2014 D3 Season: National Perspective

Started by PaulNewman, August 24, 2014, 02:13:42 PM

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Midwest Soccer

Actually, every one of those teams wins in November, it's the ones who win in December that are hard to find. By your list, since 2009, only 3 of those teams have won in December (and Williams has had the most opportunities aside from Messiah).


Also, Calvin goes to the national title game in '09, then elite 8 in '10, then national title game again in '11 and they don't make your list?

Flying Weasel

Quote from: Midwest Soccer on November 25, 2014, 04:15:19 PM
Yep they are all forwards except Sam Justice, a centerback. I did that based on who the most recent recipients have been. 2010 when Geoff Pezon won it was the last time a non-forward won it but he put up stats like he was a forward.

I never think a goalie should get the National Player of the Year award...that  may be just me but I'm pretty adamant about that.

If you go by midfielders I think Jack Thompson and Brian Ramirez are both very worthy candidates but I don't know how likely they are to be selected.

I just threw those names out there to get the conversation started, didn't have any ranking behind them or anything.

Returning to the POY conversation . . .  To be a candidate for POY, you have to be 1st Team All-American, and the All-American teams are formed from the 1st Team All-Region.  As I understand it, there is only one nomination period and one voting period from which both All-Regional and All-American teams formed.  No idea how it all works.  The nomination period this year was 11/3 - 11/13 (before the NCAA tournament) and the voting was 11/19 - 11/24 which means performance through the NCAA quarterfinals can be taken into account in voting if the player had been nominated.  Not sure when the POY voting takes place (and that's a vote within the NSCAA All-American committee only, not the full membership), but even if it is after the Final Four, a good Final Four performance could only help if you already made 1st Team All-American.

As to the chance of a Messiah player being named POY.  Highly doubtful.  Depending on the when the voting takes place, not making the Final Four could hurt them, but I also think the vote-splitting effect when you have multiple plausible candidates (Payne, Jack Thompson, and Brian Ramirez) is going against them.  And there are certainly other worthy candidates out there, many having already been mentioned.  Trying to figure out NSCAA selections is tricky.  The process has its share of politics, committee members showing preference for their players and their regions players, and previous recognition is huge.  So, I'll just wait and see.  The one comment I will make is that if Jack Thompson graduates without a single 1st Team AA nod, that's incredible.  Similarly for Brian Ramirez.  But there are 400+ teams, and 8000+ players, so percentage-wise, there's little difference between being named to the 1st or 3rd team.  Either way you are recognized as being one of the top 0.5% of players.

KnightFalcon

Quote from: Nutmeg on November 25, 2014, 11:41:42 PM
Quote from: NEPitch62 on November 25, 2014, 10:36:45 PM
I just want to jump into the national discussion now that the Jumbos made it to the final four.  I'm not much of an xx and oo's guy but I do know when I see a team that has all the parts necessary to put together a run to the end.  The Jumbos were undefeated in conference play had the unfortunate first round loss to Conn College but came together in the tournament. 

Messiah was, in my first hand opinion, probably the most technically sound team I have ever seen and the Jumbos neutralized their strengths.  Lucky early goal or not, the Jumbos won that game on athleticism and heart.

That was not a lucky goal....it was early... a blast from 25 yards out into the upper 90!  A thing of beauty.....I assume your reference to luck is because of how early it happened...I agree with your take on the game...
Agree - not a lucky goal. I think the Messiah coach put it best ... "a moment of quality".

NEPitch62

Also agree - the Kayne goal was a thing of beauty and we had the good fortune of scoring very early and getting on the board first.

lastguyoffthebench

Quote from: Mr.Right on November 26, 2014, 12:02:51 AM
Here is a more reasonable list- not one where "I like teams better than others so I will rank them higher" or "I have never seen these teams play so I will rank them anyway" or "This team does not win in November but I enjoy the way I have heard they play"

2009-present
1. Messiah
2. Loras
3. OWU
4. Williams
5. RUC
6. Oneonta
7. Amherst
8. Trinity TX

Very interesting list...  in 2009 Rutgers-Camden played one of the more bizarre out of conference schedules:

Calvin  18-5-3
CMU    16-3-1
Noke   12-6-4
York    17-1-5
SIT     15-3-2
MSU    17-2-2


Would would be your last two in and first two out in a top 10 list; York, Calvin, SIT, SLU, Ohio Northern, Wheaton, MSU?

  9) Calvin (could be higher)
10) York
-------------
11) Ohio Northern/MSU
13) SLU/Wheaton/SIT


lastguyoffthebench

Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 26, 2014, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: Midwest Soccer on November 25, 2014, 04:15:19 PM
Yep they are all forwards except Sam Justice, a centerback. I did that based on who the most recent recipients have been. 2010 when Geoff Pezon won it was the last time a non-forward won it but he put up stats like he was a forward.

I never think a goalie should get the National Player of the Year award...that  may be just me but I'm pretty adamant about that.

If you go by midfielders I think Jack Thompson and Brian Ramirez are both very worthy candidates but I don't know how likely they are to be selected.

I just threw those names out there to get the conversation started, didn't have any ranking behind them or anything.

Returning to the POY conversation . . .  To be a candidate for POY, you have to be 1st Team All-American, and the All-American teams are formed from the 1st Team All-Region.  As I understand it, there is only one nomination period and one voting period from which both All-Regional and All-American teams formed.  No idea how it all works.  The nomination period this year was 11/3 - 11/13 (before the NCAA tournament) and the voting was 11/19 - 11/24 which means performance through the NCAA quarterfinals can be taken into account in voting if the player had been nominated.  Not sure when the POY voting takes place (and that's a vote within the NSCAA All-American committee only, not the full membership), but even if it is after the Final Four, a good Final Four performance could only help if you already made 1st Team All-American.

As to the chance of a Messiah player being named POY.  Highly doubtful.  Depending on the when the voting takes place, not making the Final Four could hurt them, but I also think the vote-splitting effect when you have multiple plausible candidates (Payne, Jack Thompson, and Brian Ramirez) is going against them.  And there are certainly other worthy candidates out there, many having already been mentioned.  Trying to figure out NSCAA selections is tricky.  The process has its share of politics, committee members showing preference for their players and their regions players, and previous recognition is huge.  So, I'll just wait and see.  The one comment I will make is that if Jack Thompson graduates without a single 1st Team AA nod, that's incredible.  Similarly for Brian Ramirez.  But there are 400+ teams, and 8000+ players, so percentage-wise, there's little difference between being named to the 1st or 3rd team.  Either way you are recognized as being one of the top 0.5% of players.

All signs are pointing to Golz as POY.    Bloecher would be my 2nd choice if they were to make the title game.

Brother Flounder

Quote from: NEPitch62 on November 26, 2014, 09:35:28 AM
Also agree - the Kayne goal was a thing of beauty and we had the good fortune of scoring very early and getting on the board first.

That's what I thought you meant...that the timing of the goal was beneficial not the type of goal......

PaulNewman

I would go with a "moment of good fortune" (a first minute clearance that lands at his feet) that led to a "moment of quality" (taking advantage and finishing with skill).

Mr.Right

Last Guy I just realized I did overlook Calvin and they should be #5 ahead OF RUC,Amherst,Trinity..etc

I like your last 2 in as York and Calvin should be in there.

Last 2 out would be MSU and Ohio Northern

I believe Stevens peaked in 2008 but they are right there

KICKIN95

Is the goal on video somewhere?  I would like to see it.
Master of all things "DuHawk"

convict

Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 26, 2014, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: Midwest Soccer on November 25, 2014, 04:15:19 PM
Yep they are all forwards except Sam Justice, a centerback. I did that based on who the most recent recipients have been. 2010 when Geoff Pezon won it was the last time a non-forward won it but he put up stats like he was a forward.

I never think a goalie should get the National Player of the Year award...that  may be just me but I'm pretty adamant about that.

If you go by midfielders I think Jack Thompson and Brian Ramirez are both very worthy candidates but I don't know how likely they are to be selected.

I just threw those names out there to get the conversation started, didn't have any ranking behind them or anything.

Returning to the POY conversation . . .  To be a candidate for POY, you have to be 1st Team All-American, and the All-American teams are formed from the 1st Team All-Region.  As I understand it, there is only one nomination period and one voting period from which both All-Regional and All-American teams formed.  No idea how it all works.  The nomination period this year was 11/3 - 11/13 (before the NCAA tournament) and the voting was 11/19 - 11/24 which means performance through the NCAA quarterfinals can be taken into account in voting if the player had been nominated.  Not sure when the POY voting takes place (and that's a vote within the NSCAA All-American committee only, not the full membership), but even if it is after the Final Four, a good Final Four performance could only help if you already made 1st Team All-American.

As to the chance of a Messiah player being named POY.  Highly doubtful.  Depending on the when the voting takes place, not making the Final Four could hurt them, but I also think the vote-splitting effect when you have multiple plausible candidates (Payne, Jack Thompson, and Brian Ramirez) is going against them.  And there are certainly other worthy candidates out there, many having already been mentioned.  Trying to figure out NSCAA selections is tricky.  The process has its share of politics, committee members showing preference for their players and their regions players, and previous recognition is huge.  So, I'll just wait and see.  The one comment I will make is that if Jack Thompson graduates without a single 1st Team AA nod, that's incredible.  Similarly for Brian Ramirez.  But there are 400+ teams, and 8000+ players, so percentage-wise, there's little difference between being named to the 1st or 3rd team.  Either way you are recognized as being one of the top 0.5% of players.
It's been a few years since I have part of the voting procedure so I don't remember it exactly perfect. Was an assistant. I was a head juco coach though so was more involved in that. Think it was voting for the players you played against that year. Would have to note on top of that being the Nscaa stuff the school would have to be a member. I'm also remembering that if you were to play a non d3 school it can hurt your chances- they can't vote for you, or you for them but the total games are still the same.

Flying Weasel

Quote from: KICKIN95 on November 26, 2014, 12:11:38 PM
Is the goal on video somewhere?  I would like to see it.

I'm sure Messiah has it, but they're not going to be posting an opponent's goal to their YouTube channel!  Didn't take note if anyone from Tufts was there to video tape the game, but given the goal hasn't surfaced on their website or elsewhere, I'll assume they didn't have anyone on-site video taping.  That leaves Muhlenberg, and not sure they even recorded the games as they streamed the video, and even if they did, they have no incentive put the time and effort in to make a clip of the goal and post it.  It might just be a goal that will only live on in the memories of those who were there to see it--like all goals back in the day!

Nutmeg

#1992
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 26, 2014, 01:46:49 PM
Quote from: KICKIN95 on November 26, 2014, 12:11:38 PM
Is the goal on video somewhere?  I would like to see it.

I'm sure Messiah has it, but they're not going to be posting an opponent's goal to their YouTube channel!  Didn't take note if anyone from Tufts was there to video tape the game, but given the goal hasn't surfaced on their website or elsewhere, I'll assume they didn't have anyone on-site video taping.  That leaves Muhlenberg, and not sure they even recorded the games as they streamed the video, and even if they did, they have no incentive put the time and effort in to make a clip of the goal and post it.  It might just be a goal that will only live on in the memories of those who were there to see it--like all goals back in the day!

I would like to see the "Giant Slayer" goal too. I saw it live on video but it was such a quick blast that it's fading in memory. Can one purchase the game video from the NCAA once the tournament is over, and then post it?

convict

Doesn't most every team video anyways? Especially in the NCAA tournament. With the roster game max of 22 most teams at this level have to "cut" a few players for the games. They still bring them. We always had every game taped for im guessing the last ten years as a program. Be a nice goal to see!

Brother Flounder

Happy Thanksgiving to all you knuckleheads.... :o