Future of Division III

Started by Ralph Turner, October 10, 2005, 07:27:51 PM

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johnnie_esq

I got what you meant RT..I'd be surprised if you hadn't heard of Jamestown!

Here is the article I was thinking of about Jamestown moving over-- more of an article about the whole DAC-10 moving over.
SJU Champions 2003 NCAA D3, 1976 NCAA D3, 1965 NAIA, 1963 NAIA; SJU 2nd Place 2000 NCAA D3; SJU MIAC Champions 2018, 2014, 2009, 2008, 2006, 2005, 2003, 2002, 2001, 1999, 1998, 1996, 1995, 1994, 1993, 1991, 1989, 1985, 1982, 1979, 1977, 1976, 1975, 1974, 1971, 1965, 1963, 1962, 1953, 1938, 1936, 1935, 1932

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2006, 08:50:24 PM
Warren, you misread my post.  I said that "I had not heard Jamestown (moving to D2)".

I "knew of" Jamestown.   ;)

Of course - it is a well known suburb of Ypsilanti! ;D

(For those for whom the above is a bit TOO obscure, Jamestown, ND, is about 20 miles from a speck of a ranch/farm town, which was indeed settled by immigrants from MY Ypsi!)

Gregory Sager

Quote from: johnnie_esq on January 17, 2006, 09:27:32 PM
I got what you meant RT..I'd be surprised if you hadn't heard of Jamestown!

I've heard of it as well, as I have an elderly friend who grew up there.

After looking up Jamestown, ND ("home of the World's Largest Buffalo" -- it's a cement statue) on Wikipedia, I've found that for a town of a mere 15,000 people it's turned out a few celebrities: Pop singer Peggy Lee, Western novelist Louis L'Amour, disc jockey Shadoe Stevens, and major league baseball players Travis Hafner and Darin Erstad.

Most of the people in Jamestown are either of German or Norwegian descent. My elderly friend told me that when he was growing up the town had two Lutheran churches, one comprised of German-Americans and the other of Norwegian-Americans. He said that they refused to integrate into one big Lutheran church, because the German-Americans believed that it was OK to drink beer but that women shouldn't be allowed to wear makeup in church, whilst the Norwegian-Americans believed that drinking beer was sinful but that it was permissible for women to wear makeup in church.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Warren Thompson

Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2006, 06:04:41 PM
I have heard University of Mary.  I had not heard Jamestown.

That, the DAC-10)  has to hurt the NAIA badly.

Sorry, Ralph. I missed the ellipsis in your post above.

Warren Thompson

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 18, 2006, 02:06:41 AM

Most of the people in Jamestown are either of German or Norwegian descent. My elderly friend told me that when he was growing up the town had two Lutheran churches, one comprised of German-Americans and the other of Norwegian-Americans. He said that they refused to integrate into one big Lutheran church, because the German-Americans believed that it was OK to drink beer but that women shouldn't be allowed to wear makeup in church, whilst the Norwegian-Americans believed that drinking beer was sinful but that it was permissible for women to wear makeup in church.

That's Lutherans for you ... certain things are absolutely verboten until they are obligatory.  ;)

David Collinge

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 18, 2006, 02:06:41 AM
After looking up Jamestown, ND ("home of the World's Largest Buffalo" -- it's a cement statue) on Wikipedia, I've found that for a town of a mere 15,000 people it's turned out a few celebrities: Pop singer Peggy Lee, Western novelist Louis L'Amour, disc jockey Shadoe Stevens, and major league baseball players Travis Hafner and Darin Erstad.

Hafner is only from Jamestown in the sense that he was born in the hospital there, the only hospital in many square miles.  He grew up and continues to live in Sykeston, ND.

johnnie_esq

The NCAA posted the voting results from the convention here.

For proposal #3 (redshirts) voted down 277-128-1, some notable ayes (reinstatement of redshirting) included UW-W, UWEC, UWSP, McMurry, Linfield, Capitol, Cortland, Rowan, ETBU, RPI, UMHB, HSU, and the ASW Conference representative.

Some notable nays to #3 include SJU, Concordia (MN), MUC, PLU, Trinity (TX), UW-L, UW-P,  Occidental, Redlands, Bridgewater (VA), and the WIAC and NWC conference reps. 

It seems conferences were far more divided on redshirts this time around compared to last, where the entire NWC voted to keep redshirts and the WIAC voted to rid of them.

For proposal #4 (disallowing redshirts from other divisions) defeated 203-199-4, some notable nays (to allow redshirts from other divisions) include MUC, Linfield, PLU, Rowan, Oxy, Cortland, Redlands, UWEC, UWW, Trinity (TX), ETBU, HSU, UMHB, McMurry, and Rowan.

Some notable ayes (to disallow redshirts from other divisions) include SJU and the entire MIAC, Wartburg and the entire IIAC, SNC and the entire MWC, UW-L, UWSP, the WIAC rep, Bridgewater, the OAC rep, Whitworth, Williammette and Wabash.
SJU Champions 2003 NCAA D3, 1976 NCAA D3, 1965 NAIA, 1963 NAIA; SJU 2nd Place 2000 NCAA D3; SJU MIAC Champions 2018, 2014, 2009, 2008, 2006, 2005, 2003, 2002, 2001, 1999, 1998, 1996, 1995, 1994, 1993, 1991, 1989, 1985, 1982, 1979, 1977, 1976, 1975, 1974, 1971, 1965, 1963, 1962, 1953, 1938, 1936, 1935, 1932

Ralph Turner

Johnnie, D3 is Texas is entirely different, because of so many talented athletes who get scholarships around the country and then don't get the PT they want.

They come back to Texas, a la Elliott back home to Linfield.

The starting QB's at HPU and McM  and I believe HSU, had experience at higher levels out of state, but wanted to come back home and enjoy playing.  It is like that in multiple sports.

In basketball, Texas has 20 D1's, 10 D's and two more D2's moving from the NAIA-1 in 2006-07.  Oklahoma raids Texas high school recruits all of the time.  IMHO, the redshirt rule was an exclusionary tactic by other parts of the country where there is no or little competition for high school talent like we see in Texas.

johnnie_esq

RT, I was not trying to point fingers at any schools or regions in particular; rather, I was putting several of the schools that have qualified for football playoffs or were interesting to me in my West region focus.  I admit it is completely unscientific!

My first thought was that at least 2 of the top 4 in football this year were advocates of reinstating the redshirt rule-- a sense of the rich getting richer perhaps, especially when supported by some other of football's usual suspects, including UWEC, Linfield, and UMHB.  But that is not necessarily the case as SJU, MUC, PLU, Trinity and Bridgewater voted no to the proposal.  I was surprised at the dissidence within a public school conference (the WIAC) and at a recent NAIA convert private school conference (NWC).  That tells me that it isn't just a public/private issue.

But the inconsistency of that relation breaks down in #4, considering the upper Midwest private schools all voted for (and thus against the recognition of D-1/2 redshirts), and Texas schools were opposite, while the WIAC and NWC again split.  I was not trying to advocate a "right" or "wrong" stance, just do a summary of who (football-wise) went one way or another.

You bring up an interesting point about TX being home to 20 D-1 basketball programs and 12 D-2 programs; but I don't see it as unique to Texas, as Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, ND and SD together have 20 D-1 programs in basketball and currently 10 D-2 programs (add one more for U of Mary from NAIA and potentially 8 more if the DAC moves over) and combined has a population roughly the same as Texas.  So I don't know if it's a state issue so much as a regional issue.  I get your point, though-- MN is home to 5 D-1 hockey programs (with UND being 5 minutes away as number 6) and everybody recruits MN for hockey (BC, BU, CC, Denver, Wisconsin, Mich. Tech., UAA, UAF), so when they don't get the PT at Northern Michigan, they come back and play in the MIAC.
SJU Champions 2003 NCAA D3, 1976 NCAA D3, 1965 NAIA, 1963 NAIA; SJU 2nd Place 2000 NCAA D3; SJU MIAC Champions 2018, 2014, 2009, 2008, 2006, 2005, 2003, 2002, 2001, 1999, 1998, 1996, 1995, 1994, 1993, 1991, 1989, 1985, 1982, 1979, 1977, 1976, 1975, 1974, 1971, 1965, 1963, 1962, 1953, 1938, 1936, 1935, 1932

Ralph Turner

Johnny, a cogent reply.  :)  Sorry that my response was mis-interpreted.  (The absence of inflection and non-verbal communications is one reason that plain email will never supplant face-to-face.  :-\ :) )

The politics behind that vote was interesting.  Was it 1975 old line D3 vs "newbies" and state schools from the NAIA?

redswarm81

Quote from: Coach C on January 16, 2006, 10:08:09 AM
Greg -

I love a good discussion.  I am a passionate defender of the first amendment.  I think that there are real problems with both racism and political correctness in American society. 

C

Ahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

You mean for everyone, or just for you?

Ahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

I just stopped by to say something non-controversial and non-thought provoking, just as I always do.  I assume you guys are just as proud as I am of all those "moderate" Muslims in the Palestinian Authority who voted the Terrorist Party into a governing majority in Parliament.  Now maybe we will get to see the Crusaders take on the Fightin' Jihadists!

'Scuse me, I have to go compose some cheers.  The shareef don't like it, . . .
Irritating SAT-lagging Union undergrads and alums since 1977

Coach C

redswarm81 -

Are you on medication? Drunk? Just an a$$hole?  It took you 8 days to come up with that response?

The only thing less intelligent than your initial comment, is your analysis of the recent Palestinian elections.

Have a nice weekend.

C

David Collinge

Aw geez, here goes another room down the RedSwarm Toilet.  >:(

smedindy

Actually, it's the same room, but back to the old flush...

Coach C

Yeah guys,

I am sorry I rose to redswarm81's sophomoric rant.  I'll leave be henceforth.

C