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ITH radio

Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on October 17, 2017, 09:00:00 AM
Quote from: Bartman on October 16, 2017, 05:00:09 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on October 16, 2017, 01:09:49 PM
Union 40
Hobart 3

Taste it!
Jonny,
     That's the forecast if the Hockey teams play...right? I wouldn't be so confident........ the D3 Statesmen skaters are pretty tough ;)

Ha.  I just want to give some locker room bulletin board material for Hobart.

I honestly have not been able to watch that much D3 football this year.  I watched about half of the IC/Brockport game and most of the IC/Hobart game and parts of the Brockport/Hobart game.  Hobart's year is a little puzzling.  Without knowing who came back from last year, it is clear they are "missing" something on offense.  From the little I watched it seemed they were just putting plays together without the system offense they were running last year.  I could be wrong as I have only watched about 4 total quarters of Hobart football.  You can throw it up to Shed every once in a while, but if teams adjust, you need to have something else in the arsenal and I'm not sure Hobart has figured that out yet.  Sometimes it does take 5-6 games to figure out what guys can do and maybe Hobart will figure that out and do some damage the rest of the year.

Ithaca has gone with the frosh QB and that is a big deal.  New coaching staff, new quarterback, new offense with completely new schemes like option, inside zone and some no huddle/tempo concepts that the bombers seem to have picked up on.  #2 Gladney is a stud potential All-American type WR which is also the X Factor in this offense.  Like Shed, the Bombers can just throw it up to this guy and he will make catches against smaller dbacks and will also make tough catches over the shoulder, one handed, etc.

Union is doing some things similar to Ithaca, with a real young oline and some senior leadership at QB and WR.  Berhman took a step back with some of the scheduling but that may have been the best thing for this team.

RPI I have no idea.  I saw them play last year at MIT and they seem to be a well coached football team with some good playmakers. 

SLU is possibly suffering from departed coach syndrome that often follow teams where coaches take a "step up" to other jobs (although this may not have been a step "up").  Often times there is a year or two gap in recruiting that effects the school that the coach leaves from.

Rochester needed a change.  Like Union and Ithaca, things were getting stale there and a new coaching staff with new ideas should help the program.  Not sure how much help Greene had in the admissions office either, as rumors of Audino's help there and in the financial office may have also led to his demise.  0-10 is 0-10 though.  Ithaca had the benefit of Welch announcing his retirement and having a new coach come in soon enough to stabilize recruiting and it looks like it paid off with their quarterback.

I've also noticed that Union and Hobart have about 15-20 New England/MA Catholic school players on their rosters.  RPI has about 10 and Rochester has about 2.  I'm thinking Rochester needs to hit this area of recruiting in the future.

I think what's hurt Hobart this season have been slow starts on offense in their games. I profiled this in more detail in my HFB CA blog / Union game preview, but basically the Statesmen have scored 64% of their points in the second half. That came back to bite them in the IC game, and has let teams like Wick (see last week), keep it close for maybe longer than they should have. I think it's because of some injuries, changes on the OL and the fact that the team is trying to get more balanced. While Shed is a star, I think Sweeney really misses the experience and route running skills of Sean Cunningham (who was a Geneva HS teammate) and Jack Pfohl (now a WR coach on Cragg's staff). While guys like Cataliotto and Conley have stepped up, they are still young and inexperienced.

Re SLU, they lost Sean Richardson to injury and going with a FY QB for the first time in like 15 years. I thought they had brought back enough talent to plug gaps, but from the film I've seen, the losses of guys like James Holley-Grisham and CBW have been tough to overcome (see Hobart 2015, post-TC).
Follow us on twitter @D3FBHuddle

Oline89

Quote from: ITH radio on October 17, 2017, 11:23:50 AM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on October 17, 2017, 09:00:00 AM
Quote from: Bartman on October 16, 2017, 05:00:09 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on October 16, 2017, 01:09:49 PM
Union 40
Hobart 3

Taste it!
Jonny,
     That's the forecast if the Hockey teams play...right? I wouldn't be so confident........ the D3 Statesmen skaters are pretty tough ;)

Ha.  I just want to give some locker room bulletin board material for Hobart.

I honestly have not been able to watch that much D3 football this year.  I watched about half of the IC/Brockport game and most of the IC/Hobart game and parts of the Brockport/Hobart game.  Hobart's year is a little puzzling.  Without knowing who came back from last year, it is clear they are "missing" something on offense.  From the little I watched it seemed they were just putting plays together without the system offense they were running last year.  I could be wrong as I have only watched about 4 total quarters of Hobart football.  You can throw it up to Shed every once in a while, but if teams adjust, you need to have something else in the arsenal and I'm not sure Hobart has figured that out yet.  Sometimes it does take 5-6 games to figure out what guys can do and maybe Hobart will figure that out and do some damage the rest of the year.

Ithaca has gone with the frosh QB and that is a big deal.  New coaching staff, new quarterback, new offense with completely new schemes like option, inside zone and some no huddle/tempo concepts that the bombers seem to have picked up on.  #2 Gladney is a stud potential All-American type WR which is also the X Factor in this offense.  Like Shed, the Bombers can just throw it up to this guy and he will make catches against smaller dbacks and will also make tough catches over the shoulder, one handed, etc.

Union is doing some things similar to Ithaca, with a real young oline and some senior leadership at QB and WR.  Berhman took a step back with some of the scheduling but that may have been the best thing for this team.

RPI I have no idea.  I saw them play last year at MIT and they seem to be a well coached football team with some good playmakers. 

SLU is possibly suffering from departed coach syndrome that often follow teams where coaches take a "step up" to other jobs (although this may not have been a step "up").  Often times there is a year or two gap in recruiting that effects the school that the coach leaves from.

Rochester needed a change.  Like Union and Ithaca, things were getting stale there and a new coaching staff with new ideas should help the program.  Not sure how much help Greene had in the admissions office either, as rumors of Audino's help there and in the financial office may have also led to his demise.  0-10 is 0-10 though.  Ithaca had the benefit of Welch announcing his retirement and having a new coach come in soon enough to stabilize recruiting and it looks like it paid off with their quarterback.

I've also noticed that Union and Hobart have about 15-20 New England/MA Catholic school players on their rosters.  RPI has about 10 and Rochester has about 2.  I'm thinking Rochester needs to hit this area of recruiting in the future.

I think what's hurt Hobart this season have been slow starts on offense in their games. I profiled this in more detail in my HFB CA blog / Union game preview, but basically the Statesmen have scored 64% of their points in the second half. That came back to bite them in the IC game, and has let teams like Wick (see last week), keep it close for maybe longer than they should have. I think it's because of some injuries, changes on the OL and the fact that the team is trying to get more balanced. While Shed is a star, I think Sweeney really misses the experience and route running skills of Sean Cunningham (who was a Geneva HS teammate) and Jack Pfohl (now a WR coach on Cragg's staff). While guys like Cataliotto and Conley have stepped up, they are still young and inexperienced.

Re SLU, they lost Sean Richardson to injury and going with a FY QB for the first time in like 15 years. I thought they had brought back enough talent to plug gaps, but from the film I've seen, the losses of guys like James Holley-Grisham and CBW have been tough to overcome (see Hobart 2015, post-TC).


As a first year fan of Hobart (but long time football fan), I couldn't agree more! It almost seems like the game plan is to start conservative, focusing on the inside run game, then open it up in the second half.  The problem is that our defense can get worn down from being on the field so much in the first quarter.  Also, when we are playing from behind against a team with a strong defense (Brockport, Ithaca, ?Union), it becomes difficult to score with the long ball in the second half.   What a great year to start following the Liberty League, 4 of the 6 teams still have a chance to win the league and advance to the NCAA's with 3 games to play!  Awesome

AUPepBand

#49772
Hmmmm....Bombers picks RPI to beat Pep's Saxons by 3, whereas Bartman's "Better than Bombers" pick is RPI by 4. Pep doesn't like either one!

While the game matters nothing in the E8 AQ scheme of things, Pep knows some Saxons who for the first time experienced losing a football game on Saterday. It left a bitter taste. The boys have had a couple days off to think about it. Pep believes they'll be more focused in prep time this week, lest they revisit and get accustomed to that bitter pill.

Coming home to friendly confines of "The Pit" and having the band in full force (which Pep has been told is worth +7 for AU) should be enough to get the Saxons past those Engineers, 23-19.

On Saxon Warriors!
On Saxon Warriors! On to Victory!
...Fight, fight for Alfred, A-L-F, R-E-D!

stlawus

Man, must be nice to be able to talk about whose alma mater is going to be LL champs... :-[

As ITH radio said, it was always going to be a challenge replacing generational players like CBW and Simmon/JHG.  Richardson went down but I actually like what I saw from Ruthman.  He's not the biggest player but he clearly showed why he led Section 8 in passing yards last year.   In the moment it really sucks watching us blow leads, but this program has been the bottom feeder of the league for the better part of 3 decades and they have taken huge steps forward over the last 5 years.  A year of rebuilding and replacing players can definitely be tolerated. 

I really like seeing other teams in the league compete this year as well, especially Union.  They've clearly reloaded in the right ways and are poised to be successful for years to come. 

UfanBill

#49774




Quote from: UfanBill on October 16, 2017, 07:18:13 PM

Does Hobart really believe Union's a serious threat? St. Lawrence didn't.

To quote Bombers "I think it's not that St. Lawrence didn't take Union seriously (unless you heard some coaches/players saying that). I think it's simply that Union's a much better team than St. Lawrence, and that showed up."
[/quote]

Yes Bombers, that's exactly what I'm saying. For 30+ years I sit on the "frat house" side of Frank Bailey field, directly behind the visitors bench. I like that perspective and I like to hear and see what Union's opponents are doing. Coming back to their bench area after the halftime break I clearly heard one loud St. Lawrence player exhorting his teammates to rally from what was then a 20-6 deficit. " Come on let's go, it's f***ing Union... Union". Clearly to me they were shocked that lowly Union was kicking their ass. After all they had beaten the Dutchmen fours years running. When Union scored to lengthen their lead, coupled with the inability of their offense to do anything. IMO they quit.
"You don't stop playing because you got old, you got old because you stopped playing" 🏈🏀⚾🎿⛳

Bartman

Quote from: AUPepBand on October 17, 2017, 04:10:26 PM
Hmmmm....Bombers picks RPI to beat Pep's Saxons by 3, whereas Bartman's "Better than Bombers" pick is RPI by 4. Pep doesn't like either one!

While the game matters nothing in the E8 AQ scheme of things, Pep knows some Saxons who for the first time experienced losing a football game on Saterday. It left a bitter taste. The boys have had a couple days off to think about it. Pep believes they'll be more focused in prep time this week, lest they revisit that get accustomed to that bitter pill.

Coming home to friendly confines of "The Pit" and having the band in full force (which Pep has been told is worth +7 for AU) should be enough to get the Saxons past those Engineers, 23-19.

On Saxon Warriors!
Pep.....your right, I neglected to fully factor in the band effect for this game against the Engineers.....I may have to rethink the forecast ??? :-\
"I never graduated from Iowa, but I was only there for two terms - Truman's and Eisenhower's."
Alex Karras
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."
Max McGee
"I love football. I really love football, As far as I'm concerned, it's the second best thing in the world".
Joe Namath

Bombers798891

Quote from: UfanBill on October 17, 2017, 09:39:39 PM




Quote from: UfanBill on October 16, 2017, 07:18:13 PM

Does Hobart really believe Union's a serious threat? St. Lawrence didn't.

To quote Bombers "I think it's not that St. Lawrence didn't take Union seriously (unless you heard some coaches/players saying that). I think it's simply that Union's a much better team than St. Lawrence, and that showed up."

Yes Bombers, that's exactly what I'm saying. For 30+ years I sit on the "frat house" side of Frank Bailey field, directly behind the visitors bench. I like that perspective and I like to hear and see what Union's opponents are doing. Coming back to their bench area after the halftime break I clearly heard one loud St. Lawrence player exhorting his teammates to rally from what was then a 20-6 deficit. " Come on let's go, it's f***ing Union... Union". Clearly to me they were shocked that lowly Union was kicking their ass. After all they had beaten the Dutchmen fours years running. When Union scored to lengthen their lead, coupled with the inability of their offense to do anything. IMO they quit.
[/quote]

I mean, look, if that's what you heard, I believe you.

The point is, Union also is probably just a better team . We've all seen teams sleepwalk through games against teams they think they'll beat, get caught off guard and sure, maybe that happened. But through seven weeks of the season, I think Union is just better than St. Lawrence, and that's a large part of why they won.

Regarding Hobart overlooking Union, I think what will hurt the Dutchmen is that the Statesmen have already lost twice, and once in conference. Everything from here on out is a playoff game. Union is the team that could lose and still get the Pool A bid if they were to win out. I think both teams will be focused 100%, however

ITH radio

Quote from: UfanBill on October 16, 2017, 07:18:13 PM
Does Hobart really believe Union's a serious threat? St. Lawrence didn't.

Absolutely. They needed to comeback to beat them (and only by 4 pts) last season at the Boz and this season's Dutchmen team is clearly better than last year. If Hobart's over-confident in this one, they'll lose.
Follow us on twitter @D3FBHuddle

UfanBill

There was discussion earlier in the week about Strength of Schedule, specifically in reference to Hobart vs. Union. I'm anxiously awaiting this game and am searching here for anyone's opinion when I decided to look at the D3football.com page that ranks teams by SOS. It's basically just a ranking based on two things...the won/lost record of a team's opponents (OWP, counts 2/3) and the won/lost of opponent's opponents (OOWP,1/3) It's used as NCAA tourney selection criteria. OK, there's Hobart ranked 37 and Union 112. A significant difference ? A meaningful stat? Could be...until I see the team ranked #34 three spots ahead of Hobart... Mt.Ida... huh? ...How is this particular SOS relevant criteria?
"You don't stop playing because you got old, you got old because you stopped playing" 🏈🏀⚾🎿⛳

Bombers798891

Quote from: UfanBill on October 19, 2017, 03:05:56 PM
There was discussion earlier in the week about Strength of Schedule, specifically in reference to Hobart vs. Union. I'm anxiously awaiting this game and am searching here for anyone's opinion when I decided to look at the D3football.com page that ranks teams by SOS. It's basically just a ranking based on two things...the won/lost record of a team's opponents (OWP, counts 2/3) and the won/lost of opponent's opponents (OOWP,1/3) It's used as NCAA tourney selection criteria. OK, there's Hobart ranked 37 and Union 112. A significant difference ? A meaningful stat? Could be...until I see the team ranked #34 three spots ahead of Hobart... Mt.Ida... huh? ...How is this particular SOS relevant criteria?

Is your issue with it Mt. Ida's specific ranking? Or that it's being used at all as a playoff criteria?

I'm not a big fan of SOS rankings, but at least there's no subjectivity in them. There has to be something to differentiate these teams come playoff time. You can't watch 100+ games a week, these fringe playoff teams rarely play head to head, or even share a common opponent.

Pat Coleman

Mount Ida hasn't played the two worst teams on its schedule (Alfred State and Anna Maria) and one of its worst opponents (Dean) hasn't been in D-III long enough to count. Their number will come down (even with playing Husson yet to come).

Among teams they have played: Plymouth State is 6-1 and Springfield is 7-0.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

dlippiel

This is what dlip really enjoys about D3...the ongoing discussion about conference strength, SOS, head to head results, and "gut" feeling. With so many teams and considering how hard it is to view so many teams even once or twice a year it really is tough to figure out sometimes. Honestly, not that this would be useful in any real debate and/or criteria used for team/league comparisons but dlip finds the typical "gut" test to be pretty accurate having been around D3 football for so long. Not that dlip saying this really means anything at all. Just his thinking sometimes during a season after viewing a some different teams and then comparing results against common opponents or opponents from leagues where other common opponents play. this post is a jumbled mess...dlip just typing because he is sitting at his daughter's tap dance class right now...

UfanBill

Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 19, 2017, 04:06:16 PM
Mount Ida hasn't played the two worst teams on its schedule (Alfred State and Anna Maria) and one of its worst opponents (Dean) hasn't been in D-III long enough to count. Their number will come down (even with playing Husson yet to come).

Among teams they have played: Plymouth State is 6-1 and Springfield is 7-0.

Of course you're right Pat. I was just making a comment in response to ITH Radio who earlier this week seemed to indicate that Hobart was a much better team than Union because they had a stronger SOS. Obviously using Mt. IDA as an example proves the point that SOS midway through your season means little....Among teams Union has played are 5-1 Curry and 5-1 Husson.
"You don't stop playing because you got old, you got old because you stopped playing" 🏈🏀⚾🎿⛳

Pat Coleman

Curry and Husson are similar to the teams which prop up Mount Ida's SOS.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Bartman

Tomorrow we can suspend talk of ratings ,SOS, OWP,OOWP or OOC ........only winner or loser.....and without any disrespect, hoping my Statesmen triumph, RPI beats a winning program in the E8 in Alfred(LL has not beaten a winning E8 program this year), Ithaca beats a SURGING E8 team in Fisher, and SLU beats Rochester(only because I picked them) and also thanking our AD's for their support of our football programs and our student athletes(unlike Occidental). GO LL!
"I never graduated from Iowa, but I was only there for two terms - Truman's and Eisenhower's."
Alex Karras
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."
Max McGee
"I love football. I really love football, As far as I'm concerned, it's the second best thing in the world".
Joe Namath