FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

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jknezek

Quote from: tigerFanAlso2 on May 18, 2016, 10:23:21 AM
Pat

I just assumed the third best team in the WIAC would have it's way with a team from the ODAC, maybe I'm not giving ODAC enough credit but I think I'm being realistic.


I think Pat's point is UWP may not be the third best team in the WIAC in 2017. Not that the third best team in the WIAC wouldn't handle a top half team in the ODAC. And with H-SC having 9 conference losses in the last 4 years it's hard to guarantee H-SC anything better than top half lately. One outright championship, one nasty tie breaking AQ, and 2 4-3 conference seasons isn't the same strength we saw from 2007-2011. Still more consistent than anyone else, of course, but not as dominant.

HSCTiger fan

Quote from: jknezek on May 18, 2016, 10:45:28 AM
Quote from: tigerFanAlso2 on May 18, 2016, 10:23:21 AM
Pat

I just assumed the third best team in the WIAC would have it's way with a team from the ODAC, maybe I'm not giving ODAC enough credit but I think I'm being realistic.


I think Pat's point is UWP may not be the third best team in the WIAC in 2017. Not that the third best team in the WIAC wouldn't handle a top half team in the ODAC. And with H-SC having 9 conference losses in the last 4 years it's hard to guarantee H-SC anything better than top half lately. One outright championship, one nasty tie breaking AQ, and 2 4-3 conference seasons isn't the same strength we saw from 2007-2011. Still more consistent than anyone else, of course, but not as dominant.

HSC has won 28 games in the last 4 years with 2 ODAC championships.  Only Guilford has won as many games and they play as you pointed out cupcakes. If HSC played terrible teams in OOC like GC they have 32 wins.  Guilford also do not have an ODAC title. HSC has been in the title hunt going into the last 2 games every year since 2006. In 2014 they beat both GC and EH - injuries played a big role in their late season losses. The tie breaker is not nasty it's the rule. HSC went 2-1 against top 3. GC went 2-1 and lost to HSC.  EH and BC both went 1-2.  HSC won the 2014 ODAC on the field not by a coin flip. No apologies. 

I sure hope HSC plays in Wisconsin in 2018. Nothing like a good road trip.
Hampden Sydney College
ODAC Champions 77, 82, 83, 87, 07, 09, 11, 13, 14
NCAA Playoffs - 77, 07, 09, 10, 11, 13, 14
The "Game" 60 wins and counting...
11/18/2018 Wally referred to me as Chief and admitted "I don't know about that!"

HSCTiger fan

Quote from: jknezek on May 17, 2016, 07:19:58 PM
Quote from: hasanova on May 17, 2016, 05:54:10 PM
Brevard has actually played in the NCAA DII South Atlantic Conference (Catawba, Mars Hill, Lenoir-Rhyne, Carson-Newman, Wingate), but the assertion they suck probably still holds true.


Good catch. +K

Brevaard has had 1 win in their last 22 games. That is if they can count a win against The College of Faith!

Funny article: 

http://nypost.com/2015/11/29/the-shady-college-football-team-that-gets-paid-to-lose-games/
Hampden Sydney College
ODAC Champions 77, 82, 83, 87, 07, 09, 11, 13, 14
NCAA Playoffs - 77, 07, 09, 10, 11, 13, 14
The "Game" 60 wins and counting...
11/18/2018 Wally referred to me as Chief and admitted "I don't know about that!"

jknezek

Quote from: HSCTiger fan on May 18, 2016, 01:25:14 PM

HSC has won 28 games in the last 4 years with 2 ODAC championships.  Only Guilford has won as many games and they play as you pointed out cupcakes. If HSC played terrible teams in OOC like GC they have 32 wins.  Guilford also do not have an ODAC title. HSC has been in the title hunt going into the last 2 games every year since 2006. In 2014 they beat both GC and EH - injuries played a big role in their late season losses. The tie breaker is not nasty it's the rule. HSC went 2-1 against top 3. GC went 2-1 and lost to HSC.  EH and BC both went 1-2.  HSC won the 2014 ODAC on the field not by a coin flip. No apologies. 

I sure hope HSC plays in Wisconsin in 2018. Nothing like a good road trip.

Touchy touchy. When comparing where a team falls in the ODAC, no point in looking at OOC games. H-SC has fallen off a bit in the last 4 years compared to the 4 before in ODAC play. Still the most consistent top dog in the conference (the only other contender is W&L, and over the same 4 and 8 year span W&L has NOT been consistent). But, H-SC has lost more conference games in the last 4 years than in the 4 before. That's a fact.

4-3
5-2
6-1
4-3

Is not as good as:

5-1
5-1
6-0
4-2

And yes, HSC got the title in 2014, but it wasn't pretty. Doesn't need to be, and HSC has every right to claim the title, the ODAC championship list confirms they were the champions, but for those of us that follow these things it is worth considering. You don't take the title away, it is absolutely HSC's in a way Alabama only wishes they had won however many National Titles they've dreamed up, but winning in a 3 way tie is not the same as going 6-0 or 7-0 when considering league dominance.

The Tigers aren't as dominant in the ODAC over the last 4 years as the 4 before. I don't consider them a lock to finish first or second. I do consider them a lock to finish in the top half of the conference. As a fan, your mileage may vary, but the facts are pretty clear. A small drop off of just over 1 conference loss per year, odd because we added a Shenandoah team to the league that hasn't managed to go above 3-4 in league play. So arguably the league got watered down, but H-SC has basically averaged an extra loss over the 4 years before Shenandoah entered the ODAC.

tigerFanAlso2

Jk

No disagreement. The record speaks for itself. I simply stated the UWP game is a certain loss, Pat said maybe not.
The way people regard the WIAC, I assume it's last place team could/should beat the ODAC's best. and for the record, by no means have I ever considered HSC to be dominant, hell we can't even beat RMC on a regular basis and they pretty much suck.

HSCTiger fan

I'm not being touchy jk. As you said facts are facts. 3 ODAC championships in 5 years is as dominant as any team has been in the ODAC in many years.
Hampden Sydney College
ODAC Champions 77, 82, 83, 87, 07, 09, 11, 13, 14
NCAA Playoffs - 77, 07, 09, 10, 11, 13, 14
The "Game" 60 wins and counting...
11/18/2018 Wally referred to me as Chief and admitted "I don't know about that!"

jknezek

Quote from: HSCTiger fan on May 18, 2016, 05:23:59 PM
I'm not being touchy jk. As you said facts are facts. 3 ODAC championships in 5 years is as dominant as any team has been in the ODAC in many years.

Fair enough. Time frames are important. The last 4 years? Not as dominant as the 4 before in my opinion. So I guess it's all how you look at it. 4-3 2012, 6-1 2013, 5-2 2014, 4-3 2015 is not a 4 year period I'd be talking about as most of a "dominant" 5 year span. I'd call 2007 through 2011 dominant. One 4-2, two 5-1, and two 6-0. That's domination... outside of the Bwater years.

But it's all splitting hairs as HSC has been the most successful team in the conference for almost 15 years. No argument about that. The only reason to pursue this semantic trap is because it is May and it's been a long time since football and still too far to go before it starts again!

jknezek

Quote from: tigerFanAlso2 on May 18, 2016, 04:46:08 PM
Jk

No disagreement. The record speaks for itself. I simply stated the UWP game is a certain loss, Pat said maybe not.
The way people regard the WIAC, I assume it's last place team could/should beat the ODAC's best. and for the record, by no means have I ever considered HSC to be dominant, hell we can't even beat RMC on a regular basis and they pretty much suck.

Nah. UWEC has been pretty bad for the last 3 years. UW-LC and UW Stout aren't great shakes either. But I do think UWW and UWO the last few years absolutely bury the ODAC champion. UWP recently probably wins 8 of 10. UWSP and UWRF might be pretty good games. The next three I'd give the edge to the ODAC champion. Of course it all depends on the champion and the year. Some of the H-SC teams that were more complete might compete with UWP. I think W&L's teams would struggle because they are so one dimensional. A good d-line year at UWSP or UWRF would probably contain the Generals.

tigerFanAlso2

Jk

If that is true than the WIAC is not as good as advertised. They are the best D3 conference in the country, certainly no team from the lowly ranked ODAC could even begin to compete, right ?

jknezek

Quote from: tigerFanAlso2 on May 19, 2016, 12:16:03 PM
Jk

If that is true than the WIAC is not as good as advertised. They are the best D3 conference in the country, certainly no team from the lowly ranked ODAC could even begin to compete, right ?

I'm sensing the sarcasm, but I'm going to say I don't think those two things are necessarily true. Nor do I think the ODAC is all that lowly. Personally I think the ODAC is in the top half of all DIII conferences, even if we haven't had a nationally competitive team at the top for a while.

If you go by the Kickoff Rankings last year, UWEC was expected to go 0-10, and did, but were still considered the 101st best team in the country. Not many conferences can say their worst member, expected to lose every game they play, is comfortably inside the 50% mark of all teams.

By Kickoff's measure, UWEC would have finished 4-4 against ODAC teams. That might be a little skewed since W&L started the season ranked 118th, 5th in the ODAC and a presumed loss to UWEC, but you could probably drop Bridgewater's 87th ranking down below UWEC in the end netting out the same record.

Kickoff gave UWP a 33rd ranking preseason, expected 7-3, 5-2. They went 8-2, 5-2, finished third in the WIAC so that preseason looks pretty accurate. A preseason Guilford at 30 should have given UWP a run for their money, as Guilford's 9-1, 6-1 was also pretty accurate. The Quakers just got a little unlucky versus W&L, and again that the team they got unlucky against didn't slip up.

Regardless, I think the third team in the WIAC versus the best team in the ODAC would be a very entertaining match up. I'm just not sure there is a guarantee UWP and HSC will meet those parameters in 2017.

wally_wabash

Quote from: tigerFanAlso2 on May 19, 2016, 12:16:03 PM
Jk

If that is true than the WIAC is not as good as advertised. They are the best D3 conference in the country, certainly no team from the lowly ranked ODAC could even begin to compete, right ?

I can't tell if this is facetious or not.  Eau Claire is a lousy team that happens to live in the same league as UWW and UWO.  They play in the best league, but they're not good.  HSC shouldn't have any trouble with Eau Claire.  They may have trouble with Platteville, but that's a ways down the road still.  And it doesn't have anything to do with what league the teams play in.  Platteville isn't good because they play in the WIAC.  They're good because they have good players and good coaches.  They'd be good in the CCIW, the LL, the MWC, or even the ODAC.  Y'all get way too caught up in that conference ranking list. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

tigerFanAlso2

Yep, I'm being a little sarcastic.

I didn't think the Linfield team HSC played was that much better and I didn't think the Wabash team in 2014 team was that much better, however Wabash was a lot better than HSC in 2015. So I've seen a pretty good HSC team play against some pretty damn good competition and hold their own, but HSC will come up with that type of talent once in a blue moon where as Linfield, and even Wabash recently, are good every year.


HSCTiger fan

A quick shout out to CW Clemmons HSC 05. This week Clemmons was names to HSC's HOF!

http://hscathletics.com/general/2015-16/releases/20160517fmrriu
Hampden Sydney College
ODAC Champions 77, 82, 83, 87, 07, 09, 11, 13, 14
NCAA Playoffs - 77, 07, 09, 10, 11, 13, 14
The "Game" 60 wins and counting...
11/18/2018 Wally referred to me as Chief and admitted "I don't know about that!"

jknezek

As I suspected, W&L swept the Men's, Women's, and overall Commissioner's Cup. 11 ODAC championships this year.

http://generalssports.com/information/Inside_Athletics/sports_information/2015-16_Releases/2015-16_Commissioner-s_Cup

I suspect the men's rating of .895 or 45.5 out of 51 points, is close to a record. With the exception of basketball, the men were unbelievable across the ODAC sports. I know the ODAC is generally very good at basketball, but I really don't understand why W&L can't find the athletes in that sport to compete. Seems odd that men's basketball pretty much always significantly under performs the rest of the athletic department.

tigerFanAlso2

jk

Congrats. Great year for the Generals. B'ball in the odac is down, at least in my opinion, which makes it even more concerning why W&L struggles in that sport. Personally I look forward to the day W&L begins to struggle a little in football !!!!