2014 D3 Season: National Perspective

Started by PaulNewman, August 24, 2014, 02:13:42 PM

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lastguyoffthebench



Quote from: PickettStreetParty on December 30, 2014, 03:33:56 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 30, 2014, 07:59:19 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on December 29, 2014, 02:17:25 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 18, 2014, 08:50:36 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 18, 2014, 04:27:16 PM
Quote from: Midwest Soccer on December 18, 2014, 03:40:04 PM
After much speculation about who would get National POY, it goes to Jeremy Payne for the 2nd time in his Messiah Career. Probably the most deserving (in my opinion), I didn't think his award in 2012 was as warranted as only a sophomore but he definitely earned it this year.

Travis Vegter was my pick since the middle of the year. Congrats Jeremy Payne. I wonder how many people have won this award twice in their careers?!

*Jack Thompson didn't make 1st team All-Region, but I think many of us would agree he was the catalyst for the team. I'm nominating Thompson for d3boards.com men's soccer national player of the year!

Brian Ramirez wasn't too shabby either as far as a catalyst goes.....







Ramirez is a great player but a step slow

Mr.Right,

The Phila Union brought 30 college players of their choice to their invitation only Pro-Combine two weeks ago.  Just a few of those invited were D3 players (Ramirez was one of them).  I suppose they went out of their way to select the one player who is "a step slow" for D3.  Mr.Right…give me a break.  I know you think your opinion is always right and always above everyone else's…but I'm going with the Union's opinion on this one.  They obviously know something you don't.

Do your homework, research the data, understand the facts before you start dissing players and coaches…as you so love to do on this site.







I said Ramirez is a great player. One slight might be that he is not a speedster. If your "data" is telling you that Ramirez is blazing fast then you need to REBOOT. Take off your Messiah shaded glasses and learn even the best players have a weakness or two. It is not uncommon for MLS teams to invite local D3 players to their "invitation" only combine. Ramirez IS NOT A MLS PLAYER AND WILL NOT SEE A MINUTE OF 1ST TEAM ACTION. At best he is a reserve team player as he DOES NOT HAVE THE SPEED TO PLAY IN MLS. 
No doubt Ramirez and Thompson should have been A.A. first team selections. And I think Ramirez has the technical and play making ability to play in the MLS. Speed may be in issue but speed isnt as important as you would think playing in the middle. Harrison Shipp of the Chicago Fire was up for Rookie of the year and was a Herman Trophy finalist. I wouldnt say he has blazing speed.

I agree that Ramirez probably wont see a minute of MLS time but you never know. I think he was one of the top 8 players in Div III. Div III guys just dont get looks like others do so he really has to show something at the combine, which he is more than capable of doing.


A top 8 player in D3 won't cut it, not even for the USL Pro level. 

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Do you attend any PDL games in the summer, Mr. Right?    I follow twitter often and the Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup... always good to see the lower level teams try to knock off the big boys.   
 
I know it's predominantly D1 and D2 with a sprinkle of D3 players, but I wonder if there are D3 coaches that take over PDL teams in the summer other than Dave Castellanos from PSU-Abington (recently took over Reading United) and Oz from Rutgers-Camden (Ocean City Nor'easters - 2 seasons so far). 

Mr.Right

Yes I try to catch as many PDL games as possible in the summer because of the nice weather and good players. It gets me juiced for the season. I believe coaches that get involved in it do it for some xtra cash and they love to coach. It also can get their name out there with the players and thru word of mouth as players love to talk. In New England not to many head coaches do it but I know Curry College Head coach and a former Tufts assistant coach are head coaches in the league.

PaulNewman

Just to clarify in terms of references in threads to the various hardships on the NESCAC schools relative to other teams and conferences....ALL of them are self-imposed.  Certainly nothing that other teams and conferences should have to apologize about.

Another question.  In years when the NESCAC has gotten 4-5 bids how far in the NCAA tournament did the 3rd, 4th, and 5th teams get?

Mr.Right

Either way those self imposed rules by Nescac will be felt by all teams in D3 by 2016-17. 18 max games, rare mid-week games, cut down NCAA's, etc. So while you anti-Nescac rhetoric has you grinning from ear to ear we most likely will not be seeing Kenyon anytime soon in November.

Also, Nescac got 5 teams in ONE year...ONE...4 teams in maybe 3 years. They beat each other up. Your shot should be at the UAA with different teams in different regions and still failing to advance .


PaulNewman

You are way off-base.  I'm on record going back to the beginning of last year that the NESCAC is a or the top conference in D3.  Great conference.  Great schools.  Said all that many times.  What I don't get is what seems to be an ongoing refrain about how the NESCAC is always getting screwed, and that all roads, all awards, etc should always lead back to the NESCAC.  For all its supremacy, how many national titles come from the NESCAC?  3-4 for the men and 0 for the women.  The volume of attention to the NESCAC seems a little out of balance, and then if another school or conference gets a little attention it's like the immediate response is "yeah, but what about the NESCAC" or "how dare you mention that school in the same sentence with the NESCAC" or "do you think Danny Brandt is leaving Messiah because Tufts kicked his butt?"  In terms of posting, this site runs at least 10:1 NESCAC.  You guys are getting your due.  You're not getting cheated here.

Mr.Right

#2225
I have never said anything of the sort.Danny Brandt knew he was leaving Messiah back in October and confided to a select few. Listen the Nescac is my league and I will support it forever.

My main points which are very important points which need to be explained to you as usual are

1. Nescac has no spring season..To a former player I cannot begin to explain to you what a disadvantage that is.

2. Nescac has no pre-season yet still manages to win NCAA soccer games / championships. Most D3 teams start mid August and if a team goes abroad then its early August. ONE EXTRA MONTH.

Your problem is you have no understanding of the history of these leagues and /or championships which is fine but you then bark out all this crap about why, where,who and when.


Midwest Soccer

Didn't Amherst go abroad last summer?


Mr.Right

They did go abroad but because of more stringent rules they are forced to choose between the end of May after finals for 2 weeks or during spring break in the middle/end of March. For example, if you wanted to take a trip in Baseball you have to do it at the end of August. While these trips are excellent for team building and the like the dates to be able to take them hardly help your pre season fitness and all that.

D3soccerwatcher

Quote from: Mr.Right on January 03, 2015, 09:02:30 AM
They did go abroad but because of more stringent rules they are forced to choose between the end of May after finals for 2 weeks or during spring break in the middle/end of March. For example, if you wanted to take a trip in Baseball you have to do it at the end of August. While these trips are excellent for team building and the like the dates to be able to take them hardly help your pre season fitness and all that.

Messiah also went abroad this past summer...in MAY!  This is not unique to NESCAC as Mr.Right is trying to suggest.

GarbageGoals33

"A top 8 player in D3 won't cut it, not even for the USL Pro level."

This is an untrue statement... See Kyle Altman (Trinity University Alum) who played for the Minnesota Stars/Minnesota Thunder of the NASL, formerly USL (exact same level as USL Pro).  He anchored the defense and was eventually team captain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Altman


Additionally, Joe Warren (University of Saint Thomas) played keeper for the Minnesota Thunder for several years.


Midwest Soccer

Give me the 8 best pro prospects in D3 and I'm sure they are good enough to make a roster at the USL level. It's much harder to get a chance and then even harder to make the most of that chance. If you do, who knows where your career could take you...look at Wondo, D2 kid who was a supplemental pick who turned $14k a year into $600 or something like that

Some D3 players who weren't even 1st team All-Americans (Note: I'm trying to illustrate that just cause you don't make 1st team all-american doesn't mean your chances at going pro are done)...Morgan Langley (Swarthmore) in 2009 got snubbed but is entering his 5th professional season in Harrisburg and is an important player there. Five years is a long career in 1 place in that league. Richie Marquez (Redlands) who was a shock invitee to the MLS combine (the only 1 that matters) last year and performed so well he was actually drafted by Philadelphia and went on loan to Harrisburg for the season and played well in his rookie campaign. Nick Thompson (Messiah) was a 2nd team All-American is 2010 and played 1 season for the Carolina Railhawks in the NASL before entering coaching.

Those are just to name a few. There are more D3 players at the USL/NASL level than you would think. Still minimal in comparison to other divisions but more than you would think.

Mr.Right

#2232
Personally lets go further and add 7 former Williams alums

Khari Stephonson- MLS for about 6 years with maybe 8-10 goals and still in the league at age 33

Dan Calichman- current assistant coach at Toronto FC was a MLS All-Star and played for about 10 years for the New England Revs and LA Galaxy.2 US Caps

Alex Blake- Played a bit for Colorado but did not pan out but he was the most talented of any of them. his downfall was his immaturity at the age of 22.

Mike Masters- There was no MLS when he played but he would of made it and played alongside Bruce Murray and a  bunch of the 1990 World Cup USA teammates in the defunct ASL. First American to score at Wembley Stadium.

Steve Danbusky- USL great with Long Island Rough Riders.

Charlie Romero- Charleston Battery

Josh Bolton-Rochester Rhinos.

That is just 7 off the top of my head and I am sure I am missing about 10 others. That is for ONE team. I am sure many others on this board could go on for days with players from their own leagues and teams about players impacting USL. MLS is a different story which is why I said Ramirez has NO SHOT with the UNION.

One other Wesleyan speedster star play Amos McGee was a perennial star with the USL Minnesota franchise for years.


I agree with Last Guy that the top 8 players usually will struggle nowadays to get quality looks and then break the first team in MLS. VERY DIFFICULT.

I will disagree with last guy that the top 8 players will and can make an impact in the USL. The question being is do these guys want to continue playing for minimal $$$ or go get a REAL job.


Midwest Soccer

I think for some people the idea of living out a dream (USL season is 7 months if you make a championship game so not a long season) can trump trying to find a full time job immediately, especially if they don't know what they want to pursue yet. I'm sure that's different for NESCAC schools who would like to put that prestigious degree to work right away which is very understandable, but maybe not the case for a player who went to a school like Thomas More., which isn't a jab at Thomas More's education, just illustrating there's a difference in the degrees.

I always love to see a D3 guy make a roster and even better when they make a name for themselves in any of those leagues. Especially when the lower teams knock off MLS teams in the Open Cup, always fun to see.


lastguyoffthebench



Morgan Langley from Swat is currently on Harrisburg City Islanders along with Richie Marquez from Redlands.

Chris Boyles from Messiah played for Charlotte Eagles when they were the division below the MLS I believe. 

I think Bryan Hoy from E-town played for Charleston Battery too for a short stint.


My statement was just a bit of an exaggeration as a player like Kai from Messiah never even cracked USL Pro.      Looking at Altman, he was a first team AA for 2 years, so it's not surprising to see a defender like that crack into the USL Pro/NASL level.   I am not familiar with his seasons at Trinity, but he had to be one of the best backs in the nation...