MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: bopol on February 16, 2017, 06:14:28 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on February 13, 2017, 10:24:36 PM
Greg,

All good points.  And I understand that there are three games to go and a lot can still happen, but using the eye test, if the CCIW is less than a two bid league, as some have intimated, would be criminal IMHO.

Teams get Pool C, not conferences.  Right now, I think the CCIW has 4 teams that would be on the bubble (Augie, Carthage, IWU and North Park) with Augie in the best shape.  Each is slightly flawed, but I think there are only about 8-10 almost sure thing Pool C teams.  It will be very interesting what happens once those teams (and any bubble bursters) are off the table.  If I were to guess, the biggest problem will be coming up with a clear order for the CCIW teams if chaos reigns and the teams hit conference tournament all with identical 18-7 records.

This will be fun.

Yeah... every one knows conferences don't get bids, but it is well understood in these boards that when someone says "is a two-bid conference" they are saying how many teams one expects to be in the tournament from said conference.

And all four of those teams can't be on the bubble with how things work with selections. I think Carthage has no chance unless they win... I think North Park now has no chance... IWU is on the wrong side looking in... and Augie is in a dangerous spot - if any of them are looking for a Pool C chance. Subject to change as games around the country even before AQs are handed out affect rankings each week. But that is how I have been reading the tea leaves through the first two rankings. And I know it is being thought, I do not think an at-large team will get to the table or be selected that isn't regionally ranked.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

4samuy

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2017, 12:06:37 AM
Don't count out North Park just yet. If the Vikes beat Augie in the crackerbox on Saturday and then finish up with a home win over Millikin next Tuesday, they can claim a share of first place with an IWU win over Augie in Shirk on Tuesday. The fly in the ointment is Carthage, which is tied with NPU and owns the tiebreaker over the Vikings and the three-way tiebreaker between themselves, NPU, and Augie. However, the Red Men don't have a cakewalk ahead of them, either; while they do have the benefit of a home game against Millikin on Saturday, they'll have the o end the regular season with a contest against a white-hot Wheaton team in Tarble next Tuesday, a game which could mean life or death for the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance.

So NPU still has a shot at hosting. First things first, though -- the Vikes have to take care of business on Saturday night.

Totally agree. My thoughts were mainly that there is a real chance Augie could lose both and with Millikin still on the schedule for NPU and Carthage they would both win out and as you mentioned Carthage would win the three way tie breaker. Yes Wheaton will be a tough for Carthage at home due to the way wheatons been playing.  A lot would have to fall into place for NPU to host and that starts Saturday.  You may even see me at the Cracker box.

4samuy

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2017, 01:09:31 PM
Quote from: lmitzel on February 16, 2017, 12:58:23 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2017, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: lmitzel on February 16, 2017, 09:26:50 AMIt's closer than I thought before I looked at all the numbers, but I don't see an objective argument based purely on the stats to say Francis deserves it more than Robinson. You could maybe make the argument that Francis is doing more with less, and dragging Wheaton into contention compared to what Robinson has around him to get the Vikings to their first CCIW Tournament (barring a complete collapse on Saturday and Tuesday).

Given the team that NPU's had to put on the floor over the past five games, this is not as clear-cut an argument as it sounds.

This is actually a pretty good point that I didn't expand on, because I figured a full season of Francis all but carrying the Thunder to where they're at didn't quite weigh the same as Juwan Henry missing a handful of games, but it's definitely a factor when you consider the Vikings are 1-3 in games Henry hasn't played (though in fairness, that may hamper the argument a little bit, but not enough to swing the award).

Realistically, though, it's more like 2-3. Juwan only played four minutes last night and took a grand total of one shot (which he missed). Given that his only practice since his injury was on Tuesday, there was never really a chance that he was going to play any role in last night's game other than a brief opening cameo for psychological purposes. As I said, Jordan Robinson didn't have an impressive statistical game by his standards, but all of that double-teaming of Robinson by the Pios obviously opened up the floor for Colin Lake and T.J. Cobbs, who netted 19 points apiece in a low-scoring, deliberately-paced game.

Cobbs is a junk yard dog. That is total compliment.  I noticed it when I saw him live this year at Illinois tech.

markerickson

#44958
I too am intrigued by Mr. Francis.  He earned a ton of accolades during HS down in his region of Texas (Tyler) while attending a private Christian school.  His junior year's highlight reel, a year in which he averaged 22.4ppg, shows a slew of treys well beyond the stripe.  He attended Tyler CC where he averaged 4.5ppg with only one start on a .500 team.  He arrives at Wheaton and we all know what he's accomplished there.  I wonder why he chose a CC instead of Wheaton and why he failed to thrive as a frosh.
Once a metalhead, always a metalhead.  Matthew 5:13.

bopol

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2017, 06:51:31 PM
Quote from: bopol on February 16, 2017, 06:14:28 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on February 13, 2017, 10:24:36 PM
Greg,

All good points.  And I understand that there are three games to go and a lot can still happen, but using the eye test, if the CCIW is less than a two bid league, as some have intimated, would be criminal IMHO.

Teams get Pool C, not conferences.  Right now, I think the CCIW has 4 teams that would be on the bubble (Augie, Carthage, IWU and North Park) with Augie in the best shape.  Each is slightly flawed, but I think there are only about 8-10 almost sure thing Pool C teams.  It will be very interesting what happens once those teams (and any bubble bursters) are off the table.  If I were to guess, the biggest problem will be coming up with a clear order for the CCIW teams if chaos reigns and the teams hit conference tournament all with identical 18-7 records.

This will be fun.

Yeah... every one knows conferences don't get bids, but it is well understood in these boards that when someone says "is a two-bid conference" they are saying how many teams one expects to be in the tournament from said conference.

And all four of those teams can't be on the bubble with how things work with selections. I think Carthage has no chance unless they win... I think North Park now has no chance... IWU is on the wrong side looking in... and Augie is in a dangerous spot - if any of them are looking for a Pool C chance. Subject to change as games around the country even before AQs are handed out affect rankings each week. But that is how I have been reading the tea leaves through the first two rankings. And I know it is being thought, I do not think an at-large team will get to the table or be selected that isn't regionally ranked.

Thanks for interpreting what was said that I commented on.  A good reminder on why I stopped posting here.

All four teams can be on the bubble at the moment - though I tend to agree with you on North Park; I doubt the committee will consider the injuries.  The thing is: right now, I only see 12 Pool C teams ahead of the CCIW group. 

The Northeast is loaded and you can make strong arguments for 4 NESCAC teams (assuming the fifth takes a Pool A).  In the east you have Rochester.  In Atlantic, Cabrini.  In the Mid-Atlantic, Salisbury.  In the South, Concordia.  In Great Lakes, John Carroll.  In the Central, Whitewater and Eau Claire.  In the West, Whitworth. 

Then you get to the flawed teams: Scranton, the loser of Brockport/Oswego, MIT, Keene St, Mt. St. Joseph, Wooster and the CCIW teams.  Of course, there will be bubble busters, but I could see (if things go as expected) the loser of the CCIW tournament having a pretty reasonable chance at a Pool C - though I don't think any of Carthage/IWU/North Park can afford a loss until then.

Now, with that said, do me a favor.  Don't reply to my posts. 

Titan Q

Quote from: iwumichigander on February 16, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
I did think Wheaton out hustled,,or at least quicker to the loose ball, than IWU last night. 

Two very different things.

Quicker? Yes. Wheaton is a quicker team than IWU and everyone knows that.

Out-hustled? If that is what you're saying I think it's a really, really crappy thing to say...and inaccurate.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: dennis_prikkel on February 16, 2017, 05:49:38 PM
Add Leon Gobczynski, Millikin junior 1974 to the MOP list.

Good catch, Dennis.

Junior CCIW MOPs

Jesse Price  Millikin  1968
John Laing  Augustana  1972
Leon Gobczynski  Millikin  1974
Jack Sikma  Illinois Wesleyan  1976
Michael Harper  North Park  1979
Michael Starks  North Park  1987
Jeff Kuehl  Illinois Wesleyan  1989
Chris Simich  Illinois Wesleyan  1995
Wesley Pitts  Wheaton  1996
Korey Coon*  Illinois Wesleyan  1999
Antoine McDaniel  Carthage  2002
Adam Dauksas  Illinois Wesleyan  2005
Kent Raymond  Wheaton  2008
Steve Djurickovic  Carthage  2010
Hunter Hill*  Augustana  2015

Sophomore CCIW MOPs
Jack Sikma  Illinois Wesleyan  1976
Michael Harper  North Park  1978
Jason Wiertel*  Carthage  2000
Kent Raymond  Wheaton  2007

*Co-MOP
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Titan Q

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2017, 09:53:26 PM
Quote from: dennis_prikkel on February 16, 2017, 05:49:38 PM
Add Leon Gobczynski, Millikin junior 1974 to the MOP list.

Good catch, Dennis.

Junior CCIW MOPs

Jesse Price  Millikin  1968
John Laing  Augustana  1972
Leon Gobczynski  Millikin  1974
Jack Sikma  Illinois Wesleyan  1976
Michael Harper  North Park  1979
Michael Starks  North Park  1987
Jeff Kuehl  Illinois Wesleyan  1989
Chris Simich  Illinois Wesleyan  1995
Wesley Pitts  Wheaton  1996
Korey Coon*  Illinois Wesleyan  1999
Antoine McDaniel  Carthage  2002
Adam Dauksas  Illinois Wesleyan  2005
Kent Raymond  Wheaton  2008
Steve Djurickovic  Carthage  2010
Hunter Hill*  Augustana  2015

Sophomore CCIW MOPs
Jack Sikma  Illinois Wesleyan  1976
Michael Harper  North Park  1978
Jason Wiertel*  Carthage  2000
Kent Raymond  Wheaton  2007

*Co-MOP

Missing Keelan Amelianovich as a sophomore.

cardinalpride

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2017, 09:53:26 PM
Quote from: dennis_prikkel on February 16, 2017, 05:49:38 PM
Add Leon Gobczynski, Millikin junior 1974 to the MOP list.

Good catch, Dennis.

Junior CCIW MOPs

Jesse Price  Millikin  1968
John Laing  Augustana  1972
Leon Gobczynski  Millikin  1974
Jack Sikma  Illinois Wesleyan  1976
Michael Harper  North Park  1979
Michael Starks  North Park  1987
Jeff Kuehl  Illinois Wesleyan  1989
Chris Simich  Illinois Wesleyan  1995
Wesley Pitts  Wheaton  1996
Korey Coon*  Illinois Wesleyan  1999
Antoine McDaniel  Carthage  2002
Adam Dauksas  Illinois Wesleyan  2005
Kent Raymond  Wheaton  2008
Steve Djurickovic  Carthage  2010
Hunter Hill*  Augustana  2015

Sophomore CCIW MOPs
Jack Sikma  Illinois Wesleyan  1976
Michael Harper  North Park  1978
Jason Wiertel*  Carthage  2000
Kent Raymond  Wheaton  2007

*Co-MOP
Add Alonzo Alexander- NCC 1992 to the junior list.
CARDINAL PRIDE STARTS WITH ME!

Titan Q

Quote from: markerickson on February 16, 2017, 07:55:19 PM
I too am intrigued by Mr. Francis.  He earned a ton of accolades during HS down in his region of Texas (Tyler) while attending a private Christian school.  His junior year's highlight reel, a year in which he averaged 22.4ppg, shows a slew of treys well beyond the stripe.  He attended Tyler CC where he averaged 4.5ppg with only one start on a .500 team.  He arrives at Wheaton and we all know what he's accomplished there.  I wonder why he chose a CC instead of Wheaton and why he failed to thrive as a frosh.

I think Francis is a mid-major Division I player.  In all my years watching the CCIW, I have never seen a better, more dangerous 3-point shooter.

Gregory Sager

#44965
Ha! I went back to the list that I posted before I posted the list with Amelianovich added.

Quote from: cardinalpride on February 16, 2017, 09:59:14 PM
Add Alonzo Alexander- NCC 1992 to the junior list.

Another good catch.

FINAL, ULTIMATE, COMPLETE LIST OF NON-SENIOR MOPs

Junior CCIW MOPs

Jesse Price  Millikin  1968
John Laing  Augustana  1972
Leon Gobczynski  Millikin  1974
Jack Sikma  Illinois Wesleyan  1976
Michael Harper  North Park  1979
Michael Starks  North Park  1987
Jeff Kuehl  Illinois Wesleyan  1989
Alonzo Alexander  North Central  1993
Chris Simich  Illinois Wesleyan  1995
Wesley Pitts  Wheaton  1996
Korey Coon*  Illinois Wesleyan  1999
Antoine McDaniel  Carthage  2002
Adam Dauksas  Illinois Wesleyan  2005
Kent Raymond  Wheaton  2008
Steve Djurickovic  Carthage  2010
Hunter Hill*  Augustana  2015

Sophomore CCIW MOPs
Jack Sikma  Illinois Wesleyan  1975
Michael Harper  North Park  1978
Jason Wiertel*  Carthage  2000
Keelan Amelianovich  Illinois Wesleyan  2004
Kent Raymond  Wheaton  2007

*Co-MOP

"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

AndOne

Quote from: Titan Q on February 16, 2017, 09:38:58 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on February 16, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
I did think Wheaton out hustled,,or at least quicker to the loose ball, than IWU last night. 

Two very different things.

Quicker? Yes. Wheaton is a quicker team than IWU and everyone knows that.

Out-hustled? If that is what you're saying I think it's a really, really crappy thing to say...and inaccurate.


iwumichigander,

Congratulations. Not just a plain 'ol ordinary really crappy thing to say, but a DOUBLE really crappy thing! +1 for sure.  8-)
But be careful. Any more of such behavior and you might join the Deltas on DOUBLE secret probation.  ;)

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2017, 10:05:08 PM
Ha! I went back to the list that I posted before I posted the list with Amelianovich added.

Quote from: cardinalpride on February 16, 2017, 09:59:14 PM
Add Alonzo Alexander- NCC 1992 to the junior list.

Another good catch.

FINAL, ULTIMATE, COMPLETE LIST OF NON-SENIOR MOPs

Junior CCIW MOPs

Jesse Price  Millikin  1968
John Laing  Augustana  1972
Leon Gobczynski  Millikin  1974
Jack Sikma  Illinois Wesleyan  1976
Michael Harper  North Park  1979
Michael Starks  North Park  1987
Jeff Kuehl  Illinois Wesleyan  1989
Alonzo Alexander  North Central  1993
Chris Simich  Illinois Wesleyan  1995
Wesley Pitts  Wheaton  1996
Korey Coon*  Illinois Wesleyan  1999
Antoine McDaniel  Carthage  2002
Adam Dauksas  Illinois Wesleyan  2005
Kent Raymond  Wheaton  2008
Steve Djurickovic  Carthage  2010
Hunter Hill*  Augustana  2015

Sophomore CCIW MOPs
Jack Sikma  Illinois Wesleyan  1976
Michael Harper  North Park  1978
Jason Wiertel*  Carthage  2000
Keelan Amelianovich  Illinois Wesleyan  2004
Kent Raymond  Wheaton  2007

*Co-MOP

Two minor quibbles: Jack Sikma as a sophomore should be 1975, not 1976; and the ONLY reason Jesse Price didn't win as a sophomore in 1967 was because of the technicality that the award didn't start until 1968! ;D

sac

I don't know how much of a real shot Wheaton has at making your tournament but if they do along with North Park and Carthage.  That would make 3 teams that finished 5th, 6th and 8th last year finishing in the top four.  Other leagues just don't have that kind of turnover, very rare imo.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2017, 10:43:46 PM
Two minor quibbles: Jack Sikma as a sophomore should be 1975, not 1976; and the ONLY reason Jesse Price didn't win as a sophomore in 1967 was because of the technicality that the award didn't start until 1968! ;D

The first quibble is a valid point (I've corrected it). The second quibble is a counterfactual, and therefore not really relevant to the issue at hand of identifying past non-senior MOP winners.

Quote from: sac on February 16, 2017, 10:51:03 PM
I don't know how much of a real shot Wheaton has at making your tournament but if they do along with North Park and Carthage.  That would make 3 teams that finished 5th, 6th and 8th last year finishing in the top four.  Other leagues just don't have that kind of turnover, very rare imo.

The CCIW's churn is part of what makes the league so exciting, and, honestly, part of what makes it so good as well.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell