Future of Division III

Started by Ralph Turner, October 10, 2005, 07:27:51 PM

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Warren Thompson

Maybe Pat should employ his "Webmaster's Tidy-Bowl Option" ....

Pat Coleman

Maybe you guys should get back to talking about the D-III issue and not about the troll. :)
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Warren Thompson

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 28, 2006, 03:49:22 PM
Maybe you guys should get back to talking about the D-III issue and not about the troll. :)

Consider that we are now properly chastised, scolded, and otherwise heaped upon with contumely ....  :-[

Pat Coleman

Sorry, just waiting for the conversation to return before I do anything further. :)
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Warren Thompson

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 28, 2006, 06:22:38 PM
Sorry, just waiting for the conversation to return before I do anything further. :)

No need at all to be sorry. The "troll" is, indeed, best left ignored ....

Pat Coleman

The NCAA hasn't been great about keeping up with posting minutes of committee meetings in the past year or so, but I finally ran across this list:

It was VOTED
"To accept the following applications for Division III membership:
(1)      Briarcliffe College (2007-08);
(2)      Franciscan University of Steubenville (2007-08);
(3)      College of St. Joseph in Vermont (2006-07); and
(4)      St. Joseph's College, New York (2007-08)."

These would be provisional members starting in that year.

Not sure if any others got in before the moratorium was re-established.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Ralph Turner

#276
My notes have these classes of schools becoming active in these seasons.

2006-07 -- Spelman GA (GSAC)

2007-08 -- Finlandia MI (IND) , Green Mountain VT (IND) , Mount Mary WI (IND) , and UT-Tyler (ASC-East).

2008-09 -- Crown MN (UMAC) , Keystone PA (NEAC) , UMaine-Presque Isle (IND) , Mount Aloysius PA (AMCC), PSU-Berks LVC (NEAC), Tri-State IN (MIAA), UMinn-Morris (UMAC).

2009-10 -- Bethany Lutheran MN (UMAC), La Sierra CA (IND), Mitchell CT (IND), Northwestern MN (UMAC), Presentation SD (UMAC), SUNY-Purchase (NEAC), Salem NC (IND).

2010-11 -- Point Park PA (IND), Seton Hill PA (IND), College of St Joseph VT (IND),  SUNY-Morrisville (IND).

2011-12 -- Briarcliffe NY,  Franciscan U Steubenville OH, St Joseph's NY, St Vincent PA, Lincoln Christian Seminary and College MO  (SLIAC candidate).

I also have that these schools are in their exploratory year in 2005-06.

U Cincinnatti-Clermont
SUNY-Cobleskill
Doane-NEB
Geneva PA
Lancaster Bible College PA
Lyndon State College (VT)
PSU-Harrisburg
Spaulding KY

Corrections provided by Pat Coleman on 29Jan06 have been made.  (Thanks Pat!  :)).

Other corrections appreciated.

Pat Coleman

SUNY-Morrisville belongs in the 2010-11 class and St. Vincent and Lincoln Christian in the 2011-12 class, I believe. Pretty sure they have been slotted.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Warren Thompson

Pat:

Do you think D3 will someday split into two sub-divisions (or D3 and D4)?

Mr. Ypsi

Ralph (or anyone),

In terms of athletics, do you know if any of these teams are going to be one's to keep an eye on?  I know Tri-State is up to middle-of-the-pack in bball in the MIAA this year, but the others that I know ANYTHING about are about as low as you can go (Green Mountain, Presque Isle, Finlandia).

I confess that with many of these schools, I not only know nothing about their athletics, I've never heard of the school!

Ralph Turner

Mr Ypsi, I started logging these changes so we would have an easily accessible record of the changes, with the appropriate references to news releases, e.g., Daily Dose, Notables, etc.

As you suggest, the new additions seem to be for their own reasons.

-- The Tri-State addition solidifies the MIAA, especially in football.
-- In turn, this frees up Wisconsin Lutheran to return to the new LMC/NIIC.  That conference might sponsor football, which would ripple (tsunami ;)) thru the IBFC.
-- The Pres AC will be a big winner if/when they get St Vincent, Geneva and Seton Hill PA.
--  I see some of these additions as consolidating programs in the various geographic areas, to wit the UMAC.
-- Other conferences that seem to be gaining stability are the NEAC, the AMCC and the SLIAC.  (I would rather see a Pool A going to a conference champion, than a bunch of Pool B's that seem to be wandering Bumbledom.)  The NEAC will have several more changes to its membership.  It is a big conference (numerically and geographically) that is seeking an AQ.  Getting the AQ is the key!

-- SUNY-Morrisville may help stablize East Region football.  That would give the SUNYAC as chance to sponsor football if Buffalo State, Cortland State and Brockport State join Morrisville to get a Pool A and seek affiliates.  By 2012, might the SUNYAC and the NJAC soak up the East Region independents and the ACFC into 2 Pool A conferences?  (SUNYAC--Buff, Brock, Cortland, Morrisville, SUNY Maritime, Frostburg and Salisbury?  NJAC--Wesley, TCNJ, WP, Rowan, Montclair, W Conn,  a 7th?)

Otherwise, I think that most stable programs are staying where they are.  We saw big changes when the NWC and ASC moved from NAIA to D3.  One caveat...if the DAC-10 moves en masse to D2, then that will have a big effect  on the NAIA as well.

Just my thoughts.  It will be interesting.  Lots of new Pool B's showing up tho'. :-\

Mr. Ypsi

Thanks, Ralph!

Didn't really answer my question, but, then, it was a bad question!  Who can really predict several years into the future (the pick-em boards will tell you we don't do so hot even on THIS year).

I was wondering if any of these schools have a solid tradition in any particular sports and/or if any of them seem to have a real commitment to becoming good in any particular sports.

My most specific curiosity was whether any of them seem likely to be top 50 (or even top 100) basketball schools, but I AM curious about all other sports as well.

smedindy

I would be surprised if these newbies didn't try to join conferences.

I don't think top 50 hoop schools, but you never know.

johnnie_esq

Just a minor technical correction, RT- With the U. of Mary already leaving the DAC-10 for the NCAA, and Si Tanka University (formerly the University of Huron) dropping athletics (if not closing altogether), it's now just the DAC.

But there is some diversity in programs within the DAC-- I think there will be a substantial push from some members to consider D-3 and cut costs.  Regardless, I fully agree-- stay tuned as such a big move would really cause ripples in D2 and D3 alike, as well as the NAIA.

WT- I personally don't see it occurring without a broader restructuring starting from D-1 on down.  IMHO, I think the push will be from D-1A schools to force some of their fringe members down to D-1AA, which would require D-1 A,AA and AAA to undergo some serious thought.  In turn, the relative smallness and slow growth in D2 compared to the size and growth speed of D3 would be seen as a chance for the NCAA to rebalance things out.  But without something starting at the D1 level, the NC$$ will leave the nonrevenue divisions alone.
SJU Champions 2003 NCAA D3, 1976 NCAA D3, 1965 NAIA, 1963 NAIA; SJU 2nd Place 2000 NCAA D3; SJU MIAC Champions 2018, 2014, 2009, 2008, 2006, 2005, 2003, 2002, 2001, 1999, 1998, 1996, 1995, 1994, 1993, 1991, 1989, 1985, 1982, 1979, 1977, 1976, 1975, 1974, 1971, 1965, 1963, 1962, 1953, 1938, 1936, 1935, 1932

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2006, 09:25:42 PM
Thanks, Ralph!

Didn't really answer my question, but, then, it was a bad question!  Who can really predict several years into the future (the pick-em boards will tell you we don't do so hot even on THIS year).

I did leave that one open-ended, because absolutely none of those schools, except UT-Tyler, is within a day's drive of Dallas.   :D

I was wondering if any of these schools have a solid tradition in any particular sports and/or if any of them seem to have a real commitment to becoming good in any particular sports.

Doane NE? (Great Plains AC like Neb Wes)   Geneva PA? St Vincent?  They come to mind.  I hate to be pejorative about the quality of any of those schools.  That is why I framed the question in the conference setting.  I think that the UMAC will be a great boon to D3 athletics in the north country.  They may not be MIAC or NWC quality at this time, but if they provide a D3 option, then great.

My most specific curiosity was whether any of them seem likely to be top 50 (or even top 100) basketball schools, but I AM curious about all other sports as well.

I think that very few schools will be Top 100 by 2015.  I do think that the examples that I cited are good examples of tangible contributions that we can see in the National competitions.  LaSierra gives another Pool B in southern California.