.
However, once they are cut, they stop.
Often times the same issue exists  in Texas where JC and DII are huge.
While Texas has wonderful D3 schools and baseball, the JC  and DII players who get cut don't end up transferring for many reasons, some of which involve the academics.
As Ralph said, geographics plays a major role in this discussion.
Honestly, in California, many players would be wonderful D3 players.
For many reasons they don't find D3 an attractive option.
When there are schools like all those in New England, New Jersey, Wisconsin, Minnesota which attract so well locally, "attraction" is just different.

While a coach at an NAIA program in SoCal, I routinely raided the NorCal Junior Colleges for talent(Feather River, Sac City, Cerro Coso, etc...) . Most of the JC starters at the top programs were either drafted or signed with a D1 (Oklahoma and Oral Roberts loaded up every year). I would chase the second level player that was not getting D1 looks or was a D1 guy that did not want to leave California. If D3s wanted to make a run with top notch JC kids, all they need to do is look to NorCal... many, many great players simply find nowhere to play after JC ball and hang it up.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Gray Fox on April 05, 2012, 10:45:51 AM
The boards for other sports have covered the topic for SCIAC schools.  People in the LA area just don't know about their local D3 schools like people in the east and mid west do.  And the coaches aren't much help.  There are exceptions for specific schools like Chapman that used to be successful at a higher level before they decided to become D3.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 05, 2012, 10:46:40 AM
I assume BigPoppa that you were dealing with one of my all time favorite guys Jerry Weinstein then.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on April 05, 2012, 11:00:28 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 05, 2012, 10:46:40 AM
I assume BigPoppa that you were dealing with one of my all time favorite guys Jerry Weinstein then.

Indeed... some of the JC coaches were very good at moving their players to the next level after JC ball. They were open and honest with coaches and players and always put kids in a spot where they could succeed. Cerro Coso's Dick Adams, Santa Ana's Don Sneddon and Yavapai's (AZ) Sky Smelzer were the best to work with.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 05, 2012, 11:49:47 AM
The impact of geography and tradition are huge. 90% of D3 ball happens within 750 miles +/-. This creates tradition and awareness that helps teams thrive.

My son came from NorCal, where it has been pointed out there are no D3's. As a family, we valued education and put it above baseball. Coming out of HS he was approached by a MLB club during the draft and follow era. They wanted him to go to the local JC along with a handful of other players from our area that had either been drafted or were potential  "draft and follow."

Because of the absolute number of players in California versus the number of roster spots, his only baseball options were at several state schools (all D2) with less than a stellar academic profile. He choose a good D3 program in Texas because he knew he would play while getting a first class education. He graduated in 4-years, had a stellar career and now is in grad school getting his MBA.

Of the kids that we knew that were either drafted or approached as "draft and follow"; only one went on to play at a D1 program (he never graduated) and several went on to NAIA programs where academics were less stingent. Most played a couple of years of JC ball and are now struggling to earn a living.

I have spoken with countless parents here in CA. There is a very limited (almost nonexsistent) perspective as to what D3 baseball is all about. Most kids would rather ride the bench at a state D1/D2 then think about traveling half way across the country to a D3 program that they have never heard of.

It is reality; geography and tradition shape D3 programs.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 05, 2012, 01:04:26 PM
That is a great story ILVBB. I think it is a very common one for players in Calif. There are so many fine small schools in the eastern half of the country (mid west is east for us Cal guys... :o) but relatively few in the West. (other than the SCIAC conf) Chapman does a great job of recruiting, but like Cal State Fullerton and UCI they sit right in the middle of one of the top hot beds of baseball in the country so they don't have to go far for talent. Because of the academics at Trinity, and the fact that the coaching staff puts in the effort, they are able recruit players from all over the country. I know some of the other programs in Tx and the South West are seeking to mirror this type recruiting to compete with them. I have glanced at some of the rosters of some of the other top South and East programs and for the most part they seem to get their talent locally.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 05, 2012, 01:11:36 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 05, 2012, 09:23:25 AM
Quote from: infielddad on April 04, 2012, 11:56:36 PM
Ralph knows D3 and baseball in the South and West, for sure.
In Northern CA., we have no D3 programs.
JC's end up with upwards of 100 players who tryout.
DII is huge and with programs like CSU Chico and CSU Sonoma State, one or the other is playing for the D2 National Championship nearly every year.
So many players think they are DI.  In many areas of the Country they are.
In Northern CA., many get cut from a JC or DII due to the level of competition.
D3 is not in the equation.
In New England, D3 proliferates and the academics can be a huge attraction.
To support Ralph, many of those cuts at a California JC or DII would be wonderful D3 players.
However, once they are cut, they stop.
Often times the same issue exists  in Texas where JC and DII are huge.
While Texas has wonderful D3 schools and baseball, the JC  and DII players who get cut don't end up transferring for many reasons, some of which involve the academics.
As Ralph said, geographics plays a major role in this discussion.
Honestly, in California, many players would be wonderful D3 players.
For many reasons they don't find D3 an attractive option.
When there are schools like all those in New England, New Jersey, Wisconsin, Minnesota which attract so well locally, "attraction" is just different.

While a coach at an NAIA program in SoCal, I routinely raided the NorCal Junior Colleges for talent(Feather River, Sac City, Cerro Coso, etc...) . Most of the JC starters at the top programs were either drafted or signed with a D1 (Oklahoma and Oral Roberts loaded up every year). I would chase the second level player that was not getting D1 looks or was a D1 guy that did not want to leave California. If D3s wanted to make a run with top notch JC kids, all they need to do is look to NorCal... many, many great players simply find nowhere to play after JC ball and hang it up.

BigPoppa,
Being at an NAIA in SoCal, I am surprised you would need to even look to Northern CA to fill a roster with highly talented players.  ;D
On the other hand, I can see why good coaches would do that!
On the D3 side, it can be tougher for JC players to transfer to more selective academic schools, even if they had the interest.  Too many lost units is a major stumbling block.
What has been a major plus for D3's to find talent in California is the Stanford Camp.
Coach Scannell at Trinity was probably the first to attend that Camp and find and recruit quality players with the academics to be admitted to TU  to build his program.
He is a mainstay at that Camp every Summer and routinely finds players with DI skills, the academics, and who are subject to the numbers game for DI in California. Just my opinion but I believe that Stanford Camp, coupled with the retirement of Coach Mallon and there being nothing similar to the Stanford Camp in Texas is part of an explanation for the rise of Trinity baseball and the struggles at Southwestern, which used to be the D3 program in Texas.
I know that Coach McCain of Millsaps, Coach Groat at Hendrix also now attend as do coaches from the NWC and SCIAC.
The Stanford Camp is now so popular for visibility and recruiting for top academic opportunities that they have just added a 3rd All Star Camp this Summer.
If a coach were to attend all three camps, he can now see upwards of 750 to 800 players, most all with very good academic qualifications and an awful lot of them with some DI ability, and no DI's to recruit them.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on April 05, 2012, 02:28:32 PM
If you ever want to see an incrfedible mass of talent, attend the (open to the public) Junior College Showcase at Loyala Marymount every fall. Each SoCal JC program can send up to 3-4 unsigned sophomores. It is an incredible scene filled with MLB scouts, at least 30-40 D1 coaching staffs (I sat between guys from Notre Dame and North Carolina).

Plus, top-notch players for small college to scoop up. Easier than driving all over to find them as they come right to you in one place.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 05, 2012, 02:39:16 PM
BigPoppa - They have the "same" showcase in NorCal at DVC. Every year 200+/- quality JC players. What you don't see is too many kids either wanting to or willing to move on to D3 programs; it is not part of the California "tradition." That is why this discussion is important to posters from the regions where D3 ball has stong backing from both a baseball prospective as well as academic.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on April 05, 2012, 06:14:53 PM
LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 05, 2012, 10:10:22 PM
JUCO ball in Texas is very competitive as well. San Jac , Navarro, Grayson, Mcclennan etc have had some teams that could go out and compete with Texas , Texas A&M and Baylor on a consistent basis. San Jac is a goldmine for MLB draft products, especially on the mound.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 06, 2012, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 05, 2012, 06:14:53 PM
LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 06, 2012, 01:18:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 04, 2012, 11:29:14 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 10:48:46 PM
I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?
I think that the East, Northeast and Midwest teams have less competition at the D-2 and NJCAA levels for talent than we have in the South and West, especially.  I believe that "D-2 and quality "NJCAA/D-1or D2" talent "falls" to D-3 up north.

Three high quality baseball conferences are the NJAC, the Little East and the WIAC. Those state schools have quality programs. It is probably harder for a northern D-2 school to have a quality baseball program than any other sport.  So talent that doesn't get a (partial baseball) scholarship down south, paying partial out-of-state tuition, can stay in Wisconsin, New Jersey or Connecticut and play great ball.   The season warms up in March thru May with collegiate ball, and they just play thru the summer in the wooden bat leagues.

Baseball is "king" in the south and southwest and west.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 06, 2012, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 05, 2012, 06:14:53 PM
LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.
I am not so sure about that.  If you asked around the D-III clubhouses on Ohio, you could probably find 2-3 players on each of the 21 D-III schools in the state who turned down a partial scholarship down south to play ball closer to home.  it doesn't take many players to make the difference in a team. 

Really good players do go down south.  At the D-III level, we are looking at a D-1 bench rider who will get 10-15% partial scholarship for minimal playing time, versus being an everyday player star in DIII.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 06, 2012, 04:07:52 PM
Trinity goes down 6-2 in the first game of a DH at Southwestern.  First game I have seen in person and they did not field well, which ended up costing them any chance at a win.  3 official errors plus a balk resulted in most of the Southwestern runs.   Only six hits for Trinity against a Pirate pitcher (Chris Webber, CG win, now 2-3) with a 5+ ERA.   Whatever Webber was doing, he was getting the Trinity batters to hit a lot of high popups. 

Starter Michael Bentz (2-1) got the loss, allowing the only Southwestern earned run of the day (plus 2 unearned) in 3 2/3 innings.     The Pirates were very disciplined at the plate, striking out only three times, and outhit Trinity 10-6. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 06, 2012, 06:22:26 PM
Trinity loses the second game 9-7.  They led 3-0 before starter Zach Speer (who had a no-hitter through four; 0-2) tired, allowing 1 run in the bottom of the fifth and four in the sixth before being relieved.   Southwestern would put six runs on the board in that inning as Trinity went through a total of four pitchers before retiring the side.   The Tigers' furious attempt at a comeback in the top of the ninth (which they entered trailing 9-3) ended with the winning run at the plate with two out before a harmless groundout to 1B. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 06, 2012, 06:49:06 PM
Concordia sweeps Schriener in Austin today. Pitching staff gave up two runs all weekend. Shutout in game 1 and 3.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 06, 2012, 07:05:28 PM
What's up with the 7 inning games in the SCAC?  I saw that game 1 of Trinity/Southwestern, a conference game, was a 7 inning game.  Then I noticed that there were more of the short games played during the season?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2012, 10:42:57 PM
On double headers they do a 7-9 due to travel/time constraints.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 06:34:52 AM
Trinity deserved to lose this double header against a very mediocre Southwestern team. Why in the world would you throw your 2 best pitchers in a mid week game when you have a conference double header 3 days later? Trinity is good, but their pitching staff isnt that deep. Kudos to Southwestern.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 07, 2012, 10:00:01 AM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 06:34:52 AM
Trinity deserved to lose this double header against a very mediocre Southwestern team. Why in the world would you throw your 2 best pitchers in a mid week game when you have a conference double header 3 days later? Trinity is good, but their pitching staff isnt that deep. Kudos to Southwestern.
That is how coach Scannell has always done it. He plays to win every game and has always thrown top arms mid week. This time it backfired. In years past, he had the offense to cover and this year, right now, they dont.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 10:13:49 AM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 06:34:52 AM
Trinity deserved to lose this double header against a very mediocre Southwestern team. Why in the world would you throw your 2 best pitchers in a mid week game when you have a conference double header 3 days later? Trinity is good, but their pitching staff isnt that deep. Kudos to Southwestern.
Let me offer my opinion on managing the pitching staff the way that he did.

Going into the HSU game, TU had 1 in-region loss.  The HSU games counted as much in the eyes of the post-season selection committee as did Southwestern.  TU had not played the weekend before, so the arms were up for the rotation. He could use the pitchers in the sequence that he did.  Most of us think that HSU was the harder opponent, and TU has quite a lead on the second place SCAC-West Team for the #1 division seed, anyway. Taking care of business will get Trinity the #1 SCAC-West seed.

I thought that Coach Scannell made a wise decision.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 07, 2012, 10:35:25 AM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 06:34:52 AM
Trinity deserved to lose this double header against a very mediocre Southwestern team. Why in the world would you throw your 2 best pitchers in a mid week game when you have a conference double header 3 days later? Trinity is good, but their pitching staff isnt that deep. Kudos to Southwestern.

Thank you for saying this first so I didn't have to.  I think it is totally irresponsible to throw your #1 and #2 in a mid-week series when you have conference coming up.  I am not here to start a bitching session but "that is how Scannell has always done it" could be a reason Trinity has never been past a regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2012, 11:32:43 AM
Jack I have to disagree with you and agree with Ralph. Trinity has the SCAC #1 West seed wrapped up. To get through the SCAC tournament and the Regionals they HAVE TO develop their bullpen and get a good #3 & #4 established, and they also have to hit more consistently and execute their offense. Without this they will not move on. They lost the first game completely on errors, nothing more. They lost game two to lackadaisical play, and the bullpen. They were playing very well prior to being ranked number one and after this they have lost their edge. This was a wake up call for the team. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 07, 2012, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 07, 2012, 10:35:25 AM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 06:34:52 AM
Trinity deserved to lose this double header against a very mediocre Southwestern team. Why in the world would you throw your 2 best pitchers in a mid week game when you have a conference double header 3 days later? Trinity is good, but their pitching staff isnt that deep. Kudos to Southwestern.

Thank you for saying this first so I didn't have to.  I think it is totally irresponsible to throw your #1 and #2 in a mid-week series when you have conference coming up.  I am not here to start a bitching session but "that is how Scannell has always done it" could be a reason Trinity has never been past a regional.


This discussion about the HSU games and yesterday is why baseball can be so interesting.
TU was facing a staff with a combined ERA over 6.00.
The starters for SU had ERA's of over 6.00 and 7.00 for the season.
Trinity gets a total of 14 hits in the DH, gives up 4 unearned runs, and before the 9th inning rally in game 2, they scored just 5 runs in 15 innings.
HSU was  the stronger of the opponents this week.
TU is going to need better pitching after the top 2 and they need to hit better/score more runs.
Yesterday's games, in my view, are not one dimensional losses.  Pitching, hitting and defense didn't get the job done.
If that happened in Abilene, they lose 2 also.
In my view, these are games TU must win...they cannot pitch Klimesh and Lucero every inning.
Next week they have TLU and Hendrix so the same pitching decisions will need to be made.
Those choices are easier and subject to a lot less 2nd guessing when hitting and defense are getting the job done.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: motorman on April 07, 2012, 11:39:54 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 06, 2012, 01:18:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 04, 2012, 11:29:14 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 10:48:46 PM
I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?
I think that the East, Northeast and Midwest teams have less competition at the D-2 and NJCAA levels for talent than we have in the South and West, especially.  I believe that "D-2 and quality "NJCAA/D-1or D2" talent "falls" to D-3 up north.

Three high quality baseball conferences are the NJAC, the Little East and the WIAC. Those state schools have quality programs. It is probably harder for a northern D-2 school to have a quality baseball program than any other sport.  So talent that doesn't get a (partial baseball) scholarship down south, paying partial out-of-state tuition, can stay in Wisconsin, New Jersey or Connecticut and play great ball.   The season warms up in March thru May with collegiate ball, and they just play thru the summer in the wooden bat leagues.

Baseball is "king" in the south and southwest and west.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 06, 2012, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 05, 2012, 06:14:53 PM
LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.
I am not so sure about that.  If you asked around the D-III clubhouses on Ohio, you could probably find 2-3 players on each of the 21 D-III schools in the state who turned down a partial scholarship down south to play ball closer to home.  it doesn't take many players to make the difference in a team. 

Really good players do go down south.  At the D-III level, we are looking at a D-1 bench rider who will get 10-15% partial scholarship for minimal playing time, versus being an everyday player star in DIII.

Ralph, I know of no one here in Ohio turning down a partial scholarship down south to stay here and play at a D-3. My son was All Ohio and in the top 100 of the Buckeye Scout list for Ohio and never even got a phone call from a D-1 program. After he had committed to play for Matt Palm at Heidelberg, 2 MAC schools, Toledo and Akron wanted him to walk on, but he declined since he had given his word. He ended up getting hurt in Dec his freshman year and would have been written off by any D-1 but is now in the starting rotation at the Berg as a sophomore. I am especially glad he didn't go to Akron since the head coach resigned after what would have been my son's freshman year, no incoming coach is going to put any credence in his departed predecessor's walk ons.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 07, 2012, 12:17:11 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2012, 11:32:43 AM
Jack I have to disagree with you and agree with Ralph. Trinity has the SCAC #1 West seed wrapped up. To get through the SCAC tournament and the Regionals they HAVE TO develop their bullpen and get a good #3 & #4 established, and they also have to hit more consistently and execute their offense. Without this they will not move on. They lost the first game completely on errors, nothing more. They lost game two to lackadaisical play, and the bullpen. They were playing very well prior to being ranked number one and after this they have lost their edge. This was a wake up call for the team.

We can agree to disagree.  I am not trying to argue but I honestly do not get your logic on a few points-

1. How does Trinity have the #1 seed wrapped up???  A 2-game lead doesn't mean a whole lot right now and ask the SCAC about Hendrix back in '08 or '09.

2. I never mentioned one word about not developing a #3 and #4 starter, what I did say is that you need to throw your #1 and #2 in a conference series no matter what.  Trinity could lose every single non-conference game and win the SCAC and they go to a Regional.  I don't get the thought process of sacrificing your top guys against a non-conference team and throwing your #3 and #4 (which is developing them) in conference (and by this I mean starting them over your 1 and 2.  Obviously there will always be a need for a 3rd or 4th starter in conference).  Whats the difference of throwing your 3 and 4 and 'pen agaist HSU?  Either way those guys are getting work in.

I have been around this game long enough to have seen coaches outsmart themselves.  All too often there will be a coach who decides to throw a 3 or 4 in game 1 of a Regional our conference tourney (while they are the #1 seed) and it blows up in their face when they face the other #1.  If that happens, you are left to battle from the losers bracket where you have no margin of error.  Spin it any way you want but if you polish a turd, it's still a turd.

One serious question I have is why Millsaps isn't listed in the West standings?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 07, 2012, 12:32:10 PM
Millsaps is in the South Region, Jack.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 07, 2012, 01:03:47 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 07, 2012, 12:32:10 PM
Millsaps is in the South Region, Jack.

I realize they are in the south but I am also an idiot and didn't see them as an SCAC East team.  The D3 page has them in the SCAC West but I was looking at the SCAC home page, which has them correctly listed in the SCAC East.  I am a little slow this morning.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 07, 2012, 01:15:47 PM
Jack,
When Rose-Hulman and DePauw departed the SCAC and the conference added BSC and U of Dallas, the divisions were realigned.  Millsaps was moved out of the West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2012, 01:25:04 PM
The beauty of baseball is that we all get to second guess the coach and his decisions,- usually when something does not go his way. I don't really know, but I do know that there is a difference in pitching when on the road, in conference, and maybe these things played a part of his decision wanting to get some away exp for his pitchers. They also have a very structured throwing program there and they try to keep guys on a routine, so maybe he wanted to keep his younger guys on their routine, Klimesh and Lucero are more experienced and are more flexible. Maybe he just overlooked Southwestern. Certainly makes things more interesting, frankly I think it is good for them to be playing games that mean more, they were getting too lackadaisical and not playing with the fire they were earlier in the season. Give us something to chat about. ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 01:25:50 PM
Here is the Trinity schedule. 

3/24    vs. University of Dallas * •    W, 9-1    BX  (Klimesh)
3/24    vs. University of Dallas * •    W, 9-8    BX   (Speer)
3/25    vs. University of Dallas * •    W, 7-5    BX  (Lucero)
3/27    vs. Mary Hardin-Baylor •    W, 9-3    BX  (Barron, Bay winner, Klimesh 2 innings, Bogese)
4/3    at Hardin-Simmons •    L, 3-2    BX          (Kilmesh loser)
4/3    at Hardin-Simmons •    W, 5-1    BX RC     (Lucero winner)
4/6    at Southwestern * •    L, 6-2    BX          (Bentz loser; 1 earned run)
4/6    at Southwestern * •    L, 9-7    BX RC     (Speer loser)
4/7    at Southwestern * •    2:00 PM    V

That is a prudent use of the pitching staff.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2012, 01:36:00 PM
All top teams go thru a period of play bad against average or poor teams. I saw it many times over the past few years for a team the made regular trips to Appleton.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 07, 2012, 01:37:55 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 07, 2012, 01:03:47 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 07, 2012, 12:32:10 PM
Millsaps is in the South Region, Jack.

I realize they are in the south but I am also an idiot and didn't see them as an SCAC East team.  The D3 page has them in the SCAC West but I was looking at the SCAC home page, which has them correctly listed in the SCAC East.  I am a little slow this morning.

Sorry -- when Presto sets up our standings we tend to assume they know how the Presto conferences are set up. I'll get that changed.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

How in the world can you say that Trinity has the #1 seed wrapped up? They have a 3 game series with a team that is 1.5 games behind them now left.

I still throw my studs in conference, period. Throwing your studs for 2 innings to get some bullpen work in on Tuesday is completely different than setting yourself up to not be able to throw them in the first two games of a conference series.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 02:42:15 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

How in the world can you say that Trinity has the #1 seed wrapped up? They have a 3 game series with a team that is 1.5 games behind them now left.

I still throw my studs in conference, period. Throwing your studs for 2 innings to get some bullpen work in on Tuesday is completely different than setting yourself up to not be able to throw them in the first two games of a conference series.
Thanks for the comment.

Klimesh starts on 3/24.  The next conference start for him will be 13 days later. How much work do you want him to get?

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 01:25:50 PM
Here is the Trinity schedule. 

3/24    vs. University of Dallas * •    W, 9-1    BX  (Klimesh)
3/24    vs. University of Dallas * •    W, 9-8    BX   (Speer)
3/25    vs. University of Dallas * •    W, 7-5    BX  (Lucero)
3/27    vs. Mary Hardin-Baylor •    W, 9-3    BX  (Barron, Bay winner, Klimesh 2 innings, Bogese)
4/3    at Hardin-Simmons •    L, 3-2    BX          (Kilmesh loser 7 innings)
4/3    at Hardin-Simmons •    W, 5-1    BX RC     (Lucero winner)
4/6    at Southwestern * •    L, 6-2    BX          (Bentz loser; 1 earned run)
4/6    at Southwestern * •    L, 9-7    BX RC     (Speer loser)
4/7    at Southwestern * •    W 10-0 (8)              (Klimesh 7 innings)

That is a prudent use of the pitching staff.  (Starters are in bold.)
I am perfectly happy with that rotation.  For the sake of old time baseball discussion and second guessing, what rotation would you have used?  Please go to the Trinity stats to find a 6th starter is you need to.  Thanks for the response.   :)



Does he bring back Klimesh on 3 days rest and on a tight pitch count and then use him in the Saturday game next week?

I added this after your next comment had posted.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 02:49:16 PM
Why do you need 6 starters with 5 games? If Lucero and Klimesh throw on Tuesday, its for 2 innings. I start my number 4 and number 5 versus Hardin Simmons.

Would you defend McMurry Ralph for throwing their top two pitchers in a midweek game before playing Schreiner or Sul Ross?

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 03:00:11 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 02:49:16 PM
Why do you need 6 starters with 5 games? If Lucero and Klimesh throw on Tuesday, its for 2 innings. I start my number 4 and number 5 versus Hardin Simmons.

Would you defend McMurry Ralph for throwing their top two pitchers in a midweek game before playing Schreiner or Sul Ross?

I actually like the timing of the rotation.  I think that the better question is whether he thinks that he can maximize the wins with the rotation that he used.  I think that HSU is much tougher than Southwestern.  Southwestern is only 3-11 versus ASC schools this season.  My best anticipation for a Top 10 TU (and best team in the West) this week was a split at HSU and a 3-game sweep of Southwestern. I was surprised that TU could not beat HSU with Klimesh only giving up 1 earned run.

Does he bring back Klimesh on 3 days rest and on a tight pitch count and then use him in the Saturday game next week?

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 03:03:48 PM
You didnt answer my question about McMurry....

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: motorman on April 07, 2012, 11:39:54 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 06, 2012, 01:18:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 04, 2012, 11:29:14 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 10:48:46 PM
I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?
I think that the East, Northeast and Midwest teams have less competition at the D-2 and NJCAA levels for talent than we have in the South and West, especially.  I believe that "D-2 and quality "NJCAA/D-1or D2" talent "falls" to D-3 up north.

Three high quality baseball conferences are the NJAC, the Little East and the WIAC. Those state schools have quality programs. It is probably harder for a northern D-2 school to have a quality baseball program than any other sport.  So talent that doesn't get a (partial baseball) scholarship down south, paying partial out-of-state tuition, can stay in Wisconsin, New Jersey or Connecticut and play great ball.   The season warms up in March thru May with collegiate ball, and they just play thru the summer in the wooden bat leagues.

Baseball is "king" in the south and southwest and west.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 06, 2012, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 05, 2012, 06:14:53 PM
LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.
I am not so sure about that.  If you asked around the D-III clubhouses on Ohio, you could probably find 2-3 players on each of the 21 D-III schools in the state who turned down a partial scholarship down south to play ball closer to home.  it doesn't take many players to make the difference in a team. 

Really good players do go down south.  At the D-III level, we are looking at a D-1 bench rider who will get 10-15% partial scholarship for minimal playing time, versus being an everyday player star in DIII.

Ralph, I know of no one here in Ohio turning down a partial scholarship down south to stay here and play at a D-3. My son was All Ohio and in the top 100 of the Buckeye Scout list for Ohio and never even got a phone call from a D-1 program. After he had committed to play for Matt Palm at Heidelberg, 2 MAC schools, Toledo and Akron wanted him to walk on, but he declined since he had given his word. He ended up getting hurt in Dec his freshman year and would have been written off by any D-1 but is now in the starting rotation at the Berg as a sophomore. I am especially glad he didn't go to Akron since the head coach resigned after what would have been my son's freshman year, no incoming coach is going to put any credence in his departed predecessor's walk ons.
Thanks motorman.

I think that the reason that we don't have the depth at pitching in this part of the country is all of the pitching talent that goes to the 38 JUCO's that play baseball in Texas.

Those guys are trying to make it in the bigs, and they have not gotten the invitation to go to D-1.

At age 18 education can happen after your dream has been snuffed out.  You can get your associates while you are still on the radar of the scouts, probably play more games in the JUCO's than in the same time period at D-III, and not lose that window at age 18-19.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 07, 2012, 04:40:18 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

They couldn't beat Hardin-Simmons. :)

The most telling thing to me is that this supposed top 5 round draft pick got beat by Hardin-Simmons's like 6th best.

As for throwing your aces in a mid-week game where you know the other team doesn't have its best, it shows a lack of confidence that your down the line guys can get it done, and it seems that lack of confidence was shown to be well-placed by how they did against Southwestern.

But it's a complete insult to your conference opponent. And completely foolish to open yourself up to a greater chance of not winning your division.

Hopefully the selection committee remembers why this happened...because Trinity's coach doesn't think they're good enough to beat a mid-table ASC West team without trying to stack the deck.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 07, 2012, 04:40:18 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

They couldn't beat Hardin-Simmons. :)

The most telling thing to me is that this supposed top 5 round draft pick got beat by Hardin-Simmons's like 6th best.

As for throwing your aces in a mid-week game where you know the other team doesn't have its best, it shows a lack of confidence that your down the line guys can get it done, and it seems that lack of confidence was shown to be well-placed by how they did against Southwestern.

But it's a complete insult to your conference opponent. And completely foolish to open yourself up to a greater chance of not winning your division.

Hopefully the selection committee remembers why this happened...because Trinity's coach doesn't think they're good enough to beat a mid-table ASC West team without trying to stack the deck.

This is pretty much as I see it. I posted this up on Wednesday that I cant believe they would do this with a double header conference series on Friday. Im starting to question their pitching depth as Klimesh and Lucero have logged a ton of innings. I dont think they have the depth to come out of the loser's bracket in the West Region should they drop one early.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 07, 2012, 05:46:47 PM
Trinity started Klimesh today, who went seven innings leading the Tigers to a 10-0 run-rule victory thanks to a five-run outburst in the top of the eighth.

This makes you think that they'll start Lucero against TLU on Tuesday, start Ben for the first Saturday game at Hendrix, and Lucero would be able to pitch again for the closer on Sunday.     As dp says, that's getting to be a lot of work for those two guys. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 05:48:55 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 07, 2012, 04:40:18 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

They couldn't beat Hardin-Simmons. :)

The most telling thing to me is that this supposed top 5 round draft pick got beat by Hardin-Simmons's like 6th best.

As for throwing your aces in a mid-week game where you know the other team doesn't have its best, it shows a lack of confidence that your down the line guys can get it done, and it seems that lack of confidence was shown to be well-placed by how they did against Southwestern.

But it's a complete insult to your conference opponent. And completely foolish to open yourself up to a greater chance of not winning your division.

Hopefully the selection committee remembers why this happened...because Trinity's coach doesn't think they're good enough to beat a mid-table ASC West team without trying to stack the deck.

This is pretty much as I see it. I posted this up on Wednesday that I cant believe they would do this with a double header conference series on Friday. Im starting to question their pitching depth as Klimesh and Lucero have logged a ton of innings. I dont think they have the depth to come out of the loser's bracket in the West Region should they drop one early.
I agree with you about Trinity's pitching depth.

And that being said, I believe my best chance for Trinty to go 5-0 last week is for Klimesh and Lucero to face the tougher HSU and let my #3, #4 and #5 go against the #1, #2, #3 of a much weaker opponent.

My number 3 has to shut down their #1, and my offense and defense need to back him up.

I have a 2 game lead over Hendrix with the final 3-game series against Hendrix. I lead the Hendrix series 2 games to none. I have a 3-game series against 2-13 Austin College in the last weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 06:00:30 PM
You would never justify and defend Byington if he threw McMurry's #1 and #2 midweek for a full outing and they werent available for a weekend conference series (or it only left one of them available).

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 07, 2012, 06:36:20 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 07, 2012, 04:40:18 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

They couldn't beat Hardin-Simmons. :)

The most telling thing to me is that this supposed top 5 round draft pick got beat by Hardin-Simmons's like 6th best.

As for throwing your aces in a mid-week game where you know the other team doesn't have its best, it shows a lack of confidence that your down the line guys can get it done, and it seems that lack of confidence was shown to be well-placed by how they did against Southwestern.

But it's a complete insult to your conference opponent. And completely foolish to open yourself up to a greater chance of not winning your division.

Hopefully the selection committee remembers why this happened...because Trinity's coach doesn't think they're good enough to beat a mid-table ASC West team without trying to stack the deck.
There are two ways to get a bid. Win the tournament or Pool C. Trinity qualified for the tournament today and with the strong east this year, there isn't much of a difference between SCAC east top 3.

The other way is to get a pool C. To guarantee that, you need 6 losses or fewer. TU tried to keep it at that number by throwing their top 2 midweek. HSU is 15-14 and southwestern is 10-20. HSU appeared to be the better team so you throw your top guys then.

Once you qualify for the tourney, try and get the pool C bid. Don't be bitter bc it isn't conventional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 07, 2012, 09:16:10 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 04:16:46 PM
Thanks motorman.

I think that the reason that we don't have the depth at pitching in this part of the country is all of the pitching talent that goes to the 38 JUCO's that play baseball in Texas.

Those guys are trying to make it in the bigs, and they have not gotten the invitation to go to D-1.

At age 18 education can happen after your dream has been snuffed out.  You can get your associates while you are still on the radar of the scouts, probably play more games in the JUCO's than in the same time period at D-III, and not lose that window at age 18-19.

There are JUCOs in other states too, ya know. So I don't buy that being something that hurts Texas uniquely. I do think the reduction of possible games played in D-III is a harm, and said so at the time. Most people shouted me down for it, saying it was good for competition, fairness and the like.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 07, 2012, 09:41:34 PM
@dial

Thanks for that quick history lesson about TU not ever accomplishing JACK. I wasn't aware.

TU played 5 games last week and have two studs on the mounds. They can only pitch 3 games, which they did. What difference does it make if they threw against HSU or SU? Lucero doesn'harare an arm that bounces back and Klimesh does.

Sorry us Texas fans don't know how to play baseball like you do. Maybe one year we will figure it out. Maybe, just maybe we will find a way to get lucky and win a regional. Until then, congrats on being superior to us TU fans.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2012, 11:27:49 PM
Ralph,

Trinity has two good potential #3, 4 starters. Bentz got the L yesterday because of errors, he would be a #1 or 2 on a lot of teams, he has been used more as a late inning guy, anyone who has seen him pitch knows what I am talking about. Fink had one bad outing and otherwise has been solid. They have plenty of additional arms. They have been grooming one freshmen who has number 1 stuff, but has also had a few bad outings, but he is learning college pitching and is getting better, he had a no hitter through 4 yesterday. They have another freshmen who has been clocked in the low 90's that has been playing mostly in the field and has seen limited innings and has a 1.5 ERA and could pitch a lot more. They are working through some issues, which is what you want to do prior to getting to the tournament. 

People forget that TU took 2/3 from a very good hitting Centenary team with the bullpen. (Klimesh got the W in one after he came in to close a game and gave up a HR for the tie in the top of the 9th and TU came back and won it in the bottom) 

As Crash posted, sometimes teams get flat or go through a funky period, and Trinity actually has been a little flat for a couple of weeks. They got a wake up call yesterday and came out playing like a top team today.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 11:57:56 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 06:00:30 PM
You would never justify and defend Byington if he threw McMurry's #1 and #2 midweek for a full outing and they werent available for a weekend conference series (or it only left one of them available).

dp643, you flamed me for giving my reasons after I respectfully asked you how you would have used the TU staff if you had been coach.  I was not trying to be ridiculous about this. I wanted a good conversation about how you pitch to the schedule that TU had over the last 2 weeks.

I outlined what Coach Scannell had for a schedule and how he used his pitchers. I agreed with that and I would agree with a similar use of McMurry pitchers with the same abilities, timing and opponents.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 08, 2012, 12:39:53 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on April 07, 2012, 09:41:34 PM
@dial

Thanks for that quick history lesson about TU not ever accomplishing JACK. I wasn't aware.

Well I was confused when you apparently thought there was something about which one should be bitter re: Trinity baseball.

TU played 5 games last week and have two studs on the mounds. They can only pitch 3 games, which they did.

Not really true, unless you're talking about complete games.

What difference does it make if they threw against HSU or SU? Lucero doesn't har an arm that bounces back and Klimesh does.

I would think the difference would be obvious. You probably wouldn't have lost two conference games and you wouldn't have put yourself behind the power curve on pitching for those games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 08, 2012, 12:49:36 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2012, 11:02:48 PM
Heaven you are an ignorant bully. You have no idea what you are talking about; if you had some intelligent comments mixed with your spite it might be interesting, but it is quite clear you are not capable of rational thought. All you do on this site is spew hatred mixed in with ignorant ravings. Were you beat as a child? I imagine you were a also schoolyard bully as a child also. When you develop the ability to think and post something rational come on back, but until then go beat up some one else. I am not sure if this site has an "ignore button", but I am just going to ignore you from now on.

I'm sorry you are unable to debate me with facts and ideas and have to resort to this.

If you want examples of how breaking with conventional pitching strategy worked, check out the 1997 and 1999 Mideast regionals.

I am 100% rational, and that's why you don't like me. I don't make any attempt to cowtow or sugarcoat for the benefit of popularity because it's foolish to care. This is a message board, not a fraternity mixer. I'm not trying to get into a club. So I don't care if I'm the guy that takes the proverbial bullet for saying what others are thinking and what is rational and factual.

The fact is that Scannell took a foolish chance and now has completely unnecessarily put his team at risk. Winning 3 vs. Southwestern and losing 2 vs. HSU would have been a preferable result to what actually happened.

I love how the Lone Star lovers are trying to make this seem like spite or bitterness now when none of their teams have ever accomplished anything that would inspire either. It's even funnier that the one program that actually has won a regional from the state doesn't have a legion of sunshine pumpers on this board. Maybe you Tigger lovers could learn from them.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2012, 01:28:05 AM
ASC - Concordia-TX(24-6) Texas-Tyler(22-7)
SCAC - Trinity-TX(25-6)
SCIAC - La Verne(22-10)
NWC - Pacific (16-9)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 08, 2012, 01:32:40 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2012, 01:28:05 AM
ASC - Concordia-TX(24-6) Texas-Tyler(22-7)
SCAC - Trinity-TX(25-6)
SCIAC - La Verne(22-10)
NWC - Pacific (16-9)

If you were to rank the region how would you go? CUA 1, Pacific 2, then UTT or Trinity 3/4, then some order of Tx Lu, Linfield, Whitworth, UTD, La Verne after that?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 08, 2012, 08:41:12 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2012, 01:28:05 AM
ASC - Concordia-TX(24-6) Texas-Tyler(22-7)
SCAC - Trinity-TX(25-6)
SCIAC - La Verne(22-10)
NWC - Pacific (16-9)
1) CTX
2) Trinty TX
3) Pacific
4) UTD (They took 2 of 3 from UTT and have played a tougher schedule)
5) SCAIC winner (ULV?  What a mish-mash?)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on April 08, 2012, 11:45:03 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 11:57:56 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 06:00:30 PM
You would never justify and defend Byington if he threw McMurry's #1 and #2 midweek for a full outing and they werent available for a weekend conference series (or it only left one of them available).

dp643, you flamed me for giving my reasons after I respectfully asked you how you would have used the TU staff if you had been coach.  I was not trying to be ridiculous about this. I wanted a good conversation about how you pitch to the schedule that TU had over the last 2 weeks.

I outlined what Coach Scannell had for a schedule and how he used his pitchers. I agreed with that and I would agree with a similar use of McMurry pitchers with the same abilities, timing and opponents.

I told you exactly what I would do. I would pitch Klimesh and Lucero at most 2 innings, so they can get some work, and then have them both available for the conference series. You could start either in each game vs HSU and go 2 innings, or you could have each of them close vs HSU for two innings. Either way, I have them 100% ready to go for a CONFERENCE series.

Now can you answer my question on how you would react if Byington used his #1 and #2 in a midweek series before a conference weekend?

Coach Scannell has done this for years, and he has gotten away with it for years. Every single year we faced Trinity's big guns in a mid week series. This year it finally backfired, and he (and Trinity fans for that matter) should be able to take the scrutiny that comes with it. When you are ranked #1 in the country you get placed under a microscope. This time Scannell played with fire, and got burned.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 08, 2012, 12:30:11 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 08, 2012, 08:41:12 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2012, 01:28:05 AM
ASC - Concordia-TX(24-6) Texas-Tyler(22-7)
SCAC - Trinity-TX(25-6)
SCIAC - La Verne(22-10)
NWC - Pacific (16-9)
1) CTX
2) Trinty TX
3) Pacific
4) UTD (They took 2 of 3 from UTT and have played a tougher schedule)
5) SCAIC winner (ULV?  What a mish-mash?)

I'm inclined to give Pacific a pass for their start because I really don't think many D-III teams would fare well playing 7 games against D-II teams all on the road in Hawaii in a 4 day period.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 08, 2012, 02:31:59 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 08, 2012, 11:45:03 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 11:57:56 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 06:00:30 PM
You would never justify and defend Byington if he threw McMurry's #1 and #2 midweek for a full outing and they werent available for a weekend conference series (or it only left one of them available).

dp643, you flamed me for giving my reasons after I respectfully asked you how you would have used the TU staff if you had been coach.  I was not trying to be ridiculous about this. I wanted a good conversation about how you pitch to the schedule that TU had over the last 2 weeks.

I outlined what Coach Scannell had for a schedule and how he used his pitchers. I agreed with that and I would agree with a similar use of McMurry pitchers with the same abilities, timing and opponents.


Coach Scannell has done this for years, and he has gotten away with it for years. Every single year we faced Trinity's big guns in a mid week series. This year it finally backfired, and he (and Trinity fans for that matter) should be able to take the scrutiny that comes with it. When you are ranked #1 in the country you get placed under a microscope. This time Scannell played with fire, and got burned.

dp,
It comes across that you and forheaven are the penultimate second guessers.
By your own words, Coach Scannell has done this "for years, and he has gotten away with it for years."
Actually, he has done this for years and "his players" have responded to each challenge and gotten the job done more often than not.
If you and forheaven want to continue to show, by second guessing 13 years of averaging 30 wins per year by one week where you call his coaching "foolish," that probably reflects more on the poster making the comments than the strategy.
Baseball is a game of failure.
If, as you say, Coach Scannell has done this for years and it has been successful for years, then he  he is a very fine coach who knows his players, believes in his players and challenges them to succeed in each game. In a game of "failure," constant success with the same strategy over many years is proof of quality in baseball, not proof of being "foolish."
If 4 games this past week makes him "foolish" in your eyes and those of forheaven, as contrasted your readily acknowledged years of success with this approach, the concession coupled with your "ah hah,"  does, in my view, say far more about you and forheaven stretching and "flaming" in your efforts to get  to flawed and "foolish" conclusions.
You and forheaven are beating the pitching choices to a pulp to try and support some position you completely undermined by acknowledging it has worked for years.
The plain and obvious fact is they didn't hit and didn't pick it to support whatever pitcher was on the mound in whichever game.
If they swing the bats and field the ball, they probably win all 5 this week, even with the challenges of Tuesday travel.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 08, 2012, 05:03:51 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 08, 2012, 11:45:03 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 11:57:56 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 06:00:30 PM
You would never justify and defend Byington if he threw McMurry's #1 and #2 midweek for a full outing and they werent available for a weekend conference series (or it only left one of them available).

dp643, you flamed me for giving my reasons after I respectfully asked you how you would have used the TU staff if you had been coach.  I was not trying to be ridiculous about this. I wanted a good conversation about how you pitch to the schedule that TU had over the last 2 weeks.

I outlined what Coach Scannell had for a schedule and how he used his pitchers. I agreed with that and I would agree with a similar use of McMurry pitchers with the same abilities, timing and opponents.

I told you exactly what I would do. I would pitch Klimesh and Lucero at most 2 innings, so they can get some work, and then have them both available for the conference series. You could start either in each game vs HSU and go 2 innings, or you could have each of them close vs HSU for two innings. Either way, I have them 100% ready to go for a CONFERENCE series.

Now can you answer my question on how you would react if Byington used his #1 and #2 in a midweek series before a conference weekend?

Coach Scannell has done this for years, and he has gotten away with it for years. Every single year we faced Trinity's big guns in a mid week series. This year it finally backfired, and he (and Trinity fans for that matter) should be able to take the scrutiny that comes with it. When you are ranked #1 in the country you get placed under a microscope. This time Scannell played with fire, and got burned.

Same here. I might have gone a little longer than 2 IP with Klimesh and Lucero...should be able to be on a 50 pitch count and be fine for 3 days later even with an arm that doesn't bounce back well. If they're on that could be 3-4 innings.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 08, 2012, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 08, 2012, 02:31:59 PM

dp,
It comes across that you and forheaven are the penultimate second guessers.

Based on this sentence, it doesn't seem like you know what penutimate means. I'm not second guessing anything. I don't spend every day on this board, particularly not this one because of the inflated senses of themselves that some fans seem to have that annoy me and to which I choose not to expose myself on a daily basis. I don't care if it works or not, it's a bad idea because you're choosing to throw your second-rate pitching against the other guys' top pitchers in a game that's more important to your season. Not brain surgery.

If you and forheaven want to continue to show, by second guessing 13 years of averaging 30 wins per year by one week where you call his coaching "foolish," that probably reflects more on the poster making the comments than the strategy.

The above makes a correlation out of things that are completely uncorrelated. Winning baseball games in the past has no correlation to whether or not a strategy maximizes a team's chances for success. I guess if you define success as winning a midweek, mid-season game, then sure. Success it is. I don't think that's a preseason goal for most programs.

You and forheaven are beating the pitching choices to a pulp to try and support some position you completely undermined by acknowledging it has worked for years.

Don't put words in my mouth by attributing them to someone else and using my name in the same sentence. IMO, it hasn't worked unless you think there's been no season that Trinity's ever been good enough to win a regional. The object of the season for a program of prominence isn't to win midweek games against teams throwing their #6 arm, it's to prepare and build for success in the postseason.

If they swing the bats and field the ball, they probably win all 5 this week, even with the challenges of Tuesday travel.

I thought they only played four.

Tue Apr. 10    Texas Lutheran          7:00 PM   Live stats Video
Sat Apr. 14    at Hendrix *          1:00 PM   
    at Hendrix *          4:00 PM   
Sun Apr. 15    at Hendrix *

I guess I'm just ignorant and don't know what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 08, 2012, 06:17:32 PM
I have to laugh at all of the second guessing and thinking for one minute the coaching staff or any of the players at Trinity (or any other team for that matter) give a hoot about the number one ranking right now. Under a microscope... LOL...like they are paying attention to anything other than what is going on with their players and team? They know that the only time the number one ranking means anything is at the end of the season. TU's losses have had very little to do with who was on the mound and everything with poor hitting and fielding and coming out a flat. They had a good wake up call this week that will help them going forward IMO and they came out like they should have on Sat.  The most important thing for them (or any other team) is to have all aspects of their game in order come season's end. Playing well they can beat anyone and when not they can lose to anyone. The SCAC tournament is going to be a lot of fun with some pretty good baseball.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on April 08, 2012, 06:27:23 PM
Look, I have a very high level of respect for Coach Scannell, the program, and his coaching ability. I have never once called him a foolish coach, so I am not too sure where you got that.

I have, and will always question his decision to use his studs mid week. I have done that ever since I have been around the d3 scene. I can disagree with a coaching decision he makes without thinking hes a foolish coach. Different coach's have different philosophies in every aspect of the game. I just think throwing your number 3 vs Chapman's number 1, and throwing your studs in a midweek game will open yourself up to some definite scrutiny. I believe its justified. I have been as consistent as anyone on this board in my disagreement with this decision, and have done so multiple times this season. So, I dont have any idea why you are calling me a second guesser.

I also believe some of the posters that are trying to justify the decision would totally disagree if it was their team implementing it. But I digress.

Now as far as Trinity goes, and regardless of how the pitching is used the rest of the regular season, I still believe Klimesh and Lucero are starting to pile up innings, and Trinity better find a couple of more arms if they want to make a deep run. I think we can all agree on that.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 08, 2012, 08:28:08 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 08, 2012, 12:30:11 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 08, 2012, 08:41:12 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2012, 01:28:05 AM
ASC - Concordia-TX(24-6) Texas-Tyler(22-7)
SCAC - Trinity-TX(25-6)
SCIAC - La Verne(22-10)
NWC - Pacific (16-9)
1) CTX
2) Trinty TX
3) Pacific
4) UTD (They took 2 of 3 from UTT and have played a tougher schedule)
5) SCAIC winner (ULV?  What a mish-mash?)

I'm inclined to give Pacific a pass for their start because I really don't think many D-III teams would fare well playing 7 games against D-II teams all on the road in Hawaii in a 4 day period.


You also have to be aware that, for some reason (weather, etc.), Pacific has played 14 of 15 league games at home so far. But they do have to go to Whitworth and PLU in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 08, 2012, 09:10:20 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 08, 2012, 08:28:08 PM

You also have to be aware that, for some reason (weather, etc.), Pacific has played 14 of 15 league games at home so far. But they do have to go to Whitworth and PLU in the coming weeks.

Good on them for maintaining a playable field. :)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 08, 2012, 09:51:00 PM
Good post dp.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on April 09, 2012, 12:06:59 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on April 07, 2012, 06:36:20 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 07, 2012, 04:40:18 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

They couldn't beat Hardin-Simmons. :)

The most telling thing to me is that this supposed top 5 round draft pick got beat by Hardin-Simmons's like 6th best.

As for throwing your aces in a mid-week game where you know the other team doesn't have its best, it shows a lack of confidence that your down the line guys can get it done, and it seems that lack of confidence was shown to be well-placed by how they did against Southwestern.

But it's a complete insult to your conference opponent. And completely foolish to open yourself up to a greater chance of not winning your division.

Hopefully the selection committee remembers why this happened...because Trinity's coach doesn't think they're good enough to beat a mid-table ASC West team without trying to stack the deck.
There are two ways to get a bid. Win the tournament or Pool C. Trinity qualified for the tournament today and with the strong east this year, there isn't much of a difference between SCAC east top 3.

The other way is to get a pool C. To guarantee that, you need 6 losses or fewer. TU tried to keep it at that number by throwing their top 2 midweek. HSU is 15-14 and southwestern is 10-20. HSU appeared to be the better team so you throw your top guys then.

Once you qualify for the tourney, try and get the pool C bid. Don't be bitter bc it isn't conventional.

Tigerfan (or anyone else) -

Can you clarify how the SCAC Tournament works in deciding post season play? (I assume the winner receives an automatic bid - is that correct?)
More specifically, how many teams qualify for the tournament? 
If the winner is from the East division, are they assigned to the South Regional? 
If the winner is from the West division, are they assigned to the West Regional? 

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 09, 2012, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 08, 2012, 08:41:12 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2012, 01:28:05 AM
ASC - Concordia-TX(24-6) Texas-Tyler(22-7)
SCAC - Trinity-TX(25-6)
SCIAC - La Verne(22-10)
NWC - Pacific (16-9)
1) CTX
2) Trinty TX
3) Pacific
4) UTD (They took 2 of 3 from UTT and have played a tougher schedule)
5) SCAIC winner (ULV?  What a mish-mash?)
CDD3 Regional Rankings
1) Trinity-TX (SCAC)
2) Concordia-TX(ASC)
3) Pacific(NWC)
4) Texas-Dallas(ASC)
5) Texas-Tyler(ASC)
6) La Verne(SCIAC)

The west will be a 6 team regional like recent years in my opinion. I see the SCIAC getting only 1 bid. Same for NWC...3 teams from Texas and 1 out of region team will get 6th bid IMO.

Also 30 wins does not get you a automatic bid. Only winning your conference(SCIAC, NWC) or your conference tourney(SCAC, ASC) gets the Auomatic Pool A bid to the Regionals. A few years back Pac Lu lost the conference title in the NWC and with 30 wins did not get a Pool C bid and stayed home for the playoffs due to their weak schedule(SOS, OWP, OOWP numbers). 

No Chapman in 2012. Linfield may also miss the regionals in 2012. Both face off for a 4 game series this weekend if the rain dont wash out games in SoCal.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2012, 12:16:21 AM
Quote from: dp643 on April 08, 2012, 11:45:03 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2012, 11:57:56 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 07, 2012, 06:00:30 PM
You would never justify and defend Byington if he threw McMurry's #1 and #2 midweek for a full outing and they werent available for a weekend conference series (or it only left one of them available).

dp643, you flamed me for giving my reasons after I respectfully asked you how you would have used the TU staff if you had been coach.  I was not trying to be ridiculous about this. I wanted a good conversation about how you pitch to the schedule that TU had over the last 2 weeks.

I outlined what Coach Scannell had for a schedule and how he used his pitchers. I agreed with that and I would agree with a similar use of McMurry pitchers with the same abilities, timing and opponents.

I told you exactly what I would do. I would pitch Klimesh and Lucero at most 2 innings, so they can get some work, and then have them both available for the conference series. You could start either in each game vs HSU and go 2 innings, or you could have each of them close vs HSU for two innings. Either way, I have them 100% ready to go for a CONFERENCE series.

Now can you answer my question on how you would react if Byington used his #1 and #2 in a midweek series before a conference weekend?

Coach Scannell has done this for years, and he has gotten away with it for years. Every single year we faced Trinity's big guns in a mid week series. This year it finally backfired, and he (and Trinity fans for that matter) should be able to take the scrutiny that comes with it. When you are ranked #1 in the country you get placed under a microscope. This time Scannell played with fire, and got burned.
If Byington:

has a 4 game lead over the second place team
is playing stonger in-region opponent in the midweek game than the conference opponent in the weekend series
is coming off a weekend with an open date
has not started my #1 in 10 days  and #1 has only had 2 innings of work (3 days earlier) in those 10 days
and my #2 has not pitched in 9 days
and needs to get some good innings from #3 and #4 in a game that "counts" 3 days later,
and has the chance to use my stronger #1 arm on pitch count in Game #2 on Saturday.

I think that this is the best chance to go 5-0 that week.

I tell him to do it the way that Scannell did.



And yes, if my #3 and #4 cannot beat Southwestern's #1 and #2, then I am in trouble in Games #3 and #4 in the Regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on April 09, 2012, 08:22:16 AM
Its a wonderful game isnt it? So many different ways and approaches to do things.

108 - What is the deal with Fink? Is he injured? He hasnt thrown in a while.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 09, 2012, 08:29:35 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on April 09, 2012, 12:06:59 AM


Tigerfan (or anyone else) -

Can you clarify how the SCAC Tournament works in deciding post season play? (I assume the winner receives an automatic bid - is that correct?)
More specifically, how many teams qualify for the tournament? 
If the winner is from the East division, are they assigned to the South Regional? 
If the winner is from the West division, are they assigned to the West Regional?
Winner get the Pool A bid.
There are 6 teams, 3 from each side.  #1Seed from West plays 3#Seed from East, 2 v 2, etc.  After that, it is your typical 6 team bracket.  Last year, the winner of the #1E v #3W played the loser of the 2 v 2 game, so this year that should flip and the winner of #1W v #3E will play the loser of the 2 v 2.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on April 09, 2012, 09:50:59 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on April 09, 2012, 08:29:35 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on April 09, 2012, 12:06:59 AM


Tigerfan (or anyone else) -

Can you clarify how the SCAC Tournament works in deciding post season play? (I assume the winner receives an automatic bid - is that correct?)
More specifically, how many teams qualify for the tournament? 
If the winner is from the East division, are they assigned to the South Regional? 
If the winner is from the West division, are they assigned to the West Regional?
Winner get the Pool A bid.
There are 6 teams, 3 from each side.  #1Seed from West plays 3#Seed from East, 2 v 2, etc.  After that, it is your typical 6 team bracket.  Last year, the winner of the #1E v #3W played the loser of the 2 v 2 game, so this year that should flip and the winner of #1W v #3E will play the loser of the 2 v 2.

Thanks for the clarification! 
One other question . . . what regional is the "pool A" winner assigned to? 
If the winner is from the East division, are they assigned to the South Regional?  And if the winner is from the West division, are they assigned to the West Regional?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 09, 2012, 10:05:02 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on April 09, 2012, 09:50:59 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on April 09, 2012, 08:29:35 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on April 09, 2012, 12:06:59 AM


Tigerfan (or anyone else) -

Can you clarify how the SCAC Tournament works in deciding post season play? (I assume the winner receives an automatic bid - is that correct?)
More specifically, how many teams qualify for the tournament? 
If the winner is from the East division, are they assigned to the South Regional? 
If the winner is from the West division, are they assigned to the West Regional?
Winner get the Pool A bid.
There are 6 teams, 3 from each side.  #1Seed from West plays 3#Seed from East, 2 v 2, etc.  After that, it is your typical 6 team bracket.  Last year, the winner of the #1E v #3W played the loser of the 2 v 2 game, so this year that should flip and the winner of #1W v #3E will play the loser of the 2 v 2.

Thanks for the clarification! 
One other question . . . what regional is the "pool A" winner assigned to? 
If the winner is from the East division, are they assigned to the South Regional?  And if the winner is from the West division, are they assigned to the West Regional?
Based on how the teams are aligned now, I would think that would be the case.  IN the past, when Millsaps was part of the SCAC West, they still went to the South regional.  All of the west teams are part of the west region and the east teams are all part of the south region, i think.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 09, 2012, 10:16:34 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on April 09, 2012, 09:50:59 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on April 09, 2012, 08:29:35 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on April 09, 2012, 12:06:59 AM


Tigerfan (or anyone else) -

Can you clarify how the SCAC Tournament works in deciding post season play? (I assume the winner receives an automatic bid - is that correct?)
More specifically, how many teams qualify for the tournament? 
If the winner is from the East division, are they assigned to the South Regional? 
If the winner is from the West division, are they assigned to the West Regional?
Winner get the Pool A bid.
There are 6 teams, 3 from each side.  #1Seed from West plays 3#Seed from East, 2 v 2, etc.  After that, it is your typical 6 team bracket.  Last year, the winner of the #1E v #3W played the loser of the 2 v 2 game, so this year that should flip and the winner of #1W v #3E will play the loser of the 2 v 2.

Thanks for the clarification! 
One other question . . . what regional is the "pool A" winner assigned to? 
If the winner is from the East division, are they assigned to the South Regional?  And if the winner is from the West division, are they assigned to the West Regional?

It's not as automatic as you make it sound but that would be the usual setup. But if there are not six West teams that qualify for the NCAA Tournament, then they would have to pull in teams from elsewhere and a South Region SCAC winner is certainly a possibility.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 09, 2012, 11:32:05 AM
Ralph – nice post. I might have considered doing what dp suggested, but most of us are 1,500 miles away and really have no idea what is going on.

dp, I was wondering the same thing about Fink. I know that one of their pitchers is coming off Tommy John surgery and I am not sure which one. I also know that Scannell has a way of picking out promising freshmen and getting them in early and developing them over some upper classmen, he might be doing that and getting some playing time early for a couple of kids he thinks will be contributors later. By anyone's measure (except for maybe one) this has been one of the more successful DIII programs in the country, so he has a method to his madness. If he is not injured I would expect to see him this week.

I see that Birmingham is rolling along so the SCAC tournament will be interesting. The Hendrix series is also going to be lots of fun to watch. I do know that TU plans on webcasting it.

I do have a question regarding the whole webcasting thing. Why don't more programs do what TU does and take their gear with them on the road? I did not realize that TU was going to webcast the Southwestern series and watched part of the games on Friday with theirs and picked up the Sat game with the TU set up and they have much better quality than I have seen from some of the other "commercial" programs. Is there a reason for this?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 09, 2012, 11:56:55 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 06, 2012, 01:18:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 04, 2012, 11:29:14 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 10:48:46 PM
I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?
I think that the East, Northeast and Midwest teams have less competition at the D-2 and NJCAA levels for talent than we have in the South and West, especially.  I believe that "D-2 and quality "NJCAA/D-1or D2" talent "falls" to D-3 up north.

Three high quality baseball conferences are the NJAC, the Little East and the WIAC. Those state schools have quality programs. It is probably harder for a northern D-2 school to have a quality baseball program than any other sport.  So talent that doesn't get a (partial baseball) scholarship down south, paying partial out-of-state tuition, can stay in Wisconsin, New Jersey or Connecticut and play great ball.   The season warms up in March thru May with collegiate ball, and they just play thru the summer in the wooden bat leagues.

Baseball is "king" in the south and southwest and west.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 06, 2012, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 05, 2012, 06:14:53 PM
LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.
I am not so sure about that.  If you asked around the D-III clubhouses on Ohio, you could probably find 2-3 players on each of the 21 D-III schools in the state who turned down a partial scholarship down south to play ball closer to home.  it doesn't take many players to make the difference in a team. 

Really good players do go down south.  At the D-III level, we are looking at a D-1 bench rider who will get 10-15% partial scholarship for minimal playing time, versus being an everyday player star in DIII.

Ralph Most of those players that would get a partial scholarship down south could easily get a walk on spot to any state school in Ohio, or maybe an equal scholarship. Most of the Top schools in Ohio are all looking for those kids that slipped through the cracks or didn't project into a D1 program but may have borderline D1 talent. Same as the California schools. Some kids go to D3 because it is the best fit size wise and academically. At our High School we have seen quite a few kids walk on to D1's up here and even down south but after a year they are done. I don't know if they chose to end their career or if the program decided that they were no longer needed, but the kids that go D3 usually play for 4 years.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 09, 2012, 01:54:25 PM
108-

Fink had TJ surgery his freshman year (I believe he was originally slotted for San Diego State). Bogese had TJ last year.

Fink throws so hard he has allways had a tendancy to get a "hot elbow" which I believe is the case this year.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 09, 2012, 02:19:04 PM
San Diego State.... well that was quite an upgrade....academically. (and probably baseball, but that could start a whole nother' argument at least on Rivals....)

I heard he was sidelined and is cleared to throw now.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 09, 2012, 06:25:41 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on April 09, 2012, 11:56:55 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 06, 2012, 01:18:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 04, 2012, 11:29:14 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 10:48:46 PM
I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?
I think that the East, Northeast and Midwest teams have less competition at the D-2 and NJCAA levels for talent than we have in the South and West, especially.  I believe that "D-2 and quality "NJCAA/D-1or D2" talent "falls" to D-3 up north.

Three high quality baseball conferences are the NJAC, the Little East and the WIAC. Those state schools have quality programs. It is probably harder for a northern D-2 school to have a quality baseball program than any other sport.  So talent that doesn't get a (partial baseball) scholarship down south, paying partial out-of-state tuition, can stay in Wisconsin, New Jersey or Connecticut and play great ball.   The season warms up in March thru May with collegiate ball, and they just play thru the summer in the wooden bat leagues.

Baseball is "king" in the south and southwest and west.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 06, 2012, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 05, 2012, 06:14:53 PM
LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.
I am not so sure about that.  If you asked around the D-III clubhouses on Ohio, you could probably find 2-3 players on each of the 21 D-III schools in the state who turned down a partial scholarship down south to play ball closer to home.  it doesn't take many players to make the difference in a team. 

Really good players do go down south.  At the D-III level, we are looking at a D-1 bench rider who will get 10-15% partial scholarship for minimal playing time, versus being an everyday player star in DIII.

Ralph Most of those players that would get a partial scholarship down south could easily get a walk on spot to any state school in Ohio, or maybe an equal scholarship. Most of the Top schools in Ohio are all looking for those kids that slipped through the cracks or didn't project into a D1 program but may have borderline D1 talent. Same as the California schools. Some kids go to D3 because it is the best fit size wise and academically. At our High School we have seen quite a few kids walk on to D1's up here and even down south but after a year they are done. I don't know if they chose to end their career or if the program decided that they were no longer needed, but the kids that go D3 usually play for 4 years.
I disagree. One example is 14 incoming Freshman only 4 made it to their senior year in a well known program in SoCal. 3 were starters/1 backup. This is about the same year in and year out for this program.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2012, 07:29:45 PM
Quote from: dp643 on April 09, 2012, 08:22:16 AM
Its a wonderful game isnt it? So many different ways and approaches to do things.

108 - What is the deal with Fink? Is he injured? He hasnt thrown in a while.
Yes!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 09, 2012, 11:46:29 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 09, 2012, 02:19:04 PM
San Diego State.... well that was quite an upgrade....academically. (and probably baseball, but that could start a whole nother' argument at least on Rivals....)

Why the smack on SDSU, the student athletes who play there and Coach Tony Gwynn?  My son plays at a school where the middle 50% of  the SAT is 2200, but compared to Harvard and Stanford that sucks, so everything is relative.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 10, 2012, 12:05:36 AM
Not a big deal just surprised me that he went from SDSU to TU. Quite a jump that's all. My son has two good friends playing on SDSU.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 10, 2012, 10:57:52 AM
The other funny thing Whatagame was that I was watching the video feed from SDSU and USD last night. There were three freshmen in that game that my son played with and knows pretty well. For those who have not seen the SDSU internet video feed it is amazing, as good as many live TV events.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 10, 2012, 11:56:26 AM
It is exciting isn't it Stitches to follow your kid's buddies going way back to Little League, who are now playing the college game.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 10, 2012, 11:59:25 AM
Trinity goes 2-3 and falls to #4 in the country. 

Concordia Austin 11
Linfield 19
UT Tyler 22

Receiving Votes
Pacific
La Verne
UT Dallas
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 10, 2012, 05:16:31 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on April 10, 2012, 11:59:25 AM
Trinity goes 2-3 and falls to #4 in the country. 

Concordia Austin 11
Linfield 19
UT Tyler 22

Receiving Votes
Pacific
La Verne
UT Dallas

Would put a lot of money on the regional rankings not being in that order.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 10, 2012, 05:19:37 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 09, 2012, 06:25:41 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on April 09, 2012, 11:56:55 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 06, 2012, 01:18:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 04, 2012, 11:29:14 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 04, 2012, 10:48:46 PM
I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?
I think that the East, Northeast and Midwest teams have less competition at the D-2 and NJCAA levels for talent than we have in the South and West, especially.  I believe that "D-2 and quality "NJCAA/D-1or D2" talent "falls" to D-3 up north.

Three high quality baseball conferences are the NJAC, the Little East and the WIAC. Those state schools have quality programs. It is probably harder for a northern D-2 school to have a quality baseball program than any other sport.  So talent that doesn't get a (partial baseball) scholarship down south, paying partial out-of-state tuition, can stay in Wisconsin, New Jersey or Connecticut and play great ball.   The season warms up in March thru May with collegiate ball, and they just play thru the summer in the wooden bat leagues.

Baseball is "king" in the south and southwest and west.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 06, 2012, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 05, 2012, 06:14:53 PM
LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.
I am not so sure about that.  If you asked around the D-III clubhouses on Ohio, you could probably find 2-3 players on each of the 21 D-III schools in the state who turned down a partial scholarship down south to play ball closer to home.  it doesn't take many players to make the difference in a team. 

Really good players do go down south.  At the D-III level, we are looking at a D-1 bench rider who will get 10-15% partial scholarship for minimal playing time, versus being an everyday player star in DIII.

Ralph Most of those players that would get a partial scholarship down south could easily get a walk on spot to any state school in Ohio, or maybe an equal scholarship. Most of the Top schools in Ohio are all looking for those kids that slipped through the cracks or didn't project into a D1 program but may have borderline D1 talent. Same as the California schools. Some kids go to D3 because it is the best fit size wise and academically. At our High School we have seen quite a few kids walk on to D1's up here and even down south but after a year they are done. I don't know if they chose to end their career or if the program decided that they were no longer needed, but the kids that go D3 usually play for 4 years.
I disagree. One example is 14 incoming Freshman only 4 made it to their senior year in a well known program in SoCal. 3 were starters/1 backup. This is about the same year in and year out for this program.
Sorry I was not clearer, I was only talking about the population I know about. I was talking about those kids who graduated from our High school, and went on to play baseball.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 10, 2012, 06:04:36 PM
The other side of a successful program is how well the coach helps the student-athlete navigate the waters in which the kid finally sees just how good/marginal a collegiate athlete that his/her skills allow him/her to be.  If the coach validates that person for the effort and the talents that are required for someone who will "turn pro in life", well then the absence of that person's name on the roster 4-years later is mitigated by the contribution that that experience had on the student-athlete.

Plenty of parents ask the student-athlete to reassess the money being spent at that time.  If transferring to a non-D3baseball school permits the student-athlete to graduate in a timely fashion, then that student-athlete has had a winning experience.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 10, 2012, 06:48:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 10, 2012, 06:04:36 PM
The other side of a successful program is how well the coach helps the student-athlete navigate the waters in which the kid finally sees just how good/marginal a collegiate athlete that his/her skills allow him/her to be.  If the coach validates that person for the effort and the talents that are required for someone who will "turn pro in life", well then the absence of that person's name on the roster 4-years later is mitigated by the contribution that that experience had on the student-athlete.

Plenty of parents ask the student-athlete to reassess the money being spent at that time.  If transferring to a non-D3baseball school permits the student-athlete to graduate in a timely fashion, then that student-athlete has had a winning experience.

Ralph,
What a wonderful summary and assessment of college and baseball and college baseball!
Could be just me but it seems so many parents of HS players have invested so many $$$$ in showcases, travel baseball, lessons and the like, that the expectations for college and baseball are not realistic.  When the talent on the field at the best levels of competition is not what it was before college, everyone is blamed and responsible, when it really is pretty simple: the level of talent, performance and production isn't enough to get on the field.
While we don't have exposure to a vast array of programs, the ones we saw over a 4-5 year period had some truly wonderful coaches who achieved very well on helping the student-athlete navigate the waters of transition to college/adulthood, freedom combined with the demands of college athletics and baseball.
There are a small number of coaches at the D3 level who not only do that, they also take the good player and make him an excellent collegiate athlete/get drafted and "turn pro in baseball."
In the end, though, baseball ends for them too.
As you say, the best are the student/athlete-coaching relationships that support, demand, guide, demand, nurture, demand, and eventually have players graduate and "turn pro in life."
What a wonderful contribution you bring to this site!

+1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on April 10, 2012, 07:08:43 PM
Based on the RPI calculations completed by JohnnyU (nice work JohnnyU!), the West Region rankings would be as follows:

Win%   OWP    OOWP   SOS     RPI   Rank   School       In-Region   W - L
0.846   0.476   0.518   0.490   0.579   1     Trinity (Texas)     22 - 4
0.724   0.527   0.506   0.520   0.571   2     La Verne       21 - 8
0.739   0.490   0.543   0.508   0.566   3     Whitworth      17 - 6
0.818   0.456   0.516   0.476   0.562   4     Concordia (Texas)      27 - 6
0.875   0.425   0.520   0.457   0.561   5     Pacific      14 - 2
0.696   0.495   0.546   0.512   0.558   6     Pacific Lutheran       16 - 7
0.455   0.642   0.491   0.592   0.558   7     Chapman      10 - 12
0.720   0.485   0.516   0.495   0.552   8     Linfield       18 - 7
0.688   0.490   0.513   0.497   0.545   9     Texas-Dallas      22 - 10
0.654   0.482   0.505   0.489   0.530   10   Cal Lutheran       17 - 9
0.696   0.470   0.479   0.473   0.528   11   Texas-Tyler       16  - 7

By factoring in SOS, OWP, etc. the RPI tells a much different story: 
(1) The overall RPI race is actually very tight.
(2) La Verne, Whitworth, and Pacific get some recognition.
(2) Chapman has the toughest SOS (as expected).
(4) Plus, only La Verne and Chapman have played a schedule of teams with winning records! 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on April 10, 2012, 10:24:54 PM
One could argue that Chapman's only facing opponents with a .642 winning percentage because they, themselves, cannot seem to beat anybody:)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 10, 2012, 11:24:16 PM
Careful you are starting to sound like Heaven...

Thanks JohnnyU and ElHormbre.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 11, 2012, 12:04:43 AM
Trinity gets a solid 13-5 win over Texas Lutheran (21-10).  Tanner Barron would have gotten the win but was chased after 4.2 innings.  Michael Bentz went 3.1 in relief to get his third win of the season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 11, 2012, 01:09:42 AM
Chased is probably not the right term, I think he gave up 2 hits, he did himself in with 3 walks. Still solid outing.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 11, 2012, 09:20:33 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 10, 2012, 10:24:54 PM
One could argue that Chapman's only facing opponents with a .642 winning percentage because they, themselves, cannot seem to beat anybody:)
:'( :'( :'( 9 of their 17 losses by 1 run. Bad defense, Relief pitchers not holding leads, wild pitches, passed balls, lack of timely hitting, bad base running has all contributed to a nightmare season for the Panthers. They have to win 6 consecutive games just to get .500. Painful to watch. 4 with Linfield coming up.

Last time Chapman had a losing record for the season was 1995. Last time they missed the playoffs was 2002.Both of these happen under the prior Head Coach Rex Peters.
http://www.chapmanathletics.com/sports/bsb/archives/BB_All-Time_Results.pdf
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 11, 2012, 11:39:52 AM
Crash your points are noteworthy. I find Chapman a very interesting story this year that just shows how special and maddening the game of baseball can be. When I saw them play Trinity they were up for the series, they were solid, played very well and frankly looked like a team that could play with anyone. They lost one game because of a ball in the sun, the game that Rau pitched could have easily gone either way, but it didn't. 

I thought their bullpen was a little suspect, hitting was not what it used to be, but when they did not commit errors they were a solid team. To me it just shows how important defense can be in the new bat era. A bad play here or there can take a team from a top 10 to one that won't make the playoffs. Were not talking about a lot of runs, but those few runs make a huge of the difference.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2012, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 11, 2012, 12:04:43 AM
Trinity gets a solid 13-5 win over Texas Lutheran (21-10).  Tanner Barron would have gotten the win but was chased after 4.2 innings.  Michael Bentz went 3.1 in relief to get his third win of the season.
Nice win by Trinity over TLU. TLU started their #4 starter Aaron Aleman, who got this 3rd start of the season.

I saw that Lucero got an inning in relief for mid-week work.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2012, 12:38:23 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 11, 2012, 09:20:33 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 10, 2012, 10:24:54 PM
One could argue that Chapman's only facing opponents with a .642 winning percentage because they, themselves, cannot seem to beat anybody:)
:'( :'( :'( 9 of their 17 losses by 1 run. Bad defense, Relief pitchers not holding leads, wild pitches, passed balls, lack of timely hitting, bad base running has all contributed to a nightmare season for the Panthers. They have to win 6 consecutive games just to get .500. Painful to watch. 4 with Linfield coming up.

Last time Chapman had a losing record for the season was 1995. Last time they missed the playoffs was 2002.Both of these happen under the prior Head Coach Rex Peters.
http://www.chapmanathletics.com/sports/bsb/archives/BB_All-Time_Results.pdf
That is eliminating a whole decade of favorable breaks in which you capitalize on the other team's mistakes.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 11, 2012, 12:48:02 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2012, 12:38:23 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 11, 2012, 09:20:33 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 10, 2012, 10:24:54 PM
One could argue that Chapman's only facing opponents with a .642 winning percentage because they, themselves, cannot seem to beat anybody:)
:'( :'( :'( 9 of their 17 losses by 1 run. Bad defense, Relief pitchers not holding leads, wild pitches, passed balls, lack of timely hitting, bad base running has all contributed to a nightmare season for the Panthers. They have to win 6 consecutive games just to get .500. Painful to watch. 4 with Linfield coming up.

Last time Chapman had a losing record for the season was 1995. Last time they missed the playoffs was 2002.Both of these happen under the prior Head Coach Rex Peters.
http://www.chapmanathletics.com/sports/bsb/archives/BB_All-Time_Results.pdf
That is eliminating a whole decade of favorable breaks in which you capitalize on the other team's mistakes.
Going from #2 in the country in 2011 to #8 in overall record in the SCIAC conference is quite a fall off the cliff. I guess all the good karma the past 10 years was used up and none available in 2012.

I do see a Texas making to Appleton in 2012. Just not sure who. NWC/SCIAC may have a tough time in the regionals in 2012. When is last time either a ASC or SCAC in the West made it the Championship round?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 11, 2012, 01:06:56 PM
I watched part of the game and thought that Barron had good stuff. He had 6ks' in 4 innings. He got a bit wild in the 4th with some wild pitches and a couple of walks and the game still close so Scannell pulled him. It drives me nuts to see a pitcher in control and then suddenly they start trying to get too fine and blow a good start. Scannell has a thing with pitching to contact and walks this year and if a pitcher is not staying in the zone he will be gone.

It seems like he is zeroing in on a lineup also. The good news for TU is that some of their bats that went quiet mid season seem to be coming back alive. It will be interesting to see who he gives the third game to this weekend. Could be Fink, Barron, or Bentz. I am guessing he will not give the ball to the freshmen Speer. If Bentz is used as a closer then he will likely go with one of the other two and if not I would guess Bentz. The other thing that has not been talked about too much on this team is their OF play, they tracked down a lot of balls in the gap last night.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2012, 02:19:52 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 11, 2012, 12:48:02 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2012, 12:38:23 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 11, 2012, 09:20:33 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 10, 2012, 10:24:54 PM
One could argue that Chapman's only facing opponents with a .642 winning percentage because they, themselves, cannot seem to beat anybody:)
:'( :'( :'( 9 of their 17 losses by 1 run. Bad defense, Relief pitchers not holding leads, wild pitches, passed balls, lack of timely hitting, bad base running has all contributed to a nightmare season for the Panthers. They have to win 6 consecutive games just to get .500. Painful to watch. 4 with Linfield coming up.

Last time Chapman had a losing record for the season was 1995. Last time they missed the playoffs was 2002.Both of these happen under the prior Head Coach Rex Peters.
http://www.chapmanathletics.com/sports/bsb/archives/BB_All-Time_Results.pdf
That is eliminating a whole decade of favorable breaks in which you capitalize on the other team's mistakes.
Going from #2 in the country in 2011 to #8 in overall record in the SCIAC conference is quite a fall off the cliff. I guess all the good karma the past 10 years was used up and none available in 2012.

I do see a Texas making to Appleton in 2012. Just not sure who. NWC/SCIAC may have a tough time in the regionals in 2012. When is last time either a ASC or SCAC in the West made it the Championship round?
Concordia-Texas in 2002.

I believe that they lost a 1-run heart-breaker in the first round to eventual champion ECSU and then another close game  on Day 2.

I have will have to check those facts.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 11, 2012, 02:44:44 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2012, 02:19:52 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 11, 2012, 12:48:02 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2012, 12:38:23 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 11, 2012, 09:20:33 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 10, 2012, 10:24:54 PM
One could argue that Chapman's only facing opponents with a .642 winning percentage because they, themselves, cannot seem to beat anybody:)
:'( :'( :'( 9 of their 17 losses by 1 run. Bad defense, Relief pitchers not holding leads, wild pitches, passed balls, lack of timely hitting, bad base running has all contributed to a nightmare season for the Panthers. They have to win 6 consecutive games just to get .500. Painful to watch. 4 with Linfield coming up.

Last time Chapman had a losing record for the season was 1995. Last time they missed the playoffs was 2002.Both of these happen under the prior Head Coach Rex Peters.
http://www.chapmanathletics.com/sports/bsb/archives/BB_All-Time_Results.pdf
That is eliminating a whole decade of favorable breaks in which you capitalize on the other team's mistakes.
Going from #2 in the country in 2011 to #8 in overall record in the SCIAC conference is quite a fall off the cliff. I guess all the good karma the past 10 years was used up and none available in 2012.

I do see a Texas making to Appleton in 2012. Just not sure who. NWC/SCIAC may have a tough time in the regionals in 2012. When is last time either a ASC or SCAC in the West made it the Championship round?
Concordia-Texas in 2002.

I believe that they lost a 1-run heart-breaker in the first round to eventual champion ECSU and then another close game  on Day 2.

I have will have to check those facts.
If you meant championship game of a regional....TU played Chapman on Sunday of the 08 regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 11, 2012, 03:20:22 PM
Yes one run extra inning loss to Eastern Conn State in game 1 of the 2002 World Series. ECSU went on to win the College World Series after that game. One thing that does stand out is the Coach for ECSU was so excited about evening the score in the bottom of the 8th that he actually dislocated his hip and there was a 30 minute delay to the game to haul him to the ER.

The next game was I believe a 3-1 loss the local Lakeland College in a nightcap that was played in freezing rain.

Appleton is a beautiful city and playing in that tournament was an an incredible experience. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 11, 2012, 04:20:50 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 11, 2012, 03:20:22 PM
Yes one run extra inning loss to Eastern Conn State in game 1 of the 2002 World Series. ECSU went on to win the College World Series after that game. One thing that does stand out is the Coach for ECSU was so excited about evening the score in the bottom of the 8th that he actually dislocated his hip and there was a 30 minute delay to the game to haul him to the ER.

The next game was I believe a 3-1 loss the local Lakeland College in a nightcap that was played in freezing rain.

Appleton is a beautiful city and playing in that tournament was an an incredible experience. 
Been to Appleton 4 times in past 5 years. Everything is first class. Hotels, dinners, stadium, people from Wisconsin. Night life at all the bars is incredible. Priceless times. Lifetime memories.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 11, 2012, 07:01:18 PM
Were do you stay? They put us in the Marriott I believe, could be wrong. I just remember they had a sports bar and Vince Lambarde Steakhouse that was incredible inside the lobby area. Also had pool tables gaming area that we could interact and socialize with the other players from different teams which was a good time. I remember talking to the Desalvo kid who played for Marrieta who eventually made the rotation for the Yankees.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 11, 2012, 08:48:51 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 11, 2012, 07:01:18 PM
Were do you stay? They put us in the Marriott I believe, could be wrong. I just remember they had a sports bar and Vince Lambarde Steakhouse that was incredible inside the lobby area. Also had pool tables gaming area that we could interact and socialize with the other players from different teams which was a good time. I remember talking to the Desalvo kid who played for Marrieta who eventually made the rotation for the Yankees.
That's the Paper Valley downtown on College Ave. It's where the teams always stay and where the banquet is held.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 11, 2012, 09:42:49 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 10, 2012, 06:48:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 10, 2012, 06:04:36 PM
The other side of a successful program is how well the coach helps the student-athlete navigate the waters in which the kid finally sees just how good/marginal a collegiate athlete that his/her skills allow him/her to be.  If the coach validates that person for the effort and the talents that are required for someone who will "turn pro in life", well then the absence of that person's name on the roster 4-years later is mitigated by the contribution that that experience had on the student-athlete.

Plenty of parents ask the student-athlete to reassess the money being spent at that time.  If transferring to a non-D3baseball school permits the student-athlete to graduate in a timely fashion, then that student-athlete has had a winning experience.

Ralph,
What a wonderful summary and assessment of college and baseball and college baseball!
Could be just me but it seems so many parents of HS players have invested so many $$$$ in showcases, travel baseball, lessons and the like, that the expectations for college and baseball are not realistic.  When the talent on the field at the best levels of competition is not what it was before college, everyone is blamed and responsible, when it really is pretty simple: the level of talent, performance and production isn't enough to get on the field.
While we don't have exposure to a vast array of programs, the ones we saw over a 4-5 year period had some truly wonderful coaches who achieved very well on helping the student-athlete navigate the waters of transition to college/adulthood, freedom combined with the demands of college athletics and baseball.
There are a small number of coaches at the D3 level who not only do that, they also take the good player and make him an excellent collegiate athlete/get drafted and "turn pro in baseball."
In the end, though, baseball ends for them too.
As you say, the best are the student/athlete-coaching relationships that support, demand, guide, demand, nurture, demand, and eventually have players graduate and "turn pro in life."
What a wonderful contribution you bring to this site!

+1.
I totally agree with you InfieldDad. This site would not be the same with out Ralph.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on April 12, 2012, 08:47:02 AM
Quote from: BamColt on April 11, 2012, 07:01:18 PM
Were do you stay? They put us in the Marriott I believe, could be wrong. I just remember they had a sports bar and Vince Lambarde Steakhouse that was incredible inside the lobby area. Also had pool tables gaming area that we could interact and socialize with the other players from different teams which was a good time. I remember talking to the Desalvo kid who played for Marrieta who eventually made the rotation for the Yankees.

Bar in the hotel lobby is called The Clubhouse... great place. I grew up there, so I know the region quite well.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 13, 2012, 01:47:47 AM
You should do a recommendations and best of Appleton thread come series time :)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 13, 2012, 02:28:08 AM
Been to Appleton 4 times in past 5 years.  ;D Stayed at the Radisson Paper Valley 3 times.

Also had great dinners each year at Lombardi's. Surrounded by pictures and momento's from legendary Packers Coach Vince Lombardi.

Spent lot of time at the dive bar--Wooden Nickel down the street from the hotel.

A real fan favorite and tradition for a West Coast team that has been to Appleton 7 times in 9 years.

Hotel Bar also good at the Radisson Paper Valley. Each entrance to the Clubhouse has a life size statue greeting you. One is Jack Daniels and the other Captain Morgan.

Also enjoyed food down the street from the Radisson Paper Valley at Victoria's Italian Cuisine. Several other great places in town also. Texas Roadhouse food was decent also.

Of course the BBQ brauts are pretty good post game time for the teams and fans.

Enjoyed the pre and post game tailgating in the Fox Cities Stadium parking also.

I was amazed at how many bars are on the same street of the hotel, all within walking distance.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurants-g30330-Appleton_Wisconsin.html

http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=restaurants&find_loc=Appleton%2C+WI%2C+USA&ns=1#l=p:WI:Appleton::

Dont count your chickens before they hatch. The road is a difficult one to Appleton

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 13, 2012, 04:56:32 AM
We all have our favorites. I'll second the nod for the Wooden Nickel (as well as other local watering holes).

I'll always recommend touring Lambeau Field, tailgating at Fox Cities Stadium, shopping at Fox River Mall, eating treats from Manderfield's Bakery, and taking a trip to Simon's Specialty Cheese for pizza and curds (you're in Wisconsin after all). The rest depends on your interests.

I live 20 miles from the stadium, and I'd be happy to give suggestions that match your interests. Send me a message.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 13, 2012, 03:01:15 PM
The NCAA couldn't hold the D3 World Series in a nicer place. Whats the current contract running having it in Appleton?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 13, 2012, 04:32:50 PM
The key test for me is that no doubt part of the idea of having the tournament there was to re-capture some of the buzz and atmosphere the event used to have in Marietta by UWO being so close. Yet I don't think Oshkosh has been in the Series once and the site has still been great.

I still think Marietta is the tops as far as the community support and involvement, being facility size-appropriate and centrally located for the vast majority of teams in the division. But outside of Marietta, Appleton by quite a bit better than Salem and I'm told by others better than the other host sites.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 13, 2012, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 13, 2012, 04:32:50 PM
The key test for me is that no doubt part of the idea of having the tournament there was to re-capture some of the buzz and atmosphere the event used to have in Marietta by UWO being so close. Yet I don't think Oshkosh has been in the Series once and the site has still been great.

I still think Marietta is the tops as far as the community support and involvement, being facility size-appropriate and centrally located for the vast majority of teams in the division. But outside of Marietta, Appleton by quite a bit better than Salem and I'm told by others better than the other host sites.
Two minor quibbles ... Oshkosh did make it to Appleton. And the community support may have been as good in Marietta, but there's no way it was better than the Fox Cities. The host families, the Timber Rattlers staff and the things most people don't see are what make the event in Appleton extraordinary.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 13, 2012, 05:32:57 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 13, 2012, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 13, 2012, 04:32:50 PM
The key test for me is that no doubt part of the idea of having the tournament there was to re-capture some of the buzz and atmosphere the event used to have in Marietta by UWO being so close. Yet I don't think Oshkosh has been in the Series once and the site has still been great.

I still think Marietta is the tops as far as the community support and involvement, being facility size-appropriate and centrally located for the vast majority of teams in the division. But outside of Marietta, Appleton by quite a bit better than Salem and I'm told by others better than the other host sites.
Two minor quibbles ... Oshkosh did make it to Appleton. And the community support may have been as good in Marietta, but there's no way it was better than the Fox Cities. The host families, the Timber Rattlers staff and the things most people don't see are what make the event in Appleton extraordinary.

Thanks for the correct. Still, I doubt anyone foresaw UWO only going once in more than a decade.

I wasn't meaning to say otherwise about Appleton. It's a great site and if the Series can't go back to Marietta I'd be fine with seeing it stay in Appleton for the forseeable future.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 13, 2012, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 13, 2012, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 13, 2012, 04:32:50 PM
The key test for me is that no doubt part of the idea of having the tournament there was to re-capture some of the buzz and atmosphere the event used to have in Marietta by UWO being so close. Yet I don't think Oshkosh has been in the Series once and the site has still been great.

I still think Marietta is the tops as far as the community support and involvement, being facility size-appropriate and centrally located for the vast majority of teams in the division. But outside of Marietta, Appleton by quite a bit better than Salem and I'm told by others better than the other host sites.
Two minor quibbles ... Oshkosh did make it to Appleton. And the community support may have been as good in Marietta, but there's no way it was better than the Fox Cities. The host families, the Timber Rattlers staff and the things most people don't see are what make the event in Appleton extraordinary.
I want Appleton to "own" the Series, just like Salem has taken to the Stagg Bowl and Omaha owns the D-1 College World Series.  The community support is the nature and essence of D-III.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 14, 2012, 04:12:38 PM
Trinity gets a 5-4 win in the first game at Hendrix (only the Warriors' second home loss of the season).  Don't have any details as I turned into the video just in time to hear them say that whoveer got the win for Trinity pitched a complete game.  Hendrix was limited to four hits but Trinity committed 2 errors.    Tigers had nine hits and Hendrix did not commit any errors.

Hendrix HAD a live stats link up earlier but took it down - those stats were from the scoreboard.

Edit:  Ben Klimesh got the win, setting a TU career win record with his 29th.   I think he's one away from the single-season school win record now.   Thanks to @TU_Sports for the tweet, apparently it was a comeback win.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 14, 2012, 07:18:43 PM
Concordia sweeps McMurry on the road. TLU and Hardin Simmons tied up in the 10th.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 14, 2012, 08:09:07 PM
Klimesh did not have his best stuff but gutted out a win vs a very aggressive Hendrix club in game 1.

TU won game 2 on a wild one 10-9, 14-15 hits a piece. Lucero went out with an arm injury in the 4th. Bentz gets the win with freshmen Speers the save. Hendrix is a very aggressive team that never gives up, really liked the way they were coached.

TU kept getting runs and then the bottom half Hendrix would match them.

TBD on Lucero, this could not be good for TU if it is serious.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 14, 2012, 08:57:50 PM
Ron, Klimesh was his own worst enemy. Too many walks, HBP, and then his off speed was not working. Good pitchers and teams win without their best stuff, which they did and he gutted it out. Game ended on LD to second and doubled off 1st with tying run at third.

Loosing Lucero the way he went out has to be a huge concern for Trinity.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 12:13:01 AM
Trinity had a walk and HBP in their 2-run 7th also. Doesn't seem like either team played all that well.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 15, 2012, 11:20:52 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 14, 2012, 08:09:07 PM
Klimesh did not have his best stuff but gutted out a win vs a very aggressive Hendrix club in game 1.

TU won game 2 on a wild one 10-9, 14-15 hits a piece. Lucero went out with an arm injury in the 4th. Bentz gets the win with freshmen Speers the save. Hendrix is a very aggressive team that never gives up, really liked the way they were coached.

TU kept getting runs and then the bottom half Hendrix would match them.

TBD on Lucero, this could not be good for TU if it is serious.

I know nothing about this program but thought the HC made a bad choice intentionally walking the go-ahead run in the top of the 7th with 1 out.  Many will probably think it was a good "strategy move" but it obviously backfired.  I don't see giving free passes to a team thats down is a good idea.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 15, 2012, 12:26:26 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 12:13:01 AM
Trinity had a walk and HBP in their 2-run 7th also. Doesn't seem like either team played all that well.

Yesterday, Oregon scored 2 runs against Stanford on a walk, bunt single, HBP, walk, past ball.
Isn't the way you posted also  the way the game gets played, sometimes, even at the top levels of college baseball?
When a team gives you base runners, you make the best of it. As Jack P noted, an intentional walk to the winning run could be questioned, but they still need to score.
As Oregon shows, good teams make others pay for mistakes.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 15, 2012, 04:22:41 PM
Trinity sweeps Hendrix; wins today 9-8.

Jack, probably 8of10 coaches would have done the same thing. There was one out, runners on second and third, the best hitter on the team and one of the top in the conference was coming up and already had two hard hit doubles to the fences, the batter behind him was struggling a bit, so he sets up a double play to get out of the inning. It did not work out, but I would guess the Hendrix coach would do the same thing again given the circumstances.

Heaven, yeah all games that have a walk and a HBP are poorly played. LOL.

Hendrix is one tough team to beat at home; they were 13-1 coming into this weekend and all three games were one run dogfights. The Hendrix players are aggressive with their bats, they can hit, they are also aggressive on the base path, steals, hit n runs, bunts. A fundamentally sound team IMO.

Trinity got to work through some guys who had not pitched a lot and Franklin Bay got the win and pitched 5 solid innings in relief, Barron got the save. There were 13 total runs scored in the first two wild innings until order was restored by both teams.

I am hoping all of the players and their families are safe in the wild mid west. I often wonder how northern teams with compressed schedules make up weather cancelled games, it must be very tough on them. Have a safe evening up there.




Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 15, 2012, 04:39:29 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 15, 2012, 04:22:41 PM
Trinity sweeps Hendrix; wins today 9-8.

Jack, probably 8of10 coaches would have done the same thing. There was one out, runners on second and third, the best hitter on the team and one of the top in the conference was coming up and already had two hard hit doubles to the fences, the batter behind him was struggling a bit, so he sets up a double play to get out of the inning. It did not work out, but I would guess the Hendrix coach would do the same thing again given the circumstances.

Heaven, yeah all games that have a walk and a HBP are poorly played. LOL.

Hendrix is one tough team to beat at home; they were 13-1 coming into this weekend and all three games were one run dogfights. The Hendrix players are aggressive with their bats, they can hit, they are also aggressive on the base path, steals, hit n runs, bunts. A fundamentally sound team IMO.

Trinity got to work through some guys who had not pitched a lot and Franklin Bay got the win and pitched 5 solid innings in relief, Barron got the save. There were 13 total runs scored in the first two wild innings until order was restored by both teams.

I am hoping all of the players and their families are safe in the wild mid west. I often wonder how northern teams with compressed schedules make up weather cancelled games, it must be very tough on them. Have a safe evening up there.

I hear what you are saying but thought it was a bad call.  Just one mans opinion.  Also, there was only a man on 2nd, not that it really mattered.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 06:38:52 PM
Once again the rabbit ears come out where Trinity's concerned.

3 one-run wins against a team without a prayer of a Pool C berth is surely evidence that Trinity is awesome. Get over yourselves.

The previous poster said Klimesh was his own worst enemy because of walks and HBPs. Doesn't sound like a very clean game from him. He also committed and error but Hendrix left the bases loaded in the first inning.

Hendrix took the early lead on an unearned run.

In Trinity's two run 5th there was a walk, HBP and a balk. Surely the signs of well played baseball.

Hendrix got 3 back in an inning that was kindled by a walk and a HBP.

And finally, Trinity's decisive seventh featured...oh yes...again, a walk and an HBP to get it started.

Trinity tried to give it back with two walks and a balk in the bottom of the 7th, but were foiled at their attempt to hand victory to Hendrix with the line drive double play...just how they drew it up I'm sure.

So...anyone want to argue now that this sure seems for all the world like a sloppy game?

Trinity is now 8-2 in one-run games after this series. Hard to keep up that kind of record...one might wonder if they used up their good fortune this weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 15, 2012, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 06:38:52 PM
Once again the rabbit ears come out where Trinity's concerned.

3 one-run wins against a team without a prayer of a Pool C berth is surely evidence that Trinity is awesome. Get over yourselves.

The previous poster said Klimesh was his own worst enemy because of walks and HBPs. Doesn't sound like a very clean game from him. He also committed and error but Hendrix left the bases loaded in the first inning.

Hendrix took the early lead on an unearned run.

In Trinity's two run 5th there was a walk, HBP and a balk. Surely the signs of well played baseball.

Hendrix got 3 back in an inning that was kindled by a walk and a HBP.

And finally, Trinity's decisive seventh featured...oh yes...again, a walk and an HBP to get it started.

Trinity tried to give it back with two walks and a balk in the bottom of the 7th, but were foiled at their attempt to hand victory to Hendrix with the line drive double play...just how they drew it up I'm sure.

So...anyone want to argue now that this sure seems for all the world like a sloppy game?

Trinity is now 8-2 in one-run games after this series. Hard to keep up that kind of record...one might wonder if they used up their good fortune this weekend.

Some of your comments, like some included in these recent posts, border on being  so ridiculous.
Every team which reaches a Regional and beyond will have games or a series where the game got the better of them
Stanford scored 6 runs in 27 innings, and had something like 6 errors along the way. A player who is expected to be picked in the first round in June had 3 errors on Friday night. Stanford has 8 position players expected to be picked in the first 3 rounds this and next year and they have played 3 really poor series in the Pac 12 to now be 5-7.
When teams find a way to win while not performing at their best, the "W"  has some positives in getting to a team goal after 40 games.
My guess is the coaches and players are satisfied with the W's but not at all with the way they performed.
You seem to want to  sit in a throne of judgement and critiique.  This message board is great for you to do that.
One thing about baseball, when a team/player has a toughl game or outing, they get to come back right away and get better.
TU might need some kids to step up if Lucero cannot play.
These are great days and tough days, but they are not the type you describe.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 15, 2012, 08:29:52 PM
Heaven your bias against Western and in particular Texas teams is pretty dependable, and showed up again today.

As usual you extrapolate a comment on situation and make blanket, illogical, flaming & ignorant statement. You are consistent I must say.

How you can take a comment about a pitcher not having his best stuff, then say both teams did not play well without watching the games, because of a HBP and a walk, is just another one of your ignorant statements. Last time I checked championship teams win close games.

As usual you are popping into the Western Region and showing your bias and ignorance. Tell us how many Western teams have you seen play this year?

Now if you would have said the first two innings of the game today was painful, I would have been right there with you.

Take your bias and somewhere else.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 15, 2012, 08:38:34 PM
Nice post inflielddad. I can tell you the kids on the bus going back to San Antonio are thinking it was a great weekend. (with the exception of potentially loosing one of their top pitchers) Going into Hendrix and sweeping a very good team who was 13-1 at home up to that point is a pretty nice accomplishment.

I will certainly add the Lucero family to our prayers, injuries to pitchers like the one he had on Saturday are typically not a good thing.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 15, 2012, 10:07:00 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 06:38:52 PM
Once again the rabbit ears come out where Trinity's concerned.

3 one-run wins against a team without a prayer of a Pool C berth is surely evidence that Trinity is awesome. Get over yourselves.

The previous poster said Klimesh was his own worst enemy because of walks and HBPs. Doesn't sound like a very clean game from him. He also committed and error but Hendrix left the bases loaded in the first inning.

Hendrix took the early lead on an unearned run.

In Trinity's two run 5th there was a walk, HBP and a balk. Surely the signs of well played baseball.

Hendrix got 3 back in an inning that was kindled by a walk and a HBP.

And finally, Trinity's decisive seventh featured...oh yes...again, a walk and an HBP to get it started.

Trinity tried to give it back with two walks and a balk in the bottom of the 7th, but were foiled at their attempt to hand victory to Hendrix with the line drive double play...just how they drew it up I'm sure.

So...anyone want to argue now that this sure seems for all the world like a sloppy game?

Trinity is now 8-2 in one-run games after this series. Hard to keep up that kind of record...one might wonder if they used up their good fortune this weekend.
I bet chapman would trade their record in one run games with trinity right now. A win is a win.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 10:15:52 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 15, 2012, 07:41:56 PM
My guess is the coaches and players are satisfied with the W's but not at all with the way they performed.
You seem to want to  sit in a throne of judgement and critiique.  This message board is great for you to do that.

In other words, it's OK for the team to be critical but not me.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 15, 2012, 10:44:50 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 10:15:52 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 15, 2012, 07:41:56 PM
My guess is the coaches and players are satisfied with the W's but not at all with the way they performed.
You seem to want to  sit in a throne of judgement and critiique.  This message board is great for you to do that.

In other words, it's OK for the team to be critical but not me.

Being critical is fine.  Flaming Trinity at every opportunity borders on the ludicrous.  We are thoroughly aware you don't respect Trinity and won't unless they get to the championships, something which may have become much more difficult if they lost one of their two stud P's this weekend.   Fair enough, move on to another topic. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 15, 2012, 10:47:11 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 10:15:52 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 15, 2012, 07:41:56 PM
My guess is the coaches and players are satisfied with the W's but not at all with the way they performed.
You seem to want to  sit in a throne of judgement and critiique.  This message board is great for you to do that.

In other words, it's OK for the team to be critical but not me.


How intriguing you would ask the question  and  apparently not appreciate the  "difference."
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 10:54:52 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 15, 2012, 08:29:52 PM
Heaven your bias against Western and in particular Texas teams is pretty dependable, and showed up again today.

Not yesterday? Aw shucks...

As usual you extrapolate a comment on situation and make blanket, illogical, flaming & ignorant statement. You are consistent I must say.

I extrapolated? I'm not the one that presumed that one example was the only example that supported a given statement. I'm sorry, if I watched a game where most of the offense was sparked by free passes, I would feel like that was a pretty mediocre game, even if my team was involved. My team isn't one of those that goes to the plate looking to get hit, though, even though there are some in our region that do.

How you can take a comment about a pitcher not having his best stuff, then say both teams did not play well without watching the games, because of a HBP and a walk

Classic tactic...continue to perpetrate a myth until other people believe. Too bad I laid out the entire story already.

, is just another one of your ignorant statements. Last time I checked championship teams win close games.

Check again. Only 4 of Marietta's 47 wins en route to a national title last year were by 1 run. They lost none, and having a closer with 7 combined shutouts on a team with a record number of shutouts I imagine has something to do with that. Illinois Wesleyan only won 4 one-run games (against 6 losses) in 2010. ST. Thomas was 5-5 in 1-run games in 2009, with most of those wins for both the 2010 and 2009 champs coming late in the year after losing several one-run games early (regression to the mean). Trinity was 7-1 in one-run game, but of course they only lost 1 game all year. In 2007 Kean was 6-5 in one-run games. In 2006, Marietta was 8-5, winning its last 3 one-run games. But they lost 3 one-run games to the same team before beating that same team in a one-run game in the regional championship. It might help to know the 3 losses were all on the road, and the win at a neutral site.

So while several teams of late have won close games in their championship runs, not so many were outstanding in one-run games during the regular season. 2011 Marietta only played 4 one-run games in a 51 game season and the only one in their tournament run was in a throwaway game in the regional championship. Trinity simply didn't lost often to anyone. The others were actually below par teams in 1-run games until late in the year. In other words, there's really not much correlation at all between championship teams and outperforming in one-run games.


Take your bias and somewhere else.

Make like a tree, and get out of here.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 15, 2012, 10:44:50 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 10:15:52 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 15, 2012, 07:41:56 PM
My guess is the coaches and players are satisfied with the W's but not at all with the way they performed.
You seem to want to  sit in a throne of judgement and critiique.  This message board is great for you to do that.

In other words, it's OK for the team to be critical but not me.

Being critical is fine.  Flaming Trinity at every opportunity borders on the ludicrous.

Interesting that giving what I would think would be a rather reasonable assessment in most circles is seen as that here. Bit of little man's syndrome I detect. Sorry, most people don't get jazzed up by walks, errors, hit batsmen and balks.

  We are thoroughly aware you don't respect Trinity and won't unless they get to the championships, something which may have become much more difficult if they lost one of their two stud P's this weekend.   Fair enough, move on to another topic.

Boy you're not even waiting until his status is known before you start making excuses are you? Never mind that Marietta finished 2nd in 2001 with Matt DeSalvo, lost him for the season early in 2002, and then finished 2nd again with three guys that, to quote a sportswriter friend of mine "couldn't break a pane of glass"! I'm sure that's not the only example of a team overcoming injury to make a strong showing in Appleton (or Salem, etc.).

I hope Lucero is available and Trinity is at full strength, but if he's not that's not an excuse for not winning a regional or winning a game in Appleton if a team is really that good.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 11:03:33 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 15, 2012, 10:47:11 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 10:15:52 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 15, 2012, 07:41:56 PM
My guess is the coaches and players are satisfied with the W's but not at all with the way they performed.
You seem to want to  sit in a throne of judgement and critiique.  This message board is great for you to do that.

In other words, it's OK for the team to be critical but not me.


How intriguing you would ask the question  and  apparently not appreciate the  "difference."

Punctuation fail. I didn't ask a question.

And there is no difference. I'm just as capable of analyzing a data set as people who participated in the making of same. Unless one of them's a mathematician, I suppose.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 11:06:39 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on April 15, 2012, 10:07:00 PMI bet chapman would trade their record in one run games with trinity right now. A win is a win.

Certainly true, but not really the point. The point is that Trinity with each one-run win runs a greater risk of a regression to the mean game that might come at the wrong time.

Winning 3 straight one-run games has to be considered a measure of fortune by any neutral individual. Certainly not something you can count on happening.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 15, 2012, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 11:03:33 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 15, 2012, 10:47:11 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 10:15:52 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 15, 2012, 07:41:56 PM
My guess is the coaches and players are satisfied with the W's but not at all with the way they performed.
You seem to want to  sit in a throne of judgement and critiique.  This message board is great for you to do that.

In other words, it's OK for the team to be critical but not me.


How intriguing you would ask the question  and  apparently not appreciate the  "difference."

Punctuation fail. I didn't ask a question.

And there is no difference. I'm just as capable of analyzing a data set as people who participated in the making of same. Unless one of them's a mathematician, I suppose.

Now, remind me again, how many games you played in Appleton and how many All American teams you made...without filling my email with flaming comments.
Your comments are coming across like a jock sniffer.
There is a huge difference in being on that field, competing, laying yourself open in the game of baseball and sitting on some computer reading a box score.
It is amazing you say "there is no difference?"
What a perspective you bring, which  seems to miss all that  is involved in being on that field competing with every ounce of effort and desire and ability against an opponent doing the same... you can critique games from a box score "with no difference."
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 16, 2012, 12:18:16 AM
What makes you think anyone is comparing Trinity to Marietta? They were a great team what does that have to do with this year?. You are comparing apples and oranges.

In case you have noticed there was a bat change last year that has reduced HR by 50%, extra base hits and scoring by 30%. 1 run today is what 2-3 runs were pre bat change.

I again ask you how many Western region games you have seen this year?

You remind me of Uncle Rico, you out there throwing footballs reliving your past failures?

When you see some teams play then I would welcome some intelligent comments from you, until then shut up your trap and go crawl back in whatever hole you came out of.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 16, 2012, 12:47:17 AM
April 15, 2012

ASC - Corncordia-Texas(30-6)
SCIAC - La Verne(23-11)
NWC - Pacific(17-13)
SCAC - Trinity(29-6)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 16, 2012, 02:25:52 AM
Trinity to Hendrix is a 10-hour road trip, 600+ miles, one way.

90% of D-III won't have a conference road trip that far this season.

Heaven, you're a knowledgeable fan who makes good posts on the other boards.

You come into the West Region and act like the "southbound end of a northbound horse".

What gives?

Yes, the West Region has its own peculiarities.  It is a solid well-balanced region.  I don't think that there is a more balanced region, from top to bottom, than the West.  There are no patsies in the Region.  The ASC has sent 6 of 15 teams to the Regionals in the last decade. The SCAC-West has sent 4 teams.  The SCIAC has sent at least 4, and the Northwest Conference has had a national championship and even sent teams to different regionals in the same year, and winning one of them.

Our problem in the West has been getting past Chapman!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:06:59 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 16, 2012, 12:18:16 AM
What makes you think anyone is comparing Trinity to Marietta? They were a great team what does that have to do with this year?. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Well, they look to be pretty good this year too. And I also compared the last six national championship teams since you said championship teams win close games. I proved that several were not particularly adept at doing so. It might be accurate to say "championship teams are usually at least average at winning close games." But it's worth mentioning that NONE of those teams in their entire season won as many 1 run games as Trinity already has. To me it's a measure of how dominant a team you are. If you're not having to win very many one-run games but you're still winning a lot, then it's because you've been notably better than most of your opponents.

In case you have noticed there was a bat change last year that has reduced HR by 50%, extra base hits and scoring by 30%. 1 run today is what 2-3 runs were pre bat change.

I noticed before last season started. That's why I was touting Marietta to be a strong contender (ask Jim Dixon) in the Mideast while still acknowledging Heidelberg as the preseason favorite because they had earned that with their performance and what they had coming back. Not because of whatever reason you think Trinity has earned the right not to be scrutinized. Most people were picking Heidelberg and not many were picking Marietta. I think a few were picking Adrian. I'm not perfect, but I had that one dead right.

One run is still one run, even if one run is statistically less common. It's certainly not like 2-3 runs...ask the pitcher pitching in the last inning with a runner on 3rd in a 1-run game if he feels like he's got a 3 run lead.


I again ask you how many Western region games you have seen this year?

This is not relevant. By this measure, no one could possibly have any concept of any team that they haven't seen. I've never seen a tornado live, but I have a pretty good idea of what ingredients combine to make one likely because I've studied them. I never saw Marietta live last year (because I was in South Korea) but I had a pretty good idea they would be good last year because I knew how they were put together and have done a lot of studying the game at this level over the past 15+ years, and the history of it dating further back than that. If a tree falls in the forest but no one is there to see it, does it make a sound? Of course it does, but you can't prove it. That's what you're saying...that because you weren't there to be able to prove it you can't say what happened.

When you see some teams play then I would welcome some intelligent comments from you, until then shut up your trap and go crawl back in whatever hole you came out of.

Classy stuff here. But I'm the one that gets the -k's. Funny.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 16, 2012, 02:25:52 AM
Trinity to Hendrix is a 10-hour road trip, 600+ miles, one way.

90% of D-III won't have a conference road trip that far this season.

Most Texas teams also won't make a trip to Florida or California and play numerous games in a week, or do the same thing up north. We all have our crosses to bear.

Heaven, you're a knowledgeable fan who makes good posts on the other boards.

You come into the West Region and act like the "southbound end of a northbound horse".

What gives?

Well, for one thing, people calling me names (and even worse, dancing around it but not having the guts to actually call me one) when all I'm doing is laying out facts and giving honest assessments like I always do. Another is Texas fans EVERY YEAR acting like their teams are all hot stuff and then fizzling out in the regional. One did make it to the Series, and if you look up the American-Statesman articles on their games in Appleton, you'll find my name at the top of the article (or you should unless they screwed me lol).

Yes, the West Region has its own peculiarities.  It is a solid well-balanced region.  I don't think that there is a more balanced region, from top to bottom, than the West.  There are no patsies in the Region.

And see this is a perfect example of the kind of horsecrap that frosts me. Austin is a patsy. Sul Ross State, Schreiner, East Texas Baptist, Ozarks, Caltech is one of the worst programs in the country. Occidental's not very good. There are several pretty sad teams in the NWC. The West has its warts like any other league. The difference is West fans (and Texas ones in particular, I've little beef with the NWC or California fans here it doesn't seem; a couple have even msged me in the past expressing agreement even though they didn't want to say it publicly because they see how I'm treated for giving an honest opinion) refuse to acknowledge it, act like their teams have the hardest life and the toughest battle to Appleton, in the absence of all logic to the contrary.

The ASC has sent 6 of 15 teams to the Regionals in the last decade.

That's a reflection of parity among the top teams in the conference. The lack of participation in Appleton would suggest that shouldn't be confused with excellence.

The SCAC-West has sent 4 teams.  The SCIAC has sent at least 4, and the Northwest Conference has had a national championship and even sent teams to different regionals in the same year, and winning one of them.

Our problem in the West has been getting past Chapman!

Chapman hasn't gone deep into the Series in all those years. Chapman winning it almost every year to me shows a lack of depth in the region. Other regions have strong programs that don't make it every year. Parity in a league shouldn't be confused with parity in a region. It's clear in the West there has been very little parity over the past decade. There's Chapman, the NWC winner, and then everyone else.

I hate to keep going back to Marietta and the Mideast but they're the best program over the history of the Division and right now, and the Mideast is arguably the best region. 2011 Marietta won the championship, 2010 Heidelberg finished I think 3rd, 2009 Wooster finished second, 2008 Adrian finished 3rd or 4th. 2007 Marietta went two and out, 2006 Marietta won the championship, 2005 Wooster finished 3rd, 2004 Manchester went two and out, 2003 Anderson finished 3rd or 4th, 2001 and 2002 Marietta finished 2nd. That's strength, that's depth. Sure, Marietta's the most successful, but they've been beaten a decent bit (some years didn't even make the regional, another testament to the region's depth that you can't pencil a program in for a regional appearance in a down year; witness Heidelberg this year as well) and when someone else has won the region they've usually gone on to represent it well.

There may well be other regions in a similar boat (Midwest and Mid-Atlantic come to mind as most likely). But Chapman's not going to be there this year, so the rest of the region has their chance this year. We'll see what comes of it. Presumably someone from it will make it to Appleton (though I suppose it's possible there's a fly-in).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 16, 2012, 11:20:46 AM
Is this Forehaven guy for real? You my friend need to follow baseball a little bit more before coming up with that analysis. A sweep of a conference series in baseball no matter of the score is huge. Even non contenders who are just playing out the season can steal a game in a series very easily here and there in all divisions of baseball. Its baseball, not basketball or football.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 11:59:39 AM
Quote from: BamColt on April 16, 2012, 11:20:46 AM
Is this Forehaven guy for real? You my friend need to follow baseball a little bit more before coming up with that analysis. A sweep of a conference series in baseball no matter of the score is huge. Even non contenders who are just playing out the season can steal a game in a series very easily here and there in all divisions of baseball. Its baseball, not basketball or football.

Bam- Don't question what you don't know. While it is often harsh, his assessments are usually spot on. It just so happens that when he attacks your team/conference/region, posters tend to get a little bent out of shape about it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 12:15:24 PM
Yeah I pretty much give up. Winning's better than losing, absolutely.

It's a difference in perspective. I'm looking at the whole country and doing it (mostly) objectively, or at least trying, and trying to figure out who's who, who's for real, etc. Especially in a case like the SCAC and with a team coming off losing a series to a pretty humdrum team, when a team that's supposedly a top contender plays a better but still not that accomplished team and program (certainly nowhere near the Pool C race), I'd certainly hope to see more than a free pass-filled squeaker with the ace and two slugfests in which clearly one run didn't mean that much (shooting down the 1 run now = 2-3 in the past argument). I also, when applicable, remember the words of intelligent people who have dedicated more of their lives to baseball than I have that have taught me a lot in the past and try to apply it.

I have seen coaches and teams sweep conference series that weren't very thrilled about the manner in which it was done. I've also seen very good teams get plastered in single games or even two in one day early in the year and get together and say "ok that was bad, forget it and let's get better tomorrow." A few years back I watched two top 5 teams play two high scoring games and split. And I talked to one of the coaches after and he said "sure didn't look like two top 5 clubs out there, did it?"

All questions will be answered in May.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 16, 2012, 12:26:02 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 12:15:24 PM
Yeah I pretty much give up. Winning's better than losing, absolutely.

It's a difference in perspective. I'm looking at the whole country and doing it (mostly) objectively, or at least trying, and trying to figure out who's who, who's for real, etc. Especially in a case like the SCAC and with a team coming off losing a series to a pretty humdrum team, when a team that's supposedly a top contender plays a better but still not that accomplished team and program (certainly nowhere near the Pool C race), I'd certainly hope to see more than a free pass-filled squeaker with the ace and two slugfests in which clearly one run didn't mean that much (shooting down the 1 run now = 2-3 in the past argument). I also, when applicable, remember the words of intelligent people who have dedicated more of their lives to baseball than I have that have taught me a lot in the past and try to apply it.

I have seen coaches and teams sweep conference series that weren't very thrilled about the manner in which it was done. I've also seen very good teams get plastered in single games or even two in one day early in the year and get together and say "ok that was bad, forget it and let's get better tomorrow." A few years back I watched two top 5 teams play two high scoring games and split. And I talked to one of the coaches after and he said "sure didn't look like two top 5 clubs out there, did it?"

All questions will be answered in May.
Trinity players and fans were thrilled with a 3 game sweep in Conway against Hendrix because of how tough Hendrix is to play at home.  They may not have a great outstanding overall record, but they are always good at home. 

2009- Hendrix wins 2-3 in Conway.
2010-Hendrix wins both in Conway.  TU went 32-9.
2011-Hendrix wins both in Conway.  TU went 34-13.

Hendrix plays TU very tough in Conway and so any type of win is a good one there.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 16, 2012, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 11:59:39 AM
Quote from: BamColt on April 16, 2012, 11:20:46 AM
Is this Forehaven guy for real? You my friend need to follow baseball a little bit more before coming up with that analysis. A sweep of a conference series in baseball no matter of the score is huge. Even non contenders who are just playing out the season can steal a game in a series very easily here and there in all divisions of baseball. Its baseball, not basketball or football.

Bam- Don't question what you don't know. While it is often harsh, his assessments are usually spot on. It just so happens that when he attacks your team/conference/region, posters tend to get a little bent out of shape about it.

Probably because he does attack, and in a disrespectful manner. There's little to be gained by being a jerk and a lot to lose, in terms of respect, perhaps posting privileges.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 16, 2012, 12:57:06 PM
I have to respectfully disagree with you Bigpoppa, regarding his analysis. I have seen little objective analysis with any kind perspective in his posts in the Western region. (I can say that I have not read much in some of the other areas, since I don't know them)
He is biased, one sided, mean spirited and illogical in nearly everything he has posted here.  Show me one example where he has applied the basic principles of logic here without his east/west bias ?

The beauty of a national board is that you get local perspectives, like Crash in the SCIAC, one like tigerfan just posted regarding the rivalry between Hendrix and Trinity. Hendrix was 13-1 at home up until this weekend. These things play a big part of winning and losing in college baseball, and make it interesting to share.

Frankly this board would be a better place without him, many of the other ones I have participated in would have banned him long ago.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 16, 2012, 01:18:18 PM
Its common sense to question his baseball knowledge just based on that post. More flame than analysis to me.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 08:19:49 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 16, 2012, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 11:59:39 AM
Quote from: BamColt on April 16, 2012, 11:20:46 AM
Is this Forehaven guy for real? You my friend need to follow baseball a little bit more before coming up with that analysis. A sweep of a conference series in baseball no matter of the score is huge. Even non contenders who are just playing out the season can steal a game in a series very easily here and there in all divisions of baseball. Its baseball, not basketball or football.

Bam- Don't question what you don't know. While it is often harsh, his assessments are usually spot on. It just so happens that when he attacks your team/conference/region, posters tend to get a little bent out of shape about it.

Probably because he does attack, and in a disrespectful manner. There's little to be gained by being a jerk and a lot to lose, in terms of respect, perhaps posting privileges.

Are you for real? I know you don't like me but jeez. Read the thread. I'm the one being told I don't know anything, being told to "shut my trap and crawl into whatever hole I came out of", etc. ad nauseam ad infinitum. Not that I care, it's all really quite boring to me, certainly not exciting enough to go looking for examples from outside this thread. But I am pretty shocked to see myself be the one that is the target of veiled ban threats. Well, shocked might be a lie, considering it's you and our history. But I am surprised, we'll go with that.

I rather like real debate rather than rah-rah foolishness because debate affords the opportunity to learn something through disagreement. An environment in which one is compelled to merely accept the incorrect is not an environment that fosters learning, unless one is intent upon learning that which is incorrect, of course. I learn through such debates and am happy to do so. What doesn't help anyone learn is if one is denigrated, derided as "attacking" merely because they disagree with someone else or even a group of someone else's.

And if I lose respect from someone because they don't like the way I present facts and ideas or conclusions I draw from them, I really don't care because that person is clearly not a person whose respect should mean a lot to me.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 08:32:58 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 16, 2012, 12:57:06 PM
I have to respectfully disagree with you Bigpoppa, regarding his analysis. I have seen little objective analysis with any kind perspective in his posts in the Western region.

Let's talk about what objectivity is -- not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion. (source: dictionary.com). If I lack objectivity where D-III is concerned, it is almost certainly related to Marietta, its rivals, and that region in general. Beyond that, of course I have opinions but a key part of the definition is "based on facts" and I believe mine generally are. I've done a lot of objective analysis on this board since its creation, and I know you don't know all of that and neither do a lot of people and that's fine. I would guide everyone to heed Big Poppa's words.

The beauty of a national board is that you get local perspectives, like Crash in the SCIAC, one like tigerfan just posted regarding the rivalry between Hendrix and Trinity. Hendrix was 13-1 at home up until this weekend. These things play a big part of winning and losing in college baseball, and make it interesting to share.

Not many of those wins were against what I'd call real quality competition, but whatever floats your boat. Btw, this isn't a national board...though maybe I should stick to that one because people seem to get awfully territorial on the regional and conference boards. In the past there were some other posters on this board that don't seem to post much anymore...I presume fanboys with little tolerance ran them off.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 16, 2012, 08:38:06 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 11:59:39 AM
While it is often harsh, his assessments are usually spot on. It just so happens that when he attacks your team/conference/region, posters tend to get a little bent out of shape about it.

Candidly, he's more objective than most in my opinion and the breadth in which he examines D3 baseball is pretty impressive.

Though I've primarily lurked this year, I've participated on this forum since early 2007 and though I don't always agree, I certainly appreciate his analysis and perspective.

In my mind, these are fair points that added value to this forum (whether I agree with his analysis or not):

Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 11:06:39 PM

Certainly true, but not really the point. The point is that Trinity with each one-run win runs a greater risk of a regression to the mean game that might come at the wrong time.

Winning 3 straight one-run games has to be considered a measure of fortune by any neutral individual. Certainly not something you can count on happening.

Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
But it's worth mentioning that NONE of those teams in their entire season won as many 1 run games as Trinity already has. To me it's a measure of how dominant a team you are. If you're not having to win very many one-run games but you're still winning a lot, then it's because you've been notably better than most of your opponents.

I would contend that good, well-coached teams find a way to win 1-run games, but I'm not prepared to back that up with statistical analysis of 1-run playoff/championship-caliber teams in D3 baseball over the last 6-8 years.

Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
And see this is a perfect example of the kind of horsecrap that frosts me. Austin is a patsy. Sul Ross State, Schreiner, East Texas Baptist, Ozarks, Caltech is one of the worst programs in the country. Occidental's not very good. There are several pretty sad teams in the NWC. The West has its warts like any other league.

Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
Chapman hasn't gone deep into the Series in all those years. Chapman winning it almost every year to me shows a lack of depth in the region. Other regions have strong programs that don't make it every year. Parity in a league shouldn't be confused with parity in a region. It's clear in the West there has been very little parity over the past decade.

I believe that a large part of the reason Chapman had less success in the Series had a lot to do with the the nature of their schedule. Being from sunny California they were able to spread out their schedule in a way that never left them reliant on more than 3-4 arms (and they had some great ones). Those 3-4 could get them through a regional (especially when it was only 4 teams, but even 6 is less than many other regions); however, when they were forced to play more games in a condensed schedule they lacked the pitching depth to win it all.

Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 08:19:49 PM
I rather like real debate rather than rah-rah foolishness because debate affords the opportunity to learn something through disagreement.

The whole argument started when he said, "Doesn't seem like either team played all that well."

It was merely a matter-of-fact statement that I think most objective baseball fans would agree with based on the stat-line. That doesn't mean that:
I hope Heaven will stick around and I hope the TU supporters will continue to support their team; however, I don't think there's any harm in anything Heaven's said. In fact, I appreciate an opposing vantage point that pushes me outside my comfort-zone and forces me to A.) come up with more supporting evidence and/or logic B.) resign to the fact they're right or C.) agree to disagree and move on.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: historymajor on April 16, 2012, 09:13:09 PM
Wow, so this is where the opinions have been hiding!  Too bad Trinity messed the bed on Good Friday, but it seems to have brought out the doubters!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 16, 2012, 10:52:09 PM
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on April 16, 2012, 08:38:06 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 11:59:39 AM
While it is often harsh, his assessments are usually spot on. It just so happens that when he attacks your team/conference/region, posters tend to get a little bent out of shape about it.

Candidly, he's more objective than most in my opinion and the breadth in which he examines D3 baseball is pretty impressive.

Though I've primarily lurked this year, I've participated on this forum since early 2007 and though I don't always agree, I certainly appreciate his analysis and perspective.

In my mind, these are fair points that added value to this forum (whether I agree with his analysis or not):

Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 15, 2012, 11:06:39 PM

Certainly true, but not really the point. The point is that Trinity with each one-run win runs a greater risk of a regression to the mean game that might come at the wrong time.

Winning 3 straight one-run games has to be considered a measure of fortune by any neutral individual. Certainly not something you can count on happening.

Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
But it's worth mentioning that NONE of those teams in their entire season won as many 1 run games as Trinity already has. To me it's a measure of how dominant a team you are. If you're not having to win very many one-run games but you're still winning a lot, then it's because you've been notably better than most of your opponents.

I would contend that good, well-coached teams find a way to win 1-run games, but I'm not prepared to back that up with statistical analysis of 1-run playoff/championship-caliber teams in D3 baseball over the last 6-8 years.

Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
And see this is a perfect example of the kind of horsecrap that frosts me. Austin is a patsy. Sul Ross State, Schreiner, East Texas Baptist, Ozarks, Caltech is one of the worst programs in the country. Occidental's not very good. There are several pretty sad teams in the NWC. The West has its warts like any other league.

Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
Chapman hasn't gone deep into the Series in all those years. Chapman winning it almost every year to me shows a lack of depth in the region. Other regions have strong programs that don't make it every year. Parity in a league shouldn't be confused with parity in a region. It's clear in the West there has been very little parity over the past decade.

I believe that a large part of the reason Chapman had less success in the Series had a lot to do with the the nature of their schedule. Being from sunny California they were able to spread out their schedule in a way that never left them reliant on more than 3-4 arms (and they had some great ones). Those 3-4 could get them through a regional (especially when it was only 4 teams, but even 6 is less than many other regions); however, when they were forced to play more games in a condensed schedule they lacked the pitching depth to win it all.

Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 08:19:49 PM
I rather like real debate rather than rah-rah foolishness because debate affords the opportunity to learn something through disagreement.

The whole argument started when he said, "Doesn't seem like either team played all that well."

It was merely a matter-of-fact statement that I think most objective baseball fans would agree with based on the stat-line. That doesn't mean that:

  • The players didn't play their asses off
  • That there's not something to be said for finding a way to win the 'ugly' games
  • That a series sweep in Arkansas isn't HUGE
I hope Heaven will stick around and I hope the TU supporters will continue to support their team; however, I don't think there's any harm in anything Heaven's said. In fact, I appreciate an opposing vantage point that pushes me outside my comfort-zone and forces me to A.) come up with more supporting evidence and/or logic B.) resign to the fact they're right or C.) agree to disagree and move on.

JSG

JSG.
I believe we have been posting about the same amount of time. Not sure I ever disagreed...until now.
My reasons:
1.) What our son and his teammates did or didn't do in missing Appleton by 1 game 2 different years is pretty irrelevant to judging this TU team or the West teams this year;
2.) If someone wants to express an opinion on a players performances based on a box score, say so. Stephen Piscotty's box score on Friday night for Stanford suggested he couldn't play D3. He likely will hear his name called on day one of the MLB draft.
3.) Since I have been posting, I don't know of many on the site who post  in such an arrogant way about their objectivity, knowledge and the like.  As an example, I have no idea who you are and you would never need to post who you are or your background. Your posts prove your knowledge of baseball and players. Bragging does not work well on the D3 baseball message board for me. Most who post here on the West Region know who I am. I don't hide. I did nothing on a baseball field. I have watched a lot of college and Milb baseball since 2000 and learned a ton from a smart player.  My view is I can read a box score, see who won, see some stats and have no idea if a hitters 3-4 were terrible AB's or a kids 0-4 were great AB's.
4.) I don't need anyone from a D3 message board flaming private emails my direction with angry allegations and concluding "I detest people like you." I'm way too old for that and D3 baseball has been way to much fun for our family to read slop like that in my personal email. 
While yours is an opinion I truly respect as much as any on D3 baseball, we come down on opposite sides of this one.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 11:02:13 PM
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on April 16, 2012, 08:38:06 PM

Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
But it's worth mentioning that NONE of those teams in their entire season won as many 1 run games as Trinity already has. To me it's a measure of how dominant a team you are. If you're not having to win very many one-run games but you're still winning a lot, then it's because you've been notably better than most of your opponents.

I would contend that good, well-coached teams find a way to win 1-run games, but I'm not prepared to back that up with statistical analysis of 1-run playoff/championship-caliber teams in D3 baseball over the last 6-8 years.

I would have been fine with being proven wrong there. I didn't know how the numbers were going to come out, though I obviously had my hypothesis, and I'll admit there is a minor correlation. And Marietta has been very good in one-run games this year as well (as they were last year). But Kean is built for low scoring games as well and didn't have the same record in 1-run games. But they also play in a more difficult league, so maybe that matters. That's the kind of thing I like about debates and assertions is it gives me (and anyone else) a chance to learn something by looking into it more deeply, similar to the allusion you made about yourself.

Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
Chapman hasn't gone deep into the Series in all those years. Chapman winning it almost every year to me shows a lack of depth in the region. Other regions have strong programs that don't make it every year. Parity in a league shouldn't be confused with parity in a region. It's clear in the West there has been very little parity over the past decade.

I believe that a large part of the reason Chapman had less success in the Series had a lot to do with the the nature of their schedule. Being from sunny California they were able to spread out their schedule in a way that never left them reliant on more than 3-4 arms (and they had some great ones). Those 3-4 could get them through a regional (especially when it was only 4 teams, but even 6 is less than many other regions); however, when they were forced to play more games in a condensed schedule they lacked the pitching depth to win it all.

Oh believe me I have a lot of respect for Chapman as a program. I was just saying that not every year they went to the Series did they have a great team that contended for the title, and that perhaps in other regions another team may have supplanted them in a few of those seasons. In general though, I do think the schedule = less depth argument is bogus. If you want to develop depth, you can. You don't have to throw your ace 100 innings just because you can.

One thing you're a lot better than me at is formatting posts on this board!


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 11:05:12 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 16, 2012, 10:52:09 PM
4.) I don't need anyone from a D3 message board flaming private emails my direction with angry allegations and concluding "I detest people like you." I'm way too old for that and D3 baseball has been way to much fun for our family to read slop like that in my personal email. 
While yours is an opinion I truly respect as much as any on D3 baseball, we come down on opposite sides of this one.

You're also apparently too old to know that it's considered poor form in many circles to bring private messages on a site into a public domain, especially completely out of context like this.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 16, 2012, 11:19:26 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 11:05:12 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 16, 2012, 10:52:09 PM
4.) I don't need anyone from a D3 message board flaming private emails my direction with angry allegations and concluding "I detest people like you." I'm way too old for that and D3 baseball has been way to much fun for our family to read slop like that in my personal email. 
While yours is an opinion I truly respect as much as any on D3 baseball, we come down on opposite sides of this one.

You're also apparently too old to know that it's considered poor form in many circles to bring private messages on a site into a public domain, especially completely out of context like this.

Perhaps it would be best not to send such emails, especially with such language in them.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 16, 2012, 11:42:33 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 11:05:12 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 16, 2012, 10:52:09 PM
4.) I don't need anyone from a D3 message board flaming private emails my direction with angry allegations and concluding "I detest people like you." I'm way too old for that and D3 baseball has been way to much fun for our family to read slop like that in my personal email. 
While yours is an opinion I truly respect as much as any on D3 baseball, we come down on opposite sides of this one.

You're also apparently too old to know that it's considered poor form in many circles to bring private messages on a site into a public domain, especially completely out of context like this.

I might be old but I am still running marathons and have a lot of fun.
I am always willing to post my views and thoughts on this site.   In my view, resorting to scorching my email with personal attacks, without having the courage to post on the site says a lot about you.
Now, trying to suggest you know what is good or poor "form in many circles" is even more ingenious.
In my "old age" I would propose  that "in many circles" your emails would be completely unacceptable.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 11:43:16 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 16, 2012, 11:19:26 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 11:05:12 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 16, 2012, 10:52:09 PM
4.) I don't need anyone from a D3 message board flaming private emails my direction with angry allegations and concluding "I detest people like you." I'm way too old for that and D3 baseball has been way to much fun for our family to read slop like that in my personal email. 
While yours is an opinion I truly respect as much as any on D3 baseball, we come down on opposite sides of this one.

You're also apparently too old to know that it's considered poor form in many circles to bring private messages on a site into a public domain, especially completely out of context like this.

Perhaps it would be best not to send such emails, especially with such language in them.

Wouldn't matter if I had sent a brisket recipe. Still out of bounds for me, and I would never do it. Meh, whatever.

So is there a particular reason the vast majority of the posts I see from you on D-III baseball of late are in directly in response to me?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 11:50:52 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 16, 2012, 11:42:33 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 11:05:12 PM
Quote from: infielddad on April 16, 2012, 10:52:09 PM
4.) I don't need anyone from a D3 message board flaming private emails my direction with angry allegations and concluding "I detest people like you." I'm way too old for that and D3 baseball has been way to much fun for our family to read slop like that in my personal email. 
While yours is an opinion I truly respect as much as any on D3 baseball, we come down on opposite sides of this one.

You're also apparently too old to know that it's considered poor form in many circles to bring private messages on a site into a public domain, especially completely out of context like this.

I might be old but I am still running marathons and have a lot of fun.

Terrif. I'm not the one that brought up age, for the record.

I am always willing to post my views and thoughts on this site.   In my view, resorting to scorching my email with personal attacks, without having the courage to post on the site says a lot about you.

What it most commonly means is that something was said that I didn't feel most of the board would give a crap about but wished to respond to you directly so as to avoid hijacking a thread. Like has been done to this one, for instance. I don't remember exactly when that email was, but I do know that in one case I was sent a private message by someone whose opinion counts a lot more on this site than yours thanking me for ceasing responding to people confronting me on a thread. So I'm guessing it probably was about that same time.

Now, trying to suggest you know what is good or poor "form in many circles" is even more ingenious.
In my "old age" I would propose  that "in many circles" your emails would be completely unacceptable.

And I find a lot of old aged people disingenuous in this way. It's as if no one ever said a cross word to anyone before 1968.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 17, 2012, 12:04:01 AM
Allow me to interject for a brief spell...

What all do we know about the top teams in the West right now?
I know the top teams in the NWC rely a lot on their pitching (sans Whitworth),
but I know next to nothing about the SCIAC teams. And I don't know too much
about the ASC, other than it seems very top heavy.

Anyone care to give me a brief (or detailed) run down of the top teams
as we get closer to the playoffs?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 17, 2012, 12:12:30 AM
JSG, I will not waste too much of my time going through all of the miss-informed, illogical posts he has put up here in the Western section. Here are a few, you can make your own mind up how insightful you think they are:

- First he puts down a very fine pitcher and a great kid.
- He insults one of the better coaches in DIII baseball
- He puts down Texans and Western baseball fans.
- Puts down the Trinity program and again goes personally after a very fine pitcher.
- Puts me down as well as a very fine Centenary team.
- Continues his personal attacks on Infielddad.

I don't have more time but if I did this would continue on for some time.

So these are all of the posts of an insightful and knowledgeable baseball fan?

I think not.
------------------------------------------



They couldn't beat Hardin-Simmons. 

The most telling thing to me is that this supposed top 5 round draft pick got beat by Hardin-Simmons's like 6th best.

As for throwing your aces in a mid-week game where you know the other team doesn't have its best, it shows a lack of confidence that your down the line guys can get it done, and it seems that lack of confidence was shown to be well-placed by how they did against Southwestern.

But it's a complete insult to your conference opponent. And completely foolish to open yourself up to a greater chance of not winning your division.

Hopefully the selection committee remembers why this happened...because Trinity's coach doesn't think they're good enough to beat a mid-table ASC West team without trying to stack the deck.

I love how the Lone Star lovers are trying to make this seem like spite or bitterness now when none of their teams have ever accomplished anything that would inspire either. It's even funnier that the one program that actually has won a regional from the state doesn't have a legion of sunshine pumpers on this board. Maybe you Tigger lovers could learn from them.


Once again the rabbit ears come out where Trinity's concerned.

3 one-run wins against a team without a prayer of a Pool C berth is surely evidence that Trinity is awesome. Get over yourselves.

The previous poster said Klimesh was his own worst enemy because of walks and HBPs. Doesn't sound like a very clean game from him. He also committed and error but Hendrix left the bases loaded in the first inning.

You made out like they had a D-I caliber lineup that was the best in D-III 1-6. Clearly you don't know jack squat about D-III or you wouldn't say that a lineup putting up those numbers against mostly mediocre competition was the best in the division.


And this is what I detest.

Tell ya what. If I want to defraud the workman comp system (pretty unlikely since I'm in the military, they don't really play that), I'll give you a call. Until then, how about you don't address me and I don't address you. You just go on helping people screw corporations out of money and I'll continue trying to use my skills to keep people from dying on battlefields. Deal?



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 17, 2012, 12:16:42 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 17, 2012, 12:12:30 AM
JSG, I will not waste too much of my time going through all of the miss-informed, illogical posts he has put up here in the Western section. Here are a few, you can make your own mind up how insightful you think they are:

- First he puts down a very fine pitcher and a great kid.
- He insults one of the better coaches in DIII baseball
- He puts down Texans and Western baseball fans.
- Puts down the Trinity program and again goes personally after a very fine pitcher.
- Puts me down as well as a very fine Centenary team.
- Continues his personal attacks on Infielddad.

I don't have more time but if I did this would continue on for some time.

So these are all of the posts of an insightful and knowledgeable baseball fan?

I think not.
------------------------------------------

Thin skin much? Holy crap. It's like anything said that doesn't glow about Trinity baseball or Texas is an insult. I don't know if you all realize it but you are playing the Texas stereotype to a "T".

In pursing your vendetta against me, you and the other thin skins on this board have now made another poster feel as if they have to "interject" with a post that's actually about West Region baseball. Well done.

Put down this, insult that, jeez you sound like a freaking child. And that was an insult. To children.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 17, 2012, 12:24:29 AM
You are an arrogant a$$ and in all of your spite and hate you cannot see it. I really feel sorry for you.

Westside I will put some stuff together later in the week from what I know of some of the SCIAC, ASC and SCAC West teams.



Late add:

And for you to think that this long diatribe against Infielddad is acceptable then your sense of decency is beyond reproach.

Good day sir.


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on April 17, 2012, 12:46:29 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 17, 2012, 12:24:29 AM
You are an arrogant a$$ and in all of your spite and hate you cannot see it. I really feel sorry for you.


I get the -k's and the veiled threats, while people are allowed to say things like this about me. I know they're not true and words spoken in ignorance, but it's the principle of it. The double standard is obvious except to those that wish not to see it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 17, 2012, 01:28:23 AM
Top 10 Overall Records in the West 4-17-2012
1) Concordia-Texas (30-6)
2) Trinity-Texas(29-6)
3) Texas-Tyler(28-8)
4) Texas-Dallas(25-12)
5) Texas-Lutheran(23-11)
6) La Verne(23-12)
7) Linfield(21-10)
8) Pacific Lutheran(21-11)
9) Pomona-Pitzer(21-12-1)
10) Witworth(20-12-1)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on April 17, 2012, 07:51:59 AM
I think Concordia is much better positioned to make a deep run in the regional. It appears to me they have the deepest pitching staff in the Region. What are everyone else's thoughts?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 17, 2012, 08:19:44 AM
Quote from: dp643 on April 17, 2012, 07:51:59 AM
I think Concordia is much better positioned to make a deep run in the regional. It appears to me they have the deepest pitching staff in the Region. What are everyone else's thoughts?
They certainly have a chance, with their three top starters being good and having a great bull pen.....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 17, 2012, 09:41:03 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 17, 2012, 12:46:29 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 17, 2012, 12:24:29 AM
You are an arrogant a$$ and in all of your spite and hate you cannot see it. I really feel sorry for you.


I get the -k's and the veiled threats, while people are allowed to say things like this about me. I know they're not true and words spoken in ignorance, but it's the principle of it. The double standard is obvious except to those that wish not to see it.

I think you bring it on yourself. I agree that post is also out of line, however, and I will act on it as necessary.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 17, 2012, 10:51:02 AM
Anyone know if Scott Weinschenk is hurt for Concordia. He was the #2 going into the season and was pitching very well. I noticed a month or so ago he disappeared in the Box scores. I know Tyler Grygar has stepped in and done a hell of job, but that is huge is Weinschenk is not in the rotation going forward.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 17, 2012, 10:53:32 AM
Concordia Texas
Team ERA 2.75 
Team Fielding % .967   
Team BA .301
Team OBA .416
Team Slg %.394

Trinity Texas
Team ERA 3.24 
Team Fielding % .971   
Team BA .308
Team OBA .404
Team Slg %.455

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 17, 2012, 11:38:54 AM
Ranked NCAA stats through 4/8

      CTX      TU
Scoring                100      141
Tripples              15      228
HR's      279        7
Stoln bases    51      225
BaseonBalls      1      19
Sac bunts      3      42
ERA       23      22
K's/9         8       1
Fielding                  13       6
K/Walk                   4       7
Hits alld/9     35       3

Pretty solid teams all the way around. Three game series could go either way IMO. I only saw CTX early in the season, so they have obviously improved. I was surprised by their scoring numbers, but it is clear they are a patient team, move runners into scoring position and are efficient at it. TU looked like a better hitting team when I saw them play, but maybe the power got my attention. TU has likely lost Lucero so a lot will depend if some of the other pitchers step up for TU. I think CTX should focus on winning their conference and if not hope that TU wins theirs as I think TU's numbers that the committee look at are superior if both should lose their conf tourneys. 

JohnnyU if you are around how did you get formatted numbers to list properly on the board?
   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2012, 12:11:35 PM
I don't have the time to go back to the compile the records of the teams in the Championship Sereis from the various regions over the last decade, but here are the teams in the Chmapionship game.  (Bold is champion; runner-up is italics.)

West Region --Chapman 2003, George Fox 2004, Chapman 2011

South -- CNU 2003, Emory 2007

New York -- Cortland 2005, Cortland 2010

New Engalnd -- ECSU 2004, Wheaton MA 2006, Trinity CT 2008

Midwest -- UW-Whitewater 2005, St Thomas 2009

Mideast -- Marietta 2006, Wooster 2009, Marietta 2011

Mid-Atlantic -- Kean 2007, JHU 2008

Central -- IWU 2010
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 17, 2012, 05:07:43 PM
Concordia won the West in 2002 in Georgetown against a very very talented Trinity team. The only West regional won by an ASC team ever I believe.

I think UT Tyler, Concordia or Trinity could very easily make it to Appleton with the depth they have at the plate and on the mound.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2012, 05:40:08 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 17, 2012, 05:07:43 PM
Concordia won the West in 2002 in Georgetown against a very very talented Trinity team. The only West regional won by an ASC team ever I believe.

I think UT Tyler, Concordia or Trinity could very easily make it to Appleton with the depth they have at the plate and on the mound.
That was back in the days of the 4-team regionals for some regions. You could win with only 3 pitchers.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 17, 2012, 06:09:15 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2012, 05:40:08 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 17, 2012, 05:07:43 PM
Concordia won the West in 2002 in Georgetown against a very very talented Trinity team. The only West regional won by an ASC team ever I believe.

I think UT Tyler, Concordia or Trinity could very easily make it to Appleton with the depth they have at the plate and on the mound.
That was back in the days of the 4-team regionals for some regions. You could win with only 3 pitchers.

I believe '05 was the last year of the 4 team regional when Chapman took a DH from Texas Lutheran on the final day behind great pitching performances from Scott Akamine and a young Billy Sulentor (I believe he was a FR) that year.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 17, 2012, 08:41:36 PM
I am a big UT Tyler fan but despite their record, I don't think they are as good this year as they have been in the past. I hope I am wrong. The east division of the ASC is basically a two team division this year and UTD took 2 out of 3 from UTT in Tyler. Both teams are fatting up the W-L records by sweeping weaker teams in the East. I thing UTT gets past the first round of the conference tournament but will not win it. Concordia and UTD are the teams to beat IMO. UTT might get a regional at large bid if they make it to the conference finals, but they won't go far. Doesn't sound like a fan but believe me I am, but also giving my realistic assessment.

Texas BB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 17, 2012, 11:14:42 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 17, 2012, 05:07:43 PM
Concordia won the West in 2002 in Georgetown against a very very talented Trinity team. The only West regional won by an ASC team ever I believe.

I think UT Tyler, Concordia or Trinity could very easily make it to Appleton with the depth they have at the plate and on the mound.
I am picking CTX to make to Appleton in 2012. SCIAC, NWC is down this year. Trinity losing its #2 pitcher will also have issues. No Chapman or Linfield or George Fox this year unless Linfield wins the NWC somehow.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 18, 2012, 11:35:26 AM
I didn't realize Trinity had a pitcher go down. Hopefully its nothing serious.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: DoubleSteal on April 18, 2012, 12:16:53 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 17, 2012, 10:51:02 AM
Anyone know if Scott Weinschenk is hurt for Concordia. He was the #2 going into the season and was pitching very well. I noticed a month or so ago he disappeared in the Box scores. I know Tyler Grygar has stepped in and done a hell of job, but that is huge is Weinschenk is not in the rotation going forward.
I don't believe he is hurt, he has just had some ups and downs.  He was never really a starter, except for in tournaments, but he did have the look of a guy who might be at one point.  Hays, Grygar, and Butschek have taken control of the rotation and to be honest the process of STARTER-->SPELBRING-->ULLMANN-->BALLGAME has been pretty effective.  Rupert is another guy who has made it very difficult for Weinschenk to get back into the rotation. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 18, 2012, 01:00:11 PM
Welcome to the Boards, doublesteal.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 22, 2012, 09:53:14 AM
Trinity dropped two in pretty ugly fashion at home to Austin College yesterday, committing five errors leading to ten runs in losing 2-8 and 10-11.     :-[
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 22, 2012, 10:38:19 AM
I posted this in the "ongoing" discussion. They pretty much took them out of the possibility of an at large bid after yesterday, they are going to have to win the SCAC tournament now. Not a very good showing getting ready for the tournament. Getting by BSC (and Millsaps, Hendrix...) without Lucero will not be easy. Their bats are getting better, but sloppy play, both defensively and offensively is not going to cut it. They are looking more like a long shot at this point in time.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 22, 2012, 12:10:03 PM
Concordia dropped two of three to TLU. Have to give credit to TLU as they gave it everything they had to sweep Concordia to win the West and host the Conference tourney. I hate to see this rivalry come to an end as these two teams always lay everything out there in this end of the year match up.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 22, 2012, 04:16:06 PM
Trinity righted the ship today won 10-0 in mercy shortened game -  7 innings. Barron goes the distance for the W. The positive thing for TU is that their bats are warming up. 12 hits today in 7, 17 in game 2 yesterday. (for the L  :o)  They will have to tighten up the defense and baserunning if they are going to make a run in the SCAC tournament. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 22, 2012, 04:54:35 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 22, 2012, 12:10:03 PM
Concordia dropped two of three to TLU. Have to give credit to TLU as they gave it everything they had to sweep Concordia to win the West and host the Conference tourney. I hate to see this rivalry come to an end as these two teams always lay everything out there in this end of the year match up.
Respectfully, CTX won 2 of 3 from TLU including the 15 inning final game of the season.

CTX finishes 17-4 in conference and hosts the tourney if they win the first weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 22, 2012, 05:15:57 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 22, 2012, 04:54:35 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 22, 2012, 12:10:03 PM
Concordia dropped two of three to TLU. Have to give credit to TLU as they gave it everything they had to sweep Concordia to win the West and host the Conference tourney. I hate to see this rivalry come to an end as these two teams always lay everything out there in this end of the year match up.
Respectfully, CTX won 2 of 3 from TLU including the 15 inning final game of the season.

CTX finishes 17-4 in conference and hosts the tourney if they win the first weekend.
He was correct, Ralph.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 22, 2012, 05:33:35 PM
Concordia was shutout the first two games, then won in the 15th to claim game 3.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 22, 2012, 06:13:33 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 22, 2012, 04:16:06 PM
Trinity righted the ship today won 10-0 in mercy shortened game -  7 innings. Barron goes the distance for the W. The positive thing for TU is that their bats are warming up. 12 hits today in 7, 17 in game 2 yesterday. (for the L  :o)  They will have to tighten up the defense and baserunning if they are going to make a run in the SCAC tournament.
Actually, Barron only went six; TU brought in a senior (Brandon Spriggs) for the first batter in the seventh, then Weston Haaf pitched the rest of the inning to keep AC off the board.  Much better play all around today and Barron was able to work out of some jams in the middle innings (allowing only one hit the first three innings). 

Ryan Lucero was there with a huge brace on his arm.  What a shame.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 22, 2012, 08:36:22 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 22, 2012, 05:33:35 PM
Concordia was shutout the first two games, then won in the 15th to claim game 3.
MY bad!  Thanks for the corrections.

Brain burp!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 22, 2012, 09:49:29 PM
Cough....sputter....spit....cough....cough... clunk....clunk....c.....o.....u.....g.....h......

That is the sound of the two Texas teams coming across the finish line. Yikes.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 23, 2012, 08:54:24 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 22, 2012, 09:49:29 PM
Cough....sputter....spit....cough....cough... clunk....clunk....c.....o.....u.....g.....h......

That is the sound of the two Texas teams coming across the finish line. Yikes.
Respectfully, I cannot say sputtering about CTX.

TLU needed to sweep the series with CTX to win the ASC-West and host the second weekend.  TLU's Orosey pitched a gem on Friday night and gave TLU a huge momentum boost.

I would call all of the scores in the ASC last weekend "playoff (win or go home) baseball". :)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 23, 2012, 11:46:37 AM
Rivalry, dominate pitching, ASC West on the line. Concordia fought off a scrappy TLU squad who threw everything and the kitchen sink at Boggs team in order to host the conference tournament in Seguin.

To say Concordia limped its way to close out the weekend is not the best way to state it. Then again you went to this series right?

Im sure the CTX players are not thinking 'yikes' being able to host the cross over and the conference tourney in Austin  with a series win this weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 23, 2012, 12:11:46 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 23, 2012, 11:46:37 AM
Rivalry, dominate pitching, ASC West on the line. Concordia fought off a scrappy TLU squad who threw everything and the kitchen sink at Boggs team in order to host the conference tournament in Seguin.

To say Concordia limped its way to close out the weekend is not the best way to state it. Then again you went to this series right?

Im sure the CTX players are not thinking 'yikes' being able to host the cross over and the conference tourney in Austin  with a series win this weekend.
I think what was implied was that if either TU or CUA had won 2-3, they would be a lock to get a Pool C bid.  Now, if TU doesn't win the conf tourney they will have 8 in-region losses and CUA will have 10.  10 or more in region losses puts you on the bubble with regards to Pool C bids, because the SOS in the West is diluted because of the challenges of scheduling.  I think that was all that was being implied.  CUA did what it needed to in order to give itself the best chance of winning the conf, it won one game that allowed it to host. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 23, 2012, 12:15:14 PM
I guess the yikes was directed more at the TU team. They lost 2 games...actually 4 that they had no business losing. They will likely have to pay for it if they don't win the SCAC tournament. As far as CTX, they really needed to win the TLU series in case they do not go on to win the ASC tournament. Each team did not do themselves any favors if they don't win their tournaments. The regional rankings will come out later this week, but it may be that TU gets regionally ranked above CTX. What happens in the tournament(s) will probably have a large part of deciding what happens from here out, but both teams would have been in a lot better shape had they taken care of business over the weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 23, 2012, 12:22:28 PM
Tigerfan beat me to it, and I get neither team is thinking anything other than going out and winning their tournaments, and I have seen both teams and they both are very capable, but as tigerfan pointed out neither one is in good shape for a pool C bid...maybe not the best use of words, neither one has made themselves stand out and be a clear cut favorite to get this bid, that's all. If they both go take care of business then it won't matter, but if they don't they have put the decision in someone else's hands and you don't want to do that.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 24, 2012, 01:22:26 AM
April 23rd

SCAC - Trinity
SCIAC - La Verne
ASC - Concordia-Texas
NWC - Pacific

Others - Texas Tyler, Texas-Dallas,
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 24, 2012, 11:09:21 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 24, 2012, 01:22:26 AM

Others - Texas Tyler, Texas-Dallas,

If you're going to put 27-13 UTD on there, 26-12 Texas Lutheran should be as well coming off what was very nearly a sweep of CTX.

EDIT:  fixed my broken quote box
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 24, 2012, 12:59:20 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 24, 2012, 01:22:26 AM
April 23rd

SCAC - Trinity
SCIAC - La Verne
ASC - Concordia-Texas
NWC - Pacific

Others - Texas Tyler, Texas-Dallas, Texas-Lutheran
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 24, 2012, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 24, 2012, 11:09:21 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 24, 2012, 01:22:26 AM

Others - Texas Tyler, Texas-Dallas,

If you're going to put 27-13 UTD on there, 26-12 Texas Lutheran should be as well coming off what was very nearly a sweep of CTX.

EDIT:  fixed my broken quote box

I agree with you, Ron. I don't think you can sleep on TLU, particularly after the series win at Concordia. I believe they're the ONLY ASC team that didn't lose a conference series this year: UT Dallas (LeTourneau), UT Tyler (UT Dallas), Concordia (TLU). You could make a good case for their pitching staff to be the best in the ASC as well -- though you could argue Concordia has more depth in the pen.

What would concern me if I was a TLU fan is the fact that a guy like Matt Stuart (Southwestern) with a 3-10 record and 6.40 ERA or a Matt Valley (Schreiner) 2-9 record 5.94 ERA can hold them to 0 ER during a game.

Do UT Tyler and UTD swing it better than the West teams? Perhaps, though maybe they just beat up on a weaker division (this year). Though, it's tough to find a guy in Concordia or TLU's line-ups that swing it like either Chick (Tyler) or Brown (Dallas).

Candidly, I think it's premature to count out ANY of the ASC playoff teams at this point, including those with losing records.

Looking forward to the tournament.

JSG

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 24, 2012, 05:05:37 PM
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on April 24, 2012, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 24, 2012, 11:09:21 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 24, 2012, 01:22:26 AM

Others - Texas Tyler, Texas-Dallas,

If you're going to put 27-13 UTD on there, 26-12 Texas Lutheran should be as well coming off what was very nearly a sweep of CTX.

EDIT:  fixed my broken quote box

I agree with you, Ron. I don't think you can sleep on TLU, particularly after the series win at Concordia. I believe they're the ONLY ASC team that didn't lose a conference series this year: UT Dallas (LeTourneau), UT Tyler (UT Dallas), Concordia (TLU). You could make a good case for their pitching staff to be the best in the ASC as well -- though you could argue Concordia has more depth in the pen.

What would concern me if I was a TLU fan is the fact that a guy like Matt Stuart (Southwestern) with a 3-10 record and 6.40 ERA or a Matt Valley (Schreiner) 2-9 record 5.94 ERA can hold them to 0 ER during a game.

Do UT Tyler and UTD swing it better than the West teams? Perhaps, though maybe they just beat up on a weaker division (this year). Though, it's tough to find a guy in Concordia or TLU's line-ups that swing it like either Chick (Tyler) or Brown (Dallas).

Candidly, I think it's premature to count out ANY of the ASC playoff teams at this point, including those with losing records.

Looking forward to the tournament.

JSG


This is only a point in time. I expect upsets in both ASC and the SCAC. I bet neither is won by the #1 seed. In another week you could have another team in the SCIAC and the NWC also. But for today this is what it looks like.
April 23rd

SCAC - Trinity
SCIAC - La Verne
ASC - Concordia-Texas
NWC - Pacific

Others - Texas Tyler, Texas-Dallas, Texas-Lutheran
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 26, 2012, 07:12:12 PM
The 1st Regional Rankings have come:

WEST            
1   Trinity (Texas)   29-6   32-8   
2   Concordia (Texas)   31-8   31-8   
3   Whitworth   22-7-1   23-13-1   
4   Pacific Lutheran   21-8   23-11   
5   La Verne   23-11   24-13   
6   Texas-Dallas   24-11   27-13
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/regional_rankings
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 26, 2012, 10:11:32 PM
I am somewhat surprised the UTT is not ranked in the West region. They had a 31-9 record and were Co-Champions of the East division of the ASC. They did loose 2 out of 3 to both CTX and UTD earlier in the season. However, on the last week of the seaon they finished strong sweeping Louisiana College, a team that made the playoffs in the ASC. UTD on the other hand the same weekend lost one game to ETBU and had to come from behind late in the other two games to preserve a share of East with UTT.

CTX finished 31-8 and lost 2 of 3 to TLU the last week of the season but is ranked #2 in the region.

Go figure?

Texas BB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 26, 2012, 10:54:06 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 26, 2012, 10:11:32 PM
I am somewhat surprised the UTT is not ranked in the West region. They had a 31-9 record and were Co-Champions of the East division of the ASC. They did loose 2 out of 3 to both CTX and UTD earlier in the season. However, on the last week of the seaon they finished strong sweeping Louisiana College, a team that made the playoffs in the ASC. UTD on the other hand the same weekend lost one game to ETBU and had to come from behind late in the other two games to preserve a share of East with UTT.

CTX finished 31-8 and lost 2 of 3 to TLU the last week of the season but is ranked #2 in the region.

Go figure?

Texas BB
Respectfully, it is what I figured.

Let's look at the criteria for UTT

The criteria for the regional rankings are listed in the Handbook.

From the Handbook...

The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA championships); all criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order).

●● Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.  22-8 (.714) Castleton State, Arlington Baptist and Freed-Hardeman don't count.
●● Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).  .4817 #266 in all of D-III
-- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP).
-- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).
See Appendix C on page 91 for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.

●● In-region head-to-head competition. 1-2 vs CTX, 1-2 vs UTD
●● In-region results versus common regional opponents.  Did not play anyone strong outside the ASC, e.g., Linfield, Trinity, LaVerne.  UTD went to Arizona and has a win over Pac Lu and a loss to LaVerne.  Both of those are "results".
●● In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.  (2-4)
-- Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at any time of the rankings/selection process.
●● Conference postseason contests are included.

I imagine that UTT is about #7 or #8. I think that the West only gets one Pool C bid this year, and that team will be from among the 6 listed.

I think that UTT must win the conference.

The criteria in 2013 will not have changed that much.  I recommend that UT-Tyler fly to Arizona for that tournament in February that usually has contenders from the West Region playing...

or fly to Chapman and play 3-4 games against SCIAC teams.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 26, 2012, 11:13:19 PM
Not trying to pick on UTT but let me dissect your post for the crtieria that count in the regional rankings

Quote from: TexasBB on April 26, 2012, 10:11:32 PM
I am somewhat surprised the UTT is not ranked in the West region.

They had a 31-9 record overall record is secondary criteria

and were Co-Champions of the East division of the ASC. (Might be considered in common opponents)

They did lose 2 out of 3 to both CTX and UTD earlier in the season. YES!

However, on the last week of the season they finished strong sweeping Louisiana College, a team that made the playoffs in the ASC. 3-0 record goes into the regional record,

UTD on the other hand the same weekend lost one game to ETBU considered in the in-region record and had to come from behind late in the other two games to preserve a share of East with UTT. Come from behind not considered.

CTX finished 31-8 and lost 2 of 3 to TLU the last week of the season but is ranked #2 in the region. The loss of the series is considered; "the last week" is not.

Go figure?

Texas BB

Thanks for the chance to explain my interpretation of the application of the Handbook criteria to new readers.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 26, 2012, 11:49:09 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 26, 2012, 10:11:32 PM
I am somewhat surprised the UTT is not ranked in the West region. They had a 31-9 record and were Co-Champions of the East division of the ASC. They did loose 2 out of 3 to both CTX and UTD earlier in the season. However, on the last week of the seaon they finished strong sweeping Louisiana College, a team that made the playoffs in the ASC. UTD on the other hand the same weekend lost one game to ETBU and had to come from behind late in the other two games to preserve a share of East with UTT.

CTX finished 31-8 and lost 2 of 3 to TLU the last week of the season but is ranked #2 in the region.

Go figure?

Texas BB
Not really
Low OWP, Low OOWP and Low SOS keeps you out of the Regional Rankings. Overall Record dont get you squat in the rankings. Winning a division of overall conference also dont count for any thing. Play a tougher schedule with teams with winning records outside your conference in the West Region. OR win your conference tourney and get the Pool A or you could be staying home hoping for a Pool C bid.

Check out the worksheet.
http://web1.ncaa.org/champsel_new/exec/staticpdfrank?doWhat=publicrankingsRedirect&sportCode=MBA&region=40&division=3
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 27, 2012, 01:20:17 PM
Ok guys I get it. Looks like UTT has to hit the road and dump some of their non DIV 3 close to home opponents. This is a budget issue and the school has not been willing to pay for the travel.

A couple of years ago they did go to Abilene when McMurray and HSU hosted a pre-season tournament. Marietta sent a team down but that is it. UTT has never traveled much. They put a lot of money into their facility but have not been successful in getting  top teams from outside of the ASC to travel to Tyler.   

This may partially explain why James Vilade left, I know he wanted to strengthen the schedule but if the school doesn't want to spend on travel your hands are tied.

UTT is unlikely to win the conference tournament. I believe they will get buy HSU but will fall in the double elimination round. They could come in second but even that will be tough. I don't think they have the pitching depth to match up with CTX.

Texas BB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 27, 2012, 02:49:22 PM
I think there are enough tough teams in region to get their SoS up. They just have to schedule the right ones. I would think with the new SCAC there would be enough teams available to schedule a decent schedule without having to go too far.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 27, 2012, 03:57:00 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 27, 2012, 02:49:22 PM
I think there are enough tough teams in region to get their SoS up. They just have to schedule the right ones. I would think with the new SCAC there would be enough teams available to schedule a decent schedule without having to go too far.
With the new configuration we may get a boost in this part of the country with TLU, Centenary and Trinity being in-region games.

The problem still remains with the small sample size that we have in Texas (~20-odd nearby teams).  Teams in the other parts of the country, e.g., Mid-Atlantic and New England can choose the better teams from 80-10 nearby schools.  The schools that do spring training in Florida may get 6-8 teams that in-region but outside the usual sphere of nearby contestants.

IMHO, the must-have tournament is the February Arizona tournament that brings the best teams from the West  Region. You can get 4 games against teams that have the resources to travel, which indirectly implies that the school is trying to back the program.

Coach Driggers at McMurry scheduled Chapman almost every year, home-and-home. 

Several teams have done the Arizona thing.  I recommend it to every team to do it on a regular if not annual basis.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 27, 2012, 03:58:28 PM
QuoteI think there are enough tough teams in region to get their SoS up. They just have to schedule the right ones. I would think with the new SCAC there would be enough teams available to schedule a decent schedule without having to go too far.

Once TLU leaves the ASC they become available to schedule. Trinity is available but hard to book since others closer to San Antonio have the same idea. The problem with the West Region and the ASC is how spread it is. East Texas to California is over 1,200 miles. Even going to San Antonio is long way from Tyler (8 hours one way by bus). Who wants to ride in a bus for 8 hours to play one game. The teams in the east don't face that kind of logistical problem.  The best bet is a group of teams coming to a common site for a tournament. Maybe half way, say New Mexico in the early spring.

Texas BB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 27, 2012, 04:05:21 PM
Ralph,

Didn't see your post until after I hit the send button. I fully agree with it. UTT needs to find the money to send its team to such a tournament. Why they have been hesitant thus far puzzels me. Perhaps getting frozen out of the regionals will wake them up. However, the powers that be in the administraion may not care about it. There are of course more pressing needs in running a university than spending money on the baseball team. Once you give baseball money then the other sports will come in looking for equal treatment.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 27, 2012, 06:36:54 PM
Besides some smaller roster sports like golf, UTT teams rarely leave Texas outside of ASC play. However, it appears to be a workable model for many of its other highly regarded programs like softball.

Baseball and volleyball schedules of elite teams nationwide tend to feature a good deal of travel. In many sports if you don't travel, your fate is determined by uncontrollable factors like the relative strength of your conference nationally. That relative strength is not yet there in baseball, but I think everyone knows that there are some great baseball teams in the ASC. It doesn't do any good in national selection terms when many of those great teams simply beat up on each other all season.

If you play in one of the country's largest conferences, and few of the conference teams travel in order to vary strength of schedule numbers, you must really stick out among your peers. Then again West Region teams are hamstrung by the fact that their options for better in-region nonconference play is to travel very, very far west; very, very far north; or cross your fingers and hope that those teams come to you instead of going to any number of other places during spring break. Even if the NCAA adopts the "game is a game/70 percent in-region" rule, the situation remains the same for West Region teams. Long-distance travel would still be required to improve strength of schedule numbers.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on April 28, 2012, 02:27:41 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 26, 2012, 07:12:12 PM
The 1st Regional Rankings have come:

WEST            
1   Trinity (Texas)   29-6   32-8   
2   Concordia (Texas)   31-8   31-8   
3   Whitworth   22-7-1   23-13-1   
4   Pacific Lutheran   21-8   23-11   
5   La Verne   23-11   24-13   
6   Texas-Dallas   24-11   27-13
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/regional_rankings

Crash -
Listed below are the West Region teams ranked by their SOS (as of 4-27).  Also listed is their ranking nationally.

It is interesting to see how the SOS did not seem to affect the Regional Rankings that much. 
Do you think this will impact the rankings in the coming weeks? 
How much will such low SOS affect these teams and their opportunity for Pool C if they fail to win their tournaments?


West Region Teams - Ranked by SOS
(national ranking in parentheses)

     TEAM               SOS        National Ranking:
1.  Chapman:              .575         #  13
2.  LaVerne              .532         #  86
3.  Puget Sound           .526         #120
4.  George Fox      .524         #127
5.  Willamette      .524         #128
6.  Claremont      .522         #136
7.  Hardin Simmons   .517         #152
8.  Redlands      .516         #159
9.  Pomona              .514         #169
10.  Occidental           .514         #170
11.  Whitworth           .511         #181
12.  Cal Lu              .510         #186
13.  Pac Lu              .503         #216
14.  Lewis & Clark   .503         #217
15.  Whittier      .502         #223
16.  Austin              .502         #224
17.  Miss. College           .501         #227
18.  Linfield              .498         #235
19.  Concordia –TX    .495         #242
20.  Whitman      .494         #249
21.  Texas – Dallas   .488         #262
22.  McMurry      .487         #269
23.  Texas – Tyler   .485         #266
24.  TLU              .483         #279
25.  U of Dallas           .481         #284
26.  Mary Hardin-B.   .481         #285
27.  Trinity              .479         #292   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 28, 2012, 08:40:26 AM
It's interesting how the teams are clumped by conference essentially. That could play a part in the rankings logic regarding SOS. We all know the unique struggles for West teams in that regard. I'm sure it doesn't escape the regional ranking committee either.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 28, 2012, 09:29:27 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on April 28, 2012, 02:27:41 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 26, 2012, 07:12:12 PM
The 1st Regional Rankings have come:

WEST            
1   Trinity (Texas)   29-6   32-8   
2   Concordia (Texas)   31-8   31-8   
3   Whitworth   22-7-1   23-13-1   
4   Pacific Lutheran   21-8   23-11   
5   La Verne   23-11   24-13   
6   Texas-Dallas   24-11   27-13
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/regional_rankings

Crash -
Listed below are the West Region teams ranked by their SOS (as of 4-27).  Also listed is their ranking nationally.

It is interesting to see how the SOS did not seem to affect the Regional Rankings that much. 
Do you think this will impact the rankings in the coming weeks? 
How much will such low SOS affect these teams and their opportunity for Pool C if they fail to win their tournaments?


West Region Teams - Ranked by SOS
(national ranking in parentheses)

     TEAM               SOS        National Ranking:    #of non-conference in-region games
1.  Chapman:              .575         #  13              (non-SCIAC 21)
2.  LaVerne              .532      #  86             ( 5; all in Arizona. GFox (2); UTD; PacLU; CTX)
3.  Puget Sound           .526         #120             ( in-region record is 7-22-1)
4.  George Fox      .524         #127             (8; 3 with Chapman and 5 in Ariz; LaVerne (2), CMS CTX and UTD)
5.  Willamette      .524         #128             (one; in-region record 8-14)
6.  Claremont      .522         #136             (4 in Arizona; Linfield; GFox, UTD, McMurry)     
7.  Hardin Simmons   .517         #152            (3; Southwestern; Trinity (2); plus UTD (3) and the crossover series with MssColl (3))
8.  Redlands      .516         #159              (1; Austin College)
9.  Pomona       .514              #169              (3; Whitworth, Puget Sound (2))
10.  Occidental           .514         #170              (6; Whitworth (3); Austin College (3))
11.  Whitworth           .511         #181
12.  Cal Lu              .510         #186
13.  Pac Lu              .503         #216
14.  Lewis & Clark   .503         #217
15.  Whittier      .502         #223
16.  Austin              .502         #224
17.  Miss. College           .501         #227
18.  Linfield              .498         #235
19.  Concordia –TX    .495         #242
20.  Whitman      .494         #249
21.  Texas – Dallas   .488         #262
22.  McMurry      .487         #269
23.  Texas – Tyler   .485         #266
24.  TLU              .483         #279
25.  U of Dallas           .481         #284
26.  Mary Hardin-B.   .481         #285
27.  Trinity              .479         #292
The Arizona series helped some of the teams.  Look at the head-to-head games that the better teams got by going to Arizona.  A result is a result.  The teams that went to Arizona played 4 or 5 games in that long weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 28, 2012, 10:09:19 AM
Interesting Ricky, I did not think it would be grouped as much regionally as this, but it makes sense. I think it would behoove some of the Texas teams to get out for the Ariz tournament, or do a 4 day trip to Ca for 5 games or so. I like the TU/Chapman home and away and will be curious if TU gets some more games in when they go to Ca next year.

Trinity probably sealed a C bid by beating Dallas yesterday.  A big game today vs Trinity - Birmingham Southern.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 28, 2012, 10:50:31 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on April 28, 2012, 02:27:41 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 26, 2012, 07:12:12 PM
The 1st Regional Rankings have come:

WEST            
1   Trinity (Texas)   29-6   32-8   
2   Concordia (Texas)   31-8   31-8   
3   Whitworth   22-7-1   23-13-1   
4   Pacific Lutheran   21-8   23-11   
5   La Verne   23-11   24-13   
6   Texas-Dallas   24-11   27-13
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/regional_rankings

Crash -
Listed below are the West Region teams ranked by their SOS (as of 4-27).  Also listed is their ranking nationally.

It is interesting to see how the SOS did not seem to affect the Regional Rankings that much. 
Do you think this will impact the rankings in the coming weeks? 
How much will such low SOS affect these teams and their opportunity for Pool C if they fail to win their tournaments?


West Region Teams - Ranked by SOS
(national ranking in parentheses)

     TEAM               SOS        National Ranking:
1.  Chapman:              .575         #  13
2.  LaVerne              .532         #  86
3.  Puget Sound           .526         #120
4.  George Fox      .524         #127
5.  Willamette      .524         #128
6.  Claremont      .522         #136
7.  Hardin Simmons   .517         #152
8.  Redlands      .516         #159
9.  Pomona              .514         #169
10.  Occidental           .514         #170
11.  Whitworth           .511         #181
12.  Cal Lu              .510         #186
13.  Pac Lu              .503         #216
14.  Lewis & Clark   .503         #217
15.  Whittier      .502         #223
16.  Austin              .502         #224
17.  Miss. College           .501         #227
18.  Linfield              .498         #235
19.  Concordia –TX    .495         #242
20.  Whitman      .494         #249
21.  Texas – Dallas   .488         #262
22.  McMurry      .487         #269
23.  Texas – Tyler   .485         #266
24.  TLU              .483         #279
25.  U of Dallas           .481         #284
26.  Mary Hardin-B.   .481         #285
27.  Trinity              .479         #292   

SOS is just one of the criteria used to rank teams.

It is not the only criteria .....Notice the West Regional Rankings had the #1 for each conference. Yesterday La Verne won the SCIAC conference and the Pool A bid. Trinity and CTX had the best in region winning percentage and best overall record also

Trinity will get a Pool C if it loses the SCAC conference Tourney. I believe Concordia-TX will also. SCIAC and NWC will not get a Pool C...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 28, 2012, 12:15:40 PM
If CTX should lose the first game today against Louisiana ...  31-10 with four losses in their last five games.  OK, so the latter is not a ranking criteria, but it makes you wonder. 


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 28, 2012, 12:59:27 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 26, 2012, 07:12:12 PM
The 1st Regional Rankings have come:

WEST            
1   Trinity (Texas)   29-6   32-8   30-6    33-8 thru the UDallas game on 4/27
2   Concordia (Texas)   31-8   31-8      31-9   31-9 thru the Miss College loss on 4/27
3   Whitworth   22-7-1   23-13-1    has 3-game series this weekend against Whitman 5-16 and 5-31 ("1/2" game behind Pacific in NWC. Whitworth won the series 2 games to 1.)
4   Pacific Lutheran   21-8   23-11   has 3-game series with Pacific whom they trail by 2 games    
5   La Verne   23-11   24-13   
6   Texas-Dallas   24-11   27-13 24-12 27-14 after loss to McMurry on 4/27.
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/regional_rankings
I don't think that Concordia has a lock, yet.  They need to sweep today, to play a few more games, next weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 28, 2012, 04:11:47 PM
Birmingham-Southern defeats Trinity today, 5-3.

Edit:  Trinity faces Millsaps again at 7pm CDT to see who gets to the championship.   Josh Fink is about the only starter they have left that hasn't seen action. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Piobark on April 30, 2012, 10:50:48 AM
Congrats to Whitworth!!! They were a fun team to watch - coming out of nowhere to become champs of the NWC...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 01, 2012, 02:14:56 AM
Wow West Region has fallen off in 2012. Only 3 Texas team in top 25. No SCIAC or NWC Conference Champion teams, NWC has Linfield How/Why did they receive a vote. No other teams received votes. Maybe they fly in 2 teams outside West Region into West Regional.

2012 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25 week 10

Through games of Sunday, April 29
#    School (1st votes)    Rec    Pts    Prev.
13    Trinity (Texas)    34-10    300    8
16    Concordia (Texas)    33-9    216    14
20    Texas-Tyler    33-10    146    18

Others receiving votes:  Linfield 3,
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2012, 03:22:41 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 01, 2012, 02:14:56 AM
Wow West Region has fallen off in 2012. Only 3 Texas team in top 25. No SCIAC or NWC Conference Champion teams, NWC has Linfield How/Why did they receive a vote. No other teams received votes. Maybe they fly in 2 teams outside West Region into West Regional.

2012 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25 week 10

Through games of Sunday, April 29
#    School (1st votes)    Rec    Pts    Prev.
13    Trinity (Texas)    34-10    300    8
16    Concordia (Texas)    33-9    216    14
20    Texas-Tyler    33-10    146    18

Others receiving votes:  Linfield 3,
Yes, the West is down, but there is incredible parity in the West this season.

If Whitworth wins the West and has a good showing in Wisconsin, then the voters will need to re-assess the Northwest Conference.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 01, 2012, 08:53:24 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2012, 03:22:41 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 01, 2012, 02:14:56 AM
Wow West Region has fallen off in 2012. Only 3 Texas team in top 25. No SCIAC or NWC Conference Champion teams, NWC has Linfield How/Why did they receive a vote. No other teams received votes. Maybe they fly in 2 teams outside West Region into West Regional.

2012 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25 week 10

Through games of Sunday, April 29
#    School (1st votes)    Rec    Pts    Prev.
13    Trinity (Texas)    34-10    300    8
16    Concordia (Texas)    33-9    216    14
20    Texas-Tyler    33-10    146    18

Others receiving votes:  Linfield 3,
Yes, the West is down, but there is incredible parity in the West this season.

If Whitworth wins the West and has a good showing in Wisconsin, then the voters will need to re-assess the Northwest Conference.
I expect a team or teams being sent to the West Regionals from outside the Westl. I also expect a team from outside the West winning the West Regional....Maybe St Thomas is that team...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 01, 2012, 09:41:05 AM
Crash is probably right, however I would not want to be the higher ranked team and have to face Trinity with Klimesh on the hill for the first game. (assuming they get in)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 01, 2012, 10:42:17 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 01, 2012, 09:41:05 AM
Crash is probably right, however I would not want to be the higher ranked team and have to face Trinity with Klimesh on the hill for the first game. (assuming they get in)
Trinity may not be the #1 seed in the West Regional if someone like St. Thomas is brought in. So who knows if Klimesh would even be the matchup depending on the seeding and how the schedule lines up.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 01, 2012, 12:10:29 PM
Crash I was thinking that TU would not be ranked number 1 in the West since they did not win their tournament and would end up being a lower seed, and would be facing a higher seed, which IMO would not be an ideal match up for the higher ranked team, but I am not familiar with how they set up the brackets. I will go take a look at last year's.

You are correct about the hotel situation at the site, most of the decent rooms are all 30 miles away.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 01, 2012, 12:11:51 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 01, 2012, 10:42:17 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 01, 2012, 09:41:05 AM
Crash is probably right, however I would not want to be the higher ranked team and have to face Trinity with Klimesh on the hill for the first game. (assuming they get in)
Trinity may not be the #1 seed in the West Regional if someone like St. Thomas is brought in. So who knows if Klimesh would even be the matchup depending on the seeding and how the schedule lines up.

Regardless of seed, I doubt Trinity wants to risk the losers' bracket after the first game.  All the teams in the regional are going to be quality; Coach Scannell will likely start Ben and hope to get to the final day so he can get a few relief innings out of him then.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2012, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 01, 2012, 10:42:17 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 01, 2012, 09:41:05 AM
Crash is probably right, however I would not want to be the higher ranked team and have to face Trinity with Klimesh on the hill for the first game. (assuming they get in)
Trinity may not be the #1 seed in the West Regional if someone like St. Thomas is brought in. So who knows if Klimesh would even be the matchup depending on the seeding and how the schedule lines up.
On other boards Pat Coleman has typed several times, and in my opinion and recollection, the higher seeds are usually kept in-region and the lower seeds are the ones that are shipped out.  (Only exception is Mount Union in northeast Ohio which is close to the East Region.  IMHO, the East Football Region rarely has a team that is a legitimate #1 seed.)

I would be very surprised if #1 Tommies (or even Midwest Region #2) is shipped out of the Midwest.  That plane flight makes it very expensive for you fans to follow.

IMHO, fly a lowly ranked, the "last Pool C bid" or someone who is just glad to be in the playoffs to Oregon.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 01, 2012, 04:45:58 PM
What in the world happened to the West Region? 3-4 years ago all we were talking about this time of year is who is getting screwed out of a Pool C. This year all we can talk about is how we can't fill the tournament with west teams. What in the world happened?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on May 01, 2012, 05:39:41 PM
dp - The reality is there are 3.5 conferences in the west. You will end up with 3 pool A's; we no longer have the Pool B's of a few years ago. What is left is for teams to build a record which is Pool C quality. For the most part they are very competitive which creates a degree of parity. That along with the true distances that makes travel cost prohibitive you get results like this year. It is not a matter of finding teams; it is developing a methodology which fits the D3 format for picking regional qualifiers (i.e. Pool C candidates).

Effectively there are three distinct areas of competition (NW, SoCal & Tx). Because each conference is a 2 hour flight from each other competition within the region is limited. Hence using the formula's the three componets that make up the regional rankings will be lower becuase it is a "zero sum" game (example - the best teams will always have a low sos if they only play within their conference). The only way to improve your numbers is through cross polinization which is difficult because of distance.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 01, 2012, 06:12:39 PM
There has always been Parity. In 2008 I believe the ASC alone had 4 teams with 30+ wins. Are there 4 teams total in the west this year with 30 wins?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on May 01, 2012, 06:13:15 PM
To add, Whitworth (for example) played 7 games against DII and NAIA opponents. Pacific played 11. Willamette played 12. You get the idea.

Compare that to Wheaton (Mass.) who only played against DIII opponents. I just did a quick glance at a couple of NE teams and this was a pretty common theme.

Now, I don't know a ton about baseball's regional rankings but I know plenty about football and basketball in the NWC and being on a DIII island has hurt our teams in those sports in the past. Not having those extra "in region" games doesn't help your Pool C resume. I'd assume baseball is no different.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2012, 10:25:26 PM
Wow!!!

The last three posts are something!  dp643 asked a good question that required in-depth understanding of the nature of D-III and the responses flowed quickly and accurately.  The assertions were substantiated by fact.

In December 2005, Pat Coleman let me start up the baseball message boards.  I knew that there must serious D-III baseball fans, just as we had on the football and men's and women's hoops boards.  Pat knew that Jim Dixon had a great website that had been on the Bridgewater College server for about a decade.   Having a strong group of D-III Baseball Fans would make Jim's website evevn more valuable as a tool for improving D-III Baseball and its following.

Here we are in our 7th baseball season, and we understand who is strong this year, which region is having a great year, what it takes to earn an at-large bid, etc.  And we have great cyber-friends with whom we can discuss the sports we like best.

THIS IS FUN.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 03, 2012, 04:42:37 PM
Latest West Regional rankings:

WEST            
1   Trinity (Texas)   31-8   34-10   
2   Concordia (Texas)   33-9   33-9   
3   Whitworth   25-7-1   26-13-1   
4   Pacific Lutheran   22-10   24-13   
5   La Verne   24-12   25-14   
6   Pomona-Pitzer   23-11   25-12-1

Can CTX overtake Trinity if they win the ASC tourney this weekend?  36-9 vs 31-8 if they go undefeated, right?  Trinity does have the H2H win earlier in the season, true ...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 03, 2012, 04:51:47 PM
CTX, if they win their tourney, deserves to overtake TU.  They have a better record and should have a higher RPI.  If they dont win the tourney, it will be interesting to see which Team gets the first Pool C bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 03, 2012, 05:56:03 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 03, 2012, 04:42:37 PM
Latest West Regional rankings:

WEST            
1   Trinity (Texas)   31-8   34-10   
2   Concordia (Texas)   33-9   33-9   
3   Whitworth   25-7-1   26-13-1   
4   Pacific Lutheran   22-10   24-13   
5   La Verne   24-12   25-14   
6   Pomona-Pitzer   23-11   25-12-1

Can CTX overtake Trinity if they win the ASC tourney this weekend?  36-9 vs 31-8 if they go undefeated, right?  Trinity does have the H2H win earlier in the season, true ...
I dont see all 6 teams making it to Oregon. Trinity TX, Concordia, TX, Whitworth, La Verne....BUT who will be the last 2.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 03, 2012, 07:45:45 PM
PLU has the opportunity to run their in-region record to 24-10 this weekend, as they play non-conference games against against quality conference foes Linfield and George Fox.  Maybe on paper this gives them a remote shot of getting a bid to travel from Tacoma to McMinnville for the Regional?

The problem I have with PLU is that they lost 2 of 3 in each of their conference series to Pacific, Linfield and Whitworth.  They did take 3 of 4 from Chapman in Orange, and beat eventual SCIAC champ La Verne early in the season, but the only high quality conference foe they took a series from was George Fox. 

Pacific cooked their goose by playing 11 games against NAIA or D2 squads, including losing I believe 6 of 7 against such squads in Hawaii to kick off the season.  They were 20 - 6 against D3 opponents overall.  Should have have traveled to Arizona and/or So Cal instead, because they were a strong team that had quality wins.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 03, 2012, 10:22:05 PM
Trinity looses twice last weekend and in their conference tourney and are still the top ranked team in the West. Concordia has lost 3 of their last 6 games and is still ranked 2nd.

I just don't think the system works well in the west. The West Region is just too spread out. It is like one poster said earlier - 3 divisions. NW, SCAL and Texas. There is nothing in common between the teams that are in the NW part of the Region and the teams from Texas. The weather significantly different, they are 2 times zones away and never play each other execpt at the regionals. Common opponents is a stretch. The closest is when they each play teams from S Cal. Head to head say Linfield against UTT or CTX just does not happen.

I think it is time we have sub-regionals 4 teams playing in each sub-regional in a double elimination format. The winners of the the 3 sub regional plus one other wild card a second team from the sub region with most teams, would play in the regional double elimination. Similar to what is done at D-I.  6 teams in a regional just doesn't get if for me. The regional rankings need to broken into sub-regions as well. This means that a total of 12 teams will be playing in the post season tournaments not 6. Since the sub-regional tournaments would be held within the sub-region their would not be alot of travel expense.

I am tired hearing about how the NCAA just doesn't have the money for an expanded region and somehow it is ithe schools fault for not spending money to travel to play "quality" opponenets to improve thier SOS etc. We need to stop making excuses for the NCAA. Bottom line is they just don't want to spend any more $$ on DIII level baseball. The schools are getting preasure to keep their tution and costs in line. However, with the current system, it is the schools that are being told, in effect, that they are just being cheap or are not willing to properly support their program, unless they are willing to spend more and travel more duing the regular season. Sorry, I am not buying the snake oil anymore.

Texas BB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on May 03, 2012, 10:46:15 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 03, 2012, 10:22:05 PMI am tired hearing about how the NCAA just doesn't have the money for an expanded region and somehow it is ithe schools fault for not spending money to travel to play "quality" opponenets to improve thier SOS etc. We need to stop making excuses for the NCAA. Bottom line is they just don't want to spend any more $$ on DIII level baseball *sports in general. The schools are getting preasure to keep their tution and costs in line. However, with the current system, it is the schools that are being told, in effect, that they are just being cheap or are not willing to properly support their program, unless they are willing to spend more and travel more duing the regular season. Sorry, I am not buying the snake oil anymore.

Texas BB

*fixed
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2012, 11:16:15 PM
Let 's analyze your statement.  :)

Quote from: TexasBB on May 03, 2012, 10:22:05 PM
Trinity loses twice last weekend and in their conference tourney and are still the top ranked team in the West.   I look at this like NASCAR.  Greg Biffle was 6 seconds ahead of Tony Stewart in the previous lap. Now his lead is only 2 seconds. Trinity had a result versus a regionally ranked team -- a loss which is still a result.

Concordia has lost 3 of their last 6 games and is still ranked 2nd.   They went .500 over the last 2 weekends.  You know how hard it is to raise the batting average by 10 points in September.  Going .500 in games #38 thru #43 is the same thing.   #3 Whitworth in both rankings went 3-0 against Whitman (5-34).  Who did Whitworth beat to leap frog CTX?  #4 Pac Lu lost 2 of 3 from NWC co-champ Pacific in the last weekend.

I just don't think the system works well in the west. The West Region is just too spread out. It is like one poster said earlier - 3 divisions. NW, SCAL and Texas. There is nothing in common between the teams that are in the NW part of the Region and the teams from Texas. The weather significantly different,  they are 2 times zones away (Weather and time zones are not a criteria.)  and never play each other execpt at the regionals.  Common opponents is a stretch. The closest is when they each play teams from S Cal. Head to head say Linfield against UTT or CTX just does not happen. (Actually they did.  The February Arizona "confab" had Cal Lu, SRSU, Linfield, CMS, UTD, McMurry, LaVerne, Pac Lu, Whittier, George Fox and Whitman each playing 3-5 games.   The teams in italics are still in the hunt.  UT-D, Cal Lu, Whittier, Linfield and George Fox all had respectable seasons with solid runs towards the conference pennant.  UTT and CTX is much more likely to happen in a 12-team ASC. I will propose this.  If UT-Tyler had played 5 credible games in the February Arizona "confab" instead of 5 games against Castleton State and Arlington Baptist, I'll bet that they would be in the regional rankings at about #4, #5 or #6)

I think it is time we have sub-regionals 4 teams playing in each sub-regional in a double elimination format. The winners of the the 3 sub regional plus one other wild card a second team from the sub region with most teams, would play in the regional double elimination. Similar to what is done at D-I.  6 teams in a regional just doesn't get if for me. The regional rankings need to broken into sub-regions as well. This means that a total of 12 teams will be playing in the post season tournaments not 6. Since the sub-regional tournaments would be held within the sub-region their would not be alot of travel expense.

(We already have sub-regionals. They are called conferences.   ;))

I am tired hearing about how the NCAA just doesn't have the money for an expanded region  (my italics) and somehow it is the schools fault for not spending money to travel to play "quality" opponenets to improve thier SOS etc. (I think that the real question here is missed class time.  D-III has a focus on student-athletes and a regional orientation.  Now if a school wishes to have a different focus on its athletic competition, then D-II with its regional format and partial athletic scholarships or D-I is an option.)  We need to stop making excuses for the NCAA. Bottom line is they just don't want to spend any more $$ on DIII level baseball. (The current March Madness contract is where the money came for D-III to have 16 Pool C bids instead of 3 Pool C baseball bids like they had in the early 2000's.) The schools are getting preasure to keep their tution and costs in line. However, with the current system, it is the schools that are being told, in effect, that they are just being cheap or are not willing to properly support their program, unless they are willing to spend more and travel more duing the regular season. Sorry, I am not buying the snake oil anymore.

Texas BB
Thanks
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2012, 11:23:35 PM
 :)

SRSU to Phoenix AZ  10 hours and 7 mins

SRSU to UT-Tyler   10 hours and 6 mins.   LOL
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 03, 2012, 11:23:56 PM
I get what you are saying TexasBB, but the system works about as good as it can given the limitations on money. I don't see this changing, given that the NCAA is funding a lot of sports other than baseball with all of this money is coming out of the final four D1 basketball tournament. Teams just need to know how the system works and go out and beat their in region competitors and realize these are the important games they play.

Generally the top teams get  to the Regional tournament, where it is probably unfair is the lack of national seeding at the Regionals. From what I have seen TU and CTX are the best of the Texas teams and have separated themselves from the others over the season. You get a team from Ca and the Nwest, two from Texas and then one other from somewhere from the group. The difficulty happens when you start to get down the seeding list and the borderline teams get left out. (or not) There is always someone regardless how many teams you have will say they deserved to be in the tournament.

It is just difficult when you are one of those borderline teams, but no matter how many you have there will always be some.

**late add Ralph did a much better job than I just did....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2012, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 03, 2012, 11:23:56 PM
I get what you are saying TexasBB, but the system works about as good as it can given the limitations on money. I don't see this changing, given that the NCAA is funding a lot of sports other than baseball with all of this money is coming out of the final four D1 basketball tournament. Teams just need to know how the system works and go out and beat their in region competitors and realize these are the important games they play.

Generally the top teams get  to the Regional tournament, where it is probably unfair is the lack of national seeding at the Regionals. From what I have seen TU and CTX are the best of the Texas teams and have separated themselves from the others over the season. You get a team from Ca and the Nwest, two from Texas and then one other from somewhere from the group. The difficulty happens when you start to get down the seeding list and the borderline teams get left out. (or not) There is always someone regardless how many teams you have will say they deserved to be in the tournament.

It is just difficult when you are one of those borderline teams, but no matter how many you have there will always be some.

**late add Ralph did a much better job than I just did....
Not necessarily better..

but definitely synergy of thought.

Almost synoptic in understanding and insight...

Great minds on the same channel...  :)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 03, 2012, 11:42:31 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 03, 2012, 10:22:05 PM
Trinity looses twice last weekend and in their conference tourney and are still the top ranked team in the West. Concordia has lost 3 of their last 6 games and is still ranked 2nd.



All that matters is that according to the primary selection criteria (SOS and in-region winning percentage), Trinity and Concordia still have the RPI ratings that place them in their appropriate "regional ranking" position (even with their recent losses factored in).  As of Monday, Trinity's RPI was .570 and Concordia's was .567.  If the selection committee adheres to the criteria, their personal opinions should not come into play for ranking teams.     
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2012, 11:54:49 PM
From the Handbook

The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA championships); all criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order)  [my italics...].

●● Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
●● Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
-- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP).
-- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).
See Appendix C on page 91 for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.

●● In-region head-to-head competition.
●● In-region results versus common regional opponents.
●● In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.
-- Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at any time of the rankings/selection process.
●● Conference postseason contests are included.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on May 04, 2012, 12:03:50 AM
While I think about the system and how it works, I wonder if in a year or two will the Chapman fans miss "the good old days" of being an independent? They have done such a good job of "working the system." The have been able pick their schedule, commit to travel and as result the have benefited both in terms of team quality, but more so they have insured their place in the regions by having a very strong SOS (as well as managing the other quantitative measures).

The teams that have committed to travel year in and year out benefit come tournament time. Cost effectively killed the SCAC (the new SCAC is clearly not the same conference).

Over the next two weeks the boards will be full of discussion, mostly by those regions where teams can play beyond their conference, that this team or that has better numbers because the system favors geographic areas with multiple conferences. That is how the system works, I have always thought that it stinks. What frustrates me the most is the blind greed and indifference that the NCAA applies to D3. The system works fine for them, yet it truely does little to help schools overcome today's economics and the impact it has on what truly should be but is not a national championship.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 04, 2012, 12:13:31 AM
QuoteOver the next two weeks the boards will be full of discussion, mostly by those regions where teams can play beyond their conference, that this team or that has better numbers because the system favors geographic areas with multiple conferences. That is how the system works, I have always thought that it stinks. What frustrates me the most is the blind greed and indifference that the NCAA applies to D3. The system works fine for them, yet it truely does little to help schools overcome today's economics and the impact it has on what truly should be but is not a national championship.

Well stated.

Six teams in the most diverse region in the country with the greatest distances is the problem. Especially when it looks like one team is not going to be from the west. A new way of looking at this and how the teams are ranked, at least for this region is needed.

However, I doubt the NCAA changes.

How many more teams will leave D III from the west if this continues.
Texas BB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 04, 2012, 12:57:21 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 04, 2012, 12:13:31 AM
QuoteOver the next two weeks the boards will be full of discussion, mostly by those regions where teams can play beyond their conference, that this team or that has better numbers because the system favors geographic areas with multiple conferences. That is how the system works, I have always thought that it stinks. What frustrates me the most is the blind greed and indifference that the NCAA applies to D3. The system works fine for them, yet it truely does little to help schools overcome today's economics and the impact it has on what truly should be but is not a national championship.

Well stated.

Six teams in the most diverse region in the country with the greatest distances is the problem. Especially when it looks like one team is not going to be from the west. A new way of looking at this and how the teams are ranked, at least for this region is needed.

However, I doubt the NCAA changes.

How many more teams will leave D III from the west if this continues.
Texas BB
If what continues? In many years the West regional is populated by six West Region teams. That's a healthy percentage of the regional pie.

This year there may not be six West teams so the sky is falling and the NCAA must change its selection rules that have been in place for a long time? The same rules that everyone knows ahead of time and have afforded very steady representation of West Region programs?

The region may have had a down season relatively. I repeat, "may!" The West regional could still have six West Region teams, but why can't a region just have a down season and leave it at that? It happens.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on May 04, 2012, 01:14:33 AM
TexasBB,
The two West Region teams that left DIII are both in Northern CA.  Menlo and Cal State Hayward.
They left because they had no teams to play in Northern CA which were DIII.
Menlo is now NAIA. I don't believe they are offering baseball scholarships. Their travel is about the same as when they were D3, but the highs and lows of the competition have broadened, in my view. Does UTT have that type of option if they are not going to invest more $$$$ for the NAIA or D2 approach?  If they invested a few more $$$, would they get a better return at the D3 level?
While cost/travel was offered as the reason for the demise of the SCAC of the past, that is the reason offered but perhaps not the, universally,  true reason.
Right now, their is one athletic department from a school leaving the SCAC which is  pushing very hard to rejoin the SCAC.
Schools leaving the SCAC which  heavily recruited Texas for players(not just baseball) and top students are realizing the potential impact of leaving the SCAC.
They are less likely to get them going forward. The coaching staffs in all sports know that.
Going forward, Trinity is committed to build a new baseball field to host Regionals.
Next year they will travel to Chapman and similar plans exist going forward beyond next year.
What Ralph and Jim in conjunction with the D3 website have done is so great for D3 sports and D3 baseball.
In 2002, TU had, perhaps, the best team it has ever had, but lost to Southwestern for the AQ in the tournament.
At that point, the Pool C was a mystery, a total mystery.
Now, it involves some guesswork, but this board allows great discussions.
As Ralph noted, some who are posting really research and offer great information.
Whether anyone likes it or not, the best 8 teams don't end up in Omaha every June, but 8 very good teams do.
It is a bit less precise in D3 and the West Region presents some challenges for sure.
Most years, the challenge is there are too many teams in the West Region.
This year, perhaps that is not the case.
Last year UTT had a season opening tournament with TU, UTD. In my view, with their facility and the quality of the players they are recruiting there is no apparent reason they cannot host an early season tournament with some very top programs.
If schools will go to AZ, why not Tyler, at least some of them.
In my view, D3 is evolving but in ways different than the past.
This board and many posters are providing timely RPI and in region information which never existed in such public ways before this board evolved.
It "ain't" perfect, but the discussions are sure fun!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 04, 2012, 02:46:06 AM
I wish the NCAA really continues to stay with the regionally approach and continue to make more changes to make it better

My thoughts Keep it simple
1) 30 games min. for each team must be in region
2) All regionals should pick only teams from their region for the regional.
    Example West gets 6 teams
3) Have in Region winning percentage as the primary criteria
4) Throw out SOS, OWP, OOWP
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 04, 2012, 09:54:03 AM
Thanks for the response...

Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 04, 2012, 02:46:06 AM
I wish the NCAA really continues to stay with the regionally approach and continue to make more changes to make it better

My thoughts Keep it simple
1) 30 games min. for each team must be in region  (There is legislation going thru the Competition committee that ~70% of games must be in-region for all sports).

2) All regionals should pick only teams from their region for the regional.   Example West gets 6 teams. (The NCAA currently funds 1 playoff bid for every 6.5 participatns in almost all team sports. This money comes from the current March Madness TV Contract.  The old TV contract allowed the NCAA to pay for 1 bid for every 7.5 participants, so the new TV contract has allowed more at large bids. The New England Region has 67 teams. Does the New England Region get 10 bids for its 10-team Regional?)

3) Have in Region winning percentage as the primary criteria

4) Throw out SOS, OWP, OOWP (How do you objectively determine whether a team has played a tough representative schedule and not just lined up 30 patsies? We would not like relegating this decision to some opinion of 3 guys sitting in a room.)

In a lot of ways, the West Region is just the "red-headed step-child" of the NCAA.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 04, 2012, 10:20:02 AM
The attraction to Arizona is that the teams can see the Spring Training facilities of the major league baseball teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 04, 2012, 11:15:56 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 04, 2012, 10:20:02 AM
The attraction to Arizona is that the teams can see the Spring Training facilities of the major league baseball teams.
It would be great if more teams in the West region played in AZ in early season games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 04, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
It would be nice and would make the WEST region easier to read and compare to the rest of the nation. It could also harm teams that arrive there and get pounded for a week if they struggle.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 04, 2012, 12:32:23 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 04, 2012, 10:20:02 AM
The attraction to Arizona is that the teams can see the Spring Training facilities of the major league baseball teams.

Do you mean play on MLB spring training fields?  This year's set of games that included Linfield, CTX, etc. were played on high school fields way up in Anthem.  They were very nice fields, though.

The Arizona trip was great, however it I think it does pose a definite high risk/reward situation for teams.  It is so early in the season, and unfortunate hiccups can occur as teams are playing their first games of the year, and risking struggling against strong teams, or risking a major faux pas against a team that really is a complete mis-match.  For instance, Claremont McKenna beat Linfield this year in AZ, I believe, and Whitman and CTX, believe it or not, were tied 1-1 going into the 8th in AZ - amazingly, the game was "in the balance" very late.

Pacific chose to pay for travel to Hawaii, and play a bunch of games that had no bearing on their resume.  That was an expensive trip, I'm sure, that in hindsight they may have liked to have re-thought?   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 04, 2012, 01:21:13 PM
A lot of emphasis in this discussion is being placed on February games in Arizona against non-traditional regional opponents as a way to strengthen the schedule and potentially improve your regional ranking.  It is a high risk reward endeavor. Most teams that play in February are nothing like the teams that they are in late April. 

Coaches have an entire season ahead of them, so it is common and prudent, to space out your pitching. Only allow your starters to go for no more than 3 innings and work your entire staff. Those early games are as much about determining who you can look to, when conference play starts, as they are about playing non-traditional opponents. So in many respects these games are in many respects like scrimmage games, with undue weight being applied to the outcomes.

In the West Region, too much rides on these early games. There is no other time to play teams in the non-traditional areas once conference play begins. How teams do later in the season is a much better indicator of how strong a team is IMO.  So playing .500 baseball in February against non-traditional opponents in glorified scrimmage games, should not receive the same weight (on a negative side) as playing .500 ball in your conference in late April, when the games really count and your team is supposedly at full strength. 

So that is why I think things in the West Region need to be looked at differently. I don't have any answers, I have made some suggestions. I don't think there is a perfect answer but I do believe that this region is unique and should be approached differently than the eastern regions which don't face these logistical issues.  One size doesn't fit all, the approach has to be more flexible.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 04, 2012, 02:33:45 PM
Thanks for the comment Texas BB.

We see this frequently in the snowbird teams that get 7 in-region games out of 9 games in Florida on the spring training trip.

Please scan the scoreboards from March among the northern teams that go south.  Each game against a unique in-region opponent impacts the calculation of the OWP/OOWP/SOS.  That is the problem that we have in the West.  The Universe of "in-region" games for each ASC/West Region teams is roughly about 15 foes for most schools.  The New England schools may have 25 unique in-region opponents. If you can schedule about 18-20 of those games with the teams that are .500 or better, you get a very good SOS.  Not picking on Sul Ross, Schreiner and HPU, but the good thing about SRSU is that they gave us the Arizona opponents and the OWP's as we calculated our OOWP's. Otherwise, we would have had much better OWP's if we could have not played those teams.

Chapman will have trouble ever getting as high of an OWP as they did have because now they must play Cal Tech in conference.

McMurry put it all on the line in February with Chapman back in the last decade.  Those teams are at the same time in the development of their staffs.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 04, 2012, 03:21:34 PM
Many teams play only in-region games. I know it's much tougher to do in the West. The committee knows that too.

Look at many of the top teams. Marietta played good Piedmont and Rhodes teams early. St. Thomas played St. Scholastica, La Crosse, Whitewater, Stevens Point, Oshkosh and Chicago. The in-region bullets fly right away for most top teams. It's not an ominous thing. It's the prudent thing to do because the system rewards teams that play high-risk schedules. Almost always have. For proof, look at the Central Region rankings. You won't find many spectacular records toward the bottom of this week's rankings. Sometimes a good loss goes farther than a bad win.

The first game for a St. Thomas is no different than the first game for a Texas team. Every team is feeling out the lineup and rotation; strengths and weaknesses. West Region teams don't have to, and can't realistically, play the same type of schedule that St. Thomas does. But there's a huge difference in the system between playing every team you can and playing every team you should. You can beat some teams eight out of 10 times. You should play several 60-40 and longer-odds games. Get together for one great trip with four or five great nonconference, in-region games per year. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

Some teams like Cortland eased into the pressure games by playing nonregional contests early. If you do that, you better take care of business in-region and play some top in-region teams at least once. Fortunately for Cortland, they do that quite well. But you don't have much margin for error if you don't play a high volume of top teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 04, 2012, 03:56:08 PM
Ricky,

It appears to me that you are content with defending the status quo. You appear to be basically saying that there should be no changes, juts live with it. Schedule your early games and travel and don't push back against the current NCAA set up.  I still believe the west is differnent from other regions and the approach should be flexible. I also maintain that early travel games should not be applied the same weight, they are glorified scrimiage games whether they are played in Florida or Arizona. Why accept the status quo, lets at least consider that there may be a flaw and there might be a better way. Explore the alternatives as opposed to be willing to accept and defend the current set up as if it is cast in stone.

Texas BB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 04, 2012, 04:03:04 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 04, 2012, 03:56:08 PM
Ricky,

It appears to me that you are content with defending the status quo. You appear to be basically saying that there should be no changes, juts live with it. Schedule your early games and travel and don't push back against the current NCAA set up.  I still believe the west is differnent from other regions and the approach should be flexible. I also maintain that early travel games should not be applied the same weight, they are glorified scrimiage games whether they are played in Florida or Arizona. Why accept the status quo, lets at least consider that there may be a flaw and there might be a better way. Explore the alternatives as opposed to be willing to accept and defend the current set up as if it is cast in stone.

Texas BB
One year it may not work out and you want to protest? The system is there to either use to your advantage or disadvantage. A third option is to get frustrated and want to change the rules that have been very, very good to your region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 04, 2012, 04:34:44 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 04, 2012, 04:03:04 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 04, 2012, 03:56:08 PM
Ricky,

It appears to me that you are content with defending the status quo. You appear to be basically saying that there should be no changes, juts live with it. Schedule your early games and travel and don't push back against the current NCAA set up.  I still believe the west is differnent from other regions and the approach should be flexible. I also maintain that early travel games should not be applied the same weight, they are glorified scrimiage games whether they are played in Florida or Arizona. Why accept the status quo, lets at least consider that there may be a flaw and there might be a better way. Explore the alternatives as opposed to be willing to accept and defend the current set up as if it is cast in stone.

Texas BB
One year it may not work out and you want to protest? The system is there to either use to your advantage or disadvantage. A third option is to get frustrated and want to change the rules that have been very, very good to your region.
The rules have been good for the past decade for Chapman as a independent Pool B team able to schedule good teams and leave the poor teams off their schedule to keep a high SOS. Well next year Chapman will play a full Pool A SCIAC conference schedule. They need to step in up in 2013 and win the SCIAC conference or expect a 2nd year of staying home during the regionals.

ASC, SCIAC, NWC all have teams that will keep SOS low for Pool C bids. I am not sure I even agree with the concept of POOL C and SOS. I am for winning it on the field. Pool A does that. I am not sure Pool B/C do that.

I personally view Pool A, B, C bids should stay in the region. It is so hard to try to compare across regions that is why I just dont think it works well all the time. I see teams with 30 wins stay home and teams with 21 wins in the playoffs.

SOS, OWP, OOWP, RPI all remind me too much of the BCS in football.

I am for change not that my opinion matters at all.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 04, 2012, 04:42:37 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 04, 2012, 04:34:44 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 04, 2012, 04:03:04 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 04, 2012, 03:56:08 PM
Ricky,

It appears to me that you are content with defending the status quo. You appear to be basically saying that there should be no changes, juts live with it. Schedule your early games and travel and don't push back against the current NCAA set up.  I still believe the west is differnent from other regions and the approach should be flexible. I also maintain that early travel games should not be applied the same weight, they are glorified scrimiage games whether they are played in Florida or Arizona. Why accept the status quo, lets at least consider that there may be a flaw and there might be a better way. Explore the alternatives as opposed to be willing to accept and defend the current set up as if it is cast in stone.

Texas BB
One year it may not work out and you want to protest? The system is there to either use to your advantage or disadvantage. A third option is to get frustrated and want to change the rules that have been very, very good to your region.
...
I personally view Pool A, B, C bids should stay in the region. It is so hard to try to compare across regions that is why I just dont think it works well all the time. I see teams with 30 wins stay home and teams with 21 wins in the playoffs.

SOS, OWP, OOWP, RPI all remind me too much of the BCS in football.

I am for change not that my opinion matters at all.
Teams with 21 wins in the tournament definitely won it on the field!  They won the conference automatic qualifier (probably the post-season tournament as low-seed that fought against the odds).

And yes, you are right. Pool C bids are for "do-overs".
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 04, 2012, 04:43:24 PM
One last post on the subject and I'll let everyone else have the last words.

The West, Central and Midwest regions have a similar number of teams. The criteria have lent those regions roughly the same representation at regionals over the years. Last season the Midwest and West got two at-large bids apiece. The Central got one two bids (barely). This season the West and Central might get one apiece while the Midwest maybe gets two.

I don't read calls to fix the system on the Central boards when the region gets one bid, and the Central has more than the West's 3.5 conferences. It may be infrequent, but these types of years happen. And if Chapman and/or Linfield were their typical selves this season, the West could be close a lock for six teams and all's right with the world. Now that's not so certain.

My point is, maybe the system works fine – like it does in the similarly sized regions. Perhaps a region can have a down season relatively.

And no, I don't agree that early season games should be treated any differently. Every team has a first weekend. Every team plays its first 10 games. Some teams play their first games with a 60-degree difference in temperature from their regular routine and a timezone change. Those games count too. No excuses. If you schedule a game, be prepared to win that game.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 04, 2012, 04:58:37 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 04, 2012, 04:43:24 PM
One last post on the subject and I'll let everyone else have the last words.

The West, Central and Midwest regions have a similar number of teams. The criteria have lent those regions roughly the same representation at regionals over the years. Last season the Midwest and West got two at-large bids apiece. The Central got one bid (barely). This season the West and Central might get one apiece while the Midwest maybe gets two.

I don't read calls to fix the system on the Central boards when the region gets one bid, and the Central has more than the West's 3.5 conferences. It may be infrequent, but these types of years happen. And if Chapman and/or Linfield were their typical selves this season, the West could be close a lock for six teams and all's right with the world. Now that's not so certain.

My point is, maybe the system works fine – like it does in the similarly sized regions. Perhaps a region can have a down season relatively.

And no, I don't agree that early season games should be treated any differently. Every team has a first weekend. Every team plays its first 10 games. Some teams play their first games with a 60-degree difference in temperature from their regular routine and a timezone change. Those games count too. No excuses. If you schedule a game, be prepared to win that game.
Good post. Valid points !
Thanks for the hard work and great information you have provided to us passionate D3 baseball fans.

I am still going strong 6 years now even though I have had no real connection to any team for the past 2 years
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 04, 2012, 05:28:18 PM
I corrected an error in my post above (the Central got two bids in 2011). To break my promise on that post being my last on the subject this season and to put a finer point on it, here are the bid breakdowns from last season. Some conferences besides the SCAC and NEAC overlap regions slightly.

Central has 4 Pool A leagues, 37 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
Mid-Atlantic has 7.66 Pool A leagues, 60 teams: 3 at-large bids in 2011.
Mideast has 5 Pool A leagues, 48 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
Midwest has 4 Pool A leagues, 39 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
New England has 7.66 Pool A leagues, 67 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
New York has 4.66 Pool A leagues, 37 teams: 1 at-large bid in 2011.
South has 3.5 Pool A leagues, 37 teams: 3 at-large bids in 2011.
West has 3.5 Pool A leagues, 38 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 04, 2012, 08:22:37 PM
Ricky,

Thanks for all of you well researched information, you know what you are talking about.

Looking just at the numbers everything you have said is logical. However, distance is the wild card. The West Region is larger area wise than almost all of the other regions combined! That is the problem in a nutshel. Trying to schedule any games with teams from outside of your area is a logistical problem. Although two of the conferenes have a large number of teams in Texas they are spread out even in this state. Furthermore both confernces cover multiple states. As I said in earlier post it is an 8 hour bus ride from Tyler to San Antonio. So once conference play starts travel is limited. These are student athletes and they cannot miss classes. So you play your mid week games, as much as possible against teams that are within a reasonable bus ride away so that they can avoid missing 2 days of classes. Even then, in many cases, it envolves staying overnight. So a team like UTT schedules its mid-week games with opponents that are "relatively" close, irrespective of their win loss records. You get what you can. So that leaves the pre-season trip of 3 to 4 games only to where you can schedule something. A lot of the so called ASC non-conference schedule in the pre-season, are with teams in the West Division of the ASC. Those are scheduled a year in advance on a rotating basis. All of the conference teams participate. So this year they played a lot of the teams in the West that they didn't play the year before and it will flip this coming year. They also played UD an independent and teams from the SCAC like Austin and Hendrix which are relatively close (2-4 hours away). All the ASC teams are in the same boat and they all have low SOS because there are some weaker teams in the conference. The teams in the NW are in the same boat as they are also isolated. As I said in an earlier post, this region is so spread out is it unique. It would almost make more sense to combine the Northwest with the Midwest and Texas with the Southeast but that would leave California by itself. If they are going to continue to have a West that is so spread out they should be flexible and not apply the same tests that are applied to other regions that don't face this dilemma.

Texas BB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on May 04, 2012, 09:23:04 PM
SOS, OWP, OOWP don't work in the west!

What will transpire the next two weeks will be a qualitative and quantitative discussion about Pool C; primarily based upon SOS, OWP, OOWP. In that it is truely flawed for about half the nation, it gives you results which be by definition are biased.

My hope would be that people would understand the inherent bias that exsists as the "who is better than who" discussion of Pool C unfolds over the next 2-weeks.

As Crash so wisely said "I am for winning it on the field. Pool A does that. I am not sure Pool B/C do that." That being said, I really want a national championship that eliminates the inherent bias that is created by geography and limited budgets.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 04, 2012, 09:30:26 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on May 04, 2012, 09:23:04 PM
SOS, OWP, OOWP don't work in the west!

What will traspire the next two weeks will be a qualitative and quantitative discussion about Pool C; primarily based upon SOS, OWP, OOWP. In that it is truely flawed for about half the nation, it gives you results which be by definition biased.

My hope would be that people would understand the inherent bias that exsits as the "who is better than who" discussion of Pool C unfolds over the next 2-weeks.

As Crash so wisely said "I am for winning it on the field. Pool A does that. I am not sure Pool B/C do that." That being said, I really want a national championship that eliminates the inherent bias that is created by geography and limited budgets.
I think that the people who sit around the table know that SOS/OWP/OOWP varies with the regions in D-III.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 04, 2012, 10:14:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 04, 2012, 09:30:26 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on May 04, 2012, 09:23:04 PM
SOS, OWP, OOWP don't work in the west!

What will traspire the next two weeks will be a qualitative and quantitative discussion about Pool C; primarily based upon SOS, OWP, OOWP. In that it is truely flawed for about half the nation, it gives you results which be by definition biased.

My hope would be that people would understand the inherent bias that exsits as the "who is better than who" discussion of Pool C unfolds over the next 2-weeks.

As Crash so wisely said "I am for winning it on the field. Pool A does that. I am not sure Pool B/C do that." That being said, I really want a national championship that eliminates the inherent bias that is created by geography and limited budgets.
I think that the people who sit around the table know that SOS/OWP/OOWP varies with the regions in D-III.
Confirmed in my talk with Anthony Holman.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 05, 2012, 01:14:10 AM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 04, 2012, 10:14:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 04, 2012, 09:30:26 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on May 04, 2012, 09:23:04 PM
SOS, OWP, OOWP don't work in the west!

What will traspire the next two weeks will be a qualitative and quantitative discussion about Pool C; primarily based upon SOS, OWP, OOWP. In that it is truely flawed for about half the nation, it gives you results which be by definition biased.

My hope would be that people would understand the inherent bias that exsits as the "who is better than who" discussion of Pool C unfolds over the next 2-weeks.

As Crash so wisely said "I am for winning it on the field. Pool A does that. I am not sure Pool B/C do that." That being said, I really want a national championship that eliminates the inherent bias that is created by geography and limited budgets.
I think that the people who sit around the table know that SOS/OWP/OOWP varies with the regions in D-III.
Confirmed in my talk with Anthony Holman.

Ricky -
I recall your article / interview with Anthony Holman (and it was excellent by the way!).  However, can you clarify what was "confirmed in my talk with Anthony Holman"?  Are you suggesting that the committee considers other factors in their selection (other than the criteria? 

Thank you for your feedback and analysis!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 05, 2012, 05:42:33 AM
No, the committee doesn't consider other factors not stated in the selection criteria because, by rule, it cannot. Here is what I meant. Nothing more and nothing less than what he said.

Are lower West Region strength of schedule numbers taken into consideration on selection day?

AH: They are. Everything is taken into consideration. We have a lot of discussion about the West Region and their sometimes lower strength of schedule because of the number of teams that they have to play in conference. They have to play each of their conference opponents three or four times, and you've got a couple of teams that aren't very good that you certainly have to schedule. The travel limitations limit them from getting to as many other Division III institutions as they can, so certainly that may help or hurt their strength of schedule as well. So, the committee does take that into consideration along with everything. Not one criterion is weighed heavier or more than the other, so yes, that's being considered.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 05, 2012, 12:07:56 PM
Ricky -
Can you please clarify one other item from your interview with Anthony Holman . . .

In the interview excerpt below, Anthony discusses the "regionally rankings" as if they are out early in the season.  More specifically, he states that ". . . the first week that we do rankings, some teams may not even have played a game or been outside or maybe they played a couple of games down in Florida or in Arizona, but the Wisconsin schools haven't hit a ball outside yet.". 

What are the regional rankings he is referring to that come out before some teams have even played a game?  Does that mean the regional rankings include the D3Baseball/NCBWA National Poll? 

INTERVIEW:
D3: Backtracking a little bit, why "once ranked, always ranked" as we call it? [Teams are considered ranked, for the purpose of record vs. ranked opponents, if they appear at least once in the regional rankings]

AH: Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's been more of a divisional thing. It was one that came from the championships committee. And I think the baseball committee initially thought that, along with several other sport committees – I think it's fair to say that the baseball committee is reviewing that and is considering that because they recognize that the first week that we do rankings, some teams may not even have played a game or been outside or maybe they played a couple of games down in Florida or in Arizona, but the Wisconsin schools haven't hit a ball outside yet. So, how fair is that? So, I think there's some discussion about that and whether or not we will continue it. It's still part of our criteria for the 2012 season, but it's fair to say that it's under review.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 05, 2012, 05:56:48 PM
I don't have an answer for that. However, it would be nice if the governance structure had a dialog about the merits of "once ranked, always ranked."
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2012, 11:26:15 PM
I think he misspoke.

The first rankings now come out about the 13th week of the season. Every team now has played about 25-28 games when the first regional rankings occur.

I like once ranked, always ranked with the initial rankings occurring so late. You still have a chance to recognize those teams who were strong until the last weeks of the srason. This considers injuries like Trinity TX's #2 pitcher Nick Lucero.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2012, 11:58:33 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2012, 11:26:15 PM
I think he misspoke.

The first rankings now come out about the 13th week of the season. Every team now has played about 25-28 games when the first regional rankings occur.

I like once ranked, always ranked with the initial rankings occurring so late. You still have a chance to recognize those teams who were strong until the last weeks of the srason. This considers injuries like Trinity TX's #2 pitcher Nick Ryan Lucero. :)

BTW congrats to McM, should be fun game tomorrow vs CTX.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2012, 01:25:57 AM
Thx. My bad. Ryan not Nick altho' Ryan doesn't sound "Lucero enough".  LOL
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2012, 01:33:27 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2012, 11:58:33 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2012, 11:26:15 PM
I think he misspoke.

The first rankings now come out about the 13th week of the season. Every team now has played about 25-28 games when the first regional rankings occur.

I like once ranked, always ranked with the initial rankings occurring so late. You still have a chance to recognize those teams who were strong until the last weeks of the srason. This considers injuries like Trinity TX's #2 pitcher Nick Ryan Lucero. :)

BTW congrats to McM, should be fun game tomorrow vs CTX.
I don't know who will pitch for us.
We have used the best 3 starters, the closer in game2, the early season closer for 4(maybe best 4 innings of the season) in game 3.
Coach Byington has gotten a lot out of his team these last 6 games.
Eliminate UTD, UTT and MissColl!!!
Wow.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2012, 01:45:25 AM
We even used a set-up man in Game 2.
WE ARE DEEP into the bullpen now!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: JohnnyU on May 06, 2012, 06:13:35 PM
I think there are ways to "beat the system" that seem unfair to me.

Coaches can load up their non-conference schedules with the best teams in bad conferences, like Keystone or  St. Scholastica or Castleton State or Webster or Alvernia. (The West doesn't have a conference like this. Another reason their SOS numbers are skewed.) These teams are probably good, but not as good as their record says they are. Even if you lose the game, everyone knows those teams are going to have a huge win% to boost your SOS. It's worth it to take the loss.

You could also just play more non-region games instead of playing bad teams in-region. With a high enough SOS you only need to have a "good" season to make the playoffs. Not a great one. Look at the Central Regional rankings. IMO the only difference between North Park and Wheaton is that North Park played more in region early season games. Take away the first 10 in-region games from North Park and they're 19-10, likely with a SOS very similar to Wheaton. Does it really make sense to reward the 14-12 team for traveling further to play teams instead of the 28-11 team?


Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 04, 2012, 05:28:18 PM
I corrected an error in my post above (the Central got two bids in 2011). To break my promise on that post being my last on the subject this season and to put a finer point on it, here are the bid breakdowns from last season. Some conferences besides the SCAC and NEAC overlap regions slightly.

Central has 4 Pool A leagues, 37 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
Mid-Atlantic has 7.66 Pool A leagues, 60 teams: 3 at-large bids in 2011.
Mideast has 5 Pool A leagues, 48 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
Midwest has 4 Pool A leagues, 39 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
New England has 7.66 Pool A leagues, 67 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
New York has 4.66 Pool A leagues, 37 teams: 1 at-large bid in 2011.
South has 3.5 Pool A leagues, 37 teams: 3 at-large bids in 2011.
West has 3.5 Pool A leagues, 38 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2012, 06:23:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2012, 01:45:25 AM
We even used a set-up man in Game 2.
WE ARE DEEP into the bullpen now!
Our #4 starter only allowed 2 runs thru the first 6 innings, to hold a 2-2 tie.  He had a great outing!

He got hit in the 7th and the closer should not shut CTX down which put up a 4-spot in the 7th.

Final was 7-2. CTX
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on May 06, 2012, 07:26:58 PM
Concordia is every bit as advertised at 33-9 and disagree with the West being somewhat weak. Depth on the mound is why they have successfully captured back to back conference titles. They now need to take care of business in Oregon and make a run in this regional. I though McMurry did a hell of a job coming in having a sub 500 record and knocking off two quality teams in UT Tyler and Miss College.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2012, 07:30:17 PM
Bamcolt.

Congratulations.

Now win the West.


Considering we started the season 2-13 ( the month of February) ...

We go 21-11 in March, April and May.
We knocked out three.  We eliminated UTD, UTT and MissColl from the tournament.   ;)

I hope that CTX puts in a bid to host the West in 2013 and 2014.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 06, 2012, 09:28:52 PM
Congratulations to McMurry the played tough and won some real tight games.

Congratulations also to CTX showing they are the class of the ASC.

Good luck in the Regionals. I think they have a real good chance to to win it!!

Texas BB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 06, 2012, 09:36:52 PM
Quote from: BamColt on May 06, 2012, 07:26:58 PM
Concordia is every bit as advertised at 33-9 and disagree with the West being somewhat weak. Depth on the mound is why they have successfully captured back to back conference titles. They now need to take care of business in Oregon and make a run in this regional. I though McMurry did a hell of a job coming in having a sub 500 record and knocking off two quality teams in UT Tyler and Miss College.
I did not say that the west did not have great teams this year, I stated that the region as a whole is in a down year compared to years' past. Struggling to fill a 6 team regional with in-region teams is proof.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 07, 2012, 09:30:17 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 06, 2012, 09:36:52 PM
Quote from: BamColt on May 06, 2012, 07:26:58 PM
Concordia is every bit as advertised at 33-9 and disagree with the West being somewhat weak. Depth on the mound is why they have successfully captured back to back conference titles. They now need to take care of business in Oregon and make a run in this regional. I though McMurry did a hell of a job coming in having a sub 500 record and knocking off two quality teams in UT Tyler and Miss College.
I did not say that the west did not have great teams this year, I stated that the region as a whole is in a down year compared to years' past. Struggling to fill a 6 team regional with in-region teams is proof.

Not only is the Region down, but it appears the ASC was down as well. 2 of the last 3 teams left standing in the tournament finished the year with below .500 records.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 07, 2012, 09:59:39 AM
Quote from: dp643 on May 07, 2012, 09:30:17 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 06, 2012, 09:36:52 PM
Quote from: BamColt on May 06, 2012, 07:26:58 PM
Concordia is every bit as advertised at 33-9 and disagree with the West being somewhat weak. Depth on the mound is why they have successfully captured back to back conference titles. They now need to take care of business in Oregon and make a run in this regional. I though McMurry did a hell of a job coming in having a sub 500 record and knocking off two quality teams in UT Tyler and Miss College.
I did not say that the west did not have great teams this year, I stated that the region as a whole is in a down year compared to years' past. Struggling to fill a 6 team regional with in-region teams is proof.

Not only is the Region down, but it appears the ASC was down as well. 2 of the last 3 teams left standing in the tournament finished the year with below .500 records.
Let's see how CTX does in the tourney.  If they have a strong showing in the West Region and beyond (and don't go two and BBQ), then what we may have seen is parity in a tough league.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 07, 2012, 10:23:42 AM
I dont think Concordia sweeping the west region shows we had a tough league at all. Concordia was the class of the ASC this year, and we saw many firsts this year. I have never seen Tyler with this weak of a pitching staff. I have never seen Hardin Simmons finish at .500. I have never seen 2 of the final 4 teams have sub .500 records, including the conference runner up. I have never seen 4 of the 8 teams in the conference tournament at or below .500. Could there be Parity? Sure, there has always been in the league. I just think this year it wasn't good parity.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 07, 2012, 10:30:52 AM
SCIAC also in my opinion had a down year. Cal Lu, Redlands and the new entry Chapman all had poor years compared to prior years.

Is it changing of the guard, parity or just a single down season.

The future will provide these answers.

But games I saw with SCIAC teams were displays of poor defense, poor base running, and lack of timely hitting and fundamentals.

And this was for several teams in the SCIAC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 07, 2012, 10:33:47 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 07, 2012, 10:30:52 AM
SCIAC also in my opinion had a down year. Cal Lu, Redlands and the new entry Chapman all had poor years compared to prior years.

Is it changing of the guard, parity or just a single down season.

The future will provide these answers.

But games I saw with SCIAC teams were displays of poor defense, poor base running, and lack of timely hitting and fundamentals.

And this was for several teams in the SCIAC.

This is what I have been noticing as well. Good post.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 07, 2012, 12:20:40 PM
With the West being down this year (NW also appears to have similar issues), it will make the regional tournament very interesting. A team like CTX, which does have very good pitching depth, may be able to win it. In the past the ASC has benn primarily a conference that relied on 2 top starters and a good closer. However, once you got beyond those, the staffs have had weakness. That was all that is needed to win a divisions or a 4 team tournament. But winning in a 6 team tournament you need a deeper staff. CTX appears to have such a staff this year, so I like their chances.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 07, 2012, 01:19:51 PM
Small ball really seemed to be the order of the day in the ASC tourney.

Lots of well-constructed innings in which a BB, a SAC bunt and a timely single produced another run.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 07, 2012, 01:56:21 PM
In 2012 I noticed the teams that play good defense, pitch well and play small ball win.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2012, 02:00:34 PM
I agree Ralph....or maybe a "not so well constructed inning :o" where a bunt or hit-n-run creates an error and a un earned run scores. The team that wins in the regional will have to pitch and play defense to move on. There may be a blowout game, but more than likely there will be a bunch of 1 run games that are decided by getting the ball in play and making the other team make a mistake.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 07, 2012, 02:30:26 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2012, 02:00:34 PM
I agree Ralph....or maybe a "not so well constructed inning :o" where a bunt or hit-n-run creates an error and a un earned run scores. The team that wins in the regional will have to pitch and play defense to move on. There may be a blowout game, but more than likely there will be a bunch of 1 run games that are decided by getting the ball in play and making the other team make a mistake.
I think that all of us saw too many of those.  That is very painful to remember.

For me the exciting thing about the new BBCOR bats is the high schoolers are getting to see their deficiencies in their formative stages of the game.  It used to be about "jackin' one out of the yard".

Now it is about the beautiful game. It becomes pitching, speed and defense.  I think that it makes every player work harder on every aspect of the game. They just cannot mentally wipe off the minor things like failing to back up a base or a fielder, or missing the cut-off man. They cannot think to themselves, "Oh well, I will just knock one out of the park in the next inning."

Do you other posters think that players' expectations at an "at-bat" now have changed from hitting a long one to making good contact with the ball? To going the other way with the outside pitch and getting the single?

Have the umpires opened/enlarged the strike zone a bit because of the BBCOR?

I will also share this on the National BBCOR board.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on May 07, 2012, 04:03:31 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 07, 2012, 01:56:21 PM
In 2012 I noticed the teams that play good defense, pitch well and play small ball win.

From what I was able to follow in the NWC this was the case in our conference. We'll see how deep Whitworth's pitching is soon, but I believe they had the highest fielding % and led the conference in hits and rbi without hitting a ton of HR's (outside of Pfeffer who led the conference). They aren't going to "wow" you, but getting guys on base and playing error free baseball worked well for the Pirates this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 07, 2012, 05:40:50 PM
Whitworth was 3rd in NWC in HR, but yes, Pfeffer hit 11 of their 22 dingers.  They led the NWC in BA, RBI and had the lowest number of batters strike out by a large margin.  Their team ERA was middle of the conference.  Team defense was .966, right among conference leaders.

I think they'll be a tough match-up, and hope they do well.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 07, 2012, 05:58:16 PM
I took a look at the ASC stats. CTX led the league with a 2.61 team ERA and was second in Fielding Percentage at .967. They had a team batting average of .292. UTT lead the league in BA with .335 and fielding percentage at .971 but had a team ERA of 4.23. The ERA is what really stood out for CTX.  They are not likely going to get blown out and if a game goes into the late or extra innings,  that is where they shine. 

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2012, 06:24:22 PM
I saw them very early in the season, but that was my impression of them, solid pitching, pretty good defense and so so offense. Their pitching should keep them in most games and the rest is up to the baseball gods.

Once all of the West teams get named I will pull up the NCAA data on them and do a comparison for fun.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 07, 2012, 06:35:32 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2012, 06:24:22 PM
I saw them very early in the season, but that was my impression of them, solid pitching, pretty good defense and so so offense. Their pitching should keep them in most games and the rest is up to the baseball gods.

Once all of the West teams get named I will pull up the NCAA data on them and do a comparison for fun.

One of the reasons Chapman is not one of the top teams in 2012 is defense. 10 losses by 1 run, 4 losses by 2 runs

27 passed balls, 82 errors, 47 unearned runs
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 07, 2012, 06:55:18 PM
Not sure if this is related to the entire region but the SCIAC has gone from 1-2 dominating teams to a bunch of pretty-good teams.  I don't think La Verne will last too long in the regional as their pitching was very suspect.  I do not think they were the best team in the SCIAC (I know it sounds stupid since they won it) and I wish Pomona got the chance in the regional.  The biggest change in the SCIAC is the bats.  Many of the SCIAC fields are launching pads (especially Pomona and Oxy) and the new bats have taken away the mentality that teams could rely on the long ball.  The league leader in HR's was Campbell from Pomona with 11 and Aldape from Oxy with 8.  In past SCIAC seasons the HR totals were much higher and the pitching numbers were very average.  With high school kids using the new bats the real (or lack of) tallent shows and those are the kids that are playing in college now.  The day of the meat-head who brings nothing to the team other that power are over.  The SCIAC recruits against each other all the time and they are all looking for the same type of kid- fast as hell and a good contact hitter.  Pitchers can throw inside again and the conference itself has ballanced out a bunch.

Obviously every team is using the new bats and are going through the same adjustments but the SCIAC was always a power-bat conference.  Getting a pitcher like Schwenn from Whittier or Rauh from Chapman (although he dominated with the old bats too) are very valuable as one mistake pitch is a lot less likely to get hit out of the park than it was before.

Boggs at Concordia has built that entire team around pitching and defense and I trully believe they are going to win the West regional.  I do think playing on the turf in Oregon will be an advantage for them too as they play on it all the time where most schools never touch it during the year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2012, 10:14:43 PM
That is a great point about Concordia regarding their field.

Admittedly I have not seen CTX since the beginning of the season, but I think Trinity is a better overall team. Loosing Lucero takes from the favorite, but they have enough arms to get through a Regional IMO. Untimely errors (and as always, luck) will be the deciding factor IMO.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 07, 2012, 10:52:30 PM
Trinity 3, CTX 2 Box score (http://www.d3baseball.com/seasons/2012/boxscores/20120211_1b8b.xml) on 02/11/2012.

Lucero versus Grygar.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 07, 2012, 11:13:11 PM
EttaFan posted a list of possible Pool C teams on another thread.  The list is below. 
Also listed below is a ranking of the top 10 teams in the West, ranked by RPI. 

The West Region only has 3 teams that are AQ, leaving 3 open Pool C positions.  However, if you review the list of possible Pool C teams, over 20 teams on that list have a higher RPI than the West's best Pool C possibility, Trinity at .571.  In Ricky Nelson's interview with Anthony Holman (Asst. Director of Championships), he stated that the committee takes into consideration the lower SOS numbers from the West, given factors such as fewer teams, travel limitations, etc.

The question is the following:  Given that consideration from the NCAA, will they fill all the West Region Pool C spots with teams from the West?  Or will they send in teams from other regions? 

Possible Pool C Teams - from EttaFan (see thread "Pool C Predictions" for criteria)
Rank   Team   Regional Win%     SOS    RPI   Region  Conference   Pool

1   Montclair State   .808   .583   .639   MA   NJAC   C
2   Rowan   .697   .571   .603   MA   NJAC   C
3   Eastern Connecticut   .679   .575   .601   NE   LEC   C
4   St. John Fisher   .750   .545   .596   NY   E8   C
5   Ramapo   .692   .564   .596   MA   NJAC   C
6   Chicago   .633   .582   .595   C   UAA   C
7   Southern Maine   .618   .587   .595   NE   LEC   C
8   Alvernia   .731   .549   .595   MA   MACC   C
9   Amherst   .769   .536   .594   NE   NESCAC   C
10   Neumann   .667   .570   .594   MA   CSAC   C
11   Shenandoah   .743   .542   .592   S   USAC   C
12   Bowdoin   .600   .580   .585   NE   NESCAC   C
13   Concordia (Ill.)   .737   .531   .583   MW   NATHC   C
14   Emory   .703   .538   .579   S   UAA   C
15   UW-Whitewater   .629   .559   .577   MW   WIAC   C
16   William Paterson   .667   .546   .576   MA   NJAC   C
17   Johns Hopkins   .625   .557   .574   MA   CC   C
18   Huntingdon   .667   .542   .573   S   GSAC   C
19   Millsaps   .639   .550   .572   S   SCAC   C
20   Bates   .593   .565   .572   NE   NESCAC   C
21   St. John's   .742   .515   .572   MW   MIAC   C
22   Washington College   .684   .533   .571   MA   CC   C
23   Trinity (Texas)   .795   .496   .571   W   SCAC   C
24   North Park   .727   .518   .570   C   CCIW   C
25   DePauw   .732   .515   .569   ME   NCAC   C


Now here is a list of the top 10 teams in the West, ranked by RPI . . .

RPI Ratings - West Region         
Rank  Team    Regional Win %     SOS    RPI

1  Concordia (TX)   0.795             0.500   0.574
2  Trinity              0.795             0.496   0.571
3  La Verne           0.667             0.532   0.566
4  Whitworth           0.773             0.494   0.564
5  Pacific              0.769             0.494   0.563
6  Chapman           0.545             0.560   0.556
7  Pacific Lutheran   0.647             0.523   0.554
8  Pomona Pitzer     0.676             0.510   0.552
9  Texas-Tyler          0.694             0.502   0.550
10  George Fox          0.606             0.528   0.548
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 08, 2012, 09:13:27 AM
I think they will fly in one and maybe two teams from other regions.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 08, 2012, 09:54:38 AM
I would hope that they stay within the region due to its diversity and travel issues. The SOS is impacted negatively by the inability of teams to travel far for "fill in games" (during the week) once conference play starts. So the teams schedule who they can that are relatively close. (see me earlier posts on this). With 35 teams available (total of 38 teams in the West Region) to fill 3 pool c spots they can find worthy teams within the region. I think Trinity is in so that leaves only 2 spots to fill out of the remainig 34 teams.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 08, 2012, 09:56:40 AM
Trinity is a lock and I would hate to be Pac Lu or Pacific. My guess is that Pacific* gets the other spot and that one other team is flown in.


* based on zero experience in this, but given that Pacific beat PacLu 2 of 3 they get the nod....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 08, 2012, 10:16:50 AM
The Pacific/Pac Lu series was taken into account in last week's regional rankings, in which Pacific did not make the top 6.  Since then, Pacific has not played and Pac Lu dropped two in-region games (and one more against an NAIA opponent).  It seems unlikely that Pacific will leapfrog Pomona-Pitzer, but somewhat likely that Pac Lu will drop out (or at least below the two SCIAC teams behind them).  I would not be surprised to see Pacific enter at 6 this week.  If the west only gets one more pool C (beyond Trinity), does anybody have a feel for the relative merits of Pacific vs Pomona-Pitzer?  At least from the regional committees standpoint, they seem to like PP. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 08, 2012, 11:01:32 AM
Regional Ranking Predictions for this week  ???
1  Concordia (TX)   
2  Trinity(TX)               
3  La Verne           
4  Whitworth         
5  Pacific      ;D       
6  Pomona Pitzer     

BUT 5 and 6 could be reversed.  :o
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 08, 2012, 11:15:12 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 08, 2012, 11:01:32 AM
Regional Ranking Predictions for this week  ???
1  Concordia (TX)   
2  Trinity(TX)               
3  La Verne           
4  Whitworth         
5  Pacific      ;D       
6  Pomona Pitzer     

BUT 5 and 6 could be reversed.  :o
Curious as to why you think the orders would be switching when only Concordia (which I agree might move to 1) has played since the last regional rankings.  Pacific had 2-1 wins over George Fox, Linfield and Pac Lu during the season, but those teams on average went .500 over the weekend (as they only played each other), so that shouldn't help too much, if at all. Is it common for the regional committee to flip flop teams even when no new information is available?   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 08, 2012, 11:42:02 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 08, 2012, 11:15:12 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 08, 2012, 11:01:32 AM
Regional Ranking Predictions for this week  ???
1  Concordia (TX)   
2  Trinity(TX)               
3  La Verne           
4  Whitworth         
5  Pacific      ;D       
6  Pomona Pitzer     

BUT 5 and 6 could be reversed.  :o
Curious as to why you think the orders would be switching when only Concordia (which I agree might move to 1) has played since the last regional rankings.  Pacific had 2-1 wins over George Fox, Linfield and Pac Lu during the season, but those teams on average went .500 over the weekend (as they only played each other), so that shouldn't help too much, if at all. Is it common for the regional committee to flip flop teams even when no new information is available?   
Pacific was not ranked last week in regionally ranking. I am not sure if they will be #5 or 6 in my predictions. Of course I could be wrong and Pacific goes unranked like last week but that would wrong in my opinion.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 08, 2012, 11:50:32 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 08, 2012, 11:15:12 AM
Curious as to why you think the orders would be switching when only Concordia (which I agree might move to 1) has played since the last regional rankings.  Pacific had 2-1 wins over George Fox, Linfield and Pac Lu during the season, but those teams on average went .500 over the weekend (as they only played each other), so that shouldn't help too much, if at all. Is it common for the regional committee to flip flop teams even when no new information is available?   

Richard I am not sure if any of the games from last weekend made it into the regtional rankings. I am with Crash as I think Pacific should be ranked, and possibly above PacLu.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 08, 2012, 11:53:00 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 08, 2012, 11:15:12 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 08, 2012, 11:01:32 AM
Regional Ranking Predictions for this week  ???
1  Concordia (TX)   
2  Trinity(TX)               
3  La Verne           
4  Whitworth         
5  Pacific      ;D       
6  Pomona Pitzer     

BUT 5 and 6 could be reversed.  :o
Curious as to why you think the orders would be switching when only Concordia (which I agree might move to 1) has played since the last regional rankings.  Pacific had 2-1 wins over George Fox, Linfield and Pac Lu during the season, but those teams on average went .500 over the weekend (as they only played each other), so that shouldn't help too much, if at all. Is it common for the regional committee to flip flop teams even when no new information is available?   

A lot of time the numbers can change based on other opponents results that they have played at another time of the season... or by a previous opponent (not orginally ranked) showing up in the rankings and bumping their record vs ranked opponents up or down as a result. There are a ton of factors involved.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 08, 2012, 12:03:17 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 08, 2012, 11:50:32 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 08, 2012, 11:15:12 AM
Curious as to why you think the orders would be switching when only Concordia (which I agree might move to 1) has played since the last regional rankings.  Pacific had 2-1 wins over George Fox, Linfield and Pac Lu during the season, but those teams on average went .500 over the weekend (as they only played each other), so that shouldn't help too much, if at all. Is it common for the regional committee to flip flop teams even when no new information is available?   

Richard I am not sure if any of the games from last weekend made it into the regtional rankings. I am with Crash as I think Pacific should be ranked, and possibly above PacLu.
The regional rankings came out on Thursday, so they definitely didn't involve the weekends games.  I'm expecting changes as well, and think Pacific should be in there over Pac Lu (especially after this weekend). We'll see on Thursday, but I was interested in knowing why Crash is predicting La Verne to jump Whitworth and Pacific to jump Pomona.  Pacific entering into the rankings would seemingly help Whitworth as that would be an extra 2-1 against a regionally ranked opponent for them.  Wondering if there was something I'm missing.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on May 08, 2012, 12:28:39 PM
The field should play in Concordia's favor but I don't think it will be a huge advantage in my opinion. I agree with the above poster, I love the way Boggs coaches this team to play very sound defense and has the arms from his starters and in the pen to rely on. I think this team got their feet wet last year and have a little more experience this go round for regionals. Would love to see Concordia get back to Appleton and represent the ASC again.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 08, 2012, 03:46:25 PM
CTX is my pick. Good Defense, Good pitching will win the regional in 2012. Getting on base, playing small ball with timeley hitting will get the job done.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on May 09, 2012, 04:13:20 PM
I would not be surprised, after this weekend, to see Linfield jump back into the West rankings. They are getting hot at the right time (including shut outs of PLU and G-Fox), and I would not want to play them if they make the playoffs.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 09, 2012, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on May 09, 2012, 04:13:20 PM
I would not be surprised, after this weekend, to see Linfield jump back into the West rankings. They are getting hot at the right time (including shut outs of PLU and G-Fox), and I would not want to play them if they make the playoffs.
It would not surprise me if Linfield made it to the West Regional but their numbers are lower than Pomona Pitzer, Pacific Lutheran.

Pacific also has a higher in region winning percentage, but lower OWP, OOWP, SOS, Overall record and winning percentage

Linfield
25-15 .625 Overall Record
22-12 .637 In Region Winning Percentage
.5015 (227) OWP is weak
.5234 OOWP
.509 (208) SOS is also weak
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 09, 2012, 04:40:03 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 09, 2012, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on May 09, 2012, 04:13:20 PM
I would not be surprised, after this weekend, to see Linfield jump back into the West rankings. They are getting hot at the right time (including shut outs of PLU and G-Fox), and I would not want to play them if they make the playoffs.
It would not surprise me if Linfield made it to the West Regional but their numbers are lower than Pomona Pitzer, Pacific Lutheran.

Pacific also has a higher in region winning percentage, but lower OWP, OOWP, SOS, Overall record and winning percentage

Linfield
25-15 .625 Overall Record
22-12 .637 In Region Winning Percentage
.5015 (227) OWP is weak
.5234 OOWP
.509 (208) SOS is also weak
A .509 SOS in the West is passable.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2012, 05:12:01 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 09, 2012, 04:40:03 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 09, 2012, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on May 09, 2012, 04:13:20 PM
I would not be surprised, after this weekend, to see Linfield jump back into the West rankings. They are getting hot at the right time (including shut outs of PLU and G-Fox), and I would not want to play them if they make the playoffs.
It would not surprise me if Linfield made it to the West Regional but their numbers are lower than Pomona Pitzer, Pacific Lutheran.

Pacific also has a higher in region winning percentage, but lower OWP, OOWP, SOS, Overall record and winning percentage

Linfield
25-15 .625 Overall Record
22-12 .637 In Region Winning Percentage
.5015 (227) OWP is weak
.5234 OOWP
.509 (208) SOS is also weak
A .509 SOS in the West is passable.
I agree with Ricky. A .509 SOS in the West Region is passable.

Linfield did everything that they could to play a quality in-region schedule.

Besides the Northwest Conference schedule, whom they have to play, they went to Arizona for 4 West Region Games and then played at Chapman 4 games during the "Bye week in NWC play.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 09, 2012, 05:28:00 PM
I can see an argument being made for Linfield over Pacific, I don't see the argument over Pomona
Linfield vs Pomona-Pitzer
SOS: .509 vs .510
Overall Record: 25-15 vs 25-12-1
In-Region Record: 22-12 vs 23-11
Against common opponents (Chapman, Cal Lu, CMS, Whitworth, and Puget Sound): 7-5 vs 10-4
Against regionally ranked opponents: 4-3 vs 3-2
All advantages to P-P...
 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2012, 06:03:20 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 09, 2012, 05:28:00 PM
I can see an argument being made for Linfield over Pacific, I don't see the argument over Pomona
Linfield vs Pomona-Pitzer
SOS: .509 vs .510
Overall Record: 25-15 vs 25-12-1
In-Region Record: 22-12 vs 23-11
Against common opponents (Chapman, Cal Lu, CMS, Whitworth, and Puget Sound): 7-5 vs 10-4
Against regionally ranked opponents: 4-3 vs 3-2
All advantages to P-P...

+1! Richard, excellent analysis using the Handbook criteria.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 09, 2012, 09:47:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2012, 06:03:20 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 09, 2012, 05:28:00 PM
I can see an argument being made for Linfield over Pacific, I don't see the argument over Pomona
Linfield vs Pomona-Pitzer
SOS: .509 vs .510
Overall Record: 25-15 vs 25-12-1
In-Region Record: 22-12 vs 23-11
Against common opponents (Chapman, Cal Lu, CMS, Whitworth, and Puget Sound): 7-5 vs 10-4
Against regionally ranked opponents: 4-3 vs 3-2
All advantages to P-P...


+1! Richard, excellent analysis using the Handbook criteria.

Ralph -
Based on the "selection criteria", how is Linfield even being discussed as a possibility for a Pool C bid?  What am I missing? 

(1)  Based on the criteria of "win-loss percentage against regional opponents" . . .  Linfield ranks BEHIND Trinity, Pacific, Pomona, Pac Lu, Texas-Tyler, and Texas Lutheran.
(2)  Based on the criteria of SOS . . . Linfield ranks BEHIND Chapman, George Fox, Hardin-Simmons, Mississippi College, Pac Lu, Occidental, and Pomona.
(3)  If you factored the first two together as an RPI . . . Linfield ranks BEHIND Pacific, Chapman, Pac Lu, Pomona, Texas-Tyler, and George Fox.
(4)  Based on "in-region head-to-head competition" . . . Linfield was 1 -2 versus Pacific, 1 - 3 versus George Fox, 3 - 1 versus Pac Lu, and 2 - 2 versus Chapman.
(5)  Based on the criteria of "in-region results versus regionally ranked teams" . . . Chapman had 5 wins (5-8), Linfield had 4 wins (4-3), Pacific had 3 wins (3-3), Pac Lu had 2 wins (2-2), and Pomona had 2 wins (2-2). 

The discussion should be among Pacific, Pomona, Chapman, Texas-Tyler and Pac Lu. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2012, 10:36:18 PM
El Hombre,

I think that Richard Hamstocks showed how Linfield does not have the credentials for a Pool C bid.

Let's see if Linfield is in the Regional Rankings tomorrow.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2012, 10:55:49 PM
Correction El Hombre:  PP is 3-2 against Regionally Ranked teams  (2-2 vs LaVerne and 1-0 versus Whitworth).

Thanks for the analysis.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 09, 2012, 11:56:04 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2012, 10:36:18 PM
El Hombre,

I think that Richard Hamstocks showed how Linfield does not have the credentials for a Pool C bid.

Let's see if Linfield is in the Regional Rankings tomorrow.
I agree on the Richard's analysis but dont be shocked at the number 6 is in the West Region it may be a team the numbers dont support and could shock many people.

I just think there are other factors being considered.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 12:10:23 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 09, 2012, 11:56:04 PMI just think there are other factors being considered.
This strikes me as a serious problem, as they don't seem to be listed as either primary or secondary criteria from what I can tell.  Any insight on what those factors might be?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 10, 2012, 12:12:10 AM
....factors like who the hosting team is?.......
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 12:21:38 AM
I have no clue really just guessing out loud....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 01:17:56 AM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 10, 2012, 12:12:10 AM
....factors like who the hosting team is?.......
or if the coach is on the regional ranking committee...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 01:52:53 AM
Bro is on the regional committee but not the chair and not on the national committee.  The SCIAC has a rep too. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 01:56:38 AM
Ranking of West Region Teams:
Using the NCAA Selection Criteria


Criteria:  Win-Loss % Against Regional Opponents
1.   Concordia  .800
2.   Trinity  .795
3.   Whitworth  .773
4.   Pacific  .769
5.   Texas-Tyler  .694
6.   Pomona  .676
7.   La Verne  .667
8.   Texas Lutheran  .667
9.   Texas-Dallas  .658
10.   Pac Lu / Linfield (tie)  .647

Criteria:  Strength of Schedule
1.   Chapman  .560  (Nationally #29)
2.   La Verne  .532  (Nationally #103)
3.   Hardin-Simmons .531 (Nationally #104)
4.   (tie 3) George Fox  .531 (Nationally #104)
5.   Mississippi College  (Nationally #126)
6.   Pac Lu  .523  (Nationally #134)
7.   Occidental  .511 (Nationally #192)
8.   Pomona  .510  (Nationally #202)
9.   Linfield  .509  (Nationally #209)
10.   Whittier  .506  (Nationally #220)

RPI (not listed as a criteria, but factors W/L % and SOS)
1.   Concordia  .577
2.   Trinity  .571
3.   La Verne  .566
4.   Whitworth  .564
5.   Pacific  .563
6.   Chapman  .556
7.   Pac Lu  .554
8.   Pomona  .552
9.   Texas-Tyler  .551
10.   George Fox  .545
11.   Linfield .544

Criteria:  Wins Versus Regionally Ranked Teams
1.   George Fox: 5  (overall 5 – 5)
2.   Chapman:  5  (overall 5 – 8)
3.   La Verne:  4  (overall 4 – 4)
4.   Linfield:  4 (overall 4 – 3)
5.   Pacific:  3 (overall 3 – 3)
6.   Pomona:  3  (overall 3 – 2)
7.   Whitworth:  2  (overall 2 – 2)
8.   Pac Lu:  2 (overall 2 – 2)
9.   Trinity:  1 (overall 1 – 0)
10.   Concordia:  1  (overall 1 – 1)
11.   Texas-Tyler:  1  (overall 1 – 3)

Criteria:  Head-to-Head Competition
(records in games between the 7 above potential Pool C teams)
1.   George Fox:  8 – 5
2.   Pac Lu:  5 – 6
3.   Pacific:  4 – 2
4.   Linfield:  4 – 3
5.   Chapman:  3 – 5
6.   Pomona:  2 – 1
7.   Texas-Tyler:  0 - 0
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 02:13:01 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 01:52:53 AM
Bro is on the regional committee but not the chair and not on the national committee.  The SCIAC has a rep too.
I'm sure he was pushing Pacific's case quite hard. 

Quote from: wildcat11 on May 09, 2012, 04:28:50 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on May 07, 2012, 09:54:15 AM
If the cats could have played like that all season we'd be having a different discussion as the regional rolled into town.

Rat...we might be able to have that conversation now...   ;)
I'd be interested in hearing your justification for what you are hinting at might be Linfield's ranking.
Strength of schedule arguments are problematic when you play an identical schedule as 8 other teams and only outperform 4 of them...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 02:18:20 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 01:59:44 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 01:52:53 AM
Bro is on the regional committee but not the chair and not on the national committee.  The SCIAC has a rep too.
I'm sure he was pushing Pacific's case quite hard.  I'd be interested in hearing your justification for Linfield's ranking.
Strength of schedule arguments are problematic when you play an identical schedule as 8 other teams and only outperform 4 of them...

The NCAA states that the committee MUST adhere to the selection criteria in the handbook.  Based on that, and the NCAA selection criteria listed above, the only Pool C teams that can meet the criteria are as follows:  Trinity, Pomona, Pacific, Chapman, or Pac Lu.

I predict the following ranking:

1.  Concordia (AQ)
2.  Trinity (Pool C)
3.  Whitworth (AQ)
4.  La Verne (AQ)
5 - 6.  Pacific / Pomona / Chapman (Pool C's)

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 10, 2012, 02:43:17 AM
You may think it's semantics, but keep in mind that the criterion is results versus regionally ranked teams, not wins necessarily. Of course wins are a very large component of those results, but it's not total wins, winning percentage or anything else alone. It's the artfully complex word "results."
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 09:01:31 AM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2012, 02:43:17 AM
You may think it's semantics, but keep in mind that the criterion is results versus regionally ranked teams, not wins necessarily. Of course wins are a very large component of those results, but it's not total wins, winning percentage or anything else alone. It's the artfully complex word "results."
Nice post. You understand how it works. Not many do.....Several factors are used...

I am betting a few will be shocked when West Regionally Rankings are posted today.

I could be wrong 100% since I have no way of knowing like everyone else but I have seen stranger things in past years in Regionally rankings...It is not just a numbers game in my opinion. If it was their would be no need for committe's just computers like the BCS does for football.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 09:20:07 AM
Keep hitting refresh...Not sure what time these will be posted today...

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 10, 2012, 09:23:02 AM
Even if a team lands at #6 in the West today, I still do not see them being selected ahead of the other Pool Cs that are awarded NATIONALLY, not regionally.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 09:33:14 AM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2012, 02:43:17 AM
You may think it's semantics, but keep in mind that the criterion is results versus regionally ranked teams, not wins necessarily. Of course wins are a very large component of those results, but it's not total wins, winning percentage or anything else alone. It's the artfully complex word "results."

Ricky -
FYI - that was based on the details Anthony Holman gave to you in your interview with him regarding selection criteria.  His response was as follows:
. . . "We're drilling down into the numbers, looking at all of our online score reporting information. If you're a D-I school, the equivalent of the RPI. What we're looking at is their strength of schedule and their won/loss. We're drilling down to who they lost to, where they finished in their last couple of games of the season. What kind of head-to-head matchups have they had? Who did they play or compete against that was ranked? How many ranked opponents did they beat? All of those things would be considered, and we'd be looking at those things for all of the teams that are "on the board."
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 09:41:49 AM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2012, 02:43:17 AM
You may think it's semantics, but keep in mind that the criterion is results versus regionally ranked teams, not wins necessarily. Of course wins are a very large component of those results, but it's not total wins, winning percentage or anything else alone. It's the artfully complex word "results."
An excellent post. 
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 09:01:31 AM
Nice post. You understand how it works. Not many do.....Several factors are used...
Is "understanding how it works" in the sense the one understands only when they understand that they don't understand how it works?  This is the only way that I can convince myself that I understand how it works after reading Ricky's post.  Or does anybody have a better feel for this? 
Things that I think can reasonably go into this: Total wins (advantage Linfield amongst L, P-P, Pac Lu, Pacific and Trinity) and winning percentage (advantage Pomona-Pitzer, I'm not including Trinity at 1-0 in this).  But of course Linfield only have the total wins advantage because of the volatility in the NWC and Pac Lu self-destructing. 
So how do we add context?  When the wins happen?  This seems antithetical to the rest of the criteria, but perhaps this makes Linfield's win over Pac Lu last weekend more impressive than P-P's win over a still regionally ranked Whitworth team to open the season (but doesn't help Pacific in terms of their series win over Pac Lu the week previous?).   
Where the wins happen?  Margin of victory?  I'm open to suggestions.
Hopefully wildcat11's suggestion that Linfield is a serious pool C contender isn't the case, but if so...

 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 09:50:20 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 09:33:14 AM
. . . "We're drilling down into the numbers, looking at all of our online score reporting information. ...where they finished in their last couple of games of the season..."
Linfield 4-6 in last 10 D3 games. 
Pacific 6-4
Chapman 8-2
Pomona-Pitzer 9-1

I know 10 is not a couple, but you get the point.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 10:07:01 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 09:50:20 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 09:33:14 AM
. . . "We're drilling down into the numbers, looking at all of our online score reporting information. ...where they finished in their last couple of games of the season..."
Linfield 4-6 in last 10 D3 games. 
Pacific 6-4
Chapman 8-2
Pomona-Pitzer 9-1

I know 10 is not a couple, but you get the point.

Richard -
Good point! 
This is just another "measure" or criterion the committee claims to look at, and once again it comes down one of three teams:  Pomona, Pacific, or Chapman. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 10:18:32 AM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2012, 02:43:17 AM
You may think it's semantics, but keep in mind that the criterion is results versus regionally ranked teams, not wins necessarily. Of course wins are a very large component of those results, but it's not total wins, winning percentage or anything else alone. It's the artfully complex word "results."

+1!  YES!  Results are important because the team prepared a schedule that the coach tried to anticipate strong opponents.

You must reward a team that will go out and schedule tough opponents!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 10:20:14 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 09:50:20 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 09:33:14 AM
. . . "We're drilling down into the numbers, looking at all of our online score reporting information. ...where they finished in their last couple of games of the season..."
Linfield 4-6 in last 10 D3 games. 
Pacific 6-4
Chapman 8-2
Pomona-Pitzer 9-1

I know 10 is not a couple, but you get the point.
"Last 10 games" is not a criterion!  This is great research and discussion!

Respectfully, let's keep this as true to form as we can. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 10, 2012, 10:21:53 AM
Either way, history shows that a team NOT in the regional rankings in the last week will NOT be awarded a Pool C. The NCAA is basically telling them start packing their things for the summer.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 10:45:28 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 10:18:32 AM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2012, 02:43:17 AM
You may think it's semantics, but keep in mind that the criterion is results versus regionally ranked teams, not wins necessarily. Of course wins are a very large component of those results, but it's not total wins, winning percentage or anything else alone. It's the artfully complex word "results."

+1!  YES!  Results are important because the team prepared a schedule that the coach tried to anticipate strong opponents.

You must reward a team that will go out and schedule tough opponents!
I disagree on some level.  Especially in the west, this leads to a case of the rich getting richer. If you've got the budget to travel to schedule these teams, then you stand a better chance to get into a regional?  Linfield traveled to both Arizona and Chapman.  Trinity and Pomona-Pitzer don't seem to have taken any flights (how much of this is due to budget constraints?  I suspect a lot!).  Pacific seems to be paying a price for playing non-D3 opponents in Hawaii, which I won't attempt to defend. Chapman, at .500, is only in this conversation because they've also paid to be here. 
If you additionally get results in these games, then that should be rewarded. But scheduling them?  I don't agree that should be given much weight.  Especially for a team who, in games played in common with everyone else in their conference, didn't perform very well. 

 

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 10:47:55 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 10:20:14 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 09:50:20 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 09:33:14 AM
. . . "We're drilling down into the numbers, looking at all of our online score reporting information. ...where they finished in their last couple of games of the season..."
Linfield 4-6 in last 10 D3 games. 
Pacific 6-4
Chapman 8-2
Pomona-Pitzer 9-1

I know 10 is not a couple, but you get the point.
"Last 10 games" is not a criterion!  This is great research and discussion!

Respectfully, let's keep this as true to form as we can.
I suggest that I am simply "drilling down into the numbers", which apparently is done according to the interpretation of the criteria.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on May 10, 2012, 10:56:00 AM
Richard,
How has Chapman paid to be where they are?
Please explain what you mean.
Thanks.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 11:14:24 AM
Quote from: dahlby on May 10, 2012, 10:56:00 AM
Richard,
How has Chapman paid to be where they are?
Please explain what you mean.
Thanks.
As a 20-20 team, the only reason I can see that people are talking about them being a pool C candidate is due to their very good strength of schedule.  The only way this is possible is their ability to schedule good teams, which requires significant travel and thus a significant budget.  Looking at their schedule, it seems like their only flight is to Trinity, as 4 NWC teams traveled to Orange this year.  But this is a function of them making this trip in previous years.  No offense intended towards Chapman (one of the premier programs in D3), but from my viewpoint, they haven't had the kind of year to justify still being in the conversation.  Its strength of schedule which is strongly a function of athletic budget. 
Does that make sense?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 11:15:41 AM
I wonder if the Trinity-Chapman series is home and home for 2102-13.  Chapman may have traveled first and resumed their pattern of coming to Texas (McMurry) in alternating years.

Pacific traveled to Hawai'i!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 11:17:18 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 01:52:53 AM
Bro is on the regional committee but not the chair and not on the national committee.  The SCIAC has a rep too.
The proper thing to do is to recuse one's self (leave the room, hang up the phone) when one's team is in the discussion.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 10, 2012, 11:22:30 AM
I think that the Pacific NW teams have a particularly difficult time in getting in enough in region games because of their location/weather. Pacific went to Hawaii, which makes sense from a "getting the team ready/fun" standpoint, but they have to realize that this will (and has) impacted them from playing in the post season. The Ariz tournament would have likely been a better choice from that standpoint, but it is hard to argue with going to Hawaii to play some baseball in the winter.  8-)

Based on Ricky's interview the committee takes into account the travel issues in the West when ranking teams, which is logical. Trinity has the advantage that it can get enough in region games without having to travel, but I it is good that they have set up a home/home series with Chapman, so they should be going to Ca next year. I think it would be worthwhile for them to extend this trip a couple of days and get in two more games if they could, but at least 3 games with Chapman helps with their SoS and RPI. They have teams coming to them from the North so they don't have to travel to Ariz. I think the  new SCAC gives them more OOC flexibility, but they are able to get in enough tough games to keep them in the hunt every year.


Late add: I am quite sure they would love for some of the Pacific NW teams to come down early season to play, which maybe with the new SCAC they can do it. SW Airlines goes in their and it is quite reasonable place to stay so who knows.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 11:45:06 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 11:17:18 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 01:52:53 AM
Bro is on the regional committee but not the chair and not on the national committee.  The SCIAC has a rep too.
The proper thing to do is to recuse one's self (leave the room, hang up the phone) when one's team is in the discussion.

RT,

The proper thing?  This is a fan posting board not a courtroom.  In knowing Bro as a person, his reputation, and his body of work as a coach I'm just suppose to not say anything when another calls into question his character?

I think my response was fair.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 10, 2012, 11:47:40 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 10, 2012, 11:22:30 AM
I think that the Pacific NW teams have a particularly difficult time in getting in enough in region games because of their location/weather. Pacific went to Hawaii, which makes sense from a "getting the team ready/fun" standpoint, but they have to realize that this will (and has) impacted them from playing in the post season. The Ariz tournament would have likely been a better choice from that standpoint, but it is hard to argue with going to Hawaii to play some baseball in the winter.  8-)

Based on Ricky's interview the committee takes into account the travel issues in the West when ranking teams, which is logical. Trinity has the advantage that it can get enough in region games without having to travel, but I it is good that they have set up a home/home series with Chapman, so they should be going to Ca next year. I think it would be worthwhile for them to extend this trip a couple of days and get in two more games if they could, but at least 3 games with Chapman helps with their SoS and RPI. They have teams coming to them from the North so they don't have to travel to Ariz. I think the  new SCAC gives them more OOC flexibility, but they are able to get in enough tough games to keep them in the hunt every year.


Late add: I am quite sure they would love for some of the Pacific NW teams to come down early season to play, which maybe with the new SCAC they can do it. SW Airlines goes in their and it is quite reasonable place to stay so who knows.
TU thought that playing Chapman this year would help their SOS...didnt turn out that way.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 11:45:06 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 11:17:18 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 01:52:53 AM
Bro is on the regional committee but not the chair and not on the national committee.  The SCIAC has a rep too.
The proper thing to do is to recuse one's self (leave the room, hang up the phone) when one's team is in the discussion.

RT,

The proper thing?  This is a fan posting board not a courtroom.  In knowing Bro as a person, his reputation, and his body of work as a coach I'm just suppose to not say anything when another calls into question his character?

I think my response was fair.
He was speaking of Brosius recusing himself from the regional ranking committee when Linfield was being discussed, not your comment.  But when there are only two spots in the regional rankings being discussed (after Trinity and the 3 AQs), discussing any team is in effect also a discussion of Linfield.  That's not a personal attack on Brosius, but it is a problem.  And stating that the other conferences have reps as well is not the same thing. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 10, 2012, 12:08:42 PM
The only alternative to avoiding having Brosius (or another coach from a team in the mix) there is to have a committee made up of guys that are not baseball coaches or affiliated whatsoever with any university... which would make even less sense.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 10, 2012, 12:08:42 PM
The only alternative to avoiding having Brosius (or another coach from a team in the mix) there is to have a committee made up of guys that are not baseball coaches or affiliated whatsoever with any university... which would make even less sense.
Or have remotely well-defined criteria that can't be easily manipulated...
I haven't seen the regional rankings, but the rumors are well known.  What I also haven't seen is a justification for those rankings should the rumors be true, or anything coming close to a justification. El Hombre on the other hand has made strong arguments against, simply using the criteria listed in the handbook and common sense interpretations for loaded terms like "results".

I don't make the connection from recusing coaches from teams "in the mix" to jumping to a committee of non-baseball coaches.  There are plenty of teams that are definitely not "in the mix".  But that's a different conversation.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 12:18:58 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 12:06:29 PM
He was speaking of Brosius recusing himself from the regional ranking committee when Linfield was being discussed, not your comment. 

Sorry Ralph.  My mistake.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on May 10, 2012, 12:40:21 PM
Richard Hamstocks,
I also am surprised that Chapman is even being discussed. I see no way that they will be selected for the playoffs.


Chapman has played a home and home series with Texas teams and NW teams for a long time...alternating between the
areas when possible to save costs. Chapman's strength of schedule is also determined by the volume of requests that come every year from teams that are not afraid to play a team of their caliber. I doubt very much that CU's travel budget is much more than other "quality" teams that want to play good competition, so that their SOS doesn't keep them from post season
participation.

That being said, it will be interesting to see how CU handles the SOS factor when playing a full SCIAC schedule. Hopefully they will drop the NAIA games and continue to schedule the tougher out of conference D3 opponents.

Time will tell.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 10, 2012, 12:48:33 PM
I see it this way... SOMEONE has to be the #6 team in the west region rankings. It doesn't actually mean they are being considered.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 12:51:43 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 11:45:06 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 11:17:18 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 01:52:53 AM
Bro is on the regional committee but not the chair and not on the national committee.  The SCIAC has a rep too.
The proper thing to do is to recuse one's self (leave the room, hang up the phone) when one's team is in the discussion.

RT,

The proper thing?  This is a fan posting board not a courtroom.  In knowing Bro as a person, his reputation, and his body of work as a coach I'm just suppose to not say anything when another calls into question his character?

I think my response was fair.
Sorry that you misinterpreted my response. I fully expect Coach Brosius to leave the room.

Every rep on the committee knows that their behavior is to be the best for the game.  I will not impugn those representatives. (McMurry head coach Lee Driggers was regional committee chair about 5 years ago.  He took the responsibility seriously, too.)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 10, 2012, 09:23:02 AM
Even if a team lands at #6 in the West today, I still do not see them being selected ahead of the other Pool Cs that are awarded NATIONALLY, not regionally.
Big Poppa is right on and people lose the National perspective on Pool B/C. Regional ranking does not get you a bid !!

I fully respect all people on the all committees and I understand they can not be present when their teams are being discussed. They are the experts since they see the teams day in and day out for many years and understand what it takes to succeed in a regional. The best teams are at the regional's and the best teams win it on the field at the regionals.

Teams that dont make only have themselves to blame. WIN YOUR POOL A if you are in a Pool A conference otherwise you can only blame your selves. Pool B/C not part of Pool A conference. Play a tough schedule and win your games, then you are in control of your destiny. 30 win seasons do not get you Pool B/C although many think it does.

In a perfect world with enough money and time Pool B/C with n expanded field would help eliminate some of these conversations.

It is very tough to pick the Pool B/C teams since so many teams that are literally very similar. Too many teams with too few spots. No matter who is chosen someone will feel left out and will start reciting numbers on why their team should have went.

Big Poppa is right. A #6 in the West may never see the field IF Primary and Secondary Criteria is used from the DIII NCAA Championship Handbook...

But....I still think there may be other factors.....Hope I am wrong on this one.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 02:30:48 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 10, 2012, 09:23:02 AM
Even if a team lands at #6 in the West today, I still do not see them being selected ahead of the other Pool Cs that are awarded NATIONALLY, not regionally.
Big Poppa is right on and people lose the National perspective on Pool B/C. Regional ranking does not get you a bid !!

I fully respect all people on the all committees and I understand they can not be present when their teams are being discussed. They are the experts since they see the teams day in and day out for many years and understand what it takes to succeed in a regional. The best teams are at the regional's and the best teams win it on the field at the regionals.

Teams that dont make only have themselves to blame. WIN YOUR POOL A if you are in a Pool A conference otherwise you can only blame your selves. Pool B/C not part of Pool A conference. Play a tough schedule and win your games, then you are in control of your destiny. 30 win seasons do not get you Pool B/C although many think it does.

In a perfect world with enough money and time Pool B/C with n expanded field would help eliminate some of these conversations.

It is very tough to pick the Pool B/C teams since so many teams that are literally very similar. Too many teams with too few spots. No matter who is chosen someone will feel left out and will start reciting numbers on why their team should have went.

Big Poppa is right. A #6 in the West may never see the field IF Primary and Secondary Criteria is used from the DIII NCAA Championship Handbook...

But....I still think there may be other factors.....Hope I am wrong on this one.

I do, too.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 02:32:06 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 10, 2012, 12:12:10 AM
....factors like who the hosting team is?.......
Hosting team getting a bid?

That is so ... NAIA!   :o
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 10, 2012, 02:44:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 02:32:06 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 10, 2012, 12:12:10 AM
....factors like who the hosting team is?.......
Hosting team getting a bid?

That is so ... NAIA!   :o

At least Lewis and Clark State backed it up on the field nearly every year:) THAT is is a legit program that produces prospect after prospect, including 14 MLB'ers.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 03:43:11 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 10, 2012, 02:44:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 02:32:06 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 10, 2012, 12:12:10 AM
....factors like who the hosting team is?.......
Hosting team getting a bid?

That is so ... NAIA!   :o

At least Lewis and Clark State backed it up on the field nearly every year:) THAT is is a legit program that produces prospect after prospect, including 14 MLB'ers.
Lewis and Clark State?  You are right about that.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on May 10, 2012, 04:50:04 PM
West Region rankings updated:

WEST            
1   Concordia (Texas)   36-9   36-9   
2   Trinity (Texas)   31-8   34-10   
3   Whitworth   25-7-1   26-13-1   
4   La Verne   24-12   25-14   
5   Linfield   22-12   25-15   
6   Pomona-Pitzer   23-11   25-12-1

Would Linfield get a 2nd Pool C in the West and be team #5?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 05:11:16 PM
Quote from: infielddad on May 10, 2012, 04:50:04 PM
West Region rankings updated:

WEST            
1   Concordia (Texas)   36-9   36-9   
2   Trinity (Texas)   31-8   34-10   
3   Whitworth   25-7-1   26-13-1   
4   La Verne   24-12   25-14   
5   Linfield   22-12   25-15   
6   Pomona-Pitzer   23-11   25-12-1

Would Linfield get a 2nd Pool C in the West and be team #5?
I guess I was right....OTHER FACTORS. I was wrong I thought number 6 would be the SHOCK but it is number 5. Teams 1 -5 get in. Team 6 will not and another team will be brought into the Regional. I think the West Regional is now set for teams 1 to 5. I just dont think the number justify this but IT is what is...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebooksmileys.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2FSmileyShocked.png&hash=8220e4a97f40ced95cc3e197d74985aa679612e3)

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-bIINhJ989VE%2FT37nxuuA9GI%2FAAAAAAAAAhU%2Frrf4JySnIz0%2Fs1600%2Fshocked-face-52923156040.gif&hash=93d73ee76d15154302ddc6e5881fa8f70a60771e)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 10, 2012, 05:25:17 PM
Im sorry, but if a 25-15 team gets into the regional as a Pool C, it really shows how weak this region has gotten.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 10, 2012, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: infielddad on May 10, 2012, 04:50:04 PM
West Region rankings updated:

WEST            
1   Concordia (Texas)   36-9   36-9   
2   Trinity (Texas)   31-8   34-10   
3   Whitworth   25-7-1   26-13-1   
4   La Verne   24-12   25-14   
5   Linfield   22-12   25-15   
6   Pomona-Pitzer   23-11   25-12-1

Would Linfield get a 2nd Pool C in the West and be team #5?

I don't know enough about this to say anything about Linfield being in there but I do not see Pomona getting in.  If they do take those top 5 and lets be honest, saving a lot of $$$ would be a big deal to have Linfield in it, what type of team would they bring in?  Would a team be brought in as a 3/4 seed or would they bring in a team that won their conference tournament (that wasn't supposed to) and put them as the #6 seed?  I believe it was St. Norbert that was sent to Chapman a few years back and they got beat by about 25 runs.  Would that be more likely to happen or would a team fly in that will be a higher rank?  I wouldn't mind seeing Linfield vs Klimesh...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 01:14:38 PM
I fully respect all people on the all committees and I understand they can not be present when their teams are being discussed. They are the experts since they see the teams day in and day out for many years and understand what it takes to succeed in a regional. The best teams are at the regional's and the best teams win it on the field at the regionals.

Teams that dont make only have themselves to blame. WIN YOUR POOL A if you are in a Pool A conference otherwise you can only blame your selves. Pool B/C not part of Pool A conference. Play a tough schedule and win your games, then you are in control of your destiny. 30 win seasons do not get you Pool B/C although many think it does.
...
It is very tough to pick the Pool B/C teams since so many teams that are literally very similar. Too many teams with too few spots. No matter who is chosen someone will feel left out and will start reciting numbers on why their team should have went.
...
But....I still think there may be other factors.....Hope I am wrong on this one.
Pacific and Pomona-Pitzer didn't win their conferences.  Agreed, they have themselves to blame.  If the West is only getting 5 teams, (at least) one of them is staying home. 
And one can start reciting numbers, and many already have, myself included.  What I have failed to see is any numbers justifying Linfield entering the rankings at number 5.  Perhaps this is leading you, and many of us, to think there are other factors involved.  It's hard not to be convinced.       
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 05:31:54 PM
Quote from: dp643 on May 10, 2012, 05:25:17 PM
Im sorry, but if a 25-15 team gets into the regional as a Pool C, it really shows how weak this region has gotten.
Linfield finished in 4TH PLACE IN THEIR CONFERENCE......Lost 3 of 4 to 5th place George FOX.....2 of 3 to Co-Conference Champ Pacific...2 of 3 to Co-Conference Champ Whitworth. Yea I know these are not considered.

But honestly does it make sense to a logical person. You wonder why I bash the NCAA for their rules and processes.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 05:34:57 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 10, 2012, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: infielddad on May 10, 2012, 04:50:04 PM
West Region rankings updated:

WEST            
1   Concordia (Texas)   36-9   36-9   
2   Trinity (Texas)   31-8   34-10   
3   Whitworth   25-7-1   26-13-1   
4   La Verne   24-12   25-14   
5   Linfield   22-12   25-15   
6   Pomona-Pitzer   23-11   25-12-1

Would Linfield get a 2nd Pool C in the West and be team #5?

I don't know enough about this to say anything about Linfield being in there but I do not see Pomona getting in.  If they do take those top 5 and lets be honest, saving a lot of $$$ would be a big deal to have Linfield in it, what type of team would they bring in?   Would a team be brought in as a 3/4 seed or would they bring in a team that won their conference tournament (that wasn't supposed to) and put them as the #6 seed?  I believe it was St. Norbert that was sent to Chapman a few years back and they got beat by about 25 runs.  Would that be more likely to happen or would a team fly in that will be a higher rank?  I wouldn't mind seeing Linfield vs Klimesh...

You still have to fly someone into Linfield, if you don't take a NWC team as the 6th!

How does Linfield jump Pomona-Pitzer by the criteria in the handbook.

I don't think that they need to go to Secondary Criteria to make the call!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 10, 2012, 05:37:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 05:34:57 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 10, 2012, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: infielddad on May 10, 2012, 04:50:04 PM
West Region rankings updated:

WEST            
1   Concordia (Texas)   36-9   36-9   
2   Trinity (Texas)   31-8   34-10   
3   Whitworth   25-7-1   26-13-1   
4   La Verne   24-12   25-14   
5   Linfield   22-12   25-15   
6   Pomona-Pitzer   23-11   25-12-1

Would Linfield get a 2nd Pool C in the West and be team #5?

I don't know enough about this to say anything about Linfield being in there but I do not see Pomona getting in.  If they do take those top 5 and lets be honest, saving a lot of $$$ would be a big deal to have Linfield in it, what type of team would they bring in?   Would a team be brought in as a 3/4 seed or would they bring in a team that won their conference tournament (that wasn't supposed to) and put them as the #6 seed?  I believe it was St. Norbert that was sent to Chapman a few years back and they got beat by about 25 runs.  Would that be more likely to happen or would a team fly in that will be a higher rank?  I wouldn't mind seeing Linfield vs Klimesh...

You still have to fly someone into Linfield, if you don't take a NWC team as the 6th!
How does Linfield jump Pomona-Pitzer by the criteria in the handbook.

I don't think that they need to go to Secondary Criteria to make the call!

I realize that, I meant if they took Linfield and a #6 instead of a #5 and #6.  My bad.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 10, 2012, 05:39:58 PM
Wow that is a shock. My first time through this and I guess I would have to see the numbers to understand how it happened. I gota say this smells a bit....

Jack you will likely get your wish....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 10, 2012, 05:44:44 PM
I still go back to 2008. The ASC had 4 30 win teams. And a couple others over 25 wins. They only sent one team to the tournament that year. Now the region is possibly filling Pool C bids with teams that are 4th place in their conference?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 05:53:57 PM
Hmmmmm
??? :o

Yep not even in the top 75 of anything....BUT number 5 in West Regional Rankings.

They lost head to head series with 3 teams in the NWC conference.

Lost to 8th 6th place NWC Team.

Lost 2 of 4 to a 20 loss Chapman team.

And I thought the BCS process was bad....

LINFIELD
In Region % #76
OWP #229
OOWP #115
SOS #206

Few years back Pac Lu got screwed with a 30 win season being Co-Champs with Linfield....

3rd time hosting in 5 years and now this.... >:(  PLEASE EXPLAIN....I am trying to understand
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 10, 2012, 05:57:58 PM
I smell something funny here. This is seriously ridiculous.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 06:03:02 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 05:53:57 PM
Lost to 8th place NWC Team.

incorrect. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 06:07:02 PM
Quote from: infielddad on May 10, 2012, 04:50:04 PM
West Region rankings updated:

WEST            
1   Concordia (Texas)   36-9   36-9   
2   Trinity (Texas)   31-8   34-10   
3   Whitworth   25-7-1   26-13-1   
4   La Verne   24-12   25-14   
5   Linfield   22-12   25-15   
6   Pomona-Pitzer   23-11   25-12-1

Would Linfield get a 2nd Pool C in the West and be team #5?


That is a joke!  Why would the NCAA publish, distribute, and promote the selection criteria if the committee doesn't even use it!  Then provide a detailed interview with the NCAA Asst. Director of Championships explaining the "selection process" and ignore it!

I'd love to see someone from the committee try and explain how they used the NCAA selection criteria they were supposed to "adhere to" and rank Linfield above Pomona or Pacific!  The number 5 position also gives Linfield a cushion in case another team gets sent to the West. 

Sorry Pomona and Pacific - you just got the shaft!  And Chapman, Pac Lu, and Texas-Tyler got jumped over by a team that did not beat anyone according to the criteria, either individually or as a whole!  I wonder how long it will be until we hear what "criteria" they really used to decide this one.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 10, 2012, 06:12:44 PM
11 of their wins came against teams that averaged 9 wins the whole season. Incredible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 10, 2012, 06:31:26 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 05:53:57 PM
3rd time hosting in 5 years and now this.... >:(  PLEASE EXPLAIN....I am trying to understand

Someone have pictures?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 06:38:58 PM
Anybody else think an investigation is in order?  Wishful thinking?  This is absurd.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 07:13:42 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on May 10, 2012, 06:03:02 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 05:53:57 PM
Lost to 8th place NWC Team.

incorrect. 
My BAD...and I was wrong again..

I was so shocked I got it wrong. My eyes were blurring. I guess wins and losses dont count but RESULTS do....

Sorry Linfield lost 2 to Pacific(not ranked but Co-Conference Champs), 2 to Whitworth(NWC POOL A BID), 3 to George Fox(5th PLACE) and a game to Williamette(6th place) and 2 to 20 loss team Chapman and lets not forget a loss to 6th place SCIAC team Claremont.

There is no way you can spin this into this being the right thing. The process is flawed. Emperor has no clothes on.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 07:58:28 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 07:13:42 PM
There is no way you can spin this into this being the right thing. The process is flawed. Emperor has no clothes on.
Unless you count the 3 world series rings...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 10, 2012, 09:27:24 PM
The writing was on the wall when a Linfield player Tweeted "Made the playoffs! #LinfieldBaseball" and another player Tweeted "Amazing! We're going to regionals! #rollcats" on May 9.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 10, 2012, 09:37:54 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2012, 09:27:24 PM
The writing was on the wall when a Linfield player Tweeted "Made the playoffs! #LinfieldBaseball" and another player Tweeted "Amazing! We're going to regionals! #rollcats" on May 9.
At least the kid has the common sense to realize that it is indeed "amazing".  "Unbelievable" would have worked too.  "Nonsensical", "absurd", etc. All good.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 09:51:25 PM
I have posted the side-by-side comparison of Pomona-Pitzer versus Linfield in the Daily Dose blog.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2012/05/10/third-regional-rankings-2/#comment-2226

P-P wins every comparison.



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 10, 2012, 10:03:52 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 09:51:25 PM
I have posted the side-by-side comparison of Pomona-Pitzer versus Linfield in the Daily Dose blog.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2012/05/10/third-regional-rankings-2/#comment-2226

P-P wins every comparison.
It doesn't disprove your overall point, but I would argue that Linfield wins the results against ranked opponents criterion. And Linfield does have an edge in SOS on the NCAA PDF.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 10, 2012, 10:13:36 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2012, 10:03:52 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 09:51:25 PM
I have posted the side-by-side comparison of Pomona-Pitzer versus Linfield in the Daily Dose blog.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2012/05/10/third-regional-rankings-2/#comment-2226

P-P wins every comparison.
It doesn't disprove your overall point, but I would argue that Linfield wins the results against ranked opponents criterion. And Linfield does have an edge in SOS on the NCAA PDF.
Still not enough to justify their #5 seed. The process in broken. Try to tell me they are one of the 16 best Pool C bids by the numbers when they final bids are awarded in  few days...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 10, 2012, 10:17:08 PM
Can anyone say BCS or is that BS. So much for all the technical explanations on SOS, quality wins yada yada yada.  Its back to smoke filled rooms and playing favorites. Too bad, I was just begining to think that there was logic to the system.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on May 10, 2012, 10:21:02 PM
You guys are just now figuring out a handful of D3 baseball selections are picked in a similar way the lottery numbers are chosen on a weekly basis?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2012, 10:03:52 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 09:51:25 PM
I have posted the side-by-side comparison of Pomona-Pitzer versus Linfield in the Daily Dose blog.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2012/05/10/third-regional-rankings-2/#comment-2226

P-P wins every comparison.
It doesn't disprove your overall point, but I would argue that Linfield wins the results against ranked opponents criterion. And Linfield does have an edge in SOS on the NCAA PDF.
Please elaborate Ricky.

Can you post the link for the NCAA SOS pdf? I took the .510 vs .509 off the D3baseball.com front page.

Thanks.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 10, 2012, 10:26:30 PM
The thing that I keep thinking about are the P-P players, coaches and families. This is a very sad day for DIII baseball.

Is there any process to review these kinds of decisions by the AD's?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 10:29:19 PM
Let's see what happens this weekend.

Facing CTX's Hays as the opening game pitcher in a #1 vs #6 is not any easier than facing TU's Klimesh in a #2 vs #5, unless PP stays home.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 10, 2012, 10:32:28 PM
Could we possibly see two teams sent in for the west with both Linfield and P-P being left home?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 10, 2012, 10:35:57 PM
BigPoppa, have you seen this happen in the past?

Based on what I have read they will try to compare teams in region as much as possible, but I am new to this so I have no experience. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 10, 2012, 10:36:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2012, 10:03:52 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 09:51:25 PM
I have posted the side-by-side comparison of Pomona-Pitzer versus Linfield in the Daily Dose blog.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2012/05/10/third-regional-rankings-2/#comment-2226

P-P wins every comparison.
It doesn't disprove your overall point, but I would argue that Linfield wins the results against ranked opponents criterion. And Linfield does have an edge in SOS on the NCAA PDF.
Please elaborate Ricky.

Can you post the link for the NCAA SOS pdf? I took the .510 vs .509 off the D3baseball.com front page.

Thanks.
To me, 4-3 is more impressive than 3-2 in terms of results against ranked teams. Not sure why that would be controversial. I'm getting a kick out of the karma dinging though.

The SOS is found on the PDF's (http://web1.ncaa.org/champsel_new/exec/pdf/staticpdfrank) below the regional rankings.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 10, 2012, 10:37:50 PM
QuoteThe thing that I keep thinking about are the P-P players, coaches and families. This is a very sad day for DIII baseball.

That is exactly the same thing I was thinking about. How do you explain to those kids why they didn't get to go and a team with an inferior record takes your place. The credibility is gone. At the very least the NCAA , if they pick Linfield, (and they probably will), owes an explanation for this selection. However, don't hold your breath, none is likely to be forthcoming.

Texas BB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 10:42:46 PM
http://web1.ncaa.org/champsel_new/exec/pdf/staticpdfrank

This came up.  I could not get to the website.

An unrecoverable system error occurred. Please try this task again at a later time.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 10, 2012, 10:46:07 PM
You explain it to the kids by saying " you should have won the Pool A bid." Win the bid versus being handed a bid. Anyone left home on Monday has themselves to blame before blaming others.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 10, 2012, 10:49:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 02:32:06 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 10, 2012, 12:12:10 AM
....factors like who the hosting team is?.......
Hosting team getting a bid?

That is so ... NAIA!   :o

Well, there's always this - based on Linfield's performance this year against Brian Rauh, a Klimesh/Linfield match up might produce an NCAA single-game record for strikeouts!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 10, 2012, 10:49:24 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 10:42:46 PM
http://web1.ncaa.org/champsel_new/exec/pdf/staticpdfrank

This came up.  I could not get to the website.

An unrecoverable system error occurred. Please try this task again at a later time.
Plan B: try to view the West link at the bottom from here (http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/regional_rankings).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 10, 2012, 11:08:21 PM
I'm very happy that I'm not on the West RAC. I think there's a top three, probably four, and a mess that follows. I seem to be in minority, but to me Linfield is in that mess justifiably. I'm not saying I agree after the top three or four, but I don't think it's ludicrous that Linfield is among the fairly long list of contenders for the last two spots in the West.

Where Linfield gets hammered is common opponents.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 11:14:59 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 10, 2012, 10:26:30 PM
The thing that I keep thinking about are the P-P players, coaches and families. This is a very sad day for DIII baseball.

Is there any process to review these kinds of decisions by the AD's?

Stitches -
My wife and I said the same thing.  Education is the most important thing for the students.  Therefore we send them to these "highly-ranked" institutions so they can "learn from the best".  As a result, you would expect them to witness integrity and transparency.  What are the Pomona student athletes to take from this experience?  What lesson can they pass on to their children in the future?  The NCAA should set a good example and right the wrong.  That would be a good lesson for all. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 11:26:33 PM
I see the problem.  We either believe the NCAA's numbers (and boy do I have a history with them.  They probably don't want to see me coming.) or we believe PrestoSports.com

NCAA numbers

PP OWP = .490;  OOWP  =  .507;  RPI = .496

LIN OWP = .500;  OOWP = 0.514  RPI = .505
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 11:37:52 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2012, 11:08:21 PM
I'm very happy that I'm not on the West RAC. I think there's a top three, probably four, and a mess that follows. I seem to be in minority, but to me Linfield is in that mess justifiably. I'm not saying I agree after the top three or four, but I don't think it's ludicrous that Linfield is among the fairly long list of contenders for the last two spots in the West.

Where Linfield gets hammered is common opponents.

Ricky -
With all due respect, I am stunned by your position! 

I read your interview with Anthony Holman - it was very informative and gave many of us confidence that the "selection process" was above board and fair to all.  When you read his (AH) comments regarding adherence to the criteria, etc., one's confidence is restored in the system.  Then this happens.  And you defend it! 

Can you please use the NCAA selection criteria to justify Linfield's #5 ranking? 
Many on these boards would love to see how that is even possible. 

Ranking of West Region Teams:
Using the NCAA Selection Criteria


Criteria:  Win-Loss % Against Regional Opponents
1.   Concordia  .800
2.   Trinity  .795
3.   Whitworth  .773
4.   Pacific  .769
5.   Texas-Tyler  .694
6.   Pomona  .676
7.   La Verne  .667
8.   Texas Lutheran  .667
9.   Texas-Dallas  .658
10.   Pac Lu / Linfield (tie)  .647

Criteria:  Strength of Schedule
1.   Chapman  .560  (Nationally #29)
2.   La Verne  .532  (Nationally #103)
3.   Hardin-Simmons .531 (Nationally #104)
4.   (tie 3) George Fox  .531 (Nationally #104)
5.   Mississippi College  (Nationally #126)
6.   Pac Lu  .523  (Nationally #134)
7.   Occidental  .511 (Nationally #192)
8.   Pomona  .510  (Nationally #202)
9.   Linfield  .509  (Nationally #209)
10.   Whittier  .506  (Nationally #220)

RPI (not listed as a criteria, but factors W/L % and SOS)
1.   Concordia  .577
2.   Trinity  .571
3.   La Verne  .566
4.   Whitworth  .564
5.   Pacific  .563
6.   Chapman  .556
7.   Pac Lu  .554
8.   Pomona  .552
9.   Texas-Tyler  .551
10.   George Fox  .545
11.   Linfield .544

Criteria:  Wins  RESULTS Versus Regionally Ranked Teams
1.   George Fox: 5  (overall 5 – 5)
2.   Chapman:  5  (overall 5 – 8)
3.   La Verne:  4  (overall 4 – 4)
4.   Linfield:  4 (overall 4 – 3)
5.   Pacific:  3 (overall 3 – 3)
6.   Pomona:  3  (overall 3 – 2)
7.   Whitworth:  2  (overall 2 – 2)
8.   Pac Lu:  2 (overall 2 – 2)
9.   Trinity:  1 (overall 1 – 0)
10.   Concordia:  1  (overall 1 – 1)
11.   Texas-Tyler:  1  (overall 1 – 3)

Criteria:  Head-to-Head Competition
(records in games between the potential Pool C teams)

1.   George Fox:  8 – 5
2.   Pac Lu:  5 – 6
3.   Pacific:  4 – 2
4.   Linfield:  4 – 3
5.   Chapman:  3 – 5
6.   Pomona:  2 – 1
7.   Trinity:  2 - 1
8.   Texas-Tyler:  0 - 0



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 11:50:39 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 09:51:25 PM
I have posted the side-by-side comparison of Pomona-Pitzer versus Linfield in the Daily Dose blog.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2012/05/10/third-regional-rankings-2/#comment-2226

P-P wins every comparison.

Ralph -
Great comparison!  All you have to do is see the teams compared side-by-side using the selection criteria and the decision is easy!

Can you forward this to Anthony Holman?  He should see this so he can correct the obvious "mistake" that was made.  It will put an end to this and restore faith in the NCAA and the process. 

Thanks!



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: El Hombre on May 10, 2012, 11:50:39 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2012, 09:51:25 PM
I have posted the side-by-side comparison of Pomona-Pitzer versus Linfield in the Daily Dose blog.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2012/05/10/third-regional-rankings-2/#comment-2226

P-P wins every comparison.

Ralph -
Great comparison!  All you have to do is see the teams compared side-by-side using the selection criteria and the decision is easy!

Can you forward this to Anthony Holman?  He should see this so he can correct the obvious "mistake" that was made.  It will put an end to this and restore faith in the NCAA and the process. 

Thanks!
Ricky Nelson gave me the NCAA's numbers where there is a problem, and numbers that favor Linfield.  I just added that to the blog in the last few minutes.

I hope that Prestosports.com will review their formulae in calculating the OWP/OOWP/SOS. So far, I have not found any designations of in-region to be in error.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 10, 2012, 11:56:48 PM
I didn't say I agreed with it. I simply stated that Linfield is in the mix justifiably.

The NCAA's numbers are slightly different than those you cite, and I can't speak for the RAC.

If you don't have a crazy good in-region winning percentage (.750+), you better have a good schedule. That stated, I think Linfield, Pacific, Pomona, Pac Lu and about six others are in the mix. How the dice cup spit out Linfield and Pomona I have no idea, but Linfield's only true weakness is common opponents.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 11, 2012, 12:26:17 AM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2012, 11:56:48 PM
I didn't say I agreed with it. I simply stated that Linfield is in the mix justifiably.

The NCAA's numbers are slightly different than those you cite, and I can't speak for the RAC.

If you don't have a crazy good in-region winning percentage (.750+), you better have a good schedule. That stated, I think Linfield, Pacific, Pomona, Pac Lu and about six others are in the mix. How the dice cup spit out Linfield and Pomona I have no idea, but Linfield's only true weakness is common opponents.
That and they finished 4th in their conference and the CO-CHAMP, who won the series against Linfield isnt even ranked???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 11, 2012, 12:49:21 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on May 11, 2012, 12:26:17 AM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2012, 11:56:48 PM
I didn't say I agreed with it. I simply stated that Linfield is in the mix justifiably.

The NCAA's numbers are slightly different than those you cite, and I can't speak for the RAC.

If you don't have a crazy good in-region winning percentage (.750+), you better have a good schedule. That stated, I think Linfield, Pacific, Pomona, Pac Lu and about six others are in the mix. How the dice cup spit out Linfield and Pomona I have no idea, but Linfield's only true weakness is common opponents.
That and they finished 4th in their conference and the CO-CHAMP, who won the series against Linfield isnt even ranked???
I hear you, I really do. I think Pacific has one of the biggest gripes if not the biggest.

Standings can matter ("shall be considered ...") according to the criteria. But Trinity (Conn.) once received an at-large bid after not even qualifying for the NESCAC tourney.

The rankings are the collective orders of the RAC's only this season. The national committee has not altered them. Four coaches and one administrator from the West Region decided the order. As easy as it would be to blame the NCAA, it's your neighbors who rank the teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2012, 12:51:36 AM
BTW, the second ranked team in New England is... St Joseph's Maine.  (That is not the first time that that error has been made.)

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/regional_rankings
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2012, 01:12:49 AM
See the error to which I refer, the #2 ranked team.  Who proofreads their stuff?

QuoteNEW ENGLAND            
1   Wheaton (Mass.)   32-7   34-8   
2      36-5   36-5   
3   Keene State   28-8   29-11   
4   Trinity (Conn.)   25-7   29-9   
5   Western New England   31-9   32-11   
6   Amherst   20-6   23-8   
7   Bowdoin   21-14   23-16   
8   Southern Maine   21-13   23-16   
9   Eastern Connecticut State   19-9   28-11   
10   Bridgewater State   24-10   30-13
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 11, 2012, 05:35:59 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 10, 2012, 10:32:28 PM
Could we possibly see two teams sent in for the west with both Linfield and P-P being left home?
Justice would be served and I would have restored faith in the process working to reward the best teams in Pool B/C by using the primary/secondary criteria correctly. The best teams NATIONALLY not regionally I hope will be rewarded POOL B/C bids based upon their record on the field instead of hosting a tournament and past history

but

somehow I feel you see both teams in Oregon, although the numbers may not support it  :( :o :'(
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 11, 2012, 06:00:48 AM
More data common opponents

Pomona beat Claremont 4 times. Linfield lost once to Claremont
Pomona beat Chapman 2 out of 3. Linfield lost 2 out of 4 to Chapman
Pomona beat NWC Champ Whitworth once Linfield lost 2 of 3 to Whitworth
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 11, 2012, 06:01:54 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2012, 01:12:49 AM
See the error to which I refer, the #2 ranked team.  Who proofreads their stuff?

QuoteNEW ENGLAND            
1   Wheaton (Mass.)   32-7   34-8   
2      36-5   36-5   
3   Keene State   28-8   29-11   
4   Trinity (Conn.)   25-7   29-9   
5   Western New England   31-9   32-11   
6   Amherst   20-6   23-8   
7   Bowdoin   21-14   23-16   
8   Southern Maine   21-13   23-16   
9   Eastern Connecticut State   19-9   28-11   
10   Bridgewater State   24-10   30-13
Same ones that proof reads the DIII NCAA Championship handbook. The NCAA with its billions in revenue need to hire a few bright college interns.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 11, 2012, 08:30:48 AM
They should fly 2 teams into this region and be done. Linfield making the region with almost half their wins against garbage teams shows that its all about $$$ and not the selection criteria. Its still pathetic any way you dice it up.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 11, 2012, 09:14:56 AM
Quote from: dp643 on May 11, 2012, 08:30:48 AM
They should fly 2 teams into this region and be done. Linfield making the region with almost half their wins against garbage teams shows that its all about $$$ and not the selection criteria. Its still pathetic any way you dice it up.

I am not sure that I see either Linfield or P-P making it. They need to be selected ahead of teams when compared to them NATIONALLY for a Pool C and the majority of the argument here is focused REGIONALLY. I think the WEST may only get 4 west teams and two flown in.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 11, 2012, 10:23:25 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 11, 2012, 09:14:56 AM
Quote from: dp643 on May 11, 2012, 08:30:48 AM
They should fly 2 teams into this region and be done. Linfield making the region with almost half their wins against garbage teams shows that its all about $$$ and not the selection criteria. Its still pathetic any way you dice it up.

I am not sure that I see either Linfield or P-P making it. They need to be selected ahead of teams when compared to them NATIONALLY for a Pool C and the majority of the argument here is focused REGIONALLY. I think the WEST may only get 4 west teams and two flown in.

This is how it should be, but I have my doubts.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on May 11, 2012, 10:54:17 AM
I think you are kidding yourself if you think Linfield will be left out. All they needed was to put the Cats in at #5 so that they could justify putting them in the regional to save $$...I'd say mission accomplished by the NCAA

They couldn't have done any of this with PP at 5 and Linfield at 6. They'd either have to take both or leave both at that point.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on May 11, 2012, 11:02:12 AM
Rat is right. There will be huge pressure from the eastern regions to limit the west to the 3 pool A's and 1 pool C. Without an economic chip the NCAA has no bargaining power to fend off the eastern regions that have greater number of Pool C teams with better "numbers."
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 11, 2012, 11:08:20 AM
Either way, we have this argument every year (though I am not saying that Linfield deserves to be in), but teams that do not win their Pool A bid cannot complain about being left out. They had a chance to get in on their own, and didn't get it done.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on May 11, 2012, 11:14:03 AM
Poppa - I don't disagree with the basic point "you need to win." But that being said; the reality of the D3 system favors the easter regions where distances are short and the number of teams is great. We had a lengthy discussion 10-days ago about why the formula for Pool C does not work in the west. It concluded with a quote from the interview that acknowledges it.

This is my pet peeve with D3; it is all about the east coast, it always has been and always will be.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 11, 2012, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 11, 2012, 11:08:20 AM
Either way, we have this argument every year (though I am not saying that Linfield deserves to be in), but teams that do not win their Pool A bid cannot complain about being left out. They had a chance to get in on their own, and didn't get it done.

My team had no shot at getting in, so that's not my argument. Bottom line is Linfield doesn't deserve to be in either.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2012, 11:33:56 AM
Quote from: dp643 on May 11, 2012, 08:30:48 AM
They should fly 2 teams into this region and be done. Linfield making the region with almost half their wins against garbage teams shows that its all about $$$ and not the selection criteria. Its still pathetic any way you dice it up.
This is a discussion that occurs in these debates about the teams that "you have to play" versus the teams that "you wanna play".

Pomona-Pitzer has to play Cal Tech (0-28) for four games.

Linfield has to play 4 3 games each against UPS (6-18), Whitman 5-19) and Lewis & Clark (4-20).

If you want to see how to game the system, the NESCAC divides into divisions and Trinity CT only "has to" play 12 games among its 4 division opponents.  Since there are a plethora of teams in New England, even last place Colby is 3-9 in conference/division but 16-17 overall (13-8 non-division).

This allows me to throw out the SOS numbers in the West. We are talking apples and oranges turnips.

The most relevant measure between Linfield and P-P in common opponents which are who you "wanna play".  P-P has the dramatic edge there, 10-4 versus 7-5.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 11, 2012, 11:38:35 AM
I came from a D1 world and I did not understand the issues around D3 seeding until this year. The list of teams with their SoS opened my eyes when I saw how regionally grouped  the SoS numbers were. Reading the interview that Ricky did helped me understand the thinking in this area by the NCAA and this makes sense.

Now one hand you want to reward the top teams nationally, but you also have to take into consideration the limitations of a diverse region like the West, so you would expect to have some regional teams with weaker numbers get in over teams with stronger numbers from other regions.

Obviously there is going to be some consternation and discussions around bubble teams, but something is seriously wrong if the data between the NCAA and Presto sports is so off that creates a clear difference in rankings. I am a numbers guy and data is data, and it can be traced and fixed if someone wants to dig into it and fix it. What I saw yesterday was either a) Someone has messed up their calculations or b) Blatant manipulation of the system.

I am hoping it is a) and it is fixed sometime before Sunday.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 11, 2012, 12:19:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2012, 11:33:56 AM
Quote from: dp643 on May 11, 2012, 08:30:48 AM
They should fly 2 teams into this region and be done. Linfield making the region with almost half their wins against garbage teams shows that its all about $$$ and not the selection criteria. Its still pathetic any way you dice it up.
This is a discussion that occurs in these debates about the teams that "you have to play" versus the teams that "you wanna play".

Pomona-Pitzer has to play Cal Tech (0-28) for four games.

Linfield has to play 4 3 games each against UPS (6-20), Whitman 5-19) and Lewis & Clark (4-20).

If you want to see how to game the system, the NESCAC divides into divisions and Trinity CT only "has to" play 12 games among its 4 division opponents.  Since there are a plethora of teams in New England, even last place Colby is 3-9 in conference/division but 16-17 overall (13-8 non-division).

This allows me to throw out the SOS numbers in the West. We are talking apples and oranges turnips.

The most relevant measure between Linfield and P-P in common opponents which are who you "wanna play".  P-P has the dramatic edge there, 10-4 versus 7-5.

I agree with your points, I only point out a minor nit.  NWC teams only have to play each other 3 times in-conference.  Some teams do however schedule non-conference games against conference foes to fill out schedule, like Linfield/PLU/G. Fox did last weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2012, 12:28:08 PM
Thanks whatagame. I forgot that they dropped back to 3-game series about 2-3 years ago.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2012, 12:34:11 PM
Here's my take on Strength of Schedule, motivated by arguments that people have made above. 
Linfield had 22 D3 wins. Pomona-Pitzer had 25 D3 wins, four of which were against Cal Tech.
I'm going to put them on common footing by looking at their best 22 D3 wins (so Pomona-Pitzer loses 3 of their wins against Cal Tech).
Next, I look at the winning percentage of the teams they beat. Beat a team with a higher winning percentage, we'll call it a higher quality win. 
And because Pomona-Pitzer played most of its games against SCIAC opponents, I'm docking every SCIAC team 4 wins (for Cal Tech, though one could argue that some of the NWC teams aren't much better...)
Now I'll order these winning percentages, and take partial sums.  (sum of your worst k wins as k moves from 1 to 22).
Now I'll plot these on the same graph.  It looks like this:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv697%2Ffreemumia%2FSoS.jpg&hash=c56034ac085987cf015e1373acee056bfaeed9b2)
Pomona-Pitzer in orange and Linfield in purple.
Despite starting behind (due to the 0% winning percentage of Cal Tech for the first game), Pomona-Pitzer's quality win sum is running away from Linfield's. Using opponents winning percentage as our metric, strength of schedule is strongly favored towards Pomona-Pitzer.  Of course,  this isn't in the handbook as a primary criterion. But we can call it "drilling into the numbers".   
Given that I've only penalized SCIAC teams for playing a bad opponent (four times!), I'd guess that now bringing in opponents opponents winning percentage isn't going to help Linfield's case any (though that would be too time consuming) 
Pomona's wins are more impressive than Linfield's.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 11, 2012, 12:53:17 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2012, 12:34:11 PM
Here's my take on Strength of Schedule, motivated by arguments that people have made above. 
Linfield had 22 D3 wins. Pomona-Pitzer had 25 D3 wins, four of which were against Cal Tech.
I'm going to put them on common footing by looking at their best 22 D3 wins (so Pomona-Pitzer loses 3 of their wins against Cal Tech).
Next, I look at the winning percentage of the teams they beat. Beat a team with a higher winning percentage, we'll call it a higher quality win. 
And because Pomona-Pitzer played most of its games against SCIAC opponents, I'm docking every SCIAC team 4 wins (for Cal Tech, though one could argue that some of the NWC teams aren't much better...)
Now I'll order these winning percentages, and take partial sums.  (sum of your worst k wins as k moves from 1 to 22).
Now I'll plot these on the same graph.  It looks like this:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv697%2Ffreemumia%2FSoS.jpg&hash=c56034ac085987cf015e1373acee056bfaeed9b2)
Pomona-Pitzer in orange and Linfield in purple.
Despite starting behind (due to the 0% winning percentage of Cal Tech for the first game), Pomona-Pitzer's quality win sum is running away from Linfield's. Using opponents winning percentage as our metric, strength of schedule is strongly favored towards Pomona-Pitzer.  Of course,  this isn't in the handbook as a primary criterion. But we can call it "drilling into the numbers".   
Given that I've only penalized SCIAC teams for playing a bad opponent (four times!), I'd guess that now bringing in opponents opponents winning percentage isn't going to help Linfield's case any (though that would be too time consuming) 
Pomona's wins are more impressive than Linfield's.

Richard -
Nice analysis!
It is just ANOTHER measure / factor / reason that Pomona earned a higher ranking than Linfield.  Some pundits will discard this since it is not part of the criteria.  However, based on the criteria, there is NO justification for such a ranking, and everyone knows it.  Despite all the calls for someone to try to explain such an outcome, not one individual has stepped up to even try!  Why is that?

Just as others are saying, I hope the NCAA fixes this so there is some faith and integrity restored to the system. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 11, 2012, 01:02:32 PM
Can anyone with more time than I plot the criteria of UT Tyler and Texas Lutheran versus Linfield? The ASC being way down this year really hurt the ASC chance at getting a Pool C. Historically our Opponents Winning Percentage and OO winning percentage are much higher.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 11, 2012, 01:17:41 PM
Quote from: dp643 on May 11, 2012, 01:02:32 PM
Can anyone with more time than I plot the criteria of UT Tyler and Texas Lutheran versus Linfield? The ASC being way down this year really hurt the ASC chance at getting a Pool C. Historically our Opponents Winning Percentage and OO winning percentage are much higher.
It once again so how flawed the process is. It should easy and simple to pick the right teams. Any measure that you use shows Linfield not being a #5 seed.


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 11, 2012, 02:35:46 PM
I am a UTT fan, and even though they won 33 games and were co-champs of the east division of the ASC, they do not deserve a Pool C bid. In the conference tournament they lost 3 of 5 games. Two of those games were to unranked opponents, McMurry and HSU. (However, it can be argued that all the teams that made it to the second round of the conference playoffs were really good teams.) It is too bad that a team with 33 wins is not even in the equation. If Linfield is in the discussion then UTT should be. Linfield is no more deserving in my opinion. Bottom line, neither team should be in the mix as there are others more deserving, such as P-P.



TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 11, 2012, 03:03:49 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 11, 2012, 02:35:46 PM
I am a UTT fan, and even though they won 33 games and were co-champs of the east division of the ASC, they do not deserve a Pool C bid. In the conference tournament they lost 3 of 5 games. Two of those games were to unranked opponents, McMurry and HSU. (However, it can be argued that all the teams that made it to the second round of the conference playoffs were really good teams.) It is too bad that a team with 33 wins is not even in the equation. If Linfield is in the discussion then UTT should be. Linfield is no more deserving in my opinion. Bottom line, neither team should be in the mix as there are others more deserving, such as P-P.



TexasBB
I am amazed each year teams with more than 30 wins do not get Pool C bids but teams with 15 losses and sometime more do and finish 3rd place or lower in the conference get in.

I have no problems if the TEAM wins on the field for Pool A bids with what ever losses they have and POOR SOS and POOR RPI but not for Pool B/C.



The process is broke....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 11, 2012, 03:33:06 PM
The process is definitely broken if Linfield gets a Pool C. The west region is terrible this year and everything 5 on down should be sitting at home during the regional tournament. 2 teams should be flown in and that is that. Anything otherwise its ridiculous.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on May 11, 2012, 03:42:33 PM
I have a problem with the statement "the west is terrible this year." What we know is that there are few teams with stellar records. It may mean that there are few great teams; it also may mean there is a degree of parity. What is wrong is a system which is based upon formula's which do not work in the west because of logisitics. Let the eastern establishment run the program for their benefits; this is what is wrong with D3.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 11, 2012, 03:48:51 PM
Ok, maybe terrible was a harsh word, but the west isnt near as good as it has historically been this year. Like I pointed out numerous times, half the teams in the ASC tournament this year were at 500 or worse. 2 of the final 3 teams were under .500. This is from a league that consistently fills its 8 team tournament with teams that have 25+ wins with at least 6 of its teams.

You can call it parity, and to an extent you may be right. But this isnt good parity.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 11, 2012, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 11, 2012, 02:35:46 PM
I am a UTT fan, and even though they won 33 games and were co-champs of the east division of the ASC, they do not deserve a Pool C bid. In the conference tournament they lost 3 of 5 games. Two of those games were to unranked opponents, McMurry and HSU. (However, it can be argued that all the teams that made it to the second round of the conference playoffs were really good teams.) It is too bad that a team with 33 wins is not even in the equation. If Linfield is in the discussion then UTT should be. Linfield is no more deserving in my opinion. Bottom line, neither team should be in the mix as there are others more deserving, such as P-P.

TexasBB

TexasBB -
A couple of points . . .

First, I agree that based on the criteria, there are several teams more deserving than Linfield.  Just look at the data that ranks the West region teams by each "selection criteria" mandated by the NCAA manual.  Pomona and Pacific are the first in line for Pool C bids, followed by a group of others, of which your team (Texas-Tyler) is part of.  And they are more deserving than Linfield.

Secondly, I commend you for standing on principle and displaying the honesty and integrity in standing up for another team (albeit not your own) based on the criteria.  It's nice to see someone not try to "spin" it so their team comes out ahead.  Let's hope the NCAA follows your lead so we all have restored faith in the system, especially the student athletes.   

P.S.  +1 karma (if I knew how!)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: idalogger on May 11, 2012, 04:48:55 PM
I have no dog in this hunt, having had a son play for UPS the past 4 years who graduates this weekend.  But having seen every one of the teams in this in-region debate play (Linfield, Pacific, PLU, P-P) I think it is ludicrous that Linfield in even included in the discussion. Perhaps it's because of their reputation, but the Cats finished 4th in the NWC. Pacific should be in the discussion - they tied for the conference championship, after all. If Linfield is chosen, the rest of the league will be justifiably outraged.

A Rauh - Dittrick (Pacific's ace) matchup would be terrific.

The bottom -feeders in the NWC are light years ahead of Caltech, IMO.

I sincerely hope that justice is done in this situation.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 11, 2012, 05:16:21 PM
Quote from: idalogger on May 11, 2012, 04:48:55 PM
I have no dog in this hunt, having had a son play for UPS the past 4 years who graduates this weekend.  But having seen every one of the teams in this in-region debate play (Linfield, Pacific, PLU, P-P) I think it is ludicrous that Linfield in even included in the discussion. Perhaps it's because of their reputation, but the Cats finished 4th in the NWC. Pacific should be in the discussion - they tied for the conference championship, after all. If Linfield is chosen, the rest of the league will be justifiably outraged.

A Rauh - Dittrick (Pacific's ace) matchup would be terrific.

The bottom -feeders in the NWC are light years ahead of Caltech, IMO.

I sincerely hope that justice is done in this situation.

Here's an idea - if the NCAA (or committee) wants Linfield to play for some reason, then make it an 8-team regional and let the best battle it out!  And yes - a Rauh versus Dittrick matchup would be great!  The scouts would love it too!

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2012, 12:34:11 PM
Here's my take on Strength of Schedule, motivated by arguments that people have made above. 
Linfield had 22 D3 wins. Pomona-Pitzer had 25 D3 wins, four of which were against Cal Tech.
I'm going to put them on common footing by looking at their best 22 D3 wins (so Pomona-Pitzer loses 3 of their wins against Cal Tech).
Next, I look at the winning percentage of the teams they beat. Beat a team with a higher winning percentage, we'll call it a higher quality win. 
And because Pomona-Pitzer played most of its games against SCIAC opponents, I'm docking every SCIAC team 4 wins (for Cal Tech, though one could argue that some of the NWC teams aren't much better...)
Now I'll order these winning percentages, and take partial sums.  (sum of your worst k wins as k moves from 1 to 22).
Now I'll plot these on the same graph.  It looks like this:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv697%2Ffreemumia%2FSoS.jpg&hash=c56034ac085987cf015e1373acee056bfaeed9b2)
Pomona-Pitzer in orange and Linfield in purple.
Despite starting behind (due to the 0% winning percentage of Cal Tech for the first game), Pomona-Pitzer's quality win sum is running away from Linfield's. Using opponents winning percentage as our metric, strength of schedule is strongly favored towards Pomona-Pitzer.  Of course,  this isn't in the handbook as a primary criterion. But we can call it "drilling into the numbers".   
Given that I've only penalized SCIAC teams for playing a bad opponent (four times!), I'd guess that now bringing in opponents opponents winning percentage isn't going to help Linfield's case any (though that would be too time consuming) 
Pomona's wins are more impressive than Linfield's.
Richard, if you have the time and inclination, I would appreciate if you would go to the appendix in the Baseball Handbook and re-run the OWP/OOWP numbers according the criteria that are used across all D-III teams sports.

http://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/2012/2012-baseball-championships-manual.pdf

Thank you. That will do more to help us understand whose data are "more" accurate.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2012, 12:31:28 AM
Quote from: El Hombre on May 11, 2012, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 11, 2012, 02:35:46 PM
I am a UTT fan, and even though they won 33 games and were co-champs of the east division of the ASC, they do not deserve a Pool C bid. In the conference tournament they lost 3 of 5 games. Two of those games were to unranked opponents, McMurry and HSU. (However, it can be argued that all the teams that made it to the second round of the conference playoffs were really good teams.) It is too bad that a team with 33 wins is not even in the equation. If Linfield is in the discussion then UTT should be. Linfield is no more deserving in my opinion. Bottom line, neither team should be in the mix as there are others more deserving, such as P-P.

TexasBB

TexasBB -
A couple of points . . .

First, I agree that based on the criteria, there are several teams more deserving than Linfield.  Just look at the data that ranks the West region teams by each "selection criteria" mandated by the NCAA manual.  Pomona and Pacific are the first in line for Pool C bids, followed by a group of others, of which your team (Texas-Tyler) is part of.  And they are more deserving than Linfield.

Secondly, I commend you for standing on principle and displaying the honesty and integrity in standing up for another team (albeit not your own) based on the criteria.  It's nice to see someone not try to "spin" it so their team comes out ahead.  Let's hope the NCAA follows your lead so we all have restored faith in the system, especially the student athletes.   

P.S.  +1 karma (if I knew how!)
Karma delivered!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 12, 2012, 02:13:33 AM
After finally digging into things with a bigger shovel, the order of my top five Pool C's in the West would be: Trinity, Pacific, Linfield, Pomona-Pitzer, Pacific Lutheran. Not sure how well that plays with the crowd – especially the LC and P-P parts for whatever reasons – but it's logical to my eyes.

Texas Tyler, Chapman, George Fox and a few others would follow in some order.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 12, 2012, 05:48:15 AM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 12, 2012, 02:13:33 AM
After finally digging into things with a bigger shovel, the order of my top five Pool C's in the West would be: Trinity, Pacific, Linfield, Pomona-Pitzer, Pacific Lutheran. Not sure how well that plays with the crowd – especially the LC and P-P parts for whatever reasons – but it's logical to my eyes.

Texas Tyler, Chapman, George Fox and a few others would follow in some order.
So the West would look like this below with your viewpoint. The West only deserves 1 Pool C based upon the numbers NATIONALLY. So if the right thing is done next weekend Trinity will be only team in the WEST to get a Pool C fid

Pool A
CTX, La Verne, Whitworth

Pool C
Trinity, Pacific, Linfield

If things were right Linfield would be eliminated by a higher Pool C from another region then.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 12, 2012, 09:34:38 AM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 12, 2012, 02:13:33 AM
After finally digging into things with a bigger shovel, the order of my top five Pool C's in the West would be: Trinity, Pacific, Linfield, Pomona-Pitzer, Pacific Lutheran. Not sure how well that plays with the crowd – especially the LC and P-P parts for whatever reasons – but it's logical to my eyes.

Texas Tyler, Chapman, George Fox and a few others would follow in some order.

Ricky -
Can you please justify your ranking of Linfield over Pomona using the NCAA selection criteria listed in the handbook? 
Listed below is the side-by-side comparison of the two teams using the selection criteria mandated by the NCAA (thanks to Ralph Turner).  Based on the criteria, there is NO JUSTIFICATION (unless the selection criteria was NOT adhered to, and other factors were used to select the rankings).


COMPARISON (thanks to Ralph Turner):

"The West Regional Playoffs will be held at Linfield College next week.

The West Region Ranking showing Linfield (Lin) appearing for the first time this season in the Regional Rankings and being slotted ahead of Pomona-Pitzer (P-P) is hard to comprehend by the criteria in the Handbook:

Let's do a side-by-side comparing the criteria in the Handbook . . .

Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.

P-P .676 Lin .647 Advantage P-P

Strength of schedule against in-region competition (from the D3Baseball.com front page at time of this posting listed as "NCAA"):

P-P .510 Lin .509 Advantage P-P


In-region head-to-head:

No meetings this year between P-P and Linfield


In-region results vs. common regional opponents:

P-P 10-4 Lin 7-5 Advantage P-P

P-P vs Whitworth 1-0; UPS 1-1; Chapman 2-1; CMS 4-0; Cal Lu 2-2.

Lin vs Whitworth 1-2; UPS 3-0; Chapman 2-2; CMS 0-1; Cal Lu 1-0.


In-region RESULTS versus regionally ranked teams:

P-P 3-2 .600 Linfield 4-3 .571 (Advantage P-P which has a higher%)

P-P Whitworth 1-0; LaVerne 2-2

Lin Whitworth 1-2; Pac Lu 3-1


Conference postseason contests are included.

Neither conference had a post-season tournament.

By the criteria, Pomona-Pitzer should be ranked ahead of Linfield.

This is unacceptable.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 12, 2012, 09:53:57 AM
Linfield over Pomona - Why

OTHER FACTORS
Top 10 reasons
1) Linfield is hosting West Regional and Pomona is not
2) Linfield has won Regionals in the past Pomona has not
3) Linfield has Coach Scott Brosius and Pomona does not
4) Linfield is considered a better program than Pomona
5) Linfield did not have to play Cal Tech to lower their SOS Pomona did
6) Linfield plays at beautiful ballpark with real distances to their fences Pomona does not
7) Linfield is in Oregon and Pomona is not
8) Linfield played Chapman 4 times in 2012. Pomona did not
9) Linfield lost 3 times to George Fox.Pomona did not  :'(
10) Linfield is a 4th place team in their conference. Pomona is not  :o
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: El Hombre on May 12, 2012, 11:00:07 AM
Ricky / Ralph -
Can someone ask Anthony Holman to look into this matter?
Based on his statements from his interview with Ricky Nelson, he should be very interested . . .

Especially his last statement regarding transparency - that will be important in helping to resolve this matter.

RESPONSES FROM ANTHONY HOLMAN (NCAA): 
AH: " . . . All of our Division III sports have criteria that each of our sport committees are bound by and use in terms of selection criteria, which includes things like won/loss percentage, strength of schedule, things like that, that the committee will review when they're making selections for the national tournament."

AH: ". . . And part of the staff's charge is to make sure that the committee is following those prescribed policies and procedures that have been outlined."


AH: " . . . I'm pretty involved in terms of providing data, stats and guidance, and making sure that the committee is being consistent in their review, making sure they're adhering to our policies and procedures. But the selection is really the charge of the committee. I'm just making sure that we're doing it by the book."

AH:  . . . "But I think for the most part everything that – the decisions that are made really have to be validated by the numbers that we're providing because that's the charge that's been given to us by the championships committee and consistent with the D-III philosophy."

AH: "What I would like to say is that – I would appreciate if you share with the readers – we made an effort to be certainly more transparent."
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 12, 2012, 11:00:40 AM
I am still convinced that neither Linfield nor P-P gets a bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 12, 2012, 11:16:34 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 12, 2012, 11:00:40 AM
I am still convinced that neither Linfield nor P-P gets a bid.
That would be a good thing for the NCAA to restore some respect and show the process does work.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 12, 2012, 11:18:25 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 12, 2012, 11:00:40 AM
I am still convinced that neither Linfield nor P-P gets a bid.

....and what about Pacific?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 12, 2012, 11:46:31 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 12, 2012, 11:18:25 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 12, 2012, 11:00:40 AM
I am still convinced that neither Linfield nor P-P gets a bid.

....and what about Pacific?
Historically, teams not in in the last regional ranking are not awarded pool c bids.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 12, 2012, 11:55:14 AM
What I am saying is there appears to be some inaccuracies in the calculations, and from what I can tell they should be ranked ahead of Linfield based on the data presented here.

I wonder if the NCAA is even aware of this?

What is their quality control in this area?

The boards may be raging, but does anyone from the NCAA even know about the discrepancies?

I would imagine the Pacific AD would be on the phone to the NCAA, but I am not sure of the process.

You were a coach, what would you have been doing if you were put in this situation?



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 12, 2012, 11:58:11 AM
I have been following D3 baseball up close for over 6 years now. It is hard to believe what happened in West Regional Rankings in 2012.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 12, 2012, 01:12:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
Richard, if you have the time and inclination, I would appreciate if you would go to the appendix in the Baseball Handbook and re-run the OWP/OOWP numbers according the criteria that are used across all D-III teams sports.

http://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/2012/2012-baseball-championships-manual.pdf

Thank you. That will do more to help us understand whose data are "more" accurate.
I am quite interested myself.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time to build the database.  Despite it being primary criteria, I have no faith in OWP and OOWP.  While easy to calculate, its not a meaningful metric to me.  From my graph, its obvious that Pomona-Pitzer's 22 wins were better than Linfield's.  The teams P-P beat tended to have higher winning percentages, and this is after penalizing all SCIAC teams for the "Cal Tech effect" with no penalization going for the milder "Whitman, Lewis & Clark effect".  There's no argument there, Linfield beat up on bad teams, and didn't get it done against good teams.  This is obvious by the fact that they are a 4th place team in their conference (and if you want to introduce the tie-breaker they used to choose the pool A bid for the conference, then they're a 5th place team as George Fox swept them in conference play). That they're SoS numbers are anywhere close to Pomona-Pitzer's is simply due to the fact that they lost to some good teams.  Results!  The same "results" that Cal Tech or Lewis & Clark would get against those teams. But apparently the committee is swayed by these "results".

This hasn't been mentioned yes I don't think.
Series Pomona-Pitzer lost this year: Ithaca 0-1.
Series Linfield lost this year: Pacific 1-2, Whitworth 1-2, George Fox 1-3, CMS 0-1.
   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 12, 2012, 01:18:58 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 12, 2012, 01:12:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
Richard, if you have the time and inclination, I would appreciate if you would go to the appendix in the Baseball Handbook and re-run the OWP/OOWP numbers according the criteria that are used across all D-III teams sports.

http://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/2012/2012-baseball-championships-manual.pdf

Thank you. That will do more to help us understand whose data are "more" accurate.
I am quite interested myself.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time to build the database.  Despite it being primary criteria, I have no faith in OWP and OOWP.  While easy to calculate, its not a meaningful metric to me.  From my graph, its obvious that Pomona-Pitzer's 22 wins were better than Linfield's.  The teams P-P beat tended to have higher winning percentages, and this is after penalizing all SCIAC teams for the "Cal Tech effect" with no penalization going for the milder "Whitman, Lewis & Clark effect".  There's no argument there, Linfield beat up on bad teams, and didn't get it done against good teams.  This is obvious by the fact that they are a 4th place team in their conference (and if you want to introduce the tie-breaker they used to choose the pool A bid for the conference, then they're a 5th place team as George Fox swept them in conference play). That they're SoS numbers are anywhere close to Pomona-Pitzer's is simply due to the fact that they lost to some good teams.  Results!  The same "results" that Cal Tech or Lewis & Clark would get against those teams. But apparently the committee is swayed by these "results".

This hasn't been mentioned yes I don't think.
Series Pomona-Pitzer lost this year: Ithaca 0-1.
Series Linfield lost this year: Pacific 1-2, Whitworth 1-2, George Fox 1-3, CMS 0-1.
   
The numbers against Linfield just get better and better. What was the committee thinking?

Pomona beat NWC Champ Pool A bid Whitworth
Pomona beat SCIAC Champ Pool A bid La Verne
Pomona beat NJAC Champ Pool A bid Kean
Pomona beat Chapman 3-2 when Brian Rauh threw 9 innings against them

Linfield loses to these teams
2 of 3 to Pacific(not in Regionally Rankings)
19 loss Claremont team
20 loss Chapman team
20 loss George Fox team
23 loss Williamette

Linfields Quality Wins  :o
3 wins against 28 loss Puget Sound
3 wins against 33 loss Lewis and Clark
3 wins against 34 loss Whitman
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 12, 2012, 06:43:13 PM
Does anyone know how we can send an e mail to those on the NCAA committee that determine the regional rankings?

If they are not aware of the issues, perhaps we can educate them.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 12, 2012, 07:03:03 PM
Send Brosius an email I am sure he will get right after it...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2012, 08:29:09 PM
I am on the road til tomorrow.
We hosted Phil Collins (yes, Genesis) at McMurry this weekend with the release of his new book as a very serious collector of Alamo memorobilia and artifacts.
His first book was published by our Statehouse (McMurry) press.  We had a great time with Mr Collins.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 12, 2012, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
Richard, if you have the time and inclination, I would appreciate if you would go to the appendix in the Baseball Handbook and re-run the OWP/OOWP numbers according the criteria that are used across all D-III teams sports.

http://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/2012/2012-baseball-championships-manual.pdf

Thank you. That will do more to help us understand whose data are "more" accurate.
Ok, this took a few hours, but I was curious. 
First off, let me state that the handbook is incredibly vague and poorly written. Have a lawyer read your handbook NCAA.
We're looking at in-region OWP, which is what is given on the NCAA.com website. Since the handbook (appendix C) doesn't define this quantity, we'll go off of this:
"Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP).  Take each opponent's regular won-lost percentage against other Division III teams (excluding the results against the team in question) and average the percentages."
So we're restricting ourselves to only in-region opponents, and on top of that, we're restricting their won-lost percentages to in-region contests as well. This is an assumption, but I'm fairly certain this is what they have in mind.
Pomona-Pitzer played 10 opponents in region, Linfield played 13.
Their in-region W/L%s (in the order that they first played them) are
PP:  0.8064516 0.5483871 0.0000000 0.6333333 0.6333333 0.6875000 0.2413793 0.5666667 0.4827586 0.4333333
Linfield: 0.5500000 0.3636364 0.2424242 0.6363636 0.2142857 0.7826087 0.4090909 0.1785714 0.7931034 0.2857143 0.7000000 0.5517241 0.5666667
(apologies for the excessive significant digits)
If we do what they suggest and average these for each opponent, we get this back for in-region OWP:
PP: 0.5033143, Linfield: 0.4826300
And this is what it says to do.  "...each opponent's..."
You'll notice these are different from what is given on NCAA.com.  So what went wrong?
What they really mean is: For each game, take the opponent's regular won-lost percentage against other Division III teams and average these winning percentages.
So each winning percentage is weighted by the number of times you played that team.
If you do that, you get back the numbers they have posted for the site. But under a standard definition of "opponent", this is not what the handbook says to do. 
Perhaps this explains the discrepancy between the NCAA and Presto.  The NCAA can't write guidelines that are even remotely well defined. But in trying to figure out how Linfield got a 5 seed, we've all probably come to this realization already. 
I would say that what they are actually doing is the more sensible thing to do, but a) it's not what is in the handbook, and b) its a stupid way to measure strength of schedule.  Who cares that Linfield lost to some really good teams.  They mostly beat awful teams, and gave no indication that they can play with good teams (except beating a PLU team mid-nose dive to not lose that season series as well). 

 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on May 12, 2012, 09:59:32 PM
What I don't understand is why the regional committee does not use the same criteria when ranking teams that the NCAA uses as "Selection Criteria" for Pool C...at least that's what wildcat11 tells me via twitter...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 12, 2012, 10:06:23 PM
Since I have this data loaded in my R workspace already, here's what I mean about the misleading strength of schedule numbers that you get back from OWP and OOWP. 
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv697%2Ffreemumia%2FRplot.jpg&hash=8b1c9736b7e4fe46a2cf867b7bf4e73346a7bc26)
Boxplots! The range of the data is broken up into 4 sections, each comprising 25 percent of the data. 
On the left, you have in region winning percentages for each game played.  On the right, you have the winning percentages of the teams PP and Linfield actually beat. 
You can observe the very minor advantage of in-region OWP for Linfield on the left.
On the right, you can see what you shouldn't care. At least half of Linfield's wins are worse than the worst 25 percent of P-P's wins.  Linfield's best 25 percent of wins aren't any better than P-P's. 
Case closed.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on May 13, 2012, 08:37:24 AM
+1 for all the work.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 13, 2012, 11:59:47 AM
One final comment.  There's been a lot of discussion about how SoS in the West can't be compared to teams in other regions (New England as a good example). 
I'll argue that it can't be compared within the West in relation to SCIAC teams vs non-SCIAC teams. 
The NCAA handbook talks about the average opponent's winning percentage.  "Average" is not well defined, but is usually taken to mean the arithmetic mean or the median.  The NCAA, by their example in appendix C, mean it to be the arithmetic mean (they should really make this explicit).  But why? 
The mean is well known to be a non-robust measure of center.  Extreme observations exert undue influence on the mean.  The extreme observation I have in mind is Cal Tech in the SCIAC, with a typical annual winning percentage of 0. 
The median on the other hand is robust (this also favors Linfield, barely).  But this doesn't account for how good most of the teams you play are.  It's the mean of the middle one or two observations (depending on the whether you play an odd or even number of games).  There is an in-between, called trimmed means, which take the mean of the middle k observations, where k can vary between all of the games (the mean)  and nearly none-of-them (the median).  Let's see what happens when we compare in-region OWP for Linfield (purple) and P-P (orange) under different (but legitimate) definitions of the ill defined term "average".  (In region OWP plotted against the proportion of points removed from each side before taking the mean.)
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv697%2Ffreemumia%2Ftrimmed.jpg&hash=cf177d10eb87e8cde3c76ef1b3644a32cd1add18)
You can clearly see the "Cal Tech effect" on (in-region) OWP.  I'm convinced that P-P played a stronger schedule than Linfield.  This was the only criterion that Linfield had over P-P in the primary category.  It's not real.



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 13, 2012, 06:25:33 PM
Ken Massey's rating system puts P-P at 7th in the nation. Linfield at 39.
http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbase&yr=2012&sub=11620
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 13, 2012, 06:35:16 PM
I'll also add that if you put Lewis & Clark (4-20 in NWC) in the SCIAC instead of Cal Tech (0-28 in SCIAC) we have the following OWPs.
Linfield: .500 as stated on NCAA.com as I haven't altered their schedule.
Pomona-Pitzer: .511
So now Pomona-Pitzer's OWP is as much higher over Linfield's than Linfield's was over P-P in the original data.
Is it a stretch to think that Pomona-Pitzer would have taken 4 games from L&C as they did over Cal Tech?
If not, that's what .010 means in strength of schedule. 
Despite Linfield having worse numbers in all other categories, they rank Linfield higher in the regional rankings because they beat Lewis & Clark instead of Cal Tech.  Bad form.
The NCAA should require someone with at least mild quantitative training to be on these regional ranking committees. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: JohnnyU on May 13, 2012, 06:43:54 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 13, 2012, 06:35:16 PM
I'll also add that if you put Lewis & Clark (4-20 in NWC) in the SCIAC instead of Cal Tech (0-28 in SCIAC) we have the following OWPs.
Linfield: .500 as stated on NCAA.com as I haven't altered their schedule.
Pomona-Pitzer: .511
So now Pomona-Pitzer's OWP is as much higher over Linfield's than Linfield's was over P-P in the original data.
Is it a stretch to think that Pomona-Pitzer would have taken 4 games from L&C as they did over Cal Tech?
If not, that's what .010 means in strength of schedule. 
Despite Linfield having worse numbers in all other categories, they rank Linfield higher in the regional rankings because they beat Lewis & Clark instead of Cal Tech.  Bad form.
The NCAA should require someone with at least mild quantitative training to be on these regional ranking committees.


Agreed 100%. This is the biggest problem with the NCAA's current process nationally, and it affects the West the most because of the "Cal tech" problem you describe.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 13, 2012, 08:01:58 PM
For me the most valid criterion for P-P vs. Linfield was the record versus common opponents:

P-P 10-4
Linfield 7-5
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Piobark on May 14, 2012, 12:30:21 AM
Before you make the assumption that Lewis and Clark = Cal Tech, perhaps you might want to look at games played when LC had Michael Ball on the hill.

Pitching against:

Linfield - lost in the ninth 7-6 on an unearned run
George Fox - Win
Pacific - lost 2-0
Willamette - win
Whitman - win
Whitworth - lost 6-2
Puget Sound - No Decision - left with game tied after 8
PLU - lost 9-8

Was he a super star? No - but he kept his team in games, pitching 7 complete games in league and the 8th game he went 8 innings- on a team very short in pitching.

Lewis and Clark ended up 7-33. Cal Tech was 0-33.

Massey has LC at 278, Cal Tech at 357th

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 14, 2012, 01:32:22 AM
Quote from: Piobark on May 14, 2012, 12:30:21 AM
Before you make the assumption that Lewis and Clark = Cal Tech, perhaps you might want to look at games played when LC had Michael Ball on the hill.

Pitching against:

Linfield - lost in the ninth 7-6 on an unearned run
George Fox - Win
Pacific - lost 2-0
Willamette - win
Whitman - win
Whitworth - lost 6-2
Puget Sound - No Decision - left with game tied after 8
PLU - lost 9-8

Was he a super star? No - but he kept his team in games, pitching 7 complete games in league and the 8th game he went 8 innings- on a team very short in pitching.

Lewis and Clark ended up 7-33. Cal Tech was 0-33.

Massey has LC at 278, Cal Tech at 357th
Thanks for the info.  I'm not trying to make the comparison that Lewis & Clark is as bad as Cal Tech.  I don't believe that to be true.  And they certainly seem to be a competitive team when Ball is pitching. 

My point was that if you replace two wins over Cal Tech with two wins over Lewis & Clark, you make up the difference in OWP (.010). 
Pomona-Pitzer was better than Linfield in all the other relevant primary criteria:
1. W/L% in region.
4. In-region results vs common regional opponents (by a lot).
5. In-region results vs regionally ranked teams (using win%).

2. is strength of schedule.
3. is head-to-head and these teams did not play each other.
Thus, the committee decided that beating Lewis & Clark was so much more meaningful than beating Cal Tech as to outweigh all the other primary criteria. (Even if Ball were to beat Pomona-Pitzer, the two teams would be tied with respect to criterion 1 and OWP and leading still in the other 2!)
To me there are two ways this ranking decision can be reached. Either the members of the regional ranking committee are quantitatively illiterate as to not understand what a difference in OWP of .010 represents, or they are corrupt.  Everyone can decide for themselves which they believe to be the case. Either way, I would suggest that they be removed from such responsibility in the future.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 14, 2012, 09:21:16 AM
Thank goodness the NCAA did not put in Linfield. BigPoppa was right, Coe and St. John's get shipped in.

Will have to check those teams out for the likely Concordia and Trinity match ups for first round games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 14, 2012, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 14, 2012, 09:21:16 AM
Thank goodness the NCAA did not put in Linfield. BigPoppa was right, Coe and St. John's get shipped in.
Agreed.  I have to admit that I am clueless as to how regional strength is compared across regions with so little inter-region play occurring.  I understand how Massey does it, and his ratings included quite a few west coast schools near the top (with Pomona-Pitzer ranked 7th in the nation).  He uses the little inter-region data that's available (they beat Rutgers-Newark and Kean and only lost to Ithaca). 
Hopefully the NCAA took note of what happened in the West, and they'll look to implement some changes in the way regional rankings are done.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 14, 2012, 09:38:25 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 14, 2012, 09:21:16 AM
Thank goodness the NCAA did not put in Linfield. BigPoppa was right, Coe and St. John's get shipped in.
Will have to check those teams out for the likely Concordia and Trinity match ups for first round games.
I may, or may not, have a guy on the inside.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2012, 09:53:13 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 14, 2012, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 14, 2012, 09:21:16 AM
Thank goodness the NCAA did not put in Linfield. BigPoppa was right, Coe and St. John's get shipped in.
Agreed.  I have to admit that I am clueless as to how regional strength is compared across regions with so little inter-region play occurring.  I understand how Massey does it, and his ratings included quite a few west coast schools near the top (with Pomona-Pitzer ranked 7th in the nation).  He uses the little inter-region data that's available (they beat Rutgers-Newark and Kean and only lost to Ithaca). 
Hopefully the NCAA took note of what happened in the West, and they'll look to implement some changes in the way regional rankings are done.
Coe and St John's are both Pool A bids and probably ranked 5/6 range in their respective regions.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 14, 2012, 10:05:49 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2012, 09:53:13 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 14, 2012, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 14, 2012, 09:21:16 AM
Thank goodness the NCAA did not put in Linfield. BigPoppa was right, Coe and St. John's get shipped in.
Agreed.  I have to admit that I am clueless as to how regional strength is compared across regions with so little inter-region play occurring.  I understand how Massey does it, and his ratings included quite a few west coast schools near the top (with Pomona-Pitzer ranked 7th in the nation).  He uses the little inter-region data that's available (they beat Rutgers-Newark and Kean and only lost to Ithaca). 
Hopefully the NCAA took note of what happened in the West, and they'll look to implement some changes in the way regional rankings are done.
Coe and St John's are both Pool A bids and probably ranked 5/6 range in their respective regions.
Right, but putting them in the West still involved a comparison of the Pool C teams across regions. 
I've seen lots of people claim the West is down this year, but the only argument is that there are few teams with 30+ wins.  But of course, most games are played in-region.
For instance, a very good Kean team had a W/L% of .784 when not playing west coast schools, and only .667 on their trip out west.  There's lots of reasons for this, the travel being the most obvious, but it's also evidence that the West wasn't as bad as people thought this year. (At the same time, a not-so-good Rutgers-Newark team was 4-1 against the West...) 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 14, 2012, 10:22:44 AM
The West Regional's came out the right way. The process worked but the Regional Rankings process is broke. SOS is broken also in the West. Hopefully the NCAA looks at adjusting the current process.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 14, 2012, 11:08:04 AM
Love this from twitter this morning:

@d3baseball Neither got in, actually. RT @OsportsExaminer: @d3baseball explain Linfield getting in over co-champ Pacific. Pac also beat Lin 2 out of 3.

Not sure what @OsportsExaminer was reading ...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 14, 2012, 11:30:42 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 14, 2012, 11:08:04 AM
Love this from twitter this morning:

@d3baseball Neither got in, actually. RT @OsportsExaminer: @d3baseball explain Linfield getting in over co-champ Pacific. Pac also beat Lin 2 out of 3.

Not sure what @OsportsExaminer was reading ...
d3's mock regionals. I'm wondering what d3baseball is thinking as well.  It adds legitimacy to the whole fiasco.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 14, 2012, 11:35:12 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 14, 2012, 11:30:42 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 14, 2012, 11:08:04 AM
Love this from twitter this morning:

@d3baseball Neither got in, actually. RT @OsportsExaminer: @d3baseball explain Linfield getting in over co-champ Pacific. Pac also beat Lin 2 out of 3.

Not sure what @OsportsExaminer was reading ...
d3's mock regionals. I'm wondering what d3baseball is thinking as well.  It adds legitimacy to the whole fiasco.

None of it really matters anymore, does it?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 14, 2012, 11:42:11 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 14, 2012, 11:35:12 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 14, 2012, 11:30:42 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 14, 2012, 11:08:04 AM
Love this from twitter this morning:

@d3baseball Neither got in, actually. RT @OsportsExaminer: @d3baseball explain Linfield getting in over co-champ Pacific. Pac also beat Lin 2 out of 3.

Not sure what @OsportsExaminer was reading ...
d3's mock regionals. I'm wondering what d3baseball is thinking as well.  It adds legitimacy to the whole fiasco.

None of it really matters anymore, does it?
Well, it seems the problem is not an isolated one, rather it's systemic.  This needs to be fixed.  There's always next year...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2012, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 14, 2012, 11:42:11 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 14, 2012, 11:35:12 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 14, 2012, 11:30:42 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 14, 2012, 11:08:04 AM
Love this from twitter this morning:

@d3baseball Neither got in, actually. RT @OsportsExaminer: @d3baseball explain Linfield getting in over co-champ Pacific. Pac also beat Lin 2 out of 3.

Not sure what @OsportsExaminer was reading ...
d3's mock regionals. I'm wondering what d3baseball is thinking as well.  It adds legitimacy to the whole fiasco.

None of it really matters anymore, does it?
Well, it seems the problem is not an isolated one, rather it's systemic.  This needs to be fixed.  There's always next year...
Richard, thank you for the contributions during the short time that you have been on the message boards.

The competition committee of the NCAA addresses such problems across all the sports in D-III.

The primary focus is D-III is Regionally Based Competition, so as not to strain the requirements of classtime and school budgets.  (Attending class and not spending 2 arms and a leg on travel budgets is the driving force.)  How to handle a regional focus and a national tournament has been one of the ongoing questions in the decade that I have participated on the message boards.

I am personally happy with the West Region only getting one Pool C bid.  We have seen stronger competition in the West Region in the previous years.  We have parity, but the parity brought teams closer to the pack and dropped just below the magic #16.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 15, 2012, 06:56:34 AM
I'm still mind boggled at how we are sugar coating a weak region this year with "parity". Did parity cause chapmans fielding percentage to drop 20 points this year? Did parity cause Tyler to have their worst pitching staff in recent history? Ask Texasbb if this years 30+ win Tyler team was near as strong as past. Point me to another year in the asc when two of the final three teams
Finished below .500 on the year.

I'm not trying to take away from the teams, but I'm going to call a spade a spade. We consistently have had deserving west region teams get snubbed from pool c. This year we were complaining about how the bubble teams shouldn't make it! I am not putting down any of these teams, but I'm also not going to call it something different than it is.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2012, 07:41:16 AM
This difference in McMurry's schedule this year is the number of games played against non-D3 teams.

McMurry went 0-3 against D-2 Tarleton St., 1-2 against NAIA Friends and 0-3 versus Centenary which still may have  D-1 scholarship athletes on its roster.

Against pure D-III foes, McMurry is 22-16.  I agree that this year's McMurry team is not as good as the 2008 squad that went to the Regionals. I am waiting to see how the regional plays out in McMinnville with Coe and St John's in the mix.

I project CTX to win the Regional. Let's see what happens from here.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 15, 2012, 09:21:29 AM
Granted this is based on what I saw early season, but IMO overall the Trinity team is better than the CTX team even without Lucero. Whether they can overcome all of their injuries remains to be seen. Even without Lucero they are very talented pitching wise, and as Ralph pointed out they beat a very good Centenary team 2 of 3 with none of their weekend starters. On the other hand they lost 5 games to teams they had no business losing to.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 15, 2012, 10:35:46 AM
Ralph:

There were probably only a couple of teams in the ASC this year that would say they were better this year than they were in 2008.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on May 15, 2012, 12:45:34 PM
Without Lucero I just don't see Trinity winning this thing. Depth on the mound will be a huge factor in this tourney in my opinion. Stranger things can happen, it could be a wild card winner as well.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 15, 2012, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 15, 2012, 09:21:29 AM
Granted this is based on what I saw early season, but IMO overall the Trinity team is better than the CTX team even without Lucero. Whether they can overcome all of their injuries remains to be seen. Even without Lucero they are very talented pitching wise, and as Ralph pointed out they beat a very good Centenary team 2 of 3 with none of their weekend starters. On the other hand they lost 5 games to teams they had no business losing to.
Very difficult winning a regional when you lose one of your top pitchers due to injuries

BUT it can be done.

Chapman in 2009 lost their #1 Kitchens before the Regional and still won the regional without him.

In 2012 Chapman lost their #1 Rauh in game one of the NCAA Championship round but still made it to the Champship game vs Marrietta.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 15, 2012, 01:17:59 PM
Pitching will not be TU's problem IMO, they have plenty of arms. I think people will be surprised how many hard throwers they have. Fink is back and they have two other front end starters (besides Klimesh, plus a whole bunch of relief guys) They gave up 8 hits to BSC and 5 came from two guys, they will win/lose based on errors (or lack of) and the ability to manufacture runs. I know CTX has plenty of arms also, but I wonder if they will be able to muster enough offense to get it done. I also agree that CTX has the advantage of playing on a turf field. It should be a fun regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2012, 03:02:49 PM
Quote from: dp643 on May 15, 2012, 10:35:46 AM
Ralph:

There were probably only a couple of teams in the ASC this year that would say they were better this year than they were in 2008.
Thanks for the comment. :)

One other thing...
The new bats have made this an entirely different game. Where did all of the homers go?

I think that we need to drill down into the stats on unearned runs and Fielding percentage.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on May 15, 2012, 03:09:58 PM
That is precisely why I dont use offensive statistics for comparison purposes. I used Tyler's pitching, Chapman's fielding, etc as examples. The days of Derek David hitting 26 homeruns are likely behind us. But there are plenty of other areas we could compare to gauge the quality of baseball around the region.

Lets move on to some regional tournament predictions!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2012, 03:57:12 PM
I posted mine on another board.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2012, 08:34:33 PM
My regional predictions:

Millington, TN: #1 Birmingham-Southern

Lakewood, NJ: #2 Kean

Marietta, OH: #1 Marietta

Whitewater, WI: #2 La Crosse

Mansfield, CT: #1 Wheaton

Farmingdale, NY: #1 Cortland Sate

McMinnville, OR:#1 Concordia-Austin

Newport News, VA: #1 CNU
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on June 05, 2012, 03:55:39 PM
Who return as top teams in 2013?

NWC - Whitworth, Pacific, Pac Lu....Will George Fox and Linfield return to the top of the NWC  ???
ASC - Concordia, TX, Texas-Tyler, Texas-Tyler, Hardin Simmons
SCIAC - La Verne, Pomona-Pitzer, Cal Lu..Will Redlands and Chapman bounce back in 2013  :o
SCAC - Trinity
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 06, 2013, 07:11:47 PM
2013 Predictions

SCAC - Trinity-Texas 
NWC - Whitworth
ASC - Concordia-Texas
SCIAC - Pomona-Pitzer

Others in the mix
La Verne, Chapman, Texas-Tyler, Linfield,
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 06, 2013, 10:31:04 PM
I was looking at the McMinnville rosters and Concordia had 14 Sr's on it. They showed the full 35 man roster so I am not sure how many were contributors, but losing 14 Sr's is a lot. I think Tyler will be back stronger this year.

This is Centenary's first year of eligibility in SCAC and I expect them to be tough, if their pitching has developed past their number 1, they could be a contender.

Trinity should be very good this year, but I am concerned about their SOS. Not playing Millsaps, Hendrix, BSC and some tougher teams could hurt them come playoffs. It might be good for them to start going to the Az tournament to face some tougher teams until some of the other SCAC teams develop.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 07, 2013, 12:18:57 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on January 06, 2013, 10:31:04 PM
I was looking at the McMinnville rosters and Concordia had 14 Sr's on it. They showed the full 35 man roster so I am not sure how many were contributors, but losing 14 Sr's is a lot. I think Tyler will be back stronger this year.

This is Centenary's first year of eligibility in SCAC and I expect them to be tough, if their pitching has developed past their number 1, they could be a contender.

Trinity should be very good this year, but I am concerned about their SOS. Not playing Millsaps, Hendrix, BSC and some tougher teams could hurt them come playoffs. It might be good for them to start going to the Az tournament to face some tougher teams until some of the other SCAC teams develop.
SOS will only hurt if they dont win SCAC/Pool A bid.

Linfield and CTX have outstanding coaching staffs and will reload as I expect Chapman will also. I expect all 3 teams to have a few new faces that will perform at a high level.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 07, 2013, 12:54:04 AM
Agree, on how top programs stay on top.

I was thinking about the level of competition and sometimes teams get lazy or don't perform at their best levels if they are not used to playing high level teams. Hard fought close games make a team better IMO.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on January 07, 2013, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on January 06, 2013, 07:11:47 PM
2013 Predictions

SCAC - Trinity-Texas 
NWC - Whitworth
ASC - Concordia-Texas
SCIAC - Pomona-Pitzer

Others in the mix
La Verne, Chapman, Texas-Tyler, Linfield,

I think you have to add Pacific, PLU, and Fox in the mix out in the Northwest Conference.  The NWC is going to be a brawl the whole spring but the Rats rightfully get the nod as the team to beat.  I do think Linfield could have a monster season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on January 07, 2013, 06:39:42 PM
It is my understanding that the SCAC has reduced the number of games (max schedule of 36 games) that teams can play by 10%. This will likely make it increasingly difficult to schedule games which will have a positive impact on SOS.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on January 07, 2013, 07:23:30 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on January 07, 2013, 06:39:42 PM
It is my understanding that the SCAC has reduced the number of games (max schedule of 36 games) that teams can play by 10%. This will likely make it increasingly difficult to schedule games which will have a positive impact on SOS.
Wow, why would you do that? Every inning is precious at D3.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 07, 2013, 09:56:53 PM
Centenary is Year-3 Provisional status and is eligible for NCAA post-season in 2014-15.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on January 07, 2013, 10:23:11 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on January 07, 2013, 07:23:30 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on January 07, 2013, 06:39:42 PM
It is my understanding that the SCAC has reduced the number of games (max schedule of 36 games) that teams can play by 10%. This will likely make it increasingly difficult to schedule games which will have a positive impact on SOS.
Wow, why would you do that? Every inning is precious at D3.

SCAC has a conference tournament, so teams that make the tourney would end up playing at least 38 to 40 games given double elim format.  Chapman only has 35 games on their schedule, but SCIAC has a conf. tourney as well.  Northwest Conference has no tourney, most/if not all teams schedule a 40 game season.

I can understand academic considerations/time constraints would be the concern for this limit, but, considering that teams in the West region start playing games early Feb, there is more time to spread the schedule out compared to conferences in midwest and northeast. Pretty sure NESCAC plays a shorter (34-36 games) season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 08, 2013, 12:44:07 AM
Actually Chapman has 39 games scheduled....The last 4 SCAIC games are SCIAC pool play based upon where you are in the standings at that time. 1V9 1V8 1V7 1V6  etc... These last 4 are the SCIAC POOL PLAY games and are not part of the the SCIAC tournament.

After the last 4 SCIAC Pool play games then the SCIAC conference tourney has the top 4 teams play in a double elimination tournament for the Pool A bid for SCIAC.

See the SCIAC schedule
http://www.thesciac.org/sports/bsb/2012-13/schedule
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on January 08, 2013, 12:52:17 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on January 08, 2013, 12:44:07 AM
Actually Chapman has 39 games scheduled....The last 4 SCAIC games are SCIAC pool play based upon where you are in the standings at that time. 1V9 1V8 1V7 1V6  etc... These last 4 are the SCIAC POOL PLAY games and are not part of the the SCIAC tournament.

After the last 4 SCIAC Pool play games then the SCIAC conference tourney has the top 4 teams play in a double elimination tournament for the Pool A bid for SCIAC.

See the SCIAC schedule
http://www.thesciac.org/sports/bsb/2012-13/schedule

Thanks for the correction!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 08, 2013, 12:19:01 PM
I looked at Trinity's schedule and they have 36 games scheduled prior to their conf tournament. Last year they played 40. They have a 10 day break in their schedule after the Chapman series and then get into the normal rhythm of weekend-midweek games. They will likely use the Chapman games as a preseason-find-your-weaknesses, then go work on them for 10 days and get ready to play. Their schedule looks easier than last year and the only thing I think that will hurt them is playing lesser competition. This is just my conjecture as these other programs will be gunning for them and are making inroads on recruiting and hiring quality coaches, etc. I expect that the SCAC will continue to develop into a high quality conference, they are just in a transition phase right now. I would really like to see them throw in a home/away with Millsaps, and/or BSC to keep up those rivalries and quality games as well as getting out of their region a bit.

It is great to be talking baseball!!!!!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on January 08, 2013, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on January 08, 2013, 12:19:01 PM
I looked at Trinity's schedule and they have 36 games scheduled prior to their conf tournament. Last year they played 40. They have a 10 day break in their schedule after the Chapman series and then get into the normal rhythm of weekend-midweek games. They will likely use the Chapman games as a preseason-find-your-weaknesses, then go work on them for 10 days and get ready to play. Their schedule looks easier than last year and the only thing I think that will hurt them is playing lesser competition. This is just my conjecture as these other programs will be gunning for them and are making inroads on recruiting and hiring quality coaches, etc. I expect that the SCAC will continue to develop into a high quality conference, they are just in a transition phase right now. I would really like to see them throw in a home/away with Millsaps, and/or BSC to keep up those rivalries and quality games as well as getting out of their region a bit.

It is great to be talking baseball!!!!!

Ahh, too bad!!!  That break is right during the big 3-day D3 weekend of ball games in Anthem AZ with all the Texas, SCIAC and NWC teams.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 09, 2013, 12:43:19 PM
I understand that it is NOT true that the SCAC has reduced their teams schedules to 36 games.

I suspect that TU and other teams will fill in their schedules to be at the NCAA 40 game regular season limit by the start of the season. I also expect that some new rivalries will develop within the conference over time as teams start to play each other more often. I am curious to see how fast Coach Thomas can get Southwestern headed in the right direction as well as watching the continued development at Dallas. I did not realize that Centenary had one more provisional season, but once they are in and TLU comes in there is a strong core of teams to make a very competitive conference.





Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 09, 2013, 03:27:42 PM
Preseason TOP 10 in the WEST....

Whitworth
Pomona-Pitzer
Trinity-Texas
Concordia-Texas...

Who would you put in a top 10 in the West. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
http://www.d3baseball.com/teams/region/west
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on January 09, 2013, 03:57:30 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on January 09, 2013, 03:27:42 PM
Preseason TOP 10 in the WEST....

Did you mean to include a link? If you did I would be interested.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: augie77 on January 09, 2013, 04:01:30 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 22, 2012, 12:20:46 PM
I certainly don't want to complain, as it is nice to get a video feed....of any kind. The announcer was really good and it was clear he knew the game better than most TV network broadcasters. Seriously, I enjoyed listening to him, even when he took the volume down when he messed up the order and we heard a little shxx as the sound was going down, he recovered very nicely. Well done. If you see him tell him there were number or us who enjoyed him. A little polishing and there might be a future for him in New York!!!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 09, 2013, 07:16:17 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on January 09, 2013, 03:27:42 PM
Preseason TOP 10 in the WEST....

Whitworth
Pomona-Pitzer
Trinity-Texas
Concordia-Texas...

Who would you put in a top 10 in the West. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
http://www.d3baseball.com/teams/region/west

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on January 09, 2013, 09:19:19 PM
From the Northwest Conference, besides the obvious selection Whitworth, I would propose Pacific as a PRE-SEASON selection, given they earned a share of the conference title in 2012.  I think they have more impact players overall returning versus Pac Lu.  Pac Lu has Beatty returning from cancer as one of the top P's in the conference, but they are losing a lot of offense to graduation, particularly Gates, plus an outstanding shortstop, S. Davis.  Personally, though, I think Linfield will bounce back in a big way, but given last season, they don't deserve a PRE-season top 10 ranking.  But, I think at the end of the season, they will be there.

I will predict a rarity - I say 2 teams from the NWC will make the regional this year.  There, I threw down my bet!  Whitworth and Linfield in the regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 12, 2013, 11:47:16 AM
More 2013 Pre-Season Picks

West Regional Teams

2 from NWC
1 from ASC
1 from SCAC
2 from SCIAC

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BBFan62 on January 12, 2013, 03:24:34 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on January 12, 2013, 11:47:16 AM
More 2013 Pre-Season Picks

West Regional Teams

2 from NWC
1 from ASC
1 from SCAC
2 from SCIAC

I predict that at least one of the predictions will be the closet to being accurate! ;D

We don't open practice until Jan. 29 and our first game is March 1. We open up full play March 10 in Florida. Weather permitting, we will have but 3 games under our belt when we enter the UAA tournament; all the other teams will have at least 12. The stadium (Sanford Memorial) is the old NY Giants spring training facility, which is a nice park to play in. Good luck to all of your teams; I usually follow quite a few conferences. Enjoy!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on January 13, 2013, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on January 08, 2013, 12:19:01 PM
I looked at Trinity's schedule and they have 36 games scheduled prior to their conf tournament. Last year they played 40. They have a 10 day break in their schedule after the Chapman series and then get into the normal rhythm of weekend-midweek games. They will likely use the Chapman games as a preseason-find-your-weaknesses, then go work on them for 10 days and get ready to play. Their schedule looks easier than last year and the only thing I think that will hurt them is playing lesser competition. This is just my conjecture as these other programs will be gunning for them and are making inroads on recruiting and hiring quality coaches, etc. I expect that the SCAC will continue to develop into a high quality conference, they are just in a transition phase right now. I would really like to see them throw in a home/away with Millsaps, and/or BSC to keep up those rivalries and quality games as well as getting out of their region a bit.

It is great to be talking baseball!!!!!

Trinity now has 40 games scheduled.  While not playing Millsaps or BSC could impact the SOS, I would be paying attention to Southwestern as being a very solid opponent and not what they have been recently, While Coach Thomas might not do it in year one, he just might make a major difference and the Trinity/Southwestern series can  end up having conference and post-season considerations, as they did up to 2004.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 13, 2013, 10:34:05 PM
I also liked what I saw in UofDallas. They have a solid coach and the makings of a very competitive program. Will be interesting to see if they can build on the past two years.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 13, 2013, 10:59:40 PM
Chapman has been one of the dominant top teams in the West for many years. They had a disappointing 20-20 season in 2012 to miss the playoffs for only the 2nd time since 1996. They had 11 1 run losses in 2012 and 3 2 run losses. To return back to the playoffs in 2013 many new players will need to step up to return Chapman to the West Regionals.  Good defense and timely hitting will be the key for them in 2013.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 13, 2013, 11:26:58 PM
I think we will get a very good idea on where Chapman is from the "git go" with the Trinity series. Trinity only lost two position players and has seasoned replacements already groomed for those two spots. They have 4 solid returning starting pitchers, plus what I have been told two very promising freshmen, all fighting for the top three starting slots, plus a full bull pen. I also hear they have a couple of other position playing freshmen who will be in the mix so they should come in with a very competitive team that last year was one game shy of getting to Appleton. Loosing a pitcher like Klimesh is a big deal, but if Lucero is healthy he should step right into the number 1 slot.  Chapman should figure out where they are real quick.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 14, 2013, 01:12:23 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on January 13, 2013, 11:26:58 PM
I think we will get a very good idea on where Chapman is from the "git go" with the Trinity series. Trinity only lost two position players and has seasoned replacements already groomed for those two spots. They have 4 solid returning starting pitchers, plus what I have been told two very promising freshmen, all fighting for the top three starting slots, plus a full bull pen. I also hear they have a couple of other position playing freshmen who will be in the mix so they should come in with a very competitive team that last year was one game shy of getting to Appleton. Loosing a pitcher like Klimesh is a big deal, but if Lucero is healthy he should step right into the number 1 slot.  Chapman should figure out where they are real quick.
Chapman lost their #1 pitcher in Rauh and I am not sure who will be pitching for 2013. I am not sure the Trinity series will be a real indication of the season for Chapman. I think the Trinity series could be a very difficult series for Chapman to start out the season with so many new players and pitchers.

I do think they will play to well enough to get into the SCIAC tournament by finishing in the TOP 4 in the SCIAC.

By that time of the season Chapman should be playing well enough to have a shot at making the regionals. They may be a year away with a very young team in 2013.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 14, 2013, 11:15:25 AM
Your probably right in that good coaches know how to develop a young team as the season wears on. I would expect nothing else than them making the SCIAC tournament.

It will be a good barometer for him in figuring out who can compete for key positions. Being in a talent rich location as well as a premier school helps in bringing freshmen who can compete right off the bat, so we will see.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 26, 2013, 09:59:30 PM
http://www.d3baseball.com/top25/2013/2013week-1

Top Teams in the West in the polls
Trinity
Linfield
Pomona-Pitzer
Concordia TX
Cal Lutheran
Texas-Tyler
Whittier
La Verne
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on February 26, 2013, 10:36:33 PM
Whittier?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 26, 2013, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on February 26, 2013, 10:36:33 PM
Whittier?

Yep right over there by Hacienda Heights, and Pico Rivera. One of my old hangouts Northwoods Inn is up the road.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 26, 2013, 11:01:58 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on February 26, 2013, 10:36:33 PM
Whittier?

Seriously...Whittier?

They are 7-5 and 5 of their wins are against 1-10 Cal Tech (3 wins) and 2-8 Claremont (2 wins).  They did beat George Fox who started off very hot, but it was also the 4th game of the weekend for both....of course GF played CLU and Whittier played Cal Tech.  I don't think this will last long.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on February 27, 2013, 04:33:21 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on February 26, 2013, 09:59:30 PM
http://www.d3baseball.com/top25/2013/2013week-1

Top Teams in the West in the polls
Trinity
Linfield
Pomona-Pitzer
Concordia TX
Cal Lutheran
Texas-Tyler
Whittier
La Verne

Whitworth is currently ranked 15th at 4-3-1
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 27, 2013, 07:51:17 PM
 Correction :o
http://www.d3baseball.com/top25/2013/2013week-1

Top Teams in the West in the polls
Trinity
Whitworth
Linfield
Pomona-Pitzer
Concordia TX
Cal Lutheran
Texas-Tyler
Whittier
La Verne


Whitworth is currently ranked 15th at 4-3-1
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 03, 2013, 01:23:26 AM
Top Teams in the West

1) NWC Linfield 9-1
2) SCAC - Trinity 11-2
3) ASC - LaTourneau 9-2
4) ASC - Texas Tyler 10-3
5) NWC - Pacific Lutheran 9-3
6) SCIAC - Cal Lutheran 7-4-1

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 03, 2013, 11:15:24 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 03, 2013, 01:23:26 AM
Top Teams in the West

1) NWC Linfield 9-1
2) SCAC - Trinity 11-2
3) ASC - LaTourneau 9-2
4) ASC - Texas Tyler 10-3
5) NWC - Pacific Lutheran 9-3
6) SCIAC - Cal Lutheran 7-4-1

I would add:

7) SCIAC - Pomona  10-3 (2 of 3 losses to CLU)

* Centenary - 9-3

* Not eligible but still a very good team  ;)

Crash - what are you doing up at 4:30AM?....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on March 03, 2013, 03:02:48 PM
UT Tyler goes 4-0 in Clements Fluids Classic including two wins over Whitworth 5-4 and 12-2.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 03, 2013, 06:50:22 PM
Linfield looks like they are back in a big way, Whitworth looks like they are fading and should drop out of the top 25 this week. UT-Tyler looks strong as Patriotfan just posted.

Trinity took care of business as they should have and go into probably the toughest stretch of their season with two mid week games vs Cardinal Stretch and DeSales this week then an away series at Centenary, then right back at a Tuesday game vs TLU. Should be a good stretch to stretch out the pitching staff. Just to show how deep this team is the number 6 outfielder went 3-3 with a single, a triple, a HR 4 RBI's plus a stolen base.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 04, 2013, 09:37:59 AM
CTX lost three this weekend to a previously 4-8 UT-Dallas squad, what in the world is going on in Austin?

Glad to see Trinity do what they should have done against 1-15 Southwestern.  So it's Austin AND Georgetown where strange things are going on. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 04, 2013, 06:17:25 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 04, 2013, 09:37:59 AM
CTX lost three this weekend to a previously 4-8 UT-Dallas squad, what in the world is going on in Austin?

Glad to see Trinity do what they should have done against 1-15 Southwestern.  So it's Austin AND Georgetown where strange things are going on. 

Austin is not the only place

2011 CTX 31-17 Semifinals Western Regional                       
2011 Chapman 37-13 Finals NCAA DIII Championship Game   

2013 CTX(7-10) 10th in overall record in ASC
2013 Chapman(6-8) 7th in overall record in SCIAC

Still enough time for both teams to turn things around but better start soon.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 04, 2013, 06:58:51 PM
I have not seen CTX play this year yet, but Chapman does not seem like a Regional team to me. (at this point in time). 

Linfield, George Fox, UT-Tyler, TLU, P-P, CLU and Trinity are starting to separate themselves from the pack.  (I am ignoring Oxy  :-X)

Question is LaTourneau a West team?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on March 04, 2013, 07:18:09 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 04, 2013, 06:58:51 PM
I have not seen CTX play this year yet, but Chapman does not seem like a Regional team to me. (at this point in time). 

Linfield, George Fox, UT-Tyler, TLU, P-P, CLU and Trinity are starting to separate themselves from the pack.  (I am ignoring Oxy  :-X)

Question is LaTourneau a West team?
All ASC teams, including LeTourneau, are in the West Region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2013, 07:36:33 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on March 04, 2013, 07:18:09 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 04, 2013, 06:58:51 PM
I have not seen CTX play this year yet, but Chapman does not seem like a Regional team to me. (at this point in time). 

Linfield, George Fox, UT-Tyler, TLU, P-P, CLU and Trinity are starting to separate themselves from the pack.  (I am ignoring Oxy  :-X)

Question is LaTourneau a West team?
All ASC teams, including LeTourneau, are in the West Region.
LeTourneau still has much to prove, IMHO.  I think that an upper echelon ASC-East team wins all of those games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 04, 2013, 08:52:08 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 04, 2013, 06:58:51 PM
I have not seen CTX play this year yet, but Chapman does not seem like a Regional team to me. (at this point in time). 

Linfield, George Fox, UT-Tyler, TLU, P-P, CLU and Trinity are starting to separate themselves from the pack.  (I am ignoring Oxy  :-X)

Question is LaTourneau a West team?

Don't over look Pac Lu.....

The big enigma looks like Whitworth.  They start NWC conference play next weekend.  I looked at their record heading into NWC conference play last year, and they were  6-5-1, this year they are 5-5-1, so tough to say where they stand.  However, it will shake out very soon, as next week Whitworth plays Puget Sound at home (a pretty interesting series, I believe) then it gets really tough, Whitworth plays at PLU, then, Linfield at Whitworth the following weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 04, 2013, 09:18:02 PM
I think PLU and Linfield have the best shot in the NWC because they have the pitching that can dominate on any given day. I still can't understand how Whitworth and Pacific won that league last year (That's why you play the game!). I think Fox's pitching will get exposed against the better teams in conference, and I will take strong pitching over hitting every time.

Of course I realize I will probably be completely wrong about this too.  ;D
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 04, 2013, 11:26:48 PM
Here is the toughness of the SCIAC teams' schedules by opponents winning %.

1) Chapman- .773%
2) CLU- .596%
3) CMS- .589%
4) Redlands- .560%
5) La Verne- .516%
6) Whittier- .487%
7) Pomona-Pitzer- .483%
8) Oxy- .194%

Pretty interesting numbers and I would say Chapman is doing a good job playing against a very tough schedule.  They might not be around at the end of the year but I fully expect them to be back next year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 04, 2013, 11:32:29 PM
Timing and getting hot at the right time is so important and I think Whitworth got hot at exactly the right time last year and it carried them through their conference into the Regionals. Whether that can happen again with a resurgent Linfield, GF and PLU - time will tell. I am not discounting their team at all but I am not sure they can repeat what they did last year.

I went and looked and they were beating teams pretty convincingly just looking at their scores. When Trinity beat them in the second game of the Regionals I thought they were done, and that shows you how much I know.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 05, 2013, 08:30:10 AM
Teams in West in the polls
http://www.d3baseball.com/top25/2013/2013week-2

6 Trinity - TX
15 Linfield
22 Whitworth
24 Texas-Tyler

Others receiving votes
Pomona-Pitzer
Concordia Texas
George Fox
Hardin Simmons
Texas Dallas

No love for Cal Lutheran. They have beat Pomona twice,  Whitworth win and a tie, George Fox twice. I guess they ran out of votes for SCIAC teams. 5 teams from Texas got votes.... :o :o :o :o :o....Could there be 4 teams in the West Regional from Texas.  :o :o... I guess we will check back in May,,,, ???

Teams with .500 or lower overall records should not be getting votes......Does anyone do they homerwork?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 05, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 05, 2013, 08:30:10 AM
Teams with .500 or lower overall records should not be getting votes......Does anyone do they homerwork?

Would that mean the 0-0 teams couldn't be ranked, Crash ? :D

But, yes, I'm pretty surprised anyone could be voting for CTX (among others) right now.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 05, 2013, 11:01:25 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 05, 2013, 08:30:10 AM
Teams in West in the polls
http://www.d3baseball.com/top25/2013/2013week-2

6 Trinity - TX
15 Linfield
22 Whitworth
24 Texas-Tyler

Others receiving votes
Pomona-Pitzer
Concordia Texas
George Fox
Hardin Simmons
Texas Dallas

No love for Cal Lutheran. They have beat Pomona twice,  Whitworth win and a tie, George Fox twice. I guess they ran out of votes for SCIAC teams. 5 teams from Texas got votes.... :o :o :o :o :o....Could there be 4 teams in the West Regional from Texas.  :o :o... I guess we will check back in May,,,, ???

Teams with .500 or lower overall records should not be getting votes......Does anyone do they homerwork?

Yes, I think this pole is very telling that nobody does their homework at all.  Examples

Concordia is still getting votes with a 7-10 record.
CLU went from 23 votes last week to 0 this week, even after taking 2/3 from Chapman.  Anyone who thinks Chapman is bad needs to look at their strength of schedule.
La Verne went from 5 votes last week to 0 this week.  I realize they played Cal Tech but why would that drop their votes?
Hardin Simmons went from 0 votes last week to 3 this week.  Nothing to me really seems to validate this.
UT-Dallas went from 0 votes this week to 2.  They did sweep Concordia but Concordia is 7-10!!

I understand that most of D-III is in the East/South/NE but I just dont get how some teams can still get votes and others can fluxuate so much??  Oh well, these are simple rankings but there is plenty of season left and these rankings are not going to make or break a team, they will determine their own outcome.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 05, 2013, 02:11:14 PM
Whitworth just dropped 2 games  to UTT this past weekend.  One of the games was a blowout. Yet they are still ranked ahead of them.

Go figure?

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2013, 02:27:01 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 05, 2013, 11:01:25 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 05, 2013, 08:30:10 AM
Teams in West in the polls
http://www.d3baseball.com/top25/2013/2013week-2

6 Trinity - TX
15 Linfield
22 Whitworth
24 Texas-Tyler

Others receiving votes
Pomona-Pitzer
Concordia Texas
George Fox
Hardin Simmons
Texas Dallas

No love for Cal Lutheran. They have beat Pomona twice,  Whitworth win and a tie, George Fox twice. I guess they ran out of votes for SCIAC teams. 5 teams from Texas got votes.... :o :o :o :o :o....Could there be 4 teams in the West Regional from Texas.  :o :o... I guess we will check back in May,,,, ???

Teams with .500 or lower overall records should not be getting votes......Does anyone do they homerwork?

Yes, I think this pole is very telling that nobody does their homework at all.  Examples

Concordia is still getting votes with a 7-10 record.
CLU went from 23 votes last week to 0 this week, even after taking 2/3 from Chapman.  Anyone who thinks Chapman is bad needs to look at their strength of schedule.
La Verne went from 5 votes last week to 0 this week.  I realize they played Cal Tech but why would that drop their votes?
Hardin Simmons went from 0 votes last week to 3 this week.  Nothing to me really seems to validate this.
UT-Dallas went from 0 votes this week to 2.  They did sweep Concordia but Concordia is 7-10!!

I understand that most of D-III is in the East/South/NE but I just dont get how some teams can still get votes and others can fluxuate so much??  Oh well, these are simple rankings but there is plenty of season left and these rankings are not going to make or break a team, they will determine their own outcome.
Actually very little of D-III is in the South.  Just 4 conferences in the South:  Capital AC which extends up to York PA, ODAC, USA South and the new SAA.

As for the ASC, I believe that the ASC champion is almost always worthy of Top25 consideration.  It is a "real knock-down drag out" conference!

We just have not figured out who that should be.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 05, 2013, 02:28:01 PM
Agree - don't get why Whitworth is still ranked. P-P, CLU both should get some love. Also GFox, PLU in the NWC. TLU in Texas....

Does not make a lot of sense to me.



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2013, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 05, 2013, 08:30:10 AM
Teams in West in the polls
http://www.d3baseball.com/top25/2013/2013week-2

6 Trinity - TX
15 Linfield
22 Whitworth
24 Texas-Tyler

Others receiving votes
Pomona-Pitzer  Yes 46 votes. Getting lots of love from several places.

Concordia Texas  Yes 14 votes, which could be two #21's and a #22 or even one single wild and crazy person giving them a #12!

George Fox  Yes 4 votes.  Probably some voter giving them a #22 vote off his "watchlist".

Hardin Simmons  Yes  3 votes.  Probably some voter giving them a #23 vote off his "watchlist".

Texas Dallas  Yes 2 votes.  Probably some voter giving them a #24 vote off his "watchlist".

No love for Cal Lutheran. They have beat Pomona twice,  Whitworth win and a tie, George Fox twice. I guess they ran out of votes for SCIAC teams. 5 teams from Texas got votes.... :o :o :o :o :o....Could there be 4 teams in the West Regional from Texas.  :o :o... I guess we will check back in May,,,, ???

Teams with .500 or lower overall records should not be getting votes......Does anyone do they homerwork?
:)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 05, 2013, 03:44:28 PM
Pomona-Pitzer loses 2 of 3 from Cal Lu but stays up in the ranking??????

CTX losing record should go to ZERO votes at this time. Whitworth also does not deserve any votes  at this time either.

As weeks pass things seem to get better...but some basic homework should make this better.

If losing records gets votes then the young Chapman Panthers should get a vote since they have played the toughest schedule in the West to date and have a few wins against these teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 05, 2013, 04:23:39 PM
Who votes on these polls?  I honestly never really thought of it but was just wondering.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on March 05, 2013, 04:46:51 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 05, 2013, 04:23:39 PM
Who votes on these polls?  I honestly never really thought of it but was just wondering.
I do. My entire ballot is open to ridicule each Wednesday in the Around the Nation column.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 05, 2013, 05:51:08 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on March 05, 2013, 04:46:51 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 05, 2013, 04:23:39 PM
Who votes on these polls?  I honestly never really thought of it but was just wondering.
I do. My entire ballot is open to ridicule each Wednesday in the Around the Nation column.

Thanks.  Are you the only one?  I'm not bashing it, just don't really see the logic in some of it but thats the best thing about America, we can all have our own opinions.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on March 05, 2013, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 05, 2013, 05:51:08 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on March 05, 2013, 04:46:51 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 05, 2013, 04:23:39 PM
Who votes on these polls?  I honestly never really thought of it but was just wondering.
I do. My entire ballot is open to ridicule each Wednesday in the Around the Nation column.

Thanks.  Are you the only one?  I'm not bashing it, just don't really see the logic in some of it but thats the best thing about America, we can all have our own opinions.
I'm just one of 25.
I critique my ballots. Everyone else can too. They're fair game.
The answer to your original question is stated at the bottom of the poll each week.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 06, 2013, 12:46:20 AM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on March 05, 2013, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 05, 2013, 05:51:08 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on March 05, 2013, 04:46:51 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 05, 2013, 04:23:39 PM
Who votes on these polls?  I honestly never really thought of it but was just wondering.
I do. My entire ballot is open to ridicule each Wednesday in the Around the Nation column.

Thanks.  Are you the only one?  I'm not bashing it, just don't really see the logic in some of it but thats the best thing about America, we can all have our own opinions.
I'm just one of 25.
I critique my ballots. Everyone else can too. They're fair game.
The answer to your original question is stated at the bottom of the poll each week.

I checked that and didn't realize who it was.  Again, not bashing it, I really appreciate all the effort you guys put into the site.  I couldn't even imagine trying to put these rankings together.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2013, 08:05:36 AM
The problem in baseball is that the various regions don't start at the same time.

By the end of this week, the West and South Region teams will have played 15 and the New Engalnd, New York, Central, Great Lakes and East Regions are just getting started.  The Midwest teams in Minnesota have been playing in the Metrodome.  It is really weird.

Yes, fans may post about how many teams that are getting votes now that will be in the poll come May.  In May you may not have more than 5-7 South and West Region teams left in the ballot, but you were trying to fill 25 ballot slots in late February.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 06, 2013, 09:29:07 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2013, 08:05:36 AM
The problem in baseball is that the various regions don't start at the same time.
AGREED  ;D

By the end of this week, the West and South Region teams will have played 15 and the New Engalnd, New York, Central, Great Lakes and East Regions are just getting started.  The Midwest teams in Minnesota have been playing in the Metrodome.  It is really weird.
Metrodome will be gone next year and it will get weirder

Yes, fans may post about how many teams that are getting votes now that will be in the poll come May.  In May you may not have more than 5-7 South and West Region teams left in the ballot, but you were trying to fill 25 ballot slots in late February.
SO TRUE
But once again teams with .500 or less records that have played several games(like the West) should not be receiving votes. Teams that have been beaten by other teams also should not be lower than those teams given similar loss records. Just my opinion which I always have.

My TOP TEAMS in the West
1) Linfield 10-1
2) Trinity-TX 12-2
3) Texas-Tyler 11-3
4) LeTourneau 9-2
5) Centenary 10-3
6) Cal Lutheran 7-4-1
7) Pomona-Pitzer 10-3
8) George Fox 10-4
9) Occidental 10-2
10) Texas-Lutheran 10-5
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 06, 2013, 04:03:07 PM
I like Crashes list but would swap out PLU for Oxy. They need to beat a team or two of substance to make me a believer.

...signed Mickey Dolenz
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on March 06, 2013, 08:27:37 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 06, 2013, 04:03:07 PM
I like Crashes list but would swap out PLU for Oxy. They need to beat a team or two of substance to make me a believer.

...signed Mickey Dolenz
Beating a team of 'substance' won't happen this weekend as Oxy has Cal Tech.  However, I suggest that Crash might be made a believer in the opposite direction.  Two of Oxy's wins were walk offs against a 1-16 La Sierra team (one in the 10th).  Cal Tech has a better record at 1-13.  Cal Tech lost to La Verne 5-3, so they've been playing well of late (and La Verne isn't bad, defending SCIAC champ and the only DIII team to beat Linfield thus far this year). If Cal Tech puts things together like they did in that second game against La Verne...
I've felt like Cal Tech was going to get a SCIAC game this year, and while I think their best chance is against CMS, they're in with a chance this weekend.  And if that happens, maybe Crash can leave a 12-3 team off his top teams list. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Gray Fox on March 06, 2013, 09:53:38 PM
Losing to Caltech in sports is the only way Oxy gets mentioned on ESPN.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 06, 2013, 10:52:50 PM
Some tough teams OXY has played this year  :o :o :o :o :o :o

La Sierra(1-16)
Austin (3-16)
Claremont(2-11)
Chapman(6-8)

Next tough series for OXY  ;D
Cal Tech(1-13)

I withdraw OXY being listed as a top team in the WEST....OXY will be 13-2 after playing Cal Tech Series unless OXY wants to make news by losing. LA Times, Local and National TV could feature Cal Tech with OXY
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2013, 11:18:07 PM
Leave LeTU in the top 10, but put them last.  In a series versus TLU, I think that TLU wins 2-1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 07, 2013, 06:45:45 AM
My TOP TEAMS in the West  ;D
1) Linfield 10-1
2) Trinity-TX 12-2
3) Texas-Tyler 11-3
4) LeTourneau 9-2
4) Centenary 10-3
5) Cal Lutheran 7-4-1
6) Pomona-Pitzer 10-3
7) George Fox 10-4
8) Pacific Lutheran 9-4
9) Occidental 10-2  ???
9) Texas-Lutheran 10-5
10 LeTourneau 9-2

* Receiving a single vote from OXY BOB....Occidental 10-2 soon to be 13-2.

Are we happier now?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 07, 2013, 11:07:48 AM
*I am happy now.  ;D**

* no one cares other than me and my dog.

** At least until Sunday and then let's see what happened over the weekend.

Crashes' ten this weekend.
---------------------------------------------------------

Linfield at Willamette - not much to be learned here.

TU at Centenary - One of the best series in the West this weekend. Budding rivalry.

UTT vs Mississippi Col - Might learn a little....only it UTT loses more than 1

CLU vs Redlands - Ditto UTT series

P-P vs Whittier - ho hum

GF at Pacific - Pray for rain (if your Pacific)

TLU vs MHB - Another good series

LeT vs Lousiana Col - Looks like a decent series

**** Don't know about the rest of the Crash ten wanabees looking to move up. Post them here if interested.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 07, 2013, 11:22:15 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 07, 2013, 11:07:48 AM
*I am happy now.  ;D**

* no one cares other than me and my dog.

** At least until Sunday and then let's see what happened over the weekend.

Crashes' ten this weekend.
---------------------------------------------------------

Linfield at Willamette - not much to be learned here.

TU at Centenary - One of the best series in the West this weekend. Budding rivalry.

UTT vs Mississippi Col - Might learn a little....only it UTT loses more than 1

CLU vs Redlands - Ditto UTT series

P-P vs Whittier - ho hum

GF at Pacific - Pray for rain (if your Pacific)

TLU vs MHB - Another good series

LeT vs Lousiana Col - Looks like a decent series

**** Don't know about the rest of the Crash ten wanabees looking to move up. Post them here if interested.
These teams are bringing their brooms this weekend
Linfield
Pomona-Pitzer
Cal-Lutheran
George Fox (and umbrella)

Occidental - Top Ten Wannabe...Could be the worst 13-2 team in the Nation by Sunday
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on March 07, 2013, 12:33:31 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 07, 2013, 11:07:48 AM

Linfield at Willamette - not much to be learned here.


Willamette's record isn't great but they've dropped a number of one run games.  I expect them to give Linfield a tough weekend but the 'Cats should be a heavy favorite.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 08, 2013, 07:53:32 AM
Some teams in the West have great records by playing weak teams.

http://www.d3baseball.com/seasons/2013/schedule?tmpl=sos-template
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 08, 2013, 08:36:46 AM
But Trinity (TX) just defeated the team with the #1 SOS in the country last night!!!   ;)

Agree that at least some of the "top" teams in the West will start to fall out once they encounter some quality competition.   We should get a better handle on where Trinity stands with their series at Centenary (La) followed next Tuesday a single at home against a pretty decent Texas Lutheran. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 08, 2013, 08:47:22 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 08, 2013, 08:36:46 AM
But Trinity (TX) just defeated the team with the #1 SOS in the country last night!!!   ;)

Agree that at least some of the "top" teams in the West will start to fall out once they encounter some quality competition.   We should get a better handle on where Trinity stands with their series at Centenary (La) followed next Tuesday a single at home against a pretty decent Texas Lutheran. 
Outstanding they beat a team that is 2-4.....Trinity should be getting some #1 votes this week. Let's not forget Trinity before that game had a TOUGH #195 SOS rating. Also  Trinity will complete in the TOUGH SCAC conference for that Pool A AQ Bid....Could be tough with 5 4 3  2 teams that have real shot at the POOL A BID(Trinity & UDallas)

Does Trinity have the TOUGHEST path to the Pool A bid in the country?  :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

http://www.d3baseball.com/conf/SCAC/2013/standings
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 08, 2013, 10:25:20 AM
Gosh, Crash, it was a joke, I'm fully aware that a team that's 1-0 in region is only #1 in SOS as a fluke, if you'd actually read the next para where I said that the games against Centenary and TLU would give a better handle on Trinity you might have realized that.   

Overreact much?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2013, 11:30:58 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 08, 2013, 08:36:46 AM
But Trinity (TX) just defeated the team with the #1 SOS in the country last night!!!   ;)

Agree that at least some of the "top" teams in the West will start to fall out once they encounter some quality competition.   We should get a better handle on where Trinity stands with their series at Centenary (La) followed next Tuesday a single at home against a pretty decent Texas Lutheran.
This year, this "early season game" for DeSales on the spring trip does not count as towards the SOS.

As I understand the rules changes for next year, this game (early season DeSales versus mid-season Trinity) will count as towards SOS and the championship/Pool C considerations.

How long will we continue to see matchups such as this and the East Coast teams (Kean and Rutgers-Newark) going to the SCIAC schools for spring trips?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 08, 2013, 01:56:38 PM
I am openly a Trinty homey, but I have always been very straightforward and honest about the team, the program and their schedule, which is weak this year IMO. It is, again IMO ,one of the most talented teams they have fielded in a number of years, and it will be a disappointment for everyone involved  in the program if they don't move on to Appleton this year. It remains to be seen if "talent" can be translated into a winning team. Everyone knows getting through a baseball regional is one of the toughest things to do for a sports team since all it takes is one hot pitcher, an injury, ect to knock a team out. 

That said they have the easiest path to the Regionals of any quality team in the West. (again IMO)  It is not the programs fault that they have an easier schedule, it just worked out this way this year. This year they have to win the SCAC, which only has 5 teams and the best team not named Trinity is not eligible. The fact is that the other teams are significantly weaker than Cent and TU. Their challenge is to play enough tough games and get this team ready to do battle later in the year with the very good teams they will face who have likely played tougher schedules. 
So far this year this team has shown that they can swing the bat as well as anyone in the country, they have a very deep pitching staff that showed last night that they can bring in arms that can shut down a team when one or two of their pitchers are not on, and they played a very good defensive game. (one of a few I would add)

IMO they must continue to get better defensively and continue to develop the pitching staff so they don't run out of arms like they did last year in the Regionals. The team is literally two deep at every position on the field, so they need to keep getting enough innings for these players so it won't matter if someone gets injured, or they can ride a hot bat, or sit a cold one. If they can do this and develop that winning chemistry then they will move on.

You could probably ask every player or coach on the team this year about whether they care about the number one ranking, and I would bet everyone would tell you the same thing, "the only time number one means anything is at the end of the season" Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 08, 2013, 02:19:42 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 08, 2013, 10:25:20 AM
Gosh, Crash, it was a joke, I'm fully aware that a team that's 1-0 in region is only #1 in SOS as a fluke, if you'd actually read the next para where I said that the games against Centenary and TLU would give a better handle on Trinity you might have realized that.   

Overreact much?
I know it was a joke. I just felt grumpy and sarcastic...SORRY !
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 08, 2013, 02:25:53 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 08, 2013, 01:56:38 PM
I am openly a Trinty homey, but I have always been very straightforward and honest about the team, the program and their schedule, which is weak this year IMO. It is, again IMO ,one of the most talented teams they have fielded in a number of years, and it will be a disappointment for everyone involved  in the program if they don't move on to Appleton this year. It remains to be seen if "talent" can be translated into a winning team. Everyone knows getting through a baseball regional is one of the toughest things to do for a sports team since all it takes is one hot pitcher, an injury, ect to knock a team out. 

That said they have the easiest path to the Regionals of any quality team in the West. (again IMO)  It is not the programs fault that they have an easier schedule, it just worked out this way this year. This year they have to win the SCAC, which only has 5 teams and the best team not named Trinity is not eligible. The fact is that the other teams are significantly weaker than Cent and TU. Their challenge is to play enough tough games and get this team ready to do battle later in the year with the very good teams they will face who have likely played tougher schedules. 
So far this year this team has shown that they can swing the bat as well as anyone in the country, they have a very deep pitching staff that showed last night that they can bring in arms that can shut down a team when one or two of their pitchers are not on, and they played a very good defensive game. (one of a few I would add)

IMO they must continue to get better defensively and continue to develop the pitching staff so they don't run out of arms like they did last year in the Regionals. The team is literally two deep at every position on the field, so they need to keep getting enough innings for these players so it won't matter if someone gets injured, or they can ride a hot bat, or sit a cold one. If they can do this and develop that winning chemistry then they will move on.

You could probably ask every player or coach on the team this year about whether they care about the number one ranking, and I would bet everyone would tell you the same thing, "the only time number one means anything is at the end of the season" Just my 2 cents.

Excellent Assessment. Trinity well coached, great players has been so close getting to Appleton in past years. Always played Chapman tough against great Chapman teams in past years. BUT playing a weak overall schedule, SCAC tournament getting done weeks before regional and staying at hotels far from the field at the regional has not helped Trinity get over the hump to get to Appleton. I expect Trinity to be on the teams as favorites to win the regional IF they stay healthy. I also expect Linfield to be back at the Regional to compete for that spot to Appleton. I am not sure about the rest of the WEST with so many games to go...Will Chapman miss their 2nd regional and maybe even the SCIAC playoffs..? Time will tell.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on March 08, 2013, 03:04:46 PM
I am not convinced that TU is a top team yet. As has been noted they have played a weak schedule so far (not necessarily by choice). This has allowed the coaching staff to "audition" a good number of freshman. From my perspective, most had done their job but none have proven that they are beyond their years.

Hitting has been good against weak teams. I question how good the hitting will be against tougher competition.

I see lots of good arms; yet few have really been tested. Again, this is the challenge of playing a weak schedule.

The team is nearly 1/2 way through their schedule. The second half will really indicate what kind of team it is and can they get through a regional (assuming the win the SCAC). They have 14 games with Centenary, Dallas, TLU, HS & CTX; in my mind they need to win 10 of these games for them to show me that they are ready to compete at regionals.

I am also a bit of a "homer" yet I don't see the dominant pitchers that prior teams have had. Lucero has done a good job; but really isn't going far beyond 5 innings per game. Barron has struggled, Bentz has done well but has not been as strong as prior years. I see lot's of arms, but I don't see 3-4 solid starters that can carry a team deep into a game. They will do well in the SCAC but this year I don't think that will really mean much.

Then assuming they win the SCAC they haven't dealt effectively in the past with their one month layoff before regionals.

In baseball where the west teams play early people want to get excited about teams that post a good record early. However, this may be a case of listening to the great OZ "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

I sure hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 08, 2013, 03:49:04 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on March 08, 2013, 03:04:46 PM
I am not convinced that TU is a top team yet. As has been noted they have played a weak schedule so far (not necessarily by choice). This has allowed the coaching staff to "audition" a good number of freshman. From my perspective, most had done their job but none have proven that they are beyond their years.

Hitting has been good against weak teams. I question how good the hitting will be against tougher competition.

I see lots of good arms; yet few have really been tested. Again, this is the challenge of playing a weak schedule.

The team is nearly 1/2 way through their schedule. The second half will really indicate what kind of team it is and can they get through a regional (assuming the win the SCAC). They have 14 games with Centenary, Dallas, TLU, HS & CTX; in my mind they need to win 10 of these games for them to show me that they are ready to compete at regionals.

I am also a bit of a "homer" yet I don't see the dominant pitchers that prior teams have had. Lucero has done a good job; but really isn't going far beyond 5 innings per game. Barron has struggled, Bentz has done well but has not been as strong as prior years. I see lot's of arms, but I don't see 3-4 solid starters that can carry a team deep into a game. They will do well in the SCAC but this year I don't think that will really mean much.

Then assuming they win the SCAC they haven't dealt effectively in the past with their one month layoff before regionals.

In baseball where the west teams play early people want to get excited about teams that post a good record early. However, this may be a case of listening to the great OZ "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

I sure hope I am wrong.
Trinity e 2 losses have been to losing teams Chapman(6-8) and Austin(3-16). Chapman beat them 11-1 and Austin 4-2. Both may not make their conference tourney. So what does this mean when for Trinity when they have to play alot game against top teams in a few days....

Last game for SCAC Championship is April 28th. West Regional starts on May 15th. That 2 1/2 weeks of no baseball against other teams. That is a huge break which hurts Trinity every year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 08, 2013, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2013, 11:30:58 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 08, 2013, 08:36:46 AM
But Trinity (TX) just defeated the team with the #1 SOS in the country last night!!!   ;)

Agree that at least some of the "top" teams in the West will start to fall out once they encounter some quality competition.   We should get a better handle on where Trinity stands with their series at Centenary (La) followed next Tuesday a single at home against a pretty decent Texas Lutheran.
This year, this "early season game" for DeSales on the spring trip does not count as towards the SOS.

As I understand the rules changes for next year, this game (early season DeSales versus mid-season Trinity) will count as towards SOS and the championship/Pool C considerations.

How long will we continue to see matchups such as this and the East Coast teams (Kean and Rutgers-Newark) going to the SCIAC schools for spring trips?

Thats interesting Ralph.  I am interested to see what happens with all of the East Coast teams coming West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 08, 2013, 03:57:35 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2013, 11:30:58 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 08, 2013, 08:36:46 AM
But Trinity (TX) just defeated the team with the #1 SOS in the country last night!!!   ;)

Agree that at least some of the "top" teams in the West will start to fall out once they encounter some quality competition.   We should get a better handle on where Trinity stands with their series at Centenary (La) followed next Tuesday a single at home against a pretty decent Texas Lutheran.
This year, this "early season game" for DeSales on the spring trip does not count as towards the SOS.

As I understand the rules changes for next year, this game (early season DeSales versus mid-season Trinity) will count as towards SOS and the championship/Pool C considerations.

How long will we continue to see matchups such as this and the East Coast teams (Kean and Rutgers-Newark) going to the SCIAC schools for spring trips?
With changes next year, I would expect less trips to west for East Coast team for those that are concerned about Pool C and SOS. For teams like Kean I dont think they will change. They want to play the best on the west and intend on winning their Pool A conference bid. You dont get better by playing bad teams if you are planning to Appleton every year. For rest of the teams it may change with less trips to the west coast
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Big Louie on March 08, 2013, 04:42:41 PM
Crash I disagree....Eastern teams will be more prone to come West now once all games count based on SOS. It makes no sense for a team from the East to come to the West Region to play games when they don't count as in-region games. In-Region records are what determine who gets POOL C's.

That is why you see so many Eastern teams going to Florida so they can get in-region games in. Kean approaches things a little different and would rather get tested against tough Western teams that help prepare them to make a run in the NJAC. In hindsight if Kean drops all there West Coast games it has no effect on whether they will get a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2013, 05:02:42 PM
I have always looked at the  "dyssynchronous" scheduling (an early season cold-weather team playing a mid-season warm weather team) as playing D3 teams, (as opposed to D2) who were slightly ahead in their in-season progression, but getting a chance to see comparable D-3 talent.  The loss doesn't hurt in primary criteria. You get a "result" in the secondary criteria.   Kinda like running 400-meter laps on the track and having the "rabbit" start an extra stagger or two ahead of you.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 08, 2013, 05:05:59 PM
If all games count towards SOS not just in region in 2014, why would EAST COAST Teams come West. West coast teams have 10 or more games under their belt while the EAST Coast team will have zero or very few.

Please understand their is a change going to take place in 2014 is what I understand. ALL D3 games will count not just in region for Pool C bids. Others can confirm or verify this if I am wrong but is what I read and heard.

This could translate into less COLD WEATHER teams coming West.

Or teams in the East start at the same time as West but make trips to Florida, Arizona, Texas, California. Teams in CA start in Late January/Early February for their 1st games of the year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on March 08, 2013, 05:31:15 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 08, 2013, 05:05:59 PM
If all games count towards SOS not just in region in 2014, why would EAST COAST Teams come West. West coast teams have 10 or more games under their belt while the EAST Coast team will have zero or very few.

Please understand their is a change going to take place in 2014 is what I understand. ALL D3 games will count not just in region for Pool C bids. Others can confirm or verify this if I am wrong but is what I read and heard.

This could translate into less COLD WEATHER teams coming West.

Or teams in the East start at the same time as West but make trips to Florida, Arizona, Texas, California. Teams in CA start in Late January/Early February for their 1st games of the year.
True. And your concerns are not unique. "A game is a game" will be the focus of a column much later in the season. Not all of the coaches I contacted like it. The second half of the selection chair Q&A deals with the rule change as well. Part I of that Q&A is next Wednesday.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on March 09, 2013, 02:36:48 AM
UT Tyler takes game 1 from Mississippi College 7-1 as they continue to get great production out of their pitching staff. The bats are starting to come along as well.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on March 09, 2013, 08:06:07 PM
UT Tyler completes the sweep winning 2-1 and 7-2 on Saturday.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 10, 2013, 11:09:18 PM
Trinity dropped 2 of 3 vs Centenary over the weekend.

Gm1
TU    3 - 9 – 1
Cen   0 – 2 – 0

Gm2
TU   1 – 5 – 2
Cen    11 – 11- 2

Gm3
TU   5- 11 – 2
Cen   6 -5 – 2

Did not see the game today but heard that TU more or less snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. After seeing the Sat games and hearing about today's game, they are making way too many errors on both sides of the ball for a championship team at the moment.  The elements are there but time will tell if they can put it together.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 10, 2013, 11:41:50 PM
With the addition of TLU in 2014, the SCAC will be one tough baseball conference!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 10, 2013, 11:55:34 PM
MOST WINS in the West as of March 10, 2013

Trinity 15-4
Texas Tyler 14-4
Texas Lutheran 14-5
Occidental 13-2
Linfield 12-3
Centenary 12-4
Pomona Pitzer 12-4
George Fox 12-5
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 11, 2013, 12:02:06 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 10, 2013, 11:09:18 PM
Trinity dropped 2 of 3 vs Centenary over the weekend.

Gm1
TU    3 - 9 – 1
Cen   0 – 2 – 0

Gm2
TU   1 – 5 – 2
Cen    11 – 11- 2

Gm3
TU   5- 11 – 2
Cen   6 -5 – 2

Did not see the game today but heard that TU more or less snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. After seeing the Sat games and hearing about today's game, they are making way too many errors on both sides of the ball for a championship team at the moment.  The elements are there but time will tell if they can put it together.
Trinity TX SHOULD drop in the polls while Centenary should be included and rise. Will OXY, get a vote at 13-2.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 11, 2013, 12:08:24 AM
Crash I don't think they (Centenary) is eligible to be in the polls. They are a very good D3 team, but have a few D1 carry overs. Ralph or someone could shed some light on it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 11, 2013, 07:29:21 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 11, 2013, 12:08:24 AM
Crash I don't think they (Centenary) is eligible to be in the polls. They are a very good D3 team, but have a few D1 carry overs. Ralph or someone could shed some light on it.
Others can correct me.

D3 Baseball Polls - ???
NCAA Regional Ranking - No
SCAC Playoffs - Yes
NCAA Regional Playoffs - No
Other D3 baseball polls - ???

At the bottom of D3baseball.com Top 25 poll
The D3baseball.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly. Full members of NCAA Division III are eligible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 11, 2013, 09:57:55 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 11, 2013, 07:29:21 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 11, 2013, 12:08:24 AM
Crash I don't think they (Centenary) is eligible to be in the polls. They are a very good D3 team, but have a few D1 carry overs. Ralph or someone could shed some light on it.
Others can correct me.

D3 Baseball Polls - ???
NCAA Regional Ranking - No
SCAC Playoffs - Yes
NCAA Regional Playoffs - No
Other D3 baseball polls - ???

At the bottom of D3baseball.com Top 25 poll
The D3baseball.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly. Full members of NCAA Division III are eligible.
Yes, Centenary is "D-III re-classifying".  They are not eligible for the NCAA playoffs. They were NCAA D-1 as recently as 2010-11.  They spent 2011-12 in the ASC.  They should be full members in 2014-15.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on March 13, 2013, 03:49:48 AM
UT Tyler moves to 15-4 with a 10-5 Tuesday night victory over Hendrix in Conway.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 13, 2013, 11:34:14 AM
Trinity beat TLU last night in what is beginning to be typical fashion this year. Pound the ball, good pitching (actually outstanding by the Soph starter) with 11K's in 6.2 innings of work, as well as continued poor fielding. I also agree with ILVBB on some of the decisions by the coaching staff, but it is easy to criticize without being there, plus it is baseball and that is what we do.

Trinity University             IP  H  R ER BB SO  WP BK HP IBB  AB BF  FO GO
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zack Speer ................   6.2  3  3  1  2 11   0  0  1  0   22 25   4  4

Texas Lutheran...... 000 000 600 -  6  5  1
Trinity University.....400 000 22X -  8 14  3

I am not sure if there is a better hitter in D3 ball right now, but Pat Hirschberg has to be close to the top with an OPS of 1.6 and unreal numbers. I saw BSC Bruce Maxwell last year and Hirschberg is in the same zone right now IMO.

Next up for TU is an away weekend series with a well coached  UofDallas squad that is probably better than their record.

No question that TU is one of the top teams in the country but a few things will have to change IMO to make it a championship team.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 13, 2013, 12:16:53 PM
Big win for TU.  The TU errors kept TLU in the game!  It is also nice that they answered the 6-spot with two 2-run innings.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on March 13, 2013, 12:32:55 PM
108 - I didn't question coaching decisions' what I said or attempted to say is they tried many freshman in the field and on the mound, hence the word "auditioned". The point that I was making was the team had yet to be challenged at the level they needed to see to make a statement at regionals.

However, even looking at the win last night you see some good (hitting) with somethings that can lead one to question how good a team they are (errors and bullpen).

Teams need to be challenged, they need to see how good or in some cases how tough they are. I tried to make the point that they needed to win 10 of 14 games against teams that have a track record of being competitive. Since my post they are 2-2.

I don't know how good they are and other than playing tough teams over a short period of time, it will be hard to see how good they will be when regionals come around.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on March 13, 2013, 06:28:45 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on March 08, 2013, 05:31:15 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 08, 2013, 05:05:59 PM
If all games count towards SOS not just in region in 2014, why would EAST COAST Teams come West. West coast teams have 10 or more games under their belt while the EAST Coast team will have zero or very few.

Please understand their is a change going to take place in 2014 is what I understand. ALL D3 games will count not just in region for Pool C bids. Others can confirm or verify this if I am wrong but is what I read and heard.

This could translate into less COLD WEATHER teams coming West.

Or teams in the East start at the same time as West but make trips to Florida, Arizona, Texas, California. Teams in CA start in Late January/Early February for their 1st games of the year.
True. And your concerns are not unique. "A game is a game" will be the focus of a column much later in the season. Not all of the coaches I contacted like it. The second half of the selection chair Q&A deals with the rule change as well. Part I of that Q&A is next Wednesday.
As it stands right now, 3 east coast schools (Kean, Bridgewater and Ithaca) came to the SCIAC for their spring break trip.  Two are ranked, one is receiving votes.  No SCIAC teams are ranked, though a few are receiving votes. 
Thus far, those 3 teams are a combined 2 wins and 8 losses against the SCIAC.  One of the wins came against CMS, which may do more harm to a team's SOS than it benefits their WL%.   
Factor in what Cal Tech does to your OOWP, and one can start to see what some coaches don't like it. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 13, 2013, 09:16:10 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on March 13, 2013, 06:28:45 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on March 08, 2013, 05:31:15 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 08, 2013, 05:05:59 PM
If all games count towards SOS not just in region in 2014, why would EAST COAST Teams come West. West coast teams have 10 or more games under their belt while the EAST Coast team will have zero or very few.

Please understand their is a change going to take place in 2014 is what I understand. ALL D3 games will count not just in region for Pool C bids. Others can confirm or verify this if I am wrong but is what I read and heard.

This could translate into less COLD WEATHER teams coming West.

Or teams in the East start at the same time as West but make trips to Florida, Arizona, Texas, California. Teams in CA start in Late January/Early February for their 1st games of the year.
True. And your concerns are not unique. "A game is a game" will be the focus of a column much later in the season. Not all of the coaches I contacted like it. The second half of the selection chair Q&A deals with the rule change as well. Part I of that Q&A is next Wednesday.
As it stands right now, 3 east coast schools (Kean, Bridgewater and Ithaca) came to the SCIAC for their spring break trip.  Two are ranked, one is receiving votes.  No SCIAC teams are ranked, though a few are receiving votes. 
Thus far, those 3 teams are a combined 2 wins and 8 losses against the SCIAC.  One of the wins came against CMS, which may do more harm to a team's SOS than it benefits their WL%.   
Factor in what Cal Tech does to your OOWP, and one can start to see what some coaches don't like it.

Yep, and Kean has one trophy and Ithaca has two!   ....so, it's about time a NWC (or SCIAC) team rises up and takes it all this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 14, 2013, 12:04:46 AM
Quote from: Whatagame on March 13, 2013, 09:16:10 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on March 13, 2013, 06:28:45 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on March 08, 2013, 05:31:15 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 08, 2013, 05:05:59 PM
If all games count towards SOS not just in region in 2014, why would EAST COAST Teams come West. West coast teams have 10 or more games under their belt while the EAST Coast team will have zero or very few.

Please understand their is a change going to take place in 2014 is what I understand. ALL D3 games will count not just in region for Pool C bids. Others can confirm or verify this if I am wrong but is what I read and heard.

This could translate into less COLD WEATHER teams coming West.

Or teams in the East start at the same time as West but make trips to Florida, Arizona, Texas, California. Teams in CA start in Late January/Early February for their 1st games of the year.
True. And your concerns are not unique. "A game is a game" will be the focus of a column much later in the season. Not all of the coaches I contacted like it. The second half of the selection chair Q&A deals with the rule change as well. Part I of that Q&A is next Wednesday.
As it stands right now, 3 east coast schools (Kean, Bridgewater and Ithaca) came to the SCIAC for their spring break trip.  Two are ranked, one is receiving votes.  No SCIAC teams are ranked, though a few are receiving votes. 
Thus far, those 3 teams are a combined 2 wins and 8 losses against the SCIAC.  One of the wins came against CMS, which may do more harm to a team's SOS than it benefits their WL%.   
Factor in what Cal Tech does to your OOWP, and one can start to see what some coaches don't like it.

Yep, and Kean has one trophy and Ithaca has two!   ....so, it's about time a NWC (or SCIAC) team rises up and takes it all this year.
SCIAC Chapman has 1 (B4 SCIAC) 1 finals and couple of 3rd places.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on March 16, 2013, 12:29:55 PM
It's really too early to be making any kind of rankings, but here's what my West rankings would look like if I had to pull the trigger today:

1. Linfield: 12-3 -  The top of their rotation is only rivaled by UT Tyler's, but I think Linfield has more depth. They play good D and have a lot of guys that can swing the stick.
2. Trinity: 16-4 - They're going to beat themselves here and there, but Scannell has let a lot of guys see action already this year. They'll be battle tested and what Hirschberg is doing at the plate is just silly.
3. UT Tyler: 15-5 - Have flopped them w/ Cal Lu no less than 5x b/c I think SCIAC might be stronger conference this year. If they don't sweep UTD today they should move down, but I like their rotation. They always seem to get exploited during tournament play, though.
4. Cal Lutheran: 11-5-1 - They've won every series against the "better" teams in their conference. Save for La Verne it only gets easier during the 2nd half of their season.
5. George Fox: 12-5 - They looked great in the AZ Desert Classic, but they have 9 games left w/  Whitworth, Pac Lu & Linfield. Long road ahead.
6. Pomona : 14-4 - Interesting to see how today's DH with Chapman goes, but they feel like the 2nd best team in the SCIAC this year.

7-13 is where it starts to get a little muddy.

ASC:
UT Dallas - I think they can beat anyone with Derek Dallas on the bump, but they're just above average after him. 0-4 in the Desert Classic against the NWC/SCIAC, but have taken 5 of 7 from the top two teams in the ASC West.
Texas Lutheran - They're really missing Kellen McGriff who was 5-1 on the bump last year, but it may be a blessing in disguise as other guys Snider/Harwell have had to log innings. They play great D, but I just dunno if they can beat anyone if it comes to a slug fest.
Concordia - They've struggled to replace some guys from the top of their rotation last year, seem to be a bit weaker at the plate, have already matched their loss total from last year, lost all 4 in the Desert classic and got swept by UTD. I still wouldn't be surprised if they won the ASC tournament.

NWC:
Pac Lutheran - Konopaski,, Beatty, & Lubking have all looked great on the bump. We'll know a lot more once they square off against Linfield and George Fox.
Whitworth - They've struggled on the road thus far this year, but they did take 2 of 3 from Cal Lu to open their season. Did they get hot at the right time last year? Probably -- but what I like about them is they seem to sweep their series' against the 'weaker' teams. Those games add up.

SCIAC:
Chapman - I think they're young. I think they make too many mistakes and I don't think they're good enough on the bump, but I don't ever count out Tereschuk and staff.
La Verne - They've beaten Linfield, Kean and Ithaca, but dropping 2 of 3 to Chapman and losing to CMS in conference play doesn't bode well with Pomona and Cal Lu still lurking later in the season.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on March 16, 2013, 08:24:30 PM
UTT takes two of three at UTD giving up a total of 5 runs. They have allowed 9 runs total in six conference games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 17, 2013, 01:36:49 PM
Pretty much agree with JSG, except that for accuracy purposes I would put Centenary as one of the top 4-5 teams, even though they can't move on. They have two D1 holdovers who gave up scholly's so they could participate in the SCAC tournament and the rest are D3 recruits. In my book they should be mentioned just because they are so good and the program/kids deserve to be mentioned. The top teams in the SCIAC are starting to separate themselves with CLU, P-P looking good with the 3 – 4  place a bit of a scramble.

For Trinity a 4th and 5th starter are emerging, as well as a flame throwing closer who seems to be able to throw strikes this year. If they continue to develop their pitching staff they will have the depth necessary come Regionals with two experienced options for late game shut downs and a group of middle relievers to bridge to them if necessary. Defensive development will be critical for them.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on March 17, 2013, 09:54:08 PM
UTT has Centenary coming in to town for three games the first weekend in April, I'm excited to see how we stack up.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 18, 2013, 05:42:39 AM
MY TOP TEAMS

NWC
Linfield(15-3)
George Fox(15-5)

SCAC
Trinity-Texas(19-4)
Centenary(15-5)

ASC
Texas-Tyler(17-5)
Texas-Lutheran(17-6)

SCIAC
Cal Lutheran(13-5-1)
Pomona-Pitzer(15-5)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 19, 2013, 12:50:18 PM
Texas Luthern snub? 
Texas Luthern is 17-6 and not ranked in the top 25. Worse they are not even among the unranked teams that recieved votes and  mentioned below the top 25. That means they got no love from anyone. I find that strange given that UTT with a similar record is now ranked 15th. Is the quality of their wins and overall competition considered that much inferior? Maybee they just don't have as good a press agent.

???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 19, 2013, 01:03:43 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 18, 2013, 05:42:39 AM
MY TOP TEAMS

NWC
Linfield(15-3)
George Fox(15-5)

SCAC
Trinity-Texas(19-4)
Centenary(15-5)

ASC
Texas-Tyler(17-5)
Texas-Lutheran(17-6)

SCIAC
Cal Lutheran(13-5-1)
Pomona-Pitzer(15-5)

Forget about ranking nationally since I would be clueless, but how would you rank these?

1. Linfield
2. Trinity
3. CLU
4. Centenary
5. P-P
6. T-T.
7. TLU
8. George Fox


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 19, 2013, 01:09:15 PM
I am not so sure about Centenary. I would have them down below P-P and T-T but otherwise I am in agreement with your rankings. Still a long way to go but a good snap shot.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2013, 02:25:02 PM
Whom has TLU beaten?

They play a good schedule for this part of the country, but the emphasis on the best teams in the West starts with the Arizona Tournament in February and builds from there.

I realize how hard it is to get a team to come to the periphery of D-III.  There is not other D-III team "south" of Seguin, but playing nationally recognized opponents is critical.

TLU is almost a decade removed from their glory days.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on March 19, 2013, 02:30:19 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 19, 2013, 12:50:18 PM
Texas Luthern snub? 
Texas Luthern is 17-6 and not ranked in the top 25. Worse they are not even among the unranked teams that recieved votes and  mentioned below the top 25. That means they got no love from anyone. I find that strange given that UTT with a similar record is now ranked 15th. Is the quality of their wins and overall competition considered that much inferior? Maybee they just don't have as good a press agent.

???

I don't think it's a snub at this point in the season. We could argue the merits of "also receiving votes" perhaps, but if I was putting together a ballot this would jump out at me:

Lost to Concordia
Lost 2 of 3 to UT Dallas
Lost to Trinity

I would see 1-4 against "quality" opponents; whereas, with UT Tyler I would argue that they're about 6-2 against "quality" opponents. Now, if UT Tyler doesn't fare well against Centenary and TLU takes 5 of 7 from Hardin Simmons, Concordia and Trinity at the end of their season that might be a different story.

I think considering the body of work that the people doing the polls have to go on (the south and the west have played way more games than the rest of the country), they West is represented fairly well. I'd probably have Cal Lutheran in the 20-25 range, ahead of their conference rival Pomona, however.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on March 19, 2013, 02:32:32 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 19, 2013, 01:03:43 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 18, 2013, 05:42:39 AM
MY TOP TEAMS

NWC
Linfield(15-3)
George Fox(15-5)

SCAC
Trinity-Texas(19-4)
Centenary(15-5)

ASC
Texas-Tyler(17-5)
Texas-Lutheran(17-6)

SCIAC
Cal Lutheran(13-5-1)
Pomona-Pitzer(15-5)

Forget about ranking nationally since I would be clueless, but how would you rank these?

1. Linfield
2. Trinity
3. CLU
4. Centenary
5. P-P
6. T-T.
7. TLU
8. George Fox

Like this: http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7677.msg1505572#msg1505572

I've probably unfairly excluded Centenary since they're not eligible for post-season play. They're an interesting team to me, having swiped 2 of 3 from a very good Trinity team, but suffered losses at the hands of U of D, Austin College and ETBU. They're also very reliant on their top 4 arms. Not sure how well they'd be built for tournament play.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 19, 2013, 03:09:34 PM
Speaking of teams that deserve mention, how is George Fox not on the list? (I think the other d3 poll had them 8th overall.) They are tied with linfield and just dismantled a decent Willamette squad this weekend. Their offense has been destroying everyone.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on March 19, 2013, 05:28:49 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on March 19, 2013, 03:09:34 PM
Speaking of teams that deserve mention, how is George Fox not on the list? (I think the other d3 poll had them 8th overall.) They are tied with linfield and just dismantled a decent Willamette squad this weekend. Their offense has been destroying everyone.

I'd have GFU around 5th in the West right now, but not nationally ranked. Like I said in my analysis, I think they had a great AZ classic, but I think dropping 2 of 3 to Cal Lu (despite being close games) hurts them a bit. I think a lot of people are in the "watch and wait phase" with them because they still have Whittier, Pac Lu and Linfield late in the season. Nobody is going to give them any votes for beating up on Lewis and Clark and Willamette. That doesn't tell us anything.

Rapacz, Clifford and Williams in the middle of that line-up have been fantastic, though.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2013, 07:00:42 PM
JSG mentioned the Arizona Classic.

I cannot overstate the importance to a program to play in the Classic, at least on a bi-yearly basis.  You can tell much about the quality of a program from how they stack up against the best from the rest of West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 20, 2013, 12:13:39 AM
I have to say there is some pretty insightful stuff here guys, love it.

Trinity beat MHB tonight and got another great outing from their starting Soph pitcher Speers, 6IP, 9K's, I think the only reason they pulled him was to get some other guys some work.  MHB beat themselves with 4 errors, but these are the type of games good teams have to win. Sound pitching, good defense and put the ball in play and make the other team field the ball. Their offense was off, but they ground out a W.

Mary Hardin-Baylor.. 011 000 000 -  2  7  4
Trinity University..    201 100 10X -  5  6  0

Their pitching staff is starting to fill out like I thought it might with a staff ERA of 2.6 and 6 potential starters with some good bullpen role pitchers and a couple of late inning guys who can shut a team down. Their number 2 is struggling a bit but I am sure will get it together over the next 8 weeks.

They are a solid team that if they keep developing can be a great one. I personally don't consider them a number 2 in the country but as someone posted in the national thread all of the others around them fell by the wayside. Certainly a top 10 at least.

They have an easy weekend with a nice run of teams the following week with CTX, Centenary, and Harden Simons.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: LongBallGone on March 20, 2013, 12:21:59 AM
http://www.baseballnews.com/old/polls/divIII/currentpolldiviii.htm

Nice to see a number of West-region schools represented in the new Collegiate Baseball poll. 8 total in the Top 30, including 4 in the Top 8. Also nice to see teams like George Fox, Texas Lutheran, Pomona, and Cal Lu getting praise considering they aren't really in the D3 poll.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 20, 2013, 09:12:50 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 20, 2013, 12:13:39 AM
I have to say there is some pretty insightful stuff here guys, love it.
Trinity beat MHB tonight and got another great outing from their starting Soph pitcher Speers, 6IP, 9K's, I think the only reason they pulled him was to get some other guys some work.  MHB beat themselves with 4 errors, but these are the type of games good teams have to win. Sound pitching, good defense and put the ball in play and make the other team field the ball. Their offense was off, but they ground out a W.

Mary Hardin-Baylor.. 011 000 000 -  2  7  4
Trinity University..    201 100 10X -  5  6  0

Their pitching staff is starting to fill out like I thought it might with a staff ERA of 2.6 and 6 potential starters with some good bullpen role pitchers and a couple of late inning guys who can shut a team down. Their number 2 is struggling a bit but I am sure will get it together over the next 8 weeks.

They are a solid team that if they keep developing can be a great one. I personally don't consider them a number 2 in the country but as someone posted in the national thread all of the others around them fell by the wayside. Certainly a top 10 at least.

They have an easy weekend with a nice run of teams the following week with CTX, Centenary, and Harden Simons.
Well, stitches, you do your part.

6IP is a nice outing, especially in a mid-week, non-conference game.  He may have been up against a strict pitch count, too.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 20, 2013, 10:33:31 AM
ABCA polls give more love to the West than D3Baseball polls. Does D3 have any biases towards other regions?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 20, 2013, 12:02:39 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 20, 2013, 10:33:31 AM
ABCA polls give more love to the West than D3Baseball polls. Does D3 have any biases towards other regions?
Or is it because the West and the South are the first teams to play each season?

Several teams in the West and South will have played half of their season after this weekend.

The USA South usually finishes its tournament almost 4 weeks ahead of the selection day.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 20, 2013, 01:08:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 20, 2013, 12:02:39 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 20, 2013, 10:33:31 AM
ABCA polls give more love to the West than D3Baseball polls. Does D3 have any biases towards other regions?
Or is it because the West and the South are the first teams to play each season?

Several teams in the West and South will have played half of their season after this weekend.

The USA South usually finishes its tournament almost 4 weeks ahead of the selection day.
I am sure that is part of it. Without teams playing games it is really hard to have information to rank them in the TOP 25. Alot it seems to be on returning players, Team history and reputation and prior years success as opposed to some data based decisions. Maybe that is why ABCA waits before it publishes its poll after the Preseaon poll. Maybe weekly polls dont start until Mid March. Before that Biweekly polls.

Maybe March 1 should be standard start date for all teams. That would help with the big gaps with the West/South and everyone else. I know D1 has a later start date that DIII.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 20, 2013, 01:54:27 PM
Another big difference is that with an early start there is less bunching of games. In the ASC there is no need to develop more than 4 starters since the schedule generally is for one game on Weds against a non-confernce team followed by 3 weekend confernce games (one on friday and double header on Sat.).  This is in effect for most of March and April. In the north east they play more games during the week since they have to. Thus they have to develop more pitchers.  Thus by tournament time the ASC is forced into using pitchers that have not seen alot of mound time. That hurts them IMO. (Not only ASC but most southern and southwest conferences)

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 20, 2013, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 20, 2013, 01:54:27 PM
Another big difference is that with an early start there is less bunching of games. In the ASC there is no need to develop more than 4 starters since the schedule generally is for one game on Weds against a non-confernce team followed by 3 weekend confernce games (one on friday and double header on Sat.).  This is in effect for most of March and April. In the north east they play more games during the week since they have to. Thus they have to develop more pitchers.  Thus by tournament time the ASC is forced into using pitchers that have not seen alot of mound time. That hurts them IMO. (Not only ASC but most southern and southwest conferences)

TexasBB
I believe a deep experienced pitching staff is the real difference why you see Teams from the West get close to the National Championship get close but seem to be a 1/2 pitchers away from winning the whole thing. Very true with Chapman who lost their #1 in 2009 and 2011.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 20, 2013, 04:52:40 PM
D1 has a unified start date and you have all of the Northern teams wanting to have a staggered start.  ::) No matter what you do someone is going to be unhappy. There is also a lot of talk (by Northern teams) about moving the start date back even further, which impacts the draft and CWS, etc, etc. D3 baseball is actually very unique in college ball where Northern teams are actually more competitive at the CWS level than Southern teams which dominate D1 ball. So maybe the system is not so bad after all....depending on your perspective. ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 20, 2013, 09:12:44 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 20, 2013, 04:52:40 PM
D1 has a unified start date and you have all of the Northern teams wanting to have a staggered start.  ::) No matter what you do someone is going to be unhappy. There is also a lot of talk (by Northern teams) about moving the start date back even further, which impacts the draft and CWS, etc, etc. D3 baseball is actually very unique in college ball where Northern teams are actually more competitive at the CWS level than Southern teams which dominate D1 ball. So maybe the system is not so bad after all....depending on your perspective. ;)
Like anything in life you never will make everyone happy. Some complained about the bat changes but it has made it a better game since the change. Next year ALL D3 games will count in the primary criteria for Pool B/C bids and some will not be happy about that change. But it will also be a good thing in my opinion. So a uniform start date could also be a good thing. Does not seem to hurt DI baseball at all IMO. Too me it makes no sense that some teams in the West are finishing playing 2-4 weeks before the regional starts and this has hurt them in my opinion. Change is good thing.

IF the regional stated tomorrow these are my picks. Still lots of baseball yet but I wanted to warm up the crystal ball.

1) Linfield
2) Trinity-Texas
3) Cal Lutheran
4) Pomona-Pitzer
5) George Fox
6) Texas-Tyler
WINNER: Linfield  ;D

On the bubble Texas-Lutheran  ???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 20, 2013, 10:07:39 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 20, 2013, 04:52:40 PM
D1 has a unified start date and you have all of the Northern teams wanting to have a staggered start.  ::) No matter what you do someone is going to be unhappy. There is also a lot of talk (by Northern teams) about moving the start date back even further, which impacts the draft and CWS, etc, etc. D3 baseball is actually very unique in college ball where Northern teams are actually more competitive at the CWS level than Southern teams which dominate D1 ball. So maybe the system is not so bad after all....depending on your perspective. ;)
I think that is because a lot of northern "low D-1/wannabe-never could D-1" talent stays home and realistically goes to college in D-3 and grows up, rather than chasing the dream during the 18-22 y/o time frame by going JUCO, etc., hoping to be picked up in the Draft or by a D-1.

Look at the power conferences in the northern latitudes.

LEC -- 8 public schools.
SUNYAC -- 7 public schools, but Cortland is the beast!
NJAC -  what a power they are!
Salisbury (State) MD to be joined by CNU in the Capital AC next year.
WIAC -- need I elaborate?

And that is only a partial list.

Even the MASCAC has had teams that make noise.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 21, 2013, 09:55:06 AM
In the for what it is worth category, UTT beat the #2 ranked NAIA team, LSU-Shreveport, in Shreveport last night 5-4. Playing NAIA teams, even those nationally ranked, are not counted in evaluating the strength of schedule of a DIV III team. Perhaps this should change as a lot of D-III teams in Texas play NAIA schools simply due to the distance issues. Keep in mind NAIA schools offer scholarships and therefore, in theory, attract better and more baseball players. LSU-Shreveport has already played 30 games this season as they do not have the limitations on schedule or # of games that D-III schools have. So in order to beat such a team, a D-III team should receive some recognition.

Texas BB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2013, 10:05:57 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 21, 2013, 09:55:06 AM
In the for what it is worth category, UTT beat the #2 ranked NAIA team, LSU-Shreveport, in Shreveport last night 5-4. Playing NAIA teams, even those nationally ranked, are not counted in evaluating the strength of schedule of a DIV III team. Perhaps this should change as a lot of D-III teams in Texas play NAIA schools simply due to the distance issues. Keep in mind NAIA schools offer scholarships and therefore, in theory, attract better and more baseball players. LSU-Shreveport has already played 30 games this season as they do not have the limitations on schedule or # of games that D-III schools have. So in order to beat such a team, a D-III team should receive some recognition.

Texas BB
Playing NAIA teams is against the philosophy of D-III.  That has been determined by the presidents of the member institutions and repetitively affirmed over the last 40 years of D-III.

We just happen to be one of the areas where there are limited numbers of D-III opponents, and NAIA schools can fill the void.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 21, 2013, 11:24:15 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 21, 2013, 09:55:06 AM
Keep in mind NAIA schools offer scholarships and therefore, in theory, attract better and more baseball players. LSU-Shreveport has already played 30 games this season as they do not have the limitations on schedule or # of games that D-III schools have. So in order to beat such a team, a D-III team should receive some recognition.
Texas BB

Texas, this is not necessarily 100% true, I think you will find that the top DIII programs consistently recruit borderline (and sometimes not borderline) D1 players who get as much academic money as they would/did get athletic money. There could be a whole separate thread on this but the top DIII programs could beat many of the lower level D1 programs in the country. These mid week games for the other programs may not be throwing their top arms also. So it is really apples to oranges.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 21, 2013, 11:49:21 AM
Texas, this is not necessarily 100% true, I think you will find that the top DIII programs consistently recruit borderline (and sometimes not borderline) D1 players who get as much academic money as they would/did get athletic money. There could be a whole separate thread on this but the top DIII programs could beat many of the lower level D1 programs in the country. These mid week games for the other programs may not be throwing their top arms also. So it is really apples to oranges.
[/quote]

It was a midweek game for UTT as well and they did not throw their top arms. So from that perspective it is not an apples and oranges comparison.  Top level NAIA schools are better than low level D-I and probably on par with upper level D-II.  The games "count" from a total # of games played perspective but are not counted when evaluating strength of schedule.  So DIV III does not completely ignore these games since you can't go over the 40 game limit by playing a bunch of extra games against NAIA oppoenets. You just don't get any credit when you beat a top level NAIA team or detriment by loosing to a low level NAIA team.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Piobark on March 21, 2013, 11:54:30 AM
Some of the NWC schools also have the NAIA teams on their schedules due to a lack of opponents and/or a desire to contain travel costs. The games against Corban, Concordia (Portland) and Lewis and Clark State add diversity to the schedule as well as some quality opponents.

Not counting those games will probably result in the better of these schools adding more mid week "non-conference" games against each other which is less than desirable in my opinion.

The other option would be to move to a 4 games against conference opponents schedule which would make for some very long weekends and potentially more time away from class. Either you play double headers Saturday and Sunday or you play Friday, Saturday (2) and Sunday - which would mean missing class Thursday and Friday for the longer bus trips.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 21, 2013, 01:20:30 PM
SCIAC teams play NAIA and DII schools to fill out their schedule along with  DIII other region schools that travel to SoCal or Arizona. I do not believe you will ever see non DIII games count as part of the Primary Criteria for picking Pool B/C bids.

As everyone knows starting in 2014 ALL D3 games will count towards the Primary Criteria. How will this impact games with non DIII programs. Less, more or the same. I also believe that 70% of game must be In Region DIII games to be playoff eligible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 21, 2013, 01:34:49 PM
What all of this discussion shows, is that the Western Region teams have been forced to play a schedule that includes non D-III oppoenents due to distance and the lack of D-III schools. The east does not have that problem as the distances between D-III schools is relatively short and their are plenty of them.  So the question is what can be done to take into account the werstenr regions distance issues? Right now this issue is simply being brushed aside as there are no exceptions. Is that the right answer?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Piobark on March 21, 2013, 01:39:56 PM
Here's a suggestion - only count the last 30 DIII games played. If teams need to add NAIA schools to fill out their pre conference game schedule, then those games won't matter. The same is true for the Northern schools coming down to play the warm weather schools - the first ten games on their schedule wouldn't count either, lessening the impact of a potentially difficult road trip.

Thirty isn't a magic number - could be 35 - but the idea would be that teams could have a pre-season warmup that doesn't count - and then a games count period which would be conference games or nearly all conference games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on March 21, 2013, 01:50:23 PM
The west has to be considered the bastard stepchild of D3. The geography of the region (PNW, SoCal and Texas) is greater than 5 of the east coast regions combined. The geography creates necessity on several fronts; scheduling is one. The impact is felt on a number of fronts which always makes comparison to other teams and regions difficult.

There are teams (example: Sul Ross) that have very long bus trips to play games. Each of the areas in the west have there respective conferences to play; without mid-week non-confernece games it is either an NAIA, D2 or a protracted trip to play a game.

I really question whether those that make the rules understand the difficulty that exists because of geography.


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on March 21, 2013, 01:57:16 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 21, 2013, 01:34:49 PM
What all of this discussion shows, is that the Western Region teams have been forced to play a schedule that includes non D-III oppoenents due to distance and the lack of D-III schools. The east does not have that problem as the distances between D-III schools is relatively short and their are plenty of them.  So the question is what can be done to take into account the werstenr regions distance issues? Right now this issue is simply being brushed aside as there are no exceptions. Is that the right answer?
I contacted several coaches, including four from the West, for an upcoming column. The four West coaches – one each from the SCIAC and ASC, two from the NWC – were in favor of the rule change to varying degrees.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on March 21, 2013, 06:06:00 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 21, 2013, 09:55:06 AM
In the for what it is worth category, UTT beat the #2 ranked NAIA team, LSU-Shreveport, in Shreveport last night 5-4. Playing NAIA teams, even those nationally ranked, are not counted in evaluating the strength of schedule of a DIV III team. Perhaps this should change as a lot of D-III teams in Texas play NAIA schools simply due to the distance issues. Keep in mind NAIA schools offer scholarships and therefore, in theory, attract better and more baseball players. LSU-Shreveport has already played 30 games this season as they do not have the limitations on schedule or # of games that D-III schools have. So in order to beat such a team, a D-III team should receive some recognition.

Texas BB

They also beat the #5 NAIA team (Rogers State) 3-1 on opening day.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 21, 2013, 06:26:23 PM
Quote from: Patriotfan87 on March 21, 2013, 06:06:00 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 21, 2013, 09:55:06 AM
In the for what it is worth category, UTT beat the #2 ranked NAIA team, LSU-Shreveport, in Shreveport last night 5-4. Playing NAIA teams, even those nationally ranked, are not counted in evaluating the strength of schedule of a DIV III team. Perhaps this should change as a lot of D-III teams in Texas play NAIA schools simply due to the distance issues. Keep in mind NAIA schools offer scholarships and therefore, in theory, attract better and more baseball players. LSU-Shreveport has already played 30 games this season as they do not have the limitations on schedule or # of games that D-III schools have. So in order to beat such a team, a D-III team should receive some recognition.

Texas BB

They also beat the #5 NAIA team (Rogers State) 3-1 on opening day.
While it is a good win for the program...REMEMBER most NAIA teams and DII teams will be having a lot of non starters playing as well as not facing any of their top pitchers. Most top D2 and NAIA programs playing with their starters and top pitchers will win most of the time.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on March 21, 2013, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 21, 2013, 06:26:23 PM
REMEMBER most NAIA teams and DII teams will be having a lot of non starters playing as well as not facing any of their top pitchers. Most top D2 and NAIA programs playing with their starters and top pitchers will win most of the time.
No need to conjecture when we can just check.
Looking at their box score, here is the number of starts each player in the line-up has had thus far this season for LSU-S (out of 30), in the order of their lineup: 17 (catcher), 30, 30, 23, 16, 19, 26, 29, 2 (DH). 
So it seems only their 9 hole DH isn't a normal starter (one of their pinch hitters seems to be their usual DH).
On the mound, both teams went with a pitch by committee approach.  LSU-S seems to have started one of their regular starters (their regular midweek guy I'm guessing), as he's leading the team in GS (7).  The other 5 guys who saw action all pitch fairly regularly (there are 3 guys on their roster with 7.1 IP or fewer, none of them got in). 
Who would win on a Friday?  Unclear.  But it seems to bode well in terms of depth of arms to be able to hold a top NAIA school starting 8 of their regular position players to 4 runs.   
Good win.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on March 21, 2013, 07:12:31 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on March 21, 2013, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 21, 2013, 06:26:23 PM
REMEMBER most NAIA teams and DII teams will be having a lot of non starters playing as well as not facing any of their top pitchers. Most top D2 and NAIA programs playing with their starters and top pitchers will win most of the time.
No need to conjecture when we can just check.
Looking at their box score, here is the number of starts each player in the line-up has had thus far this season for LSU-S (out of 30), in the order of their lineup: 17 (catcher), 30, 30, 23, 16, 19, 26, 29, 2 (DH). 
So it seems only their 9 hole DH isn't a normal starter (one of their pinch hitters seems to be their usual DH).
On the mound, both teams went with a pitch by committee approach.  LSU-S seems to have started one of their regular starters (their regular midweek guy I'm guessing), as he's leading the team in GS (7).  The other 5 guys who saw action all pitch fairly regularly (there are 3 guys on their roster with 7.1 IP or fewer, none of them got in). 
Who would win on a Friday?  Unclear.  But it seems to bode well in terms of depth of arms to be able to hold a top NAIA school starting 8 of their regular position players to 4 runs.   
Good win.

Good research/analysis/breakdown.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on March 21, 2013, 07:20:34 PM
It should also be noted that they are number 2 in the pre-season poll.  The first in-season poll doesn't come out until the 25th of this month.  This seems to be strongly a function of their team last year when they were ranked number 1 most of the year and ended up 3rd in the final poll.  This year, they are 3rd in their conference (conference record as well as overall).  They're still a good team though, perhaps not great.

Waiting until teams have played a bunch of games before trying to rank them...seems to make some sense.  Though seeing as at least one person waited until Oxy was swept by Cal Lu before ranking them confirms that data is only helpful if you look at it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 21, 2013, 09:26:13 PM
Polls in February to mid March for DIII really have a pre-season flavor to them until most teams have 10 games under their belts.

April weekly polls will the ones the really start meaning something.

Polls should look at

Did they beat the teams they should?

Are they beating the good to great teams?

Who are they playing and beating (Occidental is a great example)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: LongBallGone on March 22, 2013, 12:57:48 PM
Perhaps, one of you seasoned veterans of D3 Baseball could fill me in on this, but I'm just curious what are the chances, if any, that a West-region team could get shipped to another Regional this year if there are more than 6 qualified teams? I know last year they decided to ship Coe and St. Johns to the West and ultimately only 4 West-region schools made Regionals. Last year, beyond the conference champions, there weren't very many West teams that looked qualified based on their resumes so those moves seemed justifiable. However, this year it seems like the opposite is true. Right now there are about 8-9 teams that have shown they deserve to be in the discussion. If that holds true by the end of the season, do those 2-3 teams left out of the Top 6 have a chance elsewhere?

Interesting predicament. Any insight from you guys who are more experienced with D3 baseball would be appreciated.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on March 22, 2013, 01:46:50 PM
Quote from: LongBallGone on March 22, 2013, 12:57:48 PM
Perhaps, one of you seasoned veterans of D3 Baseball could fill me in on this, but I'm just curious what are the chances, if any, that a West-region team could get shipped to another Regional this year if there are more than 6 qualified teams? I know last year they decided to ship Coe and St. Johns to the West and ultimately only 4 West-region schools made Regionals. Last year, beyond the conference champions, there weren't very many West teams that looked qualified based on their resumes so those moves seemed justifiable. However, this year it seems like the opposite is true. Right now there are about 8-9 teams that have shown they deserve to be in the discussion. If that holds true by the end of the season, do those 2-3 teams left out of the Top 6 have a chance elsewhere?

Interesting predicament. Any insight from you guys who are more experienced with D3 baseball would be appreciated.
The field is selected for it's bracketed. If there are more than six West Region teams in the field, they could be shipped to another regional. If there are eight West teams, there's also a decent chance that Concordia would host eight teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on March 22, 2013, 01:49:04 PM
LongBall

It is statistically unlikely; generally with the winner from the NWC, SCAIC, ASC and now the SCAC making up the core four, you would need more than 2 teams to earn a Pool C bid for there to be a need to ship a team out. It has happened, but by the numbers it is unlikely to occur.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 22, 2013, 03:17:58 PM
Teams have been shipped out of the West region to play in the NCAA Regional playoffs. It has happen in prior years for the West. A few years back Linfield was sent to another region. Both Chapman and Linfield made it to Appleton, WI in the NCAA DIII Championship round. Both from the West Region.

I really doubt the West Region will host 8 teams. The past few years it has been a 6 team regional. Also last year only ?  teams from the West Region made it to the regional playoffs and were in the West Regional. ?? teams from outside the West Region were shipped to the West Regional to play. In 2013 there are 38 teams in the West Region. 37 are elgibile to play in the Regional playoffs.

I think the number of teams in the West Regional is based upon the number of teams in the Region and the ACCESS RATIO.

In 2013 I also do not think it is likely more than 6 teams from the West will make the regional playoffs

Someone more informed than me will have to explain the ACCESS RATIO.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 22, 2013, 03:57:20 PM
L1 Compute to Data Access Ratio
Metric Description
This metric measures the computational density of an application, or how many computations it is performing on average for each piece of data loaded. Use this metric to judge suitability of an application for running on the Intel MIC architecture. Applications that perform well on the Intel MIC architecture should be vectorized, and ideally be able to perform multiple operations on the same pieces of data (or same cachelines). The L1 ratio calculates an average of the number of vectorized operations that occur for each L1 cache access.

Possible Issues
Most codes that run well on the Intel MIC architecture should be able to achieve a ratio of computation to L1 access that is greater than or equal to their Vectorization Intensity. This is similar to a 1:1 ratio - one data access for one computation - except that by vectorizing each computation should be operating on multiple elements at once. An application that cannot achieve a ratio above this threshold may not be computationally dense enough to fully utilize the Intel MIC architecture.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2013, 04:57:38 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 22, 2013, 03:17:58 PM
Teams have been shipped out of the West region to play in the NCAA Regional playoffs. It has happen in prior years for the West. A few years back Linfield was sent to another region. Both Chapman and Linfield made it to Appleton, WI in the NCAA DIII Championship round. Both from the West Region.

I really doubt the West Region will host 8 teams. The past few years it has been a 6 team regional. Also last year only ?  teams from the West Region made it to the regional playoffs and were in the West Regional. ?? teams from outside the West Region were shipped to the West Regional to play. In 2013 there are 38 teams in the West Region. 37 are elgibile to play in the Regional playoffs.

I think the number of teams in the West Regional is based upon the number of teams in the Region and the ACCESS RATIO.In 2013 I also do not think it is likely more than 6 teams from the West will make the regional playoffs

Someone more informed than me will have to explain the ACCESS RATIO.
Respectfully no.

The number of teams in the Regional is probably a function of local need (500-mile radius, etc.)

The ACCESS Ratio is what determines the number of bids for a sport.

It is the number of programs that offer the sport divided by 6.5 to give the number of bids to provide in that Championship.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on March 23, 2013, 02:38:03 AM
UT Tyler downs ETBU 15-2. Hoping the rain holds off tomorrow long enough to finish the series.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 23, 2013, 11:18:33 PM
Just checked scores and Linfield is officially back sweeping Witworth today. They will be a force to be reckoned with in the West. 

Trinity swept Rockford, however IMO they could have fielded their JV team and beaten them, this is not the caliber teams TU needs to be facing. Frankly this series means very little other than they did what they should have done, and were able to get some work in with some other pitchers (who looked good). Friday night was deplorable with 7 errors and giving up 6 runs..... I see that D3 baseball had something about making a statement for the top spot. This is my team, but give me a break..... playing a team like this is a waste of the schedule. I realize that filling a schedule is difficult, in the West but please bring in some quality opponents. You would think that some of the high quality teams from the east would relish the opportunity to come to Texas and fill in their schedule with some quality opponents, but Rockford? Sorry I am not impressed.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on March 24, 2013, 12:45:05 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 23, 2013, 11:18:33 PM
Just checked scores and Linfield is officially back sweeping Witworth today. They will be a force to be reckoned with in the West. 


Great day for the 'Cats!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on March 24, 2013, 12:12:10 PM
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on March 16, 2013, 12:29:55 PM
It's really too early to be making any kind of rankings, but here's what my West rankings would look like if I had to pull the trigger today:

1. Linfield: 12-3 -  The top of their rotation is only rivaled by UT Tyler's, but I think Linfield has more depth. They play good D and have a lot of guys that can swing the stick.
2. Trinity: 16-4 - They're going to beat themselves here and there, but Scannell has let a lot of guys see action already this year. They'll be battle tested and what Hirschberg is doing at the plate is just silly.
3. UT Tyler: 15-5 - Have flopped them w/ Cal Lu no less than 5x b/c I think SCIAC might be stronger conference this year. If they don't sweep UTD today they should move down, but I like their rotation. They always seem to get exploited during tournament play, though.
4. Cal Lutheran: 11-5-1 - They've won every series against the "better" teams in their conference. Save for La Verne it only gets easier during the 2nd half of their season.
5. George Fox: 12-5 - They looked great in the AZ Desert Classic, but they have 9 games left w/  Whitworth, Pac Lu & Linfield. Long road ahead.
6. Pomona : 14-4 - Interesting to see how today's DH with Chapman goes, but they feel like the 2nd best team in the SCIAC this year.

7-13 is where it starts to get a little muddy.

ASC:
UT Dallas - I think they can beat anyone with Derek Dallas on the bump, but they're just above average after him. 0-4 in the Desert Classic against the NWC/SCIAC, but have taken 5 of 7 from the top two teams in the ASC West.
Texas Lutheran - They're really missing Kellen McGriff who was 5-1 on the bump last year, but it may be a blessing in disguise as other guys Snider/Harwell have had to log innings. They play great D, but I just dunno if they can beat anyone if it comes to a slug fest.
Concordia - They've struggled to replace some guys from the top of their rotation last year, seem to be a bit weaker at the plate, have already matched their loss total from last year, lost all 4 in the Desert classic and got swept by UTD. I still wouldn't be surprised if they won the ASC tournament.

NWC:
Pac Lutheran - Konopaski,, Beatty, & Lubking have all looked great on the bump. We'll know a lot more once they square off against Linfield and George Fox.
Whitworth - They've struggled on the road thus far this year, but they did take 2 of 3 from Cal Lu to open their season. Did they get hot at the right time last year? Probably -- but what I like about them is they seem to sweep their series' against the 'weaker' teams. Those games add up.

SCIAC:
Chapman - I think they're young. I think they make too many mistakes and I don't think they're good enough on the bump, but I don't ever count out Tereschuk and staff.
La Verne - They've beaten Linfield, Kean and Ithaca, but dropping 2 of 3 to Chapman and losing to CMS in conference play doesn't bode well with Pomona and Cal Lu still lurking later in the season.

JSG

I don't think my top 6 west teams did much to change their standings.

1. Linfield: 17-3 - I don't think there's any arguing that they're one of the top teams in the country right now. The sophomores at the top of their rotation have been fantastic and the top of their order is as ruthless as any.
2. Trinity: 23-4 - A mid-week game against Concordia and then a series with a very good Centenary team that should tell us a lot more about this team. They're building some solid depth on the bump, but D can be quite porous at times.
3. UT Tyler: 15-5 - Aside from Centenary two weekends from now, not a lot of true tests left. Top 3 + closer seem to be the real deal. Kevan House having a great season at the plate.
4. Cal Lutheran: 14-6-1 - An awful first IP led to a weekend loss against a Wisc-Superior team that probably isn't very strong. They've taken care of business in the SCIAC so far, but I question their depth on the bump come tourney time.
5. George Fox: 16-6 - This team seems to struggle a bit on the road, dropping one to an 8-13 Whitman team and needing 10 IP to survive another. Their schedule doesn't get any easier.
6. Pomona : 17-6 - Looking forward to their series' with La Verne and Linfield. Those 6 games will likely determine whether or not they deserve to be in a regional. The Sagehends play in a hitter-friendly park, but Rosenbaum & Gentili have been great at the plate. Rosenbaum is also 5-0 on the bump.

ASC:
Texas Lutheran - At 20-7 the Bulldogs are probably on the outside looking in right now, but it looks like they might have SP Kellen McGriff back and could be 26-7 going into their tough final stretch before the ASC tournament.
Both UTD and Concordia are playing .500 baseball now and seem to lack the depth on the mound to survive tournament play. I'm looking forward to the Hardin-Simmons/Chapman series.

NWC:
Pac Lutheran dropped 2 to Puget Sound this weekend (so far) and Whitworth has done the same against Linfield. I think the NWC is a 2-horse race from this point on unless Whitworth gets really, really hot down the stretch again this year.

SCIAC:
Chapman isn't a bad team by any stretch of the imagination, but they've dropped series to Trinity, Cal Lu and Pomona. It would be a huge uphill battle, but if they won 11 of their final 12 they might have an outside shot w/ help from their SOS.
La Verne: They have some nice wins this year, but after dropping 2 of 3 to Chapman and with Pomona and Cal Lu still on the schedule it won't be an easy road.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 24, 2013, 07:11:24 PM
How does Trinity's loss to 2-10 Rockford impact your view? As well as George Fox's loss to Whitman (losing the series)?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on March 24, 2013, 08:55:10 PM
Quote from: Spence on March 24, 2013, 07:11:24 PM
How does Trinity's loss to 2-10 Rockford impact your view? As well as George Fox's loss to Whitman (losing the series)?

I'll preface with how hard this is to do without watching more games live; however, I guess I'd probably bump Pomona over George Fox. I still think GFU is the 2nd best team in the NWC, albeit now with a slimmer chance to snag a pool C bid.

Maybe I'd elevate UT Tyler over Trinity, but I doubt it. I know the rub on TU is their cupcake schedule, but I'm not going to get alarmist over losing to a pitcher who's been very good in 2 of his 3 starts this year. Similar thing happened to TLU this weekend dropping a 1-0 game to Wheaton (Ill)'s Kauffman.

Muscarello has to be more consistent fielding the baseball at SS, but I love that they have 8 guys with over 15.0 IP already. For me, it will be interesting to see how that plays out in the tournament format.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 24, 2013, 09:31:30 PM
I am with JSG, TU ran into a good pitching performance, it happens. They will be one of the 6 in the regional and it means little whether they are 1, 2 or 3 seed. I like how they are working their pitching staff, their number 2 is struggling right now, but he will get it together. They supposedly have two injured pitchers coming back this week so they will have even more depth. I have some other reservations that I am not going to put on a public BB.

I think they are a 5-10 team nationally, certainly not the best team in the country IMO. All the other teams fell away from them last week, we will see this week. They have three solid games this week, lets see how they do.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 24, 2013, 10:52:06 PM
March 24, 2013 CDD3 Top 6

1) Linfield 17-3
2) Texas-Trinity 23-5  (Yea I know they lost 2/3 to Centenary which can not be in 2013 NCAA playoffs)  ??? ??? ???
3) Texas-Tyler (20-6)
4) Texas Lutheran(20-7)
5) Cal Lutheran 14-6-1
6) Pomona Pitzer 17-6

Pool A - Linfield, Texas-Trinity, Texas-Tyler, Cal Lutheran
Pool C - Pomona Pitzer, Texas Lutheran

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 25, 2013, 03:22:38 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 24, 2013, 10:52:06 PM
March 24, 2013 CDD3 Top 6

1) Linfield 17-3
2) Texas-Trinity 23-5  (Yea I know they lost 2/3 to Centenary which can not be in 2013 NCAA playoffs)  ??? ??? ???
3) Texas-Tyler (20-6)
4) Texas Lutheran(20-7)
5) Cal Lutheran 14-6-1
6) Pomona Pitzer 17-6

Pool A - Linfield, Texas-Trinity, Texas-Tyler, Cal Lutheran
Pool C - Pomona Pitzer, Texas Lutheran

I think this looks right, as of today.  Lots of big series upcoming in NWC though, with Linfield yet to play UPS (who just swept PLU), PLU and finally G Fox second to last weekend of conference.  Plus, don't forget Linfield is coming down to play three against Pomona Pitzer, and a single game against La Verne.  G. Fox is only two games back in conference standings, and totally in the hunt.  Fox has been batting at a very high level for most of the season, but were held to a .215 team BA this past weekend.  I still believe NWC is positioned to send two squads to regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 25, 2013, 04:15:46 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on March 25, 2013, 03:22:38 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 24, 2013, 10:52:06 PM
March 24, 2013 CDD3 Top 6

1) Linfield 17-3
2) Texas-Trinity 23-5  (Yea I know they lost 2/3 to Centenary which can not be in 2013 NCAA playoffs)  ??? ??? ???
3) Texas-Tyler (20-6)
4) Texas Lutheran(20-7)
5) Cal Lutheran 14-6-1
6) Pomona Pitzer 17-6

Pool A - Linfield, Texas-Trinity, Texas-Tyler, Cal Lutheran
Pool C - Pomona Pitzer, Texas Lutheran

I think this looks right, as of today.  Lots of big series upcoming in NWC though, with Linfield yet to play UPS (who just swept PLU), PLU and finally G Fox second to last weekend of conference.  Plus, don't forget Linfield is coming down to play three against Pomona Pitzer, and a single game against La Verne.  G. Fox is only two games back in conference standings, and totally in the hunt.  Fox has been batting at a very high level for most of the season, but were held to a .215 team BA this past weekend.  I still believe NWC is positioned to send two squads to regional.
Historically the NWC has not sent 2 teams to the Regionals BUT maybe this is a new year. It will really depends on the in region record for the #2 team plus the famous SOS.

Upset winners in the ASC, or SCIAC tournament for the Pool A bid can really make a mess for Pool C bids.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: LongBallGone on March 27, 2013, 12:00:23 AM
My take on the West's Top Teams thus far:

1) Linfield (18-3) - Continues to play well in all phases of the game. Still has some big weekends ahead that feature Pacific Lutheran, George Fox, and a trip south to play Pomona-Pitzer and La Verne.

2) Trinity (24-5) - Next four games (Concordia, Centenary, Hardin Simmons) present them with a great opportunity to state their case for being the West's top team. Hirschberg's numbers are fantastic and I like that their pitching staff has 8 guys who've thrown 15+ innings (should pay off come Regionals)

3) UT-Tyler (21-6) - Lineup has cooled off some, but the pitching staff still boasts an impressive 2.76 ERA thanks to a pair of solid front end starters in Cotton and Marah. However, I'm not too impressed by their schedule and IMO they only have one series left against a legitimate ball club (Centenary)

4) Cal Lutheran (16-6-1) - Has won every series thus far in the tough SCIAC and has a slight edge on NWC opponents after fairing 3-2-1 against Fox and Whitworth. Team batting average is terrific (.345) led by Nick Boggan whose numbers are very similar to Hirschberg's from TU

5) Pomona-Pitzer (17-6) - Only conference series lost was to Cal Lu and they swept  NWC opponents Pacific and Whitworth by going 4-0. Still have La Verne left on the schedule and Linfield. Rosenbaum may be the best freshmen in the West as well.

6) George Fox (16-6) - Dropped 2 to Whitman last weekend and should have got swept had the Missionaries not blown a 9th inning lead. 2nd half of the conference schedule features all the top teams, besides them, so we'll quickly learn if they are worthy of a trip to Austin.

7) Texas Lutheran (20-7) - Record against the more quality opponents isn't eye-opening thus, but their last 7 games include TU, Concordia, and Hardin-Simmons which will be crucial for them. Basically flipped a coin between them and Fox

8) La Verne (14-7) - Have a couple nice wins against Linfield and Kean, but need a good showing against Cal Lu and Pomona to boost their resume.

Others on the outside looking in:

Texas-Dallas (14-14), Chapman (11-12), Concordia (14-15), Pacific Lutheran (13-9), Hardin-Simmons (15-10) - All need to rattle off a lot of wins over the next month or so in order to make a strong case for a Pool C bid

Or one of those ASC or SCIAC teams could just throw off everything if they win their conference tournament!  ;D
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on March 27, 2013, 01:05:56 AM
Trinity beats Concordia 8-2.  Over their past 7 games, TU is 6-1 and didn't throw their #1.  Every start but one was quality.
While Hirshberg finally cooled off, it is just a question of time before others contribute.
Clements, for instance, is too good with the bat to be hitting below .240 for a season. 
More and better innings from a number of young pitchers, the continued maturation of the freshman, and better defense especially from Muscarello bodes well especially if they finally get the AB's from all 9 in the line up which approach the ability of every hitter.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 27, 2013, 01:45:23 AM
Quote from: LongBallGone on March 27, 2013, 12:00:23 AM
My take on the West's Top Teams thus far:

1) Linfield (18-3) - Continues to play well in all phases of the game. Still has some big weekends ahead that feature Pacific Lutheran, George Fox, and a trip south to play Pomona-Pitzer and La Verne.

2) Trinity (24-5) - Next four games (Concordia, Centenary, Hardin Simmons) present them with a great opportunity to state their case for being the West’s top team. Hirschberg’s numbers are fantastic and I like that their pitching staff has 8 guys who’ve thrown 15+ innings (should pay off come Regionals)

3) UT-Tyler (21-6) - Lineup has cooled off some, but the pitching staff still boasts an impressive 2.76 ERA thanks to a pair of solid front end starters in Cotton and Marah. However, I’m not too impressed by their schedule and IMO they only have one series left against a legitimate ball club (Centenary)

4) Cal Lutheran (16-6-1) - Has won every series thus far in the tough SCIAC and has a slight edge on NWC opponents after fairing 3-2-1 against Fox and Whitworth. Team batting average is terrific (.345) led by Nick Boggan whose numbers are very similar to Hirschberg’s from TU

5) Pomona-Pitzer (17-6) - Only conference series lost was to Cal Lu and they swept  NWC opponents Pacific and Whitworth by going 4-0. Still have La Verne left on the schedule and Linfield. Rosenbaum may be the best freshmen in the West as well.

6) George Fox (16-6) - Dropped 2 to Whitman last weekend and should have got swept had the Missionaries not blown a 9th inning lead. 2nd half of the conference schedule features all the top teams, besides them, so we’ll quickly learn if they are worthy of a trip to Austin.

7) Texas Lutheran (20-7) - Record against the more quality opponents isn’t eye-opening thus, but their last 7 games include TU, Concordia, and Hardin-Simmons which will be crucial for them. Basically flipped a coin between them and Fox

8) La Verne (14-7) - Have a couple nice wins against Linfield and Kean, but need a good showing against Cal Lu and Pomona to boost their resume.

Others on the outside looking in:

Texas-Dallas (14-14), Chapman (11-12), Concordia (14-15), Pacific Lutheran (13-9), Hardin-Simmons (15-10) - All need to rattle off a lot of wins over the next month or so in order to make a strong case for a Pool C bid

Or one of those ASC or SCIAC teams could just throw off everything if they win their conference tournament!  ;D
Nice Job !
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 27, 2013, 01:48:36 AM
It would be nice of the NWC joined the rest of the world with a conference tourney to decide Pool A bid. Cost and weather may be factors of why they dont.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 27, 2013, 08:34:54 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 27, 2013, 01:48:36 AM
It would be nice of the NWC joined the rest of the world with a conference tourney to decide Pool A bid. Cost and weather may be factors of why they dont.

I don't know if a NWC tourney is happening soon, although I don't believe cost or weather is the concern.  On one hand, its nice to reward the team who comes out on top after a 24 game conference schedule, however, a tourney between let's say the top 4 teams after conference play sure makes things exciting as teams battle for one of those spots.

On an unrelated note, I saw a headline today on MLB.com that Tim McCarver has announced that 2013 WILL BE HIS LAST SEASON ON FOX BASEBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!  I can turn off the mute button for the 2014 post season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2013, 09:21:42 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on March 27, 2013, 08:34:54 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 27, 2013, 01:48:36 AM
It would be nice of the NWC joined the rest of the world with a conference tourney to decide Pool A bid. Cost and weather may be factors of why they dont.

I don't know if a NWC tourney is happening soon, although I don't believe cost or weather is the concern.  On one hand, its nice to reward the team who comes out on top after a 24 game conference schedule, however, a tourney between let's say the top 4 teams after conference play sure makes things exciting as teams battle for one of those spots.

On an unrelated note, I saw a headline today on MLB.com that Tim McCarver has announced that 2013 WILL BE HIS LAST SEASON ON FOX BASEBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!  I can turn off the mute button for the 2014 post season.
I would be careful about making such a brash statement.

Considering the state of broadcast journalism in 2013, who was the last color announcer that you heard who did not make inane statements?   :)   ???    :o   ::)    ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 29, 2013, 11:29:58 AM
Trinity has lost 3 of 4 to Centenary. should they be ranked high in the polls. Centenary has 7 losses 6 by 1 run.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on March 29, 2013, 12:04:29 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 27, 2013, 01:48:36 AM
It would be nice of the NWC joined the rest of the world with a conference tourney to decide Pool A bid. Cost and weather may be factors of why they dont.

I've never been a fan of conference tournaments and glad the NWC baseball teams have resisted.  The Pool A bid should go to the team who has shown over the entirety of the conference season that they're the best club from start to finish.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 29, 2013, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on March 29, 2013, 12:04:29 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 27, 2013, 01:48:36 AM
It would be nice of the NWC joined the rest of the world with a conference tourney to decide Pool A bid. Cost and weather may be factors of why they dont.

I've never been a fan of conference tournaments and glad the NWC baseball teams have resisted.  The Pool A bid should go to the team who has shown over the entirety of the conference season that they're the best club from start to finish.
I respect your opinion but do you want the best baseball team all season or the best baseball team going into the regional. A great example is the Illinois Wesleyan - http://www.iwusports.com/news/2010/6/1/BB_0601104941.aspx
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on March 29, 2013, 01:29:58 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 29, 2013, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on March 29, 2013, 12:04:29 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 27, 2013, 01:48:36 AM
It would be nice of the NWC joined the rest of the world with a conference tourney to decide Pool A bid. Cost and weather may be factors of why they dont.

I've never been a fan of conference tournaments and glad the NWC baseball teams have resisted.  The Pool A bid should go to the team who has shown over the entirety of the conference season that they're the best club from start to finish.
I respect your opinion but do you want the best baseball team all season or the best baseball team going into the regional. A great example is the Illinois Wesleyan - http://www.iwusports.com/news/2010/6/1/BB_0601104941.aspx

All Season.  I like rewarding teams that do it all year and not those that get hot at the right time and backdoor their way to a regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on March 31, 2013, 04:49:37 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 29, 2013, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on March 29, 2013, 12:04:29 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 27, 2013, 01:48:36 AM
It would be nice of the NWC joined the rest of the world with a conference tourney to decide Pool A bid. Cost and weather may be factors of why they dont.

I've never been a fan of conference tournaments and glad the NWC baseball teams have resisted.  The Pool A bid should go to the team who has shown over the entirety of the conference season that they're the best club from start to finish.
I respect your opinion but do you want the best baseball team all season or the best baseball team going into the regional. A great example is the Illinois Wesleyan - http://www.iwusports.com/news/2010/6/1/BB_0601104941.aspx
Is there evidence that teams that upset their conference tournaments to win a pool A bid do particularly well in the regional?  that they are really the "best team" the next week (given that they were the best team this week but not the best team for the previous 12)?
I'll take the large sample size.
That being said, if a team has clearly been the best team all season, then there's probably a pool C bid waiting for them.
Then what conference tournaments do is screw borderline pool C teams.  But they can blame themselves for not winning their pool A.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 31, 2013, 09:08:14 PM
The best team in the West IMO right now is Centenary. They have beat everyone in their path and just because they are not eligible for postseason play they are not getting any love in the polls. Crash at least you can rank them  ;) ;)

Good series coming up for UTT this week will be a good one to watch.

My team Trinity continues to disappoint for a whole bunch of reasons. They have an unbelievably easy path to the West Regional.

Looks like LaVern has an opportunity to really earn a spot in the SCIAC tournament and have some momentum, could be a surprise team if they get it going.

My thought on Linfield losing: So what - they are 9-1 over the last 10 games; it happens to even the best teams.

Happy Easter everyone!



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 31, 2013, 10:59:45 PM
Last year when Centenary was part of the ASC East they lost 2 of 3 to UTT. They would like to even the score I am sure. UTT did not play well this past weekend and had an injury to one of their starters. The bullpen got roughed up and their pitching staff surrenderd 18 runs in the last two games loosing one 8-5 and winning the last one 12-10. If they play like they did against the Ozarks they could be in for a long weekend.

Texas BB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 31, 2013, 11:46:42 PM
The ASC has needed a tourney because it is 2 divisions.

The same was the case for the SCAC until this year.

The balance in the ASC has been incredible. Usually 5 or 6 of the 8 teams in the ASC tourney are good enough to win the entire thing.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on April 01, 2013, 12:09:47 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 31, 2013, 10:59:45 PM
Last year when Centenary was part of the ASC East they lost 2 of 3 to UTT. They would like to even the score I am sure. UTT did not play well this past weekend and had an injury to one of their starters. The bullpen got roughed up and their pitching staff surrenderd 18 runs in the last two games loosing one 8-5 and winning the last one 12-10. If they play like they did against the Ozarks they could be in for a long weekend.

Texas BB
No doubt........but I wouldnt count on it. UTT seems to be coming up with the wins they need to this year, and I see the Centenary series as a "need" to take. UTT has played the two best hitting teams in the conference over the last two weekends, and STILL walks out with the best team ERA in the conference.....good luck to any team holding ETBU homerless and tagging them for a gaggle of strikeouts through the first two games of a series. From what I saw, 1-9, Ozarks is a better hitting team than the Tigers, but time will tell....neither should be in the conference tourney due to a lack of success on the mound, but man can they hit!!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 01, 2013, 12:15:38 AM
Quote from: Patriotfan87 on April 01, 2013, 12:09:47 AM
but man can they hit!!

Wait till you see the Centenary team. They are beasts.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 01, 2013, 03:02:20 AM
Top Teams in the WEST for CDD3

1) Linfield(20-4)
2) Cal Lutheran(19-6-1)
3) Pomona-Pitzer(19-7)
4) Trinity-Texas(24-7)
5) Texas-Tyler(23-7)
6) Texas-Lutheran(23-7)

On the bubble  :-\ :-\ :-\
George Fox (19-7)

***Centenary(21-7) ....Sorry no NCAA Regional in 2013  :'( :'( :'(

Pomona-Pitzer could be playing for Pool C bid with games against Linfield that could make the difference.


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: doodlesdad on April 03, 2013, 03:29:14 PM
Linfield's No. 1 nationally and in the West, but only 1-1 vs. the SCIAC. I'm looking forward to their trip to SoCal next weekend for three games with 19-7 Pomona-Pitzer on April 12-13 and a game with 15-9 La Verne on April 14. La Verne beat 'em, 6-0, in the season opener in Arizona.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 03, 2013, 04:06:09 PM
With respect to the discussion of best team all season vs. best team based on conference tournament, I would add the following thought; teams can win their confernce with 3 good starters but not have enough arms to win a tournament.  UTT has been a good example of that. They have won or shared the ASC East title 6 times since 2005 but have only won the ASC tournament twice. They have had 3 good starters and a decent closer many times but lacked that #4 and #5. So if they lose a close game early in a double elimination tournament they have problems.  That is just one example and I am sure there are plenty of others. In the West region teams are only playing 4 times a week and may not develop a good #4 and #5 starter.  Some teams only have 2 top starters but have developed 3 or 4 other pitchers that they use regurlarly. Use in games regularly is the key as pitching in practice is not the same. A team can get buy during the regular season with 3 starters assuming a good offense and defense. However, that will not usually be enough in a tournament like the regional where you have to play a lot of games in a short period of time.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on April 03, 2013, 04:18:31 PM
Quote from: doodlesdad on April 03, 2013, 03:29:14 PM
but only 1-1 vs. the SCIAC.

I don't read too much into colder weather schools losing season openers down south.  This SoCal trip should be a better barometer.  The only thing that matters is winning the NWC because no NWC school should depend on a committee's judgement.  Not saying the trip doesn't matter but I'm not going to freak out if Linfield doesn't win all four.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on April 03, 2013, 05:14:22 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 03, 2013, 04:06:09 PM
With respect to the discussion of best team all season vs. best team based on conference tournament, I would add the following thought; teams can win their confernce with 3 good starters but not have enough arms to win a tournament.  UTT has been a good example of that. They have won or shared the ASC East title 6 times since 2005 but have only won the ASC tournament twice. They have had 3 good starters and a decent closer many times but lacked that #4 and #5. So if they lose a close game early in a double elimination tournament they have problems.  That is just one example and I am sure there are plenty of others. In the West region teams are only playing 4 times a week and may not develop a good #4 and #5 starter.  Some teams only have 2 top starters but have developed 3 or 4 other pitchers that they use regurlarly. Use in games regularly is the key as pitching in practice is not the same. A team can get buy during the regular season with 3 starters assuming a good offense and defense. However, that will not usually be enough in a tournament like the regional where you have to play a lot of games in a short period of time.

TexasBB
Of course, the other reason why UTT has fared so poorly might be that small sample sizes are really bad for determining who the better team is.  It's baseball. Good players can have off days, average players can have good days, over 9 innings teams can hit a lot of balls hard at people, balls can take bad hops, etc., all strongly influencing outcomes. (These tend to average out over 40 games).
 
I'm still arguing against pool A bids going to tournament winners instead of regular season champs.   I think regional selections should be a reward, not a strategic attempt on the part of the committee to try to put forward the teams that have the best chance of winning a national championship because they are "hot".  When looking at pool C criteria, you'll notice that nowhere is performance in the last k games mentioned, or seemingly allowed.  The committee is asked to evaluate cases in a temporal vacuum.  Strange, considering that so many pool A bids are given away based essentially only on how a team has performed very recently.  At least conference tournaments are fun to watch.
 
If you get through the regional, I agree that when you get to the CWS, west region teams are at a disadvantage to teams that regularly have 4th and 5th starters, assuming that you stick around long enough.
     
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 03, 2013, 05:38:38 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on April 03, 2013, 05:14:22 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 03, 2013, 04:06:09 PM
With respect to the discussion of best team all season vs. best team based on conference tournament, I would add the following thought; teams can win their confernce with 3 good starters but not have enough arms to win a tournament.  UTT has been a good example of that. They have won or shared the ASC East title 6 times since 2005 but have only won the ASC tournament twice. They have had 3 good starters and a decent closer many times but lacked that #4 and #5. So if they lose a close game early in a double elimination tournament they have problems.  That is just one example and I am sure there are plenty of others. In the West region teams are only playing 4 times a week and may not develop a good #4 and #5 starter.  Some teams only have 2 top starters but have developed 3 or 4 other pitchers that they use regurlarly. Use in games regularly is the key as pitching in practice is not the same. A team can get buy during the regular season with 3 starters assuming a good offense and defense. However, that will not usually be enough in a tournament like the regional where you have to play a lot of games in a short period of time.

TexasBB
Of course, the other reason why UTT has fared so poorly might be that small sample sizes are really bad for determining who the better team is.  It's baseball. Good players can have off days, average players can have good days, over 9 innings teams can hit a lot of balls hard at people, balls can take bad hops, etc., all strongly influencing outcomes. (These tend to average out over 40 games).
 
I'm still arguing against pool A bids going to tournament winners instead of regular season champs.   I think regional selections should be a reward, not a strategic attempt on the part of the committee to try to put forward the teams that have the best chance of winning a national championship because they are "hot".  When looking at pool C criteria, you'll notice that nowhere is performance in the last k games mentioned, or seemingly allowed.  The committee is asked to evaluate cases in a temporal vacuum.  Strange, considering that so many pool A bids are given away based essentially only on how a team has performed very recently.  At least conference tournaments are fun to watch.
 
If you get through the regional, I agree that when you get to the CWS, west region teams are at a disadvantage to teams that regularly have 4th and 5th starters, assuming that you stick around long enough.
     
I agree with you on the 4th/5th starter. Teams with the West typically dont have that 4/5 guy since there dont develop that guy due to their scheduleds. In the North & East with compressed schedules with 5/6 games a week you can not win consistently without a 4/5 starter.  This definitely creates a advantage come CWS time. West teams have come up short without that 4/5 pitcher along with losing the #1 All American pitcher and not pitching in the CWS.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 03, 2013, 06:08:24 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on April 03, 2013, 05:14:22 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 03, 2013, 04:06:09 PM
With respect to the discussion of best team all season vs. best team based on conference tournament, I would add the following thought; teams can win their confernce with 3 good starters but not have enough arms to win a tournament.  UTT has been a good example of that. They have won or shared the ASC East title 6 times since 2005 but have only won the ASC tournament twice. They have had 3 good starters and a decent closer many times but lacked that #4 and #5. So if they lose a close game early in a double elimination tournament they have problems.  That is just one example and I am sure there are plenty of others. In the West region teams are only playing 4 times a week and may not develop a good #4 and #5 starter.  Some teams only have 2 top starters but have developed 3 or 4 other pitchers that they use regurlarly. Use in games regularly is the key as pitching in practice is not the same. A team can get buy during the regular season with 3 starters assuming a good offense and defense. However, that will not usually be enough in a tournament like the regional where you have to play a lot of games in a short period of time.

TexasBB
Of course, the other reason why UTT has fared so poorly might be that small sample sizes are really bad for determining who the better team is.  It's baseball. Good players can have off days, average players can have good days, over 9 innings teams can hit a lot of balls hard at people, balls can take bad hops, etc., all strongly influencing outcomes. (These tend to average out over 40 games).
 
I'm still arguing against pool A bids going to tournament winners instead of regular season champs.   I think regional selections should be a reward, not a strategic attempt on the part of the committee to try to put forward the teams that have the best chance of winning a national championship because they are "hot".  When looking at pool C criteria, you'll notice that nowhere is performance in the last k games mentioned, or seemingly allowed.  The committee is asked to evaluate cases in a temporal vacuum. Strange, considering that so many pool A bids are given away based essentially only on how a team has performed very recently.  At least conference tournaments are fun to watch.   
 
If you get through the regional, I agree that when you get to the CWS, west region teams are at a disadvantage to teams that regularly have 4th and 5th starters, assuming that you stick around long enough.   

But only the NWC does not have a tournament to decide the Pool A.

As for the national committee, the teams are judged on the entire season for a Pool C bid.

"Last number of games" has not been a D-III baseball criterion in my memory.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on April 03, 2013, 06:28:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 03, 2013, 06:08:24 PM

But only the NWC does not have a tournament to decide the Pool A.


...and I hope that continues for a long time.  Go NWC!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 03, 2013, 07:14:41 PM
Quote from: doodlesdad on April 03, 2013, 03:29:14 PM
Linfield's No. 1 nationally and in the West, but only 1-1 vs. the SCIAC. I'm looking forward to their trip to SoCal next weekend for three games with 19-7 Pomona-Pitzer on April 12-13 and a game with 15-9 La Verne on April 14. La Verne beat 'em, 6-0, in the season opener in Arizona.

Have the Regional rankings come out yet?  I am not sure if that is an official #1 in the West or if that is based just on the overall rankings.  Anyone know?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 03, 2013, 07:30:57 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 03, 2013, 07:14:41 PM
Quote from: doodlesdad on April 03, 2013, 03:29:14 PM
Linfield's No. 1 nationally and in the West, but only 1-1 vs. the SCIAC. I'm looking forward to their trip to SoCal next weekend for three games with 19-7 Pomona-Pitzer on April 12-13 and a game with 15-9 La Verne on April 14. La Verne beat 'em, 6-0, in the season opener in Arizona.

Have the Regional rankings come out yet?  I am not sure if that is an official #1 in the West or if that is based just on the overall rankings.  Anyone know?
The first regional ranking teleconferences are scheduled for April 25.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on April 04, 2013, 04:17:43 PM
If you've never been to Linfield's baseball field before now you can.  A Google Street car drove around and onto Linfield's baseball and football facilities this past summer.  It's actually a fun way to kill a few minutes.

Google Maps Street View of Linfield's Roy Helser Field (https://www.google.com/maps?q=linfield+college&hl=en&ll=45.197817,-123.19725&spn=0.002918,0.016512&sll=44.145447,-120.583402&sspn=6.724251,16.907959&t=h&hq=linfield+college&layer=c&cbll=45.197817,-123.197246&panoid=G1DANjrGW7xyzO8QNM_oAQ&cbp=12,245.02,,0,3.45&z=17)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 04, 2013, 04:35:30 PM
Linfield has a beautiful campus and great baseball facility. Loved it in the 2009 in the sun during the regional. Hated in the rain, wind and cold playing baseball in 2010.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 04, 2013, 04:39:44 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 03, 2013, 06:08:24 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on April 03, 2013, 05:14:22 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 03, 2013, 04:06:09 PM
With respect to the discussion of best team all season vs. best team based on conference tournament, I would add the following thought; teams can win their confernce with 3 good starters but not have enough arms to win a tournament.  UTT has been a good example of that. They have won or shared the ASC East title 6 times since 2005 but have only won the ASC tournament twice. They have had 3 good starters and a decent closer many times but lacked that #4 and #5. So if they lose a close game early in a double elimination tournament they have problems.  That is just one example and I am sure there are plenty of others. In the West region teams are only playing 4 times a week and may not develop a good #4 and #5 starter.  Some teams only have 2 top starters but have developed 3 or 4 other pitchers that they use regurlarly. Use in games regularly is the key as pitching in practice is not the same. A team can get buy during the regular season with 3 starters assuming a good offense and defense. However, that will not usually be enough in a tournament like the regional where you have to play a lot of games in a short period of time.

TexasBB
Of course, the other reason why UTT has fared so poorly might be that small sample sizes are really bad for determining who the better team is.  It's baseball. Good players can have off days, average players can have good days, over 9 innings teams can hit a lot of balls hard at people, balls can take bad hops, etc., all strongly influencing outcomes. (These tend to average out over 40 games).
 
I'm still arguing against pool A bids going to tournament winners instead of regular season champs.   I think regional selections should be a reward, not a strategic attempt on the part of the committee to try to put forward the teams that have the best chance of winning a national championship because they are "hot".  When looking at pool C criteria, you'll notice that nowhere is performance in the last k games mentioned, or seemingly allowed.  The committee is asked to evaluate cases in a temporal vacuum. Strange, considering that so many pool A bids are given away based essentially only on how a team has performed very recently.  At least conference tournaments are fun to watch.   
 
If you get through the regional, I agree that when you get to the CWS, west region teams are at a disadvantage to teams that regularly have 4th and 5th starters, assuming that you stick around long enough.   

But only the NWC does not have a tournament to decide the Pool A.

As for the national committee, the teams are judged on the entire season for a Pool C bid.

"Last number of games" has not been a D-III baseball criterion in my memory.
I believe Conference Tourney makes the team EARN their right to the regional. To me it is ROUND 1 of the playoffs, Regional being Round 2 to get to ROUND 3 in Appleton.

If you cant win your conference tourney do you deserve to move on? Not in my opinion. Not in DIII baseball.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: playball on April 04, 2013, 05:09:53 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 04, 2013, 04:39:44 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 03, 2013, 06:08:24 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on April 03, 2013, 05:14:22 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 03, 2013, 04:06:09 PM
With respect to the discussion of best team all season vs. best team based on conference tournament, I would add the following thought; teams can win their confernce with 3 good starters but not have enough arms to win a tournament.  UTT has been a good example of that. They have won or shared the ASC East title 6 times since 2005 but have only won the ASC tournament twice. They have had 3 good starters and a decent closer many times but lacked that #4 and #5. So if they lose a close game early in a double elimination tournament they have problems.  That is just one example and I am sure there are plenty of others. In the West region teams are only playing 4 times a week and may not develop a good #4 and #5 starter.  Some teams only have 2 top starters but have developed 3 or 4 other pitchers that they use regurlarly. Use in games regularly is the key as pitching in practice is not the same. A team can get buy during the regular season with 3 starters assuming a good offense and defense. However, that will not usually be enough in a tournament like the regional where you have to play a lot of games in a short period of time.

TexasBB
Of course, the other reason why UTT has fared so poorly might be that small sample sizes are really bad for determining who the better team is.  It's baseball. Good players can have off days, average players can have good days, over 9 innings teams can hit a lot of balls hard at people, balls can take bad hops, etc., all strongly influencing outcomes. (These tend to average out over 40 games).
 
I'm still arguing against pool A bids going to tournament winners instead of regular season champs.   I think regional selections should be a reward, not a strategic attempt on the part of the committee to try to put forward the teams that have the best chance of winning a national championship because they are "hot".  When looking at pool C criteria, you'll notice that nowhere is performance in the last k games mentioned, or seemingly allowed.  The committee is asked to evaluate cases in a temporal vacuum. Strange, considering that so many pool A bids are given away based essentially only on how a team has performed very recently.  At least conference tournaments are fun to watch.   
 
If you get through the regional, I agree that when you get to the CWS, west region teams are at a disadvantage to teams that regularly have 4th and 5th starters, assuming that you stick around long enough.   

But only the NWC does not have a tournament to decide the Pool A.

As for the national committee, the teams are judged on the entire season for a Pool C bid.

"Last number of games" has not been a D-III baseball criterion in my memory.
I believe Conference Tourney makes the team EARN their right to the regional. To me it is ROUND 1 of the playoffs, Regional being Round 2 to get to ROUND 3 in Appleton.

If you cant win your conference tourney do you deserve to move on? Not in my opinion. Not in DIII baseball.

So the other 24 games would only be for seeding in the conference tournament?  That seems like a lot of games for something more trivial.  The best team week in and week out earns that automatic bid.  A team that limps into a conference tournament and somehow gets hot seems like a flawed system to me
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 04, 2013, 05:44:38 PM
I agree with Crash. You get a seeding based on in season performance and then have to earn the right to represent your conference. If you have played a strong enough schedule and done well enough then the team will likely get a Pool C bid, but you have to develop and be prepared as a team at the end of the season to win. That is the whole point in picking the most competitive teams come the tournament. Plus it makes it much more fun and interesting for the players, coaches and fans.  ;D
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 05, 2013, 08:06:19 AM
Series I'm Looking Forward To This Weekend:

UT Tyler vs. Centenary
Hardin Simmons vs. Chapman
Linfield vs. Pac Lutheran
George Fox vs. Puget Sound
Redlands vs. Oxy (I guess...)

Not a super compelling weekend as none of the top conference teams square off against each other; however, always playoff implications on the line as the top teams need to try and sweep their series in order to stay in contention for a Pool C bid provided (in the case of the of ASC/SCIAC) they don't win their conference tournament.

*UT Tyler & Centenary are both atop their conferences, but Centenary is not playoff eligible and a non-conference opponent for the Patriots.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 05, 2013, 08:56:50 AM
Once a top team in the West,  Chapman has now lost 7 in a row and 8 of last 9. A very young team in 2013. The once dominant team in the West is now 4 games under .500. In 2011 playing for the National Championship seems like a long time ago now. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

They still have a chance to get into a top 4 spot for the SCIAC tournament but will have to win their remaining 10 SCIAC conference games.


This is the same team that has wins over Kean, Trinity, Cal Lutheran, Pomona Pitzer, Occidental and La Verne.  4 of these teams in the TOP 25  ??? ??? All with winning records.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 05, 2013, 11:52:32 AM
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on April 05, 2013, 08:06:19 AM
Series I'm Looking Forward To This Weekend:

UT Tyler vs. Centenary
Hardin Simmons vs. Chapman
Linfield vs. Pac Lutheran
George Fox vs. Puget Sound

Redlands vs. Oxy (I guess...)

Not a super compelling weekend as none of the top conference teams square off against each other; however, always playoff implications on the line as the top teams need to try and sweep their series in order to stay in contention for a Pool C bid provided (in the case of the of ASC/SCIAC) they don't win their conference tournament.

*UT Tyler & Centenary are both atop their conferences, but Centenary is not playoff eligible and a non-conference opponent for the Patriots.

JSG

The two NWC series are very interesting, indeed.  It will be difficult for either Linfield or G. Fox to sweep - if someone does sweep - on the road, it will be a statement.  Pac Lu's offense has not produced this season, but Beatty and Lubking have the ability to shut anyone down for a game.  Puget Sound has been a scrapper all season in-conference.  They took a game from Linfield, and swept PLU last weekend.  Fox is hot, coming off a sweep of Whitworth, but was nearly swept the previous weekend, losing 2/3 to Whitman.

After a stretch of beautiful weather, the Northwest is looking rainy and cold again - back to normal, but they'll get the games in....

....Crash....Chapman is actually 5 games under .500, at 11-16.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 05, 2013, 05:57:12 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 05, 2013, 11:52:32 AM
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on April 05, 2013, 08:06:19 AM
Series I'm Looking Forward To This Weekend:

UT Tyler vs. Centenary
Hardin Simmons vs. Chapman
Linfield vs. Pac Lutheran
George Fox vs. Puget Sound

Redlands vs. Oxy (I guess...)

Not a super compelling weekend as none of the top conference teams square off against each other; however, always playoff implications on the line as the top teams need to try and sweep their series in order to stay in contention for a Pool C bid provided (in the case of the of ASC/SCIAC) they don't win their conference tournament.

*UT Tyler & Centenary are both atop their conferences, but Centenary is not playoff eligible and a non-conference opponent for the Patriots.

JSG

The two NWC series are very interesting, indeed.  It will be difficult for either Linfield or G. Fox to sweep - if someone does sweep - on the road, it will be a statement.  Pac Lu's offense has not produced this season, but Beatty and Lubking have the ability to shut anyone down for a game.  Puget Sound has been a scrapper all season in-conference.  They took a game from Linfield, and swept PLU last weekend.  Fox is hot, coming off a sweep of Whitworth, but was nearly swept the previous weekend, losing 2/3 to Whitman.

After a stretch of beautiful weather, the Northwest is looking rainy and cold again - back to normal, but they'll get the games in....

....Crash....Chapman is actually 5 games under .500, at 11-16.
WOW...I am a day behind. Last year a .500 season this year could be a losing season....All started to happen when they joined the SCIAC....Maybe it is time to go INDEPENDENT again. I bet they miss being a Pool B bid....Things are not going well in the OC....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on April 05, 2013, 10:33:43 PM
UTT takes game one from Centenary 7-4. Both teams put up 4 in the first but the Patriots contained the Gents for the next 8.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 05, 2013, 11:27:08 PM
Did Chapman have a coaching change in the last 2 years?  I am not as familiar with them but often times in D III the ability of coaches to recurit makes all of the difference in the world.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2013, 12:24:16 AM
TexasBB,

Chapman is one of the most successful programs in the West the past 10 years. They lost one of the top pitchers to the draft last year(Jt), as well as two others to injuries. They are just in a transition year and are a very young team, which based on what I saw was quite talented and will be back in the win column next year. Their coach is well respected. Crash and some others may be disappointed but sometimes programs have transition years and they are going through one this year. They could be a scary 4 seed in the SCIAC tournament if they can get in.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 06, 2013, 06:44:19 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2013, 12:24:16 AM
TexasBB,

Chapman is one of the most successful programs in the West the past 10 years. They lost one of the top pitchers to the draft last year(Jt), as well as two others to injuries. They are just in a transition year and are a very young team, which based on what I saw was quite talented and will be back in the win column next year. Their coach is well respected. Crash and some others may be disappointed but sometimes programs have transition years and they are going through one this year. They could be a scary 4 seed in the SCIAC tournament if they can get in.
Chapman has not had transition year until 2012 when they missed the regional playoffs. Chapman has only missed the regional playoffs twice since 1997. And you are right, they indeed lost all of the pitching staff that was there from 2011/2012. #1 to draft, #2 Injury #3 injury #4 graduate #5 left the team #6 is the only pitcher to return.

Chapman's biggest problem in 2013 is not pitching and is not defense(Better Team ERA than Cal Lu..Tied with Cal Lu for best fielding%)

Chapman's problem is scoring runs...14 times scoring 3 or less runs. Chapman could be top team in 2014 with only 1 senior starter not being back. Yes a very young team with some real talent...Team hitting .257 avg .329 oba .311 slg  (ranked 7th in SCIAC in hitting)
http://www.chapmanathletics.com/sports/bsb/2012-13/teams/chapman?view=lineup

Chapman still has a shot at SCIAC playoff spot at #4 but they have 10 SCIAC games left which they need to win almost all of them to get in.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Piobark on April 06, 2013, 11:25:09 AM
The Chapman situation is one that makes me wonder about the importance of being in a conference. Assuming that the goal is to make the playoffs, which is easier - winning your league or getting selected as an independent.

In many ways Chapman was the Notre Dame Football of D3 previously - picking their own schedule and enjoying a great reputation. I wonder if they are regretting the move (from a baseball national title perspective - I understand and appreciate the value of league competition for the broader range of sports.)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 06, 2013, 11:50:11 AM
In the west, it may no longer be feasible to be independent, given the cost of travel and the need to play the majority of game in region. Without being in the SCIAC Chapman would likely need to increase their travel to either head north or to Texas to be able to get enough in-region games. You add in "competition levels" of certain programs it would make getting enough quality games as an independent nearly impossible (without incurring added travel cost).

Most of D3 is blind to the travel and distance issues that teams in the west face.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 06, 2013, 12:34:41 PM
How many D3 schools are within 60 miles of Chapman?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2013, 01:35:14 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 06, 2013, 12:34:41 PM
How many D3 schools are within 60 miles of Chapman?

Pretty much the SCIAC except CLU.

ILVBB summarized it pretty well, for Chapman to play teams outside of the SCIAC they have to get on a plane. I checked and the oldest schedule I could get to was from 2011. It is below. It looks like they had a lot of teams coming to them, in particular the NWest schools and schools from the East, plus some DII, and NAIA games. Looks like two plane trips. Not sure if they would be able to get the out of region teams in with the new rule changes plus the non DIII games don't count.

   
   
Feb. 5   Whittier
   Whittier
Feb. 10   at Pomona-Pitzer
Feb. 14   at Pomona-Pitzer
Feb. 18   at McMurry
Feb. 19   at McMurry
   at McMurry
Feb. 25   Willamette
   Pomona-Pitzer
Feb. 27   at Claremont-M-S
Mar. 5   Wabash
Mar. 6   Wabash
   Wabash
Mar. 11   Kean
Mar. 12   Rutgers-Newark
Mar. 14   Ithaca
Mar. 15   Ithaca
Mar. 19   at La Verne
   at La Verne
Mar. 20   La Verne
Mar. 26   Wheaton (Ill.)
   Wheaton (Ill.)
   Wheaton (Ill.)
Apr. 5   Claremont-M-S
Apr. 6   Cal Lutheran
Apr. 8   Cal St. San Marcos
Apr. 16   at Linfield
   at Linfield
Apr. 17   at Linfield
   at Linfield
Apr. 21   at Pt. Loma Nazerene
Apr. 23   at Cal St. San Marcos
   at Cal St. San Marcos
Apr. 30   Dallas
   Dallas
May. 1   Dallas
May. 6   Redlands
May. 7   at Redlands
   at Redlands

Crash regarding your stats, when I saw Chapman early in the season I thought they had poor approach to their at bats. This is an area I think players significantly improve as they mature, so I would expect them to be better in this area next year. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 06, 2013, 03:55:14 PM
Seems to me Chapman has it better than most. I wouldn't think Arizona was a plane flight for the SCIAC teams.

I would think the Texas and Pac NW schools incur more travel than Chapman and the SCIAC.

And most of the region benefits from not having to play a bunch of games down south. Imagine being in Duluth and still having snow on your field, today. Scholastica doesn't have another home game until the 19th, and their only other scheduled one was cancelled.

Or imagine being an hour or more from the nearest D-III school, including the ones in your conference. That's true for quite a few teams I can think of (and probably many I don't) -- Marietta, Averett, Ferrum, Huntingdon, Birmingham Southern, Rhodes, probably Spalding, Concordia-Moorhead, UW-Stevens Point, Castleton State I would think.

Imagine barely being able to get outside, then getting on a bus and trucking 12-16 hours or more, then getting off the bus and playing ballgames.

Portland to LA is a shorter trip than Ohio or New Jersey to Fort Myers or Orlando. LA to San Antonio isn't much further.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 06, 2013, 04:17:01 PM
The SoCal and PNW teams have the same problem. They can play themselves or they have to get on an airplane. The Texas schools have more options, but rather than get on a plane many of the schools represent an 8-12 hour bus ride.

Chapman has the eight other schools in their conference otherwise it is a 1,000 mile to Portland, 1,200 miles to Seattle or 1,400 miles to Texas. For reference here is the mileage from Chapman (Orange, CA) to each team in the west region. You can do the same thing for the other teams, the problem is the same. You either play more than 1/2 your schedule in your conference, play the local NAIA or D2 programs or get on a plane for a 2-5 hour flight (plus bus time).

For those that don't know where some of these towns are; getting to Sul Ross is a flight with at least a plane change to El Paso, TX and then a 2.5 hour bus ride) -- not practical. How about going to Conway, AR for a midweek game from say Spokane (9 hour flight, two plan changes and a 1 hour bus rid) - not going to happen. The logistics in the west are not understood or apreciated by most D3 followers.

I recognize weather is an issue for northern teams, but once the weather turns, then distances are not an issue.

Institution   Location    Conference    Chapman to (in miles):
         
Concordia-Texas   Austin, TX   ASC    1,360
East Texas Baptist   Marshall, TX   ASC    1,569
Hardin-Simmons   Abilene, TX   ASC    1,237
Howard Payne   Brownwood, TX   ASC    1,614
LeTourneau   Longview, TX   ASC    1,546
Louisiana College   Pineville, LA   ASC    1,722
Mary Hardin-Baylor   Belton, TX   ASC    1,395
Mississippi College   Clinton, MS   ASC    1,813
Schreiner   Kerrville, TX   ASC    1,126
Sul Ross State   Alpine, TX   ASC    1,004
Texas Lutheran   Seguin, TX   ASC    1,203
Texas-Dallas   Richardson, TX   ASC    1,431
Texas-Tyler   Tyler, TX   ASC    1,517
University of the Ozarks   Clarksville, AR   ASC    1,560
George Fox   Newberg, OR   NWC    978
Lewis and Clark   Portland, OR   NWC    994
Linfield   McMinnville, OR   NWC    976
Pacific Lutheran   Tacoma, WA   NWC    1,137
Pacific   Forest Grove, OR   NWC    1,013
Puget Sound   Tacoma, WA   NWC    1,137
Whitman   Walla Walla, WA   NWC    1,061
Whitworth   Spokane, WA   NWC    1,234
Willamette   Salem, OR   NWC    950
Hendrix   Conway, AR   SAA    1,629
Austin   Sherman, TX   SCAC    1,404
Centenary (La.)   Shrevesport, LA   SCAC    1,607
Southwestern   Georgetown, TX   SCAC    1,362
Trinity (Texas)   San Antonio, TX   SCAC    1,335
University of Dallas   Irving, TX   SCAC    1,431
Cal Lutheran   Thousand Oaks, CA   SCIAC    71
Caltech   Pasadena, CA   SCIAC    41
Chapman   Orange, CA   SCIAC   
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps   Claremont, CA   SCIAC    29
La Verne   La Verne, CA   SCIAC    26
Occidental   Los Angeles, CA   SCIAC    40
Pomona-Pitzer   Claremont, CA   SCIAC    29
Redlands   Redlands, CA   SCIAC    50
Whittier   Whittier, CA   SCIAC    26

Spence, there are no D3 teams in AZ (nor Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, etc.)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 06, 2013, 04:26:08 PM
There aren't any D-III teams in Florida or South Carolina either, but many games are played there.

And games are played in Arizona as well, which is a good idea. Could do the same thing in Texas...Marietta went to Abilene for spring trip a few times.

You're unlikely to find much sympathy here. I wonder how long it takes to get from Wheaton Mass. to Fort Myers, FL. Much longer than it takes to go straight up I-5 from LA to Portland, that's for sure.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2013, 04:26:38 PM
I agree that the SCIAC conference is a perfect fit for Chapman. It is a nice compact group of schools. The only downside is that it may only be 90 miles to CLU, but with LA traffic it can take 5 hours. :o SoCal has perfect baseball weather and teams from out of the region want to come both from the Northwest or East. They could probably still fill in a schedule as an independent, but it is much better for them in a conference.

You are correct about the NW and Tx conferences. It is much easier in the new SCAC as Tx teams have a max bus ride of 7-8 hours ::). Those long 12 hour rides to Hendrix and BSC won't happen very often now. (both good and bad) NWC has similar 4-6 hour rides. I would like to see Trinity start going to Arizona, I think it will help their SoS, maybe they will get enough financial support now from the University that they can add this away trip.

I think the NE schools typically have more options as far as teams, but the compact schedules and weather are a killer. I have no idea how those kids are able to get in school work with a 5 game/week schedule plus make up games. It does seem to help them come regional time as it has been discussed here over and over.

The West certainly has its challenges, but if I was a ball player I would MUCH rather be out here than the NW or NE ;D

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 06, 2013, 04:42:04 PM
Going to AZ can work as long as you can schedule multiple teams before spring training begins. Once spring training begins, fields become less accessable, hotel rooms double or triple in price and flights become more expensive.

I have always thought that teams with good central locations (Dallas, LA, Seattle, Portland) could host 3 teams over a weekend. This could allow for 3-5 games against at least 3 teams. This could help make travel costs more bearable.

Spence; I don't want to argue with you, but a northern team traveling to Florida to get games in before the weather turns is not the same as being limited to 6-7 teams that don't require a flight. Cold weather teams have the option of waiting till the weather turns (which some do). You can not wait for Seattle to move closer to Texas.

One of the reason the SCAC blew up was travel costs. You start advocating that D3 schools spend more on travel and you will see schools drop sports rather than incurring large travel costs which do not directly go into educational programs. Since I began following D3 ball, the two teams in my area have droped from the D3 landscape because of lack of local competion and travel (CSUEB to D2 and Menlo to NAIA).  Creating rules intended to enhance competition without recognizing the financial consequences may end up with result that were unintended by design.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 06, 2013, 05:09:59 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2013, 04:26:38 PM
I agree that the SCIAC conference is a perfect fit for Chapman. It is a nice compact group of schools. The only downside is that it may only be 90 miles to CLU, but with LA traffic it can take 5 hours. :o

This is why it'll take a lot for me to ever move out there.

You are correct about the NW and Tx conferences. It is much easier in the new SCAC as Tx teams have a max bus ride of 7-8 hours ::). Those long 12 hour rides to Hendrix and BSC won't happen very often now. (both good and bad) NWC has similar 4-6 hour rides. I would like to see Trinity start going to Arizona, I think it will help their SoS, maybe they will get enough financial support now from the University that they can add this away trip.

I think the NE schools typically have more options as far as teams, but the compact schedules and weather are a killer. I have no idea how those kids are able to get in school work with a 5 game/week schedule plus make up games.

Very dedicated players, voice mail, and coaches that could probably minor as weather forecasters. :)

It does seem to help them come regional time as it has been discussed here over and over.

The West certainly has its challenges, but if I was a ball player I would MUCH rather be out here than the NW or NE ;D

Even the Oregon teams seem to have less trouble getting games in than the midwest or northeast.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 06, 2013, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on April 06, 2013, 04:42:04 PM
Going to AZ can work as long as you can schedule multiple teams before spring training begins. Once spring training begins, fields become less accessable, hotel rooms double or triple in price and flights become more expensive.

I have always thought that teams with good central locations (Dallas, LA, Seattle, Portland) could host 3 teams over a weekend. This could allow for 3-5 games against at least 3 teams. This could help make travel costs more bearable.

That would be a good idea. Montclair State and Huntingdon did trips to Marieta and Muskingum this year. Marietta is going to New Jersey next year. A lot of the midwestern teams play in Minneapolis but that's not going to be an option much longer.

Spence; I don't want to argue with you, but a northern team traveling to Florida to get games in before the weather turns is not the same as being limited to 6-7 teams that don't require a flight. Cold weather teams have the option of waiting till the weather turns (which some do). You can not wait for Seattle to move closer to Texas.

It's not that much different either. It's long travel, overnight travel, most of the time on a bus, to play ballgames. How many teams play in Florida...150? More? They're not doing it for free.

One of the reason the SCAC blew up was travel costs. You start advocating that D3 schools spend more on travel and you will see schools drop sports rather than incurring large travel costs which do not directly go into educational programs.

The SCAC had league opponents from Indiana to south Texas. There was very little sense to that. Not the same as any of the West region conferences. The UAA is even more geographically far-flung but they found a solution to their problems (play all their conference games in Florida). I think Wooster has also played conference games in Florida before...against schools that are not very far from them at all!

Since I began following D3 ball, the two teams in my area have droped from the D3 landscape because of lack of local competion and travel (CSUEB to D2 and Menlo to NAIA).  Creating rules intended to enhance competition without recognizing the financial consequences may end up with result that were unintended by design.

If East Bay and Menlo didn't recognize that they were going to have to travel to play, then their decisions were poorly thought out. But I would have a lot more understanding for that than people complaining because they have to travel to play out of league but their whole league is within 100 miles.

Long story short, we all have problems.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 06, 2013, 06:45:15 PM
McMurry would fly to the AZ tourney and the Chapman when they were playing each other.

The problem in the ASC is that you can get a 40 game season., but it is for the most part, the same 20 teams from which to choose, (i.e., the ASC-14 or 15 and the SCAC-West 5).

When you are looking at the number of unique teams played by conference membere, by which the OWP/OOWP and SOS are calulated, you get the same 20 teams for the ASC and the Texas teams.

The West coast teams may get that to 25 with the west coast snow birds, but those have not been  in-region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 06, 2013, 08:28:08 PM
UTT won the nightcap 8-5 to take 2 out of 3 from Centenary.

Their set up man and closer worked well this series.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2013, 09:07:25 PM
Congrats to UTT. They move up on my top 25....well if I had one....OK I move them up on Crashes top team in the West. ;D
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 12:05:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 06, 2013, 06:45:15 PM

When you are looking at the number of unique teams played by conference membere, by which the OWP/OOWP and SOS are calulated, you get the same 20 teams for the ASC and the Texas teams.

The West coast teams may get that to 25 with the west coast snow birds, but those have not been  in-region.

Again I'll point to the lengths other programs have to go to get games in and see West teams starting early Feb and only playing a few games a week. IMO there are things that could be done that aren't right now.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 12:45:16 PM
I am sure things could be done differently Spence if the only variable was baseball. We seem to forget on this board that these are students first. (DIII at that) There are academic considerations, conference issues, travel costs, and a bunch of other higher priority problems that come way before a DIII baseball program. There is no way the administration of any highly ranked university (academic)  is going to let a baseball program take precedence over academics, costs, school schedules, etc.

As you posted previously all areas in the country have different issues.  The West teams have theirs - It is just the way it is.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 07, 2013, 12:55:37 PM
Anything that can be done has to be done before confence play starts. So you are limited to a couple of weekends in February and maybee the first week of March. The best bet is Arizona where the wheather is normally cooperative. North Texas in February and early March is iffy at best.  Once conference play starts the West Region teams are issolated in their zones for the most part due to the distances.

Pre-confernce play is not (IMO) a very good judge of how good a team is playing in April. That is true for the northeren schools going to Florida as well. The West region is just way too spread out for them to play against each other. Linfield and UTT for example are not likely to ever play each other unless it is in a pre-conference tournament or in the regional. The Div III schools just don't have the travel budgets to do a regular home and away annual play as DIV I schools do. I would like to see more of it but reality gets in the way.

TexasBB

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 01:14:04 PM
Do western schools not have spring break?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 01:30:09 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 12:45:16 PM
I am sure things could be done differently Spence if the only variable was baseball. We seem to forget on this board that these are students first. (DIII at that) There are academic considerations, conference issues, travel costs, and a bunch of other higher priority problems that come way before a DIII baseball program. There is no way the administration of any highly ranked university (academic)  is going to let a baseball program take precedence over academics, costs, school schedules, etc.

As you posted previously all areas in the country have different issues.  The West teams have theirs - It is just the way it is.

Difference is people from the other parts of the country don't complain nearly as much about their issues...they deal with them and overcome them. And the way they do that most is by getting on a bus.

Your statements sound like a holier-than-thou indictment of other programs that travel more, take finals on the road during tournaments, etc. It would be insulting except that it's so patently ridiculous. It sounds like you don't think teams back east that are playing 6-7 games a week sometimes care about academics.

Whatever, I don't really care and I don't think the NCAA is going to take pity on teams that don't do all they can to compete. I'm glad there is at least one or two people on this board that can understand and admit (sad that it has to be that) that schools out west don't have it too bad. Hell, you have schools from back east that have barely been outside coming across the country to play true road games with NO return trip! I don't see how it gets better than that.

Every problem is an opportunity to improve by way of the solution.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on April 07, 2013, 01:39:55 PM
Just pointing out that my high school team has YET to play a game and has only been outside three days so far... The loss of the MetroDome next year is really going to hit the midwest teams hard. They are all going to have to travel South to play which may eliminate some of the great early season matchups (St. Thomas and St. Scholastica vs the top of the half of the WIAC for example).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 07, 2013, 01:53:31 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 07, 2013, 01:14:04 PM
Do western schools not have spring break?

Speaking only for the SCAIC but they play conference games during this time.  The SCIAC added 4 round-robin games this year which pushes their conference schedule to 28 games.  It looks like the addition of the conference tournament eliminated 1 regular season game for a total of 39 games.  Only having to find 11 non-conference games should not be too tough and it all starts in early Feb.  There are 2 different Arizona tournaments to get games in and you can easily play 4-5 games in those.  I am a West homer but I also see how big of a luxury the West has when it comes to scheduling.  Fundraising can be done, it's just a matter of IF it is done.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 01:59:57 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 07, 2013, 01:39:55 PM
Just pointing out that my high school team has YET to play a game and has only been outside three days so far... The loss of the MetroDome next year is really going to hit the midwest teams hard. They are all going to have to travel South to play which may eliminate some of the great early season matchups (St. Thomas and St. Scholastica vs the top of the half of the WIAC for example).

Yeah, it will be interesting to see how that's handled. But it will be. Maybe they play more games down south, maybe they meet somewhere further south to play. A round robin weekend between several of the regional powers would be really fun and great competition for everyone.

But at least for the MIAC, once the season starts most of the league has it pretty easy for travel...well other than Concordia-Moorhead.

Hopefully the winter won't be quite as slow to end next year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 07, 2013, 02:31:50 PM
Take a look at the 2012 DOE data regarding institutionally-funded "game day expenses" by participant, by sport.  Of the 9 NWC schools, the median game-day funding per player, for the season was $2,679.  The highest funding school spent $4,400, the lowest, $1,470.  Most NWC teams do a reasonable amount of air travel to get games in.

By contrast, Chapman funded $841 per player.  Pomona, with a $1 billion + endowment, funded $862.

It really only requires two well-planned trips with airfare to get 8-10 quality games in.  The money required to do this is chicken-feed in most instances to these institutions, its just a choice.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 02:40:49 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 07, 2013, 02:31:50 PM
Take a look at the 2012 DOE data regarding institutionally-funded "game day expenses" by participant, by sport.  Of the 9 NWC schools, the median game-day funding per player, for the season was $2,679.  The highest funding school spent $4,400, the lowest, $1,470.  Most NWC teams do a reasonable amount of air travel to get games in.

By contrast, Chapman funded $841 per player.  Pomona, with a $1 billion + endowment, funded $862.

It really only requires two well-planned trips with airfare to get 8-10 quality games in.  The money required to do this is chicken-feed in most instances to these institutions, its just a choice.

Can you link this, please? I'm kind of curious to see other schools too...not just in the West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 07, 2013, 02:46:46 PM
DIV III sports are extra curricular activities. A college has alot of budgetary issues with sports being just one of them. Most schools want to be fair to all the sports. So spending on travel for a baseball team will likely mean spending on travel for the softball team or tennis team etc etc.  With the pressure to keep costs down travel budgets are being cut. Again reality sets in and limits things.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 04:15:24 PM
Quote
Can you link this, please? I'm kind of curious to see other schools too...not just in the West.

Here is the link, however the data here is very suspect. If you look at some of the D1 programs they spend a lot more than what is reported here. This was hashed out on the rivals board some time ago and there were lots of questions regarding its accuracy.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Index.aspx

Regarding your other comments, I am not taking a holier than thou approach, I'm just saying administrators are not going to allow teams to have 6-7 game per week schedules when they can do 4 game schedules as it offers a better balance. It just won't happen. I really don't know how a kid in the NE can take a heavy science, pre-med  or engineering major and get it done in 4 years with those schedules. I know some do it, and my hats off to them, but why would an administrator allow this for a sports team? Just saying it won't happen.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 04:24:38 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 04:15:24 PM
Quote
Can you link this, please? I'm kind of curious to see other schools too...not just in the West.

Here is the link, however the data here is very suspect. If you look at some of the D1 programs they spend a lot more than what is reported here. This was hashed out on the rivals board some time ago and there were lots of questions regarding its accuracy.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Index.aspx

Regarding your other comments, I am not taking a holier than thou approach, I'm just saying administrators are not going to allow teams to have 6-7 game per week schedules when they can do 4 game schedules as it offers a better balance. It just won't happen. I really don't know how a kid in the NE can take a heavy science, pre-med  or engineering major and get it done in 4 years with those schedules. I know some do it, and my hats off to them, but why would an administrator allow this for a sports team? Just saying it won't happen.

OK I apparently don't know how to use that link. I want data by individual school, not by conference or anything, and I can't figure out how to get it that way.

Obviously it will happen because it does happen. But you AGAIN insinuate that administrators are being lax or remiss in their duties by allowing teams to play that schedule.

Maybe northern and eastern kids are just smarter and manage their time better. Just as asinine as what you're putting out here.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it can't work, which it clearly does.

Every year this board see this whining about the same thing. Either do something about it, or don't...but it gets really old hearing it every year.

Heck you don't even have anything to whine about yet...the best team in the country is in the West and is proving that you can travel in midseason because they're doing it next week.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 07, 2013, 04:36:02 PM
Spence - don't forget the impact of Title IX. You can not always just spend more for travel without looking at the consiquences of Title IX. Let's just say a west team wants to take an additional trip to get 3-4 more in region games; so just fund raise. Flights, hotels, ground transportation and food a weekend can run $15K to $20k. Now let's factor in Title IX when the school makeup is 60% women and 40% men. The fund raising is now $20K for the baseball team and $30K for the women's program to ensure compliance with Title IX.

The effective cost -- $45 to $50K for that extra trip.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 04:42:01 PM
Spence who is whining? We have an intelligent discussion and then you start throwing around insults. It really is not necessary.

Regarding the link go to "get data for one institution" and you can look up schools there.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 04:46:37 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 04:42:01 PM
Spence who is whining? We have an intelligent discussion and then you start throwing around insults. It really is not necessary.

What insult? Demonstrating absurdity by being absurd is not an insult.

Every time you talk about how things can't be done because of missed class time, academic responsibility etc. when they are being done somewhere else, I'm going to throw it right back in your face. Because it is an insult to the many athletes that do perform in the classroom and on the field and play several ballgames a week and ride a bus and play games on short notice, etc. It can be done, it is being done, and there is no sacrifice of academics being made to do so and for you to suggest otherwise, explicitly or implicitly, is not tolerable to me.

That's what you're going to get, every time, from now on. So I would suggest filing it because it's not going to fly anymore.

I eventually found the tab. The bit about "if baseball gets more, everyone else will" that someone posted earlier doesn't seem to be holding in the data I've looked at so far.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 04:47:52 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on April 07, 2013, 04:36:02 PM
Spence - don't forget the impact of Title IX. You can not always just spend more for travel without looking at the consiquences of Title IX. Let's just say a west team wants to take an additional trip to get 3-4 more in region games; so just fund raise. Flights, hotels, ground transportation and food a weekend can run $15K to $20k. Now let's factor in Title IX when the school makeup is 60% women and 40% men. The fund raising is now $20K for the baseball team and $23K for the women's program to ensure compliance with Title IX.

The effective cost -- $40 to $45K for that extra trip.

This is not how Title IX works at all. That's all I'm going to say.

Actually, I'm also going to say your numbers are horse hockey. Heidelberg baseball's entire operating expenses in 2011 was a little over $21k, and they make a Florida trip.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 07, 2013, 04:59:54 PM
Spence - please get out a map and look at the distances. A simple travel budget; Texas to LA for 28 players and coaches, two nights in a hotel, bus for three days, food for three days, and one checked bag per player.

Airfare - $400 per person - $11,200
Hotel - 14 rooms at $100 per room - 2,800
Food - 28 people at $40 per person - 1,120
Bus - $1,200 per day -$3,600
Extra Bag - 25 players at $25 per person - $550

Total cost - $19,270.

My sons went to school in San Antonio; it is a 20 hour drive from LA in a car; my guess is you need to add a couple hours in a bus.

As to Title IX; you had better check your facts. I have been down this road with my son's baseball team. We had to curtail baseball only fundraising because of Title IX compliance.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 05:19:59 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on April 07, 2013, 04:59:54 PM
Spence - please get out a map and look at the distances. A simple travel budget; Texas to LA for 28 players and coaches, two nights in a hotel, bus for three days, food for three days, and one checked bag per player.

Airfare - $400 per person - $11,200
Hotel - 14 rooms at $100 per room - 2,800
Food - 28 people at $40 per person - 1,120
Bus - $1,200 per day -$3,600
Extra Bag - 25 players at $25 per person - $550

Total cost - $19,270.

My sons went to school in San Antonio; it is a 20 hour drive from LA in a car; my guess is you need to add a couple hours in a bus.

As to Title IX; you had better check your facts. I have been down this road with my son's baseball team. We had to curtail baseball only fundraising because of Title IX compliance.

I woudl suggesting look at that link above. It makes clear that funding is definitely not a like-for-like deal. Either every school in the country is cheating, or Title IX doesn't work like you say and like your school thinks it does. Maybe you were fed a line of bull by someone trying to keep people happy...I don't know. What I do know is that there are discrepancies and sometimes large ones for funding by sport at the same school.

I'm not here to tell people how to run their programs or how to do it better or more efficiently. Frankly I have no interest in helping programs become more competitive, especially ones with the built-in advantages southern and western teams have.

Schools are obviously doing it cheaper than the numbers you lay out. It's not my job to tell you how.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: playball on April 07, 2013, 05:27:42 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 07, 2013, 05:19:59 PM

I'm not here to tell people how to run their programs or how to do it better or more efficiently. Frankly I have no interest in helping programs become more competitive, especially ones with the built-in advantages southern and western teams have.

Schools are obviously doing it cheaper than the numbers you lay out. It's not my job to tell you how.

Enlighten us all  with how western teams have built in advantages please
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 05:32:10 PM
Quote from: playball on April 07, 2013, 05:27:42 PM
Enlighten us all  with how western teams have built in advantages please

Tell me you're not serious.

You started playing in February. It's snowing in Minnesota today.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: playball on April 07, 2013, 05:43:25 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 07, 2013, 05:32:10 PM
Quote from: playball on April 07, 2013, 05:27:42 PM
Enlighten us all  with how western teams have built in advantages please

Tell me you're not serious.

You started playing in February. It's snowing in Minnesota today.

Travel.    And now I think its evident why you have such a poor karma score
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 07, 2013, 05:46:01 PM
I am sorry that you can't stand up straight with that chip on your sholder.

There are pro's and con's to everything in life. Weather is not an advantage, it is an enviromental factor. Weather doesn't win game and it doesn't lose games. It only dictates when games are played.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: playball on April 07, 2013, 05:46:43 PM
Also, weather in the NW sucks! 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: playball on April 07, 2013, 05:43:25 PM

Travel.    And now I think its evident why you have such a poor karma score

It's because a sizable group of people a long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away?) intentionally did it. It means nothing to me. Not sure why it means anything to you.

Even some of your West region brethren have said the travel complaints are overblown. Not sure what else I can say. I don't care anymore...complain about it all you want. No one's going to care, no one's going to have sympathy, no one's going to cut you a break.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:00:50 PM
Quote from: playball on April 07, 2013, 05:46:43 PM
Also, weather in the NW sucks!

It's usually playable though, early in the year even. Playing with snow on the ground is pretty well impossible. I've seen games played with air temps below freezing and wind chills well below freezing.

The weather advantage for Cali. and Texas is certainly greater than Oregon though. I'll give you that. In the south they can get outside all year round for the most part.

The other big advantage -- again moreso in TX and CA -- is local talent pool. There's just so much more talent in the south because of the weather factor -- you can just play a lot more growing up down there.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:04:07 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on April 07, 2013, 05:46:01 PM
I am sorry that you can't stand up straight with that chip on your sholder.

There are pro's and con's to everything in life. Weather is not an advantage, it is an enviromental factor. Weather doesn't win game and it doesn't lose games. It only dictates when games are played.

Tell that to the top programs that come from the east coast to play early, often lose a few, but then end up much better by year's end than the teams they lost to early.

Tell the St. Scholastica team that might only have 5 regular season home games this year that weather's not a disadvantage.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 06:07:05 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 07, 2013, 04:46:37 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 04:42:01 PM
Spence who is whining? We have an intelligent discussion and then you start throwing around insults. It really is not necessary.

What insult? Demonstrating absurdity by being absurd is not an insult.

Every time you talk about how things can't be done because of missed class time, academic responsibility etc. when they are being done somewhere else, I'm going to throw it right back in your face. Because it is an insult to the many athletes that do perform in the classroom and on the field and play several ballgames a week and ride a bus and play games on short notice, etc. It can be done, it is being done, and there is no sacrifice of academics being made to do so and for you to suggest otherwise, explicitly or implicitly, is not tolerable to me.

That's what you're going to get, every time, from now on. So I would suggest filing it because it's not going to fly anymore.

I eventually found the tab. The bit about "if baseball gets more, everyone else will" that someone posted earlier doesn't seem to be holding in the data I've looked at so far.

Be careful with the data Spence as it has found to be inaccurate in several of the programs I researched. I  have found that there is no allocation of private money, and only money that is "required to be reported" and I am not sure of the specifics. I know some programs spend a lot more than is being reported there. It is an interesting reference but because of inaccuracies in the data you may end up coming to the wrong conclusion.

I don't understand your logic regarding travel and games/week. Absurd? Why would an administrator put his kids under additional  stress when it is not academically required? Because it is being done someplace else? Not happening.  What do you think any university president is going to say to a coach who suggest they delay their start, compress their games, and move their schedule into finals -  so they have a better chance in a Regional? I know what they will say. "The door is that way coach". I know have them say "because Spence says it is possible on a DIII baseball.com....Now THAT is absurd!

How can you say there is no sacrifice as far as academics in situations you refer to?  I can tell you I know several current DIII ball players who are pursuing  engineering and science degrees and they struggle to keep up both academics and athletics. If you compress their schedules something has to suffer, and it WILL be academics. I understand there may be kids doing it, but they are disadvantaged academically because of it. I would also bet that many can't get their degrees in 4 years, as it is hard enough to do this without athletics.

You were correct that each areas of the country have advantages and disadvantages - this is not going to change.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:14:55 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 06:07:05 PM

Be careful with the data Spence as it has found to be inaccurate in several of the programs I researched. I  have found that there is no allocation of private money, and only money that is "required to be reported" and I am not sure of the specifics. I know some programs spend a lot more than is being reported there. It is an interesting reference but because of inaccuracies in the data you may end up coming to the wrong conclusion.

Honestly, I don't buy this much. I don't think schools would give false data. The numbers for baseball make sense to me with regard to what I would expect to be some of the high-budget programs (Cortland, Montclair, Emory, Whitewater with Kean, Webster, Marietta, St. Thomas, Denison behind that...I'm sure I've left some out because I didn't look at every school, obviously)

I don't understand your logic regarding travel and games/week. Absurd? Why would an administrator put his kids under additional  stress when it is not academically required? Because it is being done someplace else? Not happening.  What do you think any university president is going to say to a coach who suggest they delay their start, compress their games, and move their schedule into finals -  so they have a better chance in a Regional? I know what they will say. "The door is that way coach". I know have them say "because Spence says it is possible on a DIII baseball.com....Now THAT is absurd!

Refer to earlier statement with regard to no longer caring and no one feeling sympathy for you. Just because you choose not to consider options doesn't mean they're not there. The option you lay out is rather absurd...it's also nothing like anything I've said. But you really kicked the crap out of that strawman.

I would be surprised if there is any school where the college/university president is involved in baseball schedules.


How can you say there is no sacrifice as far as academics in situations you refer to?  I can tell you I know several current DIII ball players who are pursuing  engineering and science degrees and they struggle to keep up both academics and athletics. If you compress their schedules something has to suffer, and it WILL be academics. I understand there may be kids doing it, but they are disadvantaged academically because of it. I would also bet that many can't get their degrees in 4 years, as it is hard enough to do this without athletics.

If you say ANYTHING like this again, it's being reported. This is your warning. You do NOT have the right to take swipes at the academics of a school just because they don't do things the way you say they should.

I know one school that competes very well in D-III baseball and has one of the finest departments of petroleum engineering in the country, and some players are petroleum engineering majors and the chair of the department is a big baseball fan. They get it done.

And HOW DARE you CONTINUE to take shots at their work and imply that corners are being cut after NUMEROUS requests to stop? Who the hell do you think you are?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: playball on April 07, 2013, 06:23:26 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:14:55 PM

If you say ANYTHING like this again, it's being reported. This is your warning. You do NOT have the right to take swipes at the academics of a school just because they don't do things the way you say they should.

I know one school that competes very well in D-III baseball and has one of the finest departments of petroleum engineering in the country, and some players are petroleum engineering majors and the chair of the department is a big baseball fan. They get it done.

And HOW DARE you CONTINUE after NUMEROUS requests to take shots at their work and imply that corners are being cut? Who the hell do you think you are?

If they aren't doing things as they should, why shouldn't shots be taken?  As for reported, thats kind of ridiculous.  108 isn't even being all that argumentative.  Relax a little
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: playball on April 07, 2013, 06:23:26 PM

If they aren't doing things as they should, why shouldn't shots be taken?  As for reported, thats kind of ridiculous.  108 isn't even being all that argumentative.  Relax a little

Who said things aren't being done as they should? Do you have some evidence that they're not?

By the way, I reported this post to the moderator pending your evidence. Ball's in your court.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 06:32:09 PM
RE: Academics.

This is basic logic Spence it is not an attack on any person, program or university.

If a player has to play two more games a week, this is a minimum of 10 hours a week not available for academics. If a player has 3-4 labs a week, and you impact those, then a player loses 3 hours for every day lost. You move the baseball season into finals, this is an additional 50 hours in a week taken away from academics. This WILL impact a player, regardless of where they go to school. Kids in the Northeast are doing it but they are disadvantaged to kids who have a season spread out. It is just facts. An administrator will simply not allow this if he does not have to. Now take into account a conferences and multiple schools it simply will not happen.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:36:40 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 06:32:09 PM
RE: Academics.

This is basic logic Spence it is not an attack on any person, program or university.

If a player has to play two more games a week, this is a minimum of 10 hours a week not available for academics. If a player has 3-4 labs a week, and you impact those a player loses 3 hours for every day lost. You move the baseball season into finals, this is an additional 50 hours in a week taken away from academics. This WILL impact a player, regardless of where they go to school. Kids in the North East are doing it but they are disadvantaged to kids who have a season spread out. It is just facts.

No, they are not disadvantaged.

And this post has also been reported. This has gone on long enough. You've insinuated several times now that practically anyone that plays baseball in the east or north is sacrificing education for sports. It's simply baseless other than the strawman arguments you put up and the parameters you yourself impose as if they actually exist.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 07, 2013, 06:38:50 PM
Wow lets all just chill. Some teams have travel budgets and are better endowed and can afford to put more into sports. Others do not. My son went to UTT. That program started athletics in 2004. UTT has been successful in baseball but they do not travel beyond bus range unless they make it to the regionals. That has been the case since 2004 and I don't see it changing anytime soon. Do I like it, no. But that is the case with many, perhaps most DIV III schools. There are always some that are very well endowed and can afford to spend more on all things including sports. UTT has a fine facility that was donated primarily from a wealthy patron. That facility is for both baseball and softball. However, travel is a different issue and the university has restricted it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ThunderShoots on April 07, 2013, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: playball on April 07, 2013, 06:23:26 PM

If they aren't doing things as they should, why shouldn't shots be taken?  As for reported, thats kind of ridiculous.  108 isn't even being all that argumentative.  Relax a little

Who said things aren't being done as they should? Do you have some evidence that they're not?

By the way, I reported this post to the moderator pending your evidence. Ball's in your court.

Ooh - somebody is in trouble now.   ::).

Spence, what fine institution's honor are you defending?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 07, 2013, 06:42:38 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 07, 2013, 04:47:52 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on April 07, 2013, 04:36:02 PM
Spence - don't forget the impact of Title IX. You can not always just spend more for travel without looking at the consiquences of Title IX. Let's just say a west team wants to take an additional trip to get 3-4 more in region games; so just fund raise. Flights, hotels, ground transportation and food a weekend can run $15K to $20k. Now let's factor in Title IX when the school makeup is 60% women and 40% men. The fund raising is now $20K for the baseball team and $23K for the women's program to ensure compliance with Title IX.

The effective cost -- $40 to $45K for that extra trip.

This is not how Title IX works at all. That's all I'm going to say.

Actually, I'm also going to say your numbers are horse hockey. Heidelberg baseball's entire operating expenses in 2011 was a little over $21k, and they make a Florida trip.

I looked at Heidelberg's webpage and see that they did make at 9-day trip to Florida this year. By my estimates; unless they are funding it outside of their reported baseball budget they would have probably used 120% of their operating budget on this trip.

Assuming the following:

9 days of chartered bus at $800 a day (my experience has been they cost closer to $1,200 per day).
9 days at $25 per player and coach for food.
14 hotel rooms (2 per room) at $100 per night for 9 nights.

This alone totals up to nearly $25K and that is before field, game and umpire costs. I am suspect of Heidelberg's operating budget when you factor in the cost of a 9-day Florida trip. My point is cost is a factor for all teams; however, the distances in the west make it a cost which is difficult to wait out until the weather improves.

My point is that travel is expensive and all schools have it. The cold weather schools travel at the beginning of the season to get playing time. The west schools have to travel to ensure that they get enough in region games.

However, once the weather improves the regions where you can get in games without excessive travel have an advantage once you get to how the NCAA evaluates teams. West teams have limited choices as to teams they can play to get their "in region" quota. Yes they get on the field earlier, but in the end they play the same number of games. The difference is there are less options as to teams they can play.

This discussion started with someone speculating as to whether Chapman would be better off as an independant. A great deal has been said which is based upon biased opinion and little on fact. The west is different than the rest of the country only because of the distances that exsists between the three areas where teams are located.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:43:06 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 07, 2013, 06:38:50 PM
Wow lets all just chill. Some teams have travel budgets and are better endowed and can afford to put more into sports. Others do not. My son went to UTT. That program started athletics in 2004. UTT has been successful in baseball but they do not travel beyond bus range unless they make it to the regionals.

24 hours is bus range for teams in Massachusetts on their spring trip. That's why I asked whether schools out west get spring break.

You're right...not many D-III programs fly. But a lot of them bus for a long time at one point or another.

That link shows UT-Tyler as a sort of medium-budget program. (50-60k IIRC).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 07, 2013, 06:48:08 PM
Yes; schools in the west do get spring break. That is when the cold weather schools come to play ;D!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:53:21 PM
Quote from: ILVBB on April 07, 2013, 06:42:38 PM
However, once the weather improves the regions where you can get in games without excessive travel have an advantage once you get to how the NCAA evaluates teams. West teams have limited choices as to teams they can play to get their "in region" quota. Yes they get on the field earlier, but in the end they play the same number of games. The difference is there are less options as to teams they can play.

I'm not going to get into details re: budget numbers. Talk to Heidelberg if you want to know how they do it...if they'll tell you.

But as for the quoted part, it's my view that not everything is being done that could to both increase those in-region opportunities and reduce travel costs associated with doing so.

Two of the three West region conferences are pretty compact aside from one trip or another. The other is a 16-team league so it's pretty hard to expect that to be compact. In the long term, it wouldn't surprise me if the SCAC folds and the ASC absorbs it and splits. Given that they're getting 30ish games without all that much travel within their leagues, I don't see what the problem is with a long trip for several games. Again, it's an annual thing back east, just for a different reason.

If they choose not to do it, fine. But you still have made a choice, as noted Canadian philosopher Geddy Lee once said.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:53:55 PM
Quote from: ThunderShoots on April 07, 2013, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: playball on April 07, 2013, 06:23:26 PM

If they aren't doing things as they should, why shouldn't shots be taken?  As for reported, thats kind of ridiculous.  108 isn't even being all that argumentative.  Relax a little

Who said things aren't being done as they should? Do you have some evidence that they're not?

By the way, I reported this post to the moderator pending your evidence. Ball's in your court.

Ooh - somebody is in trouble now.   ::).

Spence, what fine institution's honor are you defending?

The way I see it, hundreds of them.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 07:03:12 PM
Quote

No, they are not disadvantaged.

And this post has also been reported. This has gone on long enough. You've insinuated several times now that practically anyone that plays baseball in the east or north is sacrificing education for sports. It's simply baseless other than the strawman arguments you put up and the parameters you yourself impose as if they actually exist.

I never said that Spence. The point of these arguments are all about why making a compressed schedule for programs in the West (or South for that matter) will not happen. My points are all about why an administrator is not going to allow this because it will make academics more difficult. It will not happen IMO because of the arguments I layed out.

Of course the corollary to this discussion is that kids in the NE taking difficult majors likely have a more difficult time, which I believe is probably the case. (actually any major for that matter) If you look through some of my previous posts on the subject I have said that I am impressed with the commitment these kids in the NE make because of what they have to go through to compete in baseball on in the classroom.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: playball on April 07, 2013, 07:16:16 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: playball on April 07, 2013, 06:23:26 PM

If they aren't doing things as they should, why shouldn't shots be taken?  As for reported, thats kind of ridiculous.  108 isn't even being all that argumentative.  Relax a little

Who said things aren't being done as they should? Do you have some evidence that they're not?

By the way, I reported this post to the moderator pending your evidence. Ball's in your court.

I'm sure the moderator will review this and see that you are bullying.  My evidence of this is your terrible Karma score. 

Also, many student-athletes feel the pinch of practice time against classroom related activity time.  Obviously it depends on your major, but collegiate sports is a large time commitment.  I'm not saying it can not be done, it can.  I played two collegiate sports and did just fine, but it was very difficult.  And I went to school in Oregon, which this board has said has great weather...(has any of you been to Oregon in February-April?!)   With rainouts/rescheduled games that make for a compressed schedule, I can definitely see how a student who is already pressed for time would find it even harder to complete their studies.  A lot of professors will work with athletes however not all will.  Class time is bound to be missed by athletes, but when a contracted athletic schedule means that class time is missed in chunks of time instead of little by little over time the athlete does suffer.

Its logic.

Also, when someone doesn't agree with you you probably shouldn't go to the moderator all the time.  They most likely have better things to do and its very unbecoming
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: playball on April 07, 2013, 07:18:48 PM
Now, back to baseball.

When do the official west region rankings come out?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2013, 07:31:30 PM
Many schools in the ASC-West will spend 10-12 nights on the road in the course of a season.

McMurry went to notebook computers about 7-8 years ago, so athletes could continue to study while on the road, WIFI on the bus and in the hotel rooms.

I am more inclined to think that smart people have figured out what works and what doesn't.  The West Region has the luxury of decent to great weather beginning on many days in January and February.  The 4-day weekend of the Arizona trip gets everyone together in one place.  Then conference play begins in late February and it is study-conducive schedules.

Northern schools get to travel to Florida for a Spring Training experience.  That is like the "Bigs".  An early concentration of games for players to get into their grooves.

Southern California has no other teams against whom there can be mid-week games.  They have to adapt.  I am glad to "Spring Training" comes to them.

The NWC plays NAIA and D-2's!  Not optimal.  The NWC used to slip down for a series with Chapman.Now that the SCIAC is a 9-team conference, like the NWC, there is an open date every week to fill, NWC vs SCIAC, if desired

The Domino effect of the SCAC will give more variety in the mid-week games as TLU and Schreiner can now be mid-week foes for the ASC West teams.

In the ASC and SCAC you develop your #4 and #5 in the mid-week non-conference games.  Then you "battle-test" them in the double elimination conference tourney.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2013, 07:33:12 PM
I think that West Region Rankings come out April 25th
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 07:33:41 PM
Quote from: playball on April 07, 2013, 07:16:16 PM
Also, when someone doesn't agree with you you probably shouldn't go to the moderator all the time.  They most likely have better things to do and its very unbecoming

Thanks for your concern, but this is actually the first time I've ever done it.

Long story short to the rest of your post...saying it's difficult and poses a challenge is fine. It requires logistic foresight and very good time management not just in the immediate term, but all year round. But it can be done, and is done. I truly think that at least in the programs I've seen, there's no reason a player has to lose out academically as a result of playing baseball.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 07, 2013, 08:10:46 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 05, 2013, 11:52:32 AM
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on April 05, 2013, 08:06:19 AM
Series I'm Looking Forward To This Weekend:

UT Tyler vs. Centenary
Hardin Simmons vs. Chapman
Linfield vs. Pac Lutheran
George Fox vs. Puget Sound

Redlands vs. Oxy (I guess...)

Not a super compelling weekend as none of the top conference teams square off against each other; however, always playoff implications on the line as the top teams need to try and sweep their series in order to stay in contention for a Pool C bid provided (in the case of the of ASC/SCIAC) they don't win their conference tournament.

*UT Tyler & Centenary are both atop their conferences, but Centenary is not playoff eligible and a non-conference opponent for the Patriots.

JSG

The two NWC series are very interesting, indeed.  It will be difficult for either Linfield or G. Fox to sweep - if someone does sweep - on the road, it will be a statement.  Pac Lu's offense has not produced this season, but Beatty and Lubking have the ability to shut anyone down for a game.  Puget Sound has been a scrapper all season in-conference.  They took a game from Linfield, and swept PLU last weekend.  Fox is hot, coming off a sweep of Whitworth, but was nearly swept the previous weekend, losing 2/3 to Whitman.

After a stretch of beautiful weather, the Northwest is looking rainy and cold again - back to normal, but they'll get the games in....

....Crash....Chapman is actually 5 games under .500, at 11-16.

...this thread is starting to kick butt! 

Back to the games, PLU's Lubking absolutely shut down Linfield today, so Linfield takes 2/3 from PLU.  Lubking has got to be one of the top 2 or 3 lefties in the West Region.  And, Puget/George Fox are tied in a rain-suspended game 2 after 9 innings that will be completed tomorrow, along with game 3.  G. Fox took game one.  What a great race.  Lewis and Clark College took 2/3 from Whitworth in Spokane this weekend.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 08:11:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2013, 07:31:30 PM
Many schools in the ASC-West will spend 10-12 nights on the road in the course of a season.

Not many issues with your post, but I would point out that this is about the same as for a team back east with spring trip and a few overnights during the year. Some a few more (I would guess Wooster would be around 16-17), some a few less (the NJ schools might not have an overnight after spring trip).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2013, 08:19:26 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 07, 2013, 08:11:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2013, 07:31:30 PM
Many schools in the ASC-West will spend 10-12 nights on the road in the course of a season.

Not many issues with your post, but I would point out that this is about the same as for a team back east with spring trip and a few overnights during the year. Some a few more (I would guess Wooster would be around 16-17), some a few less (the NJ schools might not have an overnight after spring trip).
For the ASC this is in the middle of the semester, tho' and not on the spring break trip.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 07, 2013, 08:26:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2013, 08:19:26 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 07, 2013, 08:11:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2013, 07:31:30 PM
Many schools in the ASC-West will spend 10-12 nights on the road in the course of a season.

Not many issues with your post, but I would point out that this is about the same as for a team back east with spring trip and a few overnights during the year. Some a few more (I would guess Wooster would be around 16-17), some a few less (the NJ schools might not have an overnight after spring trip).
For the ASC this is in the middle of the semester, tho' and not on the spring break trip.

Don't see where it matters significantly in terms of cost, and given all the consternation about missed class time on this thread, I presumed most of those nights would be on the weekend.

Seems to more or less balance.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 09:56:56 PM
....back to games.

Trinity swept Austin, game 1 yesterday a mercy, today the complete the opposite pitchers dual with TU winning 2-0.

It is funny how teams develop over the season but a solid number 2 has emerged from the shadows at TU with Soph Speers. He is now 5-0 and leads the team in ERA at 1.6 something. They have had so many injuries I am not sure who would be 3-4-5 at this point. Back end of the bullpen is solid.

UTT takes 2-3 from Centenary. A player from Centenary sent me a text saying they played like crax and thought they should have beat UTT. (FWIW what player does NOT think this?) The team is split on who they think is better UTT vs TU. They think TU's number 1 is better, 1-9 they are better and UTT's no 2-3 pitchers are better. From the "put that in your pipe and smoke it" department.

Fun time of year.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on April 07, 2013, 10:52:58 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 07, 2013, 06:43:06 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 07, 2013, 06:38:50 PM
Wow lets all just chill. Some teams have travel budgets and are better endowed and can afford to put more into sports. Others do not. My son went to UTT. That program started athletics in 2004. UTT has been successful in baseball but they do not travel beyond bus range unless they make it to the regionals.

24 hours is bus range for teams in Massachusetts on their spring trip. That's why I asked whether schools out west get spring break.
You're right...not many D-III programs fly. But a lot of them bus for a long time at one point or another.

That link shows UT-Tyler as a sort of medium-budget program. (50-60k IIRC).

The ASC was playing conference games the week of spring break.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on April 07, 2013, 11:06:09 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2013, 09:56:56 PM
....back to games.

Trinity swept Austin, game 1 yesterday a mercy, today the complete the opposite pitchers dual with TU winning 2-0.

It is funny how teams develop over the season but a solid number 2 has emerged from the shadows at TU with Soph Speers. He is now 5-0 and leads the team in ERA at 1.6 something. They have had so many injuries I am not sure who would be 3-4-5 at this point. Back end of the bullpen is solid.

UTT takes 2-3 from Centenary. A player from Centenary sent me a text saying they played like crax and thought they should have beat UTT. (FWIW what player does NOT think this?) The team is split on who they think is better UTT vs TU. They think TU's number 1 is better, 1-9 they are better and UTT's no 2-3 pitchers are better. From the "put that in your pipe and smoke it" department.

Fun time of year.
Not quite the same take I got from one of the Gents players and a couple of the parents....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 08, 2013, 12:56:11 AM
I am really looking forward to Crashes top 6 list tomorrow. Going to be interesting for some bubble teams. I am really interested in the regional rankings when they come out.

Great time of year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2013, 07:21:04 AM
CDD3 TOP 6 for the Regional 4-8-2013

1-Cal Lutheran 22-6-1 **** 15-1 last 16 games
2-Linfield 22-5-1         **** 2 losses in past 4 games
3-Texas-Tyler 25-8      *** Beat Centenary 2 of 3
4-Texas-Lutheran 25-8 * 11-1 in Conference Games
5-Pomona-Pitzer 22-7   * Next 3 games with Linfield
6-Trinity-Texas 26-7    ** Lost 4 games to Centenary * Lost to 6-14 Rockford  Needs to play top ASC Teams some year

On the Bubble
George Fox 20-8  ::) ::) ::)  Still has 3 games with Linfield

What has happen
Chapman 12-17  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Chapman has 10 SCIAC games left to get into the SCIAC tournament....Team averages 4.3 runs scored per game but gives up 5.0 runs per game. 2-9 in last 11 games. Team ERA 4.15. Opponents ERA 3.38. Trouble in the OC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on April 08, 2013, 11:55:36 AM
Crash - Your point that Trinity "needs to play top ASC teams some year" is both valid and very difficult. With the addition of Schreiner and TLU to the SCAC next year Trinity will be eliminating the two closest teams that were previously non-conference west region games. Schreiner and TLU account for 4 or 11 midweek games for the past few years. The number of options for mid-week games will become an issue. This year they are doing a home/home with Concordia (1.5 hour drive - 1 way) and a home/home with Mary Hardin Baylor (3.5 hour drive -1 way) and a single game Hardin Simmons (nearly 4 hour drive). Next year they may need to start looking at overnight trips to get in mid-week games. ASC east teams are all at least a 5-6 hour drive and some are as much as 12 hours. That leaves the only other ASC west teams Howard Payne and Sul Ross which is a 10-hour drive (a little tough for a midweek game).

The only thing that will makes sense for the new SCAC is to change how some of their conference games are scheduled so that the start playing midweek conference games. Also, they will need to get other teams to come to SA for their spring breaks.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: playball on April 08, 2013, 06:10:35 PM
Wow, the SCIAC has really done a number on Chapman since they moved in to the league hasn't it!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 08, 2013, 06:17:03 PM
I would love to see UTT play TU but agree that distance between the two schools limit that to a non-conference weekend. UTT had one of those this past weekend when it played Centennary but in the past those weekends did not exist except for "pre-conference" season in February. San Antonio in February has much better weather than Tyler, so possibly TU could host a tournament and invite some of the traditional West regional powers to it. (Assuming they have the budget).  That would be competing with Arizona though. A bus ride to Arizona (Phoenix) is about 1,200 miles from Tyler and probably too far for UTT. However a bus trip to San Antonio (6 hours) can be done. A compromise point between LA and Tyler would be El Paso, TX which is in range so that city is another possible host for a tournament but is not attractive from a baseball perspective as Phoenix.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 08, 2013, 07:12:31 PM
Just hunted down an update from Tacoma, George Fox just won the suspended-from-Saturday-by-darkness/rain Game 2 over Puget Sound.  Postponed Game 3 in-progress now, but no update yet.  G. Fox now 1/2 back in NWC standings, and with another win today, they are tied with Linfield.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2013, 10:47:13 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 08, 2013, 06:17:03 PM
I would love to see UTT play TU but agree that distance between the two schools limit that to a non-conference weekend. UTT had one of those this past weekend when it played Centennary but in the past those weekends did not exist except for "pre-conference" season in February. San Antonio in February has much better weather than Tyler, so possibly TU could host a tournament and invite some of the traditional West regional powers to it. (Assuming they have the budget).  That would be competing with Arizona though. A bus ride to Arizona (Phoenix) is about 1,200 miles from Tyler and probably too far for UTT. However a bus trip to San Antonio (6 hours) can be done. A compromise point between LA and Tyler would be El Paso, TX which is in range so that city is another possible host for a tournament but is not attractive from a baseball perspective as Phoenix.

Some good idea's to get some games between SCAC and ASC....Neutral site may be the best with 4 teams. 2 from SCAC and 2 from ASC playing.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 09, 2013, 11:30:02 AM
New rankings are out. Find it interesting that Tyler beat Centennary 2 out of 3, the same team that has beaten TU 4 out of 5, and yet fell 3 spots from 13 to 16. In the meantime  TU only fell one spot from 9 to 10.  I am not sure how any of this works at this point. I am guessing that since Centennary is a provisional member winning or loosing to them must not account for much - treated like a non DIV III team?

This is not real important anyway as these rankings have nothing to do with what really matters and that is the regional rankings that don't come out until April 25.

Based on the DIV III poll the regional rankings would be as follows:
1. Linfield
2. Trinity
3. UT Tyler
4. George Fox
5. Cal Lutheran
6. Pomona-Pitzer

Texas Lutheran is mentioned but not ranked

This is certainly different that what Crash shows

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 09, 2013, 12:41:20 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 09, 2013, 11:30:02 AM

Based on the DIV III poll the regional rankings would be as follows:
1. Linfield
2. Trinity
3. UT Tyler
4. George Fox
5. Cal Lutheran
6. Pomona-Pitzer


I do not believe that is the case.  The polls are simply opinion (for the most part) but the Regional Ranking use solid data and formulas.  I don't think it would be too different (especially the teams) than this but I do think it would be different.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 09, 2013, 12:52:06 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 09, 2013, 12:41:20 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 09, 2013, 11:30:02 AM

Based on the DIV III poll the regional rankings would be as follows:
1. Linfield
2. Trinity
3. UT Tyler
4. George Fox
5. Cal Lutheran
6. Pomona-Pitzer


I do not believe that is the case.  The polls are simply opinion (for the most part) but the Regional Ranking use solid data and formulas.  I don't think it would be too different (especially the teams) than this but I do think it would be different.

The order would be almost totally different other than #1 and maybe #3.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on April 09, 2013, 03:05:15 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2013, 07:21:04 AM
CDD3 TOP 6 for the Regional 4-8-2013

1-Cal Lutheran 22-6-1 **** 15-1 last 16 games
2-Linfield 22-5-1         **** 2 losses in past 4 games
3-Texas-Tyler 25-8      *** Beat Centenary 2 of 3
4-Texas-Lutheran 25-8 * 11-1 in Conference Games
5-Pomona-Pitzer 22-7   * Next 3 games with Linfield
6-Trinity-Texas 26-7    ** Lost 4 games to Centenary * Lost to 6-14 Rockford  Needs to play top ASC Teams some year

Team - In region W% - SOS - Record vs ranked opponents (assuming all 7 were to be ranked)
Linfield - .833 - .520 - 0-0
UTT - .786 - .532 - 0-0
GF - .777 - .517 - 1-2 (CLU)
CLU - .767 - .531 - 4-2 (GF 2-1, PP 2-1)
Trinity - .759 - .457 - 1-0 (TLU)
P-P - .750 - .494 - 1-2 (CLU)
TLU - .733 - .458 - 0-1 (Trinity)

The data suggests that GF has a much better case for being ranked than TLU (though any person's rankings needn't be based on data alone).  Since the regional rankings are going to be data driven, it's something to consider.  I'd put CLU above GF today  (due to head to head and everything else being very close) but otherwise, I think things look about right.  Luckily, the regional ranking committee will be getting some good data very soon (P-P vs Linfield, Linfield vs GF) which will make their job easier than it is right now. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 09, 2013, 04:07:35 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on April 09, 2013, 03:05:15 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2013, 07:21:04 AM
CDD3 TOP 6 for the Regional 4-8-2013

1-Cal Lutheran 22-6-1 **** 15-1 last 16 games
2-Linfield 22-5-1         **** 2 losses in past 4 games
3-Texas-Tyler 25-8      *** Beat Centenary 2 of 3
4-Texas-Lutheran 25-8 * 11-1 in Conference Games
5-Pomona-Pitzer 22-7   * Next 3 games with Linfield
6-Trinity-Texas 26-7    ** Lost 4 games to Centenary * Lost to 6-14 Rockford  Needs to play top ASC Teams some year

Team - In region W% - SOS - Record vs ranked opponents (assuming all 7 were to be ranked)
Linfield - .833 - .520 - 0-0
UTT - .786 - .532 - 0-0
GF - .777 - .517 - 1-2 (CLU)
CLU - .767 - .531 - 4-2 (GF 2-1, PP 2-1)
Trinity - .759 - .457 - 1-0 (TLU)
P-P - .750 - .494 - 1-2 (CLU)
TLU - .733 - .458 - 0-1 (Trinity)

The data suggests that GF has a much better case for being ranked than TLU (though any person's rankings needn't be based on data alone).  Since the regional rankings are going to be data driven, it's something to consider.  I'd put CLU above GF today  (due to head to head and everything else being very close) but otherwise, I think things look about right.  Luckily, the regional ranking committee will be getting some good data very soon (P-P vs Linfield, Linfield vs GF) which will make their job easier than it is right now.

+1. This looks about right to me, though I'd probably have CLU leapfrogging both GF & UTT at this point.

I'd also have TLU on the outside looking in right now, but if they win 5 of their next 7 I think they're in the conversation. Though, you win the ASC tournament and you're in regardless.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 09, 2013, 05:27:27 PM
If those numbers are correct, it's hard to imagine CLU outside the top two, maybe even No. 1.

Another note that I'm sure most everyone knows: top 25 polls are not bound by regional ranking criteria, so it stands to reason that they could differ.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 09, 2013, 05:49:46 PM
I'm not at home,. but from memory I think the order in my version of the top 25 has been Linfield (national #1 for 4-5 weeks for me), Cal Lu, UT-Tyler, George Fox. I almost ranked Pomona-Pitzer this week so I guess they'd be my #5.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 10, 2013, 09:55:43 AM
A touching story of a boy that went from batboy to starter after loosing his father.

http://www.uttylerpatriots.com/baseball/news/195/2967/
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 10, 2013, 07:41:27 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on April 09, 2013, 03:05:15 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2013, 07:21:04 AM
CDD3 TOP 6 for the Regional 4-8-2013

1-Cal Lutheran 22-6-1 **** 15-1 last 16 games
2-Linfield 22-5-1         **** 2 losses in past 4 games
3-Texas-Tyler 25-8      *** Beat Centenary 2 of 3
4-Texas-Lutheran 25-8 * 11-1 in Conference Games
5-Pomona-Pitzer 22-7   * Next 3 games with Linfield
6-Trinity-Texas 26-7    ** Lost 4 games to Centenary * Lost to 6-14 Rockford  Needs to play top ASC Teams some year

Team - In region W% - SOS - Record vs ranked opponents (assuming all 7 were to be ranked)
Linfield - .833 - .520 - 0-0
UTT - .786 - .532 - 0-0
GF - .777 - .517 - 1-2 (CLU)
CLU - .767 - .531 - 4-2 (GF 2-1, PP 2-1)
Trinity - .759 - .457 - 1-0 (TLU)
P-P - .750 - .494 - 1-2 (CLU)
TLU - .733 - .458 - 0-1 (Trinity)

The data suggests that GF has a much better case for being ranked than TLU (though any person's rankings needn't be based on data alone).  Since the regional rankings are going to be data driven, it's something to consider.  I'd put CLU above GF today  (due to head to head and everything else being very close) but otherwise, I think things look about right.  Luckily, the regional ranking committee will be getting some good data very soon (P-P vs Linfield, Linfield vs GF) which will make their job easier than it is right now. 

Great data! That's very helpful... Bearing all that in mind my rankings would be:
1. Linfield- After an opening day loss to ULV, all their losses came from three 3-game series where they took 2 of 3.
2. CLU- they're on a tear, similar to Linfield their in-region losses have come from 3 series in which they won 2 of 3 and one where they went 1-1-1.
3. UTT- In-region winning percentage is great, so is SOS. Need to finish strong in the ASC, but they're in the driver's seat.
4. George Fox- Can't ignore their SOS, quality wins, but they could easily drop down and out following the next two weekends against PLU and Linfield
5. P-P- All in-region losses have been in SCIAC and they are the clear cut #2 behind a very strong CLU (their only SCIAC series loss)
6. Trinity- Biggest blow is dropping 4 of 5 to Centenary, but with CU ineligible this year and the win against TLU, they deserve the 6 spot
7. TLU- Weak SOS and lowest winning percentage of the group. No real stand-out wins. Some questionable losses.

8. ULV? 18-9 overall, 15-7 in region
Pros- win against Linfield, Hardin Simmons Cons- Dropped one to CMS (ouch), still have to play CLU, 1-3 against top 6/7 in the West
9. Hardin Simmons? 20-12 overall, 20-12 in region
Pros- Seemingly strong schedule, all in region (I don't have their SOS), dismantled PLU Cons- 1-2 against top 6/7 in the West
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 12, 2013, 11:23:03 AM
Some big series this week w/ post-season implications:

Linfield vs. Pomona
George Fox vs. Pac Lutheran
Texas Lutheran vs. Hardin Simmons

Who ya got, gents?

-JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 12, 2013, 11:31:37 AM
The first team in each list wining 2 out of 3.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 14, 2013, 09:04:35 AM
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on April 12, 2013, 11:23:03 AM
Some big series this week w/ post-season implications:

Linfield sweeps Pomona
George Fox vs. Pac Lutheran
Texas Lutheran sweeps Hardin Simmons

Who ya got, gents?

-JSG

George Fox and Pac Lu are split 1-1, but I think we'll see GFU's Zarosinski against PLU's Lubking today, which *may* favor the Lutes. It looks like all of PLU runs were unearned in their game 2 win, including 4 with two outs in the top of the 6th. Tough loss for GFU.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 14, 2013, 09:07:39 AM
TLU clinches the ASC-West in their last season in the ASC.

They move to the SCAC next year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 14, 2013, 05:08:56 PM
ASC has lost a lot of good teams the past couple of years. McMurry, Centennary, Texas Lutheran and not any joining the conference. Got to wonder if it will be able to continue or will break up. The west division has especially been hit hard as Centenarry was only in the east for a year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 14, 2013, 05:33:06 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 14, 2013, 05:08:56 PM
ASC has lost a lot of good teams the past couple of years. McMurry, Centennary, Texas Lutheran and not any joining the conference. Got to wonder if it will be able to continue or will break up. The west division has especially been hit hard as Centenarry was only in the east for a year.
IMHO, Centenary always was just awaiting the invitation to join Trinity and Southwestern, their fellow members in the Associated  Colleges of the South.  (colleges.org)
I cannot think of any other schools that will move at this time.

The remaining 11 Presidents re-affirmed their commitment to the ASC last fall.

15/16 was always unwieldy.  The ASC could never get enough teams (18 or so) to split into two conferences.

I don't know where the remaining 11 would go.  D-1?  Who is D-1 material?

Who else wants to commit to D-2?  I think that several schools are looking to see how McMurry does in D-2.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 14, 2013, 09:44:45 PM
CDD3 TOP 6 in the West on April 14, 2013

1 - Linfield 26-5
2 - Cal Lutheran 25-6-1
3 - Texas-Lutheran 28-8
4 - Texas-Tyler 28-8
5 - Trinity-Texas 29-7
6 - George Fox 24-9

Outside looking in
Pomona-Pitzer 22-10  :( :( :(

SCIAC, ASC, ASC have conference tournaments to determine Pool A conference bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 14, 2013, 11:06:04 PM
Quote
IMHO, Centenary always was just awaiting the invitation to join Trinity and Southwestern, their fellow members in the Associated  Colleges of the South.  (colleges.org)
I cannot think of any other schools that will move at this time.

The remaining 11 Presidents re-affirmed their commitment to the ASC last fall.

15/16 was always unwieldy.  The ASC could never get enough teams (18 or so) to split into two conferences.

I don't know where the remaining 11 would go.  D-1?  Who is D-1 material?

Who else wants to commit to D-2?  I think that several schools are looking to see how McMurry does in D-2.

The ASC should remain a strong conference, with maybe one or max two more moving to the SCAC. Ralph mentioned in the SCAC forum some time ago that LeTU would be a good fit. A balance of 8-10 teams in each conference would be a good balance for the area. Going to D1/2 is extremely unlikely IMO, too costly and too far to travel for games. You see teams like Centenary and BSC moving away from D1 for a reason.

The challenge for many of these teams are getting in enough non conference games during the week due to the distances. A blend of two conferences in the region will make it easier.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on April 15, 2013, 11:53:42 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 14, 2013, 09:44:45 PM
CDD3 TOP 6 in the West on April 14, 2013

1 - Linfield 26-5
2 - Cal Lutheran 25-6-1
3 - Texas-Lutheran 28-8
4 - Texas-Tyler 28-8
5 - Trinity-Texas 29-7
6 - George Fox 24-9

Outside looking in
Pomona-Pitzer 22-10  :( :( :(

SCIAC, ASC, ASC have conference tournaments to determine Pool A conference bid.

UTT is 29-8
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on April 15, 2013, 12:31:09 PM
Quote from: doodlesdad on April 03, 2013, 03:29:14 PM
but only 1-1 vs. the SCIAC.

Doodlesdad,

You can now update that to 5-1 vs the SCIAC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 15, 2013, 12:51:01 PM
Quote from: Patriotfan87 on April 15, 2013, 11:53:42 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 14, 2013, 09:44:45 PM
CDD3 TOP 6 in the West on April 14, 2013

1 - Linfield 26-5
2 - Cal Lutheran 25-6-1
3 - Texas-Lutheran 28-8
4 - Texas-Tyler 28-8 29-8  ;D
5 - Trinity-Texas 29-7
6 - George Fox 24-9

Outside looking in
Pomona-Pitzer 22-10  :( :( :(

SCIAC, ASC, ASC  and SCAC have conference tournaments to determine Pool A conference bid. NWC is the only one that does not.

UTT is 29-8
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 16, 2013, 12:12:40 PM
Trinity plays TLU today at 3:00. This could be a test of TLU to see if they deserve to be ranked or not.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 16, 2013, 03:48:14 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 16, 2013, 12:12:40 PM
Trinity plays TLU today at 3:00. This could be a test of TLU to see if they deserve to be ranked or not.
Amazing how a team with 28 wins is unranked.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 16, 2013, 03:57:38 PM
From D3Baseball Top 25 voting  4-16-2013

1 Linfield 26-5 
12 Texas-Tyler 29-8
13 Trinity (Texas) 29-7
16 Cal Lutheran 25-6-1
19 George Fox 24-9
26 Texas Lutheran 28-8
35 Pomona-Pitzer 22-10
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 16, 2013, 05:39:52 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 16, 2013, 03:48:14 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 16, 2013, 12:12:40 PM
Trinity plays TLU today at 3:00. This could be a test of TLU to see if they deserve to be ranked or not.
Amazing how a team with 28 wins is unranked.

Amazing how a team with a 307 SOS can be ranked in the top 10.  Trinity and TLU are good teams but you can't hide the fact that their schedules have been extremely weak.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 16, 2013, 05:42:37 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 16, 2013, 12:12:40 PM
Trinity plays TLU today at 3:00. This could be a test of TLU to see if they deserve to be ranked or not.

They do and they are...

TU wins 3-2. Did not see the whole game just picked up the last couple of innings via video. Was told TU was up most of the game 3-1 and TLU loaded the bases in the bottom of the 9th and TU held on to win with a 5-2-3 double play. Starter Alig for TU went 8-1/3 giving up one unearned run.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 16, 2013, 06:45:58 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 16, 2013, 05:42:37 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 16, 2013, 12:12:40 PM
Trinity plays TLU today at 3:00. This could be a test of TLU to see if they deserve to be ranked or not.

They do and they are...

TU wins 3-2. Did not see the whole game just picked up the last couple of innings via video. Was told TU was up most of the game 3-1 and TLU loaded the bases in the bottom of the 9th and TU held on to win with a 5-2-3 double play. Starter Alig for TU went 8-1/3 giving up one unearned run.
Looks like very evenly matched teams....1 swing is the difference in the score...

Too much emphasis is placed on SOS in my opinion. There are many reasons why teams have weak SOS that are way beyond their control. The number 1 reason is the teams in their conference have weak SOS to start with.

Finances and time away from school also can make some trips against teams with good/great records not feasible.

SOS is just one component in determining ranking for the OFFICIAL RANKINGS but not the only one..

If I were making the rules....Winning percentage should be #1....In this order.....In Conference, In Region, In D3, then SOS IMO. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 16, 2013, 07:01:23 PM
I agree with you Crash, in general TU's schedule is in the top 20 in terms of SOS, but this year the stars did not align for them. (I am also not sure if Centenary is calculated in the SOS) However I think it would be beneficial for the program to see if they could fit in the Arizona tournament, as well as attract some of the better teams from the Northeast during the spring break or early season. It was a mistake to schedule 4 games vs Rockford, but it is easy for us to second guess when we don't know the scheduling difficulties in trying to get the better teams in to SA.

That said I do believe that this will be a huge disadvantage for them going into the Regional as they will not have faced enough tough competition.

I do hope that Chapman helps their SOS next year and does not take it down.  8-)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 16, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Centenary counts toward TU's strength of schedule.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 16, 2013, 09:48:46 PM
From a SOS perspective it will help to have TLU joining the conference as now it will have 3 top flight teams with TU, TLU and Centennary. Their gain and the ASC loss. The ASC is also going to loose Mississippi College which is going the D-2 route. The ASC west will be much weaker than it has been in the past as McMurry left this year. The East will still be pretty solid with UTT, UTD and Louisiana College. The top two in the west will likely be Concordia and Hardin Simmons.  The rest of the teams in the east and west have not been among the leaders the past several years. So the ASC teams will have to go outside the conference to keep a decent SOS.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ThunderShoots on April 16, 2013, 09:55:04 PM
TU has bounced back nicely since dropping 2 tough ones at home against Centenary before Easter, winning 6 in a row.  I know, they haven't really played anyone, but they seem to be playing better defense, and their pitching appears to be deeper than in recent years - Speer and Alig have been very impressive since taking on starting roles, the bullpen has been 4 or 5 deep, and Lucero continues to pile up W's as their staff leader (quite a career in San Antonio for the senior, 26-3 overall). 

As many who are smarter than I am have noted on these boards, it is pitching and defense that gets you through the post-season, so maybe this bodes well for the Tigers as the regular season wraps up this weekend.

Just watched the TU vs.TLU replay today - unfortunate dirty play (watch for yourself - it was blatant) to end the game, as TLU batter grounds into 5-2-3 DP and spikes first baseman and cleanup hitter Donnan - they had to help him off the field; hopefully he recovers in time for the conference tournament, as that would be a bad loss for the Tigers.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 16, 2013, 10:04:50 PM
Not the SOS that D3/NCAA will use in Regional Rankings but definitely another view of a team.

http://www.boydsworld.com/baseball/isr/d3_isr.html
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 16, 2013, 11:25:58 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 16, 2013, 09:48:46 PM
From a SOS perspective it will help to have TLU joining the conference as now it will have 3 top flight teams with TU, TLU and Centennary. Their gain and the ASC loss. The ASC is also going to loose Mississippi College which is going the D-2 route. The ASC west will be much weaker than it has been in the past as McMurry left this year. The East will still be pretty solid with UTT, UTD and Louisiana College. The top two in the west will likely be Concordia and Hardin Simmons.  The rest of the teams in the east and west have not been among the leaders the past several years. So the ASC teams will have to go outside the conference to keep a decent SOS.
This week's Around the Nation points out that ASC nonconference schedules will be limited in the near future.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 16, 2013, 11:29:05 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 16, 2013, 10:04:50 PM
Not the SOS that D3/NCAA will use in Regional Rankings but definitely another view of a team.

http://www.boydsworld.com/baseball/isr/d3_isr.html
Interesting that my alma mater, a ranked team no less, didn't even make the list.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 16, 2013, 11:46:31 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 16, 2013, 11:25:58 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 16, 2013, 09:48:46 PM
From a SOS perspective it will help to have TLU joining the conference as now it will have 3 top flight teams with TU, TLU and Centennary. Their gain and the ASC loss. The ASC is also going to loose Mississippi College which is going the D-2 route. The ASC west will be much weaker than it has been in the past as McMurry left this year. The East will still be pretty solid with UTT, UTD and Louisiana College. The top two in the west will likely be Concordia and Hardin Simmons.  The rest of the teams in the east and west have not been among the leaders the past several years. So the ASC teams will have to go outside the conference to keep a decent SOS.
This week's Around the Nation points out that ASC nonconference schedules will be limited in the near future.
I haven't read a secret draft of your ATN, but I bet that I know where 30 ASC conference games are coming from!  Starting about the 7th-8th of February.

If that knocks out the Arizona tournament, then that will really hurt the conference!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 17, 2013, 12:03:06 AM
Can we expect teams to go to MORE conference games to meet the 2014 changes.. SCIAC teams in 2013 will play 28 conference games PLUS Top 4 will play more games in their SCIAC conference tournament.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 17, 2013, 12:10:09 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 17, 2013, 12:03:06 AM
Can we expect teams to go to MORE conference games to meet the 2014 changes.. SCIAC teams in 2013 will play 28 conference games PLUS Top 4 will play more games in their SCIAC conference tournament.
28 is the magic number, provided teams play their 40-game regular season limits.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 17, 2013, 12:24:27 AM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 17, 2013, 12:10:09 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 17, 2013, 12:03:06 AM
Can we expect teams to go to MORE conference games to meet the 2014 changes.. SCIAC teams in 2013 will play 28 conference games PLUS Top 4 will play more games in their SCIAC conference tournament.
28 is the magic number, provided teams play their 40-game regular season limits.

Teams will need to schedule more than 28 D3 games to make sure they cover any cancellations due to weather or other reasons.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: historymajor on April 17, 2013, 12:36:10 PM
Is Trinity the first to notch 30 wins?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 17, 2013, 02:05:57 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 16, 2013, 11:29:05 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 16, 2013, 10:04:50 PM
Not the SOS that D3/NCAA will use in Regional Rankings but definitely another view of a team.

http://www.boydsworld.com/baseball/isr/d3_isr.html
Interesting that my alma mater, a ranked team no less, didn't even make the list.

There are always some errors and omitted games from that ranking. It's very unofficial. But interesting...he may not have enough results from Oshkosh games. Maybe someone isn't sending their games in to the NCAA? :)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ThunderShoots on April 17, 2013, 09:48:40 PM
Quote from: historymajor on April 17, 2013, 12:36:10 PM
Is Trinity the first to notch 30 wins?

I think so, but even if they end at 34 or 35, they haven't beaten anybody... Probably no chance for a Pool C, especially with SCIAC and NWC looking like potential 2-bid conferences.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 17, 2013, 10:33:03 PM
If UT Tyler does not win the ASC conference tournament, I think it has a chance at a pool C bid as long as it goes to at least the semifinals in its tournament. I think they will win 2 out of 3 from Lousiana College to go 31-9 for the regular season and win the ASC East. They shouild also win the first round of the ASC as it is a best of 3 against a low seed West team in Tyler. So they should be 33-9 heading in the the double ellimination. If they go 2-2 in the tournament they will be 35-11. That should be enough but we shall see.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 18, 2013, 12:32:58 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 17, 2013, 10:33:03 PM
If UT Tyler does not win the ASC conference tournament, I think it has a chance at a pool C bid as long as it goes to at least the semifinals in its tournament. I think they will win 2 out of 3 from Lousiana College to go 31-9 for the regular season and win the ASC East. They shouild also win the first round of the ASC as it is a best of 3 against a low seed West team in Tyler. So they should be 33-9 heading in the the double ellimination. If they go 2-2 in the tournament they will be 35-11. That should be enough but we shall see.

TexasBB
Please remember that Regional record and not overall record is the primary criterion.  I calculate that your 35-11 will be a regional record of 31-9.  Over .750 has usually been a very good starting point.

We need to see how many in-region games versus ranked opponents that they have.  Right now, I see no one on the schedule whom I think might be regionally ranked.  TLU in the tourney might be the only team that will be regionally ranked.

That does not help.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 19, 2013, 09:36:22 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 18, 2013, 12:32:58 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 17, 2013, 10:33:03 PM
If UT Tyler does not win the ASC conference tournament, I think it has a chance at a pool C bid as long as it goes to at least the semifinals in its tournament. I think they will win 2 out of 3 from Lousiana College to go 31-9 for the regular season and win the ASC East. They shouild also win the first round of the ASC as it is a best of 3 against a low seed West team in Tyler. So they should be 33-9 heading in the the double ellimination. If they go 2-2 in the tournament they will be 35-11. That should be enough but we shall see.

TexasBB
Please remember that Regional record and not overall record is the primary criterion.  I calculate that your 35-11 will be a regional record of 31-9.  Over .750 has usually been a very good starting point.

We need to see how many in-region games versus ranked opponents that they have.  Right now, I see no one on the schedule whom I think might be regionally ranked.  TLU in the tourney might be the only team that will be regionally ranked.

That does not help.
It will be great next year when we go to a D3 Record as primary record. Then we should less 30+ win teams staying at home come playoff time like it has happen in past years.  I am just not a big advocate of Regional Record being the primary criteria...A game really is a game to me. IMO  D3 Record, Head to Head, Common Opponents, Overall Record then SOS should be used. To much emphasis on SOS. Many teams don't have the luxury of time or money and crystal ball to schedule these games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 19, 2013, 11:48:14 AM
I agree with you Crash and that certainly is going to be the case with the ASC. As Ralph pointed out in an earlier post next year 30 of the 40 games that the ASC has will be among members of the conference.  That leaves 10 games. Of those 10, 5 or 6 will be mid-week fill games against teams that are a bus ride awaw, which leaves 4 or 5 to be covered by pre-conference play in February or early March.  This year UTT hosted Whitworth in a tournament that included Austin College. Whitworth was a pre-season ranked opponent but did not fare so well this year. So you schedule some games with teams in other parts of the region and hope that such scheduling works for both teams from an SOS perspective. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 19, 2013, 03:44:26 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 19, 2013, 11:48:14 AM
I agree with you Crash and that certainly is going to be the case with the ASC. As Ralph pointed out in an earlier post next year 30 of the 40 games that the ASC has will be among members of the conference.  That leaves 10 games. Of those 10, 5 or 6 will be mid-week fill games against teams that are a bus ride awaw, which leaves 4 or 5 to be covered by pre-conference play in February or early March.  This year UTT hosted Whitworth in a tournament that included Austin College. Whitworth was a pre-season ranked opponent but did not fare so well this year. So you schedule some games with teams in other parts of the region and hope that such scheduling works for both teams from an SOS perspective. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
Around the Nation column has it at 33 ASC games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 19, 2013, 04:43:22 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 19, 2013, 03:44:26 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 19, 2013, 11:48:14 AM
I agree with you Crash and that certainly is going to be the case with the ASC. As Ralph pointed out in an earlier post next year 30 of the 40 games that the ASC has will be among members of the conference.  That leaves 10 games. Of those 10, 5 or 6 will be mid-week fill games against teams that are a bus ride awaw, which leaves 4 or 5 to be covered by pre-conference play in February or early March.  This year UTT hosted Whitworth in a tournament that included Austin College. Whitworth was a pre-season ranked opponent but did not fare so well this year. So you schedule some games with teams in other parts of the region and hope that such scheduling works for both teams from an SOS perspective. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
Around the Nation column has it at 33 ASC games.
Ricky, I did not know if Mississippi College would be competing in the ASC next season.

If they are allowed to stay one more year, then the ASC will be a 12-team conference.

I arrived at 30 by having the 11-team conference play the 10 opponents single round robin of a three-game series.

Remaining "West schools"  UMHB, CTX, HPU, HSU and SRSU
Remaining "East schools" UTD, UTT, LeTU, ETBU, UOz, LaCollege.

Thanks.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 19, 2013, 06:26:37 PM
There's a chance an ASC coach got the number wrong, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Patriotfan87 on April 19, 2013, 10:53:54 PM
UTT clinches the ASC East with an 11 inning 8-7 victory over La. College in Pineville.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 23, 2013, 01:38:17 PM
The last D3 poll before the regional rankings came out today. It will be interesting to see how much different the regional rankings will be.  As of now here are the top 6 based on where they rank in the Poll.  I believe these are the 6 teams we will see once the first regional rankings come out but not necessarily in this order. I think most of us would agree on Linfield as the top team in the West and probably would have Cal Luthern 2nd. The rest of the group are fairly even in my book.

Per D3 Poll
Linfield
Trinity
Cal Luthern
Texas Tyler
George Fox
Texas Luthern

Outside looking in - Pomona Pitzer
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on April 23, 2013, 06:33:01 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 23, 2013, 01:38:17 PM
The last D3 poll before the regional rankings came out today. It will be interesting to see how much different the regional rankings will be.  As of now here are the top 6 based on where they rank in the Poll.  I believe these are the 6 teams we will see once the first regional rankings come out but not necessarily in this order. I think most of us would agree on Linfield as the top team in the West and probably would have Cal Luthern 2nd. The rest of the group are fairly even in my book.

Per D3 Poll
Linfield
Trinity
Cal Luthern
Texas Tyler
George Fox
Texas Luthern

Outside looking in - Pomona Pitzer

As you eluded to, I think Linfield and Cal Lu are the clear top 2 teams in the West at this point. I'd put UT-Tyler in the #3 slot at this point considering they took 2 of 3 against Centenary while Trinity is 1-4 against them (the most quality D3 team on both their schedules). The other 3 slots are completely up for grabs IMO. The conference tournaments are going to play a significant role in determining the Pool C bids (there's going to be lots of opportunities for surprises  ;D). George Fox, unfortunately, will have to play the waiting game as their conference season is over now and must hope that their resume is deserving of a Pool C bid (at this point I think it's weakened immensely following the egg they laid against Linfield over the weekend).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 23, 2013, 07:02:52 PM
NW, I agree, unfortunately I really think George Fox hurt their chances this past weekend. 

They did lead game one, 1-0, heading into the bottom of the 8th, when Linfield exploded.  Game two was a blowout, then game three went 13 innings in a low-scoring affair.  So, those two games were quite even, however, the only thing that matters is the final score.  They ended-up with 7 losses in conference play, attesting to the fact that the NWC was a very tricky and tough league this season, as Linfield was the only squad that consistently was able to scratch away to sweep weekend series.

Fox has two games remaining, but they are against NAIA Corban, so they are throw-aways.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 23, 2013, 09:04:09 PM
GFU's going 1-2 versus #1 Linfield would have been plausible.  Getting swept was too much.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 23, 2013, 09:22:21 PM
If George Fox is not a likely C bid then neither is Pomona Pitzer. That opens the door for UT Tyler or Texas Luthern if they fair decent but don't win the ASC conference tournament. The first round of the tournament is this weekend with both teams hosting the #4 seed from the other divisions. I expect both to win. This year the top team in the East will host the double ellimination round. That would mean UTT would get home field advantage if they can beat Hardin Simmons this weekend in a best of 3. (they only lost one series all year and it was last week at Louisiana College after they had clinched the East title by winning in extra innings on Friday).  Texas Luthern has the best overall record in conference play but my sense is the West division is just not as good top to bottom as it had been in recent years. We shall see.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on April 23, 2013, 09:40:19 PM
I agree Ralph. Fox has a lot nice wins on their resume, but they also have some key losses that may inevitably keep them at home for playoffs. 4-0 in Arizona at the start of the season (all against teams who have been middle-of-the-road or better in their conferences) will look favorable as well as a win against Cal Lu (would have been nice if they had at least won one of the two 1-run games they lost however). Getting swept by Linfield, at this point, may appear to be too much. They also lost 2 of 3 in their series against Whitman which doesn't look good either.

I think Fox is going to need a lot of help from other teams in their conference tournaments (i.e. Trinity losing and Cal Lutheran winning).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: playball on April 24, 2013, 10:36:27 AM
I don't think getting swept by Linfield sunk them as much as the Whitman series loss will.  Whitman has been progressing these past few years however they still aren't good.  Being a Wildcat fan, it would be nice to see GFU get a chance at the regional to lose a couple more times!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 24, 2013, 11:34:24 AM
IMHO, going 1-2 to Linfield would have been in their favor and would help with mitigating the Whitman losses.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:00:38 PM
First regional rankings released: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2013/04/25/first-ncaa-regional-rankings-for-2013/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2013/04/25/first-ncaa-regional-rankings-for-2013/)

Linfield number one, Cal Lu at the number two spot, followed by UTT, Trinity, GFU, and Texas Lutheran edges out PP for the 6th spot.

I think the argument between TLU and PP is a very interesting one. Both teams have struggled against the other ranked teams- TLU is 0-2 against Trinity, PP is 1-2 against CLU and 0-3 against Linfield. TLU has a better overall in region W-L (27-10 vs 23-10), but has flubbed a couple series against teams not in the mix- 1-2 vs UT Dallas, 2-2 vs Concordia Texas, and a solo loss to Ozarks.

I think the fact the only two series PP hasn't won against West region teams were against the two best teams (even if the Linfield series was ugly), but not getting sweeps against Whittier, Redlands, Oxy, ULV, or Chapman hurts. A 3-0 or two in there somewhere helps in a lot of ways, and not getting a sweep hints at their question marks on the bump.

TLU has the ASC tournament left to play, which can add up to a lot of games (up to 9, with each round consisting of a best of three series). PP has SCIAC games against Occidental, La Verne, and Whittier before the SCIAC tournament starts (they will be the #2 seed). Should come down to the wire, and both teams will certainly be paying attention and hoping Linfield and Trinity take care of business in their conference tournaments.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 25, 2013, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:00:38 PM
Should come down to the wire, and both teams will certainly be paying attention and hoping Linfield and Trinity take care of business in their conference tournaments.

Teddy, the NWC does not have a conference tournament, so Linfield is the automatic bid by virtue of winning the conference.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 25, 2013, 04:20:21 PM
Changes could occur next week based on records against regionally ranked teams. RAC's don't necessarily know the rankings of other regions, and records vs. RR teams were not listed along with the first set of rankings.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:00:38 PM
First regional rankings released: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2013/04/25/first-ncaa-regional-rankings-for-2013/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2013/04/25/first-ncaa-regional-rankings-for-2013/)
Should come down to the wire, and both teams will certainly be paying attention and hoping Linfield and Trinity take care of business in their conference tournaments.

Scratch that- looks like there isn't a post season tournament in the NWC. Linfield is ahead 4 spots in the loss column with 5 conference games left to play. They are pretty much a shoe in. The way I see it right now-
1. Linfield- Definitely in, NWC champion/Pool A
2. Cal Lu- Definitely in, SCIAC tournament still to be played/Pool A or Pool C?
3. UTT- ASC tournament still to be played, UTT or TLU or both will be Pool C candidates
4. Trinity- Should win SCAC tournament/Pool A
5. George Fox- Needs a Pool C
6. TLU- ASC tournament still to be played, UTT or TLU or both will be Pool C candidates

7. PP- 3 conference games, plus conference tournament

The ASC tournament, with it's opportunity to add 4 losses to a team's in-region record is a big question mark. If UTT doesn't get the auto bid, do they rack up enough losses to put themselves on the bubble? If TLU doesn't get the auto bid, do the losses that come with the tournament have enough of a negative impact on their record to bump them?

Also- is GFU pretty safe at this point? They only have games left against Corban (non D3?). And what about Trinity? If they do lose in their conference tournament, I assume they still get a Pool C?

The other thing I often forget to account for is that Pool C's are given out nationally... there's always the chance that the West gets 5 or 7 teams total, regardless of the fact that the rankings always include 6.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:35:27 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 25, 2013, 04:20:21 PM
Changes could occur next week based on records against regionally ranked teams. RAC's don't necessarily know the rankings of other regions, and records vs. RR teams were not listed along with the first set of rankings.

Thank you, I didn't realize that! Makes the GFU-PP debate a little more interesting...

GFU has:
The same in-region winning percentage as PP (23-10)
The exact same record against Linfield (0-3) and CLU (1-2) who are regionally ranked, while PP also is 1-0 vs regionally ranked Ithaca
An 8-2 record against their other common opponents while PP is 10-3

On paper I think this is an interesting matchup. GFU has the benefit (or the curse) of watching from the sidelines as PP finishes up their season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 25, 2013, 04:40:41 PM
Quote
And what about Trinity? If they do lose in their conference tournament, I assume they still get a Pool C?

This year Trinity has the easiest path to the Regionals since Centenary is not eligible for postseason play. They can come in 2nd and still make it. If they don't do this they will not get a bid IMO.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 25, 2013, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:00:38 PM
First regional rankings released: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2013/04/25/first-ncaa-regional-rankings-for-2013/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2013/04/25/first-ncaa-regional-rankings-for-2013/)
Should come down to the wire, and both teams will certainly be paying attention and hoping Linfield and Trinity take care of business in their conference tournaments.

Scratch that- looks like there isn't a post season tournament in the NWC. Linfield is ahead 4 spots in the loss column with 5 conference games left to play. They are pretty much a shoe in. The way I see it right now-
1. Linfield- Definitely in, NWC champion/Pool A
2. Cal Lu- Definitely in, SCIAC tournament still to be played/Pool A or Pool C?
3. UTT- ASC tournament still to be played, UTT or TLU or both will be Pool C candidates
4. Trinity- Should win SCAC tournament/Pool A
5. George Fox- Needs a Pool C
6. TLU- ASC tournament still to be played, UTT or TLU or both will be Pool C candidates

7. PP- 3 conference games, plus conference tournament

The ASC tournament, with it's opportunity to add 4 losses to a team's in-region record is a big question mark. If UTT doesn't get the auto bid, do they rack up enough losses to put themselves on the bubble? If TLU doesn't get the auto bid, do the losses that come with the tournament have enough of a negative impact on their record to bump them?

Also- is GFU pretty safe at this point? They only have games left against Corban (non D3?). And what about Trinity? If they do lose in their conference tournament, I assume they still get a Pool C?

The other thing I often forget to account for is that Pool C's are given out nationally... there's always the chance that the West gets 5 or 7 teams total, regardless of the fact that the rankings always include 6.



Yep the only thing can screw this list above is upset winners for Pool A bids for the ASC, or SCIAC or SCAC....Someone could stay home if that happens. The West last year did not even get enough teams to fill their 6 team regional. NCAA shipped a team from outside the region to the West Regional. A few years back Linfield got shipped to another regional and the West had 2 teams in Appleton.

George Fox and Pomona-Pitzer are on the bubble and any upset Pool A winners for SCAC, SCIAC or ASC will cause them to stay home. Also if Trinty does not win or finish 2nd in the SCAC tourney they get to stay home also...Linfield and Cal Lu are the only locks right now for the West Regional IMO.

Also being Regionally Ranked does not guarantee you will get a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 25, 2013, 05:10:13 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:00:38 PM
First regional rankings released: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2013/04/25/first-ncaa-regional-rankings-for-2013/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2013/04/25/first-ncaa-regional-rankings-for-2013/)
Should come down to the wire, and both teams will certainly be paying attention and hoping Linfield and Trinity take care of business in their conference tournaments.

Scratch that- looks like there isn't a post season tournament in the NWC. Linfield is ahead 4 spots in the loss column with 5 conference games left to play. They are pretty much a shoe in.

Just for clarification, Linfield has already clinched. They only have three conference games left.  The last two games against conference opponents on the first weekend in May are "non-conference" add-on games that a number of NWC teams (excluding GFU) are playing to fill-out their schedules.

Overall this year, NWC teams were 18-12-1 versus the SCIAC.  Might this be a tiny factor tipping the scales toward GFU over PP?  I don't even know if something like this is even looked at?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 05:27:21 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 25, 2013, 05:10:13 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:00:38 PM
First regional rankings released: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2013/04/25/first-ncaa-regional-rankings-for-2013/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2013/04/25/first-ncaa-regional-rankings-for-2013/)
Should come down to the wire, and both teams will certainly be paying attention and hoping Linfield and Trinity take care of business in their conference tournaments.

Scratch that- looks like there isn't a post season tournament in the NWC. Linfield is ahead 4 spots in the loss column with 5 conference games left to play. They are pretty much a shoe in.

Just for clarification, Linfield has already clinched. They only have three conference games left.  The last two games against conference opponents on the first weekend in May are "non-conference" add-on games that a number of NWC teams (excluding GFU) are playing to fill-out their schedules.

Overall this year, NWC teams were 18-12-1 versus the SCIAC.  Might this be a tiny factor tipping the scales toward GFU over PP?  I don't even know if something like this is even looked at?

I'm learning a lot today! Thanks for the clarification.

I don't know that the NWC record vs SCIAC would be an official criterion, but it's gotta be something that would show itself indirectly in other categories- particularly OWP and OOWP. I know if I personally had to rank the two teams, I probably have GFU ahead (barely) for reasons I have trouble articulating but I think have a lot to do with the record you cite. I think it's a pretty decent sample too- it doesn't include CMS or Cal Tech.

Still, I think ultimately I would rather be PP and still have a chance to make their case on the field. I'm not sure what exactly the Hens would need to do in the last 3 round robin games and conference tournament to pull ahead of GFU, but winning out (even excepting a loss to CLU in the championship) would probably do it. Trouble is, ULV, Oxy, and Whittier have all taken a game from them this year so it won't be easy.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 25, 2013, 05:32:01 PM
Just for clarificaiton on the ASC tournament. There are a total of 8 teams involved 4 from each division. It is broken into 2 rounds. In the first round The top seed in each division Texas Lutheran in the West and UT Tyler in the East, host the 4th seed from the opposing division in a best of 3 series taking place this weekend. The other games have the #2 seed from each division hosting a game against the #3 seed from the opposing division. The 4 winners of this round then play a double ellimination tournament the following week. The host team for that round is the highest remaining seed from the East division. So if UT Tyler beats Hardin-Simmons in its best of 3 this weekend it will host the double ellimination round.

No team can loose more than 3 games. (Go 2-1 in the opening round and loose twice in the double ellimination round.)
No team can do better than go 5-0 to win both rounds. In theory a team could go 7-2 and win the tournament ( 2-1 in the first round and 5-1 in and win the second round) however, that is highly unlikely.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 05:47:05 PM
Does anybody have any sleeper teams that we haven't been discussing who could make a run for a bid in the regional? At this point, I think the 6 ranked teams and PP are the only ones with a legitimate shot at a Pool C. Maybe you can throw Occidental in as a (very) long shot if they win out and lose to CLU in the SCIAC championship.

But are there any teams from the SCAC, SCIAC, or ASC who could pull out an upset in the conference tournament? Louisiana College, for instance, seems to be playing pretty decent ball going into the ASC tournament and haven't lost a conference series in months.

And thank you TexasBB for the clarification on ASC tournament rules. They are definitely unique... but I probably should have looked these things up before posting :-[ How are the 4 remaining teams seeded for the double elimination round? Is it by overall conference record?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 25, 2013, 05:48:20 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 05:27:21 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 25, 2013, 05:10:13 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:00:38 PM
First regional rankings released: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2013/04/25/first-ncaa-regional-rankings-for-2013/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3baseball/2013/04/25/first-ncaa-regional-rankings-for-2013/)
Should come down to the wire, and both teams will certainly be paying attention and hoping Linfield and Trinity take care of business in their conference tournaments.

Scratch that- looks like there isn't a post season tournament in the NWC. Linfield is ahead 4 spots in the loss column with 5 conference games left to play. They are pretty much a shoe in.

Just for clarification, Linfield has already clinched. They only have three conference games left.  The last two games against conference opponents on the first weekend in May are "non-conference" add-on games that a number of NWC teams (excluding GFU) are playing to fill-out their schedules.

Overall this year, NWC teams were 18-12-1 versus the SCIAC.  Might this be a tiny factor tipping the scales toward GFU over PP?  I don't even know if something like this is even looked at?

I'm learning a lot today! Thanks for the clarification.

I don't know that the NWC record vs SCIAC would be an official criterion, but it's gotta be something that would show itself indirectly in other categories- particularly OWP and OOWP. I know if I personally had to rank the two teams, I probably have GFU ahead (barely) for reasons I have trouble articulating but I think have a lot to do with the record you cite. I think it's a pretty decent sample too- it doesn't include CMS or Cal Tech.

Still, I think ultimately I would rather be PP and still have a chance to make their case on the field. I'm not sure what exactly the Hens would need to do in the last 3 round robin games and conference tournament to pull ahead of GFU, but winning out (even excepting a loss to CLU in the championship) would probably do it. Trouble is, ULV, Oxy, and Whittier have all taken a game from them this year so it won't be easy.

I agree.  As they say in golf, its often nice to be "in the clubhouse early" with a good score, but in this case, I bet GFU wishes they had 2 or 3 D3 games left of the "non-conference conference" ilk to strengthen (or weaken I suppose, if they lose) their position.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: retired on April 25, 2013, 05:49:55 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong about the SCAC, but Trinity is only guaranteed a bid with a second place finish if Centenary wins. Second place to anyone else and that team gets the Pool A.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 25, 2013, 06:14:27 PM
For the double elimination round in the ASC tournament seeding is determined by the highest remaining seeds that won in the first round. So if both #1 seeds advance they will play the lower seed. In this case if UTT and Tex Lu both win the first round UTT would play the lowest seeded remaining team since it is the host school.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 25, 2013, 06:18:17 PM
Quote from: retired on April 25, 2013, 05:49:55 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong about the SCAC, but Trinity is only guaranteed a bid with a second place finish if Centenary wins. Second place to anyone else and that team gets the Pool A.

That is correct.  I just don't see anyone other than Trinity getting the bid but if it is someone else, Trinity's chances are pretty much shot.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 25, 2013, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:35:27 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 25, 2013, 04:20:21 PM
Changes could occur next week based on records against regionally ranked teams. RAC's don't necessarily know the rankings of other regions, and records vs. RR teams were not listed along with the first set of rankings.

Thank you, I didn't realize that! Makes the GFU-PP debate a little more interesting...

GFU has:
The same in-region winning percentage as PP (23-10)
The exact same record against Linfield (0-3) and CLU (1-2) who are regionally ranked, while PP also is 1-0 vs regionally ranked Ithaca
An 8-2 record against their other common opponents while PP is 10-3

On paper I think this is an interesting matchup. GFU has the benefit (or the curse) of watching from the sidelines as PP finishes up their season.
The NCAA has GFU with a better record and a better SOS than PP.
GFU 23-10, .543
PP 23-11, .519

GFU's SOS is fourth in the region. The top three? MS College .568; Linfield .559; Whitworth .558.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 07:20:51 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 25, 2013, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:35:27 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 25, 2013, 04:20:21 PM
Changes could occur next week based on records against regionally ranked teams. RAC's don't necessarily know the rankings of other regions, and records vs. RR teams were not listed along with the first set of rankings.

Thank you, I didn't realize that! Makes the GFU-PP debate a little more interesting...

GFU has:
The same in-region winning percentage as PP (23-10)
The exact same record against Linfield (0-3) and CLU (1-2) who are regionally ranked, while PP also is 1-0 vs regionally ranked Ithaca
An 8-2 record against their other common opponents while PP is 10-3

On paper I think this is an interesting matchup. GFU has the benefit (or the curse) of watching from the sidelines as PP finishes up their season.
The NCAA has GFU with a better record and a better SOS than PP.
GFU 23-10, .543
PP 23-11, .519

GFU's SOS is fourth in the region. The top three? MS College .568; Linfield .559; Whitworth .558.

Thank you. I had been omitting a PP loss to Buena Vista while in Arizona, thinking it was out of region. But I recall hearing somewhere that the AZ tournament now counts as in region (granted, my math for their record would still have been off).

Taking your input into account, PP going 4-1 with only a loss to CLU still may not be enough to jump GFU. Doing so would bring their records to a near tie (GFU 23-10, .696 WP; PP 27-12, .692 WP), and while the rest of their schedule will likely boost PP's SOS, probably not enough to bring them in line with Fox. And my previous comment points to the rest of the relevant numbers looking like a wash.

Regardless of the comparisons between PP and Fox and PP and TLU, the Hens still get the opportunity to go out this weekend and next weekend and take the decision out of the hands of some committee by winning the SCIAC tournament. Their destiny is still in their own hands.

Where are the NCAA's numbers available by the way?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 25, 2013, 07:26:00 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 25, 2013, 05:32:01 PM
Just for clarificaiton on the ASC tournament. There are a total of 8 teams involved 4 from each division. It is broken into 2 rounds. In the first round The top seed in each division Texas Lutheran in the West and UT Tyler in the East, host the 4th seed from the opposing division in a best of 3 series taking place this weekend. The other games have the #2 seed from each division hosting a game against the #3 seed from the opposing division. The 4 winners of this round then play a double ellimination tournament the following week. The host team for that round is the highest remaining seed from the East division. So if UT Tyler beats Hardin-Simmons in its best of 3 this weekend it will host the double ellimination round.

No team can loose more than 3 games. (Go 2-1 in the opening round and loose twice in the double ellimination round.)
No team can do better than go 5-0 to win both rounds. In theory a team could go 7-2 and win the tournament ( 2-1 in the first round and 5-1 in and win the second round) however, that is highly unlikely.

TexasBB
Not picking on you TexasBB, but my randomly associated brain wonders:

If a team only needs one "L" to be eliminated in a single elimination tourney format,
then does a team need 2 "L's" to be elliminated in a double ellimination tourney format?   :)

(Anyway, that is why I use Firefox with the built-in spell check as my browser of preference.   ;)  )

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 25, 2013, 07:28:01 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 07:20:51 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 25, 2013, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 04:35:27 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 25, 2013, 04:20:21 PM
Changes could occur next week based on records against regionally ranked teams. RAC's don't necessarily know the rankings of other regions, and records vs. RR teams were not listed along with the first set of rankings.

Thank you, I didn't realize that! Makes the GFU-PP debate a little more interesting...

GFU has:
The same in-region winning percentage as PP (23-10)
The exact same record against Linfield (0-3) and CLU (1-2) who are regionally ranked, while PP also is 1-0 vs regionally ranked Ithaca
An 8-2 record against their other common opponents while PP is 10-3

On paper I think this is an interesting matchup. GFU has the benefit (or the curse) of watching from the sidelines as PP finishes up their season.
The NCAA has GFU with a better record and a better SOS than PP.
GFU 23-10, .543
PP 23-11, .519

GFU's SOS is fourth in the region. The top three? MS College .568; Linfield .559; Whitworth .558.

Thank you. I had been omitting a PP loss to Buena Vista while in Arizona, thinking it was out of region. But I recall hearing somewhere that the AZ tournament now counts as in region (granted, my math for their record would still have been off).

Taking your input into account, PP going 4-1 with only a loss to CLU still may not be enough to jump GFU. Doing so would bring their records to a near tie (GFU 23-10, .696 WP; PP 27-12, .692 WP), and while the rest of their schedule will likely boost PP's SOS, probably not enough to bring them in line with Fox. And my previous comment points to the rest of the relevant numbers looking like a wash.

Regardless of the comparisons between PP and Fox and PP and TLU, the Hens still get the opportunity to go out this weekend and next weekend and take the decision out of the hands of some committee by winning the SCIAC tournament. Their destiny is still in their own hands.

Where are the NCAA's numbers available by the way?
Buena Vista and PP are both in administrative region #4.  That is why the game is in-region.    ;)

See the FAQ tab on the front page of D3baseball.com.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on April 25, 2013, 07:28:11 PM
Click a region at the bottom of the rankings at ncaa.com.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 25, 2013, 08:16:47 PM
For de computr illerterate (I missed spelld dat on purpos)

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/regional_rankings
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 25, 2013, 08:21:03 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on April 25, 2013, 07:28:11 PM
Click a region at the bottom of the rankings at ncaa.com.

Ah... thanks again!

Using the data here as a base I played around with some numbers- even with an optimistic outlook of how the final games go for each team, I can't see PP's SOS climbing above .530. Makes jumping Fox pretty tough.

TLU is still definitely within striking distance. Their record is better, but their SOS is pretty darn low (.484). And they could easily rack up 3 losses in the ASC tournament...

Of course, as Crash mentioned earlier, this only for regional rankings which obviously don't guarantee any bids.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 29, 2013, 02:40:49 AM
Trinity punches their ticket to the postseason, joining Linfield (who had a 3-0 weekend) in Pool A. This is good news for possible Pool C teams in the West and around the country.

In the ASC, all the higher seeds advanced to the double elimination weekend. UTT will have home field advantage and should be the favorite for Pool C squads not wishing to have to compete against them for a bid. TLU improves their resume with a 2-0 weekend.

In the SCIAC, the tournament field is set. Cal Lutheran went 3-1 on the week (24-4 in conference) and is the convincing 1 seed. Pomona Pitzer was 3-1 on the week (20-8 overall) and grabbed the two seed. Redlands had a couple big wins to grab the 3 seed (17-11 overall), and Occidental (16-11 with a game to play) will be the 4 seed. The tournament will be held over three days, double elimination with the higher seed hosting the opening round.

My updated regional rankings:
1. Linfield 30-4 (NWC Pool A)
2. Cal Lutheran 30-7-1 (If not SCIAC Pool A, lock for Pool C)
3. Trinity 32-7 (SCAC Pool A)
4. UT-Tyler 28-8 (Driver's seat for a Pool A from the ASC)
5. George Fox 23-10 (Pool C contender, no games left)
6. Texas Lutheran 29-10 (Still in running for ASC Pool A, also contender for Pool C)
7. Pomona Pitzer 26-12 (Still in running for SCIAC Pool A, need help for Pool C)

My only change from last week's initial rankings is flipping Trinity and UTT. Trinity went undefeated in the SCAC tournament, and twice beat a Centenary team that had their number in the regular season. Not a knock against Tyler, who won both their games and have the ASC finale this weekend.
George Fox and TLU have to be happy about Trinity, but will definitely need to keep rooting for conference favorites around the country to feel safe. I think Tyler is pretty much a lock even if they don't win the ASC, but two losses for TLU would really hurt. George Fox is in a pretty good spot too, with no chance of damaging their pretty strong resume. Pomona Pitzer can only be thinking about taking the SCIAC tournament, they would need a ton of help for a Pool C.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 29, 2013, 08:35:35 AM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 29, 2013, 02:40:49 AM
Trinity punches their ticket to the postseason, joining Linfield (who had a 3-0 weekend) in Pool A. This is good news for possible Pool C teams in the West and around the country.

In the ASC, all the higher seeds advanced to the double elimination weekend. UTT will have home field advantage and should be the favorite for Pool C squads not wishing to have to compete against them for a bid. TLU improves their resume with a 2-0 weekend.

In the SCIAC, the tournament field is set. Cal Lutheran went 3-1 on the week (24-4 in conference) and is the convincing 1 seed. Pomona Pitzer was 3-1 on the week (20-8 overall) and grabbed the two seed. Redlands had a couple big wins to grab the 3 seed (17-11 overall), and Occidental (16-11 with a game to play) will be the 4 seed. The tournament will be held over three days, double elimination with the higher seed hosting the opening round.

My updated regional rankings:
1. Linfield 30-4 (NWC Pool A)
2. Cal Lutheran 30-7-1 (If not SCIAC Pool A, lock for Pool C)
3. Trinity 32-7 (SCAC Pool A)
4. UT-Tyler 28-8 (Driver's seat for a Pool A from the ASC)
5. George Fox 23-10 (Pool C contender, no games left)
6. Texas Lutheran 29-10 (Still in running for ASC Pool A, also contender for Pool C)
7. Pomona Pitzer 26-12 (Still in running for SCIAC Pool A, need help for Pool C)

My only change from last week's initial rankings is flipping Trinity and UTT. Trinity went undefeated in the SCAC tournament, and twice beat a Centenary team that had their number in the regular season. Not a knock against Tyler, who won both their games and have the ASC finale this weekend.
George Fox and TLU have to be happy about Trinity, but will definitely need to keep rooting for conference favorites around the country to feel safe. I think Tyler is pretty much a lock even if they don't win the ASC, but two losses for TLU would really hurt. George Fox is in a pretty good spot too, with no chance of damaging their pretty strong resume. Pomona Pitzer can only be thinking about taking the SCIAC tournament, they would need a ton of help for a Pool C.

Good stuff, Teddy.

Just a couple of record adjustments.
1. Linfield 32-5 (NWC Pool A)
2. Cal Lutheran 31-7-1 (If not SCIAC Pool A, lock for Pool C)
3. Trinity 36-7 (SCAC Pool A)
4. UT-Tyler 32-10 (Driver's seat for a Pool A from the ASC)
5. George Fox 26-12 (Pool C contender, no games left)
6. Texas Lutheran 32-10 (Still in running for ASC Pool A, also contender for Pool C)
7. Pomona Pitzer 27-12 (Still in running for SCIAC Pool A, need help for Pool C)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 29, 2013, 09:55:55 AM
Teddy Ballgame cited the REGIONAL record which is the primary criteria.  +1, Teddy! :)

Overall record, cited by JSG, is secondary criteria.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 29, 2013, 11:49:46 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 29, 2013, 09:55:55 AM
Teddy Ballgame cited the REGIONAL record which is the primary criteria.  +1, Teddy! :)

Overall record, cited by JSG, is secondary criteria.

Totally missed that. Thanks for the clarification, Ralph!

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 29, 2013, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 29, 2013, 02:40:49 AM
Trinity punches their ticket to the postseason, joining Linfield (who had a 3-0 weekend) in Pool A. This is good news for possible Pool C teams in the West and around the country.

In the ASC, all the higher seeds advanced to the double elimination weekend. UTT will have home field advantage and should be the favorite for Pool C squads not wishing to have to compete against them for a bid. TLU improves their resume with a 2-0 weekend.

In the SCIAC, the tournament field is set. Cal Lutheran went 3-1 on the week (24-4 in conference) and is the convincing 1 seed. Pomona Pitzer was 3-1 on the week (20-8 overall) and grabbed the two seed. Redlands had a couple big wins to grab the 3 seed (17-11 overall), and Occidental (16-11 with a game to play) will be the 4 seed. The tournament will be held over three days, double elimination with the higher seed hosting the opening round.

My updated regional rankings:
1. Linfield 30-4 (NWC Pool A)
2. Cal Lutheran 30-7-1 (If not SCIAC Pool A, lock for Pool C)
3. Trinity 32-7 (SCAC Pool A)
4. UT-Tyler 28-8 (Driver's seat for a Pool A from the ASC)
5. George Fox 23-10 (Pool C contender, no games left)
6. Texas Lutheran 29-10 (Still in running for ASC Pool A, also contender for Pool C)
7. Pomona Pitzer 26-12 (Still in running for SCIAC Pool A, need help for Pool C)

My only change from last week's initial rankings is flipping Trinity and UTT. Trinity went undefeated in the SCAC tournament, and twice beat a Centenary team that had their number in the regular season. Not a knock against Tyler, who won both their games and have the ASC finale this weekend.
George Fox and TLU have to be happy about Trinity, but will definitely need to keep rooting for conference favorites around the country to feel safe. I think Tyler is pretty much a lock even if they don't win the ASC, but two losses for TLU would really hurt. George Fox is in a pretty good spot too, with no chance of damaging their pretty strong resume. Pomona Pitzer can only be thinking about taking the SCIAC tournament, they would need a ton of help for a Pool C.

Good Job Teddy !! Great breakdown

I get to sit and watch the rest of the West in 2013 as Chapman fails to make playoffs for the 2nd year in a row after reaching the 2011 NCAA Championship game. Losing record and with the Head Coach still suspended not sure where the program will be in 2014.  I attended 4 Regionals (2007, 2008, 2009, 2010) 4 World Series in Appleton(2007, 2008, 2009, 2011).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 29, 2013, 12:46:03 PM
I think the SCIAC Tournament should be a very exciting 3 days.  I was looking at all 4 teams and their records to see how they did against each other.  Here is a very simple breakdown.

1. CLU- 7-2 overall against the other tournament teams
    2-1 vs Pomona
    2-1 vs Redlands
    3-0 vs Oxy

2. Pomona- 5-5 overall against the other tournament teams
    1-2 vs CLU
    2-1 vs Redlands
    2-2 vs Oxy

3. Redlands- 4-6 overall against the other tournament teams
    1-2 vs CLU
    1-2 vs Pomona
    2-2 vs Oxy

4. Oxy- 4-7 overall against the other thournament teams
    0-3 vs CLU
    2-2 vs Pomona
    2-2 vs Redlands

It's pretty interesting that there was only 1 sweep out of all of these games and I think the tournament is going to be extremely competitive.  I am curious who Oxy will throw on Friday since they switched it up a little this weekend but who knows if that really means anything.  I do feel like Oxy has the most depth on the mound and we will see if that helps in the long run.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 29, 2013, 02:00:00 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 29, 2013, 12:46:03 PM
It's pretty interesting that there was only 1 sweep out of all of these games and I think the tournament is going to be extremely competitive.  I am curious who Oxy will throw on Friday since they switched it up a little this weekend but who knows if that really means anything.  I do feel like Oxy has the most depth on the mound and we will see if that helps in the long run.
Agreed on Oxy's depth on the mound. If you look at their pitching stats this year, pretty much everyone they've thrown out there (and that's a lot of guys) has had success. Starters and relievers almost all have ERA's sitting in the 2.00's and 3.00's. That bodes well if they can get into the later stages, but it doesn't help that they have to start the tournament at Cal Lu- the only team that didn't really have any problems hitting the Oxy pitching staff.

And call me a homer, but I've actually been pretty impressed with the depth of the Sagehens' staff as the year has progressed. Injuries to Rosenbaum and Yen after they had been fantastic in the rotation, plus the chronic injuries to Guy Stevens who would almost certainly have been in the starting rotation if healthy, have allowed for some other pitchers to grab more innings and sharpen their stuff. Collin Majev, for instance, had a great start against La Verne yesterday and may be a key to success in the tournament. And despite all the injuries, the Hens were still 2nd in SCIAC (behind Oxy) in overall ERA at 3.33.

CLU has had three good starters, but Habden and Peters both struggled this weekend. Roth has been fantastic in relief, but their depth in the bullpen is a little questionable (by the numbers anyway). The Kingsmen are pretty much a guaranteed to put up runs, but if opposing teams can keep pace and get into their bullpen they've got a shot.

And on the subject of pitching and depth, I think Redlands is in the toughest spot coming into the tournament. Smith and Hart are both good, experienced pitchers but their team ERA was almost 5 this season and the bullpen looks shaky. If those two get knocked out early, the Bulldogs are gonna have a really tough time staying alive.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 29, 2013, 04:43:02 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 29, 2013, 02:00:00 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 29, 2013, 12:46:03 PM
It's pretty interesting that there was only 1 sweep out of all of these games and I think the tournament is going to be extremely competitive.  I am curious who Oxy will throw on Friday since they switched it up a little this weekend but who knows if that really means anything.  I do feel like Oxy has the most depth on the mound and we will see if that helps in the long run.
Agreed on Oxy's depth on the mound. If you look at their pitching stats this year, pretty much everyone they've thrown out there (and that's a lot of guys) has had success. Starters and relievers almost all have ERA's sitting in the 2.00's and 3.00's. That bodes well if they can get into the later stages, but it doesn't help that they have to start the tournament at Cal Lu- the only team that didn't really have any problems hitting the Oxy pitching staff.

And call me a homer, but I've actually been pretty impressed with the depth of the Sagehens' staff as the year has progressed. Injuries to Rosenbaum and Yen after they had been fantastic in the rotation, plus the chronic injuries to Guy Stevens who would almost certainly have been in the starting rotation if healthy, have allowed for some other pitchers to grab more innings and sharpen their stuff. Collin Majev, for instance, had a great start against La Verne yesterday and may be a key to success in the tournament. And despite all the injuries, the Hens were still 2nd in SCIAC (behind Oxy) in overall ERA at 3.33.

CLU has had three good starters, but Habden and Peters both struggled this weekend. Roth has been fantastic in relief, but their depth in the bullpen is a little questionable (by the numbers anyway). The Kingsmen are pretty much a guaranteed to put up runs, but if opposing teams can keep pace and get into their bullpen they've got a shot.

And on the subject of pitching and depth, I think Redlands is in the toughest spot coming into the tournament. Smith and Hart are both good, experienced pitchers but their team ERA was almost 5 this season and the bullpen looks shaky. If those two get knocked out early, the Bulldogs are gonna have a really tough time staying alive.

I predict the best hitting team win win not the deepest pitching. What happens in tournaments like this is everyone seems to run out of pitching at some point in this tournament. Cal Lu leads the SCIAC in Hitting, Runs Scored and Fielding, and 3rd in team ERA. Tough to beat Cal Lu and the Weekend games are at Cal Lu.

http://www.thesciac.org/sports/bsb/2012-13/teams?sort=r&r=0&pos=h
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 29, 2013, 06:22:03 PM
This:
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 29, 2013, 11:56:29 AM
I attended 4 Regionals (2007, 2008, 2009, 2010) 4 World Series in Appleton(2007, 2008, 2009, 2011).
Makes me take you pretty darn seriously here:
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 29, 2013, 04:43:02 PM

I predict the best hitting team win win not the deepest pitching. What happens in tournaments like this is everyone seems to run out of pitching at some point in this tournament. Cal Lu leads the SCIAC in Hitting, Runs Scored and Fielding, and 3rd in team ERA. Tough to beat Cal Lu and the Weekend games are at Cal Lu.

http://www.thesciac.org/sports/bsb/2012-13/teams?sort=r&r=0&pos=h

Haha and I think you're right... to a point. In my experience on a couple very good teams that fell short at the regionals, depth on the mound was pretty important. You need guys out of the pen who can keep you in a game if and when a starter falters. One or two very good starting pitchers are great in getting you to the final stages, but they can't win it for you.

The other big thing in this double elimination tournament, and I think it supports your point Crash, is that it can be won in three games. So a Cal Lu can approach this like a regular season SCIAC series and use their three main starters with support from their best few arms out of the pen and theoretically win it all by going out and pounding the baseball without having to really dig too deep in their pitching staff (note: the numbers indicate that their staff is still pretty good. I'm not trying to take away from what their pitching has done. I'm just asserting that if there is some weakness on this team, it could be bullpen depth. Which is a weakness on pretty much any D3 baseball team.)

What would be difficult for me as a coach would be wrestling with when to use certain pitchers, knowing that I may well need someone to start a fourth game. My best long relief guy might also be my go-to #4 starter, but do I want to risk not putting him on the mound in the first or second game of the tournament just because there may be a fourth game? I tend to think you do whatever you can to win immediately in a tournament or regional, and worry about the rest later. But do you want to risk completely depleting your staff in the process?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 30, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
The rankings have been updated on D3baseball and by the ABCA for the week. Linfield still holds the top spot nationally in both polls (duh!), and all six regionally ranked teams plus Pomona Pitzer are at least receiving votes in both poles.

D3baseball.com (previous ranking)
1. Linfield (1)
8. Trinity Tx (9)
11. Cal Lutheran (11)
17. Texas-Tyler (17)
Ranking extrapolated for those receiving votes:
28. Texas Lutheran (30)
29. George Fox (29)
42. Pomona Pitzer (31)

ABCA
1. Linfield (1)
3. Trinity Tx (7)
8. Cal Lutheran (6)
17. Texas-Tyler (17)
22. George Fox (25)
27. Texas Lutheran (27)
30. Pomona-Pitzer (rv/32)

Trinity jumps up in both polls after their very impressive SCAC tournament championship and regional qualification. Everyone else pretty much stays steady- with the exception of P-P who lost a ton of votes from d3baseball, but jumped back in the rankings on ABCA.

It will be interesting to see if this order holds for the regional rankings. I imagine CLU will still be in the 2 spot, but Trinity should have at least jumped UTT. GFU didn't play, so do they drop behind TLU after TLU's 2-0 weekend performance? I wouldn't think so, but I do think it's safe to say PP is still on the outside looking in.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 30, 2013, 07:19:03 PM
Of course Trinity had a good series and the wins over Centenary reversed some of the "bad outings" from earlier in the season.

Wheaton MA and Webster did not have weeks a good as one might expect.  Marietta's strength  "softened" a bit.

Lots of juggling in the mid-pack.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 30, 2013, 07:20:29 PM
I have P-P at RV T-39, a 4-way tie.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 03, 2013, 03:12:02 PM
I see that the second Regional rankings have been publised:
West Region
1 Linfield 30-4 32-5
2 Cal Lutheran 30-7-1 31-7-1
T3 Texas-Tyler 26-8 30-10
T3 Trinity (Texas) 32-7 36-7
5 George Fox 23-10 26-12
6 Texas Lutheran 29-10 32-10

I note that there is an error with respect to Texas-Tyler.  They did not credit them with the 2-0 record beating Hardin-Simmons over last weekend in the first round of the ASC tournament. UTT should be 28-8 in region and 32-10 overall. I am not sure if that would have mattered in the ranking or not.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 03, 2013, 04:43:26 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 03, 2013, 03:12:02 PM
I see that the second Regional rankings have been publised:
West Region
1 Linfield 30-4 32-5
2 Cal Lutheran 30-7-1 31-7-1
T3 Texas-Tyler 26-8 30-10
T3 Trinity (Texas) 32-7 36-7
5 George Fox 23-10 26-12
6 Texas Lutheran 29-10 32-10

I note that there is an error with respect to Texas-Tyler.  They did not credit them with the 2-0 record beating Hardin-Simmons over last weekend in the first round of the ASC tournament. UTT should be 28-8 in region and 32-10 overall. I am not sure if that would have mattered in the ranking or not.

TexasBB
I wonder if those wins happened after the regional deadline and maybe they will be included in this weeks ranking.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2013, 04:48:42 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on May 03, 2013, 04:43:26 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 03, 2013, 03:12:02 PM
I see that the second Regional rankings have been publised:
West Region
1 Linfield 30-4 32-5
2 Cal Lutheran 30-7-1 31-7-1
T3 Texas-Tyler 26-8 30-10
T3 Trinity (Texas) 32-7 36-7
5 George Fox 23-10 26-12
6 Texas Lutheran 29-10 32-10

I note that there is an error with respect to Texas-Tyler.  They did not credit them with the 2-0 record beating Hardin-Simmons over last weekend in the first round of the ASC tournament. UTT should be 28-8 in region and 32-10 overall. I am not sure if that would have mattered in the ranking or not.

TexasBB
I wonder if those wins happened after the regional deadline and maybe they will be included in this weeks ranking.
The committee considers games thru April 28.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 04, 2013, 11:52:56 PM
Tyler probably clinched at least a Pool C playoff spot today by beating Texas Lutheran convincingly 11-3. They can finish no worse than second in the tournament. With this win their regional record improves to 30-8. They are in the driver's seat for a Pool A as they are in the finals and have saved most of the bullpen. The loser's bracket winner tonight will have to beat them twice tomorrow and the pitching staffs of either Louisiana College or Texas Lutheran will be spent. Tyler has shown opportunistic offense and solid defense thus far.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 05, 2013, 05:15:35 PM
Patriots win the title with a 10-4 win over Louisiana College. They get the ASC Pool A spot in the regionals.

It remains to be seen if Texas Lutheran will get a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2013, 05:29:40 PM
CLU  clinched with 10-6 win over P-P. P-P probably helped their cause getting to the championship game. West is filling in now and it will be interesting to see how P-P, TLU, and GF compare to another team that might get shipped into the West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 05, 2013, 08:17:29 PM
1) NWC Pool A - Linfield
2) SCIAC Pool A - Cal Lutheran
3) SCAC Pool A - Trinity Texas
4) ASC Pool A - Texas - Tyler
5) Pool C ?
6) Pool C ?

Possible in the West George Fox, Texas Lutheran, Pomona Pitzer
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 05, 2013, 08:50:05 PM
I would guess that if UT-T was tied with Trinity in the regional rankings last week that their undefeated performance in the ASC championships will propel them to third this week.

TLU going 1-2 in those same championships may be the death knell to their NCAA hopes. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2013, 09:02:35 PM
Does it really matter 3 or 4? 1 vs 6, 2 vs 5, etc. Unless they go to 8 in the region I guess.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 06, 2013, 02:21:43 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2013, 09:02:35 PM
Does it really matter 3 or 4? 1 vs 6, 2 vs 5, etc. Unless they go to 8 in the region I guess.
Not really since...Look back in 2009 to see what the seed was of the team that won it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 02:44:46 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 06, 2013, 02:21:43 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2013, 09:02:35 PM
Does it really matter 3 or 4? 1 vs 6, 2 vs 5, etc. Unless they go to 8 in the region I guess.
Not really since...Look back in 2009 to see what the seed was of the team that won it.

Well if you look all the way back to 2012, the 3 seed won it ;) but your point is well taken and I don't think seeding had anything to do with it.

The seeding advantage only really seems to matter in game one, as the higher seed is the home team (I believe). We can argue about whether that's a significant advantage or not, but if it is, it only matters for the first game. After that they try and balance it so that everyone plays approximately half home and half away for the tournament.

The other advantage, in theory, is being the #1 seed. They get to start with the 6 seed (not as big an advantage this year without any surprise Pool A teams in the field, unless one gets shipped in) and they get to play a team with a loss in their second game, potentially making their road to the championship a tad easier. But last year, Concordia won their first game and then lost to La Verne- a 4 seed who had lost to #3 Whitworth in their first game. And then Concordia was bounced in their next game. So in a tournament where everyone is pretty strong, the seeding doesn't really seem to be much of an advantage in itself. Higher seeds winning is an indication that they have a better team, rather than an indication that there's any inherent advantage in being a higher seed based on tournament format.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 06, 2013, 03:29:22 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 02:44:46 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 06, 2013, 02:21:43 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2013, 09:02:35 PM
Does it really matter 3 or 4? 1 vs 6, 2 vs 5, etc. Unless they go to 8 in the region I guess.
Not really since...Look back in 2009 to see what the seed was of the team that won it.

Well if you look all the way back to 2012, the 3 seed won it ;) but your point is well taken and I don't think seeding had anything to do with it.

The seeding advantage only really seems to matter in game one, as the higher seed is the home team (I believe). We can argue about whether that's a significant advantage or not, but if it is, it only matters for the first game. After that they try and balance it so that everyone plays approximately half home and half away for the tournament.

The other advantage, in theory, is being the #1 seed. They get to start with the 6 seed (not as big an advantage this year without any surprise Pool A teams in the field, unless one gets shipped in) and they get to play a team with a loss in their second game, potentially making their road to the championship a tad easier. But last year, Concordia won their first game and then lost to La Verne- a 4 seed who had lost to #3 Whitworth in their first game. And then Concordia was bounced in their next game. So in a tournament where everyone is pretty strong, the seeding doesn't really seem to be much of an advantage in itself. Higher seeds winning is an indication that they have a better team, rather than an indication that there's any inherent advantage in being a higher seed based on tournament format.
In 2009 #6 seed beat #1 seed in Game 1. All teams are good in the regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 06, 2013, 03:30:56 PM
Does the Pool C bids come from the West or does the West get shutout and Pool C's fly in from other regions  ??? ???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 04:32:56 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 06, 2013, 03:29:22 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 02:44:46 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 06, 2013, 02:21:43 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2013, 09:02:35 PM
Does it really matter 3 or 4? 1 vs 6, 2 vs 5, etc. Unless they go to 8 in the region I guess.
Not really since...Look back in 2009 to see what the seed was of the team that won it.

Well if you look all the way back to 2012, the 3 seed won it ;) but your point is well taken and I don't think seeding had anything to do with it.

The seeding advantage only really seems to matter in game one, as the higher seed is the home team (I believe). We can argue about whether that's a significant advantage or not, but if it is, it only matters for the first game. After that they try and balance it so that everyone plays approximately half home and half away for the tournament.

The other advantage, in theory, is being the #1 seed. They get to start with the 6 seed (not as big an advantage this year without any surprise Pool A teams in the field, unless one gets shipped in) and they get to play a team with a loss in their second game, potentially making their road to the championship a tad easier. But last year, Concordia won their first game and then lost to La Verne- a 4 seed who had lost to #3 Whitworth in their first game. And then Concordia was bounced in their next game. So in a tournament where everyone is pretty strong, the seeding doesn't really seem to be much of an advantage in itself. Higher seeds winning is an indication that they have a better team, rather than an indication that there's any inherent advantage in being a higher seed based on tournament format.
In 2009 #6 seed beat #1 seed in Game 1. All teams are good in the regional.

Actually the #6 seed did NOT beat the #1 seed in 2009. Source: I played in that game. PP beat Hendrix. Still, 2009 is both a good and bad example of how seeding is important. Being the #1 seed that year allowed us to play Hendrix who had like .500 record in the regular season. But we did lose our next game, to a GFU team that lost their first game to Chapman (as you probably remember   ;)). After that first game, seeding didn't mean diddly-squat. We were bounced by a Chapman team that we went 3-0 against in the regular season, and who- as a lower seed- were still obviously very good and played like the best team in the tournament.

Now, I think this year the #6 will be a lot stronger (barring the shipment of a "weak" Pool A from somewhere else) and I still do agree with your point that all teams will be good. Looking at specific years gives us too small a sample size to make generalizations, but I imagine that the one seed wins less often than statistical analysis would suggest.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 06, 2013, 03:30:56 PM
Does the Pool C bids come from the West or does the West get shutout and Pool C's fly in from other regions  ??? ???

Depending on how other conference tournaments go in the rest of the country, George Fox seems like a pretty good Pool C candidate. Tough to imagine TLU or PP getting a Pool C though, so you have to imagine at least one outside team getting shipped in.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 06, 2013, 04:43:05 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 06, 2013, 03:30:56 PM
Does the Pool C bids come from the West or does the West get shutout and Pool C's fly in from other regions  ??? ???
I think two teams get shipped in if there are any upsets in this weekend's conf tournaments. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 06, 2013, 05:20:09 PM
I think you are right Tigerfan. GF did not do themselves a favor by dropping 3 to Linfield, not that they just lost but in two games they got blown out. UTT would likely get a bid if they lose, which is not likely. Looking at the "PoolC" thread it looks like TLU is toast.

Correction, just saw that UTT won the ASC so it looks like two teams will likely get shipped in...now which two?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 06, 2013, 07:00:52 PM
 >:(

I am so totally against shipping teams into this regional. We have the most spread out regional and very light representation as it is. To say that there are only 4 teams in the entire region deserving of a chance to complete for the national championship is a pure insult to all the conferences and all the teams. I am from Texas and don't follow the California and Northwest conferences as closely. But I do know a little about the ASC. We have a diverse group of schools scattered from Mississippi to West Texas. Texas Lutheran did not fare as well as they had wished but they still had a very fine record. The ASC championship lasted two weekends and they finished 3-2 in the tournamnent. In the final round they spit with Louisiana College and lost to UTT. But they still won 33 games this year and won 30 of those in the West Region. P-P and George Fox had good seasons this year as well. Not quite as good as TLU from a total regional record but worthy of consideration and probably tougher schedules. So I would hope that 2 of those 3 make it. I will be upset if they don't.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 07:30:18 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 06, 2013, 05:20:09 PM
I think you are right Tigerfan. GF did not do themselves a favor by dropping 3 to Linfield, not that they just lost but in two games they got blown out. UTT would likely get a bid if they lose, which is not likely. Looking at the "PoolC" thread it looks like TLU is toast.

Correction, just saw that UTT won the ASC so it looks like two teams will likely get shipped in...now which two?

If you look at George Fox's in-region record and SOS, I think they stack up pretty well against other Pool C contenders from around the country. They will also leap frog a few of those schools that lose two games in conference tournaments this weekend. I think ultimately, they are probably among the last three Pool C's in- unless there are a ton of surprise Pool A qualifiers this coming weekend. The biggest strike against them is the 1-5 record against regionally ranked teams, but bear in mind that those six games are against the top two teams in the region. It's unfortunate for them that Concordia, UT Dallas, La Verne, and Redlands all had disappointing seasons because sweeping those teams in Arizona was a great start and could have added some balance to the record against regionally ranked opponents.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 07:56:52 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 06, 2013, 07:00:52 PM
>:(

I am so totally against shipping teams into this regional. We have the most spread out regional and very light representation as it is. To say that there are only 4 teams in the entire region deserving of a chance to complete for the national championship is a pure insult to all the conferences and all the teams. I am from Texas and don't follow the California and Northwest conferences as closely. But I do know a little about the ASC. We have a diverse group of schools scattered from Mississippi to West Texas. Texas Lutheran did not fare as well as they had wished but they still had a very fine record. The ASC championship lasted two weekends and they finished 3-2 in the tournamnent. In the final round they spit with Louisiana College and lost to UTT. But they still won 33 games this year and won 30 of those in the West Region. P-P and George Fox had good seasons this year as well. Not quite as good as TLU from a total regional record but worthy of consideration and probably tougher schedules. So I would hope that 2 of those 3 make it. I will be upset if they don't.

I agree with you to a point. The West seems to have a comparatively high quality in their upper/middle of the conference teams- George Fox, Pac Lu, PP, Redlands, La Verne, Chapman, Texas Lutheran, Louisiana, Concordia, UT Dallas, Centenary, etc. Basically, most of the West region conferences have a bevy of teams that can steal games and come out and beat someone on any given day. But it's tough finding more than 4 or 5 teams in the conference that really stand out. Everyone else just beats up on each other because the talent is well distributed. 

Throw in other factors- the Cal Techs/Southwesterns destroying SOS numbers, geographic isolation, etc it makes it difficult to find any quantitative means of defending teams from the West against other teams in the Pool C discussion. But using the SCIAC as an example, there's a pretty compelling argument that the West is underrated and underrepresented.
Ithaca (New York #1) was 1-3 against SCIAC teams
Kean (Mid-Atlantic #1) was 2-3 against SCIAC teams
Bridgewater (South #4) was 1-3 against SCIAC teams

Bear in mind that PP and CLU only contributed two wins to those numbers and only Cal Tech isn't represented in those games. All three out of region teams had fewer games played than their SCIAC opponents, but all still had at least four games under their belts to get the kinks out.

I'm not sure if there was much else by way of West vs the rest competition this year... but I'll try to look into it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2013, 08:01:44 PM
Let's be honest about the Ithaca and Kean games.  They were spring training games 3,000 miles and 3 time zones away from home against mid-season teams playing on their own fields.

I think that Kean and Ithaca did pretty well.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 06, 2013, 08:15:49 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2013, 08:01:44 PM
Let's be honest about the Ithaca and Kean games.  They were spring training games 3,000 miles and 3 time zones away from home against mid-season teams playing on their own fields.

I think that Kean and Ithaca did pretty well.

This issue of the West Region potentially having no Pool C's, etc. is an interesting issue relative to the overall standing of D3 athletics in the West that I believe has been discussed in detail on these boards, possibly in the football section.  California and Texas, and to a lesser extent, the Pacific Northwest are absolute hotbeds of baseball talent.  Typically, there are more high school MLB draftees from California and Texas than any other state, with Florida also in the running.  Additionally, there are far more highly skilled high school players than there are D1 and D2 roster spots in these regions, particularly California.  Thus, you see a ton of California players on D1 rosters throughout the country.

Given this glut of D1 talent, it follows that there would also be a glut of D3 talent in these states.

Contrast this glut of talent with the scarcity of D3 schools in CA, OR, WA and TX.  Add to that, there are zero D3 baseball program in AZ, CO, etc., and you would think that most every D3 program in the West would be absolutely loaded with talent, as there are so many players potentially vying for so few squads.

You watch any high quality Southern California high school baseball game, and you'll likely see a small handful of guys (the impact players who are not draft picks or D1 guys) that you'll think could be solid to high impact D3 players – but so many of them, in fact the vast majority, do not play D3 baseball.

However, in the Midwest, East and Northeast, where there are so many more D3 baseball schools per-capita, and "per available talent", it seems, those regions frankly seem to field stronger overall regions and teams.  I'm certain there are a lot of dynamics to this, but I think a large component is that D3 baseball lacks a "BRAND" in the West, relative to capturing the mindshare and interest of high percentages of high quality high school players.  I think this pertains not only to D3 baseball, but football and basketball in the West as well.

My net-net is, given the amount of high school baseball talent in the West Region, there should be no reason for at least 8 West region teams every year, to be strong enough to qualify for a regional bid.  The only reason I can really see is that simply not enough of those players choose "D3" in comparison to other regions.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on May 06, 2013, 08:41:08 PM
There is much talent in the SoCal area. But, with at least 50 D1, D2, NAIA and JC schools vying for the talent, it does get dilluted quickly.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 06, 2013, 08:43:39 PM
Quote from: dahlby on May 06, 2013, 08:41:08 PM
There is much talent in the SoCal area. But, with at least 50 D1, D2, NAIA and JC schools vying for the talent, it does get dilluted quickly.

Relative to D3, I think the JC's and just "not playing" after HS are the biggest competition. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 09:12:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2013, 08:01:44 PM
Let's be honest about the Ithaca and Kean games.  They were spring training games 3,000 miles and 3 time zones away from home against mid-season teams playing on their own fields.

I think that Kean and Ithaca did pretty well.

I understand that. But I can tell you it's not that big a disadvantage. Certainly not enough to excuse going 1-3 or 2-3 against 4 different SCIAC teams. If they were only playing PP and CLU, that would be one thing. But between those two teams, they played 6 different SCIAC teams and not one of them was Cal Lu.

I played on a PP team that was ranked first in the country, in the middle of our season going into a game against Middlebury. It was their first game of the season, and day on an outdoor field. They won the first game of the doubleheader. Ultimately, it's all baseball. Teams may have kinks to work out, but you can't tell me that anyone on the field is treating the game any differently than if it were in the middle or end of the season. And they may not get as much outdoor time, but they're not sitting on their butts either. Would Ithaca and Kean go 3-6 against that schedule right now? Probably not. But given where they are ranked, it would be reasonable to expect the best team in a particular region to go 6-3 or 7-2 against a schedule of teams centered in the middle of another region. And there's no way there's a 3 or 4 game swing from March to May.

Also, Bridgewater was well into their season when they went 1-3.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 06, 2013, 09:21:40 PM
Many of the DIII schools, at least in Texas, have a bunch of JC transfers and some DI and DII transfers as well. Remember JC is just 2 years. Traditionally the ASC has recrutied many second year JUCO players. With only 11.7 scholarships to spread around some of the DI players are not receiving much and not playing as much as they would like. A DIII school can attract them with more playing time. A school like UT Tyler has an advantage in that area since it is a State University that typically has offered academic aid to Juco transfers. Being a State school it is not as expensive as the private schools. (Same is true with UT Dallas). When my son went to UT Tyler a few years ago almost 1/2 the roster were transfers in. One of the big attractions was playing time as well as being seen by scouts if they wanted to continue to play after college which some do every year in the independent minor leagues. So dilution is not as big of an issue as you might think. What the DIII teams don't get are the best HS players or even the middle tier at least not at first. Many kids will opt for the JUCO route as it keeps them draft eligible and many sitll harbor thoughts of playing for a top tier D1 program. Once reality sets in they then aim for the nest best and in many cases that is DIII. Its all about recruiting and selling your program.

TexasBB










Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 09:25:02 PM
Looked at West region conference schedules (apparently I'm pretty bored today) to see the overall numbers against out-of-region opponents. Off the bat, I'll say that there are probably too few games to be statistically significant and there are a lot of factors to consider- namely that most of these are at the West region team's home field or a neutral site and there are often differences in how far into the season each team is. And the NWC is hurt because only Lewis and Clark played those kinds of games. But still interesting to look at.

SCIAC: 18-11 against non-region D3 opponents.
Cal Tech didn't play any of those games, and the breakdown was 6 vs Rutgers, 5 vs Kean, 4 vs Bridgewater, 4 vs Ithaca, 3 vs North Park, 2 against Gust. Adolphus, and one each against Wisc La Cross, Wisc. Superior, Luther, and Macalester. Pretty good selection of teams, and the games were well distributed amongst the SCIAC schools.

ASC: I may have missed some but I counted 9-3 vs non region D3 opponents.
4-0 against Huntingdon (Mississippi College 3-0, Ozarks 1-0) who is 1st in the South Regional rankings
2-1 vs DeSales (wins for UMHB and TLU, loss for Schreiner) who had over 30 wins playing in the Mid Atlantic region.
Other opponents were Wheaton (1-2 vs TLU), Iowa Wesleyan, and Wartburg.
*I'm guessing there were probably more South region teams on the schedule that I missed and I welcome anyone to correct my numbers.

NWC: it looks like the only non region D3 games all came from Lewis and Clark who went 3-5 in Arizona with wins against Iowa Wesleyan, Wesleyan (Conn.), and St. John's (Minn.) and losses against Wartburg (2), Middlebury, Williams, and St. Johns.

SCAC teams went 4-2 vs non region D3 opponents. Trinity was 4-1 (1-0 vs DeSales, 3-1 vs Rockford), Centenary 0-1 (North Central).

Add it all up and the West region went 34-21 against all other regions. And overall, those games were against pretty high quality opponents. But does that number mean anything? Well maybe not a whole lot given all the factors mentioned previously, but I do think it counts for something.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 10:03:26 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 09:25:02 PM
Add it all up and the West region went 34-21 against all other regions. And overall, those games were against pretty high quality opponents. But does that number mean anything? Well maybe not a whole lot given all the factors mentioned previously, but I do think it counts for something.

And for those of you wondering what the West has done against non-region opponents when it matters, the West has a total record of 28-26 in the D3 World series since 2000- many thanks to Chapman. That includes Championships in 2003 (Chapman) and 2004 (George Fox). A .519 winning percentage and two championships in 13 years is just barely above average. The most titles for a region during that timespan is 3, by the Midwest (St. Thomas x2, UW Whitewater), and the Mid East (Marietta x3).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: historymajor on May 07, 2013, 02:20:58 PM
Teddy... wrong Trinity/ wrong Centenary.  Trinity went 3-4 and Centenary (transitioning from D1) is in West anyway.  New SCAC member from Shreveport, LA
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 07, 2013, 02:25:21 PM
 :D :D :D ;D ;) 8-)

Quote from: historymajor on May 07, 2013, 02:20:58 PM
Teddy... wrong Trinity/ wrong Centenary.  Trinity went 3-4 and Centenary (transitioning from D1) is in West anyway.  New SCAC member from Shreveport, LA

Another case of East Coast bias...

Ba-da-bum  ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 07, 2013, 03:03:25 PM
A good example of a team in the West who beat quality teams. Chapman was down this year. 1 Senior, Head Coach being suspended then resigning, Losing #1,#2 pitchers to injuries and most of the pitching staff and many position players starting as freshman

BUT

They got wins over
Kean, Trinity, Cal Lu all in the top 10 along with a close loss to Ithaca who is number 10.

IF.....Chapman can return their players and IF they can get a quality coach MAYBE then can return to the ranks of top teams in the West

BUT ALOT OF IF's...... ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on May 07, 2013, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: historymajor on May 07, 2013, 02:20:58 PM
Teddy... wrong Trinity/ wrong Centenary.  Trinity went 3-4 and Centenary (transitioning from D1) is in West anyway.  New SCAC member from Shreveport, LA

History Major - Not sure if you interpreted his post like he meant it to be read.  Trinity (Tx) is 4-1 against non-West Region opponents.  They went 3-1 vs Rockford (who is 15-11 since their series with Trinity and awful start and actually counts as an in-region opponent for Trinity)  and 1-0 vs Desales.  Centenary was the other team in the SCAC that played non-west region opponents.  They went 0-1 vs North Central (Ill).  So the SCAC conference went 4-2 vs non-west region teams. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 07, 2013, 03:08:59 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 09:12:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2013, 08:01:44 PM
Let's be honest about the Ithaca and Kean games.  They were spring training games 3,000 miles and 3 time zones away from home against mid-season teams playing on their own fields.

I think that Kean and Ithaca did pretty well.

I understand that. But I can tell you it's not that big a disadvantage. Certainly not enough to excuse going 1-3 or 2-3 against 4 different SCIAC teams. If they were only playing PP and CLU, that would be one thing. But between those two teams, they played 6 different SCIAC teams and not one of them was Cal Lu.

I played on a PP team that was ranked first in the country, in the middle of our season going into a game against Middlebury. It was their first game of the season, and day on an outdoor field. They won the first game of the doubleheader. Ultimately, it's all baseball. Teams may have kinks to work out, but you can't tell me that anyone on the field is treating the game any differently than if it were in the middle or end of the season. And they may not get as much outdoor time, but they're not sitting on their butts either. Would Ithaca and Kean go 3-6 against that schedule right now? Probably not. But given where they are ranked, it would be reasonable to expect the best team in a particular region to go 6-3 or 7-2 against a schedule of teams centered in the middle of another region. And there's no way there's a 3 or 4 game swing from March to May.

Also, Bridgewater was well into their season when they went 1-3.

Look at Chapman's overall record vs Kean. This include games during the regular season and Appleton. Last time I checked Chapman is way ahead in the W column,... All games between these two programs are played like it is the last game of the season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 07, 2013, 03:49:09 PM
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on May 07, 2013, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: historymajor on May 07, 2013, 02:20:58 PM
Teddy... wrong Trinity/ wrong Centenary.  Trinity went 3-4 and Centenary (transitioning from D1) is in West anyway.  New SCAC member from Shreveport, LA

History Major - Not sure if you interpreted his post like he meant it to be read.  Trinity (Tx) is 4-1 against non-West Region opponents.  They went 3-1 vs Rockford (who is 15-11 since their series with Trinity and awful start and actually counts as an in-region opponent for Trinity)  and 1-0 vs Desales.  Centenary was the other team in the SCAC that played non-west region opponents.  They went 0-1 vs North Central (Ill).  So the SCAC conference went 4-2 vs non-west region teams.

Thank you, that is indeed how I meant it to be read. Apologies for not making it clear. And thanks for bringing up the fact that Rockford (and many others included in my post) still counted as in region opponents for the NCAA purposes. PP and CLU played some midwest teams in Arizona that also counted as in-region. But for my purposes- simply comparing  the West to different regions, I included all those games.

Couple quick notes-
TLU was 2-1 vs Wheaton (Illinois) not (Mass), which is a big difference and I should have noted it.

Overall West region teams went 13-6 against teams who were ranked in other regions as of last week.

The only regionally ranked team with a winning record against West region teams is Wartburg who went 2-0 vs Lewis and Clark and 1-0 vs Howard Payne.

Ithaca (NY #1, 1-3), Huntingdon (South #1, 1-3), Kean (MA #1, 2-3), and Bridgewater (South #4, 1-3) all had losing records against the west. Bridgewater's loss to CLU was the only one of those 19 games played against a Regionally ranked team from the west.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 07, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
Quote from: dahlby on May 06, 2013, 08:41:08 PM
There is much talent in the SoCal area. But, with at least 50 D1, D2, NAIA and JC schools vying for the talent, it does get dilluted quickly.
Let's not forget the High School guys that get drafted and sign along witht JUCO guys plus all the guys that leave SoCal to player else where. Trinity-TX being a good example of SoCal guys on their rosters, and Linfield has gotten a few also.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 07, 2013, 05:15:08 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 07, 2013, 03:08:59 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 06, 2013, 09:12:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2013, 08:01:44 PM
Let's be honest about the Ithaca and Kean games.  They were spring training games 3,000 miles and 3 time zones away from home against mid-season teams playing on their own fields.

I think that Kean and Ithaca did pretty well.

I understand that. But I can tell you it's not that big a disadvantage. Certainly not enough to excuse going 1-3 or 2-3 against 4 different SCIAC teams. If they were only playing PP and CLU, that would be one thing. But between those two teams, they played 6 different SCIAC teams and not one of them was Cal Lu.

I played on a PP team that was ranked first in the country, in the middle of our season going into a game against Middlebury. It was their first game of the season, and day on an outdoor field. They won the first game of the doubleheader. Ultimately, it's all baseball. Teams may have kinks to work out, but you can't tell me that anyone on the field is treating the game any differently than if it were in the middle or end of the season. And they may not get as much outdoor time, but they're not sitting on their butts either. Would Ithaca and Kean go 3-6 against that schedule right now? Probably not. But given where they are ranked, it would be reasonable to expect the best team in a particular region to go 6-3 or 7-2 against a schedule of teams centered in the middle of another region. And there's no way there's a 3 or 4 game swing from March to May.

Also, Bridgewater was well into their season when they went 1-3.

Look at Chapman's overall record vs Kean. This include games during the regular season and Appleton. Last time I checked Chapman is way ahead in the W column,... All games between these two programs are played like it is the last game of the season.

We'll never know until a western team goes east for a similar trip. Not looking for that to happen soon.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2013, 05:55:29 PM
I think it was you Forheaven that suggested that Trinity, Concordia, TLU and maybe one other program invite some of the eastern power house teams (maybe a couple of West Coast teams would come) down for a round robin type of tournament over easter break. Great idea that probably won't get any traction, but good idea none-the-less.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 07, 2013, 07:10:21 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2013, 05:55:29 PM
I think it was you Forheaven that suggested that Trinity, Concordia, TLU and maybe one other program invite some of the eastern power house teams (maybe a couple of West Coast teams would come) down for a round robin type of tournament over easter break. Great idea that probably won't get any traction, but good idea none-the-less.

Good idea. Certainly more reasonable than expecting a West Coast team to risk going East. Pretty difficult to figure out a time to do that late in the season, and early in the season means going out during periods of volatile weather. Spring break is the best time for these sorts of inter-region games to be played, and doing them in a central location with low risk for inclimate weather is the way to do it.

I know PP, for example, is currently budgeted for one out-of-state bus trip every two years. Arizona is usually the destination of choice (during Spring break) because it draws teams from around the country, and allows the various teams to break off and check out some Spring Training games when they aren't playing. It is a neutral site for all the teams, so nobody has home field advantage. It's close enough to drive without too much hassle, which keeps the cost down. The San Antonio/Austin area might be a more difficult place to drive to, but anywhere that can draw good in region and non region competition (particularly with next year's rule changes) is something to look at.

The issue, as always, is cost. Spring break trips are great because they bypass academic concerns, but most of the SoCal athletic budgets are built with an awareness of the fact that other teams from around the country are always willing to come out here. The need for travel is low, so travel is the easiest place to trim a budget when you're looking to be fiscally prudent. That's probably why PP only travels every other year, and why just about everyone but Chapman limits their travel to bus trips (unless they bus out to Texas when they go?).

It's great for all of us with no decision-making power to talk about how all our teams should go out and try to play top competition in other parts of the country, but unfortunately ADs who manage up to 20+ teams and the Trustees and administrators they report to don't get the luxury of unlimited hypothetical budgets nor are they likely to understand the intricacies of building a schedule that lends itself to a greater ability for Pool C playoff bids.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 07, 2013, 08:04:18 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2013, 05:55:29 PM
I think it was you Forheaven that suggested that Trinity, Concordia, TLU and maybe one other program invite some of the eastern power house teams (maybe a couple of West Coast teams would come) down for a round robin type of tournament over easter break. Great idea that probably won't get any traction, but good idea none-the-less.

Hey, never say "never" on this one.  Maybe not Spring Break, but could happen earlier in season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 07, 2013, 11:11:05 PM
So whoever comes in at 5 and 6 the first four appear locked and 3 and 4 will be playing each other in the first round. That means it is likely that Trinity will play UT Tyler. That should be very interesting.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 08, 2013, 12:41:23 PM
McMurry and Coach Driggers hosted a tourney in Abilene in March in the mid 2000's to which teams like Montclair State and Marietta would come.

If Coach Driggers can get his playing field up to speed ( and I here that it is coming along nicely) then there are several teams that can make that a good tournament...UTT, Centenary and ETBU (now that they appear to have, once again, recalled how to win ball games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 08, 2013, 03:16:09 PM
Changing directions a little bit- I think we can all agree that there's a very good chance at least one team gets shipped in this year. TLU would not a lottt of help this weekend to find themselves in Pool C contention (only 14 spots available, a few are already taken...) and GFU is by no means a shoe-in (though I do think they get one of the last few spots).

How then do they decide who to ship in? Is it typically the out of region team closest to the regional site? I imagine it would be fairly easy for a few of the teams in the South to get to Austin, but do they give Pool A's priority in staying in their own region? Or potential 1 seeds? Do they try and send someone who will probably be the 5 or 6 seed, or are there purely geographic considerations? I imagine it's also dependent upon which regions have an odd number of bids, and there might be some juggling to make sure every region gets the right amount of teams... Any insight would be appreciated! Also, does balancing the regionals and the associated geographic considerations have any bearing on who the committee selects to round out the field, or do they just pick the best Pool B and C candidates and then try and map everything else out after?

Looking at geographic proximity, Millsaps appears to be the closest team to Austin in the most recent regional rankings (8.5 hour drive). Huntingdon isn't crazy far either. WashU seems to be the closest from the central...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 08, 2013, 03:20:14 PM
Millsaps is probably bussed to Memphis for the South Regional.

My first guess is that the Regionals will be assigned these teams:

New England -- 8
New York -- 8
Mid-Atlantic -- 8
MidEast  -- 7  8 teams
Central -- 6
Midwest -- 6
South -- 6
West -- 6


Correction.  We have 56 bids for the tourney this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 08, 2013, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 08, 2013, 03:16:09 PM
Changing directions a little bit- I think we can all agree that there's a very good chance at least one team gets shipped in this year. TLU would not a lottt of help this weekend to find themselves in Pool C contention (only 14 spots available, a few are already taken...) and GFU is by no means a shoe-in (though I do think they get one of the last few spots).

How then do they decide who to ship in? Is it typically the out of region team closest to the regional site? I imagine it would be fairly easy for a few of the teams in the South to get to Austin, but do they give Pool A's priority in staying in their own region? Or potential 1 seeds? Do they try and send someone who will probably be the 5 or 6 seed, or are there purely geographic considerations? I imagine it's also dependent upon which regions have an odd number of bids, and there might be some juggling to make sure every region gets the right amount of teams... Any insight would be appreciated! Also, does balancing the regionals and the associated geographic considerations have any bearing on who the committee selects to round out the field, or do they just pick the best Pool B and C candidates and then try and map everything else out after?

Looking at geographic proximity, Millsaps appears to be the closest team to Austin in the most recent regional rankings (8.5 hour drive). Huntingdon isn't crazy far either. WashU seems to be the closest from the central...
Posed that question earlier this season.
http://d3baseball.com/columns/around-the-nation/2013/ATN_March13 (http://d3baseball.com/columns/around-the-nation/2013/ATN_March13)

Feel free to read the other ATN's.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 08, 2013, 05:39:02 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 08, 2013, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 08, 2013, 03:16:09 PM
Changing directions a little bit- I think we can all agree that there's a very good chance at least one team gets shipped in this year. TLU would not a lottt of help this weekend to find themselves in Pool C contention (only 14 spots available, a few are already taken...) and GFU is by no means a shoe-in (though I do think they get one of the last few spots).

How then do they decide who to ship in? Is it typically the out of region team closest to the regional site? I imagine it would be fairly easy for a few of the teams in the South to get to Austin, but do they give Pool A's priority in staying in their own region? Or potential 1 seeds? Do they try and send someone who will probably be the 5 or 6 seed, or are there purely geographic considerations? I imagine it's also dependent upon which regions have an odd number of bids, and there might be some juggling to make sure every region gets the right amount of teams... Any insight would be appreciated! Also, does balancing the regionals and the associated geographic considerations have any bearing on who the committee selects to round out the field, or do they just pick the best Pool B and C candidates and then try and map everything else out after?

Looking at geographic proximity, Millsaps appears to be the closest team to Austin in the most recent regional rankings (8.5 hour drive). Huntingdon isn't crazy far either. WashU seems to be the closest from the central...
Posed that question earlier this season.
http://d3baseball.com/columns/around-the-nation/2013/ATN_March13 (http://d3baseball.com/columns/around-the-nation/2013/ATN_March13)

Feel free to read the other ATN's.

That was very insightful, thank you!!

And Ralph, thanks for pointing out that there's a regional in Tennessee. Perhaps Millsaps wouldn't be a good pick to bring to Texas. In which case it may turn out that they ship in a team that would have to fly to their own regional anyway... I guess that's a tough one to speculate.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 08, 2013, 05:44:59 PM
A few years back Linfield got shipped out of the West Region. I don't recall where they were shipped but I believe they were a Pool A team.

They won that regional and went on to Appleton.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 08, 2013, 06:56:22 PM
Any thoughts on shakeups in the regional rankings?
Can't imagine 1-5 changing much... Cal Lu had a great weekend, but no reason for them to jump Linfield. UTT won the ASC, so they may break off from the tie with Trinity but no reason for them to jump Cal Lu who also went undefeated in winning their conference tournament. Trinity and George Fox sat on their tushes.

TLU did drop 2 of 3 though. They continue to show weakness against above average teams.
They were 16-2 in the ASC West- a division in which the #2 team was .500 overall on the year (and against whom TLU split 4 games).
Outside of the ASC West, they were 14-10 in games counting towards their in-region record.
       -They split with Louisiana
       -Dropped 2 to Trinity
       -Lost their only game with the Ozarks
       -Lost a series to UT Dallas.
Going solely by the head to head numbers in a conference where teams in different divisions have very different looking conference schedules, TLU failed to show that they were definitively better than any of the top 3 teams in the ASC West (UTT, LC, UTD).

Pomona-Pitzer also lost two games last weekend, but they won two and finished second in their conference tournament.
If you look at their full in region schedule, they have a winning record against every team except CLU and Linfield- the two best teams in the whole region.
They had 7 total games against those two teams, meaning 6 losses right off the bat, compared to just the two TLU had against Trinity. They had series wins against all 8 other SCIAC teams (3-2 vs both Redlands and Oxy, 3-1 vs ULV)
They were 4-0 against NWC opponents not managed by Scott Brosius
They had two wins (and six losses) against regionally ranked teams- 1-3 vs CLU, 1-0 vs Ithaca, 0-3 vs Linfield

Overall PP has an in-region winning percentage of .667 (28-14) compared to TLU at .714 (30-12). That's a seemingly large difference, but TLU finishes with a .492 SOS compared to PP at .525. The difference is more drastic in raw OWP, with TLU at .484 and PP at .529. I just think comparing the two, TLU is lacking in quality wins (series or otherwise) and has some more troublesome losses. .

So my biased rankings would look like this:
1. Linfield
2. CLU
3. UTT
4. Trinity
5. George Fox
6. PP
6.5 TLU

Also I think PP and George Fox are closer than others might expect. In terms of common opponents- PP was 14-10 to GFU's 9-7. GFU has the advantage in WP and SOS, which is the golden standard on these boards and for the selection committee. But I think those are more important when looking at large groups of teams and when comparing teams with little in common. When you have as much overlap in schedules as these two do, I think common opponents should have a lot more weight. And PP does have the advantage there. Obviously I don't expect PP to be ahead of GFU tomorrow, but just want to throw out another perspective.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 08, 2013, 10:18:03 PM
I think that this week's regional rankings will be the final ranking because all teams have finished their seasons, and there are very few remaining games to impact the SOS in other conference tourneys.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 08, 2013, 10:43:57 PM
Here are the 5 teams that will be in West Regional. Not sure who will be #6. Pomona-Pitzer or Texas-Lutheran or team from another region,

1. Linfield
2. CLU
3. UTT
4. Trinity
5. George Fox
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on May 09, 2013, 02:30:58 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 08, 2013, 05:44:59 PM
A few years back Linfield got shipped out of the West Region. I don't recall where they were shipped but I believe they were a Pool A team.

They won that regional and went on to Appleton.

It was 2008 when Linfield won the NWC by a game over George Fox, but the NCAA decided to ship Linfield to the Midwest Regional. I believe Linfield would have been the #2 seed in the West Regional, but they ended up being a #5 or #6 in the Midwest. I doubt that this would happen again in 2013 considering Linfield should be the #1 seed in the West but who knows (stranger things have happened :o) If anybody is getting shipped anywhere it will probably be an out-of-region team coming to the West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2013, 02:59:22 PM
Back then, we had Chapman and Cal State East Bay participating in the tourney as Pool B bids.

We have actually hurt our chances for Pool C bids with the loss of good Pool B teams as they have moved into conferences (UDallas and Chapman) or left D-3 (CSU-East Bay to D2 and Menlo to NAIA).

I have conceptualized the statistical logjam that we get in Pool C as a peloton in cycling.

We seem to get quite a bit of separation from the leaders in the "lead" pack in the West Region from the rest of the 30-odd teams in Pool C.  I think that the "gap" allows other Pool C schools from the other regions to slip into the "gap" by "0.001 of a second".  We have a lot of teams that wreak havoc with the overall records that knock out "good" teams from Pool C contention.

The West Region teams have quality #1 and #2 pitchers on the squad.  When one gets to the northern regions, the opponent #2 pitcher will inflict the loss on a good squad that is contending for Pool A and C, but the good squad mops up in a given week when their pitching staff gets wins out of #1, #3, #4, #5 and maybe even pitcher #6.  Bingo, the team went 5-1 that week.  Conversely, in the ASC, earlier in the year, HPU's #1 beat the TLU #1, and the Bulldogs get a "bad" loss.  The weather in the West allows us to play starting in early February.  We rarely play more than 4 games in a week.  Five and six games is common up north!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 09, 2013, 02:59:34 PM
Last year Coe was brought in. Given the South Regional is in the Memphis area I would imagine it will be another Mid-West team.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2013, 03:17:49 PM
Let's look at what the committee will see in TLU.

Good wins:
None to speak of.

It is what it is:
CTX  2-2
Losing to a CCIW mid-level Wheaton IL in game #2 1-0
Winning the MIssissippi College series 2 games to one.
Going 1-2 in the ASC finals
Losing to Trinity both times.

Bad losses:
UOzarks         losing 12-4
Hosting UTD and going  1-2 in the series
HPU loss in game #1 by a score of 2-1

TLU is 33-12, 30-12 in-region.  IMHO, there is not doubt that going 36-9 on the season (33-9 in region)  gets them in.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 09, 2013, 04:33:23 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2013, 03:17:49 PM
Let's look at what the committee will see in TLU.

Good wins:
None to speak of.

It is what it is:
CTX  2-2
Losing to a CCIW mid-level Wheaton IL in game #2 1-0
Winning the MIssissippi College series 2 games to one.
Going 1-2 in the ASC finals
Losing to Trinity both times.

Bad losses:
UOzarks         losing 12-4
Hosting UTD and going  1-2 in the series
HPU loss in game #1 by a score of 2-1

TLU is 33-12, 30-12 in-region.  IMHO, there is not doubt that going 36-9 on the season (33-9 in region)  gets them in.

Looks like TLU stays home again. Wins over 30 but too many bad losses and not enough good wins vs SOS strong teams. Amazing how teams with 33 wins stays home but teams in the low to mid 20 wins gets in.

I know  all about SOS, In region....etc...etc....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 09, 2013, 05:11:44 PM
WOW. Pomona-Pitzer has jumped up to 5 in the regional rankings, TLU slides down to 6, and George Fox drops out entirely!
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/regional_rankings (http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/regional_rankings)

Was not expecting the Hens to jump that high, nor would I have expected TLU to jump George Fox after going 1-2 and finishing 3rd in conference. George Fox's biggest weakness may be the fact that have a lot fewer in-region games than everyone else.

There are no games left to play in the west, so no changes can be expected in the order. However, the selection committee is independent of the regional committee and may go a different route in seeding, and may decide not to hand out a Pool C to either PP, TLU, or GFU. I think it would be a shame to have to ship a team into such a strong region (in terms of depth at least), but we will find out Sunday.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on May 09, 2013, 05:30:36 PM
Division 3 tourney picks are almost spun a wheel every year it seems. They dont have the resources or manpower the two other divisions above them have to determine who qualifies.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 09, 2013, 05:33:46 PM
QuoteI think it would be a shame to have to ship a team into such a strong region (in terms of depth at least), but we will find out Sunday.

It would be more than a shame. As I stated in my post last week, the West region should be able to keep 6 representative teams and I among others would be angry if we have less than 6 representing the region. If they want to ship one out and a different team in that is ok as long as we net 6.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 09, 2013, 05:38:43 PM
Well, I guess that since Pomona-Pitzer, TLU and G. Fox have combined for a stunning 2-15 record against ranked/region opponents, maybe 2 teams will be shipped out West.  Weren't two teams shipped-in to Linfield last year?  Coe and someone else I can't remember.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 09, 2013, 05:50:47 PM
Take a look at the lower 2 teams in each of the other regions. The most likely regions to ship someone in from is from the south or midwest due to distance. P-P and TLU have better in region winning percentages and overall winning percentages than the bottom two in each of those divisions. So if they ship in another team it would not likely be superior to what we already have unless they ship in a top 2 or 3  level team from another region (not likely). Therefore any of those 5 or 6 level  teams would likely be inferior to what we have in the 5 and 6 spot already.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 09, 2013, 06:02:43 PM
Yes, I hope not, it would be a shame not to field 6 West teams in Austin.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 09, 2013, 06:27:49 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 09, 2013, 05:38:43 PM
Well, I guess that since Pomona-Pitzer, TLU and G. Fox have combined for a stunning 2-15 record against ranked/region opponents, maybe 2 teams will be shipped out West.  Weren't two teams shipped-in to Linfield last year?  Coe and someone else I can't remember.
Coe and Saint John's. Coe finished third at that regional as the No. 5 seed. No. 6 Saint John's went 0-2.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 09, 2013, 06:56:45 PM
I saw both of them and Coe was decent, St. John's was not. Coe was probably similar to a TLU this year from an eyeball point of view.... not that this matters.

P-P did as much as they could for themselves coming through the losers bracket to get second place in the SCIAC tourney. Getting swept by Linfield did not help GF's cause. LTU did not do enough to separate themselves.

Likely 2 teams shipped in but maybe P-P gets in.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2013, 09:50:16 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 09, 2013, 05:50:47 PM
Take a look at the lower 2 teams in each of the other regions. The most likely regions to ship someone in from is from the south or midwest due to distance. P-P and TLU have better in region winning percentages and overall winning percentages than the bottom two in each of those divisions. So if they ship in another team it would not likely be superior to what we already have unless they ship in a top 2 or 3  level team from another region (not likely). Therefore any of those 5 or 6 level  teams would likely be inferior to what we have in the 5 and 6 spot already.

TexasBB

Let's look at the stats for Wash U St L, #6 in the Central.

Team             Reg. record    Reg. win % OWP (rank)    OOWP    NCAA SOS
9 Washington U.    22-11    .667    .5903 (6)       .5328    0.571

Look at the OWP winning percentage, .590. 

Their 22-11 is incredible!  That is against 6th toughest OWP in the country!

Look at their games versus regionally ranked opponents.  (Designated by the bold.)


Overall: 23-15 - Conference: 0-0
2/22    at Rhodes    L, 16-7    BX RC RC
2/23    at Webster •    W, 3-2    BX RC
2/23    at Rhodes    L, 10-1    BX RC
3/3    at North Central (Ill.) •    W, 3-1    BX RC
3/4    vs. North Park •    W, 3-0    BX
3/4    vs. Buena Vista •    W, 7-4    BX RC
3/7    vs. Fontbonne •    L, 4-3    BX RC
3/10    vs. Brandeis •    W, 5-4    BX RC
3/11    at Emory •    W, 6-2    BX RC
3/12    vs. Case Western Reserve •    L, 13-3    BX RC RC
3/13    at Brandeis •    W, 13-5    BX RC
3/14    vs. Emory •    W, 6-0    BX
3/14    at Rochester •    W, 11-4    BX RC
3/15    at Case Western Reserve •    L, 6-2    BX RC RC
3/17    vs. Rochester •    L, 8-4    BX RC
3/22    vs. Illinois Wesleyan •    W, 5-4    BX RC
3/23    vs. St. Norbert •    W, 1-0    BX
3/23    vs. Illinois Wesleyan •    W, 6-3    BX RC
3/29    vs. Grinnell •    L, 3-2    BX
3/29    vs. Grinnell •    W, 4-2    BX RC
3/30    vs. Grinnell •    L, 16-3    BX
3/30    vs. St. Norbert •    W, 3-2    BX RC
4/4    at DePauw    W, 9-7    BX
4/4    at DePauw    L, 2-1    BX
4/6    vs. Webster •    L, 19-7    BX
4/6    vs. Webster •    W, 8-6    BX RC
4/11    vs. Fontbonne •    W, 13-1    BX RC
4/16    at Saint Louis    L, 5-4    BX RC
4/17    vs. Blackburn •    W, 8-4    BX RC
4/20    vs. Greenville •    W, 13-2    BX
4/20    vs. Greenville •    W, 9-0    BX RC
4/24    vs. Webster •    L, 10-7    BX RC
4/27    at Chicago •    L, 4-1    BX
4/27    at Chicago •    W, 3-0    BX RC
4/28    at Chicago •    W, 10-5    BX
4/28    at Chicago •    L, 2-1    BX RC
4/30    vs. Benedictine •    L, 5-4    BX RC RC
5/1    at Rose-Hulman •    W, 14-1    BX RC
5/11    vs. Chicago •    1:00 PM    LS
5/11    vs. Chicago •    4:30 PM    LS

Wash U is 4-5 against regionally ranked teams.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 09, 2013, 10:03:41 PM
Ok I see theat Ralph, but if they move Washington U out of the Central then someone else has to move in since the Central will have 6 teams. Thus a lower level team moves in instead of just leaving them in the Central and leaving 6 western region teams to fill the west. So a team like Denison which is a 9th seed might be moved to the Central? In essence a 9th seed would be taking the place of 6th seed from the West if they do that type of shift.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 09, 2013, 10:29:44 PM
My early opinion is that the NCAA may need Wash U, if selected, in Millington. We'll see how the remaining Pool A dominoes fall. Whatever the case, my spreadsheet suggests the NCAA can/will need to get creative.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 10, 2013, 08:46:18 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2013, 03:17:49 PM
Let's look at what the committee will see in TLU.

Good wins:
None to speak of.

It is what it is:
CTX  2-2
Losing to a CCIW mid-level Wheaton IL in game #2 1-0
Winning the MIssissippi College series 2 games to one.
Going 1-2 in the ASC finals
Losing to Trinity both times.

Bad losses:
UOzarks         losing 12-4
Hosting UTD and going  1-2 in the series
HPU loss in game #1 by a score of 2-1

TLU is 33-12, 30-12 in-region.  IMHO, there is not doubt that going 36-9 on the season (33-9 in region)  gets them in.

I can't see TLU getting a bid. One can say it is related to the incestuous scheduling in the West, but they reality is that TLU did not win the games that a team deserving of a bid should have won.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 10, 2013, 08:50:16 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 09, 2013, 05:33:46 PM
QuoteI think it would be a shame to have to ship a team into such a strong region (in terms of depth at least), but we will find out Sunday.

It would be more than a shame. As I stated in my post last week, the West region should be able to keep 6 representative teams and I among others would be angry if we have less than 6 representing the region. If they want to ship one out and a different team in that is ok as long as we net 6.

The problem is that Pool C bids are NOT handed out regionally, but nationally. Anyone not grabbing a Pool A bid has to be compared to the rest of the teams in the NATION (not the region), which often becomes a beauty contest based on who they beat and lost to. In the committee's eyes, they choose the best Pool C teams regardless of region. Once that is done, then they sort out who goes where.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 10, 2013, 08:57:31 AM
By early Sunday much of this will be shaken out. As always happens, some top level locks for bids will lose their conference's Pool A bid and take a Pool C instead. It happens every year. If you are a bubble team, cheer for the teams ahead of you to win the Pool A bids. If you have two schools from the same conference ahead of you in the regional rankings, you might be in trouble as only one win get a Pool A... and you are forced to sit and wait for those ahead of you to be selected before you even get a look.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 10, 2013, 01:40:08 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2013, 05:55:29 PM
I think it was you Forheaven that suggested that Trinity, Concordia, TLU and maybe one other program invite some of the eastern power house teams (maybe a couple of West Coast teams would come) down for a round robin type of tournament over easter break. Great idea that probably won't get any traction, but good idea none-the-less.

Not so sure that was what I said...but it's one option. Traveling to play them is another. Meeting St. Thomas and Whitewater in St. Louis or something...once the Metrodome goes down they're going to be looking for places to play early in the year.

There are as many options as there are creative people to think of them. And there are as many excuses for not using those options too.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 10, 2013, 01:44:08 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 09, 2013, 10:03:41 PM
Ok I see theat Ralph, but if they move Washington U out of the Central then someone else has to move in since the Central will have 6 teams. Thus a lower level team moves in instead of just leaving them in the Central and leaving 6 western region teams to fill the west. So a team like Denison which is a 9th seed might be moved to the Central? In essence a 9th seed would be taking the place of 6th seed from the West if they do that type of shift.

No one can really be moved from east to west this year inside of mileage restrictions. You can't even get a team from PA to Terre Haute with less than 500 miles.

I think trying to predict the regions this year will prove to be a fool's errand. Anything could happen. I would like to see them ship more middle seed teams than just taking the two lowest in a region and moving them, thereby diluting whatever region they go to.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 10, 2013, 03:30:37 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 10, 2013, 01:44:08 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 09, 2013, 10:03:41 PM
Ok I see theat Ralph, but if they move Washington U out of the Central then someone else has to move in since the Central will have 6 teams. Thus a lower level team moves in instead of just leaving them in the Central and leaving 6 western region teams to fill the west. So a team like Denison which is a 9th seed might be moved to the Central? In essence a 9th seed would be taking the place of 6th seed from the West if they do that type of shift.

No one can really be moved from east to west this year inside of mileage restrictions. You can't even get a team from PA to Terre Haute with less than 500 miles.
...
There are PA teams that can drive to RHIT, but it will be interesting to see what the committee decides.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 10, 2013, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 10, 2013, 03:30:37 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 10, 2013, 01:44:08 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 09, 2013, 10:03:41 PM
Ok I see theat Ralph, but if they move Washington U out of the Central then someone else has to move in since the Central will have 6 teams. Thus a lower level team moves in instead of just leaving them in the Central and leaving 6 western region teams to fill the west. So a team like Denison which is a 9th seed might be moved to the Central? In essence a 9th seed would be taking the place of 6th seed from the West if they do that type of shift.

No one can really be moved from east to west this year inside of mileage restrictions. You can't even get a team from PA to Terre Haute with less than 500 miles.
...
There are PA teams that can drive to RHIT, but it will be interesting to see what the committee decides.

I guess I meant from outside the region. Yes, La Roche and W&J are inside 500. Larger point being that basically anyone moving from NE/NY/MA regions (except within those 3, from NE to NY for instance) will be flying. So they could literally do just about anything they want as far as who goes where.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 10, 2013, 06:26:19 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 10, 2013, 08:50:16 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 09, 2013, 05:33:46 PM
QuoteI think it would be a shame to have to ship a team into such a strong region (in terms of depth at least), but we will find out Sunday.

It would be more than a shame. As I stated in my post last week, the West region should be able to keep 6 representative teams and I among others would be angry if we have less than 6 representing the region. If they want to ship one out and a different team in that is ok as long as we net 6.

The problem is that Pool C bids are NOT handed out regionally, but nationally. Anyone not grabbing a Pool A bid has to be compared to the rest of the teams in the NATION (not the region), which often becomes a beauty contest based on who they beat and lost to. In the committee's eyes, they choose the best Pool C teams regardless of region. Once that is done, then they sort out who goes where.

How they can use in-region criteria to determine bids nationally is beyond me. What does one team's success in the West have anything to do with another team's success in the Central? Now that's not to say Wash U and others aren't deserving. They may well be. But there's gotta be a better way to compare teams. Some metric to compare regions at least.

Now I understand that next year the committee will be using overall D3 record and not in-region? That will help, but will still lead to difficulties due to isolation, and (I'm guessing) a new reluctance for inter-region scheduling at the beginning of the season (which is the easiest time for teams to do non-conference games).

It just seems to me like it would be a lot easier to allocate bids strictly by region, with a pre-set number of bids per region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2013, 06:36:48 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 10, 2013, 06:26:19 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 10, 2013, 08:50:16 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 09, 2013, 05:33:46 PM
QuoteI think it would be a shame to have to ship a team into such a strong region (in terms of depth at least), but we will find out Sunday.

It would be more than a shame. As I stated in my post last week, the West region should be able to keep 6 representative teams and I among others would be angry if we have less than 6 representing the region. If they want to ship one out and a different team in that is ok as long as we net 6.

The problem is that Pool C bids are NOT handed out regionally, but nationally. Anyone not grabbing a Pool A bid has to be compared to the rest of the teams in the NATION (not the region), which often becomes a beauty contest based on who they beat and lost to. In the committee's eyes, they choose the best Pool C teams regardless of region. Once that is done, then they sort out who goes where.

How they can use in-region criteria to determine bids nationally is beyond me.

(You sound like Mr Ypsi on the Hoops and Football Boards.    ;) ) 

What does one team's success in the West have anything to do with another team's success in the Central? Now that's not to say Wash U and others aren't deserving. They may well be. But there's gotta be a better way to compare teams. Some metric to compare regions at least.

There is so little crossover play that you cannot find an easy metric.  I once imagined a Deviation from the Mean to compare the really good SOS scores that you see in New England and the Mid-Atlantic, with the near .500 scores that we see in the West Region.  If the committee did not acknowledge how really lousy our SOS numbers are in the West and ASC/SCAC, comparable to "nationally", then we would be skunked every year.

Now I understand that next year the committee will be using overall D3 record and not in-region? That will help, but will still lead to difficulties due to isolation, and (I'm guessing) a new reluctance for inter-region scheduling at the beginning of the season (which is the easiest time for teams to do non-conference games).

It just seems to me like it would be a lot easier to allocate bids strictly by region, with a pre-set number of bids per region.  

And then you get the problem of really strong regions not getting enough at-large bids when a region is really strong.  IMHO, the West was not really strong this year.  The ASC, as a whole, has been down for several years now.  I think that we will get two Pool C bids, kinda what we deserve.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 11, 2013, 10:10:41 AM
Formulas are too complicated IMO. What ever metric you use has flaws. Needs to be simplified. I am glad they are going away from in region stuff.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 10:26:19 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2013, 06:36:48 PM

There is so little crossover play that you cannot find an easy metric.  I once imagined a Deviation from the Mean to compare the really good SOS scores that you see in New England and the Mid-Atlantic, with the near .500 scores that we see in the West Region.  If the committee did not acknowledge how really lousy our SOS numbers are in the West and ASC/SCAC, comparable to "nationally", then we would be skunked every year.

Well if the SOS is lower (because you're not able/willing/whatever) to travel to play other power programs, isn't the obvious counterweight to win at a higher rate? If you play a weaker schedule, it seems completely reasonable to me to expect a higher winning percentage. Teams have gotten in with .800ish percentages even with wretched SOS (like 300th ish). But if you are down more like .700 and going against .650-.700 teams with much better schedules, then it just makes sense that you're usually going on lose out there.

It's kind of like a sliding scale...if you're lower in one area, you have to make up for it in another.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 10:51:53 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 10:26:19 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2013, 06:36:48 PM

There is so little crossover play that you cannot find an easy metric.  I once imagined a Deviation from the Mean to compare the really good SOS scores that you see in New England and the Mid-Atlantic, with the near .500 scores that we see in the West Region.  If the committee did not acknowledge how really lousy our SOS numbers are in the West and ASC/SCAC, comparable to "nationally", then we would be skunked every year.

Well if the SOS is lower (because you're not able/willing/whatever) to travel to play other power programs, isn't the obvious counterweight to win at a higher rate? If you play a weaker schedule, it seems completely reasonable to me to expect a higher winning percentage. Teams have gotten in with .800ish percentages even with wretched SOS (like 300th ish). But if you are down more like .700 and going against .650-.700 teams with much better schedules, then it just makes sense that you're usually going on lose out there.

It's kind of like a sliding scale...if you're lower in one area, you have to make up for it in another.
This assumes that strength of schedule measures, well, strength of schedule. If you took the 8 best teams and put them in a conference together on the moon with no travel budget, they all come back with SOS of .500, which puts them at 240th in the nation. By definition though, they have the toughest schedules. 
Is the west region on the moon? No.  Is the SCIAC (or NWC or anybody else) comprised of the best teams in the country? No. Is SOS really comparable across regions when you have these sparsitiy issues. I don't think so.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 11:18:11 AM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 10:51:53 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 10:26:19 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2013, 06:36:48 PM

There is so little crossover play that you cannot find an easy metric.  I once imagined a Deviation from the Mean to compare the really good SOS scores that you see in New England and the Mid-Atlantic, with the near .500 scores that we see in the West Region.  If the committee did not acknowledge how really lousy our SOS numbers are in the West and ASC/SCAC, comparable to "nationally", then we would be skunked every year.

Well if the SOS is lower (because you're not able/willing/whatever) to travel to play other power programs, isn't the obvious counterweight to win at a higher rate? If you play a weaker schedule, it seems completely reasonable to me to expect a higher winning percentage. Teams have gotten in with .800ish percentages even with wretched SOS (like 300th ish). But if you are down more like .700 and going against .650-.700 teams with much better schedules, then it just makes sense that you're usually going on lose out there.

It's kind of like a sliding scale...if you're lower in one area, you have to make up for it in another.
This assumes that strength of schedule measures, well, strength of schedule. If you took the 8 best teams and put them in a conference together on the moon with no travel budget, they all come back with SOS of .500, which puts them at 240th in the nation. By definition though, they have the toughest schedules. 
Is the west region on the moon? No.  Is the SCIAC (or NWC or anybody else) comprised of the best teams in the country? No. Is SOS really comparable across regions when you have these sparsitiy issues. I don't think so.

Nothing you said is untrue as far as the numbers. But given as you acknowledge that the hypothetical is not reality, and there are real difference between teams within the league, then I'm back to expecting the better teams to have better records. Your example also seems to dull the complaints re: Caltech, as shouldn't their SOS be artificially increased? If they played back east, they might well hurt SOSes more than they do out west.

Pitzer went 20-8 in the league, 16-8 against not Caltech.
Fox went 17-7.
If either of them won a couple more games, they might look better. Probably if either of them wins 1 out of 3 against Linfield, they're in.

By comparison, Western New England went 15-1 in their league which has 3 teams with 29+ wins. Benedictine went 17-5 in a league with Aurora and Concordia.

DeSales has 32 wins, 17-4 in their league and probably won't sniff a Pool C bid. SOS doesn't discriminate...if you didn't play a great schedule, you need to win more games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 11:18:11 AM
Nothing you said is untrue as far as the numbers. But given as you acknowledge that the hypothetical is not reality, and there are real difference between teams within the league, then I'm back to expecting the better teams to have better records. Your example also seems to dull the complaints re: Caltech, as shouldn't their SOS be artificially increased?
I offered the boundary case (what you call a hypothetical, but any example requires knowing how good teams actually are which is unknowable and thus would be a hypothetical as well) to make a point and simplify the calculations. The validity of the observation is not nullified by moving slightly in from the boundary. Diminished to some extent? Sure.  But the point remains, SOS is simply not comparable between the west region and others.
Cal tech has a real effect on SOS, the calculations aren't difficult to see that. It's not fair to talk about just removing cal tech from your schedule and recalculate your SOS, unless you recalculate OWP for your other SCIAC opponents as well. But it is still detrimental to your SOS to have to schedule them 3 or 4 times.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2013, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 11:18:11 AM
Nothing you said is untrue as far as the numbers. But given as you acknowledge that the hypothetical is not reality, and there are real difference between teams within the league, then I'm back to expecting the better teams to have better records. Your example also seems to dull the complaints re: Caltech, as shouldn't their SOS be artificially increased?
I offered the boundary case (what you call a hypothetical, but any example requires knowing how good teams actually are which is unknowable and thus would be a hypothetical as well) to make a point and simplify the calculations. The validity of the observation is not nullified by moving slightly in from the boundary. Diminished to some extent? Sure.  But the point remains, SOS is simply not comparable between the west region and others.
Cal tech has a real effect on SOS, the calculations aren't difficult to see that. It's not fair to talk about just removing cal tech from your schedule and recalculate your SOS, unless you recalculate OWP for your other SCIAC opponents as well. But it is still detrimental to your SOS to have to schedule them 3 or 4 times.
The isolation in the West is unique.

In 2014, Texas Lutheran will have19 potential D-3 opponents in 600 mile radius.  IF, and it is a big IF, TLU can convince Hendrix (usually very average and 599 miles away) and Millsaps (602 miiles away) to play them, you can get the OOWP on the SAA to help.

In the other parts of the country we are talking about 300 mile radii. In New England, we are talking about 150 mile radii for upwards of 50 or 60 opponents.



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 06:02:29 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 11:18:11 AM
Nothing you said is untrue as far as the numbers. But given as you acknowledge that the hypothetical is not reality, and there are real difference between teams within the league, then I'm back to expecting the better teams to have better records. Your example also seems to dull the complaints re: Caltech, as shouldn't their SOS be artificially increased?
I offered the boundary case (what you call a hypothetical, but any example requires knowing how good teams actually are which is unknowable and thus would be a hypothetical as well) to make a point and simplify the calculations. The validity of the observation is not nullified by moving slightly in from the boundary. Diminished to some extent? Sure.  But the point remains, SOS is simply not comparable between the west region and others.
Cal tech has a real effect on SOS, the calculations aren't difficult to see that. It's not fair to talk about just removing cal tech from your schedule and recalculate your SOS, unless you recalculate OWP for your other SCIAC opponents as well. But it is still detrimental to your SOS to have to schedule them 3 or 4 times.

But you're trying to have it both ways...saying that playing the same opponents brings the SOS down...but what it actually does is moderate the SOS, so teams like Caltech would actually not hurt you as much as they would otherwise. Same with CMS. I would submit that Caltech and CMS would hurt you more if there were more cross-conference play.

We do know how good teams actually are because we have these things called tournaments in the postseason. If West teams were basically climbing over each other and then dominating in the championship, then what you all are saying would make some sense.

But that's not happening. A Texas team has never won a game in Appleton, the only California team to win games in Appleton (maybe even to make it to Appleton) Y2K is Chapman, and Linfield is usually the class up north, GF's one-off championship under their previous coach notwithstanding.

Like I said, it's not like GF and Pitzer were just victimized by their schedule. They both lost quite a few games. So you're basically asking for them to be excused both for their schedule and for their losses. Can't have it both ways. If one of them like 35-8 (or 33-7 with no conf tournament) with 3 losses to Linfield, I could understand a little more and might be a little more sympathetic. When you go 28-14 or 26-12, you're relying on fortune. Why didn't GF play the other two games they could play?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 06:11:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2013, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 11:18:11 AM
Nothing you said is untrue as far as the numbers. But given as you acknowledge that the hypothetical is not reality, and there are real difference between teams within the league, then I'm back to expecting the better teams to have better records. Your example also seems to dull the complaints re: Caltech, as shouldn't their SOS be artificially increased?
I offered the boundary case (what you call a hypothetical, but any example requires knowing how good teams actually are which is unknowable and thus would be a hypothetical as well) to make a point and simplify the calculations. The validity of the observation is not nullified by moving slightly in from the boundary. Diminished to some extent? Sure.  But the point remains, SOS is simply not comparable between the west region and others.
Cal tech has a real effect on SOS, the calculations aren't difficult to see that. It's not fair to talk about just removing cal tech from your schedule and recalculate your SOS, unless you recalculate OWP for your other SCIAC opponents as well. But it is still detrimental to your SOS to have to schedule them 3 or 4 times.
The isolation in the West is unique.

In 2014, Texas Lutheran will have19 potential D-3 opponents in 600 mile radius.  IF, and it is a big IF, TLU can convince Hendrix (usually very average and 599 miles away) and Millsaps (602 miiles away) to play them, you can get the OOWP on the SAA to help.

In the other parts of the country we are talking about 300 mile radii. In New England, we are talking about 150 mile radii for upwards of 50 or 60 opponents.

So what's your solution? Just cut the Western teams a break because they don't want to get on a bus?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 11, 2013, 06:23:36 PM
Marrietta will be one of the pool C teams as they were just elimnated in the OAC conference tournament, loosing to Otterbein 10-8. They lost twice to Otterbein the #4 team in the tourney. Mt. Union which came up through the winners bracket will play Otterbein for the title. Otterbein has to beat them twice.

TexasBB
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2013, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 06:11:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2013, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 11:18:11 AM
Nothing you said is untrue as far as the numbers. But given as you acknowledge that the hypothetical is not reality, and there are real difference between teams within the league, then I'm back to expecting the better teams to have better records. Your example also seems to dull the complaints re: Caltech, as shouldn't their SOS be artificially increased?
I offered the boundary case (what you call a hypothetical, but any example requires knowing how good teams actually are which is unknowable and thus would be a hypothetical as well) to make a point and simplify the calculations. The validity of the observation is not nullified by moving slightly in from the boundary. Diminished to some extent? Sure.  But the point remains, SOS is simply not comparable between the west region and others.
Cal tech has a real effect on SOS, the calculations aren't difficult to see that. It's not fair to talk about just removing cal tech from your schedule and recalculate your SOS, unless you recalculate OWP for your other SCIAC opponents as well. But it is still detrimental to your SOS to have to schedule them 3 or 4 times.
The isolation in the West is unique.

In 2014, Texas Lutheran will have19 potential D-3 opponents in 600 mile radius.  IF, and it is a big IF, TLU can convince Hendrix (usually very average and 599 miles away) and Millsaps (602 miiles away) to play them, you can get the OOWP on the SAA to help.

In the other parts of the country we are talking about 300 mile radii. In New England, we are talking about 150 mile radii for upwards of 50 or 60 opponents.

So what's your solution? Just cut the Western teams a break because they don't want to get on a bus?
I want the members of the National committee to know D3 so well, that they can assess what the raw number of the SOS of a  New England  teams means versus a team from the West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 06:36:45 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 06:02:29 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 11:18:11 AM
Nothing you said is untrue as far as the numbers. But given as you acknowledge that the hypothetical is not reality, and there are real difference between teams within the league, then I'm back to expecting the better teams to have better records. Your example also seems to dull the complaints re: Caltech, as shouldn't their SOS be artificially increased?
I offered the boundary case (what you call a hypothetical, but any example requires knowing how good teams actually are which is unknowable and thus would be a hypothetical as well) to make a point and simplify the calculations. The validity of the observation is not nullified by moving slightly in from the boundary. Diminished to some extent? Sure.  But the point remains, SOS is simply not comparable between the west region and others.
Cal tech has a real effect on SOS, the calculations aren't difficult to see that. It's not fair to talk about just removing cal tech from your schedule and recalculate your SOS, unless you recalculate OWP for your other SCIAC opponents as well. But it is still detrimental to your SOS to have to schedule them 3 or 4 times.

But you're trying to have it both ways...saying that playing the same opponents brings the SOS down...but what it actually does is moderate the SOS, so teams like Caltech would actually not hurt you as much as they would otherwise. Same with CMS. I would submit that Caltech and CMS would hurt you more if there were more cross-conference play.

We do know how good teams actually are because we have these things called tournaments in the postseason. If West teams were basically climbing over each other and then dominating in the championship, then what you all are saying would make some sense.

But that's not happening. A Texas team has never won a game in Appleton, the only California team to win games in Appleton (maybe even to make it to Appleton) Y2K is Chapman, and Linfield is usually the class up north, GF's one-off championship under their previous coach notwithstanding.

Like I said, it's not like GF and Pitzer were just victimized by their schedule. They both lost quite a few games. So you're basically asking for them to be excused both for their schedule and for their losses. Can't have it both ways. If one of them like 35-8 (or 33-7 with no conf tournament) with 3 losses to Linfield, I could understand a little more and might be a little more sympathetic. When you go 28-14 or 26-12, you're relying on fortune. Why didn't GF play the other two games they could play?

Fact: playing the same opponents shrinks your SOS towards 1/2. The greater the proportion of your schedule is comprised of conference play, the less possible variability in your SOS. If you only play a balanced conference schedule, your SOS is .5. This is the problem in the west and why SOS can't be used so freely. West region teams have "moderated" SOS, more so than other regions. For pool C candidates, moderate=lower.
The reason that cal tech still hurts you is the use of unweighted averages and unbalanced schedules. You can do the calculation to see that scheduling cal tech still brings down your SOS.

I'm already on record for being anti-conference tourney for deciding pool A bids. Fun? Yes. But a terrible use of the available information for determining the best team. But that's irrelevant here.  Even if you really believe the best team always wins their conference tournament, this only gives you an ordering within a conference. The topic at hand involves choosing pool C bids, which involves comparing teams from different regions. And I maintain that using SOS without observing these facts (primarily that you can play a tougher schedule AND have a lower SOS than another team) is a bad idea. The extreme example I proposed above had the teams with by far the toughest schedules having an SOS ranking them as having the 240th toughest schedule. 1 vs 240.

I'm not asking for them to be excused for their schedule, I'm saying that SOS doesn't measure what you think it measures. Therefore, I'm asking that you excuse them for their SOS, because they play in the west.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 06:48:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2013, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 06:11:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2013, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 11:18:11 AM
Nothing you said is untrue as far as the numbers. But given as you acknowledge that the hypothetical is not reality, and there are real difference between teams within the league, then I'm back to expecting the better teams to have better records. Your example also seems to dull the complaints re: Caltech, as shouldn't their SOS be artificially increased?
I offered the boundary case (what you call a hypothetical, but any example requires knowing how good teams actually are which is unknowable and thus would be a hypothetical as well) to make a point and simplify the calculations. The validity of the observation is not nullified by moving slightly in from the boundary. Diminished to some extent? Sure.  But the point remains, SOS is simply not comparable between the west region and others.
Cal tech has a real effect on SOS, the calculations aren't difficult to see that. It's not fair to talk about just removing cal tech from your schedule and recalculate your SOS, unless you recalculate OWP for your other SCIAC opponents as well. But it is still detrimental to your SOS to have to schedule them 3 or 4 times.
The isolation in the West is unique.

In 2014, Texas Lutheran will have19 potential D-3 opponents in 600 mile radius.  IF, and it is a big IF, TLU can convince Hendrix (usually very average and 599 miles away) and Millsaps (602 miiles away) to play them, you can get the OOWP on the SAA to help.

In the other parts of the country we are talking about 300 mile radii. In New England, we are talking about 150 mile radii for upwards of 50 or 60 opponents.

So what's your solution? Just cut the Western teams a break because they don't want to get on a bus?
I want the members of the National committee to know D3 so well, that they can assess what the raw number of the SOS of a  New England  teams means versus a team from the West.

What makes you think they don't?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 07:02:44 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 06:48:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2013, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 06:11:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2013, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 11:18:11 AM
Nothing you said is untrue as far as the numbers. But given as you acknowledge that the hypothetical is not reality, and there are real difference between teams within the league, then I'm back to expecting the better teams to have better records. Your example also seems to dull the complaints re: Caltech, as shouldn't their SOS be artificially increased?
I offered the boundary case (what you call a hypothetical, but any example requires knowing how good teams actually are which is unknowable and thus would be a hypothetical as well) to make a point and simplify the calculations. The validity of the observation is not nullified by moving slightly in from the boundary. Diminished to some extent? Sure.  But the point remains, SOS is simply not comparable between the west region and others.
Cal tech has a real effect on SOS, the calculations aren't difficult to see that. It's not fair to talk about just removing cal tech from your schedule and recalculate your SOS, unless you recalculate OWP for your other SCIAC opponents as well. But it is still detrimental to your SOS to have to schedule them 3 or 4 times.
The isolation in the West is unique.

In 2014, Texas Lutheran will have19 potential D-3 opponents in 600 mile radius.  IF, and it is a big IF, TLU can convince Hendrix (usually very average and 599 miles away) and Millsaps (602 miiles away) to play them, you can get the OOWP on the SAA to help.

In the other parts of the country we are talking about 300 mile radii. In New England, we are talking about 150 mile radii for upwards of 50 or 60 opponents.

So what's your solution? Just cut the Western teams a break because they don't want to get on a bus?
I want the members of the National committee to know D3 so well, that they can assess what the raw number of the SOS of a  New England  teams means versus a team from the West.

What makes you think they don't?
A 25-18 Bowdoin team getting a pool C last year?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 07:11:24 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 06:36:45 PM

Fact: playing the same opponents shrinks your SOS towards 1/2.

Not a fact. In the cases of Caltech and CMS, it probably results in those opponents hurting you less than they would otherwise. "Shrink" is an improper term as it assumes that otherwise your SOS would have been over .500.

The greater the proportion of your schedule is comprised of conference play, the less possible variability in your SOS. If you only play a balanced conference schedule, your SOS is .5. This is the problem in the west and why SOS can't be used so freely.

So then don't play as many conference games, or don't play a balanced conference schedule. Wow, I'm a genius.

West region teams have "moderated" SOS, more so than other regions. For pool C candidates, moderate=lower.
The reason that cal tech still hurts you is the use of unweighted averages and unbalanced schedules. You can do the calculation to see that scheduling cal tech still brings down your SOS.

You mean scheduling a bad team hurts your SOS? How unfair!
(snip)

I'm not asking for them to be excused for their schedule, I'm saying that SOS doesn't measure what you think it measures. Therefore, I'm asking that you excuse them for their SOS, because they play in the west.

The last two years, the team with the lowest SOS to get a Pool C bid was from the West. Given this fact, I'm not sure what the complaint is. It seems as if the committee is giving the West special treatment (for whatever reason, this one or another one).

Fine, we'll look at other primary criteria. And Pomona-Pitzer and Texas Lutheran still don't measure up. George Fox was judged by your own region to not be as good as either of them, so they're really not even worth talking about.

Bottom line is Chapman has earned respect. Linfield has earned respect. George Fox won a title almost a decade ago but doesn't seem to have followed up on it that well. No one from Texas has ever done anything at the national level and the successes of the SCIAC teams pre-Chapman are well in the past. I'm not seeing a problem here with regard to nationally-contending Western teams getting shut out.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 07:12:10 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 07:02:44 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 06:48:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2013, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 06:11:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2013, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 11:18:11 AM
Nothing you said is untrue as far as the numbers. But given as you acknowledge that the hypothetical is not reality, and there are real difference between teams within the league, then I'm back to expecting the better teams to have better records. Your example also seems to dull the complaints re: Caltech, as shouldn't their SOS be artificially increased?
I offered the boundary case (what you call a hypothetical, but any example requires knowing how good teams actually are which is unknowable and thus would be a hypothetical as well) to make a point and simplify the calculations. The validity of the observation is not nullified by moving slightly in from the boundary. Diminished to some extent? Sure.  But the point remains, SOS is simply not comparable between the west region and others.
Cal tech has a real effect on SOS, the calculations aren't difficult to see that. It's not fair to talk about just removing cal tech from your schedule and recalculate your SOS, unless you recalculate OWP for your other SCIAC opponents as well. But it is still detrimental to your SOS to have to schedule them 3 or 4 times.
The isolation in the West is unique.

In 2014, Texas Lutheran will have19 potential D-3 opponents in 600 mile radius.  IF, and it is a big IF, TLU can convince Hendrix (usually very average and 599 miles away) and Millsaps (602 miiles away) to play them, you can get the OOWP on the SAA to help.

In the other parts of the country we are talking about 300 mile radii. In New England, we are talking about 150 mile radii for upwards of 50 or 60 opponents.

So what's your solution? Just cut the Western teams a break because they don't want to get on a bus?
I want the members of the National committee to know D3 so well, that they can assess what the raw number of the SOS of a  New England  teams means versus a team from the West.

What makes you think they don't?
A 25-18 Bowdoin team getting a pool C last year?

Bowdoin's in the West?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 07:32:03 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 07:11:24 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 06:36:45 PM

Fact: playing the same opponents shrinks your SOS towards 1/2.

Not a fact. In the cases of Caltech and CMS, it probably results in those opponents hurting you less than they would otherwise. "Shrink" is an improper term as it assumes that otherwise your SOS would have been over .500.

The greater the proportion of your schedule is comprised of conference play, the less possible variability in your SOS. If you only play a balanced conference schedule, your SOS is .5. This is the problem in the west and why SOS can't be used so freely.

So then don't play as many conference games, or don't play a balanced conference schedule. Wow, I'm a genius.

West region teams have "moderated" SOS, more so than other regions. For pool C candidates, moderate=lower.
The reason that cal tech still hurts you is the use of unweighted averages and unbalanced schedules. You can do the calculation to see that scheduling cal tech still brings down your SOS.

You mean scheduling a bad team hurts your SOS? How unfair!
(snip)

I'm not asking for them to be excused for their schedule, I'm saying that SOS doesn't measure what you think it measures. Therefore, I'm asking that you excuse them for their SOS, because they play in the west.

The last two years, the team with the lowest SOS to get a Pool C bid was from the West. Given this fact, I'm not sure what the complaint is. It seems as if the committee is giving the West special treatment (for whatever reason, this one or another one).

Fine, we'll look at other primary criteria. And Pomona-Pitzer and Texas Lutheran still don't measure up. George Fox was judged by your own region to not be as good as either of them, so they're really not even worth talking about.

Bottom line is Chapman has earned respect. Linfield has earned respect. George Fox won a title almost a decade ago but doesn't seem to have followed up on it that well. No one from Texas has ever done anything at the national level and the successes of the SCIAC teams pre-Chapman are well in the past. I'm not seeing a problem here with regard to nationally-contending Western teams getting shut out.

My usage of the word shrink is not "improper". Rather, it's quite precise. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkage_(statistics).
As for your other flippant comments, no one "schedules" Cal Tech, nor decides how many conference games they play, balanced or otherwise. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 07:37:18 PM
So Richard, let's play a game.

You tell me, without considering SOS but considering the other primary selection criteria, who Pomona-Pitzer should be considered ahead of for a Pool C bid from among the following teams:

Washington, Oswego State, MIT, ECSU, Ramapo, Neumann, Amherst, Johns Hopkins, Christopher Newport.

The 7 Pool C bids (Marietta lost so they'll steal one now) that remain "up for grabs" will likely be given to teams in this group. So give me your case for them in the top 7, using primary criteria other than SOS -- which someone help me here if I leave something out, is head-to-head, results against regionally ranked, results against common regional opponents.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: OshDude on May 11, 2013, 07:40:13 PM
A lot of bellyaching; not a lot of memory.

Trinity (Texas) received a Pool C bid last year with a .486 SOS. Whitworth had a .485 SOS on selection day, received a No. 3 seed, and then won the regional.

Bowdoin had the second best SOS of any regionally ranked team on selection day last year and had gone 10-9 against in-region ranked teams.

There was a column last year in which the NCAA director of the baseball championship (since moved on to D-I, but the national chair is the same) stated, in clear language, that the committee does consider the factors that go into West Region SOS numbers.

EDIT IS FOR THE QUOTE:
D3: Are lower West Region strength of schedule numbers taken into consideration on selection day?

AH: They are. Everything is taken into consideration. We have a lot of discussion about the West Region and their sometimes lower strength of schedule because of the number of teams that they have to play in conference. They have to play each of their conference opponents three or four times, and you've got a couple of teams that aren't very good that you certainly have to schedule. The travel limitations limit them from getting to as many other Division III institutions as they can, so certainly that may help or hurt their strength of schedule as well. So, the committee does take that into consideration along with everything. Not one criterion is weighed heavier or more than the other, so yes, that's being considered.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 07:55:44 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 07:32:03 PM

My usage of the word shrink is not "improper". Rather, it's quite precise. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkage_(statistics).
As for your other flippant comments, no one "schedules" Cal Tech, nor decides how many conference games they play, balanced or otherwise.

Not that I'd expect different from a use of wikipedia in a serious discussion, but it doesn't seem to fit. The first definition cited implies that there was a particular data set used for fitting, never mind whether or not it works well or not. The second definition doesn't seem to fit at all because it refers to an estimator which no one has talked about.

And then there's this. "A common idea underlying both of these meanings is the reduction in the effects of sampling variation." -- That's not what is happening here at all. A schedule is not, for statistical purposes, a sample and it is certainly not a representative sample. You're not talking about a reduction in effects of sample variation being an improvement, you're talking about it being a problem.

A more common definition of "shrink" is to make smaller...which if you move something toward .500, only applies if it was previously or would otherwise be above .500 by a greater amount, which is not necessarily true or inherent.

As for your characterization of my "flippant" comments, I just have to laugh. You seem to be implying that conference membership has no say over the makeup of their schedule, as if it's all dictated to them by the league office which for some reason sees fit to force a schedule upon school that the schools do not want.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 07:57:36 PM
Quote from: Ricky Nelson on May 11, 2013, 07:40:13 PM
A lot of bellyaching; not a lot of memory.

Trinity (Texas) received a Pool C bid last year with a .486 SOS. Whitworth had a .485 SOS on selection day, received a No. 3 seed, and then won the regional.

Bowdoin had the second best SOS of any regionally ranked team on selection day last year and had gone 10-9 against in-region ranked teams.

There was a column last year in which the NCAA director of the baseball championship (since moved on to D-I, but the national chair is the same) stated, in clear language, that the committee does consider the factors that go into West Region SOS numbers.

EDIT IS FOR THE QUOTE:
D3: Are lower West Region strength of schedule numbers taken into consideration on selection day?

AH: They are. Everything is taken into consideration. We have a lot of discussion about the West Region and their sometimes lower strength of schedule because of the number of teams that they have to play in conference. They have to play each of their conference opponents three or four times, and you've got a couple of teams that aren't very good that you certainly have to schedule. The travel limitations limit them from getting to as many other Division III institutions as they can, so certainly that may help or hurt their strength of schedule as well. So, the committee does take that into consideration along with everything. Not one criterion is weighed heavier or more than the other, so yes, that's being considered.


Thank you. I would submit that there are ways around having to play those teams 3 or 4 times, but either way that proves that the complaint is null, as to the results of the Pool C selections the last two years. A worthy team from the West will get a Pool C bid. I'm not sure there is one this year. Maybe Richard will take up my invitation to show an alternative opinion.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 08:01:29 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 07:37:18 PM
So Richard, let's play a game.

You tell me, without considering SOS but considering the other primary selection criteria, who Pomona-Pitzer should be considered ahead of for a Pool C bid from among the following teams:

Washington, Oswego State, MIT, ECSU, Ramapo, Neumann, Amherst, Johns Hopkins, Christopher Newport.

The 7 Pool C bids (Marietta lost so they'll steal one now) that remain "up for grabs" will likely be given to teams in this group. So give me your case for them in the top 7, using primary criteria other than SOS -- which someone help me here if I leave something out, is head-to-head, results against regionally ranked, results against common regional opponents.
I'll decline. I'm not convinced PP should be given a pool C bid. I don't know enough about those teams to make an informed decision. Luckily, I don't have to. It's a hard problem. I've only ever argued against the claim that they clearly aren't deserving because of their SOS (one that you've essentially made).
To say that the NCAA did the west region a favor by giving Trinity a pool C with a low SOS isn't consistent with your earlier arguments. They were a 34 win team. Your claim is that you are deserving if you offset your low SOS with a high WP. That's Trinity in a nutshell. You can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 08:12:37 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 08:01:29 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 07:37:18 PM
So Richard, let's play a game.

You tell me, without considering SOS but considering the other primary selection criteria, who Pomona-Pitzer should be considered ahead of for a Pool C bid from among the following teams:

Washington, Oswego State, MIT, ECSU, Ramapo, Neumann, Amherst, Johns Hopkins, Christopher Newport.

The 7 Pool C bids (Marietta lost so they'll steal one now) that remain "up for grabs" will likely be given to teams in this group. So give me your case for them in the top 7, using primary criteria other than SOS -- which someone help me here if I leave something out, is head-to-head, results against regionally ranked, results against common regional opponents.
I'll decline. I'm not convinced PP should be given a pool C bid. I don't know enough about those teams to make an informed decision. Luckily, I don't have to. It's a hard problem. I've only ever argued against the claim that they clearly aren't deserving because of their SOS (one that you've essentially made).

No, I didn't make that claim, essentially or otherwise. For someone with such a pompous attitude, you have a real problem with reading comprehension.

To say that the NCAA did the west region a favor by giving Trinity a pool C with a low SOS isn't consistent with your earlier arguments. They were a 34 win team. Your claim is that you are deserving if you offset your low SOS with a high WP. That's Trinity in a nutshell. You can't have it both ways.

Ok now you're misrepresenting my statements. We're done.

Way to chicken out, by the way. You can read a schedule and a list of regional rankings as easily as I can (well maybe not quite as easily given your comprehension issues, but I think you could manage it).

My main point, really, is that it is the West region people trying to have it both ways...arguing that their SOS shouldn't matter, not really trying to do anything to improve it, expecting teams to come to them rather than to get on a bus. And then expecting people to believe that they've been somehow disadvantaged even though there's not much to suggest that West teams are really that competitive outside of a couple of programs that haven't really been hurt. I can't blame the coaches, you take any advantage you can manage to obtain. But it doesn't mean that they have much of a point. How often has a Western Pool C won the regional?

Don't bother answering...I'm sure you'd just misrepresent me again anyway. I'd rather be flippant than lacking functional literacy.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 08:15:37 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 07:55:44 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 07:32:03 PM

My usage of the word shrink is not "improper". Rather, it's quite precise. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkage_(statistics).
As for your other flippant comments, no one "schedules" Cal Tech, nor decides how many conference games they play, balanced or otherwise.

Not that I'd expect different from a use of wikipedia in a serious discussion, but it doesn't seem to fit. The first definition cited implies that there was a particular data set used for fitting, never mind whether or not it works well or not. The second definition doesn't seem to fit at all because it refers to an estimator which no one has talked about.

And then there's this. "A common idea underlying both of these meanings is the reduction in the effects of sampling variation." -- That's not what is happening here at all. A schedule is not, for statistical purposes, a sample and it is certainly not a representative sample. You're not talking about a reduction in effects of sample variation being an improvement, you're talking about it being a problem.

A more common definition of "shrink" is to make smaller...which if you move something toward .500, only applies if it was previously or would otherwise be above .500 by a greater amount, which is not necessarily true or inherent.

As for your characterization of my "flippant" comments, I just have to laugh. You seem to be implying that conference membership has no say over the makeup of their schedule, as if it's all dictated to them by the league office which for some reason sees fit to force a schedule upon school that the schools do not want.
I don't like referring to Wikipedia either, and that article is indeed poorly written (and clearly written by a Bayesian). The usage of shrink is the same as the conventional usage. To make smaller. In the sense of an estimator (in this case of how tough your schedule is) it means the variability from a particular value is being made smaller. As Bayesian estimates are always shrinkage estimators (towards the prior mean), a Bayesian would claim this is an improvement. Hence the language.
The longer your conference schedule, and the higher the overlap of non conference scheduling available, the closer your SOS is to .5 on average.
And a schedule is absolutely a sample (one can imagine all possible games a team could ever play as the population). The fact that its not a "representative" (of what?) sample, or I would say a random sample, is exactly my point about SOS.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 08:22:54 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 08:15:37 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 07:55:44 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 07:32:03 PM

My usage of the word shrink is not "improper". Rather, it's quite precise. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkage_(statistics).
As for your other flippant comments, no one "schedules" Cal Tech, nor decides how many conference games they play, balanced or otherwise.

Not that I'd expect different from a use of wikipedia in a serious discussion, but it doesn't seem to fit. The first definition cited implies that there was a particular data set used for fitting, never mind whether or not it works well or not. The second definition doesn't seem to fit at all because it refers to an estimator which no one has talked about.

And then there's this. "A common idea underlying both of these meanings is the reduction in the effects of sampling variation." -- That's not what is happening here at all. A schedule is not, for statistical purposes, a sample and it is certainly not a representative sample. You're not talking about a reduction in effects of sample variation being an improvement, you're talking about it being a problem.

A more common definition of "shrink" is to make smaller...which if you move something toward .500, only applies if it was previously or would otherwise be above .500 by a greater amount, which is not necessarily true or inherent.

As for your characterization of my "flippant" comments, I just have to laugh. You seem to be implying that conference membership has no say over the makeup of their schedule, as if it's all dictated to them by the league office which for some reason sees fit to force a schedule upon school that the schools do not want.
I don't like referring to Wikipedia either, and that article is indeed poorly written (and clearly written by a Bayesian). The usage of shrink is the same as the conventional usage. To make smaller. In the sense of an estimator (in this case of how tough your schedule is) it means the variability from a particular value is being made smaller. As Bayesian estimates are always shrinkage estimators (towards the prior mean), a Bayesian would claim this is an improvement. Hence the language.
The longer your conference schedule, and the higher the overlap of non conference scheduling available, the closer your SOS is to .5 on average.
And a schedule is absolutely a sample (one can imagine all possible games a team could ever play as the population). The fact that its not a "representative" (of what?) sample, or I would say a random sample, is exactly my point about SOS.

Um...great. So in defense of yourself you send a link that you admit is flawed and doesn't make the point. Awesome.

So are you claiming that the schedules are better than SOS represents them to be? That playing Caltech and CMS 4 times makes for that?

Seems like you're arguing two different things that lead to conclusions in opposite directions. And what's more, you seem to be arguing for its own sake, with no real purpose or conclusion to it...nothing you're arguing for that relates to the top teams in the West region.

And finally, as Ricky's post shows, what you're claiming is a problem really isn't because it's already being accounted for.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 08:39:37 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 08:22:54 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 08:15:37 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 07:55:44 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 07:32:03 PM

My usage of the word shrink is not "improper". Rather, it's quite precise. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkage_(statistics).
As for your other flippant comments, no one "schedules" Cal Tech, nor decides how many conference games they play, balanced or otherwise.

Not that I'd expect different from a use of wikipedia in a serious discussion, but it doesn't seem to fit. The first definition cited implies that there was a particular data set used for fitting, never mind whether or not it works well or not. The second definition doesn't seem to fit at all because it refers to an estimator which no one has talked about.

And then there's this. "A common idea underlying both of these meanings is the reduction in the effects of sampling variation." -- That's not what is happening here at all. A schedule is not, for statistical purposes, a sample and it is certainly not a representative sample. You're not talking about a reduction in effects of sample variation being an improvement, you're talking about it being a problem.

A more common definition of "shrink" is to make smaller...which if you move something toward .500, only applies if it was previously or would otherwise be above .500 by a greater amount, which is not necessarily true or inherent.

As for your characterization of my "flippant" comments, I just have to laugh. You seem to be implying that conference membership has no say over the makeup of their schedule, as if it's all dictated to them by the league office which for some reason sees fit to force a schedule upon school that the schools do not want.
I don't like referring to Wikipedia either, and that article is indeed poorly written (and clearly written by a Bayesian). The usage of shrink is the same as the conventional usage. To make smaller. In the sense of an estimator (in this case of how tough your schedule is) it means the variability from a particular value is being made smaller. As Bayesian estimates are always shrinkage estimators (towards the prior mean), a Bayesian would claim this is an improvement. Hence the language.
The longer your conference schedule, and the higher the overlap of non conference scheduling available, the closer your SOS is to .5 on average.
And a schedule is absolutely a sample (one can imagine all possible games a team could ever play as the population). The fact that its not a "representative" (of what?) sample, or I would say a random sample, is exactly my point about SOS.

Um...great. So are you claiming that the schedules are better than SOS represents them to be? That playing Caltech and CMS 4 times makes for that?

Seems like you're arguing two different things that lead to conclusions in opposite directions. And what's more, you seem to be arguing for its own sake, with no real purpose or conclusion to it...nothing you're arguing for that relates to the top teams in the West region.

And finally, as Ricky's post shows, what you're claiming is a problem really isn't because it's already being accounted for.
I'm saying that I don't know, and SOS isn't helping. I know that Cal Tech And CMS are bad. I don't know how good the rest of the SCIAC is. It doesn't matter to SOS either (other than the league looked good against Kean and Ithaca and Bridgewater and that's a lot of the reason SOS tends to be over .5). Maybe the national committee has this nailed down. Maybe not. I don't know what happens there. I don't see a lot of evidence supporting that they have it figured out. I don't even know what that would look like. They shipped in two teams last year, somehow they found some reason to think the west was a bad region. SOS is a primary criterion. I can't see how to use this well.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 09:03:53 PM
Quote from: Richard Hamstocks on May 11, 2013, 08:39:37 PM

I'm saying that I don't know, and SOS isn't helping. I know that Cal Tech And CMS are bad. I don't know how good the rest of the SCIAC is. It doesn't matter to SOS either (other than the league looked good against Kean and Ithaca and Bridgewater and that's a lot of the reason SOS tends to be over .5). Maybe the national committee has this nailed down. Maybe not. I don't know what happens there. I don't see a lot of evidence supporting that they have it figured out. I don't even know what that would look like. They shipped in two teams last year, somehow they found some reason to think the west was a bad region. SOS is a primary criterion. I can't see how to use this well.

"A" criterion, and rightly so. Not the only one, also rightly so. What evidence do you seem that suggests they haven't figured it out? What's a case where SOS misled? Who should have gotten in last year that didn't?

Kean and Ithaca and Bridgewater don't have all winter to be outside. I thought we were all pretty clear on how that worked. I'm still waiting for a western team to go to New Jersey in May and travel around and play a bunch of road games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on May 11, 2013, 09:15:44 PM
You will probably be waiting for quite awhile for a west region team to travel back east during May due to conference games, tourneys and a little matter called school with finals and graduation and the like. And with the weather an unknown earlier in the season, that is why eastern teams travel west and south. If I were a west region school, I probably would not risk all the travel money...committed and paid for ahead of time only to have rain, hail, sleet or snow cancellations. You do make good points though.

Interesting debate between you guys!

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 11, 2013, 09:33:13 PM
I don't think the eastern teams will go west as often either now that it's going to be counted against them if they lose to a team that may have played 15-20 more games than them and been outside all winter.

NJAC tournament was done last weekend. Some NJAC teams are still playing games. Cortland -- same thing. I don't look for any snow or sleet in May in New Jersey.

I don't look for it to happen, either. But it would only be fair as many times as teams have gone west to play them with no return game.

There's risk anywhere. Marietta went to Texas one year and almost got hit by a tornado. I guess a wildfire came close to Cal Lu. Rain is a constant concern in Oregon. There are rainouts on spring trips in Florida...you're never going to get away from that except in the Metrodome, which that option is going away as well.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 11, 2013, 11:19:12 PM
I can't speak for all the teams in the West but I know UT Tyler has never traveled more than a one day bus ride. So that limits them to about a 500 mile radius. They went to Abilene to play a few years back when McMurray and Hardin Simmons hosted Marietta and a couple of other teams from out of the region but that has been it. Those games were held in late February - early March before conference play started. Once conference play starts, the opportunity for extended travel ends. 

I think many of the ASC teams have similar budgetary constraints.  The administrations of those schools will support the programs up to a point but limit travel budgets. So UT Tyler has several fill games with non-DIV III opponents during the week that are no more than 2-3 hour bus rides away.  They don't drive down to San Antonio to play Trinity because it is an all-day drive one way.  California is out of the question and forget about the northwest. Thus they hope that eastern or north western schools will travel south in the early months since the weather, although iffy at times, is a whole lot better than snow and temps in the 20s and 30s. I don't see this ever changing.

So given the distances and budgetary constraints it is what it is and the West, for the most part, is confined to three issolated islands - Texas, Southern California and the North West. The islands are too far from each other for regular play and too far from most of the other DIII Schools. So they are confined to their islands for the most part with the possible exception of 3 or 4 early non-conference games.   That is 3 or 4 games out of 40 and no one can predict how good those opponents will be. This year Tyler played Whitworth a team that did well a year ago but not so much this year. You take a gamble when you fill out a schedule for an upcoming season based on past results.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 12, 2013, 02:16:23 PM
SOS sucks IMO...

How about D3 winning percentage?  Yes it is not perfect but at least your winning it on the field.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2013, 02:41:22 PM
IMHO, the best option is the one that coaches have already created, the Arizona mid-February tourney.  It is in the best interest of everyone to keep supporting it.  Three or four of the better teams from the four conferences, ASC, NWC, SCAC and SCIAC, can go and we fans can get a good idea of who is really good out of the gate.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 12, 2013, 04:19:52 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2013, 02:41:22 PM
IMHO, the best option is the one that coaches have already created, the Arizona mid-February tourney.  It is in the best interest of everyone to keep supporting it.  Three or four of the better teams from the four conferences, ASC, NWC, SCAC and SCIAC, can go and we fans can get a good idea of who is really good out of the gate.

I just don't put much stock in an early pre-conference tournament. I think the games would be entertaining and would be a big hit with the players. It is always exciting to travel and play in a tournament type setting. However, in so far as determining how good a team is at the end of the season and use it as some form of tie breaker with respect to Pool C qualifiers, not so much. I tend to agree that the overall record against DIII opponents as a better less subjective gage. The danger there is schedule manipulation. Strong teams may try to deliberately schedule weak teams so they can stack their DIII winning %.  This is less likely to occur in the West than in the East do to the lack of opponents to choose from.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 12, 2013, 05:43:42 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 12, 2013, 02:16:23 PM
SOS sucks IMO...

How about D3 winning percentage?  Yes it is not perfect but at least your winning it on the field.

So then it doesn't matter at all who you play, and no incentive to even play another good team unless you have to? No way.

I'm excited for the game-is-a-game era. I think there will be even more incentive to play the best competition. There were so many heavyweight matchups that "didn't count" this year that will next year. That aspect of your schedule will matter, and the strength of the opponents you play. Whether a team is 197 or 203 miles away won't matter anymore. All that matters is baseball.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 13, 2013, 08:37:15 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I bet you are all surprised.....3 Texas teams in a Texas Regional.

Guess what SOS don't mean as much as it used to....I am glad to see the West Region gets all the west teams in the West in one place. I guess George Fox did not have enough to take out TLU.

I bet there are lot of people not happy. Remember I did not see the NCAA publish their criteria for picking teams in 2013. Maybe they don't use what they used in 2012 and prior years.

West Regional at Tornado Field; Austin, Texas
1. Linfield
2. Cal Lutheran
3. Texas-Tyler
4. Pomona-Pitzer
5. Trinity (Texas)
6. Texas Lutheran
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 13, 2013, 08:40:38 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 12, 2013, 05:43:42 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 12, 2013, 02:16:23 PM
SOS sucks IMO...

How about D3 winning percentage?  Yes it is not perfect but at least your winning it on the field.

So then it doesn't matter at all who you play, and no incentive to even play another good team unless you have to? No way.

I'm excited for the game-is-a-game era. I think there will be even more incentive to play the best competition. There were so many heavyweight matchups that "didn't count" this year that will next year. That aspect of your schedule will matter, and the strength of the opponents you play. Whether a team is 197 or 203 miles away won't matter anymore. All that matters is baseball.
Don't expect teams from the East to play games in West. Ithaca and Kean are 2 that come to mind. Why risk a loss in the West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 13, 2013, 08:44:29 AM

I bet you are all surprised.....3 Texas teams in a Texas Regional.

Guess what SOS don't mean as much as it used to....I am glad to see the West Region gets all the west teams in the West in one place. I guess George Fox did not have enough to take out TLU.

I bet there are lot of people not happy. Remember I did not see the NCAA publish their criteria for picking teams in 2013. Maybe they don't use what they used in 2012 and prior years.

West Regional at Tornado Field; Austin, Texas
1. Linfield
2. Cal Lutheran
3. Texas-Tyler
4. Pomona-Pitzer   ;D ;D ;D ;D
5. Trinity (Texas)
6. Texas Lutheran  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

SOS What's that
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 13, 2013, 09:19:08 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 13, 2013, 08:44:29 AM

I bet you are all surprised.....3 Texas teams in a Texas Regional.

Guess what SOS don't mean as much as it used to....I am glad to see the West Region gets all the west teams in the West in one place. I guess George Fox did not have enough to take out TLU.

I bet there are lot of people not happy. Remember I did not see the NCAA publish their criteria for picking teams in 2013. Maybe they don't use what they used in 2012 and prior years.

West Regional at Tornado Field; Austin, Texas
1. Linfield
2. Cal Lutheran
3. Texas-Tyler
4. Pomona-Pitzer   ;D ;D ;D ;D
5. Trinity (Texas)
6. Texas Lutheran  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

SOS What's that
going to be a great regional and all first round matchups have teams playing eachother for the first time. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 13, 2013, 09:27:45 AM
You have to beat the team you are playing but CLU got shafted on this one. I would not want to be playing TU as a 5 seed. Will be a fun regional to watch with 3 Texas teams playing in Texas. Should be a big fan draw for Concordia, too bad they are not in it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 13, 2013, 10:55:27 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 13, 2013, 08:40:38 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 12, 2013, 05:43:42 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 12, 2013, 02:16:23 PM
SOS sucks IMO...

How about D3 winning percentage?  Yes it is not perfect but at least your winning it on the field.

So then it doesn't matter at all who you play, and no incentive to even play another good team unless you have to? No way.

I'm excited for the game-is-a-game era. I think there will be even more incentive to play the best competition. There were so many heavyweight matchups that "didn't count" this year that will next year. That aspect of your schedule will matter, and the strength of the opponents you play. Whether a team is 197 or 203 miles away won't matter anymore. All that matters is baseball.
Don't expect teams from the East to play games in West. Ithaca and Kean are 2 that come to mind. Why risk a loss in the West.

I agree with the idea but not the reason. "Risking a loss" is not what it's about. Like I say, do a home and home and you have room to make that argument. Expect them to always play on the road, early season, when they could just as easily go to Florida or somewhere else on the eastern seaboard...and you really don't.

Neither of the schools you mention are afraid to play strong opponents.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 13, 2013, 10:57:25 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 13, 2013, 08:44:29 AM

I bet you are all surprised.....3 Texas teams in a Texas Regional.

Guess what SOS don't mean as much as it used to....I am glad to see the West Region gets all the west teams in the West in one place. I guess George Fox did not have enough to take out TLU.

I bet there are lot of people not happy. Remember I did not see the NCAA publish their criteria for picking teams in 2013. Maybe they don't use what they used in 2012 and prior years.

West Regional at Tornado Field; Austin, Texas
1. Linfield
2. Cal Lutheran
3. Texas-Tyler
4. Pomona-Pitzer   ;D ;D ;D ;D
5. Trinity (Texas)
6. Texas Lutheran  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

SOS What's that

I guess you don't really have to play anyone as long as a regional is in your very large state. Better teams have been left out in the past...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 13, 2013, 11:21:18 AM
I am glad that the West was able to field 6 teams. The big surprise for me was Trinity being ranked 5th. I did not see that coming at all.  That certainly is at total odds with all the National Polls which have Trinity as a top 10 team nationwide. The last two regional rankings had them in 4th or tied with UTT for 3rd. They won their conference tournament and beat a good  Centenary team to do so. How they ended up 5th behind P-P is a mystery to me.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 13, 2013, 11:25:03 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 13, 2013, 11:21:18 AM
I am glad that the West was able to field 6 teams. The big surprise for me was Trinity being ranked 5th. I did not see that coming at all.  That certainly is at total odds with all the National Polls which have Trinity as a top 10 team nationwide. The last two regional rankings had them in 4th or tied with UTT for 3rd. They won their conference tournament and beat a good  Centenary team to do so. How they ended up 5th behind P-P is a mystery to me.
i am guessing it had to do with matchups and maybe the committed wanted all first round games vs teams who havent played yet. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 13, 2013, 12:00:28 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on May 13, 2013, 11:25:03 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 13, 2013, 11:21:18 AM
I am glad that the West was able to field 6 teams. The big surprise for me was Trinity being ranked 5th. I did not see that coming at all.  That certainly is at total odds with all the National Polls which have Trinity as a top 10 team nationwide. The last two regional rankings had them in 4th or tied with UTT for 3rd. They won their conference tournament and beat a good  Centenary team to do so. How they ended up 5th behind P-P is a mystery to me.
i am guessing it had to do with matchups and maybe the committed wanted all first round games vs teams who havent played yet.
It seems the primary reason was to prevent PP and CLU, two teams from the same conference, from playing each other in the first game. But then flipping PP and Trinity instead of PP and TLU prevents a PP-Linfield matchup after those two teams played a 3 game set earlier this year.

As a Sagehen fan, I'll take it. Clearly Linfield and CLU had our number this year, so seeing someone different is fine by me. I do think it's a little bizarre to have, as Texas BB mentioned, a Trinity team that is ranked 3rd in the country in the ABCA poll (granted, slightly different criteria) as a 5 seed in a regional.

But I don't actually think it's a bad matchup for them. Getting to face CLU early is probably your best shot against them. The difference between their three starters isn't all that big (Petersen is good, but by no means dominant), and you get to throw Lucero against that absurd offense they have. Now, in a double elimination tournament, there's nothing that prevents you from seeing them later and having matchup issues then. But having the opportunity to give them a loss and put them in the losers' bracket right off the bat is probably a good thing.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 13, 2013, 02:18:00 PM
Let's not write off TLU so quickly.

The West Region has always been known for its balance.

Both TU games were mid-week games.

Here are the box scores for its games against regional opponents

March 12, 2013.

TU 8, TLU 6.  It is TU who has the bad inning with 5 unearned runs on

http://www.d3baseball.com/seasons/2013/boxscores/20130312_wj98.xml

TU 3, TLU 2  TU has two unearned runs in the 3-run 5th inning on 04/16/2013

http://www.d3baseball.com/seasons/2013/boxscores/20130416_816s.xml

UTT got to Aleman in game #2 of the ASC Finals.

http://www.d3baseball.com/seasons/2013/boxscores/20130504_f8k9.xml



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 13, 2013, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 13, 2013, 02:18:00 PM
Let's not write off TLU so quickly.

The West Region has always been known for its balance.

It has? I thought it was known for Chapman usually roaring through except when they're down.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 13, 2013, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 13, 2013, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 13, 2013, 02:18:00 PM
Let's not write off TLU so quickly.

The West Region has always been known for its balance.
.

It has? I thought it was known for Chapman usually roaring through except when they're down.
Last time I checked it has been mostly Chapman and Linfield that has ended up in Appleton more than once in the past 10 years. Not sure you would call that BALANCE....I expect Linfield to make it there again
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 13, 2013, 07:24:07 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 13, 2013, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 13, 2013, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 13, 2013, 02:18:00 PM
Let's not write off TLU so quickly.

The West Region has always been known for its balance.
.

It has? I thought it was known for Chapman usually roaring through except when they're down.
Last time I checked it has been mostly Chapman and Linfield that has ended up in Appleton more than once in the past 10 years. Not sure you would call that BALANCE....I expect Linfield to make it there again

I thought Linfield made it through another regional one year. I haven't looked at the matchups yet for that region but that's my preliminary guess as well.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 13, 2013, 11:11:25 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 13, 2013, 07:24:07 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 13, 2013, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 13, 2013, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 13, 2013, 02:18:00 PM
Let's not write off TLU so quickly.

The West Region has always been known for its balance.
.

It has? I thought it was known for Chapman usually roaring through except when they're down.
Last time I checked it has been mostly Chapman and Linfield that has ended up in Appleton more than once in the past 10 years. Not sure you would call that BALANCE....I expect Linfield to make it there again

I thought Linfield made it through another regional one year. I haven't looked at the matchups yet for that region but that's my preliminary guess as well.
It did. Linfield won (?) the Central Region about 5 years ago.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 14, 2013, 12:02:32 AM
Could this be the year a team from Texas makes it to Appleton? 3 teams in 6 team regional from Texas.

Has a team ever made it from Texas since the NCAA DIII Championship round was moved to Appleton?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on May 14, 2013, 12:20:52 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 14, 2013, 12:02:32 AM
Could this be the year a team from Texas makes it to Appleton? 3 teams in 6 team regional from Texas.

Has a team ever made it from Texas since the NCAA DIII Championship round was moved to Appleton?

Concordia beat Trinity in the 2002 West Regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on May 14, 2013, 12:26:53 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 14, 2013, 12:02:32 AM
Could this be the year a team from Texas makes it to Appleton? 3 teams in 6 team regional from Texas.

Has a team ever made it from Texas since the NCAA DIII Championship round was moved to Appleton?

I believe that Concordia made it to the championship round in 2002. InfieldDad or someone else can help me out here, but they had 3 studs on the bump and Timothy Gardener and David White in the middle of their line-up.

The next year TLU went 37-6, lost the ASC tournament and got left at home.

In '04 Trinity lost to eventual National Champion George Fox in the West region championship. In '05 Chapman won 2 two against TLU out of the loser's bracket to advance. In '06 Chapman edged TLU in the regional championship. In '08 Trinity lost to a 39-3 Chapman team near the end (the championship?) of the West regional. Last year Trinity was eliminated by Whitworth.

I'd say that Trinity and TLU have had some good runs and just ran into, more times than not, really strong Chapman teams, often Chapman teams playing in their back yard (not that they weren't great teams mind you).

And to answer your original question. No, it's doubtful this is the year that a Texas team breaks that streak.

JSG



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2013, 01:15:37 AM
I went back thru some of the archives and message boards. Here is a summary of the last 5 regionals.

2008 #1 seed Chapman defeats #5 seed Trinity to win its 4th straight West Regional..

2009 #2 seed Chapman defeats #4 seed GFU in the 10th inning for its 5th straight regional.

2010 -  6 of the Top 17 teams in the country for this (bad weather)  regional.  #2 Linfield beat #5 seed Mississippi College in game 11. Miss Coll had beaten Linfield in Game 2 of the series.

2011 -  #2 Chapman beat #1 seed Linfield.  (#6 Concordia TX beat #1 Linfield in the opener.)

2012 -- #3 Whitworth beat #2 Trinity in Game 11.  St Johns was flown in as a Pool C and was quickly eliminated. 

This tourney is usually very competitive.  (Various fans will recall some really stinko performances, but I anticipate same great games from a balanced field.)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on May 14, 2013, 01:23:36 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2013, 01:15:37 AM
or this (bad weather)  regional. 

...Hey Ralph was there some bad weather at that regional?  This HAS to be the 1st time you've ever mentioned it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 14, 2013, 02:39:37 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2013, 01:15:37 AM
I went back thru some of the archives and message boards. Here is a summary of the last 5 regionals.

2008 #1 seed Chapman defeats #5 seed Trinity to win its 4th straight West Regional..

2009 #2 seed Chapman defeats #4 seed GFU in the 10th inning for its 5th straight regional.

2010 -  6 of the Top 17 teams in the country for this (bad weather)  regional.  #2 Linfield beat #5 seed Mississippi College in game 11. Miss Coll had beaten Linfield in Game 2 of the series.

2011 -  #2 Chapman beat #1 seed Linfield.  (#6 Concordia TX beat #1 Linfield in the opener.)

2012 -- #3 Whitworth beat #2 Trinity in Game 11.  St Johns was flown in as a Pool C and was quickly eliminated. 

This tourney is usually very competitive.  (Various fans will recall some really stinko performances, but I anticipate same great games from a balanced field.)

Same team wins 6 out of 8 = very competitive?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 14, 2013, 09:22:14 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 14, 2013, 02:39:37 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2013, 01:15:37 AM
I went back thru some of the archives and message boards. Here is a summary of the last 5 regionals.

2008 #1 seed Chapman defeats #5 seed Trinity to win its 4th straight West Regional..

2009 #2 seed Chapman defeats #4 seed GFU in the 10th inning for its 5th straight regional.

2010 -  6 of the Top 17 teams in the country for this (bad weather)  regional.  #2 Linfield beat #5 seed Mississippi College in game 11. Miss Coll had beaten Linfield in Game 2 of the series.

2011 -  #2 Chapman beat #1 seed Linfield.  (#6 Concordia TX beat #1 Linfield in the opener.)

2012 -- #3 Whitworth beat #2 Trinity in Game 11.  St Johns was flown in as a Pool C and was quickly eliminated. 

This tourney is usually very competitive.  (Various fans will recall some really stinko performances, but I anticipate same great games from a balanced field.)

Same team wins 6 out of 8 = very competitive?
Since 1997 Chapman has won 10 regionals....But I would not expect any more in the near future.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 14, 2013, 09:27:31 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 14, 2013, 02:39:37 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2013, 01:15:37 AM
I went back thru some of the archives and message boards. Here is a summary of the last 5 regionals.

2008 #1 seed Chapman defeats #5 seed Trinity to win its 4th straight West Regional..

2009 #2 seed Chapman defeats #4 seed GFU in the 10th inning for its 5th straight regional.

2010 -  6 of the Top 17 teams in the country for this (bad weather)  regional.  #2 Linfield beat #5 seed Mississippi College in game 11. Miss Coll had beaten Linfield in Game 2 of the series.

2011 -  #2 Chapman beat #1 seed Linfield.  (#6 Concordia TX beat #1 Linfield in the opener.)

2012 -- #3 Whitworth beat #2 Trinity in Game 11.  St Johns was flown in as a Pool C and was quickly eliminated. 

This tourney is usually very competitive.  (Various fans will recall some really stinko performances, but I anticipate same great games from a balanced field.)

Same team wins 6 out of 8 = very competitive?
I would say the ACC basketball tournament is very competitive and the same team has won it 10 of the last 15 years.  I guess the Mid-east Region isn't very competitive since the same team has won 5 of the last 7 regionals as well.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on May 14, 2013, 09:45:52 AM
I followed Concordia in the early 2000's, knew a couple of players from HS on the team so I attended a few games. Concordia made it to Appleton in 2002 beating Trinity in the Georgetown regional.  The Concordia 2002 team hard to believe is the only D3 team from the state of Texas to make it to Appleton.

Interesting they also played Texas at Disch Faulk field that year and lost a double header 7-1, 7-1. The same Texas team that went on to win the World Series in Omaha.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 14, 2013, 04:46:09 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on May 14, 2013, 09:27:31 AM
I would say the ACC basketball tournament is very competitive and the same team has won it 10 of the last 15 years.  I guess the Mid-east Region isn't very competitive since the same team has won 5 of the last 7 regionals as well.

Makes sense except that 3 of those 5 years no one else had any more luck with them. The regional was tougher than the series in 2006 by a mile. I felt bad for Otterbein that year, and Manchester could easily have knocked out Marietta also. Beat Zimmermann in the opener in Wisconsin and then no one had anything for them after that.

2011 Marietta roared through to the championship game, then ran Chapman out of pitching.
2012 the regional and the series were both tough. Lost the second game in both, Wheaton arguably made a mistake not trying to take out Marietta in the throwaway game in Appleton.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 14, 2013, 04:47:08 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 14, 2013, 09:22:14 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 14, 2013, 02:39:37 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2013, 01:15:37 AM
I went back thru some of the archives and message boards. Here is a summary of the last 5 regionals.

2008 #1 seed Chapman defeats #5 seed Trinity to win its 4th straight West Regional..

2009 #2 seed Chapman defeats #4 seed GFU in the 10th inning for its 5th straight regional.

2010 -  6 of the Top 17 teams in the country for this (bad weather)  regional.  #2 Linfield beat #5 seed Mississippi College in game 11. Miss Coll had beaten Linfield in Game 2 of the series.

2011 -  #2 Chapman beat #1 seed Linfield.  (#6 Concordia TX beat #1 Linfield in the opener.)

2012 -- #3 Whitworth beat #2 Trinity in Game 11.  St Johns was flown in as a Pool C and was quickly eliminated. 

This tourney is usually very competitive.  (Various fans will recall some really stinko performances, but I anticipate same great games from a balanced field.)

Same team wins 6 out of 8 = very competitive?
Since 1997 Chapman has won 10 regionals....But I would not expect any more in the near future.

I hope that's not true and I kind of don't think it will be. Chapman should be a very attractive job opening.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on May 14, 2013, 09:53:55 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 13, 2013, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 13, 2013, 02:18:00 PM
Let's not write off TLU so quickly.

The West Region has always been known for its balance.

It has? I thought it was known for Chapman usually roaring through except when they're down.

Well there's been George Fox, who actually won it all, and Linfield made a respectable showing in Appleton. CUA has been there as well. So I wouldn't say that no one besides Chapman has shown anything. I don't think it's too much different than how Marietta has dominated the Mideast...other programs have made the series and shown well, but no one else has won a championship.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 15, 2013, 12:45:53 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 14, 2013, 04:46:09 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on May 14, 2013, 09:27:31 AM
I would say the ACC basketball tournament is very competitive and the same team has won it 10 of the last 15 years.  I guess the Mid-east Region isn't very competitive since the same team has won 5 of the last 7 regionals as well.

Makes sense except that 3 of those 5 years no one else had any more luck with them. The regional was tougher than the series in 2006 by a mile. I felt bad for Otterbein that year, and Manchester could easily have knocked out Marietta also. Beat Zimmermann in the opener in Wisconsin and then no one had anything for them after that.

2011 Marietta roared through to the championship game, then ran Chapman out of pitching.
2012 the regional and the series were both tough. Lost the second game in both, Wheaton arguably made a mistake not trying to take out Marietta in the throwaway game in Appleton.
can we talk about how ridiculously stupid this is.....what the hell is a throwaway game???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 15, 2013, 02:33:48 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on May 15, 2013, 12:45:53 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 14, 2013, 04:46:09 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on May 14, 2013, 09:27:31 AM
I would say the ACC basketball tournament is very competitive and the same team has won it 10 of the last 15 years.  I guess the Mid-east Region isn't very competitive since the same team has won 5 of the last 7 regionals as well.

Makes sense except that 3 of those 5 years no one else had any more luck with them. The regional was tougher than the series in 2006 by a mile. I felt bad for Otterbein that year, and Manchester could easily have knocked out Marietta also. Beat Zimmermann in the opener in Wisconsin and then no one had anything for them after that.

2011 Marietta roared through to the championship game, then ran Chapman out of pitching.
2012 the regional and the series were both tough. Lost the second game in both, Wheaton arguably made a mistake not trying to take out Marietta in the throwaway game in Appleton.
can we talk about how ridiculously stupid this is.....what the hell is a throwaway game???

A game that obviously wasn't. It's the game that the winner's bracket team has to play but doesn't have to win to make the championship. Last year, Wheaton put in two relatively inexperienced relief pitchers that walked 6 guys in the last 3 innings, including walking in the winning run for Marietta, which stayed alive and then beat Wheaton in the championship.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 15, 2013, 02:41:30 AM
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on May 14, 2013, 09:53:55 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 13, 2013, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 13, 2013, 02:18:00 PM
Let's not write off TLU so quickly.

The West Region has always been known for its balance.

It has? I thought it was known for Chapman usually roaring through except when they're down.

Well there's been George Fox, who actually won it all, and Linfield made a respectable showing in Appleton. CUA has been there as well. So I wouldn't say that no one besides Chapman has shown anything. I don't think it's too much different than how Marietta has dominated the Mideast...other programs have made the series and shown well, but no one else has won a championship.

The difference is addressed above. GF's title was almost a decade ago and under a different coach.

Quite a while ago I did an analysis of how each region fares in Appleton...the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic were the best, then I believe New England and the Mideast. West was in the middle, then South, NY and Central, IIRC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on May 15, 2013, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 15, 2013, 02:41:30 AM
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on May 14, 2013, 09:53:55 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 13, 2013, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 13, 2013, 02:18:00 PM
Let's not write off TLU so quickly.

The West Region has always been known for its balance.

It has? I thought it was known for Chapman usually roaring through except when they're down.

Well there's been George Fox, who actually won it all, and Linfield made a respectable showing in Appleton. CUA has been there as well. So I wouldn't say that no one besides Chapman has shown anything. I don't think it's too much different than how Marietta has dominated the Mideast...other programs have made the series and shown well, but no one else has won a championship.

The difference is addressed above. GF's title was almost a decade ago and under a different coach.

Quite a while ago I did an analysis of how each region fares in Appleton...the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic were the best, then I believe New England and the Mideast. West was in the middle, then South, NY and Central, IIRC.

You realize those were your words, not mine...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on May 15, 2013, 10:49:31 AM
The West has two or three teams each year that could go into Appleton and do some serious damage. Its unfortunate the Region is so spread out the way it is and the same teams have to face each other in such a large region. To say the West would be a middle of the pack region is almost laughable.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on May 15, 2013, 11:32:15 AM
Quote from: BamColt on May 15, 2013, 10:49:31 AM
The West has two or three teams each year that could go into Appleton and do some serious damage. Its unfortunate the Region is so spread out the way it is and the same teams have to face each other in such a large region. To say the West would be a middle of the pack region is almost laughable.

We are a large region geographically but I'm not sure if that's the case as far as the quantity of D3 programs.  Look at the regional rankings.  Someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong but I believe the Regional committees rank the top 15% of teams in every region.  You'll notice the West has 6 regionally ranked teams.  Something like 38 x .15 = 6 (rnded up).  Other regions have as many as ten teams ranked which would mean they have more schools in that region.  In my eyes, D3 was designed around the premise of regional competition (to limit the burden on student athletes and financial budgets) and then bring the best of all the regions together to crown a national champion.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 15, 2013, 11:37:41 AM
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on May 15, 2013, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 15, 2013, 02:41:30 AM
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on May 14, 2013, 09:53:55 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 13, 2013, 03:40:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 13, 2013, 02:18:00 PM
Let's not write off TLU so quickly.

The West Region has always been known for its balance.

It has? I thought it was known for Chapman usually roaring through except when they're down.

Well there's been George Fox, who actually won it all, and Linfield made a respectable showing in Appleton. CUA has been there as well. So I wouldn't say that no one besides Chapman has shown anything. I don't think it's too much different than how Marietta has dominated the Mideast...other programs have made the series and shown well, but no one else has won a championship.

The difference is addressed above. GF's title was almost a decade ago and under a different coach.

Quite a while ago I did an analysis of how each region fares in Appleton...the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic were the best, then I believe New England and the Mideast. West was in the middle, then South, NY and Central, IIRC.

You realize those were your words, not mine...

??? I give up.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 15, 2013, 11:40:06 AM
Quote from: BamColt on May 15, 2013, 10:49:31 AM
The West has two or three teams each year that could go into Appleton and do some serious damage. Its unfortunate the Region is so spread out the way it is and the same teams have to face each other in such a large region. To say the West would be a middle of the pack region is almost laughable.

Not would be...is. Facts are what they are. Feel free to look up the analysis. It's somewhere on this board. I've given up on educating most of you so I'm not really inclined to do much digging for it.

West fans on this board are often akin to Big Ten fans in college football...convinced of their greatness despite all evidence to the contrary.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on May 15, 2013, 11:47:09 AM

??? I give up.
[/quote]

Maybe I should clarify.  That was your your post from earlier this season.

[/quote]

Well there's been George Fox, who actually won it all, and Linfield made a respectable showing in Appleton. CUA has been there as well. So I wouldn't say that no one besides Chapman has shown anything. I don't think it's too much different than how Marietta has dominated the Mideast...other programs have made the series and shown well, but no one else has won a championship.
[/quote]

You said the West region wasn't much different than the Mideast and that those other teams had shown something.   ???   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 15, 2013, 12:00:50 PM
I don't think either region is as strong as the Midwest or Mid-Atlantic. New England is pretty strong as well. No one in the Mideast other than Marietta has ever won a national championship, but IMO several times that's been because of Marietta beating teams in the regional that could have won Appleton.

I tried to look up the post and it doesn't appear to be saved in the archives.

If you want set up a Chapman/Marietta proportion then the obvious and logical conclusion is that the Mideast is better than the West, which puts the West no better than the 5th best region...so not really any different than I said.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2013, 12:25:44 PM
Quote from: BamColt on May 15, 2013, 10:49:31 AM
The West has two or three teams each year that could go into Appleton and do some serious damage. Its unfortunate the Region is so spread out the way it is and the same teams have to face each other in such a large region. To say the West would be a middle of the pack region is almost laughable.
I think that the West is about middle of the pack.

In the mid-2000's, McMurry hosted a spring break tourney.  When Montclair State came down (from the NJAC) to participate, Coach Lee Driggers (now at ETBU) was impressed with the raw talent that they had.  Extrapolating Montclair State to their outcome in the NJAC, I surmised that they were representative of the top half of the NJAC.

In D-1, all of the ultra-elite high school talent in the colder climates that can some south and west does.

In D-3, all of the good-but-not-ultra-elite talent that doesn't want to go 1000 miles away from home to college on "1/8th" of a baseball scholarship goes to the local D-3 and gets plenty of playing time.  Northern schools give playing time to the 4th, 5th and 6th starting pitchers.  I think that is the difference.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on May 15, 2013, 12:41:43 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 15, 2013, 12:00:50 PM
I don't think either region is as strong as the Midwest or Mid-Atlantic. New England is pretty strong as well. No one in the Mideast other than Marietta has ever won a national championship, but IMO several times that's been because of Marietta beating teams in the regional that could have won Appleton.

I tried to look up the post and it doesn't appear to be saved in the archives.

If you want set up a Chapman/Marietta proportion then the obvious and logical conclusion is that the Mideast is better than the West, which puts the West no better than the 5th best region...so not really any different than I said.

I agree.  Similar to how Marietta beat what you considered national championship caliber teams in the Mideast some years, I feel Chapman did the same some years in the West.  And I don't think the West is the best region either.  I do however think the top teams in the West would hold their own year in and year out against other regions.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 15, 2013, 01:22:24 PM
I'm a West homer but I do not see the West being an elite region due to the fact that the season is set up so different than the cold weather regions.  West schools use 3 starters (for the most part) and staff it during the week.  Come tournament time they are screwed.  Cold weather schools have 4-5-6 legit starters with experience and that takes them far in the long run.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 22, 2013, 12:25:26 PM
In the end the top teams in the West (based on the regional tournament) finished as follows"

Linfield
Trinity
UT Tyler
Cal Lutheran
Tex Lutheran
P-P

Both P-P and Tex Lutheran went 0-2 games but P-P gave up more runs.

The only big surprise to me was Cal Lutheran only winning one game. Their offense was for the most part shut down and they did not have the pitching depth to compete. UT Tyler did about as expected. Trinity may have done better than most people expected. Going into the tournament  the general consensus was it would be be a battle between Cal Lutheran and Linefield.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on May 22, 2013, 12:38:47 PM
JP is correct. Hopefully the SCIAC will go to 4 game weekends next year (I doubt it) which would force the teams to develop a fourth (or fifth) starter for the non-conference games played during the week. CU was fortunate during D3 tourneys where they advanced to have good relief pitching they could  rely on instead of a fourth of fifth starter. Also picher injuries reduced the number of starters for CU during tourney time.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 22, 2013, 01:00:42 PM
I am biased  ;D but I thought it would end up like:

Trinity
Linfield
Cal Lutheran
UT Tyler
P-P
Tex Lutheran

Trinity had the best pitching staff there, they were the best defensive team but just could not get it done with runners in scoring position. Coming from a D1 world I did not expect Linfield to have the pitching, and Hadeland proved that wrong-  big time. CLU was better than their record, the game they lost to Trinity could have gone either way, (actually that could be said of a lot of games at the regional, very balanced)  I am not sure why, but CLU did not seem to have the "fire in their belly" like some of the other teams.

Linfield had the best offensive line up by far. I was very impressed with them and they have some real physical specimens. If you look up "manly" in the dictionary you will see their 3-4-5-6 hitters.  ;) Very disciplined team, excellent base runners. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 01:06:34 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 22, 2013, 01:00:42 PM
I am biased  ;D but I thought it would end up like:

Trinity
Linfield
Cal Lutheran
UT Tyler
P-P
Tex Lutheran

Trinity had the best pitching staff there, they were the best defensive team but just could not get it done with runners in scoring position. Coming from a D1 world I did not expect Linfield to have the pitching, and Hadeland proved that wrong-  big time. CLU was better than their record, the game they lost to Trinity could have gone either way, (actually that could be said of a lot of games at the regional, very balanced)  I am not sure why, but CLU did not seem to have the "fire in their belly" like some of the other teams.

Linfield had the best offensive line up by far. I was very impressed with them and they have some real physical specimens. If you look up "manly" in the dictionary you will see their 3-4-5-6 hitters.  ;) Very disciplined team, excellent base runners. 
I was suprised that CLU for a team that was one of the top teams in hitting in the DIII it could not score more runs. Great pitching shuts done great hitters.

Linfield did not suprise me. They do just enough to get things done and they get big time performance by their players stepping up and have big time games. A few runs either way could have made a difference. Teams were very close to each other.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: dahlby on May 22, 2013, 12:38:47 PM
JP is correct. Hopefully the SCIAC will go to 4 game weekends next year (I doubt it) which would force the teams to develop a fourth (or fifth) starter for the non-conference games played during the week. CU was fortunate during D3 tourneys where they advanced to have good relief pitching they could  rely on instead of a fourth of fifth starter. Also picher injuries reduced the number of starters for CU during tourney time.
4 game series for SCIAC would help them develop that 4th starter. 1 on Friday, 2 Saturday 1 Sunday would be a good format. BUT I doubt they will make this change with so much emphasis on academics at the SCIAC schools. This would eliminate the MTWTH games for the most part
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 01:25:49 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 01:09:17 PM
BUT I doubt they will make this change with so much emphasis on academics at the SCIAC schools. This would eliminate the MTWTH games for the most part

Wouldn't this be good for academics?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on May 22, 2013, 02:03:40 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: dahlby on May 22, 2013, 12:38:47 PM
JP is correct. Hopefully the SCIAC will go to 4 game weekends next year (I doubt it) which would force the teams to develop a fourth (or fifth) starter for the non-conference games played during the week. CU was fortunate during D3 tourneys where they advanced to have good relief pitching they could  rely on instead of a fourth of fifth starter. Also picher injuries reduced the number of starters for CU during tourney time.
4 game series for SCIAC would help them develop that 4th starter. 1 on Friday, 2 Saturday 1 Sunday would be a good format. BUT I doubt they will make this change with so much emphasis on academics at the SCIAC schools. This would eliminate the MTWTH games for the most part

One factor that could hold them back from going to a four game weekend series would be if they thought there was more variability in the outcome of the 4th game.  When it comes to Pool C selections and regional rankings, you would be compared to other teams in the region that were able to throw their 1-2-3 more often and it could negative impact your comparisons if you picked up a couple more in-region losses than you otherwise would have.  It would be interesting to see how the pitchers are used.  Would the underdog team throw their ace in game 1 of the series or save him for a later game when he would be going up against the other team's #4 to try to "steal" a game.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on May 22, 2013, 02:06:00 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 01:25:49 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 01:09:17 PM
BUT I doubt they will make this change with so much emphasis on academics at the SCIAC schools. This would eliminate the MTWTH games for the most part

Wouldn't this be good for academics?

Correct me if I'm wrong but under the current format, teams travel on Friday, play during the weekend and return home Sunday.  Some of the SCIAC schools are close enough that I assume they just bus day of game.  Not sure if all of the fields have lights.  The ones that don't would mean the Friday game would be during the day and kids would have to miss class they otherwise wouldn't.  Also, if travel is involved, it would be pushed up to Thursday potentially causing more classes to be missed.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 22, 2013, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on May 22, 2013, 02:06:00 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 01:25:49 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 01:09:17 PM
BUT I doubt they will make this change with so much emphasis on academics at the SCIAC schools. This would eliminate the MTWTH games for the most part

Wouldn't this be good for academics?

Correct me if I'm wrong but under the current format, teams travel on Friday, play during the weekend and return home Sunday.  Some of the SCIAC schools are close enough that I assume they just bus day of game.  Not sure if all of the fields have lights.  The ones that don't would mean the Friday game would be during the day and kids would have to miss class they otherwise wouldn't.  Also, if travel is involved, it would be pushed up to Thursday potentially causing more classes to be missed.
I think they play Friday/Sat as of now and they all bus.  Often, the Friday night game is at one team's field and the Sat games are at the other team's field.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 02:33:01 PM
Why does a 4 game weekend mean you have to play Friday?

You don't need lights to play a doubleheader.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 22, 2013, 02:35:03 PM
ASC uses a similar format. A non-conference game during the week (usually on Weds.) with a 3 game conference series on the weekend. (9 inning game on Friday with 2 games on Saturday a 7 inning game  followed by a 9 inning game.  Sunday is used as a make up day if there is rain.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 22, 2013, 02:36:33 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 02:33:01 PM
Why does a 4 game weekend mean you have to play Friday?

You don't need lights to play a doubleheader.
why play 2DH when you can only play 1?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 03:03:19 PM
SCIAC teams are all within 3 hours via bus/van rides, BUT your dealing with SoCal traffic. In 2013 Friday games are played at 3:00 PM and DH on Saturdays starting at 11 AM PDT. All games are 9 innings with no scheduled Sunday games usually.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: Trinbot_2001 on May 22, 2013, 02:36:33 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 02:33:01 PM
Why does a 4 game weekend mean you have to play Friday?

You don't need lights to play a doubleheader.
why play 2DH when you can only play 1?

Why come up with your own contributions when you just ask dumb questions of mine and CONTINUE to make a point of engaging me everywhere possible?

You're like the little brother I never had...or wanted...and still don't want...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 22, 2013, 04:12:32 PM
No one likes to play Double Headers.  If they did, you would see Division 1 playing them.  You don't play them if it is not necessary.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 04:15:33 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 03:03:19 PM
SCIAC teams are all within 3 hours via bus/van rides, BUT your dealing with SoCal traffic. In 2013 Friday games are played at 3:00 PM and DH on Saturdays starting at 11 AM PDT. All games are 9 innings with no scheduled Sunday games usually.

Actually Cal Lu to Redlands still checks in at under 2 hours per Google Maps.

You could either move the Friday games to Sunday, or add a single game on Sunday and not miss any more class time. The former option would actually mean less time out of class.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 22, 2013, 04:17:23 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 03:03:19 PM
SCIAC teams are all within 3 hours via bus/van rides, BUT your dealing with SoCal traffic. In 2013 Friday games are played at 3:00 PM and DH on Saturdays starting at 11 AM PDT. All games are 9 innings with no scheduled Sunday games usually.
are there any religiously affiliated schools besides Cal Lu (how religious are they?) and could that be why they dont play on Sunday?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 04:26:55 PM
Quote from: Trinbot_2001 on May 22, 2013, 04:12:32 PM
No one likes to play Double Headers.  If they did, you would see Division 1 playing them.  You don't play them if it is not necessary.

Yeah...I'm sure TV and gate receipts have nothing to do with why D-I plays few DHs.

It's funny how when I argue something that people don't like, I have no regard for D-III...but when I have an idea that's different from D-I, D-I get thrown right in my face.

D-I is not really relevant to anything about D-III baseball. Postseason is different, regular season is different. Motivation for scheduling is different. Program priorities are different.

But since you brought it up, South Carolina did play a scheduled conference DH this year...at Missouri. So I guess you don't know much about this either. Even as you try to one up, you're still one down.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 22, 2013, 04:56:08 PM
Quote from: Trinbot_2001 on May 22, 2013, 04:17:23 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 03:03:19 PM
SCIAC teams are all within 3 hours via bus/van rides, BUT your dealing with SoCal traffic. In 2013 Friday games are played at 3:00 PM and DH on Saturdays starting at 11 AM PDT. All games are 9 innings with no scheduled Sunday games usually.
are there any religiously affiliated schools besides Cal Lu (how religious are they?) and could that be why they dont play on Sunday?

NWC plays DH on Saturday (both 9IN) and a single game Sunday for conference series.  Pacific Lutheran I'm guessing is the same affiliation-wise as Cal Lu, and they play the Sunday game.  My guess is that Cal Lu has the strongest church affiliation in the SCIAC?  Someone correct if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 22, 2013, 05:13:26 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 04:15:33 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 03:03:19 PM
SCIAC teams are all within 3 hours via bus/van rides, BUT your dealing with SoCal traffic. In 2013 Friday games are played at 3:00 PM and DH on Saturdays starting at 11 AM PDT. All games are 9 innings with no scheduled Sunday games usually.

Actually Cal Lu to Redlands still checks in at under 2 hours per Google Maps.

You could either move the Friday games to Sunday, or add a single game on Sunday and not miss any more class time. The former option would actually mean less time out of class.

At the times they are traveling, that 2 hours holds up on the way to the game. The return trip is longer on Fridays because of traffic. But still, compared to a lot of other conferences the SCIAC has it easy in regards to travel time (no overnights required at all).

I think moving a single game to Sunday would totally make sense... as it stands most guys either don't take any classes that meet on Friday during the Spring, or if they need to they might take something that meets in the morning. I think in my entire four years, we had one guy who took a Friday lab that he needed for his major. But he was a relief pitcher so he would just meet us at the field, and would only really get innings on Saturdays. Friday games are a pretty clear negative when it comes to academics, given that Sunday is open.

And leaving Sunday open to make up any games cancelled by weather isn't really necessary, for SCIAC teams anyway. It rarely happens, and most of the fields in Southern California react so poorly to rain that they aren't even really playable the next day. As a player, I did like having Sundays free to catch up on homework. But there's no reason guys can't put in extra time on Fridays. I can't think of a baseball related reason why it wouldn't work. I believe there's a rule against having organized baseball activities 7 days in a row, but that just means no practice on Monday- again more time for homework.

I'll ask around and see if I can find out why there aren't ever games scheduled on Sunday... perhaps we are missing something. Trinbot may be on to something with CLU's religious affiliation. PP, CMS, Oxy, Redlands, ULV, Cal Tech, and Whittier are very secular despite a few having religious histories. I think Chapman is too? But CLU might have a problem with regularly scheduled Sunday games...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 22, 2013, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 22, 2013, 04:56:08 PM
Quote from: Trinbot_2001 on May 22, 2013, 04:17:23 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 03:03:19 PM
SCIAC teams are all within 3 hours via bus/van rides, BUT your dealing with SoCal traffic. In 2013 Friday games are played at 3:00 PM and DH on Saturdays starting at 11 AM PDT. All games are 9 innings with no scheduled Sunday games usually.
are there any religiously affiliated schools besides Cal Lu (how religious are they?) and could that be why they dont play on Sunday?

NWC plays DH on Saturday (both 9IN) and a single game Sunday for conference series.  Pacific Lutheran I'm guessing is the same affiliation-wise as Cal Lu, and they play the Sunday game.  My guess is that Cal Lu has the strongest church affiliation in the SCIAC?  Someone correct if I'm wrong.

One would think that if the NWC can do Saturday/Sunday there's no reason SCIAC can't... The NWC would obviously have more weather-related reasons for keeping Sunday open. And Pac Lu plays Sunday games... So unless CLU has a particularly strong Lutheran aversion to Sunday games there must be something else. Or something worth changing...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on May 22, 2013, 05:28:23 PM
Chapman has no secular affiliations that would prohibit Sunday athletic events. It is my impression that the coaches favored the  3 game weekends with  additional undetermined games at the end of the conference
season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on May 22, 2013, 05:45:44 PM
The tourneys would need to be spread over more than one field if each team played a double hitter at,
for example, the national  tourney. There isn't enough time in the day to handle 8 games at one field, and I don't believe the NCAA would want to spread their tourney over more than 1 field.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 05:58:13 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 22, 2013, 05:16:19 PM
So unless CLU has a particularly strong Lutheran aversion to Sunday games there must be something else. Or something worth changing...

I don't think there's such a thing as a particularly strong Lutheran aversion to much of anything. :) The Lutherans here anyway (a strong majority) are pretty laid back for the most part.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 22, 2013, 06:09:42 PM
The Lutheran portion of CLU wouldn't be a reason, it is not a very strong part of the school.  It is there if wanted, but not forced on anyone at all.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on May 22, 2013, 06:22:01 PM
Cal Lu has previously participated in athletic contests on a Sunday.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 22, 2013, 06:54:54 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 22, 2013, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 22, 2013, 04:56:08 PM
Quote from: Trinbot_2001 on May 22, 2013, 04:17:23 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 22, 2013, 03:03:19 PM
SCIAC teams are all within 3 hours via bus/van rides, BUT your dealing with SoCal traffic. In 2013 Friday games are played at 3:00 PM and DH on Saturdays starting at 11 AM PDT. All games are 9 innings with no scheduled Sunday games usually.
are there any religiously affiliated schools besides Cal Lu (how religious are they?) and could that be why they dont play on Sunday?

NWC plays DH on Saturday (both 9IN) and a single game Sunday for conference series.  Pacific Lutheran I'm guessing is the same affiliation-wise as Cal Lu, and they play the Sunday game.  My guess is that Cal Lu has the strongest church affiliation in the SCIAC?  Someone correct if I'm wrong.

One would think that if the NWC can do Saturday/Sunday there's no reason SCIAC can't... The NWC would obviously have more weather-related reasons for keeping Sunday open. And Pac Lu plays Sunday games... So unless CLU has a particularly strong Lutheran aversion to Sunday games there must be something else. Or something worth changing...

Sat/Sun works great in the NWC because there is much more travel.  The two eastern Washington schools have about a 5-7ish hour bus trip to get out to the 7 west side schools surrounding Portland and Tacoma - and vice-versa (plus traveling over a 4,000 ft+ snowbound pass over the Cascades)  So they leave early Friday evening.

The NWC fields all seem to be constructed with outstanding drainage, because amazingly there are very few rain outs.  It really has to be miserable.  The two eastern Washington schools (Whitworth and to a little lesser degree, Whitman) deal with freezing temps and snow-related issues, but still games have a way of being played.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 22, 2013, 07:30:08 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 04:26:55 PM
Even as you try to one up, you're still one down.
once again, you prove your message board dominance. How will I be able to live with myself? Please, oh message board master-so powerful and wise in the art of message boarding that you must have two user names- let me learn from you. Teach me how to be wise in the ways of the message board. Although I could never hope to be near as wise as you.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 28, 2013, 07:15:22 PM
Linfield proves they are not only the top team in the West, but the top team in the country. What an impressive World Series they had... the one loss comes with very good pitching performances from guys who had barely sniffed the mound all year, and some great wins.

This would also seem to validate Trinity as one of the best teams in the country this year. They played Linfield better than anyone, and it would have been fun to see them included in the World Series field.

Congrats to Linfield for bring the Walnut and Bronze back out West!

And now that this season is officially over, how are they not the consensus pick to repeat next year? Their bringing back so many good players, their entire pitching staff, and the D3 pitcher of the year. And that coach of theirs ain't half bad.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 28, 2013, 09:00:32 PM
This is a validation of the entire West Region. Not only Linfield and Trinity but also UTT, Cal Lutheran, P-P and Tex Lutheran. If only some of those teams could have played in other regionals the west might have had mutiple teams in the World Series!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 03, 2014, 11:20:12 AM
OK opening up this thread for the 2014 year:

World according to *Massey:

1. Trinity
2. GFox
3. MHB
4. Linfield
5. CalLu
6. Concordia
7. TLU
8. Chapman
9. Whitman
10. PLU

*Potentially some big shifts here depending on outcome of today's games.

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cbase2014&sub=11620
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 03, 2014, 12:47:45 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 03, 2014, 11:20:12 AM
OK opening up this thread for the 2014 year:

World according to *Massey:

1. Trinity
2. GFox
3. MHB
4. Linfield
5. CalLu
6. Concordia
7. TLU
8. Chapman
9. Whitman
10. PLU

*Potentially some big shifts here depending on outcome of today's games.

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cbase2014&sub=11620
Cal Lu - Chapman Series games this week Monday/Tuesday. If Chapman wins 2 of 3 or better it would cause some major changes in Top 25 and Best in the West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 03, 2014, 01:48:14 PM
I can't see TLU as a top team right now after losing consecutive games last week to Pacific and Schreiner. Maybe PLU is a sleeper right now. Their pitching has been really good so far. Whitman needs to drop from this list after dropping 2 of 3 to Puget. Whitman's next three weekend series are against PLU, Linfield then Fox so that is certainly a tough test.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 03, 2014, 02:00:03 PM
I agree there will be some shifting particularly in the early season, but I like that there is a methodology to Massey.

TLU did not lose consecutive games they took 2 of 3 from Schreiner (one loss was 4-5) They swept Austin and then one day later lost to Pacific 2-1.

Based on their schedule and results so far they belong, but time will tell for how long.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 03, 2014, 02:19:33 PM
Yes my mistake TLU sandwiched a win over Schreiner between the pacific and Schreiner losses ...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 04, 2014, 09:34:48 AM
West World according to D3baseball.com.

1. Linfield
2. Trinity
3. Cal Lu
4. George Fox
5. Concordia
6. MHBaylor
7. UTT
9. ?

http://d3baseball.com/top25/2014/2014-week-2

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: bzzboyz on March 04, 2014, 01:18:35 PM
Can somebody please explain to me why a 4-8 team like UT Tyler keeps getting run in any type rankings talk????
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: bzzboyz on March 04, 2014, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 04, 2014, 09:34:48 AM
West World according to D3baseball.com.

1. Linfield
2. Trinity
3. Cal Lu
4. George Fox
5. Concordia
6. MHBaylor
7. UTT
9. ?

http://d3baseball.com/top25/2014/2014-week-2

I would add TLU and LeTourneau to your list a remove UTT.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 04, 2014, 01:28:00 PM
Any team without an overall winning record should be removed from any list of teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 04, 2014, 01:43:00 PM
I am a long time UTT fan. Having said that, this is the worst start in the teams 10 year history. They do not belong in the top 20 and probably not the top 50. They did play UMHB tough this last weekend and should have won 2 out of 3 but the bull pen collapsed and blew a 4 run cushion. This team has made alot of errors and has a mediocre pitching staff. The last two series they have given up on average nearly 10 runs a game. They have already lost 4 games in the confernce and cannot afford to lose many more or they will be out of any consideration for the ASC.  Apparently the recruiting class was not up to what many in the conference thought it would be. They can still turn it around but definetly should not be in the conversation of top teams in the West region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 04, 2014, 02:21:54 PM
The UTT team looked young and small to me, one year makes a huge difference in college ball, even more so in D3. Not that size is everything but when you are up against a bunch of 6-2 inch 205 lb players who have been hitting the weight room for two years it is hard to compete. I don't believe that you can expect too much from freshmen for a top 20 team unless they are very special, which means you won't have a lot of them.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 04, 2014, 03:15:51 PM
Quote from: bzzboyz on March 04, 2014, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 04, 2014, 09:34:48 AM
West World according to D3baseball.com.

1. Linfield
2. Trinity
3. Cal Lu
4. George Fox
5. Concordia
6. MHBaylor
7. UTT
9. ?

http://d3baseball.com/top25/2014/2014-week-2

I would add TLU and LeTourneau to your list a remove UTT.

That's not 108's list, it's from this week's d3baseball.com Top 25 (http://www.d3baseball.com/top25/2014/2014-week-2).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2014, 08:52:02 PM
UT-Tyler got 4 votes. I am not going to justify the votes, but someone has not given up on them completely.

That could be a single 22nd place vote.

What if that ballot only contains teams that have played more than 3 games in the season? UTT might be that 22nd best team.

Just to remind everyone, Illinois Wesleyan, the 2010 champion was 14-17 the its loss on April 29, 2010. They finished 31-21 overall and 19-19 in the regular season.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 05, 2014, 08:45:58 AM
I think we will start to see this weekend who is for real in the ASC. The top 6 teams all play each other this weekend. UMHB (7-1, 5-1) plays Sul Ross (8-5,  4-2), Concordia (9-1, 6-0) vs UT Dallas (6-4, 3-3), and LeTourneau (10-1, 5-1) vs Hardin Simmons (6-3, 4-2). I am really curious to follow LeTourneau as no one has really talked about them and they are quietly racking up wins.

I still am going to hold right now that Concordia is the top team with the next cluster of 5 all in the mix. I think CTX has the deepest staff which is why I am putting them at the top right now.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 09, 2014, 11:18:09 PM
I am guessing that Trinity will be ranked number 1 in some of the national poll's this week after all of the top Western teams at least lost 1 game over the weekend.

I don't think that Southern Maine has played enough games to move into the top spot at this point in time.

I will go through the games tomorrow and see who did what in the West, but a quick look had all of them losing at least 1 game in their series.

A big congratulations to Coach Scannell on picking up his 500th win.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 10, 2014, 01:03:13 AM
Why should Southern Maine be penalized for being in Maine? They made the finals last year and hammered a good program today. They've got as much claim to #1 as anyone.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 10, 2014, 10:43:37 AM
Here's my quick flyby overview by conference.

ASC
Le Tourneau
CTX
Pickum'
SRS
UTT
TDallas

NWC
Linfield
GF
PLU
Pickum'
Whitworth
Whitman

SCAC
TU
TLU
UofD
Pickum'
Good luck

SCIAC
CLU
Chapman
Dare I say Whittier. (sorry Jack the numbers are there at least for now...) (with a team name Poets #%&!)
Pickum'
Could be anyone (except for CalTech)

Couple of comments/questions:

Does a team like Le Tourneau (South team playing in a West conference not get any love come Regionals if they don't win conference?)

Can someone at D3baseball.com  fix the links to go to the proper years when linking to a team or conference.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 10, 2014, 10:46:17 AM
LeTourneau swept Hardin Simmons and are now 13-1 overall and 8-1 and in 1st place in the ASC. Traditionally LeTourneau has been a bottom half team in the old ASC East. Something special is occuring this year as they have taken everyone by surprise.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 10, 2014, 10:54:21 AM
Does a team like Le Tourneau (South team playing in a West conference not get any love come Regionals if they don't win conference?)

I am not sure what you mean about a South Team. LeTourneau is located in East Texas - Longview about hour drive from UT Tyler.

All Texas schools are in the West Region.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 10, 2014, 11:12:44 AM
OK my bad I thought they were in Louisiana.  Thanks for the correction.

...and yes they are the surprise team of the West!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: bzzboyz on March 10, 2014, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 10, 2014, 10:43:37 AM
Here's my quick flyby overview by conference.

ASC
Le Tourneau
CTX
Pickum'
SRS
UTT
TDallas







While everything is subjective at this point I can see no reason to pick a perennial winner like Concordia with a strong pitching staff over a team like Le Tourneau who has had a string of losing seasons. They are just learning how to win and in a must win series, I'd pick Concordia's experience any day over anybody in the ASC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 10, 2014, 12:57:37 PM
There are/were a number of teams  in the ASC that were outside of Texas. Ozarks is in Arkansas. Louisiana College obviously in Louisiana and Mississippi College in Mississippi. If any of those schools was to win the ASC they would have been in the West Regional. For example Mississippi College participated in the West Regional a couple of times in the last 5 years. They all to the best of my knowedge would be ranked in the West Region since that is the "home" of their conference. I defer to Ralph on the rules but that is my understanding.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on March 10, 2014, 01:30:58 PM
Depending on the regional sites, just because they get a pool A in the west, does not mean they will go west. If they are closer to a south regional, they will go south. D3 in the past has tried to minimize plane travel. They have surprised us with additional flights.
I believe Marietta has gone east before even though they received the pool A for the OAC.

Spence correct me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 10, 2014, 02:02:04 PM
While there is a lot of baseball to be played it is shaping up to be a 8 team race for the likely 6 slots in the West Regional.

CTX and Le Tourneau from ASC.

Linfield/GF from the NW.

CLU and Chapman from the SCIAC

TLU and Trinity from the SCAC.

Last year GF got left out, since the regional was in Texas,  and since it is in the NW this year I would guess the inside track goes to a NW team for an at large bid. A few other teams will have something to say about this, but right now IMO these are the teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 10, 2014, 02:36:34 PM
I'm not sold on LeT yet,  Massey has their SoS pegged at 179th with their best wins being 2-of-3 against UTD (7-5).   Let's see what they can do against CTX and UMHB; the Cru themselves are a surprising 9-2 with a much better SoS (23rd).     LeT has only played 3 of 14 away from home.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: ILVBB on March 10, 2014, 02:39:37 PM
Three of the four conferences have year-end tournaments with the winner getting the bid. It is fun talking about who looks good now; but the reality is you have to win your tournament to get the bid.

"Drive for show; putt for the dough."
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 10, 2014, 04:03:19 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 10, 2014, 02:02:04 PM
While there is a lot of baseball to be played it is shaping up to be a 8 team race for the likely 6 slots in the West Regional.

CTX and Le Tourneau from ASC.

Linfield/GF from the NW.

CLU and Chapman from the SCIAC

TLU and Trinity from the SCAC.

Last year GF got left out, since the regional was in Texas,  and since it is in the NW this year I would guess the inside track goes to a NW team for an at large bid. A few other teams will have something to say about this, but right now IMO these are the teams.

At this point I would really have to add PLU to the mix.  Their pitching has been just outstanding this season, and their only loss to a D3 team was a close one to Linfield.  Frosh starter Mahlum is really impressive, and their "Sunday Guy" for conference is Trevor Lubking.....probably the best lefty between the entire NWC/SCIAC.  Their defense is solid, if they can get a bit more consistent at the plate I think they are a real contender.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 10, 2014, 04:11:58 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on March 10, 2014, 04:03:19 PM

At this point I would really have to add PLU to the mix.  Their pitching has been just outstanding this season, and their only loss to a D3 team was a close one to Linfield.  Frosh starter Mahlum is really impressive, and their "Sunday Guy" for conference is Trevor Lubking.....probably the best lefty between the entire NWC/SCIAC.  Their defense is solid, if they can get a bit more consistent at the plate I think they are a real contender.

Yep I missed them. Massy has them 6th in the region.

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cbase2014&sub=11620

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 10, 2014, 05:45:14 PM
PLU definitely deserves mention as a top team. I just don't think their offense is good enough for them to win the NWC. With that being said, they can just as easily shut out Linfield/George Fox and take the league.

I still think the NWC is Linfield's to win, even with their sputtering offense (Wylie should be back in the lineup before the PLU and Fox series'). Not really sure what is going on with Fox's offense, as they only averaged 4 runs a game against the bottom two teams in the leauge.

It is a shame that at least one of these teams won't make it to regionals.

With that being said, I thought the two best teams Linfield played last year were Trinity and George Fox. And I think these are 3 of the 5 best teams in the country this year. I would be quite surprised if someone besides these three is the West Region Champion.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 10, 2014, 06:45:10 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 10, 2014, 10:43:37 AM
SCIAC
CLU
Chapman
Dare I say Whittier. (sorry Jack the numbers are there at least for now...) (with a team name Poets #%&!)
Pickum'
Could be anyone (except for CalTech)


Ok, I have top give credit for a 10-game win streak but I also look at the schedule they have played in the SCIAC.

Pomona, Claremont and Cal Tech are a combined 7-28.  I was surprised they swept Claremont and Pomona but like I said, 10 games in a row can't be ignored.  I will wait to see how they do against Redlands (who they could very well sweep) before I look at them being in the top 4.  I am curious as to what has happened since they gave up 52 runs in 4 games in AZ.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 11, 2014, 08:18:31 AM
My top teams this week 3/11/2014. 4 of these teams will be in the West Regional. The last 2 spots is up for grabs IMO.

NWC
George Fox
Linfield
Pacific Lutheran

ASC
LeTourneau
Concordia-Texas
Mary-Hardin Baylor

SCAC
Trinity
Texas Lutheran

SCIAC
Cal Lutheran
Whittier
Chapman
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 11, 2014, 08:25:45 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 10, 2014, 02:02:04 PM
While there is a lot of baseball to be played it is shaping up to be a 8 team race for the likely 6 slots in the West Regional.

CTX and Le Tourneau from ASC.

Linfield/GF from the NW.

CLU and Chapman from the SCIAC

TLU and Trinity from the SCAC.

Last year GF got left out, since the regional was in Texas,  and since it is in the NW this year I would guess the inside track goes to a NW team for an at large bid. A few other teams will have something to say about this, but right now IMO these are the teams.
No guarantee's that all 6 teams will be from the West. Pool C bids are awarded on a National and not regional basis. It has happen in the past a team outside of the West Region got a Pool C bid and was placed in the West Regional. Also one year 2 teams from the West Region made it to Appleton each winning a regional.

So teams that did not win their conference bid in the West may stay home. Having an outstanding D3 record, Regional record and strong SOS will be required in 2014 to get a Pool C bid. Just win your Pool A bid and don't be disappointed staying home. Several 30 win teams and even Co-Conference Champs have not made into the West Regional in past years.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 11, 2014, 09:29:14 AM
FWIW:

West according the D3baseball.com

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Linfield (7)   12-3   595   1
2   Trinity (Texas) (9)   15-1   588   3
3   Southern Maine (7)   2-0   562   2
4   Kean (2)   9-1   541   5
5   UW-Stevens Point   0-0   496   4
6   Webster   2-0   445   8
7   Salisbury   8-2   428   10
8   Cortland State   5-2   395   7
9   St. Thomas   6-2   369   9
10   Marietta   4-0   361   12
11   Wheaton (Mass.)   4-0   301   17
12   Cal Lutheran   9-3   296   11
13   Rowan   3-0   287   16
14   UW-Whitewater   0-0   282   13
15   Ithaca   2-2   274   6
16   Concordia-Chicago   6-2   239   14
17   George Fox   14-2   218   19
18   Johns Hopkins   4-0   203   18
19   Manchester   4-2   186   15
20   Mount Union   9-0   106   rv
21   Birmingham-Southern   11-2   96   23
22   Bridgewater (Va.)   9-3   96   20
23   Augustana   6-2   77   22
24   Case Western Reserve   7-1   73   rv
25   Washington and Jefferson   2-1   70   21

Others receiving votes: Shenandoah 64, Illinois Wesleyan 52, Hampden-Sydney 39, Piedmont 38, Concordia (Texas) 32, Endicott 28, LeTourneau 26, Millsaps 19, UW-Oshkosh 16, St. John Fisher 16, Macalester 12, Western New England 11, Rhodes 7, St. Scholastica 6, Frostburg St. 6, Mary Hardin-Baylor 6, Mary Washington 5, Ferrum 5, Buena Vista 5, Heidelberg 4, Franklin 4, Thomas More 4, Keystone 3, Baldwin Wallace 3, Wooster 3, Huntingdon 3, La Roche 2, Adrian 2, Elizabethtown 1.

According to Massy's:

Trinity
Le Tourneau
MHB
Linfield
G. Fox
PLU
Concordia
Cal Lu
TLU
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 11, 2014, 03:14:21 PM
With most West Region teams now having a fair amount of games under their belts, here's a quick scan of the top team ERA's:

PLU: 1.87
G. Fox: 1.90
Trinity: 2.22
Linfield: 2.33
LeTourneau: 2.64
CTX: 2.91
Chapman: 3.06
TLU: 3.39

It looks like Fox and Trinity have the most impressive overall combinations of team BA, OBP, SLG and ERA with Linfield trailing just a bit behind those two in offensive categories. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 11, 2014, 03:37:56 PM
Nice job Whatagame.

I looked up Cal Lu and they were:

ERA: 4.33 Batting: 0.363 Fielding: 0.960

Surprised me a bit with the high ERA.

Post season is all about pitching and solid defense with timely hits.

GF and PLU have very nice ERA's.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 11, 2014, 04:13:51 PM
George Fox put on a clinic this weekend, on the mound.

Their staff's numbers were: 29 IP, 1 Run, 37 Strikeouts. Absolutely unstoppable.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 11, 2014, 04:50:44 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on March 10, 2014, 01:30:58 PM
Depending on the regional sites, just because they get a pool A in the west, does not mean they will go west. If they are closer to a south regional, they will go south. D3 in the past has tried to minimize plane travel. They have surprised us with additional flights.
I believe Marietta has gone east before even though they received the pool A for the OAC.

Spence correct me if I am wrong.

They played a couple of regionals in PA in the 70s, but I don't think the pool system was around then and I have no idea what system was. When they hosted the championships, they never played a regional in Marietta, but most of the time it was in Ada or they went to Illinois or somewhere. Before my time, getting all that from last year's media guide.

But long story short, I don't think Marietta is a good example of what you're talking about, and I really have no idea if it's a valid statement to say that Pool As below the top 2 seeds are less likely to be moved.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 11, 2014, 05:30:07 PM
Quote from: Spence on March 11, 2014, 04:50:44 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on March 10, 2014, 01:30:58 PM
Depending on the regional sites, just because they get a pool A in the west, does not mean they will go west. If they are closer to a south regional, they will go south. D3 in the past has tried to minimize plane travel. They have surprised us with additional flights.
I believe Marietta has gone east before even though they received the pool A for the OAC.

Spence correct me if I am wrong.

They played a couple of regionals in PA in the 70s, but I don't think the pool system was around then and I have no idea what system was. When they hosted the championships, they never played a regional in Marietta, but most of the time it was in Ada or they went to Illinois or somewhere. Before my time, getting all that from last year's media guide.

But long story short, I don't think Marietta is a good example of what you're talking about, and I really have no idea if it's a valid statement to say that Pool As below the top 2 seeds are less likely to be moved.
Linfield went to a regional in the Midwest in the past in the past decade
Teams have been brought into the West Regional from outside the region in recent times shutting out teams in the West getting 6 teams in a regional. So anything can happen with teams in a regional. They are no guarantee's for where Pool A's play and who will be Pool B/C teams
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 11, 2014, 06:23:19 PM
This would be my initial assumption as well, that there's little correlation. But when I think back, I do feel like Pool B/C teams have gotten moved a little more frequently than you'd expect. Completely unscientific there.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 11, 2014, 06:47:58 PM
Coe was in the West Regional two years ago, the rest were West teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 11, 2014, 09:22:43 PM
That LeTourneau ERA's prolly going up .... (5-10) Centenary's put 12 runs on 'em after five, though I don't know how many are earned since they don't have live stats.

Edit:  Centenary 12, LeTourneau 6, final (9).    11 of the Gents runs were earned.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 11, 2014, 10:02:41 PM
The'll be dropping out of the 6 hole on Massey's.  ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 12, 2014, 01:17:50 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 11, 2014, 09:22:43 PM
That LeTourneau ERA's prolly going up .... (5-10) Centenary's put 12 runs on 'em after five, though I don't know how many are earned since they don't have live stats.

Edit:  Centenary 12, LeTourneau 6, final (9).    11 of the Gents runs were earned.
Mid week pitching is not as strong as it needs to be.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 12, 2014, 07:49:27 AM
LeTourneau has to be taken seriously with the sweeping of Hardin Simmons in my opinion. With that said, it will come down to how they perform against UMHB and CTX at this point to determine if they are for real.

UMHB's pitching is still a cause of concern for me. They can hit with anyone in the ASC, but a 4.90 ERA isnt going to cut it down the stretch. I imagine they improve as the year goes on with some young arms. Hopefully they continue to field at a conference best clip of .965. If they don't, it may get ugly fast.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 15, 2014, 04:08:02 PM
UMHB sweeps MC to move to 13-2 overall and 10-2 in conference. Big showdown this week at Trinity. That should be a good one.

LeTourneau is 3 outs away from sweeping ETBU and moving to 16-2 overall and 11-1 in conference play. Those guys just keep winning.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 16, 2014, 08:20:40 PM
Clearly the top two teams in the West are Linfield and Trinity, they are really separating themselves from the pack right now. Everyone else took a step back this weekend.

SCIAC, while it seems like while they have some good teams no one really is a standout. CLU is good but not in the Linfield/TU category.

George Fox laid a big egg this weekend.  (I am being polite) The rest of the NWest - I am not sure about until they get into the meat of their schedules. How real is Willamette? PLU took 2/3 from Whitworth, let's see how good they are later in the season.

LeTourneau has won a lot of games but who have they played? Lets see how they do against Concordia and MHB. Not convinced they are a Regional team just yet. Concordia looks competitive and so does MHB. Lets see how MHB looks against TU on Tuesday and CTX vs them the following week.  UTT - fo get a bout tit.

TLU looks solid but they better plan on winning the SCAC if they want to get to their second straight Regional, although GFox did not help themselves this weekend and we all know what their schedule looks like at the end of the season.

SCAC is all about TLU and Trinity, everyone else looks mediocre.

My 2 cents on a Sunday eve.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 17, 2014, 09:24:42 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 16, 2014, 08:20:40 PM
Clearly the top two teams in the West are Linfield and Trinity, they are really separating themselves from the pack right now. Everyone else took a step back this weekend.

SCIAC, while it seems like while they have some good teams no one really is a standout. CLU is good but not in the Linfield/TU category.

George Fox laid a big egg this weekend.  (I am being polite) The rest of the NWest - I am not sure about until they get into the meat of their schedules. How real is Willamette? PLU took 2/3 from Whitworth, let's see how good they are later in the season.

LeTourneau has won a lot of games but who have they played? Lets see how they do against Concordia and MHB. Not convinced they are a Regional team just yet. Concordia looks competitive and so does MHB. Lets see how MHB looks against TU on Tuesday and CTX vs them the following week.  UTT - fo get a bout tit.

TLU looks solid but they better plan on winning the SCAC if they want to get to their second straight Regional, although GFox did not help themselves this weekend and we all know what their schedule looks like at the end of the season.

SCAC is all about TLU and Trinity, everyone else looks mediocre.

My 2 cents on a Sunday eve.

Im worried about Tuesday's game of UMHB vs Trinity for The Cru. Historically Trinity throws their top arms in midweek regional games, and UMHB has thrown guys further down the depth chart. As evidenced by my recent posts, it is no secret I am worried about the pitching depth of UMHB. If that is the case I can see Trinity hammering UMHB, but we will see. I am still holding that UMHB's arms get better as the season goes. It should be a fun contest to see where UMHB stands at this point in the season vs one of the best in the country.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 17, 2014, 10:39:41 AM
My picks for Regional Tournament. Lots of baseball left but the picture is getting clearer. Tournament upsets can make things change. I will check back to see how far off I am in May 2013

SCIAC: Cal Lu
NWC: Linfield
SCAC: Trinity-Texas
ASC: Concordia-Texas
Pool C(2): Chapman, Whittier, Pacific Lutheran,  LeTourneau, Mary Hardin-Baylor, Texas-Lutheran
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 17, 2014, 10:52:05 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 16, 2014, 08:20:40 PM
Clearly the top two teams in the West are Linfield and Trinity, they are really separating themselves from the pack right now. Everyone else took a step back this weekend.

SCIAC, while it seems like while they have some good teams no one really is a standout. CLU is good but not in the Linfield/TU category.

George Fox laid a big egg this weekend.  (I am being polite) The rest of the NWest - I am not sure about until they get into the meat of their schedules. How real is Willamette? PLU took 2/3 from Whitworth, let's see how good they are later in the season.

LeTourneau has won a lot of games but who have they played? Lets see how they do against Concordia and MHB. Not convinced they are a Regional team just yet. Concordia looks competitive and so does MHB. Lets see how MHB looks against TU on Tuesday and CTX vs them the following week.  UTT - fo get a bout tit.

TLU looks solid but they better plan on winning the SCAC if they want to get to their second straight Regional, although GFox did not help themselves this weekend and we all know what their schedule looks like at the end of the season.

SCAC is all about TLU and Trinity, everyone else looks mediocre.

My 2 cents on a Sunday eve.

I really don't disagree with Trinity and Linfield being tabbed as the top in the West but I can't seem to get over the SOS numbers from the front page.

44. Southwestern 3-18
79. Willamette 8-6
84. PLU 10-2
92. UT Tyler 7-11
104. Linfield 12-1
108. Texas Dallas 9-6
117. Austin 1-13
125. Whitman 9-10-1
132. Pacific 5-9
143. Centenary 7-8
145. Hardin Simmons 6-9
148. Chapman 11-8
170. Whitworth 5-5
172. Cal Lutheran 12-4
# Too many to add
#230 Trinity 18-1

A few things on this....I realize these will change almost daily but it does show a little something.  You can't pick who is in your conference and thats tough when you are forced to play a team like Southwestern, Cal Tech, Claremont.....I also don't know if these numbers are in fact correct.  It shows the games against Kean, Drew and Ithaca as in-region for the SCIAC schools.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 17, 2014, 11:37:19 AM
Definitely G. Fox did not do themselves any favors this weekend.  Is Willamette for real?  I think they are a very dangerous team, their last six games are against Fox and Linfield, and they have gone 4-2.  But, is Willamette a realistic contender for the conference tile, that's a real stretch I think because of the makeup of the conference.

I took a quick look, and I thought these numbers are interesting:

NWC: Of pitchers with enough innings to qualify for the conference leader board for all games played:

11 guys have ERA below 2.0 (5 are under 1.0)
23 total guys have ERA below 3.0

SCIAC: Same criteria...

4 guys ERA under 2.0
6 total guys ERA under 3.0
(The 23rd place guy has 4.78 ERA)

SCAC:  Same criteria...

4 guys ERA under 2.0
9 total guys ERA under 3.0
(The 23rd place guy has 5.68 ERA)

The ASC does not offer sortable stats, but the 10th place guy has 2.91

Willamette is middle of the pack in NWC for team ERA at 3.55, but would lead the SCIAC in team ERA.  Heck, Lewis and Clark, who is 9th in NWC in team ERA would be in 4th place team ERA in SCIAC, just behind Cal Lu.

I don't know if any of this means much, maybe you can't really do a comparison like this?  The NWC has a fair amount of guys that can swing it, and I'm assuming is a pretty solid hitting conference relatively speaking.  But, really good teams are going to take it on the chin in conference play on occasion, like Fox did this weekend I think, because the conference looks to be the deepest in the West Region this year – so far, in terms of impact pitching.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 17, 2014, 12:19:37 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 17, 2014, 10:52:05 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 16, 2014, 08:20:40 PM
Clearly the top two teams in the West are Linfield and Trinity, they are really separating themselves from the pack right now. Everyone else took a step back this weekend.

SCIAC, while it seems like while they have some good teams no one really is a standout. CLU is good but not in the Linfield/TU category.

George Fox laid a big egg this weekend.  (I am being polite) The rest of the NWest - I am not sure about until they get into the meat of their schedules. How real is Willamette? PLU took 2/3 from Whitworth, let's see how good they are later in the season.

LeTourneau has won a lot of games but who have they played? Lets see how they do against Concordia and MHB. Not convinced they are a Regional team just yet. Concordia looks competitive and so does MHB. Lets see how MHB looks against TU on Tuesday and CTX vs them the following week.  UTT - fo get a bout tit.

TLU looks solid but they better plan on winning the SCAC if they want to get to their second straight Regional, although GFox did not help themselves this weekend and we all know what their schedule looks like at the end of the season.

SCAC is all about TLU and Trinity, everyone else looks mediocre.

My 2 cents on a Sunday eve.

I really don't disagree with Trinity and Linfield being tabbed as the top in the West but I can't seem to get over the SOS numbers from the front page.

44. Southwestern 3-18
79. Willamette 8-6
84. PLU 10-2
92. UT Tyler 7-11
104. Linfield 12-1
108. Texas Dallas 9-6
117. Austin 1-13
125. Whitman 9-10-1
132. Pacific 5-9
143. Centenary 7-8
145. Hardin Simmons 6-9
148. Chapman 11-8
170. Whitworth 5-5
172. Cal Lutheran 12-4
# Too many to add
#230 Trinity 18-1

A few things on this....I realize these will change almost daily but it does show a little something.  You can't pick who is in your conference and thats tough when you are forced to play a team like Southwestern, Cal Tech, Claremont.....I also don't know if these numbers are in fact correct.  It shows the games against Kean, Drew and Ithaca as in-region for the SCIAC schools.

SOS will have no real meaning for the 4 Pool A bids for ASC, NWC, SCAC and SCIAC teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 17, 2014, 12:33:58 PM
Jack,

I like to use Massy's as far as numbers (once enough games are played) for ranking including SoS. They also have a forecasted SoS which is interesting. Linfield is forecasted #2 and Trinity #13.

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cbase2014&sub=11620

Whatagame, the ERA numbers are interesting, but I am not sure how much they mean other than the teams in the NWest get their best competition within their conference. (playing outside is also very difficult due to travel)  I know teams like Chapman and Trinity do go out of conference to get tougher games. Some of the best games for TU are their mid week games and this year they traveled (or will) to Millsaps and Hendrix which are two very difficult places to play and normally field very competitive teams.

dp643: Trinity has so many arms this year it won't really matter who is out there, if he stumbles there will be plenty in the pen ready to come in, and in fact they may take a rotational approach to get some pitchers some work, not really sure what they will do, but UMHB will see some quality arms tomorrow.



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 17, 2014, 12:56:51 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 17, 2014, 12:33:58 PM

Whatagame, the ERA numbers are interesting, but I am not sure how much they mean other than the teams in the NWest get their best competition within their conference. (playing outside is also very difficult due to travel)  I know teams like Chapman and Trinity do go out of conference to get tougher games. Some of the best games for TU are their mid week games and this year they traveled (or will) to Millsaps and Hendrix which are two very difficult places to play and normally field very competitive teams.

Thanks, good thoughts.  Quite a few NWC teams do a fair amount of travel, I think, to make an effort to create a good schedule.  The last three years Linfield, PLU, Whitman and Fox have all traveled to the Arizona Classic, which used to feature a premier, very deep lineup of teams, but this year only three SCIAC squads showed up.  I really don't understand that, given the ease of traveling to Phoenix, the slam-dunk beautiful February weather, the outstanding condition of the diamonds and the chance to play good teams. The last two seasons the NWC as a group has nearly swept this event.  Also this year, Whitman and UPS traveled to Texas to play Hendrix, Hardin, UT Dallas (not powerhouses, I know, but OK).  Pacific came to Texas, and beat TLU.  A bunch of teams also played Schreiner, but I don't really understand why, given the better options closer to Dallas, Austin and San Antonio. Whitworth, Fox and PLU either have already made or will make trips to SCIAC.  Some of those games are against PP, which looked like better games on paper before the season started.  Alas, it is very difficult for the NWC to get anyone to travel up and play them, which is understandable due to weather concerns and distance.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 17, 2014, 01:12:16 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on March 17, 2014, 12:56:51 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 17, 2014, 12:33:58 PM

Whatagame, the ERA numbers are interesting, but I am not sure how much they mean other than the teams in the NWest get their best competition within their conference. (playing outside is also very difficult due to travel)  I know teams like Chapman and Trinity do go out of conference to get tougher games. Some of the best games for TU are their mid week games and this year they traveled (or will) to Millsaps and Hendrix which are two very difficult places to play and normally field very competitive teams.

Thanks, good thoughts.  Quite a few NWC teams do a fair amount of travel, I think, to make an effort to create a good schedule.  The last three years Linfield, PLU, Whitman and Fox have all traveled to the Arizona Classic, which used to feature a premier, very deep lineup of teams, but this year only three SCIAC squads showed up.  I really don't understand that, given the ease of traveling to Phoenix, the slam-dunk beautiful February weather, the outstanding condition of the diamonds and the chance to play good teams. The last two seasons the NWC as a group has nearly swept this event.  Also this year, Whitman and UPS traveled to Texas to play Hendrix, Hardin, UT Dallas (not powerhouses, I know, but OK).  Pacific came to Texas, and beat TLU.  A bunch of teams also played Schreiner, but I don't really understand why, given the better options closer to Dallas, Austin and San Antonio. Whitworth, Fox and PLU either have already made or will make trips to SCIAC.  Some of those games are against PP, which looked like better games on paper before the season started.  Alas, it is very difficult for the NWC to get anyone to travel up and play them, which is understandable due to weather concerns and distance.
Will NWC get 2 bids to Regional by playing better teams(aka SOS) and beating up on the SCIAC. SCIAC may only get 1 team in the Regional in 2014 IMO.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 17, 2014, 01:28:19 PM
I often wondered why Trinity did not go to Arizona, but I guess they get enough teams that will come to them that they don't want to incur the expense, plus their Winter break timing. I love what they have done with Chapman with a Home/Away, and it now looks like they are doing the same thing with Hendrix and Millsaps so they pick up quality opponents as well as keep the old rivalries from the former SCAC.   Probably the only other thing I would like to see them do is to try to pick up some Eastern or Mid-Western powerhouse teams like Kean or Marietta and get them in for a weekend series.

BTW I 100% agree with Crashes West analysis. TLU is likely a bubble team unless they take the SCAC. If a team like Linfield or Trinity gets beat in their conference tournament the whole picture gets turned upside down.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 17, 2014, 01:41:53 PM
108, just to clarify, NWC does not have conference tournament.  Season conference champion (24 conference games, balanced schedule) get the AQ bid. 

I really think PLU is in the mix for the AQ.  Mahlum & Lubking & Bishop vs. Haddeland & Thomassen & Brandon are really great pitching match ups.  If PLU can get any offense rolling....   Linfield gets Wylie back at some point, that should be huge.  I think Linfield does miss having Tim Wilson this season (duh...., a career 400+ hitter and premium defender) igniting things at the top of their lineup.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 17, 2014, 02:39:04 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on March 17, 2014, 12:56:51 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 17, 2014, 12:33:58 PM

Whatagame, the ERA numbers are interesting, but I am not sure how much they mean other than the teams in the NWest get their best competition within their conference. (playing outside is also very difficult due to travel)  I know teams like Chapman and Trinity do go out of conference to get tougher games. Some of the best games for TU are their mid week games and this year they traveled (or will) to Millsaps and Hendrix which are two very difficult places to play and normally field very competitive teams.

Thanks, good thoughts.  Quite a few NWC teams do a fair amount of travel, I think, to make an effort to create a good schedule.  The last three years Linfield, PLU, Whitman and Fox have all traveled to the Arizona Classic, which used to feature a premier, very deep lineup of teams, but this year only three SCIAC squads showed up.  I really don't understand that, given the ease of traveling to Phoenix, the slam-dunk beautiful February weather, the outstanding condition of the diamonds and the chance to play good teams. The last two seasons the NWC as a group has nearly swept this event.  Also this year, Whitman and UPS traveled to Texas to play Hendrix, Hardin, UT Dallas (not powerhouses, I know, but OK).  Pacific came to Texas, and beat TLU.  A bunch of teams also played Schreiner, but I don't really understand why, given the better options closer to Dallas, Austin and San Antonio. Whitworth, Fox and PLU either have already made or will make trips to SCIAC.  Some of those games are against PP, which looked like better games on paper before the season started.  Alas, it is very difficult for the NWC to get anyone to travel up and play them, which is understandable due to weather concerns and distance.

The early trip to AZ has been replaced with a spring break trip to Tucson for some schools.  I think it's for a few reasons- 1) A different slate of teams go to Tucson, which has games that run for almost a full month. 2) The Cal-Classic went away.  East Coast teams would come out to CA for 2 weekends full of games and some NWC teams did too.  Those teams got 4 games in each weekend with a few in the middle of the week as well.  I believe the SCIAC added more conference games which doesn't allow them to play as many East Coast teams, which changes the number of games schools play out of conference. 3) I think a few years ago there was something like 12 teams that came to AZ (4 from TX, 4 NWC and 4 SCIAC) and they all got to play each other.  I noticed that some NWC schools played each other in AZ this year, which sucks for all involved. 4) The Tucson games fall around the Spring Break times which helps with teams not missing any class.

I wish more schools would do the home/home with each other.  I like the Trinity/Chapman and it's obvious the NWC teams are willing to travel to CA, but I think Chapman is the only SCIAC school that has ever traveled north. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 17, 2014, 03:03:44 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 17, 2014, 02:39:04 PMI wish more schools would do the home/home with each other.  I like the Trinity/Chapman and it's obvious the NWC teams are willing to travel to CA, but I think Chapman is the only SCIAC school that has ever traveled north.

Speaking of... Pomona Pitzer is travelling up to Linfield this year, April 12th. It would be cool seeing some teams come up the Northwest later in the season, since the weather should be better.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 17, 2014, 03:31:35 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 17, 2014, 01:28:19 PM
I often wondered why Trinity did not go to Arizona, but I guess they get enough teams that will come to them that they don't want to incur the expense, plus their Winter break timing. I love what they have done with Chapman with a Home/Away, and it now looks like they are doing the same thing with Hendrix and Millsaps so they pick up quality opponents as well as keep the old rivalries from the former SCAC.   Probably the only other thing I would like to see them do is to try to pick up some Eastern or Mid-Western powerhouse teams like Kean or Marietta and get them in for a weekend series.

BTW I 100% agree with Crashes West analysis. TLU is likely a bubble team unless they take the SCAC. If a team like Linfield or Trinity gets beat in their conference tournament the whole picture gets turned upside down.

The only way you're getting Marietta to Texas for a series is if you pay their airfare. I don't think a Marietta team has ever flown to a game. I highly doubt you'll see another Texas spring trip for them for a long time. I don't even remember Trinity playing Marietta when they did go to Texas, though.

Maybe Trinity should come to Florida for spring break rather than going to California for a 3 game series? Could have played tons of great teams last week.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 17, 2014, 04:02:51 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on March 17, 2014, 03:03:44 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 17, 2014, 02:39:04 PMI wish more schools would do the home/home with each other.  I like the Trinity/Chapman and it's obvious the NWC teams are willing to travel to CA, but I think Chapman is the only SCIAC school that has ever traveled north.

Speaking of... Pomona Pitzer is travelling up to Linfield this year, April 12th. It would be cool seeing some teams come up the Northwest later in the season, since the weather should be better.

I didn't see that on the schedule, very cool for Pomona to do that.  It would have been an even better trip if they were looking like a regional team again this year.  Getting some games in Oregon about a mont before the regional would have been great for them.  Hopefully other SCIAC schools follow this up with some trips up there.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 17, 2014, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 17, 2014, 04:02:51 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on March 17, 2014, 03:03:44 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 17, 2014, 02:39:04 PMI wish more schools would do the home/home with each other.  I like the Trinity/Chapman and it's obvious the NWC teams are willing to travel to CA, but I think Chapman is the only SCIAC school that has ever traveled north.

Speaking of... Pomona Pitzer is travelling up to Linfield this year, April 12th. It would be cool seeing some teams come up the Northwest later in the season, since the weather should be better.

I didn't see that on the schedule, very cool for Pomona to do that.  It would have been an even better trip if they were looking like a regional team again this year.  Getting some games in Oregon about a mont before the regional would have been great for them.  Hopefully other SCIAC schools follow this up with some trips up there.
A few years back Linfield came down to play Chapman and Chapman played Linfield up there I believe outside of the regionals.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 17, 2014, 04:42:12 PM
did the criteria change this year, as far as now doesn't every game count?  No more in region v out of region---or did I just make that up
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 17, 2014, 04:54:34 PM
I believe you are correct Tigerfan.

Spence I am sure the TU team would have loved to be in Fl last week.  8-) The TU team did play a conf game last week so I don't understand the scheduling limitations. I know the coaching staff wanted to keep the Millsaps/Hendrix rivalry going as well as the tradition. They can get to both places by bus so from a cost standpoint this probably works within their budgets, plus I think they are a home/away system also. The Chapman home/away works since they only travel once every other year, so cost wise it works.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 17, 2014, 05:07:22 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 17, 2014, 04:42:12 PM
did the criteria change this year, as far as now doesn't every game count?  No more in region v out of region---or did I just make that up
Yes....

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/MANUALS_DIIIMBA_PreChampsManual_2013-14.pdf

Berths from Pool B and Pool C will be selected on a national basis, using regional selection criteria. There will
be no predetermined regional allocations for Pools B and C.

At-large selection :
To be considered during the at-large selection process (Pools B or C), an institution must play at least 70 percent of its
competition against Division III in-region opponents, unless a waiver has been approved by the Division III Championships
Committee. In-region competition consists of the following:
● All competition within an institution's defined sports region.
● All competition within an institution's geographical region (Constitution 4.13.1).
● All competition within a 200-mile radius from one institution to another.
● All conference competition

Section 2•4 Selection Criteria
Primary Criteria
The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA championships); all criteria listed will
be evaluated (not listed in priority order).
● Win-loss percentage against Division III opponents.
● Division III head-to-head competition
● Results versus common Division III opponents
● Results versus ranked Division III opponents as established by the rankings at the time of selection.
● Division III strength of schedule
● Win-loss percentage — last 25% of the season (if applicable)
Contests versus provisional and reclassifying members in their third and fourth years shall count in the primary criteria.
Provisional and reclassifying members shall remain ineligible for rankings and selection.
Weighted Scale. Once the OWP and OOWP are calculated, they are to be combined on a weighted scale (e.g., 2/3 weight
for OWP and 1/3 weight for OOWP) and this combined number becomes the strength of schedule.
seConDary Criteria
If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision, the secondary criteria will be reviewed. All the criteria
listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order). The secondary criteria introduce results against out-of-region Division III
and all other opponents including those contests versus opponents from other classifications (i.e., provisionals, NAIA, NCAA
Divisions I and II).
● Non-Division III win-loss percentage.
● Results versus common non-Division III opponents
● Non-Division III Strength of Schedule
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on March 17, 2014, 05:55:04 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 17, 2014, 10:39:41 AM
My picks for Regional Tournament. Lots of baseball left but the picture is getting clearer. Tournament upsets can make things change. I will check back to see how far off I am in May 2013

SCIAC: Cal Lu
NWC: Linfield
SCAC: Trinity-Texas
ASC: Concordia-Texas
Pool C(2): Chapman, Whittier, Pacific Lutheran,  LeTourneau, Mary Hardin-Baylor, Texas-Lutheran

Not to interrupt the discussion on selection criteria, but here's my two cents on the regional predictions at this point.

As of now, I think the NWC, SCAC, and ASC conferences are the front runners for getting 2 teams into the Regional (These predictions are based solely on if the committee doesn't fly in a team outside the West Region). The only team at this point who could afford a slip-up in the SCIAC postseason tournament and still maybe get an at-large bid would be Cal Lu. I don't think Chapman's resume will be strong enough if they don't win the conference tournament. With this in mind, I think there are 11 teams right now with a resume that gives them a shot at the postseason.

ASC-
LaTourneau
MHB
Concordia

NWC-
PLU
Linfield
George Fox

SCAC-
Trinity
TLU

SCIAC-
Chapman
Cal Lu
Whittier

The conferences with 3 teams in the mix should only have two by season's end I'm expecting. I see Whittier and LaTourneau being 2 of these teams left out while the NWC situation is a bit more hazy (I'm not ready to toss Fox out of the mix, but they certainly have dug themselves in a hole for conference play).

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 17, 2014, 07:27:50 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 17, 2014, 04:42:12 PM
did the criteria change this year, as far as now doesn't every game count?  No more in region v out of region---or did I just make that up

Yep, which means in theory it doesn't matter whether you go west or east if you're in Trinity's position.

There is the consideration of being able to put a lump on a team that you might be fighting for regional seeding (since in theory Pool C is considered on a national basis, another reason to go out of your region), but that's really the only difference now, at least as the book reads.

Birmingham Southern is playing New Paltz State, Otterbein and Wooster in Florida this week during spring break.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 17, 2014, 08:05:29 PM
NWBBFan10:

Two years ago St. Johns and Coe were flown in for the West Regional. (in Mc Minville)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 17, 2014, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 17, 2014, 08:05:29 PM
NWBBFan10:

Two years ago St. Johns and Coe were flown in for the West Regional. (in Mc Minville)
I expect at least one team in 2014 to be flown in from outside the West Regionals in McMinville this year.

I expect 2 teams from NWC, 1 from SCIAC, 1 from SCAC and 1 from ASC plus one from outside the region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 18, 2014, 08:27:36 AM
Trinity is the new #1 in the country. UMHB one spot away from cracking the top 25. A win tonight for the CRU would be huge for this young team.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 18, 2014, 08:34:50 AM
Top teams in West by D3Baseball.

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (15)   18-1   605   2
2   Linfield (9)   15-3   603   1
3   Southern Maine (1)   4-1   554   3
4   Kean   11-2   542   4
5   UW-Stevens Point   4-1   518   5
6   Webster   5-2   446   6
7   Salisbury   12-4   423   7
8   Cortland State   10-4   387   8
9   St. Thomas   6-2   386   9
10   Rowan   5-0   384   13
11   Marietta   8-3   362   10
12   Wheaton (Mass.)   7-3   304   11
13   Cal Lutheran   12-4   303   12
14   Concordia-Chicago   9-2   275   16
15   Birmingham-Southern   15-3   260   21
16   UW-Whitewater   0-0   249   14
17   Mount Union   10-1   196   20
18   Shenandoah   12-2   195   rv
19   Johns Hopkins   6-2   159   18
20   George Fox   15-5   120   17
21   Concordia (Texas)   13-2   100   rv
22   Augustana   6-2   97   23
23   Case Western Reserve   11-3   96   24
24   LeTourneau   16-2   75   rv
25   Rhodes   15-5   54   rv
Dropped out: No. 15 Ithaca, No. 19 Manchester, No. 22 Bridgewater (Va.) No. 25 Washington and Jefferson.

Others receiving votes: Mary Hardin-Baylor 50, Ithaca 47, Heidelberg 47, Endicott 30, Washington and Jefferson 28, St. John Fisher 28, Buena Vista 23, Hampden-Sydney 23, Bridgewater (Va.) 22, Millsaps 21, Wis.-Oshkosh 18, Manchester 17, Frostburg St. 12, Huntingdon 9, Anderson (Ind.) 7, Dickinson 6, St. Scholastica 6, Otterbein 5, Alvernia 4, La Roche 3, Lynchburg 3, Covenant 2, York (Pa.) 2, Farmingdale State  1, Berry 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 18, 2014, 08:52:02 AM
A little surprised TLU didn't at least receive some votes, but they did drop a 3-2 decision in walkoff fashion to Hardin-Simmons (7-9) yesterday.  That broke a seven-game Cowboys losing skein. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 18, 2014, 08:52:34 AM
According to Massy.

Trinity TX
Linfield

Stevens Pt
Wisconsin
Rowan
M Hardin-Baylor
Shenandoah
Le Tourneau
St Thomas MN
Concordia TX
Tufts
Heidelberg
St John Fisher
Birmingham So
George Fox
Concordia IL
Pac Lutheran
Endicott
Trinity CT
Bethel MN
Webster Univ
Millsaps
Mt Union
Piedmont
Hampden-Sydney
TX Lutheran
Case Western
Methodist
Cortland St
Cal Lutheran
IAC Kean
Rutgers-Camden
Buena Vista
Bowdoin
Marietta
Connecticut
Emory
UT Dallas
WI Whitewater
S Maine

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 18, 2014, 11:50:00 AM
Well I know whose rankings I'm not using for anything.

Sure does love him some West and South region. Maybe a pretty decent ordinal within those regions, but the relationship nationally is just crazy wrong, and this happens every year with both him and Boydsworld. The latter must have given up on D-III rankings because I don't see them posted anymore.

D3baseball.com poll is also skewed, but not nearly as much. Happens every year and people never seem to do better at it.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 18, 2014, 11:55:59 AM
I prefer Massy since it is  analytically based, not someone's opinion. It won't be accurate for a couple of weeks until the Northern schools get their games in. If you follow it you see those schools coming up in the rankings and the weaker West and South schools moving down.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 18, 2014, 12:51:50 PM
It usually remains West and South biased (right now it seems pretty messed up in the other regions though, even among teams that have 10-15 games played.

Like I say, this happens every year. If it was accurate, you'd see the West and South winning practically every year in Appleton. As I've said before, my thinking is that it overrates the difference between non-power D-II/NAIA and high end D-III. Perhaps the difference as the season progresses is less due to more games being played back east, but more D-III games being played in the west?

Just because something has numbers and is analytically based doesn't mean it's right. It's still subject to human error because that's what wrote the analysis routine, program, etc.

In other words, Massey's rankings are Massey's opinion, just formed by way of algorithm rather than empirical observation or analysis of raw data. They're not above criticism, especially when there's such a skew.

Eh whatever, no one gives a hang about these rankings outside this board, and it all gets worked out in the postseason. Just sort of my annual PSA on using these global computer rankings that weren't at all designed with D-III baseball in mind.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 18, 2014, 02:11:23 PM
Once the whole country has played 20-25 games there should be enough data to get an accurate assessment. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 18, 2014, 03:45:31 PM
Hasn't been that way in the past...not sure why it would be this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 18, 2014, 05:44:09 PM
108...rumor has it a couple of big bats for the CRU wont be playing tonight due to injuries. Take it easy on us please.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 18, 2014, 05:58:51 PM
The sandbagging begins  ;)

I see UMHB came in at #19 in the first ACBA poll (http://www.muhlenberg.edu/pdf/main/athletics/abcapoll_031814.pdf). 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 18, 2014, 06:33:01 PM
I will be watching on video and have no impact (thank goodness) what happens on the field.

I believe one of our position starters will also be out due to a slight run in with a catcher from SW who got in his way.  ;D

I am pretty sure that if the game is close at the end you will see a couple of pitchers who can gas it up.  I am personally hoping for a close competitive game.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 18, 2014, 06:35:24 PM
Freshman Dakota Parsons (batting .434) I believe will be out tonight. He missed last weekends series. I also believe Zack Whiddon will be out of the lineup as well, but I am not 100% on that one. Whiddon was an all region player as a freshman last year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: bzzboyz on March 18, 2014, 10:54:42 PM
UMHB and TU going to extra innings 3-3 :o
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 18, 2014, 10:55:29 PM
what a wild 9th inning. UMHB gets 2 runs to take the lead in the 9th 3-2 with 2 outs only to surrender an unearned run in the bottom of the 9th to send it to extra innings. 3-3 going to the 10th. UMHB has 4 errors that have surrendered 2 unearned runs.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 18, 2014, 11:04:17 PM
Cru wasted a 1st and 3rd and 1 out by grounding into a double play. Excellent situational pitching by Tindall.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 18, 2014, 11:17:36 PM
Great game, have to give MHB a lot of credit on a really nice showing so far!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 18, 2014, 11:21:55 PM
Gotta play better defense against a top team like Trinity, but I have been pleased thus far. Tindall and Turner look tough.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 18, 2014, 11:27:22 PM
On to the 12th ... hope none of these guys have an exam first period!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 18, 2014, 11:29:21 PM
I cant make it much longer tonight. Gotta be up early!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 18, 2014, 11:44:00 PM
Ummmmm, what just happened?  That guy was toast at home and called out, then it was changed?????
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 18, 2014, 11:45:51 PM
It looked to me like his hand may have been in there, but there is no way that umpire can overrule himself???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 18, 2014, 11:48:40 PM
Griffith looks pretty solid too. Im still stunned at that call at home plate.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on March 18, 2014, 11:54:14 PM
how about that. TU throws it all over the infield, goes does 4-3, Griffith shuts the inning down with authority and Bianchi leads off the bottom 12 with a HR.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 18, 2014, 11:56:38 PM
This has been ugly defensively for the last few innings on both sides.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 18, 2014, 11:59:11 PM
Yikes, what an awful way to drop a game to the #1 team in the land!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 19, 2014, 12:01:01 AM
Its very simple. You cant give a team like Trinity extra outs. And you can't have 1st and 3rd and bases loaded less than two outs multiple times and not score. I am still happy with the performance. This team is better than this defensively. I am impressed with Trinity's arms.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 19, 2014, 12:06:51 AM
Good game. UMHB really could have won this one. Got sloppy at the end.  Good game for UHMB and they should go away stronger because of it. TU better clean up their act.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 19, 2014, 12:09:46 AM
Nine errors between the two teams - both coaches will have plenty of 'teaching opportunities' after this one.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 19, 2014, 12:13:57 AM
I agree Ron. Yikes.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on March 19, 2014, 12:21:11 AM
Runners on both teams getting picked off 2B with no outs...that cannot happen. On the other hand, games like this can make teams hungrier and better going forward. Games like this can make teams tougher mentally in April and May.
What Griffith did with the bases loaded and one out in the 12th is huge for him, his team and how he forces his way into the planning of the coaching staff. Doesn't sound like anyone left anything on the field.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 21, 2014, 11:05:30 PM
LeT drops a 5-1 decision at home to Mississippi College tonight.

Edit:  and lose 2-1 in walkoff fashion to MC on Saturday afternoon.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 22, 2014, 08:22:42 PM
I interrupt your baseball coverage for all West Region D3 fans to cheer for the Whitman women's basketball team, currently playing for the National Championship....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 22, 2014, 08:23:23 PM
There will be a new #1 team in the country as after an easy 8-2 win in game 1, Trinity gets the error/wild pitch bug again and loses 9-8 to Dallas in ten.    A HBP and fielding error led to four unearned runs in the fifth; only four of the Crusaders' nine runs were earned.   The winning run came after a walk, a wild pitch, a passed ball, and a steal of home.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 22, 2014, 10:00:34 PM
What's up with these 7 inning games, especially on a Saturday?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 22, 2014, 10:10:29 PM
SCAC schedule has first game of a DH being a 7 inning game. They also have a run rule for all conference games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 22, 2014, 10:30:55 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 22, 2014, 10:10:29 PM
SCAC schedule has first game of a DH being a 7 inning game. They also have a run rule for all conference games.

Why? 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 22, 2014, 11:24:12 PM
Don't know. 7 inning games are stupid. Almost as much as double headers
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 22, 2014, 11:39:36 PM
The UHMB and second game today were very sloppy for Trinity. They have so much talent that the can usually overcome them but not tonight. Some poor pitching decisions also did not help their cause. It  it is good for them to play some tight games and work through their pen. Give Dallas credit for fighting back and not giving up and the same with Trinity, game ended with a great play by Dallas LF with runner at third. Both Dallas pitchers did a good job. The Dallas team is very well coached, they are young and will keep getting better, congrats to them on a nice win.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: bzzboyz on March 23, 2014, 12:00:03 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 22, 2014, 11:39:36 PM
The UHMB and second game today were very sloppy for Trinity. They have so much talent that the can usually overcome them but not tonight. Some poor pitching decisions also did not help their cause. It  it is good for them to play some tight games and work through their pen. Give Dallas credit for fighting back and not giving up and the same with Trinity, game ended with a great play by Dallas LF with runner at third. Both Dallas pitchers did a good job. The Dallas team is very well coached, they are young and will keep getting better, congrats to them on a nice win.

That Trinity loss is like two wins for TLU. Should be exciting when that series comes around if both teams hold up to expectations.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 23, 2014, 10:03:38 AM
UMHB finishes the week 2-2 (2-1 in conference) after dropping game three on Saturday to the Ozarks. My concern may be shifting from young pitching to defense. 17 errors in 4 games dropped the fielding percentage of the team this week to .948 from .962. It also cost them 2 wins. 22 errors in the last 6 games. This is not a bad defensive team, and I think they are just going through a rough patch right now. I expect them to clean it up and get back on track.

It also appears Letourneau has come back to life after being swept by Mississippi College this weekend. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 23, 2014, 02:59:32 PM

1. Trinity 20-2
2. Linfield 17-3
3. Concordia-Texas 16-2
4. Cal Lutheran 16-5
5. George Fox 17-5
6. Mary Hardin-Baylor 15-4
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 24, 2014, 12:53:47 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 22, 2014, 11:24:12 PM
Don't know. 7 inning games are stupid. Almost as much as double headers
Not every field in the SCAC is lighted.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 24, 2014, 02:20:27 AM
It also allows for shorter weekend series with Friday, Sat. games and home by Sunday. Most of the schools are academically challenging plus it prob. saves on some travel costs. Seems to work OK.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 24, 2014, 02:45:18 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 23, 2014, 02:59:32 PM

1. Trinity 20-2
2. Linfield 17-3
3. Concordia-Texas 16-2
4. Cal Lutheran 16-5
5. George Fox 17-5   ??? ??? ??? ???
6. Mary Hardin-Baylor 15-4

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 25, 2014, 01:30:50 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 24, 2014, 02:20:27 AM
It also allows for shorter weekend series with Friday, Sat. games and home by Sunday. Most of the schools are academically challenging plus it prob. saves on some travel costs. Seems to work OK.

I'm confused how this means you have to play 7 inning games. Teams do play 9 inning doubleheaders.

With how short the season has been made in D-III, I would think you'd want to get as many at bats and innings as you can out of the games you do get.

3 games a week, 7 inning games...weren't you talking about how you thought Trinity was looking tired? If so, they'd never survive a northern schedule.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2014, 07:33:37 AM
These are for conference games only, all others are 9. Rules are established by the conference. 7 innings first game, 9 the second. They play 9 on Friday night. Typical schedule has a Tuesday 9 inning game.  I have never talked to a conference administrator, but I assume that it allows for a more compact schedule including travel. Remember the distances are greater in the West and it is not unusual to have a 5-6 hour bus ride on either side of the games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 25, 2014, 08:16:55 AM
Quote from: Spence on March 25, 2014, 01:30:50 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 24, 2014, 02:20:27 AM
It also allows for shorter weekend series with Friday, Sat. games and home by Sunday. Most of the schools are academically challenging plus it prob. saves on some travel costs. Seems to work OK.

I'm confused how this means you have to play 7 inning games. Teams do play 9 inning doubleheaders.

With how short the season has been made in D-III, I would think you'd want to get as many at bats and innings as you can out of the games you do get.

3 games a week, 7 inning games...weren't you talking about how you thought Trinity was looking tired? If so, they'd never survive a northern schedule.
agree completely with this thought.  7 inning games are stupid.  In the west, with the weather, teams should play Friday, Saturday, Sunday--all 9 inning.  If you have to schedule DH, they should be 9.  That is what you are going to have to do in a tournament, might as well do it now
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 25, 2014, 08:47:31 AM
Per D3baseball this week

1. Linfield
2. Trinity-Texas
3. Cal Lutheran
4 Concordia-Texas
5. George Fox
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: bzzboyz on March 25, 2014, 09:45:32 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 25, 2014, 08:16:55 AM
Quote from: Spence on March 25, 2014, 01:30:50 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 24, 2014, 02:20:27 AM
It also allows for shorter weekend series with Friday, Sat. games and home by Sunday. Most of the schools are academically challenging plus it prob. saves on some travel costs. Seems to work OK.

I'm confused how this means you have to play 7 inning games. Teams do play 9 inning doubleheaders.

With how short the season has been made in D-III, I would think you'd want to get as many at bats and innings as you can out of the games you do get.

3 games a week, 7 inning games...weren't you talking about how you thought Trinity was looking tired? If so, they'd never survive a northern schedule.
agree completely with this thought.  7 inning games are stupid.  In the west, with the weather, teams should play Friday, Saturday, Sunday--all 9 inning.  If you have to schedule DH, they should be 9.  That is what you are going to have to do in a tournament, might as well do it now

Some teams, TLU for instance have no lights. (By the way they do now and they will have their fist night game ever on 4/4) You start a double header at noon with two nine inning games and all it takes is a couple of extra games or a long high scoring game and you're looking at finishing the following day. Especially before the daylight saving time changes. Teams don't want to pay an extra night of hotel bills to play a few more innings. I'm guessing they figured the thing to do in fairness is keep it the same throughout the conference in conference games weather or not you have light or not.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: bzzboyz on March 25, 2014, 09:52:37 AM
Also, Teams like U of Dallas don't allow away athletic activities on weekdays, so your Fri.-Sat.- Sun. idea wouldn't work either.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2014, 09:58:34 AM
Each team will play approx. 6ea 7 inning games during the season. That is 18 innings less over a approx 350 inning. (5% less), means nothing in terms of getting ready. We all sometimes forget that they are Student Athletes. The players I talked to love the extra day Sunday to get caught up academically. Really is a non issue.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 25, 2014, 10:12:59 AM
Quote from: bzzboyz on March 25, 2014, 09:52:37 AM
Also, Teams like U of Dallas don't allow away athletic activities on weekdays, so your Fri.-Sat.- Sun. idea wouldn't work either.
Dallas played mens soccer Friday nights this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on March 25, 2014, 11:24:53 AM
Quote from: Spence on March 25, 2014, 01:30:50 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 24, 2014, 02:20:27 AM
It also allows for shorter weekend series with Friday, Sat. games and home by Sunday. Most of the schools are academically challenging plus it prob. saves on some travel costs. Seems to work OK.

I'm confused how this means you have to play 7 inning games. Teams do play 9 inning doubleheaders.

With how short the season has been made in D-III, I would think you'd want to get as many at bats and innings as you can out of the games you do get.

3 games a week, 7 inning games...weren't you talking about how you thought Trinity was looking tired? If so, they'd never survive a northern schedule.

Good thing Trinity plays in the good ole South then.  ;)  Maybe all of this extra sun they get is draining.  Going to get up to 86 by Friday.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 25, 2014, 12:04:58 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2014, 07:33:37 AM
These are for conference games only, all others are 9. Rules are established by the conference. 7 innings first game, 9 the second. They play 9 on Friday night. Typical schedule has a Tuesday 9 inning game.  I have never talked to a conference administrator, but I assume that it allows for a more compact schedule including travel. Remember the distances are greater in the West and it is not unusual to have a 5-6 hour bus ride on either side of the games.

OK I had a bit of a misunderstanding then. I thought they were all 7s. Many leagues do the 7/9 thing, though some do 9/9 and I think it makes for a different competitive dynamic. The OAC just went to 9/9 this year and in the first weekend I think it made a difference in at least one game.

A 2 inning difference is what, 40 minutes or less? If you have a 5-6 hour trip starting Saturday evening, I don't really think 2 more innings matters. And if there's enough light to play 2 9s in Ohio there certainly is further south.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 25, 2014, 12:11:46 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2014, 09:58:34 AM
Each team will play approx. 6ea 7 inning games during the season. That is 18 innings less over a approx 350 inning. (5% less), means nothing in terms of getting ready. We all sometimes forget that they are Student Athletes. The players I talked to love the extra day Sunday to get caught up academically. Really is a non issue.

18 innings is a doubleheader worth of innings.

It's also 18 innings worth of late game situations, relief pitching, defensive replacements, pinch hits...things that can win or lose a ballgame in the postseason.

I don't think getting home 45 minutes later on Saturday is going to put much of a dent into study time. Beer time, maybe.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 25, 2014, 12:17:46 PM
Quote from: Spence on March 25, 2014, 12:04:58 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2014, 07:33:37 AM
These are for conference games only, all others are 9. Rules are established by the conference. 7 innings first game, 9 the second. They play 9 on Friday night. Typical schedule has a Tuesday 9 inning game.  I have never talked to a conference administrator, but I assume that it allows for a more compact schedule including travel. Remember the distances are greater in the West and it is not unusual to have a 5-6 hour bus ride on either side of the games.

OK I had a bit of a misunderstanding then. I thought they were all 7s. Many leagues do the 7/9 thing, though some do 9/9 and I think it makes for a different competitive dynamic. The OAC just went to 9/9 this year and in the first weekend I think it made a difference in at least one game.

A 2 inning difference is what, 40 minutes or less? If you have a 5-6 hour trip starting Saturday evening, I don't really think 2 more innings matters. And if there's enough light to play 2 9s in Ohio there certainly is further south.
I would love to see the SCAC go to all 9 innings.  Lights should not be a problem.  Trinity's first conference game was the weekend of daylight savings.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 25, 2014, 12:37:42 PM
NWC plays 9 inning DHs - 2 games on Sat. and 1 game Sun.  If conference play starts before Daylight Savings Time, they begin at 11:00 AM on Saturday, otherwise they start at Noon.  There was one situation this season, occurred last weekend, where the PLU/UPS game 1 went 15 innings, then game 2 was kind of a high-scoring affair, and it was suspended for darkness in the 8th.  They finished up Sunday morning.

I agree, a lot can happen in innings 8-9, and there have been a few pretty crucial conference games change hands in those two innings this season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 25, 2014, 02:24:16 PM
SCIAC 9 on Friday DH 9/9 on Saturday. Real College baseball plays 9. Does playing 7 explains why Trinity has not made it to Appleton  ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 25, 2014, 02:45:00 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 25, 2014, 02:24:16 PM
SCIAC 9 on Friday DH 9/9 on Saturday. Real College baseball plays 9. Does playing 7 explains why Trinity has not made it to Appleton  ??? ??? ??? ???
doubt it....probably has something to do with the fact that Trinity can't win that 3rd game of the tournament.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 25, 2014, 03:53:42 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 25, 2014, 02:45:00 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 25, 2014, 02:24:16 PM
SCIAC 9 on Friday DH 9/9 on Saturday. Real College baseball plays 9. Does playing 7 explains why Trinity has not made it to Appleton  ??? ??? ??? ???
doubt it....probably has something to do with the fact that Trinity can't win that 3rd game of the tournament.
Your absolutely right. Just throwing it out there. I really feel this may be the year finally. I fully expect Trinity to battle Linfield for the trip to Appleton. Linfield has the experience of having done this multiple time in the past simliar to when Chapman made so many trips to Appleton.

I still really believe Trinity has front ended their schedule with so many games and so few at the end that it can be hard to get over that last game in the regional since they are at a disadvantage against the other teams that have played many more games right before the regional tournament time.  Just my opinion after watching things close up from 2007 - 2011. I am not too close to DIII or West Coast teams anymore.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on March 25, 2014, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 25, 2014, 02:24:16 PM
SCIAC 9 on Friday DH 9/9 on Saturday. Real College baseball plays 9. Does playing 7 explains why Trinity has not made it to Appleton  ??? ??? ??? ???

Hahaha.  I think we're on to something here!  Trinity typically has a deep staff so the extra two innings would more times than not play into their favor. 

The one thing I will say about the 7 inning game is each situation's significance is somewhat magnified due to the shorter length.  It's a lot easier for either A) a dominant pitcher to get into the 7th and still have something in the reserves to finish his own game (potentially without having to go through the heart of the order for a 4th time) or B) if you have a quality reliever, getting 5 innings from your starter and handing the ball directly to your best relief arm without having to navigate through any other bullpen arms.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 25, 2014, 04:09:59 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 25, 2014, 03:53:42 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 25, 2014, 02:45:00 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 25, 2014, 02:24:16 PM
SCIAC 9 on Friday DH 9/9 on Saturday. Real College baseball plays 9. Does playing 7 explains why Trinity has not made it to Appleton  ??? ??? ??? ???
doubt it....probably has something to do with the fact that Trinity can't win that 3rd game of the tournament.
Your absolutely right. Just throwing it out there. I really feel this may be the year finally. I fully expect Trinity to battle Linfield for the trip to Appleton. Linfield has the experience of having done this multiple time in the past simliar to when Chapman made so many trips to Appleton.

I still really believe Trinity has front ended their schedule with so many games and so few at the end that it can be hard to get over that last game in the regional since they are at a disadvantage against the other teams that have played many more games right before the regional tournament time.  Just my opinion after watching things close up from 2007 - 2011. I am not too close to DIII or West Coast teams anymore.
the best thing trinity has going for then is their conference tournament was moved back a week. Now they only have 1 weekend between their tournament and the regional. Enough to get healthy, but not long enough to get rusty. Lots of assumptions, trinity has a ways to go before they should be thinking about regionals....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on March 25, 2014, 04:26:26 PM
I wouldn't sleep on Concordia in the West either.  It looks like they have a true #1 in Cameron Cox that you need to win the first game of a Regional.  They have primarily used 3 pitchers at the halfway point of their season so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out if they make a deep run come tournament time.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 25, 2014, 05:16:21 PM
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on March 25, 2014, 04:26:26 PM
I wouldn't sleep on Concordia in the West either.  It looks like they have a true #1 in Cameron Cox that you need to win the first game of a Regional.  They have primarily used 3 pitchers at the halfway point of their season so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out if they make a deep run come tournament time.
Cameron Cox  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
APP 7
W-L 5-0
ERA 1.18
IP 38.0
SO 38
OPP/BA .218
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2014, 05:52:31 PM
It is pretty tough getting through a Regional that has in it: #1, #3, #13 and #16 in the country. (assuming these teams get there)  Takes a bit of luck and a deep staff. A dominant number 1 helps also, but  mostly that gets you one game.

The TU pitching staff is as deep as I have ever seen it, and they have two months to continue to develop their pen. They have 3 guys down there that can make any game a 7 inning affair for a starter. It is hard to argue with 500+ wins but frankly TU tends to keep a starter in the game too long IMO. If I had two 90+ closer types I would march one out there in the 8th and the other in the 9th. Easy for me to say  ::)

Concordia game should be fun tonight.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 25, 2014, 08:10:28 PM
Uh....has anyone seen CTX's closer Corey Holmes stat line?

8.1IP 2 SV 0 H 12 K 0.00 ERA
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 25, 2014, 08:25:19 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2014, 05:52:31 PM
It is pretty tough getting through a Regional that has in it: #1, #3, #13 and #16 in the country. (assuming these teams get there)  Takes a bit of luck and a deep staff. A dominant number 1 helps also, but  mostly that gets you one game.

The TU pitching staff is as deep as I have ever seen it, and they have two months to continue to develop their pen. They have 3 guys down there that can make any game a 7 inning affair for a starter. It is hard to argue with 500+ wins but frankly TU tends to keep a starter in the game too long IMO. If I had two 90+ closer types I would march one out there in the 8th and the other in the 9th. Easy for me to say  ::)

Concordia game should be fun tonight.

That is amazing D3 pitching depth indeed.  I really can't think of a single NWC guy that I've seen who is a 90+ guy this year, just a couple who can hump up on a few and touch 90.  I took a glance at Trinity's stats, and asides from what looks like the four starters, the vast bulk of the staff has very few innings - possibly that becomes an issue in the postseason, where lack of experience can get magnified when called-upon in the pressure cooker.  Regardless, that sounds like an impressive staff indeed.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 25, 2014, 08:44:33 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on March 25, 2014, 08:25:19 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2014, 05:52:31 PM
It is pretty tough getting through a Regional that has in it: #1, #3, #13 and #16 in the country. (assuming these teams get there)  Takes a bit of luck and a deep staff. A dominant number 1 helps also, but  mostly that gets you one game.

The TU pitching staff is as deep as I have ever seen it, and they have two months to continue to develop their pen. They have 3 guys down there that can make any game a 7 inning affair for a starter. It is hard to argue with 500+ wins but frankly TU tends to keep a starter in the game too long IMO. If I had two 90+ closer types I would march one out there in the 8th and the other in the 9th. Easy for me to say  ::)

Concordia game should be fun tonight.

That is amazing D3 pitching depth indeed.  I really can't think of a single NWC guy that I've seen who is a 90+ guy this year, just a couple who can hump up on a few and touch 90.  I took a glance at Trinity's stats, and asides from what looks like the four starters, the vast bulk of the staff has very few innings - possibly that becomes an issue in the postseason, where lack of experience can get magnified when called-upon in the pressure cooker.  Regardless, that sounds like an impressive staff indeed.

And yet they never can win the big one, which is why I've stopped believing this hyperbole about how Trinity always has half a dozen guys that throw 90 or some such. They must have a fast gun there or something.

Their pitching actually looks less deep this year than previous, and has a higher walk ratio than last year when they had 3 main guys that threw strikes pretty consistently.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2014, 09:31:43 PM
It's not always about Velo Spence. Pitcher tonight gave up 3 runs on 1 hit. Got to put it over the dish. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 25, 2014, 09:48:14 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2014, 09:31:43 PM
It's not always about Velo Spence. Pitcher tonight gave up 3 runs on 1 hit. Got to put it over the dish.

Why are you telling me? You're the one saying that this is the best pitching staff they've ever had.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on March 25, 2014, 11:02:46 PM
Why all the butthurt towards Trinity?

Great game tonight in Austin, Trinity fought back and made it interesting in the top of the ninth.
The lefty that threw for Concordia tonight really mixed it up. Starter for Trinity caught some unlucky breaks with some passed balls.
I am sure both of these teams will see each other here in about a month or two.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 25, 2014, 11:17:42 PM
Quote from: BamColt on March 25, 2014, 11:02:46 PM
Why all the butthurt towards Trinity?

Please. We go through this every year.

We hear how awesome Trinity is and what amazing pitchers they have and every year they don't get it done once they have to play good teams.

And they didn't get it done tonight going against guys that have hardly pitched all year. Meanwhile, the best staff ever offers up a guy that throws 70 pitches in 2 2/3 innings with 1 hit allowed. I'm not even sure I would have thought that possible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 25, 2014, 11:22:51 PM
Quote from: Spence on March 25, 2014, 08:44:33 PM
I've stopped believing this hyperbole about how Trinity always has half a dozen guys that throw 90 or some such. They must have a fast gun there or something.
I was responding to your question regarding Velo. Pitcher who started tonight is routinely 91-94 not my numbers but pro scout numbers, but gave up 3 runs on 1 hit. He might throw hard but if you can't throw strikes it does not matter.

They do have a deep staff, gave up 6 hits and lost. It happens. I never said the best ever, don't know. They are good and deep, trust me there are lots of teams that would love to have this pitching staff.

They had 10 hits but could not string anything together tonight. Good game by CTX, particularly their starter who kept TU off balance. TU showed that the untouchable closer is human. Too little too late.

Both teams will likely be in the West Regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 25, 2014, 11:38:23 PM
Trust me not many teams would have wanted to have that pitching performance tonight. 7 walks, 2 hit batters, 164 total pitches in 8 innings and 3 of 4 guys being ineffective is not gonna be a winner against very many quality opponents. And from the stats this doesn't look like the first time finding the strike zone has been an issue.

CTX going for the jugular in the third inning was an interesting decision. Didn't end up mattering, but I liked the move.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SCAC_BaseballFan on March 26, 2014, 12:06:41 AM
Spence,

Have you seen Trinity play? We are not crowning them champions, but yes they have a better staff that probably 95% of D3 teams.

Hey everyone, I am new to the boards. I have recently played in the SCAC, but have moved on from my playing days. I am not affiliated with Trinity in any manner either. They earned our respect though on the field. I have lurked on this board for several years, but decided to join today.

Spence - I think just about every coach in America at the D3 level would trade their pitching staff for Trinity's staff. Not saying they are always going to produce at a high level every single outing, but they give their team a shot to win the game dang near every single game.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 26, 2014, 12:23:34 AM
Not in person. Online I have, of course.

Maybe I'll see them someday but I don't spend much time in Texas and they don't spend much time in Wisconsin.

Better than 95% would be something like 17th best or higher. Nah, don't think so right now. If you'd said 90 I might be ok with that. I don't think a ton of the top tier teams in D-III would want a pitching staff that has issues getting the ball over the plate.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SCAC_BaseballFan on March 26, 2014, 12:30:54 AM
I respect your opinion, but I disagree. You can have the Austin College pitching staff and their 87 walks. Give me the Trinity staff with 109 walks. Centenary's pitching staff has 86 walks in the same amount of games as Trinity yet has a sub .500 record.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 26, 2014, 12:33:43 AM
Quote from: SCAC_BaseballFan on March 26, 2014, 12:30:54 AM
I respect your opinion, but I disagree. You can have the Austin College pitching staff and their 87 walks. Give me the Trinity staff with 109 walks. Centenary's pitching staff has 86 walks in the same amount of games as Trinity yet has a sub .500 record.

Guessing neither of them are in the top 10% either. Not really a valid argument.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 26, 2014, 12:46:29 AM
Wow. I wasn't sure how many walks that was compared to other teams so I looked at the top 4 teams in the NWC.

Linfield - 53 walks in 21 games.
PLU - 66 walks in 20 games.
Willamette - 54 walks in 23 games.
George Fox - 50 walks in 23 games.

Basically half as many walks as Trinity (109 in 24 games)... Free passes are killer when you play good teams and it comes down to one run.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SCAC_BaseballFan on March 26, 2014, 01:47:02 AM
Like I said, not saying they are the greatest staff in America, but they have top tier talent. I think you are slighting them just a little bit and basing your opinion on their lack of WS appearances. It is obviously a trend at this point that they haven't been to Appleton, but I don't think it's fair to paint them as an average pitching staff because of that fact.

No disrespect, Spence. I enjoy constructive debates as that what boards like this are for. And I guess we will really find out in May if they are ready to rise to the occasion.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 26, 2014, 03:05:55 AM
There's no point in having a conversation with you. You consistently put words in my mouth that I never said. This is not in any way constructive.

Average in D-III is like 190th (technically that would be ordinal median, but the raw median is likely to be extremely close to the raw mean, however one endeavored to define it for a pitching staff). Right now in my personal rankings I have TU 24th...so yeah, not even close.

If you mean no disrespect, then debate against what I say and not what you want me to have said.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 26, 2014, 04:00:11 AM
Welcome SCAC baseball fan!

They actually rank 8 in the country based on ERA from the NCAA which would put them in the top 2%, but logic escapes Spence and his arrival in the West board is pretty consistent, once TU loses a game he shows up. When they are winning he is not around.

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/baseball/d3/current/team/211

I do agree that TU walk rate is too high but 25%  of those walks are from one pitcher.  You take him out and statistically they are in the mix.  Westside is correct walks in close tournament games will kill a team.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 26, 2014, 07:29:27 AM
Quote from: Spence on March 25, 2014, 11:17:42 PM
Quote from: BamColt on March 25, 2014, 11:02:46 PM
Why all the butthurt towards Trinity?

Please. We go through this every year.

We hear how awesome Trinity is and what amazing pitchers they have and every year they don't get it done once they have to play good teams.

And they didn't get it done tonight going against guys that have hardly pitched all year. Meanwhile, the best staff ever offers up a guy that throws 70 pitches in 2 2/3 innings with 1 hit allowed. I'm not even sure I would have thought that possible.

Pretty bold statement considering the lost to the eventual national champion 3-1 in the regional final (after beating the eventual national champion) just last season.

Nowhere did 108 claim this to be the best staff ever, merely (in his opinion) Trinity's deepest staff since he has been following. Two completely different statements. Talk about putting words into someone's mouth?

In regards to the "fast gun" comment, I can confirm from the team I follow had Bogese clocked at 91-94, and Tindall and Griffith 88-90. Again, as 108 pointed out, velocity isnt everything, but I seriously doubt many in D3 have that type of velocity out of 2 bullpen guys and a #4 starter.

On a side note, CTX looks to be pretty impressive as well this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 26, 2014, 08:36:41 AM
Must be getting close to April because here come Spence and all his anger towards TU.  Best advice, learning from my past mistakes, completely ignore Specen/foreheavendial4499
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on March 26, 2014, 10:34:29 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 26, 2014, 08:36:41 AM
Must be getting close to April because here come Spence and all his anger towards TU.  Best advice, learning from my past mistakes, completely ignore Specen/foreheavendial4499

The thing with Spence is his numbers are generally very accurate and telling. You may not like the delivery, but you'd be a fool to ignore the message.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on March 26, 2014, 11:17:52 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 26, 2014, 10:34:29 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 26, 2014, 08:36:41 AM
Must be getting close to April because here come Spence and all his anger towards TU.  Best advice, learning from my past mistakes, completely ignore Specen/foreheavendial4499

The thing with Spence is his numbers are generally very accurate and telling. You may not like the delivery, but you'd be a fool to ignore the message.

This thing with Spence is his delivery is worse than Nuke LaLoosh.  I keep waiting for an Annie Savoy to join the boards because it's become apparent to me that our Crash Davis unfortunately doesn't have the cure.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on March 26, 2014, 11:22:39 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 26, 2014, 10:34:29 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 26, 2014, 08:36:41 AM
Must be getting close to April because here come Spence and all his anger towards TU.  Best advice, learning from my past mistakes, completely ignore Specen/foreheavendial4499

The thing with Spence is his numbers are generally very accurate and telling. You may not like the delivery, but you'd be a fool to ignore the message.

I have to agree with Big Poppa. Spence knows his stuff. Also any team's fans who talk about how good they are and they beat this team and that team, I believe are setting themselves up for this type of questioning. Yes Trinity has a very good team. No doubt about it. The fact is they have not gotten past regionals. Would they have if D3 had a different format? Maybe. But D3 has the format they do for a reason.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on March 26, 2014, 11:25:14 AM
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on March 26, 2014, 11:17:52 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 26, 2014, 10:34:29 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 26, 2014, 08:36:41 AM
Must be getting close to April because here come Spence and all his anger towards TU.  Best advice, learning from my past mistakes, completely ignore Specen/foreheavendial4499

The thing with Spence is his numbers are generally very accurate and telling. You may not like the delivery, but you'd be a fool to ignore the message.

This thing with Spence is his delivery is worse than Nuke LaLoosh.  I keep waiting for an Annie Savoy to join the boards because it's become apparent to me that our Crash Davis unfortunately doesn't have the cure.

Still, Nuke LaLaoosh, was a big leaguer by the end of the film. Regardless of his delivery:)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 26, 2014, 11:42:25 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 26, 2014, 11:25:14 AM
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on March 26, 2014, 11:17:52 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 26, 2014, 10:34:29 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 26, 2014, 08:36:41 AM
Must be getting close to April because here come Spence and all his anger towards TU.  Best advice, learning from my past mistakes, completely ignore Specen/foreheavendial4499

The thing with Spence is his numbers are generally very accurate and telling. You may not like the delivery, but you'd be a fool to ignore the message.

This thing with Spence is his delivery is worse than Nuke LaLoosh.  I keep waiting for an Annie Savoy to join the boards because it's become apparent to me that our Crash Davis unfortunately doesn't have the cure.

Still, Nuke LaLaoosh, was a big leaguer by the end of the film. Regardless of his delivery:)

I just want to help the ball club.

I think my delivery is much improved, though. Worked out some mechanical issues, and I learned to breathe through my eyelids.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 26, 2014, 11:52:06 AM
Quote from: dp643 on March 26, 2014, 07:29:27 AM
Quote from: Spence on March 25, 2014, 11:17:42 PM
Quote from: BamColt on March 25, 2014, 11:02:46 PM
Why all the butthurt towards Trinity?

Please. We go through this every year.

We hear how awesome Trinity is and what amazing pitchers they have and every year they don't get it done once they have to play good teams.

And they didn't get it done tonight going against guys that have hardly pitched all year. Meanwhile, the best staff ever offers up a guy that throws 70 pitches in 2 2/3 innings with 1 hit allowed. I'm not even sure I would have thought that possible.

Pretty bold statement considering the lost to the eventual national champion 3-1 in the regional final (after beating the eventual national champion) just last season.

That staff had 3 guys at the top of the rotation that could throw strikes, and I don't think coincidentally, had their best ever performance.

I was actually closer to drinking the kool-aid than ever until the last 5 games or so. The way I look at it right now is if that if this was a northern team with a comparable schedule and record (say 14-2), what would I think of them? And I would say I'm still giving Trinity credit for what they did last year because I still have them ranked -- which I don't for say, Johns Hopkins, which is 12-2 against a comparable schedule and has a comparable postseason history only they've made Appleton at least a few times.

When you have so few legitimate data points, each one matters more than if you had a bunch of them...by definition. IMO the Texas schools are the hardest to make sense of because of the lack of data. But you can't use one set of criteria for them and one for everyone else.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on March 26, 2014, 11:53:12 AM

Have you seen Trinity play? We are not crowning them champions, but yes they have a better staff that probably 95% of D3 teams.

Hey everyone, I am new to the boards. I have recently played in the SCAC, but have moved on from my playing days. I am not affiliated with Trinity in any manner either. They earned our respect though on the field. I have lurked on this board for several years, but decided to join today.

Spence - I think just about every coach in America at the D3 level would trade their pitching staff for Trinity's staff. Not saying they are always going to produce at a high level every single outing, but they give their team a shot to win the game dang near every single game.



Concordia's staff is up there if not better, stats so far are pretty convincing. Cameron Cox is probably one of the best P in D3 this year, threw fairly well at Texas last season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 26, 2014, 02:17:51 PM
Point made, and valid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 26, 2014, 02:32:14 PM
Here is my take on Trinity. Last year their pitching and defense carried them through the Regional as far as they went, which was one game short of Appleton, loosing to Linfield. (which we all know) Their hitting went away in the Regional, partially because  of their easy schedule (IMO) and not facing lots of tough pitching during the season.

This year they have a very deep pitching staff as I have been saying. What they don't have is a classic ace that is going to go out and get you a win every time he takes the mound. They do however have a bunch of guys who will keep you in nearly every game with both LH and RH options. Their potential ace is Bogeese, who has professional baseball stuff, but struggles with control. If he throws strikes he is very very difficult, if not you get last night.  (He completely shut down UTT last year in the Regional BTW)

What has not been mentioned here is that they do field an offensive team that has 8 of the 9 hitters who are above 0.300, which makes if a very tough team to pitch to. They can come back at any point in time in a game so they are never really out of it. Their defense has been good and should be solid come Regionals.  They are playing a tough schedule and really went out and found the best competition they could given their location so mentally they will be ready.

They have to sort out their pitching the next 7 weeks however, in which they will need to find three solid starters for the Regionals, and they have to get their two closer types serious work so they are sharp then also. IMO, the one thing they do too much of is keep running the same pitcher out there, even if he is fatigued, with a pen like theirs why do it?  If it was me (yeah right) if I had a lead I would start running my two closers out, one for the 8th and the other for the 9th in every game between now and Regionals, it would be automatic, every game. They have 3-4 mid-long relievers and I would give a couple a spot start here and there, and if a starter does not throw strikes he is gone and the mid relievers would be in.  This sets a tone for the pitching staff, it gives your back end guys the experience they will need, and spreads out the work so the staff is fresh come May.

This team is very balanced and is probably the best overall from the last three years, but without a single player who carries the team. (except maybe Hirschberg)

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 26, 2014, 03:31:58 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 26, 2014, 11:25:14 AM
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on March 26, 2014, 11:17:52 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 26, 2014, 10:34:29 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on March 26, 2014, 08:36:41 AM
Must be getting close to April because here come Spence and all his anger towards TU.  Best advice, learning from my past mistakes, completely ignore Specen/foreheavendial4499

The thing with Spence is his numbers are generally very accurate and telling. You may not like the delivery, but you'd be a fool to ignore the message.

This thing with Spence is his delivery is worse than Nuke LaLoosh.  I keep waiting for an Annie Savoy to join the boards because it's become apparent to me that our Crash Davis unfortunately doesn't have the cure.

Still, Nuke LaLaoosh, was a big leaguer by the end of the film. Regardless of his delivery:)
awesome analogy and great example
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 26, 2014, 03:33:04 PM
Good report on Trinity.  As of right now, Linfield might appear a little more vulnerable in comparison to last season.  Their pitching has really not skipped a beat, and actually might be a bit stronger thus far this season given better overall numbers from some of the key relievers.

Offensively though, the team is down from last year, particularly in the power categories.  Wilson is graduated (.401/.456/.567 slash line last season with 4 HR and 31 SB), and right now, only one guy from the meat of the order (Truex) is close to/exceeding last year's production.  Granted, Wylie has been limited to only about 30 ABs, and when/if he's back to normal, that could certainly ignite the rest of the lineup.

Even still, they have only one D3 loss......
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 26, 2014, 07:26:28 PM
Did I get banned.....My responses are disappearing now
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on March 26, 2014, 07:30:37 PM
Quote from: Spence on March 26, 2014, 11:42:25 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 26, 2014, 11:25:14 AM


Still, Nuke LaLaoosh, was a big leaguer by the end of the film. Regardless of his delivery:)

I just want to help the ball club.

I think my delivery is much improved, though. Worked out some mechanical issues, and I learned to breathe through my eyelids.

Well done Spence... will you be changing your Avatar to Nuke or just your user name?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2014, 10:07:21 PM
Quote from: Spence on March 26, 2014, 12:23:34 AM
Not in person. Online I have, of course.

Maybe I'll see them someday but I don't spend much time in Texas and they don't spend much time in Wisconsin.

Better than 95% would be something like 17th best or higher. Nah, don't think so right now. If you'd said 90 I might be ok with that. I don't think a ton of the top tier teams in D-III would want a pitching staff that has issues getting the ball over the plate.
I am glad that  you put the top 95% in perspective.

Almost 360 D-3 teams times 5% = 18.  I like the depth of the West Region so TU is in my top 5%.  I think that they need to play tougher competition, and that can occur with games against ASC schools (which I think, top to bottom) is better balances and tougher. 

I want to see how Schreiner and TLU do this year.  Centenary seems to be a bit down, the farther they get from D-1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SCAC_BaseballFan on March 26, 2014, 10:42:01 PM
The SCAC appears to definitely be divided into tiers this year, with Trinity and TLU top tier, Centenary and Dallas middle, and Southwestern, Schreiner, and Austin College all visibly lagging behind. It does hurt Trinity in the aspect that the conference doesn't test them much (although it appears they took Dallas lightly). The ASC does have better talent, as I believe the SCAC bottom tier teams would get beat up pretty bad there also.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 26, 2014, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 26, 2014, 07:26:28 PM
Did I get banned.....My responses are disappearing now

Got ya loud and clear.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 26, 2014, 11:56:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2014, 10:07:21 PM
Quote from: Spence on March 26, 2014, 12:23:34 AM
Not in person. Online I have, of course.

Maybe I'll see them someday but I don't spend much time in Texas and they don't spend much time in Wisconsin.

Better than 95% would be something like 17th best or higher. Nah, don't think so right now. If you'd said 90 I might be ok with that. I don't think a ton of the top tier teams in D-III would want a pitching staff that has issues getting the ball over the plate.
I am glad that  you put the top 95% in perspective.

Almost 360 D-3 teams times 5% = 18.  I like the depth of the West Region so TU is in my top 5%.  I think that they need to play tougher competition, and that can occur with games against ASC schools (which I think, top to bottom) is better balances and tougher. 

I want to see how Schreiner and TLU do this year.  Centenary seems to be a bit down, the farther they get from D-1.

Still think they should play some games out of the area and region on their spring break, not just Trinity but anyone in a similar boat.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on March 27, 2014, 08:12:08 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2014, 10:07:21 PM
Quote from: Spence on March 26, 2014, 12:23:34 AM
Not in person. Online I have, of course.

Maybe I'll see them someday but I don't spend much time in Texas and they don't spend much time in Wisconsin.

Better than 95% would be something like 17th best or higher. Nah, don't think so right now. If you'd said 90 I might be ok with that. I don't think a ton of the top tier teams in D-III would want a pitching staff that has issues getting the ball over the plate.
I am glad that  you put the top 95% in perspective.

Almost 360 D-3 teams times 5% = 18.  I like the depth of the West Region so TU is in my top 5%.  I think that they need to play tougher competition, and that can occur with games against ASC schools (which I think, top to bottom) is better balances and tougher. 

I want to see how Schreiner and TLU do this year.  Centenary seems to be a bit down, the farther they get from D-1.
with the ASC moving to 33 conference games, that might have been challenging this year.  on the schedule, they are only play Concordia once instead of twice and now that TLU is part of the conference, they lost two mid week games against TLU. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on March 27, 2014, 09:28:47 PM
For those who have started to point out Concordia's success this season, I can't help but notice how much this team reminds me of last year's Linfield squad. Both teams started their seasons unranked following a disappointing year (Linfield 25-15 in 2012; CTX 22-22 in 2013). Both teams had a legitimate ace emerge on their staff (Haddeland for Linfield and Cox for CTX) and the bulk of the innings was primarily distributed to the 3 starters (68% for Linfield and 69% for CTX). The biggest difference IMO for CTX's success this year has been from their offense (team BA went from .251 last year to .324 now). Their top hitters are all returners who seem to have benefited greatly from the experience and AB's they received last year. Linfield's offense scuffled a bit in 2012 (BA .285), but you could see a noticeable difference last year from guys who received a lot of PT the previous year. It should also go without saying, but both teams are led by great managers who have used their big league experience to produce top contenders in the West region.

It will be interesting to see how CTX's season rolls along. It appears they are carrying that chip on their shoulder from having to watch the Regional last year while hosting (the same thing that Linfield experienced in 2012). This should make them a very dangerous team come May and, at this point, I will be surprised not to see them in McMinnville.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Texas Leaguer on March 27, 2014, 11:31:46 PM
Quote from: NWBaseballFan10 on March 27, 2014, 09:28:47 PM
For those who have started to point out Concordia's success this season, I can't help but notice how much this team reminds me of last year's Linfield squad. Both teams started their seasons unranked following a disappointing year (Linfield 25-15 in 2012; CTX 22-22 in 2013). Both teams had a legitimate ace emerge on their staff (Haddeland for Linfield and Cox for CTX) and the bulk of the innings was primarily distributed to the 3 starters (68% for Linfield and 69% for CTX). The biggest difference IMO for CTX's success this year has been from their offense (team BA went from .251 last year to .324 now). Their top hitters are all returners who seem to have benefited greatly from the experience and AB's they received last year. Linfield's offense scuffled a bit in 2012 (BA .285), but you could see a noticeable difference last year from guys who received a lot of PT the previous year. It should also go without saying, but both teams are led by great managers who have used their big league experience to produce top contenders in the West region.

It will be interesting to see how CTX's season rolls along. It appears they are carrying that chip on their shoulder from having to watch the Regional last year while hosting (the same thing that Linfield experienced in 2012). This should make them a very dangerous team come May and, at this point, I will be surprised not to see them in McMinnville.

Eerily similar.  Excellent analysis.  I'd love to see a Cox-Haddeland Rd 1 matchup in the West Regional to see possibly the best two arms in the West square off (and possibly for selfish reasons as well ;D) but I think those two teams will end up Being two of the top three seeds.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 28, 2014, 01:09:43 AM
Here's a thought....is PLU and George Fox playing the NWC out of a 2nd bid?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 28, 2014, 01:21:46 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 28, 2014, 01:09:43 AM
Here's a thought....is PLU and George Fox playing the NWC out of a 2nd bid?

Possibly... I still don't understand Fox's struggles (#1 team offense and #2 team pitching, but 7-5 in conference). I think if they get to the 30 win mark, they will get in. That would put them at 30-9 or so on the year, and that would have to include at least two wins over Linfield. It also helps that the Regional is in Oregon and only 15 minutes from George Fox. I really don't see PLU getting in (thanks to that .220 team BA).

It is pretty much a guarantee that the SCIAC only gets one team, so it would depend on a team from Texas receiving it over them. I can't imagine they fly an out of region team over a borderline West team again. I mean... it was pretty disappointing they flew in two teams in 2012. Especially when neither of these teams were very impressive.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on March 28, 2014, 12:11:03 PM
Wow nice stuff NW
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 28, 2014, 12:13:37 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on March 28, 2014, 01:21:46 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 28, 2014, 01:09:43 AM
Here's a thought....is PLU and George Fox playing the NWC out of a 2nd bid?

It is pretty much a guarantee that the SCIAC only gets one team, so it would depend on a team from Texas receiving it over them.

What if Cal Lu slips up and doesnt win the SCIAC tournament, do you think they get left at home?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on March 28, 2014, 12:29:44 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 28, 2014, 12:13:37 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on March 28, 2014, 01:21:46 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 28, 2014, 01:09:43 AM
Here's a thought....is PLU and George Fox playing the NWC out of a 2nd bid?

It is pretty much a guarantee that the SCIAC only gets one team, so it would depend on a team from Texas receiving it over them.

What if Cal Lu slips up and doesnt win the SCIAC tournament, do you think they get left at home?

Cal Lu is currently 17-5. 
They should win at least 10 of next 12 scheduled games leaving them 27-7 going into 4 game round robin.
With that record they will play lower end of SCIAC in the last 4 games, leaving them at 31-7. 

If they end up with 31+ victories, they should get a wild card over Fox or PLU, especially since they beat Lubking and PLU.  I'm not sure if they would get a wild card over a 2nd Texas team... depends who it is.
If they end up with 30 or less victories, and lose in the SCIAC tourney, then I don't think they would get a Wild Card.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: gregger1258 on March 30, 2014, 12:56:51 AM
Linfield just keeps on winning. Took two from University of Puget Sound today after UPS beat Pacific Lutheran twice last weekend.
PLU will be in McMinville next weekend for 3 games which should be a great series.
I do not thing PLU will win more than one game at most next weekend.
George Fox already has 5 conference losses and pretty much has to win the rest of their conference games.
Linfield sits at 13-1 in conference play so far in a very tough Northwest Conference.
It is going to be very tough to get past Linfield on their home field at regionals.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 30, 2014, 12:22:53 PM
Uh oh.....Trinity loses 2 to Hendrix yesterday.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on March 30, 2014, 03:53:04 PM
And Hendrix completes the sweep.

SAA looking pretty strong.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 30, 2014, 06:17:43 PM
Lots of folks ready to dismiss G. Fox a few weeks ago after being swept by Willamette (who I believe is now 17-11). Fox is now 20-6 and given how things currently sit in West Region, 20-6 ain't looking too shabby now
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 30, 2014, 06:58:56 PM
I have not caught up on all of the games but some pretty big shifts happening this weekend.

Trinity drops three to Hendrix, loosing 5 of the last 6. Certainly not playing like a top ten team. Looks like they were all 1 run games, which they were wining earlier in the season. Have to catch up with someone who was there.

Whittier is for real. Whitworth was a flash in the pan?

Centenary in second place in the SCAC? Big upcoming series for them with TLU...who lost 2 of 3 to Schriener?

GFox season still rests on the final two series with Linfield, who just keeps rollin' rolin' rolin'



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 30, 2014, 07:27:02 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 30, 2014, 06:58:56 PM
Whittier is for real. Whitworth was a flash in the pan?

All I can think about with Whittier is their four games against NWC teams.

L 13-1 to George Fox
L 18-5 to Whitman
L 5-4 to PLU
L 16-0 to Linfield

Anyway, Linfield's sweep sets up a huge series next weekend when they take on 2nd place PLU. If Linfield sweeps, they effectively take the conference. A win by PLU would open the door for PLU, George Fox, and Willamette.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: gregger1258 on March 30, 2014, 10:35:10 PM
I attended the Linfield - UPS game today.
Even in sketchy weather, Linfield methodically took UPS apart inning by inning with great pitching, excellent defense and timely hitting.
Last two games did not  give up a run.  They are an experienced, tough team with the best coaches in the conference - if not in the country in D3.
I honestly do not give any other team in the conference a chance of catching up to them.
Maybe Fox or PLU gets in to the regionals as a second NWC team, but Linfield keeps it rolling.... and have a big advantage at West regionals since they are hosting.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 30, 2014, 11:14:23 PM
Welcome aboard gregger1258.  Thanks for the report.  +1!   :)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: sportsfan on March 31, 2014, 09:03:09 AM
what happened to Trinity this weekend? see they lost 3 one run games.  Looks like they left a lot of runners on base all weekend.  Is that Speers and Walkers first loss ever?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 31, 2014, 09:43:56 AM
From what I heard the middle of the order bats went silent, left way too many runners in scoring position.

Speer's first since 2012, Walker not sure. TU is definitely in a funk right now. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 31, 2014, 01:31:11 PM
Took a quick look at the TU hitting stats. 3 games at Hendrix and the normal middle of the order bats were 0.143.

That is not going to get it done.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 01, 2014, 01:19:15 PM
4/1/2014

CrashDavis Top West Teams

1) Linfield
2) Cal Lutheran
3) Concordia Texas
4) Trinity Texas
5) Long list of maybe's
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 01, 2014, 04:32:41 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 01, 2014, 01:19:15 PM
4/1/2014

CrashDavis Top West Teams

1) Linfield
2) Cal Lutheran
3) Concordia Texas
4) Trinity Texas
5) Long list of maybe's

Crash:  1 year ago you had

CDD3 TOP 6 for the Regional 4-8-2013

1-Cal Lutheran 22-6-1 **** 15-1 last 16 games
2-Linfield 22-5-1         **** 2 losses in past 4 games
3-Texas-Tyler 25-8      *** Beat Centenary 2 of 3
4-Texas-Lutheran 25-8 * 11-1 in Conference Games
5-Pomona-Pitzer 22-7   * Next 3 games with Linfield
6-Trinity-Texas 26-7    ** Lost 4 games to Centenary * Lost to 6-14 Rockford  Needs to play top ASC Teams some year


Cal Lu, Linfield and Trinity are the constants.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 01, 2014, 04:36:12 PM
Crash, based on last years results... I'm going to agree with your Top 4 picks.


Last year at this time:
CDD3 TOP 6 for the Regional 4-8-2013

1-Cal Lutheran 22-6-1 **** 15-1 last 16 games
2-Linfield 22-5-1         **** 2 losses in past 4 games
3-Texas-Tyler 25-8      *** Beat Centenary 2 of 3
4-Texas-Lutheran 25-8 * 11-1 in Conference Games
5-Pomona-Pitzer 22-7   * Next 3 games with Linfield
6-Trinity-Texas 26-7    ** Lost 4 games to Centenary * Lost to 6-14 Rockford  Needs to play top ASC Teams some year


All six ended up going to the Regionals
1. Linfield
2. Cal Lu
3. Texas-Tyler
4. PP
5. Trinity (Texas)
6. Texas Lutheran
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 01, 2014, 07:05:20 PM
CTX lost one of three to LeTourneau last weekend and dropped a 2-1 decision in extras to Texas Lutheran today.   Hard to figure out what's going on here in Texas.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 02, 2014, 10:06:43 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 01, 2014, 07:05:20 PM
CTX lost one of three to LeTourneau last weekend and dropped a 2-1 decision in extras to Texas Lutheran today.   Hard to figure out what's going on here in Texas.

Global Warming.....

Actually there is pretty good balance this year, CTX and TU are clearly the best two teams, but any mid range team can beat them if they don't come to play. There is also a lot of young teams that have good coaching and they are getting better and more competitive as the season progresses. A lot is on the line the next couple of weeks so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 02, 2014, 11:20:53 AM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on April 01, 2014, 04:36:12 PM
Crash, based on last years results... I'm going to agree with your Top 4 picks.


Last year at this time:
CDD3 TOP 6 for the Regional 4-8-2013

1-Cal Lutheran 22-6-1 **** 15-1 last 16 games
2-Linfield 22-5-1         **** 2 losses in past 4 games
3-Texas-Tyler 25-8      *** Beat Centenary 2 of 3
4-Texas-Lutheran 25-8 * 11-1 in Conference Games
5-Pomona-Pitzer 22-7   * Next 3 games with Linfield
6-Trinity-Texas 26-7    ** Lost 4 games to Centenary * Lost to 6-14 Rockford  Needs to play top ASC Teams some year


All six ended up going to the Regionals
1. Linfield
2. Cal Lu
3. Texas-Tyler
4. PP
5. Trinity (Texas)
6. Texas Lutheran

I only see 3 of these teams from 2013 making the 2014 West Regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 02, 2014, 12:02:29 PM
I would agree with Crash, Massey has the West as:

1. Linfield
2. CTX
3. Trinity
4. GFox
5. CLU
6. UMHB
7. LeTo
8. Chapman
9. PLU
10. TLU

A lot is going to happen over the next couple of weeks and then the conference tournaments. The only team that appears to be a lock for the Regional is Linfield and everyone else better win their conference. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 02, 2014, 04:29:16 PM
I like the Centenary, TLU, Trinity round robin that is coming up in April in the SCAC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SCAC_BaseballFan on April 02, 2014, 04:40:56 PM
It will definitely be an interesting next few weeks in the SCAC. All 3 teams have been very inconsistent lately, yet when they play well they are good enough to beat most teams (Centenary handled Letourneau fairly easily a few weeks ago, but has lost to Schreiner and Southwestern in weekend games) (TLU beat Concordia Tuesday but lost 2 of 3 to Southwestern last weekend). Will these teams be able to put it together for a month stretch run or will we continue to see the Jekyl and Hyde performances?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 03, 2014, 09:15:33 AM
4/3/2014
I see these teams making the regionals as Pool A or Pool C bids

Linfield, CLU and Trinity-Texas.

Everyone else will be fighting to win a Pool A or Pool C bids.

Conference Tournament upsets can really cause concern in the SCIAC, SCAC and ASC for the front runners. I have seen 30 win teams stay home many times and once saw a 20-20 team end up winning the National Championship from other regions so anything is possible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 03, 2014, 11:10:43 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 03, 2014, 09:15:33 AM
4/3/2014
I see these teams making the regionals as Pool A or Pool C bids

Linfield, CLU and Trinity-Texas.

Everyone else will be fighting to win a Pool A or Pool C bids.

Conference Tournament upsets can really cause concern in the SCIAC, SCAC and ASC for the front runners. I have seen 30 win teams stay home many times and once saw a 20-20 team end up winning the National Championship from other regions so anything is possible.

Crash, I agree with those three.  And yes, It will get interesting if one or more of them lose in Conference tournament.  As it stands now, I would think Linfield would be top Pool C bid if they lose their tournament.  CLU would be 2nd Pool C bid choice and T-T would be third choice.

(Standard disclaimer:  There is still 10+ games to go, plus tournament... so my opinions are subject to change as the facts change)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 03, 2014, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on April 03, 2014, 11:10:43 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 03, 2014, 09:15:33 AM
4/3/2014
I see these teams making the regionals as Pool A or Pool C bids

Linfield, CLU and Trinity-Texas.

Everyone else will be fighting to win a Pool A or Pool C bids.

Conference Tournament upsets can really cause concern in the SCIAC, SCAC and ASC for the front runners. I have seen 30 win teams stay home many times and once saw a 20-20 team end up winning the National Championship from other regions so anything is possible.

Crash, I agree with those three.  And yes, It will get interesting if one or more of them lose in Conference tournament.  As it stands now, I would think Linfield would be top Pool C bid if they lose their tournament.  CLU would be 2nd Pool C bid choice and T-T would be third choice.

(Standard disclaimer:  There is still 10+ games to go, plus tournament... so my opinions are subject to change as the facts change)

just a FYI - the NWC doesn't have a conference tournament. That is why this weekend between Linfield (1st) and PLU (2nd) is huge for playoff implications.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 03, 2014, 12:42:25 PM
Has anyone else heard talk that the NWC will move to a conference tournament, starting next season?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on April 03, 2014, 01:58:20 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 03, 2014, 12:42:25 PM
Has anyone else heard talk that the NWC will move to a conference tournament, starting next season?

I haven't and hope it doesn't happen.  I'm in the camp of the winner of the conference's auto-bid should be the team that was the best over the course of an entire conference season of play.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SCAC_BaseballFan on April 03, 2014, 02:13:09 PM
This would have made the SCAC interesting last year, as Centenary won the regular season, but Trinity took the conference tournament.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 03, 2014, 02:14:46 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 03, 2014, 12:42:25 PM
Has anyone else heard talk that the NWC will move to a conference tournament, starting next season?

This is true from what I heard. I don't know what the format is though. I am guessing it would either be four teams similar to what the NWC softball tourney is (I think?), or they could do a 6 team tourney with the top two seeds getting a bye.

I don't really like the idea of a tournament, to be honest. It rewards the team that gets hot at the end versus a team that has been solid all year long.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on April 03, 2014, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 03, 2014, 02:14:46 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 03, 2014, 12:42:25 PM
Has anyone else heard talk that the NWC will move to a conference tournament, starting next season?

This is true from what I heard. I don't know what the format is though. I am guessing it would either be four teams similar to what the NWC softball tourney is (I think?), or they could do a 6 team tourney with the top two seeds getting a bye.

I don't really like the idea of a tournament, to be honest. It rewards the team that gets hot at the end versus a team that has been solid all year long.

This is correct. The NWC is moving to a conference tournament next season, but I don't know the format either. I know folks from Linfield and George Fox aren't too excited about this change. Now the rest of the teams in the NWC have something to look forward to despite their middle-of-the-road performances in the conference regular season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on April 03, 2014, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: NWBaseballFan10 on April 03, 2014, 03:10:47 PM
Now the rest of the teams in the NWC have something to look forward to despite their middle-of-the-road performances in the conference regular season.

That sums it up perfectly.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 03, 2014, 03:39:20 PM
I'm betwixt and between on the tournament for NWC, I suppose.  What I don't like is a straight-up top 4 team format (like the SCIAC tournament, I believe), because essentially other than seeding, the 4th place team enters a short format tournament on equal footing to the #1 seed.  #1 ace vs. #4 ace.

I'd like to make it much more difficult for a lower seed to win, so I would prefer a six team format, with seeds 3-6 each playing a play-in game to decide who will join seeds 1-2 in the 4 team double-elim tourney.  That way, a 3-6 seed has to play that extra game, at a minimum.

I can't really agree with all of this statement, though:

    "Now the rest of the teams in the NWC have something to look forward to despite their middle-of-the-road performances in the conference regular season."

Right now, do you think Willamette is a middle-of-the-road team?  George Fox by the way, is currently in 4th place in the conference, I'll bet Coach Hunter wouldn't mind there being a tournament this year.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 03, 2014, 06:49:21 PM
I love tournaments because they add so much interest and make for some very competitive intense games, as a fan they can't be beat. I really like your idea Whatagame for a 6 team format with an extra game for the lower seeds to give the extra advantage to the top 2 seeds.

I still don't get the SCIAC round robin thing they do at the end of the season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 03, 2014, 07:16:12 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 03, 2014, 06:49:21 PM

I still don't get the SCIAC round robin thing they do at the end of the season.

I could be wrong but I think it has to do with the fact that Chapman joined the SCIAC after the conference went to 4 games vs each school.  If they continued to do that it makes 32 conference games and very little chance to play other schools that travel.  That probably doesn't answer it completely but the extra 4 round robin games bring the total to 28 SCIAC games (while sticking to a 3-game series) instead of 32.  I don't love it but I don't mind it either.  It gives the 3-6 teams a little extra time to either get into the conference tourney or lose their spot.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 03, 2014, 11:32:24 PM
I think a tournament is a good idea for the NWC if it's done the right way, because you get more games against quality opponents to possibly get a Pool C berth. And it just means kids that give up so much to play baseball get a few more games.

I'm rarely against more baseball, especially for guys that are playing purely because they love the game enough to want to play.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 04, 2014, 08:29:55 AM
Quote from: SCAC_BaseballFan on April 03, 2014, 02:13:09 PM
This would have made the SCAC interesting last year, as Centenary won the regular season, but Trinity took the conference tournament.
it wouldn't have mattered.  Centenary was inelgible for NCAA tourney because of the probation period of moving down to D3.  Trinity would have received the Auto bid anyways, being the next highest SCAC team.  Same for this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SCAC_BaseballFan on April 04, 2014, 09:25:21 AM
I realize that, I was just giving a view of how a team can lose 4 of 5 to a team (like Trinity did to Centenary) in the regular season, but if they win that 1 weekend it erases the regular season grind and meaning.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 04, 2014, 09:44:40 AM
Quote from: SCAC_BaseballFan on April 04, 2014, 09:25:21 AM
I realize that, I was just giving a view of how a team can lose 4 of 5 to a team (like Trinity did to Centenary) in the regular season, but if they win that 1 weekend it erases the regular season grind and meaning.
fair enough.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on April 04, 2014, 12:21:05 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 03, 2014, 03:39:20 PM

Right now, do you think Willamette is a middle-of-the-road team?  George Fox by the way, is currently in 4th place in the conference, I'll bet Coach Hunter wouldn't mind there being a tournament this year.

I certainly wouldn't say Willamette is a top tier team. I think Willamette has a strong ball club, but they've already lost their series against PLU and Linfield. I'd call that a middle-of-the-road performance. I'd describe Fox's success in league this year the same way. Maybe the term "middle-of-the-road" is a bit too harsh, but personally I just don't feel like they have put together a postseason-worthy resume (same with Fox). However, there is still plenty of games to be played for both to change that (both teams aren't completely out of the running for the Pool A bid either).

I understand the arguments for a conference tournament, but as I said my personal preference is towards rewarding the teams whose overall body of work in the regular season was the best (as opposed to rewarding teams that get hot at the right time and who snag a few games in the conference tourney). If anything, I at least hope the NWC doesn't use the SCIAC's conference tournament format.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 04, 2014, 02:18:22 PM
drum roll.......I agree 100% with Spence.  :o
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on April 04, 2014, 03:07:53 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 04, 2014, 02:18:22 PM
drum roll.......I agree 100% with Spence.  :o

Time to see the doctor about that brain tumor.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 04, 2014, 06:06:00 PM
Quote from: NWBaseballFan10 on April 04, 2014, 12:21:05 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 03, 2014, 03:39:20 PM

Right now, do you think Willamette is a middle-of-the-road team?  George Fox by the way, is currently in 4th place in the conference, I'll bet Coach Hunter wouldn't mind there being a tournament this year.

I certainly wouldn't say Willamette is a top tier team. I think Willamette has a strong ball club, but they've already lost their series against PLU and Linfield. I'd call that a middle-of-the-road performance. I'd describe Fox's success in league this year the same way. Maybe the term "middle-of-the-road" is a bit too harsh, but personally I just don't feel like they have put together a postseason-worthy resume (same with Fox). However, there is still plenty of games to be played for both to change that (both teams aren't completely out of the running for the Pool A bid either).

I understand the arguments for a conference tournament, but as I said my personal preference is towards rewarding the teams whose overall body of work in the regular season was the best (as opposed to rewarding teams that get hot at the right time and who snag a few games in the conference tourney). If anything, I at least hope the NWC doesn't use the SCIAC's conference tournament format.

Yep, as I stated in my earlier post, that format gives no true advantage to the #1 seed who performed all year.  Just think, in that format, you could have Linfield as #1 seed facing let's say, PLU, as the 4 seed so it would be Haddeland vs. Lubking.......

It is the same reason that I think the so called "throw-away game" in the D3 World Series is a really dumb idea.  Why penalize the team that goes through the early rounds of the tournament undefeated by making them play a game just to even the game count going into the finals?  They don't even do this in the Little League World Series.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 05, 2014, 03:31:33 AM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 04, 2014, 03:07:53 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 04, 2014, 02:18:22 PM
drum roll.......I agree 100% with Spence.  :o

Time to see the doctor about that brain tumor.

Maybe I'm the one with the tumor. :)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 05, 2014, 07:21:08 PM
Trinity (TX) takes two from Schreiner, 11-0 and 9-4.
CTX drops 2 of 3 to Mississippi College, winning Friday 2-1, losing today 1-2 and 0-2.
TLU sweeps Centenary, 2-0, 3-0, 13-3 (7). 

Big series between Trinity and TLU in SA next weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2014, 12:22:19 AM
Quote from: Spence on April 05, 2014, 03:31:33 AM
Maybe I'm the one with the tumor. :)

Now it all  makes sense.  ::)

seriously we don't want anyone with this malady

SCAC conference tournament home field will likely be decided next weekend with TLU vs Trinity.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on April 06, 2014, 09:54:02 AM
UMHB gets swept at home vs UT Dallas. Didnt play well the first two games at all from what I can tell. CTX losing 2 of 3 just adds to how weird Texas D3 baseball has been this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: sportsfan on April 06, 2014, 08:52:54 PM
good matchup next weekend with TLU and TU....great pitching match ups ...believe there is bad blood between the teams
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 09:02:47 AM
1. Linfield(24-3)
2. Trinity(25-6)
3. Cal Lutheran(22-6)
4. Concordia-Texas(20-6)
5 & 6 ....Choose from a long list of teams

I pick Linfield to win the West Regional AGAIN ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2014, 09:49:09 AM
Unfortunately I would have to agree with Crash. Linfield is going to be very tough at home. It just takes a team to get hot at the end of the season and a bit of luck to change that however, re Whitworth. Lot's of good baseball to be played before this however.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 07, 2014, 10:24:46 AM
It may be time to throw George Fox's name back in the ring. They look to have right the ship after beating Puget Sound 9-0, 9-0, and 8-0 this weekend. They sit at 23-6 right now (13-5 in the NWC). They have eight DIII games left in the season, and five of them are against Linfield. They definitely have a chance to make a statement in the coming week. I would probably sandwich them between Trinity and Cal Lu at this point.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2014, 10:32:58 AM
I said that GF season was going to come down to their 5 game set against Linfield, this is a make or break two weeks for them, which I am sure they are quite aware after last year. I wish them luck.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
FWIW: West Top 10 according to Massey's.

1. Linfield
2. CTX
3. GFox
4. Trinity
5. CLU
6. Chapman
7. UMHB
8. PLU
9. Le Tu
10. TLU
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 07, 2014, 01:10:52 PM
I think it's really important that G. Fox sweep Pac Lu next weekend.  The way Fox has it rolling right now, they have a great shot, but need to get past Lubking, who I'm sure will be dialing up the nasty factor after dropping a little string of tough decisions.

Let's say Fox sweeps, taking them to 26-6.  What do we think they need to do against Linfield, most importantly in the 3-game conference series, and lastly in the two final non-conference meetings to lock-up a bid?

Also, what could be considered is the fact that in the SCIAC thread I have also foreseen that Chapman takes the auto-bid over CLU in the tournament.....

Myself, I think if G. Fox sweeps PLU, then they need to win at an absolute minimum one of the conference games, and keep the other two real close. Last year, Fox was swept by Linfield, and all the games were nail-biters, if I recall, but they were losses nonetheless.

Then, they'd need to split the 2 non-conference for a 2-3 record against Linfield. (the upcoming two games against NAIA Corban are meaningless, which begs the question why play five of your 39 games vs. non-D3 competition?)

I'd like to see 2 NWC and 2 SCIAC teams get a bid.  I think it's reasonable to see this scenario.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 08:18:31 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 07, 2014, 10:24:46 AM
It may be time to throw George Fox's name back in the ring. They look to have right the ship after beating Puget Sound 9-0, 9-0, and 8-0 this weekend. They sit at 23-6 right now (13-5 in the NWC). They have eight DIII games left in the season, and five of them are against Linfield. They definitely have a chance to make a statement in the coming week. I would probably sandwich them between Trinity and Cal Lu at this point.
Not sure GF has a chance. A few times 30 win teams did not get a Pool C bid out of NWC conference. If there is an upset like Trinity not winning their SCAC conference tourney or Cal Lu losing the SCIAC tournament expect them to get the Pool C bids. Also CTX would also looks like a possible Pool C bid if they lose the ASC tournament.  IF GF wins all of its remaining games except with only 1 loss to Linfield they may get in
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 08:26:28 PM
CDD3 Regional Predictions

ASC - Concordia-TX
SCAC - Trinity- TX
SCIAC - Cal Lutheran, Chapman or Whittier
NWC - Linfield and George Fox
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 07, 2014, 09:29:17 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 08:18:31 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 07, 2014, 10:24:46 AM
It may be time to throw George Fox's name back in the ring. They look to have right the ship after beating Puget Sound 9-0, 9-0, and 8-0 this weekend. They sit at 23-6 right now (13-5 in the NWC). They have eight DIII games left in the season, and five of them are against Linfield. They definitely have a chance to make a statement in the coming week. I would probably sandwich them between Trinity and Cal Lu at this point.
Not sure GF has a chance. A few times 30 win teams did not get a Pool C bid out of NWC conference. If there is an upset like Trinity not winning their SCAC conference tourney or Cal Lu losing the SCIAC tournament expect them to get the Pool C bids. Also CTX would also looks like a possible Pool C bid if they lose the ASC tournament.  IF GF wins all of its remaining games except with only 1 loss to Linfield they may get in
I would agree most years, but I think it will be hard to ignore how much better the NWC is than the other leagues this year. I think it helps that George Fox went 6-1 against the SCIAC this year too. And the regional is in Oregon. I feel like if it came down to it, with two even teams, they would take a team 15 minutes away from the Regional instead of flying in a team.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 07, 2014, 09:29:17 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 08:18:31 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 07, 2014, 10:24:46 AM
It may be time to throw George Fox's name back in the ring. They look to have right the ship after beating Puget Sound 9-0, 9-0, and 8-0 this weekend. They sit at 23-6 right now (13-5 in the NWC). They have eight DIII games left in the season, and five of them are against Linfield. They definitely have a chance to make a statement in the coming week. I would probably sandwich them between Trinity and Cal Lu at this point.
Not sure GF has a chance. A few times 30 win teams did not get a Pool C bid out of NWC conference. If there is an upset like Trinity not winning their SCAC conference tourney or Cal Lu losing the SCIAC tournament expect them to get the Pool C bids. Also CTX would also looks like a possible Pool C bid if they lose the ASC tournament.  IF GF wins all of its remaining games except with only 1 loss to Linfield they may get in
I would agree most years, but I think it will be hard to ignore how much better the NWC is than the other leagues this year. I think it helps that George Fox went 6-1 against the SCIAC this year too. And the regional is in Oregon. I feel like if it came down to it, with two even teams, they would take a team 15 minutes away from the Regional instead of flying in a team.
A few years back NCAA chose to fly in 2 teams not even in the West Region so travel costs are not always a consideration when it comes to the West Region.  NWC rarely gets 2 teams in a regional. GF may deserve it just like PLU did a few years back but did not get a Pool C bid despite be a Co-NWC champion and 30 win season but lost in a 1 game playoff for Pool A bid and did not get the Pool C bid. So GF needs to win out to get Pool C bid IMO.

This record was not good enough for a Pool C bid in 2009. http://golutes.com/sports/bsb/2008-09/schedule
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 07, 2014, 10:17:21 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 07, 2014, 09:29:17 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 08:18:31 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 07, 2014, 10:24:46 AM
It may be time to throw George Fox's name back in the ring. They look to have right the ship after beating Puget Sound 9-0, 9-0, and 8-0 this weekend. They sit at 23-6 right now (13-5 in the NWC). They have eight DIII games left in the season, and five of them are against Linfield. They definitely have a chance to make a statement in the coming week. I would probably sandwich them between Trinity and Cal Lu at this point.
Not sure GF has a chance. A few times 30 win teams did not get a Pool C bid out of NWC conference. If there is an upset like Trinity not winning their SCAC conference tourney or Cal Lu losing the SCIAC tournament expect them to get the Pool C bids. Also CTX would also looks like a possible Pool C bid if they lose the ASC tournament.  IF GF wins all of its remaining games except with only 1 loss to Linfield they may get in
I would agree most years, but I think it will be hard to ignore how much better the NWC is than the other leagues this year. I think it helps that George Fox went 6-1 against the SCIAC this year too. And the regional is in Oregon. I feel like if it came down to it, with two even teams, they would take a team 15 minutes away from the Regional instead of flying in a team.
A few years back NCAA chose to fly in 2 teams not even in the West Region so travel costs are not always a consideration when it comes to the West Region.  NWC rarely gets 2 teams in a regional. GF may deserve it just like PLU did a few years back but did not get a Pool C bid despite be a Co-NWC champion and 30 win season but lost in a 1 game playoff for Pool A bid and did not get the Pool C bid. So GF needs to win out to get Pool C bid IMO.

This record was not good enough for a Pool C bid in 2009. http://golutes.com/sports/bsb/2008-09/schedule

I agree with your points, but I think this year will be different than past years. Call me an optimist :P I just think the NCAA will be hesitant to fly a non-West Region team this year, when the two they flew to McMinnville put up a poor showing versus the West two years ago... And that 2009 PLU I think strengthens this years' Fox team since PLU had a losing record vs SCIAC teams that season. I think they could go 31-8 and still get in (8-2 to end the year). They need to sweep PLU and put up a strong showing against Linfield though.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 07, 2014, 10:18:32 PM
Just remember:  "logic" and "NCAA" are not often used in the same sentence, unless "lacking" is also thrown in.   ;D
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 10:25:43 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 07, 2014, 10:17:21 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 07, 2014, 09:29:17 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 08:18:31 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 07, 2014, 10:24:46 AM
It may be time to throw George Fox's name back in the ring. They look to have right the ship after beating Puget Sound 9-0, 9-0, and 8-0 this weekend. They sit at 23-6 right now (13-5 in the NWC). They have eight DIII games left in the season, and five of them are against Linfield. They definitely have a chance to make a statement in the coming week. I would probably sandwich them between Trinity and Cal Lu at this point.
Not sure GF has a chance. A few times 30 win teams did not get a Pool C bid out of NWC conference. If there is an upset like Trinity not winning their SCAC conference tourney or Cal Lu losing the SCIAC tournament expect them to get the Pool C bids. Also CTX would also looks like a possible Pool C bid if they lose the ASC tournament.  IF GF wins all of its remaining games except with only 1 loss to Linfield they may get in
I would agree most years, but I think it will be hard to ignore how much better the NWC is than the other leagues this year. I think it helps that George Fox went 6-1 against the SCIAC this year too. And the regional is in Oregon. I feel like if it came down to it, with two even teams, they would take a team 15 minutes away from the Regional instead of flying in a team.
A few years back NCAA chose to fly in 2 teams not even in the West Region so travel costs are not always a consideration when it comes to the West Region.  NWC rarely gets 2 teams in a regional. GF may deserve it just like PLU did a few years back but did not get a Pool C bid despite be a Co-NWC champion and 30 win season but lost in a 1 game playoff for Pool A bid and did not get the Pool C bid. So GF needs to win out to get Pool C bid IMO.

This record was not good enough for a Pool C bid in 2009. http://golutes.com/sports/bsb/2008-09/schedule

I agree with your points, but I think this year will be different than past years. Call me an optimist :P I just think the NCAA will be hesitant to fly a non-West Region team this year, when the two they flew to McMinnville put up a poor showing versus the West two years ago... And that 2009 PLU I think strengthens this years' Fox team since PLU had a losing record vs SCIAC teams that season. I think they could go 31-8 and still get in (8-2 to end the year). They need to sweep PLU and put up a strong showing against Linfield though.
If they go 31-8 they deserve to get in BUT...no guarantee's with Pool C bids. Some teams that seem to be sure Pool C bids have been left out every year for the past 5 years with people wondering what happened. There is no logic when it comes to Pool C bids and many times with some choices being very subjective to me. Remember Pool C bids are awarded on a National not regional basis and anything can happen and has in prior years. Only sure thing for GF is to win all their remaining games and make the decision be an easy one for the committee.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 10:41:01 PM
32 wins in 2010 was not enough for TLU in 2010 and IWU won a National Championship with 21 losses in 2010 and got into their conference tourney with 20 losses. So anything is possible. Only guarantee is win your Pool A Bid like IWU did in 2010 to get a a regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2014, 10:46:57 PM
I will repeat what I have been saying since the beginning of the season. GF season will come down to how well they play against Linfield the last 5 games of the season. If they go at least 2-5 and compete well they are likely in, if not...they can come and watch.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 07, 2014, 11:06:17 PM
Sure, let's fly in a couple teams from Iowa or wherever, the Kingsford charcoal sales will soar in McMinville in early May with the two "Two and 'ques"
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 07, 2014, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 07, 2014, 11:06:17 PM
Sure, let's fly in a couple teams from Iowa or wherever, the Kingsford charcoal sales will soar in McMinville in early May with the two "Two and 'ques"
Yep...NCAA does not use always used logic....it is up to GFU to win it on the field and earn their spot to McMinville. A 8-2 record with 2 wins over Linfield and a sweep of PLU gets them in as a Pool C IMO. Anything else and if you stay home "THERE IS NO CRYING IN BASEBALL". If I was making the rules all Pool A bids must  win a conference tourney(Round 1 of playoffs). I would chose the remaining Pool C bids from #1 seeds in Conference Tourney that did not win their conference tourney. If there is not enough add #2 seeds etc..D3 Winning percentage..more based on Winning on the field, less on complex formulas
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 08, 2014, 03:27:28 AM
That would give incentive to schedule weak and advantage to playing in a weak conference. If practically the only way to guarantee a bid before conference tournament is to be the top seed in your conference, then it helps to have a conference where there's not much competition to be that top seed. There have been national champions from Pool C that weren't top seeds in their conference tournament.

Don't all Pool A bids have to win their conference as it is?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 08, 2014, 09:26:42 AM
......drum roll......I agree with Spence!

This is getting sick, twice now in the same month......
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2014, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 08, 2014, 03:27:28 AM
That would give incentive to schedule weak and advantage to playing in a weak conference. If practically the only way to guarantee a bid before conference tournament is to be the top seed in your conference, then it helps to have a conference where there's not much competition to be that top seed. There have been national champions from Pool C that weren't top seeds in their conference tournament.

Don't all Pool A bids have to win their conference as it is?
Almost all conferences now reward their Pool A bids to the Conference Tourney Winner. A few do not have Conference Tourney's and get their Pool A bids through the winner of conference games with no Conference Tourney(I would change this to require all conferences to have a conference tournney)  and of course a few conferences do not get a Pool A bids and must try to get a bid through the Pool B/C bid process. SOS should be also be used along with D3 Winning Percentage, D3 Conference Winning Percentage and D3 Regional Winning Percentage. As far as non D3 games they should never be used in the process and should be less that 20% of a teams schedule in my opinion. 

I still believe a better process is needed for Pool B/C bids that need to be won on the field and not in a committee. BUT cost is always a issue for the Multi-Billion Corporation with highly paid executives and school presidents called the NCAA a very big business which is not always a student-athlete first organization IMO.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 08, 2014, 03:34:26 PM
OK that actually sounds reasonably close to what they do now for Pool B/C. I expect there to be a couple of Pool B eligible teams that get in as C's.

I don't think conferences should be required to have tournaments. There are reasons to and reasons not to. I tend toward the "more baseball is better" (to a point) side of the equation, but doesn't mean everyone will.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2014, 05:26:13 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 08, 2014, 03:34:26 PM
OK that actually sounds reasonably close to what they do now for Pool B/C. I expect there to be a couple of Pool B eligible teams that get in as C's.

I don't think conferences should be required to have tournaments. There are reasons to and reasons not to. I tend toward the "more baseball is better" (to a point) side of the equation, but doesn't mean everyone will.
I view conference tournaments as round 1 of playoff baseball. Also keeps interest in the season alive for many teams. A few years ago a 4th seed in a conference tournament won the national championship. With no conference tourney this would not be possible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 08, 2014, 07:51:21 PM
I think your position is quite defensible, as is the opposite. Reality is the NCAA is going to let the conferences decide.

I'm glad my alma mater's conference has a tournament, even though it would probably be better for us if it didn't. They're just fun, for the fans but most importantly for the players.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2014, 07:58:26 PM
It's is great a 4th seed in a conference tourney has a chance to go to a regional and a chance to win a national championship. With no conference tourney this team/players season would end after their last regular season game. It is great their season gets extended in a Conference Tourney.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 08, 2014, 10:32:35 PM
Not only is it fun for the top seeds but it keeps the back half of the season meaningful for most teams in conference play as middle of the road teams are all fighting to get into the conference tournament, the top teams trying to get the top seed, really nothing bad from a tournament IMO. If you are a top team and for some reason you lose by a fluke then you will likely get into to the Regionals via rankings and if not then you would probably not compete with the top teams there anyway. The positives out-way the negatives IMO.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 10, 2014, 10:20:15 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 08, 2014, 10:32:35 PM
Not only is it fun for the top seeds but it keeps the back half of the season meaningful for most teams in conference play as middle of the road teams are all fighting to get into the conference tournament, the top teams trying to get the top seed, really nothing bad from a tournament IMO. If you are a top team and for some reason you lose by a fluke then you will likely get into to the Regionals via rankings and if not then you would probably not compete with the top teams there anyway. The positives out-way the negatives IMO.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2014, 07:58:26 PM
It's is great a 4th seed in a conference tourney has a chance to go to a regional and a chance to win a national championship. With no conference tourney this team/players season would end after their last regular season game. It is great their season gets extended in a Conference Tourney.
Quote from: Spence on April 08, 2014, 03:34:26 PM
OK that actually sounds reasonably close to what they do now for Pool B/C. I expect there to be a couple of Pool B eligible teams that get in as C's.

I don't think conferences should be required to have tournaments. There are reasons to and reasons not to. I tend toward the "more baseball is better" (to a point) side of the equation, but doesn't mean everyone will.
Well-stated summations of the points that I favor with the current process. Twenty-loss IWU certainly had a Cinderella season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 13, 2014, 09:31:49 PM
Wow what a wild weekend in the Wild Wild West. :o :o

I have a hard time putting together a top 10 since so many teams seem to be playing themselves out of contention. It may end up being a case of "close your eyes and pick who smells the least".

1. Linfield - uhh... no comments needed
2. Trinity  - getting back to Championship baseball, too bad they will see Linfield again in the Regional, but there is always hope.....
Pair of "W's" ? "who" or "winners" ?
3/4 Williamette/Whittier

5. Chapman ?
They are looking better every day....

6-10 The other "W's" Who knows?

Everyone else is playing themselves out of contention. (if they don't win conference)

GF loses 2 of 3 and is now rolling into 5 with THE BEAST. I doubt they make the regional unless they do something like 3 of 4 vs Linfield.

LeTour - loses 2 of 4

Concordia - loses 2 of 4 (still odds on favorite for ASC)

CLU - loses 3 of 4....They in fact may lose to Chapman in the SCIAC

Wow could be a lot of fly in's in the West.....



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 14, 2014, 12:41:38 PM
As of 4/14/2014 West Regional looks like

1. Linfield
2. Trinity
3. Chapman
4. CTX
5. Fly in outside the region
6. Fly in outside the region



IF Whitter keeps winning they will get in. Big Series with Chapman this week. Who would have predicted this?  Not Me  ??? ??? ???

Williamette has a shot also

Still lots of baseball left but many teams are doing a good job in not getting a Pool C bid by losing games GFU, CLU, LeTour  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Teams that are losing will need to win their conference tourney to get in.

Upsets in conference tourney's will change everything of course
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 14, 2014, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 14, 2014, 12:41:38 PM
As of 4/14/2014 West Regional looks like

1. Linfield
2. Trinity
3. Chapman
4. CTX
5. Fly in outside the region
6. Fly in outside the region



IF Whitter keeps winning they will get in. Big Series with Chapman this week. Who would have predicted this?  Not Me  ??? ??? ???

Williamette has a shot also

Still lots of baseball left but many teams are doing a good job in not getting a Pool C bid by losing games GFU, CLU, LeTour  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Teams that are losing will need to win their conference tourney to get in.

Upsets in conference tourney's will change everything of course

I'm not so sure you should already count out Cal Lu and put Chapman in the Regional.  That being said, Cal Lu can't afford to keep playing this way.  Cal Lu has 8 d-3 losses, Chapman has 9.  No clue what the Regional rankings will look like but I do agree on Linfield and Trinity being 1 and 2.  After that I think Cal Lu, Chapman, Whittier and Concordia (in no order) are in the top 6 or very close to it.  Willamette only has 7 d-3 losses and could be up there as well.  George Fox has 8 d-3 losses, PLU has 10 and Le Tourneau has 9.  Someone will get knocked out of the SCIAC race with more losses as 2 of those 3 will have a minimum of 2 more losses and the NWC is all but wrapped up.  Should be interesting to see how it all works out.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 14, 2014, 02:20:59 PM
1. Linfield

2. Pull team out of hat from about 8 different choices.

I don't know if they're all good or none of them are, but there's a bunch that are not really differentiated.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 14, 2014, 02:29:17 PM
Jack, I have to agree with Crash regarding Chapman, they are getting stronger as the season progresses and we all know their pitching is coming off injuries. CLU pitching has been very inconsistent. Obviously lots of baseball left, but the winner of the SCIAC may be the only SoCal team at the Regional if this trend continues.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 14, 2014, 02:37:47 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 14, 2014, 02:29:17 PM
Jack, I have to agree with Crash regarding Chapman, they are getting stronger as the season progresses and we all know their pitching is coming off injuries. CLU pitching has been very inconsistent. Obviously lots of baseball left, but the winner of the SCIAC may be the only SoCal team at the Regional if this trend continues.

Absolutely agree that Chapman has been on a really good run and they have the pitching.  Interesting to see how it all shakes out with the round-robin.  Getting the top 2 seeds will be crucial.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 14, 2014, 02:41:09 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 14, 2014, 02:29:17 PM
Jack, I have to agree with Crash regarding Chapman, they are getting stronger as the season progresses and we all know their pitching is coming off injuries. CLU pitching has been very inconsistent. Obviously lots of baseball left, but the winner of the SCIAC may be the only SoCal team at the Regional if this trend continues.

Does SOS have any bearing this year.

If Chapman played top 25 teams like Trinity, Cal Lu and Kean with wins over Cal Lu and Kean. Lots of baseball left just my assesment if today was pick the Regional teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on April 14, 2014, 03:04:46 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 14, 2014, 02:20:59 PM
1. Linfield

2. Pull team out of hat from about 8 different choices.

I don't know if they're all good or none of them are, but there's a bunch that are not really differentiated.
agreed...until someone beats them, they are in a class by themselves.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 14, 2014, 05:09:11 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 14, 2014, 12:41:38 PM
As of 4/14/2014 West Regional looks like

1. Linfield
2. Trinity
3. Chapman
4. CTX
5. Fly in outside the region
6. Fly in outside the region



IF Whitter keeps winning they will get in. Big Series with Chapman this week. Who would have predicted this?  Not Me  ??? ??? ???

Williamette has a shot also

Still lots of baseball left but many teams are doing a good job in not getting a Pool C bid by losing games GFU, CLU, LeTour  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Teams that are losing will need to win their conference tourney to get in.

Upsets in conference tourney's will change everything of course

Based on Whittier winning 2x vs CLU this weekend, and Chapman playing Cal Tech, I think WHittier did more to earn consideration for #3 this week than CHapman did.  Of course, the upcoming 3 game series between the two of them will help resolve this...   at least until the conf Tourney.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 14, 2014, 05:12:13 PM
I pick Linfield to win West Regional and repeat as National Champions. I guess I will check back June 1 to see if I am right.  Scott Brosius is the best D3 baseball coach IMO. His teams are always well prepared and well coached to beat teams in all facets of the game. Hitting, Pitching, Defense, Running. Attention to detail is amazing. They don't always have the best players in the country but as a collective team they will play the game the right way and beat teams on fundamentals. EXECUTE is the word I used to describe for Linfield after watching them up close for 4 years from SoCal.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 14, 2014, 06:24:17 PM
In the back of my mind, I recall all of the annual regionals (the last 12 years that I have been following ASC baseball beyond the conference level, starting with the 2002 CTX team).  I am always pleased at how close and balanced this region is. Last year, in 11 games we had one game that was not decided by 2 runs or less!

It is one thing to knock out the Pool C contenders due balance in the conferences. It is another assume that these teams are not quality teams that would contend for the crown in other regionals as well.

That being said, Linfield does look very very strong and is my current pick to repeat (all the way.)

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 14, 2014, 07:22:08 PM
Linfield does look strong. But the West region is extremely deep. I could see 6 or 7 teams winning it all. I mean, Linfield played really close games last year in the regional, and they easily could've lost. I think their one advantage comes from pitching experience. Every single pitcher from last year's regional and world series is back on the team, and their top reliever was injured last year. The highest ERA of a pitcher that will see "important" innings for them is 1.97. Tough to beat.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 15, 2014, 01:13:44 PM
Willamette is interesting right now.  They are in fact the only D3 team to beat Linfield this season, and they are very hot right now.  They are leading the NWC in team batting (for In-Conference Games) by a pretty large margin.  The potential issue I see for them regarding a pool C bid is even if they win out, and go 27 - 11 on the year, they played 7 NAIA games, thus will log only 31 D3 games (they would end-up at 23-8 against D3 teams).  Remember Pacific tied Whitworth for the conference title in 2012, but lost the tie break for the Pool "A" Auto bid.  Pacific played a bunch of non-D3 games that year, which seemed to be a knock against them getting a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 15, 2014, 01:28:33 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 14, 2014, 07:22:08 PM
Linfield does look strong. But the West region is extremely deep. I could see 6 or 7 teams winning it all. I mean, Linfield played really close games last year in the regional, and they easily could've lost. I think their one advantage comes from pitching experience. Every single pitcher from last year's regional and world series is back on the team, and their top reliever was injured last year. The highest ERA of a pitcher that will see "important" innings for them is 1.97. Tough to beat.
Linfield's difference maker IMO after watching up close over a 5 year period is their Head Coach Scott Brosius. His players just play very fundamental baseball and play extremely well in a playoff situation like the regional's and rarely beat themselves along with great pitching and timely hitting. It will tough beating Linfield at the home field in McMinnville in the West Regional. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 15, 2014, 01:41:17 PM
Quote from: Spence on April 14, 2014, 02:20:59 PM
1. Linfield

2. Pull team out of hat from about 8 different choices.

I don't know if they're all good or none of them are, but there's a bunch that are not really differentiated.
Agreed now. Each week will make this foggy picture clearer.

Lots of choices
SCIAC - Cal Lu, Chapman, Whittier
SCAC- - Trinity, Texas Lutheran
ASC  - CTX, LeTourneau
NWC- Linfield, Williamette, George Fox

Always the cinderella suprise team with a conference tourney and Pool A bid is possible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 16, 2014, 02:35:16 PM
For those who were not aware on 4-12-14 the Trinity Tigers "roared in pink", honoring Christa Scannell and all breast cancer patients. The team wore pink jersey's as well as the fans, who purchased pink T's. All proceeds went to local cancer charities.

For those interested a short video of the event is here:

http://vimeo.com/92099311

There certainly is more to life than baseball.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 16, 2014, 03:18:27 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 16, 2014, 02:35:16 PM
For those who were not aware on 4-12-14 the Trinity Tigers "roared in pink", honoring Christa Scannell and all breast cancer patients. The team wore pink jersey's as well as the fans, who purchased pink T's. All proceeds went to local cancer charities.

For those interested a short video of the event is here:

http://vimeo.com/92099311

There certainly is more to life than baseball.

Just plain awesome.  Props to Trinity.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Spence on April 16, 2014, 03:31:16 PM
+k

Awesome stuff.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 16, 2014, 03:55:43 PM
Outstanding !
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on April 16, 2014, 11:52:35 PM
Christa Scannell is a true superstar! Thank you 108 for sharing the video.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 17, 2014, 12:01:53 AM
Quote from: Spence on April 16, 2014, 03:31:16 PM
+k

Awesome stuff.

agreed!!!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 18, 2014, 03:19:37 PM
How in the world do teams in this day and age not have video feeds !!!!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on April 18, 2014, 03:46:07 PM
I can't get GFU's live stats going.  It just showing a previous UPS/GFU game.   :-\
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 18, 2014, 04:01:15 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 18, 2014, 03:19:37 PM
How in the world do teams in this day and age not have video feeds !!!!

Yeah, a huge pet peeve of mine.  Heck, Univ. Puget Sound doesn't even offer Live Stats, it's like the Internet has yet to arrive in Tacoma.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 18, 2014, 04:46:17 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 18, 2014, 03:19:37 PM
How in the world do teams in this day and age not have video feeds !!!!

Agreed.  Frustrating when ther is a link to the live stats/video for the game and it ends up as nothing.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on April 18, 2014, 05:14:07 PM
Fox downs Linfield 4-1 in the 1st game. Says Gartner threw a CG.  Via Fox baseball's twitter feed.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 18, 2014, 05:59:53 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on April 18, 2014, 05:14:07 PM
Fox downs Linfield 4-1 in the 1st game. Says Gartner threw a CG.  Via Fox baseball's twitter feed.

Wow, thats a huge win for Fox.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 18, 2014, 06:45:30 PM
Uncharacteristic three errors from Linfield in that game (averaging less than one per game on the season; box score (http://athletics.georgefox.edu/sports/bsb/2013-14/files/gfb04181.htm)).   They're up 2-0 after three in the second game.   Apparently the live stats won't be available until tomorrow.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 18, 2014, 06:53:26 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 18, 2014, 06:45:30 PM
Uncharacteristic three errors from Linfield in that game (averaging less than one per game on the season; box score (http://athletics.georgefox.edu/sports/bsb/2013-14/files/gfb04181.htm)).   They're up 2-0 after three in the second game.   Apparently the live stats won't be available until tomorrow.

Maybe the Live Stats take the day off at George Fox on Good Friday.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 18, 2014, 07:36:23 PM
Wow, Tyler completes a clean sweep of Concordia with a couple of 1-run wins today.  Bad weekend for the Tornadoes.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 18, 2014, 08:49:44 PM
Linfield dominates game two, 12-3. They hit the ball hard all day but finally found some holes. Fox's pen is very meh. Linfield is now 3 games up with 4 games left.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 18, 2014, 09:06:31 PM
Chapman, Whittier and Cal Lu all are now tied for 1st place at 16-6 in the SCIAC conference after today's games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 20, 2014, 02:40:12 PM
Possible Pool C bid teams in the West if they lose conference tournament

Trinity-Texas(30-7)
Cal Lu(27-8)
Chapman(25-10)
Concordia-Texas(23-7)


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 20, 2014, 04:25:35 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 20, 2014, 02:40:12 PM
Possible Pool C bid teams in the West if they lose conference tournament

Trinity-Texas(30-7)
Cal Lu(27-8)
Chapman(25-10)
Concordia-Texas(23-7)

Plus*

Le Tourneau: Win 4 of 6 and get to ASC Championship game
George Fox: Beat Corbin 2x and then at least split with Linfield both games competitive
Williamette: Win out

* if the get on a roll at end of season

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 20, 2014, 04:46:34 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 20, 2014, 04:25:35 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 20, 2014, 02:40:12 PM
Possible Pool C bid teams in the West if they lose conference tournament

Trinity-Texas(30-7)
Cal Lu(27-8)
Chapman(25-10)
Concordia-Texas(23-7)

Plus*

Le Tourneau: Win 4 of 6 and get to ASC Championship game
George Fox: Beat Corbin 2x and then at least split with Linfield both games competitive
Williamette: Win out

* if the get on a roll at end of season

Corbin isn't d-3, makes no difference.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 20, 2014, 05:33:31 PM
Boy that is a tough one for GF. I would think that they would have to win 2 vs Linfield - which is unlikely, I guess we will have to see where they stand when the regional rankings come out.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 21, 2014, 11:48:19 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 20, 2014, 04:46:34 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 20, 2014, 04:25:35 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 20, 2014, 02:40:12 PM
Possible Pool C bid teams in the West if they lose conference tournament

Trinity-Texas(30-7)
Cal Lu(27-8)
Chapman(25-10)
Concordia-Texas(23-7)

Plus*

Le Tourneau: Win 4 of 6 and get to ASC Championship game
George Fox: Beat Corbin 2x and then at least split with Linfield both games competitive
Williamette: Win out

* if the get on a roll at end of season

Corbin isn't d-3, makes no difference.
If Williamette wins. It has a 25-14 record. IMO won't be good enough for a Pool C since these bids are awarded on National not a Regional basis
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 21, 2014, 11:56:09 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 21, 2014, 11:48:19 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 20, 2014, 04:46:34 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 20, 2014, 04:25:35 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 20, 2014, 02:40:12 PM
Possible Pool C bid teams in the West if they lose conference tournament

Trinity-Texas(30-7)
Cal Lu(27-8)
Chapman(25-10)
Concordia-Texas(23-7)

Plus*

Le Tourneau: Win 4 of 6 and get to ASC Championship game
George Fox: Beat Corbin 2x and then at least split with Linfield both games competitive
Williamette: Win out

* if the get on a roll at end of season

Corbin isn't d-3, makes no difference.
If Williamette wins. It has a 25-14 record. IMO won't be good enough for a Pool C since these bids are awarded on National not a Regional basis

Plus, they would only be 22-10 vs. D3 teams, as they played 7 NAIA games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on April 21, 2014, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 21, 2014, 11:48:19 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 20, 2014, 04:46:34 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 20, 2014, 04:25:35 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 20, 2014, 02:40:12 PM
Possible Pool C bid teams in the West if they lose conference tournament

Trinity-Texas(30-7)
Cal Lu(27-8)
Chapman(25-10)
Concordia-Texas(23-7)

Plus*

Le Tourneau: Win 4 of 6 and get to ASC Championship game
George Fox: Beat Corbin 2x and then at least split with Linfield both games competitive
Williamette: Win out

* if the get on a roll at end of season

Corbin isn't d-3, makes no difference.
If Williamette wins. It has a 25-14 record. IMO won't be good enough for a Pool C since these bids are awarded on National not a Regional basis

Agreed about Willamette but what a great year for them.  They'll be returning 4 out of their top 5 bats and all three of their starting pitching.  Not sure if they repeat this season's conference success but I see them being in the NWC mix next season as well.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 21, 2014, 04:52:33 PM
Concordia was swept by UTT over the weekend and their record is now 23-10 with an 18-8  conference mark in the ASC. LeTournue and Mary Hardin-Baylor are tied for second both with 23-11 records and are both 17-10 in the confeerence.  The ASC is not very strong this year and I don't see anyone other than the conference champion advancing.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 23, 2014, 08:26:16 PM
Top Teams in the West

1. Linfield
2.-6. Does it matter since they will not beat Linfield in the regional.

West Regional
4 Pool A Bids

NWC - Linfield
ASC
SCIAC
SCAC
2 flyin's from another region
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 24, 2014, 05:44:52 PM
First regional rankings were published today with Linfield obviously in the top spot, and featuring two SCIAC teams:
http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2014/04/regional-rankings-week-one (http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2014/04/regional-rankings-week-one)

1. Linfield                26-2
2. Trinity                 30-7
3. Cal Lu                 27-8
4. Chapman            23-9
5. Concordia Tx       23-10
6. George Fox          22-10

I don't know much about the other conferences this year, but the rankings don't seem all that suprising. The biggest gripe you might be able to make is having the two SCIAC schools up there when the Texas teams and NWC just dominated the SCIAC at the beginning of the year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 24, 2014, 06:07:03 PM
Regarding the West Rankings, I think I just "believe" in Chapman a little more than Cal Lutheran, relative to the potential of making a run in the Regional.  Remember, Chapman started the season 0-4 in D3, but, they have gone 24-5 vs. D3 since then (includes the W vs. out-of-region Kean), and, putting yesterday's shaky Cal Tech game aside, are still owners currently of a 10 game win streak.  They just seem hotter, more consistent in comparison to Cal Lu.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 24, 2014, 07:16:41 PM
Doing some more searching/discussing and I think there's also a good argument for PLU over Fox once you look a little deeper than NWC standings...

Take out their non-DIII games and I think they're 21-11.
Most importantly they took 2/3 from Fox (not to mention swept Willamette who swept Fox).
They're 5-2 against the SCIAC (losses to CLU, PP and wins against WC, ULV, WC, CMSx2).
And I'm pretty sure they have the strongest SOS in the West (need to go double check on that).

Thoughts?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: bzzboyz on April 24, 2014, 07:21:47 PM
I've never been able to understand the constant love affair the powers that be have with Condordia. They get swept by UTT. A clearly inferior team this season in a crucial conference series. They're 0-2 against TLU (one was a drumming) and lost 2 of 3 in conference to Mississippi College who is currently in 5th. They have 8 conference losses with 6 still left to play. Three against a really strong MHB team. They could easily end the season in second place in the conference. The list above only shows total losses, but I'd imagine none of those teams have that many conference losses. Guess I'm missing something. ???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 24, 2014, 08:16:02 PM
Quote from: bzzboyz on April 24, 2014, 07:21:47 PM
I've never been able to understand the constant love affair the powers that be have with Condordia. They get swept by UTT. A clearly inferior team this season in a crucial conference series. They're 0-2 against TLU (one was a drumming) and lost 2 of 3 in conference to Mississippi College who is currently in 5th. They have 8 conference losses with 6 still left to play. Three against a really strong MHB team. They could easily end the season in second place in the conference. The list above only shows total losses, but I'd imagine none of those teams have that many conference losses. Guess I'm missing something. ???

I agree 100% and think Concordia and George Fox will drop from this list. I'm curious how Trinity does in the SCAC tourney and I'll be curious to see what happens in the SCIAC with Cal Lu and Chapman. If one of them doesn't win the conference tourney they have to play for the title at a minimum. I am going with 1 team being flown in from outside the West at this point but that could change soon.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 24, 2014, 09:44:26 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 24, 2014, 08:16:02 PM
Quote from: bzzboyz on April 24, 2014, 07:21:47 PM
I've never been able to understand the constant love affair the powers that be have with Condordia. They get swept by UTT. A clearly inferior team this season in a crucial conference series. They're 0-2 against TLU (one was a drumming) and lost 2 of 3 in conference to Mississippi College who is currently in 5th. They have 8 conference losses with 6 still left to play. Three against a really strong MHB team. They could easily end the season in second place in the conference. The list above only shows total losses, but I'd imagine none of those teams have that many conference losses. Guess I'm missing something. ???

I agree 100% and think Concordia and George Fox will drop from this list. I'm curious how Trinity does in the SCAC tourney and I'll be curious to see what happens in the SCIAC with Cal Lu and Chapman. If one of them doesn't win the conference tourney they have to play for the title at a minimum. I am going with 1 team being flown in from outside the West at this point but that could change soon.

I agree about a team being flown in, but what two teams would you add to the rankings ahead of GF and CTX? PLU and MHB? Willamette? It's a down year for the West, and someone has to fill out the top 6.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 24, 2014, 09:49:56 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 24, 2014, 09:44:26 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 24, 2014, 08:16:02 PM
Quote from: bzzboyz on April 24, 2014, 07:21:47 PM
I've never been able to understand the constant love affair the powers that be have with Condordia. They get swept by UTT. A clearly inferior team this season in a crucial conference series. They're 0-2 against TLU (one was a drumming) and lost 2 of 3 in conference to Mississippi College who is currently in 5th. They have 8 conference losses with 6 still left to play. Three against a really strong MHB team. They could easily end the season in second place in the conference. The list above only shows total losses, but I'd imagine none of those teams have that many conference losses. Guess I'm missing something. ???

I agree 100% and think Concordia and George Fox will drop from this list. I'm curious how Trinity does in the SCAC tourney and I'll be curious to see what happens in the SCIAC with Cal Lu and Chapman. If one of them doesn't win the conference tourney they have to play for the title at a minimum. I am going with 1 team being flown in from outside the West at this point but that could change soon.

I agree about a team being flown in, but what two teams would you add to the rankings ahead of GF and CTX? PLU and MHB? Willamette? It's a down year for the West, and someone has to fill out the top 6.
Being ranked 5 or 6 does not get you into the regional but not being ranked guarantee's you will not be in the regional. A few more weeks to change things. Still see at least 1 team flying in. Upsets in conference tourney could change that
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 25, 2014, 05:17:36 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 24, 2014, 07:16:41 PM
Doing some more searching/discussing and I think there's also a good argument for PLU over Fox once you look a little deeper than NWC standings...

Take out their non-DIII games and I think they're 21-11.
Most importantly they took 2/3 from Fox (not to mention swept Willamette who swept Fox).
They're 5-2 against the SCIAC (losses to CLU, PP and wins against WC, ULV, WC, CMSx2).
And I'm pretty sure they have the strongest SOS in the West (need to go double check on that).

Thoughts?

The issue with NWC teams was that although many teams have breezed through their non-conference schedule, nobody besides Linfield could really distinguish themselves once conference play began.  Willamette and PLU have 7 and 8 conferences losses, respectively, each with a series yet to play.  Meanwhile G. Fox, who has completed conference play, has 9 conference losses.

Another factor is that Linfield, PLU, G. Fox and Willamette each play 7 games this season versus local WA/OR NAIA/D2 teams, which are basically throw-away games relative to building a Pool C resume.  Linfield is so dominant, plus they won Pool A qualifier, so it did not harm them this year. This is primarily because it is virtually impossible to get teams from other conferences to travel to the Northwest. Other than playing non-conference games against in-conference teams (which nobody likes), in order to fill a 40 game schedule with D3 opponents, a NWC team requires a third airline trip (most NWC teams take 2 trips a year) Playing nearly 1/5th of your games against NAIA, even if you win those games, really hampers you versus the selection criteria.

This situation may become even more problematic if the annual February "Arizona Classic" goes the way of the Do-Do Bird next year, as rumored. (this year's group of teams was very small, only 4 NWC and 3 SCIAC) It is an issue that there are not more opportunities for multiple (10-12) D3 teams to congregate in the West Region (preferably in AZ, So Cal or TX) to play lots of games, akin to what occurs in Florida each spring. Maybe the programs need to get on the stick and really think about the big picture, and really try to get more events/opportunities like this organized.  To me, they make a lot more sense than a team flying 1,000 – 2,500 miles to play a weekend series against a single opponent.

This would benefit all West Region teams, but alas, I'm just a dreamer....

There are great, centralized facilities in the Northwest for something like this, but I guess I can sort of understand why teams don't want to travel to that area.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 25, 2014, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 25, 2014, 05:17:36 PM

This would benefit all West Region teams, but alas, I'm just a dreamer....

There are great, centralized facilities in the Northwest for something like this, but I guess I can sort of understand why teams don't want to travel to that area.

Yes, but everyone loves a dreamer. ;)

We complain about the weather going in May, can you imagine what we would say going in Feb?  :o

I think a lot of NW teams will end up "making a pass" through SoCal or possibly Texas/Louisiana.  Trinity found a way to get in two series with home/away's with Hendrix and Millsaps, two normally strong programs, but these have 10 hour bus rides associated with them. They do a home/away with Chapman. A pass though Texas vs Trinity, TLU, and Concordia would be a good test for any Northwest team, they could even play a couple of weaker teams if they wanted to have a winning record for the trip.  ;D
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 25, 2014, 06:02:21 PM
We all love to dream.

I think a pretty decent solution to the non-league games would be one extended trip (spring break?) where they can get a lot of games in. Obviously, softball is different, but Linfield's softball team took a week long trip to Texas and had 11 games scheduled during that time.

It would be great if a team were able to fly out on a Friday (or even Sat. morning), play a three game series, catch two or three midweek games, and then play another three game series before flying back. They could, conceivably, get 8 or 9 games in over 7/8 days. But this is all speculation. Just waiting for this regional to get going!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 25, 2014, 07:10:27 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on April 25, 2014, 06:02:21 PM
We all love to dream.

I think a pretty decent solution to the non-league games would be one extended trip (spring break?) where they can get a lot of games in. Obviously, softball is different, but Linfield's softball team took a week long trip to Texas and had 11 games scheduled during that time.

It would be great if a team were able to fly out on a Friday (or even Sat. morning), play a three game series, catch two or three midweek games, and then play another three game series before flying back. They could, conceivably, get 8 or 9 games in over 7/8 days. But this is all speculation. Just waiting for this regional to get going!

The issue with the Spring Break thing is that it seems the NWC conference schools are not synched on their spring breaks, and the breaks fall right in the middle of conference play, so unless your spring break falls during your conference bye-week, no spring break baseball trip.

I know it's all speculation, but I can see it (scheduling) becoming a bigger, and bigger problem. Three trips with flights won't "fly" with most programs, unless the administration is willing to spend upwards of $5K a year per player.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 25, 2014, 07:15:50 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 25, 2014, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on April 25, 2014, 05:17:36 PM

This would benefit all West Region teams, but alas, I'm just a dreamer....

There are great, centralized facilities in the Northwest for something like this, but I guess I can sort of understand why teams don't want to travel to that area.

Yes, but everyone loves a dreamer. ;)

We complain about the weather going in May, can you imagine what we would say going in Feb?  :o

I think a lot of NW teams will end up "making a pass" through SoCal or possibly Texas/Louisiana.  Trinity found a way to get in two series with home/away's with Hendrix and Millsaps, two normally strong programs, but these have 10 hour bus rides associated with them. They do a home/away with Chapman. A pass though Texas vs Trinity, TLU, and Concordia would be a good test for any Northwest team, they could even play a couple of weaker teams if they wanted to have a winning record for the trip.  ;D

Yes, some NWC teams did get out to Texas this year, and I'm betting more will next.  Plus, there's he SCIAC swings.  The issue I see is that with a 24 game conference schedule, to fill close to 40 D3 games, it pretty much requires that 3rd trip - which is an issue on a couple levels - unless these 6-7 game trips can be organized.  Personally, I'd love to see more teams get a shot at the top Texas teams.  Why fly 2,500 miles without a challenge!

Plus, the thing with Trinity and Hendrix/Milsaps/Chapman is that they are HOME/AWAYS....The HOME part of the deal seems to be the problem for the NWC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 25, 2014, 09:36:08 PM
Chapman is 17-3 in it's last 20 games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 25, 2014, 09:55:07 PM
The ASC cut back on non-conference games so that the members could fill their 40 game allotment.
Mississippi College goes to D-2 next year and McMurry still has D-2 obligations for 2014-15.

That frees up 3 games for ASC schools who might go to Arizona.

Also, the fact that there are no "in-region" restrictions now may permit some schools from other cold weather areas to come to AZ.  How happy were the Midwest and Central Region schools, without the Metrodome?   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 26, 2014, 12:22:00 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 25, 2014, 09:55:07 PM
The ASC cut back on non-conference games so that the members could fill their 40 game allotment.
Mississippi College goes to D-2 next year and McMurry still has D-2 obligations for 2014-15.

That frees up 3 games for ASC schools who might go to Arizona.

Also, the fact that there are no "in-region" restrictions now may permit some schools from other cold weather areas to come to AZ.  How happy were the Midwest and Central Region schools, without the Metrodome?   
I did not know that McMurry is returning to DIII. Chapman enjoyed games with McMurry over the years. I made 2 trips to Abilene. http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2014/01/mcmurry-returning-to-division-iii
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 01, 2014, 06:02:10 PM
New Regional Rankings have been posted:
1. Linfield      29-2
2. Cal Lu       31-8
3. Trinity       30-8
4. Chapman   26-10
4. Concordia  25-11
4. Pac Lu       21-11

From last week, CLU jumped Trinity to #2, and Pac Lu jumped George Fox for the 6 spot. GFU is no longer ranked.

In terms of bids wrapped up:
1. Linfield (NWC Champ)
2. CLU (SCIAC Champ/At large)
3. Trinity (SCAC Champ/At large)
4. ASC Champ
5. ??
6. ?? (Out of region flight?)

I think Concordia will have a tough time getting in without winning their conference, and maybe Chapman too, since that would mean two extra losses. Pac Lu is done for the year and hopes favorites around the country to win their conference tournaments.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on May 01, 2014, 06:20:43 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 01, 2014, 06:02:10 PM
New Regional Rankings have been posted:
1. Linfield      29-2
2. Cal Lu       31-8
3. Trinity       30-8
4. Chapman   26-10
4. Concordia  25-11
4. Pac Lu       21-11

The rankings have Chapman, Concordia and PLU at a three-way tie for 4th. Make of that what you will. (assuming it isn't a typo.)

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 01, 2014, 06:34:26 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on May 01, 2014, 06:20:43 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 01, 2014, 06:02:10 PM
New Regional Rankings have been posted:
1. Linfield      29-2
2. Cal Lu       31-8
3. Trinity       30-8
4. Chapman   26-10
4. Concordia  25-11
4. Pac Lu       21-11

The rankings have Chapman, Concordia and PLU at a three-way tie for 4th. Make of that what you will. (assuming it isn't a typo.)


You're absolutely right, fixed it.

Should make things more interesting. I think that essentially guarantees PLU (done with the regular season) would jump CTX if CTX loses the SCAC. Not sure about what would happen if Chapman went, say, 3-2 in the SCIAC tournament with two losses and a win against CLU. 

That would give Chapman 12 losses which is tough when PLU has 11 a very strong SOS (#3 nationally) according to Massey. But Chapman's SOS will get a bump from the tournament, and they've done something PLU has not- win against regionally ranked opponents (Chapman is 2-4, PLU 0-5).

PLU is put in a pretty familiar position- sitting on the practice field, wishing there was a conference tournament and hoping for the best. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out well for them the last few times they've been this close.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 01, 2014, 06:56:49 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 01, 2014, 06:34:26 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on May 01, 2014, 06:20:43 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 01, 2014, 06:02:10 PM
New Regional Rankings have been posted:
1. Linfield      29-2
2. Cal Lu       31-8
3. Trinity       30-8
4. Chapman   26-10
4. Concordia  25-11
4. Pac Lu       21-11

The rankings have Chapman, Concordia and PLU at a three-way tie for 4th. Make of that what you will. (assuming it isn't a typo.)


You're absolutely right, fixed it.

Should make things more interesting. I think that essentially guarantees PLU (done with the regular season) would jump CTX if CTX loses the SCAC. Not sure about what would happen if Chapman went, say, 3-2 in the SCIAC tournament with two losses and a win against CLU. 

That would give Chapman 12 losses which is tough when PLU has 11 a very strong SOS (#3 nationally) according to Massey. But Chapman's SOS will get a bump from the tournament, and they've done something PLU has not- win against regionally ranked opponents (Chapman is 2-4, PLU 0-5).

PLU is put in a pretty familiar position- sitting on the practice field, wishing there was a conference tournament and hoping for the best. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out well for them the last few times they've been this close.

If, and that is a big if, George Fox takes both games from Linfield in this weekend's non-conference set, I suspect they will jump PLU in next week's rankings?  G. Fox split two non-D3 games this past weekend, while PLU swept Pacific.  So, G. Fox and Linfield play tomorrow, then Linfield plays a Saturday doubleheader versus NAIA powerhouse Lewis and Clark State, then, G. Fox and Linfield for another game on Sunday.  So, how does Linfield position their starting rotation for these four  games?  It potentially sets up favorably for G. Fox.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on May 01, 2014, 11:17:10 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 01, 2014, 06:56:49 PM

If, and that is a big if, George Fox takes both games from Linfield in this weekend's non-conference set, I suspect they will jump PLU in next week's rankings?  G. Fox split two non-D3 games this past weekend, while PLU swept Pacific.  So, G. Fox and Linfield play tomorrow, then Linfield plays a Saturday doubleheader versus NAIA powerhouse Lewis and Clark State, then, G. Fox and Linfield for another game on Sunday.  So, how does Linfield position their starting rotation for these four  games?  It potentially sets up favorably for G. Fox.

I would imagine that the rotation will be pretty similar to what it was two weekends ago when these teams met up. Game 1 should feature Haddeland vs. Gartner. I also would not be surprised if Linfield keeps their Sunday starter in the same spot so I'd imagine Game 2 will be a rematch with Thomassen facing Zarosinski (they may flip flop Brandon and Thomassen however). Either way, Fox will have to beat two pitchers who had good outings against them in that last series.

And yes Fox certainly has a lot to play for as I would imagine they are #7 in the West Region rankings. Two wins, IMO, would be quite impressive and should be enough to get them an at-large bid. One win, on the other hand, will make things a lot more interesting and we will have to see how teams do in their conference tournaments (I still won't be too surprised if they fly in a team outside the region, but I hope the West gets 6 teams). I'm glad to see, however, that two NWC teams are right on the cusp of getting into the Regional along with Linfield.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 01, 2014, 11:55:14 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 01, 2014, 06:02:10 PM
New Regional Rankings have been posted:
1. Linfield      29-2
2. Cal Lu       31-8
3. Trinity       30-8
4. Chapman   26-10
4. Concordia  25-11
4. Pac Lu       21-11

From last week, CLU jumped Trinity to #2, and Pac Lu jumped George Fox for the 6 spot. GFU is no longer ranked.

In terms of bids wrapped up:
1. Linfield (NWC Champ)
2. CLU (SCIAC Champ/At large)
3. Trinity (SCAC Champ/At large)
4. ASC Champ
5. ??
6. ?? (Out of region flight?)

I think Concordia will have a tough time getting in without winning their conference, and maybe Chapman too, since that would mean two extra losses. Pac Lu is done for the year and hopes favorites around the country to win their conference tournaments.
IMO If Chapman takes CLU to a 2nd game in the SCIAC Championship game they get in. Not sure NWC will get a 2nd team. Most years they have not. Upset in SCAC or SCIAC means some teams are flying into the West Region IMO.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 02, 2014, 01:01:35 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 01, 2014, 11:55:14 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 01, 2014, 06:02:10 PM
New Regional Rankings have been posted:
1. Linfield      29-2
2. Cal Lu       31-8
3. Trinity       30-8
4. Chapman   26-10
4. Concordia  25-11
4. Pac Lu       21-11

From last week, CLU jumped Trinity to #2, and Pac Lu jumped George Fox for the 6 spot. GFU is no longer ranked.

In terms of bids wrapped up:
1. Linfield (NWC Champ)
2. CLU (SCIAC Champ/At large)
3. Trinity (SCAC Champ/At large)
4. ASC Champ
5. ??
6. ?? (Out of region flight?)

I think Concordia will have a tough time getting in without winning their conference, and maybe Chapman too, since that would mean two extra losses. Pac Lu is done for the year and hopes favorites around the country to win their conference tournaments.
IMO If Chapman takes CLU to a 2nd game in the SCIAC Championship game they get in. Not sure NWC will get a 2nd team. Most years they have not. Upset in SCAC or SCIAC means some teams are flying into the West Region IMO.

Agree with you on Chapman.
But I think an upset in SCIAC and/or SCAC makes it less likely that teams will fly in, because CLU and Trinity will still get at large bids.
Say Whittier/ULV and TLU/Centenary win those tournaments, I would see the regional like this:

Linfield (NWC Pool A)
SCIAC Pool A
SCAC Pool A
ASC Pool A
Cal Lu (Pool C)
Trinity (Pool C)

Plus if Fox were to win their Linfield games you could even make the argument that the West should get 7 teams in that scenario (and thus fly someone out!)... and depending on the rest of the Pool C field, you still might be able to throw Chapman or Pac Lu into the conversation. A lot has to go right, but still possible...

As I see it, it would also take a lot to fly someone in, considering 4 bids are automatic:
-Chapman has a poor performance in the SCIAC tournament (two losses, particularly w/o playing CLU and getting the SOS bump) AND CLU wins SCIAC tournament (improves odds of only 1 SCIAC bid)
-Trinity wins SCAC tournament (1 SCAC bid)
-Linfield beats Fox both times (improves odds of only 1 NWC bid)
-CTX wins ASC, or loses poorly (1 ASC bid)

Even in this circumstance, I think PLU gets a bid if for no other reason than cost (we've seen that a good resume doesn't always help them), and you get one team flown in. I'll even venture to say that there's no way they fly someone in at all if PLU (or Fox w/ 1-2 wins against Linfield) is still on the Pool C board.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 03, 2014, 11:12:45 AM
I'm sure PLU loved seeing Concordia drop another game last night and I would assume they will be rooting for CLU to beat Chapman today.  Top 3 all won yesterday as well as Chapman, one of the 3-#4's.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 03, 2014, 11:58:27 AM
Chapman's road to the regionals will be decided in today's game with CLU. A CU win should get them in. A CLU win will mean Chapman will have to win the SCIAC tournament the hard way thru the loser's bracket.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 03, 2014, 12:05:30 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 03, 2014, 11:58:27 AM
Chapman's road to the regionals will be decided in today's game with CLU. A CU win should get them in. A CLU win will mean Chapman will have to win the SCIAC tournament the hard way thru the loser's bracket.

Agreed 100%.  I think CLU is in regardless of the SCIAC tourney outcome but Chapman could really help their cause today.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on May 04, 2014, 10:08:57 PM
George Fox scores 9 runs in the first inning against Linfield (5 errors and 3 HBP in the 1st) to win the last game of the year.

George Fox finishes the year 28-12.
Pacific Lutheran goes 25-14.
Chapman finishes at 30-13.

Did any of these teams do enough to get an at-large bid?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on May 05, 2014, 12:44:08 AM
Not the way Linfield wanted to end the regular season.  Hope it was just a case of looking down the road and hope it served as a wake up call.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on May 05, 2014, 01:18:33 AM
Very uncharacteristic last couple days for the Wildcats. Yesterdayy appeared to be tryout day for the back end of the bullpen against Lewis Clark State (#2 in NAIA). The Cats had a chance to win it in the 8th in the second game, but squandered a great opportunity with some poor baserunning. The woes continued into today as the Cats committed six errors (4 in the 1st) to lose 10-2 to George Fox (all 10 runs were unearned). 

The win for Fox keeps their Pool C hopes alive even though they are hanging on by a thread. Two wins against #1 Linfield certainly helps their resume to go along with being 20 miles away from the regional. IMO this win today should move them ahead of PLU in the rankings.

So far it appears that the top 3 spots have been locked up for the Regional. Linfield, Cal Lu, and Trinity were predicted to fill those spots since the preseason and have stayed true to form. Should be an exciting Regional with these 3 heavyweights leading the charge.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 05, 2014, 08:17:52 AM
I will be interested to see how they seed the teams.  Assuming the seeding is like the rankings, I hope the committee seeds #4,5,6 in the region to provide new matchups.  If there is a Pool C from NWC, I hope they dont play Linfield game 1, same with the ASC winner and Trinity, etc.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2014, 10:20:42 AM
The only place you don't want to be is the 6th seed to face Linfield out of the gate. That said you have to beat them to get through the Regional so bring it on.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2014, 06:54:51 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2014, 10:20:42 AM
The only place you don't want to be is the 6th seed to face Linfield out of the gate. That said you have to beat them to get through the Regional so bring it on.
Unless you think that your #1 (even against their #1) is the best pitcher to face Linfield!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on September 29, 2014, 01:09:30 PM
After speculation last season, it now indeed looks like the NWC will join the rest of the region with a conference tournament for the upcoming season.  PLU has the dates for the tourney up on their 2015 schedule - April 25th and 26th, which given that's only two days of games, indicates the top four teams in conference standings will qualify?

Overall, I'm happy to see this.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on December 23, 2014, 01:37:33 AM
Quote from: Whatagame on September 29, 2014, 01:09:30 PM
After speculation last season, it now indeed looks like the NWC will join the rest of the region with a conference tournament for the upcoming season.  PLU has the dates for the tourney up on their 2015 schedule - April 25th and 26th, which given that's only two days of games, indicates the top four teams in conference standings will qualify?

Overall, I'm happy to see this.

Crying shame, IMO.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on December 23, 2014, 01:06:34 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on December 23, 2014, 01:37:33 AM
Quote from: Whatagame on September 29, 2014, 01:09:30 PM
After speculation last season, it now indeed looks like the NWC will join the rest of the region with a conference tournament for the upcoming season.  PLU has the dates for the tourney up on their 2015 schedule - April 25th and 26th, which given that's only two days of games, indicates the top four teams in conference standings will qualify?

Overall, I'm happy to see this.

Crying shame, IMO.

Does this mean we get to start talking about baseball?!

I am a fan of the conference tourney. It gives the top teams a chance to boost their resume against other top teams (even though the NWC is an underrated conference and they shouldn't need to pander :'() And I think it increases the chance of getting two teams into the regionals. For example, if PLU wins the conference regular season and Linfield wins the conference tournament, ideally they would both get in. (Yes, I think those are the teams to beat in the NWC this year.)

I just hope this helps keep 6 teams in the West this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on December 24, 2014, 03:10:01 PM
Here are the West teams in the Collegiate Baseball's list

NCAA Div. III Pre-Season Poll
  Rank School (2014 Record)   Points

  1. Wisconsin-Whitewater (44-7)   273
  2. Emory, GA (38-13)   270
  3. St. Thomas, MN (39-9)   268
4. Linfield, OR (37-9)   265
  5. Cortland St., NY (36-10)   261
  6. Salisbury, MD (37-9)   258
  7. Southern Maine (37-15)   255
8. California Lutheran (36-10)   253
  9. Concordia-Chicago, IL (39-7)   250
10. Marietta, OH (30-16)   248
11. Webster, MO (37-7)   245
12. Trinity, TX (33-10)   243
13. Rowan, NJ (31-12)   241
14. Wisc.-Stevens Point (32-13)   238
15. Kean, NJ (35-14)   235
16. Case Western Reserve, OH (34-12)   231
17. Eastern Connecticut St. (32-9)   229
18. Buena Vista, IA (37-9)   226
19. Birmingham-Southern, AL (35-12)   224
20. Shenandoah, VA (33-11)   220
21. Tufts, MA (34-9)   218
22. Baldwin Wallace, OH (30-20)   216
23. Amherst, MA (30-11)   213
24. Bridgewater, VA (36-14)   210
25. Adrian, MI (33-15)   208
26. Wesleyan, CT (31-12)   206
27. Endicott, MA (34-16)   202
28. Moravian, PA (32-12)   200
29. George Fox, OR (28-12)   196
30. Heidelberg, OH (31-13)   193
  Also Receiving Votes: St. John Fisher, NY (31-11), Rhodes, TN (33-17), Gettysburg, PA (33-8), Widener, PA (33-13), Ithaca, NY (26-10), MIT (27-15), Rutgers-Camden, NJ (30-13), Chapman, CA (30-13), Washington-St. Louis, MO (28-16), La Roche, PA (31-15), Rose-Hulman, IN (29-18), Worcester State, MA (25-17), Johns Hopkins, MD (22-18), SUNY-Old Westbury, NY (20-22), Oswego State, NY (21-13), Manchester, IN (26-17), Saint Joseph's, ME (30-15), Union, NY (26-12-1), Bethel, MN (23-12), Concordia, TX (31-14), Montclair St. (22-18), DeSales, PA (27-16), Haverford, PA (23-20), Wheaton, MA (27-16-1), Penn State Erie Behrend, PA (30-14), Redlands, CA (15-23), Keystone , PA (27-14), Misericordia, PA (31-15-1), Piedmont, GA (25-14), Rochester, NY (25-16), Anderson, IN (26-15). 
xxxxxxxxxSource: Collegiate Baseball
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on December 28, 2014, 07:48:11 PM
Looking forward for the upcoming D3-West Region season.  Once we see final rosters and who stayed or transferred in, I'll have better idea of SCIAC.   It's good to see Cal Lu so high up in pre-season polls.  I know they lost two top starters and Roth out of bullpen, but should return most their offense. 

Looking forward to 2015!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on December 29, 2014, 10:57:37 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on December 24, 2014, 03:10:01 PM
Here are the West teams in the Collegiate Baseball's list

NCAA Div. III Pre-Season Poll
  Rank School (2014 Record)   Points

  1. Wisconsin-Whitewater (44-7)   273
  2. Emory, GA (38-13)   270
  3. St. Thomas, MN (39-9)   268
4. Linfield, OR (37-9)   265
  5. Cortland St., NY (36-10)   261
  6. Salisbury, MD (37-9)   258
  7. Southern Maine (37-15)   255
8. California Lutheran (36-10)   253
  9. Concordia-Chicago, IL (39-7)   250
10. Marietta, OH (30-16)   248
11. Webster, MO (37-7)   245
12. Trinity, TX (33-10)   243
13. Rowan, NJ (31-12)   241
14. Wisc.-Stevens Point (32-13)   238
15. Kean, NJ (35-14)   235
16. Case Western Reserve, OH (34-12)   231
17. Eastern Connecticut St. (32-9)   229
18. Buena Vista, IA (37-9)   226
19. Birmingham-Southern, AL (35-12)   224
20. Shenandoah, VA (33-11)   220
21. Tufts, MA (34-9)   218
22. Baldwin Wallace, OH (30-20)   216
23. Amherst, MA (30-11)   213
24. Bridgewater, VA (36-14)   210
25. Adrian, MI (33-15)   208
26. Wesleyan, CT (31-12)   206
27. Endicott, MA (34-16)   202
28. Moravian, PA (32-12)   200
29. George Fox, OR (28-12)   196
30. Heidelberg, OH (31-13)   193
  Also Receiving Votes: St. John Fisher, NY (31-11), Rhodes, TN (33-17), Gettysburg, PA (33-8), Widener, PA (33-13), Ithaca, NY (26-10), MIT (27-15), Rutgers-Camden, NJ (30-13), Chapman, CA (30-13), Washington-St. Louis, MO (28-16), La Roche, PA (31-15), Rose-Hulman, IN (29-18), Worcester State, MA (25-17), Johns Hopkins, MD (22-18), SUNY-Old Westbury, NY (20-22), Oswego State, NY (21-13), Manchester, IN (26-17), Saint Joseph's, ME (30-15), Union, NY (26-12-1), Bethel, MN (23-12), Concordia, TX (31-14), Montclair St. (22-18), DeSales, PA (27-16), Haverford, PA (23-20), Wheaton, MA (27-16-1), Penn State Erie Behrend, PA (30-14), Redlands, CA (15-23), Keystone , PA (27-14), Misericordia, PA (31-15-1), Piedmont, GA (25-14), Rochester, NY (25-16), Anderson, IN (26-15). 
xxxxxxxxxSource: Collegiate Baseball

West only got 4 teams into the 2014 west regional playoffs last year. Will they get 6 in 2015? Has been tough over the past few years for the West to get the Post season Pool C bids. Will Chapman ever get back into the playoffs. The Post-Tereschuk era has not produced any trips to the regionals or to Appleton for Chapman. NWC conference now has a conference tournament to determine their Pool A bid just like the SCIAC, ASC, and SCAC.

Based upon the 2014 roster, Chapman returns 6 of the 9 top hitters but lose 4 of 6 their top pitchers based on innings pitched.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on December 30, 2014, 12:08:58 PM
Crash Davis is in the house!

I have not looked over rosters in detail, but I know Linfield lost a lot of bats, programs like them always retool and I believe they have three solid pitchers returning. I think CLU lost a lot of pitching and hitting so I doubt they will stay a top ten team. I am not sure about the rest of the SCIAC and NWest. In the SCAC, TLU lost a lot, Southwestern and Centenary were young last year and should be greatly improved. TU only lost one significant pitcher, but he had the highest ERA on the team so they should be very strong pitching wise, they lost some big bats and need to retool up the middle, however they should be a Regional team just with their pitching. UTT was young last year and LeT looks like they could emerge. Concordia was also young and could come back also. The NWest tournament gives them the opportunity to place two teams, and I think the ASC could place two teams but I am not sure about the SCAC and SCIAC. A lot will depend on how the second place teams in each division develop and what happens in the conference tournaments.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on December 31, 2014, 01:15:31 AM
I believe the NWC has deserved 2 teams over the past few years but a weak SOS kills them sometimes. Cal Tech kills the SOS for SCIAC teams. Maybe a new team will rise to appear in the West Regional outside the normal teams that just seem to reload. In recent years Linfield has dominated the NWC. Cal Lu, Pomona and Chapman have been the teams in recent years out of the SCIAC. Trinity seems to have dominated the SCAC over the past few years. Different teams seem to come out of the ASC.

I would really like to see 6 teams from the WEST make the West Regional BUT I doubt it will happen again in 2015. It is difficult for West Teams to have high enough SOS to get the Pool C bids.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 21, 2015, 08:26:28 AM
West Teams.

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   UW-Whitewater (22)   44-7   620   1
2   St. Thomas (3)   39-9   564   3
3   Emory   38-13   556   2
4   Linfield   37-9   527   6
5   Cortland State   36-10   501   5
6   Salisbury   37-9   446   7
7   Southern Maine   37-15   391   4
8   Webster   37-7   375   9
9   Concordia-Chicago   39-7   350   10
10   Cal Lutheran   36-10   343   14
11   Kean   35-14   343   12
12   UW-Stevens Point   32-13   329   11
13   Marietta   30-16   279   25
14   Rowan   33-12   271   15
15   Case Western Reserve   34-12   269   13
16   Trinity (Texas)   33-10   235   17
17   Shenandoah   33-11   226   16
18   Birmingham-Southern   35-12   209   20
19   Eastern Connecticut   32-9   189   18
20   Baldwin Wallace   30-20   188   8
21   Bridgewater (Va.)   36-14   96   19
22   Tufts   34-9   80   24
23   Adrian   33-15   72   22
24   Buena Vista   37-9   69   21
25   Misericordia   31-15-1   59    -


Others receiving votes: Endicott 53, Wesleyan (Conn.) 33, Rhodes 22, Widener 21, La Roche 20, Heidelberg 19, Ithaca 16, Moravian 14, Amherst 12, Saint Joseph's (Me.) 10, Rose-Hulman 9, Johns Hopkins 9, St. Scholastica 7, Concordia (TX) 5, Covenant 4, Washington and Jefferson 4, Huntingdon 3, Pacific Lutheran 3, St. John Fisher 3, Millsaps 2, Castleton 2, Washington (Mo.) 2, Worcester State 2, Gettysburg 1, Manchester 1, Piedmont 1, Pomona-Pitzer 1, Salem State 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on January 21, 2015, 12:55:27 PM
Milsaps are actually in the South. When they were part of the SCAC, the conference was considered multi-region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 21, 2015, 02:59:26 PM
You are correct.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on January 21, 2015, 04:30:12 PM
I did a breakdown of the top 25 by region. (I did not include ORV) and it breaks down as follows. (if I did not make any mistakes)
1. South - 5
2. Mid East - 4
2. Midwest - 4
3. West - 3
3. Mid Atlantic - 3
3. New England - 3
4. Central - 2
5. New York - 1

Of coarse this will change through out the year.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on January 21, 2015, 06:47:50 PM
Interesting to see that West Region teams are lower across the board (minus Linfield) in the D3Baseball poll. Especially surprised that George Fox didn't get a single vote in one poll and they just missed the Top 25 in the other. But everything can change in the next few weeks.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 21, 2015, 09:43:10 PM
Not really surprising given the smaller number of D3 teams in the West. I also noticed the lack of love for GF. These early polls are always a crap shoot. Let's see what happens once teams start playing. I don't think that CLU will stay up as high as they are since they lost so much, same with Linfield, but teams like Linfield always have talent coming in behind, plus great coaching elevates everyone's games. GF is making a nice run though Texas to start the season so we will see what they are made of early, I like their boldness.  A bit surprised Chapman and Trinity are not continuing the tradition, not sure what happened there. Chapman is flying out to play one of the bottom ASC teams, I am thinking they want to pad the W/L column vs playing a quality team early, something does not make sense.

In the ASC coaches poll Concordia was picked. UTT was down, way down.

http://www.ascsports.org/news/2015/1/21/BSB_0121154636.aspx

Baseball starts in 2-3 weeks.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2015, 05:28:44 PM
Sul Ross at UDallas, 02/01 noon!

8 days 19 hours 31 minutes 16 seconds and counting!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2015, 05:31:46 PM
Actually the West Region gets a lot of respect.

We have less than 10% of the teams and yet continually have a strong representation.

We have 3 of the top 16.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on January 22, 2015, 10:58:09 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2015, 05:31:46 PM
Actually the West Region gets a lot of respect.

We have less than 10% of the teams and yet continually have a strong representation.

We have 3 of the top 16.

That is true if you go by total teams. But if you go by geography, that argument doesn't mean much. Sure there are only 4 conferences but they make up nearly 1/3rd of the country. And it includes California and Texas, 2 of the 3 (arguably) biggest baseball stats in the country. On paper, West Region teams should be better than a lot of the other regions based solely on the caliber of players they get at the D3 level.

Anyway, we are getting close to the season!

Roll 'Cats!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on January 22, 2015, 11:24:37 PM
But what type of competition do those regions have for tjose players. How many juco, and d2 programs are in Texas and California schools?

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dahlby on January 22, 2015, 11:55:37 PM
Can't speak for Texas, but Southern California must have nearly 100 JC's and 4 year schools. Needless to say,
there is a lot of completion here. Our conference has 9 schools all within a short drive of each other alone.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on January 23, 2015, 03:06:48 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on January 22, 2015, 11:24:37 PM
But what type of competition do those regions have for tjose players. How many juco, and d2 programs are in Texas and California schools?

I don't really know where I am going with these numbers, but maybe if I write them down it will make sense to me  8-)

If we break it down (these are rough estimates):

California: 85 Jucos, 10 D2, 24 D1.
Texas: 40 Jucos, 10 D2, 21 D1.
Northwest (WA + OR): 28 Jucos, 5 D2, 7 D1.

There are definitely a lot of options in California and Texas with their huge Juco populations. But I also know a lot of these kids are out of state people that go their to play ball. And I don't really know what this proves, if anything.

Have a great day everyone!



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on January 28, 2015, 02:52:04 PM
Opening Day is just around the corner :) Maybe this will give us a few things to gnaw on as we wait. Should be another exciting year in the Wild Wild West.

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2015/01/2015_previews/west-region-preview-2015
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 28, 2015, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: NWBaseballFan10 on January 28, 2015, 02:52:04 PM
Opening Day is just around the corner :) Maybe this will give us a few things to gnaw on as we wait. Should be another exciting year in the Wild Wild West.

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2015/01/2015_previews/west-region-preview-2015

I like Pomona Pitzer as a dark horse this year. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 31, 2015, 07:35:38 AM
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/ncbwad3baseballcom

Polls suggest that Linfield, Cal Lutheran, and Trinity will again be back in the regional. Does this also mean again the West will not fill their regional with 6 teams from the region.....http://www.d3baseball.com/teams/region/west

Does this mean Chapman again does not make the regional?  Chapman loses 5 of its hitters and 4 of its pitchers. Chapman has not been reloading in recent years. The post Tereschuk era has not produced any team making the Regional or trips to Appleton. A 30-13 record in 2014 in the post Pool B bid era did not get a regional bid either.

BUT a former Chapman player from the 2003 National Championship team is now a broadcaster the MLB Brewers. http://blogs.chapman.edu/2015/01/22/baseballbroadcast-alum-ascends-to-the-majors/

I was able to attend 4 West Regionals and 4 National Championship Series watching the Chapman team over a 5 year run. Memories forever along with Chapman's fans and players favorite spots in Appleton...The Wooden Nickel Sports Bar and Grill and Vince Lombardi's Steak House

Chapman today Saturday has the Alumni game in Orange, CA at Hart Park.

Will this schedule get a high SOS????? http://www.chapmanathletics.com/sports/bsb/2014-15/schedule
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on January 31, 2015, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on January 31, 2015, 07:35:38 AM
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/ncbwad3baseballcom

Polls suggest that Linfield, Cal Lutheran, and Trinity will again be back in the regional. Does this also mean again the West will not fill their regional with 6 teams from the region.....http://www.d3baseball.com/teams/region/west

Does this mean Chapman again does not make the regional?  Chapman loses 5 of its hitters and 4 of its pitchers. Chapman has not been reloading in recent years. The post Tereschuk era has not produced any team making the Regional or trips to Appleton. A 30-13 record in 2014 in the post Pool B bid era did not get a regional bid either.

BUT a former Chapman player from the 2003 National Championship team is now a broadcaster the MLB Brewers. http://blogs.chapman.edu/2015/01/22/baseballbroadcast-alum-ascends-to-the-majors/

I was able to attend 4 West Regionals and 4 National Championship Series watching the Chapman team over a 5 year run. Memories forever along with Chapman's fans and players favorite spots in Appleton...The Wooden Nickel Sports Bar and Grill and Vince Lombardi's Steak House

Chapman today Saturday has the Alumni game in Orange, CA at Hart Park.

Will this schedule get a high SOS????? http://www.chapmanathletics.com/sports/bsb/2014-15/schedule

I haven't seen a 2015 roster for Chapman but if they want to make it back, they need to reload in a major way.  I don't know if Laverty will ever be able to get Chapman back to the nationally dominant team they once were, but if so, it's not going to happen right away.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 31, 2015, 11:17:42 AM
Crash, when I get a chance I will take a look at each conference and give my opinion on the 6 who might make the West Regional.

***when will they announce it's location?

At first pass Linfield, CLU, Trinity should be there and then you have ASC conference, likely Concordia, but maybe someone else. Whether 6 teams fill the region will likely come down to the potential second place finishers in the NW, ASC or SCIAC. I don't think any of the other teams in the SCAC are Regional teams this year. (baring an upset in the conference tournament) The NW has a conference tournament and an upset there actually helps from a Regional bid point of view.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 31, 2015, 05:55:37 PM
2015 West Regional Predictions
SCAC - Trinity
SCIAC - Cal Lutheran
NWC - Linfield
ASC - TBD
Pool C bid 1 - NWC runnerup
Pool C bid 2 - SCIAC runnerup

I will update this in a few weeks.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 08, 2015, 06:26:20 PM
February 9,2015

SCIAC - Cal Lutheran, Redlands
NWC - Linfield, Williamette
ASC - Concordia
SCAC - Trinity, Texas Lutheran
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 08, 2015, 10:11:35 PM
I will give it a couple of weeks to see how the teams do to make any predictions. Linfield, CLU and Trinity seem like they are solid so far. Concordia looks to be back, Redlands is a bit of a surprise, but not sure about the level of their competition.

The East/Mid West wow
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 09, 2015, 07:24:31 PM
I will be updatung mine weekly
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 15, 2015, 08:35:49 AM
Heard yesterday that UTTyler has put in for the West Regional. 

Depending on who else has submitted an application, I would guess they have a good shot at it. Beautiful facility and field, would be a great venue.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 15, 2015, 10:14:45 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 15, 2015, 08:35:49 AM
Heard yesterday that UTTyler has put in for the West Regional. 

Depending on who else has submitted an application, I would guess they have a good shot at it. Beautiful facility and field, would be a great venue.

That would be a great place simply because it would be new.  Seems like it has been in the same 2 spots over and over (probably not, just what I feel) and this would be a good change.  Nobody in the SCIAC will host and Linfield seems to be the only option in the NWC.  No idea about the TX schools other than Concordia.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 15, 2015, 11:25:37 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 15, 2015, 10:14:45 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 15, 2015, 08:35:49 AM
Heard yesterday that UTTyler has put in for the West Regional. 

Depending on who else has submitted an application, I would guess they have a good shot at it. Beautiful facility and field, would be a great venue.

That would be a great place simply because it would be new.  Seems like it has been in the same 2 spots over and over (probably not, just what I feel) and this would be a good change.  Nobody in the SCIAC will host and Linfield seems to be the only option in the NWC.  No idea about the TX schools other than Concordia.
I have not been out there this season, so I don't know if they have proper press box facilities.

Need some help on that.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 16, 2015, 12:18:12 AM
Top Teams

NWC - Linfield, Williamette
SCIAC - Cal Lu, Redlands
ASC - Concordia, ETBU
SCAC - Texas Lutheran, Trinity
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 16, 2015, 09:04:01 AM
Ralph it is an excellent facility with enough seating and a full press box. It should be have the necessary infrastructure to support a Regional, frankly it is as nice as some D1 fields, plus it is a grass field which will be cooler than CTX field. Plenty of hotels and about 1.5 hrs from Dallas/Ft Worth airport.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/uttylerpatriots/sets/72157642492747805/


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CAK72B on February 16, 2015, 09:45:53 AM
Could there be some parity showing in the West Region this year. With many of the highly regarded teams already losing some games (Linfield although it was to an NAIA school, Trinity (TX), Concordia (TX), etc.) could this be a year with a couple surprise teams making regionals and/or a World Series appearance.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: sportsfan on February 16, 2015, 10:50:39 AM
it's early but looks like Trinity has some injuries and getting the pitching staff set up.  It was a tough two days for the Tigers and missing key players is a difference.  Trinity has great arms that so far are struggling.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on February 16, 2015, 11:18:45 AM
UT Tyler appears to play much better at home. A week ago they dropped 3 in the opening season trip down south loosing to Centennary, TU and TLU .

This past weekend at home the beat TU and won a double header against TLU.  They play Centennary again this week. So we will see if the home cooking still prevails. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 16, 2015, 01:38:47 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 16, 2015, 09:04:01 AM
Ralph it is an excellent facility with enough seating and a full press box. It should be have the necessary infrastructure to support a Regional, frankly it is as nice as some D1 fields, plus it is a grass field which will be cooler than CTX field. Plenty of hotels and about 1.5 hrs from Dallas/Ft Worth airport.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/uttylerpatriots/sets/72157642492747805/




I have been to several west regionals(4) and Tyler looks like a nice place to have it. It has never been there that I know of and I think it is a great idea. CTX, Linfield, McMurry, and Chapman are the places that have hosted over the last several years. UTT looks like a very nice place to hold the regional. Got my vote, which does not count for anything.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on February 17, 2015, 05:26:38 PM
I would love if UMHB could host one of these years. If Tyler is in the running, I dont see why UMHB couldnt be if they wanted the bid.

Dont count out UMHB as a surprise team this year. This was a young team last year that has most of the lineup returning this year. A key addition to look for is Kreece Cooper returning from injury this year. He was a stud on the mound in 2013. Can't wait to see the team kick off the season tonight at TLU.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 17, 2015, 10:28:16 PM
Quote from: dp643 on February 17, 2015, 05:26:38 PM
I would love if UMHB could host one of these years. If Tyler is in the running, I dont see why UMHB couldnt be if they wanted the bid.

Dont count out UMHB as a surprise team this year. This was a young team last year that has most of the lineup returning this year. A key addition to look for is Kreece Cooper returning from injury this year. He was a stud on the mound in 2013. Can't wait to see the team kick off the season tonight at TLU.
Another nice looking field http://www.cruathletics.com/galleries/?gallery=188
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on February 18, 2015, 05:27:51 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 15, 2015, 10:14:45 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 15, 2015, 08:35:49 AM
Heard yesterday that UTTyler has put in for the West Regional. 

Depending on who else has submitted an application, I would guess they have a good shot at it. Beautiful facility and field, would be a great venue.

That would be a great place simply because it would be new.  Seems like it has been in the same 2 spots over and over (probably not, just what I feel) and this would be a good change.  Nobody in the SCIAC will host and Linfield seems to be the only option in the NWC.  No idea about the TX schools other than Concordia.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was at Linfield again.    ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 18, 2015, 06:08:12 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 18, 2015, 05:27:51 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 15, 2015, 10:14:45 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 15, 2015, 08:35:49 AM
Heard yesterday that UTTyler has put in for the West Regional. 

Depending on who else has submitted an application, I would guess they have a good shot at it. Beautiful facility and field, would be a great venue.

That would be a great place simply because it would be new.  Seems like it has been in the same 2 spots over and over (probably not, just what I feel) and this would be a good change.  Nobody in the SCIAC will host and Linfield seems to be the only option in the NWC.  No idea about the TX schools other than Concordia.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was at Linfield again.    ;)

Well, that pretty much makes it official* that it will be in Oregon again.

*It really doesn't but WC11 is a pretty connected guy so I will take my chances on him being correct.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 19, 2015, 01:49:37 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 18, 2015, 06:08:12 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 18, 2015, 05:27:51 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 15, 2015, 10:14:45 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 15, 2015, 08:35:49 AM
Heard yesterday that UTTyler has put in for the West Regional. 

Depending on who else has submitted an application, I would guess they have a good shot at it. Beautiful facility and field, would be a great venue.

That would be a great place simply because it would be new.  Seems like it has been in the same 2 spots over and over (probably not, just what I feel) and this would be a good change.  Nobody in the SCIAC will host and Linfield seems to be the only option in the NWC.  No idea about the TX schools other than Concordia.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was at Linfield again.    ;)

Well, that pretty much makes it official* that it will be in Oregon again.

*It really doesn't but WC11 is a pretty connected guy so I will take my chances on him being correct.
Linfield make sense for several reasons to host West regional AGAIN

Nice venue
They know what their doing and have done it several times
Linfield has a great chance of making the regionals


Bad things
HUGE home field advantages for Linfield
Home cooking/No travel no hotels no bus rides or flights
Turf field experience is an advantage
Home crowd
Bad Weather gives Linfield advantages. Games could be played in Rain, Wind, Cold
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 19, 2015, 08:23:54 AM
I have been to 3 of the last Regionals and 2 of them have been at Linfield. I think it would be a mistake to put it back there again if there were another credible application. Linfield did not win because they were at home, they were the better team and they won once there and once in TX. The location is a bit problematic mostly for the lack of hotels nearby, and distance for most of the West teams, but this is made up for with the abundance of wineries.

The folks at UTT seemed to think it was coming there, but we will have to wait for the NCAA to announce something.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on February 19, 2015, 10:24:30 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 19, 2015, 08:23:54 AM
I have been to 3 of the last Regionals and 2 of them have been at Linfield. I think it would be a mistake to put it back there again if there were another credible application. Linfield did not win because they were at home, they were the better team and they won once there and once in TX. The location is a bit problematic mostly for the lack of hotels nearby, and distance for most of the West teams, but this is made up for with the abundance of wineries.

The folks at UTT seemed to think it was coming there, but we will have to wait for the NCAA to announce something.

As an added bonus, Linfield is a great location for UFO aficionados!  I don't think UTT can top that!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 19, 2015, 12:30:41 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on February 19, 2015, 10:24:30 AM

As an added bonus, Linfield is a great location for UFO aficionados!  I don't think UTT can top that!

Nope, but you only need to see it once.

.....however Tyler has one of the better BBQ places I have been.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on February 19, 2015, 01:05:03 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 18, 2015, 06:08:12 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 18, 2015, 05:27:51 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 15, 2015, 10:14:45 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 15, 2015, 08:35:49 AM
Heard yesterday that UTTyler has put in for the West Regional. 

Depending on who else has submitted an application, I would guess they have a good shot at it. Beautiful facility and field, would be a great venue.

That would be a great place simply because it would be new.  Seems like it has been in the same 2 spots over and over (probably not, just what I feel) and this would be a good change.  Nobody in the SCIAC will host and Linfield seems to be the only option in the NWC.  No idea about the TX schools other than Concordia.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was at Linfield again.    ;)

Well, that pretty much makes it official* that it will be in Oregon again.

*It really doesn't but WC11 is a pretty connected guy so I will take my chances on him being correct.

Oh no...I was just joking around.  I have ZERO idea where the regional is going to be this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on February 19, 2015, 02:23:25 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 19, 2015, 12:30:41 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on February 19, 2015, 10:24:30 AM

As an added bonus, Linfield is a great location for UFO aficionados!  I don't think UTT can top that!

Nope, but you only need to see it once.

.....however Tyler has one of the better BBQ places I have been.

I think I'd rather have BBQ than UFO parades
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on February 19, 2015, 03:46:17 PM
For what it is worth they have held the DIII regional Softball tournament at the same UTT facility that houses the baseball field. The two share the same park. The DIII softfall tourney has the same needs  hotel and logistics wise as baseball.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2015, 09:05:56 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on February 19, 2015, 02:23:25 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 19, 2015, 12:30:41 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on February 19, 2015, 10:24:30 AM

As an added bonus, Linfield is a great location for UFO aficionados!  I don't think UTT can top that!

Nope, but you only need to see it once.

.....however Tyler has one of the better BBQ places I have been.

I think I'd rather have BBQ than UFO parades

Yeah, but you haven't lived 'til you have BBQ ON a UFO! ;D
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 19, 2015, 09:55:37 PM
I have had BBQ in Abilene at a regional. I have seen the UFO parade on McMinnville. Also spent lots time at the Wooden Nickel in Appleton. It is all good when it is playoff baseball for 5 years straight
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on February 19, 2015, 11:03:57 PM
I don't really care who hosts the regional as long as six teams from the West make it this year :P
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on February 20, 2015, 03:32:22 AM
Top Records in the West

ASC - ETBU 6-2

NWC - Willimette 7-0
NWC - Linfield 7-1
NWC - Pac Lutheran 6-2

SCAC - Texas Lutheran 6-2
SCAC - Trinity - 4-2

SCIAC - Cal Lutheran 3-0
SCIAC - Redlands 5-1
SCIAC - Pomona-Pitzer 6-2
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 02, 2015, 11:09:19 PM
Top Records in the West

ASC - Concordia-Texas 10-3
NWC- Williamette 12-1
NWC- Pacific Lutheran 10-4
SCAC - Trinity 8-2
SCIAC - Cal Lutheran 8-1
SCIAC - Occidental 10-2
SCIAC - Pomona-Pitzer 11-3
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 03, 2015, 04:28:37 PM
Some major shifts happening in the West.

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   UW-Whitewater (24)   0-0   624   1
2   St. Thomas (1)   0-0   594   2
3   Cortland State   0-0   530   4
4   Salisbury   2-0   529   5
5   Cal Lutheran   8-1   442   9
6   Southern Maine   0-0   439   7
7   Kean   1-0   434   10
8   Emory   6-3   403   3
9   Concordia-Chicago   1-0   401   8
10   Birmingham-Southern   8-0   398   14
11   UW-Stevens Point   0-0   373   11
12   Marietta   0-0   372   12
13   Rowan   0-0   305   13
14   Linfield   9-5   293   6
15   Case Western Reserve   0-0   281   15
16   Trinity (Texas)   8-2   263   18
17   Shenandoah   0-0   237   17
18   Webster   1-2   172   16
19   Baldwin Wallace   0-0   151   20
20   Bridgewater (Va.)   1-0   132   21
21   Rhodes   10-2   132   25
22   Eastern Connecticut   0-1   106   19
23   Pacific Lutheran   10-4   105   23
24   Misericordia   2-0   89   24
25   Tufts   0-0   70   22
Dropped out: none

Others receiving votes: Willamette 41, Endicott 35, La Roche 24, Wesleyan (Conn.) 24, Frostburg St. 20, Randolph-Macon 17, Heidelberg 14, Adrian 13, Pomona-Pitzer 13, Moravian 9, Rose-Hulman 7, Amherst 6, Concordia (Texas) 6, Ithaca 4, Buena Vista 3, Wash. & Jeff. 3, UW-La Crosse 3, Alma 2, Huntingdon 2, Johns Hopkins 2, Concordia-Moorhead 1, Millsaps 1.

The D3baseball.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly. Full members of NCAA Division III are eligible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 03, 2015, 08:23:06 PM
Right now, it looks to be a super competitive year in the NWC, which is exciting relative to post season bids because of the inaugural NWC Conference Tournament (4 top teams are in)

Six teams look to be in play right now (Willamette, UPS, Linfield, PLU, Whitworth and GFU) The remaining three teams have lineups that have already proven to be able to take games from the upper tier, making weekend sweeps difficult. 

The UPS offensive outburst versus all three Linfield starters was very, very impressive (getting 10 hits and 6 runs off Haddeland in 7 IP was pretty impressive)  Nobody wants to face Dan Scheibe from Whitworth right now - NASTY, best D3 stuff I've personally seen in the conference, recently, asides from Lubking.

Really is going to be a great season to the end
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 04, 2015, 01:01:11 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 03, 2015, 04:28:37 PM
Some major shifts happening in the West.

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   UW-Whitewater (24)   0-0   624   1
2   St. Thomas (1)   0-0   594   2
3   Cortland State   0-0   530   4
4   Salisbury   2-0   529   5
5   Cal Lutheran   8-1   442   9
6   Southern Maine   0-0   439   7
7   Kean   1-0   434   10
8   Emory   6-3   403   3
9   Concordia-Chicago   1-0   401   8
10   Birmingham-Southern   8-0   398   14
11   UW-Stevens Point   0-0   373   11
12   Marietta   0-0   372   12
13   Rowan   0-0   305   13
14   Linfield   9-5   293   6
15   Case Western Reserve   0-0   281   15
16   Trinity (Texas)   8-2   263   18
17   Shenandoah   0-0   237   17
18   Webster   1-2   172   16
19   Baldwin Wallace   0-0   151   20
20   Bridgewater (Va.)   1-0   132   21
21   Rhodes   10-2   132   25
22   Eastern Connecticut   0-1   106   19
23   Pacific Lutheran   10-4   105   23
24   Misericordia   2-0   89   24
25   Tufts   0-0   70   22
Dropped out: none

Others receiving votes: Willamette 41, Endicott 35, La Roche 24, Wesleyan (Conn.) 24, Frostburg St. 20, Randolph-Macon 17, Heidelberg 14, Adrian 13, Pomona-Pitzer 13, Moravian 9, Rose-Hulman 7, Amherst 6, Concordia (Texas) 6, Ithaca 4, Buena Vista 3, Wash. & Jeff. 3, UW-La Crosse 3, Alma 2, Huntingdon 2, Johns Hopkins 2, Concordia-Moorhead 1, Millsaps 1.

The D3baseball.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly. Full members of NCAA Division III are eligible.
With 5 losses not sure how Linfield remains in TOP 25.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on March 04, 2015, 02:10:07 AM
I can see Linfield in the top 25, but not at 14th. Even as a biased Cat fan I'm not sure I can agree with that. I would have them in the 20's right behind PLU at this point.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 04, 2015, 08:03:08 AM
There will continue to be a some significant shifting around in the rankings as teams get in more significant games. CLU has not been tested yet, and there are other top 10 teams who have not even played a game yet. If Willamette keeps it up they will break in to the top 25 next week. As the season moves on ranking will be based on performance not reputation. I just flipped over to Massey and they don't have all of the games logged yet. In 4 weeks we should have a much better view of the top West teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on March 04, 2015, 02:07:55 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 04, 2015, 01:01:11 AM
With 5 losses not sure how Linfield remains in TOP 25.

I'd note that one of those losses is to a non-DIII team (Corban), two of the losses are against a team they split with (2-2 vs. UPS), and the other two are to another top 25 team. Granted, two of their wins are also against NAIA Oregon Tech, so really they're a 7-4 team. Clearly a disappointing start given the tremendous success of the last few years, but I'll take it with a grain of salt considering how early it is and how much stronger a schedule they've played than a lot of the other teams with better records in the West. I think the losses to UPS and PLU may be more of a testament to the strength of those teams than to the flaws of Linfield.

Regardless, the NWC is shaping up to be a strong, competitive conference this year. While it will make for an exciting tournament (as noted by Whatagame), there's a chance it harms the conference by giving each team a few too many L's for an at-large bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 04, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
Looks like not a lot of the ranked West teams have had too tough of a schedule so far.  I whipped this up real quick and I am sure there are mistakes, but it gives an idea of how it all looks.  *I only took into account D3 games, but I counted all games in opponents records (I know, not great, but I didn't have a lot of time to do this.


Ranking   School   Win %   Opp Rec   Opp Win %
5   CLU 8-1   0.889   17-28   0.378
14   Linfield 7-4   0.636   27-23   0.54
16   Trinity 7-2   0.778   26-39   0.4
23   PLU 7-3   0.7   22-24   0.478
RV   Willamette 12-1   923   10 40   0.2
RV   Pomona 11-3   786   27-43   0.385
RV   Concordia (TX) 10-3   0.769   23-43   0.348
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 05:17:06 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 04, 2015, 01:01:11 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 03, 2015, 04:28:37 PM
Some major shifts happening in the West.

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   UW-Whitewater (24)   0-0   624   1
2   St. Thomas (1)   0-0   594   2
3   Cortland State   0-0   530   4
4   Salisbury   2-0   529   5
5   Cal Lutheran   8-1   442   9
6   Southern Maine   0-0   439   7
7   Kean   1-0   434   10
8   Emory   6-3   403   3
9   Concordia-Chicago   1-0   401   8
10   Birmingham-Southern   8-0   398   14
11   UW-Stevens Point   0-0   373   11
12   Marietta   0-0   372   12
13   Rowan   0-0   305   13
14   Linfield   9-5   293   6
15   Case Western Reserve   0-0   281   15
16   Trinity (Texas)   8-2   263   18
17   Shenandoah   0-0   237   17
18   Webster   1-2   172   16
19   Baldwin Wallace   0-0   151   20
20   Bridgewater (Va.)   1-0   132   21
21   Rhodes   10-2   132   25
22   Eastern Connecticut   0-1   106   19
23   Pacific Lutheran   10-4   105   23
24   Misericordia   2-0   89   24
25   Tufts   0-0   70   22
Dropped out: none

Others receiving votes: Willamette 41, Endicott 35, La Roche 24, Wesleyan (Conn.) 24, Frostburg St. 20, Randolph-Macon 17, Heidelberg 14, Adrian 13, Pomona-Pitzer 13, Moravian 9, Rose-Hulman 7, Amherst 6, Concordia (Texas) 6, Ithaca 4, Buena Vista 3, Wash. & Jeff. 3, UW-La Crosse 3, Alma 2, Huntingdon 2, Johns Hopkins 2, Concordia-Moorhead 1, Millsaps 1.

The D3baseball.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly. Full members of NCAA Division III are eligible.
With 5 losses not sure how Linfield remains in TOP 25.

Yeah, but they have NINE more wins than 12 other teams in the top 25! ;D

Think of it as essentially another preseason poll, since much of the country hasn't yet thrown out the first pitch.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 04, 2015, 07:12:19 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 05:17:06 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 04, 2015, 01:01:11 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 03, 2015, 04:28:37 PM
Some major shifts happening in the West.

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   UW-Whitewater (24)   0-0   624   1
2   St. Thomas (1)   0-0   594   2
3   Cortland State   0-0   530   4
4   Salisbury   2-0   529   5
5   Cal Lutheran   8-1   442   9
6   Southern Maine   0-0   439   7
7   Kean   1-0   434   10
8   Emory   6-3   403   3
9   Concordia-Chicago   1-0   401   8
10   Birmingham-Southern   8-0   398   14
11   UW-Stevens Point   0-0   373   11
12   Marietta   0-0   372   12
13   Rowan   0-0   305   13
14   Linfield   9-5   293   6
15   Case Western Reserve   0-0   281   15
16   Trinity (Texas)   8-2   263   18
17   Shenandoah   0-0   237   17
18   Webster   1-2   172   16
19   Baldwin Wallace   0-0   151   20
20   Bridgewater (Va.)   1-0   132   21
21   Rhodes   10-2   132   25
22   Eastern Connecticut   0-1   106   19
23   Pacific Lutheran   10-4   105   23
24   Misericordia   2-0   89   24
25   Tufts   0-0   70   22
Dropped out: none

Others receiving votes: Willamette 41, Endicott 35, La Roche 24, Wesleyan (Conn.) 24, Frostburg St. 20, Randolph-Macon 17, Heidelberg 14, Adrian 13, Pomona-Pitzer 13, Moravian 9, Rose-Hulman 7, Amherst 6, Concordia (Texas) 6, Ithaca 4, Buena Vista 3, Wash. & Jeff. 3, UW-La Crosse 3, Alma 2, Huntingdon 2, Johns Hopkins 2, Concordia-Moorhead 1, Millsaps 1.

The D3baseball.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly. Full members of NCAA Division III are eligible.
With 5 losses not sure how Linfield remains in TOP 25.

Yeah, but they have NINE more wins than 12 other teams in the top 25! ;D

Think of it as essentially another preseason poll, since much of the country hasn't yet thrown out the first pitch.
But Linfield is sitting in 6th place in NWC conference right now with a 2-4 in conference record.  ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2015, 09:16:30 AM
This season has been very unpredictable.  The winter weather will play havoc with everyone.

I don't think that teams will round into shape until late in the season!  This may be a season where a team gets hot and runs the table (e.g. Illinois Wesleyan back in 2010.)

I cannot figure out the ASC. I think that the conference has too much balance for us to make an opinion.  That conference has always fared competitively in the Regionals (#2 seed LeTU went 1-2 last year) and yet the mid-rung teams in the conference have been "just a hair" shy of knocking off the ASC tourney champ over the course of the season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 08, 2015, 03:11:11 PM
Both Linfield and Chapman sit in 6th place in their conferences today. Who would have thought this a few years ago.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 10, 2015, 10:24:15 AM
Week of 3/9; No change: CLU, Moving up: Trinity, PLU, P-P, UTT Moving down: Linfield, Williamette
Enough to fill out a Regional?

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   UW-Whitewater (22)   0-0   612   1
2   St. Thomas (1)   0-0   587   2
3   Cortland State   4-0   560   3
4   Salisbury   2-0   527   4
5   Cal Lutheran   12-1   499   5
6   Kean   4-0   487   7
7   Birmingham-Southern (2)   11-0   471   10
8   Southern Maine   0-0   453   6
9   Emory   7-3   392   8
10   UW-Stevens Point   0-0   382   11
11   Trinity (Texas)   12-2   351   16
12   Shenandoah   0-0   302   17
13   Concordia-Chicago   5-3   269   9
14   Rhodes   13-2   257   21
15   Case Western Reserve   1-1   250   15
16   Marietta   1-1   242   12
17   Baldwin Wallace   1-0   228   19
18   Bridgewater (Va.)   4-1   175   20
19   Pacific Lutheran   12-5   136   23
20   Misericordia   6-1   124   24
21   Linfield   11-6   90   14
22   Randolph-Macon   8-1   80   rv
23   Rowan   1-3   79   13
24   Eastern Connecticut   0-1   72   22
25   Frostburg State   9-0   71   rv
Dropped out: No. 18. Webster, No. 25 Tufts.

Others receiving votes: Moravian 55, Tufts 53, Endicott 36, Webster 33, Wesleyan (Conn.) 32, Heidelberg 31, Willamette 31, La Roche 27, Pomona-Pitzer 27, Concordia (Texas) 17, Huntingdon 15, Rutgers-Camden 9, Millsaps 9, Manchester 8, Otterbein 7, Amherst 3, Ithaca 3, UW-La Crosse, Concordia-Moorhead 3, Alma 2, Augustana (Ill.) 2, Johns Hopkins 2, Elizabethtown 1, Piedmont 1, Rose-Hulman 1, Texas-Tyler 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 11, 2015, 12:45:26 AM
ASC
@Concordia-TX 12-4
Texas-Tyler 10-5

NWC
@Willamette 13-3
#19 Pacific Lutheran 12-5

SCAC
#11 Trinity (Texas) 12-2
Texas Lutheran 11-6

SCIAC
#5 Cal Lutheran 13-1
@Pomona-Pitzer 13-3

@Got votes in poll
NOTE #21 Linfield with 6 losses still in Top 25
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: D O.C. on March 11, 2015, 07:19:34 AM
Hope this isn't repetavtive....

http://m.mlb.com/nyy/video/topic/11061776/v38598283/day-in-the-life-scott-brosius/?c_id=nyy
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 11, 2015, 08:54:59 AM
Great piece thanks DOC, thanks! It is no accident that Linfield is such a solid program.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 11, 2015, 09:31:17 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 11, 2015, 07:19:34 AM
Hope this isn't repetavtive....

http://m.mlb.com/nyy/video/topic/11061776/v38598283/day-in-the-life-scott-brosius/?c_id=nyy
Nice piece. Great coach, great school, great city, great college, great baseball. Love my 2 trips there. Weather .....Ok not everything is perfect.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on March 12, 2015, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 11, 2015, 09:31:17 PM
Weather .....Ok not everything is perfect.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fawesomegifs.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fdead-horse.gif&hash=fdab294c2b3f23844c6eed058738cbd071de5926)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 16, 2015, 09:30:02 PM
MARCH 16, 2015

ASC
Concordia(TX) 15-4
Texas-Tyler 13-5

NWC
Williamette 13-4
Pacific Lutheran 14-6

SCAC
Trinity(TX) 14-4
Texas-Lutheran 13-7

SCIAC
Cal-Lutheran 14-4
La Verne 13-6

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 17, 2015, 08:30:10 AM
#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   UW-Whitewater (14)   0-0   588   1
2   St. Thomas (6)   5-0   583   2
3   Cortland State (2)   9-0   574   3
4   Salisbury   5-0   549   4
5   Birmingham-Southern (3)   14-0   532   7
6   Kean   8-1   479   6
7   Cal Lutheran   14-4   403   5
8   Rhodes   17-3   388   14
9   Baldwin Wallace   8-0   381   17
10   Emory   12-5   367   9
11   Southern Maine   5-2   330   8
12   Trinity (Texas)   14-4   316   11
13   UW-Stevens Point   3-2   299   10
14   Shenandoah   4-2   266   12
15   Randolph-Macon   11-1   247   22
16   Frostburg State   12-0   221   25
17   Misericordia   7-1   182   20
18   Marietta   6-4   136   16
19   Bridgewater (Va.)   10-3   124   18
20   Heidelberg   7-1   120   rv
21   Pacific Lutheran   14-6   91   19
22   Webster   6-4   83   rv
23   Linfield   14-7   82   21
24   Johns Hopkins  3-0  78   rv
25   Case Western Reserve   4-4   76   15
Dropped out: No. 13 Concordia-Chicago, No. 23 Rowan, No. 24 Eastern Connecticut State

Others receiving votes: Concordia-Chicago 66, Concordia (Texas) 53, UW-La Crosse 46, Wesleyan (Conn.) 42, Catholic 41, Otterbein 37, Tufts 31, Buena Vista 30, Augustana (Ill.) 28, Pomona-Pitzer 26, Concordia-Moorhead 26, Wartburg 24, Ohio Northern 24, Washington (Mo.) 23, Rutgers-Camden 22, Millsaps 20, Adrian 11, La Roche 11, Willamette 10, Rowan 8, Huntingdon 5, Trinity (Conn.) 4, Mary Washington 4, Texas-Tyler 4, Endicott 4, Eastern Conn. St. 3, Southwestern (Tex.) 2, Mass.-Dartmouth 1.


Reformatted for easier reading. Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on March 22, 2015, 09:56:33 PM
At this point, Pool C bids are looking suspect for West-region teams. The NWC and SCIAC continue to beat up on one another, which is removing either conference from the Pool C discussion. Trinity (TX) and Concordia (TX) appear to be the top 2 teams in the West thus far. Aside from them, everything else looks pretty muddy in the West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 23, 2015, 09:45:06 AM
I agree with NWest it looks very muddled in the West right now.

Trinity split with TLU yesterday in schizophrentic fashion. It played one of the most uninspired a pathetic games I have seen from them in 4 years in game 1, they frankly made a good pitcher look great. Then Scannell juggled the line up and they actually seemed to be interested in playing a baseball game. Good news is that they got to work in some arms and the pitching looks like it has even more depth than I thought. They will have plenty of pitching come a Regional (if they get there). The main concern with this team is whether they can raise their level of defensive play and hit well enough in a tight contest, and probably more importantly -  if they can come out and compete in every game they play, so far they have not shown they can do this consistently.

I think we will have a better idea what kind of team Trinity is after the next two weeks. They have a third game vs TLU tonight, then a weekend series with SWest, then H-S, MHB and a pair of games vs Concordia.  The problem they have is if they get knocked off in their conference tournament I am not sure if their SOS will hold up (as Crash has pointed out a number of times) Like I said we will know more about them in two weeks. The Concordia games look interesting for both teams and it is nice they get to play each other twice in three days. I wish the ASC played a few less conference games so the SCAC and ASC could get some more games in between them.



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tony_baldwin on March 23, 2015, 10:07:29 AM
CTX has won eight straight and 14 of their last 15.

Cameron Cox has been dominant this season. He's 6-0 with a 1.37 ERA and 44 strikeouts in 46 innings. Cox has allowed just one run (unearned) in his last 34.2 innings, and he has three shutouts and four complete games in his last four starts.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on March 23, 2015, 10:30:56 AM
Cox is looking like an All American.

I remember him being effective coming out of the pen when he was at the University of Texas with Augie 3 years ago.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 23, 2015, 01:39:28 PM
Quote from: BamColt on March 23, 2015, 10:30:56 AM
Cox is looking like an All American.

I remember him being effective coming out of the pen when he was at the University of Texas with Augie 3 years ago.

Using him in the 7 inning game (which is a TERRIBLE league decision) has been pretty nice.  Getting a CG out of him every time he goes out there is a nice way to save arms in a double header.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 24, 2015, 12:17:01 PM
Looks like teams better plan on winning their conference, if they want to make a Regional. We could see two teams flown in this year if this continues. CTX looks like the best team in the West right now.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on March 24, 2015, 03:25:21 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 24, 2015, 12:17:01 PM
Looks like teams better plan on winning their conference, if they want to make a Regional. We could see two teams flown in this year if this continues. CTX looks like the best team in the West right now.

Last season Pool C contenders CTX (31-14), Chapman (30-13), and George Fox (28-12) were left home. Odds of a Pool C contender getting a spot this year look pretty bleak based on win/loss records thus far and how the conference schedules are lined up. The NWC is going to continue to beat up on one another, ASC doesn't have a clear-cut #2 who could make a case, SCIAC could have a team in the running as long as they don't beat up on one another too much, and the SCAC has Trinity and/or TLU at the moment (sorry Southwestern).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 25, 2015, 02:15:45 AM
Quote from: NWBaseballFan10 on March 24, 2015, 03:25:21 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 24, 2015, 12:17:01 PM
Looks like teams better plan on winning their conference, if they want to make a Regional. We could see two teams flown in this year if this continues. CTX looks like the best team in the West right now.

Last season Pool C contenders CTX (31-14), Chapman (30-13), and George Fox (28-12) were left home. Odds of a Pool C contender getting a spot this year look pretty bleak based on win/loss records thus far and how the conference schedules are lined up. The NWC is going to continue to beat up on one another, ASC doesn't have a clear-cut #2 who could make a case, SCIAC could have a team in the running as long as they don't beat up on one another too much, and the SCAC has Trinity and/or TLU at the moment (sorry Southwestern).
Only Pool A for ASC, SCIAC, SCAC, NWC

SCIAC has 3 teams at the bottom that will kill the SOS for a Pool C team from the SCIAC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Richard Hamstocks on March 25, 2015, 10:37:51 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 25, 2015, 02:15:45 AM
Only Pool A for ASC, SCIAC, SCAC, NWC

SCIAC has 3 teams at the bottom that will kill the SOS for a Pool C team from the SCIAC.
Conference wins are pretty much a wash in terms of SOS (if every team only played a balanced conference schedule, every teams SOS would be .500).
Cal Tech is 2-1 against non-conference D3 opponents (and can be at worst 2-2 depending on MIT this week), so it's really just 2 teams killing SOS.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on March 26, 2015, 02:43:09 PM
It's unfortunate the SCAC and ASC don't get the respect some of the teams in the North get.
Are the voters and committee located more in the northern regions?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2015, 04:39:30 PM
Quote from: BamColt on March 26, 2015, 02:43:09 PM
It's unfortunate the SCAC and ASC don't get the respect some of the teams in the North get.
Are the voters and committee located more in the northern regions?
Voters come from all of the 8 regions.

They also consider the ASC and SCAC in their past performances.

The ASC has 2 losses by CTX in Nationals, 2002.  That is all. Only one regional champion in nearly 15 years.

We are good but there are plenty of other schools that are comparable to the ASC and SCAC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CAK72B on March 26, 2015, 05:10:14 PM
It all depends on the timing. For a while it seemed like it was a Chapman or a Linfield team making it out of the West. Even though maybe some of those SCAC/ASC teams were better than most in the country, the only results people tend to look at are World Series appearances. Without a clearly dominant team this year, maybe it could be a year for one of the Texas schools to make some noise...although we have been saying that mainly about CTX/Trinity for years yet some reason...most notably Trinity...has not been able to get that last win in the regional. Until other schools in the West are able to show quality performances in the WS, people may look down a little on the rest of the West schools. Fun fact: Since 2000, Geroge Fox is the only other West region school to make it to the final game of the World Series...which they won.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2015, 05:44:18 PM
Great post CAK72B.

Welcome to the Boards. Keep posting.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 26, 2015, 06:35:06 PM
Quote from: CAK72B on March 26, 2015, 05:10:14 PM
. Fun fact: Since 2000, Geroge Fox is the only other West region school to make it to the final game of the World Series...which they won.

uhh what about Linfield two years ago.....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CAK72B on March 26, 2015, 07:26:20 PM
108,

The key word there is "only other" referring to Chapman and Linfield
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on March 26, 2015, 08:09:13 PM
Quote from: CAK72B on March 26, 2015, 07:26:20 PM
108,

The key word there is "only other" referring to Chapman and Linfield
2011 Chapman - Marrietta
http://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/2011/game14-chapman-marietta
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on March 30, 2015, 12:40:13 PM
I keep waiting for things to clear up in the West, but each weekend leaves me with more questions and doubts than the previous. The only team/seed that I would feel relatively confident in is CTX as the #1. Beyond that, it's a total crapshoot.

1. CTX (20-5)

Others in Consideration:

TLU (18-8)
Whitworth (19-8)
Trinity (17-8)
Pacific Lutheran (19-8)
The SCIAC's top 5 teams (Cal Lu, Chapman, LV, PP, Oxy)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 30, 2015, 01:03:09 PM
Quote from: NWBaseballFan10 on March 30, 2015, 12:40:13 PM
I keep waiting for things to clear up in the West, but each weekend leaves me with more questions and doubts than the previous. The only team/seed that I would feel relatively confident in is CTX as the #1. Beyond that, it's a total crapshoot.

1. CTX (20-5)

Others in Consideration:

TLU (18-8)
Whitworth (19-8)
Trinity (17-8)
Pacific Lutheran (19-8)
The SCIAC's top 5 teams (Cal Lu, Chapman, LV, PP, Oxy)

LaVerne?  After dropping 3 of 4 to Pacific?  I would still have Linfield in that mix and remove LaVerne and Oxy at this point.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on March 30, 2015, 01:22:23 PM
Realistically I only see Cal Lu, Chapman, and Pomona-Pitzer as teams worth discussing in the SCIAC. The other 2 are merely there considering their current standings in conference play. I would expect LV to drop quite a bit over the next few weeks with games against Oxy, Cal Lu, and Chapman coming up. But with the way this season has been going, it is hard to discount anyone at this point. Everything can and will likely change once the conference tournaments roll around. The only sure thing appears to be that the West's chances of having 6 teams in the Regional is looking pretty slim.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 30, 2015, 03:01:17 PM
Quote from: NWBaseballFan10 on March 30, 2015, 01:22:23 PM
Realistically I only see Cal Lu, Chapman, and Pomona-Pitzer as teams worth discussing in the SCIAC. The other 2 are merely there considering their current standings in conference play. I would expect LV to drop quite a bit over the next few weeks with games against Oxy, Cal Lu, and Chapman coming up. But with the way this season has been going, it is hard to discount anyone at this point. Everything can and will likely change once the conference tournaments roll around. The only sure thing appears to be that the West's chances of having 6 teams in the Regional is looking pretty slim.

Agreed.  Chapman has really played well lately and Pomona has been solid all year.  Cal Lu is struggling bad right now but they can make it up with a series win this weekend against Pomona, or they can fall even further behind.  It's all about the regional rankings and what they say, not the rankings from this site.  Although CLU has dropped some games lately, they also have 2 wins against Chapman, 2 against Whitworth.....well, that's about it as I just looked at their schedule.  Not pretty.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on March 30, 2015, 03:25:09 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on March 30, 2015, 01:03:09 PM
Quote from: NWBaseballFan10 on March 30, 2015, 12:40:13 PM
I keep waiting for things to clear up in the West, but each weekend leaves me with more questions and doubts than the previous. The only team/seed that I would feel relatively confident in is CTX as the #1. Beyond that, it's a total crapshoot.

1. CTX (20-5)

Others in Consideration:

TLU (18-8)
Whitworth (19-8)
Trinity (17-8)
Pacific Lutheran (19-8)
The SCIAC's top 5 teams (Cal Lu, Chapman, LV, PP, Oxy)

LaVerne?  After dropping 3 of 4 to Pacific?  I would still have Linfield in that mix and remove LaVerne and Oxy at this point.

Agreed- and it's important to look at schedules going forward. ULV is 15-10 overall and their conference record looks great until you realize they still have 9 games left with Oxy, Chapman, and CLU plus the four game round robin. I'd be surprised if they reach the tournament with fewer than 15 losses, and even that would be a tall order.

Oxy, on the other hand, has ULV and CLU left, plus Willamette and the SCIAC round robin. Their 17-9 record will look very different at the end of that stretch, and I don't think they have the offense to win a majority of their games the rest of the year.

Remaining schedule is also why I'm keeping Redlands on the list in the SCIAC. The 9 overall losses for Redlands right now isn't great, but their only conference series left are six pretty much guaranteed wins (v. CMS and CIT). They've also got three against UPS, and then the four SCIAC round robin games and tournament. From what I've heard about their pitching staff and what their offensive numbers say, they can beat just about anyone and could easily go on a tear. If they can take two or three from Willamette and three or four during round robin play (neither easy, but both possible), that puts them at 28-30 wins going into the tournament. Their non-conference schedule is on the weaker end, but that many wins has to be deserving of a look right?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 30, 2015, 04:32:07 PM
It will be interesting as Trinity plays two games this weekend against CTX. Each team hosts the other for a single game.
In the ASC, CTX is 15-2 with UTT at 13-5. Those teams will play each other later in April at CTX. UTT has not played as well on the road. They dropped 3 games to a very average UTD team in Dallas.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CAK72B on March 31, 2015, 11:14:35 AM
West Teams in the Rankings:

18) CTX
19) Trinity (TX)
20) Cal Lu
RV) Linfield
RV) Pacific Lutheran
RV) Puget Sound
RV) Pomona-Pitzer
RV) Southwestern (TX)

I stated this on the Top 25 poll board but the fact that Texas Lutheran is not even receiving a single vote but Trinity is ranked in the Top 25 does not make any sense. However, there still does not seem to be any team that really wants to take over the West Region and separate themselves. Should be a very interesting 2nd half of the year in the Region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: bzzboyz on March 31, 2015, 01:21:03 PM
Quote from: CAK72B on March 31, 2015, 11:14:35 AM
West Teams in the Rankings:

18) CTX
19) Trinity (TX)
20) Cal Lu
RV) Linfield
RV) Pacific Lutheran
RV) Puget Sound
RV) Pomona-Pitzer
RV) Southwestern (TX)

I stated this on the Top 25 poll board but the fact that Texas Lutheran is not even receiving a single vote but Trinity is ranked in the Top 25 does not make any sense. However, there still does not seem to be any team that really wants to take over the West Region and separate themselves. Should be a very interesting 2nd half of the year in the Region.

Especially after losing two straight conference series. Southwestern has beat some some strong teams but lost 2 of 3 to TLU in non conference games but still managed 6 votes. I think team mom's vote on this crap.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on March 31, 2015, 02:36:48 PM
Quote from: bzzboyz on March 31, 2015, 01:21:03 PM
Quote from: CAK72B on March 31, 2015, 11:14:35 AM
West Teams in the Rankings:

18) CTX
19) Trinity (TX)
20) Cal Lu
RV) Linfield
RV) Pacific Lutheran
RV) Puget Sound
RV) Pomona-Pitzer
RV) Southwestern (TX)

I stated this on the Top 25 poll board but the fact that Texas Lutheran is not even receiving a single vote but Trinity is ranked in the Top 25 does not make any sense. However, there still does not seem to be any team that really wants to take over the West Region and separate themselves. Should be a very interesting 2nd half of the year in the Region.

Especially after losing two straight conference series. Southwestern has beat some some strong teams but lost 2 of 3 to TLU in non conference games but still managed 6 votes. I think team mom's vote on this crap.
At this time of year you take these with a grain of salt. Keep winning and your team will get in. Keep winning year after year and build a reputation. You cannot compare teams in a Vacuum. You have to take the whole body of work.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on March 31, 2015, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: bzzboyz on March 31, 2015, 01:21:03 PM
Quote from: CAK72B on March 31, 2015, 11:14:35 AM
West Teams in the Rankings:

18) CTX
19) Trinity (TX)
20) Cal Lu
RV) Linfield
RV) Pacific Lutheran
RV) Puget Sound
RV) Pomona-Pitzer
RV) Southwestern (TX)

I stated this on the Top 25 poll board but the fact that Texas Lutheran is not even receiving a single vote but Trinity is ranked in the Top 25 does not make any sense. However, there still does not seem to be any team that really wants to take over the West Region and separate themselves. Should be a very interesting 2nd half of the year in the Region.

Especially after losing two straight conference series. Southwestern has beat some some strong teams but lost 2 of 3 to TLU in non conference games but still managed 6 votes. I think team mom's vote on this crap.

Hard to figure out Southwestern.  Lots of good wins over ranked opponents, looking like the Pirates of the past and then times they look like the Pirates of the last few years.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on March 31, 2015, 02:46:59 PM
Maybe you will like this poll better. They have TLU at 29.

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cbase2015&sub=11620
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: WestisBest on March 31, 2015, 02:55:19 PM
The Massey rating seems more on point than the D3 ranking.  Whitworth leads the NWC, but didn't get a vote in the D3 poll? C'mon, that's not right. In the Massey rating, the Pirates sit in the no. 15 spot.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on March 31, 2015, 03:12:23 PM
Massey is computer generated. They also do not always have teh game scores correct and many times they are missing games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: bzzboyz on March 31, 2015, 03:14:39 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on March 31, 2015, 02:36:48 PM
Quote from: bzzboyz on March 31, 2015, 01:21:03 PM
Quote from: CAK72B on March 31, 2015, 11:14:35 AM
West Teams in the Rankings:

18) CTX
19) Trinity (TX)
20) Cal Lu
RV) Linfield
RV) Pacific Lutheran
RV) Puget Sound
RV) Pomona-Pitzer
RV) Southwestern (TX)

I stated this on the Top 25 poll board but the fact that Texas Lutheran is not even receiving a single vote but Trinity is ranked in the Top 25 does not make any sense. However, there still does not seem to be any team that really wants to take over the West Region and separate themselves. Should be a very interesting 2nd half of the year in the Region.

Especially after losing two straight conference series. Southwestern has beat some some strong teams but lost 2 of 3 to TLU in non conference games but still managed 6 votes. I think team mom's vote on this crap.
At this time of year you take these with a grain of salt. Keep winning and your team will get in. Keep winning year after year and build a reputation. You cannot compare teams in a Vacuum. You have to take the whole body of work.

Year after year should have nothing to do with it. Are the Aggies ranked number one because of past years.? It's because of this year. The problem.is it's the same people voting on the same teams without really taking a hard look at anything. Mailing it in so to speak.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: WestisBest on March 31, 2015, 03:19:45 PM
Massey may be computer generated and miss a game or two, but that's better than human voters missing teams.  How do the voters miss a conference leader?  I mean, one or two voters, maybe. But no votes for Whitworth? I agree with the notion that some voters just mail it in and that's a disservice to the vote that individual holds.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 31, 2015, 04:09:13 PM
Quote from: WestisBest on March 31, 2015, 03:19:45 PM
Massey may be computer generated and miss a game or two, but that's better than human voters missing teams.  How do the voters miss a conference leader?  I mean, one or two voters, maybe. But no votes for Whitworth? I agree with the notion that some voters just mail it in and that's a disservice to the vote that individual holds.

I can't speak for everyone here, but my reasoning for not voting for Whitworth goes like this: twelve of their wins come against Schreiner (4-20), Whitman (5-18), and Lewis & Clark (5-25)... They are 12-1 against teams with a combined 14-63 record. They are 7-6 against teams with winning records.

If they sweep this weekend, I have no problem tossing them some votes. If they go 7-3 or better the rest of the season, yea they deserve it too. But for the time being, I still have PLU and Linfield ahead of them.

Just my two cents.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: WestisBest on March 31, 2015, 04:20:25 PM
Westside, I can respect that.

And, if the other voters engaged is similar analyses, I withdraw my objection.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 31, 2015, 04:52:24 PM
I assume they probably don't ;D

In reality, the west region is so open right now and it will likely take until the final weekend to see who makes it. It is a shame that PLU lost Mahlum, because they could be running away with it at this point if he were pitching every weekend (though their offense is still susceptible of getting shut down by decent pitching).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 31, 2015, 05:40:58 PM
Westside is right.

The West looks competitive.

It does not look Top 25 stellar!

IMHO, year in and year out, the West (the smallest of the regions with about 10% of the membership) has 4-5 of the Top 25 and 10 of the Top 75 teams. All 4 conferences are strong baseball conferences. 

This year, I think that the West is uniformly down, with very few Top 25 calibre teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 31, 2015, 07:34:09 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 31, 2015, 05:40:58 PM
Westside is right.

The West looks competitive.

It does not look Top 25 stellar!

IMHO, year in and year out, the West (the smallest of the regions with about 10% of the membership) has 4-5 of the Top 25 and 10 of the Top 75 teams. All 4 conferences are strong baseball conferences. 

This year, I think that the West is uniformly down, with very few Top 25 calibre teams.

I actually kind of think it is hard to say if the conference is down.  Generally speaking, the West Region teams have mainly played against themselves.  Maybe the region is up overall, with more talent dispersed among the mid to lower echelon teams, and less stacked in a few programs?  Look at how rare it is for anyone to get a weekend sweep against anybody, that has particularly been the case in the NWC this season.  And, when there is a sweep, the games have often been nail biters and/or extra inning affairs (look at Willamette's sweep of Whitman)  Lewis and Clark now has the talent to roll out a guy that chucks a one run CG victory versus Linfield. Having watched many, many games over the past several years, particularly in the NWC, the talent is there - for instance, I'd put PLU's 3 three weekend starters up against anyone right now, and that's with the guy who would have been most likely their ace out for year with injury.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on March 31, 2015, 09:20:12 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on March 31, 2015, 07:34:09 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 31, 2015, 05:40:58 PM
Westside is right.

The West looks competitive.

It does not look Top 25 stellar!

All 4 conferences are strong baseball conferences. 

This year, I think that the West is uniformly down, with very few Top 25 calibre teams.

Maybe the region is up overall, with more talent dispersed among the mid to lower echelon teams, and less stacked in a few programs? 

The "middle of the road" and "bottom feeders" in conferences have gotten stronger, but the "top tier" programs (e.g. Linfield, Cal Lu, Trinity) haven't been quite as dominant as they have in the past. Linfield lost back to back conference series for the 1st time since 2006, Cal Lu lost back to back series to Redlands and Whittier, and Trinity already sits at 4-5 in conference play (they haven't lost more than 5 games in conference since 2009). These 3 traditional powers (and consistent Top 25 programs) are having the script flipped against them with the rise of other programs and some of the key departures they have endured to graduation. I think the parody across the West-region conferences has been magnified this season with their "decline" and the improvement of other programs. These "middle of the road" programs have always had respectable programs, but they were overshadowed by the dominance of the Big 3. Things appear to be different this season....But yet, the traditional 3 are still right in the thick of things.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 31, 2015, 09:51:26 PM
I think we're on the same wave length NW, I don't believe an out of conference fly-in team will win the west regional, so we'll see how deep the west region team goes in the WS. There's just more talent, hell UPS, who is now receiving top 25 votes narrowly escaped a sweep from a bottom feeder because of two walk off HR, the gap is narrowing, and that's good
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 01, 2015, 11:55:35 AM
Couple of comments that are Trinity/SCAC and regional issues.

The SCAC will continue to get much tougher over the coming years with TLU and South Western developing. If you go back a few years you had Millsaps, Hendrix and Trinity (and later Birmingham Southern) fighting it out for the SCAC and you will see the same thing in the new SCAC with SW, TLU and Centenary so it will not be a given for Trinity to win the conference every year.

I knew that SW would develop into a very competitive team once Thomas took over the program from Hendrix. SW has the potential to be another Trinity as it is a high quality regional school, it is in a great location and campus for recruiting right next to Austin. I love the way this team plays, when you look at their stats you wonder how they do it. The never give up, they fight for every out and they are very well coached. In the Trinity series they played their OF in and made Trinity hit the ball over their head and as a consequence caught more balls than they missed. That alone won two games for them as they caught flairs that fell in front of the Trinity OFers as they were deep. There was a lot more than this but they are a dangerous and well coached team. IMO they will become a consistent top 25 program in the future.

As far as Trinity goes they lost three Senior position players all up the middle, Bianchi-C, Hirschberg-CF, and Muscarello-SS and while they have talented players to replace them it is hard to replace that leadership. If you go back and listen to any of Scannell's preseason interviews he always talks about leadership and the impact on a team. You see this going on with Trinity as all of the starters are Jr's. and as the season moves along you will likely see leaders develop from within this group. The pitching side is loaded with Sr's, but pitchers can not be team leaders. They seem to be playing better and even though they lost 2/3 to SW, the offensive is starting to gel. IMO they will have to win the SCAC to get to the Regional, and maybe this is a good thing as it forces them to have to compete in every game. I did not get the sense they were doing this earlier in the season.

As far as the West in general, I agree there seems to not be 2-3 dominant teams early in the season, but this does not mean they will not develop as they play, and I expect to see a very competitive regional once things shake out in some of the conferences. I think in general the quality of play in the West is very high and it seems to be getting more balanced based on what we are seeing.



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 01, 2015, 04:08:05 PM
BTW when in the heck are they going to announce the West Regional location ?????
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 01, 2015, 05:42:34 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 01, 2015, 04:08:05 PM
BTW when in the heck are they going to announce the West Regional location ?????

I've been wondering the same thing.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 02, 2015, 10:53:53 AM
Trinity crushed CTX Weds evening in commanding fashion 11-3, it was 11-1 until Trinity brought in a bunch of young arms to get some experience and could not seem to throw a strike and CTX picked up 2 runs on one hit. Game was 1-1 though 2, then 2-1 through 4, Trinity pulled away in the 5th 5-1 then broke it open in the 6th.

I would not read too much into it other than both teams threw their number 3 starters and Trinity pitching and hitting were much stronger against the back half of the rotations. Game is only one data point however, but might be a bit troublesome from a CTX perspective on the back half of their pitching rotation. Friday's game might be more indicative from CTX's pitching perspective as I suspect Cox will be on the mound. Not sure about Trinity. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 02, 2015, 11:59:51 AM
Outside of Cox (All American) and Traxtler and Smith Concordia doesn't have much. Pope is not bad for a Southpaw. Hats off to Trinity.

I would expect a better game in Austin.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 02, 2015, 02:19:40 PM
Quote from: BamColt on April 02, 2015, 11:59:51 AM
Outside of Cox (All American) and Traxtler and Smith Concordia doesn't have much. Pope is not bad for a Southpaw . Hats off to Trinity.

I would expect a better game in Austin.
LOL, is there something inherently bad with Soutpaws? ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 02, 2015, 04:03:51 PM
No, but there's something inherently nasty about southpaws, bishop.........!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 02, 2015, 04:05:32 PM
If your a hitter, yes. But lefties loved to be feared. The good ones do have nasty stuff......
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CAK72B on April 02, 2015, 04:39:12 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on April 02, 2015, 04:05:32 PM
If your a hitter, yes. But lefties loved to be feared. The good ones do have nasty stuff......

I feel like the lefty pitchers are only really feared by the lefty hitters. I still can't comprehend that after playing baseball since probably about 5 left-handed hitters still claim they "don't see left-handed pitchers enough" in order to feel comfortable. I guess over 15 years is not enough...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 02, 2015, 05:46:10 PM
Quote from: CAK72B on April 02, 2015, 04:39:12 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on April 02, 2015, 04:05:32 PM
If your a hitter, yes. But lefties loved to be feared. The good ones do have nasty stuff......

I feel like the lefty pitchers are only really feared by the lefty hitters. I still can't comprehend that after playing baseball since probably about 5 left-handed hitters still claim they "don't see left-handed pitchers enough" in order to feel comfortable. I guess over 15 years is not enough...

I think that is still a fair excuse, especially at the D3 level. I mean, if a HS lefty is decent and throws 86+, there is a good chance he will get D1 looks. Especially compared to a righty that throws 86. So there are a lot less lefties at this level.

Using the NWC as an example. Looking at the top six teams in the league, there are just two lefty starters out of 18 (and they are both on Whitworth). Willamette, PLU, UPS, George Fox, and Linfield all go righty, righty, righty for their weekend series (I could be wrong).

So a good lefty will generally be made to look nasty since you see them less. That's my opinion, at least.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 04, 2015, 12:35:37 AM
Concordia tops Trinity in Austin 8-3 (Series split)

Cox improves to 8-0.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 04, 2015, 11:21:53 AM
Cox was as advertised, very good but not completely dominant. Overall a good game, a TU error caused an a couple of UR's. CTX strung some hits together and Trinity did not, that was the biggest difference in the game. Assuming CTX gets to the regional I would not want to be facing them game 1. Beyond him however they are suspect.

While Trinity's pitching is very deep they don't have a dominant number 1 that can go out and completely shut down a team. At this point it is probably Ryan Gray who over the past three games has only given up 2 runs and has 25 K's over 16 innings. Trinity's problem is they only have three more games against decent competition, the rest of their conf schedule is against all of the weak teams. They will probably go on a big winning streak but IMO won't mean much given the level of competition they will be facing.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tony_baldwin on April 04, 2015, 07:04:09 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 04, 2015, 11:21:53 AM
Cox was as advertised, very good but not completely dominant.

He ran into a problem with two outs in the ninth. Outside of that he was pretty much doing what he's done each game.

He had 11 strikeouts and one walk in 8.2 innings. Cox fired 93 strikes in 132 pitches and started 22 of the 34 batters he faced with a strike (he also retired seven of the 12 that he started with a ball).

Moore, Serkowski, Wolf, Butler and Singer (Trinity's 1-5 hitters) were a combined 2-for-16 with five strikeouts. Trinity also did not record any extra-base hits in the game.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 04, 2015, 08:31:03 PM
That sounds pretty dominant to me.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 05, 2015, 07:01:22 PM
We are still trying to figure out who has the #3,#4 & #5 pitchers/pitch-by-committee-staffs to win the West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 05, 2015, 09:25:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 05, 2015, 07:01:22 PM
We are still trying to figure out who has the #3,#4 & #5 pitchers/pitch-by-committee-staffs to win the West.

My vote right now goes to PLU
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2015, 12:24:13 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 05, 2015, 07:01:22 PM
We are still trying to figure out who has the #3,#4 & #5 pitchers/pitch-by-committee-staffs to win the West.

When you figure it out let us know...based on my SCAC predictions from last week I will not even venture to guess.

What I would like to know is where the heck the West Regional will be!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 06, 2015, 09:21:35 AM

[/quote]



What I would like to know is where the heck the West Regional will be!
[/quote]

Makes me wonder if it will be somewhere that has never hosted and they are still pounding out logistics
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 06, 2015, 05:41:26 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 06, 2015, 09:21:35 AM





What I would like to know is where the heck the West Regional will be!


Makes me wonder if it will be somewhere that has never hosted and they are still pounding out logistics
Rumor and innuendo make for good speculation.

You are down on record for the obligatory "I told you so", if you are right.

(UT-Tyler?)   :)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 07, 2015, 11:18:31 AM
#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Salisbury (17)   18-0   616   1
2   Cortland State (3)   18-1   589   2
3   UW-Whitewater (4)   14-1   588   3
4   Heidelberg   16-2   484   6
5   Kean   19-6   479   5
6   Birmingham-Southern (1)   24-5-1   478   4
7   UW-Stevens Point   12-4   455   7
8   Frostburg State   21-3   414   12
9   Shenandoah   16-4-1   401   9
10   St. Thomas   13-5   372   8
11   Wartburg   21-4   337   14
12   Millsaps   22-5   332   21
13   Misericordia   14-2   320   13
14   Rhodes   23-8   273   11
15   Randolph-Macon   17-6   223   10
16   Baldwin Wallace   13-4   197   16
17   Wooster   18-3   183   25
18   Buena Vista   16-5   178   17
19   Concordia (Texas)   21-6   177   18
20   Augustana   19-5   152   24
21   Southern Maine   11-6   110   15
22   Trinity (Texas)   19-9   98   19
23   Methodist   24-7   85   rv
24   Linfield   21-9   67   rv
25   Ohio Northern   16-4   60   23
Dropped out: No. 20. Cal Lutheran, No. 22. Emory.

Others receiving votes: Cal Lutheran 60, Emory 48, Tufts 43, Thomas More 43, Adrian 29, Oswego State 25, Pacific Lutheran 21, Wesleyan (Conn.) 19, Otterbein 17, Rowan 17, Ohio Wesleyan 13, Carthage 12, Mary Washington 11, John Carroll 11, Bridgewater (Va.) 10, Texas-Tyler 10, Webster 8, Neumann 7, Texas Lutheran 4, Washington (Mo.) 3, Clarkson 3, Augsburg 2, Marietta 1, UW-La Crosse 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2015, 12:42:10 AM
Forget the polls  ;D ???
Best 6 should go to the West Regional. No fly in's  :D
All conferences have Conference tourney's to determine Pool A bids in 2015

ASC
Concordia-Texas 21-6
Texas-Tyler 19-8

NWC
Pacific Lutheran 20-8
Linfield 21-9

SCAC
Texas Lutheran 20-9
Trinity 19-9

SCIAC 
Cal Lutheran 20-9
Chapman 20-9
Pomona-Pitzer 20-9
Redlands 20-9
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 08, 2015, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2015, 12:42:10 AM
Forget the polls  ;D ???
Best 6 should go to the West Regional. No fly in's  :D
All conferences have Conference tourney's to determine Pool A bids in 2015

ASC
Concordia-Texas 21-6
Texas-Tyler 19-8

NWC
Pacific Lutheran 20-8
Linfield 21-9

SCAC
Texas Lutheran 20-9
Trinity 19-9

SCIAC 
Cal Lutheran 20-9
Chapman 20-9
Pomona-Pitzer 20-9
Redlands 20-9

Love your SCIAC prediction.  Tie breaker calculation would be very interesting.

Currently with 1-2 series to go, plus 4 games in Round Robin: 

CLU 2-1 vs Chapman and 2-1 PP; 1-2 against Redands;   Total head-to-head 5-4
Redlands 2-1 vs CLU; 1-2 against Chapman and 1-2 PP;  Total head-to-head 4-5
Chapman 2-1 vs Redlands; 1-2 against CLU;   ?? vs PP;   Total head-to-head ??   current = 3-3
PP:  2-1 vs Redlands; 1-2 vs CLU; ?? vs Chapman;   Total head-to-head ??   Current = 3-3



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 08, 2015, 11:32:52 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2015, 12:42:10 AM
Forget the polls  ;D ???
Best 6 should go to the West Regional. No fly in's  :D
All conferences have Conference tourney's to determine Pool A bids in 2015

ASC
Concordia-Texas 21-6
Texas-Tyler 19-8

NWC
Pacific Lutheran 20-8
Linfield 21-9

SCAC
Texas Lutheran 20-9
Trinity 19-9

SCIAC 
Cal Lutheran 20-9
Chapman 20-9
Pomona-Pitzer 20-9
Redlands 20-9
So by that reasoning the other regions should get the same consideration. With that logic some pretty sucky teams may get to regional's, every year. I for one do not like it. There have been teams in the past that have gone to a regional outside their area and done well.  Or should this rule only be in for the west? Sorry if I am misinterpreting the Smileys.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: bzzboyz on April 08, 2015, 11:41:29 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2015, 12:42:10 AM
Forget the polls  ;D ???
Best 6 should go to the West Regional. No fly in's  :D
All conferences have Conference tourney's to determine Pool A bids in 2015



SCAC
Texas Lutheran 20-9
Trinity 19-9



Just trying to figure out your reasoning for including (at this point) a team that is 4-5 in conference. Lost two series to teams above them. Stands in 4th place in conference by just a single game with a series to come up against the team behind them. I get reputation, but just like the team moms that vote in the polls, take a look at what they have done so far this year before making "predictions".

Here's the SCAC standings for those who can't seem to find them.


http://www.scacsports.com/sports/bsb/2014-15/standings   (http://www.scacsports.com/sports/bsb/2014-15/standings)



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 08, 2015, 01:05:29 PM
For those who are not familiar - Crash takes a snap shot at any given week and ranks the teams in each division and gives his opinion on the overall top teams in the West by conference.  I don't believe it is intended to be what the final projections for all of the conferences, just a snapshot at the moment.

bzzboyz: It is based on body of work not necessarily conference standings at the moment. Trinity has already played the top teams in the division and only has left teams with a combined record of 6-23 while the teams above them will be beating up each other over the next three weeks. I agree somewhat and I would have put SW ahead of them except they lost 2-3 to a team that is 5-15 last weekend and Trinity split with a very good CTX team and crushed MHB that was 13-7 at the time.

While not perfect massy does a pretty good job of ranking teams asthmatically.

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cbase2015&sub=11620
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 08, 2015, 01:11:17 PM
Quote from: bzzboyz on April 08, 2015, 11:41:29 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2015, 12:42:10 AM
Forget the polls  ;D ???
Best 6 should go to the West Regional. No fly in's  :D
All conferences have Conference tourney's to determine Pool A bids in 2015



SCAC
Texas Lutheran 20-9
Trinity 19-9



Just trying to figure out your reasoning for including (at this point) a team that is 4-5 in conference. Lost two series to teams above them. Stands in 4th place in conference by just a single game with a series to come up against the team behind them. I get reputation, but just like the team moms that vote in the polls, take a look at what they have done so far this year before making "predictions".

Here's the SCAC standings for those who can't seem to find them.


http://www.scacsports.com/sports/bsb/2014-15/standings   (http://www.scacsports.com/sports/bsb/2014-15/standings)

Crash generally includes the teams within the conference sporting the best overall records. Southwestern may be ahead of Trinity in the conference standings (who still has half their conference schedule remaining), but they're 15-13 overall and have virtually no chance at a Pool C. Trinity has a strong enough overall record such that a run at the end of the year could still (maybe, possibly) leave them in the hunt for a Pool C.

Similarly, in the SCIAC La Verne is actually atop the standings but not included in Crash's list. They have an overall record of 17-11, and would have a tough time making any sort of run at a Pool C.

The reasoning seems pretty straightforward to me.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2015, 02:23:11 PM
Once conference tournaments begin it is a new season for the teams involved. Win the conference tournament to get the Pool A bid to go to the regional.

Lose it and you could be done and stay home. Most years many 30 win teams have not made it to the regional tournaments and do not get Pool C bid.

BUT for a week to week opinion I use overall records. I know SOS is not factored in but I prefer wins on the field to form my opinion. SOS is flawed in my opinion.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 08, 2015, 04:33:33 PM
The ASC used to have two divisions, so a conference tournament made sense as it was the only way to determine an overall champion. The ASC is smaller now and there are no longer two divisions. Unless something dramatic changes in the next couple of weeks, CTX will be the regular season champion. However, they do not get an automatic berth in the Regional. That place is set aside for the conference tournament champion. Any team could get hot for a short time and win the tournament. Thus CTX could be left out in the cold. Rewarding a long weekend's worth of work and discounting a whole season's worth of winning, does not appear to be the most equitable way of deciding a conference representation in the Regional.  For that reason alone, I am not in favor of a conference tournament unless the conference is large and has two divisions. Even then, I would limit it to a best of 3 playoff between the two division champions. To do otherwise, puts the entire regular season into a secondary role and cheapens the accomplishment. :-\
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 08, 2015, 05:01:24 PM
Concordia should be eligible for an at large. Completely dominating their conference, a few wins over quality teams in the TLU tourney, not to mention a split with Trinity.
Not sure what more they can do to get respect from the committee and get a bid if they fall short in the tourney. They are ranked in the top 10 in a few polls outside of D3.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 08, 2015, 05:47:07 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on April 08, 2015, 11:32:52 AM

So by that reasoning the other regions should get the same consideration. With that logic some pretty sucky teams may get to regional's, every year. I for one do not like it. There have been teams in the past that have gone to a regional outside their area and done well.  Or should this rule only be in for the west? Sorry if I am misinterpreting the Smileys.
Bishops Dad,
Welcome to the West Region,

We are kinda orphans out here.

Last year, the committee flew 2 outsiders to McMinnville.

Here is the link.

http://www.linfield.edu/sports/2014mcminnvilleregional.html.

IWU went 2 and BBQ.

UW-Stevens Point lost in the Finals to Linfield, but every UWSP game had a margin of 3 runs or less.

In 2013, every game in the West Regional was decided by 2 runs or less. Linfield won it all.  Here were the West Regional Teams.

Linfield
Cal Lutheran
Texas-Tyler
Pomona-Pitzer
Trinity (Texas)
Texas Lutheran
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 08, 2015, 05:47:47 PM
And of coarse the D3 poll has nothing to do with the Pool C selection process. The regional committee will rank the teams and send their Rankings to the National Committee. The National Committee will then choose the Pool C bids.



TexasBB,
You really will not like how the NCAC decides the pool A bid. The NCAC is split into two not because of size but more because of geographic footprint.
The last weekend of conference play is called the crossover series.
The number one seeds from the east and west host the 4 seeds from the other division.
The number two seeds host the 3 from the other division.

These are best of 3 series. So a 4 can knock out a 1 by getting hot for 2 games.
The winners from these series play each other in a double elimination tourney.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 08, 2015, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 08, 2015, 05:47:07 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on April 08, 2015, 11:32:52 AM

So by that reasoning the other regions should get the same consideration. With that logic some pretty sucky teams may get to regional's, every year. I for one do not like it. There have been teams in the past that have gone to a regional outside their area and done well.  Or should this rule only be in for the west? Sorry if I am misinterpreting the Smileys.
Bishops Dad,
Welcome to the West Region,

We are kinda orphans out here.

Last year, the committee flew 2 outsiders to McMinnville.

Here is the link.

http://www.linfield.edu/sports/2014mcminnvilleregional.html.

IWU went 2 and BBQ.

UW-Stevens Point lost in the Finals to Linfield, but every UWSP game had a margin of 3 runs or less.

In 2013, every game in the West Regional was decided by 2 runs or less. Linfield won it all.  Here were the West Regional Teams.

Linfield
Cal Lutheran
Texas-Tyler
Pomona-Pitzer
Trinity (Texas)
Texas Lutheran

Thanks Ralph I follow the west region from a distance but I am aware of the challenges. I am not sure there is a fair way to resolve this issue though. Because D3 is so regional based, as by design, it is hard to compare teams from disparate regions. I am not sure saving the west regional for all west teams is the answer. What does the NCAA say to the other regions?
The most fair way to do it would to have regional's and super regional's etc. But the NCAA and most D3 colleges would never go for that. The season would probably have to be extended or start the tourney earlier and have kids missing school.
There are many advantages playing in the South and west, but their are disadvantages as well.

And while IWU was 2 and done, they lost 1 run games. So they were not exactly blown away.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 08, 2015, 08:33:26 PM
Conference tourney is like 1st round of playoffs for D3. A mini regional. Win and move on. Lose and go home and maybe stay home if you dont get Pool C bid. Not a great way to do this but not sure how to fix this. Committee's do a poor job of picking Pool C teams in my opinion. Tough job indeed but ALWAYS a deserving team stays home. How do teams with a winning percentage at .750 stay home is hard to take.

Maybe a Pool C play in game. BUT it costs $$$
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 08, 2015, 09:20:33 PM
Crash, any real fix is going to cost $$ you are right. So we deal with what we have. It could be worse. What if pool c went away, and you were left with pool A and B.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 09, 2015, 12:41:00 AM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on April 08, 2015, 09:20:33 PM
Crash, any real fix is going to cost $$ you are right. So we deal with what we have. It could be worse. What if pool c went away, and you were left with pool A and B.
Your right.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 09, 2015, 11:58:48 AM
Bishopsleaftydad,

The crossover method was incorporated in the old ASC tournament. Similar in week one 4 would play 1 and 2 would play 3 in each division. Then the winners would advance to week two for a double ellimination round. Never liked it much but it did make for more inclusion of teams.

The ASC is spread all over the place. Sul Ross State is located in Alpine, TX, in the west Texas Davis Mountain region. Louisiana College is located in Pinneville, La. The distance between these two schools is over 800 miles! There is nothing comparable to these distances with the Eastern Schools. That is comparable to OWU playing a conference game in Jacksonville, FL. The distances between the Confences in Texas, California and the North West are even more dramatic.  That is what truely makes the West region so much different than all the other regions. Thus that is why they should allow all 6 teams that go to the west regional to come from the west. 

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 09, 2015, 12:47:18 PM
TexasBB,
I have to disagree, yes the west is geographically challenged, which is a disadvantage, but this over looks other advantages the west AND south usually have over the the Northern colleges. Generally the west schools can start much sooner and spread their games out. If you include practices, the west and south gets much more outside baseball in than the northern schools. The spirit of D3 is inclusion, You do not treat student athletes different than non athletes. You do not have separate rules from one region to another.  That is D3.
This has been discussed many times over the years. So while the west may be spread out, and the north and east compact, the west has a longer season time wise, and the North and East season is shorter.
The rules have to apply the same to all. Last year UW-stevens point almost got through the west, they played in the championship, and while IWU was 2 and que, they lost 1 run games. If the teams flown in were getting blown out, then the NCAA should look at how they pick teams, but last year anyway, the west regional was competitive, with two northern teams.
If they make adjustments for the west because of the Geographic issues, what concessions would they make to the other regions? Do they correct the weather issues by having a national opening day? Lets say March first. No games are to be played before that date and practices cannot start until February? No, I am sure the presidents in the west would not want to do that. Those young men would miss too much school.
In other words you want to guarantee the west two pool C bids?
There is no good way to fix it. It is what it is.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 09, 2015, 01:19:44 PM
If they make adjustments for the west because of the Geographic issues, what concessions would they make to the other regions? Do they correct the weather issues by having a national opening day?

I am struggling to understand that these points are related at all. The argument would be the same if everyone started on the same day...


In other words you want to guarantee the west two pool C bids?

When they are deserving, yes. As someone that has been following the West closely for more than five years, it is tiring seeing teams deserving of bids getting left at home. It makes sense if teams from the West generally struggled on the national stage, but they don't. It makes sense if non-West regional teams came in and won the Region, but they don't. In terms of population, the West region makes up nearly 1/3 of the country. In general, the quality of play is a lot higher than other conferences (top to bottom). I really think it makes sense to have six teams from the West, when they are deserving. Of course all of this is different if there aren't teams deserving of making the regional.

Just last year for example, the committee chose to bring in IWU, with a 24-20 record. You are telling me that it makes sense that they got in over George Fox, who went 28-12, is 15 miles away from the regional site, and beat Linfield (who won the regional) twice. I watched every game of that regional and I can say 100% George Fox would've been the 2nd best team there.

At the end of the day, our opinions don't really matter. I just wish we at least could see the reasoning the committee has each year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 09, 2015, 02:11:37 PM
Well you say the west is generally better top to bottom. Is part of that because they get more time outside? Get more practices per Game?

There are deserving teams that get left home every year, in almost every region, this is not just a west regional issue.

Currently winning percentage is not one of the criteria I believe. Otherwise many of the east teams would load up on tomato cans and come in with unbelievable records, there would be a lot more 30 win teams out East, so if win percentage were a criteria I am not sure that would result in 6 west teams in the regional.

Yes the a national opening day (I do not want one, by the way) would not change things for the Northern teams, but it would give the west some of the same disadvantages that the east has, sort of leveling the playing field.

Westside it sounds like you want to use the eye test, correct me if I am wrong. There is no way the eye test could be used on a National level. I know having SOS as a criteria is problematical and due to geography the West SOS is driven toward 500. I am not sure there is a good fix that will make anyone happy.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 09, 2015, 02:13:47 PM
The west has 4 main conferences and the west regional has 6 spots. So you have the 4 conference champions and two at large pics. That means giving a berth to the next best two teams. I cannot think of any year in which the west did not deserve 2 at large teams. I recall when UTT, TLU, Ozarks and others had won over 30 games, were ranked in the top 25 nationally, and stayed home.

We are talking about a total of 6 teams for the entire region. The fact that the weather is warmer and they play longer (but no more games) has nothing to do with anything. That is true with baseball at any division. The northern and eastern schools make up for it by traveling south and play games during spring break. They also fit in more games in April. An arguement can be made that playing a lot of games in April gives them an advantage, as they have to develop and use more pitchers. Also the hitters are seeing more game time at bats in a compressed time.  Historically DIV III has had a majority of its champions from the north and east as opposed to DIV I which has been southern dominated.  A lot of that has to do with playing alot of games in a compressed time frame. A typical Texas team in April will play 1 game on a Weds (non- conference) and a 3 game set on the weekend. They use 4 starters and a few relief pitchers. When they get to a double ellimination tournament, they often run out of pitchers. Pitching wins tournaments. Those that have developed it and are deep win. Those that rely on 3 or 4 main starters and one or two in releif, no matter how good they are, come up short. The Eastern schools are forced to develop more pitching because of the schedule.

JMO

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 09, 2015, 02:22:05 PM
I agree Texas, It can be an be an advantage for pitching. I just do not think you can guarantee two Pool c bids for the west and say to the other regions, sorry. there is no way the NCAA would go for it.
It comes down to the way the teams are being chosen, Some criteria needs to be used beside what region you are in. Besides saving all west slots for west teams what would you suggest?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 09, 2015, 02:29:57 PM
To interrupt this message D3 baseball just announced that UTT will host the West Regional.

I booked a hotel some time ago on the rumor, now my team just needs to play better to get there....  ::)

Should be a great site BTW excellent facility and plenty of hotels in the area.

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2015/04/texas-tyler-to-host-regional

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 09, 2015, 02:32:42 PM
Thanks, I hope they announce the other regions soon. 108 you are never an interruption, your input is always valued. We are just beating the dead horse we always beat this time of year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 09, 2015, 02:35:31 PM
I would save the slots for all the divisions for teams from those divisions. If a division tournament has 8 teams, then there was reason for assigning 8 to that division. Usually it is based on the number of teams making it up. So if there is enough teams to support an 8 team division then that division should get 8 teams.  Therefore, I would stop sending teams outside of the divisions their from. Of course what I really would like to see is more inclusion. Expanded number of teams. That of course is $$ issue.

Had a son that played at UTT a decade ago. Great college and facility. Glad they are hosting it this year!

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 09, 2015, 02:42:21 PM
I noticed the release for the hosting says: The tournament will feature four or six teams, depending on the assignments handed out by the NCAA committee.

Is there actually a chance they would only have four teams? Seems farfetched, but you never know.

Looks like a great spot to host.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 09, 2015, 02:45:44 PM
So you are for all regionals being only for teams in that region?
The mid east is usually an 8 team regional, so all teams would come from the Mid East?

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 09, 2015, 02:50:05 PM
Yes, that is what I am saying. All 8 teams from the mid-east would come from that region. From what I understand, they base the region size by the number of teams that play in that region. Mid-East has more teams than the west so there are more spots. It would make sense that 8 teams come from that Mid-East and play in the mid-east regional. Keeps travel costs down as well.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 09, 2015, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 09, 2015, 02:29:57 PM
To interrupt this message D3 baseball just announced that UTT will host the West Regional.

I booked a hotel some time ago on the rumor, now my team just needs to play better to get there....  ::)

Should be a great site BTW excellent facility and plenty of hotels in the area.

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2015/04/texas-tyler-to-host-regional

Excellent, thanks for the update. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 09, 2015, 04:16:54 PM
There are endless arguments to this problem. Wining your conference is the only guarantee to keep playing. One of the reasons conference tournaments are good at the D3 level as they are more or less Regional tournaments and the "Regionals" are more like Super Regionals in D1 ball.

Since there are a preponderance of teams in the East you would think that the NCAA would have a ratio of Regional teams to slots, but since I have not looked at this I am not sure if this is the case, knowing the NCAA I doubt it.  The real issue comes to national rankings to get to the top 54 teams, because a Crash points out, SOS is a problem in the West because of the distances and conferences like the ASC have 36 conference games. Then again you have to look at the level of play also in 2013 there were three top 10 teams in the West Regional, which is a bit crazy, but that is just the way it is in D3 baseball land.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 10, 2015, 09:55:25 AM
"There are endless arguments to this problem. Wining your conference is the only guarantee to keep playing. One of the reasons conference tournaments are good at the D3 level as they are more or less Regional tournaments and the "Regionals" are more like Super Regionals in D1 ball."

Winning your conference is the only guarantee. Nobody can argue with that. However, how you determine a conference champion is an issue. Most now rely on the conference tournament as the decision maker which cheapens the regular season champions accomplishment.

Second, just about all of the DIV I schools have conference tournaments as well, so the analogy to the Regional does not hold up.   DIV I just has more money and the NCAA puts more emphasis on it. They play 30% - 50% more games as well. Most DIV III schools play about the same number of games that a Texas HS plays.  Not sure why NCAA III limits the number of games at DIV III the way they do. Could be that the institutions themselves place the limit since it is non-scholarship and thus considered an extra curricular activity. 

Certainly the schools in the S, SW and California, due to the weather, could play a lot more games than they do. The lure of DIV II, NAIA and even JUCO in Texas hurts D III recruiting because of the number of games are limited. That may also explain why the S and SW do not dominate DIV III like they do the other divisions. 


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 10, 2015, 10:17:42 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 10, 2015, 09:55:25 AM
Winning your conference is the only guarantee. Nobody can argue with that. However, how you determine a conference champion is an issue. Most now rely on the conference tournament as the decision maker which cheapens the regular season champions accomplishment.

Second, just about all of the DIV I schools have conference tournaments as well, so the analogy to the Regional does not hold up.   DIV I just has more money and the NCAA puts more emphasis on it. They play 30% - 50% more games as well. Most DIV III schools play about the same number of games that a Texas HS plays.  Not sure why NCAA III limits the number of games at DIV III the way they do. Could be that the institutions themselves place the limit since it is non-scholarship and thus considered an extra curricular activity. 

Certainly the schools in the S, SW and California, due to the weather, could play a lot more games than they do. The lure of DIV II, NAIA and even JUCO in Texas hurts D III recruiting because of the number of games are limited. That may also explain why the S and SW do not dominate DIV III like they do the other divisions.

A conference tournament is seeded and that is what the regular season provides, as well as the ability to get a Pool C bid based on accomplishments. IMO opinion it makes the whole season relevant, and makes for more exciting games. There is nothing better than tournaments when the marbles are on the line, the kids like it, coaches like it, and fans like it, not a lot of downside IMO.

I get that D1 has conf tournaments, but in effect they are "Regionals" in D3 ball...actually mini-regionals if that makes any sense.

This is why W teams are not more prevalent in D3 ball. (actually as a % it is quite high)

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?err=1&msa=0&mid=zvcgG4s_D8gc.k5vtCpj2bJ-k
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 10, 2015, 10:32:15 AM
Not that the numbers change much, but some of the teams on that list are NAIA. 3 of the 4 schools listed in Nebraska for instance. But the point is still valid.

This map is for Football, I am going to see if I can find one relevant to baseball.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NCAA_Division_3_football_map.gif
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 10, 2015, 10:43:09 AM
Well, I made my point and Bishop is right, we beat this dead horse every year about this time. 

No question that DIV III has many more schools in the East and Mid east but they also have more teams in the regional tournaments  and more regions. Heck there is a NY state regional. So they are fairly represented. My entire point is that the West region should get 6 teams from the west. I don't think anyone on these boards (at least west region fans) will argue with that. Of course convincing the NCAA of that is another matter. The West region does not have the political voting stock so ....

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 10, 2015, 10:47:26 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 10, 2015, 09:55:25 AM
"There are endless arguments to this problem. Wining your conference is the only guarantee to keep playing. One of the reasons conference tournaments are good at the D3 level as they are more or less Regional tournaments and the "Regionals" are more like Super Regionals in D1 ball."

Winning your conference is the only guarantee. Nobody can argue with that. However, how you determine a conference champion is an issue. Most now rely on the conference tournament as the decision maker which cheapens the regular season champions accomplishment.

Second, just about all of the DIV I schools have conference tournaments as well, so the analogy to the Regional does not hold up.   DIV I just has more money and the NCAA puts more emphasis on it. They play 30% - 50% more games as well. Most DIV III schools play about the same number of games that a Texas HS plays. Not sure why NCAA III limits the number of games at DIV III the way they do. Could be that the institutions themselves place the limit since it is non-scholarship and thus considered an extra curricular activity. 

Certainly the schools in the S, SW and California, due to the weather, could play a lot more games than they do. The lure of DIV II, NAIA and even JUCO in Texas hurts D III recruiting because of the number of games are limited. That may also explain why the S and SW do not dominate DIV III like they do the other divisions. 



You are right, it is the institutions themselves that agreed that D3 would play the number of games they do. In fact at the last convention there was a proposal to limit it more. They wanted to cut 10% accross the board accept for Football and Track. The proposal  was smt back to commitee, so it will raise its ugly head again.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 10, 2015, 10:48:49 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 10, 2015, 10:43:09 AM
Well, I made my point and Bishop is right, we beat this dead horse every year about this time. 

No question that DIV III has many more schools in the East and Mid east but they also have more teams in the regional tournaments  and more regions. Heck there is a NY state regional. So they are fairly represented. My entire point is that the West region should get 6 teams from the west. I don't think anyone on these boards (at least west region fans) will argue with that. Of course convincing the NCAA of that is another matter. The West region does not have the political voting stock so ....


Get more west schools to move to D3 ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 10, 2015, 11:00:42 AM
Texas i agree with the 6 teams. BLD it is really a problem due to travel, they almost have to go in groups. Menlo used to be D3 and went NAIA.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 10, 2015, 11:03:09 AM
Oh I agree, Travel in the west is horrendous. Just like weather in the North and east. All the regions have their crosses to bear.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 10, 2015, 12:23:26 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 09, 2015, 02:29:57 PM
To interrupt this message D3 baseball just announced that UTT will host the West Regional.

I booked a hotel some time ago on the rumor, now my team just needs to play better to get there....  ::)

Should be a great site BTW excellent facility and plenty of hotels in the area.

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2015/04/texas-tyler-to-host-regional
My West Region bracket.

NWC Pool A
SCIAC Pool A
ASC Pool A
ASC Pool C (CTX or UTT)
SCAC Pool A
Rhodes gets bussed in to Tyler
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 10, 2015, 12:34:17 PM
Ralph, good guess, I would agree that this looks probable...but as they say lots of baseball to be played.

BLD the problem are not crosses, but money, D3 teams just can not afford to be flying 30+ players, coaches and staff around to games. As you know conferences are now bunched in Texas, SoCal and NWest.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 10, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 10, 2015, 12:34:17 PM
Ralph, good guess, I would agree that this looks probable...but as they say lots of baseball to be played.

BLD the problem are not crosses, but money, D3 teams just can not afford to be flying 30+ players, coaches and staff around to games. As you know conferences are now bunched in Texas, SoCal and NWest.
And NE D3 teams cannot afford to play the first month of their schedule down south.
It is going to get worse before it gets better. The NCAA (college presidents etc...) are looking to cut costs, see the proposal to cut games by 10 % at the NCAA convention. The south region sometimes get a team shipped in. When the regional was in Tennessee, They had at least one Mideast team bused in. One year it was Wabash and another it was Depauw, both because they were within 500 miles of he regional site.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CAK72B on April 10, 2015, 05:21:36 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on April 10, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 10, 2015, 12:34:17 PM
Ralph, good guess, I would agree that this looks probable...but as they say lots of baseball to be played.

BLD the problem are not crosses, but money, D3 teams just can not afford to be flying 30+ players, coaches and staff around to games. As you know conferences are now bunched in Texas, SoCal and NWest.
And NE D3 teams cannot afford to play the first month of their schedule down south.
It is going to get worse before it gets better. The NCAA (college presidents etc...) are looking to cut costs, see the proposal to cut games by 10 % at the NCAA convention. The south region sometimes get a team shipped in. When the regional was in Tennessee, They had at least one Mideast team bused in. One year it was Wabash and another it was Depauw, both because they were within 500 miles of he regional site.

I've been reading these and I can see how the weather creates an issue...however they can still get the same amount of games in and play a variety of teams from different conferences and regions. In the selection process everyone talks about how SOS is a highly valued attribute to a team on the cut line. When West region teams can only realistically play each other it dilutes that number compared to the schools in the NW. So it almost is a benefit to be in the NW but get more control of your schedule and who you play compared to the West where ASC and SCAC schools are basically locked with each other for non conference games as well with the SCIAC and NWC. Weather can cause those problems but I'm sure some of these West schools would trade starting a month later to be able to improve their Pool C chances. Let's be honest, if you do not have 4 or 5 good SP that can pitch you probably do not have a realistic chance to win come playoff time anyways...unless your Linfield and have Chris H be able to come back and pitch on command  ;)
And NE D3 teams cannot afford to play the first month of their schedule down south.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 12, 2015, 01:20:51 PM
All problems described shows why SOS is flawed and makes Pool B/C process flawed.

I support on the field games to make the regionals.

Top 4 in Conference are in my world of playoffs

Round 1 Conference Tourney
Pool play for the 4

Round 2 Conference Championship
Top 2 in Pool play play 2 out of 3 for Regional play.
Lose and stay home.

Winner plays in Regional


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 12, 2015, 07:38:12 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 12, 2015, 01:20:51 PM
All problems described shows why SOS is flawed and makes Pool B/C process flawed.

I support on the field games to make the regionals.

Top 4 in Conference are in my world of playoffs

Round 1 Conference Tourney
Pool play for the 4

Round 2 Conference Championship
Top 2 in Pool play play 2 out of 3 for Regional play.
Lose and stay home.

Winner plays in Regional

I'm missing how this solves your issue with Pool B/C subjectivity and SOS. What you outline still resolves to four conference champions who "won it on the field ", but the West Regional is historically a six team tournament - where are the other two teams coming from? Or are you proposing a four team West Regional? Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 13, 2015, 12:21:18 PM
Big weekend series coming up in the ASC as CTX will host UTT in a 3 game series. Both schools swept their conference games this past weekend. CTX swept Howard Payne and UTT swept LeTourneau. For the season CTX is 24-6 overall and 18-2 in the ASC. UTT is 24-9 overall and 19-5 in the ASC. UTT would have to sweep the series against CTX to have a realistic chance at the regular season ASC championship. That is very unlikely, as CTX has some dominating starting pitching and plays well at home. Tyler has suffered almost all of its losses on the road. 

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 14, 2015, 10:17:46 AM
Through games of Sunday April 12, 2015

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland State (13)   21-2   608   2
2   UW-Whitewater (6)   18-3   577   3
3   Salisbury (3)   21-2   572   1
4   Frostburg State (3)   27-3   554   8
5   Kean   24-6   535   5
6   Shenandoah   18-4-1   455   9
7   UW-Stevens Point   16-5   448   7
8   Heidelberg   19-5   443   4
9   Birmingham-Southern   26-7-1   428   6
10   Millsaps   25-7   367   12
11   Concordia (Texas)   24-6   310   19
12   Wooster   20-4   295   17
13   Wartburg   23-6   235   11
14   St. Thomas   16-8   231   10
15   Misericordia   17-5   219   13
16   Linfield   24-9   213   24
17   Trinity (Texas)   22-9   189   22
18   Baldwin Wallace   16-5   178   16
19   Randolph-Macon   19-7   162   15
20   Rhodes   24-11   123   14
21   Southern Maine   15-6   122   21
22   Methodist   26-8   102   23
23   Ohio Northern   20-5   94   25
24   John Carroll   18-5   77   rv
25   Thomas More   19-4   74   rv
Dropped out: No. 18. Buena Vista, No. 20. Augustana.

Others receiving votes: Pacific Lutheran 70, Mary Washington 66, Tufts 64, Cal Lutheran 58, Adrian 47, Webster 46, Rowan 38, Emory 29, Buena Vista 19, Bridgewater (Va.) 18, Wesleyan (Conn.), Oswego State 11, Texas Lutheran 10, Carthage 5, UW-La Crosse 4, Augustana (Ill.) 2, Bethel (Minn.) 1, Marietta 1, Pomona-Pitzer 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 14, 2015, 01:53:34 PM
I don't get the rankings. UTT had 10 votes a week ago. They sweep LaTourneau a regional qualifyer last year and have now won 7 conference games in a row yet get -0- votes this week. Their only loss in the last two weeks was to an NAIA team LSU-Shreveport.  ???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 14, 2015, 02:41:04 PM
I thought the same thing TexasBB when I posted it. I don't get it, but it will probably more apparent when the Regional rankings come out next month, I would think they would be on the list fairly high.  Massy has them 13th overall.

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cbase2015&sub=11620
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 19, 2015, 03:58:20 PM
UTT took 2 out of 3 from CTX on the Tornados home field. Up until this series, Tyler had not played very well against good teams on the road, so this was very impressive. The first game was a 16 inning marathon won by UTT in which there were 13 pitchers used who combined for 46 Ks. 

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 21, 2015, 05:25:54 PM
Week 9 top West teams

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland State (20)   27-2   620   1
2   Frostburg State (5)   31-3   599   4
3   UW-Whitewater   21-4   578   2
4   Salisbury   24-4   526   3
5   Kean   26-8   492   5
6   Birmingham-Southern   30-7-1   479   6
7   Heidelberg   24-6   458   8
8   Shenandoah   23-7-1   431   6
9   Wooster   24-5   367   12
10   Wartburg   26-7   325   13
11   UW-Stevens Point   19-9   323   7
12   Concordia (Texas)   25-8   261   11
13   Misericordia   21-6   256   15
14   Linfield   27-10   250   16
15   Baldwin Wallace   21-7   243   18
16   Trinity (Texas)   25-10   183   17
17   Millsaps   25-10   179   10
18   Pacific Lutheran   26-9   177   rv
19   Methodist   29-8   156   22
20   Randolph-Macon   22-7   154   19
21   Rhodes   27-11   128   20
22   Ohio Northern   24-7   105   23
23   Cal Lutheran   25-10   101   rv
24   Rowan   22-8   78   rv
25   Mary Washington   27-7   76   rv
Dropped out: No. 14 St. Thomas (Minn.), No. 21 Southern Maine, No. 24 John Carroll, No. 25 Thomas More.

Others receiving votes: Tufts 69, UW-La Crosse 67, Southern Maine 64, St. Thomas (Minn.) 63, Webster 58, Adrian 42, Thomas More 35, John Carroll 25, Wesleyan (Conn.) 24, Oswego State 23, Texas Lutheran 22, Emory 11, Texas-Tyler 11, Bridgewater (Va.) 9, Concordia-Moorhead 9, Ill. Wesleyan 9, Bethel (Minn.) 7, Carthage 6, Clarkson 3, La Roche 2, Marietta 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 21, 2015, 06:30:29 PM
5 in the top 23... not bad for late April.

12   Concordia (Texas)   25-8   261   11
14   Linfield   27-10   250   16
16   Trinity (Texas)   25-10   183   17
18   Pacific Lutheran   26-9   177   rv
23   Cal Lutheran   25-10   101   rv


1) I think it is looking strong for either Linfield or Pac Lu to get a Pool C pick for Western Region.

2) With Trinity's 15-5 out of region record, they'll also get strong consideration for Pool C if they can't get by Tex Lu in SCAC regional.

3) In the back of my mind, it wouldn't surprise me if ASC runner-up gets a Pool C; especially if Tex-Tyler finishes strong after taking 2 of 3 from Concordia TX.  If TT ends up 30+ wins, and hosting, it would get high consideration; as will Concordia.

4) SCIAC will probably only get Pool A (although, surprisingly PP was awarded Pool C 2 years ago with 29-14;  when 6 of those losses were against CLU and Linfield)



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 22, 2015, 12:24:47 AM
IF Cal Lu loses the SCIAC Pool A do they get a Pool C?

Same goes for Linfield in the NWC?

I say yes...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 22, 2015, 10:22:04 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 22, 2015, 12:24:47 AM
IF Cal Lu loses the SCIAC Pool A do they get a Pool C?

Same goes for Linfield in the NWC?

I say yes...
CD3,

I think Linfield is a yes.  I'm not as confident about CLU. 

At this point, I think the outcome of ASC conf tourney will decide who Pool C is.
Tex-Tyler is 16-1 at home; and should win 3 more against Howard Payne, raising total record to 30-10 prior to ASC tourney.  As the host team, that bodes well for West Pool C consideration.  TT has recent strong play (13-2 in last 15 with 2 of 3 from Concordia)
The offset is, TT doesn't have a lot of out of conference to benchmark (although they split with Trinity early in Feb when both were figuring out their rosters). 
Concordia could be 31-8 going into ASC tourney. 
I would think, economics being a role, TT or Concordia will get strong consideration for Pool C unless either have a weak ASC tourney.


Of the 4 Western conferences, SCIAC is least likely to get a Pool C bid.... in my opinion.
SCIAC best chance would be if Trinity soundly defeats TT in SCAC tourney
and for Concordia to struggle in their last 6 games/ASC tourney (they are 5-4 in last 9 games)


The good news is:  all the above mentioned teams control their own destiny.   Just win and all speculation and what-ifs go away.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 22, 2015, 01:05:14 PM
Boy the West is an enigma this year, I really don't know what is going to happen, the SCAC has TLU and Trinity and either one could win the conference, the ASC with UTT and Concordia, the SCIAC is a toss up I think and the NWest appears to have an upcoming battle for their conference with a number of teams in play. I would think that 6 teams could emerge from this but it is really hard to tell at this point and until we see the Regional rankings who has a pool C shot. I am thinking that UTT has a very good opportunity even if they don't win the ASC by hosting.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 22, 2015, 01:59:23 PM
Massey Ratings has West Region teams at:

6. Linfield
7. PLU
8. Texas-Tyler
9. Concordia (TX)
19. Texas Lutheran
29. Trinity (TX)
35. Whitworth
37. Pomona Pitzer
40. Texas-Dallas
43. Cal Lutheran
44. Pacific
45. Redlands

Honestly, I could see any of those teams besides Pacific making the tournament. I think that the NWC sends two teams this year. PLU is pretty much a lock, in my book. Massey Ratings have 6 NWC teams in the top 12 of Strength of Schedule, and I think that helps them.

This is such a muddled year in the West. I still don't see anyone running away with this thing.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 22, 2015, 05:12:21 PM
There is quite a difference in the two ratings systems, not even in the same ballpark. Massey has 4 West teams in the top 10! I note that Massey has recognized UT Dallas, which is quietly making a run having won 10 straight. They are 17-7 in the ASC and swept UT Tyler at Dallas earlier in the season. They started out rough but have improved dramatically as the season has progressed. They are 21-13 on the season. They of course are nowhere to be found on the D3baseball rankings.  Not sure which one is more accurate but Massey seems to better reflect current winning trends.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 22, 2015, 05:23:10 PM
D3 polls are strictly opinions of Knowledgeable Baseball people. From the site:

he D3baseball.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly. Full members of NCAA Division III are eligible.

Massey is stats driven. Problem with Massey is they have a tendency to miss data, when games are not in the system the team is probably not correctly represented. They do eventually seem to catch up, that is why there is such volatility in there poll. It is not uncommon to see teams moving as much as 20 spots up or down from week to week.   

The two really cannot be compared.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on April 22, 2015, 09:51:46 PM
As we know neither poll has any bearing on playoff spots. Pool A is won by winning conference tourney's in the West. Pool C seems to have a real slant to teams with high SOS(strength of schedule) which teams in the West don't have. Regional rankings can be misleading too. Being regionally ranked does not guarantee a Pool C bid but not be regionally rank does seem to guarantee you wont get a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on April 22, 2015, 10:46:54 PM
You have to be ranked high eegionally as well. If you are regionally ranked at 7 or 8, you will probably never get on the board during the selection processed.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 23, 2015, 01:35:04 PM
Where are these members  who vote located?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 23, 2015, 02:02:22 PM
UTT defeated Centenary last night in an non-conference game in Shreveport La. 8-3.  UTT has played 8 games against the top 3 teams of the SCAC and is 5-3 against them.

2-1 against TLU
2-1 against Centenary
1-1 against Trinity
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 23, 2015, 02:06:32 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 14, 2015, 02:41:04 PM
I thought the same thing TexasBB when I posted it. I don't get it, but it will probably more apparent when the Regional rankings come out next month, I would think they would be on the list fairly high.  Massy has them 13th overall.

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cbase2015&sub=11620

d3baseball.com has a note stating that first Regional rankings will come out on April 23rd.   Looking forward to its release.

Mid-page on the 2015 Playoff Central page:
•Regional Rankings - Week 1 - To be released April 23
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 24, 2015, 09:41:58 AM
Here  it is:

WEST REGION   Region                                 
Rank   Institution   In-Division win-loss pct   Overall WL Pct                           
1   Pacific Lutheran   23-7-0 ( 0.767)   26-9-0 ( 0.743)                           
2   Linfield   25-9-0 ( 0.735)   27-10-0 ( 0.730)                           
3   Texas-Tyler   25-9-0 ( 0.735)   26-10-0 ( 0.722)                           
4   Concordia (TX)   25-8-0 ( 0.758)   25-8-0 ( 0.758)                           
5   Cal Lutheran   25-10-0 ( 0.714)   25-10-0 ( 0.714)                           
6   Pomona-Pitzer   25-10-0 ( 0.714)   25-10-0 ( 0.714)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 24, 2015, 10:15:21 AM
Interesting, no teams from the SCAC! ???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 24, 2015, 10:36:43 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 24, 2015, 09:41:58 AM
Here  it is:

WEST REGION   Region                                 
Rank   Institution   In-Division win-loss pct   Overall WL Pct                           
1   Pacific Lutheran   23-7-0 ( 0.767)   26-9-0 ( 0.743)                           
2   Linfield   25-9-0 ( 0.735)   27-10-0 ( 0.730)                           
3   Texas-Tyler   25-9-0 ( 0.735)   26-10-0 ( 0.722)                           
4   Concordia (TX)   25-8-0 ( 0.758)   25-8-0 ( 0.758)                           
5   Cal Lutheran   25-10-0 ( 0.714)   25-10-0 ( 0.714)                           
6   Pomona-Pitzer   25-10-0 ( 0.714)   25-10-0 ( 0.714)

Interesting.
1) Hard to argue against PLU and Linfield as top 2 in the west. 
2) I think they got TT correct.   As I opined earlier in either this thread or ASC thread, I think they are strong Pool C candidates if they don't win ASC tourney outright.  And Concordia, because of Cox, should get a Pool C bid as well if TT wins the ASC.
3) Hard to argue against CLU and PP being top teams in SCIAC.  Not sure they are both better than the top SCAC team.   CLU and PP are both 8-3 out of conference.   CLU is 3-1 against NWC with loss being an 11 inning Linfield come from behind win.
4) No SCAC schools in top 6?  I'm speculating that the Out-of-conf record 12-7 and 7-11 weighed down TLU and Centenary.  TLU 1-2 against TT.  For Trinity:  they are in third, so putting them in Top 6 right now would've been a surprise.  As the SCAC tourney plays out, I expect the winner will jump  ahead of SCIAC winner.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 24, 2015, 10:39:27 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 24, 2015, 09:41:58 AM
Here  it is:

WEST REGION   Region                                 
Rank   Institution   In-Division win-loss pct   Overall WL Pct                           
1   Pacific Lutheran   23-7-0 ( 0.767)   26-9-0 ( 0.743)                           
2   Linfield   25-9-0 ( 0.735)   27-10-0 ( 0.730)                           
3   Texas-Tyler   25-9-0 ( 0.735)   26-10-0 ( 0.722)                           
4   Concordia (TX)   25-8-0 ( 0.758)   25-8-0 ( 0.758)                           
5   Cal Lutheran   25-10-0 ( 0.714)   25-10-0 ( 0.714)                           
6   Pomona-Pitzer   25-10-0 ( 0.714)   25-10-0 ( 0.714)

These will obviously change (and Cal Lu and Pomona have already added a win to make them 26-10) but one thing that is obvious is that three of these teams are guaranteed to add 2 more losses in conference tourneys.  That being said, I think it would make it very tough for the SCAC to get into the Pool C talk at this point since they too will add 2 more losses to the school that doesn't get the Pool A bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 24, 2015, 11:07:50 AM
When Trinity lost 2/3 to SW and TLU it killed any chance of getting an at large bid....plus splitting with CTX and UTT.  The only team from the SCAC in Regionals will be the conference champion. TLU is a very good team but not a National level team IMO, and Trinity while having the talent has not put it all together at the right time. Will they? They have two weekends to get it figured out.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 24, 2015, 04:18:13 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on April 24, 2015, 10:36:43 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 24, 2015, 09:41:58 AM
Here  it is:

WEST REGION   Region                                 
Rank   Institution   In-Division win-loss pct   Overall WL Pct                           
1   Pacific Lutheran   23-7-0 ( 0.767)   26-9-0 ( 0.743)                           
2   Linfield   25-9-0 ( 0.735)   27-10-0 ( 0.730)                           
3   Texas-Tyler   25-9-0 ( 0.735)   26-10-0 ( 0.722)                           
4   Concordia (TX)   25-8-0 ( 0.758)   25-8-0 ( 0.758)                           
5   Cal Lutheran   25-10-0 ( 0.714)   25-10-0 ( 0.714)                           
6   Pomona-Pitzer   25-10-0 ( 0.714)   25-10-0 ( 0.714)

Interesting.
1) Hard to argue against PLU and Linfield as top 2 in the west. 
2) I think they got TT correct.   As I opined earlier in either this thread or ASC thread, I think they are strong Pool C candidates if they don't win ASC tourney outright.  And Concordia, because of Cox, should get a Pool C bid as well if TT wins the ASC.
3) Hard to argue against CLU and PP being top teams in SCIAC.  Not sure they are both better than the top SCAC team.   CLU and PP are both 8-3 out of conference.   CLU is 3-1 against NWC with loss being an 11 inning Linfield come from behind win.
4) No SCAC schools in top 6?  I'm speculating that the Out-of-conf record 12-7 and 7-11 weighed down TLU and Centenary.  TLU 1-2 against TT.  For Trinity:  they are in third, so putting them in Top 6 right now would've been a surprise.  As the SCAC tourney plays out, I expect the winner will jump  ahead of SCIAC winner.

+1 Good insight and analysis.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 24, 2015, 04:54:18 PM
This is the most wide open I have seen the West in a good while. I think three teams that aren't on the first list could very likely make the Regional (NWC winner, SCAC winner, SCIAC winner). Things will be getting wild and crazy in the coming weeks!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 26, 2015, 07:33:24 PM
UTT finished its regular season today with a sweep of Howard Payne. They finished 30-10 overall and 24-6 in the ASC.  CTX still has a 3 game series against Mary Hardin Baylor that will finish on May 2 weather permitting. If CTX wins that series then they will be the regular season champion and get the top seed in the conference tournament. If they loose 2 out of 3 then UTT will get the top seed since they beat CTX head to head. UTT stated the season 0-3 and has really been playing well since the beginning of April going 12-2 with one loss to CTX and one to an NAIA school LSU-Alexandria. They went 12-1 in the conference in April sweeping East Texas Baptist, Le Tourneau and Howard Payne and taking 2 out of 3 from CTX.


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 28, 2015, 11:01:22 AM

# School (1st votes) Rec Pts Prev.
1 Cortland State (22) 32-2 621 1
2 Frostburg State (3) 32-3 600 2
3 UW-Whitewater 25-4 578 3
4 Birmingham-Southern 34-8-1 514 6
5 Salisbury 25-4 509 4
6 Heidelberg 27-7 482 7
7 Wooster 30-5 466 9
8 Shenandoah 27-8-1 420 8
9 Kean 28-10 397 5
10 Baldwin Wallace 27-8 365 15
11 Wartburg 28-9 316 10
12 Methodist 31-8 304 19
13 Rhodes 30-11 252 21
14 Concordia (Texas) 27-9 235 12
15 UW-Stevens Point 21-11 200 11
16 Linfield 28-12 187 14
17 Misericordia 24-8 182 13
18 Trinity (Texas) 28-11 176 16
19 Cal Lutheran 28-10 157 23
20 Ohio Northern 28-8 148 22
21 Pacific Lutheran 28-11 126 18
22 UW-La Crosse 22-10 104 rv
23 Randolph-Macon 24-9 99 20
24 Webster 26-10 76 rv
25 Texas-Tyler 28-9 72 rv

Dropped out: No. 17 Millsaps No. 24 Rowan, No. 25 Mary Washington.

Others receiving votes: Millsaps 68, Southern Maine 53, Whitworth 44, Bethel (Minn.) 44, Mary Washington 43, Tufts 42, Wesleyan (Conn.) 41, Adrian 37, Emory 34, Oswego State 24, Mitchell 17, Rowan 13, Thomas More 11, Bridgewater (Va.) 10, John Carroll 10, Johns Hopkins 6, Rutgers-Camden 5, Pomona-Pitzer 5, Stevens 5, Ill. Wesleyan 4, La Roche 4, Thiel 3, Rose-Hulman 2.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 28, 2015, 02:22:20 PM
They got the record for CTX correct at 27-9 but UTT is 30-10 not 28-9.  They swept this weekend and beat Centenarry on Weds. Last week they were 26-10. The ASC website has the win-loss records posted since Sunday and the school updated their website on Sundaty as well, so I don't know where the DIII poll is getting its info.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 28, 2015, 02:27:15 PM
CTX must sweep Mary Hardin Baylor this weekend or UTT is the regular season champ in the ASC. The confernce regular season champ gets the top seed for the 8 team double ellimination tournament next weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 29, 2015, 02:12:09 PM
CTX plays this series at home, lets see if UMHB can play spoiler. Should be a great weekend of baseball in Austin.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 30, 2015, 09:53:38 AM
Based on the only data point I have on UMHB (from the Trinity game on Tuesday) I would expect CTX to sweep, but it is baseball so you never know.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 30, 2015, 09:55:30 AM
I would also think that both CTX and UTT should go deep into the ASC playoffs and if they do this both should be in the Regional, due to it being at UTT.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on April 30, 2015, 10:49:11 AM
I would expect Boggs to have his guys ready. I have not seen UMHB play this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 30, 2015, 12:12:03 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on April 24, 2015, 10:36:43 AM


Interesting.
1) Hard to argue against PLU and Linfield as top 2 in the west. 
2) I think they got TT correct.   As I opined earlier in either this thread or ASC thread, I think they are strong Pool C candidates if they don't win ASC tourney outright.  And Concordia, because of Cox, should get a Pool C bid as well if TT wins the ASC.
3) Hard to argue against CLU and PP being top teams in SCIAC.  Not sure they are both better than the top SCAC team.   CLU and PP are both 8-3 out of conference.   CLU is 3-1 against NWC with loss being an 11 inning Linfield come from behind win.
4) No SCAC schools in top 6?  I'm speculating that the Out-of-conf record 12-7 and 7-11 weighed down TLU and Centenary.  TLU 1-2 against TT.  For Trinity:  they are in third, so putting them in Top 6 right now would've been a surprise.  As the SCAC tourney plays out, I expect the winner will jump  ahead of SCIAC winner.


Above is my Opining from last week.

1) Thanks to Whitworth, we can now argue about PLU and Linfield being top 2 in west.  I think one of those will get Pool C.  It would be very surprising if PLU doesn't get in ahead of Linfield

2) I continue to believe TT and Concordia will both be in Regionals.  One as A; one as C.   
Of course, Last year most felt G Fox would get in, partially due to tourney being in their back yard.  They ended up watching as 2 teams outside West were flown in.  If CTX loses one to MHB and then struggles in tourney; they could end up like G Fox

3) Redlands defeated PP in Round Robin; probably eliminating PP from Pool C.   CLU has outside chance of C if they don't win SCIAC tourney this week and if CTX struggles.

4) SCAC winner will be only team in West Regionals.  See 1&2 above for who I pick as Pool C


Question:  Would they send a West team to another region?   With Whitworths surprising NWC tourney win, are there 6 other West teams strong enough to send one to another region?   Since NWC would be flying half the country away to Tyler, the cost would be same to Linfield/PLU to go to Midwest somewhere. 
There are 6 teams in top 25; which depending on tourney wins/upsets, may leave room in another region for a West pool C team to be flown in.


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 30, 2015, 03:06:31 PM
Massey NCAA III      
      
1   Frostburg St      33-3   
2   Cortland St      33-2   
3   WI Whitewater      24-4   
4   Salisbury St      24-4-1   
5   Pac Lutheran      27-9   
6   Birmingham So      30-7-1   
7   Concordia TX      26-7   
8   Methodist      29-8   
9   Linfield      27-10   
10 UT Tyler      28-10    
11 Baldwin-Wallace      27-8   
12 Mary Washington   27-7   
13 WI LaCrosse      21-10   
14 Bethel MN      24-5   
15 WI Stevens Pt      21-11   
16 Rhodes      28-11   
17 TX Lutheran      25-8   
18 Ohio Northern      27-8   
19 Webster Univ      25-9   
20 Trinity TX      27-9   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 30, 2015, 03:10:41 PM
Sorry about the formating - did not line up after copying from excel.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 30, 2015, 04:04:25 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 30, 2015, 03:10:41 PM
Sorry about the formating - did not line up after copying from excel.

That's what your friendly "Modify" button is for.   :)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 30, 2015, 04:59:09 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 30, 2015, 03:06:31 PM
Massey NCAA III      
      
1   Frostburg St      33-3   
2   Cortland St      33-2   
3   WI Whitewater      24-4   
4   Salisbury St      24-4-1   
5   Pac Lutheran      27-9   
6   Birmingham So      30-7-1   
7   Concordia TX      26-7   
8   Methodist      29-8   
9   Linfield      27-10   
10 UT Tyler      28-10    
11 Baldwin-Wallace      27-8   
12 Mary Washington   27-7   
13 WI LaCrosse      21-10   
14 Bethel MN      24-5   
15 WI Stevens Pt      21-11   
16 Rhodes      28-11   
17 TX Lutheran      25-8   
18 Ohio Northern      27-8   
19 Webster Univ      25-9   
20 Trinity TX      27-9   

From the West:   4 in the top 10; at least 3 of which won't be Pool A bids.   Looking at this from an optimistic prism, it bodes well that West could have a 3rd Pool C team that is shipped outside of region!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 30, 2015, 07:03:34 PM
Regional Rankings are out!

WEST         
1   Pacific Lutheran   25-9-0 ( 0.735)   28-11-0 ( 0.718)
2   Texas-Tyler   29-9-0 ( 0.763)   30-10-0 ( 0.750)
3   Linfield   26-11-0 ( 0.703)   28-12-0 ( 0.700)
4   Concordia (TX)   27-9-0 ( 0.750)   27-9-0 ( 0.750)
5   Cal Lutheran   28-10-0 ( 0.737)   28-10-0 ( 0.737)
6   Whitworth   27-12-0 ( 0.692)   28-13-0 ( 0.683)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 30, 2015, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: Westside on April 30, 2015, 07:03:34 PM
Regional Rankings are out!

WEST         
1   Pacific Lutheran   25-9-0 ( 0.735)   28-11-0 ( 0.718)
2   Texas-Tyler   29-9-0 ( 0.763)   30-10-0 ( 0.750)
3   Linfield   26-11-0 ( 0.703)   28-12-0 ( 0.700)
4   Concordia (TX)   27-9-0 ( 0.750)   27-9-0 ( 0.750)
5   Cal Lutheran   28-10-0 ( 0.737)   28-10-0 ( 0.737)
6   Whitworth   27-12-0 ( 0.692)   28-13-0 ( 0.683)

What I see with this:

1. PLU- POOL C, pretty much a lock to get in
2. UTT- Still a shot at POOL A, likely picked for POOL C
3. Linfield- POOL C, need wins this weekend, could be sent to another region depending on what the other regions look like
4. Concordia- Still a shot at POOL A and definitely questionable to POOL C if they don't get the auto-bid
5. Cal Lu- only shot is getting the POOL A with too many POOL C teams ahead of them.  Probably rooting for a lot of top seeds to win their auto-bids.  One positive is they are 4-2 against Regionally Ranked teams from the West. (once ranked, always ranked)
6. Whitworth- POOL A, already in

The worst thing to happen for some of these schools was Whitworth winning the NCW auto-bid.  Knowing that the SCAC will have an auto-bid into the West Regional means nobody in the West can look at the Pool C with a lot of confidence, other than PLU.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 01, 2015, 10:58:26 AM
While polls and ratings are fun to look at, the only one that ever matters is the NCAA Regional Poll. Everything else is created by people who have NO influence on the selections.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2015, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on April 30, 2015, 12:12:03 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on April 24, 2015, 10:36:43 AM


Interesting.
1) Hard to argue against PLU and Linfield as top 2 in the west. 
2) I think they got TT correct.   As I opined earlier in either this thread or ASC thread, I think they are strong Pool C candidates if they don't win ASC tourney outright.  And Concordia, because of Cox, should get a Pool C bid as well if TT wins the ASC.
3) Hard to argue against CLU and PP being top teams in SCIAC.  Not sure they are both better than the top SCAC team.   CLU and PP are both 8-3 out of conference.   CLU is 3-1 against NWC with loss being an 11 inning Linfield come from behind win.
4) No SCAC schools in top 6?  I'm speculating that the Out-of-conf record 12-7 and 7-11 weighed down TLU and Centenary.  TLU 1-2 against TT.  For Trinity:  they are in third, so putting them in Top 6 right now would've been a surprise.  As the SCAC tourney plays out, I expect the winner will jump  ahead of SCIAC winner.


Above is my Opining from last week.

1) Thanks to Whitworth, we can now argue about PLU and Linfield being top 2 in west.  I think one of those will get Pool C.  It would be very surprising if PLU doesn't get in ahead of Linfield

2) I continue to believe TT and Concordia will both be in Regionals.  One as A; one as C.   
Of course, Last year most felt G Fox would get in, partially due to tourney being in their back yard.  They ended up watching as 2 teams outside West were flown in.  If CTX loses one to MHB and then struggles in tourney; they could end up like G Fox

3) Redlands defeated PP in Round Robin; probably eliminating PP from Pool C.   CLU has outside chance of C if they don't win SCIAC tourney this week and if CTX struggles.

4) SCAC winner will be only team in West Regionals.  See 1&2 above for who I pick as Pool C


Question:  Would they send a West team to another region?   With Whitworths surprising NWC tourney win, are there 6 other West teams strong enough to send one to another region?   Since NWC would be flying half the country away to Tyler, the cost would be same to Linfield/PLU to go to Midwest somewhere. 
There are 6 teams in top 25; which depending on tourney wins/upsets, may leave room in another region for a West pool C team to be flown in.
They have. A plane flight is a plane flight.

It might be cheaper to fly a NWC team to the midwest (lower case "m") area of the country than to Tyler.

Rhodes is within 500 miles of Tyler.  A Pool C bid to another region gives the tourney a more national flavor at no real expense.

I like the idea of the Pool C bids being sent out-of-region when possible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on May 01, 2015, 09:29:06 PM
SCIAC tournament started today with both Pomona-Pitzer and Cal Lutheran dropping their first games. Hard to see any way for the SCIAC to come up with a Pool C unless Cal Lu can win two tomorrow and force a second game on Sunday. Even then, they'd need a lot of help from tournament favorites across the country.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 02, 2015, 10:37:53 PM
CTX won the first two games against UMHB but dropped the last game. That  made UTT the regular season conference champ and top seed for next weeks ASC conference tournament. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on May 02, 2015, 11:42:15 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 02, 2015, 10:37:53 PM
CTX won the first two games against UMHB but dropped the last game. That  made UTT the regular season conference champ and top seed for next weeks ASC conference tournament.
Will that impact CTX chances for Pool C?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2015, 07:19:24 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on May 02, 2015, 11:42:15 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 02, 2015, 10:37:53 PM
CTX won the first two games against UMHB but dropped the last game. That  made UTT the regular season conference champ and top seed for next weeks ASC conference tournament.
Will that impact CTX chances for Pool C?
Other than not sleeping in their own beds...
Win and get in. Getting  a Pool C bid from the ASC will help the conference.

I think that the ASC is a strong conference with lots of depth. If CTX makes it to the finals, then I think that they deserve a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2015, 10:40:27 AM
#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland State (24)   36-3   624   1
2   Frostburg State   35-5   577   2
3   UW-Whitewater (1)   30-7   572   3
4   Salisbury   27-4   521   5
5   Kean   32-10   457   9
6   Birmingham-Southern   34-10-1   443   4
7   Baldwin Wallace   31-8   433   12
8   Rhodes   32-11   418   13
9   Heidelberg   29-10   414   6
10   Shenandoah   27-8-1   408   8
11   Wooster   33-7   392   7
12   Methodist   32-8   338   12
13   UW-Stevens Point   27-11   311   15
14   Wartburg   30-10   256   11
15   Concordia (Texas)   29-10   221   14
16   Ohio Northern   30-9   202   20
17   UW-La Crosse   28-10   180   22
18   Trinity (Texas)   33-12   157   18
19   Linfield   30-13   155   16

20   Cal Lutheran   32-12   139   19
21   Pacific Lutheran   30-12   134   21

22   Webster   29-11   105   24
23   Misericordia   26-10   92   17
24   Texas-Tyler   30-10   88   25
25   Wesleyan   25-8   80   rv
Dropped out: No. 23 Randolph-Macon.

Others receiving votes: Adrian 47, Bethel (Minn.) 44, Southern Maine 40, Tufts 36, Millsaps 36, Whitworth 33, Randolph-Macon 32, Emory 30, Mary Washington 27, Thomas More 16, Oswego State 15, La Roche  10, Johns Hopkins 10, Clarkson 6, John Carroll 4, Stevens 2.

The D3baseball.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly. Full members of NCAA Division III are eligible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on May 05, 2015, 11:37:19 AM
Not that this poll matters as the Regional and super-secret committee rankings are more important,

but that's a very tight grouping of the 6 West teams!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tigerfan_2001 on May 05, 2015, 11:54:37 AM
it will be interesting to see if the committee values head to head over other criteria
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Sluggerdad on May 05, 2015, 11:57:20 AM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on May 05, 2015, 11:37:19 AM
Not that this poll matters as the Regional and super-secret committee rankings are more important,

but that's a very tight grouping of the 6 West teams!


Thing is two of the conference winners are not among the 6.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on May 05, 2015, 01:32:16 PM
Also take int consideration that the following teams also grabbed pool A bids and they are not ranked in their regions.

Methodist, Shenandoah, and Suffolk.

That means the top regionally ranked teams from those regions are in Pool C consideration.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2015, 01:44:19 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on May 05, 2015, 01:32:16 PM
Also take int consideration that the following teams also grabbed pool A bids and they are not ranked in their regions.

Methodist, Shenandoah, and Suffolk.

That means the top regionally ranked teams from those regions are in Pool C consideration.

Great points BLD, also Birmingham Southern lost in their conference so they make an attractive team to be brought into Tyler. It is going to be a very interesting Monday next week.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 07, 2015, 03:15:19 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2015, 01:44:19 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on May 05, 2015, 01:32:16 PM
Also take int consideration that the following teams also grabbed pool A bids and they are not ranked in their regions.

Methodist, Shenandoah, and Suffolk.

That means the top regionally ranked teams from those regions are in Pool C consideration.

Great points BLD, also Birmingham Southern lost in their conference so they make an attractive team to be brought into Tyler. It is going to be a very interesting Monday next week.
Actually, BSC would be sent to Piedmont (less than 500 miles). :)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 07, 2015, 03:19:16 PM
Ralph's right as usual.   544 miles from BSC to UTT per Google (which I know is not official) and Birmingham to Tyler clocks in at 548.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on May 07, 2015, 07:19:46 PM
Newest Regional Rankings are out.

West Region   

1   Pacific Lutheran   27-10-0 ( 0.730)   30-12-0 ( 0.714)
2   Texas-Tyler   29-9-0 ( 0.763)   30-10-0 ( 0.750)
3   Linfield   28-12-0 ( 0.700)   30-13-0 ( 0.698)
4   Cal Lutheran   32-12-0 ( 0.727)   32-12-0 ( 0.727)
5   Concordia (TX)   29-10-0 ( 0.744)   29-10-0 ( 0.744)
6   Whitworth   27-12-0 ( 0.692)   28-13-0 ( 0.683)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on May 07, 2015, 08:08:55 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 07, 2015, 07:19:46 PM
Newest Regional Rankings are out.

West Region   

1   Pacific Lutheran   27-10-0 ( 0.730)   30-12-0 ( 0.714)
2   Texas-Tyler   29-9-0 ( 0.763)   30-10-0 ( 0.750)
3   Linfield   28-12-0 ( 0.700)   30-13-0 ( 0.698)
4   Cal Lutheran   32-12-0 ( 0.727)   32-12-0 ( 0.727)
5   Concordia (TX)   29-10-0 ( 0.744)   29-10-0 ( 0.744)
6   Whitworth   27-12-0 ( 0.692)   28-13-0 ( 0.683)

Interesting that CLU jumped ahead of Concordia.    Not knowing anything, I think that means they need to win the ASC tourney to have a chance to get in as their chance of being Pool C was just reduced.   

Will Pool C pick two NWC's and have a third in Pool A?   
If they do, I wouldn't think all 3 NWC's to be in the west.  I expect if they did, they would ship one to another region 

With Linfield and CLU at 3 & 4, I wonder if the committee would only take PLU and TT (if they come in second at ASC) as Pool C. 
And if TT wins ASC, they'll import a Pool C from another region. 


The final picks on the 10th should be very interesting.   

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 07, 2015, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on May 07, 2015, 08:08:55 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 07, 2015, 07:19:46 PM
Newest Regional Rankings are out.

West Region   

1   Pacific Lutheran   27-10-0 ( 0.730)   30-12-0 ( 0.714)
2   Texas-Tyler   29-9-0 ( 0.763)   30-10-0 ( 0.750)
3   Linfield   28-12-0 ( 0.700)   30-13-0 ( 0.698)
4   Cal Lutheran   32-12-0 ( 0.727)   32-12-0 ( 0.727)
5   Concordia (TX)   29-10-0 ( 0.744)   29-10-0 ( 0.744)
6   Whitworth   27-12-0 ( 0.692)   28-13-0 ( 0.683)

Interesting that CLU jumped ahead of Concordia.    Not knowing anything, I think that means they need to win the ASC tourney to have a chance to get in as their chance of being Pool C was just reduced.   

Will Pool C pick two NWC's and have a third in Pool A?   
If they do, I wouldn't think all 3 NWC's to be in the west.  I expect if they did, they would ship one to another region 

With Linfield and CLU at 3 & 4, I wonder if the committee would only take PLU and TT (if they come in second at ASC) as Pool C. 
And if TT wins ASC, they'll import a Pool C from another region. 


The final picks on the 10th should be very interesting.

Here is what we know for sure:
1. La Verne
2. Trinity
3. Whitworth

Those teams are all in.

Here is what is still up for grabs.

4. ASC Champ is in
5. PLU is in
6. If Concordia wins the ASC, that leaves this spot for UTT.  If UTT wins, this spot is open for Linfield, CLU or Concordia.  The way the NCAA hides the final rankings leaves them the option to put Concordia in so they don't have to spend on a flight.  I think Linfield might still get a shot, but in a different region.  This leaves CLU at home.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2015, 08:25:09 PM
The committee looks are recent results and Linfield has lost 4 of their last 7 games and 2 of 3 to PLU, so likely they are out......but who knows.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2015, 08:27:16 PM
Jack Parkman nailed it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on May 07, 2015, 08:36:31 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2015, 08:25:09 PM
The committee looks are recent results and Linfield has lost 4 of their last 7 games and 2 of 3 to PLU, so likely they are out......but who knows.

True.. I brought this up on one of the sub-boards.   That Linfield 3-4 in last 7 doesn't bode well nor does finishing 3rd in tourney.
PLU has been 3-3; but finished #1 in regular season NWC and #2 in tourney.  They should be a shoe-in for #1 Pool C.


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on May 07, 2015, 09:16:14 PM
In that same vein, Cal Lu just lost two games to La Verne. Whoever loses the ASC will lose two games this weekend. So it is pretty much a wash. Concordia won't jump Linfield unless they win the tourney. Cal Lu is finished, so they won't jump anyone. Like it or not, they like Linfield's resume, and don't dock them much for losing three games by a combined 4 runs to Whitworth and PLU.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2015, 10:26:10 PM
...and Linfield is 2,100 miles from Tyler TX and CTX is a 3 hr drive....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on May 07, 2015, 10:31:48 PM
Laughable Concordia is 4th in the region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 07, 2015, 10:36:45 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2015, 10:26:10 PM
...and Linfield is 2,100 miles from Tyler TX and CTX is a 3 hr drive....

Absolutely correct.  The NCAA isn't going to spend money if they don't have to. 

My only question is this:  Would the NCAA be able to justify sending Concordia while leaving Linfield at home?  I ask this for one simple reason- Linfield has stayed #3 in the RR while Concordia has dropped one spot.  It might not seem like much but the 2 teams Concordia has beat are 13-26 (UMHB) and 20-21 (ETBU).  I understand 100% that the NCAA will do absolutely everything in their power to avoid flights, but leaving Linfield at home would be a shame.  No matter what, Linfield requires a flight so it really doesn't matter where they go.  Sending someone to Tyler from outside of the West would require a flight (I think) so it really ends up being a double-edged sword for the NCAA.  Save money or put a team in with less of a resume.  Of course it all goes out the window if Concordia wins the ASC Tourney.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 07, 2015, 10:39:22 PM
Quote from: BamColt on May 07, 2015, 10:31:48 PM
Laughable Concordia is 4th in the region.

Not necessarily.  Here is the issue with Concordia, they have played a total of 3 games (with a 4th coming tomorrow) against regionally ranked teams, and they went 1-2.  I understand the frustration, but I think that is the biggest thing against them.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on May 07, 2015, 10:41:43 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2015, 10:26:10 PM
...and Linfield is 2,100 miles from Tyler TX and CTX is a 3 hr drive....

I think the NCAA is past that point of contention. Just last year they chose to bring in two non-West teams when everyone thought George Fox would make it and their campus is literally 15 minutes from Linfield. The same thing happened in 2011 when Linfield hosted, they were in the regional rankings and they didn't even make their own hosted regional, instead they flow in two non-West region teams. I just really don't think they are going to choose a team based solely on proximity.

For what it is worth, I think Concordia makes it and Linfield gets shipped to another regional.

Edit: looks like Jack and I are agreeing to disagree  :P
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 07, 2015, 10:51:11 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 07, 2015, 10:41:43 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 07, 2015, 10:26:10 PM
...and Linfield is 2,100 miles from Tyler TX and CTX is a 3 hr drive....



Edit: looks like Jack and I are agreeing to disagree  :P

Nope, I agree with that 100%.  I was just saying the NCAA would have a real hard time explaining themselves if Concordia doesn't win the ASC and they left Linfield at home.  I think Linfield ends up in Waverly or La Crosse.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 07, 2015, 11:14:32 PM
Supposedly (by the insistence of various selection committee members) potential travel costs are not considered at all in the initial selection.   (The bean counters, of course, figure prominently in decisions on WHERE selected teams will lay.)  Human nature being what it is, I have trouble believing that 100%, but will accept that it is probably not consciously a factor, nor is it probably a point of discussion in selection decisions.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 07, 2015, 11:53:08 PM
I bet either Cal Lu or Linfield gets......Strange illogical things happen with Pool C. Neither should. Many years Pool C teams don't pass the smell test, while other 30 win teams stay home. Linfield has 30 wins and I bet they get in. Last year Chapman had 30 and they stayed home.



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 08, 2015, 12:07:56 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 07, 2015, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on May 07, 2015, 08:08:55 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 07, 2015, 07:19:46 PM
Newest Regional Rankings are out.

West Region   

1   Pacific Lutheran   27-10-0 ( 0.730)   30-12-0 ( 0.714)
2   Texas-Tyler   29-9-0 ( 0.763)   30-10-0 ( 0.750)
3   Linfield   28-12-0 ( 0.700)   30-13-0 ( 0.698)
4   Cal Lutheran   32-12-0 ( 0.727)   32-12-0 ( 0.727)
5   Concordia (TX)   29-10-0 ( 0.744)   29-10-0 ( 0.744)
6   Whitworth   27-12-0 ( 0.692)   28-13-0 ( 0.683)

Interesting that CLU jumped ahead of Concordia.    Not knowing anything, I think that means they need to win the ASC tourney to have a chance to get in as their chance of being Pool C was just reduced.   

Will Pool C pick two NWC's and have a third in Pool A?   
If they do, I wouldn't think all 3 NWC's to be in the west.  I expect if they did, they would ship one to another region 

With Linfield and CLU at 3 & 4, I wonder if the committee would only take PLU and TT (if they come in second at ASC) as Pool C. 
And if TT wins ASC, they'll import a Pool C from another region. 


The final picks on the 10th should be very interesting.

Here is what we know for sure:
1. La Verne
2. Trinity
3. Whitworth

Those teams are all in.

Here is what is still up for grabs.

4. ASC Champ is in
5. PLU is in
6. If Concordia wins the ASC, that leaves this spot for UTT.  If UTT wins, this spot is open for Linfield, CLU or Concordia.  The way the NCAA hides the final rankings leaves them the option to put Concordia in so they don't have to spend on a flight.  I think Linfield might still get a shot, but in a different region.  This leaves CLU at home.
UTT should also be in ahead of Linfield but.......lets see what happens
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on May 08, 2015, 12:13:09 AM
1. La Verne
2. Trinity
3. Whitworth
4. ASC Champ
5. PLU
6. UTT if not ASC Champ

Who is out
Linfield
Cal Lu
Concordia TX
All 30 win teams

Fair thing would be to have play in games for Pool C but travel costs wont let this happen. NCAA salaries take care of this.

http://www.universityherald.com/articles/10419/20140715/mark-emmert-salary-ncaa-president-gets-a-raise-made-1-7m-in-2012-2013-fiscal-year.htm
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on May 08, 2015, 12:16:04 AM
Crash - UTT is ahead of Linfield... on a side note, I am interested to hear your anti-Linfield reasoning. I feel like you've been ragging on them all season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 08, 2015, 09:35:32 AM
Big game today in the ASC with CTX vs UTT. Cox will be going for CTX, not sure about UTT but whoever wins this will be in the drivers seat. CTX must win this game or they will be out of contention for the Regional IMO.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on May 08, 2015, 11:32:26 AM
Concordia should very much be in the hunt for an automatic bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 02:21:21 PM
Records against Regionally Ranked Opponents for the top 4 candidates for a POOL C from the West:

UT Tyler- 2-1 against Concordia
Concordia- 1-2 against UT Tyler
Cal Lu- 6-3 (2-0 vs Whitworth, 0-1 vs Wesleyan, 0-1 vs Linfield, 1-0 vs MIT, 3-1 vs Pomona)
Linfield- 6-5 (1-4 vs PLU, 1-0 vs Cal Lu, 1-0 vs Wesleyan, 3-1 vs Whitworth) *FIXED

Just facts, no opinion.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on May 08, 2015, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 02:21:21 PM
Records against Regionally Ranked Opponents for the top 4 candidates for a POOL C from the West:

UT Tyler- 2-1 against Concordia
Concordia- 1-2 against UT Tyler
Cal Lu- 6-3 (2-0 vs Whitworth, 0-1 vs Wesleyan, 0-1 vs Linfield, 1-0 vs MIT, 3-1 vs Pomona)
Linfield- 5-5 (1-4 vs PLU, 1-0 vs Cal Lu, 1-0 vs Wesleyan)

Just facts, no opinion.

Correction - Linfield is 6-5 (above games, plus 3-1 vs. Whitworth)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on May 08, 2015, 02:49:25 PM
Concordia split with Trinity. They were ranked 15th at the time of their win in Austin. Not sure if that would count.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on May 08, 2015, 02:49:49 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 02:21:21 PM
Records against Regionally Ranked Opponents for the top 4 candidates for a POOL C from the West:

UT Tyler- 2-1 against Concordia
Concordia- 1-2 against UT Tyler
Cal Lu- 6-3 (2-0 vs Whitworth, 0-1 vs Wesleyan, 0-1 vs Linfield, 1-0 vs MIT, 3-1 vs Pomona)
Linfield- 5-5 (1-4 vs PLU, 1-0 vs Cal Lu, 1-0 vs Wesleyan)

Just facts, no opinion.

And PLU is 6-4.

Also, Pomona isn't ranked... so Cal Lu would be 3-2.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 08, 2015, 03:04:31 PM
Quote from: BamColt on May 08, 2015, 02:49:25 PM
Concordia split with Trinity. They were ranked 15th at the time of their win in Austin. Not sure if that would count.

Trinity was never regionally ranked by the NCAA to my knowledge.   The D3 ratings aren't factored into the selection criteria.    Not sure 2-3 would do much more for CTX than 1-2 even had they been.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 03:13:02 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 08, 2015, 02:49:49 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 02:21:21 PM
Records against Regionally Ranked Opponents for the top 4 candidates for a POOL C from the West:

UT Tyler- 2-1 against Concordia
Concordia- 1-2 against UT Tyler
Cal Lu- 6-3 (2-0 vs Whitworth, 0-1 vs Wesleyan, 0-1 vs Linfield, 1-0 vs MIT, 3-1 vs Pomona)
Linfield- 5-5 (1-4 vs PLU, 1-0 vs Cal Lu, 1-0 vs Wesleyan)

Just facts, no opinion.

And PLU is 6-4.

Also, Pomona isn't ranked... so Cal Lu would be 3-2.

I didn't add PLU since they are a lock since they are the #1 ranked team in the Region.

Pomona was ranked week 1 and I believe it is "once ranked, always ranked."  Can anyone let me know if I am wrong on that?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 08, 2015, 04:08:00 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 03:13:02 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 08, 2015, 02:49:49 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 02:21:21 PM
Records against Regionally Ranked Opponents for the top 4 candidates for a POOL C from the West:

UT Tyler- 2-1 against Concordia
Concordia- 1-2 against UT Tyler
Cal Lu- 6-3 (2-0 vs Whitworth, 0-1 vs Wesleyan, 0-1 vs Linfield, 1-0 vs MIT, 3-1 vs Pomona)
Linfield- 5-5 (1-4 vs PLU, 1-0 vs Cal Lu, 1-0 vs Wesleyan)

Just facts, no opinion.

And PLU is 6-4.

Also, Pomona isn't ranked... so Cal Lu would be 3-2.

I didn't add PLU since they are a lock since they are the #1 ranked team in the Region.

Pomona was ranked week 1 and I believe it is "once ranked, always ranked."  Can anyone let me know if I am wrong on that?

At least in basketball, that is no longer true.  ONLY the final (secret) rankings count.  The rules are usually consistent across sports, so it is probably no longer true in baseball either (though I don't know for sure).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on May 08, 2015, 04:29:56 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 03:13:02 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 08, 2015, 02:49:49 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 02:21:21 PM
Records against Regionally Ranked Opponents for the top 4 candidates for a POOL C from the West:

UT Tyler- 2-1 against Concordia
Concordia- 1-2 against UT Tyler
Cal Lu- 6-3 (2-0 vs Whitworth, 0-1 vs Wesleyan, 0-1 vs Linfield, 1-0 vs MIT, 3-1 vs Pomona)
Linfield- 5-5 (1-4 vs PLU, 1-0 vs Cal Lu, 1-0 vs Wesleyan)

Just facts, no opinion.

And PLU is 6-4.

Also, Pomona isn't ranked... so Cal Lu would be 3-2.

I didn't add PLU since they are a lock since they are the #1 ranked team in the Region.

Pomona was ranked week 1 and I believe it is "once ranked, always ranked."  Can anyone let me know if I am wrong on that?

I did read earlier in year that "once ranked, always ranked" applied.   I'll look for the link and post.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on May 08, 2015, 04:52:54 PM
The championship manual reads:
- results of ranked Div III opponents as established by the rankings at time of selection.


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on May 08, 2015, 04:52:54 PM
The championship manual reads:
- results of ranked Div III opponents as established by the rankings at time of selection.

As such, games against Whitworth, PP, MIT wouldn't currently count.
UTT:  2-1
Concordia:  1-2
CLU:  0-2
Linf:  2-4

- Wesleyan is #25 and should stay in Rankings depending on results of todays game.
- UTT and Concordia are expected to play each other 1-2 more times; which will change their results.-
- TT is currently #23.  If they don't make finals, their two losses might drop them out of Rankings.

The only rankings that matter are the regional rankings.  The rankings voted on by the pollsters have absolutely zero to do with the selections.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 06:14:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 08, 2015, 04:08:00 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 03:13:02 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 08, 2015, 02:49:49 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2015, 02:21:21 PM
Records against Regionally Ranked Opponents for the top 4 candidates for a POOL C from the West:

UT Tyler- 2-1 against Concordia
Concordia- 1-2 against UT Tyler
Cal Lu- 6-3 (2-0 vs Whitworth, 0-1 vs Wesleyan, 0-1 vs Linfield, 1-0 vs MIT, 3-1 vs Pomona)
Linfield- 5-5 (1-4 vs PLU, 1-0 vs Cal Lu, 1-0 vs Wesleyan)

Just facts, no opinion.

And PLU is 6-4.

Also, Pomona isn't ranked... so Cal Lu would be 3-2.

I didn't add PLU since they are a lock since they are the #1 ranked team in the Region.

Pomona was ranked week 1 and I believe it is "once ranked, always ranked."  Can anyone let me know if I am wrong on that?

At least in basketball, that is no longer true.  ONLY the final (secret) rankings count.  The rules are usually consistent across sports, so it is probably no longer true in baseball either (though I don't know for sure).

Thanks Mr. Ypsi, I wasn't sure about it at all and just remember that it was once that way.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 28, 2015, 12:17:39 PM
A quick wrap up on the CWS for West teams.

Prior to going to the CWS some of Trinity players had been hanging out with some of the Linfield players  (from past years)  and they heard from them that the toughest part was getting there., After experiencing it I would agree. At least from the teams in the West that I saw play this year, Linfield, Millsaps, La Verne, TLU, Concordia, Centenary, UTT and others could compete quite well with the teams that were at Appleton this year. I thought that Cortland and Trinity were easily the best teams there, and it is too bad we did not get to see these teams play each other, but that does not matter as Cortland deserves to be applauded for a great season and is an excellent champion.

I can also see they some of the past Midwest winners did well there as you have to have a very deep pitching staff. (particularly in the old format) This is something that is a challenge for West teams and IMO if a team thinks they have what it takes to break though a Regional they have to take the time to develop other pitchers during the regular season.  It may cost them some wins but will pay dividends once Regionals start, and hopefully the CWS. The other requirement is to have a dominant number 1 pitcher, you have to win the first game as coming through the loser bracket is difficult, it can be done, but the margin for error drops dramatically.

Except for the weather (this year at least) the Appleton location is excellent, lots of hotels, restaurants, and the fan and community support is unbelievable. The field is perfect and easily supports the attendees.  My only complaint is that the NCAA does not allow for enough time to get the tournament done if there is inclement weather or if one of the pools plays longer than the other. This created some unfortunate decisions that the NCAA had to make and IMO could have changed the outcome.  This does not take anything away from Cortland, but it is something I think the NCAA has to take into account with the new format.

The new format is a huge improvement over the ones from past years and I really like the 2/3 for the last series to pick a champion.

I also like the fact that during Regionals some West teams are getting shipped to other locations. I think the West and South are at a disadvantage as far as breaking through a Regional. Two years ago when Linfield won the CWS there were at least two other teams that should have been at the CWS, but were not, because they were all in the West. I would like to see more National rankings when selecting Regional teams and if necessary more some West teams out, not the other way around as has happened in the past. There is NO question in my mind that the West should have 6 West teams in their regional, fictitious Regional rankings be dammed, there is really high quality baseball played in the West, and as good or better than anywhere else in the country.

Trinity represented the West well, the team played very well, and take a few breaks away, they are in the championship series, which is what you want to see from your region. We had as many fans and were cheering louder than the semi-home team (UW-LC) which is a tribute to the West baseball fans who have to travel around to see their teams play. It was really fun to see a number or locals come out and follow our team through multiple games and cheer with us. A big thank you to those Appltonites who came out for us.

Finally to all of the past Trinity players, coaches and families - the program no longer has to bear the label  "best program to not make it to a CWS" Winning a CWS series would have been sweet but removing that label is pretty special for a bunch of Seniors.

Cheers!





Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on May 29, 2015, 12:47:51 AM
We had Eastern Connecticut State (CWS Champion) out of the gates. Lost in the 10th.
i thought the same thing, Trinity, Pamona Pitzer were head and shoulders better programs than 4 of the regional winners. West gets somewhat screwed year after year.

Not to mention our second game against Lakeland was 32 and sleeting. Wish it was just a little more south.

The locals are incredible and everyone in that community supports this tournament to the fullest.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 29, 2015, 12:54:42 PM
Here is the interview with UMHB Head Coach Ben Shipp who was national committee chair this year.

We got lucky that Millsaps could be sent to Tyler (and would not have been able to be bussed to Austin or Abilene). That bus trip gave the committee the flexibility to fly PLU to the South Region.

I will continue to applaud every chance the committee gets to fly a West Region team out of Region

http://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/2015/state-of-the-game
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 29, 2015, 01:04:00 PM
+1! for the wrap-up!

Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 28, 2015, 12:17:39 PM
A quick wrap up on the CWS for West teams.

Prior to going to the CWS some of Trinity players had been hanging out with some of the Linfield players  (from past years)  and they heard from them that the toughest part was getting there., After experiencing it I would agree. At least from the teams in the West that I saw play this year, ...


Linfield, Millsaps, La Verne, TLU, Concordia, Centenary, UTT and others could compete quite well with the teams that were at Appleton this year.

I thought that Cortland and Trinity were easily the best teams there, and it is too bad we did not get to see these teams play each other, but that does not matter as Cortland deserves to be applauded for a great season and is an excellent champion.

I can also see they some of the past Midwest winners did well there as you have to have a very deep pitching staff. (particularly in the old format) This is something that is a challenge for West teams and IMO if a team thinks they have what it takes to break though a Regional ...

they have to take the time to develop other pitchers during the regular season.  It may cost them some wins but will pay dividends once Regionals start, if you happen to win the conference tourney as the #3 seed

and hopefully the CWS. The other requirement is to have a dominant number 1 pitcher, you have to win the first game as coming through the loser bracket is difficult, it can be done, but the margin for error drops dramatically.

Except for the weather (this year at least) the Appleton location is excellent, lots of hotels, restaurants, and the fan and community support is unbelievable. The field is perfect and easily supports the attendees. ... (Coach Shipp addresses this. The NCAA championship is a big deal in that town and they support it well!)

...My only complaint is that the NCAA does not allow for enough time to get the tournament done if there is inclement weather or if one of the pools plays longer than the other. This created some unfortunate decisions that the NCAA had to make and IMO could have changed the outcome.  This does not take anything away from Cortland, but it is something I think the NCAA has to take into account with the new format.

The new format is a huge improvement over the ones from past years and I really like the 2/3 for the last series to pick a champion.

I also like the fact that during Regionals some West teams are getting shipped to other locations. I think the West and South are at a disadvantage as far as breaking through a Regional. Two years ago when Linfield won the CWS there were at least two other teams that should have been at the CWS, but were not, because they were all in the West. I would like to see more National rankings when selecting Regional teams and if necessary more some West teams out, not the other way around as has happened in the past. There is NO question in my mind that the West should have 6 West teams in their regional, fictitious Regional rankings be dammed, there is really high quality baseball played in the West, and as good or better than anywhere else in the country.

Trinity represented the West well, the team played very well, and take a few breaks away, they are in the championship series, which is what you want to see from your region. We had as many fans and were cheering louder than the semi-home team (UW-LC) which is a tribute to the West baseball fans who have to travel around to see their teams play. It was really fun to see a number or locals come out and follow our team through multiple games and cheer with us. A big thank you to those Appltonites who came out for us.

Finally to all of the past Trinity players, coaches and families - the program no longer has to bear the label  "best program to not make it to a CWS" Winning a CWS series would have been sweet but removing that label is pretty special for a bunch of Seniors.

Cheers!

The allocation for baseball championships is one bid is budgeted (by the NCAA and Thank you March  Madness TV money!) for every 6.5 schools that play the sport.  Under the old March Madness TV contract we were allocated one bid for every 7.5 schools playing baseball, etc.  The extra money increased the Pool C bids from ~2 to ~14!

15% of the teams in a region are ranked, regardless of the number of teams in a region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on May 29, 2015, 04:59:38 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 28, 2015, 12:17:39 PM

Prior to going to the CWS some of Trinity players had been hanging out with some of the Linfield players  (from past years)  and they heard from them that the toughest part was getting there.


Except for the weather (this year at least) the Appleton location is excellent, lots of hotels, restaurants, and the fan and community support is unbelievable.



Trinity represented the West well


Agreed.

Agreed.

Agreed. Kudos to Trinity on a great season and to their coaching staff for finally getting the World Series monkey off of its back.

My way too early predictions for next season has Trinity and PLU has the frontrunners in the West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BamColt on June 01, 2015, 10:41:12 AM
The NCAA makes how much each year? They should have no problems flying teams to the correct regions.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 01, 2015, 11:00:41 AM
Only 3.18% of that money is in the Division III budget, however.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on June 01, 2015, 01:50:53 PM
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cbase2015&sub=11620

A few final comments on team rankings, the West and how the NCAA does a huge disservice to the region.

The data is almost complete and is purely analytical, no "voting". Note that 7 of the top 20 teams are from the West.

Also note that 14 of the top 20 teams were either from the West, South or Wisconsin teams. Now how come the NCAA put those power house groups in the same pool at the CWS this year?

Hmmmm, could we have a  bias on trying to make it so a South, West or Wisconsin teams don't dominate at the CWS?  Seems odd to me.

Following up on what some of the Trinity players who were talking with the Linfield players, and after seeing it with my own eyes, the level of play on a team for team basis is higher in the West than anywhere else in the country. (South/Wisconsin aside) There is no logical reason to not have 6 West teams in the West Regional, and maybe even more logical, flying more teams OUT of the West.

This is all water under the bridge, but something is wrong with how the NCAA is doing their regional rankings.

Have a great summer.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 01, 2015, 02:01:11 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on June 01, 2015, 01:50:53 PM
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cbase2015&sub=11620

A few final comments on team rankings, the West and how the NCAA does a huge disservice to the region.

The data is almost complete and is purely analytical, no "voting". Note that 7 of the top 20 teams are from the West.

Also note that 14 of the top 20 teams were either from the West, South or Wisconsin teams. Now how come the NCAA put those power house groups in the same pool at the CWS this year?

Hmmmm, could we have a  bias on trying to make it so a South, West or Wisconsin teams don't dominate at the CWS?  Seems odd to me.

Following up on what some of the Trinity players who were talking with the Linfield players, and after seeing it with my own eyes, the level of play on a team for team basis is higher in the West than anywhere else in the country. (South/Wisconsin aside) There is no logical reason to not have 6 West teams in the West Regional, and maybe even more logical, flying more teams OUT of the West.

This is all water under the bridge, but something is wrong with how the NCAA is doing their regional rankings.

Have a great summer.

You haven't said anything in this post that supports this statement, for what it's worth. You reference selections, pairings and assignments for regionals but nothing about regional rankings.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 01, 2015, 02:08:35 PM
Another seven of the top 20 teams are from the South.

These are fairly isolated regions. Massey math doesn't work as well in Division III, with the lack of interregional play. It favors the WIAC and Wisconsin and proximity to Wisconsin in every D-III sport. Now, that and the West rankings could be proper, to a point, but it's hard to tell because of the high number of ASC and NWC conferences games and the like. More interplay is needed to really know.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on June 02, 2015, 05:03:27 PM
The bottom line is that the West, although it has done well in Appleton is not dominating the world series.  Granted that it is only getting one of 8 teams in the tournament but if they were so much better then you would expect west teams winning a disproportionate amount of world series titles. They are not. So based simply on history of world series results Massey is biased to the west and south.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on June 02, 2015, 07:44:09 PM
Congrats on Trinity making it out of the West. Saw their program several years battle Chapman in the regionals. A great program a great coaching staff and most years have few players from Califronia on their roster.

A deep pitching staff is indeed a key element to winning the whole thing.

Chapman was without their All American #1 starter Kitchens in 2009 and fell a day short.

In 2011 Chapman was again without their #1 starter Rauh and fell a game short.

West has great teams but it is so tough to win in Appleton. Cortland has been a regular in Appleton for so many years and finally got their championship.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on December 23, 2015, 02:32:54 PM
Fist D3 Baseball poll of the year is out (non d3baseball.com)

http://baseballnews.com/collegiate-baseball-div-3-poll-12-22-15/

From the West:

10. Linfield
16. PLU
20. Texas-Tyler
22. Cal Lu
23. Concordia (TX)
27. Trinity (TX)
40. Pomona-Pitzer

Received Votes: Whitworth, Redlands, Chapman




Obviously, it is too early to tell, but I think Trinity and PLU are Top 10 teams. Linfield has to replace some horses on their staff, but their offense should take a step forward. I think their Top 10 ranking comes more from their past success.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 20, 2016, 11:30:37 AM
I find it interesting that only 4 teams from the West made the list. I was at the CWS last year and frankly the teams in the West Regional were tougher than the CWS teams. IMO, the three best teams there were Cortland, (rightfully) Trinity and Frostburg.

#   School (1st votes)   2015 Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland State (23)   45-4   622   1
2   UW-La Crosse   36-16   537   3
3   Emory   31-15   508   6
4   Salisbury   33-6-1   501   5
5   Kean   35-12   442   11
6   Webster   34-15   415   8
7   Trinity (Texas) (1)   40-14   414   4
8   Birmingham-Southern   37-12-1   396   10
9   UW-Whitewater   35-11   372   9
10   Frostburg State (1)   43-9   370   2
11   Rhodes   33-13   342   13
12   Heidelberg   33-14   286   14
13   UW-Stevens Point   33-14   277   12
14   Linfield   33-15   245   15
15   Southern Maine   32-15   225   rv
16   Shenandoah   28-10-1   216   16
17   Pacific Lutheran   32-14   193   17
18   Ramapo   33-16   185   8
19   Baldwin Wallace   31-12   183   20
20   Wartburg   33-14   153   21
21   Wooster   36-9   150   24
22   Texas-Tyler   34-12   140   19
23   Methodist   32-10   125   22
24   Marietta   29-18   108   rv
25   Alvernia   35-14   61   18


Others receiving votes: Misericordia 57, Cal Lutheran 54, Ohio Northern 50, Mary Washington 45, St. Thomas (Minn.) 41, Coe 40, Concordia-Texas 37, Concordia (Ill.), Johns Hopkins 25, Carthage 25, Adrian 24, La Roche 23, Mitchell 22, Thomas More 21, Millsaps 21, Keystone 19, MIT 15, Stevens Institute 12, St. Scholastica 12, Randolph-Macon 11, Huntingdon 8, Wesleyan (Conn.) 8, Ohio Wesleyan 6, Anderson 5, DeSales 5, Endicott 5, Eastern Conn. St. 3, Wis.-Oshkosh 3, Rensselaer 2, Redlands 2, Clarkson 1, Rose-Hulman 1, Rutgers-Camden 1, Salem St. 1, Southwestern (Tex.) 1.

* fixed Redland.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on January 20, 2016, 11:34:28 AM
Agreed. You also missed Redlands in the receiving votes (2 votes!). I had six teams from the West in the Top 25, and pretty much all of them ranked higher than where they ended up in the ranking you listed.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 23, 2016, 01:09:11 PM
Quote from: Westside on January 20, 2016, 11:34:28 AM
Agreed. You also missed Redlands in the receiving votes (2 votes!). I had six teams from the West in the Top 25, and pretty much all of them ranked higher than where they ended up in the ranking you listed.

A lot of coaching changes in the NW and that no SCIAC team has not made it to Appleton are factors in what starts out as a down year in the west teams in the poll.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on January 25, 2016, 09:07:30 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on January 20, 2016, 11:30:37 AM
I find it interesting that only 4 teams from the West made the list.

If all was equal, each region would be represented by 3-4 teams in each poll. The WEST getting four in the preseason poll is about right... Each of us feels "our region" is under-represented. I am not certain of the breakdown into how each region is represented, but so much of the early previews are focused on who voters feel will be the top teams from conferences that produce contenders year after year (ex: WIAC, NJAC, OAC, etc...). While each of us knows our regions relatively well, most know very little about teams outside of the region and as a result are often shocked to find there is quality baseball played elsewhere.

Part of the issue some of the West teams run into is that by starting so early (compared to cold-weather programs) they are not forced to develop 4th and 5th starters and a deep bullpen that Snow Belt programs find a necessity simply to survive conference play by playing 6-8 games a week while the West/South plays 3-4... that shows up in the post-season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2016, 10:13:45 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on January 25, 2016, 09:07:30 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on January 20, 2016, 11:30:37 AM
I find it interesting that only 4 teams from the West made the list.

If all was equal, each region would be represented by 3-4 teams in each poll. The WEST getting four in the preseason poll is about right... Each of us feels "our region" is under-represented. I am not certain of the breakdown into how each region is represented, but so much of the early previews are focused on who voters feel will be the top teams from conferences that produce contenders year after year (ex: WIAC, NJAC, OAC, etc...). While each of us knows our regions relatively well, most know very little about teams outside of the region and as a result are often shocked to find there is quality baseball played elsewhere.

Part of the issue some of the West teams run into is that by starting so early (compared to cold-weather programs) they are not forced to develop 4th and 5th starters and a deep bullpen that Snow Belt programs find a necessity simply to survive conference play by playing 6-8 games a week while the West/South plays 3-4... that shows up in the post-season.

My other comment about the West Region is that I think we have very few teams in the Top 15, but IMHO we have more than the statistically expected number of teams in the 25-120 range out of ~360 teams playing D3.

The West Regional is always balanced.  The games are tight, with very few blowouts that you see in the Regionals back east.
Plus the difference between the schools at the top of each conference is so small, that the teams sitting at home rankle at how close they were to making the playoffs.  Plenty of West and South Region schools show up in the Indexes such as Massey. The West is also the smallest in terms of participants among the 8 regions.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on January 25, 2016, 03:49:56 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on January 25, 2016, 09:07:30 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on January 20, 2016, 11:30:37 AM
I find it interesting that only 4 teams from the West made the list.

If all was equal, each region would be represented by 3-4 teams in each poll. The WEST getting four in the preseason poll is about right... Each of us feels "our region" is under-represented. I am not certain of the breakdown into how each region is represented, but so much of the early previews are focused on who voters feel will be the top teams from conferences that produce contenders year after year (ex: WIAC, NJAC, OAC, etc...). While each of us knows our regions relatively well, most know very little about teams outside of the region and as a result are often shocked to find there is quality baseball played elsewhere.

Part of the issue some of the West teams run into is that by starting so early (compared to cold-weather programs) they are not forced to develop 4th and 5th starters and a deep bullpen that Snow Belt programs find a necessity simply to survive conference play by playing 6-8 games a week while the West/South plays 3-4... that shows up in the post-season.

Great points BigPoppa,

Nice to be talking about baseball again. One of the reason's Trinity broke through last year was the depth of their pitching staff. Offensively they will likely be the best team in the West this year as the whole starting lineup returns and most are Sr's. With their number one on the hill they will be anyone, anywhere, the question will becomes what happens at 2-5 and the pen. I think them and PLU are probably the best teams in the West this year, but it is too early to really know. I actually think there may be a bit of a drop off from previous years. Don't know what is happening with Chapman and Linfield will be good. A lot of teams lost a lot of talent so we will see.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on January 29, 2016, 08:31:05 AM
The d3baseball West Region preseason report is up:

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2016/01/preview/west-preview
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2016, 09:26:18 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on January 29, 2016, 08:31:05 AM
The d3baseball West Region preseason report is up:

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2016/01/preview/west-preview
I gotta give props to Colton Westfall. I like the way that he writes.  His prose is so much more "baseball-y" than mine (too much technical writing...)

Great preview.  I stand by my conviction that this is the strongest and most competitive region in the country.

There are essentially no easy teams in the Region.

Thanks to Jim Dixon! 

Let's play 3!  Lobos and UDallas open this weekend in Alpine. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on January 29, 2016, 11:18:59 AM
All great job as always. I may have missed this in the past, but most of the conferences are missing some teams.
The Sciac review, for example, is missing:
Cal Tech,
Whittier,
CMS
Occidental

Has this always been the case, and I missed it, or do to constraints, were all the teams not reviewed?
Ralph why I agree that the West is very strong at the top. I cannot agree there are no easy teams in the region. There may be fewer easy teams, and no easy teams in the regional playoff. But there are easy teams. For example if Wilmington, Or Hiram, from the mid east played Cal tech. I believe both of those mid east teams could beat Cal Tech. And at least compete with Lewis and Clark.

If you are talking about solely teams in the Regional I cannot argue with that. Due to the Pool A bids in other parts of the country, there are usually Some weak teams at the other regional's.

Thanks again for all the work that is put into creating these. They are a great resource and always a fun read.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on January 29, 2016, 11:20:14 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2016, 09:26:18 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on January 29, 2016, 08:31:05 AM
The d3baseball West Region preseason report is up:

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2016/01/preview/west-preview
I gotta give props to Colton Westfall. I like the way that he writes.  His prose is so much more "baseball-y" than mine (too much technical writing...)

Great preview.  I stand by my conviction that this is the strongest and most competitive region in the country.

There are essentially no easy teams in the Region.

Thanks to Jim Dixon! 

Let's play 3!  Lobos and UDallas open this weekend in Alpine.

Thanks. Though it is tough to write the preview when only 10% of the West teams respond to the questionnaires that are sent out and half the teams hadn't updated their school websites/rosters!

Should be another great year in the West, for sure.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on January 29, 2016, 12:17:33 PM
Quote from: Westside on January 29, 2016, 11:20:14 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2016, 09:26:18 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on January 29, 2016, 08:31:05 AM
The d3baseball West Region preseason report is up:

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2016/01/preview/west-preview
I gotta give props to Colton Westfall. I like the way that he writes.  His prose is so much more "baseball-y" than mine (too much technical writing...)

Great preview.  I stand by my conviction that this is the strongest and most competitive region in the country.

There are essentially no easy teams in the Region.

Thanks to Jim Dixon! 

Let's play 3!  Lobos and UDallas open this weekend in Alpine.

Thanks. Though it is tough to write the preview when only 10% of the West teams respond to the questionnaires that are sent out and half the teams hadn't updated their school websites/rosters!

Should be another great year in the West, for sure.
Thanks West Side.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2016, 08:36:42 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on January 29, 2016, 11:18:59 AM
All great job as always. I may have missed this in the past, but most of the conferences are missing some teams.
The Sciac review, for example, is missing:
Cal Tech,
Whittier,
CMS
Occidental

Has this always been the case, and I missed it, or do to constraints, were all the teams not reviewed?
Ralph why I agree that the West is very strong at the top. I cannot agree there are no easy teams in the region. There may be fewer easy teams, and no easy teams in the regional playoff. But there are easy teams. For example if Wilmington, Or Hiram, from the mid east played Cal tech. I believe both of those mid east teams could beat Cal Tech. And at least compete with Lewis and Clark.

If you are talking about solely teams in the Regional I cannot argue with that. Due to the Pool A bids in other parts of the country, there are usually Some weak teams at the other regional's.

Thanks again for all the work that is put into creating these. They are a great resource and always a fun read.
Thanks for joining the conversation on the West Region board.+1!  (That gives you 100!)

My magnanimous nature prompted me to use the word "essentially'. Yes, we have some weak teams in the West, but several discussants have also maintained that Cal Tech would compete for the post-season tourney contention in some Pool A conferences in 2-3 regions back east.

Especially in the ASC, most of the teams have very good #1 pitchers. Sometimes the coach of a "weaker" team  may match a #1 against a #2 or #3 of a stronger team, and get the win. That blows the form chart for the club that was needing to go 3-0 on that weekend compared to the competition. The extra loss then factors in the post-season conference tourney and the dominos start falling.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2016, 10:53:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2016, 08:36:42 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on January 29, 2016, 11:18:59 AM
All great job as always. I may have missed this in the past, but most of the conferences are missing some teams.
The Sciac review, for example, is missing:
Cal Tech,
Whittier,
CMS
Occidental

Has this always been the case, and I missed it, or do to constraints, were all the teams not reviewed?
Ralph why I agree that the West is very strong at the top. I cannot agree there are no easy teams in the region. There may be fewer easy teams, and no easy teams in the regional playoff. But there are easy teams. For example if Wilmington, Or Hiram, from the mid east played Cal tech. I believe both of those mid east teams could beat Cal Tech. And at least compete with Lewis and Clark.

If you are talking about solely teams in the Regional I cannot argue with that. Due to the Pool A bids in other parts of the country, there are usually Some weak teams at the other regional's.

Thanks again for all the work that is put into creating these. They are a great resource and always a fun read.
Thanks for joining the conversation on the West Region board.+1!  (That gives you 100!)

My magnanimous nature prompted me to use the word "essentially'. Yes, we have some weak teams in the West, but several discussants have also maintained that Cal Tech would compete for the post-season tourney contention in some Pool A conferences in 2-3 regions back east.

Especially in the ASC, most of the teams have very good #1 pitchers. Sometimes the coach of a "weaker" team  may match a #1 against a #2 or #3 of a stronger team, and get the win. That blows the form chart for the club that was needing to go 3-0 on that weekend compared to the competition. The extra loss then factors in the post-season conference tourney and the dominos start falling.

Caltech is threatening to get downright respectable in basketball, but I'm not sure I'd want to get carried away before they EVER win a conference baseball game.  (Though there are some pretty god-awful conferences around the country.)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 01, 2016, 09:11:46 AM
I have not dug too deep into the West but on the surface it seems little weaker than in previous years. PLU and Linfield dropping down, Chapman is in the dungeon, Tyler seems to be holding their own. CTX looks like a so-so team. TLU laid an egg over the weekend, CLU so-so. Whtiworth made a move up. Trinity is the only team winning games they should that I can see. I will dig into it later in the week, but on the surface the West looks like not very many potentially dominant teams. Redlands?

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland (25)   6-0   625   1
2   UW-La Crosse   0-0   554   2
3   Emory   9-2   553   3
4   Trinity (Texas)   9-2   531   7
5   Birmingham-Southern   8-2   477   8
6   Frostburg State   5-1   457   10
7   Salisbury   2-2   406   4
8   UW-Whitewater   0-0   393   9
9   Shenandoah   5-1   319   16
10   UW-Stevens Point   0-0   306   13
11   Kean   3-3   294   5
12   Southern Maine   0-0   276   15
13   Webster   4-3   271   6
14   Whitworth   11-0   252   -
15   Ramapo   2-0   227   18
16   Randolph-Macon   9-0   225   rv
17   Texas-Tyler   9-3   201   22
18   Mary Washington   8-0   191   rv
19   Marietta   3-1   189   24
20   Linfield   9-5   185   14
21   Berry   12-1   151   -
22   Wartburg   0-0   137   20
23   Wooster   0-0   127   21
24   Christopher Newport   8-0   125   -
25   Heidelberg   1-2   78   12

Dropped out: 11. Rhodes, 17. Pacific Lutheran, 19. Baldwin Wallace, 23. Methodist, 25. Alvernia

Concordia Chicago 72, Brockport 63, St. Thomas (Minn.) 56, Misericordia 40 , La Roche 38, Ohio Northern 34, Carthage 26, Baldwin Wallace 25, Methodist 24, Rhodes 21, Keystone 17, Alvernia 12, Bridgewater (Va.) 12, Coe 12, Buena Vista 11, Thomas More 11, MIT 11, Adrian 9, Centenary (La.) 8, Pacific Lutheran 8, Johns Hopkins 8, Ohio Wesleyan 6, Maryville (Tenn.) 5, Millsaps 5, St. Scholastica 5, Mt. St. Joseph 5, La Verne 4, Cal Lutheran 3, Huntingdon 2, Rutgers-Camden, Stevens 2, Texas Lutheran 2, Endicott 2, Brandeis 1, Tufts 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 01, 2016, 04:30:24 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 01, 2016, 09:11:46 AM
I have not dug too deep into the West but on the surface it seems little weaker than in previous years. PLU and Linfield dropping down, Chapman is in the dungeon, Tyler seems to be holding their own. CTX looks like a so-so team. TLU laid an egg over the weekend, CLU so-so. Whtiworth made a move up. Trinity is the only team winning games they should that I can see. I will dig into it later in the week, but on the surface the West looks like not very many potentially dominant teams. Redlands?

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland (25)   6-0   625   1
2   UW-La Crosse   0-0   554   2
3   Emory   9-2   553   3
4   Trinity (Texas)   9-2   531   7
5   Birmingham-Southern   8-2   477   8
6   Frostburg State   5-1   457   10
7   Salisbury   2-2   406   4
8   UW-Whitewater   0-0   393   9
9   Shenandoah   5-1   319   16
10   UW-Stevens Point   0-0   306   13
11   Kean   3-3   294   5
12   Southern Maine   0-0   276   15
13   Webster   4-3   271   6
14   Whitworth   11-0   252   -
15   Ramapo   2-0   227   18
16   Randolph-Macon   9-0   225   rv
17   Texas-Tyler   9-3   201   22
18   Mary Washington   8-0   191   rv
19   Marietta   3-1   189   24
20   Linfield   9-5   185   14
21   Berry   12-1   151   -
22   Wartburg   0-0   137   20
23   Wooster   0-0   127   21
24   Christopher Newport   8-0   125   -
25   Heidelberg   1-2   78   12

Dropped out: 11. Rhodes, 17. Pacific Lutheran, 19. Baldwin Wallace, 23. Methodist, 25. Alvernia

Concordia Chicago 72, Brockport 63, St. Thomas (Minn.) 56, Misericordia 40 , La Roche 38, Ohio Northern 34, Carthage 26, Baldwin Wallace 25, Methodist 24, Rhodes 21, Keystone 17, Alvernia 12, Bridgewater (Va.) 12, Coe 12, Buena Vista 11, Thomas More 11, MIT 11, Adrian 9, Centenary (La.) 8, Pacific Lutheran 8, Johns Hopkins 8, Ohio Wesleyan 6, Maryville (Tenn.) 5, Millsaps 5, St. Scholastica 5, Mt. St. Joseph 5, La Verne 4, Cal Lutheran 3, Huntingdon 2, Rutgers-Camden, Stevens 2, Texas Lutheran 2, Endicott 2, Brandeis 1, Tufts 1.

I would agree with all of that.  It also makes me wonder if the West is getting stronger and teams are beating up on each other, or maybe there are only a handful of really good teams.  I saw UT Dallas play and thought they were pretty good but Trinity took care of them so maybe that says it all.

I would say the biggest disappointment so far is PLU.  There were/are a lot of high expectations for them and they are failing to live up to them. 

La Verne split 4 games with Linfield and PLU and have won 6 games against the 2 worst SCIAC teams.  They have a lot to prove in the next few weeks.

Redlands has been pretty good but I don't know if they have the pitching depth to make a deep run.  I am curious to see if Minjarez gets used too much and slows down.  He is without a doubt one of the top pitchers in the SCIAC.

Cal Lu had had a few really bad outings on the mound and that needs to be fixed if they plan on getting to a regional

Overall, I think Trinity is probably the 2nd best team in the country (behind Cortland).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 01, 2016, 05:30:46 PM
Through 11 games, this year's Whitworth team is reminiscent of the '12 team that went to Appleton - actually a better overall team than that '12 squad.  That team could put-up runs, and had just enough pitching, really only one guy that was dominant, Scheibe, and he was a Frosh.  They had a 4.5 team ERA in '12, but outscored their opponents by almost 80 runs. The '12 offense, particularly from a power standpoint, was really dominated by one guy, Pfeffer.  This year's squad, overall, looks much more balanced offensively with more power spread throughout the line-up.  They're currently putting up a .959 team OPS.

Their one real quality win thus far is of course over Emory, and the remainder of their regular season schedule is all NWC play.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: infielddad on March 01, 2016, 11:23:36 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 01, 2016, 04:30:24 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 01, 2016, 09:11:46 AM
I have not dug too deep into the West but on the surface it seems little weaker than in previous years. PLU and Linfield dropping down, Chapman is in the dungeon, Tyler seems to be holding their own. CTX looks like a so-so team. TLU laid an egg over the weekend, CLU so-so. Whtiworth made a move up. Trinity is the only team winning games they should that I can see. I will dig into it later in the week, but on the surface the West looks like not very many potentially dominant teams. Redlands?

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland (25)   6-0   625   1
2   UW-La Crosse   0-0   554   2
3   Emory   9-2   553   3
4   Trinity (Texas)   9-2   531   7
5   Birmingham-Southern   8-2   477   8
6   Frostburg State   5-1   457   10
7   Salisbury   2-2   406   4
8   UW-Whitewater   0-0   393   9
9   Shenandoah   5-1   319   16
10   UW-Stevens Point   0-0   306   13
11   Kean   3-3   294   5
12   Southern Maine   0-0   276   15
13   Webster   4-3   271   6
14   Whitworth   11-0   252   -
15   Ramapo   2-0   227   18
16   Randolph-Macon   9-0   225   rv
17   Texas-Tyler   9-3   201   22
18   Mary Washington   8-0   191   rv
19   Marietta   3-1   189   24
20   Linfield   9-5   185   14
21   Berry   12-1   151   -
22   Wartburg   0-0   137   20
23   Wooster   0-0   127   21
24   Christopher Newport   8-0   125   -
25   Heidelberg   1-2   78   12

Dropped out: 11. Rhodes, 17. Pacific Lutheran, 19. Baldwin Wallace, 23. Methodist, 25. Alvernia

Concordia Chicago 72, Brockport 63, St. Thomas (Minn.) 56, Misericordia 40 , La Roche 38, Ohio Northern 34, Carthage 26, Baldwin Wallace 25, Methodist 24, Rhodes 21, Keystone 17, Alvernia 12, Bridgewater (Va.) 12, Coe 12, Buena Vista 11, Thomas More 11, MIT 11, Adrian 9, Centenary (La.) 8, Pacific Lutheran 8, Johns Hopkins 8, Ohio Wesleyan 6, Maryville (Tenn.) 5, Millsaps 5, St. Scholastica 5, Mt. St. Joseph 5, La Verne 4, Cal Lutheran 3, Huntingdon 2, Rutgers-Camden, Stevens 2, Texas Lutheran 2, Endicott 2, Brandeis 1, Tufts 1.

I would agree with all of that.  It also makes me wonder if the West is getting stronger and teams are beating up on each other, or maybe there are only a handful of really good teams.  I saw UT Dallas play and thought they were pretty good but Trinity took care of them so maybe that says it all.

I would say the biggest disappointment so far is PLU.  There were/are a lot of high expectations for them and they are failing to live up to them. 

La Verne split 4 games with Linfield and PLU and have won 6 games against the 2 worst SCIAC teams.  They have a lot to prove in the next few weeks.

Redlands has been pretty good but I don't know if they have the pitching depth to make a deep run.  I am curious to see if Minjarez gets used too much and slows down.  He is without a doubt one of the top pitchers in the SCIAC.

Cal Lu had had a few really bad outings on the mound and that needs to be fixed if they plan on getting to a regional

Overall, I think Trinity is probably the 2nd best team in the country (behind Cortland).

Trinity pounded Concordia tonight, 11-1. Troy Nelson, who I saw pitch against UT-Dallas and thought he was goooooood (in relief for one inning) went 6 1/3 and struck out 9.  Concordia made 6 errors in the box score so that makes things muddied but TU also had 13 hits and they went the entire length of the line up.  Nelson has huge upside on the mound, and apparently is equally comfortable starting and closing, so far. It is a long season but TU can be really good if they get really hungry and get younger guys to push the seniors really hard and play every game like the trip to Appleton depends on it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 07, 2016, 12:24:50 PM
I do not see Centenary College on this list anywhere.

They are 11-3 including 2 wins against UTT who is ranked 17th. 

Impressive start and will be a major factor in conference play. They are right up there with Trinity in the SCAC IMO.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 07, 2016, 01:45:57 PM
I agree, although their schedule has been a bit weak it looks like they played a competitive game vs BS. The last UTT game was against one of the UTT freshmen, but based on what I have seen so far Cent and Trinity as a step above the competition in the SCAC, but as TLU showed last weekend they are a scrappy and tough team, so you can't look past anyone. (as the Golden State Warriors learned last night) (had to throw in a shout out to my Lakers)

As a whole I think the West is down a bit this year in terms of the number of really high quality teams. At this point Trinity appears to be the most dominant, but if their pitching does not improve during the season they could easily get knocked off in a regional, as CLU learned a couple of years ago, a strong offense can get shut down with "number 1" class pitchers coming at you.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on March 07, 2016, 03:16:38 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 07, 2016, 12:24:50 PM
I do not see Centenary College on this list anywhere.

They are 11-3 including 2 wins against UTT who is ranked 17th. 

Impressive start and will be a major factor in conference play. They are right up there with Trinity in the SCAC IMO.


I will probably get slammed for this. But since Centenary does not have much of a D3 history, it may take a while for them to break in. It seems to me that most the teams that get rated, many of them have a history of success. I don't like it but many times that is the way it is. Once they start having regular success at the D3 level they will be mentioned more in these type of polls.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on March 07, 2016, 03:24:11 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on March 07, 2016, 03:16:38 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 07, 2016, 12:24:50 PM
I do not see Centenary College on this list anywhere.

They are 11-3 including 2 wins against UTT who is ranked 17th. 

Impressive start and will be a major factor in conference play. They are right up there with Trinity in the SCAC IMO.


I will probably get slammed for this. But since Centenary does not have much of a D3 history, it may take a while for them to break in. It seems to me that most the teams that get rated, many of them have a history of success. I don't like it but many times that is the way it is. Once they start having regular success at the D3 level they will be mentioned more in these type of polls.

Maybe, but Birmingham-Southern found itself in the mix right away when they entered D3 just a handful of seasons ago.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on March 07, 2016, 03:53:34 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 07, 2016, 03:24:11 PM
Quote from: Bishopleftiesdad on March 07, 2016, 03:16:38 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 07, 2016, 12:24:50 PM
I do not see Centenary College on this list anywhere.

They are 11-3 including 2 wins against UTT who is ranked 17th. 

Impressive start and will be a major factor in conference play. They are right up there with Trinity in the SCAC IMO.


I will probably get slammed for this. But since Centenary does not have much of a D3 history, it may take a while for them to break in. It seems to me that most the teams that get rated, many of them have a history of success. I don't like it but many times that is the way it is. Once they start having regular success at the D3 level they will be mentioned more in these type of polls.

Maybe, but Birmingham-Southern found itself in the mix right away when they entered D3 just a handful of seasons ago.
Good catch I forgot about them. I remember that now that you mention it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on March 07, 2016, 04:04:10 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 01, 2016, 04:30:24 PM

Overall, I think Trinity is probably the 2nd best team in the country (behind Cortland).

They will certainly be interesting to watch/likely in the hunt near the end of the season.

It's still early, but their starting pitching doesn't seem quite as dominant this year as it has been in years past.

Wins aren't a great stat for SP, but Gray was 11-0 in 18 starts over the last two years. His ERA was 2.00 last year. He's off to a 2-3 start with a 4.88 ERA this year.

That said, I think they brought back their entire starting lineup. Every single one of them from the previous year.

Wolf, McEachern, Moore, Jewett, Butler, Serkowski, Singer, Santos, Fehmel are all guys who have been contributing since their sophomore year - many in starting/prominent roles.

Add *another* senior, Andrew Waters, swinging a hot bat and this team is about as senior laden as they come.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 07, 2016, 04:04:17 PM
I think the issue with Centenary is their SOS. They have a bit of a problem due to their location and they fact that the school is small with more limited financial resources. Their program has historically been very competitive in the SCAC. Last year they had the best record and hosted the SCAC tournament and was one game from winning the SCAC. A couple of years ago they won the SCAC, but were not eligible for post season due to the D1 drop down, so they have been a very very good D3 baseball program. They will break through to a Regional one of these days and will continue to get recognition, but they have to play under the shadow of UTT, CTX and Trinity so it will take some time. They should be getting votes IMO.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 07, 2016, 04:37:39 PM
JSG,

They lost ~ 275 of their ~460 innings from last year and you don't replace those easily, and/or it takes time to develop a more inexperienced staff. Gray has historically struggled early in the season and with the past staffs it did not matter, with a limited staff it becomes more visible, he will get it together by the end of the season I am sure. They are not the second best team in the country  right now IMO, but can develop into a very tough team to beat if the pitching develops. (I thought they were as good a Corland last year and unfortunately ran into some scheduling and weather issues so we will never know)  From what I have seen looking at comments and schedules I think the West Regional will be a little easier this year than in the past, but again it is all about playing well at the end of the season, and there is TON's of baseball to be played.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: waterlogged on March 07, 2016, 05:39:37 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 07, 2016, 04:37:39 PM
JSG,

They lost ~ 275 of their ~460 innings from last year and you don't replace those easily, and/or it takes time to develop a more inexperienced staff. Gray has historically struggled early in the season and with the past staffs it did not matter, with a limited staff it becomes more visible, he will get it together by the end of the season I am sure. They are not the second best team in the country  right now IMO, but can develop into a very tough team to beat if the pitching develops. (I thought they were as good a Corland last year and unfortunately ran into some scheduling and weather issues so we will never know)  From what I have seen looking at comments and schedules I think the West Regional will be a little easier this year than in the past, but again it is all about playing well at the end of the season, and there is TON's of baseball to be played.

I agree their pitching has been a bit less than last year.  Nelson has been very good, I'm curious to see if he gets more innings as a starter or if they keep him available for closing out some games as well.  They do have some talent, it will be interesting to see if some of the less experienced pitchers rise through the season.  They also have a Freshman who has yet to see the field who was in consideration for the starting rotation until he went out with some arm soreness just prior to the season start.  He was experiencing some command issues at times, but was said to have the best stuff and velocity on the staff.  Smith compared him to Ben Klimesh as being their best pitching recruit in some time.  Who knows if he gets back or if it helps even if he does.  But at least there is one potential additional bullet in the chamber.
I saw Centenary play a couple of times last year and they were very scrappy and talented in some areas.  If Trinity keeps at its currently level, I would expect them to win the conference and tournament, but I would not count Centenary out.  They played with aggression and attitude when I saw them.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2016, 09:25:25 PM
Welcome to the Boards, waterlogged.

Glad to have your here.
Title: !
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 08, 2016, 10:55:28 AM
Welcome watterlogged!
Top West teams Wk 2
(note Centenary is getting some votes RE: SCAC discussion)


#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland (25)   8-0   625   1
2   UW-La Crosse   0-0   577   2
3   Emory   11-2   560   3
4   Trinity (Texas)   12-3   534   4
5   Birmingham-Southern   11-2   502   5
6   Shenandoah   9-1   459   9
7   UW-Whitewater   0-0   411   8
8   Frostburg State   6-2   407   6
9   Randolph-Macon   11-1   370   16
10   Southern Maine   0-0   354   12
11   UW-Stevens Point   0-0   326   10
12   Mary Washington   13-1   300   18
13   Salisbury   4-3   291   7
14   Whitworth   12-2   290   14
15   Ramapo   2-0   273   15
1[b]6   Texas-Tyler   11-4   239   17[/b]
17   Christopher Newport   10-1   234   24
18   Marietta   4-2   184   19
19   Webster   5-3   183   13
20   Wooster   0-0   113   23
21   Concordia-Chicago   4-0   105   rv
22   Berry   13-4   92   21
23   Oswego State   7-0   83   rv
24   Wartburg   5-3   81   22
25   Linfield   11-6   77   20
Dropped out: No. 11. Kean, No. 25. Heidelberg.

St. Thomas (Minn.) 67, Kean 45, Misericordia 44, Carthage 31, Centenary (La.) 30, Rhodes 23, Heidelberg 21, Rutgers-Camden 20, Maryville (Tenn.) 20, Cal Lutheran 16, Brockport 15, Buena Vista 13, Pacific Lutheran 10, MIT 10, Mt. St. Joseph 10, Keystone 9, La Roche 9, Ohio Northern 8, Adrian 7, Swarthmore 6, Endicott 6, St. Scholastica 5, Washington (Mo.) 5, Coe 5, Chicago 4, Thomas More 4, Worcester St. 4, Moravian 3, Baldwin Wallace 2, George Fox 1, McDaniel 1, Tufts 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on March 08, 2016, 01:27:34 PM
Overall, I think the new poll provides a fairly accurate depiction of the top teams in the West. If rankings were handed out today I'd probably go with...

1. Trinity - Their offense has a lot of POP and I expect their pitching staff to continue to improve (I can't imagine Gray finishing with an ERA above 4 by the end of the season either).
2. Texas-Tyler - Their losses have come against solid competition and they've beat the teams they "should" beat pretty convincingly this season
3. Whitworth - I would have had them above TT until they dropped a non-league game against Lewis & Clark yesterday. A great start has been blemished by a 1-3 stretch over their past 4 games.
4. Centenary - Has swept TT, but I'm not as impressed with the quality of their schedule to this point
5. Linfield - The fact that they've dropped a series game against Lewis & Clark for 2 years in a row PAINS ME. But the fact that the Pios beat Whitworth yesterday and that they are a win away from being .500 eases the pain a little.
6. Redlands - I'd give them a slight nod as the top team in the SCIAC right now. Their losses have been against strong opponents, but we will see how they measure up this week with a non-league contest against Webster and a conference series with Cal Lu.

IMO Redlands, Cal Lu, and La Verne are a toss up for the representative from the SCIAC.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 08, 2016, 04:22:55 PM
Nicely done. NWBBF. +1
I don't think we will know the real Centenary team until they meet Trinity later in their schedule. PLU is a bit of a surprise. (negative one) and Whitworth, a positive based on who they graduated. We will get a better picture of the SCIAC in the next couple of weeks,
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 15, 2016, 10:46:13 AM
Top teams in West for week 3

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland (25)   11-0   625   1
2   Trinity (Texas)   16-4   555   4
3   Birmingham-Southern   15-3   544   5
4   Emory   15-5   503   3
5   UW-La Crosse   2-2   479   2
6   Randolph-Macon   13-2   463   9
7   Southern Maine   2-0   420   10
8   Shenandoah   10-3   415   6
9   UW-Whitewater   0-0   404   7
10   Salisbury   8-3   365   13
11   Frostburg State   7-3   343   8
12   Ramapo   6-0   341   15
13   UW-Stevens Point   0-0   328   11
14   Whitworth   14-4   288   14
15   Christopher Newport   12-3   269   17
16   Oswego State   8-1   211   23
17   Mary Washington   13-5   209   12
18   Texas-Tyler   12-6   168   16
19   Wooster   0-0   140   20
20   Concordia-Chicago   8-3   129   21
21   Piedmont   14-5   109   rv
22   Washington (Mo.)   12-4   81   rv
23   St. Thomas   0-0   71   rv
24   Centenary (La.)   14-3   70   rv
25   Rutgers-Camden   4-0   69   rv
Dropped out: No. 18 Marietta, No. 19 Webster, No. 22 Berry, No. 24 Wartburg, No. 25 Linfield.

Berry 66, Marietta 65, Maryville (Tenn.) 49, Mt. St. Joseph 45, Wartburg 41, Misericordia 32, Webster 27, Rhodes 25, Buena Vista 22, La Verne 18, La Roche 16, Kean 14, Keystone 12, Linfield 12, Ohio Northern 10, Carthage 9, Heidelberg 9, Endicott 7, Denison 5, Amherst 5, Haverford 5, Swarthmore 4, Western New England 4, Mitchell 4, Penn St.-Berks 4, Coe 3, Pacific Lutheran 3, Roanoke 3, Cal Lutheran 2, Thiel 2, Redlands 1, St. John Fisher 1, St. Scholastica 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 15, 2016, 12:25:56 PM
CTX is 10-8 but just took two of three from UT-T.   Any thoughts about what's going on there?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on March 15, 2016, 02:28:58 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 15, 2016, 12:25:56 PM
CTX is 10-8 but just took two of three from UT-T.   Any thoughts about what's going on there?

In the scheme of things, they have pretty (solid) losses -- no reason to believe they won't challenge UTT for the ASC title.

All three of these games were good, in-region games* against solid teams in a tournament to open the season.

*Eh, perhaps Piedmont is not in-region. 


In addition to those three you have these three that you're not terribly upset about:


Finally, the Tornadoes dropped games to Southwestern and Ozarks, the latter part of a 2 games to 1 conference series win.

CTX isn't the only good team SW has toppled. Ask Trinity and Centenary about the Pirates.

So yeah, they're only 2 games over .500, but I do anticipate them getting to, and being a force, in the ASC tournament.

SP Lane Hobbs has been very, very good. Seriously, his stat line is ridiculous. I think it's time to just go ahead and put Traxler in their weekend rotation and then settle on Smith or Benyo as your 3rd starter. I know they like Traxler out of the pen, but couldn't Benyo (long)/Bratton (short) serve that purpose?

I like Lieferman (FR), Britz (FR), Mellman and Valadez at the top of the CTX order. Poindexter swings and misses too much, but provides some nice pop in the 5-hole.

I think the most confounding thing is not what is going on with CTX, but what's going on with SR Connor Bertsch. The guy hit .403 with 13 2B and 8 HR last year and he's at .089 this year. Maybe he's pressing and maybe he's dinged up, but if they could get him going, it'd be a huge shot in the arm headed into the heart of conference play.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 22, 2016, 12:32:47 PM
Top West Teams.

2016 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, Week 4

Through games of Sunday March 20, 2016

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (11)   20-4   599   2
2   Cortland (8)   14-3   587   1
3   Birmingham-Southern   18-4   537   3
4   Ramapo (2)   12-0   515   12
5   Southern Maine (3)   4-0   509   7
6   Randolph-Macon   15-3   478   6
7   Emory   17-6   460   4
8   UW-Whitewater   2-0   443   9
9   Shenandoah (1)   13-4   411   8
10   Whitworth   17-4   377   14
11   Salisbury   10-5   308   10
12   Centenary (La.)   17-3   296   24
13   UW-La Crosse   6-4   276   5
14   Christopher Newport   14-5   256   15
15   Rutgers-Camden   8-2   229   25
16   Frostburg State   9-6   200
17   Texas-Tyler   15-7   140   18
18   Mary Washington   15-7   120   17
19   Oswego State   8-3   118   16
20   St. Thomas   3-1   114   23
21   Western New England   8-0   103   rv
22   Wooster   4-2   89   19
23   Buena Vista   5-1   82   rv
24   UW-Stevens Point   1-3   78   13
25   Concordia-Chicago   10-5   71   20
Dropped out: No. 21 Piedmont. No. 22 Washington (Mo.).

Others receiving votes: Amherst 68, Keystone 56, Piedmont 53, Washington (Mo.) 44, Rhodes 42, Wheaton (Mass.) 34, Redlands 34, Mt. St. Joseph 33, McDaniel 28, Maryville (Tenn.) 26, Marietta 25, TCNJ 24, La Roche 24, North Central (Ill.) 23, Eastern Conn. St. 18, Mitchell 12, Benedictine 11, Ferrum 11, Berry 10, Kean 9, Ohio Northern 9, Otterbein 9, Misericordia 9, Occidental 8, Saint Mary's (Minn.) 8, Haverford 7, Methodist 7, Webster 7, Brockport St. 5, Fredonia 4, La Verne 4, New Jersey City 3, Penn St.-Berks 3, Roanoke 3, Denison 2, Johns Hopkins 2, Penn St.-Behrend 2, Wesleyan (Conn.) 2, Bowdoin 1, Moravian 1, Pacific 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 22, 2016, 12:43:02 PM
My comments on the poll.

Trinity might be number 1 in rank, but solely on others around them. Even their coach called them out in the press release on Sunday. Pitching is starting to shape up (and not) I will comment in SCAC later in the week.

Centenary makes a big move up and its well deserved, HUGE series for them this weekend vs Trinity. The only problem for them is that they are in the same conference as a team from San Antonio. They had a very bitter loss last year in the SCAC tournament at home and I am sure they will be gunning for the Tigers.

Whitworth is looking good in an otherwise disappointing NWest conference. What has happened? El Nino'?

UTT is a steady mid top 25 position and clearly the favorite out of the ASC.

Speaking of disappointing... what is going on in the SCIAC?  Uggg. Occidental ? Seriously who have they beaten?

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 22, 2016, 05:10:39 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 22, 2016, 12:43:02 PM



Speaking of disappointing... what is going on in the SCIAC?  Uggg. Occidental ? Seriously who have they beaten?

The answer to this is very simple: nobody.

SCIAC SOS's as of today

Whittier- 36
Caltech- 40
Redlands- 56
Claremont- 76
Cal Lu- 87
Pomona- 118
La Verne- 135
Chapman- 151
OXY- 305

OXY has won 13 in a row and the combined record of those teams they have done it against is 27-62 for a .303 win %  Not very impressive but they have won the games they are supposed to and have not slipped up against anyone.  They have a much tougher road ahead.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 26, 2016, 07:30:32 PM
Trinity sweeps Centenary in very convincing fashion. Trinity dominated in pretty much all aspects of the game. They got a little sloppy in the last game this afternoon, but none of the games were very close. They should remain a solid number 1 next week. They changed up their pitching rotation a bit, and later in the week I will take a look and comment. As Centenary found out that lineup 1-9 is pretty tough to pitch to as there are really no breaks for an opposing pitcher.
Final scores.
11-4
13-3 Run rulled 7 innings
11-4

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2016, 08:16:28 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 26, 2016, 07:30:32 PM
Trinity sweeps Centenary in very convincing fashion. Trinity dominated in pretty much all aspects of the game. They got a little sloppy in the last game this afternoon, but none of the games were very close. They should remain a solid number 1 next week. They changed up their pitching rotation a bit, and later in the week I will take a look and comment. As Centenary found out that lineup 1-9 is pretty tough to pitch to as there are really no breaks for an opposing pitcher.
Final scores.
11-4
13-3 Run rulled 7 innings
11-4
I would expect at Top 15 team to play a competitive series at home against a #1.
That casts doubts for me that Centenary is worthy of the consideration that they have received
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bmo on March 26, 2016, 10:51:38 PM
Maybe, but shouldn't the same logic apply between Centenary and UT Tyler?  ???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 27, 2016, 12:01:25 PM
I would agree with Ralph, I am not too sure about Centenary. They have beaten TT twice, but once was against a freshmen pitcher, and many times top teams use midweek games to let some of their younger guys get experience.

Looking closely most of their wins are against sub-par teams and this was the first really competitive series they faced and boy did they lay an egg [pun intended].  Happy Easter to all BTW!

Their last three weekends were Schreiner, Austin, Schreiner and playing three weekends in a row against weak teams does not prepare you for a team like Trinity and I think mentally they probably just wilted. The whole Trinity lineup is batting over 0.300 and as a pitcher if you are not mentally prepared for that it can get ugly quick and I think that is just what happened. They still are a sound baseball team, just not a top 15 at the moment. They will likely head back down the rankings as fast as they came up.

It looks like Trinity and Whitworth are separating themselves from the Western pack and the moment.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 27, 2016, 11:41:21 PM
The ASC is not very strong this year. UTT did take 2 out of 3 from UTD and Letourneau, so they are winning the series they are supposed to win. However, they did poor against CTX on the road loosing 2 out 3 in blow outs. CTX in the meantime has been less then stellar. UTT does not have the pitching strength or power to be a real factor in the regionals IMO. None of the ASC teams right now looks to have the strength to compete with Trinity.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 28, 2016, 07:45:25 AM
I would agree with the ASC comments above. An interesting team to watch may be Hardin Simmons. After starting 2-6 they have gone 13-1 in their last 14 games. Again, this is against lesser teams, but still noteworthy. They also wont play CTX or UT Tyler in conference play (how in the world did that happen?). Their remaining schedule is fairly weak. They could end up with a pretty impressive record when this is all said and done due to their weak schedule.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 29, 2016, 10:11:28 AM
Through games of Sunday March 27, 2016

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (17)   23-4   611   1
2   Cortland (5)   18-3   577   2
3   Ramapo   13-0-1   551   4
4   UW-Whitewater (3)   8-0   530   8
5   Randolph-Macon   18-3-1   507   6
6   Birmingham-Southern   20-6   453   3
7   Emory   20-7   449   7
8   Whitworth   20-4   421   10
9   Shenandoah   16-5   415   9
10   Rutgers-Camden   10-2   338   15
11   Christopher Newport   18-5   337   14
12   Salisbury   13-6   294   11
13   Oswego State   13-3   232   19
14   Southern Maine   6-4   220   5
15   Texas-Tyler   18-8   215   17
16   Centenary (La.)   17-6   213   12
17   Wooster   8-2   174   22
18   UW-La Crosse   6-4   161   13
19   North Central (Ill.)   11-0   153   rv
20   TCNJ   13-1   137   rv
21   St. Thomas   7-3   121   20
22   Frostburg State   11-7   103   16
23   Amherst   9-2   97   rv
24   McDaniel   17-1   95   rv
25   Buena Vista   9-3   72   23

Dropped out: No. 18 Mary Washington, No. 21 Western New England,  No. 24 UW-Stevens Point. No. 25 Concordia-Chicago.

Others receiving votes: Mary Washington 71, Berry 67, Occidental 50, Concordia Chicago 49, Western New England 40, Keystone 38, Saint Mary's (Minn.) 27, Concordia Texas 24, Luther 23, Wartburg 22, Marietta 22, Swarthmore 19, Wheaton (Mass.) 18, Webster 14 Pacific (Ore.) 14, Ohio Northern 13, Eastern Conn. St. 12, Misericordia 11, Mitchell 11, Maryville (Tenn.) 11, Suffolk 10, Redlands 9, Roanoke 7, La Roche 7, Macalester 6, Endicott 6, Ferrum 6, Elmhurst 5, Piedmont 5, Washington College 5, Wesleyan (Conn.) 4, Haverford 3, La Grange 3, Thiel 3, Earlham 2, Brockport 1, Elms 1, Mt. St. Joseph 1, N.C. Wesleyan 1, Ohio Wesleyan 1, Texas Lutheran 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 29, 2016, 12:52:33 PM
Quote from: dp643 on March 28, 2016, 07:45:25 AM
I would agree with the ASC comments above. An interesting team to watch may be Hardin Simmons. After starting 2-6 they have gone 13-1 in their last 14 games. Again, this is against lesser teams, but still noteworthy. They also wont play CTX or UT Tyler in conference play (how in the world did that happen?). Their remaining schedule is fairly weak. They could end up with a pretty impressive record when this is all said and done due to their weak schedule.

Too many teams in the conference to play all opponents in the regular season, so HSU drew the "long straw" this year.    Wonder if the conference might move to an East and West setup once McMurry and Belhaven complete their provisional D3 period.    I wouldn't solve the problem of not playing everyone, but it would provide each team a core set of opponents they would play each year in addition to a few teams from the other division.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 29, 2016, 01:24:42 PM
I would like to see a few of the ASC teams come over to the SCAC. This would balance out the conferences a little.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: dp643 on March 30, 2016, 07:27:29 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 29, 2016, 12:52:33 PM
Quote from: dp643 on March 28, 2016, 07:45:25 AM
I would agree with the ASC comments above. An interesting team to watch may be Hardin Simmons. After starting 2-6 they have gone 13-1 in their last 14 games. Again, this is against lesser teams, but still noteworthy. They also wont play CTX or UT Tyler in conference play (how in the world did that happen?). Their remaining schedule is fairly weak. They could end up with a pretty impressive record when this is all said and done due to their weak schedule.

Too many teams in the conference to play all opponents in the regular season, so HSU drew the "long straw" this year.    Wonder if the conference might move to an East and West setup once McMurry and Belhaven complete their provisional D3 period.    I wouldn't solve the problem of not playing everyone, but it would provide each team a core set of opponents they would play each year in addition to a few teams from the other division.

I figured as much. I think it would make sense to go back to an East/West setup where you play everyone in your division and a couple of rotating crossover matchups.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 30, 2016, 05:04:45 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 29, 2016, 01:24:42 PM
I would like to see a few of the ASC teams come over to the SCAC. This would balance out the conferences a little.
Football...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 31, 2016, 11:15:30 AM
What are the surprises so far in the West this year?

1. Whitworth as strong as they are.
2. PLU and Linfield implosions.
3. Oxidental, really?
4. Relative weakness overall in SCIAC
5. My goodness what has happened to the once powerful Chapman?
6. ASC and SCAC more or less as expected except for CTX?

It looks like Whitworth are the two teams that are really separating themselves at the moment. I am a bit surprised that no other teams are really developing as in past years.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 31, 2016, 12:32:08 PM
A few surprises on the NWC side of the West Region.

I would add Pacific's offensive explosion to the list. Take a quick look at their offensive numbers from last year to this year, and it is astounding.

2015: 21-19, .274 batting average, 60 doubles, 9 triples, 8 homeruns.
2016: 17-9, .322 batting average, 59 doubles, 8 triples, 19 homeruns.

So in 14 less games, they have nearly as many doubles and triples, and more than twice as many home runs. Add .50 points to the team batting average, and now there is a pretty dangerous team. Granted their pitching staff leaves a lot to be desired, but they can hope to keep bludgeoning teams to death.




I think the surprising part about Whitworth is they are relying, almost completely, on youth for their pitching staff. Their top two starters are freshman, and their third guy is a sophomore. They don't have a single senior that has thrown an inning this year. Their lineup is predominately juniors and sophomores. Coach Ramsey continues to build a program that looks like it will be sticking around for a while. They should be the team to beat for the next few years.




I would call PLU and Linfield "struggling" more than an implosion. I mean, both teams are still over .500. PLU's is a bit more surprising since they returned almost their entire lineup from a team that hit .300, and they have struggled to hit. But their staff has taken some lumps too.

Linfield's is a little less of a surprise, as they are proving that replacing a two-time National Pitcher of the Year and another All-American pitcher can be pretty tough. Add on the loss of their top two hitters from last year, and the regression makes a little more sense. The pitching staff has been hit quite a bit, but they are young and there have been some very bright spots.




Quick note surprises:

George Fox improving their team batting average from .257 to .313.

Joseph Zimmer, sophomore from Whitman, leading the conference with a .485 batting average (and 2nd highest isn't even close). He also leads the conference in hits, doubles, and runs.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 31, 2016, 01:49:49 PM
Quote from: Westside on March 31, 2016, 12:32:08 PM
Coach Ramsey continues to build a program that looks like it will be sticking around for a while. They should be the team to beat for the next few years.



But will he stay there?  Was all set to leave once, what holds him back from doing it again?  I think we have all seen good examples of new coaches taking over and what it has done to those programs.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 31, 2016, 01:57:44 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 31, 2016, 01:49:49 PM
Quote from: Westside on March 31, 2016, 12:32:08 PM
Coach Ramsey continues to build a program that looks like it will be sticking around for a while. They should be the team to beat for the next few years.



But will he stay there?  Was all set to leave once, what holds him back from doing it again?  I think we have all seen good examples of new coaches taking over and what it has done to those programs.

I doubt he stays there, you are right. He was all set to go to Washington State before they made coaching changes. But I think they have made enough strides that the program would stay strong, even if he were to leave in the next year or two.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on March 31, 2016, 03:39:17 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 31, 2016, 11:15:30 AM
What are the surprises so far in the West this year?

1. Whitworth as strong as they are.
2. PLU and Linfield implosions.
3. Oxidental, really? Do they pass the eye test? Prior to taking 2 of 3 from Redlands, my assumption was just that they were beating weaker teams. Let's see how they do with Pomona, LA Verne and Cal Lu. They didn't win those series last year, *but* they are getting some great production from multiple freshman -- both at the plate and on the bump (Martel).
4. Relative weakness overall in SCIAC
5. My goodness what has happened to the once powerful Chapman?  They fired a very successful coach for talking like half of the good coaches I've ever had have talked. Not sure if it's 'right' or 'wrong,' but there's no denying the dynasty that Tereschuk had built in Orange County.
6. ASC and SCAC more or less as expected except for CTX? Was CTX not expected to contend for the ASC title? Seems to me that's exactly what they're doing. They played a solid schedule the first 2-3 weeks, and have seemed to settle in during conference. If they get Bertsch back on track (he was good last week against La College) they're dangerous.

It looks like Whitworth are the two teams that are really separating themselves at the moment. I am a bit surprised that no other teams are really developing as in past years.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 31, 2016, 08:39:05 PM
Chapman's offense has been solid to very strong, it seems every season since T's departure.  They have/had a number of guys that can really swing it.  What they haven't had is that stable of lights-out pitching, like draft pick guys etc. that they rolled-out for a number of years.  T's penultimate season (I believe), the weekend rotation was essentially Rauh, McGee, Osaki - pretty formidable - although amazingly, that team went 20-20 that year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 31, 2016, 09:19:47 PM
West side, as a side note to your comments about Zimmer at Whitman - this year's Whitman team could have had easily the best offensive infield in the NWC IF Ozzy Braff hadn't transferred to D1. You'd have Zimmer at 3rd, Vela at SS (who was 2nd team all conference last season as Frosh and batting 370 with power this year) and Braff at 2nd, who was a beast in the NWC, was all conference last year at D1 Mountain West Conference and is tearing it up again this year. That scenario would have been surprising.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 31, 2016, 10:56:28 PM
When the ASC conference tournament comes around I expect it to be between UTT and CTX with perhaps HS with an outside shot.

The winner will get the regional bid. I do not expect any other team in the conference  to make to the regionals.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 31, 2016, 11:18:32 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on March 31, 2016, 09:19:47 PM
West side, as a side note to your comments about Zimmer at Whitman - this year's Whitman team could have had easily the best offensive infield in the NWC IF Ozzy Braff hadn't transferred to D1. You'd have Zimmer at 3rd, Vela at SS (who was 2nd team all conference last season as Frosh and batting 370 with power this year) and Braff at 2nd, who was a beast in the NWC, was all conference last year at D1 Mountain West Conference and is tearing it up again this year. That scenario would have been surprising.

Oh yea, I remember. Such a bummer Braff transferred. He was a joy to watch. Vela and Zimmer will be tearing up the league for a few more years too... as long as they don't copy Braff  :o
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 01, 2016, 12:54:56 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on March 31, 2016, 08:39:05 PM
Chapman's offense has been solid to very strong, it seems every season since T's departure.  They have/had a number of guys that can really swing it.  What they haven't had is that stable of lights-out pitching, like draft pick guys etc. that they rolled-out for a number of years.  T's penultimate season (I believe), the weekend rotation was essentially Rauh, McGee, Osaki - pretty formidable - although amazingly, that team went 20-20 that year.

Rauh was always lights out. McGee went 4-6 with a 2.64 ERA and Ben Levitt went 2-6 with a 2.55 ERA that year.

The arms that went through that program: Akamine, Klovstad, Ochoa, Drag, Yacko, Kitchens...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 01, 2016, 01:37:13 PM
I saw both of those Chapman teams and they were solid competitive teams even if they did have a ~20/20 seasons, they were very good baseball teams and if they were playing this year would be dominating the SCIAC teams IMO. You are right Whatagame that winning starts with a good and deep pitching staff, particularly when you get to Regionals. If you have two lights out starters and a decent reliever you can win most weekend series.

When Whitworth went to the CWS they beat Trinity two in a row to get out of the Regional and Trinity, arguably a better team, ran out of pitching. They basically had Lucero and Kimesh and not much else.  When CLU came into the Regional a few years ago with the top offense in the country they were shut down in the Regional by good pitching. When you compare the Trinity teams of 4-6 years ago to now the main differences are the pitching staffs. They finally broke through the Regional last year because of that staff. (they also played great defense and hit)  You see them developing the pitchers now, vs a few years ago when they would just ride a couple of pitching horses into the Regional and get knocked out.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 01, 2016, 01:49:41 PM
108 Stiches,

What you describe has been the bane of UTT for several years. A couple of quality starters with a decent # 3 and a good closer. But no depth. So they can win a weekend series and even a conference tournament. However, once they get to a long multi game regional, they have not had success. Especially if they run into an ace and loose an early game being forced into the loser's bracket. That seems the be a common theme with many of the western teams.  They can start play earlier but because of the limitations on games, they spread those out over a longer time and thus don't develop a #4 or #5 starter and a deep bullpen. The northern teams are forced to cram more games into a shorter time frame and thus must develop more pitching depth.  Or at least that seems to explain why the south and western teams don't dominate at the DIV III level like they do in DIV I or even NAIA.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 01, 2016, 04:55:20 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 01, 2016, 01:49:41 PM

What you describe has been the bane of UTT for several years. A couple of quality starters with a decent # 3 and a good closer. But no depth.

To be fair, that's true of *most* Division 3 teams.

Quote from: TexasBB on April 01, 2016, 01:49:41 PM
They can start play earlier but because of the limitations on games, they spread those out over a longer time and thus don't develop a #4 or #5 starter and a deep bullpen. The northern teams are forced to cram more games into a shorter time frame and thus must develop more pitching depth. 

100% agree with this assessment.

Quote from: TexasBB on April 01, 2016, 01:49:41 PM
Or at least that seems to explain why the south and western teams don't dominate at the DIV III level like they do in DIV I or even NAIA.

Possibly, but I also think the climate is very different. I think DIII sports are just more prevalent/taken more seriously in the North East; whereas, junior college  ball is more the norm in the Western/Southern states. I believe Ralph Turner has addressed this much better than I can somewhere else within these forums.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 01, 2016, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 01, 2016, 01:37:13 PM
I saw both of those Chapman teams and they were solid competitive teams even if they did have a ~20/20 seasons, they were very good baseball teams and if they were playing this year would be dominating the SCIAC teams IMO. You are right Whatagame that winning starts with a good and deep pitching staff, particularly when you get to Regionals. If you have two lights out starters and a decent reliever you can win most weekend series.

When Whitworth went to the CWS they beat Trinity two in a row to get out of the Regional and Trinity, arguably a better team, ran out of pitching. They basically had Lucero and Kimesh and not much else.  When CLU came into the Regional a few years ago with the top offense in the country they were shut down in the Regional by good pitching. When you compare the Trinity teams of 4-6 years ago to now the main differences are the pitching staffs. They finally broke through the Regional last year because of that staff. (they also played great defense and hit)  You see them developing the pitchers now, vs a few years ago when they would just ride a couple of pitching horses into the Regional and get knocked out.

I remember one of the big issues with that 20-20, 2012 Chapman team was defense, particularly on the left side of the infield, if I recall.  A quick check shows that almost 30% of the total runs given up by the pitching staff were unearned.  That seems like a lot, but maybe not?

That 2012 Whitworth team was an odd bird, relative to pitching depth and making a run to Appleton.  They really only had one guy, Scheibe, who was a horse.  The rest were a bunch of strike throwers, lower velocity guys if I recall that pitched to a lot of contact.  Whhitworth's team ERA in 2012 was 4.52.  This year's Whitworth squad lacks that ace-type guy, but is probably a better overall staff stuff-wise than '12, they have a very deep lineup offensively this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 01, 2016, 05:25:15 PM
JSG and TexasBB,

These issues have been discussed here for quite awhile. You have some of the WI schools who are large public institutions with limited D1 prospects so they tend to get D1 caliber players, at least in this region. IMO the biggest issue with D3 Western ball is the lack of National seeding for the tournament. As the Linfield players had indicated that the hardest part of the CWS was the Regional playoffs. Trinity saw the same thing last year. A number of the Western regional teams were better (in our opinion) than the some of the teams at the CWS. If you seed it Nationally then you would likely have a higher % of West/South teams. A couple of years ago there were 3 top 12 teams in one Regional, which you would never have in D1 ball. You also have the statistical issue is that there are far fewer Western teams so from a statistical point of view you get a relatively higher % of representation in the top 25. Anyway it is all good, I am looking forward to see who emerges from the ASC and SCIAC this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 01, 2016, 11:07:44 PM
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on April 01, 2016, 04:55:20 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 01, 2016, 01:49:41 PM

What you describe has been the bane of UTT for several years. A couple of quality starters with a decent # 3 and a good closer. But no depth.

To be fair, that's true of *most* Division 3 teams.

Quote from: TexasBB on April 01, 2016, 01:49:41 PM
They can start play earlier but because of the limitations on games, they spread those out over a longer time and thus don't develop a #4 or #5 starter and a deep bullpen. The northern teams are forced to cram more games into a shorter time frame and thus must develop more pitching depth. 

100% agree with this assessment.

Quote from: TexasBB on April 01, 2016, 01:49:41 PM
Or at least that seems to explain why the south and western teams don't dominate at the DIV III level like they do in DIV I or even NAIA.

Possibly, but I also think the climate is very different. I think DIII sports are just more prevalent/taken more seriously in the North East; whereas, junior college  ball is more the norm in the Western/Southern states. I believe Ralph Turner has addressed this much better than I can somewhere else within these forums.

JSG
Thanks for the nice comments.

I think that the JUCO's in Texas take a lot of the pitching talent of the players who see themselves as "Athlete-students". They think that they are gonna get a D-1 scholarship and so they go to an inexpensive JUCO nearby and play for the D1 and D2 scouts.

I think that we have so many more strong state schools conferences in the top echelon of D3 from the cold weather climates because those pitchers are low D1's/high D-2's who did not get the good offer to go South on a 10% scholarship.

So, we see strong state universities in the north fielding quality teams, e.g., the NJAC, the WIAC, the SUNYAC, the Little East, the MASCAC, and other state universities such as SUNY Old Westbury, Castleton State and Farmingdale State.  Those players can play near home and pay in-state tuition,going to school for less than the expensive of a D-1 in the South.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 01, 2016, 11:11:52 PM
If Trinity has gotten to the point that they can develop a pitching staff that lets them win the conference tourney from the consolation bracket, then they will be a force nationally.

I think that the ASC has so many good #1 and #2 pitchers ON EVERY SQUAD, that the every coach is scared not to go with the best guys as long as they can. He cannot risk a bad outing from a #3 versus the #1 from team in the "bottom half" of the conference.  So, the younger guiys do not get developed like we see in the northern teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 02, 2016, 08:16:23 PM
Jack Parman's dinner tonight-
(https://malialitman.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/eating-crow.jpg)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 02, 2016, 08:55:21 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 02, 2016, 08:16:23 PM
Jack Parman's dinner tonight-
(https://malialitman.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/eating-crow.jpg)

I'm telling you, I am still not 100% sold.....BUT I will give them a lot of props for what they are doing.  They came back for a walk-off yesterday and smoked Pomona twice today.  They have won a lot of close games (which is what good teams do) and they are on a roll.  If they sweep La Verne next weekend I will be 100% sold on this team.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on April 04, 2016, 02:03:21 PM
In terms of JUCO baseball in Southern California, the talent is unreal. As a recruiter, I didn't even waste my time looking at starters in the Orange Empire Conference as most of them were D1 guys (I was a NAIA program), instead I went after their role-players and they generally ended up being all-Americans at the NAIA level. For the rest of California/Arizona, it depended on which school it was when outside of the OEC. There are some school that consistently produced quality student-athletes (who I didn't need to worry about being eligible)... Cerro Cosa, College of the Desert, Arizona Western, Rio Hondo, Mt. SAC, etc...

The best event I attended every year was the Unsigned Sophomore Showcase hosted by Loyal Marymount every fall. D1/D2 college coaches from all over the country attended the event and it was a great networking event for me and I simply tried to scoop up what was left after the D1s had their shots at kids.Many JUCO coaches attend as well and it provided a great chance to open line of communication between myself and their programs so that when players came along in the future, I was on the coaches radar of someone to call about a talented kid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 04, 2016, 02:12:43 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 04, 2016, 02:03:21 PM
In terms of JUCO baseball in Southern California, the talent is unreal.

The talent in JUCO ball all over California is just ridiculous. I played on an "average" NorCal JUCO team and over half of our roster went on to play at D1 schools.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 05, 2016, 11:13:53 AM
Latest West teams in poll.
Through games of Sunday April 3, 2016

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (11)   25-5   594   1
2   Cortland (6)   21-4   591   2
3   UW-Whitewater (8)   11-0   572   4
4   Ramapo   16-1-1   564   3
5   Randolph-Macon   20-5-1   497   5
6   Birmingham-Southern   23-7   486   6
7   Emory   23-7   471   7
8   Shenandoah   19-6   421   9
9   Oswego State   17-3   367   13
10   Whitworth   21-6   344   8
11   Salisbury   15-7   335   12
12   Centenary (La.)   21-6   262   16
13   Texas-Tyler   18-8   240   15
14   Christopher Newport   19-8   227   11
15   UW-La Crosse   10-5   209   18
16   Frostburg State   15-7   204   22
17   Amherst   12-3   189   23
18   North Central (Ill.)   12-2   175   19
19   St. Thomas   9-3   166   21
20   Buena Vista   13-3   161   25
21   Wooster   9-3   157   17
22   McDaniel   20-2   136   24
23   Southern Maine   7-5   101   14
24   Occidental   20-5   90   rv
25   Rutgers-Camden   10-6   86   10

Dropped out: No. 20 TCNJ

Others receiving votes: Berry 49, Luther 37, Mary Washington 36, Misericordia 33, Cal Lutheran 27, Wheaton (Mass.) 26, Western New England 25, Concordia Texas 24, Concordia Chicago 23, TCNJ 21, Wesleyan 18, Earlham  17, Keystone 17, Webster 14, Pacific (Ore.) 14, LaGrange 14, Suffolk 12, Marietta 11, George Fox  9, Mitchell 9, La Roche 9, Piedmont 8, Washington College 7, Ferrum 5, N.C. Wesleyan 5, Elms 3, Rose-Hulman 3, Manhattanville 2, Endicott 2, St. John Fisher 2, Alma 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 05, 2016, 03:18:09 PM
What Big Poppa describes about Southern California JUCOs is also the case in Texas. Ralph alluded to that in his post. There are DIV III level JUCOS that play high quality baseball and have won National Championships. (Schools that are in the Dallas County Community College District). Many of these kids end up on NCAA DIV III programs their Junior and Senior years. Of course there are also the DIV I JUCOS that are very competitive nationally. Some but not many of these kids end up in DIV III NCAA programs. Like Big Poppa attested to, these kids tend to be role players that are not likely to receive D-I or D-II scholarships after their sophomore year.  There are also a number of transfers from DIV-I or II NCAA teams that finish with a D-III school. These are kids that may have signed as freshman with a D-I program and find that they are not getting any real playing time so they transfer to a school where they can play and be seen. When Jim Vilade when he was head coach at  UTT  would really push for the JUCO or DIV-1 transfers. He also had scout days where he would bring in professional scouts in to look at his players. He was very successful in placing a lot of players in the Independent Minors after they graduated from UTT. My own son was one of those. Beg borrow and sometimes steal is the life of DIV III coach that is trying to build or maintain a program.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on April 05, 2016, 05:52:23 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 05, 2016, 03:18:09 PM
What Big Poppa describes about Southern California JUCOs is also the case in Texas. Ralph alluded to that in his post. There are DIV III level JUCOS that play high quality baseball and have won National Championships. (Schools that are in the Dallas County Community College District). Many of these kids end up on NCAA DIV III programs their Junior and Senior years. Of course there are also the DIV I JUCOS that are very competitive nationally. Some but not many of these kids end up in DIV III NCAA programs. Like Big Poppa attested to, these kids tend to be role players that are not likely to receive D-I or D-II scholarships after their sophomore year.  There are also a number of transfers from DIV-I or II NCAA teams that finish with a D-III school. These are kids that may have signed as freshman with a D-I program and find that they are not getting any real playing time so they transfer to a school where they can play and be seen. When Jim Vilade when he was head coach at  UTT  would really push for the JUCO or DIV-1 transfers. He also had scout days where he would bring in professional scouts in to look at his players. He was very successful in placing a lot of players in the Independent Minors after they graduated from UTT. My own son was one of those. Beg borrow and sometimes steal is the life of DIV III coach that is trying to build or maintain a program.

Very true.

Newell and Sherman were a D1 guys.

Amyx and Damewood were a JUCO guys.

Jennings was a DII guy.

Copeland, Fox, Holland and Booher were all HS guys, though.

My perception of Vilade and to some extent, Wyczawski, were that they were proactively recruiting within the conference. Was that players proactively saying, UTT is winning and we want on board that train -- or were those guys planting the seed. I can only speculate, but there were always a lot of guys from other ASC teams transferring to UTT (public school = less tuition perhaps?)

Back in the day (04-09) McMurry always had strong JUCO guys and then there's Trinity with their strong AZ/Cali guys.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 05, 2016, 06:30:45 PM
The UT schools have an advantage to recruit Texas players who get benefits of in-state costs and may be borderline D1 players who the Texas D1 teams don't have spots for. Trinity has been able to recruit Nationally (actually internationally now) since they have a large endowment and can attract high academic players with academic scholarships who because of academic reasons don't want to play at the D1 or fall through the D1 cracks. They have also poured a lot of money into their STEM programs so they can attract D1 kids from all over the country. I would think that Southwestern could also fit this model, due to their academic reputation. TLU/Schreiner and some of the other regional Texas private schools tend to get more local players, and in TLU's case they always field a very competitive team. 

With the new head coach at CMS, I would think they could follow the Trinity model with their academic reputation, although there are so many players in California that can get onto California D1 rosters that they probably can get a very competitive team. Oxy and P-P probably fall into this category also. I think the NWest teams are similar to the WI teams where D1 players can stay in region, since there are so few D1 programs around. They also get their spattering of Cali kids who did not make D1 rosters in Cali (where there are probably 3 D1 players for each Cali D1 roster spot)

It is nice to see Oxy in the top 25, which I think is the first time in the 4-5 years I have been following D3 baseball.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2016, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: dp643 on March 28, 2016, 07:45:25 AM
I would agree with the ASC comments above. An interesting team to watch may be Hardin Simmons. After starting 2-6 they have gone 13-1 in their last 14 games. Again, this is against lesser teams, but still noteworthy. They also wont play CTX or UT Tyler in conference play (how in the world did that happen?). Their remaining schedule is fairly weak. They could end up with a pretty impressive record when this is all said and done due to their weak schedule.
I think you got a little bit of an idea on Hardin Simmons last night vs a quality opponent. They may go into the ASC tournament but I would expect them to struggle if last night was an indication. It's only one mid-week game so it is hard to tell, but they also lost 3 to TLU earlier in the season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 06, 2016, 01:14:03 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2016, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: dp643 on March 28, 2016, 07:45:25 AM
I would agree with the ASC comments above. An interesting team to watch may be Hardin Simmons. After starting 2-6 they have gone 13-1 in their last 14 games. Again, this is against lesser teams, but still noteworthy. They also wont play CTX or UT Tyler in conference play (how in the world did that happen?). Their remaining schedule is fairly weak. They could end up with a pretty impressive record when this is all said and done due to their weak schedule.
I think you got a little bit of an idea on Hardin Simmons last night vs a quality opponent. They may go into the ASC tournament but I would expect them to struggle if last night was an indication. It's only one mid-week game so it is hard to tell, but they also lost 3 to TLU earlier in the season.

I think (which is dangerous) the only West teams that have punched their tickets to Spokane are Trinity and Whitworth.  There are plenty of games left but the resume for both teams are solid.  Unless there is an epic collapse, I would expect both of those schools to make it regardless of what happens in conference tournaments.  I could be jumping the gun a little but that's how i see it at this point.

I think the SCIAC is a 1-team bid this year and there are a few big series left to be played.  Both Oxy and Cal Lu have 3 SCIAC losses with Oxy ahead due to playing 3 more SCIAC games.  The race for the top 4 in the SCIAC is a pretty good one and there are a number of teams still in it.  Oxy played a very weak non-conference schedule and that would hurt them a lot if they don't win the SCIAC tourney.

The SCAC is a little tight at the top with TLU undefeated but this weekend (on the road at Trinity) will make or break TLU in the SCAC race.  I would say Centenary is out of contention for an at-large (if they don't win the conference tournament) due to their weak non-conference schedule.

The ASC has UT Tyler and Concordia as potential regional teams but I only see 1 of them making it if they win the ASC tournament.  If neither of them do, it might be tough to get an at-large unless they win most of their remaining games.

The only way the NWC gets 2 teams in is if Whitworth fails to win the conference tournament.

My opinion has the 4 conference winners and 1 at-large from the West with 1 team coming in from another region.  Spokane requires plenty of flights and that will make it a little easier for the NCAA to bring in teams from another region. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 06, 2016, 05:26:05 PM
TLU hasn't played the other quality teams in conference, Trinity or Centenary, so this weekend in San Antonio should be very educational.    Going to make one of the Saturday games.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 08, 2016, 03:52:00 PM
I was wrong (surprised?  lol) - TLU and Trinity did play a non-conference series in Seguin earlier this season, with the Bulldogs winning the first (Ryan Gray's last loss, dropping him to 2-3 at the time) and the Tigers taking both games of the Saturday DH.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 09, 2016, 09:13:47 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 02, 2016, 08:55:21 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 02, 2016, 08:16:23 PM
Jack Parman's dinner tonight-
(https://malialitman.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/eating-crow.jpg)

I'm telling you, I am still not 100% sold.....BUT I will give them a lot of props for what they are doing.  They came back for a walk-off yesterday and smoked Pomona twice today.  They have won a lot of close games (which is what good teams do) and they are on a roll.  If they sweep La Verne next weekend I will be 100% sold on this team.

I am a man of my word.  What OXY is doing is pretty damn impressive.  They have squeaked out some close games with some big comebacks, but they are just beating up on the SCIAC right now.  They have 7 games left and they still play Cal Lu, which is probably the best team they will have played all year.  Still a chance they don't make the SCIAC tournament but I would be shocked if they didn't.  Tip of the cap to Oxy.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 12, 2016, 10:33:22 AM
A bit of shifting around in the top 10, Trinity drops to 4, Whitworth and Centenary more or less hold, Occidental moves up, UTT down to 20, and TLU and CLU join the top ten. Congrates to them and in particular TLU for beating up Trinity over the weekend as well as Occidentals continued run. Nice to see both doing well.

Through games of Sunday April 10, 2016

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Ramapo (12)   19-1-1   591   4
2   UW-Whitewater (4)   14-1   564   3
3   Cortland (3)   22-5   559   2
4   Trinity (Texas) (5)   28-7   546   1
5   Emory (1)   27-7   513   7
6   Randolph-Macon   23-5-1   502   5
7   Shenandoah   23-6   462   8
8   Oswego State   20-3   451   9
9   Birmingham-Southern   25-9   432   6
10   Whitworth   23-7   341   10
11   Salisbury   19-8   315   11
12   UW-La Crosse   14-5   299   15
13   Frostburg State   19-7   291   16
14   Centenary (La.)   23-7   261   12
15   St. Thomas   13-3   244   19
16   Christopher Newport   21-9   194   14
17   Occidental   23-5   171   24
18   Southern Maine   13-5   167   23
19   Amherst   14-4   156   17
20   Texas-Tyler   19-10   129   13
21   McDaniel   22-4   107   22
22   TCNJ   18-4   90   rv
23   North Central (Ill.)   15-4   78   18
24   Texas Lutheran   21-10   66   rv
25   Cal Lutheran   20-9   53   rv

Dropped out: No. 20 Buena Vista, No. 21 Wooster, No. 25 Rutgers-Camden

Others receiving votes: Wartburg 42, LaGrange 42, Wooster 40, La Roche 37, Wesleyan (Conn.) 30, Concordia Texas 26, Wheaton (Mass.) 25, Ferrum 25, Keystone 23, Concordia Chicago 22, Suffolk 21, Buena Vista 20, Berry 15, Maryville (Tenn.) 14, Misericordia 14, Washington (Mo.) 13, Haverford 13, Western New England 13, Mary Washington 12, Rose-Hulman 12, Washington and Lee 11, Denison 10, Mitchell 10, Alma 10, St. John Fisher 8, George Fox 7, Rutgers-Camden 7, Augustana (Ill.) 5, Eastern Conn. State 5, Marietta 4, Earlham 3, Washington College 3, Linfield 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 18, 2016, 02:06:24 PM
Respectfully, everyone is saying that the West is down, (SCIAC, ASC and maybe the NWC with the perception that Linfield did not make the tourney).  The ASC has been competitive with the SCAC which has 3 teams in and around the Top 25.

But, I saw most of the games at the West Region in Tyler and the Region was BALANCED!

Trinity went on the finish 3rd in Wisconsin.

I am not sure that we have a "break-out" dominant team, but I am looking at 12-15 teams in the Region that are in the top 100, even though we are the least numerous region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 18, 2016, 09:31:52 PM
Ralph, (copied from the SCIAC thread)

I would agree with you regarding the West. At the beginning of the season there were not the traditional West powers making noise, so the thought was the "West was down"  however over time other teams have stepped up, including a surprising to some folks, Whitworth due to their losses last year. Centenary and TLU are two strong teams to be feared, Occidental as we have been talking about, as well as consistently competitive teams from UTT and CLU are in the top 25.

I also agree with you regarding Trinity as I watched them for four years go to the West Regional and be one of the top teams there, but with just a tad too little pitching to get them through to Appleton. Clearly in 2013 they were probably the second best team in the country, they just happened to be in the Regional with the best. I expect to see the same in the West regional. TLU or Centenary could knock off Trinity in the SCAC conference, who knows what is going to happen in the SCIAC and NWest, but it is possible to see three at large teams come out of the West depending on what happens in their tournaments, and I certainly did not see that possibility at the beginning of the season.

It is going to be an interesting couple of weeks.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 19, 2016, 02:23:55 PM
UTT has taken a plunge the last 2 weeks dropping 4 of their last 6 conference games. A double header loss to Ozarks was shocking. Something is wrong as both the pitching staff and offense has been having issues.  This should be the time where the good teams get stronger as they head to the conference tournaments. UTT is going in the wrong direction. I expect them to drop out of the top 25 based on their recent performances.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 19, 2016, 04:31:59 PM
Looking at the differences in the d3.com and Collegiate Baseball polls might be a waste of time but below is the differences in the 2 polls. 

                d3               CB             Difference

Trinity        6                 2                -6
Oxy           13                8                -5
Whitworth 14               13               -1
Centenary 18               21               +3
Cal Lu        23              18                -5
TLU           24               31                -7
Concordia 28               42               -14
UT Tyler    30               34               +4
Pacific       54               43               -11

Chapman- 44th in the d3.com poll, no votes in the Collegiate Baseball
Hardin-Simmons- 48th in the d3.com poll, no votes in the Collegiate Baseball
ETBU- 49th in the d3.com poll, no votes in the Collegiate Baseball
Radlands- 0 votes in the d3.com poll, 50th in the Collegiate Baseball         

Like I said, this could be a huge waste of time but it's interesting to see how the voters are so much different in the 2 polls.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 19, 2016, 08:06:23 PM
For ref the D3 poll.

Through games of Sunday April 17, 2016

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland (22)   27-5   620   3
2   Randolph-Macon (1)   26-5-1   532   6
3   UW-Whitewater   17-4   524   2
4   Oswego State   23-3   509   8
5   Ramapo   23-4-1   496   1
6   Trinity (Texas) (1)   29-7   485   4
7   Birmingham-Southern   29-9   451   9
8   Emory   27-9   423   5
9   UW-La Crosse   18-5   412   12
10   St. Thomas (1)   17-3   381   15
11   Shenandoah   26-8   332   7
12   Frostburg State   23-8   321   13
13   Occidental   26-5   281   17
14   Whitworth   25-8   278   10
15   TCNJ   23-4   250   22
16   Southern Maine   18-6   247   18
17   Salisbury   20-10   223   11
18   Centenary (La.)   24-9   138   14
19   Concordia-Chicago   22-7   136   rv
20   Christopher Newport   25-12   116   16
21   North Central (Ill.)   19-5   110   23
22   La Roche   25-7   94   rv
23   Cal Lutheran   23-9   90   25
24   Texas Lutheran   23-11   84   24
25   Amherst   16-6   76   19
Dropped out: No. 20 Texas-Tyler, No. 21 McDaniel.

Others receiving votes: Wartburg 56, Wheaton (Mass.) 40, Concordia Texas 37, LaGrange 36, Texas-Tyler 35, St. John Fisher 28, Misericordia 26, Grinnell 22, Maryville (Tenn.) 21, Marymount 20, McDaniel 20, Buena Vista 19, Denison 17, Keystone 17, Berry 16, Suffolk 16, Tufts 12, Ferrum 11, Chapman 10, Rutgers-Camden 9, Western New England 9, Marietta 8, Hardin-Simmons 6, East Texas Baptist 5, Rose-Hulman 4, Thomas More 4, Wooster 4, Wesleyan (Conn.) 3, Pacific (Ore.) 2, Adrian 1, Johns Hopkins 1, Otterbein 1.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on April 20, 2016, 11:12:33 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 19, 2016, 04:31:59 PM
Looking at the differences in the d3.com and Collegiate Baseball polls might be a waste of time but below is the differences in the 2 polls. 

                d3               CB             Difference

Trinity        6                 2                -6
Oxy           13                8                -5
Whitworth 14               13               -1
Centenary 18               21               +3
Cal Lu        23              18                -5
TLU           24               31                -7
Concordia 28               42               -14
UT Tyler    30               34               +4
Pacific       54               43               -11

Chapman- 44th in the d3.com poll, no votes in the Collegiate Baseball
Hardin-Simmons- 48th in the d3.com poll, no votes in the Collegiate Baseball
ETBU- 49th in the d3.com poll, no votes in the Collegiate Baseball
Radlands- 0 votes in the d3.com poll, 50th in the Collegiate Baseball         

Like I said, this could be a huge waste of time but it's interesting to see how the voters are so much different in the 2 polls.   

Usually by now, there is a consensus but all you have to see in the number of schools receiving votes in both polls that past the top 5-10, every voter is looking to find teams that stick.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 20, 2016, 11:44:30 AM
Are the Regionals the weekend of the 23rd? Trying to decide if I want to make the drive over to Spokane for it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: NWBaseballFan10 on April 20, 2016, 02:32:39 PM
When are they publicizing the first regional rankings? I feel like this is about the time of the year when those rankings are released...

My two cents on the West at this point (pretty similar to the top 25 polls):

1) Trinity
2) Occidental
3) Whitworth
4) Texas Lutheran
5) Cal Lutheran
6) Centenary

Although we may not necessarily see 6 "West" teams in the West Regional this year. The SCAC won't get 3 teams in the Regional for one thing. I expect to see a lot of changes over these next few weeks as conference tourneys start up.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2016, 07:25:06 PM
Quote from: Westside on April 20, 2016, 11:44:30 AM
Are the Regionals the weekend of the 23rd? Trying to decide if I want to make the drive over to Spokane for it.

Yes.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: CAK72B on April 21, 2016, 10:42:44 AM
Quote from: NWBaseballFan10 on April 20, 2016, 02:32:39 PM
When are they publicizing the first regional rankings? I feel like this is about the time of the year when those rankings are released...

My two cents on the West at this point (pretty similar to the top 25 polls):

1) Trinity
2) Occidental
3) Whitworth
4) Texas Lutheran
5) Cal Lutheran
6) Centenary

Although we may not necessarily see 6 "West" teams in the West Regional this year. The SCAC won't get 3 teams in the Regional for one thing. I expect to see a lot of changes over these next few weeks as conference tourneys start up.


I've been out off the message boards for a little bit now but decided to get back in it for a little bit. From watching the d3 landscape, especially in the West, I believe this post is a great summation of what is going on in the region this year. We have 3 teams from the SCAC which is historically a conference that will have max maybe 2 in the numerous rankings and that usually was during the time when Millsaps/Rhodes/Birmingham Southern were members. Also, seeing a team like Occidental this high really makes me wonder 1) The West region has raised the level of competition so teams like Linfield/Trinity stop continuing to dominiate the region 2) The West region may be a little bit down with some traditional powers struggling 3) Maybe a little bit of both

Of note, being a little bit of a SCAC homer, I do not think there has been this many of high level teams in the conference tournament since maybe 2012 when Trinity (lost in regional final), Birmingham Southern (lost in regional final), and Millsaps (CWS appearance) were all teams in the tournament. As stated above it is unlikely all 3 teams will make the field but not being that team that finishes 3rd could pay major dividends down the road with the selection committee.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 21, 2016, 02:39:02 PM
ASC is going to have a team in the Regionals but only the conference champion. Right now I think it is a toss up but CTX has to be the favorite given how UTT has fallen off.

With that said at least one of the SCAC teams will be left at home. I don't see any conference in the West getting more than two invites,  even if one is placed in another region.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 21, 2016, 03:21:37 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on April 21, 2016, 02:39:02 PM
ASC is going to have a team in the Regionals but only the conference champion. Right now I think it is a toss up but CTX has to be the favorite given how UTT has fallen off.

With that said at least one of the SCAC teams will be left at home. I don't see any conference in the West getting more than two invites,  even if one is placed in another region.

Agreed 100%, and I will also be willing to bet that Centenary is not in the top 6 in the RR's at this point.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: sportsfan on April 21, 2016, 04:05:06 PM
agree as the only way Centenary or TLU goes in my opinion is they must win the SCAC.   Trinity in no matter what and i see minimum of one and probably two teams shipped west
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 26, 2016, 10:06:56 AM
Regional rankings are more important than this at this point but here are the National polls.

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland (23)   31-5   623   1
2   Randolph-Macon (2)   28-6-1   569   2
3   Trinity (Texas)   32-7   544   6
4   Birmingham-Southern   34-10   507   7
5   UW-La Crosse   23-6   492   9
6   UW-Whitewater   20-6   467   3
7   Ramapo   27-6-1   459   5
8   Emory   30-10   446   8
9   Shenandoah   30-8   416   11
10   Oswego State   25-7   400   4
11   St. Thomas   21-5   377   10
12   Occidental   28-6   330   13
13   Salisbury   24-10   317   17
14   Concordia-Chicago   26-8   289   19
15   North Central (Ill.)   23-5   280   21
16   TCNJ   26-6   260   15
17   Frostburg State   25-10   220   12
18   Southern Maine   21-9   203   16
19   Whitworth   27-10   188   14
20   La Roche   28-8   115   22
21   Wartburg   24-8   106   rv
22   Cal Lutheran   24-11   75   23
23   Buena Vista   22-8   67   rv
24   Centenary (La.)   26-11   52   18
25   Johns Hopkins   24-9-2   46   rv
Dropped out: No. 20 Christopher Newport No. 24 Texas Lutheran, No. 25 Amherst

Others receiving votes: Keystone 31, Kean 30, Amherst 26, McDaniel 26, St. John Fisher 21, Grinnell 21, Tufts 19, Texas Lutheran 19, Wooster 19, Christopher Newport 15, Texas-Tyler 11, Adrian 10, Western New England 9, Rutgers-Camden 9, Pacific Lutheran 8, Misericordia 6, Denison 5, MIT 5, Wheaton (Mass.) 5, LaGrange 4, Concordia Texas 4, St. Scholastica 4, East Tex. Baptist 3, Suffolk 2, Case Western Reserve 2, Rhodes 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on April 26, 2016, 01:04:02 PM
Regional rankings to be distributed this Thursday.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on April 26, 2016, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 26, 2016, 01:04:02 PM
Regional rankings to be distributed this Thursday.

Can't wait!!!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 26, 2016, 01:33:47 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 26, 2016, 01:04:02 PM
Regional rankings to be distributed this Thursday.

Looking forward to it!

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 03, 2016, 10:53:17 AM
Regional rankings are more important than this, plus teams playing their conference tournaments, but here are National rankings anyway.

Through games of Sunday May 1, 2016

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland (23)   34-5   623   1
2   Randolph-Macon (2)   32-6-1   575   2
3   Trinity (Texas)   35-7   535   3
4   UW-La Crosse   26-7   516   5
5   Birmingham-Southern   37-11   508   4
6   Emory   30-10   463   8
7   Oswego State   29-7   446   10
8   Shenandoah   32-10   391   9
9   Ramapo   29-9-1   374   7
10   Salisbury   25-10   358   13
11   UW-Whitewater   22-9   353   6
12   North Central (Ill.)   26-6   328   15
13   Occidental   30-8   318   12
14   Concordia-Chicago   27-9   311   14
15   St. Thomas   23-9   256   11
16   TCNJ   28-8   205   16
17   Frostburg State   27-10   201   17
18   La Roche   30-8   187   20
19   Southern Maine   25-11   178   18
20   Wartburg   24-8   169   21
21   Whitworth   29-11   136   19
22   Keystone   27-8   97   rv
23   Buena Vista   26-8   92   23
24   Cal Lutheran   27-11   87   22
25   Grinnell   26-4   62   rv
Dropped out: No. 24 Centenary (La.), No. 25 Johns Hopkins.

Others receiving votes: St. John Fisher 43, McDaniel 43, Tufts 33, Wooster 26, Concordia Texas 25, Misericordia 18, Texas Lutheran 14, Johns Hopkins 14, Texas-Tyler 11, Case Western Reserve 11, Kean 11, Western New England 8, Wheaton (Mass.) 8, Centenary (La.) 8, Amherst 7, Marietta 6, Christopher Newport 5, St. Scholastica 4, Otterbein 4, LaGrange 2, Saint John's (Minn.) 2, Denison 1, Rutgers-Camden 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on May 05, 2016, 06:11:22 AM
West Regional Predictions

1. SCAC  Trinity
2. SCIAC Cal Lutheran
3. NWC  Whitworth
4. ASC Concordia Texas
5. SCIAC Occidental
6. Not from the West Region  ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2016, 07:36:06 AM
Quote from: SoCalBaseballfan on May 05, 2016, 06:11:22 AM
West Regional Predictions

1. SCAC  Trinity
2. SCIAC Cal Lutheran
3. NWC  Whitworth Pacific Lutheran
4. ASC Concordia Texas
5. SCIAC Occidental
6. Not from the West Region  ??? ??? ??? ???
Please remember. PLU is the Pool A bid from the NWC.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on May 05, 2016, 11:07:28 AM
Quote from: SoCalBaseballfan on May 05, 2016, 06:11:22 AM
West Regional Predictions

1. SCAC  Trinity
2. SCIAC Cal Lutheran
3. NWC  Whitworth
4. ASC Concordia Texas
5. SCIAC Occidental
6. Not from the West Region  ??? ??? ??? ???

I don't see Cal Lu jumping Whitworth.

I would go:
Trinity
Whitworth
Cal Lu
Oxy
Concordia
PLU

Though they general don't make teams from the same conference play each other first round (right?). So I would flip Oxy and  Concordia so Oxy doesn't play Cal Lu.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2016, 12:25:07 PM
So much for "the West being down this year". I would say "the West is different" with some new faces and some of the old power houses going through a transition, but not down per Ralph's point a while ago as we have seen two "fly in's" in the past.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on May 05, 2016, 04:57:58 PM
Newest regional rankings, look like I was wrong:

1. Trinity
2. Cal Lu
3. Whitworth
4. Concordia
5. Oxy
6. TLU

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 10, 2016, 10:41:34 AM
Does not matter, but here is the top 25. Regional rankings will be interesting later this week.

Through games of Sunday May 8, 2016

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland (23)   37-5   623   1
2   Randolph-Macon (2)   32-6-1   565   2
3   Trinity (Texas)   35-7   563   3
4   UW-La Crosse   31-8   544   4
5   Birmingham-Southern   37-11   521   5
6   Emory   30-10   467   6
7   Oswego State   32-9   415   7
8   Ramapo   33-10-1   384   9
9   Shenandoah   32-10   365   8
10   Salisbury   25-10   351   10
11   Southern Maine   29-11   347   19
12   La Roche   32-8   305   18
13   North Central (Ill.)   28-8   298   12
14   Cal Lutheran   31-11   249   24
15   UW-Whitewater   27-12   248   11
16   Wartburg   31-9   223   20
17   Occidental   32-10   219   13
18   TCNJ   30-10   195   16
19   Concordia-Chicago   29-11   173   14
20   Whitworth   29-11   163   21
21   Keystone   30-9   133   22
22   Buena Vista   31-9   129   23
23   Frostburg State   30-12   119   17
24   St. Thomas   25-13   77   15
25   Wheaton (Mass.)   30-11
61   rv
Dropped out: No. 25 Grinnell.

Others receiving votes: Tufts 60, St. John Fisher 53, Misericordia 47, St. Scholastica 36, Otterbein 32, Wooster 28, Grinnell 24, Marietta 16, Case Western Reserve 15, McDaniel 14, Centenary (La.) 10, Western New England 7, Texas Lutheran 5, Webster 4, Texas-Tyler 3, Johns Hopkins 3, Denison 2, Hardin-Simmons 2, Haverford 2, Ohio Wesleyan 2, Amherst 2, Castleton 1, Endicott 1, LaGrange 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on June 03, 2016, 01:06:14 PM
Final rankings for the year:

016 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, Final


#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (25)   44-7   625   3
2   Cortland   43-8   587   1
3   Keystone   40-11   577   15
4   UW-La Crosse   39-10   535   4
5   La Roche   43-12   531   11
6   Emory   34-12   493   6
7   St. John Fisher   39-13   469   25
8   Randolph-Macon   35-8-1   432   2
9   UW-Whitewater   34-17   424   14
10   Birmingham-Southern   39-13   362   5
11   Shenandoah   35-12   356   9
12   Oswego State   35-11   308   7
13   Tufts   35-8   267   21
14   Ramapo   35-12-1   255   8
15   Susquehanna   33-16   182   -
16   Concordia-Chicago   34-13   163   13
17   Wooster   37-13   146   rv
18   Salisbury   26-12   133   10
20   TCNJ   32-12   127   20
19   North Central (Ill.)   31-12   115   16
21   St. John's   32-14   110   rv
22   Pacific Lutheran   29-19   104   rv
23   Cal Lutheran   31-13   96   12
24   Rose-Hulman   32-13   94   rv
25   Southern Maine   29-13   84   17
Dropped out: No. 18. Whtworth, No. 19, Wartburg, No. 22 Occidental, No. 23 Wheaton (Mass.), No. 24 Misericordia.

Others receiving votes: Kean 71, Occidental 59, Whitworth 50, Mass.-Boston 47, Wartburg 46, Wheaton (Mass.) 38, Luther 34, Texas-Tyler 29, Misericordia 29, St. Scholastica 21, Buena Vista 18, Thomas More 18, Frostburg St. 16, Washington (Mo.) 14, Marietta  12, Otterbein 11, Case Western Reserve 8, Grinnell 8, Johns Hopkins 8, McDaniel 7, St. Thomas (Minn.) 5, Ithaca 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on June 03, 2016, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on June 03, 2016, 01:06:14 PM
Final rankings for the year:

016 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, Final


#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (25)   44-7   625   3*** Illegal use of AZ kids, doesn't count
2   Cortland   43-8   587   1
3   Keystone   40-11   577   15
4   UW-La Crosse   39-10   535   4
5   La Roche   43-12   531   11
6   Emory   34-12   493   6
7   St. John Fisher   39-13   469   25
8   Randolph-Macon   35-8-1   432   2
9   UW-Whitewater   34-17   424   14
10   Birmingham-Southern   39-13   362   5
11   Shenandoah   35-12   356   9
12   Oswego State   35-11   308   7
13   Tufts   35-8   267   21
14   Ramapo   35-12-1   255   8
15   Susquehanna   33-16   182   -
16   Concordia-Chicago   34-13   163   13
17   Wooster   37-13   146   rv
18   Salisbury   26-12   133   10
20   TCNJ   32-12   127   20
19   North Central (Ill.)   31-12   115   16
21   St. John's   32-14   110   rv
22   Pacific Lutheran   29-19   104   rv
23   Cal Lutheran   31-13   96   12
24   Rose-Hulman   32-13   94   rv
25   Southern Maine   29-13   84   17
Dropped out: No. 18. Whtworth, No. 19, Wartburg, No. 22 Occidental, No. 23 Wheaton (Mass.), No. 24 Misericordia.

Others receiving votes: Kean 71, Occidental 59, Whitworth 50, Mass.-Boston 47, Wartburg 46, Wheaton (Mass.) 38, Luther 34, Texas-Tyler 29, Misericordia 29, St. Scholastica 21, Buena Vista 18, Thomas More 18, Frostburg St. 16, Washington (Mo.) 14, Marietta  12, Otterbein 11, Case Western Reserve 8, Grinnell 8, Johns Hopkins 8, McDaniel 7, St. Thomas (Minn.) 5, Ithaca 1.

Fixed it for you....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 03, 2016, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on June 03, 2016, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on June 03, 2016, 01:06:14 PM
Final rankings for the year:

016 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, Final


#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (25)   44-7   625   3*** Illegal use of AZ kids, doesn't count
2   Cortland   43-8   587   1
3   Keystone   40-11   577   15
4   UW-La Crosse   39-10   535   4
5   La Roche   43-12   531   11
6   Emory   34-12   493   6
7   St. John Fisher   39-13   469   25
8   Randolph-Macon   35-8-1   432   2
9   UW-Whitewater   34-17   424   14
10   Birmingham-Southern   39-13   362   5
11   Shenandoah   35-12   356   9
12   Oswego State   35-11   308   7
13   Tufts   35-8   267   21
14   Ramapo   35-12-1   255   8
15   Susquehanna   33-16   182   -
16   Concordia-Chicago   34-13   163   13
17   Wooster   37-13   146   rv
18   Salisbury   26-12   133   10
20   TCNJ   32-12   127   20
19   North Central (Ill.)   31-12   115   16
21   St. John's   32-14   110   rv
22   Pacific Lutheran   29-19   104   rv
23   Cal Lutheran   31-13   96   12
24   Rose-Hulman   32-13   94   rv
25   Southern Maine   29-13   84   17
Dropped out: No. 18. Whtworth, No. 19, Wartburg, No. 22 Occidental, No. 23 Wheaton (Mass.), No. 24 Misericordia.

Others receiving votes: Kean 71, Occidental 59, Whitworth 50, Mass.-Boston 47, Wartburg 46, Wheaton (Mass.) 38, Luther 34, Texas-Tyler 29, Misericordia 29, St. Scholastica 21, Buena Vista 18, Thomas More 18, Frostburg St. 16, Washington (Mo.) 14, Marietta  12, Otterbein 11, Case Western Reserve 8, Grinnell 8, Johns Hopkins 8, McDaniel 7, St. Thomas (Minn.) 5, Ithaca 1.

Fixed it for you....
LOL! 
So, they escaped from the clutches of SCIAC coaches? 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on February 21, 2017, 02:06:19 PM
Texas Tyler is off to a hot start to the 2017 season winning 5 out of their first 6 games including beating the defending national champs, Trinity twice. 

UTT is favored to win the ASC and if the pitching holds will be real threat in the regionals. Way early but an impressive start. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on February 23, 2017, 01:38:01 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on February 21, 2017, 02:06:19 PM
Texas Tyler is off to a hot start to the 2017 season winning 5 out of their first 6 games including beating the defending national champs, Trinity twice. 

UTT is favored to win the ASC and if the pitching holds will be real threat in the regionals. Way early but an impressive start.

Beating Trinity last year was a good feat but not so much this year.  They are not the same team this year but does give a sense of how the Patriots are doing against teams that are consistently at the top of their game.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on February 23, 2017, 03:43:25 PM
I agree with you comment on Trinity not being the same team, yet they were given a top 10 ranking in the pre-season poll. Thus beating them twice is worthy of note and indicates that UTT deserved its top 20 pre-season ranking.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: scac_baseball on February 24, 2017, 02:47:36 PM
TexasBB,

So by that logic you agree that Texas football deserved to be ranked #11 after beating top-10 Notre Dame to start the college football season? Just giving you a hard time (UTT baseball > UT Football), but just shows that a lot of ball is left to play! Especially for D3 baseball, where polls are predominantly "big name" based due to so many teams and so little in-depth knowledge of projections for teams. Hell, I would even argue that in-season polls are average at best. But bottom line yes I agree UTT has flexed some muscle early and looks to be a potential ASC/SCAC favorite to emerge, especially given the slow starts of TLU, Trinity, Centenary (when they play a decent team), Concordia, and ETBU.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on February 25, 2017, 12:32:54 PM
Quote from: scac_baseball on February 24, 2017, 02:47:36 PM
TexasBB,

So by that logic you agree that Texas football deserved to be ranked #11 after beating top-10 Notre Dame to start the college football season? Just giving you a hard time (UTT baseball > UT Football), but just shows that a lot of ball is left to play! Especially for D3 baseball, where polls are predominantly "big name" based due to so many teams and so little in-depth knowledge of projections for teams. Hell, I would even argue that in-season polls are average at best. But bottom line yes I agree UTT has flexed some muscle early and looks to be a potential ASC/SCAC favorite to emerge, especially given the slow starts of TLU, Trinity, Centenary (when they play a decent team), Concordia, and ETBU.

You do not need to know more than Trinity graduated most their team to know that a top 10 ranking is a stretch This will be "corrected" in the poll next week.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on February 26, 2017, 02:01:08 PM
2/26/2017

1) ASC - Texas-Dallas(9-1)
2) ASC - Texas-Tyler(7-1)
3) SCIAC - Chapman(9-2)
4) SCAC - Centenary(11-3)
5) NWC - Pacific Lutheran(6-2)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 01, 2017, 09:57:08 AM
Through games of Sunday February 26, 2016

#
School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Emory (16)   10-0   613   4
2   Cortland (6)   4-1   592   1
3   Birmingham-Southern   9-2   522   6
4   Keystone (2)   0-0   517   2
5   UW-La Crosse   1-1   447   3
6   Shenandoah (1)   7-0   444   16
7   UW-Whitewater   0-0   438   9
8   Ramapo   0-0   396   11
9   Randolph-Macon   6-2   383   10
10   St. John Fisher   1-1   324   8
11   La Roche   0-2   311   5
12   Wooster   0-0   287   14
13   Texas-Tyler   8-2   284   20
14   Kean   5-1   279   19
15   Tufts   0-0   271   13
16   LaGrange   12-1   230   rv
17   TCNJ   0-0   175   18
18   Oswego State   2-2   159   12
19   Trinity (Texas)   6-5   150   7
20   Washington U.   1-2   134   17
21   Marietta   0-0   132   23
22   Concordia-Chicago   2-2   106   15
23   Texas-Dallas   10-1   98   -
24   Otterbein   4-0   76   rv
25   North Central (Ill.)   0-0   61   25
Dropped out: No. 21 Texas Lutheran, No. 22 Cal Lutheran, No. 24 Salisbury

Others receiving votes: Pacific Lutheran 57, UMass-Boston 50, Southern Maine 47, Widener 46, Webster 33, Saint John's (Minn.) 28, Wartburg 27, Whitworth 26, Thomas More 24, Centre 24, Haverford 22, Roanoke 22, Salisbury 22, Wis.-Oshkosh 21, Baldwin Wallace 21, Texas Lutheran 21, Washington & Jefferson 21, Cal Lutheran 20, Chapman 16, Johns Hopkins 16, Hampden-Sydney 14, Adrian 14, MIT 12, Concordia-Texas 11, Centenary (La.) 10, Alvernia 9, Endicott 6, St. Scholastica 5, Ohio Northern 4, St. Thomas (Minn.) 3, Wheaton (Mass.) 3, Buena Vista 2, Frostburg State 1, Salve Regina 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on March 01, 2017, 05:09:51 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches link=topic=7677.msg1794770#msg1794770 date=1488380228

School (1st votes) Rec Pts Prev.
b]13   Texas-Tyler   8-2   284   20[/b]
16   LaGrange   12-1   230   rv
19   Trinity (Texas)   6-5   150   7
23   Texas-Dallas   10-1   98   -
24   Otterbein   4-0   76   rv

Dropped out: No. 21 Texas Lutheran, No. 22 Cal Lutheran, No. 24 Salisbury

Others receiving votes: Pacific Lutheran 57, .....

Usually the teams that get in early games (south, west regions) get a poll boost.  Not this year as two west teams drop and one west team enters the poll, one south is replaced by another south team.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 01, 2017, 08:30:58 PM
I think that this year, the West is much weaker than past years, but it is early so we will see how teams develop. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on March 01, 2017, 08:54:15 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 01, 2017, 08:30:58 PM
I think that this year, the West is much weaker than past years, but it is early so we will see how teams develop.

Maybe in top end talent, but I will say that this is the best NWC I have seen from top to bottom in the 6+ years that I have followed it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 02, 2017, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: Westside on March 01, 2017, 08:54:15 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 01, 2017, 08:30:58 PM
I think that this year, the West is much weaker than past years, but it is early so we will see how teams develop.

Maybe in top end talent, but I will say that this is the best NWC I have seen from top to bottom in the 6+ years that I have followed it.

Really? Better than the Linfield/Whitworth teams from 4-6 years ago?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on March 02, 2017, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 02, 2017, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: Westside on March 01, 2017, 08:54:15 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 01, 2017, 08:30:58 PM
I think that this year, the West is much weaker than past years, but it is early so we will see how teams develop.

Maybe in top end talent, but I will say that this is the best NWC I have seen from top to bottom in the 6+ years that I have followed it.

Really? Better than the Linfield/Whitworth teams from 4-6 years ago?

The highs might not be as high, but the lows not nearly as low as before.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 02, 2017, 02:42:41 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on March 02, 2017, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 02, 2017, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: Westside on March 01, 2017, 08:54:15 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 01, 2017, 08:30:58 PM
I think that this year, the West is much weaker than past years, but it is early so we will see how teams develop.

Maybe in top end talent, but I will say that this is the best NWC I have seen from top to bottom in the 6+ years that I have followed it.

Really? Better than the Linfield/Whitworth teams from 4-6 years ago?

The highs might not be as high, but the lows not nearly as low as before.

Certainly its early, but there looks to be much more parity in the conference as of now, versus the last 6+ seasons.  Just a couple examples, Lewis and Clark leads all conference schools in team batting average, for both overall games played, and for in-conference play, and this includes conference stats from last week's series vs. the best pitching staff, in conference, PLU.

Whitman sits currently 3rd in team ERA for games played overall, and is a very close second to PLU in team ERA for conference play - and is 1.6 ERA points better than Linfield.  They've actually allowed the fewest runs, in conference play (among teams that have played at least 5 conference games), including last Saturday's sweep of Whitworth (the Sunday game was snowed out), the pre-season coaches pick as conference champion, which included a 12K no-hitter (by a Frosh who is currently 3-0 with a sub 1.00 ERA. So yeah, it's currently wide open in the conference.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on March 04, 2017, 11:37:28 AM
March 4, 2017
ASC - Texas-Dallas 12-1
ASC - Texas-Tyler 10-2
NWC -Pacific Lutheran 7-2
SCAC -Centenary 11-3
SCIAC -Chapman10-3
NWC -Pacific Lutheran 7-2
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 06, 2017, 12:51:06 PM
Interesting stuff out West so far...

Texas-Tyler and UT Dallas are off to great starts but they don't play each other in a conference series this year.  Depending on how the rest of the year pans out I could see both of them making it to the Tyler regional.  Louisiana College is 9-3 on the young season but 4 of those wins are against Rust, who is possibly the worst D3 team in the country.

The SCIAC is a little up and down.  Chapman is 6-0 and La Verne and Oxy are both 7-2 with La Verne winning a series against Cal Lu.  CMS is 4-2 but 3 of those wins are against Caltech (in what was a very competitive series).  Cal Lu is 3-3 and has a series win over Oxy and just beat a highly ranked Kean squad.  The rest of the schools have just been beating up on each other but the race for the top 4 should be a good one.

The biggest question in the NWC is what in the world is going on with Whitworth?!?!  Starting out 0-5 is no way to make it into the NWC Tournament and they have to turn it around in a hurry or they will be playing for nothing but pride.  Willamette has series wins over Linfield and Pacific as well as a sweep of Whitworth.  I still see PLU as the favorite in the NWC but some nice surprises up there.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 06, 2017, 01:04:22 PM
I would also add that this year may be the year that Centenary or TLU break through the Trinity juggernaut in the SCAC.  It would not surprise me to see Trinity drop out of the top 20 for the first time in  ... I don't know how many years. They have a lot of young talent, but it is going to take time for them to develop, Scannell has a way of getting his teams ready for the post season, but I am not sure they have enough time to get their young guys developed to compete at the highest level. Centenary seem like they are fielding a competitive team again this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on March 06, 2017, 01:13:48 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 06, 2017, 01:04:22 PM
I would also add that this year may be the year that Centenary or TLU break through the Trinity juggernaut in the SCAC.  It would not surprise me to see Trinity drop out of the top 20 for the first time in  ... I don't know how many years. They have a lot of young talent, but it is going to take time for them to develop, Scannell has a way of getting his teams ready for the post season, but I am not sure they have enough time to get their young guys developed to compete at the highest level. Centenary seem like they are fielding a competitive team again this year.

I need more time to see this team play.  Four wins against Rust inflates their record as CalTech should be favored over Rust.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 06, 2017, 02:36:31 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on March 06, 2017, 01:13:48 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 06, 2017, 01:04:22 PM
I would also add that this year may be the year that Centenary or TLU break through the Trinity juggernaut in the SCAC.  It would not surprise me to see Trinity drop out of the top 20 for the first time in  ... I don't know how many years. They have a lot of young talent, but it is going to take time for them to develop, Scannell has a way of getting his teams ready for the post season, but I am not sure they have enough time to get their young guys developed to compete at the highest level. Centenary seem like they are fielding a competitive team again this year.

I need more time to see this team play.  Four wins against Rust inflates their record as CalTech should be favored over Rust.

Jim-  I agree 100% and that's why I didn't mention them.  Great record so far but the 4 wins against Rust and 2 wins against a school from WI coming straight from the gym seem to inflate things a bit.

I think the SCAC as a whole is pretty down this year but that doesn't mean they won't have success when it comes to the Regionals.  In the past, it seemed like Trinity, TLU and Centenary were all on the map as a legit threat on the national stage.  I don't see that as of now but there is still 2 months left to play.  I feel like the West as a whole is anyones game and Appleton will likely see a new face this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 07, 2017, 11:44:53 AM
2017 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, week 2
Through games of Sunday March 5, 2017

#
School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Emory (17)   12-1   615   1
2   Shenandoah (8)   10-0   568   6
3   Cortland   5-2   550   2
4   Birmingham-Southern   11-3   541   3
5   UW-Whitewater   0-0   449   7
6   Ramapo   0-0   429   8
7   UW-La Crosse   1-1   425   5
8   Texas-Tyler   12-2   381   13
9   St. John Fisher   2-1   369   10
10   LaGrange   15-2   353   16
11   Randolph-Macon   8-4   300   9
12   Wooster   0-0   290   12
13   Tufts   0-0   270   15
14   Keystone   0-2   267   4
15   Texas-Dallas   12-2   220   23
16   Kean   7-3   218   14
17   Oswego State   6-2   217   18
18   Marietta   2-0   203   21
19   Johns Hopkins   4-1   191   rv
20   TCNJ   0-0   174   17
21   La Roche   2-4   104   11
22   Pacific Lutheran   9-3   102   rv
23   Roanoke   11-2   91   rv
24   Baldwin Wallace   8-0   78   rv
25   Concordia-Chicago   3-2   74   22
Dropped out: No. 19 Trinity (Texas), No. 20  Washington (Mo.), No. 24 Otterbein, No. 25 North Central (Ill.).

Others receiving votes: Washington (Mo.) 59, North Central (Ill.) 56, Otterbein 53, Webster 49, Widener 43, Chapman 32, UMass.-Boston 31, Augustana (Ill.) 29, Centenary (La.) 28, Rowan 27, Washington & Jefferson 26, Trinity (Tex.) 26, St. Thomas (Minn.) 23, Salisbury 22, Saint John's (Minn.) 20, Centre 20, Southern Maine 20, Alvernia 16, Hampden-Sydney 12, Thomas More 9, Denison 8, Adrian 7, Elizabethtown 4, St. Scholastica 4, Cal Lutheran 3, Ohio Northern 3, Saint Joseph's (Me.) 3, Texas Lutheran 3, UW-Oshkosh 3, Endicott 2, Frostburg State 2, Illinois Wesleyan 1, MIT 1, Salve Regina 1.

Big day for the Trinity faithful, first time in over 6 years (maybe more) the team has not been ranked. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 07, 2017, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 07, 2017, 11:44:53 AM
2017 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, week 2
Through games of Sunday March 5, 2017

#
School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Emory (17)   12-1   615   1
2   Shenandoah (8)   10-0   568   6
3   Cortland   5-2   550   2
4   Birmingham-Southern   11-3   541   3
5   UW-Whitewater   0-0   449   7
6   Ramapo   0-0   429   8
7   UW-La Crosse   1-1   425   5
8   Texas-Tyler   12-2   381   13
9   St. John Fisher   2-1   369   10
10   LaGrange   15-2   353   16
11   Randolph-Macon   8-4   300   9
12   Wooster   0-0   290   12
13   Tufts   0-0   270   15
14   Keystone   0-2   267   4
15   Texas-Dallas   12-2   220   23
16   Kean   7-3   218   14
17   Oswego State   6-2   217   18
18   Marietta   2-0   203   21
19   Johns Hopkins   4-1   191   rv
20   TCNJ   0-0   174   17
21   La Roche   2-4   104   11
22   Pacific Lutheran   9-3   102   rv
23   Roanoke   11-2   91   rv
24   Baldwin Wallace   8-0   78   rv
25   Concordia-Chicago   3-2   74   22
Dropped out: No. 19 Trinity (Texas), No. 20  Washington (Mo.), No. 24 Otterbein, No. 25 North Central (Ill.).

Others receiving votes: Washington (Mo.) 59, North Central (Ill.) 56, Otterbein 53, Webster 49, Widener 43, Chapman 32, UMass.-Boston 31, Augustana (Ill.) 29, Centenary (La.) 28, Rowan 27, Washington & Jefferson 26, Trinity (Tex.) 26, St. Thomas (Minn.) 23, Salisbury 22, Saint John's (Minn.) 20, Centre 20, Southern Maine 20, Alvernia 16, Hampden-Sydney 12, Thomas More 9, Denison 8, Adrian 7, Elizabethtown 4, St. Scholastica 4, Cal Lutheran 3, Ohio Northern 3, Saint Joseph's (Me.) 3, Texas Lutheran 3, UW-Oshkosh 3, Endicott 2, Frostburg State 2, Illinois Wesleyan 1, MIT 1, Salve Regina 1.

Big day for the Trinity faithful, first time in over 6 years (maybe more) the team has not been ranked.

This is all pretty interesting to see how the voters look at these teams week by week.  Out of curiosity I took a look and compared the Week 1 poll and Week 2 poll to see how it trends for the West teams.  I have no idea how everyone looks at these teams and have zero faith that I could come up with a national poll that is even remotely accurate.

UT Tyler:
Week 1 votes: 284
Week 2 votes: 381
Week 2 results: 4-0

UT Dallas:
Week 1 votes: 98
Week 2 votes: 220
Week 2 results: 3-1

PLU:
Week 1 votes: 57
Week 2 votes: 102
Week 2 results: 2-1

Chapman:
Week 1 votes: 16
Week 2 votes: 32
Week 2 results: 2-2

Centenary:
Week 1 votes: 10
Week 2 votes: 28
Week 2 results: 2-0

Trinity:
Week 1 votes: 150
Week 2 votes: 26
Week 2 results: 2-2

Cal Lu:
Week 1 votes: 20
Week 2 votes: 3
Week 2 results: 1-0

Trinity and Cal Lu were the big "losers" in the poll and I wonder if that simply has more to do with other schools around the country starting to play or if they are just seen in a different light than in the pre-season?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 07, 2017, 02:03:37 PM
It is way too early to have any idea of what the true top 25 will be. Some teams that are ranked have not yet even played yet and several others only have a handful of games.  I would not get too excited until April 1, when most teams will have some games under their belts. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 07, 2017, 02:56:31 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 07, 2017, 02:03:37 PM
It is way too early to have any idea of what the true top 25 will be. Some teams that are ranked have not yet even played yet and several others only have a handful of games.  I would not get too excited until April 1, when most teams will have some games under their belts.

Agreed 100%.  A lot of teams will play their way in or out of the poll.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on March 08, 2017, 10:48:56 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 07, 2017, 02:03:37 PM
It is way too early to have any idea of what the true top 25 will be. Some teams that are ranked have not yet even played yet and several others only have a handful of games.  I would not get too excited until April 1, when most teams will have some games under their belts.

My ballot actually changed very little on the top end for week 2.  This is very unusual for the early part of the season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on March 10, 2017, 01:54:22 AM
ASC - Texas-Tyler 15-2
ASC - Texas-Dallas 13-2
SCAC - Centenary- LA 13-3
NWC - Pacific 9-3
SCIAC - Chapman 12-4
NWC -  Williamette 11-5
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on March 12, 2017, 01:59:10 PM
Quote from: SoCalBaseballfan on March 10, 2017, 01:54:22 AM
ASC - Texas-Tyler 15-2
ASC - Texas-Dallas 13-2
SCAC - Centenary- LA 13-3
NWC - Pacific 9-3
SCIAC - Chapman 12-4
NWC -  Williamette 11-5
Lose 2 out of 3 to Whittier changes this
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 14, 2017, 08:18:03 PM
Pretty depressing from a Western viewpoint...

Through games of Sunday March 12, 2017

#
School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Emory (14)   15-2   603   1
2   Cortland (7)   9-2   582   3
3   Shenandoah (4)   12-1   568   2
4   Birmingham-Southern   14-3   544   4
5   Texas-Tyler   15-2   474   8
6   UW-Whitewater   3-1   452   5
7   LaGrange   18-2   442   10
8   UW-La Crosse   3-1   416   7
9   Wooster   1-0   389   12
10   Randolph-Macon   11-4   366   11
11   Tufts   0-0   334   13
12   Pacific Lutheran   12-3   265   22
13   TCNJ   2-1   260   20
14   Texas-Dallas   15-3   258   15
15   St. John Fisher   5-4   240   9
16   Oswego State   8-3   226   17
17   Ramapo   0-2   189   6
18   Johns Hopkins   5-2   177   19
19   Keystone   3-3   172   14
20   Augustana   8-1   126   rv
21   Rowan   7-2   101   rv
22   Roanoke   14-5   89   23
23   Alvernia   9-0   85   rv
24   Suffolk   3-0   76   -
25   North Central (Ill.)   0-0   69   rv
Dropped out: No. 16 Kean, No. 18 Marietta, No. 21  La Roache, No. 24 Baldwin Wallace, No. 25 Concordia-Chicago.

Others receiving votes: Centenary (La.) 60, Marietta 59, Mass.-Boston 51, Kean 50, Webster 49, Washington & Jefferson 44, La Roche 32, Otterbein 30, Baldwin Wallace 26, Salisbury 25, Concordia (Ill.) 24, Washington (Mo.) 24, Saint Joseph's (Me.) 17, Southern Maine 17, Occidental 16, Chapman 15, Endicott 12, Illinois Wesleyan 12, Centre 10, Adrian 9, Eastern Conn. State 8, Amherst 7, Saint John's (Minn.) 5, La Verne 3, UW-Oshkosh 3, Thomas More 2, Salve Regina 1, Trinity (Tex.) 1, Western New England 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 15, 2017, 01:06:16 PM
Although I am a big UTT fan, I don't think they are a top 5 team. Top 25 yes but not top 5. I would love to proven wrong.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 15, 2017, 01:51:46 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 15, 2017, 01:06:16 PM
Although I am a big UTT fan, I don't think they are a top 5 team. Top 25 yes but not top 5. I would love to proven wrong.

As a SCIAC guy I can assure you Occidental has no business getting votes.  I'll see Centenary play this weekend and am interested to see them since they have such a great record but it doesn't seem like people are sold on them.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 15, 2017, 03:28:15 PM
One of Centenary's losses was to UT Tyler.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 15, 2017, 04:03:06 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 15, 2017, 01:06:16 PM
Although I am a big UTT fan, I don't think they are a top 5 team. Top 25 yes but not top 5. I would love to proven wrong.
I think that UTT has been the beneficiary of "float-up".

They have enough wins (and not many losses to knock them down the ladder) but it is too early in the season to identify teams from the northern and northeastern regions who are worthy of Top 25 votes.

If the "quota" per region for the Top 25 is "3.125", then yes I think that UTT is top 25, one of the 3 best teams in the region.

When a person is filling out the ballot, who does one think deserves to be there as well, having only played 4-8 games?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on March 16, 2017, 01:29:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 15, 2017, 04:03:06 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 15, 2017, 01:06:16 PM
Although I am a big UTT fan, I don't think they are a top 5 team. Top 25 yes but not top 5. I would love to proven wrong.
I think that UTT has been the beneficiary of "float-up".

They have enough wins (and not many losses to knock them down the ladder) but it is too early in the season to identify teams from the northern and northeastern regions who are worthy of Top 25 votes.

If the "quota" per region for the Top 25 is "3.125", then yes I think that UTT is top 25, one of the 3 best teams in the region.

When a person is filling out the ballot, who does one think deserves to be there as well, having only played 4-8 games?

UTT can easily be the top team in the west.  Maybe this id the year to see them in Appleton.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on March 18, 2017, 05:03:30 AM
SCAC Centenary (La.) 17-3
ASC   Texas-Tyler 15-3
ASC   Texas-Dallas 16-4
NWC  Pacific-Lutheran 12-3
SCIAC Occidental 13-5
SCIAC Chapman 14-6
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 20, 2017, 02:27:37 PM
UTT swept its weekend series against Sul Ross State and is now 18-3.  They have  a non-conference game on Weds against Centenary, the second time those teams will face off this year. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 20, 2017, 02:35:27 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on March 20, 2017, 02:27:37 PM
UTT swept its weekend series against Sul Ross State and is now 18-3.  They have  a non-conference game on Weds against Centenary, the second time those teams will face off this year.
A sweep of SRSU is what a Top 10 team needs to do.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 20, 2017, 02:38:34 PM
Correction, the game between UTT and Centenary is Tuesday at Tyler. Centenary has gone 12-0 since they were beat by UTT. UTT is 12-1 at home so far this season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 20, 2017, 06:03:58 PM
I got a chance to see Centenary this past Friday and I really don't know what to make of them.  They definitely have some solid talent on that team but Schreiner was not impressive at all.  The strange thing is that it was a 4 run victory for Centenary and they were given plenty of runs when Schreiner couldn't find balls in the sky.  It was something I have never seen before and most of it occurred within about 10 pitches when Centenary hit fly balls that the Schreiner outfield never saw.  It resulted in a double, triple, and another double.  One of them included a rundown that should have easily ended with an out but it just broke down completely.  Saturday ended with two blowouts so maybe Friday was just one of those nights for Centenary.
I only saw 1 of Centenary's pitchers throw (Kirk) and I didn't think he was throwing very hard until I watched from the side.  He is a big kid and looks like a legit #1 with his only loss coming from UT Tyler.  I left before they went to their bullpen.

Overall, I do think Centenary will be there at the top of the SCAC when it is all said and done and they finally don't have Trinity in their way, but that does not mean TLU or Trinity will be a total pushover.  Plenty of games left to play.

I thought the field at Centenary was pretty nice as well.  The turf infield has to help with fielding % throughout the year and it was a pretty enjoyable place to watch a game.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on March 20, 2017, 10:57:51 PM
MARCH 20, 2017
SCAC Centenary 19-3
ASC Texas-Tyler 18-3
ASC Texas-Dallas 18-4
NWC Pacific Lutheran 14-5
SCIAC Chapman 14-6
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 21, 2017, 12:21:11 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 20, 2017, 06:03:58 PM
I got a chance to see Centenary this past Friday and I really don't know what to make of them.  They definitely have some solid talent on that team but Schreiner was not impressive at all. 
Ya think? You can't judge a team vs playing Schreiner. They may have a few guys and their number one might give you a game, but to judge a top team against them is difficult.

Tyler. I left before they went to their bullpen.
Casino calling?

Overall, I do think Centenary will be there at the top of the SCAC when it is all said and done and they finally don't have Trinity in their way,(boy is that an understatement...ugh) but that does not mean TLU or Trinity will be a total pushover.  Plenty of games left to play. SCAC will boil down to TLU and Centenary IMO.

I thought the field at Centenary was pretty nice as well.  The turf infield has to help with fielding % throughout the year and it was a pretty enjoyable place to watch a game. (Agree an enjoyable place to watch a game and likely place for the SCAC championships)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 21, 2017, 10:59:02 AM
Through games of Sunday March 19, 2017

The West is starting to settle in...

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Shenandoah (14)   14-1   595   3
2   Cortland (4)   12-3   568   2
3   Emory (3)   17-4   550   1
4   UW-Whitewater (1)   6-1   517   6
5   LaGrange (3)   21-2   513   7
6   Texas-Tyler   18-3   511   5
7   Birmingham-Southern   16-5   499   4
8   Wooster   6-1   414   9
9   Randolph-Macon   13-4   381   10
10   Tufts   3-0   360   11
11   UW-La Crosse   6-3   345   8
12   Oswego State   12-4   307   16
13   Johns Hopkins   9-2   291   18
14   Texas-Dallas   18-4   271   14
15   Centenary (La.)   19-3   259   rv
16   Augustana   12-1   223   20
17   TCNJ   7-3   197   13
18   Pacific Lutheran   14-5   188   12
19   Alvernia   9-1   145   23
20   Roanoke   16-5   106   22
21   Otterbein   11-3   80   rv
22   Western New England   8-2   71   rv
23   St. John Fisher   6-5   70   15
24   Ramapo   4-5   51   17
25   Kean   9-6   49   rv
Dropped out: No. 19 Keystone, No. 21. Rowan, 24. Suffolk, 25 North Central (Ill.).

Others receiving votes: Salisbury 45, Occidental 45, Washington & Jefferson 44, Southern Maine 44, Rowan 42, Eastern Connecticut State 34, La Roche 31, Keystone 31, Adrian 5, Washington (Mo.) 24, Catholic 22, Texas Lutheran 21, Bethel (Minn.) 20, Chapman 18, Marietta 15, Cal Lutheran 15, Concordia-Chicago 12, La Verne 11, Concordia-Texas 6, Baldwin Wallace 5, UMass-Boston 5, Saint Joseph's (Maine) 5, Misericordia 4, Salve Regina 4, Illinois Wesleyan 3, Arcadia 2, Mount Union 2, Suffolk 2, Thomas More 2, Webster 2, Saint John's (Minn.) 2, Willamette 2, Denison 1, Wheaton (Ill.) 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 21, 2017, 12:47:54 PM
General Observation between last weeks rankings and this weeks...

School                  Rank (LW)   Total Votes (LW)    Weeks Record    SOS
UT Tyler-               6th (5)        511  (474)             3-1                    136
UT Dallas-            14th (14)     271  (258)             3-1                    181
Centenary-           15th (RV)    259 (60)                3-0                    128
Pacific Lutheran-  18th (12)     188 (265)             2-2                     195

Receiving Votes
School                  Total Votes (LW)    Weeks Record    SOS
OXY-                    45 votes (16)         1-2                     207
Texas Lutheran-   21 votes (0)           4-0                     80
Chapman-            18 votes (15)         1-0                     170
Cal Lu-                 15 votes (0)           4-0                     40
La Verne-             11 votes (3)           1-2                    157
Concordia (TX)-   6 votes (0)             3-1                    118
Willamette-           2 votes (0)             2-2                    162

Some interesting items above....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: tony_baldwin on March 21, 2017, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 21, 2017, 12:21:11 AM
(Agree an enjoyable place to watch a game and likely place for the SCAC championships)

SCAC Championships are set for neutral site this year - Grand Prairie at the AirHogs Stadium.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on March 21, 2017, 03:52:19 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 21, 2017, 12:47:54 PM
General Observation between last weeks rankings and this weeks...

School                  Rank (LW)   Total Votes (LW)    Weeks Record    SOS
UT Tyler-               6th (5)        511  (474)             3-1                    136
UT Dallas-            14th (14)     271  (258)             3-1                    181
Centenary-           15th (RV)    259 (60)                3-0                    128
Pacific Lutheran-  18th (12)     188 (265)             2-2                     195

Receiving Votes
School                  Total Votes (LW)    Weeks Record    SOS
OXY-                    45 votes (16)         1-2                     207
Texas Lutheran-   21 votes (0)           4-0                     80
Chapman-            18 votes (15)         1-0                     170
Cal Lu-                 15 votes (0)           4-0                     40
La Verne-             11 votes (3)           1-2                    157
Concordia (TX)-   6 votes (0)             3-1                    118
Willamette-           2 votes (0)             2-2                    162

Some interesting items above....

JP, is Cal Lu SOS of 40 for the week?  or did their YTD go from 75 to 40 in one week?

2 of victories were Regional games, Whittier (non-conf) and Williamette;  2 victories were non-Regional vs Berry (Ga),   Today they play Non-Regional Williams; and later this year they have 5 Regional games vs NWC teams.    They are definitely focused on improving SOS and Regional rankings
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 21, 2017, 04:37:21 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on March 21, 2017, 03:52:19 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 21, 2017, 12:47:54 PM
General Observation between last weeks rankings and this weeks...

School                  Rank (LW)   Total Votes (LW)    Weeks Record    SOS
UT Tyler-               6th (5)        511  (474)             3-1                    136
UT Dallas-            14th (14)     271  (258)             3-1                    181
Centenary-           15th (RV)    259 (60)                3-0                    128
Pacific Lutheran-  18th (12)     188 (265)             2-2                     195

Receiving Votes
School                  Total Votes (LW)    Weeks Record    SOS
OXY-                    45 votes (16)         1-2                     207
Texas Lutheran-   21 votes (0)           4-0                     80
Chapman-            18 votes (15)         1-0                     170
Cal Lu-                 15 votes (0)           4-0                     40
La Verne-             11 votes (3)           1-2                    157
Concordia (TX)-   6 votes (0)             3-1                    118
Willamette-           2 votes (0)             2-2                    162

Some interesting items above....

JP, is Cal Lu SOS of 40 for the week?  or did their YTD go from 75 to 40 in one week?

2 of victories were Regional games, Whittier (non-conf) and Williamette;  2 victories were non-Regional vs Berry (Ga),   Today they play Non-Regional Williams; and later this year they have 5 Regional games vs NWC teams.    They are definitely focused on improving SOS and Regional rankings

It went from 75-40 in one week.  the SOS will change on a daily basis from here out due to teams finally playing games. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2017, 05:35:28 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 21, 2017, 04:37:21 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on March 21, 2017, 03:52:19 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 21, 2017, 12:47:54 PM
General Observation between last weeks rankings and this weeks...

School                  Rank (LW)   Total Votes (LW)    Weeks Record    SOS
UT Tyler-               6th (5)        511  (474)             3-1                    136
UT Dallas-            14th (14)     271  (258)             3-1                    181
Centenary-           15th (RV)    259 (60)                3-0                    128
Pacific Lutheran-  18th (12)     188 (265)             2-2                     195

Receiving Votes
School                  Total Votes (LW)    Weeks Record    SOS
OXY-                    45 votes (16)         1-2                     207
Texas Lutheran-   21 votes (0)           4-0                     80
Chapman-            18 votes (15)         1-0                     170
Cal Lu-                 15 votes (0)           4-0                     40
La Verne-             11 votes (3)           1-2                    157
Concordia (TX)-   6 votes (0)             3-1                    118
Willamette-           2 votes (0)             2-2                    162

Some interesting items above....

JP, is Cal Lu SOS of 40 for the week?  or did their YTD go from 75 to 40 in one week?

2 of victories were Regional games, Whittier (non-conf) and Williamette;  2 victories were non-Regional vs Berry (Ga),   Today they play Non-Regional Williams; and later this year they have 5 Regional games vs NWC teams.    They are definitely focused on improving SOS and Regional rankings

It went from 75-40 in one week.  the SOS will change on a daily basis from here out due to teams finally playing games.
Of course there are more than 350 teams in D-3. That is only a move of 10%. Kinda like moving from the end of one peloton to the front, but a whole 'nother set are riders are ahead of you.

My thought about the SCIAC is that voters kinda have this idea that the best team in a well-balance conference like the SCIAC ought to be in the Top 21-30 range. 21 gets you 5 votes. 26th gets you none.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2017, 11:21:53 PM
Great game in Tyler tonight.

Centenary 6, UT-Tyler 5.

Cole Lavergne came on in the 3rd innings and shut down Tyler until the 9th, giving up 1 run in 6.1 innings.


http://www.d3baseball.com/seasons/2017/boxscores/20170321_bsr8.xml

Playoff baseball!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 22, 2017, 10:58:07 AM
Type of game you would expect from two top 20 teams. Helps build the reputation of Centenary. Their true test comes in three weeks vs TLU, which will likely set the SCAC tournament seeding. The Trinity series should give them a minor test (*sigh*) as Trinity will be tough at home even though they stink this year. (historically speaking) I noticed TT made three errors but none resulted in runs.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 22, 2017, 04:55:38 PM
These mid-week games you where a team needs to build/find its #4 and #5 starters.  They are also used to get the bullpen work in game situations. Miles Thomas for Tyler had his first start of the year and did well working 4 innings, facing a total of 17 batters and allowing only 2 hits and 1 walk.  However, the bullpen was mixed bag. Tyler used a total of 6 pitchers, with 5 in relief. Three of those allowed no runs and 2 allowed 5 runs. No reliever worked more than 2 innings.  Centenary on the other hand used only 3 pitchers and one went 6 1/3 innings. So the philosophy of how to use your staff in a mid-weak game was different.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2017, 10:10:46 PM
The winner was their closer. He shut down Trinity UT-Tyler,  while Centenary got back into the game.
Strategically, Centenary needed to win this game.
They have a weak non-conference schedule.
The Occidental and/or LaVerne wins might help them.
This ties them head-to-head with (IMHO) another regionally ranked team UT-Tyler, come May.



+1! to 108 stitches for proofreading!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 22, 2017, 11:13:43 PM
I think you meant TT, not Trinity, but I agree with you Ralph, Centenary needed this game, however; at this point I don't see a team out of the West going to Regionals unless they win their conference. TT probably has a chance, due to the fact that they are hosting, but Centenary's SOS is so weak I don't see them getting in if they don't win the SCAC. We just don't have a dominant team like the previous Linfield's, Trinity's or CLU's from past years.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on March 28, 2017, 06:50:28 PM
This weeks updated Top 25:


March 28, 2017
2017 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, week 5
Through games of Sunday March 26, 2017

#
School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Shenandoah (16)   18-1   606   1
2   Cortland (3)   16-3   585   2
3   LaGrange (5)   26-2   569   5
4   UW-Whitewater (1)   9-1   552   4
5   Birmingham-Southern   19-5   489   7
6   Wooster   10-1   479   8
7   Texas-Tyler   21-4   466   6
8   Centenary (La.)   23-3   402   15
9   Tufts   8-1   395   10
10   Emory   19-7   378   3
11   UW-La Crosse   8-3   343   11
12   Randolph-Macon   15-5   340   9
13   Oswego State   12-4   332   12
14   Texas-Dallas   18-4   308   14
15   Augustana   14-2   229   16
16   TCNJ   10-3   219   17
17   Pacific Lutheran   16-5   214   18
18   Alvernia   14-2   212   19
19   Johns Hopkins   13-5   194   13
20   Otterbein   14-4   144   21
21   Roanoke   17-7   57   20
22   Cal Lutheran   14-6   50   rv
23   Washington and Jefferson   8-2   45   rv
24   St. John Fisher   7-5   43   23
25   Kean   12-7   37   25
Dropped out: No. 22. Western New England, No. 24 Ramapo.

Others receiving votes: Catholic 36, La Roche 35, Bethel (Minn.) 33, Salisbury 32, Occidental 32, Chapman 30, Salve Regina 27, Washington (Mo.) 23, Adrian 19, Southern Maine 19, Saint Joseph's (Maine), Eastern Connecticut State 16, Rowan 14, Western New England 13, Denison 12, Texas Lutheran 11, Christopher Newport 9, Concordia-Chicago 8, Keystone 7, UW-Oshkosh 5, Webster 3, Clark 3, Mass.-Boston 2, DePauw 1, Marietta 1, Misericordia 1, Washington and Lee 1, Wheaton (Ill.) 1.

The D3baseball.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly. Full members of NCAA Division III are eligible.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on March 30, 2017, 02:05:40 PM
Centenary and UT-Tyler will play a final tie-breaker game at Centenary (Shreveport, LA) on Tuesday April 11. This of course is a non-conference mid-week game so both teams should be using their #4 and/or #5 starters. These teams based on record and ranking, appear to be the top two in the region. Regional rankings of course are not due for a while, so things can and likely will change. However, they are both in the top 10 nationally according to the latest poll.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on April 02, 2017, 04:08:33 PM
1-Texas-Tyler  25-4
2-Centenary 24-5
3-Texas-Dallas 20-5
4-Cal Lutheran 18-6
5-Pacific Lutheran 17-7
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 04, 2017, 10:49:17 AM
2017 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, week 6
Through games of Sunday April 2, 2017

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Shenandoah (23)   22-1   622   1
2   LaGrange (2)   29-3   581   3
3   Birmingham-Southern   23-5   577   5
4   UW-Whitewater   10-2   535   4
5   Texas-Tyler   25-4   518   7
6   Cortland   18-5   509   2
7   Wooster   13-3   435   6
8   Tufts   11-2   424   9
9   Oswego State   12-4   350   13
10   Centenary (La.)   24-5   337   8
11   Alvernia   17-2-1   334   18
12   Texas-Dallas   20-5   314   14
13   Johns Hopkins   16-5   289   19
14   Augustana   17-3   280   15
15   UW-La Crosse   10-5   270   11
16   Randolph-Macon   17-7   236   12
17   TCNJ   12-5   183   16
18   Washington U.   16-5   175   rv
19   Cal Lutheran   18-6   141   22
20   Otterbein   16-5   115   20
21   Washington and Jefferson 12-3 112   23
22   Salisbury   20-7   87   rv
23   Christopher Newport   22-9   84   rv
24   Emory   19-11   80   10
25   Bethel   17-3   71   rv
Dropped out:No. 17 Pacific Lutheran,  No. 21 Roanoke, No. 24 St, John Fisher, and No. 25 Kean.

Others receiving votes: La Roche 52, St. John Fisher 50, Denison 43, Washington and Lee 36, St. Joseph's (Maine) 34, Pacific Lutheran 34, Kean 31, Salve Regina 26, Occidental 26, Catholic 17, Mount Union 16 Adrian 16, Roanoke 13, Eastern Connecticut State 10, St. Scholastica 10, DePauw 9, Keystone 8, Concordia-Chicago 6, Webster 6, Southern Maine 5, Widener 5, Rowan 3, Texas Lutheran 3, Clark 2, Willamette 2, Marietta 1, UMass.-Boston 1, Wesleyan (Conn.) 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 06, 2017, 02:21:09 PM
I was looking through all of the different D3 Polls and just thought I would throw then on here for comparison.  I looked at the D3.com poll and compared them from there.

                   D3.com         Massey       Boyds        Perfect Game       ABCA      D3.com SOS
UT Tyler       5                   5                 6                8                         3               148
Centenary    10                7                  13              6                         7               184
UT Dallas     12                 15               12              16                       10             223
Cal Lu          19                 4                 3                Not Ranked         13             35
PLU             34 votes        11               11              23                       25             192
Oxy             26 votes        48               43              13                       21             172
TLU             3 votes          47               58              Not Ranked         33 votes   187
Willamette   2 votes          18               19              24                       13 votes    169

Linfield, Chapman, Whitworth and Concordia (TX) were all mentioned in at least one of these polls.  I honestly don't know what to make of any of this but I thought it was interesting to see how different each publication saw each school.  Either way, there are good races in all 4 West conferences and I am looking forward to seeing who comes out on top and who will be in Tyler next month.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2017, 03:34:58 PM
Nicely done...even the formatting. +1
I prefer Massy once enough games get completed as it is a analytical model and not influence by opinions.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 07, 2017, 02:11:00 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2017, 03:34:58 PM
Nicely done...even the formatting. +1
I prefer Massy once enough games get completed as it is a analytical model and not influence by opinions.

Massy is showing Cal Lutheran as #4 in nation with #1 SOS.  Their out of conference games are boosting their SOS;  and they have 3 key games coming up next week against Pac Lutheran.  Those games are shaping up to be very critical in determining Region rankings


Below are 1-3 plus top 6 West teams in top 15...

Massy updated through 04/06:
Team   Record   Δ   Rat   Pwr   Off   Def   SoS   SSF   
LaGrange   29-3                1       1       7    5       60  46
Birmingham So 23-5  +9  2        3     70    1      14   13
Shenandoah 22-2      +1    3      10     37    9    144   69

Cal Lutheran 19-6      +9    4       9      53    4        1   10
UT Tyler        25-4     +3   5      11     87    2       68  36
Centerary      23-5     -5    7       4      13   21    124  57
Pac Luth        17-8     -4   12      6      10   32       3     6
Linfield          17-9     +1  13      8      27   18       5     3
UT Dallas      20-6      -8   15     5      15    22      65   48
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on April 10, 2017, 02:02:11 AM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on April 07, 2017, 02:11:00 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2017, 03:34:58 PM
Nicely done...even the formatting. +1
I prefer Massy once enough games get completed as it is a analytical model and not influence by opinions.

Massy is showing Cal Lutheran as #4 in nation with #1 SOS.  Their out of conference games are boosting their SOS;  and they have 3 key games coming up next week against Pac Lutheran.  Those games are shaping up to be very critical in determining Region rankings


Below are 1-3 plus top 6 West teams in top 15...

Massy updated through 04/06:
Team   Record   Δ   Rat   Pwr   Off   Def   SoS   SSF   
LaGrange   29-3                1       1       7    5       60  46
Birmingham So 23-5  +9  2        3     70    1      14   13
Shenandoah 22-2      +1    3      10     37    9    144   69

Cal Lutheran 19-6      +9    4       9      53    4        1   10
UT Tyler        25-4     +3   5      11     87    2       68  36
Centerary      23-5     -5    7       4      13   21    124  57
Pac Luth        17-8     -4   12      6      10   32       3     6
Linfield          17-9     +1  13      8      27   18       5     3
UT Dallas      20-6      -8   15     5      15    22      65   48

http://www.d3baseball.com/seasons/2017/schedule?tmpl=sos-template

Cal Lutheran SOS is 54 here.  I am not sure how there could be such a difference in SOS between two different sites.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 10, 2017, 09:46:20 AM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 10, 2017, 02:02:11 AM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on April 07, 2017, 02:11:00 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2017, 03:34:58 PM
Nicely done...even the formatting. +1
I prefer Massy once enough games get completed as it is a analytical model and not influence by opinions.

Massy is showing Cal Lutheran as #4 in nation with #1 SOS.  Their out of conference games are boosting their SOS;  and they have 3 key games coming up next week against Pac Lutheran.  Those games are shaping up to be very critical in determining Region rankings


Below are 1-3 plus top 6 West teams in top 15...

Massy updated through 04/06:
Team   Record   Δ   Rat   Pwr   Off   Def   SoS   SSF   
LaGrange   29-3                1       1       7    5       60  46
Birmingham So 23-5  +9  2        3     70    1      14   13
Shenandoah 22-2      +1    3      10     37    9    144   69

Cal Lutheran 19-6      +9    4       9      53    4        1   10
UT Tyler        25-4     +3   5      11     87    2       68  36
Centerary      23-5     -5    7       4      13   21    124  57
Pac Luth        17-8     -4   12      6      10   32       3     6
Linfield          17-9     +1  13      8      27   18       5     3
UT Dallas      20-6      -8   15     5      15    22      65   48

http://www.d3baseball.com/seasons/2017/schedule?tmpl=sos-template

Cal Lutheran SOS is 54 here.  I am not sure how there could be such a difference in SOS between two different sites.

Jim,  I completely agree. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on April 10, 2017, 10:36:44 AM
Massey has Linfield with the #2 SOS, while the D3 site has them at #103 SOS, ha.

We are getting close to the Regional rankings, should be some good competition in the West.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on April 10, 2017, 10:54:44 AM
Quote from: Westside on April 10, 2017, 10:36:44 AM
Massey has Linfield with the #2 SOS, while the D3 site has them at #103 SOS, ha.

We are getting close to the Regional rankings, should be some good competition in the West.

I have not looked at Massey's calculations but I (well d3baseball) uses the NCAA formula.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on April 11, 2017, 12:41:38 AM
Texas-Tyler 28-5
Centenary 26-6
Cal Lutheran 21-6
Texas-Dallas 22-7
East Texas Baptist 22-9
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 11, 2017, 10:02:03 AM
2017 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, week 7
Through games of Sunday April 9, 2017

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Shenandoah (15)   24-2   606   1
2   Birmingham-Southern (4)   27-5   593   3
3   UW-Whitewater (4)   16-2   571   4
4   LaGrange (2)   31-4   560   2
5   Texas-Tyler   28-5   509   5
6   Cortland   22-5   504   6
7   Tufts   15-2   449   8
8   Wooster   16-4   431   7
9   Centenary (La.)   26-6   351   10
10   Johns Hopkins   19-6   344   13
11   Alvernia   20-4-1   319   11
12   Cal Lutheran   21-6   306   19
13   Randolph-Macon   20-7   297   16
14   Oswego State   14-6   280   9
15   Texas-Dallas   22-7   257   12
16   Washington U.   16-5   241   18
17   Washington and Jefferson   15-3   185   21
18   Salisbury   23-7   178   22
19   TCNJ   14-6   175   17
20   Denison   18-3   124   rv
21   St. Joseph's (Maine)   17-2   111   rv
22   La Roche   19-6   105   rv
23   Otterbein   18-6   101   20
24   Augustana   18-6   96   14
25   St. John Fisher   15-6   70   rv

Dropped out: No. 15 UW-La Crosse,  No. 23 Christopher Newport, No. 24 Emory, and No. 25 Bethel.

Others receiving votes: Salve Regina 58, Emory 55, Bethel (Minn.) 31, UW-La Crosse 28, Adrian 27, Mount Union 27, Catholic 25, Occidental 20, Linfield 12, Webster 12, Pacific Lutheran 10, Concordia-Chicago 9, Kean 8, St. Scholastica 8, Keystone 7, Rowan 7, Washington and Lee 7, Widener 6, DePauw 3, Marietta 1, Willamette 1.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 11, 2017, 11:52:36 AM
Quick breakdown of the poll movement from last week to this week...

5. UT Tyler went 3-1 and stayed at #5
9. Centenary went 2-1 and moved from #10 to #9
12. Cal Lu went 3-0 and moved from #19 to #12
15. UT Dallas went 2-2 and moved from #12 to #15

Receiving Votes
Oxy went 2-1 and went from 26 votes to 20 votes
Linfield went 3-1 and went from 0 votes to 12 votes
PLU went 2-2 and went from 34 votes to 10 votes
Willamette went 3-1 and went from 2 votes to 1 vote
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 11, 2017, 05:12:07 PM
The rubber match between UTT and Centenary scheduled for today was cancelled due to inclement weather. I am not sure if the game will be rescheduled.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 12, 2017, 12:48:32 PM
Updated from last week...I placed anyone that is in the top 50 of any poll.  Very interesting to see the difference in how some polls value certain schools so much more than others.

                   D3.com         Massey       Boyds        Perfect Game       ABCA      D3.com SOS
UT Tyler       5                   7                 5                8                         5               136
Centenary    9                   10               14              6                         7               141
Cal Lu          12                 4                 4                NR                      10             48
UT Dallas     15                 27               10              19                       13             236

Oxy             20 votes        43               41              13                       23             198
Linfield        12 votes        14               13              NR                       6 votes     124
PLU             10 votes        16               20              NR                       33 votes   218 
Willamette   1 vote            22               21              24                       12 votes   212
Chapman     NR                19               22              NR                       25 votes   106
CTX             NR                34               35              NR                       11 votes    35
TLU             NR                45                50              NR                       3 votes      105
Whitworth   NR                26                34              NR                       NR             221
Trinity          NR                NR                49             NR                       NR              66
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 18, 2017, 09:33:24 AM
2017 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, week 8
Through games of Sunday April 16, 2017

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Shenandoah (12)   27-3   597   1
2   LaGrange (10)   35-4   591   4
3   UW-Whitewater (3)   20-3   570   3
4   Birmingham-Southern   29-6   567   2
5   Cortland   28-5   526   6
6   Texas-Tyler   28-5   509   5
7   Wooster   19-5   436   8
8   Tufts   18-3-1   417   7
9   Johns Hopkins   24-6   415   10
10   Centenary (La.)   29-6   386   9
11   Randolph-Macon   23-8   306   13
12   Alvernia   23-5-2   302   11
13   TCNJ   20-6   292   19
14   Oswego State   19-7   284   14
15   Texas-Dallas   25-8   269   15
16   Salisbury   26-8   263   18
17   La Roche   21-6   220   22
18   St. John Fisher   18-6   168   25
19   Washington and Jefferson   18-5   128   17
20   Washington U.   18-8   125   16
21   Salve Regina   20-4   119   rv
22   Cal Lutheran   22-9   104   12
23   Mount Union   22-5   79   rv
24   St. Joseph's (Maine)   20-4   78   21
25   Emory   24-11   59   rv
Dropped out: No. 20 Denison, No. 23 Otterbein, No. 24 Augustana.

Others receiving votes: Bethel (Minn.) 45, DePauw 42, Otterbein 38, Augustana (Ill.) 34, Denison 29, Pacific Lutheran 23, St. Scholastica 18, Southern Maine 18, Keystone 12, Webster 10, Adrian 8, Thomas More 8, Rowan 7, Misericordia 6, Concordia-Chicago 4, Occidental 4, Wheaton (Mass.) 4, Willamette 3, Arcadia 1, Marietta 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 18, 2017, 02:24:08 PM
UT Tyler did not play the entire week. They had a rainout for the game at Centenary last Tuesday and no games over the Easter Weekend.  It will be interesting to see if a long layoff impacts their play this week. They are not scheduled to play until this weekend when they host McMurry for 3 games. They finish the regular season on the road the following weekend at East Texas Baptist. The conference tournament first round starts on Friday May 5.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on April 24, 2017, 10:29:29 PM
APRIL 24, 2017
Texas-Tyler 31-5
Centenary 31-7
Texas-Dallas 28-9
Cal Lutheran  26-9
Linfield 28-11
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 25, 2017, 09:59:20 AM
2017 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, week 9
Through games of Sunday April 23, 2017

#
School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Shenandoah (16)   31-3   615   1
2   LaGrange (8)   38-4   604   2
3   Birmingham-Southern (1)   32-6   576   4
4   Texas-Tyler   31-5   535   6
5   Wooster   24-5   500   7
6   UW-Whitewater   23-5   487   3
7   Johns Hopkins   28-6   467   9
8   Cortland   29-7   447   5
9   Oswego State   23-8   384   14
10   Tufts   21-5-1   364   8
11   Centenary (La.)   31-7   353   10
12   Salisbury   30-8   345   16
13   La Roche   26-6   328   17
14   Randolph-Macon   24-10   251   11
15   St. John Fisher   23-6   250   18
16   TCNJ   23-8   229   13
17   Texas-Dallas   28-9   227   15
18   Salve Regina   27-5   196   21
19   Washington and Jefferson   23-7   143   19
20   Washington U.   20-8   134   20
21   Cal Lutheran   26-9   130   22
22   St. Joseph's (Maine)   26-6   93   24
23   Mount Union   25-7   81   23
24   Alvernia   23-10-2   59   12
25   Southern Maine   22-7   52   rv

Dropped out: No. 25 Emory.

Others receiving votes: Emory 48, Bethel (Minn.) 44, DePauw 38, Misericordia 24, Otterbein 22, Adrian 15, Keystone 13, Denison 12, Linfield 10, St. Scholastica 9, Westfield State 7, Augustana (Ill.) 6, Wheaton (Mass.) 5, St. Joseph's (L.I.) 4, Castleton 3, Thomas More 3, Webster 2, Rochester Tech 2, Arcadia 1, Marietta 1, UMass.-Boston 1, WPI 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 25, 2017, 02:06:49 PM
Can anyone confirm that this is the week that Regional Rankings come out?   
I believe last year they came out April 28th.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 25, 2017, 03:46:05 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on April 25, 2017, 02:06:49 PM
Can anyone confirm that this is the week that Regional Rankings come out?   
I believe last year they came out April 28th.

They will be out this Thursday, the 27th.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 25, 2017, 05:24:02 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 25, 2017, 03:46:05 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on April 25, 2017, 02:06:49 PM
Can anyone confirm that this is the week that Regional Rankings come out?   
I believe last year they came out April 28th.

They will be out this Thursday, the 27th.

Thanks JP
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on April 26, 2017, 12:59:35 PM
Important dates in the championship manual - page 11

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBA_PreChampsManual_20170403.pdf

This is a useful link to have and answers many questions.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 26, 2017, 02:28:19 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 26, 2017, 12:59:35 PM
Important dates in the championship manual - page 11

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBA_PreChampsManual_20170403.pdf

This is a useful link to have and answers many questions.

Thanks Jim!

Section 1•4 Important Dates
Thursday, April 27 Regional Ranking No. 1.
Thursday, May 4 Regional Ranking No. 2.
Thursday, May 11 Regional Ranking No. 3.
Sunday, May 14 Regional Ranking No. 4
                          Championship Selections
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 27, 2017, 10:21:22 AM
West Regional Teams

Conference                At Large Possibilities
ASC: TBD                 UTT, UTD
NWC: Linfield            ###
SCIAC: TBD             CLU
SCAC: TBD              Centenary
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 27, 2017, 04:17:21 PM
West Region:Regional rankings 1

Rank   School   Regional Record   Overall record
1.   Linfield                    28-11          28-11
2.   Cal Lutheran              25-9          25-9
3.   Texas-Tyler             27-5          31-5
4.   Centenary (La.)         27-7          27-7
5.   Concordia-Texas    24-10         24-13
6.   Texas-Dallas            25-7         28-9
7.   Chapman                    22-12         22-12
8.   Willamette            28-14           28-14
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on April 27, 2017, 05:21:17 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 27, 2017, 04:17:21 PM
West Region:Regional rankings 1

Rank   School   Regional Record   Overall record
1.   Linfield                    28-11          28-11
2.   Cal Lutheran              25-9          25-9
3.   Texas-Tyler             27-5          31-5
4.   Centenary (La.)         27-7          27-7
5.   Concordia-Texas    24-10         24-13
6.   Texas-Dallas            25-7         28-9
7.   Chapman                    22-12         22-12
8.   Willamette            28-14           28-14

Wow, a bit surprised by the order of 1-3.
SOS seems to have benefited Linfield and CLU over Texas Tyler

Linfield  = 5
CLU   = 32
Texas Tyler   = 90
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 27, 2017, 05:44:26 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 27, 2017, 10:21:22 AM
West Regional Teams

Conference                At Large Possibilities
ASC: TBD                 UTT, UTD
NWC: Linfield            ###
SCIAC: TBD             CLU
SCAC: TBD              Centenary
CTX might be in the hunt for Pool C too.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: wildcat11 on April 27, 2017, 05:45:16 PM
Wow...a team that was 8-7 and 6-5 on march 12th and then to finish up as the 1 seed is pretty damn impressive.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 27, 2017, 06:47:37 PM
I think this says a lot about SOS in the eyes of the decision makers...

Linfield: 4-5 against RR teams
Cal Lu: 6-1 against RR teams
Tyler: 1-1 against RR teams (Centenary)
Centenary: 1-1 against RR teams (Tyler)
Concordia: 5-3 against RR teams
UT Dallas: 1-2 against RR teams (Concordia)
Chapman: 6-4 against RR teams
Willamette: 2-4 against RR teams

Yes, record does matter, but the fact that Linfield and Cal Lu went out and got their schedules the way they did says a lot in the eyes of the committee.  Concordia has been sneaky good this year with nobody really jumping on their bandwagon and Chapman is still in the hunt due to their SOS.  Plenty more to get figured out as all teams still have games (except Willamette). 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on April 28, 2017, 05:10:00 AM
Texas-Tyler 32-5
Centenary 31-7
Texas-Dallas 28-9
Cal-Lutheran 26-9
Linfield 28-11

I saw that Linfield has a losing record vs RR teams
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 28, 2017, 08:52:59 AM
Quote from: SoCalBaseballfan on April 28, 2017, 05:10:00 AM


I saw that Linfield has a losing record vs RR teams

True, but Linfield played 9 games against regionally ranked opponents while other schools ranked behind them played 2.  I wouldn't put as much stock into the actual record (unless they were 0-8 or 0-9) as I would into the fact that they played a tougher schedule.

The 3 teams from the ASC never played each other in conference games.  Tyler is the top seed going into the conference tournament with UT Dallas and Concordia sitting in 3rd and 4th right now.  Things could easily change this weekend and those 3 schools could end up 1,2,3 in the standings without playing each other.  I think the ASC needs to go to divisions asap.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 30, 2017, 01:55:40 PM
UTT finished as regular season ASC champs taking 2 out of three at East Texas Baptist.  So for the regional rankings this week they are 29-6 and finished the regular season 33-6 overall.  The ASC conference tournament begins with this weekend's first round followed by the double ellimination final round the following weekend.  The winner of the tournament gets the ASC automatic regional berth.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on April 30, 2017, 06:58:48 PM
ASC Texas-Tyler 33-6
NWC Linfield 30-12
SCAC Centenary 34-8
SCIAC Cal Lutheran 28-10

Which 30 win team stays home in 2017 after conference tourneys?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 30, 2017, 07:34:42 PM
Not Centenary as they just won the SCAC...
Congrats to the Gents on their first trip to the Regionals!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 01, 2017, 05:52:33 PM
I think UTT will get an at large bid if they win in the first round but loose in the second round of the ASC conference tournament. If they loose in the first round then they may not make it.  UTD will have over 30 wins as well. They need to win the ASC tournament to have a chance IMO.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on May 03, 2017, 09:40:08 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 01, 2017, 05:52:33 PM
I think UTT will get an at large bid if they win in the first round but loose in the second round of the ASC conference tournament. If they loose in the first round then they may not make it.  UTD will have over 30 wins as well. They need to win the ASC tournament to have a chance IMO.

In my opinion 30 win teams be at the top of the list to get a bid. Sorry I hate to see 20 win teams get in over 30 win teams. Winning on the field is what counts. 4 losses to high SOS teams just dont count much for me
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on May 03, 2017, 09:41:00 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 01, 2017, 05:52:33 PM
I think UTT will get an at large bid if they win in the first round but loose in the second round of the ASC conference tournament. If they loose in the first round then they may not make it.  UTD will have over 30 wins as well. They need to win the ASC tournament to have a chance IMO.

In my opinion 30 win teams be at the top of the list to get a bid. Sorry I hate to see 20 win teams get in over 30 win teams. Winning on the field is what counts. 4 losses to high SOS teams just dont count much for me
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 03, 2017, 11:18:57 PM
Quote from: SoCalBaseballfan on May 03, 2017, 09:41:00 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 01, 2017, 05:52:33 PM
I think UTT will get an at large bid if they win in the first round but loose in the second round of the ASC conference tournament. If they loose in the first round then they may not make it.  UTD will have over 30 wins as well. They need to win the ASC tournament to have a chance IMO.

In my opinion 30 win teams be at the top of the list to get a bid. Sorry I hate to see 20 win teams get in over 30 win teams. Winning on the field is what counts. 4 losses to high SOS teams just dont count much for me

Are you saying SOS should have nothing to do with ranking teams?  If a team wins 25 games with a high SOS they deserve it much more than a team with 30 wins that played a bunch of cupcakes.  That's the #1 reason the West rankings are the way they are.  Some teams took it upon themselves to play a strong scheduled and others didn't.  We had this same discussion last year with Oxy as they had 32 wins (I think) but they stayed home because they played an awful schedule.  They would have been in the same boat this year had they not collapsed over the last few weeks.  This is nothing new, some choose to do it and others don't. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalBaseballfan on May 04, 2017, 12:57:28 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 03, 2017, 11:18:57 PM
Quote from: SoCalBaseballfan on May 03, 2017, 09:41:00 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 01, 2017, 05:52:33 PM
I think UTT will get an at large bid if they win in the first round but loose in the second round of the ASC conference tournament. If they loose in the first round then they may not make it.  UTD will have over 30 wins as well. They need to win the ASC tournament to have a chance IMO.

In my opinion 30 win teams be at the top of the list to get a bid. Sorry I hate to see 20 win teams get in over 30 win teams. Winning on the field is what counts. 4 losses to high SOS teams just dont count much for me

Are you saying SOS should have nothing to do with ranking teams?  If a team wins 25 games with a high SOS they deserve it much more than a team with 30 wins that played a bunch of cupcakes.  That's the #1 reason the West rankings are the way they are.  Some teams took it upon themselves to play a strong scheduled and others didn't.  We had this same discussion last year with Oxy as they had 32 wins (I think) but they stayed home because they played an awful schedule.  They would have been in the same boat this year had they not collapsed over the last few weeks.  This is nothing new, some choose to do it and others don't.

SOS should count for wins. Not a big fan of how it helps teams with that loses against high SOS teams. Just showing up dont count for me. I would not toss it out just use it differently. Many programs dont have much say in SOS especially those conferences that have bottom SOS teams in their conference. This an annual argument that I will never win but all you big fans of 20 win teams with high SOS gets in. Sorry I just dont support it.

The season is really has many parts. Win to get into your conference tourney, Win Conference tourney to get to the Regionals, Win the Regionals to get to the Championship Series.I am also ok with elimination of all Pool B and Pool C bids and win to get in tournament. I know another argument I will lose. I just have seen committee's do bad jobs many times picking teams.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 04, 2017, 08:21:03 AM
SoCalBf,

Pool B is the allocation of bids for independents, conferences in transition for membership, new conferences in their first 2 years and conferences that do not have the required 7 Full Members.

The denominator of the calculation is determined by the number of teams of eligible Pool A conferences divided by the number of Pool A conferences.

Let's say that ratio is 8.4.

Let's say that there are 24 Pool B teams. Pool B will get 24/8.4 = 2.86 bids which is truncated down to 2.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 04, 2017, 12:06:27 PM
Regional Rankings as of 5/4/17

1. Centenary
2. Cal Lutheran
3. Linfield
4. UT Tyler
5. Concordia (TX)
6. Chapman
7. UT Dallas
8. Trinity (TX)

Trinity moves into the 8 spot which helps Centenary by having more games with regionally ranked opponents. 

The ASC tournament is huge for Tyler and UT Dallas in regards to Pool C bids.  Both of them better root for Cal Lu this weekend as neither is guaranteed a Pool C bid.  With the SCIAC wrapping up this week it should paint a decent picture before next weeks bids.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on May 04, 2017, 12:20:30 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on April 27, 2017, 05:21:17 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 27, 2017, 04:17:21 PM
West Region:Regional rankings 1

Rank   School   Regional Record   Overall record
1.   Linfield                    28-11          28-11
2.   Cal Lutheran              25-9          25-9
3.   Texas-Tyler             27-5          31-5
4.   Centenary (La.)         27-7          27-7
5.   Concordia-Texas    24-10         24-13
6.   Texas-Dallas            25-7         28-9
7.   Chapman                    22-12         22-12
8.   Willamette            28-14           28-14

Wow, a bit surprised by the order of 1-3.
SOS seems to have benefited Linfield and CLU over Texas Tyler

Linfield  = 5
CLU   = 32
Texas Tyler   = 90

West                                                         Vs Last week
1.   Centenary (Louisiana)      30-8      34-8                 +3
2.   Cal Lutheran                      27-10   27-10                -- 
3.   Linfield                              30-13    30-13                -2
4.   Texas-Tyler                      29-6      33-6                  -1
5.   Concordia University Texas   26-11   26-14                --
6.   Chapman                              25-12   25-12                +1
7.   Texas-Dallas                      28-7      31-9                  -1
8.   Trinity (Texas)                      25-15   27-15                NR

Big jump by Centenary to #1
CLU stayed at #2
Linfield 2-2 last week, resulting in drop from #1 to #3.


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on May 04, 2017, 12:22:39 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 04, 2017, 12:06:27 PM
Regional Rankings as of 5/4/17

1. Centenary
2. Cal Lutheran
3. Linfield
4. UT Tyler
5. Concordia (TX)
6. Chapman
7. UT Dallas
8. Trinity (TX)

Trinity moves into the 8 spot which helps Centenary by having more games with regionally ranked opponents. 

The ASC tournament is huge for Tyler and UT Dallas in regards to Pool C bids.  Both of them better root for Cal Lu this weekend as neither is guaranteed a Pool C bid.  With the SCIAC wrapping up this week it should paint a decent picture before next weeks bids.

While I was typing.. you posted the update!   Good point on Trinity's ranking helping Centenary!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 04, 2017, 12:44:39 PM
Except the NCAA's evaluation sheet (http://web1.ncaa.org/champsel_new/exec/staticpdfrank?doWhat=publicrankingsRedirect&sportCode=MBA&region=40&division=3) shows Centenary as 1-1 vs RROs.   They are 3-3 against Trinity (1-2 RS, 2-1 SCAC championships) and 1-1 against UT-T. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 04, 2017, 01:07:30 PM
Great... Trinity gets a participation trophy  ::)
At least the should be back in the mix next year.

UTT, UTD, cTX and Chapman all have their conference tournaments left and all of them will need to get to the championship game to have a chance of a at large bid. The ASC teams will be rooting for CLU and other high seeds around the country. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 05, 2017, 01:30:11 PM
Trinity is 0-2 against UTT. Against the Ranked opponents UTT is 3-1. Beat Trinity twice and split with Centenary. They went 2-1 on the road last weekend against a good East Texas Baptist team that has won 28 games. With that series UTT won the regular season ASC championship.  Yet they dropped in the regional rankings. Centenary gets a big boost for splitting with Trinity and UTT gets a boot loosing a spot. Go figure.  This could all change once the ASC tournament is finished. If things go as expected UTT and UTD will win their respective 4 team tournaments this weekend and meet next week in a best of 3 final. So if that holds the winner will get 2 wins against a ranked opponent. Thus UTT could end up 5-1 against regionally ranked teams if they win this weekend and sweep the following. If that happens they will be the 1 seed.  Of course they could also loose this weekend and be a spectator at their ownfield for the regionals. Everything is still fluid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 05, 2017, 01:37:57 PM
I forgot to point out that UTT and CTX are in the same bracket this weekend so one of those teams could get two wins against a current ranked opponent. Of course the looser is likely to fall out of the regional ranking.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on May 05, 2017, 01:48:42 PM
CLU is currently 4-1 vs Regional Rank;  3-0 vs Chapman and 1-1 vs Linfield.
We will know later today if they will play Chapman tomorrow morning in SCIAC conf tourney.

As an aside, They were 1-0 against Williamette, who dropped out of Rankings this week.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 05, 2017, 01:52:38 PM
One other interesting point. When the ASC did its internal rankings for the conference tournament they had East Texas Baptist ranked 3 and CTX 4. East Texas Baptist is in the Red bracket hosted by UTD the #2 ranked team. CTX is in the Blue bracket hosted by #1 UTT.  East Texas Baptist had a better record in the ASC and overall 18-6 and 27-13 than did CTX 16-8 and 26-14 but is not ranked in the regionals. Again go figure.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2017, 08:54:49 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 05, 2017, 01:52:38 PM
One other interesting point. When the ASC did its internal rankings for the conference tournament they had East Texas Baptist ranked 3 and CTX 4. East Texas Baptist is in the Red bracket hosted by UTD the #2 ranked team. CTX is in the Blue bracket hosted by #1 UTT. East Texas Baptist had a better record in the ASC and overall 18-6 and 27-13 than did CTX 16-8 and 26-14 but is not ranked in the regionals. Again go figure.
Record against regionally ranked teams is a criterion.

ETBU beat CTX 2-1, but


ETBU went 0-3 vs Centenary
ETBU went 1-2 vs UTT

CTX went 1-2 vs #1 South Region team BSC
CTX went 2-0 vs # 2 Midwest Region team Concordia Chicago
CTX went 2-0 vs UTD.

I think that the record versus Regionally Ranked teams was enough to make the difference.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2018, 08:49:28 PM
First weekend and the weather was beautiful in Tyler today.  Here is my opinion of the "winners" and "losers" of the first weekend.

Winners:

Definitely: Centenary LA  (4-0) Sweeps of Whitworth and Pacific

Good weekend:  Cal Lu hosted Linfield  and won the series 2 games to 1. (This does not necessarily hurt Linfield, IMHO.)

Uncertain:

Whitworth (2-2)  Lost to Centenary LA and swept ETBU.

IMHO did not meet expectations:

Concordia (TX)  (2-2): Beat GFU and Pac Lu;  A Top 25 team should not have lost to both Rhodes and Schreiner.

Pac Lu (1-3): Beat Rhodes  but lost to CTX and TLU.

Any other opinions?









Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on February 05, 2018, 10:11:28 AM
Whitworth from an expectation standpoint is tricky IMO. Voted to finish 2nd in the NWC but lost their head coach. You'd probably like to take one from Centenary, but you have to remember that at this point in the season Whitworth often times hasn't even been outside due to snow (I have no idea if they've had that problem this year). There have been seasons when their opening weekend trip to AZ or TX is the first time they've fielded ground balls.

You're probably right that the split was "meh." I think they believe they have the talent to sweep ETBU and at least split with Cent, but early season I tend to be forgiving of their results. They come back down to TX in a couple of weeks and I think 2 out of 3 would make them "winners" and at that point 1-3 would qualify as being "losers."
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 05, 2018, 11:24:50 AM
I am going to add Whittier to the Winners portion simply because the games they won were often the kind they dropped in the past.  Showing up and giving up 9 runs over 4 games is a great start to the season and they easily could have started 4-0.

I will add Oxy to the Losers portion as they got flat out stomped by Linfield.  Linfield was playing it's 4th game of the weekend and had used a lot of pitching but were able to hold Oxy to 2 hits. Their pitching was also knocked around by Linfield and it looks like their top 3 arms all pitched in the game. Coming out on opening day and laying an egg like that is a bad sign.  Oxy will have plenty of time to prep for their next game as they don't play until the 16th.

We will see what happens with Whitworth over the next few weeks but I do know they did not throw their #1 this past weekend.  I will be in Tyler to watch them when they come back and that weekend should tell us a little more about the type of team they have.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on February 05, 2018, 07:00:14 PM
Centenary is going to be tough to beat this year.   Basically everyone is back from last year's SCAC championship squad.   Six of nine starting position players (including the SCAC PoTY, 1st team All-America C Chris Zapata) and the entire starting pitching rotation (including SCAC pitcher of the year Matthew Devillier and Kaleb Kirk - both of whom won 11 games last year).   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Westside on February 07, 2018, 10:53:59 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 05, 2018, 11:24:50 AM
We will see what happens with Whitworth over the next few weeks but I do know they did not throw their #1 this past weekend.  I will be in Tyler to watch them when they come back and that weekend should tell us a little more about the type of team they have.

Just curious, who do you consider their #1? Young was definitely their best pitcher last year and he started game one this season (and he dominated).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on February 07, 2018, 04:17:39 PM
Quote from: Westside on February 07, 2018, 10:53:59 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 05, 2018, 11:24:50 AM
We will see what happens with Whitworth over the next few weeks but I do know they did not throw their #1 this past weekend.  I will be in Tyler to watch them when they come back and that weekend should tell us a little more about the type of team they have.

Just curious, who do you consider their #1? Young was definitely their best pitcher last year and he started game one this season (and he dominated).

I'd assume he's talking about Smith. Injury problems last year, a little better freshman campaign (2 years ago) than Young had. I should let him answer for himself though...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 07, 2018, 06:34:22 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 07, 2018, 04:17:39 PM
Quote from: Westside on February 07, 2018, 10:53:59 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 05, 2018, 11:24:50 AM
We will see what happens with Whitworth over the next few weeks but I do know they did not throw their #1 this past weekend.  I will be in Tyler to watch them when they come back and that weekend should tell us a little more about the type of team they have.

Just curious, who do you consider their #1? Young was definitely their best pitcher last year and he started game one this season (and he dominated).

I'd assume he's talking about Smith. Injury problems last year, a little better freshman campaign (2 years ago) than Young had. I should let him answer for himself though...

I am talking about Smith.  It's my understanding that he didn't throw last weekend as a precaution but will be back this weekend.  If he can duplicate his Freshman year I think the Pirates will be in a really good position.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2018, 11:23:44 PM
Great tourney in Arizona! Great games in the West Region!

Feb. 8   Concordia (Texas)    2    Chapman    3    Final   BX @ Tuscon, Arizona   

   La Verne    5    at Texas-Tyler    6    Final   BX



Feb. 9   Chapman    9    Texas-Dallas    7    Final   BX @ Tucson, Ariz.
   
   Claremont-Mudd-Scripps    9    Redlands    14    Final   BX @ Tucson, AZ
   
   Texas-Dallas    5    Cal Lutheran    7    Final   BX @ Tucson, Ariz.
   
   Redlands    20    Sul Ross State    6    Final   BX @ Tucson, AZ
   
   La Verne    3    at Texas-Tyler    9    Final
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: MIFDad on February 10, 2018, 04:43:41 PM
Redlands scored 9+ runs in all three games.   :o
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 10, 2018, 06:19:55 PM
Quote from: MIFDad on February 10, 2018, 04:43:41 PM
Redlands scored 9+ runs in all three games.   :o

Redlands has hit the crap out of the ball but honestly, Claremont and Sul Ross are not exactly the best measuring sticks.  UT Dallas has given up 25 runs in 3 games against the SCIAC.  Overall, the SCIAC has played very well in AZ.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 10, 2018, 08:12:28 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 10, 2018, 06:19:55 PM
Quote from: MIFDad on February 10, 2018, 04:43:41 PM
Redlands scored 9+ runs in all three games.   :o

Redlands has hit the crap out of the ball but honestly, Claremont and Sul Ross are not exactly the best measuring sticks.  UT Dallas has given up 25 runs in 3 games against the SCIAC.  Overall, the SCIAC has played very well in AZ.

And right as I say that Cal Lu takes an absolute dump and loses to Concordia 12-6.  Ouch.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2018, 04:29:41 PM
CTX beats Redlands 6-4 in 12 innings. Leiferman doubled to lead off the 12th and scored and then got the win in relief, thanks to a DP. Leadership!

CTX is 4-3 and suspicious because of loss to Schreiner. Having losses to Rhodes and Chapman with wins over George Fox, Redlands, Pac Lu and Cal Lu is a good record.

My assessment is that West Region baseball is very balanced and very deep.  CTX still has games against Wash U StL, Webster and Concordia-Chicago. Those are programs that have strong traditions.

Right now, the SCIAC looks strong as a conference. The 0-4 by UTD is surprising.  It is still too early for me to comment on the NWC and SCAC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2018, 06:13:13 PM
UTT takes 3 from La Verne this weekend and Saturday's weather in Tyler turned miserable... 40 degrees and mist by the end of the game 3.

Great games this weekend in Tyler with Whitworth Trinity and ETBU playing in the Clements Fluids Classic.

Whitworth and Centenary LA also play at UTT on Sat.

Each of these teams should be contenders in their conference races.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on February 14, 2018, 11:18:06 AM
Comets being 0-4 is surprising but 3 of the losses came to the top 3 teams in California and Scripps is 4-3.
Couple of other West teams off to a good start. 
George Fox 6-2, hitting, pitching and fielding better than any team in their conference.
TLU 6-0 after a lopsided win last night.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2018, 12:09:36 PM
Quote from: pirat on February 14, 2018, 11:18:06 AM
Comets being 0-4 is surprising but 3 of the losses came to the top 3 teams in California and Scripps is 4-3.
Couple of other West teams off to a good start. 
George Fox 6-2, hitting, pitching and fielding better than any team in their conference.
TLU 6-0 after a lopsided win last night.
I have really liked how the good teams have faced each other in pre-conference play. I would have expected UTD to split the opening series.
I am glad that GFU is off to the good start. It should make the NWC a real knock down/drag out battle.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2018, 07:13:23 PM
Centenary scores 4 in the top of the 9th to beat UTT, wins 4-2.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 18, 2018, 09:50:47 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2018, 07:13:23 PM
Centenary scores 4 in the top of the 9th to beat UTT, wins 4-2.

= last game of first tournament.....pitching... cough ....cough.....cough....coug....cou...co...c....
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on February 19, 2018, 06:40:02 AM
Trinity is 5-0, all away, after scoring a boatload of runs this weekend in the UT-Tyler tournament, 11-7 over Whitworth, 15-5 over the hosts, and 12-6 against ETBU.   They have what should be an interesting three-game non-conference set with Southwestern (and former assistant coach JC Bunch) this weekend before finally opening at home March 2 with MIT.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on February 19, 2018, 10:49:23 AM
Smith looked good in his first starting appearance. Young got shelled by Trinity, but some consistency from him, a healthy Smith, and continued quality starts from Kingma gives Whitworth a shot at winning the NWC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 19, 2018, 12:49:45 PM
It's still very early but after a quick glance at the standings and it looks like GF in the Northwest seems to be the strongest team at the moment, Redlands and Chapman in the SCIAC, Concordia in the ASC and Trinity, TLU and Centenary in the SCAC. It's not uncommon for a team to struggle early and then get it together during the season, but not in any order these seem to be the best teams.

GF
Redlands
Chapman
Concordia
Trinity
TLU
Centenary

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mike Lehman on February 19, 2018, 06:38:58 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 19, 2018, 12:49:45 PM
It's still very early but after a quick glance at the standings and it looks like GF in the Northwest seems to be the strongest team at the moment, Redlands and Chapman in the SCIAC, Concordia in the ASC and Trinity, TLU and Centenary in the SCAC. It's not uncommon for a team to struggle early and then get it together during the season, but not in any order these seem to be the best teams.

GF
Redlands
Chapman
Concordia
Trinity
TLU
Centenary
Chapman lost 2 to Redlands and needs a great week to get back into this list.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Skips Soldier on February 21, 2018, 02:10:42 PM
Where's the west regional being held this year?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 21, 2018, 03:52:51 PM
Quote from: Skips Soldier on February 21, 2018, 02:10:42 PM
Where's the west regional being held this year?

It hasn't been announced yet but word on the street is Spokane was in the mix.  I am genuinely curious if the HC at Whitworth leaving will change the NCAA's minion that one.  Tyler did itself no favors last year by forgetting to tarp the field and having the regional championship game pushed back and moved to a local JC.  I know Concordia has hosted in Austin in the past and thats always a fun trip.  Hopefully they announce it soon.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on February 21, 2018, 05:05:35 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 19, 2018, 12:49:45 PM
It's still very early but after a quick glance at the standings and it looks like GF in the Northwest seems to be the strongest team at the moment, Redlands and Chapman in the SCIAC, Concordia in the ASC and Trinity, TLU and Centenary in the SCAC. It's not uncommon for a team to struggle early and then get it together during the season, but not in any order these seem to be the best teams.

GF
Redlands
Chapman
Concordia
Trinity
TLU
Centenary

I too like Redlands, Trinity, Chapman and Centenary.  Withholding judgment on TLU and Geo Fox until after this weekend when they have played better competition.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bmo on February 21, 2018, 05:43:42 PM
It's been a long time since So Cal hosted.  I know they hosted, what seemed like every year, last decade.  Any reason? Is Hart the only option with lights?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 21, 2018, 07:10:32 PM
Quote from: Bmo on February 21, 2018, 05:43:42 PM
It's been a long time since So Cal hosted.  I know they hosted, what seemed like every year, last decade.  Any reason? Is Hart the only option with lights?

I believe that is the only one with lights but I think there are issues with the press box, or I completely made that up. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on February 21, 2018, 08:03:36 PM
They can do it at Trinity when they build their new stadium...

Have to ask ex recruiting coach Fregosi about when its going to be built.

LOL.

PS: There is a back story to this one. ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on February 21, 2018, 09:03:54 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 21, 2018, 07:10:32 PM
Quote from: Bmo on February 21, 2018, 05:43:42 PM
It's been a long time since So Cal hosted.  I know they hosted, what seemed like every year, last decade.  Any reason? Is Hart the only option with lights?

I believe that is the only one with lights but I think there are issues with the press box, or I completely made that up.

Unless the new ULV field has lights (still haven't been there), Hart is the only one that does. I think Chapman last hosted there in 2007.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Purple Heys on February 21, 2018, 09:23:43 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on February 21, 2018, 09:03:54 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on February 21, 2018, 07:10:32 PM
Quote from: Bmo on February 21, 2018, 05:43:42 PM
It's been a long time since So Cal hosted.  I know they hosted, what seemed like every year, last decade.  Any reason? Is Hart the only option with lights?

I believe that is the only one with lights but I think there are issues with the press box, or I completely made that up.

Unless the new ULV field has lights (still haven't been there), Hart is the only one that does. I think Chapman last hosted there in 2007.

As of last season the ULV softball field had lights, but the baseball field did not.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on February 21, 2018, 09:39:12 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on February 21, 2018, 08:03:36 PM
They can do it at Trinity when they build their new stadium...

Have to ask ex recruiting coach Fregosi about when its going to be built.

LOL.

PS: There is a back story to this one. ;)

I assume Trinity players were recruited with the same line about playing in a brand new stadium?  Same thing for us back in the mid/late 90's.  It finally happened 10 years later.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on February 23, 2018, 10:17:27 AM
Oh gads, don't get me started on Trinity and stadiums. 

Doubt we're gonna see much baseball played in most of central/south/east TX this weekend ... has been wet, supposed to be wet again tomorrow.  There will be a break in the action later today (already drying out in Central TX) so might get a game or two in later on fields that were covered and/or drain well.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2018, 11:53:22 PM
The first 4 weekends of action have muddied the waters in the West.  No top team has lived up to expectations altho' just how good (or bad) is UHouston-Victoria, who opened with a 3-game set against Trinity Texas (TU-TX, as opposed to Trinity Connecticut).

GFU has won the games it is supposed to win and been close in the rest.  Centenary showed promise. Whitworth has gone 5-6 against a respectable schedule. The SCIAC is a mess, but Redlands has the best season winning percentage. Maybe CTX gets the nod in the ASC. I am sorry that the CTX WashUStL game was canceled. CTX catches Concordia-IL tomorrow.

Has the West just beat up on itself? I don't know.

Any other thoughts?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on February 28, 2018, 01:44:40 PM
My top teams in the Region:  Tyler, Redlands, Centenary, George Fox in that order.
My guess is Trinity will be there as one of the top teams once they get a few more games under their belt.
TLU at 9-3 took a step back this past weekend but still in the hunt.
Early league contenders.
ASC: Tyler, Dallas, maybe Concordia
NWC: Geo Fox, Linfield, Whitworth, maybe Willamette
SCAC: Centenary, Trinity, maybe TLU
SCIAC: Redlands, Chapman, Cal Lu
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mike Lehman on March 05, 2018, 06:01:17 PM
Quote from: pirat on February 28, 2018, 01:44:40 PM
My top teams in the Region:  Tyler, Redlands, Centenary, George Fox in that order.
My guess is Trinity will be there as one of the top teams once they get a few more games under their belt.
TLU at 9-3 took a step back this past weekend but still in the hunt.
Early league contenders.
ASC: Tyler, Dallas, maybe Concordia
NWC: Geo Fox, Linfield, Whitworth, maybe Willamette
SCAC: Centenary, Trinity, maybe TLU
SCIAC: Redlands, Chapman, Cal Lu
March 5, 2018
ASC Texas-Dallas 9-5
NWC George Fox 14-3 Puget Sound 8-3
SCAC Trinity-Texas 8-1 Texas-Lutheran 12-3
SCIAC Redlands 11-3 Pomona 10-4
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 06, 2018, 11:33:38 AM
Through games of Sunday March 4, 2018

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Mass-Boston (10)   1-0   594   3
2   UW-Whitewater (9)   0-0   573   2
3   Washington and Jefferson (2)   1-1   514   4
4   North Central (Ill.)   2-0   502   5
5   Cortland (1)   4-4   447   1
6   Wooster (1)   1-0   435   9
7   Trinity (Texas) (1)   8-1   426   15
8   Centenary (La.)   7-3   392   13

9   Concordia-Chicago   2-2   390   6
10   Southern Maine   0-0   365   11
11   Oswego State   2-1   348   8
12   Johns Hopkins   3-2   344   7
13   Methodist   13-2   328   20
14   Roanoke   7-3   278   16
15   Shenandoah   6-2   248   17
16   Texas-Tyler   8-5   236   12
17   St. Thomas   0-0   212   18
18   George Fox   14-3   209   24
19   TCNJ   1-0   185   19
20   Randolph-Macon   6-2   143   23
21   Wheaton (Mass.)   1-0   121   25
22   Christopher Newport   9-4   90   rv
23   Birmingham-Southern   6-6   85   14
24   Salve Regina   1-0   68   rv
25   Rowan   3-0   56   rv
Dropped out: No. 10 Cal Lutheran, No. 21 Salisbury, No. 22 St. John Fisher.

Others receiving votes: Cal Lutheran 47, Baldwin Wallace 42, St. Scholastica 42, La Roche 39, Frostburg State 37, Marietta 32, Salisbury 30, Ramapo 27, Catholic 23, Mount Union 21, RIT 19, Misericordia 18, Otterbein 18, Adrian 18, Kean 17, UW-La Crosse 16, Millsaps 15, Redlands 13, Alvernia 12, Tufts 12, Texas-Dallas 12, Babson 9, Maryville 7, Texas Lutheran 6, Denison 3, Heidelberg 3, Webster 2, St. John Fisher 2, Earlham 1, Keystone 1, Wartburg 1.

* Mike I think you overlooked Centenary, big games for them this weekend, which will help them immensely if they don't win the SCAC. (which they should have a very good chance to do)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mike Lehman on March 06, 2018, 05:38:58 PM
Quote from: Mike Lehman on March 05, 2018, 06:01:17 PM
Quote from: pirat on February 28, 2018, 01:44:40 PM
My top teams in the Region:  Tyler, Redlands, Centenary, George Fox in that order.
My guess is Trinity will be there as one of the top teams once they get a few more games under their belt.
TLU at 9-3 took a step back this past weekend but still in the hunt.
Early league contenders.
ASC: Tyler, Dallas, maybe Concordia
NWC: Geo Fox, Linfield, Whitworth, maybe Willamette
SCAC: Centenary, Trinity, maybe TLU
SCIAC: Redlands, Chapman, Cal Lu
March 5, 2018
ASC Texas-Dallas 9-5
NWC George Fox 14-3 Puget Sound 8-3
SCAC Trinity-Texas 8-1 Texas-Lutheran 12-3 Centenary (La.)   7-3
SCIAC Redlands 11-3 Pomona 10-4
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Purple Heys on March 06, 2018, 07:50:23 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 06, 2018, 11:33:38 AM
Through games of Sunday March 4, 2018

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Mass-Boston (10)   1-0   594   3
2   UW-Whitewater (9)   0-0   573   2
3   Washington and Jefferson (2)   1-1   514   4
4   North Central (Ill.)   2-0   502   5
5   Cortland (1)   4-4   447   1
6   Wooster (1)   1-0   435   9
7   Trinity (Texas) (1)   8-1   426   15
8   Centenary (La.)   7-3   392   13

9   Concordia-Chicago   2-2   390   6
10   Southern Maine   0-0   365   11
11   Oswego State   2-1   348   8
12   Johns Hopkins   3-2   344   7
13   Methodist   13-2   328   20
14   Roanoke   7-3   278   16
15   Shenandoah   6-2   248   17
16   Texas-Tyler   8-5   236   12
17   St. Thomas   0-0   212   18
18   George Fox   14-3   209   24
19   TCNJ   1-0   185   19
20   Randolph-Macon   6-2   143   23
21   Wheaton (Mass.)   1-0   121   25
22   Christopher Newport   9-4   90   rv
23   Birmingham-Southern   6-6   85   14
24   Salve Regina   1-0   68   rv
25   Rowan   3-0   56   rv
Dropped out: No. 10 Cal Lutheran, No. 21 Salisbury, No. 22 St. John Fisher.

Others receiving votes: Cal Lutheran 47, Baldwin Wallace 42, St. Scholastica 42, La Roche 39, Frostburg State 37, Marietta 32, Salisbury 30, Ramapo 27, Catholic 23, Mount Union 21, RIT 19, Misericordia 18, Otterbein 18, Adrian 18, Kean 17, UW-La Crosse 16, Millsaps 15, Redlands 13, Alvernia 12, Tufts 12, Texas-Dallas 12, Babson 9, Maryville 7, Texas Lutheran 6, Denison 3, Heidelberg 3, Webster 2, St. John Fisher 2, Earlham 1, Keystone 1, Wartburg 1.

* Mike I think you overlooked Centenary, big games for them this weekend, which will help them immensely if they don't win the SCAC. (which they should have a very good chance to do)

Redlands is underrated compared to their performance, Cal Lu is overrated compared to their performance
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: MIFDad on March 06, 2018, 09:16:39 PM
Bigly!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 06, 2018, 10:43:41 PM
Mike: Correction noted.

Purple Heys: Not sure about that. Redlands hasn't faced really top notch competition yet. This weekend against Centenary will be revealing for both programs. CLU will definitely have a down year and has dropped like a rock in the standings and are now out of the top 20 and I don't see them returning.

The enigma for me is TLU who seems like a very competitive team, but dropped a big turd against UT Tyler.

At first pass it looks like the West will have 5 of the 6 teams in their Regional, but it is still early.



Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2018, 11:13:29 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 06, 2018, 10:43:41 PM
Mike: Correction noted.

Purple Heys: Not sure about that. Redlands hasn't faced really top notch competition yet. This weekend against Centenary will be revealing for both programs. CLU will definitely have a down year and has dropped like a rock in the standings and are now out of the top 20 and I don't see them returning.

The enigma for me is TLU who seems like a very competitive team, but dropped a big turd against UT Tyler.

At first pass it looks like the West will have 5 of the 6 teams in their Regional, but it is still early.
I am inclined to think we are seeing the West Region Balance. Every team has a good #1 pitcher and most have a good #2 pitcher. The staffs that have good #3's, middle inning support and a good closer finally work their way to the top, and then we see them in May. I think that CLU was remarkably fortunate to have such good offensive power and solid defense that they could get by with 3 very strong starters and a closer last year.  The prior year, Trinity had a wide, deep, experienced staff that had been developed throughout the season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on March 07, 2018, 11:22:18 AM
My Top teams
ASC:  Tyler, Concordia, Dallas
NWC: George Fox, Linfield, Whitworth
SCAC:  Trinity, Centenary, TLU
SCIAC: Redlands, Chapman, Pomona
Acknowledgements: (NCAA stats)
Hitter: Jonathan Bigley   (Sul Ross)  Senior  Right field   62 ABs 1.475 OPS
Picher:  Ryan Cheatham (Tyler)  Senior   4 starts,   24.1 innings, 0.00 ERA
Carter Buuck (Linfield)    Senior    5 starts, 33.1 innings, .81 ERA 
Blaine Parker   (ETBU)  Freshman   5 starts, 27.2 innings,  .98 ERA
Shortstop:  Aaron Singh  (Redlands)   Junior,  76 chances 1 error
2nd base:  Dustin Meyer (Pacific)  Junior,  92 chances    0 errors
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2018, 07:49:41 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 06, 2018, 10:43:41 PM
Mike: Correction noted.

Purple Heys: Not sure about that. Redlands hasn't faced really top notch competition yet. This weekend against Centenary will be revealing for both programs. CLU will definitely have a down year and has dropped like a rock in the standings and are now out of the top 20 and I don't see them returning.

The enigma for me is TLU who seems like a very competitive team, but dropped a big turd against UT Tyler.

At first pass it looks like the West will have 5 of the 6 teams in their Regional, but it is still early.
I am inclined to think we are seeing the West Region Balance. Every team has a good #1 pitcher and most have a good #2 pitcher. The staffs that have good #3's, middle inning support and a good closer finally work their way to the top, and then we see them in May. I think that CLU was remarkably fortunate to have such good offensive power and solid defense that they could get by with 3 very strong starters and a closer last year.  The prior year, Trinity had a wide, deep, experienced staff that had been developed throughout the season.




...I thought about that post for several minutes when I made it. I now must acknowledge a versatile utility man, C Trey Saito who pulled innings and got decisions, too.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: MIFDad on March 07, 2018, 09:04:57 PM
Here's my common-sense argument for Redlands being underrated, without any sophisticated statistical or SOS knowledge to clutter my brain.

a)  clearly they are more deserving of votes than Cal Lu at this point, yet Cal Lu got a lot more, indicating that voters' awareness of teams has a latency period, and so they are undervaluing Redlands to some degree at least.  b) a SCIAC team has finished the year in the top 25 for 5 of the 7 years so far in this decade.  That would seem to indicate that the league is strong enough that its best team usually makes the top 25. Since player churn year to year is only 25% it's likely that the top SCIAC team belongs in at least spitting distance of the top 25, and Redlands isn't close, so they are undervalued.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2018, 10:16:45 PM
Quote from: MIFDad on March 07, 2018, 09:04:57 PM
Here's my common-sense argument for Redlands being underrated, without any sophisticated statistical or SOS knowledge to clutter my brain.

a)  clearly they are more deserving of votes than Cal Lu at this point, yet Cal Lu got a lot more, indicating that voters' awareness of teams has a latency period, and so they are undervaluing Redlands to some degree at least.  b) a SCIAC team has finished the year in the top 25 for 5 of the 7 years so far in this decade.  That would seem to indicate that the league is strong enough that its best team usually makes the top 25. Since player churn year to year is only 25% it's likely that the top SCIAC team belongs in at least spitting distance of the top 25, and Redlands isn't close, so they are undervalued.
MIFDad,  Thanks for the response.

I think that the West has sorted itself to the degree that we can say for early March.  We may see more decay in the performances of UTT, Centenary LA and/or Trinity TX in the next 6 weeks.  ETBU may be a factor in the West Region.

There are plenty of other programs which have not suffered thru their first 15-20 games with records that are below expectations.  The Northern teams are beginning their Spring Break trips to the south and to Cali.

I think that the SCIAC leader will declare itself by mid April and then resume its position in the Top 25.

If Redlands is 25-7 by April 15, they will be back in the Top 25.

I recommend that you watch as the northern and northeastern teams (from respectable conferences which have placed members in the Top 25 poll 5 of the last 7 years  ;-)  ) begin to sort themselves.

I am watching to see if GFU holds strong, too.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 08, 2018, 12:52:37 PM
I am a little late to the party but the rankings will figure themselves out over the next few weeks.  Was Cal Lu overrated coming into the season?  Absolutely.  Should they still be getting votes after the performance they have shown?  Absolutely not.  They are having a similar start to what Trinity had in 2017.  Trinity started the year at #7, even after losing a majority of their team, just like Cal Lu.  By the 2nd poll, Trinity was out of the top 25.  By the final poll, Trinity received a total of 0 votes.  Does that make both teams terrible?  Not one bit, they just had massive expectations after winning it all.  I am sure there are plenty of coaches and players in the SCIAC that are happy as a pig in sh*t right now because Cal Lu is really struggling.  I don't blame them one bit simply because they have dominated the conference for about 25 years, save a few years where they were a .500 team.  Regardless of all of that, nobody will ever take away what they did last year.

As far as the rest of the West, it's a total crap shoot.  There have been some pretty good performances and some not good performances.  Here are the SOS numbers for the teams that seem to be on everyone's mind at this point.

31- UT Tyler
44- Chapman
71- Cal Lu
74- Redlands
79- Whitworth
92- Trinity
94- Concordia
126- Linfield
149- Centenary
158- UT Dallas
166- Pomona
174- Texas Lutheran
188- George Fox

The sample-size at this point isn't huge, but these numbers will absolutely matter in the eyes of the voters.  Still a ton of baseball to be played but I think the picture will be much more clear by April 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bmo on March 08, 2018, 01:56:58 PM
I just noticed the 2018 championship handbook is out..

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2018DIIIMBA_PreChampsManual_20180302.pdf

Couple interesting items:

- There are 58 playoff participants, 2 more than last year.  40 Pool A, 2 Pool B, 16 Pool C.
- 5 8 team regionals, 3 6 team regionals (in the past, 4/4)
- WIAC Conference is considered Pool B, this year. (top two will most likely be the pool Bs)
- The south region is in Raleigh, NC.  That location makes most of the SAA a potential flight.
- West Region is still yet to be determined.  Seems like Texas would be favorable, as they might be able to bus in the SAA rep, but someone mentioned earlier that Linfield was in consideration.
- Next year will start the 4 team regional, super regional, WS format.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on March 08, 2018, 03:35:36 PM
Significant series in Spokane this weekend.  Geo Fox coming to Whitworth.  Geo Fox brings a nice winning percentage but a weak schedule although they did take 2 of 3 from Linfield.  Whit on the other hand brings a .500 record and having played one of the tougher schedules in the region.  Looks like a matchup of hitting (Geo Fox) vs pitching and defense (Whit).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on March 11, 2018, 07:36:41 PM
Whitworth sweeps George Fox this weekend in Spokane

10-3 with Smith getting the W
7-0 Simmelink struck out 10 over 7 innings
7-1 Young threw a complete game for the Pirates

The Pirates really couldn't have had a better weekend than that. More than just the fact they took 3 from Fox, they looked real good doing it. Hit well, pitched well...really really good series
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 11, 2018, 09:15:42 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 11, 2018, 07:36:41 PM
Whitworth sweeps George Fox this weekend in Spokane

10-3 with Smith getting the W
7-0 Simmelink struck out 10 over 7 innings
7-1 Young threw a complete game for the Pirates

The Pirates really couldn't have had a better weekend than that. More than just the fact they took 3 from Fox, they looked real good doing it. Hit well, pitched well...really really good series

That is a very impressive weekend for the Pirates.  The NWC race should be a really good one.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 11, 2018, 11:08:57 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 11, 2018, 09:15:42 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 11, 2018, 07:36:41 PM
Whitworth sweeps George Fox this weekend in Spokane

10-3 with Smith getting the W
7-0 Simmelink struck out 10 over 7 innings
7-1 Young threw a complete game for the Pirates

The Pirates really couldn't have had a better weekend than that. More than just the fact they took 3 from Fox, they looked real good doing it. Hit well, pitched well...really really good series

That is a very impressive weekend for the Pirates.  The NWC race should be a really good one.

Solid pitching was the early season insight into Whitworth's season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 12, 2018, 12:28:53 PM
Not a great trip for Centenary but I fully expect them to roll Oxy today.  The biggest thing that has hurt (and helped) Centenary on their CA trip is errors.  They have made 12 errors in four games while getting help from Redlands who made 5 errors in Cent's only win.  They dropped a close slug-fest with Cal Lu yesterday but this is a pretty good trip overall for their SOS down the road.

I will still maintain that Trinity is the top team in the West.  They have been pretty dominant so far with only one slip-up against MIT.  The other conferences are a mystery at this point with nobody really separating themselves.

TLU just swept UT Dallas which makes UTD's out of conference record pretty bad.  The biggest issue for TLU is the team just a little bit Southwest of them.

Ut-Tyler just dropped their second conference series in a row.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mike Lehman on March 12, 2018, 01:45:08 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 08, 2018, 12:52:37 PM
I am a little late to the party but the rankings will figure themselves out over the next few weeks.  Was Cal Lu overrated coming into the season?  Absolutely.  Should they still be getting votes after the performance they have shown?  Absolutely not.  They are having a similar start to what Trinity had in 2017.  Trinity started the year at #7, even after losing a majority of their team, just like Cal Lu.  By the 2nd poll, Trinity was out of the top 25.  By the final poll, Trinity received a total of 0 votes.  Does that make both teams terrible?  Not one bit, they just had massive expectations after winning it all.  I am sure there are plenty of coaches and players in the SCIAC that are happy as a pig in sh*t right now because Cal Lu is really struggling.  I don't blame them one bit simply because they have dominated the conference for about 25 years, save a few years where they were a .500 team.  Regardless of all of that, nobody will ever take away what they did last year.

As far as the rest of the West, it's a total crap shoot.  There have been some pretty good performances and some not good performances.  Here are the SOS numbers for the teams that seem to be on everyone's mind at this point.

31- UT Tyler
44- Chapman
71- Cal Lu
74- Redlands
79- Whitworth
92- Trinity
94- Concordia
126- Linfield
149- Centenary
158- UT Dallas
166- Pomona
174- Texas Lutheran
188- George Fox

The sample-size at this point isn't huge, but these numbers will absolutely matter in the eyes of the voters.  Still a ton of baseball to be played but I think the picture will be much more clear by April 1.
March 12, 2018
ASC - Louisiana College 11-3 Concordia Texas 12-6
NWC - Pacific Lutheran 8-2
SCAC - Trinity Texas 10-1 Texas Lutheran 15-3
SCIAC - Pomona Pitzer 13-4 Redlands 13-4

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on March 12, 2018, 05:05:26 PM
QuoteNWC - Pacific Lutheran 8-2

Technically I'm pretty sure the NWC standings look like this...of course this is all so meaningless with the huge disparity in conference games played and being so early in the season

Whitworth 5-1
PLU 7-2
George Fox 8-4
Linfield 7-5
...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 12, 2018, 06:07:22 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 12, 2018, 12:28:53 PM
Not a great trip for Centenary but I fully expect them to roll Oxy today. 


Well, looks like I was waaaaay off on this one.  that is a nightmare of a trip for Centenary who I am sure did not expect to go 1-4.  Oxy is a strange team as they dropped games to Ursinus and Rutgers-Newark, then beat a darn good Centenary team. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Purple Heys on March 12, 2018, 07:24:17 PM
I don't know about anyone else but I am enjoying the hell out of watching the rankings (and ranked teams) get trashed week to week.

This season is crazy.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2018, 07:54:06 PM
Quote from: Purple Heys on March 12, 2018, 07:24:17 PM
I don't know about anyone else but I am enjoying the hell out of watching the rankings (and ranked teams) get trashed week to week.

This season is crazy.

Check out the men's basketball final four.  In the final regular season poll they were #24, ORV, and two receiving no votes at all.  They went straight from crazy to The Twilight Zone!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 13, 2018, 12:36:27 AM
Frankly the National rankings are a beauty contest based on history, but what really matters is regional rankings later in the season. Centenary, while they certainly would have liked a better outcome from their trip, they did themselves a huge favor in their SoS rankings (Massy #5) and potentially in their regional rankings.  I believe two teams from the SCAC will be in the Regional  this year and all teams will need all of the help they can get.  I think Trinity's relatively weak SoS is a bit of a risk for them if they don't win the SCAC but they are certainly back based on their performance early in the season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on March 13, 2018, 10:46:38 AM
What the Top 25 a beauty contest?  Based on history?  I count four teams in the Top 25 that were not there 2-3 years ago.  For the west teams, the initially ranked teams, except for Trinity, never lived up to the expectations.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 13, 2018, 12:23:22 PM
Through games of Sunday March 11, 2018

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Mass-Boston (12)   6-1   602   1
2   UW-Whitewater (9)   0-0   570   2
3   Washington and Jefferson   6-2   540   3
4   North Central (Ill.) (1)   2-0   522   4
5   Trinity (Texas) (2)   10-1   502   7
6   Wooster (1)   1-0   478   6
7   Concordia-Chicago   7-2   465   9
8   Methodist   17-2   452   13
9   Roanoke   10-3   393   14
10   Cortland   5-5   299   5
11   Rowan   6-1   293   25
12   Oswego State   4-3   277   11
13   Shenandoah   7-3   256   15
14   Frostburg State   10-1   248   rv
15   Southern Maine   1-1   241   10
16   Christopher Newport   12-4   209   22
17   Randolph-Macon   8-2   181   20
18   Baldwin Wallace   10-2   164   rv
19   Catholic   11-0   153   rv
20   Centenary (La.)   8-6   142   8
21   Johns Hopkins   4-4   135   12
22   St. Scholastica   3-0   118   rv
23   Texas-Tyler   10-7   93   16
24   George Fox   14-6   80   18
25   Redlands   13-4   68   rv

Dropped out: No. 17 St. Thomas (Minn.), No. 19 TCNJ, No. 21 Wheaton (Mass.), No. 23 Birmingham-Southern, No. 24 Salve Regina.

Others receiving votes: La Roche 57, Texas Lutheran 47, TCNJ 42, Maryville 41, Salisbury 40, Wheaton (Mass.) 37, Marietta 34, Mount Union 32, Berry 31, Webster 30, Millsaps 30, Tufts 27, Salve Regina 24, UW-La Crosse 20, RIT 16, Earlham 16, Cal Lutheran 12, Case Western Reserve 12, Mitchell 10, St. Thomas (Minn.) 10, Spalding 10, Otterbein 10, Adrian 9, LaGrange 9, Concordia (Texas) 6, Mass.-Dartmouth 6, Piedmont 6, Wartburg 5, Franklin 4, Denison 3, Babson 3, Saint John's (Minn.) 2, UW-Oshkosh 2, New York Univ 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 14, 2018, 09:12:20 AM
Just another data point - always interesting to see the differences early in season:

American Baseball Coaches Assn. Baseball Poll (http://baseballnews.com/collegiate-baseball-div-3-poll-3-13-18/)
(As of March 13, 2018)
Rank   Team (2018 Record)   Points   PVS
1.   Mass.-Boston (6-1)   467   5
2.   Trinity (TX) (10-1)   400   RV
3.   Rowan, NJ (6-1)   381   36
4.   Wooster, OH (1-0)   371   9
5.   Washington & Jefferson, PA (6-2)   354   13
6.   Wisc.-Whitewater (0-0)   351   18
7.   Concordia-Chicago, IL (7-2)   339   6
8.   North Central, IL (2-0)   287   4
9.   Roanoke, VA (10-3)   264   10
10.   Methodist, NC (17-2)   246   RV
11.   St. Scholastica, MN (3-0)   155   23
12.   Randolph-Macon, VA (8-2)   153   RV
13.   Oswego St., NY (4-2)   150   15
14.   Redlands, CA (13-4)   146   RV
15.   George Fox, OR (14-6)   143   â€”
16.   Christopher Newport, VA (12-4)   129   RV
17.   Texas Lutheran (15-3)   127   RV
18.   Maryville, TN (17-3)   126   â€”
19.   Frostburg St., MD (10-1)   124   â€”
20.   Southern Maine (1-1)   118   11
21.   La Roche, PA (7-3)   109   31
22.   Berry, GA (12-4)   108   â€”
23.   Case Western Reserve, OH (5-1)   107   RV
24.   Wheaton, MA (4-2)   105   27
25.   Cortland St., NY (5-5)   103   1
26.   Wisc.-La Crosse (2-1)   82   38
27.   Webster, MO (5-2)   75   â€”
28.   Pomona-Pitzer, CA (13-4)   73   â€”
29.   Catholic, D.C. (11-0)   70   RV
30.   Shenandoah, VA (7-3)   68   16

Also Receiving Votes: Millsaps, MS (67), Wartburg, IA (66), Marietta, OH (65), Earlham, IN (62), Babson, MA (61), Johns Hopkins, MD (45), Salisbury, MD (41), Chapman, CA (40), Concordia, TX (32), Misericordia, PA (29), Heidelberg, OH (28), Spalding, KY (27), Cal. Lutheran (25), Arcadia, PA (24), Baldwin Wallace, OH (23), Centenary, LA (21), Salve Regina, R.I. (19), Tufts, MA (18), Franklin, IN (13), Otterbein, OH (11), Mitchell, CT (9), Hood, MD (7), Washington, MO (7), Rhodes, TN (6), Texas-Tyler (3), Whitworth, WA (3), Alvernia, PA (2), Illinois Wesleyan (2), Texas-Dallas (2), Ithaca, NY (1).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on March 14, 2018, 01:37:16 PM
Congratulations to CLU's Coach Marty Slimak for his 700th win yesterday!!


THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. – California Lutheran head baseball coach Marty Slimak got his 700th win as the Kingsmen defeated the Ithaca Bombers 6-3 Tuesday afternoon at Ullman Stadium.

Coach Slimak got his 700th win in his 25th season at the helm of the Kingsmen. He is the 35th coach at the Division III level to accumulate 700 wins. On top of all the wins, the Kingsmen also won the 2017 NCAA World Series. They have six World Series appearances, 15 West Regional appearances and 14 SCIAC Championships.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on March 14, 2018, 03:40:04 PM
My top teams
ASC: Concordia University Texas, Texas-Tyler, Texas-Dallas
Conference winning percentage .523 3nd  in region.  Average conference schedule strength 186th in country.
NWC: Whitworth, George Fox, Linfield 
Conference winning percentage .485 4th in region.  Average conference schedule strength 174th in country.
SCAC: Trinity, Texas Lutheran, Centenary
Conference winning percentage .594 1st in region.  Average conference schedule strength 182nd in country.
SCIAC: Redlands, Chapman, Cal Lutheran
Conference winning percentage .581 2nd in region.  Average conference schedule strength 166th in country.   

Significant series this weekend. Texas-Tyler & Texas-Dallas.  Whitworth & Pacific Lutheran.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 14, 2018, 04:11:44 PM
Top 40 based on Massy
https://www.masseyratings.com/cbase/11620/ratings

I picked out the top 10 SoS from the West just as a reference as it should help when the Regional rankings come out later in the season.

                                    SoS
1. Trinity TX
2. TX Lutheran

3. Rowan
4. Redlands
5. MA Boston
6. Concordia IL
7. Randolph Macon
8. St Scholastica
9. Webster Univ
10. Earlham
11. Whitworth     3
12. Marietta
13. Franklin IN
14 Babson
15. Methodist
16. Baldwin-Wallace
17. Bethel MN
18. George Fox
19. Denison
20 North Coast AC
21. Case Western
22. Linfield                 5
23. Concordia TX

24. Endicott
25. Pac Lutheran         9
26. UT Tyler
              4
27. Salve Regina
28. Millsaps
29. Hood
30 Chapman
31. Arcadia
32. NE W&M
33. Catholic
34. IL Wesleyan
35. St John's MN
36. Centenary      7
37. Berry
38 Mitchell
39. Millikin
40. Frostburg St

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 14, 2018, 06:05:13 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 14, 2018, 04:11:44 PM
Top 40 based on Massy
https://www.masseyratings.com/cbase/11620/ratings

I picked out the top 10 SoS from the West just as a reference as it should help when the Regional rankings come out later in the season.

                                    SoS
1. Trinity TX
2. TX Lutheran

3. Rowan
4. Redlands
5. MA Boston
6. Concordia IL
7. Randolph Macon
8. St Scholastica
9. Webster Univ
10. Earlham
11. Whitworth     3
12. Marietta
13. Franklin IN
14 Babson
15. Methodist
16. Baldwin-Wallace
17. Bethel MN
18. George Fox
19. Denison
20 North Coast AC
21. Case Western
22. Linfield                 5
23. Concordia TX

24. Endicott
25. Pac Lutheran         9
26. UT Tyler
              4
27. Salve Regina
28. Millsaps
29. Hood
30 Chapman
31. Arcadia
32. NE W&M
33. Catholic
34. IL Wesleyan
35. St John's MN
36. Centenary      7
37. Berry
38 Mitchell
39. Millikin
40. Frostburg St

Using the SOS that the NCAA uses it would look much different.  There are other schools that are much higher than the bottom on this list but this is simply as a comparison between Massey and the NCAA rankings.

34. UT-Tyler
38. Chapman
54. Redlands
82. Concordia (TX)
85. Whitworth
96. Trinity
107. Centenary
109. Linfield
153. Pacific Lutheran
167. Texas Lutheran
220. George Fox
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 14, 2018, 07:56:59 PM
Quote from: Mike Lehman on March 12, 2018, 01:45:08 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 08, 2018, 12:52:37 PM
I am a little late to the party but the rankings will figure themselves out over the next few weeks.  Was Cal Lu overrated coming into the season?  Absolutely.  Should they still be getting votes after the performance they have shown?  Absolutely not.  They are having a similar start to what Trinity had in 2017.  Trinity started the year at #7, even after losing a majority of their team, just like Cal Lu.  By the 2nd poll, Trinity was out of the top 25.  By the final poll, Trinity received a total of 0 votes.  Does that make both teams terrible?  Not one bit, they just had massive expectations after winning it all.  I am sure there are plenty of coaches and players in the SCIAC that are happy as a pig in sh*t right now because Cal Lu is really struggling.  I don't blame them one bit simply because they have dominated the conference for about 25 years, save a few years where they were a .500 team.  Regardless of all of that, nobody will ever take away what they did last year.

As far as the rest of the West, it's a total crap shoot.  There have been some pretty good performances and some not good performances.  Here are the SOS numbers for the teams that seem to be on everyone's mind at this point.

31- UT Tyler
44- Chapman
71- Cal Lu
74- Redlands
79- Whitworth
92- Trinity
94- Concordia
126- Linfield
149- Centenary
158- UT Dallas
166- Pomona
174- Texas Lutheran
188- George Fox

The sample-size at this point isn't huge, but these numbers will absolutely matter in the eyes of the voters.  Still a ton of baseball to be played but I think the picture will be much more clear by April 1.
March 12, 2018
ASC - Louisiana College 11-3 Concordia Texas 12-6
NWC - Pacific Lutheran 8-2
SCAC - Trinity Texas 10-1 Texas Lutheran 15-3
SCIAC - Pomona Pitzer 13-4 Redlands 13-4
Thanks Mike.

TLU has beaten everyone they should have including a beautiful road sweep of UTD. The "ugly" on that record is being swept at home by UTT.

I am suspicious of LaCollege's 11-3. Eight of those wins were against NAIA teams of uncertain strength.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on March 18, 2018, 05:52:54 PM
Whitworth is about to get swept by PLU the weekend after playing so well against Fox. As is the story most seasons for the Pirates, consistency is an issue for this team.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 19, 2018, 01:06:49 PM
I was looking at the Massey ratings compared to the D3/NCAA SOS numbers and it really shows a huge difference.  For example, Centenary shows a Massey SOS of 29 but the D3/NCAA SOS shows 202.  Why such a huge difference?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2018, 01:54:23 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 19, 2018, 01:06:49 PM
I was looking at the Massey ratings compared to the D3/NCAA SOS numbers and it really shows a huge difference.  For example, Centenary shows a Massey SOS of 29 but the D3/NCAA SOS shows 202.  Why such a huge difference?
My speculation is that Massey follows all games in its calculations and so games against D2, D1 and NAIA impact the rating.  Massey has always (at least in the last 10-15 years of my following him) "over-validated" the West Region relative to the NCAA.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 19, 2018, 04:06:41 PM
Jack,

Post a link to the NCAA SoS. Ralph I know Massey has traditionally upranked the West early in the season, but it tended to even out once all teams got in 25 games or so. I don't get the Centenary figures as they have only played NCAA Div III teams...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 19, 2018, 04:36:07 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 19, 2018, 04:06:41 PM
Jack,

Post a link to the NCAA SoS. Ralph I know Massey has traditionally upranked the West early in the season, but it tended to even out once all teams got in 25 games or so. I don't get the Centenary figures as they have only played NCAA Div III teams...

http://d3baseball.com/seasons/2018/schedule?tmpl=sos-template

Here is a quick breakdown of the top 50 in the West in the Massey Ratings vs the SOS:



                   Massey Rating                      NCAA SOS
Trinity               1                                                 116
TLU                  4                                                 183
Redlands          11                                                22
PLU                 16                                                164
UT Tyler           22                                                23
Concordia        24                                                 89
Chapman         27                                                 29
Whitworth        30                                                 85
Louisiana Col.   32                                                254
UT Dallas         34                                                 52
Pomona           39                                                 124
Centenary        40                                                 202
Linfield             42                                                163
Cal Lu              48                                                 62
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Purple Heys on March 19, 2018, 05:27:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2018, 01:54:23 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 19, 2018, 01:06:49 PM
I was looking at the Massey ratings compared to the D3/NCAA SOS numbers and it really shows a huge difference.  For example, Centenary shows a Massey SOS of 29 but the D3/NCAA SOS shows 202.  Why such a huge difference?
My speculation is that Massey follows all games in its calculations and so games against D2, D1 and NAIA impact the rating.  Massey has always (at least in the last 10-15 years of my following him) "over-validated" the West Region relative to the NCAA.

This just in:  UW-W preserves their top ten D3baseball.com ranking by electing to not play any games this season.   :D
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 20, 2018, 08:31:02 AM
Not a good week for the west in the D3baseball Top 25:

Through games of Sunday March 18, 2018

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Mass-Boston (12)   9-2   593   1
2   Trinity (Texas) (4)   14-1   578   5
3   UW-Whitewater (4)   0-0   564   2
4   Methodist (3)   20-3   504   8
5   Rowan (1)   11-1   501   11
6   Concordia-Chicago (1)   9-3   492   7
7   Wooster   5-2   437   6
8   Roanoke   13-3   429   9
9   Frostburg State   11-2   374   14
10   Randolph-Macon   12-2   335   17
11   Washington and Jefferson   7-4   311   3
12   Cortland   9-6   299   10
13   Christopher Newport   14-4   295   16
14   Catholic   14-1   248   19
15   Baldwin Wallace   13-3   227   18
16   Shenandoah   9-4   221   13
17   Oswego State   8-5   186   12
18   Case Western Reserve   10-1   153   rv
19   Texas Lutheran   17-4   135   rv
20   TCNJ   8-2   123   rv
21   Marietta   9-2   117   rv
22   Webster   9-3   88   rv
23   North Central (Ill.)   2-4   87   4
24   Redlands   16-6   69   25
25   La Roche   9-3   66   rv
Dropped out: No. 15 Southern Maine, No. 20 Centenary (La.), No. 21 Johns Hopkins, No. 22. St. Scholastica, No. 23. Texas-Tyler, No. 24 George Fox.

Others receiving votes: Southern Maine 66, Spalding 55, Salisbury 51, Johns Hopkins 44, Mount Union 43, Maryville (Tenn.) 42, Millsaps 37, St. Scholastica 31, UW-Oshkosh 27, Centenary (La.) 25, UW-La Crosse 19, New York Univ. 18, Alvernia 16, Cal Lutheran 14, Otterbein 14, Mitchell 13, St. Thomas (Minn.) 13, Concordia (Texas) 12, Babson 12, Saint John's (Minn.) 11, Wartburg 11, George Fox 11, Heidelberg 10, Berry 10, UMass-Dartmouth 10, Piedmont 7, Franklin 7, Endicott 6, Arcadia 5, Bethel (Minn.) 5, Pomona-Pitzer 4, Washington Univ. 3, Earlham 2, Illnois Wesleyan 2, Hood 1, Texas-Tyler 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 20, 2018, 10:34:27 AM
I don't see multiple dominant teams in each conference like there has been in the past, certainly seems like a down year overall. PLU should be in the top 25, and if they keep playing well they will make the list in a week or two. At this point Trinity seems like the only strong West team, the rest... meh. Won't really know about TLU, Centenary, Redlands and Pomona until later in the season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on March 20, 2018, 10:54:05 AM
Quote from: Purple Heys on March 19, 2018, 05:27:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2018, 01:54:23 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 19, 2018, 01:06:49 PM
I was looking at the Massey ratings compared to the D3/NCAA SOS numbers and it really shows a huge difference.  For example, Centenary shows a Massey SOS of 29 but the D3/NCAA SOS shows 202.  Why such a huge difference?
My speculation is that Massey follows all games in its calculations and so games against D2, D1 and NAIA impact the rating.  Massey has always (at least in the last 10-15 years of my following him) "over-validated" the West Region relative to the NCAA.

This just in:  UW-W preserves their top ten D3baseball.com ranking by electing to not play any games this season.   :D

UWW finally drops as Trinity's play gets them into a second ranking.  But on why I post: The SOS for D3baseball.com  uses regionally ranked games only.  Basically it is any game between D-III teams but the rules for what games are regional games is unnecessarily complex.  For instance if a team takes two trips outside their region and play a team that is 200 miles or more, it is possible for that to be a non-regional game.  Financial concerns usually prevent this oddity.

I think Austin last year played a lot of non-D-III opponents, so many that they would have required a waiver if they made the playoffs but their play on the field made this a non issue.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 20, 2018, 11:00:42 AM
Thanks Jim that explains it. So a team like MIT coming in to play Trinity will not help their regional ranking once it comes out?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bmo on March 20, 2018, 08:39:45 PM
My read is that if MIT were to come to Texas and play Trinity (or any other western team) twice (two separate trips) then those second set of games wouldn't count as regional games.  If a game is not counted as a regional game, then it's not part of the SOS calculation and not considered as part of the primary regional ranking criteria.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on March 21, 2018, 02:53:16 PM
California leading the region in winning percentage and strength of schedule.

My top teams
Redlands
Chapman
Trinity(Texas)
Concordia(Texas)
Texas-Tyler
Texas Lutheran
Pomona-Pitzer
California Lutheran
Pacific Lutheran
Whitworth

Acknowledgements
Jonathon Bigley  SR  RF  Sul Ross St   leading hitter (min 18 starts) 1.346 OPS.  Regional average .838  OPS

RBI guys (min 18 starts)
Nathan Patton  SO  3B  Dallas
Tyler Cauley    SO   RF  Texas Lutheran
Sam Swenson  SO   1B  George Fox
All over 1.2 RBIs per game.  Regional average .634 RBIs per game

Aaron Singh  JR   SS  Redlands  118 Total Chances    2 ERRORS  PDG for a shortstop. (NCAA stats 3/20)

ERAs under 2 with min 5 starts 
Ryan Cheatham  SR   Tyler   1.05 ERA
Matt Mogollon   JR   Chapman  1.57 ERA
Dylan Drgac   SR  Texas Lutheran  1.82 ERA
Blaine Parker  FR  East Texas Baptist  1.99 ERA
Regional average 4.47  ERA


Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bmo on March 21, 2018, 09:07:42 PM
Thanks Pirat.  Good summary.

I do think you might have missed Nittoli from Trinity, with a .68 ERA.  Also, Malinovsky from TLU deserves some acknowledgement, even though he doesn't meet the 5 start threshold.  He has logged 40 innings so far, which is more than most with 5 starts.

Not sure I would feel good about including a sub 500 as a top team, but I certainly understand loyalty.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on March 21, 2018, 09:22:32 PM
Quote from: Pirat on March 21, 2018, 02:53:16 PM
California leading the region in winning percentage and strength of schedule.

My top teams
Redlands
Chapman
Trinity(Texas)
Concordia(Texas)
Texas-Tyler
Texas Lutheran
Pomona-Pitzer
California Lutheran
Pacific Lutheran
Whitworth

Acknowledgements
Jonathon Bigley  SR  RF  Sul Ross St   leading hitter (min 18 starts) 1.346 OPS.  Regional average .838  OPS

RBI guys (min 18 starts)
Nathan Patton  SO  3B  Dallas
Tyler Cauley    SO   RF  Texas Lutheran
Sam Swenson  SO   1B  George Fox
All over 1.2 RBIs per game.  Regional average .634 RBIs per game

Aaron Singh  JR   SS  Redlands  118 Total Chances    2 ERRORS  PDG for a shortstop. (NCAA stats 3/20)

ERAs under 2 with min 5 starts 
Ryan Cheatham  SR   Tyler   1.05 ERA
Matt Mogollon   JR   Chapman  1.57 ERA
Dylan Drgac   SR  Texas Lutheran  1.82 ERA
Blaine Parker  FR  East Texas Baptist  1.99 ERA
Regional average 4.47  ERA

I certainly believe Chapman and Cal Lu are talented, and they've played well in non-con, but both are sitting at 3-6 in SCIAC play (Chapman having lost all three series so far). This weekend's upcoming CLU-PP series should be telling, and Chapman has four games against some good non-con opponents before they meet CLU themselves.

Interesting snap shot of some impressive individual years around the region, though. Crazy that we're about halfway through already for most west region teams. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mike Lehman on March 21, 2018, 10:20:30 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on March 21, 2018, 09:22:32 PM
Quote from: Pirat on March 21, 2018, 02:53:16 PM
California leading the region in winning percentage and strength of schedule.

My top teams
Redlands
Chapman
Trinity(Texas)
Concordia(Texas)
Texas-Tyler
Texas Lutheran
Pomona-Pitzer
California Lutheran
Pacific Lutheran
Whitworth

Acknowledgements
Jonathon Bigley  SR  RF  Sul Ross St   leading hitter (min 18 starts) 1.346 OPS.  Regional average .838  OPS

RBI guys (min 18 starts)
Nathan Patton  SO  3B  Dallas
Tyler Cauley    SO   RF  Texas Lutheran
Sam Swenson  SO   1B  George Fox
All over 1.2 RBIs per game.  Regional average .634 RBIs per game

Aaron Singh  JR   SS  Redlands  118 Total Chances    2 ERRORS  PDG for a shortstop. (NCAA stats 3/20)

ERAs under 2 with min 5 starts 
Ryan Cheatham  SR   Tyler   1.05 ERA
Matt Mogollon   JR   Chapman  1.57 ERA
Dylan Drgac   SR  Texas Lutheran  1.82 ERA
Blaine Parker  FR  East Texas Baptist  1.99 ERA
Regional average 4.47  ERA

I certainly believe Chapman and Cal Lu are talented, and they've played well in non-con, but both are sitting at 3-6 in SCIAC play (Chapman having lost all three series so far). This weekend's upcoming CLU-PP series should be telling, and Chapman has four games against some good non-con opponents before they meet CLU themselves.

Interesting snap shot of some impressive individual years around the region, though. Crazy that we're about halfway through already for most west region teams.
MARCH 21, 2018
TOP TEAMS
ASC - Concordia 14-7
NWC - Pacific Lutheran 13-8
SCAC - Trinity Texas 14-1 Texas Lutheran 17-4
SCIAC - Redlands 18-6 Pomona-Pitzer 13-6

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on March 21, 2018, 10:31:07 PM
Quote from: Bmo on March 21, 2018, 09:07:42 PM
Thanks Pirat.  Good summary.

I do think you might have missed Nittoli from Trinity, with a .68 ERA.  Also, Malinovsky from TLU deserves some acknowledgement, even though he doesn't meet the 5 start threshold.  He has logged 40 innings so far, which is more than most with 5 starts.

Not sure I would feel good about including a sub 500 as a top team, but I certainly understand loyalty.

All of this was based on NCAA information gathered on Monday. Next weeks gathering could produce different results depending on how the weekend goes especially with regards to the sub .500 team.  Nittoli wasn't on the list because Trinity is over a week behind in posting their stats to the NCAA site. Agreed on Malinovsky, 40 innings is significant but I had to draw an arbitrary line somewhere. Thanks for the feedback
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on March 21, 2018, 10:45:43 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on March 21, 2018, 09:22:32 PM
Quote from: Pirat on March 21, 2018, 02:53:16 PM
California leading the region in winning percentage and strength of schedule.

My top teams
Redlands
Chapman
Trinity(Texas)
Concordia(Texas)
Texas-Tyler
Texas Lutheran
Pomona-Pitzer
California Lutheran
Pacific Lutheran
Whitworth

Acknowledgements
Jonathon Bigley  SR  RF  Sul Ross St   leading hitter (min 18 starts) 1.346 OPS.  Regional average .838  OPS

RBI guys (min 18 starts)
Nathan Patton  SO  3B  Dallas
Tyler Cauley    SO   RF  Texas Lutheran
Sam Swenson  SO   1B  George Fox
All over 1.2 RBIs per game.  Regional average .634 RBIs per game

Aaron Singh  JR   SS  Redlands  118 Total Chances    2 ERRORS  PDG for a shortstop. (NCAA stats 3/20)

ERAs under 2 with min 5 starts 
Ryan Cheatham  SR   Tyler   1.05 ERA
Matt Mogollon   JR   Chapman  1.57 ERA
Dylan Drgac   SR  Texas Lutheran  1.82 ERA
Blaine Parker  FR  East Texas Baptist  1.99 ERA
Regional average 4.47  ERA

I certainly believe Chapman and Cal Lu are talented, and they've played well in non-con, but both are sitting at 3-6 in SCIAC play (Chapman having lost all three series so far). This weekend's upcoming CLU-PP series should be telling, and Chapman has four games against some good non-con opponents before they meet CLU themselves.

Interesting snap shot of some impressive individual years around the region, though. Crazy that we're about halfway through already for most west region teams.
Teddy, I was trying to take a more entire approach to the region rather than by individual conferences.  I would agree that right now the SCIAC belongs to Redlands.  This may say more about how "strong and balacnced" things are in the SCIAC.  Thanks for your insight.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 22, 2018, 11:17:52 AM
Any news on West Regional location?

As far as the West region this year being "strong and balanced". I would agree with the balanced aspect, not having seen many of the teams play it is hard to asses the strong part, but it seems to me there is a lacking of really dominant teams like there were in the past from Linfield, Chapman, CLU, etc... with maybe the exception for Trinity this year. I certainly would not have CLU on my top teams in the West list, they are having a down year, which is natural loosing so many Sr's, much like Trinity was last year. The only conference I see having a chance of getting two teams in the West is the SCAC if for some reason Trinity does not win it. (which is a real possibility given the TLU and Centenary teams)

It will be interesting to see if PLU and Redlands can solidify their leads in their conferences the next couple of weeks. The SCAC really won't be decided until the end due to TLU/Centenary/Trinity match ups.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bmo on March 22, 2018, 11:25:46 AM
Thanks Pirat,

I certainly understand. "The report's only as good as the data!"

I am curious where you are pulling your data from as there are so many NCAA reporting dashboards, some working, some not.  I hadn't looked in a while and stumbled upon a new one, to me, (I assume you are using, but if not, may be helpful for your weekly summary), see link.

https://stats.ncaa.org/rankings?sport_code=MBA&division=3

The rankings summary tab lets you sort by western region or create a set of custom "West Region Teams to Beat".  It also seems to respect the 2.5 at bats per/game, inning per game qualification rules.  It doesn't have OPS, which I assume you are compiling yourself unless you are pulling your data from somewhere I haven't run across yet..

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2018, 05:04:12 PM
Friends, I am doing some background work for Jim Dixon.

On March 20, Finlandia played Alma in a DH at Klenk Park, Alma MI before an attendance of 85.

The weather was 33 degrees with 18 MPH wind!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bmo on March 23, 2018, 07:43:44 PM
Would it be correct to assume this background work has something to do with the poll question regarding fall baseball?

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 23, 2018, 07:56:07 PM
Nice at least there was a baseball game to watch!

Coldest game I attended was at Concordia TX, in February 2012. It was in the mid-low 30's with 20ish wind. All of the non local fans were going back to their hotels to get their bed comforters, and a few enterprising cowboys went and got butane warmers from their trucks. (plus some other warming refreshments, its Texas you know)

I believe this was the year Concordia had a closer who was a UT drop down who threw in the 90's and no one from Trinity wanted to face him at the end of the game since they could not feel their hands.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2018, 09:01:11 PM
Quote from: Bmo on March 23, 2018, 07:43:44 PM
Would it be correct to assume this background work has something to do with the poll question regarding fall baseball?
No...

just some reconciling schedules and records...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on March 23, 2018, 11:22:41 PM
Quote from: Bmo on March 22, 2018, 11:25:46 AM
Thanks Pirat,

I certainly understand. "The report's only as good as the data!"

I am curious where you are pulling your data from as there are so many NCAA reporting dashboards, some working, some not.  I hadn't looked in a while and stumbled upon a new one, to me, (I assume you are using, but if not, may be helpful for your weekly summary), see link.

https://stats.ncaa.org/rankings?sport_code=MBA&division=3



The rankings summary tab lets you sort by western region or create a set of custom "West Region Teams to Beat".  It also seems to respect the 2.5 at bats per/game, inning per game qualification rules.  It doesn't have OPS, which I assume you are compiling yourself unless you are pulling your data from somewhere I haven't run across yet..

I am pulling all of my data from the individual team stat sites on the NCAA website.  For the most part, individual player stats for hitting, pitching and fielding are up to date.  There are a few of them that are running a little behind. I download all of those stats plus team stats onto a spreadsheet which makes it fairly easy to come up with odd ball stats like OPS.  I also include team winning percentage, SOS, and run differential which makes it fairly easy to compare team across the region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bmo on March 24, 2018, 08:25:17 AM
That's what i thought you might be having to do, but had hoped it was already available somewhere.  It's too bad the NCAA analytics platform is so limited currently. 

On the site i linked above there were some interesting Misc Reports; primarily "Toughest Schedule" and "Non Conference".  "Toughest Schedule" shows current, future, and total opponent Win Percentage, which might answer some previous questions on this site as to why a team's NCAA SOS is so low. 

Someone with some pull with the NCAA Stats folks might be able to request some additional misc reports.  Region vs Region and Conference vs Conference would be interesting.

With a more robust analytics platform, you could filter region vs region by top/middle/bottom tier win percentage, or even by matchups like Ace vs Ace, SP2 vs SP3, etc. Actually trending would be nice too. 

Maybe one day..
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on March 24, 2018, 07:22:10 PM
Quote from: Bmo on March 23, 2018, 07:43:44 PM
Would it be correct to assume this background work has something to do with the poll question regarding fall baseball?

Nope nothing like that.  One check on making sure D3baseball.com has all the scores on the site.  As it has been said, data is only as good as the source and we stive to be a better reporting service on this end than the NCAA.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 24, 2018, 09:30:38 PM
Trinity puts 43 runs on the board at Austin today, winning 26-4 and 17-9.   According to the TU game summary (http://trinitytigers.com/sports/bsb/2017-18/releases/180324_bb_ac), the 26 runs in game 1 is the most scored by the team in a single game during the SCAC era (since 1992). 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on March 25, 2018, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: Bmo on March 24, 2018, 08:25:17 AM
That's what i thought you might be having to do, but had hoped it was already available somewhere.  It's too bad the NCAA analytics platform is so limited currently. 

On the site i linked above there were some interesting Misc Reports; primarily "Toughest Schedule" and "Non Conference".  "Toughest Schedule" shows current, future, and total opponent Win Percentage, which might answer some previous questions on this site as to why a team's NCAA SOS is so low. 

Someone with some pull with the NCAA Stats folks might be able to request some additional misc reports.  Region vs Region and Conference vs Conference would be interesting.

With a more robust analytics platform, you could filter region vs region by top/middle/bottom tier win percentage, or even by matchups like Ace vs Ace, SP2 vs SP3, etc. Actually trending would be nice too. 

Maybe one day..
Agreed the NCAA stat presentation isn't what I would like it to be. I do use the "Misc. Reports" and have found that to be helpful.  As you say "Maybe one day.."  but I kinda doubt it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on March 27, 2018, 01:32:22 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 23, 2018, 07:56:07 PM
Nice at least there was a baseball game to watch!

Coldest game I attended was at Concordia TX, in February 2012. It was in the mid-low 30's with 20ish wind. All of the non local fans were going back to their hotels to get their bed comforters, and a few enterprising cowboys went and got butane warmers from their trucks. (plus some other warming refreshments, its Texas you know)

I believe this was the year Concordia had a closer who was a UT drop down who threw in the 90's and no one from Trinity wanted to face him at the end of the game since they could not feel their hands.

I believe that was Ullmann?  Saw him, he did throw hard.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 27, 2018, 07:24:10 PM
#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (16)   17-1   604   2
2   UW-Whitewater (4)   5-0   581   3
3   Rowan (2)   11-1   561   5
4   Mass-Boston   10-3   528   1
5   Concordia-Chicago (2)   12-3   498   6
6   Roanoke (1)   16-3   477   8
7   Wooster   9-3   443   7
8   Methodist   20-5   394   4
9   Christopher Newport   18-4   386   13
10   Randolph-Macon   13-3   367   10
11   Frostburg State   12-3   313   9
12   Texas Lutheran   20-4   287   19
13   Case Western Reserve   13-2   275   18
14   Cortland   11-6   262   12
15   Redlands   21-6   236   24
16   Catholic   15-3   211   14
17   TCNJ   8-2   196   20
18   Baldwin Wallace   14-4   181   15
19   Marietta   11-4   138   21
20   Maryville (Tenn.)   22-5   123   rv
21   Spalding   14-3   121   rv
22   La Roche   11-4   106   25
23   Oswego State   8-5   90   17
24   Shenandoah   10-6   86   16
25   UW-Oshkosh   10-2   82   rv
Dropped out: No. 11 Washington and Jefferson, No. 22 Webster, No. 23 North Central (Ill.).

Others receiving votes: Washington and Jefferson 58, Berry 47, Alvernia 46, Bethel (Minn.) 45, Southern Maine 44, Millsaps 44, Endicott 33, New York Univ. 29, Heidelberg 26, Centenary (La.) 22, Wabash 21, Webster 20, Saint John's (Minn.) 18, Cal Lutheran 13, Mount Union 13, Mitchell 12, St. Scholastica 11, Augustana (Ill.) 10, Johns Hopkins 10, Piedmont 9, Wartburg 9, Chapman 9, Washington College 8, Arcadia 4, Texas-Tyler 4, Pacific Lutheran 4, Concordia (Texas) 4, Franklin 4, Salisbury 3, New England College 2, Washington (Mo.) 2, Adrian 1, Aurora 1, Hood 1, Keystone 1, Wheaton (Mass.) 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mike Lehman on March 27, 2018, 11:56:22 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on March 27, 2018, 07:24:10 PM
#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (16)   17-1   604   2
2   UW-Whitewater (4)   5-0   581   3
3   Rowan (2)   11-1   561   5
4   Mass-Boston   10-3   528   1
5   Concordia-Chicago (2)   12-3   498   6
6   Roanoke (1)   16-3   477   8
7   Wooster   9-3   443   7
8   Methodist   20-5   394   4
9   Christopher Newport   18-4   386   13
10   Randolph-Macon   13-3   367   10
11   Frostburg State   12-3   313   9
12   Texas Lutheran   20-4   287   19
13   Case Western Reserve   13-2   275   18
14   Cortland   11-6   262   12
15   Redlands   21-6   236   24
16   Catholic   15-3   211   14
17   TCNJ   8-2   196   20
18   Baldwin Wallace   14-4   181   15
19   Marietta   11-4   138   21
20   Maryville (Tenn.)   22-5   123   rv
21   Spalding   14-3   121   rv
22   La Roche   11-4   106   25
23   Oswego State   8-5   90   17
24   Shenandoah   10-6   86   16
25   UW-Oshkosh   10-2   82   rv
Dropped out: No. 11 Washington and Jefferson, No. 22 Webster, No. 23 North Central (Ill.).

Others receiving votes: Washington and Jefferson 58, Berry 47, Alvernia 46, Bethel (Minn.) 45, Southern Maine 44, Millsaps 44, Endicott 33, New York Univ. 29, Heidelberg 26, Centenary (La.) 22, Wabash 21, Webster 20, Saint John's (Minn.) 18, Cal Lutheran 13, Mount Union 13, Mitchell 12, St. Scholastica 11, Augustana (Ill.) 10, Johns Hopkins 10, Piedmont 9, Wartburg 9, Chapman 9, Washington College 8, Arcadia 4, Texas-Tyler 4, Pacific Lutheran 4, Concordia (Texas) 4, Franklin 4, Salisbury 3, New England College 2, Washington (Mo.) 2, Adrian 1, Aurora 1, Hood 1, Keystone 1, Wheaton (Mass.) 1.
My Top Teams March 27, 2018
Trinity Texas 17-1
Texas Lutheran 20-4
Redlands 21-6
Chapman 17-7
Centenary LA 14-7
Pacific Lutheran 17-8
Concordia Texas 16-8
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 28, 2018, 12:21:21 PM
Rankings comparison for the week.

                   

                              D3               Massey                  ABCA
Trinity                        1                    1                      2
Texas Lutheran           12                  3                      9
Redlands                    15                  8                     10
Centenary                  35                  25                    NR
Cal Lu                        39                  28                   41
Chapman                   47                  13                   36
UT Tyler                     50                  14                   55
Pacific Lutheran          51                  10                   33
Concordia TX              52                 18                   30 


 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on March 28, 2018, 04:37:11 PM
My regional top 10
Redlands
Trinity
Chapman
Tyler
Concordia
Cal Lutheran
Texas Lutheran
Pacific Lutheran
Pomona
UT Dallas

SCIAC  overall 8 of 9 teams over .500.  Playing at well over.600 out of conference schedule tied for 2nd in the country while playing the 10th toughest schedule in the country.

Cal Lu/Chapman, Trinity/TLU, Tyler/Centenary all coming up
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 28, 2018, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: Pirat on March 28, 2018, 04:37:11 PM
My regional top 10
Redlands
Trinity
Chapman
Tyler
Concordia
Cal Lutheran
Texas Lutheran
Pacific Lutheran
Pomona
UT Dallas

SCIAC  overall 8 of 9 teams over .500.  Playing at well over.600 out of conference schedule tied for 2nd in the country while playing the 10th toughest schedule in the country.

Cal Lu/Chapman, Trinity/TLU, Tyler/Centenary all coming up
Towards the end of April we can check the SOS values to see if that .600 is really worth what it says mathematically!

I really hope so, but my admitted bias is that the West Region is very strong overall and we beat ourselves up with intra-region play!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bmo on March 29, 2018, 11:46:45 AM
Looks like the Trinity - TLU series has been relocated to Seguin due to soggy field conditions in San Antonio.  Trinity will have only 12 true scheduled home games for the season with only 5 home games left on the 2018 schedule.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mike Lehman on March 29, 2018, 04:25:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 28, 2018, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: Pirat on March 28, 2018, 04:37:11 PM
My regional top 10
Redlands
Trinity
Chapman
Tyler
Concordia
Cal Lutheran
Texas Lutheran
Pacific Lutheran
Pomona
UT Dallas

SCIAC  overall 8 of 9 teams over .500.  Playing at well over.600 out of conference schedule tied for 2nd in the country while playing the 10th toughest schedule in the country.

Cal Lu/Chapman, Trinity/TLU, Tyler/Centenary all coming up
Towards the end of April we can check the SOS values to see if that .600 is really worth what it says mathematically!

I really hope so, but my admitted bias is that the West Region is very strong overall and we beat ourselves up with intra-region play!

ASC
Concordia Texas 16-8

NWC
Pacfic Lutheran 17-8

SCAC
Trinity Texas 17-1
Texas Lutheran 20-4

SCIAC
Redlands 22-7
Chapman 18-7
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 29, 2018, 11:06:31 PM
Very good game between TLU and Trinity with Trinity coming out on top 5-4.  Home plate ump was suspect.

Tyler absolutely smoked Centenary 11-0.  Centenary went with a kid that had only thrown 9 innings so far this year.  No clue why they would do that as they really cannot afford many more losses.  They are not in good shape for an at-large bid if they don't win the SCAC, which I do not see happening.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 30, 2018, 10:10:28 AM
Trinity fortunate to come away with the win after being held to seven hits yesterday.  Today they likely face TLU's #1 Nathan Malinovsky, he of the microscopic 0.39 ERA (5-1, .165 OBA, 2 ER in 46 IP). 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 30, 2018, 07:31:14 PM
Malinovsky appears to be back.  Here is his line against Trinity in the 8-4 win for TLU.
8.0IP  7H 4R 2ER 6BB 12K 0HR  37 batters 136 pitches 81 strikes
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on March 31, 2018, 11:57:10 AM
I only caught a couple of innings but the Trinity/TLU series looked very competitive with Trinity taking 2 of 3, but frankly could have easily gone the other way looking at the box scores.
Solid showing by TLU which should help their regional
Line for the three combined games: R/ER/H/E
Trinity: 14/10/25/5
TLU:     15/10/31/4

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 02, 2018, 10:37:15 AM
With the weather-related move to Seguin for last weekend's games, Trinity finds themselves in the middle of a stretch of 15 away games.  They come to Southwestern for a non-conference game on Wednesday, then three this weekend at Hardin-Simmons, followed next Tuesday at CTX.   They close with a weekend at Schreiner and yet another non-conference tilt at Southwestern before returning home at last on the 21st with a set against UDallas.   It would have been 16 straight away had not last Tuesday's game at UMHB been rained out. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 03, 2018, 09:51:50 PM
#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (18)   19-2   615   1
2   Rowan (3)   15-2   579   3
3   UW-Whitewater (2)   8-2   538   2
4   Roanoke (1)   19-3   530   6
5   Concordia-Chicago (1)   14-4   524   5
6   Wooster   11-3   465   7
7   Christopher Newport   22-4   456   9
8   Randolph-Macon   16-3-1   431   10
9   Mass-Boston   13-5   423   4
10   Cortland   16-6   344   14
11   Methodist   22-6   317   8
12   Texas Lutheran   21-6   308   12
13   Case Western Reserve   16-3   304   13
14   TCNJ   12-2   280   17
15   Redlands   24-7   254   15
16   Marietta   12-4   195   19
17   Maryville (Tenn.)   26-5   170   20
18   Spalding   17-3   160   21
19   La Roche   13-4   156   22
20   UW-Oshkosh   13-2   134   25
21   Frostburg State   13-6   126   11
22   Shenandoah   14-6   108   24
23   Oswego State   11-5   102   23
24   Catholic   16-5   95   16
25   Baldwin Wallace   15-6   65   18
Dropped out: none.

Others receiving votes: Mount Union 46, Berry 45, Saint John's (Minn.) 36, Franklin 33, Keystone 31, Alvernia 21, Salisbury 20, Mitchell 17, Heidelberg 17, Concordia (Texas) 16, Wabash 15, Augustana (Ill.) 14, Southern Maine 14, UW-La Crosse 14, New England College 12, Chapman 11, Washington & Jefferson 10, Centenary (La.) 9, Wartburg 9, Western New England 9, North Central (Ill.) 9, Rhodes 7, La Verne 6, Piedmont 5, Webster 5, Adrian 4, Bethel (Minn.) 3, Washington (Mo.) 3, Aurora 2, Endicott 2, New York Univ. 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 03, 2018, 11:32:59 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 03, 2018, 09:51:50 PM
#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (18)   19-2   615   1
2   Rowan (3)   15-2   579   3
3   UW-Whitewater (2)   8-2   538   2
4   Roanoke (1)   19-3   530   6
5   Concordia-Chicago (1)   14-4   524   5
6   Wooster   11-3   465   7
7   Christopher Newport   22-4   456   9
8   Randolph-Macon   16-3-1   431   10
9   Mass-Boston   13-5   423   4
10   Cortland   16-6   344   14
11   Methodist   22-6   317   8
12   Texas Lutheran   21-6   308   12
13   Case Western Reserve   16-3   304   13
14   TCNJ   12-2   280   17
15   Redlands   24-7   254   15
16   Marietta   12-4   195   19
17   Maryville (Tenn.)   26-5   170   20
18   Spalding   17-3   160   21
19   La Roche   13-4   156   22
20   UW-Oshkosh   13-2   134   25
21   Frostburg State   13-6   126   11
22   Shenandoah   14-6   108   24
23   Oswego State   11-5   102   23
24   Catholic   16-5   95   16
25   Baldwin Wallace   15-6   65   18
Dropped out: none.

Others receiving votes: Mount Union 46, Berry 45, Saint John's (Minn.) 36, Franklin 33, Keystone 31, Alvernia 21, Salisbury 20, Mitchell 17, Heidelberg 17, Concordia (Texas) 16, Wabash 15, Augustana (Ill.) 14, Southern Maine 14, UW-La Crosse 14, New England College 12, Chapman 11, Washington & Jefferson 10, Centenary (La.) 9, Wartburg 9, Western New England 9, North Central (Ill.) 9, Rhodes 7, La Verne 6, Piedmont 5, Webster 5, Adrian 4, Bethel (Minn.) 3, Washington (Mo.) 3, Aurora 2, Endicott 2, New York Univ. 1.

Personal opinion here....TLU is ranked too low, Chapman is too low, not sure about Centenary at all, another SCIAC school breaks in.  Trinity is right where they should be.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Pirat on April 04, 2018, 07:17:39 PM
My top 10
Trinity
Redlands
Chapman
Tyler
Concordia
Cal Lutheran
Texas Lutheran
Whittier
UT Dallas
La Verne

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
Top hitters  Minimum 100 At Bats
Jacob Bockelie  SR  RF  Pacific Lutheran  1.232 OPS
Jonathon Bigley  SR  RF+  Sul Ross  1.221 OPS
Regional average for qualifying players  .882

Pitchers
All over 45 innings pitched and all under 2.00 ERA
Nathan Malinovsy  JR  Texas Lutheran  .67 ERA  5.40 innings/appearance
Kaleb Kirk   SR Centenary  1.55 ERA  6.59 innings/appearance
Adam Stead  SR  Redlands  1.67 ERA   6.75 innings/appearance
Ryan Cheatham    SR  Tyler  1.73 ERA  5.78 innings/appearance
Dylan Drgac  SR  Texas Lutheran  1.92 ERA  6.52 innings/appearance
Matt Mogollon  JR  Chapman  1.96 ERA  6.88 innings/appearance
Simon Sedillo  FR  Tyler  1.99 ERA  6.15 inning/appearance
Regional average ERA for qualifying pitchers 3.79

For now, my top overall regional player.  Aaron Singh,  JR,  Redlands, Shortstop.
Started 31 games leading the region in assists, 3 errors, .980 fielding percentage.  Current OPS is 1.102 6th in the region.  Stolen 16 bases 7th in the region
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 04, 2018, 10:55:52 PM
TLU loses to a very mediocre (now 9-16) UMHB tonight, 6-5.   Trailing 5-1, the Cru scored five runs in the bottom of the eighth and survived a leadoff error in the top of the ninth in the win.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 07, 2018, 07:54:23 AM
Trinity blew a 12-6 lead in the bottom of the ninth, putting a freshman on the mound who hadn't seen action all season.   The kid uncorked three wild pitches, couldn't get anyone out, and ended up being responsible for 5 of the 6 runs Hardin-Simmons scored to tie up the game.  Trinity eventually managed a 14-12 win in *16* innings.   Usual starter James Nittoli (now 5-1) got the win after entering in the bottom of the twelfth and throwing 3 2/3 scoreless innings.   Both teams had plenty of chances to win before that but couldn't get a two-out hit

It'll be interesting to see who's left to pitch for both sides today.   HSU ended up with their left fielder on the mound as the teams combined to use 11 pitchers. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mike Lehman on April 07, 2018, 10:28:02 PM
TOP TEAMS IN THE WEST April 7,2018

ASC
Concordia Texas 19-8

NWC
Pacific Lutheran 18-11

SCAC
Trinity Texas 23-2
Texas Lutheran 23-7
Centenary 18-9   

SCIAC
Redlands 25-9
Chapman 23-8
Pomona 20-9
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Whatagame on April 08, 2018, 07:49:02 PM
The NWC was down last year, but is really looking weak this season.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 09, 2018, 01:11:18 PM
Trinity visits Concordia (TX) on Tuesday, and ASC-leading Sul Ross visits Thu/Fri for a pair.   The latter were announced last week (http://www.srlobos.com/news/2018/4/4/baseball-to-face-no-1-trinity-april-12-and-13.aspx).   

Edit: squeaked by CTX 3-2 in 11 innings.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 15, 2018, 07:21:07 PM
Trinity lost to 12-23 Schreiner 3-2 in 10 innings today and are now tied with Centenary for the SCAC lead with TLU 2 games back.  The SCAC regular-season title will likely be on the line when the two leaders face off in Shreveport in two weeks. 

Tomorrow's non-conference tilt in Georgetown will mark the 10th game in 11 days for the Tigers with only two of those coming at home.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on April 16, 2018, 12:22:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 15, 2018, 07:21:07 PM
Trinity lost to 12-23 Schreiner 3-2 in 10 innings today and are now tied with Centenary for the SCAC lead with TLU 2 games back.  The SCAC regular-season title will likely be on the line when the two leaders face off in Shreveport in two weeks. 

Tomorrow's non-conference tilt in Georgetown will mark the 10th game in 11 days for the Tigers with only two of those coming at home.

Trinity should have the edge but you never know what the road will bring.  Either way, both can make a case for a Pool C bid if either fails in the SCAC tournament.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 16, 2018, 12:52:22 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 16, 2018, 12:22:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 15, 2018, 07:21:07 PM
Trinity lost to 12-23 Schreiner 3-2 in 10 innings today and are now tied with Centenary for the SCAC lead with TLU 2 games back.  The SCAC regular-season title will likely be on the line when the two leaders face off in Shreveport in two weeks. 

Tomorrow's non-conference tilt in Georgetown will mark the 10th game in 11 days for the Tigers with only two of those coming at home.

Trinity should have the edge but you never know what the road will bring.  Either way, both can make a case for a Pool C bid if either fails in the SCAC tournament.

Jim-

Do you feel Centenary has the resume to be considered for a Pool C?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 16, 2018, 09:41:20 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 16, 2018, 12:52:22 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 16, 2018, 12:22:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 15, 2018, 07:21:07 PM
Trinity lost to 12-23 Schreiner 3-2 in 10 innings today and are now tied with Centenary for the SCAC lead with TLU 2 games back.  The SCAC regular-season title will likely be on the line when the two leaders face off in Shreveport in two weeks. 

Tomorrow's non-conference tilt in Georgetown will mark the 10th game in 11 days for the Tigers with only two of those coming at home.

Trinity should have the edge but you never know what the road will bring.  Either way, both can make a case for a Pool C bid if either fails in the SCAC tournament.

Jim-

Do you feel Centenary has the resume to be considered for a Pool C?
...awaiting Jim's opinion...
They are 19-12 with 7 games remaining, ETBU, Austin College (3), Trinity (3).
They have a split with Redlands and went 1-2 against TLU.

I don't see any other regionally ranked teams on their schedule.

They may not finish above .700.

Right now, who are 6 regionally ranked teams from the West?

TU , TLU, Redlands, CTX, PacLu...

LaVerne?  Cent? UTD?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 16, 2018, 10:43:07 PM
Trinity drops their second straight, 8-7, at Southwestern.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 16, 2018, 11:52:02 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 16, 2018, 09:41:20 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 16, 2018, 12:52:22 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 16, 2018, 12:22:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 15, 2018, 07:21:07 PM
Trinity lost to 12-23 Schreiner 3-2 in 10 innings today and are now tied with Centenary for the SCAC lead with TLU 2 games back.  The SCAC regular-season title will likely be on the line when the two leaders face off in Shreveport in two weeks. 

Tomorrow's non-conference tilt in Georgetown will mark the 10th game in 11 days for the Tigers with only two of those coming at home.

Trinity should have the edge but you never know what the road will bring.  Either way, both can make a case for a Pool C bid if either fails in the SCAC tournament.

Jim-

Do you feel Centenary has the resume to be considered for a Pool C?
...awaiting Jim's opinion...
They are 19-12 with 7 games remaining, ETBU, Austin College (3), Trinity (3).
They have a split with Redlands and went 1-2 against TLU.

I don't see any other regionally ranked teams on their schedule.

They may not finish above .700.

Right now, who are 6 regionally ranked teams from the West?

TU , TLU, Redlands, CTX, PacLu...

LaVerne?  Cent? UTD?

I am going with Trinity, Redlands, Chapman, Tyler, Concordia, and TLU.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 17, 2018, 01:20:09 PM
Big series this weekend in Tyler as they host CTX for 3 games. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mike Lehman on April 17, 2018, 07:39:13 PM
APRIL 17,2018

ASC
Concordia - Texas 23-11

NWC
Pacific Lutheran 22-14
Linfield 22-14

SCAC
Trinity Texas 28-4

SCIAC
Chapman 26-8
Redlands 28-9
Laverne 23-11

West should get 6 bids in 2018.. 8-)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2018, 09:36:19 PM
Quote from: Mike Lehman on April 17, 2018, 07:39:13 PM
APRIL 17,2018

ASC
Concordia - Texas 23-11

NWC
Pacific Lutheran 22-14
Linfield 22-14

SCAC
Trinity Texas 28-4

SCIAC
Chapman 26-8
Redlands 28-9
Laverne 23-11

West should get 6 bids in 2018.. 8-)
I am optimistic, but I need to drill down on the non-conference head-to-heads for some of the Pool C's.

UT-Tyler's 3-game sweep of LaVerne looks big.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 17, 2018, 10:46:48 PM
Quote from: Mike Lehman on April 17, 2018, 07:39:13 PM
APRIL 17,2018

ASC
Concordia - Texas 23-11

NWC
Pacific Lutheran 22-14
Linfield 22-14

SCAC
Trinity Texas 28-4

SCIAC
Chapman 26-8
Redlands 28-9
Laverne 23-11

West should get 6 bids in 2018.. 8-)

The NWC is a 1-bid league.
The SCIAC could get 2 in (Redlands & Chapman) but thats really only if they both continue winning and play each other for the tourney championship.  If anyone other than those 2 win the SCIC tourney, it might be cutting it close.
The SCAC has Trinity as a shoe-in, and I think the only way Centenary gets in is by winning the tourney.
The ASC could get 2 in and I think the only 2 real options are Concordia and Tyler.  If anyone other than those 2 wins the tourney title, I think the winner of their 3 game set has the best shot as long as they don't go 0-2 in the tourney.

I think there will only be 5 and they will fly someone in like they did few years ago.  Putting the Regional in Spokane shows that the NCAA will pay for flights and there is really no other choice.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2018, 11:15:01 PM
In my dreams, we would get 2 teams from the NWC.

It is heresy to say this, but it would save a trip to award a Pool C to a team that comes from a strong conference in a strong region.

I think that the won-loss records across the entire region are reflective of how competitive the teams are, even into the bottom thirds of the four conferences.  Schreiner and Southwestern beat Trinity. CMS beat Redlands. UMHB beat TLU. McMurry beat CTX. Louisiana College beat UT Tyler twice.  Puget Sound beat Pac Lu. Puget Sound beat Linfield. Lewis and Clark beat Linfield twice.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mike Lehman on April 18, 2018, 01:19:33 AM
2018 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, Week 8
Through games of Sunday April 15, 2018

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (16)   28-3   612   1
2   Wooster (4)   20-3   574   3
3   UW-Whitewater (3)   15-3   571   2
4   Randolph-Macon   24-3-1   534   6
5   Mass-Boston   22-5   495   8
6   Cortland (1)   25-6   480   10
7   Rowan   22-5   474   7
8   Concordia-Chicago   17-5   462   4
9   Christopher Newport   27-6   426   5
10   Case Western Reserve   23-4   361   11
11   Shenandoah   24-6   312   18
12   TCNJ   19-5   310   17
13   Roanoke   22-7   306   9
14   Texas Lutheran   26-8   276   13
15   Marietta   18-6   230   14
16   UW-Oshkosh   14-4   226   16
17   Methodist   27-9   199   12
18   Redlands   28-9   176   20
19   Salisbury   23-7   167   24
20   Spalding   22-5   160   15
21   La Roche   18-5-1   106   21
22   Franklin   22-2   82   rv
23   Southern Maine   16-6   76   rv
24   Oswego State   18-8   71   19
25   Adrian   20-5   46   rv
Others receiving votes: Keystone 41, Chapman 31, Western New England 24, Saint John's (Minn.) 24, Piedmont 21, UW-Stevens Point 21, Babson 19, Alvernia 18, Washington & Jefferson 17, Carthage 16, Berry 15, La Verne 13, Johns Hopkins 12, Endicott 12, Baldwin Wallace 11, Arcadia 10, Catholic 10, Frostburg State 9, St. Scholastica 8, Maryville (Tenn.) 8, Heidelberg 7, Bethel (Minn.) 7, North Central (Ill.) 7, Otterbein 6, Augustana (Ill.) 5, Earlham 4, Webster 3, Mitchell 3, UW-La Crosse 3, Concordia Texas 2, Denison 2, New York Univ. 2, Rutgers-Camden 1.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on April 19, 2018, 10:40:47 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2018, 11:15:01 PM
In my dreams, we would get 2 teams from the NWC.

I believe you are right, you are dreaming.

Just like a tournament serves to add alot of regional losses of the best teams, parity in the conference does that as well.  For multiple bids from a conference you need a couple dominate teams with dominate non-conference records. This just is not the case in the NWC this year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on April 22, 2018, 12:07:01 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 19, 2018, 10:40:47 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2018, 11:15:01 PM
In my dreams, we would get 2 teams from the NWC.

I believe you are right, you are dreaming.

Just like a tournament serves to add alot of regional losses of the best teams, parity in the conference does that as well.  For multiple bids from a conference you need a couple dominate teams with dominate non-conference records. This just is not the case in the NWC this year.

Could the WIAC get a third team? Assuming they possibly take both Pool B bids and then go head to head for a Pool C bid with the rest of the country... and the NCAA has flown WIAC teams west before.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mike Lehman on April 22, 2018, 04:01:35 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 22, 2018, 12:07:01 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 19, 2018, 10:40:47 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2018, 11:15:01 PM
In my dreams, we would get 2 teams from the NWC.

I believe you are right, you are dreaming.

Just like a tournament serves to add alot of regional losses of the best teams, parity in the conference does that as well.  For multiple bids from a conference you need a couple dominate teams with dominate non-conference records. This just is not the case in the NWC this year.

Could the WIAC get a third team? Assuming they possibly take both Pool B bids and then go head to head for a Pool C bid with the rest of the country... and the NCAA has flown WIAC teams west before.
??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on April 23, 2018, 12:45:08 PM
With Willamette grabbing the NWC bid, we will know on Thursday whether Pac Lu or Linfield are considered contenders for a Pool C bid.  My expectation is to see a NWC team low in the regional rankings when they come out this week.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 24, 2018, 10:18:54 PM
McMurry beat Trinity 3-1 today. TU #1 James Nittoli (W-L 5-2; 9 GS and ERA 2.25) went 4.0 IP, gave up 2 runs in the first in the 1st and got the loss. Trinity went "pitching by committee" for the rest of the game.

Making his 3rd start of the year was McMurry Senior Tyler Jenkins (2-3) went got the complete game win.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 25, 2018, 09:42:09 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 24, 2018, 10:18:54 PM
McMurry beat Trinity 3-1 today. TU #1 James Nittoli (W-L 5-2; 9 GS and ERA 2.25) went 4.0 IP, gave up 2 runs in the first in the 1st and got the loss. Trinity went "pitching by committee" for the rest of the game.

Making his 3rd start of the year was McMurry Senior Tyler Jenkins (2-3) went got the complete game win.

Seems Trinity has been off their feed the last couple of weeks.   If you can't get more than one run in your final home game of the year off a guy with one win on the season, and who prior to last night had an ERA over 7 and hadn't lasted more than 5 1/3 innings in a start, well, that's not good.  :o
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Purple Heys on April 25, 2018, 01:56:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 25, 2018, 09:42:09 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 24, 2018, 10:18:54 PM
McMurry beat Trinity 3-1 today. TU #1 James Nittoli (W-L 5-2; 9 GS and ERA 2.25) went 4.0 IP, gave up 2 runs in the first in the 1st and got the loss. Trinity went "pitching by committee" for the rest of the game.

Making his 3rd start of the year was McMurry Senior Tyler Jenkins (2-3) went got the complete game win.

Seems Trinity has been off their feed the last couple of weeks.   If you can't get more than one run in your final home game of the year off a guy with one win on the season, and who prior to last night had an ERA over 7 and hadn't lasted more than 5 1/3 innings in a start, well, that's not good.  :o

Dude...that's baseball.   8-)

A perfect game, played by imperfect people in imperfect conditions, coached by imperfect people, and officiated by imperfect people.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 25, 2018, 02:30:05 PM
Quote from: Purple Heys on April 25, 2018, 01:56:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 25, 2018, 09:42:09 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 24, 2018, 10:18:54 PM
McMurry beat Trinity 3-1 today. TU #1 James Nittoli (W-L 5-2; 9 GS and ERA 2.25) went 4.0 IP, gave up 2 runs in the first in the 1st and got the loss. Trinity went "pitching by committee" for the rest of the game.

Making his 3rd start of the year was McMurry Senior Tyler Jenkins (2-3) went got the complete game win.

Seems Trinity has been off their feed the last couple of weeks.   If you can't get more than one run in your final home game of the year off a guy with one win on the season, and who prior to last night had an ERA over 7 and hadn't lasted more than 5 1/3 innings in a start, well, that's not good.  :o

Dude...that's baseball.   8-)

A perfect game, played by imperfect people in imperfect conditions, coached by imperfect people, and officiated by imperfect people.

One example is random chance.
Several examples - losses to sub-.500 teams in the last two weeks - could indicate more than that.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Purple Heys on April 25, 2018, 04:44:32 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 25, 2018, 02:30:05 PM
Quote from: Purple Heys on April 25, 2018, 01:56:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 25, 2018, 09:42:09 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 24, 2018, 10:18:54 PM
McMurry beat Trinity 3-1 today. TU #1 James Nittoli (W-L 5-2; 9 GS and ERA 2.25) went 4.0 IP, gave up 2 runs in the first in the 1st and got the loss. Trinity went "pitching by committee" for the rest of the game.

Making his 3rd start of the year was McMurry Senior Tyler Jenkins (2-3) went got the complete game win.

Seems Trinity has been off their feed the last couple of weeks.   If you can't get more than one run in your final home game of the year off a guy with one win on the season, and who prior to last night had an ERA over 7 and hadn't lasted more than 5 1/3 innings in a start, well, that's not good.  :o

Dude...that's college baseball.   8-)

A perfect game, played by imperfect people in imperfect conditions, coached by imperfect people, and officiated by imperfect people.

One example is random chance.
Several examples - losses to sub-.500 teams in the last two weeks - could indicate more than that.

Fixed it...  ;)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 26, 2018, 12:38:44 PM
Wouldn't be surprised to see NWC get shut out of the regional rankings today. As Jim mentioned, a lot of parity doesn't help. But what's more significant is that they didn't fare well in non-conference. Here are the non-con records of the top 4 NWC teams:

1. Pac Lu 5-10
2. Linfield 6-8
3. Willamette 12-6 (not bad)
4. George Fox 10-7 (Autobid)

What does that leave us?

Trinity will pretty clearly be the #1, and Redlands and Chapman should both be up there. Concordia should get a spot too.

I think La Verne, UT-Tyler, and Centenary are the next most deserving (leaving UT-Dallas, Pomona, Whittier, and the four NWC teams in the next tier), and that leaves out the NWC.

(this assuming 6 teams ranked, which is what I recall... Someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 26, 2018, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on April 26, 2018, 12:38:44 PM
Wouldn't be surprised to see NWC get shut out of the regional rankings today. As Jim mentioned, a lot of parity doesn't help. But what's more significant is that they didn't fare well in non-conference. Here are the non-con records of the top 4 NWC teams:

1. Pac Lu 5-10
2. Linfield 6-8
3. Willamette 12-6 (not bad)
4. George Fox 10-7 (Autobid)

What does that leave us?

Trinity will pretty clearly be the #1, and Redlands and Chapman should both be up there. Concordia should get a spot too.

I think La Verne, UT-Tyler, and Centenary are the next most deserving (leaving UT-Dallas, Pomona, Whittier, and the four NWC teams in the next tier), and that leaves out the NWC.

(this assuming 6 teams ranked, which is what I recall... Someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

I do not expect to see Centenary in at all.  Their schedule leaves plenty to be desired (159).  I also agree that the NWC will not show up in the RR's and only Willamette will be in Spokane.  I think the SCIAC will be well represented as there are some pretty darn good teams this year.  I believe the ASC is a 1-bid league and the SCAC could get 2 in, but only if Trinity fails to win the conference tournament.  The other thing to think about is there are a total of 5 more losses that will go to either Trinity or Centenary (3 game series this weekend and 2 in the SCAC tourney). 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 26, 2018, 03:55:31 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 26, 2018, 12:55:22 PM
I do not expect to see Centenary in at all.  Their schedule leaves plenty to be desired (159).  I also agree that the NWC will not show up in the RR's and only Willamette will be in Spokane.  I think the SCIAC will be well represented as there are some pretty darn good teams this year.  I believe the ASC is a 1-bid league and the SCAC could get 2 in, but only if Trinity fails to win the conference tournament.  The other thing to think about is there are a total of 5 more losses that will go to either Trinity or Centenary (3 game series this weekend and 2 in the SCAC tourney). 

1   Trinity (Texas)           28-4     31-4
2   Redlands                   28-9     28-9
3   Chapman                   27-10  17-10
4   Concordia (Texas)   25-12  25-12
5   Texas Lutheran           28-9     18-9
6   La Verne                   25-12   25-12
7   Texas-Tyler           23-13   23-13
8   Cal Lutheran           21-16   21-16

Good call on Centenary. Looks like we were right about the NWC, even with 8 teams ranked! Cal Lu is not the fourth SCIAC team I would have included (7th place in the SCIAC, under .500 in conference play), but they are the defending champs and have a good non-con showing. Still, there's no way they'll make it without a sweep of CMS and some help to get them into the SCIAC tournament.

Besides Cal Lu, these rankings make sense to me.

Also I'm a dummy and totally missed Tex Lu in my previous post.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on April 27, 2018, 01:59:16 PM
Texas Lutheran and La Verne were both swept by Tyler.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 27, 2018, 02:14:36 PM
Below are the current SOS for those teams you mentioned.  I'm really not sure I see how Tyler is ranked below either of them.

La Verne-63
TLU- 161
UT-Tyler- 46
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 27, 2018, 03:13:44 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 27, 2018, 02:14:36 PM
Below are the current SOS for those teams you mentioned.  I'm really not sure I see how Tyler is ranked below either of them.

La Verne-63
TLU- 161
UT-Tyler- 46
UTT went 7-2 versus regionally ranked opponents
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Teddy_Ballgame on April 30, 2018, 12:05:48 PM
Chapman, La Verne and Redlands all swept solid opponents this weekend and should maintain their spots in the rankings (though I agree it was odd to see Tyler behind ULV based on SOS and the head to head sweep). CLU dropped 2 of 3 to CMS, and did not make the SCIAC tournament. I think it's safe to say the defending national champs are donezo.

The SCIAC is in a great position to get at least one Pool C bid, depending on how things shake out this weekend. Redlands is the most obvious contender, but Chapman should be in a good position as well, especially if they can grab a win or two this weekend. ULV's road may be tougher, but making the championship game could be enough.

Meanwhile, Pomona backed into the tournament despite getting swept this weekend, after getting a lot of help from the other three tournament teams. They're happy to still be playing baseball, but if their bats get hot and they get some solid outings, they absolutely could make a run.

Friday games:
1. La Verne vs. 4. Pomona-Pitzer (at La Verne)
2. Redlands vs. 3. Chapman (at Redlands)

Double elimination tournament, with La Verne hosting all of the Saturday and Sunday games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 30, 2018, 09:08:24 PM
Trinity dropped a big turd in Shreveport over the weekend. All teams go through a funk during the season, but going into a conference tournament is not the time to do it. I saw part of a couple of games on video and they did not look like the number 1 team in the country. Pitching looked subpar and offensive uninspired. I am sure Scannell is in their grill this week, polls don't mean a thing at this point but they better getting some inspiration in San Antonio this week.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on April 30, 2018, 10:58:04 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 30, 2018, 09:08:24 PM
Trinity dropped a big turd in Shreveport over the weekend. All teams go through a funk during the season, but going into a conference tournament is not the time to do it. I saw part of a couple of games on video and they did not look like the number 1 team in the country. Pitching looked subpar and offensive uninspired. I am sure Scannell is in their grill this week, polls don't mean a thing at this point but they better getting some inspiration in San Antonio this week.

Three losses in four games for Trinity.  The usual reason to finish first is to host, but the SCAC tournament is at a neutral site.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2018, 10:39:15 AM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 30, 2018, 10:58:04 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 30, 2018, 09:08:24 PM
Trinity dropped a big turd in Shreveport over the weekend. All teams go through a funk during the season, but going into a conference tournament is not the time to do it. I saw part of a couple of games on video and they did not look like the number 1 team in the country. Pitching looked subpar and offensive uninspired. I am sure Scannell is in their grill this week, polls don't mean a thing at this point but they better getting some inspiration in San Antonio this week.

Three losses in four games for Trinity.  The usual reason to finish first is to host, but the SCAC tournament is at a neutral site.
I have wondered when the Depot in Cleburne, a minor league field, would submit a bid for a Regional. Cleburne is only 30 minutes south of DFW airport.  Either the SCAC or the ASC could host.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 01, 2018, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2018, 10:39:15 AM
Three losses in four games for Trinity.  The usual reason to finish first is to host, but the SCAC tournament is at a neutral site.
I have wondered when the Depot in Cleburne, a minor league field, would submit a bid for a Regional. Cleburne is only 30 minutes south of DFW airport.  Either the SCAC or the ASC could host.
[/quote]

The other reason is seeding and this year TLU/Centenary/Trinity are significantly better than the 4 seed.  First game will be very important.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on May 02, 2018, 11:59:13 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 01, 2018, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2018, 10:39:15 AM
Three losses in four games for Trinity.  The usual reason to finish first is to host, but the SCAC tournament is at a neutral site.
I have wondered when the Depot in Cleburne, a minor league field, would submit a bid for a Regional. Cleburne is only 30 minutes south of DFW airport.  Either the SCAC or the ASC could host.

The other reason is seeding and this year TLU/Centenary/Trinity are significantly better than the 4 seed.  First game will be very important.
[/quote]

Yes it does make it it a bit harder but just a little bit.  Assuming that Southwestern goes 0-2, the winner of the tournament will have to play one team one and the other team twice no matter the seeding.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 03, 2018, 02:20:25 PM
Wow.....

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Purple Heys on May 03, 2018, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 03, 2018, 02:20:25 PM
Wow.....

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3
Yeah, s/b:

1. Whittier
2. Redlands
3....

;D
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Purple Heys on May 03, 2018, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 03, 2018, 02:20:25 PM
Wow.....

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3

But seriously, folks.  These things are hard to translate and relate across leagues...however, the three top SCIAC teams did sweep their way in rather impressive fashion to close out their seasons against competitive teams.  All three go into the weekend riding some momentum, the SCIAC Championship Series should be a good one to watch.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 03, 2018, 04:17:47 PM
That's a big change for Trinity, but the good news is that they still have a conference tourney to play, and 2 of the 3 teams ahead of them right now will get 2 more losses.  Going to be a very interesting wait for next weeks regional rankings after 2 squads punch their ticket this weekend.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2018, 04:57:32 PM
WEST     
1 Redlands  31-9  31-9 
2 Chapman  30-10  30-10
3 La Verne  28-12  28-12
4 Trinity (Texas)  29-7  33-7
5 Concordia University Texas  26-13  26-13
6 Texas-Tyler  26-14  26-14
7 Texas Lutheran  31-9  31-9
8 Centenary (Louisiana)  24-14  24-14

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 04, 2018, 03:14:04 PM
Conference tournaments will shake this all up. ASC starts this weekend. Should be interesting. The league is balanced so I expect some surprises.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 04, 2018, 03:40:09 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 04, 2018, 03:14:04 PM
Conference tournaments will shake this all up. ASC starts this weekend. Should be interesting. The league is balanced so I expect some surprises.
I believe in the balance of the conference, but I hope that the conference Pool A bid doesn't go 2 and BBQ in the West Regional!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 04, 2018, 04:21:42 PM
Most teams go through a funk, however Trinity's timing is not great heading into a conference tournament with 2 other very competitive teams. They better win the conference if they want to be in the West Regional. Scannell is as good as any coach getting a  team ready, but I am not sure if they will have one of the their top pitchers back for the tournament or not. By the nature of the program they tend to have more depth than the other SCAC teams so they can, and have , come through a loser bracket, as they will face one of the top pitchers in the SCAC this afternoon. Going to be a very competitive conf. tournament.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 04, 2018, 06:45:24 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 04, 2018, 03:14:04 PM
Conference tournaments will shake this all up. ASC starts this weekend. Should be interesting. The league is balanced so I expect some surprises.

Absolutely.  Five of these teams listed right now will have 2 more losses added, and those who win their conference tourneys will add some wins against regionally ranked opponents.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 05, 2018, 09:54:15 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 04, 2018, 04:21:42 PM
Most teams go through a funk, however Trinity's timing is not great heading into a conference tournament with 2 other very competitive teams. They better win the conference if they want to be in the West Regional. Scannell is as good as any coach getting a  team ready, but I am not sure if they will have one of the their top pitchers back for the tournament or not. By the nature of the program they tend to have more depth than the other SCAC teams so they can, and have , come through a loser bracket, as they will face one of the top pitchers in the SCAC this afternoon. Going to be a very competitive conf. tournament.

Sadly, unless Trinity gets job done against Centenary (who probably starts Matthew Devillier today), their season may be over.   Such a shame given the way the season started - the last several weeks have just been painful. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2018, 08:43:05 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 05, 2018, 09:54:15 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 04, 2018, 04:21:42 PM
Most teams go through a funk, however Trinity's timing is not great heading into a conference tournament with 2 other very competitive teams. They better win the conference if they want to be in the West Regional. Scannell is as good as any coach getting a  team ready, but I am not sure if they will have one of the their top pitchers back for the tournament or not. By the nature of the program they tend to have more depth than the other SCAC teams so they can, and have , come through a loser bracket, as they will face one of the top pitchers in the SCAC this afternoon. Going to be a very competitive conf. tournament.

Sadly, unless Trinity gets job done against Centenary (who probably starts Matthew Devillier today), their season may be over.   Such a shame given the way the season started - the last several weeks have just been painful.
Trinity loses 4-0.  Trinity is out.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 05, 2018, 08:58:06 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 05, 2018, 09:54:15 AM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 04, 2018, 04:21:42 PM
Most teams go through a funk, however Trinity's timing is not great heading into a conference tournament with 2 other very competitive teams. They better win the conference if they want to be in the West Regional. Scannell is as good as any coach getting a  team ready, but I am not sure if they will have one of the their top pitchers back for the tournament or not. By the nature of the program they tend to have more depth than the other SCAC teams so they can, and have , come through a loser bracket, as they will face one of the top pitchers in the SCAC this afternoon. Going to be a very competitive conf. tournament.

Sadly, unless Trinity gets job done against Centenary (who probably starts Matthew Devillier today), their season may be over.   Such a shame given the way the season started - the last several weeks have just been painful.

It is crazy to think Trinity could miss getting a bid.  I don't see any of the SCIAC teams dropping below them and  mix of TLU, Concordia, and Tyler will move ahead of them, likely putting Trinity 3rd or 4th on the table from the West.  It's going to be a tough couple of days waiting t=for the next RR to come out.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2018, 09:35:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2018, 04:57:32 PM
WEST     
1 Redlands  31-9  31-9    Redlands 2-0 vs Chapman 2-1 on 5/06 for the bid
2 Chapman  30-10  30-10
3 La Verne  28-12  28-12            Went 1-2
4 Trinity (Texas)  29-7  33-7    2 & BBQ
5 Concordia University Texas  26-13  26-13 
6 Texas-Tyler  26-14  26-14
7 Texas Lutheran  31-9  31-9
8 Centenary (Louisiana)  24-14  24-14
As per Mike Lehman
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Mike Lehman on May 05, 2018, 10:12:40 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2018, 09:35:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2018, 04:57:32 PM
WEST     
1 Redlands  31-9  31-9 
2 Chapman  30-10  30-10
3 La Verne  28-12  28-12            Went 1-2
4 Trinity (Texas)  29-7  33-7    2 & BBQ
5 Concordia University Texas  26-13  26-13
6 Texas-Tyler  26-14  26-14
7 Texas Lutheran  31-9  31-9
8 Centenary (Louisiana)  24-14  24-14
Chapman 32-11 VS Redlands 33-9 in SCIAC Tournament Championship game Sunday May 5th. Chapman needs 2 wins. Do both get into the Regional Playoffs/ I think so.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 05, 2018, 10:34:40 PM
Quote from: Mike Lehman on May 05, 2018, 10:12:40 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2018, 09:35:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2018, 04:57:32 PM
WEST     
1 Redlands  31-9  31-9 
2 Chapman  30-10  30-10
3 La Verne  28-12  28-12            Went 1-2
4 Trinity (Texas)  29-7  33-7    2 & BBQ
5 Concordia University Texas  26-13  26-13
6 Texas-Tyler  26-14  26-14
7 Texas Lutheran  31-9  31-9
8 Centenary (Louisiana)  24-14  24-14
Chapman 32-11 VS Redlands 33-9 in SCIAC Tournament Championship game Sunday May 5th. Chapman needs 2 wins. Do both get into the Regional Playoffs/ I think so.

I think it is very safe to say both Chapman and Redlands will be playing in Spokane in a few weeks. La Verne is really going to have to wait and see where they are ranked regionally on Thursday, but I think they will drop too far.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 06, 2018, 11:41:35 AM
Trinity laid the biggest egg in end of season play in recent memory losing 5 of their last 6 games and going 2 BBQ in their conference tournament....very un-Trinity like. They certainly will not be in Spokane next month regardless what they have posted on their website. Very disappointing end to what started out unexpectedly strong season start. Just shows how important it is to improve during the season and to be playing well at the end. TLU or Centenary will represent SCAC in the tournament and both are playing good baseball right now.   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 06, 2018, 01:16:06 PM
Centenary bring Kirk back on 1 day rest after throwing 127 pitches on Friday....that hurts my arm.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2018, 09:20:59 PM
UTD at CTX next Thurs and Fri plus Sat if needed for the ASC bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 06, 2018, 10:05:17 PM
My guess right now on the regional seeds, if Concordia wins the ASC bid

1. Chapman
2. Concordia
3. Redlands
4. TLU
5. Either La Verne (it will depend on Thursdays Regional Rankings) or someone from outside the West.
6. Willamette

I think UT Tyler could have been a Pool C if they would have made it to next weeks Championship series. 

If UT Dallas wins the ASC bid

1. Chapman
2. Redlands
3. TLU
4. Concordia
5. UT Dallas
6. Willamette
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2018, 11:32:53 PM
I looked at TLU's and CTX's records against mutual opponents.

TLU is 17-7
CTX is 11-9.

There are no head-to-head games.

We can compare regionally ranked teams when the Ranking come out on Thursday.

TLU has played: Willamette, UTT, UTD, Trinity TX, University of Chicago and Centenary, teams which might be in the regional rankings next Thursday.

CTX has played: Rhodes, Chapman, Redlands, Concordia Chicago, Webster, UTD, UTT and Trinity TX.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 07, 2018, 12:01:59 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 06, 2018, 10:05:17 PM
My guess right now on the regional seeds, if Concordia wins the ASC bid

1. Chapman
2. Concordia
3. Redlands
4. TLU
5. Either La Verne (it will depend on Thursdays Regional Rankings) or someone from outside the West.
6. Willamette

I think UT Tyler could have been a Pool C if they would have made it to next weeks Championship series. 

If UT Dallas wins the ASC bid

1. Chapman
2. Redlands
3. TLU
4. Concordia
5. UT Dallas
6. Willamette
Jack, they are regionally ranking 8 teams.

At this time, I think that the last Pool C bid fills the 6th slot in the West Regional tourney with a non-West Region team.

I think that CTX will beat UTD.

Therefore my rankings are:

Chapman                 Pool A
Redlands                  Pool C
TLU                          Pool A
CTX                          Pool A
ULV                          left sitting on the table
UTT                          ditto
Trinity or Centenary         never got close to the table
Willamette                Pool A
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 07, 2018, 08:06:29 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 07, 2018, 12:01:59 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 06, 2018, 10:05:17 PM
My guess right now on the regional seeds, if Concordia wins the ASC bid

1. Chapman
2. Concordia
3. Redlands
4. TLU
5. Either La Verne (it will depend on Thursdays Regional Rankings) or someone from outside the West.
6. Willamette

I think UT Tyler could have been a Pool C if they would have made it to next weeks Championship series. 

If UT Dallas wins the ASC bid

1. Chapman
2. Redlands
3. TLU
4. Concordia
5. UT Dallas
6. Willamette
Jack, they are regionally ranking 8 teams.

At this time, I think that the last Pool C bid fills the 6th slot in the West Regional tourney with a non-West Region team.

I think that CTX will beat UTD.

Therefore my rankings are:

Chapman                 Pool A
Redlands                  Pool C
TLU                          Pool A
CTX                          Pool A
ULV                          left sitting on the table
UTT                          ditto
Trinity or Centenary         never got close to the table
Willamette                Pool A

I was looking more at what the seeds would be for the Regional in Spokane.  I don't see the West being an 8 team Regional so this was my attempt at an early projection.  Also, after looking at it more I definitely agree that La Verne is toast.  Do you think they will fly someone in as the 6th seed or 5th seed?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 07, 2018, 08:33:19 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 07, 2018, 08:06:29 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 07, 2018, 12:01:59 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 06, 2018, 10:05:17 PM
My guess right now on the regional seeds, if Concordia wins the ASC bid

1. Chapman
2. Concordia
3. Redlands
4. TLU
5. Either La Verne (it will depend on Thursdays Regional Rankings) or someone from outside the West.
6. Willamette

I think UT Tyler could have been a Pool C if they would have made it to next weeks Championship series. 

If UT Dallas wins the ASC bid

1. Chapman
2. Redlands
3. TLU
4. Concordia
5. UT Dallas
6. Willamette
Jack, they are regionally ranking 8 teams.

At this time, I think that the last Pool C bid fills the 6th slot in the West Regional tourney with a non-West Region team.

I think that CTX will beat UTD.

Therefore my rankings are:

Chapman                 Pool A
Redlands                  Pool C
TLU                          Pool A
CTX                          Pool A
ULV                          left sitting on the table
UTT                          ditto
Trinity or Centenary         never got close to the table
Willamette                Pool A

I was looking more at what the seeds would be for the Regional in Spokane.  I don't see the West being an 8 team Regional so this was my attempt at an early projection.  Also, after looking at it more I definitely agree that La Verne is toast.  Do you think they will fly someone in as the 6th seed or 5th seed?
Thanks, Jack.

I agree. I think that a non-West Region team comes to Spokane.  I want to review the past records in the West Regional to see how non-West Region teams have fared. I believe that the West Region has so much parity, that it is hard to build the gaudy numbers necessary to earn a Pool C bid when you are down that far into the criteria.

Look at this weekend.

ASC -- #2 and host Sul Ross state went 2 and BBQ against the #7 and the #6 seeds in the 11-team ASC (McMurry and Belhaven are ineligible.)

SCAC #3 seed TLU knocks off #1 seed Centenary.  (Yes, Trinity finished 2nd in the regular season, 1 game back.)  #4 Seed Southwestern beat Centenary 3-2, lost to TLU 3-2 and then was eliminated by Centenary 6-3.

SCIAC -- you know this conference well. Going into the last week of the season, we were wondering if Chapman would break out of the pack to seal a bid (eventually the #3 seed, sweeping Oxy) in which the top 7 teams were still in the chase.

That was wild.

In the NWC, Willamette is my darkhorse for the tourney.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 07, 2018, 05:23:54 PM
I guess the biggest shock is how far Trinity fell after being the #1 ranked team. The last 1/4 of the season they really tanked or were never that good to begin with.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on May 08, 2018, 10:33:16 AM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 07, 2018, 05:23:54 PM
I guess the biggest shock is how far Trinity fell after being the #1 ranked team. The last 1/4 of the season they really tanked or were never that good to begin with.

I don't follow the way I used to, but perhaps someone who does could weigh in?

Looks to me like some key starters they relied on early in the year (Flores, especially and Nittoli as well) threw much less as the season progressed. Both of these guys were great for them in '16-'17 as well. I'm not saying it's (necessarily the same), but what if TLU loses or has limited use Malinovsky or Drgac down the stretch? Centenary, same with Devillier or Kirk?

Scannell and staff have always done a good job building depth on the bump and getting lots of guys IP so that they're deep(er) -- than most D3 schools - for tournament play, but if my hypothesis is correct and you lost Flores (in early April?) and Nittoli was tender/less effective down the stretch as well, now you're relying on #4 and #5 (Nix and Husain?).

That's *tough* when you're facing the aforementioned #1 and #2's from TLU and Centenary (above).

Does it drop you from #1 in the country to out of the regional? No, maybe not, but we all know the rankings are imperfect until late in the season.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: TexasBB on May 08, 2018, 02:32:52 PM
Nothing on their website indicated that there were any health issues with their pitching staff . Not sure why Flores innings were down. Note he had only 39 innings yet had 7 starts.
Flores last appearance was on April 6 and only went .2 innings. He very well may have had an injury.  On the other hand Lonnecker really stepped up and had a 1.52 ERA. Not a starter but key in relief.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 08, 2018, 06:06:29 PM
I asked someone who was a bit closer to the team and said Flores got Mono and was not available. I did not follow the team that close but it looked like they stopped scoring runs. I am always leery of a team that starts out hot early, I actually prefer if there are struggles during the season as it builds character and toughness in a team; which prepares players for a tough playoff run. This team just seemed to fold under the pressure at the end. All speculation on my part as I never actually saw a game other than a few video webcasts.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: waterlogged on May 08, 2018, 07:10:56 PM
Trinity staff is pretty deep, has 4-5 that touch 90+ which is unusual for a D3 staff.  Flores did get mono which kept him out.  I don't know when Nittoli initially had arm issues but he definitely was injured in the Centenary series (as well as Chaumette).  I suspect it was much earlier.  Even with the pitching injuries, it was the offense and defense that struggled far more than the pitching.   Sometimes it just doesn't go your way.  They should be poised for a good run next year. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: alldone on May 10, 2018, 02:18:22 PM
May 10, 2018
West      
1.   Chapman   34-11   34-11
2.   Redlands   33-11   33-11
3.   Concordia University Texas   29-14   29-14
4.   Texas-Tyler   29-16   29-16
5.   Texas Lutheran   34-9   34-9
6.   La Verne   29-14   29-14
7.   Trinity (Texas)   29-9   33-9
8.   Centenary (Louisiana)   26-16   26-16
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 10, 2018, 02:28:50 PM
Quote from: alldone on May 10, 2018, 02:18:22 PM
May 10, 2018
West      
1.   Chapman   34-11   34-11
2.   Redlands   33-11   33-11
3.   Concordia University Texas   29-14   29-14
4.   Texas-Tyler   29-16   29-16
5.   Texas Lutheran   34-9   34-9
6.   La Verne   29-14   29-14
7.   Trinity (Texas)   29-9   33-9
8.   Centenary (Louisiana)   26-16   26-16

UTT is really rooting for CTX to win this weekend so they are the #2 Pool C in the West.  If CTX fails to win, UTT can turn their gear in.  La Verne, Trinity and Centenary have no shot.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2018, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 10, 2018, 02:28:50 PM
Quote from: alldone on May 10, 2018, 02:18:22 PM
May 10, 2018
West      
1.   Chapman   34-11   34-11
2.   Redlands   33-11   33-11
3.   Concordia University Texas   29-14   29-14
4.   Texas-Tyler   29-16   29-16
5.   Texas Lutheran   34-9   34-9
6.   La Verne   29-14   29-14
7.   Trinity (Texas)   29-9   33-9
8.   Centenary (Louisiana)   26-16   26-16

UTT is really rooting for CTX to win this weekend so they are the #2 Pool C in the West.  If CTX fails to win, UTT can turn their gear in.  La Verne, Trinity and Centenary have no shot.
I agree about UTT. They are 10-6 against regionally ranked teams including 2-4 against CTX.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 28, 2018, 07:57:15 PM
UT-Tyler  8, Randolph Macon 6

TLU 5,  Concordia Chicago 4.

This is the first time in the history of D-3 (42 national championships) for the 2 finalists to come from the same region!

The West Region will have won 4 of the last 6 National Championships.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on May 28, 2018, 08:38:49 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 28, 2018, 07:57:15 PM
UT-Tyler  8, Randolph Macon 6

TLU 5,  Concordia Chicago 4.

This is the first time in the history of D-3 (42 national championships) for the 2 finalists to come from the same region!

The West Region will have won 4 of the last 6 National Championships.

Congrats Texas-Tyler and TLU!!
West region continues to be very strong!!

GRAND CHUTE, Wis. - No region has ever won three consecutive Division III baseball national championships.

Until now!!!   Great job West Region!!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 28, 2018, 10:46:55 PM
Pat Coleman called UT-Tyler the Cinderella of the Central Region

http://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/2018/previews/central-regional-playoff-preview
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2019, 09:22:40 PM
Looking at the West Region...

CTX at #11 looks very good. A split with Redlands was good. I am sorry to see that they were swept by Wash St L, a potential playoff team (again).  There doesn't seem to be anything in the conference to slow them down. They host TLU on 04/02

Trinity is #1. They host TLU this weekend. I can imagine TU going 34-6 in the regular season.

TLU is #8. I am expecting them to win 31 games in the regular season.

My impression is that the NWC is either weak or very very very balanced. The record against teams outside the conference is not as good as one would expect.

The SCIAC is a mess. Yeah, Cal Lu (#16) and Chapman (#14) are getting votes but seem suspect this early into the conference schedule.

LaVerne went only 1-2 against both Chapman and P-P.

Oxy has a good record against mediocre competition. (Centenary LA is just not as strong as 2 years ago.)

Any thoughts?

I can imagine two 3-team regionals in the new playoff format.

CTX - TLU and TUTX in Texas

NWC and Chapman and CLU in southern California.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 23, 2019, 12:23:46 AM
TLU won't win 31 until Malinovsky gets back on track. 12-2 with a 1.38 ERA/ .188 OBA last year, he's 2-3 in six starts with a 6-ish ERA and .330-ish OBA after giving up 7 ER in 7 IP at Trinity tonight.   Wonder if he's battling some sort of nagging injury?

Edit:  6.14 ERA/.336 OBA
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2019, 05:45:16 PM
It looks like TLU may win Game 2.

Good point about a chronic injury. This looks like his sophomore season.

I had Malinowsky figured for 5 more starts.  I gave him wins against UDallas, Austin and Schreiner. I gave no decision against Southwestern and Centenary, but TLU winning both.

I am projecting a loss to TU in the night cap to go 14-7.

Looking at the rest of the schedule, I am predicting only 2 losses among 7 games against CTX, Southwestern and Centenary.

We will see.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 23, 2019, 08:36:37 PM
Lol after the domination in game 2, they are ahead in game 3 so maybe they get to 31 even with Malinovsky playing the way he is.  TLU's good enough to score enough runs on most of the other SCAC teams to win more often than not. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2019, 10:04:18 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 23, 2019, 08:36:37 PM
Lol after the domination in game 2, they are ahead in game 3 so maybe they get to 31 even with Malinovsky playing the way he is.  TLU's good enough to score enough runs on most of the other SCAC teams to win more often than not.
Going to extra innings in Game 3. Tied at 6.

This has been a great series.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2019, 11:29:57 PM
TLU 9-6 (10 innings ) in Game 3.

Now is the time for TU to get its house in order and make its run.

Might we see 3 more games with TLU & TU in the SCAC tourney and possibly 3 more in the NCAA's?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 31, 2019, 09:46:37 PM
I have brought a conversation to this board for discussion. Jack Parkman asked a question about Trinity TX

Trinity is in fine shape.


Team                    Regional record   Regional win %  OWP (rank)     OOWP    NCAA SOS
4 Trinity (Texas)   18-7                    .720                    .6543 (6)     .5662        0.625

Quote from: Jack Parkman on March 31, 2019, 09:33:39 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 31, 2019, 08:59:28 PM
The 19-5 record by HPU is not reassuring to this point. They have only lost 5 games to a D-2 to boost the resume.


Records and winning percentage are based on in-region games only. OWP: Opponents' winning percentage. OOWP: Opponents' opponents' winning percentage. SOS: two-thirds OWP and one-third OOWP.

Team                    Regional record   Regional win %  OWP (rank)     OOWP    NCAA SOS

310 Howard Payne   19-5                           .792                     .4286 (331)   .5400   0.466

Ralph- this might be more suited for the SCAC board but what will things look like for Trinity with them playing so many games out of region?  Will anyone look at that as a negative?

We don't get Regional Rankings for another 4 weeks, but my guess is the we get a 3-team pod in Texas and in Southern California. Let's assume that the
Conference Pool A bids are:

HPU
TLU (Series winner over TUTX)
Cal Lutheran (which won the series over Chapman)
Whitworth


I have HPU playing Trinity at TLU in Game one.

I have Whitworth playing Chapman at Cal Lu in Game one.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 31, 2019, 09:51:39 PM
For me, the biggest story this season is the new relevance of Cal Tech in the SCIAC.

The Beavers have risen up and bitten Cal Lutheran, Pitzer and LaVerne!

I can see Cal Tech finishing as high as 6th!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on April 01, 2019, 11:33:50 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 31, 2019, 09:51:39 PM
For me, the biggest story this season is the new relevance of Cal Tech in the SCIAC.

The Beavers have risen up and bitten Cal Lutheran, Pitzer and LaVerne!

I can see Cal Tech finishing as high as 6th!

Love this! It will only help the SCIAC's SoS.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2019, 06:08:40 PM
Tourney time is around the corner.

The ASC will come down to the last weekend to settle which 2 teams will host the first weekend of 4-team tourneys. Those winners will then play best 2-of-3 for the Pool A bid the next weekend.

U Ozarks (7-11 /  14-22) needs to sweep McMurry in Abilene next weekend for a chance at a playoff slot.

LeTourneau (9-9 / 20 - 17) hosts UTD. LeTourneau has a magic number of 2 with wins over UTD or one UOz loss.
With one LeTU win and finishing in a tie with UOz at 10-11, we would be deep in the ASC Playoff handbook for tie-breakers. There is no head-to head, so the second tie-breaker is record against the highest seeded team until the tie is broken.

UT-D is (10-8 / 18-18) but has the 3-0 sweep over UOzarks in the regular season for that head-to-head tie-breaker.

A three way tie between UT-D, LeTU, and UOz at 10-11 would also be deep into the tie-breakers.  The best 2 teams would advance.

*Howard Payne           14-4   0.778      21-12   0.636   hosts HSU for 3 games
*East Texas Baptist   15-5   0.750      26-10   0.722        at LaCollege for 3 games   
*Concordia (Texas)   13-5   0.722      27-9           0.750         at UMHB for 3 games   
*Louisiana College   14-7   0.667      27-9           0.750         hosts ETBU for 3 games
*Hardin-Simmons   12-7   0.632          18-16        0.529   at HPU for 3 games. Sweeping HPU leapfrogs HSU ahead of HPU by 1/2 game
*Texas-Dallas           10-8   0.556          18-18   0.500        hosts LeTU; has clinched
*Sul Ross State         11-10   0.524      15-19   0.441        has finished conference play; hosts UT-Tyler    
LeTourneau            9-9   0.500      20-17   0.541   at UTDallas; needs two wins clinch the last spot

(* = Clinched playoff spot)
   
Univ of the Ozarks   7-11   0.389      14-22   0.389   

HSU had 2 games with UMHB canceled. That probably hurt them with respect to host a first round tourney. HSU may have had 2 more wins.

HSU can host a first weekend tourney if:

HSU sweeps HPU, to get to 15-7
CTX loses 2 games to UMHB to fall to 14-7

Then:

LaCollege sweeps ETBU to get 17-7
ETBU wins at least one game against LaCollege to get to 17-7.

Getting the full 3-game series in Pineville and at UTD next weekend are crucial for that last playoff spot and possibly to determine who hosts the first round of the tourney.

Conference tie-breaker policy:

http://www.ascsports.org/sports/2014/7/24/_0724143852.aspx


Footnote: The conference standings are impacted by teams playing UT-Tyler in the 2019 schedule. Games against UT-Tyler do not count as conference games, because of UT-Tyler's move to D-2.  Therefore some teams played 24 conference games; others played 21. HSU and UMHB  had a DH canceled because of weather.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2019, 10:22:32 PM
SCAC tourney is scheduled May 3-5, a 4-team double elimination format, with the 4 bids already clinched.

TLU has a virtual 2 game lead over Trinity by virtue of winning the season series, 2 games to 1.

Southwestern (9-6)  hosts Centenary LA (8-7) for the 3rd seed. The winner of this 3-game series gets 3rd seed.

Hmmm, who or which pitcher would you rather face in the first round?

An Austin Smith / Nathan Malinovsky match up would be fun in the first round!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2019, 10:31:56 PM
The SCIAC post season tourney will be held on campus sites of the #1 and #2 seeds, according to the SCIAC website on May 10-12.

CHAPMAN           13-5   0.722      24-9   0.727   
LA VERNE           12-6   0.667      25-9   0.735   
CAL LUTHERAN   12-6   0.667           23-11 0.676   
OCCIDENTAL   11-7   0.611           23-11  0.676 

With 6 games to play C-M-S and Whittier are on the verge of elimination.

C-M-S           8-10   0.444          15-12-1   0.554   
WHITTIER      8-10   0.444          18-16   0.529   
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2019, 10:43:20 PM
The Northwest Conference tourney is scheduled for April 26-28, 2019, at the #1 seed.

Whitworth   24   19-5           0.792      22-12   0.647   
Pacific (Ore.)   24   15-9           0.625      23-16   0.590   
Whitman           24   15-9           0.625      20-16   0.556   
Pac Lutheran   24   14-10   0.583      22-14   0.611

   
George Fox   24   14-10   0.583      22-15   0.595   
Willamette   24   14-10   0.583      17-15   0.531   

The participants have not been listed yet, but Pac Lu is 2-1 against both teams.
George Fox went 1-5 against the other two including being swept by Willamette.
I assume that George Fox is eliminated and then Pac Lu gets the tie-breaker because they won the head-to-head against Willamette.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: (509)Rat on April 21, 2019, 09:23:37 AM
You are correct. Whitworth is scheduled to play PLU 4/26 at noon in Spokane
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 24, 2019, 11:12:06 PM
First Regional Rankings

https://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/2019/regional-rankings-week1

   West   In-Division Record   Overall Record
1   Chapman   24-9   24-9
2   Trinity (Texas)   29-8   30-9
3   Texas Lutheran   27-8   27-8
4   La Verne   25-9   25-9
5   Concordia University Texas   27-9   27-9
6   Cal Lutheran   23-11   23-11
7   Occidental   23-11   23-11
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on April 25, 2019, 12:29:29 PM
If both Trinity and TLU make it to the SCAC championship game they both should make a regional, which is good to see.
If Chapman wins SCIAC it might be tough to see two SCIAC teams in regionals.
NW conf ....smh
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 25, 2019, 04:39:56 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 25, 2019, 12:29:29 PM
If both Trinity and TLU make it to the SCAC championship game they both should make a regional, which is good to see.
If Chapman wins SCIAC it might be tough to see two SCIAC teams in regionals.
NW conf ....smh
I think that the NWC is becoming more balanced. Interleague play shows fairly good results, but they seem to beat themselves up.

Remember. We go to the super-regional format this year.  There are 13  four-team regionals and 3 two-teams regionals playing a best-of-five

We will likely see two Best of five series among 4 teams in Texas and probably a best of 5 in California.  The

I am hoping for an outside team to come to Texas.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 28, 2019, 09:05:59 PM
Whitman knocks off #1 seed Whitworth to earn the NWC Pool A bid.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2019, 05:26:34 PM
Trinity beats TLU in game 1 of the SCAC championship 9 - 3 to force final winner take all game 2. TLU still has the edge in pitching depth but Trinity got 8 innings out of starter Arjun Thakar which should even up the pitching match up a bit.

https://www.scacsports.com/sports/bsb/2018-19/boxscores/20190505_b03a.xml

I would think that both TLU and Trinity should qualify for a regional spot based on previous rankings.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 05, 2019, 07:53:13 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2019, 05:26:34 PM
Trinity beats TLU in game 1 of the SCAC championship 9 - 3 to force final winner take all game 2. TLU still has the edge in pitching depth but Trinity got 8 innings out of starter Arjun Thakar which should even up the pitching match up a bit.

https://www.scacsports.com/sports/bsb/2018-19/boxscores/20190505_b03a.xml

I would think that both TLU and Trinity should qualify for a regional spot based on previous rankings.

Game 2 has been a good one so far.  As I type this, the TLU 2b boots a routine chopper, base hit, base hit with an awful throwing error, another throwing error to load the bags with 0 out.....and now they reversed the call. And now a 2-run double.  TLU has done everything to give this game away, and Trinity has absolutely pounced on TLU's generocity.

If things hold up the way they are right now, I could see the winner of the SCAC Trinity hosting a 4-team regional with both SCAC schools as the 1 and 2 seed, Concordia (TX) as the 3 seed, and a second SCIAC school as the 4 seed.  The SCIAC getting a second team seems "somewhat" safe right now, but it also depends on Pool C from all over the country.  La Verne or Oxy needs to play in the SCIAC to feel like they have a good shot.  If neither makes the title game, it's going to be a real stressful wait. 

This weeks Regional Rankings will tell the story but I could see the following:

1. Chapman
2. Trinity
3. TLU
4. Concordia
5. Oxy
6. La Verne
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2019, 08:31:04 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 05, 2019, 07:53:13 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2019, 05:26:34 PM
Trinity beats TLU in game 1 of the SCAC championship 9 - 3 to force final winner take all game 2. TLU still has the edge in pitching depth but Trinity got 8 innings out of starter Arjun Thakar which should even up the pitching match up a bit.

https://www.scacsports.com/sports/bsb/2018-19/boxscores/20190505_b03a.xml

I would think that both TLU and Trinity should qualify for a regional spot based on previous rankings.

Game 2 has been a good one so far.  As I type this, the TLU 2b boots a routine chopper, base hit, base hit with an awful throwing error, another throwing error to load the bags with 0 out.....and now they reversed the call. And now a 2-run double.  TLU has done everything to give this game away, and Trinity has absolutely pounced on TLU's generocity.

If things hold up the way they are right now, I could see the winner of the SCAC Trinity hosting a 4-team regional with both SCAC schools as the 1 and 2 seed, Concordia (TX) as the 3 seed, and a second SCIAC school as the 4 seed.  The SCIAC getting a second team seems "somewhat" safe right now, but it also depends on Pool C from all over the country.  La Verne or Oxy needs to play in the SCIAC to feel like they have a good shot.  If neither makes the title game, it's going to be a real stressful wait. 

This weeks Regional Rankings will tell the story but I could see the following:

1. Chapman
2. Trinity
3. TLU
4. Concordia
5. Oxy
6. La Verne
Do we see 2 SCIAC teams in the playoffs going for a best of 5?

I think that they fly Whitman to Trinity to fill a regional along with Pool C TLU and probably Pool A CTX/(LeTU).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 05, 2019, 08:35:49 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2019, 08:31:04 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 05, 2019, 07:53:13 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 05, 2019, 05:26:34 PM
Trinity beats TLU in game 1 of the SCAC championship 9 - 3 to force final winner take all game 2. TLU still has the edge in pitching depth but Trinity got 8 innings out of starter Arjun Thakar which should even up the pitching match up a bit.

https://www.scacsports.com/sports/bsb/2018-19/boxscores/20190505_b03a.xml

I would think that both TLU and Trinity should qualify for a regional spot based on previous rankings.

Game 2 has been a good one so far.  As I type this, the TLU 2b boots a routine chopper, base hit, base hit with an awful throwing error, another throwing error to load the bags with 0 out.....and now they reversed the call. And now a 2-run double.  TLU has done everything to give this game away, and Trinity has absolutely pounced on TLU's generocity.

If things hold up the way they are right now, I could see the winner of the SCAC Trinity hosting a 4-team regional with both SCAC schools as the 1 and 2 seed, Concordia (TX) as the 3 seed, and a second SCIAC school as the 4 seed.  The SCIAC getting a second team seems "somewhat" safe right now, but it also depends on Pool C from all over the country.  La Verne or Oxy needs to play in the SCIAC to feel like they have a good shot.  If neither makes the title game, it's going to be a real stressful wait. 

This weeks Regional Rankings will tell the story but I could see the following:

1. Chapman
2. Trinity
3. TLU
4. Concordia
5. Oxy
6. La Verne
Do we see 2 SCIAC teams in the playoffs going for a best of 5?

I think that they fly Whitman to Trinity to fill a regional along with Pool C TLU and probably Pool A CTX/(LeTU).

If so, that would really stink for the SCIAC as it sets president for the NCAA to repeatedly do that if/when multiple schools from the same conference in the West qualify for the regionals.  Other regions have many more options to bus schools around.  I am ok with multiple teams from a conference playing in a regional, just not a 2-team best of 5 series.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
Oh I agree. Life is tough out here on the archipelago!

I would like for a SCIAC team to come to Texas.

There are 3 two-game pods to be played.

There may be a travel orphan out of the South in which one of the pods needs to be played.

The third pod might be used in either the Central or Midwest Region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on May 06, 2019, 12:39:18 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 05, 2019, 08:35:49 PM
If so, that would really stink for the SCIAC as it sets president for the NCAA to repeatedly do that if/when multiple schools from the same conference in the West qualify for the regionals.  Other regions have many more options to bus schools around.  I am ok with multiple teams from a conference playing in a regional, just not a 2-team best of 5 series.

I think the NCAA agrees with you. They will do what they need to do for competitive regionals. Years ago, they started adding more than the minimum flights so I do not see either the SCAC or the SLIAC playing each other in a two team regional.

I expect to see two SCIAC and SCAC schools selected along with Whitman and the ASC winner awarded bids and nothing this weekend has convinced me different.  Look for TLU and Whitman to fly to So. Cal to play at Chapman (assumes Chapman gets to the SCIAC title game) with the ASC winner playing Trinity at Trinity (Trinity will be top 2 in West regional rankings).  This is the cheapest way to avoid a single conference two team regional and rewards the top teams in the region with home games.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 06, 2019, 11:56:40 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 06, 2019, 12:39:18 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 05, 2019, 08:35:49 PM
If so, that would really stink for the SCIAC as it sets president for the NCAA to repeatedly do that if/when multiple schools from the same conference in the West qualify for the regionals.  Other regions have many more options to bus schools around.  I am ok with multiple teams from a conference playing in a regional, just not a 2-team best of 5 series.

I think the NCAA agrees with you. They will do what they need to do for competitive regionals. Years ago, they started adding more than the minimum flights so I do not see either the SCAC or the SLIAC playing each other in a two team regional.

I expect to see two SCIAC and SCAC schools selected along with Whitman and the ASC winner awarded bids and nothing this weekend has convinced me different.  Look for TLU and Whitman to fly to So. Cal to play at Chapman (assumes Chapman gets to the SCIAC title game) with the ASC winner playing Trinity at Trinity (Trinity will be top 2 in West regional rankings).  This is the cheapest way to avoid a single conference two team regional and rewards the top teams in the region with home games.

Is it fair to assume that you believe it is cheaper to fly teams to LA and not San Antonio?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 07, 2019, 07:01:47 PM
I took the position that one flight was cheaper than two with the bulk pricing that the NCAA has with the airlines.

Candidly, I have seen so many times when I felt like the West Region/ ASC/ SCAC has gotten the wrong end of the 50/50 call, so that 50/50 is more like 40/60 in real life.

If Jim is correct by his logic, then I applaud his insight and the wisdom of the NCAA.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 07, 2019, 10:09:23 PM
Good thing the championships don't start this weekend .. Texas has been inundated with rain for the last month and it's supposed to rain every day through the weekend.   Hopefully it will dry out before next weekend
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2019, 03:06:19 PM
New Regional Rankings are out...

1. Chapman
2. Trinity
3. Texas Lutheran
4. La Verne
5. Occidental
6. Concordia (TX)
7. Cal Lutheran
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on May 10, 2019, 12:36:24 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2019, 03:06:19 PM
New Regional Rankings are out...

1. Chapman
2. Trinity
3. Texas Lutheran
4. La Verne
5. Occidental
6. Concordia (TX)
7. Cal Lutheran

Expected as Oxy won all their games between rankings so CTX could not jump them and LV lost at least one game so I can see them dropping down.  Three games with Trinity must have given TLU a SOS boost for their rise.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2019, 05:37:34 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 10, 2019, 12:36:24 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2019, 03:06:19 PM
New Regional Rankings are out...

1. Chapman
2. Trinity
3. Texas Lutheran
4. La Verne
5. Occidental
6. Concordia (TX)
7. Cal Lutheran

Expected as Oxy won all their games between rankings so CTX could not jump them and LV lost at least one game so I can see them dropping down.  Three games with Trinity must have given TLU a SOS boost for their rise.
Big picture for the West Region...

I like it. I expect CTX to win the ASC Pool A, and we may get 2 Pool C bids.

Jim's thought of having the 4-team pod in SoCal and TUTX hosting CTX looks plausible.

What I would really like is for West Region teams to be sent to different super-regionals and not play each other.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Bmo on May 11, 2019, 12:45:27 PM
Here's my completely uneducated guess at formats and participants.  West gets 5 teams in, and TLU is the pool C.  I believe that the NCAA has 3 2-team format regionals they have to use, so they'll probably use them in the West.  Chapman vs Whitman, Concordia vs TLU, Trinity vs Fly-In. 

At least this way, you would have the potential for 3 west teams into the supers.  If the west gets a 4 team and a 2 team, there is little doubt those those regional winners will get paired up and knock each other out of the WS.

It looks like Chapman loosing the only way the west gets 6 teams in.  Still a chance the West only gets in the Pool As, which would be a really bad precedent.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on May 11, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
Quote from: Bmo on May 11, 2019, 12:45:27 PM
Here's my completely uneducated guess at formats and participants.  West gets 5 teams in, and TLU is the pool C.  I believe that the NCAA has 3 2-team format regionals they have to use, so they'll probably use them in the West.  Chapman vs Whitman, Concordia vs TLU, Trinity vs Fly-In. 

At least this way, you would have the potential for 3 west teams into the supers.  If the west gets a 4 team and a 2 team, there is little doubt those those regional winners will get paired up and knock each other out of the WS.

It looks like Chapman loosing the only way the west gets 6 teams in.  Still a chance the West only gets in the Pool As, which would be a really bad precedent.

I see two west regionals a 2 and 4 team regional.  The other 2 team regionals can be used on conferenses that has three members in the playoffs.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2019, 08:23:03 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 11, 2019, 05:38:19 PM

I see two west regionals a 2 and 4 team regional.  The other 2 team regionals can be used on conferenses that has three members in the playoffs.
Jim, do you see any other travel orphans where the 2-team regional might be used?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 11, 2019, 09:31:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2019, 08:23:03 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 11, 2019, 05:38:19 PM

I see two west regionals a 2 and 4 team regional.  The other 2 team regionals can be used on conferenses that has three members in the playoffs.
Jim, do you see any other travel orphans where the 2-team regional might be used?

Maybe LaGrange and Birmingham Southern?  That is just a guess as I know they are fairly close.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 13, 2019, 12:27:23 PM
The NCAA once again finds a way to screw Trinity out of hosting. Would love to hear the logic involved in putting this regional at Texas Lutheran, it's not like they can claim to save travel money this time.

Maybe Trinity said field conditions wouldn't allow the games to be played or didn't apply, I dunno, but this really gets old.  I see several other #1s get the privilege of travelling to play at #2's field so at least TU isn't alone. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 13, 2019, 12:49:13 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 13, 2019, 12:27:23 PM
The NCAA once again finds a way to screw Trinity out of hosting. Would love to hear the logic involved in putting this regional at Texas Lutheran, it's not like they can claim to save travel money this time.

Maybe Trinity said field conditions wouldn't allow the games to be played or didn't apply, I dunno, but this really gets old.  I see several other #1s get the privilege of travelling to play at #2's field so at least TU isn't alone.

I'm guessing it's due to graduation. Ring on Saturday the 18th. TLU just held graduation on the 11th.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 13, 2019, 12:58:53 PM
Hmm.  Trinity holds its graduations in Laurie Auditorium which has parking well away from lower campus where the stadium is located.  I guess it's possible but it's very unfortunate for the guys regardless.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Just_Some_Guy on May 13, 2019, 02:50:02 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 13, 2019, 12:27:23 PM
The NCAA once again finds a way to screw Trinity out of hosting.

Doesn't the highest seed that puts in a bid get to host ? (i.e. had Trinity put in a bid they would be hosting)

In talking with a Trinity alum, he's not positive, but believes Jack is correct re: Trinity didn't put in a bid because of graduation.

Either way, glad we may have an opportunity to see more epic TU vs. TLU postseason games.

JSG
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 04, 2019, 07:23:35 PM
Congratulations to Chapman who rolled through Birmingham-Southern 6-4 / 11-0 to claim the national championship.  That's four straight (and a runner-up, last season) for the West Region.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 04, 2019, 08:26:19 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on June 04, 2019, 07:23:35 PM
Congratulations to Chapman who rolled through Birmingham-Southern 6-4 / 11-0 to claim the national championship.  That's four straight (and a runner-up, last season) for the West Region,
... and five of the last 7 with Linfield in 2013.

UT-Tyler won it last year coming out of the "Central Regional", too.

I wish we could get our West Region teams disbursed across the country.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on March 03, 2020, 03:27:13 PM
March 3, 2020
2020 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, Week 2
Through games of Sunday, March 1, 2020:

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Washington U. (9)   6-0   563   4
2   Cal Lutheran (7)   13-1   550   15
3   Chapman (1)           10-3   534   1
4   Trinity (Texas) (2)   8-2   529   2


I know it's early, but that's a lot of West representation at the top!!
3 out of top 4.


If the season ended this way would they send 2 of the teams to other regions?
Or just the 2nd place SCIAC team (which wouldn't be a guaranteed selection)


Again... it's early, but it's fun to speculate!!

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on March 03, 2020, 08:40:05 PM
Also, most other regions are just getting going so west teams have piled up wins as other teams sit in gyms.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on March 03, 2020, 11:13:59 PM
Quote from: SoCalSoxFan on March 03, 2020, 03:27:13 PM
March 3, 2020
2020 D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25, Week 2
Through games of Sunday, March 1, 2020:

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Washington U. (9)   6-0   563   4
2   Cal Lutheran (7)   13-1   550   15
3   Chapman (1)           10-3   534   1
4   Trinity (Texas) (2)   8-2   529   2

Remember that five of six losses for the three West Region teams came this last weekend


I know it's early, but that's a lot of West representation at the top!!
3 out of top 4.


If the season ended this way would they send 2 of the teams to other regions?
Or just the 2nd place SCIAC team (which wouldn't be a guaranteed selection)


Again... it's early, but it's fun to speculate!!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: SoCalSoxFan on March 05, 2020, 03:34:19 PM
Chapman vs CLU automatically contributed 3 of those losses...
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 05, 2021, 10:35:21 PM
First NCAA regional rankings (https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/regional-rankings) are out.   

West                    In-Division  Overall
1   Trinity (Texas)       22-5      25-5
2   Centenary (La)      27-9      30-9
3   Pacific (Oregon)    25-11    25-11
4   Texas-Dallas         23-10    24-10
5   Texas Lutheran      21-9     25-11
6   Williamette            27-13   27-13
7   East Texas Baptist  22-13   26-14
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 17, 2021, 11:29:39 AM
Looks like everyone in the West will be on a flight somewhere. Curious if they all go to the same regional or if they are spread out.

TLU
UT Dallas
Pacific
SCIAC winner
Trinity (pool C)

Would seem odd if all of these went to the same spot but I could see them being split in a two/three way and going to 2 locations.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 19, 2021, 12:05:34 AM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 17, 2021, 11:29:39 AM
Looks like everyone in the West will be on a flight somewhere. Curious if they all go to the same regional or if they are spread out.

TLU
UT Dallas
Pacific
SCIAC winner
Trinity (pool C)

Would seem odd if all of these went to the same spot but I could see them being split in a two/three way and going to 2 locations.
If Texas team submitted a bid to host, then there should be a 6-team regional there.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 19, 2021, 10:31:08 AM
Apparently they didn't (or more likely the NCAA did its usual jerk thing) because the sites were announced and there are ZERO in the West Region.  Yes, you won the last four championships, but you don't get a regional.  But hey, the MidWorst got three!

https://d3baseball.com/playoffs/2021/playoff-central_2021

QuoteRegional Sites:

The High Point Rockers announced that Truist Point in High Point will be one of eight host sites host site for the NCAA Baseball Regionals set for May 27-31.  Greensboro College will serve as the host institution for the regional.

The seven other Regional sites are: Auburn, N.Y., Marietta, Ohio, Decatur, Ill., Hartford, Conn., Collegeville, Minn., Saint Paul, Minn. and Whitewater, Wisc.

[edit: man I wish there was a way to keep this thing from double spacing after a period].
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 20, 2021, 05:57:35 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 19, 2021, 10:31:08 AM
Apparently they didn't (or more likely the NCAA did its usual jerk thing) because the sites were announced and there are ZERO in the West Region.  Yes, you won the last four championships, but you don't get a regional.  But hey, the MidWorst got three!

https://d3baseball.com/playoffs/2021/playoff-central_2021

QuoteRegional Sites:

The High Point Rockers announced that Truist Point in High Point will be one of eight host sites host site for the NCAA Baseball Regionals set for May 27-31.  Greensboro College will serve as the host institution for the regional.

The seven other Regional sites are: Auburn, N.Y., Marietta, Ohio, Decatur, Ill., Hartford, Conn., Collegeville, Minn., Saint Paul, Minn. and Whitewater, Wisc.

[edit: man I wish there was a way to keep this thing from double spacing after a period].
My hope is that TLU. UTD and Trinity TX get shipped to three different regionals.

I would take the SCIAC champ going to a 4th. IMHO, Pacific is the weakest of the 5, but hey, this is the West Region!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 23, 2021, 05:08:54 PM
No West Region team submitted a bid to host this year.

That is why everyone is getting shipped.
Chapman played very well, especially the infield, as they defeated Cal Lu 8-2, including a 4-run 8th.

D3Baseball.com projected its bracket. IMHO, the Collegeville MN Region, hosted by St John's looks like it would be a great one.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 23, 2021, 05:22:25 PM
Background music over the PA system at Chapman prior to Chapman's post-game celebration of the SCIAC championship is "Feels Like the First Time."

Apropos and wishful, since Chapman won the 2019 SCIAC Regular season, the 2019 SCIAC Post season, and the 2019 D-3 National Championship.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 24, 2021, 01:14:17 PM
Thanks for the update on the hosting situation, Ralph.

Your wish (re splitting the three Texas schools to three regionals) has been granted (https://d3baseball.com/playoffs/2021/2021-playoff-field)!

UT-Dallas #2 seed in Collegeville, where Chapman is a #5
Trinity #1 seed in St. Paul
TLU #3 seed in Whitewater

I did see the comment in the d3baseball "here's who we think will be selected" story that the field at Northwestern St. Paul doesn't allow steel cleats.   It's a Turf field which I guess makes sense that far north.  Looks like a nice complex.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 24, 2021, 08:04:59 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 24, 2021, 01:14:17 PM
Thanks for the update on the hosting situation, Ralph.

Your wish (re splitting the three Texas schools to three regionals) has been granted (https://d3baseball.com/playoffs/2021/2021-playoff-field)!

UT-Dallas #2 seed in Collegeville, where Chapman is a #5
Trinity #1 seed in St. Paul
TLU #3 seed in Whitewater

I did see the comment in the d3baseball "here's who we think will be selected" story that the field at Northwestern St. Paul doesn't allow steel cleats.   It's a Turf field which I guess makes sense that far north.  Looks like a nice complex.
That was what was so enjoyable about TLU vs UTT in 2018 for us Texas and maybe West Region D3 teams. We know both of those squads very well. It was friendly rivalry played out at the highest level.

Despite the geographic dispersion, the West Region teams try hard to play each other in the non-conference games. I want the West Region teams to do well, because I think that the isolation detracts from the quality of ball played out here. There have been many seasons when the 9-team NWC and SCAIC were 6 & 7 teams deep , or the #1 pitcher on the #8 team in the ASC or SCAC could shut down the conference leader.

We just play good solid ball out here.

In watching the Chapman- Cal Lu game on Sunday, I was impressed with the Chapman infield. Pitching and defense win games, and I think that Chapman has it.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: BigPoppa on May 25, 2021, 12:12:06 PM
Minnesota is hosting two regionals just over an hour apart. I am hoping to catch a game or two at each venue this weekend (while working around my own baseball coaching schedule).
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 29, 2021, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 25, 2021, 12:12:06 PM
Minnesota is hosting two regionals just over an hour apart. I am hoping to catch a game or two at each venue this weekend (while working around my own baseball coaching schedule).

Hopefully you didn't spend any time watching Trinity give up 33 hits and 25 runs (all but 3 earned) on their way to a two-and-BBQ performance at St. Paul.  Not sure what happened towards the end of the season but whether it was better competition or something else they ended up losing six of nine despite scoring nearly nine runs per game during that period.   Pitching hasn't been a strong point this season and the trend continued this weekend. 

Good luck to the remaining West Region teams. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 31, 2021, 11:49:43 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 24, 2021, 01:14:17 PM
Thanks for the update on the hosting situation, Ralph.

Your wish (re splitting the three Texas schools to three regionals) has been granted (https://d3baseball.com/playoffs/2021/2021-playoff-field)!

UT-Dallas #2 seed in Collegeville, ( went 1-2. Beat Chapman; lost to Pacific; lost to Chapman)

where Chapman is a #5 (went 2-2. Lost to TLU; beat Scranton; beat UTD; lost to Tommies)

Trinity #1 seed in St. Paul (2 and BBQ; JHU and Aurora, neither team is a slouch)

TLU #3 seed in Whitewater (went 2-2 ; Lost to PSU-Harrisburg (huh?), beat Adrian; beat Luther; Lost to UWW)


I did see the comment in the d3baseball "here's who we think will be selected" story that the field at Northwestern St. Paul doesn't allow steel cleats.   It's a Turf field which I guess makes sense that far north.  Looks like a nice complex.

Pacific was the dark horse. A #4 seed, they went 3-2 beating York PA, beat UTD; beat Tommies; lost to Tommies and lost to Tommies.

No West Region team makes it this year. Shucks!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on June 01, 2021, 12:38:13 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 29, 2021, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 25, 2021, 12:12:06 PM
Minnesota is hosting two regionals just over an hour apart. I am hoping to catch a game or two at each venue this weekend (while working around my own baseball coaching schedule).

Hopefully you didn't spend any time watching Trinity give up 33 hits and 25 runs (all but 3 earned) on their way to a two-and-BBQ performance at St. Paul.  Not sure what happened towards the end of the season but whether it was better competition or something else they ended up losing six of nine despite scoring nearly nine runs per game during that period.   Pitching hasn't been a strong point this season and the trend continued this weekend. 

Good luck to the remaining West Region teams.

Pitching and defense along with some timely hitting win tournaments. Trinity had neither good defense nor good pitching all year and that was exposed during their conference tournament (they lost) and regional. They had a couple of guys who could swing it, but that is not going to work giving up 25 runs over two games. I only watched a few innings here and there during the season but I was a bit skeptical of their high ranking by what I saw. Obviously the COVID year prevented many of the top national teams to get out of conference games which hurt the ability of observers (coaches voting) to get a real read on all of the programs. Best of luck to the teams moving on the CWS, and looking forward to a full non COVID influenced season next year. Competition should he high given the pool of talent carrying over into next year so the best teams should be able to attract D1 level pitching, which should make for an interesting year next year. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 05, 2021, 07:41:43 PM
The Tommies (the team that won the Collegeville MN Regional where 3 West Region teams were sent) is now 2-0. They beat Adrian yesterday (7-5) and
WashStL on a walk-off 2-out run scoring double 8-7 in the bottom of the 12th.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 07, 2021, 03:01:51 PM
Can't really say I'm excited to see a team going to D1 next year playing for a D3 national championship.   Go Salisbury!
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: cubs on June 07, 2021, 11:30:55 PM
Was there another school that made the move from D3 to D1 for baseball in the last 10-15 years, or am I just imagining things?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 08, 2021, 07:48:27 AM
Quote from: cubs on June 07, 2021, 11:30:55 PM
Was there another school that made the move from D3 to D1 for baseball in the last 10-15 years, or am I just imagining things?

I don't remember anything in that timeframe.   It is very unusual for a school to go straight from D3 to D1 and in fact the NCAA had to grant them special dispensation to support St. Thomas (MN) making a two-division leap in a reduced timeframe.   According to this AP article (https://apnews.com/article/ea70cdda2c2f29109bffcccb08aaf23a) UST will be the first school to make a two-division leap since Buffalo in 1993.

I could see UT-Tyler, which had a strong D3 baseball program and just went D2 a couple of years ago, eventually making the leap to D1. 
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: cubs on June 08, 2021, 11:02:57 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on June 08, 2021, 07:48:27 AM
Quote from: cubs on June 07, 2021, 11:30:55 PM
Was there another school that made the move from D3 to D1 for baseball in the last 10-15 years, or am I just imagining things?

I don't remember anything in that timeframe.   It is very unusual for a school to go straight from D3 to D1 and in fact the NCAA had to grant them special dispensation to support St. Thomas (MN) making a two-division leap in a reduced timeframe.   According to this AP article (https://apnews.com/article/ea70cdda2c2f29109bffcccb08aaf23a) UST will be the first school to make a two-division leap since Buffalo in 1993.

I could see UT-Tyler, which had a strong D3 baseball program and just went D2 a couple of years ago, eventually making the leap to D1.
Thanks Ron!  UT-Tyler was who I was thinking of, but I forgot they "only" jumped to D2, not D1.

So did you pull for Texas Lutheran to knock them off in the 2018 Championship since they were going to D2?   ;D
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 08, 2021, 11:27:31 AM
Of course.  I'm a Trinity(TX) guy so had to rep the fellow SCAC member ... plus the D3>D2 situation  ;D
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2022, 12:44:59 AM
Over the weekend...

Cal Lutheran went 4-0 versus Puget and Whitworth (x3)
This weekend, they travel to Demorest GA for CNU, B-SC and Piedmont. That will be a great series.

Willamette split with ETBU and swept Centenary.

TLU lost twice to PLU; a 3rd game was canceled due to weather.

Pacific when 2-1 vs Oxy.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jim Dixon on February 09, 2022, 08:54:24 AM
In the SCIAC -NWC crossover weekend, the top teams did okay. Everyone is off to a good start.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 24, 2022, 02:04:13 PM
The season is winding down. It is Tourney time in the Northwest Conference.

Linfield plays Pacific today.

In the NWC, Lewis and Clark and Whitman finished tied for 7th in a 9-team conference with 11-13 records, 3 games behind 1st place.
Talk about a tight conference!

The NWC Pool A is my dark horse for the "West Regionals".
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 24, 2022, 10:56:28 PM
In the SCIAC, Chapman controls its destiny with series against P-P and La Verne in the next 2 weekends.

Those are the 3 leading teams in the conference.

Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 28, 2022, 12:32:27 PM
First Regional Rankings are out (sort of) and a few items of interest...

Cal Lu
ETBU
La Verne
Pomona
TX Lutheran
UT-Dallas
Trinity

*For whatever reason, the first release is simply in alphabetical order.

Chapman is not present as of now, but they really raise their stock by winning their next two series against Pomona and La Verne.

Pacific has already punched their ticket, but are not ranked.

I would figure the SCIAC gets two in, SCAC gets two in, the ASC gets one, and NWC gets one (Pacific). Who knows what matchups would be as I am not sure about conference teams being paired up in a Regional. Could be NWC at SCIAC (two team Regional) and a flight for one SCIAC team headed to TX with the other three??? Anyone have more insight on that?
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 29, 2022, 01:54:48 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 28, 2022, 12:32:27 PM
First Regional Rankings are out (sort of) and a few items of interest...

Cal Lu
ETBU
La Verne
Pomona
TX Lutheran
UT-Dallas
Trinity

*For whatever reason, the first release is simply in alphabetical order.

Chapman is not present as of now, but they really raise their stock by winning their next two series against Pomona and La Verne.

Pacific has already punched their ticket, but are not ranked.

I would figure the SCIAC gets two in, SCAC gets two in, the ASC gets one, and NWC gets one (Pacific). Who knows what matchups would be as I am not sure about conference teams being paired up in a Regional. Could be NWC at SCIAC (two team Regional) and a flight for one SCIAC team headed to TX with the other three??? Anyone have more insight on that?
Logical for the fewest flights.

Then the 2 regionals pair up for the Super Regional.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 29, 2022, 02:05:01 PM
Pacific is my darkhorse out of Region 10.

They were regular season champs but had to win 2 on the last to earn the Pool A.
The Northwest Conference was extremely balanced. Pacific was first (14-10). The two teams tied for 7th had 11-13 records, just 3 Games Behind!

In the Regional last year, Pacific was just one out away from the 2021 World Series against the eventual runner-up (St Thomas), I believe the conference is balanced and strong.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2022, 11:34:59 PM
Regional rankings #2

1   Trinity (TX)   28-8   29-8
2   La Verne   28-6-1   29-7-1
3   Chapman   28-9   28-9
4   Pomona-Pitzer   26-8   26-8
5   East Tex. Baptist   28-11   28-11
6   Texas-Dallas   28-12   28-12
7   Cal Lutheran   24-13   24-13

I am skeptical of getting more than 1 -2 Pool C bids out of this region.

Maybe Trinity, if they lose in the tourney, and/or the SCIAC runnerup.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 08, 2023, 02:41:52 PM
Region 10 seems either down or incredibly balanced in 2023.
We may do well to get 1 Pool C bid, probably from the SCIAC.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 08, 2023, 02:42:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 08, 2023, 02:41:52 PM
Region 10 seems either down or incredibly balanced in 2023.
We may do well to get 1 Pool C bid, probably from the SCIAC.
Of course I was wrong in 2022.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 08, 2023, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 08, 2023, 02:41:52 PM
Region 10 seems either down or incredibly balanced in 2023.
We may do well to get 1 Pool C bid, probably from the SCIAC.

I think, which is not my strongest attribute, that Pacific should be in a good spot for a Pool C, but teams like La Verne, CMS, and Chapman all have the chance to add more regionally ranked wins to their resume. What could really hose a team like Pacific is Chapman or Cal Lu winning the SCIAC tourney.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: 108 Stitches on May 09, 2023, 11:03:53 AM
I think it is down, SCAC is weak and is the first time I can remember that Trinity has not been ranked in top 25 as well as only TLU in regional rankings.
As we all know it is about getting hot around the playoffs so rankings don't mean anything once regionals start.
Good luck to the SCIAC teams in their conference tournament.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 10, 2023, 09:48:15 PM
Looking at the Regional Rankings for teams that have not clinched a spot yet...

ULV: 5 wins and 7 losses against regionally ranked teams. They have the chance to add to each total this weekend.

CMS: 5 wins and 3 losses against regionally ranked teams. They also have the chance to add to their totals this weekend.

Pacific: 3-3 against Regionally Ranked teams with no way to improve. I feel "pretty good" about their position but only have 6 results against RR teams could bite them after this weekend.

Chapman: 9 wins and 8 losses against regionally ranked teams. Having a total of 17 results, with more ahead this weekend could really help them if they make a deep run this weekend in the SCIAC tourney.

TLU: 5 wins and 8 losses against regionally ranked teams. I think they are done since they are so low in the rankings right now.

Lewis & Clark clinched a spot already, but them dropping out of the RR this week hurts a few teams, especially Pacific.

Of course, none of this is accurate if it is still "Once ranked, always ranked". If that is the case, I'll just wait to see what happens.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 12, 2023, 01:56:41 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 10, 2023, 09:48:15 PM
Looking at the Regional Rankings for teams that have not clinched a spot yet...

ULV: 5 wins and 7 losses against regionally ranked teams. They have the chance to add to each total this weekend.

CMS: 5 wins and 3 losses against regionally ranked teams. They also have the chance to add to their totals this weekend.

Pacific: 3-3 against Regionally Ranked teams with no way to improve. I feel "pretty good" about their position but only have 6 results against RR teams could bite them after this weekend.

Chapman: 9 wins and 8 losses against regionally ranked teams. Having a total of 17 results, with more ahead this weekend could really help them if they make a deep run this weekend in the SCIAC tourney.

TLU: 5 wins and 8 losses against regionally ranked teams. I think they are done since they are so low in the rankings right now.

Lewis & Clark clinched a spot already, but them dropping out of the RR this week hurts a few teams, especially Pacific.

Of course, none of this is accurate if it is still "Once ranked, always ranked". If that is the case, I'll just wait to see what happens.

Listened to the Podcast about d3 baseball yesterday and it seems like a coach in the West voiced frustration over Lewis & Clark dropping out of the rankings. The frustration comes from the fact that it improves the overall body for CMS as L&C took 2/3 from CMS.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: Jack Parkman on May 12, 2023, 02:01:05 PM
Interesting start to the SCIAC tourney with both lower seeds winning their opening game. La Verne (#4 in the West) and CMS (#2 in the West) will play today to extend their season. ULV will be in major trouble if they drop this one.

CMS started a guy with 9 innings on the year and then went to another starter out of the pen. Not sure what that thought process is, but I am really curious to see how today ends up with CMS likely throwing their ace and ULV throwing the pitcher of the year.
Title: Re: BB: Top Teams in West Region
Post by: DickWhitman on June 14, 2023, 05:33:14 PM
I'm new to following the SCIAC and west region. I've enjoyed reading through this thread. Are there any suggestions on podcasts or other sources of info on the region and topic?