MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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USee

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2015, 06:40:07 PM


Quote from: AndOne on May 26, 2015, 06:24:41 PMThat's why I think a lot of kids that end up at Wheaton know of the school beforehand by reputation, word of mouth from an alum or clergy member, or other means and, once they decide they are interested, make an initial contact by mail or phone rather than waiting to be discovered by a WC coach that may be half the country away. In effect, they recruit themselves by initiating the process.

No, that's not how it works. They tend to know about Wheaton beforehand, as I said, but the initial contact is typically made by the Wheaton coaches, not by the student-athletes themselves. As I said, the most common way that Wheaton coaches learn about potential WC student-athletes is through the school's alumni network and through Wheaton's various high-school coaching contacts around the country.

Exactly. When I came to Wheaton many moons ago my first contact was from an alum. I Had no idea about the school before hand.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Titan Q on May 26, 2015, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2015, 02:35:15 PM
Mark, I think that you overreacted. You didn't consider the source of that post. You should know by now that augiefan's shtick is to talk up IWU at each and every opportunity whenever it presents itself. He's done this for years.

This is very true.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2015, 02:35:15 PM
His Lou Holtz routine really doesn't affect what happens on the hardwood, of course, but the program that's won the most CCIW titles since Ron Rose took over at IWU doesn't belong to the school in Bloomington; it belongs to the school in Rock Island. In fact, augiefan's navy blue and gold has won twice as many CCIW titles during the Rose era as has IWU. Or, to put it another way, Augie's won as many CCIW crowns since 2006-07 (inclusive) as have IWU and NCC put together.

This is obviously true too.  However, this span also includes the first 3 years of the Ron Rose era - 2006-07 when he played with the very thin roster he inherited, and 2007-08 and 2008-09 when his first recruits were freshmen and sophomores respectively.

Here is a look at the 6 seasons since (from the point Rose's first recruits were juniors):

Last 6 years, 2009-10 through 2014-15
* Illinois Wesleyan 64-20 CCIW (.762) -- 2 CCIW titles/6 NCAA appear./15 NCAA wins/2 Final Four
* Augustana 57-27 CCIW (.679) -- 2 CCIW titles/3 NCAA appear./8 NCAA wins/1 Final Four


That tells a little different story.

Well, as our retired stats teacher in Ypsilanti would no doubt tell us, statistics are frequently susceptible to time-interval selection bias. That means that someone can often move the statistical parameters forwards or backwards in time in order to fit his or her narrative. We've all done it at one time or another on CCIW Chat, I'm sure. As a matter of fact, by using the same principle an Augustana fan could just as easily make the case for his school's supremacy over Illinois Wesleyan based upon the 2014-15 season alone (especially since that's how we usually measure relative success: one season at a time).

Given all that, I figured that it's just as valid to measure Augie vs. IWU via the Giovanine vs. Rose matchup as by any other time interval.

There is some truth to what you say about Rose inheriting a depleted roster from Trost (although Rose did have Trost recruits Zach Freeman and Darius Gant, and his initial Titans team did finish second in the league in scoring). But, regardless of how fair or unfair it is, Rose still has his name attached to those teams, just as Trost has his name attached to the team he inherited from Dennis Bridges.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2015, 10:55:34 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on May 26, 2015, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2015, 02:35:15 PM
Mark, I think that you overreacted. You didn't consider the source of that post. You should know by now that augiefan's shtick is to talk up IWU at each and every opportunity whenever it presents itself. He's done this for years.

This is very true.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2015, 02:35:15 PM
His Lou Holtz routine really doesn't affect what happens on the hardwood, of course, but the program that's won the most CCIW titles since Ron Rose took over at IWU doesn't belong to the school in Bloomington; it belongs to the school in Rock Island. In fact, augiefan's navy blue and gold has won twice as many CCIW titles during the Rose era as has IWU. Or, to put it another way, Augie's won as many CCIW crowns since 2006-07 (inclusive) as have IWU and NCC put together.

This is obviously true too.  However, this span also includes the first 3 years of the Ron Rose era - 2006-07 when he played with the very thin roster he inherited, and 2007-08 and 2008-09 when his first recruits were freshmen and sophomores respectively.

Here is a look at the 6 seasons since (from the point Rose's first recruits were juniors):

Last 6 years, 2009-10 through 2014-15
* Illinois Wesleyan 64-20 CCIW (.762) -- 2 CCIW titles/6 NCAA appear./15 NCAA wins/2 Final Four
* Augustana 57-27 CCIW (.679) -- 2 CCIW titles/3 NCAA appear./8 NCAA wins/1 Final Four


That tells a little different story.

Well, as our retired stats teacher in Ypsilanti would no doubt tell us, statistics are frequently susceptible to time-interval selection bias. That means that someone can often move the statistical parameters forwards or backwards in time in order to fit his or her narrative. We've all done it at one time or another on CCIW Chat, I'm sure. As a matter of fact, by using the same principle an Augustana fan could just as easily make the case for his school's supremacy over Illinois Wesleyan based upon the 2014-15 season alone (especially since that's how we usually measure relative success: one season at a time).

Given all that, I figured that it's just as valid to measure Augie vs. IWU via the Giovanine vs. Rose matchup as by any other time interval.

There is some truth to what you say about Rose inheriting a depleted roster from Trost (although Rose did have Trost recruits Zach Freeman and Darius Gant, and his initial Titans team did finish second in the league in scoring). But, regardless of how fair or unfair it is, Rose still has his name attached to those teams, just as Trost has his name attached to the team he inherited from Dennis Bridges.

I think that is my cue! ;D

I'll basically defend TQ.  My take on IWU 2006-7 would be:

Zach Freeman (1st team AA)



Darius Gant (a good CCIW player; 1st team CCIW the next year)



everyone else.

IIRC, that was the year we had the CCIW fantasy draft.  I had first pick; April had second.  Knowing she would hate me forever if I took Kent Raymond, I took Freeman (whom I preferred anyway); if I recall correctly, Zach beat out Kent on fantasy points (and got over half my points in an otherwise disappointing draft).

It took two/three years for Rose to reload the program - they were thoroughly depleted.

I liked Scott Trost while he was here; despised him for how he left the program. :(

Titan Q

#40443
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2015, 10:55:34 PM
There is some truth to what you say about Rose inheriting a depleted roster from Trost (although Rose did have Trost recruits Zach Freeman and Darius Gant, and his initial Titans team did finish second in the league in scoring).

Just FYI, here is what you said about the talent level on that 2006-07 IWU team Rose inherited after you saw the Titans play at North Park. :)

http://sun.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2007/m2-17.htm

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2007, 03:20:43 AM
Saturday night's Titans @ Vikings tilt at the crackerbox was certainly exciting, but it was a terrible game to watch from an aesthetic point of view. While Bob raved about the intensity of the contest -- and, yes, it certainly was intense -- I was left thinking that neither team did much to grace the considerable basketball legacies of their respective schools.

The first half, especially, looked like two middle school teams trying to make a go of it on the court after their cafeterias had each served Meatloaf Surprise during lunch period. NPU made a whole raft of unforced turnovers and, for some inexplicable reason, refused to attempt to penetrate Wesleyan's athletically-challenged perimeter, even after the Titans dropped their zone and the NPU long-distance jumpers stopped falling with regularity. I thought that Paul Brenegan was going to tear out his hair over the passivity of his team, especially since they're usually such a drive-first, ask-questions-later outfit. But, to be fair, the motion offense was working well enough for the Vikes to get some nice looks from the outside. Still, you can't go away from your strength that much, and NPU's strength is in dribble penetration, not outside shooting.

Wesleyan? They simply looked like a shell of the Titans teams that in the past were as often as not the most feared teams in the CCIW. It was as if Zach Freeman had been tacked onto some other CCIW school's JV squad.

bbfan44

I'm enjoying the off-season discussion.  Thanks all for the interest in keeping it going with good questions and good answers.
Does anyone have current info on the open gym summer basketball reported to be at Benedictine and Elmhurst?  I emailed Benedictine but didn't get a reply.  Thanks for an update if or when you have it.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 27, 2015, 11:55:55 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2015, 10:55:34 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on May 26, 2015, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2015, 02:35:15 PM
Mark, I think that you overreacted. You didn't consider the source of that post. You should know by now that augiefan's shtick is to talk up IWU at each and every opportunity whenever it presents itself. He's done this for years.

This is very true.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2015, 02:35:15 PM
His Lou Holtz routine really doesn't affect what happens on the hardwood, of course, but the program that's won the most CCIW titles since Ron Rose took over at IWU doesn't belong to the school in Bloomington; it belongs to the school in Rock Island. In fact, augiefan's navy blue and gold has won twice as many CCIW titles during the Rose era as has IWU. Or, to put it another way, Augie's won as many CCIW crowns since 2006-07 (inclusive) as have IWU and NCC put together.

This is obviously true too.  However, this span also includes the first 3 years of the Ron Rose era - 2006-07 when he played with the very thin roster he inherited, and 2007-08 and 2008-09 when his first recruits were freshmen and sophomores respectively.

Here is a look at the 6 seasons since (from the point Rose's first recruits were juniors):

Last 6 years, 2009-10 through 2014-15
* Illinois Wesleyan 64-20 CCIW (.762) -- 2 CCIW titles/6 NCAA appear./15 NCAA wins/2 Final Four
* Augustana 57-27 CCIW (.679) -- 2 CCIW titles/3 NCAA appear./8 NCAA wins/1 Final Four


That tells a little different story.

Well, as our retired stats teacher in Ypsilanti would no doubt tell us, statistics are frequently susceptible to time-interval selection bias. That means that someone can often move the statistical parameters forwards or backwards in time in order to fit his or her narrative. We've all done it at one time or another on CCIW Chat, I'm sure. As a matter of fact, by using the same principle an Augustana fan could just as easily make the case for his school's supremacy over Illinois Wesleyan based upon the 2014-15 season alone (especially since that's how we usually measure relative success: one season at a time).

Given all that, I figured that it's just as valid to measure Augie vs. IWU via the Giovanine vs. Rose matchup as by any other time interval.

There is some truth to what you say about Rose inheriting a depleted roster from Trost (although Rose did have Trost recruits Zach Freeman and Darius Gant, and his initial Titans team did finish second in the league in scoring). But, regardless of how fair or unfair it is, Rose still has his name attached to those teams, just as Trost has his name attached to the team he inherited from Dennis Bridges.

I think that is my cue! ;D

I'll basically defend TQ.

What a shock. :D

My cue was for you to come out of retirement and spew forth stats-based terminology, Chuck, not to talk about the 2006-07 Titans. ;)

Quote from: Titan Q on May 28, 2015, 12:01:24 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2015, 10:55:34 PM
There is some truth to what you say about Rose inheriting a depleted roster from Trost (although Rose did have Trost recruits Zach Freeman and Darius Gant, and his initial Titans team did finish second in the league in scoring).

Just FYI, here is what you said about the talent level on that 2006-07 IWU team Rose inherited after you saw the Titans play at North Park. :)

http://sun.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2007/m2-17.htm

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2007, 03:20:43 AM
Saturday night's Titans @ Vikings tilt at the crackerbox was certainly exciting, but it was a terrible game to watch from an aesthetic point of view. While Bob raved about the intensity of the contest -- and, yes, it certainly was intense -- I was left thinking that neither team did much to grace the considerable basketball legacies of their respective schools.

The first half, especially, looked like two middle school teams trying to make a go of it on the court after their cafeterias had each served Meatloaf Surprise during lunch period. NPU made a whole raft of unforced turnovers and, for some inexplicable reason, refused to attempt to penetrate Wesleyan's athletically-challenged perimeter, even after the Titans dropped their zone and the NPU long-distance jumpers stopped falling with regularity. I thought that Paul Brenegan was going to tear out his hair over the passivity of his team, especially since they're usually such a drive-first, ask-questions-later outfit. But, to be fair, the motion offense was working well enough for the Vikes to get some nice looks from the outside. Still, you can't go away from your strength that much, and NPU's strength is in dribble penetration, not outside shooting.

Wesleyan? They simply looked like a shell of the Titans teams that in the past were as often as not the most feared teams in the CCIW. It was as if Zach Freeman had been tacked onto some other CCIW school's JV squad.

My first thought was ... well, pat myself on the back or not, that was a fun game recap to read. Meatloaf Surprise in the cafeteria? One of my better ones. ;)

But, hey, I wasn't disagreeing with you about the inadequacies of Ron Rose's first Titans team. Yes, I pointed out that that team had Freeman and Gant, and that it scored a lot of points. But I also used the words "depleted roster" to describe that team.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

AndOne

#40446
Quote from: bbfan44 on May 28, 2015, 03:39:47 PM
I'm enjoying the off-season discussion.  Thanks all for the interest in keeping it going with good questions and good answers.
Does anyone have current info on the open gym summer basketball reported to be at Benedictine and Elmhurst?  I emailed Benedictine but didn't get a reply.  Thanks for an update if or when you have it.

Open summer league will begin Mon, 6/1.

Teams participating will be--Augustana, Aurora, Benedictine, Elmhurst, IL Institute of Technology, IL Wesleyan, Judson U, North Central, Roosevelt U, and Wheaton.
Not all teams may be present on every date. At least not full teams, meaning 5 players.

* All games will be house rules by the team running the site.
* Schools can divide into separate teams of 5 on site. I believe this means, depending on what players show up on any given night, that teams may be comprised of players from different schools.
* There will be no officials, scoreboards, or time clocks. CALL YOUR OWN FOULS.
* Games will run from 5:30 to 8:00 UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED.

SCHEDULE:

6/1-Benedictine
6/3-Open date
6/8-Benedictine
6/10-Open
6/11-Elmhurst (4:30-7:00)
6/15-Benedictine
6/17-Open
6/18-Elmhurst (4:30-7:00)
6/22-Open
6/24-Elmhurst
6/29-Illinois Tech (7:00-9:00)--3040 S. Wabash, Chicago. (PARKING UNDER TRACKS)
7/1-Open
7/2-Elmhurst (4:30-7:00)
7/6-IL Tech (7:00-9:00)
7/7-Open
7/9-Elmhurst (4:30-7:00)
7/13-IL Tech (7:00-9:00)
7/15-Open
7/20, 7/22, 7/27, 7/29, 8/3, 8/6, & 8/10--All @ Elmhurst

I'm not sure why the open dates are listed other than to suggest the possibility that games may be added on the listed dates.

Gregory Sager

A couple more freshman deposits for NPU:

Adam Sönnerås, 6'4, Kungsbacka, Sweden (SBBK)
Tim Townsell, 6'1, South Holland, IL (Seton)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

bbfan44

AndOne, thanks very much for the info on the summer playing !

AndOne

Welcome. No prob.
Interesting that Augie has now, apparently, also left the Deerfield JOG league unless they are playing in both leagues. NCC, Elmhurst, and IWU did so last summer. This is the first time Wheaton has participated-at least in many a moon. They never played at Deerfield as they never really had enough local players to take part. Either they have more local kids now or some of their out of staters might be planning to be in town this summer.
Also of note is the addition of Roosevelt, and especially IIT with IIT even hosting on 3 evenings. I suspect head coach Todd Kelly's past association with NCC and the CCIW might have a lot to do with that.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: AndOne on May 29, 2015, 11:00:37 AM
Welcome. No prob.
Interesting that Augie has now, apparently, also left the Deerfield JOG league unless they are playing in both leagues. NCC, Elmhurst, and IWU did so last summer. This is the first time Wheaton has participated-at least in many a moon. They never played at Deerfield as they never really had enough local players to take part. Either they have more local kids now or some of their out of staters might be planning to be in town this summer.

The only local players on last year's Wheaton roster were Ricky Samuelson (Northfield) and Trevor Leach (Naperville). Whether or not there are Wheaton out-of-staters who are around this summer, I think it's likely that Wheaton will use alumni players and/or integrate players from other schools onto that summer-league team.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

kiko

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 28, 2015, 06:02:14 PM
A couple more freshman deposits for NPU:

Adam Sönnerås, 6'4, Kungsbacka, Sweden (SBBK)
Tim Townsell, 6'1, South Holland, IL (Seton)

We're gonna have to get Connor Raridon a special edition "Råridön" jersey for the game at the Crackerbox next year just to confuse the locals...

Gregory Sager

Really? I had no idea that Connor deviated from the family norm and pronounced his last name as "ROHR--ee--dehln".

I guess it's true what they say about the youngest child being the special one.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

matblake

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 29, 2015, 10:30:45 PM
Really? I had no idea that Connor deviated from the family norm and pronounced his last name as "ROHR--ee--dehln".

Ah, phonetic English of Swedish spelling.  Very useful for english speaking singers when participating in a St. Lucia chorus.

Gregory Sager

#40454
Phonetic spelling is also useful for broadcasters and P.A. announcers, which is why it's always nice to see SIDs publish them in game notes for the media. I won't know until Adam's actually on campus and can tell me himself, but I'm guessing that he pronounces it "SEHN-ner-rose",  with the 's' in 'rose' pronounced like a true 's' rather than like a 'z' (just like the 's' in 'Wesleyan', as Bob likes to point out ;)). It's tricky, because there's actually three different ways in Swedish to pronounce the vowel 'ö'.

Swedes have the world's most boring last names -- the eleven most common Swedish surnames (Andersson, Johansson, Karlsson, Nilsson, Eriksson, Larsson, Olsson, Persson, Svensson, Gustafsson, and Pettersson) account for over one-fifth of Sweden's total population. But every now and then they'll throw you a curve, like "Sönnerås".

I take the pronunciation of players' names seriously, not just for the sake of being professional but because family members listen to the broadcasts. I try whenever possible to get the proper pronunciation of opposing players from the other team's coaches before a game, and I put some time into trying to negotiate some of the tougher names on NPU's own rosters (such as the various Samoans on the North Park football team -- Samoan names can be a headache for a non-Samoan to pronounce -- or the point guard on NPU's women's basketball team, Nikki Przybyslawski). Sometimes I get a name wrong, and I always welcome a correction from a listener if I've mispronounced somebody's name. But I always try to put in the effort to get the name right the first time.



"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell