Bad call on MNF

Started by Teamski, September 25, 2012, 02:09:43 AM

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Teamski

Wow, I know the announcers keep saying that using Division III replacement officials in the NFL is ruining the sport.  The final call in tonight's MNF game between Green Bay and Seattle could not have been officiated by DIII officials.  I have never seen one make such a bad call!!  A pure travesty.

-Ski
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FCGrizzliesGrad

To me it was a rather subjective call because I believe both got a hold of the ball at the same time but the defender had more possession of the ball. Without the rules I would have said interception but the rules made it more subjective. Did he have possession before the receiver had partial possession? Did the receiver have possession at all? Tough call and that showed by one ref signaling TD while the other calling touchback. What was terrible on that play wasn't the final decision but the fact that they didn't call offensive pass interference. When you two handed shove a guy out of the way before you jump for the ball that should be penalized even if it's a final play hail mary.

I don't mind the refs messing the occasional subjective call (the regular refs probably wouldn't make as many errors but they'd still make errors) or taking a bit of extra time in trying to figure stuff out... it's all the basic stuff they're screwing up that's terrible. How do you call a penalty that should be 5 yards and mark off 12? (Den-Atl) Or forget which side of the field the line of scrimmage was on to mark off a penalty? (Det-Ten) Or call illegal blocking on a team that is kicking off, which they eventually picked up after talking it over? (SF-Min) It's those kinds of things that any ref at any level should be able to handle which is harming the game.
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Pat posted this on Facebook this morning:

'You're probably hearing a lot of people blaming "Division III refs" for what's going on in the NFL these days, as if only Division III refs were calling these games. Truth is Monday night's game featured two Division II officials, a Big 12 official, two Texas HS officials and a California HS/junior college officials.'

ExTartanPlayer

Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on September 25, 2012, 03:04:53 AM
I don't mind the refs messing the occasional subjective call (the regular refs probably wouldn't make as many errors but they'd still make errors) or taking a bit of extra time in trying to figure stuff out... it's all the basic stuff they're screwing up that's terrible. How do you call a penalty that should be 5 yards and mark off 12? (Den-Atl) Or forget which side of the field the line of scrimmage was on to mark off a penalty? (Det-Ten) Or call illegal blocking on a team that is kicking off, which they eventually picked up after talking it over? (SF-Min) It's those kinds of things that any ref at any level should be able to handle which is harming the game.

+1.  This is the stuff that's more puzzling, because it has nothing to do with "speed of the game" or differences in the rulebook between NFL and college.
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wally_wabash

I just set out on a research project to find out where the NFL's replacement officials came from because I'm getting as annoyed as the rest of you that "D-III Official" has turned into a synonym for incompetence.  As it turns out, most of these dudes are next to anonymous.  I thought this would be a quick project, but it's going to take time. 

Mainly what I'm after is to get a percentage of the NFL's current officials that came from Division III.  I don't think anybody has done the arithmetic on that just yet and it probably needs to be done.  If the WWL (and everybody else really) is going to smear these officials, they should at least be force fed some demographics about the NFL's replacement officials. 
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crufootball

I know this is slightly off the topic but is anyone else not feeling to sorry for the Packers since if any of the defenders batted the ball away then there is no question who caught it?

Ron Boerger

You intercept the ball, you should get the ball.   Not a Packers fan but also not a fan of major home-crowd induced screwjobs.

The head guy last night, Wayne Elliott, is executive director of the Austin Football Officials Association.  Until a little while ago his email address AND cell phone number were out there for everyone to see on the AFOA site.   ;D

wally_wabash

Quote from: crufootball on September 25, 2012, 11:08:27 AM
I know this is slightly off the topic but is anyone else not feeling to sorry for the Packers since if any of the defenders batted the ball away then there is no question who caught it?

Yes, but that doesn't let the game officials off the hook for not seeing who caught the ball. 

In baseball, sometimes you'll see somebody try to stretch a single into a double or run through a stop sign at third base and make it home (or wherever) safely.  Probably the wrong play to run through a stop sign, but you can't call a guy out on principle.  Same thing here.  The GB DB probably made the wrong play, but he did make the play. 
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smedindy

It's hard to fight instinct on that play and catch the ball. Plus in a scrum like that a deflection could have legally landed in Seahawk hands.

crufootball

Quote from: wally_wabash on September 25, 2012, 11:18:47 AM
Quote from: crufootball on September 25, 2012, 11:08:27 AM
I know this is slightly off the topic but is anyone else not feeling to sorry for the Packers since if any of the defenders batted the ball away then there is no question who caught it?

Yes, but that doesn't let the game officials off the hook for not seeing who caught the ball. 

In baseball, sometimes you'll see somebody try to stretch a single into a double or run through a stop sign at third base and make it home (or wherever) safely.  Probably the wrong play to run through a stop sign, but you can't call a guy out on principle.  Same thing here.  The GB DB probably made the wrong play, but he did make the play.

Definitely doesn't let them off the hook, even if you think it was an interception the officials did themselves no favors with them saying two different calls when they were standing right next to each other.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: wally_wabash on September 25, 2012, 10:49:25 AM
I just set out on a research project to find out where the NFL's replacement officials came from because I'm getting as annoyed as the rest of you that "D-III Official" has turned into a synonym for incompetence.  As it turns out, most of these dudes are next to anonymous.  I thought this would be a quick project, but it's going to take time. 

Agreed. I had the same thought about a week ago and it was just really difficult. I did piece together last night's crew, with the exception of one guy, but even that took time.
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Pat Coleman

Quote from: smedindy on September 25, 2012, 11:23:29 AM
It's hard to fight instinct on that play and catch the ball. Plus in a scrum like that a deflection could have legally landed in Seahawk hands.

As it did in the Titans/Lions game, if I remember correctly.
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frank uible

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wally_wabash

Here's what an SI writer found about the background of the crew that worked the MNF game.  It doesn't look like any of the guys on that crew are "D3 officials".  The more I dig into in this, the more I'm finding that an awful lot of the guys on these replacement assignments are primarily high school officials.  The blanket "D3 official" statement is actually giving the replacements more professional credit than a lot of them deserve. 
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bashbrother

#14
Quote from: wally_wabash on September 25, 2012, 04:10:53 PM
Here's what an SI writer found about the background of the crew that worked the MNF game.  It doesn't look like any of the guys on that crew are "D3 officials".  The more I dig into in this, the more I'm finding that an awful lot of the guys on these replacement assignments are primarily high school officials.  The blanket "D3 official" statement is actually giving the replacements more professional credit than a lot of them deserve.

In researching the officials last night right after the game,  I actually came across a Referees Association Website in Texas, this site listed the name of the Official that "went under the replay hood" on the field.  It also listed his cell phone number....  I obviously didn't post or publish it anywhere, but I have a feeling that this was a busy cell phone today.   The site also listed that he had collegiate and high school experience.   

You cannot put a high school official on the field with professional athletes and expect them to succeed.  I do believe that these guys are doing the best they can, in impossible circumstances.   It is up to the league to fix this.

I also believe the NCAA Div. 3 office should contact the major networks and tell them to get their story straight...... (if it is not true) on where these refs are coming from.   It does not look good for the Division as a whole.

What a mess.
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