Future of Division III

Started by Ralph Turner, October 10, 2005, 07:27:51 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Gregory Sager

Davidson has an endowment of over $420m. That gives that school a lot more latitude to experiment with alternative forms of finance with regard to its students and how they pay their bills than is true of the vast majority of D3 schools.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

smedindy

It's going to make an impact, perhaps, in some leagues, for sure. The leagues with the schools that have more of a national footprint and large endowments.

Warren Thompson

#737
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2007, 12:47:57 AM
Davidson has an endowment of over $420m. That gives that school a lot more latitude to experiment with alternative forms of finance with regard to its students and how they pay their bills than is true of the vast majority of D3 schools.

For the record, the Milton Hershey School (brainchild of Milton "Chocolate" Hershey himself) has an endowment of seven billion dollars, courtesy the Hershey Trust Fund. Every time you buy a Hershey Bar or Candy Kiss, you're increasing the Trust's holdings.

Perhaps they should compete in D3 athletics. Better yet, maybe they should fund D3 athletics. ;)

labart96

Obviously some schools with significant endowments can be more creative here.  The other question this raised for TGP, was that within the Liberty League, there are schools with "low" endowments like my alma mater (less than $150MM) playing schools with $300+MM (Union) to $1B plus endowments (RPI). 

It makes TGP wonder a little bit how recruiting and/or programs could be effected should should some of our competitors adopt a similiar aid strategy as Davidson?

Pat Coleman

Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Warren Thompson

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 20, 2007, 12:25:16 PM
Quote from: Warren Thompson on March 20, 2007, 08:54:15 AM
Better yet, maybe they should fund D3 athletics. ;)

Hah!

Someone once proclaimed, "A billion here, a billion there. Pretty soon you're talking about real money." The Milton Hershey School seems to have really "real money."

smedindy

I'm surprised how many schools have just seven and eight figure endowments, though.

Warren Thompson

Quote from: smedindy on March 20, 2007, 04:35:38 PM
I'm surprised how many schools have just seven and eight figure endowments, though.

In terms of endowments, there are some obscenely rich venues in D3 ... and some that have endowments below a good many private prep schools as well as a number of "rich" public high schools.

In terms of raw dollars, there's a great divide in D3.

Gregory Sager

#743
Quote from: smedindy on March 20, 2007, 04:35:38 PM
I'm surprised how many schools have just seven and eight figure endowments, though.

Exactly. TGP speaks of his alma mater having a "low" endowment of $150m, but there's a huge percentage of D3's membership that would kill to have $150m in the bank.

Quote from: Warren Thompson on March 20, 2007, 08:54:15 AMFor the record, the Milton Hershey School (brainchild of Milton "Chocolate" Hershey himself) has an endowment of seven billion dollars, courtesy the Hershey Trust Fund. Every time you buy a Hershey Bar or Candy Kiss, you're increasing the Trust's holdings.

I put myself through a year of seminary by working in an M&M/Mars chocolate factory. They taught me not to buy product from the enemy. ;)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

labart96

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 21, 2007, 01:13:48 AM
Quote from: smedindy on March 20, 2007, 04:35:38 PM
I'm surprised how many schools have just seven and eight figure endowments, though.

Exactly. TGP speaks of his alma mater having a "low" endowment of $150m, but there's a huge percentage of D3's membership that would kill to have $150m in the bank.

Quote from: Warren Thompson on March 20, 2007, 08:54:15 AMFor the record, the Milton Hershey School (brainchild of Milton "Chocolate" Hershey himself) has an endowment of seven billion dollars, courtesy the Hershey Trust Fund. Every time you buy a Hershey Bar or Candy Kiss, you're increasing the Trust's holdings.

I put myself through a year of seminary by working in an M&M/Mars chocolate factory. They taught me not to buy product from the enemy. ;)

There is some truth to that.  TGP's perspective is obviously biased towards his alma mater in comparison to the school's we compete with - not the entire D3 spectrum.

Keep in mind though, that Hobart is almost 200 years old, which not all the other schools across the D3 spectrum are - giving us time to build up our endowment (it was less than 10-20 as recently as the late 80's though.  We didn't really go crazy with the fund-raising until about 92 or 93.....)

scottiedoug

I was talking today with Randy Lambert, basketball coach at Maryville (TN) College, which has a meager endowment and a hefty pricetag.  We were talking about specific recruits.  Except for Davidson and Princeton and a few others, almost every student athlete has to borrow money...thousands of dollars.  For a great many poor and/or working class kids, esp. first generation college students, borrowing money like that is just not an option.  So any full or nearly full athletic scholarship from NAIA or D2 or JUCO, no matter how good the academics or "valuable" the degree, is the only choice.  It is too bad we as a society do not really value education sufficiently!

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: David Collinge on March 11, 2007, 11:46:24 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 11, 2007, 09:18:34 PM
In VWC's defense, Wash U's endowment probably spins off $39M per month.   The Marlins won their first National Championship in their 45th year.  It took Amherst nearly 2 centuries.   :D  ;D :D

Now just a cotton-pickin' minute.  The clock is still ticking on Amherst; let's not concede the trophy to them just yet.  ::) :D

Was just reading old posts looking for something I couldn't find.

David, can we concede them the trophy yet?!  (And award Ralph the 'accidental crystal ball award'?)

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 29, 2007, 08:22:39 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 11, 2007, 11:46:24 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 11, 2007, 09:18:34 PM
In VWC's defense, Wash U's endowment probably spins off $39M per month.   The Marlins won their first National Championship in their 45th year.  It took Amherst nearly 2 centuries.   :D  ;D :D

Now just a cotton-pickin' minute.  The clock is still ticking on Amherst; let's not concede the trophy to them just yet.  ::) :D

Was just reading old posts looking for something I couldn't find.

David, can we concede them the trophy yet?!  (And award Ralph the 'accidental crystal ball award'?)
Accidental !?!?!   :o 

That is prescience!  ;D

Ralph Turner

#748
From the Working Group on Membership Issues, I found this in the March 2, 2007 agenda.

Potential methods for Dividing D3 Institutions.

Dividing the Institutions in D3-- Background Information

Supplement #5 is a Power Point and Supplement #6 is a PDF File.

Are they trying to co-opt the NAIA with their "Division IV"?

Supplement A addresses the budget...the CBS (March Madness) contract which provides 90% of the revenue (direct and indirect) and extends thru 2013..





Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


So they are proposing that the division with more restrictions would require more sports?  Doesn't this cater entirely to the "power" conferences that pride themselves on academic elitism?  It seems like this was tailor made to help the NESCAC, CCIW and UAA dominate.


It would require 8 sports for each gender, a total of 16, which would forcibly push the smaller schools into the less restrictive category (4 and 4 required) where they have no hope of competing with the likes of the WIAC.

I would think that however the division is made (if it is indeed going to happen) that they formulate it in a way that smaller schools can still choose the more restrictive route.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere