D3boards.com

Division III basketball (Posting Up) => Men's Basketball => Region 3 men's basketball => Topic started by: boobyhasgameyo on March 12, 2005, 12:24:53 AM

Title: Empire 8
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on March 12, 2005, 12:24:53 AM
bailed out Rochester?..... Showed again they are the team to beat in the area? That's alot of Talk for a team that didn't play Fisher this year, you have no idea how you would have faired against them.  They had an off night and they payed for it.  Please don't be a jerk and ruin it for me, you are making it really hard for me to cheer for you guys...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Not In The Bulb on March 12, 2005, 12:38:39 AM
RespectHartwick, if for no other reason I must  commend you on the sheer size of the onions you must have to come on here and talk junk about a team that went 28-1 and 14-0 in their conference. Let me remind you, in case you did forget, your team went 2-24 and 0-14 in the conference. That's right, you were only trailing the conference champ by a mere 14 games at season's end. Nothing to be ashamed of at all.

You STILL have not provided ANY names of this vaunted incoming class. Unless your school is somehow luring Greg Oden out of high school early, you guys have ZERO chance of making the conference tournament next year. I have these questions about your projected rankings for next year.

1)How in God's name will 'Wick finish in front of Alfred? Alfred returns Quentin Bryant(1st Team E-8) and Dillon Stein(2nd Team E-8) and loses exactly ZERO players from their team. Keep in mind they whooped your ass handily twice this year. I can't see this team falling from 5th to 6th next year with their ENTIRE TEAM RETURNING. That's reason #1 you are a douchebag.

2)You're going to edge out Ithaca. Once again, a team that took you to the woodshed on two occasions. The only player of note this team loses is Jesse Roth. A solid core returns, including Jimmy Bellis(2nd Team E-8 this year) and Brian Andruskiewicz(Honorable Mention this year). Add to that role players like Whetstone, Clemente and Brian Joe, still a much a better squad than Hartwick's.

3)Naz is going to come in 7th?!? Really? A team that, again, beat you twice this year and has their ENTIRE team returning is somehow going to lose out to Hartwick. I could throw Joe Canori on the floor with four girls from Naz's women's team and they'd beat the Hawks by 10. If anyone is going to sneak into the E8 Tourney that finished way out of the race this year, it's going to be Naz.

4)You're a moron. Tell me how much we're betting on this Hartwick thing. You need to help put me through grad school. Come on, you're a confident guy, you're on the inside, how much are we betting. Put your money where your mouth is, tough guy.

P.S. Still waiting for the names of this recruiting class.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fishercards on March 12, 2005, 12:46:14 AM
Also, RIT beat U of R without a problem..... We beat RIT ummmmmmm 4 times, not mocking RIT they are a great team, just wanted to make a point. Honestly, I would have loved if Fisher went all the way and won the championship but give credit where its due, Potsdam is a great team they outplayed fisher in every aspect of the game but Fisher has nothing to be ashamed about they did get national coverage in USA today, what coverage has U of R had? Nothin...... dont talk about bringing honor...... I dont hear anyone mocking Illinois for there lost and if they get knocked out of the NCAA tourney should the be ashamed and be told they are over-rated? I think not.. get over it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 12, 2005, 02:32:01 AM
My intramural team has 2 open weekends next winter if Hartwick wants to get some games in?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 12, 2005, 03:23:41 AM
Oh, and one more thing...


Final Empire8 Standings

Fisher (Filet Mignon)
RIT  (Prime Rib)
Utica (London Broil)
Ithaca (Rib Eye)
Reggie Shore (for President)
Alfred (Rib Eye,  a bit fatty)
Naz (Veal? these kids got some time to grow, and can be good)
Elmira (side dish)
Hartwick (Tator Tots)
col (tip your servers)
RespectHartwick (would get served by ChefCol on the court)

Seacrest, out!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Bigdaddy on March 12, 2005, 01:00:58 PM
Congrats fisher on a great season. Even I didnt call for that kind of game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: not josh reed on March 12, 2005, 02:00:15 PM
Congrats to Potsdam on your impressive victory.  Last night you were the better team that wanted the victory worse than the cardinals.  

Wow, what a season Fisher had. Congratulations on such a fine run.  What a memory you all should carry forward in to your future.  Any truth in the rumour that Zahn will begin 4 fresh years of eligibility as a Tight End with Cardinal Football?  
Thanks for the great run!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: empire8fan on March 12, 2005, 05:06:31 PM
not josh reed, Zahn cant.  If he's a senior on the basketball team that probably means he's completed at least 8 semesters.  With D3's 10 semester rule he can only play 2 seasons if plays this fall then sits out spring semester and then returns for the fall.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: not josh reed on March 12, 2005, 06:34:14 PM
Empire8fan, Isn't the elgibility at d3 schools seperate for each sport? I would pay to see Zahn play football, but I was only kidding. Hey Respect Hartwick, you should change your name to Rodney Dangerfield for the amount of respect you and Hartwick will get on here. Better yet if you want respect, change schools, transfer to Fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: not josh reed on March 12, 2005, 10:26:52 PM
A couple more observations on the game last night.  Thought Fisher was going to make a run when Waterloo's homeboy Dan Mueller drained a three, but never shot again.  Another bad omen was Perry's Pete Gillett contributed a beautiful three from behind the halfcourt line only to have it waived off as after the first half buzzer.  Oh well
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: mceod on March 12, 2005, 11:25:12 PM
Takeaway from this weekend.  WHAT WAS THE NCAA THINKING.  Amherst gym not any bigger or not as big as UR's, Potsdam and not much bigger than Fishers (not that it was needed the first game was not a sellout).  Not only did teams travel 5 hours to get to Amherst.  Once at Amherst they where staying 20 minutes from the school (Potsdam and Fisher).  Like playing at the UR and staying in Brockport.  As previously mentioned, no concessions, parking or side walks.  Fisher gets the number one seed then New York teams get the number one shaft.  Headlines, Two New York teams in the finals With the UR going to the final four.

Someone explain to me how the NCAA can make Fisher a number one seed then turn around and say one of the big factors for Amherst hosting is their strength of schedule.

Lets really put this site to good use.  Who do I write in order to express my disappointment.  We all should express our opinon.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on March 12, 2005, 11:29:12 PM
The NCAA doesn't release seedings. D3hoops.com "seeded" the teams based on the criteria.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Bigdaddy on March 14, 2005, 03:27:03 PM
Not only was Amherst not a good facility...but they had a hockey game while we were there on saturday...which further congested already poor conditions.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: oldasdirt on March 14, 2005, 06:04:51 PM
Bulb & Col - great posts.  I'll take Col's intramural team against Respect Hartwicks Hawks-what's the line?  How many points do you have to give Col?  Hate to say this but all year I said that I thought that u of r would do some damage in the tournament.  Congrats to Fisher on a great season!! I think the standings will be quite a bit different next year but Hartwick won't be the team on the rise like Alfred and Nazareth.  RIT loses four contributing seniors and Utica loses some key players like Troy.  I truly believe we will see more parity and a real dog-fight for playoff spots but until I see some concrete evidence I don't think Hartwick will be participating in said fight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 15, 2005, 09:05:31 AM
As for the line...   We're still working out contract details for bringing Coach Olin aboard and, obviously, with that kind of talent we're going to be pushing the salary cap.  I'll reserve comment until after I see if we can sign him.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on March 15, 2005, 10:41:36 AM
Good thing we don't have to pay Sidney and Bennett lucrative contracts anymore...woulda been hard to keep O'Brien with the cap situation :-)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on March 15, 2005, 10:43:22 AM
Don't forget we get Raymie Auman back too (at least to my knowledge). He only played 3 games this year before breaking his wrist, averaged like 18 a game. I believe they redshirted him and he still has a year of eligibility even though he's a senior. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jashoopsfan on March 15, 2005, 10:57:00 AM
Rumor has it that Auman may not play next year if he can't get financial aid for school.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Bigdaddy on March 15, 2005, 06:12:12 PM
So Bulb....as to the E8 vs. SUNYAC discussion...you said previously that the big Potsdam/Fisher match up would give answers to the questions and that you didnt think the ecacs were a good indicator....what are your thoughts now?

SUNYAC takes ECAC and plays an interesting game in the Sweet 16 against Fisher....thoughts?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Superman on March 15, 2005, 08:33:53 PM
I admit that SUNYAC had teh better post season but lets remember Fisher had probably their worse game of the year when your missing open shots than you know it's bad, but nothing aginst Potsdam they did win the game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: RespectHartwick on March 16, 2005, 08:25:05 AM
Folks,

One Team- One Dream Season- One Game

DASHED after 40 minutes of half ass play!  

It must suck walking around Fisher and Rochester knowing you could have won against Potsdam. If only you could have focused harder, played harder, and fought harder. The personnel talent and coaching wasn't the problem, the problem was player cockiness and horrible team attitude when adversity hits. Honestly, Fisher collasped Hartwick style! Sometimes it happens to the best of teams!

Well the season is finished, the records have been set! However, what is missing is the National Championship that got AWAY! Records are nice but they  can be broken. However, tangible NCAA trophies do not go away.  

But luck next year against more improved conference teams
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: The Bear on March 16, 2005, 09:13:15 AM
Fisher had a great run, I fear they would not have been competitive at Salem because of their inside players.  

Rochester has three quality big men, Fisher does not.  You will always face two good big guys at the Final Four level.  

You also can't have any weak links as man-to-man defenders, or they will be exposed quickly.

Besides you were facing the D-III version of the '73 Dolphins jinx, Potsdam will do anything it can to protect the streak and the '86 unbeaten record.

Great season for Fisher and their classy coach.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 16, 2005, 12:43:30 PM
All-Region teams announced on the front page, E8 nicely represented by O'Brien and Sidney on the first team and Troy/Murphy/Bryant on the second team.

I wonder who the "last one out" for the second team was that got bumped in the voting by Adam Turner of Bard. Not to come off as too dismissive of the effort and commitment it takes to devote one's self to Division III basketball yadayadayada...but a Bard player? Really? Seriously? How good could he have been when his team barely won any games against the worst possible competition?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2005, 02:28:59 PM
There was a tie for the last spot. Nobody got bumped -- in fact, an extra person got in. :-)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2005, 03:12:52 PM
It's not exactly the "D3 version of the '73 Dolphins jinx," Bear. Wisconsin-Platteville has logged two undefeated seasons since Potsdam State did it ('95 and '98, to be specific).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 16, 2005, 03:14:31 PM
Besides the 73 Dolphins went 12-2 on the regular season and 15-2 overall.  It was the 72 Dolphins that were undefeated.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2005, 03:16:53 PM
The Bear is a Bills fan, Mike. Like me, he's allergic to Dolphins lore. :-)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 16, 2005, 03:20:54 PM
And here I am a Dolphins fan, stuck in Jets country.  At least I can enjoy watching the Giants.  Another case of hives for The Bear.  :-)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Superman on March 16, 2005, 04:48:36 PM
hey hartwick how does it feel to walk around campus knowing that you won exatcly 0 league games, if you only played harder you might have won one.  We have no worries on fisher we did better and went further than what anyone thought
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: not josh reed on March 16, 2005, 06:58:39 PM
Hey Hartwick you remind me of those pesky little dogs that just yelp and jump all over people.  How can you continue to spew this nonsense about Hartwick. Show some respect for your masters or we will send you to obedience school.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: The Bear on March 16, 2005, 07:15:10 PM
I have been speaking of the New York version on undefeated season.  Fully aware of Bo Ryan's accomplishments at Platteville.

Alas I am an original, since age 12 irrevocable Bills fan.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 16, 2005, 07:29:19 PM
Bear, I am an original Dolphins fan, I have liked them since I was about five or six.  I saw them on tv in the pre Shula days when George Wilson was the coach, they were playing the Jets in Miami and they had flipper in a pool in the end zone.  Flipper made me a Dolphin fan, they had a player you mentioned a few years ago back then, Cookie Gilchrist was on the team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: The Bear on March 16, 2005, 07:35:27 PM
I'm sure Cookie was an interesting character in 1960's miami.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2005, 12:24:06 AM
I've never heard of anyone who thought of Cookie Gilchrist as anything but a Buffalo Bill ... unless they were a Toronto Argonauts fan.

To call Cookie "colorful" would be an understatement of vast proportions, as his ... er ... interesting personal website illustrates.

Here's a somewhat saner take on the turbulent career of one Chester Canton Gilchrist.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Gordon "Marco Scutaro" Mann on March 17, 2005, 02:00:39 AM
Holy moly.  

There's some nuts in that cookie.  

Rimshot!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Bigdaddy on March 25, 2005, 08:15:18 PM
So...hartwick has a lot to say for his teams record....and I am still waiting to hear from Bulb on my last post.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on August 16, 2005, 03:15:27 PM
Checking this new board-
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: skifour3 on October 27, 2005, 07:00:01 PM
St. John Fisher is ranked 5th in the D 3 News poll and Sean O'brien is Pre-season all-American. I'm guessing that is a pretty good honor but what is d3 news????
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on October 28, 2005, 09:38:34 AM
Folks, I would like to apologize for my overly aggressive, zealous, and sometimes antagonistic posts on this board. I have finally come to my senses that Hartwick Basketball isn't as good as I portray them to be. Hartwick Basketball has been hit hard by graduation and attrition. Hartwick Basketball will compete this season without two key veterans who have let the program and two key recruits who have left Hartwick (Due to homesickness). It is going to be a long year for Hartwick Basketball fans!

Please Accept My Apology, particulary those of you in Rochester (ie Fisher, Naz, Rit)!

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 01, 2005, 03:54:41 PM
Getting things started on the new E8 board. Here are my predictions for how the standings will play out. Obviously, this is subject to change:

8)Elmira-Lost their best player and were already one of the worst squads in the conference. Guys like Micah Owens are going to have to step it up if this team is going to do anything. Will probably beat one of the top four once at some point, but other than that this team will have trouble competing night in and night out.

7)Hartwick-Showed some very small signs of progress at the end of last year. Played Fisher close for a little while in their home gym. Greg Betancourt is a star in the making. Should have enough to overtake Elmira and get out of the E8 basement.

6)Utica-Justin Cichon returns for what seems like his 10th season with the Pioneers. If it weren't for Sean O'Brien, Cichon would likely be the pre-season POY. The loss of Tim Troy, the best rebounder in the conference and certainly the most orotund as well, will hurt the Pioneers. Teams will now be able to focus more attention on Cichon. Utica excelled in 2nd chance points with Troy down low, now that he is gone they have to find scoring in other places. Point guard Brian Collier looks to make the next step and become one of the best in the conference.

5)RIT- A team that loses four starters, including two of the best in the E8 in Kyle Goff and Sean Murphy. Jesse Foote is gone, as well, but expect Tim Bacon, who has seen significant playing time in the past, to fill that void well. The question here centers around who will pick up the scoring load, now that 40 points/game has moved on. Will Fran Snyder shake the injuries that hampered him last season? Who will play point guard now that Reggie Shore has moved on? A lot of questions on this team but McVean is a good coach and will tailor his style around the talent he has. Drew Martin is a top defender and, if Brian Hill can continue to improve, this team could sneak into the E8 tournament.

4)Nazareth-The biggest leap from last season. Joe Canori will assert himself as one of the top guards--and players--in the E8. Ryan McAdam will continue to improve, as will fellow sophomores Brian Ameneiros, Kyle Nelson and Tyler Smith who stepped up towards the end of the season. Nick Bozzelli should see some time in the frontcourt and will be one of the top freshmen in the league. Caswell Smith and Matt Groot provide dependable role players for the Golden Flyers. This team is probably a year away from challenging Fisher, but should come along nicely this year and make the E8 tournament.

3)Ithaca- A solid core returns for the Bombers. Jimmy Bellis is one of the best and most athletic players in the conference and will be the defensive focus for Ithaca opponents. Brian Andruskiewicz is one of the best low-post players in the league and should be primed for a big season; his numbers have improved in each of his first three seasons. Jon Whetstone has full reins on the point guard duties now that Nate Thomas has graduated. Sean Stahn has showed intriguing glimpses of potential and will step into a starting role at power forward in 2005.  Brad Clemente will have to fill the shoes, defensively, of departed Jesse Roth. Sophomore Brian Joe supplies a reliable long-distance threat off the bench. The Bombers hope one or two of their underclassmen will fill out their rotation and provide the team with adequate depth.

2)Alfred- This team returns every player from last year's team. Forward Dillon Stein and senior guard Quentin Bryant anchor the Saxons, offensively. Role players abound in Ryan Clemenson, Chris LeMasters and Ryan Hallett. Quality depth is present, as well, making this Saxons team a shoe-in for the E8 tournament. Alfred will test themselves early, traveling to Rochester for their first game to take on UR in the Yellow Jackets own tournament. Alfred will test themselves against SUNYAC opponents Geneseo, Cortland and defending champ Potsdam before getting into conference play.

1)Fisher-The Cards once again reload and should be the class of the league again, despite the departures of 2004-05 E8 Player of the Year Jeff Sidney and all-everything forward Nick Bennett. Sean O'Brien returns for #5 St.John Fisher, and should be pre-season POY. Raymie Auman returns after missing the majority of last season with an injury. Auman, a senior, was a starter before his injury, which paved the way for Jeff Sidney's huge senior campaign. Sharpshooter Mike McGee returns to provide the Cardinals with an outside threat, along with junior Dan Mueller. Justin Beigel leads a talented crop of sophomores and freshmen for the conference favorites. Junior Dan McSweeney returns to defend the lane. Expect the Cards to win the conference rather easily but another undefeated conference season may be out of the realm of possibility considering who they've lost and the gains made by other conference opponents. Rochesterians wish Fisher would take on Brockport this year, but Fisher has another soft pre-conference schedule, the lone exception being when the Cardinals travel to Virginia for the Randolph Macon tournament.

________________________________________________________

Others, feel free to chime in. This is just one person's opinion of how the season will shake out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on November 02, 2005, 11:05:24 AM
Just for the record Bennet is coming back this year.He had one more year of eligibilty
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on November 02, 2005, 11:11:45 AM
Bennett from what I'm told did graduate but he's got eligibity left so he's taking graduate courses. Almost a Matt Leinhart-type scenario where you're taking one or two classes and getting to spend most of your time on athletics.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 02, 2005, 03:39:30 PM
Are you sure about Bennett? He's not on the 2005-06 roster, unless they're going to pull a Willis Reed and run onto the court during warm-ups of their first game. Plus, they did all the Senior Night festivities last year and he was a part of that.

I thought he was leaving school a year early so he could start working and making money.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on November 03, 2005, 09:01:20 AM
Positive he is coming back in the second semester
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 09, 2005, 03:50:59 PM
Interesting...makes Fisher even more of a strong favorite to win the conference. Not sure if they'll be undefeated again in the conference, but should be real close.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcpk18 on November 09, 2005, 08:34:47 PM
Fisher's Bball team will provide a lot of excitement for Rochestarians this year.  I can't wait to hear the first "I Believe" chant of the year, and watch Coach K lead his team to another Empire 8 crown.  Teams will continue to have match-up problems throughout the year, think how far they may go if everyone stays healty.  Good Luck boys. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on November 12, 2005, 02:40:04 AM
Gobombers, Bennett's on the roster now....not sure when you looked at it last. Fisher just updated their athletics website either yesterday or today...it looks great!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on November 13, 2005, 09:06:31 AM
Here's the E8 Coaches Poll..... http://empire8.com/111105-1.html ..... a little different than GoBombers predictions....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 14, 2005, 04:30:41 PM
Quote from: lileyes on November 13, 2005, 09:06:31 AM
Here's the E8 Coaches Poll..... http://empire8.com/111105-1.html ..... a little different than GoBombers predictions....

The only prominent difference is they have Utica finishing second whereas I have them sixth(even so, I figured they'd pretty much be the same as RIT so the 5-6 slot was interchangable). The coaches apparently see something in Utica that I didn't. I was of the thinking that when a team loses its best inside player and one of the best in the conference, that makes a team worse. The coaches disagree. We will find out when the season rolls around.

Jukebox, I looked at it early last week sometime. The school probably updated it for the winter sports late last week. No worries. I sure hope JoshReed returns this year and it wouldn't be bad if another school gets some fans in here; usually, it's just Ithaca/Fish/RIT fans in here.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on November 17, 2005, 11:12:26 AM
Alfred may have to do some catching up in the second half of the season if they want to finish second in the conference. Quintin Bryant isn't going to suit up until January because he only has one semester of eligibility left. And, according to the U of R notes for the Resler Tournament this weekend at the Palestra, Dillion Stein will be out for the first few games as well with an injury.

All those things considered, the Saxons will have to hang tough through the first couple months of the season then really turn it up in January against the conference.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 18, 2005, 04:51:42 PM
John, I was unaware of that about Bryant and Stein. However, that doesn't affect my prognostications too much. Alfred's second semester begins January 15th; only two of Alfred's conference games are played before that date(@Utica, @Hartwick). Stein should be back before those games and I think he, alone, is good enough to get at least a split out of those games. Going 1-1 with a loss at Utica(a game they may lose with all their players) wouldn't be the end of their season. Alfred will be ok.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on November 19, 2005, 05:46:26 PM
Fisher's already 0-1.....so much for another undefeated season and that #7 ranking.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 21, 2005, 12:49:21 AM
GB15, what's with the hateration on Coach Theus? This aggression will not stand, man.

Soooo....Alfred lost by 37 to UR and 20 to Tufts.  After getting rolled by Plattsburgh, Hartwick actually won (!!), beating last year's CUNYAC co-regular season champs Lehman by 2.  Naz beat Pitt-Bradford by 20 and lost to Buff State by 10.

Fisher rebounded from the loss to B-W to whip Del Val by 25 (too bad for the league that DVC is as bad in hoops as they are good in football.)

Utica beat a non-D3 St. Josephs' Vermont by 26, then beat cross-town rival SUNYIT by 13.

Oh, yeah, IC lost by 23 to Hampden-Sydney and by 4 to Roanoke.  At least those aren't regional games.

Games to keep an eye out for this week: Utica at Oneonta tomorrow, Hobart at Fisher on Tuesday.  Naz gets a home game that night against the UR machine, just keep it within 20, fellas.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 22, 2005, 12:37:38 PM
How about the Utica men's basketball team at 3-0 after a win over SUNY Oneonta?

Having a good season this year so far despite the loss of Tim Troy.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on November 22, 2005, 04:18:41 PM
I think Utica will suprise people...Cichon didn't play in the win over Oneonta either!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2005, 08:36:06 PM
I may be wrong about Utica, after all. However, we all know that except for Fisher, every E8 team's season comes down to the E8 tourney. Gotta get there then hope to upset Fisher(which Ithaca almost pulled off last year). It's as simple as that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 23, 2005, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: lileyes on November 22, 2005, 04:18:41 PM
I think Utica will suprise people...Cichon didn't play in the win over Oneonta either!

Why didn't Justin play against Oneonta? Injured? Something worse? :o
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 23, 2005, 02:09:56 PM
Well, Fisher beat Hobart by 25, which to me says  more about the Pumpkinheads (for basketball would that make them Pumpkinshirts?) than it does about the Cards.  Hobart also lost by double-digits to Keuka and needed overtime to subdue mighty Hilbert.

Congrats to Utica's Justin Cichon for being named to the d3hoops.com Team of the Week.  39 points against SUNYIT, maybe building towards a E8 Player of the Year candidacy.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on November 23, 2005, 05:23:15 PM
Justin's not hurt, it should only be a one game thing....I heard he got real sick and couldnt make it because of it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 23, 2005, 10:15:25 PM
Cichon's good but something crazy is going to have to happen for O'Brien or Nick Bennett not to win it. And this is an Ithaca guy saying this.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 23, 2005, 10:16:59 PM
Who is uglier, Adam Morrison of Gonzaga or Josh Boone of UConn?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on November 23, 2005, 10:35:59 PM
Sheldon Williams of Duke!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 24, 2005, 12:11:13 PM
My bad, he would be a finalist as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on November 25, 2005, 02:46:04 PM
As lame as this sounds, I miss Ivan Drago err....Craig Forth from Syracuse already.


To paraphrase......If they lose, they lose.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on November 26, 2005, 01:13:47 PM
Anyone have predictions for the Empire 8 rankings.
Here is mine:

1)Fisher
2)Utica
3)RIT
4)Naz
5)Ithaca
6)Alfred
7)Hartwick
8)Elmira

So far I have only seen Fisher and Elmira play...could be a long season for Elmira.

POY: Sean O'brien
COY: Kornaker because I think he will win the league goin away...

any thoughts
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 26, 2005, 07:23:14 PM
Quote from: the bird man on November 26, 2005, 01:13:47 PM
Anyone have predictions for the Empire 8 rankings.
Here is mine:

1)Fisher
2)Utica
3)RIT
4)Naz
5)Ithaca
6)Alfred
7)Hartwick
8)Elmira

So far I have only seen Fisher and Elmira play...could be a long season for Elmira.

POY: Sean O'brien
COY: Kornaker because I think he will win the league goin away...

any thoughts


Most of that looks pretty correct, though I think you may be underrating Ithaca a little. Don't get me wrong, Ithaca is by no means a "great" team. In fact, I don't think they'll be much more than 8-6 or 9-5 in the league. I think that will be good enough for 3rd or 4th place in the league. I know Ithaca is 0-2 but they always play tough competition early on in order to prepare for the conference season and, more specifically, the conference tourney where they will inevitably have to knock off Fisher if they want to make the tourney. I can deal with losses to H-Syd and Roanoke down in Virginia. In the end, they'll be better for playing those types of teams.

I also think you're overrating RIT a bit. That's a team that lost four starters, including two of the best players in the conference in Goff and Murphy. Add to that the fact Fran Snyder is basically playing on 1/2 of a leg, I think this team could be in for a long year. They won't be as bad as they should be because McVean's coaching is worth one or two wins in games they otherwise should/would lose.

Should be a fun year in the E8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 30, 2005, 11:50:27 AM
Utica plays against Union tonight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 01, 2005, 12:06:54 AM
The LL dominance apparently carries over to basketball as Union knocks off previously undefeated Utica, 82-71. Justin Cichon scores 13 points for the Pioneers. Willie Lucas also played well coming off the bench.

Budcrew, what happened with Lucas last season. In 03-04 he was one of the better players in the conference and get off to a good start last year but then was gone, all of a sudden. If I had known he'd be back this year, I certainly would have ranked the Pioneers higher. I'll say they will come in 4th this year instead of 5th.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: radiomike on December 01, 2005, 10:27:10 AM
There will be a LL-E8 matchups with Hobart and WS vs Ithaca this weekend in Geneva. WEOS will broadcast the Women's Game game beginning at 2PM Saturday December 3, and will have updates and in game PBP of  Hobart-Ithaca during Hobart Hockey beginning at 4PM. www.weos.org on the web or 89.7 FM in the Finger Lakes or 88.1 FM in Ithaca
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 01, 2005, 11:17:54 AM
Not sure how much dominance that really is as RIT beat Hobart 64-44 @ Hobart Tuesday Night.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on December 01, 2005, 02:18:26 PM
Speaking of LL dominance, I could have sworn that Hobart lost to Fisher a week ago by a mere 25 points...hmmm
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 01, 2005, 05:30:48 PM
Fellas, I'm an E8 guy. I mean, look at my name. Come on Bump, you're better than that. But are we counting victories over Hobart(aka pumpkinshirts)? Let's only talk junk about the prominent teams in the LL that we beat. Hobart is very down this year. They got blown out by RIT at home. They lost to Keuka, for god sakes. The best evidence of how bad they suck may have come in their only win when they had to go to OT to beat Hilbert. Does anyone even know what state Hilbert is in?? In their three losses they've lost by 15, 25 and 20. All I'm saying is beating Hobart does not imply E8 dominance. However, when a top LL team beats a top E8 team, as was the case last night when Union beat Utica, that's a little bit more significant('Wick beating Skidmore doesn't mean anything).

More or less, I was referring to what happened at the end of the football season as there are many football posters on this board, as well. Everyone, relax. It's a long season. And can we not get into the SUNYAC vs E8 argument this year. I don't think we have the right to say anything after the E8 champ(who was undefeated) got rolled up on by a SUNYAC team.

I say all this and now Ithaca will probably lose to Hobart this weekend...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 02, 2005, 12:39:24 PM
I really don't know much about the LL, nor do I care. There aren't many games between the two leagues during the regular season, most matchup's come in the ECAC's or NCAA. At this point of the season, who knows who will be good anyway, Utica could go in the tank and end up at the bottom of the E8. I'm not saying that will happen, but if it did, what did the game early in the season prove?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 02, 2005, 12:48:27 PM
Not saying it proved much at all. However, it does prove more than Fisher and RIT whipping up on Hobart--a team that is in a rebuilding year. Union is the consensus 2nd best team in the LL(maybe the best) and Utica seems to be what everyone(besides me, seemingly) predicts to be the 2nd best E8 team. We won't know much about the two leagues until Hamilton and Fisher play in the NCAA's, which is destined to happen.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 02, 2005, 01:15:18 PM
In other news, Ithaca gets ripped by Mansfield(D2) last night, 92-62. Jimmy Bellis scored a career-high 25 points. Sophomore transfer Dominic Scanlon was the only other Bomber in double-figures with 10 points. Mansfield went on a 20-4 run in the first half and took a 13-point lead into the locker room. Ithaca used a 9-0 run in the 2nd half to pull within six but it wasn't close to enough. The Bombers played without starting PG Jon Whetstone which surely contributed to the margin of defeat but likely wasn't the sole cause. With the graduation of Nate Thomas last May, the Bombers need Whetstone in there because they don't have many experienced ball-handlers.

Looking ahead to the weekend:

RIT will play in the Williams tournament. Should be a tough test for the Tigers but we should know more about RIT after this weekend. That isn't saying much because I don't think anyone really knows what to expect from this team.

Ithaca visits Hobart this weekend. Ithaca should win this IF Whetstone plays. If not, all bets are off. I'm not sure if Mullins cares much about this game, knowing his only chances for the NCAA's rest on making and then winning the E8 tournament.

Elmira hosts Clarkson in an E8/LL matchup that surely nobody will care about.

Alfred plays host to Cortland(sucks) on Saturday. This would be a great game if Alfred had Quentin Bryant back, but they don't so it won't. Cortland is 3-1 and is coming off a big win at Brockport, 73-72. Dillon Stein returns to the starting lineup for the Saxons but I think Cortland pulls away in the end and wins by 8-12 points.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 02, 2005, 01:38:55 PM
The Empire 8 community has two choices this season when it comes to Hartwick: 1) Respect Hartwick or 2)Get beat. Getting beat might happen anyway, but time will tell. Hartwick, as promised, will be significantly better than the previous two seasons. Having a 3-1 record is huge boost for a young program. Yes, it is very early in the season. However, the team, coaches, administration, students, and alumni are very hopefull for a breakout season. Winning the Empire 8 is probably an unrealisitc task this season, however post season action is an increasing possibility this season. Although Hartwick will probably drop some games this season, they will win games. There is no reason why Hartwick men's basketball  can't be 500 or better this season.

Other Empire 8 teams will have to quickly get used to playing a more athletic and deep squad. Not to mention enduring the newly revamped and growing student section (Fisher had a taste last year).  Most Empire 8 men's baskeball players haven't ever lost to Hartwick (except for some Ithaca players).

Paul Culpo, maybe soon to be Coach of the Year, has been busy recruiting this past off season. Hartwick has welcomed the following new players to "the NEST":

AJ  BEAULIEU         (6-0; Chicopee,Mass)
Mike Tracy              (5-8; Morris, NY)
Kevin Ryan             (5-11;Scotch Plains, NJ)
Alex Lanfear           (6-3; Lake George,NY)
Jan COCOZZIELLO (6-1; Allendale,NJ)
Jeff Dills                 (6-3; Milwaukee, Wis)
Albe Hulick             (6-4; Greenville, NY)
Pat Dunnigan        (6-4; Sussex, N.J.)
Adam Pelzek         (6-4; East Longmeadow, Mass)
Greg  BANKOWSKI (6-5; Schenectady, N.Y.)
Ramond Doyley     (6-5; Yonkers, NY)
Anthony Brown     (6-6;Milwaukee, Wis)
Jay Hori                 (5-10, Tajimi, Japan)

Hartwick will be returing the following players:

Matt SIMONESCHI   (5-8, Garden City, N.Y.)
John Montana         (6-1, Alfred, N.Y.)
Tim Kindlon             (6-1, Delmar, NY)
Josh MacKenzie      (6-4, Rutland,NY)


Hartwick Baskeball has also brought in a Director of Basketball Operations. This is a rarity in DIII athletics. Hartwick must be on the war path to win.

It is a privelege to play Hartwick!

Ciao for now
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 02, 2005, 05:43:56 PM
Everyone, read that last post from "Respect the Hawks."

Now go back to page 3 on this board and read an apology from "Respect the Hawks" about his overzealous and antagonistic posts last year. RTH, are you schizophrenic?! You all but conceded that Hartwick wasn't going to be any better this year in your post a few weeks ago and, now, you're saying they're not only going to be respectable, but competitive.

Forgive me for being a bit skeptical. I think your school has won, what, one conference game in the last two years? Nowhere in your roster of Hartwick players do I see your one competent player from last year(Bettancourt). Is it possible to have negative numbers in the win column?

As far as the recruits/newcomers you have provided, I'm not sure they'll help much. I have a friend in the capital district(where three of those players are from) and he hadn't heard of a single one of them. How are they going to hang with teams like Fisher who get great recruits from all over the place or even Naz who seem to keep plucking All-Greater Rochester players?

Until Hartwick wins two conference games I think you should relax a little bit with your posts warning of future Hartwick greatness.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on December 03, 2005, 02:06:01 PM
I remember this nutjob from the end of last year......

Quote from: Respect_the_hawks on December 02, 2005, 01:38:55 PM
The Empire 8 community has two choices this season when it comes to Hartwick: 1) Respect Hartwick or 2)Get beat.

Ok, Fisher will be more than happy to respect and not overlook you. Because they'll be bringing their A game, then they'll beat you by 30. (Hell, Alfred and Ithaca might too)


Quote from: Respect_the_hawks on December 02, 2005, 01:38:55 PMWinning the Empire 8 is probably an unrealisitc task this season, however post season action is an increasing possibility this season.

Keyword possibility. I love how you command respect and then say your team probably won't even hit .500 and the team will be a success if it does.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 03, 2005, 05:14:24 PM
RIT splits their games this weekend in the Williams tournament. On Friday night, the Tigers fell to WPI, 61-56. Fran Snyder led RIT with 19 points while Barrett Zeinfeld added 14. Snyder's 3-pointer with :56 seconds left cut the lead to two points but WPI made a hoop and then some foul shots for the victory.

On Saturday, RIT killed Mass. College of Liberal Arts, 81-52. Zeinfeld scored 16 points and Snyder threw in nine.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 03, 2005, 05:58:20 PM
The first game the Tigers lost was to WPI, ranked 10th in the d3 hoops poll currently.  They trailed by 2 with under a minute left but couldn't pull it out.  It's good to see they are playing decent ball far from home. 

I laugh any time I see predictions that the Tigers will finish at the bottom of the conference.  With the problems that teams like Alfred and Utica experience from year to year, I don't think you can count on them both to be playing well all year.  Expect to see the Tigers in the E8 tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 03, 2005, 06:27:48 PM
It's official. The Bombers are awful. Ithaca loses today at Hobart, 73-67. Jimmy Bellis leads the Bombers with 17 points(but 6-19 FG's) while Brian Joe and Sean Stahn both chip in 14 apiece.

Not sure why Ithaca is so awful. I mean, the coach is terrible but we all knew that going into this season. They gotta get things straightend out in a hurry or it's gonna be a real long season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on December 03, 2005, 10:02:43 PM
IC's schedule this week isn't helpful to the cause.

Cortland (6-2) on Tuesday
St. Lawrence (1-4) on Friday (two losses are close to B'port & Roch)
Potsdam (5-0) on Saturday

While all three are in the bulb, Not exactly a diet to improve one's record.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on December 03, 2005, 10:27:43 PM
Think theBear knows Cortland 5-1 (5 straight wins) after 86-76 beating of homestanding Alfred tonight
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on December 03, 2005, 10:41:05 PM
Jdex - you're right, but take a looksee at Cortland State page on DIII Hoops and they are listed as 6-2.

Regardless, IC has a tough week ahead of them.  Slu is not your typical 1-4 team, gave strong competition to both Brockport and Rochester, they have good shooters, and decent size.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 04, 2005, 12:01:41 AM
I picked Cortland to win by 8-12 and they win by 10! I'm gonna bet on every NFL game tomorrow!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 04, 2005, 02:24:43 PM
Gobomber15- how does it feel to be a fan of an Ithaca basketball program that is 0-4 and has a winning percentage of .000? I am sure you are feeling good these days.

On November 1st your scout/prediction of Ithaca Basketball is turning out to be a falsehood so far this season. There is no way Ithaca is going to make it to third place and the E8 tournament without winning

Quote3)Ithaca- A solid core returns for the Bombers. Jimmy Bellis is one of the best and most athletic players in the conference and will be the defensive focus for Ithaca opponents. Brian Andruskiewicz is one of the best low-post players in the league and should be primed for a big season; his numbers have improved in each of his first three seasons. Jon Whetstone has full reins on the point guard duties now that Nate Thomas has graduated. Sean Stahn has showed intriguing glimpses of potential and will step into a starting role at power forward in 2005.  Brad Clemente will have to fill the shoes, defensively, of departed Jesse Roth. Sophomore Brian Joe supplies a reliable long-distance threat off the bench. The Bombers hope one or two of their underclassmen will fill out their rotation and provide the team with adequate depth.

If you remember Ithaca Director of Athletics, Ken Kutler, came from Hartwick. He did some good things at Hartwick and some bad things. He and former President Rick Detweiler let men's basketball and some other programs go by the way side. It is clear that Ithaca basketball is in trouble and we may be starting to see a downfall. Hopefully, Ken is doing something to stop the bleeding. If he is, I commend him, as he didn't do it at Hartwick.

Meanwhile, Hartwick Basketball is 3-1 (.750) heading into big week with all winable games.  As I said in my earlier post, it is still early but Hartwick Basketball is looking impressive compared to the past several years and they are deep. On another subject, Greg Betancourt wasn't apart of the win against Skidmore this past week. Rumor is he is longer playing for the Hartwick Hawks!

Folks, we might have a new team (ie Ithaca) taking the place of Hartwick/Elmira in the basement of the E8 for men's basketball!

Ciao for now
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 04, 2005, 03:28:06 PM
RTH, your ignorance shines through when you compare Hartwick's early season schedule to Ithaca's. Ithaca always starts out horribly(because they play tough teams early on) and then is a touch over .500 in conference and makes the post-season tourney. RTH, remind me again the last time Hartwick made the conference tourney. After you do that, remind me again the last time your team won the conference(Ithaca was the last team not named Fisher to take the E8).

The only decent team Hartwick has played thus far is Plattsburgh St. The result was quite predictable; a 25-point drubbing. Ithaca would also likely be 3-1 if they had Hartwick's schedule. On the same token, Hartwick would DEFINITELY be 0-4 if they had Ithaca's schedule(@Hampden-Sydney, @Roanoke, @Mansfield(D-2), @Hobart). Hartwick's three wins have been against Skidmore(worst team in the LL), Lehman(someone care to tell me where that school is?) and Massachusetts College(ooooohhh, big win). Don't forget Ithaca hasn't played a home game yet, either. They are a much better team in The Bulb.

When you beat somebody besides St.Theresa's School for the Blind, Deaf and Dumb then come talk to me. Also, there's a good chance that IC is 0-7 going into conference play with games against Cortland, Potsdam and St.Lawrence this week. And you know what? I'm fine with that. I've said ALL ALONG that Ithaca's season comes down to the E8 tourney. Sure, they have to make it first but they've had bad starts like this in past years and still made it.

So keep running your mouth, keep starting half your sentences with the word "folks," and keep enjoying your zero or one-win conference season. Chump!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on December 04, 2005, 09:30:27 PM
Lehman is a CUNY School.  I think its located in the Bronx.

Lo & behold, tho the D-III hoops preseason All-American team

has as a 1st team selection

C Sekani Francis Lehman Sr. Bronx, N.Y 6'10.

That being said, they are winless.  Francis averages a double double.
Lehman was 21-7 last year and returns 12 players from that team.
Unfortunately, they still have last years stats posted to their web site.
But Francis had 25 pts 12 rebounds in their last game.

The game was also a consy, in which anything can happen.




Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 04, 2005, 09:56:06 PM
Thanks, Bear.

The fact remains Lehman lost to Hartwick(a team that will finish 7th or 8th in the conference) which means they probably suck.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 05, 2005, 01:28:39 AM
Gobombers15- Consider these facts:

Fact: Hartwick is 3-1 and is currently tied for first place in the overall standings of Empire 8. Ithaca is last with a record of 0-0.

Source: http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Ithaca&team=m&year=2006

Fiction: Skidmore is in last place of the Liberty League.
Truth: Skidmore is .500 and is in 4 place out of 8 teams

Source: http://www.d3hoops.com/conference_info.php?conf=LL&team=m

Fact: Through the 2005 season Hartwick has played a combined total of 1619 games in the history of the program. Hartwick has won 944 of then or .583.

Through the 2005 season Ithaca has played a combined total of 1582 games in the history of the program. Ithaca has won 909 of then or .575

Source: http://bombers.ithaca.edu/Sports/mbasket/2005/mbballhistory.asp?path=mbasket     
http://www.hartwick.edu/x2742.xml

Fiction: I am a coward and can't take the heat that this board dishes out
Fact: I am a persistant, thick-skined, and dedicated Hartwick Basketball fan that won't leave this message board. You have me for the season and post season. Deal with it!

Fact: I am NOT in the position and Won't cowtail to Gobombers15 and other posters that might dis-respect the Hartwick Hawks.

Source: Yours truly, Respect_the_hawks

Learn to Respect  Hartwick Men'
s basketball team! It is a privelege to play aganst them!

Folks, have a good Monday and week!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 05, 2005, 10:43:29 AM
RTH, the only history I care about is recent history. I don't care how good 'Wick was 20 or 30 years ago. How good have the been in the last five years? Skidmore WILL be one of the bottom two teams in the LL just like Hartwick will be one of the worst teams in the E8. If you want to measure the success of a season after four games, then go for it. I still guarantee you Ithaca finishes higher in the E8 standings than Hartwick.

And just because absolutely nobody in here respects the Hawks doesn't mean the teams are going to take Hartwick lightly. The coaches will make sure of that, so get off your soapbox, Rodney Dangerfield. Your team is still garbage.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 05, 2005, 11:55:08 AM
Gobombers15 -

Recent History (5 Years)
Hartwick has won 29 out of 123 games (.236)

Remaining History (69 Years)
Hartwick has won 915 out of 1496 games (.612)

With the exception of the past five years, Hartwick has been a HIGHLY successful DII & DIII basketball team.

This is history, it can't be changed. Hartwick has won their fair share of playoff appearences.

What matters is Hartwick has had (with the exception of the past 5 years) a strong tradition of strong Basketball programs.

Enough with History talk!

What matters now is the 2005-2006 Basketball season:

Right now. Hartwick is 3-1 (.750) and Ithaca is 0-4 (.000)

It is early, but things are not looking good for bomber b-ball.

Speculation Mania

QuoteSkidmore WILL be one of the bottom two teams in the LL just like Hartwick will be one of the worst teams in the E8. If you want to measure the success of a season after four games, then go for it. I still guarantee you Ithaca finishes higher in the E8 standings than Hartwick.
These are some bold speculative statements

Your speculation is no better then my speculation!

Lastly

QuoteYour team is still garbage.

Okay then! Your team (Ithaca) is currently horse #!^ *

Folks, Ciao for now
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 05, 2005, 01:28:55 PM
Quote from: Respect_the_hawks on December 05, 2005, 11:55:08 AM
Gobombers15 -

Recent History (5 Years)
Hartwick has won 29 out of 123 games (.236)

Remaining History (69 Years)
Hartwick has won 915 out of 1496 games (.612)

With the exception of the past five years, Hartwick has been a HIGHLY successful DII & DIII basketball team.

This is history, it can't be changed. Hartwick has won their fair share of playoff appearences.

What matters is Hartwick has had (with the exception of the past 5 years) a strong tradition of strong Basketball programs.

Enough with History talk!

What matters now is the 2005-2006 Basketball season:

Right now. Hartwick is 3-1 (.750) and Ithaca is 0-4 (.000)

It is early, but things are not looking good for bomber b-ball.

Speculation Mania

QuoteSkidmore WILL be one of the bottom two teams in the LL just like Hartwick will be one of the worst teams in the E8. If you want to measure the success of a season after four games, then go for it. I still guarantee you Ithaca finishes higher in the E8 standings than Hartwick.
These are some bold speculative statements

Your speculation is no better then my speculation!

Lastly

QuoteYour team is still garbage.

Okay then! Your team (Ithaca) is currently horse #!^ *

Folks, Ciao for now


WAH!! holy crap, this guy's whining is driving me up a freakin' wall!
Shut the hell up about what Hartwick did 20 years ago. Big f-in deal!
RTH, it's all about the present. The here-and-now. Believe me, supporting a program that's only 5 years old (Utica football), you have to think in the now.

BTW, Utica basketball USED to be Division I, and actually played Syracuse a couple of times. Taste THAT, RTH!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 05, 2005, 01:50:27 PM

QuoteRTH, it's all about the present. The here-and-now.
-budcrew08

Thanks budcrew08, thanks you for agreeing with me that we need to focus on the present. 

The present is:

Empire 8 Standings (Overall)

1. Hartwick and Utica (.750)
2. St John Fisher (.667)
3. Nazerath and RIT (.500)
4. Alfred and Elmira  (.400)
5. Ithaca                  (.000)

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 05, 2005, 02:23:29 PM
Actually RIT is 2-1.

My math may be a little rusty, but I think that's better than .500
The one loss is to #10 WPI.
RIT hosts it's home tourney this weekend starting with York on 12/9.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 05, 2005, 02:42:22 PM
And the Tigers home tourney should be interesting, with Oswego being invited.  They play Wilkes first, who lost their opener to Potsdam but has won four straight since.  Taking their loss to the Bears into consideration, it looks like a Lakers/Tigers final is the most likely scenario. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 05, 2005, 03:43:17 PM
Tigerfan2, you are absolutely correct. RIT is 2-1. I based my information off of d3hoops.com. which is obviously not up to date.

The UPDATED Empire 8 Standings (Overall)

1. Hartwick and Utica       (.750) 3-1
2. St John Fisher and RIT (.667) 2-1
3. Nazerath                      (.500) 2-2
4. Alfred and Elmira          (.400) 2-3
5. Ithaca                           (.000) 0-4

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 05, 2005, 05:44:14 PM
Actually, let me all give you the conference standings since those are the only ones that matter for every team not named St.John Fisher:

Fisher  0-0
RIT      0-0
Utica   0-0
Ithaca 0-0
Alfred  0-0
Naz     0-0
'Wick   0-0
Elmira  0-0

RTH, this is the only time your team will not have more losses than wins in the conference, so enjoy it. Since you enjoy facts so much, I'll give you a few.

Fact: Combined record of teams Hartwick has defeated: 3-9

Fact: Technically, it's 2-9 because Skidmore beat Paul Smith's College and I don't even think that's a D3 school. Who's their best player, Pocahontas?

Fact: Combined record of Ithaca's opponents: 13-5(didn't include Mansfield because they are D2)...and that's even including 2-3 Hobart.

Fact: Hartwick's road winning pct: .000...same as Ithaca's

Fact: Ithaca hasn't played a home game yet.

Fact: Ithaca doesn't schedule cupcakes like Lehman, Skidmore and Bard.

Fact: Ithaca will beat Hartwick twice this year and finish ahead of them in the conference standings.

Fact: RTH is a chump and is doing nothing but causing more people to hate Hartwick because they are a garbage team and have done nothing to warrant mentioning while any of us were in college.

TASTE IT
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 05, 2005, 06:33:49 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on December 05, 2005, 05:44:14 PM
Actually, let me all give you the conference standings since those are the only ones that matter for every team not named St.John Fisher:

Fisher 0-0
RIT 0-0
Utica 0-0
Ithaca 0-0
Alfred 0-0
Naz 0-0
'Wick 0-0
Elmira 0-0

RTH, this is the only time your team will not have more losses than wins in the conference, so enjoy it. Since you enjoy facts so much, I'll give you a few.  Speculation

Fact: Combined record of teams Hartwick has defeated: 3-9  Atleast Hartwick is in the win column

Fact: Technically, it's 2-9 because Skidmore beat Paul Smith's College and I don't even think that's a D3 school. Who's their best player, Pocahontas?  I like the humor

Fact: Combined record of Ithaca's opponents: 13-5(didn't include Mansfield because they are D2)...and that's even including 2-3 Hobart.  And who agreed to play teams like this?

Fact: Hartwick's road winning pct: .000...same as Ithaca's  Well, that is about to change

Fact: Ithaca hasn't played a home game yet.  I hope for your sake they win soon

Fact: Ithaca doesn't schedule cupcakes like Lehman, Skidmore and Bard.  At least Paul Culpo scheduled managable games to start

Fact: Ithaca will beat Hartwick twice this year and finish ahead of them in the conference standings.  Major Speculation Alert

Fact: RTH is a chump and is doing nothing but causing more people to hate Hartwick because they are a garbage team and have done nothing to warrant mentioning while any of us were in college.  At least my team has won a game!

TASTE IT  The only thing I taste is victory over Vassar, Bard, Oneonta State, and TBA this week

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 05, 2005, 07:02:57 PM
You won't beat O-State, first of all.

Secondly, isn't everything pretty much speculation at this point. I mean, the conference season hasn't even started. However, I'm using educated guesses about what will happen whereas you just come out and say "respect Hartwick or you're going to get beat." I'm pretty sure nobody really feared 'Wick last year and everyone did pretty well against them. And if I have to hear one more time about how you guys were within 10 or whatever against Fisher at home last year, I may throw-up in my mouth.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 05, 2005, 07:48:31 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on December 05, 2005, 07:02:57 PM
You won't beat O-State, first of all.

Secondly, isn't everything pretty much speculation at this point. I mean, the conference season hasn't even started. However, I'm using educated guesses about what will happen whereas you just come out and say "respect Hartwick or you're going to get beat." I'm pretty sure nobody really feared 'Wick last year and everyone did pretty well against them. And if I have to hear one more time about how you guys were within 10 or whatever against Fisher at home last year, I may throw-up in my mouth.

Personally, I cant wait until IC/HC and IC/UC face off, then this guy might just keep his mouth shut.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 05, 2005, 07:56:22 PM
Quote from: budcrew08 on December 05, 2005, 07:48:31 PM


Personally, I cant wait until IC/HC and IC/UC face off, then this guy might just keep his mouth shut.
Quote

Amen, budcrew. Unfortunately, then the excuses will come fast and furious. For instance, "Hartwick is much improved, folks! Folks, we were within 18 points of Utica with 5 minutes left. The lesson is obvious: Respect the Hawks or you will be sorry!!"

And, RTH, in regard to your comment about scheduling "manageable" games: Ithaca tries to get BETTER by playing BETTER teams. Last year they played several quality opponents early on and improved throughout the season, culminating in taking Fisher to the last minute on Fisher's home floor. And, please, don't tell me all those games were unwinnable. We lost to Roanoke(6-2) on their home floor and played neck-and-neck with them the whole way. Also, IC  lost to Hobart after the Bombers played an awful first half and just did not have enough to come back all the way in the 2nd. They lost those two games by four and six points, respectively. Those are the games they'd win at home. So don't tell me they're not "manageable." Bottom line, Ithaca lost both of those, not making any excuses. Did they have a shot against HS-C or Mansfield? Probably not. But IC will be more prepared for the Fisher/RIT/Utica's of the world than Hartwick will after beating up on schools like Massachusetts College of Future Dunkin Donuts Drive-Thru Managers.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 05, 2005, 08:01:40 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on December 05, 2005, 07:56:22 PM
Quote from: budcrew08 on December 05, 2005, 07:48:31 PM


Personally, I cant wait until IC/HC and IC/UC face off, then this guy might just keep his mouth shut.
Quote

Amen, budcrew. Unfortunately, then the excuses will come fast and furious. For instance, "Hartwick is much improved, folks! Folks, we were within 18 points of Utica with 5 minutes left. The lesson is obvious: Respect the Hawks or you will be sorry!!"

And, RTH, in regard to your comment about scheduling "manageable" games: Ithaca tries to get BETTER by playing BETTER teams. Last year they played several quality opponents early on and improved throughout the season, culminating in taking Fisher to the last minute on Fisher's home floor. And, please, don't tell me all those games were unwinnable. We lost to Roanoke(6-2) on their home floor and played neck-and-neck with them the whole way. Also, IC  lost to Hobart after the Bombers played an awful first half and just did not have enough to come back all the way in the 2nd. They lost those two games by four and six points, respectively. Those are the games they'd win at home. So don't tell me they're not "manageable." Bottom line, Ithaca lost both of those, not making any excuses. Did they have a shot against HS-C or Mansfield? Probably not. But IC will be more prepared for the Fisher/RIT/Utica's of the world than Hartwick will after beating up on schools like Massachusetts College of Future Dunkin Donuts Drive-Thru Managers.

Here's the thing about IC's schedule, especially in the early season. IC probably plays Mansfield U because it's a fairly short trip. I don't know, gb15, can you back me up on this?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on December 05, 2005, 08:14:35 PM
What does everboby think about Fishers next two games and will they stand a chance against any team in the Randolph-Macon Tourament?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 05, 2005, 10:51:52 PM
Quote from: ricco1 on December 05, 2005, 08:14:35 PM
What does everboby think about Fishers next two games and will they stand a chance against any team in the Randolph-Macon Tourament?

First off, do they "stand a chance" against "any team" in the Randolph Macon tournament? Well, seeing as how they were ranked #7 in the pre-season poll, I think they "stand a chance" against pretty much every team they play. That said, I'm not sure if they win this tournament.

Nick Bennett does not become eligible until the 2nd semester begins as he is taking some grad courses in the Spring, but not in the Fall(has used only three years of eligibility because he was injured his freshman year). Bennett is by far Fisher's most valuable player(O'Brien is the best). He essentially shuts down the other team's top option, he rebounds very well and always seems to hit timely 3-pointers that stop another team's momentum or puts the nail in the proverbial coffin.

If Bennett were eligible, I'd venture to say the Cards would likely be the favorite in the tournament. Since he isn't, I say Fisher rolls Lake Erie College by about 20 points then gets nipped by Randolph Macon or Lincoln by less than 5 points.

Just one person's opinion.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 05, 2005, 11:58:25 PM
Yeah, Ricco, I'll second GB15's take.  Lake Erie has looked decent early but history suggests their league isn't good and they're probably not either.  Not much to go on, I know, but I'd take SJF by 15-20.

Either Lincoln or RMC would be a great test for Fisher, both probably far better than anyone else in NY w/ the possible exception of UR.  My guess is RMC will beat Lincoln narrowly on their home floor, then beat Fisher by about 3 points.  I'd like to see SJF come away with a couple statement wins though for the E8's sake.

RespectTheHawks....congratulations on salting away the 2005-06 Empire 8 Unintentional Comedy Championship this early in the year.  You came out focused and ready to go with some truly ludicrous statements and you show no signs of slowing down.  RespectRespectTheHawks.  Too bad your season has 2 more wins in it, tops.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on December 06, 2005, 09:20:35 AM
Random thought:

GB15 is right...Prince WOULD be the best player on 'Wick.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on December 06, 2005, 12:33:49 PM
looking over fisher's schedule the next 4 games I believe are crucial to the team, as far as the national rankings and a possible at large bid to NCAA's, givin an upset in the empire 8 tourny.

Having said that I agree with gobombers15, that the only games that matter are the empire8 league games and the conference tournament. My opinion is obviously biased but I think on talent alone fisher should be able to win the league and the conference tourny if it is on fisher's home floor (one loss at home in the last 4 years to Hamilton in the NCAA tourny).

I was wondering how everyone except respect the hawks feels about fisher's chances to win the league, and how deep they think Fisher can go in the tourny?
Basically, how good do they think the team really is?


GO Cards...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 06, 2005, 02:31:26 PM
Tuesday, December 6th

Vassar @ Hartwick*, 7pm
Skidmore @ Utica, 7pm
St. John Fisher @ Fredonia, 7:30pm
Pitt Bradford @ Elmira, 7:30pm
Cortland @ Ithaca, 8pm
Geneseo @ Alfred, 8pm
Nazareth @ Oswego, 8pm

*Game of the night


Thoughts:

Vassar @ Hartwick, 7pm

Vassar (5-1) is coming off a victory against SUNY-Purchase. Hartwick (3-1) is having a great start to their season. This will be the Hawks toughest match up so far this season. They are coming of a convincing win against Skidmore last week. . Hartwick will try to go 4-1, thus doubling there past win percentage.

Skidmore @ Utica, 7pm

Skidmore (2-3) is coming off a loss to Connecticut College. Utica (3-1) is also coming off a loss against Union. Utica will try to get back in the win column. This will be an interesting non conference contest.

St. John Fisher @ Fredonia, 7:30pm

St John Fisher (2-1) is coming off a win against. Fredonia (2-4) is coming off an overtime loss to Oneonta State. Fredonia will go for the upset, while Fisher will try to go 3-1.

Pitt Bradford @ Elmira, 7:30pm

Pitt Bradford (3-3) is coming off an overtime loss against Pitt-Greensburg. Elmira (2-3) is coming off a victory against Clarkson. This game could go either way, should be an interesting one.

Cortland @ Ithaca, 8pm

Cortland (5-1) is coming off a victory against Alfred. Ithaca (0-4) on the other hand is struggling so far this season. Tonight's game is the home opener for the Bombers. The Bombers will try not to go (0-5) on the season. A loss could be devastating to the program, as it will no doubt create some fan dissension.


Geneseo @ Alfred, 8pm

Geneseo (2-3) is coming off a win against Plattsburg. Alfred (2-3) is coming off a loss to Cortland. Alfred will try to get back in the win column tonight. This will be an interesting non conference contest

Nazareth @ Oswego, 8pm

Oswego (5-0) is coming off a victory against Brockport. Nazareth (2-2) is coming off a win against Pitt-Bradford. This could be a tough game for the Golden Flyers. Oswego will look to continue their undefeated streak.

RIT, is off tonight.

That is all folks. After all this is a free message board and I can only do son much pro-bono work.

How is the Holiday shopping going? Christmas is only 19 days away!

For those students out there, good luck on finals!

Ciao for now!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 06, 2005, 04:42:11 PM
Well, we know another thing about RTH, he definitely is not a writer or journalism major. Hey RTH, could you say "coming off" or "folks" anymore? You call that "analysis?" You  said what each team did in their last game, what their record is and included a few moronic/ignorant comments. Let the fun begin.

Quote from: Respect_the_hawks on December 06, 2005, 02:31:26 PM
Tuesday, December 6th

Vassar @ Hartwick*, 7pm
Skidmore @ Utica, 7pm
St. John Fisher @ Fredonia, 7:30pm
Pitt Bradford @ Elmira, 7:30pm
Cortland @ Ithaca, 8pm
Geneseo @ Alfred, 8pm
Nazareth @ Oswego, 8pm

*Game of the night


Hartwick and Vassar is not the game of the night, bud. Just because two teams have good records(temporarily) doesn't mean anything. The quality of the basketball will be low. Sure, it'll be a close game but if the basketball isn't good, why watch? If the Texans played the Jets right now, it'd be a close game but would anyone dub that game the "game of the week." That it may be close, however, doesn't change the fact that nobody would give a rat's ass about the game. The only game less prominent than Hartwick/Vassar tonight is Pitt/Bradford.

Real Game of the Night: Nazareth at Oswego, followed by Cortland at Ithaca.

Quote from: Respect_the_hawks on December 06, 2005, 02:31:26 PM
Tuesday, December 6th

Cortland @ Ithaca, 8pm

Cortland (5-1) is coming off a victory against Alfred. Ithaca (0-4) on the other hand is struggling so far this season. Tonight's game is the home opener for the Bombers. The Bombers will try not to go (0-5) on the season. A loss could be devastating to the program, as it will no doubt create some fan dissension.


That assumes people on the Ithaca campus actually care about the basketball team. Other than about 100 core fans, most on Ithaca's campus only think one athletic event takes place each year: The Cortaca Jug. There will be no dissension because that implies people care enough. This isn't D1, RTH, nobody is gonna start a firejimmullins.com(though I have thought about trying it). Ithacans are too worried about recycling to notice the team is doing poorly.

Quote from: Respect_the_hawks on December 06, 2005, 02:31:26 PM
Tuesday, December 6th

St. John Fisher @ Fredonia, 7:30pm

St John Fisher (2-1) is coming off a win against. Fredonia (2-4) is coming off an overtime loss to Oneonta State. Fredonia will go for the upset, while Fisher will try to go 3-1. 


Fisher is coming off a win against...really? Fredonia is going for the upset? Fisher is trying to go to 3-1? You mean, both teams are trying to win that game? What insight! Tell me more! Like why do white people like Wayne Brady so much?

Quote from: Respect_the_hawks on December 06, 2005, 02:31:26 PM
Tuesday, December 6th

Nazareth @ Oswego, 8pm

Oswego (5-0) is coming off a victory against Brockport. Nazareth (2-2) is coming off a win against Pitt-Bradford. This could be a tough game for the Golden Flyers. Oswego will look to continue their undefeated streak.


Hold up. You're telling me that playing on the road against a very good, senior-laden, undefeated team could be a tough game for a young, .500 team? Wow, you're relentless at getting to the bottom of things.

But thanks for the pro-bono work. However, I think most of the posters are going to start a fund soon to pay you to stop posting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 06, 2005, 08:56:21 PM
Cortland closes the first half with a quick 7-1 spurt and takes the lead going into halftime, 28-23.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 06, 2005, 10:52:58 PM
Folks, Hartwick dropped a tough game tonight against an impressive Vassar squad. The final was 65-55. It by far a butt kicking, but just enough to send a message to the young Hartwick squad that prosperity comes easy in DIII hoops. We will see how the Hawks will react Thursday night against Bard and this weekend in the Holiday Inn Tip Off.

Before, everyone get all over me. Please understand that I never guarenteed a win tonight or even this week (not to mention the entire season). What I have been saying is the Hartwick Hawks are in a much better position to win games against more talented team.

Well it looks like Ithaca has fallen to (0-5) on the season after a heartbreaking loss to Cortland. Yes, you are not drunk Folks. That is right, there are no wins in the win column. I haven't made a typo or am trying to pull a prank. It is freakin reality.

I heard that Friday night will be Pocahontas Babble Head Night at Ithaca. The first 100 people who enter Ben Light Gymnasium will receive this door prize. Rumor is GoBombers15 will be camping outside the night before to be the first person in line. 

More later.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 06, 2005, 11:06:45 PM
Yes, Cortland defeated Ithaca, 57-55. It was a hard-fought game throughout. Cortland maintained the lead for the entire game as its advantage fluctuated between two and seven points in the 2nd half. Seemingly every instance in which Ithaca brought it to within a bucket, Cortland responded with a 3-pointer or big shot to quiet the crowd. RTH can run his mouth as much as he wants, but Ithaca has lost three tough games(2,4,6) against teams much better than Vassar. Enjoy your last win of the season against Bard, RTH. It's all downhill from there, buddy.

By the way, I think my estimation of the Games of the Night were a bit closer than yours(Cortland nips Ithaca, 57-55...and Oswego hangs on against Naz, 68-66).

In other E8 news...

Fisher        76
Fredonia    67

Closer than I thought it would/should be.

Utica            83
Skidmarks    49

Still think Skidmore is good, RTH?

Pitt-Bradford  75
Elmira            65

Yaaawwwwn. Though it looks like Elmira will be better than Hartwick, after all.

I can't wait for Ithaca to put it on Hartwick twice this year. It's going to be fannnnntastic.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on December 06, 2005, 11:38:02 PM
Impressive losses for Naz and Ithaca. I saw Cortland play against Elmira earlier this year and they look to be a solid team. Naz hangs in with a tough Oswego team.

What can ya say about the Utica score...wow.

The Fisher score may be a little bit deciving. Fredonia did not get within 10 in the 2nd half. Also Fisher was ahead by about 15 at the half. I did not see the game but I checked out the play by play on the fredonia site. Still think that Fisher should have been able to extend the lead in the 2nd half, but still not all bad.

Hartwick, well they suck...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 06, 2005, 11:40:27 PM
Vassar is not impressive, RTH.  Vassar is just as bad as they always are, last or next to last in the LL.

Yeah, Ithaca's 0-5.  We're not very good.  In fact, we may be downright lousy.  However, RtheH,  there is no way, no chance, nada, zero, that Hartwick would have won a game playing IC's schedule either.  Your proof will come next month when Cortland beats you by 25-30.

I have no interest in pumping up Ithaca's 0-5 to be anything other than it is.  Which is probably why I find your shilling for Hartwick, with its 3-2 record against absolutely nobody approaching even mediocre, to be so distasteful. 

Silly me for thinking that a home loss to somebody as god-awful as Vassar would shut you up. Instead we get the "wow guys (oops, i mean 'folks'), (insert lightly-regarded team that just beat the snot out of us here) is pretty good, watch out for them" defense. Classic.  When can we expect the campaign for Top 25 votes, RtheH?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 07, 2005, 09:03:05 AM
Wow spend a little time away from the boards and look what I have been missing.
GB15 keep up the work against the Hartwick kid.
He is driving me nuts!
Fisher will win the leage this year- they will go deeper in the NCAA's and will have a few key losses that will put them in the bottom of the top 25.

Good enough speculation?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 07, 2005, 11:28:24 AM
Quote from: the bird man on December 06, 2005, 11:38:02 PM
Impressive losses for Naz and Ithaca. I saw Cortland play against Elmira earlier this year and they look to be a solid team. Naz hangs in with a tough Oswego team.


I was very surprised how Naz played against Oswego at their place. It sounded as if Naz was in control most of the way but a late rally by the Lakers did them in. Oswego didn't lead in the game until there was 4 minutes remaining. Joe Canori(Webster grad!) poured in 25. Naz is going to be a tough out this year.

Since I like to think of myself as a revisionist, here are GB15's new conference predictions:

1)Fisher(13-1)
2)Utica(10-4)
3)RIT(9-5)
4)Ithaca(8-6)
5a)Naz(7-7)
5b)Alfred(7-7)
7)Elmira (2-12)
8)Hartwick(0-14)*

*It's possible hartwick goes 1-13 if they can beat Elmira at home.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 07, 2005, 11:35:13 AM
The reality is your league stinks.  I have seen Utica play and they are good, probably better than Fisher this season.  Their only loss is to Union who may very well have the best team in the region.  Plus their Montana is the best coach in the region.

I saw Hartwick scrimmage SUNY IT and as a local Utica guy who has seen alot of games over the past 20 years they really aren't too bad.  I would be surprised if they didn't win atleast 5 or 6 league games this year. 
Now I don't think they are going to be like that maniac RTH but I do think they will win some games.  They essentially played SUNYIT to a standoff.

As for your league I saw Ithaca once an they stink.  Elmira I have not seen yet but can't imagine they are any good.

i would say your league is the weakest of the big 3 (LL, E8, SUNY).

So stop arguing about how good or bad Hartwick is and worry about our league!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 07, 2005, 01:07:28 PM
clearconceipt,

Fantastic name.  That's all I'm going to say to you.

As for the Fisher fan's post, they obviously are favored to win the league this year, but I don't see them going any further in the NCAA's (if they make it).  Potsdam exposed them last year as a weak interior team, which they obviously are.  The loss of Sidney only makes it worse.  They were able to get through the season last year undefeated because no one in the E8 had that kind of personnel. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 07, 2005, 01:47:56 PM
Hey clear C,
I am a Utica native and UC is ok.
From all I am hearing about Fisher, this is a runaway league championship.
If you are so worried about Utica- what league do you root for?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 07, 2005, 01:50:18 PM
Good luck trying to make an argument for either league in the eternal battle for "Who's better, the E8 or SUNYAC?"

At this point this is what I gather:

SOLID
Potsdam
Fisher
Oswego

LOOKING GOOD
Utica
RIT
Cortland

MAYBE
Alfred
Naz
Buff State

And this early in the season this is subject to change rapidly.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on December 07, 2005, 04:25:13 PM
Bamm, I think you did a good job picking the better teams. I think Fisher may have the edge because of the return of Bennett and Auman. Two really good players.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on December 07, 2005, 06:24:18 PM
This is a strange year because of real or imagined second half additions that will significantly change teams for the better:

Brockport
Rother
Harris?
WIlliams?

Alfred
Bryant

New Paltz
Foluke-Henderson?

Plattsburgh
Simmons?

Fisher
Bennett

This list of additions is significant as it stands, any other second half additions anyone knows about?

Some of these teams will experience enough 1st half L's that the conference tournament will be the only way they make the dance, but they also have to potential to spoil at large bids for good teams with gaudy records that didn't win the conference (e.g. Oswego last year, which was clearly a bubble team, and undoubtedly would have made a 59 team field)

All of the solid teams you mentioned have some first rate players:

Oswego:

Perioli, Mims, Burridge

Potsdam:

Barton, Ducena, Bisesi

Fisher

O'Brien, Bennett, Auman


I haven't seen anything yet that wouldn't put Cortland in that top group, and everyone seems to be forgetting Liberty League squads Union, which has a solid club with a solid coach, and Hamilton, which is arguably loaded with talent.

We'll see how it plays out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 07, 2005, 06:50:11 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on December 07, 2005, 11:35:13 AM

I saw Hartwick scrimmage SUNY IT and as a local Utica guy who has seen alot of games over the past 20 years they really aren't too bad. I would be surprised if they didn't win atleast 5 or 6 league games this year.
Now I don't think they are going to be like that maniac RTH but I do think they will win some games. They essentially played SUNYIT to a standoff.

i would say your league is the weakest of the big 3 (LL, E8, SUNY).


First of all, calling the LL/E8/SUNYAC the "big 3" would be like a D1 fan calling the WAC, Mountain West and the West Coast Conference the "big 3." Sure, there may be a stud team or two in those conferences but come tourney time they'll get stepped on. Let's just get that settled up front.

Secondly, if Hartwick wins 6 conference games I'll never post again on Post Patterns. Book it. If they get that sixth conference win, I'll sign off forever. Pat Coleman can block me from the site. I don't care what it takes, I would never post again.

Fortunately, there's a better chance of Oneonta making the "50 best cities to live" than Hartwick taking six conference games, so there won't be too much sleep lost on that one.

Clearconceit, correct me if I'm wrong but you saw Ithaca on the road this year. Ithaca turns in stinkers about 75% of the time when they play away from South Hill. They're the prototypical average team...tough at home, lousy on the road.

In other news, Hartwick's first 9 conference games:

vs Alfred(return of Quentin Bryant)
vs Fisher (return of Nick Bennett...well, his 2nd game back)
vs Utica  (no chance, Hawks)
vs Ithaca (10 point win for the Bombers)
vs Elmira (Wick's first/last/only chance at a conference win)
at RIT    (GB15 has a better shot at bedding Hedi Klum than Hartwick does to win this game)
at Naz  (seeing as how they took Oswego to the brink...I say Naz by about 50)
at Fisher (bring out the bodybags)
at Alfred (Saxons too good at home...rout!)

At best, Hartwick goes 1-8 in that span. No way they win 6 conference games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on December 07, 2005, 07:51:14 PM
I think thebear is right.The cortland team seems to be really  good.They beat some good teams. I would love to see another matchup between a suny school and E8 in the ncaa's.Think Fisher might take this one especially with their additions this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 07, 2005, 08:23:24 PM
Quote from: ricco1 on December 07, 2005, 07:51:14 PM
I think thebear is right.The cortland team seems to be really good.They beat some good teams. I would love to see another matchup between a suny school and E8 in the ncaa's.Think Fisher might take this one especially with their additions this year.

Yes, Fisher added Auman but lost Sidney. Sidney scored so many points going to the hoop or getting to the line by screaming real loud and embellishing fouls so well. He's a great player but he was the Manu Ginobili of this league. Auman seems to have more of a perimeter game and relies more on his shooting abilities than driving or getting to the line. However, we shouldn't forget that Auman took Sidney's starting spot during Sidney's junior year and was starting over Sidney last year until he got hurt.

I'm interested to see if Sidney's departure can be offset by the return of Auman.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ballAU on December 07, 2005, 09:12:28 PM
coming as an insider in the empire 8 league i can't believe somone would be bringing up hartwick as a tourney contender. Even with a good incoming class experience means alot and coming from 5 losing seasons your in the wrong seat to praise an unproven team, I think that Alfred will be a big contender in the empire 8 and will make the tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 07, 2005, 09:33:41 PM
Fisher fans -- this is the thing about your team:  Last year, every doubter said they didn't get tough competition in the E8, that they were a finesse team, and that when faced with a big, strong squad they would fall.  When the Cards came out and laid an egg against Potsdam the doubters all got to say "I told you so." 

They have done nothing yet to change anyone's opinion.  They missed a chance to do so against Baldwin-Wallace.  They have another chance next weekend at the Randolph-Macon tourney (if they beat Lake Erie, they'll play either RM or Lincoln). 

I suspect if they lose in the RM tourney you'll see them drop out of the D3hoops Top 25, and they probably will have to put up a lot of wins before they return. 

One more thing -- RIT has big games coming up against SUNY schools.  If they win on Friday they'll probably see Oswego on Saturday night, followed by Cortland on Tuesday.  Both at home.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on December 07, 2005, 11:05:14 PM
You know what I just noticed? Someone bring Not In The Bulb back......I miss him. Unless he's the same guy as GB15? Then I apologize.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 07, 2005, 11:11:45 PM
Jukebox Hero--He is I and I am Him.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 08, 2005, 10:00:51 AM
You have way too much hostility pal.  I refer to these 3 leagues as the big 3 in NY State not the USA.  In the grand scheme all of our teams are feeble, none can compare to the Midwest boys.
Now I never said anything about Hartwick being great I am jsut saying having watched their scrimmage versus SUNYIT they are significantly improved from the team I saw Utica kill last season.  They have a couple of big boys.  Can they win 6 league games?  i don't know, but if IT was in the league I think they would win 6 games.  That's all I meant. 

Look don't attack everybody just becasue RTH gets under your skin.  Everyone have opinions.  I think Utica is going to win the league.  That is my opinion.  You have yours etc.  As for Hartwick, who cares.  As long as my boys win that is all  I care about.  But as a fanatical poster you may want to be careful about vowing to never post again.

My league predictions

UTICA
SJF
NAZ
HARTWICK
ALFRED
RIT
ITHACA
ELMIRA


GO U T I C A!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 08, 2005, 10:26:04 AM
Clear C,
It's no problem to  root for UC!
I read about them daily in the OD!
Really though-win the e8 outright.
That is a little stretch dontcha think?
Maybe my rose colored glasses make me feel that Fisher will dominate,
but what is this years difference in UC?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on December 08, 2005, 11:27:22 AM
clearconciet,

I am a UC fan too.  I think it should be interesting to see UC and Fisher battle for the E8 title. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 08, 2005, 12:58:39 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on December 08, 2005, 10:00:51 AM
You have way too much hostility pal. I refer to these 3 leagues as the big 3 in NY State not the USA. In the grand scheme all of our teams are feeble, none can compare to the Midwest boys.
Now I never said anything about Hartwick being great I am jsut saying having watched their scrimmage versus SUNYIT they are significantly improved from the team I saw Utica kill last season. They have a couple of big boys. Can they win 6 league games? i don't know, but if IT was in the league I think they would win 6 games. That's all I meant.

Look don't attack everybody just becasue RTH gets under your skin. Everyone have opinions. I think Utica is going to win the league. That is my opinion. You have yours etc. As for Hartwick, who cares. As long as my boys win that is all I care about. But as a fanatical poster you may want to be careful about vowing to never post again.

My league predictions

UTICA
SJF
NAZ
HARTWICK
ALFRED
RIT
ITHACA
ELMIRA


GO U T I C A!!!!!!!!

I'm not attacking you at all, "pal." Hostility? I harbor none except for the occasional ignorant poster or two, of which you are not one.  Like you said, everyone has their opinions so if mine differ from yours, don't take it as a personal attack. I take nothing personal that goes on in these post rooms. It's a shame that some do.

If you want to base your opinion on a scrimmage between two teams that were a combined 3-27 in their respective conferences last year, then that's ok, too. Just don't be too surprised if people disagree with you. Scrimmages are a time to work out some kinks, play different rotations to see what works, etc. I trust your opinion that Hartwick may be better this season. If people go back to my pre-season predictions on page 2 or 3, I even said "Hartwick should have improved enough to finally get out of the division cellar." That said, I still don't think they have the experience or talent to deal with the better(Utica, Fisher, RIT, Naz) or more experienced(Ithaca, Alfred) teams.

I agree with you that our league is quite inferior to the midwestern teams. I've long wondered why that's the case. People have any opinions?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 08, 2005, 01:13:16 PM
Good question GB15, I've often wondered that myself.  My guesses would be, in no particular order:

*40 or so D3 hoops programs within the borders of New York, far more than any other state.

*More local support for D3 in the farm towns and other villages/cities out there makes the local kids actually dream about playing for Wooster or Illinois Wesleyan or UW-Take Your Pick.

*Roster turnover...seems to plague the SUNYAC and CUNYAC teams quite a bit.  Those conferences also have major budgetary issues.

Gurus of D3Hoops.com that are floating around these boards, your takes? Why is the East the Least?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 08, 2005, 01:25:16 PM
I think all those reasons are valid.  But I think the biggest reason is because they are very few D-2 schools in the midwest so kids either get a D-1 scholarship or they play D-3.  Hence these teams are loaded.  I mean Wisc. Stevens Point had atleast 4 guys who would have been stars at Lemoyne up in Syracuse.
I think that is the biggest reason.  Around the East coast we have many D-2 schools that take up the better talent after D-1's are through with their pickens.

Just a thought!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 08, 2005, 02:15:20 PM
Clear C has a point.
The number of d2 schools does make a difference.
Also to piggyback on that thought look at the number of d1 schools.
It is a trickle down effect.
The more the draw the less quality.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 08, 2005, 02:55:43 PM
After a down year, it seems the LL has a couple solid teams.  Union has wins over Utica and Williams (@ Williams) and Hamilton is 6-0 already (the competition has been weak, though). 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 08, 2005, 04:36:33 PM
Bamm, it will be a two dog race in the LL between the aforementioned Hamilton and Union. True that Hamilton has yet to play anyone of note, but the margins of victory are pretty convincing so it seems like the Conts are back to their old ways. Union looks very good, like you said, and took out Williams in Massachusetts.

And, Bamm, I saw your NFL picks for last week...I sure hope you didn't bet Baltimore -9. When I saw that, I shuttered. I basically did an Irish jig when I saw a Kyle Boller-quarterbacked team was giving 9 points to anyone.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 08, 2005, 04:45:40 PM
I didn't pick them at -9.  I picked them at -8.   :-[

No biggy, no money on the line.   As much as the Ravens can't score, I was not prepared to bet on the Texans after the debacle in Houston the week before (Rams comeback). 

Back to basketball, I think Utica plays Hamilton relatively soon.  Lucky them, scheduling the two good teams in the LL.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 08, 2005, 05:29:29 PM
Good, I was worried for you, bud. If I were still gambling, I'd have made a small fortune on that game between betting it straight up and teasing it with every other game in the NFL.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 08, 2005, 09:51:34 PM
Hartwick over Bard, 53-41. I wonder if anyone in the crowd fell asleep for this one?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 09, 2005, 08:22:51 AM
ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: unbearable on December 09, 2005, 08:30:32 AM
Then again, the possibility of Respect the Hawks and Howard "Raptormania" Megdal sitting next to each other might cause the world to be knocked off its axis from so much unwarranted hype concentrated in the same place.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: HawkEmpire on December 09, 2005, 11:02:30 AM
First off, I am new to this board.

I am a Oneonta, NY resident.  I have been following Hartwick Basketball for years. The past 5 years have been extremely tough for the program and the fan base. Fortunately, Hartwick this season is looking much better than in previous seasons. I respect Head Coach, Paul Culp tremendously. He has come in at a very tough time for athletics at Hartwick and have managed to begin to rebuild the program. With his two recruting classses, he has brought in some talent into the program. There is only one player (Senior John Montana) that is still on the team that Paul inherited from the old program. The biggest challenge Paul Culp and his coaching staff has is forming the talent. The future of Hartwick Basketball has arrived at Hartwick, but will take a year or so to develop. Between now and then I think Hartwick has a decent chance of wining a fair amount of games this season. However, the fun doesn't begin for another year or so until these players fully develop.

I am looking forward to watching an improving (finally) basketball squad. Hartwick might be a major player in the E8 come a year or so.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 09, 2005, 11:04:17 AM
My biased predictions for the Weekend's Games at RIT:

Wilkes - 64
Oswego - 70

York - 60
RIT - 76

Oswego - 70
RIT - 73

Number of Drew Martin bench celebrations that involve a dance move -- 3.  (Comon, Drew)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on December 09, 2005, 11:32:15 AM
Anyone getting the feeling that Hawkempire is pulling a JoshReed from last year
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 09, 2005, 11:33:40 AM
I smell a rat! :P
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2005, 11:52:47 AM
E8 games on the slate for this weekend:

Friday

Potsdam at Alfred
St.Lawrence at Ithaca
York(NY) at RIT
St.John Fisher at Geneseo

Saturday

St.Lawrence at Alfred
Potsdam at Ithaca
Oswego/Wilkes at RIT
Oneonta St at Hartwick
Naz at SUNY-Old Westbury
SUNYIT at Utica

Sunday
Fitchburg St/St.Joseph's(L.I.) at Hartwick


In other games last night, Utica thumped Cazenovia, 101-70. Kafele Fleming led a balanced attack for the Pioneers with 17 points. Utica had five players scoring between 11 and 17 points. Justin Cichon scored 13 and Willie Lucas added 13 of his own off the bench.

I'm not sure if HawkEmpire is RTH or not. He seems to have a better handle on the English language than RTH. That is, of course, unless he spent an hour editing his post. The one thing that smells fishy is that RTH wasn't on here singing the praises of Hartwick after one of their last wins of the season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 09, 2005, 12:01:56 PM
I guess it's not impossible that there might be 2 Hartwick fans in the universe.  Highly improbable, yes, but impossible, no ;D

The optimism from the fans of our league's most downtrodden member (well, except for Elmira, but there's really no evidence that EC even realizes it has an athletics department, let alone gives a crap about its performance) is nice, but I'm taking an "I'll believe it when I see it" approach to Hartwick's alleged resurgence.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 09, 2005, 12:52:17 PM
Caz,
great quote on the bottom of your posts!

Reed did have a propensity for butchering the language, but still this may be an imporved model!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 09, 2005, 12:53:39 PM
Yet I now can't spell!! :P
How is geneseo?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 09, 2005, 01:03:44 PM
Let's play pickem with GB15's post:

(picks in parens)

Friday

Potsdam at Alfred  (Potsdam)
St.Lawrence at Ithaca  (Ithaca)
York(NY) at RIT (RIT)
St.John Fisher at Geneseo  (Fisher)

Saturday

St.Lawrence at Alfred  (Alfred)
Potsdam at Ithaca (Potsdam)
Oswego/Wilkes at RIT (RIT)
Oneonta St at Hartwick  (Hartwick!)
Naz at SUNY-Old Westbury (Naz)
SUNYIT at Utica (Utica)


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2005, 01:08:49 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 09, 2005, 12:53:39 PM
Yet I now can't spell!! :P
How is geneseo?

Of the games they played against teams from around here, Geneseo is 1-3 but the losses have all been close games. G-State lost by 7 @Oswego, by 3 at home in OT vs SUNYIT and by 5 @Alfred. Their one win in those four games was a 17-point whupping @Plattsburgh St. They look like they'll be just below a middle-of-the-road SUNYAC team, probably battling for a #7 or #8 seed in the SUNYAC tourney.

The Blue Knights have three players who average in double-figures, led by former Fairport product Steve McDonnell(14.5 ppg). Tarik Kitson and Greg Spears each average a shade over 10ppg.

If I were predicting this game, I'd say Fisher wins by 11-14 points. It would be a lot worse if the game were at SJF.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 09, 2005, 01:32:38 PM
Thanks GB!
Man Roch got lucky- we got hammered by this snow in Utica today!
Go Fish!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on December 09, 2005, 02:18:27 PM
BAMM  I think we gotta stick with St. Lawrence at Alfred.  They're good and have a former Blue Devil averaging 16 a game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 09, 2005, 02:42:23 PM
Former Blue devil?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2005, 03:09:31 PM
Without looking at the roster, and knowing col and bamm are from the same area, I'm gonna guess that may mean there's a player from their former high school that plays for SLU. In addition, they're from the North Country so that's just an educated guess.

Don't worry, not a former Dukie. Though I'd welcome the opportunity to throw debris at him if he were.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 09, 2005, 03:24:21 PM
Gotcha,
What hs?
Anyway have fun while we dig out!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 09, 2005, 03:55:35 PM
Hey GoBombers15- How is the Pocahontas BobbleHead camp out going? It must be pretty cold and snowy up there in the birth place of recycling (Ithaca).  Just in case you didn't see Hartwick took last night's game against Bard. Yes, that is right Hartwick is 4-2. What is Ithaca's? 0-4. The point of the season is to get numbers on the left side. Ithaca is the weakest link...Season Cancel. I hope the bombers get a pitty win tonight.

More later. I am on the way back from Florida.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2005, 04:35:04 PM
Quote from: Respect_the_hawks on December 09, 2005, 03:55:35 PM
Hey GoBombers15- How is the Pocahontas BobbleHead camp out going? It must be pretty cold and snowy up there in the birth place of recycling (Ithaca). Just in case you didn't see Hartwick took last night's game against Bard. Yes, that is right Hartwick is 4-2. What is Ithaca's? 0-4. The point of the season is to get numbers on the left side. Ithaca is the weakest link...Season Cancel. I hope the bombers get a pitty win tonight.

More later. I am on the way back from Florida.

You're not very creative, RTH.

1)You took the "recycling" reference from me when I said Ithacans are too worried about recycling to realize there's a basketball team. Since you're undoubtedly very dense, I'll explain that for you. Ithaca--both the school and town--are very liberal, environmentally conscious places. On any given day you could walk right into the middle of a group protesting the materials used for the Smoothie containers. True story, that happened.

2)You took the Pocahontas reference, as well. I wondered aloud who Paul Smith's best player was and decided it must be Pocahontas. Pocahontas bobblehead night? What the hell does that mean?

Start bringing some creative smack or don't even bother. Over/Under on the amount of seconds RTH's call would last on the Jim Rome Show: 2.5. It would surely start with, "Well, folks, the Har--"(BUZZER)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 09, 2005, 04:37:06 PM
Yes, Col.  Totally slipped my mind.  

New Prediction -- SLU over Alfred.  Gotta know where my allegiance lies.

fisheralum -  Ogdensburg Blue Devils, roughly 20 miles from the SLU campus  
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on December 09, 2005, 05:07:05 PM
Col & BAMM, this just in:

SLU is who I pick, based on their tough game against U of R.  They are big, with three great shooters, including your former Blue Devil.

Remember all Blue Devil hoopers at the core still have Potsdam roots thanks to the Jedi master of North Country hoops, Bill Merna.

P.S.  I think D-III hoops has a misprint.  Geneseo got wasted by Plattsburgh.  According to Geneseo, the score was Plattsburgh 71 Geneseo 54, and that was without Gibbs-Smith. 

Geneseo is big inside, with three OK big men, so they may expose Fisher's inside weakness, particularly if Minton has talked to Dobbs lately.  Fisher's guard pairing of O'Brien and Auman is a choice Division III backcourt.

Plattsburgh will be a handful as the season progresses.  Their three quality newbies, a D-I transfer (Morgan State), a D-II transfer (Post U. of CT) and a prize freshman from Xavierian in NYC are all seeing lots of PT, and learning how to step up.

When Gibbs-Smith, who may be the most talented one-on-one offensive player in the Region gets back to 100%, the Cardinals could surprise a lot of teams, particularly on the second night of those SUNYAC North Country swings.

If the weather holds there will be a few pilgrims making the Trek from Potsdam to Ithaca tomorrow afternoon to observe Dobbs' return to the bulb and a last matchup with the players he helped to recruit. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 09, 2005, 08:48:48 PM
Hey RTH all I have to say is Saturday is revelation Saturday for you.  If they don't win I don't think you can keep eggin bomber on.  Looking forward to that score.
In the meantime IT versus Utica.  love that rivalry!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2005, 08:59:51 PM
Ithaca leading at half over SLU, 30-29.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2005, 09:34:04 PM
Bombers on an 8-0 spurt, lead SLU by a score of 51-42 with 8:51 remaining.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2005, 10:07:21 PM
ITHACA WINS! Bombers hang on for their first victory of the season, defeating St.Lawrence, 70-61. Jim Bellis leads the Bombers with 14 points. Eat it, RTH.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on December 09, 2005, 10:11:42 PM
Obviously D-III Hoops user interface must be difficult.  They have the score reversed.  St. Lawrence 70, Ithaca 61.

I assume your contact was at the game and has reported the score accurately.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on December 09, 2005, 10:21:57 PM
Fisher wins
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2005, 10:32:05 PM
thebear, I listened to the game on Ithaca's student radio station and, yes, d3hoops.com has it backwards. Ithaca won, 70-61. Listening to d3 bball on a Friday night...this is the life! I'm lazy and didn't feel like wiping my car off at all today so I'm not going out. Here in Allentown(PA), we got dumped on pretty bad last night so it's been a pretty quiet day/night.

From the looks of the RIT website, Wilkes apparently did not make the trip up to Rochester. RIT/York tonight(score not reported), Oswego/York tomorrow at 2pm, RIT/Oswego at 3pm on Sunday. Wilkes-Barre must have got it pretty bad, too.

As Ricco reported, Fisher knocks off Geneseo, 75-61. I believe I estimated the Cards would win by 11-14. I'm 2-for-2 on those babies, bring on the gambling this weekend!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2005, 11:27:36 PM
Good night for the E8 as Alfred knocks off visiting and previously undefeated Potsdam, 72-65. Coupled with the Fisher victory over Geneseo, the E8 goes 2-0 vs SUNYAC tonight to make up for it's 1-2 showing earlier in the week. I, however, refuse to engage in the SUNYAC vs E8 argument because it's pointless and different teams matchup better against certain teams. Should be interesting the way things turn out with only a few more E8/SUNYAC games on this year's schedule.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on December 09, 2005, 11:52:55 PM
Good win Fisher...Really nervous at halftime(down by 1). 

Seems like a good night for the E8 overall, Alfred, Ithaca, and Fisher all with quality wins...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 10, 2005, 10:40:38 AM
GB15 -  Yeah, I wasn't happy when I got to the gym in time for the Oswego game.  I believe NYC got hammered just as bad as Northern PA, but York made the drive despite playing a game on Thursday night.  Playing Oswego today means three games in three days for them. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on December 10, 2005, 12:01:48 PM
Bamm, don't believe York's playing Sunday unless Wilkes appears then. Oswego this afternoon meets York, then faces RIT in Sunday matinee
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 10, 2005, 12:50:07 PM
JDex, I think he means they're playing three games in three days because they had a game near NYC on Thursday night, played RIT last night and has the afternoon game against Oswego today.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on December 10, 2005, 04:37:43 PM
Yeah, gb15, if we had properly scanned bamm's post we would have realized. Thanx

RIT over York 66-61 on Friday. York playing Oswego this afternoon in York's 11th game of the season. It beat NY City Tech on Thursday and Medgar Evers on Tuesday. Talk about busy!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 10, 2005, 05:31:59 PM
With just under four minutes remaining, Ithaca leads visiting Potsdam by a score of 83-47. Yes, you read that correctly. I'm pretty sure Jim Mullins missed today's game, as well as last night's win against SLU, due to a family funeral. Not to make light of a serious situation, but go figure...2-0 without Mullins.

Hey RTH, we just rolled a team that is better than all four of your wins combined. Still think Hartwick will do better than Ithaca in conference play?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 10, 2005, 05:36:07 PM
Final score from South Hill:

Ithaca   90
Potsdam 58

Wow. That's all I can say.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 10, 2005, 06:52:26 PM
Actually it was 90-52.  Even better....too bad we don't play again til January.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 10, 2005, 10:24:40 PM
Sorry, Caz, the ICB announcers were saying it as I posted it. Obviously, this is a huge win for the Bombers against the defending SUNYAC champs. Like you said, though, not another game until January, hopefully this momentum has a long life.

The Bombers come back on January 6th to start conference play. That weekend the Bombers will host RIT on Friday night and Naz comes to the South Hill on Saturday afternoon. Absolutely huge weekend for the Bombers as they could theoretically be 2-0 or 0-2 and nobody would really be that surprised.

I can't wait for RTH's inevitable "win column" comparison. He's been inconspicuous by his absence since Ithaca has started winning.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on December 10, 2005, 11:25:17 PM
Utica beats SUNY IT 80-72. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 11, 2005, 07:35:27 AM
Visiting my sister in Franklin today, I am going over to the Hartwick tournament to see the Hawks play Fitchburg State and Oneonta play SJ of LI.  I will try to honestly assess them for Bomber and RTH.

Go Utica,  a great win in a rivalry game!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 11, 2005, 09:53:19 AM
Part I: Creation of an Empire

Q: What do the Hartwick Hawks have in common with the following Empires:?

1. 1980 Olympic Men's Hockey Team
2. Duke Baseketball
3. USC Trojans
4. New England Patriots
5. New York Yankees
6. Boston Red Soxs
7. The Roman Empire

A: All these programs and the Roman Empire weren't fully developed in one or two years or even three.

The building phase of these programs and the Roman Empire had their fair share of loses before they started to consistantly win.

In terms of Hartwick Basketball. The nucleus has arrived, but it is young. Believe it or not Hartwick Basketball is in the embryonic stages of putting together a strong basketball program.

With this in mind it is important to have perspective. Hartwick currently has 10 freshmen, 2 Sophmores, 3 Juniors, 2 Seniors. Hartwick has been giving a ton of playing time to freshmen and sophmores, who are in turn playing against juniors and seniors. The reality is experience and talent has been overpowering rookie talent. Tell me a NBA or even a College Team who has done well with primarily freshmen or first year players in the lineup? Very few or none at all. If you are a Hartwick fan, it is important to have perspective. Our time will come.

With all of this being said every game Hartwick goes into the players are gaining valuable experience. Win or lose, Hartwick is getting better and moving closer to reaching its final goals. Every team, including the other Empire 8 teams, that has the priveleged to play Hartwick is contributing the creation of an Empire.

Part II will come out later


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 11, 2005, 10:21:35 AM
Hey Spect the hawks,
Um first Red Sox is already is plural - you don't add the s, and second - enjoy the wins - but put down the rose colored glasses.
Wick is enjoying a good start- one that you can "spect" but dear god open your eyes and reread some of your posts!
You are comparing wick to superpowers- apples and well not even oranges- grapes maybe.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 11, 2005, 11:14:26 AM
*****Updated*****My darn staff made a typo..

Part I: Creation of an Empire

Q: What do the Hartwick Hawks have in common with the following Empires:?

1. 1980 Olympic Men's Hockey Team
2. Duke Baseketball
3. USC Trojans
4. New England Patriots
5. New York Yankees
6. Boston Red Sox
7. The Roman Empire

A: All these programs and the Roman Empire weren't fully developed in one or two years or even three.

The building phase of these programs and the Roman Empire had their fair share of loses before they started to consistantly win.

In terms of Hartwick Basketball. The nucleus has arrived, but it is young. Believe it or not Hartwick Basketball is in the embryonic stages of putting together a strong basketball program.

With this in mind it is important to have perspective. Hartwick currently has 10 freshmen, 2 Sophmores, 3 Juniors, 2 Seniors. Hartwick has been giving a ton of playing time to freshmen and sophmores, who are in turn playing against juniors and seniors. The reality is experience and talent has been overpowering rookie talent. Tell me a NBA or even a College Team who has done well with primarily freshmen or first year players in the lineup? Very few or none at all. If you are a Hartwick fan, it is important to have perspective. Our time will come.

With all of this being said every game Hartwick goes into the players are gaining valuable experience. Win or lose, Hartwick is getting better and moving closer to reaching its final goals. Every team, including the other Empire 8 teams, that has the priveleged to play Hartwick is contributing the creation of an Empire.

Part II will come out later
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 11, 2005, 02:39:03 PM
Quote from: Respect_the_hawks on December 11, 2005, 11:14:26 AM
Every team, including the other Empire 8 teams, that has the priveleged to play Hartwick is contributing the creation of an Empire.


How can anyone take RTH seriously when he says stuff like this? I'm sure every team that steps on the court with the Hawks stop and reflect on just how lucky they are to even be in the same building with a team bearing Hartwick's vaunted and prestigous logo. If anything, teams are so pleased to be playing 'Wick because they all know it's an automatic win.

Your school is a joke and your team is about two years away from making any noise. Enjoy 7th or 8th place in the conference.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 11, 2005, 05:20:01 PM
RIT gets a win today over SUNY Oswego.  With that, it looks like the E8 has at least 4, possibly 5 quality teams -- Fisher, Utica, Alfred, RIT, and Naz.  I have no idea what to make of Ithaca or Hartwick.  Elmira is Elmira.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 11, 2005, 05:48:49 PM
Bamm, if you're going to call Naz and Alfred "quality" teams, you have to throw Ithaca in there, too. Naz/Alfred are no better than Ithaca right now. Ithaca's 2-5 record is very deceiving. Except for maybe Alfred, nobody in the E8 has played the schedule Ithaca has. Excluding the Hobart game(which they played an awful 1st half and just couldn't make up that ground), they haven't lost to a bad team yet. Hampden-Sydney will be a top 15 team before the season is over, Roanoke has a very good record and C-State is a very good, consistent SUNYAC team(probably the best right now). Three of Ithaca's five losses have been by 2, 4 and 6 points, respectively.

Are Naz and Alfred better than Ithaca? They may be. But basing my conclusion on the evidence seen over the past 2 years, I wouldn't bet the house on it. This is how I think it shakes out going into the conference season:

Excellent
St.John Fisher

Very Good
Utica

Good
RIT

Slightly Above Average
Ithaca
Naz
Alfred

The Rest
Hartwick
Elmira

This is relative to the conference, not the nation. I just don't think you can discount a team that just put it on a good Potsdam team by 38 points and handled a tough young St.Lawrence squad.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 11, 2005, 08:33:13 PM
OK guys just back home from visiting my sister and seeing Hartwick/Fitchburg and Oneonta/SJ.
Here is what I think.  Oneonta won the tournament and looks to be ok.  The Coffey kid is a solid player who needs screens to score but is a very good shooter.  Other than that not enough talent to win in the State league.  I can se why my Pioneers beat them double digits.
SJ is ok, need not worry about them.
Fitchburgh is ok, but nothing to write home about.

And that brings us to Hartwick.  I don't see the stuff that RTH is talking about.  They are getting better but are they going to beat good teams????  not sure about that.

Their bug guy is fat and slow ad guard play suspect.  But they seem to play together and are defintely more talented than a year ago.

I don't see them where RTH is but I don't think their as bad as Bomber thinks either.
Somewhere in the middle of those guys.

Go Pioneers!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 11, 2005, 10:00:35 PM
GB15,

I'm not prepared to include any team that is 2-5 in a list of "quality" teams.  Do I understand that every year Ithaca plays tough early-season competition, much better than what the rest of the E8 plays?  Yes.  Do I think they could be a contender for a playoff spot?  Yes, they could.  But it's going to take more than a win at home over Potsdam to prove it to me, especially after Potsdam lost again the next day.   

I probably should have left my list at 4 teams, instead of saying "possibly 5" and including Naz.  I think the Flyers have more talent than the Bombers, but they are also unproven .  We'll have a better idea around February.

Moving on, I'm pleasantly surprised by the performance of RIT so far.  Nice win over Oswego today, and if they beat Cortland on Tuesday they'll be on a serious roll going into winter break, with their only loss coming down to the last minute against 10th ranked WPI. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 14, 2005, 02:27:52 PM
Hartwick College Men's Basketball:
The Future Empire 8- Powerhouse


Coming to a Gym near you:

Friday, January 27 -->@RIT, 8pm
Saturday, January 28, --> @Nazareth, 4pm

Friday, February 3 --> @St John Fisher, 8pm
Saturday, February 4 --> @Alfred, 4pm

Friday, February 17, --> @Elmira, 8pm
Saturday, February 18, --> @Ithaca, 4pm*

Tuesday, February 21, --> @Utica, 8pm

* Free Pocahontas bobblehead dolls to the 100 first Ithaca fans. Back by popular demand thanks to Gobombers15.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 14, 2005, 02:44:11 PM
I think we can all agree that RTH is no longer being serious and is simply here for our own entertainment. I'd continue to make fun of him but I have more difficult things to do with my time, such as beating my three year-old cousin at Madden 2006 and then stealing all her toys.

Elsewhere, Cortland St defeats RIT on Tuesday night, 66-52. RIT center Tim Bacon has another big game with 19 points, 10 rebs and 2 blocks. Cortland uses a 23-3 run early in the 2nd half to pull away in a game they led most of the way. All of a sudden, Ithaca's 2-point loss to the Dragons at home doesn't seem too bad considering how Cortland handled RIT and Alfred.

Bamm, I understand why you didn't include Ithaca in your "quality teams" remark, but if your explanation that you can't call a 2-5 team "quality" then how do you call a 2-4 Naz team, who has only defeated one team(Pitt-Bradford) two times, a "quality team?" I think most would agree that both Potsdam and SLU are better teams than P-B...and that's not even considering the fact Ithaca won both those games by comfortable margins. I won't use the fact they only lost to Cortland by 2 or Roanoke by 4(on the road, no less) as evidence, but Ithaca isn't nearly as bad as most, especially RTH, are trying to depict them as.

I'd be very surprised if Ithaca doesn't have a winning record in conference play this year. That said, I'd be very surprised if Hartwick wins more than 1 or 2 conference games this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 14, 2005, 02:54:08 PM
GB15,

That's why, in my last post, I said:

I probably should have left my list at 4 teams, instead of saying "possibly 5" and including Naz.  I think the Flyers have more talent than the Bombers, but they are also unproven .  We'll have a better idea around February.

Cortland looked very good last night.  From the results we've seen so far this year, I have to think they are the favorites to win the SUNYAC. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 14, 2005, 02:58:38 PM
Feb 3rd.
Ooooooo.
RTH thanks for the laugh!! ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on December 14, 2005, 03:58:53 PM
RTH, I will make a bet with you if Hartwick beats fisher I will never say a bad thing about hartwick again in fact I will never post again if Hartwick can beat fisher.  But my guess is that the score to the hartwick fisher game will be similar to the football game in which fisher beat hartwick 70-40.  But if Hartwick loses do us all a favor and go away, at first you were funny, but now your just stupid, no wonder your a Hartwick fan
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 14, 2005, 10:10:16 PM
Bamm, fair enough. Hope you're having a fine time in the ROC with your lady friend. I should have never told her about facebook, she's an addict now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 15, 2005, 10:44:58 AM
Don't worry about it.  It's a chance for her to spy on old friends, gossip, and that sort of mischief.  She loves it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 15, 2005, 01:48:41 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 14, 2005, 02:58:38 PM
Feb 3rd.
Ooooooo.
RTH thanks for the laugh!! ;D


I agree.
Feb. 21
ooooo.
:D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 15, 2005, 02:21:54 PM
Hey bud crew-
This year's fisher UC game(s) should be pretty good!
Going to see any?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 16, 2005, 09:44:49 AM
Fisher's got a chance to make some noise for the E8 this weekend down in Virginia.  They play Lake Erie (6-1) on Saturday.  Win or lose, they will play either Lincoln (8-2) or Randolph-Macon (6-1) on Sunday.  Fisher, Lincoln, and RMC are all in the D3hoops.com top 25.  I'll actually be cheering for the Cardinals this weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 16, 2005, 11:19:44 AM
I tip my hat to ya bamm!
Hope they do the e8 proud!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 16, 2005, 11:42:59 AM
Starting off, here's a press release about UC's Justin Cichon from the d3hoops.com's homepage.

http://d3hoops.com/pressreleases.php?release=185

The Randolph-Macon tourney is actually Sunday and Monday. Weird, I know, but I'm assuming it's because no schools have classes or finals this week before Christmas. I did a very small amount of research on Lake Erie and, based on a bunch of scores against various common opponents(I know this can be fallacious, but there isn't much else to go on with this team), and if I had to make a comparison between them and an E8 team, I would compare Lake Erie to a poor-man's Alfred. They should be a decent squad but Fisher should handle them. Lake Erie is 6-1 but five of those wins are against teams with awful records. The other win came against 6-4 Bethany...not exactly sure, but I don't think they're a basketball superpower.

My prediction for the 1st round of the Randolph Macon Tourney:

Fisher over Lake Erie by 14.

Randolph Macon over Lincoln by 4.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 16, 2005, 12:49:38 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 15, 2005, 02:21:54 PM
Hey bud crew-
This year's fisher UC game(s) should be pretty good!
Going to see any?

It's a possibility. It all depends on the weather and my work schedule... just because I don't have a sked in front of me... when is the Fisher -UC showdown at UC?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 16, 2005, 12:51:54 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on December 16, 2005, 11:42:59 AM
Starting off, here's a press release about UC's Justin Cichon from the d3hoops.com's homepage.

http://d3hoops.com/pressreleases.php?release=185

The Randolph-Macon tourney is actually Sunday and Monday. Weird, I know, but I'm assuming it's because no schools have classes or finals this week before Christmas. I did a very small amount of research on Lake Erie and, based on a bunch of scores against various common opponents(I know this can be fallacious, but there isn't much else to go on with this team), and if I had to make a comparison between them and an E8 team, I would compare Lake Erie to a poor-man's Alfred. They should be a decent squad but Fisher should handle them. Lake Erie is 6-1 but five of those wins are against teams with awful records. The other win came against 6-4 Bethany...not exactly sure, but I don't think they're a basketball superpower.

My prediction for the 1st round of the Randolph Macon Tourney:

Fisher over Lake Erie by 14.

Randolph Macon over Lincoln by 4.



Thanks for that note on Justin. Pat C or anyone who might know... UC men's basketball was at a D-1 level for a few years in the 1980s when Larry Costello was coach. Do season, game or career records from those years count when talking about a player now passing on of those records?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 16, 2005, 02:10:56 PM
budcrew-
looks like the game is jan 6 at uc.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 16, 2005, 03:07:28 PM
That's fairly anti-climactic that Fisher plays at Utica in the first league game of the year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on December 16, 2005, 03:19:28 PM
Fisher@Utica will be tight.The teams match pretty even in size, but not  sure on talent. I know they have some good players and they always play good on their home court. They also have a very good coach and I mean good.Playing at home gives Utica the edge. If Fisher plays defense the way they did last year,they will win a close one. I hope Fisher's defense is ready.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 17, 2005, 12:54:59 PM
Being around the UC program for years, I can honestly say this is the best UC team I have seen.

The attitude around the program is great. You can feel the winning atmosphere when you spend time near them. They are young, and will take time before they fully develop into the force that they can be.

The Freshmen and transfers are huge to this team. There are guys who started last year that are deep off the bench, and are just happy to be part of a winning program.

Herring at PG is a huge difference maker. The guy can shoot (7 3's against SUNYIT), throw it down, drive, pass, play great D, and is a quiet leader on the court. Probably the most athletic PG in the conference.

Bryant has been huge. His leadership and team play are amazing. He is truly a mature player who brings a lot more than his talent and athleticism (Which are great) to the table. Having a guy who is pretty much a guard at 6'5 has been a big help in adjusting to life without Tim Troy.

Cichon is poised for a great year. The team has 4-6 guys in double figures every night. Teams can no longer focus on Justin as there are so many scoring options. His passing has actually improved.

I could spend a great deal of time on every player on the roster. There are no weak links. With Lighthall, Lucas, and Brown down low, teams can plan on getting beat up. They may not be the tallest, but they play big. The fact that Lucas can play like a guard as well makes him even more dangerous.

When Brown was out at Caz, the freshmen Fleming got the start. After seeing limited time in the previous games, he scored 17.

Having Collier, Munch, Bitetto, Lucas, Fleming, and others on the bench makes this the deepest Utica team in years.

The team lacks in height, but makes up for it in athleticism, attitude, speed, hustle, and in my opinion, is by far the best passing team in the conference. They have an absurd percentage of assists to field goals.

The early season games against top teams in the league will be a great test. However, it is at the end of the season when this young team puts it all together, when this team will show what it can really do.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 17, 2005, 01:21:39 PM
UCgrad, thanks for the thorough report on the Pioneers. We all know about Cichon and his accomplishments, but you did a nice job covering some of the unheralded role players that make the team tick. I think Utica is locked into the #2 position in the E8.

However, if the Pioneers want to make "the leap" and challenge Fisher for the conference title, they need to learn how to win on the road. We all know UC is an elite home team; they gave Fisher a battle in the last conference game of the season in Utica. Unfortunately, they've looked like garbage on the road. They lost to Fisher by about 30 in Pittsford and never seem to beat RIT in Rochester, either. The Pioneers' last two trips to the South Hill to play IC have left a lot to be desired.

My point is this: Utica will be a very good team and an opponent will have to play a near-perfect game in Utica to beat them, but that doesn't matter if they are a .500 team on the road. Fisher isn't losing more than one or two conference games this season so unless Utica becomes a good road team, I think most E8 fans can plan on spending the E8 Tournament weekend in Pittsford for the third straight year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 17, 2005, 02:45:51 PM
Bombers,

   Thanks for the reply.

The Road issue is one that is being stressed by coach Goodemote this season. To date UC is 4-1 on the road.

It isn't so much winning on the road that is the problem, it is winning in Rochester. There seems to be a different style of officiating and play there. It often times is frustrating to teams from out of the area.

Thats why UC is going to be fighting hard to host the tournament this year. Two seasons ago at this point the goal was to host, last year at this point it was to make the E8 tournament, this year it is again to host.

Either way, with the team structure entirely different than past seasons, I think it is to early to make judgement on how they will be over the course of the season on the road.




On another topic, I see a lot on here about Hartwick with views on the team from both extremes.  After talking with other coaches and observing who they have played, I can honestly say that Hartwick is a much improved team that plays hard every game and will make you work.
That being said, they are a very young team with a lot of room for improvement. They are not yet to the level of a top 5 team in the conference, and probably no better than 7th or 8th. A few years down the line they may be contending for the 4th spot in the E8 tourny, depending on what happens in recruiting and transfers with the other teams.
However, dont be surprised if late in the season, they play spoiler to a team or two hoping to either make the conference tournament or fight for seeding in the tournament.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 17, 2005, 03:24:57 PM
UCgrad, it will be interesting to see how the conference shakes out if Utica is a successful road team this season. Despite being a native Rochesterian, I never had the opportunity to see D3 games in the area until last year when I was done with college and taking a year off before grad school. I can't really make any statements about the officials in the area other than they are typical D3 refs and tend to be, um, below average.

I do agree with you that the Rochester teams tend to get more home calls than the other squads. Before there's an upheaval, I'll explain myself. McVean and Kornaker are well-respected coaches. Well-respected coaches tend to get calls with referees with whom they are familiar. I can remember many instances where I was sitting in Ithaca's gym, turned to a friend and asked if we could get a call...one call! It felt like we were the visitors at home! Like Coach K of Duke, Kornaker is a master at working the officials. He starts early and keeps it going all game. He will battle for every call and if I were one of his players I'd appreciate that as much as his players surely do.

This, however, has no bearing on the fact that RIT and Fisher are consistently very good basketball teams coached by very good coaches. In no way, shape or form am I saying officials are the reason for their successes; these teams would be good no matter who was reffing. All I'm saying is I do see where UCgrad is coming from about the relative style difference between the central NY refs and the Rochester-area officials.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on December 17, 2005, 05:12:22 PM
UC grad. Lets leave the refs out of this.Last
year Fisher won in  the last few seconds of the game by defense. I was at the game nd UC had a chance for last shot and  had the ball stolen,refs had nothing to do with it. The home team always gets the calls. So do'nt blame the refs for UC's loses yet. I think the game at UC will be close.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 17, 2005, 05:42:02 PM
Damn, and I thought we were going to make it through Christmas break without hearing from any obnoxious Fisher students. 

The UC poster made no mention of any specific game.  In your Fisher-centric arrogance, you just assumed he was talking about your school. 

Can we lay off the new posters who have something sensible to say, please?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hawk Backer on December 17, 2005, 07:11:03 PM
Lake Erie is better than a lot of people think around here.

I am calling for the upset.  I don't think Fisher can stay with Richardson, Wasthington and Williams.  Not even mentioning Harris, who was conference preseason POY.

They've also beaten D2 Edinboro this season, after Edinboro made the NCAA Tournament a year ago.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 17, 2005, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: Hawk Backer on December 17, 2005, 07:11:03 PM
Lake Erie is better than a lot of people think around here.

I am calling for the upset. I don't think Fisher can stay with Richardson, Wasthington and Williams. Not even mentioning Harris, who was conference preseason POY.

They've also beaten D2 Edinboro this season, after Edinboro made the NCAA Tournament a year ago.

After what happened in their first game of the year, don't expect Fisher to take any team lightly. Lake Erie has played nobody and, regardless of their statistics, have yet to step on the court with a team the caliber of Fisher. I can't see Lake Erie being any better than Alfred, really.

And, thanks, but I'll take O'Brien, Auman, McGee and Beigel against whatever hacks you just mentioned.

Ricco, I don't think the UCgrad mentioned any particular game or school where the officiating was tremendously he awful. He just said the game is reffed differently in Rochester...he could be referring to RIT, Naz or Fisher. Let's not run off a poster who actually has an intelligent opinion and has a grasp on the English language...two things RTH has none of.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hawk Backer on December 17, 2005, 09:08:14 PM
First of all, re-read the post.  I never said Fisher was going to take them lightly.  I said Lake Erie is better than people think. 

And to be honest, a D2 program that went to the tournament last year and lost to D1 Penn State by only 13 is, I would say, "as good" as Fisher and would not be the equivalent of "nobody".

I'm not saying Lake Erie is going to dominate.  Never did.  I simply stated that I believe they can, and will, pull the upset on a neutral floor.

We will see how "the hacks" fair.

PS- Without looking, do you even know where Lake Erie College is located?  I would guess not.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 17, 2005, 09:49:15 PM
Yes, in Ohio.

I visited at Case Western Law after I had to evacuate from New Orleans and Tulane Law. One kid in one of my classes went to Lake Erie and, yes, he was a moron.

Eat it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hawk Backer on December 17, 2005, 10:00:18 PM
Did I say they were smart?

I said they could play ball.

And please respond to the rest of my post.  Thank you.

PS- The fact that you are in law school really does impress me.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 17, 2005, 10:22:28 PM
First off, friend, do I care if the fact I'm a law school student impresses you? Nope. As a general rule, do I care what any Hartwick grad or "Hawk backer" cares about me? That's a negativo. But since all you Hartwick grads have a different definition of the word "fact," I'll indulge you with this analysis:

-Combined record of Lake Erie's D3 opponents: 19-31(and that's including 6-4 Bethany)

-Combined winning percentage of Lake Erie's D3 opponents: .380

-Lake Erie lost to 4-5 Capital...usually a good team, but experiencing a down year yet still easily took care of Lake Erie

-Lake Erie D3 wins: Kenyon(who?), Mt.Union(this ain't football), Medaille(oooooh), Hilbert(huh?), Bethany(she sounds cute). I guess what I'm saying is they haven't exactly taken on the "who's who" of D3, if you will.

-Now, to the much-ballyhooed, stop-the-presses, front-page news victory over Edinboro. To you, I say this: who cares what they did last year? It's not last year, it's this year. I don't care if Edinboro made the tourney LAST YEAR, I don't care if they lost to Penn State by "only" 13 points LAST YEAR. By the way, is that the same Penn St team that got their asses tanned at Pitt by 37 points(ouch!)? Or is it the same Penn St team that won't even win 4 games in the Big Eleven this year? Sure, it's a decent win for Lake Erie, but I think Fisher can beat some D2 teams, and good ones at that.

I'm not knocking Lake Erie. I did say they haven't really played anyone and, considering what I've shown, I stand by that statement. I said Fisher would win by about 11-15 points. That's not a drubbing, bud. That could mean Fisher is up six most of the way then just hits foul-shots. Calm yourself, broseph.

My question is this: why all the venom towards Fisher and their fans from Hartwick fans? Don't you have smaller fish to fry...like Elmira! Elmira's the reason you can't get out of the basement, maybe you should hate on them for a little while and stop trying to get little victories over Fisher potentially losing games.

In the words of B-Rad from Malibu's Most Wanted, "Don't Hate!"

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hawk Backer on December 17, 2005, 11:08:12 PM
Check your facts.  I could give two SH*TS about Hartwick.  I'm not even a fan of the conference.

I graduated from a high D1 school that is a Tier 1 college in Upstate NY.  I would venture to guess it's a bit better than Hartwick College.  There are a few of my fellow classmates in both the NBA and NFL, so I'm pretty sure you can figure out the school.

Second...  Penn State would beat St. John Fisher by the same margin it beat Edinboro by.  If not more.  Take that one to the bank.

Thirdly... Who has Fisher beat this year?  And if you wanna actually argue, their schedule was pretty weak last year, too.  They lost to the only good team that they faced (Baldwin-Wallace), beat a bad Delaware Valley team, a Hobart team without their best player (Colby Feane, who was still playing football) and two SUNYAC schools: Fredonia, the doormat of the conference, and Geneseo, who isn't exactly knocking down any doors at 1-6.

Combined record of St. John Fisher's opponents: 16-25 (including 8-1 Baldwin-Wallace)

Winning percentage: .390

And Bethany beat Wheeling Jesuit, a D2 school, so scoff at that win all you'd like, but I'd like to believe it is at the very least comparable to the Cardinals drubbing of Geneseo State.

And finally, Mr. bomber.  I never said anything bad about St. John Fisher.  If you will read the post that I made on the AMCC board and re-read everything that I've said here, I state that they have proven to be one of the top D3 teams in the northeast and have said that Lake Erie was better than people thought around here and could, and I think will, pull the upset.

While the jury may still be out on both of these teams, the jury has reached a verdict in this case.  Keep working, though.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 18, 2005, 12:53:49 AM
Please, you have proven nothing other than you put too much stock in D3 teams beating D2 teams. In several instances, D3 teams ARE better than D2 teams.

Secondly, don't change my argument. My argument was that Lake Erie really hasn't beaten anyone. Fact. My argument was NOT that Lake Erie hasn't beaten anyone BUT Fisher has beaten teams. I know Fisher hasn't played anyone yet. You find me one place where I said Fisher has played a tough schedule. You'll be looking all night. There goes the main argument of your last post. However, I commend you for your attempt at twisting my words...you sure you're not a law school grad yourself?

My final prediction:

Fisher    78
Lake Minnetonka 65

Ok, no more defending Fisher, where's JoshReed when you need him. I think I just threw-up in my mouth twice...thinking about defending Fisher AND hoping for a JoshReed comeback.

But HawkBacker, if you care to continue this intellectual rock fight, I'd more than oblige. Got anymore "Team X beat a D2 team therefore they'll beat Fisher" logical masterpieces for us?

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 18, 2005, 09:32:15 AM
Quote from: bamm on December 17, 2005, 05:42:02 PM
Damn, and I thought we were going to make it through Christmas break without hearing from any obnoxious Fisher students. 

The UC poster made no mention of any specific game.  In your Fisher-centric arrogance, you just assumed he was talking about your school. 

Can we lay off the new posters who have something sensible to say, please?

Thank you bamm.

Ricco, all I said was that there was a different style of officiating in Rochester. I actually have friends on Fisher who won't deny that in Rochester, the non-rochester teams need to play a perfect game to win because they will not get a single call.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 18, 2005, 09:44:44 AM
QuoteBethany(she sounds cute).

That made me spit coffee onto my monitor.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 18, 2005, 09:52:41 AM
Utica is that good this year.  I agree with you Utica man.  As a long time fan of this crew this is the best team they have ever had in D-3.  I am looking forward to the season.  Go UTICA!

As an aside this Hawk thing sure is picking up steam.  Listen as I said, I saw them scrimmage Suny IT and then play in their tournament and they are much improved.  I don't know Bomber buddy, they may get you this year!!!!

And the REF's in Rochester suck.  You have to be 15 pts better than any of theose 3 Rochester schools to win a game.  That is a fact.

Later
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 18, 2005, 10:04:01 AM
Quote from: clearconceit on December 18, 2005, 09:52:41 AM
Utica is that good this year. I agree with you Utica man. As a long time fan of this crew this is the best team they have ever had in D-3. I am looking forward to the season. Go UTICA!

As an aside this Hawk thing sure is picking up steam. Listen as I said, I saw them scrimmage Suny IT and then play in their tournament and they are much improved. I don't know Bomber buddy, they may get you this year!!!!

And the REF's in Rochester suck. You have to be 15 pts better than any of theose 3 Rochester schools to win a game. That is a fact.

Later

They may be "improved" but I'm not sure they're on the level of even an Ithaca yet. I'll take my chances with Bellis/Andruskiewicz/Whetstone as well as a nice, improving young core of players like Stahn, Joe, Burton, and Scanlon.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 18, 2005, 11:57:24 AM
Fellas, I don't want you to think I harbor some irrational hatred for Hartwick College. Sure, I think RTH is the biggest space cadet since JoshReed, but I understand every school has a few bad apples and I don't hold it against the school or team.

Here's why I say Hartwick will be a two-win team, at best, in the conference:

0-8 before they even play their first conference game

I think we all agree that Hartwick will get swept by Fisher, Utica, Alfred, and RIT. They don't have the talent to hang with these teams. Sure, they may play one of them the close for a half at home(and we'll hear about it all season from RTH), but they don't have enough to beat those four teams.

Young teams struggle on the road

They won't beat Ithaca in The Bulb, I don't care what anyone says. Ithaca dominates them on the South Hill. Naz is also too good to let Hartwick come into their gym and take them, despite Naz coach Mike Daley's best efforts(I think he's a pretty bad coach). We're at 0-10 now.

Four winnable games

That leaves us with these four games: vs Ithaca, vs Naz, @Elmira, vs Elmira. As much as we talk about them passing Elmira, when's the last time they actually beat Elmira? Definitely not in the last two years. Elmira probably thinks the games against Hartwick are some of their better chances to win games.

For the sake of argument, let's give Hartwick a split of those two games(something that isn't guaranteed). They're now 1-11.

That leaves us with two games; vs Ithaca, vs Naz. Both teams are pretty poor road teams but I honestly just don't see Ithaca losing to Hartwick. Call it bias, I don't care. Naz is young, but plays hard and they'll need that game at Hartwick to stay in contention for the E8 tournament.
_______________________________________________________

That, my friends, is why I don't look for much from Hartwick this season. It's not because I think Oneonta is a disgusting city(which I do). It's not because I hate Hartwick college, because I don't. It's gonna be a tough road for Hartwick. If they can keep this core together they may be pushing for a E8 tourney berth when they're all seniors, just like Alfred will be doing this year. Alfred got pummeled when guys like Hallett, LeMasters, Stein, et al., were all underclassmen. But they kept their team together and will be a strong, experienced squad this year. Hartwick may do the same thing, but it won't be this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 18, 2005, 12:47:33 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on December 18, 2005, 09:52:41 AM

And the REF's in Rochester suck. You have to be 15 pts better than any of theose 3 Rochester schools to win a game. That is a fact.

Later

I think D3 refs everywhere are not good, not just in Rochester. Utica is 5-16 vs the three Rochester teams since '02-'03, that's more than reffing.

Good luck to Fisher this weekend at the R-MC tournament. Gotta support the conference.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on December 18, 2005, 01:47:34 PM
Fisher 26 Lake Erie 18. McGee high with (
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 18, 2005, 02:53:19 PM
Good luck too all conference teams over the holidays!!!!!!


Bomber I do hear ya buddy but you are sticking neck out there about Hartwick.  Don't let RTH get to you - he is defintely over the top about this team.  I will say one big difference between Alfred and Hartwick is the coaching.  If Hartwick keeps its nucleus together I don't think it takes them until seniors to win.  That is where coaching comes in and I think they are very well coached. 

It will be a fun year.  Of course I think Utica beats them by 20!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on December 18, 2005, 04:43:57 PM
Just for the record all the refs that do DIII games. Also do DI and DII Games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2005, 06:17:50 PM
Quote from: thebear on December 09, 2005, 10:11:42 PM
Obviously D-III Hoops user interface must be difficult.  They have the score reversed.  St. Lawrence 70, Ithaca 61.

Nope, not difficult at all. Just requires reading. I think sometimes schools assume they will be on the bottom or on the top box when it's always away team on top, home on the bottom. But it couldn't be easier -- two teams, two boxes for a score to be punched in.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on December 18, 2005, 07:09:03 PM
Fisher by 2, 57-55 over Lake Erie. Fisher was up by as much as 13 in the 2nd half but let Lake Erie back into it. Still nice to see a win against a quality team.

As far as the refs in the Rochester area being better or worse than refs from other areas I will say this, I agree with what I believe the original post was trying to say, the refs are not better or worse than other areas just much different.
I am not sure about them being so one sided that you have to be 15 points better to beat a rochester area team. I think Fisher and RIT being 2 of the stronger teams in the conference for the past several years has something to do with all the poor records from other teams playing in Rochester.

I know teams, all teams, struggle to win at fisher (have not lost a home game in 3 years), but I think many factors contribute to that, like having the best talent, having a strong fan base, and every other advantage that comes with playing at home.

One more thing, I hope one Fisher fans posts do not ruin it for all of us and create a situation where everyone hates Fisher, which tends to be the case. A few bad eggs just kill it for the Fisher fans I know, which are pretty dedicated, reasonable, and all around good fans.  I know I have wanted to get on here and tell some of em to stop.

GO FISHER...win a big one tomorrow against a good Randy Macoun team
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 18, 2005, 10:00:51 PM
Let's put an end to this crap about the refs being different in Rochester or somehow being biased towards Rochester schools.  We all know that referees can be influenced by the crowd, and sometimes home teams benefit from that influence.  Second, the reason the Rochester schools (Fisher, Naz, RIT) have been very good at home over the last 6 or 7 years is because they've had the best teams.  Take a look at the recent history of the All-Conference teams, it's pretty simple.  The only team outside of Rochester that has been as consistent is Ithaca.  Stop the conspiracy crap, it's boring.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 19, 2005, 07:25:58 AM
Good win for the alma mater.
Bring another one home!
Gobombers- thanks for your unwitting defense of fisher against Hawkbacker.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 19, 2005, 11:43:12 AM
Fisher at R-MC tonight at 6pm.

However, for those who feel like listening to the game, it will be simulcasted on tape delay at 8pm. Here's the link for those who feel like listening:

www.wysl1040.com

I listened a bit yesterday and the Fisher broadcaster(he does games alone) is pretty good. He was a lot better than I expected for a D3 broadcaster. Not the obnoxious homer that many in that profession tend to be at this level(see: Naz broadcasters). You can definitely hear in his voice when Fisher is doing well but he gives the opponents their due praise when it's warranted. Also, he's not afraid to make criticisms of Fisher when he has to.

If Fisher wins it'd be a huge win for the conference and could potentially help another E8 team to slip into the tourney, provided said team has a good enough record to get consideration.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 19, 2005, 11:45:56 AM
Go Fisher,
But if they do lose-does that drop them out of the top 25?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hawk Backer on December 19, 2005, 12:24:01 PM
Just wanted to come on and eat the proverbial crow.  I pumped up Lake Erie to win, and although they did not play bad, they did not play well enough to be a nationally-ranked squad.

Good luck this season.  With the addition of Bennett for the second half and the way Beigel stepped up yesterday, your team will be much better by the end of the season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 19, 2005, 12:47:22 PM
Fisheralum -

I think that depends on the manner of the loss.  If they get blown out, then yes, I think they'll fall out.  If it's a tight loss then I suspect they will fall a few spots to 24 or 25.  The pollsters here are generally reasonable, and a loss on the road to the #11 team isn't a reputation-crusher. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 19, 2005, 01:09:17 PM
Fisheralum--unless they lose by less than 5, I think they drop out. At this stage of the season pollsters tend to take a quick glance at records and then fill out their forms. Fisher will be 5-2 if they lose with a 1-2 record against teams with winning records. After what happened against Potsdam last year, I think people are going to be skeptical of Fisher.

That said, the top 25 doesn't matter right now. Ithaca was ranked #7 at one point this year in football...needless to say, they didn't finish close to that. If Fisher reels off a nice winning streak they'll be right back in it. Fisher should just worry about beating teams in the conference and they'll be fine.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 19, 2005, 02:10:08 PM
Polls are overrated.  However the limelight that they show for conferences is good.  Fisher dropped places last week even without a loss!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on December 19, 2005, 06:08:20 PM
I have a hard time getting into the polls. Of course I love it when Fisher is ranked high(like 7th) but they really don't prove much. I still don't unterstand how Fisher, with one loss to a top 20 team (although not top 25 at the time)can drop from 7th to 20th in a few weeks.
Having said all that, I really don't think Fisher is the 7th best team in the country.
It just seems strange that one loss by 9 points to a very good team is enough to drop a team 13 spots in the poll.

Oh well...go Cards
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 19, 2005, 06:58:44 PM
Quote from: the bird man on December 19, 2005, 06:08:20 PM
I have a hard time getting into the polls. Of course I love it when Fisher is ranked high(like 7th) but they really don't prove much. I still don't unterstand how Fisher, with one loss to a top 20 team (although not top 25 at the time)can drop from 7th to 20th in a few weeks.
Having said all that, I really don't think Fisher is the 7th best team in the country.
It just seems strange that one loss by 9 points to a very good team is enough to drop a team 13 spots in the poll.

Oh well...go Cards

Like I said, pollsters take a glance at their records then fill out their forms(or, in some cases, delegate the job to an assistant or SID). They probably saw Fisher at 4-1 while many other teams had played 8 or 9 games at that point...the result, a lower ranking for Fisher. Fisher won both their games that week and still fell. Bottom line, polls aren't that important. Fisher just needs a good ranking when the first regional poll comes out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on December 19, 2005, 07:11:54 PM
Fisher 32 macon-30  Half
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on December 19, 2005, 07:13:45 PM
Justin Beigel high with 10 points
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on December 19, 2005, 08:09:30 PM

Fisher losses by 7
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: 78rmc on December 19, 2005, 09:32:10 PM
Enjoyed watching the Fisher team at R-MC.  We were lucky to win against a quality team.  Fisher was a well coached and very disciplined team.  I think that Fisher outplayed us for most of the game, with RMC tough at the end, could have gone either way.  Will be pulling for you guys for the rest of the season.  I'm a fan of your program from what I saw this weekend at RMC.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 19, 2005, 10:00:02 PM
Wow, just listened to the game and it sounded like the refs called a terrible technical on Kornaker. Down 3, Gillett had a shot at a layup and there was contact but no call. There was a loose-ball which apparently Fisher had but the refs called a jump-ball, arrow to R-MC. Timeout on the floor and Kornaker was expressing his displeasure with the call and the ref was apparently waiting to him with the tech and he did. That was the game.

I know how I said the Fisher radio guy isn't much of a homer but he spent the last 5 minutes of his broadcast venting about how horrid the officiating was, and how the ref was just looking to give Kornaker a "T." To paraphrase, he essentially said the ref who gave the technical as the type of ref "who wants to be the difference in the game." I was kinda half-assedly listening to the game so I can't really make an opinion, but I give you this stat: R-MC takes 29 FT's, Fisher takes 10. You make your own inferences about that.

Either way, good game by both R-MC and Fisher. 78RMC, can you tell us about what happened there in the last sequence? You were there, I trust your word. Hopefully this gives Fisher a little more respect nationally and people won't be hating on the East so badly.

Congrats to Fisher and R-MC. Sounded like an NCAA game in the middle of December.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: 78rmc on December 19, 2005, 11:16:07 PM
Yeah, very unfortunate call by the ref during a critical time in the game.  I did not want to see the game tainted by the call and wished it had not happened.  From my vantage point, it did not visually look like much, but I could not hear what happened.  The action leading up to the timeout was a missed layup that hit the bottom of the rim, with two players holding the ball as they both fell out of bounds.  I thought it was a good held ball call. 

The game was very defensive with both teams shooting poorly.  The difference being Fisher not hitting the 3s in the second half.  RMC missed a lot of FTs.  Watching the game, it did not seem that the foul calls were one sided and fairly even.  However the stats proved otherwise.  I would say that RMC was quicker and thus caused more fouls by Fisher, plus Fisher is a more physical team.  RMC has a physical lineup available, but Coach seem to go with a quicker and smaller lineup in the second half. Such as using Dixon over Hawley and Carlson over Krovic for long stretchs during the second half.

Would love to see a rematch.  Fisher will do well this season and we're fortunate to have won. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 20, 2005, 11:51:45 AM
Just to prove we never know what the pollsters are doing, Fisher rises two spots to #18 with their weekend split at the R-MC tournament. I'm sure Fisher's performance bumped them up a couple notches in the eyes of the voters in that area. UR is at #20 and hopefully the Jackets and Fisher will actually play in the Chase this year. RIT ruined the opportunity of that happening last year.

Utica guys, can any of you answer my earlier question(three weeks ago) of what happened to Willie Lucas last season? He was playing early on then, all of a sudden, he was gone. He wasn't even on the roster. He definitely could have helped the Pioneers last season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 20, 2005, 12:07:56 PM
For us Rochesterians, early guess at the Chase seedings:

1-Fisher
2-UR
3-RIT
4-Brockport
5-Roberts
6-Keuka
7-Naz
8-Geneseo
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 20, 2005, 12:17:00 PM
GB15 -- I'm pretty sure last night's game was not considered in this week's Top 25.  My guess is that even if some voters got their ballots in late enough, most were in before the 6 o'clock tip-off.  I reserve the right to be wrong, though.

Ah, yes, the Chase.  I'm feeling too lazy today to look it up, so does anyone know where the finals are this year?  And am I the only one who dreads getting packed in like sardines if it's at Naz, Fisher, or UR?

Some important games will be played between participants before the seedings come out... RIT v. UR for one. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on December 20, 2005, 03:05:31 PM
I listened to yhe game










I listened to the fisher game via Macons stream . The game was being broadcasted by Macon. What happened was Macon's shot clock was running out and they were forced to shoot with seconds left. Fisher got the rebound and went down court and scored. The shot clock horn went off andthe ref waves off the Fisher score and had a meeting and called it a jumpball. Fisher called a time out and for some reason got the tech.
The ref's put 1.9 seconds on the clock and macon got the ball back because of the arrow. They also got 4 shots from the line plus the ball back. Even the anouncers from macon couldn't beleave the call.They thougt Fisher got a bad deal.








Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 20, 2005, 03:40:11 PM
Thanks, Ricco. However, I was referring to the sequence at the end of the 2nd half that led to Kornaker's technical. But you're right, it sounded like the refs butchered the end of the 1st half, as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: 78rmc on December 20, 2005, 04:31:44 PM
Ricco1, you're combining two separate events.  What you described happened at the end of the first half.  The tech was at the end of the game.  What happened at the end of the first half was an air ball by RMC as the shot clock sounded and there was an inadvertant whistle by the refs.  Most of the players stopped with the Fisher guy with the ball continue play running the court for a layup.  Jump ball with arrow to RMC.  But it was another blown call by refs as was the tech at the end of the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on December 20, 2005, 04:50:56 PM
78rmc, Thank you for correcting me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 21, 2005, 08:15:46 AM
Fisher lost to a good team.
Let's move on.
I am really tired of hearing how the refs screwed someone!
Play well enough to keep the game out of the officicals hands!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on December 21, 2005, 12:25:37 PM
Any predictions on who will win the Chase tourny? Who will be in the finals? Any possible upsets or suprises?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 21, 2005, 01:42:46 PM
A rochester area college. ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 21, 2005, 03:04:31 PM
Quote from: the bird man on December 21, 2005, 12:25:37 PM
Any predictions on who will win the Chase tourny? Who will be in the finals? Any possible upsets or suprises?

Always have to be aware of Roberts Wesleyan, they tend to be the wild card in that tournament. You really never know what you're gonna get with them. I'd say it shakes out like this:

Favorites
Fisher- Bennett should be in game shape and back in the starting lineup by then for the defending champs.

Rochester- I think these guys are dying for a shot at Fisher after spending all of last year in the Cards' shadow despite making it to the National Championship game.

Darkhorse
Brockport- May have as many as three new players on their team by then, and they're all good ones. Their high-pressure style may give some teams a hard time.

Puncher's Chance
RIT- Can be very tough some nights. Had the benefit of playing last year's semis at home against UR. I'm pretty sure they won't have any home games at Clark Gym in this year's tournament. Still, a well-coached team that has played tough teams early on and will be ready for the squads in this tournament.

Long Shot
Roberts Wesleyan- Probably have the best player in the tournament in former McQuaid star Alfonzo Evans. They're a pretty good bet to upset somebody in this tournament. Is this the year they can put three wins together? I doubt it, but there's always a possibility.

Better, But Not This Year
Naz- Will be a major player in the Chase in the next year or two...not this year, though.

Keuka- Good early-season record. Too bad they haven't beaten anyone that great.

We Have Some Lovely Parting Gifts Backstage
Geneseo- Book your tickets to see them in the 7th place game.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 21, 2005, 03:14:19 PM
Something funny for all of the board except for RTH and Hawk Backer, who I think are the same person...

In the Dec. 21 edition of The (Oneonta) Daily Star, it said that Hartwick's 5-3 start is its best since 1995!

That's pretty sad. Also, I would like to know the last time Hartwick had a winning conference record.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hawk Backer on December 21, 2005, 04:04:05 PM
When have I said anything about Hartwick College in my life? 

I could not even tell you their best player.

I'm an Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference fan, and in case you aren't aware, there is a team in the AMCC with the same nickname as Hartwick.

Go figure.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 21, 2005, 04:12:39 PM
Budcrew, I think HawkBacker is a Hilbert fan. He and RTH are definitely two different people.

That said, Hartwick is still a pretty sad squad. For 5-3 to be the best start since 1995 gives you an indication of how horrendous they've been of late. Speaking of the Boys of Hawkville, they are in Vegas tonight and tomorrow for a tournament with Benedict, Defiance and Hood.

I wonder if RTH is there on the strip giving all the passers-by flyers about Hartwick. People would grab them expecting to see an advertisement for a strip club but, instead, they'd get to read about the top ten similarities between Hartwick Men's Basketball and the Roman Empire. That would be priceless to see.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 21, 2005, 08:04:49 PM
Hartwick loses their 1st round game in the Desert Classic to Benedictine(Ill.) by the score of 59-55. Hartwick(5-4) was led by Brown and Cocoziello who both scored 15. Benedictine improves to 5-3.

Hartwick will play the loser of the Defiance/Hood game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 22, 2005, 11:11:09 AM
Are the matchups ready for the chase?
If so what are they?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 22, 2005, 11:16:41 AM
Not quite.  They come out the weekend before the tourney starts.  I don't even know the venues this year.

GB15 -- that list looks pretty reasonable.  Some early January games are the only thing that would change it. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 22, 2005, 05:12:48 PM
Hartwick defeats Hood, 69-64. The Hawks(6-4) win the consolation game of the D3 Desert Classic in Las Vegas, NV. Hartwick returns to action on January 4th where they begin the Varsity potion of their schedule, hosting Cortland State, a team who has yet to be defeated by an E8 opponent. That drubbing should prepare them for what awaits that weekend when Fisher and Alfred pay the Hawks a visit during opening weekend of E8 play.

Alright, Hartwick has 6 wins right now. Over/Under on their win total is 8.5. What do people think, can Hartwick get to 9 wins?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on December 22, 2005, 05:59:25 PM
I will take the over on that but not by much.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 23, 2005, 07:52:48 AM
Why all the wick talk?
I mean really!
We are talking about a very ho hum team!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 23, 2005, 11:54:13 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on December 22, 2005, 05:12:48 PM
Hartwick defeats Hood, 69-64. The Hawks(6-4) win the consolation game of the D3 Desert Classic in Las Vegas, NV. Hartwick returns to action on January 4th where they begin the Varsity potion of their schedule, hosting Cortland State, a team who has yet to be defeated by an E8 opponent. That drubbing should prepare them for what awaits that weekend when Fisher and Alfred pay the Hawks a visit during opening weekend of E8 play.

Alright, Hartwick has 6 wins right now. Over/Under on their win total is 8.5. What do people think, can Hartwick get to 9 wins?


Here's where Hartwick's season goes down the *******:
Jan. 4 Cortland
Jan. 6 Alfred
Jan. 7 Fisher
Jan. 13 UC
Jan. 20 IC
Jan. 21 Elmira
Jan. 27 UR
Jan. 28 Nazareth
Feb. 3 Fisher
Feb. 4 Alfred

I could see them losing 9 of 10 in this list, and if Elmira can pull off the upset, they could lose all 10.

they would go from 6-4 to possible 7-13 or 7-14, very easily and quickly.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 23, 2005, 10:47:21 PM
Too much talk about Hartwick. 
My opinion is they get 13 wins this year.
But the boys from Utica get 19!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go boys go!

have a great xmas everybody
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 24, 2005, 11:19:58 AM
Quote from: clearconceit on December 23, 2005, 10:47:21 PM
Too much talk about Hartwick. 
My opinion is they get 13 wins this year.
But the boys from Utica get 19!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go boys go!

have a great xmas everybody

13? How do you figure that, clear?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 24, 2005, 08:51:50 PM
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all the E8 posters, including RTH. I hope everyone has a good one. Should be a fun next two months.

Take care.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 27, 2005, 10:00:18 AM
So let's get some chat goin about the Chase.
How is UR this year?
They tired of being an afterthought in Roch?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 27, 2005, 08:16:19 PM
I haven't seen UR play, but you can rest assured that they are a good squad.  They have 2 losses on the year, by one point to 8-1 Wittenburg (#3 in the d3hoops top 25) and by two to undefeated Carnegie Mellon (#23).

They still have Onyurika, who might be the biggest post player in the tourney, and Mike Goia is back after missing last year with a broken hand (I think).  They are solid.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 27, 2005, 10:04:47 PM
I have to agree with Bamm. UR is always tough and this year is no different. The loss of Hauben obviously hurts, but Onyiruka is a stud and Neer always gets the most out of his club. The role players are what make that team go.

If Rother had played a full season up until now, I'd say he's right on par with Onyiruka. I saw him go toe-to-toe with former E8 POY Ty Schultz when Ty was a senior and Rother was a freshman or a soph. Rother is very athletic, tenacious in the post and finishes well around the hoop. I think he should be back by the Chase so we may see them go head-to-head in the tourney.

In other Chase-related news, to give you an idea about how all over the spectrum Roberts Wesleyan is, consider this: The other night, Brockport started the game on a 21-0 run(yes, you read that correctly). However, Roberts came back and actually TOOK THE LEAD in the first half. They still lost by 13 points, but that should give you some idea of how awful they can look at times, and how dangerous they are when they're on.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 27, 2005, 10:17:47 PM
Also, since Fisher has only eight home games this year (seven of which are conference games), don't be surprised if you see some Chase games at their gym. Only Hobart would play at Fisher this year. I'd like to see some of the stronger teams in the region step-up and at least play some home-and-home's with Cards. I don't think 'Port and UR really want to play at Fisher, which is a shame.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 28, 2005, 07:19:29 AM
Would you want to play in that high school gym?
I mean really- I am an alum and avid fan but the "varsity gym" is a joke.
Cozy- my ass it is a pit and should have been one of the first priorities instead of building another dorm.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on December 28, 2005, 10:44:36 AM
Go bombers i usally agree with most of your posts but not your last post. Brockport goes on the road year after year and plays the BEST competition. They are going to play #10 york at york, they are going down to DC to play in #25 catholics tourney. In the last few years they have played the best on the road, at william patterson, at calvin, at NYU all of which were nationally ranked. They have played fisher for at least the last 5 years. This year fisher was scheduled to play at Bport but for some reason fishers athletic department called before the season and said they would not be able to play that game. Whitmore has never got a return home game with any of those schools i mentioed but he continues to schedule the BEST.  Whitmore realizes you tourney ready by playing the best not by playing cazenovia,keuka, medaille.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 28, 2005, 11:07:22 AM
wow bports,
Calm down!
Sheesh- it will all shake itself out at the chase!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on December 28, 2005, 11:10:17 AM
Brockport also only has 8 home games this year and 18 away from home. Brockport also played otterbein in ohio a few years ago after otterbein won a natl title. Also bport and fisher have played every year since 1998 until this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 28, 2005, 12:37:51 PM
bports,

First of all, the tournaments don't help you if you lose every game.  You have to have a solid squad to start with.  Sometimes Brockport does, other times they don't. 

This argument gets thrown around by division one talking heads all the time.  Scheduling elite teams outside of league play helps them because of the at-large bids in their tournament and the factor that SOS plays into that. 

Brockport somehow got an at-large bid in 2004, despite losing every tough out-of-league game they scheduled (Otterbein, St. Thomas, Rochester).  The committee probably realized their mistake when Brockport got crushed by 28 against Williams in the NCAA's.  Tourney tested, huh?

By the way, that season St. Thomas was 11-15.  Brockport also played Clark (11-12) and Massachusett's College (1-22) that season.  They managed to win those two games.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 28, 2005, 01:13:11 PM
Waah waah.
God -pick yourself up bports.
There is no crying in posting!
Gimme a break!
:'(
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on December 28, 2005, 02:20:40 PM
First off, a new gym is nice but we need the new dorm.  Second off I can't blame teams for not wanting to come play at fisher.  It is a small gym and a very loud gym, also students being on the court cant help with teams wanting to come.  Brockport stop whining, you haven't heard Fisher Fans complaing about not playing at home much
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 28, 2005, 02:31:17 PM
Superman,
I'm glad that you enjoy the games as much as I did, but honestly take a step back and think-my alma mater really does need a new facility.  Oh, and btw- since I was there you have added 3 dorms.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 28, 2005, 02:38:54 PM
Whether or not a new gym gets built at Fisher has got to be a revenue driven decision.  Will a new basketball facility bring in a lot more money for the school than it takes to build it?  Probably not.  Certainly not as much as the dorm that gives them a ton of extra housing for students at 25 thousand a year (tuition + board).  And not as much as that new football facility that brings in the Buffalo Bills every summer and has attracted enough talent that the football team is decent again.

Now, if some rich alumnus wanted to donate some money...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 28, 2005, 03:06:56 PM
I'm writing the check right now.
We will of course have to name the new gym after me-
the fisheralum91 pavillion

ooo that does sound nice

Well after diggin in the pockets it seems we may have to wait for that gym!
;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on December 28, 2005, 04:40:51 PM
I did not mean to come in here and start any fights i was responding to a statement by go bombers that was far from the truth. He said bport didnt want to play fisher at fisher, when the truth is they have played fisher every year since at least 1998. Like i said they were scheduled to meet  this year and fisher called it off just before the season. Both fisher and bport have had there share of really good teams in the recent past, and i would never put there program down. As for bport losing all those out of conf games wrong the beat william patterson, nyu, div2 lemoyne etc etc. As for 2004 losing by 28 at #1 williams in the ncaa tourney williams was a GREAT team. Remember they also beat a very good trinity team in the 2nd round of the ncaa tourney and finished the season 15-1 in sunyacs that season so i refuse to apologize as to why they were in the tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 28, 2005, 08:15:35 PM
Bports, be easy my man. I didn't mean any disrespect to your school or basketball program. I was just mentioning the fact that non-E8 Rochester teams (UR, Port) probably didn't want to play in Fisher's little gym. I said nothing about them ducking quality teams or the strength of their schedule otherwise. I know B'port usually takes on all comers and in no place did I mention that they avoid quality teams.

Hope this clears up any misunderstanding.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 28, 2005, 09:05:34 PM
Second time you mentioned NYU. When was NYU ranked?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on December 29, 2005, 08:36:18 AM
gobombers sorry about the misunderstanding, i enjoy reading you posts. Good luck on the season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 29, 2005, 09:16:12 AM
Well there ya see we can get along! :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 29, 2005, 01:43:29 PM
Three games for E8 teams today at various locations and tournaments around the country:

Elmira vs Linfield

Luckily for Elmira, Linfield(1-7) isn't 1/100th as good at basketball as they are at football. At least Elmira was able to get out of CNY for the holidays and are enjoying the sunshine in Phoenix.

Nazareth at Otterbein

The Golden Flyers should be well-rested after a long layoff. This game is the 1st round of the Otterbein tournament. Otterbein is 3-6. If Naz wins, they'll likely play Ohio Wesleyan(6-3) in the final. If not, Thomas More(0-10) will likely be the opponent in the consolation game.

Alfred vs Denison

This is the first round game of the Case Western tournament. The Saxons men's hoops team follows the lead of their football team and heads to Cleveland Heights. Denison is just 2-8 and Alfred should be able to take them. A win likely means a date with a strong Case Western team. Case is in the same conference as UR.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 29, 2005, 02:43:24 PM
Those look like duds!
At least the weather will be warmer for elmira!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on December 29, 2005, 07:41:38 PM
 A new gym would be nice if it brings in additional revenue or not. A new facility could really help in a lot of ways, like recruiting. The gym would be great for the fans as well. Lets face it, not the best place to watch a game.
Students on the floor is something that may not be attractive for other teams, but I think it is also one of the reasons that fisher has such an avid fan base, and what makes it such a tough place to play.
I will say this, I would rather play in a gym like Fisher's, which always seems full and loud, than in a gym like Cortland's or some other state schools where even when they have a big crowd the place looks pretty empty.

Can't wait for the 2nd half of the season to start, and the Chase...Go Cards!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 29, 2005, 09:29:14 PM
Not a banner night for the middle of the pack E8 squads as Alfred and Naz both go down in out-of-state tourneys.  Elmira also lost.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 29, 2005, 09:56:48 PM
I really think our league is very weak.  I see it as a 2 horse race between us and SJF.  That's why I think Hartwick can win some games - everybody else is just like them.... not very good.

Go Utica!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 29, 2005, 10:56:48 PM
Clear, it's definitely a weak league relative to the rest of the nation. That said, it's always been a weak league and Hartwick still only has one victory over the last two years. I'm conceding that they may be better than last year; I've said that since the beginning of the season. But where does that put them, honestly? One win? Maybe two? Besides Elmira, I think they'd be lucky to win one game against another conference team. But enough about the bottom of the conference.

I like Utica, but I think it's a stretch for us to say Utica is in Fisher's class right now. For Utica fans to make an "it's only us and Fisher" comment is more than a bit premature. I'm pretty sure RIT doesn't feel that way. I don't think Ithaca is going to run and hide from the Pioneers. Alfred will be confident they can beat Utica. I don't think Utica is going to blitz this conference, by any means.

Like I said, Utica is a good team but I'm definitely firmly entrenched in a "show me" mode with them. Until they prove they can be a consistent club on the road, I don't think they can be talking about winning the regular season conference title.

Good luck to all the E8 teams this week.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 30, 2005, 12:11:50 AM
CMon man, we are better than you think.  I feel like you are treating us like we are Hartwick or Elmira.  But hey this is why we play the games.  I feel very confident that this is our year.  We have the best player and the best coach.  Hey I am a fan!!!!!
Go Pioneers.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 30, 2005, 10:16:34 AM
Quote from: clearconceit on December 30, 2005, 12:11:50 AM
CMon man, we are better than you think. I feel like you are treating us like we are Hartwick or Elmira. But hey this is why we play the games. I feel very confident that this is our year. We have the best player and the best coach. Hey I am a fan!!!!!
Go Pioneers.

Clear, I absolutely believe Utica is a very good team and will be towards the top of the conference the entire season. I would never be foolish enough to put Utica on the same level as an Elmira or Hartwick. In my revised predictions, I think I had Utica finishing 2nd in the conference and going 10-4 in the league. I don't think that infers that I think Utica is not a very good team. With a larger NCAA tournament, that could put the Pioneers over the top, provided they still make a good showing in the E8 tourney.

What I am saying, though, is I need it proven to me that Utica can play more consistently on the road. I know you're a fan, but even you must admit that Utica's play away from their home gym has left much to be desired; a couple other Utica fans have even expressed such a sentiment. RIT just seems to have their number in Clark Gym. Fisher has everyone's number in Varsity Gym.

Also, being an Ithaca fan, Utica has looked terrible in their last four trips to The Bulb. The Pioneers have scored 39, 41, 40, and 53 points and were 0-4 in their last four trips to the South Hill. Since I don't have the time/energy/desire to go watch them play at home, I only have the opportunity to see them when they're at Ithaca or are playing against one of the Rochester teams, squads they've certainly struggled against in the past.

Cichon is definitely in the mix as one of the top players in the league and I think Utica has a pretty good coach. But, unfortunately, I don't see Fisher losing more than one or two games in the conference season. For Utica to overtake them, the Pioneers are going to have to be perfect at home(like Fisher surely will be) and develop some consistency on the road.

Only one week until the start of E8 play and, subsequently, Fisher @ Utica on opening night.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 30, 2005, 10:28:36 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on December 30, 2005, 10:16:34 AM
Quote from: clearconceit on December 30, 2005, 12:11:50 AM
CMon man, we are better than you think. I feel like you are treating us like we are Hartwick or Elmira. But hey this is why we play the games. I feel very confident that this is our year. We have the best player and the best coach. Hey I am a fan!!!!!
Go Pioneers.

Clear, I absolutely believe Utica is a very good team and will be towards the top of the conference the entire season. I would never be foolish enough to put Utica on the same level as an Elmira or Hartwick. In my revised predictions, I think I had Utica finishing 2nd in the conference and going 10-4 in the league. I don't think that infers that I think Utica is not a very good team. With a larger NCAA tournament, that could put the Pioneers over the top, provided they still make a good showing in the E8 tourney.

What I am saying, though, is I need it proven to me that Utica can play more consistently on the road. I know you're a fan, but even you must admit that Utica's play away from their home gym has left much to be desired; a couple other Utica fans have even expressed such a sentiment. RIT just seems to have their number in Clark Gym. Fisher has everyone's number in Varsity Gym.

Also, being an Ithaca fan, Utica has looked terrible in their last four trips to The Bulb. The Pioneers have scored 39, 41, 40, and 53 points and were 0-4 in their last four trips to the South Hill. Since I don't have the time/energy/desire to go watch them play at home, I only have the opportunity to see them when they're at Ithaca or are playing against one of the Rochester teams, squads they've certainly struggled against in the past.

Cichon is definitely in the mix as one of the top players in the league and I think Utica has a pretty good coach. But, unfortunately, I don't see Fisher losing more than one or two games in the conference season. For Utica to overtake them, the Pioneers are going to have to be perfect at home(like Fisher surely will be) and develop some consistency on the road.

Only one week until the start of E8 play and, subsequently, Fisher @ Utica on opening night.

Look at the BOLD...

The Utica College gym is in the Harold T. Clark Athletic Center. Does RIT play in a Clark center too?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on December 30, 2005, 10:49:58 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 31, 2005, 12:17:50 PM
E8 scores from holiday tournaments:

Elmira defeats Washington and Jefferson, 84-78. The Soaring Eagles go 1-2 in their trip to Phoenix.

Naz defeats winless Thomas More in OT, 89-83. Joe Canori scores 34 and Ryan MacAdam pours in 28 to lead the Golden Flyers to a 3rd place finish in the Otterbein Tourney.

Alfred falls in the consolation game of the Case Western tourney, 91-86, to the hosts. Dillon Stein scores 21, Quentin Bryant chips in 20. Alfred had four players in double digits.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on December 31, 2005, 01:59:05 PM
After 1 1/2 seasons of Empire8 posting excellence as Respect_The_Hawks, I am changing my posting name to Mad Hawk. This change is effective immediately.

I am here to educate and entertain this board on Empire 8 and Hartwick basketball.

While Hartwick Basketball has struggled the past several seasons this seasons marks the beginning of a revolution and dynasty for the Hawks.

No one, I mean no one respects the Hawks outside the Hartwick community. Maybe teams will have to learn scouting reports and coaches will have to coach (that will be strange phenomenon for many teams). NO MORE GIVE AWAY GAMES!

Finally I am not here to make friends, but rather push a message and do some unofficial guerrilla marketing for Hawk Basketball.

As for the 2006 E8 upcoming season, BRING IT ON
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 01, 2006, 09:50:58 AM
Get a grip pal.  Your team will be a little better, but the last tiime I checked you are 1-27 in league play the last 2 years.  Please tone it down. I mean Oneonta HS would have beaten you guys the last 2 years.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on January 01, 2006, 10:36:43 AM
Mad Hawk, Try to remember these to dates Jan6 and Jan.7. Lets see what your team can do.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 01, 2006, 10:42:01 AM
Booya, clearconceit! Thanks for your for post!

1. Thank you for coming to the Holiday Inn Tournament in December

2. I hate to burst your fragile bubble but the Hawks are lot better then what you witnessed on Sunday, December 11th against Fitchburg State. You witnessed one of the worst games of this season. Keep in mind that the game was the fourth game of the week for the Hawks (Vassar on Tuesday, Bard on Thursday, Oneonta thriller on Saturday). I bet you didn't realize that! Any serious fan would have!

3. You can say what you want about how bad Hartwick, however, the jury is still out whether or not Utica is for real or not! I guess time will tell!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 01, 2006, 11:36:58 AM
Quote from: ricco1 on January 01, 2006, 10:36:43 AM
Mad Hawk, Try to remember these to dates Jan6 and Jan.7. Lets see what your team can do.

Booya, ricco1!

According to my handy pocket calendar:

January 6th: Alfred@Hartwick, 8pm
January 8th: Fisher@Hartwick, 4pm

I am looking forward to next weekend, the hawks are underdogs. However, the ironic thing here is these two games are winable games. A 1-1, let alone 2-0,  weekend would send a message to other E8 teams and allow me to have a field day on this board!

BRING IT ON
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 01, 2006, 11:54:08 AM
Hartwick will lose both of those games by a combined 40 points.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 01, 2006, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 01, 2006, 11:54:08 AM
Hartwick will lose both of those games by a combined 40 points.

Boo yah, Bamm, Boo yah!!

Mad Hawk, what are you trying to prove to us other than you enjoy quoting both Stuart Scott and a movie about rival cheerleading groups? I appreciate the fact you've turned into a satire of yourself, but if you expect us to take you seriously, you have to stop saying things like the game against Fisher is "winnable" for Hartwick.

You should consider it a huge moral victory if Hartwick loses either of those games by less than 10 points. Hartwick has Cortland at home Tuesday night so there's another loss. I hope you enjoy your 0-3 week. No excuses now, buddy.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 01, 2006, 04:19:20 PM
Booyah, GoBombers15, Booyah! Happy New Year

Let me remind you that your pride and joy, the Ithaca Bombers, are 2-5 heading into the E8 season. Hartwick is 6-4, that is right 6 and 4! A win is a win, I don't care whether or not it is against a good team or a bad team.

Looking ahead to this weekend. Alfred and Fisher will not doubt be tough games for the Hawks, however, by no means will it be a cake walk for either Alfred or Fisher. I can assure you that the Hawks will be ready for battle this weekend and they just may pull out a win (God forbid)! Aside from talent, which I think is fairly even, the two games will come down to who wants to play harder and walk out of a Binder Gym a winner. I will concede however that both Alfred and Fisher have the edge on personnel experience. Time will tell!

GoBombers, I would suggest that you mentally prepare yourself that someday the Hartwick Hawks will be a factor again in the Empire 8. It may or may not be this season, but it is on the horizon. The Hawks have 14 conference games to make a statement this season. Believe me you will be surprised at the end of the season. The Hawks have nearly tripled there winning percentage this season and will no doubt chalk up some conference wins.

You can be naive and write off the Hawks all you want, but that will bite you in the butt. Remember, I never said the Hawks will win the conference this season.

Happy New Year! I wish you the best in 2006! May Ithaca and Hartwick have a successful conference season!


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 01, 2006, 04:20:54 PM
Quote from: Mad Hawk on January 01, 2006, 04:19:20 PM
A win is a win, I don't care whether or not it is against a good team or a bad team.

Thankfully, most people do. :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Coach C on January 01, 2006, 04:27:41 PM
Mad Hawk -

Thanks goodness the rest of us give a darn.

C

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 01, 2006, 10:46:27 PM
Quote from: Mad Hawk on January 01, 2006, 04:19:20 PM
Booyah, GoBombers15, Booyah! Happy New Year

Let me remind you that your pride and joy, the Ithaca Bombers, are 2-5 heading into the E8 season. Hartwick is 6-4, that is right 6 and 4! A win is a win, I don't care whether or not it is against a good team or a bad team.

Looking ahead to this weekend. Alfred and Fisher will not doubt be tough games for the Hawks, however, by no means will it be a cake walk for either Alfred or Fisher. I can assure you that the Hawks will be ready for battle this weekend and they just may pull out a win (God forbid)! Aside from talent, which I think is fairly even, the two games will come down to who wants to play harder and walk out of a Binder Gym a winner. I will concede however that both Alfred and Fisher have the edge on personnel experience. Time will tell!

GoBombers, I would suggest that you mentally prepare yourself that someday the Hartwick Hawks will be a factor again in the Empire 8. It may or may not be this season, but it is on the horizon. The Hawks have 14 conference games to make a statement this season. Believe me you will be surprised at the end of the season. The Hawks have nearly tripled there winning percentage this season and will no doubt chalk up some conference wins.

You can be naive and write off the Hawks all you want, but that will bite you in the butt. Remember, I never said the Hawks will win the conference this season.

Happy New Year! I wish you the best in 2006! May Ithaca and Hartwick have a successful conference season!


1)See, now your stupidity has prompted El Guru and other long-time posters to come in here and point out how stupid some of the things you say are.

2)I'm fine with Ithaca's 2-5 record. With the exception of the stinker they turned in against Hobart, they really don't have a "bad loss"(for what it's worth) on the season.

3)Playing against those quality teams and losing will be more beneficial for Ithaca than if they played the schedule Hartwick did. Ithaca's season comes down to being able to beat Fisher(and another opponent) in the E8 tourney. They might as well get used to playing teams that are as good as Fisher(H-SC, Roanoke, Mansfield, etc) and get used to that level of play than play the weak sisters of D3 like Hartwick has.

4)Hartwick is as talented as Fisher? Right, um, yeah, definitely. I'm sure the whole board agrees with you on that one.

5) Happy New Year to you, too.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to celebrate Hartwick's 0-3 week in its entirety as I am heading back to New Orleans on Tuesday. I will post some verbal slams towards Mad Hawk on Wednesday or Thursday from some motel room in Tennessee or Mississippi. However, we'll have to wait a couple weeks until my apartment has electricity and internet before we can fully delve into the causes of Hartwick's 0-for-the-conference-season start. Take care, everyone.

Go Bombers.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 01, 2006, 11:25:01 PM
I can't wait until we play Hartwick.  We will kill you guys.  Booyahhhhhhh.
I hope they do win this weekend because if they do, I know Utica is going to run away with the title.

Unless Hartwick played really really reall really (add a BOOOOOYAHHHHHH) bad when I saw them, they are not ready for the big boys.

Go Pioneers!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2006, 12:09:45 PM
First,
GB15 I hope you had a safe flight.
Second,
Hawk man I really need a little more comedy- you used to be marginally funny.
Thrid,
Clear C- did I get it right UC will run through the E8?  A little overconfident I think.  The local paper doesn't give them props!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 02, 2006, 12:43:07 PM
Thanks, I'm leaving tomorrow and driving to Tennessee(prob Knoxville) then onto Mississippi on Wednesday. Should probably get back to NoLa on Thursday. Once I'm back in class on Monday, I'll be posting again.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2006, 12:44:37 PM
Long drive! :P
We'll need you on here to keep us sane!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 02, 2006, 03:32:51 PM
Long drive GB15, It's a 1000 miles to Memphis alone.
Heading thru Knoxville? Are you heading down the East coast and then across TN?
Then again that may be the smart move, I would want nothing to do with I-71 thru Ohio either :)

Good luck with the drive.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 02, 2006, 06:26:05 PM
TF2, long drive indeed. I'm leaving from the woman's house here in Bethlehem, PA(45 mins north of Philly) or else I would have taken the Ohio route. When I went down in August I did the Rochester/Cleveland/Columbus/Cincy/Louisville/Nashville/Memphis/Jackson/New Orleans route.

This time, being more eastern, I have to head down through Harrisburg, to Maryland, all the way through VA then on to Knoxvegas. Next day should be through the rest of eastern Tennessee and through all of Alabama, onto Mississippi where we'll stop. Then to New Orleans.

Some non-conference E8 games over the next few days:

Jan 3-
RIT at UR

Utica at Clarkson

Jan 4-
Cazenovia at Fisher

Cortland at Hartwick

This weekend's conference games:

Friday
Nazareth at Elmira
RIT at Ithaca
Alfred at Hartwick
Fisher at Utica

Saturday
RIT at Elmira
Nazareth at Ithaca
Fisher at Hartwick
Alfred at Utica

Game of the Weekend: Fisher at Utica, Friday, 8pm

Intriguing weekend because I could see Ithaca going 2-0 or 0-2, which probably means they'll go 1-1. If they could go 2-0 against Naz/RIT, they'd be in great shape--even though it's early--to make the E8 tourney.

Also, as much as it may upset the Utica fans, I could see them being 0-2 at weekend's end, as well. It probably won't happen because Utica is such a good home team and Alfred isn't too hot on the road, but Alfred is an experienced team that now has their full team healthy and intact. I also see Utica at 1-1 after Saturday, though 2-0 is a possibility however slim it is.

Good luck to all the E8 teams, this is where the fun starts...

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 02, 2006, 09:00:24 PM
Yep, now the real season begins.  The most interesting mid-week game should be the annual RIT/UR matchup, tomorrow night.  They split last season -- UR won convincingly at home (one of RIT's 9 losses on the season, 4 others coming to Fisher) in the regularly scheduled game, and RIT won in equally impressive fashion in front of the home crowd in the Chase.  Both teams have lost a number of players -- four starters in RIT's case. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 02, 2006, 10:01:17 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 02, 2006, 09:00:24 PM
Yep, now the real season begins.  The most interesting mid-week game should be the annual RIT/UR matchup, tomorrow night. 

What about Hartwick v. Cortland? That could be the matchup of the SUNYAC and E8 conference champions...






...in 2056
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 03, 2006, 02:09:52 AM
Whoo, okay, January is upon us and so is conference season and I'm back and focused for the 14-game posting schedule, followed by the conference tourney and the NCAAs.  It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Two midweek non-league tilts tomorrow: Utica names its own final score against Clarkson and UR sadly proves too much for RIT.  Then the big game on Wednesday when Cortland beats Hartwick by 25 or so.

Mad About the Respect the Hawks or whatever you're calling yourself these days: in the words of the great William Shakespeare, "a Hartwick by any other name would still suck as bad."

All joking aside, scores would seem to indicate the Hawks have improved from the last year or two, but given how bad they've been, how could they not at least get a little better?  I'd say 2 to 3 league wins isnt out of the question.  Unfavorable schedule though, opening with five home games during winter break in front of next to nobody at Binder Gym leaves 'Wick on the road most of the rest of the way.

Safe travels, GB15, find yourself a TV somewhere for Sunday afternoon for the G-MEN playoff game (damn it feels good to type that after three long years.)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 03, 2006, 09:51:44 AM
Release the hounds!
Now we can finally have something substatnial to talk about!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 03, 2006, 10:30:01 AM
Here's the projected starting lineups for tonight's RIT/UR matchup.  I'd list the ppg, but at this point it's pretty meaningless considering the Tigers play about 15 guys a game before Christmas.  ( RIT has 10 guys averaging between 5.2 and 2.5 ppg, and only three guys averaging more than that, including leading scorer Barret Zeinfeld, who doesn't start).















URRIT
Jeff Juron6'1"SoTyler Springer5'11"Sr
Joe Canty6'4"SrDrew Martin6'4"Sr
Mike Goia6'4"SrRob Hampton6'2"Jr
Uche Ndubizu6'6"SoFran Snyder6'4"Sr
Jon Onyiriuka6'7"SoTim Bacon6'6"Jr
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 03, 2006, 11:53:19 AM
Interesting Analysis

Booyah Folks! The following is a list of all the starting players of the Empire8. These starters are based on the box score of everyone's previous game. Experience is everything in college athletics and this analysis supports the statement. While Hartwick has the fewest experience this year, they are positioned well for the future. Fielding Juniors and Seniors is huge advantage when playing against sophmores and freshmen.

The Bench Analysis, will come out tomorrow!

Alfred
Hallett, Ryan      (SR)
Todd Dersham    (SR)
Dillon Stein    (JR)
Chris LeMasters (SR)
Ryan Clemenson  (JR)


Elmira
Nick Molak      (SO)
James Brown     (SR)
Joe Prunier     (JR)
Micah Owens     (SR)
Matt Keating    (JR)

Fisher
Raymie Auman    (SR)
Justin Beigel   (SO)
Sean O'Brien    (SR)
Mike McGee      (SR)
Dan McSweeney   (JR)

Hartwick
RYAN, Kevin        (FR)
LANFEAR, Alex      (JR)
COCOZZIELLO, Jan   (FR)
DUNNIGAN, Pat      (JR)
BROWN, Anthony     (FR)

Ithaca
Jim BELLIS      (SR)
Brian ANDRUSKIEWICZ    (SR)
Jonathan WHETSTONE   (SR)
Sean BURTON            (FR)
Brian JOE              (SO)

Nazareth
Joe Canori      (SO)
Caswell Smith      (SR)
Kyle Nelson      (SO)
Ryan McAdam      (SO)
Tyler Smith      (SO)

RIT
Tyler Springer      (SR)
Drew Martin      (SR)
Rob Hampton      (JR)
Fran Snyder      (SR)
Tim Bacon      (JR)


Utica
Ray Bryant      (JR)
Doug Herring      (FR)
Jack Lighthall      (JR)
Shawn Brown      (SR)
Justin Cichon      (SR)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 03, 2006, 12:06:22 PM
My guess is that you can probably pencil Nick Bennett into the starting lineup for SJF.
I'm assuming Beigel would be the one coming off the bench now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on January 03, 2006, 01:28:53 PM
And Quintin Bryant for Alfred...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 03, 2006, 09:13:52 PM
611 miles later, here's just a sampling of some of the things running through GB15's head during his travels today:

-In order, what are the top ten Billy Joel songs of all-time?

-Considering all his hits, why isn't Bob Seger considered one of the better musicians in history?

-Could we send a package deal of West Virginia, cash and future considerations to Mexico for Tijuana?

-Wouldn't it be a good idea for the girl making my sub at Quizno's to learn a small bit of English? I'm not even asking for fluency here, just words like "lettuce" and "no mushrooms."

-Would I be more disappointed if my son was a toll-booth attendant or "that guy" from Real World/Road Rules that still does things like "The Gauntlet" or "Inferno" six years after his specific reality show ended?

-Was Chris Rix an even worse sideline reporter(Cotton Bowl) than Jill Arrington?

-Wow, I had four more teeth than all three of those ladies combined at that gas station in Bristol, Tennessee.
_______________________________________________________

Anyways, I'm glad to see Mad Hawk is finally seeing the light. You finally realize what I have been saying all along: Hartwick may have some decent players, but the E8 has so many teams with good, veteran players that it will be hard for Hartwick to compete. It's tough to win when you're throwing 18 and 19 year-olds against teams where all their players are between 21 and 23. When you're 22, you're a lot stronger/faster/experienced than you were when you were an 18 year-old freshman. With the exception of Naz, every E8 team starts AT LEAST three upperclassmen. We'll see how it plays out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 03, 2006, 09:14:20 PM
Utica beats Clarkson, 78-52. No surprise there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 03, 2006, 10:44:04 PM
UR - 87
RIT - 45

There's not much to break down.  RIT must have shot about 3% for the game. 

I'm pretty sure they didn't enter the paint more than 5 times in the first half.  I would have a guess on the second half, but I couldn't bare to watch anymore and left.

Jon Onyurika is very big and very good.  If he doesn't average a double-double this year I'll eat one of my shoes.  Their guards hit every open shot.  RIT didn't hit a single open shot. 

A lot of Fisher players were at the game, and I'm sure they know they have their work cut out for them in Chase.  The best basketball team in Rochester doesn't play on the East Side.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 04, 2006, 09:53:20 AM
Onyurika only had 12 and 9, but thats not bad for only playing 22 minutes. The guy off the bench who looks like Grizzley Adams had 15 for UR.

Although they don't have the same level of talent as the last couple of years, UR is still one of the best, if not the best team in the area. I'd really like to see a matchup of SJF and UR to see how things would go.

Neer may also be the best coach in the area. His team, regardless of talent, always plays hard and executes well. They may end up getting the #1 seed in the Chase, but right now, I would say if there isn't a UR vs. SJF Chase final, it would be a disappointment.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 04, 2006, 10:21:59 AM
Looks like the battle of Roch may tell the events of things to come!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 04, 2006, 12:46:37 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 03, 2006, 09:13:52 PM
611 miles later, here's just a sampling of some of the things running through GB15's head during his travels today:

-In order, what are the top ten Billy Joel songs of all-time?

-Considering all his hits, why isn't Bob Seger considered one of the better musicians in history?

-Could we send a package deal of West Virginia, cash and future considerations to Mexico for Tijuana?

-Wouldn't it be a good idea for the girl making my sub at Quizno's to learn a small bit of English? I'm not even asking for fluency here, just words like "lettuce" and "no mushrooms."

-Would I be more disappointed if my son was a toll-booth attendant or "that guy" from Real World/Road Rules that still does things like "The Gauntlet" or "Inferno" six years after his specific reality show ended?

-Was Chris Rix an even worse sideline reporter(Cotton Bowl) than Jill Arrington?


1)I'll get back to you on the Billy Joel question.  With him, it's a question of which do you rank higher? The songs you genuinely enjoy on their own merits or the unintentional comedy masterpieces like Downeaster Alexa or We Didn't Start the Fire?

2)I guess music critics feel Seger is a poor man's Springsteen, and the critics stopped liking Springsteen a long time ago.  Of course, these are the same people that are ready to build golden statues of bands like The Killers and Franz Ferdinand.  If music critics collectively were an NFL GM, they'd be Matt Millen.

3)West Virginia has hit its ceiling as a state and doesnt have the "upppppside" that would attract Mexico to make a trade. Mexico should ask for a hot prospect like Idaho or Iowa.  To move WVa, we'd probably have to go to Canada and take back Saskatchewan's bloated contract.

4)Always a problem at Quiznos, but not nearly as bad as the fact that the guy behind you in line is unfailingly just like Will Ferrell's art model guy on SNL.  He's either going to stab you or give you hepatitis in the parking lot.

5)If my son was a toll-booth attendant, chances are I am too or some similar job, so no big deal.  If my son was The Miz or my daughter was Coral/Veronica/Julie etc. I would go take a nap on the interstate.

6)Didn't see the Cotton Bowl, but the funniest bit of the Orange Bowl last night was the FSU players glowering and shielding their kicker from ABC's cameras on the sidelines, followed by Mike Tirico snarling, "apparently they don't want us to see their kicker," biting back the urge to add "like that's going to stop the poor schmuck from shanking just like he did before, just like every FSU kicker since the dawn of time."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 04, 2006, 01:13:01 PM
What was wrong with Jill Arrington anyway?
I loved them ... er I mean her.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 04, 2006, 02:13:08 PM
Utica fans -- the next six days are pretty huge for your team. 

This weekend brings Fisher and Alfred to your place.  Win both -- make a huge statement and get an early advantage in tiebreakers.  Split -- start the playoff race in the thick of things.  Get swept -- start the season in a hole. 

Following those two is a home game against undefeated Hamilton on Tuesday.  This is an in-region game that could really help at the end of the year in terms of quality wins (maybe a 14 pointer).  If they don't win the conference tourney a victory in this one could help them sneak into the expanded tourney field.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 04, 2006, 10:54:48 PM
Fisher by 35 or so, against Cazenovia.

A nice tune up game for the conference schedule...glad to see the Cards look sharp comming out of the winter break.

Big one on Friday...can't wait.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 04, 2006, 11:01:59 PM
also...Fisher only gives up 12 points in the first half, and only 38 for the game.

Utica and Fisher beat the same team with the basically the same margin of victory. (Utica by 31 Fisher by 35). much different scores tho.
low scoring in the fisher game, high scores in the Utica game...

Should make for an interesting game on friday.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on January 05, 2006, 12:10:15 AM
Hartwick takes a beating from Cortland, 79-62...game a little more out of hand than the score indicates as the Hawks made it respectable pressing until the final whistle against Cortland bench players. Cortland led 35-27 at the half then started the second on a 13-0 or so run and it took Hartwick six minutes to put the ball in the cylinder.

Hartwick looks better than they have in years past and definitely much better than the last time I saw them. They have a lot of young talent and I was greatly impressed by Anthony Brown, a 6'6 frosh from Milwaukee, WI. The little point guard Jan Coccozziello played well too and had 16 points but disappeared at points when his team needed him. Those two basically led Hartwick and no one else jumped out at me. Hawks run about 11-12 deep and play tenacious defense. But, at  key points when they needed a stop, someone missed an assignment and Cortland got an easy basket. The Dragons easily penetrated the 2-3 zone as well. Honestly, I can't see Hartwick's zone helping them against three-pointer and fast break happy St. John Fisher.

'Wick will be better than previous years, but won't compete atop the Empire 8. If everyone stays, the Hawks are a few years away.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 05, 2006, 12:38:59 AM
Utica is going to send a message Friday.  The tide is turning.  Utica is going to rock Fisher.
As for Hartwick's game versus Cortland - I will have to take your word for it but the article D-3 hoops said the first half was very tight.  Who cares anyway, this our year.  Utica is going to rock them this weekend.  I cannot wait for the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 05, 2006, 07:08:32 AM
"Utica is gong to rock Fisher"
Um, I'm glad you are looking forward to the game but let's get realistic, if anything the game will be tight and the winner gets what?
A game up in the division?
Whoopee. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 05, 2006, 09:10:47 AM
Nice to wake up and see Hartwick has begun its crash course with reality. Clear, Fisher plays defense too well for Utica to "rock them." They may nip the Cards(and subsequently get pummeled at Fisher like they do every year), but it will not be a blowout. Before I leave Mississippi for the swamplands, here are my predictions for this weekend's games.

Friday

Naz 78  Elmira 71
Alfred 80  Hartwick 64
RIT 62  Ithaca 65 (OT)
Fisher 58  Utica 56

Saturday

Naz 72  Ithaca 82
RIT 70  Elmira 57
Fisher 76  Hartwick 49
Alfred  70  Utica 76

Just my guesses. Everyone, have a safe weekend and I'll be back on Monday. Good luck to everyone's teams.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 05, 2006, 09:27:38 AM
GB15-
Ooooooooooooo I like the Alfred upset special!
I'm in Utica and last I checked the Observer Dispatch hasn't even given UC any cred.!
Enjoy the swamp!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 05, 2006, 03:50:42 PM
The Clarkson game may have been a wake up call for Utica. If we play against Fisher the way we did the other night, we will get destroyed.

Utica has more time off before being allowed back on campus, and as a result we always look awful in our first game back from break.

This year however, we relied on our talent and D to win. In the first half we looked awful on both ends, in the second, the intense D lead to our success on offense.

Should be a big game. The home court "advantage" is a bit diminished because the students aren't back from break yet. However, I'm willing to bet their will be a lot of rowdy former players there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 05, 2006, 04:03:44 PM
Off topic, what is the deal with the Karma rating?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 05, 2006, 04:36:21 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 03, 2006, 10:30:01 AM
Here's the projected starting lineups for tonight's RIT/UR matchup.  I'd list the ppg, but at this point it's pretty meaningless considering the Tigers play about 15 guys a game before Christmas.  ( RIT has 10 guys averaging between 5.2 and 2.5 ppg, and only three guys averaging more than that, including leading scorer Barret Zeinfeld, who doesn't start).















URRIT
Jeff Juron6'1"SoTyler Springer5'11"Sr
Joe Canty6'4"SrDrew Martin6'4"Sr
Mike Goia6'4"SrRob Hampton6'2"Jr
Uche Ndubizu6'6"SoFran Snyder6'4"Sr
Jon Onyiriuka6'7"SoTim Bacon6'6"Jr

Anyone from RIT know anything about Tim Bacon? I could have sworn that was the same Tim Bacon I went to Boys State with in 1998, meaning that he should have graduated two years ago. Maybe I am mistaken, but if it is him, we played on the same team at Boys State.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 05, 2006, 04:54:56 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 05, 2006, 07:08:32 AM
"Utica is gong to rock Fisher"
Um, I'm glad you are looking forward to the game but let's get realistic, if anything the game will be tight and the winner gets what?
A game up in the division?
Whoopee. 

I don't know about "rocking" anyone, but this weekends games are huge in determining where the conference tournament is played. Having a tournament outside of Rochester makes Fisher that much more vulnerable. Both teams understand how huge this weekend is, as does Alfred.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on January 05, 2006, 07:02:00 PM
Tim Bacon is from Massena, big strong post player. 

His late uncle, Tim Bristol, was a reserve on Potsdam's undefeated '86 championship team.

Think he's with his class, possibly 1 year behind.

Hope this helps
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 05, 2006, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: thebear on January 05, 2006, 07:02:00 PM
Tim Bacon is from Massena, big strong post player. 

His late uncle, Tim Bristol, was a reserve on Potsdam's undefeated '86 championship team.

Think he's with his class, possibly 1 year behind.

Hope this helps


That's him. Thanks!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 05, 2006, 10:20:02 PM
Tomorrows games are huge!  After we beat Fisher we will be one up ad that is invaluable.  Fisher is going down and the best player in the league is our boy.... and it is not Cichon (although he is good too).

Anyone notice that Hartwick has Betancourt again?  He killed us last season inboth games.  I think at Hartwick he had like 40 pts.  Didn't see him in the boxscore before. 

And what ever happened to Mad Hawk???  Must have clipped his wings or HMMMMMM BOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH  he is eating crow!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 05, 2006, 10:53:33 PM
Greetings from the Big Easy. It is uglier here than I thought, and I thought it was going to be bad. When Rush Limbaugh says "New Orleans is fine," don't believe him. I'm mooching off someone's wireless right now but my apt has no electric, no gas and when I opened the refrigerator I nearly passed out.

Hartwick getting Bettancourt back is huge. Mad Hawk said he was no longer with the team. Again, like everything else he says, he was wrong. This may bump them up to 3 or 4 wins in the conference and not just 1 or 2.

I hope everyone enjoys their weekend of E8 basketball. I'd pay large sums of money to be in the cozy confines of The Bulb, watching Ithaca blow it in the 2nd half to RIT like they always do, than to be here scrubbing mold off my fridge for 4 hours/day. I'd be willing to bet that 3rd world countries can't be much worse than some of the areas here. Count your blessings, I guess.

Go Bombers...big weekend, get Mullins to have somewhere to go this weekend so we can actually win these games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 06, 2006, 07:59:44 AM
Ok,
UC fans get a grip!
We will see how good you are this weekend, and if I have to eat some crow I will, but please, you haven't been anything since the 80's and now you all come out of the woodwork?
Enjoy the talent you have but for god sakes you are not the next "Williams"!
Nor is Fisher btw!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 06, 2006, 08:40:27 AM
I'll take:

Friday
Fisher over Utica (sorry Pioneers, you're gonna have to make me a believer)
RIT over Ithaca
Alfred over Hartwick
Naz over Elmira

Saturday
Utica over Alfred
RIT over Elmira
Ithaca over Naz
Fisher over Hartwick

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 06, 2006, 08:58:31 AM
Utica rolls SJF
Uticas Rolls Alfred

2-0

Best coach
Best Player

This is the year

Upset Special Hartwick over SJF  (Just Kidding) but boy would I love that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 06, 2006, 09:22:39 AM
ClearC,
Now define "rolls".
You have said in the past "UC is going to rock Fisher", now it is roll, what is next in that fantastic sophmoric vocabulary to describe the game- oh wait I know how about smoke, rout, or trounce.
C'mon hope for a good game and let that be that.
Oh, btw a mention of UC in the Utica OD today-oh, that's right it was the hockey team.  Woops
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 06, 2006, 09:53:56 AM
Booyah Folks!

With the conference season upon us, I slept like a baby last night. Unlike last year at this time, I went to bed last night and woke up this morning extremely confident that the Hawks will be competitive in the Empire 8 this season.

In the previous too seasons the Hawks have NOT been able to compete in the conference from a talent and experience perspective. Well, ladies and gentleman the Hawks are significantly more athletic and talented this season. Yes, the lack of collegiate  basketball experience is an issue. However, this will not be an issue a year or two from now. Compared to the previous two teams Coach Culpo has coached at Hartwick, this season's team makes them look like a jv high school  team.

The Hawks came in last in the pre-season poll and nobody in the conference respects the Hawks. Well, folks I guess the stage is set for some upsets by the Hawks. When they happen this board will not know what has hit it.

Just like Utica has to prove to the conference they are the team to beat, the Hawks will have to prove they are a competitive team. Since first, second, and third seed in the tournament will be extremely tough to get, the Hawks will be gunning for fourth place or a ECAC bid.

As I said earlier in the season Greg Bettancourt is NO longer on the team. If you don't believe me check out the official roster at http://www.hartwick.edu/x15932.xml. While you are there you will also notice that Matt Simoneschi is no longer on the roster. Rumor is he is taking the semester off.

Hartwick Men's Basketball:
Why not us, Why not now

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 06, 2006, 10:03:23 AM
I have no doubt that when you go slide into bed at night Hartwick Basketball is the only thing on your mind.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 06, 2006, 10:05:21 AM
Did you pass out on your dorm room in your bunk bed?

Why not you?

Um -ya still suck!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on January 06, 2006, 10:43:09 AM
Link for tonights Fisher-Utica game on radio.www.utica.edu/athletics/broadcast.cfm or go to Utica mensbasketball web site.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 06, 2006, 11:09:08 AM
Quote from: ricco1 on January 06, 2006, 10:43:09 AM
Link for tonights Fisher-Utica game on radio.www.utica.edu/athletics/broadcast.cfm or go to Utica mensbasketball web site.

You can also go to starsradionetwork.com, I'm sure they have a link for the basketball game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 06, 2006, 11:13:46 AM
It figures that the game is in my backyard and I'm going out of town!
Enjoy the game Budcrew- maybe I'll stop at Cavallo's before I get out of Dodge!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on January 06, 2006, 11:58:52 AM
Fisheralum, I don't think you can judge Utica's team based on the coverage they get in the OD.  The OD doesn't cover anything too well.  I don't think this game will by any means be a "rocking" or "rolling" of Fisheror vice versa, but I am hoping for a great game. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 06, 2006, 12:07:34 PM
lileyes,
No argument here 'bout the OD.
Humorous to read sometimes!
I'll be a good game-sorry I'll miss it
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 06, 2006, 01:18:24 PM
I'm going to make a silly request.  I finally have a free weekend.  Perfect weekend to see some hoops.  But RIT, UR, Fisher, and Naz are all out of town.  Coaches (McVean, Kornaker, Neer, and Daley) -- do you guys think you can get together next year and keep this from happening?  Great, and thanks.   ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 06, 2006, 01:24:13 PM
Bamm,
C'mon down to Utica-catch the game and hit a couple of cool gin mills!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 06, 2006, 02:21:43 PM
It won't be much of a game.  Utica by double digits!!  Whoohooo I am fired up baby.  The place is going to be rocking tonight!

As for my sophomoric diatribe, hey it is a free country and I can speak as I wish.  Utica is the team this year.  We are taking you all down.  Fisher just happens to be first. 

Hey Hawk man, don't be mad.  Change your name to fantasy man.  You are dreamin brother.  But make them sweet dreams!

Enjoy the games tonight... I know I will.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 06, 2006, 02:34:02 PM
Hey Clear-
Enjoy the allusions in your head!
Did I just read that you are predicting an undefeated season?
Good luck with that bro.

Really though enjoy the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 06, 2006, 02:44:48 PM
I cant type worth a damn either!

I'll be at Cavallo's!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on January 06, 2006, 03:34:43 PM
Who is starting tonight for Fisher. Kornaker been changing his starting five for differant reasons. Utica is a physical team. I hope Fisher can keep them under control.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2006, 04:04:19 PM
Should be a great game tonight. I just hope that UC had good practices this week to get ready.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 06, 2006, 04:53:50 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on January 06, 2006, 08:58:31 AM
Utica rolls SJF
Uticas Rolls Alfred

2-0

Best coach
Best Player

This is the year

Upset Special Hartwick over SJF  (Just Kidding) but boy would I love that.

Clear, I respect your opinions, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on each of your assertions:

1)Utica rolls Fisher: I doubt it and I think you do, too. If Utica wins, it's going to be a very tight game. Fisher is too good to get run out of the building. They outplayed R-MC on the road(R-MC fans even said so) and they play great defense. It's going to be close.

2)Utica rolls Alfred: Saxons are too experienced and talented for this to be a blowout. If Utica turns this one into a shootout, they could be in trouble. Quentin Bryant and Dillon Stein are enough to keep this one close.

3)Utica has the best player: To be honest, if I were picking a team and I could have any player in the E8, Cichon would maybe be my 3rd pick, and even that would be a tough call. I'd much rather have O'Brien or Bennett on my team; they bring more to the table than Cichon. Cichon's a great scorer but doesn't play the defense Bennett does and isn't the floor general that O'Brien is...or is he nearly as clutch as either of those guys. I'd honestly think about taking Quentin Bryant and Jimmy Bellis(only if he starts taking it to the hoop more) over Cichon. He's a good player, but I don't think he's the best in the conference.

4)Utica has the best coach: I've followed E8 hoops for going on six years now, and until this year I couldn't have told you the name of Utica's coach if you paid me. Whenever he's been at The Bulb he's done nothing but berated the officials and, consequently, caused his players to do the same thus taking them out of their game. When has he ever coached his team to a big victory on the road over the last few years? Give me Kornaker or McVean any day of the week over...what's his name again?

I'm not trying to rail on Utica here but I think the Pioneers bandwagon is getting a little top-heavy and is about to go around a sharp turn. I think they are firmly entrenched as 2nd best in the E8 hierarchy. Utica fans, as Bill Simmons says while paraphrasing The Wolf, "let's put the popsicles away for now."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 06, 2006, 06:42:21 PM
and it isn't Cichon, it is Ray Bryant.  You'll see for yourself tonight.  We are going to rock the Fish.... SQUISH THE FISH!!!!!!!!!

Our coach is way better than Kornaker.  Cmon buddy see the truth.  Kornaker has the best kids because Fisher packagaes better than everyone else.  The school costs less to begin with, it is no brainer.  Anyone in the league could coach Fisher and be on top.
I foyu want my honest opinion, I would say that Elmira and Hartwick's coach may be as good as anyone.  They have it the toughest.
But I think ANdy is the best.  You will see tonight!

Only 1 hour or so.  I cannot wait.  Fisher goes down tonight!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 06, 2006, 07:03:28 PM
Well, somebody besides Cichon better score because he's gonna draw Nick Bennett as his defender. Also, I don't think Fisher is that cheap of a school. Are you sure it's more expensive to go to Utica or an Elmira then Fisher? I've always said recruiting is half of coaching and Kornaker does that better than anyone in the conference. Take a look at Mack Brown. He's a very mediocre coach but he's a fantastic recruiter...hence the national championship.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 06, 2006, 09:48:51 PM
Bombers roll RIT, 69-53.  Box score should be available in the next 30 minutes or so, I'm anxious to see what went right for IC tonight.

Good times, good times.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on January 06, 2006, 09:59:25 PM
Fisher66-Utica58 Cichon7or8 points
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on January 06, 2006, 10:00:03 PM
Fisher down 6 at the half 38-32 and down 10 in the second half battle back and defeat Utica 66-58. Nice win to start the 05-06 Empire 8 season
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 06, 2006, 10:03:51 PM
This was a lucky win, but clearc needs to come here and eat his words
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on January 06, 2006, 10:08:25 PM
Fisher wasn't lucky Fisher is better skilled. Lookout hawk here they come.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 06, 2006, 10:19:50 PM
I am dismayed to say the least.  While I agree Fisher got a little lucky, they are the better team.  My hope is that we are the better team by the end of the year.

Congrats guys, you deserved it. 

Anyone know how bad Hartwick got rocked tonight?

I am guessing 20 or more!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 06, 2006, 10:28:30 PM
believe it or not, Hartwick only lost by 3 to Alfred.  Hawks even had a chance to tie in the final minute but couldn't get a layup or follows to drop.  Nice effort though, something they can build on.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 06, 2006, 10:32:04 PM
Saxons Shade Hartwick, 68-65
January 06, 2006 :
ONEONTA, NY – Junior center Dillon Stein (Norwin HS/N. Huntington, Pa.) scored 16 points and grabbed nine rebounds to lead Alfred University to a 68-65 win over Hartwick College in the first Empire 8 Conference game of the year for both teams at the Binder Gymnasium on Friday night.

Alfred took an early lead and led 35-31 at the half.

Hartwick responded in the second half, tying the game at 41-all on a pull up jumper by freshman guard Jan Cocozziello (New Hampton Prep/Westfield, N.J.) with 16:19 left in the game. The Hawks led by as many as four, taking a 62-58 lead with 5:11 left in the game on a jumper by Cocozziello.

The Saxons answered with a 7-0 run on an inside bucket by Stein, a three-pointer by junior guard Ryan Clemenson (South Seneca/Ovid, N.Y.), and a layup by Clemenson with 2:17 left to take a 65-62 lead.

After a free throw by Hartwick's Pat Dunnigan (Vernon Twp/Sussex, N.J.) cut the lead to one, 65-63, and a missed three-point try by Clemonson, Hartwick had a chance to tie the game with 52 seconds left, but Hartwick freshman forward Anthony Brown (North Division/Milwaukee, Wisc.) couldn't get a lay up to drop with 52 seconds left.

Stein converted on the other end to give Alfred a 67-63 lead that proved insurmountable.

Stein was 7-7 from the floor for the Saxons (6-5, 1-0), who also got 16 points from senior guard Quentin Bryant (Seneca Vocational/Buffalo, N.Y.). Clemenson added 12 and senior forward Todd Dersham (Campbell-Savona/Campbell, N.Y.) 11.

Hartwick was led by 20 from Cocozziello, 14 from Dunnigan, and 11 from senior guard Tim Kindlon (Bethlehem/Delmar, N.Y.). Brown finished with eight points, six rebounds, three blocks and four assists. The Hawks fall to 6-6, 0-1 in the Empire 8.

Hartwick will host St. John Fisher tomorrow afternoon at 4:00 p.m. Alfred travels to Utica College for a 4:00 p.m. tip off.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 06, 2006, 10:33:47 PM
RIT was held without a field goal for the final 10:23 of the game after leading by 1 at the half....goes without saying that'll get you beat every time.

22 points for Jim Bellis, 9 points, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 6 steals (and yes, 6 turnovers) for Jon Whetstone.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 06, 2006, 10:36:14 PM
Looks like the Tigers took another beating tonight.  To be honest I'm not all that surprised after their awful night on Tuesday -- not easy to recover immediately from something that dreadful.  Hopefully they can rebound at Elmira tomorrow.  

Not surprised by the Fisher/Utica score either -- or the way the game flowed.  Utica was going to come out fired up, ready to make a statement.  Fisher would have to absorb early rush, settle down, and take control.  Which looks like what happened in the second half.  If you were there and it went any other way enlighten us.

Again, important win for Ithaca tonight as they will probably be fighting for the last two playoff spots with Alfred and (hopefully) RIT.  They need to beat those teams at home.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 06, 2006, 10:38:18 PM
CB,

Wow.  That is an interesting piece of information.  Tim Bacon is and should be their go to guy to get a score, was he in foul trouble or out of the game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 06, 2006, 11:02:41 PM
Big win for Fisher even tho it was only the first league game.  Utica is most likely the 2nd best team in the league and to beat them in Utica is Huge.

As for Fisher being lucky...well if taking a shot in the mouth from a very good team away from your home floor, staying poised and close enough to be able to turn the game around with about 12 minutes in the 2nd half, and head off with a convincing win is lucky well I guess we are lucky...

For all the people that are going to say that winning a close game at Utica by 8 is not convincing, I would say that beating the 2nd best team in the conference on their home floor is convincing no matter what the score. Fisher took Utica's best shot and was able to come away with a win.

Great win for Fisher...need to stay focused tomorrow or it is all worthless...Go cards.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 06, 2006, 11:32:31 PM
Bamm, Bacon was RIT's leading scorer with 19 points and only committed one foul.  Foul trouble wasn't an issue at all for the Tigers as nobody had more than 3 and only 14 total.  I don't believe he got hurt as I think the play by play had him shooting free throws towards the end.  Must have been some ice cold shooting (both teams shot about 42% for the game) and possibly some turnovers that did it.

I saw the score and said to myself, "damn it feels like we haven't beaten them in forever."  Apparently we haven't: IC's release notes this is the first win for the Bombers against the Tigers since Feb. 2002.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 07, 2006, 12:47:20 AM
I have to admit I am a little surprised by your team.  Does this mean we will have it easy tomorrow????

I saw your box score and you guys are playing mostly freshmen.  Very impressive indeed.  I am wondering if ALfred is really the 2nd or 3rd best team. 

Predictions for Sat:
We get Alfred by 20
Fisher gets you by 30-40.

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 07, 2006, 09:11:18 AM
No crow to eat today!
Congrats SJF!
ClearC- Don't worry you have a whole season ahead!
Just hope Fisher dosn't waste it today!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 07, 2006, 09:54:23 AM
Utica gave that game away. The shooters went cold in the second half.

If you looked at the stats without knowing the score, you would assume Utica won by 15.

Fisher had 17 turnovers.

Utica killed them on the boards. 36-24. Offensive rebounds went to Utica 16-4.

Bottom line, if UC had hit there free throws, this game goes the other way. In my opinion, Utica has more talent overall and a deeper bench. Fishers experience was the difference in this game. I actully think Utica has a better chance at beating Fisher later in the season when they have a whole season of playing together under their belts.

I just hope they react to this with confidence, knowing that they can beat any team if they don't beat themselves.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on January 07, 2006, 11:20:21 AM
I think the difference between Fisher and the rest of the teams is defense. Not to many teams play great defense like Fisher does.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 07, 2006, 12:04:39 PM
I think a lot of that shooting trouble from Utica in the 2nd half was some good defense by Fisher...

I wasn't at the game, but I heard it on the internet...I think the bottom line is Utica is a very good team, but in the end Fisher was a better team and was able to turn the game around and win.

Fisher cleared a major hurdle with the win...anyone think they can go undefeated in the conference 2 years in a row?
I think it is possible but very hard to do. With the win last night they have won 25 straight conference games, and are 29-2 in the last 2 years and one game this year.  With domination like that I think anything is possible
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 07, 2006, 01:26:45 PM
Utica missed several easy uncontested shots. Inside, there was a LOT of contact. They easily could have called about 40 fouls on both teams in the second half alone. The problem was, UC didn't make the free throws that they did get to shoot.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on January 07, 2006, 06:03:44 PM
Fisher begins the Empire 8 season with an impressive win at HARTWICK 90-64 3 players in double figures led by Mike Mcgee with 20 and 19 from Dan McSweeney and 12 from Pete Gillette
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 07, 2006, 07:02:41 PM
nothing out of the ordinary on Day 2 of the league schedule, Fisher smashes Hartwick, RIT does likewise to Elmira, Ithaca and Utica pick up solid home wins over Naz and Alfred, respectively.

4 straight wins for the Bombers, 2-0 E8 and tied for first with SJF, I guess that makes Ithaca Basketball the "Roman Empire", right Mad Hawks?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 07, 2006, 11:57:46 PM
but you better pray that you don't lose to Hartwick when you do play.  By the way they only trailed Fisher 38-36 at the half according to the article. 

Utica played ok today.  If Alfred is the 3rd best team, then I am not sure we lose to anyone else.  Significant differance between Fisher and Alfred.  It should be interesting.  I have to admit I am a little concerned about Friday night.  I realize we have Hamilton next and I want to kill them, but the league is the real focus.

Hey Mad Hawk, what's up?  Aren't you going to tell me you had a moral victory today?

You are 0-2 brother!

Peace.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 08, 2006, 11:04:11 AM
Despite a 0-2 weekend, the Hawks get a boost!

Obviously, I am not happy that the Hawks lost. However the Hawks were hands down much more competitive than the previous two years. On Friday night the Hawks gave Alfred a run for their money. Yesterday, the Hawks hung with 20th ranked Fisher for 20 minutes before they took it to the next level. What is impressive is the Hawks were able to compete with 9 freshmen, 1 sophmore, 3 juniors, and 2 seniors on the roster. Of the 15 roster players only 3 had any E8 playing experience prior to the Weekend. Senior John Montana is the only player who has more than a year's experience in the E8. When the Hawks starters walked to center court on Friday night against Alfred NONE of them had any E8 playing experience.

Folks, this weekend was a perfect example how playing experience is so so so important in college athletics.

If Alfred is really the 3rd best team in the conference like many of the experts are predicting, then the Hawks have an increasing chance at making the E8 tournament as a fourth seed. The Hawks have to whether the storm against Utica next Friday and then they will look to make some up some headway against Ithaca, Elmira, RIT, and Naz.

Finally, the ship is starting to move in the right direction!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 08, 2006, 02:39:40 PM
You are 0-2
0-16 over 2 years
1-29 over the last 3 years!

I don't think you can make it my man.  Why don't you just hope you beat Elmira at home and hope to stay within 20 pts of anybody on the road.

Cmon man - we are gonna hammer you on friday (we just have to get through Tueday w/out injury)

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on January 08, 2006, 07:47:11 PM
Hey Hawk,
Your lot is improving, your team was more competitive vs Fisher than previous years.  You were only down by 2 at half time due to 3 to 4 buzzer time clock beating threes and some over all hot shooting.  I thought the key to the game was when Bennet and Gillette zoned in on your quick guard as well as two consequetive fast breaks resulting in a slam and a lay up by McSweeney.

On to the Chase
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 08, 2006, 08:23:22 PM
Chase Seedings yet?? 

Predictions:

1 - Fisher
2 - UR (after loss at NYU this weekend)
3 - Roberts?
4 - RIT
5 - Bport?
6 - Naz
7 - Geneseo
8 - Keuka

Truly, I have no idea how 3-5 will go. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 08, 2006, 08:47:53 PM
Two big wins for the Bombers this weekend. To be truthful, I was pretty sure they'd go 2-0 this weekend, especially after RIT got whipped as bad as they did at UR. Ithaca is for real. The newcomers are really stepping up big. Right now, freshman guard Sean Burton looks like he could make a run at E8 ROY. Dominic Scanlan is a quality big off the bench--something you don't find everyday in the E8. The role players are also playing very well; Brian Joe is hitting 3's and Sean Stahn brings energy and athleticism off the bench.

Hopefully Brian Andruskiewicz isn't seriously hurt. He didn't play against Naz on Saturday and played only 18 minutes, before fouling out, in the win against RIT. His skill and leadership is very important to this Bombers team. Clear and all the other UC fans, considering your showings in The Bulb over the past three years, I wouldn't count that game as a win quite yet.

Bamm, here's my best shot at the seeds. I do know, however, that the Quarterfinal games will be played at Brockport and Nazareth, the Semifinals at UofR and the finals are TBA. My guess:

1-Fisher
2-UR
3-Brockport
4-RIT
5-Roberts Wesleyan
6-Keuka
7-Naz
8-Geneseo

I think Naz would ordinarily be the #6 seed but since they are one of the first-round hosts, they're dropped to 7th. Also, the committee will reward Keuka's 5-2 start regardless of the fact they've played nobody. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they switch Keuka to #5 and drop Roberts to #6. That's just my guess.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 08, 2006, 09:28:32 PM
Well, Brockport has on its site that they play RIT in the 1st round so that must be the #4 vs #5 game. Also, the semis are at UR and the finals are at RIT.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 08, 2006, 10:22:19 PM
Where are the chase games being played?
1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 08, 2006, 10:27:37 PM
nevermind I guess I just need to read a little more...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 08, 2006, 11:47:19 PM
I admit SJF is still better as of today but I am going to tell you right now that the Cocoziello kid from Hartwick is a lock to win the rookie of the year.
I saw him in the scrimmage versus IT and I saw him against Fitchburgh State and now I see that he had 25 against Fisher.  Forget about it.  He is a very good freshman.

And Bulb - we are going to take you this year!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 09, 2006, 08:43:26 AM
Chase Seedings from the Democrat and Chronicle:

1 - Fisher
2 - UR
3 - Roberts
4 - RIT
5 - Brockport
6 - Keuka
7 - Naz
8 - Geneseo

Naz on Wednesday:
6:15   Geneseo vs Fisher
8:15   Naz vs UR

Bport on Wednesday
6:15   Keuka vs Roberts
8:15   Bport vs RIT
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 09, 2006, 08:51:35 AM
Here is the link to the D&C article
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060109/SPORTS09/601090308/1007/SPORTS
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 09, 2006, 09:58:06 AM
Empire 8 Action
1/9/06 --> 1/14/06

Tuesday, January 10

7pm: Hamilton@Utica
8pm: Ithaca@Elmira

Wednesday, January 11

JP Morgan Chase Tournament

1. Fisher vs. 8 Geneseo @Nazerath, 6:15pm
5. Brockport vs. 4. RIT @Brockport, 8:15pm

3. Roberts Wesleyan vs. 6 Keuka @Brockport, 6:15pm
7. Nazareth vs. 2 Rochester @Nazerath, 8:15pm

Friday, January 13

JP Morgan Chase Tournament

Fisher/Geneseo/Brockport/RIT

Consolation@UR, 1:30pm
Semifinal@UR, 6:15pm

Roberts Wesleyan/Keuka/Naz/Rochester

Consolation@UR, 3:30pm
SemiFinal@UR, 8:15pm

8pm: Utica@Hartwick

Saturday, January 14

JP Morgan Chase Tournament

Seventh Place Game@RIT, 11am
Fifth Place Game @RIT, 1pm

Third Place Game@UR, 3pm

Championship Game@UR, 8pm


Enjoy the action!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: cantbestopped on January 09, 2006, 04:23:13 PM
Why do two lower seeds get home games in the first round, or do the seedings only matter who you play?  it would make more sense to flip-flop the 8:15 games locations.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 09, 2006, 04:39:54 PM
Tourney sites are rotated from year to year.  The tournament intentionally puts teams on their home floors in the first round, regardless of seed ( putting more butts in the bleachers is a good reason ).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on January 09, 2006, 06:08:07 PM
why do they let a team play on their home court? I think it might be UR- Fisher. If it is I think they should move it to RIT even though Fisher beat RIT on their court last year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 09, 2006, 07:28:57 PM
as much as I would love to see a potential championship played away from UR's home floor, it is probably the best venue in rochester. Maybe Roberts is better but I don't think so. All the other gyms are too small.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 09, 2006, 07:33:01 PM
by the way...I hope Utica destroys Hamilton this week.

Not a big fan of the light blue I guess...I think it will be a good one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hoopfan17 on January 09, 2006, 08:42:53 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 08, 2006, 08:47:53 PM
Right now, freshman guard Sean Burton looks like he could make a run at E8 ROY.

Ok I definitely can't agree with you on this one Ithaca fan, even though I am not a big Hartwick fan, I must say that hands down the E8 ROY is going to be Jan Cocozziello.  If you've seen this kid play you would completely understand.  Does anyone disagree with me on this one?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 09, 2006, 08:53:56 PM
Birdman,

Just for the record, RIT has the biggest D3 gym in Rochester.  Although Clark Gym's listed capacity is only 211 more than UR's Palestra, I suspect the real difference is greater.

Roberts' gym is big as well, and I suspect it rivals RIT's capacity.  Both are bigger than the Palestra.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 09, 2006, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: hoopfan17 on January 09, 2006, 08:42:53 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 08, 2006, 08:47:53 PM
Right now, freshman guard Sean Burton looks like he could make a run at E8 ROY.

Ok I definitely can't agree with you on this one Ithaca fan, even though I am not a big Hartwick fan, I must say that hands down the E8 ROY is going to be Jan Cocozziello.  If you've seen this kid play you would completely understand.  Does anyone disagree with me on this one?

Herring from Utica will likely be in the discussion.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 10, 2006, 09:49:16 AM
Herring is a nice player, but even I have to admit that as much as I love my team, that kid from hartwick is on another level.  I am wondering how the hell they got him.

As for tonight, we are going to kick the crap out Hamilton for the E-8 baby.  The continentals are going down!!
And then were coming after you MADHAWK.

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 10, 2006, 12:12:45 PM
Quote from: hoopfan17 on January 09, 2006, 08:42:53 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 08, 2006, 08:47:53 PM
Right now, freshman guard Sean Burton looks like he could make a run at E8 ROY.

Ok I definitely can't agree with you on this one Ithaca fan, even though I am not a big Hartwick fan, I must say that hands down the E8 ROY is going to be Jan Cocozziello.  If you've seen this kid play you would completely understand.  Does anyone disagree with me on this one?

Hold up, where did I say he was definitely going to win E8 ROY? All I said is that if Burton continues playing like he has since he was inserted into the starting lineup, he'd be in the discussion(that's what "make a run at" means) for said award. Tell me how I was annointing him the winner or handing him the award right now? Burton's a solid player and a smart ballhandler; something this team has lacked since Dane Fischer left in 2001. Burton is MAYBE the 5th or 6th scoring option for Ithaca so it's obvious he won't have the numbers that Cococrisp for Hartwick has, but he may be just as important. Sure, the kid had 25 vs Fisher; but 20 of those were in the first half when Mike McGee was guarding him; McGee can't guard his shadow. In the 2nd half, with Bennett on him, he got locked up...which is to be expected. It's a numbers game and Cocoziello will probably win ROY but Burton will still be talked about.

You Utica fans should be worrying about whether Justin Cichon is even going to make the 1st team, let alone have a shot at E8 POY. He has a long way to go if he's going to catch Canori or Q.Bryant.

You all need to relax. I'm just not sure how you took me saying that Burton would be "in the discussion" as meaning "he'll be the winner." Quite a gap to bridge between the two.

As for the "lower-seeded" teams playing home games in the Chase, it's a necessary evil. Geneseo and Keuka are little too far off the beaten path to play at their place, so its rotated among the rest of the schools. The finals should always be at RIT as, like Bamm said, they have the biggest gym and the objective of the Chase SCHOLARSHIP Tournament is to raise money. Either way, UR is good enough that playing at Naz shouldn't matter. RIT, on the other hand, is hurt a little more by having to play at Brockport, but I'm not sure RIT would beat Brockport in Clark Gym(no disrespect to the Tigers).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: diesel32 on January 10, 2006, 01:21:58 PM
I have seen Sean Burton play first hand so it's hard to say that IC's Burton is the 5th or 6th option in that offense especially since he is one of the primary ballhandlers for that team and even more important if he has more 20 point games especially since he sat out all but the very end of the first semester he has flown somewhat under the radar. As for the Utica's Doug Herring he is at times an electrufying player but in his defense he has players like Ray Bryant, Willie Lucas, and a potential E8 POY in Justin Cichon so he is not looked upon to have to carry the load like the kid from Hartwick, and trust me being a utica fan i dont feel anyone could disagree, but please do try i claim to be right i'm just saying i'm not wrong
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 10, 2006, 07:51:02 PM
bamm, I wasn't just talking about the size of the gym. UofR's gym is probably the best venue taking into account size, location, and quality of the venue.  I like Roberts gym, however, it seems to me that the Chase tourny championship should be in the city somewhere.
that is all I was sayin.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on January 10, 2006, 08:35:22 PM
Having been in most of them, Geneseo has the largest Gym of the teams in the Chase Tourney, Louise Kuhl is the same size as Jerry Welsh, easily seats 2500-2800. 

Brockport's Tuttle North is listed at 2,000, but could fit more in a pinch.  Geneseo is only 25 minutes from Thruway Exit 46.

I believe RIT is in the process of building a huge new facility that clearly will have the largest capacity in the area.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on January 10, 2006, 08:58:25 PM
UC beat Hamilton 84-71!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 10, 2006, 09:37:41 PM
I don't think that Geneseo or Brockport are really that much bigger than RIT.

RIT did build a new facility, but not for basketball, the games there aren't leaving Clark Gym anytime soon.

With over half the teams right in Rochester, no matter how big the gym is, I don't think we'll see the finals at Geneseo anytime soon. Probably not in Brockport either.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woot on January 10, 2006, 10:15:30 PM
the only reason why utica beat hamilton is because hamilton is missing three of its top players Tk, giorgi, and ray due to some unknown reason. utica is trash
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 10, 2006, 10:32:48 PM
Quote from: woot on January 10, 2006, 10:15:30 PM
the only reason why utica beat hamilton is because hamilton is missing three of its top players Tk, giorgi, and ray due to some unknown reason. utica is trash

Well, Utica isn't trash.  But aside from that, can anyone (I'm thinking it's beyond woot's capabilities) make a coherent post about why Hamilton was without those players?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 10, 2006, 10:35:14 PM
Ithaca by a billion over Elmira.  Looks like the Eagles have settled comfortably into the basement of the E8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 10, 2006, 11:52:46 PM
Are you kidding me?  We kicked ass tonight.  We got off to a slow start and once we adjusted to their pressure we dominated.  We had foul trouble tonight and it still didn't matter.  Coaching really made a difference in this game.  We made adjustments and they didn't.  Nice to lok down there and not see Tom Murphy working the sideline.  We may have lost if he was there.

As for being trash, c'mon get a clue.  Go back to your liberty league sight.

Hey Mad Hawk get ready brother here we come.  We are going to lock up your freshman stud.  He can't be that good if he only scored 19 on FIsher's McGee - he can't guard a dead man, and Bennet gets way too much publicity from the Fisher crowd.  We win by atleast 25 on Friday.  I will be there - should I be looking for a man in a Hawk's costume?

Cheer up - it looks like you may split with Elmira this year!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 11, 2006, 12:15:02 AM
Quote from: woot on January 10, 2006, 10:15:30 PM
the only reason why utica beat hamilton is because hamilton is missing three of its top players Tk, giorgi, and ray due to some unknown reason. utica is trash

If the rumor about why the 2 guys from south africa weren't there is true, then Hamilton fans do not have the right to call ANY other program trash. I am not at liberty to repeat this rumor, but if it is true, it will likely be in the news (unless there is an amazing cover up job) and Hamilton can forget about having those two in the lineup for the rest of the season.


That being said, I'm not so sure that those two being out didn't help Hamilton stay closer than they would have. With their absence, Hamilton had to go with a smaller, faster lineup. As a result their D did excellent until Utica substituted to adjust. Hamilton also was forced to attempt twice the number of 3 pointers that they usually do. If not for hitting 12 three's, Hamilton wouldnt have had a prayer of staying within 20.

The absence of those two also had nothing to do with Herring and Cichon making the Hamilton guards look silly. Herring dropped 23 and made walchons look like he was the freshman. Bryant scored double figures despite sitting almost the entire first half with foul trouble. Utica had 4 guys in double figures.

The entire Utica team played tough tonight. They were down 13 with only about 12 minutes left, and then held Hamilton scoreless for almost 10 minutes.

Finally, excuses are like butts. We all have them, and they all stink. You didn't hear Fisher fans crying after their 2 losses that they didn't have Nick Bennet. You didn't hear RIT fans a few years back crying that they didn't have some of their best players. You didn't see UC claiming that they would have won a lot more games if Willie Lucas was on the team the whole season.

You play with what you have. Things happen, and as a team you have to react. Hamilton played tough without those guys today, and for that I give them credit.  But to say that the only reason UC won was because a few guys were not there is intellectually dishonest.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woot on January 11, 2006, 01:40:05 AM
i was kidding but seriously what is the rumor? recruiting violation? falsification of academic records???
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 11, 2006, 07:23:00 AM
Good win by UC!
Even without couple of players- UC would still have won that game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 11, 2006, 09:08:47 AM
Booyah Folks,

Whoop d-doo Utica beats Undefeated Hamilton. It's history now and life goes on.

The plot thickens....Utica and the associated dog/pony show has 2 1/2 days to bask in the euphoria before heading down to Hartwick. Hopefully the egos will not rage, because there is the possibility of a story book season hitting a bump.

Utica fans consider this analogy:
Hartwick is to West Virginia, as Utica is to Villanova

Clearconceit- I am looking forward sitting with you Friday night, holding hands and singing kumbaya. While Utica pisses away a victory and Jan COCOZZIELLO lights up the scoreboard.

Do you want to sit in the same place you did during the Fitchburg game? Behind the opposing team's bench

Mull this over and get back to me...

Ciao for now!

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 11, 2006, 09:30:57 AM
Hey Mad,
The only problem with your analogy is that West Virginia dosn't suck!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 11, 2006, 09:37:41 AM
It's Early in Season, fisheralum91! You might be eating your words later in the season.

By the way...We had your Cardinal(s) at hello on Saturday! Experience, not talent, won the game!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 11, 2006, 09:40:17 AM
We will see mad man.
I give cred to your freshman- kid has talent, but as far as the season goes, I'm not too worried.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 11, 2006, 10:35:23 AM
As for the Balco labs sponsored St. John Fisher.

See you Feb 3 and again on Feb 25/26
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 11, 2006, 11:24:11 AM
Quote from: Mad Hawk on January 11, 2006, 09:08:47 AM
Booyah Folks,

Whoop d-doo Utica beats Undefeated Hamilton. It's history now and life goes on.

The plot thickens....Utica and the associated dog/pony show has 2 1/2 days to bask in the euphoria before heading down to Hartwick. Hopefully the egos will not rage, because there is the possibility of a story book season hitting a bump.

Utica fans consider this analogy:
Hartwick is to West Virginia, as Utica is to Villanova

Clearconceit- I am looking forward sitting with you Friday night, holding hands and singing kumbaya. While Utica pisses away a victory and Jan COCOZZIELLO lights up the scoreboard.

Do you want to sit in the same place you did during the Fitchburg game? Behind the opposing team's bench

Mull this over and get back to me...

Ciao for now!



I really hope UC puts on a show on the Hawks' ass on Friday, so Mad Hawk will have to eat some oh-so-tasty crow.
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 11, 2006, 11:39:12 AM
Some quick hits before I have to run:

1)Good win for Utica--and the conference--over Hamilton. Like others have said, you play with what you have and make adjustments. That's sports. Ithaca's football team started something like 15 different starters(of 22), from their season opener, in their playoff game. That happens at this level, no excuses.

2)MadHawk, Hartwick is to WVU? I think not, considering that team was one half away from being in the Final Four last year and returns almost its entire squad. I would be willing to hear a Hartwick is Alcorn State basketball analogy, though.

3)The Bombers are rolling. Five straight wins and undefeated in conference play. The way I see it, we need about 8 wins to make the E8 tourney and we're well on our way. Good to see Andruskiewicz came back after a minor injury to score 15 pts in 19 mins. This team can beat anyone in the E8 this year with the way they shoot the 3.

4)I'm salivating for Ithaca @ Hartwick on January 20th.

5)MadHawk, maybe the Fisher guys actually hit the gym. If I had NFL-quality facilities at my disposal, I'd probably go a lot more often than I do.

6)Nick Bennett is overrated? Spoken like someone who is not familiar at all with that team.

7)Finally, the talent disparity between Fisher and Hartwick is huge. MadHawk, you may be the first person whose team lost by 26 points to claim that his team had as much talent as the other. You keep telling yourself that at night.

Gotta run, hope everyone has a good day. I'm pumped to see how the Chase plays out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on January 11, 2006, 12:47:47 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on January 10, 2006, 11:52:46 PM
Are you kidding me?  We kicked ass tonight.  We got off to a slow start and once we adjusted to their pressure we dominated.  We had foul trouble tonight and it still didn't matter.  Coaching really made a difference in this game.  We made adjustments and they didn't.  Nice to lok down there and not see Tom Murphy working the sideline.  We may have lost if he was there.

Clearconceit,

We? Do you play for Utica? Last time I checked, it was the players that did the work on the court.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ucaafan on January 11, 2006, 02:55:31 PM
From a Liberty League follower - congrats to Utica on win over Hamilton. Utica is one of the most improved teams in the league and a perfect example of how a team matures (and improves) as the underclassmen gain experience - players like Cichon and Lucas deserve their accolades.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 11, 2006, 03:22:14 PM
Clear, are you a player? I'd be careful about lying because El Guru could come in here and say your connection is from a Utica College campus address.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 11, 2006, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 11, 2006, 03:22:14 PM
Clear, are you a player? I'd be careful about lying because El Guru could come in here and say your connection is from a Utica College campus address.

There are a lot of people on campus for winter session, so that really wouldnt matter.

I'm pretty sure Clear does not play for Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on January 11, 2006, 03:48:11 PM
clearconceit you got beat by a team that has a player that couldn't guard a dead man and a team with a player that gets to much publicity, that is'nt saying much about your team. I can't wait to see what happens when they play your team on their home court. I think your comments are very funny. I really miss joshreed.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woot on January 11, 2006, 03:57:54 PM
utica beating hamilton w/o three of its top players in tk, giorgi, and ray is like mohawk valley community college beating duke in a game without jj reddick, shelden williams, lee melchionni, and josh mcroberts. its like yeh you won, but over who?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 11, 2006, 04:08:08 PM
Quote from: woot on January 11, 2006, 03:57:54 PM
utica beating hamilton w/o three of its top players in tk, giorgi, and ray is like mohawk valley community college beating duke in a game without jj reddick, shelden williams, lee melchionni, and josh mcroberts. its like yeh you won, but over who?

Actually, it's not like that at all, considering Duke basketball consistently has blue chip recruits that come off the bench and would crush any D3 team, let alone Mohawk Valley CC 100 out of 100 times.

Quote from: ricco1 on January 11, 2006, 03:48:11 PM
clearconceit you got beat by a team that has a player that couldn't guard a dead man and a team with a player that gets to much publicity, that is'nt saying much about your team. I can't wait to see what happens when they play your team on their home court. I think your comments are very funny. I really miss joshreed.

Who gets too much publicity?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 11, 2006, 04:18:36 PM
Quote from: woot on January 11, 2006, 03:57:54 PM
utica beating hamilton w/o three of its top players in tk, giorgi, and ray is like mohawk valley community college beating duke in a game without jj reddick, shelden williams, lee melchionni, and josh mcroberts. its like yeh you won, but over who?

How come you weren't crying when Hamilton won while scoring 94 points without those same players just last week?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 11, 2006, 04:43:18 PM
Why are these 3 guys out of the lineup anyway?


Bamm, I think Bennett is the one being referred to as getting "too much publicity"
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 11, 2006, 07:03:05 PM
Seriously what is up with the Hamilton players that are not in the lineup, what is this big rumor.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hoopfan17 on January 11, 2006, 07:18:52 PM
I have to agree with Madhawk, I think many people right now are under estimating Hartwick.  Once again I will say I am not a huge Hartwick fan, but this year they truly have some talent.  They have a great freshman in Cocozziello who is 6th on the conferences scoring list, they have the second best rebounder in the league with Brown and from watching them play they have a lot of heart.  Maybe there's not a good possibility they will beat Utica on Friday, but I think there's a good possibility they can make a run for the conference tournament if they can close out some games and play more consistent, they're all over the place right now. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 11, 2006, 09:13:28 PM
Fisher takes care of business in the first round of the Chase tourny, beating Geneseo by 15. Close game at the half (31-30), a lot like the last game, but Fisher goes on a 10-0 run mid-way through the half, and ends up running away with it.
Tough game friday, no matter who the Card's play, but I really want a Fisher UofR final.

GO CARDS
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 11, 2006, 09:47:44 PM
Are you kidding me?  My response about Fisher's McGee being a dead man and bennett being overrated was in response to someone's ill advised comments about the Cocoziello kid from Hartwick.  The fact (according to people I know that saw the film) is he was going off on them and Kornaker tried everybody on him.  Yes, while I don't play and don't go there I do know the facts because I talk to guys who do play!

Mad Hawk - I will run anked throught the streets of Utica is we lose to you guys.  I don't care how improved you are you cannot hang with us.

In fact I am getting alittle annoyed with all of this Itaca banter too.  I can't wait to kick your *&&*&*** too! 

We will be there in the end boys.  And yes as  fan I can say we!

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 11, 2006, 10:05:21 PM
Take it easy Clear. Utica has a good team, with what Ithaca is doing and as good as Fisher is I think there are a lot of other storys to talk about.

Utica is a very good team but not as good as Fisher and, who knows, Ithaca may have a team that could sneak into the top 2 of the league. I still think Utica will finish 2nd, but come on. A few wins against some ok teams does not make you a powerhouse.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 11, 2006, 10:52:15 PM
The Chase game of the night is RIT/Brockport, with the Port winning in OT by 8. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 12, 2006, 08:35:35 AM
Last night RIT was down by as many as 27 points!!  It was 51-24 with a minute and a half left in the 1st.  They tied the game up with 4 minutes left in the second half.  They were down by 5 with a minute left and managed to force overtime when Rick Whitwood (freshman) hit a 3 with 4 seconds left. 

Brockport does a nice job of keeping their composure in OT to somehow pull out the win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 12, 2006, 10:14:00 AM
First off, can we put a moratorium on Hartwick talk until they, say, WIN A CONFERENCE GAME?!? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt that other boards give the second worst team in the conference as much run as Hartwick gets here in the E8. Sure, Cococrisp is a good player but many teams have players just as good(see: O'Brien, Cichon, Bellis, Canori, etc) and much better supporting casts(see: every team besides Elmira). Let's just put a hold on the Hartwick talk for awhile until they do something worthy of talking about.

Utica fans, with the way some of you guys talk, why do the other teams even bother playing in the conference? From the sounds of it, teams shouldn't even show up to play Utica. It seems like you want the other teams to just concede 2nd place to you guys(has anyone ever heard of conceding 2nd place?). You guys are a fine team, but you still have to go out on the road and prove it; something the Pioneers haven't done over the last three years. And, yes, I'd be very surprised if Utica beats Ithaca in The Bulb. The Bombers will likely be a small favorite in that game.

Sounds like the 1st round of the Chase Tourney had some exciting games. Even the two lowest seeds(Geneseo, Naz) hung around for awhile with Fisher and UR. Doesn't look like there will be any conference matchups in the tourney unless RIT and Naz meet each other in the consolation bracket. Here's hoping for UR vs Fisher(finally). Brockport or Roberts will probably pull an upset and ruin it for everyone.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 12, 2006, 10:51:37 AM
I think everyone in Roch wants to see the king of the hill game!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on January 12, 2006, 12:34:24 PM
Gobombers don't judge all Utica fans on the comments of Clearconciet.  I am a Utica fan and I think some of the things he says are absurd.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 12, 2006, 01:39:15 PM
Lileyes, I know...hence, why I said some Utica fans.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 12, 2006, 02:36:29 PM
Hey Lileyes,
Good coverage for UC finally in the OD.
I see that it took the Hamilton game for them to take notice! :P
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 13, 2006, 09:55:57 AM
We are coming to town my man.  Good luck tonight.  I think we win by 20 or more.  As for the Bombers, enjoy your soft early schedule.  We are better than you and there is no way you will be a small favorite when we collide.  No shot baby.

We will get you by 10 - 20 too.

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 13, 2006, 11:24:03 AM
Quote from: clearconceit on January 13, 2006, 09:55:57 AM
We are coming to town my man.  Good luck tonight.  I think we win by 20 or more.  As for the Bombers, enjoy your soft early schedule.  We are better than you and there is no way you will be a small favorite when we collide.  No shot baby.

We will get you by 10 - 20 too.

Peace

Clear,

I'll say that Utica wins by at least 12.. I'll even give Mad Hawk the benefit of the doubt because they are at Hartwick, and the Utica players might get a little tired before the game trying to walk around the campus to get to the gym up those obscene hills.

Good luck to both teams, here's to hoping there is a clean and well-played game with no injuries to any players.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 13, 2006, 12:25:50 PM
Budcrew08 - great line.  Yeah those hills are killers.  Come to think of it maybe that's why they stink every year.  they are too tired to play ball!

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 13, 2006, 04:48:24 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on January 13, 2006, 09:55:57 AM
We are coming to town my man. Good luck tonight. I think we win by 20 or more. As for the Bombers, enjoy your soft early schedule. We are better than you and there is no way you will be a small favorite when we collide. No shot baby.

We will get you by 10 - 20 too.

Peace

Clear, I see you're trying your hardest to challenge Mad Hawk's record--once thought impossible to break--for moronic comments in a single week. Ithaca has no shot against Utica? Interesting comment, let's play a numbers game real quick.

1) 9, 15, 15

If you answered, "what is the amount of points Ithaca has pasted Utica by in Utica's last three trips to Ithaca?" you'd be correct!

2)39, 41, 53

"What is the pathetic amount of points the vaunted Utica offense has scored in their last three visits to The Bulb?" Ding, ding, ding!!

3) 27, 32, 35

"What is the average temperature of Ithaca winters since 2002?" Oooooh, incorrect, it's actually Utica's shooting percentage the last three times they've visited Ithaca.

So remind me again why, if there were lines on D3 basketball, Ithaca wouldn't be a favorite against Utica at home? Oh, it must be the fact that Ithaca has trounced you three straight times there with teams that are all inferior to this year's Bombers team. Wait a second...

And as for your soft early schedule comment, I had to reread a couple times before I realized you were serious. I suppose if @Hampden-Sydney, @Roanoke, Potsdam, Cortland, @Cortland, @Plattsburgh isn't a tough schedule, then what does that make Utica's non-conference schedule consisting of such perennial giants as St.Joseph's of Vermont, Skidmore, Clarkson and Cazenovia? And don't give me the line about how SUNYIT is 3-0 in the SUNYAC because they're gonna get roughed up when they have to start playing the big boys in that conference. Sure, Hamilton and Union are tough games, but I'm not sure how anyone who knows anything about D3 ball can call Ithaca's early season schedule "soft."

I think you're doing a good job of losing a lot of respect for Utica's fanbase. I like some of those guys but it's hard not to have a bad taste in your mouth about Utica basketball after reading some of your posts. I guess what I'm saying is: keep running your mouth(anyone remember "we'll kill Fisher at home?"), keep eating crow whenever you get beat by a "lesser" team, show up in Rochester for the E8 tourney, watch your team play its one game, then go home and sit in the corner until next year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 13, 2006, 06:49:28 PM
By the way, does anyone else seem to notice that Clear doesn't really post near the game times? I bet he's a scrub on the team. Hey, as long as you're the first one off the bench congratulating the guys coming off the floor, you're doing your job, right Clear?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 13, 2006, 06:58:05 PM
I prefer to think he's one of those idiots that dressed like a Pioneer-themed clown at Fisher for the E8 tourney last year.  That would explain his pre-game disappearance as well, as he needs some time to apply all that makeup.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 14, 2006, 12:12:24 PM
Wow is all I can say.
1st of all I am not a player.  But I did manage to get thrown out of the game.  With about 6 minutes left I got the heave ho for yelling at the officials.  Word of caution if you travel to Hartwick for a game - take it easy.  I would never have been thrown out at Utica for what I did.

Anyway, I can onyl make 2 possible comments after watching 34 minutes of basketball.
Either we aren't as good as I thought, or Hartwick is pretty good.
If it is the latter, then GOBOMBERS may want to get alot of posts in between today and Friday because you verywell may lose and I believe you said you would never post again.

We were lucky to win the game.

Peace

PS Went to Reds Filling station to drink afterwards.  Great spot!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 14, 2006, 12:20:54 PM
You were sitting near Cichons dad! That was awesome when you got tossed. I thought it was a Hartwick fan. I have to admit I was surprised that anyone got tossed, the ref seemed to be thin skinned.

That must mean you only saw one of the two weak Technical foul calls of the night. Herring hot T'd up because he was arguing the proper ruling with an official, who later was told by the other official that Herring was correct. The other one was before the game started when Bryant "dunked" in warm ups. Unfortunately for Utica, the officials missed Hartwick doing it about 10 times. Because of that, Montana from Hartwick scored 1 point without seeing any playing time.

Utica came into that game with no urgency. They played the worst they have all season, and Hartwick gave them everything they had as if they were playing Duke. It still wasn't enough.

They have a young team that will upset somebody like they do every year. I just hope Utica learned not to sleep on anyone after last night.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 14, 2006, 04:13:32 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 14, 2006, 12:20:54 PM
The other one was before the game started when Bryant "dunked" in warm ups. Unfortunately for Utica, the officials missed Hartwick doing it about 10 times. Because of that, Montana from Hartwick scored 1 point without seeing any playing time.

Whaaa?? The zebras called a T in warmups?? and gave Hartwick a point??  For dunking?? I didn't even know they could do that. That's preposterous, ludicrous and a bunch of other long words too.  Makes you wonder how a guy gets to be a referee if all he wants to is to go on a hissy little power trip over nothing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 14, 2006, 06:16:29 PM
I'll take UR by 3 today, 78-75.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 14, 2006, 07:03:25 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 14, 2006, 04:13:32 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 14, 2006, 12:20:54 PM
The other one was before the game started when Bryant "dunked" in warm ups. Unfortunately for Utica, the officials missed Hartwick doing it about 10 times. Because of that, Montana from Hartwick scored 1 point without seeing any playing time.

Whaaa?? The zebras called a T in warmups?? and gave Hartwick a point??  For dunking?? I didn't even know they could do that. That's preposterous, ludicrous and a bunch of other long words too.  Makes you wonder how a guy gets to be a referee if all he wants to is to go on a hissy little power trip over nothing.

Not sure if that was sarcasm, but dunking in warm ups is supposed to be a technical foul. They made the right call, but missed Hartwick doing the same.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 14, 2006, 07:16:12 PM
Plattsburgh knocks off Ithaca, 75-68. Two big runs--one in each half-- by the Cards did the Bombers in. In the first half Ithaca allowed Plattsburgh to go on a 16-0 run and open up a 13-point lead. The Bombers rallied to tie it going into the half at 36. The Bombers took a 60-58 lead with 4 1/2 minutes remaining but Plattsburgh went on a 9-0 to open it up and subsequently made all their FT's.

Brian Joe led the Bombers with 18 points. Freshman Sean Burton filled up the stat sheet with 14 pts, 5 reb, 5 asts, 4 stls. Jim Bellis had 11pts and 12 rebs but shot only 4-16 from the field. Not gonna say the Bombers got homed(I wasn't there) but P-burgh shot 34 ft's to Ithaca's 13 ft's. That's significant.

As for the Chase Final, I'm pissed I can't be there for it. I'll take Fisher in OT, 72-68.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 14, 2006, 09:45:28 PM
Fisher by 9 over U of R.

2 years in a row, now 11-2 with only empire 8 games left. I am feeling pretty good about a real good season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 14, 2006, 11:54:48 PM
Congrats to Fisher!  great for the league.

I didn't see the Herring T but I did see the Montana kid shoot 2 FT's.  A rule is a rule.  Utica didn't play bad on O, but the defense wasn'tgood.  Do you realize they shot 52% and we shot 41%.  Like I said, I am just happy to get the hell out with a win.

Later
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 15, 2006, 12:32:42 PM
Finally!
Fisher beats UR at the palestra!
Well, now we know who the king of Roch is!
Now on to conference play!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 15, 2006, 01:33:21 PM
Congratulations to Fisher! Great for the conference.

I just realized that Utica went 3-0 against the Utica area teams this year! It's been a long time since that happened!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 16, 2006, 07:33:38 AM
UCgrad45,
I know that I have been busting on the coverage of UC in the local media lately, but it looks like things may be turning.  WKTV and the OD have given creit where it is finally due.  Now before all of you flip, I am not saying that this a rebirth if the Costello years, but it really takes a lot for this market to buy into UC basketball!
And BTW-Fisher-please build on the great chase-don't look back!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 16, 2006, 11:44:42 AM
Quote from: bamm on January 13, 2006, 06:58:05 PM
I prefer to think he's one of those idiots that dressed like a Pioneer-themed clown at Fisher for the E8 tourney last year.  That would explain his pre-game disappearance as well, as he needs some time to apply all that makeup.

Hey... wait a minute! As a former Utica College Pioneer, I take offense to that "clown" remark. Those guys aren't idiots, they are good fans and they keep the crowd entertained and the energy up.... Not really p-ed off or anything, but those guys aren't clowns, they're good fans!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 16, 2006, 11:58:31 AM
Quote from: budcrew08 on January 16, 2006, 11:44:42 AM
Hey... wait a minute! As a former Utica College Pioneer, I take offense to that "clown" remark. Those guys aren't idiots, they are good fans and they keep the crowd entertained and the energy up.... Not really p-ed off or anything, but those guys aren't clowns, they're good fans!

I rescind my "clown" and "idiot" comment.   ;D  I was making an effort to poke fun at "clearconceit", who had just posted about getting kicked out of the gym (as a fan)... which obviously makes him an idiot.  So, unless either of those characters were him, I take it back.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 16, 2006, 12:18:10 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 16, 2006, 11:58:31 AM
Quote from: budcrew08 on January 16, 2006, 11:44:42 AM
Hey... wait a minute! As a former Utica College Pioneer, I take offense to that "clown" remark. Those guys aren't idiots, they are good fans and they keep the crowd entertained and the energy up.... Not really p-ed off or anything, but those guys aren't clowns, they're good fans!

I rescind my "clown" and "idiot" comment.   ;D  I was making an effort to poke fun at "clearconceit", who had just posted about getting kicked out of the gym (as a fan)... which obviously makes him an idiot.  So, unless either of those characters were him, I take it back.

Thank you Bamm for the respect to rescind your comment. I graduated in 2004, and I used to go to the basketball and hockey games in 2001, 2002, and 2003, and "we" (as a UC Pioneer) had like 5 or 6 guys dressing up in capes and "wife-beaters" (sleeveless t-shirts) and putting on face paint and going nuts at every UC basketball home game.
At the hockey games, they would basically do the same thing, but also sit behind the penalty box at the Aud and harass the $hit out of any opposing players foolish enough to get in the box and the goalie if he sucked.
I don't know Clear (at least I don't think so), but if he is one of those guys... they were awesome guys for Utica College athletics. Definitely sucked that he got tossed from the game at Hartwick for screaming at the ref. As long as the screaming didn't include f*** or s*** , etc., that's a bull$hit call by the ref to toss you out as a fan.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 16, 2006, 12:41:52 PM
The threshold for getting thrown out the game as a fan varies on the environment of the gym.  My guess is that in Utica, where the team has a recent history of being good, there is enough background noise that a few rude comments directed towards the referees will be ignored or not heard.

At Hartwick, on the other hand, I assume the gym is sparcely packed and you could hear a pin drop most of the time.  In that environment, where any rude comment could be heard echoing through the gym, you could really piss a referee off if you're rude.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 16, 2006, 01:34:46 PM
It really does take a lot to get run from a D3 basketball game. My senior year(2003-04), a group of about four or five us would dress up in suits, sit in the front row and give the opposing teams(men and women) a very hard time. Such taunts included, but were not limited to, comments about their weight, looks, implied sexual preference, their girlfriend's "abilities", back hair, haircuts, shooting percentages and other fun facts that could be gathered from their player bios. We also gave the refs ridiculously tough times. One friend of mine would chase the ref almost back to half court when he made a call we disagreed with; he was only told to sit down a couple times.

My point is exactly what Budcrew said, so long as you don't drop a few magic words, you're golden. Also, it helps if you develop some rapport with the refs during pregame warmups. For instance, during the layup lines, walk over to the ref and say something to the effect of "Sir, vertical stripes really do have a slimming effect." Warn him that other team's best player tends to travel on his go-to move(see Jeff Sidney's spin move...sorry Fisher fans, it's true) and their best defender is a hack(whether he is or not), and be on with your business.

If you make yourself a person to the ref, they'll like you more. I can't even tell you how many times, after we said something, the ref looked at us like he was going to explode with laughter but couldn't at the risk of looking unprofessional. The only time I came remotely close to getting run was a Fisher vs Ithaca WOMEN'S game(hey, those games were more heated than Ithaca v Hartwick men's games). This one ref was awful and I made a comment about him having a man-perm. I could tell he didn't enjoy it and the next trip down the court I think he intentionally called something like "3 seconds" on the Bombers. I stood up and said "Sir, you have got..." and he cut me off right there and said to me "Sit down and shut the hell up or you're outta here." Subsequently, the Assistant AD told me to cool it.

Hope this information is helpful. And, Bamm, I agree with you about those two Utica guys last year at Fisher who were thematically dressed as something to the effect of ghetto fabulous superheroes. Should be some fun games this weekend in the league. Good luck.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 16, 2006, 02:43:14 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 16, 2006, 01:34:46 PM
It really does take a lot to get run from a D3 basketball game. My senior year(2003-04), a group of about four or five us would dress up in suits, sit in the front row and give the opposing teams(men and women) a very hard time. Such taunts included, but were not limited to, comments about their weight, looks, implied sexual preference, their girlfriend's "abilities", back hair, haircuts, shooting percentages and other fun facts that could be gathered from their player bios. We also gave the refs ridiculously tough times. One friend of mine would chase the ref almost back to half court when he made a call we disagreed with; he was only told to sit down a couple times.

My point is exactly what Budcrew said, so long as you don't drop a few magic words, you're golden. Also, it helps if you develop some rapport with the refs during pregame warmups. For instance, during the layup lines, walk over to the ref and say something to the effect of "Sir, vertical stripes really do have a slimming effect." Warn him that other team's best player tends to travel on his go-to move(see Jeff Sidney's spin move...sorry Fisher fans, it's true) and their best defender is a hack(whether he is or not), and be on with your business.

If you make yourself a person to the ref, they'll like you more. I can't even tell you how many times, after we said something, the ref looked at us like he was going to explode with laughter but couldn't at the risk of looking unprofessional. The only time I came remotely close to getting run was a Fisher vs Ithaca WOMEN'S game(hey, those games were more heated than Ithaca v Hartwick men's games). This one ref was awful and I made a comment about him having a man-perm. I could tell he didn't enjoy it and the next trip down the court I think he intentionally called something like "3 seconds" on the Bombers. I stood up and said "Sir, you have got..." and he cut me off right there and said to me "Sit down and shut the hell up or you're outta here." Subsequently, the Assistant AD told me to cool it.

Hope this information is helpful. And, Bamm, I agree with you about those two Utica guys last year at Fisher who were thematically dressed as something to the effect of ghetto fabulous superheroes. Should be some fun games this weekend in the league. Good luck.

I know a couple of years ago that the guys who liked to dress up at the games like "ghetto fabulous superheroes" used to both be football players. I don't know if it still is football players (the two I know both graduated), but they are fun to watch.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on January 16, 2006, 07:28:12 PM
Gobombers15  you mentioned Sidney, but who is the hacker on defense?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 16, 2006, 11:09:14 PM
Quote from: ricco1 on January 16, 2006, 07:28:12 PM
Gobombers15 you mentioned Sidney, but who is the hacker on defense?

I was just using that as an example. I don't know if I ever really singled Sidney out, either. He wasn't really that great of a player besides his freshman and senior years. I was just illustrating how to make some friendly conversation with a ref before you commence your verbal assault.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 17, 2006, 12:22:12 AM
well talk about getting thrown out of the game couldn't come at a better time Naz is at fisher for the first time (while students are in session) since the infamous fight. I personally can't wait but my opinion is that we should hold a celebrity boxing fight between all of the cardinal crazies and the D1 drop out from Naz (sorry I can't remember his name)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 17, 2006, 08:30:24 AM
The Naz game is really a non issue.
Take care of biz- and to the crazies- as an alum keep it non violent!
Have fun without all the crap!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 17, 2006, 08:46:55 AM
Quote from: superman57 on January 17, 2006, 12:22:12 AM
I personally can't wait but my opinion is that we should hold a celebrity boxing fight between all of the cardinal crazies and the D1 drop out from Naz (sorry I can't remember his name)

I see you use the term celebrity pretty loosely. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 17, 2006, 12:26:32 PM
Quote from: superman57 on January 17, 2006, 12:22:12 AM
I personally can't wait but my opinion is that we should hold a celebrity boxing fight between all of the cardinal crazies and the D1 drop out from Naz (sorry I can't remember his name)

Lawrence Maroney? Not to be confused with he of the same name that is a running back at Minnesota that will be a mid-1st round selection this year in the NFL Draft.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 17, 2006, 12:28:40 PM
Speaking of that brawl, that has to be one of my top "post patterns" highlights. To come home from an Ithaca game and read about how the fans incited a bench-clearing brawl was too much. And just when I thought things couldn't get any better, Naz players started coming on here to post.

That fight was caused by a lot of different people all acting stupid in different ways. Hopefully there's enough security at this week's game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 17, 2006, 01:12:17 PM
Four non-conference games on the slate tonight:

Geneseo at Elmira (matchup of the conference bottom-feeders)

RIT at D'Youville

Alfred at Penn State-Dubois

Green Mountain at Ithaca

Yes, I laughed when I saw that last one, too. Hey, we're allowed some cupcakes too, the rest of the conference teams have had some. I think Green Mountain is a new program that is taking a beating early on. P-burgh beat them 82-39, ouch.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 17, 2006, 01:50:16 PM
GB15,
I also recall that D3hoops got partially blamed for that mess!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 17, 2006, 02:27:42 PM
everybody BUT the people who actually started the fight got blamed for that fight,  If you go back there are some nice quotes from me about the Crazies.  It should be a good weekend, the entire student body is buzzing about this weekend so it should be a very loud varsity gym
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 17, 2006, 10:11:58 PM
Ithaca does what Ithaca should do against Green Mountain, defeating the Coffeemakers, 96-47. Five Bombers scored in double figures, led by E8 Rookie of the Week Sean Burton who had 15 pts, 5 assts, 4 rebs, 2 stls, and NO turnovers. How refreshing is that for Bomber fans who have had to deal with the erratic Jon Whetstone over the last four years.

Jimmy Bellis poured in 13 points, Brian Joe added 11, while Brian Kern and Dom Scanlon each scored 10, respectively. Nice little tuneup for the Bombers going into this week's game. So long as they don't get swept this weekend(which they shouldn't), they're still in good shape in regards to making the E8 tournament, which I've said all along is their regular season goal. Anything can happen in two days, as was almost shown last year when Ithaca was tied with Fisher at 62 with a minute remaining.

You have no idea how pumped I am for Ithaca to beat 'Wick by 20. Hartwick should rest their starters for the Elmira game on Saturday because that's their best shot this weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 17, 2006, 11:55:43 PM
I'd have rather not even played Green Mountain.  What was the point? The win doesn't mean anything, I'm not even sure it counts as a regional game, and it kills the QOWI for down the line.

One of the coolest things about IC athletics, to me, is how all our teams play the toughest regional competition we can find in all sports.  I think Ken Kutler needed to step up there and tell Coach Mullins, "Sorry, Coach.  Find someone else.  We don't stoop to that here."

Nothing I hate worse in D3 sports than those teams that pile up big W-L records against cupcakes like Green Mountain and friends.  Their fans brag about it and then the team craps out against real competition (i.e. Mount Saint Mary women's team pretty much every single year).  It's gutless and bush league and I wouldn't want to see any Empire 8 school do it, least of all Ithaca.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 18, 2006, 12:14:44 AM
I agree, Caz. Ithaca is unparalleled when it comes to seeking the best competition in all sports. They don't take the Hartwick Basketball-approach and schedule as many cupcakes as possible. I wonder why they did play Green Mountain when they have such a young program.

Ok, time to spark some discussion in here. Here's what I think the E8 post-season awards will look like when it's all said and done. This is NOT based upon performances to date, only what I think it will be at the end of the year.

E8 Player of the Year- Joe Canori, Naz: Far and away the leading scorer. Also gotta give love to a fellow Webster grad.

E8 Rookie of the Year- Anthony Brown, Hartwick: Averaging almost a double-double. More impressive than Cocozziello who seems to be a one-category guy (scoring). Burton and Herring could make a run here if they both keep up their great play of late.

Coach of the Year- Rob Kornaker, Fisher: Though if he loses so much as one game, they'll find a way to give it to someone else...probably whoever's team comes in 2nd, Ithaca or Utica)

E8 1st Team:

Sean O'Brien, Fisher
Quentin Bryant, Alfred
Joe Canori, Naz
Ray Bryant, Utica
Dillon Stein, Alfred (only bc he's one of the only competent bigs in the league, not because he's one of the five best players)

E8 2nd Team:

Shawn Brown, Utica
Jim Bellis, Ithaca
Justin Cichon, Utica
Justin Beigel, Fisher
Micah Owens, Elmira

Honrable Mention

Nick Bennett, Fisher
Willie Lucas, Utica
Ryan McAdam, Naz
Brian Andruskiewicz, Ithaca
Mike McGee, Fisher

Just one guy's guess, I'm headed to bed but I'll give my justifications tomorrow.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 18, 2006, 08:42:50 AM
RIT's up and down trend continues last night, beating D'Youville 116-65. D'Youville is 1-13, maybe they should be the team playing Green Mountain. Only one guy on RIT's roster didn't score last night.

Hopefully this win will at least give RIT some confidence going into the weekend, but we'll see.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 18, 2006, 08:45:08 AM
116 ?!?!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 18, 2006, 08:46:47 AM
Congrats to Bob Bevilacqua, who managed to lead the Tigers in scoring (14 points).... despite playing only 5 minutes!!

He might need to double that on Friday against Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 18, 2006, 10:41:08 AM
Booyah Folks!

I am extremely proud and encouraged by the Hawks so far this conference season. They were given the toughest opening Empire 8 schedule and they have risen to the occasion. They have been extremely competetive so far this season. The Hawks had both Alfred and Utica on the ropes and had the chance to win both games. For the first time since Paul Culpo reign at Hartwick, Rob Kornaker had to coach Fisher inorder to pull out the win. So another words, the Hawks have competed for all but one half so far this conference season.

What is rather impressive is the Hawks have been able to compete at the E8 level with majority of Freshmen and transfer student with no previous E8 experience on the roster. The talent level of the Hawks is dramatically increased. This speaks highly of Paul Culpo'a ability to recruit at the E8 level of basketball, especially given the constraints he is put under by the current nature of Hartwick.

The Hawks will only get better with time and player experience, I am looking forward to the next several years of Hawk basketball. Providing everyone stays at Hartwick for the next several years, Hartwick will once again be an elite E8 and reginal team.

As for this remainder of this season, look for the Hawks to continue to be very competetive and pull of some upsets!

Adios, I have a life outside of D3hoops.com. Do you?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 18, 2006, 11:06:19 AM
Quote from: Mad Hawk on January 18, 2006, 10:41:08 AM
Booyah Folks!

I am extremely proud and encouraged by the Hawks so far this conference season. They were given the toughest opening Empire 8 schedule and they have risen to the occasion. They have been extremely competetive so far this season. The Hawks had both Alfred and Utica on the ropes and had the chance to win both games. For the first time since Paul Culpo reign at Hartwick, Rob Kornaker had to coach Fisher inorder to pull out the win. So another words, the Hawks have competed for all but one half so far this conference season.

What is rather impressive is the Hawks have been able to compete at the E8 level with majority of Freshmen and transfer student with no previous E8 experience on the roster. The talent level of the Hawks is dramatically increased. This speaks highly of Paul Culpo'a ability to recruit at the E8 level of basketball, especially given the constraints he is put under by the current nature of Hartwick.

The Hawks will only get better with time and player experience, I am looking forward to the next several years of Hawk basketball. Providing everyone stays at Hartwick for the next several years, Hartwick will once again be an elite E8 and reginal team.

As for this remainder of this season, look for the Hawks to continue to be very competetive and pull of some upsets!

Adios, I have a life outside of D3hoops.com. Do you?

Do you see where that competiviteness has gotten Hartwick? 0-3 in the Empire 8! No different than before.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 18, 2006, 12:14:42 PM
Quote from: Mad Hawk on January 18, 2006, 10:41:08 AM

Adios, I have a life outside of D3hoops.com. Do you?

This coming from the guy who once admitted he thinks of Hartwick Hawks basketball as he lays in bed at night...undoubtedly alone.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 18, 2006, 02:13:40 PM
You know Hawk, just when I am ready to root for you, you talk too much.  I do think you can beat Ithaca and Elmira and it is obvious that you have gotten under the skin of most of the posters here, especially the Ithaca crew.  I mean they can't ever give you any props... but then you go on here and go nuts.  Try to win a game or 2 in the league will you!
As for your game versus Ithaca (which has taken on giant implications due to gobombers vow to never post again if Hartwick beats Ithaca) I almost want to see it more than Utica this weekend.
My predictions are 2 easy games for Utica this weekend.
30 versus Elmira
20 versus Ithaca



Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 18, 2006, 03:44:41 PM
Hawk,
Is there anything else to say other than Hartwick is competitive- ooooo look out!
You were sasying early in the season that they were going to be force to be reckoned with.  All they are is a FARCE!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 18, 2006, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on January 18, 2006, 02:13:40 PM
You know Hawk, just when I am ready to root for you, you talk too much. I do think you can beat Ithaca and Elmira and it is obvious that you have gotten under the skin of most of the posters here, especially the Ithaca crew. I mean they can't ever give you any props... but then you go on here and go nuts. Try to win a game or 2 in the league will you!
As for your game versus Ithaca (which has taken on giant implications due to gobombers vow to never post again if Hartwick beats Ithaca) I almost want to see it more than Utica this weekend.
My predictions are 2 easy games for Utica this weekend.
30 versus Elmira
20 versus Ithaca



Peace

Clear, I believed I posted something to the effect that I'd never post again if either Hartwick won more than "5 or 6 games in conference" as one person predicted or if Hartwick made the E8 tourney as MadHawk implied. If you can find where I said otherwise, feel free to show me and I'd admit my mistake, but I still stand by my assertion that the Bombers should win that game by anywhere from 9-15 points. It's just a bad matchup for Hartwick.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on January 18, 2006, 05:11:56 PM
Saying a team is 'competitive' is like saying a girl has 'a nice personality.'

And that guy is saying it about his own team. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 18, 2006, 07:40:57 PM
big weekend for Fisher with 2 crosstown rivals in as many days. Hopefully the Cardinals can take care of business and come away with 2 wins...

Can we put some stuff to bed...Mad hawk, Hartwick is improved but still not very good...Clear, Utica is a good team, not 30 points better than anyone in the conference, and definatly not 20 better than Ithaca. When you are struggling to beat Hartwick, you really have to take a break on the talk of winning by 20-30.

Hopefully that will be the last that we hear about it....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hoopfan17 on January 18, 2006, 09:56:03 PM
I hope Hartwick beats Ithaca this weekend so gobombers can get off his high horse and realize that Ithaca just isn't that good.  I don't see where you think it's a bad match up for Hartwick, maybe you can explain it to me?  I've been reading all the posts trying to keep my mouth shut, but I realized that everytime one of you guys is playing Hartwick I know the night before the game you are sitting in your rooms doing a little good luck dance and pray.  I'm waiting for Hartwick to win, not so much because I think they deserve it, but more because I can't wait to read these damn posts!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 18, 2006, 11:20:33 PM
Hoopfan, I need to get off my high horse? Where did I say the Bombers are a good team? Why let the truth get in the way of your story, right? I've said all along the Bombers are an average team whose only goal should be to make the E8 tourney and hope to pull an upset and sneak into the NCAA's.

Or am I on my "high horse" because I don't think Hartwick is that good? Well, their 0-3 conference record tends to agree with me. Or maybe I'm on a high horse because I remind SOME of the Utica fans that they can't talk trash when they haven't beaten anyone on the road in years. Or maybe you just don't like people who call it as they see it.

In the words of the immortal Puff Daddy/P-Diddy/Diddy, "you ain't gotta like me/you just mad cuz I tell it how it is/and you tell it how it might be."

Sorry about that, living in this "Chocolate City" is really getting to me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 19, 2006, 07:43:30 AM
GB15 - you live in Hershery P.a.?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 19, 2006, 09:28:07 AM
Booyah Folks!

It's trivia Thursday.

What Empire 8 team has been the only team to lose to Hartwick in the past two seasons?

A. Fisher
B. Elmira
C. Utica
D. Alfred
E. Nazareth
F. RIT
E. Ithaca
















Answer: E (What is Ithaca)

Folks, thanks for playing triva by MadHawk. Have a nice day!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 19, 2006, 09:52:54 AM
Quote from: Mad Hawk on January 19, 2006, 09:28:07 AM
Booyah Folks!

It's trivia Thursday.

What Empire 8 team has been the only team to lose to Hartwick in the past two seasons?

A. Fisher
B. Elmira
C. Utica
D. Alfred
E. Nazareth
F. RIT
E. Ithaca

Answer: E (What is Ithaca)

Folks, thanks for playing triva by MadHawk. Have a nice day!


That two E's for answers had to be a joke, right? Or is it a case of knowing your alphabet up to F and having to go back around?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 19, 2006, 09:56:00 AM
Budcrew,
Don't worry, I'm sure that his gpa is good enough to keep hime around for at least 1 more semester! :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 19, 2006, 10:14:53 AM
Booyah Folks!  ---The Corrected Version---

It's trivia Thursday.

What Empire 8 team has been the only team to lose to Hartwick in the past two seasons?

A. Fisher
B. Elmira
C. Utica
D. Alfred
E. Nazareth
F. RIT
G. Ithaca
















Answer: G (What is Ithaca)

Folks, thanks for playing triva by MadHawk. Have a nice day!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 19, 2006, 10:22:22 AM
Hey mad-
Don't you get tired of talking like Stuart Scott?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 19, 2006, 10:23:01 AM
*funky 70's music*
*cheesy announcer radio voice*
It's time for another edition of Trivia Thursday! Here's your host, budcrew08!

Welcome to Trivia Thursday, the game show admired by D3 hoops fans all over the world!

Here's today's trivia question:

What is Hartwick's Empire 8 conference record in the last 4 seasons (including the start of this one)?

A. 28-16
B. 22-22
C. 14-30
D. 10-34
E. 5-39















If you guessed E. you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! *bells and whistles go off*
If you guessed A or B, you are either delusional or Mad Hawk, although I'm not sure there's much of a difference.


*funky 70s music*
That's all the time we have today! Thanks for playing along with TRIVIA THURSDAY!
*music-outro* ba-ba- baba- ba

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 19, 2006, 11:04:30 AM
MadHawk, Budcrew, I'd like to thank you both for the massive amount of whitespace you both have been using in your messages, the scroll-button on my mouse just wasn't getting it's proper amount of exercise.

As for the games this weekend, it will take a hurculean effort by Naz or RIT to defeat Fisher at home.  Fisher has consecutive win streaks of 5 over both teams, although it's been 3 full seasons since Naz beat them (Fisher took 4 games from RIT last year alone).  For the Tigers to win they'll have to have a great shooting night, something they have been unable to do at Fisher.

Look for Alfred to take care of Naz on Friday night.  Ithaca will squeak by Hartwick as well.  Utica/Ithaca will probably be a better game at the Bulb, and I'll take Utica by 8-10.

That leaves us with the game we've been waiting for all season... The Mighty Hartwick Hawks looking for their signature win against those feisty Elmira Soaring Eagles.  Should be riveting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 19, 2006, 11:08:30 AM
Elmira - Hartwick
Wow it doesn't get any better than that!

Sorta like a Monday night game between the Arizona Cards and the Detroit Lions!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 19, 2006, 12:08:38 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 19, 2006, 11:04:30 AM
MadHawk, Budcrew, I'd like to thank you both for the massive amount of whitespace you both have been using in your messages, the scroll-button on my mouse just wasn't getting it's proper amount of exercise.

As for the games this weekend, it will take a hurculean effort by Naz or RIT to defeat Fisher at home.  Fisher has consecutive win streaks of 5 over both teams, although it's been 3 full seasons since Naz beat them (Fisher took 4 games from RIT last year alone).  For the Tigers to win they'll have to have a great shooting night, something they have been unable to do at Fisher.

Look for Alfred to take care of Naz on Friday night.  Ithaca will squeak by Hartwick as well.  Utica/Ithaca will probably be a better game at the Bulb, and I'll take Utica by 8-10.

That leaves us with the game we've been waiting for all season... The Mighty Hartwick Hawks looking for their signature win against those feisty Elmira Soaring Eagles.  Should be riveting.

Bamm, that was part of my goof on Mad Hawk's post.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 19, 2006, 12:21:19 PM
Fisheralum, New Orleans is now "chocolate city" according to Mayor Nagin. I'm surprised you didn't pick up on that one, it's been all over the news lately. A democrat hasn't worked this hard to blow his campaign since...John Kerry.

In continuing my quest to pick the score of a game perfectly, here are my predictions for this weekend (home team in CAPS):

Friday
FISHER over Rit, 82-65.
ALFRED over Naz, 80-69.
Ithaca over HARTWICK, 66-52.
UTICA over Elmira, 81-57.

Saturday
FISHER over Naz, 84-62
Rit over ALFRED, 67-65 *upset special
Elmira over HARTWICK, 69-68
UTICA over Ithaca, 70-63

I can't wait for Clear to come on here and talk junk only to realize I picked Utica to win, anyways. Fisher should handle its two opponents this weekend in the friendly confines of Varsity Gym. I'm fine with a split this weekend for the Bombers. The way I see it, if Ithaca gets 3 road wins in the conference, they're virtually guaranteed to make the E8 tourney. A win at Hartwick will  put them at 2-0 on the road in conference.

Right now, I think it's a battle between Naz/Alfred/RIT for the 4th seed in the tourney. Alfred is probably the favorite, but they always do something to screw things up for themselves. Alfred is very talented but I'm not sure if it's the fact that they're not well-coached or they don't play well together as a team that always ends up being their downfall. They'll really be behind the 8-ball if they don't sweep this weekend, being 1-3 with five more games against Fisher/Utica/Ithaca.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 19, 2006, 12:32:11 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 19, 2006, 12:21:19 PM
Fisheralum, New Orleans is now "chocolate city" according to Mayor Nagin. I'm surprised you didn't pick up on that one, it's been all over the news lately. A democrat hasn't worked this hard to blow his campaign since...John Kerry.

In continuing my quest to pick the score of a game perfectly, here are my predictions for this weekend (home team in CAPS):

Friday
FISHER over Rit, 82-65.
ALFRED over Naz, 80-69.
Ithaca over HARTWICK, 66-52.
UTICA over Elmira, 81-57.

Saturday
FISHER over Naz, 84-62
Rit over ALFRED, 67-65 *upset special
Elmira over HARTWICK, 69-68
UTICA over Ithaca, 70-63

I can't wait for Clear to come on here and talk junk only to realize I picked Utica to win, anyways. Fisher should handle its two opponents this weekend in the friendly confines of Varsity Gym. I'm fine with a split this weekend for the Bombers. The way I see it, if Ithaca gets 3 road wins in the conference, they're virtually guaranteed to make the E8 tourney. A win at Hartwick will  put them at 2-0 on the road in conference.

Right now, I think it's a battle between Naz/Alfred/RIT for the 4th seed in the tourney. Alfred is probably the favorite, but they always do something to screw things up for themselves. Alfred is very talented but I'm not sure if it's the fact that they're not well-coached or they don't play well together as a team that always ends up being their downfall. They'll really be behind the 8-ball if they don't sweep this weekend, being 1-3 with five more games against Fisher/Utica/Ithaca.



I think that's a good pick on the Utica/Ithaca game, the score as well. It should be pretty close (say tied or within 2 with three minutes to go, but Utica pulls away a bit in the end.)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 19, 2006, 12:56:59 PM
Budcrew --
Quote from: budcrew08 on January 19, 2006, 12:08:38 PM
Bamm, that was part of my goof on Mad Hawk's post.

I know.  Don't take me too seriously, and please continue with the rips on MadHawk.   :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 19, 2006, 01:40:34 PM
GB15,
I knew about NO I was goofing around!
Good picks BTW!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 19, 2006, 03:11:13 PM
Guys get a grip.  I am a passionate fane and hopeful too.  I think we are going to win 2 easy games this week.  We shall see.

GBomber you may be right, I don't remember exactly what you said, but if Hartwick did beat you guys it would be so exciting to see Mad Hawk go crazy and no matter what you say, I know it would be killing you.  Plus it would put them one win closer to the 5 mark that you have clearly put out there.

Good luck this weekend to everyone except those teams playing Utica.

Later
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tecmobowler on January 19, 2006, 05:01:57 PM
Mayor Nagin is the worst politician I have ever seen. Brutal.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 19, 2006, 05:09:53 PM
"God must be angry with New Orleans"
HUH!
This is your mayor?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 19, 2006, 06:29:09 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 19, 2006, 12:21:19 PM
Fisheralum, New Orleans is now "chocolate city" according to Mayor Nagin. I'm surprised you didn't pick up on that one, it's been all over the news lately. A democrat hasn't worked this hard to blow his campaign since...John Kerry.

In continuing my quest to pick the score of a game perfectly, here are my predictions for this weekend (home team in CAPS):

Friday
FISHER over Rit, 82-65.
ALFRED over Naz, 80-69.
Ithaca over HARTWICK, 66-52.
UTICA over Elmira, 81-57.

Saturday
FISHER over Naz, 84-62
Rit over ALFRED, 67-65 *upset special
Elmira over HARTWICK, 69-68
UTICA over Ithaca, 70-63

I can't wait for Clear to come on here and talk junk only to realize I picked Utica to win, anyways. Fisher should handle its two opponents this weekend in the friendly confines of Varsity Gym. I'm fine with a split this weekend for the Bombers. The way I see it, if Ithaca gets 3 road wins in the conference, they're virtually guaranteed to make the E8 tourney. A win at Hartwick will  put them at 2-0 on the road in conference.

Right now, I think it's a battle between Naz/Alfred/RIT for the 4th seed in the tourney. Alfred is probably the favorite, but they always do something to screw things up for themselves. Alfred is very talented but I'm not sure if it's the fact that they're not well-coached or they don't play well together as a team that always ends up being their downfall. They'll really be behind the 8-ball if they don't sweep this weekend, being 1-3 with five more games against Fisher/Utica/Ithaca.



I like most of your picks. However, I think Hartwick will beat Elmira by 9 in a low scoring affair. It should be another fun weekend of conference play.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 19, 2006, 08:37:02 PM
big news for fisher's home court http://www.sjfc.edu/athletics/press_releases/MBK01-19-06.pdf
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 19, 2006, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: tecmobowler on January 19, 2006, 05:01:57 PM
Mayor Nagin is the worst politician I have ever seen. Brutal.

I agree. He'll likely still win re-election because New Orleans is such a poor city. That, of course, is provided a large part of his constituency returns to New Orleans, as the poorer sections of the city really took it on the chin. But what do I know, I'm just one of those "white people from Uptown" as he refers to us as.

He admitted that during his now infamous "chocolate city" speech where he said Katrina was God's way of punishing the black population for fighting with each other, that he "sometimes forgets" that he's not talking to only the 50 or so people gathered at City Hall. He actually didn't realize that the cameras there would take this message to more people than just the ones there at the speech. He really is an idiot.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 20, 2006, 07:02:24 AM
Didn't I say that earlier? :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 20, 2006, 02:50:37 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on January 19, 2006, 03:11:13 PM

GBomber you may be right, I don't remember exactly what you said, but if Hartwick did beat you guys it would be so exciting to see Mad Hawk go crazy and no matter what you say, I know it would be killing you. Plus it would put them one win closer to the 5 mark that you have clearly put out there.

Good luck this weekend to everyone except those teams playing Utica.

I don't know if seeing Mad Hawk would be "exciting." I think the word "nauseating" does come to mind, though. Would it bother me if Ithaca lost to Hartwick? Of course. However, it would be more bothersome in the sense that it would be a sad testament to Ithaca's ability to win away from The Bulb, even against obviously inferior teams. If they do lose, I'll drown my sorrows in about 14 Hand Grenades in the Quarter tonight. I don't think that's going to happen, though. It's really a case of two teams whose seasons are heading in opposite directions right now.

We all know Mad Hawk is going to talk some smack if Hartwick leads at all in this game. We also know he's going to have some stupid excuse ready. Something to the effect of "the talent levels were similar, Hartwick may have even had more, but the Bombers had more experience and the better team lost tonight." I'm so used to his posts at this point, that will be the crux of it.

I'd have to give "Game of the Week" status to Saturday's Ithaca @ Utica game, though I must admit that I think RIT @ Alfred is the biggest in terms of who has the inside track at the #4 seed.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 20, 2006, 05:19:11 PM
For once I have to disagree with you when ever you put Fisher and Naz into a gym it gets intresting and merits game  of the week no matter how much better fisher is
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 20, 2006, 06:41:28 PM
I don't think our game with Itahca will be that close.  It is Fisher and us in a 2 horse race.
As for Alfred Rit being the game I don't see it.  RIT is not very good!  This league has 2 legit teams.  Us and Fisher.

Gotta go see us Hang a 50 pt wallop on Elmira.

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 20, 2006, 07:23:23 PM
Quote from: superman57 on January 20, 2006, 05:19:11 PM
For once I have to disagree with you when ever you put Fisher and Naz into a gym it gets intresting and merits game of the week no matter how much better fisher is

I agree with you in that if I could pick one game I'd want to attend this weekend, it would be that one based purely on the atmosphere surrounding the game. Ok, and to be honest, to hopefully see someone get decked. It doesn't matter if it's a fan or player or assistant coach.

I made my comment based on the game with the two most talented teams on the same floor(Ithaca v Utica) and the game with the most implications(RIT v. Alfred). I'm headed out now, hopefully I don't come home to a Bomber L to Hartwick. I'd never live that down.

LET'S GO BOMBERS!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 20, 2006, 09:58:07 PM
Fisher takes care of RIT big time, it was never really a game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 20, 2006, 10:25:17 PM
Surprising absolutely nobody, Utica wastes the Elmira Crawling Eagles 86-46.  Fisher, as noted above by Superman57, keeps pace with a 76-55 home win over RIT.

Still awaiting finals from Naz-Alfred and IC-Hartwick.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 20, 2006, 10:30:22 PM
According to E8.com, Naz beats Alfred 89-74.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 20, 2006, 10:53:09 PM
Ithica 67 Hartwick 58 according to E8.com.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 20, 2006, 10:57:11 PM
Bombers win 67-58.  21 points for Jim Bellis.  No boxscore to peruse yet, but that was  A LOT closer than I wanted it/thought it was going to be.  I'll take it though.

Despite the identical winless records for 'Wick and EC, Mad Hawk evidently is right about the whole competitiveness thing.  Hartwick is playing teams the whole 40 minutes while Elmira, in typical Elmira fashion, doesn't appear to give a damn.  They might go winless this year; I'm calling the Hartwick win tomorrow right now.

Tomorrow's Ithaca-Utica clash will reveal a lot about where these two stand.  Sorry but this has to be the mythical E8 Game of the Day over Fisher undoubtedly whomping Naz, rivalry or no.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 21, 2006, 12:02:29 AM
Caz, the Ithaca game wasn't as close as it looked. Look at the play-by-play at the bottom of the box score, Ithaca had a double-digit lead the entire 2nd half. The Bombers were leading 59-41 with 2:45 remaining. Tonight's game was the very definition of a "comfortable win." I'm sure MadHawk will come in here and do his best to portray this is a close game, when that was not the case at all.

I wish I could say the IC/UC game tomorrow is important, but don't we all know that those two teams are gonna be the #2 vs #3 game at Fisher during E8 tourney weekend? What's really at stake here besides which team is going to wear the home uniforms on a neutral court (even if that's undecided because IC will beat Utica in The Bulb).

Surprise of the Night: Naz pasting Alfred by 15 at  Alfred. Wow. It looks like the loser of the RIT/Alfred game will be in big trouble. Picture this: If Naz loses at Fisher(likely), Hartwick beats Elmira(probable) and RIT knocks off Alfred(within the realm of possibility), then Hartwick will be tied for the #4 seed. Look out for those Hawks!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 21, 2006, 02:09:47 AM
My apologies for not keeping up with the conversation.

Yes, indeed, D3hoops.com was blamed in the local newspaper for the fan behavior at that game. I had a less-than-pleasant e-mail exchange with the reporter afterwards about blaming the messenger.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 21, 2006, 09:06:33 AM
Booyah Folks

Last night was "Bad Officiating Night" at Binder Gynasium on the Hartwick College Campus

I have NEVER spectated a collegiate basketball contest as poorly officiated as last nights Hartwick vs. Ithaca game.

The pathetic officiating crew was:
James Toomey
Gary Nicoll
Timothy Harris

First off, I question whether or not these three clowns are actually collegiate officials . It really seemed they came from the local Holiday Inn Express or the Russian School  of Judging. I would love to know what these guys scored on their officiating certification tests.

I think it if safe to say that these officials never had control of the game. The job of the officials is to make sure the game is in control and no team gets the advantage by fouling. Well, last nights officials did the exact opposite.  If it wasn't for some bad calls against Ithaca, I would have accused Ithaca of paying off the officials.

There were 225 spectators at last nights game, which the officials were clearly overwhelmed with. It is clear the fans allowed the fans to get under their skin and blow the game.

Paul Culpo, had two marginal technicals called against him and he was ejected. Which means he will not be coaching today against Elmira.

I sure hope Chuck Mitrano has the oppourtunity to watch the tape of the game and see the horrific officiating that took place.

It is a shame bad officating dictated the game.

I will save the actual Hartwick/Ithaca game analysis for a later post. I don't like posting on game days, however, last night's pathetic officiating need to be addressed immediately.

Ciao for now
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 21, 2006, 09:55:01 AM
C'mon Madhawk, just give Ithaca their due. They'd beat Hartick handily if they played them anywhere. Sure, the officials may have been bad, but don't assume that was the difference in the game. Ithaca had an 18-point lead with under 3 minutes to play; that's not officiating. It wouldn't have even been that close if Ithaca could shoot FT's(16-29 from the stripe).

Instead of complaining about the officials, maybe you should blame your defense for allowing IC to shoot 50% from the field. Or maybe you should blame your shooters for shooting under 40% from the field. Or maybe you can point to the fact you couldn't stop Ithaca's one consistent scoring threat.

If it was a back-and-forth game, your complaint about officiating would have more validity. We've talked about D3 refs in this room before so you should know what to expect going into it. Ithaca's a significantly better team than 'Wick is right now. Truth.

However, IC needs to shoot FT's better if they want a chance today. I have a feeling Ithaca will be gunning some 3's today so hopefully they're falling. I still think Utica wins by 5-8 points.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 21, 2006, 11:48:52 AM
Hey madhawk-
C'mon now- spectated?
I "spectate" you won't be at wick long with that writing style!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 21, 2006, 01:05:10 PM
As predicted we pummeled Elmira.  Ithaca's next!  Looking forward to establishing who is the 2nd place team today.  I figure we win by 15-20 pts.

Guys take it easy on MadHawk, to his credit while he did cry about the refs he didn't say that Ithaca wasn't the better team etc.  I think that is progress for him.
Plus can you imagine how nervous he is today?  I mean if they lose today he may never come back to this board.
After watching Elmira yesterday they are really bad.  The Hawks are favored today.

Later
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 21, 2006, 01:45:18 PM
Anyone at the game have any idea what the reason for the technical called on RIT was?  It occured after RIT forward Fran Snyder was fouled on a drive and was headed to the line.  Immediately after the foul the buzzer blew a few times erratically, the refs huddled up, and the next thing I saw was Sean O'Brien shooting free throws.  The noise in the crowd made it impossible to hear the PA announcer where I was at.  Anyone?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 21, 2006, 05:39:38 PM
If I understand right, the Utica game will not be played at Utica College today. There is a power outage on campus. It will be played at Suny IT.

A "home" game at Suny IT for UC is almost like Naz playing a "home" game at Fisher.


I am unable to attend the game today because I had surgery. Sounds like I may not be able to get it on the radio either.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 21, 2006, 05:57:48 PM
First off Bamm I was at the game too and couldn't figure out who it was called on.  Next congrats to Naz for sneaking one out 62-60.  Fisher did not play well.  But the game winning basket was scored with no time remaining.  I hope that the league will look at the tape and discipline the referee who made the call.  Fisher had the chance to win, but McSweeny could not hit two foulshots with 8 seconds left.  So on that note congrats to Naz on an amazing game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 21, 2006, 06:29:23 PM
Wow, what got into Naz this weekend? Beating Alfred on the road by 15 and upsetting Fisher in Varsity Gym. Looks like we know who will be the fourth team in the E8 Tourney.

Hartwick wins!! The Hawks beat Elmira at home today, 65-54. It's Hartwick's second win in the last three years.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on January 21, 2006, 06:41:32 PM
Utica beat Ithaca by 13 I believe it ended up being.  The change of location makes stats unavailable but UC definitely won by double digits.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 21, 2006, 06:49:22 PM
RIT over Alfred 79-76 in OT according to the Empire 8 site. No box score at either school's site right now.

Naz over SJF...wow. Naz has some talented players, but I never would have guessed that would happen, at least at SJF.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 21, 2006, 06:50:24 PM
first off I was looking at the tape and it did not go in. second off read an entire post before you start getting all glorious, the first thing I said was Naz deserved to win that game, so get a grip
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cards23 on January 21, 2006, 06:53:41 PM
I have been following the posts and decided to answer a few of your questions for you.

About the technical fould at Fisher vs RIT.  It was given to RIT because there was no #23 in the official scorebook. They had him in as #40 along with RIT's book.  Thye forgot to change his number in the book with there home and away jerseys.

I was at the Fisher vs Naz game as well and I believe that the officials got the call right and counted the basket.  Congrats to Naz on a good win.  Thye played a good game and Fisher didn't really show up and play.  If you would have told me before the game that Caswell Smith would play only five minutes (injury) and that Bennett would hold Canori to only four points.  I would have almost gaurenteed a Fisher win but Naz played good defense and Fisher turned the ball over to many times.  Good weekend for Naz.  Fisher should be able to rebound and beat Alfred on Tuesday.  
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 21, 2006, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: lileyes on January 21, 2006, 06:41:32 PM
Utica beat Ithaca by 13 I believe it ended up being. The change of location makes stats unavailable but UC definitely won by double digits.

That's fine. Ithaca will probably beat them by the same amount in Ithaca, just like they do every year. The Bombers always lose at Utica then handle them in Ithaca. Good win for Utica, though.

As to Clear's statement about "we'll find out who the real 2nd place team is today," who gave you the right to unilaterally decide it would be today's game that decided that. What about the Utica/Ithaca game at The Bulb in February. Maybe that's the game to determine 2nd place.

Like I said before, today's Ithaca/Utica game is only important in determing who would likely wear the home unis at the E8 tourney when Ithaca plays Utica. I'm just happy that game will be in Rochester, because we all know how the Pioneers play in The Land of Garbage Plates.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on January 21, 2006, 07:18:49 PM
first off, let me congratulate Nazareth on the win. I thought there was no chance in the world that they would win with Canori being put in a straight jacket by the Defense by Nick Bennett and Caswell Smith hurting his ankle. Don't know if it was cramps or an ankle injury. The key to the game was free throw shooting and Fisher couldn't put Naz away when they had the chance. As to whether the final shot was good, it doesn't matter now. There is still a LONG LONG way to go in the EMPIRE 8 season and both teams play one more time on the final game of the season. It was a great game. Some of the post game reaction by the Naz players was very disconcerning. They were giving the finger to the Fisher Fans and throwing their jerseys. I did go to Fisher but those things should not happen at a basketball and everyone else here would agree with me on that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 21, 2006, 08:45:43 PM
I do have to agree with you on the after game celebration.  There is always a line and this one time Naz did not know how to win elequently.  I was sitting next to a girl who went to high school with the kid who was giving everybody the middle finger, She was really upset about it.  During the whole game there were a few naz fans who were giving the fisher student section different types of obscence gestures.  Now on that note the Fisher student section has never and will never be a nice place to sit.  But they do have respect and a tight leash, as in when a bull**** chant started the AD was right there telling us to cut it out.  I really wish people in all sorts of sports new how to win.  This was a great game to watch, right down to the very end, but we need to know how to celebrate and how to not.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 21, 2006, 11:19:10 PM
I guess the Utica game was played at Mohawk Valley CC. The womens game was played at SUNY IT.

Another crazy weekend of conference play in the books.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 21, 2006, 11:29:10 PM
GB15 -  Be careful about the "we all know who the 4th team will be" conclusion.  RIT has only lost to Ithaca and Fisher, and although it was out of conference schedule, they beat Naz.  Alfred has dug their hole pretty deep at this point (losses at home to Naz and RIT), so I'm thinking the winner of the RIT/Naz series is that 4 seed.  First game is at RIT on Tuesday.

I'm not quite ready to anoint Ithaca the 3 seed yet, either.  They've gotten off to a solid start, but their real test comes during a 5 game stretch in February ( @Naz, @RIT, @Alfred, @Fisher, Utica ).  They'll need a couple wins out of that group to grab the 3 seed, I think.

As to the Naz/Fisher game -- wow.  Last night I had a conversation with Tigerfan2 and we both agreed that Naz had a great shot at beating Fisher next year, but neither of us ever considered the possibility that there would be an upset this season. 

And as to the "rude gesturing"... shouldn't that be cause for celebration?  Relative to the bench-clearing brawls, I mean? 

A few of the kids in the Fisher student section are annoying enough that they deserve to be harassed after the Cards go down anyway.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bearseh on January 22, 2006, 03:05:10 AM
Quote from: bamm on January 21, 2006, 11:29:10 PM

A few of the kids in the Fisher student section are annoying enough that they deserve to be harassed after the Cards go down anyway.



Indeed. Only time last year I heard fans loudly boo the opponent coming out for pre-game were the Fisher fans in Amherst. That being said, the harrassment should never come from players.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 22, 2006, 04:50:08 AM
Quote from: superman57 on January 21, 2006, 08:45:43 PM
I do have to agree with you on the after game celebration. There is always a line and this one time Naz did not know how to win elequently. I was sitting next to a girl who went to high school with the kid who was giving everybody the middle finger, She was really upset about it. During the whole game there were a few naz fans who were giving the fisher student section different types of obscence gestures. Now on that note the Fisher student section has never and will never be a nice place to sit. But they do have respect and a tight leash, as in when a bull**** chant started the AD was right there telling us to cut it out. I really wish people in all sorts of sports new how to win. This was a great game to watch, right down to the very end, but we need to know how to celebrate and how to not.

Superman, I like you. I think you're a level-headed Fisher poster who usually makes good points. However, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you about how "respectful" the Cardinal Crazies are. On more than one occasion I have heard several people scream racial epithets within earshot of security or administrators. For instance, a couple of years ago when Ithaca was visiting Fisher and a section of the Crazies began an "Osama Bin Laden" chant for Ithaca player Tariq Ahmad; no doubt referring to his ethnicity. Later that same year in the E8 tourney, I overheard Crazies yelling "Milato cookie" and "Halfrican" at Jon Whetstone. I understand this only SOME of this group and may not be representative of all the student fans, but don't play this off like Fisher fans are Angels. They basically incited a brawl two years ago!

I give credit to the Crazies for making Fisher such a tough place to play. I'm sure most D3 teams would love to have the atmosphere Fisher does. That still does not change the fact that many of the "Crazies" are there to do nothing more than belittle opponents and take potshots at opposing players.

Was the Naz kid wrong for flicking off the Fisher student section? Absolutely. Will he hear about it the next time these two teams play? Definitely. Did his true colors come shining through there? Yes. But I'll be honest, assuming what those guys undoubtedly heard from the student section today, I'm not sure I would have had the self-control to stop myself from doing the same thing.

That's my stance on that issue. In other news, looks like Brian Joe didn't play for Ithaca today. I hope he isn't injured too badly.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 22, 2006, 08:29:04 AM
Um, I know I went out last night - but did I read the paper wrong- Fisher lost?
Ouch!
That's going to hurt!
Oh, well at least it wasn't Georgetown!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 22, 2006, 09:47:19 AM
GBomber you are right!  We shouldn't take for granted who will be second because we still could be 1st and the tourny may very well be in Utica baby.  We absolutely dominated you yesterday.  The score wasn't as close as it looked.  And we did it on a neutral floor.  Ray Bryant as I have stated earlier is the best player in the league.  Everybody keeps talking about Cichon but Bryant is our best player and the best player in the league.  He is a man amongst boys.  Just ask your Ithaca players - they had no way of stopping him.
Than you NAZ WHOOOOOHOOOOO - now it is back to even.

And MadHawk - congrats to you too!  Hey with a few more wins people will stop picking on you!!!!!!!

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 22, 2006, 11:05:27 AM
Wow, just got back from Rochester and what a dissapointing end to the weekend.

After taking care of the South Henrietta Institute of Technology, to lose to Naz like that...damn.

It was a great game, but Fisher didn't play very well. Didn't shoot the ball well at all, and really went away from what was working (Mcsweeny, and Beigle) for a long stretch in the 2nd half.
Can't take anything away from Naz, they played well and hit the shots that they needed to.
Still not to worried, Fisher should still win the league. The RIT/Naz weekend is always a really tough one. That is 2 pretty intense games in less than 24 hours.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on January 22, 2006, 11:13:16 AM
McSweeney is the convienent scapegoat for missing the 2 FT's, but Fisher couldn't shoot from the line all night. And #50 from Naz (don't know his name off hand, although I probably should from how many times HE was at the line) killed us, especially from the line....automatic.

The only positive that came from that game is how much Bennett and Co. shut down Canori.....1-12 for 4 points (all on one play)??? Yuck.

I agree with this...
Quote from: bamm on January 21, 2006, 11:29:10 PM
Naz had a great shot at beating Fisher next year, but neither of us ever considered the possibility that there would be an upset this season.
I even had told the people I was with that Naz was much improved and would probably even give us a fight....but didn't see THIS coming.

And as far as the T against RIT....I saw the ref actually make the call, but like everyone else, didn't know who it was actually against.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on January 22, 2006, 11:44:19 AM
Many people talk about how the Fisher or Naz fans behave, but I can tell you right now I've never seen a better fan base for any of the other schools in he E-8. You couldn't here your self think. It was great! Yes Bennett did do a great job on Canori. A matter of fact the four points Canori got came when another player was covering him. I can't wait for the game at Naz. Fisher just took Naz to lightly next time Fisher should take it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 22, 2006, 12:47:17 PM
GB15, I'm refering to the Crazies post the brawl, because before the brawl they were out of control, then after the brawl when admistration took moore control they have gotten better.  I mean Bamm was at the game on friday, while there are a few who could be called annoying they never crossed a line of being disrespective to the other team,
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 22, 2006, 01:18:27 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on January 22, 2006, 09:47:19 AM
GBomber you are right! We shouldn't take for granted who will be second because we still could be 1st and the tourny may very well be in Utica baby. We absolutely dominated you yesterday. The score wasn't as close as it looked. And we did it on a neutral floor. Ray Bryant as I have stated earlier is the best player in the league. Everybody keeps talking about Cichon but Bryant is our best player and the best player in the league. He is a man amongst boys. Just ask your Ithaca players - they had no way of stopping him.
Than you NAZ WHOOOOOHOOOOO - now it is back to even.

And MadHawk - congrats to you too! Hey with a few more wins people will stop picking on you!!!!!!!

Peace

Wait, Utica as the top seed? What did I miss here? Doesn't that first require Utica to be able to beat Fisher, something it's obvious they can't do? And let's not put the cart before the horse, I'm not even sure Utica can beat the "average" teams in the league on the road. The way Naz is playing right now, next Friday night may be a tough game for the Pioneers. On Saturday, Utica plays at RIT, somewhere they haven't won since the Clinton administration. I'd be very surprised if Utica goes 2-0 next weekend.

As for your comments about the Ithaca game, talk all you want. Utica always beats the Bombers by double digits in Utica, then Ithaca returns the favor(usually by more points) when the game is at Ithaca. How can you say the game wasn't "as close as it looked?" It was 54-47 with 6 minutes to go. If anything, doesn't that suggest it was CLOSER than it looked. Ithaca also played without its top 3-point shooter. Not saying that would have been the difference, but it certainly woulda made things closer. I'm pumped to see if Utica can actually beat a competent team on the road this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 22, 2006, 05:33:12 PM
A tough weekend for my Saxons. Dropping games to Naz and RIT (OT) at McLane. And THEN traveling to Fisher on Tuesday? OUCH! Let's hope the Saxons can pull themselves together to give Fisher a game.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 22, 2006, 06:26:55 PM
I hope that Fisher come to play against Alfred, if they do then I don't see much of a chance for Alfred, but if fisher plays how they did against Naz then this could be a long season
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 22, 2006, 08:40:16 PM
"Wait, Utica as the top seed? What did I miss here? Doesn't that first require Utica to be able to beat Fisher, something it's obvious they can't do? "

Actually, Utica beat themselves against Fisher this year. Utica is the more talented team.

The last team in conference to beat Fisher before last night was Utica. That same season Fisher only beat them by 3 at home to win the tournament.

Last year, Fisher beat Utica by one point. Utica has improved many times over from last year, and Fisher has declined.

I know a few guys on Fisher, and talk to them quite often. The last 3 years they have told me the same thing: Utica is the only team that gets them nervous.

Utica getting the number 1 seed is not at all far fetched. You can't even begin to compare this team to past teams as far as their attitude and ability on the road. In the past Utica relied on one or two guys. This year they have at least 10 that they can go to. Almost every night they have 4-6 guys in double figures.

They didn't play well at Hartwick, so what? Hartwick came in hyped up like they were playing Duke, and Utica came in hyped up like they were playing in gym class against the chess team. Nazareth, who is 6-9, beat a Fisher team, who despite the rivalry, probably didnt take them serious either. Utica learned not to sleep on anybody, as you could see in their next game against Elmira. Fisher fans had better hope Fisher reacts the same way, or they may lose to another conference team as well.

Utica has learned to take it one game at a time, are getting better each game, and are finally starting to get the concept of every team being nameless and faceless, and worrying about their own game. They are finally becoming a mature enough team to understand that if they play their game and don't beat themselves, they should win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 22, 2006, 10:14:25 PM
I have no doubt that Utica can beat Fisher.  The Naz win this weekend put to bed any notion that the Cardinals are untouchable.  However, I'm in agreement with GB15 that no one should consider Utica the favorite in the conference until they prove they can win on the road, and specifically in Rochester. 

They have not beaten either RIT or Fisher on the road in at least 3 years (I didn't bother looking back further).  To take down the 1 seed they will probably have to beat them both.  And it's not as if Utica hasn't been talented.  I think all GB15 is saying is "prove it," which is entirely appropriate given the Pioneers history.

They have a nine day stretch that goes @Naz, @RIT, @Alfred, @Fisher.  If they win the first 3, the final game at Fisher should be for the regular season championship.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 22, 2006, 10:21:17 PM
Current Standings:



Utica4-1
Ithaca4-1
Naz3-1
Fisher3-1
RIT2-2
Alfred1-3

I won't list Hartwick because they don't matter and it will piss MadHawk off.

Alfred couldn't hold serve at home and it will take some road wins to have a shot at that #4 seed.  Nazareth got that big win over Fisher and has the early lead for the #4 spot.  Biggest games this year will probably be Ithaca @ Naz, Ithaca @ RIT, RIT @Naz, and this Tuesday's Naz @ RIT.  Those 3 will be fighting it out for the last two tourney spots.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 22, 2006, 10:39:07 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 22, 2006, 10:14:25 PM
I have no doubt that Utica can beat Fisher.  The Naz win this weekend put to bed any notion that the Cardinals are untouchable.  However, I'm in agreement with GB15 that no one should consider Utica the favorite in the conference until they prove they can win on the road, and specifically in Rochester. 

They have not beaten either RIT or Fisher on the road in at least 3 years (I didn't bother looking back further).  To take down the 1 seed they will probably have to beat them both.  And it's not as if Utica hasn't been talented.  I think all GB15 is saying is "prove it," which is entirely appropriate given the Pioneers history.

They have a nine day stretch that goes @Naz, @RIT, @Alfred, @Fisher.  If they win the first 3, the final game at Fisher should be for the regular season championship.



I'm not saying that Utica is the favorite. There is no favorite. But to suggest that they can't beat Fisher is a little off the wall.

This is not your typical Utica team folks. The attitude is better than they have had there in about a decade when they started out something like 16-0.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 22, 2006, 11:07:53 PM
BAMM, where were you sitting at the Fisher RIT game.  on a side note two big games comming up for Fisher home against Alfred and at the Bulb in Ithica, I hopefully will be at the Ithica games, but these are big games for all three teams, if Fisher is able to win both it makes them that much closer to possibly getting the number 1 seed
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 23, 2006, 12:15:25 AM
After all of the discussion of student sections after this weekend I'm just wondering who everybody feels has the best
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on January 23, 2006, 12:26:46 AM
GB15...I have preliminary plans to be at the Bulb this weekend. Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 23, 2006, 12:43:35 AM
gotta love the fan who voted for hartwick. ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 23, 2006, 08:19:44 AM
Quote from: superman57 on January 22, 2006, 11:07:53 PM
BAMM, where were you sitting at the Fisher RIT game. on a side note two big games comming up for Fisher home against Alfred and at the Bulb in Ithica, I hopefully will be at the Ithica games, but these are big games for all three teams, if Fisher is able to win both it makes them that much closer to possibly getting the number 1 seed

I sat few rows up above the Fisher bench.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 23, 2006, 12:10:10 PM
Booyah Folks!

Active weekend in the Empire 8 this past weekend!

The Scores:

Friday night:

RIT 55, Fisher 76
Ithaca 67, Hartwick 58
Nazareth 89, Alfred 74
Elmira 46, Utica 86

Saturday

Nazareth 62, Fisher 60
RIT 79, Alfred 76 OT
Elmira 54, Hartwick 65
Ithaca 57, Utica 70

Before I continue, I would like to drop another Booyah (for old times sake)

Empire 8 winning percentages going into this past Friday night:

Fisher -->11-2 (.846)
Utica --> 10-2 (.833)
Alfred -->7-6 (.538)
RIT --> 7-6 (.538)
Ithaca --> 6-6 (.500)
Hartwick --> 6-8 (.428)
Nazareth --> 4-9 (307)
Elmira --> 3-11 (.214)

Empire 8 winning percentages going into after this past Friday night:


  Utica  12-2 (.857)
  Fisher  12-3 (.800)
  RIT      8-7   (.533)
  Ithaca  7-7   (.500)
  Alfred  7-8  (.467)
  Hartwick  7-9 (.438)
  Nazareth  6-9 (.400)
  Elmira      3-13 (.188)



The Empire 8 team of the weekend is no doubt Nazareth, for their wins against Alfred and the mighty Fisher Cardinals. It is important to point out that Nazareth has the second youngest starting 5 in the conference and they sport the second lowest overall winning percentage. It is safe to say that not many Empire 8 fans picked Nazareth to pull off the two upsets this weekend. Nazareth's wins this weekend is a clear indication that 1) Fisher is beatable 2) the lower tier teams in the conference (Alfred, Elmira, Nazareth, Hartwick) can be successful and compete in the conference. This next week is a pivotal week for the Golden Flyers.




As for Hartwick, big win this weekend in their effort to save the season and their run for elite hood in the Empire 8 (top four). First off, the Hawks gave an ok (not great) effort on Friday night against Ithaca. While Ithaca won, I am now convinced that their win was aided by the Zebras largely one sided officiating. Given the flow and events of the game a 9 point Ithaca win in my book is unconvincing. I am sorry to deliver such bad news! As for the next meeting next month, I would give the Hawks a 5 point line over Ithaca at the Bulb. The game against Elmira, gave hope back to the Hawks that they can win the Empire 8 conference. Now onto Rochester this coming weekend for games against RIT and Naz, which are obviously pivotal and winnable games! Meanwhile Ithaca will have their hands full with Alfred and Fisher.

The Empire 8 season is a long way from over! Anything can happen! After all it is College Basketball BABY!!!!!

Ciao for now!

Mad Hawk / Uncle Booyah
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 23, 2006, 01:31:51 PM
Empire 8 standings:

Utica: 4-1    (.800)
Ithaca: 4-1  (.800)
Naz: 3-1  (.750)
SJF: 3-1  (.750)
RIT: 2-2 (.500)
Alfred: 1-3 (.250)
Hartwick: 1-4 (.200)
Elmira: 0-5 (.000)

Other than SJF and Utica, these are the only standings that matter. Given the overall records, they are the only 2 with a shot at an at-large selection if they don't win the conference.

I'm sure that the fact that Ithaca is the better team had nothing to do with IC beating Hartwick on the road, it was all because of the refs. In fact, the refs probably figured that since Hartwick was playing in their home gym, they should get together and give IC all the calls, just to try and even things out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 23, 2006, 04:07:49 PM
MadHawk, do you take yourself seriously? If you do, you're the only one that does. Ithaca's 9-point win on the road was unconvincing? How? Ithaca led by mid-double digits the entire 2nd half. It was 59-41 with 2 1/2 minutes to play when the reserves came in! Way to go Hartwick starters for putting on a 17-8 run during garbage time. What happened to your boy Cocozziello that game?

As for Hartwick being a "5-point favorite at the Bulb," I think not. In fact, at no point in that game will Hartwick ever lead by five points. I'd be very surprised if Ithaca doesn't win by 20.

Jukebox, get some Sammy's Pizza or Shortstop Subs before or after the game. You can thank me later.

I think the most surprising thing about Naz's sweep this weekend was how other guys stepped up. Before, if you contained Canori you'd have a great shot at winning. McAdam is a nice second option but after that, it significantly dropped off. However, this weeken, Kyle Nelson had a game against Alfred and the role players were fantastic against Fisher. If those guys can keep playing well, Naz will be dangerous because not every E8 team has a lockdown defender like Nick Bennett so Canori will get his on most nights.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 23, 2006, 04:20:38 PM
It really pains me that the team from the E* to break the home win streak was-
NAZ!
Maaaaaaaaaan that sucks!
Watch them plummet out of the top 25 now!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on January 23, 2006, 06:41:25 PM
Fisher loses to Naz and only drops to 22 in the most recent rankings. I thought they would be dumped right out of the top 25. granted I don't take care what the rankings are now but it is still fun to see where teams are ranked
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 24, 2006, 09:21:20 AM
I really am shocked that they stayed in the top 25.
Cool.
Now they just have to keep their noses clean !!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 24, 2006, 11:03:05 AM
There are four intriguing games tonight involving E8 squads.  In Rochester, the traveling partners will play their first conferences games against each other when Naz travels to RIT and Alfred goes to Fisher.  The Naz/RIT game means a lot to the conference standings.  A Flyer victory gives them a stranglehold on the last conference tourney spot.  A Tiger win and both Tech and Alfred are happy.  You've got to like Fisher in a blowout in the other game.

In non-conference action, Utica is at home against an improving Hobart squad.  They should win, but '05/'06 Hobart appears a lot more competitive than other recent versions. 

Ithaca travels down route 13 to face arch-nemesis Cortland, who is leading the SUNYAC right now.  This will be a very tough matchup for the Bombers. 

Naz - 65
RIT - 72

Alfred - 59
Fisher - 73

Hobart - 68
Utica - 78

Ithaca - 65
Cortland - 68

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 24, 2006, 12:31:59 PM
I like your picks. It should be interesting to see how Naz and Fisher react to their game over the weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 24, 2006, 12:38:09 PM
Here's hoping Cortland's badly struggling offense keeps misfiring for one more night.  A road win over one of the best teams in the region would do wonders for IC's confidence as we approach the halfway point of the conference schedule...even better when it's Cortland, of course.

A win would be a good thing to have for the ECAC resume also.  That said, I still think we fall short.  Those damn Dragons just have our number.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 24, 2006, 12:56:27 PM
Utica 77  Hobart 50

No contest. 

The run continues. 
We have the best cahcne to get an at large bid at this point amongst the teams in the ;eague because of our overall record.
SJF too many L's right now
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 24, 2006, 01:09:14 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on January 24, 2006, 12:56:27 PM
Utica 77 Hobart 50

No contest.

The run continues.
We have the best cahcne to get an at large bid at this point amongst the teams in the ;eague because of our overall record.
SJF too many L's right now

First off, I guarantee the Pioneers don't win by 27.  Second, you're wrong about the "at-large" bid.  The only thing that matters is the NCAA Regional Rankings.  SJF will be ahead of Utica, count on it.  They only have one regional loss (to Naz) and they beat the Pioneers. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 24, 2006, 01:51:54 PM
Also note my UC friend that you have to go to Roch on the road where you have played ooh so well in the past!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 24, 2006, 01:52:38 PM
It was madhawk!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 24, 2006, 02:52:54 PM
Clear do you have plans to come up to lovely rochester super bowl weekend to see Fisher and Utica play
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 24, 2006, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 24, 2006, 01:51:54 PM
Also note my UC friend that you have to go to Roch on the road where you have played ooh so well in the past!

This teams talent and attitude cannot even come close to being compared to teams of the past. I don't feel that Rochester is going to be that much of a problem for this group. They will likely get some "different" calls then they are used to, but they will react much better.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 24, 2006, 03:28:19 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on January 24, 2006, 12:56:27 PM
Utica 77  Hobart 50

No contest. 

The run continues. 
We have the best cahcne to get an at large bid at this point amongst the teams in the ;eague because of our overall record.
SJF too many L's right now

I think Utica wins, but not by 27. Maybe the score will be UC 70-Hobart 58
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 24, 2006, 03:34:32 PM
I understand that Utica is a good team this year and that they may handle playing on the road better than in the past, but until they prove it, I still have my doubts.

It's been well documented that Utica has struggled on the road, especially in Rochester. Until Utica performs in a truly hostile gym, I don't think you can make a judgement on them. Looking at their schedule to date, I don't see how you can really be sure that they will react differently than in the past. They have played 6 road games so far, 2 of which were at SUNY IT, and 1 at Caz. These are practically home games anyway. A 73-66 win @Hartwick and 78-69 win @ Oneonta are the only other 2 road wins for Utica, not exactly great competition on the road. The only tough road game, @ Union, Utica lost 81-72.

Props to Utica if they can come in and win in Rochester this weekend, but as GB15 said earlier, let's not put the cart before the horse here.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 24, 2006, 06:21:19 PM
Not the same team people.  One BIG reason.... we  have the best player in Ray Bryant.  He is a dominating presence and will carry Utica to the title. 
Hey I like it this way, nobody respects us.  But time will tell.  And maybe after we kill Hobart by 20 or more people will start to realize just how much talent we have.

Good luck

Oh I will not be up for the Rochester trip sorry.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on January 24, 2006, 06:27:02 PM
Cortland-IC webcast tonight

http://www.bcmonsters.com
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 24, 2006, 06:36:27 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on January 24, 2006, 12:56:27 PM
Utica 77 Hobart 50

No contest.

The run continues.
We have the best cahcne to get an at large bid at this point amongst the teams in the ;eague because of our overall record.
SJF too many L's right now

I love when you're wrong, Clear. "Fisher has too many L's." Well, if you know anything about D3 sports, you know that only in-region losses count against you when it comes time for regional rankings, then the NCAA usually seeds by regional rankings. Fisher has one regional loss, Utica has two regional losses.

I'll spell it out real clear for ya here. Assume something crazy happened and somebody like Naz won the E8 tourney. Fisher would get the at-large bid over Utica because:

a)less in-region losses puts Fisher ahead in the regional rankings
b)tougher schedule
c)two of three losses came against teams ranked #8 and #18, both away from home
d)reputation...last year did a lot for that Fisher program
e)Utica is still not even receiving votes in the poll. And you think the committee is going to give them at-large consideration?
f)Finally, Fisher has scoreboard on them

So, Clear, tell me again who would get the at-large if neither team won the E8 tournament? I thought so.

And can we stop the talk about Ray Bryant? Good for Utica that they lucked into a good JUCO player that was being recruited by some smaller D1 schools (Siena, Canisius, Northeastern) and some D2 schools (Lemoyne). Not sure why he went to Utica, I guess he probably didn't want to be a scrub on some of those other squads.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on January 24, 2006, 07:40:36 PM
HALF

Cortland 32 Ithaca 25

WICB is not broadcasting. They couldn't get their connection up.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on January 24, 2006, 07:45:12 PM
UC is up by 13 (34-21) on Hobart at the half.

Here is the link for the radio broadcast if anyone is interested in listening to the 2nd half...

http://www.starsradionetwork.com/streaming.html
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 24, 2006, 08:54:50 PM
Utica smokes Hobart, 73-54. From what I hear, Hobart never had a chance.


Bombers, I think clears excitement about Bryant is understandable. The guy may be the best player in the conference. His points aren't off the wall because he is a team player and we have several averaging double figures.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 24, 2006, 09:24:42 PM
Cortland 62, Ithica 49.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 24, 2006, 09:48:55 PM
Predictably, Ithaca gets bounced on the road at Cortland, 62-49. From the sounds of the game, Ithaca seemed a bit ambivalent about this one. The rivalry isn't close to that of the football teams. Mullins played guys in the 1st half that don't usually see time. I think he's taking the approach that the conference season is the only thing that matters, which would make this be the first time he was ever right.

Ithaca really needs Brian Joe back. He stretches the defense with his range and opens up opportunities for other players. Burton's gone into a slump since Joe has been out of the lineup. Ithaca is at its best when it goes small and with Joe out they put in Scanlon who likes the half-court game much better. We'll see how this develops. The Bombers picked a bad time to start regressing with Fisher and Alfred coming into the Bulb this weekend. Ithaca needs a split.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 24, 2006, 09:59:03 PM
Naz - 68
RIT - 72

Kris Kowalcyzk goes four for four from the line in the final 21 seconds to put the Tigers ahead and seal the win.  Big night for Fran Snyder who I'm guessing had 15 for the Tigers as well.  Big plays from Colin Roy (tying the game at 68), who also did a good job on Canori (he put up points, but nearly all of them when Roy was not guarding him). 

Matt Groot has developed into a really nice player for Naz.  I'm guessing he had at least 20. 

With wins over Alfred and Naz consecutively, RIT is currently sitting at #4 in the conference.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 24, 2006, 10:38:33 PM
RIT 72
Naz 68

For RIT:
Snyder: 14 pts. 6 assts
Zeinfeld/Kowalczyk: 13 pts each
Bacon: 6 pts. 7 rebs

I still think McVean sits too many of his good players for long stretches, and seemingly, at the wrong times. Bacon, who was in no foul trouble at all tonight, only played 27 minutes. As the only low post presense, you would think he should be getting at least 30 mins/game. Oh well, they still won.

For Naz:

Canori: 21 pts on 8-21 shooting
Groot: 27 pts on 11-17 shooting
Nelson: 10 pts. 10 rebs.
McAdam: 3 pts.

Really thought McAdam would be the second option for Naz, but Groot looked much better tonight.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 24, 2006, 11:21:38 PM
Fisher handles Alfred, but Fisher played bad again, but the refs and Alfreds coaching helped them out.  The two leading scores barely played and then fouled out early in the second half.  While 44 gave Fisher the finger, I do have to say that #5 is quite a player, they need him to have the ball way more than he is.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 25, 2006, 07:39:20 AM
Handles Alfred yes, but I'm not too convinced in the way they have been playing lately.  What gives?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 25, 2006, 08:19:34 AM
QuoteSecondly, if Hartwick wins 6 conference games I'll never post again on Post Patterns. Book it. If they get that sixth conference win, I'll sign off forever. Pat Coleman can block me from the site. I don't care what it takes, I would never post again.


Ticket to an Empire 8 Game: $5
Program: $1.50
Sprite, hot dog, popcorn, candy bar (to benefit the Pocahontas Society): $6
Face paint: $4
Pre-Game festivities: $15

GoBombers15, being banned from this message board: Priceless



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 25, 2006, 08:33:08 AM
GB15 got banned?
What happened?
He piss Pat off?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 25, 2006, 09:17:33 AM
Booyah Folks

Man, this was really predictable..What else is news?

The Bomber downward spiral has begun.

Season Cancel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUNY Cortland Men's Basketball
SUNY Cortland vs. Ithaca College

Tuesday, January 24, 2006; Whitney T. Corey Gymnasium; Cortland, N.Y.

FINAL SCORE: Cortland 62, Ithaca 49

CORTLAND, N.Y. – Senior Frank Ranieri (Cicero-North Syracuse) scored 18 points, grabbed nine
rebounds and handed out four assists as Cortland improved to 15-2 with a 62-49 non-league win over
visiting Ithaca.
Junior Rod Headley (Peekskill) added 12 points and nine rebounds, senior Simon Skrelja (Hastingson-
Hudson/Hastings) scored eight points and senior Scott Taggart (Sidney Center/Franklin) pulled in
eight rebounds for the Red Dragons, who bounced back after having their 14-game win streak snapped
last Saturday versus Oswego. Cortland completed its non-league slate with an 8-1 mark, including a 6-0
record versus teams from the Empire 8.
Ithaca (7-8) was led by senior Jim Bellis (Bloomfield), who was the team's lone double-figure scorer
with 16 points. Freshman Brian Kern (Fredonia) scored nine points, senior Jonathan Whetstone (Palo
Alto, CA) distributed six assists, and senior Brian Andruskiewicz (Oakdale, CT/Montville) and junior
Sean Stahn (Scarsdale/Ardsley) grabbed seven rebounds apiece.
Cortland took a 5-0 lead two minutes into the game and never trailed. Ithaca was within 17-15 on a Stahn
jumper with 11:07 left in the half, but Cortland went on a 12-1 run over the next six minutes and led 27-16.
Ithaca did, however, get back to within 29-25 with 1:22 left, but Dave Jutton's (Red Hook) three-pointer
with 1:05 left gave the Red Dragons a 32-25 halftime lead.
Cortland's lead in the second half varied between six and 10 points for the opening 14 minutes. The Red
Dragons slowly pushed the lead from that point to as high as 17 points before Ithaca scored the final four
points.
# # #
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 25, 2006, 09:35:14 AM
Everybody here knew that Cortland was going to beat Ithaca, even bombers new that. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 25, 2006, 09:51:47 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hartwick lost @ Cortland by an even larger margin?
And didn't Ithaca beat Hartwick @Hartwick?

Oh wait, both those losses were the fault of the officials, I forgot.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 25, 2006, 10:14:09 AM
We are going weare going to the tourny this year.  I just got that feeling!  Totally dominated a lousy Hobart team.  But hey you play the teams on the schedule.

We will go 2-0 this weekend too!

Ray Bryant is unstappable at this level.  I love it.  All the naysayers can keep on chirping.  We will just win and prove all of you wrong.  We are a far beter team than you think.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 25, 2006, 10:19:36 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 25, 2006, 08:33:08 AM
GB15 got banned?
What happened?
He piss Pat off?

No, I don't think GB15 got banned. It's just MADHAWK running his mouth because somehow he thinks Hartwick will get to 6 E8 wins, which is the cut off that GB15 said he would stop posting FOREVER.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 25, 2006, 10:20:04 AM
Are there any English or Writing classes offered at Utica?

If so, you may want to consider signing up for one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 25, 2006, 10:20:57 AM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on January 25, 2006, 10:20:04 AM
Are there any English or Writing classes offered at Utica?

If so, you may want to consider signing up for one.

Speak for yourself, I took those classes, and I made it out unscathed.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 25, 2006, 10:23:16 AM
Um,
Clear- you may want to get through this weekend before you put UC into the tourney!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 25, 2006, 10:23:57 AM
Budcrew-
Thanks for the info-
Hawk is just venting because he got a D in gym!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 25, 2006, 10:43:35 AM
Budcrew and UCGrad this is no offense to you guys at all both of you are great level headed posters and I do enjoy reading your posts, but before Utica starts acting like they're going to the Tourny, you have to beat the Champ, and right now fisher is still the Champ.   The funniest thing from last nights Fisher Alfred game was Alfred fans Screaming Nazareth at the fisher side at which point a fisher student pointed out that Alfred had lost to Naz to and then they sat down.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 25, 2006, 10:59:52 AM
Quote from: superman57 on January 25, 2006, 10:43:35 AM
Budcrew and UCGrad this is no offense to you guys at all both of you are great level headed posters and I do enjoy reading your posts, but before Utica starts acting like they're going to the Tourny, you have to beat the Champ, and right now fisher is still the Champ.   The funniest thing from last nights Fisher Alfred game was Alfred fans Screaming Nazareth at the fisher side at which point a fisher student pointed out that Alfred had lost to Naz to and then they sat down.

Hey, superdood:
I have never said that Utica is going anywhere. Right now, until further review, they are still the 2nd place team in the Empire 8. In the words of Ric Flair "to be the man you have to beat the man!" Fisher, until proven otherwise, is still the man. Although if it came down to Fisher and Utica for the E8 title, it would be a great thing for the conference.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 25, 2006, 11:39:34 AM
absolutly and I hope that you are able to get out here for the Fisher Utica game it should be a good game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 25, 2006, 12:25:15 PM
Quote from: Mad Hawk on January 25, 2006, 08:19:34 AM
QuoteSecondly, if Hartwick wins 6 conference games I'll never post again on Post Patterns. Book it. If they get that sixth conference win, I'll sign off forever. Pat Coleman can block me from the site. I don't care what it takes, I would never post again.

Ticket to an Empire 8 Game: $5
Program: $1.50
Sprite, hot dog, popcorn, candy bar (to benefit the Pocahontas Society): $6
Face paint: $4
Pre-Game festivities: $15

GoBombers15, being banned from this message board: Priceless

In the words of Chris Rock, "yeah I said it, it HAD to be said!" MadHawk, I'm glad you took the time to read my post that Cortland predictably beat Ithaca. How do road losses to Utica and Cortland constitute Ithaca entering a downward spiral? Ithaca isn't a good road team, anways, so they shouldn't beat the SUNYAC leaders and the 2nd best team in E8 at their places. That said, Ithaca was still a good enough road team to beat Hartwick and would beat the Hawks anywhere at any time.

As for my potential self-imposed "ban," I think I'm pretty safe on that one. Hartwick has already played five home games within the conference and is 1-4. For me to never post again, Hartwick would have to go 5-4 in their last nine games, seven of which are on the road. Besides the fact that 'Wick hasn't won a road game in the conference since I was in college(and I was an underclassmen), I don't think they'll be taking at least 3 games on the road this year. In fact, I'm so confident, I'll up the ante just to rub it in your face further. HARTWICK WON'T WIN 4 CONFERENCE GAMES and if they do, I'll never post again. Believe me, I'm still confident about that, Hartwick sucks. Period.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 25, 2006, 12:33:43 PM
MadHawk, I also see that I'm such an icon to you that you have decided to spend the time to google image search my picture of "Prince" and even quote me below that. Have you gone so far as to order Ithaca and Tulane memorabilia yet?

By the way, how do you spend $5 for a ticket to an E8 game? I'm not sure I've spent more than $5 on E8 basketball since my freshman year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 25, 2006, 12:45:33 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 25, 2006, 12:33:43 PM
MadHawk, I also see that I'm such an icon to you that you have decided to spend the time to google image search my picture of "Prince" and even quote me below that. Have you gone so far as to order Ithaca and Tulane memorabilia yet?

By the way, how do you spend $5 for a ticket to an E8 game? I'm not sure I've spend more the $5 on E8 basketball since my freshman year.

I know that tickets are $4 at Utica for basketball games for adults, but they are only $2 for non- UC students, and free for UC students and staff.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 25, 2006, 01:04:07 PM
Quote from: superman57 on January 25, 2006, 10:43:35 AM
Budcrew and UCGrad this is no offense to you guys at all both of you are great level headed posters and I do enjoy reading your posts, but before Utica starts acting like they're going to the Tourny, you have to beat the Champ, and right now fisher is still the Champ.   The funniest thing from last nights Fisher Alfred game was Alfred fans Screaming Nazareth at the fisher side at which point a fisher student pointed out that Alfred had lost to Naz to and then they sat down.

I agree that we have to beat Fisher first. We also have to get it done in all our other games. In the first game againt Fisher, we dominated them in every aspect of the game. We simply beat ourselves.  I just feel that this is the best chance Utica has had since I have been around the team.

Being close to the team since 1999, I can honestly say that this team is nothing like Utica teams of the past. Just having the record that they currently do at this point in the season is evidence of that to those outside of the program/school. We may not win the conference, but we definately have a great chance of winning it this season.

A win over Fisher in one of our two remaining possible match ups against them could also get us an at large bid, providing we beat Oswego and take care of business as we should in league. There is a lot that can happen. I am just happy to be able to have such a fun and exciting season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 25, 2006, 01:19:54 PM
UC Grad the only way the Utica will even be able to get an at large bid is if one they maul fisher at Fisher and win out the rest of the season impresively,  I mean I am never shocked at anything that happens in college basketball take North Dakota State for example, but Fisher has won 41 of the last 42 games at home and the one game they did lose the shot went in after the buzzer,  I am saying this after Tivoing the game and watching really closely for 45 minutes.  So best of luck to Utica but I don't think there will be any at large bids for the E8 this year I think any team who wants to go needs to win out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 25, 2006, 01:54:08 PM
Superman, you may be right about one bid (and probably are), but the selection committee has been rather nice to teams from this part of the country; some would say overly nice. 

Brockport and Plymouth State unexpectedly got bids in 2004 (I think); this caused The Guru to flip out ninja-style and read the selection committee the riot act on the front page of d3hoops.com.  Good times.

Utica's regional winning percentage will end up looking very good and their QOWI could be solid also thanks to overachieving teams like SUNYIT.  The NCAA's formula and procedure could very well net this league 2 bids even if we don't necessarily deserve it on our own merits.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bearseh on January 25, 2006, 08:54:35 PM
Not only did Brockport receive a 2004 bid, they were seeded high enough to receive a first round bye and consequently, a second round home game. I thought then that they deserved an at lage bid but not a seeding for the bye.

Best of luck to SJF and Utica. Hope for 2 bids springs eternal but the selection gurus move in very mysterious ways.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 25, 2006, 10:50:03 PM
The next five games for Utica will determine their chances at an at-large selection. If they do any worse than 4-1, I think we can kiss the bid goodbye.

@Naz
@RIT
@Alfred
@Fisher
@Oswego

I say that because assuming they're up for an at-large bid would infer Utica lost in the E8 tourney. That may sound obvious but I'm not sure what they're teaching at Hartwick or in SOME of the Utica classes(not you, Budcrew, don't worry). If Utica finishes with four losses, I think they're in. If the finish with five, I'm unsure but leaning more towards no. That Oswego game is huge because both teams are right about in the same position. If Oswego beats them and both teams come up for an at-large bid, the committee will take the winner of that game.

As much as I rip Clear, I'm obviously rooting for as many teams as possible from the E8 in the dance. After Ithaca, my loyalty is to the E8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on January 26, 2006, 12:30:39 AM
Worst ever NCAA at-large selection.....

Cazenovia College in 2001-2002

After receiving their bid into the tournament, they were promptly given a Charlie Murphy on Rick James @$$ whoopin and sent packing by Williams.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 26, 2006, 02:34:47 AM
Quote from: John McGraw on January 26, 2006, 12:30:39 AM
Worst ever NCAA at-large selection.....

Cazenovia College in 2001-2002

After receiving their bid into the tournament, they were promptly given a Charlie Murphy on Rick James @$$ whoopin and sent packing by Williams.

That one gets brought up every year like clockwork, and it's always fun to reminisce on it.  It was a Pool B bid, somebody's got to get those I guess.  I don't recall the specifics all that well, (other than that they finished FOURTH in the NEAC and still got in) but there were a few Cazenovia fans on here that were jerks and actually proposed straight-faced that they belonged and could beat Williams, one of the best in the nation that year. 

Best post was after their 70-point loss when one of their fans said something to the effect of "it really could have gone either way, but Williams was just the better team tonight."  Hi-larious.  Come to think of it, sounds like something Mad Hawk or ClearConceit might write.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 26, 2006, 09:28:57 AM
Potentially bad news for GB15 and the other IC fans. Apparently the news on Brian Joe is not good. I understand that he went in for an MRI on his knee and his status for the rest of the season is in doubt.

IC will struggle down the stretch if they can't get him back.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 26, 2006, 11:58:33 AM
Why the hostility towards me?  I am not like Mad Hawk - the difference my team is kicking XXX.  We can get a bid and that is a real chance.  I don't see anyone beating us up to the Fisher game.  Maybe I am over confident maybe I am onto something, that remains to be seen.  Unlike some of you who rip other schools ect I don't do that. 
I believe Utica is the best team.  I could care less if Ithaca or Hartwick wins games etc.  i just Want Utica to win.
And I would never make excuses for a loss. 

As I already predicted on here:
Utica by 20 over Naz
Utica by 16 over RIT

The bus rolling people.... hop aboard!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 26, 2006, 12:09:34 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on January 26, 2006, 09:28:57 AM
Potentially bad news for GB15 and the other IC fans. Apparently the news on Brian Joe is not good. I understand that he went in for an MRI on his knee and his status for the rest of the season is in doubt.

IC will struggle down the stretch if they can't get him back.

Yes, that is bad news. In terms of "bad news received today," I'd have to rank that one right behind finding out we're not getting our new fridge for another ten days but just ahead of learning wrestling isn't real. In all seriousness, that injury hurts the Bombers a lot. I think Joe is their 3rd best player (behind Bellis, Andruskiewicz). He is their one consistent outside shooter and he's quick enough to guard PG's, allowing Whetstone who is taller than most guards to match-up with the other team's swingman.

But like I've always said, injuries are not an excuse. Ithaca will have to change their style of play or find someone who can match Joe's production. It's time for Brad Clemente to step up. I thought he was going to be a starter this year and I don't know if he has a nagging injury or he's in the doghouse but he keeps going in and out of the rotation. Freshman Brian Kern seems like he has a good future and has showed flashes of very good play. Maybe Tigerbro2 might have to step in and contribute. We'll see.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 26, 2006, 02:55:04 PM
lets see Naz beat fisher, fisher beat utica= Naz beats Utica, well probably not but if Utica beats naz by more 20 then I will wear a dress and call my self shirley,  Clear Utica is good but you cant say your going to the tourny untill you beat the best team in the league and sorry thats not Utica, it is still Fisher.  Fishers one league loss was against a mortal rival,  Unless you have ever been to a Fisher Naz game you have no idea how big of a game it is.  Think Cortaca Jug better yet think Duke UNC and you might have an idea of how heated the teams get to play each other.  On the other hand you guys barely beat HARTWICK yes Hartick so untill you beat hartwick by 20 you can not say you are going to beat other teams by 20.
I say
Utica-72
Naz-68
Utica-63
RIT-66

I'm not going to even guess fisher Elmira but it won't be close
Fisher 71
Ithaca-66
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on January 26, 2006, 04:01:29 PM
How much is Hartwick favored by to beat RIT tommorow bumpkin?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 26, 2006, 06:06:03 PM
Superman, Fisher will beat Ithaca by more than 5 this weekend. Brian Joe is out and Ithaca just isn't playing good basketball over the last two games. Sure, it was against two quality teams but I think this is Ithaca's usual mid-season lull. Also, I know Fisher/Naz is a big rivalry, but comparing it to the Jug? I'll admit I've never been to a Fisher/Naz bball game and I know there's some hatred there, but comparing it to what Sports Illustrated once called "The Biggest Little Game" in the country? I'm not saying your wrong, but have you been to a Jug? I've been to the last 6 and my liver still hates me for it.

My usual Thursday predictions in hopes of nailing the winner and the score before the season is over.

Friday

Utica 75  Naz 72
Hartwick 49  RIT  69
Fisher 245  Elmira 38 (ok, maybe not, Fisher wins 80-51)
Alfred 68  Ithaca 70

Saturday

Utica 71  RIT 70  (OT)
Hartwick 57  Naz 78
Alfred 72  Elmira 56
Fisher 74 Ithaca 64

I know, I know, I bet the chalk in every single game. I think the Naz game is going to take a lot of energy out of Utica so I expect a tight one with RIT. The only thing that keeps me from taking RIT is still the lack of a go-to-guy on that team. I think that's what costs them late in that one. As to Clear's comments about winning their games by 15 and 20 this weekend, I'd be very surprised if the total of their combined wins(if they even win both) get to 15 points.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 26, 2006, 06:15:14 PM
While football and basketball are very different and it is not as huge as Cortica because it happens twice a semester it's the same intensity esspecially when you are playing in the Varsity Gym
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 26, 2006, 08:55:32 PM
Being a Fisher fan, who loves the Naz-Fisher game, and also being from Cortland and experiencing the Cortaca Jug my entire life (father is a C-state alum), I feel I have to put my 2 cents in on this topic.

while very few things in sports can compare to the intensity of a Cortaca jug game, probably the only thing around here in small college athletics that comes close is Fisher-Naz. I definatly think the Cortaca jug is a much bigger event, but a lot of that probably has to do with how many people are exposed to it. First it is Football which more people watch at this level, second, the size of stadiums for football allow a lot more people to watch (Fisher stopped letting people into the gym w/ 10 minutes left in the first half of the girls game last weekend.) Also the size of the schools plays a role, Ithaca and C state are much bigger than Fisher and Naz.

To the people involved in both games it is a huge deal. Cortaca is still the big ticket for obvious reasons. It is the best event in small college sports for my money. Not to mention the fact that the Cortaca game is usually close, with each team having a solid chance at winning. Naz's win last weekend was their 4th in the last 36 meetings between the 2 schools.

But, I would not place a Fisher-Naz game very far behind. But hey, I went to school at Fisher, so obviously I have a biased opinion. I will say that it is definatly the most intense basketball rivalry in the region. I am sure Williams and Amherst is great, but it would have to do a lot to match the Fisher Naz game.

That Fisher Naz game really needs a name for itself. You say Cortaca and everyone knows what you are talking about.
Any ideas for a possible name for the game?

GO CARDS...





Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 26, 2006, 11:31:35 PM
I know that they had tried Battle of the Beaks but it never quite caught on
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 27, 2006, 10:32:17 AM
http://democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060127/SPORTS09/601270376/1007/SPORTS

Article about Nick Bennett coming back for this season. Pretty good article.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 27, 2006, 10:56:49 AM
GB15
Thanks-great article!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 27, 2006, 10:57:54 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 27, 2006, 10:32:17 AM
http://democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060127/SPORTS09/601270376/1007/SPORTS

Article about Nick Bennett coming back for this season. Pretty good article.

That was definitely a good article. As someone who has been in the journalism world (news and sports), that took a simple profile of the player and turned it into a lot more.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 27, 2006, 11:39:57 AM
Sure did-
made PWC look like saints too!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 27, 2006, 11:45:22 AM
I hate to say it, but Madhawk has spewed enough Hartwick nonsense that I'm intrigued by the RIT - Wick game tonight.  It's not that I think the Hawks will win, no way.  It's just that this is the first time I have any interest whatsoever in actually watching them play.  

Sadly, I won't be around for the RIT-Utica game tomorrow.  A win for the Tigers would be huge.  A loss doesn't hurt them too bad.

Look for Naz to put a scare into Utica tonight, maybe even pull one out if the Pioneers are sluggish.  
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 27, 2006, 08:51:44 PM
Bombers lead Alfred at the half, 38-29. Sean Burton has 11 and Dom Scanlon with 8 points. Brian Joe returned tonight for the Bombers and though his shooting is a little rusty, he's played great defense and has made some nice assists. Apparently he had a wrist injury that has been bothering him.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 27, 2006, 09:06:20 PM
In the least surprising development of the night, Naz is giving Utica a battle in Rochester. The Golden Flyers lead 38-35 in the 2nd half with 13 mins remaining.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on January 27, 2006, 09:43:26 PM
Utica beats Naz 59-51.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 27, 2006, 09:53:11 PM
Ithaca plays an awful 2nd half and relinquishes a 13-point lead, watching Alfred take a 5-point lead at one point. Ithaca rallies to tie late in the game and goes into OT tied at 67. Ithaca leads 75-72 in OT after a 3-pointer by Bellis late in OT.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 27, 2006, 10:00:05 PM
Hartwick - 61
RIT - 88

Hartwick is a long way from being a good team.

The only exciting episode in the game went like this:  Right before tipoff, I look at my buddy and say "I can't tell who Hartwick's head coach is, all those guys look and act exactly the same.  Not really a good sign ."

In the second half I found out the Hartwick head coach was suspended for this game.  Needless to say, I was proud of myself.

Nice game for Fran Snyder, who did whatever he wanted all night at the offensive end.  At least 12 or 13 guys had to score for the Tigers.  Hartwick never had it under single digits after it was 14-4.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 27, 2006, 10:04:21 PM
Ithaca wins in OT, 83-76. Big games for Bellis, Burton(now favorite for E8 ROY) and Whetsone of all people. Bombers need a split this weekend and will get it now. Ithaca stays tied for 1st place in the E8 at 5-1.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on January 27, 2006, 10:22:57 PM
what makes sean burton the favorite for roy over doug herring?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 27, 2006, 10:23:38 PM
Fisher rolls Elmira by 29.

can't wait for the game tomorrow in Ithaca.

Go cards...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 28, 2006, 12:24:25 AM
Not sure what game you were watching GBomber, but our game wasn't that close.  It was 16 points with a few minutes left.  A couple of harmless 3's made it a single digit game.
Nobody believes but I will say it again.... we are going to the TOURNEY baby.  We will rock RIT tomorrow.

Take no prisoners.

Hey Mad Hawk.... what's the matter with you?  Can't you face the msuic when you get your A$# kicked?  I am waiting to hear about how your coach didn't coach and that would have made the difference.  Nobody pulls for you more than me but atleast face the music.

Also I still say that Cocozziello kid is the best freshman.  I am out of here.

Go PIONEERS!!!!  Rock on baby.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 28, 2006, 01:03:08 AM
What game was I watching? I wasn't watching any game, I'm in New Orleans, idiot. However, I do have this thing called internet and was listening to the Utica game when it was 38-35, Naz leading, with 13 minutes remaining(when I posted). Look at the box score, that will back me up. Your radio guy (Andy the Ox?) even mentioned it was a close game until the last 9 minutes. By the way, I'd rather pull every hair out of my leg than listen to another Utica basketball broadcast. If I have to hear another "and the refs call the foul on the Pioneers, I don't know how they can call that" or "out of bounds...how is that not the Pioneers' ball, come on," I think I'm going to barf.

Bird Man, I bet Burton has Alfred's coach's vote. Each time Alfred would get up by 3 or 4, Burton would hit a 3 or make a big pass to set up a basket. He was huge tonight. I think Herring is his biggest challenger right now. You can't hand Cocozziello the award because he's the only player on that team, that's not how it should work.

Ray Bryant is not the best player in the conference, he's not even the best player in the conference with that last name. For my money, I'd take Quentin Bryant of Alfred any day of the week. That kid is filthy. He was hitting step-back 3's with two guys in his face at big moments in the game tonight. Alfred's offense should be "give it to Quentin, everyone else just get out of the way." Kid is dirty. That said, I think Canori should win POY but may get punished by the fact he's only a sophomore, we will see.

Hey, MadDumb, where you at now? What's up with the Hawks? I guess their "downward spiral" began when they had to start playing competent D3 basketball teams, huh? Still think they have 4 conference wins in them? I sure don't!

Just hoping Ithaca doesn't get run by Fisher tomorrow, Go Bombers!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 28, 2006, 09:04:55 AM
"Your radio guy (Andy the Ox?) even mentioned it was a close game until the last 9 minutes. By the way, I'd rather pull every hair out of my leg than listen to another Utica basketball broadcast. If I have to hear another "and the refs call the foul on the Pioneers, I don't know how they can call that" or "out of bounds...how is that not the Pioneers' ball, come on," I think I'm going to barf."

From 38-35, Naz only scored once for almost 9 minutes.

Adam the Bull rarely rips on officials. Working very close to him during games, I can tell you for a fact that he will usually defend officials, even when the Utica crowd is getting on them. However, as said before, there seems to be a different style of officiating in rochester than in the rest of the state.


As for Ray Bryant, he is much better than people outside of Utica give him credit for. He could have inflated stats, but he is a team player. He has been conference player or co player of the week 3 times this season. That is more than any other player in the conference. The other Bryant has been player of the week exactly zero times. Let's not go crazy with our claims because you don't like clear.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 28, 2006, 09:12:44 AM
All I said is Q.Bryant is the most "talented" player in the league. For anyone who has seen him play, I'm sure you'll agree with me. Q was Player of the Week a bunch last year but for some reason they're trying not to depend on him too much this year. He had about 10 pts halfway through the 2nd half last night then decided he was gonna take over and, though i don't know his exact total, I bet he had around 30. Keep in mind Ray Bryant has played an entire season and Quentin just came back for the 2nd semester. Even the Fisher fans said they don't understand why the ball isn't in his hands every time down the floor, which I tend to agree with.

And, Utica fans, you guys are going to have to let this whole "different officiating style in Rochester" thing die. During my year off from school I lived in Rochester and the reffing looked exactly the same to me as it did when I was at Ithaca. That is to say they are D3 refs and can be inconsistent at times. It's gonna be a hard sell convincing me that only the Utica/Hartwick combo have good officials but every other place does not. I'm not buying that for a second. Suck it up, play the game, and deal with the fact most teams get home calls. It's part of the advantage of playing at home.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 28, 2006, 09:56:00 AM
Q. Bryant is a good player. I have seen him play twice a season since he was a freshman. However, Ray is overall a better player in my opinion. Maybe you didn't like his 29 and 10 against Ithaca? ;)
The reason he doesn't always have the ball is that Alfred also has Stein, who may be the best big man in the conference. It is a team game. Ray could probably average about 30 a game, but he doesn't have the need to do that. He makes the whole team better both with his play, and his intangibles. Q. Bryant is not a leader in my opinion. With the talent Alfred has, they should be much better than their record shows.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on January 28, 2006, 10:13:04 AM
UC grad...I totally agree.  UC is a much better team when Ray Bryant is on the court.  It doesn't matter if he is scoring or not.  He makes everyone around him better and is the type of player anyone would want on their team. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 28, 2006, 11:01:34 AM
I guess I've got to see Burton play in some more games. I've only seen him once -- against Hartwick -- and he wasn't all that impressive. He was out of sync and quite hot-headed, getting a technical foul after fouling a Hartwick player. He only had 11 points and more turnovers than assists 3-2.

I also had a chance to listen to the game against Green Mountain and it sounded like Burton played well, but Green Mountain isn't exactly a powerhouse.

BTW, Cocozziello didn't play all that great against Ithaca either, only scoring 3 points.

Finally, a thought for today, I'm sure it won't happen, but here's hoping Ithaca knocks off Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 28, 2006, 11:11:27 AM
9 Freshmen
1 Sophmore
3 Juniors (2 of whom are transfers)
2 Seniors (1 transfer)

3 Returners
12 New Players

Starters
Youngest Starting 5 in the E8 (No prior seasons of experience)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Hawks have come a long way so far this season from the previous two seasons! Even with a loss last night against RIT, I am not concerned one bit. Lets not forget that last nights game was the first E8 road game for 12 out of 15 players. Last night's loss was a wake call for the young Hawks that playing on the road is tough. RIT can expect to face a smarter Hawks team on February 11th. At the moment, I place the line at: Hawks by 4.

Let's not forget that Roman Empire lost several battles before they became the power they ended up being. Last night's game was a terrific learning experience for the Hawks (The emerging empire).

Also, Britian lost the American Revolution. Look at who they are today, a world power


Ciao for now..more later
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 28, 2006, 11:15:33 AM
First off even if Fisher losses one more confrence game but then beats utica Fisher still has the tie break over Utica,  but if Fisher plays anything like they've played the past two games then Ithaca definitly stands a chance to win.  Again I say the only way Utica is going to the tourny is if they win out and make it to the championship game and either win it or lose in overtime or something like that.  I think the only team that truly stands a chance at getting an at large bid is Fisher if they win out because of the fact that they are Nationally Ranked and have proved themselves in the past, not something Utica has done yet.  Fisher has 3 losses to of them were on the road to top 25 teams and the other one was against a huge rival.  So clear please be a little leval headed hear.  Try to understand that so matter how much you want it to happen Utica will not rout any team except for Hartwick and Utica, this league is a lot closer then we all thought.  Second understand that Empire 8 hasn't gotten two bids to the tourny in as long as I can remember, and 3rd you can't be the best till you beat the best and 41 out of 42 in the Varsity Gym tell me that your gonna have a rough time winning in the varisty gym
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 28, 2006, 11:21:26 AM
Opps, I almost forget to include a BOOYAH
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 28, 2006, 11:24:16 AM
MadHawk,
I have nothing against Hartwick or any team in the E8, but you can't keep posting these ridiculous things. You just can't.

While there may be improvements happening at Hartwick, you are making the City of Oneonta, the school, the students, the coaches and the players on the team look bad.

Hartwick will not compete for the E8 title this year, they will not win more than a few conference games, and you need to accept that. You are just making Hartwick and yourself a target.

You can't boast about how good a team is, then when they lose by 17 points, come up with excuses that 12 of 15 players on the team hadn't experienced a E8 road game before. Good teams win games, it is as simple as that. It's true Hartwick has improved, but they are still not a good team.

The Hawks time will come in the next couple years if they are able to keep players around, but this is not the year and you should realize it before you embarass yourself even more than you already have.

And quit saying Booyah, it's not helping.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 28, 2006, 11:36:41 AM
Thank you Superman57...somebody had to say it...


Fisher is still the class of the conference, and I don't see that changing. Utica losses came to what turns out to be a very average Union team and to FISHER...which says to me they are not the best team in the conference. Clear would have you think they are the top choice for #1 in the country.

The way I see it, Utica is at a point that Fisher was at a few years ago, having a great year, but still just not quite there with the elite in the nation. Fisher had some years where they dominated the empire 8 but they just didn't have enough against elite teams in the rgion(u of r is the best example).
I dout Utica would beat a Rochester, or even a Lake Erie on the road. So for now lets just take Utica's season for what it is, a great run, and a good chance to do something special. I still don't think they are there with Fisher, which I think we all can agree has made it to the elite level...

GO CARDS...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 28, 2006, 11:43:52 AM
Fisher has had a tremendous amount of success over the past few years, but I still think they have a little bit further to go to be called elite. I guess it depends on how people would define elite.

The first step, in my opinion, is for the team to make it to the Final Four, or even the Elite 8. Last year the Cards got whomped in the Sweet 16, not far enough for them to be called elite in my opinion.

If they played in a good conference maybe I could excuse the Sweet 16 blip, but the Empire 8 is not even in the top 2 conferences in the East Region, so that won't work.

Fisher is really good, and they even beat U of R in the Chase, but I still can't put them in the same class as the Yellowjackets. Maybe this will be the year Fisher attains elite status, but they're not quite there yet.

As for Utica, I agree with Superman (though not with his writing skills) that Utica fans can't start crowing about how UC is the best team in the conference and will blow everyone out by 20 when they can't beat the best team in the weak league -- Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on January 28, 2006, 12:44:43 PM
Fisher-Ithaca game live vidiocast on web.www.ictv.org/sections/webcast/livewebcast.php @4:00pm.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 28, 2006, 03:55:36 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 28, 2006, 01:03:08 AM
Ray Bryant is not the best player in the conference, he's not even the best player in the conference with that last name. For my money, I'd take Quentin Bryant of Alfred any day of the week. That kid is filthy. He was hitting step-back 3's with two guys in his face at big moments in the game tonight. Alfred's offense should be "give it to Quentin, everyone else just get out of the way." Kid is dirty. That said, I think Canori should win POY but may get punished by the fact he's only a sophomore, we will see.

Quentin "Q" Bryant is top notch when he brings his "A" game. Saw him against Naz at McLane. Don't know what the problem was that game, he finished with 10 points, all in last 5 minutes after game had been decided. I know what he can do, and AU has a lot of talent. They work hard. But from my observation, the Saxons are all work, no play. I'm no D3 basketball coach, but from my observation they aren't really enjoying the game. Some folks forget that IT'S A GAME! At 1-5 in E8 (hopefully 2-5 after today), in a year when AU was actually picked to finish in top four of E8, hoping Saxons can turn it around.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FishAluminNC on January 28, 2006, 05:46:23 PM
65-53 Fisher with about a minute to go.  Ithaca shooting 12.5% from the 3 point line.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FishAluminNC on January 28, 2006, 05:50:14 PM
68-55 final goes to Fisher. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 28, 2006, 05:59:40 PM
Utica decides to miss an insane number of FT and blow a wide open dunk to beat themselves.

Two league losses for Utica, and in both of them they beat themselves from the foul line. Very disappointing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on January 28, 2006, 06:12:50 PM
Hartwick beats Naz.....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: owen on January 28, 2006, 06:19:07 PM
Let's keep all this trivial data on Fisher, Ithaca, and Utica off the board.  I'm awaiting important news of the 'Hartwick Empire.'  ;)

Oh my gosh!! The news has arrived. Can that be correct? Hartwick beats Naz? Really? 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 28, 2006, 06:22:03 PM
Hartwick over Naz. Everyone turn off your computers because we'll be hearing from MadHawk. That is, of course, unless he is unconscious because he hit his head on his dorm ceiling after following the gamecast for the last two hours.

Bombers play a horrid 1st half, but you have to give Fisher credit. I talked to a buddy of mine at the game and he's seen every E8 team this year except Elmira and he said Fisher is by far the class of the league. He said there are more athletic teams(Utica) and teams with better shooters (Naz) but Fisher is so well-coached has such a high team basketball IQ that there's just nobody really close right now. As he said, "If Fisher plays their game, there's nobody in this league on their best day that could beat them." I tend to agree with him.

UCgrad, when was this missed dunk you speak of? It better have been within the last two minutes if you're trying to convince us it affected the game. Free throws are a part of the game, no excuses there. Good teams make their FT's.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 28, 2006, 06:27:28 PM
"We will rock RIT tomorrow"
- Clearconceipt

Good call. Turns out Utica can't beat RIT on the road once again, this time going down 71-62. Fran Snyder has another big game, with 22 pts today, Zeinfeld with 19. RIT shoots over 50% from the field for the second straight game.

And spare me the "we beat ourselves" routine. To win against good teams on the road, you need to be solid from the FT line, it appears Utica doesn't perform well from the line in the clutch. Utica lost, deal with it.

RIT, IC, and UC now in a 3 way tie for second place behind SJF.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 28, 2006, 06:31:00 PM
RIT beats Utica, continuing the Pioneers' struggles in Rochester, by a score of 71-62. RIT led most of the way in this and pulled away in the last five minutes. Utica cut the lead to 4 with 5mins remaining, but RIT quickly built the lead up to 10 and coasted to the victory from there.

UCgrad, cool it with the excuses. Utica's FT shooting wasn't atrocious or anything. In fact, RIT's wasn't a ton better.

Utica: 21-32
RIT: 23-31

And from the looks of it, one missed dunk meant absolutely nothing in the result of that game. Instead of blaming your FT shooters or a missed dunk, why don't you throw some fault at the fact Utica allowed RIT to shoot over 50% from the field and 50% from 3's. That probably cost the Pioneers more than any missed dunk/missed FT's/referee(I know you didn't say anything about the refs, I was just pre-emptively dismissing that excuse).

RIT was the better team TODAY(not saying they're the better team, overall, but they were today). The most nauseating excuse in sports is "they didn't win, we lost." What the hell does that mean, anyways?? Do you guys have that bad of inferiority complexes that you can't admit you're beatable? Show some class and move on.

I can't wait to see MadHawk's next post. Who's ready to hear the law of syllogism:

Hartwick beat Naz
Naz beat Fisher
Therefore, Hartwick can beat Fisher(until Fisher bludgeons them by 35 when they play in Rochester)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 28, 2006, 06:43:55 PM
Did I sleep through the apocalypse? Hartwick actually beat Nazareth... holy crap.. GB15, you better be careful, Wick is only halfway from your "I'll never post again" total of 4 wins... what a joke. :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 28, 2006, 06:47:18 PM
Pretty disappointing week for Naz. After beating Fisher @Fisher, they drop 3 straight. @RIT and vs. Utica are understandable losses, but losing at home to Hartwick shouldn't happen to a team with that much talent.

Quality win for Hartwick, especially since they bounced back from taking a 27 point beating @RIT on Friday. Coach Daley will need to do something fast to turn their season around.

But if MadHawk is calling for Hartwick to be a 4 pt. favorite at home vs. RIT after losing by 27, they must be about a 30 point favorite vs. Naz.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 28, 2006, 07:02:54 PM
Quote from: budcrew08 on January 28, 2006, 06:43:55 PM
Did I sleep through the apocalypse? Hartwick actually beat Nazareth... holy crap.. GB15, you better be careful, Wick is only halfway from your "I'll never post again" total of 4 wins... what a joke. :D

Still not worried. Hartwick has a total of two winnable games left on their schedule: @Elmira, vs Naz. I don't think they'll win both. Even if they do get to four games, which they won't, I can't be held to never posting again. Unilateral contracts are not enforceable in the state of Louisiana. I love law school! I'm kidding, I won't post again, but I'm still pretty safe.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 28, 2006, 07:29:25 PM
Just got home from the Fisher-Ithaca game and look at all that has happened...

Tough loss for Naz, not much to say about that...

RIT beats Utica, and I could not be happier. That is a big deal for Fisher because they need to lose to Utica (at home), and another team to possibly give up the #1 seed, which is a huge deal.

As far as the Fisher game goes, they played a lot better then the last game that I went to(naz), but still not their best game. Ithaca made a run in the 2nd half and cut the lead to 10 and 9, but the issue was never really in doubt...

Happy to see the cards bounce back this week after the Naz loss


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 28, 2006, 07:33:48 PM
I'm surprised Ithaca only lost by 13 considering they shot 3-25 from distance. That is horrid.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 28, 2006, 08:10:20 PM
Today's Fisher-IC games were brought to you by the numbers 68 and 55, as SJF won both by the exact same score.  I seem to recall that's happened at an Ithaca girls/guys doubleheader before, too.

Congrats to Hartwick for the road win.  The Hawk Dynasty/Roman Empire is clearly at hand.  I can't roll my eyes far enough for that statement, it's not possible.  But seriously, nice win 'Wick.  Good job.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 28, 2006, 08:15:56 PM
Bombers...Fisher started to take the shot clock down to 5 before shooting with about 13 minutes left for some reason. Ithaca took advantage to some bad Fisher possesions and cut the lead from 22 down to 10 at one point, 9 at another.
I never thought Fisher would lose, but I was impressed with Ithaca's ability to stick around, and ability to extend the game by getting stops and driving to the basket...game wasn't close, but 13 points is probably a fair spread for the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on January 28, 2006, 09:59:23 PM
On a point a couple pages ago by GB15, I'm one of those Fisher fans who thinks that it's nuts that Bryant doesn't get the ball more often. Even after their top 3 scorers fouled out, he STILL wasn't getting the ball.....oh well, their loss.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on January 28, 2006, 10:00:15 PM
Speaking of the "Birdman" (as in the pro player), I laughed seeing him get kicked out of the NBA for drugs....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 28, 2006, 10:11:19 PM
"And from the looks of it, one missed dunk meant absolutely nothing in the result of that game. Instead of blaming your FT shooters or a missed dunk, why don't you throw some fault at the fact Utica allowed RIT to shoot over 50% from the field and 50% from 3's. "

At the time of the dunk, Utica was up by two and on a huge run. They had just missed two free throws, and then blew a dunk off the steal. Dude tried to pull a vince carter-esque jam (windmill) when what was really needed was the sure points. RIT immediately went on a run after that.

I didn't make any excuses. They should have made their shots. Missing the front end on six 1 and 1 attempts didnt help either. Had Utica made their free throws in the second half, they would have had the lead going into the final 4 minutes. No excuse, they simply missed the shots.

Two of the 3's from RIT came with people in their face at NBA range with 1 second on the shot clock late in the game. This game wasn't even decided with 1 minute and 20 seconds left, as Utica blew some more foul shots that would have put them down 4.

Seems to me that you are still a little upset about the drubbing Ithaca recieved in Utica. I made no excuses, simply stated a fact. Utica makes their FT's tonight, they win. They didn't do it. Hence the "very disappointing" comment.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 28, 2006, 10:14:03 PM
Quote from: the bird man on January 28, 2006, 07:29:25 PM
Just got home from the Fisher-Ithaca game and look at all that has happened...

Tough loss for Naz, not much to say about that...

RIT beats Utica, and I could not be happier. That is a big deal for Fisher because they need to lose to Utica (at home), and another team to possibly give up the #1 seed, which is a huge deal.

As far as the Fisher game goes, they played a lot better then the last game that I went to(naz), but still not their best game. Ithaca made a run in the 2nd half and cut the lead to 10 and 9, but the issue was never really in doubt...

Happy to see the cards bounce back this week after the Naz loss




Actually, if Fisher loses to Utica by more than 8 points, and both teams win out in conference, Utica hosts. They would both end up with 2 league losses. The tie breaker is then head to head, which was split. The next tie breaker is point differential (sp?)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 28, 2006, 10:17:26 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 28, 2006, 07:02:54 PM
Quote from: budcrew08 on January 28, 2006, 06:43:55 PM
Did I sleep through the apocalypse? Hartwick actually beat Nazareth... holy crap.. GB15, you better be careful, Wick is only halfway from your "I'll never post again" total of 4 wins... what a joke. :D

Still not worried. Hartwick has a total of two winnable games left on their schedule: @Elmira, vs Naz. I don't think they'll win both. Even if they do get to four games, which they won't, I can't be held to never posting again. Unilateral contracts are not enforceable in the state of Louisiana. I love law school! I'm kidding, I won't post again, but I'm still pretty safe.


I think you are safe. You might not want to make the same bet next season. I figured Hartwick would get their 1 upset. I assumed either Nazareth or Alfred, but was hoping Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on January 28, 2006, 10:19:03 PM
Just got back from ithaca game, the results were never in doubt.  Was a much better and confident fisher  team today then the one that got beat by naz.  Good first half from fisher and again a strong defensive performance by bennett on Bellis.  Fisher would be a much better team if we could teach McSweeney how to shoot foul shots.  Fisher went 10 deep with contributions from almost all with nice contributions from gillette in the first half and mueller in the second

Congratulation to Jim Bellis on his first score of the day that brought him to the 1000 point level.  

Congrats to wick on your win,  I thought you looked respectible when you played fisher earlier in the year.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 28, 2006, 10:23:31 PM
If the tournament were to start today, the teams in it and the seedings look mighty similar to the previous two seasons. I may be wrong, but weren't Fisher, RIT, Utica, and Ithaca the participants in each of the first two tournaments?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 29, 2006, 04:20:28 AM
That is correct, UCgrad. Believe me, I'm not upset about the "drubbing" Ithaca received at Utica. Doesn't that happen every year followed by Ithaca beating Utica in the Bulb? That's pretty much set in stone, isn't it? Good call, NJR, Bellis did achieve the 1,000 point plateau today against Fisher. Bennett did a pretty nice job on him but Jimmy did have 15 today, which is better than how he usually does when Bennett checks him. What I'm really wondering about is why Andruskiewicz is such an afterthought in Ithaca's offense right now. He's one of the few decent big men in this league and they don't give him the ball; I'm mystified by it.

That said, Ithaca is still in good shape to make the E8 tourney which I've said all along should be their goal for the regular season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 29, 2006, 09:47:23 AM
Ok boys I will take it on the chin.  Very dissappointed with the game yesterday.  We were our own worst enemy but RIT had a lot to do with it.  I will have to say that at this point RIT's coach should be the Coach of the year.  They lost all but 1 starter from last season and look at what they have done.

A few thoughts:
1) Ray Bryant is the best player in the league.  I am more convinced now that I have seen Snyder from RIT - I wanted to see him play once this season.  Bryant can do everything.  However we need to beat SJF for him to get the award!
2) If in fact Hartwick's coach was suspended for the RIT game then i give him major props because his kids obviously respond to him.
3) How can anyone possibly vote for anyone other than Cocozziello for rookid of the year.  I have seen Burton and I love my guy (Herring) but please that kid has already led Hartwick to 2 league wins with half of the season to play.  Enough said.  If Burton was on that team and Cocozziello was on Ithaca - Ithaca would be alot better and Hartwick would have 0 wins!  The same could be said for Herring.
4) I still think we are going to win this league.  Only time will tell.
..... and 5) The most exciting thing happening right now is the GBomber count.  I am looking forward to seeing him squirm a bit.  My money is on Wick to get past 4 wins.  Bomber you better post an awful lot the next few weeks because your life span on here is very short.
They play Alfred, Elmira, and Ithaca on the road (all teams they can beat) and then they play RIT and Naz at home.  Thank you for making this interesting.

As for the league we need to take care of business versus Alfred on Friday, and then the game for the league will be on Saturday.

Hey Mad Hawk - Where are you?  You finally win a game and you don't post?????????????

Congrats buddy!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 29, 2006, 10:40:43 AM
"not upset about the "drubbing" Ithaca received at Utica. Doesn't that happen every year followed by Ithaca beating Utica in the Bulb? That's pretty much set in stone, isn't it? Good call, NJR, Bellis did achieve the 1,000 point plateau today against Fisher."

Just some friendly ribbing. Congratulations to Bellis.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 29, 2006, 11:50:08 AM
Clear - ouch!
Hawk-Dear god-you won-and haven't posted?
GB15-Oh well-glad Fisher won- they still need to improve though!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 29, 2006, 01:07:54 PM
Not sure Hartwick can beat Ithaca in the Bulb. Ithaca handled them at Hartwick and the Bombers are 10x better at home, usually. Time will tell.

I'm just proud of myself for being able to write a coherent sentence, last night/early this morning, after about 5 hand grenades. Things are potent!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 29, 2006, 01:54:25 PM
Very nice win for the Tigers yesterday.  I wasn't able to go to the game so I don't have much more to say about it other than it bothers me that no one from the Sports Info department at RIT has posted the score of that game here yet.  There's a fine wrap-up here:  http://www.ritathletics.com/News/mbb/2006/1/28/mbb012806.asp?path=mbb

And the excuses are crap.  All the evidence points to RIT out-playing them, including the under-sized Tigers outrebounding Utica by 11. 

Hard to imagine anything other than an E8 tourney at Fisher again this year.  Will be tough for anyone to beat them there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 29, 2006, 02:03:31 PM
Bamm, I wish Clear was as understanding as you
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 29, 2006, 02:55:06 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 29, 2006, 01:54:25 PM
Very nice win for the Tigers yesterday.  I wasn't able to go to the game so I don't have much more to say about it other than it bothers me that no one from the Sports Info department at RIT has posted the score of that game here yet.  There's a fine wrap-up here:  http://www.ritathletics.com/News/mbb/2006/1/28/mbb012806.asp?path=mbb

And the excuses are crap.  All the evidence points to RIT out-playing them, including the under-sized Tigers outrebounding Utica by 11. 

Hard to imagine anything other than an E8 tourney at Fisher again this year.  Will be tough for anyone to beat them there.

Perhaps we read a different link.

I'm not sure if some here understand the definition of an excuse. An excuse would have been "we would have made our foul shots if we werent so tired from the game before, while RIT played Hartwick and rested most of their players". Nothing like that was said. There were no excuses made, we should have made our foul shots and converted the easy two points. It was a huge momentum swing, as the very article you posted pointed out "The Pioneers had a golden change to go up six when Bryant stole an errant Tiger pass and had a clear breakaway.  His one-handed tomahawk dunk went off the back of the rim and caromed to Colin Roy (Malta, NY/Malta).  Roy whirled and found Snyder alone at the other end for the easy lay-up and a 35-33 score.  RIT scored the next six points to go up 39-35 and never trailed after that."


Also, "The Tigers turned the ball over 20 times to Utica's nine.  " Doesn't seem to point to any "dominance" on RIT's part. They played a good game, as you have to in order to beat Utica, but even they will admit our horrendous FT showing and the blown dunk were huge.

"The Tigers received a scare with 1:07 left in the first half, when Zeinfeld suffered an injury, as he collided with Utica's Justin Cichon.  He limped off the court, but returned to start the second half."

This is a funny line, as most people agree that Jerry intentionally fouled Cichon hard on that very play.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 29, 2006, 03:00:13 PM
Justin Cichon became Utica's 2nd all team leading scorer on saturday.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 29, 2006, 03:06:35 PM
Letting RIT shoot over 50% from the field and 50% from the 3-pt line as well as getting outrebounded by a much smaller team were also huge.

Those look like a sign of being outworked more than anything, especially on the boards.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 29, 2006, 03:18:22 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 28, 2006, 05:59:40 PM
Utica decides to miss an insane number of FT and blow a wide open dunk to beat themselves.

They didn't beat themselves, RIT beat them.  As gb15 pointed out, Utica shot 21-32, not exactly "horrendous".  You also said:

Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 28, 2006, 10:11:19 PM
I made no excuses, simply stated a fact. Utica makes their FT's tonight, they win. They didn't do it. Hence the "very disappointing" comment.

Since RIT "only" shot 23-31 and still won by nine, couldn't an RIT fan say "we would have blown them out if we made our FT's"?

It seems the Utica fans are a bit testy after their "we're a different team this year, we'll win in Rochester" claims proved false.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 29, 2006, 03:45:40 PM
Considering that we missed six front end of one and ones, you might as well add another 6 attempts we would have had. They also were missed at key times of the game, greatly shifting momentum as most lead to 4 or 5 point turn arounds.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 29, 2006, 03:47:26 PM
So yes you might have beaten yourself. but this adds to fact that if you can't beat the weaker of the two big rochester teams then your gonna have a hell of a chance against Fisher at Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 29, 2006, 04:36:51 PM
Quote from: superman57 on January 29, 2006, 03:47:26 PM
So yes you might have beaten yourself. but this adds to fact that if you can't beat the weaker of the two big rochester teams then your gonna have a hell of a chance against Fisher at Fisher.

By that logic, I could just as easily claim we can beat Fisher at Fisher because naz beat them there and we beat naz on the road. I could even say Hartwick has a chance to beat Fisher at Fisher because they beat Naz on the road.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 29, 2006, 05:03:30 PM
yes but then you are negating the fact that Naz is next door to fisher and Fisher's biggest rival.  This is by far the biggest rival in the Empire 8 and these teams get fired up to play each other, this was Naz's national championship game.  I don't see utica or hartwick getting the crowd support or the emotion to beat fisher.  I hope that birdman and anyone else who was at the Fisher-Naz game can back me up. One I doubt that the Fisher utica or Fisher Hartwick games will sell-out,  Fisher Naz always sells out during the womens game.  So yes Hartwick could beat fisher and Utica could beat fisher BUT the game is different
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hoopfan17 on January 29, 2006, 05:16:41 PM
Just want to say congratulations to Hartwick for a great win at Nazareth.  Cocozziello played a great game, not to mention they were successful without Anthony Brown (their second leading scorer and leading rebounder) due to illness. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on January 29, 2006, 05:37:26 PM
 
Superman, naz did playlike it was their championship game, fisher let them hang around and never put them away.  Emotion of the crowd was high and the atmosphere electric.  It was a fun game even with a fisher loss.  I look forward to the return game at Naz.  It's naz's home court but do not believe that naz can muster the strenght to beat fisher two times in a row.   Naz played real well to win and to comeback especialy with Canori being shut down by Bennett.   (I predict that Bennett keeps Canori to under 10 the second time) Fisher Alum was correct in saying good wins for Fisher this weekend but they do need to improeve, make foul shots and put teams away in order to go into the the Empire Eight tournament the Elite team of the league.

Yes Bellis did have 15 but only 9 from the floor and two of that was the fast break 2 point layup that brought Bellis to 1000 points.  Six of the points were foul shots, so I still think Bennet did a great job on Bellis and should be considered as defensive player of the year
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on January 29, 2006, 09:07:19 PM
All I have to say is that even Hartwick might have a chance of beating Syracuse.....they're pretty even. And that's not praise on Hartwick.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 29, 2006, 10:09:20 PM
That Hartwick over Naz score, at Naz, is mind-boggling.  Having seen both teams play, there is no doubt in my mind that Naz has better players at every position.  Just wow.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 29, 2006, 10:20:02 PM
NJR, 15 is 15, no matter how they come. Scorers find a way to score, it's the defender's job to stop him. Nobody is saying Bennett didn't do a good job on him, we're just saying Bellis did better than he usually does against Bennett.

By the way, watching the webcast of the game I noticed that Fisher's white uniforms look very Stanford-esque (especially the shorts). Did Fisher get new white uni's this year? I remember their whites from last year or the year before looked kinda old and the size of the shorts and jerseys weren't nearly as baggy as they are now.

Superman and UCgrad, no point in continuing to use syllogistic(A beat B, B beat C, therefore A will beat C) logic to figure out who will win in next weekend's Utica/Fisher game. You guys should know enough about sports to know that's not the way things work. Things like matchups and atmosphere can and do have an impact on the game. If anyone remembers, last year Caz Bombers found a way, through 13 degrees of separation, that would prove Hartwick (2-24 last year) would "beat" North Carolina (D1 nat'l champs). How many of us really think Hartwick could have stayed within 60 of UNC last year? Put your hand down, MadHawk. Bottom line, that line of logic is fallacious at best when used in a sporting realm, as evidenced by Caz's example.

UCgrad, I just don't think your FT argument carries much weight. Going into yesterday's game, Utica was shooting 66.1% from the FT line; yesterday, they shot 65.6%. They shot their FT's almost exactly the same as they have all season! The fact that six of the misses were front-ends is irrelevant to me, too. Free-throws are a part of the game, one of the easiest too, so if you can't make your FT's you're usually not that good of a team, right? It sounds like RIT simply outworked a Utica team that was far bigger and more athletic than the Tigers. That falls on the players and coaches, not on any missed FT's or missed dunks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 29, 2006, 11:02:30 PM
GB15 thanks for the 16 degree's of sepperation, but I think I was trying to prove a point and I realize that it is a game and anything can happen, (see North Dakota State beating Wisconsin and Hartwick winning any games at all)  I was trying to prove that if you can't beat the weaker of the two strong rochester teams in rochester then you will have a rough time with the number 22 team in the country who has already beaten you once.








P.S. I was only joking about hartwick
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 30, 2006, 08:50:58 AM
My my the board is testy.  RIT beat us!  there is that good enough for everyone.

I still think we are going to the tourny - so I guess that means we whave to beat Fisher at Fisher.  There I said that too.  We have the best player and a good coach and this is our year.

Hey MadHawk did you kill yourself in celebrating?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 30, 2006, 09:58:16 AM
Clear,
You aren't even on the national radar.
You expect to get there how?
Beating SJF in Rochester and remain undefeated the rest of the season?
That is a tall order.
BTW- I loved the way the OD tucked the UC loss to RIT on page 4 of the Sunday paper!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 30, 2006, 10:00:27 AM
I think MadHawk had two beers in celebration of Hartwick's win over Naz and he's probably still too hungover to post.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 30, 2006, 10:09:31 AM
"Superman and UCgrad, no point in continuing to use syllogistic(A beat B, B beat C, therefore A will beat C) logic to figure out who will win in next weekend's Utica/Fisher game. You guys should know enough about sports to know that's not the way things work. Things like matchups and atmosphere can and do have an impact on the game"

I was being sarcastic to show superman that his claim didn't hold water.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 30, 2006, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 30, 2006, 09:58:16 AM
Clear,
You aren't even on the national radar.
You expect to get there how?
Beating SJF in Rochester and remain undefeated the rest of the season?
That is a tall order.
BTW- I loved the way the OD tucked the UC loss to RIT on page 4 of the Sunday paper!


Utica beats Oswego and Fisher, and they have then beaten and/or are one of one of the top two teams in the liberty league, SUNYACS and Empire 8 respectively. That would be huge in considering an at large bid. A few years ago Fisher was not quite on the national radar either, had Utica beat them in the championship game, which they lost by three at Fisher, Fisher likely would have had an at large bid.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 30, 2006, 10:35:10 AM
UC grad45,
Still, you have to win out.
Aint goin to happen!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 30, 2006, 10:43:12 AM
I agree with Fisheralum. In order for Utica to get an at-large bid they probably have to beat Fisher and Oswego at their places. If Utica doesn't beat Ithaca in the Bulb--it's going to be a close game--then even if they do beat Fisher and Oswego, they have no shot at an at-large. All that said, if Utica gets blownout in the E8 final, I wouldn't be surprised if they were snubbed.

In other words, they need to win the rest of their regular season games and play Fisher close in the E8 final if they want an at-large. That loss at RIT was fairly damaging for those hopes.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woot on January 30, 2006, 11:19:51 AM
fisher looks too tough right now for utica. great turnaround season though for utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on January 30, 2006, 03:41:22 PM
clear, I didn't realize Hartwick had the best player in the league.  Who is it?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 30, 2006, 06:57:51 PM
I don't think Hartwick has the best player in the league, but Jan Coccozziello is one of the better freshmen in the league.

BTW, MadHawk where are you? I can't believe you haven't posted since the victory. Come on man, everyone wants to hear what you've got to say about Hartwick's rise to the top of the E8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 30, 2006, 07:49:13 PM
I am starting a pool of what happened to Mad Hawk,
6-1 While at the Naz game saw the fisher campus and decided to transfer to a real winner
5-2-Met Clear at a local bar  and admited his true love
even money-Bamm met him at the naz game then gagged him and threw him in a closet somewhere at RIT

Please do not take offesence to this post it is just joking with everybody
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 30, 2006, 08:37:50 PM
Superman, you're just lobbing that one up there for everyone to hit out of the park. I have a ton of work to do or else I could probably come up with odds for about 40 things that could have potentially happened to MadHawk. I'll just do a couple for now.

35-1: At the RIT game, met a female student as ugly as him and ran off with her. He knew it was love at first sight when she took him up on his offer to listen to him recite every Hartwick starting guard since the 1973 season.

6-1: Went to Paradise Alley to celebrate 'Wick's victory over Naz. While sipping his water he proceeded to give the two bouncers a 30-minute narrative on the "History of Hartwick Basketball." About two minutes into his speech, he was forcibly carried to the bathroom where he's been attempting to remove himself from the toilet ever since.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 30, 2006, 09:02:20 PM
Quote from: rjcarter8 on January 30, 2006, 06:57:51 PM
I don't think Hartwick has the best player in the league, but Jan Coccozziello is one of the better freshmen in the league.

BTW, MadHawk where are you? I can't believe you haven't posted since the victory. Come on man, everyone wants to hear what you've got to say about Hartwick's rise to the top of the E8.

I agree that he is one of the better freshmen. I don't think he is the best freshman however. He has a lot of athletic ability, and plays very hard. However, he really needs to refine his game. As he matures, he could easily develop into the best player in the conference. Right now however, he makes a lot of freshman mistakes that other freshmen in the league are not making. It could be attributed to trying to do to much to make up for the overall lack of talent on his team. It will be interesting to see what he does his senior year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on January 30, 2006, 09:07:26 PM
So if Utica doesnt get an at-large bid...which will be very very difficult...whose to say they can't win the E8 tourny.  Anything can happen come tournament time. 

Fisheralumn....really when does the OD put UC basketball games anywhere but the 4th page (if they put the scores in at all!)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on January 30, 2006, 09:14:19 PM
Hey Hartwick, You are not playing coy and waiting to win 2 games in a row are ya?  Hate to burst your bubble but next game Friday night is at Fisher.  You better post now whille the getting is good!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 31, 2006, 08:09:54 AM
Lileyes,
The last time UC b'ball got cres was when they beat Hamilton, and it seems just like their other local coverages (Yankees, Rangers, Bills etc) if the team loses it gets put back a few pages.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2006, 10:30:37 AM
People point to the empire 8 not getting an at large bid before. However, we havn't had two teams finish with as good a record as the possibility of two teams finishing this season.

If Utica beats Oswego, there is a good chance that an at large bid could come down to a Hamilton, Oswego, or other top teams in their respective conferences, or Utica (of course Utica can still win the conference, Fisher did not look good at all and escaped feeling extremely lucky). If it does, and Utica has wins over the top teams in those leagues, they then hold the advantage over any teams in said leagues.

Regardless, this is a huge weekend in empire 8 action for all the teams. It's pretty clear that any team in the conference can lose to any other team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2006, 10:38:10 AM
Except to Elmira.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on January 31, 2006, 11:04:37 AM
Booyah Folks!
I am back!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was just a matter of time....

After a frusterating Friday night at RIT, the Hawks bounced back to shock Nazareth on Saturday. Kudos to the Hartwick coaching staff who must have really motivated the Hawks after their loss to RIT. What makes the win even sweeter is 1) it was on the road in Rochester 2) the Hawks were able to compete with a hostile crowd on hand. The Hawks are halfway through the Empire 8 season and I couldn't be more proud. With the exception of 2 or 3 halves the Hawks have been able to compete thus far this season. The young Hartwick squad is doing much better this season. In fact I think the Hawks are under-achieving!

There are seven more conference games, with none of them being un-winnable games. The Hawks finally have a base to work from. The season is far from being over for the Hawks, as the conference players is still in sight.


Lastly, I would like to publicly thank the board of directors, administration, athletic department of Nazareth for hosting such an exciting college basketball game on Saturday.

MadHawk (aka Uncle Booyah)
Hartwick Basketball Empire
Public Relations


Hawks Win!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 31, 2006, 11:16:52 AM
We all knew that it was just a matter of time didn't we :P
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 31, 2006, 11:51:08 AM
MadHawk, I smited your piddly ass because of the obnoxiousness of the size of that Booyah. That is really unnecessary.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2006, 12:37:21 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2006, 10:38:10 AM
Except to Elmira.

That is awesome.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 31, 2006, 01:05:50 PM
In reply to somebody's talk of odds about 15 posts up the board or so....

Odds Mad Hawk walks around Oneonta dressed like/walking like/talking like/wanting to be like Jamie Kennedy in Malibu's Most Wanted....even money.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on January 31, 2006, 01:58:06 PM
My name is Mad-Hawk.
Not Robbie van Winkle.
I like my lattes non-fat
and don't fo-get the sprinkle.

Congradulations to Fran Snyder on the RACA player of week, I'm suprised they counted the stats against Hartwick though.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 31, 2006, 06:02:14 PM
Unless I missed something, I never said Cocozziello was or Hartwick had the best player in the league.
I said we had the best player in the league, Ray Bryant.  It isn't even close.  He is the best player.  I believe that is what I said earlier.

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2006, 06:07:26 PM
I will reserve comment untill watching Bryant play, but Bellis played very well against the best defensive player in the league (Bennett).  despite going 1-12 against fisher Canori obviously was the focal point of the Naz offense, and Alfred would be one hell of a team if they just gave Q. Bryant the ball let him score 18-19 a game and Alfred would be a dominating team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on January 31, 2006, 06:32:38 PM
Only a Hartwick fan could get this excited about a win against a Naz team that will probably not even make the empire 8 tourny...good god.

Granted Fisher lost to Naz, but come on, they are still naz...lets move on madhawk.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2006, 07:04:05 PM
Quote from: the bird man on January 31, 2006, 06:32:38 PM
Only a Hartwick fan could get this excited about a win against a Naz team that will probably not even make the empire 8 tourny...good god.

Granted Fisher lost to Naz, but come on, they are still naz...lets move on madhawk.

Chris Andersen posts on d3hoops.com? He does have a lot of time on his hands now, I guess. Still one of the best NBA moments ever when, before the dunk contest, he told the broadcaster,"The Bird Man is about to take flight," then proceeded to miss every dunk. I can proudly say I saw that moment live and it doesn't get much better than that.

However, I had my hopes through the roof that I could make a sign commemorating that moment when the Hornets are back in New Orleans at the end of the season, but Bird Man likes the grass a little too much.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on January 31, 2006, 09:08:22 PM
 Welcome Back Cotter, I mean Hawk.
As I await the State of the Union Address by President Bush I am struck by the parallels between Hawk and the President.  First of all they are both unifiers, the original claim by Pres Bush during his first quest for the presidency.  This week the rest of us were left waiting for the return of Hawk to unify us against Hartwick on the D3Blog.   Tonight the President speaks to a country trying to put the best spin possible on the war in Iraq trying to continue to justify our presence their.  Hawk returns to us tonight trying to parlay one win over Nazareth into a championship season ad to continue to justify keeping Hartwick in the collegiate ranks of the Empire 8 league.

Booyah

Bring it on Bubba
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2006, 10:03:11 PM
I'm at the library so I'm missing the speech, but I'm more anxious to hear his spin on the fact that some areas in New Orleans haven't much improved from the days immediately after the hurricane. I don't blame it solely on him, as the layers of governmental bureaucracy are thick, but it definitely happened on his watch and he's done little more than lip service to get this place fixed. Ask Kanye West why New Orleans is still suffering. Oh man, Ray Nagin and Dubya working together to get something accomplished...ponder that for a moment.

Ok, enough with the political rant. Ithaca get a nice little road win tonight, beating Oneonta, 69-64. Either Jim Mullins or Brian Andruskiewicz reads this board because after my tirade about why Andruskiewicz isn't more involved in the offense, he goes off for 22 pts and 16 rebs. Coming into this year, I thought those would be the numbers he'd put up every third game. Considering his first three years, there's absolutely no reason he couldn't put up averages close to 17 and 8. He's a less athletic version of Ty Schultz but with a better jumper and right-handed. Ok, fine, they aren't much alike other than the fact they're both good. I hope this continues for the rest of the season, this would make Ithaca a much tougher team. Oh, and Jimmy Bellis had 23 points, too. He's a mortal lock for 1st Team All-E8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 31, 2006, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: notjoshreed on January 31, 2006, 09:08:22 PM
As I await the State of the Union Address by President Bush I am struck by the parallels between Hawk and the President. 

Thinking of about seventy other similarities but holding my tongue...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2006, 11:22:31 PM
Say what you will, that was a great speech.

"Hindsight is not wisdom, and second guessing is not a strategy".
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2006, 11:51:11 PM
No need for second-guessing when the President of your own country has abandoned a major city (see rejection of the Baker Bill), most can catch that on their "first guess." This state is going to resemble a 3rd World Country for next 20 years and don't tell me he isn't partially to blame for such.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 01, 2006, 12:30:39 AM
Wasn't a road win, GB15.  The game was at the Bulb...which causes me to raise an eyebrow that we only won by 5 against a bottom-dwelling SUNYAC team.

I thought Oneonta was primed for big things this year, big by O-State's standards meaning top 4 in SUNYAC, doesn't seem to have happened.  It is good to see #4 for O-State having a strong senior year (he had 18 points to lead the Dragons tonight), he's a former colleague and friend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 01, 2006, 08:21:17 AM
Good weekend to be at SJF.
Hartwick appetizer and UC for the main course.
Varsity gym should be loud!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 01, 2006, 09:21:06 AM
conceit, my bad.  I glad you weren't talking about Hartwick, and to make it up I'm going to campaign for Ray as player of the year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on February 01, 2006, 10:08:27 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 01, 2006, 08:21:17 AM
Good weekend to be at SJF.
Hartwick appetizer and UC for the main course.
Varsity gym should be loud!!

Alternatively there could an upset or two:

Marquette downed UCONN

Georgetown downed DUKE

West Virginia downed NOVA

Texas downed NOVA

and of course

Naz downed FISHER

and don't forget

the Minutemen downed the British in the American Revolution

Under Dogs Can Win in College Basketball & History!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 01, 2006, 10:12:09 AM
Listen here my dorm-ridden, hill climbing, delusional friend,
It...won't...happen!!!
The teams that you mentioned that pulled the upsets actually had talent!
You have 1 player.
Wake up and smell the dorm food.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 01, 2006, 10:16:55 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 01, 2006, 08:21:17 AM
Good weekend to be at SJF.
Hartwick appetizer and UC for the main course.
Varsity gym should be loud!!

UC for the main course my ass. Hopefully, Utica can pull off the upset... I guess it would be considered an upset.

I will go out on a limb here (big limb!) and say that Fisher destroys Hartwick by 25 points. Give it to Fisher 85-60.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 01, 2006, 10:18:34 AM
I'm not saying that UC can't pull the upset. I just was inferring that it was the better game!
Geez crew where is the love?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 01, 2006, 12:56:40 PM
UC will need to play a perfect game and hartwick will need to have the starting five of fisher all come down with the same exact mystirous disease that they can't find a cure too.  and to say that since Naz beat fisher Hartwick can beat fisher is a load of BS, because the Hartwick fisher game will be very tame compared to the Fisher Naz.  By the way its looking like all four games this weekend will be broadcasted over the internet.  As I get more info  I will post the site on here.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 01, 2006, 01:14:32 PM
Superman-I must say that it is really hard to understand the Fisher/Naz relationship unless you go to Fisher or Naz.  Whan I played for Fisher vs Naz in soccer we had bench clearing brawls 2 years running!!  It wasn't and still (from what I hear) isn't pretty!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 01, 2006, 01:55:20 PM
I know the best that I can explain it as is UNC-Duke or something like that, but I think that there is even more hatred than that between the two schools.  I was in Fairport Hots last year and some kids from Naz tried to start a fight with the fisher students
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2006, 01:59:14 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2006, 11:51:11 PM
No need for second-guessing when the President of your own country has abandoned a major city (see rejection of the Baker Bill), most can catch that on their "first guess." This state is going to resemble a 3rd World Country for next 20 years and don't tell me he isn't partially to blame for such.

Actually, if you look into the history of the state and city, you will find that the local and state governments have been democrats, and extremely corrupt. There was money that was supposed to go to making the levees strong enough to withstand a level 5 approved several times. Somehow, that money never made it there, and the public officials mysteriously lived well above their means. This went on for over a century. In fact, in the hurricanes aftermath, one of the democrat legislators in the city forced national guard troops to go to his house, and wait outside for almost an hour while he collected his personal belongings. These are the stories that we rarely hear in our mainstream media, because they contradict the agenda we have forced down our thorats on a daily basis.

Even more interesting was the finding that Katrina was not a level 5 when it hit NO. It was down to a level 4.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 01, 2006, 02:18:28 PM
Superman,
It happened on a weekly basis!
When you went into east roch to the bars Fisher had theirs and Naz had theirs- and never the two shall meet.  Too bad too- some of those Naz chicks were hot!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2006, 02:48:35 PM
UCgrad, if you go back and look at my posts from yesterday you'll see I said it wasn't ALL his fault. I understand the history of New Orleans government and the corruption it entails. Money that should have gone to levee improvement never found its way there cannot be blamed solely on Dems or Republicans. They learned a very hard lesson.

However, my argument is that the President doesn't recognize the magnitude of the problem down here. Just because it isn't on the news 24 hours/day, doesn't mean that things are alright. He said 163 words of 5,300 word speech about the problems on the Gulf Coast? Are you joking? THIS should have been the crux of his address, not some mention-in-passing, "we're gonna get it done" paragraph. The federal response has been haphazard at best and an utter failure at worse. To say otherwise, is an absolute joke. The President denied a bill(Baker bill) that passed in Congress. This bill would have put life in the region's economic infrastructure. Instead, W essentially signed the region's death certificate for the near future.

Anyways, this isn't a forum for this talk. Most intriguing games this weekend:

1)Fisher v. Utica
2)Ithaca @ RIT

I think those are probably the four E8 tourney participants.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 01, 2006, 03:05:19 PM
While I think the conversation on the Gulf Coast, New Orleans, and the President in general is an interesting one (lord knows Bamm could write a few pages on the subject himself), I'm more interested in games for this weekend.

Will Utica be able to come back to Rochester and get a win vs. Fisher? I have to image that the Alfred/SJF is the toughest road trip in terms of travel for Utica. If Alfred gives UC any trouble at all, will they be able to bounce back vs. what should be a rested SJF (because they are going to kill Hartwick)? I think Utica will be up for this game, but I think Fisher gets by at home.

As far as the Ithaca vs. RIT game, RIT has been playing pretty well as of late, and Ithaca is not the same team on the road. If Fran Snyder can continue is return to "Evil Fran" form, I think RIT pulls this one out as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 01, 2006, 03:31:10 PM
GB15, I agree with your assessment of the weekend games, though I'm sure MadHawk  will disagree, because he knows Hartwick is going to start its run to the NCAA Division III championship with a victory over Fisher Friday.

Gee, I wonder how big the booyah will be this time.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 01, 2006, 03:31:54 PM
Over the last three and a half seasons Fisher is 41-2 at their place.  I think I'll take the Cardinals, and by a comfortable margin.

By the way, the two losses were to Naz this year and Hamilton to end their '02/'03 season.

The RIT / Ithaca game should be more enjoyable.  If the Tigers continue their hot shooting I don't see them losing at home.  I'll take them by 5.  

Still unproven against good competition on the road, I would say Utica should worry about Alfred on Friday night, but what gives with the Saxons being taken to the wire by Elmira?  

UCGrad:  "Even more interesting was the finding that Katrina was not a level 5 when it hit NO. It was down to a level 4. "

I'm struggling to figure out why that's interesting.  Does that mean GB15's fridge is going to come in sooner?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 01, 2006, 03:37:05 PM
Bamm,

I'll give you a two word answer to your Alfred-Elmira question: Bad Coaching.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 01, 2006, 03:39:00 PM
That answer doesn't suprise me.  Alfred seems to consistently have good talent and a poor record.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 01, 2006, 03:52:03 PM
Poor coaching is Alfred's MO.

A few years back they had the most talented team in the league (Downey, Docteur, Stortini, etc.) and couldn't get it done. They did have some injuries but they never seemed to put a great season together. Pretty depressing for Alfred fans, probably a blessing for the rest of the league.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 01, 2006, 04:59:40 PM
tigerfan, any year that Reggie Shore was in the league they could have only been considered the second most talented team.  But yes, I'll give them that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on February 01, 2006, 07:43:04 PM
Everyone is talking how much Fisher will kill Hartwick,I think the two games are so important to Fisher that they my be under alot of pressure and both games may be close. I really think they will win both games,I will be there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2006, 10:16:44 PM
Fisher can sleepwalk through the Hartwick game and win by 25. My early lines for this weekend's games (home team in CAPS)

Friday

FISHER -22.5 vs Hartwick
Utica -6.5 @ ALFRED
Ithaca -5 @ NAZ
RIT -24 vs Elmira

Saturday

ALFRED -8 vs Hartwick
NAZ -15.5 vs Elmira
RIT -7 vs Ithaca
FISHER -4.5 vs Utica
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 02, 2006, 07:31:13 AM
GB15,
I like the vote of confidence against wick, but I'll put the line at 15.
I like Fisher at home over Utica by 6 because the road ain't been kind to UC.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 02, 2006, 10:22:54 AM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on February 01, 2006, 03:52:03 PM
Poor coaching is Alfred's MO.

A few years back they had the most talented team in the league (Downey, Docteur, Stortini, etc.) and couldn't get it done. They did have some injuries but they never seemed to put a great season together. Pretty depressing for Alfred fans, probably a blessing for the rest of the league.

Man this is the understatement of the year.  Devin Downey was incredible.  How they didn't walk through the league every season they had him was always beyond me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2006, 07:41:08 PM
My picks for this weekend:

Friday

Fisher 84  Hartwick 61
Utica 69  Alfred 65
RIT 82  Elmira 60
Ithaca 74  Naz 68

Saturday

Alfred 70  Hartwick 64
Naz 83  Elmira 72
RIT 72 Ithaca 66
Fisher 75  Utica 65
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on February 03, 2006, 08:55:18 AM
9 Freshmen
1 Sophmore
3 Juniors (2 of whom are transfers)
2 Seniors (1 transfer)

3 Returners
12 New Players

Starters
Youngest Starting 5 in the E8 (No prior seasons of experience)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
Booyah

Tonight is Battle of the Beaks...Part II

Fisher won the first battle. It is possible the Hawks could take the second

The Hawks will take their 1 game winning streak to the campus of St. John Fisher tonight. While Fisher is a tough team, they are by no means unbeatable (Case in point Nazareth). Who beat Naz last weekend? The Hawks!!!!! Enough said

Tomorrow the Hawks will have a very winnable game against the Saxtons. Enough Said

Remember it's college basketball Baby! Upsets DO happen!



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 03, 2006, 09:09:05 AM
Quote from: Mad Hawk on February 03, 2006, 08:55:18 AM
9 Freshmen
1 Sophmore
3 Juniors (2 of whom are transfers)
2 Seniors (1 transfer)

3 Returners
12 New Players

Starters
Youngest Starting 5 in the E8 (No prior seasons of experience)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
Booyah

Tonight is Battle of the Beaks...Part II

Fisher won the first battle. It is possible the Hawks could take the second

The Hawks will take their 1 game winning streak to the campus of St. John Fisher tonight. While Fisher is a tough team, they are by no means unbeatable (Case in point Nazareth). Who beat Naz last weekend? The Hawks!!!!! Enough said

Tomorrow the Hawks will have a very winnable game against the Saxtons. Enough Said

Remember it's college basketball Baby! Upsets DO happen!





I hope Hartwick loses both games by 30.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2006, 09:52:23 AM
They will lose both games and then we'll laugh at MadHawk. Didn't you all love some of the "big upsets" at the D1 level he cited as evidence for why Hartwick could pull upsets. For instance, WVU beating Villanova. I mean, WVU wasn't ranked in the pre-season top 10 were they? What, they were? My bad. Or how about Texas "pulling an upset." Texas was ranked #2 preseason, how is any game they win an "upset." Or Marquette beating UConn when that was UConn's PG's first game back during the season and Marquette shot something like 60% from 3's.

The big difference between all those teams and Hartwick is that those D1 teams have very talented players. There is no Mike Gansey or Daniel Gibson or Steve Novak on Hartwick, believe it or not. All those guys on the teams MadHawk mentioned are competent-to-excellent D1 players. Hartwick has two above-average players and a bunch of hacks. How does Hartwick have a chance to beat Fisher? Give me one plausible situation that does not entail Fisher starters getting into an accident on 490 that would allow Hartwick to stay within 20 points tonight. I'm serious, I want to hear it.

Cocozziello is gonna get locked up Bennett and that game is going to be over by half. Though if you look at some of his games, he seems to be a great garbage time scorer, so he's got that going for him...which is nice.

Fisher by 25 tonight, Alfred by 10'ish tomorrow. You're still a 7th place team, MadHawk, know your role.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 03, 2006, 10:07:15 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2006, 09:52:23 AM
They will lose both games and then we'll laugh at MadHawk. Didn't you all love some of the "big upsets" at the D1 level he cited as evidence for why Hartwick could pull upsets. For instance, WVU beating Villanova. I mean, WVU wasn't ranked in the pre-season top 10 were they? What, they were? My bad. Or how about Texas "pulling an upset." Texas was ranked #2 preseason, how is any game they win an "upset." Or Marquette beating UConn when that was UConn's PG's first game back during the season and Marquette shot something like 60% from 3's.

The big difference between all those teams and Hartwick is that those D1 teams have very talented players. There is no Mike Gansey or Daniel Gibson or Steve Novak on Hartwick, believe it or not. All those guys on the teams MadHawk mentioned are competent-to-excellent D1 players. Hartwick has two above-average players and a bunch of hacks. How does Hartwick have a chance to beat Fisher? Give me one plausible situation that does not entail Fisher starters getting into an accident on 490 that would allow Hartwick to stay within 20 points tonight. I'm serious, I want to hear it.

Cocozziello is gonna get locked up Bennett and that game is going to be over by half. Though if you look at some of his games, he seems to be a great garbage time scorer, so he's got that going for him...which is nice.

Fisher by 25 tonight, Alfred by 10'ish tomorrow. You're still a 7th place team, MadHawk, know your role.

Good rant, but you only came up with Mike Gansey for WVU? How could you forget Kevin Pittsnogle???
The only guy playing whose name is now a verb: "You've just been Pittsnogled!"
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 03, 2006, 10:16:21 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2006, 09:52:23 AM
Give me one plausible situation that does not entail Fisher starters getting into an accident on 490 that would allow Hartwick to stay within 20 points tonight. I'm serious, I want to hear it.

Actually, I'm not even sure that would help.  I'm pretty confident that Auman, Gillette and the rest of Fisher's second team could handle Hartwick.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 03, 2006, 10:19:05 AM
All I can say is that when I went to Fisher, the only thing that steamrolled both the soccer AND football team was a nasty case of food poisioning.  That sucked!  We were violently sick for 2 days!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 03, 2006, 11:17:46 AM
You don't get out much do ya hawk?

Too bad- some great bars there in O-town.

You will lose big tonight my little weird dorm gnome!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 03, 2006, 12:23:47 PM
There's no need for the big blank space in your post, Mad Hawk.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 03, 2006, 12:41:37 PM
Oooooooo,
Hawk now you dunnit!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 03, 2006, 01:17:28 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on February 01, 2006, 03:52:03 PM
Poor coaching is Alfred's MO.

A few years back they had the most talented team in the league (Downey, Docteur, Stortini, etc.) and couldn't get it done. They did have some injuries but they never seemed to put a great season together. Pretty depressing for Alfred fans, probably a blessing for the rest of the league.

As a lifelong Saxon fan, I can't argue with you here. AU kids play hard. And they're talented. But seldom do I see, if any at all, tactical changes. No real strategy. I don't think I've seen AU in a zone defense in years, but then, I'm not a D3 basketball coach so I really don't know anything.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 03, 2006, 02:36:48 PM
Hey hawk so you can listen to the sure demise of the Hartwick empire www.teamline.cc type in St. John Fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2006, 04:05:48 PM
MadHawk Accepts Position as Iraqi Minister of Information

Early this afternoon, the government of Iraq announced that MadHawk has been named to the post of Iraqi Minister of Information. MadHawk assumes the position left vacant by the capture of Muhammad Saeed al-Sahaaf shortly after the United States' invasion of the country.

Al-Sahaaf, remembered fondly by Americans for his "rah rah" attitude and his heavily propagondized messages to the Iraqi people, has left large shoes to fill. "He was a really an icon to me when I was growing up," says MadHawk, his successor, "no matter what the truth was, he taught me to just 'deny, deny, deny and hope some people eventually start believing you.' "

Members of the Iraqi committee in charge of electing a new Minister of Information feel the country has found the perfect man for the job. "MadHawk's firm disregard for facts and his ability to make new and innovative excuses really set him apart from the competition," agreed new Iraqi President, Jalal Tabani. The President, while not explicitly admitting such, did not deny MadHawk's lack of education was a great asset, as well.

Critics of the move even admit MadHawk's prowess for unrealistic and false statements are unparalleled at this moment in history. However, there is much work to be done in this war-ravaged country. MadHawk's first order of business is to convince the Iraqi people that despite reports to the contrary, Iraqi's are really much better basketball players than Americans.

Such a bleak prospectus does not phase what some are already deeming the "Minister of Misinformation." Accepting the job immediately, MadHawk quipped, "I once convinced some guys on a post board that my alma mater was not a terrible basketball team when, in reality, it was one of the worst assemblages of talent that American College Basketball has ever seen."

The road to success for MadHawk is a long one, though, and is sure to be filled with its share of roadblocks--or should I say Iraqi checkpoints. In one of his first acts after taking the job, the MadHawk was nearly assassinated while attempting to convince an Iraqi boarder guard that contrary to popular belief, the sun really rises in the West.

Nobody knows how this will turn out. One thing can be assured, though, MadHawk will certainly never speak a word of truth; "I made a vow when I was in college to never let the truth get in the way of my message and that's not gonna change anytime soon!"
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 03, 2006, 07:57:23 PM
Most interesting games tonight (these are always the games that don't involve Hartwick or Elmira):

Ithaca v. Naz -- Nazareth really needs this one.  If Canori and Groot shoot the ball well they have a shot.  Ithaca could really tighten their grip on a playoff spot with a win.

Utica v. Alfred -- The Saxons are desperate for a win and this one would be huge. 

GB15 -- that post is fantastic.  Suzy must be proud.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2006, 10:06:37 PM
Thanks, Bamm.

In a nailbiter, Fisher beats Hartwick by 24. My spread was almost perfect.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2006, 10:15:09 PM
Bad news for Bomber fans. Ithaca gets knocked off at Naz, 95-88. Earlier today, I thought to myself "the only way Ithaca loses this game tonight is if they try to get into a shootout." Needless to say, Ithaca got into a shootout. This hurts them a lot in their attempt to avoid Fisher in the 1st round of the E8 tourney. Also, with a victory over Naz tonight the Bombers would have swept the season series and made it nearly impossible for Naz to overtake them. Now Naz is 4-4 and Ithaca is 5-3 with games left @RIT, @Fisher, @Alfred, and vs Utica. Bad loss for Ithaca.

Now we get to hear "Hartwick beat Naz, Naz beat Ithaca, therefore Hartwick will beat Ithaca." Well, we saw how well that line of logic worked tonight in the 'Wick/Fisher game. Ithaca is going to steamroll the Hawks next weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 03, 2006, 10:18:06 PM
Coco crisp was shut down by Bennett again.  I do have to say hartwick has some talent.  But they are undisciplined.  You can't committ as many fouls as they did and you can't turn it over as much as they did
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 03, 2006, 11:35:16 PM
Once again Madhawks stupidity rules the day. Just when I thought he could not say anything that would drop him in stature, he comes out with a jem about The Hawks beating Fisher on the road, because Naz did it, and they beat Naz so, obviously they are much better than Fisher.

Traditionally I am not a big fan of running up the score, but I kind of wish Fisher would have kept the pedal down on Hartwick just because I knew MadHawk dies a little inside with every point his team losses by.
Keep fighting the good fight MadHawk, while the rest of us Keep fighting for a tournament slot.

Anyway, I am glad to see that Fisher took care of business and really took Hartwick behind the woodshed.

GO CARDS...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 04, 2006, 12:57:58 AM
Who is excited for MadHawk's inevitable "even though Fisher beat Hartwick by a combined 50 points in their two games, the teams have similar talent levels" post tomorrow? I am.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 04, 2006, 10:28:17 AM
I said RIT would beat Ithaca if they continued their hot shooting.  I know it's Elmira, but last night they turned it up again:

"The RIT men's basketball tied a school record for three-pointers in a game with 16 in a 97-71 win over Elmira College. The Tigers shot 66.7% from the floor, including 73.9% in the second half en route to the win. "

http://www.ritathletics.com/News/mbb/2006/2/3/mbb020306.asp?path=mbb
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 04, 2006, 11:13:10 AM
RIT should win today, Ithaca's play has dropped off in the last couple weeks. I think they were playing their best ball the weekend they handled both RIT and Naz, but since have been inconsistent. Ithaca shot well from the floor last night (50%), great from distance (over 50%) and hit their FT's (80%)...and still lost by 7 points. They need to play some defense today if they want a chance.

Here's why Mullins is a terrible coach. When I was looking at Naz's schedule yesterday, I immediately noticed a trend within the first five seconds: when Naz scores in the low-70's or worse, they're terrible. I think their record is something like 2-11 in those games. Sure, they beat Fisher in a low-scoring game but I think we've already come to accept that game was the exception to a lot of rules. All Mullins had to do was slow the game down, play half-court, run the shot-clock down and they had an amazing chance to win.

I'm not sure if Naz struggles with that game because they don't want to play it or they're too impatient on offense or their defense just breaks down too often for games where every possession becomes valuable. Whatever it is, it's obvious they want to run-n-gun. So leave it to Jim Mullins to go into Naz's gym and get into a game where both teams had a chance to get to 100. What an idiot. This is like JV high school stuff; don't get into an up-tempo game with a team who plays that game well and can only play that type of game.

The way RIT is shooting and the big advantage McVean has on Mullins will probably lead to a 15-point victory for the Tigers today.

Big game in Pittsford as Utica comes calling at Varsity Gym. If Fisher wins, the E8 tourney is pretty much guaranteed to be at their place again. I say that only because Fisher seems to be RIT's kryptonite and the Tigers start playing like they've never seen a basketball before when they're on the same court as Fisher. If Utica wins, they're in the driver's seat because the tiebreaker that would decide it would be the famous "go from the bottom to the top and whoever has the worst record against a lower team (in this case, Naz) loses the tiebreaker." But Utica still would have to win in the Bulb to hold on.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 04, 2006, 11:30:56 AM
Ilikr SJF's chances tonight.
Playing in that gym has been horrible for UC.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 04, 2006, 01:15:19 PM
Fisher/Utica game is on the radio and can be heard at this site:

www.wysl1040.com

Tip at 4pm.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 04, 2006, 01:41:23 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 04, 2006, 11:30:56 AM
Ilikr SJF's chances tonight.
Playing in that gym has been horrible for UC.

Come on Fisher Alum, put it in the book, two biggest games left this weekend Fisher by 13  over Utica with even scoring between O'Brien, Biegel, McGgee and Gillette off the bench with 8 pts and 5 rebounds

Pittsburgh over Seahawks (at least there is one Hawk in contention for something) by 13 as well with Bettis going out big in Detroit, saddle up and enjoy the next 30 hours of pure fun
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 04, 2006, 02:05:32 PM
I like the pick...I think Utica is a real good team, but I think Fisher will handle em tonight...GO CARDS.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 04, 2006, 02:48:38 PM
Anyone else notice how much quieter the Utica fans are this time around than they were before the two teams met the first time. I'm sure if they win, though, we're going to have to listen to it for a long time. With that thought in my head, I'm now rooting for Fisher tonight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 04, 2006, 05:59:51 PM
Fisher coasts to a very easy win over Utica, 82-70.

The game wasn't even that close. The Cardinals dominated this game throughout, leading by as many 21 in the 2nd half and not allowing Utica within 12 in the 2nd half until the last two minutes during garbage time. Nick Bennett shuts down Ray Bryant, who had right around 13 points, 6 of which came in the aforementioned last two minutes of the game with Bennett not on the floor. I don't have the numbers yet, but Bryant must have shot something like 4-15. Seems Bennett has his number.

I distinctly remember a certain Utica fan saying a) Nick Bennett is the most overrated player in the league, and b) Ray Bryant is the best player in the league. Care to reconsider those comments?

I hope this ends all that pathetic "Utica is the best team in the conference" talk, after Fisher took them behind the woodshed this afternoon. Hey Pioneers, go get your shinebox.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 04, 2006, 06:19:05 PM
Fisher adds more proof to the fact that they are the best team in the conference. I am sure Clear and some other Utica fans will have you believe that even tho Fisher beat UC twice, UC really shot themselves in the foot and that they are the true power in the conference...I think we can all look at those remarks from clear and laugh now...

Hey Clear how is that at large bid/any trip to the tourny lookin...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 04, 2006, 06:24:42 PM
AU wins battle of E8 2-6 squads; I think it was 68-54. Good to see Alfred-Almond grad John Montana, Hartwick senior co-captain, get some court time--with a nice assist. Saxons move to 3-6 with Fisher at McLane Center on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 04, 2006, 06:27:22 PM
Ithaca overcomes a 15 point second half deficit to take down RIT @ Clark Gym.

Big game for Fran Snyder in a losing cause, 34 points.

52 - 40 advantage for the Tigers at the half.  58 - 43 was the biggest lead, I believe, with about 15' to go.  Ithaca slowly chipped away at the lead on balanced scoring.  

This result, combined with the Cardinals win today, virtually assures the E8 championship will take place @ Fisher. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woot on February 04, 2006, 06:52:24 PM
i think hamilton would beat fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 04, 2006, 07:10:29 PM
Quote from: woot on February 04, 2006, 06:52:24 PM
i think hamilton would beat fisher

Probably not if the game is at Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 04, 2006, 07:20:17 PM
Did I say Fisher by 13, sorry it was only 12, and that does not tell the story or the game.  Fisher did dominate, Biegel in foul trouble but breakout game for Smalt with 14.  O'brien had good game with 20.  Bennet solid deffensive game but a couple of cheap fouls from the short ref who tried to change the character of the game early in Utica's favor.  Guy was whistle happy.

Also a screwy call during the second half.  Ref under the basket called a blocking foul on Utica, ref on the perimiter started to react after the other ref blue his whistle startting to indicate a charge.  The Utica coach toook charge of the officiating and took 5 minutes to make a decision.  Not sure what they ended up calling but Fisher got the ball out of bounds

Prediction # 2 Pittsburg over the Hawks
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: naz hoops69 on February 04, 2006, 10:27:34 PM
Big weekend for Naz highlighted by strong performances by Ryan Mcadam and Matt Groot.  Since he started getting the playing time he deserves, Groot has really stepped up.  Mcadam is continuing to show how he can easily be one of the frontrunners for E8 player of the year over the next two years.  After losing to basically a high school team in Hartwick last weekend, Nazareth turned around this weekend with some strong performances team wide.  Tuesday will end up being a big game after all after seeing RIT's big choke-job at home today blowing a 15 point second half lead. 

I see Utica and Fisher as being locks for the tournament at this point, however I am not sold on Ithaca or RIT at all.  Having seen RIT play a few times, I am not at all impressed with their lack of athleticism and size.  Strong perimiter shooting has carried them through some impressive wins thus far but eventually the off balance 25 footers will start rimming out.  Prediction for the last 5 games of the season..... Naz will win out and host the E8 tournament after Fisher loses tight ones to Elmira and Alfred. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 04, 2006, 10:51:27 PM
Prediction for the last 5 games of the season..... Naz will win out and host the E8 tournament after Fisher loses tight ones to Elmira and Alfred.

What are you smoking son?  No way Naz is hosting E8.  You still have to get by Hartwick again as well as a couple of teams called Utica and St John Fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 05, 2006, 01:07:04 AM
Hey Naz Hoops, not sold on Ithaca? Which one of the 10 Ithaca victories in the last 13 games against Naz didn't make you a believer? Your team is on the outside looking in and the Flyers are screwed on the tiebreakers thanks to the loss at home against Hartwick. Enjoy also-ran status this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 05, 2006, 08:14:22 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 04, 2006, 05:59:51 PM
Fisher coasts to a very easy win over Utica, 82-70.

The game wasn't even that close. The Cardinals dominated this game throughout, leading by as many 21 in the 2nd half and not allowing Utica within 12 in the 2nd half until the last two minutes during garbage time. Nick Bennett shuts down Ray Bryant, who had right around 13 points, 6 of which came in the aforementioned last two minutes of the game with Bennett not on the floor. I don't have the numbers yet, but Bryant must have shot something like 4-15. Seems Bennett has his number.

I distinctly remember a certain Utica fan saying a) Nick Bennett is the most overrated player in the league, and b) Ray Bryant is the best player in the league. Care to reconsider those comments?

I hope this ends all that pathetic "Utica is the best team in the conference" talk, after Fisher took them behind the woodshed this afternoon. Hey Pioneers, go get your shinebox.

I said from Day 1 when I posted on this board -- to be the man, you have to beat the man. Since Fisher was the E8 champs last year, there's the man, and we lost both games this year, so we're playing for second place. Hopefully at tournament time, we can figure out how to get it done at Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 05, 2006, 08:31:37 AM
I couldn't have said it any better!  If the players believed in themselves as much as I do, I think we could beat Fisher.  But they absolutely left no doubt as to who is the best team in the league.  People here crack me up about making references to me, such as "oh I can't wait ti hear from clear about this game" hey I say it like I see it.  And there is no question that Fisher deserved to win the game.  And I agree with you above too that hopefully we get it figured out by the tournament time.

I had a great weekend - as I ended up visiting some friends in Rochester and actually saw 2 Fisher games.  Yes I scouted Fisher for myself on Friday.  Hartwick's gameplan atleast defensively was much better than ours was.  They mixed up defenses - sometimes in the same possession and despite being down like 16-0 at one point (I think it took them like 6 minutes to score) they actually battled back and actuallky cut the lead to 9 in the 2nd half (although early in the half).

Anyway a couple of interesting things.  Bennet did a great job on Cocozziello, but right now he is a one man team.  They are missing some important players to that team.  Well - supposedly the word I got from a couple of Hartwick people who were brave enough to go to the game (could it be MadHawk?) their starting PT guard (Simoneschi) and Center (Brown) and top sub (Dills) are gone from the program.  ANd I know the board will love this one, Cocozziello is also leaving after the season for an athletic scholarship.  Now I have a hard time believing that because I have seen him play enough to say he isn't good enough for a scholarship - so interesting stuff.
MadHawk - I will say that if this is true buddy you are in for many more years of losing.  As disappointed as I am with my Pioneers, I know we will make the E-8 tournament and have good core of returning players to make a splash for years to come.  You on the other hand are in trouble.  While I give you credit form being better this year, it is quite possible that you will be battling for your life to stay out of the cellar.

By the way any truth to these rumors above?  I assume the first are true since I notice Brown hasn't played in 2 weeks and Simoneschi in a month.

As for the Rochester scene... ouch Thirsty Turtle, a little too much to drink.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 05, 2006, 10:59:19 AM
Big win for the Bombers. Of course, it was in typical Ithaca "Jeckyl and Hyde" fashion, as they played a bad first half and a nice second half. Balanced scoring carried the day for Ithaca. Coming into this weekend, Ithaca needed at least a split and they got it. At 6 conference wins right now, they probably need only two more to clinch an E8 berth and they should get those wins at home against Hartwick and Elmira.

Superbowl Prediction: Pittsburgh 27  Seattle 20

I haven't been a believer in Seattle since the Giants should have beaten them three different times in one game. Freakin Jay Feely.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 05, 2006, 01:47:28 PM
Great article in the Utica O-D.
Makes an old Fisheralum proud!!!

http://www.uticaod.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060205/SPORTS/602050330/1030/SPORTS01
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 05, 2006, 02:23:10 PM
After this weekend the rest of the season should be very interesting. Fisher confirmed what we all expected by basically wrapping up the #1 seed, but the race for second is as good as it gets.

All three teams in the mix for second could easily finish as the #2, #3, or #4 seed. I have my money on ithaca as the 2 seed, with a big win against Utica in Ithaca. After that I think Utica will be the 3 and RIT as the 4. However, the prospects of Fisher playing Naz in the first round of the E8 tourny, should they sneak in, kind of scares me. It is such a big rivalry game that anything can happen...

should be exciting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 05, 2006, 10:06:35 PM
Quote from: notjoshreed on February 04, 2006, 01:41:23 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 04, 2006, 11:30:56 AM
Ilikr SJF's chances tonight.
Playing in that gym has been horrible for UC.

Come on Fisher Alum, put it in the book, two biggest games left this weekend Fisher by 13  over Utica with even scoring between O'Brien, Biegel, McGgee and Gillette off the bench with 8 pts and 5 rebounds

Pittsburgh over Seahawks (at least there is one Hawk in contention for something) by 13 as well with Bettis going out big in Detroit, saddle up and enjoy the next 30 hours of pure fun

Fisher by 12, Pittsburgh by 11 close enough for me How bout you Hawk?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 06, 2006, 02:55:35 AM
NJR, pretty predictable weekend, I suppose. I had Fisher by 10, they won by 12. I had Pitt by 10, they won by 11. We were both off by a total of three points. And, yes, this was a petty post.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 06, 2006, 10:39:19 AM
And I'm proud to bring you the MVP of the super bowl- THE ZEBRAS.  Wow doesn't that sound like a lot of games in rochester this year.  I'm a Cowboys fan so I was not cheering for either team but the refs obviously had an alterior motive in that game and even steelers fans have to say there were two calls that should have been no-calls.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 06, 2006, 10:53:23 AM
Superman -- it's games and calls like what I saw last night that makes me wonder if Vegas had more involvement than they should... though you would suspect the referees would be making calls for the Seahawks in that case (since most of the money was on the Steelers).

Bottom line, the Hawks got boned on at least 3 huge calls:

Their first non-TD to Jackson.
The phantom holding call that would have put them on the 1 yard line with a chance to go ahead.
The reeeeediculous defensive chop block call on Hasselbeck when he made the tackle on the INT return.

Those three calls all looked wrong and cost the Seahawks points.

Taking into account the Indy/Pittsburgh game, the Broncos/Pats game, and the Super Bowl -- the 2006 playoffs should be remembered for the referees.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 06, 2006, 12:33:17 PM
I will argue that these playoffs should definitely be remembered for The Snake's ridiculous beard and mustache.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 06, 2006, 03:32:33 PM
After reading a bunch of Superbowl columns and seeing the posts here, I'm in the minority, I guess. I don't think the officiating was that atrocious, really. I'm certain that it didn't really have an effect on the game. I'll say this, if these two teams played 10 times on a neutral field, Pittsburgh would win 7 or 8 times. The better team won is all I'm saying.

1) The interference call on Darrell Jackson. Was it a soft call? Probably. Did he push off? Yes. Is it illegal to push off on a defender in order to gain an advantage, which Jackson undoubtedly did on that play? Of course. Would people even be bringing this up if it were Week 8 of the regular season? No chance. Do some receivers get away with a lot worse than that (TO, Chad Johnson, etc)? Definitely! But you can't use that as a justification. Can you imagine going into court and telling the judge that you were speeding but you shouldn't have got a ticket because other cars were speeding too but they didn't get caught? Good luck with that one.

I can't stand to hear people say "you can't call that in the Superbowl!" Sure you can and the ref did. The rules are the rules whether it's the championship game or a regular season game; whether there's five minutes left in the 1st half or two seconds left in the game. Once, when I was refereeing a soccer game, I nearly incited a riot when I called a penalty kick with 7 seconds left in a tie game(the championship game of a tournament, no less). But I had no problem with it because the rule was broken and it was the right call. I have absolutely no problem with that pass interference.

2) The holding call negating the completion down to the Steelers' 2-yard line. I didn't really see the holding the first time I watched it. However, my roommate was watching it again this morning and when the defensive end beat the tackle around the end and then, ever so slightly, the tackle hooked his right arm for a second(couldn't see it on the replay because it was obstructed, but you could see it during the play) and quickly let him go.

If you get visibly beat and do something like that, it's gonna get called. Period. Again, a soft call but ultimately the right one.

3) I'm not sure about that call against Hasselbeck on the INT return. From my understanding, the refs thought he was going low on the blocker right in front of the returner, which is illegal. I don't really think that's what Hasselbeck was doing, but I don't think the call really mattered in the grand scheme. The Steelers would have still called the trick play and it still probably would have gone for a TD. A missed call? Yes. An important one? No, not really.

I don't want to seem like a proponent for refs--I'm not-- but I thought they were pretty average in the Superbowl. You can argue all you want about Big Ben's TD but the ref interpreted the rule correctly, as there was no "conclusive" video evidence to overturn it. Obviously some refs overturn things when it isn't conclusive but you can't take the exceptions and make them the rule.

On to basketball. Big Tuesday night of hoops coming at us:

Utica at Oswego
RIT at Naz
Fisher at Alfred

Alfred certainly has the talent level and depth to play with Fisher if they're firing on all cylinders. We'll see if the Saxons can stay close in spite of their terrible coach. I like Fisher in a closer game than everyone expects, 74-69. This may have "letdown game" written all over it.

RIT at Naz may be the most intriguing game of the night now that we know both Oswego and Utica have no shots at an at-large big. These two teams have played two very close games, already. An RIT win would virtually guarantee them a spot in the E8 tourney and Naz would probably have put the final nail in its own coffin. If Naz wins, the last two weeks of league play are going to get very interesting with four teams competing for 3 spots; one of course being the right to play Fisher in the 1st round, not good. This will obviously be a pretty high-scoring game. I like RIT, 86-83 in a nailbiter.

Utica at Oswego: Great, two teams that are clearly a distant second in their conference. It's like watching two good teams play in the consolation game of a tournament. Sure, it's interesting to see who will win, but does it really matter? Not really. Oswego wins, 76-69.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 06, 2006, 03:55:38 PM
Oswego vs UC is like watching the NIT!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 06, 2006, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 06, 2006, 03:55:38 PM
Oswego vs UC is like watching the NIT!


The NIT!!! That's $%&#^!!!  :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 06, 2006, 04:13:47 PM
Me thinks I hit a nerve.
At least I didn't say preaseason NIT.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 06, 2006, 04:27:14 PM
I also thought Rothlisberger's TD dive was not a touchdown. Sure his head crossed the plane of the end zone,  but the ball did not go across until he was already on the ground.  Not sure how the replay crew missed that one.

And for those who say it wouldn't have mattered because the Steelers won by 11, a Seattle TD on the offensive pass interference and no TD for the Steelers on the dive play would have been a 14-point swing. Not to mention the fact that teams play differently depending on the score. Had Seattle had the lead they surely would have run the ball a bit more.

Anyway, it's all over, the Steelers won, and we could be talking about what-ifs forever. I was just adding my food for thought.

Back to hoops -- No surprise that Hartwick got blasted against Fisher, but i thought they might have better luck against the Saxons. As for the payers mentioned above, I believe Simoneshi is gone, and Brown and Dills have been absent for a few games. What's the word MadHawk?

It also seems like things are shaking out a bit in the E8, it will be interesting to see how the next couple weeks play out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 06, 2006, 04:27:47 PM
when do the Regional rankings come out? Is it around next week??
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 06, 2006, 04:33:55 PM
Let me preface this by saying I'm an Eagles fan.  I didn't bet on the Seahawks, so I had no vested interest in seeing them win other than I feel it would have been fun to see Jerome Bettis cry.

GB15 - I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on pretty much every point you made about the SB officiating.  You said "I'm certain that it didn't really have an effect on the game",  but then admit that the call on Jackson (offensive pass interference) was "soft" -- code for "I wouldn't have called that."  It wasn't just soft, it was wrong.  Jackson's arm was outstreched and touching the DB, but there is consensus that it didn't warrant a call.  Anytime a bad call takes four points off the board in a close game it affects the game.

The bogus holding call on Locklear only likely took points off the board, as it would have put them on the 1.  I say it was bogus because I watched the replays several times last night and today and that's the conclusion I drew, as did many, many others.  Furthermore, when the play started live I said "that's offsides" as the man who drew the holding call appeared to break early on the snap.  The Seattle offensive lineman were saying the same thing after the game.

I agree that the call on Hasselbeck for the chop block is most likely irrelevant to the outcome, but it was just another highly questionable decision against the Hawks.

The replays on Big Ben's TD were inconclusive and I don't have a problem with the way he ruled there.  Anyone who says different isn't being honest with themselves.  

Finally, I disagree that Pittsburgh was the better team, decisively.  How did you draw that conclusion?  What statistical categories did they dominate?  Who exactly played well for them?

In my mind Seattle's mistakes (drops, INTs) and bad decisions by the refs had far more to do with the outcome of that game than the Steelers did.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 06, 2006, 05:23:28 PM
And GB15, don't try and tell anyone for a second that if it was the Giants, and not the Seahawks getting those calls against them, you wouldn't be losing your mind right now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 06, 2006, 05:30:21 PM
Weren't we talking about this a few weeks ago when it was the STEELERS that were crying foul because it was the NFL that wanted the Colts to win?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 06, 2006, 05:47:08 PM
Well, yeah.  Again, I'm not saying the referees "had it in" for the Hawks.  My point is they were bad, and their badness affected the outcome of the game.

Funny thing about the Steelers/Colts game.  Before that game Joey Porter whined about the Colts not being "man enough" to just lineup and play smashmouth football.  He said they had to audible all the time, use trick plays, and make it a "thinking game."  Does this mean he's mad at his teammates now for the reverse-pass TD to Hines Ward?  Either way, I love Porter and his underdeveloped brain.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 06, 2006, 05:56:44 PM
Good point!!
The only people who have gadget plays are the ones with no game plan or talent!? :P
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 06, 2006, 06:59:00 PM
Hey now, Fisheralum, SJF's football team runs a gimmick offense and throws the bubble screen about 20 times a game.

TF2, I probably would be upset with some of those calls, much the same way you were those two weeks in a row when your Skins got jobbed by the officials.

Bamm, I think Pittsburgh is the better team. They played about as poorly as they could play, and still took it. I think Seattle is an above average team who came into an easy schedule and fortunate circumstances. To be honest, I'm not sure if they'd make the playoffs if they were in the AFC West like they used to be.

If it weren't for the fact that they play in by far the worst division in football, I'd be 100% sure that they're not going to make the playoffs next year. Luckily for them, they have 6 games a year against the Rams/Cards/Niners.

Bamm, I'll be going(being forced) to go see the Eagles game when they're at the Superdome next season. I'm not excited about that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 06, 2006, 08:43:36 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 06, 2006, 04:13:47 PM
Me thinks I hit a nerve.
At least I didn't say preaseason NIT.

Not really... i guess it would be nice to have NIT champion on your resume lol.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 06, 2006, 08:51:50 PM
GB15 - That breaks my heart.  I'm guessing you're going to have to deal with the glow on your other half's face after they destroy the hapless Saints, too.  Hey, it could be worse, you could have to witness them take out the G-Men  :D

Your boy Andruskewiecz (did I spell that right?) scored the decisive bucket on Saturday, by the way.  A nice turnaround jumper from the foul line that gave them the lead for good.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 06, 2006, 10:51:26 PM
I don't know, the Saints could be decent next year. Nobody can really tell how good this team is because it's impossible to get a read off them this season because of all that happened. Also, it's tough to win when you have the stupidest QB in the entire NFL. I honestly think if they draft Leinart, they could be a playoff team the year after next.

However, we ARE talking about the Saints here. They will inevitably do something very stupid. I've already heard talks down here that the Saints may trade the #2 pick. The rumor that keeps flying around is they'd trade the #2 pick to the Jets (who would take Bush if he's available and if he isn't they'd take Leinart) for the Jets' #4 overall pick, a 2nd rounder this year, a 4th rounder this year, and a 3rd rounder next year. Then the Saints would take Jay Cutler (QB-Vandy). I almost threw up in my mouth when i read that. They NEED to take Leinart, he's a sure-fire pick.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 07, 2006, 01:19:39 PM
GB-15 it is obvious we will never see eye to on anything.  But you couldn't have been watching the same SB as most of America.
First off, there was no holding penalty on the pass to the 2 yard line that would have given Seattle the lead.  John Madden, a hall of famer to be even stated it was a bad call.  Every single knowledgable football guy has come out and stated it was a terrible call.  Furthermore, many analysts have stated that Pittsburgh was off sides on that play to boot. 
2nd Football is a game of field position and if you are ignorant enought to think that 15 yards doesn't affect the play calling on a drive you should go back to football 101.
And to say that Piitburgh would beat these guys 7 out of 10 times, sorry you are just reacting to the fact that Seattle beat your Giants and didn't play well doing it.
The fact is Seattle got absolutely jobbed in this game and they were clearly the better team.  They dominated every single category and gave up 3 big plays.  At the rate Pittsburgh and big Ben was playing if Seattle punched it in to go ahead 17-14 there was little chance that Pitt would have scored.  When they have to play from behind they aren't very good.

And I am not a Seattle fan.

Tonight we beat Oswego by 13.
Fisher kills Alfred
RIT beats Naz by 11

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 07, 2006, 01:20:58 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5310192

Just read this link that tells it all.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: naz hoops69 on February 07, 2006, 02:24:00 PM
some quick predictions for tonight....   Alfred 58-    Fisher 51
                                                            Utica 77-     Oswego 70
                                                            Naz 92-       RIT 63
for naz, Matt Groot scores 38 on 15-16 shooting, and Justin Fladd has a career best 31 points and 22 rebounds.  RIT has every 3 pointer attempted blocked because other than fran snyder, no guard is above  5'6


If Hartwick is scrimmaging the local high school JV team.........

                HIGH SCHOOL JV- 29    HARTWICK - 22 (ot)

Should be some pretty accurate predictions.  The Superbowl on Sunday was the biggest garbage/waste 4 hours of my life.  Terrible game so lets stop talking about it on this board. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 07, 2006, 03:07:24 PM
My response to Clear will come later when I have more than 2 minutes to post.

NazHoops, obviously you're not serious about that post. But here's a serious question: Has it, or when did it, dawn on you that you're paying $30,000 to go to a liberal arts school? How did it feel?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 07, 2006, 03:37:49 PM
I agree with the predictions.

- Ray leads Utica over Oswego.
- No reason to think Fisher can handle Alfred after what we've seen so far this season.
- and Naz by 30 over RIT to go 3-0 against RIT this season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: naz hoops69 on February 07, 2006, 05:31:31 PM
GB.... .probably about the same as it does to pay $35,000  a year to go to another liberal arts school (Ithaca)..... revised prediction for tonight, Naz had a good shootaround..... Naz 106-  RIT-29
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 07, 2006, 05:35:55 PM
Naz, for the sake of all east ave schools I hope that you are joking.  If not then come to the good east ave school
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: naz hoops69 on February 07, 2006, 05:46:29 PM
im obviously kidding about Naz being that good..... they can beat any of the good teams if they hit perimiter shots, but that happens in about 1 of 10 games.... but i really do think RIT is that bad, and I just dont like Hartwick, so i will continue to make fun of them instead..... prediction holds true... Naz 109-RIT 17
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 07, 2006, 06:05:07 PM
Conference Standings, just in case anyone got the wrong impression from naz_hoops:

Fisher (8 -1)
Utica (6 - 3)
RIT (6-3)
Ithaca (6-3)
Naz (5-4)

And before you get too excited about the possibility of Naz moving into a tie with RIT tonight, remember that the tiebreaker (after head to head, which theoretically would be split) is record versus the worst of the conference up.  And Naz lost to Hartwick.  Good night, see you next season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 07, 2006, 06:09:01 PM
but remember there is still 4 games left this season after tonight, so for Naz's sake they need to win tonight and then hope that RIT falls against somebody else (except I'm saying that both teams will lose to fisher)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 07, 2006, 06:22:18 PM
Good point, I also should have considered that Naz's impressive 8-12 overall mark and 0-2 record against RIT certainly points towards a win this evening and a big run into the postseason.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 07, 2006, 06:29:07 PM
as we have seen all year anything can happen when you step onto the basketball court.  I personally would LOVE to see Fisher Naz in the first round. Being a senior it would make my year to see fisher get another shot at Naz at home.  But also being sensible, that could be a dangerous game for Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 07, 2006, 08:16:58 PM
NazHoops, I understand Ithaca is not an "elite" school, but please don't put Naz in the same category as Ithaca. You only sound stupider when you do. And I wasn't a liberal arts major. I graduated from the Communications School (33rd in the nation according to the 2004 U.S. News when I graduate). Also, Ithaca's physical therapy major is one of the top 15 or 20 programs in the country.

So go put on one of your purple t-shirts and get a good night's sleep, you'll need to wake up early to carry the lacrosse players' books to class.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 07, 2006, 08:30:22 PM
AU hanging tough with Fisher. Cardinals lead 30-27 after back-to-back 3-pointers by Bennett.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 07, 2006, 08:34:17 PM
Fisher 34, AU 32 at halftime.
Cool....200th post and now I can applaud or smite!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 07, 2006, 08:46:08 PM
You deserve it for all your hard work on the football boards, AUPep. Enjoy the privilege.

My Fisher/AU prediction is looking pretty good. I said this had "letdown game" written all over it and Alfred has the talent to stick with Fisher, though they're not nearly as well-coached nor do they execute like Fisher. My score of a 74-69 Fisher win has a shot!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 07, 2006, 09:08:57 PM
Thanks, GB15. AU 51, Fisher 47 with 10:43 to go. AU in a 2-3 zone....I believe a first for the Saxons in at least 3 years.
McGee 3-pointer makes it 51-50. 9:16 remaining and AU has only ONE timeout remaining.....yikes.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 07, 2006, 09:17:02 PM
AU 55, Fisher 53 with 7 and change.
55-55 with 5 to go

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 07, 2006, 09:19:01 PM
AU 58, Fisher 55 with 4:39 to play
AU 58, Fisher 57 with 3:45 to go
AU 60, Fisher 57 2:44 to go
Stein goes to the line for AU....1 for 2, makes it AU 61, Fisher 57
McSweeney with Layup and free throw, 61-60 with 1:53 to go
Pete Gillette with 3-pointer to go up 63-61


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 07, 2006, 09:26:40 PM
Fisher 63, AU 61 with 53 sec
Fisher 65, AU 61......Fisher has the ball......grrrrrrrrr
Gillette at the line after foul....less than half a minute to go
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 07, 2006, 09:33:32 PM
Final from McLane Center:
Fisher 67, AU 63
Rob Kornaker gets still another win over his alma mater.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 07, 2006, 09:36:15 PM
wow, great effort Saxons.

Counting up IC's remaining games I had the Bombers at 10-4 best-case scenario, but I definitely had Saturday at Alfred in the "toss-up" pile.  Now I remember why.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 07, 2006, 09:44:31 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 07, 2006, 08:46:08 PM
Alfred has the talent to stick with Fisher, though they're not nearly as well-coached nor do they execute like Fisher. My score of a 74-69 Fisher win has a shot!
Everyone else posting on this board seems to be saying the same thing about Alfred coaching. I give credit to Murphy tonight for actually trying a trap, dropping back to a 2-3 zone, which worked well against Fisher. While I don't see most of the games, when I do catch a game, I don't see much in the way of defensive change-ups.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 07, 2006, 09:46:53 PM
Alfred really put a scare into Fisher, really outplayed them the entire game. I am just glad that Fisher escaped AU with a win.

Fisher got a big 3 point play from Mcsweeny, down 4 late, a steal, a huge three by Gillette, a block, and a bucket by Biegle, all in the last minute. I understand all the talk about AU being poorly coached. AU only had 2 timeouts left with 9 minutes left in the game. I think they would have made a difference with clock management late in the game.

Alfred plays SJF real tough for the second time this season. I don't think they are going to make the E8 tourny which is probably a really good thing for Fisher.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 07, 2006, 09:53:09 PM
It goes without saying that Alfred plays Fisher the best of any E8 team. I don't want to hear it from the one Naz fan, you guys beat Fisher one out of every ten games and get killed the other nine. I think AU is a tough matchup for Fisher because they're deep, talented and don't really have an important player to get covered by Bennett. Bryant is too small and fast and Stein is a banger down low. This puts AU at 3-7 on the conference season, they're going to need to run the table to even have a shot at the E8 tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 07, 2006, 10:14:30 PM
RIT completes a three game sweep against Naz, winning at Naz, 78-68. Thanks for playing this year, Naz, we have some lovely parting gifts for you backstage including a date with a pissed off Fisher team. Enjoy yourself.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 07, 2006, 11:41:54 PM
In a must-win game for any hope of a Pool C bid, Utica goes down @ Oswego 63-49.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 07, 2006, 11:50:18 PM
Great Job Alfred, you guys should b proud of playing that close.  Naz to bad maybe next year.  You NEEDED this game and it will now be next to impossible to make the E8's.  Utica good luck winning at Fisher to get into the tourny.  Can't wait for this weekends games.  Ithaca should be intresting and then on Saturday they are dedicating the court to the great Bobby Wanzer
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 08, 2006, 12:13:42 AM
I love when Clear picks the Pioneers to win by double-digits and then Utica gets smacked. No offense to you, Budcrew, of course.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 08, 2006, 07:38:24 AM
2 thoughts-
As GB15 said - this (the AU SJF game) had let down all over it-
OUCH!  Glad to pull one out of the old hat.
UC- clear- um stick a fork in ya you are done!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 08, 2006, 08:36:50 AM
Once again, RIT gets hot from behind the three point line and takes down an opponent.  Last night, with about 6 minutes left in the game Barrett Zeinfeld scored 15 straight RIT points, all three-pointers, to bring the Tigers from three down to ten up.

http://www.ritathletics.com/News/mbb/2006/2/7/mbb020706.asp?path=mbb

At this point I think the Tigers have gone from "streaky shooting team" to "good shooting team".
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 08, 2006, 08:59:28 AM
Looking at the box score from the RIT/Naz game last night, it looked like another balanced night for RIT, with 5 guys in double figures, let by Bacon with 16. Nice to see he was getting the ball more, I don't think he hit double figures for a few games.

For Naz, I've only seen them vs. RIT and I know Canori is a good player, but RIT seems to have his number. Yeah, he had 17 pts, but it was on 6-21 shooting. I think he was something like 8-21 in the last game. I think most guys in the league could put up the points he does shooting 20+ times a game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 08, 2006, 10:42:51 AM
Quote from: naz hoops69 on February 07, 2006, 02:24:00 PM
some quick predictions for tonight....Naz 92-       RIT 63

for naz, Matt Groot scores 38 on 15-16 shooting, and Justin Fladd has a career best 31 points and 22 rebounds.  RIT has every 3 pointer attempted blocked because other than fran snyder, no guard is above  5'6

Groot: 5 pts on 2-5 shooting
Fladd: DNP

The "5'6" RIT Guards:
Zeinfeld: 15 pts on 5 triples
Roy: 6 pts
Springer: 13 pts

Good call Naz Hoops, you may not think RIT is that good, problem is, Naz is even worse.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 08, 2006, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 08, 2006, 12:13:42 AM
I love when Clear picks the Pioneers to win by double-digits and then Utica gets smacked. No offense to you, Budcrew, of course.

None taken GB. Although I was a little surprised this morning when bamm's post read that UC had lost 63-49. I would have figured UC would have more offense than that, but congrats to Oswego for a good defensive effort.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 08, 2006, 11:11:21 AM
Also, on the longest road trip of the season, Utica goes 2-3, losing to Oswego, Fisher and RIT. If Utica is ever going to make any noise on a national stage, they can't be going 2-3 on a road trip... they HAVE to learn to win away from the friendly confines of Clark Athletic Center.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 08, 2006, 11:14:37 AM
Budcrew,
That point that has been talked about all season.
Great at home, yet the bus trips are horrible.
Is something in the Utica water that helps?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 08, 2006, 11:45:30 AM
Wow!  Terrible night for myself and Naz_Hoops.  We didn't pick a single game right out of the three.  Aparently neither of us knows anything about basketball.

(Ray was the one bright spot in Utica's loss with 22 points)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 08, 2006, 12:13:08 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 08, 2006, 11:14:37 AM
Budcrew,
That point that has been talked about all season.
Great at home, yet the bus trips are horrible.
Is something in the Utica water that helps?

Fisheralum, you of all people should know since you live in Utica. Don't even drink Utica water, if you can help it. Maybe it would help if the other team drank it and got sick.  ::)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 08, 2006, 12:55:24 PM
Budcrew,
So that is why I have a funny glow!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 08, 2006, 01:37:27 PM
Win or lose, the only thing that counts is beating Fisher in the tournament.  Certainly not happy with the game yesterday buy the only way in after losing last weekend to Fisher was going to be the conference tournament anyway.

So onto the weekend we go.

SPecial shout out to GB15 the official that flagged the phantom pass interference on Seattle's 1st TD is ........ you got it right, from PITTSBURGH!  What a joke.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 08, 2006, 01:54:31 PM
Clear,
Putting all of your hopes on the tourney is all you have left.
Again you will be on the road, and then have to win out.
Chances look slim.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 08, 2006, 02:29:20 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on February 08, 2006, 01:37:27 PM
SPecial shout out to GB15 the official that flagged the phantom pass interference on Seattle's 1st TD is ........ you got it right, from PITTSBURGH!  What a joke.

Not as big of joke as you predicting that Utica would beat every team they play by 20+ points.


In other news, a quick note on the RIT/Naz game last night, RIT has now beaten Naz 9 straight games going back to 2002-03
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 08, 2006, 03:09:23 PM
MadHawk, when your describing Ray you don't need to use an plural adjectives.  He'll be winning MVP alone.

Good stat TigerFan2.  And of course we all remember how that amazing streak was started with 5'6'' Dan Cerro taking the most memorable Empire8 charge in history under the footprints of the sharp shooting Larry Maroney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 08, 2006, 03:17:26 PM
Yes Col, that may be the finest charge ever taken in Empire 8 history. In fact, I just checked out the replay of that very game. I'm glad to see that the video of that charge has not been lost for the ages.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 08, 2006, 03:33:18 PM
Hawk,
You never cease to amaze!
Acronyms?
Try synonyms-
Hawk=Moron!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 08, 2006, 04:11:29 PM
Well know we know who was holding the sign at the Superbowl that read:

Absolute
Bettis
Championship
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 08, 2006, 09:26:33 PM
Quote from: Mad Hawk on February 08, 2006, 02:39:38 PM
[            Hardly
             Any
             Reason
             To
             Write
             In
             Capitals,
  MadHawK

Let's cut this down to size. Fact is, the 'wick never got lit.....not once, but twice against Alfred, currently 3-7 in E8 play. AU has 2 losses to Fisher, 2 losses to Utica, a loss each to RIT, Naz and Ithaca.....a win over Elmira and TWO WINS OVER THE 'WICK.
MadHawk should be using 6 pt. type to post, if he has anything to say at all. No disrespect intended for senior co-captains John Montana and Tim Kindlon. Kindlon's brother took a halftime spill on the bleachers at McLane while listening to me blabber about D3hoops.com--hope his back is feeling better now.




Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 08, 2006, 09:48:19 PM
Might as well save your energy, AUPepBand.  MadHawk hasn't made a relevant post yet in his Posting Up career and isn't likely to do so anytime soon, either.

Much like Hartwick hasn't done anything relevant in men's basketball for the last howe ver many years and isn't likely to do so anytime soon.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 08, 2006, 09:59:48 PM
True, Caz, probably a waste of my time. And to think I could have been using said time to make some recruiting calls for the trombone we'll need for the 2006 season. Replacing Schwartzy in the pep band is like finding someone to fill Brenton Brady's shoes...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on February 09, 2006, 09:19:23 AM
Goodbye Seniors
          AND
   Nick Bennett
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vitamin C - Graduation Song

And so we talked all night about the rest of our lives
Where we're gonna be when we turn 25
I keep thinking times will never change
Keep on thinking things will always be the same
But when we leave this year we won't be coming back
No more hanging out cause we're on a different track
And if you got something that you need to say
You better say it right now cause you don't have another day
Cause we're moving on and we can't slow down
These memories are playing like a film without sound
And I keep thinking of the night in June
I Didn't know much of love, but it came too soon
And There was me and you, and then it got real blue
Stay at home talkin' on the telephone and
We would get so excited, we'd get so scared
Laughing at our selves thinking life's not fair
And this is how it feels

Chorus:
As we go on, we remember
All the times we had together
And as our lives change, from whatever
We will still be, friends forever

So if we get the big jobs and we make the big money
When we look back now, will that joke still be funny?
Will we still remember everything we learned in school?
Still be trying to break every single rule
Will little brainy Bobby be the stockbroker man?
Can Heather find a job that won't interfere with her tan?
I keep, I keep thinking that it's not goodbye
Keep on thinking it's a time to fly
And this is how it feels

*Repeat chorus*

La, la, la, la; yeah, yeah, yeah
La, la, la, la, we will still be friends forever

Will we think about tomorrow like we think about now?
Can we survive it out there? Can we make it somehow?
I guess I thought that this would never end
And suddenly it's like we're women and men
Will the past be a shadow that will follow us round?
Will these memories fade when I leave this town
I keep, I keep thinking that it's not goodbye
Keep on thinking it's a time to fly

*Repeat chorus 3x*

**this is for anyone who have ever lost someone important in
there lifes!
* exspeacilly if there bff moves a way frum her!**
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred
1.Ryan Hallett*
2.Steve Micheaux
3.Quentin Bryant*
4.Chris LeMasters*
5.Nick Andolina
6.Todd Dersham

Elmira
1.James Brown*
2.Micah Owens*

Fisher
1.Ryamie Auman
2.Pete Gillett
3.Nick Bennett*
4.Sean O'Brien*
5.Mike McGee*

Hartwick
1.John Montana
2.Tim Kindlon*

Ithaca
1.Jonathan Whetstone*
2.Jim Bellis*
3.Brian Andruskiewicz*

Nazareth
1.Caswell Smith
2.Matt Groot*
3.Michael DeBlois
4.Justin Fladd

RIT
1.Tyler Springer
2.Drew Martin*
3.Fran Synder*

Utica
1.Willie Lucas*
2.Shawn Brown
3.Justin Chichon*

*Denotes Current Starter
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 09, 2006, 09:30:06 AM
For the sake of all that's good, I hope Pat removes that last post by MadHawk.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 09, 2006, 09:36:29 AM
Can someone (Pat) put a leash on this kid?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 09, 2006, 09:58:59 AM
AUPep, how often do you play at the games.  The band wasn't out for the game I went to.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 09, 2006, 10:45:32 AM
col: AU Pep Band played at 9 of AU's 11 games. We missed the Utica game because of Mid-Semester Break (everyone took off for the extended weekend). We also did not make the trip to Norwich.

Logged some serious miles on the 1992 Grand Caravan, carrying a sousaphone, bass drum, etc. plus four or five band geeks. Traveled to Lexington, VA for the opener (a disappointment), to Cleveland (Rocks!) for Case Western (where we were not allowed to sit under our EZ-Up despite steady rain and no crowd), to Ithaca (met YellowHat tailgatin') where we were joined by two original kazoo pep band members, and to Fisher (on an A-State bus filled with AU students). Played home games vs. SLU, Springfield, Hartwick, Grove City and Maine Maritime.

Seems the Utica game usually conflicts with AU Mid-Semester Break. If I can muster at least a 4-piece band, we're in the stands supporting our Saxons!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 09, 2006, 12:08:43 PM
AU, I think Col was referring to the basketball games. Do you guys not play at the hoops games?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2006, 02:10:21 AM
Start with some props for new Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum, a Tulane Law alum. General Manager at 36 is impressive, I wouldn't mind that at all.

My spreads for this weekend's games with predictions coming tomorrow(home team in CAPS)

Friday

Naz -4.5 at HARTWICK
UTICA -6 vs Rit
ALFRED -13.5 vs Elmira
FISHER -13 vs Ithaca

Saturday

UTICA -12.5 vs Naz
Rit -10 at HARTWICK
Ithaca -2 at ALFRED
Fisher -25.5 vs Elmira

Things I look forward to after this weekend:
1) Naz being eliminated from E8 tourney
2) The inevitable "Utica has righted the ship" posts from Clear after they go 2-0 this weekend, thus furthering what I have said ALL ALONG that Utica is a very good home team but can't get it done on the road when it counts.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 10, 2006, 07:01:54 AM
Hey GB15,
I think that Utica is a good team also but keep an eye out for a Utica let down.  Just as Fisher pulled one out of their collective hats against AU, I have a feeling that UC may go into either of these games flat.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 10, 2006, 10:09:51 AM
Totally agree with you about the let down.  I think right now everyone is down.  In the end we just need to get ready for 2 games in 2 weeks at SJF.

As for the weekend I only predict 1 certainty:

Ithaca goes 0-2.

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 10, 2006, 10:17:15 AM
Clear-
You are right- at this point in the season it is tough to get UP for games you are supposed to win.  Happens to the best!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2006, 10:42:11 AM
Quote from: clearconceit on February 10, 2006, 10:09:51 AM
Totally agree with you about the let down. I think right now everyone is down. In the end we just need to get ready for 2 games in 2 weeks at SJF.

As for the weekend I only predict 1 certainty:

Ithaca goes 0-2.

Peace

Wow, step a little further out on that limb, Clear. We all know that IC is losing at Fisher tonight, that's unquestionable. So let's just say what your prediction was, essentially: Ithaca will lose at Alfred.

What, you mean Ithaca--a bad road team--will lose on the road to a team that has a lot of talent, should have beat Fisher the other night and took IC to OT at the Bulb? What insight!! Before you start declaring yourself clairvoyant, your opinion contained about as much risk as betting that it will be cloudy in central New York tomorrow. That's to say, it's pretty likely.

Ithaca will still be in the E8 tournament which, for the 455th time, should be their regular season goal. Then the Bombers have hope to get lucky in the E8 tourney like the almost did last year when they played Fisher the best of any team in the conference.

Look at the bright side, Clear, at least your team is bottoming out at the most opportune time of the season. Errrrr...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 10, 2006, 10:52:42 AM
Oooooooooo, GB that's going to leave a mark!!! :P
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 10, 2006, 10:55:50 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 10, 2006, 10:42:11 AM
Quote from: clearconceit on February 10, 2006, 10:09:51 AM
Totally agree with you about the let down. I think right now everyone is down. In the end we just need to get ready for 2 games in 2 weeks at SJF.

As for the weekend I only predict 1 certainty:

Ithaca goes 0-2.

Peace

Wow, step a little further out on that limb, Clear. We all know that IC is losing at Fisher tonight, that's unquestionable. So let's just say what your prediction was, essentially: Ithaca will lose at Alfred.

What, you mean Ithaca--a bad road team--will lose on the road to a team that has a lot of talent, should have beat Fisher the other night and took IC to OT at the Bulb? What insight!! Before you start declaring yourself clairvoyant, your opinion contained about as much risk as betting that it will be cloudy in central New York tomorrow. That's to say, it's pretty likely.

Ithaca will still be in the E8 tournament which, for the 455th time, should be their regular season goal. Then the Bombers have hope to get lucky in the E8 tourney like the almost did last year when they played Fisher the best of any team in the conference.

Look at the bright side, Clear, at least your team is bottoming out at the most opportune time of the season. Errrrr...
GB,
As long as Utica doesn't go into the E8 tourney as the 4 seed , we should be fine, at least for one game. Then we'd (most likely) have to worry about playing Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2006, 11:18:51 AM
In all likelihood, Budcrew, you're gonna have to see one of the Rochester teams in the first round. I don't think RIT is going to be too scared playing Utica in the Roc, considering their success against the Pioneers in that city.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 10, 2006, 11:20:08 AM
Looking at this weekend, I'm curious to see if there will be any suprises that could shake up the postseason seeding. Utica should have a 2-0 weekend, because as bad as they are on the road, they are a very good team @ UC. That road trip has never been the easiest for RIT so although they should be Hartwick, I think they will struggle at UC. But the way they have been shooting it, who knows.

I'll be at the IC vs. SJF game tonight and it wil lbe the first time I've seen IC this season. SJF always looks great vs. RIT so I'll be interested to see how they match up with IC, although I have a feeling it won't be that close. Maybe if Jim Mullins gets the the flu and stays in IC, they may have a shot with Hepler behind the bench.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 10, 2006, 11:42:18 AM
Don't sell yourself short judge you are a tremendous slouch!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 10, 2006, 01:37:55 PM
Thanks Ty.
But how do you measure yourself against other golfers?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 10, 2006, 01:39:41 PM
By height.
:D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 10, 2006, 02:54:40 PM
hey FisherAlum, thought you would be intrested, www.teamline.cc is broadcasting the games tonight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 10, 2006, 03:07:00 PM
That is why you are a super man!
Thanks for the info- hopefully I can stay awake after an extended happy hour!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 10, 2006, 07:20:35 PM
Just got onto the post page for the first time in a few days, and while I was catching up I was once again reminded how much I hate MadHawk...god
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 10, 2006, 07:21:22 PM
p.s. love the caddyshack dialogue...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2006, 07:36:20 PM
Fisher 75 Ithaca 59

Utica 73 RIT 66

Alfred 75 Elmira 56

Naz 66 Hartwick 62


I'm gonna get one right tonight, I can feel it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 10, 2006, 08:44:25 PM
ithaca only down 8 at the half 34-26 or something like that
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 10, 2006, 09:31:59 PM
Fisher by 21 over Ithaca...IC needs a big win tomorrow against UC for the all important 2 or 3 seed...Auman has a big game on senior night...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 10, 2006, 09:34:46 PM
just one more quick note...Fisher's seniors win their 90th game in the 4 years they have been there...amazing accomplishment, congratulations to the senior class.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 10, 2006, 09:50:06 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 10, 2006, 07:36:20 PM
Fisher 75 Ithaca 59

Utica 73 RIT 66
some scores: 87-66 Fisher

Utica wins at home against RIT. After the IC loss to Fisher tonight, UC takes sole possession of 2nd place in the E8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on February 10, 2006, 10:00:41 PM
from the scoreboard...

Hartwick 79, Nazareth 72

Not looking good for Naz
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 10, 2006, 10:20:51 PM
Pretty sloppy game @SJF tonight. Fisher really pulled away in the second half after looking pretty bad in the 1st. Big game for McGee as well as Auman. O'Brian probably could have averaged 20 a game this year if he felt like it, but he hasn't been looking to shoot that much in the games I've seen.

How IC beat RIT I'll never know, they looked aweful tonight. Joe and Burton look like a good combination in the backcourt for the future though. I wasn't really impressed with Bellis in this game. I know Bennett is a great defender, but Bellis was not aggressive at all unless Bennett was out of the game. The bench looked pretty weak for IC as well.

Then again, IC could have had twice the talent they have and still lost that game, Mullins is that bad.

Speaking of Senior night for Fisher, looking to next year, it looks like they may really struggle with their guard play. I know they will probably recruit well, but they only have one experienced guard coming back next year (Mueller).

Hartwick over Naz again, things are not looking good for GB15's prediction.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 10, 2006, 11:08:38 PM
Final from McLane Center:
AU 71, Elmira 51
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 10, 2006, 11:12:32 PM
Quote from: the bird man on February 10, 2006, 09:31:59 PM
Fisher by 21 over Ithaca...IC needs a big win tomorrow against UC for the all important 2 or 3 seed...Auman has a big game on senior night...
Gee, last I knew, IC was playing at AU tomorrow. As for Auman, he is class. Local boy from Genesee Valley (Belmont-Angelica)....should have played at AU. But happy he had a successful career at SJF.  Got a chance to speak with him about the AU-SJF football game during Thanksgiving break at a hoop tourney in Cuba. You Cardinal fans have probably tried to erase that particular Saturday from your minds.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 10, 2006, 11:24:42 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 09, 2006, 12:08:43 PM
AU, I think Col was referring to the basketball games. Do you guys not play at the hoops games?
You're right, GB15....thanks! I was thinking Col was from Utica. We do NOT play at the hoops games. It's just not the same. Football is the ideal sport for a pep band because with the huddle, you can play in response to every play. Basketball does not provide that opportunity. We tried it a few years ago but it's also tough getting our folks to the gym, especially with scheduling back-to-back Friday-Saturday games. We have no music major--we have engineers, glass scientists, etc. who have labs that take much of their weekends.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 10, 2006, 11:41:10 PM
Pretty easy win for us tonight.  RIT seemed to quit.  Played a lot of guys.  Ray was awsome.  If he doesn't win player of the year something is wrong.  He went for a double double and absolutey destroyed Snyder.  Now we should hammer Naz tomorrow.

By the way, bye bye GB15.  Hartwick will get number  4 and none of us wil have to see your posts anymore.  Please everyone make sure we hold him to his bold predictions.  And please MADHAWK do whatever you need to do but get another win and shut him up!

As for Ithaca as I predicted 0-2 baby after tomorrow.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 11, 2006, 12:03:38 AM
Ithaca was hanging close for a while and then start of the second half Fisher just started to rain 3's McGee broke the all time school record for most 3's but Brian Joe made a few 3's from beyond the NBA mark great shooting for him.  Game of the night was the women's game which Fisher trailing all game pulled out late.  Melissa Hartman was a beast tonight and could have taken on the Ithaca men's team
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 11, 2006, 01:03:47 AM
I'm still gonna post even if Hartwick gets 4 wins, Clear. If for no other reason than to destroy your stupid posts as I always do. I feel it is my duty to protect the E8 board from your assanine and uninformed opinions. I do, however, understand your desire to get rid of me. I mean, if another poster was consistently showing me up and proving I was wrong on a daily basis...I'd want them gone, too. I originally said if Hartwick got to 6 wins, I would never post again, then I lowered it to 4.

I'll still say they won't get to 6 wins. Say I'm not a man of my word, I'm fine with that. I'm going to be a lawyer for god sakes, of course I don't have ethics. But I'm not willing to give up proving you wrong everytime you take to this message board. "Utica by 20 over Fisher," or "Utica by 14 over Oswego," or "Utica is the best team in this league," or "Utica is different this year, they'll be able to win the big games in Rochester," or any other stupid statement you've made this year, and there have been a lot. I think I've pretty much served you each time you've opened your mouth about Utica basketball. And I like Budcrew, but you're doing everything in your power to make UC the most hated team in the E8. If you want to post some knowledge, do it...but you haven't done that yet.

I could have proven you wrong about the refs in the Superbowl, but I chose not to because coupled with your depression upon realizing Utica is a fraud, like always, it would be too much for your psyche, or lack thereof, to handle. If you still want me to, I will though.

Once again, I commend you on your bold prediction that Ithaca won't win either game this weekend. In honor of your testicular fortitude, I have some equally bold predictions of my own:

-The sun will rise in the East tomorrow
-Duke will make the NCAA tournament
-Hartwick will not make the NCAA tournament
-In ten years, St. John Fisher will still be located in Pittsford, NY
-In fifteen years, Utica still won't have an E8 title but you'll still be running your mouth because you're a hater, you're a nothing, your school is a piece of garbage for the most part, and you're just a guy whose dream is to hold the jock of a Utica College basketball player.

Aim high, Clear.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 11, 2006, 01:30:32 AM
I only have one prediction to offer:

One of the next 25 posts on this board will include the words "Booyah Folks!" and be written in 9,432-point type.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 11, 2006, 07:57:18 AM
GB and Caz,
It's Sat am and I'm still waiting for the clear and hawk response.
Hoping that clear found himself a life and went out to Champs bar and got a nice fat chick.
Hawk on the other hand still hasn't left his dorm room.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 11, 2006, 09:53:02 AM
Clear - Congratulations on the meaningless win, something Utica has excelled at getting.  The E8 tourney field is set.  That game meant nothing.  When you had a chance at marquee wins ( vs. Fisher, @ Fisher, @ RIT, @ Oswego ), your team does their best Indianapolis Colts impression. 

Even with McVean running guys in and out constantly it was still a close game.  Please cut the "easy win" crap, anyone who looks at the game stats can see the margin was between 5 and 10 points the entire second half.  And somehow I imagine Fran Snyder is sleeping just fine tonight after Bryant "destroyed" him -- which is a complete fabrication, considering Bryant played 35 minutes and Snyder played 18. 

You're an idiot.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 11, 2006, 10:41:40 AM
Clear, it takes a real man to spout off at the mouth when his team is doing well then, for the most part, completely disappear when his team has lost 3 out of 5 games like you did. That's class, friend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on February 11, 2006, 11:12:31 AM
Booyah


The Hartwick Basketball Emerging Dynasty is Progressing!

Evidence:

9 Wins
3 conference wins
2 conference home wins
1 conference road win
1 conference sweep (Naz)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last night's win against Naz brought tears to my eyes! What makes the win even sweeter is it was a complete team effort conducted by the Hawks. For the first time this season 5 Hawks were in double point figures and one of those five wasn't Jan COCOZZIELLO. I could go on and on about last nights win, but I have a life to conduct.

I think it is pretty safe to say that Naz didn't really have a chance in the game, except for the end of the game.

Ciao for now.....

More later.......

P.S.
GoBombers15 your days,hours,minutes are numbered on this board. You made a tactical mistake bumping your 6 win threshold down to 4. Enjoy your time us while you can!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 11, 2006, 11:20:03 AM
And who exactly is going to keep me from posting, MadHawk? You have a life to conduct? Is that the same life that entails thinking about Hartwick basketball as you fall asleep each night, as you so readily admitted? I hope you enjoy that life, say hi to your Mom for me because you obviously live with her.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 11, 2006, 12:08:42 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 10, 2006, 11:18:51 AM
In all likelihood, Budcrew, you're gonna have to see one of the Rochester teams in the first round. I don't think RIT is going to be too scared playing Utica in the Roc, considering their success against the Pioneers in that city.

At Fisher, RIT vs Utica series is split 1-1 in the last 2 seasons.

RIT never had a chance last night. Utica fixed the problems they had in the first game, played their game, made their free throws, and dominated.

Snyder only scored 2 points. It seems he may be having some problems with his knee again. Number 30 off the bench can jump out of the gym.

The officials last night were the most professional crew I have seen all season. A complete 180 from the garbage crew that did the Oswego game. Last nights guys made a few bad calls both ways, but were consistent, not influenced by either coach or crowd, and went by the book. It was nice to see.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 11, 2006, 12:18:03 PM
Alfred is a team that may be a spoiler in the next few weekends. They have a lot of talent, and did not live up to their potential. They are a team that could want to go out on a bang.

Q. Bryant wasn't in the starting lineup against UC. I am not sure if he is back in it or not.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 11, 2006, 03:59:42 PM
Not that they were likely to get a spot in the E8 tourney, but Naz sure is playing itself right out of the tourney isn't it? That loss to Hartwick last night likely sealed their fate. Of the bottom teams, Hartwick's victory was least expected, but maybe it's just evidence Naz has given up on the season.

Alfred's win was no surprise, I'm just surprised the Saxons didn't win by more against the team who has no conference wins and just three overall. Elmira is just awful and Alfred has plenty of talent. However, I see IC getting the win at McLane today. A beating at the hands of Fisher combined with poor coaching by Murphy should equal a Bombers win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 11, 2006, 06:31:48 PM
Final from McLane Center:
IC 91, AU 83
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 11, 2006, 07:06:53 PM
clear, don't listen to the haters,   Ray did do some destroying in that game     my vote is logged

AU, I am from Utica
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 11, 2006, 07:30:15 PM
Around the E8 today...

Fisher 78-52 over Elmira to clinch the #1 seed for the E8 tournament and the right to host.  Tough task ahead for the other 3 teams in the field to beat the Cards at their house.  Dan McSweeney 19 points, 22 and 11 in defeat for Micah Owens, who seems like a genuinely good player that should be applying his talents for a school that gives a crap, rather than EC.

RIT blows an 18-point second half lead but nips Hartwick in OT 96-90, not taking control until the final minute.  34 points in defeat for Jan Cocococooozielo.  Col, Bamm and Tigerfan2 probably feel like they just narrowly missed a deadly car accident like those kids in Final Destination 2.  You know, before they all died anyway or something cuz death had a plan.  What stupid movies those were.

Utica plows Naz 98-74.  No box info available on d3hoops.com.

Ithaca over Alfred 91-83 behind a career day for Jim Bellis with 31 points and 13 rebounds.  I was half-expecting to lose this one.  Yaay that we won and stuff.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 11, 2006, 07:50:50 PM
Ithaca is going 0-2 this weekend. Guaranteed.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 12, 2006, 12:24:23 AM
Some quick hitters then a look at how the All-Conference accolades should shake out:

-Should be a busy E8 tournament weekend in Pittsford as both the Fisher men and women have already clinched home-court advantage by virtue of winning the regular season championships. The women's games will likely start at 12 and 2:30 pm on Saturday, the gym will be cleared, and the men's games will begin at 6 and 8:30pm. The E8 depends on this tournament as a big source of funds so they're going to want two separate gate funds. I've heard rumblings that they may play the women's semis on Friday night, the men's semis on Saturday afternoon, the women's final on Saturday night, and the men's final on Sunday afternoon. It'll be interesting to see how they do it.

-Clear is wrong again, as usual. He guaranteed Ithaca would go 0-2 this weekend and, lo and behold, they went 1-1. Knowing the Bombers would lose at Fisher, Clear really only needed to get one game right for his prediction to come to fruition. I think we know what happened from there. Nice work, Clear.

-Hartwick may be better than I thought but they're still a distant 7th in the conference, which is exactly where I picked them to finish in the conference.

-Naz: it's time to hire a new coach. No reason that team should have the ups and downs that it is having. They have some young players but they are very talented. Daley has had a fork in his back for the last 3 seasons.

-Another impressive win for Utica in a game that doesn't really mean anything. The Pioneers are nauseatingly predictable at this point.

-Jim Bellis lights up Alfred again. I think he has Alfred's vote for E8 POY considering his two games against the Saxons this year.

-Speaking of E8 POY, I think it's a four horse race at this point. Here are the candidates:

-Ray Bryant: Pros: In the top 4 for scoring, rebounding, FG %. Can be a double-double machine when he's on. Cons: Utterly invisible in his team's two biggest conference games of the season (Fisher, twice). Wasn't one of the three best players on the court in either game.

-Jim Bellis: Pros: Smoothe as they come on the offensive end. Good outside shooter, can get to the rack and will shoot a lot of FT's. Probably the most athletic player pound-for-pound in the league when he feels like displaying it. Only consistent scoring threat for Ithaca. After Fisher beat Ithaca in the Bulb, Nick Bennett was quoted in The Ithacan as saying that Bellis is his toughest assignment in the E8. Cons: Defers to others too much. Rarely likes to take the game over. Will settle for a jumpers when he can get to rack or the foul line. Doesn't have the killer instict when the game is on the line. Too many defensive lapses.

-Sean O'Brien: Pros: For my money, the most valuable and best player in the league. I think every poster would take him first if they were starting a team and could have any player in the conference. As he showed in the 2nd Utica game, can take any game over if he wants to; he simply chooses not to  because of Fisher's vast arsenal. He is a winner. Cons: When it really comes down to it, doesn't have the numbers of the other contenders. That will be the only reason he doesn't win.

-Joe Canori: Pros: Offensively gifted player. One of the nicest jumpers you'll see when he's not forcing things. A true scorer in every sense of the word. Leading scorer in the conference. Type of guy you'll watch and say "he didn't have that great of a game," then you'll come home to see he scored 23 points. Cons: Has laid some eggs in big spots this year. Tends to force the issue instead of letting the game come to him. Sometimes has trouble getting his own shot. If he's having an off game he tends to disappear(see every time he has played Fisher). Still just a sophomore and that will be held against him.

Sorry for the length of the post, fellas. I'll post what I think the all-conference teams are going to be tomorrow. I think we're gonna be surprised by one or two of the players on the 1st team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 12, 2006, 12:16:15 PM
Bamm and GB you guys need to get a life.  You spend more time on here nocking other posters when nobody knocks you.  First off Bamm - the RIT Utica game was never in doubt.  I was there, were you?  They sustained a comfortable margin the whole way.  So you get a clue about attacking a post from someone who was at the game. 
Number 2 My prediction of ALfred over Ithaca was an upset prediction, not a lock.  Perhaps I think Ithaca is a better team than you do, since you felt it wouldn't be a shock to see them lose that game.  Alfred stinks.  As your boys to rank the E-8 teams and i guarentee the only team they would rank below Alfred is Elmira.
Yesterday's game was a complete joke.  Cichon could have scored 40 if he played more.  They did whatever they wanted to do.
We need to get through next week and and then Tuesday of the following week against a very underrated Hartwick team and then onto the only thing that matters at this point, the tournament.
Funny how I made a post last week about the same thing and yet GB you continue to post meaninless wins by the Pioneers.  Get a life dude.  And by the way my Father is a lawyer, you are not doing any lawyers any good by speaking out of your behind like your some sort of hotshot lawyer about not keeping your word.  GET A CLUE AND GROW UP.

My league awards (nothing is going to change over the next 2/3 games for these teams as far as me having a change of heart.

Coach Of the year:
Rob Kornaker SJF - The best players overall but he gets them to play hard and together.  A tip to the strength coach over there though because that team is jacked physically.
Honorable mention:
Paul Culpo Hartwick - I am not sure I have seen anyone do more with less than what he has done in a very short period of time.  He will probable get 4 or 5 league wins, has a great freshman and has done an excellent job.
Bob McVean RIT - What else can you say.  The 3rd best team and they LOST 4 starters from last year.  Great job!


Player of the Year:
Sean O'Brien  SJF - Best player on the best team.  He controls every game and could score 20 if the team needs it, or gets 10 assists if the team needs it.  In my opinion he was better than  Sydney last year.
Honorable mention:
Ray Bryant Utica - He is the BEST player in the league.  But I want him to dominate when it matter most.  IS the one guy capable of taking down Fisher in a few weeks.
Too many other guys that in my opinion that are basically neck and neck.

Freshman of the year:
Is this vote I am only including freshman since some leagues have newcomer of the year which in this case is Bryant (Read above).
Jan Cocozziello  Hartwick - Not even close.  He is a first team player in this league right now.  He is better than Canori right now, and if people are going to put him into this caliber then this kid should be 1st team too.  But in any event a landslide here for this award.
Honorable mention:
Sean Burton Ithaca - A nice point guard who should be a fixture at Ithaca for the next 3 years.
Doug Herring Utica - A solid player who can shoot from long range and has held up under the pressure of being the point guard on the 2nd best team.

To MADHAWK:
Team of the future:
Hartwick - Great young kids with a dominant player.  If that staff can continue to recruit like it has so far you are going to be one happy poster.
Nazareth - Really like the young kids on this team, just need a point guard to run the team
Utica - Yes we lose 3 key guys, but we return the best player, our inside guys and Herring.

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 12, 2006, 12:25:41 PM
after having seen coco and Burton, Burton wins this award in a landslide.  Ray Bryant needs to show up for Utica to make it out of the first round.  While I know that fisher won't be as strong next year as this year, you never know. Fisher doesn't rebuild they reload.  Again I repeat after having seen all of the best players in this league the only one who has impressed me is Bellis.  Naz is always a tough game, next fridays games should be very fun.  After having talked to several guys on the team, they admitted to taking the first game lightly, I can't see them doing this again
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 12, 2006, 12:27:14 PM
First decent post for you in awhile, Clear. By the way, I'm not speaking out like some "hotshot lawyer," surely you jest. You should realize by now that I'm just give you a hard time about 90% of the time, but you do bring it on yourself a lot of the time.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 12, 2006, 12:41:25 PM
Wow,
Everyone is playing nice nice.
Where is Hawk when you need him to say something stupid! :o
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 12, 2006, 03:37:48 PM
Clear -- I'm sorry for attacking you personally.  I hope I didn't hurt your feelings too badly. 

Here's the way the tourney would shape up if it started today:

RIT (3) vs. Utica (2)
Ithaca (4) vs. Fisher (1)

However, this could and should change.  Ithaca has played one less game than RIT, and if they win two of three against Utica, Hartwick, and Elmira they will be tied with the Tigers for third -- a tie that would be broken by Ithaca's two wins over RIT. 

So -- in two weeks look for RIT/Fisher and Ithaca/Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 12, 2006, 05:09:23 PM
I can barely believe it but I think that Clear is right on with his predictions, on POY and COY...I still think he is being a little kind to Utica thinking that they are up for team of the future, but hey he is a fan...

I think Fisher will be a real tough team to beat again next year for a few reasons. First, they lose a lot, but do return beigle, Mcsweeny, Smalt, a very strong inside presence. As far as bringing the ball up and guard play, I think a lot of the Fisher bench players would see a lot of time on some other E8 teams, and kornaker is a great recruiter which will help.
I would pick them to be in the mix for a league title next year, but hey I am a fan...

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 12, 2006, 06:48:18 PM
You have to be careful with the POY award. This league can sometimes do crazy things with this award. I wouldn't be surprised if Micah Owens of Elmira comes close to winning it, either. Look at his numbers, he's at the top of almost every statistical category.

Don't get me wrong, I think winning should count for something but I've seen similar situations where a player from an awful team won solely because of stats. In '03-'04, the Ithaca women's team had by far the two best players in the league (Swatling and Cleary) and they were on a team that went something like 13-1 in the conference. The E8 gave the POY award to some girl on Elmira, a 2-12 team, who averaged like 23 pts/game because she was that team's only threat. This girl from Elmira, at best, was the 5th or 6th best player in the league (Fisher had some that were better, too), yet she won. I'm sure CazBombers remembers this because we were both pretty shocked.

With that said, here's how I think the all-conference awards will shake out:

Coach of the Year: Kornaker-St. John Fisher. Not even close, but Culpo from Hartwick will get some consideration.

Rookie of the Year: Jan Cocozziello-Hartwick. I think it's closer than Clear makes it out to be, though. Cocozziello has to do everything for that team so, obviously, his numbers will be better than guys like Burton and Herring. I think if you put Burton in the same position he could do many of the same things that Cocozziello does. Burton is a very important cog for Ithaca and without him they wouldn't have been nearly as successful this year.

Player of the Year: Ray Bryant- Utica. As I mentioned yesterday, I think most would agree that O'Brien is the most valuable and best player in the league. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the numbers Bryant does. It will be interesting to see if the coaches overlook that fact, but I sincerely doubt it.

All Conference 1st Team

Sean O'Brien-SJF: Obvious pick. It's a joke if he's not on the 1st team.
Joe Canori-Naz: Got off to a great start but has faded of late. I could easily see t his spot going to Cichon but I think Canori gets it because he'll have the scoring title.
Jim Bellis-IC: Bellis has continually improved over the years and makes the jump from 2nd team to 1st team. He deserves it.
Ray Bryant-UC: Has the numbers for the 2nd place team in the league.
Dillon Stein-AU: One of the few competent big guys in the league and has good numbers.

All-Conference 2nd Team

Quentin Bryant-AU: On talent alone, there are few with more. May have been hurt by having to sit out the first semester.
Justin Cichon-UC: Like I said, may be a 1st teamer. Addition of Bryant hurt his numbers but still probably the most valuable player to the Pioneers.
Fran Snyder-RIT: When I think of this guy, it will always be "what could have been?" He was awesome his first two years but bad knees really slowed him down. It's too bad.
Micah Owens-EC: See above. Has the numbers but is hurt by being on such a terrible team. He should still be rewarded for bringing it every night.
Dan McSweeney-SJF: Really improved this year. Leads the league in FG% and is a force defensively, blocking and altering shots.

Honorable Mention

Jan Cocozziello-HC: Good numbers. Has been a savior for the Hawks.
Barrett Zeinfeld-RIT: Potent outside shooter for the Tigers.
Mike McGee-SJF: Best shooter in the league. Doesn't do much else which will keep him from being on one of the top two teams.
Ryan MacAdam-Naz: Streaky player with a lot of talent. Has had enough good games to get him this honor.
Brian Andruskiewicz-IC: Could have been a 1st teamer this year. Not really sure what happened with this one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 13, 2006, 08:46:42 AM
GB - those look like good picks, though I can't believe I'd say this but Coco may belong on the 2nd team.  Wick would be winless minus that kid.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 13, 2006, 10:45:51 AM
I agree.  I can't imagine how anyone would say that Burton is better than him.  First off, Coco averages more assists/game and averages more points on a worse team.  If you put these guys on the "other" team Ithaca may challenge for the league and Hartwick would be in more trouble than they are right now.  If you are going to put Canori on first team, then Coco should be there too.

Bellsi/Coc would be a pretty formidable 1-2 punch.

POY is going to be the interesting one!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 13, 2006, 10:49:34 AM
I'm going off of the one time I saw both of these players play against fisher.  Coco disappered and Burton was one of the only bright spots for an otherwise weak Ithaca squad
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 13, 2006, 11:17:22 AM
Regardless of whether or not you consider it relevant or right, don't disregard the angle that O'Brien is a senior and Bryant has another year to win the award.  O'Brien has been one of the biggest contributors, maybe the most important one, on the best team in the league for three years -- that fact will probably enter the coach's minds.  It still might not be enough to overcome the numbers, though.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 13, 2006, 12:11:36 PM
I agree, Bamm, and I do hope that's the case. The "age" consideration will come into play, which I think is what will also ultimately cost Cocozziello a spot on one of the top two teams. I'd be very surprised if they picked a freshman(Cocozziello) over a senior (Q.Bryant) for that spot. Ditto for Cichon and Canori. It may not be fair, but that's how it works. How else does one explain why Chris Paul isn't on the Western Conference All-Star team? The only thing he has going against him is age.

Other than that, I think the teams will come out pretty close to that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 13, 2006, 01:55:52 PM
GB-ooooooo I smell an age discrimination lawsuit!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 13, 2006, 02:06:01 PM
congrats on post 500 FisherAlum
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 13, 2006, 02:41:49 PM
Wow!
I didn't even notice!
I'd like to thank the academy...
Geez - how many more till I advance in rank?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 13, 2006, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 13, 2006, 02:41:49 PM
Wow!
I didn't even notice!
I'd like to thank the academy...
Geez - how many more till I advance in rank?

A lot. I'm pretty up there and still stuck at Starter. I keep asking Pat to increase my role but he says I have to stay a starter for a bit longer.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 13, 2006, 03:40:03 PM
GB - We have been on here for a long time!
3 years for me.
Wow- oh well we'll just have to keep typing!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 14, 2006, 09:12:42 AM
A great article on PK the womens baskeball coach on ESPN
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/columns/story?columnist=mowins_beth&id=2324731
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 14, 2006, 09:46:13 AM
Great article about a  class act.
Took the ladies to the final four while I was there!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 14, 2006, 10:36:11 AM
Wow. Great article about non- DI athletics. ESPN writers need to do more articles like this one. I had no idea that the Fisher coach had that many wins.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 14, 2006, 12:31:51 PM
That was a good article. Also, that picture was the first time I've seen him awake on the sidelines. Ok, I made that last part up, but he's so calm over there I wonder sometimes if he's even watching the game. He and his assistant are definitely funny to watch because he looks so ambivalent and she's running up and down the sidelines and screaming at refs.

Also, Jim Bellis and Ray Bryant share E8 Player of the Week honors. Jan Cocozziello wins E8 Rook of the Week. Considering Sean O'Brien has won Player of the Week exactly Zero times, I have a feeling the coaches aren't going to give him this award. I'm sure he's fine with that, too.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 14, 2006, 02:07:39 PM
or that the Fisher Womens Basketball, is the winningest program in d3 history
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 14, 2006, 09:07:04 PM
Great article about a great coach...It still blows my mind that the facility is not named after him. At least the gym if not the entire life center...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 15, 2006, 07:37:20 AM
The Gym should be named for him.
Life ctr i s too obscure.
The Kahler Gymnasium
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on February 15, 2006, 08:18:37 AM
Booyah Folks,

Before I continue with the body of my post I would like to thank Pat Coleman for the oppourtunity to post on this board. Without his hardwork and generosity we would not have have a venue to talk about Empire 8 basketball on the internet.

Now onto the main portion of the post.

This post is not about the upcoming playoffs, players of the year, coaches of the year. What this post is about is our fellow poster GoBombers15.

Earlier in the season GoBombers15 naively stated that he will no longer post on d3hoops.com if Hartwick wins 6 conference games. After Hartwick's losing streak to start the conference season he lowered his challenge to 4 conference games.Well folks with Elmira coming up on Friday night a 4 conferennce win is imminent. This would mean that our embattled fellow poster made a tacital mistake lowering his challenge.

Believe me I am not going to let this go once it happens. However, after much thought I am not going to seek GoBombers15 removal on this board. Although this board could fuction without GoBombers15, it wouldn't be good for the future of this board. However, there is a catch! I ask for boards support in the following ways in the punishment of GoBombers15:

1. Demotion from starter to waterboy
2. An Icon change for a Iraqi solider to the Hartwick Hawk Head
3. A post limit of 1 per day, with each post ending with a positive comment about Hartwick Basketball and negative comment about Ithaca.

I hope all of you will support me on this endeavour. Have a nice day and let the rebuttals from GoBombers begin! There will be NO plea bargins!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 15, 2006, 08:42:32 AM
Hawk,
Now that is funny!

Moron.

kid - go to class- who knows you may even meet a chick
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 15, 2006, 09:43:23 AM
Quote
Before I continue with the body of my post I would like to thank Pat Coleman for the oppourtunity to post on this board. Without his hardwork and generosity we would not have have a venue to talk about Empire 8 basketball on the internet.

Mad Hawk,
While we do appreciate the opportunity to talk E8 basketball, you have been nothing but annoying in your time here on the board. So take a paper towel and wipe the brown off your nose and lips and slowly unfasten your lips from PC's ass.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 15, 2006, 10:00:17 AM
Quote from: budcrew08 on February 15, 2006, 09:43:23 AM
Mad Hawk,
While we do appreciate the opportunity to talk E8 basketball, you have been nothing but annoying in your time here on the board. So take a paper towel and wipe the brown off your nose and lips and slowly unfasten your lips from PC's ass.

Well put.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 15, 2006, 10:32:46 AM
Wow,  So that's how MadHawk is still on this board, so for fairness sake I say that we go with 5 hartwick wins.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 15, 2006, 11:05:30 AM
GB- what is your take on this fine young man? :P
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 16, 2006, 03:59:51 PM
Where did everybody go? :-\
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2006, 05:27:04 PM
I'll reply to MadHawk's latest stupid post and other things either tonight or tomorrow. It's getting busy around here for me with school and everything.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 16, 2006, 07:56:55 PM
Hey leave Hawk alone, he is wacko but he is entertaining, remember this is entertainment afterall and Hartwick did get better this year

With all the names out there for conference all stars , no one mentioned Nick Bennett.  In my humble opinion great games start with great defense and Bennett is one of the toughest defenders in the league.  When Fisher plays well and plays a cut above others as it did several times this year it was games when Bennett shut down or held other teams stud to average to poor games.  Some one mentioned that O"brien can turn it on anytime when needed, well watch Bennett when he keys on a player he is tough, His intensity is what defense is about

As a dad I need to go watch my daughter play in her first high school sectional game Friday Night,  I can't believe I will miss the Fisher/naz rematch that venue will be hopping.  The previous game was as much fun as any game this year even with Fisher losing.  ( I predict Fisher by 20 even with Canori scoring 14 this time around)

Oh well back to the olympics
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 16, 2006, 09:04:41 PM
That place will probably be sold out by the start of the womens game.  A lot of Fisher Students got shut out of the last game so from what I have heard everyone is planning on going real early.  As in the Athletic department told us that they start selling tickets at 5:00 pm
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 17, 2006, 11:35:25 AM
This is just weird- like out of the twilight zone-
Everyone is gone like it is off season!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 17, 2006, 11:36:43 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 17, 2006, 11:35:25 AM
This is just weird- like out of the twilight zone-
Everyone is gone like it is off season!

Everyone is catching their breath for tournament time... only a couple of weeks left!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 17, 2006, 11:37:31 AM
Does Hartwick still have a chance at the tournament?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 17, 2006, 11:40:33 AM
Quote from: col on February 17, 2006, 11:37:31 AM
Does Hartwick still have a chance at the tournament?

I don't think they do... I think the four teams in the tourney are going to be Fisher, Utica, RIT and Ithaca, not necessarily in that order. Hartwick only has 4 conference wins, it'll take a little time, if they can get someone to complement Coco.

Short answer: No.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 17, 2006, 12:19:05 PM
no chance 4th place is currently 7 wins and hartwick has 3 wins right now with 3 left to play.  So hartwick will win the nice boobey prize of sucking again this year.  Yes they were better, but with out coco crisp coming back they are going to suck yet again  GO FISHER Kick the $h1T out of naz
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 17, 2006, 12:49:25 PM
Beat Naz!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 17, 2006, 01:05:13 PM
Looks like Naz, AU, Hartwick and Elmira will be left out in the cold. Saxons were picked, with their talent, to finish in the Top Four, yet couldn't muster a winning record. Murphy's coaching trademark has been hard work and discipline....but the results have been mediocre.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 17, 2006, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on February 17, 2006, 01:05:13 PM
Murphy's coaching trademark has been hard work and discipline....but the results have been mediocre.

Jay Murphy is the worst coach in the E8. Mike Daley may be a close second, but I don't think a coach in the league has squandered as much talent over the past few years as Murphy has. There have been some unfortunate injuries at AU, but with the talent they have, AU has consistently been a disappointment.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2006, 03:56:58 PM
Like I said, I'll get to MadHawk's post tomorrow after classes when I get a chance to catch my breath. Here are my picks for tonight's games:

RIT over Alfred, 80-71.

Fisher over NAZ, 73-63.

ELMIRA over Hartwick, 15-12 (or 67-65).

Utica over ITHACA, 73-70 (OT), followed by Clear coming in here and saying the game wasn't nearly as close as it looked despite there being 14 lead changes and 10 ties in the 2nd half alone. I'm honestly rooting for Utica to win this one because I don't think they can beat the Bombers three times in one season. Like Charles Barkley's book title says, "I could be wrong, but I doubt it."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 17, 2006, 04:14:28 PM
Don't forget that we will be remembered that Ray Bryant is the best player in the history of the E8 and that Utica will now move on to beat SJF on the road by 20, because Utica never loses to other teams, they just beat themselves.

The prediction of UC over EC by eleventy billion will also be included, but everyone knows that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 17, 2006, 04:25:25 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on February 17, 2006, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on February 17, 2006, 01:05:13 PM
Murphy's coaching trademark has been hard work and discipline....but the results have been mediocre.

Jay Murphy is the worst coach in the E8. Mike Daley may be a close second, but I don't think a coach in the league has squandered as much talent over the past few years as Murphy has. There have been some unfortunate injuries at AU, but with the talent they have, AU has consistently been a disappointment.

Tigerfan, I couldn't agree with you more. I have no idea where the hardwork and discipline have been, but Murphy's players have not historically been the most well behaved players off the court. One guy even left for a year due to drinking issues. As for hard work, that has me in the dark. Maybe the players have worked hard, but Murphy loses out on kids in his own backyard. The most glaring one is the Smalt kid at Fisher. He played at a local high school and Murphy didn't notice him until sectionals of his senior year when it was too late to do anything. And it's not like the kid wasn't lighting everyone up in his league for the previous 2-3 years.

With an inside-outside combo like Q. Bryant and Stein, there is no reason AU shouldn't be in the top four, especially with an OK supporting cast. It's become clear that AU will amount to nothing until Jay Murphy is no longer coaching there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2006, 09:21:40 PM
14 mins remaining in Ithaca, Utica just took their first lead of the game at 43-42. The pioneers have led for exactly :10 seconds in the game so far. Just in case Clear tried to tell you of Utica's domination.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2006, 09:42:06 PM
Utica goes on a 22-8 run to take a 60-50 lead. During that span, Jim Mullins called exactly zero timeouts. He is also playing a very offensively-deficient lineup. During the last four minutes, the only scorer he had on the floor was Bellis, who was accompanied by Brian Kern, Whetstone, Stahn, and Jeff Bostic. That's an awful crunch time lineup. Gotta love that coach.

Ithaca star PG Sean Burton is not playing this evening due to a groin injury. He will likely be held out of tomorrow's game as well. Mullins expects him to be back for the tournament.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2006, 09:48:27 PM
Ithaca responds, cutting Utica's lead to 66-62 with 2 minutes remaining. Bellis is having a huge game and is carrying Ithaca right now. He's singlehandedly keeping them in the game right now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2006, 09:53:02 PM
Utica leads 71-66 with 38.2 seconds. Lucas hits a 3-pointer as the shot clock wound down. Dagger of a shot.

By the way, there is no doubt in my mind that Clear is in attendance at that game. Everything you need to know about Clear, I can sum up by describing the Utica fan base. You know how after most teams score the crowd applauds and cheers like normal people? Well after every Utica basket their fans go "Ooooohhhhhhh." Not like "oh that was awesome," but like "ohhhhh, snap, you just got sauced." Ghetto fans, besides Budcrew, for a ghetto team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 17, 2006, 10:21:26 PM
Fisher squeaks one out tonight,  Ahead 67-64 with 1 second left, naz put up a great shot that went in and out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2006, 10:23:56 PM
Rivalry aside, why is Fisher having such a problem with Naz this year but handling Utica? That rivalry existed the last two years and Fisher was beating the snot outta Naz, what's changed this year?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 17, 2006, 10:26:24 PM
I guess I never should have opened my mouth, as AU beats RIT by 3 tonight. AU was hot from 3 pt range throughout, I haven't seen the box score, but they had to have at least 15 3's. This was one of those games they showed the potential they have. The refs really let the teams play, but it was pretty balanced for both sides. Dillon Stein could get an Oscar for the 2 charges he drew, but he sold it, so they were good plays. I think even he knew he got away with a couple, judging by the smiles after the play.

RIT had big games from Zeinfeld (22 pts, 19 in the 1st half), Snyder, and Bacon.

Hallett from AU had a big game, he had 20+ on a number of 3's. I'm suprised he had enough time to actually play the game given all the time he spend staring into the stands. I guess you have to be pround to finish out your career with another bottom half finish in the league and no post season appearences.
Props also to the one kid on AU's bench who was a one man cheering section.

RIT should get used to this style of play, however, as Fisher is going to play the same way and shoot just as well. If they can't step up vs. AU then tomorrow may not be pretty.

Yeah, I'm bitter but AU just outplayed RIT tonight so congrats to them. I haven't looked at the standings, but if they beat Naz tomorrow, they may finish in 5th.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2006, 10:32:19 PM
Looks like tonight's action pretty much seals the 1st round games in the tourney, unless RIT upsets Fisher tomorrow.

RIT @ Fisher
Ithaca vs Utica

Did anyone catch the post-game interview following the Ithaca/Utica game tonight? Utica's coach kept going on about his sole goal for the remainder of the regular season was to avoid Fisher in the E8 tournament. You're gonna have to play them eventually if you're gonna go to the NCAA's, coach! You may be better off playing them on Saturday afternoon, like Ithaca did last year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 17, 2006, 10:40:38 PM
I was wondering why fisher doesn't play well against Naz the way I see it is that they play down to them.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 18, 2006, 01:19:01 AM
Fisher struggles against Naz because Naz plays as well as they possibly can, and Fisher plays like they are playing an 8-16 team...I guess it just that simple.

As long as they win it is cool...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 18, 2006, 08:59:28 AM
Gosh It looks like I missed a barn burner.  Was it as much fun as the fist game? I did hear that the officiating was quite one side towards Naz and that Naz set several illegal screens to free up Canori ( who I heard was hot)
Also heard that 700 people were turned away and that they may consider the Blue Cross Arena next year.

Anyone who was there care to comment?

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 18, 2006, 10:04:16 AM
it was a fabulous game. There were many calls that went for Naz but despite that, Naz lost the game b/c they missed a lot and I mean a lot of easy layups. Fisher almost gave them the game but held on for the win. As it relates to people being turned away. They started letting more people in as the Men's game started. I actually was one of the people waiting. I was glad I waited b/c that was a great game last night.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 18, 2006, 10:09:28 AM
tigerfan2, are you making fun of Bryant and saying that he isn't the best player in the league???
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 18, 2006, 12:26:04 PM
Man I still hate Naz!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 18, 2006, 12:36:22 PM
speaking of people getting turned away from the game...The 2 schools really need to do something about the situation with the size of the two gyms.

There is just not enough room in either school's gym for the game. I think the blue cross arena is a good idea. They need to move the game to a place where they can at least get a few 100 more fans in the building. Maybe move the game to another school with a bigger gym, like RIT or U of R.

A few times I was thinking about how a great game, between such great rivals could get any better. The only thing I could think of was having a bigger crowd. I like the idea that the gym is packed full of intense fans, but they could easily fit about a 1,000 more. I know about 700 got turned away, but I also know a lot more that did not come simply because at 6:30 when they were ready to go they figured that it was far too late to get in...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 18, 2006, 12:37:51 PM
and Fisheralum91...I still hate Naz too...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 18, 2006, 02:01:48 PM
I agree with the idea that the game should be put at a larger, neutral venue. However, that raises some logistical questions that may not be easily solved:

1) Do we play both games at a neutral venue?

2) If we only play one of the games at a neutral venue, who gets the home game and then who has to spend their home game playing at a neutral site? Does it rotate?

3) Would the game be as good without the intimacy of a small D3 gym if it were to be put in Blue Cross Arena? Maximum, 3,000 people would go to that game. There'd be a lot of empty seats which would take away from some of the atmosphere.

4) Maybe put the game in a big high school gym like Webster Schroeder's? A nice, big high school gym that probably fits as much as Fisher and Naz's gyms do, combined. Also, it is probably just the right size for it to be packed.

Basically, I don't think either school would consent to playing this game at a different venue

Predictions for today's games:

ITHACA 71 Hartwick 55

Utica 82 ELMIRA 58

NAZ 77 Alfred 68

Fisher 80 RIT 73

I likely won't be able to post until tomorrow because there's Mardi Gras parades all day today and then it's Memphis at Tulane tonight (we're gonna get worked, bad). If by some act of God Ithaca loses to Hartwick, don't think I threw myself into the Mississippi River.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on February 18, 2006, 02:33:03 PM
A few comments from a long time reader of d3hoops and seldom poster. I think GB has it right on the money in numbers 3 and 4. The Naz-Fisher game must be played in a small venue and I dont think a neutral court is a good idea. Stepping onto the other schools turf is half the reason why this becomes such a big game. I spent one year in school at Naz before transfering to RIT and I can tell you that half the reason the game is so big is because the schools dislike each other so much any reason to set foot on the other schools campus and act like an asshole its definetly worth it. You move that game to a neutral site I am guaranteeing you lost at least 600 fans. The location of the games is what makes the rivalry so crazy....I also think there is no way either team would agree to change the game because of the income it brings in. Students arent the only ones at these games it brings out the basketball fan in everyone.....

I also would like to comment on this coaching debate of Daley and Murphy. While I think both coaches suck and have done very little with tons of talent, I think you have to look at Daley as being the worst coach in the league. He has been coaching for what 20 years and has a .500 record. He has been to 2 to NCAA championship tournaments in 20 years. He had a team a few years back with Jimmy Evans (Although I hated watching him play I believe led the league in scoring and assists at least once and maybe twice) and Lawrence Maroney who is the most gifted athlete the Empire 8 has seen in decades, along with a solid big man in Fran Ziblockli. Now while this team did win 22 games, it failed to make the big dance and lost 3 crucial Empire 8 games in a row after starting the year 14-2(beating an undefeated and nationally #2 ranked U of R in the chase).  I also believe one of those losses was to a horrible Hartwick team at home. This group of sophomores was supposed to be the second coming at Naz and they are about to finish 8-17. I dont think anybody in the Empire 8 even comes close to Daley at doing less with more.....follow up note does anyone from Naz know what happened to those 2 from Naz Evans and Maroney? I heard Evans was clowning it up against the Globetrotters and Maroney was on his 3rd kid with the hot girl that used to play basketball. Any truth to this?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 18, 2006, 02:37:14 PM
we have the best player in the league and can't wait until we meet Fisher in the championship game next week.  
-peace out!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 18, 2006, 04:18:20 PM
Ithaca opens the game on a 12-2 run against Hartwick. Well that was close for all of 10 seconds.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 18, 2006, 05:17:30 PM
IC by 25 over Hartwick with 10 mins remaining. The scrubs are already starting to come in for the Bombers. Maybe in 2010, MadHawk.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 18, 2006, 05:45:13 PM
Fisher over RIT by 14, easy one for the Cards...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 18, 2006, 06:09:09 PM
It wasn't exactly a barnburner, but I wouldn't call it "easy" either.  It was a five point game with four minutes left.  RIT overtook them early in the second half for a couple of minutes as well.  Fran Snyder played well in his last game at home, drawing fouls consistently against Nick Bennett (who fouled out). 

These two will play again in a week.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 18, 2006, 06:13:01 PM
RIT actually had a lead in the early stages of the 2nd half but then, as per usual, gave it away and Fisher pulled away.

O'Brien, McGee and Biegel had big games for SJF. Snyder had a good game for RIT in his final home game. Bennett couldn't really stay with him as Snyder drew a couple early fouls and then a couple more in the second half. Fisher had to switch Bennett off of Snyder at one point, not that it really mattered in the end.

I'm guessing it will be more of the same next weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 18, 2006, 06:40:11 PM
I was at the game, RIT will get run out of town if they can't stop the inside out side play.  McGee and O'brien were nailing them from out side and Biegel killed RIT inside.  The fact the Snyder only had 17 points without bennet in the game for most of it. says to me that Snyder had an off game and that they need him to turn it up inorder to stand a chance to win next week
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 18, 2006, 10:54:52 PM
My only hope is that we get to play Ithaca next week so I can have the satisfaction of beating up on them for the 3rd time.  GB15 you crack me up.  You talk smack about your team and you are a pathetic 12-12.  Are you kidding me?  12-12! 
First you are a coward for not taking responsibility for your stupid posts.  You stated if Hartwick had 4 wins you'd never post again.  Too bad for the rest of us as they got to 4 wins and you are still posting.  Be a man of honor and leave.
Second you are a bully for talking crap about beating up on Hartwick (who by the way couldn't beat anyone without Cocozziello - and he didn't play today obviously) like that is a big deal.

GET A CLUE.  I supose it will be groundbreaking next Tuesday when you kill Elmira?  Your team stinks - check your record versus teams with winning records.  It is PATHETIC!!!  Where are your QUALITY WINS?   

Go back to law school and learn about LIFE dude.  GET A CLUE.

MADHAWK - Nice weekend, you got the split you needed but unfortunately he is a dispicable fan that won't honor his word.  Don't worry though as they will be 1 and done next week and we won't have to listen to him celebrate great wins versus LOSING TEAMS.

Look forward to Tuesday Madhawk.  I just hope we rest everyone and that no one gets hurt.

Oh I forget I should be like GB...... Yeah we killed Elmira today - it was never a game whooooohooooooo it was 25 before you know it blah blah blah.  Are you that bad that you are celebrating beating a team with 10 wins?

SAD!  Dude, very SAD!

Oh and one more thing, I wasn't at the game yesterday so eat that too.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 18, 2006, 11:35:07 PM
Superman -- Fisher is better than RIT.  I didn't expect anything other than a Cardinal victory.  That being said, the Tigers played a decent game.  Especially Snyder.  The only reason Snyder scored "most" of his points while Bennett was out of the game was because Snyder drew fouls on Bennett while Bennett was in the game.  Before the 16 minute mark of the first half Snyder had 5 points and Bennett had two fouls.  Bennett never played another minute in the first half.  It continued in the second half.  Did he even see more than 8 or 9 minutes of playing time?

Look, I like Bennett.  He plays hard and he's a good defender.  Snyder just had the better of him today, despite the fact that Fisher won the game (which they should have).  RIT is a perimeter team, but Fisher is a better peremiter team (and they have a nice inside presence with McSweeney and Beigel).  It's a bad matchup for the Tigers.

Tim Bacon had a really nice game against McSweeney, by the way, who really needed help against him.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 19, 2006, 12:36:22 AM
Bamm you are right, Bennet got into foul trouble early and often today and played just 10 minutes.  Fisher had a great perimiter game especially in the second half shooting a blistering 73% from the floor in the second half.  It was a good game with good energy from RIT especially in the first half.   Fisher finished strong with 20+ points for Biegel, Obrien and Mcgee.  I also think Smalt is coming along nicely late in the season and gave Fisher some quality minutes.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 19, 2006, 08:49:06 AM
You know - Clear with the wind and snow I expected to hear your smack but I didn't expect you to side with Madhawk.
God- get out of the dorm and go to Champs or some other place and get some fresh air!  I think your mind is getting fried being stuck inside!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 19, 2006, 11:21:20 AM
Look Madhawk says dumb things I agree, but he isn't attacking other people.  So he loves his school's team - I get that.  And the fact is they are improved and 3 or 4 freshman that may end but all league guys down the road.  So more power to him.
GB just makes stupid personal remarks about me and Utica.  The fact remains he said the most stupid thing on the board a few months ago about Hartwick neber getting to 4 wins.... that is his fault.  He should lie in the bed that he made.

Those are the facts.
And the other fact is Ithaca stinks.  They are a 500 team period!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 19, 2006, 11:40:11 AM
Clear-
No doubt that Hawk loves his team--literally!
It's kinda creepy.
Enjoy the sun and below zero windchill!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on February 19, 2006, 04:34:11 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 18, 2006, 11:35:07 PMSnyder just had the better of him today, despite the fact that Fisher won the game (which they should have).

Bennett had a horrible weekend, after getting lit up by Canori Friday night, then Snyder basically being a PITA yesterday. He's the top defender on Fisher and one of the best (if not the best) in the E8, he'll get over it, hopefully before the tourney :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 19, 2006, 04:38:43 PM
Clear have you been sniffing the glue again.  Madhawk doesn't deserve to post, at least GB15 makes some senisible posts.  Madhawk just posts about how great a bad team is.  The only teams they have beaten are teams that they should beat.  GB15 said in the begining of the year  that they could win 4 games because both Naz and Elmira are beatable other than that no big wins for Wick.  He makes this board a worse place for being here.  Even you sometimes makes a good post.  But to defend hawk is a stupid thing and I thought that a Utica education taught you more than to defend a moron.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 19, 2006, 05:41:34 PM
Umm, Clear...should you really be talking to anybody about "quality wins". Outside of one game against a Hamilton team that did not have three of its better players (I believe they were starters) who have you beat.

The way I see it, against teams that could be considered "quality" (Hamilton, Fisher, Union(maybe), Oswego) you are 1-4.

I wouldn't go knockin Ithaca for not having quality wins. Show me Utica's marquee win against a solid team other than Hamilton. Wins against teams like SUNY IT, RIT, and Hobart don't really give you the right to go baggin on GB15, or anyone for that matter.

Have fun in ECAC's man...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 19, 2006, 06:46:11 PM
Wow, further proof that I own Clear, I apparently really got under his skin. I'll respond to Clear's posts one at a time:

Quote from: clearconceit on February 18, 2006, 10:54:52 PM
My only hope is that we get to play Ithaca next week so I can have the satisfaction of beating up on them for the 3rd time. GB15 you crack me up.

Wait, "we get to play Ithaca." How many points have you scored in either game against the Bombers? How did you "beat up" on Ithaca in this second game? Do you think we don't have access to box scores, Clear? If you look at the stats, Ithaca led for more than 60% of that game. Utica made one run that put them over the top. I'm sure Ithaca would MUCH RATHER be playing Utica in the 1st round than Fisher. Am I wrong about that too, Clear? And you talk about Ithaca only beating 'Wick because Cocozziello was out, what about Utica beating Ithaca without Burton on Friday night? You conveniently left that out of your gifted analysis.

So if you do beat Ithaca in the E8 tournament and then, inevitably, get steamrolled by Fisher for a third time this year, what are you going to do then? Idiot.

Quote from: clearconceit on February 18, 2006, 10:54:52 PM
GB15 you crack me up. You talk smack about your team and you are a pathetic 12-12. Are you kidding me? 12-12!

Alright, tough guy, you show me one place where I talk about how "great" Ithaca is. C'mon, show me one quote. I'll give you 24 hours to prove that I've made one comment about how "great" Ithaca is, after that, I will post FIVE quotes that I've made that talk about how slightly above average the Bombers are and that there only goal was to make the E8 tournament. It's unfortunate everyone else in here actually knows my take about my own team.

Sorry if we play quality teams outside the E8. I mean, I know SUNYIT is awesome and everything, being in the middle of the pack in the SUNYAC's, but why don't the Pioneers step up and go to Virginia for some early-season tournaments? Because they can't hack it, that's why.

Quote from: clearconceit on February 18, 2006, 10:54:52 PM

First you are a coward for not taking responsibility for your stupid posts. You stated if Hartwick had 4 wins you'd never post again. Too bad for the rest of us as they got to 4 wins and you are still posting. Be a man of honor and leave.
Second you are a bully for talking crap about beating up on Hartwick (who by the way couldn't beat anyone without Cocozziello - and he didn't play today obviously) like that is a big deal.

Actually, moron, they played most of the Elmira game without Cocozziello and won that. Another stupid, and incorrect comment, by Clear. I love how you say "too bad for the rest of us" that I won't leave. I'd say 95% of the posters in this room would much rather have you off these boards than me. Unlike you, I don't beat my chest when my squad is winning games and then run and hide like a little girl when my team is getting beat (aka whenever they play a good team). Nor do I run my mouth 1/10th as much as you do about how good my team is.

And how did I make Ithaca beating Hartwick sound great. In fact, this is my first post since that game even ended. C'mon, even if Wick had Cocozziello it wouldn't have been close. Ithaca was also missing Burton in that game. Ithaca's starters got taken out with 8 minutes to go when they were up 26 points. I don't think ANY player in the E8 would have made a difference in that game if they were playing for Hartwick, including your boyfriend, Ray Bryant.
Quote from: clearconceit on February 18, 2006, 10:54:52 PM

GET A CLUE. I supose it will be groundbreaking next Tuesday when you kill Elmira? Your team stinks - check your record versus teams with winning records. It is PATHETIC!!! Where are your QUALITY WINS?

Go back to law school and learn about LIFE dude. GET A CLUE.


First, see Superman's post about Utica playing against winning teams. Hey, don't feel inadequate just because your marquee win was against a team missing its top three players and you get trounced pretty much each time you play a decent time. It's ok, Clear, you can vent to us. Tell us how much it bothers you. We're here for ya, bud.

And let's evaluate who has a life. You live in Utica, NY. I live in a city where 80% of it's population was drunk by 5pm on both Saturday and Sunday this wee because it's almost Mardi Gras, it's 70 degrees pretty much every day, and a city whose claim to fame is something more than once being the AHL affiliate of the New Jersey Devils. Life 10, Clear 0.

Quote from: clearconceit on February 18, 2006, 10:54:52 PM


Oh I forget I should be like GB...... Yeah we killed Elmira today - it was never a game whooooohooooooo it was 25 before you know it blah blah blah. Are you that bad that you are celebrating beating a team with 10 wins?

SAD! Dude, very SAD!

Uhhhhh, Clear, don't you realize we're making fun of you when we say that stuff? You know, how you always come in here and talk about how your 10-point wins over teams "weren't as close as they looked" despite the box score saying Utica was only up 4 points with 5 minutes remaining. I think you're the one who needs to get a clue.

I really cannot wait until next Sunday night when Clear comes in here and gives the fake "good game Fisher, we were as talented as you but we couldn't get it done" post. What you should say is "Fisher, you own us, we were as never as good as you this year and I know you were never scared of us like I continually said during the season; I was just trying to convince myself we could beat you when I knew it would never happen." I'm pumped.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 19, 2006, 07:04:42 PM
Here here GB15...how about instead of having gb15 leave we take a vote to kick clear out of here...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 19, 2006, 08:13:27 PM
Wow...just wow.

Clear, you just got owned, or as Col would say...

GB15 = B2K

Clear = served
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on February 19, 2006, 08:20:30 PM
Clear = Idiot
GB = Intelligent

GB I really do enjoy your posts. Like thoroughly enjoy reading them. They are very well thought out, well put together and obviously intelligent. That being said, I do not feel that you should go unscathed with the whole madhawk incident. Now Madhawk is a bigger douchebag than clear, but you did lower yourself into a war of words with him GB, and in my opinion you have to eat your words in some form or another. Now why I think being banished from posting for life is a little too extreme (even that is what you said bro) I feel like something has to happen to bring that whole argument some closure....All that being said I dont think Hartwick will win more than 5 games in the Empire 8 in the next 3 years, and I will state my posting life on it. I dont care who they have, Fisher will reload, RIT and Utica will always be better because they have better coaches, and they will not consistently beat Alfred Naz Ithaca and Elmira on the road. I just dont see it happening. I know they have some nice young players, but think about it....how many times does it happen that Division 3 (and for some reason specifically Empire 8) players top out when they are freshmen and sophomores. It happens year in and year out whether it be the college life, girlfriend or whatever.....at the D3 level guys can be studs as young players and flatten out as they become upperclassmen. So this whole wait until all these young kids get older idea is not working for me. Just look at Nazareths super sophomore class that just produced an 8-17 record.....

Reggie lives.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 19, 2006, 08:28:01 PM
I feel that the punishment for GB15 should just be to have the Hartwick logo as his icon for one month.  Other than that, Clear you are know offically GB15's bitch
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on February 19, 2006, 11:43:07 PM
lol....you're such a big talker Steve........

But you're right.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on February 19, 2006, 11:48:11 PM
GB15 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clear.

How's that for a 100th post?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 20, 2006, 07:43:27 AM
Wow!
GB-chin chin!
Clear- you had your chance-
Now let the games begin!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2006, 10:16:08 AM
"Wait, "we get to play Ithaca." How many points have you scored in either game against the Bombers? How did you "beat up" on Ithaca in this second game? Do you think we don't have access to box scores, Clear? If you look at the stats, Ithaca led for more than 60% of that game. Utica made one run that put them over the top. "


Unfortunately for Ithaca, that one run lasted 25 minutes, and there was no looking back. You seem to have some sour grapes man.

To be fair, you were wrong on nearly every thing you have been "Arguing" with Clear about.

Ray Bryant's performance against Ithaca can only be described as total domination. He dropped 27, and was by far the best player on the court again. I havnt checked yet, but I wouldnt be surprised if he is once again player of the week.

You claimed he didnt show up for big games, especially those on the road. He did.

You claimed Utica cant win on the road. They did.

You claimed Utica cant win at Ithaca. They did.

I know clear sometimes presents his stuff with some extra passion, but his underlying message is quite often accurate.


"but why don't the Pioneers step up and go to Virginia for some early-season tournaments? Because they can't hack it, that's why."

And you can? Kind of faulty logic since Ithaca is 0-2 against Utica this year. It's a money issue. Us "ghetto" folk don't have the funds to take a lot of these trips. But as we learned this weekend, money doesnt make you a better team.


"Unlike you, I don't beat my chest when my squad is winning games and then run and hide like a little girl when my team is getting beat (aka whenever they play a good team"

You mean like a few pages back when you were talking smack as you listened on the radio to Ithaca with a lead, and instantly changed your tune to whining about "Utica fans" when Utica Dominated the last 25 minutes? You even went to making excuses "what about Utica beating Ithaca without Burton on Friday night? ". Did you forget to mention that Utica's starting center, and only true 5 man on the team did not play against Ithaca?




"First, see Superman's post about Utica playing against winning teams. "

We'd have 2 more quality wins if Ithaca was any good. I find it funny that you mention Hobart as one of our lambs, when they beat you. We beat oneonta soundly, Ithaca survived against them. How heated was that Green Mountain game you guys had? Did they have gas station coffee cups on their jersey? Speaking of middle of the road SUNYAC teams, Potsdam made Ithaca look like a JV team.

Schedule is not the reason for Ithaca's or Utica's record. Talent is.


"You live in Utica, NY. I live in a city where 80% of it's population was drunk by 5pm on both Saturday and Sunday this wee because it's almost Mardi Gras, it's 70 degrees pretty much every day, and a city whose claim to fame is something more than once being the AHL affiliate of the New Jersey Devils. "

This is the second time in 3 days you have insulted people in Utica in a pathetic and childish way. You dont see Utica fans on here talking about the Ithacaites walking around in Beret's, driving daddys car, drinking starbucks and pretending like anyone cares about them until they finally jump into the gourge because nobody understands how hard they have it in Ithaca.

By the way, you were dead wrong, and exaggerating in your Utica fans comment. First off, it happened maybe 3 times the entire game after a play made an Ithaca player or 2 look silly. Most of the people cheering for Utica there were either families of players, or the Ithaca football recruits who noticed Utica was much more fun to watch. "Normal fans" dont just sit there and clap. Bored fans do. A little bit of excitement from the fans might have made a decent Ithaca team that much better this year.


"I really cannot wait until next Sunday night when Clear comes in here and gives the fake "good game Fisher,"

At least you have conceeded that Ithaca will not be in the championship game. Kudos. See the fan comment above.




















Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 20, 2006, 10:25:56 AM
Wow again.
As a native of New Hartford, the slaps on Utica sting a little, but in the grand scheme of things I think his venom is placed directly at clear.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 20, 2006, 10:49:17 AM
maybe Utica fans need to stop taking their frustration out on people on this board and just deal with the fact that they are not as good as they thought/said they were...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 20, 2006, 11:10:54 AM
Don't you guys think Schultz and Dooley are a better claim to fame than being an AHL affiliate?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 20, 2006, 11:12:39 AM
Schultz and Dooley yes.
Matt's no.
Saranac yes.
Utica Club yes.

Saranac thursdays in the summer-YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 20, 2006, 11:17:21 AM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2006, 10:16:08 AM
... You dont see Utica fans on here talking about the Ithacaites walking around in Beret's, driving daddys car, drinking starbucks and pretending like anyone cares about them until they finally jump into the gourge because nobody understands how hard they have it in Ithaca.
....

Wow, I can tell things got heated on here but should we really be making fun of people that commit suicide?

Not for nothing, those kids all go to Cornell anyway.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 20, 2006, 11:22:50 AM
For the past couple pages, this board has been a vicious game of "Can you top this?" Wow and double wow.
I agree with fisheralum91 that the shots on Utica hurt, despite the fact that a lot of it is true.
Kudos to UCgrad45 for sticking up for his team...

By the way, GB15, not trying to defend clear, but when he says "we", you know he's talking about the team as opposed to himself. I used to play on the Utica College football team, so when I talk about them, I say (for example)... We lost to Ithaca 37-0 in 2005, even though I was not on the team last year.
Ya know what I'm sayin'?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 20, 2006, 11:30:24 AM
Budcrew-
Always remember there is no I in team!
:D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on February 20, 2006, 11:52:19 AM
Booyah!!!!!!!!!!

Contrary to popular belief I am not going to rant and rave about Hartwick's loss to Ithaca over the weekend.

Here is a teaser of my post season wrap up:

I am going to rant and rave about the success the Hawks have had this season. Winning 10 games (maybe 11) is a HUGE step forward for the Hartwick Men's Basketball program. I think it is safe to say that the Hawks are one of the most improved D3 teams in the nation. What makes this rapid improvement all the more sweeter is the relative age and experience of the Hawks on the roster. The majority of the roster spots went to freshmen or new transfer students. There is no doubt in my mind that Hartwick's has had the best freshmen in the league this year. This statement is supported by the shear number of rookie of the week canidates that have been awarded to the Hawks. As the pendulum swings back toward the Hawks favor, I expect Hartwick to be a very strong empire 8 power in the coming years.

More later...Expect an elaborate Hartwick post season wrap up by the end of this week.

Ciao for now!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 20, 2006, 12:57:01 PM
Moving on...

anyone have predictions on this weekends E8 tourny, anyone think that Fisher will not win? What does everyone think will happen if Fisher gets upset on friday and saturday?
What are the chances of Fisher getting an at large bid if they do lose a game?

Just wondering what everyone thinks. I think the E8 tourny is a much better topic than recent conversations.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 20, 2006, 01:05:42 PM
What, I think the degragation of Utica and Ithaca is exactly what I like to hear.

But I say that Fisher wins the tourny because Naz is not playing. but if they do lose they will most likely get an atlarge bid because of the expansion in the tourny
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 20, 2006, 01:20:22 PM
I will hope beyond hope that Utica can somehow beat Fisher in Rochester because then two teams from the Empire 8 could get into the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 20, 2006, 01:20:53 PM
Superman-
Me thinks the word is degradation.
Anyway let's poke fun at teams.
I'm a proud Card alum but still the career and the fam are here in Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 20, 2006, 02:16:09 PM
Oh, the classic tactic employed by UCgrad is none other than the famous "when you're wrong, just change and twist the other person's arguments until it makes you right." Good trick, but unfortunately it's not going to work UCgrad. I'm really getting tired of putting you three in the corner for saying stupid things, so hopefully this will the last time:

Clear/UCgrad interpretation of my argument: Utica can't beat Ithaca in Ithaca.
GB15's actual argument: Utica, in the past, has not played well at Ithaca.

Learn the definitions of "have not" and "cannot," guys. There's a pretty implicit difference.

Clear/UC grad interpretation: GB15 thinks Ithaca is great!
GB15's actual argument: Do I even have to say it again or were the previous 50 times enough. Just in case, all I ever said was IC's only goal was to make the E8 tourney and hope to pull an upset or two. Mission accomplished.

GB15 2, Utica kids 0

Clear/UCgrad interpretation: Ray Bryant doesn't show up on the road.
GB15's actual argument: Show me one place where I said that. You'll be looking for awhile. What I did say was that he didn't show up the two times he played Fisher. Truth. Book it.

Clear/UC grad interpretation: GB15 said Utica can't win on the road.
GB15's actual argument: Utica doesn't win big games on the road.

Hmmm, Oswego? Fisher? RIT? Who's right on that one and who's wrong? And does anyone else notice the inherent contradiction in Clear and UCgrad's rationale. First, they say Ithaca sucks or they're mediocre. Then they go on to cite UC's victory at Ithaca as an example of Utica winning a big game on the road. What is it guys? Does Ithaca suck? Are they mediocre? Are they good enough for Utica to call that a "big win" on the road? Pick one and stick with it. You can't just pick the one that's convenient for your argument at the time.

By the way, UCgrad, way to cite suicide of Ivy League students. That's class. I look forward to your next post ripping on cancer patients and people with Alzheimer's.

How is IC going 0-2 in VA an example of faulty logic. Think about this for a second. What, this season, would mean more to an Ithaca? An extra win or two against a cupcake team from the region or going to Virginia to play quality teams with the talent levels of teams they'll have to beat to pull the upsets to get in the NCAA's? In other words, what means more: getting that experience or being 13-11 instead of 12-12? IC isn't getting an at-large anyways so that's the EXACT thing they should have done.

I talked smack about the Ithaca/Utica game?? I posted when Ithaca was up like four points, how is that talking smack? Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, right Clear?

Regarding the Green Mountain game, if you listened to what both CazBombers and I said, there was no reason Ithaca should have them on the schedule. They're a new program that is doing all it can to get decent-sized programs on it's schedule. They've also played the Plattsburgh's of the world. Also, never did I mention Hobart as one of your "lambs." They're in the top 3 in the LL for god sakes. They're not good, but they're not horrid.

Your comment about Ray Bryant being "by far" the best player on the court the other night is a joke. Two of my buddies said he scored 8 of his points in the last 2 minutes from the line when Ithaca was fouling. Not to be petty, but they said Bellis definitely got the better of him on that night. Surely you two well never admit such blasphemy, but it sounds like it was true. So I'm not sure what game you were watching there.

I will STILL claim Utica can't win on the road in Rochester this weekend (which was my argument the entire year) after they don't win in the E8 tourney. So I was right about that, friend. You guys kept saying "oh, Utica is different this year, they'll get it done in Rochester." Annnnnd you proceeded to lose both games against the two good Rochester teams. Again, who was right about that?

I'm so pumped for next Monday when your season is over and you guys have to eat Crow for what you've been saying all year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 20, 2006, 02:28:16 PM
Whew,
GB- point, counterpoint.
I felt like I was watching a boxing match, and the other guy had his arms tied behind his back!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 20, 2006, 03:56:02 PM
Fisher guys -- No need to sweat, the Cardinals are one of the virtual locks for a Pool C bid if they don't win the tourney this weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 20, 2006, 03:57:55 PM
Not sure if Utica making the tourny and getting beat in the first round is a great thing for the conference.

I would love to see the Empire 8 send 2 teams, and become a well established power conference, but for now, it is what it is.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 20, 2006, 04:01:41 PM
In all honesty-
I don't see UC losing in the 1st round.
That being said- if UC dosn't win the tourney- hello ECAC's
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 20, 2006, 04:10:33 PM
Back to basketball. One of the things that excites me most is Utica is riding a nice little four game winning streak, which surely means Clear is patting himself on the back more than usual. Here's how I'd break down the two games this weekend.

RIT at Fisher

The Tigers would be much better off playing Utica or Ithaca, and not solely for the obvious reason that those teams aren't Fisher. Unfortunately, as has been mentioned, Fisher loves to play RIT's style of the game and does so better than the Tigers. RIT literally has two choices: play their own style and get beat by a team who plays that same style almost perfectly or do something they're not accustomed to doing, which is always a bad idea at this point in the season.

It's like when I see the Nuggets playing the Suns in the NBA. Denver's style is run-and-gun, but unfortunately for them, that's exactly how Phoenix plays. Also, the Suns do it better than the Nuggets. You can win A LOT of money betting on Phoenix each time those two teams play. Not that I've ever done that or anything.

The way to beat Fisher this year seems to be turning the game into an ugly, knockdown dragout type of game. The first Naz game sounded it like it was sloppy and the Flyers won. Ditto for the second game but there was a different result (it sounded due to the fact that Naz players were missing chippies, but I'm just basing that on what other posters have said). The Fisher/R-MC game also sounded very tight, physical and "ugly" sort of game. RIT will want to use their finesse and outside shooting to win; that's what they excel at. However, if they want to win this one they're going to have to be unconscious from the outside, get good production from Bacon and hope Fisher is off from the perimeter.

My initial line: Fisher -15.5

Ithaca v Utica

Let's just negate the whole Bellis vs Bryant thing for now because those two are likely going to negate each other. The question will be can Ithaca avoid the long draughts that plagued them in the first two meeting between the teams. If they can, they have a good chance at pulling the upset. If not, it will likely be the end of their season.

Bryant will get his, but the key for Ithaca is to contain Lucas and Cichon. Those were the two players that seemed to do them in last Friday night. Basically, I think the game comes down to which trio wins the matchup: Bryant/Cichon/Lucas vs Bellis/Andruskiewicz/whoever is that day's 3rd option.

Early line: Utica -4.5.

Prop Bets

Assuming a Utica/Fisher final, Utica fans wet themselves prior to the game: 6-1

Utica fans make an excuse after losing to Fisher: 7-6

The excuse involves a referee: 1-5

Prior to the game, Utica fans say such obviously made-up things like "I have a friend on Fisher and they fear us the most despite the fact they have beaten us 11 out of the last 12.": 1-100 (not smart to bet against that happening)

Clear and UCgrad dressing like Batman and Robin that just got beat up in the bathroom and were given swirlies: 2-1
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 20, 2006, 04:13:22 PM
GB-
You have me literally laughing in my office!
:D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2006, 04:33:06 PM
"Oh, the classic tactic employed by UCgrad is none other than the famous "when you're wrong, just change and twist the other person's arguments until it makes you right." "

Hilarious considering your entire post is nothing but your interpretation of what others said, or in other words, doing exactly what you are complaining about.



"Clear/UC grad interpretation: GB15 thinks Ithaca is great!"

To qoute you: Show me where I said that. Dont you ever get sick of being a hypocrite?


"GB15's actual argument: Utica doesn't win big games on the road.

Hmmm, Oswego? Fisher? RIT? Who's right on that one and who's wrong? And does anyone else notice the inherent contradiction in Clear and UCgrad's rationale. First, they say Ithaca sucks or they're mediocre. Then they go on to cite UC's victory at Ithaca as an example of Utica winning a big game on the road. "

Clinching the 2 or 3 seed on the road is a big game, no matter how bad the team you beat really is.

"Are they mediocre? "

Perhaps you missed where I told you they were a decent team.

"By the way, UCgrad, way to cite suicide of Ivy League students. That's class. I look forward to your next post ripping on cancer patients and people with Alzheimer's. "

Must be the "Ghetto" in me. There is a huge difference between saying that you dont see Utica fans saying things like that, which you dont, and actually picking on those who do. Seeing that my life has been affected more than you could ever imagine because of the Suicide of a former Utica College basketball center, I'd say that its safe to say that I most certainly did not poke fun at it. Talk about twisting words.

I also find it funny that you took shots at Utica fans and citizens without even being at the game. You talked garbage about them, when many of the people you talked about are about to be Ithaca college football players.


"How is IC going 0-2 in VA an example of faulty logic. Think about this for a second. What, this season, would mean more to an Ithaca? An extra win or two against a cupcake team from the region or going to Virginia to play quality teams with the talent levels of teams they'll have to beat to pull the upsets to get in the NCAA's? In other words, what means more: getting that experience or being 13-11 instead of 12-12? IC isn't getting an at-large anyways so that's the EXACT thing they should have done. "

Never said they shouldnt. This post had nothing to do with the point I made, and in no way contradicted it. Not really sure why you even included this paragraph.

"Also, never did I mention Hobart as one of your "lambs." "

It was someone else, I apologize.

"Your comment about Ray Bryant being "by far" the best player on the court the other night is a joke. Two of my buddies said he scored 8 of his points in the last 2 minutes from the line when Ithaca was fouling. Not to be petty, but they said Bellis definitely got the better of him on that night. Surely you two well never admit such blasphemy, but it sounds like it was true. So I'm not sure what game you were watching there."


Yeah, scoring less points and not winning was getting the best. Never mind that he was superior in nearly every other category as well. And he did get 8 points from the line there, and went 12 for 12 from the line, but they werent intentional fouls. They fouled him when he burnt them for an easy lay up. I see it is very hard for you to admit that he is the best player in the conference, but heh as been player of the week more than anybody.

"I will STILL claim Utica can't win on the road in Rochester this weekend (which was my argument the entire year) after they don't win in the E8 tourney. "

They just made the team that beat Fisher and nearly did again look like a junior high team. They are playing good ball right now, and Fisher will not have an easy night against RIT like they did against Ithaca in years past. Like the year that Utica was nowhere near as good as they are now and only lost by 3 in the final game. Say what you want, but Fisher players know that Utica can beat them.



Overall, you seem level headed. Until, of course, things dont go your way. Then you talk smack to everyone and try to play the victim while being extremely hypocritical.











Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 20, 2006, 04:44:17 PM
Fisher remains at 16th going into the E8 tourney.
Not too bad, just want them to put the hammer down come crunch time!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 20, 2006, 05:00:18 PM
Go Ray!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 20, 2006, 05:00:57 PM
I don't think beating Naz and making them look like a junior high team is something to hang your hat on UC Grad. Everyone but Fisher beats up on them.

Seems like Naz can give Fisher a great game but they just can't bring anything close to that intensity vs. any other team.

I'll still be interested to see how this weekend plays out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2006, 05:01:50 PM
"Clear and UCgrad dressing like Batman and Robin that just got beat up in the bathroom and were given swirlies: 2-1 "

What's funny is that the guy with the cape has been gone for 2 years, but the guy dressed in the team australia rugby outfit, with speedo's and foam finger, along with the guy dressed as Al Capone are still in the Ithaca stands. Although they are there for attention and know little about basketball, I guess that means Ithaca fans are "ghetto".
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2006, 05:09:34 PM
"Clear/UCgrad interpretation of my argument: Utica can't beat Ithaca in Ithaca.
GB15's actual argument: Utica, in the past, has not played well at Ithaca."

Wouldn't want to be one to actually bring up what you said, however:

"not upset about the "drubbing" Ithaca received at Utica. Doesn't that happen every year followed by Ithaca beating Utica in the Bulb? That's pretty much set in stone, isn't it?"

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 20, 2006, 05:21:50 PM
"Fisher players know that Utica can beat them"...UCgrad45

well I suppose that is true since any team that they play could beat them...I personally know some players on the Fisher team and they all feel the same way. Although, they respect every team in the E8, and take all of the teams they play seriously, they all feel that if they play well, no one in the E8 can beat them...I know they take Utica seriously as a possible upset game, but I think they all know that they can/should handle them.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 20, 2006, 05:26:11 PM
Let's just get on with it!

I hope for  UC/SJF final.

Fisher by 5 in that one BTW.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 20, 2006, 05:40:32 PM
I'd obviously love to reply to every retort that comes my way, but unfortunately school is not conducive to that. I've said my piece, the people whose opinions I value know my takes on various subjects. However, I find it necessary to respond when people pretty much change something I say to fit their argument. That's all.

I think you'd have a hard time saying I have a difficult time admitting Ray Bryant is the best player in the conference when I said he'd likely win E8 POY. Did you miss those posts a few pages back? That said, I DON'T think he's the best player in the league. He's right up there, but I'd take O'Brien over any player in this league. I think a lot of posters would.

I am level-headed even when things aren't going my way. Look at the most obvious situation: I could have completely bailed on Tulane and New Orleans after what happened and after the way the administration handled the situation and the students (horribly is a nice word for it). But I'm back. I think that's a better example of how people "handle things" in life than any wins or losses in a D3 game. Even so, Ithaca has been a mediocre, .500 team for the last three seasons. I pretty much knew they were going to be the same coming into this year. It's hard to be upset when your expectations are met. Going into the E8 tourney, I had them being at 14-11 at the beginning of the season. They're going to be 13-12. Not too far off.

Anyways, to move on from this whole ordeal, I agree with the Bird Man; if Fisher plays their game, they'll win this tourney. That's not a shot against any other team, but I think it's been proven that you have to be playing your best to even have a shot at them, and even then it's not a guarantee.

Predictions for tomorrow:

Ithaca 78 Elmira 54 (not gloating, just predicting)

Utica 76 Hartwick 57 (likely no Cocozziello)

Tune-ups.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 21, 2006, 10:25:10 AM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2006, 04:33:06 PM
Must be the "Ghetto" in me. There is a huge difference between saying that you dont see Utica fans saying things like that, which you dont, and actually picking on those who do. Seeing that my life has been affected more than you could ever imagine because of the Suicide of a former Utica College basketball center, I'd say that its safe to say that I most certainly did not poke fun at it. Talk about twisting words.

UCGrad,
What Utica College player are you talking about? I am pretty in with UC athletics, so I think I would have heard something if it happened recently. If you don't want to post it on here, please PM me... I wondered if I may know the person if it was a recent UC student (within the last 5 years.)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 21, 2006, 11:01:43 AM
MadHawk are u going to be there tonight?  Let me know if you will be there.  I will be in the front row cheering on the boys!

  GB says anything and all of his cronies jump on like he is ome sort of geniuos.  It's like a juvenile board where he can fart and all the 3rd graders thinks its really funny.
Get a grip on life brother. 
You are going to be a great lawyer because you twist the facts with your words.

Great job!  By the way it is good to see that you are happy with a middle of the road program.  Atleast you can't be disappointed with mediocrity.  And (MadHawk you'll love this one, did you know that Hartwick's last league win was 2 years ago against yep you guessed it, PATHETIC ITHACA.

And I have some very dear friends from Ithaca and would never be so immature to attack a town.  That is assinine.

And last, yes I think we can beat Fisher and that is the goal.  If we don't do it, it will be a disappointment.  I guess that is the difference between us.  Your program is mediocre and our's is rising far above mediocrity.

Go Pioneers!

And please may we play Ithaca again to beat them silly for the 3rd time.  And by the way dumbass, basketball is a game of runs and that little run you are talking about was the game.  How much basketball have you watched in your lifetime?  RUNS are a big part of the game my man - wake up.

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 21, 2006, 11:06:30 AM
Quote from: clearconceit on February 21, 2006, 11:01:43 AM
GB says anything and all of his cronies jump on like he is ome sort of geniuos.  It's like a juvenile board where he can fart and all the 3rd graders thinks its really funny.


Come on clear, everybody knows that farts are ALWAYS funny.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 21, 2006, 01:13:49 PM
My housemate says they aren't funny when he's eating, but I still seem to laugh each time.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 21, 2006, 02:48:34 PM
ok so to change the pace.  This is my Fisher Index.  I am going to rank every team with what I have seen.  Meaning when they played fisher.  please tear it apart and comment

1)Fisher
2)Naz-Always a close game, if they played every game this way they would be in the E8 tourny and a threat.
3)Alfred-Same as Naz always plays fisher close works hard and is very athletic
4)Ithaca-the next 3 could all be interchangeable all 3 looked similar to each other in there games against fisher
5)Utica
6)RIT
7)Elmira
8)Hartwick
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 21, 2006, 02:53:04 PM
Fisher
Utica
RIT
Ithaca
Hartwick
Naz
Alfred
Elmira

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 21, 2006, 02:59:51 PM
Fisher
Utica
RIT
Ithaca
Alfred
Naz
Hartwick
Elmira
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 21, 2006, 03:20:39 PM
First off, can I get an interpreter to explain to me what Clear just wrote earlier. Whatever it was, it surely isn't English. Who said I was happy with a "mediocre" program? Do you not see where I imply that Mullins should be fired, oh, every single week? I've said on a number of occasions, considering Ithaca has BY FAR the best athletics program in this conference(when thinking about the difference between UC's and IC's athletic programs think about the difference between ordering a hamburger or a filet in a restaurant) and one of the tops in D3, there is no reason that one of its marquee sports should be this consistently average. Not when so many of its teams are consistently in the top 25 in almost every sport, year-in and year-out, and when its women's counterpart has dominated this conference for so long (by "so long," I mean since I got to school in 2000), with the exception of this season's rebuilding year.

By the way, Clear, way to reference a basketball game that happened over two years ago to support your point. If you beat Ithaca by six points again like you did Friday night, are you gonna claim that you "beat them silly?"

Anyways, as much as I like to destroy Clear, I'm not sure how people can rank RIT ahead of Ithaca considering the Bombers swept them. Ithaca dominated them in The Bulb then used a big second half run to beat the Tigers at Clark. Also, I know Fisher/Naz is a rivalry, but I'm not sure how Superman can rank a team 2nd (as he did with Naz) that got swept by Hartwick of all teams. If anything, doesn't that basically relegate you automatically to the bottom half of the league. I think it stacks up exactly how it finished, 14 games is enough of a sample:

Fisher
Utica
Ithaca
RIT
Alfred
Naz
Hartwick
Elmira
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 21, 2006, 03:33:49 PM
I think Superman was simply ranking teams according to how they played in games he saw, AKA: against Fisher.  So that explains his wacky list.  I agree with you GB15 that it doesn't make sense to rank the teams in any order but how they stack up in the standings after 14 games.  However, just want to clear up something about RIT/Ithaca @ the Bulb.  The final score was very one-sided, but that's because (your friend Caz Bombers cleared this up for me) RIT lost their lead with about 10 minutes left and never scored another field goal.  I think the score of their game @RIT is a much more accurate reflection of how those teams compare.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 21, 2006, 03:56:19 PM
You're probably right. In no way am I saying Ithaca is better than RIT by double-digits. If they played 10 times I bet the difference would probably be single-digits 8 or 9 of those times.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 21, 2006, 04:21:26 PM
Despite Ithaca beating RIT twice (nice wins) I think RIT should be a better team. (Do have a better record)  I'm biased and I think they're better.  However, a simple list is no way to rank teams.  I am immature and basically just a little child, so this is how I think the league stacks up...

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 21, 2006, 05:11:50 PM
I agree with FisherAlum's rankings. Hartwick is definitely worthy of a 7th place ranking, seeing as they beat Elmira both times they played. That being said, the hawks are definitely not to be ranked ahead of Alfred, which beat Hartwick both times this season. Saw IC play and they are about fourth, while Fisher, Utica and RIT should be the top three. As for Alfred and Naz, does it really matter. Yeah Naz beat Fisher, but neither team seemed to play up to their talents this season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 21, 2006, 05:38:41 PM
If you look at what I wrote before the post it was basing off how the teams played against fisher, which is the only time I have seen all the teams play
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 21, 2006, 06:12:37 PM
I understand what you were saying superman, I was merely giving my opinion of how others ranked the teams. I certainly didn't mean any ill will toward you.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 21, 2006, 07:04:06 PM
Brilliant ranking system col...simply awesome
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 21, 2006, 10:47:31 PM
Quote from: col on February 21, 2006, 04:21:26 PM
[li]Alfred - Swedish Fish: Great candy when fresh, like friday night, but there are too many issues.  Gets stale too easily or will bind together if left above room temperature.[/li]

DESCRIPTION OF SNACK: Small Red Cherry-Flavored Gummi Fish.
SNACK LOOKS LIKE: Red fish bait.
SSI RATING (SNACK SATISFACTION INDEX - 1-10): 7
UPSIDE:
Classic snack. Sweet, chewy, fun to play with while eating (pull 'em, stretch 'em, smoosh 'em). Can be eaten 1 at a time or in multiple stacks on top of each other. The sky's the limit. Can also be used as a car finish (see last 4 ingredients).
DOWNSIDE:
Temporarily stick to your teeth. Jaw is tired when finished with bag (they're a workout).

1ST 4 INGREDIENTS:
Sugar
Corn Syrup
Modified Corn Starch
Artificial Flavors

LAST 4 INGREDIENTS:
Artificial Flavors
Mineral Oil
Carnuba Wax
Colored with FD&C Red #40

PACKAGING:
Yellow background, red type, blue splash graphics.

DO I RECOMMEND YOU TRY THIS YOURSELF? (YES/NO - EXPLAIN):
Yes, but watch out for your fillings.

WHICH SOUTH PARK CHARACTER WOULD LIKE IT BEST?:
Mrs. Cartman. It exercises her jaw. Nuff said.

HOW CAN THE PRODUCT BE IMPROVED:
Any suggestions?______________________________



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 21, 2006, 11:22:04 PM
New Manufactuer (ie get a new coach) and you should be just fine

and I would say that I like the meat refernce better
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 21, 2006, 11:35:15 PM
the meat reference was very nice, but I kind of like the candy analogy...


Other than that, I checked out the Cortland/Buff state game tonight. I will say C-state is pretty good, but I would be interested to see how they play against a team that is well coached, or a team that shoots the ball well.

Buff State just kept letting Cortland drive and get easy layups, and I don't think I saw them take a 3 pointer until the last 10 minutes.

Would love to see a Fisher/Cortland NCAA game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 22, 2006, 12:13:23 AM
MadHawk missed you buddy but you didn't miss much of a game.  Great senior night, we are going to miss those guys.

Have to say that I hope Bryant wins POY, but perhaps Cocozziello is the most valuable player, the Hawks looked really bad without him tonight.

Funny thing occured tonight before the game, Hartwick's coach had a Utica shirt on as he spoke to Coach Goodemote moments before the game.  It was about the last time he laughed all night.

Looking forward to the weekend good luck to all! 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 22, 2006, 07:33:20 AM
Utica gets it's 20th win for the first time in school history, and Willie Lucas scores his 1,000th career point. Justin Cichon is now just 7 points shy of 1,500.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 22, 2006, 08:55:23 AM
Looking at everyone's rankings I can't help but notice that, with some minor variations, the league has looked almost exactly the same for the last 7-8 years.  It really seems to break into four groups.

1. Fisher/RIT: Generally the strongest rosters from 1-12.  Other teams have better players on occassions but never the depth.

2. Utica/IC/Naz:  Each of these teams had a club that was in the top group for at least a year.  But consistently in the middle of the pack.

3. Alfred: Had some great talent about 5 years ago (Downing/Docteur/guy that wore Cow Suit and heckled me) but unnoteworthy since. PS-Cow suit guy actually made me laugh, at myself, during a game.  He was the funniest heckler of all time.

4. Hartwick/Elmira: Sometimes move up to the Alfred group but, generally good for 2 wins for every other conference team.

I know there may be some disagreement on the board.  Perhaps some will think a team or two should be a spot higher or lower.  Aside from that, why does the league always break out this way? Is it recruiting?  coaching? (which I don't think has changed in that time period) or just general dedication to men's hoops in the respective athletic departments?

I have my own theories but I am curious to hear what you guys think first since I generally just follow IC.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 22, 2006, 09:42:19 AM
Does anyone know if/where people can listen to the E8 tournament at Fisher?
I don't know if Utica will have their team of play by play guys go, does Fisher have a Web site for a radio station that will have the Ithaca-Utica game on Friday?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 10:02:06 AM
Ithaca knocks off Elmira, 76-59. The Bombers closed the game on a 30-13 run to take it. Believe me, I was worried that it was 46-46 in the 2nd half until I realized the only starter that played regular minutes was Bellis (34 mins). Other than that, the IC starters played 26, 22, 19, and 12, respectively. Those are all below each player's averages. Good to see Dom Scanlon coming on strong over the last two games, as he led the Bombers with 18 and fellow reserve Sean Stahn chipped in 10.

Mullins rested Burton and the starters because they've already locked up the 3-seed and there was no reason to play them. The key to the Utica game will be for IC to get scoring from places it doesn't usually get it (Stahn, Scanlon). If they can, they have a good shot.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 22, 2006, 10:44:48 AM
Moving towards Friday's RIT/Fisher matchup, did you know that --

Over the last four seasons, RIT and Fisher have played 12 times (counting this Friday).

In that span, RIT has gone 69-38, but only 2-9 against Fisher (the only other E8 team with more than one win against them during that time is Naz (2) ). 

In that span, Mike McGee has taken approximately seven thousand wide open threes in games against RIT.

OK, obviously that last one is a joke.  But seriously, if RIT is to have any chance in this game someone is going to have to remember that McGee occasionally hits an open jumper.  It's not like he's been one of the best shooters in the league for the last few years or anything.  **sarcasm

Additionally, RIT will have to shoot extremely well (I think they have shot around 12 percent in Fisher's gym in the last few meetings).  Again, exaggeration, but that's what it's felt like. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 22, 2006, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: budcrew08 on February 22, 2006, 09:42:19 AM
Does anyone know if/where people can listen to the E8 tournament at Fisher?
I don't know if Utica will have their team of play by play guys go, does Fisher have a Web site for a radio station that will have the Ithaca-Utica game on Friday?

I know Ithaca's radio station is covering the IC-UC game.  I am sure there will be a link up on bombers.ithaca.edu
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 22, 2006, 11:01:07 AM
and wysl.com has the any game that fisher plays hogtied down
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 22, 2006, 01:38:56 PM
So - is it going to be broadcast?

In other develpoments from Utica- IT beat Potsdam- am I living in some weird twilight zone episode?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 22, 2006, 01:46:23 PM
in case any one was wondering they will be clearing the gym in between the tourny's. IE if you pay for the womens game you get two women's games, but not the mens
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 02:09:36 PM
Quote from: superman57 on February 22, 2006, 01:46:23 PM
in case any one was wondering they will be clearing the gym in between the tourny's. IE if you pay for the womens game you get two women's games, but not the mens

My understanding was that the women's semis are Friday night. The men's semis are Saturday afternoon at 12 and 2:20 (approx) with the women's final on Saturday night at 8pm, the gym being cleared between the two sessions. The men's final being Sunday afternoon.

That's what was on the IC website earlier this week.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 02:15:48 PM
My mistake, apparently the men are playing their semi-finals on Friday and the championship on Saturday night. The women play their semis on Saturday afternoon with the final Sunday afternoon.

I have to think this is a financially motivated move to put the women during the day with the men in prime-time. Not saying I necessarily disagree with it but I would never raise the topic before a feminist.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 22, 2006, 02:17:58 PM
It's all about the money!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 22, 2006, 02:35:28 PM
Women's Basketball

Friday

No. 4 Ithaca vs. No. 1 Fisher, 1:30 p.m.

No. 3 Utica vs. No. 2 Elmira, 3:30 p.m.



Men's Basketball

Friday

No. 4 R.I.T. vs. No. 1 Fisher, 6:30 p.m.

No. 3 Ithaca vs. No. 2 Utica, 8:30 p.m.



Saturday

Women's Championship – 4 p.m.

Men's Championship – 7 p.m.





Admission to each of Friday's doubleheaders, as well as each championship game, is $5 for adults and $3 for students with valid ID. 

The gym will be cleared after Friday's 3:30 game and after the women's championship game and a new ticket must be purchased for the men's games.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 22, 2006, 02:48:13 PM
Fisher didn't get the prime time game?
WOW!
That is a big shock to me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 22, 2006, 03:24:00 PM
To allow time for IC and UC fans to get to Rochester?  Makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 22, 2006, 03:33:51 PM
GB, I'm a feminist.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 22, 2006, 03:36:01 PM
Sense for travel- yes.
But I have a bias.
My team won the league, they have home court-
PRIME TIME should be included! ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 04:06:21 PM
Of course you are, Col. Anyone whose favorite game is called "Holey Boards" is obviously a feminist.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 05:09:58 PM
Superman, are you absolutely sure of that? Ithaca's website has the women playing Saturday afternoon and the men playing Friday night.

The utter clusterf___ that would be the logistics that Friday in Fisher's gym if all four games were there, would be off the charts. Would there be any way to accomodate 8 teams that were coming and going as the day went on? Also, by NCAA rule, I think the host team must allow all visitors (including the ones they aren't playing) to have the opportunity to participate in a shootaround at the venue prior to the game. There's no way that could happen if this is the case.

Also, it would make no sense to schedule games during the day on Friday. First, for some schools it's a midterm week. Second, nobody would go to the games because everyone would be at work or at school. Unless the E8 has absolutely no desire to earn any income off this tournament, I'm pretty sure there's no Friday afternoon games.

See my post about what I think the schedule is.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 22, 2006, 05:35:22 PM
according to the Fisher Website, which probably would be the best one to look at since they are hosting both tournaments, it would be correct that the women's games would be at 1:30 and 3:30 (or 20 min after the Fisher vs Ithaca game ends) and then would clear the gym and the men's games would start at 6:30 with Fisher vs RIT and then 20 min after that ends, Utica vs Ithaca.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 22, 2006, 06:00:49 PM
That is the email that I recived from the Athletic Department
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 22, 2006, 06:03:02 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on February 22, 2006, 08:55:23 AM
Looking at everyone's rankings I can't help but notice that, with some minor variations, the league has looked almost exactly the same for the last 7-8 years.  It really seems to break into four groups.

3. Alfred: Had some great talent about 5 years ago (Downing/Docteur/guy that wore Cow Suit and heckled me) but unnoteworthy since. PS-Cow suit guy actually made me laugh, at myself, during a game.  He was the funniest heckler of all time.

I know there may be some disagreement on the board.  Perhaps some will think a team or two should be a spot higher or lower.  Aside from that, why does the league always break out this way? Is it recruiting?  coaching? (which I don't think has changed in that time period) or just general dedication to men's hoops in the respective athletic departments?

I have my own theories but I am curious to hear what you guys think first since I generally just follow IC.

The Cow Suit guy is a good friend of AUPepBand....was a reserve running back on the AU football team who teamed with a few other "clowns" as the "Saxon Sillies." He was an education major who now substitute teaches but worked into a decent job with Bose. The Saxon Sillies' purpose was to have fun and to be a distraction to the opponents. Apparently, he had your number, Jose. He used to perform an utterly provocative dance during timeouts. Attended the Cow Suit guy's graduation party and was happy to give him a black and white cow pillow.

I miss those Saxon Sillies!

As for ranking of Alfred....it's been said many times on this board that AU suffers from poor coaching. Recruiting is so-so as well, although AU was fortunate to pick up Q (Alfred State grad who missed the move to greener pastures) and Stein, who was heartily recruited. Seemed this year, coaches were happy with status quo...didn't want to change anything from last year. So, AU didn't have any better results....13-12 in 2004-05, 12-13 in 2005-06.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 06:31:35 PM
Well, we'll see. I don't see why a conference would place their conference tournament during a schoolday/workday when it could be so easily avoided. Not even mentioning the stupidity of the financial consequences of such a decision, I don't think a conference that preaches "academics first" as much as the E8 does would do that (see not allowing public schools into the conference under any circumstances). I talked to a girl on the IC women's team earlier and she said her understanding is the women's semis were on Saturday. That comment comes less than 48 hours than they would allegedly be on the floor for their game.

I'd understand it more if the games were Saturday/Sunday, but not four games on Friday.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on February 22, 2006, 07:48:29 PM
The mens game will be on wysl 1040am. I would think pregame at 615. If fisher wins final it will be on the net. If you go to Fishers web sit you can click on listen live. They may do the game on sat. even if Fisher isn't playing. Not going Friday night ,but will be there for Sat. match up only if Fisher is in it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on February 22, 2006, 08:01:20 PM
All games will be broadcasted. If you go to www.empire8.com it gives you everything.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on February 22, 2006, 08:02:24 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 05:09:58 PMAlso, it would make no sense to schedule games during the day on Friday. First, for some schools it's a midterm week. Second, nobody would go to the games because everyone would be at work or at school.

I'm actually kind of upset that I'm a Fisher student, not only do they schedule the games during when I have classes and work, they are going to charge me $3 for EVERY Fisher game....so that means if Fisher wins both Friday games, I'm going to have to pay $12 to watch both Fisher teams for the weekend.....I realize they need the gate money, but can't we even get a discount rate for the weekend?? Give me a break.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 22, 2006, 09:27:15 PM
Yeah, a pass that would allow you all 6 games for the weekend at a discounted price would be a good idea.

oh well I will probably spend the money to go anyway...although I really think Fisher should be the primetime game...it just makes no sense to do anything different...oh well

GO CARDS
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 22, 2006, 09:29:50 PM
on another note...when was the last time the E8 had 2 teams in the top 5 in the region, and SUNY had only one...I can't think of one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 09:58:37 PM
Wow, what a joke this all-day session on Friday thing is. I hope someone in the E8 office or Fisher athletic department gets an earful for this.

It is so unnecessary to play all 4 semi-finals in one day, let alone on a weekday. Sure, it's only the women's game that people are missing, but I honestly think the Fisher/Ithaca women's game will be one of the most competitive and exciting games of the weekend. Unfortunately, Ithaca will have about 25 fans in attendance for that game and they'll all be parents. What a joke.

Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but if Fisher did have some say in when the games were, does anyone else notice that 5 of the 8 teams in the two tournaments played on Tuesday night (Ithaca men & women, Utica men & women, Elmira women) Two of the three teams that didn't play Tuesday and had a chance to rest were the Fisher men and women and the RIT men. That's a pretty quick turn-around that certainly gives an advantage to a well-rested team, two of which happen to be Fisher's teams.

Just from a financial standpoint (little-to-no attendance for the Friday afternoon games) and considering the feasible and, more importantly, better alternatives, I have no clue why or who chose to do this. Stupid idea by all involved. I have half a mind to write Mitrano right now and see who's behind this. In fact, I might.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 22, 2006, 10:17:26 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 09:58:37 PM
Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but if Fisher did have some say in when the games were, does anyone else notice that 5 of the 8 teams in the two tournaments played on Tuesday night (Ithaca men & women, Utica men & women, Elmira women) Two of the three teams that didn't play Tuesday and had a chance to rest were the Fisher men and women and the RIT men. That's a pretty quick turn-around that certainly gives an advantage to a well-rested team, two of which happen to be Fisher's teams.
I know that basketball is somewhat different than football, but I don't necessarily see much of an advantage in rest time. It was a well rested Fisher football team that got beat up by AU...the Cardinals could have used a week to heal their wounds after that but instead had to tackle RPI. And both the Seahawks and Steelers were "flat" after the week's layoff provided for media hype.
After 25 games with some weeks of Tues.-Fri.-Sat. games, these guys should be ready to go. But of course, AU isn't going anywhere.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 22, 2006, 10:28:38 PM
Just to clear some things up:

GB15: I think, well I know, you got carried away. There are no economic considerations or conspiracy theories on the tourney dates.

Both tournaments are on Friday/Saturday because the final conference call for the selection committee is at 2 p.m. Sunday.  The E8 elected not to play on Sunday any more so the tournament would be over long before the conference call based on their (pie in the sky) hope of getting a Pool C selection. Pat, correct me if I am wrong, but I remember you being an advocate of leagues not playing title games on selection sunday.  Is that right?

As for the women's early start, that is the only way it works if both tourneys are at the same site.  See Feminists below.

Fish91: Your alma mater didn't lose out on the "prime time spot."  They chose to play in the early game.  The host school picks which slot to play in.  I am assuming they want the extra two hours of rest.  Hard to blame them for that.  Few things are harder than games in back-to-back days.  Any ex-hoop players on this board can back me up on that.

Feminists: Not to worry, no one put the women first and the men last.  The E8 bylaws say that, should one school host both tournaments the women will play first in even numbered years (2006) and the men will play first in odd number years.

I think sometimes this board allows us to get carried away.  Before you know it Fisher is conspiring to rig the E8 tournament (as if they actually needed a conspiracy to win the league) and Mark Robinson is at the NFL combine (I heard one of the geniuses on IC's radio station say that he read that on the board before the Fish-IC game).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 10:45:31 PM
Thanks, Jose. I wasn't 100% serious about a conspiracy theory, hence why I qualified it before I started on it. How do you know all this E8 info, Jose? I find myself navigating the website for long periods of time just to locate tiebreakers.

The world, or at least this board, is a better place when there are more Bombers posters.

That's classic how they actually wrote such a rule in the bylaws about which gender gets to play first in what years. Unfortunately, I think such good faith is negated when you think how the women always have to play first in the league. Damnit, having one of the leading advocates in the nation for Title IX as one of my advisors is rubbing off on me too much.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on February 22, 2006, 10:28:38 PM

I think sometimes this board allows us to get carried away. Before you know it Fisher is conspiring to rig the E8 tournament (as if they actually needed a conspiracy to win the league) and Mark Robinson is at the NFL combine (I heard one of the geniuses on IC's radio station say that he read that on the board before the Fish-IC game).

Of course, that's why we love this board. That Robinson comment is fantastic. To top it, when I was a Junior, there was a rumor circulating that several NFL Scouts were in attendance to see Brian Bicher play. The best part: he was the punter! I later heard he got invited to the combine. Do punters even go to the combine?? If by "combine" people meant "behind the bar at The Bear Lodge," then yes, Bicher went to the combine.

That last comment probably got my ass kicked next time I go to the Bear Lodge. Oh well, it won't be for awhile.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 22, 2006, 11:08:07 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on February 22, 2006, 10:28:38 PM

I think sometimes this board allows us to get carried away. Before you know it Fisher is conspiring to rig the E8 tournament (as if they actually needed a conspiracy to win the league) and Mark Robinson is at the NFL combine (I heard one of the geniuses on IC's radio station say that he read that on the board before the Fish-IC game).

Of course, that's why we love this board. That Robinson comment is fantastic. To top it, when I was a Junior, there was a rumor circulating that several NFL Scouts were in attendance to see Brian Bicher play. The best part: he was the punter! I later heard he got invited to the combine. Do punters even go to the combine?? If by "combine" people meant "behind the bar at The Bear Lodge," then yes, Bicher went to the combine.

That last comment probably got my ass kicked next time I go to the Bear Lodge. Oh well, it won't be for awhile.

Ironically this one is not so fanciful.  While he didn't go to the combine he did have a private workout with the Giants and, if I am not mistaken, got invited to their camp (possibly two years in a row).

You don't have to worry about getting beat up behind the Bear Lodge, it got shut down.  I noticed at the Fisher game this fall.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 11:52:17 PM
Good thing the Giants went with Jeff Feagles.

You bring up a true point, Jose. The sportscasters definitely sniff around in here to get some extra news tidbits. I was listening to the first IC/Cortland game and the play-by-play guy returned from a break with "welcome back to the Ben Light Gymnasium or, as I like to call it, 'The Bulb.' "

Well, I nearly had a heart attack for a couple reasons. First off, being the founder of the nickname "The Bulb," I was like a proud papa watching his firstborn go on to fame and riches. Little did I know such ubiquity would come to the nickname "The Bulb," when I created my original posting name, "Not In The Bulb." However, I was a little offended. I did not appreciate this announcer intimating that "The Bulb" was his creation. I took offense when he said "as I like to call it." Considering I had never heard of this kid in my life, and he wasn't within the group of friends that went to IC basketball games, I reasoned he must of read it in here at some point.

I have since been plotting my revenge, searching for the perfect time to fabricate a story in here that will prompt him to recite as his own on the largest possible stage. Well that time has arrived, friends. I am fairly certain he will be calling the IC/Utica game this Friday evening; he tends to be calling the bigger games of late, despite his theivery and overall lack of inciteful diologue on-air.

I need the help of others, though. What is an untrue story that he may read about tomorrow night while he prepares for Friday's game and searches through here. Give me some topics. Here's what I have so far:

-Ray Bryant, when not attending classes or playing basketball, is the city of Utica's most beloved midwife. He recently set a February record by aiding in the birth of over 75 infants. The name of his service is "Ray Ray's BayBay's."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on February 23, 2006, 12:34:54 AM
The SUNYAC runs their mens and women's tournament semifinals on Friday and has for the last few years. The men and women usually alternate between who plays the early games on Friday. This year, the men get the first session at the AUD at 1:00 PM and 3:00 PM. The women play in the evening session at 6:00 PM and 8:00 PM. The title games are broken up the same way on Saturday, with the men first, and then the women.

It makes for a really long day on Friday and for the students, its hard to get to the early games. But, if the tournament was more spread out, would it generate more money and have more fans? I think its more economical to have the tournament all on two days. Say you're playing at a non-campus site. If you add that extra day, you're paying all of the building costs for the third day when there's just one game. Probably the same issues on campus, but not a lot of the extra expenses an off-campus site might have. But, I can see the other side of it in spreading the tournament out so everyone gets a chance to be in the spotlight. Not to mention giving the team's who played earlier in the week a chance to rest.

Thankfully, there's broadcasters that are able to make it to these week day games. That way, those of us who might be at work during the early semifinal can listen on the computer at a low level LOL. Empire 8 men will be triple covered with WYSL, WICB and possibly Sports Stars. Count in the same three hopefully for the women's side.

GB, the initials of this particular announcer....BB perhaps?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 23, 2006, 12:35:03 AM
Hey everyone, I'm a Cortland and St. John Fisher fan! Which one do you think could get the #1 seed in the region when seedings come out on Sunday? Also Fisher fans, will you guys go through what you went through last year if you are the #1 seed again, and playing again on the road during the Sweet "16"? I thought that was complete BULL! I'd like to read everyone's responses. Thanks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 23, 2006, 12:57:41 AM
I think that Fisher would get the number 1 seed based on SOS.  On last year, we have to do what we have to do what we have to do.  the students will most likely travel, hopefully it's not that far again
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 23, 2006, 09:38:50 AM
Jose-
You are exactly right.
Back to back is tough.
Good call!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 23, 2006, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: Javaman on February 23, 2006, 12:35:03 AM
Hey everyone, I'm a Cortland and St. John Fisher fan! Which one do you think could get the #1 seed in the region when seedings come out on Sunday? Also Fisher fans, will you guys go through what you went through last year if you are the #1 seed again, and playing again on the road during the Sweet "16"? I thought that was complete BULL! I'd like to read everyone's responses. Thanks.

I am sure Pat is going to jump in here and keep everyone on the proper page but maybe I can beat him to the punch.  Unlike the D1 Tournament, the D3 Tournament is not seeded per se.  So the actual answer is neither SJF or Cortland will be the #1 seed.  Last year we all understood that Fisher was the equivalent of a 1 seed.  You also have to remember that the site of the Sweet 16 is not determined solely by the highest seed.  The site of the Sweet 16 is the school that is the most centrally located of the remaining four.  The NCAA has an interest in reducing travel expenses for schools with smaller athletic budgets.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2006, 09:50:37 AM
Except for last year, when they had the regionals in Amherst, Mass. Two of the three other teams were from Rochester and the third from Potsdam.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 23, 2006, 10:10:08 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 22, 2006, 11:52:17 PM
Good thing the Giants went with Jeff Feagles.

You bring up a true point, Jose. The sportscasters definitely sniff around in here to get some extra news tidbits. I was listening to the first IC/Cortland game and the play-by-play guy returned from a break with "welcome back to the Ben Light Gymnasium or, as I like to call it, 'The Bulb.' "

Well, I nearly had a heart attack for a couple reasons. First off, being the founder of the nickname "The Bulb," I was like a proud papa watching his firstborn go on to fame and riches. Little did I know such ubiquity would come to the nickname "The Bulb," when I created my original posting name, "Not In The Bulb." However, I was a little offended. I did not appreciate this announcer intimating that "The Bulb" was his creation. I took offense when he said "as I like to call it." Considering I had never heard of this kid in my life, and he wasn't within the group of friends that went to IC basketball games, I reasoned he must of read it in here at some point.

I have since been plotting my revenge, searching for the perfect time to fabricate a story in here that will prompt him to recite as his own on the largest possible stage. Well that time has arrived, friends. I am fairly certain he will be calling the IC/Utica game this Friday evening; he tends to be calling the bigger games of late, despite his theivery and overall lack of inciteful diologue on-air.

I need the help of others, though. What is an untrue story that he may read about tomorrow night while he prepares for Friday's game and searches through here. Give me some topics. Here's what I have so far:

-Ray Bryant, when not attending classes or playing basketball, is the city of Utica's most beloved midwife. He recently set a February record by aiding in the birth of over 75 infants. The name of his service is "Ray Ray's BayBay's."

Holy sh!t, I almost spit my soda all over the keyboard at that last part about Ray Bryant. That is extremely funny. :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 23, 2006, 11:06:53 AM
This pretty bold, but I really think Amherst will be in our bracket again.

1. Amherst
2. St. John Fisher
3. Cortland
4. Hamiliton

What does everyone else think?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 23, 2006, 11:19:49 AM
I would have to agree with you 100% and if things go the way I think they will and Fisher and Amherst both and the keyword here is both get to the sweet 16, then Amherst would host again b/c of higher ranking, better QOWI, even though from what I heard last year, there gym isn't that much bigger than Fisher's and the parking situation was atrocious.

what does everyone else think

p.s. I know before people start criticizing this message, I know you got to take things one game at a time
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 23, 2006, 11:23:28 AM
You are just being confident! ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 23, 2006, 11:24:12 AM
that is true but with the NCAA tournament weird things do tend to happen
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2006, 11:26:45 AM
Quote from: fisheralum03 on February 23, 2006, 11:19:49 AM
I would have to agree with you 100% and if things go the way I think they will and Fisher and Amherst both and the keyword here is both get to the sweet 16, then Amherst would host again b/c of higher ranking, better QOWI, even though from what I heard last year, there gym isn't that much bigger than Fisher's and the parking situation was atrocious.

what does everyone else think

p.s. I know before people start criticizing this message, I know you got to take things one game at a time

If those three teams are the four remaining in the region at the time, I have to think they're not going to send the three NY teams to Amherst again. The NCAA was widely criticized for that last year. That said, not knowing how big Hamilton's gym is, I'd guess they'd put the Sweet 16 at C-State or Hamilton. It would be a joke if they send everyone to Massachusetts again.

I say this as the kid sitting next to me in my class is an Amherst grad and literally just said "it should always be in Amherst if they're playing against NY teams...NY teams suck."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 23, 2006, 11:30:55 AM
Make sure he knows what state Rochester is in.  Maybe he forgot about last season's tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 23, 2006, 11:34:30 AM
I think a lot of where the Sweet 16 is depends on who is playing.  I have a hard time seeing it being at Fisher period, but then again you never know.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 23, 2006, 11:38:03 AM
I'm a Cortland student and the Cortland gym called "Corey Gymnasium" is huge. Cortland could get lucky and host it, IF they advance.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 23, 2006, 11:47:44 AM
I'm in the middle about seeing Amherst "host" the Sweet "16" for the second straight year. I think since they hosted it last year, someone new should host it this year. But I'm sure the NCAA staff doesn't think that way.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 23, 2006, 12:36:48 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 23, 2006, 11:26:45 AM
That said, not knowing how big Hamilton's gym is

Hamilton doesn't have a gym, they have a Field House and it is incredible.  Parkay (that can't be spelled right) floor like the old garden and lots of room for extra seating.  It came down to Hamilton or IC for me when I was a senior in high school and on basketball alone it was Hamilton all the way due in large part to their amazing facilities.  That would be the perfect arena if they can get there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2006, 12:45:40 PM
No way it's at Fisher. Way too small of a gym.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 23, 2006, 12:49:04 PM
After watching the regionals in Amherst last year, I'm not sure they could choose a facility with less seating -- even Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 23, 2006, 01:24:26 PM
Less than Fisher?
Hard to believe!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 23, 2006, 01:47:18 PM
As a feminist I feel that Amherst was a bit bigger than Fisher, but would still fit inside Cortland St. twice.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 23, 2006, 07:22:37 PM
If the NCAA chooses on size of gym, then it is not even a choice between those 4 schools. Cortland has by far the biggest gym...

having said that I think that no matter what the size of the gym is the team that deserves to play at home, should play at home...for example, last year, what more can Fisher do to get a home sweet 16 game. I understand the gym is small but that is part of the reason they are so good at home.

I think a 27-0 team should really have at least a good shot at a home game. I do understand the ticket income, and size of the gym and all that. Again to reference last year, how could Amherst bring in more people than playing the games at U of R, with Rochester fans, Fisher fans, and probably a healthy group of the other two schools making the trip.

Although, I do live in Cortland, so this year I am all for picking the tourny location based on size of the gym...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 23, 2006, 08:01:31 PM
Even then Fisher students are more likely to make the 2 hour drive to CState, then the 5 hour drive to Amherst
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 23, 2006, 09:02:21 PM
Hey you never know, maybe the Committiee will avoid the contraversy like last year and put Amherst in another region. That may be a good thing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2006, 09:32:54 PM
I'm gonna post a women's tourney question because I'd like it to be answered before Memorial Day and that wouldn't happen if I posted in that room.

If Fisher doesn't win the E8 Women's Tourney, will they get an at-large bid? Despite going 14-0 in the E8, voters aren't giving them any love. Fisher isn't even receiving votes in the latest poll, while Cortland is. If the Cardinals don't win their tourney this weekend, I think they may get snubbed because of how bad the E8 was this year.

Quickly, my picks for this weekend:

Women

Utica over Elmira- I'm sure both teams have nice players with nice coaches and nice fans. I just couldn't give a rat's ass about this game. My pick is Utica because they were streaking as the season ended and Elmira backed into the tournament, losing 3 of their last 4.

Ithaca over Fisher- My upset special. The Cards better be ready for a war on Friday afternoon. To be honest, I think this will be the most exciting, back-and-forth game of the entire weekend. This rivalry is second to only Naz/Fisher men in the E8. They genuinely don't like each other. The Bombers have nothing to lose and this is the game they were dying to have back. Ithaca handed the Cards the game the last time the two played at Fisher, allowing the Cards to end the game on a 16-0 run over the last 4 minutes, to win by 7. Note to keep in mind: Ithaca has ended Fisher's season for three years straight.

Men

Fisher over RIT. Pretty safe bet. Cards are pretty much untouchable in the E8 save for when they lock up with Naz.

Ithaca over Utica. Great day to be a Bomber. Do I necessarily think this will happen? No. But I've got the winner right the last two times they played and I'll be damned if I pick Utica again.

May everyone play well and the best teams win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: cuse2003champs on February 23, 2006, 10:48:55 PM
Bring on St. John Fisher...they would finish 5th in NESCAC.  directly from the NESCAC board, only sane reason they could say that is because fisher got shipped out their last year, sounds like a bunch of red sox fans with ben afflacks smarts.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 24, 2006, 01:03:45 AM
Fisher didn't help themselves last year, when they proved that 27-0 didn't mean much as Potsdam beat the sh*t out of them in the first round. 

That being said, Amherst didn't exactly put on a great show on their home court either.  Potsdam and UR were obviously the class of that sectional.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 24, 2006, 07:12:55 AM
Hey Cuse 2003,
As a Fisher alum and a Red sox fan -go back to your board.

Although I am a huge Cuse fan-
You may get special dispensation if you are civil! ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 24, 2006, 10:38:52 AM
anyone that will be listening to the Fisher-Ithaca game this afternoon want to give periodic updates. I am at work and don't have access to WYSL1040 online
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 24, 2006, 11:11:01 AM
You want updates on the womens game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2006, 11:21:40 AM
GB15 can't see Ithaca winning, they might of given away the last one but the one at Ithaca was all Fisher.  and if you don't stop Hartmen then you will be going home real fast
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 24, 2006, 11:49:35 AM
if possible, this game this afternoon might be a good game. If you don't want to you don't have to
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 24, 2006, 11:51:42 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 23, 2006, 09:32:54 PM
I'm gonna post a women's tourney question because I'd like it to be answered before Memorial Day and that wouldn't happen if I posted in that room.

If Fisher doesn't win the E8 Women's Tourney, will they get an at-large bid? Despite going 14-0 in the E8, voters aren't giving them any love. Fisher isn't even receiving votes in the latest poll, while Cortland is. If the Cardinals don't win their tourney this weekend, I think they may get snubbed because of how bad the E8 was this year.

Quickly, my picks for this weekend:

Women

Utica over Elmira- I'm sure both teams have nice players with nice coaches and nice fans. I just couldn't give a rat's ass about this game. My pick is Utica because they were streaking as the season ended and Elmira backed into the tournament, losing 3 of their last 4.

Ithaca over Fisher- My upset special. The Cards better be ready for a war on Friday afternoon. To be honest, I think this will be the most exciting, back-and-forth game of the entire weekend. This rivalry is second to only Naz/Fisher men in the E8. They genuinely don't like each other. The Bombers have nothing to lose and this is the game they were dying to have back. Ithaca handed the Cards the game the last time the two played at Fisher, allowing the Cards to end the game on a 16-0 run over the last 4 minutes, to win by 7. Note to keep in mind: Ithaca has ended Fisher's season for three years straight.

Men

Fisher over RIT. Pretty safe bet. Cards are pretty much untouchable in the E8 save for when they lock up with Naz.

Ithaca over Utica. Great day to be a Bomber. Do I necessarily think this will happen? No. But I've got the winner right the last two times they played and I'll be damned if I pick Utica again.

May everyone play well and the best teams win.

I read this post real quick and thought you said the girls had nice asses.  ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2006, 12:47:46 PM
After taking a look at the latest regional rankings, I think Utica stands a chance at getting an at large bid, if they beat Ithaca, then lose to Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 24, 2006, 01:05:32 PM
Yes, they have a chance.  But I think it's a long-shot.  Another poster, Hoops Fan, does a nice job of listing all the Pool C contenders here http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4232.msg492870#msg492870, ranked according to QOWI.

There are 18 pool C bids.  If all conference winners are accounted for and there are no upsets (unlikely), Utica ranks 20-ish on the QOWI.  After a few conference tourney upsets they will be even further out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 01:19:58 PM
You know, at minimum(especially in D3), about 4 or 5 of those teams leading their conference are not going to win their tourney. I think Utica really has to hope SUNYIT and Oswego meet in the SUNYAC finals with SUNYIT winning. That would give their resume a bit of a boost, with their two early-season victories over SUNYIT.

I'd like to see two E8 teams in the tourney, I really would. What I wouldn't like is how nauseating it would be listening to Clear if it really happened. Then again, I suppose it's difficult to "act like you've been there" when...you haven't.

Budcrew, no, I definitely did say anything about the asses of the ladies. However, Fisher used to have some cute girls on their team. That girl Trisha Tofany was a fox, we'd whistle at her each time she ran by us. She was not amused. We were.

Today's first women's semi features the most heavily made-up team(Fisher) against by far the most tan team (Ithaca). It should be a cosmetic battle for the ages. We finally get to see what's better, wearing too much makeup or having orange skin. Should be thrilling.

Fisheralum03, I may give some periodic updates. I have to stay in the library and do some work this afternoon so I'll be listening to the game. If I were still in Rochester, I definitely would have taken the day off and been drunk by now. You all are lucky.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 24, 2006, 01:26:41 PM
Fisher is lucky to have women good looking enough to wear makeup.
Back in my day you were talking bow wow! :o
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 24, 2006, 01:28:50 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 01:19:58 PM
You know, at minimum(especially in D3), about 4 or 5 of those teams leading their conference are not going to win their tourney. I think Utica really has to hope SUNYIT and Oswego meet in the SUNYAC finals with SUNYIT winning. That would give their resume a bit of a boost, with their two early-season victories over SUNYIT.

I'd like to see two E8 teams in the tourney, I really would. What I wouldn't like is how nauseating it would be listening to Clear if it really happened. Then again, I suppose it's difficult to "act like you've been there" when...you haven't.

Budcrew, no, I definitely did say anything about the asses of the ladies. However, Fisher used to have some cute girls on their team. That girl Trisha Tofany was a fox, we'd whistle at her each time she ran by us. She was not amused. We were.

Today's first women's semi features the most heavily made-up team(Fisher) against by far the most tan team (Ithaca). It should be a cosmetic battle for the ages. We finally get to see what's better, wearing too much makeup or having orange skin. Should be thrilling.

Fisheralum03, I may give some periodic updates. I have to stay in the library and do some work this afternoon so I'll be listening to the game. If I were still in Rochester, I definitely would have taken the day off and been drunk by now. You all are lucky.

thanks GB15. By the way, good luck to your teams today, you're going to need it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on February 24, 2006, 01:36:08 PM
Being stuck at work, if I could get women's game updates, that would be sweet.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on February 24, 2006, 01:36:45 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 24, 2006, 01:26:41 PM
Fisher is lucky to have women good looking enough to wear makeup.
Back in my day you were talking bow wow! :o

Agreed.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 24, 2006, 01:58:10 PM
trust me - they could kick ass-
I mean literally!
Guys asses!
Saw a dude go down with a single punch!
Now those were tough girls!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 02:01:01 PM
Fisher closes the half on a 7-2 run and leads 37-28 at half. It was tight until the last 3 minutes of the half.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 24, 2006, 02:07:00 PM
Hartman has 14 at the half.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 02:21:38 PM
Bombers down 19 with 16 mins to play. Oh well, time to do work for the rest of the day. I spent approximately 0.000000002 seconds being upset about this game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 02:23:27 PM
Ithaca's allowed to have a down year after losing one of the best players in the country and the best player this conference has ever seen.

I hope Fisher can do something this year because they're so senior-laden. If not this year, probably not again anytime soon.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 24, 2006, 02:24:42 PM
Any news on which looked better- the makeup or the tan?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 24, 2006, 02:47:14 PM
any update on the game. last time we heard it was Fisher up by 19
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on February 24, 2006, 02:55:04 PM
78-53 Fisher Melissa Hartman 24 points.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 24, 2006, 02:57:48 PM
Nice to see a local girl kick ass!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2006, 03:12:24 PM
Since this board has gone south fast, I think over all Ithaca's girls looked better, but Fisher has a couple that are best looking.  Other than that, Fisher really controled this game, Ithaca was just staying tight and then Fisher ran away.  Good Job girls lets take it tommorow
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on February 24, 2006, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: superman57 on February 24, 2006, 03:12:24 PM
Since this board has gone south fast, I think over all Ithaca's girls looked better, but Fisher has a couple that are best looking.  Other than that, Fisher really controled this game, Ithaca was just staying tight and then Fisher ran away.  Good Job girls lets take it tommorow

And we all know you'd have zero chance with any of them.....you speed dating superstar.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on February 24, 2006, 03:15:19 PM
But on a lighter note (I couldn't help myself with the previous comment), congrats to the ladies and let's hope the men have the same luck  8)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2006, 03:19:15 PM
Hey at least I can admit it :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 24, 2006, 03:27:55 PM
Gone are the old days when the MEN wanted to date the cheerleaders and the womens bball team stayed home alone I guess!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2006, 03:29:10 PM
First off,
Jukebox, I have never done anything on this board to attack you, so just because I am man enought to put my actual email on this board doesn't mean you should come in and make stupid comments.  I go to all of the games and make comments based on what I see at these games so post about the games and stop taking stupid shots at me, just because I put my email acount up there.  

and fisheralum, have you seen the cheerleaders
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 24, 2006, 03:32:25 PM
Bad?
They were never the knockouts, but I dated a pretty good looking one.
Too bad!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 24, 2006, 04:21:21 PM
Yeah, I deleted that post 5 seconds after I made it when I realized I misread the score. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 24, 2006, 04:25:29 PM
yeah I did too one you realized the mixup. :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 24, 2006, 04:48:13 PM
shocker from UTICA WAR MEMORIAL AUD. SUNYIT 81 CORTLAND STATE 74
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 04:55:28 PM
Cortland is really limping into the NCAA's. That said, I don't know if there's going to be a total of four SUNYAC and E8 teams in the tourney, but there's going to have to be if Fisher loses. I think this pretty much guarantees Utica needs to win the E8 tourney now. They were probably expecting to do that anyways.

I'll be listening to exactly ZERO of the Bombers/Utica game today. Contrary to Clear saying I don't have a life, our school rented out a bar on a Bourbon tonight and it's the Friday before Mardi Gras. Hmmmm, Empire 8 tournament or get hammered on a balcony watching people show their boobs all night. I think you can guess which this guy is picking (errr, more for the drinking part than the boobs).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 24, 2006, 04:57:32 PM
If Ithaca had a good coach GB15, i'd probably do a little of both, but since Mullins is horrible in a big game, (I.E. take last year up 7 on Fisher with 10 minutes left and couldn't snap there throats) I would rather get drunk and go to Mardi Gras. Enjoy!! Good luck with Ithaca tonight and getting drunk too.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 24, 2006, 06:07:46 PM
Yep boys we play nobody... a poor schedule.

All I now is we beat SUNYIT 2 times.  The State league sucks this year period and everyone knows it. 
Hopefully the committee will do the right thing and put2 teams from our league in.

We deserve that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 24, 2006, 06:38:04 PM
any early update on the Fisher RIT game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on February 24, 2006, 07:11:44 PM
RIT 32 FISHER 29 @half
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 07:17:02 PM
SUNYIT has such an advantage with their coach. It's almost like he's good for additional 5-10 points in big games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 07:33:22 PM
RIT and Fisher tied with 11 minutes remaining. Sounds like you better be wearing headgear in this one, it's getting physical.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 07:46:20 PM
Fisher opens a 50-42 lead and RIT answers right back with a 7-0 run of their own capped by a 3-pointer from Zeinfeld. SJF leads 50-49 with 7:06 remaining.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on February 24, 2006, 07:55:36 PM
59-57 3 minutes to play
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 07:57:56 PM
61-57, Fisher, 1:36 on the clock. Cardinals ball.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on February 24, 2006, 08:01:46 PM
61-60    :31 seconds left Bacon has free throw to tie it..........very interesting McVean calls time out before second free throw to tie the game.....Ices his own shooter
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 08:02:51 PM
61-59, Fisher leads. There is 31.2 seconds remaining, Bacon going to the line.

First one...GOOD, 61-60.

Second one...GOOD, tied at 61.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on February 24, 2006, 08:03:32 PM
61-61   :23 seconds left Fisher ball come on boys get a stop!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 08:05:15 PM
This would be the upset of the season in the East Region, especially considering how Fisher owns RIT.

McVean is a great coach. I wish Ithaca's coach was half as good.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on February 24, 2006, 08:06:53 PM
O'Brien misses potential game winner.....RIT rebound RIT timeout with .5 seconds left looks like were heading for OT. Bad news for Fisher they are in bigtime foul trouble and they cant stop Bacon.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on February 24, 2006, 08:13:53 PM
63-63 2 minutes left in OT......
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 08:14:12 PM
Bacon gets the hoop and the foul. 4th on McSweeney. Tied at 63-63.

Bacons FT is no good. Still tied.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 08:18:50 PM
McGee, an 80% FT shooter, misses 2 FT's. Tied at 65 with 1 minute.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 08:19:49 PM
Sean O'Brien hits a 19-footer with 1.7 seconds remaining. Fisher leads, 67-65.

Go for the win, McVean. I bet they draw up a play for Snyder or Zeinfeld.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 08:22:09 PM
Springer misses a 3-pointer at the buzzer. Fisher wins in OT, 67-65. What a game.

Hell of an effort from RIT and Fisher battled through.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: the bird man on February 24, 2006, 08:28:52 PM
Wow...what a great game. RIT put a scare into Fisher for sure,
Now lets go IC...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 08:42:23 PM
I'm heading out now, guys. I'm just rooting for a good game tonight and I hope the best team wins.

It seems like people should WANT to play Fisher in the 1st round of the E8 tourney. Ithaca took them to the final minute last season and RIT had them on the ropes in OT.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2006, 08:55:15 PM
One more thing: Ray Bryant is 27 years old?!?!?! Why was this never brought up before? I knew he looked like he was 30 but I didn't really think he was close to that age. If Utica needs an older player a few years from now, I'm available. Just sayin because they have Bryant and used to have Old Man Tim Troy.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 24, 2006, 09:06:08 PM
Hell of a game. I haven't seen a better game in the E8 tourney's history (yes, it's only a few years old).  Thing that impressed me tonight was the Tiger's defense.  There were very, very few easy jumpers on either end.  Tim Bacon was close to unstoppable in the post for the Tigers though.  Might have earned himself All-E8 honors of some sort.

Fisher went up by 8 twice in the second half -- both times it looked like it might be it for the Tigers -- but they roared back.

O'Brien really needed to hit that shot, if he hadn't and RIT had found a way to win he would have been the goat.  He must have had at least 7 or 8 turnovers, getting ripped again and again by Martin and Roy.  Offensive rebounding really saved the Cardinals tonight, as their shooters were not getting good shots. 

Bittersweet feeling, seeing such a good game in which the Tigers go down.  But a fun two hours.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 24, 2006, 09:09:36 PM
One more thing, last season I ripped Fisher's AD on this board.  But tonight I want to commend him, when the game was really intense at the end of regulation and the Fisher student section was getting ready to burst -- he went down there and stood between them and court and calmed things down.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 24, 2006, 09:14:07 PM
GB15 - since you're speaking of him I'll give you a fantastic Ray Bryant tidbit.  With about 2 minutes left in regulation of the RIT/Fisher game, Ray came out and stood at the entrance of the tunnel.  He had a boombox on his shoulder with a long extension cord that ran back out of sight.  I couldn't hear the music, I was on the other side of the court, but he stood there for a few seconds rocking out before heading back.  Just one of those things that cracks you up.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2006, 09:17:56 PM
Great Game, absolutly great game.  RIT played just about as good as they could, but everybody in the stands knew what that last play was going to be and O'Brien did what he needed to do.  Good Job guys and lets win tommorow
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 24, 2006, 11:07:06 PM
Great Game RIT/Fisher, it's interesting when Fisher can't make their shots from the perimeter. I thought Fisher lacks an inside game. It could cost them later in the NCAA Tournament, just like last year. This was the first time I watched Utica play, fast team. Surprised they lost to Fisher twice. I really think tom. E8 Championship will be a very close game. Fisher better improve their shooting or it could be just like tonight.

Cortland, I can't believe it. SUNYIT is a well improved team, but come on! Down 12 at the half and lose. Certainly doesn't look like a number 1 team in the SUNYAC. I'm not impressed by the way they finsihed the year. Will they get in? I'm not so sure. I'm guessing they get in and host a first round game. It will be interesting IF Cortland plays @ Fisher in the second round.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 24, 2006, 11:59:55 PM
Fisher RIT was a good game but I have a little different perspective on it.  Fisher couldn't put the game away when it need to.  If they lost I thought a couple things might come back to haunt Fisher and Biegel.  First a slam that he attempted and that went soaring out of bounds and then following up with an inept inbound outlet pass right to a defender 2 feet in front of him that put it in for 2 more.
Also I was driven nuts by O'Brien holding the ball for last shot down to 8 seconds before he made any attempt to head to the basket leaving no options but himself.  Glad to see he redeemed himself in ot.
Towards the end of the second half the bald ref made a bad call on stuff by Bennett that almost turned the tide to RIT.  I have trouble with that ref as invariably his ego gets the best of him and he makes a call most games that make the game about him and not the players.
I was afraid that OT was going to bite Fisher in the ass as they had several players in foul trouble.  McSweeney fouled out and Biegel and McGee had 4 each.  I was worried about a second overtime with Fisher running out of warm bodies.  Kornecker did not go real deep and did not use Smalt at all in the 4rth quarter and did not used Fenyn at all. 

Interested in how bad Utica beat IC. I watched the first half and was impressed on how fast a game it was as both teams were working hard.  Not sure about tomorrow but think Utica would have beat up on Fisher tonight how they were playing.  Perhaps it will be a slower and different game as it must be tough for old man Bryant to play two hard games in back to back nights.  He had a great full court bounce pass on a fast break tonight that was not handled by his teammate but was a thing of beauty anyways.   

Often posters on this board have had Fisher in the upper echelons of the league and all the other teams distantly behind them in second place.  I wish them well tomorrow but I see them as the underdog tomorrow even at home.

Good luck to Fisher tomorrow
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 25, 2006, 12:05:30 AM
Geeze, if it wasn't for a few Utica runs.... Ithaca would have won.  NO SHOT BABY.  We drilled them tonight.  But I realize that they are a mediocre team at best anyway.

As for tomorrow this is what everybody wanted, it is clearly the 2 best teams in the league - and it just may be the two best teams in the region.

Should be fun.  All I know is there were alot of Fisher/Rochester people walking out after the game saying that they can't figure out how Fisher beat Utica 2 times this season.  I agree, but the bottom line is they have.

Go Pioneers!  As happy as I would be to win - I have to say the thrill of pounding Ithaca and listening to GB talk about how "I hope it is a good game" blah blah blah ... you down play it but I know you were hoping and expected to be better.  But keep on prefacing everything with the pre-game downplaying quotes.

No matter, we put you out of your misery and we will do you the favor again next year.


Let's go!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on February 25, 2006, 12:06:42 AM
I think "old man" Ray Bryant can handle playing back to back games seeing as he has done it successfully the entire season.  Looking forward to the game tomorrow, hoping for a UC victory!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 25, 2006, 05:33:34 AM
Number of Hand Grenades Consumed: 5

Number of Breasts Stared At: 60 (approximate)

Amount GB15 truly cares that IC lost tonight: 0

We figured we should let Utica be better than us in one sport, anyways. This guy is real pumped to see Jon Whetstone never play another game in a Bombers uniform. He's worthless. I'll be sad to see Bellis go, it looks like he was the only player who could do anything tonight. Clear, you know it's true, what did I say Ithaca had to do to have a shot in this game? I said they had to stop Cichon and Lucas. Combined points for those two: 39. That was the main difference, among other things.

I really don't understand how people can go to undergrad in this city. It's honestly ridiculous. To give you an idea of how some of the local Uptown bars look at 4:15am, think of APub in Rochester around 11pm when The Taint is playing (I hate those guys). There was a LINE to get into a bar at 4:15am. That's bananas.

Alright, time for bed. Hopefully Utica can hang tough for at least a half tomorrow. I remember last year when everyone was saying "Ithaca took Fisher to the wire, RIT handled Utica, and Fisher will have trouble beating RIT for a fourth time." Then they beat RIT by about 80. I don't want to be bored tomorrow so I honestly hope it's a good game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 25, 2006, 07:36:32 AM
good morning everybody!!, well we are here, Championship Saturday and the 2 best teams in the conference made it. Well, not without a few dramatic moments last night from Manning & Napier Varsity Gym on Bobby Wanzer Court between Fisher and RIT. What a great game that was. I have to give RIT all the credit in the world. They played the perfect game to beat Fisher. They slowed it down, penetrated and they were hitting there outside shots the majority of the night.  I feel RIT did get shafted at the end of regulation. They should have had 1.1 sec on the clock instead of .5 I thought that shot was going in. The OT was great. Who else would you rather have the ball in his hand with the game on the line than Sean O'Brien. That shot he made was perfect. I thought the clock ran a little slow at the end though. There was 1.7 sec left when RIT called Timeout. Drew Martin threw a baseball pass to half court, can't remember who passed it to Springer (possibly Bacon)(only guessing), then he dribbled and then shot the ball. I had no idea you could do all that in 1.7 sec and still get the ball off on time. Luckily for Fisher, the shot missed and they got out with the win. As it relates to Utica and Ithaca. I expectedly UC to dominate IC I knew IC would make a run but UC was that much better. Now Tonight, Fisher and Utica. This came could be as good as a couple of years ago when Fisher held on for a 62-59 win. A game that low tonight would benefit UC over Fisher though. I expect tonights game to be in the 70's Good luck to both teams.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 25, 2006, 08:35:51 AM
 :P
Is there any gas left in the Fisher tank?
Anybody there that saw the game think fatigue may be a factor in the game tonight?
Go Fisher!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 25, 2006, 08:50:20 AM
that is a great question. I feel fatigue may be a concern but at this time of year what team isn't a little fatigued. This is where all the conditioning drills in practice pays off.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 25, 2006, 09:44:22 AM
The two games last night were polar opposites.

RIT/Fisher was one of the best games I've seen in the past couple years. RIT did everything right to make that a close game, slowing the game down and getting good shots. They played very good defense, but I thought the possessions they went 1-3-1 killed them because they gave up better shots and rebounding opportunties when they were in that defense. O'Brien hit a really tough shot at the end to put Fisher over the top, but RIT had two good looks at the end that could have gone down (Snyder's 3 before the O'Brien shot and Springer's at the buzzer). I think that drops RIT to 14-12 so it will be interesting to see if they make ECAC's.

The second game was just aweful. One of the most boring games I've seen, but that probably was influenced by the fact that the first game was so good and the crowd for the second game was about 1/100th the size of the first game.
It was evident that UC was the more talented team, but good lord, Mullins makes it even more evident. IC can't rebound and Mullins kept his best rebounder, the freshman Bostic, on the bench for exteneded streches. Burton is the only other freshman that should have seen any time, I've seen IC a couple of times now and their other freshman suck, although Mullins insists on playing them in key stretches. It also doesn't help that Andreskawhatever can only play about 4 minutes before he looks like he will pass out. If you are a starter on any college team, you need to be in better shape than that.

Just a couple observations on the second game:

- This was the first time I've seen Ray Bryant - I wasn't impressed. Cichon was the best player on the floor tonight and Bellis was the second best. After that, I would take Lucas and then Bryant. Maybe he knows, just as Col does, that he is already the MVP so he thought he could mail it in.
- I've never seen a player pick up as many stupid fouls as Whetstone from IC. He had 3 fouls in the first half and every one was stupid and could have been avoided. He has been doing this since his freshman year and has never learned.
- Daley and Murphy are bad coaches, but Mullins isn't that far behind, he's terrible. A couple friends of mine insist that McVean is a bad coach. He may have some strange substituion patterns, but I'll take him over the 3 just mentioned any day.
- Clear, I hope you were not part of the 2-3 man cheering section in the second level. If you were, I can't say I'm suprised, but if you drove 3 hours to do that, I feel sorry for you.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on February 25, 2006, 10:31:55 AM
Beigel may have the most invisible 10 points, 7 boards (his season averages) in the entire E8. He's really not good at all. Luckily, he's only a sophomore....I liken him to Terrence Roberts....maybe when he decides to actually play he might be good. I'm not going to rip on the missed dunk any more than just saying that was the first time I've ever seen him TRY to dunk....and he picked the wrong time to do it. Leave the dunking to McSweeney, buddy.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 25, 2006, 10:46:03 AM
In other news, York won the CUNYAC according to the front page of D3hoops today, so Pool C is that much more crowded. York? Are you serious? I saw them play RIT this year and they are just horrible. No discipline and just not a good team.

Tim Bacon, 23 pts and 8 boards for RIT last night, by far his best game of the year, especially against the size of Fisher inside.

NotJoshReed, you mentioned a call on Bennett in the second half that wasn't a foul, that may be the case, but there were at least 2 other times when Snyder got raped down low by Bennett or others and there was no call, so I guess it balances out. RIT was aggressive last night and forced the refs to blow the whistle. I don't know the official numbers, but I think the fouls were probably about even.

That being said, Kojak is one of the worst officials around. He seems to ref every big game, but he is just terrible.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 25, 2006, 11:19:01 AM
Another interesting series last night, one that showed me something about McVean I hadn't seen before.  With about 4 minutes left in regulation there's a scramble that ends with McSweeney throwing the ball down with 2 hands.  The crowd erupts and obviously a huge emotional lift for Fisher (now up 4).  McVean calls timeout.

The play he calls out of timeout is a backdoor cut from Rob Hampton (leaper), with Tyler Springer throwing him an oop.  The pass is just a little too far away from the basket but Hampton grabbed it anyway and nearly threw it down, getting fouled in the process.  In a game this intense, McVean wanted his team to answer with a huge play of their own.   


The refereeing was less than perfect, notjoshreed, but you conveniently forgot to mention a crazy sequence at the end of the second half.  Fisher has the ball, up 4, with a minute and a half left.  O'Brien crosses the center line and RIT rushes into a half-court trap.  After a couple passes and some bad dribbling, O'Brien is trapped in the corner by Martin and Roy.  He calls timeout.

The shot-clock resets.  Oops.  There was 20 seconds remaining on it.  The refs don't notice until a fan screams at them.  They give Fisher five extra seconds (25) -- with a minute and a half it's a big deal, especially with the way the first half ended.  I'm sure the refs weren't trying to screw RIT over (they had no idea how much time was left on the shot clock) -- but just an awful, awful job by the scorer's table. 

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 25, 2006, 11:22:36 AM
I have to agree, there were bad calls against both teams.  The bald one was a moron and was making calls that he had no view on, but Fisher won, in probably one of the better games I've seen, SO I tip my hat to RIT and say to Utica lets hope tonights  game is as enjoyable as last nights game.  By the way anyone know the attendance for that game.  It was just about filled

BAMM, they were screwing up all night to both teams, several times they gave RIT fisher's points and then finally moved it back
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 25, 2006, 11:29:33 AM
Fisher guys -- yeah, not trying to take anything away from Fisher.  They pulled one out against a team that was giving them all they could handle.  Superman, I noticed the incorrect scores all night too.  Maybe the scorer's table couldn't handle the pressure of the situation   ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 25, 2006, 11:36:28 AM
I also think that they had been doing it all day too. So I think that you were seeing some exhaustion, that is not a fun job
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jbl2006 on February 25, 2006, 12:38:54 PM
clearconceit, utica is not a better team than Cortland or Oswego State for that matter. St Johns Fisher yes, but not Cstate or O-state, as witnessed by O-states MANHANDLING OF THEM IN THERE HEAD TO HEAD MATCH-UP.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jbl2006 on February 25, 2006, 12:40:00 PM
clearconceit, utica is not a better team than Cortland or Oswego State for that matter. St Johns Fisher yes, but not Cstate or O-state, as witnessed by O-states MANHANDLING OF THEM IN THEIR HEAD TO HEAD MATCH-UP.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 25, 2006, 01:26:40 PM
Wait a minute, Utica isn't better than Cortland or Oswego, but they are better than Fisher, who has already beaten them twice?

Not the soundest logic I've come across.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 25, 2006, 01:32:54 PM
TF2, I think he was saying Fisher is better than C-State or O-State.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on February 25, 2006, 02:13:02 PM
If that is what he is saying then he is still an idiot because he says SJF yes, but not C-state or O-state.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 25, 2006, 03:43:50 PM


That being said, Kojak is one of the worst officials around. He seems to ref every big game, but he is just terrible.
Quote

Hey tiger fan thanks for the name I didnt know him as Kojak but it works.  Over all there were bad calls on both side.  My displeasure Is more with Kojak and last night wasn't as bad as normal.  My problem with him is he interjects himself in most games with a really bad call that often has the potential to change the outcome of the game.  He does this consistantly and he does get many of the top games.
Bamm you are right about the reset. Of the clock.  It was at 20 seconds.  I am surprised between 3 refs and a scorng table they couldnt get that right.
I meant my comment about old man Bryant in jest, but actually it seemed like it could have applied to O'Brien.  I hope he got a good night rest as fisher needs him tonight
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 25, 2006, 05:53:53 PM
The First Fisher ticket to the dance is punched as the women massacare Elmira 87-57.  Ending with PK getting a bath from the water bottles.  Hartmen was huge with 23 and 11 and Baum with 16.  the game was never close
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 25, 2006, 05:59:01 PM
Sorry to upset Suny people but this year the E-8 has the better teams and I believe Utica is better than both of these teams.

Time will tell.

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 25, 2006, 07:17:33 PM
Fisher out to a 20-7 lead with 12 minutes left in the first half. You have to hand it to Fisher how they just come out and pummel teams that seem to be their closest challenger. Last year it was RIT and this year Utica. I'm out for a bit, hopefully the game gets a bit closer.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on February 25, 2006, 07:21:22 PM
Unfortunately facts would suggest otherwise.

Feb 7, 2006

@ Oswego

Oswego 63 Utica 49


Had Utica won that game, they would have still been in strong contention for a pool C bid.  With Oswego's record, that was a 13, possibly 15 point win, and Utica knew it.

Oswego's two losses since then were to the 5 & 6 seeds in the SUNYAC.

I like Utica, they have good players and a great coach, but they would be 10-6 or so playing in the SUNYAC.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 25, 2006, 07:42:13 PM
Fisher is winning 35-25 at halftime against Utica. Fisher is playing well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on February 25, 2006, 08:50:19 PM
Hartwick
Empire 8
Champions!!!!!






---------------
Post-Season Wrap Up will follow within the 72 hours
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hawks1323 on February 25, 2006, 09:03:41 PM
Sorry for the large type. I am growing blind and Dislexsic in old age.

Fisher
Empire 8
Champions!!!!!!!

Pat Coleman, please delete my previous post as I accidentally hit the post button. Thanks!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 25, 2006, 09:06:05 PM
Game was never with in less than 8, Props to Utica for not folding and keeping it some what tight,  But you can't win if you don't hit your shots.  Refs were whistle happy and Fisher was in some serious foul trouble.  There was also a small group of annoying Utica students that had inapropiate signs, so they got taken away, they then went and started complaing that Fisher had their senior poster hanging on the wall.  The poster than got taken down.  Fisher is going back to the dance
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jbl2006 on February 25, 2006, 10:10:18 PM
This is in response to (Tigerfan2 and Reggieball22) below you will see the statement that i was replying to.  This gentlemen was expressing his opinion that he thought Fisher and Utica were the best two teams in the region, and i replied by stating that i thought Oswego State and Cortland state were both better than Utica, but not Fisher. Now if that makes me an idiot (Oswego did beat up on Utica) and Cortland was the ranked #2 in the region until this past weekend) then so be it. It's not like my statements are off the wall or anything. But i explained below, hope you can understand now. 

(clearconceit, utica is not a better team than Cortland or Oswego State for that matter. St Johns Fisher yes, (AS IN YES THEY ARE BETTER) but not Cstate or O-state(AS IN NOT BETTER THAN C-STATE OR O-STATE), as witnessed by O-states MANHANDLING OF THEM IN THEIR HEAD TO HEAD MATCH-UP.


(As for tomorrow this is what everybody wanted, it is clearly the 2 best teams in the league - and it just may be the two best teams in the region)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 25, 2006, 10:26:06 PM
Congrats to Fisher. To put it simply,they were the class of the league all season long. There was never a question.

Congrats to Utica, as well. No shame in being second best to one of the top teams in the region. The Pioneers will likely be one of the top two seeds in the ECAC's. It'd be nice if an E8 team could win it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 25, 2006, 10:54:49 PM
Wow, Fisher played well after jumping to great start with two threes each by  bennett and mcgee and one by biegel to start the game.  A very well played game tonight with an awesome performance again by bennet on cichon.  Tonight he should have charged admission for his course on how to play defense and to avoid screens, while having a great offensive night. 
Great effort by everyone. Fisher was ready to play and time after time they got on the floor and won lose balls.  Mcgee in a great hustle play came up with one even though the utica defender was faster.  Speaking of McGee what a pure shooter he is  His shooting is a shot in the arm and helps distant Fisher from other teams.  Smalt came up with two or three lose balls while falling to the floor but getting rid of the ball to a teammate before travilling and or hitting the ground.
Great job again by O'Brien, who elses' hands would you rather have the ball in.  Kornecker did a nice job tonight going deeper into his bench for another big man Adrien Fenyn who gave some quality minutes.  This was so important as Fisher had several players with 3 and 4 fouls.
So any idea where the fisher will play.  Also any reason why the Fisher girls were never ranked in the top 25 this year?  Thay have had an awesome year and had a great win today
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 25, 2006, 11:01:56 PM
Okay, everyone. Now we have to sit and wait till the seedings come out. I have no clue who will be in Fishers bracket. Any ideas anyone. About Cortland, I wouldn't be shocked if they had to play on the road the 1st round, but I really think they will still "host" the 1st round. Also, I really hope Amherst is not in Fishers bracket this year, if so, then the Sweet "16" will be back at Amherst again.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 26, 2006, 12:33:39 AM
Quote from: notjoshreed on February 25, 2006, 10:54:49 PM
Also any reason why the Fisher girls were never ranked in the top 25 this year? Thay have had an awesome year and had a great win today


Because the E8 was garbage this year on the women's side. Fisher looked average at best when it played outside the conference. Many people look at them as the second best team in Rochester and that was only affirmed when UR handled them in the Chase final. I think it's fairly likely that we'll see a Cortland/Fisher game on the women's side, too. C-State lost in the final today but should get a Pool C considering they're 23-4 on the season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on February 26, 2006, 03:18:09 AM
Neither one of us had a problem with your post, it was your hideous grammer that we were dissing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jbl2006 on February 26, 2006, 08:18:04 AM
Oh i'm sorry about my grammer, by the way is "dissing" a word?  I think not Merriam.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 26, 2006, 09:07:46 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 25, 2006, 10:26:06 PM
Congrats to Fisher. To put it simply,they were the class of the league all season long. There was never a question.

Congrats to Utica, as well. No shame in being second best to one of the top teams in the region. The Pioneers will likely be one of the top two seeds in the ECAC's. It'd be nice if an E8 team could win it.

On behalf of all the Utica posters on this board, thanks for the congratulations. Just like in D1, somebody's gotta be the team that's on the outside looking in. All we hd to do was beat Fisher, and we had three opportunites this season and could not get it done. i hope our record and qowi can get  us an at-large bid into the NCAA's, but if not, the ecac's are nothing to sniff at.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2006, 09:58:03 AM
Budcrew,
Congrats on a good season-and yes the ecac's are nothing to sneeze at!
Clear- You did have 3 shots to beat Fisher and didn't get it done.  Smack talk aside- UC's only real chance to beat Fisher was the 1st game.
Good luck UC in the ecac's and congrats on a really good season. 

Now on to Fisher-Great E8 title, now to make it a great season-string at least 2 more wins together to make the title worthwhile!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 26, 2006, 10:21:40 AM
The difference in the game last night was the start (i.e. the first 5 minutes.) Fisher started with a 12-1 run and ended at 16-4 when Mike Mcgee (seriously, I have not seen anyone with a better shot. He makes it look so effortless) hit a 3 and was fouled. Fisher came out like a rocket with 2 three's from Nick Bennett, 2 from Mike McGee and one from Justin Beigel. (I did not know he could shoot three's) Hey everything was going in for Fisher. I give Utica credit for not quitting. That game could have been over by the half. It was 35-25 but could have easily been 45-25 or worse. The closest Utica got was 7. If you broke the 2nd half into 4 min segments, Utica would get it to 8 but Fisher would respond, Utica got it to 7 but then Fisher gets it to 14 and the game was over. Congrats to Fisher on a 4th count 'em 4th straight E8 title. Good luck in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 26, 2006, 10:26:34 AM
Definitely a downer.  But 3 strikes and you're out.  I think we belong in the tournament but I am not holding my breath on that one.  the ECAC's are an honor but honestly with the team we have and the experience I am not sure some of the guy will be pumped up to play.
I have always felt that the ECAC is like the NIT; great for an up and coming program but not such a thrill for a program that is geared up for the NCAA tournament.

Make no mistake about it, the Utica program is beyond the rising phase.  And hopefully the players feel taht way too!

Fingers are crossed.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2006, 11:24:15 AM
Clear and all of utica, I have to say I think we are all hoping that Utica gets an at-large bid.  but with the recent upsets, Unfortunatly the E8 equals out to the MAAC once again
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 26, 2006, 11:30:54 AM
Hey now, don't go knocking the MAAC. If Iona makes it, they could pull an upset. Don't forget what Manhattan did a few years ago.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 26, 2006, 12:34:13 PM
Utica has a slim chance at getting an at large bid. The NYU last night helped a little. If the East Region gets another at large bid after Cortland, Utica would be first in line to get it. All of the predictions that I have seen have Utica being one of the first 3 teams just outside of the tournament. It sucks getting so close and likely getting locked out.

If you break it down, 50% of our losses are to one team, who is number 1 in the region. Only lost to four teams all year, and one of them we beat the second time around. Finished the season winning 6 out of 7. 21-6 with a 20-6 regional record, and likely being ranked third in the region. But because SUNY Tech, who we beat twice, knocked out Cortland, we suffer. Cortland wins that Conference tournament, and Utica is pretty much a lock.

Utica could get the 1 seed in the ECAC if they dont get in the NCAA. If that happens, they wouldnt be able to host because the Heart Run and Walk is on campus this week.

Congratulations to Fisher, they are the best team in the region and they earned this bid.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 26, 2006, 12:40:08 PM
Quote from: thebear on February 25, 2006, 07:21:22 PM
Unfortunately facts would suggest otherwise.

Feb 7, 2006

@ Oswego

Oswego 63 Utica 49


Had Utica won that game, they would have still been in strong contention for a pool C bid.  With Oswego's record, that was a 13, possibly 15 point win, and Utica knew it.

Oswego's two losses since then were to the 5 & 6 seeds in the SUNYAC.

I like Utica, they have good players and a great coach, but they would be 10-6 or so playing in the SUNYAC.





One bad night for Utica is not good enough to base that judgment on. Especially since Utica fouled nearly every possesion for the last 5 minutes, making what would have been a 7 or 8 point game look worse than it was.

SUNY tech beat Cortland, Utica beat suny twice. Suny also split with Oswego.

Had Cortland been in the E8, they likely would have lost twice to Fisher and Split with Utica and had to play Utica again in the tournament. They may have had a very hard time with a RIT or Ithaca as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jbl2006 on February 26, 2006, 01:10:04 PM
Good points, i only got see Utica agaisnt Oswego, And Cortland swept Ithaca this season, but both games were tight until the end.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on February 26, 2006, 04:00:47 PM
Quote from: jbl2006 on February 26, 2006, 08:18:04 AM
Oh i'm sorry about my grammer, by the way is "dissing" a word? I think not Merriam.

Yes. straight from Websters Free online dictionary.....

dis  (ds)
tr.v. dissed, diss·ing, diss·es Informal
To show disrespect to, often by insult or criticism: "[The network] is often dissed for going after older, less demographically desirable viewers" Michael McWilliams.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 26, 2006, 05:26:36 PM
Here is the staffs predictions of the East Bracket:

1. St. John Fisher
2. Cortland State
3. Baldwin-Wallace
4. Trinity (Conn.)
5. Hamilton
6. Norwich
7. Plattsburgh State
8. Endicott

I'm shocked they have Cortland #2 and why is Hamilton #5? It's interesting that there are northeastern teams in there as well. Tough Bracket, in my opnion. Who will get to "host" sweet 16? Cortland, IF they advance?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2006, 06:02:38 PM
They could give it to Fisher, because Amherst was a lot smaller than fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 26, 2006, 06:06:11 PM
Superman, that would be awesome!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2006, 06:20:32 PM
The only thing I could see there is B-W calling foul because they own a win over fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 26, 2006, 06:41:05 PM
Superman --  it is absolutely not "a lot smaller" than Fisher.  While it is small, for it to be "a lot smaller" than Fisher would mean the bench players would have to sit outside.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2006, 08:39:32 PM
Sorry, BAMM I was overestemating a little bit, but looking at the capacity of their gym it say 1800 and fisher is like 1100.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 26, 2006, 10:31:31 PM
When are the selections coming out? It's 10:30!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 26, 2006, 10:33:15 PM
Clear and UCgrad, what's gonna kill Utica is: 1) The loss at RIT, and 2) The fact they went 1-3 against NCAA teams. While the losses were only to one team, Utica's "body of work" is lacking that "statement win," if you will. I'd love to see two E8 teams but I think the chances are slim to none and I just saw Slim get on the last train out of town.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 26, 2006, 10:42:08 PM
Well.... Fisher, Cortland, Plattsburgh, Hamilton are in. It'll be interesting to see who the rest of the teams will be. Pat Colemans predictions of the northeastern teams getting in our bracket weren't. What does everyone else think???? Still too early to tell, I think.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 26, 2006, 10:47:12 PM
My mistake, Utica also made the NCAA Tournament! Congrats to all the Utica Fans! I didn't think they were going to get in. Wow!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 26, 2006, 10:48:10 PM
WE ARE IN!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 26, 2006, 10:50:18 PM
Congrats to Utica. Like I've always said, my first allegiance is to my team and the second is to the conference. Now go and make the conference proud and don't f@ck this up!!  :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on February 26, 2006, 10:55:56 PM
Okay Utica Fans, what did the NCAA committiee see that allowed your team to get into the Tournament? Just curious. 21-6 come on, they couldn't overlook that, could they?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2006, 11:22:03 PM
YA UTICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, Let's make it a 4th game guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 26, 2006, 11:38:31 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on who Fisher and/or Utica will meet up with in the 1st round?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2006, 11:45:06 PM
what's the possibility that they play each other in the first round
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on February 26, 2006, 11:56:42 PM
Quote from: superman57 on February 26, 2006, 11:45:06 PM
what's the possibility that they play each other in the first round


There's a greater chance that it's gonna be 75 degrees and sunny tomorrow in Rochester.

I just read on the tourney board that they don't match two teams from the same conference unless geography is a factor.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2006, 12:30:33 AM
Juke box have you not been in the 585 this year,  it's 60 one day and -10 the next
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: starstar on February 27, 2006, 12:37:23 AM
Where and who are Utica and Fisher playing? predictions...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 27, 2006, 12:38:18 AM
Congrats to ClearConceit, BudCrew08, UCGrad45, LilEyes and all the other Utica fans.  I was holding out hope the committee would be as charitable to the East region as it has been in years past and it was so.

Go Cards and Pioneers, do the E8 proud!!  Also want to wish good luck to Plattsburgh, Hamilton and Cort...Cortl....Cortland, gaaah that was hard for me to say.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 27, 2006, 12:46:13 AM
I'm gonna go ahead and say that SJF will play one of the New England teams, perhaps Elms, Tufts, UMass-Boston.

I think Utica will play Cortland and Plattsburgh will face Hamilton.  I base these predictions on just about absolutely nothing, just a hunch.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2006, 01:06:52 AM
I think Cortland would be a tough matchup for Utica. Cortland tries to play an "ugly" halfcourt game. I'd love to see Plattsburgh/Utica; two teams that want to run-and-gun.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2006, 07:22:41 AM
WOW!
Congrats to UC!
Now do some damage now that you got there!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on February 27, 2006, 07:42:15 AM
ECAC's

Manual says 500 or better. overall or divisional

Committee is chaired by Mike Lindberg at Ithaca

Committee includes reps from Fisher (NCAA team), Keuka (likely #1 seed) Rochester (likely team), Fredonia (SUNY rep) & Union (likely team LL rep)

Quick pass would suggest:

Keuka
Oswego
Union
Rochester
Potsdam
Brockport
Ithaca
SUNYIT

Criteria:

Quote1. Divisional winning percentage, head–to-head results, results against common opponents;
2. Strength-of-schedule to be determined in part by results against teams selected into the
NCAA or already in the tournament; and
3. Regular season conference standings.
Note: The committee must review all criteria above in the order listed. A team may have an
excellent winning percentage; however the strength of schedule and results against teams in the
tournament also must be examined.

Others in the mix:
Alfred (divisional > .500)
RIT
SLU
Buffalo St
Hobart
Vassar (overall >.500)

Will know later today
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: OneontaBoy1323 on February 27, 2006, 08:21:15 AM
I have been a law abiding citizen of Oneonta, NY for at least five years now. In the past 3 years I have gotten hooked onto Hartwick Basketball and some other selected athletics at Hartwick. I know Hartwick has had their fair share of struggles athleticlly. However, this year I can sense the beginning of a renaissance. Hartwick is very lucky to have Paul Culpo as Head Basketball Coach. He has brought a wealth of basketball knowledge to Hartwick over the past 3 years. Perhaps his greatest strength is recruiting. When he arrived at Hartwick he was forced to find his basketball team out of the study body. Over the past two years he has brought in a lot of kids who have promise. This years recruiting class was Coach Culpo's best by far. When I look at the shear number of rookie of the week candidates on the roster, it only confirms Coach Culpo's recruting success.

This past season has been very exciting to watch and be apart of. Going from 2 wins to 10 wins with a team of mostly freshmen and new transfers is big step forward. I am really looking forward to next season, especially seeing that some Empire 8 basketball teams will be hit hard by graduation. Hartwick Basketball is on the right path back to excellence.

Lastly, if Jan COCOZZIELLO doesn't win freshmen of the year. It will be a crime. Lord willing, I expect to see him back in blue and white next season

Congratulations to Fisher and Utica on making the NCAA tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2006, 08:29:39 AM
OK,
Is anyone else goin to touch this one-
5 years?
:D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 27, 2006, 08:56:01 AM
Here's what the Bracket looks like to me:

1 -  Amherst
2 -  Fisher
3 - WPI
4 - Cortland
5 - Tufts
6 - Gordon
7 - Norwich
8 - Hamiton
9 - Plattsburgh
10 - Elms
11 - Utica
12 - Endicott
13 - Mass-Boston
14 - Bridgewater St

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2006, 09:01:00 AM
I may be dense- How does that bracked read then-
Fisher gets the Norwich/Elms winner at Norwich?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 27, 2006, 09:02:34 AM
No, I'm sure the Norwich/Elms winner will be traveling to Rochester.  Norwich just gets the home game in the first round.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 27, 2006, 09:04:50 AM
I also think Fisher/Cortland/Hamilton should be very happy with this bracket.  There is no one in this bracket that is scary, including Amherst. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 27, 2006, 09:21:31 AM
after first looking at the Amherst bracket. there is no scary pick here. I think Fisher getting a bye in the first round was a huge shock to me. They should get a home game too. There very easily could be a 4th match up between Fisher and Utica. Obviously now you need to take it one game at a time. I really like the part of the bracket Fisher is in though. GO CARDS!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 27, 2006, 09:32:35 AM
Yes, Fisher will have a home game in the 2nd round against the winner of Norwich/Elms.

After the second round, though, if the seedings hold prepare to travel to Amherst again.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2006, 09:33:08 AM
So to me it's looking like if both Fisher and Amherst winout then it will be a decision between the two of them on who gets the home sectional
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 27, 2006, 11:35:09 AM
OHHHHHHHHHHH YYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS!

I was hoping and I got my wish.  I really like our situation.  Gordon is not a power conference team, and WPI - don't know much about but hell I am just ahppy to have the chance.

Could it be a 4th game?????  Fisher has a great draw too.

Lets kick some ass in this thing and help our league get the respect it deserves.

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2006, 11:44:35 AM
There is a good possibility that if each teams play up to snuff, SJF and UC could have a 4th date.

Man that could be a blessing and a curse!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2006, 12:06:25 PM
I would love to see that, just for the fact of what it could do for the E8
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2006, 12:15:44 PM
Great for the E8,
and I hope that it comes true.
Anyway- E8 shouldn't dissapoint-

BTW Utica guys-
The O-D made it a non story that you are in!?
Hopefully it was just overlooked.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2006, 12:28:44 PM
Ah, yes. The Gordon Fighting Scots. A girl I've known since I was very young goes to Gordon. The school is a small, Catholic school in suburban Boston. Unfortunately, I can't get a scouting report because this girl is spending the semester abroad in Thailand. It sucks because she's a big hoops fan and would have probably told me at least a little something about them.

However, it looks like they play a VERY easy schedule. From the looks of it, the only team they played from a decent conference was Emory and Emory beat them. WPI could be a difficult 2nd round matchup for Utica. They went 21-3 this season and played in a good conference. Utica's coach would be smart to get McVean on the phone as RIT played WPI early this season, losing to them 61-56 on a neutral floor.

I agree with the consensus that it looks like Fisher has a nice road to the Sweet 16. That'd be pathetic if they put it up in Amherst again.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2006, 12:35:16 PM
Well 1 P-State or Hamilton need to pull off the upset, and then we are looking logically either Amherst or Fisher, and unlogically WPI or Cortland
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2006, 12:57:05 PM
ECAC's are out. Here are the 1st round matchups:

Wednesday

#8 RIT @ #1 Oswego
#7 Ithaca  @ #2 Union
#6 Brockport @ #3 SUNYIT
#5 Keuka @ #4 Potsdam

Semi-finals will be held Friday night
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 27, 2006, 01:01:35 PM
Very pleased to see the Tigers made it.  Can they beat Oswego twice?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2006, 01:02:00 PM
Four SUNYAC teams ranked above the two E8 teams. Ouch.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 27, 2006, 01:23:05 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 27, 2006, 12:28:44 PM
Ah, yes. The Gordon Fighting Scots. A girl I've known since I was very young goes to Gordon. The school is a small, Catholic school in suburban Boston. Unfortunately, I can't get a scouting report because this girl is spending the semester abroad in Thailand. It sucks because she's a big hoops fan and would have probably told me at least a little something about them.

However, it looks like they play a VERY easy schedule. From the looks of it, the only team they played from a decent conference was Emory and Emory beat them. WPI could be a difficult 2nd round matchup for Utica. They went 21-3 this season and played in a good conference. Utica's coach would be smart to get McVean on the phone as RIT played WPI early this season, losing to them 61-56 on a neutral floor.

I agree with the consensus that it looks like Fisher has a nice road to the Sweet 16. That'd be pathetic if they put it up in Amherst again.

What kind of chance do you think Utica has to get past Gordon on Friday, gb15?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2006, 01:38:10 PM
From what I've heard, if you hit your shots, and shot better then you did on saturday then you can win
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2006, 01:39:08 PM
I very much expect Utica to win that game. They will have quite an edge in athleticism and Utica has played a far tougher schedule (it's rare that an E8 team would be able to say that). I think if the Pioneers don't let Gordon out to a lead early--Gordon will probably start strong--Utica's size, skill and athleticism should be too much for Gordon.

If I had to guess, I'd say Utica wins by 7-10 points. A nice road win for an NCAA tourney game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Knightstalker on February 27, 2006, 02:31:04 PM
 ECAC Selections  (http://www.ecac.org/feature/feature.asp?id=2816)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 27, 2006, 03:30:36 PM
I'm guessing RIT snuck in because UR declined. Can anyone confirm this? Seems like UR would have been in no problem if they had wanted to be.

Maybe they think ECAC's is below them, who knows.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on February 27, 2006, 03:44:38 PM
Fisheralum...
The news that Utica made NCAA's didn't come out till after 10 p.m. so that is probobly why the OD doesn't have anything on it.  Hopefully tomorrow!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2006, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on February 27, 2006, 03:30:36 PM
I'm guessing RIT snuck in because UR declined. Can anyone confirm this? Seems like UR would have been in no problem if they had wanted to be.

Maybe they think ECAC's is below them, who knows.

Agreed. Same way Ithaca used to feel about receiving ECAC bids in football. Luckily, that has changed recently in the years the Bombers missed the playoffs.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 27, 2006, 05:23:19 PM
I would like to congratulate Utica on making the NCAA tournament as well as conference champ ST JOHN FISHER. I hope both schools represent the E8 very well. Utica has a tough game on Friday. From what I've heard and read on the web (D3HOOPS.COM) Gordon has been playing pretty well. (Obviously, you need to play well to win the conference championship). There are a couple things UTICA needs to be careful of on Friday. The first is the trip to Worcester, MA. I know it is shorter to Worcester from UTICA than Pittsford, NY but with it being the first time in the NCAA tournament, the trip might be a little different than if they had been here before. The second is the atmosphere, they need to be aware that this is not just another game like most would like them to believe. I know they have probably played tournament style basketball for 2 months (since the start of E8 season) but you need to be patient and not rush things on Friday. The third is to relax and play your game. You don't want to have a game that you can lose in the first half.

With that being said, good luck to UTICA on Friday night against Gordon and make the E8 proud.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 27, 2006, 05:29:44 PM
Now on to Fisher. I thought that after Fisher won the E8 title on SATURDAY night, they might have gotten a home game but I was surprised beyond belief that they got one of the 5 byes in the tournament. That is huge because Fisher has some players with injuries that need to be healed and it gives them a couple extra days to recooperate. I know, what teams don't have injuries at this time of year. I was also surprised at the side of the bracket Fisher was in. I seriously hope if Fisher does win on Saturday that the Sectional (SWEET 16/ELITE 8) is not in Amherst. I heard terrible things from last year (excluding the game). Ex: the parking situation, the gym is basically thre same size as Fisher and Fisher had to drive 6 hours to get there. That is all in the past but those are things you need to look at when deciding who is hosting 4 teams with a chance to go to the NCAA FINAL 4
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 27, 2006, 06:24:10 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 27, 2006, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on February 27, 2006, 03:30:36 PM
I'm guessing RIT snuck in because UR declined. Can anyone confirm this? Seems like UR would have been in no problem if they had wanted to be.

Maybe they think ECAC's is below them, who knows.

Agreed. Same way Ithaca used to feel about receiving ECAC bids in football. Luckily, that has changed recently in the years the Bombers missed the playoffs.

Did UR indeed decline an ECAC bid, or is it similar to a case like Hamilton last year where they couldn't play in the ECAC's because they are NESCAC members?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: OneontaBoy1323 on February 27, 2006, 06:26:37 PM
EMPIRE 8 ANNOUNCES MEN'S BASKETBALL ALL-CONFERENCE TEAM
Sean O'Brien of St. John Fisher Named Player of the Year

ROCHESTER, NY – Senior guard Sean O'Brien of conference champion St. John Fisher College was named Empire 8 Men's Basketball Player of the Year.  Jan Cocozziello of Hartwick College earned Rookie of the Year honors.  Rob Kornaker of St. John Fisher and Andy Goodemote of Utica College shared Coach of the Year Honors.
   O'Brien, a three-time all-conference first team selection, enters the national tournament averaging 12.5 points per game and leading the conference in assists (6.3 per game) and free throw percentage (90.2 percent).  He hit the game-winning jumper with 1.7 seconds left in overtime to send the Cardinals into the Empire 8 title game.
   Senior guard Justin Cichon, a second-team choice last year, and junior guard/forward Ray Bryant of Utica College were named to the all-conference first team.  Cichon enters the national tournament averaging 15.3 points per game and leads the Pioneers in three-point field goals (61) and free throw percentage (86.2 percent).
   Bryant ranks second in the conference in scoring (18.2 points per game) and rebounds (7.6 rebounds per game) and is shooting 54.2 percent from the floor and 74.6 percent from the free throw line.
Senior guard Jim Bellis of Ithaca College was named to the first team this season after receiving second-team all-conference recognition last year.  He averaged a team-high 18 points per game and also led the Bombers in 3-pointers (51), steals (49), and blocked shots heading into ECAC play.
   Senior guard Fran Snyder of RIT was named to the all-conference first team averaging a team-high 13.1 points per game and shooting 80.2 percent from the free throw line.  He also leads the ECAC-bound Tigers with 34 steals.
   Cocozziello, a five-time Empire 8 Rookie of the week, led the Hawks by averaging 14.8 points and 3.1 assists per game.  He also led the team with 31 steals.
   Kornaker guided St. John Fisher to its fourth consecutive league title to earn Coach of the Year honors for the fourth straight year.  Goodemote led Utica to the Empire 8 title game and its first NCAA appearance in school history.

2006 Empire 8 Men's Basketball Honors
Player of the Year: Sean O'Brien, St. John Fisher College
Rookie of the Year: Jan Cocozziello, Hartwick College   
Co-Coach of the Year: Andy Goodemote, Utica College
Co-Coach of the Year: Rob Kornaker, St. John Fisher College

-more-

PAGE TWO – EMPIRE 8 ANNOUNCES...

Empire 8 Men's Basketball All-Conference
First Team      
Name   School   Year   Position
Jim Bellis   Ithaca   Senior   Guard
Ray Bryant   Utica   Junior   Guard/Forward
Justin Cichon   Utica   Senior   Guard
Sean O'Brien   St. John Fisher   Senior   Guard
Fran Snyder   RIT   Senior   Guard

Second Team      
Name   School   Year   Position
Nick Bennett   St. John Fisher   Senior   Forward
Quentin Bryant   Alfred   Senior   Guard
Joe Canori   Nazareth   Sophomore   Guard
Mike McGee   St. John Fisher   Senior   Guard/Forward
Micah Owens   Elmira   Senior   Center

Sportsman of the Year
Name   Yr.   School      
Chris Lemasters   Sr.   Alfred University
Joe Prunier   Jr.   Elmira College
John Montana   Sr.   Hartwick College
Jeff Bostic   Fr.   Ithaca College
Mike DeBlois   Sr.   Nazareth College
Chris Bocciolatt   Jr.   RIT
Pete Gillett   Sr.   St. John Fisher College
Dennis Munch   So.   Utica College

Honorable Mention
Justin Beigel, St. John Fisher; Jan Cocozziello, Hartwick; Willie Lucas, Utica; Ryan McAdam, Nazareth; Dan McSweeney, St. John Fisher; Dillon Stein, Alfred

-Empire 8-


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2006, 06:35:07 PM
Congrats Sean, you deserve it.  and this is something for everbody to remember, the week of the 3rd through the 11th is fisher's spring break
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 27, 2006, 06:40:05 PM
I hope there are a lot of Fisher fans at the game on Saturday even though Fisher is on Spring Break.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on February 27, 2006, 08:22:53 PM
I'll be there. This happened last year too with Fisher home tourney games during Spring Break.....

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Maq Diesel on February 28, 2006, 09:27:30 AM
Hey, I am a huge Gordon fan and was wondering if some of you could offer some insight into this Utica team we are playing?  They seem to be preety much an unknown commodity up in the NE but if someone could post a little something in the CCC board about them we would love it.  Also for any Utica fans out there Gordon's coach Mike Schauer will be on Hoopsville sometime tonight I am guessing it will be closser to 8 than 11 but i have no idea to tell you the truth.

A little about us.  Gordon is a Christian Liberal Arts school about 25 northeast of boston with roughly 1700 students.  This is our first ever trip to the NCAA and by far our best season ever.  We lost three games one to Salem State which we should have won, one to Emory in GA after a week long layoff during break, and one to our rival and CCC tournement Champ Endictott.  We had an 18 game win streak snapped in tournament semi-finals.  About our team, we are athletic but not overly so, 8-10 guys see game action depending on the team we are playing.  Our starters  are 6' 5", 6' 5", 6' 4", 6' 1" and 5' 10" and our best players are our point guard Justin Kaufman, F Mike Herr (inside/outside) and F Jon Marstaller (post).  Almost everyone on the team can shoot the three ball and we do frequently, though not as much as Utica does from that stats I have seen.  We are a defensive team  by nature and can run and gun but coach Schauer would rather se games played in the 50-60 than the 80-90.  Well I will check back if anyone has any questions but if some Utica fan could post in the CCC board that would be sweet.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on February 28, 2006, 09:51:48 AM
Well,  Ray Bryant is wicked awesome.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 28, 2006, 11:51:39 AM
Guys-
Should we send clear over to the CCC board to rattle some cages?
I think so!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 28, 2006, 12:19:46 PM
that would be funny!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: roy_williams on March 01, 2006, 01:13:11 AM
fisher sucks
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 01, 2006, 02:16:48 AM
Quote from: roy_williams on March 01, 2006, 01:13:11 AM
fisher sucks

Does your name refer to the North Carolina coach who has never won a championship with players he actually recruited and has an eerily resemblance to the cartoon character Huckleberry Hound (seriously, stare at Roy Williams for like two minutes and you'll see it) or the Detroit Lions WR who has hands of fiberglass? Either way, you picked a winner. Moron.

I actually think that kid is a fan of one of the CCC teams that is going to get beat beat beat by Utica Utica Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 01, 2006, 07:40:55 AM
Hey Roy,
Go back to the CCC board.
We have our hands full with other idiots!

Oh- no offense Madhawk.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 01, 2006, 08:20:57 AM
Quote from: roy_williams on March 01, 2006, 01:13:11 AM
fisher sucks

Go Ray!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 01, 2006, 10:03:43 AM
Or maybe his name is just Roy Williams. Why all the anger toward either Roy GB15? Did you make the mistake of drafting Roy in your fantasy football league? Are you a Kansas fan and just bitter?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 01, 2006, 10:21:45 AM
tigerfan, do you want to go to the game tonight in Oswego?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 01, 2006, 10:31:43 AM
Probably not going to make that trip Col, gotta get ready for the big trip to Chapel Hill coming up.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 01, 2006, 10:38:09 AM
Guys,
I know that this isn't the right board- but why no love for Fisher Women's Hoop?
Not even ranked!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 01, 2006, 11:48:23 AM
Quote from: roy_williams on March 01, 2006, 01:13:11 AM
fisher sucks

So does your mom, OOOOOO,

I think that we have the case of Fisher haters, don't hate the player, hate the game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 01, 2006, 01:07:19 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on March 01, 2006, 10:03:43 AM
Or maybe his name is just Roy Williams. Why all the anger toward either Roy GB15? Did you make the mistake of drafting Roy in your fantasy football league? Are you a Kansas fan and just bitter?

Luckily, I only drafted Roy Williams in one of my leagues. He had two very good games, 3 average ones, and either didn't play or played awfully in the other 11. I'm not a fan of him.

No, I'm not a Kansas fan. I'm a Syracuse fan. I truly think if Kansas had almost any coach BESIDES Roy Williams, they would have beat Syracuse in the National Championship. Williams allowing Langford to stay on the floor with 11 minutes remaining and 4 fouls to guard, of all people, Carmelo Anthony, should go down as one of the worst coaching moves in big games in the history of the Final Four.

Look at some of the teams he had at Kansas that couldn't win a National Championship. Paul Pierce. Raef LaFrentz. Nick Collison. Kirk Hinrich. The list goes on of very good college players he had at his disposal and could never get it done. He had a team that was 37-1 for god sakes that lost to Rhode Island in the 2nd round. Rhode Island!

I won't go too much into what happened in last year's tournament. However, I will say if any of the following happened, UNC would not have won the national championship:

-That ref in the Villanova game had the balls to call the "and-1" that he was going to call when he blew the whistle (watch the replay and see how he starts to raise his hand and watches the ball go into the hoop only to then change course and call travelling) that would have put 'Nova up late in the game. Don't even get me started about this call. Unlike any of the Super Bowl calls and similar to the pass interference calls in the Broncos/Pats game, this call DID determine the outcome of the game. If I were a 'Nova fan I would have broke everything in the room at the time. I can't believe the utter terribleness of that call hasn't gotten more pub. This furthers my theory that people only pay attention to bad calls in huge games. If this happened in the National Championship game, people would have talked about it for two months after the game.

-Curtis Sumpter plays in that game.

-James Augustine doesn't exist. I'm certain we will find out in 10 years that he was the center of one of the biggest game-fixing scandals in the history of major intercollegiate sports. I am certain of it.

That said, congrats to UNC fans and I hope they enjoyed their national title. Yes, I do think Roy Williams is an overrated coach. Great recruiter and all, but I don't know how much it helps that he's coached at two of the most storied college basketball programs in the country. His teams always have the fatal flaw that they play little-to-no defense. Don't tell me how well he's doing this year with a young UNC team in a watered-down ACC conference that may be lucky to have two Sweet 16 teams.

I love to go on rants.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 01, 2006, 01:57:22 PM
To respond:

- Travel or no, if Felton isn't given two cheap fouls earlier in the game, they never have to go to Scott and Thomas at the point down the stretch, so bad calls effected both sides.

- Sumpter didn't play. Injuries happen. SU wouldn't have a championship if Wayne Simien played for KU in the finals, end of story. And if KU could hit FT's they would have one, but thats another story I guess.

- Yes Roy Williams had some great teams that didn't win. So did Boeheim in the 80's (Derrick Coleman, Sherman Douglas, Rony Seikaly, etc.) and he didn't get it done.

- James Augestine wouldn't have mattered, there wasn't a player in the country that could have stopped Sean May last year at the end of the season.

- Apparently Roy Williams team's play enough defense so he has the highest winning percentage among all active coaches.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 01, 2006, 02:09:23 PM
Last I checked, this was d3hoops.com
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 01, 2006, 02:20:53 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on March 01, 2006, 01:57:22 PM

- Sumpter didn't play. Injuries happen. SU wouldn't have a championship if Wayne Simien played for KU in the finals, end of story. And if KU could hit FT's they would have one, but thats another story I guess.

- Yes Roy Williams had some great teams that didn't win. So did Boeheim in the 80's (Derrick Coleman, Sherman Douglas, Rony Seikaly, etc.) and he didn't get it done.

- Apparently Roy Williams team's play enough defense so he has the highest winning percentage among all active coaches.


Every person uses that Simien excuse and here's why I disagree. Go back to the box score of that game. Simien's replacement, Graves,  had a monster game. I don't have the numbers near me but I think he had something like 19 and 12. If Simien's playing, he (Graves) doesn't see the court. Could Simien have got those numbers? Maybe. But, remember, we're talking about a sophomore Wayne Simien when he wasn't as good as he became in his junior and senior years. Kansas lost that game because Williams was too stupid to sub out Langford right when he got that 4th foul and because Kansas missed some big FT's in the 2nd half (as did Syracuse), not because Wayne Simien didn't play. You could also say SU won because they had the best college basketball player of the last ten years and G-Mac hit eight 3-pointers as a freshman.

Second, I never said Boeheim was a great coach. I think he's very good. Even as a SU fan, I'll readily admit he's not as good as his record indicates. I'm glad to see he's finally playing some tougher pre-Big East games (9th most difficult schedule this year) but he's definitely built up his resume on cupcakes. That said, he took a program that was next to nowhere when he inherited it and turned it into a perennial power. Nobody can argue with that.

Those SU teams were full of headcases. Derrick Coleman? I don't need to say much about him. He's parallel to Rashad McCants who UNC won IN SPITE OF not because of. Rony Seikaly? Yeah, that guy cared a lot, he retired at 29 so he could go chill on an island with his wife. 63 teams have to lose, I don't always hold it against the coach.

Roy Williams is a good coach when it doesn't matter. I've always thought that. My buddy, a UNC fan, calls him the Peyton Manning of coaching. If you watched him in last year's 'Nova game, last year's Illinois game, and the year before's Texas game, he looks like he's gonna croak in tight games that matter. I'd love to have him as my coach if it was January and I was playing Georgia Tech but I wouldn't want him if I was playing UConn in March.

I could go on for hours about Roy Williams. I've had these feelings about him since junior high when I picked Kansas to win the title in three separate years and they never made it beyond the Sweet 16.

I hate Huckleberry Hound, though I will root for him when they play Duke.

Thanks for the reminder, Budcrew. Last I checked this was a chat room and there were no stringent standards for what is talked about in here. It's Wednesday, we'll talk tourney when it gets closer. That said, my predictions for the ECAC's tonight.

OSWEGO 72  Rit 66

UNION 78 Ithaca 59 (Ithaca will be down double-digits in the first 8 minutes...they're gonna come out flat. Thanks for nothing, Mullins.)

Brockport 88 SUNYIT 85

POTSDAM 72 Keuka 59.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 01, 2006, 02:31:37 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on March 01, 2006, 02:20:53 PM
Thanks for the reminder, Budcrew. Last I checked this was a chat room and there were no stringent standards for what is talked about in here. It's Wednesday, we'll talk tourney when it gets closer.

Ouch. Touche.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 01, 2006, 02:33:05 PM
He still coached well enough to win.  I'd take him over just about every coach in the country, with the exception of Calhoun and maybe Izzo. I would say Coach K, but I may hate him more than anyone on the face of the earth not named Dick Vitale.

I'd like to say RIT will upset Oswego tonight, but I don't see it happening, I think they'll probably be let down from barely losing to Fisher.

I can't see Keuka winning vs. Potsdam.

I haven't seen SUNYIT or Brockport so I have nothing to add there and I've also never seen Union. But I have seen Ithaca, and based on that I say Union wins.

I'm sure Whetstone will manage to get 3 fouls in the first half and Mullins will put some horrible lineups on the floor so IC will manage to get killed on the boards like every game I've seen.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 01, 2006, 03:46:16 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on March 01, 2006, 02:33:05 PM

I haven't seen SUNYIT or Brockport so I have nothing to add there and I've also never seen Union. But I have seen Ithaca, and based on that I say Union wins.

I'm sure Whetstone will manage to get 3 fouls in the first half and Mullins will put some horrible lineups on the floor so IC will manage to get killed on the boards like every game I've seen.

That is what every Ithaca fan complains about. He puts really bad groups of players on the floor at important times. They aren't necessarily bad players but when combined with the other guys on the court, it just makes for a deficient combination. That's usually why Ithaca will be down like 18-17 in the first half then he throws out a lineup like Bellis, Whetstone, Bostic, Scanlon, and Kern. Besides Bellis, nobody in that group will score for you. The next thing you know, the team will have gone on a 10-2 run and the Bombers will be down double digits at half.

That, and he will ALWAYS play the other team's style. This year's team should have been a defensively-oriented team that liked to play games in the high-50's or low-60's and capitalized on Bellis' offensive abilities, as well as potent outside shooters like Burton and Joe. Instead, they play no defense, take quick ill-advised shots or rag the shot clock down to 8 seconds and Whetstone creates something...usually a turnover. And he doesn't adapt to the talent of his team. And he's a terrible in-game coach. Other than that, he's fine.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 01, 2006, 03:53:49 PM
I know Ithaca has some seniors on their squad, but I think Union will have too much for them. They have at least four starters who are seniors and all have now been involved in postseason play all four years, including a second round exit from the NCAA tournament last year when they actually had a worse overall record.

I think Union will get IC tonight, however, the final score depends on how well Union is shooting. Of course, if Ithaca shoots like Hamilton did in the Liberty League title game it won't matter.

As for the other games I think the top seeds will win: Oswego over RIT, Potsdam over Keuka and SUNYIT over Brockport.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: cuse2003champs on March 01, 2006, 08:29:29 PM
Comin from a Fisher fans persepctive who would you want to win the elms/norwhich game, both teams don';t look voerally impressive to me on paper, but who do you think would be an easier mathcup for fisher, also does anyone see utica beating wpi if it coems to it. a 4th rematach would be a barn burner, also im rootin for tufts to get to the elite 8 and hopefully play fisher cuz my kid brother goes to tufts and id be an all out war, any input on ncaas i would lvoe to ehar take care everyone
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 01, 2006, 09:43:12 PM
Ithaca upsets Union tonight, 86-83.

A bit of a surprise, though the Bombers shot very well tonight. They also outrebounded Union by about a 2-1 margin.

Ithaca shot 61 percent from the field, Union 55 percent.

For the Bombers, five players in double figures.
Bellis 17 points, Bostic 15, Scanlon 15, Burton 12 and Andruskiewicz with 10 points.

For Union, Scordato had 28 points and 11 assists, and Caginello had 24 points and finished his career with 2,006 points.

Congrats to IC on the win, now they move on to the ECAC semifinals, and will face Brockport, which upset SUNYIT 91-88 tonight. In other results, Potsdam beat Keuka 81-69 and Oswego edged RIT 84-81.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 01, 2006, 09:50:26 PM
Very surprised by the Bombers win tonight. It looks like there was some ballgames in the ECAC's this evening. It's a good win for the E8 and RIT made a nice showing at Oswego, just coming up short.

Five guys in double figures for the Bombers. Where was this all year, guys? This is the one thing the Bombers have on Utica: they beat Union at Union and Utica didn't. I'm obviously playing, guys, calm down.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on March 02, 2006, 01:01:57 AM
Too bad RIT couldn't pull it off!  Great job by Ithaca.  Our league is the best this year - I really believe it.  I am sick of hearing about the SUNYAC.

Let's keep rolling!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 02, 2006, 08:55:23 AM
Tough one for the Tigers.  Up by as many as 6 in the second half, to down by 11 with 2:40 to go.  They missed a wide open layup with 6 seconds left to tie.  After receiving a technical in the first half for shoving a player, Barrett Zeinfeld puts up 21 points in the second half to carry the Tigers (it's nice to see someone carrying the "hot-headed shooter" torch after Murphy left).  He and Colin Roy brought the Tigers back in the final three minutes.

Solid games from Snyder (11 points, 12 rebounds, 5 assists) and Bacon (18 and 11).  Some very interesting traveling calls on Bacon all game long.  Not a banner game for the referees.

Congrats to Fran Snyder, Drew Martin, and Tyler Springer on solid senior seasons and good careers. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 02, 2006, 10:38:28 AM
And congrats to Ahmad Mims on a great open court dunk.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on March 02, 2006, 09:00:34 PM
Fisher here comes Norwich 82-70. Hensley 24 points
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 02, 2006, 09:07:51 PM
Wow, what a joke job by Plattsburgh tonight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 03, 2006, 07:32:40 AM
Saw the video of the Hamilton PBurg game-
Cards BLOW IT!
Hamilton didn't win- Burg lost!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 03, 2006, 05:38:49 PM
On the women's side, Fisher getting hammered by William Smith. At the half, the Herons lead the Cards, 48-28. The teams are playing at Baldwin-Wallace in suburban Cleveland. In the late game, B-W hosts Oswego. Let's see here, Fisher/Oswego/William Smith all playing in...Cleveland?? Makes sense to me. Gotta love the NCAA.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 03, 2006, 08:30:44 PM
UC beats Gordon College 71-66!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 03, 2006, 08:58:30 PM
Attaway Utica!!  Up next is probably 22-3 WPI, assuming they take care of Bridgewater State.  Good luck to the Pioneers.

Any update on the IC-Brockport ECAC game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 03, 2006, 09:05:19 PM
If Pat or the other scoreboard people are checking in tonight, I know you are all incredibly busy tonight but the ECAC Upstate men's games should be:

Ithaca vs. Brockport, Potsdam vs. Oswego (games at Oswego)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 03, 2006, 09:17:10 PM
Ithaca continues the E8's winning ways, knocking off Brockport, 77-75. Jim Bellis leads the Bombers with 23 points, Sean Burton chips in 12 and Jeff Bostic goes for a double-double with 10 pts and 11 rebs.

Ithaca will play the winner of Potsdam/Oswego. Here's hoping it's Potsdam. Congrats to Utica on their big win tonight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 04, 2006, 08:12:42 AM
Congrats Utica on a nice win.  Every on see Pat Colemans predictions?
They are as follows:

Northeast Regional
No. 13 Plattsburgh State (18-10) at No. 8 Hamilton (22-4), winner to No. 1 Amherst (25-2)
At Cortland State, No. 4 Cortland State (23-4) vs. No. 12 Mass-Boston (18-10), No. 5 Tufts (21-6) vs. No. 9 Endicott (19-9)
At Worcester Polytech, No. 3 Worcester Polytech (22-3) vs. No. 14 Bridgewater State (17-9), No. 6 Gordon (23-4) vs. No. 11 Utica (21-6)
No. 10 Elms (21-6) at No. 7 Norwich (20-7), winner at No. 2 St. John Fisher (24-3)

If Amherst wants to get back to the Final Four, this is the year. There's very little competition for them in this bracket.

Cinderella story: Plattsburgh can definitely win one game, but probably not two, even on a good day. Not sure any of the bottom seeds can win two games.

Most likely to disappoint: St. John Fisher. The Cardinals have lost to the ranked teams (Baldwin-Wallace and virtual No. 26 Randolph-Macon) and beaten the unranked teams. Doesn't bode well.

Who will win? Amherst, over Worcester Polytech.

You gotta believe this will become fodder for the locker room at Fisher.  Norwich is quite an athletic team it will be a challenge to Fisher tonight, cya there
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 04, 2006, 09:07:51 AM
IC will take on Oswego this evening in the ECAC Championshihp Game. Jimmy Bellis hits a jumper with 4 seconds remaining to knock off Brockport, 77-75. According the box score, Ithaca jumps out to a 17-4 lead only to see Brockport rally to take a 36-34 lead into half. The second half was back-and-forth the entire way with about a hundred ties and lead changes. Congrats to the Bombers, I really thought they'd be one and done in the ECAC's. It'll be a tough game tonight, Oswego is very athletic and not the best matchup for the Bombers. I would have much preferred to see Potsdam in that game.

Good luck to Utica and Fisher this evening. Both teams have solid coaches so hopefully they keep the teams from looking ahead at a potential Fisher/Utica IV. Unfortunately, this time the game would probably be in Massachusetts. Boooo!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 04, 2006, 03:20:49 PM
Here's to Hamilton doing the unthinkable, and knocking off Amherst, let's keep the sweet 16 in the good ol NY
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 04, 2006, 09:02:14 PM
There will be a Fisher/Utica IV.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 04, 2006, 09:02:34 PM
Fisher-Utica Part IV here we come, let's hope the fourth one is no different then the other 3
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 04, 2006, 09:08:16 PM
Fisher, Utica Advance To NCAA Sweet 16...Ithaca Wins ECAC Championship...The E8 Reigns Supreme

Congrats to Fisher and Utica!!
Two Sweet 16 teams from the E8 is great news. To put the cherry on top, Ithaca wins the ECAC Championship, knocking off Oswego on their home floor, 61-60.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: roy_williams on March 04, 2006, 10:15:39 PM
empire 8 sucks
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on March 05, 2006, 12:18:19 AM
Yep we suck.  The empire 8 is just that this year an EMPIRE!

Can 4 be a charm?  I am still believing we can do it.  In the end I am thrilled for the league.  Regardless we will have a team in the ELITE8!!!!!!!!

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 05, 2006, 12:55:58 AM
Hey Roy, don't hate, congratulate. I'm sure it probably sucks to be a Gordon fan, huh?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 05, 2006, 08:21:10 AM
Hey Roy get a life.  Last night Fisher was the superior team.  I think fisher jumped out to a 12-4 lead and then cruised from there.  Got to within 4 once but Fisher adjusted and had a real nice win.
O'brien had fire in his eyes last night.  He showed his all american status. He got hot and to his credit came back to himself draining 3 consecutive 3 pointers.  Mcgee continued to amaze us all with his shot. It is so pretty.  Well officiated game.  The officials from out side our region did a good job, letting the players play and not interferring.

A re-re-re match with Utica, Hope we do as well as the last game.  I hear there may be chance that the game wont be played in Amherst but some where in NY.  Anyone hear definately?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 05, 2006, 12:09:45 PM
Quote from: notjoshreed on March 05, 2006, 08:21:10 AM

A re-re-re match with Utica, Hope we do as well as the last game. I hear there may be chance that the game wont be played in Amherst but some where in NY. Anyone hear definately?

NJR, I tend to think that the Regionals will be in Massachusetts. Think about it, the NCAA put it there when there was two teams from ROCHESTER still alive--one who had yet to lose a game and another that was in the top 10 for most of the year. Also, there was a third team from the state alive in Potsdam...and they STILL put in Amherst.

Fast forward to this year. There are two teams alive from NY and two from Massachusetts. Amherst was ranked ahead of Fisher pretty much the entire season and Utica wasn't even receiving votes in the Top 25 for the whole season. Also, there are two teams very close to each other (Amherst and Tufts) that are a short drive from one another. It makes a lot more sense to put in Massachusetts this year than it did last year. Since it makes sense to put it there, many would argue that NCAA will put it NY for that very reason. However, I have a feeling they're going to send Fisher and Utica to Massachusetts.

Once again, congratulations to the Bombers for their ECAC Championship. I'll be honest, I thought they were going to lose each game. I can't believe I'm about to say this but I really liked how Mullins completely overhauled the rotation for this tournament. He took Joe and Andruskiewicz out of the starting lineup, inserting Stahn and Bostic for a much more athletic starting team. Joe's defense and outside shooting is better suited for coming off the bench for energy and instant offense. Andruskiewicz was obviously out of shape the entire season but he still has talent in short bursts. Clemente's defense and Scanlon's grit are also nice intangibles coming off the pine. It obviously worked because Ithaca beat three teams that most would probably assume are much better than the Bombers. I knock Mullins a lot but I have to give him credit for this. It's just unfortunate that injuries to Clemente and Burton kept him from discovering this earlier in the season.

I'm more surprised by Jeff Bostic. The kid hits the winning shot with 7 seconds remaining to help Ithaca beat a very good Oswego team that is extremely tough at home. Even more, Bostic was hardly playing until the last few conference games. By all accounts he was a raw project that Ithaca hoped would grow into something by his junior year. Luckily for the Bombers he's ready now. The kid was the MVP of the tourney, that's unbelievable!!

Now on to the Sweet 16 game (wherever it is). Utica should know what it has to do to win this game. One thing, when playing Fisher, is you can't let them run away and hide in the first 5-10 minutes. Look at their games over the past two years and you'll see the Cards almost always jump on their opponents in the early going. Now look at the games they've lost or come very close to losing. Almost all of those games were close at half. Fisher very rarely plays a close first half only to go on and kill their opponent.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on March 05, 2006, 01:09:13 PM
well it's official, the East Regional will be in Amherst again. For as much as I was hoping Fisher would host, it makes sense because Amherst had a better ranking and QOWI than Fisher. I wish Fisher good luck in Amherst on Friday night
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 05, 2006, 02:23:47 PM
Hopefully Fisher can rid themselves of the thoughts of what went down there last season in the Sweet 16. Specific venues can definitely get in your head. When I was in high school, our soccer team absolutely could not win whenever we played at Spencerport's field. Unfortunately for us, the sectional final was at Spencerport my junior and senior years. Bastards.

I digress, but venue can make a difference. Fisher has to get rid of all the negative thoughts from that gym that they've probably carried with them to this day. I'm sure Utica fans are hoping Fisher goes into a shell when they walk into Amherst's gym. I completely understand that Potsdam beat Fisher, not Amherst's gym. That said, hopefully it doesn't still affect Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Javaman on March 05, 2006, 02:57:21 PM
Congradulations Fisher and Utica fans! I would have never thought both teams would represent the Empire 8 in the Sweet "16". Gametime is at 6 pm. Fisher and Utica fans will your schools have buses sent up to Amherst for the game? I called Fishers school last year and they said that Fisher students come first and if there are any left then non Fisher students. I doubt that will happen since I'm a Cortland Student.  Any ideas? Thanks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 05, 2006, 04:17:26 PM
They say it's hard to beat a team three times in one year.  What do they say about 4 times?  Consider this Mission Impossible staring Ray Bryant.  The Pioneers are hot baby!  Go UC!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 05, 2006, 07:52:45 PM
It wouldn't be the first time Fisher beat a team 4 times in a year unfortunately. RIT was 13-0 vs. the rest of the Empire 8 but 0-4 vs. Fisher last year I believe.

Not having to play at Fisher this time is a big factor though and Utica should really benefit from it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 05, 2006, 08:49:25 PM
The one thing that has to be troublesome to Utica is that the past two games have not even been close, and Fisher travels, Hamilton in 04 can speak to that.  SO I will be at the game being as loud as possible, and Fisher is on Spring Break, so who know how many people will be there
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 05, 2006, 10:10:20 PM
Is fisher gonna make it 4 straight or will Utica finally find a way
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 06, 2006, 07:15:33 AM
4 Straight.
I think that it is great to see both these teams in the sweet 16, and each have done the league proud.
However,
Unless UC comes up with something completely different and can make it work, the results stay the same.
Too many chances for error when you change anything last minute.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 06, 2006, 12:52:39 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 06, 2006, 07:15:33 AM
4 Straight.
I think that it is great to see both these teams in the sweet 16, and each have done the league proud.
However,
Unless UC comes up with something completely different and can make it work, the results stay the same.
Too many chances for error when you change anything last minute.

As they say, "the hay is the barn," meaning what have is what you got and it's pointless to change anything at this juncture. However, you can do other things that could make a difference:

1) Play tougher defense
2) Take smart shots
3) Don't rush on offense
4) Crash the boards

I think UC will need to do all those to come up with the W this weekend. However, both teams have done the E8 proud and, to a lesser extent, so have the Bombers. Congrats to Jimmy Bells, Whetstone, Andruskiewicz and Clemente on finishing their careers in style.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 06, 2006, 12:56:28 PM
GB-
Good point- however you have to remember that Fisher is going to have that same plan.  If it aint broke dont fix it.
4 straight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 06, 2006, 01:23:55 PM
having seen two out of the three games, a lot of it is coaching and decision making, not something I think you can teach in a week,  if Utica wants to win, they have to be either leading or within 3 at the 15 minute mark, they can not let fisher push the lead out to ten,  as soon as that lead hits ten, it becomes that much harder for Utica to win this game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 06, 2006, 01:37:30 PM
agreed!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 06, 2006, 01:55:51 PM
Fisher wins matchup number 4, unless Obrien gets the flue, McGee breaks his shooting arm and Bennett gets drafted and sent to Iraq

Its in the book.

Anyone else at the Cuse game yesterday?  Great tribute to G-mac.  Festivities started off with 20 little kids on the court with orange t shirts with the number 3 on it and the words
Macnamara's Band.  They proceeded to sing him the song.  It was real cute.  After the opening ceremony I am not sure how he found the strength to play.  He had a good game with 29 points and Cuse certainly played better than their last outing but not good enuff to beat Nova.

Go Cardinals
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 06, 2006, 02:04:51 PM
Superman-
Is Brad Delp your avatar?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 06, 2006, 03:20:35 PM
huh? I don't know who Brad Delp is.  Anyone else planning on making the trip to Amherst, I'm home on break and live about 2 hours from Amherst so I will be there
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on March 06, 2006, 03:30:41 PM
If I didn't have work and live 6 hours away I would be there in a heartbeat. I use to live about 45 min from Amherst so the drive is very easy. It is a straight shot down I-90 E to Holyoke (Suburb of Springfield) and then head north on I-91 to Amherst and get off at EXIT 19 off of RTE 9 and follow the signs. Hint on a way to get there if you go. DO NOT take I-87. Stay on I-90. Trust me. It will take out of the way. You need to get back on 90 either way
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 06, 2006, 05:09:08 PM
Fisheralum being a resident of the area of which you are talking IE where I 87 and I 90 merge, I would laugh at you and call you MAd Hawk if you stayed on I90 all the way, they are currently doing construction and it is always slower on I90 then I 87 so stay on I87 and then it's something like exit 21 or 22 that is 90
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on March 06, 2006, 05:29:03 PM
I did not know they were doing construction on I-90.  The reason why I said to stay on 90 is because I used to live in Massachusetts and the drive on I-90 from Rochester to Massachusetts takes us 4 hours (sometimes 4.5 if traffic). Trust me Madhawks I am not.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: met_fan on March 06, 2006, 07:00:06 PM
Whether you take 90 or 87 doesn't matter (not accounting for construction) - they take about the same time either way.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2006, 08:25:20 AM
Delp is the lead singer for Boston.
Looks just like him!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 07, 2006, 09:12:53 AM
Here's Brad today.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bandboston.com%2F_images%2FBoston-Brad.jpg&hash=6236d395ed1e52e27e99f8378670731cb98ad5d7)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2006, 09:42:06 AM
So Bucrew-
Here we are at the crossroads-
In all honesty- good luck.
Either team moving on is fantastic for the leage


especially when it will be Fisher ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 07, 2006, 11:34:05 AM
any of you empire/fisher/utica people ever talk hoops or is all just blogging to blog
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2006, 11:34:47 AM
Hey red go back to the cave you came from!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 07, 2006, 11:41:31 AM
my question was appropriate. it'll be a long ride home,especially since you won't understand why it ended so quickly. talk hoop instead of the grabass b.s. you guys are posting . checked your stuff to learn about the teams , all i get is girl talk
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 07, 2006, 11:51:39 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2006, 09:42:06 AM
So Bucrew-
Here we are at the crossroads-
In all honesty- good luck.
Either team moving on is fantastic for the leage


especially when it will be Fisher ;D

I don't know... maybe Utica's got something for Fisher this time! It's on a neutral court, a longer drive for Fisher than UC and if Ray can put up 29 and 14 like he did against WPI, watch out!
Good luck regardless, and either way a E8 team makes it to the Elite 8, so hopefully one team can get to Salem!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 07, 2006, 11:53:14 AM
Quote from: auerbach on March 07, 2006, 11:41:31 AM
my question was appropriate. it'll be a long ride home,especially since you won't understand why it ended so quickly. talk hoop instead of the grabass b.s. you guys are posting . checked your stuff to learn about the teams , all i get is girl talk
Hey there jabroni... if what you want is some "grabass BS", come over to the football Liberty League board!
http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4010.0
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 07, 2006, 12:08:10 PM
Auerbach, we do talk about Fisher and Utica, but this is the 4th time these teams have played so we are all getting a little sick of tlaking about the two best teams in the league again.  As I said before for Utica to win, they need to not play Fisher (JK)  No for Utica to win 1) they need to hope that Fisher is not on their game, which after Naz and RIT I see that it could go either way.  2) they need to not let Fisher get open 3's if you let McGee shoot an open 3 you will lose, no if's and's or but's
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 07, 2006, 12:35:34 PM
auerbach,  we don't like to talk about basketball.  Sorry you had to waste any time here....     goodbye.

Go Ray!  Don't forget to bring the extension cord for your boombox to Mass.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2006, 12:44:29 PM
Grabass?
I think I can speak for all the E8 posters and say -buh bye -to you!
Moron.
You ben sniffin too many jocks?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 07, 2006, 01:29:36 PM
thanks superman 57....... i appreciate the post. hope your team has some success
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 07, 2006, 02:47:45 PM
fisheralum....... buh-bye ! do you give everybody the schoolgirl send off. c'mon you graduated in '91, act your and gender
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2006, 02:51:59 PM
Age and gender.
Hmmm.  It's a SNL skit you idiot.
Last I checked SNL didn't just cater to women in their teens.
Don't you have something important to talk about -like hoops- on another page?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 07, 2006, 03:59:50 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bigfathead.net%2Fmadden%2Fextra%2Fgirl_talk.gif&hash=4f871b4668e5fc789d7e0dc82831481bd12b2466)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hartwickfan on March 07, 2006, 07:05:56 PM
After watching the E8 all year I'm very impressed by both Utica and Fisher.  Fourth time around on a neutral floor should be a great game.  Congrats to Ithaca on a great season winning to ECAC's and good luck to both Utica and Fisher this weekend.  I'm not too familiar with Amherst although I have seen them highly ranked all year, does either Utica or Fisher have a chance against them?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 08, 2006, 06:19:48 AM
No.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2006, 02:52:17 PM
Nice article in the Utica O-D.

http://www.uticaod.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060308/SPORTS/603080307/1030

Should be one hell of a game!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 08, 2006, 02:57:24 PM
fisheralum91,budcrew,col, where are you guys ? ice fishing,milking the cows ? certainly pretty quiet about hoops. maybe you're smart and don't speak unless you have something to say. if that's the case i won't hear anything from you stooges. if you want talk hoops i'm here. i can tell you one thing i know about amherst..........
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2006, 03:17:47 PM
Hey red,
Save your breath.
We are long past the hick jokes.
And do tell me something about Amherst-I'm sure that we are all dying to know!

Hey budcrew-col-jethro put down the pitchfork- this sombitch gots somtin to say!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 08, 2006, 03:35:27 PM
"You hear people say they want things so much they can taste it, and I never knew what they meant," said (Willie) Lucas, a 6-4 senior forward from Brooklyn. "Now I do. We want that national championship. It's all I'm dreaming about right now."

-From Wednesday's Utica OD

As a Utica alum and a Utica sports fan, this gives me chills to realize how close we really are to a national title.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 08, 2006, 03:37:23 PM
Quote from: auerbach on March 08, 2006, 02:57:24 PM
fisheralum91,budcrew,col, where are you guys ? ice fishing,milking the cows ? certainly pretty quiet about hoops. maybe you're smart and don't speak unless you have something to say. if that's the case i won't hear anything from you stooges. if you want talk hoops i'm here. i can tell you one thing i know about amherst..........

Hey, assclown, some of us have work to do, so we can't post all day on d3hoops.com. For a fact, I know that fisheralum91 and myself are both professionals with all day jobs... (not sure about col -- I don't know that much about him)
So shut up already, jizzbag.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2006, 03:39:36 PM
Yeah,
What he said!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 08, 2006, 03:39:57 PM
I like to say that I professionally surf the internet at my day job.  Actually Red I've been stuck on the phone most of the day with my sister talking about that Bachelor final episode.  I can't get over it!  Can you believe Moana let herself break down like that?!  It's like, hello?? You know this is going on national television right?!

So who plays this weekend?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 08, 2006, 03:40:28 PM
Auerbach, are you insinuating that all E8 fans/alums are hicks? You are aware that 3 of the 8 teams in the league are in the Rochester-area, right? You know, a normal operating city. Probably the state's best behind NYC. Amherst is a thriving metropolis, right?

The reason you're not hearing much chatter about this weekend's games is twofold:

1) As has been mentioned before, this is the FOURTH time these two schools have played. There isn't much analysis left to do between the two squads. Everyone knows it's gonna take an almost perfect game from Utica coupled with a below average effort from Fisher for Utica to advance. That or Fisher starts getting the shakes when they walk in the gym because of memories from last year's debacle.

2)Nobody knows much about the Amherst/Tufts game and there's no point breaking down the likely Elite 8 matchup quite yet. It's only Wednesday.

Re: Col's employment. I know he and Bamm work together and the employment relationship can best be summed up as Bamm does all the work and Col draws pictures of Bamm on the dry-erase board. They can confirm that more than I can.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 08, 2006, 03:41:16 PM
Quote from: col on March 08, 2006, 03:39:57 PM
I like to say that I professionally surf the internet at my day job.  Actually Red I've been stuck on the phone most of the day with my sister talking about that Bachelor final episode.  I can't get over it!  Can you believe Moana let herself break down like that?!  It's like, hello?? You know this is going on national television right?!

So who plays this weekend?

Very nice, col. +1K for you.... although did you have to go with a Bachelor reference?  ::) :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 08, 2006, 03:42:54 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on March 08, 2006, 03:40:28 PM
Re: Col's employment. I know he and Bamm work together and the employment relationship can best be summed up as Bamm does all the work and Col draws pictures of Bamm on the dry-erase board. They can confirm that more than I can.

Hey Col... care to confirm/comment?  ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2006, 03:47:01 PM
Yeah,
I would have preferred an American Idol or Dancing with the stars reference!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 08, 2006, 03:53:24 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2006, 03:47:01 PM
Yeah,
I would have preferred an American Idol or Dancing with the stars reference!

Or Skating with Celebrities... which I did NOT watch, by the way ::)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2006, 03:56:01 PM
C'mon that was some great TV!   ::)
Budcrew- it is an honor to be your big brother!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 08, 2006, 04:04:46 PM
Speaking of American Idol, that's my one "take it for the team" show, as Bill Simmons puts it. If you have a girlfriend, you're in this boat. In the process of checking various odds at online gambling sites, I noticed you could bet on who you think would win this season. I checked the odds, obviously. I've always thought that heavy, black woman (Mandisa) was the best one. If I bet $100 on her yesterday and she ended up winning, I could have one $895. Today, when I checked, if I bet $100 on her and she wins I could only win $163. Talk about missing out on a good investment.

I will now look all over the law school for my testicles.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2006, 04:05:50 PM
Try being married to an Idol fan! :(
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 08, 2006, 05:21:07 PM
I should smite all of you for talking this much about American Idol or any other show where people make idiots of them selves
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 08, 2006, 05:45:07 PM
I'd rather not comment, but I can show you this lovely Where's Waldo parody I drew outside of bamm's cubicle.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bigfathead.net%2Farchives%2F1c-theres-head.jpg&hash=31ae1667fa318970c545f003abf266fc366cec88)

And by "cubicle" I mean, Corporate Headquarters.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 08, 2006, 06:16:19 PM
wow! can I work that job in June
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 08, 2006, 07:54:36 PM
I'm confident in saying that the Waldo drawing, while excellent, is not his best work.  He's got talent folks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 08, 2006, 11:10:12 PM
Yes, I think the Big Fat Head Waldo picture is outdone by the Big Fat Head as the New Year's Eve Ball and the Big Fat Head as a Parade Ballon top that one, although Col or Bamm will have to supply those for everyone here.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 09, 2006, 12:52:24 PM
lot of responses, but no hoop talk. Don't worry we'll send you home just as happy as you were last year. You guys catch anything ?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 09, 2006, 01:02:24 PM
Yeah,
It was like a flu- you.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2006, 01:35:14 PM
Auerbach, your from Amherst, no really,  Go back like twenty pages to find out about Fisher and Utica, we are all so bored of talking about these two teams, I go to Fisher and I am sick of talking about Fisher and Utica, these two teams have already played 3 times with just about the same thing happening each time, Utica needs to play a perfect game and Fisher needs to not think about last year
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 09, 2006, 02:51:27 PM
Auerbach, is Amherst going to send some teams home like they did last year?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2006, 03:18:43 PM
So I have decided to post the Posters of the year, and the all-post team

Poster of the Year-BAMM-Funny, yet knows his stuff and while being an RIT fan/Alumni is able to call it like he see's it.

Posts that make you want to vomit in the mouth the most-(tie) MadHawk, became more annoying than anything else deserves some credit definatly at better team than last year.
-ClearandConceit-tries to make all utica fans look stupid, probably stalking Ray Bryant at night, needs to get a better understanding of basketball.

First Team
BudCrew
GB15
Bamm
TigerFan
FisherAlum91
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 09, 2006, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: superman57 on March 09, 2006, 03:18:43 PM
So I have decided to post the Posters of the year, and the all-post team

Poster of the Year-BAMM-Funny, yet knows his stuff and while being an RIT fan/Alumni is able to call it like he see's it.

Posts that make you want to vomit in the mouth the most-(tie) MadHawk, became more annoying than anything else deserves some credit definatly at better team than last year.
-ClearandConceit-tries to make all utica fans look stupid, probably stalking Ray Bryant at night, needs to get a better understanding of basketball.

First Team
BudCrew
GB15
Bamm
TigerFan
FisherAlum91

Holy crap, I'm actually the first team in something. I think I'm going to have a heart attack  ::) Thanks for the props superman 8)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on March 09, 2006, 03:37:09 PM
I like the post guys, hey Superman, you going to the games this weekend in Amherst??
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 09, 2006, 03:42:17 PM
Superman, I understand,sort of. Do you give Pottsdam any credit for the way they played last year? After all it was a 24 pt. win. I saw the game and Pottstown looked good. Amherst lost the same weekend and had the same complaints as you guys( we shot terribly) but the score was more like you'd expect for a good team on a bad night. Not trying to stir it up but all we hear is how bad you were,surely your opponent showed up.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 09, 2006, 03:49:14 PM
I'd like to thank the academy for this award...

;D

Potsdam- it's Potsdam
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 09, 2006, 04:00:58 PM
fisher alum, i'm guessing you are somebody's sister
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 09, 2006, 04:05:55 PM
Wow,
You really are good.
Let's see 36 year old male fisher alum,
Yep that sister thing fits good.

Are you someone's bitch?

You are now!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2006, 04:06:27 PM
Fisheralum03 I am planning on it as of right now
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2006, 04:09:42 PM
I give P-Dam credit for being a good team, they were not better than Fisher and I will stand to that this day,  Fisher played 28 great games in a row, and they finally beat themselves,  Fisher let the stress get to them and that's that, hopefully they will not let those nightmares of last year haunt them again
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 09, 2006, 04:31:20 PM
ok.... but beating yourself is one thing, 24 pts is another. valid point with all your wins. the team we saw had no chance. your argument about wins stands up, no team that wins 20+ games could be that bad. good luck to you . hope everybody plays to their potential this weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 09, 2006, 04:39:22 PM
Was that an olive branch red?

If so then we will se you in the elite 8!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fpc85 on March 09, 2006, 05:09:15 PM
Which of the four teams in the regional can win with a "B" type game and their opponent plays an "A" game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on March 09, 2006, 05:12:14 PM
no one can, well, now that I think about it, probably Amherst. Fisher, Utica and Tufts would have to play like Syracuse did for 39.5 min today out of the 40 to win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on March 09, 2006, 06:25:35 PM
Folks - I was there at the Fisher/Potsdam game last year.

Potsdam won that game because Jimmy Connelly and Ryan Lynn flat out shut down Fisher's guards (including O'Brien).  O'Brien had 7 TO's in that game, Connelly had 7 steals.  Junior Clayton made nearly every shot he took in a solid 20 minute performance.

Although Potsdam '04-05 had great size, with two solid big guys, Turner & Harris really weren't a factor as they both got into foul trouble and played a combined 33 minutes.

Ducena, Barton, and Mike Brooks made huge contributions off the bench, while for Fisher, McGee and Sidney were 4-19 from the field.  One last point, Fisher's leading rebounder was someone called TEAM (e.g. the zebra's)

I kept arguing all year last season that Fisher hadn't played anyone, and no one would listen. I think this year, the LL has been a little tougher, but Fisher also lost Sidney.

I don't see them beating Amherst at home.  No Seth Hauben or Gabe Perez on this Fisher team.

Play tough defense on the point, get out on the shooters, hit the boards hard, and Fisher should fold like an unlucky poker player.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: senatorfrost on March 09, 2006, 10:48:49 PM
 Whether or not anyone is interested, I thought I would mention a few restaurants in the Amherst area that I think are pretty good. Last year people complained that Amherst didn't serve much food so assuming they won't this year either==

Bub's BarBQ- Sunderland, North of Amherst on 116- Popular place and very good.

Amherst Chinese-My girl likes this place-near Town hall. (Amherst)

People like Panda also.

The Fresh Side=Also near Town Hall. Women seem to like this place so I'll mention it.

Bueno Y Sano Near Town Hall also.-Great Burritos. My Favorite Take out place. You can actually order a Zucchini Burrito and it will be good. (They have Steak, Chicken etc also)

Monkey Bar and Chez Albert- Mid Town Amherst- Never ate in either place but folks say they are both good.

Antonio's Pizza (Amherst) Always busy. Pizza good but not if you want to sit and relax.

Bertuccis-More genteel than Antonios-you can sit and relax and have heathy Pizza.

Rao's-Very good coffee.

NORTHAMPTON-

Spoletos-Nice place-good food,

East Side grill-Pricey and crowded but VERY good! You can say The Senator sent you.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: retired12 on March 10, 2006, 05:13:39 AM
Superman you cant be serious with your last comments on Fisher being better than Potsdam. A 24 point loss on a neutral site should be enough to prove that....Bottom line the Empire 8 is soft and Fisher played scared that whole game. The best team in the history on the Empire 8 was blown out by a Potsdam that was tourney prepared by the Sunyac regular season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 10, 2006, 08:24:20 AM
The Empire 8 is very very soft.  At this point in the season, that is obvious.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 10, 2006, 08:34:21 AM
Well,
Here we are and it's showtime!
I'm here in Pioneerland and the Utica O-D has made the UC boys media darlings.
Great coverage on this site too!

I think I'm the only guy in Utica that wants them to lose!

Anyway- let's hope for a great game - one that Fisher wins!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 10, 2006, 08:34:24 AM
Col... well played.

Superman -- thanks for the prestigious honor.  Looking forward to defending my title next season.   ;D

Hard to go with anything but a Cardinal win tonight, even if Fisher will have to exorcise their demons in that gym.  

I, too, saw the game last year.  Potsdam was a horrible matchup for Fisher.  Extremely physical and quick.  Fisher was unprepared for their intensity.  The Bears were better.

That was last year.  

This year, there are two Empire 8 teams left playing in the NCAA tourney.  There are 0 SUNYAC teams playing.  An Empire 8 team won the ECAC's.  Banner year for the league, really.

As for next season, look for the race for the league title to be wide open.  The cast of contenders will be Utica, RIT, Fisher, and maybe Ithaca and Naz.  I don't see Fisher being the favorite, we'll have to see what they start at the guard positions.  Will be a very interesting year.
 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 10, 2006, 09:05:32 AM
Quote from: retired12 on March 10, 2006, 05:13:39 AM
Superman you cant be serious with your last comments on Fisher being better than Potsdam. A 24 point loss on a neutral site should be enough to prove that....Bottom line the Empire 8 is soft and Fisher played scared that whole game. The best team in the history on the Empire 8 was blown out by a Potsdam that was tourney prepared by the Sunyac regular season.

Alright, I am officially tired of talking about that Potsdam game. Can we just all agree that Potsdam was a tough matchup for Fisher and the game may have been a product of all the pressure building up on Fisher throughout the year. Potsdam was not 24 points better than Fisher last year, but they were on that night. I'm pretty certain, under different circumstances, Fisher COULD have beat Potsdam last year. That said, congrats to Potsdam, they did what they had to do. By no means, however, does that mean anything more than Potsdam was better than Fisher on THAT night and I take exception to Retired12's implications that the victory over the "greatest Empire 8 team ever" has anything to do with a SUNYAC/E8 comparison. Yeah, the SUNYAC is awesome. That's why mediocre Ithaca beat what many considered to be your best team on their home court in the ECAC finals, right? That's why you guys still have two teams in the NCAA's, right? It changes year-to-year and I'm really tired of blanket statements by both sides saying how much their conference is better.

http://democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060310/SPORTS08/603100387/1007/SPORTS

Good article about O'Brien. Read the beginning, I was friends with Ryan Klick and was one of those kids "dominating" him at pickup games. I was two years older and, at that age, that's fairly significant. That said, I never saw him growing up to be as good as he became. Also, check out the thinly veiled shot he takes at Potsdam in the article, essentially saying the only reason Potsdam won was because Fisher played horribly.

Predictions for tonight:

Fisher 72 Utica 66: Fisher comes out lagging a bit and I see a tight one going into half. Fisher will come out firing in the 2nd half to win it.

Amherst 81 Tufts 74
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 10, 2006, 09:17:32 AM
Whats up with Goodemote on the front page of this website.....Is he applying for a job at Fisher or something?? Jesus get off their nuts.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 10, 2006, 09:18:57 AM
GB- thanks for the link!
Good article!
One thing that I will say is this about the whole UC mystique-
I am getting a little tired of the self effacing stuff.
My big brother this and they are better that.

Put up or shut up.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on March 10, 2006, 09:59:01 AM
well everyone, the day has arrived. Sweet 16 day. After today we will be down to 8 teams in Men's D3 basketball. I can't wait for ROUND 4 between Fisher and Utica at 6 PM. Too bad I'll be at work until 7. Thankfully I can listen to it on the internet. If Fisher wins, I'll be on the road tomorrow by 10 on my way to Amherst. GO FISHER!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 10, 2006, 10:07:07 AM
Hey alum 03-
Will there be a webcast?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on March 10, 2006, 10:08:20 AM
Yes, on ncaasports.com
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2006, 10:10:58 AM
D3hoopsNet, under contract from NCAAsports.com, will be broadcasting the entire Amherst sectional. Coverage starts a half-hour before tipoff and includes a preview of all four sectionals, plus in-game "live look-ins" at other sectionals in progress.

Seth Cantor and Paul Schreel on the call.

http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
All D3hoopsNet games are broadcast by Broadcastmonsters.com.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 10, 2006, 10:11:57 AM
Wooooohooooooo!
Thanks!
Didn't want to listen to the UC announcer on the local station if I didn't have to-Total homers!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 10, 2006, 10:34:02 AM
Nice, Seth is calling the game. I worked with him a lot at Ithaca, he's excellent. Very objective.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 10, 2006, 10:36:40 AM
"For us to win, we have to rebound with them," Goodemote said, listing his keys to the game. The most critical stat for us is keeping them off the offensive glass. Second, we have to score in transition. We'll get in foul trouble playing in halfcourt, so we have to get transition baskets against them. And third, we have to keep our poise and composure if a guy like Mike McGee (one of Fisher's top shooters) hits three threes in a row. I have a lot of respect for Coach (Rob) Kornaker (at St John Fisher). He was the first one to call me on Sunday to congratulate me and that was great. St. John Fisher is better than we are. I told our players that we could play them 10 times, and maybe we'd only beat them one. But let's hope this one is that one."


So I think that they are now reading my posts becaues this is what I have been saying all along.  Well I will be at the game today, and most likely there if they win tommorow, so I will try and post later tonight when I get home.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on March 10, 2006, 10:50:00 AM
Superman, why would you go there tonight and then go home (2.5 hrs away) and then back tomorrow. Just get a hotel room and go to the basketball hall of fame or something like that tomorrow if Fisher wins instead of wasting gas. I understand it would be cheaper to drive there and back each night but why drive when you are tired tonight
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 10, 2006, 11:12:00 AM
Me=College Student=CHEAP
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on March 10, 2006, 11:20:54 AM
that's true, I remember those days

good call
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 10, 2006, 11:21:18 AM
Superman,
You will be spending the same(depending on the motel)amount of cash for your extra gas as the motel.
What the hell-live a little-hook up with other Card crazies and have some fun!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 10, 2006, 11:37:37 AM
I wish I could but I like my own bed
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 10, 2006, 11:44:03 AM
I here you there!
Are the beds at fisher still 1/2 of a twin?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on March 10, 2006, 03:28:40 PM
I have a good feeling for Utica and this game tonight!! Go UC!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 10, 2006, 03:31:31 PM
Go Ray!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 10, 2006, 03:32:12 PM
Quote from: lileyes on March 10, 2006, 03:28:40 PM
I have a good feeling for Utica and this game tonight!! Go UC!!

I just want the game to be competitive to the end and for Utica to have a chance to win it at the end. :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 10, 2006, 04:47:19 PM
Utica 73 Fisher 69....The Demons of Amherst are just too much for Fisher to overcome...Goodemote takes Fisher job after the game. Ray Bryant becomes player/coach and leads team to National title. you heard it here first.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 10, 2006, 05:15:36 PM
Is anyone else nauseated at the possibility of Utica fans coming out of the woodwork if they win tonight, claiming they were better than Fisher even though they lost 3 of 4 to them? I'm going throw-up on myself just thinking about it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bearseh on March 10, 2006, 05:26:38 PM
o worries. At the risk of a Big East analogy, SU beats UC, but Utica does not beat SJF. UC has used its quota of miracles to get this far. The Pioneers are not nearly as good as their fans contend and may be worse than the SJF faithful believe.

What I find disturbing is that Madhawk has been trumped by Ulf. Does insanity and inanity know no bounds?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: cuse2003champs on March 10, 2006, 06:14:45 PM
i'm gettin no audio or anythign from this d3 hoops broadcast, this is reall sorry, anyone else experiences this. CUSE HOOPS + FISHER =OWNERSHIP
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 10, 2006, 06:21:40 PM
bearseh - To be honest I don't know who's worse.  At least I get the feeling that Mad Hawk knows he's crazy.  Ulf seems to believe his bullsh*t.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on March 10, 2006, 06:49:33 PM
No need to come out of the wordwork if we hang on (up 1 at half).  This is what it si all about.  To be in this position.  Yes they beat us 3 times and yes they may be the better team but this game is the one that counts the most.

Utica is for real and we are going to near the top for a while to come.

Go PIONEERS!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 10, 2006, 07:14:53 PM
I just turned it on and Fisher was up 12 pts and Bennett hits a 3ptr to put it up to 15.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 10, 2006, 07:21:07 PM
78-59 Fisher a few minutes left.......4th time isnt a charm....Ray Bryant certainly no big game Ray.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 10, 2006, 07:40:47 PM
86-78 Fisher leads 1:30 left.......Utica making a very valient comeback but looks like they will run out of time.....Sean O'Brien has Mcnamara size balls he hit a huge shot to kill a rally at the shot clock buzzer basically falling down to the floor. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on March 10, 2006, 10:06:09 PM
4-0 that is the deal.  As I write this Tufts is winning.  If Tufts holds on I believe Fisher is definitely going to the Final 4.  Tufts is not as good.  I saw the regional games in Cortland and Tufts would have been a 4th or 5th place team our league.

I hope you kick ass Fisher!!!!

Go E-8!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on March 10, 2006, 10:07:30 PM
it looks like it will be tougher tomorrow with Fisher vs Amherst. Thanks for the compliments Clear. Your team is going to be great for years to come
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hartwickfan on March 10, 2006, 10:15:02 PM
Congrats to utica on a great season.  Hopefully Fisher can exorcise those demons from last year and shut up some of these new idiots posting on the board lately,  Good luck fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 10, 2006, 10:44:13 PM
If your going to the game tommorow get their early, the place is going to be packed. Great game,  Utica's fans need to grow up, a few of them wanted to fight me
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 11, 2006, 02:28:14 AM
Quote from: superman57 on March 10, 2006, 10:44:13 PM
If your going to the game tommorow get their early, the place is going to be packed. Great game,  Utica's fans need to grow up, a few of them wanted to fight me

I saw that, some obnoxious utica fan came right over and tried to pick a fight as the game got started. Fortunately cooler heads prevailed and the rent a cop gave him hell when he returned to buds from utica.  Gobomber, nice predictions on tonights game.  Actually Ray Bryant did play a good game esp the first half.  O'brien did have a real good game and that shot mentioned earlier was awesome as he contorted his body flying out of bounds.  i think the Utica player kicked him on the inbound play but was one of the many fouls missed by refs tonight.  First half it got obnoxious as the refs were calling every touch on fisher and missing most on Utica.  Nice game tonight by Auman.  Smalt a nice job tonight with 12 points, he is so patient inside and scored a couple behind the backboard fadeaway shots as he always gets a good look at the hoop before he lets the ball fly. Fenyn did a nice job in relief in the first half as well with 6 points.

The things you see when you dont have poster board and a magic marker.  One of the utica Buds had a sign with the names Gordon, then WPi each with a line drawn through it and then Fishers name next.  I would have loved to counter with Utica, Utica,Utica, with line through them  and then a fourth time and draw it in at the end of the game.

Nice comeback by Utica at the end.  Good game plan, it was basically cover Mcgee like glue, Inbound and get the ball in transition real fast catching fisher slow at getting back, and pay the refs off to attempt to get Fisher in foul trouble.

Watched first half of Amherst/Tuffs, fast hard game, amherst will be tough tomorrow especially with the loud big croud that was there tonight. 

Congrats fisher for reaching the elite 8
Night

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 11, 2006, 07:00:44 AM
Wow, I didn't even remember that one, I was thinking about in the parking lot before the game, and in the concession line at halftime
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 11, 2006, 09:48:50 AM
After a second trip to Amherst in two years I realize how political the D3 site selection committee is.  I have no qualms in Fisher going to Amherst this year.  What an advantage this give the home team.
There is now way that last year three New York teams should have had to leave NY state for last years sweet 16.  A belated shame on you to last years site selection committee
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: cuse2003champs on March 11, 2006, 10:55:31 AM
I will be in Amherst to hopefully watch fisher win, then a bar to hopefully watch cuse win, if anyone who was their could give me some advice on if i shoudl take 87 at all along with where to sit, when to get their for tix, and what bar to go to afterwards for cuse would be much appreciated, great yr for the empire 8 and college basketball
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 11, 2006, 11:59:12 AM
Cuse, yes go 87 to exit 21, if your a student you'll see us, hopefully Bob Ward will get us our under the basket seats again, if not the Fisher Section was right behind the Fisher Bench.

Now onto the game,  I have to say Bob Ward deserves a round of applause, he made right sure that the students were behaved and happy, he got us the under the basket seats and then when an elderly gentlemen started to make a little bit of trouble with us at the end of the game he was there real qucik, nothing happend we just started to talk with guy.

The refs in the first half made me want to vomit, they were horrible, fisher had 7 fouls before Utica had 2, had Utica was playing particulary rough.

It should be a very loud game tonight

and now my last rant.   Move these games to a neutral site!!!!!  First and second round games in home gym's fine but there is no reason that a game this important should be in a home gymnasium, if fans are dedicated they will travel.  See the 2003 east regional at the Pepsi Arena, I was there and that entire upper ring was all Orange.  Let these teams fight it out in a neutral gym in the middle of the two schools,  I say for example some place like the Glens Falls Civic Center where they hold the high school state championships
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 11, 2006, 12:04:56 PM
Congrats SJF!
Keep it going!
Great season UC- no reason to hang your head.

On to the elite 8!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 11, 2006, 12:46:47 PM
LET's GO FISHER

come on if there are any E8 fans in the area of Amherst get to that GYM and cheer on Fisher as much as you may hate fisher imagine what it would do for all of our recruiting and the E8 if Fisher goes to salem
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 11, 2006, 01:24:24 PM
Good post superman, Bob Ward was on top of things again last night and kept everyone in check.

You are 100% correct about these games being held at a neutral site.  The Pepsie arena in Albany would have been a great choice but I am sure there are many others that would allow the teams to play to their potential.

Refs were bad.  I saw bennet go flying to the floor with one of many illegal screens with no calls.  In the second half Biegel set a perfectly legal screen that the ref called as a foul.  You would have thought they were out to get Fisher last night and in fact took us out of our game in the first half.  I would expect more of the refs at that level

Go fisher tonight
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: billwolf on March 11, 2006, 05:06:57 PM
Quote from: notjoshreed on March 11, 2006, 09:48:50 AM
After a second trip to Amherst in two years I realize how political the D3 site selection committee is.  I have no qualms in Fisher going to Amherst this year.  What an advantage this give the home team.
There is now way that last year three New York teams should have had to leave NY state for last years sweet 16.  A belated shame on you to last years site selection committee
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: billwolf on March 11, 2006, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: notjoshreed on March 11, 2006, 09:48:50 AM
After a second trip to Amherst in two years I realize how political the D3 site selection committee is.  I have no qualms in Fisher going to Amherst this year.  What an advantage this give the home team.
There is now way that last year three New York teams should have had to leave NY state for last years sweet 16.  A belated shame on you to last years site selection committee

Okay...help me out.  With Fisher in the final 8 why should they play Amherst in A's home arena?  I'm a rookie.  Shouldn't the final 8 and beyond be played on neutral ground?  Who makes these decisions.  I believe it's time for a change.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: billwolf on March 11, 2006, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: notjoshreed on March 11, 2006, 09:48:50 AM
After a second trip to Amherst in two years I realize how political the D3 site selection committee is.  I have no qualms in Fisher going to Amherst this year.  What an advantage this give the home team.
There is now way that last year three New York teams should have had to leave NY state for last years sweet 16.  A belated shame on you to last years site selection committee

Okay...help me out.  With Fisher in the final 8 why should they play Amherst in A's home arena?  I'm a rookie.  Shouldn't the final 8 and beyond be played on neutral ground?  Who makes these decisions.  I believe it's time for a change.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 11, 2006, 07:49:38 PM
Ouch  Fisher behind 44 to 27 at half with Amherst hitting many threes and fisher hitting only one of nine or 10
Does not bode well for the empire 8
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on March 11, 2006, 07:57:03 PM
Amherst has hit there threes and fisher hasn't. That is not the only difference in the game trust me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 11, 2006, 08:27:13 PM
sad to hear, Mcgee out, Obrien out, now Bennett game over with 2 minutes left .
More later, end of an era at fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 11, 2006, 08:31:17 PM
93- 70 ouch
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on March 11, 2006, 08:32:16 PM
I would like to congratulate Fisher on a fabulous season. They have NOTHING to feel ashamed about. They ran into a team that shot lights out. Congrats to Nick Bennett, Sean O'Brien, Pete Gillette, Raymie Auman and Mike Mcgee on Incredible careers at Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 11, 2006, 09:48:14 PM
blah blah blah Empire 8 goes down again this conference will never have another Elite team perhaps can make an Elite 8 field courtesy of a subpar bracket and a couple of home games but here is the fact........They E8 will ALWAYS have to win in Massachussetts if they want to prove themselves and its something our rep just isnt able to do (not only have they lost in the same rednick town back to back years they have blown the fook out).....PLAIN AND SIMPLE.....this conferecnce perhaps may have some bragging rights over the Yac and the LL but other than that we are just small peas in a much bigger pod and will never feel the Craig Jones RIT prominence of early 90s again
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Amherst95 on March 12, 2006, 12:03:40 AM
After much reading I finally registered just to say this to Fisher fans:

You guys are all class.  Come on down here any time.  I hope in the future we'll schedule a home and home so we can come on up there too.

But in the meantime GO JEFFS!  (Gotta be me.)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2006, 04:53:44 AM
Quote from: billwolf on March 11, 2006, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: notjoshreed on March 11, 2006, 09:48:50 AM
After a second trip to Amherst in two years I realize how political the D3 site selection committee is.  I have no qualms in Fisher going to Amherst this year.  What an advantage this give the home team.
There is now way that last year three New York teams should have had to leave NY state for last years sweet 16.  A belated shame on you to last years site selection committee

Okay...help me out.  With Fisher in the final 8 why should they play Amherst in A's home arena?  I'm a rookie.  Shouldn't the final 8 and beyond be played on neutral ground?  Who makes these decisions.  I believe it's time for a change.

This is the way Division III is, and the way it has been. If Fisher had earned homecourt advantage with its season-long play I believe it would have gotten it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2006, 04:55:05 AM
Quote from: cuse2003champs on March 12, 2006, 01:12:58 AM
fisher is msotly made up of kids from alleghany cpunty, my complaint is simple ...

Don't come here with random allegations you can't prove.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hoopandtheharm on March 12, 2006, 08:54:41 AM
First off hats off to Amherst. 54% from three - that's sick! They deserved the win and if they play like that they will reign in Salem too. I don't think anyone can say this Fisher team underacheived or dissapointed.

Reggie - get your facts straight. The deepest RIT ever went, with or without Jones, was the Sweet 16. I beleive this is the deepest an E8 men's team ever played in post-season. How can you knock a team for bowing out in the Elite 8. We all want the national championship and defintely are idssapointed but to act like this was no accomplishment is ignorant. And exactly how does MA own Empire 8? UC beat Gordon and WPI, two MA teams they were expected to lose to. Amherst owned Fisher last night and that's the extent of it. Our league may not at the level of NESCAC in hoops this year but there's no shame in that.

E8 is on the rise. Where was Utica six years ago? They are now a Sweet 16 team and a couple of big men away from even greater things. Nazareth is on the way up, Hartwick too. RIT is still competitive. This league, while not elite in hoops, is on its way up no doubt.   
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 12, 2006, 09:50:45 AM
Im just a hater. Congrats to Fisher on a decent season. I apologize for screwing up my facts I thought Jones senior year team went to the final four. But I was smoking a lot of dope at that time so perhaps I imagined it. and I dont want to hear about Utica upsetting Gordon or WPI until an Empire 8 team can beat a Nescac team in the dance we are OWNED by Massachusetts.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 12, 2006, 10:21:43 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2006, 04:53:44 AM
Quote from: billwolf on March 11, 2006, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: notjoshreed on March 11, 2006, 09:48:50 AM
After a second trip to Amherst in two years I realize how political the D3 site selection committee is.  I have no qualms in Fisher going to Amherst this year.  What an advantage this give the home team.
There is now way that last year three New York teams should have had to leave NY state for last years sweet 16.  A belated shame on you to last years site selection committee

Okay...help me out.  With Fisher in the final 8 why should they play Amherst in A's home arena?  I'm a rookie.  Shouldn't the final 8 and beyond be played on neutral ground?  Who makes these decisions.  I believe it's time for a change.

This is the way Division III is, and the way it has been. If Fisher had earned homecourt advantage with its season-long play I believe it would have gotten it.

Pat you are right about this year Amherst earned the home court advantage over Fisher, however last year with Fisher being undefeated, even with a weaker strength of schedule, and with two other New York teams in the bracket, the game should have been in Rochester and not Amherst.

The other though on that is after seeing the effect of a huge crowd on the playoff; I think the sweet 16 ought to be played at a neutral site.

This all being said it is water over the damn.  I made the trip to Alfred a month or so ago and watch an inept Fisher pull out a Victory.  I knew that others looked at us as the
elite of the empire eight but in my soul I did not think we compared to last years team.  Since the Alfred game, Fisher had a tremendous run.  They peaked going in to the Playoffs and proved that they deserved to represent the Empire eight in the NCAA's.  They came together as a team and made themselves and the Fisher community proud. 

The seniors are a proud and dedicated bunch and will be missed next year.
O'Brien, who else but he, would you like the ball in his hands.  During the last stretch, he controlled the team and re found his offensive skills; he has been fun to watch.
Bennett, I am still convinced that he is the best defender in our league and has fire in his eyes when he plays.  He also contributed nicely on o hitting some key threes down the stretch. 
McGee, a pure shooter, so fun to watch and was so key to this team's offensive success.  A couple of great blocked shots and key rebounds down the stretch.
Auman, saved his best for last having a great playoff run, great vision and hustle and a on court and of court presence as a player/coach.
Gillette, a class act, made up for his smaller size with, hustle, vision and moxy.   Was totally aware and opportunistic on the court both with shots drives and rebounds when you least expect them.  Deserving of the sportsman of the year bestowed on him by the Empire Eight

Kornacker a nice job of bringing this team together and having them reach their potential.  You will miss this group of seniors
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 12, 2006, 10:32:00 AM
I think that no game that big should have been played on a home court, not Fisher's, not Amherst's find another D3 school in the middle and let them go at it.  Amherst's fans were incredible and that place was rocking, but for a game that big should the conference you play in depect where the game is, maybee sectional should have been in MA, because they were the best team, but what about putting it someplace that isn't your own home court.  Thirdly my other suggestion, is give the whole weekend to the team that won it the year before, that way if they are consistant to make it back then they will be rewarded, if not you are rewarding a school with some money for doing a good job in the year before.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 12, 2006, 10:33:02 AM
Now on the other hand if Amherst shoots the way they shot last night they will be cutting down the nets in Salem, that was incredible, they could not miss, even when they tried to miss it went in
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reality check on March 12, 2006, 04:31:46 PM
Just a technical note, for those calling for neutral sites in the second weekend of the playoffs...

If you were to pick a neutral site, there are four teams to consider and not just two as was mentioned earlier.  Picking a site in between all four schools would be slightly more complicated but not impossible by any means.  Would it need to be a Division III venue or just any venue capable of hosting?  I honestly don't know.  If it needs to be a D-III venue then the one that seems most central ends up being Utica and you're back at square one. 

I think keeping the game at the highest seed's venue is logical at the D-III level.  It's fine with me for football and it's fine with me in basketball but that's just one person's opinion.  To each his own.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on March 12, 2006, 05:20:05 PM
Can anybody give me a web site with the list of sectional players? all levels. I would like to look at it myself.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 12, 2006, 06:00:06 PM
Congrats to the young men from St. John Fisher. They never quit. The Amherst win had nothing to do with home court or shooting percentage or any of the other reasons posted . If any of you saw the the Amherst -Tufts game you would have realized what it takes to beat Amherst. Tough quick  defense . St. John had a hard time with the hand in their face and the body in front of them from the start to the finish. They were jittery early and it lasted too long. Nice team but overmatched. Don't think Amherst is going to repeat when they head south. They will meet their match and more,they will have to step it up. Tufts dominated the boards . If they repeat that lack of production on the hardwork side of basketball they'll be coming home empty handed. Don't like teams so dependent on three's and big runs. they are a good team but they have weakness.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 12, 2006, 06:04:18 PM
I'm sorry if Amherst hadn't shot the lights out the game would have been closer, Fisher was also missing wide open 3's something they never do
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: nescachoopsfan on March 12, 2006, 07:33:52 PM
the thing that makes nescac teams different than teams i have seen throughout the country, is their ability/dependency to shoot the 3.  you have to play them differently than most other teams you play against.  amherst is going to shoot at least 50% from beyond the arc, especially if you arent keying in on stopping their shooters (which is basically their whole starting 5, minues the center).  rarely do you see a team that would rather drive and kick for three, than drive to the rim.  its a different style of play and if you werent ready for it, teams dont stand a chance against amherst.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: nescachoopsfan on March 12, 2006, 07:36:43 PM
also, i think the game saturday did not help the case someone made that tufts would finish behind utica and st johns fisher in the empire 8.  i know that you cant say just because one team beats another and on and on, but that shows you how good amherst is, and how good tufts is that they should have beat amherst on their home court twice. (for those unfamiliar with the nescac, in the tournement championship game amherst hit another borderline miracle shot to put the game into overtime and ultimately defeat tufts)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: senatorfrost on March 12, 2006, 07:58:23 PM
Tufts, Amherst, Trinity in my opinion all about the same as far as talent is concerned. I might add it was a pleasure being in the same gym as the folks from Fisher for 2 nights. I had a question or two and they politely took the time to give not only answers, but thoughtful ones. I speak of those directly involved with the team by the way. A nice bunch.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 13, 2006, 07:36:31 AM
Congrats to Fisher!
Great season!
To the seniors-thank you and good luck!
Wow- ran into a buzz saw in MA!
Good luck Amherst in the final 4!

And good riddance to Reggie on this board!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 13, 2006, 10:11:52 AM
The Amherst buzz saw thanks you!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 13, 2006, 10:35:55 AM
Just keep winning.
At least SJF would be able to say that they lost to the eventual NCAA champs!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 13, 2006, 01:20:55 PM
it was a great year for your team , keep your head up
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: assassin on March 13, 2006, 03:19:40 PM
Congrats to the E8 on it's best season as a whole in quite some time!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on March 13, 2006, 03:54:52 PM
Word on the street is that there will be an additional team to the Empire 8 next season.  A NJ team at that, which will make for some pretty long road trips!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 13, 2006, 04:18:12 PM
What??!?  What NJ team?  And where did you hear that?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: auerbach on March 13, 2006, 04:21:06 PM
rutgers
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on March 13, 2006, 04:44:39 PM
I have an inside source with the E8...or shall I say E9??  It should be announced tomorrow that there will be some new Ducks in the conference!!  :o
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hoopandtheharm on March 14, 2006, 07:43:22 AM
I guess it was true, Stevens to join Empire 8!

http://www.empire8.com/031406-1.html

Stevens has decent hoops but their soccer and lacrosse programs are great!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 14, 2006, 08:25:29 AM
What in the holy hell is a NJ team doing in the EMPIRE 8?
Upstate NY!
Regional.
Now you are talking about tavel woes, and taking the very premise of the E8 and trashing it.
That my friends is a huge load of crap.
The E8 ruling bdy should be ashamed.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hoopandtheharm on March 14, 2006, 08:39:22 AM
That was my initial reaction too but slow down and think about. Every single team in E8 and any conference plays mutliple out of state games, Naz played Old westbury, Pitt bradford.... This will just be a conference game and that is more important than some out of region game that has no impact on tourney selection. I don;t think it imapcts budgets at all considering this. Plus it is actually a normal trip for Hartwick and Utica and not so bad for Ithaca, Elmira. Stevens has an incredible academic profile, almost a 1300 average SAT! Great athletic programs. I think it's a step up. They may not have the best hoops teams, they are improving, but this gives them many other great conference sports.

But maybe you'd prefer a Keuka or Cazenovia since they're in state! 950 SAT's and sub-par athletic programs. There is no comparison - peel away a layer or two and its a good move
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 14, 2006, 08:55:32 AM
Hoop and harm- I get what you are selling - but understand that this will affect all sports except football.
All mens and womens programs.
Yes they travel to non conference games-but that is the treat- nonconference!
Test yourself outside the norm.
This has much bigger implications than just travel.
No I don't want to sell out and grab onto Caz or someone of that caliber, but really what gives that this college is that desperate to join a conference so far out of their own region? Is it that or is the governing body of the E8 looking to pad the numbers?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 14, 2006, 09:40:29 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 14, 2006, 08:55:32 AM
Hoop and harm- I get what you are selling - but understand that this will affect all sports except football.
All mens and womens programs.
Yes they travel to non conference games-but that is the treat- nonconference!
Test yourself outside the norm.
This has much bigger implications than just travel.
No I don't want to sell out and grab onto Caz or someone of that caliber, but really what gives that this college is that desperate to join a conference so far out of their own region? Is it that or is the governing body of the E8 looking to pad the numbers?

i think part of it is that the E8 will get an AQ in field hockey in 2008. I also think it is a good move on the e8's part because it will give them a chance to really test themselves in many different sports. I think it will be a really good thing for all the schools in the E8... too bad they don't have football.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 14, 2006, 09:48:17 AM
Hey Budcrew!
Do you really think this is a good thing?
Man, I am a really tough sell on this one!
I'm not so blind that I can't see the plusses, but boy does it ever change the fabric of the E8.
When I played at Fisher the road trips to the non conference games were a blast, and you could test your metal, but they were taxing- getting enough sleep-study time etc.  Now throw a conference team that is 6+hours away from Utica-7.5 for Roch-
That is a long bus ride!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hoopandtheharm on March 14, 2006, 10:08:44 AM
FisherAlum -

Once again you got me. I thought holy crap 7.5 hrs, then I looked on Mapquest and you are clearly smoking crack! This ain't the 90's anymore and Fisher is not an independent as they were when you played there. Utica to Hoboken is not 6 hours nor is it 7.5 from Rochester! Rochester to Hoboken 5:38 and Utica to Hoboken 4:01, Hartwick to Hoboken 3:39 which is about the same as a trip to Rochester.

We're all entitled to our opinions but at least get your facts right.

The fact is the best institutions play the best institutions. I would bet the top E8 members are very excited about it becuase of the competition. Stevens is in a weak conference right now and E8 is a tremendous upgrade for them and offer great competition for the empire. Plus, there are tons and tons of alumni donors in the NYC/Metro area and you better believe the presidents and AD's thought of that! As a former coach, this would be a great opportunity for an expanded recruiting base too.

Just my opnion but I do not think it is uncreasonable they way you feel but I respect that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 14, 2006, 10:18:25 AM
Hoop,
My drive times are clearly off-
Was guessing.
Even still, being the stubborn man that I am-change doesn't come easy for this old alum especially on conference structure.
Sorry 'bout the drive times-I admit those are whacked, but still I think I am making a somewhat reasonable point.
Arent I?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hoopandtheharm on March 14, 2006, 10:30:26 AM
I can understand your point at first glance but when you look at it closer it makes a ton of sense, in my opinion. What years did you play? 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 14, 2006, 11:08:43 AM
Didn't play hoops-Soccer.
87-91
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 14, 2006, 11:10:56 AM
I think it will be interesting to see how this effects the scheduling. Right now it really is pretty well set up with the partner system, but with an odd number of teams in the league, that will really throw things off. Will the Rochester teams do a Fri/Sat in Utica/Hartwick then a Tuesday in Hoboken?

Another question is what games will the existing teams need to drop to fit the 2 additional conference games in the schedule. Obviously the Rochester schools are not going to give up the Chase but I liked the fact that RIT went out and played some other NY schools from out of conference as well. Typcially they would play one Liberty school (usually Hobart), a SUNYAC school (Cortland for the last couple years) and UR. I'm guessing the UR game isn't going anywhere but it would be a shame if they had to drop those games vs the likes of Cortland to fit these games in.

Furthermore, in terms of the level of play for Stevens, how have they been doing the last couple of years? Will this be similar to bringing in a team like Hilbert or Caz, or will they be able to step in immediately and compete?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 14, 2006, 11:20:32 AM
There is a case in point-
What games do you give up?
Man - after taking on B-W and R-M, I don't want to lose those types of measurestick games!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 14, 2006, 11:23:22 AM
Tigerfan2,

The conference is looking to add another team in addition to Stevens, presumably in the same neck of the woods. 


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 14, 2006, 11:37:50 AM
Bamm-
Who would be a good fit?
When will it be the Empire 10?
Logical expansion I have no problem with.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 14, 2006, 11:43:48 AM
http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Stevens&team=m

There's the Stevens Ducks profile.

If they do add another school there is speculation it could be Kings Point (the US Merchant Marine Academy).  The interesting thing about that school is their football program, which currently participates in Liberty League play.  Would they move to the E8 for football as well? We'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 14, 2006, 12:18:56 PM
I definitely think this is a good move. It's nice to see a conference make a move like this that isn't football-motivated (see ACC) or men's basketball-motivated (see Big East). This move makes sense on a lot of different levels:

1) For Stevens, there aren't a lot of quality D3 private schools in northern Jersey. Hell, there isn't a lot of quality anything in northern Jersey. Good criminals, that's about all. This puts them in a conference where they can compete against schools that have close to the same credentials as they do.

2) I think the E8 was getting tired of being screwed in other sports. Granted, the conference brought some of it upon themselves with the advent of conference tourneys in such sports as lacrosse and soccer. However, the competition just wasn't strong enough to warrant taking a second team from the league in those sports. For example, Ithaca has won the regular season championship in men's soccer for the last four years. However, the Bombers have only won the tournament once and in each of the years they didn't win the tournament they were left home despite being one of the hottest teams in the country heading into the E8 tourney. Same can be said for Ithaca's lacrosse team who has to wait for Naz to have their one down year every decade to get into the tourney. This will help the conference get more teams into the various NCAA tournaments and boost its profiles.

3) As far as football is concerned, this maintains the status quo. From here on out, it'll be Ithaca and Fisher's league with the occasional challenge from Alfred and maybe Utica in the coming years. This move doesn't affect anything.

4) For basketball, I'm intrigued what this does. I have a feeling when teams visit Stevens they'll just throw a non-conference game on the schedule. For instance, Ithaca may schedule a game against at team like TCNJ or something to that effect. I think all the E8 teams have some cupcakes they could drop off their schedule. Green Mountain comes to mind. Instead of doing a home-and-home with Cortland and SUNYIT, Ithaca and Utica could just play those teams once a year. I'm sure it won't be a problem.

Overall, a good move. This enhances the conference's academic profile and really helps some of the "ancillary" sports in this conference. I agree with it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 14, 2006, 01:07:02 PM
GB-
You used the word ancillary.
For that you get a karma point!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 14, 2006, 05:20:57 PM
A word on Green Mountain. No doubt they were a cupcake for Ithaca this year, but the connection is more than just a cupcake. I listened to the game on the internet and they stated that the Green Mountain coach is an Ithaca grad who was a student assistant for Mullins a few years back. Both teams also needed a game, so that's how that one got scheduled for the Bombers.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on March 14, 2006, 07:16:55 PM
Ray Bryant made first team all-east region.
Sean O'Brien and Jim Bellis second team. 

And Coach Goode is the east region coach of the year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on March 14, 2006, 08:32:11 PM
Quote from: hoopandtheharm on March 14, 2006, 10:08:44 AM
Plus, there are tons and tons of alumni donors in the NYC/Metro area and you better believe the presidents and AD's thought of that! As a former coach, this would be a great opportunity for an expanded recruiting base too.

I can motor from Alfred to the George Washington Bridge in 4.5 hours, provided, of course, I'm not pulled over by a Joisey trooper. While I'm disappointed Stevens doesn't field a football team because more alumni are attracted to football games, I attended AU's basketball games in NYC at the NYU Tournament and there were many alumni in attendance. AU has always drawn alumni to football games when playing near NYC. Ditto on the recruiting opportunities.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on March 14, 2006, 08:37:05 PM
Quote from: rjcarter8 on March 14, 2006, 05:20:57 PM
A word on Green Mountain. No doubt they were a cupcake for Ithaca this year, but the connection is more than just a cupcake. I listened to the game on the internet and they stated that the Green Mountain coach is an Ithaca grad who was a student assistant for Mullins a few years back. Both teams also needed a game, so that's how that one got scheduled for the Bombers.

Todd Montana (IC '01) is the Green Mountain coach. A sports management major at IC, he indeed was a student assistant for Mullins. He was also assistant at LeMoyne. He's also son of Union head coach Bob Montana and brother of Hartwick senior co-captain John Montana....and son of Linell Soule, phys ed teacher at Alfred-Almond Central School, and grandson of longtime Alfredian Maureen Soule. He was interviewed by ALFRED SUN columnist Doug Lorow in the March 9, 2006 issue.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on March 15, 2006, 08:41:36 AM
How on earth can people vote for Goodnote and not Kornaker
for coach of the year. What does he have to beat him 5 times next year.Its ridiculous Kahler goes undefeated in the e8 and isnt coach of the year.Kornaker beats Utica 4 times has to share coach of the  year w/Goodenote(e8) and doesnt win regional coach of the year.Do you think if Calhoun had the year Fisher in both Mens and womens Basketball would he have been snubbed.I dont think so. SIDs and Coachs need to vote for the the coaches who deserve it  not vote based on people you dont like.I give Coach Goodenote credit for a good year but if anybody watched any of the Fisher/Utica Games you know he was out coached. Its a shame peoble want to treat e8 like one of the top Dlll conferances but with all jealousy between teams and the fact they vote based on not liking certain people is a shame
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 15, 2006, 09:02:39 AM
Wow!
GPT-
I'm a huge Fisher supporter but Goode did deserve that award.
Look at the team he had and look what he did with it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on March 15, 2006, 09:12:06 AM
I agree he did a good job but he lost 4 time to fisher and his team stopped playing in every game with ten minutes to go.His team was out of shape he had the the best player in the conf. and he still couldnt comptete with fisher.If it wasnt for the Naz game fisher would have went undefeated in the region
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on March 15, 2006, 09:15:49 AM
The bottom line they didnt vote for kornacker or kahler because the dont like fisher.Thats the truth. Also if i remember correctly utica was picked to finish 2nd in the e8
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 15, 2006, 09:26:13 AM
GPT,
I take it that you are a Fisher student.
There is no conspiracy against Fisher.
Take a deep breath and take the blinders off.
Goodemote got the best out of a team that had no intention of ever making the NCAA's.
Now to stop the UC love-did Kornaker do a better job-Yeah probably, but this award going to Andy doesn't bother me in the least.
As an alum I love to see the awards pile up for Fisher, this year it was Goode's turn.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 15, 2006, 09:49:31 AM
Quote from: GPT on March 15, 2006, 09:12:06 AM
I agree he did a good job but he lost 4 time to fisher and his team stopped playing in every game with ten minutes to go.His team was out of shape he had the the best player in the conf. and he still couldnt comptete with fisher.If it wasnt for the Naz game fisher would have went undefeated in the region

Hey GPT... you have no friggin idea how much getting into the tournament meant for Utica College athletics.
The first time ever making the NCAA tournament, and they reach the Sweet 16, beating two NE teams including WPI, who was ranked in the D3.com poll all year and UC whuped them by 20!

You have no idea what you're talking about!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on March 15, 2006, 10:00:48 AM
No im not a Fisher student.So i guess what you both are saying is since Coach Goodenote made the ncaas and he beat wpi he deserved coach of the year award in the e8 and the east region.Let me ask one question if kornaker coached utica and goodenote coached fisher.Do you you think utica would have beat fisher this year?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on March 15, 2006, 10:05:37 AM
Budcrew
Im out of my mind. Utica beat two NE schools but the havent beaten fisher in two years.Just because they made the ncaas doesnt mean you should win coach of the year it should be based on your record.

Fisher lost one game in the e8
fisher lost only one game in region
fisher won the chase tounnament
fisher won the e8 tournament
fisher beat utica 4 Times
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 15, 2006, 10:21:31 AM
Quote from: GPT on March 15, 2006, 10:00:48 AM
No im not a Fisher student.So i guess what you both are saying is since Coach Goodenote made the ncaas and he beat wpi he deserved coach of the year award in the e8 and the east region.Let me ask one question if kornaker coached utica and goodenote coached fisher.Do you you think utica would have beat fisher this year?

No UC wouldn't have been Fisher this year even if Kornaker and Goodemote were switched. Fisher had a better team this year, hands down. However, the award is for COACH of the year, and Kornaker's team was expected to make a deep run into the tournament. Utica wasn't supposed to make it, did as one of the final Pool C bids, then won 2 games, both against regular season champions in two different leagues.
Goodemote definitely deserved the award more than Kornaker this  year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 15, 2006, 10:26:02 AM
Quote from: GPT on March 15, 2006, 10:05:37 AM
Budcrew
Im out of my mind. Utica beat two NE schools but the havent beaten fisher in two years.Just because they made the ncaas doesnt mean you should win coach of the year it should be based on your record.

Fisher lost one game in the e8
fisher lost only one game in region
fisher won the chase tounnament
fisher won the e8 tournament
fisher beat utica 4 Times

Wait... based on record only? There's so much more that determines a Coach of the Year award. Utica also won 23 games this year, a record for the program. Just because Fisher beat Utica 4 times and all those other things doesn't mean Kornaker should be handed the award.

Hell, what about in leagues where the coach of the last-place team the year before leads the team to a .500 or better finish? A lot of times, they'll win the award because they did something they weren't expected to do.

For this reason, I think that Syracuse's Jim Boeheim will win the award for the Big East because of Syracuse's run in the Big East Tournament.

Also for this reason, I believe.. if they do the same thing next year, that Hartwick's coach (I'm sorry I can't remember his name I think it's Paul Culpo) will win the award in the E8 next year. GPT, if you are going to debate on this forum, you better come with a better opinion then that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on March 15, 2006, 10:41:30 AM
Empire eight coach of the year is voted on before the ncaas
Utica was picked to finsh second in the e8
I can see your point but the fact is he lost three times in the regular seasonto fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 15, 2006, 11:08:00 AM
Being a Fisher student, to me it is a little suspicous that Goode, didn't even win the confernce coach of the year, but congrats he did deserve it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on March 15, 2006, 11:21:13 AM
kornacker and goodenote shared e8 coach of the award
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 15, 2006, 11:24:20 AM
everyone, don't forget to factor in 'heart' and 'courage' when thinking about these awards, normally these are the two most important factors in basketball
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2006, 02:00:42 PM
Budcrew08 is right about what determines who the coach of the year is, at least in our minds. It may be correct that Utica was picked to finish second in the E8 in the preseason (I'll take your word for it) but the fact of the matter is, being picked to finish second in this league does not carry an expectation of 23 wins and a berth in the Sweet 16.

Who exceeds expectations the most? That's a large part of what I think makes a coach of the year, and I am not afraid to contradict a conference's Coach of the Year decision if postseason results warrant it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 15, 2006, 02:44:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2006, 02:00:42 PM
Budcrew08 is right about what determines who the coach of the year is, at least in our minds. It may be correct that Utica was picked to finish second in the E8 in the preseason (I'll take your word for it) but the fact of the matter is, being picked to finish second in this league does not carry an expectation of 23 wins and a berth in the Sweet 16.

Who exceeds expectations the most? That's a large part of what I think makes a coach of the year, and I am not afraid to contradict a conference's Coach of the Year decision if postseason results warrant it.

Thanks for the props for what I wrote to GPT... coming from someone who has my dream job (writing sports for a major newspaper), it's a huge compliment. +1K point, despite the fact  the Guru doesn't need my stinkin' karma point. ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 15, 2006, 03:02:09 PM
Look out -
Budcrew's head won't be able to fit through his door!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jukebox Hero on March 15, 2006, 11:04:14 PM
I wonder what happens if someone smites Pat. I wonder why his karma is only +58  ???
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2006, 03:44:30 AM
Quote from: Jukebox Hero on March 15, 2006, 11:04:14 PM
I wonder what happens if someone smites Pat. I wonder why his karma is only +58  ???

I think I had been in the mid-60s before the All-Region team came out. Even though the SIDs vote on it and I have no say, people take it out on me.

Sometimes an unbiased take is pretty unpopular around here. :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 16, 2006, 07:14:49 AM
Pat - it is tough at the top huh? ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 16, 2006, 08:30:07 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2006, 03:44:30 AM
Quote from: Jukebox Hero on March 15, 2006, 11:04:14 PM
I wonder what happens if someone smites Pat. I wonder why his karma is only +58  ???

I think I had been in the mid-60s before the All-Region team came out. Even though the SIDs vote on it and I have no say, people take it out on me.

Sometimes an unbiased take is pretty unpopular around here. :)

I think you have plenty to do with it Pat.  After all, you let those geeks vote don't you? No offense to the Nerd Herd, but come on now.  Half of your voters couldn't hit a lay-up for a free slice of pizza at halftime.

We all love SID's, but why should they be allowed to vote on polls and for All-Region teams when many of them are hockey hounds and football fanatics.  The stats they provide are great, but there is more to the game than numbers.

Couldn't you have the coaches vote?  I'm sure they'd do a better job on both All-Region and Top 25 polls.

Keep up the good work.  We all love your site, but the polls and All-Region seem to be something that goes up for debate every year, yet never gets fixed.

Go UC!!!

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 17, 2006, 02:18:15 AM
Coaches have their own All-Region team.
Coaches HAD their own Top 25. Ask around how that went. There's a reason ours is still here and their is not.

Without the SIDs, we wouldn't HAVE an All-Region team. I think this is better.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 17, 2006, 11:06:50 AM
I'm going to put on my "Unity" ring and punch Ulf in the forehead. That would be coooold bloooooded.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 17, 2006, 12:33:48 PM
Make sure to leave an imprint of the ring squarely in the middle of his forehead!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2006, 12:44:48 AM
Quote from: Jukebox Hero on March 15, 2006, 11:04:14 PM
I wonder what happens if someone smites Pat. I wonder why his karma is only +58  ???

Petulant children! :-\ :(
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 18, 2006, 11:18:48 PM
any one want to give their prediction for the final 2007 E-9 standings?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 18, 2006, 11:31:20 PM
yes i have a prediction Reggie finishes life in 1st place and i dont care who knows it bitch
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 19, 2006, 09:57:43 AM
Quote from: reggieball22 on March 18, 2006, 11:31:20 PM
yes i have a prediction Reggie finishes life in 1st place and i dont care who knows it bitch

You need more firber in your diet boy
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on March 19, 2006, 07:05:54 PM
thats more fiber,lol
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 20, 2006, 09:32:18 AM
Quote from: notjoshreed on March 18, 2006, 11:18:48 PM
any one want to give their prediction for the final 2007 E-9 standings?


Sure.*
1. Fisher
2. Utica
3. Ithaca
4. RIT
5. Naz
6. Stevens
7. Alfred
8. Hartwick
9. Elmira

* This listing is in no way been researched or anything, just a gut feeling from a E8 fan.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 20, 2006, 11:21:12 AM
1) Utica--Savor the flavor and enjoy Fisher's one rebuilding year.

2) Fisher--Still good enough to be at or near the top all season once they get used to playing without O'Brien and Bennett. Lots of talent remains.

3) RIT--Again will be a step below the top echelon but still good enough to be above the other teams.

4) Ithaca--Some nice young pieces but nobody made for the "go-to-guy" role. A lot depends on how much Bostic and Burton improve in their sophomore years.

5) Naz--If not next year, then when? Maybe during the off-season they can take care of their allergy to defense.

6) Hartwick--Should be decent next year provided they keep all or most of their players. Would have been a top 3 team if Bettencourt had stayed for his whole career.

7) Stevens--Your guess is as good as mine. I think all the travel may wear them down towards the end of the conference season.

8) Alfred--If they couldn't get it done with all those experienced seniors this year, what does that say for next year?

9) Elmira--Terrible team this year and loses their best player to graduation. Will be the conference basement-dwellers for years to come.

Just one guy's guess.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 21, 2006, 04:01:14 PM
Utica's Ray Bryant named as a third-team NABC All-American!

http://nabc.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/032106aai.html

Sean O' Brien from SJF makes first-team as well.

(Had to hype up Utica because.. well... I can  :P
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 21, 2006, 09:20:33 PM
Funny how Ray Bryant didn't even make the D3hoops.com honorable mention All-American.  Yeah, Pat, the coaches are clueless ???  They wouldn't know how to run a poll or vote for all region :o!!!

Perhaps you should revamp your voting policies and let those in the know vote for a change.  Get off your high horse and post the NABC All-Americans on your site.

We all would like to know who the REAL All-Americans are. 

Ray Bryant is the Real Deal ;D The scary thing is, he has another year in this conference. 

Go Pioneers!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 21, 2006, 09:28:34 PM
Sean O'Brien nowhere to be found either!!!

A first teamer NABC all-american, not even an honorable mention at D3hoops.com!!!

I wonder which O'Brien would rather be?!!

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 21, 2006, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 21, 2006, 09:20:33 PM
Funny how Ray Bryant didn't even make the D3hoops.com honorable mention All-American.  Yeah, Pat, the coaches are clueless ???  They wouldn't know how to run a poll or vote for all region :o!!!

Perhaps you should revamp your voting policies and let those in the know vote for a change.  Get off your high horse and post the NABC All-Americans on your site.

We all would like to know who the REAL All-Americans are. 

Ray Bryant is the Real Deal ;D The scary thing is, he has another year in this conference. 

Go Pioneers!

We know who the best players are just fine.

We also know that it makes no sense to give a region with 36 teams the same number of All-Americans as a region with 60 teams. O'Brien was in the conversation very deep into the process.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2006, 01:03:52 AM
Coaches are among the WORST possible voters (for teams or players).  Obviously they know their own players better than outsiders, and probably their upcoming opponents' players, but what motivation (or time) would they have to know anything about teams or players not on their schedule?

Besides, they have a conflict-of-interest: opponents will get over-rated, since then a win looks even better, or a loss looks less bad.

And, at least at the d1 level, it has been documented that 'coaches' votes are generally not by the coach anyway, but by a grad-assistant or the SID (which at least means that the vote is probably more informed than if it had been by the time-stressed 'coach')!

'Coaches' polls are a farce.  And the d3 NABC poll is a farce of a farce, with 1 player per region on each team (regardless of position).  Yeah, like the #2 in the East or Mid-Atlantic is guaranteed to be better than the #3 in the Great Lakes or Midwest?!  Any 'poll' with NO Witt or IWU players on even the third team, and Kyle Myrick only on the third team, is a joke.

Ulf, assuming O'Brien has a brain, he'd rather be on the d3hoops AA list.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 22, 2006, 01:37:12 PM
Knowing Sean from my days as wee lad, I can say with 100% certainty that you all are a lot more pissed about him not making D3hoops.com All-American than he is.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 23, 2006, 12:11:46 PM
Honestly I hate these indivdual awards I mean it's nice and all, but it's all about getting to Salem.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 23, 2006, 05:05:50 PM
no its not, its all about getting Reggie the basketball.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 23, 2006, 05:07:32 PM
and clearing out 1-4 low baby.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 23, 2006, 05:18:36 PM
You have to be nuts to think that SID's are better voters for All-Region and All-American teams than coaches.

I really think coaches know who the best players in the country are regardless of the league or region in which their teams play in.  I bet more coaches know out-of-region colleagues and star players than SID's do.  Coaches talk all the time about who is good in their perspective leagues.  Coaches in other regions sure knew Ray Bryant from UC baby.  How many SID's knew about him though?  Teams also travel out-of-region for tournaments and such as well.  To say that SID's are better judges of talent than the coaches is laughable.

Furthermore, if I remeber correctly, if an SID doesn't nominate his school's players for D3hoops.com awards than the best players might not even be up for selection.   In year's past many top players who were selected by the NABC haven't even been able to make the D3hoops.com team because the respective school's SID's were knee-deep in hockey or baseball and completely forgot to send their stuff in.   If you all know who the best players are, then why place the burden on the SID's to nominate the players.  If anyone should be nominating the players, it should be the coaches or the leagues in which they play.  

Saying that a player would rather be a D3hoops.com All-American over being an NABC All-American is like saying Andrew Bogut would rather be the Salt Lake Tribune Player of the Year instead of the Wooden Award winner.  Or Jameer Nelson would rather be the Comcast SportsNet All-American than the Wooden Award winner.

It's just doesn't make any sense to me.  The awards are great, but you've can't put yourselves ABOVE the NCAA fellas.  

Go UC!!!


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2006, 09:39:50 PM
The NCAA doesn't have anual basketball awards. Nobody is putting themselves above the NCAA.

And no offense, but this site is not just some local newspaper or a regional cable provider, it's a national site. At the very least, compare it to the Associated Press All-America team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: formerbant10 on March 23, 2006, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2006, 09:39:50 PM
The NCAA doesn't have anual basketball awards. Nobody is putting themselves above the NCAA.

And no offense, but this site is not just some local newspaper or a regional cable provider, it's a national site. At the very least, compare it to the Associated Press All-America team.

As much as Pat has been questioned about his All Americans on this board and on the New England boards...his All America teams are legit.  They may have a bias towards players from the Midwest and Great Lakes, but looking at who the best teams were it's easy to see why. 

Sure there are some players who have a legitimate case for making AA teams, if they get selected for either D3Hoops or the NABC those players should be happy.  They are now part of an elite fraternity of Division 3 basketball players.

And I have to agree with Mr. Ypsi, if Kyle Myrick is 3rd team....there is something wrong.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 23, 2006, 10:48:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2006, 09:39:50 PM


And no offense, but this site is not just some local newspaper or a regional cable provider, it's a national site. At the very least, compare it to the Associated Press All-America team.

And by the way, how can you REALLY compare your site with the AP?  Are you kidding us?  The Associated Press is the world's largest such organization.

As of 2005, AP's news is used by 1,700 newspapers, in addition to 5,000 television and radio outlets!!! Its photo library consists of over 10 million images!!! The AP has 242 bureaus and serves 121 countries, with a diverse international staff drawing from all over the world. The AP Stylebook has become the de facto standard for newswriting in the count. And you want to compare your site to the AP?!!!

C'mon now Pat.  Get real.  Salt Lake City would be your biggest gig and you know it.  Don't front the Mormons baby.  Who dat say they gonna beat dem Bengals?  Who Dat? Who Dat?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2006, 11:06:10 PM
Ahem -- how many boards do you need to have this argument on? I've responded to your drivel in the NESCAC board and I will not respond further here.

We are the national news service of Division III basketball. I think it's wholly applicable. Move the chip on your shoulder so you can see more clearly. Who disseminates more Division III basketball news than we do? Remember the size of the fish and the size of the pond.

By the way, my biggest gig would be at a slightly larger paper than Salt Lake City. The paper I work at now sells a few more papers than that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 23, 2006, 11:21:04 PM
You compared yourself to the AP.  You argue in circles. And give yourself 5 stars guru!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2006, 01:14:32 AM
All I see you interested in doing is crossposting from one board to the other. You don't seem interested in responding to my points. Perhaps that's because you made basic assumptions that were just plain false regarding the way the All-American team is constructed.

If you want to obfuscate the real discussion with your boilerplate off the AP mission statement or whatever, that's your problem.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 24, 2006, 10:08:15 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2006, 01:14:32 AM
All I see you interested in doing is crossposting from one board to the other. You don't seem interested in responding to my points. Perhaps that's because you made basic assumptions that were just plain false regarding the way the All-American team is constructed.

If you want to obfuscate the real discussion with your boilerplate off the AP mission statement or whatever, that's your problem.

According to dictionary.com: Obfuscate -  To make so confused or opaque as to be difficult to perceive or understand: "A great effort was made... to obscure or obfuscate the truth"

Ulf... as a UC guy myself, I hate to do this, but you're making yourself look stupid. Mr. Coleman, el guru himself, works for the USA Today family of newspapers, if I do remember correctly. He's got a job that those of us in much smaller locales and those on the "other side of the wall" (NEWS) would beg and cry for. Now, I 'm sure this post will kill my Karma because I'm kissing PC's azz for a second, but it's true.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 24, 2006, 04:16:36 PM
You know why I like dictionary.com?    The Word of the Day    That's my favorite website.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 24, 2006, 05:28:12 PM
Ulf, would you even know what circular reasoning was if it sat on your face? By the way, nice karma to post rate. You must really try to piss people off.

Col, The Word of the Day is tremendous. Unfortunately, I'm like 50 behind and they're cluttering up my inbox.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 25, 2006, 04:58:43 PM
Coleman,

Just the fact that you need to defend yourself shows me that this guy is getting under your skin. I think your All-American teams suck ass, and you need to have your facts checked. There is some pretty solid basketball played in the East region you know Patricia.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 25, 2006, 05:06:15 PM
Yawn.

Let's hear it for "pretty solid ball."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 25, 2006, 05:19:05 PM
You can all voice your displeasure with Pat when he is in Pittsford on 9/23 for the Ithaca/Fisher football game. Right, Pat? Right? Right? C'mon, you know you want to be there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 25, 2006, 05:20:24 PM
I would like to be there. I might not be even living on the east coast in September, though, so I'm not making any plans for any football weekends as of yet.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Warren Thompson on March 25, 2006, 05:31:49 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 25, 2006, 05:20:24 PM
I might not be even living on the east coast in September, though, so I'm not making any plans for any football weekends as of yet.

Say what?

Pat might be leaving the east coast before September? What next, St. John's (MN) drops football?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 26, 2006, 04:03:19 PM
Just a reminder of the Terms of Service:

"3) Posts that simply serve to bash another poster and do not discuss Division III sports will be removed."

Make a note of it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 26, 2006, 06:32:44 PM
Pat, I respect your posts and your AA teams and the SID's who pick them, partly because I'm hoping to eventually be a SID.  Come on ULF and Reggie get a life,  these kids , might be hurt for all of 15 seconds that they didn't make the AA team, It's basketball my friends and it's fun not a torture fest so cut it out and lets enjoy this game.  LETS GO MASON
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 26, 2006, 06:39:21 PM
Thanks, although as I said, the SIDs don't pick the All-America teams.

And yeah, Warren, my hometown is calling me. I've spent 15 years out here and I could live with that being the last of it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 27, 2006, 02:58:52 AM
so what about your "pretty solid ball" comment towards me? Why was that not removed??? That does not discuss Division 3 basketball and simply bashes me. If you are going to be a stickler for rules Patricia you should follow them yourself.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 27, 2006, 08:57:28 AM
Back to some basketball related news. The All-Great Rochester teams were in this weekend's Rochester Democrat & Chronicle. There is a write up, typically including potential college plans on all the first team members. Although many of these players go Div. I or II, every year several end up staying in the area.

This year, there are only 2 guys on the first team that list any of the local schools as schools of interest. Greg Logins from Sodus has Alfred and Brockport on his list. After seeing him play last year, he could be a major matchup problem for most of the E8 teams if he lands at Alfred and could step right in and replace Stein. The other player with local interest is Scott Young from Hornell who has UR, RIT, and Hamilton listed. Here's hoping that McVean can land him because he's been putting up solid numbers at Hornell for 3 years now and they could really use somebody inside to help out Bacon.

Most of the other guys on the first team are undecided but most of them look like they have some Div I or Div II interest.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: The Observation Deck on March 27, 2006, 01:56:26 PM
That doesn't bash you personally, just references your comment.

I think we all can see the difference between a post like that and one where you simply name-call like a sixth-grader.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 27, 2006, 07:07:28 PM
I say we send each party to the corner and take away their afternoon snack.  On the recruiting never count out FIsher, if they do one thing really well, it's recruiting, which is why basketball will always be a threat
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 28, 2006, 08:45:30 AM
I certainly wasn't counting out fisher, just commenting on the news reported in the D & C. Granted, the information provided is only on the first team AGR. There are plenty of other quality players in Section V alone that aren't on that first team. So many guys from all the E8 schools come from outside the area anyway, so it's really not a great indicater of recruiting, just a quick update.

I understand Kornaker and staff were in Glens Falls for the championship weekend so I'm sure they were recruiting some of the kids there pretty hard.
They'll have to do a good job recruiting this year to replace all the talent and experience they are losing in the backcourt this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: assassin on March 28, 2006, 03:24:51 PM
On the topic of AGR, opposing E8ers had better hope that AGR POY Cory McCadam doesn't decide to attend Naz and team up with his brother Ryan.  The kid is great and would definitely be a major impact player in the conference right away.  With him, Ryan, and Canori in the backcourt, they would have THE best backcourt in the conference.  And you definitely can't count Fisher out, as far as reccruiting is concerned because every single year they over-recruit.  Any kid is going to want to come to your school when you tell them they're going to come in and start right away.  False promises seems to be a major component of their recruiting package.  How about we try the honest approach of a coach like McVean, Neer, or Daley.  And I can't wait for all those Fisher fanatics to chime in and call me a hater because of all of their recent success.  I'm not taking anything away from what they've done on the court...it's been remarkable.  All I'm saying is that is starting to become more of a known widespread fact that they over-recruit. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 28, 2006, 09:38:37 PM
Too much of a good thing is not a bad thing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 29, 2006, 07:11:19 AM
Its Division 3, its impossible to OVER-RECRUIT. There are no scholarships available, so until the kid shows up on campus the first day of school you never really know if he is coming. Also there are other factors that fall into Division 3 basketball that you will not find at a D-1 or 2 school because their scholarship essentially controls their admission to the school. So if a kid at a D3 school decides he wants to focus his time on banging his girlfriend or getting bombed 4 nights a week their isnt much the team can do about it academically because the kid is paying his own way. If I am a division 3 coach Im recruiting about 40 kids because you never ever know at the Division 3 level its not like these kids are signing letters of intents.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: assassin on March 29, 2006, 07:59:20 AM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with recruiting a high number of players to come into your program, and your point about D3 players not being mandated to a scholarship is one well taken.  But the process needs to be an honest one.  There is a BIG difference between telling kids that you'll have an opportunity to compete for playing time or a starting position, as opposed to promising them one to get them to come to your school.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: assassin on March 29, 2006, 08:01:30 AM
Come on Reggie, you should what goes on there, you played against them everyyear while at RIT.  You can't tell me that you don't know what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 29, 2006, 09:07:38 AM
I don't see the problem with recruiting a lot of kids, that happens everywhere, its the story they get in the recruiting process. I think it's pretty safe to say that most kids, at least locally, know that Fisher recruits a ton of players.
The problem comes in when a program over recruits and then too many of the players they talked to show up on campus. If you're cutting incoming recruits on a consistent basis, word gets around. I know of a couple of recruits in the past couple years who have been recruited by Fisher but decided to go elsewhere because of this.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 29, 2006, 10:57:08 AM
First off, yes Fisher over recruits, every single d3 school over recruits, it just happens that a) Fisher is a good enough of a school and has a great basketball program that all these recruits want to come and play. B) every student has a chance to start, that's not a lie, Fisher gives the starting line up to best players.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 29, 2006, 11:10:07 AM
and most importantly......

c.) anybody can get into Fisher academically if they can bounce a basketball or run a football.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 29, 2006, 02:37:34 PM
Going to have to disagree on that one Tiger...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 29, 2006, 02:41:21 PM
Sorry about the mistype, I meant Reggie...


Does anyone have any inside info on incoming recruits Within the E8 next year?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 29, 2006, 03:39:14 PM
Two words: Carl Jefferson

That pretty much sums up the academics situation Reggie was referring to.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: assassin on March 29, 2006, 04:41:02 PM
What was his 1 semester GPA again??  Oh thats right...it was a 0.0!!!  You actually have to try pretty hard to get that kind of GPA.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on March 29, 2006, 07:54:10 PM
2 more words......Noah Fahrenpuke (Fisher football player). He strongly considered basketball at RIT until he was laughed at by our admissions office, which in turn he was gladly admitted at Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 29, 2006, 08:59:36 PM
First Off, Fisher has changed a lot and has raised its standards a lot since Carl Jefferson has played.  2nd, I was accepted to both Fisher and RIT.  I could have gone to RIT $5000 cheaper than fisher.  McVean is very good at packaging, RIT used their CO-OP requirement as a huge recruiting tool in gettin players.  The past few years Fishers sports packages have been very conservative, which is a bummer, seeing how the some school's such as teams in the NESCAC or teams even of Hamilton's caliber package kids nearly free because of such large endownments. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 29, 2006, 09:31:39 PM
Quote from: DickieV on March 29, 2006, 04:41:02 PM
What was his 1 semester GPA again??  Oh thats right...it was a 0.0!!!  You actually have to try pretty hard to get that kind of GPA.

Hey wait a minute! That's from Animal House! Belushi's (Bluto's) GPA was 0.0. At least admit you were making an Animal House reference. ::)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 30, 2006, 01:36:07 AM
I guess my post about how Noah Fehrenbach's gf has a child on the way was deemed inappropriate. Sorry about that, Pat. I guess it's not what you say but how you say it.

But I do stand by my comment that Paradise is a terrible bar. You'd hate it, Pat, it smells like a latrine.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: assassin on March 30, 2006, 07:56:22 AM
Sadly enough, I wasn't stealing a line from Animal House, 0.0 actually was Jefferson's GPA.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 30, 2006, 08:27:22 AM
Jefferson did indeed have a 0.0, outstanding work on his part.

I also heard that M. McGee had some admissions issues with other schools that were recruiting him. I'm not saying that he wouldn't have picked Fisher anyway with his brother there, but some schools did have difficulty getting him in, at least that was the rumor.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 30, 2006, 08:46:13 AM
Yes Carl did have a 0.0. that kid didnt give a S*&# about anything, haha oh well.

Yeah I have heard that about Mike too.  However, I believe Mike was only interested in B-Port and Fisher, and Chose Fisher.  I didnt have anything to do with getting rejected by other schools.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 30, 2006, 09:09:46 AM
Quote from: DickieV on March 30, 2006, 07:56:22 AM
Sadly enough, I wasn't stealing a line from Animal House, 0.0 actually was Jefferson's GPA.


taken from IMDB.com

Dean Vernon Wormer: Mr. Kroger: two C's, two D's and an F. That's a 1.2 grade average. Congratulations, Kroger. You're at the top of the Delta pledge class. Mr. Dorfman?
Flounder: Hello!
Dean Vernon Wormer: Zero point two. ....Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. Mr. Hoover, president of Delta house? One point six; four C's and an F. A fine example you set! Daniel Simpson Day....HAS no grade point average. All courses incomplete. Mr. Blu--MR. BLUTARSKY....ZERO POINT ZERO.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 30, 2006, 10:50:57 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on March 30, 2006, 01:36:07 AM
I guess my post about how Noah Fehrenbach's gf has a child on the way was deemed inappropriate. Sorry about that, Pat. I guess it's not what you say but how you say it.

But I do stand by my comment that Paradise is a terrible bar. You'd hate it, Pat, it smells like a latrine.

Are you deliberately trying to antagonize me?  That smell was another one of its many endearing qualities.  Besides, after about a half hour of fifty-cent rum and cokes that smell was a distant memory.

If you feel this strongly about the 'Dise I'm sure it's a sore point between you and your significant other -- the two of you certainly spent enough time there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 30, 2006, 11:43:02 AM
Paradise may have smelled and all that other stuff, but it still had an unbelievable atmosphere with very cheap drinks.  I was so hammered everytime the smell didnt bother me at all.  Good memories came from that place, it was always a good time as much as I hated to admit it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 30, 2006, 12:45:22 PM
Man am I getting old.
Paradise?
The only cool place when I was at fisher was at Patim's!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on March 30, 2006, 07:42:21 PM
I know a player on the Fisher team who was recruited by almost all the D3 schools on the East coast and was also recruited for Tightend at many D1 schools. The reason he picked Fisher was because of their reputation as a great school not just for sports ,but education. The size of the campus had alot to do with it, Your a person not just a number. I will also add that he was a key player on the starting five for Fisher. Fisher will always have a great team because they recruit well. If your an average player don't go to Fisher because only the best play there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 31, 2006, 02:18:08 AM
yeah i know what u mean ricco....

You def have to be better than average, im not even sure why the recruit average kids anyways... just makes them dissapointed. They should be able to tell who can play for them and who cant.  Im not sayin dont bring in a lot of guys but all should be of top talent.  For next year, I have Fisher preseason ranked 1st, then Nazareth, and Utica a close 2nd and 3rd.  Fisher returning 3 solid big guys in Beigal, Mcsweeney, and Smalt, and i predict Dan mueller (obriens back up) to have a break out year this year, that kid can play.  They also have 4 or 5 6'6 and over kids comin in next year with a few really good pt guards (1 from cambell savonia and another from a prep school out of Maryland) Also have a few good 6'3 or 6'4 kids from all over, look for them to reload.  Not saying they will make it as far as past fisher teams, it will take a while to reach that plateau, but the E8 conference is weak enough where they should still finish first. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 31, 2006, 09:20:51 AM
If they have recruited #23 from Campell-Savona they are getting a pretty good player.  Saw him in Glens Falls (also saw Kornaker and assistants watching that game.)  He's got decent size and could play point in college, though he certainly isn't the kind of player who will make a huge impact as a freshman. 

I'd lean towards Utica as the frontrunner for next season.  Fisher, RIT, Ithaca, and Naz should all contend for playoff spots and any of them could take out Utica as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 31, 2006, 09:26:14 AM
Yah #23 was the one i was referring too.  I've seen him play in sectional and he seems pretty solid. Has good size like u said and seemed very poise.  I still dont know how you can put Utica as the front runner, when they lose cichon and lucas who are 2 out of there big 3.  They are still way too small to compete against Fisher.  Mcsweeny, Smalt, and Beigal are much better than people think.  Fishers strong guard play in the past just overshadowed them. As long as Mueller and another guard can play undercontrol, Fisher will be very tough within the E8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 31, 2006, 02:25:39 PM
I consider the Pioneers the frontrunner despite the loss of Cichon and Lucas because I think what Fisher is losing is much more important to them.  SOB has been running that team for three years.  He played 35+ minutes every game the last two years.  It's not an easy transition.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 31, 2006, 02:45:24 PM
I agree with ya there that it will definatly be a very hard transition with the lost of its guard play.  The loss of 5 guards who all played big minutes, Sean obrien and Nick Bennett have led the team in minutes played the past 3 seasons.  In no way do i think next years fisher team will be close to as good as this year.  I just think they still have the top talent in the league, with the addition of a few solid recruits, they should be able to top utica again.  By the time league play comes around some of the kinks from the transition will be loosened.  I think Nazareth (even tho its hard to say bc of last years dissappointment, will should finish 2nd talent wise but probably will finish 4th behind rit and utica due to bad coaching.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: col on March 31, 2006, 04:35:05 PM
What is "Paradise"?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 31, 2006, 05:02:55 PM
Fisher probably does have the best front line returning, but the question is if the guards can get them the ball. O'Brien, Bennett, etc. always did a great job of not only spreading out the defense for the post players with their perimeter shooting, but also getting the post players the ball in a position that they could do something with it.

For Mueller and the new guards coming into the program to to provide that will certainly be a question mark going into the season. If they can't do this efficiently, most teams will probably just pack the defense in and try and make the new, relatively inexperienced backcourt beat them. That, or pressure them as much as possible to create turnovers.

Should be an interesting year to see how Fisher transitions to a new lineup.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 31, 2006, 06:32:14 PM
Couldn't have said it better Tigerfan....

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on April 04, 2006, 09:31:15 PM
I still think Fisher is the best team in the league going into next season. However, to echo the sentiment of other posters, I think the gap will significantly narrow next season. I think whoever wins the conference may have as many as 3 or 4 conference losses. I say "as many" because Fisher had only lost one conference game in the past two seasons. Other potential challengers:

Utica will be solid. They have the best player in the conference and I think Herring will be a solid second option as a sophomore. The loss of Cichon and Lucas is very big. Lucas always scared me because he was an athetic, hard-nosed player who wasn't afraid to mix it up inside, but also could beat you from outside. As for Cichon, his stats speak for themselves and he'll be missed. I don't think they'll go 0-for-the-season against Fisher next year; Bryant is good enough to get them at least once.

RIT is there, too. The loss of Snyder hurts. As does the loss of Martin (less so, obviously). RIT will rely on its outside shooters but they should really be going to Bacon a lot more next season. It sounded like that's what they did against Fisher in the E8 tourney and it was almost enough. Their game should be inside-outside and and not the other way. That said, the team still has to get over the mental block of not being able to beat Fisher. On the bright side, O'Brien/Bennett/McGee are gone and it seemed like those three always had their biggest games against the Tigers.

Ithaca is really an enigma and I could see things going either way with them. If Bostic improves as much this off-season as he did in the last 3 weeks of the season, they will definitely be a contender. He basically went from a stiff to a very good player in a short time, capped by him winning the MVP of the ECAC tourney (over Bellis, no less). Not sure if he or Burton is ready to be "the guy" next year but I trust that one of them will find that role. They also have other solid contributors coming back in Joe and Stahn. They'll need a couple of this year's freshmen or a recruit or two to step up to provide some depth, but I don't think you can really count the Bombers out.

Nazareth. Blah. Talent galore. Horrible coach. Call me when they can develop some consistency on a night-to-night basis. Or when they decide to play a lick of defense. Or when they seem to care when they play against a team not named Fisher or RIT. Not hopping on that bandwagon.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fpc85 on April 11, 2006, 08:22:36 PM
Any truth to the runmor that the st. john fisher coach is leaving? I heard from a reliable source that he may be moving on.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on April 12, 2006, 10:19:52 AM
Would that mean one of his 17 assistent coaches would be taking over, or would he take them all along with him to his next job?

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on April 12, 2006, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: fpc85 on April 11, 2006, 08:22:36 PM
Any truth to the runmor that the st. john fisher coach is leaving? I heard from a reliable source that he may be moving on.

Hm, I never really saw Kornaker as a guy who would want to end up at the D1 level. I understand all people want to advance in their profession, but that's less true at the D3 level. He seems to have a good thing going at Fisher. At best, he'd be a second or third assistant at a mid-major (MAAC schools, perhaps?). It's a long road from there to make it as a big-time D1 coach.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fpc85 on April 12, 2006, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on April 12, 2006, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: fpc85 on April 11, 2006, 08:22:36 PM
Any truth to the runmor that the st. john fisher coach is leaving? I heard from a reliable source that he may be moving on.

Hm, I never really saw Kornaker as a guy who would want to end up at the D1 level. I understand all people want to advance in their profession, but that's less true at the D3 level. He seems to have a good thing going at Fisher. At best, he'd be a second or third assistant at a mid-major (MAAC schools, perhaps?). It's a long road from there to make it as a big-time D1 coach.

I never said he was looking for a D1 job.....It might be a lateral move.....I was wondering if anyone has heard anything?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: retired12 on April 20, 2006, 12:05:17 PM
Any word on Hobart hiring a new ccoach?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fpc85 on April 20, 2006, 02:43:55 PM
Maybe its the Fisher coach.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on April 21, 2006, 10:01:06 AM
Personally, I'd love to see Kornaker take over at his alma mater...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on April 21, 2006, 01:17:15 PM
I don't believe that Kornaker, would leave Fisher for another school in the same region.  Maybe if he got an offer from a bigger name D3 school, or a D2 school, but he has a good thing going at Fisher, and I saw him driving a BMW yesterday,
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on April 21, 2006, 01:20:49 PM
I have heard it is official - Kornaker is now the Hobart Coach.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on April 21, 2006, 04:13:07 PM
Ray Bryant is going pro.  Is this true??????

Say it ain't so Ray.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on April 25, 2006, 02:28:15 PM
Does anyone know the deal?  And what about Ray Bryant, is he leaving?  And has anyone heard that cross town rival Utica is getting Billy Edelin from the Cuse?

Peace
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on April 26, 2006, 08:55:28 PM
Nice article on Nick Bennett and Sean O'Brien on school web site. They made the NABC Honors Court.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on April 27, 2006, 12:30:35 PM
That was a very nice article on Nick Bennett and Sean Obrien, I would like to congratulate them, what a great honor. 


As far as Ray Bryant Going Pro. What level of professional basketball are we talking about? ABA, Overseas, NBDL? In my opionion Ray is no where Near good enough to play in the NBDL nor has the skills to play in a competitive overseas league.  He is a very small big man, his outside shot and ball handling isn't nearly good enough to play at that level.  However, the ABA level I could see him getting some looks from some teams.  I also, know that local ABA teams have showed interest in a few fisher players as well, Nick Bennet being one of them.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on April 27, 2006, 12:39:50 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on April 25, 2006, 02:28:15 PM
Does anyone know the deal? And what about Ray Bryant, is he leaving? And has anyone heard that cross town rival Utica is getting Billy Edelin from the Cuse?

Peace

Rivals in what? Women's fencing?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reggieball22 on April 27, 2006, 06:34:02 PM
Ray Bryant in the ABA?? Current prominent players for the Rochester Razorsharks.....Chris Carrawell, Lazarus Sims, Demond Stewart, Keith Friel, Mookie Reeves......Ray Bryant??? Are you people freiking kidding me?? Not only could the 35 year old Bryant ever step on an ABA court, he would have to have a really good connection to even get a roster spot on a team. You guys absolutely amaze me sometimes. But I guess comments by clear about the Cuse being a crosstown rival to Utica pretty much explains everything.

Reggie lives.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on April 27, 2006, 10:40:02 PM
im gonna have to pretty much agree with ya reggie..

No way is he good enough to be on the Razorsharks, but he maybe be able to earn a spot on one of the weaker teams, i know some ABA teams have struggled and are nt of the same caliber as the Rsharks. But yeah i would be very surprised if he were to earn a spot in the ABA
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on April 28, 2006, 11:19:04 AM
Rule #1, 2 and 3: Don't ever listen to anything Clear says. Ever.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 28, 2006, 02:17:01 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on April 21, 2006, 01:20:49 PM
I have heard it is official - Kornaker is now the Hobart Coach.

You mean like this? :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on April 28, 2006, 02:42:48 PM
Clear you don't know anything.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on May 05, 2006, 06:11:26 PM
Razor Sharks? I would have called them the Laser Sharks.  The logo could have been a shark with a frickin' laser beam attached to its head.  Really, am I asking for too much here? Some sharks with some frickin' laser beams attached to their heads?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on May 10, 2006, 09:37:25 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on May 05, 2006, 06:11:26 PM
Razor Sharks? I would have called them the Laser Sharks.  The logo could have been a shark with a frickin' laser beam attached to its head.  Really, am I asking for too much here? Some sharks with some frickin' laser beams attached to their heads?

Nice Austin Powers reference... K to you.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on June 14, 2006, 10:59:45 AM
For all you Duke haters out there (aka everyone except Duke fans), this link is too good. Read some of the comments about Redick's DWI arrest.

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/college-basketball/jj-redick-dui-seriously-180350.php

I think you'll enjoy.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on June 24, 2006, 01:32:15 AM
wow...those comments...."was he wearing a helmet" is definately on my top ten.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on June 29, 2006, 02:57:59 PM
This just in Issiah Thomas signs  Sean O'Brien, Nick Bennet, and Mike McGee all to 10 year 100 million dollar deals.  When asked why he made the move Issiah said that the Knicks need some down home attitude that these three D3 Players will bring
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on June 30, 2006, 07:31:42 PM
Wow I like that. The Nicks swuck
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on July 22, 2006, 02:30:31 PM
It should say the NY Nicks suck.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on September 15, 2006, 03:34:49 PM
Any early predictions on who should start the season off where in the E8? or any news on local recruits..
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on November 04, 2006, 08:37:14 PM
well as some of us have figured out, fisher brought in 47 freshmen like always. ithaca brought in a pretty good class which includes soph sean leahy, former west genny product. naz has brought in another good class just because of corey mcadam, he might be all league this year. elmira brings in a couple of local recruits who may or may not make a impact, my guess is no. rit brought in a couple of small school all stars who usually have a tough time adjusting to d3 ball. not sure about the rest....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 06, 2006, 12:55:02 AM
Well, since IC's playoff hopes in football are down the drain, while my fellow Bomber fans do their Cortaca thing, I figure I'll get a head start on Empire 8 basketball season as our teams try to follow up the great success of SJF and UC last year.  Here's the results of my research...

HARTWICK (10-15, 4-10 Empire 8)

R - Jan Cocozziello - 14.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 3.1 apg, 1.35 spg  * E8 Rookie of the Year, E8 Honorable Mention SOPH
    A.J. Beaulieu - 7.6 ppg, 1.1 spg SOPH
    Albe Hulick - 5.6 ppg, 3.0 rpg SOPH
    Pat Dunnigan - 5.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg SENIOR

L - Tim Kindlon - 10.2 ppg
    Anthony Brown - 8.9 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 1.7 bpg

NEW - Kyle Phillips (6-7 C) Tristan Connolly (6-7 C) Darrell Howard (6-3 F)
      Mike Agostinoni (5-9 G) Cory Carson (6-4 Jr. G - D2 Mercyhurst 1.2 ppg)

ANALYSIS - Hartwick might finally have the foundation for a basketball-like substance in Binder Gymnasium this winter.  Reigning E8 Rookie of the Year Jan Coccoziello (too hard to spell, how bout Jan CooCooForCocoaPuffs?) returns with some other youngsters like A.J. Beaulieu to help out.  The scoring and size of Kindlon and Brown will fall on the shoulders of the two 6'7" freshmen Phillips and Connolly.  Carson probably won't have a big impact.  Watch out in a year or two but 'Wick might make a run at 5th for now.

UTICA (23-7, 11-3 Empire 8, NCAA Sweet 16)

R - Ray Bryant - 18.8 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.5 spg SENIOR
    *NABC 3rd Team All-America, D3hoops.com All-East 1st Team, Empire 8 1st Team
    Doug Herring - 10.9 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.6 spg SOPH
    Jack Lighthall - 5.4 ppg, 2.8 rpg SENIOR

L - Justin Cichon - 15.4 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.6 apg, 1.4 spg E8 1st Team
    Willie Lucas - 11.7 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.0 apg E8 Honorable Mention
    Shawn Brown - 5.4 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.5 bpg

NEW - Kevin Martin (6-0 Jr. G) Andy Jeffries (6-2 So. G) James McClendon (6-6 So. F)
      Dan Zuretti (6-1 G) Shaun Diaz (6-4 G) Patrick Goodman (6-5 F) Robert Whyte (6-7 F) 
     Andrew Preston (6-6 F)
      **Jeffries from Tompkins-Cortland C.C. 14.6 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 3.3 apg 2005-06
      **McClendon transfer from FDU-Florham 4.7 ppg, 3.2 rpg 2005-06

ANALYSIS - With Fisher having to rebuild/reload, Utica has a great shot at the E8 title and they'll rely on the chalk pick for MVP, Ray Bryant, to get them there.  Herring is a good point guard and they seem to have found a solid transfer in Andy Jeffries from TC3.  Coach Goodemote recruits well outside Upstate and makes inroads with Central Square native Jeffries.

ELMIRA (3-22, 0-14 Empire 8)

R - Joe Prunier - 10.4 ppg, 2.4 apg SENIOR
    Matt Keating - 9.4 ppg, 4.0 rpg SENIOR
    Nick Molak - 7.6 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 3.8 apg JUNIOR

L - Micah Owens - 17.7 ppg, 9.1 rpg E8 2nd Team
    James Brown - 5.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg

NEW - NOT AVAILABLE

ANALYSIS - Elmira hasn't posted its 2006-07 roster yet, I'll keep an eye out for newcomers, but given the state of that program I don't know what can help.  They were terrible even with Micah Owens, will EC even win a game without him?  We'll find out.

ITHACA (16-13, 9-5 Empire 8, ECAC Upstate Champions)

R - Sean Burton - 9.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.7 apg SOPH
    Brian Joe - 8.3 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.4 spg JUNIOR
    Dominic Scanlon - 6.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg JUNIOR
    Sean Stahn - 5.6 ppg, 4.3 rpg SENIOR
    Jeff Bostic - 4.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg SOPH, ECAC Tournament MVP
   
L - Jim Bellis - 18.1 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.8 spg E8 1st Team, d3hoops.com All-East 2nd team
    Brian Andruskiewicz - 9.9 ppg, 5.3 rpg
    Jonathan Whetstone - 6.7 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.8 spg

NEW - Tom Brown (6-5 C) Will Gaskins (6-2 G) Sean Leahy (6-7 So. F) Steve Pruzinsky (6-3 Jr. G)   
           Scott Ruffrage (6-0 Jr. G)

ANALYSIS - Looks dicey on paper but you know A)death B)taxes C)Ithaca winning 8 or 9 games in the E8.  Seems like a good corps of athletes returning to South Hill that'll be around beyond this season.  Long way to go to be in UC or Fisher's neighborhood.  Sean Leahy was listed on UAlbany's roster last year but must have redshirted or something.



Preview of western half of Empire 8 after the jump...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 06, 2006, 12:56:40 AM
NAZARETH (8-17, 5-9 Empire 8)

R - Joe Canori - 20.6 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.0 apg, 1.4 spg JUNIOR E8 2nd Team
    Ryan McAdam - 12.9 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 2.2 apg JUNIOR E8 Honorable Mention
    Kyle Nelson - 9.6 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 3.5 apg, 1.4 spg JUNIOR
    Tyler Smith - 7.1 ppg, 6.6 rpg JUNIOR
    Jeff DeHimer - 5.4 ppg, 3.1 rpg SOPH

L - Matt Groot - 7.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg

NEW - NOT AVAILABLE

ANALYSIS - Naz's updated roster not posted online yet either, but the addition of Cory McAdam only makes the Golden Flyers that much more dangerous, seems like they have great returning scoring and rebounding and none of it graduates this spring either.  Naz should probably win the league next year or the year after with this kind of talent but for now can they turn the potential into wins?

RIT (14-13, 8-6 Empire 8)

R - Barrett Zeinfeld - 13.1 ppg JUNIOR
    Tim Bacon - 10.2 ppg, 7.0 rpg SENIOR

L - Fran Snyder - 13.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.9 apg E8 1st Team
    Tyler Springer - 6.7 ppg, 2.8 apg
    Kris Kowalczyk - 6.2 ppg
    Brian Hill - 5.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg

NEW - Jim Torto (5-11 G) Aaron Marcotte (5-10 G) Obinna Ukachukwu (6-1 F) Adam Sweet (6-3 G)
      Scott Young (6-6 F) Ryan Rovito (6-6 C/F) Randy Muldrow (6-2 G) Kenny Gethers (6-3 Jr. G/F)
      Phil Leslie (6-6 Jr. C)
      **Gethers - NAIA Houghton College 2004-05; Onondaga CC 3rd team All-Region 2005-06
      **Leslie - Monroe C.C. served 5 years in the Army and fought in Iraq

ANALYSIS - RIT brings in a bunch of new guys including 26 year-old JUCO transfer and Iraq war veteran junior Phil Leslie.  Zeinfeld, Bacon and Gethers must overcome the loss of do-everything Fran Snyder.  Tigers are always well-coached, but will find themselves dueling with IC and Naz for a spot in the E8 tourney.

ALFRED (12-13, 6-8 Empire 8)

R - Dillon Stein - 13.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg SENIOR E8 Honorable Mention
    Rob McCarter - 9.8 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.0 apg SENIOR
    Ryan Clemenson - 6.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg JUNIOR

L - Quentin Bryant - 14.1 ppg, 3.5 rpg E8 2nd Team
    Ryan Hallett - 11.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg
    Todd Dersham - 11.2 ppg, 3.2 rpg
    Chris LeMasters - 8.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.2 apg

NEW - Chaz Best (5-11 G) Matt Johnson (6-0 G) James Simermeyer (6-2 F) Jon Maroney (6-0 G)
      Pat Smithgall (6-6 F) Josh Infante (5-11 G) Jared Patt (6-2 G) Jamie Waite (6-6 Jr. F)
      **Waite - 6.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg at Corning C.C. 2005-06

ANALYSIS - Stein can play some ball but he needs more out of Rob McCarter and his teammates if the Saxons are to do anything this season.  Losing Bryant hurts big time and they won't have Hallett or Dersham around either to pick up any slack.  Look for AU to slide behind Hartwick into 7th.

ST. JOHN FISHER (26-4, 13-1 Empire 8, NCAA Quarterfinals)

R - Justin Beigel - 9.5 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.7 apg JUNIOR E8 Honorable Mention
    Dan McSweeney - 9.3 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.1 bpg SENIOR E8 Honorable Mention
    Isaiah Smalt - 5.0 ppg, 3.6 rpg JUNIOR

L - Mike McGee - 13.1 ppg, 2.8 rpg E8 2nd Team
    Sean O'Brien - 12.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 6.4 apg, 1.7 spg
    **Empire 8 Player of the Year; d3hoops.com All-East Region 2nd Team
    Raymie Auman - 7.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg
    Nick Bennett - 7.5 ppg, 5.4 rpg E8 2nd Team
    Pete Gillett - 5.1 ppg

NEW - Mike Seiberg (6-7 F) Shannon Strange (6-3 G/F) Nick Lein (6-0 G) Chris O'Connell (6-0 G)
      Anders Alknes (6-3 G) Bill Lidell (6-0 G) Brandon Rosenthal (5-9 G) Matt Newman (6-1 G)
      Chris Baltz (6-3 G/F) Kyle Stevens (6-6 G/F) Dan Evans (6-8 F/C) Michael Wopperer (6-7 F)
      Matt Haley (6-6 F) Brandon Beigel (6-4 Jr. F)
      **Beigel - SJF baseball player first two years

ANALYSIS - Rob Kornaker obviously believes in strength in numbers with a large quantity recruiting class that hopes to somehow adequately replace E8 MVP Sean O'Brien and fellow stalwarts McGee and Bennett.  Beigel and McSweeney return to give the Cards a frontcourt advantage over most opponents but the questions seem to be on the guard play and the defense.  It's Fisher's league until someone proves otherwise...is that someone (Utica?) out there?


*****Why does the number "eight" randomly come out as a smiley face?*****
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on November 06, 2006, 03:43:59 PM
anybody know anything about the new Fisher recruits. Two guys from AZ, one from MD, and one from Norway?

looks like Kornaker hit the recruiting trail pretty hard.

any info is appreciated.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 06, 2006, 06:54:40 PM
Caz Bombers:  Great analysis of the E8 this year from the information available.  From the looks of it Utica should be back fighting for the top spot again this year. 

sjfcards:  I have some information on the recruits for SJFC.  From the looks of their roster there are 12 freshmen listed on the Varsity squad this year, with the loss of only 5 seniors, makes for a relatively large team.  However to the point.   Kornacker brought in a good mix of big guys (5-6 solid players 6'6 or bigger) and a very good pg in Matt Neuman from Campbell-Savona and the section 4 player of the year in Chris Baltz (SG).  Fisher has expanded its recruiting regions with 2 players from arizona, 1 norway, 2 cincinatti, 1 maryland.  Fisher lost 3 starting guards and their first 2 guard reserves from last years team,  look for Dan Mueller (only guard contributor from last years team) to start at the 2 spot.  Sophs bobby keirnan, mike mckeever, and Frosh. Matt Neuman to fight for the starting Point position and Jr. Mark Beardon, Adrien Fenyn, and Frosh. 6'6 Kyle Stevens to play the 3.  With that being said Fisher will have a lot of inexperience in the back court, but should be able to make up for it with their talent in the East region.  From talking with one of the coaches and a player, this freshman class maybe be one of the best the school has had.  The big guys brought in our big, descently strong for freshman and have excellent potential.  However, with beigal, mcsweeney, and smalt back from last year, there will be limit time and roles for the young forwards and centers brought in. 

Predictions for the E8 this year:

1. Fisher (won the league the last 4 years, may struggle in 1st half of year but will get better as the season goes on and players get experience.  However, much more vulnerable then last year)
2. Naz (Most talent but can they put it together? Young Mcadam should help lots)
3. Utica (depends on if theres any help from transfers or fresh)
4. RIT
5. Ithaca
6. Hartwick
7. Alfred
8. Elmira (Horrid)

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hooplafan on November 07, 2006, 02:52:36 PM
Baltz (Vestal/Vestal, NY) is going to be an unbelievable fit for St. John Fisher.  He graduated as the school's all-time leading scorer and gave a much more athletic, and talented Newburgh team a thriller in the state playoffs.  Their coach told me they thought he could've gone to a D-I school like Iona, Canisius, etc. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on November 07, 2006, 08:10:18 PM
Many thanks FisherDynasty and Hooplafan...

Nice to see that Fisher is in more of a reloading phase than a rebuilding one.

Hope some young guys can step in and contribute some quality guard play



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on November 07, 2006, 08:14:45 PM
Another quick note...I am not going to be able to make the trip up to Rochester for the Fisher scrimmage against Israel at Heart.
If anyone happens to check it out I would love to get a report. Anyone know anything about the Israel  at heart team?

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 09, 2006, 11:35:37 AM
Fisher beats Israel at Heart 70-63.  Looks like it was a tough game.   The box score showed Dan Mcsweeney scoring a game high 21 pts and FRESHMEN Chris Baltz following with 12pts in 18 minutes.  The rest of the scoring was distributed throughout pretty evenly.  Mcsweeney in my opinion is the best big man in the East region besided Jason Boone from NYU.  Also from the looks of the box score, there doesnt seem to be a set line-up yet, my guess the final starting line-up will not be concrete until 2nd semester, as coach kornacker finds out who plays well in actual games. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on November 09, 2006, 12:04:01 PM
There is absolutely no possible way that Baltz could have played at a place Iona or Canisius. Don't get me wrong he can play. He is the type of player that just gets it done but he isn't nearly athletic enough to play that level. I do think he will be a good player as Fisher but to say that D1s would've offered him a scholarship you would be drinking a little bit too much of that Fisherjuice.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 09, 2006, 01:57:42 PM
Agreed..
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 09, 2006, 01:58:40 PM
Althought Iona did just get beat by a D3 team that fisher could probably beat, but i get point taken, he is not nearly athletic enough.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on November 10, 2006, 12:31:07 PM
http://empire8.com/111006-1.html

Coaches pick UC to finish on top. I like it!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hooplafan on November 12, 2006, 09:08:26 AM
I think their coach was saying he'd be a good role player at that level - a spot up shooter off the bench.  He's very smooth, refined and just knows how to play the game.  I never said he'd be a star at that level, I simply repeated what their coach said.  I wish I still had the e-mail to share. 

However, like I said, he's the perfect fit for the Fisher system. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on November 12, 2006, 04:04:14 PM
Baltz could become an eventual replacement for Mike Mcgee, i Understand his quite smooth and has a nice shot
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on November 12, 2006, 04:24:03 PM
I agree with the early season rankings but think Naz could end fighting with Fisher for the number 2 spot.  BTW whats going on with Fisher with a 24 man roster, 14 new players including 13 freshman.  They still seem to have no one to run the point as Kiernan didnt seem to be the answer against Israel.  I see Biegel football paying brother made the team.  Does he have any talent or is he just a goon to be sent in when the brother needs an emotional rest?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on November 12, 2006, 05:13:26 PM
Took in Naz scrimmage today at Cortland. Corts shoot bigtime from outside and win first half by 10, second by five. Down the liners then trampled by CState spares.
Canori didn't have much of a day, but frosh C. McAdam a genuine keeper both dishing, driving and shooting. T. Smith and J. DeHimer noticeable inside against smaller Corts. Good hands people and strong. Scorers. Believe R. McAdam on bench with cast on left arm and thumb. See a K. Nelson listed on earlier post here among returnees. Don't see him on current roster
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on November 12, 2006, 07:30:33 PM
Sorry I meant Brandon Biegel the baseball playing brother of Justin,   Hey Jdex how did Mark Schaller do for cortland at the scrimage?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 09:08:44 PM
Will start checking in over here more often now that football is drawing to a close. I live in Rochester and might check out IC at the Resler tourney this weekend. Caz- working overtime with the analysis, that's what I like to see. Go Bombers.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on November 13, 2006, 12:44:28 AM
Schaller seeing action. Was a contributing role player a season ago but the 5-9 jr will really have to fight for court time now. Cortland is backcourt talented heavy
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 08:18:05 AM
I suppose Max is right, it is probably time to move to this board now that the football season is over.  Based on the posts I scanned, everyone is picking IC to finish in the middle of the pack again?

Any interesting freshmen or transfers in the league this year?  The Bombers brought in former E8 POY Kerri Brown's little brother. Who knows if he can play or not but an interesting family connection.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 13, 2006, 03:04:24 PM
Thanks for the good word, Max.

Update to my original preview post: Naz and Elmira have finally posted their rosters online.  For the Golden Flyers, Kyle Nelson - 9.6 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 3.5 apg, 1.4 spg in 2005-06- is not returning to the team, I think Naz can withstand his loss with all their other pieces.  Besides McAdam the Younger, 6-1 guards Rayvon Higdon and Phil Johanns are Naz's freshmen.

EC went the SJF route...11 freshmen and 2 JUCO transfers!!  They are: Chris Henderson (6-2 G) Jason Brown (6-2 G) Nick Woitach (6-3 G) Ranbir Sanghera (6-1 G) David Nelson (6-5 F) Jon Adamson (6-4 F) Stefan Nemecek (5-9 G) Palen Andreozzi (6-5 F) Bryan Mathews (5-10 G) Tyler McEnroe (6-2 G) KC Mendez (6-3 F) Toby Smalley (6-1 Jr. G Corning CC)  Derrick Shaw (6-3 Jr. F Alameda Calif. CC)

Jose, I think the coaches got it about right.  On paper Utica has the talent to overtake a rebuilding Fisher squad with Naz, IC and RIT the next group.  I like the direction Hartwick is going, but Alfred is sliding back and Elmira is starting from scratch.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 13, 2006, 07:06:59 PM
Hey guys-
Doin double time with the football boards-
How is the alma mater looking this year?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on November 14, 2006, 09:52:54 AM
here's some good footage on the SJFC bball teams
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 14, 2006, 10:08:38 AM
Where, Superman? Where?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on November 14, 2006, 11:25:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er_lDefXNb0
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 14, 2006, 03:40:22 PM
Anyone play any games this week?

Any good non-conference games before we get rolling with E8 weekends?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 14, 2006, 04:05:11 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 14, 2006, 03:40:22 PM
Anyone play any games this week?

Any good non-conference games before we get rolling with E8 weekends?

IC is at the Rochester tourney, they play UR, Geneseo, and Erie. Think I might hit up the UR game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 14, 2006, 05:43:03 PM
I predict UofR to beat ithaca by 20+, the game will be over a little after the 2nd half starts if not after the 15 minute mark.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on November 14, 2006, 09:21:50 PM
I think IC can hang with them for a while but UR will pull away and win by about 20.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 15, 2006, 12:21:19 AM
Thank you, thank you for saying what we already know. I'll bet Fisher would be Utica in football, too!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 12:26:09 AM
Basketball? hmmm.. Interesting....Oh Wait I actually have a SUNYAC Board and don't need to hang around the E8 like in football.   ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 12:50:41 AM
ya but brockport still sucks
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 12:53:40 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 12:50:41 AM
ya but brockport still sucks

Hey now that isn't very nice....I'll be sure to stay away!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 15, 2006, 02:23:14 AM
Ok, officially in basketball mode which is more up my alley. A few quick hits to catch up.

Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 09, 2006, 11:35:37 AM
Mcsweeney in my opinion is the best big man in the East region besided Jason Boone from NYU. 

Interesting argument. A tough one to make, too, considering McSweeney was outplayed by RIT's Tim Bacon in two of their three matchups. Also, what about Dillon Stein who was somewhat disappointing last year but has still been a rock in all three of his years with the Saxons? I'd say calling McSweeney the second best big man in the E8 may be a little bit ambitious (don't forget about how strong IC's Jeff Bostic came on at the end of last season), but to assert McSweeney is the second best big man in the whole Eastern Region is ludicrous. I'd be surprised if he was top ten, really.

Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 14, 2006, 05:43:03 PM
I predict UofR to beat ithaca by 20+, the game will be over a little after the 2nd half starts if not after the 15 minute mark.

Step further out on that limb.

As far as Naz goes, I'll believe it when I see it. Player for player, probably the most talent in the entire conference. I'm not hesitant one bit when I say that. With that said, poor coaching and an unwitting refusal to play anything that resembles defense has been their undoing in their last two seasons. It doesn't much matter if you're scoring 75+/game when you're giving up about the same amount each night. The big question is can Naz be consistent this year and realize their season doesn't revolve around two or three games against Fisher? I think they make the E8 tourney but I guarantee we will be disappointed with that team.

I also wouldn't be surprised if both IC and RIT beat Naz out for the last spots in the E8 tourney. With all due respect, losing Whetstone could be considered an addition by subtraction. He had his moments but he made too many poor decisions with the basketball. It hurts to lose Andruskiewicz but he really disappointed me last year. I don't know what the deal was with him last year (heard he was never 100%) but he definitely didn't meet expectations, leading to him losing his starting job to Bostic in the postseason. I think Ithaca, much like RIT, will live and die by the outside shot. I think Burton and Joe will be putting up a lot of 3's this year. Hopefully, however, Ithaca will pound it inside with Bostic and Stahn as I do think that's the strength of this year's team.

That's enough for one post.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 15, 2006, 09:12:12 AM
We'll have to wait and see to know exactly who the best big man is, and may not even know I'm sure u will be able to make arguments about a number of big men in the area.  However, I feel the past 2 season Mcsweeney has underachieved.  When you have so many other good players on one team, it is much harder to stand out.  (RIT Tim bacon was their best player, besides an overrated Fran snyder, and same with Alred and dillan stein being the go to go if you will.  This year, Mcsweeney is Fisher's go to guy and we will see how much he has improved.  I know over the summer he played on the Open Empire team and started along side with Terrance Roberts, again doesnt mean hes the best in the area, but I know he is much improved and being a 5th year senior is old and mature enough to dominate.   Athletically, him and Onyrikeka are the 2 most athletic big man in the area for sure.  We'll see if he puts it together. 

On another note, I def agree with you on Naz, who the hell knows how their gonna play, I have a feeling they will be some very good teams then lose to some not so good, just like last year.  However, the jump from soph. to Junior year is huge, so maybe they will finally put it together. As for Ithaca, I just think they will be left outta the loop on the E8 tourny this year, they lost the only 2 basketball players in bellis and Andruskiewicz.  I know bostic came on at the end, but hes not there yet and stahn isnt really a player just a big body.  I have IC finishing 5 or 6th
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on November 15, 2006, 09:50:48 AM
You must remember that UofR has a bunch of bigs that are very good. I saw McSweeney play a little a couple of years ago when they were routed by Potsdam, I wasn't impressed. Given that was two full years ago and I'm sure he has improved but not enough to be given the best in the east region moniker.  Let's just say that he is one of the better bigs in the Rochester college area not the East region.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2006, 09:56:41 AM
nice to see that this board hasnt changed!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 15, 2006, 10:19:53 AM
Mcsweeney dropped 20 on U of R last year and dunked on Onyrika twice.  However, you are right, he def should not be included with the best big men in the area until proven, and although he had a few good games last year, he shouldnt be included yet. I was just stating my opinion. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on November 15, 2006, 10:39:45 AM
It's hard to disagree with the E8 Coachs' prediction for Conference Champ (UC), but beyond that I think everyone is guessing. 

Naz third?  What exactly has that team done to make anyone think they're capable of that?  They're no longer the "up and coming" bunch of underclassmen everyone expects to be great some day -- this is the season they need to prove it to people.  I'm skeptical.

I think Fisher could finish anywhere in the top four.  The freshman mentioned from Campbell-Savona was a nice highschool player, but I don't he'll be running the show for them this year.  Their guard play has been rock solid for the last four years and now it's a question mark. 

RIT and Utica both brought in juniors from CC's who look like they could have an impact on teams that already have talent. 

Ithaca always left me thinking "how the hell did that team just win?" after their games.  They put together a nice run at the end of last season, but the three lost seniors were a big part of their program the last four years.  I think they'll struggle to make the tourney.

Hartwick could build on last season's promise and move up a spot or two, but they certainly aren't championship contenders yet. 

EU and AU are going to be near the bottom of the standings again.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 15, 2006, 10:40:21 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 15, 2006, 02:23:14 AM
With all due respect, losing Whetstone could be considered an addition by subtraction.

Not completely... signed on as an assistant coach! Maybe his bad decisions won't trickle down.....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 15, 2006, 11:22:51 AM
D & C has an article on Fisher:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061115/SPORTS09/611150359/1007/SPORTS

And a complete preview (although again, no Ithaca):

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061115/SPORTS09/611150361/1007/SPORTS
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 15, 2006, 12:51:25 PM
Bamm, congrats to you for obvious reasons. Also, thanks for making my life miserable, too. Between you and TF2, a certain someone is clamoring for equal treatment.

I'm glad you are as skeptical about Naz as I am. Corey MacAdam is a stud but he's also very young. In general, they have been a huge disappointment over the last two years. As far as Ithaca goes, the loss of Bellis will leave a huge void. I really have no clue who the go-to-guy is going to be this season. Eventually, I think it'll be Bostic but in the early going it will be have to be by committee. The Bombers are always in the E8 Tourney because the play well on their home court. Each year they are usually 5-2'ish or 6-1 in the conference at home. All they would have to do is play .500 ball on the road and they were in; Hartwick/Elmira were very accomodating in that sense.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2006, 01:51:08 PM
UC was predicted to be conference champ?
wow- havent heard a peep in the utica od---
they are usually up on those things
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 15, 2006, 02:50:54 PM
I agree that UC should be #1 in the conference right now. Fisher just lost too much. I'm sure they'll reload but losing their two leaders (Bennett and O'Brien) may be the difference between the two teams. However, as I said last year, Utica has to do better in their trips to Rochester. The were 1-3 against Fisher/RIT/Naz in the Flower City.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 15, 2006, 03:12:07 PM
Good chance for IC to get off to a quick start in conference play. First five conference games:

vs. Elmira
vs. Hartwick
vs. Utica
vs. Naz
vs. RIT

Five home games before they hit the road. Did Jim Boeheim make this schedule?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on November 15, 2006, 06:47:26 PM
Can anyone tell me why Ithaca is not better at basketball. It seem to me they are a sleeping giant. I know they have had some success, but they are not a powerhouse year in and year out like they are in so many other sports.
It has always seemed like they have all the peices to compete with a Fisher or UC.
They just don't. Why?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 15, 2006, 07:04:27 PM
The women were a powerhouse back during the Cleary/Brown days, but they've also stumbled recently. It's a good question, one that Jose would be better to answer.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 15, 2006, 07:15:13 PM
UC has a tough early season schedule and a lot of new guys trying to fill roles of some key players. A lot of talent, but they need to hope the early season tough games don't bite them. They have some height this year.


On a side note, kind of cool seeing coach Murphy, formerly of Hamilton, coaching against Syracuse right now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on November 15, 2006, 10:50:37 PM
GB15 -- Thanks, and stay strong.  Tell her to heed the lessons of drug education, and she need not succumb to peer pressure.

It looks like there aren't a lot of tough out of conference games for E8 contenders this season, unfortunately.  The Rochester schools have their annual bouts with UR, and Alfred looks like they'll take beatings at NYU and Randolph Macon -- but other than that not a ton of traveling. 

No word on who Fisher will be playing in Pennsylvania around Christmas for the York tourney.  Other than that -- RIT, Utica, and Ithaca have all filled their schedules with upstate NY teams. 

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 16, 2006, 12:02:13 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on November 15, 2006, 06:47:26 PM
Can anyone tell me why Ithaca is not better at basketball. It seem to me they are a sleeping giant. I know they have had some success, but they are not a powerhouse year in and year out like they are in so many other sports.
It has always seemed like they have all the peices to compete with a Fisher or UC.
They just don't. Why?

For one, Mullins is a terrible coach. You will hear similar statements from me throughout the season. Secondly, Ithaca basketball just doesn't have the tradition that some of the other sports have. The football and baseball teams have been dominant for a long time. The softball team has won a national championship recently and made it to the College World Series against last year. Third, there's a combination of mediocre facilities and very little fan support. As much as I admire The Bulb, it's nothing to write home about. Moreover, the stands are usually 2/3 empty for most home games...if you were a recruit, would that be an attractive place to play? I know Fisher has a little bandbox but that's a fun environment to play in. Finally, I just think basketball isn't as important at Ithaca as it is at Fisher or RIT. I really have no evidence to back up that assertion; just a general gut feeling I had when I was a student at IC.

As a former player, I'm sure Jose can bring more specifics to the table. However, you're right, Ithaca has had some fine players over the years in Ty Schultz, Bellis, Jon Lyons, Dane Fischer, Jason Wallen, that other really good guy who left the year before I got there (forget his name). They just need to be able to get more talent to that school.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 16, 2006, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: bamm on November 15, 2006, 10:50:37 PM
No word on who Fisher will be playing in Pennsylvania around Christmas for the York tourney. 

Fisher will be playing Cortland in the first game and then either the host school YCP or Susquehanna.

GB15--Pat Britton is who you're thinking of.  More information on the All-American ex-Bomber here, with credit to former IC Assistant SID extraordinaire Amy (Ward) Tagliareni: https://ithaca.edu/icq/2000v3/ss2.htm
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 16, 2006, 10:10:34 AM
Hmmm, the problem with Ithaca Basketball.

I actually think the points raised by GB15 are pretty ancillary.  Mullins is not a bad coach, the fan support is prett irrelevant because the fan support is awesome when we are winning, and the school's dedication to the sport isn't any different than to other sports.  I think softball is a good example, they didn't have any strong history until about five or six years ago, so I don't think that is it either.  (They also have terrible facilities).

I think the facilities are a problem.  Ben Light (I refuse to use that other name) is not great but not really that much worse than any place I played in NYS or any place that recruited me.  Who knows what the new A&E Center will bring but, from what I hear, no hoop will be played there.

I think there are two problems: 1) Mullins inherited a program with some deep problems when he became the interim head coach in 1997-98 and 2) IC has been a victim of its own recruiting success. 

1) I am not going to get into the specifics of what went on but, suffice it to say Mullins was handed a broken ship.  He had no staff and really no roster depth.  It takes a few years to come back from that.  He got Dobbs, but then had no JV coach.  Lost a good JV coach in Raymond, then used stop gaps until he found this new guy who seems pretty good.  I know you are saying JV seems irrelevant but I think it plays into point 2.

2) Say what you want about Mullins, but you can't argue with his ability to recruit.  He brings in tons of talent and, as a former recruit, I can tell you that he is damn good at it.  But, I think the problem is too much talent comes in.  When you get 4 good guards of comparable ability, eventually 2-3 end up quitting. This is where a healthy JV program would have helped over the years to keep at least one of those players happy.  But, that program was in shambles for a while so a lot of talent quit.  We won 1 E8 title and nearly a second in the 4 years I was there.  Over that time we had enough talent quit to win at least two more.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 16, 2006, 11:11:56 AM
Hmm idk i think im going to swing both ways on this won, I don't think mullins is a bad coach, as to me, they have seemed to over achieve the past few years.  And I am going to have to disagree with Jose on having too much talent.  Lets be serious, idk maybe like 7 or 8 years a ago that was the case, but by no means did Ithaca have to much talent the past 6.  If you ask me, the talent was below average, I wondered how they did as well as they did (I think its bc of mullins coaching and they're good at home).  But too much talent is absurd.  Fisher's guards on the JV team would have been stars on Ithaca.  And you are right, Ithaca should have a JV team to keep the excess guards around incase they improve better then the players starting over them, like Fisher does.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 16, 2006, 11:18:02 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 16, 2006, 11:11:56 AM
Hmm idk i think im going to swing both ways on this won, I don't think mullins is a bad coach, as to me, they have seemed to over achieve the past few years.  And I am going to have to disagree with Jose on having too much talent.  Lets be serious, idk maybe like 7 or 8 years a ago that was the case, but by no means did Ithaca have to much talent the past 6.  If you ask me, the talent was below average, I wondered how they did as well as they did (I think its bc of mullins coaching and they're good at home).  But too much talent is absurd.  Fisher's guards on the JV team would have been stars on Ithaca.  And you are right, Ithaca should have a JV team to keep the excess guards around incase they improve better then the players starting over them, like Fisher does.

I didn't mean to imply that Ithaca doesn't have a JV team.  I was saying there was a stop gap coaching situation on JV that caused a lot of those kids to quit playing.

I also understand what you are saying about the talent at IC.  But I think you are basing your analysis on the talent that has been on the roster.  This sort of supplements my point.  Mullins has been succesful bringing in a lot of players but, ends up having a lot of them quit.  Therefore the talent that ends up on the final roster doesn't reflect the strength of his recruiting classes.  The reason many of them quit is outlined in my previous post.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 16, 2006, 11:22:44 AM
Ahh gotcha, I hear where your coming from.  Thats too bad, Ithaca doesnt seem like it would be a program where that would happen too. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 16, 2006, 11:24:44 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 16, 2006, 11:22:44 AM
Ahh gotcha, I hear where your coming from.  Thats too bad, Ithaca doesnt seem like it would be a program where that would happen too. 

I think it is hard enough to keep kids on a D3 roster given that coaches lack the hammer of a scholarship.  I mean, if you quit on Billy Donovan you lose your college money.  Kids can hold this over the heads of their coaches at this level because there is really no recourse for quitting (short of not getting to play hoop anymore).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 01:25:34 PM
This just came out over the wire:


ITHACA PICKED FOURTH IN EMPIRE 8 PRESEASON POLL

The Bombers were picked fourth in the Empire 8 preseason poll, as voted
on by the league's men's basketball coaches.

1. Utica (five), 47 points
2. St. John Fisher (three), 44
3. Nazareth, 34
4. ITHACA, 33
5. Rochester Institute of Technology, 25
6. Hartwick, 18
7. Alfred, 14
8. Elmira, 11


Looks like the coaches think Ithaca has half a chance at a 3 seed in the tourney....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 16, 2006, 01:49:26 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 01:25:34 PM
This just came out over the wire:


ITHACA PICKED FOURTH IN EMPIRE 8 PRESEASON POLL

The Bombers were picked fourth in the Empire 8 preseason poll, as voted
on by the league's men's basketball coaches.

1. Utica (five), 47 points
2. St. John Fisher (three), 44
3. Nazareth, 34
4. ITHACA, 33
5. Rochester Institute of Technology, 25
6. Hartwick, 18
7. Alfred, 14
8. Elmira, 11


Looks like the coaches think Ithaca has half a chance at a 3 seed in the tourney....

Will UC be good enough that a 4 seed in the tournament means as little as it meant in previous years (when we got wiped out by Fisher)?  Or, will there be some pretty good parity in the league?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 16, 2006, 02:06:54 PM
Definately alot of Parity, as of right now the league is up for grabs.  Come E8 tourny time, it will be who is hot that weekend.  Then again, expect fisher who is young this year to be much better at the end of the year, so this year should be interesting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 16, 2006, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 16, 2006, 02:06:54 PM
Definately alot of Parity, as of right now the league is up for grabs.  Come E8 tourny time, it will be who is hot that weekend.  Then again, expect fisher who is young this year to be much better at the end of the year, so this year should be interesting.

The problem with young teams is, even though they are much better near the end, they get into such a hole early that it is too late.  Especially with the E8 format of only half the teams qualifying.  Are the bottom 4 bad enough that it won't keep a team that struggles early out?  (I think IC has at least some youth issues losing three seniors).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 16, 2006, 02:17:49 PM
Agreed jose,  especially if they do make it, being a more veteran team in a big game is a lot tougher for a younger team.  However, the E8 is a very weak conference, and although fisher is inexperienced at the guard spots, I can and probably will be as good if not better then any team in the conference.  So, more likely then not they will be in the final 4 teams that make the E8 tourny, I see them at most losing 4 games in the league.  However, if/when they make it, we'll see how they do in the e8 tourny, I'm am unsure if the E8 will get 2 teams in the NCAA tournament this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 16, 2006, 04:56:50 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 16, 2006, 01:49:26 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 01:25:34 PM
This just came out over the wire:


ITHACA PICKED FOURTH IN EMPIRE 8 PRESEASON POLL

The Bombers were picked fourth in the Empire 8 preseason poll, as voted
on by the league's men's basketball coaches.

1. Utica (five), 47 points
2. St. John Fisher (three), 44
3. Nazareth, 34
4. ITHACA, 33
5. Rochester Institute of Technology, 25
6. Hartwick, 18
7. Alfred, 14
8. Elmira, 11


Looks like the coaches think Ithaca has half a chance at a 3 seed in the tourney....

Will UC be good enough that a 4 seed in the tournament means as little as it meant in previous years (when we got wiped out by Fisher)?  Or, will there be some pretty good parity in the league?

The 4-seed was not irrelevant last year as RIT had Fisher on the ropes for much of that game but just couldn't make the plays at the end.

I can speak to Jose's point about talent quitting at Ithaca. Although for different reasons than Jose outlined, both Sean Clifford and Nate Newton quite early on in their careers. Both would have been tremendous players in their Junior and Senior years. I was pretty good friends with Nate and he would have been a force.  The guy passed very well for a big guy, had refined post moves and could step out and hit a 3-pointer at a good clip. It's too bad that those guys didn't stick with it.

Quote from: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 01:25:34 PM
This just came out over the wire:


ITHACA PICKED FOURTH IN EMPIRE 8 PRESEASON POLL

The Bombers were picked fourth in the Empire 8 preseason poll, as voted
on by the league’s men’s basketball coaches.

1. Utica (five), 47 points
2. St. John Fisher (three), 44
3. Nazareth, 34
4. ITHACA, 33
5. Rochester Institute of Technology, 25
6. Hartwick, 18
7. Alfred, 14
8. Elmira, 11


Looks like the coaches think Ithaca has half a chance at a 3 seed in the tourney....

Looks about right. As I've said before, Utica and Fisher are the consensus top two teams. In the next tier, in no particular order, you have Ithaca/RIT/Naz. I think Hartwick and Alfred have about the same amount of talent and Elmira is definitely the worst team in the league.

I have heard from people around the basketball program that Sean Burton is going to make the leap this season. I mentioned several times last year that he could have put up the numbers that Cocozziello was putting up had he been in a similar situation. I feel like the Bombers are in good hands over the next three years.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 16, 2006, 05:28:33 PM
GB15 message
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 09:02:15 PM
I'll be at the UR-IC game tomorrow... anyone else? Is there a UAA board?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 16, 2006, 09:57:23 PM
UAA board is in Multi-Regional Topics...unlikely that I'll be seeing IC or any E8 team in person this year, might try to catch a New Paltz home game when some of the better SUNYAC teams come through.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 16, 2006, 10:35:26 PM
After last season, I can't remember being so excited about the start of a new one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: empire8zone on November 17, 2006, 08:43:41 AM
Welcome to a new season everyone! Looks like everyone is pumped for the start of the season.

I have been so pumped that I have created an Empire 8 blog for all of your enjoyment throughout the season:

It can be found at: http://www.empire8zone.com and on Facebook: Group; Empire 8 Zone.

I have made predictions for the various games tonight and tomorrow!

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2006, 02:45:21 PM
Has anybody mentioned that UC's Bryant could miss the season pending his penalty for soliciting a prostitute?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 17, 2006, 02:49:43 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2006, 02:45:21 PM
Has anybody mentioned that UC's Bryant could miss the season pending his penalty for soliciting a prostitute?

Uhhhh, not that I know of.

Link?


BTW- FA91- whos your team in Bball? Alum pride or proximity pride?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 17, 2006, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2006, 02:45:21 PM
Has anybody mentioned that UC's Bryant could miss the season pending his penalty for soliciting a prostitute?


No, and unless it happened in the last 5 days I find it very hard to believe.

I did however, hear about a lot of the Fisher players who got in a big brawl, one got his nose broke, this summer. They were picked up by the police and left in a parking lot to settle it with no charges against them. My friend called me as it was happening in the background.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2006, 03:00:42 PM
http://www.uticaod.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061117/SPORTS/611170315/1030

hate to say it UC grad----but you may want to read this!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2006, 03:01:49 PM
Ill save ya some time---

"Bryant was charged by Utica police with soliciting a prostitute earlier this year, and the case has yet to be resolved. Goodemote said he does not know what the timetable is. UC athletic director Jim Spartano said he doesn't know if there will be any repercussions as far as eligibility. "
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 17, 2006, 03:02:50 PM
Yeah, I just read it in the OD.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 17, 2006, 03:03:38 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2006, 03:00:42 PM
http://www.uticaod.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061117/SPORTS/611170315/1030

hate to say it UC grad----but you may want to read this!!!

Thats funny, I saw it as you posted this.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2006, 03:04:20 PM
sorry-
read it daily and that jumped off the page!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 17, 2006, 03:08:16 PM
I'm surprised I didn't hear about it before now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2006, 03:17:08 PM
yeah -
was dissapointing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 17, 2006, 03:29:34 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2006, 03:17:08 PM
yeah -
was dissapointing.

I agree. Who knows what the story is, you know how bleeker street is, you could approach a hooker without even knowing that you did.

One of my friends had one approach him, she offered for 15 bucks. He said that all he had was 5 dollars and he wanted to buy a soda.


Either way, time will tell. I'm just about to leave for Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2006, 03:37:28 PM
wasnt bleecker st.- but thats ok--

part of Mayor Julian's Weed and Seed program....

undercover female cop...bad part of town......

you get the pict.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 17, 2006, 05:02:44 PM
Wow, what a shame.  So basically, the one thing we knew for sure about the E8 was Ray Bryant.  Without him, the whole thing appears to be up in the air...right?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2006, 05:11:54 PM
With Bryant, I think Utica wins the league.  Without him, I'm not bullish on Utica making the E8 tournament.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 17, 2006, 05:17:44 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2006, 05:11:54 PM
With Bryant, I think Utica wins the league.  Without him, I'm not bullish on Utica making the E8 tournament.

Stop saying "bullish".
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 17, 2006, 05:21:45 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2006, 05:11:54 PM
With Bryant, I think Utica wins the league.  Without him, I'm not bullish on Utica making the E8 tournament.

Way to be Teddy Roosevelt.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on November 17, 2006, 10:41:51 PM
Lets get some scores up on here!

I know UC won and Hartwick lost to Hamilton. 

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2006, 11:11:31 PM
Rochester 81, Ithaca 72.  I'm actually really happy we kept it in single digits, not a win, but it's a start.

Sean Stahn had 17 points, 8 rebounds and 4 steals for IC.  Sean Leahy had 14 points, 6 rebounds and 4 assists in his first Bomber action.  14 points and 9 assists for Sean Burton.  Five in double figures for Rochacha led by Tom Brackney (18 points) and Uche Ndubizu (15 and 11).  UR enjoyed a 43-18 free throw advantage.  Bombers within 5 with 11 seconds left.

Ithaca plays Geneseo tomorrow at 1 p.m.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2006, 11:19:21 PM
Naz blasted D3 newbie Morrisville 91-69 and will play Fredonia tomorrow for the tourney title.  Joe Canori tallied 25 points and Tyler Smith a career-high 23 with 7 boards.  Corey McAdam not far shy of a triple double with 9, 9 and 7 in his college debut (I guess that's still a nothing-double).  Dodrick Spencer had 19 and 8 for Morrisville.

Penn State-Behrend over Elmira 65-50.  EC to play D'Youville tomorrow.  KC Mendez with 16 in his first game with the Absolutely-Not-Soaring Eagles.  Kevin Buczynski does man's work for PS-B with 28 points, 12 rebounds, 2 blocks and a steal.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 17, 2006, 11:34:17 PM
UC wins 104-37.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 17, 2006, 11:35:53 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2006, 03:37:28 PM
wasnt bleecker st.- but thats ok--

part of Mayor Julian's Weed and Seed program....

undercover female cop...bad part of town......

you get the pict.


Just got back. It wasn't as cut and dry as it sounds on the outside looking in. It was dumb, but it wasn't exactly what it sounds like.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2006, 11:38:57 PM
Whew.  D3.com scoreboard had the score reversed, which obviously shocked me for a second.  "Holy crap, Utica really does miss Ray Bryant....waaaaaaittt a minute, Paul Smith College of Forestry and Not Being Good at Basketball?  That unpossible!  Shenanigans!!"
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 17, 2006, 11:41:01 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2006, 11:38:57 PM
Whew.  D3.com scoreboard had the score reversed, which obviously shocked me for a second.  "Holy crap, Utica really does miss Ray Bryant....waaaaaaittt a minute, Paul Smith College of Forestry and Not Being Good at Basketball?  That unpossible!  Shenanigans!!"

Ray played. Not a lot, but he was in the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 18, 2006, 12:13:04 AM
Hey folks, back from IC-UR...

IC looked like **** in the first half. Really, awful, complete ****. Not moving on offense, leaving peeps wide open on defense, no rebounds, no jump shots, missed passes, the whole nine yards. I had predicted that we would keep it within ten and then Rochester would pull away, but the opposite happened. The boys came out and put together a nice second half, didn't foul themselves out of the game, and honestly made a run at the end that almost looked like they had a shot at something.

I would say that this leaves me optimistic, but the first half looked a lot more like what the real IC team was than the second half. Hopefully Mullins will prove me wrong.

Might be in Ithaca for the Hobart game on 12/2, but other than that looks like I won't see them again until late January at Fisher. 'Til then, then.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 18, 2006, 10:20:42 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 18, 2006, 12:13:04 AM
I would say that this leaves me optimistic, but the first half looked a lot more like what the real IC team was than the second half. Hopefully Mullins will prove me wrong.

I would say this is a little quick to reach a conclusion about the club.  They have played 2 halves.  Let them play a little more before we decide the identity of the team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 18, 2006, 05:23:27 PM
I'm not reaching a conclusion... I'm just saying the second half looked more lucky than the first half looked unlucky. Like I said I'm still optimistic.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 18, 2006, 07:45:32 PM
78-67 Geneseo beats IC despite the best efforts of Leahy (16 points) and Burton (9 assists).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 18, 2006, 07:47:59 PM
UC beats Suny IT 99-83.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 18, 2006, 07:49:56 PM
Doug Herring tournament MVP. Jack Lighthall all tournament team. UC plays well as a team, had several good performances again.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on November 19, 2006, 08:39:14 PM
so I watched some of the girls game yesterday...the freshman are looking good. they have a 6'1 girl that looks like she could be the next Hartmen
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 20, 2006, 12:58:30 AM
Superman57, why don't you post that on the women's E8 board and help drive some traffic over that way.  They need it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2006, 03:45:56 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2006, 11:38:57 PM
Whew.  D3.com scoreboard had the score reversed, which obviously shocked me for a second.  "Holy crap, Utica really does miss Ray Bryant....waaaaaaittt a minute, Paul Smith College of Forestry and Not Being Good at Basketball?  That unpossible!  Shenanigans!!"

Some people posting scores can't manage the simple stuff. :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 20, 2006, 08:06:21 AM
Still locked into the football season, but from many accounts Fisher has been tagged to be 2nd in the league.  I understand grad hit hard- when will be a true test to see where they are?

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 20, 2006, 09:04:47 AM
Tough weekend for Ithaca.  Just looked at both box scores.  Not sure how good defensively UR and Geneseo are but, the bombers were right abour 38 percent from the field on the weekend.  Also, they put up 36 threes in two games.  I love to shoot it but, I gotta think all the attempts are evidence of no faith in the interior game?  Maybe this will change when Bostic gets his basketball legs under him.

EDIT:  Pretty impressive that our Sophomore PG had 9 assists in each game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on November 20, 2006, 12:23:40 PM
Yeah, Burton was the only one that looked like he had a clue against UR, although Bostic played well at the end. UR is just a great team. I don't know much about Geneseo and didn't see that game though.

You are right; a lot of attempts from the outside, not much movement to the paint and when it happened it wasn't pretty. Must've seen 4-5 air balls.

I think it must have been an intimidation thing with UR... not sure about Geneseo. I think the Bombers still have a lot to show us.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 20, 2006, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 20, 2006, 12:23:40 PM
Yeah, Burton was the only one that looked like he had a clue against UR, although Bostic played well at the end. UR is just a great team. I don't know much about Geneseo and didn't see that game though.

You are right; a lot of attempts from the outside, not much movement to the paint and when it happened it wasn't pretty. Must've seen 4-5 air balls.

I think it must have been an intimidation thing with UR... not sure about Geneseo. I think the Bombers still have a lot to show us.

I was under the impression that our frontcourt was going to be a strong point this year with Stahn and Bostic returning. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 20, 2006, 01:10:56 PM
No offense, but the reason burton is the only one who looked like he had a clue, is because he is the only actually player in my opinion on Ithaca.  But, I am surprised they only lost by 12 or so against a pretty good U of R team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 20, 2006, 01:30:22 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 20, 2006, 01:10:56 PM
No offense, but the reason burton is the only one who looked like he had a clue, is because he is the only actually player in my opinion on Ithaca.  But, I am surprised they only lost by 12 or so against a pretty good U of R team.

I won't be offended but, then again, I have never seen any of the current players actually play.  I gotta think at least Bostic would qualify being E8 Freshman of the Year and MVP of the ECAC...right?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 20, 2006, 01:41:32 PM
Cocoziello from Hartwick was E8 fresh of the year wasn't he? but I hear where your coming from. He came on late last year, I guess I havn't seen him play enough to make a complete judgment.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 20, 2006, 02:40:07 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 20, 2006, 01:41:32 PM
Cocoziello from Hartwick was E8 fresh of the year wasn't he? but I hear where your coming from. He came on late last year, I guess I havn't seen him play enough to make a complete judgment.

I think you are right.  He still was a bright spot late last season.

I also haven't ever seen Stahn play but allegedly he isn't too shabby either.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on November 20, 2006, 04:02:13 PM
Bostic has the potential to be a stud, he could similar to Onyirucka (sp??) from UofR if he worked at it. I do know that he played football last year, did he play again? If he did that could be one of the reasons for his lack of dominance. Remember he played against a couple of very good bigs from UofR also. And for that matter Geneseo has a couple of bigs that are pretty good also, not up to UofR's but still pretty good.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 20, 2006, 04:08:36 PM
Quote from: slickyquick on November 20, 2006, 04:02:13 PM
Bostic has the potential to be a stud, he could similar to Onyirucka (sp??) from UofR if he worked at it. I do know that he played football last year, did he play again? If he did that could be one of the reasons for his lack of dominance. Remember he played against a couple of very good bigs from UofR also. And for that matter Geneseo has a couple of bigs that are pretty good also, not up to UofR's but still pretty good.

Bostic did play football again.  I agree about how that effects his early season performance.  In fact, he didn't start the UR game, we started a 6-5 freshman (Brown) at C.  Ironic with this discussion of IC's front court that Leahy was named E8 freshman of the week.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 20, 2006, 04:51:56 PM
Talked to someone yesterday who is relatively close to the basketball program and went to both games in the Roc this past weekend. Here were his general observations:

1) Re: Sean Burton- Kid is the perfect floor general. Looks to get others involved first but is a potent outside shooter. In the source's opinion, it's a two-horse race between Herring of UC and Burton for the All-Conference PG spot. Obviously, he had an impressive game against UR. In fact, does anyone remember the last time any Ithaca player had more than five assists in consecutive games (let alone 9!).  The kid averaged 13.5 and 9.0 assists against pretty solid competition. He is the least of my worries.

2) Re: Sean Stahn- Same thing, different year. Shows the ability to be one of the better forwards in the league on some nights, while on either nights he's non-existent. Look at the solid numbers against UR (8-13 FG, 17 pts, 8 rebs, 4 steals) and then his numbers against Geneseo (1-3, 2 pts, 7 rebs). You would think that those would be reversed. Part of that may be caused by Mullins trying to get a look at a lot of players in the consolation game of a tournament that will have no bearing on whether the Bombers make the NCAA's (that basically comes down to winning the E8 tourney). I really think Stahn could be a second teamer on the All-Conference team if he brought it every night; the problem is that he doesn't bring it every night.

3) Re: Leahy- He was the biggest surprise of the weekend. He's going to be a very good player and may be the go-to-guy by the middle of the  year. He has some size (6'7'') but prefers the perimeter game and he's not afraid to go to the hoop. Doesn't spend a lot of time down on the blocks, as that is where Bostic and Stahn will be stationed. Not as athletic as a guy like Jimmy Bellis but has a smoother game than Bellis. The kid is a good athlete, though, as he did play on three state champion lacrosse teams at West Genny.

4) Re: Bostic- Yeah, as others have said, he just doesn't have his basketball legs yet. When I was in HS, we had some football players on the basketball team and it would always take them 4-6 games to get back in basketball shape. Apparently, he was lagging pretty bad during Saturday's game and still had 8pts, 7 rebs in only 22 minutes. He'll be fine in a couple of weeks.

5) Free Throw Shooting- Atrocious again. Ithaca went 19-36 in their first two games (just under 53%). This has killed Ithaca for the last couple of years. I just don't understand it. Why are we such bad FT shooters? I mean, if we shoot 70% from the line, which is more than reasonable for a D3 team, it would have been tight coming down the stretch in both of those games and who knows what would have happened. They really need to improve in this regard.

6) Get Dom Some Minutes- As in Dominic Scanlon. It sounded like he brings a lot of energy the team. Also, he's a good rebounder for his size at 6'2''.

7) Please Stop Chucking- That may be the subject line in an email to Brian Joe unless he can start putting the ball in the basket. Sure, it was only one game, but he slumped a lot of last year, too, enough to lose his starting job to Brad Clemente.

That's all for now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 20, 2006, 04:58:32 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 20, 2006, 04:51:56 PM
1) Re: Sean Burton- Kid is the perfect floor general. Looks to get others involved first but is a potent outside shooter. In the source's opinion, it's a two-horse race between Herring of UC and Burton for the All-Conference PG spot. Obviously, he had an impressive game against UR. In fact, does anyone remember the last time any Ithaca player had more than five assists in consecutive games (let alone 9!).  The kid averaged 13.5 and 9.0 assists against pretty solid competition. He is the
least of my worries.

Dane Fischer had a handful of dougle digit assist games.

Also I would look at either Joe Murray or John Lyons in 1999-2000.  There were a lot of good scorers on that team which equals a lot of assists for the guys that had their hands on the ball alot.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 20, 2006, 05:17:19 PM
Looking at this week's schedule:

Utica hosts Cazenovia tonight and should destroy them.  Tomorrow 2 key clashes in the Flower City as Naz is at UR and Fisher opens at home against Brockport; we'd like SJF to win and Naz to keep it as close as IC did. Also Cortland at Elmira, Hartwick at Mass. College of Liberal Arts and Hilbert at Alfred.  'Wick and AU should win but EC will likely get beat down.

Saturday has Hartwick hosting SUNY Maritime (win) and SJF going to D'Youville (ditto).  Sunday Elmira is at Pitt-Bradford (loss but maybe Elmira will pull one out).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 20, 2006, 11:03:36 PM
UC beats Caz 79-54. This was the worst I have ever seen UC play. Their was not a single player on Caz that would even make the Utica team. Obviously they were looking ahead to the next game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 21, 2006, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on November 20, 2006, 11:03:36 PM
UC beats Caz 79-54. This was the worst I have ever seen UC play. Their was not a single player on Caz that would even make the Utica team. Obviously they were looking ahead to the next game.

Hard to blame them for looking past Caz, especially early in the year when their bad effort led to a 25 point win. That is one where you ask the coach after the game, "why did we even schedule them?"
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on November 21, 2006, 09:58:01 AM
In response to the Brian Joe statement about his "chucking." Joe can really shoot it, just ask Potsdam. Last year in the first part of the year he really struggled and then he lit up Potsdam for 6 or 7 3's. Shooters go into funks, and he has seemed to find his at the beginning of the past 2 years. It will come, everyone will have to be patient.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 21, 2006, 10:24:36 AM
Quote from: slickyquick on November 21, 2006, 09:58:01 AM
In response to the Brian Joe statement about his "chucking." Joe can really shoot it, just ask Potsdam. Last year in the first part of the year he really struggled and then he lit up Potsdam for 6 or 7 3's. Shooters go into funks, and he has seemed to find his at the beginning of the past 2 years. It will come, everyone will have to be patient.

This is a good post, +k.  Shooters are inherently streaky.  I have never seen Joe play but, if he is a good player, he will work his way to the cup and try to get to the stripe on the nights he is struggling.  But, it sounds like he has a shooter's mentality (like I had) which means, when it goes bad early, he is going to try and shoot his way out of the slump.  That is the price you have to pay as a coach to have a shooter in the lineup.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 21, 2006, 02:52:05 PM
 any predictions about tonights Fisher vs Brockport game.  I have Fisher winning by 8-10 in a very sloppy game with lots of Tournovers.  This Brockport team could give Fisher tons of problems with the young backcourt Fisher has and the hectic full court pressure of Brockport.  Should be a challenging game for both teams.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on November 21, 2006, 09:36:40 PM
I think Fisher will win tonight...but I think it will be real tight. Probably less than 5 points, I would imagine.
I think the big men will be a little bit too much for Brockport. I hope that is the case anyway. I was a little bit worried to see Brockport for the first game. I would have liked to see a little bit easier team to get started against. But, they will be a better team for it I am sure.
It is Fisher at home and that is why I will take them in a tight one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on November 21, 2006, 10:35:56 PM
not the last time I will be wrong...Brockport by 11 over fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 21, 2006, 11:20:30 PM
B-port shoots the lights out (nearly 50% from distance) to beat Fisher 97-86 despite 24 points and 7 boards from Dan McSweeney.

Alfred at home slips past Hilbert 79-77 in OT.  Freshman Pat Smithgall scored 17 points and grabbed a whopping 26 rebounds while Garlen Patt had 16 points.  Win is a win, good job Saxons.

Hartwick also won in OT at Mass. College of Liberal Arts 87-78 no box available; Corey Carson led the Hawks with 23.  Again, great opponent not so much, but it's a road win for the QOWI.

Naz battles UR into overtime (tonight's secret word, apparently) before falling 74-71.  Freshman Rayvon Higdon hit a three with three seconds left in regulation to tie it.  Corey McAdam, man, dude can play a little ball.  23 points, 8 boards, 7 assists.  Jon Oniyiriuka with 19 and 10 plus 5 steals and 2 blocks for UR.  Great effort, Tommy Point to the Golden Flyers.

EDIT: Oh yeah, almost forgot, Cortland 99 Elmira 56 at EC.  Cortland is probably pretty decent and stop me if you've heard this before, but Elmira really really sucks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 22, 2006, 07:49:05 AM
You also forgot the furious comeback JoseQViper sparked in his law league gaming erasing a 15-point deficit in the final 5 minutes and then winning in OT.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 24, 2006, 12:08:29 PM
Ouch,
Fisher takes one on the chin!
Might be a tough season!

Cmon- i know its the first game but--sheesh,
Bport?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on November 25, 2006, 10:48:44 AM
I still think Fisher will have a good season...Young teams struggle early...B-port is not a great team, but they always play Fisher tough.
Fisher lost the first game last year, yes to a much much better team, but the season still worked out pretty well I think.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 25, 2006, 01:38:44 PM
After seeing the game which definatly showed Fishers Major Weakness of inexperienced guard play, a very quick Bport first game match up is a tough way to get started.  Im sure everyteam that plays fisher this year will now press the whole game.  I dont know how you couldnt.  However, i disagree with brockport being a much much better team, they had 2 games under their belt and have the type of style to beat anyteam, especially when they shoot lights out like they did.  If Fisher meets them by mid season (Chase Tourny) I'd put all my money on Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 25, 2006, 06:31:48 PM
i jest with this- but work with me---

but it was brockport!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on November 25, 2006, 10:35:30 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 25, 2006, 01:38:44 PM
After seeing the game which definatly showed Fishers Major Weakness of inexperienced guard play, a very quick Bport first game match up is a tough way to get started.  Im sure everyteam that plays fisher this year will now press the whole game.  I dont know how you couldnt.  However, i disagree with brockport being a much much better team, they had 2 games under their belt and have the type of style to beat anyteam, especially when they shoot lights out like they did.  If Fisher meets them by mid season (Chase Tourny) I'd put all my money on Fisher.

I meant they lost to a much much better team last year in the first game last year...to Baldwin Wallace. Brockport might be a good team but not as good as BW last year, or this year for that matter
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on November 26, 2006, 03:28:09 PM
Fisher plays DYC tonight...a chance to get back on track after a rare home loss to start the season. Any thoughts...?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 26, 2006, 05:03:19 PM
Fisher by 100 D'youville is awful. However, not a good game to play before playing U of R as that game will be on the opposite side of the spectrum.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woot returns on November 26, 2006, 09:37:45 PM
utica, prepare to get crushed by hamilton.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on November 26, 2006, 09:43:58 PM
fisher did have a huge height advantage against bport as the eagles tallest started was brandon williams who is about 6'2."  but as it comes down to in almost all of college basketball, its all about guard play. you can't expect two freshmen no matter how good they are to be able to handle bport's pressure. newman and baltz could of possibly had brown stains running down their legs.

fisher is going to have figure out how to handle pressure that they will see later in the season. even two years ago their guards looked shaky against potsdam, but that was one game. usually the sunyac has more ball pressure and better defensive intensity then the empire 8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 27, 2006, 06:17:29 PM
Hmmm sort of disappointed there is no night crew on the hoops board like we had during football season.  Now JoseQViper is at his desk late and wants to talk to someone...crickets?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 27, 2006, 06:27:44 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 27, 2006, 06:17:29 PM
Hmmm sort of disappointed there is no night crew on the hoops board like we had during football season.  Now JoseQViper is at his desk late and wants to talk to someone...crickets?


I'd be down, but the wife wouldn't be to thrilled if I didn't come back downstairs from "finding some more comfortable clothes". I'm not even sure why I got on the computer when I came up here.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 27, 2006, 06:52:41 PM
crickets
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 27, 2006, 06:53:14 PM
uc 45- - you still in utica?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 27, 2006, 07:59:59 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 27, 2006, 06:53:14 PM
uc 45- - you still in utica?

I live about an hour away. I am still at every game. A lot of my family is in the Utica area, and some of my wife's family as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2006, 08:35:15 PM
Hartwick rolled over SUNY Maritime yesterday and I'd have been disappointed at anything less out of the Hawks.  Tonight Elmira is at Pitt-Bradford.  Rest of the week in the E8:

Tuesday - Morrisville at Ithaca; Hartwick at Skidmore; Utica at Hamilton;  RIT at D'Youville
**UC and the Continentals battle of league favorites in Oneida County rivalry...thanks for joining us Tigers.

Wednesday - Allegheny at Alfred

Friday - Elmira at St. Lawrence; RIT at Clarkson

Saturday - Hobart at Ithaca; Elmira at Clarkson; Hartwick at Elms; RIT at St. Lawrence; Alfred at Cortland

IC needs to pick up 2 wins this week against newbie Morrisville and an apparently awful Hobart squad.  Bombers rarely seem to beat the Statesmen though.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on November 27, 2006, 09:22:29 PM
Don't forget about Fisher vs Mo-ville. I think it is on the 12/2. Another tune up for U of R.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 27, 2006, 10:13:13 PM
If you mean by tune-up a bloodbath.  Another very bad game especially to have to play right before a well disciplined strong UofR team.  Im sure Fisher will be ready but these games are not very good for preparation.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 28, 2006, 08:18:57 AM
What do we know about Morrisville.

Their football team looked like what you would expect a first year program to look like.  But, they were bad at football when they were a JuCo (IC's JV team manhandled them annually) and you need to amass more talent to have a good football team than you need for a good hoop team.  Since they were pretty decent at hoop (even really good a few years) do we think that will transfer over to D3?  Did they keep any of their kids that played JuCo ball there?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 28, 2006, 10:11:14 AM
they are not good. 0-3 and got killed in everygame against ok teamsw
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 28, 2006, 12:16:01 PM
uc-45
im in NH.
Came back after stints in Buff Roch and Alb!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 28, 2006, 02:43:47 PM
It draws you back. I tried to not move to far away from the Varicks wings and Saranac thursdays.


I'll be at the UC game tonight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: met_fan on November 28, 2006, 08:52:59 PM
Hamilton over Utica 68-64
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 29, 2006, 12:30:24 AM
Just the quick hits tonight, besides Utica's narrow loss to Hamilton we also had...

Bombers over Morrisville 82-60; Sean Burton with 12 points and 10 assists, Dominic Scanlon leads all scorers with 17 points, 13 points for Jeff Bostic.  Sean Leahy DNP; any scoop there?

RIT whacks D'Youville as Barrett Zeinfeld ties school record with 8 three-pointers.

Hartwick wins at Skidmore to improve to 4-1 on the season.  MadHawk..."come out and plaaaaaaaay!"
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 29, 2006, 08:11:09 AM
uc 45-
id say either cavallos or killabrew wings...
Varick were great - but have fallen off a bit.
How was the game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 08:15:49 AM
Utica beat themselves last night. They outplayed Hamilton in nearly every aspect of the game. Killed them on the glass and had 20 assists to Hamiltons 8. Dennis Munch took 4 charges and UC forced many jump balls.

Unfortunately they couldn't hit the broad sign of a barn with uncontested shots. They must have missed at leat 20 uncontested shots last night, including at elast 10 lay ups. There was a point late in the game that they missed 6 consecutive uncontested lay ups. They moved the ball well and did everything right and just couldn't get the shots to fall.

Hamilton has some talent and plays tight D. If these two were to meet later in the year with the young Big guys from UC a little more developed, I'd expect Utica by 15. If they shot anywhere near what they usually do last night they probably would have won by 10. Regardless, Hamilton is a tough team that you need to play your game against or you will have a long night.

UC has a tough first semester schedule, and this makes the Cortland game even more important.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 08:19:00 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 29, 2006, 08:11:09 AM
uc 45-
id say either cavallos or killabrew wings...
Varick were great - but have fallen off a bit.
How was the game?

When I hit up the Varick, I know the owner so he hooks us up with wings made the way they used to, instead of the mass produced process they do now  ;D .

Game was good. UC really should have won and didn't do themselves any favors. After the game you could see the positive attitude of the team, knowing that they were the better team and a sense of eagerness to get back on the court for the next game. Hamilton is a quality team and UC learned a lot from this game, especially the young guys. The game was very entertaining.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 29, 2006, 08:27:43 AM
Good for UC for playing a tough non-conference schedule in a year they know they are going to be good.  Too many college coaches take the cupcake walk trying to get that undefeated number.

UCGrad, is Bryant playing? (I know he has played a few games...right?)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 08:32:40 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 29, 2006, 08:27:43 AM
Good for UC for playing a tough non-conference schedule in a year they know they are going to be good.  Too many college coaches take the cupcake walk trying to get that undefeated number.

UCGrad, is Bryant playing? (I know he has played a few games...right?)


He is playing. The whole issue isn't as cut and dry as it sounds when reading it. He dropped 23 last night.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 29, 2006, 08:41:04 AM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 08:32:40 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 29, 2006, 08:27:43 AM
Good for UC for playing a tough non-conference schedule in a year they know they are going to be good.  Too many college coaches take the cupcake walk trying to get that undefeated number.

UCGrad, is Bryant playing? (I know he has played a few games...right?)

Glad to hear it.  I don't know what he did but really don't care.  As a fan, I want to see the good players play.  Maybe that is what happens when you grow up watching Bobby Bowden and Steve Spurrier manage player discipline.
He is playing. The whole issue isn't as cut and dry as it sounds when reading it. He dropped 23 last night.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 08:49:38 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 29, 2006, 08:41:04 AM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 08:32:40 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 29, 2006, 08:27:43 AM
Good for UC for playing a tough non-conference schedule in a year they know they are going to be good.  Too many college coaches take the cupcake walk trying to get that undefeated number.

UCGrad, is Bryant playing? (I know he has played a few games...right?)

Glad to hear it.  I don't know what he did but really don't care.  As a fan, I want to see the good players play.  Maybe that is what happens when you grow up watching Bobby Bowden and Steve Spurrier manage player discipline.
He is playing. The whole issue isn't as cut and dry as it sounds when reading it. He dropped 23 last night.


I'm glad to see him playing as well. He is a good guy, jokes around a lot, and sometimes it gets him in trouble. Overall, he does a lot for the community and is a good guy to be around.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 29, 2006, 09:59:25 AM
uc-
do you know michelle, steve or both?
Hope that Ray gets that whole situation fixed.
Would hate to have that come back to haunt him.


Ill give the edge to killabrew though!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: shooters on November 29, 2006, 12:02:55 PM
UC Grad,

I didn't see the game but it sounded like on the radio that TK took it to Bryant in the second half. Outscored him and outplayed him. And I think if you want to talk about meeting later in the year, the guards for Hamilton will be more developed and I think you would get similar results. I don't understand how you can say after losing by four that playing again would result in a 19 point difference? Now if you had a player suspended for say picking up a prostitute and didn't play then you might have an argument. Otherwise take your lose and carry on.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 29, 2006, 12:37:38 PM
ouch!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Tags on November 29, 2006, 12:51:07 PM
Aaaand I've arrived just in time for Basketball season 8)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 29, 2006, 12:58:21 PM
ya didnt miss much tags,
just a little mud slinging
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Tags on November 29, 2006, 01:03:27 PM
It's alright, I can get enough of that over on the football board.

Looking forward to a nice winter on the basketball boards.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 29, 2006, 01:06:16 PM
Quote from: shooters on November 29, 2006, 12:02:55 PM
UC Grad,

I didn't see the game but it sounded like on the radio that TK took it to Bryant in the second half. Outscored him and outplayed him. And I think if you want to talk about meeting later in the year, the guards for Hamilton will be more developed and I think you would get similar results. I don't understand how you can say after losing by four that playing again would result in a 19 point difference? Now if you had a player suspended for say picking up a prostitute and didn't play then you might have an argument. Otherwise take your lose and carry on.

Hmmm a Hamilton fan?  That is something new.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 29, 2006, 01:08:24 PM
hamilton has fans?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 02:36:55 PM
Quote from: shooters on November 29, 2006, 12:02:55 PM
UC Grad,

I didn't see the game but it sounded like on the radio that TK took it to Bryant in the second half. Outscored him and outplayed him. And I think if you want to talk about meeting later in the year, the guards for Hamilton will be more developed and I think you would get similar results. I don't understand how you can say after losing by four that playing again would result in a 19 point difference? Now if you had a player suspended for say picking up a prostitute and didn't play then you might have an argument. Otherwise take your lose and carry on.



I'm not sure how someone that wasn't at the game can reach a conclusion like this. I'm perfectly fine with the "lose". It's the end of the season that this team will show what it can do.

Hamilton got lucky that UC missed several lay ups after making the D look silly with quality passes. Hamilton had 0 offensive boards in the second half and was beaten in assists 20-8. UC dominated every aspect of the game, but missed shots they usually make. I give Hamilton props for staying in the game and playing hard. They are a tough team that you need to play your game to beat, and UC simply did not play their game the entire time. The stretch of 6 consecutive missed uncontested lay ups was the difference in the game. As it was, both teams made the same amount of Field Goals and 3's, and the difference in score came from the FT line.


I was rather annoyed at listening to the Hamilton coach whine to the refs about not getting the same amount of FT attempts as UC. The first time he did it, both teams had attempted 3. The second time he did it, UC had taken 1 more, and the last time he did it Hamilton had actually taken more. He was pretty cool and gracious after the game though, understanding they survived a tough one. UC is a deeper team with more talent overall. It is always a fun matchup that no matter what the teams look like, either one could win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 02:40:20 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 29, 2006, 09:59:25 AM
uc-
do you know michelle, steve or both?
Hope that Ray gets that whole situation fixed.
Would hate to have that come back to haunt him.


Ill give the edge to killabrew though!


Steve. You confused me for a second because the owners of the winery where I used to work were named Steve and Michelle.

My good friend came up from Florida for his wedding and he used to be a regular there as well. We got hooked up with 60 wings on a night they weren't even making them and they even refilled the old beer bones and giant mugs that they dont use anymore for us. We were also told the recipe for the wings, but still can't get them to be the same.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 29, 2006, 02:59:31 PM
Kloseks are good people.
Still- give the brew a shot- wont be disappointeed!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 29, 2006, 03:11:00 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 02:36:55 PM
Quote from: shooters on November 29, 2006, 12:02:55 PM

I was rather annoyed at listening to the Hamilton coach whine to the refs about not getting the same amount of FT attempts as UC. The first time he did it, both teams had attempted 3. The second time he did it, UC had taken 1 more, and the last time he did it Hamilton had actually taken more. He was pretty cool and gracious after the game though, understanding they survived a tough one. UC is a deeper team with more talent overall. It is always a fun matchup that no matter what the teams look like, either one could win.

I don't think it is the same guy but, JoseQViper got into an in-game argument with a Hamilton JV Coach during his freshman year because I got tired of the Hamilton coach complaining to the ref about the screens I was setting.  During a free throw on their end I may or may not have stood right next to him and told him what I thought.  Funny thing was, he was the coach that took me around campus on my recruiting trip there.  I always wonder if he recognized me and was bitching because I blew him off for IC.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 29, 2006, 02:59:31 PM
Kloseks are good people.
Still- give the brew a shot- wont be disappointeed!


I have had some good times there as well!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 03:50:14 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 29, 2006, 03:11:00 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 02:36:55 PM
Quote from: shooters on November 29, 2006, 12:02:55 PM

I was rather annoyed at listening to the Hamilton coach whine to the refs about not getting the same amount of FT attempts as UC. The first time he did it, both teams had attempted 3. The second time he did it, UC had taken 1 more, and the last time he did it Hamilton had actually taken more. He was pretty cool and gracious after the game though, understanding they survived a tough one. UC is a deeper team with more talent overall. It is always a fun matchup that no matter what the teams look like, either one could win.

I don't think it is the same guy but, JoseQViper got into an in-game argument with a Hamilton JV Coach during his freshman year because I got tired of the Hamilton coach complaining to the ref about the screens I was setting.  During a free throw on their end I may or may not have stood right next to him and told him what I thought.  Funny thing was, he was the coach that took me around campus on my recruiting trip there.  I always wonder if he recognized me and was bitching because I blew him off for IC.



When did you play there?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 29, 2006, 03:56:01 PM
Hard not to!
Still doing pretty well too.
Wings and beer specials are great!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on November 29, 2006, 04:40:12 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 03:50:14 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 29, 2006, 03:11:00 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 02:36:55 PM
Quote from: shooters on November 29, 2006, 12:02:55 PM

I was rather annoyed at listening to the Hamilton coach whine to the refs about not getting the same amount of FT attempts as UC. The first time he did it, both teams had attempted 3. The second time he did it, UC had taken 1 more, and the last time he did it Hamilton had actually taken more. He was pretty cool and gracious after the game though, understanding they survived a tough one. UC is a deeper team with more talent overall. It is always a fun matchup that no matter what the teams look like, either one could win.

I don't think it is the same guy but, JoseQViper got into an in-game argument with a Hamilton JV Coach during his freshman year because I got tired of the Hamilton coach complaining to the ref about the screens I was setting.  During a free throw on their end I may or may not have stood right next to him and told him what I thought.  Funny thing was, he was the coach that took me around campus on my recruiting trip there.  I always wonder if he recognized me and was bitching because I blew him off for IC.



When did you play there?

I was at IC 1999-2003.  But only played 1999-2000 and 2000-2001
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on November 30, 2006, 08:16:37 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 08:15:49 AM
Utica beat themselves last night. They outplayed Hamilton in nearly every aspect of the game. Killed them on the glass and had 20 assists to Hamiltons 8. Dennis Munch took 4 charges and UC forced many jump balls.

Unfortunately they couldn't hit the broad sign of a barn with uncontested shots. They must have missed at leat 20 uncontested shots last night, including at elast 10 lay ups. There was a point late in the game that they missed 6 consecutive uncontested lay ups. They moved the ball well and did everything right and just couldn't get the shots to fall.

Hamilton has some talent and plays tight D. If these two were to meet later in the year with the young Big guys from UC a little more developed, I'd expect Utica by 15. If they shot anywhere near what they usually do last night they probably would have won by 10. Regardless, Hamilton is a tough team that you need to play your game against or you will have a long night.

UC has a tough first semester schedule, and this makes the Cortland game even more important.


I like most of the guys from Utica, ClearConceit excluded, but this is what I have a problem with: the excuses. It's always something other than the opponent being better than you guys. Last year it came to a head after your loss at RIT. Supposedly there were some missed dunks, some missed wide-open jumpers, some terrible officiating, apparently the temperature in the gym was a little cool for Utica's liking, etc.

Hamilton always fields quality teams. There is no shame in losing to them. But accept the loss for what is: Hamilton was better than you on that particular night. They may not be a better team necessarily, but that's the beauty of sports; the better team doesn't always win.

To say that you dominated the game but "couldn't hit the broad side of a barn" is such a terrible argument.  The point of basketball is to score more points than the other team, which entails shooting the basketball in the hoop. If you can't shoot, you usually can't win. Can you imagine Tiger Woods saying, "oh man, I hit the ball really far but it just kept going in the trees...otherwise, I woulda won the tournament by five strokes!" No kidding, tell me more!

Lose with some class. We recognize Utica is probably the top team in the E8. That said, they're probably not the best team in the state and they'll lose some ballgames here and there. Don't make excuses for them.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Tags on November 30, 2006, 08:35:07 PM
You wouldn't call Fisher the top team in the E8?

Never have seen them play, plan on it this year since I'm 9 feet from the college... From what I hear they've been a great team

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 30, 2006, 09:34:57 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 30, 2006, 08:16:37 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on November 29, 2006, 08:15:49 AM
Utica beat themselves last night. They outplayed Hamilton in nearly every aspect of the game. Killed them on the glass and had 20 assists to Hamiltons 8. Dennis Munch took 4 charges and UC forced many jump balls.

Unfortunately they couldn't hit the broad sign of a barn with uncontested shots. They must have missed at leat 20 uncontested shots last night, including at elast 10 lay ups. There was a point late in the game that they missed 6 consecutive uncontested lay ups. They moved the ball well and did everything right and just couldn't get the shots to fall.

Hamilton has some talent and plays tight D. If these two were to meet later in the year with the young Big guys from UC a little more developed, I'd expect Utica by 15. If they shot anywhere near what they usually do last night they probably would have won by 10. Regardless, Hamilton is a tough team that you need to play your game against or you will have a long night.

UC has a tough first semester schedule, and this makes the Cortland game even more important.


I like most of the guys from Utica, ClearConceit excluded, but this is what I have a problem with: the excuses. It's always something other than the opponent being better than you guys. Last year it came to a head after your loss at RIT. Supposedly there were some missed dunks, some missed wide-open jumpers, some terrible officiating, apparently the temperature in the gym was a little cool for Utica's liking, etc.

Hamilton always fields quality teams. There is no shame in losing to them. But accept the loss for what is: Hamilton was better than you on that particular night. They may not be a better team necessarily, but that's the beauty of sports; the better team doesn't always win.

To say that you dominated the game but "couldn't hit the broad side of a barn" is such a terrible argument.  The point of basketball is to score more points than the other team, which entails shooting the basketball in the hoop. If you can't shoot, you usually can't win. Can you imagine Tiger Woods saying, "oh man, I hit the ball really far but it just kept going in the trees...otherwise, I woulda won the tournament by five strokes!" No kidding, tell me more!

Lose with some class. We recognize Utica is probably the top team in the E8. That said, they're probably not the best team in the state and they'll lose some ballgames here and there. Don't make excuses for them.


I didn't realize that they couldn't make a shot was an excuse. It seems more of an observation.

When you beat a team by double digits in boards and assists, you dominated two of the most important aspects of the game. They had good quality shots uncontested because they moved the ball well. They missed shots they usually make, end of story. That's not an excuse, it's a fact.

Anybody that watched that game knows that Hamilton couldn't stop them and they were their own worst enemy. I have a good feeling that you were not one of those that watched said game. I just have a hard time getting an assesment of my assesment from someone that wasn't even there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 30, 2006, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 30, 2006, 08:35:07 PM
You wouldn't call Fisher the top team in the E8?

Never have seen them play, plan on it this year since I'm 9 feet from the college... From what I hear they've been a great team

Thoughts?


UC and Fisher are both right at the top. Both teams lost a lot of talent, but UC brought more back this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Tags on November 30, 2006, 10:49:16 PM
The loss of McGee hurts - played against him in HS and he was a solid player.

Have seen a lot of Smalt & Newman (went to HS in my neck of the woods). As they mature in the system they'll be tough.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: shooters on November 30, 2006, 11:00:30 PM
UCGrad, I couldn't agree more with gobombers. Listen the point of the story is Hamilton shot better in the second half and held Utica to like 28% from the field. Apparently Hamilton played better than Utica in the second half, hence the victory. Your post should have said, hats off to Hamilton who played better than we did tonite, instead you say in the third paragraph of your excuse list that "Hamilton has some talent" Talent? TK put up 26-10 on your 27 year old man-child. He will be an All-American by years end. Take your loss and move on.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woot returns on November 30, 2006, 11:34:52 PM
first of all, utica only has two decent players. herring and the 27 year old solicitor of a prostitute. dennis munch is probably the worst player in d3 basketball. he wouldnt even make my local middle school team. he probably payed the school to take him or maybe they felt sorry for him.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 30, 2006, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: shooters on November 30, 2006, 11:00:30 PM
UCGrad, I couldn't agree more with gobombers. Listen the point of the story is Hamilton shot better in the second half and held Utica to like 28% from the field. Apparently Hamilton played better than Utica in the second half, hence the victory. Your post should have said, hats off to Hamilton who played better than we did tonite, instead you say in the third paragraph of your excuse list that "Hamilton has some talent" Talent? TK put up 26-10 on your 27 year old man-child. He will be an All-American by years end. Take your loss and move on.


Hamilton didn't hold them to anything. They were faked out of their jock so bad they fell to the floor on several occasions. 20 assists to 8 and 44-34 rebound edge while allowing 0 offensive boards in the second half would mean a win 9 times out of 10. What does that leave as the only way the game was settled? Shooting. And if you were there you would have witnessed a poor shooting performance by Utica. They weren't missing shots with people in their face, they were missing shots completely uncontested. That isn't Hamilton playing great D, thats Utica shooting uncharacteristically poor.

As far as putting up numbers on Ray, I'm pretty sure that would require him guarding him for a majority of the game and our SF/SG doesn't match up against the big men very often. He only scored 23 on a rough night shooting.

As far as him being 27, I hope that isn't your excuse for him being so good. I for one don't know too many people that can step away from competitive play for 7 years and come back and dominate athletes that are in the best shape of their lives. After being a JUCO all American he easily could have played right away, but there were reasons why that was not an option at that time.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 30, 2006, 11:57:17 PM
Quote from: woot returns on November 30, 2006, 11:34:52 PM
first of all, utica only has two decent players. herring and the 27 year old solicitor of a prostitute. dennis munch is probably the worst player in d3 basketball. he wouldnt even make my local middle school team. he probably payed the school to take him or maybe they felt sorry for him.


Yeah, all he did was come into the game and within 60 seconds get a steal, cause a jump ball, and take a charge. He also took 4 charges in one game, more than what most teams do. He steps into his role and does it while playing harder than anyone on the court.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 30, 2006, 11:58:30 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on November 30, 2006, 11:57:17 PM
Quote from: woot returns on November 30, 2006, 11:34:52 PM
first of all, utica only has two decent players. herring and the 27 year old solicitor of a prostitute. dennis munch is probably the worst player in d3 basketball. he wouldnt even make my local middle school team. he probably payed the school to take him or maybe they felt sorry for him.


Yeah, all he did was come into the game and within 60 seconds get a steal, cause a jump ball, and take a charge. He also took 4 charges in one game, more than what most teams do. He steps into his role and does it while playing harder than anyone on the court.


BTW, I find it funny that you are trying to rip on a team based on the play of the third guy off the bench.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 01, 2006, 01:24:20 AM
My point is that each time that Utica loses a game, it's the same "we beat ourselves, we were better than the other team, etc." It's a tired act at this point and I think a lot of the people who have been around here for awhile would probably agree.

The bottom line is that good teams capitalize on their opportunities. All of your "observations" suggest that UC let their opportunities go by the wayside while Hamilton apparently capitalized on theirs. Hamilton deserved the W if that's the case. I think where you really hurt your credibility in the initial post is where you took the potshot at Hamilton and said you'd beat them by 15 if the two teams played later in the season. C'mon, stop that. You know it'd be another close game and you just look like a sore loser when you say that. Sorry, but that's the perception.

You can quote me statistics until you're blue in the face. The only numbers that matter are the ones on the scoreboard at the end of the game. Hamilton's a good team, tip your hat to them and move on. Utica will still be successful this year but don't turn the board against you over a sour reaction to a loss against a team that is just as good as Utica.

NOTE: Being a Tulane student, I attended our first game a few weeks ago. We were one-point favorites entering the game; we lost by 40. The opponent: Butler. That was before they went on to beat Notre Dame, Indiana, Tennesee, and Gonzaga. Watching them in warmups I seriously thought to myself "wow, these Butler kids look like they should be playing D3 ball." Whoops.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 01, 2006, 08:28:20 AM
Just thought I'd throw my two cents in here because, well what else do we do on these boards.

I agree with UCGrad45 that a team can dominate a game, play better than their opponent, and still lose because of a poor shooting night.  I don't know anything about Utica but, when I played they were pretty guard oriented.  Guard oriented teams are more susceptible to these types of losses than teams that grind it out in the pivot.

I don't think the assist edge or, the fact that Utica was missing open shots is evidence they dominated the game.  When I was coaching, we stopped comparing total assists because, teams that played poor man defense always beat us in assist total.  The reason: we beat them off the bounce with ease and rarely passed.  I didn't see the game, but this is a possible alternate explanation.  Utica generally missing open shots also doesn't neccessarily prove Hamilton played bad defense.  Maybe those shots were open because they were the shots the Hamilton coaches wanted Utica to take.  It is basically impossible to stop a team from shooting so, a lot of coaches implement defensive strategies that incentive shooting by the bad shooters. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 01, 2006, 09:17:09 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 01, 2006, 08:28:20 AM
Just thought I'd throw my two cents in here because, well what else do we do on these boards.

I agree with UCGrad45 that a team can dominate a game, play better than their opponent, and still lose because of a poor shooting night.  I don't know anything about Utica but, when I played they were pretty guard oriented.  Guard oriented teams are more susceptible to these types of losses than teams that grind it out in the pivot.

I don't think the assist edge or, the fact that Utica was missing open shots is evidence they dominated the game.  When I was coaching, we stopped comparing total assists because, teams that played poor man defense always beat us in assist total.  The reason: we beat them off the bounce with ease and rarely passed.  I didn't see the game, but this is a possible alternate explanation.  Utica generally missing open shots also doesn't neccessarily prove Hamilton played bad defense.  Maybe those shots were open because they were the shots the Hamilton coaches wanted Utica to take.  It is basically impossible to stop a team from shooting so, a lot of coaches implement defensive strategies that incentive shooting by the bad shooters. 


I totally agree with everything here. However, knowing each player on the team as well as I do, it wasn't the poor shooters that were missing wide open shots. The majority of the missed uncontested shots were in the paint, or just outside. However Collier, who shot 50% from the arc last year missed 4 or 5 wide open 3's with plenty of time to take his shot. Just a rough night overall shooting, including from the FT line, where UC had been strong coming into the game. Oddly enough, the difference in the score was the amount of FT made. Teams don't play UC in a straight man to man, and I doubt many teams will even attempt it this season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on December 01, 2006, 09:38:50 AM
It is obvious to everyone that Utica's two best players are Herring and Bryant. Both of them will compete for first team all league this year.  Other teams will try to shut them down. Utica needs a couple of players every game to step up and score because Herring and Bryant can't do it all.

With Collier being a senior you would think that he would step up. He has been inconsisent his whole career because of his lack of athleticism.  He will have a tough time dealing with defensive pressure because he is shaky handling the ball.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 01, 2006, 09:48:15 AM
Quote from: slickyquick on December 01, 2006, 09:38:50 AM
It is obvious to everyone that Utica's two best players are Herring and Bryant. Both of them will compete for first team all league this year.  Other teams will try to shut them down. Utica needs a couple of players every game to step up and score because Herring and Bryant can't do it all.

With Collier being a senior you would think that he would step up. He has been inconsisent his whole career because of his lack of athleticism.  He will have a tough time dealing with defensive pressure because he is shaky handling the ball.


They do need others to step up with scoring, and for the most part they have so far this season. Ray only scored 6 in the game UC won 104-37. Multiple guys in double figures every night was the reason UC was averaging over 90 a game going into the last contest. They have a lot of shooters and big men (one of those can shoot outside as well) in the Freshman class. Those guys are going to have to learn to play their game and be comfortable with it.

Where are you from slicky?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 01, 2006, 11:13:21 AM
Should be an interesting competition for the PG spot on the first team all-E8 this year between Burton and Herring. I'd favor Herring but if Burton keeps up these assist totals, who knows.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on December 01, 2006, 03:31:11 PM
I've lived all over the state, seen a lot of basketball over the past 8 years or so. Just trying to keep in touch because I recently moved out to the northeast.

Just because Utica scored 104 on a team that couldn't guard my one legged grandmother doesn't mean that the rest of the team can score. I'm sure their freshmen class is good, they usually are, the question is, can they sustain that scoring during league play.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on December 01, 2006, 07:18:57 PM
UCgrad...totally agree with you on all of your points. 

Woot...how many times have you seen Dennis Munch play?? Can't be very much, because, although he doesn't put up any sort of scoring to talk about, he is such a valuable player in every aspect of the game.  I know a number of college coaches who have said they would take a player like Munch on their team no matter what level they were coaching at....meaning DI, II, or III...not modified, JV, or varsity  ;). 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woot returns on December 01, 2006, 11:34:46 PM
was herring given alot of d1 offers? do you know, uc grad?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reelentless on December 01, 2006, 11:51:39 PM
Enjoying this string on the UC / Hamilton Game, but feeling a little sorry for UCgrad.  Unfortunate that being at the game is a disadvantage.  Hamilton won, UC lost, all of that is simple.   But if you sat at the game (as I did) and watched UC miss more than a dozen uncontested lapups and offensive rebound chippies, you might feel there is some hope for the season.

As the father of one of the UC freshman bigs (Whyte) who "needs to develop" I'm ok with waiting to see what happens next.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 02, 2006, 12:30:14 AM
Quote from: woot returns on December 01, 2006, 11:34:46 PM
was herring given alot of d1 offers? do you know, uc grad?

I'm not really sure. I believe he had a few, but don't quote me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 02, 2006, 12:32:53 AM
Quote from: reelentless on December 01, 2006, 11:51:39 PM
Enjoying this string on the UC / Hamilton Game, but feeling a little sorry for UCgrad.  Unfortunate that being at the game is a disadvantage.  Hamilton won, UC lost, all of that is simple.   But if you sat at the game (as I did) and watched UC miss more than a dozen uncontested lapups and offensive rebound chippies, you might feel there is some hope for the season.

As the father of one of the UC freshman bigs (Whyte) who "needs to develop" I'm ok with waiting to see what happens next.


Ahh, don't feel bad for me. I've seen UC go from a team with very little talent and not a chance to go anywhere when coach Goodemote first took over to a Sweet 16 team.


Your son is going to be a real good player. I like his attitude and how he approaches the game. I'd expect to see him playing more as the season goes on if he continues to play tough. He is a good kid as well, you should be proud. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 02, 2006, 01:14:37 AM
I agree with you lileyes.... Although Munch doesn't put up the numbers, he is a pesky pain in the ass, that does a lot more than stats show.  He is always drawing charges, playing physical, will throw a cheap shot in if need be, play dirty if the refs allow, and just plays very hard and within the system.  Saying munch doesn't belong on a d3 team definatly, would be drawn from a first or second time viewer that hasn't seem him play enough or played against him.    And to tell you the truth, Every good team at any level has players like that (In my opinion it is a must)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 02, 2006, 01:41:17 PM
Quote from: lileyes on December 01, 2006, 07:18:57 PM
UCgrad...totally agree with you on all of your points. 


Yeah, and if I remember some of your posts from last season, you have about as much objectivity as Tommy Heinsohn. Man am I pumped for a few more "________ didn't win the game, Utica lost the game" posts this year. At least we'll be expecting it. The RIT guys will be back in here soon enough so that I don't have to go it alone against you UC kool-aid drinkers.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 02, 2006, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: reelentless on December 01, 2006, 11:51:39 PM
Enjoying this string on the UC / Hamilton Game, but feeling a little sorry for UCgrad.  Unfortunate that being at the game is a disadvantage.  Hamilton won, UC lost, all of that is simple.   But if you sat at the game (as I did) and watched UC miss more than a dozen uncontested lapups and offensive rebound chippies, you might feel there is some hope for the season.

As the father of one of the UC freshman bigs (Whyte) who "needs to develop" I'm ok with waiting to see what happens next.

+k for saying who you are and not trying to pump up your son. A lot of fathers have made that mistake on the football board.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reelentless on December 02, 2006, 08:40:46 PM
Thanks Jose, but my motives are selfish.   I intend to take all the credit when my son starts dropping 15 ppg in and I've got to identify myself to make that work.

Question, why doesn't SUNYIT get more credit on the SUNYAC board?  The score doesn't show it, but I saw the UC v IT game and with both teams playing well, it was an even game until near the end.  Reaves (hopefully he's healthy) is a lights out shooter.  That league better be careful, SUNYIT is not a great defensive team yet, but how many teams can score the 80 points it's going to take to beat them? 

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 02, 2006, 11:01:17 PM
Fisher takes care of business tonight beating Mo-vill...Kind of tough to get all excited after what went on in football today...but still, a win, and they can get some more kinks out before they play U of R...Any thoughts on the Fisher/UR game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: coach no name on December 02, 2006, 11:01:45 PM
Fisher by 20 over an athletic morrisville team.  Waterloos homeboy dan mueller shot decent on his way to a 12 point 6 assist night.  Big game outta justin beigel with 30 points as he was to big and too strong for the morrisville big men.  Big game off the bench from Mark Bearden putting up 8 points in only 9 minutes of play.  Dan mcsweeny also added 12.  Looking forward to fishers home game vs U of R thursday.  Fisher can show the empire 8 that the bport loss was a fluke and they are the best team in rochester by beating U of R.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on December 02, 2006, 11:47:25 PM
Hey Coach No Name
Fisher could  but they wont, they have a ways to go to prove they are the best team  on East Avenue let alone all of Rochester, and will be lucky to break even with U of R and Naz.  BTW Who did you coach, Coach No Name, the cubs?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 03, 2006, 12:57:11 AM
Ithaca over Hobart today at Ben Light, 69-58. It's only Hobart but a win is a win is a win, I suppose. Sean Leahy returns from his one game absence to score 22 points and grab 6 rebs; he was an efficient 6-12 from the field and 7-7 from the line. Looks like it might be a nice race between him and younger McAdam from Naz for ROY. Burton has another solid game, scoring 13 pts and dropping 5 dimes. Brian Joe scored 15 pts, albeit on 6-18 from the field and just 2-10 from distance.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on December 03, 2006, 01:45:08 AM
Reelentless, you wonder why folks are a tad tentative to give IT rock-solid props? Check out Saturday night's results: Oswego 85, SUNYIT 57! We saw IT beat Cortland in OT on Friday. Down big at the half, then Reaves took over. He dominates. At Oswego, down big at half. Just 10 pts from Reaves for the game. Indeed, a solid IT cast, but tend to become invisible on occasion. Laboard's outstanding. But stat-wise he didn't have much of a game at Oswego. Gilkes was dominant, but struggled at Cortland. IT's just a tough sell game in, game out. Still, should be at or near the top in SUNYAC
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 04, 2006, 03:41:02 PM
Quote from: reelentless on December 02, 2006, 08:40:46 PM
Thanks Jose, but my motives are selfish.   I intend to take all the credit when my son starts dropping 15 ppg in and I've got to identify myself to make that work.

Question, why doesn't SUNYIT get more credit on the SUNYAC board?  The score doesn't show it, but I saw the UC v IT game and with both teams playing well, it was an even game until near the end.  Reaves (hopefully he's healthy) is a lights out shooter.  That league better be careful, SUNYIT is not a great defensive team yet, but how many teams can score the 80 points it's going to take to beat them? 


S'ok, nothing wrong with giving your kid a ton of credit.  Check out Bob Napoleone's posts on the E8 Football Board.  He gives the Bomber defense tons of love, as a father should.  Just so long as you aren't like win_mag, who criticized football posters for criticizing James Reille of SJF, kept making random statements about how he was still a good person, only to find out he was Reille's dad.  I actually felt bad for his kid. 

Quote from: coach no name on December 02, 2006, 11:01:45 PM
Fisher can show the empire 8 that the bport loss was a fluke and they are the best team in rochester by beating U of R.

Isn't Brockport in Rochester?  If Fisher beats U of R, wouldn't they have claim to that crown until they play U of R?

Quote from: gobombers15 on December 03, 2006, 12:57:11 AM
Ithaca over Hobart today at Ben Light, 69-58. It's only Hobart but a win is a win is a win, I suppose. Sean Leahy returns from his one game absence to score 22 points and grab 6 rebs; he was an efficient 6-12 from the field and 7-7 from the line. Looks like it might be a nice race between him and younger McAdam from Naz for ROY. Burton has another solid game, scoring 13 pts and dropping 5 dimes. Brian Joe scored 15 pts, albeit on 6-18 from the field and just 2-10 from distance.

Just had a second to look at the Bomber box score.  Looks like Leahy carried us.  Odd that three Bomber starters couldn't get to double figures.  Also, Stahn only played 10 minutes while Clemente only played 6.  Anyone know what is going on there?  Other than their numbers seem to indicate they aren't playing very well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on December 04, 2006, 04:47:23 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 04, 2006, 03:41:02 PM
Quote from: reelentless on December 02, 2006, 08:40:46 PM
Thanks Jose, but my motives are selfish.   I intend to take all the credit when my son starts dropping 15 ppg in and I've got to identify myself to make that work.

Question, why doesn't SUNYIT get more credit on the SUNYAC board?  The score doesn't show it, but I saw the UC v IT game and with both teams playing well, it was an even game until near the end.  Reaves (hopefully he's healthy) is a lights out shooter.  That league better be careful, SUNYIT is not a great defensive team yet, but how many teams can score the 80 points it's going to take to beat them? 


S'ok, nothing wrong with giving your kid a ton of credit.  Check out Bob Napoleone's posts on the E8 Football Board.  He gives the Bomber defense tons of love, as a father should.  Just so long as you aren't like win_mag, who criticized football posters for criticizing James Reille of SJF, kept making random statements about how he was still a good person, only to find out he was Reille's dad.  I actually felt bad for his kid. 

Quote from: coach no name on December 02, 2006, 11:01:45 PM
Fisher can show the empire 8 that the bport loss was a fluke and they are the best team in rochester by beating U of R.

Isn't Brockport in Rochester?  If Fisher beats U of R, wouldn't they have claim to that crown until they play U of R?

Quote from: gobombers15 on December 03, 2006, 12:57:11 AM
Ithaca over Hobart today at Ben Light, 69-58. It's only Hobart but a win is a win is a win, I suppose. Sean Leahy returns from his one game absence to score 22 points and grab 6 rebs; he was an efficient 6-12 from the field and 7-7 from the line. Looks like it might be a nice race between him and younger McAdam from Naz for ROY. Burton has another solid game, scoring 13 pts and dropping 5 dimes. Brian Joe scored 15 pts, albeit on 6-18 from the field and just 2-10 from distance.

Just had a second to look at the Bomber box score.  Looks like Leahy carried us.  Odd that three Bomber starters couldn't get to double figures.  Also, Stahn only played 10 minutes while Clemente only played 6.  Anyone know what is going on there?  Other than their numbers seem to indicate they aren't playing very well.


Brockport's more near Rochester than in it. UR, Fisher, and Naz are kind of the "Rochester" consensus teams what with the E8, Fisher-UR rivalry, and majority of local coverage.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 04, 2006, 04:59:04 PM
So is RIT "more near" Rochester or one of the consensus "Rochester" teams.

I'd say with the exception of Keuka you consider any of the other Chase teams a Rochester school.

And when Brockport (or Geneseo for that matter) is winning they get just as much coverage as a UR or SJF would get, just look at a couple years ago when they were one of the last undefeated teams in the country.
Granted they got killed by UR in the tourney but there was plenty of talk about them.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 04, 2006, 05:05:12 PM
Good point about RIT.  It has to be considered a Rochester school Max.

It isn't called

Not so much in Rochester as Near Rochester Institute of Technology.

NSMIRANRIT (for those of you playing the home game).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on December 04, 2006, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on December 04, 2006, 04:59:04 PM
So is RIT "more near" Rochester or one of the consensus "Rochester" teams.

I'd say with the exception of Keuka you consider any of the other Chase teams a Rochester school.

And when Brockport (or Geneseo for that matter) is winning they get just as much coverage as a UR or SJF would get, just look at a couple years ago when they were one of the last undefeated teams in the country.
Granted they got killed by UR in the tourney but there was plenty of talk about them.

Forgot about RIT, they're in Rochester no doubt.

I still don't agree about Brockport. The college gets no love from the D & C. THe high school gets a lot of ink, though.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 04, 2006, 06:17:15 PM
THIS WEEK IN THE EMPIRE 8

Monday - Green Mountain at Hartwick: 'Wick to win big.  C'mon Hawks, play somebody already.

Tuesday - Ithaca at Cortland, Utica at Skidmore, Oswego at Nazareth, Alfred at Geneseo: UC should roll over the Thoroughbreds, but it's tough going for the 3 SUNY showdowns.  Can we please beat Cortland at a sport soon?  This is getting very irritating.  Max and/or Jose, when was the last time we beat Cortland in hoops?  Feels like it's been a while.

Wednesday - Elmira at Colgate: Sure, that's just what EC needs, to play a D1 team.  That's some hardcore scheduling, 'Gate.  That'll get your boys ready for Bucknell and Holy Cross all right.

Thursday - Bard at Hartwick (what did I just say?? You're on notice, Hartwick!); Cortland at Utica; UR at Fisher: We'll know more after Tuesday but I don't see why UC can't take down C-State at home.  Can Fisher beat the Jackets in their crackerjack box gym?

Friday - Ithaca at St. Lawrence, Hobart at RIT, Alfred at Potsdam; IC to lose, RIT to win, Alfred at least has a chance, which is something that couldn't be said about an AU-P'Dam matchup yet this decade.

Saturday - Ithaca at Potsdam, Hartwick at Oneonta, Utica at SUNYIT, Fredonia/Houghton at RIT, Geneseo at Fisher, Alfred at St. Lawrence: Utica-IT should be a close one, but I'm looking for everybody but AU to go home happy.  Even IC way up there in South Canada.

EDIT: Well I'll be darned, Oneonta is 3-0 in the SUNYAC.  Highly unusual.  Rougher for 'Wick than I thought.  Big rivalry game in front of all six d3 basketball fans in Oneonta.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 04, 2006, 06:32:40 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 04, 2006, 06:17:15 PM
THIS WEEK IN THE EMPIRE 8

Monday - Green Mountain at Hartwick: 'Wick to win big.  C'mon Hawks, play somebody already.

Tuesday - Ithaca at Cortland, Utica at Skidmore, Oswego at Nazareth, Alfred at Geneseo: UC should roll over the Thoroughbreds, but it's tough going for the 3 SUNY showdowns.  Can we please beat Cortland at a sport soon?  This is getting very irritating.  Max and/or Jose, when was the last time we beat Cortland in hoops?  Feels like it's been a while.

Wednesday - Elmira at Colgate: Sure, that's just what EC needs, to play a D1 team.  That's some hardcore scheduling, 'Gate.  That'll get your boys ready for Bucknell and Holy Cross all right.

Thursday - Bard at Hartwick (what did I just say?? You're on notice, Hartwick!); Cortland at Utica; UR at Fisher: We'll know more after Tuesday but I don't see why UC can't take down C-State at home.  Can Fisher beat the Jackets in their crackerjack box gym?

Friday - Ithaca at St. Lawrence, Hobart at RIT, Alfred at Potsdam; IC to lose, RIT to win, Alfred at least has a chance, which is something that couldn't be said about an AU-P'Dam matchup yet this decade.

Saturday - Ithaca at Potsdam, Hartwick at Oneonta, Utica at SUNYIT, Fredonia/Houghton at RIT, Geneseo at Fisher, Alfred at St. Lawrence: Utica-IT should be a close one, but I'm looking for everybody but AU to go home happy.  Even IC way up there in South Canada.

EDIT: Well I'll be darned, Oneonta is 3-0 in the SUNYAC.  Highly unusual.  Rougher for 'Wick than I thought.  Big rivalry game in front of all six d3 basketball fans in Oneonta.

Last I can remember off the top of my head is a win over them my freshman year in 1999-2000 but, I am certain it has happened since then.

Man, tough for the boys, that St. Lawrence-Potsdam weekend always sucked.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on December 04, 2006, 06:53:51 PM
To Tigerfan2, to say that Brockport got a lot of pub in the papers and the news when they were undefeated is completely incorrect. I can specifically remember see headlines in the D & C that said "U of R Upset" while in the little side article it said Brockport beats whoever they beat.

While two years ago, Fisher was world beaters while they played possibly the weakest schedule in the country. Going undefeated is a great feat but they didn't play anyone and the D & C were all over them like flies on poop. It was definitely funny to see the tiny little article in the paper after Fisher got bullied by Potsdam. I think the article might have been next to the porno shop ad.

Brockport has never gotten the coverage in the Rochester area in part because of the writers at the D & C being Fisher grads. And as most of know Brockport and Fisher do not get along.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 04, 2006, 07:47:50 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 04, 2006, 05:05:12 PM
Good point about RIT.  It has to be considered a Rochester school Max.

It isn't called

Not so much in Rochester as Near Rochester Institute of Technology.

NSMIRANRIT (for those of you playing the home game).

I have to take a shot here...

Shouldnt RIT be re-named South Henrietta Institute of Technology... :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 04, 2006, 08:40:09 PM
Idk about the easiest schedule in the country, they played, springfield which was ranked in the top #25 at their place, newark NJ very good team, all the local area teams, and lebonan valley. No teams in the region, ever play hard schedules except U of R, and sometime Ithaca plays a decesnt non-conf schedule with weaks mixed in as well.  No matter which team ever comes out of this region their schedule is going to be considered weak since this region as a whole is considered one of the weakest if not the weakest.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 04, 2006, 09:22:59 PM
Caz, I think we either swept them or split a home-and-home with them the year after we graduated...so winter 2004/2005.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on December 04, 2006, 10:46:40 PM
Ok, they beat Springfield and Newark, NJ. I do believe Newark, NJ is a city not a college but that's just my state school education. Yes, they did play Lebanon Valley in the NCAA tourney, so that wouldn't count on their strength of schedule.

To say that most area teams don't have a good strength of schedule is not very true. Do you remember Brockport in '04 when they had an at large bid because they had the 6th toughest schedule in the country. As I do recall they even got a bye and beat a NESCAC school. Has Fisher ever beaten a NESCAC school in postseason play? I believe that would be a great measuring stick for an idea of good teams in the East and Northeast Region. I believe Brockport beat Trinity twice and beat Amherst once. They did get smacked by Williams when the Ephs lost to Stevens Point at the buzzer in the National Championship game.

Fisher's argument for that could be the year they went undefeated they would've played a NESCAC school if they would've hosted the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 games. One of the main reasons they didn't host is because of their strength of schedule or lack thereof.

A couple of years ago Fisher pulled out of the usual Brockport game because that is always a tough game for them and I think they replaced them with the perenial powerhouse Cazenovia. Not only did they pull out of the heated rivalry, they pulled out in August which for most of you that don't know about scheduling is extremely late.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 04, 2006, 11:03:06 PM
Rutger-Newark sorry about that.  And yeah Bport did play a couple good teams in 04.  All in all, the majority of the teams up here just dont scheduled, dont ask me why, but they dont.  And I dont believe Fisher backed out of playing bport (It was bport I believe) they only took 1 year off and when fisher went 28-0 i believe bport was one of the teams they beat by 15, 13 the year before and Fisher beat Bport by more then 20 last year (In the Chase).  Either way it doesn't matter, bport hasnt been a contender for years.  Anyways, playing NESCAC schools should be sought out by more schools, that is why i included hamilton in a team that goes out and plays a few tough games. 

Since the undefeated team, Fisher has finally made its schedule tougher, last year playing almost all non-conf games on the road including balwin wallace and randolph macon.  And this year, they have Bport, Geneseo, Cortland, York PA, UofR and the Chyase to help prepare for later in the season. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on December 05, 2006, 12:02:49 AM
IC swept Cortland 62-54, 79-70 within three weeks at onset of 04-05 season
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 05, 2006, 01:26:48 PM
god- can you guys stop the moaning?

everybody crying for respect - back off
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woot returns on December 05, 2006, 06:13:51 PM
i saw the utica-hamilton game the other night. correct me if im wrong, but utica seems to be an incredibly well coached team. although there are only one or two starson the team, they all play extremely hard and are well-disciplined. their intensity almost makes up for their lack of natural talent. hamilton, meanwhile, has the talent but plays with no heart and is very poorly coached. everyone knows their role on the utica team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 05, 2006, 10:23:54 PM
UC beats Skidmore 69-55.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 05, 2006, 10:26:22 PM
Quote from: woot returns on December 05, 2006, 06:13:51 PM
i saw the utica-hamilton game the other night. correct me if im wrong, but utica seems to be an incredibly well coached team. although there are only one or two starson the team, they all play extremely hard and are well-disciplined. their intensity almost makes up for their lack of natural talent. hamilton, meanwhile, has the talent but plays with no heart and is very poorly coached. everyone knows their role on the utica team.


I've played and coached sports on the college and high school level and I can honestly say that I have never been around a better coach and person than Coach Goodemote.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 05, 2006, 10:27:44 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 04, 2006, 05:05:12 PM
Good point about RIT.  It has to be considered a Rochester school Max.

It isn't called

Not so much in Rochester as Near Rochester Institute of Technology.

NSMIRANRIT (for those of you playing the home game).

Had a classmate of mine from Alfred-Almond who went to RIT for photography (outstanding)...he contended that the school was actually located in South Henrietta, which would make it South Henrietta Institute of Technology (S.H.I.T.)

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 05, 2006, 10:29:01 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on December 04, 2006, 07:47:50 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 04, 2006, 05:05:12 PM
Good point about RIT.  It has to be considered a Rochester school Max.

It isn't called

Not so much in Rochester as Near Rochester Institute of Technology.

NSMIRANRIT (for those of you playing the home game).

I have to take a shot here...

Shouldnt RIT be re-named South Henrietta Institute of Technology... :D

Oh my gosh.....go ahead and accuse me of plagiarism! Guilty as charged!

I'm lost on the hoops board...struggle to make the transition from AU football to AU basketball, for personal reasons.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 05, 2006, 10:35:18 PM
Result as reported on SUNYAC board:
Geneseo 67, Alfred 50
AU drops to 2-4 overall in non-conference play; Empire 8 Conference play begins in January.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 05, 2006, 10:39:48 PM
Although I'm mostly a lurking reader on the football boards, welcome aboard AUPepBand, we need some Saxomaphone representation in hoops.

Bombers 67, Cortland 61 tonight at their place.  ;D ;D ;D

Burton and Bostic with 12 each for IC, which won 43-35 on the glass.  Ithaca took the lead just over 4 minutes in and never trailed again although the lead was never double digits (it was also never one possession in the final 17 minutes).  Cortland shot just 36.5% from the field and a dreadful 47.4% from the stripe.

Utica beat Skidmore but Naz and Alfred went down to Oswego and Geneseo respectively.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 06, 2006, 01:33:32 AM
Five Bombers (Burton, Joe, Stahn, Bostic, Leahy) in double-figures and almost a sixth (Brown with 8). Can't complain about that balance. IC will have to continue that to have success. Good win tonight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 06, 2006, 09:44:30 AM
Looking at the box scores, I cannot figure out why Leahy can't get into the starting lineup.

AUPB: Do you remember the guy that used to dress up like a cow at AU Hoops games?  Classic.  The funniest heckler I have ever heard.

EDIT:  Just read the recap.  Nice to see we hit a free throw in the final three seconds to ice the win.  Always been IC's achilles heel for some reason.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 06, 2006, 11:02:24 AM
I didn't realize there was a difference between North and South Henrietta but whatever.
RIT did have a downtown campus originally but moved the campus to Henrietta in the 50's/60's I believe in order to expand. Now they seem to build something new there every year.

I didn't see if this was noted earlier but RIT was swept by SLU and Clarkson on the North Country Road trip although both look to be solid teams this year.

Not actually seeing any of the games, it looks like RIT is expecting Zeinfeld, Geathers and Bacon to do most of the scoring this year which they seem to be doing, they just aren't getting any help from anyone else right now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ICbombers06 on December 06, 2006, 12:10:41 PM
Nice win for the bombers.  Always a good win when you can pick one up against cortland.  Starting to see a lot more balance from this team then seen in past years where they seemed more reliant on just a few guys.  Bostic looks like he is starting to get his legs back from football and is also starting to develop more of a competitive edge, which if he continues to do can be really  dangerous.

Big weekend for the Bombers coming up as that is usually not historically a good trip when they have to travel up north.  And everyone knows that Dobbs is going to be looking to make up for the drubbing Ithaca gave them last year.  Any word on St. Lawerence?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 06, 2006, 12:49:06 PM
Quote from: ICbombers06 on December 06, 2006, 12:10:41 PM
Big weekend for the Bombers coming up as that is usually not historically a good trip when they have to travel up north.  And everyone knows that Dobbs is going to be looking to make up for the drubbing Ithaca gave them last year. 

IC did pound Potsdam last year due in large part to the 15 Andrusciewicz laid on them.

+k to the new Bomber poster.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 06, 2006, 12:50:53 PM
SLU is undefeated at this point and already has wins over E8 teams RIT (by 4) and Elmira (by a lot).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on December 06, 2006, 02:26:25 PM
Ithaca did pound Potsdam last year in Ben Light with the help of Brian Joe getting out of his early season shooting slump. And boy did he shoot out of it. Potsdam looked like a deer in headlights, maybe in part because of their close loss with Alfred the night before.

We'll also see which Potsdam shows up. Because if it is the one that lost twice to Clarkson then they could end 1st semester with only two wins. If they play like they did against Brockport in the second half it should be a good one.

It is always nice to see former assistants play their old head coach with Dobbs and Mullins. I think Mullins has on a 2-1 edge on Dobbs.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 07, 2006, 01:14:32 PM
Utica takes on cortland tonight. My alma mater vs. my wife's. Should be a good game. Let's go UC.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 07, 2006, 01:22:04 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 07, 2006, 01:14:32 PM
Utica takes on cortland tonight. My alma mater vs. my wife's. Should be a good game. Let's go UC.

Cortland sounded pretty rough in their home loss to IC.  UC should roll.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 07, 2006, 01:31:54 PM
Any thoughts on the big Fisher Vs UofR game tonight?  This is a great measuring stick on how good Fisher really is.  Should be an excellent game.  Although UofR seems to be a year away from being the leader in the UAA conf. They are very disciplined and are very well coached.  I am taking UofR by 8-12 as Coach Neer will fully exploit the young inexperience guards of Fisher.  In order beat a team with a structure like UofR's you either have to be redhot from behind the Arc or an experienced ladin team.  Either way i'll be there routing for Fisher, go Cardinals!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 07, 2006, 02:11:16 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 06, 2006, 09:44:30 AM
AUPB: Do you remember the guy that used to dress up like a cow at AU Hoops games?  Classic.  The funniest heckler I have ever heard.

Jose:
The cow was a back-up tailback for AU and a good friend. Attended his graduation party in Lewiston, NY (near Niagara Falls) and presented graduation gift of a Holstein pillow. Hilarious kid. Speak with him online on occasion...trained and poised to be a teacher, perhaps his cow outfit got him into a different pasture as he's now a sales rep for BOSE, having just been transferred from Chicago to Boston.

U-G-L-Y, you don't have no alibi....you're UGLY....you're UGLY!
M-A-M-A, that is why you look that way, your Mama!....your Mama!

Yeah, Saxon Sillies were top notch.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 07, 2006, 02:11:54 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 07, 2006, 01:31:54 PM
Any thoughts on the big Fisher Vs UofR game tonight?  This is a great measuring stick on how good Fisher really is.  Should be an excellent game.  Although UofR seems to be a year away from being the leader in the UAA conf. They are very disciplined and are very well coached.  I am taking UofR by 8-12 as Coach Neer will fully exploit the young inexperience guards of Fisher.  In order beat a team with a structure like UofR's you either have to be redhot from behind the Arc or an experienced ladin team.  Either way i'll be there routing for Fisher, go Cardinals!

Any chance the hoop guys are a little distracted by all the pomp and circumstance surrounding the football team's run?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 07, 2006, 02:12:38 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on December 07, 2006, 02:11:16 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 06, 2006, 09:44:30 AM
AUPB: Do you remember the guy that used to dress up like a cow at AU Hoops games?  Classic.  The funniest heckler I have ever heard.

Jose:
The cow was a back-up tailback for AU and a good friend. Attended his graduation party in Lewiston, NY (near Niagara Falls) and presented graduation gift of a Holstein pillow. Hilarious kid. Speak with him online on occasion...trained and poised to be a teacher, perhaps his cow outfit got him into a different pasture as he's now a sales rep for BOSE, having just been transferred from Chicago to Boston.

U-G-L-Y, you don't have no alibi....you're UGLY....you're UGLY!
M-A-M-A, that is why you look that way, your Mama!....your Mama!

Yeah, Saxon Sillies were top notch.


My favorite road trip when I was playing.  I actually took a minute to tell them they were hilarious while someone was shooting free throws.  I probably got yelled at for not paying attention.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 07, 2006, 02:35:41 PM
Jose:
Sent you a personal message.

Have you given me my daily ration of +K today?

+k to you...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 07, 2006, 02:55:17 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on December 07, 2006, 02:35:41 PM
Jose:
Sent you a personal message.

Have you given me my daily ration of +K today?

+k to you...

All the regulars get +k when I am on.

EDIT: Back at you pep.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 07, 2006, 02:56:52 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on December 07, 2006, 02:11:16 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 06, 2006, 09:44:30 AM
AUPB: Do you remember the guy that used to dress up like a cow at AU Hoops games?  Classic.  The funniest heckler I have ever heard.

Jose:
The cow was a back-up tailback for AU and a good friend. Attended his graduation party in Lewiston, NY (near Niagara Falls) and presented graduation gift of a Holstein pillow. Hilarious kid. Speak with him online on occasion...trained and poised to be a teacher, perhaps his cow outfit got him into a different pasture as he's now a sales rep for BOSE, having just been transferred from Chicago to Boston.

U-G-L-Y, you don't have no alibi....you're UGLY....you're UGLY!
M-A-M-A, that is why you look that way, your Mama!....your Mama!

Yeah, Saxon Sillies were top notch.



I forgot all about that guy until now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 07, 2006, 03:00:26 PM
I can't believe that Colgate played Elmira. I don't get the purpose of that game for either team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 07, 2006, 06:18:27 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 07, 2006, 01:31:54 PM
Any thoughts on the big Fisher Vs UofR game tonight?  

Yeah, I wish it happened two years ago.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 07, 2006, 10:07:51 PM
Fisher proves it is still a team to be reckond with beating U of R by 2 in overtime...Sounded like a real good game. Fisher had a chance to win it in overtime but missed a freethrow..but they took care of the ball, and the score in ot.

Big win for Fisher, Big game for Mcsweeny.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 07, 2006, 10:34:04 PM
Great win for Fisher, congrats Cards fans.

Utica rolled over Cortland as predicted....Hartwick stomped Bard to move to a delightfully illegitimate 6-2.

Box score notes coming up in a few.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: coach no name on December 07, 2006, 10:46:24 PM
As i stated earlier, fisher proved tonight that they are indeed the best team in rochester.  Fisher coulda put it away but a questionable non call on a block by Onyurika.  Waterloos homeboy dan mueller was quiet the whole game but came up huge hitting a 25 footer wit a minute left in rovertime.  PG timmy coyne also played well wit mark bearden grabbing 2 big rebounds at the end of the game.  The trio of mscweeny beigel and smalt was to much for the U of R big guys to handle.  FIsher plays geneseo this saturday night at manning napier.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 07, 2006, 10:55:22 PM
Hartwick 81, Bard 54: Jan KooKooforCoacoaPuffs scores 16 points; 'Wick outrebounds Bard 55-23.

Just looking at this box score made me throw up in my mouth a little.  I would like to make Bard play Elmira in front of all the people I don't like, then lock the gym doors and run.

SJF 79, UofR 77 (OT): Dan McSweeney with 19 points, 6 boards, 6 steals; Matt Newman tosses in 12 off the bench.  Jeff Juron had a big game for the Bees with 15-5-9 and 4 steals.  16 for Mike Chmielowiec and 15 for Jon Onyiriuka.  Several unnecessary letters in your last name may not be a requirement to play for them but I'd say it helps.  They also started an Uche Ndubizu.  Rochacha with sucktacular FT shooting (12-28, 42.9%), safe to say that cost them the game.

Utica 72, Cortland 58: Ray Bryant.  Dear Lord.  32 pts, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 4 steals on 12-18 shooting.  Doug Herring plays trusty sidekick with 11 points and 6 assists.  Carson Niehoff with 14 off the bench for C-State.  Dragons led by 1 early in second half before UC goes on 26-6 run in next 10 minutes to win going away.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: assassin on December 07, 2006, 11:07:06 PM
Big win for Fisher tonight in a Physical game against U of R.  Newman impressed down the stretch and their bigs won the battle.  Next up is Geneseo on Friday night.  Should be a decent game but Fisher's bigs should get the job done at home.  Fisher by 12...what do we think?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 08, 2006, 09:33:58 AM
I think its going to be Fisher in a close.  Geneseo is very well discipline with some talent and good big guys as well.  With a team like Fisher, they can beat some really good teams bc of their solid bigs and talented guards, but the inexperience, lack of leadership, and lack of a dominate scoring threat on the wing is going to cost them a few unexpected games. but overall they will have an excellent season and will get better each game, which is always a good thing.  Yes, i think UofR is much better then Bport but the styles of to two teams match up differently vs fisher.  back to the Geneseo game, Its going to be a close one, but I have Fisher by 5-10.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 08, 2006, 08:05:57 PM
I am a little bit worried about the Geneseo game...They are a good team, not as talented as Fisher (they never are), but they are good enough to beat Fisher. SJF is a young team, and young teams tend to be up and down.

Kornaker has to get the young guys ready to play a tough game, and not take Geneseo lightly.

Having said all that, I think he will, cause he is a very good coach, and I will take Fisher by 4
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: zola on December 09, 2006, 11:54:18 AM
No  worries for SJF this evening. Geneseo's Scott Morton is smooth, composed soph. Kitson can be a difficult matchup but can also disappearsfor too long stretches. Knights have 18-wheeler size up front:  takes a while to get out of 1st. SJF by 10+
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on December 09, 2006, 01:01:06 PM
If Sciera and Howe show up then they could give Fisher problems. But that is a big "IF." Howe could be one of the most talented bigs in the conference but for some reason whether its lack of confidence or lack of killer intinct he doesn't show up all the time.

Except a slight letdown after emotionally victory against UofR. It is always tough to play good teams on consecutive games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2006, 02:55:58 PM
Now that Fisher's football season is finally over (and congrats on a great season), it's time to really focus on hoops in the E8. Here are my pre-conference season picks:

POY: Ray Bryant-Utica

Consensus favorite. Should be able to run away with this thing.

ROY: Corey McAdam-Naz

The kid can play. Put up monster numbers against UR. Ithaca's Leahy is listed as a sophomore so I'm not sure if he qualifies, though I don't remember him being on the roster last year. If he does qualify, he could potentially challenge as he is likely going to become their go-to-guy.

1st Team All-Conference

F- Ray Bryant (UC)
F- Justin Beigel (SJF)
C- Dan McSweeney (SJF)
G- Doug Herring (UC)
G- Joe Canori (Naz)

I think Burton could potentially challenge Herring for that spot and I do think the two will end up with similarly impressive numbers. That said, tie goes to the player on the better team. Herring is my pick.

Projected Standings

1) Utica (12-2): Probably gonna catch some flack for saying they will lose a whopping two games in the conference. Whatever. I think they split with Fisher and lose on the road to one of the Rochester teams. The Men's E8 Tourney will finally have a new location.

2) Fisher (11-3): And this is in a "rebuilding" year. You know Fisher will protect its home court. Beigel and McSweeney will have to carry this team. Should dominate all their opponents on the glass. I think they split with Utica and Naz and lose one at either RIT or at Ithaca. Still should come down to SJF and UC in the E8 final.

3) Ithaca (9-5): Call it what ya wanna call it. Maybe I'm being too much of a homer, but I like the way this team plays. Maybe that has something to do with the fact that the ball won't be in Whetstone's hands for the 30 minutes a game. Either way, I feel comfortable with Burton running the ship and getting a different high-scorer each night between him, Bostic, Leahy, and Stahn.

4) Naz (8-6): I've said for awhile: Until they can start playing defense on a consistent basis, they will not be an elite team. They can beat any team in this conference on a given night, but I think they can also lose to everyone (besides Elmira) if they decide to sleepwalk through a game. I think they probably get swept by UC, split with IC, RIT, and Fisher, then have a bad loss (as they always do) against Alfred or Hartwick.

5) RIT (7-7): Not completely devoid of talent, but, besides Bacon and Zeinfeld, probably dont have any guys that we know about. McVean is probably gets the most out of his players of any coach in this conference, in my opinion. I think they're good enough to scare some teams this year, but bad enough to lose to a couple teams they probably wouldn't have lost to in years past.

6) Hartwick (5-9): I just vomited in my mouth thinking about this team winning five conference games and having a legit chance to win in almost every conference game. What's the over/under on MadHawk's return? The early projection is 1/24.

7) Alfred  (4-10): Add a "historically underachieving team" to "has less talent than the last two years" and this is what you get. Saxons have a nice frontcourt with Stein, et al. I think they lose some early games in the conference season and pack it in from there, as they usually do.

8) Elmira  (0-14): Whatever.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 09, 2006, 03:43:55 PM
Excellent Analysis GoBomber.  I have to say I agree with just about everything you wrote. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2006, 05:04:19 PM
Ithaca loses to undefeated St. Lawrence in Canton, 76-63. The Saints sprint to a fourteen point lead at half. Bombers push back and open second stanza with an 18-4 run to tie it. St. Lawrence keeps the lead between four and eight until the last two minutes when they pull away on FT's.

Happy to see IC rally in the 2nd half after the atrocious way they played early. The team doesn't have any quit in them. It's too bad they had to expend so much energy getting back in the game and just didn't have what it took to get over the hump.

Bombers led by Jeff Bostic's 21 pts and 9 rebs. Looks like he's really hitting his stride and improving every time he hits the court. Could be a bad thing for the rest of the E8. Sean Stahn chips in 14 and 6; Sean Burton with 12 for Ithaca.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 09, 2006, 07:24:18 PM
Football over now- hard to get over but.......

Fisher in the "rebuilding" stage still is tough esp at home-
UC and Ray Bryant may be the team to beat- Spanked SUNYIT today.
Hartwick?   Lets hope madhawks laptop crashed!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 09, 2006, 07:48:47 PM
UC 99 Suny-IT 76.


Ray Bryant with 26 points, 20 rebounds, and 7 assists. Jack Lighthall with 25 points and 7 boards. Doug Herring had 8 points and 9 assists. Brian Collier had 13 points. Bobby Whyte had 11 points.

Game was never in doubt after the first 10 minutes. Bryant had 4 less rebounds that Suny IT. Herring had 1 less assist than the wildcats. Great game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 09, 2006, 10:01:19 PM
Fisher squeaks it out against Geneseo tonight...allowing me to feel a little bit better after the football game today...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: coach no name on December 09, 2006, 11:05:25 PM
Big game outta danny mscweeny helps fisher beat geneseo.  Fisher shows that even when they arent hittin the 3 ball then can still generate offense.  Mike mckeever was huge off the bench and i feel was the reason fisher won tonight.  He banged 2 huge 3 pointers and was calm and collected against the geneseo press.  TImmy coyne forced the 5 second call that gave fisher the ball back at the end of the game wit the score tied.  Good teams win close games, thats 2 big wins for fisher in the last 3 days
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 10, 2006, 03:08:59 AM
Ray Bryant 20 boards? I know he has all the hype and what not but he definatly exploits his talent to the highest.  I mean he has no dribble, no jumper, but i will say he creates amazing mismatches at the powerforward or the 3 spot for most teams.  He has a nose for the basket.  I just dont see how he does it, i truthfully dont think hes that amazing.  Anyways, great win for Fisher, beats the best team in the SUNYAC in my opinion after a tough battle with the 2nd best team in Rochester UofR.  When Fishers guards are playing well (didnt tonight) they can beat anyone in the Region, when they are playin the norm, they can lose to a lot of teams.  This being said they will lose a few games to teams the shouldnt lose too, they have very bad perimiter defense (the 2-3 zone one them the game tonight) and make too many mistakes, however, there big men are better then anyone in the Region (besides NYU).  All in all two great wins for Fisher, and goodluck against Cortland (will beat) and York (maybe depends on the guards).  Fisher should contend for the E8 title but it will be close against Utica.  We'll see how Fisher plays on the road. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 10, 2006, 11:01:11 AM
I am kind of interested in how the Fisher season will progress through the season...

I think winning close games early in the season the way they have the last two games will be huge later in the season for a young team... I am sure that they will lose a few more games this year than they have in the last few years,...I am thinking around 6 or 7.
The more I follow this years team in the early season the more confident I become that they can and will challenge for the E8 title. the biggest reason for the spike in confidence is that Fisher could easily be 2-3, However, with a young team and an inexperienced backcourt...they have found a way to win and are standing at 4-1...winning games, and building confidence and talent can go a long way to winning huge games late in the season, against E8 teams, when they matter most...

My prediction for the E8 season:
1)Fisher
2)Utica
3)Naz
4)Ithaca
5)RIT
6)Alfred
7)Hartwick
8)Elmira

I seems a little harder to predict the league this year...picking 1 & 2 was tough, but I am sure it will be those 2 teams in some order...but the rest of the league was a lot harder to predict than previous years.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: assassin on December 10, 2006, 02:06:45 PM
What a game last night between Fisher and Geneseo!  Geneseo outplays Fisher for most of the night but goes cold over last 5 min. and misses somekey free throws.  McSweeney played like a stud and Geneseo's guards outplayed Fisher's.  That being said, it was a TRAVESTY for a great game like that to be decided by a bogus call with 4 seconds left instead of letting the players decide it.  A squirmish on the floor (25 ft. from basket) for a loose ball ends up in a terrible reach in call that sends McSweeney to the line to hit the winning FT.  You cannot make that call.  Should have been a jump ball or no call and let the players decide the game in OT.  Very suspect to say the least.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: not_josh_reed on December 10, 2006, 08:56:37 PM
A squirmish on the floor (25 ft. from basket) for a loose ball ends up in a terrible reach in call that sends McSweeney to the line to hit the winning FT.  You cannot make that call.  Should have been a jump ball or no call and let the players decide the game in OT.

Good point roc fan, incidently this call was made right in front of the fisher bench, the Geneseo coach must feel it was a home job.  Should have been a jump ball and finished in ot.

What really lost the game however was Geneseo not scoring in the last six minutes. 

Fisher is lucky to be 4-1.  This early success will not continue unless the guards elevate their play. Last night with 43 minutes of play between coyne and newman they had 3 points.  Thank god Mckiever chipped in two threes off the bench to give the guards some production.  He also seemed to have more court presence then the other two.   They will be schooled by Canorie and McAdam when Fisher visits Nazareth on Jan 6th

Lastly what is the deal with the other Beigel? He must be a great baseball player but is a waste of a roster spot and bench space in basketball.  His two minutes on the court were an insult to Fenyn/Beardon.  What could Kornacker  be thinking?

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 10, 2006, 09:48:36 PM
Yeah, Fisher was pretty fortunate (not luck) to win the last 2 games.  In both games, Fisher was down most of the game but stuck around and made it happen when it counted.  And yes their guards are going to be suspect all season, their young and small.  However, when they get great games from them they can beat anyone in the Region and when they get their norm they will be in any game but will drop some games.  As far as getting schooled by Naz i have to disagree.  Its going to be another very close game,  Naz isnt as good as Geneseo or UofR.  Fisher being 4-1 with the teams they play is excellent.  They will only get better as the season goes on, and the majority of the games they play they will win on talent alone.  So all in all they should end up with another good record my guess is 20-6.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reelentless on December 11, 2006, 11:52:29 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 10, 2006, 03:08:59 AM
Ray Bryant 20 boards? I know he has all the hype and what not but he definatly exploits his talent to the highest.  I mean he has no dribble, no jumper, but i will say he creates amazing mismatches at the powerforward or the 3 spot for most teams.  He has a nose for the basket.  I just dont see how he does it, i truthfully dont think hes that amazing. 


It's magic!   Don't watch the wand, watch the magician.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 11, 2006, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: reelentless on December 11, 2006, 11:52:29 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 10, 2006, 03:08:59 AM
Ray Bryant 20 boards? I know he has all the hype and what not but he definatly exploits his talent to the highest.  I mean he has no dribble, no jumper, but i will say he creates amazing mismatches at the powerforward or the 3 spot for most teams.  He has a nose for the basket.  I just dont see how he does it, i truthfully dont think hes that amazing. 


It's magic!   Don't watch the wand, watch the magician.



;D If you think Ray doesn't have a jumper and dribble then you havn't seen him play very often. His jumper and dribble are a huge part of what makes him so dangerous. He can go by you or simply put a 3 or long 2 in your eye. When he shoots it, the net barely moves as the shot goes in.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 11, 2006, 01:26:10 PM
I exagerated on the no jumper no dribble.  He does have a solid jumper and a solid dribble especially for a 4 man.  He is too strong for most guards to cover and too quick for most powerforwards, therefore creates many mismatches.  Its just when I see him play, his game is a little rugged than most all-american type players.  Dont get me wrong, he gets the job done and plays very hard, I just think when he has plays agains very good oppenants that have similar type players then he gets put back to reality. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 11, 2006, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 11, 2006, 01:26:10 PM
I exagerated on the no jumper no dribble.  He does have a solid jumper and a solid dribble especially for a 4 man.  He is too strong for most guards to cover and too quick for most powerforwards, therefore creates many mismatches.  Its just when I see him play, his game is a little rugged than most all-american type players.  Dont get me wrong, he gets the job done and plays very hard, I just think when he has plays agains very good oppenants that have similar type players then he gets put back to reality. 


I don't know man. He averaged over 20 points and 10 boards against teams that meet those standards in the tourny last year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 11, 2006, 02:14:55 PM
Sounds like UCGrad45 has a Man Crush on Ray Bryant.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 11, 2006, 02:46:48 PM
I didnt see the WPI game but against Fisher all 4 games, neither of them did he play great and score alot, he may have gotten 20 in one of them, however, the game was already out of hand and most were garbage points off put backs or free throws.  But enough talk about Ray, hes a very good player, and one of the best in the league, so theres no point in arguing over how good he is.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 11, 2006, 02:50:28 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on December 11, 2006, 02:14:55 PM
Sounds like UCGrad45 has a Man Crush on Ray Bryant.

Like you don't.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 11, 2006, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 11, 2006, 02:46:48 PM
I didnt see the WPI game but against Fisher all 4 games, neither of them did he play great and score alot, he may have gotten 20 in one of them, however, the game was already out of hand and most were garbage points off put backs or free throws.  But enough talk about Ray, hes a very good player, and one of the best in the league, so theres no point in arguing over how good he is.

He tore it up against WPI and Gordon. The 6'10 and 6'9 kids at WPI really didn't do very much. Gordan was interesting because with Lighthall being out, both teams were pretty much 5 guard lineups with some tall F/G that were talented.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hooplafan on December 11, 2006, 05:19:32 PM
so how has Baltz looked for Fisher this year? 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 11, 2006, 06:07:33 PM
Quote from: hooplafan on December 11, 2006, 05:19:32 PM
so how has Baltz looked for Fisher this year? 

I have not really made up my mind about Baltz yet...He has been pretty consistent...7-10 a night. I think he has shown a lot of potential for the future but I am not sure if he is going to be a key guy for Fisher this year...Maybe later in the season when he gets more comfortable with the size and strength of college players.

I think he will be a great player for Fisher in the comming years
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 11, 2006, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on December 09, 2006, 02:55:58 PM
Now that Fisher's football season is finally over (and congrats on a great season), it's time to really focus on hoops in the E8. Here are my pre-conference season picks:

7) Alfred  (4-10): Add a "historically underachieving team" to "has less talent than the last two years" and this is what you get. Saxons have a nice frontcourt with Stein, et al. I think they lose some early games in the conference season and pack it in from there, as they usually do.

8) Elmira  (0-14): Whatever.

'Twas gracious of you, GB15, to keep the Saxons one step above the cellar. Off to a typical 2-6 start....Coach Murphy uses the fall semester start to prep his team for a run at the E8 in spring semester.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 11, 2006, 06:46:02 PM
How is Alfred going to be this year? I feel like I have a handle on most of the teams in the league except for them...I feel like I never know what to expect out of AU
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 11, 2006, 09:55:04 PM
Guess it really depends on the kids. AUPepBand thinks highly of Dillon Stein, Ryan Clemenson, et al...but it wouldn't be fair for Pep to comment at present, having not yet seen them play. Saxons are 2-6. While the student newspaper has the usual Jay Murphy comment-laden story of "what AU must do," AUPepBand looks to the 2006-07 season as a test of the players' ability to rise above the same old mediocre situation.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 12, 2006, 08:58:29 AM
If AU wants to rise above the same old medicore situation they need to get rid of their same old medicore coach.

No one has wasted more talent in the E8 than Jay Murphy, and it's not even close.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 12, 2006, 09:14:25 AM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on December 12, 2006, 08:58:29 AM
If AU wants to rise above the same old medicore situation they need to get rid of their same old medicore coach.

No one has wasted more talent in the E8 than Jay Murphy, and it's not even close.

I'll second that.  Devon Downing was probably the best player to play in the Empire 8.  The year they had Downing and EJ Docteur they not only should have won the league but made a deep run in the tournament.  Downing was incredible.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 12, 2006, 10:59:37 AM
Disagree, Carl Jefferson for Fisher was the best player to play in the E8, too bad he only played a semester before he dropped out with a 0.0 haha.  This kid could have played big time D1, he woulda been the probably the best guard in the MAAC.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 12, 2006, 11:18:34 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 12, 2006, 10:59:37 AM
Disagree, Carl Jefferson for Fisher was the best player to play in the E8, too bad he only played a semester before he dropped out with a 0.0 haha.  This kid could have played big time D1, he woulda been the probably the best guard in the MAAC.

I'll admit that I have no clue who he is.  Downing was a major d-1 type player as well.  Only thing that must have limited his opportunities was his height.  He was probably about 5'10 at best. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 12, 2006, 12:57:20 PM
Jefferson was very talented but he was terrible for team chemistry. Fisher actually played better the 2nd semester after he failed out.
I believe that Fisher lost to Alfred because Jefferson took all the shots and tried to beat Downing head to head but in the rematch Fisher won because they played team basketball.
And as far as previous Div I players, didn't Maroney from Naz play Div. I before playing for Naz.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 12, 2006, 01:01:39 PM
Yeah Jefferson wasnt the best team player but he was by far the most talented.  It just seemed to easy for him, he could get whatever shot whenever he wanted.  Yes, Maroney start for San Diego State before transfering to Naz.  However, Maroney is no where near one of the best. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on December 12, 2006, 01:05:24 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on December 10, 2006, 11:01:11 AM

My prediction for the E8 season:
1)Fisher
2)Utica
3)Naz
4)Ithaca
5)RIT
6)Alfred
7)Hartwick
8)Elmira

I seems a little harder to predict the league this year...picking 1 & 2 was tough, but I am sure it will be those 2 teams in some order...but the rest of the league was a lot harder to predict than previous years.


You're one of the few people that has Hartwick behind AU. The Saxons will never amount to much in the E8 as long as Murphy is leading them. He knows how to misuse his players and keep studs like Stein from developing as they should. He also has no idea what he's doing on the sidelines, it's almost like he thinks the louder he is the better his players will play, never mind that his instruction leaves a lot to be desired.

As for the two teams this year, AU is 2-6, with wins against Hilbert, 79-77 in OT and Allegheny, 73-57. Among the teams they've lost to are Moravian, NYU, Cortland, Geneseo, Potsdam and St. Lawrence.

While Hartwick's schedule has been a bit of a cakewalk (to put it mildly), the Hawks are 7-2, with losses coming against Hamilton (78-67) and Elms (73-68). While Hartwick doesn't really have any notable wins (maybe Oneonta and Skidmore), they do have 7 wins.

I think the rest of the predictions are on except I'd flip-flop Fisher and Utica. I know SJF has been tops in the league for some time, this is somewhat of a younger team and the more experienced Utica team will edge the Cardinals because of that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on December 12, 2006, 01:08:09 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 12, 2006, 11:18:34 AM

I'll admit that I have no clue who he is.  Downing was a major d-1 type player as well.  Only thing that must have limited his opportunities was his height.  He was probably about 5'10 at best. 

Jose,

Downing's drinking problems, which led him to leaving AU for a while, also probably would have made him a D-I bust.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 12, 2006, 01:14:20 PM
Quote from: rjcarter8 on December 12, 2006, 01:08:09 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 12, 2006, 11:18:34 AM

I'll admit that I have no clue who he is.  Downing was a major d-1 type player as well.  Only thing that must have limited his opportunities was his height.  He was probably about 5'10 at best. 

Jose,

Downing's drinking problems, which led him to leaving AU for a while, also probably would have made him a D-I bust.

Having played against him you could tell he was troubled but, I didn't want to speculate as to what those troubles may have been so I stuck with his height.  If he did have a drinking problem that could have kept the D1 offers away.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 12, 2006, 01:50:04 PM
I think when it comes down to looking at Jefferson and Downing you could say that they both had character issues which may have kept them on the Div III level. But if you want to talk about who was the best player in the E8 between the two I think it's pretty simple.

Jefferson played around 10 games total before failing out.

Downing played 2 full seasons and was the East Region Player of the Year.

You can't be the best if you don't actually play. Maybe if Jefferson actually made it through a full year there could be a discussion. He didn't even play against the majority of the teams in the conference.  At this point I don't even consider him.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 12, 2006, 02:20:01 PM
Good post. +k.

It made me think of an interesting question/topic for debate.

The E8 has been sponsoring basketball since 1999-2000 (ironically, JoseQViper's freshman season).  Who is on the All E8 team.  Let's try to keep it to first and second team.

Here is a link to the All Conference teams from each season: http://empire8.com/BasketballMHistory.html
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 12, 2006, 02:54:49 PM
In terms of incredible talent that could have gone D1 and had issues, can't forget about Dewaun Cheatham from UC. Rookie of the year in 99-00. He dropped out of UC, dropped out of Fisher before he even started to play, and then made the team at Niagara and dropped out there as well.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 12, 2006, 03:01:00 PM
Regarding the all-time E8 1st/2nd teams I didn't look at the entire list provided but I think there are at least 3 guys that would be frontrunners for the 1st team.

Devon Downing - Great talent, not just E8 but East Region player of the year

Brandon Redmond - 2 time E8 player of the year, 3 time 1st team E8 and I believe he was Freshman of the Year as well, but I didn't see his Frosh year listed.

Sean O'Brien - E8 player of the year, 3 time 1st team E8.

If you go back further than 99-00 I would include Craig Jones from RIT as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 12, 2006, 03:05:58 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 12, 2006, 02:20:01 PM
Good post. +k.

It made me think of an interesting question/topic for debate.

The E8 has been sponsoring basketball since 1999-2000 (ironically, JoseQViper's freshman season).  Who is on the All E8 team.  Let's try to keep it to first and second team.

Here is a link to the All Conference teams from each season: http://empire8.com/BasketballMHistory.html



From Utica in that time period I would have to say the guys that could be considered the best players there were Ray Bryant, Justin Cichon, Tim Troy, Pat O'Conner, Steve Crawford, Dewaun Cheatham, and Willie Lucas. Give it another year and you could add Doug Herring to that list.

Other names that jump out off the top of my head from this time period, Shaun O'Brien,  Fran Snyder, Jeff Sidney, (hate to say it) Evans from Naz, I think it was Redmond from RIT, Doctuer, Downing, Tyler Schultz, Quinten Bryant, Bellis, Jeff Sidney... Coco from Hartwick could be added in a year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 12, 2006, 03:11:13 PM
I'll take Fishers starting 5 from the 28-0 team.  That year there wouldnt of have been a person from any other team in the conf. to squeeze in that line up.  Say im bias but its true.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 12, 2006, 03:23:16 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 12, 2006, 03:11:13 PM
I'll take Fishers starting 5 from the 28-0 team.  That year there wouldnt of have been a person from any other team in the conf. to squeeze in that line up.  Say im bias but its true.

Certainly you are not arguing that the five starters on that 28-0 team are the best five players to play in the E8.

P.S. I only put the cutoff at 99-00 because that was the first E8 hoop season.

Jimmy Evans at Naz really filled it up. I had forgotten about him.

You can leave Bellis out.  But an IC player that has been overlooked is Pat Britton who nearly was National Player of the Year in 99-00.

Redmond was also nasty.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 12, 2006, 03:25:09 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 12, 2006, 03:23:16 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 12, 2006, 03:11:13 PM
I'll take Fishers starting 5 from the 28-0 team.  That year there wouldnt of have been a person from any other team in the conf. to squeeze in that line up.  Say im bias but its true.

Certainly you are not arguing that the five starters on that 28-0 team are the best five players to play in the E8.

P.S. I only put the cutoff at 99-00 because that was the first E8 hoop season.

Jimmy Evans at Naz really filled it up. I had forgotten about him.

You can leave Bellis out.  But an IC player that has been overlooked is Pat Britton who nearly was National Player of the Year in 99-00.

Redmond was also nasty.


I can't believe I forgot Britton.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 12, 2006, 03:26:01 PM
I'm pretty sure Bryant from AU or Murphy from RIT could've cracked the lineup that year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 12, 2006, 03:26:33 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on December 12, 2006, 03:26:01 PM
I'm pretty sure Bryant from AU or Murphy from RIT could've cracked the lineup that year.

Cichon and Troy as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 12, 2006, 03:52:24 PM
No i def was not considering E8 history that would be crazy, Evans or Redumd would have gotten in.  And as far as bryant ( no way) he had the talent but didnt play the game right and Murphy was good as well but dont think he would have gotten in it either truthfully.  Troy maybe, Mcsweeney was a year young in 2004-2005.  Cichon was a year young as well so i say he wouldnt have yet either but close, I like Cichon's game a lot and think he was def one of the top players in the league last year. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 12, 2006, 04:00:52 PM
Anyone care to take a shot at an entire team?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 12, 2006, 04:08:45 PM
First to address the Fisher starting five, Murphy would take McGee's spot. McGee got tons of wide open looks and Murphy was just as good of a spot up shooter as McGee. He was also a better rebounder, not to mention defender, McGee was a disaster at the defensive end.

As far as the 1st team all-time E8 (99-00 to Present only).

Downing (AU)
Redmond (RIT)
O'Brien (SJF)
Britton (IC)
Jackson (EC)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 12, 2006, 04:30:23 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on December 12, 2006, 04:00:52 PM
Anyone care to take a shot at an entire team?

Could make it with a representative nominating up to 4 players from each school. From Utica I'd say Bryant, Cichon, Troy, Lucas (Herring after he is done as well).



If I had to make a first team, regardless of postion, it would be

O'Brien
Downing
Redmond
R. Bryant
Britton

Second team would be

Cichon
Evans
Snyder
Troy
Sidney





Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: coach no name on December 12, 2006, 05:27:39 PM
I think everyone is mistaken bout how good that fisher team that went undefeated was.  THey were as solid and talented of a line up as one will ever see in a d3 starting line up.  Tiger fan, wtf are u smoking.  Sean Murphy is as good of a shooter as Mike Mcgee, have u ever seen mcgee when hes on.  Bc i have, he was easily the best shooter that the empire 8 has seen or will see in a long time.  Murphy is a better player but is in no way a better 3 point shooter then mike mcgee.  Maybe u forgot this but, - every team knew that that was all mike could do and he still led all of D1 D2 and D3 in 3 point shooting percentage.  THis is after hitting 3 after 3 after 3 in the mouths of any defender who got near him.  Hes a bad defender, did u forget they had nick bennett shutting down the best palyer on every team every game.  Mcgee didnt really need to play D. Hes as pure of a shooter as they come.  young Dan msweeny was the weakest palyer in taht starting line up,yea and hes averaging about 20 ppg
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 12, 2006, 06:26:51 PM
Quote from: coach no name on December 12, 2006, 05:27:39 PM
I think everyone is mistaken bout how good that fisher team that went undefeated was.  THey were as solid and talented of a line up as one will ever see in a d3 starting line up.  Tiger fan, wtf are u smoking.  Sean Murphy is as good of a shooter as Mike Mcgee, have u ever seen mcgee when hes on.  Bc i have, he was easily the best shooter that the empire 8 has seen or will see in a long time.  Murphy is a better player but is in no way a better 3 point shooter then mike mcgee.  Maybe u forgot this but, - every team knew that that was all mike could do and he still led all of D1 D2 and D3 in 3 point shooting percentage.  THis is after hitting 3 after 3 after 3 in the mouths of any defender who got near him.  Hes a bad defender, did u forget they had nick bennett shutting down the best palyer on every team every game.  Mcgee didnt really need to play D. Hes as pure of a shooter as they come.  young Dan msweeny was the weakest palyer in taht starting line up,yea and hes averaging about 20 ppg

Coming from a neutral 3rd party, McGee had a better pure stroke. However, he also had a TON more wide open looks than Murphy and Murphy usually took more difficult shots. McGee was blessed with a great team around him. It could easily be argued that he was never more than a #3 option on ANY of those Fisher teams. While people knew he was a good 3-point shooter, he was never the focus of any team's defensive scheme; that usually belonged to Sidney, O'Brien, etc.

McGee was deadly if you left him open but I saw Murphy hit more trey's from three feet behind the line with a guy in his face than any player in all my years watching E8 hoops. I'm glad you realize Murphy was a better all-around player. McGee would score 15-20 on one end and give up just about the same on the other end; the fact that Bennett was a defensive stalwart is pretty irrelevant to this conversation.

By the way, who is this Jackson guy you mention, TF2?

Ty Schultz needs to be involved more in this conversation. The kid was a double-double threat every night since his freshman year and is probably one of the most athletic, if not the most athletic players the conference has ever seen (would put McSweeney in that convo, too...haven't seen Bryant play, so can't comment). The kid could block shots, rebound, run the floor, step out and hit a jumper; he could do it all. There was a reason people called him "freak."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 12, 2006, 08:44:49 PM
I think GB15 pretty much completed my argument as to why Murphy was a better player than McGee. I watched both of them play all 4 years and in terms of shooting Murphy was in the top 10 in 3 pt percentage in in the top 3 in 3 pointers made per game. He also was the focus of most teams defenses, unlike McGee. I'm not saying McGee wasn't the best shooter in the league because he was but Murphy was in the top 5. Take that plus the fact that he was considerably better in every other aspect of the game than McGee and that is why I said he would have played over McGee on that team.

Furthermore, how does having Nick Bennett on the roster counter the argument that he's a bad defender? McGee couldn't guard is own shadow, much less someone on the other team.

I guess they couldn't have used an extra defender in that 67-43 beating they received from Potsdam either.

GB15 - I was referring to Corrin Jackson from EC. He was 1st team E8 3 years in a row.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 12, 2006, 09:27:27 PM
I mostly agree with both GB15 and TigerFan, However, in my opinion, when you are forced to be the go to guy on a team you (getting keyed on or not) you attempt alot more shots per game and are forced to shoot harder shots (often times worse shots).  The reason I say and still think Murphy doesn't get into the line-up is because in order to have a great team you need to have roles.  Not saying murphy isn't a team player but Mike Mcghee had a role on the Fisher team, and yes he probably was the 3rd option, but again on such a good team u only need to do certain things.  I've played with Mike many times, and he can do a lot more then just shoot the 3 ball.  If he was on RIT he would be getting as many shot attempts and would have been forced to create more shots on his own.  So its a hard comparison.  Having played with both, Murphy still can create better, but as far as getting a spot in the line-up, I go with Mcghee.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on December 12, 2006, 09:55:14 PM
Mike McGee was a good solid player and fisher would not have become the team they were without him...but he is like a Kyle Korver or any other good player that is a compliment to a great team
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 12, 2006, 10:34:34 PM
QuoteI'll take Fishers starting 5 from the 28-0 team.  That year there wouldnt of have been a person from any other team in the conf. to squeeze in that line up.  Say im bias but its true.

I don't know how everyone else read this but I read this as there wasn't anyone else in the E8 that year that would have been good enough to crack the Fisher lineup, which is completely false in my opinion.

I understand that every player has a role to play and that sometimes the most talented players don't start because the team chemistry isn't as good with them in the ball game.

So if the argument is that there wasn't a better player in the E8 to fill the role of a spot of shooter for Fisher that year then yes, I would agree that McGhee was the best player for that role.

But if you're saying that there wasn't a player in the E8 that could've broken into that starting lineup than I disagree.

Since it's all hypothetical, you could argue that SJF could have been even better with someone like a Murphy starting at the 4 and bringing more than excellent 3 point shooting to the table, but also rebounding and defense.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 13, 2006, 08:54:02 AM
indeed there have been some great players in the e8 over the years, but when it comes down to it- isnt d3 bball all about the ability to get the team on the same page?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 13, 2006, 08:55:07 AM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on December 12, 2006, 08:44:49 PM
I was referring to Corrin Jackson from EC. He was 1st team E8 3 years in a row.

I forgot about this guy.  He could really fill it up.

Word on the street is Jackson was in San Diego at one point playing in a City League with IC's Jason Wallen and Will Hill.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 13, 2006, 08:58:10 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 13, 2006, 08:54:02 AM
indeed there have been some great players in the e8 over the years, but when it comes down to it- isnt d3 bball all about the ability to get the team on the same page?

I am going to respectfully disagree with my distinguished colleague on the governing council (sorry hoop guys, go read the football board and that will make sense).  I think getting guys on the same page is no more important in DIII than it is at any level.  Hoop is a sport like few others where a small ensemble of good players can win you games.  (How many games did Downing and Docteur win for AU inspite of their coach?)  In my mind there are two kinds of great D-III teams:

1) The team that has one or two outstanding DIII players (or borderline DII players) and the right supporting cast and chemistry. (Fisher's 28-0 team comes to mind).

2) The team that gets a DI player who wants to go to the school for some non-hoop reason or transfers there for some other reason.  (Think of Devean George's team -- Otterbein? -- or IC when they had Eric Pitcher in the early 90s).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 13, 2006, 09:01:19 AM
Still going with what i said, but everyone has their own opinions.  There was no way Murphy was starting at the 4 over Sidney.  The only position in the line-up that may have bee replaceable was the 5 spot.  But then again, Fisher even had Charlie Zahn (D2 transfer from Mansfeild) coming in off the bench who dominated just about everybig man in the E8 as well. 

Anyways, Good call Jose, Corrin Jackson was nasty.  He's definatly got my vote for 1st team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on December 13, 2006, 09:39:25 AM
"I think everyone is mistaken bout how good that fisher team that went undefeated was.  THey were as solid and talented of a line up as one will ever see in a d3 starting line up." - Coach No Name

They were smoked by a much better starting lineup from Potsdam.  The reason that they were smoked was because they couldn't handle defensive pressure. Both O'Brien and Sidney went into a hole and couldn't seem to get out of it that day. They had no answer at all for Ryan Lynn, Junior Clayton, Jim Connelly, Christian Turner, and Eldon Harris. Talk about a team that didn't get any respect and still doesn't. They didn't win too many individual awards but they were clearly better then Fisher.

And it is tough to say that it Fisher had a bad night because Potsdam forced them to have streaks of brown down their legs.

As far as most talented teams that I have seen, maybe look at Williams and Stevens Point's National Championship teams. Those guys were probably some of the best D3 teams ever assembled.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 13, 2006, 09:58:33 AM
Quote from: slickyquick on December 13, 2006, 09:39:25 AM
"I think everyone is mistaken bout how good that fisher team that went undefeated was.  THey were as solid and talented of a line up as one will ever see in a d3 starting line up." - Coach No Name

They were smoked by a much better starting lineup from Potsdam.  The reason that they were smoked was because they couldn't handle defensive pressure. Both O'Brien and Sidney went into a hole and couldn't seem to get out of it that day. They had no answer at all for Ryan Lynn, Junior Clayton, Jim Connelly, Christian Turner, and Eldon Harris. Talk about a team that didn't get any respect and still doesn't. They didn't win too many individual awards but they were clearly better then Fisher.

And it is tough to say that it Fisher had a bad night because Potsdam forced them to have streaks of brown down their legs.

As far as most talented teams that I have seen, maybe look at Williams and Stevens Point's National Championship teams. Those guys were probably some of the best D3 teams ever assembled.

Potsdam certainly beat Fisher but don't be so quick to assume they had the better lineup.  Pressure is the great equalizer in basketball.  Teams that effectively play pressure can level the playing field against much more talented teams.  Potsdam may have been more talented but, the pressure means the game is less indicative of that than you say it is.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 13, 2006, 10:18:45 AM
I'm with Jose again.  Sunyac teams with their uptempo can beat anyone and lose to anyone.  Bport beat Fisher this year, do I think they're better then Fisher? No way.  Fisher being 28-0 had a falling out, and when things went bad they went really bad.  When your not used to being down sometimes you fall apart.  Potsdam's line-up was not better then Fisher, it was very good but not better.  If those 2 teams played 10 times Fisher would have won atleast 7. 

I do agree with the Williams and Stevens Point Teams, those teams are unreal and no team in the East region can compare.  They may be able to pull of the upset if they make it that far, but as far as talent goes, those teams are on another level.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on December 13, 2006, 10:43:08 AM
This is becoming fun. How can you say that Fisher beats Potsdam 7 of 10 times when Potsdam beat them by 24.  The game wasn't even that close.  If they play on a neutral court like they did, i would say Potsdam beats them 8 of 10 times.  Plus, I wouldn't exactly place that game as uptempo, both teams only took 49 shots, and the final was 67-43. Though, the SUNYAC generally plays more face paced but they game Potsdam did what Michigan State used to do with the Flintstones. Grind it out, and Fisher was stuck in the grinder.

To say that Potsdam is less talented then Fisher I think was proven to be completely false. Ryan Lynn made O'Brien look like he couldn't start on Fisher's girls team with his 7 turnovers. Connelly completely shut down Sidney to the point that Sidney didn't want to go back on the floor. The 3 headed monster of Turner, Harris, and Brooks dominated the game as well. Fisher shot 30% because of Potsdam's physicality. They didn't want to go near the basket.

Maybe what you are trying to say is that, "HARD WORK BEATS TALENT WHEN TALENT DOESN'T WORK HARD."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 13, 2006, 10:55:11 AM
Quote from: slickyquick on December 13, 2006, 10:43:08 AM
This is becoming fun. How can you say that Fisher beats Potsdam 7 of 10 times when Potsdam beat them by 24.  The game wasn't even that close.  If they play on a neutral court like they did, i would say Potsdam beats them 8 of 10 times.  Plus, I wouldn't exactly place that game as uptempo, both teams only took 49 shots, and the final was 67-43. Though, the SUNYAC generally plays more face paced but they game Potsdam did what Michigan State used to do with the Flintstones. Grind it out, and Fisher was stuck in the grinder.

To say that Potsdam is less talented then Fisher I think was proven to be completely false. Ryan Lynn made O'Brien look like he couldn't start on Fisher's girls team with his 7 turnovers. Connelly completely shut down Sidney to the point that Sidney didn't want to go back on the floor. The 3 headed monster of Turner, Harris, and Brooks dominated the game as well. Fisher shot 30% because of Potsdam's physicality. They didn't want to go near the basket.

Maybe what you are trying to say is that, "HARD WORK BEATS TALENT WHEN TALENT DOESN'T WORK HARD."

Cliches aside, I don't think you have restated your argument.  I never saw either team play so I don't know whose starters were more talented.  I think it is a stretch to say either team that had progressed that far would beat the other 7 or 8 out of 10.  Both teams were outstanding.  It would most like be 5-5 or 6-4 given the point in the season.  My previous point was about pressure not speed.  Pressure and speed are different, though they often co-exist.  If Dobbs is doing what he did when I played for him, his pressure is designed to force an opponent to milk the shot clock in the backcourt.  It is not designed for backcourt steals and quick scores.  The goal is have an opponent setting up their offense around 25 instead of around 33.  But pressure is still the great talent neutralizer.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 13, 2006, 11:01:17 AM
Quote from: slickyquick on December 13, 2006, 10:43:08 AM
This is becoming fun. How can you say that Fisher beats Potsdam 7 of 10 times when Potsdam beat them by 24.  The game wasn't even that close.  If they play on a neutral court like they did, i would say Potsdam beats them 8 of 10 times.  Plus, I wouldn't exactly place that game as uptempo, both teams only took 49 shots, and the final was 67-43. Though, the SUNYAC generally plays more face paced but they game Potsdam did what Michigan State used to do with the Flintstones. Grind it out, and Fisher was stuck in the grinder.

To say that Potsdam is less talented then Fisher I think was proven to be completely false. Ryan Lynn made O'Brien look like he couldn't start on Fisher's girls team with his 7 turnovers. Connelly completely shut down Sidney to the point that Sidney didn't want to go back on the floor. The 3 headed monster of Turner, Harris, and Brooks dominated the game as well. Fisher shot 30% because of Potsdam's physicality. They didn't want to go near the basket.

Maybe what you are trying to say is that, "HARD WORK BEATS TALENT WHEN TALENT DOESN'T WORK HARD."


Speaking of Turner, I played with him in HS. Do you have any idea if he is in med school and where he is going? I saw in the local paper that he is getting married. The announcement was in the same day as the engagement announcement for Dave Juda (Wolfman) who played at Nazareth.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on December 13, 2006, 11:01:28 AM
During that point of the season and it is all about matchups. Ask any coach that. Fisher didn't match up with Potsdam at all and it was obvious at the tip.

I actually saw Fisher play about 5 or 6 times that year and I saw Potsdam probably the same amount. I do agree with Jose on this that pressure neutralizes talent but the real talented players fight through it and play better.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on December 13, 2006, 11:02:37 AM
I'm pretty sure he is at Upstate Med, both him and Jim Connelly ending up going there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 13, 2006, 11:14:18 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on December 13, 2006, 08:55:07 AM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on December 12, 2006, 08:44:49 PM
I was referring to Corrin Jackson from EC. He was 1st team E8 3 years in a row.

I forgot about this guy.  He could really fill it up.

Word on the street is Jackson was in San Diego at one point playing in a City League with IC's Jason Wallen and Will Hill.

Hm, I don't think I ever saw him play. Elmira was the one home game I'd always skip. It was seemingly always on a random Tuesday night and I couldn't muster the energy to go watch. Sounds like he was a good player.

Re: Fisher v. Potsdam. Potsdam won that game because they came out and hit Fisher in the mouth from the opening tip and the Cards weren't prepared for it. As to who would win more times if they played ten times, who cares? Potsdam won the one game that did matter. However, if we're going to get into that type of hypothetical, I think Potsdam would have had the advantage. Some teams are just tough matchups for other teams, and that's what Potsdam was for Fisher. Their two best defenders (Connelly, Lynn) could stay with Fisher's two biggest threats. We knew that whole year that Fisher would have difficulty against a big team that could rebound well: that was Potsdam (Turner, Harris). Potsdam also had some very athletic players on that team (Barton, Clayton). You can make arguments until you're blue in the face, but Potsdam was just a tough matchup for Fisher.  The SUNYAC was a better conference than the E8 that particular year; last year, the E8 dominated. We shouldn't still be talking about that game.

Quote from: slickyquick on December 13, 2006, 11:02:37 AM
I'm pretty sure he is at Upstate Med, both him and Jim Connelly ending up going there.

My college roommate goes to Upstate Med and would be a year ahead of them. I'll ask him and get back to you later on if it is still unknown.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 13, 2006, 11:17:45 AM
I just made my 1,000th post and didn't even mention the word "Ithaca" once. What a rook move. A real faux pas.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 13, 2006, 11:23:49 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on December 13, 2006, 11:17:45 AM
I just made my 1,000th post and didn't even mention the word "Ithaca" once. What a rook move. A real faux pas.

Congrats on the 1000.  +k.  Go back and edit in a Go Bombers.  Or at least a Cortland Sucks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on December 13, 2006, 11:47:04 AM
I know Hartwick is and has not been a top team in the league, but I'd offer up Joel Blackwell (1999-2003) with 1,071 career points (No. 21 on the school's all-time scoring list), 676 career rebounds (No. 3), 60 career blocks (No. 3), 119 career steals (No. 6), and 96 career 3-pointers (No. 9).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 13, 2006, 12:00:18 PM
Good call GB15 Def enough said about the Fisher Vs Potsdam matchup.  Joel Blackwell is another very good player, however, id have to give him 2nd team at most.  my first team dating back about 7-8 years includes:

Jimmy Evans PG/SG6'5
Brandon Redmund SG 6'4
Corrin Jackson SF 6'5
Ty Shultz 6'6
Dan McSweeny this year 6'7 (Can't remember many good big men in the E8, so this spot im least comfortable with) if you want to go back further Mike Jones (RIT) would be a lock in this spot.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 13, 2006, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 13, 2006, 12:00:18 PM
Good call GB15 Def enough said about the Fisher Vs Potsdam matchup.  Joel Blackwell is another very good player, however, id have to give him 2nd team at most.  my first team dating back about 7-8 years includes:

Jimmy Evans PG/SG6'5
Brandon Redmund SG 6'4
Corrin Jackson SF 6'5
Ty Shultz 6'6
Dan McSweeny this year 6'7 (Can't remember many good big men in the E8, so this spot im least comfortable with) if you want to go back further Mike Jones (RIT) would be a lock in this spot.

A Fisher guy leaving O'Brien off the first team? He was never a numbers guy, but, in my opinion, was always the reason those Fisher teams were as good as they were. I like McSweeney but if we're going to do an all-time E8 team, one standout year (this year, presumably) probably would make him a 2nd-teamer, at best. He showed big things in spurts but, until this year, never really put it together for extended periods. I'd say anything on him is a bit premature. Other than that, can't complain too much. I'm assuming you never saw Britton play, though. He's been the best IC player since E8 play begain, with Ty in 2nd and Bellis 3rd.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 13, 2006, 01:10:48 PM
You're right add O'brien in, not sure what position Britton played.  You're also right on Mcsweeney, just cant think of a lot of standout big men in the E8.  maybe ryan shipley was solid, dillon stein isnt bad, the big man for harwick was descent that played with blackwell, and idk who else tim troy, Mark Nigli maybe.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 13, 2006, 01:42:36 PM
Forgot to mention that IC took care of Potsdam at their place over the weekend, 91-78. The win gives Mullins a 3-1 record over his old protege Sherry Dobbs. Jeff Bostic finishes up a nice week with 19 and 7. Sean Burton pours in 23 on a ridiculous 7-for-9 from 3pt range.  Sean Stahn chipped in 14 and freshman Tom Brown added 10 and 8 off the bench. Sounds like the Bombers have a nice combo at the center position with Bostic and Brown. If Brown could be half the player his sister was at IC, we'll do just fine this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 13, 2006, 03:04:52 PM
i think my chairman made my point that i ws trying to say and not able to do so---were on the same page Mr. Chairman
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 13, 2006, 03:14:29 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 13, 2006, 03:04:52 PM
i think my chairman made my point that i ws trying to say and not able to do so---were on the same page Mr. Chairman

The E8 government is a well oiled machine...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 13, 2006, 03:18:38 PM
QuoteThere was no way Murphy was starting at the 4 over Sidney.

I was putting Sidney at the 3 and McGhee at the 4. So I guess I'll re-phrase and say that Murphy could've started at the 3 on that team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 13, 2006, 03:20:48 PM
The senator approves!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on December 13, 2006, 04:03:33 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 13, 2006, 01:10:48 PM
the big man for harwick was descent that played with blackwell

I think the big man you might be referring to is Nate Cramer, but I'm not sure if he played enough over his career — as far as being an integral part of teams — to merit mention on one of the top 2 teams.

If you want to talk about lost potential — Hartwick's Dave Orr has to rank up there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 13, 2006, 04:13:13 PM
hartwick has a basketball team?   :P
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 13, 2006, 04:49:16 PM
Agreed with both points rjcarter.  Dave orr could have been very good, after his injury tho, i think it was too hard.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 13, 2006, 04:50:48 PM
RJ, you seem to know your 'Wick hoops. What happened to that kid Greg Bettencourt that played there two seasons ago? He was their best player and one of the top freshmen in the conference. I'd have to think that if he stayed he and Cocozziello would have formed a nice 1-2 punch for the Hawks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 13, 2006, 09:08:32 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on December 13, 2006, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 13, 2006, 12:00:18 PM
Good call GB15 Def enough said about the Fisher Vs Potsdam matchup.  Joel Blackwell is another very good player, however, id have to give him 2nd team at most.  my first team dating back about 7-8 years includes:

Jimmy Evans PG/SG6'5
Brandon Redmund SG 6'4
Corrin Jackson SF 6'5
Ty Shultz 6'6
Dan McSweeny this year 6'7 (Can't remember many good big men in the E8, so this spot im least comfortable with) if you want to go back further Mike Jones (RIT) would be a lock in this spot.

A Fisher guy leaving O'Brien off the first team? He was never a numbers guy, but, in my opinion, was always the reason those Fisher teams were as good as they were. I like McSweeney but if we're going to do an all-time E8 team, one standout year (this year, presumably) probably would make him a 2nd-teamer, at best. He showed big things in spurts but, until this year, never really put it together for extended periods. I'd say anything on him is a bit premature. Other than that, can't complain too much. I'm assuming you never saw Britton play, though. He's been the best IC player since E8 play begain, with Ty in 2nd and Bellis 3rd.

I agree with most of the list...but I definatly agree that Sean Obrien has to be on the list for first team...and I also remember two guys for AU that were real good a whle ago. Don't know there name but I think it was a real athletic guard...and a real tall center (almost 7 ft)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 13, 2006, 09:12:20 PM
How about a Jeff Sydney or a Fran Snyder for a first team as well...both were real good players...My first team is getting a little large...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 13, 2006, 09:24:15 PM
The big guy from AU was Kareen McKinnon. AU was loaded for a couple years when they had him, Docteur, Downing, Stortini. They probably would have been even better but their PG (Will Smith I believe) missed the entire year with an injury so Downing got pushed to playing the 1 instead of the 2.

They also had a pretty good bench those years

Probably the best example of how Murphy wasted a ton of talent down in the Southern Tier.

I think if you wanted to put a team together based on position Ty Schultz played most of his time at the 5 from what I remember so I would go with:

Redmond
Downing
O'Brien
Jackson
Schultz

I can't really remember much about Britton but maybe he deserves to be up there as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 13, 2006, 09:29:48 PM
Looks like a pretty solid list to me...I am a little suprised to not see more Fisher players on the list...considering how dominate they have been over the past few years. So many good players (Mark Niggli, Jeff Sydney, Aaron Berwanger, Nick Bennet and the like)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 13, 2006, 10:33:51 PM
Any Fisher player off the Starting five of past teams chris sullivan, RJ, mark nigli, bennett, sidney, o'brien).  However, Fran snyder belongs no wheres near that list.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 13, 2006, 11:21:46 PM
Greg Betancourt, a native of North Jersey, was listed on last year's Ramapo roster but apparently never appeared in a game nor is he on this year's team.

Oh, and Mr. Chairman Viper, Devean George played for Augsburg (Minneapolis MN).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 14, 2006, 08:06:23 AM
wow this thread is light lately...

Any good games coming up in the E8?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 14, 2006, 08:40:50 AM
QuoteAny Fisher player off the Starting five of past teams chris sullivan, RJ, mark nigli, bennett, sidney, o'brien).  However, Fran snyder belongs no wheres near that list.

Apparently if you step of the floor as a starter for Fisher over the last 3-4 years you should be in the discussion for the All-E8 team but if you posted solid numbers throughout your career like Fran Snyder did you don't deserve any mention. Snyder was Rookie of the year is Freshman year and also was named 2nd team E8 his Jr. year and 1st. Team E8 his Sr. year.

Bennett, Niggli and Fiorelli were never on the 1st team and Berwanger never made it past honorable mention.

Get off your high horse FisherDynasty.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 14, 2006, 08:46:15 AM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on December 14, 2006, 08:40:50 AM
QuoteAny Fisher player off the Starting five of past teams chris sullivan, RJ, mark nigli, bennett, sidney, o'brien).  However, Fran snyder belongs no wheres near that list.

Apparently if you step of the floor as a starter for Fisher over the last 3-4 years you should be in the discussion for the All-E8 team but if you posted solid numbers throughout your career like Fran Snyder did you don't deserve any mention. Snyder was Rookie of the year is Freshman year and also was named 2nd team E8 his Jr. year and 1st. Team E8 his Sr. year.

Bennett, Niggli and Fiorelli were never on the 1st team and Berwanger never made it past honorable mention.

Get off your high horse FisherDynasty.

Snyder was a solid player.  Definitely deserves consideration.  He was a bit undersized but strong as an ox and mean as hell too.  Good rebounder.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 14, 2006, 08:58:39 AM
ok- any good games to watch out for?
I know the break is coming up---still....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 14, 2006, 09:15:52 AM
Not on a high horse at all, just said they're worth mentioning.  Also, its tough to have a whole starting 5 to be on the 1st team, there isnt enough stats to go around.  If any of the players were on another team, they would have been avg. 15 a game instead of a spread out 10 pts with a different high scorer night in and night out. 

And Fran snyder definatly was not mean, he had a solid fresh year and thats about it.  He would have played 8 minutes a game for Fisher. 

Anyways, enough arguing, are there anymore games left before break for E8 teams?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 14, 2006, 09:37:08 AM
I agree Snyder doesn't warrant 1st team consideration. That said, he would have had he not had issues with his knees. Physically, during his junior and senior years,  he was no more than 80% the player he was during his freshman season. He would have been a great one if he didn't have knee issues.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on December 14, 2006, 10:03:27 AM
I'm wasn't saying that Snyder should be talked about in the 1st team discussion, my point was that if you're going to say that players like Fiorelli, Niggli, Bennett, Berwanger, etc. warrant discussion then you can't say players like Snyder should be excluded.

In the end I don't think any of them should be considered, at least for the 1st team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 14, 2006, 11:12:02 AM
Injuries will kill ya, especially when it has to do with the legs.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on December 14, 2006, 11:32:50 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on December 13, 2006, 04:50:48 PM
RJ, you seem to know your 'Wick hoops. What happened to that kid Greg Bettencourt that played there two seasons ago? He was their best player and one of the top freshmen in the conference. I'd have to think that if he stayed he and Cocozziello would have formed a nice 1-2 punch for the Hawks.

Betancourt was one of Hartwick's best players when he was there, but that isn't really saying much is it. I think they won only 2 games his freshman year.

I'm not sure exactly why he left the school, but I got the impression he wasn't happy with what his diminished role would be.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on December 14, 2006, 11:46:03 AM
RIT visits Cortland Friday night. Good middle of the road test for both. And by middle of the road we mean teams that appear at this writing to be pretty mediocre
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 14, 2006, 11:57:00 AM
finally- thank you!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 14, 2006, 01:21:06 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 14, 2006, 11:57:00 AM
finally- thank you!!

Not a lot going on this time of year, FA91. Players have finals, etc. Usually heats up the week after New Year's.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 14, 2006, 01:42:33 PM
RIT also beat York College (not the good one from PA but the pretty bad one from NYC) at home the other day, I think Barrett Zeinfeld had 20 points.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 14, 2006, 01:59:33 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 14, 2006, 01:42:33 PM
RIT also beat York College (not the good one from PA but the pretty bad one from NYC) at home the other day, I think Barrett Zeinfeld had 20 points.

Didn't York(NY) start the year like gangbusters?  I think they got some love in the poll and some D3Hoops.com front page love before settling back to earth.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 14, 2006, 02:23:21 PM
No one is talking about RIT on the board.  I wouldn't be surprised if they finish 3rd in the league this year.  They return there 2 best players in zeinfeld and bacon, and have a bunch of other tough little guards who are good spot up shooters.  They are flying under the radar right now, but like in past years, they will be up there in the top 4 mark my words.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 14, 2006, 02:26:12 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 14, 2006, 02:23:21 PM
No one is talking about RIT on the board.  I wouldn't be surprised if they finish 3rd in the league this year.  They return there 2 best players in zeinfeld and bacon, and have a bunch of other tough little guards who are good spot up shooters.  They are flying under the radar right now, but like in past years, they will be up there in the top 4 mark my words.

Not to mention they have one of the best coaches in the league/region/nation.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 14, 2006, 02:43:34 PM
I wouldnt go that far jose,  I have you on a huge reach right there.  I love McVein but lets be serious now, i hope u were being sarcastic.  Just to name a few that are better Coach Near, Kornacker, goodemote, Dobbs....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 14, 2006, 02:55:50 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 14, 2006, 02:43:34 PM
I wouldnt go that far jose,  I have you on a huge reach right there.  I love McVein but lets be serious now, i hope u were being sarcastic.  Just to name a few that are better Coach Near, Kornacker, goodemote, Dobbs....

I merely said "one of..."  I think McVein does more with less than nearly any other coach in the area.  Kornaker has a lot of talent, but he gets credit for using that talent wisely.  Dobbs I am partial to, having played for him, but I think he will prove to be a very good coach as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 14, 2006, 03:02:06 PM
Agreed with Kornacker, his best coaching strength in my opinion, is his ability to recruit.  However, I used to think that about mcvein, until the year when they had Goff, Murphy, Sneider, 2-3 descent PG's, Jesse Foote and Tim Bacon.  I know they had a good year besides losing to Fisher but to lose all 4 times? idk to be one of the best coaches I think he could have found a way to win one of them.  Im not basing his coaching on that one year but every year besides last year, I always though they had the most talent besides Fisher and Naz.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 14, 2006, 05:44:41 PM
league predictions

Utica (Of course!)
SJF
Hartwick
Ithaca
Nazareth
RIT
Alfred
Elmira


That's it folks!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 14, 2006, 06:39:34 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on December 14, 2006, 05:44:41 PM
league predictions

Utica (Of course!)
SJF
Hartwick
Ithaca
Nazareth
RIT
Alfred
Elmira


That's it folks!!!!!!

Ugh. It was so peaceful in here, too.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 14, 2006, 06:51:37 PM
i hear crickets
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 14, 2006, 10:21:52 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on December 14, 2006, 01:59:33 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 14, 2006, 01:42:33 PM
RIT also beat York College (not the good one from PA but the pretty bad one from NYC) at home the other day, I think Barrett Zeinfeld had 20 points.

Didn't York(NY) start the year like gangbusters?  I think they got some love in the poll and some D3Hoops.com front page love before settling back to earth.

Actually they did, beat Christopher Newport and William Paterson, both top-level eastern d3 squads but then lost 3 straight, beat some of their lesser CUNYAC competition then made the trip up to RIT and lost, leaving York at 6-4, 2-0 in their league.  That conference hasn't been good for a while but their champ always manages to put up a good fight in the NCAA Tournament.  I think NYC Tech actually won a game when they had a stud big man (Shacun Malave was his name IIRC).  York has been a mid-pack CUNY team for a while but this could be their breakout year. 

So, upon further review, good win for RIT over a good team.  I amend my earlier thoughts.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 15, 2006, 09:00:06 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on December 14, 2006, 02:55:50 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 14, 2006, 02:43:34 PM
I wouldnt go that far jose,  I have you on a huge reach right there.  I love McVein but lets be serious now, i hope u were being sarcastic.  Just to name a few that are better Coach Near, Kornacker, goodemote, Dobbs....

I merely said "one of..."  I think McVein does more with less than nearly any other coach in the area.  Kornaker has a lot of talent, but he gets credit for using that talent wisely.  Dobbs I am partial to, having played for him, but I think he will prove to be a very good coach as well.

JOSE:
Given your partiality to Dobbs and assuming you had a positive experience playing for him, aside from ability to recruit (partly because AUPepBand believes that success breeds success...if it's evident that you're doing a good job, there will always be those who'd like to jump on the bandwagon) what do you see as the top five ingredients of a good basketball coach?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 15, 2006, 09:27:58 AM
clearconciet, are you really that dumb or do you write ignorant messages just to sturr up the posting board?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: d3lifer on December 15, 2006, 10:06:34 AM
Clearconceit-

As much as I would like to see that much shake up the standings this year for the Empire 8 conference with regards to the middle of the pack it is my belief that a team earn the right to be placed in the top 4 ie...Hartwick. Do they have promise...YES! Are they on the right track...YES! But until you can prove that you are going to consistently win league games you still have to consider them to be a team that is going to be fighting there way through again this year. They have some ability and a good core but still very inexperienced when it comes to playing big games.

Predictions:
1. SJF
2. Utica
3. Naz
4. Ithaca
5. RIT
6. Hartwick
7. Alfred
8. Elmira
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: d3lifer on December 15, 2006, 10:08:17 AM
Oh one more thing...I saw conversation about Betancourt from Hartwick it is my belief he is still at the school, but not playing. Sorry for the delayed posts but wanted to comment on a previous conversation.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 15, 2006, 11:45:32 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on December 15, 2006, 09:00:06 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on December 14, 2006, 02:55:50 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 14, 2006, 02:43:34 PM
I wouldnt go that far jose,  I have you on a huge reach right there.  I love McVein but lets be serious now, i hope u were being sarcastic.  Just to name a few that are better Coach Near, Kornacker, goodemote, Dobbs....

I merely said "one of..."  I think McVein does more with less than nearly any other coach in the area.  Kornaker has a lot of talent, but he gets credit for using that talent wisely.  Dobbs I am partial to, having played for him, but I think he will prove to be a very good coach as well.

JOSE:
Given your partiality to Dobbs and assuming you had a positive experience playing for him, aside from ability to recruit (partly because AUPepBand believes that success breeds success...if it's evident that you're doing a good job, there will always be those who'd like to jump on the bandwagon) what do you see as the top five ingredients of a good basketball coach?


A question interesting enough to draw me out of my research-related hole...

I definitely think the ability to recruit is the #1 skill.  It has always been my belief that no coach, in any sport, is good unless he or she has good players.  I think it is especially true in basketball where a few talented guys can make a good team great.  I love Mike D'Antoni and coached a system similar to his in high school the last three years.  But look at what his system produced the season before Nash and the seasons with Nash.

But since you asked about things aside from recruiting here goes:

1. Ability to Motivate: This may seem odd but basketball is a physically demanding sport and the college season can be grueling and long.  I think the team that wins is not always the most talented or have the best gameplan, many times it is just the team that wants to be in the gym that night.  For big games, gameday motivation isn't a problem but, to get to the big games you have win some Tuesday nighters, on the road, in front of no one, against a team you are way better than.  This is when the motivator makes his team better.

2. Game Management: The respect coaches get from their players is based mostly around their ability to manage a game.  Basketball is definitely a game of rhythm and it is trickier than you think to manage subs, offenses, timeouts, in bounds, etc to make sure your guys get into, and stay in, a rhythm while preventing the other guys from getting into, or staying in, a rhythm.

3.  Tactics/Strategy/Gameplan/Scheme:  I know this seems low but I am definitely a believer in the theory of Red Holzman.  Holzman used to always say that basketball is a simple game (it is) and all the good plays have been thought of (they have).  I mean, look at Jerry Sloan, among the most brilliant half court offensive minds in the NBA.  Why?  He ran the pick and roll and kept the ball in the hands of his two best players.  Coaches need to have some idea what they are doing in this area but, generally, it isn't football. 

4.  Babysitting:  You have to know your players and keep them out of trouble.  (including academic trouble).  It is a sad comment on the state of the high school and college game but coaches are as much camp counselors as they are chess players.  A coach's greatest contribution to his team's success can be making sure the best players don't get suspended/kicked off/or quit

5.  Respect:  You have to earn the respect of your players because basketball is a game that is easy to coach from the floor.  I didn't respect the JV coach I played for my sophomore year at IC and would often change whatever he said in the huddle when the team took the floor.  You can't really do that in football.  If a WR doesn't like the play call he can't get the guys to change the play that often.  In basketball the game is so improvisational you can just make things change.  Coaches need to be respected by their players to be able to run the asylum.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 16, 2006, 12:22:37 AM
The E8 continues to pile on Cortland (sucks) as RIT upends the host Red Dragons, 63-62. Colin Roy hits a 13-foot jumper with 5 seconds left to win it for the Tigers. Dave Maggiacomo gave Cortland (sucks) the lead on a 3-pointer with 16 ticks left. RIT gets 15 from Barret Zeinfeld (on 5-18 shooting) while JC transfer Kenny Gethers goes for 13 and 7. Another solid game for RIT pivot Tim Bacon as he adds 11 and 7.

The Red Dragons were led by Dave Maggiacomo's 16 points. Dave Jutton scored 10 and reserve Carson Niehoff scores 11 for C-State. Cortland led for 90% of this game but RIT had more at the end. It's looking like it's going to be a three horse race between RIT, Ithaca and Naz for the last two spots in the E8 tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on December 16, 2006, 12:31:44 AM
IC gets nipped at home in OT by a solid Kean squad, 74-73. Dom Scanlon hits a 3-pointer with under a one second in regulation to send it to the extra session. Scanlon's trey comes after Kean (8-1) misses two straight front ends of one-and-one's. A missed opportunity then in OT for IC. The Bombers led by 3 in the extra frame with under 20 seconds. Ithaca had the ball up one and turns the ball over giving Kean a chance. Jeff Bostic called for a foul with one second left on what sounded like a questionable whistle; Bryan Keller sinks them both and that's the ballgame.

Ithaca was led again by stud soph Jeff Bostic (17 and 15) as the Bombers almost play through Sean Burton's worst game in his young career (2-17 from the field, including 0-9 from distance) against a good team. Brian Joe and Dom Scanlon both put in 12 points for IC.

Ithaca's next game will in 2007 when they head over to the East Hill to take on Cornell, January 5th.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on December 16, 2006, 01:28:18 AM
Guys take it easy.  All I am doing is intelligently guessing just as you are.

It is my opinion they will finish 3rd.  Gave Hamilton a tough game (didn't see it as I was watching our boys romp), played Elms tough and beat Ostate (Maybe OState isn't good, but they are 3-0 in the SUNY's)
Just an opinion - besides it gets so boring in here.  I mean everyone just says the same stuff. 

I'm a Jimmy The Greek guy!  Bold predictions.  Only time will tell.

Where is MadHawk to back me up????
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: d3lifer on December 16, 2006, 01:28:16 PM
Clear-

Listen, it would be nice to have a new get back into the mix, a good friend of mine played hoops there and I would like nothing more to see them climb out of the cellar, but rebuilding a program takes time and Paul Culpo is doing exactly the right things. He is a no nonsense guy who probably has lost some very talented players over the last few years because when you are rebuilding a program the most important thing is to have everyone on the same page going in the same direction. You can't allow people to being pulling in different directions. But this takes time and they now do have a solid core. They have always played tough at home, but consistently winning on the road in any league is a step that has to be achieved first in order to get into the mix.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 18, 2006, 04:28:42 PM
Hey, new to the basketball boards but I had an idea............

How about the football captains (or seniors if they arent announced) tell the whole Ithaca football team to go to a home basketball game and just act like maniacs.  And I dont mean drunk and acting like jackasses, but I mean like get 100 guys in there, and just go nuts like the cameron crazies.  It would be slow at first but you know that chicks will soon follow, and then other students might join in the fray too.

I think I was only at a few games when I went there and there were seriously probably not even 25% of the fans that my high school had.

i just think it would be cool to get 100 passionate fans at an IC game in a small gym. 

I think its time to start a tradition....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 19, 2006, 11:38:16 AM
Chairman Jose:

+K and thanks for the thorough and well-thought out response to my "five ingredients" question. With "recruiting" an absolute must, you cited the following to be essential for a good basketball coach:

1.Ability to Motivate
2.Game Management
3.Tactics/Strategy/Game plan/Scheme
4.Babysitting
5.Respect

Now based on these ingredients, how would E8 hoop posters rate their respective institution's head coach? Use the typical classroom scale (A,B,C,D,F)



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 19, 2006, 11:40:14 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on December 18, 2006, 04:28:42 PM
Hey, new to the basketball boards but I had an idea............

How about the football captains (or seniors if they arent announced) tell the whole Ithaca football team to go to a home basketball game and just act like maniacs.  And I dont mean drunk and acting like jackasses, but I mean like get 100 guys in there, and just go nuts like the cameron crazies.  It would be slow at first but you know that chicks will soon follow, and then other students might join in the fray too.

I think I was only at a few games when I went there and there were seriously probably not even 25% of the fans that my high school had.

i just think it would be cool to get 100 passionate fans at an IC game in a small gym. 

I think its time to start a tradition....

'Tis true that attendance at D3 basketball games in the E8 is less than what it could and should be. AUPepBand believes football players already are the majority of the spectators at AU basketball games, but then, AUPepBand hasn't attended any games yet this season.    :-[

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: d3lifer on December 19, 2006, 03:54:06 PM
Things have changed so much over the years in terms of attendance for Division III basketball games and my feeling is that Television has changed everything. It used to be that when you wanted to watch a college basketball game on a regular basis you would just go to the local college or for some people maybe they had multiple options. But now all you have to do is turn on the TV and you have your pick of multiple big-time Division I games. So with that Division III gets thrown by the wayside and people lose sight of the fact that it is quality basketball. That definitely has a factor on this, it also affects students as well because you have so many options to entertain yourself in a dorm room, tv, video games, movies, and internet. You can watch Duke play North Carolina, chat on AOL while typing a paper and eating dinner all within your dorm room. These things create highly apathetic student bodies on small college campuses, they may not know how a good one of there teams may be because they never made it to a game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 19, 2006, 10:08:19 PM
I agree that TV has a big impact on why attendance is not as high as it should be...but also I tend to think that it is more the culture of where you are going to school...Students can make or break your attendance at any school...When I went to Fisher the first year it was more about drinking and which party to go to on a friday night...I think the athletic department did a good job while I was at Fisher of making Basketball what you did on a Friday night (Cardinal Crazies, free t-shirts, and more active promotion of the basketball team). After they started to open the door to Students attending the game, the crowds on Saturday got a lot bigger as well...

The quality of basketball is apparent in the E8, it is just a matter of schools being active in bringing fans in...Fisher always had crowdes when I was there. they do have a small gym, but it was always full.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 19, 2006, 11:33:59 PM
Naz broke Pitt-Bradford's seven game winning streak by waxing the Panthers 81-61 tonight at Kidera Gym.  Golden Flyers now 3-2 on the year.

Tyler Smith had 22 off the bench to lead all scorers and how bout this Corey McAdam kid, 19 pts, 10 boards, 5 assists, 3 steals in 27 reserve minutes.  McAdam 8 for 9 shooting and Smith 8 for 12.

I wish Elmira had a completely insane MadHawk-esque fan so at least EC's being constantly splattered all over the place would be funny.  Actually, I just wish Elmira had a fan.  Soaring Iggles fall by 15 at home to Ferrum tonight.  Palen Andreozzi with 14 in defeat.  EC turns it over 21 times and shoots 36.2%.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 20, 2006, 10:20:26 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on December 19, 2006, 10:08:19 PM
The quality of basketball is apparent in the E8, it is just a matter of schools being active in bringing fans in...Fisher always had crowdes when I was there. they do have a small gym, but it was always full.

Back when Ron Frederes coached the AU men's basketball team, the Saxons drew nice crowds, particularly around 1980-82 with Mike Wing, Brian Andrews and Co. had some great seasons including an NCAA run. McLane Center seats 2500 and back then, AU was probably drawing 1200 regularly and perhaps over 1500 for big games. AU fans pulled out newspapers and appeared to be reading them when the opposing team was introduced.

Now they don't bother pulling out the bleachers on one side of the gym...less capacity makes the crowd appear to be larger. AU's Saxon Sillies, comprised primarily of football players and AUKaz00, certainly livened games up at McLane but they all graduated and apparently failed to pass on the tradition of hilariously distracting the opposition.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: d3lifer on December 20, 2006, 10:42:26 PM
In response....continuous success and players creating visibility for themselves on campus creates a vibe for the rest of the student body. St. John Fisher has done a nice job of continuing their success, and has made it one of the toughest places to play in the Northeast. It has been a trend as well that new gymnasiums are built to be more quaint which creates a great home court advantage when playing at home. If I were Fisher I would never replace the facility they have. Maybe make improvements but great home court for sure. Union College's new facility is also brought down the capacity getting away from the old fieldhouse that seemed to be just as cold inside as it was out during the middle of January. The McClane Center is a great facility but now a days there is just no need to have a huge capacity. You are better off having something that seats 1000 because it creates a much better atmosphere when full.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on December 21, 2006, 02:30:14 AM
CazBombers, speaking of which, where is MadHawk fan? Not that I miss him, just curious.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 21, 2006, 10:23:21 AM
Quote from: d3hooperforlife on December 20, 2006, 10:42:26 PM
In response....continuous success and players creating visibility for themselves on campus creates a vibe for the rest of the student body. St. John Fisher has done a nice job of continuing their success, and has made it one of the toughest places to play in the Northeast. It has been a trend as well that new gymnasiums are built to be more quaint which creates a great home court advantage when playing at home. If I were Fisher I would never replace the facility they have. Maybe make improvements but great home court for sure. Union College's new facility is also brought down the capacity getting away from the old fieldhouse that seemed to be just as cold inside as it was out during the middle of January. The McClane Center is a great facility but now a days there is just no need to have a huge capacity. You are better off having something that seats 1000 because it creates a much better atmosphere when full.

Would agree that a smaller capacity gym that is full creates a much more electric atmosphere than a large capacity gym that's half empty....even with same numbers in attendance. AU really needs to address its basketball program if it wants to become competitive in the E8. Working on campus, while AUPepBand knows a number of players, there seems to be little done to promote the team. Fact that the head coach and his assistant are pretty reclusive doesn't help the program.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on December 21, 2006, 10:37:40 AM
I agree that when the varsity gym is full it is a great place to A) watch a basketball game B) a very very hard place to come in and win....  You haven't been to a d3 basketball game if you haven't seen a fisher-naz game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 21, 2006, 11:15:48 AM
In the end D3 hoops aren't any different from sports at most levels.  If you win, fans will pack the building (regardless of its size) because everyone loves a winner.  The arenas/stadiums that are packed for bad teams are the exception, not the rule.  Basketball can't really be compared with football either because the situations are different.

1) You play way more often so people feel like "if I miss this one, there is another one right around the corner."

2) You play on weeknights.

3) The more games makes each one less of an "event."

Varsity Gym at Fisher is incredible.  Loved playing there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on December 21, 2006, 11:23:54 AM
Anybody know why McAdam didn't start? He has been playing around 40 mins again before this game.  As he should...he is a great player. Saw him a couple times in HS and can't wait to see a Naz game!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on December 21, 2006, 04:51:26 PM
See at fisher you always get a decent crowd for all games...but you have to be there an a hour or two early for the girls game to get in the gym for fisher-naz....I now that there have been outcries from some more of the hard core fisher crazies to get everyone to come to all of the games not just fisher naz never worked
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: d3lifer on December 22, 2006, 08:04:18 PM
Well now that for the most part the non-conference season has been completed, does anybody have a feelings on changes in the standings or is the non-conference schedule not as good a marker than it could be?

It seems as though the Empire 8 is fairly strong in comparison to the two other leagues within the New York State.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on December 24, 2006, 02:23:50 AM
what i gotta say after non-conference play...

fisher- won their 2 biggest games (UR, geneseo) with a little help from the officials it looks like. anyone at the UR game would tell you they got handed that one, UR not only got screwed by the refs but also at the line, they shot 12-28from the line i think it was...and then according to this board at the geneseo game there was a brutal call that decided the game. that's unfortunate...fisher lost a lot, not a very intimidating team anymore after the loss of their starting 1, 2 and 3 (obrien, bennett, mcgee) and their new guards are nothing. baltz isnt any good, these freshmen need some serioussss growing to do before theyll be effective. but mcsweeney is legit, and beigel a nice sidekick when he isnt a dumb meathead getting in foul trouble and sticks to doing his job (boards and being assertive on offense)..i lke smalt off the bench too...what they got going for them is theyre deep thanks to rob kornaker keeping a roster fit for a football team...

elmira- lost their big man, which means big loss for them...with a bunch of scrappy, ok guards...sitting on a 1-8 record now. got punched by Cortland and Clarkson, and lost to pitt-bradford...another tough season for the soaring eagles...


hartwick-sitting on 7-2 now with wins over teams i dont really know well..Jan's a really solid player with a decent supporting cast. don't know too much about these guys so won't say much...should be interesting to see how jan can carry them...

ithaca-big losses with bellis and others gone...burton is a solid scoring pg should be interesting to see how many good looks he gets this year w/o bellis on the floor...4-4 now with losses to UR, wins vs Cortland, Morrisville and Hobart...wonder if bostic can keep up the good play and compete with the big guys of fisher, naz, utica...

utica- 6-1 with lone loss @ hamilton...ray bryants a grown ass man bottom line...herring is damn good and looks like lightall is playing well too...possibly another trip to the NCAAs for utica this season....theyre gonna be real tough plus Goodemote can coach...

rit- you never know with these guys...6-2 now with a big game coming up soon vs UR...zeinfeld's already put up over 70 three pointers...if these guys are hitting theyll win, if theyre not, theyll lose...bacons a solid solid big man, and bobby mcvean knows how to coach...this UR game will show how good these guys actually are..we'll see about them...

naz-  sitting on 4-2...can they put it together this season? whats the deal with ryan mcadam hasnt played in a game yet...would form a killer combo him and his bro on the floor together. team struggled last year without a pg, so corey mcadams helping them a ton but can he handle the pressure as a freshman with big minutes...big men can play with any other big guy in the league...shouldve beaten UR but they (UR) decided to hit every free throw that game unlike vs fisher..could potentially win the league but depends on what's up with ryan mcadams and on canori...should be interesting...

alfred- 2-6 now got smoked by a solid NYU team and losses to cortland and geneseo...dillon stein is good, so we'll see if he takes control on his final year in the league...loss of quentin bryant is huge, most athletic guy in the league last 2 seasons...dont know about this squad, heading down to randolph-macon after x-mas so that might be a tough one for them...theyll be good for perhaps a couple surprising conference wins...


conference champs? it's up in the air but if i were a betting man id put my money on utica, they're gonna be tough...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 24, 2006, 02:38:13 PM
I agree with most of that...

I think that Fisher's guards will get better and better, and Fisher always has as much talent as anyone in the league.
Utica does look like a tough team to beat. The battle will be between Fisher and Utica for the E8 championship and the automatic bid...It may very well come down to coaching this year, and who can find a way to avoid upsets and bad losses. Utica's coach is obviously a good one, but UC usually finds a way to lose a game or two in Rochester...plus I will take Kornaker against any coach in the league.

I know it is a rebuilding year, and Fisher did lose a lot from last year, but I still like their chances for another (5th straight) empire 8 championship.

I do have a bias however...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on December 24, 2006, 09:46:34 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on December 24, 2006, 02:38:13 PM
I will take Kornaker against any coach in the league.

Of course, everyone knows he's an Alfred grad, right?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 25, 2006, 02:46:20 AM
Good analysis about the E8 teams so far this year.  However, Fisher guards, young and weaker then previous years but will get better as the season goes on.  Utica is a very tough team.  However, U guys can say what you want, but the E8 is Fisher league until someone takes it from them i dont care how good everyone thinks Utica is this year.  Truthfully, knowing most of the players on the team, they arnt all that good compared to the good teams in the rest of the country.  If they are better then Fisher  this year, then it is going to be a slight difference, therefore, Fisher still owns the leagues until someone takes it from them whether it be Utica, RIT, Naz, or Ithaca.  If you guys think your schools deserve the title or should get the respect then beat Fisher plane and simple.  Enough said.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 26, 2006, 07:51:00 AM
I was going to post the nice article on UC's coach that was in the Utica OD this am- but they havent updated the web since Dec 22..
Keep an eye out for it UC guys- good atricle.....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 26, 2006, 06:21:13 PM
I see most of the E8 teams have found a way to beat up on Cortland State, and that Fisher is playing them on Friday I was wondering if anyone on here has seen Cortland/has a scouting report.

I live in Cortland but have not had a chance to see them play this year. I saw they were ahead of Utica for a while, but lost.

It also seems about time that we start the annual discussion of who is the best league in upstate. I think last year did a lot for the E8 with 2 teams in the sweet 16.
Hamilton and St lawrence seem to be bringing up the LL, and Suny and the E8 always seem to argue who is stronger?

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on December 26, 2006, 08:22:54 PM
sjfcards,
This Cortland outfit gives coach TSpan the shakes. Still trying to figure out the parts. Is 3-5 and could be 6-2. Virtually 10 players have seen some regular duty. Will have played every E8 team except Hartwick by the time Dragons meet Fisher. Downed Naz in scrim, took Elmira and Alfred big, led UC early in second half, fell to RIT by 1 after leading most of way and lost to IC in a game neither played well and either could have won. Should have beaten Utica Tech.
CState has shown lack of on-court leadership, and it's been very evident in stretch play. Very streaky. Relies on outside scoring of D. Maggicomo (17ppg), D. Jutton, swing play of 6-5 M. Jankiewicz,  R. Headley (11ppg) and C. Niehoff. Reliable D. Fish at the point isn't offensive factor. Steadiest backcourt hand has been pepperpot J. Miolan, who makes things happen in bench role. Inside crew's inexperience a liability thus far. Frosh 6-6 M. Lewis is coming, 6-8 J. Sargent still somewhat of a project. Look for 6-6 frosh P. Oliver to finally appear.
Don't think CSt. in Fisher's class, but could cause trouble with threes, and should be troublesome to SUNYAC contenders ...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on December 26, 2006, 10:22:03 PM
Quote from: jdex on December 26, 2006, 08:22:54 PM
sjfcards,
This Cortland outfit gives coach TSpan the shakes. Still trying to figure out the parts. Is 3-5 and could be 6-2. Virtually 10 players have seen some regular duty. Will have played every E8 team except Hartwick by the time Dragons meet Fisher. Downed Naz in scrim, took Elmira and Alfred big, led UC early in second half, fell to RIT by 1 after leading most of way and lost to IC in a game neither played well and either could have won. Should have beaten Utica Tech.
CState has shown lack of on-court leadership, and it's been very evident in stretch play. Very streaky. Relies on outside scoring of D. Maggicomo (17ppg), D. Jutton, swing play of 6-5 M. Jankiewicz,  R. Headley (11ppg) and C. Niehoff. Reliable D. Fish at the point isn't offensive factor. Steadiest backcourt hand has been pepperpot J. Miolan, who makes things happen in bench role. Inside crew's inexperience a liability thus far. Frosh 6-6 M. Lewis is coming, 6-8 J. Sargent still somewhat of a project. Look for 6-6 frosh P. Oliver to finally appear.
Don't think CSt. in Fisher's class, but could cause trouble with threes, and should be troublesome to SUNYAC contenders ...


Many thanks...

I am a little worried about the game against C-state. Fisher is a young team comming off a long layoff...It seems like it could be an upset special. Hopefully Fisher can stay away from a drop off from the last few games...although they seem like a long time ago now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reelentless on December 26, 2006, 11:44:55 PM

Quotefisheralum91 - I was going to post the nice article on UC's coach that was in the Utica OD this am- but they havent updated the web since Dec 22..
Keep an eye out for it UC guys- good atricle.....

Coach Goodemote Article is up  .  .  .

http://www.uticaod.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061226/SPORTS/612260318/1030/SPORTS01 (http://www.uticaod.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061226/SPORTS/612260318/1030/SPORTS01)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on December 27, 2006, 09:06:25 PM
goodie is the best recruiting coach in the conference, easily....the downfall though is trying to get kids to go to college in Utica..i know there are plenty of fine players in the conference who wouldve gone to utica because of him, but didnt bc of how crappy the area of utica is..
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on December 27, 2006, 10:22:44 PM
are you kidding me.... Kornaker is all about the recruiting....I mean you either have to be a good coach  or good at recruiting and Kornaker is by far the best because look at how dominating Fisher has been
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 28, 2006, 07:43:32 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on December 27, 2006, 10:22:44 PM
are you kidding me.... Kornaker is all about the recruiting....I mean you either have to be a good coach  or good at recruiting and Kornaker is by far the best because look at how dominating Fisher has been

I gotta disagree Superman.  Kornaker does get the best players but look at the players Goodemote has convinced to come to UC, a place no one wanted to go to before.  They have to pay tuition similar to the other E8 schools but, at least in the past, get less of the classic college environment as UC used to be a commuter school (right?).  I think his turnaround of that program is pretty impressive.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on December 28, 2006, 07:57:12 AM
It's also much easier to get good players to come to a program that has been dominate like fisher.  It is harder to sell a basketball program that has been struggling like UC did in the past.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on December 28, 2006, 08:47:01 AM
Plus, Rochester vs. Utica. That's not too hard of a choice when looking at the cities.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 28, 2006, 01:49:10 PM
Both Kornacker and Goodemote are very good at recruiting.  Goodemote has an advantage of attracting and gettin in players that Fisher cannot.  However, Kornacker being with a rochester area school has alot more to offer then that of Utica.  Therefore, Id have to say the better recruiting would have to go to Goodemote.  Both coaches are very similar tho.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 28, 2006, 03:04:45 PM
Mr. Chair-
You are a little off on UC as a commuter school.
The campus has grown a lot in the past ten years and the admin has put priority on campus housing and sports programs.  Ex- Hockey Football and BBall.
New majors, new Res Halls and athletic facilities have come a long way!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on December 28, 2006, 05:54:57 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 28, 2006, 03:04:45 PM
Mr. Chair-
You are a little off on UC as a commuter school.
The campus has grown a lot in the past ten years and the admin has put priority on campus housing and sports programs.  Ex- Hockey Football and BBall.
New majors, new Res Halls and athletic facilities have come a long way!


No doubt the school has changed.  But I wonder how long it takes a place to shake the Commuter School reputation.  Either way, Goodemote has done a nice job getting players there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on December 29, 2006, 08:04:13 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 28, 2006, 01:49:10 PM
Goodemote has an advantage of attracting and gettin in players that Fisher cannot.

What do you mean? I don't think Kornaker has any trouble getting kids he wants admitted/packaged at Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: d3lifer on December 29, 2006, 11:42:04 AM
The guys that can do both, recruit and coach will be able to sustain things much longer than other coaches, meaning the rebuilding years will not be as long nor will they will fall quite as far. They may not get the best players but they get good players, guys willing to work at the game and work together. Kornaker is a great recruiter and success does make it easier. Goodemote can definitely do both and played for a guy that could really teach the game. He has been able to mold and craft a program that exudes toughness and gritty play things that a lot of players these days aren't willing to be. Kornaker definitely has an open and free style of play really requiring his players to have a high IQ. I have not seen enough Fisher games to know what his level coaching is at least in late game situations or managing games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 30, 2006, 12:54:42 PM
Mr. Chair-
Maybe UC has that rep in your eye- but living here and watching the drastic changes - there is a totally different feel over on Burrstone road!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on December 30, 2006, 02:35:22 PM
so fisher struggles to put away cortland...boy this could be a real long year....tonight should be very telling...also intrested to see what we do next week with Hobart RIT and NAZ all on the road...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 30, 2006, 03:56:32 PM
Fisher will be fine, they will make it to the E8 tournament atleast if not win it all.  are they going to go 14-0 or 13-1 in the conf. no.  they will probably drop atleast 3-4 games in the conf.  If that is calling it a long year then us Fisher fans have been really spoiled in previous years.  Any other team but fisher would love to be 11-3 or 10-4 in the conf.    I will say that just about everygame is going to be a battle for Fisher this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 30, 2006, 06:58:36 PM
didnt fisher win today?

super--cmon man- its not that bad-- at least they arent syracuse!!! :P
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 30, 2006, 11:27:25 PM
Yes Fisher did win 67-53.  Another solid win for Fisher who are now 6-1.  They should be getting some top 25 votes, this is rediculous.  dont get me wrong, idk if they are a top 25 team yet but theres no way Rochester or Utica should be getting votes over Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on December 30, 2006, 11:33:16 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 30, 2006, 03:56:32 PM
Fisher will be fine, they will make it to the E8 tournament atleast if not win it all.  are they going to go 14-0 or 13-1 in the conf. no.  they will probably drop atleast 3-4 games in the conf.  If that is calling it a long year then us Fisher fans have been really spoiled in previous years.  Any other team but fisher would love to be 11-3 or 10-4 in the conf.    I will say that just about everygame is going to be a battle for Fisher this year.

It comes to the point where you are used to only losing 1 or 2 games a year....and the games we are playing we either look real good or only so so....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on December 31, 2006, 12:46:45 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 30, 2006, 11:27:25 PM
Yes Fisher did win 67-53.  Another solid win for Fisher who are now 6-1.  They should be getting some top 25 votes, this is rediculous.  dont get me wrong, idk if they are a top 25 team yet but theres no way Rochester or Utica should be getting votes over Fisher.

Well then Brockport should be receiving some top 25 votes too then, being Fisher's only loss and also being 6-1 with a close loss on the road right?  They haven't received votes either.  There are lots of teams out there and not enough votes.  I'm not altogether familiar with Utica but know that they also have only one loss (to hamilton)...and Rochester ---  I'm not sure who this Lake Erie team was that they lost too earlier in the season...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 31, 2006, 10:52:00 AM
brockport should not be getting votes yet, like i said in a previous post.  In order for a team that hasnt been good in past years to get votes they have to have a better record than 6-1 more like 15-1.  As for Fisher, they should get votes from past year dominance, they should get more respect from the voters.  The rankings are based more than just the current years success.  As you can see with some teams with up to 3 losses.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on December 31, 2006, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 31, 2006, 10:52:00 AM
brockport should not be getting votes yet, like i said in a previous post.  In order for a team that hasnt been good in past years to get votes they have to have a better record than 6-1 more like 15-1.  As for Fisher, they should get votes from past year dominance, they should get more respect from the voters.  The rankings are based more than just the current years success.  As you can see with some teams with up to 3 losses.

I agree that Brockport shouldn't be receiving votes, I was just presenting a similiar argument that Superman had stated before.  As for the poll, It also depends on the "strength of victory" (I wanted to throw this in because I like the phrase) and strength of the opponents faced....the past should have nothing to do it for this year's rankings theoretically (even though they do).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 31, 2006, 12:01:03 PM
Please guys.
It is too early in the season to start the respect garbage.
Win the games and top 25 will come when deserved..
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 31, 2006, 03:38:38 PM
Agreed PG04.  The rankings rarely are on point in determining who is the better team anyways.  I would just like to see the East Region get more love.  I know it is weaker and doesnt deserve as much as some of the other regions but the few powerhouses should get more credit.  Anyways, the E8 should be a lot more interesting this year then previous year, and I cant wait to watch some of the games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 01, 2007, 04:46:32 PM
Big week for Fisher this week. Three games, all on the road. Also, playing RIT and Naz this weekend. Two of their bigger rivals and two huge road tests early in the E8 season.

My predictions for the weekend:

Utica pulls away late and beats a game Hartwick team by 12-15 points

Fisher has two close games and finds a way to escape with 2 wins...maybe by a combined 5 points...

RIT beats Alfred on saturday to start 1-1..

Naz beats Alfred on Friday to start 1-1 as well.

Ithaca will take it to Elmira on tuesday as well..
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 02, 2007, 02:35:03 PM
Where is everybody?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2007, 03:37:45 PM
slow day on the board- everyone is back to work- making up for time off!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 02, 2007, 03:50:44 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2007, 03:37:45 PM
slow day on the board- everyone is back to work- making up for time off!

I guess so...

Anyone out there have any thoughts on this weekends games...especially the Fisher/Naz/Rit weekend, and the Utica/Hartwick game?

tough week for fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2007, 03:59:36 PM
long week for the cards.
Need to put the pedal down now.
Testy week.

UC should handle wick though.
By all accounts UC is the team to beat...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 02, 2007, 04:27:57 PM
Fisheralum I think you need to change your name, how can you say UC is the team to beat when they have not beat fisher in 3 years.  Yeah they are good this year but Fisher isnt all that bad either.  Until they play, in my opinion Fisher is the team to beat, specially being an alum from Fisher idk how you could say that, you should be banned from you name. From reading your posts over the years you always act so clueless about everything you shouldn't even be allowed to make a statement like that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on January 02, 2007, 06:58:10 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 02, 2007, 04:27:57 PM
Fisheralum I think you need to change your name, how can you say UC is the team to beat when they have not beat fisher in 3 years.  Yeah they are good this year but Fisher isnt all that bad either.  Until they play, in my opinion Fisher is the team to beat, specially being an alum from Fisher idk how you could say that, you should be banned from you name. From reading your posts over the years you always act so clueless about everything you shouldn't even be allowed to make a statement like that.

Apparently, to be a Fisher Alum you have to have learned blind faith in sports teams that are only recently good.

Get a little sucess and the rational fans become pariah.

This will be the second example in the same season of a school trying to learn how to handle success.  FA91, don't give up hope.  There is still a chance your alma mater's fan base won't turn out like Rowan's.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 02, 2007, 07:10:55 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 02, 2007, 04:27:57 PM
Fisheralum I think you need to change your name, how can you say UC is the team to beat when they have not beat fisher in 3 years.  Yeah they are good this year but Fisher isnt all that bad either.  Until they play, in my opinion Fisher is the team to beat, specially being an alum from Fisher idk how you could say that, you should be banned from you name. From reading your posts over the years you always act so clueless about everything you shouldn't even be allowed to make a statement like that.

a little harsh on FA91 don't you think...

I am as big a fan of Fisher as anybody, but I have to admit that it seems to be if Fisher was going to lose the E8 crown to another team any year, this would be the year, and Utica would be the team. Whats more, I think most "experts" on E8 basketball would pick Utica to take the league this year (like the E8 coaches for example).
I think Fisher can/will win the league this year, but I have to give respect to a Utica team that has earned it.

lets not just dismiss teams because they are not Fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 02, 2007, 07:31:00 PM
Fisher looks a little sluggish so far against Hobart...turning the ball over and not rebounding very well...but some hot shooting still has them up 7 3/4 of the way through the first half...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 02, 2007, 09:13:27 PM
Fisher struggles a bit, but finds a way to pull away in the 2nd half and win by 21 over Hobart...It is Hobart but a win is a win...

Also I see RIT is winning in the 2nd half against U of R. A good sign for the Empire 8 that RIT can hang with a team that good.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gordonmann on January 02, 2007, 09:57:23 PM
Though beating Hobart doesn't mean a bunch, this is a nice streak for SJF.

For what it's worth, they are on the list of teams to watch for potential placement on my Top 25 ballot.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 03, 2007, 12:42:18 AM
Idk about blind truth and recent success Fisher has won the last 13 of 17 E8 Championships thats not really recent success thats total dominance of the Empire 8.  sjfcards how has utica earned it? yeah they are a rising program, a very good team with very good coach, but have they earned it? I don't have problems with people predicing utica to win the league this year, just the fact that it utica is the  clear favorite, we all have our opinions mine is just in Fishers favor.

Anyways, another win for Fisher finally getting a good blow out over a weak team but they were on the road so thats always a plus.

RIT hangs in close to UofR, they are still my sleeper of the E8.

Utica loses 59-48 to Clarkson.  Still think there the team to beat in the E8 'Fisheralum'  haha that post makes me laugh.  Utica again good, but how good? No ray Bryant, idk if he isn't back all second semester or hurt but in my opinion it doesnt matter, They were supposed to be so good last year but couldn't play with Fisher. We'll see, I do think they will get Fisher once this year at Home, but aren't the favorites to win the leauge. Beigal plays bryant tough and will contain him again this year if he's still around.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 03, 2007, 07:44:25 AM
Mr. Chair- thanks for the backing...
Fisher dyn-I am not a blinded fan or alum...
I have not seen Fisher play this year, but did see the UC -Hamilton game.
Even without many starters that team impressed me.
I am not a homer.  I love my alma mater. Ask anybody on this board.
Wait til you are out of there 15 years and see what perspective is.
I would love to see Fisher win the E8!
They can do it.
All i was stating was that - before the loss to Clarkson- UC had/has a very balanced attack and good coaching.
Oh and Fisher DYN- NEVER--NEVER question my loyalty to my alma mater.
It it is a laugh - to me and to everyone on this board that knows me.
Enjoy your break.....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on January 03, 2007, 08:48:59 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 03, 2007, 12:42:18 AM
Idk about blind truth and recent success Fisher has won the last 13 of 17 E8 Championships thats not really recent success thats total dominance of the Empire 8. 

That really is dominance.  Especially considering that there have only been 7 seasons of E8 hoops. (this season being the 8th).  Any team that can win 13 conference titles in 7 seasons gets my vote as the most dominating program in the land.  Furthermore, I'd have to check this, but the first season was the E8's probation year when the conference champ (not Fisher as I remember it) didn't get an auto bid.

Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 03, 2007, 12:42:18 AM
sjfcards how has utica earned it? yeah they are a rising program, a very good team with very good coach, but have they earned it? I don't have problems with people predicing utica to win the league this year, just the fact that it utica is the  clear favorite, we all have our opinions mine is just in Fishers favor.

UC made a run to the sweet sixteen and brought all the key pieces back.  Sounds like they earned favorite status to me.  Fisher is replacing key pieces.  FA91 is this the kind of logic we have to look forward to next fall on E8Nation?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 03, 2007, 08:51:37 AM
Sweet mother of pearl dont lump me in with this one Mr. Chair.
I would hope by now that I have proven some sort of objective thoughts and insight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 03, 2007, 09:30:58 AM
'UC made a run to the sweet sixteen and brought all the key pieces back.  Sounds like they earned favorite status to me.  Fisher is replacing key pieces.  FA91 is this the kind of logic we have to look forward to next fall on E8Nation?'

What is Justin Cichon and Willie Lucas? In my opinion Justin Cichon was as valuable if not more valuable the ray bryant, that kid could shoot lights out and was one of the best scoring threats in the E8. Willie Lucas made up alot of the heart of last years teams as well and always played very hard and physical many times pulling away double doubles. 

Anyways, enough about Utica vs Fisher, they havnt played yet so we'll see.  Any predictions on Fisher vs RIT and Naz this wkend?

I have Fisher -2.5 against RIT.
Fisher -1.5 against Naz.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 03, 2007, 09:33:13 AM
Where are the games old wise sage?

Still waiting for an apology newbie.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 03, 2007, 10:50:01 AM
Any predictions on Alfred (2-8) at Naz (4-4) and RIT (5-3)  to open E8 play this weekend?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 03, 2007, 11:11:48 AM
RIT falls to UR, 60-54. Jackets close the game on an 8-2 run after RIT ties the game on a four-point play by Rob Hampton with 3:49 left. UR up by two at half and stretches lead to seven before RIT responds with 8-0 run to take one point lead. Jackets strike back and open up an eight point lead at 50-42. RIT then goes on 10-2 run capped by aforementioned four-point play by Hampton. Tim Bacon and Kenny Gethers both post the same exact stat line of 12 pts and 9 rebs. Hampton scores 11 off the bench for the Tigers. Rough night for Barrett Zeinfeld: 2-11 FG, 0-8 3ptr
s. Mike Chmielowiec goes for 18 and 6 for UR; Tim Brackney chips in 14. Jon Onyiruka only scores 8, but adds six rebounds, five blocks and three assists.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 03, 2007, 11:13:20 AM
I'll be at the Hartwick game tonight in advance of our game against them on Saturday.  I'll be able to give you an honest assessment of the hawks tonight.  hey MadHawk you going to be there?

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 03, 2007, 11:15:48 AM
do you have to call him out?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 03, 2007, 11:45:14 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 03, 2007, 12:42:18 AM
Idk about blind truth and recent success Fisher has won the last 13 of 17 E8 Championships thats not really recent success thats total dominance of the Empire 8.  sjfcards how has utica earned it? yeah they are a rising program, a very good team with very good coach, but have they earned it? I don't have problems with people predicing utica to win the league this year, just the fact that it utica is the  clear favorite, we all have our opinions mine is just in Fishers favor.

Anyways, another win for Fisher finally getting a good blow out over a weak team but they were on the road so thats always a plus.


RIT hangs in close to UofR, they are still my sleeper of the E8.

Utica loses 59-48 to Clarkson.  Still think there the team to beat in the E8 'Fisheralum'  haha that post makes me laugh.  Utica again good, but how good? No ray Bryant, idk if he isn't back all second semester or hurt but in my opinion it doesnt matter, They were supposed to be so good last year but couldn't play with Fisher. We'll see, I do think they will get Fisher once this year at Home, but aren't the favorites to win the leauge. Beigal plays bryant tough and will contain him again this year if he's still around.

As others have said, Utica went to the sweet 16 last year and returned many of their key players. If you remember Fisher did not make the sweet 16 until a few years ago (the 28-1 year). Even with all the E8 championships they had not made it as far as Utica did last year until one year earlier...yet us Fisher fans were on this board asking for everyones respect because we had "earned" it...

I said it before and still say, I think Fisher will win the league this year, but Utica is definatly a good team, and has a very good chance of winning the league as well. That is not me being unloyal to my alma matter, but it is just being realisitc.

as far as predictions I think Fisher will go 2-0 this weekend, RIT and Naz will go 1-1, Alfred will go 0-2.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 03, 2007, 12:00:31 PM
I don't disagree with you at all SJFcards, and Utica deserves respect but people have been gettin on a high horse about them for no reason as of yet.  I also agree with yoru predictions, although with Fisher being away against to huge rivals, it will be tough to pull out 2 wins.  It is always very tough to play at RIT and Naz is Naz its always going to be close no matter how much of a discrepancy there is between the two teams. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 03, 2007, 12:03:31 PM
You agree with him dynasty and yet im the simp?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: labart96 on January 03, 2007, 12:46:18 PM
Nice comeback win for SJF over Hobart (although given that Bart is now 2-6, a win over Bart doesn't seem like a big accomplishment).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 03, 2007, 12:51:18 PM
I see Fisher is on the receiving votes list for the top 25 after this nice little win streak. I know that the rankings don't mean a great deal but it still nice to see that they are on their way up.
I think this streak of 7 wins is the best thing that could happen to Fisher early in the season. Especially after the loss to Brockport. Obviously winning seven in a row is never a bad thing...but winning a string a games and beating some good teams in the process will be huge for the young guys confidence.

Two tough games this weekend, hopefully Fisher can find a way to make it to 9-1
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 03, 2007, 01:07:02 PM
Both of those games make my nose itch.
Naz is always tough even when down...RIT---the unknown........
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 03, 2007, 01:12:53 PM
"Frankenstein never scared me".............
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 03, 2007, 01:25:44 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 03, 2007, 01:07:02 PM
Both of those games make my nose itch.
Naz is always tough even when down...RIT---the unknown........

I watched RIT play last night against U of R on the internet feed from U of R's website. They seem to be better than I had thought they would be. Very Physical and strong inside...they did not shoot the ball particularly well, but they seem to make up for that with hustle, rebounding, and strength. I like Fisher's big men inside against almost anybody in the E8, and I think they can have a big game if they can get RIT into some foul trouble...which U of R did last night.

If Fisher can shoot the ball well from behind the arc and have Mcsweeny and Beigle play well they should be
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on January 03, 2007, 08:02:33 PM
Any Utica fans out there know the story as to why Ray Byrant didn't play last night in UC's loss to Clarkson?  My sister's a UC grad and I was bragging them up and lo & behold they lose??
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 03, 2007, 09:27:31 PM
First Scranton is really good.  Probably would challenge for our league.
Second, same old Hartwick, not sure they will beat Elmira this year.
They stunk up the joint, when I left they were down a bunch at the 10 minute mark.

I feel very confident that Utica wins easily on Saturday. 
No MadHawk sightings either :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 03, 2007, 11:39:50 PM
Quote from: b4the3isme on January 03, 2007, 08:02:33 PM
Any Utica fans out there know the story as to why Ray Byrant didn't play last night in UC's loss to Clarkson?  My sister's a UC grad and I was bragging them up and lo & behold they lose??

I guess I had not realized that Ray Bryant did not play last night...that is interesting.
Obviously I hope he is not hurt, but it could be a break for every other team in the league.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on January 03, 2007, 11:47:19 PM
whats up with the shake-ups in the fisher line-up? all of a sudden fenyn is getting burn? he wasnt getting annnny clock in big games earlier in the season, now he's starting???
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 04, 2007, 12:45:27 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on January 03, 2007, 08:48:59 AM
That really is dominance.  Especially considering that there have only been 7 seasons of E8 hoops. (this season being the 8th).  Any team that can win 13 conference titles in 7 seasons gets my vote as the most dominating program in the land.  Furthermore, I'd have to check this, but the first season was the E8's probation year when the conference champ (not Fisher as I remember it) didn't get an auto bid.

You better check your history. The Empire 8/Empire Athletic Association has been around a LOT longer than eight years.

"At Clarkson, he was named Coach of the Year by the Empire Athletic Association after the 1988-89 season and was Co-Coach of the year in 1983-84, his inaugural season with the Golden Knights."

"In 1991, the ICAC regrouped to become the Empire Athletic Association (EAA). Hobart/William Smith, RPI, and St. Lawrence left in 1993, to be replaced by Elmira College, Nazareth College, and Utica College. Alfred University and St. John Fisher College joined the league in 1998.

The EAA became the Empire 8 in 1999, hosting 13 sports."

If you are going to hang your hat on a simple name change, you're way off base. This league has been around a lot longer than you want to admit.

You might want to do some research. Your chairmanship could be at stake. You're not on a football board anymore, Viper.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 04, 2007, 12:47:03 AM
with all the positions open it took a while to get the best line-up down and it still may not be fully complete.  Fenyn was hurt with an ankle injury for most of first semester so he was out of the mix from the start.  He should only improve as the year goes on as his ankle is better and he is now getting some time.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on January 04, 2007, 08:01:09 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 04, 2007, 12:45:27 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on January 03, 2007, 08:48:59 AM
That really is dominance.  Especially considering that there have only been 7 seasons of E8 hoops. (this season being the 8th).  Any team that can win 13 conference titles in 7 seasons gets my vote as the most dominating program in the land.  Furthermore, I'd have to check this, but the first season was the E8's probation year when the conference champ (not Fisher as I remember it) didn't get an auto bid.

I am well aware of the ICAC and the EAA. 

You better check your history. The Empire 8/Empire Athletic Association has been around a LOT longer than eight years.

"At Clarkson, he was named Coach of the Year by the Empire Athletic Association after the 1988-89 season and was Co-Coach of the year in 1983-84, his inaugural season with the Golden Knights."

"In 1991, the ICAC regrouped to become the Empire Athletic Association (EAA). Hobart/William Smith, RPI, and St. Lawrence left in 1993, to be replaced by Elmira College, Nazareth College, and Utica College. Alfred University and St. John Fisher College joined the league in 1998.

The EAA became the Empire 8 in 1999, hosting 13 sports."

If you are going to hang your hat on a simple name change, you're way off base. This league has been around a lot longer than you want to admit.

You might want to do some research. Your chairmanship could be at stake. You're not on a football board anymore, Viper.

I am well aware that the Empire 8 is the successor to the EAA which was the successor to the ICAC.  I am not hanging my hat on any name change.  The members have fluctuated over the years.  The current 8 basketball members have only been together since 1999. 

In fact, just to make my point even more directly, Fisher didn't join the EAA until 1998.  Hard to win 13 E8/EAA/ICAC titles when you have only been in the league 8 years.

http://empire8.com/History.html

Maybe your Guru status is in greater jeopardy than my Chairmanship.  Admit it Pat, you may not always like me but my posts are never baseless.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 04, 2007, 08:47:57 AM
.......stepping away from the keyboard.........
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 04, 2007, 12:44:42 PM
So it's not that there have been only eight seasons of E8 hoops, then, is it?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on January 04, 2007, 02:45:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 04, 2007, 12:44:42 PM
So it's not that there have been only eight seasons of E8 hoops, then, is it?

This is the 8th season of E8 hoops.  You can legitimately go back to 1995 if you'd like, which gives you 11 full seasons, but before that at least half the teams in the EAA/ICAC are teams that are not/have never been in the E8.  It is not as if a majority of these 8 teams have been in the same conference since the 1970s.

On a side note, guru are you sure you want to back the guy that just went spouting off about how Fisher has won 13 of the last 17 E8 titles?

EDIT: Someone has been drilling my karma for taking on the guru.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 04, 2007, 03:09:55 PM
whatever jose, I was just making a point, something you have a hard time doing!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 04, 2007, 03:12:39 PM
uh oh- newbie is on to bigger fish to fry.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: d3lifer on January 04, 2007, 03:17:37 PM
Clear-

In response to the your Hartwick analysis, Scranton is very good. Keep in mind that they played without two starters last night Cory Carson (18ppg)(6rpg) and Matt Simoneschi starting point guard who has a good understanding of the offense and where to go with the ball along with being a decent defender. Not sure the reason just happened to look at the boxscore, by no means does that mean they would win but it definitely would have changed the game and probably your overall opinion of 'Wick from stunk to solid.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 04, 2007, 03:23:49 PM
One piece of data from last season that seems pertinent to this weekend's RIT/Fisher matchup:

In the E8 tourney (@ Fisher) Tim Bacon lit up Fisher's interior players to the tune of 23 points and 8 rebounds.  That resulted in an OT thriller that Fisher barely escaped from (SOB hit a last second jumper).  If he continues that this weekend RIT may start the E8 season with a win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 04, 2007, 03:26:26 PM
Like Clearconceit, I took in last night's Hartwick game against University of Scranton. Scranton is an extremely talented and well coached team. I have a feeling that Paul Culpo put Scranton on the schedule as a stretch game and a benchmark for the team. The Hawks needed to play 110% in order to win the game. The Hawks gave the Royals a run for their money during the majority of the first half, and then got flat out beat in the second half.

Last night's game was the first game this season that the Hawks have been blown out, reminiscent of the past three seasons.

It is important to point out that last night Hartwick was without 2 pivotale starters (Cory Carson and Matt Simoneschi), as well as Josh MacKenzie. In fact, they weren't even on the bench or stands. I counted only 12 uniformed players last night for Hartwick. There is no official word on why Cory, Matt, and Josh weren't in uniform. Had Cory, Matt, and Josh played last the Hawks would have been a lot more competitive than they were.

I caution this board to not underestimate Hartwick this season. Along I don't expect Hartwick to win the E8 Championship this year, however, I would not be shocked to see them in February at the E8 Tournament. The team dynamics seem to be much different then the previous three season. The Hawks seem to be more experienced, there confidence level seems to be much higher , the coaching staff seems to be more confident with them team, and lastly there seems to be more leadership from the upperclassmen.

The Hawks are entering Empire 8 action with a much better resume then years past. They need only 6 more wins to have a winning season and become the first Men's Hartwick Basketball team this century to have a winning season. I know it is speculation, but if the Hawks play they way did in the first half of the season they could find themselves with a winning conference season as well.

The days of Hartwick being humiliated are hopefully over and a new era has been born.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 04, 2007, 03:48:31 PM
Who opened the portal to Oneonta?
What's next?  Madhawk?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on January 04, 2007, 04:29:52 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 04, 2007, 03:09:55 PM
whatever jose, I was just making a point, something you have a hard time doing!

Points are easier to make when they are based on things pulled out of thin air.

For instance, I think Ithaca will win the E8 Title because they have never lost a game in the E8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 04, 2007, 06:45:37 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 04, 2007, 07:02:43 PM
seems like something Fisheralum would have said
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on January 04, 2007, 08:50:36 PM
lines on this weekends games....

Friday-

fisher by 2.5 over RIT
naz by 13 over Alfred



Saturday-
fisher - naz pick 'em
RIT by 9 over Alfred
Utica by 16.5 over 'Wick (w/Bryant, by 6 without)


i think that's all the conference games...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 04, 2007, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 04, 2007, 03:23:49 PM
One piece of data from last season that seems pertinent to this weekend's RIT/Fisher matchup:

In the E8 tourney (@ Fisher) Tim Bacon lit up Fisher's interior players to the tune of 23 points and 8 rebounds.  That resulted in an OT thriller that Fisher barely escaped from (SOB hit a last second jumper).  If he continues that this weekend RIT may start the E8 season with a win.

Wow...big time stat...I had not thought of that, but then again I may have blocked that out of my mind...

Although that may be a key to the game, I think the Big Men for Fisher are improved this year...if nothing else they are clearly much more of the focus...Last year it was about guard play. O'brien and the rest of the gang. Hopefully McSweeny and Beigle can play well, and the guard play can produce big shots when called upon.
I take Fisher by 4...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 05, 2007, 07:49:50 AM
FisherDyn-
You are killing me.
Just cuz you got my irish up one day doesnt mean that i have it in for you.
Remember- I love Fisher too
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 05, 2007, 08:30:35 AM
I get the sense that many Fisher fans are a little bit more nervous about this year's squad. Fisher in the past couple of seasons have clearly been the most talented team in the E8 conference. However, it is very difficult to stay on top for long periods of time. I always expect Fisher to play strong Catholic basketball, although I don't think they will be as strong as in years past (Villanova University is in a similar situation). The basketball talent at Fisher is never at jeopardy, however, other E8 teams have figured out ways to recruit players away from Fisher more easily. I think this season will unravel this theory.

As for post season play, I think Fisher will make the E8 Tourney no problem. However, the jury is still out on the NCAA Tourney.

Lastly, I expect Fisher to give Elmira/Alfred trouble this season. While games against Hartwick/Ithaca/Naz/RIT/Utica will be more closely fought than in years past.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 05, 2007, 08:37:44 AM
could someone explain "catholic basketball"?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2007, 08:49:00 AM
Totally agree Post up.  Definatly not as good as past Fisher teams but still can beat good teams if guards play above their norm.  Also, with less options it forces the big guys to play better then in recent years.  I dont really think its that E8 teams have figured out how to recruit players away from fisher more easily, just the Fisher is young, this is one of the better classes of frosh Fisher has had in 4 years.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on January 05, 2007, 09:00:35 AM
Quote from: postup101 on January 05, 2007, 08:30:35 AM
Fisher in the past couple of seasons have clearly been the most talented team in the E8 conference.

Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2007, 08:49:00 AM
I dont really think its that E8 teams have figured out how to recruit players away from fisher more easily, just the Fisher is young, this is one of the better classes of frosh Fisher has had in 4 years.

In a sense, I think I agree with FisherDinosaurBrain here.  I don't think E8 recruiting patterns have changed all that much over the past 7 or 8 seasons.  But, I suppose FisherDelusionary and I would disagree as to what that pattern has been.  I don't Fisher gets the top recruits in the league now or at any other point.  Kornaker's teams are full of good solid players but few are superstars.  He is a good coach and knows which kind of role players will fit his system well.  He gets those kids and puts them in a place to succeed.  Sine Kornaker arrived five years ago I would say Naz has gotten the highest number of superstar type recruits, followed closely by Ithaca.  In that time however, Kornaker has dominated the league by targeting the kids he wants.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on January 05, 2007, 09:13:29 AM
Another thing that Kornacker has done is establish a survival of the fittest reputation for recruiting in his program. They normally bring in a lot of recruits and a only a few end up being on varsity and contributing their freshmen year. By their senior year there might be 3 or 4 kids that end up doing well for them.

I'm not saying anything is wrong with that, usually that philosophy brings out competition and people have to compete everyday in practice to get playing time. One problem other coaches might have with that is that some kids at Fisher are probably good enough to play elsewhere and aren't even playing college basketball.

Kornacker has been successful using his survival of the fittest (whether he calls it that or not) philosophy to win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on January 05, 2007, 09:26:23 AM
Quote from: slickyquick on January 05, 2007, 09:13:29 AM
Another thing that Kornacker has done is establish a survival of the fittest reputation for recruiting in his program. They normally bring in a lot of recruits and a only a few end up being on varsity and contributing their freshmen year. By their senior year there might be 3 or 4 kids that end up doing well for them.

I'm not saying anything is wrong with that, usually that philosophy brings out competition and people have to compete everyday in practice to get playing time. One problem other coaches might have with that is that some kids at Fisher are probably good enough to play elsewhere and aren't even playing college basketball.

Kornacker has been successful using his survival of the fittest (whether he calls it that or not) philosophy to win.

I'm not sure how unique that is to Kornaker.  I can think of a few other DIII schools that use a similar system in recruiting.  However, it isn't as dishonest as it may sound.  Because recruits don't sign letters or intent, no one is locked in to come to a school until they show up for the first day of classes.  The tradeoff is coaches aren't limited by scholarship numbers.  As a result, coaches don't want to be left holding the bag because the only PG they recruited ends up giving up his deposit and heading to another school so, they recruit five PGs every year.  It is just the nature of the beat in non-scholarship athletics.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2007, 09:43:01 AM
haha those names are actually kind of funny, I thought I was going to end up agreeing with your post but I don't.  Yes Kornacker gets the kids he wants to fit his system but I do beleive Fisher does get the best kids with the best talent.  Naz over the years has had great talent in the Jim Evans and lawrence maroney era, however, besides that, Fishers players are 100 times better then the others in the leauge especially ithaca, I dont think one player on ithaca would have craced the starting line-up for fisher the past 4 years since ty shultz (Yes i considered bellis).  The reason why fishers players are superstars is because 1)they are team players 2) there are 4-5 on the court so a different one steps up everygame (until this year with 3 solids back). if you put anyone of the fisher players from their top 5 starters and even first 2 bench players they avg. 15+ on any other team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 05, 2007, 09:50:30 AM
I think survival of the fittest recruiting is absolutely necessary in this day in age. Student athletes in todays society are much more apt to quit easier or transfer when things aren't going well (academically/financially/athletically. There are much more choices available out there in today's day in age and transferring has become socially acceptable. Coaches are being forced to use survival of the fittest strategies in order to ensure there talent pool is primed.

In regards to Fisher, it also helps having a JV and a financial aid office giving out exceptional packages compared to other E8 institutions.

If Hartwick still had Eddie McAdoo, Sterling Green, Greg Betancourt, Anthony Brown, Jeff Dills in the line up they would be MUCH more of a power this year and probably be contending for E8 Title. It is a shame that Paul Culpo lost there guys, however, he obviously is doing some write seeing that he has a solid group of players back this season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on January 05, 2007, 10:21:15 AM
Quote from: postup101 on January 05, 2007, 09:50:30 AM
I think survival of the fittest recruiting is absolutely necessary in this day in age. Student athletes in todays society are much more apt to quit easier or transfer when things aren't going well (academically/financially/athletically. There are much more choices available out there in today's day in age and transferring has become socially acceptable. Coaches are being forced to use survival of the fittest strategies in order to ensure there talent pool is primed.

In regards to Fisher, it also helps having a JV and a financial aid office giving out exceptional packages compared to other E8 institutions.

If Hartwick still had Eddie McAdoo, Sterling Green, Greg Betancourt, Anthony Brown, Jeff Dills in the line up they would be MUCH more of a power this year and probably be contending for E8 Title. It is a shame that Paul Culpo lost there guys, however, he obviously is doing some write seeing that he has a solid group of players back this season.

I don't think student athletes are any more apt to quit or transfer today than at any previous time in history.  I just think that is the nature of the DIII game.  Division III really fosters an environment where kids are encouraged to be true student-athletes.  This means athletics, while involved, are an extracurricular activity and not a job.  The downside to this is, there is always the possibility that a player's other extracurricular (or curricular) activities will outweigh the importance of athletics.  The ease with which players can walk away is one of the beuties of the DIII game in my opinion.  Players on scholarship are locked into remaining with the team for fear of losing their money.  Kids should be allowed to make the most of their college experience, wheter or not that involves a full athletic career.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2007, 10:49:32 AM
On a further note, many coaches in DIII are required or have incentives to attract kids to their respective colleges, therefore, if they are recruiting a kid from out of state, if the kid is good enough to make the team or not, it makes the school look better thus encourages the coach to recruit or show interest in a number of kids.  Also, when recruiting, in my opinion, you should always over recruit because you never know how many kids are going to chose your school, be as good as you though, etc. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 05, 2007, 10:54:13 AM
Fisherdyn- we both know that "incentives" are not allowed....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2007, 11:30:48 AM
$ incentives are not allowed but overall incentives as in keeping your job and your employer happy always exist
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 05, 2007, 11:41:59 AM
understood- i was speaking about $.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 05, 2007, 03:32:52 PM
Predictions for this weekend:

FRIDAY

Fisher over RIT, 60-55. In a slow-it-down slugfest, Fisher escapes with the win on a late 3-pointer by Dan Mueller. It will be tight throughout and should be a good matchup between Bacon and McSweeney down low. I think this game could go either way but Fisher's experience prevails in the end.

Naz over Alfred, 82-66. This game won't even be that close.

SATURDAY

Utica over Hartwick, 70-54. Not enough firepower for the Hawks to stay in this one, with or without Ray Bryant.

RIT over Alfred, 69-56. Alfred has some strength inside but RIT has more. Bacon outplays Stein and Zeinfeld has a big game from outside as the Tigers split their weekend.

Fisher over Naz, 79-76 in OT. Fisher gets their second nailbiter of their weekend and, once again, prevails. Naz will be up for this game, as they always are, and may even have more talent at most of the positions, but I'll take Kornaker and Co., over Daley every time.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 05, 2007, 03:46:37 PM
By the way, we may soon be talking about Naz frosh Corey McAdam as not only the E8 ROY, but also the E8 POY. Have you looked at this kid's numbers? He's averaging 15.3 points, 6.4 rebounds, 8 assists, and 3 steals per night. That is disgusting. He put up 18 pts, 7 rebs, 13 assists against a very good Wheaton team in Naz's OT loss. Wow.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on January 05, 2007, 05:51:55 PM
Saw C. McAdam in preseason scrimmage at Cortland and he was best player on the floor THEN! Have no doubt he'll leave his mark. Big bro had sidelining wrist injury. Is he ready to go? Outside-inside McAdams tough combo
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 05, 2007, 05:58:04 PM
Anyone want to take an early shot at the Chase Tourney seedings?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2007, 06:16:06 PM
GoBombers, Check the Chase Tourney Seedings board.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 05, 2007, 07:42:45 PM
Is there no radio call, or live stats of the Fisher RIT game tonight?

If anyone knows of one...please let me know
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2007, 10:42:29 PM
Fisher takes care of RIT on the road.  Huge final minute inbounds play leading to a Mcsweeney dunk to ice the game and put Fisher up 4.  The game was a very slow paced low scoring game that was pretty sloppy.  Neither team looked very good.  However, It is always tough to play at RIT and I can only remember 1 game in the past few years where Fisher actually looked good in that gym.  That being said, great win, Tomorrows game should be a good one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2007, 11:22:26 PM
Forget to mention that the 3 bigs for Fisher all played farely well, with Mcsweeney dominating at will.  Dan mueller is playing at the top of his game rate now, when he's hitting and playing at the top of his game Fisher is the team to beat in the E8.  When he is off, they could get beat by a few of the teams.  For RIT, Tim Bacon had some nice moves, zeinfeld did okay, and that freshmen i liked a lot whitmore or somthin like that was about 6'6 hitting 3's and looked pretty solid. 

In other action, Naz close one against alfred, who knows about them, they are the weirdest team ever.

Bport beat a talented Hamilton squad by 20, Bport i guess can be considered as of right now the #1 seed in the Chase.  I still would like to see a Fisher rematch I dont think Bport would get them again. 

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 06, 2007, 12:44:59 AM
It looks like the big men of Fisher were a big part of the success that they had tonight. However, the most important thing in my mind is Mueller and Smalt...

McSweeny and Beigle are studs inside, and they are probably going to get theirs against almost every team they play. If Fisher can get double digit points out of Mueller and Smalt like they did tonight, they become very close to unbeatable in upstate NY.

Mueller has played well in the last 4 games (double digits in all 4). When he scores the ball it gives Fisher an outside game to compliment the big men inside and creates a world of hurt for many, if not all, teams Fisher will play this year. Also, Smalt contributing close to a double double like he did tonight takes a huge weight off of McSweeny and Beigle inside. Not only does it take a scoring load off of the two big men, but also rebounding the ball as well.

If Fisher can get production out of Mueller and Smalt like they did tonight, it gives them 4 players that can produce and take some pressure off of the guard play...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on January 06, 2007, 02:49:02 AM
fisher wins of course a close one...sounds like it was kinda sloppy from what im hearing and wasnt decided til the final minute...this fisher lineup bouncing around is really confusing me...who is gonna emerge in crunch time??? especially guard-wise...

naz, bud says they were up big, lost lead, then wins with an and-1 with less than 2 seconds left from tyler smith...as for ryan mcadams, said hes in street clothes with a cast on his left arm. teams doing nice without him imagine if he were playing...but coreys doin well to say the least- all i hear is they let a big guy set a screen for him at the top of the key and let mcadams do what he wants....guess nobody knows how to guard a pick and roll at the top of the key? so if im coachin over at naz, im letting them do it everyyyyyyyy time town the floor until someone realizes it's their best offense and u gotta stop it...


as for tomorrow...

RIT over Alfred in a close one...
NO IDEA on this NAZ-Fisher game...guess fsher played real sloppy tonight, guess naz played ok plus who knows how naz is gonna show up...they almost beat #17 team but then struggle vs alfred??


PS-this RIT squad is a sleeper i think...seems like if they're hitting from 3 they can beat anyone, but i guess thats true for any team, but i think specifically for these technical nerds over at RIT...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 06, 2007, 11:40:23 AM
That seems to be Naz's MO this year: jump out to a big lead, blow it in the second half then hang on for dear life and hope you come out on top. They blew a 21-point lead against #17 Wheaton in the second half. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen today against Fisher.

One other score concerning an E8 team last night: Cornell routs Ithaca, 80-47. Not a huge surprise there and I'm not gonna put much stock in it.

EDIT: Another monster night from Corey McAdam: 29 pts, 5 rebs, 9 assists, 6 steals. Right now, he has to be the favorite for E8 POY with Ray Bryant in and out of the lineup.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 06, 2007, 01:06:11 PM
Caught the game at RIT last night.  I'll say this now -- the only way Fisher is winning the E8 this year is if they manage to get the tourney at their place.  Otherwise it's not happening.  You heard it here first.  They'll finish in the top 4 in the regular season.  They are a decent team with above average big men and good coaching, but they rotate what seems like 6 to 7 freshman/sophomores in the guard spots, none of seem that much different from the other.

I was surprised to see they started Matt Newman, the guard from last year's state champion Campbell-Savona squad. 

Fouls plagued RIT last night, I think they had 10 fouls on them with 10 minutes left in the second. 

This team is finishing in the top 4.  They have a couple of good juniors who came in from CC's (Gethers, Leslie), and as another poster stated, a 6'6" freshman shooter (Young) who is going to present defensive problems for some teams. 

Fisher/RIT/Utica are getting into the tournament.  Everyone else will be fighting it out for the last spot.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on January 06, 2007, 04:51:18 PM
 
First my prediction for today's Naz fisher game,  Naz by 12.   

Second some thoughts on the recruiting at Fisher and other D3 schools.  I believe the schools allow and encourages the over recruiting of high schools students in all their sports.  For Kornaker and other coaches it is a windfall, having all these kids (the masses) to mold into the team of there liking over a season or even a couple of years (the few).  It's like being a Mormon and marring six wives and never having to choose your favorite.  For the colleges it commits a group of students to their schools that for the most part can afford to be their and at the same time with little to no aid from the colleges.  Most of these athletes do not have time for their studies, the sports and a part time job so the parent foot most of the college bill and the life cost as well.   These students may not sign any letters of commitment but they are committed to becoming one of the gems of their chosen sport at a well respected school.  The shame of the chase is that most of the masses end up with little time as the years go on and are relegated towards the end of the bench or off the team as the cycle repeats.  In the meantime the school wins big time as this over recruited class of athletes and their parents foot the a majority of the students bill for a solid four years of education.  Distracters might say that the student gets a good education but the college gets a committed student who might easily have gone elsewhere.  For the college it is all about marketing. There is a story a couple years ago that the Fisher Women's softball team recruited 31 athletes for two spots.  When the coach spoke some concern for disillusioning so many athletes an administrator from the college told the, your job is to get these kids here,  our job is to keep them (after they are no longer part of the team)   (If you think Basketball has a big team take a look at the football sidelines)

So in summary:
Athletes and their parents get to chase a dream of continuing their high school stardom by becoming part of the masses
Coaches get to dabble with a huge amount of athletes while they mold their team of a few
Colleges get a great crop of higher % paying students to their schools with the hope of retaining them for 4 years. 

Thus everybody wins or at least the colleges do, the coaches do and the few athletes that play and thrive into their senior years. 
The rest, well, what an education in life the get as they learn to handle frustration and disappointments. 

Good luck Mueller and Smalt and company today, hope you and the few do well today and prove my prediction wrong.  Either way my heart goes out to the masses and their families as they continue to support the program 100% hoping that their day may come, eventually.........
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 06, 2007, 05:42:23 PM
Just got done listening to the Fisher/Naz game...Fisher gets down double digits early...but they are able to keep it somewhat close, and their talent and depth(??) takes over and they end up winning  by 12 I think.

A couple of thoughts:
Canori from Naz is an absolute Stud of a player...30 points

Fisher was able to use the bench scoring to cover a bad game scoring wise for McSweeny. Beigle was great in the late going...

the main thought is that more than anything Naz found a way to lose. Late in the game they had no answer for Beigle (3 straight buckets late) and Naz I think turned the ball over on two straight inbound plays in the last minute and a half.

Bench Scoring Fisher 21   Naz 4
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on January 06, 2007, 06:06:34 PM
Good win for fisher, listened to part of the game, agree with Sjfcards that no answer for Beigel at end of game.  McKeever came in and slowed down Canori who was on fire early and often, McKeever and Newman also some late game threes to build momentum.
Announcer seemed to think that fatigue in the second half doomed Nazareth as both teams had games last night as well.
Thanks for proving me wrong on my prediction.
Nice to see some bench time for Fisher and the bench performing well as fisher went 11 deep. 
Any truth in the rumor that Fisher is building a new field house so they can expand from 24 to 35 players and 6 to 10 Coaches? 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 06, 2007, 06:13:41 PM
I also see that UC took care of Hartwick...looks like it wasn't all that tough.

Also I see RIT let down and loss to AU?? How does that work.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2007, 06:54:43 PM
Just saw the Fisher vs Naz game.  Two thoughts, this years fishers team is not very fun to watch, second they find ways to win, and third they are still the favorites in my opinion to win this league.  Idk how i would feel to be a Naz player right now, they gave Fisher everything they had playing the best they could play in the first half only to be tied, haha.  Second half they came back down to reality and Fisher started to dominate.  That being said huge two road wins for Fisher, always tough to go 2-0 in that tandem season in and season out.  Lookin good goin into the Chase.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on January 06, 2007, 07:35:55 PM
just got back from taking in that fisher game @ naz...

-mcsweeny? hmmm 2-12 with one of those buckets being a dunk with 1 minute left... just not playing well at all i guess...

-fisher hit some big 3's and got shots whenever they needed them. meanwhile naz could never get a bucket when they needed one..

-looks like canori FINALLY plays well...goes for 30...also saw him walking around after the game with a big smile on his face as if naz just handled fisher, interesting...meanwhile older mcadams and other naz players looking quiiite pissed off at the loss...

-...wasn't i just at naz's gym? not the manning napier varsity gymnasium? game called REALLY tight for naz, fishers defenders got away with  shoving C. mcadams in the lane all day, naz didnt get any calls that fisher got thats for sure...made C mcadams look human and like a freshman...speaking of officiating- hmm so double t's called?? smith from naz gets in a jump ball with beigel, who then gets in smiths face and from where i was it looked like he said 'WEIGHT ROOM' like a meathead...come on justin, especially since you played well tody dont do anything stupid like that...

-once again, those naz kids go up big, lose it as newman ties it at the half with his layup off a naz turnover, that was a huuuuuuge turnaround..

-overall, big win for fisher...they were down early but came back and took care of business. it's a shame this rivalry game has to be played at one of these 2 schools while 1 is on break so the student body cant be out in full effect for whichever team. could've helped naz a bit today...


now to the CHASE, maybe we'll see these 2 teams meet again
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 06, 2007, 08:11:47 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 06, 2007, 01:06:11 PM

This team is finishing in the top 4.  They have a couple of good juniors who came in from CC's (Gethers, Leslie), and as another poster stated, a 6'6" freshman shooter (Young) who is going to present defensive problems for some teams. 

Fisher/RIT/Utica are getting into the tournament.  Everyone else will be fighting it out for the last spot.

Well, 0-2 in the conference right now with both losses being at home. The Fisher loss is almost expected, but the Alfred one may hurt at the end of the season when there is likely to be a logjam after Utica and Fisher. Seems that Alfred's tough early schedule had them prepared to start the conference season.

Predicted Utica to beat Hartwick 70-54 and almost had my first exact hit as the Pioneers upend the Hawks, 72-54. I better not find out there was a garbage layup.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2007, 08:20:44 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 06, 2007, 08:11:47 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 06, 2007, 01:06:11 PM

This team is finishing in the top 4.  They have a couple of good juniors who came in from CC's (Gethers, Leslie), and as another poster stated, a 6'6" freshman shooter (Young) who is going to present defensive problems for some teams. 

Fisher/RIT/Utica are getting into the tournament.  Everyone else will be fighting it out for the last spot.

Well, 0-2 in the conference right now with both losses being at home. The Fisher loss is almost expected, but the Alfred one may hurt at the end of the season when there is likely to be a logjam after Utica and Fisher. Seems that Alfred's tough early schedule had them prepared to start the conference season.

Predicted Utica to beat Hartwick 70-54 and almost had my first exact hit as the Pioneers upend the Hawks, 72-54. I better not find out there was a garbage layup.


There was, but in your favor. Hartwick had conceeded with about 30 seonds left, then threw a full court pass and shot an uncontested layup with a second left as most players were already walking.

Coco lit it up in the second half, finished with 31. Utica played tough. At half time, between the two teams, only 1 player who dressed hadn't played.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2007, 08:30:49 PM
E8bball Fan, In beigals defense, he did say something after he ripped the ball from smith but smith is the one who walked over and got in beigals face im surprised beigal didnt push him. 

Bamm, so much for you RIT automatically in the E8 tourny.  that alfred lost is going to haunt them, idk if they will be able to be naz, i think they will split with naz, lose to fisher again, Utica twice, and ithaca once, should be interesting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2007, 08:31:18 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 06, 2007, 11:40:23 AM


EDIT: Another monster night from Corey McAdam: 29 pts, 5 rebs, 9 assists, 6 steals. Right now, he has to be the favorite for E8 POY with Ray Bryant in and out of the lineup.


If/when Ray comes back, and he keeps having nights like the 26 point, 20 rebound game his last time out, there is no way the league gives it to a freshman over a senior. Last year Ray had the numbers to win it, but there was no way O'Brien wasn't going to get the nod his senior year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 06, 2007, 08:57:32 PM
Is Ray Bryant comming back?

Why is he out...is it grades? is it discipline oriented? or something else...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2007, 09:57:07 PM
UCgrad, I agree, after seeing McAdam tonight, theres no way he is good enough yet to be the league MVP, I know he has been putting up some amazing worthy numbers and he is a good player, but not close to the best in the league yet.  He had about atleats 7 turnovers tonight against fisher and shot about 30%. yes it is just one game but he did not look anything like a league MVP and probably wont get it until his jr to sr year if he ever does.  However, For a freshmen I did like his game alot, he is very poise and under control, has good footwork, and makes things happen.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2007, 10:07:47 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2007, 09:57:07 PM
UCgrad, I agree, after seeing McAdam tonight, theres no way he is good enough yet to be the league MVP, I know he has been putting up some amazing worthy numbers and he is a good player, but not close to the best in the league yet.  He had about atleats 7 turnovers tonight against fisher and shot about 30%. yes it is just one game but he did not look anything like a league MVP and probably wont get it until his jr to sr year if he ever does.  However, For a freshmen I did like his game alot, he is very poise and under control, has good footwork, and makes things happen.


I'll have to watch for him. He sounds like he can play, but you pay your dues in this league before you get awards. Thats why they have the freshman of the year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 07, 2007, 12:17:06 AM
Was at Utica game and it really wasn't close.  As for any POY awards I will be hard pressed to find someone better than Ray, but Coco put on a show today.  We had 3 guys on him at times and he still scored.  Thank god Hartwick doesn't have anyone else.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 07, 2007, 12:45:27 AM
Quote from: clearconceit on January 07, 2007, 12:17:06 AM
Was at Utica game and it really wasn't close.  As for any POY awards I will be hard pressed to find someone better than Ray, but Coco put on a show today.  We had 3 guys on him at times and he still scored.  Thank god Hartwick doesn't have anyone else.

Hartwick was short handed as well. They were missing their second leading scorer (Carson, averages almost 17 a game).

On the other hand, after Doug Herring picked up that foul on the terrible call with about 11 minutes to go in the first, he was out the rest of the half.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 07, 2007, 01:00:35 AM
Some thoughts on the weekend...

1)Fisher continues to prove to me that they are still the team to beat in the Empire 8. Especially the last 4 or 5 games they have got quality contributions from some of the guards and the bench...If Fisher can continue this they can/should win the league. no disrespect to Utica.
2)Utica took care of Hartwick...A team that they should beat, but Wick seems tobe a team that may jump up and beat some teams this year...A good win for UC.
3)RIT had a rough week. After a tight loss to U of R, to lose to Fisher at home is bad enough (two tight losses back to back), but to come out flat and lay an egg against Alfred really hurts them. I know it is the first weekend of conference play, but the loss at home to AU could come back to bite them.
4)Fisher's loss to Brockport is looking better and better, as well as their win against U of R.

Another good week of D III basketball...I took some heat this weekend for being so into Fisher basketball...but lets be serious, it is just fun to do. I know the board will back me up...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 07, 2007, 01:59:41 AM
My first post of the season and I already look silly.  Tough sports weekend for me already (starting with the SU loss), if the Eagles lose tomorrow I might have to go into hibernation.

Anyway, I wasn't at the Tigers game today, but they obviously blew a game they should have won.

Regardless, I stand by my statement.  This team will win 8-10 games in conference.  Write it down.  All that matters is the standings at the end of the season.  This team has the players, and McVean always manages a spot in the postseaon tourney. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 07, 2007, 01:01:16 PM
Hartwick had another rough night without Cory Carson and Matt Simoneschi.

Cory Carson has been a HUGE factor in the success of Hartwick basketball so far this season.  Here are some interesting stats on Cory:

Games played:9
Total Minutes played: 283  (avg 31.4 minutes, 2nd on Team)

FG Percentage: 610 ( 3rd on Team)
3 Point Percentage: .357 (5th on Team)
FT Percentage: .735 (5 on Team)
Point per Game: 16.9 (2nd on Team)
Rebounds per Game: 6.3 (1st on Team)
Offensive Rebounds per Game: 1.3 (3rd on Team)
Defensive Rebounds per Game: 5.0 (1st on Team)

FG Attempts per Game 11.1 (2nd on Team)
FG Made per Game: 6.8 (2nd on Team)
3 Point Attempts per Game: 1.6 (3rd on Team)
3 Points Made per Game: 0.6 (3rd on Team)
Free Throw Attempts per Game: 3.8 (2nd on Team)
Free Throw Made per Game: 2.8 (2nd on Team)
Points Average per Game: 16.9 (2nd on Team)

Assist per Game: 3.9 (1st on Team) Note: Matt Simoneschi is 2nd with 3.2.

Steals per Game: 1.7 (1st on Team)
Blocked shots per Game: .7 (1st on Team)

Bottom Line:
Cory is a high value player for Hartwick not only for his individual stats but also his contribution to the stats for other Hartwick players.

Cory Carson and Jan Cocozziello could arguably be the best 1-2 punch in the E8 Conference.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on January 07, 2007, 01:46:15 PM
Re: Ray Bryant

Utica OD story this morning says Bryant is sitting out four games to concentrate on his academics. The writer said yesterday was the second of four that he will not be playing.

The same story says that the two Hartwick starters who were not in the line-up were not playing for disciplinary reasons.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 07, 2007, 04:41:50 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 07, 2007, 01:01:16 PM


Cory Carson and Jan Cocozziello could arguably be the best 1-2 punch in the E8 Conference.


Hmmm, thanks for the offer but I think I'll take Canori and Corey McAdam everyday of the week and twice on Sundays over your combo. In fact, I'd also take Bostic and Burton over your combo, too. And while I'm at it, I'd take some form of Zeinfeld/Gethers/Bacon, too. Also, I think I'd like Bryant/Herring more, as well. Oh, and don't forget McSweeney and Beigel.

Don't confuse big numbers from players who HAVE to put those up in order for their team to even compete with average numbers on teams with a lot of players. If we followed your logic, Shareef Abdur-Rahim would have been one of the best players in the NBA for about five straight years when he was in Vancouver, given the numbers he put up.

Anyone think that's MadHawk in disguise. While there wasn't a "well, folks" in there, there WAS a "bottom line." That's one out of two on MH's patented statements.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 07, 2007, 04:55:42 PM
Agreed gobombers. Id take any of those convo's over the two mentioned previously by 'madhawk maybe?'.  You didnt mention a Doug Herrig (my opinion best pg in the leauge) & ray ray.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 07, 2007, 08:47:20 PM
Dear D3hoops Basketball Community:

I need to make something clear on this board: I am NOT MADHAWK! Being new to this board I don't appreciate the insult.

Just because I am a Hartwick fan shouldn't mean that I am treated like a 2nd class citizen on this board

It is my understanding that the purpose of this board is to discuss Empire 8 Basketball.

This board is not going to grow if its members consistantly make derogatory comments towards other members, particulary new ones (like me)!

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 07, 2007, 08:55:42 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 07, 2007, 08:47:20 PM
Dear D3hoops Basketball Community:

I need to make something clear on this board: I am NOT MADHAWK! Being new to this board I don't appreciate the insult.

Just because I am a Hartwick fan shouldn't mean that I am treated like a 2nd class citizen on this board

It is my understanding that the purpose of this board is to discuss Empire 8 Basketball.

This board is not going to grow if its members consistantly make derogatory comments towards other members, particulary new ones (like me)!



Relax, bud. We're just pointing out how incorrect your statement was that Coco/Carson are the best 1-2 punch in the E8.

Looks like we're going to have a Fisher/RIT rematch in the Chase!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 08, 2007, 12:09:41 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 07, 2007, 04:41:50 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 07, 2007, 01:01:16 PM


Cory Carson and Jan Cocozziello could arguably be the best 1-2 punch in the E8 Conference.


Hmmm, thanks for the offer but I think I'll take Canori and Corey McAdam everyday of the week and twice on Sundays over your combo. In fact, I'd also take Bostic and Burton over your combo, too. And while I'm at it, I'd take some form of Zeinfeld/Gethers/Bacon, too. Also, I think I'd like Bryant/Herring more, as well. Oh, and don't forget McSweeney and Beigel.

Don't confuse big numbers from players who HAVE to put those up in order for their team to even compete with average numbers on teams with a lot of players. If we followed your logic, Shareef Abdur-Rahim would have been one of the best players in the NBA for about five straight years when he was in Vancouver, given the numbers he put up.

Anyone think that's MadHawk in disguise. While there wasn't a "well, folks" in there, there WAS a "bottom line." That's one out of two on MH's patented statements.

There really are a lot of good players in the conference. When you look at it like arch rivals style with the two top players from each team it really hits you that there is some talent.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on January 08, 2007, 06:52:41 PM
Thanks Mr. McGraw for solving the Ray Byrant mystery!!  I've been trying to get that question answered since his failure to play in the Clarkson game!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 09, 2007, 09:47:22 AM
Good article about Joe Canori. I didn't realize he had over 1,000 points already...the conference season just began in his junior year. He's on pace to become Naz's all-time leading scorer.

http://democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070109/SPORTS09/701090343/1007/SPORTS
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 09, 2007, 09:51:15 AM
By the way, the Fisher/RIT game will be Wednesday night. Where, you ask? At RIT, of course.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 09, 2007, 10:04:01 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 09, 2007, 09:47:22 AM
Good article about Joe Canori. I didn't realize he had over 1,000 points already...the conference season just began in his junior year. He's on pace to become Naz's all-time leading scorer.

http://democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070109/SPORTS09/701090343/1007/SPORTS

McQuaid graduate Chris Pegan is Nazareth's all-time leading scorer with 1,805 points. At his current pace, Canori has an outside shot to catch him.

And when it comes to outside shots, opponents know all too well that Canori rarely misses.

JMAND@DemocratandChronicle.com


Nicely worded!  ;)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 09, 2007, 10:56:22 AM
It is interesting to point out that of all the E8 teams Hartwick did the best containing Mr. Canori last season.

They held him to only 3 points on the 1/28/2006 meeting. Canori played 36 minutes that game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 09, 2007, 11:31:06 AM
Actually, that's not interesting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 09, 2007, 11:56:21 AM
Quote from: bamm on January 09, 2007, 11:31:06 AM
Actually, that's not interesting.

It is to me...

Please respect my posts and I will respect yours..deal?

Thank You
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 09, 2007, 12:18:21 PM
Look, I think we all enjoy reading different perspectives from fans of various schools here, but if you're a Hartwick fan and you aren't prepared to be made fun of you're not being very realistic about this "message board" thing. 

I'll stop making fun of Hartwick and your posts when your boys find a way to beat one of Fisher/Utica/RIT/Ithaca.  Something they haven't done in 3 seasons (they beat Ithaca in '03/'04 somehow).  Only at that point is Hartwick relevant.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 09, 2007, 12:31:54 PM
I'm going to lead this off by saying I'm not a Hartwick fan, just an upstate DIII hoops fan, but I have to agree with postup on this.

While he was misguided on his Coco/Carson being the best duo in the league — they might be in the top five (towards the bottom) — his posts are nowhere near the garbage MadHawk threw out last year.

I agree that Hartwick will still be made fun until they can beat someone respectable in the league, but the personal shots should cease until postup throws out way more absurd comments than his Coco/Carson one.

As for shots at me, I'm fine with that, having no allegiance to any E8 teams myself. I just think it's time to focus on the hoops not on the posters. I enjoy reading — and occasionally contributing to — the banter about the teams and their coaches, but the personal crap is a bit juvenile for my taste. Why don't we stick to disparaging the schools and not each other?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 09, 2007, 01:32:51 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 09, 2007, 10:56:22 AM
It is interesting to point out that of all the E8 teams Hartwick did the best containing Mr. Canori last season.

They held him to only 3 points on the 1/28/2006 meeting. Canori played 36 minutes that game.

Did you read the part of the article where Canori had to play PG for ten games and was pretty much "lost?" I have a feeling one or both of the Hartwick games took place during that time.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 09, 2007, 09:29:28 PM
Any predictions for this weekend in the empire 8?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 09, 2007, 10:00:47 PM
UC beats oneonta 67-60. Great team game. oneonta's big gun scored 1 point.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 09, 2007, 10:09:49 PM
IC clobbers Elmira 85-61.  No box available yet.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 09, 2007, 11:57:57 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on January 09, 2007, 09:29:28 PM
Any predictions for this weekend in the empire 8?

Alfred will not lose a game this weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 10, 2007, 02:09:14 AM
Agreed about the hazing of rookie posters. It's not needed.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 10, 2007, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 10, 2007, 02:09:14 AM
Agreed about the hazing of rookie posters. It's not needed.

Hazing?  What does that mean? 

Am I not allowed to point out the fact that Hartwick has been completely irrelevant to the E8 championship for the last several years?  Am I not allowed to poke fun at Hartwick fans? 

Aren't we being a bit touchy here?  I didn't insult the guy in any way, unless you consider me saying he was being "unrealistic" if he didn't expect a little bit of heckling for being a Hartwick fan. 

I assume we're all above the age of 6 in here, so maybe we can tone down the nursery school vibe a little bit.

Pat, at what point is he not a "rookie poster" anymore?  10 posts? 50? I just want to know when I can start disagreeing with him.  I hate being labeled a "hazer".
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 10, 2007, 10:16:15 AM
I want to personally thank Pat Coleman for taking a stand on the "hazing" that occurs on this board. My experience here on D3hoops message board has been less then stellar so far. It shouldn't matter what team you support on this board or how well they are doing,etc? Everyone poster on this should be treated on an equal playing field, regarding of team affiliation. At the moment I feel like I am a 2nd class citizen for being a Hartwick supporter. I don't appreciate being vilified

The Empire 8 Conference has a sportsmanship statement in place for its athletes, coaches, administrators, and fans. I think this board needs to work on its sportsmanship as well.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 10, 2007, 10:49:49 AM
I would have to agree with Bamm here, although does that make me a "hazer" through association?

Most people that post on this board get criticized from time to time, I really don't understand what the big problem is.




Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 10, 2007, 10:59:42 AM
Getting back to basketball (and hopefully staying here) -- the oldest in season college hoops tourney starts tonight.  I'll take:

Brockport over Keuka
Geneseo over Roberts
RIT over Fisher (of course)
UR over Naz

The only game that shouldn't be close is the Brockport/Keuka matchup, though you never really know what you'll get with Roberts.  RIT/Fisher and UR/Naz are both playing each other for the second time this season, and both games were close. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 10, 2007, 12:04:53 PM
postup-
grow up and grow a pair.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 10, 2007, 12:07:37 PM
Just saying -- if you ever want to get beyond the handful of regular posters, you might want to be more welcoming to new posters. That's all.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 10, 2007, 12:50:12 PM
pat that is understood,
but for god sakes- the guy might as well be wearing a dress!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 10, 2007, 01:31:35 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 10, 2007, 12:07:37 PM
Just saying -- if you ever want to get beyond the handful of regular posters, you might want to be more welcoming to new posters. That's all.

Pat-Couldn't agree with you more!!

Couple of questions for you and for you to answer:

How many regular posters are on this Empire 8 message board?
How many new posters (like me) have signed up this season so far? How many of them are active? How many are not active?

Just wondering

Anyway to the rest of the board:

BE Loud Be Proud Be Positive....Post Responsibly
-Post for YOUR team, not against opponents and their fans
-Don't get personal in your posts about other players, coaches, fans, or officials
-No intimidating, vilifying, harassing other posters or teams
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 10, 2007, 02:08:00 PM
postup,
you dont make the rules.
If you cant take a little ribbing like we all do - then you may want to go elsewhere..
It all is in good fun- but who are you to tell us how to post?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 10, 2007, 02:30:54 PM
hello posters...I am new to posting on this board but not to basketball or the empire 8.  I am a fisher fan first and foremost so obviously I will have some biased opinions however but generally usually on the money... Being that this is my first post feel free to haze me...I am a big boy and can take it...anyways...the chase is almost under way...yes the girls played but who cares...moving on...I do not know if there are any favorites this year...I believe fisher and u of r have the best chance since I have some them both play (each other actually)...Bport is alright but I think they went up against a very very inexperienced fisher team...now they would just be going up against an inexperienced fisher team if they make it...I like geneseo to be a sleeper and who knows about roberts...the other teams I feel are just playing for 5-8 spots...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 10, 2007, 02:38:07 PM
Welcome in d.
You wont get hazed....as long as you have a point and dont whine like some others!!

Glad to see another fisher guy on here!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 10, 2007, 02:41:18 PM
QuotePosted by: postup101  Posted on: Today at 01:31:35 pm  
Insert Quote  
Quote from: Pat Coleman on Today at 12:07:37 pm
Just saying -- if you ever want to get beyond the handful of regular posters, you might want to be more welcoming to new posters. That's all.


Pat-Couldn't agree with you more!!

Couple of questions for you and for you to answer:

How many regular posters are on this Empire 8 message board?
How many new posters (like me) have signed up this season so far? How many of them are active? How many are not active?

Just wondering

Anyway to the rest of the board:

BE Loud Be Proud Be Positive....Post Responsibly
-Post for YOUR team, not against opponents and their fans
-Don't get personal in your posts about other players, coaches, fans, or officials
-No intimidating, vilifying, harassing other posters or teams


annnnnnnnnd i just read postups message ...its like someone going to their protective mother for help then standing behind her saying I told you so...Id rather have a board where a lil trash talk goes on, makes everything more exciting...Also getting personal about teams is how this board has always been...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 10, 2007, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 10, 2007, 02:08:00 PM
postup,
you dont make the rules.
If you cant take a little ribbing like we all do - then you may want to go elsewhere..
It all is in good fun- but who are you to tell us how to post?

You are entitled to your own opinion and I am entitled to mine...Fair enough?

I would like to see more posters and more opinions on this message board. This will only happen if they can express themselves freely without getting vilified. Face it, this E8 message board comes across as a closed door fraternity.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 10, 2007, 02:54:19 PM
post- we will agree to disagree.
However- you wont last long if you cant take some ribbing.
I respect that you are a wick fan- and passionate about your team, but a newbie cant come in and force rules on anybody.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on January 10, 2007, 03:25:27 PM
dmcclintock you say Brockport is alright. I respect your opinion but Brockport is not even close to the team that won at fisher. There best player wasnt even playing at that time. Check out  the bport box score from the last couple of games and look at sherrod harris's stats. This kid has all of us port fans very excited. He put up huge numbers against teams that were a combined 18-1. This kid plays d like ricky hollis use to and can blow by just about anyone with his dribble. Whitmore has said he is the best guard we have ever had in our program. The addition  of 6'8" cantrel parish has givin brockport some help for brandon williams also. With that said geneseo is a very good team and brockport better not look past them. I believe they had fisher on the ropes but went scoreless for like 7 minutes to end the game?  Good luck to all  it should be a great tourney.
.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 10, 2007, 03:35:39 PM
Chase really looks good this year!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 10, 2007, 03:55:41 PM
hmmmm...interesting about bport...thanks for the scoop
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on January 10, 2007, 05:06:28 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 10, 2007, 12:04:53 PM
postup-
grow up and grow a pair.

Hey Post up,
This is not a closed fraternity,  As a new kid on the block you have managed to turn all the attention on yourself and deflect from the team you support.  Lighten up and take Fisheralum's advice.

 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 10, 2007, 05:32:51 PM
Agreed bports, Bport is a much better team now then when they beat Fisher in game 1.  Sharod is very good, very quick, excellent passing and handle and good jumper he can rally score.  However, comparing him to hollis is a bad comparison, Sharod cant guard anyone, not that it matters bc bport pressures so much and forces so many turnovers their on the ball D is not noticeable bc of all the traps.  Hollis was a very very good defender and not as good of a scorer. Anyways, the tourny should be a good one, I would love to see a Fisher vs Bport rematch but it is unlikely since there are so many solid teams in the chase, upsets are bound to happen.  Also, shouldn't say this but if anyone saw the bport game idk how you do not know what their weakness is and take advantage of it, but ill just let it go as coaches in the E8 won't ever figure it out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 10, 2007, 06:39:49 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that Postup is MadHawk.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 10, 2007, 06:42:45 PM
Predictions for tonight:

Brockport over Keuka, 81-60.
Geneseo over Roberts, 70-63.
UR over Naz, 69-66.
Fisher over RIT, 65-64 (I'm calling that this one gets a little chippy and we see some T's)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 10, 2007, 06:46:54 PM
As Caz posted last night, IC rolls Elmira in both teams conference opener, 85-61. Bombers lead wire-to-wire, led by Sean Burton's career high 24 points. Frosh Sean Leahy chips in 19 and Bostic has a solid 15 pts, 7 rebs, 6 assists. Frosh center Tom Brown continues his quality play off the bench with 7pts and 8 rebs in 19 mins.

Ithaca hosts Hartwick on Friday night.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 10, 2007, 08:33:34 PM
RIT up 18-13, Bacon with 10 points already.  RIT has missed 5 straight free throws...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 10, 2007, 08:57:37 PM
RIT 38 - 31 at the half

Bacon with 14 at the half.
Beigle has 8 for Fisher

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 10, 2007, 09:24:32 PM
52-50, Fisher.

RIT was up by as much as 9, but Fisher stormed back with Bacon on the bench with 3 fouls. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 10, 2007, 09:28:13 PM
52-51.  Both teams with 6 fouls with 10+ minutes left.  This doesn't bode well for RIT, who is TERRIBLE from the line tonight.   Gethers and Bacon having big games for the Tigers.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 10, 2007, 09:47:01 PM
2:06 to play.

RIT - 65
Fisher - 68

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 10, 2007, 10:01:37 PM
Fisher will end up winning this game, up 4 with seconds left.  That's an incredible 10 straight wins over RIT.  The Tigers have got to be pretty sick of this by now, especially when they are holding second half leads in the last two. 

Like the game earlier this month, it came down to execution in the final 10 minutes and foul shooting.  That will be an ugly looking statistic for the Tigers. 

I'll also repeat my assertion that this is the weakest Fisher team in years, although that is becoming a more difficult point to defend with every win over RIT.  Regardless, I see this year as finally the season where someone else wins the E8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 10, 2007, 10:03:05 PM
Fisher wins...start off slow then do enough to get the w...seems like a recurring theme this year...but a w is a w and im happy for that...last i heard bport was killing keuka ( no surprise) and u of r won...anyword from geneseo and RW
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 10, 2007, 10:27:01 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 10, 2007, 10:01:37 PM
Fisher will end up winning this game, up 4 with seconds left.  That's an incredible 10 straight wins over RIT.  The Tigers have got to be pretty sick of this by now, especially when they are holding second half leads in the last two. 

Like the game earlier this month, it came down to execution in the final 10 minutes and foul shooting.  That will be an ugly looking statistic for the Tigers. 

I'll also repeat my assertion that this is the weakest Fisher team in years, although that is becoming a more difficult point to defend with every win over RIT.  Regardless, I see this year as finally the season where someone else wins the E8.

Okay then, well, what the heck....it might just as well be Alfred. Go Saxons! Undefeated in the Chase!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 10, 2007, 11:50:51 PM
Quote from: dmcclintock on January 10, 2007, 10:03:05 PM
Fisher wins...start off slow then do enough to get the w...seems like a recurring theme this year...but a w is a w and im happy for that...last i heard bport was killing keuka ( no surprise) and u of r won...anyword from geneseo and RW

Geneseo won it in double-OT.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 11, 2007, 07:45:20 AM
Good win for Fisher-keep it going!
They seem to need to get out of the flatness to start the game.
Anybody that has seen the trend- what gives?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 11, 2007, 08:25:38 AM
It's not that FIsher is starting out flat -- it's that they aren't as good and they aren't overwhelming opponents from the get-go.  They are executing very well in the last 10 minutes of games, getting open shots and hitting them. 

Mueller, Newman, and McKeever hit big shots last night as the Cardinals shot 60% in the second half.  RIT shot 10-24 from the foul line, and 39% in the second half.  2-15 from behind the arc.  That's the difference.    Not the greatest night from Zeinfeld, who finished 0-6, 0-5 from 3, and 0 points.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 11, 2007, 08:32:33 AM
So who is next?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 11, 2007, 10:24:59 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 11, 2007, 08:32:33 AM
So who is next?

UR. Let's see if Fisher has what it takes to beat them twice in one year. By the way, to all the McSweeney lovers out there, Bacon takes Round 2 of their matchup. Rubber match at Fisher later this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 11, 2007, 10:28:42 AM
I am glad to see that the Chase is overwhelming the conversations on this board. Unfortunately, I haven't read every post yet. Hopefully, the posts are positive and non vilifying.

Anyway, as a Hartwick fan I am getting excited for the Ithaca game tomorrow. I think the Hawks have the opportunity to make a statement tomorrow night in Ithaca. Last week, the opportunity was missed to knock off Utica due to the suspensions. Ithaca will be tough and physical, but I think the game is winnable for the Hawks.

The Carson/Cocozziello domination era in the Empire 8 will officially begin tomorrow night.

######

BE Loud Be Proud Be Positive....Post Responsibly
-Post for YOUR team, not against opponents and their fans
-Don't get personal in your posts about other players, coaches, fans, or officials
-No intimidating, vilifying, harassing other posters or teams

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 11, 2007, 10:34:39 AM
oh brother.
I thought you would have lightened up on the post rule thing by now!.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 11, 2007, 10:36:28 AM
I repeat, there is NO DOUBT in my mind that Postup is MadHawk. I can tell by how petty he is and how unrealistic he is. Yeah, the Hawks MIGHT come into Ithaca and beat the Bombers. C'mon. Bombers by double-digits.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 11, 2007, 10:43:48 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 11, 2007, 10:36:28 AM
I repeat, there is NO DOUBT in my mind that Postup is MadHawk. I can tell by how petty he is and how unrealistic he is. Yeah, the Hawks MIGHT come into Ithaca and beat the Bombers. C'mon. Bombers by double-digits.

Dude, I admire your enthusiasm for Ithaca athletics. However, Ithaca has been known to lose at times.

I AM NOT MADHAWK. Please respect that, as I am respecting your  thoughts and opinions. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 11, 2007, 11:10:49 AM
How are you respecting anybody by telling them how to act?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 11, 2007, 11:30:34 AM
Quote from: postup101 on January 11, 2007, 10:28:42 AM
I am glad to see that the Chase is overwhelming the conversations on this board. Unfortunately, I haven't read every post yet. Hopefully, the posts are positive and non vilifying.

Anyway, as a Hartwick fan I am getting excited for the Ithaca game tomorrow. I think the Hawks have the opportunity to make a statement tomorrow night in Ithaca. Last week, the opportunity was missed to knock off Utica due to the suspensions. Ithaca will be tough and physical, but I think the game is winnable for the Hawks.

The Carson/Cocozziello domination era in the Empire 8 will officially begin tomorrow night.

######

BE Loud Be Proud Be Positive....Post Responsibly
-Post for YOUR team, not against opponents and their fans
-Don't get personal in your posts about other players, coaches, fans, or officials
-No intimidating, vilifying, harassing other posters or teams




These are all very good rules that the AU Pep Band, at Pep's insistence, abides by at AU football games. Pep's a proponent of said principles while posting on E8 Post Patterns and Posting Up.

Pep prefers to prevent protagonism by preaching no particular posting principles to Posting Up pals. Pretty petty. Perhaps posting as a proponent of prohibiting preaching of posting principles presents Pep as a Post Up protagonist. Positively. Pep prefers promoting positive posts positively. Plus K to all P-popping posters.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 11, 2007, 12:01:41 PM
RIT has held second half leads in several of those last 10 games vs. Fisher and at this point it has to be more mental than anything. I can recall a game @Fisher a couple years ago when RIT had as much as a 10 point lead before losing it in the last 10 minutes of the game. I'm actually glad I wasn't there because it's frustrating enough to read about it here, 10-24 from the FT line? That's just inexcusable.

If the second half execution doesn't improve going forward for RIT it's going to be a long conference season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 11, 2007, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on January 11, 2007, 12:01:41 PM
RIT has held second half leads in several of those last 10 games vs. Fisher and at this point it has to be more mental than anything. I can recall a game @Fisher a couple years ago when RIT had as much as a 10 point lead before losing it in the last 10 minutes of the game. I'm actually glad I wasn't there because it's frustrating enough to read about it here, 10-24 from the FT line? That's just inexcusable.

If the second half execution doesn't improve going forward for RIT it's going to be a long conference season.

And that wasn't even the worst FT shooting night in the nation last night! Tulane shot 10-25 from the line in their OT loss to Rice last night. That includes a Green Wave player missing two in the waning seconds that allowed the game to go to OT. Those had to be the two worst FT shooting performances in the nation last night.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 11, 2007, 12:11:41 PM
+k for pep.
Very well done!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 11, 2007, 02:42:51 PM
GoBombers,

McSweeney was out almost the whole first half and played limited minutes in the second half due to foul trouble.  Yes some of it can be attributed to bacon post moves but unlikely as most of the fouls were off guard penetration early on (this is when bacon did most of his damage). 

Predictions

UofR Vs Fisher  5.5  (Prove me wrong Fisher)
Bport Vs Geneseo 7.5 (should be a great test on how good this Bport team really is and if they can keep this up on a consistent basis)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 11, 2007, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: rjcarter8 on January 09, 2007, 12:31:54 PM
I'm going to lead this off by saying I'm not a Hartwick fan, just an upstate DIII hoops fan, but I have to agree with postup on this.

While he was misguided on his Coco/Carson being the best duo in the league — they might be in the top five (towards the bottom) — his posts are nowhere near the garbage MadHawk threw out last year.

I agree that Hartwick will still be made fun until they can beat someone respectable in the league, but the personal shots should cease until postup throws out way more absurd comments than his Coco/Carson one.

As for shots at me, I'm fine with that, having no allegiance to any E8 teams myself. I just think it's time to focus on the hoops not on the posters. I enjoy reading — and occasionally contributing to — the banter about the teams and their coaches, but the personal crap is a bit juvenile for my taste. Why don't we stick to disparaging the schools and not each other?

I apologize to the rest of the board for defending postup. My post was simply meant to focus on the teams, not the posters. But clearly, postup didn't realize that also meant he should stop antagonizing the other posters.

Pat was right when he said hazing of new posters should ease up, but postup's continuing to speak out about the antagonism is dumb. Now that he's taken things to a personal level -- including trying to bring forward guidelines for posting ?!?!? -- I think he's fair game and no longer qualifies for rookie status.

I agree with all of you who said he needs to grow up.

Postup, why couldn't you just leave well enough alone. By posting with thanks for those who came to your defense, you simply drew more attention to yourself. Maybe you really are MadHawk, he didn't think before he posted either.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 11, 2007, 03:15:53 PM
FisherDynasty -- I'm going to have to go ahead and use the facts to prove your excuse ("played limited minutes in the second half due to foul trouble") for McSweeney completely false.

McSweeney finished with exactly 2 personal fouls. 

You might be confused, I guess.  Bacon picked up his 2nd foul with about 6 minutes left in the 1st, and he sat down.  And he picked up his third very early in the second and had to sit again.  So, yes, one of the players was limited by foul trouble in the second half, but it wasn't the one you mentioned.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: d3lifer on January 11, 2007, 03:56:12 PM
My Predictions for this weekend in the Empire 8:

Friday-
Hartwick  at Ithaca---Ithaca by 9
Utica  at Elmira---Utica by 26

Saturday-
Hartwick  at Elmira---Hartwick by 16   
Utica  at Ithaca---Utica by 7

Not too many surprises this weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 11, 2007, 04:25:51 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 11, 2007, 11:10:49 AM
How are you respecting anybody by telling them how to act?

Good Question

Posting on D3hoops.com is a privelege, not a right! In the Terms and Conditions Pat has clearly stated that harrassing and villifying other posters is strictly prohibited. Pat has intended for this board to be a vehicle for discussion for ALL Empire 8 teams/fans, not just the socially acceptable teams.

As a result of being villified, harrassed, and mocked in the past week or so I have no other choice but to call for affirmative action here on d3hoops. The life and blood of D3hoops.com lies in the hands of new fans. There is no evidence to me that there has been any significant new growth of d3hoops.com message boards.
I am here to grow d3hoops.com, not to see it fail.

####
BE Loud Be Proud Be Positive....Post Responsibly
-Post for YOUR team, not against opponents and their fans
-Don't get personal in your posts about other players, coaches, fans, or officials
-No intimidating, vilifying, harassing other posters or teams


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 11, 2007, 05:24:02 PM
I've stayed out of the rant on post up either making fun, sticking up for or even responding but I can't take it anymore.  Post up stop being a wuss, everyone else stop explaining yourselfs, and ignore his rants unless there is basketball dialogue, if this keeps up im leaving the boards it is very annoying.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 11, 2007, 06:12:36 PM
well...I took in the Fisher/RIT game last night and I have a few thoughts...

RIT is not as bad as their record would indicate...If their starting big men get into foul trouble then they are in trouble. Fisher played a bad first half (missed a lot of shots and did not rebound), but played much better in the 2nd to come back and win. I also thought that Fisher's guards played well last night. Mueller went for 20 and the freshman, Newman I think, was very impressive. I think that may be the combo at guard that Fisher can start to rely on down the stretch.

I like Hartwick over Elmira this weekend.
Utica over Elmira as well.
I will take Ithaca over Hartwick, and Utica this weekend as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 11, 2007, 09:31:26 PM
After the past few days of posts it seems like the best thing to do is for everyone to go about their business as if postup101 wasn't posting anything on the board.

Postup, you keep stating your "rules" but in 75% of your posts you are trying to give others an etiquette lesson.
What is the point of a board like this if there isn't any disagreement or debate? People here follow and root for different teams and as a result there will be some disagreement.


A great example of this from awhile back was the discussion about the all-time E8 team. Many people had different opinions and voiced them accordingly. In order to debate and discuss picks people would point out the negative aspects of some of the "nominees". If we went by your rules that wouldn't be allowed, and that would have been unfortunate because that was a great conversation.

Furthermore, what exactly are the "socially acceptable" teams? With the exception of Elmira, there are posters here that support every other team in the league yet you're the only one hear that has a problem of what is discussed.

You're brought this all upon yourself Postup. And by criticizing everyone else on their posting habits you're violating your own "rules" because you are harrassing other posters in doing so as well as getting personal with other fans.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 11, 2007, 10:40:46 PM
Well stated Tigerfan...

I think the best thing is to just continue the conversation that this board has had long before postup was ever an issue.

So, on to basketball. Now that most of the out of conference schedule is over for most teams. How about some predictions/assesments of the league before the conference schedule gets fully rolling.

Here is how I have it:
1) Fisher (They have impressed me so far, especially finding a way to win so many close games that could beneficial)
2) Utica (Still a very solid team, but they have looked a little bit more human in the past few weeks...obviously ray bryant may help that)
3)Ithaca (usually a team pulling for 4th but I think they may be just a cut above this year)
4) Naz (starting to run out of options for the E8 tourny)
5) RIT (better than they have looked so far but not enough this year)
6) Hartwick (climbing out of the cellar for a year)
7) Alfred (big win against RIT on the road could get them to 6th)
8 ) Elmira (we all know the story)

Not much different than early in the season. That is my shot at it...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 12, 2007, 12:11:01 AM
Quote from: postup101 on January 11, 2007, 04:25:51 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 11, 2007, 11:10:49 AM
How are you respecting anybody by telling them how to act?

Good Question

Posting on D3hoops.com is a privelege, not a right! In the Terms and Conditions Pat has clearly stated that harrassing and villifying other posters is strictly prohibited. Pat has intended for this board to be a vehicle for discussion for ALL Empire 8 teams/fans, not just the socially acceptable teams.

As a result of being villified, harrassed, and mocked in the past week or so I have no other choice but to call for affirmative action here on d3hoops. The life and blood of D3hoops.com lies in the hands of new fans. There is no evidence to me that there has been any significant new growth of d3hoops.com message boards.
I am here to grow d3hoops.com, not to see it fail.

####
BE Loud Be Proud Be Positive....Post Responsibly
-Post for YOUR team, not against opponents and their fans
-Don't get personal in your posts about other players, coaches, fans, or officials
-No intimidating, vilifying, harassing other posters or teams




That is nice and all, but I set the rules. Individual users do not have the authority to set additional rules above and beyond them.

I have no problem, for example, with someone posting about other teams. Hard to have a dialogue if you can only talk about one team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 12, 2007, 12:27:25 AM
On top of what Pat said, I don't think anyone has been that rough on Postup, beyond a few people calling him unrealistic. At this time, it is our opinion that Hartwick still is a year or two away from being a serious contender in this league. We are not taking personal shots at you, postup, just saying that your opinions are a bit, um, ambitious.

Also, the reason I think you sound very much like MadHawk (and only Pat knows the truth, based on his IP address), is that you go on these long rants (just as MadHawk did) focusing on almost anything besides basketball and trying to get other posters kicked out or reprimanded. In addition, you use many cliches and what some may consider "corny" lines.

I am aware that Ithaca "occasionally loses" games. In fact, they usually lose a good amount of games each season. With that said, Ithaca will beat Hartwick this weekend.

I'm off to Vegas for the weekend. I hope everyone has a good one and good luck to the E8 teams in the Chase.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 12, 2007, 08:02:22 AM
Another weekend of basketball....Alfred will NOT be beat!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 12, 2007, 08:27:18 AM
Geez louise postup-
Now ya got dad mad....
Well done...
He's going to turn the bus right around and go home..... :P


Anyway- on to bball-what holds for Fisher after chase?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 12, 2007, 09:18:56 AM
In the Chase tonight I'll take UR over Fisher and Brockport over Geneseo.  Brockport over UR tomorrow night.

In the loser's bracket, RIT takes on Naz.  Like Fisher's recent ownership of the Tigers, RIT has beaten Naz eight straight times.  Naz and RIT are finishing somewhere between 3-5 in the E8 standings, and even though this isn't a "conference" game, it will shed a little light on how good Naz has gotten and how high they might be able to climb.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 12, 2007, 09:44:54 AM
Those games really could go either way.
Hoping for a Fisher win, but the way chase goes- they will be tight-nothing would surprise me!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 12, 2007, 11:54:33 AM
How do they select teams for participation in this annual Chase Tournament?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 12, 2007, 11:59:10 AM
Wasnt it set in stone when they set up the tourney way back when?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 12, 2007, 12:17:45 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 12, 2007, 11:59:10 AM
Wasnt it set in stone when they set up the tourney way back when?

I don't believe it was, at least not entirely. Obviously they wanted to get the Rochester area schools in the tourney but Keuka wasn't an original member. I believe Hobart participated in the Chase up until a few years back.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 12, 2007, 01:22:03 PM
could be- i dont know either.....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 12, 2007, 05:31:41 PM
I've always thought Hobart would be a much better fit than Keuka for the Chase tourney myself.

Tonight in E8 league games Utica will whip Elmira...since it would apparently be mean and hurt certain people's feelings to say Ithaca will beat Hartwick like a rented mule, I'll just point out that Wick will come in second place in tonight's basketball contest between two groups of unique little snowflakes and that the Hawks should still feel good about that because each of them is special in his own way.

RIT has already beaten Naz 82-76 in the Chase consolation round...I'm gonna go out on a limb and pick Fisher to beat UR for a second time but fall again to Brockport in the title game.

On Saturday the UC-IC winner will be determined by the presence (or lack thereof) of Ray Bryant.  Hartwick will be glad to see an Elmira team that very closely resembles one of the little sisters of the poor they've been playing in OOC games and pick up its first E8 win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 12, 2007, 05:32:52 PM
In afternoon Chase action, RIT knocks off Naz, 82-76. Balanced scoring from both sides as RIT has four players in double figures ( Bacon (18), Gethers (15), Zeinfeld (14), Hampton (14) ) and Naz has five in double-figures (Canori (17), Smith (14), C. McAdam (13), DeHimer (11), Higdon (10) ).

The difference in the game: bench scoring (RIT outscored Naz, 36-11).

Looks like Naz has been sliding since their hot start against Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 12, 2007, 05:45:02 PM
Predictions for this weekend's games:

Chase Semis
UR over Fisher, 64-60 (Fisher can't have a bad half against a team like UR...revenge will be on the minds of the Yellow Jackets)

Brockport over Geneseo, 77-66.

Chase Consolation Game

Fisher over Geneseo, 69-61.

Chase Championship game

Brockport over UR, 70-65.

Empire 8 action

Ithaca over Hartwick, 72-57.
Utica over Elmira, 79-53.

Hartwick over Elmira, 75-64.
Ithaca over Utica, 71-68.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on January 12, 2007, 10:27:33 PM
ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND

UR stomps on Fisher by 29....82-53, OUCH...

Chmieleoaoaowowic with 20, Brackney and Milbrand both with 10 each...even the random freshmen get some points on fisher...

Fisher, nobody in double figures...


and fisher will have to bounceback from this lasssssssssshing tomorrow vs. Bport or Geneseo...


UR will win this tourney
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 12, 2007, 10:53:28 PM
Sounds like Fisher was due for a game like this, not so much the margin but a sound loss.
Hard for me to say since I'm not in the Rochester area anymore, and although I love the Chase tourney, I'll trade it for games at the Dean Dome any day.

In other news, Geneseo over Brockport by 11, seems like Geneseo has been an afterthought the last couple of years but they are bringing it together this year.
The Fisher/Brockport rematch, although not in the championship as many would expect, should be interesting.

Also, Utica over Elmira as expected.

And oh yeah, Ithaca beats up on Hartwick 74-59, I can't wait for the aftermath of this one on the board.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 12, 2007, 11:13:32 PM
Jeff Bostic had 15 for the Bombers while freshman Tom Brown  had his best game so far with 13 points and 12 rebounds. 

That dynamic duo sure to dominate the Empire 8 from now until the end of time combined for just 22 points: 12 for Cory Carson and 10 for Jan Coocooforcocoapuffs.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 13, 2007, 11:34:08 AM
well that was  tough one for Fisher last night. But, you just can't play the way they have been playing in the first half against good teams. They I agree that they were kind of due for a loss. And, they will have to find a way to forget it quickly because B-port is no joke.

It can be tough to bounce back after something like last night, but hopefully playing the very next day will be the best thing for them. If Fisher is to lose and drop to 10-3 that puts a lot of pressure on their conference schedule to secure an at large bid to the tourny if they get upset in the E8 championship.
they could probably afford to lose maybe 2 or 3 more games all year to lock something up. that is a good conference run.

also, I have gone 2-0 on my E8 predictions this weekend, I just need Ithaca to beat Utica to complete the weekend sweep. 

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 13, 2007, 12:17:19 PM
Ouch- tough loss for Fisher- i almost didnt believe the score!
A loss ins understandable- but to get blown out---wow-hope they can rebound from it!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 13, 2007, 12:43:33 PM
Somone fill me in on the fisher loss who was there...from the looks of it their big men got in foul trouble early and played sloppy...of course it seems everyone played sloppy with a 29 point loss but fill me in...what happened...also would like to know what happened to bport...I knew geneseo was a good team but i was thinking bport had this one ...also ignore the new topic area cuz that was a mistake...damn rookie poster
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on January 13, 2007, 05:34:35 PM
Fisher beat Brockport 85-81. Looks like it was a good one.

Utica crushing Ithaca....up by 29 with about 15 left. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 13, 2007, 06:19:02 PM
Nice bounceback win for Fisher...

Now onto the conference scedule.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 13, 2007, 06:27:50 PM
Qual. win for the alma mater- good rebound!


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 13, 2007, 07:31:03 PM
Utica drubs Ithaca 85-63.  Unfortunately for IC, Ray Bryant did indeed suit up and had 18 and 11, including three for three from beyond the arc.  The real story though was Doug Herring going off for 24 points, six steals and four assists.  Brian Collier chips in 15 and Jack Lighthall 10.  For the Bombers, Jeff Bostic continued his strong play with 18 points off the bench.  Sean Leahy had 11.  Utica led practically from beginning to end and was up as many as 35 in the second half.

I guess I gave Hartwick too much credit, Elmira leads throughout and cruises past the Hawks 74-62.  Jason Brown with 17 for EC, Carson had 22 and Cocosomething 15 for 'Wick, which falls into last place.

Next E8 games are Tuesday night when IC visits SUNY Morrisville and Elmira hosts Hobart.  SJF-Utica next Saturday should be a doozy.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 13, 2007, 09:53:50 PM
I would just like to point out that Hartwick is now 0-3 in E8 play, and 7-7 overall. That's a far cry from starting out 7-2 this season. Not only has Hartwick lost 5 straight, the last one, today, was a crushing defeat against Elmira, 74-62. Not that a 12-point loss is crushing, it's losing to Elmira that is.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 13, 2007, 10:58:15 PM
AU men swimmers and divers handily defeated the defending 2006 NYS Swim Champs Hartwick Hawks today, 136-103, at Lebohner Pool at Alfred University. AU remains undefeated on the season with meets remaining at LeMoyne Jan. 20 and at St. Lawrence Jan. 28.

Congrats to the SaxonSwimmers and Coach Striker!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 13, 2007, 11:53:27 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 13, 2007, 10:58:15 PM
AU men swimmers and divers handily defeated the defending 2006 NYS Swim Champs Hartwick Hawks today, 136-103, at Lebohner Pool at Alfred University. AU remains undefeated on the season with meets remaining at LeMoyne Jan. 20 and at St. Lawrence Jan. 28.

Congrats to the SaxonSwimmers and Coach Striker!


Well that is big news...

However, let us focus on Elmira beating Hartwick. It was on the road, but having said that, they were playing Elmira...I had thought that Hartwick may be a up and comming team, that would compete this year, but maybe not.

Fisher nice bounce back win, and a solid victory over a good Brockport team. Should be a good way to jump into the conference full time. Big showdown next weekend. Fisher vs. Utica. Can't wait
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 14, 2007, 02:58:34 AM
AUPepBand, Like we give a F%^# about the Swimmers and divers on this board are you joking. jeezuz.

Anyyyywayys, still trying to get over the weirdness of this board....  Sjfcards your right that is a huge win over bport for fisher, 11-2 or 10-2 whichever is fantastic for the schedule fisher has played.  Give them 1-2 losses in league play and there gettin an automatic bid, hell even 3 losses in league play and there gettin one.  No matter the outcome, so far this is a successful season for Fisher thus far.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 14, 2007, 10:18:52 AM
Hmmm,
Where is my bud postup?
Im not going to rip him on the Elmira loss...just needle!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 14, 2007, 05:27:24 PM
I have to hand it to Elmira. They played like pitballs last evening against a stunned Hartwick squad. I was impressed to see just how much energy they brought to the court. The crowd and atmosphere definately helped. Elmira might not be the most talented team, but they without a doubt have a tremednous amout of heart, and more importantly they seem to have bought into Chris Connolly's system of play. Last night's win is a huge win for Elmira and the basketball team.

As for Hartwick, they continue to struggle. I don't think it is because of lack talent, but rather an internal chemistry issue. I must admit I am a little concerned and worried, but I have not lost faith. While the Hawks have dug themselves a hole, I am still holding hope that they will make a run at the E8 Tourney.

Next Weekend, the Hawks will be under dogs against Fisher and Naz. They will need to snap out of the funk they are in and dig deep. If they play like they did before the holiday break, they will have a fighting chance. If not, they will burried again.

This week is essentially the Hawks season and last chance to start climbing out the hole they are in. Fortunately, they are home!



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 14, 2007, 05:33:16 PM
I agree postup I think this is a huge weekend for Wick, unfortunatley they are playing Fisher.
Should be a great weekend in the E8, with Fisher/Utica and some other good games.
Any early predictions?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 14, 2007, 11:48:50 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on January 13, 2007, 11:53:27 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 13, 2007, 10:58:15 PM
AU men swimmers and divers handily defeated the defending 2006 NYS Swim Champs Hartwick Hawks today, 136-103, at Lebohner Pool at Alfred University. AU remains undefeated on the season with meets remaining at LeMoyne Jan. 20 and at St. Lawrence Jan. 28.

Congrats to the SaxonSwimmers and Coach Striker!


Well that is big news...

However, let us focus on Elmira beating Hartwick. It was on the road, but having said that, they were playing Elmira...I had thought that Hartwick may be a up and comming team, that would compete this year, but maybe not.

Fisher nice bounce back win, and a solid victory over a good Brockport team. Should be a good way to jump into the conference full time. Big showdown next weekend. Fisher vs. Utica. Can't wait

Oops, sorry sjfcards...this is NOT a swimming and diving board. But, since there is no swimming and diving board and Hartwick happened to be "in the news," Pep thought the AU swim win over the Hawks' defending state champs was worthy of at least a post. Does St. John Fisher College have a pool? No swimming teams?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 15, 2007, 12:06:56 AM
Actually, thanks for mentioning it, AUPepBand, I've always thought it would be fun to do one of your signature rambling off-topic anecdotes.

I actually used to sit around and watch IC swim meets when I was an undergrad, mostly to warm up in the superheated natatorium on yet another frigid upstate witner day or to kill time after class before a Bomber hoops doubleheader directly across the hallway in the Bulb.  Usually left quickly as the distance events bored me and I couldn't take all the excessive shouting.  "GO, GO, STROKE, STROKE!!!" I'm thinking "DUDE, THEIR HEADS ARE UNDERWATER, THEY CAN'T HEAR YOU!!"  Later in life for work, I found myself spending a weekend at a college conference championship swimming event.  Thought I was gonna go deaf.  Not a tremendous spectator sport, it turns out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 15, 2007, 12:29:08 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 14, 2007, 11:48:50 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on January 13, 2007, 11:53:27 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 13, 2007, 10:58:15 PM
AU men swimmers and divers handily defeated the defending 2006 NYS Swim Champs Hartwick Hawks today, 136-103, at Lebohner Pool at Alfred University. AU remains undefeated on the season with meets remaining at LeMoyne Jan. 20 and at St. Lawrence Jan. 28.

Congrats to the SaxonSwimmers and Coach Striker!


Well that is big news...

However, let us focus on Elmira beating Hartwick. It was on the road, but having said that, they were playing Elmira...I had thought that Hartwick may be a up and comming team, that would compete this year, but maybe not.

Fisher nice bounce back win, and a solid victory over a good Brockport team. Should be a good way to jump into the conference full time. Big showdown next weekend. Fisher vs. Utica. Can't wait

Oops, sorry sjfcards...this is NOT a swimming and diving board. But, since there is no swimming and diving board and Hartwick happened to be "in the news," Pep thought the AU swim win over the Hawks' defending state champs was worthy of at least a post. Does St. John Fisher College have a pool? No swimming teams?

We do not have a pool, or a swim team AU...Had a friend who was "illegially recruited" to Swim at Hartwick...He ended up at American University, I just find it funny to hear about the dark side of division III swimming.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 15, 2007, 09:19:55 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 15, 2007, 12:06:56 AM
Actually, thanks for mentioning it, AUPepBand, I've always thought it would be fun to do one of your signature rambling off-topic anecdotes.

I actually used to sit around and watch IC swim meets when I was an undergrad, mostly to warm up in the superheated natatorium on yet another frigid upstate witner day or to kill time after class before a Bomber hoops doubleheader directly across the hallway in the Bulb.  Usually left quickly as the distance events bored me and I couldn't take all the excessive shouting.  "GO, GO, STROKE, STROKE!!!" I'm thinking "DUDE, THEIR HEADS ARE UNDERWATER, THEY CAN'T HEAR YOU!!"  Later in life for work, I found myself spending a weekend at a college conference championship swimming event.  Thought I was gonna go deaf.  Not a tremendous spectator sport, it turns out.

Pep would compare swim meets to baseball. There are a few moments of excitement when one jumps from his seat (a solid connection of bat and ball in a crucial situation...and the final relay with the meet on the line). As it were, AU's win was anti-climactic as the Saxons easily prevailed. A few of the 54 1-meter dives and a few of the 54 3-meter dives had Pep grimacing...and wondering why one would want to enter the water flat on one's back. Pep, however, not one to become easily bored, found entertainment in giving his score for each dive....and found that Pep is well qualified to be a diving judge, even if Pep doesn't know the difference between a nip and a tuck.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 15, 2007, 09:20:53 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 15, 2007, 12:06:56 AM
Actually, thanks for mentioning it, AUPepBand, I've always thought it would be fun to do one of your signature rambling off-topic anecdotes.

Caz: Pep doesn't have any idea what you are talking about.  ;)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 15, 2007, 04:29:32 PM
Trying to spark some conversation here...

Who does everyone think is the best player in the E8 so far this year. Ray Bryant has been good, but has missed some time. From what I have seen I would have to say Canori from Naz has been the best so far. I have not seen all the teams so far this year, so I do not have the most educated opinion.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 15, 2007, 07:43:36 PM
Best players in my opinion Going from the players I would want the most on my team.

1) Ray Bryant
2) Dan Mcsweeney
3) Doug Herrrig
4) Joe Canori
5) Tim Bacon
6) Justin Beigal
7) Coco Crisp
8) PG for Ithaca
9) Barret Zeinfeld
10) Dan Mueller
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 15, 2007, 07:47:54 PM
Hmmmm...interesting list however how can you have ray bryant over danny mac or justin beigl...bryant is good do not get me wrong however he has never beaten fisher and to my recollection has not really played well against them...Yes i know when it is all said and done he might have some decent numbers but the games i watched last year he didnt do anything until the game was pretty much decided...i think the jury should be out on him until his utica team can actually win a game against fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 15, 2007, 08:16:29 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 15, 2007, 07:43:36 PM
Best players in my opinion Going from the players I would want the most on my team.

1) Ray Bryant
2) Dan Mcsweeney
3) Doug Herrrig
4) Joe Canori
5) Tim Bacon
6) Justin Beigal
7) Coco Crisp
8) PG for Ithaca
9) Barret Zeinfeld
10) Dan Mueller

Nice list dynasty,
I agree with most of your top 5, perhaps not the order. I think if you use your criteria of who you most want on your team it is pretty solid. Ray Bryant probably has the most physical ability in the league, Canori probably the best shooter, Mcsweeny the best big man...interesting to see Dan Mueller on the list. not bad for the question mark area for the fisher team. He has played very well this last two weeks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 15, 2007, 09:48:48 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 15, 2007, 07:43:36 PM
Best players in my opinion Going from the players I would want the most on my team.

1) Ray Bryant
2) Dan Mcsweeney
3) Doug Herrrig
4) Joe Canori
5) Tim Bacon
6) Justin Beigal
7) Coco Crisp
8) PG for Ithaca
9) Barret Zeinfeld
10) Dan Mueller

McSweeney? 2nd? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. He's pretty good, but let's get serious.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 15, 2007, 10:02:17 PM
I agree 2nd may be a little high for Mcsweeny, but he is for sure one of the top 5 players in the league. And, there is not a team in the Empire 8 that would not want him as their big man.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 15, 2007, 10:14:19 PM
I kind of agree Dmc, but mcsweeney has not played well as of late, so I put bryant above him.  If i were putting together a starting 5 this would be the line up..

PG. Doug Herrig
SG. Joe Canori
Sf. Ray Ray (league lacks this position)
Pf. Bacon/Beigal
C. Mcsweeney

This line-up could almost beat Fisher the last few years.  haha Sorry had to say it to piss people off.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 16, 2007, 08:34:04 AM
McSweeney is an above average big man in a conference that lacks a lot of size.  Do you remember what happened to Fisher's bigs against Potsdam a couple of years ago?  Just because he "might" be the best center in the league does not make him one of the best five players. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2007, 10:05:29 AM
Bamm point taken about the lack of size in the E8 and overall lack of talent at the center position.  However, the point about potsdam, Mcsweeney was a sophmore in that game, there is a huge difference between sophmore and senior year, especially a player that was newer to the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 16, 2007, 10:22:53 AM
Good call, but I would counter that by saying the makeup of the E8 hasn't changed much since then.  McSweeney was a good player in '04/'05 in a league that lacked size.  Nothing has changed in two years.  He puts up decent numbers in league play because he's literally the biggest guy in the league.

It just seems that whenever Fisher plays a team with guys that are as tall and strong as him (Potsdam, UR) he's pretty much shut down.

He also always struggled against the Tigers 6'10" Jesse Foote.  Fisher always replaced him with Zahn, who hit 16 footers and forced Foote out of the paint.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2007, 10:28:14 AM
Yeah id have to say he plays worse in the league from past years.  Last year and this year look at stats against UofR plus 20 both games, Geneseo this year with good size, plus 20, he also put up good numbers in limited minutes against an all american big man for York PA.   But again point taken, Zahn did replace mcsweeney and offer more of a scoring threat.  The rest of the year should help with this arguement we'll see how he does against the rest of the E8, only this year teams are keying on him and beigal. But i can guarantee when he is not in foul trouble and plays 30+ minutes hes going to get 20 pts.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 16, 2007, 10:42:13 AM
Quote from: dmcclintock on January 15, 2007, 07:47:54 PM
Hmmmm...interesting list however how can you have ray bryant over danny mac or justin beigl...bryant is good do not get me wrong however he has never beaten fisher and to my recollection has not really played well against them...Yes i know when it is all said and done he might have some decent numbers but the games i watched last year he didnt do anything until the game was pretty much decided...i think the jury should be out on him until his utica team can actually win a game against fisher

Just because someone may be the best player, doesn't mean he can singlehandedly beat a team. You say he hasn't done much against Fisher, but hasn't Fisher had a more talented team overall than Utica. If Fisher has been able to key on Bryant, effectively shutting him down, and the other guys didn't step up then Fisher should win the game.

I know the argument will be out there that the best players find ways to step up in key situations and big games, but that isn't always the case.

To hold a guy back because he hasn't done anything against one team in the league -- albeit the best team in the league in the last few years -- is kind of crazy in my opinion.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2007, 10:54:38 AM
Idk RJ, I usually think like that too, I hate when people hold someone down bc of one acheilies heal or whatever.  But, in this situation where the E8 has been  a pretty bad league besides Utica & Fisher and sometimes RIT, when you play bad against the only solid team on your schedule 4 times it should be held against you.  Who cant drop 20 and 10 against hartwick and utica night in and night out, hell even naz who doesnt play D or ithaca which had lack of height the past few years.  So idk its a tough call, and utica last year had cichon who i think was keyed on just as much if not more than ray bryant. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 16, 2007, 12:34:00 PM
rj...similar to what fisherdynasty said...the E8 has been weak aside for possibly the top two teams every year for the past couple of years...therefore if your number 2 and you are being considered to be the best player than you should have atleast one w against the number one team...Also, sure fisher had talent but herring as a frosh was good...Cichon...in my mind top player throughout his career, and willie lucas is a pretty solid starting lineup that takes a lot of attention away from bryant...plus they had somewhat of a solid bench...Brian Collier is solid....anyways there should have been maybe one victory against the #1 team...hes a good player but until he gets it done atleast once (which he has a good chance of doing this year) hes debatable...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2007, 12:40:22 PM
I could see the argument that Fisher was better and Utica as a team maybe could not have beat them, and if Ray had a very good single effort to make the game close but he did not look much other than a role player in any of the games played against fisher. Therefore, it can be held against him.

Anyways, He is a good player and like dmc said, can overcome that debate this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 16, 2007, 01:46:14 PM
Ray is probably the only player in the league that can play all 5 positions well.

Last year, after Lighthall went out with injury, Utica had exactly zero big men on the roster. Ray was forced to play the 4/5 spot when he is 2/3 man. Of course he didn't have as good a game as he normally would playing center against a team with legit big men. In one of the other games, he picked up 2 quick rochester friendly fouls and was forced to sit almost the entire half.

Whoever said he didn't do much until the games were already decided, none of the games were decided until less than 2 minutes left, so I am not buying it.

That being said, he still managed to score 14, 13, 20, and 19 in the games against fisher, even with all the other scoring options on the team.


He could go for 30 any night, but he is a true team player. There is not a player in the conference even close to him. The coaches know it, and that is why he draws a triple team nearly every time he even starts to go to the hoop this season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2007, 01:54:16 PM
good points, he is very versatile, however most of his points against fisher were when the game was out of hand.  Also, i have not seen him play yet this year. That being said, I still think he is probably the best player in the league, I never said he wasn't.  I kind of just think he is a little over hyped, but maybe not, this year he seems to be doing some serious damage.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ICbombers06 on January 16, 2007, 01:55:03 PM
I also don't see how you can leave Jeff Bostic off the list either...Yes I am an Ithaca fan, but he could be the most athletic player in the conference and is putting up pretty big numbers (13.5 pts and 7.3 boards). Also worth mentioning is that he is second on the Bombers in assists. This is just my opinion curious as to what the other posters feel about this.

Also, will finally get to see them play this weekend as I will be in town.  Interesting to see how they will play.  So far this year they have seemed to take care of business when they should've and vice versa.  This will really test there endurance having two tough games in two days. Obviously winning two would be a big step toward qualifying for the E8 tourney, which is always Mullins goal, but a split is necesary since all three of these teams will most likely be competing for the 3 and 4 seeds.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2007, 02:47:08 PM
Thought about it IC, but dont think he is that yet.  But i have not seen him play yet this year, i thought he wasnt starting tho? Last year i know he came on towards the end but was still a little timid.  Im interested in seeing him play sometime this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 16, 2007, 02:55:28 PM
Quote from: ICbombers06 on January 16, 2007, 01:55:03 PM
I also don't see how you can leave Jeff Bostic off the list either...Yes I am an Ithaca fan, but he could be the most athletic player in the conference and is putting up pretty big numbers (13.5 pts and 7.3 boards). Also worth mentioning is that he is second on the Bombers in assists. This is just my opinion curious as to what the other posters feel about this.

Also, will finally get to see them play this weekend as I will be in town.  Interesting to see how they will play.  So far this year they have seemed to take care of business when they should've and vice versa.  This will really test there endurance having two tough games in two days. Obviously winning two would be a big step toward qualifying for the E8 tourney, which is always Mullins goal, but a split is necesary since all three of these teams will most likely be competing for the 3 and 4 seeds.

Agreed. I've been throwing his name out there whenever the question comes up. He has pretty much the same numbers as the two other, more experienced players in the conference. When you look at how much he's progressed--from a guy who was getting DNP's until about 3/4 of the way through last conference season, to the MVP of the ECAC post-season tournament, to what he did this season even after spending all Fall on the football team and not practicing hoops--it gives IC fans even more hope for the near future. IC has one of the best young cores in Burton, Bostic and Leahy (all sophs), so I hope we see the results very soon.

He's certainly ahead of where Bacon and McSweeney were at this stage of their respective careers. I don't think that's arguable.

Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 16, 2007, 01:46:14 PM

Whoever said he didn't do much until the games were already decided, none of the games were decided until less than 2 minutes left, so I am not buying it.


I think that's a completely erroneous statement. The first game, which was at Utica, was particularly close, but not the other three. In the second game, Utica opened up 5-0 and Fisher responded with twelve straight and led pretty comfortably all the way through. The third game, in the E8 tourney, was a blitz from the beginning and the fourth, in the Sweet 16, wasn't all that close, either. Fisher had huge leads that Utica cut into in the 2nd half, but the result was never, ever in doubt. I really wonder if you Utica guys don't think we're able to read box scores? My favorite was last year when UC beat IC by 10 and Clear came in and said the game "wasn't as close as it looked" when UC was only up 5 with like four minutes to play. C'mon guys.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 16, 2007, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 16, 2007, 02:55:28 PM
Quote from: ICbombers06 on January 16, 2007, 01:55:03 PM
I also don't see how you can leave Jeff Bostic off the list either...Yes I am an Ithaca fan, but he could be the most athletic player in the conference and is putting up pretty big numbers (13.5 pts and 7.3 boards). Also worth mentioning is that he is second on the Bombers in assists. This is just my opinion curious as to what the other posters feel about this.

Also, will finally get to see them play this weekend as I will be in town.  Interesting to see how they will play.  So far this year they have seemed to take care of business when they should've and vice versa.  This will really test there endurance having two tough games in two days. Obviously winning two would be a big step toward qualifying for the E8 tourney, which is always Mullins goal, but a split is necesary since all three of these teams will most likely be competing for the 3 and 4 seeds.

Agreed. I've been throwing his name out there whenever the question comes up. He has pretty much the same numbers as the two other, more experienced players in the conference. When you look at how much he's progressed--from a guy who was getting DNP's until about 3/4 of the way through last conference season, to the MVP of the ECAC post-season tournament, to what he did this season even after spending all Fall on the football team and not practicing hoops--it gives IC fans even more hope for the near future. IC has one of the best young cores in Burton, Bostic and Leahy (all sophs), so I hope we see the results very soon.

He's certainly ahead of where Bacon and McSweeney were at this stage of their respective careers. I don't think that's arguable.

Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 16, 2007, 01:46:14 PM

Whoever said he didn't do much until the games were already decided, none of the games were decided until less than 2 minutes left, so I am not buying it.


I think that's a completely erroneous statement. The first game, which was at Utica, was particularly close, but not the other three. In the second game, Utica opened up 5-0 and Fisher responded with twelve straight and led pretty comfortably all the way through. The third game, in the E8 tourney, was a blitz from the beginning and the fourth, in the Sweet 16, wasn't all that close, either. Fisher had huge leads that Utica cut into in the 2nd half, but the result was never, ever in doubt. I really wonder if you Utica guys don't think we're able to read box scores? My favorite was last year when UC beat IC by 10 and Clear came in and said the game "wasn't as close as it looked" when UC was only up 5 with like four minutes to play. C'mon guys.

Actually being at all 4 games, I have to disagree. Of the 3 that you mentioned were "never in doubt", one was the game where he sat pretty much the entire half. The sweet 16 Utica had the lead with about 13 minutes to go and at the end the gym was rocking with amherst and tufts fans going crazy for Utica because they came back from being down big to having the game still be a toss up with about 2 minutes to go.

I find it hard to believe that you are seriously telling people who were there every step of the way that you know more about how it went from reading the box score.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 16, 2007, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: ICbombers06 on January 16, 2007, 01:55:03 PM
I also don't see how you can leave Jeff Bostic off the list either...Yes I am an Ithaca fan, but he could be the most athletic player in the conference and is putting up pretty big numbers (13.5 pts and 7.3 boards). Also worth mentioning is that he is second on the Bombers in assists. This is just my opinion curious as to what the other posters feel about this.

Also, will finally get to see them play this weekend as I will be in town.  Interesting to see how they will play.  So far this year they have seemed to take care of business when they should've and vice versa.  This will really test there endurance having two tough games in two days. Obviously winning two would be a big step toward qualifying for the E8 tourney, which is always Mullins goal, but a split is necesary since all three of these teams will most likely be competing for the 3 and 4 seeds.


Bostic is a great athlete. Fun to watch.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 16, 2007, 07:31:38 PM
hmmm...utica having the lead with 12 to play...not sure bout that one....i was at the game...and pretty sure fisher pulled up by 20....sure utica may have gotten it down 2 8 or 10 with 2 mins to play but still...game was out of reach for them...the only close game was at utica where they had a legit shot at winning in the final 2 mins...rays a good player and im not taking anything away from him for that...however....he seemed to get his points when utica was down big...we all know its easier to score when the games not on the line as much then when it is....ray would get his points against fisher when his team was down 10 or more and was just trading baskets...that being said....this is a new year and last year was his first year in the E8...he has his work cut out for him but we shall see his true test against fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 16, 2007, 08:39:43 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 15, 2007, 10:14:19 PM
I kind of agree Dmc, but mcsweeney has not played well as of late, so I put bryant above him.  If i were putting together a starting 5 this would be the line up..

PG. Doug Herrig
SG. Joe Canori
Sf. Ray Ray (league lacks this position)
Pf. Bacon/Beigal
C. Mcsweeney

This line-up could almost beat Fisher the last few years.  haha Sorry had to say it to piss people off.

HAHA...good stuff Fisherdynasty. It is a funny line, but seriously you could probably take a all star team for the last 5 years, and put them up against a all star team from Fisher the last 5 years and it would probably be a better game then you would think.

I am pretty sure a team of Sean O'brien, Nick Bennet, Mike Mcgee, Jeff Sydney, and maybe McSweeny could hang with most teams people could put together.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 16, 2007, 11:17:29 PM
Ithaca completes the sweep of D3 newbies Morrisville with the 80-67 win on the road.  Sean Leahy scores career-high 21 points helped by 5 for 9 from distance, Jeff Bostic adds 16.  Sean Burton is third Bomber in double figures with 12.  Two-man team of Adebowale Olasokan (20 pts, 4 assists, 4 steals) and Davon Williams (17 pts, 8 rebounds) leads Mustangs.  IC only up by 3 at the half but steadily pulled away in the second half.

Elmira put up a good fight but fell 68-66 to Hobart tonight at home.  No box score available yet but I'd be interested to see how this one ended.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 16, 2007, 11:45:32 PM
since were talking fisher all star teams

I would say the best fisher teams in the past couple of years

1)05 fisher 28-1 sweet 16
2)06  fisher 26-4 elite 8
3)03 Fisher 21-5 lost to hamilton 1st round
4)04 fisher 22-7 lost to UofR second round
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 17, 2007, 09:21:42 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on January 16, 2007, 08:39:43 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 15, 2007, 10:14:19 PM
I kind of agree Dmc, but mcsweeney has not played well as of late, so I put bryant above him.  If i were putting together a starting 5 this would be the line up..

PG. Doug Herrig
SG. Joe Canori
Sf. Ray Ray (league lacks this position)
Pf. Bacon/Beigal
C. Mcsweeney

This line-up could almost beat Fisher the last few years.  haha Sorry had to say it to piss people off.

HAHA...good stuff Fisherdynasty. It is a funny line, but seriously you could probably take a all star team for the last 5 years, and put them up against a all star team from Fisher the last 5 years and it would probably be a better game then you would think.

I am pretty sure a team of Sean O'brien, Nick Bennet, Mike Mcgee, Jeff Sydney, and maybe McSweeny could hang with most teams people could put together.

Except for Potsdam
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 17, 2007, 11:42:51 AM
ouch!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 17, 2007, 12:39:39 PM
Ouch is right.  But it's still irrelevant since Postdam is not in the E8. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 17, 2007, 01:20:59 PM
No - but after a perfect regular season- that loss hurt!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 17, 2007, 02:08:44 PM
No Sh**
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 17, 2007, 02:33:51 PM
well?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 17, 2007, 02:37:23 PM
so Fisher plays 28 great games and then they let down for 1 game...happened to be the wrong game to let down for...and again I have serious issues with where they hold the tourny games....it automatically gives Amherst or any host a redicolus unfair advantage....for any other fisher fan at that game last year they know how incredibly loud it was at the game...because it was on the amherst campus...choose neutral sites....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 17, 2007, 02:51:19 PM
Hey super- I do agree in theory, but im sure that it would be a pain to implement!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 17, 2007, 02:56:05 PM
not at all...you get a host school and it rotates from year to year...schools need to apply for it and then they implement it... so amherst could have it one year...or you give it to the winner the year before or whatever
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 17, 2007, 02:56:45 PM
Make it so!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 17, 2007, 03:05:54 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 17, 2007, 02:37:23 PM
so Fisher plays 28 great games and then they let down for 1 game...happened to be the wrong game to let down for...and again I have serious issues with where they hold the tourny games....it automatically gives Amherst or any host a redicolus unfair advantage....for any other fisher fan at that game last year they know how incredibly loud it was at the game...because it was on the amherst campus...choose neutral sites....

I'm sure the Rowan football team very much agrees with you, Superman. You know how D3 goes, this is not a surprise to anyone. Neutral sites just aren't going to happen until the very end of tournaments.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 17, 2007, 03:45:07 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 17, 2007, 02:37:23 PM
so Fisher plays 28 great games and then they let down for 1 game...happened to be the wrong game to let down for...and again I have serious issues with where they hold the tourny games....it automatically gives Amherst or any host a redicolus unfair advantage....for any other fisher fan at that game last year they know how incredibly loud it was at the game...because it was on the amherst campus...choose neutral sites....

Would you have had serious issues with this if they chose Fisher as the host for that regional?

In this particular case it didn't do Amherst much good, UR beat them anyway. And for Potsdam/Fisher, technically wasn't it a neutral site game?

And although I agree that Neutral sites would be preferable I doubt it will happen.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 17, 2007, 03:53:49 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 17, 2007, 02:37:23 PM
so Fisher plays 28 great games and then they let down for 1 game...happened to be the wrong game to let down for...and again I have serious issues with where they hold the tourny games....it automatically gives Amherst or any host a redicolus unfair advantage....for any other fisher fan at that game last year they know how incredibly loud it was at the game...because it was on the amherst campus...choose neutral sites....

AU, in its 1981(?) NCAA playoff run, beat Naz on a half-court buzzer beater by Mike Wing in a game played at Potsdam to advance to the East Regional final against the host Bears. AUPepBand and his pops made the trip to Potsdam from Alfred for the final on a Saturday night. Potsdam State's gym seats 3200, there were probably 3402 Potsdam students there and no seating designated for the visitors. Pep had to fight for a nosebleed seat. The Saxons appeared a bit intimidated and got off to a horrendous start...a disappointing end to a tremendous season. Potsdam fan said to Pep, "I can't believe Alfred beat Hartwick (a power at the time). They (Alfred) are terrible." Pep responded, "This is somewhat of an intimidating place to play....our Saxons are much better than they appear."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 17, 2007, 03:56:25 PM
I think that it is different in basketball and football.....because football there is almost an unlimited amount of seating your not gonna sell out...and people are 20-40 yards from the field so their is less of an impact and I'm not refering to 05 I'm refering to 06...I still think a game should not be decided by where it is played....choose a neutral site...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 17, 2007, 04:44:20 PM
Its tough to say, sweet 16 for basketball seems pretty far into it where they could have some neutral games, or if your going to give it to the #1 seed it should go to the right team.  Fisher was 28-0 and didnt host, that is absurd.  Especially when 3 of the teams in the semi's were from NY (2 being from Rochester).  It wasn't about seating capacity either, Amherst might hold a hundred more people then fishers gym, very small.  The following year fisher had to go down and play Amherst was more in the right because Amherst had more losses.  Anyways, that is past talk.  Any early predictions on the Fisher Utica game coming up this wkend?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on January 17, 2007, 05:14:56 PM
Hey Au pep -I haven't seen him play this year yet but I thought you would mention Stein for the 10 best in the league.  Last time I saw him he looked pretty good and that was two years ago. I know that they own a win over RIT and most the guys seem to be comfortable with Bacon and Zeinfeld on the list.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 17, 2007, 06:25:44 PM
Stein is a solid player and a great kid. Given AU's present record, however, Pep is hesitant to single out any Saxons. And, to be perfectly honest, Pep hasn't seen an AU game yet this season. Ryan Clemenson is probably AU's most versatile player and arguably the Saxons' best defender. AU's defensive play will be key to any success this season.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 17, 2007, 06:26:31 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 17, 2007, 04:44:20 PM
Its tough to say, sweet 16 for basketball seems pretty far into it where they could have some neutral games, or if your going to give it to the #1 seed it should go to the right team.  Fisher was 28-0 and didnt host, that is absurd.  Especially when 3 of the teams in the semi's were from NY (2 being from Rochester).  It wasn't about seating capacity either, Amherst might hold a hundred more people then fishers gym, very small.  The following year fisher had to go down and play Amherst was more in the right because Amherst had more losses.  Anyways, that is past talk.  Any early predictions on the Fisher Utica game coming up this wkend?

That particular year they could have easily avoided a lot of controversy. I understand that Fisher is not a sexy choice for the NCAA because of the size of the gym. I think one of two possible scenarios should have/could have been done.
1) they could have given the home court to U of R. That allows Fisher to play very close to home against Potsdam, and still gives the NCAA a gym that is a little bit bigger.

2) and this is the one that I think should be used year in and year out. If the NCAA wants a bigger gym but wants to stay away from neutral sites, I think they should give the #1 seed the option. Using that year as an example, If Fisher was the #1 seed, and they obviously were...Give them the chance to Host a game at a gym of their choice within a certain distance to the school. Fisher could choose U of R, they could choose RIT, Roberts, or the war memorial. all big gyms that could allow Fisher to be the host. If Fisher does not choose to move to a bigger gym because they want the home game, then just do what the NCAA did and give the home court to the team that the NCAA wants. This way, no team gets a home game as a 3 or 4 seed. The NCAA still gets the gym size it wants, and the #1 seed gets its "home game".
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 18, 2007, 02:57:39 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 17, 2007, 04:44:20 PM
Fisher was 28-0 and didnt host, that is absurd. 

Why is it automatic that Fisher was the higher seed? We know this because?

#     Team     W-L     Pts.     Last Week
1    UW-Stevens Point (11)    24-3    601    3
2    Amherst (9)    25-1    597    2
3    St. John Fisher (3)    27-0    541    4
4    Wittenberg    25-3    539    5
5    Wooster    26-2    534    1

The difference in regional record was negligible but the difference in strength of schedule index was staggering.

Amherst     12.083
St. John Fisher    10.957

That is a gigantic difference.

Sorry, man. These are the actual numbers used to select and seed teams.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 18, 2007, 08:15:34 AM
Pat,
I think that the overall point taking the "homer" attitude out, was that giving Potsdam the home court advantage was out of line.
I understand logistics, but in that case- it seemed that a more regional locale would have sufficed.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 18, 2007, 08:47:32 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 18, 2007, 08:15:34 AM
Pat,
I think that the overall point taking the "homer" attitude out, was that giving Potsdam the home court advantage was out of line.
I understand logistics, but in that case- it seemed that a more regional locale would have sufficed.

I'm confused, if the game was in Amherst (and I'm pretty sure it was, otherwise it took waaayy too long to get to Potsdam), how did the Bears have a home court advantage?

And the (tiny) stands were filled with Fisher students.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 18, 2007, 09:05:14 AM
Pat, I was aware of the Amherst strength of schedule and aware of their #1 seed. However, I still think the team that is undfeated should get the #1 seed in that case, its almost like compared to football in the bcs when an undefeated team doesnt get a shot at the championship because they didnt play as tough of a schedule, it pretty much sucks.  Furthermore, you can take pretty much any team from the east and their strength of schedule will be lower than a team in a tougher conference.  There are too many schools in the east compared to much of the country which makes for a majority weaker overall region.  But that should get taken out on a team that is undefeated. Anyways that is past news, past argument, lets move on...


Bamm im with ya on Potsdam didnt have a home court advantage, it was a neutral court anyway you look at it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 18, 2007, 09:13:21 AM
Sorry guys meant Amherst...
My goof.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on January 18, 2007, 01:21:04 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 18, 2007, 09:05:14 AM
Pat, I was aware of the Amherst strength of schedule and aware of their #1 seed. However, I still think the team that is undfeated should get the #1 seed in that case, its almost like compared to football in the bcs when an undefeated team doesnt get a shot at the championship because they didnt play as tough of a schedule, it pretty much sucks.  Furthermore, you can take pretty much any team from the east and their strength of schedule will be lower than a team in a tougher conference.  There are too many schools in the east compared to much of the country which makes for a majority weaker overall region.  But that should get taken out on a team that is undefeated. Anyways that is past news, past argument, lets move on...


Bamm im with ya on Potsdam didnt have a home court advantage, it was a neutral court anyway you look at it.

OK, so you're comparing this to football. Let's say for example that the NEFC champion is undefeated. Using your logic, they should get a home game. Know, we all know that that is not going to happen anytime soon. Just because you're undefeated, does not mean you should be hosting playoff games. And how many teams get to the playoffs with a great record and then get completely destroyed? Why are we even still having this conversation?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 18, 2007, 01:32:47 PM
agreed we shouldnt be having this convo anymore. The NEFC conference is a not what i was refurring too, that would almost be like taking an undefeated D3 team and saying they should get home court versus a D1 team that has a loss.  I dont consider the E8 compared to the NESCAC the NEFC of D1 football.  Itd be more comparable to the Pac 10 compared to the ACC or the Big east.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 18, 2007, 02:07:29 PM
George Washington had one loss last year going into the tournament...should they have been a higher seed than a Villanova or UCLA who had more losses. Pat's post pretty much puts the death knell in any pro-Fisher arguments on the subject.

It was pretty obvious that Tufts and Amherst were the two best teams at that Regional last year. A loss or two in that conference is much better than going undefeated in the average E8. Also, that season, do not forget that Fisher ESCAPED in two of their last three games before the NCAA's in games at Utica and at home against Ithaca in the E8 tourney; those were pretty mediocre teams.

Finally, did someone just cite the BCS to support an argument. I'm not even going to go back and check on that. If my understanding is correct, the BCS is not the NCAA; the NCAA has an agreement with the creators of the Bowl Championship Series through a certain year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 18, 2007, 02:16:46 PM
Utica was mediocre? they were a sweet 16 team who hammered WPI that was ranked pretty descent and it was the 3rd time playing a team on their home court.  It wasnt obvious that both of those teams were better, I do think Amherst was better, especially at home.  But toughs I wouldnt say was obviously better if better at all. I was just using the bcs as an indirect example that isnt 100% relevant but gets the point accross. Also with your agrument about G. Washington, having 1 loss and being undefeated is totally different.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 18, 2007, 02:28:52 PM
I don't understand what the problem is.  Every season the folks involved do an objective analysis of each team in the field that takes into account several factors.  And each of the last several seasons their work in the East region has looked pretty darn good in hindsight. 

Your argument might hold some water if Fisher was ever actually competitive in a game that meant something.  A neutral court isn't going to overcome the 23 point shellacking by Amherst or the embarassing loss to the Bears.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 18, 2007, 03:14:55 PM
hmmm.....This argument should not even take place until the NCAAS come around again and then everyone can complain...seems like an annual thing...However yes fisher got beat soundly twice by 2 very good teams...I am not saying about the Potsdam game except the fact that they came out hungrier and Fisher was off...(way off)...The Amherst game though, I was there and they did smack Fisher but I do not think anyone could have beaten them that night.  They shot 53% from Three and that number only came down at the end when finally there scrub players missed...They were on fire and fed off the home crowd...On a neutral site it might not make up for the 23 point difference but maybe a couple of those 15+ threes amherst hit might not have rattled in....Hmmm and didnt fisher just get waxed by U of R by 29 on a neutral site however beat them at home earlier...and i guess ncaa games that fisher won to get them there were games that didnt matter...and lastly yeah 2 out of the last 3 games that Fisher played going into the sweet 16 against potsdam were close but keep in mind, 1...Fisher just got sloppy because they were up 20 at half on Ithaca and 2 they beat RIT by 40 who had beaten the same U of R team that went to the finals...Moving on...any predictions for the weekend...looking forwared to Fisher/utica game...this will be Bryants test
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 18, 2007, 05:12:44 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 18, 2007, 02:16:46 PM
Utica was mediocre? they were a sweet 16 team who hammered WPI that was ranked pretty descent and it was the 3rd time playing a team on their home court.  It wasnt obvious that both of those teams were better, I do think Amherst was better, especially at home.  But toughs I wouldnt say was obviously better if better at all. I was just using the bcs as an indirect example that isnt 100% relevant but gets the point accross. Also with your agrument about G. Washington, having 1 loss and being undefeated is totally different.


We are talking about the year Fisher went 27-0, no? Yes, Utica was mediocre that year with no Ray Bryant.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 18, 2007, 06:43:59 PM
I started this by saying that I feel and still feel no single team should get that much of an advantage...it should either go to the team that won the year before or it should be a neutral site picked in advance....that way citys can be ready....we can make reservations ahead of time...and people can really put some pride into hosting
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 18, 2007, 10:12:32 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 18, 2007, 02:28:52 PM
I don't understand what the problem is.  Every season the folks involved do an objective analysis of each team in the field that takes into account several factors.  And each of the last several seasons their work in the East region has looked pretty darn good in hindsight. 

Your argument might hold some water if Fisher was ever actually competitive in a game that meant something.  A neutral court isn't going to overcome the 23 point shellacking by Amherst or the embarassing loss to the Bears.

A game that means something? well they did win an NCAA game to get to the sweet 16. I am pretty sure they won two games in the tourny last year.  And they also won a few E8 championship games in the last two years. those games did not mean anything...I think most other E8 teams would love to have those kind of games not mean anything.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 18, 2007, 10:16:11 PM
Also if Amherst was the number one seed well then the argument is mute I guess. They got to play on their home floor as they should. I was under the impression that Fisher was the one seed that year.

Amherst was good that year and most every year as well. Fisher has had bad games each of the last two years in the tournament. Was Potsdam better than Fisher twp years ago? well, they may have been. I don't think they were 20 points better. I was at the game and Fisher missed a lot of open looks that they had made all year long. At that stage of the tourny you just can't do that.
Obviously it is disapointing to lose like they have the last few years at deeper stages in the tournament. but lets not take a big time loss to a good Potsdam or Amherst team to mean that Fisher was not good either year. Bottom line, they were the best team in the Conference, and at least one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the Region. It is what it is...tough losses to end great seasons
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 19, 2007, 01:02:55 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 18, 2007, 09:05:14 AM
Pat, I was aware of the Amherst strength of schedule and aware of their #1 seed. However, I still think the team that is undfeated should get the #1 seed in that case, its almost like compared to football

It's not like football. A one-game difference out of 12 games is different than a one-game difference out of 28 games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 19, 2007, 01:06:30 AM
I was at every fisher home game last year and a bunch of road games including both sweet 16 and elite 8....maybe not every team has a home court advantage like Amherst...but boy do they have a home court advantage...they are louder than fisher fans even fisher vs. naz....they pack the place and really make their presenace known...Fisher could not hit a open shot and I think some of it had to do with the noice...Amherst couldn't miss a shot......I know I might be the only one who feels this but it either needs to be a neutral site or a pre-determined site...as in the idea I really like the previous years champs get to host...that way if their team is not in it they still get to make money on concessions...and reasons for the ncaa to put it in neutral sites...say St. Rose College a DII in Albany you control the concessions and get to add even more money into your pocket

pat I agree. its not like football amherst deserved to host because of strength of schedule...that year the E8 was like MWC...a good conference but nothing great....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 19, 2007, 08:46:23 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on January 18, 2007, 10:12:32 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 18, 2007, 02:28:52 PM
I don't understand what the problem is.  Every season the folks involved do an objective analysis of each team in the field that takes into account several factors.  And each of the last several seasons their work in the East region has looked pretty darn good in hindsight. 

Your argument might hold some water if Fisher was ever actually competitive in a game that meant something.  A neutral court isn't going to overcome the 23 point shellacking by Amherst or the embarassing loss to the Bears.

A game that means something? well they did win an NCAA game to get to the sweet 16. I am pretty sure they won two games in the tourny last year.  And they also won a few E8 championship games in the last two years. those games did not mean anything...I think most other E8 teams would love to have those kind of games not mean anything.

Beating Norwich and Lebanon Valley at home are not the kind of wins that grab anyone's attention.  You complain about seeding and home court advantage, but Fisher has done nothing in recent NCAA runs that makes anyone think they deserved to be a #1 seed and regional host. 

Potsdam destroyed them offensively and defensively.  Amherst beat them by 23.  Until the Cards win a regional -- errr, at least until they look competitive in a regional -- expect to be traveling, gaudy record or not. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 19, 2007, 08:50:52 AM
Full Conference Schedule this weekend, as the Rochester schools go on the road.  These games, especially the Saturday afternooner, are tough (unless it's Elmira).

Friday:
RIT over Elmira
Utica over Alfred
Ithaca over Naz
Fisher over Hartwick

Saturday:
Naz over Elmira
Utica over Fisher
RIT over Ithaca
Hartwick over Alfred
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 19, 2007, 09:08:57 AM
Friday:
Rit over Elmira +15
Utica over Alfred +12
Ithaca over Naz +2.5
Fisher over Hartwick +13

Saturday:
Naz over Elmira +17
Utica over Fisher +4
Rit over Ithaca +2
Alfred over Hartwick +3

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 19, 2007, 12:10:17 PM
QuoteBeating Norwich and Lebanon Valley at home are not the kind of wins that grab anyone's attention.  You complain about seeding and home court advantage, but Fisher has done nothing in recent NCAA runs that makes anyone think they deserved to be a #1 seed and regional host. 

Potsdam destroyed them offensively and defensively.  Amherst beat them by 23.  Until the Cards win a regional -- errr, at least until they look competitive in a regional -- expect to be traveling, gaudy record or not.

Yeah I guess getting farther than Fisher ever has before has been accomplished without having one quality...Beating Springfield at Springfield and a good Rutgers Newark team do not qualify aside from going 28-0.  I am not saying Fisher 100% deserved Home court but neither did Amherst...Lets look at Amhert's run.  They have hosted 2 years in a row.  They were the one seed and had home court advantage so they are expected to win.  They lost against u of r, Dissapointing, and they went to the Final Four last year and lost both games...(but I will not count the 3rd place game since I think this game is ridiculous...who really wants to play a game after they just had their titles taken away)so what has Amherst really done aside from performing expectedly at best.  The only way for this argument could go undisputed would be if Fisher hosted the one year and still got waxed...Than No one would be talking...However since that didnt happen and my time travel device has not been completed yet for me to go back and change who hosts that year, this will always be questioned...Now lets move on...this week is a big week for seeing who could be numero uno (u know i dont speak spanish) and #2...Also big games for the possible 3-6 teams (Alfred, Ithaca, RIT, NAZ)...Elmira hartwick sorry they are just not good...there playoff game is when they face each other...only Prediction, Fisher beats Utica...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 19, 2007, 12:50:03 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 19, 2007, 01:06:30 AM
I was at every fisher home game last year and a bunch of road games including both sweet 16 and elite 8....maybe not every team has a home court advantage like Amherst...but boy do they have a home court advantage...they are louder than fisher fans even fisher vs. naz....they pack the place and really make their presenace known...Fisher could not hit a open shot and I think some of it had to do with the noice...Amherst couldn't miss a shot......I know I might be the only one who feels this but it either needs to be a neutral site or a pre-determined site...as in the idea I really like the previous years champs get to host...that way if their team is not in it they still get to make money on concessions...and reasons for the ncaa to put it in neutral sites...say St. Rose College a DII in Albany you control the concessions and get to add even more money into your pocket

pat I agree. its not like football amherst deserved to host because of strength of schedule...that year the E8 was like MWC...a good conference but nothing great....

The NCAA already controls the concessions.

There has been talk about neutral sites for the sectional round. There hasn't been a whole lot of interest by schools in hosting them if their team is not in them. It's an incredible amount of work and there's not much in it for the school.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on January 19, 2007, 04:22:48 PM
Actually in '04-05, Amherst was on break, so there wasn't a lot of home court advantage.  There were plenty of empty seats for the Fisher-Potsdam game.  Then many of the Fisher fans cleared out, so people weren't hanging from the rafters for the Amherst-Rochester game later that evening.  Potsdam was also on break, so any students that travelled to Amherst (5 & 1/2 hours) did so on their own.

The Elite 8 game between Rochester and Potsdam was a true neutral court game, no real crowd advantage for either side. 

My memories go back to the 80's when Potsdam routinely filled their gym with 3000+ for regional and sectional games. That was a home court advantage.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 19, 2007, 06:19:22 PM
well, it was packed to the rafters at last years elite 8 they even tried to sit in our section at whic point they got kicked out
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 19, 2007, 07:17:44 PM
well I think all of this is a pointless argument at this point. Fisher lost to a better team last year...they probably would have lost at home as well, although it would have been a much better game. I would have loved to see the game at Fisher as much as anybody. This year is a much better topic I think.
Big weekend for all teams in the E8 this weekend it seems like. Maybe not for Elmira but that is besides the point. This weekend could go a long way to determining the outcome of the league.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 19, 2007, 09:37:23 PM
Ithaca's new live stats interface is terrific.  Other things that are terrific include the Bombers whipping Nazareth 75-68, which happened tonight at the Bulb.  Jeff Bostic with 20 points, 7 boards, 4 blocks on 8 of 12 shooting to lead IC.  Sean Stahn 6 of 9 from the floor for 14 points and Sean Burton adds 14 of his own with 6 assists and 3 steals.  Tyler Smith doing the work for Naz with 22 and 9.  14 and 6 for Rayvon Higdon and 13 points for Corey McAdam.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 19, 2007, 10:51:57 PM
Wow...huge win for Ithaca early in the conference season. This win could be a big stepping stone for moving into the top 4 in the conference at the end of the season.

Fisher and Utica both take care of business setting up a big one tomorrow in Utica. First place on the line. Should be a good one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on January 20, 2007, 12:07:13 AM
Am I the only one that doesn't like the nickname "The Bulb," for Ben Light Gymnasium? I don't remember it being called that when I was an undergrad. Damn you young whippersnappers. GoBombers15, its all your fault :)

Though, when I was at Ithaca, Ben Light was called The Hanger (?). No clue why, and that isn't a very stout nickname either.

But, I did see Lewis Black, Sugar Hill Gang and numerous other acts there, along with lots of hoops, so it'll hold a special place in my memory.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 20, 2007, 02:19:57 AM
so whats up with coco crisp not starting for hartwick...  Fisher has beaten Utica 7 straight times dating back to 03=04 where fisher lost 81-70 at Utica I'm gonna start working on fishers longest winning streaks vs. teams in the e8
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 20, 2007, 02:27:17 AM
10 straight vs. RIT
9+ vs. Hartwick
8+ vs. Alfred
8+ vs. Elmira
10+ vs. Ithaca


note the plus sign means it goes back to the 02-03 seasons where I stop having stats on games...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 20, 2007, 02:35:54 AM
I have to say hartwick, elmira, and alfred don't suprise me...Fisher beats them two times a year and moves on...but 10+ vs. Ithaca....if only the football team could do that too. I have to say that is impressive but I would not be suprised if that streak ended this year
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 20, 2007, 09:28:26 AM
Quote from: John McGraw on January 20, 2007, 12:07:13 AM
Am I the only one that doesn't like the nickname "The Bulb," for Ben Light Gymnasium? I don't remember it being called that when I was an undergrad. Damn you young whippersnappers. GoBombers15, its all your fault :)

Though, when I was at Ithaca, Ben Light was called The Hanger (?). No clue why, and that isn't a very stout nickname either.

But, I did see Lewis Black, Sugar Hill Gang and numerous other acts there, along with lots of hoops, so it'll hold a special place in my memory.

I agree that it is not the best nickname, but hey at least it has a name...it adds some character to the place. Are their any other places in the E8 that have nicknames?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 20, 2007, 10:38:26 AM
QuoteIthaca's new live stats interface is terrific.  Other things that are terrific include the Bombers whipping Nazareth 75-68, which happened tonight at the Bulb.  Jeff Bostic with 20 points, 7 boards, 4 blocks on 8 of 12 shooting to lead IC.  Sean Stahn 6 of 9 from the floor for 14 points and Sean Burton adds 14 of his own with 6 assists and 3 steals.  Tyler Smith doing the work for Naz with 22 and 9.  14 and 6 for Rayvon Higdon and 13 points for Corey McAdam


Great win for Ithaca...Alright it I think its time to start giving up on Naz being anything in the E8...Sure they might pull an upset on someone here and there but do they ever really come to play unless its against Fisher...There should be no talk about Canori (if there was any) getting E8 POY...his team just does not win...Also, it seems as though he does not care if they win more so than him looking good in the game...I like little Mcadams game but Naz has to start pulling out some w's.  At some point this team has to understand that winning is more important than individuality...We have been waiting for this NAZ team to mature and see what they are made...I know the older Mcadam is injured but still...I am not seeing any progression and they are 3 years in the making... 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 20, 2007, 12:01:53 PM
Random in-season post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7dnGo_2tZA&mode=related&search=

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 20, 2007, 05:38:34 PM
Fisher Utica is a knock down drag em out battle right now... Utica down 1 with 2:00 left in the game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 20, 2007, 05:50:10 PM
fisher utica going into OT
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 20, 2007, 06:05:36 PM
lighthall saves utica's a$$ going into double ot
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 20, 2007, 06:07:51 PM
Wow, sounds like a terrific game in Utica today.  Elsewhere it was RIT holding off Ithaca 90-84 for the road win.  Tigers used a 13-0 run midway through the second half to take a double-digit lead then had to hold on down the stretch as the Bombers cut it to 2 with 19 seconds left.  Barrett Zeinfeld drained 6 straight free throws in the last 15 seconds to seal it.  He finished with 26 points.  Kenny Gethers with 16 and 8, Tim Bacon had 15 and 6, Rick Whitwood adds 10 and 7.  Jeff Bostic leads all scorers with 27 points for the Bombers while Sean Burton had 23 points and 8 assists.

EDIT: Another note is that RIT just mauled IC on the glass, 40-21.  In fact, the Tigers had more offensive rebounds (18) than the Bombers had defensive boards (14).  That's a completely unacceptable statistic and must not happen again for Ithaca to have a successful rest of the season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 20, 2007, 06:26:05 PM
any update on the SJF - UC game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 20, 2007, 06:33:24 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 20, 2007, 02:35:54 AM
I have to say hartwick, elmira, and alfred don't suprise me...Fisher beats them two times a year and moves on...but 10+ vs. Ithaca....if only the football team could do that too. I have to say that is impressive but I would not be suprised if that streak ended this year

Several of them were very close and could have gone either way. That said, it's surprising.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 20, 2007, 06:40:48 PM
Per the E8 website, Utica knocks off Fisher in double-OT, 62-54.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 20, 2007, 06:45:29 PM
ouch!
Tough loss.
Looks like a dogfight for the E8!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 20, 2007, 06:58:03 PM
AU handles Hartwick 74-58.
Rob McCarter has good weekend, scoring 29 in Oneonta after 19 in Utica the night before in AU's 60-51 loss to the Pioneers. AU now 2-3 in E8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 20, 2007, 08:33:52 PM
Just got back from the Fisher/Utica game. What a terrible game to watch. It was a close game, and exciting at the end...but wow...neither team could score...Fisher shot 33% for the game...worst percentage since I don't know when. the score with 11 minutes left in the first half was 4-2.

Utica made the plays down the stretch and pulled it out, so they deserve all the credit. They did win...and that is all you can say. The good news for Fisher...Utica is not as good as I thought they were. They executed a game plan very well tonight, running the shot clock down on almost every possession, and finding a way to get rebounds at key moments. More good news...I don't think Fisher will shoot 33% in too many games this year. I would be real suprised if Fisher lost to UC at home. Some of the poor shooting was good defense by the pioneers, but Mueller missed a lot of open shots...and no one else hit a 3 I don't think.

The key this year may be where the E8 tourny is...If it is at Utica it could be either teams to win. If it is at Fisher I think they will win it. but again UC took care of business down the stretch and did what it had to do, win at home. If either team plays like they did today again, they could lose to anybody, and I mean anybody except Elmira, on any night. It was pretty ugly for both teams.

Congrats to UC on a big win...should be a fun ride the rest of the way in the conference.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 20, 2007, 10:10:26 PM
Hey now, Elmira is better than Hartwick. Postup is very conspicuous by his absence following Hartwick's 0-5 start to the conference season. Was mentioning their record a personal attack?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 20, 2007, 10:17:30 PM
What a great game. Refs were very inconsistent for both teams, allowing total rapings under the basket but calling off the ball touch fouls. It came down to tough Defense. Munch played a lot of minutes and created havoc when fisher had the ball. Contributions all around. Bryant on the boards, Lighthall had a great game all around, Munch tore it up with steals, rebounds, forcing jump balls, taking one for the team, and just putting it all on the line. Herring with another solid game, Collier stepping up with the 3 ball, and McClendon having the best game of his young career. Everybody played tough for Utica tonight.  

Fisher played tough, but in the end, Utica was just too much for them and wanted it more. Great win for UC with many basketball alumni (back to the '50's)in attendance. I love it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 20, 2007, 10:44:13 PM
I know Fisher is a good team, but I was really expecting a little bit more in the way of a convincing victory today for the Pioneers. Fisher is only going to get better as the new players get accustomed to their various roles. It's still going to go down to the wire to decide where the E8 tourney is held.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 21, 2007, 12:24:47 AM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 20, 2007, 10:17:30 PM
What a great game. Refs were very inconsistent for both teams, allowing total rapings under the basket but calling off the ball touch fouls. It came down to tough Defense. Munch played a lot of minutes and created havoc when fisher had the ball. Contributions all around. Bryant on the boards, Lighthall had a great game all around, Munch tore it up with steals, rebounds, forcing jump balls, taking one for the team, and just putting it all on the line. Herring with another solid game, Collier stepping up with the 3 ball, and McClendon having the best game of his young career. Everybody played tough for Utica tonight.  

Fisher played tough, but in the end, Utica was just too much for them and wanted it more. Great win for UC with many basketball alumni (back to the '50's)in attendance. I love it.

Munch did play very well for UC...and I think Herring may be the best player for UC (including Ray Bryant). However, I would not say UC was too much for Fisher. If McSweeny boxes out one player at the end of the first overtime fisher wins the game. UC made some plays, but watching the game today was difficult to say the least. It was  a pretty sloppy game with poor shooting and bad offense all around.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reelentless on January 21, 2007, 10:18:42 AM

gobombers15
QuoteI know Fisher is a good team, but I was really expecting a little bit more in the way of a convincing victory today for the Pioneers. Fisher is only going to get better as the new players get accustomed to their various roles. It's still going to go down to the wire to decide where the E8 tourney is held.

sjfcards
QuoteMunch did play very well for UC...and I think Herring may be the best player for UC (including Ray Bryant). However, I would not say UC was too much for Fisher. If McSweeny boxes out one player at the end of the first overtime fisher wins the game. UC made some plays, but watching the game today was difficult to say the least. It was  a pretty sloppy game with poor shooting and bad offense all around.

The story of last nights game was defense and determination for both teams with Dennis Munch being the poster boy for both - plus adding 7 pts.  You couldn't leave the gym without being proud of the effort on both sides.  Pretty, maybe not, but motivating.  No one left the gym until it was over and the game will be remembered, at least for it's significance to Utica. 

It's never easy (or wise) to judge the cause of teams offensive "off night".   Last night Fisher's defense certainly had an effect on Utica's looks and opportunities.  That said, it would dangerous to judge Utica's offensive ability by the one game the Fisher fans saw last night.   They're still inconsistant, but with two guys who can put up  20+ and three others who can do 10+, they're not lacking for firepower and they can be very very good at finding the open man. 

Ithaca saw an "on night" for Utica's offense but we got no love from the Ithaca fans.  School was out so maybe none of the posters saw the game?

Anyway, great game, could have gone either way, glad I got to see it.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 21, 2007, 10:43:07 AM
Quote from: reelentless on January 21, 2007, 10:18:42 AM

gobombers15
QuoteI know Fisher is a good team, but I was really expecting a little bit more in the way of a convincing victory today for the Pioneers. Fisher is only going to get better as the new players get accustomed to their various roles. It's still going to go down to the wire to decide where the E8 tourney is held.

sjfcards
QuoteMunch did play very well for UC...and I think Herring may be the best player for UC (including Ray Bryant). However, I would not say UC was too much for Fisher. If McSweeny boxes out one player at the end of the first overtime fisher wins the game. UC made some plays, but watching the game today was difficult to say the least. It was  a pretty sloppy game with poor shooting and bad offense all around.

The story of last nights game was defense and determination for both teams with Dennis Munch being the poster boy for both - plus adding 7 pts.  You couldn't leave the gym without being proud of the effort on both sides.  Pretty, maybe not, but motivating.  No one left the gym until it was over and the game will be remembered, at least for it's significance to Utica. 

It's never easy (or wise) to judge the cause of teams offensive "off night".   Last night Fisher's defense certainly had an effect on Utica's looks and opportunities.  That said, it would dangerous to judge Utica's offensive ability by the one game the Fisher fans saw last night.   They're still inconsistant, but with two guys who can put up  20+ and three others who can do 10+, they're not lacking for firepower and they can be very very good at finding the open man. 

Ithaca saw an "on night" for Utica's offense but we got no love from the Ithaca fans.  School was out so maybe none of the posters saw the game?

Anyway, great game, could have gone either way, glad I got to see it.




Exactly. Neither team shot anywhere near where they usually do because of how tough the defense was for both teams. When these teams meet, they have the potential for a game in the 40's, or a game in the 90's.

I noticed someone saying that they doubt fisher will shoot that low of a percentage against them next time. I doubt Utica will shoot that low of a percentage as well (theirs was slightly lower than fishers last night).

That game was all about who wanted it more and two quality teams slugging it out. Blocks, jump balls, steals, tips, taking charges.... it featured it all. A lot of guys were bloody and there are a lot of guys on both teams who are going to feel it today.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 22, 2007, 11:41:07 AM
Quote from: bamm on January 19, 2007, 08:50:52 AM
Full Conference Schedule this weekend, as the Rochester schools go on the road.  These games, especially the Saturday afternooner, are tough (unless it's Elmira).

Friday:
RIT over Elmira
Utica over Alfred
Ithaca over Naz
Fisher over Hartwick

Saturday:
Naz over Elmira
Utica over Fisher
RIT over Ithaca
Hartwick over Alfred


7-1 isn't bad, especially when the one I missed was the Alfred/Hartwick brawl.  Huge wins for Utica and RIT on Saturday.  Utica, because of their tendency to drop a game or two in Rochester.  RIT because of the terrible loss to Alfred at home (finally got a good shooting performance from Zeinfeld, off the bench).  Ithaca is still in decent shape, and Naz really needs to defend homecourt against RIT tomorrow.  I don't think they will.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 22, 2007, 01:38:34 PM
8 for 8 in week one of E8 play, not too shabby.  Another Early prediction of final standings:

1) Fisher (hosts: will beat Utica more convincingly that Utica did at home)
2) Utica
3) RIT
4) Ithaca
5) Naz
6) Alfred
7) Elmira
8) Hartwick
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 22, 2007, 02:16:03 PM
As I stated earlier, Zeinfeld had a very good game against Ithaca.  I should have elaborated, as it was pretty impressive (it earned him E8 player of the week honors). 

He came off the bench and scored 26 in just 14 minutes of playing time.  He was 12-14 from the line and 6-8 from the field. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 22, 2007, 08:27:52 PM
Tomorrow is a huge day in the E8 in my opinion. Fisher has been known to struggle with AU in the past, and Tuesday night games are a bit of a down time for the Fisher fans that makes Varsity Gym a tough place to play. It will be real tough for Fisher if they lose another game or two in conference. puts a lot of pressure on the next Utica game.

For Naz and RIT play tomorrow. Two teams that will need all the wins they can get in the conference to make the tourny. Especially for RIT after a bad loss to AU at home.

Utica also plays a good Oswego team. Important for them not to let down after a big win against a big conference foe. Wins like the ones they can get tomorrow are huge at tourny time, if they are beaten in the E8 tournament.

I love important games during the week. I know the tradition of the friday/saturday games, but I hate waiting all week for the games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 22, 2007, 10:34:48 PM
Last year at McLane, AU blew at least a six-point lead in the final two minutes as Fisher was lucky to get out of Alfred with a win. Saxons held Utica to 60, Hartwich to 58 over the weekend, playing solid defense, led by Ryan Clemenson. If Rob McCarter continues with a hot hand and some other Saxons start making some noise at the offensive end, perhaps AU can make a statement and move to 3-2 in the E8.

On Saxon Warriors!

Note to Self: Did you really call Hartwick "Hartwich"....reminds Pep of the time Mom Pep made a sandwich out of beef tongue and packed in Pep's lunch in 8th grade. That was a tonguewich, similar to a hartwich.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hoaf on January 22, 2007, 11:50:38 PM
Although Utica is out to a 5-0 start I am curious about who the board thinks the best team is in the conference. Especially with St. John Fisher being a perennial powerhouse.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hoaf on January 22, 2007, 11:51:48 PM
I created a poll to see what team you guys think is the best in the conference this year. Follow the link and vote!!

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5067.0 (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5067.0)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hoaf on January 22, 2007, 11:53:56 PM
What are your thoughts about more interconference games between the Liberty League and the Empire 8?

As it is I know a bunch of teams play against each other but I'd really like to see St. John Fisher and Utica play some of the better Liberty League teams. Such as St. Lawrence, Hamilton, and Vassar.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 23, 2007, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: alucardz on January 22, 2007, 11:53:56 PM
What are your thoughts about more interconference games between the Liberty League and the Empire 8?

As it is I know a bunch of teams play against each other but I'd really like to see St. John Fisher and Utica play some of the better Liberty League teams. Such as St. Lawrence, Hamilton, and Vassar.

Vassar wasn't one of the better LL teams before this season, so there was certainly no reason to schedule them before.  As it is, Vassar generally plays its OOC games against teams to the south and the east to limit travel.  From the E8, only Hartwick plays them regularly.

As for Ithaca, we play St. Lawrence and Hobart every year; I'd certainly like to see an annual series with Hamilton, they're nearby.  Union and/or RPI would be good too.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hoaf on January 23, 2007, 02:03:08 PM
Indeed... I feel that the Empire 8 and LL have a lot of good basketball to play against one another. It's about time they start scheduling some more games.

Eventually, I'd also like to see some regular season games against some of the better NESCAC schools as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 23, 2007, 03:04:35 PM
I thought Hamilton already played Utica?

According to Utica's Web site, the Pioneers lost to Hamilton 68-64 this season. Also, Utica played Skidmore -- which is in the Liberty League -- this season, and won 69-55. I know Skidmore has just two wins this year, and one in its conference, but that win was against Hamilton this past weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on January 23, 2007, 03:07:00 PM
Utica also played Clarkson on the road and lost to them but Ray Bryant did not make the trip.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 23, 2007, 04:32:17 PM
Quote from: alucardz on January 22, 2007, 11:53:56 PM
What are your thoughts about more interconference games between the Liberty League and the Empire 8?

As it is I know a bunch of teams play against each other but I'd really like to see St. John Fisher and Utica play some of the better Liberty League teams. Such as St. Lawrence, Hamilton, and Vassar.



RIT also plays Hobart every year and seems to play Clarkson & St. Lawrence most years as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hoaf on January 23, 2007, 05:26:35 PM
Who cares about Utica. I'm talking about St. John Fisher. Not some local Empire 8 team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 23, 2007, 05:32:04 PM
In order to be successful in the Empire 8 teams must have some personnel who can consistently hit the outside shot. Hartwick's recent struggles is largely due to their lack of someone who can hit the outside shot. Jan Cocozziello and Cory Carson has been the major point producers for Hartwick. Both Jan and Cory are tremendously athletic and dominate when they drive to the basket. However, when they drive and kick out the ball there really isn't anyone who can consistently knock down the three or long range two. This has been very problematic. I fully expect the recruiting class for next season to feature a high profile sharp shooting guard.

While the 0-5 start in the conference is a huge hole to dig out of. This means that the E8 tourney is just about a no go for the Hawks. However, I wouldn't be overly surprised if they make the ECAC tourney.

More later.... 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 23, 2007, 05:37:59 PM
have you seen fisher's schedule...I think the chase schedule makes them think twice about adding more games against top teams...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 05:53:20 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 23, 2007, 05:32:04 PM
While the 0-5 start in the conference is a huge hole to dig out of. This means that the E8 tourney is just about a no go for the Hawks. However, I wouldn't be overly surprised if they make the ECAC tourney.

More later.... 

Can you please clue everyone in as to how this Hartwick team that is currently 7-9 and must face five of the teams that have already beaten them (including 2-14 Elmira) and that you rightly suspect will miss the E8 Tourney (top four E8 teams), still has a shot at the ECAC Tourney?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 23, 2007, 06:03:03 PM
Hoaf, I agree I think it'd be great to be able to play a few LL teams per year.  However, with the Chase tourny taking up 3 local games, trying to extend outside of the region for preseason tournaments to finally get some national recognition it is tough.  They usually schedule Hobart every year (although not a top LL team but usually descent).  I know  a few years back they went down to Skidmore for a tourny, and then the following year up to St. Lawrence.  Its just tough with 16 league games, squeeze in a few sunyacs, maybe a NEAC, out of region tournys, the chase, then a liberty league or two.  Fisher always seems to meet hamilton in the early rounds of the NCAA, itd be nice for them to be able to set up a regular game each year since they both seem to be the more promising best year in and year out of their respective conferences.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 23, 2007, 06:06:44 PM
they are also starting to schedule UofR and they try to satisfy local rivalry's with geneseo and brockport
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hoaf on January 23, 2007, 06:53:41 PM
FisherDynasty... Thanks for the support and I get what you're saying.

It's understandable that they don't play some of the better teams in the other leagues. St. Lawrence is a good team but they aren't Hamilton. I'd just like to see St. John Fisher play Hamilton before I graduate. Maybe it could happen in the NCAA tourney. If they both make it.

Also, what's with the SUNYAC? Is it me or did they start to get really good teams in just the last few years?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 23, 2007, 07:43:05 PM
As much as I would love to see Fisher, and other E8 teams for that matter, play a few more of the top LL teams, I almost think it is more important to go to the tournaments that they have gone to the past few years. This year they went to York College's tourny. Although York is a little bit down this year, they are not too far removed from a final four appearance. It is wins like the one against York, a team most fans recognize as a good team, that can make up for shakey losses (like lets say 29 points to U of R) Hamilton is obviously a quality program and has that type of recognition. I would love to see that matchup more often in the early season.

Last year Fisher used the success of the undefeated season to play such teams as Baldwin Wallace, Randolph Macon, and Lake Erie. Those types of games look real good if you can find a way to win.
I know for a while some people in the Fisher program were not huge fans of Hamilton due to certain instances in tournament games from previous years. Not to say that Fisher would refuse to play Hamilton or the other way around, I just don't think they were actively looking for a change to play them.

It would be fun to see, but it may take some doing to get it done.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 08:27:21 PM
Fisher scores its first point of the game with 11:35 to go in first half as AU leads, 9-1 at McLane Center.

Pep "fixed" the Fisher rim before the game...but will need to make some adjustments at halftime.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 08:45:00 PM
Alfred 28, Fisher 19 at halftime at McLane Center.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 23, 2007, 09:17:12 PM
Fisher down by 2 with 9 min to play! i think there gonna get it, gotta hold it longer then this alfred.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 23, 2007, 09:18:35 PM
Baltz is lighting it up in the 2nd half puts fisher up 2 with 8 to play, this one is over.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 09:23:59 PM
Unless of course, Coach Murphy has something up his sleeve.  :o
Embarrassing to hear the Murph on the radio....sounds like Pep coaching the 10-12-year-olds in the Biddy League.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 23, 2007, 09:25:59 PM
haha
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 09:42:57 PM
Final from McLane:
Alfred 51, Fisher 50
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 23, 2007, 09:18:35 PM
Baltz is lighting it up in the 2nd half puts fisher up 2 with 8 to play, this one is over.

Indeed, it's over.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 23, 2007, 09:45:42 PM
well i just ate my words, i cant believe they lost to alfred, well actually i can, they have the youngest team since 2001.  They're gonna have to be utica at utica in the e8 tourny if they want to get in the ncaa's
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 09:54:44 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 23, 2007, 09:45:42 PM
well i just ate my words, i cant believe they lost to alfred, well actually i can, they have the youngest team since 2001.  They're gonna have to be utica at utica in the e8 tourny if they want to get in the ncaa's

Alfred doesn't have a lot of offensive weapons but plays tough at the defensive end, led by Ryan Clemenson. Pep made a run from the library to McLane for the final two minutes. While there, Clem had a strip of a Cardinal going in for a layup....Stein had a good post move for the winning basket, then Fisher's final shot banged around then popped out. Good game played with great intensity by both teams, from what Pep saw. The two teams meet again at Fisher in a couple weeks....Pep doesn't expect the Saxons will repeat tonight's feat, but they'll play tough just the same.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 23, 2007, 09:57:29 PM
Lolly gaggin in the first half has finally gotten the best of Fisher...As a fan I can not remember the last time Fisher lost to Alfred but my memory only dates back a couple years ago...Hopefully this is a wake up call for them...because if not, then Alfred will not be the last loss of conference play and I do not feel comfortable having Fisher play at Utica for the E8 championship...Could Fisher really relinquish the regular season and post season crown?  A lot of questions are now in the air...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 23, 2007, 10:02:14 PM
well if they play the way they have the last two games they may relinquish a hold on second place as well.

Another bad performance for Fisher. AU played hard and deserved to win. Utica now has a firm grip on the inside track for the regular season crown. I hope Fisher can use this a bit of a spring board/wake up call to finish strong. Otherwise ECAC's here we come. Can't remember the last time I said that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on January 23, 2007, 10:02:14 PM
well if they play the way they have the last two games they may relinquish a hold on second place as well.

Another bad performance for Fisher. AU played hard and deserved to win. Utica now has a firm grip on the inside track for the regular season crown. I hope Fisher can use this a bit of a spring board/wake up call to finish strong. Otherwise ECAC's here we come. Can't remember the last time I said that.


ECACs along with Hartwick?....(see last post-up post)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 10:06:24 PM
Perhaps Utica will slip along the way...you just never know.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 23, 2007, 10:12:12 PM
RIT extends its ownership of Nazareth, winning 86-79.

Zeinfeld has 22, Bacon 19, and Gethers 18.  RIT reverses early season trend and shoots incredibly well from the line. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 23, 2007, 10:14:43 PM
Holy freakin crap.  Way to go Saxons!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 10:14:56 PM
Hey, here's a ridiculous fact. Despite sporting a dismal 5-10 record, at this point in the season, AU is actually undefeated at home...with the Fisher game the first of a five-game homestand. Saxons have played in McLane Center all of THREE games to date. AU played 12 of their first 14 games on the road. Yikes!

Alfred 79, Hilbert 77 (2 OT)
Alfred 73, Allegheny 57
Alfred 51, Fisher 50
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 23, 2007, 10:16:47 PM
Jdex on the SUNYAC board reports that Utica beat Oswego 63-62, and so they did, on a Doug Herring jumper with 2 seconds left.  He had 19 points as did Ray Bryant, Bryant also had 11 boards.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 10:17:50 PM
Empire 8 Standings as of Tonight's Results:

Utica 5-0
Fisher 3-2
Ithaca 3-2
RIT 3-2
Alfred 3-2
Naz 2-3
Elmira 1-4
Hartwick 0-5
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 23, 2007, 10:18:54 PM
Well jeez, my confidence in a Bomber win at AU on Friday night just dropped like a rock.  I feel bad for Elmira going to SJF that night....Fisher's gonna be pisssssssssed.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 10:27:45 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 23, 2007, 10:18:54 PM
Well jeez, my confidence in a Bomber win at AU on Friday night just dropped like a rock.  I feel bad for Elmira going to SJF that night....Fisher's gonna be pisssssssssed.

Caz:
You coming down for the game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 23, 2007, 10:31:17 PM
Nope, I live too far outside the E8 footprint to make a game this year.  Went to the Geneseo-New Paltz SUNYAC tilt the other night and will try to make a Vassar game and if VC hosts the Liberty League tourney I will try to go to that.  My concession to myself is that if Ithaca's men or women make the NCAA Tournament and are sent in a direction that is east and/or south of Ithaca, I will do my best to go there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 10:45:29 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 23, 2007, 10:31:17 PM
Nope, I live too far outside the E8 footprint to make a game this year.  Went to the Geneseo-New Paltz SUNYAC tilt the other night and will try to make a Vassar game and if VC hosts the Liberty League tourney I will try to go to that.  My concession to myself is that if Ithaca's men or women make the NCAA Tournament and are sent in a direction that is east and/or south of Ithaca, I will do my best to go there.

So you live in the eastern part of the state, i.e., Hudson Region? AUPepBand has in-laws in Wappingers Falls-Fishkill area near Newburgh-Beacon Bridge.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 23, 2007, 11:45:46 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 23, 2007, 10:17:50 PM
Empire 8 Standings as of Tonight's Results:

Utica 5-0
Fisher 3-2
Ithaca 3-2
RIT 3-2
Alfred 3-2
Naz 2-3
Elmira 1-4
Hartwick 0-5


Should be an interesting season with five teams competing for three spots. I think we're learning that Fisher needs to do more than just show up this year in order to get W's. Keep in mind they were also in danger against RIT and trailed by double-digits against Naz before pulling those games out. I think spots 2-6 are up for grabs.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 23, 2007, 11:57:55 PM
I wouldnt go as far as saying the 2-6 spot are up for grabs...i would say the 3-6 are...Fisher had a let down game hopefully...i would be shocked if FIsher finished anything but 2...Yes i know they were behind in games and came back...they just do not seem to show up for the first half...Utica could only manage a victory in double OT at home to knock of the Fish...This loss does hurt Fisher and utica just has to go undefeated against everyone else to host but i do not think that will happen...I can see RIT at home beating Utica...anyways, its way to early to say that 2-6 is open but one more fall by Fisher and I might be agreeing...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 24, 2007, 12:53:38 AM
Alfred 51, St. John Fisher 50

Fantastic inspiration for the Hartwick Hawks. Great job Alfred! The Hartwick Hawks have too much history in their program to fold like a cheap suit. I have no doubt they will win again, particulary against Elmira and Alfred (Game 1 was a fluke). This is not to say that something could fall their way at Naz and RIT this weekend.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 24, 2007, 02:10:14 AM
Quote from: postup101 on January 24, 2007, 12:53:38 AM
Alfred 51, St. John Fisher 50

Fantastic inspiration for the Hartwick Hawks. Great job Alfred! The Hartwick Hawks have too much history in their program to fold like a cheap suit. I have no doubt they will win again, particulary against Elmira and Alfred (Game 1 was a fluke). This is not to say that something could fall their way at Naz and RIT this weekend.



Thanks, MadHawk.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 24, 2007, 07:38:53 AM
What the....
Did i read that right?
AU beat Fisher last night?
Dear god- is this what the season has come to?
No offense AU guys- you played your hearts out- but dear god- this certainly isnt the Fisher team of old.
Proud alum is very disappointed.
Too bad- when is Footbal season?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 24, 2007, 08:45:15 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 23, 2007, 09:18:35 PM
Baltz is lighting it up in the 2nd half puts fisher up 2 with 8 to play, this one is over.

Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 24, 2007, 07:38:53 AM
What the....
Did i read that right?
AU beat Fisher last night?
Dear god- is this what the season has come to?
No offense AU guys- you played your hearts out- but dear god- this certainly isnt the Fisher team of old.
Proud alum is very disappointed.
Too bad- when is Footbal season?

And that's why everyone here who isn't a Fisher fan loves when Fisher loses.  This team has 4 losses and now the sky is falling.

After watching the first RIT/Fisher matchup I knew this would be a happy year on the board for the non-Fisher fans.  Fisher probably has another loss or two left for them in conference play, and it would take a colossal choke job by Utica to give homecourt in the E8 tourney away.  That being said, Naz, RIT, and Fisher are all capable of beating them at home (and you can count on at least one of them doing so). 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 24, 2007, 09:03:31 AM
Bamm, I agree, a young team is going to probably faulter again in making another so called suprise loss.  It has always been tough to get up for the game on a tuesday down at alfred, in the past Fisher teams I dont think could have lost if they tried, so they came out with victories.  The loss last night as much as it is still hard to fathem Fisher losing to alfred, its not all that suprising.  Fisher this year is a team that can lose to almost anybody and does not have the firepower to blow people out.  However, they can probably beat the best teams out of the conference than any other as they have good big men, play good D, and only if their goods play beyond their means.  But other then that, your right 2-6 is up for grabs, should be interesting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 24, 2007, 09:47:45 AM
I was only saying that this is not a typical Fisher team and yes Fisher fans have been spoiled with recent success.
I know- all in good time- but it still stings.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 24, 2007, 10:43:33 AM
Quote from: postup101 on January 24, 2007, 12:53:38 AM
Alfred 51, St. John Fisher 50

Fantastic inspiration for the Hartwick Hawks. Great job Alfred! The Hartwick Hawks have too much history in their program to fold like a cheap suit. I have no doubt they will win again, particulary against Elmira and Alfred (Game 1 was a fluke). This is not to say that something could fall their way at Naz and RIT this weekend.



What history are you referring to?

Is it the history since the 1998-99 season, during which Hartwick has gone 58-148, including this year's current 7-9 record?

Or is it the history of the Nick Lambros era (20 years from 1977-78 season to 1997-98), when the Hawks were 353-191?

Hartwick also has not had a season with single-digit losses since the 1995-96 season when it was 17-9, has not had a season with a winning record since the 1999-00 year with a 14-12 mark.

This year Hartwick is 7-9, with a 7-game losing streak.

I'd say the school's recent history has seen plenty of folding.

I'm not trying to get down on what Culpo is doing there, because I think he means well and is trying to rebuild a program, but there have been chemistry issues since he arrived. I think the mix of talent he's brought in -- and there's been plenty of talent -- has not been able to mesh, causing issues in the wins department.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 24, 2007, 12:24:04 PM
If you log onto http://www.hartwick.edu/x2742.xml you find the history of Hartwick Hawks.

Here are some highlights:

-Out of 75 season, Hartwick has had 50 win seasons (.67%)
-From 1946-47 to 1996-1997 (50 Seasons), Hartwick only had 5 losing seasons
-Between Nick Lambros (353-191) and Roy Chipman (167-52) the Hawks went on a 21 year role going 544-243 (.691%).

-The 75 year combined winning percentage is .580

Within the Empire 8, Hartwick is the oldest and most decorated basketball institution (based on program history).

--------------------
I think Coach Culpo has done a great job with recruiting, all things considering. Before coming to Hartwick Coach Culpo gained recruiting experience at UMASS and also overseas. Since coming to Hartwick, Coach Culpo has dealt with numerous issues beyond his control when it comes to rebuilding the program. If money wasn't an issue Coach Culpo would probably be competing with a championship caliber team. With Culpo's recruiting skills and the rich basketball tradition at Hartwick he is the right man for the job, providing he is given the right resources.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 24, 2007, 12:37:11 PM
Postup101--

When you've been doing nothing but sucking relentlessly for the past 9 years, or since the members of Hartwick's senior class were in junior high, you lose the right to bore the rest of us with your claims of "tradition."

AUPepBand--

Had a summer job in Fishkill back in the day.  I live on the other side of the river about 50 minutes from there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 24, 2007, 02:38:40 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 24, 2007, 12:37:11 PM
Postup101--

When you've been doing nothing but sucking relentlessly for the past 9 years, or since the members of Hartwick's senior class were in junior high, you lose the right to bore the rest of us with your claims of "tradition."

The past 9 seasons account for 12% of the overall history of Hartwick Basketball program. What about the remaining 88% or 66 seasons? Hartwick has every right to call its basketball program a rich tradition. Oh and by the way the program winning percentage before our 9 skid was .624. Talk about a Tradition!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 24, 2007, 04:02:31 PM
hahaha...i can't hate postup...the fact that he is still fighting the goodfight for a laughable program is kind of admirable...rumble on postup rumble on....anyways what are the matchups for this week...who does utica play and where...and what about the other 2-6 teams in the empire 6...i mean 8...sorry elmira and hartwick...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 24, 2007, 04:06:13 PM
Utica and Hartwick make trips to RIT and Naz.
Elmira and Ithaca go to Fisher and Alfred.

If Utica sweeps this weekend (I don't think they will), get ready for the first E8 tourney outside of Rochester.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 24, 2007, 04:54:30 PM
POST-UP:
AUPepBand can't argue with you about Hartwick's basketball tradition. The fact is, Hartwick, at one time, was always winning. In fact, the year AU made it to the NCAA East Regional Finals with a buzzer-beating half-court shot to nip Naz, Pep made the l o n g  trip to Potsdam to see AU, under Coach Ron Frederes, get thumped by Potsdam before a somewhat intimidating partisan Bear crowd. A Potsdam fan, seeing that AU was no match for his Bears, said, "Hey, Alfred beat Hartwick? How'd they beat Hartwick!" Potsdam was a force at that time and its fans acknowledged Hartwick as a true nemesis and force in D3.

AU has a similar claim in football based on Alex Yunevich's stellar coaching career. But Alex is six feet under. AU must now live in the present. And, Pep is pleased to say that the Saxons are "moving in the right direction" but AU cannot claim a national (or East Regional) football title. Fact is, 50 years ago this week, Coach Yunevich was in Washington, D.C. accepting from the Washington Touchdown Club an award acknowledging Alfred as the "National Small College Football Champion" based on its second consecutive undefeated season. Guess one could say that was Alfred's national title.

Suffice it to say, post-up, that Hartwick is, perhaps, moving in the right direction. But D3 posters, for the most part, aren't interested in history, Pep has learned first hand. They are interested in the present. At present, making wild claims that the 'wick can still make ECACs are only jeopardizing your credibility as a poster. AU beat the 'wick by 16 in Oneonta and you call it a fluke? AU has been on the road for 12 of its first 14 games and the Saxons' record shows, now at 5-10. Overall record doesn't matter much with an AQ for the E8....making the E8 Tourney is the first goal and peaking in the tourney is of equal importance.

Best of luck to you and your Hawks!


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on January 24, 2007, 05:22:42 PM
AU- good post.  Post-up I love your optimism but you'd be best served tempering it with some realism. Right now with both the LL and the E8 in a muddled mess (with the exception of Utica) everyone has a loss or two I think the chances of at large bids are severely reduced unless someone goes a tear.  That being said if league champions hold true to form and win their respective playoffs that leaves a lot of teams vying for those 8 ECAC spots. For instance Clarkson at 10-6 is in a free fall right now but they have wins over Utica, Hamilton, RIT, and Oswego and at 1-4 in their league they don't have a much of a chance at anything but an ECAC shot. I just don't see at this point any signature wins at Hartwick to hang an ECAC bid on.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: assassin on January 24, 2007, 09:27:45 PM
Pep, nice work.  What do you think about Alfred's inconistency and underachieving over the past 6-8 years on the court.  They've had some VERY talented teams but for some reason always seem to breakdown.  What do you think was their most talented squad during that time and what are your thoughts on this year's team?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 24, 2007, 10:40:53 PM
I think we need to use the word talented a little more lightly or atleast change the context.  Alfred has not had many talented teams, yes stein and quentin bryant were good the past few years but no others on the team id say were talented, they were okay.  we always say naz is so talented or other teams like hartwick has had talent, what is talent? scoring 20 points on an inconsistent basis on a below average team? the only team in the E8 that i consider to have talent besides Fisher who has made runs in the ncaa, last years utica squad can be considered, and for purposes of this argument a the only talented teams in the E8 in recent years in my opinion that did not do anything was the Naz team with maroney, evans, laseka, shiply, the other big guy and steck and the elmira team with corin jackson, robertson, the 2 really good guards and the big guy in the middle.   Those teams had 5 very good basketball players on their team but could not win the E8.  the word talented team should be used for a team that has five very good players, yeah a few teams in the league the past 4 years has had 2 mayyybe 3 but not more then that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 24, 2007, 11:09:37 PM
Quote from: ROCfan on January 24, 2007, 09:27:45 PM
Pep, nice work.  What do you think about Alfred's inconistency and underachieving over the past 6-8 years on the court.  They've had some VERY talented teams but for some reason always seem to breakdown.  What do you think was their most talented squad during that time and what are your thoughts on this year's team?

Pep would rather not answer that as he has had a rather negative first-hand experience with the AU basketball program and any remarks certainly would be tainted by that. Suffice it to say this year's team appears to be pulling together despite its many adversities and any success to date can be attributed to the team's guts and determination most emphatically at the defensive end. Go Saxons!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 25, 2007, 12:21:08 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 24, 2007, 10:40:53 PM
I think we need to use the word talented a little more lightly or atleast change the context.  Alfred has not had many talented teams, yes stein and quentin bryant were good the past few years but no others on the team id say were talented, they were okay.  we always say naz is so talented or other teams like hartwick has had talent, what is talent? scoring 20 points on an inconsistent basis on a below average team? the only team in the E8 that i consider to have talent besides Fisher who has made runs in the ncaa, last years utica squad can be considered, and for purposes of this argument a the only talented teams in the E8 in recent years in my opinion that did not do anything was the Naz team with maroney, evans, laseka, shiply, the other big guy and steck and the elmira team with corin jackson, robertson, the 2 really good guards and the big guy in the middle.   Those teams had 5 very good basketball players on their team but could not win the E8.  the word talented team should be used for a team that has five very good players, yeah a few teams in the league the past 4 years has had 2 mayyybe 3 but not more then that.

I'd say IC's 2001-02 team was talented with Fischer, Riggins, Miller, Schultz, Wallen, Clifford, et al. That team won the E8 and went toe-to-toe with a very good Alvernia team that was playing in front of a packed gym. I think McGraw called that game (I could be wrong) with Seth Cantor and I remember how bad the officiating was. When I say bad, I mean atrocious. To the point where I think Mullins got ran. You don't see that too often in D3.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 25, 2007, 09:21:57 AM
Utica had a team a few years back with Cichon, Lucas and Adames. A lot of the key and role players of the last few years were Freshmen on that team (Lighthall, Bitetto, Collier). Second seester, UC picked up Tim Troy and Jemar Bryant.  They went from 1-5 to 16-12 and 10-4 in Conference. They ended up missing the NCAA automatic bid by 3 points. They were without a doubt a very talented team.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on January 25, 2007, 10:33:21 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 24, 2007, 11:09:37 PM
Quote from: ROCfan on January 24, 2007, 09:27:45 PM
Pep, nice work.  What do you think about Alfred's inconistency and underachieving over the past 6-8 years on the court.  They've had some VERY talented teams but for some reason always seem to breakdown.  What do you think was their most talented squad during that time and what are your thoughts on this year's team?

Pep would rather not answer that as he has had a rather negative first-hand experience with the AU basketball program and any remarks certainly would be tainted by that. Suffice it to say this year's team appears to be pulling together despite its many adversities and any success to date can be attributed to the team's guts and determination most emphatically at the defensive end. Go Saxons!

The AU teams in the 99-00 thru 01-02 certain had some talent, probably with the 00-01 being the most talented, that year they had a very strong team. With Downing, McKinnon, Stortini, Docteur, Burley, Rogers, Stedman, they were pretty talented. Unfortunately they lost several of these guys to injuries at different times, included Will Smith who didn't even play when they got Downing back. It also didn't help them that Murphy was their coach.

RIT's 99-00 team when they went to the NCAA's was pretty talented as well with Redmond, Butler, Garth Louis, Hagemann, as well as some good freshman such as Stanton coming in off the bench that year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 25, 2007, 10:47:48 AM
Downing, Docteur, McKinnon (He's Tall!) were all talented, not to mention Quentin "Q" Bryant of more recent years. McKinnon was probably more tall than talented, but  Pep remembers him having an absurd number (6 or 8?) of dunks in his home finale. Pep had opportunity to play against him in a few pick-up games and actually is credited with a strip of the big guy.  :o
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DirkDiggler on January 25, 2007, 05:48:08 PM
New to the board.  Know a lot about Fisher basketball from this years team to a couple years ago.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 25, 2007, 07:18:31 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 24, 2007, 04:06:13 PM
Utica and Hartwick make trips to RIT and Naz.
Elmira and Ithaca go to Fisher and Alfred.

If Utica sweeps this weekend (I don't think they will), get ready for the first E8 tourney outside of Rochester.


If Utica wins both games this weekend, I would see no reason to believe that the tourny would not be at UC. They will only have to make one more trip to Rochester, and I just don't see them having too many more losses this year. Even if they lose to Fisher in Rochester, they would still have a huge advantage. one, they would still be in first by a game. and if they do lose another game besides Fisher, I think it would be to a team that will be in top half of the league. With that rediculous tiebreaker in the E8, where it takes your record against the worst team in the league and up...

AU may finish in the top 4 of the league, but I don't see UC slipping up against a team below them. Maybe RIT or Naz can step up and do something this weekend. Either way if Fisher wants a chance to win the league they need to get some help from somebody.

I couldn't be too upset if the tourny was in Utica, they would have earned it the way Fisher has in the past. They are a pretty good team, not as good as they were last year, but they are good enough to win the league. The league is a lot more balanced this year than in years past. Which actually makes for a better season I think. The E8 may not have a team go to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 this year, but the battle for the league should be a good one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 26, 2007, 09:08:21 AM
couldnt agree with you more sjfcards,  looks like this year without tremendous help from other lower tier teams in the E8, the tourny is going to be in Utica (not at fisher for the first time since the tourny existed).  What would be interesting tho, is if fisher ended up having to travel and coming out on top.  We'll see, any of the 4 teams that make the tourny will have a legit shot to win it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DirkDiggler on January 26, 2007, 11:10:49 AM
I think Fisher will continue to struggle in league play if Beigel doesn't pick up the scoring.  I'm not saying he has to drop in 20 a night but last game I think he had 3 and the game before that 5.  I don't think you can win many games with an all conference player not scoring very much.  Yes he rebounds very well and plays hard but I think he has to score it too.  I know he is one of the main focuses for opposing team defenses but he should be able to overcome that.

Moving on, Fisher is finally back at home, hopefully that will get them back on the winning track.  Personally, I think the two league losses comes from believing that other teams won't show up to play because they're St. John Fisher.  Hopefully, they prove me wrong this weekend.

Predictions... Fisher over Elmira by 17 but they will be up big at one point then they will allow Elmira back in the game causing Kornker to whine and complain but eventually Fisher will pull away again.
And on Saturday, I say Fisher over Ithaca by 8

Good Luck
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on January 26, 2007, 11:51:02 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 25, 2007, 12:21:08 AM

I'd say IC's 2001-02 team was talented with Fischer, Riggins, Miller, Schultz, Wallen, Clifford, et al. That team won the E8 and went toe-to-toe with a very good Alvernia team that was playing in front of a packed gym. I think McGraw called that game (I could be wrong) with Seth Cantor and I remember how bad the officiating was. When I say bad, I mean atrocious. To the point where I think Mullins got ran. You don't see that too often in D3.

That was quite the team for Ithaca that year. They definitely got hosed in the NCAA selections and should have been playing at home, as opposed to going to Alvernia in the opening round. The moment I remember most from that season is an Ithaca-St. John Fisher doubleheader at Ben Light (and not broadcasting from an office phone at Nazareth). Fisher and Ithaca were neck and neck on the women's side and probably were going to play for the regular season title that day. But, Fisher had to lose the night before and Ithaca bounced them in a close game in front of a great crowd. Men were in the thick of the Empire 8 race at the time and somehow, the play-by-play guy for WICB, who shall remain nameless, never showed up and I ended up doing the men's game with eight minutes prep. While it ended up being a pretty awful broadcast, Ithaca won and Dane Fischer hit a huge three late to put Ithaca up for good. That was on my basketball demo for the longest time - just the three-pointer. This is right before Fisher's run of super teams as well, so we're not talking about an upset.

Unfortunately, I was not at the Ithaca-Alvernia game. I hedged my bet, because of missed class time, and chose not to drive down to Alvernia on a Thursday night. I hoped the women would beat Ohio Wesleyan, at home, in the second round, and I could go broadcast the sweet 16 game with Seth the following weekend. We all know how that game worked out for Ithaca in the second round. Ironically enough, St. Lawrence, whom Ithaca upset in December, went on to the national championship game that year and I think went through Ohio Wesleyan. The broadcasters for the Ithaca-Alvernia game were John Langeler and the man, the myth, the legend, Jesse Goldberg-Strassler.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 26, 2007, 02:45:00 PM
Predictions for tonight's games?

Mine are Fisher over Elmira, Utica over RIT, Ithaca over Alfred and Naz over Hartwick.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 26, 2007, 03:22:09 PM
Quote from: rjcarter8 on January 26, 2007, 02:45:00 PM
Predictions for tonight's games?

Mine are Fisher over Elmira, Utica over RIT, Ithaca over Alfred and Naz over Hartwick.

Pep would probably agree with those picks. However, Pep will take in the IC-AU contest to see whether the Saxons' having won 3-of-their-last-4 is a trend or a fluke. IC will be a good test of AU's mettle as the Saxons further meddle in the E8 muddled mess behind Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 26, 2007, 04:11:47 PM
John, that Ohio Wesleyan/IC women's second round game is easily one of the top five Ithaca (men or women) games I have ever seen. Even though IC came up short in the end, it was nice to see the gym rocking and there was a tremendous amount of drama in that game. I remember when Alex Ivansheck hit a three to tie the game, that was the loudest I ever heard the Bulb.

Anyways, predictions for this weekend's games:

FRIDAY

Ithaca over Alfred, 62-59 (this is more wishful thinking than anything)
Fisher over Elmira, 78-56
Utica over RIT, 71-64
Naz over Hartwick, 77-72

SATURDAY

Fisher over Ithaca, 70-65
Alfred over Elmira, 69-53
RIT over Hartwick, 76-63
Utica over Naz, 79-71

I feel like I'm gonna nail a score this weekend. I've been very close a couple of times. We will see.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 26, 2007, 04:35:01 PM
E8 Center Comparison (averages)

Jeff Bostic-Ithaca

Points=15.0
Rebs=6.8
Blks=1.53
Steals=1.53
FG%=54.2%
FT%=64.6%

Dan McSweeney-Fisher

Points=13.5
Rebs=7.0
Blks=1.44
Steals=1.56
FG%=58.2%
FT%=67.9%

Tim Bacon-RIT

Points=14.9
Rebs=7.0
Blks=0.38
Steals=1.06
FG%=54.9%
FT%=44.7%


IN-CONFERENCE STATISTICS

Points
1) Jeff Bostic (18.4 ppg)
2) Tim Bacon (15.2 ppg)
3) Dan McSweeney (13.0 ppg)

Rebounds
1) Dan McSweeney (9.0 rpg)
2) Tim Bacon (7.4 ppg)
3) Jeff Bostic (5.8 ppg)

FG%
1) Jeff Bostic (63.8%)
2) Tim Bacon (52.6%)
3) Dan McSweeney (49.1%)

Steals
1) Jeff Bostic (1.4 spg)
1) Dan McSweeney (1.4 spg)
3) Tim Bacon (not listed among leaders)

Blocked Shots
1) Jeff Bostic (2.0 bpg)
2) Dan McSweeney (1.2 bpg)
3) Tim Bacon (not listed among the leaders)

From the looks of it, while close, it looks like Bostic should be the early favorite to be the first team center. A long way to go yet, but that's what the numbers indicate right now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 26, 2007, 04:43:33 PM
I like the comparisons pretty interesting, look like bostic has come a long way especially as of late.  Im hopin to catch the game tomorrow at Fisher.  However, on a side not, first team isnt based on stats alone, just because someone has more stats than another isn't that big of a deal.  Minutes played should be considered as well.  If the stats are close as they are, the Center on the best team should get the nod.  Look at the past 4 year fisher teams, no one averaged more then 12 ppg.  yet they usually get 1-2 players on 1st team with another 2 on 2nd or honerable mention. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 26, 2007, 05:12:34 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 26, 2007, 04:43:33 PM
I like the comparisons pretty interesting, look like bostic has come a long way especially as of late.  Im hopin to catch the game tomorrow at Fisher.  However, on a side not, first team isnt based on stats alone, just because someone has more stats than another isn't that big of a deal.  Minutes played should be considered as well.  If the stats are close as they are, the Center on the best team should get the nod.  Look at the past 4 year fisher teams, no one averaged more then 12 ppg.  yet they usually get 1-2 players on 1st team with another 2 on 2nd or honerable mention. 

I agree with you. However, you're referring to teams that had one conference loss in two seasons. That's not the case with Fisher's team this year. All three of the teams stand at 3-2 in the conference right now. Hence, my reasoning that Bostic should probably be the favorite right now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 26, 2007, 08:53:16 PM
Fisher is taking out all their frustration and anger on Elmira and I must say I feel sorry for Elmira 40-18 fisher  Fisher shooting 41% from behind the arc
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 26, 2007, 09:39:38 PM
My wife could have our baby any day, so I am not traveling with Utica tonight and have to listen to the game on the internet radio link.

Scary times in that game. An RIT cheerleader fell. It sounds like it isn't good. They have called an ambulance. Game has been delayed for quite a while as she is down on the floor. My prayers are with her.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 26, 2007, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 26, 2007, 04:35:01 PM
E8 Center Comparison (averages)

Jeff Bostic-Ithaca

Points=15.0
Rebs=6.8
Blks=1.53
Steals=1.53
FG%=54.2%
FT%=64.6%

Dan McSweeney-Fisher

Points=13.5
Rebs=7.0
Blks=1.44
Steals=1.56
FG%=58.2%
FT%=67.9%

Tim Bacon-RIT

Points=14.9
Rebs=7.0
Blks=0.38
Steals=1.06
FG%=54.9%
FT%=44.7%


IN-CONFERENCE STATISTICS

Points
1) Jeff Bostic (18.4 ppg)
2) Tim Bacon (15.2 ppg)
3) Dan McSweeney (13.0 ppg)

Rebounds
1) Dan McSweeney (9.0 rpg)
2) Tim Bacon (7.4 ppg)
3) Jeff Bostic (5.8 ppg)

FG%
1) Jeff Bostic (63.8%)
2) Tim Bacon (52.6%)
3) Dan McSweeney (49.1%)

Steals
1) Jeff Bostic (1.4 spg)
1) Dan McSweeney (1.4 spg)
3) Tim Bacon (not listed among leaders)

Blocked Shots
1) Jeff Bostic (2.0 bpg)
2) Dan McSweeney (1.2 bpg)
3) Tim Bacon (not listed among the leaders)

From the looks of it, while close, it looks like Bostic should be the early favorite to be the first team center. A long way to go yet, but that's what the numbers indicate right now.


You might want to start thinking about figuring Lighthall into the equation as well. He has good numbers already, and they are going to be better after tonight. I think he already has 18 at this point.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 26, 2007, 09:44:24 PM
The cheerleader is leaving on a stretcher. Let's hope she will be all right. Sounds like she fell head first.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 26, 2007, 09:54:48 PM
Final from McLane Center:
Ithaca 68, Alfred 57

Bombers move to 4-2 in conference play with big match-up tomorrow at Fisher, probably also 4-2 after tonight's encounter with Elmira.

AU drops to 3-3 and will host Elmira tomorrow.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 26, 2007, 10:13:50 PM
Utica beats rit. First win at rit for Coach Goodemote. Final score 91-77.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 26, 2007, 10:14:59 PM
SJF beat Elmira by 30, 91-61.  Bill Lidell with 17 for Fisher (who?) David Nelson with 16 for EC.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 26, 2007, 10:19:52 PM
Herring with 25. Lighthall had 22 despite being questionable for the game. Bryant 10 points (I think he had a double-double). Collier 10 points. Utica was great from the foul line.

Good win for Utica. Lots of assists. I love this team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 27, 2007, 12:45:04 AM
Homestanding Nazareth outlasts a game Hartwick squad, 92-87. Hartwick's Jan Cocozziello leads all scorers with a ridiculous 39 points. Five Naz players score in double-digits, led by Joe Canori's 28. Corey McAdam fills the stat sheet with 17 pts, 8 rebs, 6 assists. Leon Hill comes off the bench for the Flyers and puts up a double-double (10 and 10).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 27, 2007, 09:25:42 AM
good first night of E8 hoops.  i'll start by saying the nazareth basketball program is a joke haha, they need to make some serious coaching changes over there.  On another note, im glad fisher put up a lot of points for once, hopefully they found some confidence in this win and will be able to finish the rest of the season strong.  Also, love to see billy lidell do well, hes a really good kid.  Should be a great game today at Fisher versus Ithaca.  I have Fisher by 7-10, but ya never know what Fisher team is going to show this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: owen on January 27, 2007, 10:06:40 AM
Also, what's with the SUNYAC? Is it me or did they start to get really good teams in just the last few years?
[/quote]

Surprised no one from the SUNYAC board responded to this one.

I'd say it's just the opposite, SUNYAC appears to be a pretty weak conference this year. I mean, Clarkson beats Potsdam in basketball???!!! Say it ain't so!! SUNYAC is really a shadow of what it was in the '70s and '80s when Albany, Buffalo U. & Binghamton were in the conference (all Division I schools now) and of course the Bears seemed to make annual appearances in the NCAA Final 4. 

I'll be moving to Rochester this summer after 23 years living in and around NYC. I can't wait to actually see some of these E-8 games next season.  Think I'll root for Elmira....as no one else seems to. Then I can have debates with Postup re: who is better, Elmira or Hartwick. YAY!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on January 27, 2007, 02:16:27 PM
Owen,
Been pretty well documented on SUNYAC board this season is downer in some ways. Some of recent `established (contending)' teams are in growing mode. Much talent lost from 05-06. Still, current conference has its share of thrills and spills. Race up for grabs. Top to bottom, it's an 'any given night ......'  proposition. For instance, last night saw New Paltz take down leader Geneseo AT Geneseo! That came six days after Geneseo drubbed the Paltz.

Just last season there was a board on this site seeking comment on the better conference, E8 vs. SUNYAC. Good arguments both ways as is usually the case. Not this winter.

Indeed a storied SUNYAC history. Brockport and the Panaggios (sp?) an early monster. And, of course, there was Potsdam era of J. Welsh and Albany era of D. Sauers. Don't believe UBuffalo or Binghamton ever dominated in any way. UB was still trying to determine whether it wanted D1 or D3. At one time went 1, returned to 3, and now 1 again. Others for sure have had their moments.

SUNYAC will be back. Who knows, maybe one of this season's teams will emerge from current mob of mediocrity.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 27, 2007, 04:21:56 PM
Fisher opens the game on a 29-7 run. Looks like Leahy is the only player who showed up for Ithaca. On that note, I'm off to run other errands.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 27, 2007, 05:58:01 PM
Collier with a 3 pointer with 10 seconds left to lift Utica over naz. Ray Bryant with 24 points. Utica 7-0 first time around.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 27, 2007, 06:06:38 PM
Hartwick beats rit.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 27, 2007, 06:07:28 PM
McSweeney has 18 and 15 as Fisher smashes Ithaca 88-59.  Yet another scrumtulescent performance by IC in a big game.  Take a bow, Mullins.  Jeebus.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 27, 2007, 06:39:29 PM
while I understand why you can be upset at Ithaca,  Fisher has to be playing angry so right now I can't think of many teams that could beat fisher playing this way
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 27, 2007, 06:58:22 PM
Also, the Bostic vs Mcsweeney issue should be put to rest. Not even a comparison.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 27, 2007, 06:58:59 PM
AU handles Elmira, 73-58 to move to 4-3 in E8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 27, 2007, 10:28:42 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 27, 2007, 06:58:22 PM
Also, the Bostic vs Mcsweeney issue should be put to rest. Not even a comparison.

Alright, dude, I'm gonna come out and say it, you've been on McSweeney's stuff (I'm keeping it PG) all season. He's an above average player, AT BEST. You're gonna sit there and try to tell me that there's "no comparison" between he and Bostic? Hm, interesting, considering after one time through against ALL the SAME competition, Bostic has better stats pretty much across the board, as was illustrated yesterday. They've both been E8 Player of the Week once.

When it comes to McSweeney, my friend, you are the king of hyperbole. However, I'm not gonna let you run that weak "there's no comparison between the two" garbage in a game where Fisher won by 30. I think everyone knows IC had an off day today. We can leave it at that. I sure hope you're related to McSweeney. This about the fourth or fifth time this year you've gone with this "McSweeney dominate ______" line. I think everyone on Fisher played better than everyone on Ithaca. Still, for you to ignore the entire body of work in the conference--which, fortunately for all rational minds, is what the coaches use in making their decisions--and base your decision on one day, well, I'm not gonna let you get away with that trash.

We know it's gonna be close when it comes to Bostic/Bacon/McSweeney. We all know that. Just admit it, accept it, and move on. McSweeney is pretty good, but so are those other two.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 27, 2007, 11:57:54 PM
RIT is really digging themselves a deep hole, losing all four of their home games so far. They could be in a lot of trouble if the don't right the ship. A telling stat: They nearly doubled Ithaca in rebounds and were only leading by two with under a minute. If you're gonna kill a team on the boards like that, you should be pummeling them. It's gonna be interesting to see how things shake out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 28, 2007, 03:28:44 AM
Gobombers, you are going to hate me for it, but oh well... u hit it right on the nose. 'I think everyone on Fisher played better than everyone on Ithaca. '

Maybe because everyone that plays for fisher is better then everyone on ithaca... and has been for the past few years.  Jim bellis, the ithaca all star wouldn't even have started on fisher.. ever in his career. 

on another note.  Sorry im riding mcsweeney even tho he has seemed overdeserved. I know bostic and i know mcsweeney. If the two ever had to go against each other during pick up Mcsweeney would eat him for lunch. Sounds like hes my boyfriend but just stating what i have observed and would bet all my money on.  When ithaca actually beats fisher instead of coming close in like the 3rd or 4th match up during the year, do some comparisons.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 28, 2007, 11:30:02 AM
so that's now 11+ straight victories over Ithaca do I hear 12
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 28, 2007, 11:30:47 AM
I have to say that this weekend was exactly what Fisher needed. It seemed like they played trying to prove a point this weekend. Obviusly we expect them to beat up on Elmira, but not many teams have beaten them by 30. And then to do the same thing to Ithaca. I know IC is not the cream of the crop in the E8 but they are a decent team. Fisher proved a lot to me this weekend, hopefully they can finish the rest of the season like this. They have 5 of their last 7 games at home, and one of the road games is at Elmira. Fisher is a different team at home.

It will probably not matter for the regular season since Utica seems to have their mind set on hosting the E8 tournament. They got through a tough weekend trip, and a trip that they have been known to drop a few games before. I am interested to see what happens in the Fisher Utica game in a few weeks, if Fisher is playing the way they played this weekend.

I agree with whoever said it earlier, it looks like Fisher is played angry this weekend. When they play at the top of their game like this weekend I think it would be very tough for many teams to beat them.

Anybody want to take a crack at the final 4 teams for the tourny. Outside of Fisher and UC it is kind of a close call.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 28, 2007, 12:20:18 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 28, 2007, 03:28:44 AM

Maybe because everyone that plays for fisher is better then everyone on ithaca... and has been for the past few years.  Jim bellis, the ithaca all star wouldn't even have started on fisher.. ever in his career. 


You lose credibility each time you talk and say garbage like that. If you think Mike McGee is even in the same league as Bellis as a basketball player, I suggest you take off maroon and gold-tinted glasses and learn a bit about basketball. I can guarantee you eight coaches in the conference disagree with your statement about Bellis not being able to start on Fisher. What a joke.

I think Bostic is a better player than McSweeney right now and, after one round through the E8, that's being shown. Also, in two years when Bostic is a senior, everyone will be laughing that this is even a conversation. You "know" Bostic? What do you know about him? What the box score tells you?

The kid is a sophomore who didn't even participate in a preseason practice because he was playing football and he's STILL putting up better numbers than McSweeney. How many guys do you think could do that? Sure, everyone on Fisher played better than Ithaca yesterday, but does that mean they're all better players? Of course not. It means they played better yesterday. It was a game for about two minutes. I don't know how many conclusions you can make from a game like that and I think it's a joke that you make such blanket statements like "it's not even a comparison between McSweeney and Bostic" after a game like that.

Remember how you talked about McSweeney "dominating" Bacon in their first matchup and then Bacon handed it to him about four days later? I suggest you temper your statements a little if you want anyone to think you know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 28, 2007, 12:49:10 PM
Hey guys,
UC is riding a big high according to the Utica OD- that win in Roch cha cha seems to have boosted morale.
Hoping Fisher can put an end to the good mood!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 28, 2007, 01:40:08 PM
This weekend featured two solid performances by the Hartwick Hawks, one resulting in a victory and the other a close lose. Yesterday's win marks the first win of the new year. The Hawks are now officially halfway through the E8 regular season. Unfortunately, their current record is NOT a good indication of just how potent the team can be. While I think the E8 tourney is a long shot for the Hawks, I do think they will make a late season charge (complete with some key upsets).

What is key is the chemistry issues that has plague the Hawks, is finally behind them. Perhaps, what is the most encouraging part of the Hawk renaissance this past weekend is the performance of Jan. It looks like the shooting slump of Mr. Coco is just about over. I think Jan's latest performance has breathed life back into his fellow teamates.

Here are remaining games for the Hawks and their chances of victory:

UTICA (H)....40%
ELMIRA (H)....75%
ITHACA (H)....55%
RIT (H).......... 60%
NAZ (H).........58%
ALFRED (A)... 50%
FISHER (A)... 45%
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 28, 2007, 03:26:51 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 28, 2007, 01:40:08 PM

Here are remaining games for the Hawks and their chances of victory:

UTICA (H)....40%
ELMIRA (H)....75%
ITHACA (H)....55%
RIT (H).......... 60%
NAZ (H).........58%
ALFRED (A)... 50%
FISHER (A)... 45%


Hey Madhawk, I enjoy reading your delusional posts. However, allow me to put some reality back into your life. Here are Hartwick's remaining games and their chances of winning:

at Fisher.....0%
vs Utica.....-10%
vs Ithaca.....3%
vs Naz...25%
vs RIT....10% (sorry, you ain't sweeping them)
at Alfred....5%
vs. Elmira...30%

You ask people to take you seriously and then you post that garbage. While you're more than entitled to your opinion, you waste your time and our time when you say you have a 40% chance of beating Utica. Really? Hartwick would beat Utica two out of every five times they played? Wow, unreal.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 28, 2007, 04:07:12 PM
Post up your on crack...Hartwick hasn't beaten Fisher since at least 2002 so you expect them to have a 45% chance of beating fisher AT fisher....I mean fisher has lost one e8 game at home in the past 3 years
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 28, 2007, 04:10:48 PM
Sorry postup but I have to agree with superman and gobombers here...hartwick just isn't as good as the other teams in the league. I think they could beat Elmira, but they have a 0% chance of beating Fisher at Fisher, and a less likely chance of beating Utica.

There is a reason you have only one win in the league. I love your enthusiasm but come on...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 28, 2007, 04:21:55 PM
Hartwick's chances of victory in those games wouldn't look like that if they were playing the E8's women's teams.  Take your meds, MadPostHawkUp101.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 28, 2007, 05:42:40 PM
Post up I love it just what I need to read before we come to town and kill you guys again.
You have less than 10% chance of winning pal.
I will concede that you may have the best player in the league.  Looking at what Cocozziello did this weekend is pretty amazing.  75 pts.  I am not sure anyone has done that ever in this league.
But he is only 1 guy and Utica is a TEAM.

See you Tuesday night.  My prediction is that I can leave at halftime and check out the Ithaca OState game too.

We may not lose a game this season in the league.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 28, 2007, 05:53:48 PM
wow clear don't get cocky...you still need to travel to fisher... and lets not forget it took double ot and some luck in the first ot for you guys to win at home
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 28, 2007, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on January 28, 2007, 05:42:40 PM
Post up I love it just what I need to read before we come to town and kill you guys again.
You have less than 10% chance of winning pal.
I will concede that you may have the best player in the league.  Looking at what Cocozziello did this weekend is pretty amazing.  75 pts.  I am not sure anyone has done that ever in this league.
But he is only 1 guy and Utica is a TEAM.

See you Tuesday night.  My prediction is that I can leave at halftime and check out the Ithaca OState game too.

We may not lose a game this season in the league.

Well...I suppose it is possible. You have a relative chance for it. I would not count on it. You still have to play Ithaca, and Fisher at Fisher.

Lets not forget that if Dan Mcsweeny boxes out at the end of the first overtime Fisher wins the game at UC. Fisher is a much better team at home than on the road. It is very tough to go undefeated in the league. I can only remember one team doing it in the past few years, Fisher's undefeated team. Also, Fisher's team last year, which was much better than UC's team this year, even lost a game at home. To a team they should have dominated. You also just had a game against Naz that you needed a 3 with 10 seconds left, to win by one.  It is very tough to go undefeated in the league, I wouldn't count on it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on January 28, 2007, 07:45:36 PM
I'm going to go back on the argument about Bostic and McSweeney. Both are good players and both will compete for position on the All-Empire 8 team. I think right now McSweeney is a better player because of experience and playing with a better team. Bostic is still raw and remember there were a lot of games early last year that he didn't even play in. Game wise, he is still a freshmen or a very young sophomore.

I think if Bostic concentrates solely on basketball he could be a dominating force in the Empire 8...but he doesn't concentrate on basketball. He plays both sports which I admire him quite a bit for it. Could McSweeney put up the same numbers if he was a tight end for the Fisher football team?

Two years down the road the give the edge to Bostic but right now I'll throw my chips McSweeney's way. That kills me to say that because I've never liked Fisher but they always have good players.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 28, 2007, 07:51:54 PM
QuoteYou lose credibility each time you talk and say garbage like that. If you think Mike McGee is even in the same league as Bellis as a basketball player, I suggest you take off maroon and gold-tinted glasses and learn a bit about basketball. I can guarantee you eight coaches in the conference disagree with your statement about Bellis not being able to start on Fisher. What a joke.

I think Bostic is a better player than McSweeney right now and, after one round through the E8, that's being shown. Also, in two years when Bostic is a senior, everyone will be laughing that this is even a conversation. You "know" Bostic? What do you know about him? What the box score tells you?

The kid is a sophomore who didn't even participate in a preseason practice because he was playing football and he's STILL putting up better numbers than McSweeney. How many guys do you think could do that? Sure, everyone on Fisher played better than Ithaca yesterday, but does that mean they're all better players? Of course not. It means they played better yesterday. It was a game for about two minutes. I don't know how many conclusions you can make from a game like that and I think it's a joke that you make such blanket statements like "it's not even a comparison between McSweeney and Bostic" after a game like that.

Remember how you talked about McSweeney "dominating" Bacon in their first matchup and then Bacon handed it to him about four days later? I suggest you temper your statements a little if you want anyone to think you know what you're talking about.


Time for me to throw my two cents...whether I think mcsweeney dominates anyone in the E8 is irrelevant...However I do think he is the best big man in the league....I have seen Bacon and Bostic play...Bacon more so since he has been in the league longer...I like Bacons game but I would pick Mcsweeney over him anyday...I have not done any reserach on bostic but I did see Fisher games last year and I do not really remember him playing...he was a freshman however and bellis was their stud...I would easily take mcsweeney over bostic just because he is more experienced and a better player...Comparing stats against Fisher is not a valid argument...No one from Fisher ever has knock you out numbers because usually Fisher is blowing teams out and their starters do not play entire games...case in point, the last to E8 POY's average only 14pts = Sydney and like 12 = SOB so from your argument Jan Coco would be better since his stats were higher...If there was more parity in the league (IE Fisher having more than 1-2 losses per year in the E8) then we can compare stats around the board...but because Fisher and now Utica are the two frontrunners of the league you can really only compare what your players did against the best competition...I am not interested in any stats against teams like Hartwick and Elmira...because those are usually gimme games...Also, Ithaca got blown out at Fisher...B4 anymore arguments against Bostic being better lets wait and see the game at Ithaca...Lastly, taking Bellis over Mike Mcgee, I am not sure if this is clear cut...Do I think Bellis would have started over Mike at Fisher, no because Mike was the better fit at the position...There is no way you can argue that Bellis is a better shooter than Mike...You could make an argument that Bellis is the better player overall, but since FIsher already had the other attributes and MIke (no debate) was a better shooter I think all the other E8 coaches, given the exact fisher team, would have bellis coming off the bench...anyways...sorry for the rant,

Lastly...predictions the rest of the way, Fisher will not lose another E8 game...Utica will have one loss and that will be to Fisher at home and will host the tourney...Normally I would say RIT would be a shoe in the tournament but who knows after another crucial loss...The 3-6 spots I would have to say that Alfred and Naz will be left out of the tourney...(another dissapointing year for them)----and I am sorry but Jan Coco is nowhere near the best player in the league...he is a little above average player playing on a terrible team...anyone who is good is going to put up numbers because who else do they have...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 28, 2007, 08:23:35 PM
I wish I had seen Jeff Bostic play so I could feel qualified to weigh in on this discussion, it would allow me to avoid talking about the depressing result on Saturday at Clark Gym.  RIT found a way to blow a twelve point second half lead.  To cap a wonderful day of basketball off for me, Syracuse topped them by giving away a game they once led by 14 (in the second half) against Louisville. 

With conference play at the midpoint, the Tigers will need to turn it on.  They are currently a game back of a tourney spot, but because of the weird E8 tiebreakers the loss to Hartwick is especially damaging.  They'll need to defeat Ithaca, Hartwick, and Naz this time around.  Are they capable of doing this?  Clearly.  Will they?  Given their inconsistency, it's not prudent to make any predictions about this team at this point.

Postup, if getting the board riled up is your mission, consider it accomplished.  Well done.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 28, 2007, 08:27:54 PM
Quote from: dmcclintock on January 28, 2007, 07:51:54 PM

Time for me to throw my two cents...whether I think mcsweeney dominates anyone in the E8 is irrelevant...However I do think he is the best big man in the league....I have seen Bacon and Bostic play...Bacon more so since he has been in the league longer...I like Bacons game but I would pick Mcsweeney over him anyday...I have not done any reserach on bostic but I did see Fisher games last year and I do not really remember him playing...he was a freshman however and bellis was their stud...I would easily take mcsweeney over bostic just because he is more experienced and a better player...Comparing stats against Fisher is not a valid argument...No one from Fisher ever has knock you out numbers because usually Fisher is blowing teams out and their starters do not play entire games...case in point, the last to E8 POY's average only 14pts = Sydney and like 12 = SOB so from your argument Jan Coco would be better since his stats were higher...If there was more parity in the league (IE Fisher having more than 1-2 losses per year in the E8) then we can compare stats around the board...but because Fisher and now Utica are the two frontrunners of the league you can really only compare what your players did against the best competition...I am not interested in any stats against teams like Hartwick and Elmira...because those are usually gimme games...Also, Ithaca got blown out at Fisher...B4 anymore arguments against Bostic being better lets wait and see the game at Ithaca...Lastly, taking Bellis over Mike Mcgee, I am not sure if this is clear cut...Do I think Bellis would have started over Mike at Fisher, no because Mike was the better fit at the position...There is no way you can argue that Bellis is a better shooter than Mike...You could make an argument that Bellis is the better player overall, but since FIsher already had the other attributes and MIke (no debate) was a better shooter I think all the other E8 coaches, given the exact fisher team, would have bellis coming off the bench...anyways...sorry for the rant,


1) Try something: Paragraphs.

2) See first bold-faced comment above. Can Fisher fans please, please stop talking about their teams of the past two years. Honestly, it's over. They were great years, you got your props when it happened, but it's time to move on. God, I picture some of you guys in twenty years sitting around a bar talking about the "glory days" of Fisher basketball and how they were "robbed" by not being able to host a Regional in either year. Let it go. I know it's hard, but, hate to break it to you guys, nobody except your own fans want to hear about it anymore.

Secondly, Fisher is NOT blowing teams out in the conference this season. No more so than other teams are blowing out some conference opponents. Fisher is nowhere near as balanced as they were in year's past. To compare this Fisher team to the teams of the past two years is comparing (dented) apples to oranges.

Third, when all is said and done, I think most conference followers WILL feel that Cocozziello is better than both SOB and, absolutely 100% better than Jeff Sidney (before we get on our knees for Jeff, keep in mind the guy couldn't even start his sophomore, junior and first half of his senior year because he was inconsistent...not because it was a tribute to Fisher's depth). I'll pause a moment to let some of you Fisher fans get back into your desk chairs that you just fell out of....now, I'll give you a few more seconds to say a few hail mary's for reading what you all view as blasphemy. Ok, we're good.

You take a guy like Coco, who has probably seen every defensive look imaginable, then you look at his numbers and his shooting percentages and it's sick how well he has done so far in his career. If he keeps this pace up, I'd assume (w/out looking) that he has a real shot, albeit an outside one, at 2,000 points. You Fisher guys can poo-poo his accomplishments all you want because he's on a bad team, but I promise you that nobody who has been at Fisher in the last 5-10 years could put up those type of numbers on that team.

3) I refuse to even entertain a Mike McGee vs Jim Bellis conversation. It must have been nice to never, ever have to create your own shot, which is a luxury that Bellis did not have. Is McGee a better shooter than Bellis? Sure, but Matt Carroll is also a better shooter than Carmelo Anthony, does that make him a better player?

I'll put it this way: I will laugh in your face each and every time you try to make the argument that a stand-still shooter who couldn't create his own shot or guard his own shadow on the defensive end is better than a player who pretty much carried a team on his back for two years like Bellis did. Bellis is one of the best athletes this league has seen in awhile. It makes me ill to even think he's being compared to a guy like Mike McGee. What a joke.

4) You Fisher guys make decent arguments about McSweeney. I'm not solely pointing at stats here. Bostic has made several clutch shots for them this season and kept them in games they probably should not have been in. How do you measure that? He was the ECAC MVP last year and has probably been the most improved player in the league over the last 52 weeks. You guys are entitled to your own opinions but to make it sound like it "isn't even close" is preposterous.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 28, 2007, 08:43:51 PM
Gobombers, you are a veteran of this board.  I can't believe you haven't learned the rules yet:

1)  Fisher's players are the best in the league.  In fact, the Empire 8 All-Stars should play Fisher every season for the title.
2)  Fisher only loses when their players have an "off-night" (Utica, Rochester) or are railroaded by the NCAA (Potsdam, Amherst).  Not because they weren't the better team.
3)  Players on other teams are cute, like a little puppy humping your leg, but please, the Fisher players are demi-gods.
4)  Mike McGee never missed a shot in his career. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 28, 2007, 10:21:48 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 28, 2007, 08:43:51 PM
Gobombers, you are a veteran of this board.  I can't believe you haven't learned the rules yet:

1)  Fisher's players are the best in the league.  In fact, the Empire 8 All-Stars should play Fisher every season for the title.
2)  Fisher only loses when their players have an "off-night" (Utica, Rochester) or are railroaded by the NCAA (Potsdam, Amherst).  Not because they weren't the better team.
3)  Players on other teams are cute, like a little puppy humping your leg, but please, the Fisher players are demi-gods.
4)  Mike McGee never missed a shot in his career. 


Sounds a lot like the Ithaca talk on the football board...but you guys are probably right Fisher sucks this year, and has no good players...just kidding boys, take it easy

I tend to agree with gobombers and and bamm about the players discussion. I think Coco is probably the best player in the league...better than Jeff Sydney, probably...better than first team all american SOB...well I don't know what all american team Coco made but maybe some one can let me know?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 28, 2007, 10:53:45 PM
Go bombers, I actually agree with a lot you have to say.  I know it seems like all we talk about is fisher fisher fisher.  However, I think i have a descent view on the league, with a little bias, but hey who doesn't.  All that I ask is just put things in context specially about players with what team they are on.  Im not going to argue about it anymore, but if you new mike, he could do a lot more than just shoot, if you try to guard him one on one, he will score on anyone, either by shooting, two dribble jumper, or taking it to the basket.  What you guys fail to realize is, he had a role and played the role on the team to make it better.  The do disagree with the coco thing as well, I think coco is a very good tough player who can put up tons of points.  However, Sidney when he was playing his game was also unstopable, and sean controlled games, idk tough to argue, the players played on very different teams and play different.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 29, 2007, 12:11:00 AM
QuoteThird, when all is said and done, I think most conference followers WILL feel that Cocozziello is better than both SOB and, absolutely 100% better than Jeff Sidney (before we get on our knees for Jeff, keep in mind the guy couldn't even start his sophomore, junior and first half of his senior year because he was inconsistent...not because it was a tribute to Fisher's depth). I'll pause a moment to let some of you Fisher fans get back into your desk chairs that you just fell out of....now, I'll give you a few more seconds to say a few hail mary's for reading what you all view as blasphemy. Ok, we're good.

You take a guy like Coco, who has probably seen every defensive look imaginable, then you look at his numbers and his shooting percentages and it's sick how well he has done so far in his career. If he keeps this pace up, I'd assume (w/out looking) that he has a real shot, albeit an outside one, at 2,000 points. You Fisher guys can poo-poo his accomplishments all you want because he's on a bad team, but I promise you that nobody who has been at Fisher in the last 5-10 years could put up those type of numbers on that team.


Obviously the Fisher issue is a sensitive subject, all i was trying to do was convey the point that a measure of a players can be solely on stats...I have seen coco play and nothing he ever did screamed to me to be this unstoppable force...also, if he is so unstoppable his team shouldnt have what 1 win in the E8...sorry but the most important column I look at is the W one, and it is just my opinion that if someone is so good like you are hyping up coco to be than his team should have a little more w's...sorry I just can't look past it...and by the way, you can no longer call out anyone for being all over a players since your recents rants about coco
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: zola on January 29, 2007, 01:11:40 AM
Always check out the board; rarely post here.

Just want to thank Gobombers and bamm for the most lucid, entertaining posts of the season.

Every year we deal with the Great Jerry Welsh Conspiracy Theory on the SUNYAC board - and God forbid, now that Murphy worked a short stint at SUNYIT - his rep has crawled over form the Liberty.

Keep up the good fight against the puptenters of yesteryear.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 29, 2007, 09:49:07 AM
The reality is that this board is divided into two societies:

"In Cast" --> (People who associate with Fisher, Utica, Ithaca, RIT, Naz, Alfred)

"Out Cast" --> (People who associate with Hartwick, Elmira)

Whatever I post, no matter what I say, is met with instantaneous rejection, disrespect, and a condescending tone. I don't appreciate this vicious, borderline hazing, and disrespectful treatment

I respect everyone on this board and what they have to say. However,  I am not getting this same respect in return. I may not agree with everything that is said here, but I am HIGHLY respectful. Most of you may not agree with I have to say, but at least respect my opinion. If you oppose my post, please gladly offer your detailed justification.

I DEMAND to be treated the SAME WAY whether Hartwick is in first place or last place. Please NO "Team" Profiling. All of you respect each other, please respect me the same way.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 29, 2007, 09:49:17 AM
Madhawk-
I need more input on wick this season.
Oh- i meant post up.
Stellar season btw
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 29, 2007, 10:44:14 AM
Quote from: postup101 on January 29, 2007, 09:49:07 AM
The reality is that this board is divided into two societies:

"In Cast" --> (People who associate with Fisher, Utica, Ithaca, RIT, Naz, Alfred)

"Out Cast" --> (People who associate with Hartwick, Elmira)

Whatever I post, no matter what I say, is met with instantaneous rejection, disrespect, and a condescending tone. I don't appreciate this vicious, borderline hazing, and disrespectful treatment

I respect everyone on this board and what they have to say. However,  I am not getting this same respect in return. I may not agree with everything that is said here, but I am HIGHLY respectful. Most of you may not agree with I have to say, but at least respect my opinion. If you oppose my post, please gladly offer your detailed justification.

I DEMAND to be treated the SAME WAY whether Hartwick is in first place or last place. Please NO "Team" Profiling. All of you respect each other, please respect me the same way.

First off no one from elmira is stupid enough to post on here because they would be laughed out of the place...second of all you get respect by saying accuarte things if you say stupid Sh!t like saying Hartwick has a 40% chance of beating Utica and 45%  chance of beating fisher at Fisher than you will be told that you are on crack


second of all.. is Coco a good player yes absolutly is he better than Sidney yes...is he better than SOB no...but that is nothing against Coco, SOB was an incredible player and really helped fisher...Coco is a great player on a horrible team...would he still be as good if he were on Ithaca or Utica or RIT...who knows... but in all of sports you have to look at winning records when comparing players....I mean in the major leagues we all look down on players who havent won a championship

This is an off year for fisher...they are a very young team relying on an ok star player... McSweeny is ok...nothing other than that...he chokes in big games....

My whole thing with the regionals is that no team should be given the advantage of having a home crowd...because homecrowd is basketball can make a huge difference....did fisher choke in 05 against Potsdamn  good lord did they ever....would it have been different if it had been anywhere else...probably not Potsdam had done their homework and knew how to stop whatever fisher tried to give em...


my predictions are that fisher will beat Utica at home...and then we are gonna hope that Coco can score 81 points tuesday night and beat utica so fisher can host....because if fisher is not hosting I think Utica gets the AQ
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 29, 2007, 11:11:25 AM
Quote from: postup101 on January 29, 2007, 09:49:07 AM
The reality is that this board is divided into two societies:

"In Cast" --> (People who associate with Fisher, Utica, Ithaca, RIT, Naz, Alfred)

"Out Cast" --> (People who associate with Hartwick, Elmira)


Since when is Alfred "In Cast"? AUPepBand certainly doesn't ridicule post-up, MadHawk or whoever wants to post from Hartwick or Elmira or Utica or Naz or anywhere from the E8, for that matter. Pep gave you a sincere honest assessment a week or so ago with what Pep thought was wise counsel ... to post with some realism to add credibility to your words. To that, Pep will add that one must lighten up and be able to take a jab or a flying elbow....and maintain one's poise on the boards.

Pep is probably the most ludicrous poster ever to hit the D3 boards and has dished out more random facts and historic ramblings in which absolutely no one is interested, has been jabbed and elbowed and taken it all with a chuckle. And yet little do these fellow posters understand the intricacies of Pep's communication techniques that one day everyone on these boards will be Alfred fans and will stop and ask themselves, "How did this happen?" "Why did my loyalty to my alma mater fade... why do I love the purple and the gold so much?" "Why do I wish I'd always been a Saxon?"

Perhaps, post-up, posting puppy, promising poster, Pep's prolific posting provides productive patterns for prospective posting pupils to produce pleasing, positive posts positively.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 29, 2007, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 29, 2007, 11:11:25 AM
Quote from: postup101 on January 29, 2007, 09:49:07 AM
The reality is that this board is divided into two societies:

"In Cast" --> (People who associate with Fisher, Utica, Ithaca, RIT, Naz, Alfred)

"Out Cast" --> (People who associate with Hartwick, Elmira)


Since when is Alfred "In Cast"? AUPepBand certainly doesn't ridicule post-up, MadHawk or whoever wants to post from Hartwick or Elmira or Utica or Naz or anywhere from the E8, for that matter. Pep gave you a sincere honest assessment a week or so ago with what Pep thought was wise counsel ... to post with some realism to add credibility to your words. To that, Pep will add that one must lighten up and be able to take a jab or a flying elbow....and maintain one's poise on the boards.

Pep is probably the most ludicrous poster ever to hit the D3 boards and has dished out more random facts and historic ramblings in which absolutely no one is interested, has been jabbed and elbowed and taken it all with a chuckle. And yet little do these fellow posters understand the intricacies of Pep's communication techniques that one day everyone on these boards will be Alfred fans and will stop and ask themselves, "How did this happen?" "Why did my loyalty to my alma mater fade... why do I love the purple and the gold so much?" "Why do I wish I'd always been a Saxon?"

Perhaps, post-up, posting puppy, promising poster, Pep's prolific posting provides productive patterns for prospective posting pupils to produce pleasing, positive posts positively.




HILARIOUS PEP...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 29, 2007, 12:29:06 PM
very well done!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 29, 2007, 01:52:08 PM
I just got back from having a delicious bowl of Chili at my local Quiznos, complete with a homemade bread bowl. While eating lunch I thought about my future involvement here on the Empire 8 message board.

It is quite evident to me that the social acceptance on this board is predicated on the particularly institution that one supports. If one associates them self with a bottom feeding institution, the chances of acceptance is low no matter what is said. Where as if one associates them self with a more successful institution, the chances of acceptance is higher no matter what is said. This practice I am calling "team profiling".

This phenomenon is currently a national epidemic plaguing many successful message boards, like D3hoops.com. Many message boards have reported a decrease in new posters sign ups and participation. This poses a huge problem as many message boards rely on the internet traffic to keep there advertisers happy. D3hoops is no different.

In an effort to be a pioneer and combat this national epidemic, I am officially announcing my new role on D3hoops as internal lobbyist. Over the next couple of days I will be laying out my agenda and goals. I am expecting a significant amount of push back, but that is too be expected

Stay tuned...

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 29, 2007, 02:10:40 PM
post up you really are on crack....Ithaca and Fisher posters really don't have much nice to say about each other...and just about everyone else hates the fisher posters....and then their is clear who every once in a while makes a stupid comment but over is a good representation of Utica...just make good comments and don't be a homer and you'll be fine...read over your posts and you'll understand
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 29, 2007, 02:13:12 PM
Pep proposes that the phenomenon plaguing posting participants pioneering powerful posts promoting poor programs perhaps produces paranoia.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 29, 2007, 02:19:04 PM
Can anyone guess what AUPepBand's favorite letter of the alphabet might be?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 29, 2007, 03:54:56 PM
wow this board is gotten pretty immature the last few hours. Post what has been said before 'are you on crack'? I can't even begin to try to imagine how much of a dork you must be in person, oh my. Anyways, can we keep the talk to basketball, guys havn't you learned to ignore him by now, its not even worth the response.  that being said, any good games coming up before the weekend?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 29, 2007, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 29, 2007, 02:19:04 PM
Can anyone guess what AUPepBand's favorite letter of the alphabet might be?

A?

Man, I love MadHawk.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 29, 2007, 04:17:17 PM
pep must really like to p


ha who really takes this site seriously...to think about it at lunch time...I always think about it while I'm supossed to be working or something like that...Lunch is when I talk to friends or in postup's world the imaginary people that sit on his shoulder
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on January 29, 2007, 04:26:22 PM
The Chairman has been on extended hiatus but came up for air long enough to catch this recent discussion.  It is the chairman's perception that all E8 fans, in both football and basketball, think they and their team are getting slighted by all the rest of the fans.

On a basketball note:  The Chairman is getting very excited about this crop of Sophomores playing for the Bombers...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 29, 2007, 04:58:47 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 29, 2007, 09:49:07 AM
The reality is that this board is divided into two societies:

"In Cast" --> (People who associate with Fisher, Utica, Ithaca, RIT, Naz, Alfred)

"Out Cast" --> (People who associate with Hartwick, Elmira)

Whatever I post, no matter what I say, is met with instantaneous rejection, disrespect, and a condescending tone. I don't appreciate this vicious, borderline hazing, and disrespectful treatment

I respect everyone on this board and what they have to say. However,  I am not getting this same respect in return. I may not agree with everything that is said here, but I am HIGHLY respectful. Most of you may not agree with I have to say, but at least respect my opinion. If you oppose my post, please gladly offer your detailed justification.

I DEMAND to be treated the SAME WAY whether Hartwick is in first place or last place. Please NO "Team" Profiling. All of you respect each other, please respect me the same way.


You can't be serious. We love elmira.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 29, 2007, 05:17:53 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 29, 2007, 04:58:47 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 29, 2007, 09:49:07 AM
The reality is that this board is divided into two societies:

"In Cast" --> (People who associate with Fisher, Utica, Ithaca, RIT, Naz, Alfred)

"Out Cast" --> (People who associate with Hartwick, Elmira)

Whatever I post, no matter what I say, is met with instantaneous rejection, disrespect, and a condescending tone. I don't appreciate this vicious, borderline hazing, and disrespectful treatment

I respect everyone on this board and what they have to say. However,  I am not getting this same respect in return. I may not agree with everything that is said here, but I am HIGHLY respectful. Most of you may not agree with I have to say, but at least respect my opinion. If you oppose my post, please gladly offer your detailed justification.

I DEMAND to be treated the SAME WAY whether Hartwick is in first place or last place. Please NO "Team" Profiling. All of you respect each other, please respect me the same way.


You can't be serious. We love elmira.

Who doesn't love two automatic Ws on their schedule every year?

btw, MadHawk, I DEMAND...that you grow a pair, sweetheart.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 29, 2007, 06:09:24 PM
wow...what is all this talk of hate and respect. come on boys...

Ithaca posters hate Fisher posters because Fisher has found a way to beat them in Football and baksetball recently..and Fisher fans always jab at them for it.

Fisher posters hate Ithaca posters, and jab at them all the time, because they beat everybody at everything...and we have to pounce when we can.

everyone is going to have a problem with other teams posters because they are posting against their team by defination. Postup, no one is outcasting you because you like Hartwick. We are outcasting you because no one takes you seriously because of the unrealistic things you say.

Lets all move on...from here on I love Ithaca, RIT, and all the other teams in the league...how about we talk about the basketball.

Now seriously...what do people honestly think the chances of Hartwick beating Utica tomorrow? I give it about a 5% chance, maybe 10% if Coco goes crazy and scores a million points or something. Does anybody else play tomorrow?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 29, 2007, 06:28:25 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 29, 2007, 01:52:08 PM
I just got back from having a delicious bowl of Chili at my local Quiznos, complete with a homemade bread bowl. While eating lunch I thought about my future involvement here on the Empire 8 message board.

It is quite evident to me that the social acceptance on this board is predicated on the particularly institution that one supports. If one associates them self with a bottom feeding institution, the chances of acceptance is low no matter what is said. Where as if one associates them self with a more successful institution, the chances of acceptance is higher no matter what is said. This practice I am calling "team profiling".

This phenomenon is currently a national epidemic plaguing many successful message boards, like D3hoops.com. Many message boards have reported a decrease in new posters sign ups and participation. This poses a huge problem as many message boards rely on the internet traffic to keep there advertisers happy. D3hoops is no different.

In an effort to be a pioneer and combat this national epidemic, I am officially announcing my new role on D3hoops as internal lobbyist. Over the next couple of days I will be laying out my agenda and goals. I am expecting a significant amount of push back, but that is too be expected

Stay tuned...




I will disagree with this statement. This is not only a d3hoops board, but also a d3football board, and I support Utica for both, but mostly football. Am I a homer? A little bit, sure. But I also know that in football, Utica right now is not a great team and hopefully they can progress. Despite my leaning toward a team that isn't playoff material, I am not ridiculed for where my loyalty lies. I think you would get that same feeling from many other posters on d3hoops and d3football.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 29, 2007, 07:00:58 PM
Quote from: budcrew08 on January 29, 2007, 06:28:25 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 29, 2007, 01:52:08 PM
I just got back from having a delicious bowl of Chili at my local Quiznos, complete with a homemade bread bowl. While eating lunch I thought about my future involvement here on the Empire 8 message board.

It is quite evident to me that the social acceptance on this board is predicated on the particularly institution that one supports. If one associates them self with a bottom feeding institution, the chances of acceptance is low no matter what is said. Where as if one associates them self with a more successful institution, the chances of acceptance is higher no matter what is said. This practice I am calling "team profiling".

This phenomenon is currently a national epidemic plaguing many successful message boards, like D3hoops.com. Many message boards have reported a decrease in new posters sign ups and participation. This poses a huge problem as many message boards rely on the internet traffic to keep there advertisers happy. D3hoops is no different.

In an effort to be a pioneer and combat this national epidemic, I am officially announcing my new role on D3hoops as internal lobbyist. Over the next couple of days I will be laying out my agenda and goals. I am expecting a significant amount of push back, but that is too be expected

Stay tuned...




I will disagree with this statement. This is not only a d3hoops board, but also a d3football board, and I support Utica for both, but mostly football. Am I a homer? A little bit, sure. But I also know that in football, Utica right now is not a great team and hopefully they can progress. Despite my leaning toward a team that isn't playoff material, I am not ridiculed for where my loyalty lies. I think you would get that same feeling from many other posters on d3hoops and d3football.

agreed budcrew...It is not the team you cheer for, it is the statements you make.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 29, 2007, 08:40:21 PM
....yes, and by now everyone on these boards has come to the inevitable conclusion that ALFRED is the best!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 29, 2007, 09:26:25 PM
so superman is going to start the e8 "Your on Crack award this weeks nominees"

Clearandconceit for
Quote from: clearconceit on January 28, 2007, 05:42:40 PM
Post up I love it just what I need to read before we come to town and kill you guys again.
You have less than 10% chance of winning pal.
I will concede that you may have the best player in the league.  Looking at what Cocozziello did this weekend is pretty amazing.  75 pts.  I am not sure anyone has done that ever in this league.
But he is only 1 guy and Utica is a TEAM.

See you Tuesday night.  My prediction is that I can leave at halftime and check out the Ithaca OState game too.

We may not lose a game this season in the league.

Postup101 for this statement
Quote from: postup101 on January 28, 2007, 01:40:08 PM
This weekend featured two solid performances by the Hartwick Hawks, one resulting in a victory and the other a close lose. Yesterday's win marks the first win of the new year. The Hawks are now officially halfway through the E8 regular season. Unfortunately, their current record is NOT a good indication of just how potent the team can be. While I think the E8 tourney is a long shot for the Hawks, I do think they will make a late season charge (complete with some key upsets).

What is key is the chemistry issues that has plague the Hawks, is finally behind them. Perhaps, what is the most encouraging part of the Hawk renaissance this past weekend is the performance of Jan. It looks like the shooting slump of Mr. Coco is just about over. I think Jan's latest performance has breathed life back into his fellow teamates.

Here are remaining games for the Hawks and their chances of victory:

UTICA (H)....40%
ELMIRA (H)....75%
ITHACA (H)....55%
RIT (H).......... 60%
NAZ (H).........58%
ALFRED (A)... 50%
FISHER (A)... 45%


please vote for your faviorite and we will award this weeks "Your on Crack" award
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on January 30, 2007, 12:45:35 AM
mid-season awards???

POY-Ray Bryant i guess

ROY- Corey McAdams

...cant wait to hear the arguments for POY, but ROY should be an EASY selection

FIRST TEAM

jan cococochcocziello('wick)
ray bryant(utica)
dan mueller (sjfc)
tyler smith(naz)
tim bacon (RIT...BARELY over bostic ONLY bc he's a senior)

......thats right....
-coco needs no explanation, neither does ray bryant
-mueller no doubt best shooter in conference. ppl say this about canori but compare fg %'s (mueller has made 5 more three pointers than canori in 24 less attempts)
-smith is putting up big numbers (14pts8rpg
-bacon barely gets it over bostic due to seniority...sucks but thats how it goes (4/5 of last years 1st teamers were seniors (with the exception being 29 yr old ray bryant) even though underclassmen were better than some seniors for sure)

2nd TEAM
corey mcadams (naz)
joe canori(naz)
kenny gethers (RIT)
jeff bostic (IC)
dan mcsweeny(sjfc)

-..mcadams only not first team bc he's a fresh
-bostics putting up damn good numbers and is better than mcsweeny


honorable mention

justin beigel(sjfc)
barret zeinfeld(RIT)
ryan clemenson(alfred)
dillon stein(alfred)
sean burton(IC)
sean stahn(IC)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 30, 2007, 01:32:37 AM
Quote from: e8bballfan on January 30, 2007, 12:45:35 AM
mid-season awards???

POY-Ray Bryant i guess

ROY- Corey McAdams

...cant wait to hear the arguments for POY, but ROY should be an EASY selection

FIRST TEAM

jan cococochcocziello('wick)
ray bryant(utica)
dan mueller (sjfc)
tyler smith(naz)
tim bacon (RIT...BARELY over bostic ONLY bc he's a senior)

......thats right....
-coco needs no explanation, neither does ray bryant
-mueller no doubt best shooter in conference. ppl say this about canori but compare fg %'s (mueller has made 5 more three pointers than canori in 24 less attempts)
-smith is putting up big numbers (14pts8rpg
-bacon barely gets it over bostic due to seniority...sucks but thats how it goes (4/5 of last years 1st teamers were seniors (with the exception being 29 yr old ray bryant) even though underclassmen were better than some seniors for sure)

2nd TEAM
corey mcadams (naz)
joe canori(naz)
kenny gethers (RIT)
jeff bostic (IC)
dan mcsweeny(sjfc)

-..mcadams only not first team bc he's a fresh
-bostics putting up damn good numbers and is better than mcsweeny


honorable mention

justin beigel(sjfc)
barret zeinfeld(RIT)
ryan clemenson(alfred)
dillon stein(alfred)
sean burton(IC)
sean stahn(IC)


You left the best pg in the conference completely off your list. Herring will be first team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 30, 2007, 02:21:10 AM
I think this is a more realistic version of the midseason awards:

POY (in order)
1) Jan Cocozziello(Hartwick)--The numbers are obscene and I think they'll continue to put it all on his shoulders over the last couple of weeks; I think if he can get Hartwick to three or four conference wins (that's a big if), he will be your winner.

2) Doug Herring (Utica)-- Been Utica's rock all year long with Bryant going in and out of the lineup. Has run the best team in the league and put up great numbers, to boot. I could deal with him being the winner right now.

3) Ray Bryant (Utica)-- Nobody is questioning his talent. Maybe he's just biding his time but, from an outsider's perspective, this seems to be Herring's team. If he turns it on over the last month, he could still be the POY.

ROY (in order)
1) Corey McAdam (Naz)--Stats aren't everything but his are disgusting. The kid leads the league in assists/game and, frankly, it's not even close. However, it still seems like he puts those numbers up quietly (if that's even possible). There's an outside chance he may lose out to...

2) Sean Leahy (IC)--Leahy has been named Rookie of the Week four times, while McAdam has earned the award 2.5 times. He doesn't have McAdam's numbers, but if Leahy racks up a couple more Rookie of the Week's, there could be a serious argument. The kid has talent, transferring to IC after playing a year at D1 Albany.

E8 First Team

Doug Herring (UC)
Jan Cocozziello (HC)
Dan McSweeney (SJF)--not saying I agree, but based on seniority, he gets it
Joe Canori (Naz)
Ray Bryant (UC)

E8 Second Team

Tyler Smith (Naz)
Kenny Gethers (RIT)
Jeff Bostic (IC)
Dan Mueller (SJF)
Barrett Zeinfeld (RIT)

Honorable Mention

Tim Bacon (RIT)
Justin Beigel (SJF)
Dillon Stein (AU)
Sean Burton (IC)
Corey McAdam (Naz)
Cory Carson (HC)

Others receiving consideration that could move onto the HM list: Rob McCarter (AU), Jack Lighthall (UC), Ryan Clemenson (AU), Sean Leahy (IC)

I think that's a pretty objective breakdown of where we stand right now. I can see some minor adjustments, however. I hope people don't take this as a slight to players or their teams. I based this on statistics but also gave a team's record some weight, too.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 30, 2007, 08:44:34 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 30, 2007, 02:21:10 AM
I think this is a more realistic version of the midseason awards:

POY (in order)
1) Jan Cocozziello(Hartwick)--The numbers are obscene and I think they'll continue to put it all on his shoulders over the last couple of weeks; I think if he can get Hartwick to three or four conference wins (that's a big if), he will be your winner.

2) Doug Herring (Utica)-- Been Utica's rock all year long with Bryant going in and out of the lineup. Has run the best team in the league and put up great numbers, to boot. I could deal with him being the winner right now.

3) Ray Bryant (Utica)-- Nobody is questioning his talent. Maybe he's just biding his time but, from an outsider's perspective, this seems to be Herring's team. If he turns it on over the last month, he could still be the POY.

ROY (in order)
1) Corey McAdam (Naz)--Stats aren't everything but his are disgusting. The kid leads the league in assists/game and, frankly, it's not even close. However, it still seems like he puts those numbers up quietly (if that's even possible). There's an outside chance he may lose out to...

2) Sean Leahy (IC)--Leahy has been named Rookie of the Week four times, while McAdam has earned the award 2.5 times. He doesn't have McAdam's numbers, but if Leahy racks up a couple more Rookie of the Week's, there could be a serious argument. The kid has talent, transferring to IC after playing a year at D1 Albany.

E8 First Team

Doug Herring (UC)
Jan Cocozziello (HC)
Dan McSweeney (SJF)--not saying I agree, but based on seniority, he gets it
Joe Canori (Naz)
Ray Bryant (UC)

E8 Second Team

Tyler Smith (Naz)
Kenny Gethers (RIT)
Jeff Bostic (IC)
Dan Mueller (SJF)
Barrett Zeinfeld (RIT)

Honorable Mention

Tim Bacon (RIT)
Justin Beigel (SJF)
Dillon Stein (AU)
Sean Burton (IC)
Corey McAdam (Naz)
Cory Carson (HC)

Others receiving consideration that could move onto the HM list: Rob McCarter (AU), Jack Lighthall (UC), Ryan Clemenson (AU), Sean Leahy (IC)

I think that's a pretty objective breakdown of where we stand right now. I can see some minor adjustments, however. I hope people don't take this as a slight to players or their teams. I based this on statistics but also gave a team's record some weight, too.



Both Doug and Ray are great players. At this point, Ray is averaging a double double as a SF. His ppg is slightly higher than Dougs as well.

As far as "in and out of the lineup", he missed 3 games and only 3 games. I have to disagree with your POY choice at this point. In Utica, it isn't about "Who's team" it is. The entire team is unselfish. Doug draws double teams, Ray draws triple teams, and they both pass up opportunities to let their teammates score.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 30, 2007, 09:01:07 AM
Go Bombers, I agree with your projection.  As there are many descent players, they could get adjusted a little bit, and there are more games to play but as of right now i like what you have out there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 30, 2007, 09:08:01 AM
I think that both lists are farely accurate, nothing is set in stone as of you except that Ray will make the first team and I definantly think herring should make it on there...mueller and mcsweeney will vie for first or second team and it will be interesting to see if canori or lil mcadam makes the 1st...I will say that with the numbers that Jan should probably make first if they get more wins but to consider him player of the year with his team having 1 conference win is a little farfetched...IF/probably when Utica wins the league, either Herring or Bryant should get it not someone from a bottom feeding team...However that could all change if hartwick goes undefeated the second time around (not likely)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 30, 2007, 09:40:50 AM
Quote from: dmcclintock on January 30, 2007, 09:08:01 AM
I think that both lists are farely accurate, nothing is set in stone as of you except that Ray will make the first team and I definantly think herring should make it on there...mueller and mcsweeney will vie for first or second team and it will be interesting to see if canori or lil mcadam makes the 1st...I will say that with the numbers that Jan should probably make first if they get more wins but to consider him player of the year with his team having 1 conference win is a little farfetched...IF/probably when Utica wins the league, either Herring or Bryant should get it not someone from a bottom feeding team...However that could all change if hartwick goes undefeated the second time around (not likely)

At what point do you stop disparaging or shrugging off a person's accomplishments for the lack of support surrounding him? Dude averaged 37.5 pts/game this weekend on the road against two solid teams (Naz, RIT). He singlehandedly keeps them in a lot of games. As I said, I can see how the award could be given to Bryant/Herring, but to deem Cocozziello unworthy simply because he plays on a bad team isn't right. I understand that if some of you Fisher guys had your druthers, no players who didn't finish on an elite team (Read Fisher, Utica) would make any of these teams, but you have to accept a person's accomplishments for what they are.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 30, 2007, 09:51:20 AM
GB15 -- I'm with you on the Coco bandwagon.  The guy can score, even though teams can focus on him defensively.

But I want to point out that it's not surprising he lit up Nazareth, considering that team hasn't played defense in at least four years.  And RIT has given up 91, 86, 84, and 79 points in the last four games (RIT was leading the league in defensive scoring average before this stretch). 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 30, 2007, 10:07:43 AM
my opinion is in any sport player of the year should not be given to a player on a team with only one or two wins....if they can win 3 or 4 maybe 5 total games and his ppg his upwards of 30 than I can see it possibily otherwise I think Herring should get it nothing against Bryant...but the pg is the leader of a team and as the pg goes so does the team
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DR. BELLY HOOPS on January 30, 2007, 10:12:26 AM
There is alot being talked about in this confrence. One team that is'nt is Utica. Not only are they the best team in the E8 but they are also the best team in the region. A sweet sixteen appearance last season and looking even better this season; The Pioneers are one of the most exciting D3 teams in the country. Ray Bryant is a man playing with boys and Dennis Munch can take over a game without scoring a point. Doug Herring is good enought to play anywhere and he is only getting smarter on the court. Along with Lighthall playing solid underneath and Collier starting to can some big shots, we can expect huge things for this team to come. -The Doctor
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 30, 2007, 10:42:18 AM
Welcome aboard, Doc....nice to have a new poster here on the E8 thread, and a physician, to boot! No doubt you're a fan of a Utica team that to date is getting it done. Good to know there's a doctor in the house.

In Saxonville a few seasons back, we were happy to boast, "The Docteur Is In!"
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 30, 2007, 10:45:32 AM
Not sure why I am being ridiculed for predicting a possible undefeated season.  We already beat everybody 1st time through - so I don't think it is hat unrealistic.

As for you POST UP I am coming to town tonight!  Can't wait to see the 1st half of the game and then go see Ithaca beat OState becasue we are killing you guys!!!

We beat you with Ray and now you think you have a 40% chance of winning????


Go PIONEERS
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 30, 2007, 10:59:05 AM
What is Hartwick College?

Hartwick College is one of the United States oldest and most prestigious liberal arts colleges. Hartwick is strategically located in Central New York in a town called Oneonta. Not only is Hartwick known for its strong academics, it is also know for its strong athletic tradition.

Who is Postup101?

Postup is an articulate, compassionate, and enthusiastic graduate of Hartwick College. Postup loves Empire 8 basketball, particularly rooting for Hartwick. When not working or watching the Hawks in action Postup enjoys skiing, fishing, golfing, posting on D3hoops.com and long walks on the beach.

How can a person in there own mind vilify, haze, harass Hartwick and their fans?


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 30, 2007, 11:43:51 AM
belly, im not trying to undermine your opinion, I do think utica is one of the better team in the region, the best tho? I highly doubt that, we'll see if they win the league first they barely put away fisher on their home court and lost to a hamilton team that is struggling in the liberty league.  Furthermore, dont forget UofR and NYU are in the region who both in my opinion are better and would beat Utica.  If they do end up beating fisher dont get me wrong, i will be routing for them all the way, but i dont think this utica team is as good last years was, justin cichon and willy lucas were both very good players that made them very good. I dont think any team from the E8 will get past the 2nd round, i hope they do but dont think its likely.

On another note: I agree with dmc, that coco i guess whould probably not get it, he should be considered but 1 win, come on.  Herrig and Bryant dont have the same stats but their stats are good enough and they play on a league contender team. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 30, 2007, 12:02:44 PM
your right ray is a man playing among boys look at his age...  Postup do yourself and Hartwick a favor and shut up...your making a fool of yourself and  soiling the good image of hartwick
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 30, 2007, 12:04:39 PM
Quote from: DR. BELLY HOOPS on January 30, 2007, 10:12:26 AM
There is alot being talked about in this confrence. One team that is'nt is Utica. Not only are they the best team in the E8 but they are also the best team in the region. A sweet sixteen appearance last season and looking even better this season; The Pioneers are one of the most exciting D3 teams in the country. Ray Bryant is a man playing with boys and Dennis Munch can take over a game without scoring a point. Doug Herring is good enought to play anywhere and he is only getting smarter on the court. Along with Lighthall playing solid underneath and Collier starting to can some big shots, we can expect huge things for this team to come. -The Doctor

1) What is there to talk about regarding Utica? I think it has already been said that they're the best team in the conference right now. Do you want the last month of the season to just be a glorified processional for the Pioneers. They are certainly in the driver's seat but will have to exorcise their demons on Fisher's home floor (which I don't think they'll do) and avoid slipping up elsewhere (which I think they'll be able to avoid). In the immortal words of Denny Green, "if you want to crown them, go ahead and crown their a**es." They only beat Naz by two on a shot in the waning seconds and they still struggled against Fisher on their home floor.

2) Utica the best team in the region? I'm not so sure. I'd be interested to see them play against UR, who seems to have hit their stride of late. Heck, I'd like to see them beat Hamilton before I call them the tops in the region. They barely nipped a middle-of-the-pack Oswego team last week. I don't think an undefeated run through the first round of a conference that is mired in mediocrity this year warrants deeming them the top team in the region.

3) "Ray Bryant is a man among boys." Literally. He's 26 or 27 and playing against 18-22 year olds. He is a man, playing against boys.

4) "Doug Herring is good enough to play anywhere." So long as "anywhere" entails a D3 school not ranked in the top 10 or 15. Then, yes, he could play anywhere.

5) "We can expect big things from this team." I still think their ceiling is the Sweet 16.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 30, 2007, 12:07:26 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 30, 2007, 10:59:05 AM
What is Hartwick College?

Hartwick College is one of the United States oldest and most prestigious liberal arts colleges. Hartwick is strategically located in Central New York in a town called Oneonta. Not only is Hartwick known for its strong academics, it is also know for its strong athletic tradition.

Who is Postup101?

Postup is an articulate, compassionate, and enthusiastic graduate of Hartwick College. Postup loves Empire 8 basketball, particularly rooting for Hartwick. When not working or watching the Hawks in action Postup enjoys skiing, fishing, golfing, posting on D3hoops.com and long walks on the beach.

How can a person in there own mind vilify, haze, harass Hartwick and their fans?




Here's a message to postup — No matter what you post on here ever again, your past dialogue means you will never — unlike Hartwick, which will turn things around the second time through the E8 — WIN.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 30, 2007, 12:41:32 PM
Quote from: rjcarter8 on January 30, 2007, 12:07:26 PM


Here's a message to postup — No matter what you post on here ever again, your past dialogue means you will never — unlike Hartwick, which will turn things around the second time through the E8 — WIN.

I am glad someone supports me in my desire to see Hartwick Win. Thank you, my brother rjcarter8, for your support and alliance.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 30, 2007, 01:20:56 PM
oh brother.
now ive heard everything!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 30, 2007, 01:29:03 PM
Hartwick will win three conference games this year. They'll beat Naz and Elmira on their home floor. They will not sweep RIT.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 30, 2007, 02:01:46 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 30, 2007, 12:41:32 PM
Quote from: rjcarter8 on January 30, 2007, 12:07:26 PM


Here's a message to postup — No matter what you post on here ever again, your past dialogue means you will never — unlike Hartwick, which will turn things around the second time through the E8 — WIN.

I am glad someone supports me in my desire to see Hartwick Win. Thank you, my brother rjcarter8, for your support and alliance.

I really have no idea what to make of this? WIN. I didn't say I was rooting for Hartwick, not that I am against the Hawks, I simply felt the team would rebound over the second half of its league schedule.

Certainly not to the extent you think it's possible, but they will WIN more than one during their second swing through the league.

What I was saying in my post was that you won't and can't WIN any support after your inane comments.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 30, 2007, 02:05:50 PM
Quote from: postup101 on January 30, 2007, 10:59:05 AM
What is Hartwick College?

Hartwick College is one of the United States oldest and most prestigious liberal arts colleges. Hartwick is strategically located in Central New York in a town called Oneonta. Not only is Hartwick known for its strong academics, it is also know for its strong athletic tradition.

Other than the wild overstatements about Hartwick being good at either sports or academics, my favorite part is the "strategically located" bit.  Makes it sound like they built a fort in the mid-18th Century to repel marauding Indians, or possibly the French.  Also, it's probably not good strategy to locate yourself in the middle of absolutely nowhere.  You did get one thing right, though, Hartwick can be found in Oneonta (but it's a city, not a town).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 30, 2007, 02:52:44 PM
I enjoyed the most prestigious part!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 30, 2007, 02:59:53 PM
It is a very cold February Sunday night in Central New York and Mike Fitzgerald is just settling down to work on book report for the book that he read over the weekend, called Michael Jordan Goes Fishing. Mike is just out to apply himself and conquer the book report, when a loud noise came from his Dad's office. The loud noise is replaced with a computer voice stating that the entire Central New York was under a Blizzard Warning and could expect 20 inches of snow starting in the wee hours of the morning. Mike decides to stop working on his report, even though it is due the next morning. Instead, Mike decides to play with his newest Christmas present, the Wii. Mike is so sure he won't have the school the next morning that he neglects to finish his book report.

Mike's alarm goes off promptly at 7am and he is very excited about looking outside and seeing a ranging Blizzard in action. Much to Mike's horror when he opens up the curtains in his room he is blinded by the sun. Mike is very confused and turns on the TV to see if the start of the blizzard has been pushed back.  When he turned on the Weather Channel, his local forecast was on and said that Central New York was being spared the heavy snow and that it would be sunny all day.

While eating his breakfast all Mike was thinking was, what happened to the snow, how was he going to explain his tardiness of his book report. Mike had a 20 minute public school bus ride to further think of his strategy. When Mike walked into his homeroom he was greeted by a substitute teacher, who was collecting the book reports at the door. When asked where his book report was Mike responded "Sorry Ms. Woods I was too cocky last night and didn't expect to be busted this morning with no snow and a regular school day. Mike was then taken off the roster for the band trip to Salem, Virginia. To do this day Mike doesn't trust weather forecasters.

The moral of this story is cockiness only enhances the chances for busts. One  modern day example is predicting an undefeated season, a guaranteed victory, and other  similar events.



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on January 30, 2007, 03:01:24 PM
QuoteAt what point do you stop disparaging or shrugging off a person's accomplishments for the lack of support surrounding him? Dude averaged 37.5 pts/game this weekend on the road against two solid teams (Naz, RIT). He singlehandedly keeps them in a lot of games. As I said, I can see how the award could be given to Bryant/Herring, but to deem Cocozziello unworthy simply because he plays on a bad team isn't right. I understand that if some of you Fisher guys had your druthers, no players who didn't finish on an elite team (Read Fisher, Utica) would make any of these teams, but you have to accept a person's accomplishments for what they are.

Yeah your right GB 15, a player on a team that has one win and who's average loss against an E8 opponent in the opening round is 14 should def be considered POY...I mean he really keeps them in those games, almost to within single digit losses...Look Coco is a good player and he had a tremendous weekend.  I do not think that in all my years around the E8  I have witnessed someone avging 37.5 ppg in a weekend but still hes far from being considered POY...and if we are going on points why hasn't Canori's name been mentioned in POY...hes putting up the same amount of points and his team is doing terrible 2 so by your logic it should be coco and canori in the running...heck lets even throw in whoever the leading scorer from elmira's team in the mix so it can be a three way battle
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 30, 2007, 03:09:59 PM
what the....
postup- you been drinking?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 30, 2007, 03:36:59 PM
wow the words your on crack don't seem to hit the spot here....but the Wii is a very good gift....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 30, 2007, 03:46:22 PM
huh?
Super - help me out on this one.
I think post up has lost it
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 30, 2007, 04:02:29 PM
Tonight, ushers in the start of the 2nd half of the Empire 8 Basketball for many teams. This is the part of the season teams have been training for since the fall. There are 56 regular season games left for the Empire 8 teams. Some of the games will feature upsets, heartbreaks, sell out crowds, technicals, ejections, lead changes, and much more action.

All teams have seen each other at least once this season and scouted them as well.

Injuries have occurred

Suspensions have been handed out

Tears have been shed

However, Now all bets are off.

Anything can happen, as momentum is attained.

After all this is Empire 8 Basketball, a conference for basketball powerhouses.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 30, 2007, 04:42:05 PM
wow....the crack house must love you
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DirkDiggler on January 30, 2007, 05:50:38 PM
I really think I'm dumber now for reading all of PostUp's crap.  PostUp just because you were picked last throughout elementarty school doesn't make it okay for you to attempt to sound intelligent.  Go back to playing Dungeons and Dragons.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 30, 2007, 06:25:50 PM
Quote from: dmcclintock on January 30, 2007, 03:01:24 PM
QuoteAt what point do you stop disparaging or shrugging off a person's accomplishments for the lack of support surrounding him? Dude averaged 37.5 pts/game this weekend on the road against two solid teams (Naz, RIT). He singlehandedly keeps them in a lot of games. As I said, I can see how the award could be given to Bryant/Herring, but to deem Cocozziello unworthy simply because he plays on a bad team isn't right. I understand that if some of you Fisher guys had your druthers, no players who didn't finish on an elite team (Read Fisher, Utica) would make any of these teams, but you have to accept a person's accomplishments for what they are.

Yeah your right GB 15, a player on a team that has one win and who's average loss against an E8 opponent in the opening round is 14 should def be considered POY...I mean he really keeps them in those games, almost to within single digit losses...Look Coco is a good player and he had a tremendous weekend.  I do not think that in all my years around the E8  I have witnessed someone avging 37.5 ppg in a weekend but still hes far from being considered POY...and if we are going on points why hasn't Canori's name been mentioned in POY...hes putting up the same amount of points and his team is doing terrible 2 so by your logic it should be coco and canori in the running...heck lets even throw in whoever the leading scorer from elmira's team in the mix so it can be a three way battle

Your posts are ridiculous. Again, you do exactly what I've said you've been doing the entire time, you use Hartwick's TEAM success, or lack thereof, to discount Cocozziello's accomplishments. Thank you for proving my point. I agree with you that losing games by an average of 14 points per isn't great, but can you imagine how much they'd probably lose by if you replaced him with an average player? 25? 35?

While your attempt at belittling my logic is quite admirable, it is unfortunate that most of your Fisher-related, myopic posts lack foundation and rationale. Your Canori analogy is quite erroneous and here's why. Canori has a supporting cast; in fact, he has two players (Tyler Smith, Corey McAdam) who are far better than anything Cocozziello has. Let me explain something to you, when a team has multiple scorers, it's hard to hone in on just one; whereas when a team has one threat, you can throw two players at him and not worry about the consequences (as every team has done so far with Hartwick).

Saying he was a front-runner for POY was based on his play so far, of late, and a projection as to how he will do in the second half of the season. Frankly, I think I backed my position up quite nicely. You CANNOT continue to make TEAM arguments about INDIVIDUAL awards, which is exactly what you're doing. I understand that, as a Fisher fan, you want the awards to go primarily to the players on the best teams because, as a Fisher fan, you believe that would entail most of the players on your team. However, that is not the way those awards work. By the way, it was cute how you tried to change my words around and say only good players on bad teams should be considered when you said I should throw Elmira's leading scorer in there, too. If you took a second to look over my post, instead of throwing a tantrum when I didn't list one of your Fisher guys as a POY contender, you would have seen nobody from Elmira got any recognition.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 30, 2007, 06:47:44 PM
GB15 you can't possibly tell me that if you have coco with ubsurd stats and only 2 or 3 league wins and Bryant or Herring or anyone on a winning team with good decent stats that you give it to Coco....remember this year in the AL the best player in the league was a guy by the name of Pronk or Travis Hafner who had incredbile numbers but because he was on a really bad clevland team he had no shot at being MVP...and basketball is more of a team sport than baseball...in basketball often times one player can trully make a difference...so obviously coco's stats are part of his teams lack of success
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 30, 2007, 06:47:53 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 30, 2007, 09:40:50 AM
Quote from: dmcclintock on January 30, 2007, 09:08:01 AM
I think that both lists are farely accurate, nothing is set in stone as of you except that Ray will make the first team and I definantly think herring should make it on there...mueller and mcsweeney will vie for first or second team and it will be interesting to see if canori or lil mcadam makes the 1st...I will say that with the numbers that Jan should probably make first if they get more wins but to consider him player of the year with his team having 1 conference win is a little farfetched...IF/probably when Utica wins the league, either Herring or Bryant should get it not someone from a bottom feeding team...However that could all change if hartwick goes undefeated the second time around (not likely)

At what point do you stop disparaging or shrugging off a person's accomplishments for the lack of support surrounding him? Dude averaged 37.5 pts/game this weekend on the road against two solid teams (Naz, RIT). He singlehandedly keeps them in a lot of games. As I said, I can see how the award could be given to Bryant/Herring, but to deem Cocozziello unworthy simply because he plays on a bad team isn't right. I understand that if some of you Fisher guys had your druthers, no players who didn't finish on an elite team (Read Fisher, Utica) would make any of these teams, but you have to accept a person's accomplishments for what they are.

I completely agree...it is Player of the year, not MVP. The MVP would probably have to be the guy on the team you would think. But a player of the year should be the guy who outperforms/outproduces everybody else. I agree wins are important, but this is an individual award.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 30, 2007, 07:00:53 PM
I was wondering what peoples thoughts were about the E8 having two teams in the tourny this year? Seemed a little far fetched last night when I thought about it, however, lets assume that Fisher and UC each lose one more game to each other (be it regular season or e8 finals) that would leave both teams with very good records.

If Fisher loses to UC in a few weeks and then beats them in the tourny...Fisher would have the AQ, but how can you leave UC out with a record like 25-3 or 4. that would seem tough to do to me.

And if Fisher wins out in the regular season and losses in the conference finals, they would still have a record of like 23-5. That record, a good in region record, with a history of winning the past few years?

I find it hard to believe that the league has two tourny teams this year, but the records will be what they will be. It seems to me that Utica has done enough at this point in the season that if they finish strong and lose the AQ they could still get in. Has Fisher? A little food for thought.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 30, 2007, 07:54:47 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 30, 2007, 06:47:44 PM
GB15 you can't possibly tell me that if you have coco with ubsurd stats and only 2 or 3 league wins and Bryant or Herring or anyone on a winning team with good decent stats that you give it to Coco....remember this year in the AL the best player in the league was a guy by the name of Pronk or Travis Hafner who had incredbile numbers but because he was on a really bad clevland team he had no shot at being MVP...and basketball is more of a team sport than baseball...in basketball often times one player can trully make a difference...so obviously coco's stats are part of his teams lack of success

Travis Hafner doesn't play the field. Same reason that Ortiz won't win it. He's purely a hitter. He's not the best "player" in the AL and I have two friends that are Cleveland fans that would probably agree.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 30, 2007, 08:22:46 PM
player of the year is a player who makes his team better...is coco really making hartwick better and if he is than boy hartwick sucks even more than I thought... and this is tough I'm arguing for someone from UTICA of all places to win POY and yes POY and MVP are the same thing with different names in my opinion the poy should also be the MVP and likewise 

right now with the stats half way thru

coco averages 23.9 points per game and isn't in the top ten for any other major stat

Hering averages 4.14 assits

coco shoots 45% and herring shoots 51%


so right now just thru stats it's herring

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 30, 2007, 08:39:53 PM
SJFCards,

I agree, I think we will get two teams in the tourny again this year.  if Fisher and Ithaca have each lose another game they will both def get in, I think they can both even afford to lose 2 more games.  So unless Fisher drops another odd one or two then they should be in, same with Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 30, 2007, 09:15:17 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 30, 2007, 08:39:53 PM
SJFCards,

I agree, I think we will get two teams in the tourny again this year.  if Fisher and Ithaca have each lose another game they will both def get in, I think they can both even afford to lose 2 more games.  So unless Fisher drops another odd one or two then they should be in, same with Utica.

You meant Utica, right?  Ithica Utaca Uthaca Itica Itchica Uthica ...I can see how they can very easily be mixed up. 

Oh heck, AUPepBand can't get enough "editing" for a week that he has to go on the D3 boards and edit there, too. +k anyway!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 30, 2007, 09:17:19 PM
yes, sorry about that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 30, 2007, 09:29:42 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 30, 2007, 09:15:17 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 30, 2007, 08:39:53 PM
SJFCards,

I agree, I think we will get two teams in the tourny again this year.  if Fisher and Ithaca have each lose another game they will both def get in, I think they can both even afford to lose 2 more games.  So unless Fisher drops another odd one or two then they should be in, same with Utica.

You meant Utica, right?  Ithica Utaca Uthaca Itica Itchica Uthica ...I can see how they can very easily be mixed up. 

Oh heck, AUPepBand can't get enough "editing" for a week that he has to go on the D3 boards and edit there, too. +k anyway!

Pep...bravo...you have been on top of your game here the past few days...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 30, 2007, 10:02:57 PM
you guys have too much time on your hands to be worrying about spelling or miswordings in posts.  1) who really cares enought to correct it, 2) who feels like posting just to correct it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 30, 2007, 10:16:17 PM
anyone have any info on utica hartwick
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reelentless on January 30, 2007, 10:20:51 PM
Utica by 12ish  Bryant high with 24, Herring 21.  Coco had 6, none in the second half.  Tight until Utica went on a run at the end of the first half.  Up by 18 midway through the 2nd half. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 30, 2007, 10:40:57 PM
Just got back from Utica@Hartwick basketball game. The game was by far a blow up, like some people had wished. First half Hartwick played very well and stunning Utica. Second half was all Utica. Experience and talent went farther than inexperience and talent tonight. I am preaching to the Choir, but Ray Bryant is a real stud.

If hartwick finishes the season playing like they played in the first half tonight they will find themselves winning games the second half of the season.

I am officially on the Utica bandwagon for the E8 Title.

What is up with Ithaca falling to Oneonta State 68-62. Just a reminder that Hartwick BEAT Oneonta State.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 30, 2007, 10:47:07 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 30, 2007, 10:02:57 PM
you guys have too much time on your hands to be worrying about spelling or miswordings in posts.  1) who really cares enought to correct it, 2) who feels like posting just to correct it.

Gosh, just Pep poking ... heck, Pep gave you +K Dynasty and this is the thanks he gets?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 30, 2007, 11:42:57 PM
haha relax.  thanks pep.

Go bombers who do you think should get player of the year coco with his whopping numbers versus utica and fisher the two good teams in the conference or ray or herrig who consitently put up good numbers on a good team. one more note then this should get put to rest for a while, you keep stressing how coco has no one around him, however, if he is player of the year he needs to make players around him better, ex. jack lighthall, although is solid, he is no where near as good as the numbers he is putting up, you want to know why? 2 guesses ray bryant and doug herrig.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 12:46:01 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 30, 2007, 11:42:57 PM
haha relax.  thanks pep.

Go bombers who do you think should get player of the year coco with his whopping numbers versus utica and fisher the two good teams in the conference or ray or herrig who consitently put up good numbers on a good team. one more note then this should get put to rest for a while, you keep stressing how coco has no one around him, however, if he is player of the year he needs to make players around him better, ex. jack lighthall, although is solid, he is no where near as good as the numbers he is putting up, you want to know why? 2 guesses ray bryant and doug herrig.

First of all, it takes a man to talk junk about 1 out of 14 games in the conference season. Also, I made it very obvious from my post that the POY could go to any of those three players. I guess you have to nitpick on me since I'm right most of the time, huh Dynasty? So what did his average over the last three games plummet to? 27ppg? Damn, rough stretch. You're a real man, FisherDynasty. Youve just assured yourself I'm going to be in your ear after every good game he plays from here on out. Have any Fisher guys even scored 27 in a game yet this year? (Stock Fisher fan answer: Noooo, because they're so incredibly balanced!) Let me guess, 18 of Fisher's 33 players could put up the type of numbers that Cocozziello puts up at Hartwick, right?

Quote from: postup101 on January 30, 2007, 10:40:57 PM

What is up with Ithaca falling to Oneonta State 68-62. Just a reminder that Hartwick BEAT Oneonta State.

Just a reminder...Ithaca took Hartwick behind the woodshed. Any questions, MadHawk?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on January 31, 2007, 06:42:11 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 12:46:01 AM

Just a reminder...Ithaca took Hartwick behind the woodshed. Any questions, MadHawk?

Yes, Hartwick lost to Ithaca by 17. However, it is debateable whether or not it was woodshed treatment. Hartwick lost to Utica the first time around by 18 and then gave then a run last night. Let me remind you that Ithaca lost to Utica by 22 and it was in the Bulb. Ithaca is good, but is no Utica by any stretch. Hartwick will be no pushover for Ithaca on Saturday. Should be a great game. Make sure to bring your popcorn and diet coke everyone!

After watching Andy Goodemote last night, I think he is the best coach in the league. Followed of course by Mr.Kornaker. More on this later
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 31, 2007, 08:59:18 AM
Here is what happened last night at the Utica game.  I have to admit that for 16 minutes Hartwick actually looked like a good team.  They were winning by 5 I think when Cocozziello picked up his second foul.  No exageration, I don't think they scored another point without him and infact I am not sure they even got more than a few shots off.
The game completely changed and we went into the lockerroom up 6 instead of trailing.  It was somewhat of a relief (I can't believe I am saying that).
Now how in the hell Hartwick has only 1 league win is a little mystifying except that when I really watched them last night it is exactly what Bomber had stated a few days ago.... they have one guy that is that much better than everyone else.
We had 3 guys on him last night and the fact is nobody else on Hartwick can score.
This argument about the other good players in this league is a joke.  If he had Ray Bryant as a teammate or he had Bostic etc that team would destroy this league.  I really believe that.
I have only seen him play twice this season but he is being asked to play point guard because they don't have anyone to play there.  It is alot to ask, run the team and pretty much have to score because nobody else can score.
The Canori comparison is really an insult.  If you switched the two of them, Hartwick wouldn't have more than 5 wins on the season and Naz would be a title contender because the supporting cast at Naz is THAT much better.
Anyway, it was good win for us.  Doug and Ray were the only guys in double figures and it brings us 1 win closer to being perfect in the league.

Postup - nice game, your team played pretty well.  But you have to admit that your 40% was/is a little off.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 09:01:21 AM
go bombers, you totally missed the point I said look what he has done against FISHER and UTICA, the two teams that most people have a tough time scoring on because they actually play defense.  you obviously also missed the point about him making his teamates better.  I hope you got to sleep alright.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 09:03:29 AM
On another note worth posting about..

Any predictions for this weekend?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DR. BELLY HOOPS on January 31, 2007, 09:33:38 AM
Another solid win for Utica last night. They have now won ten in a row and are steamrolling their way through the E8. When Bryant and Herring both go for over twenty you can pretty much strike up the band for the victory song. With a sweep this weekend the mighty Pioneers should crack the top 25. The rest of the E8 should have a round -robin tournament to see who will make the ECAC's this year. -THE DOCTOR
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 31, 2007, 10:07:19 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on January 30, 2007, 07:00:53 PM
I was wondering what peoples thoughts were about the E8 having two teams in the tourny this year? Seemed a little far fetched last night when I thought about it, however, lets assume that Fisher and UC each lose one more game to each other (be it regular season or e8 finals) that would leave both teams with very good records.

If Fisher loses to UC in a few weeks and then beats them in the tourny...Fisher would have the AQ, but how can you leave UC out with a record like 25-3 or 4. that would seem tough to do to me.

And if Fisher wins out in the regular season and losses in the conference finals, they would still have a record of like 23-5. That record, a good in region record, with a history of winning the past few years?

I find it hard to believe that the league has two tourny teams this year, but the records will be what they will be. It seems to me that Utica has done enough at this point in the season that if they finish strong and lose the AQ they could still get in. Has Fisher? A little food for thought.


If the tournament unfolds according to how the standings are, Utica gets the automatic bid.  You're right in that Fisher will have a gaudy record, especially in region.  However, the folks in charge will always tell you that previous seasons have absolutely no impact on a team's selection for the current season's tournament.  Fisher would be evaluated according to the relevant data against other teams competing for that Pool C spot.

Recent losses by UR (13-5) and NYU (14-4) certainly help the Pool C chances of other teams in the East. 

Brockport (14-4) and Plattsburgh (12-6) are both on a roll right now.  The SUNYAC is pretty messy, but they might be pulling ahead of the pack.  Geneseo is fading.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 10:11:52 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 09:01:21 AM
go bombers, you totally missed the point I said look what he has done against FISHER and UTICA, the two teams that most people have a tough time scoring on because they actually play defense.  you obviously also missed the point about him making his teamates better.  I hope you got to sleep alright.

See Clear's post about how they had three guys guarding him. Kinda hard to score with all those guys on you, especially when your teammates aren't hitting shots. You can get the ball to your teammates but if they're misfiring there's not a lot he can do. You're right, Fisher/Utica play defense on him...with several guys. It just so happens that those couple defenders are usually better than Naz or RIT's two defenders that guard him.

Quote from: DR. BELLY HOOPS on January 31, 2007, 09:33:38 AM
Another solid win for Utica last night. They have now won ten in a row and are steamrolling their way through the E8. When Bryant and Herring both go for over twenty you can pretty much strike up the band for the victory song. With a sweep this weekend the mighty Pioneers should crack the top 25. The rest of the E8 should have a round -robin tournament to see who will make the ECAC's this year. -THE DOCTOR

Are you Utica version of MadHawk? I understand you're trying to stir the pot here with the Fisher majority by making a comment about how the other teams should have a round-robin for the ECAC's, but try to be somewhat realistic so that people don't immediately shrug off what you say (like we do to Madha...Postup). Steamrolling, huh? Not sure if I'd describe the Naz or Fisher victories that way.

Whatever drug it is that some of you posters are on that makes you so delusional, can you tell me what it is? I'm tired of reality and I need you goes to help me out. Doctor? Madhawk? Any help?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 10:16:08 AM
Bamm id dont think 21-6 or 22-5 is that guady, Fisher will finish with one of those 2 records.  Win or lose the E8 tournament count them in.  No more then 1 sunyac team will finish with that record, same with the liberty.  dont worry about uofR, the UAA is to tough a conference to keep a good record, if they dont finish in the top 3 (unlikely) they are not in, same with NYU who has been losing as of late.

Go bombers, I read it, and although clear at times can be as erroneous as madhawk, ill take his word for it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 31, 2007, 10:23:52 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 10:16:08 AM
Bamm id dont think 21-6 or 22-5 is that guady, Fisher will finish with one of those 2 records.  Win or lose the E8 tournament count them in.  No more then 1 sunyac team will finish with that record, same with the liberty. 

Gaudy (adjective):  brilliantly or excessively showy.

Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 10:16:08 AM
Dont worry about uofR, the UAA is to tough a conference to keep a good record, if they dont finish in the top 3 (unlikely) they are not in, same with NYU who has been losing as of late.

Don't worry about UofR?  You Fisher fans really have selective memories.  You are quick to brag about old Fisher players and teams, but you forget that the Jackets CRUSHED the Cardinals by 29 this year.  On top of that, Rochester has a knack for pulling out huge wins at the end of the season in that conference.  If Rochester doesn't win their league, and they have a resume that comes close to Fisher, they should get in and Fisher should be in the ECAC's.  They are a better team, in a better conference, and they proved it by smacking Fisher around three weeks ago.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 31, 2007, 10:28:25 AM
Thanks for the support .
Go Fisher, didn't Jan score like 25 in 1 half against you guys last year?  And I saw him dismantle us at Utica earlier this season.  I can remember when Jordan was tearing up the NBA in the mid to late 80's and he was considered a great talent but not the best.  The running joke amongst NBA insiders was that it wasn't even close.  He was so much better than anyone else.  The problem was he had no supporting cast.
His 63 against Boston in the playoffs was amazing, did that make his teammates better?
My point is just that.  When Jordan had Ennis Whately, Brad Sellers, and Sam Vincent he didn't win.  But he was still the best.
Hey I say what I saw last night.  There was 2 to 3 guys always aware of where he was.  His teammates didn't help him.  
My definition of making teammates better would be this:  does the person create scoring opportunities for others.  This kid sucks in 2 or 3 players every time he drives it and when he does hit the open man (usually mutiple guys to choose from) they can't score.
Put him on any other team with the exception of Elmira and that team would be the favorite to win the league in my opinion.

And this is coming from a guy who has 2 studs on his favorite team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2007, 10:43:19 AM
lets also remember that fisher owns a split with uofr....Dr.  Utica is having a good season while the rest of the e8 is in a down year...I mean Fisher is in a rebuilding year and you need double ot to beat them at your house... Trust me if you play like that at fisher there won't even be ot fisher will win...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 10:46:05 AM
He aslo had 4 in the second game against Fisher.  Anyways, Bamm, Im not saying Fisher is better than UofR, im just sayin i would put lots of money on UofR is not having the same record as fisher bc of their tough conference.  That being said no team with 8 losses (maybe 7 but still would be unlikely) will get an automatic bid.  UofR is still a year away therefore will not win there conference this year.  That being said, I think 1 sunyac team will get in, and 1 liberty league team.  Fisher is very young there only going to get better, I think they will knock off utica at home but slip to rit or naz second time around, then maybe lose in the e8 tourny but still will get in.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 11:22:20 AM
UR will finish with a solid record in the UAA. Two of the three conference games they lost were on the trip to the Midwest (Chicago, Wash U) who are 7-0 and 6-1, respectively, in the conference. That trip has historically been their nemesis and they still end up doing well. Their other loss was to NYU in OT. They will be fine.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 11:58:07 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 31, 2007, 10:43:19 AM
lets also remember that fisher owns a split with uofr....Dr.  Utica is having a good season while the rest of the e8 is in a down year...I mean Fisher is in a rebuilding year and you need double ot to beat them at your house... Trust me if you play like that at fisher there won't even be ot fisher will win...

I just don't buy into this way of thinking.

Play like what? The D that only allowed fisher to score something like 8 points over the last 14 minutes? Change of venue will not suddenly make Utica forget that they are the better team.

When fisher was the most dominant team and Utica was mediocre, Utica beat them once, then the next year lost by 3 at fisher in the championship game. Fisher actually did BETTER on the road against Utica that year.

Another thing to remember, is that this is not the same fisher team you are used to seeing. They are very talented, but the attitude that came with guys like O'Brien has not even been close to being matched this year. The only one that held his head up and looked like a real man after the loss was the freshman, I think his name is Newman. He is going to be a leader on that team in the future.

Utica did lose some great scoring from last years team. But they may be a better overall team this year. The reason why Utica matched up so poorly against fisher last year was the height difference. Utica was a 4 guard team to start, and when Lighthall got hurt they were a 5 gaurd team. The match up against fisher was terrible. Utica went out and got 4 Freshmen at 6'5 or taller, and Lighthall is playing the best he has played in his career.

Point is, fisher is a very good team, but Utica is better. Assuming that it was just a down game for fisher at Utica and that Utica barely won and played their best and that fisher playing at home will make a huge difference is a lot of assumptions to base your hope on.

Of the three, the one that holds the most water is the home court thing. Let me tell you, after punking WPI on their home court last season when Utica was supposed to lose by 20 in front of an absolutely massive crowd in the tournament, and being so close at fisher in the past when the rosters talent levels were reversed, it isn't as big as an advantage as it was in the past.

Anyone can beat anybody on any given day. But to assume it will happen just because of the history of the programs is silly. Utica had never won at rit under Coach Goodemote. It happened this year. Utica had never gone the first time around the league without a league blemish. It happened this year. Utica had never made the tournament going into last year.... things happen, programs change, they have runs, and norms don't always hold true.

Utica is the team to beat this year, and until it happens, there is no reason to doubt them. Just a few games into the season they had become as cohesive of a unit as last years team was at the height of the season. They are unselfish, play great team ball, shut down the best player on the other team more often than not, play tough defense, find ways to win and get up and down the court faster than anyone they have played. Their confidence and attitude is at an all time high, and they are gracious and humble nearly all of the time. I have been around Utica Basketball and the empire 8 since 1999, and I can honestly say this is one of the best teams the conference has seen since that time.

That being said, I think there is more talent in the conference than it is being given credit for. There are some very good young players scattered about the conference, and in the next few years there are going to be some tough battles in the league. Fisher and Utica will be at the top for a long time. Their coaches play a huge role in how successful they will be. Good to see that the league has a bright future.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 12:08:46 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 10:11:52 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 09:01:21 AM
go bombers, you totally missed the point I said look what he has done against FISHER and UTICA, the two teams that most people have a tough time scoring on because they actually play defense.  you obviously also missed the point about him making his teamates better.  I hope you got to sleep alright.

See Clear's post about how they had three guys guarding him. Kinda hard to score with all those guys on you, especially when your teammates aren't hitting shots. You can get the ball to your teammates but if they're misfiring there's not a lot he can do. You're right, Fisher/Utica play defense on him...with several guys. It just so happens that those couple defenders are usually better than Naz or RIT's two defenders that guard him.

Quote from: DR. BELLY HOOPS on January 31, 2007, 09:33:38 AM
Another solid win for Utica last night. They have now won ten in a row and are steamrolling their way through the E8. When Bryant and Herring both go for over twenty you can pretty much strike up the band for the victory song. With a sweep this weekend the mighty Pioneers should crack the top 25. The rest of the E8 should have a round -robin tournament to see who will make the ECAC's this year. -THE DOCTOR

Are you Utica version of MadHawk? I understand you're trying to stir the pot here with the Fisher majority by making a comment about how the other teams should have a round-robin for the ECAC's, but try to be somewhat realistic so that people don't immediately shrug off what you say (like we do to Madha...Postup). Steamrolling, huh? Not sure if I'd describe the Naz or Fisher victories that way.

Whatever drug it is that some of you posters are on that makes you so delusional, can you tell me what it is? I'm tired of reality and I need you goes to help me out. Doctor? Madhawk? Any help?

If I was an ithaca fan I would be sick of reality as well.  ;)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2007, 12:18:03 PM
I think I said that it is a young league...and this year is just a down year because teams are very young... and have you ever been in varsity gym...when the students are there in force it is a diffrent enviorment than any gym in the league...  Fisher this year has been better at home look at the UofR game for instance..

The league has some great young players...but they are young...


P.S. Utica still hasn't won at Fisher and it is still the toughest place to play in the E8
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 12:19:37 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 31, 2007, 12:18:03 PM
I think I said that it is a young league...and this year is just a down year because teams are very young... and have you ever been in varsity gym...when the students are there in force it is a diffrent enviorment than any gym in the league...  Fisher this year has been better at home look at the UofR game for instance..

The league has some great young players...but they are young...


P.S. Utica still hasn't won at Fisher and it is still the toughest place to play in the E8

I've been there many times over. WPI was crazier than I have ever seen it there. So was Amherst.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 12:38:58 PM
UCGrad, I agree with many of your points and don't disagree since Utica went throught round 1 unbeaten, so they have earned the credit to be considered the team to beat in the conference.  That being said it is a very slight edge over Fisher as shown in the first game and their overall records.  I think fisher will take care of Utica at home (Fisher the favorite in this game). Then have to travel to Utica (which really sucks haha but hey change is good) then the championship will be a very close one with Utica being the favorite.  Repeating an earlier note, both teams will get in the tourny unless there are some upsets in round 2 which I do not forsee.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 12:40:46 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 12:38:58 PM
UCGrad, I agree with many of your points and don't disagree since Utica went throught round 1 unbeaten, so they have earned the credit to be considered the team to beat in the conference.  That being said it is a very slight edge over Fisher as shown in the first game and their overall records.  I think fisher will take care of Utica at home (Fisher the favorite in this game). Then have to travel to Utica (which really sucks haha but hey change is good) then the championship will be a very close one with Utica being the favorite.  Repeating an earlier note, both teams will get in the tourny unless there are some upsets in round 2 which I do not forsee.


I agree that both teams will likely get in.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2007, 01:08:54 PM
UC I never said the WPI or amherst were less crazy...I said that fisher is the toughest place to play in the E8 and I don't think that we can argue that...

The fact is I've stated that because of the Amherst student section that all games from sweet 16 and beyond should be held on neutral sites
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 01:15:23 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 12:08:46 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 10:11:52 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 09:01:21 AM
go bombers, you totally missed the point I said look what he has done against FISHER and UTICA, the two teams that most people have a tough time scoring on because they actually play defense.  you obviously also missed the point about him making his teamates better.  I hope you got to sleep alright.

See Clear's post about how they had three guys guarding him. Kinda hard to score with all those guys on you, especially when your teammates aren't hitting shots. You can get the ball to your teammates but if they're misfiring there's not a lot he can do. You're right, Fisher/Utica play defense on him...with several guys. It just so happens that those couple defenders are usually better than Naz or RIT's two defenders that guard him.

Quote from: DR. BELLY HOOPS on January 31, 2007, 09:33:38 AM
Another solid win for Utica last night. They have now won ten in a row and are steamrolling their way through the E8. When Bryant and Herring both go for over twenty you can pretty much strike up the band for the victory song. With a sweep this weekend the mighty Pioneers should crack the top 25. The rest of the E8 should have a round -robin tournament to see who will make the ECAC's this year. -THE DOCTOR

Are you Utica version of MadHawk? I understand you're trying to stir the pot here with the Fisher majority by making a comment about how the other teams should have a round-robin for the ECAC's, but try to be somewhat realistic so that people don't immediately shrug off what you say (like we do to Madha...Postup). Steamrolling, huh? Not sure if I'd describe the Naz or Fisher victories that way.

Whatever drug it is that some of you posters are on that makes you so delusional, can you tell me what it is? I'm tired of reality and I need you goes to help me out. Doctor? Madhawk? Any help?

If I was an ithaca fan I would be sick of reality as well.  ;)

Seriously. I hate being an alum of the most consistently successful athletic department in the conference. That sucks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 01:27:49 PM
Honestly, and I hate to be the one to say it, had Utica not lucked into two guys in their mid-20's (Troy, Bryant), Utica would be in the same boat of the RIT's and Ithaca's of the conference; scraping out 8-6 conference seasons and hoping to get lucky in the E8 tournament. I really don't think this very arguable. You take those two guys away, Utica has AT LEAST two or three less conference wins over the last few seasons.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on January 31, 2007, 01:32:07 PM
Watching a Fisher home game is certainly one of the wildest venues in the conference.
Those seats on the floor are just toooooooooooo close!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 31, 2007, 01:36:42 PM
GB15, thanks for post #1060.  If you didn't say it I would have.  This why the era of Mullinocrity is so irritating to me, said it before and I'll say it again.  IC should own men's hoops in the E8 like they own everything else.  (SJF fans, I know, I know, but do it a couple more times and then you'll have achieved "program" status).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2007, 01:41:50 PM
honestly caz I think basketball is the one sport at fisher that has acheived the "program" status... I mean look at some of the coaches the mens program has had (Bobby Wanzer) and the womens program is the all time winningest program in DIII and the mens team has had a tremndous amount of success the past 4 or 5 years
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 02:40:00 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 01:27:49 PM
Honestly, and I hate to be the one to say it, had Utica not lucked into two guys in their mid-20's (Troy, Bryant), Utica would be in the same boat of the RIT's and Ithaca's of the conference; scraping out 8-6 conference seasons and hoping to get lucky in the E8 tournament. I really don't think this very arguable. You take those two guys away, Utica has AT LEAST two or three less conference wins over the last few seasons.

Luck, recruiting.... whatever you want to call it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 02:41:14 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 01:15:23 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 12:08:46 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 10:11:52 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 09:01:21 AM
go bombers, you totally missed the point I said look what he has done against FISHER and UTICA, the two teams that most people have a tough time scoring on because they actually play defense.  you obviously also missed the point about him making his teamates better.  I hope you got to sleep alright.

See Clear's post about how they had three guys guarding him. Kinda hard to score with all those guys on you, especially when your teammates aren't hitting shots. You can get the ball to your teammates but if they're misfiring there's not a lot he can do. You're right, Fisher/Utica play defense on him...with several guys. It just so happens that those couple defenders are usually better than Naz or RIT's two defenders that guard him.

Quote from: DR. BELLY HOOPS on January 31, 2007, 09:33:38 AM
Another solid win for Utica last night. They have now won ten in a row and are steamrolling their way through the E8. When Bryant and Herring both go for over twenty you can pretty much strike up the band for the victory song. With a sweep this weekend the mighty Pioneers should crack the top 25. The rest of the E8 should have a round -robin tournament to see who will make the ECAC's this year. -THE DOCTOR

Are you Utica version of MadHawk? I understand you're trying to stir the pot here with the Fisher majority by making a comment about how the other teams should have a round-robin for the ECAC's, but try to be somewhat realistic so that people don't immediately shrug off what you say (like we do to Madha...Postup). Steamrolling, huh? Not sure if I'd describe the Naz or Fisher victories that way.

Whatever drug it is that some of you posters are on that makes you so delusional, can you tell me what it is? I'm tired of reality and I need you goes to help me out. Doctor? Madhawk? Any help?

If I was an ithaca fan I would be sick of reality as well.  ;)

Seriously. I hate being an alum of the most consistently successful athletic department in the conference. That sucks.


That is like being a Bulls fan now and saying that times are good.... just look at all their championships!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 02:45:22 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 31, 2007, 01:08:54 PM
UC I never said the WPI or amherst were less crazy...I said that fisher is the toughest place to play in the E8 and I don't think that we can argue that...

The fact is I've stated that because of the Amherst student section that all games from sweet 16 and beyond should be held on neutral sites

It is a tough place to play.... if you let it be. This Utica team seems to thrive off of people jeering them. A lot of why it is tough to play in fisher is how small the gym is. It was a lot harder to play there a few years back when they had the worst rims in the history of basketball. They were stiffer than bill clinton on viagara.

I was just saying, if they could handle WPI in that atmoshphere, and given the close games they had in fisher in the past, then the atmosphere there now isn't as big as deal it used to be. In the past, fisher had the more talented team in the atmosphere. It's not the same equation anymore.

Did you go to the sweet 16 last year? How sweet is the amherst gym? I was impressed with the building.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 02:47:07 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 31, 2007, 01:36:42 PM
GB15, thanks for post #1060.  If you didn't say it I would have.  This why the era of Mullinocrity is so irritating to me, said it before and I'll say it again.  IC should own men's hoops in the E8 like they own everything else.  (SJF fans, I know, I know, but do it a couple more times and then you'll have achieved "program" status).


I'll tell you what, the new assistant coach there, nevada, is a good coach. I know him from when I was coaching lacrosse at suny canton. He was a good pick up for them.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 31, 2007, 02:57:01 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 02:45:22 PM

They were stiffer than bill clinton on viagara.


That joke was just terrible enough to make me laugh out loud.  Nice work, maybe you should submit your writer's resume to Leno.

Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 02:45:22 PM

Did you go to the sweet 16 last year? How sweet is the amherst gym? I was impressed with the building.

I've been to the Amherst gym, and I don't remember being impressed.  My highschool gym (graduating class: 163) is more impressive, and probably seats more.  Several E8 teams have bigger, better gyms... they just don't have the attendance to make the environment fun.

Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 01:15:23 PM
Seriously. I hate being an alum of the most consistently successful athletic department in the conference. That sucks.

Because I've got 10 minutes to kill, I'll take a look at who's been dominating the men's athletics landscape in each sport since I've been following it (6 years or so).

Basketball:  Fisher
Football:  Ithaca and Fisher
Baseball:  Ithaca
Lacrosse:  Nazareth and RIT
Soccer:  Nazareth, RIT, and Alfred

The E8 doesn't exist as a hockey conference.  But as an alum, I'm not going to miss an opportunity to state that RIT's D1 team is winning their conference and on the verge of cracking the college hockey Top 20 in their 2nd season as a D1 program.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 03:02:52 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 31, 2007, 01:41:50 PM
honestly caz I think basketball is the one sport at fisher that has acheived the "program" status... I mean look at some of the coaches the mens program has had (Bobby Wanzer) and the womens program is the all time winningest program in DIII and the mens team has had a tremndous amount of success the past 4 or 5 years

But, since you joined IC's conference, Fisher has been second best over the last six or whatever years. Bamm, Ithaca has actually been the class of the E8 in men's soccer. Unfortunately, our team always loses on PK's in the E8 tourney, then gets snubbed for the NCAA's. If you want to consider PK's a true measure of soccer ability then, by all means, do so. I won't be doing that. Also, with the exception of this year, E8 Lacrosse comes down to  two teams: Naz and Ithaca; this isn't even debatable. I also said athletics department, so that includes the ladies, too. I'm just trying to give them equal time.

UCgrad, I think a more apt analogy would be that you're like a Long Beach State baseball fan talking trash to UCLA fans (whose teams are good across the board, in all seasons). Consistently, Ithaca has the best athletics in the conference. Why do you think everyone hates them so much? For god sakes, last year, in Fisher's student newspaper, there was a huge article about how the athletics emphasis HAS to be on beating Ithaca in most sports because they are the benchmark. So, go ahead, enjoy the one sport you're better than us at. By the way, I'm excited for next year when you guys are out of rent-a-players (Bryant, Troy). Let's see how good you guys are then.

By the way, I'm interested to know why you cited the E8 Championship game of 2004 where Fisher only won by a few, compared to the more recent (and likely more relevant because more of the current players were involved) 2006 E8 Final where Fisher mauled you guys? Just wondering. I think I know the answer, but indulge me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2007, 03:04:09 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 02:40:00 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 01:27:49 PM
Honestly, and I hate to be the one to say it, had Utica not lucked into two guys in their mid-20's (Troy, Bryant), Utica would be in the same boat of the RIT's and Ithaca's of the conference; scraping out 8-6 conference seasons and hoping to get lucky in the E8 tournament. I really don't think this very arguable. You take those two guys away, Utica has AT LEAST two or three less conference wins over the last few seasons.

Luck, recruiting.... whatever you want to call it.


ok first off

Luck-finding a couple twenty somthings who have not used up their elegabilty

Recruiting-finding a young 18 or 19 year old that you can mold into a type of player to fit your system (I.E. a SOB or a Mike McGee)


and UC are you kidding me with the Amherst Gym...it's nice but I wasn't impressed by it.... they had an oppurtunity to make a larger seating area and chose not to...

and now... 2005-2006 Utica at fisher scores
game 1 82-70
game 2 74-61

2004-2005 80-51

2003-2004 game 1 82-67
game 2  62-59  remember my friends this is after the "fight" so fisher is playing without the McGee brothers

2002-2003 79-70


so in the last 6 games at fisher utica has gotten within 10 twice and in total been out scored 459-378 for an average of 76.5-62 that does not seem like "close" games at fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 31, 2007, 02:57:01 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 02:45:22 PM

They were stiffer than bill clinton on viagara.


That joke was just terrible enough to make me laugh out loud.  Nice work, maybe you should submit your writer's resume to Leno.

Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 02:45:22 PM

Did you go to the sweet 16 last year? How sweet is the amherst gym? I was impressed with the building.

I've been to the Amherst gym, and I don't remember being impressed.  My highschool gym (graduating class: 163) is more impressive, and probably seats more.  Several E8 teams have bigger, better gyms... they just don't have the attendance to make the environment fun.

Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 01:15:23 PM
Seriously. I hate being an alum of the most consistently successful athletic department in the conference. That sucks.

Because I've got 10 minutes to kill, I'll take a look at who's been dominating the men's athletics landscape in each sport since I've been following it (6 years or so).

Basketball:  Fisher
Football:  Ithaca and Fisher
Baseball:  Ithaca
Lacrosse:  Nazareth and RIT
Soccer:  Nazareth, RIT, and Alfred

The E8 doesn't exist as a hockey conference.  But as an alum, I'm not going to miss an opportunity to state that RIT's D1 team is winning their conference and on the verge of cracking the college hockey Top 20 in their 2nd season as a D1 program.

Don't forget the Utica Hockey programs are tearing it up as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 03:06:44 PM
I repeat, Ithaca has the best Athletic Department in the conference. It's not really close. They are the benchmark.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 03:09:26 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 03:02:52 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 31, 2007, 01:41:50 PM
honestly caz I think basketball is the one sport at fisher that has acheived the "program" status... I mean look at some of the coaches the mens program has had (Bobby Wanzer) and the womens program is the all time winningest program in DIII and the mens team has had a tremndous amount of success the past 4 or 5 years

But, since you joined IC's conference, Fisher has been second best over the last six or whatever years. Bamm, Ithaca has actually been the class of the E8 in men's soccer. Unfortunately, our team always loses on PK's in the E8 tourney, then gets snubbed for the NCAA's. If you want to consider PK's a true measure of soccer ability then, by all means, do so. I won't be doing that. Also, with the exception of this year, E8 Lacrosse comes down to  two teams: Naz and Ithaca; this isn't even debatable. I also said athletics department, so that includes the ladies, too. I'm just trying to give them equal time.

UCgrad, I think a more apt analogy would be that you're like a Long Beach State baseball fan talking trash to UCLA fans (whose teams are good across the board, in all seasons). Consistently, Ithaca has the best athletics in the conference. Why do you think everyone hates them so much? For god sakes, last year, in Fisher's student newspaper, there was a huge article about how the athletics emphasis HAS to be on beating Ithaca in most sports because they are the benchmark. So, go ahead, enjoy the one sport you're better than us at. By the way, I'm excited for next year when you guys are out of rent-a-players (Bryant, Troy). Let's see how good you guys are then.

By the way, I'm interested to know why you cited the E8 Championship game of 2004 where Fisher only won by a few, compared to the more recent (and likely more relevant because more of the current players were involved) 2006 E8 Final where Fisher mauled you guys? Just wondering. I think I know the answer, but indulge me.


There is a reason why those two guys chose UC, and it wasn't luck. It was Coach Goodemote. Those two guys are also not the only reason why UC has done well lately, let's not cut the rest of the guys short. They win as a team, see coco as an example of one player not making a team. Hell, if it was luck, I would imagine we probably would have had it set up so that they were both playing at the same time.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 03:12:50 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 31, 2007, 03:04:09 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 02:40:00 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 01:27:49 PM
Honestly, and I hate to be the one to say it, had Utica not lucked into two guys in their mid-20's (Troy, Bryant), Utica would be in the same boat of the RIT's and Ithaca's of the conference; scraping out 8-6 conference seasons and hoping to get lucky in the E8 tournament. I really don't think this very arguable. You take those two guys away, Utica has AT LEAST two or three less conference wins over the last few seasons.

Luck, recruiting.... whatever you want to call it.


ok first off

Luck-finding a couple twenty somthings who have not used up their elegabilty

Recruiting-finding a young 18 or 19 year old that you can mold into a type of player to fit your system (I.E. a SOB or a Mike McGee)


and UC are you kidding me with the Amherst Gym...it's nice but I wasn't impressed by it.... they had an oppurtunity to make a larger seating area and chose not to...

and now... 2005-2006 Utica at fisher scores
game 1 82-70
game 2 74-61

2004-2005 80-51

2003-2004 game 1 82-67
game 2  62-59  remember my friends this is after the "fight" so fisher is playing without the McGee brothers

2002-2003 79-70


so in the last 6 games at fisher utica has gotten within 10 twice and in total been out scored 459-378 for an average of 76.5-62 that does not seem like "close" games at fisher


I guess I was thinking more along the lines of the whole building. The fieldhouse has a lot of nice features.

Someone had mentioned the conference championship from last year, the one where Utica went in without a center on the roster that wasn't injured.... Apples and oranges. Home court had very little to do with the match up problems. Ray running the 5 against a team with that much height is not the recipe for success.. no matter where you play, Home, road, or neutral.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 31, 2007, 03:14:21 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 03:02:52 PM
But, since you joined IC's conference, Fisher has been second best over the last six or whatever years. Bamm, Ithaca has actually been the class of the E8 in men's soccer. Unfortunately, our team always loses on PK's in the E8 tourney, then gets snubbed for the NCAA's. If you want to consider PK's a true measure of soccer ability then, by all means, do so. I won't be doing that. Also, with the exception of this year, E8 Lacrosse comes down to  two teams: Naz and Ithaca; this isn't even debatable.

Actually, it is debatable.  Ithaca has been finishing at or near the top of the standings in soccer and lacrosse (with RIT and Naz).  The difference, RIT and Nazareth have been taking care of business in the postseason tournament, while Ithaca has been choking.


And, with the money Fisher has poured into their football program, the money RIT has invested in afthletics (the huge fieldhouse project, hockey) -- Ithaca's dominance of the conference athletically is ending (and it's being seen in the results). 

Alfred has a good thing going on with their football program as well.  That stadium is beautiful and it looks like their coaching staff is recruiting.

Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 03:02:52 PM
I also said athletics department, so that includes the ladies, too. I'm just trying to give them equal time.

You're a staunch Title IX defender!  Your significant other must be very proud of that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2007, 03:17:17 PM
I will say Ithaca has had the best athletic department...but I don't see them staying on top for much longer as fisher gains confidence in football...the lacrosse programs aren't bad anymore so fisher is definatly coming up but Ithaca right now can say that they have had the best AD
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on January 31, 2007, 03:29:15 PM
I'll be the first to say that we have been lucky with those 2 guys.  In fact i would even take it a step further, if we didn't land those 2 we may in the bottom half of the league over the past few years.  But with that being said, we did get them and we are now the best team.

Luck - Hardwork - whatever you want to chalk it up to, it is what it is.  In my opinion recruiting to the rochester schools and Ithaca have to be easier than what Hartwick, Elmira, Alfred, and we face.  So I'll take anyway we can get em!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2007, 03:36:32 PM
sorry clear your not the best team till you win a league championship....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 03:45:37 PM
Bamm, if you want to call losing in PK's a "choke job," be my guest. I think our men's team has won all, or all but one, of the E8 regular season titles. By the way, Ithaca is also building a huge athletics facility. Now, they won't have to only recruit with tradition.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 03:46:48 PM
sorry to take you off on your high horse gobombers but you can have your baseball (who split with fisher this year) and SOCCER. But fisher has basetball and has taken control of football without a debt and it looks as if they will be dominating for a long time now, the only reason ithaca had it before was bc fisher was a brand new program, but its over now.  So be happy and keep bragging about your dominance in sports that no one cares about at d3 schools haha.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 03:58:04 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 03:46:48 PM
sorry to take you off on your high horse gobombers but you can have your baseball (who split with fisher this year) and SOCCER. But fisher has basetball and has taken control of football without a debt and it looks as if they will be dominating for a long time now, the only reason ithaca had it before was bc fisher was a brand new program, but its over now.  So be happy and keep bragging about your dominance in sports that no one cares about at d3 schools haha.

1) You've beat us twice at football. EVER.

2) You have beaten us ZERO times in Ithaca at football. EVER.

3) Your precious little RB's are gone now. We'll see what happens this year at Butterfield.

4) Taken control of football? How many outright E8 titles in football has Fisher won? For those of you scoring at home, ZERO.

5) We own you at baseball. Period. Little victories I guess when you can knock off Ithaca in one game of a doubleheader, huh?

I love when you post, FD. You really make me feel a lot smarter.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2007, 04:00:18 PM
Dynasty....bombers is right...the only thing we have on ithaca is that we've made it farther in the football NCAA's then they have...and yes I know you guys have won a national championship  but that was a long time ago...  Fisher's prorgrams are starting to gain some momentum...we are not there yet but we are on our way
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on January 31, 2007, 04:03:52 PM
I'll ignore FisherDynasty's idiocy.

I wasn't trying to take anything away from Ithaca's past success.  They, undoubtedly, have an athletics program that is highly successful and well-regarded.

However, other schools in the area are quickly catching up.  I spoke of Fisher and RIT because I am most familiar with them, and the money they have invested.  The facilities are just part of a good athletics program, of course.  It helps when the school is affordable, when the staff is stable, recruits hard, and coaches well, and the school is attractive for academic purposes.  

Some of the schools in the E8 are close to, or on equal footing with Ithaca in those areas.  The results on the playing field are beginning to show that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DR. BELLY HOOPS on January 31, 2007, 04:35:53 PM
Listen GOBOMBERS... If going into feb. undefeated in a college basketball conference isn't steamrolling...i dont know what is...I know it's tough to deal with the fact that Utica is the best team in the E8 but get used to it. They will be good for a while.You can shrug the Doctor of all you want but the you can't shrug off Utica; because they aren't goin anywhere big guy. -The Doctor
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 04:48:14 PM
Quote from: DR. BELLY HOOPS on January 31, 2007, 04:35:53 PM
Listen GOBOMBERS... If going into feb. undefeated in a college basketball conference isn't steamrolling...i dont know what is...I know it's tough to deal with the fact that Utica is the best team in the E8 but get used to it. They will be good for a while.You can shrug the Doctor of all you want but the you can't shrug off Utica; because they aren't goin anywhere big guy. -The Doctor

No, I don't call a double-OT victory on your home floor or a two-point victory on a last second shot against the sixth best team in the conference "steamrolling." Call me crazy.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 05:00:00 PM
Doc, I think next year may be a little bit of a rebuilding year for Utica. Herring returns, but Bryant/Lighthall/Collier will all be gone. Not sure if Goodman (who looks like my 14 yr old brother in his pic) and McClendon will be able to shoulder more of the load. Munch is a solid player but will he be a viable second option?

Also, consider the glut of good young players on all of the other teams. It may be a little bit of a down year for Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 05:28:39 PM
GoBombers,

Your ignorance is greater than my expectations.  that was a horrible come back.  Anyways, as I SAID, fisher's football program is brand new of course they dont has good of a past as ithaca's.  As of right now and the future outlook, I foresee them controlling the football rivalry as they do in basketball, thats all.  If you look at the past few years, fisher has came closer and closer and now finally in my eyes surpassed ithaca in football and will from now on, obviously there will be some years will ithaca wins too, it is a good program.  Anyways, who brings up and brags about other sports in the basketball boards, lets stick to bball.  also, althought Doc has been out of control on his posts, I think Utica will be good from hear on in, goodemote will bring in more guys and make his players better to always be in the top 4 as long as he is there.  Bryant/lighthall/collier, all good, bryant really good. are replaceable.  Herrig will be older, their younger big guys will be much more mature, and im sure they will bring in some other transfers or good fresh.  You don't have to bring in much to squeeze into the top 4 when besides the top 2 on any given year are well below mediocre.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 31, 2007, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: bamm on January 31, 2007, 02:57:01 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 02:45:22 PM

They were stiffer than bill clinton on viagara.


That joke was just terrible enough to make me laugh out loud.  Nice work, maybe you should submit your writer's resume to Leno.

Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 02:45:22 PM

Did you go to the sweet 16 last year? How sweet is the amherst gym? I was impressed with the building.

I've been to the Amherst gym, and I don't remember being impressed.  My highschool gym (graduating class: 163) is more impressive, and probably seats more.  Several E8 teams have bigger, better gyms... they just don't have the attendance to make the environment fun.

Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 01:15:23 PM
Seriously. I hate being an alum of the most consistently successful athletic department in the conference. That sucks.

Because I've got 10 minutes to kill, I'll take a look at who's been dominating the men's athletics landscape in each sport since I've been following it (6 years or so).

Basketball:  Fisher
Football:  Ithaca and Fisher
Baseball:  Ithaca
Lacrosse:  Nazareth and RIT
Soccer:  Nazareth, RIT, and Alfred

The E8 doesn't exist as a hockey conference.  But as an alum, I'm not going to miss an opportunity to state that RIT's D1 team is winning their conference and on the verge of cracking the college hockey Top 20 in their 2nd season as a D1 program.

I like your picks in every sport except for Soccer. As an ex Fisher soccer player I have to disagree. RIT, is one of the better programs recently, Fisher has been much better than Alfred in the past 6 years. Naz? ok maybe...Ithaca is by far the class of the conference. better overall record every year than other teams, more #1 seeds in the E8 tourny than anybody, and easily the most talented team. The problem is that most E8 tourny's end up with a 3 seed playing a 4 seed in the finals and most of the time an average 4 seed winning. I thnk IC, before this year, was the #1 seed every year, and lost in the first round every year as well...l

Now that I got my soccer kick...How about the football argument? Fisher can not compete with Ithaca as far as history goes, IC is probably the most storied program in NY, maybe only second to Rowan in the east region. However, Fisher has taken the reins as the best program in the conference the past 3 years.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 31, 2007, 06:51:11 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 04:48:14 PM
Quote from: DR. BELLY HOOPS on January 31, 2007, 04:35:53 PM
Listen GOBOMBERS... If going into feb. undefeated in a college basketball conference isn't steamrolling...i dont know what is...I know it's tough to deal with the fact that Utica is the best team in the E8 but get used to it. They will be good for a while.You can shrug the Doctor of all you want but the you can't shrug off Utica; because they aren't goin anywhere big guy. -The Doctor

No, I don't call a double-OT victory on your home floor or a two-point victory on a last second shot against the sixth best team in the conference "steamrolling." Call me crazy.

or struggling with a bad Hartwick team...and outside of the league, they are winning but barely beating teams that "great" teams should roll over Oswego by 1? a loss to Clarkson? They are the team to beat, but they are not as Solid as some UC fans would have you believe.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on January 31, 2007, 06:58:41 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on January 31, 2007, 06:40:15 PM

I like your picks in every sport except for Soccer. As an ex Fisher soccer player I have to disagree. RIT, is one of the better programs recently, Fisher has been much better than Alfred in the past 6 years. Naz? ok maybe...Ithaca is by far the class of the conference. better overall record every year than other teams, more #1 seeds in the E8 tourny than anybody, and easily the most talented team. The problem is that most E8 tourny's end up with a 3 seed playing a 4 seed in the finals and most of the time an average 4 seed winning. I thnk IC, before this year, was the #1 seed every year, and lost in the first round every year as well...l

Now that I got my soccer kick...How about the football argument? Fisher can not compete with Ithaca as far as history goes, IC is probably the most storied program in NY, maybe only second to Rowan in the east region. However, Fisher has taken the reins as the best program in the conference the past 3 years.


Fisher is the best at everything just because they're Fisher. Makes no difference what results may be....Fisher is the best.

2006 St. John Fisher Men's Soccer Team (3-14) lost to AU (7-7-4) 2-1, but Fisher was definitely the better team.

However, Fisher has NEVER beaten Alfred in the pool. AU men's team finished its 2006-07 season UNDEFEATED in dual meets for the first time in 18 years, having beaten all Empire 8 teams.

Everyone into the pool....


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 31, 2007, 07:17:04 PM
Not the intention of my post pep...

Fisher had a very, very, very bad season in soccer this year, the post was about the past 6 or so years.

In the past six years, FIsher has finished higher in the standings than AU. With this year, and 2001 as an exception when Fisher finished 4th and AU finished tied for first. AU did win the E8 tourny in '03, but did it as a 4 seed while Fisher was 2 seed based on a tie breaker situation with IC. Before this year, in 2000 Fisher finished third in the league while AU finished 4th. 2002, Fisher tied for 3rd with AU,
04, Fisher finished 2nd AU 5th, (fisher 3-0 vs AU that season) 05, Fisher 2nd AU 5th. and last year, well whatever AU did was better than Fisher

I am not a "Fisher is the best athletic program" guys. I did not mean to infer that Fisher athletics walk hand in hand with god. I was just questioning the list of the best soccer programs. I would put it this way:
1) IC
2)RIT
3)Naz
4)Fisher
5)AU
6)Elmira
7)Utica...Hartwick has no E8 team, Division 1
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 07:23:49 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 05:28:39 PM
GoBombers,

Your ignorance is greater than my expectations.  that was a horrible come back.  Anyways, as I SAID, fisher's football program is brand new of course they dont has good of a past as ithaca's.  As of right now and the future outlook, I foresee them controlling the football rivalry as they do in basketball, thats all.  If you look at the past few years, fisher has came closer and closer and now finally in my eyes surpassed ithaca in football and will from now on, obviously there will be some years will ithaca wins too, it is a good program.  Anyways, who brings up and brags about other sports in the basketball boards, lets stick to bball.  also, althought Doc has been out of control on his posts, I think Utica will be good from hear on in, goodemote will bring in more guys and make his players better to always be in the top 4 as long as he is there.  Bryant/lighthall/collier, all good, bryant really good. are replaceable.  Herrig will be older, their younger big guys will be much more mature, and im sure they will bring in some other transfers or good fresh.  You don't have to bring in much to squeeze into the top 4 when besides the top 2 on any given year are well below mediocre.

1) "That was a horrible comeback." Are we in 5th grade sitting at the lunch table? Who still uses the term "comeback?"

2) Fisher has not taken control of the conference in football, by any means. I think if you mentioned that over on the other board, you'd likely be met with a lot of skepticism even by your own fans.

3) As for coming closer and closer, I'll agree with that. Fisher has proven to be a worthy challenger for Ithaca. However, as has been said many times, let's just see if they can maintain this and make sure it's not a product of one of the better RB's we've seen in some time (Robinson). Lots of programs have risen up and challenged Ithaca but most, if not all, couldn't sustain it. Time will tell.

4) What makes you think Fisher has passed IC? Because you won a game by a score of 34-10? A game that Ithaca could have easily led 24-0 going into half had they cashed in on their opportunities that they usually convert? We had a first-year starter on the road and, predictably, he didn't have a great second half when he had to make plays. Sound familiar? Eh hem, 2005. Eh hem, Nich Suchnya. Eh hem, 4 picks. Eh hem, pick six to lose the game for Fisher. Yeah, that probably reminded you. It was a good win for Fisher this year, but  by no means have they passed Ithaca. Be happy to be in the same league as them.

5) "I see them controlling the rivalry like they do in basketball." That will never happen. I can assure you of that.

6) Fisher football will still have to prove that it can be more than an "every other year" team. This year you have to go to Springfield, who will be looking to avenge the playoff loss, and Ithaca. Prove it.

7) What am I ignorant of? Did you even mention that in your post? Or were you just throwing that word in for effect?

I will not be discussing football anymore on this board, unless prompted. If you want to carry this conversation over there, I'd be more than happy to. Let me know. But be prepared to back up your arguments a little more if you're going to go over there and say some of that stuff.

SJFC, you'd put RIT above Naz for soccer? Interesting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2007, 07:30:06 PM
gobombers most of your sutff is on except the amount of picks that sooch threw...the pick 6 was actually his first interception of the season
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 07:36:45 PM
I was sure he threw a few in that game. Fisher turned the ball over like four times in that game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 31, 2007, 07:37:49 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 07:23:49 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 05:28:39 PM
GoBombers,

SJFC, you'd put RIT above Naz for soccer? Interesting.
s

Ummm...yes...Considering RIT has never missed an E8 tournament, won the league two years ago, as well as consistently the 2nd best team in the league. Not to mention 3 straight conference titles before the three years before the e8 tourny existed.
Meanwhile, outside of this year Naz has never been a top 2 seed in the e8 tourny. Naz upset a far superior, by their own admission, team in Fisher in 03, to get to the tourny final, and before this year the one time they won the tourny they were a 4 seeed. This year they were quite good, however, look at the league records for the past 6 years...Ask someone who has been around the league for a few years.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 08:05:55 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on January 31, 2007, 07:37:49 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 07:23:49 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 05:28:39 PM
GoBombers,

SJFC, you'd put RIT above Naz for soccer? Interesting.
s

Ummm...yes...Considering RIT has never missed an E8 tournament, won the league two years ago, as well as consistently the 2nd best team in the league. Not to mention 3 straight conference titles before the three years before the e8 tourny existed.
Meanwhile, outside of this year Naz has never been a top 2 seed in the e8 tourny. Naz upset a far superior, by their own admission, team in Fisher in 03, to get to the tourny final, and before this year the one time they won the tourny they were a 4 seeed. This year they were quite good, however, look at the league records for the past 6 years...Ask someone who has been around the league for a few years.

Just asking, because while I was at IC (00-04), it always seemed like the big game was Naz. Granted, I haven't paid much attention since I left. Maybe Naz was good then when they had Dargout & Co. Guy was a beast. BTW, Ithaca did win the E8 Tourney once. I think it was the first year it was in existence. Beat Naz, 2-1, on an Eric Deyle goal late in the 2nd half, if I remember correctly. Caz would probably know better than I.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2007, 09:20:17 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 07:36:45 PM
I was sure he threw a few in that game. Fisher turned the ball over like four times in that game.
Ithaca won the overtime coin toss and elected to play defense on the first series. The Cardinals gained 16 yards on four plays before sophomore Nick Suchyna (St. Francis/Buffalo) threw his first career interception ? a pass that Struzzi picked off at his own nine and returned 91 yards for the winning score. Suchyna entered game ranked third nationally in passing efficiency and had thrown 107 passes this fall without an interception.


would you like to eat crow now or later
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on January 31, 2007, 09:32:19 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 08:05:55 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on January 31, 2007, 07:37:49 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 07:23:49 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 05:28:39 PM
GoBombers,

SJFC, you'd put RIT above Naz for soccer? Interesting.
s

Ummm...yes...Considering RIT has never missed an E8 tournament, won the league two years ago, as well as consistently the 2nd best team in the league. Not to mention 3 straight conference titles before the three years before the e8 tourny existed.
Meanwhile, outside of this year Naz has never been a top 2 seed in the e8 tourny. Naz upset a far superior, by their own admission, team in Fisher in 03, to get to the tourny final, and before this year the one time they won the tourny they were a 4 seeed. This year they were quite good, however, look at the league records for the past 6 years...Ask someone who has been around the league for a few years.

Just asking, because while I was at IC (00-04), it always seemed like the big game was Naz. Granted, I haven't paid much attention since I left. Maybe Naz was good then when they had Dargout & Co. Guy was a beast. BTW, Ithaca did win the E8 Tourney once. I think it was the first year it was in existence. Beat Naz, 2-1, on an Eric Deyle goal late in the 2nd half, if I remember correctly. Caz would probably know better than I.

Bombers...I believe you are correct. My mistake. It was the 4 years after that they were bounced in the first round. Either way IC is still the class of the E8 conference in soccer. I would have to say that they would have that distinction in most sports.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
I have been a long time reader of the D3 Hoops message boards but until now have chosen not to participate. The reason....I am the play by play man for the Utica Pioneers and during Tuesday night's men's victory over Hartwick I mentioned the Player of the Year debate taking place on this message board...so I figured it was time to chime in. This is my fourth season with Utica College and before that I attended SUNY Brockport and broadcasted their games for four seasons, so I have seen plenty of D3 hoops over the past decade. I say this not to brag or to claim that I know more then anyone else here...just to let you all know where I am coming from. I have enjoyed the many debates that I have seen in this thread and the trash talking as well.

I plan on now becoming an active member of the board and if you guys are interested I can give an analysis of the games I call (or not if no one cares what I have to say). For those who have not heard my broadcasts, I will admit...I am a homer....but even though it is obvious who I am rooting for on the air I believe I always make fair comments when it comes to the game action....and don't just always say it is a bad call when the Pioneers get called for fouls.

Just wanted to check in on a few subjects for now...

1-Player of the Year- To tough to call right now. Because it is Player of the Year and not MVP I would not discount Jan Cocozziello just because his team is not in the mix. However, I would lean towards either Ray Bryant or Doug Herring (I know, I know...what a homer) but honestly they have to be the favorites. I have thought long and hard about which of the two I would put first and for now I think it is dead even (lame answer I know). I think the last 6-games will break the tie.

2-Toughest Home court-There is no debate it is St. John Fisher...I get nervous walking in there and I don't even play. When school is in session that gym is an almost impossible place for a visiting team to pick up a victory. By the way according to St. John Fisher S.I.D Norm Kieffer, I have called more Cardinal games (Football, Men's Hoops, and Women's Hoops) then any other opposing broadcaster.

3-Best Sports Programs-I hate to say it but the answer is Ithaca. They dominate or at least in the mix in almost every sport.

4-Hatred of St. John Fisher and Ithaca-As a Brockport Alum...I actually hate SUNY Cortland more then any other college. I don't hate Fisher at all (although I am not thrilled with Football Coach Paul Vosburgh...who I believe has ran it up on UC in the past). Ithaca....hmmm...I respect the school and the sports programs there...but I often get the feeling when I am there that many of the students and faculty have their noses in the air. I'll leave it at that.

5-UC lucking into Ray Bryant and Tim Troy-While I agree the Pioneers were very lucky to have both of those excellent player...they made there own luck because of Coach Goodemote. Had he not been the coach both of those players likely never lace it up for the Pioneers.

6-This years Pioneers-vs.-last years Pioneers-While the losses of Justin Cichon
and Willie Lucas were big I do not believe last year's team was better. Right now I would have to say this year's squad is slightly better. I think they are slightly weaker from the perimeter but much better in the paint and defensively. I believe conference wins no matter what the margin are quality especially on the road. However, the Pioneers do have more to prove before we call them a juggernaut.

In closing (man have I babbled on for a long time) let me just say it is hard to break down a team when you have only seen them play one time this year...which many of you and I have done so far. To say the Pioneers are not that good based on their one game with Fisher (in which they were weak offensively....mostly because of great Fisher Def) but great defensively would be an injustice. Ithaca was terrible in their game versus the Pioneers but I won't condemn them off that one game (although I probably did to my friends later that day).

If I missed some topics I'm sure I will get to it at another time. Let the attacks begin!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2007, 10:18:58 PM
great comments....I agree with the Varsity gym...if you want to get a true feeling of what this gym can be...go there friday night for Fisher-Naz I can guarntee you that it will be the loudest DIII gym in the country on that night...other than that it is a tough place to play...any place where the students litterly sit on the court is a tough place to play.

I remember more than one game having to sit on a step or stand for an entire game because there was not enough room and for Naz well as much as Fisher can't stand ithaca we hate naz 10 times more... Just Say no to Naz
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 11:18:30 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 31, 2007, 09:20:17 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 07:36:45 PM
I was sure he threw a few in that game. Fisher turned the ball over like four times in that game.
Ithaca won the overtime coin toss and elected to play defense on the first series. The Cardinals gained 16 yards on four plays before sophomore Nick Suchyna (St. Francis/Buffalo) threw his first career interception ? a pass that Struzzi picked off at his own nine and returned 91 yards for the winning score. Suchyna entered game ranked third nationally in passing efficiency and had thrown 107 passes this fall without an interception.


would you like to eat crow now or later

I don't think it has anything to do with "eating crow" trying to recall a game from almost 18 months ago without the aid of looking anything up. Bottom line, your young QB had a two-TD lead in the 2nd half and didn't get the job done; the same way Juvan didn't get it done this year. And, with all due respect, I don't think they asked Suchnya to throw a pass longer than 8 yards that entire game. It was all bubble screens to Noah and hitting the RB's in the flat.

Adam, good to have you aboard. Nobody has a problem with someone being a "homer." It's when they let that favoritism affect the way they think instead of analyzing things objectively. We have a couple of those people in here and I'm sure you already know who they are. You seem to have facts backing up all your arguments and that's all anyone can ask for. That is preferred to those who nitpick and take potshots when they can. Again, good to have you here and it will be nice to hear from a (somewhat) objective Utica fan (though, Clear and UCgrad have been better, relative to last year). However, this Doctor guy is insane.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2007, 11:20:54 PM
Adam, I think ray will end up getting it due to seniority, they also did lose a game they probably shouldnt have when he was gone.  Whats your predictions on the Fisher vs Utica game 2nd round? I think Fisher, then Utica in the E8 Champ at Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 11:28:57 PM
May sound like a cop out...but I never give predictions for games that I broadcast. However, I think the game at Fisher will be an excellent battle...they are the two best defensive teams I have seen play all season.

I think Utica is the better team but not by much...but as I said Fisher has a big time home court advantage. I think the key to a Pioneer victory at Fisher is to not fall behind by alot and to not allow Muller to get hot from three. The key for Fisher will be to prevent Utica from scoring alot of points in transition and to slow down either Ray or Doug.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2007, 11:32:57 PM
GB15 lets also remember that our rookie qb's all-american running back sepperated his shoulder and when robinson went down so did the offense as Riele was not able to step in and do what Robie had been doing... and eat crow is a figure of speach when someone gets something wrong...you got a stat wrong I went and found proof to prove to you that you were wrong....

Adam-no worries about being a homer...I think we are all homers...and so far you seem better than the other announcer I've had an experiance with on here... Frank Rossi who does football for union was a big enemy of fisher fans for a couple of days....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 11:41:10 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 31, 2007, 11:32:57 PM
GB15 lets also remember that our rookie qb's all-american running back sepperated his shoulder and when robinson went down so did the offense as Riele was not able to step in and do what Robie had been doing... and eat crow is a figure of speach when someone gets something wrong...you got a stat wrong I went and found proof to prove to you that you were wrong....

Adam-no worries about being a homer...I think we are all homers...and so far you seem better than the other announcer I've had an experiance with on here... Frank Rossi who does football for union was a big enemy of fisher fans for a couple of days....
f

Fair enough, but Reile isn't why Fisher lost that game. Robbie went out early and Fisher still built a two-TD lead. Turnovers and the inability of the Fisher D to stop IC in the second half was their undoing. That's the last I'll say about that game.

On to basketball...the big games this weekend revolve around Fisher as the Cards host RIT for their thirteenth meeting of the season, as well as East Ave rival Naz. I think the Cards sweep.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 11:45:02 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 11:18:30 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 31, 2007, 09:20:17 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 07:36:45 PM
I was sure he threw a few in that game. Fisher turned the ball over like four times in that game.
Ithaca won the overtime coin toss and elected to play defense on the first series. The Cardinals gained 16 yards on four plays before sophomore Nick Suchyna (St. Francis/Buffalo) threw his first career interception ? a pass that Struzzi picked off at his own nine and returned 91 yards for the winning score. Suchyna entered game ranked third nationally in passing efficiency and had thrown 107 passes this fall without an interception.


would you like to eat crow now or later

I don't think it has anything to do with "eating crow" trying to recall a game from almost 18 months ago without the aid of looking anything up. Bottom line, your young QB had a two-TD lead in the 2nd half and didn't get the job done; the same way Juvan didn't get it done this year. And, with all due respect, I don't think they asked Suchnya to throw a pass longer than 8 yards that entire game. It was all bubble screens to Noah and hitting the RB's in the flat.

Adam, good to have you aboard. Nobody has a problem with someone being a "homer." It's when they let that favoritism affect the way they think instead of analyzing things objectively. We have a couple of those people in here and I'm sure you already know who they are. You seem to have facts backing up all your arguments and that's all anyone can ask for. That is preferred to those who nitpick and take potshots when they can. Again, good to have you here and it will be nice to hear from a (somewhat) objective Utica fan (though, Clear and UCgrad have been better, relative to last year). However, this Doctor guy is insane.


Because I was so far off with my assesment of Utica last year. You know, the one where I talked about how they were good, but would really show what they could do at the end of the season when they got used to playing together.... (cough) sweet 16 (cough). Including a player by player analysis which were all pretty much dead accurate when it was all said and done.

I'll give you clear and the Dr., but come on man. You need to be a little more objective when describing those representing Utica on here.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 31, 2007, 11:53:46 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 31, 2007, 10:18:58 PM
great comments....I agree with the Varsity gym...if you want to get a true feeling of what this gym can be...go there friday night for Fisher-Naz I can guarntee you that it will be the loudest DIII gym in the country on that night...other than that it is a tough place to play...any place where the students litterly sit on the court is a tough place to play.

I remember more than one game having to sit on a step or stand for an entire game because there was not enough room and for Naz well as much as Fisher can't stand ithaca we hate naz 10 times more... Just Say no to Naz


Honestly, I don't think any team out there likes naz. I can't stand them ever since they had Evans. Dude was as dirty as they get.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 01, 2007, 12:00:43 AM
UC question how many times did you lose to Fisher last year do I hear 4...there's a difference about everyone else hating naz and fisher hating naz...I mean it's like UNC-Duke of DIII it is one of the best rivalries in d3 hoops and it gets better with every year
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 12:06:12 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 01, 2007, 12:00:43 AM
UC question how many times did you lose to Fisher last year do I hear 4...there's a difference about everyone else hating naz and fisher hating naz...I mean it's like UNC-Duke of DIII it is one of the best rivalries in d3 hoops and it gets better with every year

Oh I totally understand. I am friends with many of the past fisher players and students.

That being said, I have disliked naz since I saw evans intentionally try to injure a former player who was unable to defend himself during a game. I was even more angry with them after a game which came down to the last few seconds, and the naz scoretable ran off almost a full minute from the clock in between free throws. They were called out on it, and then lied to the ref about it, even though it was clearly marked in the scorebook that the ft's were made almost a full minute apart.

I love beating naz. Not as much as fisher fans do, but it is still a great feeling.

On edit: What does Utica against fisher last year have to do with my post to gb? I claimed Utica was a team with a lot of talent that could do some damage at the end of the season. That is exactly what they did, regardless of who they lost too. They only lost to 3 teams last year. They had match up problems with bigger teams. That doesn't change that my assesment of them from day 1 was very much accurate.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 01, 2007, 12:15:50 AM
I'm sorry I come from the school that if you play the same team four different times...you should beat them once or even come close...the closest you came to fisher was 8 points on your floor...and my hatred for naz esclated 10 fold after the "fight" I mean your player cheapshots our guy, your player runs off the bench in street clothing and sucker punches again...and fisher and fisher fans are blamed for the fight...ok so I'm gonna stop here cuz I don't want this whole debate started up again...because it got ugly and d3hoops got draged through the mud with it
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 12:20:45 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 01, 2007, 12:15:50 AM
I'm sorry I come from the school that if you play the same team four different times...you should beat them once or even come close...the closest you came to fisher was 8 points on your floor...and my hatred for naz esclated 10 fold after the "fight" I mean your player cheapshots our guy, your player runs off the bench in street clothing and sucker punches again...and fisher and fisher fans are blamed for the fight...ok so I'm gonna stop here cuz I don't want this whole debate started up again...because it got ugly and d3hoops got draged through the mud with it


Ok, that still doesn't change that my assesment of the team last year was very much accurate. They made the sweet 16. At the start of the season, nobody even gave them a shot to make the tournament.

Like I said, last year, fisher had a huge advantage inside, especially when jack went down late in the season. Not much you can do about that, you play with what you have. Match up problems happen, but it doesn't change that Utica was a very good team that went on a tear late in the season, just as I had suggested they would.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 01, 2007, 12:28:55 AM
I don't consider a tear losing to the same team twice with in a two week period... and not just losing getting spanked by fisher...yes Utica did a great job last year...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 12:32:30 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 01, 2007, 12:28:55 AM
I don't consider a tear losing to the same team twice with in a two week period... and not just losing getting spanked by fisher...yes Utica did a great job last year...


I'd say beating every team but fisher over a long period of time and winning two game in the ncaa that you were the overwhelming underdog in, one of which was on their homecourt, is a prime example of a team showing what it can do at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 01, 2007, 12:53:35 AM
ok I'm wrong UC...You are the greatest poster ever on d3hoops.com and Utica should be ranked number 1 in the nation...I'm sorry I didn't realize that you are the greatest
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 03:26:52 AM
Adam,

The schools have the ability to post links for audio broadcasts on our schedule, but not all schools take advantage. We don't have the manpower to hunt down info for every school.

Send me a link and a broadcast schedule for you guys and we'll try to get them posted. Thanks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 08:33:58 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 01, 2007, 12:53:35 AM
ok I'm wrong UC...You are the greatest poster ever on d3hoops.com and Utica should be ranked number 1 in the nation...I'm sorry I didn't realize that you are the greatest

Because that is exactly what I said.

But at least you can admit it.  ;)

Not sure why you jumped on the gb bandwagon. He has had it in for me ever since he gauaranteed the ithica win that didn't happen against Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 01, 2007, 08:35:27 AM
ok boys- calm down.
This is UC's one year to show that they have something.
I really believe that Fisher's down year gives opportunity for UC---however it wont last long.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 01, 2007, 09:20:22 AM
Thought I would check in on the boards with my morning coffee.  I gotta say the Chairman is shocked at the amount of animosity on the E8 hoop boards.  What gives over here boys?  Why do you all hate each other?  FA91, we need to get things in order.

Also, welcome to Adam, hopefully you will hang out on the Football boards next fall as well.  Imagine, three whole Utica posters over there.


Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
I attended SUNY Brockport and broadcasted their games for four seasons, so I have seen plenty of D3 hoops over the past decade.

Did you perchance share the booth and the airwaves with one PortGrad04?

Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
Ithaca....hmmm...I respect the school and the sports programs there...but I often get the feeling when I am there that many of the students and faculty have their noses in the air. I'll leave it at that.

I'll admit to this.  I am snobby about IC athletics.  But that is what happens when you win so consistently.  It is almost unfathomable when we actually lose at something.  Ask the Fisher boys that follow the hoop team, they must have a little taste of that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 09:28:47 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 01, 2007, 09:20:22 AM
Thought I would check in on the boards with my morning coffee.  I gotta say the Chairman is shocked at the amount of animosity on the E8 hoop boards.  What gives over here boys?  Why do you all hate each other?  FA91, we need to get things in order.

Also, welcome to Adam, hopefully you will hang out on the Football boards next fall as well.  Imagine, three whole Utica posters over there.


Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
I attended SUNY Brockport and broadcasted their games for four seasons, so I have seen plenty of D3 hoops over the past decade.

Did you perchance share the booth and the airwaves with one PortGrad04?

Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
Ithaca....hmmm...I respect the school and the sports programs there...but I often get the feeling when I am there that many of the students and faculty have their noses in the air. I'll leave it at that.

I'll admit to this.  I am snobby about IC athletics.  But that is what happens when you win so consistently.  It is almost unfathomable when we actually lose at something.  Ask the Fisher boys that follow the hoop team, they must have a little taste of that.

Nah, GB just can't take a little friendly ribbing. Especially when he knows a season sweep is coming on friday.

I just wasn't sure what exactly it was that I said about Utica last year that was so off the wall. I gave a early season look into what the team was like, and it was pretty much dead on. Not sure what is up with superman either. Maybe he is worried that UC has found some kryptonite? Dude got all mad because someone from another school dared to not like naz as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 01, 2007, 09:39:57 AM
Mr. Chair- i agree!
After dealing with the "feel good" attitude on the FB board- this one is a wreck!
I think we need to get people in line!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 09:53:58 AM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 09:28:47 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 01, 2007, 09:20:22 AM
Thought I would check in on the boards with my morning coffee.  I gotta say the Chairman is shocked at the amount of animosity on the E8 hoop boards.  What gives over here boys?  Why do you all hate each other?  FA91, we need to get things in order.

Also, welcome to Adam, hopefully you will hang out on the Football boards next fall as well.  Imagine, three whole Utica posters over there.


Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
I attended SUNY Brockport and broadcasted their games for four seasons, so I have seen plenty of D3 hoops over the past decade.

Did you perchance share the booth and the airwaves with one PortGrad04?

Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
Ithaca....hmmm...I respect the school and the sports programs there...but I often get the feeling when I am there that many of the students and faculty have their noses in the air. I'll leave it at that.

I'll admit to this.  I am snobby about IC athletics.  But that is what happens when you win so consistently.  It is almost unfathomable when we actually lose at something.  Ask the Fisher boys that follow the hoop team, they must have a little taste of that.

Nah, GB just can't take a little friendly ribbing. Especially when he knows a season sweep is coming on friday.

I just wasn't sure what exactly it was that I said about Utica last year that was so off the wall. I gave a early season look into what the team was like, and it was pretty much dead on. Not sure what is up with superman either. Maybe he is worried that UC has found some kryptonite? Dude got all mad because someone from another school dared to not like naz as well.

I think that's wrong. I think you take potshots (unfounded ones, at that) at Ithaca whenever you get the opportunity. I also think you try your damndest to pass off every other E8 team is far inferior to UC when, in fact, Utica and Fisher are probably on the same level (even your own radio guy suggested as much!). I just come back at you with facts and point out flaws in your argument (see citing the 2003-04 E8 title game instead of last year's...which is more relevant?). That's all. I can take any amount of ribbing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DR. BELLY HOOPS on February 01, 2007, 10:16:56 AM
With all due respect to the chairman; I think this is a great room. Sports are about competition and this is a reflection of that. Who would listen to sports talk radio if guys like Mike and The Mad Dog weren't on everyday arguing New York sports? We all have pride in our respective teams and this is the forum to show it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:18:25 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 01, 2007, 09:20:22 AM
Thought I would check in on the boards with my morning coffee.  I gotta say the Chairman is shocked at the amount of animosity on the E8 hoop boards.  What gives over here boys?  Why do you all hate each other?  FA91, we need to get things in order.

Also, welcome to Adam, hopefully you will hang out on the Football boards next fall as well.  Imagine, three whole Utica posters over there.


Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
I attended SUNY Brockport and broadcasted their games for four seasons, so I have seen plenty of D3 hoops over the past decade.

Did you perchance share the booth and the airwaves with one PortGrad04?

Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
Ithaca....hmmm...I respect the school and the sports programs there...but I often get the feeling when I am there that many of the students and faculty have their noses in the air. I'll leave it at that.

I'll admit to this.  I am snobby about IC athletics.  But that is what happens when you win so consistently.  It is almost unfathomable when we actually lose at something.  Ask the Fisher boys that follow the hoop team, they must have a little taste of that.

Chairman, perhaps you should "check in" more often.  The more people who speak in the third person I have in my life, the better.

Adam, I caught your work on the Utica/Fisher game a couple of weeks ago.  I thought you did a nice job.  It sounded like there was a decent crowd there as well.  There's no arguing you're a homer (as is your color guy), but I don't think anyone tuning in to a division III Utica College basketball contest expects anything else.

As to the best homecourt advantage, I'll agree it's undoubtedly Fisher.  That place is tiny and it gets really, really loud.  On top of that, I've seen guys from RIT, Ithaca, and Utica all make huge, clutch shots late in games while the gym is rocking, only to have Fisher come down (SOB was amazing at this) and outdo them every freaking time.  And believe me, it kills me to bring that up.

That being said, I think Utica beats them there this season.  And I wouldn't be surprised if someone else does too (RIT or Naz). 


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 01, 2007, 10:28:58 AM
Quote from: DR. BELLY HOOPS on February 01, 2007, 10:16:56 AM
With all due respect to the chairman; I think this is a great room. Sports are about competition and this is a reflection of that. Who would listen to sports talk radio if guys like Mike and The Mad Dog weren't on everyday arguing New York sports? We all have pride in our respective teams and this is the forum to show it.

NY sportstalk makes me want to kill myself.  But the Chairman agrees that competition is good.  The Chairman just thinks posters on the E8 board tend to take themselves too seriously.

Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:18:25 AM
Chairman, perhaps you should "check in" more often.  The more people who speak in the third person I have in my life, the better.

The third person comes from the football boards.  It also comes from the Chairman's recognition that the office is bigger than any one man. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:35:34 AM
One thing that I don't understand, that I haven't seen or heard anyone doing yet (if someone has seen this, what were the results?) -- full court press Fisher for an entire game.  Especially the teams that play a lot of guys like Utica and RIT.

They lose a 3 year starter at point and replace him with Mueller, who is a nice shooter but is not half the ball handler SOB was, and a freshman. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 01, 2007, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:35:34 AM
One thing that I don't understand, that I haven't seen or heard anyone doing yet (if someone has seen this, what were the results?) -- full court press Fisher for an entire game.  Especially the teams that play a lot of guys like Utica and RIT.

They lose a 3 year starter at point and replace him with Mueller, who is a nice shooter but is not half the ball handler SOB was, and a freshman. 

Doesn't Brockport play a press?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 10:46:32 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 01, 2007, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:35:34 AM
One thing that I don't understand, that I haven't seen or heard anyone doing yet (if someone has seen this, what were the results?) -- full court press Fisher for an entire game.  Especially the teams that play a lot of guys like Utica and RIT.

They lose a 3 year starter at point and replace him with Mueller, who is a nice shooter but is not half the ball handler SOB was, and a freshman. 

Doesn't Brockport play a press?

They do. They had a lot of success in their first meeting but Fisher was ready for it the second time around and limited their mistakes. Hence, the different results.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 01, 2007, 11:01:36 AM
good guard play can nullify that pretty quickly!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 01, 2007, 11:02:45 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 11:18:30 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on January 31, 2007, 09:20:17 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2007, 07:36:45 PM
I was sure he threw a few in that game. Fisher turned the ball over like four times in that game.
Ithaca won the overtime coin toss and elected to play defense on the first series. The Cardinals gained 16 yards on four plays before sophomore Nick Suchyna (St. Francis/Buffalo) threw his first career interception ? a pass that Struzzi picked off at his own nine and returned 91 yards for the winning score. Suchyna entered game ranked third nationally in passing efficiency and had thrown 107 passes this fall without an interception.


would you like to eat crow now or later

I don't think it has anything to do with "eating crow" trying to recall a game from almost 18 months ago without the aid of looking anything up. Bottom line, your young QB had a two-TD lead in the 2nd half and didn't get the job done; the same way Juvan didn't get it done this year. And, with all due respect, I don't think they asked Suchnya to throw a pass longer than 8 yards that entire game. It was all bubble screens to Noah and hitting the RB's in the flat.

Adam, good to have you aboard. Nobody has a problem with someone being a "homer." It's when they let that favoritism affect the way they think instead of analyzing things objectively. We have a couple of those people in here and I'm sure you already know who they are. You seem to have facts backing up all your arguments and that's all anyone can ask for. That is preferred to those who nitpick and take potshots when they can. Again, good to have you here and it will be nice to hear from a (somewhat) objective Utica fan (though, Clear and UCgrad have been better, relative to last year). However, this Doctor guy is insane.


Just for the record, I would like to consider myself a pretty objective fan of Utica College athletics.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 01, 2007, 11:15:40 AM
for the record. you have been very even keel on tyour posts and articles.

Def not a homer
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 01, 2007, 11:22:29 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 10:46:32 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 01, 2007, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:35:34 AM
One thing that I don't understand, that I haven't seen or heard anyone doing yet (if someone has seen this, what were the results?) -- full court press Fisher for an entire game.  Especially the teams that play a lot of guys like Utica and RIT.

They lose a 3 year starter at point and replace him with Mueller, who is a nice shooter but is not half the ball handler SOB was, and a freshman. 

Doesn't Brockport play a press?

They do. They had a lot of success in their first meeting but Fisher was ready for it the second time around and limited their mistakes. Hence, the different results.

Brockport does indeed.  Good example.  I wasn't at either game, but from the looks of the play by play and box, I don't think it played out like GB15 suggested (I'm pretty sure he wasn't there either  :D ).

In the first matchup Fisher had 22 turnovers.  In the second they had 19.  Not that big of a difference.

What is a big difference is the number of fouls on Brockport.  16 in the first versus 24 in the second.  This affects a lot of the BPort's games given thier high intensity D.  Both games were close.

I'm also guessing Fisher, at least the coaching staff, was prepared for the press each time.  Brockport has been doing it for years.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 11:24:10 AM
Budcrew, I wasn't referring to you. I had kind of forgot about you (sorry) as I haven't been over on the football boards recently, you don't post in here, and you didn't post too often during the football season because of your ATR column. My bad.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 01, 2007, 11:28:59 AM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 11:22:29 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 10:46:32 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 01, 2007, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:35:34 AM
One thing that I don't understand, that I haven't seen or heard anyone doing yet (if someone has seen this, what were the results?) -- full court press Fisher for an entire game.  Especially the teams that play a lot of guys like Utica and RIT.

They lose a 3 year starter at point and replace him with Mueller, who is a nice shooter but is not half the ball handler SOB was, and a freshman. 

Doesn't Brockport play a press?

They do. They had a lot of success in their first meeting but Fisher was ready for it the second time around and limited their mistakes. Hence, the different results.

Brockport does indeed.  Good example.  I wasn't at either game, but from the looks of the play by play and box, I don't think it played out like GB15 suggested (I'm pretty sure he wasn't there either  :D ).

In the first matchup Fisher had 22 turnovers.  In the second they had 19.  Not that big of a difference.

What is a big difference is the number of fouls on Brockport.  16 in the first versus 24 in the second.  This affects a lot of the BPort's games given thier high intensity D.  Both games were close.

I'm also guessing Fisher, at least the coaching staff, was prepared for the press each time.  Brockport has been doing it for years.

+k for research.

now who smited the Chairman?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 01, 2007, 11:29:30 AM
Bamm I have to disagree, Fisher doesn't lose at home often and they have already beaten RIT twice and while both games were within 10 this is a fisher team that I think gets more dangerous as the season goes on.  and I just don't see them losing to naz at home two years in a row...and utica  I think will win the e8 championship over fisher but will have 1 conference loss and that will be at fisher...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 01, 2007, 11:59:09 AM
You're disagreement is welcome, and not exactly shocking. 

I said after watching Fisher early this season a couple of times that they would not win the E8 this year.  I know Fisher has been great at home in the last several years, but you sound like it's impossible for them to lose there.  This year's team is obviously not as good as the last few seasons. 

Brockport has already beaten them there in December.  I think someone else will as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 12:05:40 PM
Actually, there are different types of turnovers, as we all know. The worst kind lead directly to hoops. That is what Fisher limited. They didn't throw the ball away in the backcourt as much this time (at least according the one write-up I saw of the game). A travelling in the frontcourt isn't nearly as harmful as a cross-court pass that gets intercepted and leads to an easy hoop. I think Fisher limited the latter in the second game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 01, 2007, 12:09:34 PM
ok first off someone hates me my karma just dropped 4 points...second it's always possible for anyone to lose any game...the brockport game was the first game of the season....but no excuses...I see the utica game being close but Utica did not overly impress me when I listened to the first game...so I think for that home court will make the difference
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 01, 2007, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 12:05:40 PM
Actually, there are different types of turnovers, as we all know. The worst kind lead directly to hoops. That is what Fisher limited. They didn't throw the ball away in the backcourt as much this time (at least according the one write-up I saw of the game). A travelling in the frontcourt isn't nearly as harmful as a cross-court pass that gets intercepted and leads to an easy hoop. I think Fisher limited the latter in the second game.

Come on, you're actually going to make statements like that about a game you weren't at, didn't watch, and were 1500 miles away from?  The lengths some guys go to defend something they said... it's like you're training to be a lawyer or something...



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 01, 2007, 12:58:51 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 11:24:10 AM
Budcrew, I wasn't referring to you. I had kind of forgot about you (sorry) as I haven't been over on the football boards recently, you don't post in here, and you didn't post too often during the football season because of your ATR column. My bad.

No problem GB15. I just  think it's a great thing that we are starting to get posters from all the conference schools involved on this website.

+K for you.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 01:31:43 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 12:05:40 PM
Actually, there are different types of turnovers, as we all know. The worst kind lead directly to hoops. That is what Fisher limited. They didn't throw the ball away in the backcourt as much this time (at least according the one write-up I saw of the game). A travelling in the frontcourt isn't nearly as harmful as a cross-court pass that gets intercepted and leads to an easy hoop. I think Fisher limited the latter in the second game.

Come on, you're actually going to make statements like that about a game you weren't at, didn't watch, and were 1500 miles away from?  The lengths some guys go to defend something they said... it's like you're training to be a lawyer or something...





Actually, I think that was Kornaker's quote in the D&C. Something to the effect of not giving them easy hoops off their press. I wouldn't presume to make an opinion on the game, otherwise.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 01, 2007, 01:44:10 PM
Jose...I'm not sure who PortGrad04 is but if he did in fact graduate in '04 I probably never did a game with him.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 01, 2007, 01:54:15 PM
Quote from: Adam the Bull on February 01, 2007, 01:44:10 PM
Jose...I'm not sure who PortGrad04 is but if he did in fact graduate in '04 I probably never did a game with him.

He's a regular poster over at E8Nation (The football board), former 'Port radio man, and current teacher in Miami or somewhere near Miami.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 01, 2007, 02:51:40 PM
i give the chair a hell yeah for the E8 Nation!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 04:44:06 PM
Wow, see that an Ithaca alum won that contest to produce the "best Superbowl commercial ever" contest? His commercial will be shown at the two-minute warning of the Superbowl. Man, we Ithacans are just good at everything (notice the tongue-in-cheek sarcasm).

Anyways, here are my predictions for this weekend:

FRIDAY

Utica over Ithaca, 71-53 (see how I picked Utica, UCgrad?)
Hartwick over Elmira, 83-71
Fisher over Naz, 76-69
RIT over Alfred, 70-64 (the more desperate team wins this one...and RIT NEEDS this one to avoid likely being 3-6 after Saturday)

SATURDAY

Ithaca over Hartwick, 69-63 (game scares me because IC hasn't been playing well and we've been awful in Saturday games so far this year)
Utica over Elmira, 81-52
Fisher over RIT, 74-65
Alfred over Naz, 72-67
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 04:57:11 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 09:53:58 AM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 09:28:47 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 01, 2007, 09:20:22 AM
Thought I would check in on the boards with my morning coffee.  I gotta say the Chairman is shocked at the amount of animosity on the E8 hoop boards.  What gives over here boys?  Why do you all hate each other?  FA91, we need to get things in order.

Also, welcome to Adam, hopefully you will hang out on the Football boards next fall as well.  Imagine, three whole Utica posters over there.


Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
I attended SUNY Brockport and broadcasted their games for four seasons, so I have seen plenty of D3 hoops over the past decade.

Did you perchance share the booth and the airwaves with one PortGrad04?

Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
Ithaca....hmmm...I respect the school and the sports programs there...but I often get the feeling when I am there that many of the students and faculty have their noses in the air. I'll leave it at that.

I'll admit to this.  I am snobby about IC athletics.  But that is what happens when you win so consistently.  It is almost unfathomable when we actually lose at something.  Ask the Fisher boys that follow the hoop team, they must have a little taste of that.

Nah, GB just can't take a little friendly ribbing. Especially when he knows a season sweep is coming on friday.

I just wasn't sure what exactly it was that I said about Utica last year that was so off the wall. I gave a early season look into what the team was like, and it was pretty much dead on. Not sure what is up with superman either. Maybe he is worried that UC has found some kryptonite? Dude got all mad because someone from another school dared to not like naz as well.

I think that's wrong. I think you take potshots (unfounded ones, at that) at Ithaca whenever you get the opportunity. I also think you try your damndest to pass off every other E8 team is far inferior to UC when, in fact, Utica and Fisher are probably on the same level (even your own radio guy suggested as much!). I just come back at you with facts and point out flaws in your argument (see citing the 2003-04 E8 title game instead of last year's...which is more relevant?). That's all. I can take any amount of ribbing.


Care to enlighten me with some examples? Were you going to say the one from yesterday with the winking smiley?

As far as "flaws", in the context of the discussion, I was talking about how you can't use past seasons success at home to say that the same will hold true this year. I was also pointing out that in that season, Utica was not even close to the talent level as it is this year (and fisher was much better than they are this year) and it was still a close game. The point was, to suggest that playing at home will suddenly make you an automatic favorite to a team that has already beaten you is silly, especially when your argument is on past seasons success there. So yes, that was relevant. I was not making any statement about the current group of players, just saying that the home court thing is very overhyped.

BTW, I just said very kind words about your assistant coach and how he was a great pick up (Nevada), but yeah, I'm taking "potshots".

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 05:03:47 PM
Or maybe it was about 3 weeks ago when I was talking about how good Bellis was.....

Man, I sure do trash ithaca a lot. Almost as much as I claim Utica is the best team in the nation bar none and they should just crown them now instead of playing the tournament.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 05:04:40 PM
As much as I'd like to continue this back-and-forth, I think, for the good of the board, I'll refrain.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 01, 2007, 05:15:03 PM
GB15 see I like seeing the banter go back and forth...it's kind of funny...So fisher-naz is sold out.... The half of me that would like to see everyone be able to go to game says they should move this game to a larger venue... I think you could get a great crowd at Blue Cross... but the other part of me loves thee game being in they gym's because it is LOUD and one of the best sporting experiances I've ever been to
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on February 01, 2007, 06:32:52 PM
Jose (I mean the Chairman) said he wanted my involvement on these boards, so here I am. Hmmm... I don't really have much to say... oh, one thing is that the commercial the kid from IC pitched sucks balls, and is so original I think I've seen one just like it in like the last seven super bowls... but that's the Park School for you. (No offense to the chairman, GB, or any other parkie alum that this obviously doesn't apply to. Make your "max power was a music student" jokes any time now.)

FD, get real about Fisher taking football away from Ithaca. Ithaca has been the king at football since saying "get real" was cool. Fisher is a better team right now, and by right now I mean while Robinson has still technically not graduated. That being said, IC graduates some hella good defensive players, but I'm just now realizing this is not a topic for this board, which is probably why I don't post here very much. As far as all around sports, do I need to pull out the Director's cup standings from the last 10 years? Do I really need to?

(OK you can stop with the music student jokes now. Seriously. I take it back.)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 01, 2007, 06:37:01 PM
Quote from: maxpower on February 01, 2007, 06:32:52 PM
Jose (I mean the Chairman) said he wanted my involvement on these boards, so here I am. Hmmm... I don't really have much to say... oh, one thing is that the commercial the kid from IC pitched sucks balls, and is so original I think I've seen one just like it in like the last seven super bowls... but that's the Park School for you. (No offense to the chairman, GB, or any other parkie alum that this obviously doesn't apply to. Make your "max power was a music student" jokes any time now.)

FD, get real about Fisher taking football away from Ithaca. Ithaca has been the king at football since saying "get real" was cool. Fisher is a better team right now, and by right now I mean while Robinson has still technically not graduated. That being said, IC graduates some hella good defensive players, but I'm just now realizing this is not a topic for this board, which is probably why I don't post here very much. As far as all around sports, do I need to pull out the Director's cup standings from the last 10 years? Do I really need to?

(OK you can stop with the music student jokes now. Seriously. I take it back.)

Between the comments and the treeemendous signature, that might win the "Obnoxious Post of the Year" award (and believe me, with the Fisher guys, it's got competition).

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 01, 2007, 07:24:50 PM
Busy day at work so I did not have a chance to check the boards. Wow... lot of animosity on here recently.

It is good to see the bull on the board. I have listened to his calls of games in the past I think he can be a nice addition to the conversation.

On to this weekend. I think it is a big weekend for most of the top teams in tourny contention. I like Fisher to sweep two very close games this weekend. I think they will beat Naz by about 10, I just don't think they will start as slow as they did last time the two teams played, and they will pull away late. On Saturday I think they can sneak a game RIT team. I will take them by 2 late. RIT has proven it can play with Fisher and I think they will play well, but come up short.

I think Alfred will split the weekend. My guess is they will lose to RIT and beat Naz, but I think it could go either way this weekend.

I will take UC to sweep the weekend, but I think the game against IC will be very close. I think IC will adjust and make some plays in the game, but UC will have the horses to keep them unbeaten in the conference.

Should be a big week for the teams in the hunt. We may have a real cloudy race for 2-4 seeds after the weekend, but I think who will make their way to the tourny will be a little more clear.

Any other predictions?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 07:41:17 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 05:04:40 PM
As much as I'd like to continue this back-and-forth, I think, for the good of the board, I'll refrain.


  That's like the guy that hides behind someone else and says your lucky he's holding me back.   ;)

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 07:43:01 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:18:25 AM
Adam, I caught your work on the Utica/Fisher game a couple of weeks ago.  I thought you did a nice job.  It sounded like there was a decent crowd there as well.  There's no arguing you're a homer (as is your color guy), but I don't think anyone tuning in to a division III Utica College basketball contest expects anything else.

I'd disagree. With Utica in the national picture there will be more than just Utica fans following games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 07:43:32 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on February 01, 2007, 07:24:50 PM
Busy day at work so I did not have a chance to check the boards. Wow... lot of animosity on here recently.

It is good to see the bull on the board. I have listened to his calls of games in the past I think he can be a nice addition to the conversation.

On to this weekend. I think it is a big weekend for most of the top teams in tourny contention. I like Fisher to sweep two very close games this weekend. I think they will beat Naz by about 10, I just don't think they will start as slow as they did last time the two teams played, and they will pull away late. On Saturday I think they can sneak a game RIT team. I will take them by 2 late. RIT has proven it can play with Fisher and I think they will play well, but come up short.

I think Alfred will split the weekend. My guess is they will lose to RIT and beat Naz, but I think it could go either way this weekend.

I will take UC to sweep the weekend, but I think the game against IC will be very close. I think IC will adjust and make some plays in the game, but UC will have the horses to keep them unbeaten in the conference.

Should be a big week for the teams in the hunt. We may have a real cloudy race for 2-4 seeds after the weekend, but I think who will make their way to the tourny will be a little more clear.

Any other predictions?


2-4 looks as if it is going to be crazy. Might come down to some of the nutty tie breakers.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 07:46:10 PM
Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
I have been a long time reader of the D3 Hoops message boards but until now have chosen not to participate. The reason....I am the play by play man for the Utica Pioneers and during Tuesday night's men's victory over Hartwick I mentioned the Player of the Year debate taking place on this message board...so I figured it was time to chime in. This is my fourth season with Utica College and before that I attended SUNY Brockport and broadcasted their games for four seasons, so I have seen plenty of D3 hoops over the past decade. I say this not to brag or to claim that I know more then anyone else here...just to let you all know where I am coming from. I have enjoyed the many debates that I have seen in this thread and the trash talking as well.

I plan on now becoming an active member of the board and if you guys are interested I can give an analysis of the games I call (or not if no one cares what I have to say). For those who have not heard my broadcasts, I will admit...I am a homer....but even though it is obvious who I am rooting for on the air I believe I always make fair comments when it comes to the game action....and don't just always say it is a bad call when the Pioneers get called for fouls.

Just wanted to check in on a few subjects for now...

1-Player of the Year- To tough to call right now. Because it is Player of the Year and not MVP I would not discount Jan Cocozziello just because his team is not in the mix. However, I would lean towards either Ray Bryant or Doug Herring (I know, I know...what a homer) but honestly they have to be the favorites. I have thought long and hard about which of the two I would put first and for now I think it is dead even (lame answer I know). I think the last 6-games will break the tie.

2-Toughest Home court-There is no debate it is St. John Fisher...I get nervous walking in there and I don't even play. When school is in session that gym is an almost impossible place for a visiting team to pick up a victory. By the way according to St. John Fisher S.I.D Norm Kieffer, I have called more Cardinal games (Football, Men's Hoops, and Women's Hoops) then any other opposing broadcaster.

3-Best Sports Programs-I hate to say it but the answer is Ithaca. They dominate or at least in the mix in almost every sport.

4-Hatred of St. John Fisher and Ithaca-As a Brockport Alum...I actually hate SUNY Cortland more then any other college. I don't hate Fisher at all (although I am not thrilled with Football Coach Paul Vosburgh...who I believe has ran it up on UC in the past). Ithaca....hmmm...I respect the school and the sports programs there...but I often get the feeling when I am there that many of the students and faculty have their noses in the air. I'll leave it at that.

5-UC lucking into Ray Bryant and Tim Troy-While I agree the Pioneers were very lucky to have both of those excellent player...they made there own luck because of Coach Goodemote. Had he not been the coach both of those players likely never lace it up for the Pioneers.

6-This years Pioneers-vs.-last years Pioneers-While the losses of Justin Cichon
and Willie Lucas were big I do not believe last year's team was better. Right now I would have to say this year's squad is slightly better. I think they are slightly weaker from the perimeter but much better in the paint and defensively. I believe conference wins no matter what the margin are quality especially on the road. However, the Pioneers do have more to prove before we call them a juggernaut.

In closing (man have I babbled on for a long time) let me just say it is hard to break down a team when you have only seen them play one time this year...which many of you and I have done so far. To say the Pioneers are not that good based on their one game with Fisher (in which they were weak offensively....mostly because of great Fisher Def) but great defensively would be an injustice. Ithaca was terrible in their game versus the Pioneers but I won't condemn them off that one game (although I probably did to my friends later that day).

If I missed some topics I'm sure I will get to it at another time. Let the attacks begin!


Welcome. That guy that hooks you up with the starting lineups circled on the program before games is the man.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 08:02:07 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 06:37:01 PM
Quote from: maxpower on February 01, 2007, 06:32:52 PM
Jose (I mean the Chairman) said he wanted my involvement on these boards, so here I am. Hmmm... I don't really have much to say... oh, one thing is that the commercial the kid from IC pitched sucks balls, and is so original I think I've seen one just like it in like the last seven super bowls... but that's the Park School for you. (No offense to the chairman, GB, or any other parkie alum that this obviously doesn't apply to. Make your "max power was a music student" jokes any time now.)

FD, get real about Fisher taking football away from Ithaca. Ithaca has been the king at football since saying "get real" was cool. Fisher is a better team right now, and by right now I mean while Robinson has still technically not graduated. That being said, IC graduates some hella good defensive players, but I'm just now realizing this is not a topic for this board, which is probably why I don't post here very much. As far as all around sports, do I need to pull out the Director's cup standings from the last 10 years? Do I really need to?

(OK you can stop with the music student jokes now. Seriously. I take it back.)

Between the comments and the treeemendous signature, that might win the "Obnoxious Post of the Year" award (and believe me, with the Fisher guys, it's got competition).



Bamm, I thought that was a pretty funny post by Max. The signature is quality, too.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 01, 2007, 08:10:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 07:43:01 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:18:25 AM
Adam, I caught your work on the Utica/Fisher game a couple of weeks ago.  I thought you did a nice job.  It sounded like there was a decent crowd there as well.  There's no arguing you're a homer (as is your color guy), but I don't think anyone tuning in to a division III Utica College basketball contest expects anything else.

I'd disagree. With Utica in the national picture there will be more than just Utica fans following games.

I am the broadcaster for Utica College....so my loyalties are to that school and those fans....but as I said despite my rooting interest...I always call the game as I see it...so the broadcast should be enjoyable for all listeners (at least if there team is winning).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 08:13:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 07:43:01 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:18:25 AM
Adam, I caught your work on the Utica/Fisher game a couple of weeks ago.  I thought you did a nice job.  It sounded like there was a decent crowd there as well.  There's no arguing you're a homer (as is your color guy), but I don't think anyone tuning in to a division III Utica College basketball contest expects anything else.

I'd disagree. With Utica in the national picture there will be more than just Utica fans following games.

Pat, reread Bamm's post. I think what he's saying is that everybody who tunes into a D3 hoops game expects the local broadcasters to be homers. Not that Utica will not generate any interest on the national scene.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 08:22:07 PM
Quote from: Adam the Bull on February 01, 2007, 08:10:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 07:43:01 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:18:25 AM
Adam, I caught your work on the Utica/Fisher game a couple of weeks ago.  I thought you did a nice job.  It sounded like there was a decent crowd there as well.  There's no arguing you're a homer (as is your color guy), but I don't think anyone tuning in to a division III Utica College basketball contest expects anything else.

I'd disagree. With Utica in the national picture there will be more than just Utica fans following games.

I am the broadcaster for Utica College....so my loyalties are to that school and those fans....but as I said despite my rooting interest...I always call the game as I see it...so the broadcast should be enjoyable for all listeners (at least if there team is winning).


Adam even tells us when there was a bad call that helped Utica. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 01, 2007, 08:40:15 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 07:46:10 PM
Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
I have been a long time reader of the D3 Hoops message boards but until now have chosen not to participate. The reason....I am the play by play man for the Utica Pioneers and during Tuesday night's men's victory over Hartwick I mentioned the Player of the Year debate taking place on this message board...so I figured it was time to chime in. This is my fourth season with Utica College and before that I attended SUNY Brockport and broadcasted their games for four seasons, so I have seen plenty of D3 hoops over the past decade. I say this not to brag or to claim that I know more then anyone else here...just to let you all know where I am coming from. I have enjoyed the many debates that I have seen in this thread and the trash talking as well.

I plan on now becoming an active member of the board and if you guys are interested I can give an analysis of the games I call (or not if no one cares what I have to say). For those who have not heard my broadcasts, I will admit...I am a homer....but even though it is obvious who I am rooting for on the air I believe I always make fair comments when it comes to the game action....and don't just always say it is a bad call when the Pioneers get called for fouls.

Just wanted to check in on a few subjects for now...

1-Player of the Year- To tough to call right now. Because it is Player of the Year and not MVP I would not discount Jan Cocozziello just because his team is not in the mix. However, I would lean towards either Ray Bryant or Doug Herring (I know, I know...what a homer) but honestly they have to be the favorites. I have thought long and hard about which of the two I would put first and for now I think it is dead even (lame answer I know). I think the last 6-games will break the tie.

2-Toughest Home court-There is no debate it is St. John Fisher...I get nervous walking in there and I don't even play. When school is in session that gym is an almost impossible place for a visiting team to pick up a victory. By the way according to St. John Fisher S.I.D Norm Kieffer, I have called more Cardinal games (Football, Men's Hoops, and Women's Hoops) then any other opposing broadcaster.

3-Best Sports Programs-I hate to say it but the answer is Ithaca. They dominate or at least in the mix in almost every sport.

4-Hatred of St. John Fisher and Ithaca-As a Brockport Alum...I actually hate SUNY Cortland more then any other college. I don't hate Fisher at all (although I am not thrilled with Football Coach Paul Vosburgh...who I believe has ran it up on UC in the past). Ithaca....hmmm...I respect the school and the sports programs there...but I often get the feeling when I am there that many of the students and faculty have their noses in the air. I'll leave it at that.

5-UC lucking into Ray Bryant and Tim Troy-While I agree the Pioneers were very lucky to have both of those excellent player...they made there own luck because of Coach Goodemote. Had he not been the coach both of those players likely never lace it up for the Pioneers.

6-This years Pioneers-vs.-last years Pioneers-While the losses of Justin Cichon
and Willie Lucas were big I do not believe last year's team was better. Right now I would have to say this year's squad is slightly better. I think they are slightly weaker from the perimeter but much better in the paint and defensively. I believe conference wins no matter what the margin are quality especially on the road. However, the Pioneers do have more to prove before we call them a juggernaut.

In closing (man have I babbled on for a long time) let me just say it is hard to break down a team when you have only seen them play one time this year...which many of you and I have done so far. To say the Pioneers are not that good based on their one game with Fisher (in which they were weak offensively....mostly because of great Fisher Def) but great defensively would be an injustice. Ithaca was terrible in their game versus the Pioneers but I won't condemn them off that one game (although I probably did to my friends later that day).

If I missed some topics I'm sure I will get to it at another time. Let the attacks begin!


Welcome. That guy that hooks you up with the starting lineups circled on the program before games is the man.

Except when he fails to show up for road games...because his wife is supposedly having a baby...lol.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 08:41:14 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 08:13:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 07:43:01 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:18:25 AM
Adam, I caught your work on the Utica/Fisher game a couple of weeks ago.  I thought you did a nice job.  It sounded like there was a decent crowd there as well.  There's no arguing you're a homer (as is your color guy), but I don't think anyone tuning in to a division III Utica College basketball contest expects anything else.

I'd disagree. With Utica in the national picture there will be more than just Utica fans following games.

Pat, reread Bamm's post. I think what he's saying is that everybody who tunes into a D3 hoops game expects the local broadcasters to be homers. Not that Utica will not generate any interest on the national scene.

I read it, thanks. I am saying we should expect better than blatant homerism. There are many quality local D-III basketball broadcasters who are not homers -- one who does games in your own conference. (JC DeLass comes to mind immediately.)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Adam the Bull on February 01, 2007, 08:40:15 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 07:46:10 PM
Quote from: Adam the Bull on January 31, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
I have been a long time reader of the D3 Hoops message boards but until now have chosen not to participate. The reason....I am the play by play man for the Utica Pioneers and during Tuesday night's men's victory over Hartwick I mentioned the Player of the Year debate taking place on this message board...so I figured it was time to chime in. This is my fourth season with Utica College and before that I attended SUNY Brockport and broadcasted their games for four seasons, so I have seen plenty of D3 hoops over the past decade. I say this not to brag or to claim that I know more then anyone else here...just to let you all know where I am coming from. I have enjoyed the many debates that I have seen in this thread and the trash talking as well.

I plan on now becoming an active member of the board and if you guys are interested I can give an analysis of the games I call (or not if no one cares what I have to say). For those who have not heard my broadcasts, I will admit...I am a homer....but even though it is obvious who I am rooting for on the air I believe I always make fair comments when it comes to the game action....and don't just always say it is a bad call when the Pioneers get called for fouls.

Just wanted to check in on a few subjects for now...

1-Player of the Year- To tough to call right now. Because it is Player of the Year and not MVP I would not discount Jan Cocozziello just because his team is not in the mix. However, I would lean towards either Ray Bryant or Doug Herring (I know, I know...what a homer) but honestly they have to be the favorites. I have thought long and hard about which of the two I would put first and for now I think it is dead even (lame answer I know). I think the last 6-games will break the tie.

2-Toughest Home court-There is no debate it is St. John Fisher...I get nervous walking in there and I don't even play. When school is in session that gym is an almost impossible place for a visiting team to pick up a victory. By the way according to St. John Fisher S.I.D Norm Kieffer, I have called more Cardinal games (Football, Men's Hoops, and Women's Hoops) then any other opposing broadcaster.

3-Best Sports Programs-I hate to say it but the answer is Ithaca. They dominate or at least in the mix in almost every sport.

4-Hatred of St. John Fisher and Ithaca-As a Brockport Alum...I actually hate SUNY Cortland more then any other college. I don't hate Fisher at all (although I am not thrilled with Football Coach Paul Vosburgh...who I believe has ran it up on UC in the past). Ithaca....hmmm...I respect the school and the sports programs there...but I often get the feeling when I am there that many of the students and faculty have their noses in the air. I'll leave it at that.

5-UC lucking into Ray Bryant and Tim Troy-While I agree the Pioneers were very lucky to have both of those excellent player...they made there own luck because of Coach Goodemote. Had he not been the coach both of those players likely never lace it up for the Pioneers.

6-This years Pioneers-vs.-last years Pioneers-While the losses of Justin Cichon
and Willie Lucas were big I do not believe last year's team was better. Right now I would have to say this year's squad is slightly better. I think they are slightly weaker from the perimeter but much better in the paint and defensively. I believe conference wins no matter what the margin are quality especially on the road. However, the Pioneers do have more to prove before we call them a juggernaut.

In closing (man have I babbled on for a long time) let me just say it is hard to break down a team when you have only seen them play one time this year...which many of you and I have done so far. To say the Pioneers are not that good based on their one game with Fisher (in which they were weak offensively....mostly because of great Fisher Def) but great defensively would be an injustice. Ithaca was terrible in their game versus the Pioneers but I won't condemn them off that one game (although I probably did to my friends later that day).

If I missed some topics I'm sure I will get to it at another time. Let the attacks begin!


Welcome. That guy that hooks you up with the starting lineups circled on the program before games is the man.

Except when he fails to show up for road games...because his wife is supposedly having a baby...lol.


I heard that he won't be able to go the home games this weekend because she could go any day now.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 01, 2007, 08:50:40 PM



I heard that he won't be able to go the home games this weekend because she could go any day now.
[/quote]

Great news...good luck to him.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 08:41:14 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 08:13:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 07:43:01 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:18:25 AM
Adam, I caught your work on the Utica/Fisher game a couple of weeks ago.  I thought you did a nice job.  It sounded like there was a decent crowd there as well.  There's no arguing you're a homer (as is your color guy), but I don't think anyone tuning in to a division III Utica College basketball contest expects anything else.

I'd disagree. With Utica in the national picture there will be more than just Utica fans following games.

Pat, reread Bamm's post. I think what he's saying is that everybody who tunes into a D3 hoops game expects the local broadcasters to be homers. Not that Utica will not generate any interest on the national scene.

I read it, thanks. I am saying we should expect better than blatant homerism. There are many quality local D-III basketball broadcasters who are not homers -- one who does games in your own conference. (JC DeLass comes to mind immediately.)

I agree...JC is very good....We have different styles...it would be boring if we all called games the same way. I get no complaints from my target audience.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:02:16 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 08:41:14 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 01, 2007, 08:13:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 07:43:01 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 01, 2007, 10:18:25 AM
Adam, I caught your work on the Utica/Fisher game a couple of weeks ago.  I thought you did a nice job.  It sounded like there was a decent crowd there as well.  There's no arguing you're a homer (as is your color guy), but I don't think anyone tuning in to a division III Utica College basketball contest expects anything else.

I'd disagree. With Utica in the national picture there will be more than just Utica fans following games.

Pat, reread Bamm's post. I think what he's saying is that everybody who tunes into a D3 hoops game expects the local broadcasters to be homers. Not that Utica will not generate any interest on the national scene.

I read it, thanks. I am saying we should expect better than blatant homerism. There are many quality local D-III basketball broadcasters who are not homers -- one who does games in your own conference. (JC DeLass comes to mind immediately.)

I see where you're coming from, Pat.  My point is that no one should be surprised if the guy calling the game for local Utica radio has a bit of a bias.  When I can't turn into a Braves or Yankees national broadcast without getting the same thing, I'm not going to damn Utica College.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 01, 2007, 10:11:59 PM
There is usually a little home town flavor at the division III level. I think JC Delass is a quality broadcaster, but the bull does pretty well.

I can tell he is pulling for UC, but it is not to the point where I want to turn the radio off. At times if feels like I have a friend to argue with while I listen to the game

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 11:49:39 PM
Can you believe that Coach Goodemote got another older guy with eligibility?

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6429134?MSNHPHMA (http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6429134?MSNHPHMA)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2007, 11:53:46 PM
I can't decide which will be the closer score, hartwick vs. elmira or fisher vs. naz.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 12:08:27 AM
utica-ithaca
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 12:12:26 AM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nothingimportantto.us%2Fblogextras%2Fkozo.jpg&hash=ddc1a866525a1f44218d4990d8dd3fe99aed2ccd)

Utica's next star player (Ray Bryant's younger brother)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 12:16:45 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 02, 2007, 12:08:27 AM
utica-ithaca

Should be around a 15 point difference.

Seriously, fisher naz seems to always be close just because they hate each other so much. Hartwick and Elmira both have a long way to go... While the quality of game will be far apart, I bet both games will be close.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 02, 2007, 10:39:31 AM
From what I saw the other night, Hartwick should win.  But they did lose Carson ate in the game and if he is out that defintiely hurts them.

predictions
Fisher
Hartwick
Alfred
and of course US as we continue on our destination of perfection.

Saturday
Fisher
Alfred
Ithaca
Um well.... we are number 1!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: postup101 on February 02, 2007, 10:46:36 AM
WEEKEND PREDICTIONS

E8 STANDINGS TO DATE

1. UTICA (8-0) (1.00)
2. FISHER (5-2) (.714)
3  ITHACA (4-3) (.571)
    ALFRED (4-3) (.571)
5. RIT        (3-4) (.429)
    NAZ      (3-4) (.429)
7. ELMIRA (1-6) (.143)
8. HARTWICK (1-7) (.125)


TONIGHTS GAMES:

ITHACA @ UTICA (UTICA WIN)
RIT @ ALFRED (ALFRED WIN)
NAZ@ FISHER (FISHER WIN)
ELMIRA @ HARTWICK (HARTWICK WIN)

TOMORROW AFTERNOON

ELMIRA @ UTICA (UTICA WIN)
NAZ @ ALFRED (NAZ WIN)
RIT @ FISHER (FISHER WIN)
ITHACA @ HARTWICK (HARTWICK WIN)

STANDING AFTER WEEKEND ACTION

1. UTICA (10-0) (1.00%)
2. FISHER (7-2) (.778%)
3. ALFRED (5-4) (.556%)
4. ITHACA (4-5) (.444%)
    NAZ      (4-5) (.444%)
6. RIT       (3-6) (.333%)
7. HARTWICK (3-7) (.300%)
8. ELMIRA (1-8) (.111%)

MORE LATER....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Maximuh on February 02, 2007, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: postup101 on February 02, 2007, 10:46:36 AM
WEEKEND PREDICTIONS

E8 STANDINGS TO DATE

1. UTICA (8-0) (1.00)
2. FISHER (5-2) (.714)
3  ITHACA (4-3) (.571)
    ALFRED (4-3) (.571)
5. RIT        (3-4) (.429)
    NAZ      (3-4) (.429)
7. ELMIRA (1-6) (.143)
8. HARTWICK (1-7) (.125)


TONIGHTS GAMES:

ITHACA @ UTICA (UTICA WIN)
RIT @ ALFRED (ALFRED WIN)
NAZ@ FISHER (FISHER WIN)
ELMIRA @ HARTWICK (HARTWICK WIN)

TOMORROW AFTERNOON

ELMIRA @ UTICA (UTICA WIN)
NAZ @ ALFRED (NAZ WIN)
RIT @ FISHER (FISHER WIN)
ITHACA @ HARTWICK (HARTWICK WIN)

STANDING AFTER WEEKEND ACTION

1. UTICA (10-0) (1.00%)
2. FISHER (7-2) (.778%)
3. ALFRED (5-4) (.556%)
4. ITHACA (4-5) (.444%)
    NAZ      (4-5) (.444%)
6. RIT       (3-6) (.333%)
7. HARTWICK (3-7) (.300%)
8. ELMIRA (1-8) (.111%)

MORE LATER....


So easy a caveman could do it
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 02, 2007, 03:05:39 PM
Quote from: postup101 on February 02, 2007, 10:46:36 AM
WEEKEND PREDICTIONS

E8 STANDINGS TO DATE

1. UTICA (8-0) (1.00)
2. FISHER (5-2) (.714)
3  ITHACA (4-3) (.571)
    ALFRED (4-3) (.571)
5. RIT        (3-4) (.429)
    NAZ      (3-4) (.429)
7. ELMIRA (1-6) (.143)
8. HARTWICK (1-7) (.125)


TONIGHTS GAMES:

ITHACA @ UTICA (UTICA WIN)
RIT @ ALFRED (ALFRED WIN)
NAZ@ FISHER (FISHER WIN)
ELMIRA @ HARTWICK (HARTWICK WIN)

TOMORROW AFTERNOON

ELMIRA @ UTICA (UTICA WIN)
NAZ @ ALFRED (NAZ WIN)
RIT @ FISHER (FISHER WIN)
ITHACA @ HARTWICK (HARTWICK WIN)

STANDING AFTER WEEKEND ACTION

1. UTICA (10-0) (1.00%)
2. FISHER (7-2) (.778%)
3. ALFRED (5-4) (.556%)
4. ITHACA (4-5) (.444%)
    NAZ      (4-5) (.444%)
6. RIT       (3-6) (.333%)
7. HARTWICK (3-7) (.300%)
8. ELMIRA (1-8) (.111%)

MORE LATER....

I can't wait to hear more — I'm looking forward to some "entertaining" and "insightful" commentary.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 04:11:56 PM
I think if hartwick beats ithaca all the ithaca guys should bombard the Ithaca AD with hate mail for the head coach...and get him fired cuz if you lost to lowly hartwick or elmira then well you suck
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 02, 2007, 05:14:44 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 02, 2007, 04:11:56 PM
I think if hartwick beats ithaca all the ithaca guys should bombard the Ithaca AD with hate mail for the head coach...and get him fired cuz if you lost to lowly hartwick or elmira then well you suck

No argument here.  IC did actually manage to lose at Hartwick two or three years ago, and yes, it was as mortifying as getting your ass kicked by a seven year-old girl.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 06:22:06 PM
I've already purchased the URL for www.firejimmullins.com if they lose.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:21:56 PM
In a bit of a surprise, Ithaca leads Utica by 12 at the half, 37-25. I have a feeling, however, the Pioneers will make a game out of this one before it's over. Call it a hunch.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:30:26 PM
Fisher and Naz locked at 57, 5 mins remaining.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:31:18 PM
Last I heard with less than 3 to go UC was up by 1.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:34:55 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:31:18 PM
Last I heard with less than 3 to go UC was up by 1.

Yeah, I was just going by what D3hoops.com's scoreboard was saying. I'm sure they'll update once it goes final. I'm surprised it's that close. Makes me wonder why IC can't bring that type of effort every night.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:36:16 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:34:55 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:31:18 PM
Last I heard with less than 3 to go UC was up by 1.

Yeah, I was just going by what D3hoops.com's scoreboard was saying. I'm sure they'll update once it goes final. I'm surprised it's that close. Makes me wonder why IC can't bring that type of effort every night.

I hate waiting when I am not at the game (which isn't very often)! I called someone who is there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:38:13 PM
If UC loses, you'll be able to convince your wife you can't miss too many more games, at least. You'll have that going for you...which is nice.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:40:13 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:38:13 PM
If UC loses, you'll be able to convince your wife you can't miss too many more games, at least. You'll have that going for you...which is nice.

Never thought of it that way. I'd rather have the win. I'm going to call soon if I don't get called first.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:41:14 PM
Utica down 2 with 9.8 seconds left.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:42:22 PM
Turnover. Utica gets the ball with just over 7 seconds left.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:44:27 PM
Bryant ties it with 1 second left.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 09:45:21 PM
fisher by 5 30 seconds left
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:47:09 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:44:27 PM
Bryant ties it with 1 second left.

That's probably the ballgame. I don't see IC winning it in OT. We'll probably end up losing by like 9.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:49:58 PM
UCgrad, any updates from OT?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 09:50:21 PM
no last second heroics from naz fisher by 8 with 4 seconds left
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:51:38 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:47:09 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:44:27 PM
Bryant ties it with 1 second left.

That's probably the ballgame. I don't see IC winning it in OT. We'll probably end up losing by like 9.

Either way, they definately played a great game. I have to give them props regardless of the outcome.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:52:26 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:49:58 PM
UCgrad, any updates from OT?

Utica leads by 1 with a minute to go.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:53:23 PM
Utica leads by 1 with 20 seconds left. Utica needs a big stop here.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 09:53:43 PM
LETS GO ITHACA
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:55:10 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:51:38 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:47:09 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:44:27 PM
Bryant ties it with 1 second left.

That's probably the ballgame. I don't see IC winning it in OT. We'll probably end up losing by like 9.

Either way, they definately played a great game. I have to give them props regardless of the outcome.

The variance between Ithaca's "best game" and their "worst game" is unreal. They get run out of the gym in Ithaca against the Pioneers and now, tonight, they take them to the limit in Utica, a place where Ithaca has historically struggled. I hate rooting for this team. It's like reachingi into a bag of drugs and not knowing if you're gonna get an upper or a downer.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 09:55:42 PM
Utica down by 1 with 5 seconds left.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 09:56:11 PM
COME ON ITHACA!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:56:47 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 02, 2007, 09:56:11 PM
COME ON ITHACA!!!!!!!

Who hits the winner? Bryant or Herring? I say Bryant.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 09:57:15 PM
ok I think something is up with the fisher naz game-it's been at four seconds for a long time...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:58:00 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 02, 2007, 09:57:15 PM
ok I think something is up with the fisher naz game-it's been at four seconds for a long time...

Bench-clearing brawl, perhaps?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 09:58:25 PM
how bad would that be....again
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 09:59:46 PM
I'm just waiting for the bad news about the Bombers...give it to us, UCgrad. It's like bracing for a kick to the groin.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:01:16 PM
ithaca wins by 2.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:02:09 PM
Sorry it took so long, lots of confusion at the end of the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:02:37 PM
Whats up with the arch rivals game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 10:03:33 PM
no fight...they forgot to update the page fisher wins 69-61
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 10:04:35 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:02:37 PM
Whats up with the arch rivals game?

Fisher won. It was 69-61 with 4 seconds left. The live stats thing never went final, but Fisher did win. Naz blows 8-point lead in 2nd half and doesn't hit a FG over final 5 1/2 minutes. The innovative ways that team finds to lose games is astonishing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:04:58 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 02, 2007, 10:03:33 PM
no fight...they forgot to update the page fisher wins 69-61

Well the no fight part was good.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 10:05:57 PM
g-d bless the bombers...now lose everygame for the rest of the season

5 dollars that Ithaca loses to the wick tommorow
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 10:08:26 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:01:16 PM
ithaca wins by 2.

No gloating because Utica is still the best team in the conference. Gutsy performance by the Bombers coming off the thrashing at Fisher and the loss to O-State. A lot of character to take a dagger like Bryant's shot with 1 second remaining and regulation and still come out strong in OT. I'd say the team that has that happen to them usually loses about 80% of the time in OT. Good win, hopefully this will help Ithaca turn the corner.

If IC loses to Hartwick, this win means nothing. According to Postup, there's a 55% chance that IC will lose to Hartwick, so who knows. Looking WAY down the road, this loss may hurt Utica in a tiebreaker with Fisher if that ends up taking place.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 02, 2007, 10:09:32 PM
yeah that often happens with livestats, it's just the inputter forgetting to set the clock to 0:00 before saving and exiting to do his/her wrapup stuff.

Needless to say, great win for the Bombers.  GB15 and I were thinkin alike, waiting for the stomach punch at the end that thankfully did not arrive tonight.  Now I'm almost leery of the Hartwick game tomorrow (ok, not really, but you get the point).  Lord willing I'll never quote Nickelback again, but "something's gotta go wrong cuz I'm feeling way too damn good."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 10:10:12 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 02, 2007, 10:05:57 PM
g-d bless the bombers...now lose everygame for the rest of the season

5 dollars that Ithaca loses to the wick tommorow


If you look at it, Ithaca is 100x better in their Friday night games than they are in their Saturday games. The disparities are ridiculous. We had a nice road win against a streaking Alfred team last Friday and then got wrecked at Fisher. I have a feeling the Hartwick game is going to be tight for awhile.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:10:52 PM
Hartwick killed elmira. Rit over Alfred.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:12:09 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 10:08:26 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:01:16 PM
ithaca wins by 2.

No gloating because Utica is still the best team in the conference. Gutsy performance by the Bombers coming off the thrashing at Fisher and the loss to O-State. A lot of character to take a dagger like Bryant's shot with 1 second remaining and regulation and still come out strong in OT. I'd say the team that has that happen to them usually loses about 80% of the time in OT. Good win, hopefully this will help Ithaca turn the corner.

If IC loses to Hartwick, this win means nothing. According to Postup, there's a 55% chance that IC will lose to Hartwick, so who knows. Looking WAY down the road, this loss may hurt Utica in a tiebreaker with Fisher if that ends up taking place.

I can't remember how it goes, but I think if Utica lost at fisher and both teams won out, at this point UC would get the tie breaker as Ithaca is ranked aboved alfred in conference.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:13:26 PM
I am shocked by hartwick winning by 20 tonight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 10:13:45 PM
RIT needed that one tonight, especially considering the Ithaca win. If the Tigers don't take Alfred tonight, they're likely looking at 3-6 after tomorrow. If that was the case, RIT's chances to make the E8 tournament would have been slim, at best.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:14:50 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 10:13:45 PM
RIT needed that one tonight, especially considering the Ithaca win. If the Tigers don't take Alfred tonight, they're likely looking at 3-6 after tomorrow. If that was the case, RIT's chances to make the E8 tournament would have been slim, at best.

Those last two spots are going to be nuts. Some crazy games the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 10:15:06 PM
ok this tie-breaker situation could get really intresting if fisher is able to go without losing for the rest of the season.....that's a big if....


well I think some of the overzelous utica fans need to come on here and admitt they were wrong, not only did utica lose their second game of the second half of the season but it wasn't even against the second best team in the league...Utica is a good team not a great team...Great teams put away average teams at home in OT...and it's not the first time utica
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 10:16:56 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:12:09 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 10:08:26 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:01:16 PM
ithaca wins by 2.

No gloating because Utica is still the best team in the conference. Gutsy performance by the Bombers coming off the thrashing at Fisher and the loss to O-State. A lot of character to take a dagger like Bryant's shot with 1 second remaining and regulation and still come out strong in OT. I'd say the team that has that happen to them usually loses about 80% of the time in OT. Good win, hopefully this will help Ithaca turn the corner.

If IC loses to Hartwick, this win means nothing. According to Postup, there's a 55% chance that IC will lose to Hartwick, so who knows. Looking WAY down the road, this loss may hurt Utica in a tiebreaker with Fisher if that ends up taking place.

I can't remember how it goes, but I think if Utica lost at fisher and both teams won out, at this point UC would get the tie breaker as Ithaca is ranked aboved alfred in conference.

Yeah, I posted that before I knew the RIT/AU result. It will come down to who has a better conference record between Alfred and Ithaca; if Ithaca does, Utica hosts; if Alfred does, Fisher hosts. Fisher fans will be rooting for a lot Bomber losses and Pioneers fans will be rooting for a lot of Alfred losses. This, of course, is all speculation. Utica won't have to worry about it if they can take care of business at Fisher.

Superman, I agree all the undefeated conference record talk was a bit premature. That said, Utica is the best team in the conference right now. Period.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:18:49 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 02, 2007, 10:15:06 PM
ok this tie-breaker situation could get really intresting if fisher is able to go without losing for the rest of the season.....that's a big if....


well I think some of the overzelous utica fans need to come on here and admitt they were wrong, not only did utica lose their second game of the second half of the season but it wasn't even against the second best team in the league...Utica is a good team not a great team...Great teams put away average teams at home in OT...and it's not the first time utica

Even with the loss, they are still likely to be ranked number 1 in the region at this point. Teams lose. Anyone can beat anyone on any given day. Well, unless you are that team that lost for like 11 straight seasons. Anybody else read about that?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 02, 2007, 10:20:38 PM
Is Utica the best team right now yes....but Utic'as one lose is at home both of fisher's loses are on the road...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 02, 2007, 10:23:18 PM
go bombers, utica may be the best team but its def not obvious. we'll see who wins at fisher to determine that one.  Also, who has UTica beat this season that is actually good besides Fisher (who they had to beat in OT at the home place?) I think there a good team but again not past a 2nd round Ncaa tourny team if that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on February 02, 2007, 11:42:26 PM
Hey Everyone, how was the Fisher game tonight against NAZ? Pretty loud and crazy. I got to the door tonight and the GAME WAS SOLD OUT! I was dissapointed. Anyone know, if the game tom. against RIT is sold out as well? Am I good to get a ticket at the door safely? You think RIT will give Fisher a run for their money? Thanks everyone!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 03, 2007, 12:14:20 AM
BJ the RIT game is not sold out....though to be safe I would get there around 1:00 or 1:30 probably 1:30 and that way you get your choice of seat and you get to see a good womans game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 03, 2007, 12:35:30 AM
got some intresting stats for attendance this is as of yesterday Looks like fisher draws a crowd whereever they go...both fisher, naz and RIT should all raise after this weekend...and fisher should raise again after utica...

ATTENDANCE
Team                 | HOME GAMES  Avg | AWAY GAMES  Avg | NEUT GAMES  Avg | ALL GAMES   Avg |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred               |  5-212       42 | 10-2878     288 |  2-290      145 | 17-3380     199 |
Elmira               | 10-1005     100 |  8-1790     224 |  0-0          0 | 18-2795     155 |
Hartwick             |  7-1677     240 | 11-4616     420 |  1-0          0 | 19-6293     331 |
Ithaca               |  8-0          0 |  9-1666     185 |  1-0          0 | 18-1666      93 |
Nazareth             | 11-4606     419 |  4-887      222 |  3-704      235 | 18-6197     344 |
RIT                  |  8-3173     397 |  8-1915     239 |  2-327      164 | 18-5415     301 |
St. John Fisher      |  6-3150     525 |  9-4256     473 |  3-1395     465 | 18-8801     489 |
Utica                |  9-2344     260 |  9-1265     141 |  0-0          0 | 18-3609     200 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Totals               | 64-16167    253 | 68-19273    283 | 12-2716     226 | 115-30721    267 |
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 12:36:58 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 02, 2007, 10:23:18 PM
go bombers, utica may be the best team but its def not obvious. we'll see who wins at fisher to determine that one.  Also, who has UTica beat this season that is actually good besides Fisher (who they had to beat in OT at the home place?) I think there a good team but again not past a 2nd round Ncaa tourny team if that.

I don't think I ever used the word obvious. Utica is still in 1st place, thus, they are the best team in the conference right now.

Quote from: Superman57 on February 02, 2007, 10:20:38 PM
Is Utica the best team right now yes....but Utic'as one lose is at home both of fisher's loses are on the road...

I'm pretty positive that Utica will beat Alfred at their place. I don't think who loses where matters. So long as IC finishes with a better conference record than Alfred (likely), the E8 Tourney is going to be in Utica this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 03, 2007, 12:45:57 AM
Well...Fishwer good win...UC bad loss, go bombers
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 12:52:18 AM
By the way, FisherDynasty, your boy Coco had 24 and 8 tonight. I figured he had a good night when you coincidentally left out his statistics in your earlier post.

(Cue weak "anyone can have good stats against Elmira" rant)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 03, 2007, 01:02:14 AM
Things that irk me and make no sense:  RIT is 4-0 on the road, 0-4 at home.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 03, 2007, 01:03:42 AM
gobombers, 1) your annoying 2) i hardly ever give stats in my posts anyways 3) u said it yourself, elmira.


anyways, i dont really care who the best team in the conference is, either way, there close, and all that matters is the tourny.  Until then, im done arguing about whos the best, time will tell.  Like i said before, if utica beats fisher at home, and wins the e8 tourny ill think they're the best and wish them luck in the tourny.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 01:11:52 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 03, 2007, 01:03:42 AM
gobombers, 1) your annoying 2) i hardly ever give stats in my posts anyways 3) u said it yourself, elmira.


anyways, i dont really care who the best team in the conference is, either way, there close, and all that matters is the tourny.  Until then, im done arguing about whos the best, time will tell.  Like i said before, if utica beats fisher at home, and wins the e8 tourny ill think they're the best and wish them luck in the tourny.

Yeah, I mean, I'd hate it if people pointed out all the dumb things I said, too. Annoying? Ok, bud, sure. You wanted to rub it in my face when Coco had six points and I'm just giving a little back to you. You can dish it but can't take it, huh?

I think RIT gives Fisher a tight game tomorrow. We'll see.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 03, 2007, 01:20:21 AM
if your read the point of my post he doesnt do it against the good teams (Fisher, Utica).  my brother with one arm is better then elmira.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 03, 2007, 02:00:50 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 02, 2007, 10:03:33 PM
no fight...they forgot to update the page fisher wins 69-61

In order to have the Live Stats go final the statkeeper has to remember to finalize the game or something, a step many many schools forget to do.

I used to wonder the same thing until an SID who knows better filled me in.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 03, 2007, 08:50:15 AM
Ok ok ok ok we are not going undefeated.  Too bad, it would have been fun.
Ithaca outplayed us last night plain and simple.  Have to give them credit.
Onto today
Winners will be
Ithaca
Fisher
Alfred
And of course US

No real shockers last night in my opinion.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 03, 2007, 08:59:16 AM
Pep observes a trend based on 2007 conference play (far short of scientific research standards), leading one to theorize that the Ithaca Bombers play very well on Friday nights, followed by a let-down on Saturday afternoons.

Pep cites the following:

Fri., Jan. 12  IC 74, Hartwick 57
Sat., Jan. 13  Utica 85, IC 63

Fri. Jan. 19   IC 75, Naz 68
Sat. Jan. 20  RIT 90, IC 84

Fri. Jan. 26   IC 68, AU 57
Sat. Jan. 27   Fisher 88, IC 59

Fri. Feb. 2   IC 70, Utica 68 (OT)

Were Pep a gambling man, he'd pick the Bombers to fall to the homestanding Hartwick Hawks today. But, thank God, Pep is no gambling man (or he'd be a poor man indeed) ....Pep thinks the Bombers will win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 03, 2007, 09:46:27 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 03, 2007, 02:00:50 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 02, 2007, 10:03:33 PM
no fight...they forgot to update the page fisher wins 69-61

In order to have the Live Stats go final the statkeeper has to remember to finalize the game or something, a step many many schools forget to do.

I used to wonder the same thing until an SID who knows better filled me in.

Pat I realized that is probably what happened... but when you get fisher naz in a place like varisty gym with intentional fouls at the end of a heated game...you get worried
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 03, 2007, 10:08:57 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 10:08:26 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:01:16 PM
ithaca wins by 2.

No gloating because Utica is still the best team in the conference. Gutsy performance by the Bombers coming off the thrashing at Fisher and the loss to O-State. A lot of character to take a dagger like Bryant's shot with 1 second remaining and regulation and still come out strong in OT. I'd say the team that has that happen to them usually loses about 80% of the time in OT. Good win, hopefully this will help Ithaca turn the corner.

If IC loses to Hartwick, this win means nothing. According to Postup, there's a 55% chance that IC will lose to Hartwick, so who knows. Looking WAY down the road, this loss may hurt Utica in a tiebreaker with Fisher if that ends up taking place.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 03, 2007, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2007, 10:08:26 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2007, 10:01:16 PM
ithaca wins by 2.

No gloating because Utica is still the best team in the conference. Gutsy performance by the Bombers coming off the thrashing at Fisher and the loss to O-State. A lot of character to take a dagger like Bryant's shot with 1 second remaining and regulation and still come out strong in OT. I'd say the team that has that happen to them usually loses about 80% of the time in OT. Good win, hopefully this will help Ithaca turn the corner.

If IC loses to Hartwick, this win means nothing. According to Postup, there's a 55% chance that IC will lose to Hartwick, so who knows. Looking WAY down the road, this loss may hurt Utica in a tiebreaker with Fisher if that ends up taking place.

It was a good deal for Fisher that Ithaca pulled out that one. Utica is still in the drivers seat for the tie breaker if Fisher beats them. The AU loss to RIT made sure of that. Ithaca will probably finish ahead of AU in the final standings. If that is the case then UC would win the tie breaker because of that rediculous tie breaker the E8 has.

If Fisher can beat UC and AU can find a way to beat Ithaca next weekend, then Fisher may have a shot at the tourny being at Varsity gym.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 03, 2007, 10:33:24 AM
Does anyone know what the situation will be if Ithaca and AU finish with the same record in the conference? AU is one game back from Ithaca as of today.

Is the tie breaker the same to determine which team gets into the tourny? and, What will that do to the tie breaker for first place?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 03, 2007, 11:19:21 AM
sjfcards,

I believe the first tiebreaker is head to head, then it moves to record against the worst of the conference, moving up the standings to break the tie. 


This might reinvigorate (or finally end) a nearly dead debate, but here's the Commissioner's Cup standings from '06, through the Fall Sports -- copied directly from the E8 website. 










SchoolPointsPossiblePercentage
Ithaca94.7120.789
RIT70.890.787
Naz75.3105.717
Fisher4475.587
Alfred45.6105.434
Utica44.2120.368
Hartwick34.8105.331
Elmira24.275.323

Obviously, the percentage column is how the standings are sorted, on account of some schools not competing in every sport.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2007, 11:22:50 AM
Quote from: bamm on February 03, 2007, 11:19:21 AM
sjfcards,

I believe the first tiebreaker is head to head, then it moves to record against the worst of the conference, moving up the standings to break the tie. 


This might reinvigorate a nearly dead debate, but here's the Commissioner's Cup standings from '06. 



SchoolPointsPossiblePercentage
Ithaca94.7120.789RIT70.890.787Naz75.3105.717Fisher4475.587Alfred45.6105.434Utica44.2120.368Hartwick34.8105.331Elmira24.275.323


Somewhere along the line after head to head it goes to point differential between the tied teams as well. I am not sure when that applies.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 03, 2007, 11:34:14 AM
so I think we can all agree that if some how ithaca and alfred and fisher and utica end up tied then we are in  for a weird couple of days as we try to figure out who hosts...and by the way why wouldn't we go to overall record
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 11:38:10 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 03, 2007, 11:34:14 AM
so I think we can all agree that if some how ithaca and alfred and fisher and utica end up tied then we are in  for a weird couple of days as we try to figure out who hosts...and by the way why wouldn't we go to overall record

Incentives for cupcakes? Different teams play different OOC schedules. As stupid as point differential would be to determine a tiebreaker, it would be stupid if one team got to host because they scheduled a team like Bard while the other team scheduled Rochester. I think tiebreakers are always weird, in one way or another, but it's the next best thing besides making the team play a tiebreaking game. Teams won't have to worry about it if they just don't let another team tie them.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 11:39:11 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on February 03, 2007, 08:59:16 AM
Pep observes a trend based on 2007 conference play (far short of scientific research standards), leading one to theorize that the Ithaca Bombers play very well on Friday nights, followed by a let-down on Saturday afternoons.

Pep cites the following:

Fri., Jan. 12  IC 74, Hartwick 57
Sat., Jan. 13  Utica 85, IC 63

Fri. Jan. 19   IC 75, Naz 68
Sat. Jan. 20  RIT 90, IC 84

Fri. Jan. 26   IC 68, AU 57
Sat. Jan. 27   Fisher 88, IC 59

Fri. Feb. 2   IC 70, Utica 68 (OT)

Were Pep a gambling man, he'd pick the Bombers to fall to the homestanding Hartwick Hawks today. But, thank God, Pep is no gambling man (or he'd be a poor man indeed) ....Pep thinks the Bombers will win.


It has been a quirky season, for sure. How about RIT 0-4 at home in the conference, and 4-0 on the road. That doesn't happen too often.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on February 03, 2007, 02:10:50 PM
Superman57, thanks for your response. I got my tickets at the door this morning. I hope todays game will be a good one against RIT. I'm real excited for the game on the 16th against Utica. BIGGEST GAME OF THE YEAR. I asked the ladies who were selling the tickets, they think that game won't be sold out. What do you think?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 03, 2007, 03:47:57 PM
it won't sellout before the game...because only naz does that...but I do think that there is a chance that right before tip off they could sell out slight chance
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2007, 04:03:29 PM
Not sure if I heard right (the fam was so loud that I couldn't hear), but I think adam the bull just said that Ray was not starting today.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2007, 04:05:16 PM
Ray is indeed not starting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2007, 04:07:39 PM
Weird listening to the game on the radio. I didn't know that I could hear my Uncle singing the national anthem on the radio broadcasts.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 03, 2007, 04:16:29 PM
Any reason why Ray Bryant is not starting?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2007, 04:18:16 PM
Ray checks in for the first time. With Utica already up 14-4. I am not sure if they are just getting him a rest after a lot of minutes yesterday.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2007, 04:30:03 PM
8:18 left in the half. Utica is up 26-11. Elmira with only 3 field goals on the game so far (Collier has three 3's already).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2007, 04:38:02 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on February 03, 2007, 04:16:29 PM
Any reason why Ray Bryant is not starting?

Now that I think about it, he didn't start the first time UC played them either.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2007, 04:42:39 PM
UC up 38-18 at halftime.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 03, 2007, 04:44:59 PM
fisher up 38-30...big snow storm comming for the 585
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 04:59:19 PM
UCgrad or Superman, have either of the games given any score updates for 'Wick/Ithaca?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bigbetty55 on February 03, 2007, 05:03:17 PM
Ithaca up 34-30 at halftime.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2007, 05:05:33 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 04:59:19 PM
UCgrad or Superman, have either of the games given any score updates for 'Wick/Ithaca?

I havn't heard any, but I was away from the computer for a few. My Wife thinks Goodie was talking about Ray when he mentioned a player who took an elbow to the mouth last night that did some damage and sent him to the E.R. after the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: bigbetty55 on February 03, 2007, 05:03:17 PM
Ithaca up 34-30 at halftime.

Thanks! A little close for comfort but given how poorly Ithaca had started their other Saturday conference games, this is tremendous.

BigBetty, is the game on the internet? Or do you have a source at the game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2007, 05:08:40 PM
Sounds like Ray also has an injured ankle.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bigbetty55 on February 03, 2007, 05:09:30 PM
My daughter is at the game.  I don't think it is on the internet.  I tried everything but couldn't get it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2007, 05:26:53 PM
Utica up by 22 with 5:45 left.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 05:29:05 PM
Quote from: bigbetty55 on February 03, 2007, 05:09:30 PM
My daughter is at the game.  I don't think it is on the internet.  I tried everything but couldn't get it.

Ok, thanks. Further updates would be much appreciated as the game continues.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2007, 05:36:33 PM
Utica wins 72-49.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 03, 2007, 05:43:24 PM
fisher down by 2 with 8 seconds left
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 03, 2007, 05:47:53 PM
RIT beats Fisher 70-68, RIT makes huge plays down the stretch. Big rebounds and they played real good defense on Fisher's last possesion.

Fisher caught a break with the Utica loss last night, and handed it right back.
A little frustrating.

Any news on the Ithaca/Hartwick game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 05:54:11 PM
No upset in Oneonta as the Bombers upend Hartwick, 62-53. Sean Burton scores 18 for the Bombers and Jeff Bostic chips in 13 and 7. Coco goes for 12-6-5 but Ruffrage keeps him in check, somewhat. Solid win for the Bombers, avoiding the hangover from Friday night.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bigbetty55 on February 03, 2007, 05:54:45 PM
Ithaca wins!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 06:00:27 PM
RIT is a road juggernaut; 5-0 away from Clark Gym this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 06:45:57 PM
Just noticed Hartwick took advantage of another slow start for the Bombers, taking a quick 21-8 lead. The Bombers respond with a 20-0 run of their own and never trail again. Hartwick pulls within two with 8 mins left but the Bombers go on a 8-0 run and never look back. Hartwick doesn't score a FG over the last 8:19 of the game. Ithaca's been playing better defense since the Fisher game.

I think IC needs 8 wins to assure them a berth in the E8 Tourney. Standing at 6-3, they only need two more. One of those wins will almost assuredly come at Elmira, meaning they will have to only win one of their four other games (at RIT, at Naz, vs Fisher, vs Alfred). None of those will be easy, but I think they can take a minimum of two.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 03, 2007, 07:00:40 PM
Not that I'm complaining about a win, but would it be too much to ask if any particular Bomber could have back-to-back good games?  Leahy and Brown, who each were vital to the Utica win, were total nonfactors today and it was all on Burton and Bostic to get the W, with some help from Stahn and Rogers.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 03, 2007, 07:03:53 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2007, 06:00:27 PM
RIT is a road juggernaut; 5-0 away from Clark Gym this year.
It's about time RIT finally got one vs. Fisher. They always seem to play them tough and then fall apart in the end. It's good to see they got over that mental hurdle after losing 10 in a row to Fisher.

And after having to watch NC State beat UNC in person today, at least one of my teams got a win today.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 03, 2007, 10:18:27 PM
Caught the second half of the RIT/Fisher game.  Huge plays from Rick Whitwood  and Colin Roy down the stretch to end a painful Fisher winning streak. 

Referees were not letting anything go, a lot of foul shots for both sides (both teams were pretty mediocre from the line, as well).

RIT down by 7 with about 12 minutes left when Barrett Zeinfeld hit 3 consecutive threes, the last two off the dribble and covered well to put RIT up 2.  They never trailed again.

Bacon has a great statistical game, 15 points, 14 rebounds... as long as you ignore his free throw shooting (5-14).  For the record, McSweeney had 9 points and 6 boards.

Tigers own the Cardinals on the boards, 49-36.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 04, 2007, 09:13:35 AM
Ray Bryant was named to the d3hoops.com team of the week for last week. I just noticed it yesterday.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 04, 2007, 09:14:50 AM
Quote from: bamm on February 03, 2007, 10:18:27 PM
Caught the second half of the RIT/Fisher game.  Huge plays from Rick Whitwood  and Colin Roy down the stretch to end a painful Fisher winning streak. 

Referees were not letting anything go, a lot of foul shots for both sides (both teams were pretty mediocre from the line, as well).

RIT down by 7 with about 12 minutes left when Barrett Zeinfeld hit 3 consecutive threes, the last two off the dribble and covered well to put RIT up 2.  They never trailed again.

Bacon has a great statistical game, 15 points, 14 rebounds... as long as you ignore his free throw shooting (5-14).  For the record, McSweeney had 9 points and 6 boards.

Tigers own the Cardinals on the boards, 49-36.


Do you or any rit guys know how the cheerleader that was injured in the Utica game is doing? She left in an ambulance.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 04, 2007, 05:46:12 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 03, 2007, 10:18:27 PM
Caught the second half of the RIT/Fisher game.  Huge plays from Rick Whitwood  and Colin Roy down the stretch to end a painful Fisher winning streak. 

Referees were not letting anything go, a lot of foul shots for both sides (both teams were pretty mediocre from the line, as well).

RIT down by 7 with about 12 minutes left when Barrett Zeinfeld hit 3 consecutive threes, the last two off the dribble and covered well to put RIT up 2.  They never trailed again.

Bacon has a great statistical game, 15 points, 14 rebounds... as long as you ignore his free throw shooting (5-14).  For the record, McSweeney had 9 points and 6 boards.

Tigers own the Cardinals on the boards, 49-36.

What about RIT's free throw shooting? less than 50%? While the Tigers put AU away Friday night, AUPepBand was shocked to observe a total of THREE air balls from the free throw line by two different big Tigers in the second half...and without any intimidation or distraction from a relatively reserved crowd. When Pep went to get Pep Jr. from the pool locker room, Pep asked the Zebras there whether they'd ever seen that before. "We were just talking about that," one replied. Tigers no doubt will spend some time this week taking free throws.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 04, 2007, 10:31:40 PM
UCGrad,

I haven't heard anything about the cheerleader.  This, hopefully, is a good thing.  I wasn't at the game that night, so I really know nothing about the incident.

Pep,

RIT, as a team, are shooting 60% from the line.  The biggest problem has been at the center position, where it seems like Bacon and Mark Carson have shot something like 8 for 200 (really 43% and 14%, respectively).  This is more interesting in Bacon's case, as I remember him being very good from the line last year (I couldn't find the stats quickly). 

Anyway, the win on Saturday was huge on a number of levels.  The conference race is really going to come down to the wire.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 05, 2007, 09:02:48 AM
So the weekend really seems to have tossed the conference race up in the air.  At this point it seems to me that Fisher, Ithaca, Alfred and RIT are all in contention of being the odd man out of the E8 tournament at 6-3, 6-3, 5-4, 5-4 respectively.  I am too busy to amass each team's remaining schedule and try to figure out which teams have the inside track for the stretch run.  But I have a different question to pose for discussion.  Does the parity in the league help or hurt the E8's chances of getting a second team in the tournament? I can see it both ways.  On the one hand, you can see the entire league as being down on account of youth.  If you already thought that, you could see the parity as being further evidence of each team's general mediocrity.  Or, you could see the parity as proof that each of these teams are better than once expected giving an outside shot at a second NCAA participant.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 05, 2007, 09:21:10 AM
Much as he hates to admit it, AUPepBand sees the Saxons going no better than 2-3 in their final five games, finishing at 7-7 in the conference. Ithaca and RIT should each finish 8-6, Fisher 10-4 at the worst 9-5, with Utica probably 12-2 or 13-1.

While AU will by no means roll over and play dead, Fisher will be up for the Saxons in the Cards' tiny gym after dropping a 51-50 verdict at McLane a couple weeks ago. And while the Saxons will give Utica a fight, it will take a Miracle at McLane to beat the Pioneers, and, while AU's motto is Fiat Lux or "Let There Be Light," when AU's founders adopted that creed, Pep doesn't think they had in mind the Saxons lighting up the Bulb in Ithaca.

Nevertheless, Pep declares, "On Saxon Warriors....o'er every adversity!"


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 05, 2007, 09:21:25 AM
Hey Mr. Chair.
I think it hurts only because the overall lack of talent (sorry guys- its true) for the league is down, they will beat each other up and only one makes it to the tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on February 05, 2007, 09:33:22 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 05, 2007, 09:02:48 AM
So the weekend really seems to have tossed the conference race up in the air.  At this point it seems to me that Fisher, Ithaca, Alfred and RIT are all in contention of being the odd man out of the E8 tournament at 6-3, 6-3, 5-4, 5-4 respectively.  I am too busy to amass each team's remaining schedule and try to figure out which teams have the inside track for the stretch run.  But I have a different question to pose for discussion.  Does the parity in the league help or hurt the E8's chances of getting a second team in the tournament? I can see it both ways.  On the one hand, you can see the entire league as being down on account of youth.  If you already thought that, you could see the parity as being further evidence of each team's general mediocrity.  Or, you could see the parity as proof that each of these teams are better than once expected giving an outside shot at a second NCAA participant.  Thoughts?

Probably a little bit of both. Two teams got into the NCAA tournament last year and they both fared very well. So, right off the bat, that's going to help the reputation of the league. And that may happen again if someone other than Utica wins the Empire 8 tournament. The large NCAA tournament field helps too. SUNYAC had two conference teams make the NCAAs last year too. They didn't do as well, Cortland losing in the 2nd round, Platty in the first, so that will hurt them. And since the league, aside from Brockport (good idea to transfer Jon Rother), is having a pretty poor season, expect only one bid for that league, and possibly the LL/UCAA.

On the downside, everyone's beating each other up and if that trend continues, no one's resume is going to stand out as really really good, aside from Utica. I haven't really followed much Empire 8 basketball since I've been busy covering the Big South, but non-conference wins for each team are key too. Whichever team has good non-conference wins will add to their resume.

I think the best bet though for two Empire 8 teams would be if someone not named Utica wins the conference tournament. Then that team and Utica more than likely get in. Jeez, when I first started working for D3hoops.com, I never thought I'd say Utica and playoffs for basketball in the same sentence. That program's come a long way in the last four-to-five years.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on February 05, 2007, 10:06:23 AM
As much as J. Rother would've been lost in this mix of Bport talent, he hasn't fared much better at Willy P. Team's 13-8 (5-5 NJAC) after blown out by R. Stockton. Ex-Cortland, ex-Bport Rother averaging 17' and not a lot of numbers. Has played in 13 games (now starting) because of injuries that have generally got in the way of what was expected to be another big WP season
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 05, 2007, 04:34:09 PM
I'm interested to know who the Utica and Fisher fans would prefer seeing their team play against in the E8 Semis. I have a feeling that most Utica fans would prefer to see RIT while most Fisher fans will want to see Ithaca. Just wanna see if that's the case.

(This is assuming that Alfred doesn't make it)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 05, 2007, 04:48:40 PM
it's tough to tell.  I'd like to see how fisher does again against ithaca before making the decision.  Fisher has played RIT 3 times, it is always tough to beat a team 3 times.  Since they got the loss out, I would not be too dissapointed if Fisher was matched up with them come tourny time.  I don't think they would loose, where as if Fisher plays Ithaca for the 2nd time and it is close, the 3rd time would be that much harder and I would rather have Fisher play RIT. But if its another blow out then yeah i'd take Ithaca.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on February 05, 2007, 04:56:53 PM
Quote from: jdex on February 05, 2007, 10:06:23 AM
As much as J. Rother would've been lost in this mix of Bport talent, he hasn't fared much better at Willy P. Team's 13-8 (5-5 NJAC) after blown out by R. Stockton. Ex-Cortland, ex-Bport Rother averaging 17' and not a lot of numbers. Has played in 13 games (now starting) because of injuries that have generally got in the way of what was expected to be another big WP season


Didn't he attend MCC for a while too?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on February 05, 2007, 06:01:09 PM
Yes, Johnnie Mac, believe he did between time he got the boot from Corts and decision on next destination -- Bport. Couldn't have played at Monroe, which is why he's performing for WP (?)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 05, 2007, 06:12:59 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 05, 2007, 04:34:09 PM
I'm interested to know who the Utica and Fisher fans would prefer seeing their team play against in the E8 Semis. I have a feeling that most Utica fans would prefer to see RIT while most Fisher fans will want to see Ithaca. Just wanna see if that's the case.

(This is assuming that Alfred doesn't make it)



Despite their loss to Ithaca I think the Pioneers would have no preference between the Bobmers and RIT. I believe when Utica is playing their best basketball which they have for many games this season, they cant be beat by any team in this league. When they struggle to score they are beatable. I think RIT and Ithaca are very even.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 05, 2007, 06:14:37 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 04, 2007, 10:31:40 PM
UCGrad,

I haven't heard anything about the cheerleader.  This, hopefully, is a good thing.  I wasn't at the game that night, so I really know nothing about the incident.

Pep,

RIT, as a team, are shooting 60% from the line.  The biggest problem has been at the center position, where it seems like Bacon and Mark Carson have shot something like 8 for 200 (really 43% and 14%, respectively).  This is more interesting in Bacon's case, as I remember him being very good from the line last year (I couldn't find the stats quickly). 

Anyway, the win on Saturday was huge on a number of levels.  The conference race is really going to come down to the wire.



I was in the arena for the Cheerleader incident...it was ugly...I hope she is OK, but have not heard anything.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 05, 2007, 06:24:53 PM
Quote from: Adam the Bull on February 05, 2007, 06:12:59 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 05, 2007, 04:34:09 PM
I'm interested to know who the Utica and Fisher fans would prefer seeing their team play against in the E8 Semis. I have a feeling that most Utica fans would prefer to see RIT while most Fisher fans will want to see Ithaca. Just wanna see if that's the case.

(This is assuming that Alfred doesn't make it)



Despite their loss to Ithaca I think the Pioneers would have no preference between the Bobmers and RIT. I believe when Utica is playing their best basketball which they have for many games this season, they cant be beat by any team in this league. When they struggle to score they are beatable. I think RIT and Ithaca are very even.

Adam, you were there. What was the biggest difference between the first meeting and second meeting between IC/UC? Was Utica just way off? Was Ithaca just hitting everything? I'm interested to hear why you think this game went the other way when Utica had a 30+ pt lead on Ithaca at Ithaca earlier in the year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 05, 2007, 06:31:46 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 05, 2007, 06:24:53 PM
Quote from: Adam the Bull on February 05, 2007, 06:12:59 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 05, 2007, 04:34:09 PM
I'm interested to know who the Utica and Fisher fans would prefer seeing their team play against in the E8 Semis. I have a feeling that most Utica fans would prefer to see RIT while most Fisher fans will want to see Ithaca. Just wanna see if that's the case.

(This is assuming that Alfred doesn't make it)

Adam, you were there. What was the biggest difference between the first meeting and second meeting between IC/UC? Was Utica just way off? Was Ithaca just hitting everything? I'm interested to hear why you think this game went the other way when Utica had a 30+ pt lead on Ithaca at Ithaca earlier in the year.



Despite their loss to Ithaca I think the Pioneers would have no preference between the Bobmers and RIT. I believe when Utica is playing their best basketball which they have for many games this season, they cant be beat by any team in this league. When they struggle to score they are beatable. I think RIT and Ithaca are very even.

GoBombers...I did not attend the loss to Ithaca as I was sick (thankfully I am finally feeling better) I was getting constant updates....and from what I gather from talking to the players and some attendees...UC did a very poor job on Burton after totally shutting him down in the first meeting. Also, I think the Pioneers went into the game over confident and were starting to by into the hype about the undefeated conference season...that said, even in the win at Ithaca I could see they were a decent team and I feel the same way about RIT. I will say that as far as the center position goes....Bostic is much more dangerous to the Pioneers then Bacon. Not necessarily saying that Bostic is better...I just think UC match's up better with Bacon.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 05, 2007, 06:45:22 PM
I think utica has shown that they are not a consistant team...they are a very very good team when they are on...but when they are not on I think they are very beatable
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 05, 2007, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 05, 2007, 06:45:22 PM
I think utica has shown that they are not a consistant team...they are a very very good team when they are on...but when they are not on I think they are very beatable

I assume you feel the same way about Fisher?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 05, 2007, 06:59:32 PM
I don't think fisher's even on the same page as utica...and I also think it is very different...I think fisher is on the up rise while utica is going to be on the down because uticas stars are seniors....while fisher is playing a lot of freshman... I think fisher with give utica a fit in the e8 tourny followed by a strong run in the ecac's I think utica will be lucky to get back to the sweet 16
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 05, 2007, 09:34:49 PM
FisherDynasty,

The "it's tough to beat a team 3 times in a season" line of reasoning is crap.  All that matters is the game that is being played at the moment.  Fisher had no problem dispatching with RIT 8 times in two seasons, the "magical" third game wasn't any harder.  The same holds true for RIT's streak over Naz.

Fisher and RIT match up very well, and I think it's pretty dumb for you to suggest that because Fisher lost to RIT on Saturday they would be more likely to win the next game against the Tigers. 

If RIT could consistently make free throws the margin on Saturday would have been double digits, and they may have pulled out the win in the Chase.  I'd bet on them figuring this charity stripe problem out, too.  This is a good shooting team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 06, 2007, 08:44:52 AM
Adam the bull,
you working for Clear Channel still?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 06, 2007, 08:56:46 AM
Big conference games tonight.  Naz @ RIT and Alfred @ Fisher.  The Tigers need to get their first conference home win tonight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 06, 2007, 08:59:08 AM
Who woulda thought Alfred vs Fisher would be a big conference game, but your right bamm it is a big night in the E8. ill take RIT over Naz by 5 and Fisher over Alfred by 9-12.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 06, 2007, 09:24:44 AM
Quote from: John McGraw on February 05, 2007, 09:33:22 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 05, 2007, 09:02:48 AM
So the weekend really seems to have tossed the conference race up in the air.  At this point it seems to me that Fisher, Ithaca, Alfred and RIT are all in contention of being the odd man out of the E8 tournament at 6-3, 6-3, 5-4, 5-4 respectively.  I am too busy to amass each team's remaining schedule and try to figure out which teams have the inside track for the stretch run.  But I have a different question to pose for discussion.  Does the parity in the league help or hurt the E8's chances of getting a second team in the tournament? I can see it both ways.  On the one hand, you can see the entire league as being down on account of youth.  If you already thought that, you could see the parity as being further evidence of each team's general mediocrity.  Or, you could see the parity as proof that each of these teams are better than once expected giving an outside shot at a second NCAA participant.  Thoughts?

Probably a little bit of both. Two teams got into the NCAA tournament last year and they both fared very well. So, right off the bat, that's going to help the reputation of the league. And that may happen again if someone other than Utica wins the Empire 8 tournament. The large NCAA tournament field helps too. SUNYAC had two conference teams make the NCAAs last year too. They didn't do as well, Cortland losing in the 2nd round, Platty in the first, so that will hurt them. And since the league, aside from Brockport (good idea to transfer Jon Rother), is having a pretty poor season, expect only one bid for that league, and possibly the LL/UCAA.

On the downside, everyone's beating each other up and if that trend continues, no one's resume is going to stand out as really really good, aside from Utica. I haven't really followed much Empire 8 basketball since I've been busy covering the Big South, but non-conference wins for each team are key too. Whichever team has good non-conference wins will add to their resume.

I think the best bet though for two Empire 8 teams would be if someone not named Utica wins the conference tournament. Then that team and Utica more than likely get in. Jeez, when I first started working for D3hoops.com, I never thought I'd say Utica and playoffs for basketball in the same sentence. That program's come a long way in the last four-to-five years.


He won't take credit for it, but the success is coming from having Coach Goodemote. Even when he first started out taking over a long struggling program I could see that he is easily the best coach I have ever had the honor of being around and knowing. He cares about the guys in his program and people in general.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 06, 2007, 10:21:10 AM
It'll be interesting to see if Goodemote can keep Utica as one of the top two teams in the league. I think the coming years will see a lot of parity in the league after Utica loses Bryant. In fact, aside from Utica, there seems to be a logjam between the next five teams. I even include Naz on that list because it's obvious they have great talent but they can't seem to win a close game to save their lives and have blown more 2nd half leads than we can even get into right now. There is a lot of young talent in this league right now and it'll be interesting to see whose rises to the top.

In no way am I saying that Utica won't be able to be one of the elite teams. Herring has a couple years left and Goodman/McClendon seem like they're both going to grow into quality bigs in this league. Goodemote also seems like he can go out and pick up other players to come in and help the program like Troy and Bryant. I'm just saying that with so many teams that will have seemingly equivalent talent levels, it's going to be an interesting couple of years. I don't necessarily think that it will be a guarantee that the league will always come down to Fisher and Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 06, 2007, 10:51:29 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 06, 2007, 10:21:10 AM
It'll be interesting to see if Goodemote can keep Utica as one of the top two teams in the league. I think the coming years will see a lot of parity in the league after Utica loses Bryant. In fact, aside from Utica, there seems to be a logjam between the next five teams. I even include Naz on that list because it's obvious they have great talent but they can't seem to win a close game to save their lives and have blown more 2nd half leads than we can even get into right now. There is a lot of young talent in this league right now and it'll be interesting to see whose rises to the top.

In no way am I saying that Utica won't be able to be one of the elite teams. Herring has a couple years left and Goodman/McClendon seem like they're both going to grow into quality bigs in this league. Goodemote also seems like he can go out and pick up other players to come in and help the program like Troy and Bryant. I'm just saying that with so many teams that will have seemingly equivalent talent levels, it's going to be an interesting couple of years. I don't necessarily think that it will be a guarantee that the league will always come down to Fisher and Utica.

Another thing that could prove interesting in the next couple years is if Goodemote stays at Utica. I haven't heard anything to indicate that he might leave but given the work he's already done he definately seems like he would be a good candidate for a bigger name program looking for a new coach.

Just for an example, and we can even keep it in the league, what if Naz got rid of Daley and brought in Goodemote. Nothing agaist UC but I would think that Naz is a more attractive job for a coach given the location (Pittsford vs. Utica) as well as a recruiting base and the compensation he would be likely to receive.
It's also scary to think how good Naz could be with all that talent they have and with a good coach leading them.
Again, just an example.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 06, 2007, 12:59:40 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on February 06, 2007, 10:51:29 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 06, 2007, 10:21:10 AM
It'll be interesting to see if Goodemote can keep Utica as one of the top two teams in the league. I think the coming years will see a lot of parity in the league after Utica loses Bryant. In fact, aside from Utica, there seems to be a logjam between the next five teams. I even include Naz on that list because it's obvious they have great talent but they can't seem to win a close game to save their lives and have blown more 2nd half leads than we can even get into right now. There is a lot of young talent in this league right now and it'll be interesting to see whose rises to the top.

In no way am I saying that Utica won't be able to be one of the elite teams. Herring has a couple years left and Goodman/McClendon seem like they're both going to grow into quality bigs in this league. Goodemote also seems like he can go out and pick up other players to come in and help the program like Troy and Bryant. I'm just saying that with so many teams that will have seemingly equivalent talent levels, it's going to be an interesting couple of years. I don't necessarily think that it will be a guarantee that the league will always come down to Fisher and Utica.

Another thing that could prove interesting in the next couple years is if Goodemote stays at Utica. I haven't heard anything to indicate that he might leave but given the work he's already done he definately seems like he would be a good candidate for a bigger name program looking for a new coach.

Just for an example, and we can even keep it in the league, what if Naz got rid of Daley and brought in Goodemote. Nothing agaist UC but I would think that Naz is a more attractive job for a coach given the location (Pittsford vs. Utica) as well as a recruiting base and the compensation he would be likely to receive.
It's also scary to think how good Naz could be with all that talent they have and with a good coach leading them.
Again, just an example.


Tiger Fan...I would have to say that there is no chance Coach Goodemote would take the Naz job...I dont think he would move west of Utica anytime soon. He lives east of Utica....and is not likely to move....not to mention he has built something good at UC and I dont think he would leave the gig for a lateral move.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 06, 2007, 01:00:51 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 06, 2007, 08:44:52 AM
Adam the bull,
you working for Clear Channel still?



Yes I do.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 06, 2007, 01:18:34 PM
I could see goodemonte getting offered an assitant gig...I could also see kornaker being offered jobs too...whether or not kornaker would ever leave would solely depend on the job...Right now I think kornaker is doing very very well
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 06, 2007, 01:30:07 PM
Good to hear.
I know your GM very well.
The Doc mad mention of you the other day too.
Welcome to the board!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 06, 2007, 02:01:48 PM
Quote from: Adam the Bull on February 06, 2007, 12:59:40 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on February 06, 2007, 10:51:29 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 06, 2007, 10:21:10 AM
It'll be interesting to see if Goodemote can keep Utica as one of the top two teams in the league. I think the coming years will see a lot of parity in the league after Utica loses Bryant. In fact, aside from Utica, there seems to be a logjam between the next five teams. I even include Naz on that list because it's obvious they have great talent but they can't seem to win a close game to save their lives and have blown more 2nd half leads than we can even get into right now. There is a lot of young talent in this league right now and it'll be interesting to see whose rises to the top.

In no way am I saying that Utica won't be able to be one of the elite teams. Herring has a couple years left and Goodman/McClendon seem like they're both going to grow into quality bigs in this league. Goodemote also seems like he can go out and pick up other players to come in and help the program like Troy and Bryant. I'm just saying that with so many teams that will have seemingly equivalent talent levels, it's going to be an interesting couple of years. I don't necessarily think that it will be a guarantee that the league will always come down to Fisher and Utica.

Another thing that could prove interesting in the next couple years is if Goodemote stays at Utica. I haven't heard anything to indicate that he might leave but given the work he's already done he definately seems like he would be a good candidate for a bigger name program looking for a new coach.

Just for an example, and we can even keep it in the league, what if Naz got rid of Daley and brought in Goodemote. Nothing agaist UC but I would think that Naz is a more attractive job for a coach given the location (Pittsford vs. Utica) as well as a recruiting base and the compensation he would be likely to receive.
It's also scary to think how good Naz could be with all that talent they have and with a good coach leading them.
Again, just an example.


Tiger Fan...I would have to say that there is no chance Coach Goodemote would take the Naz job...I dont think he would move west of Utica anytime soon. He lives east of Utica....and is not likely to move....not to mention he has built something good at UC and I dont think he would leave the gig for a lateral move.

Adam, I was just throwing Naz out there as a hypothetical, my point was that if he got offered something bigger would he leave. Since he lives east, what if a team like Amherst or Williams came calling?

I wasn't saying that Naz should fire Daley and offer him the job (although firing Daley wouldn't be a bad start), I'm saying if something else came along, should UC be concerned he would leave.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on February 06, 2007, 02:42:21 PM
I agree with Adam. It doesn't make sense to go from one Empire 8 school to another. Even if Nazareth is in a bigger area and Pittsford is nicer than Utica.

If anything, Division III coaches that want to move up usually go to Division I programs as assistant coaches. For example, few years ago GP Gromacki developed a great program at St. Lawrence. They went to the women's national title game in 2001 against Stevens Point. Later, Gromacki left St. Lawrence and took an assistant coaches job at Temple. Though, he eventually went full circle and now he's back in the Liberty League, at Hamilton. That obviously wasn't in his mind when he went to Temple.

There's a handful of coaches that have gone from the Division III ranks to a Division I assistant coach. Or, they become head coaches at mid-major D-I's and then gradually move up to the big show, like Wisconsin's Bo Ryan.

But, for this situation, I don't see Goodemote moving anytime soon. He's developed a good program at Utica and why leave a winner for the time being? I'd be thinking more that Kornaker would move on before Goodemote.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 06, 2007, 03:11:15 PM
Quote from: John McGraw on February 06, 2007, 02:42:21 PM
I agree with Adam. It doesn't make sense to go from one Empire 8 school to another. Even if Nazareth is in a bigger area and Pittsford is nicer than Utica.

If anything, Division III coaches that want to move up usually go to Division I programs as assistant coaches. For example, few years ago GP Gromacki developed a great program at St. Lawrence. They went to the women's national title game in 2001 against Stevens Point. Later, Gromacki left St. Lawrence and took an assistant coaches job at Temple. Though, he eventually went full circle and now he's back in the Liberty League, at Hamilton. That obviously wasn't in his mind when he went to Temple.

There's a handful of coaches that have gone from the Division III ranks to a Division I assistant coach. Or, they become head coaches at mid-major D-I's and then gradually move up to the big show, like Wisconsin's Bo Ryan.

But, for this situation, I don't see Goodemote moving anytime soon. He's developed a good program at Utica and why leave a winner for the time being? I'd be thinking more that Kornaker would move on before Goodemote.


I agree...I think Coach Goodemote is happy at Utica and is in a good situation here.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 06, 2007, 03:12:13 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 06, 2007, 01:30:07 PM
Good to hear.
I know your GM very well.
The Doc mad mention of you the other day too.
Welcome to the board!


My GM is a good man....which is unusual in the radio world.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 06, 2007, 03:45:42 PM
First off, I was in no way trying to imply that I thought that Goodemote should leave UC for Naz, it was purely hypothetical.

Secondly, I understand that most D3 coaches that want to move up would prefer a D1 assistant job, but what would be wrong with moving to a different D3 school if the situation were right?

Finally, why would a move within the E8 not make sense?
Some schools spend more than others in terms of Ath. Dept. spending. I find it hard to accept that if a coach got offered a job where the funding for the program was better, a better salary was offered and there was a larger recruiting base that said coach would turn down the offer just because it was in the same conference.

What if, and again, this is hypothetical, a coach came to EC and turned the program around (tough job I know) and then Kornaker leaves Fisher. If Fisher offered their coaching job to the EC coach, should that coach not consider it since its in the same conference?

I think things may have gotten a little defensive because I mentioned Goodemote specifically and I understand that. If my team had a solid coach I wouldn't want him to leave the program either.



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 06, 2007, 03:50:09 PM
BD indeed is a very good man!
Keep up the good work!
And again welcome to the board- though I may be from the Utica area, I love my alma mater!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 06, 2007, 06:15:50 PM
Any predictions for the week ahead?..starting with tonight there are some big games for the E8 this week.

Fisher needs a sweep of the next three games to keep its hope of an at large bid alive...while IC is tied with Fisher and RIT and Alfred are just a game back of them.
Should be tough for Fisher to navigate the rest of the regular season without a loss...When was the last time they had 4 losses in a conference season?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 06, 2007, 06:17:39 PM
When was the last time they had 3 conferences losses? 2002 i believe.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 06, 2007, 08:40:35 PM
Fisher up on the Saxons, 27-17 at halftime.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 06, 2007, 09:35:27 PM
It's over....Fisher 81, AU 41
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 06, 2007, 09:52:38 PM
likes like a certain team was a little angry about losing to RIT and Alfred last time
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 06, 2007, 10:07:44 PM
So far this season fisher is playing exactly like expected (although hard to deal with).  Being young and with many new faces, I knew they would be very inconsistent and be vulnerable to more league losses and upsets then previous years.  Also, New that they can put together great games on an inconsistent basis to beat very good teams or blow out average teams like previous years.  That being said, look for them to continue to be inconsistent for the remainder of the year, hopefully will hit full stride by E8 tourny time which is in my opinion what is most likely going to happen seeing how they should get better each game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 06, 2007, 10:13:20 PM
there are two game in the next two weeks that should tell me a lot about this fisher team... at Ithaca and vs. Utica, but also whats going to be very telling is how fisher plays against Elmira and Hartwick
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 06, 2007, 10:28:55 PM
RIT finally won a conference home game and continued its winning streak over Naz tonight as well with a 69-60 win.

4 Tigers were in double figures led by Rob Hampton off the bench with 14. Canori led Naz with 22.

RIT did continue to struggle at the line, going 6-14 as a team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 06, 2007, 10:58:03 PM
Well I am glad to see Fisher play well again...That is a good way to start off a huge couple of weeks.

It seems like Fisher plays very well when they are angry and out to prove the last loss was a fluke. If they can find a way to harness that type of enthusiasm and anger they can beat up on any team in the league...

Problem is they tend to take games off...like superman said, this is about what we expected from this team. I just hope they can find a way to play well through the rest of the season and during the tourny.

Another note...RIT is starting to look like a very dangerous team. If they end up as the 4 seed, look out UC in the first round. They have proven that they can beat Fisher, and they could definatly be a sleeper in the trouny.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 07, 2007, 12:56:38 PM
Looks like it's going to be the same four teams in the E8 Tourney as it always is. Alfred seems to be fading a little bit and RIT is starting to play better. I really don't think it will matter in what order RIT and Ithaca make the tournament because, either way, I think both teams would be prohibitive underdogs in their semifinal games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 07, 2007, 01:04:25 PM
well I for one am VERY intrested to see how utica bounces back and handles two tough games this weekend...I feel that if RIT can correct their league worst free throw shooting they should be able to give Utica a scare...and well naz is naz you never know what team is going to show up
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 07, 2007, 01:22:14 PM
Utica will be fine. Naz isn't the same team on the road (except for Fisher) as they are when they play in Kidera Gym. I think Utica will thump them on Friday night. The RIT game will be a bit more difficult but, in Utica, I would have to think the Pioneers are still a substantial favorite. To beat a team like Utica, you have to do the little things well and something like a bad FT% could cost RIT dearly. I think Utica beats Naz by 15-20, and beats RIT by 8-12.

I think the Ithaca/Fisher game will be far closer this time around. Sure, I'm not really going out on a limb by saying that IC won't lose by 30 at home, but you get the general idea. If IC can keep Fisher close in the first 10 mins, it should be a good game. I still think Fisher wins by 5-8 points, though. They just have IC's number right now in men's hoops.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 07, 2007, 02:07:01 PM
GB15...the one thing I think is that Utica is better on the road than they are at home and RIT has wierdly not lost on the road yet.... so I think that RIT is just a huge wildcard...  I'm also curious about the Ithaca-Fisher game... Fisher has done well vs. Ithaca the past couple of years
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 07, 2007, 02:56:20 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 07, 2007, 02:07:01 PM
GB15...the one thing I think is that Utica is better on the road than they are at home and RIT has wierdly not lost on the road yet.... so I think that RIT is just a huge wildcard...  I'm also curious about the Ithaca-Fisher game... Fisher has done well vs. Ithaca the past couple of years

Hm, interesting opinion considering we always called Utica on its inability to win in Rochester against RIT/Fisher for many years. The knock on them was always that they were a lot tougher at home than on the road. I do think they're probably better at home than on the road. I'm not prepared to say they're a better road team just because IC beat them at their place. From the sound of it, Ithaca played a great game and Utica did a lot of things they usually don't do that ended up costing them. I guess we'll see over the next couple of weeks.

On a different note, it's almost guaranteed that the men's and women's E8 Tourneys will not be at the same place. That's a good thing unless you enjoyed having the IC/UC game tip at almost 11pm last year. It lookes like the ladies will be somewhere in the Southern Tier as Elmira or Ithaca will likely be the host.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 07, 2007, 02:58:34 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 07, 2007, 02:56:20 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 07, 2007, 02:07:01 PM
GB15...the one thing I think is that Utica is better on the road than they are at home and RIT has wierdly not lost on the road yet.... so I think that RIT is just a huge wildcard...  I'm also curious about the Ithaca-Fisher game... Fisher has done well vs. Ithaca the past couple of years

Hm, interesting opinion considering we always called Utica on its inability to win in Rochester against RIT/Fisher for many years. The knock on them was always that they were a lot tougher at home than on the road. I do think they're probably better at home than on the road. I'm not prepared to say they're a better road team just because IC beat them at their place. From the sound of it, Ithaca played a great game and Utica did a lot of things they usually don't do that ended up costing them. I guess we'll see over the next couple of weeks.

On a different note, it's almost guaranteed that the men's and women's E8 Tourneys will not be at the same place. That's a good thing unless you enjoyed having the IC/UC game tip at almost 11pm last year. It lookes like the ladies will be somewhere in the Southern Tier as Elmira or Ithaca will likely be the host.

I hope that Utica can get the host spot for the E8 tourney, because it might make life easier to get to the NCAAs not going through the gym at Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 07, 2007, 03:02:09 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 07, 2007, 02:07:01 PM
GB15...the one thing I think is that Utica is better on the road than they are at home and RIT has wierdly not lost on the road yet.... so I think that RIT is just a huge wildcard...  I'm also curious about the Ithaca-Fisher game... Fisher has done well vs. Ithaca the past couple of years

Huh....Utica has only lost one game at home all season and that was to Ithaca in overtime!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 07, 2007, 03:08:03 PM
Adam,
Agreed- though the ride through Roch will be very telling!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 07, 2007, 03:47:28 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 07, 2007, 02:07:01 PM
GB15...the one thing I think is that Utica is better on the road than they are at home and RIT has wierdly not lost on the road yet.... so I think that RIT is just a huge wildcard...  I'm also curious about the Ithaca-Fisher game... Fisher has done well vs. Ithaca the past couple of years

In the last 3 seasons, Utica is 28-6 at home.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 07, 2007, 04:13:32 PM
and fisher is something like 51-3 at home....my reasoning was it has seemed like utica has struggled a little bit at home this year
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 07, 2007, 04:20:59 PM
Struggled how?  Everything is relative, I suppose.  But I think the lack of understanding comes from trying to figure out  how you are defining that term.  It just seems a stretch to call 10-1 struggling. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 07, 2007, 04:28:19 PM
I guess I come from the policy that if your the best team in the league that is having an overall down year...you need to be undefeated at home at blowing teams out...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 07, 2007, 07:09:41 PM
I think UC is a good home team...however, RIT has been great on the road this year.

I agree with a lot of what gobombers had to say. I think Naz will keep it close early and end up throwing it away and lose by 15...
I agree that RIT will be an underdog on the road this weekend...but if they can figure out their free throw shooting (which was not all that bad the last 7-10 mins against Fisher...the rest of the game was garbage) I think they will beat UC.

Naz if nothing else will run a team for a while...RIT/Naz is never an easy weekend for any team, and I think that UC will drop one this weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Hoaf on February 07, 2007, 08:54:45 PM
The first regional rankings are up.

East Region
1 St. Lawrence 18-3 17-3
2 Brockport State 16-4 15-4
3 Utica 17-3 16-3
4 New York U. 16-4 14-4
5 Rochester 15-5 15-4
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 07, 2007, 08:57:17 PM
I think that Utica drops a close one to RIT....nothing against Utica...I think Utica is an ok team...they have not impressed me yet and beat a fisher team that played like cr*p in double ot
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 07, 2007, 10:30:56 PM
great article

[fisher-naz rivarly/url] (http://home.sjfc.edu/courier/pages/sports2-7-07/mbballrespect.htm)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 08, 2007, 08:26:55 AM
Ah the good old days of the Fisher Naz rivalries.
Remember them well!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 08, 2007, 08:27:20 AM
Naz still sucks   :P
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 08, 2007, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 07, 2007, 10:30:56 PM
great article

[fisher-naz rivarly/url]
(http://home.sjfc.edu/courier/pages/sports2-7-07/mbballrespect.htm)

Good article. But wait, Fisher fans chanted "fun-da-ment-tals" when its own team turned the ball over 18 times and shot 66% from the line. Not exactly fundamental excellence in those regards. I'm interested, which side did the "safety school" chant? It's an honest question.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 08, 2007, 11:11:00 AM
with the safety school...I really don't know who chanted that at who....is either school really the other's saftey school...I mean the two schools have really different focuses
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 08, 2007, 11:24:06 AM
i agree with super-
I dont know of many people - even going back in my time- that even applied to both colleges.

Totally diff focus.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 08, 2007, 12:27:08 PM
Early predictions for this week:

FRIDAY

Alfred over Elmira, 69-56
Fisher over Ithaca, 73-68
RIT over Hartwick, 71-62
Utica over Naz, 83-69

Saturday

Ithaca over Alfred, 67-57
Fisher over Elmira, 71-49
Hartwick over Naz, 80-78 (OT)
Utica over RIT, 74-67
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 08, 2007, 01:01:24 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 08, 2007, 12:27:08 PM
Early predictions for this week:

FRIDAY

Alfred over Elmira, 69-56
Fisher over Ithaca, 73-68
RIT over Hartwick, 71-62
Utica over Naz, 83-69

Saturday

Ithaca over Alfred, 67-57
Fisher over Elmira, 71-49
Hartwick over Naz, 80-78 (OT)
Utica over RIT, 74-67

FRIDAY

Alfred over Elmira, 78-56
Fisher over Ithaca, 87-68
RIT over Hartwick, 71-50
Utica over Naz, 83-69

Saturday

Alfred over Ithaca, 66-64
Fisher over Elmira, 88-49
Naz over Hartwick, 66-58)
RIT over Utica, 65-62
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 08, 2007, 02:08:28 PM
This is major news, I'd say, and something we're going to be seeing more of:

http://www.ritathletics.com/News/mbb/2007/2/8/bb020807.asp?path=mbb

ROCHESTER, NY – The Empire 8 Athletic Conference has announced that it will begin providing free video webcasts of its conference contests in various sports starting with this year's men's and women's basketball championship tournament. The Empire 8 also plans to webcast some of its championship events this spring with the goal of webcasting many regular season contests and conference tournaments starting in the fall of 2007.

"This is an exciting, cutting edge endeavor for our conference membership," said Chuck Mitrano, Empire 8 Commissioner. "Webcasts allow fans, alumni, parents and others close to the conference the ability to watch their teams compete regardless of where they live. The exposure will be great for the membership in so many ways. It's a great technology and one which we have embraced. These basketball championships are just the beginning."

The broadcasts will be run by Penn Atlantic, which was contracted by the NCAA and CBS Sports to video stream some of the NCAA Championships. The webcast will be shown on pennatlantic.com with free viewer registration required. The semifinals will be contested on Friday, February 23rd with the finals on Saturday, Feb. 24th. Exact times will depend upon who hosts the championships. For up-to-date information on the basketball tournament be sure to visit www.Empire8.com.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 08, 2007, 02:31:57 PM
Superman- I'd love to get Ithaca plus 19 vs Fisher and Hartwick plus 21 vs RIT.  I'm not sayhing that I don't think that Fisher and RIT won't win, but I truly don't think the scores will be that type of blow-out.  Love to see RIT beat Utica but I think that's wishful thinking too.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 08, 2007, 02:35:56 PM
FRIDAY

Alfred over Elmira +10
Fisher over Ithaca +6
RIT over Hartwick + 9
Naz over Utica +1

Saturday

Ithaca over Alfred +3
Fisher over Elmira +13
Naz over Hartwick + 2
Utica over RIT +5
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on February 08, 2007, 02:56:30 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 08, 2007, 02:08:28 PM
This is major news, I'd say, and something we're going to be seeing more of:

http://www.ritathletics.com/News/mbb/2007/2/8/bb020807.asp?path=mbb

ROCHESTER, NY – The Empire 8 Athletic Conference has announced that it will begin providing free video webcasts of its conference contests in various sports starting with this year's men's and women's basketball championship tournament. The Empire 8 also plans to webcast some of its championship events this spring with the goal of webcasting many regular season contests and conference tournaments starting in the fall of 2007.

"This is an exciting, cutting edge endeavor for our conference membership," said Chuck Mitrano, Empire 8 Commissioner. "Webcasts allow fans, alumni, parents and others close to the conference the ability to watch their teams compete regardless of where they live. The exposure will be great for the membership in so many ways. It's a great technology and one which we have embraced. These basketball championships are just the beginning."

The broadcasts will be run by Penn Atlantic, which was contracted by the NCAA and CBS Sports to video stream some of the NCAA Championships. The webcast will be shown on pennatlantic.com with free viewer registration required. The semifinals will be contested on Friday, February 23rd with the finals on Saturday, Feb. 24th. Exact times will depend upon who hosts the championships. For up-to-date information on the basketball tournament be sure to visit www.Empire8.com.

Agreed. This is the wave of the future.  In the conference I work in now, all the women's conference games are videocast for free on the conference website. The fans and the parents love it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 08, 2007, 03:38:05 PM
Quote from: b4the3isme on February 08, 2007, 02:31:57 PM
Superman- I'd love to get Ithaca plus 19 vs Fisher and Hartwick plus 21 vs RIT.  I'm not sayhing that I don't think that Fisher and RIT won't win, but I truly don't think the scores will be that type of blow-out.  Love to see RIT beat Utica but I think that's wishful thinking too.


I'm sorry fisher only beat Ithaca by 29 last time 13 and 21 last year....

and well RIT has not lost on the road....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 08, 2007, 06:02:24 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 08, 2007, 02:08:28 PM
This is major news, I'd say, and something we're going to be seeing more of:

http://www.ritathletics.com/News/mbb/2007/2/8/bb020807.asp?path=mbb

ROCHESTER, NY – The Empire 8 Athletic Conference has announced that it will begin providing free video webcasts of its conference contests in various sports starting with this year's men's and women's basketball championship tournament. The Empire 8 also plans to webcast some of its championship events this spring with the goal of webcasting many regular season contests and conference tournaments starting in the fall of 2007.

"This is an exciting, cutting edge endeavor for our conference membership," said Chuck Mitrano, Empire 8 Commissioner. "Webcasts allow fans, alumni, parents and others close to the conference the ability to watch their teams compete regardless of where they live. The exposure will be great for the membership in so many ways. It's a great technology and one which we have embraced. These basketball championships are just the beginning."

The broadcasts will be run by Penn Atlantic, which was contracted by the NCAA and CBS Sports to video stream some of the NCAA Championships. The webcast will be shown on pennatlantic.com with free viewer registration required. The semifinals will be contested on Friday, February 23rd with the finals on Saturday, Feb. 24th. Exact times will depend upon who hosts the championships. For up-to-date information on the basketball tournament be sure to visit www.Empire8.com.

That is awesome...great for the league for exposure and visibility. Obviously it is a great deal for the fans, being able to watch games when you can not make it. From a guy who used to live across the country it is a good thing.

Predictions for this weekend:

Friday,

Alfred over Elmira by 18
Fisher over Ithaca by 10
Utica over Naz by 14
RIT over Hartwick by 20

Saturday,
Fisher over Elmira by 100 (more like 25-30)
Ithaca over Alfred by 5
Naz over Hartwick by 4
and RIT over UC by 3...

should be a great weekend with some big games.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 08, 2007, 07:17:35 PM
Alfred over Elmira by 5
Fisher over Ithaca by 20
Hartwick over RIT by 5
Us over Naz by 30

Saturday,
Fisher over Elmira by 37
Alfred over Ithaca by 3
Hartwick over Nazareth by 13
Us over RIT by 15


That's the way I see it!  And well UM we are number 1!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 08, 2007, 07:52:37 PM
Um, guys, you all do realize that Alfred NEVER beats Ithaca at Ithaca, right? I mean, even when they had Docteur, Downey, et al, Ithaca would beat them pretty good in the Bulb. I'm just saying. Something about Ithaca makes Alfred play awful. I'd be surprised if it's under a six-point margin. IC just  matches up well with them.

I understand it's a combination of wishful thinking (Fisher fans) and hatred for Ithaca (clear), but speak with your head, not your heart.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 08, 2007, 09:13:59 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 08, 2007, 07:52:37 PM
Um, guys, you all do realize that Alfred NEVER beats Ithaca at Ithaca, right? I mean, even when they had Docteur, Downey, et al, Ithaca would beat them pretty good in the Bulb. I'm just saying. Something about Ithaca makes Alfred play awful. I'd be surprised if it's under a six-point margin. IC just  matches up well with them.

I understand it's a combination of wishful thinking (Fisher fans) and hatred for Ithaca (clear), but speak with your head, not your heart.

It is probably a lot of both...

That is why I am picking RIT over UC as well...Clear, UC over RIT by 15? not sure about that one..
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 08, 2007, 11:58:41 PM
If you beat naz by 30 then I will change my name to wonderwoman...no way you beat naz by 30 or even 20
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 09, 2007, 08:22:57 AM
gbomb- have to agree with you.  These Fisher guys sometimes go overboard.  I just can't see RIT going into Utica and winning as much as I would like to see that happen. Plus Ithaca seems to be playing well right now.  Certainly well enough to take the 19 points superman is willing to give.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 09, 2007, 08:25:52 AM
I think Naz is going to beat Utica, Naz is due for a good win and played them tough last game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 09, 2007, 08:39:05 AM
So if we listen to FishDyn & the future wonderwomen (superman) Utica with one league loss by a deuce to Ithaca is going to get swept by RIT and Naz playing at home?   My heart would love that but my head and all reasonable logic says NO WAY!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 09, 2007, 09:28:17 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 08, 2007, 07:52:37 PM
Um, guys, you all do realize that Alfred NEVER beats Ithaca at Ithaca, right? I mean, even when they had Docteur, Downey, et al, Ithaca would beat them pretty good in the Bulb. I'm just saying. Something about Ithaca makes Alfred play awful. I'd be surprised if it's under a six-point margin. IC just  matches up well with them.

I understand it's a combination of wishful thinking (Fisher fans) and hatred for Ithaca (clear), but speak with your head, not your heart.

Alfred's motto....Fiat Lux, "Let there be light." Hoping here the Saxons light up the Bulb...just to keep things interesting. But first things first...Alfred 65, Elmira 54.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 11:05:29 AM
No I said Utica was going to beat naz...I just think that RIT has been dominant on the road and will be able to sneak one by utica... and Yes I think Fisher will beat ithaca by double digits...and no there is no chance that anyone beats naz by 30....if you can't beat hartwicl and elmira by 30 than you can't beat a decent naz squad by 30
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 09, 2007, 11:22:54 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 09, 2007, 11:05:29 AM
No I said Utica was going to beat naz...I just think that RIT has been dominant on the road and will be able to sneak one by utica... and Yes I think Fisher will beat ithaca by double digits...and no there is no chance that anyone beats naz by 30....if you can't beat hartwicl and elmira by 30 than you can't beat a decent naz squad by 30

While I don't see Utica beating them by 30, I don't see them losing either. Utica has the target on their backs for the first time, and always get the best effort of the other team every game. They have still managed a 17-3 record despite this. They are both tough teams, but Utica is just more talented and salivating at the chance to host the tournament.

And does anyone really think they couldn't beat elmira and hartwick by 30? This isn't NCAA D-1 Football. Utica doesn't need and doesn't try to run up the score.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 11:49:24 AM
I think anyone could beat Elmira by 30, but hartwick is decent and doesn't get blown out...either does naz and beating RIT by 15 is highly unlikely...GB15 don't makefun of peoples picks...it's opinions I feel that alfred is playing for their post season life and have been half way decent while they get Ithaca after fisher gets Ithaca...and I do think RIT can upset Utica
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 09, 2007, 12:02:51 PM
I know Superman - your prediction was for an RIT win,  FishDyn predicted the Naz win- I lumped you both together to obtain the ultimate LL wishful thinking ( and I must admit that I'm in that category), but logically unless Zeinfeld is hotter than a pistol I don't think RIT can pull it off.  Bacon is extremely consistent but it is a tough task for him to face Ray Bryant and crew in Utica and carry the team.  He'll probably get into early foul trouble which leads me back Zeinfeld must be smoking for an RIT win. That being said I'll root for RIT and Naz but I don't believe my prayers will be answered.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 09, 2007, 12:05:03 PM
I'm with Superman, you shouldn't make fun of peoples pics, unless they are outrageous.  Also, if your going to, atleast dont throw 2-3 peoples pics into one and say utica is predicted to get swept.  Posters believe you utica will come out of this wkend with a loss either to RIT OR Naz.  I think it will be Naz, Naz matches up very well with them and are better inside.  We will see, like UCGrad said, Utica has the X's on their back, thus gets everyones best games, an upset is not that outrageous, especially when i took a 3 in the final 10 seconds to beat Naz the first time. We'll see just a prediction.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 09, 2007, 01:36:49 PM
Hold up. First of all, I've never said anything about anyone's picks that Utica will lose this weekend. So let's get that straight. Second, how am I "making fun" of anyone's picks? I'm just pointing out a relevant fact that Alfred always gets beat at Ithaca. That's just the way it usually goes. I didn't realize people are so sensitive in here. Making fun? You guys have been reading Postup's comments, I think.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 01:41:29 PM
GB15 use that stat all you want but we had the same stat vs. RIT until RIT came and beat us...so while you can use stats some of time your not going to win every game against a team
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 09, 2007, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 09, 2007, 01:41:29 PM
GB15 use that stat all you want but we had the same stat vs. RIT until RIT came and beat us...so while you can use stats some of time your not going to win every game against a team

Did I once say that stats are a be-all, end-all? Never. I'm just pointing out a RELEVANT fact; that is, Alfred doesn't play well in Ithaca and, frankly, it's usually not even that close (sometimes, but not usually). There are always going to be exceptions, but I'm just pointing out what seems to be a trend. Stop being such a nitpicker.

I understand your heart wants Alfred to win because you're subconsciously still hanging onto that flimsy hope that Fisher will be able to catch Utica, Alfred will pass Ithaca, and Fisher will somehow be able to host the E8 tourney. I can already see it in your picks (see RIT beating Utica, Alfred over Ithaca). If that somehow happens, I'm sure that next week you'll have Ithaca getting swept by RIT and Naz, and Fisher beating Utica. It's not gonna happen, buddy, might as well book your hotel room in Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 02:27:59 PM
first off, personally I would rather have the tourny in Utica because I live in Albany now and Utica is an easier drive...secondly next week Ithaca beats RIT but I think they struggle with Naz I won't call that game yet but I do think ithaca struggles against Naz...Yes I do think fisher will beat utica at home... On a friday night in varsity gym...I think Fisher wins a heated contest over utica
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 09, 2007, 02:29:44 PM
For those who are interested in following the IC/Fisher men's and women's games this evening, both will be available on the internet. In addition, you can watch the webcast of each game at http://www.stretchinternet.com/ithaca/video.html . I believe you need to have Quicktime to watch. The men's game will be on WICB and the women's game will be on WVIC. Both stations can be accessed through www.ithaca.edu/radio .
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on February 09, 2007, 03:38:04 PM
Nice little video piece ... 
http://uticaod.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070209/SPORTS/702090322/1030
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 09, 2007, 05:49:22 PM
Quote from: lileyes on February 09, 2007, 03:38:04 PM
Nice little video piece ... 
http://uticaod.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070209/SPORTS/702090322/1030

I am goin to hit up the IC Fisher game tonight...look forward to a good one..
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 09, 2007, 08:17:09 PM
Utica up 19-6 early.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 09, 2007, 08:35:44 PM
Utica up 29-21 at half.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 08:51:22 PM
Fisher 37-27 at half
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 09, 2007, 08:54:08 PM
Lighthall already has 15.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 09, 2007, 08:56:11 PM
Ray finally scores and puts Utica up by 12.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 09, 2007, 08:59:20 PM
Utica can't seem to hit a 3 tonight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 09, 2007, 09:07:25 PM
Any updates on the other games?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 09, 2007, 09:17:02 PM
Utica leads 54-41 with about 6 minutes to go.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 09, 2007, 09:29:12 PM
Utica over naz 65-45. UC clinches a spot in the conference tournament. Lighthall with 22 points.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 09, 2007, 09:53:12 PM
Hartwick beats rit again.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 09, 2007, 10:13:10 PM
Ithaca up on Fisher in OT, 87-85. Four minutes left.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 10:17:08 PM
I shall eat crow on the Ithaca-Fisher Game I was wrong...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 09, 2007, 10:20:46 PM
91-91, headed to double-OT.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 10:21:12 PM
I think they just said 4th OT


yup 4 ot's we are looking at a classic....  Game of the year nomination
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 09, 2007, 10:23:24 PM
Yeah, 4th OT. My bad. I'm drunk. Damn Mardi Gras parades.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 10:23:57 PM
enjoy the alchol and listen to a classic...GB15
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 10:25:16 PM
98-91 fisher 3:00 min left
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 10:26:01 PM
Beigel fouls out
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 09, 2007, 10:26:18 PM
holy smokes what did i miss??? 4 ots???
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 10:29:36 PM
102-92 fisher 145 to play
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 09, 2007, 10:29:51 PM
Superman, you may still get your double-digit win. That, however, won't tell the story of the game. Tough loss for IC. I hope they can regroup and get it together for Alfred.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 10:34:53 PM
I was completly wrong predicting this game...but I think this should help my Alfred prediction tommorow as I can't imagine how either team will be full strength tommorow
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 10:37:36 PM
111-99 4ot's INSTANT CLASSIC....congrats IC you guys played like champs today
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 09, 2007, 10:40:20 PM
If this results in a loss to Alfred, then I would have rather lost by 30 tonight than this.  Worst case scenario here.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 09, 2007, 10:41:46 PM
caz I agree....this game could serve in two ways either IC could come out and play completly flat because of this game and end up out of the tourny...or they could play motivated and make a serious run...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 09, 2007, 11:59:52 PM
just back from the Fisher Ithaca game...

What a game. IC just would not go away. I can hoestly think of 7 or 8 times when I thought Fisher had finally nailed the coffin, and IC just kept answering.

IC is a pretty good team. I can see why they beat UC. The Bostic/Mcsweeny debate can rage on because they had about the same game (Mcsweeny had a few more rebounds) Bostic very clutch with big shots down the stretch.
Thank God Fisher plays Elmira tomorrow after a tough one like that tonight.

Did I see that RIT lost to Hartwick...wow. I hope they can rebound and give UC all they can handle tomorrow. The loss to Hartwick may end up helping Fisher more than anyone...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 10, 2007, 12:23:53 AM
Well - that is 4-0 so far.  Nothing to have me changing my mind.  We absolutely dominated a weak Nazareth team tonight.  They are not in our league at this point.
Looking forward to sweeping RIT tommorrow.  God this feels great!!!!!!!!
By the way I checked out the RIT boxscore and saw the Cocozziello scored 31 PTS.  he is still my player of the year!


Alfred over Elmira by 5
Fisher over Ithaca by 20
Hartwick over RIT by 5
Us over Naz by 30

Saturday,
Fisher over Elmira by 37
Alfred over Ithaca by 3
Hartwick over Nazareth by 13
Us over RIT by 15


That's the way I see it!  And well UM we are number 1!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 10, 2007, 12:32:47 AM
ok you beat naz by 20...I predicted that Utica would win...I think that RIT is gonna be a tough game tommorrow...wow I still can't get over that Ithaca-Fisher game...if anyone knows how I can get this game on dvd or if there is anyway to get a copy of this game please let me know.... wow Ithaca this game is game of the year if not possibly game of the e8 conference...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 10, 2007, 12:37:20 AM
Pat...where does 4 overtimes rank in longest dIII games
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2007, 12:46:51 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 10, 2007, 12:37:20 AM
Pat...where does 4 overtimes rank in longest dIII games

The record is five -- there's been one this year and I want to say five or six all-time to go that long.

http://www.d3hoops.com/news.php?date=2006-11-29
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 10, 2007, 12:54:56 AM
thanks....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2007, 07:51:10 AM
Superman, keep your eye on that stretch internet link that I posted yesterday. It's possible that they will archive the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 10, 2007, 11:23:49 AM
The Fisher/Ithaca game is the game of the year so far...without question. Unbelievable how great that game was. I went to both the Fisher/UC game (double OT) and the Fisher IC game, and the Fisher IC game was a much better game. The game was a much better played game. And, teams made big shots, rather than having teams miss shots to keep the game tied, like the UC/Fisher game.

I honestly hope that game did not wear Ithaca out for today's game against Alfred. I would worry about Fisher but they are playing Elmira. IC played to well last night to lose a game because they are just tired, and lose a spot in the tourny because of it. As a Fisher fan I know it sounds crazy, but after last night, it would just not be right. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2007, 11:45:12 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on February 10, 2007, 11:23:49 AM
The Fisher/Ithaca game is the game of the year so far...without question. Unbelievable how great that game was. I went to both the Fisher/UC game (double OT) and the Fisher IC game, and the Fisher IC game was a much better game. The game was a much better played game. And, teams made big shots, rather than having teams miss shots to keep the game tied, like the UC/Fisher game.

I honestly hope that game did not wear Ithaca out for today's game against Alfred. I would worry about Fisher but they are playing Elmira. IC played to well last night to lose a game because they are just tired, and lose a spot in the tourny because of it. As a Fisher fan I know it sounds crazy, but after last night, it would just not be right. 

Agreed. IC will have to get more out of guys like Stahn and Scanlon who played far fewer minutes in last night's game. Can't really expect Burton/Bostic to carry them after they both played 55+ minutes last night. Never know, though, they are 19 and 20 years old...they can recover quickly. I hope the team all got about 12 hours of sleep last night. We'll see what happens today.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2007, 12:54:03 PM
Just took a look at the RIT/Hartwick box score. Wow, pretty embarrassing loss for the Tigers. RIT led 35-16 with 6 mins left in the first half before allowing the Hawks to close on an 18-4 spurt that left them down only three at half. Also, what a joke RIT's FT shooting has become: 10-25 from the line. C'mon guys, you're college athletes. That's embarrassing. 99% of middle school teams shoot better than that from the line.

In reality, assuming RIT loses at Utica today, their season probably comes down to Friday night's game against Ithaca. If they lose today, their conference record will be 6-6. I will give them the game against Elmira, so now they're 7-6. If they lose the game to the Bombers, they're sitting there at 7-7. Even if Alfred loses today at Ithaca, they will be 6-6; they have Hartwick at home next weekend and I assume that they should be able to take care of them, considering they handled Hartwick in Oneonta (that's not a guarantee, but that's what it would suggest). Alfred will own the tiebreaker because of RIT's losses to Hartwick.

That said, that scenario could be shot to hell if Hartwick beats Naz today and passes them in the standings. In which case, RIT would then hold the tiebreaker by virtue of their season sweep over the Flyers, while the Saxons split with Naz. This should come down to the final day of the season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 10, 2007, 04:30:32 PM
Utica down 4 with about 7 minutes left in the half.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 10, 2007, 04:37:07 PM
I just realized that Bryant has a chance to score 1,000 points in just two seasons.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 10, 2007, 04:44:42 PM
Utica gets a steal but misses 3 shots in the last 7 seconds. They trail by 2 at half.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 10, 2007, 04:49:18 PM
Go RIT
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2007, 04:59:38 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 10, 2007, 04:37:07 PM
I just realized that Bryant has a chance to score 1,000 points in just two seasons.

As he should. Star players can often get to 2,000 if they start all four seasons. Given Bryant's ability when he entered the conference last year, I would have been surprised if he didn't.

In other news, the Bombers start strong against Alfred, taking a 48-31 lead into the locker room. Not showing the effects of last night's game...yet.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2007, 05:02:31 PM
I watched some of the first half and, sorry AUPB, Alfred is terrible. When Stein went out, they had nothing. A bunch of shaggy kids with bad shots. How in the world did they beat Fisher?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 10, 2007, 05:40:07 PM
RIT leads over utica by 3 with like 3 minutes left
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 10, 2007, 05:57:39 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 08, 2007, 01:01:24 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 08, 2007, 12:27:08 PM
Early predictions for this week:

FRIDAY

Alfred over Elmira, 69-56
Fisher over Ithaca, 73-68
RIT over Hartwick, 71-62
Utica over Naz, 83-69

Saturday

Ithaca over Alfred, 67-57
Fisher over Elmira, 71-49
Hartwick over Naz, 80-78 (OT)
Utica over RIT, 74-67

FRIDAY

Alfred over Elmira, 78-56
Fisher over Ithaca, 87-68
RIT over Hartwick, 71-50
Utica over Naz, 83-69

Saturday

Alfred over Ithaca, 66-64
Fisher over Elmira, 88-49
Naz over Hartwick, 66-58)
RIT over Utica, 65-62

So I think there are a couple of people on here who need to eat some yummy crow...my score is almost dead on...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 10, 2007, 06:00:35 PM
rit 66-61...I predicted 65-62...not half bad If I say so my self
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2007, 06:03:41 PM
What about your awesome Alfred pick? That game was close for about, oh, 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 10, 2007, 06:22:46 PM
any news on the Fisher/Elmira score...

Way to go RIT now lose two games next weekend and we are all set.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2007, 06:24:59 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on February 10, 2007, 06:22:46 PM
any news on the Fisher/Elmira score...

Way to go RIT now lose two games next weekend and we are all set.


86-60, Fisher. Wishful thinking about RIT; they still have a home game against Elmira.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 10, 2007, 06:28:46 PM
Yeah I know...I don't expect that one to fall our way...

If Fisher beats UC next weekend it looks like tie for the league championship...and UC would get to host.
Fisher basically has to hope that UC drops two games next weekend..I don't see that happening.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 10, 2007, 06:30:11 PM
Fisher officially in the E8 tournament...Naz and Hartwick officially out.  Ithaca can lock up a place by beating Elmira Tuesday night.  RIT can get the last spot by sweeping IC and EC, splitting and having Alfred lose to either Hartwick or Utica, or Alfred losing twice.  I'd say door #2 is most likely.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2007, 06:39:52 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on February 10, 2007, 06:28:46 PM
Yeah I know...I don't expect that one to fall our way...

If Fisher beats UC next weekend it looks like tie for the league championship...and UC would get to host.
Fisher basically has to hope that UC drops two games next weekend..I don't see that happening.

That Alfred loss is going to be what costs Fisher in the end. I watched the game today on the internet and, at least four times, I wondered to myself how Alfred beat Fisher. I found myself coming up with Superfan scenarios like "maybe Fisher's bus crashed on the way to the game and a bunch of mini-Kornakers had to play Alfred."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 10, 2007, 07:39:03 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 10, 2007, 06:39:52 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on February 10, 2007, 06:28:46 PM
Yeah I know...I don't expect that one to fall our way...

If Fisher beats UC next weekend it looks like tie for the league championship...and UC would get to host.
Fisher basically has to hope that UC drops two games next weekend..I don't see that happening.

That Alfred loss is going to be what costs Fisher in the end. I watched the game today on the internet and, at least four times, I wondered to myself how Alfred beat Fisher. I found myself coming up with Superfan scenarios like "maybe Fisher's bus crashed on the way to the game and a bunch of mini-Kornakers had to play Alfred."

Alfred's win was somehow attributable to the Legendary Alex Yunevich.  It's the only explanation that makes sense.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 10, 2007, 08:09:33 PM
the one mini kornaker can really shoot and would school all the other kids
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 10, 2007, 08:16:10 PM
I was very wrong with the alfred-ithaca pick...but I trully did think that alfred would play halfway decent I guess I was wrong
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2007, 09:00:08 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 10, 2007, 08:16:10 PM
I was very wrong with the alfred-ithaca pick...but I trully did think that alfred would play halfway decent I guess I was wrong

Yeah. Ithaca was definitely the better team, by far. However, Stein didn't help matters by picking up his 1st and 2nd fouls a minute apart with 13 mins left in the first half. Then, to compound the problem, he picked up his 3rd and 4th fouls in the second half within 10 seconds of each other around the 14 minute mark. When he was in the game, you could definitely tell the offense went through him. When he was on the bench, Alfred's offense was anemic.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 10, 2007, 10:07:24 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 10, 2007, 07:39:03 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 10, 2007, 06:39:52 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on February 10, 2007, 06:28:46 PM
Yeah I know...I don't expect that one to fall our way...

If Fisher beats UC next weekend it looks like tie for the league championship...and UC would get to host.
Fisher basically has to hope that UC drops two games next weekend..I don't see that happening.

That Alfred loss is going to be what costs Fisher in the end. I watched the game today on the internet and, at least four times, I wondered to myself how Alfred beat Fisher. I found myself coming up with Superfan scenarios like "maybe Fisher's bus crashed on the way to the game and a bunch of mini-Kornakers had to play Alfred."

Alfred's win was somehow attributable to the Legendary Alex Yunevich.  It's the only explanation that makes sense.

"Tis true. The legendary Coach Alex Yunevich was a defensive genius. And Alfred's defense (It took the Cards 8 1/2 minutes to get their first point, and holding them to 51 points) was the key.  Very perceptive on your part, Caz Bombers...Pep is impressed.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 11, 2007, 09:53:17 AM
Wow, Joe Canori went 7/8 from 3-point land yesterday. Did Mike McGee ever do that?

(Fisher fans, note the tongue-in-cheek sarcasm. I really don't want a 500-word diatribe about how McGee is more valuable than Canori or how Canori would never start on Fisher)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 11, 2007, 12:19:18 PM
McGee and Canori..are very different players, Canori has to carry an average naz team while McGee could be  a dangerous second option behind SOB
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 11, 2007, 12:25:11 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on February 10, 2007, 12:23:53 AM
Well - that is 4-0 so far.  Nothing to have me changing my mind.  We absolutely dominated a weak Nazareth team tonight.  They are not in our league at this point.
Looking forward to sweeping RIT tommorrow.  God this feels great!!!!!!!!
By the way I checked out the RIT boxscore and saw the Cocozziello scored 31 PTS.  he is still my player of the year!


Alfred over Elmira by 5
Fisher over Ithaca by 20
Hartwick over RIT by 5
Us over Naz by 30

Saturday,
Fisher over Elmira by 37
Alfred over Ithaca by 3
Hartwick over Nazareth by 13
Us over RIT by 15


That's the way I see it!  And well UM we are number 1!

Clear, it doesn't look like you were seeing things too well on Saturday, and picking Fisher over Elmira really isn't an accomplishment, especially considering you weren't even close on any of the other games.


Does anyone other than Clear who was at the UC/RIT game have a game report? I already know that Clear's report will be something like "RIT didn't win, UC beat themselves".
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 11, 2007, 12:56:15 PM
from what I heard on the game it was more of Utica shooting themselves and RIT playing well enough to win a close game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 11, 2007, 02:49:48 PM
I was just happy to see RIT finally had a decent game from the FT line, they were 14-17 I believe.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 11, 2007, 03:38:16 PM
I think RIT is going to be a dangerous team in the E8's....and in my opinion we can already say that the tourny will most likely be in Utica, but I think the important thing here is fisher sharing the regular season championship...because that could be exactly what this team needs going into the post season
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 11, 2007, 07:51:35 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 11, 2007, 03:38:16 PM
I think RIT is going to be a dangerous team in the E8's....and in my opinion we can already say that the tourny will most likely be in Utica, but I think the important thing here is fisher sharing the regular season championship...because that could be exactly what this team needs going into the post season

I think this is the first time where each of the four teams will have a legit shot at winning the tournament. The 3rd and 4th place teams have defeated Utica on their home floor and Ithaca was a 4OT game away from also splitting with Fisher. I think the Bombers are really hitting their stride right now, so I wouldn't discount them. When Leahy is hitting his shots, this team is very tough to beat.

I'm not saying each team has an equal shot at winning the tournament. Obviously, the odds are with the home team in a postseason game (regardless of what happens during the season). I'm just saying that, in the past, there were years where the 3rd or 4th seed didn't really have a shot to win the tourney. That's not true this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 11, 2007, 08:04:53 PM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on February 11, 2007, 12:25:11 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on February 10, 2007, 12:23:53 AM
Well - that is 4-0 so far.  Nothing to have me changing my mind.  We absolutely dominated a weak Nazareth team tonight.  They are not in our league at this point.
Looking forward to sweeping RIT tommorrow.  God this feels great!!!!!!!!
By the way I checked out the RIT boxscore and saw the Cocozziello scored 31 PTS.  he is still my player of the year!


Alfred over Elmira by 5
Fisher over Ithaca by 20
Hartwick over RIT by 5
Us over Naz by 30

Saturday,
Fisher over Elmira by 37
Alfred over Ithaca by 3
Hartwick over Nazareth by 13
Us over RIT by 15


That's the way I see it!  And well UM we are number 1!

Clear, it doesn't look like you were seeing things too well on Saturday, and picking Fisher over Elmira really isn't an accomplishment, especially considering you weren't even close on any of the other games.


Does anyone other than Clear who was at the UC/RIT game have a game report? I already know that Clear's report will be something like "RIT didn't win, UC beat themselves".

I called the game and I have to say the Utica played as bad as I have seen them play all season. However, I do not want to take anything away from RIT. They played well and deserved the victory.

They controlled most of the game until the Pioneers went on a run mid second half that turned an 8-point RIT lead into a 5 point UC lead....and to be honest I tole my color guy off the air that the Pioneers had the game in the bag at that point.

Boy was I wrong, the Tigers played very well down the stretch and Tim Bacon who was a non-factor in the first meeting played very well (even made his free throws). Speaking of free throws...I believe RIT's Mark Carson has the worst form from the free throw line that I have ever seen...no exaggeration. Whitwood and Gethers also impressed.

I also believe all four teams will have a chance to win the tourney. I can't wait to call the UC/Fisher game Friday night. I am pumped.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 11, 2007, 08:32:11 PM
I'm making my prediction now after seeing what Utica has done the past couple of weeks I don't think they win the tourny...and right now I think the E8 will be a two bid league, but you never know
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 11, 2007, 09:02:51 PM
I'm puttin my money on Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 11, 2007, 09:07:27 PM
I'm not putting my money on fisher untill I see how they play this weekend...but I just think Utica has lost two league games and both of them have been close games at home...so they have had about 3 close games at home and have lost two
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 11, 2007, 10:00:35 PM
So I didn't go 8-0 oh well.  I'll try again this weekend. 
My money is on US US US US.
We will win on Friday and I will be sipping champaigne as someone OTHER than a Rochester school is officially THE BEST TEAM!

No excuses we got beat but there will be 1 team that get's into the dance not 2.
ANd it will be UTICA.
We will win on Friday
We will win next week in the tournament at where else....... UTICA baby.

See all of you then boys.

God it sure does feel good knowing that a non-Rochester school will win this thing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 11, 2007, 10:16:10 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on February 11, 2007, 10:00:35 PM
So I didn't go 8-0 oh well.  I'll try again this weekend. 
My money is on US US US US.
We will win on Friday and I will be sipping champaigne as someone OTHER than a Rochester school is officially THE BEST TEAM!

No excuses we got beat but there will be 1 team that get's into the dance not 2.
ANd it will be UTICA.
We will win on Friday
We will win next week in the tournament at where else....... UTICA baby.

See all of you then boys.

God it sure does feel good knowing that a non-Rochester school will win this thing.

Just like you were going undefeated a few weeks ago...and just like there is no team on the same level as UC last friday...Better be careful talking about a place you have not won in how many years?

What do you base your one bid prediction on? the fact that Fisher and UC have a difference in the record of 1 loss. So if the unthinkable happens on friday and you lose to a good Fisher team, does that mean that UC is not getting in without an AQ?

Moving on...RIT has played well down the stretch twice against the top teams in the conference in the last 2 weeks. Whoever ends up playing RIT in the tourny better put them away early, because they have proven that they can hit free throws when they need them, and can beat teams in close games.

After this weekend I would say that with out a doubt...Any of the 4 teams can win the tourny. UC is probably the best team, Fisher is Fisher you can never count them out, RIT has beaten the two top teams in the league in two consecutive games, and after seeing what IC did last week against Fisher, and that they have beaten UC on UC's floor, I would say that this will be the most wide open tourny that we have seen.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 11, 2007, 10:43:27 PM
Ok clear so since you say your going to take it all, Utica will now lose...you predicted an huge win over RIT and lost...you predicited a perfect season and went on to choke on a big one against Ithaca...and my guess is you will lose at the varsity gym...Because as everyone has admitted including your own play by play guy...playing at the Varsity gym is a whole new experiance...considering fisher has lost the 3 times in the last 55 games and two of the 3 to major rivals...good luck winning in a place you've NEVER won
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 11, 2007, 10:44:22 PM
A few things...

1) Adam, there's no way that the RIT kid's form is the worst you'll ever see. I suggest watching either Desmond Mason of the Hornets or former McQuaid star Ryan Pettinella of UVa. Mason has hitch in his motion that is reminiscent of Charles Barkley's golf swing. When my girlfriend and I went to a game a few weeks back, she even commented on what awful form he has. He converts about 65% of the time but it is painful to watch. As far as Pettinella goes, his shot is as ugly as you'll see; there's a reason he shoots 26% from the line! His elbow is way out and he does this kind of loopy motion before he releases it. Just terrible.

2) Clear, as they say in Anchorman, why don't you sit a couple of plays out? It seems like each time you espouse UC's greatness, they get beat at home. Might want to lay low for awhile.

3) Also, in my opinion and without the aid of the exact numbers, if Utica shares the league title and doesn't win the E8 Tourney, I don't think they go to the dance. Assuming they lose to Fisher and then lose in the finals of the E8 Tourney (presumably to Fisher, but not necessarily), that would give them a 20-6 record. The records right now of the teams they've lost to would be: Hamilton (16-5), Clarkson (13-10...which hurts even more considering they're 4-8 in conference play), Ithaca (12-10), RIT (13-10), Fisher (18-5), and whoever beats them in the E8 tourney. While none of those are "horrible" losses, that would make for a mediocre resume. Show me the marquee win on Utica's schedule, because I don't see one. I'd say the only "big" win was the 2OT game vs Fisher, but that will be moot if they lose 2 of 3 to the Cards, or maybe even split with them.

Also, you better hope teams like Hamilton and Brockport win their conference tournaments if Utica doesn't. Both Hamilton (scoreboard!) and Brockport (easily a better body of work including victories over Hamilton and SLU, as well as being hotter than a pistol right now) would get at-larges before Utica. Also, if UR finishes 3-0 or 2-1, I think their record (either 19-6 or 18-7), with victories against tough teams, would make for a stronger resume than Utica's.

Keep in mind that Utica continues to lose votes each week. After their loss to RIT, I would not be a bit surprised if Utica is receiving no votes this week. Also, I have to think that given Hamilton and Brockport's hot play of late, they will also be passing the Pioneers in the eyes of voters (which should have happened earlier). Bottom line, I don't think it safe for the Pioneers to think that it can share the league title with Fisher, host the E8 Tourney and expect to get a bid if they don't win the conference tournament. The fact that they made the Sweet 16 will work for them, but only to a certain extent. Voters will only ignore the losses to mediocre teams (IC, RIT) for so long.

Of course, if they exorcise their demons and pull off the minor upset (yeah, I said it, it would be a minor upset) and beat Fisher in that bandbox of a gym, I think UC has a good shot at an at-large bid, provided they make the finals of the E8 Tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 11, 2007, 10:53:56 PM
GB15 I agree with you...the only thing I'm curious about is if fisher beats utica and then loses in the tourny finals what do you do with them...they will then have at least one loss to utica, a loss to an ok RIT team, a Lose to bad Alfred team, and loses to Brockport and UofR, but they also own victories over Brockport and UofR...each of which could be seen as big wins for fisher...but in the end I just don't think fisher can get to the tourny with out wining the E8 tourny
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 11, 2007, 11:16:28 PM
Quote from: Adam the Bull on February 11, 2007, 08:04:53 PM
Speaking of free throws...I believe RIT's Mark Carson has the worst form from the free throw line that I have ever seen...no exaggeration. Whitwood and Gethers also impressed.

What happens when Mark Carson goes to the free throw line has been one of the more enjoyable moments of a crazy RIT season (for me, anyway).  Generally, the rim plays no part in the action, while the backboard gets a good hard hit and some rebounder is lucky their nose doesn't get broken.

The strange this is, he actually shows some decent agility around the rim during the normal course of play.  He's not just a "big white stiff" who can't put the ball in the hoop.  I hope he works on it and gets some confidence.

Someone made reference to RIT performing well in the clutch against both Fisher and Utica, which they did.  But they also blew two games to Hartwick down the stretch.  You just never have any idea what can happen with this team.

When Whitwood, Gethers, and Bacon are all playing well they can hang with Fisher and Utica.  When Zeinfeld puts together a decent scoring night they beat them.  Colin Roy is consistent running the show.


FisherDynasty, Clear -- it's fun to be a superfan and all, but it's hard for any of us to take anything you say seriously with your complete lack of any objectivity.


The E8 tourney has traditionally had a good deal of drama, even when Fisher was heavily favored.  I agree with what looks like the general consensus -- nothing that happens this season will surprise me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 11, 2007, 11:50:33 PM
QuoteFisherDynasty, Clear -- it's fun to be a superfan and all, but it's hard for any of us to take anything you say seriously with your complete lack of any objectivity.
good point...there is something to be said about modesty every once in a while
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 12, 2007, 08:03:34 AM
looks like a big wknd!
Go alma mater!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DR. BELLY HOOPS on February 12, 2007, 08:42:54 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 11, 2007, 08:32:11 PM
I'm making my prediction now after seeing what Utica has done the past couple of weeks I don't think they win the tourny...and right now I think the E8 will be a two bid league, but you never know
well if Utica doesnt win the tourney of course its a two bid league but thats not gonna happen...the fisher game will be a doozey on friday but I think the Pioneers will be ready for blood after a tough loss the other day...I think they win the tourney as well but if they dont it wont be the worst thing in the world...teams usually play better after going to the big dance off a lose in their confrence tourney...did anyone see that special they did on Dennis Munch up in the Utica news?...What a player he is....Horrible haircut but a good story...Adam the Bull I will be listening on friday night and I will see you on the 23rd big guy....          -The Doctor
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 12, 2007, 09:00:15 AM
Doc,
I missed that but did see the 1 hr special on the UC hockey team and Coach Heenan blow multiple gaskets!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 12, 2007, 09:26:26 AM
Quote from: DR. BELLY HOOPS on February 12, 2007, 08:42:54 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 11, 2007, 08:32:11 PM
I'm making my prediction now after seeing what Utica has done the past couple of weeks I don't think they win the tourny...and right now I think the E8 will be a two bid league, but you never know
well if Utica doesnt win the tourney of course its a two bid league but thats not gonna happen...the fisher game will be a doozey on friday but I think the Pioneers will be ready for blood after a tough loss the other day...I think they win the tourney as well but if they dont it wont be the worst thing in the world...teams usually play better after going to the big dance off a lose in their confrence tourney...did anyone see that special they did on Dennis Munch up in the Utica news?...What a player he is....Horrible haircut but a good story...Adam the Bull I will be listening on friday night and I will see you on the 23rd big guy....          -The Doctor

no if Utica loses to Fisher on friday which I do think they will, and they lose in the tourny, they are not going to the NCAA's sorry not going to happen
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 12, 2007, 10:29:09 AM
I don't know what the rest of the East is looking like but for some reason the E8 is feeling more and more like a one bid league.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 12, 2007, 10:46:12 AM
Mr. Chair....Scary but i think you are right on that one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 12, 2007, 11:50:51 AM
If Fisher beats Utica this week, then loses in the E8 champ. they will be in mark my words.  they will have over 20 wins and the losses they have are to good teams.  2 of which they have beat once.  Fisher has wins over much better teams then Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 12, 2007, 11:57:33 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 12, 2007, 11:50:51 AM
If Fisher beats Utica this week, then loses in the E8 champ. they will be in mark my words.  they will have over 20 wins and the losses they have are to good teams.  2 of which they have beat once.  Fisher has wins over much better teams then Utica.

Translation: They will get in based on their reputation.

*I'm not sure, that Alfred loss is a HUGE black eye. The way I see it, there will be 4 or 5 bids for the SUNYAC/LL/E8. If Brockport doesn't win their tourney, I think they're a lock for an at-large so long as they don't slip up in the last week. If Hamilton also loses their conference tourney, I think if it comes down to one at-large bid remaining, here's how I think it goes:

Fisher vs Hamilton- Fisher would get the bid. Not sure why I think that. I think the UR and 'Port wins help and Fisher has the name recognition at this point.

Utica vs Hamilton- I think you have to give it to Hamilton. They won the game on the floor. Then again, Utica and Oswego had the same exact resumes last year and Oswego even ripped Utica during the season and the committee still gave it to Utica. Who knows. This is all irrelevant if Utica wins at Fisher on Friday night; if they do that, they're a lock.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 12, 2007, 01:11:39 PM
This is national QOWI ranking through Saturday's game.

Rank   Points   In-region   Team   Region Win%   Overall
14   10.450   1   Rochester   0.800 (16-4)   16-5
18   10.364   2   St. Lawrence   0.773 (17-5)   18-5
24   10.286   3   Brockport State   0.810 (17-4)   18-4
32   10.045   4   St. John Fisher   0.773 (17-5)   18-5
34   10.000   5   Hamilton   0.722 (13-5)   16-5
45   9.857   6   Utica   0.810 (17-4)   18-4
46   9.850   7   New York University   0.750 (15-5)   16-5
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 12, 2007, 01:33:43 PM
one more loss for either UC or Fisher looks like the last nail....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 12, 2007, 01:43:16 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 12, 2007, 11:57:33 AM
*I'm not sure, that Alfred loss is a HUGE black eye.

Yeah, but you should see what the other guy looks like!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 12, 2007, 01:44:48 PM
Alfred 51, Fisher 50
Fisher 81, Alfred 41

Tough splitting with a team that you've outscored by 39 points overall!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 12, 2007, 01:55:15 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 12, 2007, 01:11:39 PM
This is national QOWI ranking through Saturday's game.

Rank   Points   In-region   Team   Region Win%   Overall
14   10.450   1   Rochester   0.800 (16-4)   16-5
18   10.364   2   St. Lawrence   0.773 (17-5)   18-5
24   10.286   3   Brockport State   0.810 (17-4)   18-4
32   10.045   4   St. John Fisher   0.773 (17-5)   18-5
34   10.000   5   Hamilton   0.722 (13-5)   16-5
45   9.857   6   Utica   0.810 (17-4)   18-4
46   9.850   7   New York University   0.750 (15-5)   16-5

This makes it look more like the E8 could, in fact, be a two-bid league.  Something totally unquantifiable tells me that the parity makes the league look bad, not good.  Pat, you out there?  Any thoughts on the number of E8 bids?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 12, 2007, 02:43:20 PM
I think it's a case of where the East region isn't all that good nationally (but would we know for sure? none of us ever play the Woosters, Wittenbergs, Wheatons, etc.) but the committee levels everything out by taking that QOWI and regional rankings as practically the word of a higher power.

As for two bids...my gut says the opposite of The Chairman.  I think whichever of UC or SJF doesnt win the A bid will get in also.

How bout this?  What if Ithaca or RIT sneaks away with the E8 tourney title?  What then for Fisher and Utica?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 12, 2007, 03:01:20 PM
Highly doubt there will be 2 teams going fro our league.  But have no fear Utica is here baby.  Yeah I am confident - nothing wrong with that.

Anything can happen but it is destiny this season.  The reign of the Rochester schools is ending.  ANd its just going to be so special to see all 3 Rchy schools sitting home in a few weeks and UTICA in the NCAA Tournament.

And the league awards are.....

Player of the year: Cocozziello
Runner-up: Bryant

Coach of the year: Goodemote
Runner-up: McVeign (not sure on the spelling) but anyone that beats us at home deserves a vote or 2.

New Comer of the year: McAdams

Can't wait for Friday, I just might go up to see the big victory.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 12, 2007, 03:40:11 PM
Naz was up 20 on Wheaton this year and blew it to lose by 1 or 2 points.  I talked to people that saw the game, and they said wheaton was not close to as good as Fisher this year. I agree with most of the rest of the nation that the East region is weaker then most of the rest, however the top programs are in the same league and could beat many of them having the chance.  Its almost like a lose lose situation for the East, in that even if they win around here and come out fo the region to advance to the finals, they will always be considered weak.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 12, 2007, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on February 12, 2007, 03:01:20 PM
Highly doubt there will be 2 teams going fro our league.  But have no fear Utica is here baby.  Yeah I am confident - nothing wrong with that.

Anything can happen but it is destiny this season.  The reign of the Rochester schools is ending.  ANd its just going to be so special to see all 3 Rchy schools sitting home in a few weeks and UTICA in the NCAA Tournament.

And the league awards are.....

Player of the year: Cocozziello
Runner-up: Bryant

Coach of the year: Goodemote
Runner-up: McVeign (not sure on the spelling) but anyone that beats us at home deserves a vote or 2.

New Comer of the year: McAdams

Can't wait for Friday, I just might go up to see the big victory.

Your not confident, your cocky, Coco Crisp will not win POY because when ever he has needed to step up he has choked, if Utica splits the conference championship I do not see goodemote winning COY, who wins I really don't know...I like the McAdams pick, but I also think Baltz and Newman should garner some votes
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 12, 2007, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 12, 2007, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on February 12, 2007, 03:01:20 PM
Highly doubt there will be 2 teams going fro our league.  But have no fear Utica is here baby.  Yeah I am confident - nothing wrong with that.

Anything can happen but it is destiny this season.  The reign of the Rochester schools is ending.  ANd its just going to be so special to see all 3 Rchy schools sitting home in a few weeks and UTICA in the NCAA Tournament.

And the league awards are.....

Player of the year: Cocozziello
Runner-up: Bryant

Coach of the year: Goodemote
Runner-up: McVeign (not sure on the spelling) but anyone that beats us at home deserves a vote or 2.

New Comer of the year: McAdams

Can't wait for Friday, I just might go up to see the big victory.

Your not confident, your cocky, Coco Crisp will not win POY because when ever he has needed to step up he has choked, if Utica splits the conference championship I do not see goodemote winning COY, who wins I really don't know...I like the McAdams pick, but I also think Baltz and Newman should garner some votes

A few things wrong with that post...

1) I hate to rehash, but Cocozziello has a good chance to win E8 POY. There are two camps on this board re: Cocozziello's candidacy for POY. There's the one group who doesn't think he warrants consideration simply because he is on a bad team. That group says, "how good can he be, they've only won three games!" Then there's the other camp, which includes me, that thinks he should be the POY because he's pretty much flying solo on that team and still putting up the best numbers in the conference. I say, "the ONLY reason this team has any wins in this conference is because of him." In conference games, he is scoring 3 pts more per game than the second leading scorer in the league (Canori-19.8 ppg). Do you have any idea of how hard that must be considering he is THE focus of EVERY team they ever play against! You try to score 22/game playing against a box-and-one or double-teams each time down the floor. I don't think there's anyone else in this league who could do that and, thus, he is the best player in the league and is deserving of the POY. If you even want to make the argument that he's not the most valuable player in the league, I'd disagree with you there. I think if you replaced him with an average player in this conference, Hartwick would win zero conference games. That's a three game drop-off. I don't think you could take any other team's top player, replace him with an average player and see that much of a drop-off.

2) Who has he choked against? Are you referring to the fact that he's unable to beat Fisher, Utica and Ithaca? Funny how that works. When a guy is pretty much playing one-on-five, I'll take the five more times than not. Ask RIT about what a choke he is. He singlehandedly brought them back in the first half after RIT opened up a 19-point lead, helping Hartwick get it down to four before break. Also, he brought Hartwick back from a double-digit deficit in Rochester when 'Wick beat RIT the first time around. Yeah, what a choker! Really can't get it done when his team's back is against the wall.

He averaged over 33 ppg against the Tigers in Hartwick's sweep of RIT. Ithaca isn't going to sweep RIT. Utica didn't sweep RIT. Fisher didn't sweep RIT. I just think your statement about him "choking when it matters most" is completely unfounded, not backed up by any evidence and just plain wrong.

3) McAdam will likely get the award for ROY based on his numbers. However, I don't think Baltz or Newman will get ANY consideration for the award. This is a two horse race between McAdam and Leahy of Ithaca. Leahy was just named Rookie of the Week today for the FIFTH time this season. McAdam has been named Rookie of the Week 3.5 times and Baltz .5 times (shared the award with Elmira's Nick Woitach); Newman's name is absent from the list. McAdam deserves the award based on the fact that he's more of a true rookie than Leahy and has put up disgusting numbers. That said, I wouldn't be that surprised if Leahy won the award. He's also won the Rookie of the Week award the most times since conference play has started; that's when it matters. Conference play will be given more weight than OOC games. If anyone gets a vote for ROY besides Leahy and McAdam (and it would surprise me if anyone does), it will be Kenny Gethers of RIT; not Baltz or Newman.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 12, 2007, 06:01:00 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 12, 2007, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on February 12, 2007, 03:01:20 PM
Highly doubt there will be 2 teams going fro our league.  But have no fear Utica is here baby.  Yeah I am confident - nothing wrong with that.

Anything can happen but it is destiny this season.  The reign of the Rochester schools is ending.  ANd its just going to be so special to see all 3 Rchy schools sitting home in a few weeks and UTICA in the NCAA Tournament.

And the league awards are.....

Player of the year: Cocozziello
Runner-up: Bryant

Coach of the year: Goodemote
Runner-up: McVeign (not sure on the spelling) but anyone that beats us at home deserves a vote or 2.

New Comer of the year: McAdams

Can't wait for Friday, I just might go up to see the big victory.

Your not confident, your cocky, Coco Crisp will not win POY because when ever he has needed to step up he has choked, if Utica splits the conference championship I do not see goodemote winning COY, who wins I really don't know...I like the McAdams pick, but I also think Baltz and Newman should garner some votes

I am starting to think that whoever wins the tourny may win coach of the year...Think about it if UC wins doodemote will have basically led a team wire to wire to win the league and AQ. pretty impresive. If Fisher wins then, in a rebuilding year, Kornaker would have taken a team back to the NCAA's. Also impressive. If RIT or IC wins, it will be the underdog story pulling off the amazing run to get a team into the tourny. All would be great stories for coach of the year.

I am taking Kornaker, but that is because I have a huge bias, and that I think Fisher will win the E8 tourny. that is what my heart says. My mind is still unsure.
Should be interesting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 12, 2007, 06:07:34 PM
I think that while coco is a great player he scored 6 points in a game against utica that if he had played better they could have won.... he scored 10 in a game against ithaca...I think it goes to Doug Herring or Ray...because I think the voters are going to have the same disscusion we are and he's going to lose votes because of the fact that they have only won 3 conference games and will finish with maybe 4 wins
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 12, 2007, 06:17:23 PM
Gethers is a junior, played at Houghton then at a JUCO last season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 12, 2007, 06:34:51 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 12, 2007, 06:17:23 PM
Gethers is a junior, played at Houghton then at a JUCO last season.

Caz, I think he still qualifies as a rookie, though. Why else would the league have given him the Rookie of the Week award?

I've kind of cooled off on Herring. Look at his numbers relative to Burton's and Mueller's and I think you'll be surprised. I was.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 12, 2007, 07:08:28 PM
from what I've read on the internet, both on this site and Fisher's website, if Fisher wins 2 this weekened, then they host next weekend? Is that true?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on February 12, 2007, 07:24:41 PM
I have been away for sometime but i just caught the scores for this weekend.  Fisher/Ithaca sounded like an exciting game.  Question how does Fisher win by double digits in the fourth overtime.  Good to see that even in a down year Fisher still sweeps Ithaca (I'm aware that comment could haunt me come tournament time).  It appears as though the E8 tourney its going to be up for grabs for this first time since its inception.  I still believe Fisher can pull it off however.  

Coco should get player of the year because he is so dominate hes shooting overall 43% from the field to go along with his negative assist to turnover ratio and his awesome winning percentage.  Actually, now that I had to look at Hartwicks stats a questions comes to mind.  Who is Cory Carlson, he actually seems like he might be alright, 13.6 ppg, 48.6% shooting, atleast a positive assist to turnover ratio and he boards it.  Has anyone seen him play and can vouch for that stats he puts up.  Just curious

Moving along.  Bryant should get POY--Hard to not give him considering hes almost avg. a double double and his team will inebitably win the regular season

ROY-Toss up, earlier I would have said hands down Cory Mc but Leahy might steal it
COY-Still up for grabs

lastly, Only one team from the E8 will go to the NCAA's simply because the E8 teams just didnt get enough done when they played out of schedule.  Could argue that Fisher might get in if Utica wins the tourney but I think their 29 pt loss to U of R could cancel out the win they had previous.  If Fisher or anyother team wins aside from Utica I doubt Utica will get in.  There resume, keeps getting worse.  There only chance to improve that would be to take Fisher down at Varisty gym.  Anyways, looks like an exciting final weeks of E8 play
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on February 12, 2007, 07:26:44 PM
Unless Utica drops 2 this weekend (shouldnt happen) Utica will host because Utica's losses are not as bad as Fishers (Mainly the Alfred Loss) and thats how the winner of the E8 is determined...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 12, 2007, 08:29:22 PM
a) it still depends on what Ithaca does, and if Alfred can some how pull off another astronomical upset and beat utica...(which will probably never happen) If ithaca chokes the chicken and loses both games this weekend which is a possibility and alfred splits then alfred gets in the tourny and the tourny is at fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 12, 2007, 09:06:46 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 12, 2007, 08:29:22 PM
a) it still depends on what Ithaca does, and if Alfred can some how pull off another astronomical upset and beat utica...(which will probably never happen) If ithaca chokes the chicken and loses both games this weekend which is a possibility and alfred splits then alfred gets in the tourny and the tourny is at fisher

How would Alfred make it over Ithaca if both finish 8-6. Ithaca swept them. That's absurd. Even in the event of a three-way tie between RIT/IC/Alfred (though that will never happen because if you're assuming RIT beats Ithaca, you'd also have to assume RIT loses to Elmira...fat chance), RIT has a 3-1 record against the other two, IC would have a 2-2 record, and Alfred will have a 1-3 record. I don't think there's any scenario that puts Alfred in over Ithaca. I think the only way Alfred gets in is to come in a tie with only RIT. I'm pretty sure that if IC wins tomorrow at Elmira, there is no mathematical way that Alfred can finish ahead of IC in the standings. Hence, Fisher's only chance would be to hope that Utica drops both this weekend. Book your hotel rooms in Utica.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 12, 2007, 09:18:02 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 12, 2007, 09:06:46 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 12, 2007, 08:29:22 PM
a) it still depends on what Ithaca does, and if Alfred can some how pull off another astronomical upset and beat utica...(which will probably never happen) If ithaca chokes the chicken and loses both games this weekend which is a possibility and alfred splits then alfred gets in the tourny and the tourny is at fisher

How would Alfred make it over Ithaca if both finish 8-6. Ithaca swept them. That's absurd. Even in the event of a three-way tie between RIT/IC/Alfred (though that will never happen because if you're assuming RIT beats Ithaca, you'd also have to assume RIT loses to Elmira...fat chance), RIT has a 3-1 record against the other two, IC would have a 2-2 record, and Alfred will have a 1-3 record. I don't think there's any scenario that puts Alfred in over Ithaca. I think the only way Alfred gets in is to come in a tie with only RIT. I'm pretty sure that if IC wins tomorrow at Elmira, there is no mathematical way that Alfred can finish ahead of IC in the standings. Hence, Fisher's only chance would be to hope that Utica drops both this weekend. Book your hotel rooms in Utica.



Agreed. The only way that Fisher can get the tourny is to have AU finish ahead of IC...to do that they have to win two games, which would give Fisher the championship outright.
Basically Fisher can secure a tie for the league title with a 2-0 weekend. However, they should be ready to play the tourny in Utica. As much as Fisher would love to play at home, I don't think they are scared of playing at UC for the tourny. They could have very easily beat UC already in their gym, and UC has struggled at home recently. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 12, 2007, 09:43:57 PM
I looked at the standings and ya there is no way unless utica chokes on both games...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2007, 01:53:32 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 12, 2007, 01:55:15 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 12, 2007, 01:11:39 PM
This is national QOWI ranking through Saturday's game.

Rank   Points   In-region   Team   Region Win%   Overall
14   10.450   1   Rochester   0.800 (16-4)   16-5
18   10.364   2   St. Lawrence   0.773 (17-5)   18-5
24   10.286   3   Brockport State   0.810 (17-4)   18-4
32   10.045   4   St. John Fisher   0.773 (17-5)   18-5
34   10.000   5   Hamilton   0.722 (13-5)   16-5
45   9.857   6   Utica   0.810 (17-4)   18-4
46   9.850   7   New York University   0.750 (15-5)   16-5

This makes it look more like the E8 could, in fact, be a two-bid league.  Something totally unquantifiable tells me that the parity makes the league look bad, not good.  Pat, you out there?  Any thoughts on the number of E8 bids?

This depends on what happens elsewhere, but Utica got in with a 9.6-something QOWI last year. Utica can't afford a loss, but St. John Fisher can afford one, most likely.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 13, 2007, 08:49:17 AM
Exactly what i said, Fisher can take one loss to utica out of their two future possible matchups. Utica, has no good wins and will probably have to win both.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 13, 2007, 10:15:59 AM
Well, the win over Fisher is important in terms of their QOWI.  Also, RIT and Ithaca are going to remain above .500 in region, which is important for keeping their QOWI.

Fisher caught Brockport and Rochester early in the season before they got on their respective rolls and pulled out victories, which is why their QOWI is looking so good right now.

I don't think they are better than Brockport, Rochester, or Utica this season.  But it will be important for Brockport and Utica to win down the stretch to ensure Fisher doesn't get in the dance in front of them.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 13, 2007, 10:31:49 AM
And a hush comes over the Utica crowd...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 13, 2007, 11:53:49 AM
Bamm, Bport beat fisher first and took fullll advantage of their very young guards to get the win, fisher Beat them second.  Dont forget bport was also rolling earlier in the season.  UofR is always a team that improves as the season goes on so i will go with ya on that one.  Also, Fisher is getting better and better as time goes on, newman and baltz are finally starting to play to their potential.  When they are hitting their shots they can beat anyone in the region.  Do i think fisher is the best team in the region, no.  I think it would be NYU or UofR however, due to their tough schedule, it is very likely both will not get in, maybe neither.  I also agree that both utica and bport need to finish strong to get in ahead of uofr.  Fisher has the best quality wins out of both of them.  The one alfred loss really hurts tho.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 13, 2007, 12:55:01 PM
FD - Brockport is a much better team now than they were in December and early January, when both games with Fisher were played (yes, the teams split).  This has been talked about extensively on the SUNYAC board if you want details on the Golden Eagles.

This worked out for Fisher - as I said, I think they would have a lot of trouble beating Port now and their QOWI benefits from the run the Eagles have gone on. 


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 13, 2007, 01:21:54 PM
Yeah im sure they are better, but so is Fisher.  especially the first game of the year, when the freshmen looked like they were going to curl up in the corner.  However, i do think bport is probably the better team but the way they play, they can be beat by a lot of teams, and also can beat probably anybody when they are hitting their shots.  Either way, I think they will get in even if they lose the sunyacs this year, unless they lose a game prior to the tourny as well as in the tourny.  The one fisher win that is huge is Geneseo. They will have the edge over them, so i think if bport wins the sunyac tourny, fisher will get the at large over any other sunyac team.  The liberty league is a weak league, I think they will get one team in.  The close of the season should be interesting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 13, 2007, 02:39:18 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 13, 2007, 11:53:49 AM
Fisher has the best quality wins out of both of them.  The one alfred loss really hurts tho.

The way I understand QOWI, the Alfred loss doesn't hurt at all.  It hurts the selection committee's general perception of Fisher but QOWI stands for Quality of Wins Index. Thus, a win over Alfred wouldn't have really improved Fisher's QOWI significantly so the absence of a win over Alfred doesn't really lower it.  But, I am no QOWI guru, we need Frank Rossi to look at this.

Presumably, all the E8 teams are better now than they were in December since they are all very young.  That is certainly true of Ithaca whose sophomores are improving by the hours it seems.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 13, 2007, 03:01:51 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 13, 2007, 02:39:18 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 13, 2007, 11:53:49 AM
Fisher has the best quality wins out of both of them.  The one alfred loss really hurts tho.

The way I understand QOWI, the Alfred loss doesn't hurt at all.  It hurts the selection committee's general perception of Fisher but QOWI stands for Quality of Wins Index. Thus, a win over Alfred wouldn't have really improved Fisher's QOWI significantly so the absence of a win over Alfred doesn't really lower it.  But, I am no QOWI guru, we need Frank Rossi to look at this.

Presumably, all the E8 teams are better now than they were in December since they are all very young.  That is certainly true of Ithaca whose sophomores are improving by the hours it seems.

Losses count as well, and losses to bad teams hurt.  Here's the formula.  Keep in mind, this is in-region only.

Win on the road versus a team at or above .667...............................15 points
Win at home versus a team at or above .667 ....................................14 points
Win on the road versus a team at or above .500, but below .667 ....13 points
Win at home versus a team at or above .500, but below .667..........12 points
Win on the road versus a team at or above .333, but below .500 ....11 points
Win at home versus a team at or above .333, but below .500..........10 points
Win on the road versus a team below .333 ..........................................9 points
Win at home versus a team below .333 ...............................................8 points
Loss on the road versus a team at or above .667................................7 points
Loss at home versus a team at or above .667.....................................6 points
Loss on the road versus a team at or above .500, but below .667.....5 points
Loss at home versus a team at or above .500, but below .667 ..........4 points
Loss on the road versus a team at or above .333, but below .500.....3 points
Loss at home versus a team at or above .333, but below .500 ..........2 points
Loss on the road versus a team below .333...........................................1 point
Loss at home versus a team below .333..............................................0 points
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 13, 2007, 04:03:37 PM
my prediction is that elmira shocks the world tonight....













and loses by less then 20
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 13, 2007, 05:52:38 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 13, 2007, 04:03:37 PM
my prediction is that elmira shocks the world tonight....



and loses by less then 20

Jokes. I almost thought you had lost your sanity there for a second.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 13, 2007, 05:55:10 PM
I'm stupid but not on point with clear and postup
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 13, 2007, 06:22:39 PM
FishDyn- I'm interested in why you think the Liberty League is a weak league? Clarkson a 4-8 LL team has wins over Utica, RIT and RIT lost to SLU also. I haven't seen a lot of e-8 teams this year, but they haven't exactly been bowling over regional competition.  Of the 3 leagues you mention the one that might be the weakest (other than B-port and possibly Plattsburg) might be the SUNYAC.  Geneseo is slumping of late, the rest of the teams seem very mediocre.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2007, 06:25:20 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 13, 2007, 02:39:18 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 13, 2007, 11:53:49 AM
Fisher has the best quality wins out of both of them.  The one alfred loss really hurts tho.

The way I understand QOWI, the Alfred loss doesn't hurt at all.  It hurts the selection committee's general perception of Fisher but QOWI stands for Quality of Wins Index. Thus, a win over Alfred wouldn't have really improved Fisher's QOWI significantly so the absence of a win over Alfred doesn't really lower it.  But, I am no QOWI guru, we need Frank Rossi to look at this.

Geez -- don't assume. This information is available all over the place.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: jdex on February 13, 2007, 06:52:10 PM
Actually, Geneseo is finding itself again after losing five straight. Knights regained some key bodies from injured list. Took out streaking Plattsburgh rather handsomely. SUNYAC as expected has shown bit of spunk in stretch run. Bport top dog and currently flexing muscle aplenty. Port tonight visits SUNYIT (Utica Tech for unitiated) and that outfit can certainly play. Has outstanding players all over the place including two of league's best in Reaves and LaBoard. Oswego another dangerous crew although loss of odds-on POY guard N. Perioli before season major blow
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Razor on February 13, 2007, 07:26:47 PM
I wouldn't want to have to meet up with a healthy Geneseo team come playoff time.  They have experience and depth and could be the dark horse of the Sunyac tourny.  Bport is Bport and Plattsburgh and Oswego also have some serious offensive firepower.  I would have to say that 4-7 in YAC are just as good, if not better than 3-4 in the E8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 13, 2007, 07:33:25 PM
Quote from: Razor on February 13, 2007, 07:26:47 PM
I wouldn't want to have to meet up with a healthy Geneseo team come playoff time.  They have experience and depth and could be the dark horse of the Sunyac tourny.  Bport is Bport and Plattsburgh and Oswego also have some serious offensive firepower.  I would have to say that 4-7 in YAC are just as good, if not better than 3-4 in the E8.

Well, everyone thought the SUNYAC was better than the E8 last year, too, and it did not turn out that way. The E8's third best team beat a very good, experienced Oswego club for the ECAC crown.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 13, 2007, 09:28:31 PM
be4the3some, actually your probably right now that i look at the LL a little deeper.  They have been a pretty solid league.  its tough to compare all 3 leagues, they are all  different.  I have not seen st lawrence play yet this year, and they are one of the better teams in the LL, so i should have judged the league.  It just seems that league has a lot of parity, hobart beating good teams, vassar being good this year, hamilton losing to skidmore, idk, its either they are all pretty good, or all not that good.  excluding st. lawrence, hamilton supposedly has the most talent, which they do have a lot of talent.  But, they seem a little young at the guard spot, and usually dont play much defense.  idk i guess hamilton and st. lawrence as of right now both have the same shot that utica and fisher have at getting in the tourny.  I just feel that utica having only 4 losses instead of 5 as of now, and fisher having better wins then both of them, the E8 tourny wise, has the edge.  The only team that can get an at large from the sunyacs is bport, all the other teams have too many losses or will have by selection time. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 13, 2007, 10:38:59 PM
As expected, Ithaca coasts by Elmira, 86-68. The visiting Bombers take a 53-33 lead into the locker room and put it on cruise control from there. Jeff Bostic leads the way with 23 points and 7 rebs. Sean Leahy continues his solid play with 14 and 7. Ithaca has five other players score between six and eleven. Elmira is led by KC Mendez and Joe Prunier who both scored 12.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 13, 2007, 10:55:18 PM
so my 20 point prediction was pretty good
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 13, 2007, 11:20:46 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 13, 2007, 10:55:18 PM
so my 20 point prediction was pretty good


As soon as I saw the score, I KNEW that was the first thing you were going to say. I'm pretty sure if IC really wanted to throttle them by about 30, they could have. No point in running up the score. Mullins tries to avoid that it at all possible.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 13, 2007, 11:39:36 PM
I was being sarcastic gb15, we all know any team in the league could beat elmira by 50 if they left the starters in the game for the entire game and ran the score up
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 14, 2007, 03:19:08 PM
FishDyn- now we're more on the same page, but Hobart did it again last night-beating Hamilton.  I saw both teams up North this weekend vs Clarkson and I would have bet the house that Hobart couldn't beat SLU and Hamilton on the road in back to back games.  Fortunately there were no takers.  Of course with the loss to Hamilton I believe that the Liberty League now has only a very outside chance at a second NCAA bid.  Perhaps those of you more versused in QOWI can tell me but I have to believe a loss at home to a weak opponent like Hobart in effect may mean that Hamilton must win the tournament.  And while you are at it where exactly are these rankings?  I googled QOWI and quality of wins index and all I could find were 2006 rankings from Feb?  Is there a direct site that lists team from top to bottom?  Any help to a computer iliterate would be gratefully appreciated!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on February 14, 2007, 04:01:21 PM
It looks like if Fisher wins out this weekend they will host the tournament. This is according to fishers web site
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 14, 2007, 04:38:40 PM
Quote from: GPT on February 14, 2007, 04:01:21 PM
It looks like if Fisher wins out this weekend they will host the tournament. This is according to fishers web site

Looks like that is the case. I just looked up the tiebreaker and here it is:

The tie-breakers shall be as follows, in order:

1-Head-to-head record

2-Best record vs. subsequent finishers in descending order beginning with the 1st place team

3-Road record vs. conference opponents

4-NCAA strength of schedule index within region
__________________________________________________

Jumping to #2, given that Fisher is 2-0 vs currently third-placed Ithaca, while Utica is only 1-1 vs the Bombers, that would be the difference. Even if RIT displaces Ithaca for third place, it would still jump to Ithaca because both teams are 1-1 against RIT in conference play.

Also, under this tiebreaker, there is still an outside chance that IC may not make the tournament. For that to happen, Ithaca would have to lose both games this weekend while Alfred defeats Hartwick AND Utica. If both finish 8-6, Alfred would hold the tiebreaker under #2 by virtue of their 1-1 record against Fisher.

RIT and Ithaca both only need win one game this weekend and they're in.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 14, 2007, 05:25:07 PM
GB15--

Ithaca is in already.  Even if they and Alfred both finish 8-6, IC swept the Saxons.  Alfred's win over Fisher would be irrelevant.  For it to be a 2-way tie for 4th, RIT need only beat Elmira at home to take the #3 seed outright at 9-5.

If it's a 3-way tie at 8-6 for 2 spots, Ithaca would be 2-2 against RIT/AU, RIT 3-1 against IC/AU and Alfred 1-3 against IC/RIT.  That puts RIT in as the #3 seed and Ithaca as the #4 seed  with either the 2-2/1-3 tiebreaker or the season sweep of Alfred tiebreaker.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 14, 2007, 05:33:17 PM
so it's very possible that fisher hosts the tourny...Cool... Sucks to be utica this weekend
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 14, 2007, 05:34:18 PM
Quote from: b4the3isme on February 14, 2007, 03:19:08 PM
FishDyn- now we're more on the same page, but Hobart did it again last night-beating Hamilton.  I saw both teams up North this weekend vs Clarkson and I would have bet the house that Hobart couldn't beat SLU and Hamilton on the road in back to back games.  Fortunately there were no takers.  Of course with the loss to Hamilton I believe that the Liberty League now has only a very outside chance at a second NCAA bid.  Perhaps those of you more versused in QOWI can tell me but I have to believe a loss at home to a weak opponent like Hobart in effect may mean that Hamilton must win the tournament.  And while you are at it where exactly are these rankings?  I googled QOWI and quality of wins index and all I could find were 2006 rankings from Feb?  Is there a direct site that lists team from top to bottom?  Any help to a computer iliterate would be gratefully appreciated!!

Pat and others keep up a fairly lively discussion on QOWI on the Multi-Regional Topics board.  There is a thread called "QOWI".  You can find the QOWI rankings, updated regularly, there.

Quote from: GPT on February 14, 2007, 04:01:21 PM
It looks like if Fisher wins out this weekend they will host the tournament. This is according to fishers web site

Part of me is happy the E8 fixed the ludicrous tiebreaking system to something more reasonable.  But another part of me is miffed they did it just in time to help Fisher.  Dammit.

I still think Utica is good enough, or more to the point, Fisher's dominance has waned enough, that homecourt advantage for them in the E8 tourney is not a nail in the coffin for the other teams like it has been in the past.  Obviously, they can be beaten there by any of Utica, RIT, or Ithaca.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 14, 2007, 05:39:09 PM
Bamm, while I agree that the aura of the Varsity gym isn't what it has been in the past....it is still the toughest place in the E8 to play, and teams still have a hard time winning there
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 14, 2007, 05:49:42 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 14, 2007, 05:39:09 PM
Bamm, while I agree that the aura of the Varsity gym isn't what it has been in the past....it is still the toughest place in the E8 to play, and teams still have a hard time winning there

I agree. That said, I think if Fisher played Ithaca ten times there this year, IC could win at least twice. In the past, I would say that it would take Ithaca like 25 or 30 games to win two games on Fisher's court. I really want to see RIT/Fisher IV. That said, I don't think Fisher or RIT fans really want to see that game. If IC beats RIT and Fisher knocks off Utica, though, it will likely happen, assuming Ithaca doesn't get upset at Naz.

Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 14, 2007, 05:25:07 PM
GB15--

Ithaca is in already.  Even if they and Alfred both finish 8-6, IC swept the Saxons.  Alfred's win over Fisher would be irrelevant.  For it to be a 2-way tie for 4th, RIT need only beat Elmira at home to take the #3 seed outright at 9-5.

If it's a 3-way tie at 8-6 for 2 spots, Ithaca would be 2-2 against RIT/AU, RIT 3-1 against IC/AU and Alfred 1-3 against IC/RIT.  That puts RIT in as the #3 seed and Ithaca as the #4 seed  with either the 2-2/1-3 tiebreaker or the season sweep of Alfred tiebreaker.

Yeah, brain was not functioning properly when I said that. That's pretty much verbatim what I posted a couple of days ago, but I seemed to have forgotten that.

It sounds as if Alfred has been eliminated, no? RIT would hold the #2 tiebreaker because they will have at least one win over Ithaca. Sounds like the Saxons are out and IC and RIT are just jockeying for seeding.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 14, 2007, 05:52:47 PM
As a result of this new information regarding tiebreakers, here are the scenarios that I've worked out:

Utica gets #1 seed by beating Fisher OR (win over Alfred plus SJF loss to Hartwick) - otherwise UC is #2 seed

Fisher gets #1 seed with win over Utica AND (win over Hartwick OR Utica loss to Alfred) - otherwise SJF is #2 or #3 seed

Ithaca gets #2 seed with 2 wins AND 2 Fisher losses - otherwise IC is #3 or #4 seed.

RIT clinches #4 seed with 1 win OR 1 Alfred loss; clinches #2 seed with 2 wins and 2 Fisher losses; clinches #3 seed with 2 wins OR (win over Ithaca AND Ithaca loss to Naz)

Alfred clinches #4 seed with 2 wins AND 2 RIT losses

Basically, the Saxons need a total miracle since I can't conceive of RIT losing at home to Elmira with their season on the line.

Utica-SJF tie favors SJF due to sweep of Ithaca

Utica-Ithaca tie favors UC due to win over Fisher

SJF-Ithaca tie favors SJF due to season sweep

SJF-RIT tie favors RIT due to win over Utica

Ithaca-RIT tie favors RIT due to projected season sweep

Ithaca-Alfred tie favors IC due to season sweep

RIT-Alfred tie favors RIT due to win over Utica or win over Ithaca
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 14, 2007, 07:23:13 PM
Bamm- thanks for the directions to the QOWI.. its fasinating ... always been a stat nut but by comparison to the guys over there I'm at 2 + 2 and they're into quantum physics!!   May have met you at Laker/Tiger ECAC game last year with my son?  Did Cols introduce us? Anyway I would love to see the Tigers pull some upsets!!  Just love Bacon and still have fondness for the Tigers. SJF is tough at home though so if they win against Utica this weekend it will be a very difficult road.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 14, 2007, 07:50:00 PM
I think I can speak for everybody and Nobody wants to see RIT/Fisher IV
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 14, 2007, 08:01:55 PM
Quote from: b4the3isme on February 14, 2007, 07:23:13 PM
Bamm- thanks for the directions to the QOWI.. its fasinating ... always been a stat nut but by comparison to the guys over there I'm at 2 + 2 and they're into quantum physics!!   May have met you at Laker/Tiger ECAC game last year with my son?  Did Cols introduce us? Anyway I would love to see the Tigers pull some upsets!!  Just love Bacon and still have fondness for the Tigers. SJF is tough at home though so if they win against Utica this weekend it will be a very difficult road.

Yep, I remember, and that was me.  RIT played well that night, but fell short in the last minute, if I remember correctly (I think Oswego was the #1 and RIT the #8).  IC went on to beat the Lakers in Oswego for the ECAC Upstate title.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 14, 2007, 08:19:21 PM
Absolutely Bamm- C Roy missed a layup or put back that would have either won the game or sent it into OT I think.  All those SUNYAC guys still think league is the "toughest" which I suppose it may be, but if the results of the ECAC from last year are indicative they weren't the cream last year. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 14, 2007, 11:21:29 PM
Quote from: b4the3isme on February 14, 2007, 08:19:21 PM
Absolutely Bamm- C Roy missed a layup or put back that would have either won the game or sent it into OT I think.  All those SUNYAC guys still think league is the "toughest" which I suppose it may be, but if the results of the ECAC from last year are indicative they weren't the cream last year. 

They certainly were not the cream last year when you consider that the E8 had two Sweet 16 teams, an Elite 8 team and the ECAC champs. We'll see what happens this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 15, 2007, 07:58:31 AM
UC is still digging out after the feb 14 nor'easter.
Hoping for a Fisher rout....
Hoping.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 15, 2007, 10:12:11 AM
schools in albany are closed for a second straight day...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 15, 2007, 10:20:45 AM
Nasty storm.
UC didnt open till 10 this am.
Travel west should be better (i assume).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 15, 2007, 12:06:45 PM
Actually, the Southern Tier saw snowfall of between 18-24 inches over past day and a half, but I don't know what's like in Central NY. I do know the Oswego area got piled on last week with between 10-12 feet in most of that region.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 15, 2007, 01:14:54 PM
Utica had 28+ inches and points east had in excess of 3 feet.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: zola on February 15, 2007, 01:48:42 PM
Current Massey ratings:

23 - Liberty
25 - SUNYAC
29 - E8

Small differences. Coin toss. Topic of discussion for under 30s.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 15, 2007, 02:57:27 PM
New NCAA East Region Rankings

East Region
1. Brockport State 18-4 17-4, 10.286
2. St. Lawrence 18-5 17-5, 10.364
3. Rochester 16-6 16-5, 10.286
4. Hamilton 16-5 13-5, 10.000
5. Utica 18-4 17-4, 9.857

NYU or Fisher could move in there if any team falters. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 15, 2007, 03:12:42 PM
Honestly- i have no problem with those rankings... and i agree- a couple of missteps and Fisher is right back in the thick of things.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 15, 2007, 03:45:20 PM
I think with a win over utica and fisher takes Uticas spot in the top 5
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 15, 2007, 04:04:26 PM
Also, you can actually add Fisher in their righ t now with the Hamilton loss to Hobart.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 15, 2007, 11:28:28 PM
Here are the scores

Ithaca 68 RIT 66
Hartwick 72 Alfred 63
Utica 61 Fisher 70 (game is closer than score implies)
Elmira 58 Naz 70


Elmira 52 RIT 70
Utica 84 Alfred 68
Ithaca 65 Naz 67
Hartwick 58 Fisher 86
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 16, 2007, 08:53:38 AM
Big weekend for the Rochester squad in the UAA.  They host Chicago (18-4) and WashU (18-3), the two teams ahead of them in the league standings.  If they can win both I would not be surprised to see them on top of the East Region rankings next week.

NYU travels to cellar dwellars Case Western and Emory.  Cleveland to Atlanta in one weekend... love the UAA.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 16, 2007, 09:54:21 AM
Here are the scores:

Naz 70 Elmira 59
Ithaca 80  RIT 77
Alfred 88  Hartwick 65
UTICA 76 SJF 65  (Score not indicative of how bad UTICA beats them)

Saturday
Ithaca 84  Naz 77
RIT 77  Elmira 55
Alfred 70 UTICA 67  (hung over from post game celebration on Fisher's floor, oh was it sweet)
SJF 71 Hartwick 66

A new Champion Will Be Crowned Tonight!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 16, 2007, 10:42:36 AM
ok clear first off your on crack...second off when Utica loses to fisher you should change your name to your on crack stop being blinded by your team....  Fisher is very tough to beat let alone beat at home and your team struggled to beat them when you were home...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 16, 2007, 11:19:19 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 16, 2007, 10:42:36 AM
ok clear first off your on crack...second off when Utica loses to fisher you should change your name to your on crack stop being blinded by your team....  Fisher is very tough to beat let alone beat at home and your team struggled to beat them when you were home...


Here is my prediction, FWIW.

Utica 70, Fisher 67. Utica wins the E8 title and hosts the tourney. Yes, I am a Utica supporter, but I definitely believe the Pioneers can get it done. It will be very difficult to win in Varsity Gym, but I think Utica can do it. Should be an awesome game tonight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on February 16, 2007, 11:38:42 AM
tonight will be a very exciting game.  I believe that Fisher is going to win but it will be a battle.  I am just hoping that it will not take doulbe overtime for someone to break the 60pt barrier this time around
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 16, 2007, 12:39:19 PM
Have the pioneers left Utica yet?
Hope so-we got another 8 inches with more falling now.
UC didnt open til 10 because of the snow.
Itll be a long trip to roch!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2007, 01:04:50 PM
My Predictions:

FRIDAY

Fisher over Utica, 67-62: Fisher gets off to one its patented fast starts at home, leading by double-digits in the first ten minutes. Utica claws back to trim the halftime deficit to around 6. The second half is a back-and-forth affair with Utica taking a short-lived lead with about 8 minutes remaining. The teams trade hoops for awhile before Dan Mueller hits a big three to put Fisher up four with a minute remaining. Ray Bryant tries to answer, but no dice. Fisher takes care of business at the foul line and once again earns the right to host the E8 Tourney, while the Cardinal Crazies remind the Utica players about how they choked away the chance to host the tourney during Fisher's "rebuilding" year.

Ithaca over RIT, 83-80. Too bad this game is on the same night as Fisher/Utica as it would have been a nice game to go watch on Saturday for Rochester hoops fans. I think this will be a tight game throughout. Big momentum swings will be the name of the game here. If Ithaca can keep RIT off the glass and not let Zeinfeld go off, they have a great chance in this one. Too many second chance opportunities for the Tigers in the first matchup. Ithaca is playing good ball right now, but a lot depends on which RIT club shows up.

Alfred over Hartwick, 71-64
Naz over Elmira, 85-62

SATURDAY

Fisher over Hartwick, 69-52
Utica over Alfred, 72-65
RIT over Elmira, 78-60
Ithaca over Naz, 75-70
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 16, 2007, 01:12:23 PM
I'm with Gobombers and DMC, I think Fisher will not allow Utica to beat them 2 straight times, with the second being at home.  Fisher's fresh are coming together nicely and starting to put up some good numbers and score more.  Should be a very hard fought, physical game.  I just hope the ref's let them play.  If Mcsweeney and beigal get into foul trouble it could be tough for fisher to get the win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2007, 01:24:56 PM
Also, if Ithaca sweeps this weekend (big if), does Jim Mullins have the inside track at E8 Coach of the Year? Trust me, I'm taking my temperature after uttering those words, as you all know I'm not the biggest Mullins supporter there is. However, I think one could make a strong argument for him and it would go something to the effect of, "the team finished 10-4 in conference...

a) when they lost one of the top three players in the conference (Bellis) and a genuine go-to-guy on the offensive end

b) Ithaca's starting five consists of a freshman, three sophomores and a junior

c) the junior started the season as the third-string shooting guard and didn't even letter in either of his first two years

d) of the three sophomores, one spent all Fall away from basketball and focusing on football (Bostic), and another didn't even play organized basketball last year (Leahy)

e) the team survived the loss of its top two shooting guards when Brian Joe left school and Brad Clemente is no longer with the team (reasons unknown)

f) in past years, the season would have went slip-sliding away after the blowout loss at Fisher and the loss later that week at Oneonta; the Bombers had lost three of four games and, as I mentioned, that usually would have led to a prolonged slump during other seasons

As I mentioned, this is not any Ithaca bias here. I've made my feelings known about Mullins on several occasions. That said, if the team finishes 10-4 in the conference, I think he has to warrant a fair amount of consideration. A lot of similar things could be said for the losses at Fisher and the job Kornaker has done. Also, we all know Goodemote is a good coach. Finally, I think McVein deserves consideration every year as it seems like RIT is always in contention with one very good player, one or two pretty good players and then a ragtag bunch of other players.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 16, 2007, 01:38:53 PM
I agree mullins should def. be in consideration.  However, depending on the outcome of tonights game, If Fisher wins and hosts its 4th straight E8 tournament, then Kornacker will and should get it hands down.  Also, if fisher wins the league this year, and Ithaca has not beat them, thus their coach should not get coach of the year.  However, if fisher loses and Ithaca wins out, then I dont see why he shouldnt itd be down to him or goodemote most likely.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2007, 05:00:57 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 16, 2007, 01:38:53 PM
I agree mullins should def. be in consideration.  However, depending on the outcome of tonights game, If Fisher wins and hosts its 4th straight E8 tournament, then Kornacker will and should get it hands down.  Also, if fisher wins the league this year, and Ithaca has not beat them, thus their coach should not get coach of the year.  However, if fisher loses and Ithaca wins out, then I dont see why he shouldnt itd be down to him or goodemote most likely.

Not sure how much that matters, especially when Fisher beat Utica four times last year and Goodemote split Coach of the Year with Kornaker. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't give it to Kornaker this year based solely on the fact that the team wasn't as dominant as it has been in the past. I'm not saying this is fair and, in fact, this is probably the best coaching job he's done with any of his teams. That said, I think the time is right to give it to someone else. I still think Fisher has more talent than any team in this league and this was the first time that the Cards lost a "bad" game, when it lost to Alfred. They lost to Naz last year, but that's a rivalry game. I still think the issue is undecided but I have a feeling Kornaker isn't going to win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 07:54:33 PM
Let's get this thing started.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 08:01:59 PM
Munch is starting tonight. Could be a crazy game. I'm excited.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 08:05:35 PM
Bryant hurts his ankle a few minutes in.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 08:07:57 PM
Great. I miss the game and Utica gets a technical foul because of something I usually take care of.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 08:12:39 PM
Utica trails 11-0 5 minutes in. Ray being forced to leave and the mess up in the book have been huge.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 08:21:34 PM
UC getting killed early on. 19-4 ten minutes gone by in the half.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 08:23:37 PM
Finally, 11 minutes in Fisher gets whistled for it's first foul.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 08:32:54 PM
UC down by 20 with the last two guys off the bench already in the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 08:36:13 PM
UC goes on a 7-0 run in the last few minutes. Now trail by 13.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 08:39:09 PM
UC outscores them 9-2 in the last 3 minutes. Goes into the half down 37-24. Hopefully Ray will be able to play effectively in the second half.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 16, 2007, 08:44:21 PM
way to go fisher!!!!!  Lock this up
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 08:59:29 PM
Ray Bryant is not in the gym at the start of the second half.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Maximuh on February 16, 2007, 09:05:20 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 08:07:57 PM
Great. I miss the game and Utica gets a technical foul because of something I usually take care of.

What was the tech all about anyways ?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 09:07:52 PM
UC gets it to single digits.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Maximuh on February 16, 2007, 09:05:20 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 08:07:57 PM
Great. I miss the game and Utica gets a technical foul because of something I usually take care of.

What was the tech all about anyways ?

Wrong number for Collier in the home book.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 09:10:30 PM
UC gets it down to 9, ref blows a call and gives it back to fisher who promptly hits a 3 to go back up 12.

Ray still hasn't been in the game for the second half.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 09:15:22 PM
Let's hope Ray is able to play the rest of the season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 09:19:22 PM
Ten minutes to go and a 10 point game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 16, 2007, 09:25:18 PM
whether or not a healthy Bryant makes this a game is another story...but if bryant is hurt...Utica could be in a lot of trouble...


and clear you better hope to God that utica wins tommorow with or with bryant because you lose tommorow you need to win the tourny to go to the NCAA's
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 09:26:28 PM
Utica down 7.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 09:27:32 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 16, 2007, 09:25:18 PM
whether or not a healthy Bryant makes this a game is another story...but if bryant is hurt...Utica could be in a lot of trouble...


and clear you better hope to God that utica wins tommorow with or with bryant because you lose tommorow you need to win the tourny to go to the NCAA's

There is no question that Bryant makes this a different game. It is far from out of the question and the best player in the gym has basically not played at all.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 09:30:28 PM
Lighthall picks up his 4th. Utica is playing without 2 of their top 3 players.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 16, 2007, 09:34:05 PM
seems to be a fisher win for me.... The question here is how hurt is Bryant and even if he plays how good can he be with a bad ankle...because you know it has to be serious for him to not be out there right now Bryant is a player and would want to be playing if he could
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 09:36:10 PM
Fisher with another bail out call.

I agree it has to be serious if he is not even trying to play. This game means too much to not have the best player in the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 09:37:35 PM
That being said, if he is able to play the rest of the season, I am not as concerned if the tournament ends up in fisher. If not for Ray getting hurt and the technical foul leading to the quick 11-0 run, this basically has been an even game despite Ray not playing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 16, 2007, 09:38:51 PM
but beyond that Utica fans need to admit that you lost...injuries shouldn't matter you should come to play...fisher has played well...and Biegel has been impresive...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 09:41:34 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 16, 2007, 09:38:51 PM
but beyond that Utica fans need to admit that you lost...injuries shouldn't matter you should come to play...fisher has played well...and Biegel has been impresive...

No doubt Utica got outplayed. However, Bryant being in this game does make it a different story. Doesn't mean UC would have won, but it wouldn't have been anything like this either.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 16, 2007, 09:42:21 PM
and remember with the "blown" calls we are only hearing what the Utica announcers (who have come on here and said that they are biased) are saying



JUSTIN BIEGEL TRIPPLE DOUBLE!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 16, 2007, 09:46:18 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 16, 2007, 09:42:21 PM
and remember with the "blown" calls we are only hearing what the Utica announcers (who have come on here and said that they are biased) are saying



JUSTIN BIEGEL TRIPPLE DOUBLE!!!!!!!!!!!

Adam let's it be known when a bad call benefits UC. He is far from a homer when it comes to evaluating calls. Fisher always gets calls at home no matter who they play. A few years back in a 3 point game, Fishers big guy fell down with the ball in his hand, instead of calling a travel, the ref said the floor was wet and gave fisher the ball back. Then, a minute later in the same spot on the court, Tim Troy fell down with the ball in his hand, and it was called a travel. With 30 seconds left and a 1 point game to decide who wins the conference, fisher stepped over the line while trying to imbound. The ref says the floor was wet again and gives them the ball back. UC is forced to foul and goes down 3.

That being said, refs werent the reason for this loss.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gordonmann on February 16, 2007, 10:19:34 PM
Does anyone happen to know the Empire 8 tiebreaker rules as they pertain to hosting the tournament?

A lot of conferences use head-to-head followed by record against the third place team, fourth place team, etc.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 16, 2007, 10:28:43 PM
Gordon, we just discovered that to be the case in the E8 as well.  Originally we thought it was record against the 8th place, 7th place, and on up, but that turned out to be erroneous.

Ithaca 83, RIT 74

Alfred 76, Hartwick 55

Naz 71, Elmira 56

AU not going quietly, but still pretty much DOA with Elmira visiting Clark Gym tomorrow.  Nice win IC.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 16, 2007, 10:31:47 PM
HAHA  come on clear lets talk about some stuff...

I should not call him out but it is fun...hey at least it was a close game throughtout ....


i love it...

A few drinks have been had tonight...so I Apologize for the harshness....big stuff fisher

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 16, 2007, 10:33:06 PM
so caz what happens if elmira shocks rit and Utica chokes the chicken and loses to Alfred
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gordonmann on February 16, 2007, 10:35:20 PM
Thanks, Caz.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 16, 2007, 10:44:50 PM
Fisher takes home (with a win tomorrow) home court for the 4th consecutive e8 tourny.  they should just call it Fisher's post season tourny haha.  Utica was very UNIMPRESSIVE tonight, they looked like a JV team.  Bryant or not, they had no chance of winning tonight, they were getting smashed early on with him in the game. To be quite honest and dating back to previous posts the kid (guy) does not impress me one bit.  Never and i mean NEVER does anything against fisher. I really dont see why he is so hyped up, even last year i thought justin cichon was a much better player and threat on the court.  Having lost him is a tremendous loss, they dont have any 3 pt shooters (lowest % in the league).  Anything can happen come tourny time, the rematch if the 2 teams make it again should be hopefully a good game unlike tonight.  Either way, you Utica fans are very OPTIMISTIC about your team, getting past fisher or not that team is not getting past the 2nd round of the tournament.  They have no shoothers and no size.  They play solid D, that is there only hope.  That team is above average along with just about every other team in the northeast this year.  Also, Fisher definatly deserves some player of the Year talk, Dan mueller has had an amazing season this year, the kid absolute shoots the Sh**@ out of the ball, and does a lot of other things for the team.  Dan Mcsweeney dominates (doesn't have the nubmers and too many bad games) but is definatly one of the best players.  and UCgrad i would take Mcsweeney or Mueller, along with Tim Bacon and coco crisp over Bryant any day of the week.  I havnt seen ithaca play so can say anything about their players being better, probably bostic as well. 


My top 5 in the region:

UofR
NYU
Bport
Fisher
St. Lawrence/Hamilton
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 16, 2007, 10:58:14 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 16, 2007, 10:33:06 PM
so caz what happens if elmira shocks rit and Utica chokes the chicken and loses to Alfred

Then Alfred gets in as the #4 seed and plays Fisher.

#1 seed is Fisher with a win over Hartwick OR Utica loss to Alfred; Utica needs win AND SJF loss

#2 seed will be the SJF/Utica also-ran

#3 seed is Ithaca

#4 seed is RIT with a win over Elmira OR Alfred loss to Utica; Alfred needs win AND RIT loss
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 16, 2007, 11:08:31 PM
but what say is there any chance that Utica drops to the 3 seed
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 16, 2007, 11:14:06 PM
Nope, because even if Ithaca wins and Utica loses, the tie goes to Utica because they beat Fisher once and the Bombers didn't.  If Fisher also loses to create a 3-way tie, it goes to SJF based on 3-1 record against UC/IC, then Utica the 2 seed due to their win over Fisher, then IC.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2007, 11:58:04 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 16, 2007, 10:44:50 PM
Fisher takes home (with a win tomorrow) home court for the 4th consecutive e8 tourny.  they should just call it Fisher's post season tourny haha.  Utica was very UNIMPRESSIVE tonight, they looked like a JV team.  Bryant or not, they had no chance of winning tonight, they were getting smashed early on with him in the game. To be quite honest and dating back to previous posts the kid (guy) does not impress me one bit.  Never and i mean NEVER does anything against fisher. I really dont see why he is so hyped up, even last year i thought justin cichon was a much better player and threat on the court.  Having lost him is a tremendous loss, they dont have any 3 pt shooters (lowest % in the league).  Anything can happen come tourny time, the rematch if the 2 teams make it again should be hopefully a good game unlike tonight.  Either way, you Utica fans are very OPTIMISTIC about your team, getting past fisher or not that team is not getting past the 2nd round of the tournament.  They have no shoothers and no size.  They play solid D, that is there only hope.  That team is above average along with just about every other team in the northeast this year.  Also, Fisher definatly deserves some player of the Year talk, Dan mueller has had an amazing season this year, the kid absolute shoots the Sh**@ out of the ball, and does a lot of other things for the team.  Dan Mcsweeney dominates (doesn't have the nubmers and too many bad games) but is definatly one of the best players.  and UCgrad i would take Mcsweeney or Mueller, along with Tim Bacon and coco crisp over Bryant any day of the week.  I havnt seen ithaca play so can say anything about their players being better, probably bostic as well. 


I agree with you that Mueller is an excellent player, but POY talk is a bit premature...this year, anyways. I think there's a valid argument out there that he isn't even one of the top two PG's in the league. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he earns less votes than Herring and Burton in the voting for all-conference. I don't think any of the three guys deserve to be demoted to Honorable Mention, so hopefully they can get two of those guys on the 2nd team.

Great balance tonight for the Bombers. Bostic leads the way with 20 pts and 10 rebs. Freshman Tom Brown continues his fine play with 15 and 10. Sean Burton chips in with 14 points and 6 assists. Leahy continues his push for ROY with 17 and Brendan Rogers comes off the bench to score 10. After being outrebounded by 18 boards the first time around, IC outrebounds RIT, 39-32. Ithaca's playing some good ball right now.

By the way, Fisher fans, I'd temper your optimism just a bit. We all know that the RIT game will likely be a war and each of the matchups with the Tigers thus far have been very close.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2007, 12:26:32 AM
BTW, I stand by my initial statement made over a week ago that if UC lost to Fisher tonight and then failed to win the E8 Tourney that they will not make the NCAA's. Mediocre resume + slump to the finish + best player hobbled= Not in the field.

With tonight's win, I think Fisher guarantees themselves an at-large berth if they don't win the E8 Tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 17, 2007, 12:46:33 AM
gb while I want to agree with you this win should put fisher in the tourny...I don't think they can afford to choke in the first game of the E8 tourny
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 17, 2007, 12:55:34 AM
I think Fisher showed a lot of power tonight.... I am happy to see a win at home against a good Utica team... I think this gets them into the tourny...Very happy to get this one...The tourny being at hojme is a big advangtage for Fisher....Say what you want UC fans...they proved it tongiht they are tough to breat at Fisher...

Just take care of business tonight against Hartwick...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 17, 2007, 01:09:44 AM
Go Bombers, I hear ya on the your argument.  I know ive said this time and time again, But I will take a very good player on a good team (mueller has dropped over 20 pts many times this season and has a good assist/turnover ratio) over a stat builder on a team in the middle of the pack to lower end of the league.  I am biased of course, but just because Fisher plays team basketball and someone different steps up night in and night out, they still have the best players.  Therefore, the player playing the best throughout the season should get lots of consideration.  I mean, if you take a 15pt 10 rebound guy from any other team in the league and put them on fisher they turn into a 10 and 6 type of guy, thats the bottom line. 

Also, i know he turned it on late i the season but i guarantee chris baltz will get votes for ROY.  the kid has lead the best team in the conference in scoring a few times this season, having a huge game in the most important game of the season so far as well.  Not saying he should get it because his numbers werent there the first half, but as of right now hes playing like the ROY.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2007, 01:45:01 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 17, 2007, 01:09:44 AM
Go Bombers, I hear ya on the your argument.  I know ive said this time and time again, But I will take a very good player on a good team (mueller has dropped over 20 pts many times this season and has a good assist/turnover ratio) over a stat builder on a team in the middle of the pack to lower end of the league.  I am biased of course, but just because Fisher plays team basketball and someone different steps up night in and night out, they still have the best players.  Therefore, the player playing the best throughout the season should get lots of consideration.  I mean, if you take a 15pt 10 rebound guy from any other team in the league and put them on fisher they turn into a 10 and 6 type of guy, thats the bottom line. 

Also, i know he turned it on late i the season but i guarantee chris baltz will get votes for ROY.  the kid has lead the best team in the conference in scoring a few times this season, having a huge game in the most important game of the season so far as well.  Not saying he should get it because his numbers werent there the first half, but as of right now hes playing like the ROY.

You're entitled to your opinion re: Baltz. Without the numbers in front of me, I'd still be willing to bet that his numbers don't compare with Leahy's or McAdam's over the last five or six contests. I'm pretty sure that each team only votes for one ROY and I think each of those votes will be cast for either Leahy or McAdam, and deservedly so. No point in debating whether Baltz will receive any votes (and I don't think he will) because we'll only ever know the winner, and he, in all likelihood, will not be it.

Also, who are these "stat builders" on "middle of the pack to lower end" teams? I believe Herring is the PG for the team tied for 1st place and Burton is the leader of the 3rd place team that is going to go 10-4 in the conference (assuming a W tomorrow). It's not like those guys are enjoying individual success absent team success. To be honest, I think Burton is the most important player on Ithaca's team. It's been awhile since IC has had a smart PG who can shoot it and make good decisions; they have a chance to win every game with him around.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 17, 2007, 10:09:51 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 17, 2007, 12:26:32 AM
BTW, I stand by my initial statement made over a week ago that if UC lost to Fisher tonight and then failed to win the E8 Tourney that they will not make the NCAA's. Mediocre resume + slump to the finish + best player hobbled= Not in the field.

With tonight's win, I think Fisher guarantees themselves an at-large berth if they don't win the E8 Tourney.

I think there is a possibility Utica could get in. If they beat Alfred today, the Pioneers will be 19-5 and 11-3 in the E8, which is a pretty good record overall. In the conference, they've only lost to Ithaca in overtime  (who will be in the tourney), RIT (who will probably be in the tournament -- and if they make it as the 4 seed could give Fisher problems) and now Fisher (the top seed).
I don't see any bad losses in that group at all, other than the fact that the IC and RIT losses were at home.
Losing to a mediocre Clarkson team is not good at all, but the loss to Hamilton won't be too bad because they are doing very well, as they are 17-6 and 10-3 in the Liberty League.
I think the Pioneers' record is good enough that even if they don't win the tournament (say they lose to Fisher in the championship), they could still get in.
My two cents.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 17, 2007, 10:33:21 AM
Quote from: budcrew08 on February 17, 2007, 10:09:51 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 17, 2007, 12:26:32 AM
BTW, I stand by my initial statement made over a week ago that if UC lost to Fisher tonight and then failed to win the E8 Tourney that they will not make the NCAA's. Mediocre resume + slump to the finish + best player hobbled= Not in the field.

With tonight's win, I think Fisher guarantees themselves an at-large berth if they don't win the E8 Tourney.

I think there is a possibility Utica could get in. If they beat Alfred today, the Pioneers will be 19-5 and 11-3 in the E8, which is a pretty good record overall. In the conference, they've only lost to Ithaca in overtime  (who will be in the tourney), RIT (who will probably be in the tournament -- and if they make it as the 4 seed could give Fisher problems) and now Fisher (the top seed).
I don't see any bad losses in that group at all, other than the fact that the IC and RIT losses were at home.
Losing to a mediocre Clarkson team is not good at all, but the loss to Hamilton won't be too bad because they are doing very well, as they are 17-6 and 10-3 in the Liberty League.
I think the Pioneers' record is good enough that even if they don't win the tournament (say they lose to Fisher in the championship), they could still get in.
My two cents.

bud at some point it comes down to who you beat not who you lost too...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 17, 2007, 10:50:45 AM
I think UC has had a great season, but unofortunatley for them they have really only had one quality win (Fisher) and that was negated by the loss to fisher by 13 or whatever it was last night...

They have a very good record, and are one of the top teams in the region, but I think they have to win two games next weekend to get into the tourny...I thought they were out last year as well, and they got in...so who knows....

I hope Fisher does not throw what they did last night away today against what will probably be a game Hartwick team...Should be a great tourny next weekend regardless of where it is played.

Some predictions:

COY - Rob Kornaker
POY - Doug Herring
ROY - McAdam
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2007, 11:07:11 AM
Beigel wasn't the only person with a triple-double last night. Corey McAdam had 11 pts, 10 assts, 10 stls. Double-figures in steals and assists is unbelievably impressive at this level.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 17, 2007, 12:30:29 PM
Budcrew, I think Utica still has a descent shot at getting in as long as if they lose, they lose to Fisher in the championship on Fishers home court again.  Depending on what happens in other leagues will be huge, if their are upsets in the SUNYAC and LL it will be very close.  With over 20 wins Utica should get in,  the East region although is weak, is better then the Northeast (excluding the NESCAC).  It just sucks their are so many new england teams and leagues with automatic bids. But like i said, if they lose to Fisher again at home, and there are no major upsets, then I think they will get in similarly to last year. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 17, 2007, 12:46:20 PM
Is the Fisher/Hartwick game available online anywhere? I would love to listen, but I am not sure if there is a link to listen/ follow the action.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 17, 2007, 12:58:57 PM
great win for the alma mater.
now just take care of biz against wick and the season has turned itself around.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2007, 02:10:11 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 17, 2007, 12:30:29 PM
Budcrew, I think Utica still has a descent shot at getting in as long as if they lose, they lose to Fisher in the championship on Fishers home court again.  Depending on what happens in other leagues will be huge, if their are upsets in the SUNYAC and LL it will be very close.  With over 20 wins Utica should get in,  the East region although is weak, is better then the Northeast (excluding the NESCAC).  It just sucks their are so many new england teams and leagues with automatic bids. But like i said, if they lose to Fisher again at home, and there are no major upsets, then I think they will get in similarly to last year. 

I don't think you can make a blanket statement like that. A LOT depends on what happens in the other tournaments. I think four, maximum of five, teams make it from the LL/SUNYAC/E8. If Brockport doesn't win their conference tourney, they are a shoe-in for an at-large bid...there's the fourth team (assuming SUNYAC champ, LL champ, Fisher as the first three). Also, not sure how we can definitively say Utica will be in, especially when the loser of the LL final (St. Lawrence or Hamilton) will likely have a higher QOWI than the Pioneers and given that Hamilton has beaten Utica. If a team like Union ends up winning the LL, I think they'll take the first place team from the LL over Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 17, 2007, 03:26:46 PM
though lets rember here also...Utica will be co-regular season champs as long as nothing wierd happens this afternoon
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bigbetty55 on February 17, 2007, 03:33:49 PM
The Fisher/Hartwick game is available online.  I saw it on the empire 8 website.  You can log onto www.wlea.net and get it.  I'm looking to find out if I can get the Ithaca/Naz game.  Does anyone know if it's online??
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 17, 2007, 03:43:50 PM
thanks betty
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bigbetty55 on February 17, 2007, 04:01:38 PM
You can also try www.wysl1040.com for the Fisher game.  It doesn't sound like that other website is carrying it! Sorry! It's listed on St. John Fisher website as being on today.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 17, 2007, 04:17:41 PM
that's it thanks betty...though I was enjoying listening to alfred beating utica
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 17, 2007, 04:47:23 PM
31-21 fisher at half....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 17, 2007, 05:33:04 PM
Any news on the UC/Alfred game...or any other games in the league...I heard FIsher was up 27 late in the game...sounds like a win for them...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 17, 2007, 05:49:27 PM
Final from McLane Center:
Alfred 62, Utica 61

Anything on Elmira vs. RIT? (Hail Mary!)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 17, 2007, 05:52:56 PM
AU essentially eliminates Utica from NCAA at-large consideration. Pios will need to win the E8 Tournament at Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 17, 2007, 06:06:30 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on February 17, 2007, 05:49:27 PM
Final from McLane Center:
Alfred 62, Utica 61

Anything on Elmira vs. RIT? (Hail Mary!)


From empire8.com

Elmira     63
RIT         73

No box score on empire8 or the RIT Athletics site as of yet.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 17, 2007, 06:10:54 PM
RIT and Alfred both finish 8-6, having split head-to-head, split with 1.Fisher, split with 2.Utica, but RIT edges AU on tiebreaker by splitting with 3.Ithaca, while AU dropped both to the Bombers.

Good luck to the Tigers in the E8 Tourney....to be played at Fisher. Looks like Tigers will take on Cardinals, Utica faces Ithaca.



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 17, 2007, 06:14:10 PM
Conference Tourney set:

http://www.empire8.com/021707-3.html
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 17, 2007, 06:29:01 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 12, 2007, 09:43:57 PM
I looked at the standings and ya there is no way unless utica chokes on both games...

I just find this funny right about now.

RIT/Fisher IV next week. When was the last time RIT and Fisher didn't play 4 times in a season? It seems like its been this way the last 3-4 years.

I'm also looking forward to everyone piling on Clearconceit for the ridiculous comments over the past week and his subsequent response where there will be no admission that anything he said was incorrect and that UC will still come into the E8 tourney and beat IC by 30 and then Fisher on their home floor by 20.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 17, 2007, 07:48:25 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on February 16, 2007, 09:54:21 AM
Here are the scores:

Naz 70 Elmira 59
Ithaca 80  RIT 77
Alfred 88  Hartwick 65
UTICA 76 SJF 65  (Score not indicative of how bad UTICA beats them)

Saturday
Ithaca 84  Naz 77
RIT 77  Elmira 55
Alfred 70 UTICA 67  (hung over from post game celebration on Fisher's floor, oh was it sweet)
SJF 71 Hartwick 66

A new Champion Will Be Crowned Tonight!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder how hung over they are...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 17, 2007, 07:55:14 PM
Clearandconciets new name...CrackandCrackedup....

WOW utica really chokes on the chicken...Clear remember you can say at least we've got the ECAC's,
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 17, 2007, 08:00:47 PM
Unfortunately it's not a nail in the coffin yet, they could always just still win the E8 tournament... however after this weekend it would appear any momentum is gone. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 17, 2007, 08:05:35 PM
I mean they had a chance to at least share the regular season title...and they choked.... :-X
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 17, 2007, 09:29:28 PM
Plus, now they have to play the two games of the tournament at Fisher, which they obviously have a hard time doing...All year people have said that they struggle on the trip to Rochester...proven true this weekend...

Clear had said they were a team of destiny...turns out he was correct...their destiny is to finish second in the conference and make a run at an ECAC title...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 17, 2007, 10:00:23 PM
Naz beat Ithaca 84-80.  I'd be annoyed, but that game didn't mean jack for IC anyway.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 17, 2007, 10:18:40 PM
except for the big MO...Fisher has it...just about everyone else came in on a down note...

early predictions

Ithaca over Utica
Fisher over RIT in a very close last second game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 17, 2007, 10:36:07 PM
I don't make excuses.  We were beaten period.  As far as today's game I don't think a win would matter for the NCAA's.  We need to win the tournament next weekend to get in.  And I believe that would have been the case for Fisher had they lost at home to us.
The primary concern is weather Ray will be able to play next weekend.  We obviously aren't the same team without him.

Congrats to Ithaca and RIT as well.

Final year awards:
COY: Kornaker
POY: Coccozziello
ROY: McAdams


Lets get healthy for next week!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DirkDiggler on February 18, 2007, 03:08:33 AM
I don't post much at all but I think I have alot of knowledge about basketball and Fisher since I go to school there.  And to be honest with you, Coach Kornaker should not recieve coach of the year.  (Yes Superman, there is a "not" in that sentence).  Here are my reasons...

1)  I know they won the league but seriously, Utica choked.  So in my eyes, Utica gave Fisher the league title.  And I know Fisher had a "down" year (talent wise) but many teams would love to have the down year that Fisher had.  With that, I can really only see Fisher having that first loss to Utica.  They had two returning all-conference players and Dan Mueller got a lot of time last year.  That leads me to my second point...

2)  The thing that perplexes me about Kornaker is that he has alot of sophomores and juniors on the bench that don't play.  A good coach to me  works everyone into the system so when they are a junior they can greatly contribute to the team.  I'm not taking anything away from Newman, but I know for a fact that McKeaver and Coyne and Kiernan and the late Kevin Casey could be easily doing what Newman is.  Adrian Fenyn should win the award of most God-given talent that doesn't play.  He dropped 19 tonight but, to me, Kornaker has his favorites and sticks with them.  Personally, I think Kornaker has a few favorites and in my book that isn't the sign of a good coach.  I wouldn't be surprised if half of the 9321 freshman transfer.

3) I'm friends with about 90% of the team and I can say that about 99% of them have a bone to pick with the guy.  How can a coach be COY if he doesn't have the respect of his players.

4)  Watch his actions on the sideline!!!  I laugh at the comments that say he could coach at the next level right now.  THe D1 refs would T him up before he even stepped off of the bus.  He has something to whine about every call, even if it goes for Fisher.  I watch Goodemote and the guy is a gentleman.  He respects the officials and only coaches.  That is a coach.

5)  I'm sorry but a COY should not have 62 people on his bench.  Step up to the plate and let some people go. 

6)  I don't like to focus on the past seasons but look at the two previous years.  The 28-0 year he might not have coached all but 21 seconds.  Then comes Potsdam and Fisher loses by over 25.  Next year...  they barely beat Utica in the Sweet 16 then the Elite 8 was a close game.  I know that Potsdam and Amherst were better then Fisher... but Phi Slamma Jamma was better then NC State.  What I'm getting at is he hasn't had to do any coaching really.  I saw from the stands this year that the assistant drew up the play that beat RIT at RIT during the regular season.  Throw him in the same league and Amherst or the UofR and they might not beat the women's team.

Personally, just watching the games and talking with friends on the team I get the vibe that he isn't a "player's coach"  I can see that though because it seems like he is never happy with anything.

I don't know who really should win COY.  I can't see Goodemote now with the weekend they had.  I might have to agree with GB15 and Mullins?

Good luck to the teams next weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 18, 2007, 03:36:42 AM
Quote from: DirkDiggler on February 18, 2007, 03:08:33 AM
3) I'm friends with about 90% of the team and I can say that about 99% of them have a bone to pick with the guy.  How can a coach be COY if he doesn't have the respect of his players.



It sounds like Dirk has a bone to pick as well.  Seriously, is there a reason to come in here and report such "dissention" between coach and players at the most important point of the season?  I'm sure the 90% of the team will be happy with you posting that here. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 18, 2007, 10:04:42 AM
I've never said that Kornaker should win coach of the year...I personally think Mullins from Ithaca should get it...but if Goodemote gets it then the award is a joke you shouldn't get coach of the year if you choke and give away the conference title...  But I do think Kornaker is going to get the award...also ask Texas Tech players if they like bobby knight...

you may not like Kornaker but you have to respect what he's done...he's obviosuly the most successful coach in the E8
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: not_josh_reed on February 18, 2007, 10:41:59 AM
Dirk I am with you, your post is right on, I came on the board this morning to dust off my password and comment on the very same thing.   Superman you may respect Kornacker for what he has done, but I am not sure I do.  I would like to leave the kudos to Dan Mueller who has had a fantastic year and to McSweeney and Biegel.  It is obvious that Kornacker leaves way to many causalities on his road to victory.  Shame on him for his treatment of Adrian Fenyn.  Some how Fenyn got on Kornacker's **** list and remained there the entire year.  He took this talented senior and relegated him to the very end of the bench and didn't even have the courtesy to start him on Senior Night.  Congrats to Fenyn who came in and showed what he was capable of, scoring 19 points in 21 minutes.  Certainly not COY material to be so spiteful to waste such talent for the entire season.

As a freshman on this club I would be questioning myself if I am going to be the Dan Mueller of the future, finally in my junior and senior year given the opportunity to showcase my talent.   Are the chances greater that I will I be relegated to the ranks of McKiever, Coyne,and Kiernan,  or even Fenyn, or worse yet Casey and Huetter.  Once again congrats to Feneyn for a great game.
 
Oh well congrats to Fisher for climbing back into the hunt and hosting the E8's.  I hope you win it all
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 18, 2007, 10:48:53 AM
Quote from: DirkDiggler on February 18, 2007, 03:08:33 AM
I don't post much at all but I think I have alot of knowledge about basketball and Fisher since I go to school there.  And to be honest with you, Coach Kornaker should not recieve coach of the year.  (Yes Superman, there is a "not" in that sentence).  Here are my reasons...

1)  I know they won the league but seriously, Utica choked.  So in my eyes, Utica gave Fisher the league title.  And I know Fisher had a "down" year (talent wise) but many teams would love to have the down year that Fisher had.  With that, I can really only see Fisher having that first loss to Utica.  They had two returning all-conference players and Dan Mueller got a lot of time last year.  That leads me to my second point...

2)  The thing that perplexes me about Kornaker is that he has alot of sophomores and juniors on the bench that don't play.  A good coach to me  works everyone into the system so when they are a junior they can greatly contribute to the team.  I'm not taking anything away from Newman, but I know for a fact that McKeaver and Coyne and Kiernan and the late Kevin Casey could be easily doing what Newman is.  Adrian Fenyn should win the award of most God-given talent that doesn't play.  He dropped 19 tonight but, to me, Kornaker has his favorites and sticks with them.  Personally, I think Kornaker has a few favorites and in my book that isn't the sign of a good coach.  I wouldn't be surprised if half of the 9321 freshman transfer.

3) I'm friends with about 90% of the team and I can say that about 99% of them have a bone to pick with the guy.  How can a coach be COY if he doesn't have the respect of his players.

4)  Watch his actions on the sideline!!!  I laugh at the comments that say he could coach at the next level right now.  THe D1 refs would T him up before he even stepped off of the bus.  He has something to whine about every call, even if it goes for Fisher.  I watch Goodemote and the guy is a gentleman.  He respects the officials and only coaches.  That is a coach.

5)  I'm sorry but a COY should not have 62 people on his bench.  Step up to the plate and let some people go. 

6)  I don't like to focus on the past seasons but look at the two previous years.  The 28-0 year he might not have coached all but 21 seconds.  Then comes Potsdam and Fisher loses by over 25.  Next year...  they barely beat Utica in the Sweet 16 then the Elite 8 was a close game.  I know that Potsdam and Amherst were better then Fisher... but Phi Slamma Jamma was better then NC State.  What I'm getting at is he hasn't had to do any coaching really.  I saw from the stands this year that the assistant drew up the play that beat RIT at RIT during the regular season.  Throw him in the same league and Amherst or the UofR and they might not beat the women's team.

Personally, just watching the games and talking with friends on the team I get the vibe that he isn't a "player's coach"  I can see that though because it seems like he is never happy with anything.

I don't know who really should win COY.  I can't see Goodemote now with the weekend they had.  I might have to agree with GB15 and Mullins?

Good luck to the teams next weekend.

130-35...That is Kornakers record since he took over as the head coach...that 35 losses includes a 13-13 season his first year. I think some players can handle him not being a "players coach". I have known a lot of college athletes, and was one myself, and it seems to me that a lot of players that can not get off the bench for one reason or another, tend to have a problem with the coach. Kornaker may have his favorites, and it may not be the most talented players, but with a record like that I think it is kind of obvious that he knows how to put a team on the floor.

Mullins may be a great choice for COY...Ithaca has done a great job this year, and has made itself a huge threat to win the E8 tourny. But, lets not trash Kornaker because some players have a problem with him. Show me a coach who does not have a few players that disagree with him.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 18, 2007, 10:51:14 AM
You could make the case that the league has teams with all the resources (like a Fisher or Ithaca) and teams with limited ones (Hartwick Elmira etc) but regardless Kornaker won the league again.  He deserves it.  Had we won I think Goodemote would win - but we didn't.  
Just in talking with people involved in the league the league is pretty divided by the type of support each institution is giving the programs.  So while Kornaker is at the top in terms of having things in place to win, so to is Ithaca's staff.  If you look overall at the total success of the athletic programs Ithaca is by far the top college within the league.  It isn't even close.  So while Coach Kornaker has alot going in his favor, so to do a few other programs in the conference.  He won and they didn't.  You can't argue with the facts.
He deserves to win it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 18, 2007, 10:54:47 AM
can I be Dan Hawkins right now this is DIII basketball...and you are playing at one of the better DIII programs in the land, a perrinaial top 25 team and a team that is always a threat to go deep in the playoffs...
Guys know very well how many players are on this team and they can choose to quit or transfer if they are unhappy...the fact is we are only hearing from "friends" of the players...When Kornaker stops being successful then I will be critical but until then results tell the story...

I mean come on stop all this whining about kornaker and be happy that Fisher is winning and is hosting the conference tourny in a year that was supposed to be a down year....

Isn't that the true meaning of Coach of the year doing better then you were supposed to...I mean this isn't a friends making contest...it's who gets the most wins in a season and for 4 straight years Fisher has done that...so Dirk and not josh reed do us all a favor and stop posting again....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: clearconceit on February 18, 2007, 11:04:45 AM
Agree plus every single coach in the country has players that don't like them.  That is the way it is.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 18, 2007, 11:09:24 AM
P.S. IT'S DIII Basketball!!!! IT's the Empire 8!!! It aint intermurals!!  If your unhappy with your playing time go play intermurals brother, go play intermurals
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 18, 2007, 11:35:39 AM
<so Dirk and not josh reed do us all a favor and stop posting again>

Superman your getting pretty self-righteous on us this Sunday, however I think this is an open board and we are each allowed our own opinion and will post when I feel like posting. .  Happy that you want Kornacker as COY and I don't care if he gets it or not.  That fact remains that his treatment of Adrian Fenyn this year was deplorable.  Coming into the season he had similar playtime to Dan Mueller and as a Senior faced with such treatment he did not have the option to transfer to another school.  This kid was highly recruited out of high school by Kornecker and he did not do right by him. 

The successes and the minus of the Fisher program remain the same and will not change until the school stops using its athletic program as a recruiting arm of the school.

Course I thought Naz was going to be a force this year , so even I do not take this too serriously, just hate to see talent abused and Fenyn was
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 18, 2007, 11:38:15 AM
there is always more to a story....obviously Adrian did something to not get playing time...if he was good enough to play consistently then he would have
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DirkDiggler on February 18, 2007, 11:42:57 AM
I don't have a bone to pick with Kornaker at all.  Everytime I see the guy he is always nice to me.  I guess I was just relaying what I heard from friends.  Either way, I don't think he or Goodemote will win.  Maybe Daly should get it for having one of the most talented teams and do nothing with them.

My ROY has to be McAdams.  I don't think Baltz or Newman from Fisher will get any consideratoin really.

POY - I don't know.  I can see both sides of the case here.  With Coco you have numbers on a not so good team.  Without him, Hartwick finishes 0-14 playing the women.  Just looking at the Fisher stats, to me there isn't anyone who has eye popping numbers.  I know last year SOB didn't have any thing that spectacular but he was more vital to that team then his numbers showed.  I guess the only one from fisher that should recieve consideration is Mueller.

Bryant and Herring are my other two top runners but with the recent slide Utica had, I'm not sure.  Any word on Bryant with his injury?

Good luck and congrats to Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: SJFF82 on February 18, 2007, 11:47:58 AM
Quote from: notjoshreed on February 18, 2007, 11:35:39 AM
<so Dirk and not josh reed do us all a favor and stop posting again>



The successes and the minus of the Fisher program remain the same and will not change until the school stops using its athletic program as a recruiting arm of the school.


huh?  The athletic dept as a recruiting tool?   ???  Did I misunderstand that line or have you not opened a newspaper or turned on a tv since 1980?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 18, 2007, 12:13:52 PM
sjf2  my statement by it self seems ridiculous, an add on to my rant bout Fenyn, the next is an earlier post that explains what I mean from a Jan 7th post

<<Second some thoughts on the recruiting at Fisher and other D3 schools.  I believe the schools allow and encourages the over recruiting of high schools students in all their sports.  For Kornaker and other coaches it is a windfall, having all these kids (the masses) to mold into the team of there liking over a season or even a couple of years (the few).  It's like being a Mormon and marring six wives and never having to choose your favorite.  For the colleges it commits a group of students to their schools that for the most part can afford to be there and at the same time with little to no aid from the colleges.  Most of these athletes do not have time for their studies, the sports and a part time job so the parent foot most of the college bill and the life cost as well.   These students may not sign any letters of commitment but they are committed to becoming one of the gems of their chosen sport at a well respected school.  The shame of the chase is that most of the masses end up with little time as the years go on and are relegated towards the end of the bench or off the team as the cycle repeats.  In the meantime the school wins big time as this over recruited class of athletes and their parents foot the a majority of the students bill for a solid four years of education.  Distracters might say that the student gets a good education but the college gets a committed student who might easily have gone elsewhere.  For the college it is all about marketing. There is a story a couple years ago that the Fisher Women's softball team recruited 31 athletes for two spots.  When the coach spoke some concern for disillusioning so many athletes an administrator from the college told the, your job is to get these kids here,  our job is to keep them (after they are no longer part of the team)   (If you think Basketball has a big team take a look at the football sidelines)

So in summary:
Athletes and their parents get to chase a dream of continuing their high school stardom by becoming part of the masses
Coaches get to dabble with a huge amount of athletes while they mold their team of a few
Colleges get a great crop of higher % paying students to their schools with the hope of retaining them for 4 years. 

Thus everybody wins or at least the colleges do, the coaches do and the few athletes that play and thrive into their senior years. 
The rest, well, what an education in life the get as they learn to handle frustration and disappointments.  >>>

But this being said, time to get a life and enjoy my Sunday
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: SJFF82 on February 18, 2007, 12:22:56 PM
The over-recruiting theory seems a tad interesting and I would tend to agree that colleges and universities have morphed into corporation style enterprises as opposed to institutions of higher ed and learning however, your point fails to account for the fact that most, if  not all, of the "overrecruited" are doing what they want anyway.  There are 100+ kids on the football sideline, not because of overrecruitment, but because there are 100 kids who love and want to play football...trust me, you do not put yourself through the practices and the off-season regiment because the administrators 'overrecruited' you.  That is not to say though that the administrators are not very pleased and encouraging of the bottom-line that recruiting produces...$$$
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 18, 2007, 12:44:05 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 18, 2007, 10:04:42 AM
I've never said that Kornaker should win coach of the year...I personally think Mullins from Ithaca should get it...but if Goodemote gets it then the award is a joke you shouldn't get coach of the year if you choke and give away the conference title...  But I do think Kornaker is going to get the award...also ask Texas Tech players if they like bobby knight...

you may not like Kornaker but you have to respect what he's done...he's obviosuly the most successful coach in the E8

C'mon, Super, please don't compare Kornaker and Bob Knight. I think Knight has probably forgot more basketball than Kornaker knows.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: maxpower on February 18, 2007, 01:34:10 PM
Can I first say KUDOS to superman for the Hawkins reference. That was one of the greatest rants since Michael Kay comparing the plight of a big-league broadcaster to that of slaves or holocaust victims. Go play intramurals, brother. Of course it was quickly overshadowed by Tim "I ain't Gay" Hardaway.

The reason I'm commenting is I plan on braving the Fisher campus for the first time since... well i think we all know since when to see the tourney this weekend. Will anyone else be there? I have no one to go to IC sporting events with anymore. Let me know what the plans are if any other Bomber fans (or friendly non-Bomber fans) are going.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 18, 2007, 03:46:16 PM
After reading all the comments, i misewell pitch in my two cents:

I don't think Kornacker is the best coach in the world, nore has had to do all that coaching the past few seasons due to the talent he has had.  However, if you look at the other coaches in the E8, besides goodemote, i dont think id rather play for another one.  The E8 has a pretty bad core of coaches, idk how some of those guys still have jobs.  On the note where kornacker recruits too many players, your're right.  But i dont disagree, every good program over recruits, the one thing they do that kornacker doesnt do, is make enough cuts which is why i understand where the posts come from.  However, if you look outside of the E8 or outside of the region even and look at the end of the best teams in the nations bench, their are really good players on the end of them, that would be stars in our league.  so i have no sympathy for the players that dont make it in kornackers system, most of them dont have the work ethica and dedication to make themselves good enough to earn playing time.  But again, Kornacker should have just cut them in the first place instead of giving them a chance to just disappoint themselves again.  As far as Fenyn goes, he has had some tough breaks, but pretty much took him self out of the system with all the problems with school.  Injuries also cost him, i admit he is a great talent that ended up doing absolutely nothing, but it happens.  He had a starting job for a few games and did absolutely nothing with it, so i guess kornacker has decided to go with new blood and get younger players with more potential some game experience (good coaching move in my books).  As of right now its finally starting to come together.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on February 18, 2007, 04:12:44 PM
I only have one thing to say. Find a program that needs you. Don't go where they already have people in that position and if you go to a school with a lot of talent you better be ready to beat somebody out every day for playing time. Thats all I have to say.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on February 18, 2007, 04:28:20 PM
POY should be jan coco. but he wont get it, im not sure on that one. Ray Bryant, Herring perhaps?

ROY has to be Corey McAdams.
baltz, newman shouldnt even be considered, and leahy?! gimme a break. this kid was 2 rebounds shy of a QUADRUPLE DOUBLE the other night. if any other player in the conference gets votes for that award, then they should be deemed retarded.

COY? No idea. Honestly.

...on the Adrian Fenyn thing, regardless of whether or not he is good, not starting him on senior night is pretty dick by Kornaker. Personally, i think Fenyn isn't any good, so not playing him all season wasn't a surprise to me. I think he wasn't good in the first place, and if he did something to get into Kornaker's dog house, then that just didn't help his cause at all.

Couple things...

-There's been the ongoing Bostic vs. McSweeny talk all year...BOSTIC is better, not having Sean OBrien showed that McSweeny isn't that good.

-Is Ray Bryant injured? Is he gonna go in E8 tourney?

-What would have happened for IC had BRian Joe not been MIA (what's his deal anyways?)

-and what would've happened for NAZ had Ryan MCAdams not missed the whole season??

-and Is Clemenson or whatever from AU a daddy?!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 18, 2007, 04:58:49 PM
couldn't have said it better Ricco.

E8bball fan. Mcsweeney isnt any good? he had 23 and 13 on Bostic idk what your talkin about.  he is the most dominant force in the paint in the E8.  Teams key on him game in and out and still finds ways to score. 

Also, i agree mcadams should get ROY. but i think Baltz should be considered, there always has to be considerations for other players in a player of the year nomination.  Besides, I do agree Mcadams had an amazing freshmen year, those numbers are unreal.  But Baltz can score, and although his numbers arnt as good he plays on a better team with less opportunity, and has earned a starting spot over some solid returners, and now is leading the team game in and out to a conf. championship. 


Bryant is injured, and i would think he'd be back. 

If Brian joe would have been back, it probably would have meant less minutes early on for Leahy and he may not be where he is right now because of it. 

If Naz had ryan Mcadam i think they would be by far the most talented offensive team in the conference and would be tough to beat on paper, but its naz.  who the hell knows if they will show up. They play no D and cant finish out a whole game, so they probably wouldnt be much better off with him. 

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on February 18, 2007, 05:20:38 PM
I only saw Brian Joe play vs. the Rochester schools in Rochester but I honestly think IC was better off without him this year. Every game I saw he killed IC by taking terrible 3's and usually finishing about 3-14 from the field. And it wasn't like he was offsetting his poor shooting by picking things up on the defensive end or hitting the boards.

Regarding Fisher's recruiting I think any coach would love to bring in large recruiting classes like SJF but most teams don't have 15 assistants that can hit the recruiting trail all year. That being said, the practice of bringing in huge classes and burying players on the bench may catch up with them eventually, at least for local recruits that can see it first hand. I know of a couple of players that have been recruited by SJF but have gone elsewhere for that reason.


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 18, 2007, 06:01:50 PM
A few things:

1) TF2 hit the nail on the head. The loss of Brian Joe was an addition by subtraction. He was a chucker who, occasionally, would have a good game. I think they were better off without him, honestly. Ruffrage is almost a non-factor when it comes to scoring but he plays pretty solid defense and allows the scorers to take more shots.

2) E8BBF, I'm not sure why Joe left. However, he played all first semester and then played in zero second semester games. He is no longer in the school directory which means he left school. Maybe it was for academic reasons but I'm not about to assume. By all accounts he was a good guy and teammate. I'm sure everyone at Ithaca wishes him well. I am also unsure as to why Clemente is no longer with the team. However, he is still in school.

3) FD, Joe would have had no bearing on Leahy's minutes. When a guy is 6'7'' and has the game that Leahy has, he would have been playing a lot, regardless of who else was on the team. The reason for his reduced minutes towards the end of the first semester was because he was banged up.

4) FD, McSweeney put up 23 and 13 and Bostic put up essentially the same numbers. Forget not that it was a 4OT game and McSweeney got a bunch of his numbers in those OT's. Also, it's a moot point because from the decent portion I saw of the game, Bostic wasn't even guarding McSweeney; Tom Brown and Sean Stahn were. Bostic has put up good numbers CONSISTENTLY. McSweeney has had his moments but Bostic has had a better conference season. I'm not sure if they'll give McSweeney first team status because he is older, but Bostic has earned it.

Also, I don't want to hear about their first meeting at Fisher. That wasn't even a "game" in my mind. Fisher came out and blitzed IC and IC just rolled over. I don't put much stock in that one.

5) E8BBF, I agree that McAdam will win ROY. However, to say that Leahy has no chance is absurd. The kid has won E8 ROY five times; more than McAdam. Obviously someone (likely the conference SID's) disagree with you that Leahy isn't in the same league McAdam.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 18, 2007, 10:25:40 PM
gb15 while I agree with you, a game is a game and if you go out suck in a game and lose big time then there is obviously a reason...

now lets get off the kornaker bashing

POY-while I am completly against giving POY to a player whose team won 3 league games...there are no other stand out players...Herring and Bryant lost it when there team choked...and there is really no one on fisher that deserves it...so i'm giving it to coco

ROY- it has to be McAdams but Baltz and Newman have been huge for fisher and same for Lehay of Ithaca

COY-it's going to be Kornaker be Mullins just has not done enough to win it and Goodemote's team really choked...This year has to be Kornakers best coaching year because he has done a lot with the least amount of talent he has had in a long time
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 19, 2007, 08:32:33 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 18, 2007, 10:25:40 PM
POY-while I am completly against giving POY to a player whose team won 3 league games...there are no other stand out players...Herring and Bryant lost it when there team choked...and there is really no one on fisher that deserves it...so i'm giving it to coco

Amazing how sentiment here has changed in a few weeks.  This could certainly be one of those years where a couple of players split the award.

Quote from: Superman57 on February 18, 2007, 10:25:40 PM
ROY- it has to be McAdams but Baltz and Newman have been huge for fisher and same for Lehay of Ithaca

These Fisher guys are ridiculous with the "Baltz and Newman" stuff.  They aren't even close to McAdam or Leahy.  Furthermore, Kenny Gethers of RIT is eligible for the award, and he's averaging 5 points more a game than Baltz and 9 more a game than Newman.  Please stop mentioning Newman and Baltz, for my sanity and GB15's.

McAdam:  14.6p, 5.5r, 49%fg
Leahy: 12.2, 4.0r, 44%fg
Gethers: 14.2p, 5.5r, 51%fg

Baltz: 9.6p, 3.7r, 41%fg
Newman: 5.6p, 2.6r, 50%fg

They are not even in the discussion for Rookie of the Year.

McAdam has a chance to be POY in this conference for each of his next three seasons.  He is a great player, and if Naz can't find a way to win a league title sometime while he's there it will be very disappointing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 19, 2007, 09:04:07 AM
Bamm, I Agree that mcadam and leahy have done more for their team.  But dont bring up numbers, like i've said a million times, Fisher players never have high scorers  because the play TEAM basketball, idk what you guys dont understand.  Just becaues Joe canori scores 20ppg for Naz doesnt meant he would on fisher i'd give him about 12ppg MAYBE.  Little Mcadam's stats would be split in half as well.  You guys just dont understand.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 19, 2007, 09:15:36 AM
Good weekend for Fisher!
Talk about a turn of events.
Someone help me out now- does Fisher make the NCAA's if they lose in the E8 tourney?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 19, 2007, 09:16:29 AM
Please don't tell me I don't understand how Fisher plays basketball.  I've seen more of that program over the last six years than any team other than RIT.  I know the players, I know how they play, and I consider myself fairly objective (unlike, um, most of the Fisher guys on this board).

You guys always use this "team basketball" argument whenever any player's stats are better than a Fisher player.  This is your way of reconciling the statistics with your belief that every player on Fisher is better than every other player in the league.  Must be Fisher's "team basketball" style. 

Yes, Fisher has good players.  And yes, Newman and Baltz are good young players.  But they did not have the seasons that McAdam, Leahy, and Gethers had.  I would take any of those three over Baltz and Newman for any team.

What's more, Cory McAdam, if inserted on Fisher, would be the most important player on their team immediately.  And he would run the show for the next four years.  He's that good, and I think you Cardinal fans could be pretty sick of him by the time he graduates.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 19, 2007, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 19, 2007, 09:15:36 AM
Good weekend for Fisher!
Talk about a turn of events.
Someone help me out now- does Fisher make the NCAA's if they lose in the E8 tourney?

I think things would only get hairy if Fisher loses in the E8's and Brockport loses in the SUNYAC's (they currently have won 12 in a row).

Rochester split with Chicago and WashU over the weekend, which is an OK set of results for them.  NYU dispatched with the UAA cellar dwellars over the weekend.  Hamilton and St. Lawrence both recovered from losses to Hobart by sweeping their respective weekend games.  It's going to be interesting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 19, 2007, 09:49:42 AM
Bamm, I understand that stat wise..baltz and newman are not in the same league as McAdams...but would fisher be where they are with out them...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 19, 2007, 09:51:54 AM
Yeah its going to be very interesting.  I think UofR will not get in as they didnt finish in the top 3 in their conference and have 7 losses. NYU will be in, bport win or lose in their tourny will be in, 1 team from the LL i think will get in, Fisher would be the 2nd at large after bport if bport looses.  I think they will get in as long as the make it to the conf. championship.  so if we have five teams from the east i see it as:

NYU
Bport (2 sunyacs if bport looses)
LL team
Fisher (2 if fisher looses)
not sure if the NEAC gets an automatic bid anymore if the do, then there will be one from that as well.

Lets just hope that bport wins the sunyac and st. lawrence wins the LL this year to make things less complicated.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 19, 2007, 09:53:38 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 18, 2007, 06:01:50 PM
A few things:

4) FD, McSweeney put up 23 and 13 and Bostic put up essentially the same numbers. Forget not that it was a 4OT game and McSweeney got a bunch of his numbers in those OT's. Also, it's a moot point because from the decent portion I saw of the game, Bostic wasn't even guarding McSweeney; Tom Brown and Sean Stahn were. Bostic has put up good numbers CONSISTENTLY. McSweeney has had his moments but Bostic has had a better conference season. I'm not sure if they'll give McSweeney first team status because he is older, but Bostic has earned it.

Also, I don't want to hear about their first meeting at Fisher. That wasn't even a "game" in my mind. Fisher came out and blitzed IC and IC just rolled over. I don't put much stock in that one.

5) E8BBF, I agree that McAdam will win ROY. However, to say that Leahy has no chance is absurd. The kid has won E8 ROY five times; more than McAdam. Obviously someone (likely the conference SID's) disagree with you that Leahy isn't in the same league McAdam.

GB15...I totally agree that Bostic will be a better player than McSweeny...but I need to set this straight. McSweeny actually did not play for the first 2 1/2 overtimes. He had a problem with his eyes and apparently could not see. He then came into the game half way through the 3rd OT and scored something like 4 points for the rest of the game.

Having been at the game I would say that the first half belonged to McSweeny. He dominated Bostic for the first 20 minutes. Even an Ithaca fan that I was sitting with commented on how much better McSweeny was playing. However, the second half and the overtimes Bostic hit big shot after big shot and was the better player. He did score a lot of points while Beigle and some other freshman were guarding him, but he did have a good go at McSweeny as well.

They both had impressive lines...McSweeny was 23 and 13 in 49 minutes, while Bostic was 23-9 in 56 minutes. Like I said I am usually a Bostic guy in this conversation, but in that game McSweeny probably had the better of him...

Also, I have to say that on that particular night number 44 Sean Stahn was an animal. While he was in the game he was the best player on the floor. I was suprised that the IC coach did not play him more than he did (23 minutes, but he did foul out with about 4 minutes left in the game. His stat line does not look that great but he was by far the most intense player for IC, and if he had not fouled out he would have changed the outcome of the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 19, 2007, 10:06:54 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 19, 2007, 09:51:54 AM
Yeah its going to be very interesting.  I think UofR will not get in as they didnt finish in the top 3 in their conference and have 7 losses. NYU will be in, bport win or lose in their tourny will be in, 1 team from the LL i think will get in, Fisher would be the 2nd at large after bport if bport looses.  I think they will get in as long as the make it to the conf. championship.  so if we have five teams from the east i see it as:

NYU
Bport (2 sunyacs if bport looses)
LL team
Fisher (2 if fisher looses)
not sure if the NEAC gets an automatic bid anymore if the do, then there will be one from that as well.

Lets just hope that bport wins the sunyac and st. lawrence wins the LL this year to make things less complicated.

If UR beats CMU (count on it), they will finish tied for 3rd in the conference (with the winner of NYU/Brandeis). 

They will have a QOWI that is very good, and in their last two meetings with "real" East Region opponents they spanked Fisher and Geneseo by a combined 60+ points.

St. Lawrence has a great QOWI and the 2nd best in-region record in the East (behind only Brockport and tied with Fisher).

Brockport is going to beat Cortland tomorrow night.  And when that happens, they could still lose in the first round of SUNYACs and get in the NCAA's.

My point is, the top of the East region is crowded.  No one really sticks out.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 19, 2007, 10:14:54 AM
I agree, its going to be pretty close.  I just thought UofR is behind wash U, Chicago, and NYU.  (i dont know if NYU lost this wkend or not).  I wouldnt think that the UAA would get 2 at large bids in the East Region.  However, i think both have the best chance to advance the farthest in the tourny. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 19, 2007, 10:29:13 AM
It's a strange year.  A strong case can be made for any of Brockport, Fisher, SLU, Hamilton, Rochester, and NYU.  Rochester and NYU are strictly Pool C contenders, as the UAA does not have a conference tournament.  Either SLU or Hamilton are going to be Pool C contenders because they can't both win the LL crown. 

Utica is going to be left out unless they win the E8 tournament -- what a difference two bad weekends makes. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 19, 2007, 11:07:58 AM
I think hamilton is done too unless they win their tourny.  I also think Fisher will get in over UofR (they will have atleast 1 less loss and out out of their losses they would have beaten everyteam atleast once that beat them this year.  UofR, Bport, Utica, Alfred, RIT (twice).  Bport i think has the edge over fisher in that they have less losses.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 19, 2007, 11:16:13 AM
ok so here it goes

Brockport-21-4 key wins Fisher
Fisher-21-5 key wins Utica, Brockport, UofR
SLU 20-5 no overly impressive wins
Hamilton 18-6 win over utica but loss to skidmore is embarassing
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 19, 2007, 11:26:32 AM
Well, this is the problem with those thoughts -  the NCAA considers the best teams in the region (before last weekend's games) to be as follows:

1. Brockport State 18-4 17-4, 10.286
2. St. Lawrence 18-5 17-5, 10.364
3. Rochester 16-6 16-5, 10.286
4 Hamilton 16-5 13-5, 10.000
5. Utica 18-4 17-4, 9.857

Port, SLU, and Hamilton did nothing to hurt themselves.  Rochester may fall slightly, but a loss to 20-4 Chicago isn't going to hurt them too much, especially when it was paired with a victory over 19-4 WashU.

Utica is out, probably replaced by Fisher.

My guess for this week's rankings are as follows:

1. Port
2. SLU
3. Hamilton
4. Rochester
5. Fisher

Again, how the NCAA ranks these teams is all that matters.  We'll have to wait and see who falls in the conference tourneys.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 19, 2007, 11:29:08 AM
the RIT game makes my nose twitch.
Any time you play a team that many times anything can happen.
If Fisher bows to RIT- chances of NCAA's look tough!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 19, 2007, 11:38:42 AM
Bamm, Agreed with everything below, except hamilton lost to a bad hobart team after those rankings were posted, so they are out now too in my opinion. so we have:

Bport State
St lawrence
Fisher
Rochester
NYU
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 19, 2007, 11:41:55 AM
Bport state
NYU
SLU
Rochester
Fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 19, 2007, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 19, 2007, 11:38:42 AM
Bamm, Agreed with everything below, except hamilton lost to a bad hobart team after those rankings were posted, so they are out now too in my opinion. so we have:

Bport State
St lawrence
Fisher
Rochester
NYU

Ah, forgot that Hamilton/Hobart game was on a Tuesday.  Then they are probably out as well, to the benefit of NYU.  It would surprise me to see anyone other than the five teams you listed in there, although Fisher/Rochester could be swapped. 

Brockport and SLU are probably the only two teams that, at least statistically, look safe at this point. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 19, 2007, 11:53:36 AM
I still dont know how St. lawrence would be higher then fisher. I know they have a higher QWI, but Fisher has beaten teams I dont think St. lawrence could (bport and UofR) and has also split with every team that has beaten them. If the NCAA doesnt go by the QWI i think Fisher gets in over SLU and should get in over them.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 19, 2007, 11:56:49 AM
After pouring over stats and taking into account other relevant considerations (that's for you, Fisher fans), here is my best guess as to how the all-conference teams will come out. Disclaimer: These are not MY personal thoughts, just the way I think things will shake out. There was a big logjam of players after the 1st team was decided, which makes it very difficult. I will have some explanations at the end. I'm sure this will draw the ire of many fans, especially the Fisher fans when I don't have their entire starting five on the first team, but without further ado:

COY: Rob Kornaker (Fisher)
ROY: Corey McAdam (Naz)
POY: Jan Cocozziello (Hartwick)

FIRST TEAM

Dan McSweeney (Fisher)
Ray Bryant (Utica)
Jan Cocozziello (Hartwick)
Joe Canori (Naz)
Doug Herring (Utica)

SECOND TEAM

Jeff Bostic (Ithaca)
Corey McAdam (Naz)
Justin Beigel (Fisher)
Sean Burton (Ithaca)
Dan Mueller (Fisher)

HONORABLE MENTION

Tim Bacon (RIT)
Kenny Gethers (RIT)
Rob McCarter (Alfred)
Sean Leahy (Ithaca)
Dillon Stein (Alfred)
Tyler Smith (Naz)

Also in the running for HM: Barrett Zeinfeld (RIT),  Brian Collier (UC), Jack Lighthall (UC), Cory Carson (HC), Chris Baltz (Fisher)

Ok, time for explanations:

1) I do not believe that Herring warrants being on the first team. If you look at the across-the-board numbers, Burton is better in more statistical categories. Their teams had the same record, essentially, so it'd be stupid to say that Herring deserves it more because Ithaca lost a meaningless game on the last day of the season. However, I think everyone viewed Herring as a potential POY candidate until his fade over the last three weeks and his reputation will help him get this honor.

2) I initially had Bostic on the first team. However, I can't see zero players from Fisher, the league champ, being on the first team. I think McSweeney will get this as a type of career achievement award, rather than earning it on the court. I could definitely still see Bostic being on the first team but, when it comes down to it, I'm sure the voters will do the whole "he has the next two years to be on first team" things, and end up giving it to McSweeney.

3) I think Burton, Mueller, other of McSweeney/Bostic will be locks for second team. However, it was tough to pick the other two slots. I went with McAdam because of the fact he excels in every facet of the game and Beigel (who was slipping) because he is a good player who had his best game of the year when it mattered most on Friday night. I could see Bacon or Naz's Tyler Smith getting on that team over either Beigel or McAdam (under the logic that he's only a freshman).

There it is, start trashing me now...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 19, 2007, 11:58:19 AM
The NCAA goes by their regional rankings.  Apparently they consider SLU more deserving than Fisher.  The rankings are all that matter.

Plattsburgh, RIT, Ithaca, and Vassar are their best wins.  But they only have one bad loss in terms of QOWI.  The other four losses are to Brockport, Vassar, and Hamilton (twice).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 19, 2007, 11:58:27 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 19, 2007, 11:41:55 AM
Bport state
NYU
SLU
Rochester
Fisher

I agree with this regional rankings...looks pretty solid to me. I can't imagine Fisher jumping ahead of U of R after the woodsheding that they put on Fisher last time they played.

As far as the NCAA's go I would say:

Teams that are in despite what happens to them in the conference tourny:
Brockport
St. Lawerence
Fisher

Teams that should be in if they take care of business the rest of the way
U of R
NYU

After that I think it gets pretty tough for teams. Fisher may even have to win a game in the tourny, but at 20-5 with some good wins they should be in.

U of R, do they have a tourny? I am not sure. If they do they may need to make a bit of a run. Despite their record they are still probably the most talented team in the region.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 19, 2007, 12:12:08 PM
gb15, no bashing here that is good...while I have stated time and time again I am completly against giving coco poy, I just don't see any one else to give it too...


although I'm going to start the Campaign give it to Fenyn...because he was so "good"
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 19, 2007, 12:14:27 PM
GB15 - Don't underestimate the role seniority seems to play in these awards.  Last season 8 of the 10 players on 1st and 2nd team were seniors.  When a voter could go either way, they tend to go for the seniors, which is why guys like Stein and Bacon will probably end up further up your chart.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 19, 2007, 12:16:27 PM
The main thing Fisher has to worry about is losing in the E8 Tourney, Brockport getting beat and Hamilton beating SLU in the LL title game. If that's the case, Brockport will definitely get an at-large. SLU's loss to Hamilton will do little to its QOWI number (E8 fans shouldn't complain about this because this is why Utica got in with three losses against Fisher last year; losses to good teams don't kill the QOWI) so they'd still have a higher number than Fisher. I think both NYU and UR are make it. UR's QOWI will likely go up because I think they earned 21 points this weekend (or was it 20?), so their average is 10.5 for those two games. The win over Wash U was big.

If Fisher can avoid these things, they're in great shape. That RIT game is looming large, though. How much would RIT love to ruin Fisher's season after Fisher has done the same to them for a few seasons in a row.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 19, 2007, 12:23:16 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 19, 2007, 12:14:27 PM
GB15 - Don't underestimate the role seniority seems to play in these awards.  Last season 8 of the 10 players on 1st and 2nd team were seniors.  When a voter could go either way, they tend to go for the seniors, which is why guys like Stein and Bacon will probably end up further up your chart.

Yeah, I thought about that, hence why I think McSweeney will be a likely 1st-teamer. As far as Stein goes, I think his numbers have actually regressed since last year and even his sophomore year. The guy, in our eyes, is surviving on the name he built for himself in his first two seasons. He, McCarter and Clemenson all came in the same year and Stein was by far the best. I think McCarter has passed him. I definitely don't think Stein has had a better year than any of the guys on the 2nd team. When I ranked the forwards/centers, I even had Gethers and Tyler Smith ranked in front of him. I think it would be ridiculous to put him on 2nd team.

When I was figuring this out last night, Bacon was the guy I was most undecided about. If he shot even 60% from the line, I think he'd be in the debate for potentially making 1st team. I just don't see who he'd replace. Bostic's numbers (worthy of 1st team) are way too good to knock him down to honorable mention. I would say that he may have had Beigel's spot were it not for Beigel's triple-double against Utica the other night. As I mentioned, maybe they won't put McAdam on the 2nd team because he's a freshman (which would show you how much really goes into these awards if one of the top two or three players in the league doesn't even make 2nd team). I like Bacon and I think he has a better shot than Stein. We'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 20, 2007, 08:35:38 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 19, 2007, 12:16:27 PM
The main thing Fisher has to worry about is losing in the E8 Tourney, Brockport getting beat and Hamilton beating SLU in the LL title game. If that's the case, Brockport will definitely get an at-large. SLU's loss to Hamilton will do little to its QOWI number (E8 fans shouldn't complain about this because this is why Utica got in with three losses against Fisher last year; losses to good teams don't kill the QOWI) so they'd still have a higher number than Fisher. I think both NYU and UR are make it. UR's QOWI will likely go up because I think they earned 21 points this weekend (or was it 20?), so their average is 10.5 for those two games. The win over Wash U was big.

If Fisher can avoid these things, they're in great shape. That RIT game is looming large, though. How much would RIT love to ruin Fisher's season after Fisher has done the same to them for a few seasons in a row.

I know there's been lots of discussion about SLU and Hamilton and who might make the tourney from the LL. There have been some who think SLU is a lock even if it doesn't win the LL tourney, but they are the second seed playing at Hamilton, a team they've already lost to twice. Plus, they are 10-4 in the league, which isn't as strong as the SUNYACs, although I think it's tougher than the E8. SLU also has league losses to Hobart and Vassar, as well as a 30-point drubbing at the hands of Bport. That's not too impressive. I think the LL only gets one team in the tourney — the conference tourney champ.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on February 20, 2007, 08:49:24 AM
Okay everyone..... trying not to look ahead, who gets in the tourament? Will any of these area teams host a first round game or 2nd round game? Fisher/Brockport will in my opinion. Also for the "sweet 16" IT SEEMS THAT AMHERST WILL HOST IT AGAIN! I BELIEVE IT WILL BE THE 4TH STRAIGHT YEAR! What does everyone else think? That one year was ridiculous when 3 out of the 4 teams in the "sweet 16" were from NY and had to go to Amherst. I just want to watch a "sweet 16" for once in NYS.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 20, 2007, 08:53:44 AM
Here's the latest QOWI numbers.

Rank   Points   Team
12   10.583   Brockport State
23   10.292   St. Lawrence
26   10.208   St. John Fisher
29   10.130   Rochester
42   9.870   New York University
48   9.762   Hamilton
67   9.435   Utica

And this is last week's East Region Rankings:

1. Brockport State 18-4 17-4, 10.286
2. St. Lawrence 18-5 17-5, 10.364
3. Rochester 16-6 16-5, 10.286
4 Hamilton 16-5 13-5, 10.000
5. Utica 18-4 17-4, 9.857

Hamilton and Utica will fall out of those rankings due to losses last week.  Given those numbers, SLU and Brockport are locks.  Fisher is damn close.  Rochester, too.  However, as we've been saying, if Fisher loses in the E8 their may not be room for them, UR, and NYU in the dance. 

Hamilton has to win the LL tourney.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 20, 2007, 09:04:31 AM
Agreed Bamm.  If hamilton wins the LL, Bport loses the SUNYAC and Fisher loses in the E8 there is going to be some tough decisions made to see who gets in.  If those events occur then I dont see both UofR and NYU getting in, I think it will be one or the other.  As far as Fisher goes, if both hamilton wins and Bport loses and they lose i dont think they will get in, But if only one happens I think they will.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on February 20, 2007, 03:21:23 PM
Corey McAdam makes d3hoops.com 'Team of the Week'

Ray Bryant made it earlier this season as well.



...and what are the match-ups this weekend at Fisher?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 20, 2007, 06:47:13 PM
rjcarter- I've asked this question before of people-  why do you think the Lib League is so weak?  I would think that if Hamilton beats SLU in the championship game (which I believe is probably the most likely scenario) both will get into the NCAA.  Everyone talks about the SUNYAC being so strong, but other the B-port who may be the best team in the east I haven't found the SUNYAC to be overly impressive this year.  LL bottom dwellers Clarkson beat Oswego on its home floor, beat Potsdam twice and lost to the second best team Plattsburg. They also had wins over RIT and Utica and they were 5-9 in their league? If Hamilton were to lose to SLU in the championship game they might have the most outside shot at a pool C bid but other than SJF and B-port no other team in either the e-8 or SUNYAC has a prayer of getting a pool C nod.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2007, 07:05:53 PM
Quote from: bjgiants6 on February 20, 2007, 08:49:24 AM
Okay everyone..... trying not to look ahead, who gets in the tourament? Will any of these area teams host a first round game or 2nd round game? Fisher/Brockport will in my opinion. Also for the "sweet 16" IT SEEMS THAT AMHERST WILL HOST IT AGAIN! I BELIEVE IT WILL BE THE 4TH STRAIGHT YEAR! What does everyone else think? That one year was ridiculous when 3 out of the 4 teams in the "sweet 16" were from NY and had to go to Amherst. I just want to watch a "sweet 16" for once in NYS.

If they're that good, they should keep hosting. If an NY team wants to host, it should get better.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 20, 2007, 07:32:04 PM
Pat it's hard to argue against that logic.  How would a NY school be able to get the advantage of hosting? Certainly SJF was undefeated one year going into the tournament and it wasn't an option.  UofR plays in what may be one of the toughest d-3 conferences in the nation and has had excellent teams but never seems to be considered in recent years.  I guess I'm just asking an experts advice on what it make take?  Several years of domination (like SJF or Amherst).  A flat out amazing squad with a QOWI off the chart?  Or do more subtle things like central location, facilities, attendence play a large factor?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 20, 2007, 08:53:53 PM
it's given to the highest ranked team in the region...and by ranked I mean the NCAA's rank
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 20, 2007, 09:38:09 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 20, 2007, 08:53:53 PM
it's given to the highest ranked team in the region...and by ranked I mean the NCAA's rank

Well, I think you know this Superman, but I'll issue a slight correction.  Amherst is, of course, in the NE region.  The teams in the E8, SUNYAC, and LL are in the East. 

There was confusion two years ago, a lot of people thought the NCAA chose Amherst to host when Fisher was undefeated because Fisher COULDN'T host (because they couldn't meet minimum capacity req's with their gym).  This was not the case -- the NCAA had Amherst as the #1 seed in that bracket and ranked ahead of Fisher.  Considering the spanking Potsdam put on Fisher it's hard to argue with their decision (even though Amherst lost to Rochester).

Last season Amherst held home court and smashed Fisher.  Again, hard to argue with their decision (although their wasn't as much controversy last year).

It wasn't long ago that Brockport hosted a regional.  That place was rocking for the Rochester/Brockport final (UR won).  It will happen again (not necessarily Port, but a NY team).  Amherst (or any NESCAC team) isn't going to go 25-1 every season. 

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 20, 2007, 09:40:16 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 20, 2007, 08:53:44 AM
Here's the latest QOWI numbers.

Rank   Points   Team
12   10.583   Brockport State
23   10.292   St. Lawrence
26   10.208   St. John Fisher
29   10.130   Rochester
42   9.870   New York University
48   9.762   Hamilton
67   9.435   Utica

And this is last week's East Region Rankings:

1. Brockport State 18-4 17-4, 10.286
2. St. Lawrence 18-5 17-5, 10.364
3. Rochester 16-6 16-5, 10.286
4 Hamilton 16-5 13-5, 10.000
5. Utica 18-4 17-4, 9.857

Hamilton and Utica will fall out of those rankings due to losses last week.  Given those numbers, SLU and Brockport are locks.  Fisher is damn close.  Rochester, too.  However, as we've been saying, if Fisher loses in the E8 their may not be room for them, UR, and NYU in the dance. 

Hamilton has to win the LL tourney.



I agree with most of this...it looks pretty good to me, what do you think the East region rankings  will look like?
I agree Hamilton needs to win the tourny. I think SLU and Brockport are locks...but I also think Fisher is as close to a lock as you can get without being 100% in. barring a complete colapse against RIT...If they get waxed that will really really hurt.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 20, 2007, 10:08:58 PM
bamm, your right I should of clarfied my comment...when I say region I mean old school NCAA there are 4 regions that host the qualifyers up to the NCAA final 4
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 20, 2007, 10:46:36 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on February 20, 2007, 09:40:16 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 20, 2007, 08:53:44 AM
Here's the latest QOWI numbers.

Rank   Points   Team
12   10.583   Brockport State
23   10.292   St. Lawrence
26   10.208   St. John Fisher
29   10.130   Rochester
42   9.870   New York University
48   9.762   Hamilton
67   9.435   Utica

And this is last week's East Region Rankings:

1. Brockport State 18-4 17-4, 10.286
2. St. Lawrence 18-5 17-5, 10.364
3. Rochester 16-6 16-5, 10.286
4 Hamilton 16-5 13-5, 10.000
5. Utica 18-4 17-4, 9.857

Hamilton and Utica will fall out of those rankings due to losses last week.  Given those numbers, SLU and Brockport are locks.  Fisher is damn close.  Rochester, too.  However, as we've been saying, if Fisher loses in the E8 their may not be room for them, UR, and NYU in the dance. 

Hamilton has to win the LL tourney.



I agree with most of this...it looks pretty good to me, what do you think the East region rankings  will look like?
I agree Hamilton needs to win the tourny. I think SLU and Brockport are locks...but I also think Fisher is as close to a lock as you can get without being 100% in. barring a complete colapse against RIT...If they get waxed that will really really hurt.

I don't think it has anything to do with a "collapse" if they lose to RIT. The Tigers beat Fisher on their home floor in their first meeting at Fisher and each of the three games between the two schools has been pretty evenly matched. I think if RIT can withstand the barrage that Fisher always throws at teams in the first 8 minutes, it'll be tight throughous.

Also, I think you fail to realize that if Fisher doesn't beat RIT, it's no longer about Fisher. What I mean by that is the Cardinals' fate would be in the hands of what goes on in the LL and SUNYAC Tournaments. Assuming Fisher loses to RIT, here is what I would say Fisher's at-large chances look like based on what goes on in the LL and SUNYAC tourneys:

-SLU wins LL Tourney, Brockport takes SUNYAC Tourney (Fisher definitely in)

-Hamilton wins LL Tourney, Brockport wins SUNYAC Tourney (Fisher likely still makes it, but it will be close because of SLU's better QOWI and the competition from NYU for an at-large)

-SLU wins LL Tourney, someone besides Brockport wins SUNYAC's (again, see the situation immediately above; I think Fisher still has a good shot under such a scenario, but it wouldn't be definite)

-Hamilton wins LL Tourney and someone besides Brockport wins SUNYAC's (this is Fisher's nightmare scenario, assuming the loss to RIT; if this comes to fruition, I think the Cards will be sweating come Sunday night and there's a solid chance they could be left out of the field)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 20, 2007, 10:50:37 PM
in all honesty I will be disapointed if Fisher does not make the NCAA's but will it be a complete disapointment no...they really were not supposed to be that good this year...wait till these players have a chance to mature fisher could be dangerous
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 20, 2007, 10:58:25 PM
I'll tell ya right now, St. Lawrence isn't winning the LL tournament.  They've got Vassar in the semifinals; Vassar beat them in Canton and SLU nicked 'em by 3 in OT at Vassar in the most exciting game I've been at all year, D1 or D3.  Even if they get by the Brewers, Hamilton beat the Saints soundly twice...and round 3 is at Hamilton.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 21, 2007, 08:20:25 AM
Latest QOWI numbers.  UR jumped Fisher after last night's games.

Overall rk   Points   In-reg   Team   Region Win%   Overall
10   10.400   1   Brockport State   0.840 (21-4)   22-4
15   10.292   2   St. Lawrence   0.792 (19-5)   20-5
19   10.217   3   Rochester   0.739 (17-6)   17-7
21   10.208   4   St. John Fisher   0.792 (19-5)   20-5
38   9.870   5   New York University   0.783 (18-5)   19-5
46   9.762   6   Hamilton   0.714 (15-6)   18-6
62   9.348   7   Utica   0.739 (17-6)   18-6
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 21, 2007, 08:54:18 AM
Keep in mind, what happens in the NE conference tournaments will certainly impact Pool C bids from the East. 

The NESCAC looks like a 2 bid league, with both Amherst and Trinity certain Pool C-ers.  East teams need WPI, who Utica beat in the tournament last year, to win their tournament, as no one else there will get in otherwise.  The same applies to a couple of other leagues (Rhode Island College is a certain Pool C-er if they lose, although I don't know if that league has a postseason tournament).

Just wanted to point out that other tourneys outside of NY are going to impact what happens to the Pool C hopes of Fisher, Rochester/NYU, and Hamilton.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 21, 2007, 12:52:24 PM
Just thought I'd take a look to see how the Northeast and East region QOWI's stack up aganist each other. It may have been overkill, but I grabbed the top 20 teams in each region, then compiled the combined list to the top 40 overall. It's clear to see the Northeast Region has teams with much higher QOWI than the East Region.

Northeast Region  (Region rank, QOWI, Overall rank, Team, Conference, Region win pct., Region record, Overall record)
1.   11.625 (1) Amherst (NESCAC)   0.958 (23-1)   24-1
2.    10.950 (3) Trinity (Conn.) (NESCAC)   0.850 (17-3)   21-3
3.    10.810 (4) Worcester Polytech (NEWMAC)   0.905 (19-2)   21-2
4.    10.708 (5) Salem State (MASCAC)   0.920 (23-2)   23-2
5.    10.520 (8) Rhode Island College (LEC)   0.880 (22-3)   22-3
6.    10.217 (20) Keene State (LEC)   0.826 (19-4)   22-4
7.    10.125 (25) Brandeis (UAA)   0.750 (18-6)   18-6
8.    9.792 (42) Bates (NESCAC)   0.708 (17-7)   18-7
9.    9.708 (49) Husson (NAC)   0.875 (21-3)   21-5
10.    9.360 (61) Tufts (NESCAC)   0.600 (15-10)   15-10
11.    9.346 (63) Western New England (GNAC)   0.731 (19-7)   19-7
12.    9.292 (67) Babson (NEWMAC)   0.625 (15-9)   16-9
13.    9.250 (69) Bridgewater State (MASCAC)   0.708 (17-7)   17-7
14.    9.190 (72) Colby (NESCAC)   0.667 (14-7)   15-10
15.    8.870 (95) Gordon (CCC)   0.696 (16-7)   19-7
16.    8.800 (97) Elms (NAC)   0.680 (17-8)   18-8
17.    8.800 (98) Lasell (NAC)   0.600 (15-10)   16-10
18.    8.720 (103) Endicott (CCC)   0.600 (15-10)   15-10
19.   8.696 (108) Williams (NESCAC)   0.565 (13-10)   14-11
20.   8.600 (114) Middlebury (NESCAC)   0.600 (15-10)   15-10

East Region (Region rank, QOWI, Overall rank, Team, Conference, Region win pct., Region record, Overall record)
1.    10.400 (10) Brockport State (SUNYAC)   0.840 (21-4)   22-4
2.    10.292 (15) St. Lawrence (LL)   0.792 (19-5)   20-5
3.    10.217 (19) Rochester (UAA)   0.739 (17-6)   17-7
4.    10.208 (21) St. John Fisher (E8)   0.792 (19-5)   20-5
5.     9.870 (38) New York University (UAA)   0.783 (18-5)   19-5
6.     9.762 (46) Hamilton (LL)   0.714 (15-6)   18-6
7.     9.348 (62) Utica (E8)   0.739 (17-6)   18-6
8.     9.190 (71) Plattsburgh State (SUNYAC)   0.714 (15-6)   18-8
9.     8.727 (101) Vassar (LL)   0.636 (14-8)   15-9
10.   8.696 (107) Oswego State (SUNYAC)   0.609 (14-9)   15-11
11.   8.680 (111) Clarkson (LL)   0.560 (14-11)   14-11
12.   8.667 (113) Geneseo State (SUNYAC)   0.583 (14-10)   15-11
13.    8.522 (117) Rochester Tech (E8)   0.565 (13-10)   14-11
14.    8.429 (125) Ithaca (E8)  0.571 (12-9)   14-11
15.    8.391 (127) SUNYIT (SUNYAC)   0.609 (14-9)   16-10
16.    7.917 (160) RPI (LL)   0.500 (12-12)   13-12
17.    7.857 (169) Union (LL)   0.524 (11-10)   11-13
18.    7.773 (174) Alfred (E8)  0.455 (10-12)   10-14
19. 7.727 (178) Buffalo State (SUNYAC)   0.455 (10-12)   12-13
20. 7.708 (181) Hobart (LL)   0.417 (10-14)   11-14

Here are the combined regional rankings based on QOWI. In the event of a tie, and there are a few, I ranked the teams in order of their overall rank.

Combined Regions (Northeast and East)
1. (NE1)   11.625 (1) Amherst (NESCAC)   0.958 (23-1)   24-1
2. (NE2)   10.950 (3) Trinity (Conn.) (NESCAC)   0.850 (17-3)   21-3
3. (NE3)   10.810 (4) Worcester Polytech (NEWMAC)   0.905 (19-2)   21-2
4. (NE4)   10.708 (5) Salem State (MASCAC)   0.920 (23-2)   23-2
5. (NE5)   10.520 (8) Rhode Island College (LEC)   0.880 (22-3)   22-3
6. (E1)   10.400 (10) Brockport State (SUNYAC)   0.840 (21-4)   22-4
7. (E2)   10.292 (15) St. Lawrence (LL)   0.792 (19-5)   20-5
8. (E3)   10.217 (19) Rochester (UAA)   0.739 (17-6)   17-7
tie (NE6)   10.217 (20) Keene State (LEC)   0.826 (19-4)   22-4
10. (E4)    10.208 (21) St. John Fisher (E8)   0.792 (19-5)   20-5
11. (NE7)    10.125 (25) Brandeis (UAA)   0.750 (18-6)   18-6
12. (E5)     9.870 (38) New York University (UAA)   0.783 (18-5)   19-5
13. (NE8)    9.792 (42) Bates (NESCAC)   0.708 (17-7)   18-7
14. (E6)     9.762 (46) Hamilton (LL)   0.714 (15-6)   18-6
15. (NE9)    9.708 (49) Husson (NAC)   0.875 (21-3)   21-5
16. (NE10)    9.360 (61) Tufts (NESCAC)   0.600 (15-10)   15-10
17. (E7)      9.348 (62) Utica (E8)   0.739 (17-6)   18-6
18. (NE11)   9.346 (63) Western New England (GNAC)   0.731 (19-7)   19-7
19. (NE12)    9.292 (67) Babson (NEWMAC)   0.625 (15-9)   16-9
20. (NE13)    9.250 (69) Bridgewater State (MASCAC)   0.708 (17-7)   17-7
21. (E8)        9.190 (71) Plattsburgh State (SUNYAC)   0.714 (15-6)   18-8
tie (NE14)    9.190 (72) Colby (NESCAC)   0.667 (14-7)   15-10
23. (NE15)    8.870 (95) Gordon (CCC)   0.696 (16-7)   19-7
24. (NE16)    8.800 (97) Elms (NAC)   0.680 (17-8)   18-8
tie (NE17)    8.800 (98) Lasell (NAC)   0.600 (15-10)   16-10
26. (E9)        8.727 (101) Vassar (LL)   0.636 (14-8)   15-9
27. (NE18)    8.720 (103) Endicott (CCC)   0.600 (15-10)   15-10
28. (E10)      8.696 (107) Oswego State (SUNYAC)   0.609 (14-9)   15-11
tie (NE19)      8.696 (108) Williams (NESCAC)   0.565 (13-10)   14-11
30. (E11)      8.680 (111) Clarkson (LL)   0.560 (14-11)   14-11
31. (E12)       8.667 (113) Geneseo State (SUNYAC)   0.583 (14-10)   15-11
32. (NE20)   8.600 (114) Middlebury (NESCAC)   0.600 (15-10)   15-10
33. (E13)       8.522 (117) Rochester Tech (E8)   0.565 (13-10)   14-11
34. (E14)       8.429 (125) Ithaca (E8)  0.571 (12-9)   14-11
35. (E15)       8.391 (127) SUNYIT (SUNYAC)   0.609 (14-9)   16-10
36. (E16)       7.917 (160) RPI (LL)   0.500 (12-12)   13-12
37. (E17)       7.857 (169) Union (LL)   0.524 (11-10)   11-13
38. (E18)       7.773 (174) Alfred (E8)  0.455 (10-12)   10-14
39. (E19)      7.727 (178) Buffalo State (SUNYAC)   0.455 (10-12)   12-13
40. (E20)      7.708 (181) Hobart (LL)   0.417 (10-14)   11-14

I know some of these teams will get their conference bids, but there are plenty for Pool C too.

Anyone have any thoughts about Pool C bids after seeing this?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 21, 2007, 03:53:16 PM
The final East Regional rankings are out:

bport
fisher
slu
nyu
rochester

from looking at that I would have to say Fisher is almost a lock to make it in the NCAA's.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 21, 2007, 04:05:56 PM
SLU didn't lose and dropped a spot.  Ouch.

Fisher will still be sweating if they lose this weekend, especially if there are upsets elsewhere, and if Rochester and NYU both win their respective games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 21, 2007, 04:33:01 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 21, 2007, 04:05:56 PM
SLU didn't lose and dropped a spot.  Ouch.

Fisher will still be sweating if they lose this weekend, especially if there are upsets elsewhere, and if Rochester and NYU both win their respective games.

Wow, how is Fisher three slots ahead of Rochester? Comparing the two conferences is like comparing the Big East to the MAAC.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 21, 2007, 05:07:56 PM
What a year so far for Fisher, finishing 2nd im the East is way above expectations. Gobombers how can you say how is fisher finishing 3 slots ahead of rochester they have 2 less losses (not as tough of a schedule) but still that gets taken into consideration.  Fisher also did beat UofR once, I know they got slaughtered the 2nd time but every game is a game, the two teams are very comparible regardless of the 30 point loss.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on February 21, 2007, 07:42:11 PM
SLU did lose the day or the day after the last regional rankings came out!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 21, 2007, 08:26:53 PM
After looking at the QOWI I was starting to think that Fisher may need two wins this weekend but, now that the new East Region rankings have them at 2...I am starting to think they are a lock again. That should really help them with a selection.

I am suprised that they are all the way up to 2. I thought they would jump into the rankings, and jump up to as high as maybe 3. Don't get me wrong I think Fisher is having a great year. As a fan you have to get excited about the future. They only graduate 2 players (granted they are McSweeny and Mueller).

Still pumped about this season so far...and I still think that Fisher is a lock for the tourny.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 21, 2007, 09:21:14 PM
Having seen both teams this season (Fisher several times), I feel pretty confident saying any matchup between UR and Fisher now would more likely end up like their second meeting (UR blowout) than the first (narrow Fisher win).  But all that matters to QOWI is that Fisher win early in the year, which is huge for them.

Quote from: bports on February 21, 2007, 07:42:11 PM
SLU did lose the day or the day after the last regional rankings came out!!

No, they didn't.  Their last loss was on 2/10 to Hobart -- a Saturday.  Last week's Regional Rankings came out last Wednesday, four days after the loss.  Since then they have won two games and still fell behind Fisher.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 21, 2007, 09:22:04 PM
Having seen both teams this season (Fisher several times), I feel pretty confident saying any matchup between UR and Fisher now would more likely end up like their second meeting (UR blowout) than the first (narrow Fisher win).  But all that matters to QOWI is that Fisher win early in the year, which is huge for them.

Quote from: bports on February 21, 2007, 07:42:11 PM
SLU did lose the day or the day after the last regional rankings came out!!

No, they didn't.  Their last loss was on 2/10 to Hobart -- a Saturday.  Last week's Regional Rankings came out last Wednesday (2/14), four days after the loss.  Since then they have won two games and still fell behind Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 21, 2007, 09:30:31 PM
Bamm I wouldnt judge too quickly.  I've watch fisher many times this year as well.  I know at times it does seem like this team is lucky to have the record they have or to squeeze out games. They just dont look right sometimes, are very young, and overall arnt as talented as years past.  However, when the freshman (baltz and newman) step up dont play like freshmen then they can beat just about anybody. I think years team will have a tough time beating really good teams consecutively but can beat some if they are on.  They have come on a lot at the end of the season so we'll see.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 21, 2007, 11:19:35 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 21, 2007, 05:07:56 PM
What a year so far for Fisher, finishing 2nd im the East is way above expectations. Gobombers how can you say how is fisher finishing 3 slots ahead of rochester they have 2 less losses (not as tough of a schedule) but still that gets taken into consideration.  Fisher also did beat UofR once, I know they got slaughtered the 2nd time but every game is a game, the two teams are very comparible regardless of the 30 point loss.

Saying something to the effect of "they have two less losses, but UR does have a tougher schedule" is absurd. Gee, do you think maybe, just MAYBE, that there's a correlation there. Three spots! Fisher has not earned a rank three spots higher than UR. You can let your loyalist feelings blind you here, but everyone not affiliated with Fisher would agree with that. UR WAXED Fisher by 30 points on a neutral floor. 30! And it's not like UR was losing to the bottom-dwellers of the UAA. Each of their five conference losses were to teams that currently hold a conference record of 8-5 or better in that league. I can say with 100% certainty that Fisher would have been, at best, the fifth best team in that league this year. There is no way in hell that Fisher should be three spots ahead of UR right now. None.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 21, 2007, 11:51:00 PM
gb15 we can agree all we want, but the powers that be obviously saw something we didn't
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 22, 2007, 07:45:09 AM
According to the QOWI as of Tuesday, Rochester is actually ahead of Fisher by one spot.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 22, 2007, 08:36:16 AM
FisherDynasty -- I'm not being quick to judge.  As I said, I've seen plenty of basketball from these two teams this season.  From that experience, I am saying that I think UR would beat Fisher handily again.

UR being 3 spots below the Cards, based on the merits of their schedules/wins/losses, is strange.  My guess is those rankings are pretty volatile, and a slip by any one of those teams (other than Port) would cost them dearly.





Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 22, 2007, 09:26:00 AM
gb15 you should be happy that an E8 team is ranked 2nd in the East, atleast someone holds down the conference reputation from very weak to okay.  And I guarantee if Fisher and UofR play again it will be a very tight game.  Fishers big guys are better then UofR's, UofR's guards are better.  anyways, idk why your surprised, UofR has 2 more losses then fisher they would be ranked lower, yes they play a tougher schedule but if you dont remember last year, UofR didnt even get in to the tournament because they had too many losses.  A loss is a loss tough schedule or not.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 22, 2007, 09:44:33 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 22, 2007, 09:26:00 AM
And I guarantee if Fisher and UofR play again it will be a very tight game.  Fishers big guys are better then UofR's, UofR's guards are better.  anyways, idk why your surprised, UofR has 2 more losses then fisher they would be ranked lower, yes they play a tougher schedule but if you dont remember last year, UofR didnt even get in to the tournament because they had too many losses.  A loss is a loss tough schedule or not. 

Why are Fisher's big men better than Onyurika and the other guy who's name I can't spell?

They have nearly identical stats, only the UR bigs play in a bigger, more physical league.  Beigel and McSweeney are good players, but they aren't clearly better than the bigs UR puts on the floor.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 22, 2007, 09:51:07 AM
Well in the 05-06 season mcsweeney and beigel dominated.  The Fisher win at home they also out played the UofR bigs, I didnt see the 2nd game the blow out. Mcsweeney and Onyreka are close but id go with Mcsweeney as he is a little better at taking it to the basket and definatly beigal over the other big for UofR who hasnt been a factor any time i've seen him play.  Again, the discrepancy isn't huge, therefore, the guards have to play above their means to beat UofR again. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on February 22, 2007, 10:03:21 AM
first things first fisherdyn, you think fishers big men are better then the ones at UR? thats outrageous, give me whatever you're smoking.

second..

all conference teams?!

POY-Ray Bryant
ROY-COrey McAdams

1st team

bostic
bryant
burton
herring
mcsweeny

2nd

bacon
beigel
coco
c. mcadams
mccarter
mueller

notables missing: canori, stein...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 22, 2007, 10:09:41 AM
what am i smoking? i dont think my opinion is that far out of reach.  Onyreka cannot do anything if he catches the ball 10 ft from the basket, he is useless unless he gets the ball directly on the block.  Their 4 man, is the same, and also plays very soft so he isnt even that great on the block, he has no post moves.  Snider comes in and is a stiff, he is no good, can set a few good screens thats it, and Milbrand is very limited as well.  I would take smalt, mcsweeny, and beigal any day of the year. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2007, 10:48:35 AM
FD, you're ripping apart a team that beat you by 30 on a neutral court. Where does that leave Fisher? UR obviously does something pretty well to be as good as they are. It's obvious we see things differently when it comes to McSweeney, especially if you're now saying that he's a better player than Onyiruka. I'm not sure what McSweeney's ever done in his career to warrant being considered on the same plain as him, so maybe you can enlighten me there.

"A loss is a loss, tough schedule or not."-FD

Luckily, the tournament committee disagrees with you there. A loss to Alfred is not the same as a loss to Chicago or Wash U., regardless of what cliches you want to throw out there. That's a fact. UR has a higher QOWI with two more losses and three less wins. Temper your enthusiasm for Fisher a little bit, you can't compare 17-7 in the UAA to 20-5 playing in the E8. Fisher's probably the third best team in Rochester right now. Are you going to disagree with that, too?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 22, 2007, 10:49:15 AM
Quote from: e8bballfan on February 22, 2007, 10:03:21 AM
first things first fisherdyn, you think fishers big men are better then the ones at UR? thats outrageous, give me whatever you're smoking.

second..

all conference teams?!

POY-Ray Bryant
ROY-COrey McAdams

1st team

bostic
bryant
burton
herring
mcsweeny

2nd

bacon
beigel
coco
c. mcadams
mccarter
mueller

notables missing: canori, stein...

wow coco got robbed...it looks like winning means something...I'm not thrilled with the bryant pick, but it's not an awful pick...I would have to do some more research on the teams to see how they are, but right off the bat Mueller over Canori and burton over coco look odd to me
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2007, 11:09:18 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 22, 2007, 10:49:15 AM
Quote from: e8bballfan on February 22, 2007, 10:03:21 AM
first things first fisherdyn, you think fishers big men are better then the ones at UR? thats outrageous, give me whatever you're smoking.

second..

all conference teams?!

POY-Ray Bryant
ROY-COrey McAdams

1st team

bostic
bryant
burton
herring
mcsweeny

2nd

bacon
beigel
coco
c. mcadams
mccarter
mueller

notables missing: canori, stein...

wow coco got robbed...it looks like winning means something...I'm not thrilled with the bryant pick, but it's not an awful pick...I would have to do some more research on the teams to see how they are, but right off the bat Mueller over Canori and burton over coco look odd to me

Wow, the #1 and #2 scorers in conference play make 2nd team and Honorable Mention, respectively. Very surprising. I have no problems with most of the selections. I agree that Cocozziello should be bumped up to first team and there should be six guys on that team. Burton deserves first team, he was Ithaca's most important player all season. He makes their offense 5x more efficient than it was in past years with other PG's running the show (errr, Whetstone).

Also, for those in other cities/states that can't attend the E8 Tournaments, here is the link to sign up:

www.pennatlantic.com
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 22, 2007, 11:46:00 AM
Gb15, did i once say fisher was better then UofR? i think you UofR is better overall.  They are better coached and have stronger guard play with solid big guys.  the only argument ive made is that fishers bigs are better, which they are.  also what has mcsweeney done to warrant being considered on the same plain as onyereka? what has he done to be considered so great? take his team to no post season tournament last year? Yeah they beat fisher by 30, big deal, a game is a game, UofR came out on fire and the game was over from there.  Do you honestly think UofR will blow fisher out in a rematch? you are crazy.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2007, 12:16:51 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 22, 2007, 11:46:00 AM
Gb15, did i once say fisher was better then UofR? i think you UofR is better overall.  They are better coached and have stronger guard play with solid big guys.  the only argument ive made is that fishers bigs are better, which they are.  also what has mcsweeney done to warrant being considered on the same plain as onyereka? what has he done to be considered so great? take his team to no post season tournament last year? Yeah they beat fisher by 30, big deal, a game is a game, UofR came out on fire and the game was over from there.  Do you honestly think UofR will blow fisher out in a rematch? you are crazy.

I think if Fisher played UR today, on a neutral court, UR would be about a 10-12 point favorite. I don't think that's "tight" unless you go to the Utica school of estimating what a close game is. As far as talking junk about UR not making the tourney last year, that holds no merit with me. That's like a fan of Vermont this year poo-poohing a UConn fan because they didn't make the tourney for one year. I mean, the team was playing for the National Title the year before and lost an unbelievable amount of talent from that team; they're allowed a down year, especially in that conference. Has McSweeney played in a title game? I don't think he has. Do I think Onyiruka is better than McSweeney? Of course. I'd say he's better than Bostic, too, because he is. McSweeney plays in a conference where he can get by on athletic ability alone. In watching him during his first three years, I never ONCE saw Fisher dump the ball in the post to him and him do a post move. Everything was alley-oops and putbacks. I don't think you can compare how refined McSweeney and Onyiruka's games are.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 22, 2007, 01:19:15 PM
your entitled to your opinion.  I still disagree.  Also the 10-12 pt favorite is your opinion again, i think it would be more of a 4-5 pt favorite.  Yes onyreka played for the title game, but did he lead his team no, he was only a role player.  Yes mcsweeney does play in a conf where he gets by on athleticism, but he has matched up with onyreka 3 times and has won 2 out of the 3 battles.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on February 22, 2007, 01:35:47 PM
QuoteMcSweeney plays in a conference where he can get by on athletic ability alone. In watching him during his first three years, I never ONCE saw Fisher dump the ball in the post to him and him do a post move. Everything was alley-oops and putbacks. I don't think you can compare how refined McSweeney and Onyiruka's games are.

Just curious GB15, how do you think Onyiruka gets his points? 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 22, 2007, 01:53:30 PM
Onyurika and McSweeney are similar players with almost identical stats, which is why I originally objected to FD's assertion that Fisher's bigs were better than Rochester's.

As to the All-Conference teams... I think Kornaker was the right choice for COY.  With everything they lost they remained near the top of the conference all season.

I'll be at the games this weekend... not a lot of discussion about Utica the last few days, it's like we've given them up for dead.  I hope the Pioneers show up and play well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 22, 2007, 02:26:19 PM
Bamm & Super - thanks for the lowdown on how the site is selected for the NCAA.  It looks again to me that the voting for the league allstars is extremely slanted towards upper classman (seniors in particular) and winning teams.  Though I haven't seen Coco play by all accounts from people I trust, the guy is absolutely a 1st teamer.  As far as Fisher being a lock.  I'm not so sure yet. A loss in the first round to RIT could put them in jeopardy.  A loss in the championship to Ithaca would not help the QOWI either.  A loss to Utica and they probably are in.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2007, 02:28:58 PM
Quote from: dmcclintock on February 22, 2007, 01:35:47 PM
QuoteMcSweeney plays in a conference where he can get by on athletic ability alone. In watching him during his first three years, I never ONCE saw Fisher dump the ball in the post to him and him do a post move. Everything was alley-oops and putbacks. I don't think you can compare how refined McSweeney and Onyiruka's games are.

Just curious GB15, how do you think Onyiruka gets his points? 

UR hasn't changed its offensive scheme in years. They've always been an inside-out team. Onyiruka does score points on post moves. You can't really tell me that Onyiruka's stats wouldn't go up playing in the E8 and McSweeney's stats wouldn't go down playing in the UAA. And if you do tell me that, I'll probably laugh and not take your posts seriously.

Quote from: bamm on February 22, 2007, 01:53:30 PM

I'll be at the games this weekend... not a lot of discussion about Utica the last few days, it's like we've given them up for dead.  I hope the Pioneers show up and play well.

Well, what has Utica ever done to make us believe that they can beat Fisher on Fisher's court? I think Utica's best chance is to hope RIT pulls the upset and then beat RIT. This is assuming that they will beat Ithaca. A lot depends on how healthy Bryant is.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2007, 02:31:19 PM
Quote from: b4the3isme on February 22, 2007, 02:26:19 PM
Bamm & Super - thanks for the lowdown on how the site is selected for the NCAA.  It looks again to me that the voting for the league allstars is extremely slanted towards upper classman (seniors in particular) and winning teams.  Though I haven't seen Coco play by all accounts from people I trust, the guy is absolutely a 1st teamer.  As far as Fisher being a lock.  I'm not so sure yet. A loss in the first round to RIT could put them in jeopardy.  A loss in the championship to Ithaca would not help the QOWI either.  A loss to Utica and they probably are in.

I'm really surprised Canori was only honorable mention. Probably one of, if not the best shooter in the league and just a flat out scorer. I'd say that's more surprising to me than Coco on second team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 22, 2007, 03:20:54 PM
gb I know you follow this really closely so I trust your statement.  I just think the habitual underachievement of Nazareth must play in also.  Is Canori a soph or Junior? That probably is an overwhelming factor too.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 22, 2007, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 22, 2007, 02:28:58 PM

Well, what has Utica ever done to make us believe that they can beat Fisher on Fisher's court? I think Utica's best chance is to hope RIT pulls the upset and then beat RIT. This is assuming that they will beat Ithaca. A lot depends on how healthy Bryant is.


Nothing.  But you could have said the same thing about RIT a couple of weeks ago.  Any of these teams is capable of winning this thing.  The game last weekend was over in the first five minutes (Technical to start the game, Bryant injury).  Utica just got blitzed -- not the first time or the last time that will happen to a team @ Fisher. 

Over the last several years Fisher has vacillated between just squeaking out wins and blowing good teams out in this tournament.  Given their relative diminished talent, there's no way to know what could happen this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 22, 2007, 04:05:45 PM
I agree Bamm, this years tourny is any teams chance to get into the tourny. Predictions for this weekend:

Fisher over RIT by +5-9
Utica over Ithaca +3.5

Fisher over Utica +3
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 22, 2007, 05:05:16 PM
Wouldn't it be amazing if it was an IC-RIT final?

I don't think that'll happen, but crazy things sometimes do happen during weekend tourneys.

If such a scenario were to occur, it would raise two questions:
1) Would there be a second E8 rep in the NCAA tourney?
2) Who's better: Fisher or Utica?

I say no to the first one, and the second would probably depend on the outcome of the first round games, because the the two split during the regular season, but Fisher has a better record. On the other hand, choking at your own building in the first round is a lot different than choking on the road.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dmcclintock on February 22, 2007, 05:21:14 PM
QuoteUR hasn't changed its offensive scheme in years. They've always been an inside-out team. Onyiruka does score points on post moves. You can't really tell me that Onyiruka's stats wouldn't go up playing in the E8 and McSweeney's stats wouldn't go down playing in the UAA. And if you do tell me that, I'll probably laugh and not take your posts seriously

I am well aware of UofR's offensive patterns.  The argument is between Mcsweeneys and Onyirukas game.  Sure Onyiruka does score some points in the post but his post moves are in no way refined. Mcsweeney scores in the post 2.  Both of them seem to rely on the putbacks more so than anyother way of scoring.  I do think Mcsweeney is the better player but I would not call either of their games refined.  Both use their athleticism.  An example of  refined game is Seth Hauben and neither player possesses that.  Oh well

Exciting Week for the E8

Are the Frosh for Fisher going to handle the pressure?
Will Utica crawl out of their late season woes?
Can RIT pull off another upset?
Will Ithaca kick Utica while they are down?

Who knows...its playoff time
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 22, 2007, 07:50:36 PM
Should be a great weekend for E8 basketball this weekend. I have to say that fisher is the favorite being at home. I think Utica's chances all depend on if Bryant can play or not. Ithaca and RIT could both be suprise winners in the first round. I think it will be tough for either to win...unless of course they both win on Friday, but I do not see either of them beating Fisher and Utica on back to back nights.

I see it like this:

Fisher +8 against RIT
Utica even against Ithaca...I will guess UC because I think Bryant will play. Maybe +3

and I ill take Fisher over UC by 5 in the championship.


I have an obvious bias, and it probably shows. However, I really do think that Fisher is the best/most talented team in the league, if the freshan show up and handle the pressure.

GO FISHER...good luck to all teams.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 22, 2007, 08:25:53 PM
For the sake of the E8 lets hope fisher wins, they are the only ones that stand a chance of doing any damage since they have two solid big guys with playoff NCAA experience.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reelentless on February 22, 2007, 09:51:25 PM
QuoteFD - For the sake of the E8 lets hope fisher wins, they are the only ones that stand a chance of doing any damage since they have two solid big guys with playoff NCAA experience.

I don't think the E8 would be too badly represented by Bryant and Lighthall.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 22, 2007, 10:11:27 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 22, 2007, 08:25:53 PM
For the sake of the E8 lets hope fisher wins, they are the only ones that stand a chance of doing any damage since they have two solid big guys with playoff NCAA experience.

What is damage, exactly?  Getting killed in Amherst for the third straight year?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 22, 2007, 10:21:08 PM
hey losing to amherst is nothing to be ashamed of...they are an incredible team...and are my pick to go back to the final 4 from the east
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on February 22, 2007, 10:38:26 PM
Bryant didn't do any damage in NCAA's last year??
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 22, 2007, 10:44:58 PM
but lil eyes this Utica team is not as consistent as last years team...I mean how do you lose 3 straight games when you needed to win to win the conference
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 22, 2007, 11:15:55 PM
Just wanted to see the reactions form that comment, thought id stir things up a little bit, which it seems I do a lot.  No i think Utica could beat some NE teams, just no real national powers, probably not fisher either, but Fisher would have the better chance.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 23, 2007, 08:10:41 AM
Honestly- the RIT game gives me the willeeeeeeees!
Home i know-  yet still this one is poised to be the spoiler!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on February 23, 2007, 12:07:20 PM
Well, all that matters really is the post-season. 

I think we should all hope...not just Utica fans...that Bryant is healthy and Utica plays the way that they can so the E8 can have the best representation they can. 

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 23, 2007, 12:14:54 PM
well said!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2007, 02:51:20 PM
Predictions for tonight's games:

RIT      63
Fisher  69

I think this one will be fairly tight throughout. Fisher will open up the lead to 8 or 9 a couple of times but RIT will respond. I think when it gets to the five-minute mark, Fisher will be up about four points. The difference between this and their last meeting is Fisher will tighten the clamps on defense. Fisher wins another close one against the Tigers.

Ithaca  66
Utica    72

I almost wish this game was at Utica because Varsity Gym has just been a house of horrors for the Bombers. I think the last time the Ithaca men won in that building was 2001 or 2002. I think Utica will get off to a hot start an take a 7-10 point lead into the locker room. The Bombers will come out firing in the 2nd half and even take a small lead at some point. However, Ithaca's youth will show down the stretch and Utica will continue to get to the line with Bryant.

I could have had pretty good tickets to the Hornets/Sonics game tonight but I passed just to watch these games. I hope it's worth it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 23, 2007, 05:36:38 PM
as I sit in varsity gym waiting for this thing to get going, I realize a couple of things:

both teams have players who went to highschool in tuscon (zeinfeld and rosenthal - sounds like a law firm).

all you need to know about the unpredictability of this thing - rit beat the top three teams on the road but lost to them all at home
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 23, 2007, 05:39:22 PM
Let's hope our Arizonia partner beats their Arizona partner and we bring it home!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 23, 2007, 05:52:05 PM
Can't wait for the games today...should be some real good basketball..I hooked up the computer to the big screen for this so Fisher better not disapoint.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 23, 2007, 08:05:32 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 23, 2007, 02:51:20 PM
Predictions for tonight's games:

RIT      63
Fisher  69

I think this one will be fairly tight throughout. Fisher will open up the lead to 8 or 9 a couple of times but RIT will respond. I think when it gets to the five-minute mark, Fisher will be up about four points. The difference between this and their last meeting is Fisher will tighten the clamps on defense. Fisher wins another close one against the Tigers.


Almost dead on...as far as the game prediction...Fiser opened up a lead early, let it slip away, and turned the defense up down the stretch and hit some big shots to win.

Adrian Fenyn hit a big shot..and grabbed some huge rebounds down the stretch. Mueller hit a huge three...Playing RIT is never fun for Fisher because the two teams know each other so well...

Should be a good second game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2007, 08:42:05 PM
IC opens on a 14-2 run. Success is short-lived as Utica is currently on a 32-5 run. Pioneers up 34-19. Mullins FINALLY calls his first timeout.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2007, 08:46:07 PM
Utica is actually hitting its 3's tonight. I think they've hit about five in a row at this point. 38-22, Pioneers lead at the half.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 23, 2007, 08:49:29 PM
That really was a fun game.  Very intense second half.

Fisher was really hitting shots early, running their sets.  RIT was depending on offensive boards and "garbage" points in the paint from Gethers, Bacon, others, as Fisher was sticking on Zeinfeld and giving space to Colin Roy, who didn't start taking jumpers until the second half. 

RIT struggled with their offensive sets.  Bacon barely saw the ball in the first half.

Fisher, likewise, saw little production from the inside.  RIT was collapsing on McSweeney and Beigel in a hurry when they caught the ball.  They were forced to rely on Mueller and Baltz taking jumpers, and they delivered for a while.

At about the fifteen minute mark of the second half RIT really ratched up the defensive pressure.  Colin Roy forced consecutive turnovers by freshman Matt Newman.  The Tigers switched it up between man and a zone trap several times and really rattled Fisher's young guards -- so much so that Kornaker was forced to pull Newman for the remainder of the game. 

This was when the Tigers transition offense took off and they took the lead.  I think the Tigers held the lead for a good seven or eight minutes in the second half.   Zeinfeld was lucky to avoid a technical after hitting a big three and talking some trash to Baltz (I think).

But when Fisher figured out how to handle the pressure, the Tigers had to go back to their half court sets.  They were a little better in the second half than the first, but not good enough.

Big shots by Mueller and Baltz down the stretch for the Cards.  And McVean got caught making offense/defense substitions in the last few minutes -- Mark Carson, unbelievably, was taking important free throws in the final minutes, and they ran one offensive possession without Bacon or Zeinfeld in the game -- and they had two timeouts left.  This baffled me. 
 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 23, 2007, 10:16:59 PM
Nice win fisher, keep it up!
Let me see, oh Fenyn had 9 points and a solid performance off the bench.  Perhaps it would have been even better if his talent wasn't mismanaged all year by the Fisher Coaching staff. 
What did you say superman? <<<<there is always more to a story....obviously Adrian did something to not get playing time...if he was good enough to play consistently then he would have>>>>> 
He should have been playing consistently all year, nice to know the fisher staff has the smarts to pull him out now at least.  He certainly ought to have fresh legs as some games he did not even get in and others he got the token 2 minutes.   I still contend it's not a fair way to treat an athlete with such talent.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 23, 2007, 10:47:50 PM
ok first off take your lips of adrian's D***... Secondly...there was, is and always will be two sides to a storie...well work kept me from watching either game on the puter...so hopefully I will be able to get home in time tommorow to see fisher win the championship if not oh well
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 23, 2007, 11:20:10 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 23, 2007, 10:47:50 PM
ok first off take your lips of adrian's D***... Secondly...there was, is and always will be two sides to a storie...well work kept me from watching either game on the puter...so hopefully I will be able to get home in time tommorow to see fisher win the championship if not oh well

Nice mouth superboy, does your mother know you speak that way to people that disagree with you?  Dont forget to polish your rose colored glasses on the way to your work at McDonalds tomorrow.

BTW, McAdam is in a class above Neuman/Baltz (for now)

Adrian Fenyn's sister is a potential D-1 recruit from Newark HS as a Sophmore.  If by chance she ended up D-3 I am sure that there is no way that her parents would  allow her on the Fisher Campus after watching there son's treatment this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DirkDiggler on February 24, 2007, 02:47:17 AM
SuperMan stop living as a SuperHomo, and realize that Fisher is not as good this year.   Please go on to tell me how I have never played sports before and how I am a fool.  I think GoBombers is really the only sensible person here.

Go Fisher.  Go A-Streeet!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2007, 09:19:27 AM
I'm not disagreeing with you...I'm just saying that you guys are acting like adrian is g-d's gift to mankind and I'm saying there is obviously a reason that he did not get playing time...  I think I've been pretty sensible about the fact that Fisher is having a rebuilding year....

is adrian good ya he has played very well in the last two games


and notjoshreed, the last time I checked Kornaker does not coach the girls teams...and if I had a daughter I would be honored to let her play DIII for Kahler...Kahler and Emri and class acts and I personally feel that when Kahler feels like retiring he deserves to have something in that gym named after him.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 11:53:44 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 24, 2007, 09:19:27 AM
I personally feel that when Kahler feels like retiring he deserves to have something in that gym named after him.

Like, say, the entire building.  That'd be a good start.  Kahler Court has a nice ring to it at least.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 24, 2007, 12:00:59 PM
Well they have already named the court after Bobby Wanzer...but when Kahler goes, I think the Phil Kahler student life center sounds about right...If they don't name the building after him it would be a crime...

The man is the best story Fisher has had for a long time.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2007, 12:25:05 PM
Good win for Utica last night. Pretty easy summary of the game. Ithaca opens the game on a 14-2 run, hitting from the outside and attacking the basket. Then, as they're prone to do, the Bombers stop moving on offense and settle for 15-18 foot jumpers. Utica controlled the glass so it was one-and-done for the Bombers most of the night. Utica goes on a big run, fueled by a bunch of 3's from Brian Collier and Utica takes a 38-22 lead into intermission. The Bombers start hot in the second half, eventually cutting Utica's lead to 46-38, but could get no closer. Utica hit a ton of big 3's in that game. It was obvious that Ithaca was going to give them that outside shot as the Pioneers came in shooting under 30% as a team from distance during conference play. It was a decent strategy that just didn't work out for them; sometimes that happens.

I will say this, though. Utica MUST start their halves far better against Fisher than they did against Ithaca. They let IC go on 14-2 and a 16-8 run to start the two halves. If they do that against Fisher, the game will be a rout, end of story. Fisher's D is too good and it would be an uphill battle the entire way if Utica doesn't play better early in each half.

My prediction:

Utica   65
Fisher  75

Watching that game last night, I found myself thinking that Utica looks out of control a lot of the time. Behind-the-back dribbles in traffic, no-look passes that don't always hit their mark, etc. I could go on for awhile. They must be in control to have a shot against Fisher today. I think Fisher opens up a ten point lead in the first ten minutes and leads by about seven going into break. Fisher will come out and push the lead to 12 or 13 when Utica will go on its run and get the lead down to about 2-4 points. But I think Fisher will be too much and hit a couple big 3's down the stretch, while taking care of business at the line. Cards go to the dance and Utica takes the #1 seed in the ECAC Tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 04:49:54 PM
Fisher 24, Utica 21 at halftime.  Neither team shooting well.  Beigel and Mueller with 7 each for Fisher; Lighthall has 6 for Utica.

EDIT: SJF comes out blazing and it's 38-27 Cards with 16:23 to go.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2007, 05:00:16 PM
Wow, these guys calling the game for Fisher (not JC DeLass) sound a lot like some of the posters. So far they have:

1) Compared Dan Mueller to Larry Bird (i'm not even kidding)

2) Talked for three minutes about how bad Dan Mueller got jobbed for not making first team all-conference.

I've only listened for the first five minutes of the half. There's more to come. One of these guys has to be FisherDynasty.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2007, 05:05:49 PM
it would not suprise me if one of them is...and no muellar does not deserve first team...but when he's on he is very dangerous as we have seen in the second half...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:14:46 PM
Utica back within 1 before McSweeney makes it a 50-47 SJF lead, 10:28 left.

EDIT: Tied at 58 with 6:10 to go.  Fasten your seat belts...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2007, 05:25:40 PM
No esta mi casa...wow that is original
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 24, 2007, 05:27:21 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:14:46 PM
Utica back within 1 before McSweeney makes it a 50-47 SJF lead, 10:28 left.

EDIT: Tied at 58 with 6:10 to go.  Fasten your seat belts...

Can anyone give me anymore updates through the end of the UC-Fisher game? I am working and can't listen.... Thanks to anyone who can help out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:29:05 PM
3:25 left, tie game 61 all....2 shots upcoming for Utica.

EDIT: Bryant makes 1 of 2, 62-61 Pios inside 3 minutes left.  BTW, Brockport was losing at halftime and St. Lawrence beat Hamilton for the LL title (I sure whiffed on that prediction).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2007, 05:32:40 PM
Good thing these games (men and women) have been pretty close this weekend. Not only did I pass on tickets for an amazing Hornets/Sonics game last night but I also passed on tickets to UF/LSU men up in Baton Rouge. Bayou Bengals by 12 pts with 9 mins left.

Actual quote: "A trial by baptism in fire." What?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:34:31 PM
Newman for 3, good!! Answered by Lighthall, 64-64 1:18 to go.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 24, 2007, 05:37:55 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 24, 2007, 05:32:40 PM
Actual quote: "A trial by baptism in fire." What?

Close enough.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:40:20 PM
66-64 Fisher with 45 seconds left, looks like Bryant to the line for 2 shots.

EDIT: Good and good.  66-66 35 seconds left.  Timeout Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:43:32 PM
Fisher misses a layup, Utica rebounds with 22 seconds left but doesn't get a shot off....overtime!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2007, 05:44:43 PM
Camera guy fell asleep on that last possession. Couldn't even see what transpired in the corner. Unreal.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2007, 05:45:01 PM
bud your in saratoga right...if so are you intrested in two tickets to the symphony monday at Proctors...pm if so
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:47:22 PM
71-67 Fisher, 3:56 left.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 24, 2007, 05:47:35 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:43:32 PM
Fisher misses a layup, Utica rebounds with 22 seconds left but doesn't get a shot off....overtime!!


Sh!t.... now I have to sweat out another 15 minutes lol
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 24, 2007, 05:47:49 PM
Brockport loses in SUNYAC Finals, bursts a Pool c bubble somewhere most likely....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:52:25 PM
Quote from: pg04 on February 24, 2007, 05:47:49 PM
Brockport loses in SUNYAC Finals, bursts a Pool c bubble somewhere most likely....

Will it be Fisher's?  The Cards are up by 4 with 2:18 to go in the OT.  Ray Bryant killing his team at the line except for the two big ones to tie late in regulation.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:56:16 PM
76-73 Fisher, Utica ball, 52 ticks left.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 24, 2007, 05:57:16 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:56:16 PM
76-73 Fisher, Utica ball, 52 ticks left.

Come on... UC needs to get their sh!t together
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:58:56 PM
Quote from: budcrew08 on February 24, 2007, 05:57:16 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 05:56:16 PM
76-73 Fisher, Utica ball, 52 ticks left.

Come on... UC needs to get their sh!t together

Not gonna happen today I don't think, shots not falling for UC, Fisher up 5 in the final seconds.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2007, 05:59:56 PM
way to go fisher punch that ticket
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 06:00:29 PM
Your 2007 Empire 8 Champions the St. John Fisher Cardinals.  78-73 the final behind 26 Dan Mueller points.  21 for Jack Lighthall to lead Utica.  Valiant effort Pioneers, but the Crazies win again.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2007, 06:01:28 PM
I think with B'port going down, the very slim chance that Utica had is now gone.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 24, 2007, 06:02:27 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 06:00:29 PM
Your 2007 Empire 8 Champions the St. John Fisher Cardinals.  78-73 the final behind 26 Dan Mueller points.  21 for Jack Lighthall to lead Utica.  Valiant effort Pioneers, but the Crazies win again.


So, despite the loss, do the Pioneers advance to the tournament? Or not this year because of Brockport's loss in the SUNYACs? 19-7 is a pretty good year to get left out of the tourney, but I think they will.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 06:03:18 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 24, 2007, 06:01:28 PM
I think with B'port going down, the very slim chance that Utica had is now gone.

Utica has gotta be D.O.A.  They didn't have much of a chance even if Brockport had won it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 24, 2007, 06:03:40 PM
Yeah, Utica and Hamilton will now probably be out of the running now, unless the No Competency Athletic Association committee sees things differently.   
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2007, 06:04:30 PM
If you guys want to see a great game, flip it on over to the women's final. Unbelievable game with HUGE momentum swings. I don't say this often, but that game is 10x better than the men's final.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 24, 2007, 06:06:22 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 24, 2007, 06:04:30 PM
If you guys want to see a great game, flip it on over to the women's final. Unbelievable game with HUGE momentum swings. I don't say this often, but that game is 10x better than the men's final.

STUPID QUESTION ALERT:

Who is in the woman's final?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 24, 2007, 06:08:16 PM
I wouldn't be upset right now if it was the players that decided this game. Call after call after call after call, its the same old story when Fisher plays at home.

Congratulations regardless, but that was asinine. 8 on 5 is not the way a championship game should be played.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2007, 06:10:27 PM
Ithaca and Elmira. Bombers up 93-87 with :30 seconds left. Elmira never led but kept making huge comebacks the entire game. Ithaca must have pushed the lead to 8-12 about 5 times and Elmira came back each time. Elmira didn't lead once in regulation but got it to OT.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 24, 2007, 06:10:50 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 24, 2007, 06:08:16 PM
I wouldn't be upset right now if it was the players that decided this game. Call after call after call after call, its the same old story when Fisher plays at home.

Congratulations regardless, but that was asinine. 8 on 5 is not the way a championship game should be played.


What was so bad with the refs this time, grad?

"Hey ref, get off your knees! You're blowing the game!"
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2007, 06:16:56 PM
UC...the calls went both ways and from what I heard there were several technicals that did not get called on utica...so don't go with the refs
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 24, 2007, 06:18:06 PM
Quote from: budcrew08 on February 24, 2007, 06:10:50 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 24, 2007, 06:08:16 PM
I wouldn't be upset right now if it was the players that decided this game. Call after call after call after call, its the same old story when Fisher plays at home.

Congratulations regardless, but that was asinine. 8 on 5 is not the way a championship game should be played.


What was so bad with the refs this time, grad?

"Hey ref, get off your knees! You're blowing the game!"


Well, to name a few, the intentional foul that wasnt called, the technical that wasn't called, the 4 fouls in 30 seconds after that call on Utica to appease kornaker when he should have been t'd, the 15-20 rapings that weren't called, the foul with 1 second left in regulation that wasn't called, not giving Utica the timeout when they called it, the travel that wasn't that was a 5 point turnaround..... I could go on.


I have been told in conversations after games many times by the radio guys for Utica that the officials do not decide games. For them to come out and say that the refs are doing their best to make sure UC can't win and for them to say that the game was not decided by the players means, literally, that they would have to be the most blatanly obvious terrible calls that you could possibly imagine.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2007, 06:23:16 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 24, 2007, 06:18:06 PM
Quote from: budcrew08 on February 24, 2007, 06:10:50 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 24, 2007, 06:08:16 PM
I wouldn't be upset right now if it was the players that decided this game. Call after call after call after call, its the same old story when Fisher plays at home.

Congratulations regardless, but that was asinine. 8 on 5 is not the way a championship game should be played.


What was so bad with the refs this time, grad?

"Hey ref, get off your knees! You're blowing the game!"


Well, to name a few, the intentional foul that wasnt called, the technical that wasn't called, the 4 fouls in 30 seconds after that call on Utica to appease kornaker when he should have been t'd, the 15-20 rapings that weren't called, the foul with 1 second left in regulation that wasn't called, not giving Utica the timeout when they called it, the travel that wasn't that was a 5 point turnaround..... I could go on.


I have been told in conversations after games many times by the radio guys for Utica that the officials do not decide games. For them to come out and say that the refs are doing their best to make sure UC can't win and for them to say that the game was not decided by the players means, literally, that they would have to be the most blatanly obvious terrible calls that you could possibly imagine.



C'mon, guys. The refs? Again? You can't say the refs favored Fisher when one of them looked like he was about two seconds from punching Kornaker in the second half. Utica was in the DOUBLE-BONUS with 9 minutes left in the second half!! Think about that. Double-bonus. Nine minutes left. And you're blaming the refs? I really wanted to root for Utica today but you guys give us too many reasons not to.

Look, it was an immensely physical game. The referees were inconsistent but they were INCONSISTENT BOTH WAYS. I'm an unbiased observer here and I don't think the refs decided that game. And UCgrad, I didn't come on here last night complaining about the refs when Utica could have easily been called for about 8-10 handchecks on Burton and probably called for reach-in's on about 80% of their defensive possessions. Please stop blaming the refs. For your sake, you lose credibility when you do.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on February 24, 2007, 06:27:23 PM
Hey Fisher fans, congrats on another E8 Title! Couldn't go to the game today, was their a lot of fans at the game? Was it loud? I went last weekend when Fisher beat Utica and there was basically nobody there. Who gets in the NCAA Tourny now that Brockport lost? Thanks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on February 24, 2007, 06:27:55 PM
Wow, bombers thinks the refs couldnt have possibly helped when it comes to Utica... I'm shocked.  ::) (By the way, read more, post less, havnt said a word about the refs in any game all year)



Its one thing when there are a few calls here and there, but when you can point to at least 10 calls that were 3-7 point turnarounds, all in favor of one team....


This is the same court I witnessed the refs twice giving fisher the ball back in 1 minute when they fell or stepped over the line while inbounding and claimed the floor was wet. That kind of thing happens to every team that plays there. It's nothing new.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2007, 07:12:10 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 24, 2007, 06:27:55 PM
Wow, bombers thinks the refs couldnt have possibly helped when it comes to Utica... I'm shocked.  ::) (By the way, read more, post less, havnt said a word about the refs in any game all year)



Its one thing when there are a few calls here and there, but when you can point to at least 10 calls that were 3-7 point turnarounds, all in favor of one team....


This is the same court I witnessed the refs twice giving fisher the ball back in 1 minute when they fell or stepped over the line while inbounding and claimed the floor was wet. That kind of thing happens to every team that plays there. It's nothing new.

I saw calls that were not in Fisher's favor that I think they'd normally get. For example, when McSweeney had been stationary for a good second before Herring plowed into him. The refs called an "and one" and a blocking foul on McSweeney. It was a poor call. I guarantee you that if you ask Goodemote or Ray Bryant why Utica lost today, "refereeing" would not be in either of their top five reasons. Every 50/50 call in the women's game today went in Elmira's favor, as well. Ithaca players knew it came with the territory of playing the game in Elmira's gym. You gotta battle through it. It's part of the homecourt advantage. Not condoning it, but it happens and there's nothing you can do. Not once while I was watching this game did I think "wow, these refs are terrible, what's going on here?" And I really could have cared less who won that game. Fisher looked visibly frustrated with many calls today. I think the officiating was inconsistent, but it was consistently inconsistent both ways and that's all you can ask for.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2007, 07:46:59 PM
agreed bad calls went both ways...and utica had their chances and did not capitalize
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 24, 2007, 07:52:12 PM
I agree that the officiating was poor, BUT IT WAS POOR BOTH WAYS!!!. I was there and saw first hand how both teams were going at each other. The one play that should have been called harder was the play where Smalt basically hip checked Ray Bryant on a fast break. That should have been a Flagrant foul. The Utica bench should have been T'd up for coming on the floor. I think the refs did do a good job and keeping the game under control to a certain extent. I was stunned that coach Kornaker didn't get T'd up for basically going nose to nose with the ref after the Utica team left the bench. All in All it was a great game. I have more respect now for Utica than before. Especially after the game, where Ray Bryant congratulated and hugged Mueller, Beigel and McSweeney in a sign of respect. That was classy all the way. Good luck to Fisher in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on February 24, 2007, 08:11:06 PM
i think everyone who was at the game can OBVIOUSLY see that the game was 8v5. Fisher was handed that trophy before regulation even ended.

everyone posting with any resemblane of 'fisher' in their name is wrong. the reffing was HORRIBLE.

it was just honestly horrendous. i mean lightall got called for a travel when he did a touch-pass? that one ref looked like he'd never watched basketball before. then the other one had ZERO balls, kornaker embarassed the HELL out of him, and he just took it and didnt dish out a T to korny.

as soon as UC got in the bonus the refs did EVERYTHING in their power to even the game up for fisher, it was pretty pathetic.

...but anyways congrats to fisher, sorry that bull **** had to happen to UC..

Also, i recall something similar happening last year in the E-8 conference finals. Fisher-RIT, goes to OT, refs hannnd the game over, coincidence that fishers biggest wins at home (UR, Geneseo, now this) were all decided by the officials. funny..
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2007, 08:20:32 PM
ok UC fans chew it...I can understand if you don't take Fisher fans point of view...but when Ithaca fans say that they thought it was even you should listen...take your loss and be good with the fact that you made it as far as you did...and that you still have a very very outside shot at  making the NCAA's and if not you'll be the #1 seed for the ECAC
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 24, 2007, 08:56:27 PM
Just got back home in Utica from the great game this afternoon. I did say on the air one time that the officials are doing their best to give Fisher the game...but if I had the chance I would take that statement back.

While I do think the officiating was poor and I do think there were a few more bad calls that went in Fishers favor I still think the Pioneers had a chance to win the game...especially in the closing seconds of regulation when they could not get a shot off.

In the end it was a fantastic game...I am disappointed but congrats to Fisher....maybe one day we can beat those bastards on their home floor.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2007, 09:05:16 PM
Adam, your a good man...it is hard to stay unbiased and I think you do an overall goodjob...definatly better than the fisher announcers...I almost choked when they compared Mueller to Larry Bird....

thoughts on how Fisher will fare in the NCAA's... I do think Fisher might get a home game...but I think it could be a very long shot...would be nice to stay close to home...but you never know...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 24, 2007, 09:07:17 PM
I suggest that Fisher does get the first round at home probably....

Boy I wish I would have watched the game now so I could give an opinion ! 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Adam the Bull on February 24, 2007, 09:10:24 PM
I think it all depends on the match up...but I have not seen a team this year that Fisher could not beat.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2007, 09:14:25 PM
Adam you give the fisher team more credit than I do...I liken this team back to the 2004 squad...they might be able to pull off a first round win, but after that it should be gravy...they could be dangerous next year... Smalt should get signifcant playing time and I am curious to see what some of the younger plays can do with Mueller and McSweeny gone...

and I believe that the announcers were drinking the same kool-aid on Fenyn that Dirk and NotJosh have drank...now on that note...where has this Fenyn been compared to what I have seen
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 24, 2007, 09:15:35 PM
Just back home and I caught the score on the internet. I was not at the game so I have no opinion on the officiating.

I am real happy that Fisher took all of the guess work out of the equation. they secured the spot in the NCAA's the right way, beating UC with Ray Bryant, and all that.

I think Fisher proved that they are a better team than Utica...UC really struggled late in the year. Good win for Fisher. Good luck in the NCAA's
I think they can get a first round home game. Probably not a high enough seed to get a bye. But they should play one game at home. Any thoughts on who the opposition might be come tourny time...?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 24, 2007, 09:16:19 PM
At 22-5, I would be SHOCKED if Fisher did not get atleast 1 home game. Will they get a bye, like last year? probably not, but should host the 1st and 2nd round games at Fisher. With Brockport losing, who knows who will make it out of the East, Rochester? maybe, but they are only 19-7, Hamilton, don't know, especially losing at home. I guess we will all find out tomorrow night. The time game begins. TICK TOCK.... TICK TOCK.... TICK TOCK....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 25, 2007, 11:03:22 AM
Another title for Fisher.  Fisher controlled the game from the get go.  If you watched the game without a scoreboard you would have though fisher won by about 12 pts, but Utica kept it close with their free throws and little runs.  Utica desperatly misses cichon and willie lucas, they just dont have enough scoring options.  Ray Bryant once again not impressive at all, i think he only had one field goal, but did what he always does boards it hard and draws fouls.  Fisher should def host through the 2nd round once again as they will be the #1 seed in the East (again).  If they get to the sweet 16, they'll be traveling to amherst unless amherst gets upset which would be a nice change.  If dan mueller and chris baltz are shooting like they are, Fisher will have a good showing in the tourny.  Mueller played out of his mind, and i believe he definatly deserved first team, the kid has put the best team in the league on his shoulders time and time again.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 25, 2007, 11:20:31 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 25, 2007, 11:03:22 AM
Ray Bryant once again not impressive at all,

Just for the record, the conference POY had 17 points and 14 rebounds.  Very unimpressive, huh.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 25, 2007, 11:21:04 AM
I just got done checking out the projections for the tourny...here it is:

1) St. John Fisher
2)Trinity (Conn)
3)Brockport State
4)St Lawerence
5)Rochester
6)Plattsburgh state
7)Elms
8)Wentworth Tech

Fisher looks to be a serious contender in the region. Trinity is a very good team, and Brockport is obviously a good team. The thing I notice is that teams 1-5 look like they could win it. If Fisher can get a bye and a home game I think it will really help them make another trip to Amherst.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 25, 2007, 11:27:54 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 24, 2007, 09:14:25 PM
and I believe that the announcers were drinking the same kool-aid on Fenyn that Dirk and NotJosh have drank...now on that note...where has this Fenyn been compared to what I have seen
Superboy you continue to have your rose colored glasses on,  Not sure what the later part of this statement means, but you are an ass
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 25, 2007, 11:03:22 AM
.  Mueller played out of his mind, and i believe he definatly deserved first team, the kid has put the best team in the league on his shoulders time and time again.

Agree wholeheartedly with this statement Congratulations to Dan Mueller for a great season. Fishers's system probably had even you questioning your own ability after three years of limited playing.  Goes to show how a talented player can showcase his talent and elevate his game if given the opportunity.  Way to go skip!  Too bad Fenyn and others didnt have an opportunity to do the same.  Hope that Smalts, Beardon and McKiever get that chance next year

Congrats to the entire Fisher team and Coaches for winning the E8.  It was impressive.  Good luck as your season continues
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 25, 2007, 11:39:38 AM
I understand the argument for Mueller being on first team, but over who? Burton had better numbers in most statistical categories and is just as important to Ithaca as Mueller is to Fisher, if not moreso. You saw this year how much more dangerous of a team IC was with a guy like Burton at the helm than they were when Whetstone was running the show. I can see him making it over Herring, but Herring was a guy that a lot of people were considering for E8 POY until about the last two or three weeks of the season when the wheels came off for Utica. I have no problem with how it came out, each of the three had a valid claim to be a first team player.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on February 25, 2007, 11:41:55 AM
With 8 teams in a region i dont think anyone gets a bye do they?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 25, 2007, 11:48:22 AM
the end of the comment is Fenyn has been playing really well the past couple games...but I followed the team very closely while I was at fisher and he always seemed uncomfortable playing... and the koolaid was not meant as a mean comment I was just saying that the announcers were praising fenyn a lot...and he deserves the praise for what he has done lately
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 25, 2007, 12:18:39 PM
The field looks pretty competitive, anyone could probably come out of it. 

NotJoshReed, whats so bad about Fisher's system? dan mueller, yes I believe could have gotten a little bit more playing time but the last few years the team has been extremely talented and there just wasnt enough minutes for him.  You can only play 5 guys. Also, to the point the mckeavers, beardens, smalts, if those guys were good enough they'd be starting, but there not, so they dont start and play limited time.  They've had their chances.  Good programs have good players on the bench, when good players leave, good players replace them and have good years.  In a perfect program, you would have very good freshmen and sophmores on the bench and finally getting on the court their jr and sr years when they are fully ready.  If you think fisher is bad, think about all the best programs in the country, the players sitting on the end of their benches are better then anyone in our league.  Amherst has D1 transfers at the end of their bench getting garbage time that would dunk on the players that your talking about.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 25, 2007, 12:32:10 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 25, 2007, 11:48:22 AM
the end of the comment is Fenyn has been playing really well the past couple games...but I followed the team very closely while I was at fisher and he always seemed uncomfortable playing... and the koolaid was not meant as a mean comment I was just saying that the announcers were praising fenyn a lot...and he deserves the praise for what he has done lately
Thanks for the explanation.   Often the difference between athletes competeing is the level of confidence the players have.  I to have seen Fenyn play tentative but that does not surpise me with the b.s. that was going on with him and Kornacker up to the latter part of the season.  Glad to see it on the healthy side now, but feel bad that it was an opportunity lost to a gifted ball player.
Also surprised that Smalts didnt get more minutes this year.  Hope he turns it on next year to have a "dan Mueller" type senior year
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 25, 2007, 12:18:39 PM
The field looks pretty competitive, anyone could probably come out of it. 

NotJoshReed, whats so bad about Fisher's system? dan mueller, yes I believe could have gotten a little bit more playing time but the last few years the team has been extremely talented and there just wasnt enough minutes for him.  You can only play 5 guys. Also, to the point the mckeavers, beardens, smalts, if those guys were good enough they'd be starting, but there not, so they dont start and play limited time.  They've had their chances.  Good programs have good players on the bench, when good players leave, good players replace them and have good years.  In a perfect program, you would have very good freshmen and sophmores on the bench and finally getting on the court their jr and sr years when they are fully ready.  If you think fisher is bad, think about all the best programs in the country, the players sitting on the end of their benches are better then anyone in our league.  Amherst has D1 transfers at the end of their bench getting garbage time that would dunk on the players that your talking about.

You are probaly right, just allow me 2 points then I will drop the subject,  Point one that i have hounded about of late is that their was a similarilty between Smalts and Fenyn, two talented players with two differences, Fenyn is a senior and Smalts a junior.  Smalts with the minutes and the time he got was still treated with respect as an intergal part of the team, Fenyn was not for most of the year.

Point two is Fisher, maintains too big of a squad and it is impossible to do justice to all those players.  They should really carry only 16 at max. 

Fisher is not bad, certainly one of the best D3 programs in the Area and pbly the nation. both mens and womens program.
Could be worse, I could be rooting for Naz and frustrated with so much talent and so little success

Go Fisher!


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 25, 2007, 12:49:51 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 25, 2007, 12:18:39 PM
The field looks pretty competitive, anyone could probably come out of it. 

NotJoshReed, whats so bad about Fisher's system? dan mueller, yes I believe could have gotten a little bit more playing time but the last few years the team has been extremely talented and there just wasnt enough minutes for him.  You can only play 5 guys. Also, to the point the mckeavers, beardens, smalts, if those guys were good enough they'd be starting, but there not, so they dont start and play limited time.  They've had their chances.  Good programs have good players on the bench, when good players leave, good players replace them and have good years.  In a perfect program, you would have very good freshmen and sophmores on the bench and finally getting on the court their jr and sr years when they are fully ready.  If you think fisher is bad, think about all the best programs in the country, the players sitting on the end of their benches are better then anyone in our league.  Amherst has D1 transfers at the end of their bench getting garbage time that would dunk on the players that your talking about.

Also, I think it is tough to blame a program when Mueller was playing behind Sean Obrien. I love Mueller as a player, but he is limited compared to SOB.

I heard something about not doing justice to the players on the team by having so many. Well I think the best way to do them justice is to win games, league titles, and NCAA tournament games. Kornaker has found a way to do all of those so far in his career. Yeah it sucks that good players have a hard time getting off the bench. Yeah it is no fun to not play which can lead to tension between a player and a coach. Coaches don't like players that sit on the bench and complain about it. All coaches do not like their decisions underminded by players on the team. Now, I am not saying this is what Fenyn has done. By all accounts I hear he is a real good kid, who is a good team guy.

The bottom line is that Kornaker wins games. He wins league titles. If some players get upset along the way well that is a problem that all programs deal with. Kornaker does justice to the players in the program, the school, and all the fans by winning games and not getting in any trouble for recruiting violations and the like.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: notjoshreed on February 25, 2007, 12:53:43 PM
sjfcards, you are right, kudos for this years chsmpionship
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 25, 2007, 02:04:27 PM
I agree... SJFC Cards as long as they win championships thats all that matters...players like Smalt and Mueller I feel were key to last years run as Smalt and Mueller mixed in as 6th men with Raymie and Pete
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 25, 2007, 02:17:38 PM
ok so Amherst loses in NESAC Championship game...now does this do anything to amherst or is it like Florida losing in the SEC Championship game will they still be a high number 1 seed
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reelentless on February 25, 2007, 03:45:36 PM
QuoteFD - Another title for Fisher.  Fisher controlled the game from the get go.  If you watched the game without a scoreboard you would have though fisher won by about 12 pts, but Utica kept it close with their free throws and little runs.

Just getting around to responding - and just to keep it real . . .  with 20 seconds left on the clock, the game was tied and Utica had the ball.  Fisher had played hard and well, but at that point they weren't controlling, they were praying - one shot away from the end of their season.   So Fisher fans, and FD in particular, let's not be too almighty proud of ourselves, the game could have gone either way. 

And as a Utica fan, I'm proud of the way our team played.  The game was even at the end more because of great determination on our part than because of great basketball.  The seniors never stopped grinding.   I'm disappointed for the team that there's any discussion of refereeing.  There shouldn't be.  Unfortunately in a tight game, and near the end of the game, we're going to notice the refs taking 4 (probably 6) points off the board against Utica and "no calling" two - two shot fouls.   Forgive us.    That said, if we want some "home cooking" we're going to have to host the tournament.

Since it doesn't appear we'll be dancing, good luck to Fisher and the rest of the East Region representatives.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 25, 2007, 03:56:49 PM
ok yes fisher gets calls at home but all teams get a little home court advantage....but they also don't get calls too...exactly Utica had their oppurtunity and choked not even getting a shot off...so stop talking about the refs Utica had every oppurtunity to win and they didn't Fisher did what they had to do and won end of story
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on February 25, 2007, 04:17:06 PM
Superman, here's your answer from Pat Coleman in regaurds about Amherst losing today.

"Other than shake their confidence I don't think it will change much. Still
only their second regional loss."

I figure that Amherst will still be number 1 and still host the "sweet 16" if they advance. Now if they lose in the 2nd round...could get interesting. Let's see how they respond after a tough loss at home by 1 point.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 26, 2007, 09:24:23 AM
Fisher Fans,

Congratulations, you're in a bracket without Amherst.  Too bad about having to see UR in the second round, though.  At Varsity Gym, I will be looking forward to that one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2007, 09:26:37 AM
A home game(s) for the alma mater!
That is great!
Roch- not so much...
Ok someone give me the scoop on the frist round matchup.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2007, 09:44:07 AM
that second round game could be very intense...now a question...Lake Eries gym only holds 750 so if somehow fisher advances to the sweet 16 would fisher be the faviorite to host now
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2007, 09:45:16 AM
Super- what about the first round game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2007, 09:51:11 AM
they are 17-11 and lost by 22 to RPI
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2007, 09:56:48 AM
Ah.
Rochester game should be crazy then!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 26, 2007, 10:02:45 AM
Have to love the bracket fisher is in this year.  the UofR game (if the two win) will be very tough, however, can't complain since both teams have beat each other once, its not a bad spot to be in, knowing that you can beat a team.  If Fisher can get past that, they will most likely meet bport/williams. bport they already beat as well, so again cant complain.  then most likely will meet a very good Wooster team, hopefully they will get upset.  Wooster will make it out of the bottom half over lake Erie without question.  I'm just happy to see Amherst on the other side of the bracket.  Oh well, one game at a time.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2007, 10:10:19 AM
well said.
Lets get friday in the books first!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on February 26, 2007, 11:58:36 AM
Will the games at Fisher, Friday and Saturday night be sellouts or a lot of people attending? I just checked, Fishers students spring break starts Friday night. Will it still be a home-court advantage for Fisher? Seeing Amherst in another bracket was a nice change of pace.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2007, 12:02:23 PM
great question!
anybody know?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 26, 2007, 12:41:18 PM
Quote from: bjgiants6 on February 26, 2007, 11:58:36 AM
Will the games at Fisher, Friday and Saturday night be sellouts or a lot of people attending? I just checked, Fishers students spring break starts Friday night. Will it still be a home-court advantage for Fisher? Seeing Amherst in another bracket was a nice change of pace.

With the students on break the homecourt advantage will be diminished significantly.  The games last Friday for the E8 tournament were not sellouts (I can't speak for Saturday) -- but the gym still looked full.  Fisher will probably do a pre-sale for the tickets this weekend, so check their Athletics website.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on February 26, 2007, 01:01:23 PM
Bamm, thanks. Its too bad, cause that is what having home court was all about, like the Naz game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 26, 2007, 01:03:27 PM
Quote from: bamm on February 26, 2007, 12:41:18 PM
Quote from: bjgiants6 on February 26, 2007, 11:58:36 AM
Will the games at Fisher, Friday and Saturday night be sellouts or a lot of people attending? I just checked, Fishers students spring break starts Friday night. Will it still be a home-court advantage for Fisher? Seeing Amherst in another bracket was a nice change of pace.

With the students on break the homecourt advantage will be diminished significantly.  The games last Friday for the E8 tournament were not sellouts (I can't speak for Saturday) -- but the gym still looked full.  Fisher will probably do a pre-sale for the tickets this weekend, so check their Athletics website.

When the Fisher students are on break, Varsity Gym is 5x easier to play in. I remember that was the case when Ithaca played Fisher in the 2005 E8 Semis. Then again, Fisher did beat RIT the next day by about 100, so who knows. That would be no good for Fisher if UR fans take up half the gym for the second-round game. Still have to win the first one, though. Unlike other years, I don't think Fisher can have a bad game in the tournament and still skate by.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2007, 01:12:53 PM
yes fisher is on spring break, but to that, lets remember 80% of Fisher students live in the Rochester, Buffalo, Syracuse area
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on February 26, 2007, 01:16:01 PM
Superman, that's what I was thinking as well. How was last years game against Norwich? I remember one year they played Hamilton at home while the students were on break and their weren't that many Fisher students at the game at all. Mostly adults.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum03 on February 26, 2007, 01:19:46 PM
I remember that game, there weren't alot of fisher fans at the beginning but a lot showed up in the 2nd half
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2007, 01:55:02 PM
i am going to assume that any crowd at the game will be nothing like the regular season.......
home court adv cut dramatically.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2007, 01:56:39 PM
Varsity gym is still a home court advantage...hopefully res life will smarten up and keep the dorms open till sunday morning or something so anyone who wants to go the games can
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on February 26, 2007, 02:00:38 PM
I'm not trying to make a big deal about this, but here's my take:

Fisher is having a great year, better than people have expected. Its the Fishers students that are accountable. If they want to leave and go home then fine. I'm sure some students are friends with some of the players on the team. I just would think that the students would come out and support a team that is having a fantastic season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2007, 02:21:32 PM
oh- cmon!
That is crazy- if you have made plans to hop on a plane or vacation lined up- it is tough to breeak them because of a game.  Let alone the issue of the dorms being closed. You would have had to get special permission to stay long before now!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2007, 02:27:05 PM
but again 80% of fisher lives in the rochester, buffalo, syracuse area and if you don't live in the area, then you have a friend in the area that would be more than willing to have you at their house...I would say probably 90%+ of the fisher students live within 1:30 of the fisher campus...I did that back and forth to amherst last year...Pony up and get to the games...if I didn't have to work I would be there in a heart beat
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 26, 2007, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: bjgiants6 on February 26, 2007, 02:00:38 PM
I'm not trying to make a big deal about this, but here's my take:

Fisher is having a great year, better than people have expected. Its the Fishers students that are accountable. If they want to leave and go home then fine. I'm sure some students are friends with some of the players on the team. I just would think that the students would come out and support a team that is having a fantastic season.

What is this assumption based on?

People are falling all over themselves to escape central NY this time of year.  I am a D3 fan just like you guys but lets not pretend its D1.  No one was planning their spring break around supporting Fisher at the NCAA tourney...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2007, 02:37:23 PM
i tend to agree with jose- if you have time off and have booked vacation time- i wouldnt lose sleep that i went to florida and missed a game!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 26, 2007, 03:51:59 PM
Upstate ECAC's announced:

1 - Vassar
2 - Oswego
3 - SUNYIT
4 - Ithaca
5 - RPI
6 - Clarkson
7 - RIT
8 - Hilbert

Utica, apparently, turned down an invitation.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2007, 03:53:32 PM
Ouch- turned down an invite....
Not good.
Post season experience-any post season experience is a good thing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2007, 04:03:46 PM
I think it is poor sportsman ship to not accept the bid...the seniors deserve one last hoorah...Utica would have clearly been the #1 seed and would ave had home games...to sit at home and pout because you choked at the end of the season is wrong
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2007, 04:07:12 PM
agreed
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 26, 2007, 04:11:01 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 26, 2007, 01:12:53 PM
yes fisher is on spring break, but to that, lets remember 80% of Fisher students live in the Rochester, Buffalo, Syracuse area

I don't think that'll matter... Your crowd is going to be dramatically reduced because of Planned vacations as described before and even most students won't want to drive that one hour back to Fisher just to see them play a first/second round game... that's just typical apathy of a college student. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 26, 2007, 04:15:55 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2007, 09:56:48 AM
Ah.
Rochester game should be crazy then!

Don't sleep on Plattsburgh.  I think they can beat U of R and Fisher... don't assume you will be playing U of R...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2007, 04:19:45 PM
ok, ok.
I understand.
Heck- im not looking past the 1st round.
Would be a very interesting matchup though.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 26, 2007, 04:29:32 PM
I suppose I should have said you shouldn't look past Wentworth either, but I really really don't think that game will be a problem...but I guess you never know in these tournaments!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 26, 2007, 04:29:41 PM
Predictions for this wkend:
1st Round:

Fisher +11

UofR +7

St. Lawrence +4

Bport +2

Wooster  +7

Centre + 4

John Carrol +6

2nd round:

Fisher vsUofR  - Fisher +1

Bport Vs St. Lawrence - Bport +2

Wooster vs Centre - Wooster+5

lake Erie vs John Carrol - Lake Eirre +4
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 26, 2007, 04:39:24 PM
This bracket certainly is a very good opportunity for a NY team to get to the elite 8.  The committee did a good job of making the bracket incredibly weak....

They even screwed up who really should get the bye.  In my opinion, Wooster really should have been given the bye... They are ranked 3rd while Lake Erie isn't even ranked!!  In the end I see in the Elite 8 matchup Wooster vs. (Insert NY team here) 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2007, 04:53:59 PM
I think they gave Lake Erie the bye because there gym holds about 750 people so trying to fit 4 teams in there would be impossible
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 26, 2007, 04:55:24 PM
I dont know PG04, Although i dont see the bracket as very strong, I think the NE bracket above is weaker if not equal. The only real contender out of the top bracket is Amherst and probably the only real contender out of the bottom bracket is Wooster. The top teams in each bracket are:

Strong teams noted
1. Amherst
6. Salem State
12. Keene State
10. WPI
11. Rhode Island College
5. Trinity

versus (strong teams noted)
2. Wooster
7. Fisher
4. Bport
8. Lake Erie
3. UofR
13. St. Lawrence

I  put numbers in my opinion ranking the best teams noted above.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 26, 2007, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 26, 2007, 04:53:59 PM
I think they gave Lake Erie the bye because there gym holds about 750 people so trying to fit 4 teams in there would be impossible


that's very possible... I guess we'll know when/if Wooster and Lake Erie get to the Sweet 16, Wooster Most definitely should be hosting
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2007, 05:05:31 PM
well I think that no matter what lake erie will not be hosting because there gym can't hold enough...from what I heard it makes my little sisters elementary gym with no seating look large
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 26, 2007, 05:08:21 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 26, 2007, 04:55:24 PM
I dont know PG04, Although i dont see the bracket as very strong, I think the NE bracket above is weaker if not equal. The only real contender out of the top bracket is Amherst and probably the only real contender out of the bottom bracket is Wooster. The top teams in each bracket are:

Strong teams noted
1. Amherst
6. Salem State
12. Keene State
10. WPI
11. Rhode Island College
5. Trinity

versus (strong teams noted)
2. Wooster
7. Fisher
4. Bport
8. Lake Erie
3. UofR
13. St. Lawrence

I  put numbers in my opinion ranking the best teams noted above.

I thank that's skewed a little bit... I think Rampapo is a pretty strong team.  I would also Move Rhode Island College and Trinity higher.  Salem State got a bye so they must be pretty good too I guess what  I would say is that the Amherst Bracket is more top heavy than the Lake Erie one.   I guess it's all irrelevant as this is what we have, and it does give a NY team almost a guarantee into the elite 8! 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on February 26, 2007, 05:10:08 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 26, 2007, 05:05:31 PM
well I think that no matter what lake erie will not be hosting because there gym can't hold enough...from what I heard it makes my little sisters elementary gym with no seating look large

That's sad...Although they only have about 600 undergrads that go there. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: backboard on February 26, 2007, 08:57:52 PM
Just curious if anyone could give a break down of Fisher for those who aren't aware of the school.  Simply trying to inquire what Wentworth will be up against.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2007, 10:27:27 PM
Fisher poses a very strong inside outside combination...Beigel and McSweeny on the inside are very tough and when Mueller and Baltz are hitting there 3's fisher is a very tough team to beat
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 26, 2007, 10:51:28 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 26, 2007, 04:29:41 PM
Predictions for this wkend:
1st Round:

Fisher +11

UofR +7

St. Lawrence +4

Bport +2

Wooster  +7

Centre + 4

John Carrol +6

2nd round:

Fisher vsUofR  - Fisher +1

Bport Vs St. Lawrence - Bport +2

Wooster vs Centre - Wooster+5

lake Erie vs John Carrol - Lake Eirre +4

This may be a stupid question, and I probably know the answer, but, to you, is Fisher an underdog against anybody EVER, let alone on their home floor? You do recall the most recent matchup in the Fisher/UR saga, no? If not, it was a 29-point rout. I'm really interested to know who Fisher would be an underdog against in their home gym. Amherst? The San Antonio Spurs? God?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 27, 2007, 02:03:36 AM
fisher is a hard team to prepare for. as you said when mueller and baltz are hitting there is no stopping that and mcsweeny, beigel and smalt are a force under the hoop. What you have to watch out for is their bench if THE WORST COACH IN AMERICA rob kornaker or however you spell his name ever puts anyone from it in the game. McKeever and Fenyn play lockdown defense and both can create off the dribble. Also Bearden comes in and brings a whole new level of intensity with him and he has a stroke.

as far as are they ever underdogs? yes. U of R and Amherst are top notch teams  and for fisher to beat either of them they will have to be firing on all cylinders.


p.s. rob kornaker is the worst coach in the league which is why U of R routed fisher the way they did... coaching...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 27, 2007, 08:36:33 AM
Quote from: keystonelight on February 27, 2007, 02:03:36 AM
fisher is a hard team to prepare for. as you said when mueller and baltz are hitting there is no stopping that and mcsweeny, beigel and smalt are a force under the hoop. What you have to watch out for is their bench if THE WORST COACH IN AMERICA rob kornaker or however you spell his name ever puts anyone from it in the game. McKeever and Fenyn play lockdown defense and both can create off the dribble. Also Bearden comes in and brings a whole new level of intensity with him and he has a stroke.

as far as are they ever underdogs? yes. U of R and Amherst are top notch teams  and for fisher to beat either of them they will have to be firing on all cylinders.

p.s. rob kornaker is the worst coach in the league which is why U of R routed fisher the way they did... coaching...


You forgot to mention how terrible a job he's done losing 3 senior starters including the conference player of the year and still getting his team to win the conference championship.  That really is the icing on his "terrible" coaching cake.


Quote from: backboard on February 26, 2007, 08:57:52 PM
Just curious if anyone could give a break down of Fisher for those who aren't aware of the school.  Simply trying to inquire what Wentworth will be up against.

The key to beating Fisher is defensive pressure on their perimeter players.  If you have the athletes and a bench it's nice to press.  They have a couple of young guards who are prone to turning the ball over.  Additionally, if you can stay up on their guards and limit their open looks you will be in good shape.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2007, 08:46:33 AM
worst coach?
wow- sounds like sour grapes to me.
did he not recruit you?

you are right with his winning percentage alone- he really is the worst coach!   :P
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 27, 2007, 09:01:55 AM
go bombers, Idk why you praise UofR so much, yes they did murder fisher last time out.  EVERYGAME is a game, uofr came out hitting all there shots they were on fire, game was over from the start.  If there is a different start to that game, the game would have been much different, give me a break.  Is fisher ever an underdog at home? of course if they are playing amherst or Wooster, Uof R ah id put it at even.  In the past few seasons id say Fisher would not be an underdog at home to anyone, this year, they rely a little too much on muellers hot shooting and too little from their bench.  This is going to haunt them when they play a good team like UofR, Amherst, or athletic teams such as bport who will pressure Fishers guards.

Bamm I agree, If i was playing Fisher I would pressure their guards like crazy and deny the wings.

Backcourt, what do us fisher fans need to know about wentworth?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on February 27, 2007, 09:19:47 AM
Let me get this right

Kornaker has been the Head Coach for 6 years
His record for those 6 years is 132 wins and 35 loses (best winning % in all DIII)
Take away his first season in which he finished 500, I believe he was 13 wins and 13 loses
he has been to the NCAA's the last five years
He's won or shared coach of the year award the last 5 years
He won east region coach of the year 3 years ago
He go's 22 and 5 after losing 4 starters.

Man he really is a Bad coach,If you like to WIN!!

I would like somebody to tell me somebody who has done a better job in there first 6 years on the job in DIII or any Level

P.S. There is only one Coach in the area that you could say is Better and that Would be Coach Neer

So stop Bad mouthing Coach Kornaker because he doesn't play your friends

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2007, 10:04:31 AM
I mean what's that saying about Kornakers recruiting...he has guys that are good enough to start at most DIII schools playing minutes of the bench
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 27, 2007, 10:16:11 AM
agreed superman.

2 years ago when fisher was older the 2nd team could have won the league.

charlie zahn PF
Justin Beigel PF
Ramie AumanSF
Pete GilletSG
Dan muellerPG

Hell even the 3rd squad would have finished in the top 3-4

Corie hepburn PF
Isiah smalt PF
adrian fenyn SF
mark bearden SG
tim coyne/mckeaver/huetter PG

Recruiting is kornackers #1 strength and probably the most important strength you can have in D3. he just has to work on his weakness, making more cuts.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2007, 10:19:45 AM
Quote from: GPT on February 27, 2007, 09:19:47 AM
Let me get this right

Kornaker has been the Head Coach for 6 years
His record for those 6 years is 132 wins and 35 loses (best winning % in all DIII)
Take away his first season in which he finished 500, I believe he was 13 wins and 13 loses
he has been to the NCAA's the last five years
He's won or shared coach of the year award the last 5 years
He won east region coach of the year 3 years ago
He go's 22 and 5 after losing 4 starters.

Man he really is a Bad coach,If you like to WIN!!

I would like somebody to tell me somebody who has done a better job in there first 6 years on the job in DIII or any Level

P.S. There is only one Coach in the area that you could say is Better and that Would be Coach Neer

So stop Bad mouthing Coach Kornaker because he doesn't play your friends



I'm not saying he's better, but Whitmore at B'port is in the same league as Kornaker. The SUNYAC will always have more teams to rise up in various years (Potsdam two years ago, Cortland last year) but Brockport always seems to be right there. You also have to consider that 'Port loses one player each year for various reasons (Zenkel, Rother) yet they are always a quality squad. I think if you tossed Fisher into the SUNYAC and measured its success over a greater span of time, it would probably be similar to Brockport's. Whitmore is on the level with Kornaker.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 27, 2007, 10:20:43 AM
Quote from: GPT on February 27, 2007, 09:19:47 AM
Let me get this right

Kornaker has been the Head Coach for 6 years
His record for those 6 years is 132 wins and 35 loses (best winning % in all DIII)
Take away his first season in which he finished 500, I believe he was 13 wins and 13 loses
he has been to the NCAA's the last five years
He's won or shared coach of the year award the last 5 years
He won east region coach of the year 3 years ago
He go's 22 and 5 after losing 4 starters.

Man he really is a Bad coach,If you like to WIN!!

I would like somebody to tell me somebody who has done a better job in there first 6 years on the job in DIII or any Level

P.S. There is only one Coach in the area that you could say is Better and that Would be Coach Neer

So stop Bad mouthing Coach Kornaker because he doesn't play your friends



Don't forget about that National Coach of the year award he won while going 27-0 during the regular season, and going farther than any Fisher team in history the last two seasons. What a awful coach.

Gobombers...I agree about the b-port coach...I think there are some real good coaches in upstate NY. I am not saying Kornaker is by far the best. I think he is one of the best, and that he is not "The worst coach in America"
As far as being an underdog at home...well when they play a team like Amherst or anyother top team in the country of course they are an underdog. Winning virturally every game at home the last 4 years does inspire some confidence. They have also beat U of R this year at home. U of R will be a real tough out for Fisher, but at home Fisher fans believe they can beat them.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2007, 11:27:45 AM
I agree that he isn't one of the worst; I wasn't the one who said he was. I know he's an excellent recruiter and a serviceable in-game coach.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on February 27, 2007, 12:02:08 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 27, 2007, 10:16:11 AM
agreed superman.

2 years ago when fisher was older the 2nd team could have won the league.

charlie zahn PF
Justin Beigel PF
Ramie AumanSF
Pete GilletSG
Dan muellerPG

Hell even the 3rd squad would have finished in the top 3-4

Corie hepburn PF
Isiah smalt PF
adrian fenyn SF
mark bearden SG
tim coyne/mckeaver/huetter PG

Recruiting is kornackers #1 strength and probably the most important strength you can have in D3. he just has to work on his weakness, making more cuts.

Pete Gillet....that name rings a bell. Isn't he the one that came on here and talked smack?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2007, 12:05:39 PM
Quote from: John McGraw on February 27, 2007, 12:02:08 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 27, 2007, 10:16:11 AM
agreed superman.

2 years ago when fisher was older the 2nd team could have won the league.

charlie zahn PF
Justin Beigel PF
Ramie AumanSF
Pete GilletSG
Dan muellerPG

Hell even the 3rd squad would have finished in the top 3-4

Corie hepburn PF
Isiah smalt PF
adrian fenyn SF
mark bearden SG
tim coyne/mckeaver/huetter PG

Recruiting is kornackers #1 strength and probably the most important strength you can have in D3. he just has to work on his weakness, making more cuts.

Pete Gillet....that name rings a bell. Isn't he the one that came on here and talked smack?

Correct. Fisher is usually good for one player or parent per season to come on these boards. This year's men's basketball team hasn't had anyone come on here...yet.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on February 27, 2007, 12:17:00 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 27, 2007, 12:05:39 PM
Quote from: John McGraw on February 27, 2007, 12:02:08 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 27, 2007, 10:16:11 AM
agreed superman.

2 years ago when fisher was older the 2nd team could have won the league.

charlie zahn PF
Justin Beigel PF
Ramie AumanSF
Pete GilletSG
Dan muellerPG

Hell even the 3rd squad would have finished in the top 3-4

Corie hepburn PF
Isiah smalt PF
adrian fenyn SF
mark bearden SG
tim coyne/mckeaver/huetter PG

Recruiting is kornackers #1 strength and probably the most important strength you can have in D3. he just has to work on his weakness, making more cuts.

Pete Gillet....that name rings a bell. Isn't he the one that came on here and talked smack?

Correct. Fisher is usually good for one player or parent per season to come on these boards. This year's men's basketball team hasn't had anyone come on here...yet.

Still lots of time left for that. Though, if the Cards lay an egg against Rochester, all their posters will migrate over to the baseball board and start pronouncing that Fisher is going to take the league title.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 27, 2007, 01:03:57 PM
I'm sure there are some players from more teams than just Fisher they just aren't dumb enough to get caught, haha.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ur2004 on February 27, 2007, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 27, 2007, 09:01:55 AM
go bombers, Idk why you praise UofR so much, yes they did murder fisher last time out. 

Hmm, probably because U of R, as you noted, annihilated SJF 82-53 in their last matchup, on a neutral floor.  Plus, while Mike Neer may not be winning coach of the year awards, instead he's won a national championship and taken U of R to the NCAA Final Four in two of the last six years.

In those last six years, SJF had 5 wins in the NCAAs (Hamilton, Lebanon Valley, Norwich, and Utica x2).  None of those are impressive in the least.

In the same span, UR has had 9 wins in the NCAAs, beating teams including Williams, at Amherst, Calvin, and, yes, SJF.  They also beat up on Babson, Potsdam (right after that team crushed the famously overhyped 28-1 SJF squad), Brockport, Union, and Western Connecticut.

Of course, maybe SJF will actually show up in the tournament this year.  Maybe they'll beat UR.  But until then, it's silly to ask why UR gets more praise than SJF.  They've earned it on the court.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 27, 2007, 02:28:25 PM
Ur2004, I wasnt agruing why UofR gets more praise then Fisher Nationally, they do and should.  I was just stating, in a year where each team beat each other, and Fisher is at home which is a huge advantage, Fisher has a descent shot to win.  This years UofR team is still a year away from making a run at the title.  And yes, I think Coach Neer is a very good coach and has out coached kornacker many times in the past.  However the past few seasons, the two teams have been fairly equal, usually one team winning on their home floor except for last season when Fisher handled UofR on their home floor.  I dont know why your bringing up past recoreds, I didnt bring up Fishers previously better squads and UofR does not have gabe perez or Seth hauben who carried UofR to the championship.  Theres a huge difference between this years team and the team of the past.  I'm not saying that fisher can make a run at the title either, I think UofR is a better team, just Fisher being at home may come out on top slightly. We will see.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 27, 2007, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: ur2004 on February 27, 2007, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 27, 2007, 09:01:55 AM
go bombers, Idk why you praise UofR so much, yes they did murder fisher last time out. 

Hmm, probably because U of R, as you noted, annihilated SJF 82-53 in their last matchup, on a neutral floor.  Plus, while Mike Neer may not be winning coach of the year awards, instead he's won a national championship and taken U of R to the NCAA Final Four in two of the last six years.

In those last six years, SJF had 5 wins in the NCAAs (Hamilton, Lebanon Valley, Norwich, and Utica x2).  None of those are impressive in the least.

In the same span, UR has had 9 wins in the NCAAs, beating teams including Williams, at Amherst, Calvin, and, yes, SJF.  They also beat up on Babson, Potsdam (right after that team crushed the famously overhyped 28-1 SJF squad), Brockport, Union, and Western Connecticut.

Of course, maybe SJF will actually show up in the tournament this year.  Maybe they'll beat UR.  But until then, it's silly to ask why UR gets more praise than SJF.  They've earned it on the court.

UR you are barking up the wrong tree.  No matter how consistently you beat Fisher at anything, their fans always think they are the favorite.  Its science.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on February 27, 2007, 02:34:09 PM
I don't see where all the criticism of Fisher's head coach is coming from.

I think Justin Beigel has done a pretty impressive job going 22-5 in his first year.  You have to remember, he had pretty big shoes to fill.  Sean O'Brien had a great win percentage in his 3 years, and an undefeated regular season to boot.

Who's this Kornaker everyone's talking about?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 27, 2007, 02:36:45 PM
FA91, if you're out there, this goes back to a point I made during football season about a fan base that isn't use to success.  Look what happens...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on February 27, 2007, 03:03:07 PM
Quote from: Cadillac on February 27, 2007, 02:34:09 PM
I don't see where all the criticism of Fisher's head coach is coming from.

I think Justin Beigel has done a pretty impressive job going 22-5 in his first year.  You have to remember, he had pretty big shoes to fill.  Sean O'Brien had a great win percentage in his 3 years, and an undefeated regular season to boot.

Who's this Kornaker everyone's talking about?

Are you kidding me?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2007, 03:12:20 PM
Mr. Chair-
Im here and i hear ya.

Just enjoy the games boys!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2007, 03:21:34 PM
I think there are many FIsher fans who were not happy to see UofR as a potential second round opponent
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2007, 03:29:59 PM
including me.
but the matchup is nevertheless an intriguing one!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 27, 2007, 03:32:32 PM
FA91 and Super:

As the only two apparently rational Fisher fans (seeing as how Tags, Booby and Upstate appear to be one sporters) what do you think of the Kornaker talk?  I mean the guy's record seems to speak for itself to me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2007, 03:42:07 PM
It's all hooey.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
The mans record speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 27, 2007, 03:44:31 PM
How am I not rationale?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: theoriginalupstate on February 27, 2007, 03:49:03 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 27, 2007, 03:32:32 PM
FA91 and Super:

As the only two apparently rational Fisher fans (seeing as how Tags, Booby and Upstate appear to be one sporters) what do you think of the Kornaker talk?  I mean the guy's record seems to speak for itself to me.

Chairman, I am a lurker on the B-Ball boards and I can honestly say the bashing is uncalled for.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2007, 03:58:23 PM
Upstate the lurker- how's it goin?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 27, 2007, 05:31:24 PM
I'll agree winning is important and that kornakers record speaks for itself. But thats all it does it lets you know hes had solid basketball teams. However by no means is his record a testiment to his coaching. Coaching involves management of people, an understanding of the game and class. Tell me where the former has been this season and the latter against utica where kornaker took a very childish and confrontational step at a referee after just having been in a shouting match with him.

Next time you're at a game count how many times he asks his assistants what to do, always looking bewildered, hows that fisher golf team doing since he left?

when the team isn't playing well coaching is supposed to kick in... tell me where that was this season in the losses to alfred(10-14), UofR, RIT(14-10) and Amherst last season where he waited til his team was down 14-2 to use his first timeout.

so please let me know why you're defending him other than his record because it looked like he walked into a pretty cushy job to me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 27, 2007, 05:37:51 PM
As far as for the fisher team i wish them the best of luck this weekend. I'd love for nothing more than to see the fisher team who took U of R in ot and to make a trip to Massachusetts.   
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2007, 05:55:44 PM
I've always been a believer in the quote that "it's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's," implying that it's the players who make coaches look good. That's true to a large extent. However, coaches can be excellent recruiters and bring in the type of players that will make he or she look successful. Before last year, everyone considered Billy Donovan to be only a good recruiter; well, that paid off pretty handsomely last year.

I agree that Kornaker walked into a great situation at Fisher. I also agree that nobody is ever going to mistake him for the best in-game coach around, either. However, if he keeps bringing in top-flight talent, you can't knock his abilities because recruiting is such a huge part of coaching.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 27, 2007, 05:56:45 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on February 27, 2007, 05:31:24 PM
I'll agree winning is important and that kornakers record speaks for itself. But thats all it does it lets you know hes had solid basketball teams. However by no means is his record a testiment to his coaching. Coaching involves management of people, an understanding of the game and class. Tell me where the former has been this season and the latter against utica where kornaker took a very childish and confrontational step at a referee after just having been in a shouting match with him.

Next time you're at a game count how many times he asks his assistants what to do, always looking bewildered, hows that fisher golf team doing since he left?

when the team isn't playing well coaching is supposed to kick in... tell me where that was this season in the losses to alfred(10-14), UofR, RIT(14-10) and Amherst last season where he waited til his team was down 14-2 to use his first timeout.

so please let me know why you're defending him other than his record because it looked like he walked into a pretty cushy job to me.

Sounds to me like someone is not happy with the way his friend from Campbell-Savona high school, Freshman G Matt Newman, is being treated by the head coach at Fisher...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on February 27, 2007, 06:05:01 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 27, 2007, 05:56:45 PM
Sounds to me like someone is not happy with the way his friend from Campbell-Savona high school, Freshman G Matt Newman, is being treated by the head coach at Fisher...

Newman's doing great.

Where do you get that from?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 27, 2007, 06:08:26 PM
Quote from: Cadillac on February 27, 2007, 06:05:01 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 27, 2007, 05:56:45 PM
Sounds to me like someone is not happy with the way his friend from Campbell-Savona high school, Freshman G Matt Newman, is being treated by the head coach at Fisher...

Newman's doing great.

Where do you get that from?

Just a hunch based on that poster's background.  No one is anonymous on these boards.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 27, 2007, 06:11:07 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on February 27, 2007, 05:31:24 PM
I'll agree winning is important and that kornakers record speaks for itself. But thats all it does it lets you know hes had solid basketball teams. However by no means is his record a testiment to his coaching. Coaching involves management of people, an understanding of the game and class. Tell me where the former has been this season and the latter against utica where kornaker took a very childish and confrontational step at a referee after just having been in a shouting match with him.

Next time you're at a game count how many times he asks his assistants what to do, always looking bewildered, hows that fisher golf team doing since he left?

when the team isn't playing well coaching is supposed to kick in... tell me where that was this season in the losses to alfred(10-14), UofR, RIT(14-10) and Amherst last season where he waited til his team was down 14-2 to use his first timeout.

so please let me know why you're defending him other than his record because it looked like he walked into a pretty cushy job to me.

Yeah, keystone, I'm with you.....I say send Kornaker back to Alfred from whence he came. Throw the bum out.  ;)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2007, 06:44:40 PM
When Kornaker has a bad season I'll be the first to call him out on it...everyone goes back to the UofR bashing...and in my mind that was a different team...Fisher is playing with a lot of confidence right now...and that comes from kornaker
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on February 27, 2007, 06:53:22 PM
For your information the ref at the utica game went at kornaker. the ref missed the player coming off the bench after the hard foul on bryant Which is automatic technal the ref wase doing the bumping and cursing not the coach.

Keystone I guess you have a problem with Coach Kornaker. I know him Quite Well and I know he would do anything for his players. I suggest you get to know the man before you start critizing.All he does is win and if you have a problem with that I suggest you seek Help

As for asking asst. coaches for help and input isn't that why they are there
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on February 27, 2007, 07:09:32 PM
Quote from: GPT on February 27, 2007, 06:53:22 PM
As for asking asst. coaches for help and input isn't that why they are there

It's a smart man who solicits others' perspectives, who isn't convinced he knows it all. We all have blind spots. Heck, I've even got a bald spot but wouldn't have known had my wife not penned a sketch of me from my backside while I was sitting at a computer.  :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 27, 2007, 07:22:34 PM
how does being from canaseraga make me a campbellsavona fan club member?
besides newman is doing as well as a freshman can. he'll be a good player for years to come. i don't see where hes being mistreated. I don't remember when starting 22-27 games and averaging 25 minutes and almost 7 points a game for a freshman guard qualifies as poor treatment. call me crazy.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 27, 2007, 07:25:17 PM

Just a hunch based on that poster's background.  No one is anonymous on these boards.
[/quote]

apparently my anonymity is in tact.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on February 27, 2007, 08:32:26 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 27, 2007, 03:32:32 PM
FA91 and Super:

As the only two apparently rational Fisher fans (seeing as how Tags, Booby and Upstate appear to be one sporters) what do you think of the Kornaker talk?  I mean the guy's record seems to speak for itself to me.

This seems a little short sighted dont you think. While I agree some Fisher fans a a little ambitious there are more than two rational fans. I don't think that Fisher b-ball fans are much different than Utica fans, or IC football fans (see the football boards after the third loss this season). Some Fans sound crazy, but they are just passionate. Nothing wrong with that. 

Eveyone thinks their team is better than they are. Everyone thinks their team has a chance to win. What is wrong with that?

As for Fisher fans not being used to success. the basketball team has gone to the NCAA 13 out of the last 16 years. That is a lot longer run of success than most people on this board have payed attention to DIII basketball. The success of the football team is relatively new, but other than that most sports have gone on as usual for a long time.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 27, 2007, 09:09:53 PM
 :( -2 karma...ouch

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 27, 2007, 09:44:47 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 26, 2007, 04:03:46 PM
I think it is poor sportsman ship to not accept the bid...the seniors deserve one last hoorah...Utica would have clearly been the #1 seed and would ave had home games...to sit at home and pout because you choked at the end of the season is wrong

No, I don't believe poor sportsmanship is the case. I think it is a matter where school and academics override the ECACs.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 27, 2007, 09:48:32 PM
i agree. its time for mid terms at most schools. if i'm a coach i decline the bid also. talking to players who have been there they'd rather not play in the ecacs anyhow.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2007, 10:22:34 PM
I'm sorry for many of these players it is the last time you will ever play basketball...take the oppurtunity and win the ECAC's and do NOT give me the acdemics excuse because we all know that Utica would not decline an NCAA's bid if it was offered so don't give me that sh*ty excuse...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 27, 2007, 10:46:27 PM
players i know from more than one school think the ecacs are a joke. no joke utica would accept an ncaa bid. thats the big dance. not some pointless tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DirkDiggler on February 27, 2007, 11:05:56 PM
Superman, have you ever played anything competitive?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2007, 11:12:48 PM
at some point it becomes about the love of playing the game...you don't see those other 8 teams at home pouting that they didn't make the ncaa's they are happy to be able to play a little longer.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: magicman on February 27, 2007, 11:14:04 PM
It seems like everyone already has Fisher meeting UR on March 3rd. Plattsburgh State might have something to say about that. Myself, I would like nothing better than to see the Cardinals playing the Cardinals on Sat. nite.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2007, 11:15:02 PM
I think some fisher fans including myself would like to not have to see UofR, but they are a very dangerous team
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2007, 11:26:57 PM
and what does it matter if I have never played sports...doesn't mean a thing...and for the most part people agree with me that if Utica was offered a spot in the ECAC's they should play....in my opinoin if you can physically play and your team is being given a chance to play don't take it away from the seniors who might never play again and play the game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 28, 2007, 08:06:08 AM
Ok Dirk-
I did play varsity sports for fisher - although in the dark ages-and i agree with super that turning down the ecac's is nuts - in any sport!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 28, 2007, 09:25:21 AM
Good conversation on here last night.

sjfcards: You make some good points.  Every school has the occassional poster that shows up for a week/month or two, drops some bombs, says ridiculous things, and then is beaten off into that good night.  Seems like the Fisher regulars on the hoop board (well, to be honest, all the regulars on the hoops board) are more ornary then the regulars on the other boards.  During football season we discussed an interesting trend where some Fisher fans were handling the new success poorly.  I really don't remember the details but FA91, Super, and Upstate surely do.  Basically, I just find it interesting that Fisher gets a second men's team in the playoffs this year and the Fisher fans are calling for the coach's head...again.  (Yes, I recognize that I was often the instigator of the football discussions).

ECAC:  I agree with everyone about this.  I think it is definitely a good tournament to play in.  I doubt how much it affects academics (well how much more it affects academics).  My guess is UC set their goals so high that they decided not to play in the ECAC's because they figured they wouldn't get a best effort from their club given the disappointment at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 09:53:59 AM
I get a bunch of crap for predicting in my opinion Fisher +1 against UofR on Fisher home court where they already beat them this year and get S*&$ for it.  Just as an FYI - Nescac posters predict Fisher to beat UofR at Fisher as well, so its not that out of the ordinary.


DOWN WITH THE CHAIRMAN!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 28, 2007, 10:14:48 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 09:53:59 AM
DOWN WITH THE CHAIRMAN!

Another common SJF refrain.  Superman, tell your buddy how succesful coup d'etats have been in E8Nation.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 10:15:41 AM
Jose, sounds like your on a powertrip.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 28, 2007, 10:22:12 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 10:15:41 AM
Jose, sounds like your on a powertrip.

Meh, probably.

I tell you what, tell me 1) Why is this game more like Fisher's OT win in December than Fisher's 30-point loss in January? and (2)  Why Fisher's home court advantage is equally relevant in a this game when the opponent is not traveling, staying in a hotel, or coming without fans? If you answer those questions, I will reconsider my opinion about you.  Otherwise, picking Fisher as a favorite is irrational.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 28, 2007, 10:26:50 AM
ok first off going against Jose probably doesn't work, though Jose I think your approval rating has fallen a little bit...secondly can fisher beat UofR yes they have already proven that....will they beat UofR, I'm not sure....it will be a good game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 28, 2007, 10:31:28 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 28, 2007, 10:26:50 AM
ok first off going against Jose probably doesn't work, though Jose I think your approval rating has fallen a little bit...

Yeah, I am expecting my approval rating to rebound if we pull off the first annual E8Nation Tailgate Party at Fisher-IC.  I also have an announcement waiting in the wings that might help it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 10:33:49 AM
1) UofR has not beaten Fisher at Fisher since i dont even remember before 2002.  2) a 30 point thrashing was on a neutral court not Fisher and UofR played unbelievable, if they play like that again they could make it back to the national championship (will they play like that again, highly unlikely), 3) Fisher especially having younger players, is much more comfortable on their home floor and play 10x better 4) traveling has nothing to do with it, its the atmosphere of the smaler gym and confidence boost for Fishers players.  Everygame is a game, if you havnt noticed from past seasons when fisher falls they fall hard.  A loss is a loss no matter how much you get beat by. We will see, if UofR does win this wkend if the two meet up, it will not be a blow out similarly to last meeting, i know that much. I think its going to be a crazy game, depending a lot on outside shooting and foul trouble of Fishers bigs.  The only thing that worries me from UofR is their better coaching, Coach Neer seems to prepare his players better then Fisher's preparation. Also, Fishers young guards may not be up to the NCAA tourny atmosphere, time will tell.  However, I believe Fisher is playing its best basketball right now same with UofR.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on February 28, 2007, 10:34:37 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 28, 2007, 10:22:12 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 10:15:41 AM
Jose, sounds like your on a powertrip.

Meh, probably.

I tell you what, tell me 1) Why is this game more like Fisher's OT win in December than Fisher's 30-point loss in January? and (2)  Why Fisher's home court advantage is equally relevant in a this game when the opponent is not traveling, staying in a hotel, or coming without fans? If you answer those questions, I will reconsider my opinion about you.  Otherwise, picking Fisher as a favorite is irrational.

Jose -- I've been enjoying you tangling with the Fisher faithful here if for no other reason than by this time of the year I'm tired of doing it...  But, I'm going to disagree with you regarding the homecourt advantage for the Cards simply because I can give you several examples over the last few years where decent local teams have come into that gym and been completely blitzed (with a healthy contingent of fans).  The homecourt advantage they have is all about the environment of that gym -- there isn't a gym like it in this conference. 

That being said, the student crowd will be diminished and this team isn't as capable as Fisher teams of the recent past.  So, I still like UR's chances.  Maybe I have no point.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 10:46:16 AM
I agree Bamm, its going to be a great game.  UofR being the slightly better team that is a little better coached and Fisher having the home court advantage. I hope the two meet so this can be settled.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 28, 2007, 11:01:53 AM
These are fair points but sort of dodge the main thrust of my previous questions.  Let me elaborate on my questions.

Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 10:33:49 AM
1) UofR has not beaten Fisher at Fisher since i dont even remember before 2002.  2) a 30 point thrashing was on a neutral court not Fisher and UofR played unbelievable, if they play like that again they could make it back to the national championship (will they play like that again, highly unlikely), 3) Fisher especially having younger players, is much more comfortable on their home floor and play 10x better

I know one game was at home while the other was at Fisher.  I also know all about Fisher's gym and crowd (from personal experience).  Do you honestly believe, however, that the gym is the only difference?  Put another way, is Fisher's gym good for 31 points?

In my mind, the fact that the blowout loss came in a month into the season is more relevant than the locations of the games.

Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 10:33:49 AM
4) traveling has nothing to do with it, its the atmosphere of the smaler gym and confidence boost for Fishers players.  Everygame is a game, if you havnt noticed from past seasons when fisher falls they fall hard.  A loss is a loss no matter how much you get beat by.

Traveling certainly does have an effect on the way a team plays in any gym.  I thought it was clear as well that the Fisher students would not be around for this game, should it happen.  Doesn't that dent the atmosphere.  My memory is that the atmosphere was fueled solely by students.  Some have argued that the students will blow off Spring Break to come back for the game.  If that is the case, then why didn't the same students drive across town to bring the "atmosphere" with them to Chase?

Also, just out of curiosity, what does "every game is a game" mean?

Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 10:33:49 AM
We will see, if UofR does win this wkend if the two meet up, it will not be a blow out similarly to last meeting, i know that much. I think its going to be a crazy game, depending a lot on outside shooting and foul trouble of Fishers bigs.  The only thing that worries me from UofR is their better coaching, Coach Neer seems to prepare his players better then Fisher's preparation. Also, Fishers young guards may not be up to the NCAA tourny atmosphere, time will tell.  However, I believe Fisher is playing its best basketball right now same with UofR.

Just thought it was interesting that coaching shows up again in this discussion...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on February 28, 2007, 11:02:46 AM
In terms of fans, I'd take the Yellow Swarm over the Cardinal Crazies.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 11:09:01 AM
every game is a game means you should not look at points in previous victories, we have already went over that in previous posts how if a team beats another team by 20 a team that beat that team by 10 should win by 30.  i know these are the same two teams playing again.  Example. tennessee was beating florida by 30 last night? if they play again on floridas court do you honestly think that will happen again? NO.  Tennessee came out on Fire as did UofR did, game was over from there. Even if the game was on a neutral floor or UofR i would still think itd be a great/close game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 11:11:37 AM
being a fisher fan i'd agree that the student section for u of r will probably be stronger than the crazies. the crazies are the worst student section in the empire 8 if the game isn't against nazareth.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 28, 2007, 11:12:24 AM
John in most instances I would agree with you...but it depends on what crazies you get...if you get the crazies that come out of Naz there is nothing like that in DIII but for some reason most fans at fisher are casual fans except for a few extreme fisher fans so there fore you could get a crowd that is really into the game or one that is only into it if fisher is in a close game
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 28, 2007, 11:13:13 AM
and keystone be careful using the word worst you can say what you wanted to say with out looking like an ass
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 11:13:33 AM
tennessee game is a great point. by the way did anyone see floridas ugly ugly ugly uniforms?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 11:15:15 AM
ok superman... so sorry for discrediting your prominant fisher fan section. which when the games are once again not against naz its 5 parents 2 old guys and a dog.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 11:16:54 AM
to add on to my argument to Jose, I forgot to mention the massacre between fisher and Ithaca their first time out at Fisher when Fisher one by 30+.  What happened the 2nd game at Ithaca? oh wait 3 or 4 overtimes to decide a winner. I hope my point has been made.  thank you
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 11:23:50 AM
i don't see the location being the deciding factor of the game IF IT HAPPENS. Last season nazareth came into the varsity gym and totally shut down fishers fans for a good portion of the game and naz won by what? 1-3 points? This isn't really traveling either, these kids are sleeping in their own beds eating breakfast at the usual place and going through the same routine they'd go through if they were playing at home. U of R is 15 minutes away at best. Some fisher kids drive almost that just to get to campus. If fisher comes out pumped up they play well, if they come out without motivation they'll get stomped.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 11:27:44 AM
I agree to some extent keystone, however dont forget when naz plays fisher their crowd is just as big.  Also, just being able to play in your own gym without fans is still an advantage, most teams shoot much better at home, they are used to the rims, that has an impact.  But that being said, I think both teams are fairly equal in talent, fisher on the younger side at the guard positions and a little worse off in the coaching  department.  Should be a great game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 28, 2007, 11:31:37 AM
keystone I'm not arguing your point, but to say it is the worst is to0 rash of an argument, have you ever been to elmira or hartwick or even when I was at the fisher-Ithaca game 06 in Ithaca there were probably more fisher fans than ithaca fans at the game....so to sa
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 11:35:24 AM
yes maybe that was too rash. its just disapointing to me when i'm at every game and soemtimes theres a decent fan section whose pumped and ready to support there team and then the very next night they say one cheer before the game and you don't hear anything from them the rest of the night.

As far as teams knowing their own court better, yes that is true. There is no confidence booster like walking out of your own locker rooms onto a court with cardinals written on either end.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 28, 2007, 01:28:53 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 11:09:01 AM
every game is a game means you should not look at points in previous victories, we have already went over that in previous posts how if a team beats another team by 20 a team that beat that team by 10 should win by 30.  i know these are the same two teams playing again.  Example. tennessee was beating florida by 30 last night? if they play again on floridas court do you honestly think that will happen again? NO.  Tennessee came out on Fire as did UofR did, game was over from there. Even if the game was on a neutral floor or UofR i would still think itd be a great/close game.

So the score has no relevance when determining how good each team is?  Its not as if Fisher beat UR by 1 and UR beat Fisher by 5 so UR is better by 4.  A loss and a 30-point loss are different things.

As for the Gators, they may have been down by 30 but, did they lose by 30?

On a related matter, I never understood why everyone said they felt more comfortable shooting on "their rims."  Playing on the road never bothered the Chairman.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 02:15:44 PM
The Chairman obvioulsy doesn't get the logic behind the ithaca vs fisher example, as clearly as that is comparable to my statements and easy to understand as that is.

Also to your other point, who asked if the "chairman" is comfortable playing on other peoples rims. 

Lastly, on the LL board both a SLU fan & a Hamilton fanhave predicted fisher to beat uofr and to meet slu in the sweet 16.  The majority of posters have posted in favor of fisher at home to beat UofR.  Either way you want to come back on this one, doesnt really matter, as it is obviously the game and match up is a very good one and should be very close.  I hope your not as ignorant as your coming off using the 30 pt win as UofR should win by another 30pts. Please re-read the Ithaca example, thanks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 28, 2007, 03:32:34 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 02:15:44 PM
The Chairman obvioulsy doesn't get the logic behind the ithaca vs fisher example, as clearly as that is comparable to my statements and easy to understand as that is.

Your analogy was certainly easier to understand than this sentence.

Fisher beat IC by 30 the first time and then beat them by not 30 the second time.  Answer me this:  Was IC the favorite in the second game?  After all, the first game was played not on IC's floor.  Had IC won, would it have been an upset?

Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 02:15:44 PM
Also to your other point, who asked if the "chairman" is comfortable playing on other peoples rims. 

See below:
Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 11:27:44 AM
Imost teams shoot much better at home, they are used to the rims, that has an impact.

I was merely stating that I always thought this was funny when I was playing.  I never felt more or less comfortable on a specific rim even though I would hear people in the media talk about this supposed advantage all the time.

Did it affect you when you played at Fisher?

Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 02:15:44 PM
Lastly, on the LL board both a SLU fan & a Hamilton fanhave predicted fisher to beat uofr and to meet slu in the sweet 16. 

A SLU fan AND a Hamilton fan.  Seriously?  Well I had no idea.  Please disregard my prior posts to the contrary.

Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 02:15:44 PM
I hope your not as ignorant as your coming off using the 30 pt win as UofR should win by another 30pts. Please re-read the Ithaca example, thanks.

Please show me where I said UR would win by 30.  I simply said Fisher would not be the favorite.  I also happen to think Fisher will lose to UR.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 03:58:30 PM
Jose, I see where your coming from with the favorite thing, However, the argument is still irrelevant... this is because, Fisher beat UofR the first time out, and lost to them the 2nd.  If Ithaca beat Fisher the first time out, and lost to them the second, and Ithaca's resume was better as far as being as close to fisher in talent, then many people would probably think Ithaca could win and may win in the 3rd match up if it was being played on their home floor where they play well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 28, 2007, 04:06:09 PM
good god- let's get on with the games already!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 28, 2007, 04:08:35 PM
I have been trying to lead you to water but for some reason you won't drink, so I will just ask the question directly:  Is there a difference between a December game, a January game, and a March game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 28, 2007, 04:14:00 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 28, 2007, 04:06:09 PM
good god- let's get on with the games already!

Sage advice from E8Nation's Senior Advisor.  This board isn't nearly as bad as the Gwynedd-Mercy fan on the Women's E8 Board.  He must be fan of d3's cousin or something.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on February 28, 2007, 04:27:39 PM
Thanks Mr. Chair.
Im getting tired of the tired banter.

Not sick- but tired......
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on February 28, 2007, 04:45:50 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 11:35:24 AM
its just disapointing to me when i'm at every game and soemtimes theres a decent fan section whose pumped and ready to support there team and then the very next night they say one cheer before the game and you don't hear anything from them the rest of the night.

Or better yet, they leave midway through the first to go to the mall.  If only Naz was every game.

Elmira's got a pulse... but all the students are at the Domes going crazy for the hockey team.  I've also seen a GREAT student crowd at Hartwick for a lousy basketball team.

I expect mostly alums in the gym this weekend... and I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on February 28, 2007, 05:34:40 PM
Word on Wentworth is they've got no beef inside.  The opportunity is there for Beigel, McSweeney, and Smalt.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on February 28, 2007, 05:37:27 PM
Am I looking at this bracket right?

Fisher isn't in Amherst's region?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2007, 06:00:55 PM
Wentworth is a team with pretty good athletes that likes to run up and down and shoot the ball.  they start 5'11, 6'0, 6'0, 6'2, and 6'3.  there bigger players although smaller are athetic and can hit the boards pretty hard.  There best players are there guards tho, so they will need very big games from them.  I think Fishers size and good defense are going to be real big factors in the game. From talks with Wentworth fans and other posters on the CCC boards, Wentworth has not seen a team like Fisher this year and is expected to have some problems. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on February 28, 2007, 07:30:58 PM
Boy I hope a really good Plattsburg team doesn't spoil the party? They beat a GOOD b-port team and may be a real test for U of R.  Budcrew ordinarily I agree with what you say, but Utica probably would have been the number 1 seed so there would have been little or no traveling.  IDK why they passed on the ECAC but I have seen players from traveling teams hoping and praying they would get an invite.  Everyone likes to have the possibilty of winning their last game. I agree that academics are important but I think sparing 4 hrs on a Wed with any subsequent games being a weekend could be managed. My .02
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 07:46:48 PM
I think plattsburg has a good chance and i might attend the university so i'm rooting for cardinals all the way around.

Also i feel like regardless of what happened at roberts with u of r and fisher that the two teams will have a great game if they do play. Word hsa it that smalt has had onyurukas number since the 7th grade?

and on the ecacs... the teams praying for a bid are the teams who have given up all hope on the ncaas... once again players from good teams... fisher, u of r and utica think the ecacs are a J-O-K-E.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 07:48:32 PM
so chairman? any idea on who i am yet?

i could be a players disgruntled father.
i could be your mother or i could be santa clause.

how un-anonymous do you think i am?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on February 28, 2007, 08:14:00 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 07:46:48 PM
I think plattsburg has a good chance

No doubt.

I think whoever survives the weekend in Pittsford has a good chance to do some serious road trippin'.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on February 28, 2007, 10:15:16 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 07:48:32 PM
so chairman? any idea on who i am yet?

i could be a players disgruntled father.
i could be your mother or i could be santa clause.

how un-anonymous do you think i am?

I know you played soccer at Campbell-Savona Middle School and High School, graduated in 2004, enrolled at MCC in the fall and should have just graduated from MCC last spring.

More questions?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on February 28, 2007, 10:19:29 PM
jose I'm disapointed anyone else and you would have already had the picture of the person
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on February 28, 2007, 10:20:47 PM
I think it was wrong for Utica to big-time the ECAC's. It's one thing for Hamilton to do it; at least they have some tradition. Maybe Utica didn't want the embarrassment of playing in a tournament they weren't going to win. They did, after all, lose four of their last five games.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 10:38:20 PM
its really a bummer you know so much about my cousin... you skipped his season at ccc
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 10:56:58 PM
lol ok its me but f*#k you're sneaky
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 28, 2007, 11:29:17 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 28, 2007, 10:20:47 PM
I think it was wrong for Utica to big-time the ECAC's. It's one thing for Hamilton to do it; at least they have some tradition. Maybe Utica didn't want the embarrassment of playing in a tournament they weren't going to win. They did, after all, lose four of their last five games.

Aren't the applications due a couple weeks before the end of the season?  Maybe it simply didn't occur to Utica that they'd need to be in the ECACs...or they said at that point "screw it, if we're not in the NCAAs we'll have collapsed so badly we wouldn't want to play anyway."

BTW, Ithaca whipped RPI tonight 80-69 at the Bulb.  Burton went off for 29 points and 9 assists; Bostic had 20 points and 13 rebounds.  Sam Simmons leads RPI with 21 and 11.

Pretty sure that means they go to Vassar for the semis, you know I'm there if that's the case.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 28, 2007, 11:51:14 PM
Oswego beat RIT 74-63.  Tim Bacon led the Tigers with 25 and 14 and Scott Young had 17 pts and 8 boards.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 01, 2007, 12:43:58 AM
Quote from: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 10:56:58 PM
lol ok its me but f*#k you're sneaky

Dude, what did you expect? This is the E8Nation's Chairman! He knows what he's doing!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 01, 2007, 12:51:07 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 28, 2007, 10:20:47 PM
I think it was wrong for Utica to big-time the ECAC's. It's one thing for Hamilton to do it; at least they have some tradition. Maybe Utica didn't want the embarrassment of playing in a tournament they weren't going to win. They did, after all, lose four of their last five games.

I agree with CAZ... (2 posts after GB15s.) I dont think Utica "big-timed" the ECACs... they probably decided they weren't going to play in them for the sheer fact that when apps were due, they would have been definitely in;the NCAA tournament. When they failed to make the tournament, you cant double back to get a bid because they are already handed out in advance.

Also, I know this rule works for football because I did part of my ATR East column on it this year, but don't teams who accept ECAC bids have to pay a lot of money for those games? To my knowledge, away teams have to pay to travel, lodging, meals, all the expenses that an NCAA tournament team gets to have on Myles Brand and the rest of the "No Continuity Anytime Association's" dime.

Even hosts rack up a good amount of costs for facility use, concessions (if any) and a good amount of non-monetary costs, including time to prepare and things like that.

Maybe I'm off base and wrong, and I hope someone could tell me differently what is right, but something tells me in this situation, Utica didn't "big-time" the ECACs, James Spartano and the rest of the Athletics Department may have decided that it would cost too much money with not enough reward for anyone..

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2007, 01:11:27 AM
Many schools turn down the ECACs. Sometimes it's left up to a vote of the seniors -- other places it's simply institutional policy to not participate.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Maximuh on March 01, 2007, 06:34:50 AM
Quote from: budcrew08 on March 01, 2007, 12:51:07 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on February 28, 2007, 10:20:47 PM
I think it was wrong for Utica to big-time the ECAC's. It's one thing for Hamilton to do it; at least they have some tradition. Maybe Utica didn't want the embarrassment of playing in a tournament they weren't going to win. They did, after all, lose four of their last five games.

I agree with CAZ... (2 posts after GB15s.) I dont think Utica "big-timed" the ECACs... they probably decided they weren't going to play in them for the sheer fact that when apps were due, they would have been definitely in;the NCAA tournament. When they failed to make the tournament, you cant double back to get a bid because they are already handed out in advance.

Also, I know this rule works for football because I did part of my ATR East column on it this year, but don't teams who accept ECAC bids have to pay a lot of money for those games? To my knowledge, away teams have to pay to travel, lodging, meals, all the expenses that an NCAA tournament team gets to have on Myles Brand and the rest of the "No Continuity Anytime Association's" dime.

Even hosts rack up a good amount of costs for facility use, concessions (if any) and a good amount of non-monetary costs, including time to prepare and things like that.

Maybe I'm off base and wrong, and I hope someone could tell me differently what is right, but something tells me in this situation, Utica didn't "big-time" the ECACs, James Spartano and the rest of the Athletics Department may have decided that it would cost too much money with not enough reward for anyone..



Capital might have been problem, but the womens team just last night held an ECAC game. Also last year they were involved in a game. From where I look at the situation I see a team that might have not believed they could have won the ECAC's. Maybe not going to them could remove them from the entire situation of not having the possibility of losing another game.

Thats my $.02
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 01, 2007, 07:58:12 AM
Quote from: keystonelight on February 28, 2007, 10:56:58 PM
lol ok its me but f*#k you're sneaky

We got pretty good at it during football season since we had a ton of players posting in E8Nation.

All hail Nick Gatto
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 01, 2007, 08:13:05 AM
RIT finishes the season the same way they started... shooting poorly from the free throw line.  13-28 last night.  They outrebounded Oswego 51 to 38.  Nice to see Bacon finish his career with a great game, 25 pts (11-16), 14 boards. 

Gethers should take over the Alpha Dog roll on the offensive end next season for the Tigers.  Zeinfeld, Whitwood, and Roy all return.  Freshman Scott Young had 17 against the Lakers last night, he's 6'6" with a lot of range.  Should be another year they can contend.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on March 01, 2007, 10:40:43 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 28, 2007, 01:28:53 PM

On a related matter, I never understood why everyone said they felt more comfortable shooting on "their rims."  Playing on the road never bothered the Chairman.

It appears you are a rare bird, Jose.....players who say they enjoyed the McLane Center antics of the  Saxon Sillies in general, and the Dancing Cow in particular, are few and far between.

U G L Y, you don't have an alibi,
You're UGLY, you're UGLY...
M A M A, that is why you look that way,
Your Mama, your Mama!



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on March 01, 2007, 10:42:30 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 01, 2007, 07:58:12 AM
We got pretty good at it during football season since we had a ton of players posting in E8Nation.

All hail Nick Gatto

All hail the "legendary" exited AU poster Nick Gatto......ever-lovin' Saterday!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 01, 2007, 10:45:20 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on March 01, 2007, 10:40:43 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on February 28, 2007, 01:28:53 PM

On a related matter, I never understood why everyone said they felt more comfortable shooting on "their rims."  Playing on the road never bothered the Chairman.

It appears you are a rare bird, Jose.....players who say they enjoyed the McLane Center antics of the  Saxon Sillies in general, and the Dancing Cow in particular, are few and far between.

U G L Y, you don't have an alibi,
You're UGLY, you're UGLY...
M A M A, that is why you look that way,
Your Mama, your Mama!



By far the best gym in the conference in my days.  Sure Fisher has loyal fans or whatever but those guys at Alfred were fricking hilarious.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 01, 2007, 11:29:42 AM
I honestly never went to the AU gym....Had to deal with the brady bunch backyard turf though.....Sweet lord that stuff was bad!  My knees hurt just thinking about it!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 01, 2007, 11:31:25 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 01, 2007, 11:29:42 AM
I honestly never went to the AU gym....Had to deal with the brady bunch backyard turf though.....Sweet lord that stuff was bad!  My knees hurt just thinking about it!

They had these four guys that heckled the visiting team.  Not the nasty heckling so much as hilarious stuff that you couldn't help but laugh at.  The funniest one wore a cow suit to all the games.  Good stuff.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 01, 2007, 11:37:08 AM
Nice.
Every time we went to AU it was a monsoon- so the fans were a non issue.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: John McGraw on March 01, 2007, 11:40:04 AM
For our new posters and relatives of St. John Fisher players.

It's spelled Plattsburgh, with an "h," not Plattsburg.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 01, 2007, 11:43:21 AM
Ouch- that one hurt- but very funny!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 01, 2007, 12:11:21 PM
John- i bet they know that there is one t in Pitsford.....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 01, 2007, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: John McGraw on March 01, 2007, 11:40:04 AM
For our new posters and relatives of St. John Fisher players.

It's spelled Plattsburgh, with an "h," not Plattsburg.

Plattsburgh?  I thought we were talking about Prattsburg.

They're a lock to go to Glens Falls.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 01, 2007, 08:30:18 PM
My predictions for this weekend at Fisher:


U of R over Plattsburgh by 14. I think Plattsburgh will suprise a more talented Rochester team. U of R will hang with the early push, and pull away late.

Fisher over Wentworth by 12. Fisher is tough to beat at home, and I think will use their size and strength to control the game. Wentworth will make a few runs during the game to cut the lead to single digits a few times, but Fisher will get a lead and hide the rest of the way.

On Saturday...it kills me to say it but I will take U of R by 8. I think it is one of those games where Fisher will keep the game within a few points for most of the game, but the outcome will be clear with about 10 minutes left. Baltz and Newman are basically different players from when Rochester saw them last. But Fisher has a way of shooting poorly in tournament games.

Would love to see Fisher pull it out obviously. I do think that it is possible for the cardinals. If U of R wins, watch out, they could make a real serious run. To the Final Four???
Should be a great weekend of basketball. Here is something to discuss...Where does everybody think the regional games will be if Fisher wins? if U of R wins? Perhaps in Rochester if the lower seed (U of R) wins, but not if the higher seed (Fisher) wins. Could be interesting?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 01, 2007, 09:57:36 PM
I think it's probably going to be at Wooster...but I think part of it also depends if there are two NY teams and two Ohio teams.....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 01, 2007, 11:42:39 PM
yeah im almost with ya sjfcards, its going to be interesting on how the young guardplay for fisher will turn out against uofr.  Either way should be a great game.  UofR is still a year away from making a run at the national championship tho, so either way the winner of the game will most likely win the sweet 16 but lose in the elite 8 to whoever comes out on the other side unless wooster goes down. But i do think the plattsburgh vs UofR game will be closer then you predicted.  Plattsburgh has some talent and good athletes, but UofR will win do to better D and better coaching. However it will be close.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 02, 2007, 12:08:58 AM
from what players have heard if fisher and wooster wins its in wooster but if fisher wins and wooster loses its at fisher...but it looks like its lake eries bracket?
lets pray for either fisher or lake erie (closer than wooster)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 02, 2007, 12:35:01 AM
Lake Erie will probably not get it...Pat C says that it will most likely be at one of the Rochester schools...would be great to see Fisher host it...after being in amherst last year Fisher can definatly host...no if ands or buts about it...fisher has a better parking situation then Amherst and I think that when you get down to it the seating is basically the same for both amherst and fisher gyms
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 12:49:01 AM
Hey guys, we're collecting previews for each team in the tourney on one of the multiregional boards. If I get them by Friday I may even be able to stick them in one document for people to peruse. A fun little tourney resource of sorts. Would someone here be willing to do one for St John Fisher? Thanks much!

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5147.0
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 02, 2007, 07:45:56 AM
wow- an 8 star general graces our presence on the E8 board!
Welcome!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 02, 2007, 08:08:14 AM
Quote from: Cadillac on March 01, 2007, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: John McGraw on March 01, 2007, 11:40:04 AM
For our new posters and relatives of St. John Fisher players.

It's spelled Plattsburgh, with an "h," not Plattsburg.

Plattsburgh?  I thought we were talking about Prattsburg.

They're a lock to go to Glens Falls.

Actually, Prattsburgh Central School is spelled with an H at the end. And they lost in the sectional semis the other night, so they're not going to Glens Falls.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 02, 2007, 09:54:35 AM
god- lets just get to the games already!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 02, 2007, 10:02:42 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 12:49:01 AM
Hey guys, we're collecting previews for each team in the tourney on one of the multiregional boards. If I get them by Friday I may even be able to stick them in one document for people to peruse. A fun little tourney resource of sorts. Would someone here be willing to do one for St John Fisher? Thanks much!

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5147.0

I'm sure  there are plenty in here that would love to write that. How objective the write-up is could be another story though.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 02, 2007, 10:13:17 AM
Quote from: tigerfan2 on March 02, 2007, 10:02:42 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 12:49:01 AM
Hey guys, we're collecting previews for each team in the tourney on one of the multiregional boards. If I get them by Friday I may even be able to stick them in one document for people to peruse. A fun little tourney resource of sorts. Would someone here be willing to do one for St John Fisher? Thanks much!

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5147.0

I'm sure  there are plenty in here that would love to write that. How objective the write-up is could be another story though.

If they are getting capsules from this forum they are probably not looking for objectivity.  I recently read a story about a new feature on English Soccer Broadcasts.  Apparently, you can get the normal broadcast, with a neutral play-by-play and color man.  Or, you can watch a simulcast on a separate station that is broadcast by one fan from each team.  They are in the booth together and bash each other and the oppossing team.  I bet it makes great TV.  The E8 needs a broadcast strategy like this.  I'd tune in.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 10:17:52 AM
We actually are looking for as much objectivity as possible... and have gotten previews from a few people who double as staff writers for D3hoops.com which is just way too cool... but we'd rather have a preview than no preview at all. ;)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 02, 2007, 11:16:57 AM
I wrote one and thought that it was pretty objective
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 02, 2007, 11:19:25 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 11:26:13 AM
I know, thank you! Was not saying that you failed to be objective, by any means! :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 02, 2007, 12:24:21 PM
SJF over Wentworth in a close one
UR over Plattsburgh in a never-really-close one
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 02, 2007, 12:44:36 PM
I think Plattsburg is going to surprise some people and give UofR a run for their money.  I think they will give fisher a ton of problems as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 02, 2007, 12:55:47 PM
fish dyn-
as said before----no h in Plattsburg......

oh -sure now you change it.....
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 02, 2007, 02:36:12 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 02, 2007, 12:44:36 PM
I think Plattsburg is going to surprise some people and give UofR a run for their money.  I think they will give fisher a ton of problems as well.

Plattsburgh is more athletic than UR, but UR is battle-tested and well-coached. I do think it will be a tight one. UR by 5 is my guess.

Fisher by 19. I don't see this one being close after the first ten minutes. I have a feeling the Cards are going to blitz them from the opening tip. From the sounds of it on the CCC board, everyone is surprised that Wentworth even won the conference tourney. Their lack of size will hurt them against SJF as you don't want to give Fisher's shooters second and third opportunities. I think this one will be rout city to the point where Fisher's 18th-22nd men should see some action late in the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 02, 2007, 05:21:47 PM
Quote from: rjcarter8 on March 02, 2007, 08:08:14 AM
Quote from: Cadillac on March 01, 2007, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: John McGraw on March 01, 2007, 11:40:04 AM
For our new posters and relatives of St. John Fisher players.

It's spelled Plattsburgh, with an "h," not Plattsburg.

Plattsburgh?  I thought we were talking about Prattsburg.

They're a lock to go to Glens Falls.

Actually, Prattsburgh Central School is spelled with an H at the end. And they lost in the sectional semis the other night, so they're not going to Glens Falls.

just to set things straight its Plattsurgh and Prattsburg
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 02, 2007, 07:26:26 PM
The village is Prattsburgh; the highway exit reads Prattsburg.  Identity crisis.

Plattsburgh's down 6 with 2:20 to go.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 02, 2007, 07:40:59 PM
Plattsburgh just hit a 3 at the buzzer to win 61-60.  :o
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 02, 2007, 07:42:00 PM
Told ya !! Anyway nice win for the cardinals! 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2007, 08:22:15 PM
SUNYAC player of the year Anthony Williams hits a 40 footer at the buzzer to give the Plattsburgh State Cardinals a 61-60 comeback win against Univ. of Rochester.
Cards down by 17 with 10 min. to go, stepped up the defensive pressure and go on an 11-0 run to get within 6. Then go down by 10 with 5 min left. UofR misses some key free throws allowing Cards to close within 2 setting the stage for Williams' heroics.
Williams finished with 28 points with 3 3s and a perfect 7 for 7 from the foul line
Travis Gorham had 14 pts and 13 rebounds

Jon Onyiriuka led UofR with 15 pts, Uche Ndubizu had 11 and Rob Dominiak had 11
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 02, 2007, 08:58:45 PM
SJF 51 - 34 at half.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 02, 2007, 09:13:31 PM
Quote from: pg04 on March 02, 2007, 07:42:00 PM
Told ya !! Anyway nice win for the cardinals! 

PG, I like most of your posts, but don't be "that guy." I expect more from ya. A 40-footer at the buzzer. Some luck in that, wouldn't you say? Unless he's Gilbert Arenas.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 02, 2007, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on March 02, 2007, 09:13:31 PM
Quote from: pg04 on March 02, 2007, 07:42:00 PM
Told ya !! Anyway nice win for the cardinals! 

PG, I like most of your posts, but don't be "that guy." I expect more from ya. A 40-footer at the buzzer. Some luck in that, wouldn't you say? Unless he's Gilbert Arenas.

Ok Ok you're right, but They did come back from 17 down with 10 minutes to go.  That's very impressive heart and  reserve.

Fisher's going to have a fight on their hands...even if they are in their own place where they "never lose"
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 02, 2007, 09:18:40 PM
Bad day to be a Bomber. The women blow a double-digit second half lead and lose and the men fall to top-seeded Vassar in the ECAC's. Sean Burton with 21 pts and 10 assists and Jeff Bostic with 15 pts and 16 rebs. I really hope those two can get a better supporting cast next season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 02, 2007, 09:52:29 PM
Fisher 98 - 71 final.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2007, 10:13:22 PM
Looks like I got my wish. The Cardinals of Plattsburgh State against the Cardinals of St. John Fisher. Unfortunately for Plattsburgh, Fisher not only gets home court advantage but their starting five got to rest up for most of the 2nd half while State had to work their tails off coming back from a 17 pt 2nd half deficit. I still like the SUNYAC champs chances though.

Speaking of the SUNYAC

Plattsburgh St. 61-60 over UofR

Brockport St. 74-66 over NESCAC champion Williams

Oswego St. 74-63 over RIT in the ECAC's

SUNYIT 96-84 over Clarkson in the ECAC's

Not bad for a "weak" conference.    
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on March 02, 2007, 10:35:54 PM
Magic- Nothing against the SUNYAC but the only win there that is an upset is the 30 ft buzzer beater by Williams that gave Platts the win over UR.  The rest were to be suspected since they were all on home courts against teams that should be and were beaten.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2007, 10:46:02 PM
b4

Brockport played up at St. Lawrence, not at home. I didn't know where the ECAC's were played. Just glad to see the SUNYAC teams win. But I understand your point.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on March 02, 2007, 11:01:14 PM
Magic- If Oswego smacks down Vassar at Vassar come back on here and rub my nose in it.  It could well happen, should be a good game.                   PS I think B-port @ SLU will be another opportunity at league bragging rights!! (and I don't know the outcome there either) on a neutral site I'd go with b-port- up there I'm not as sure.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 02, 2007, 11:01:41 PM
where is SUNYIT?

and yes i was wrong... prattsburgh does have an h...my map program even has it wrong... and cadillac is correct the highway sign is prattburg? conspiracy? haha who knows
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on March 02, 2007, 11:03:39 PM
SUNY IT is in Utica.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 02, 2007, 11:20:07 PM
wow I missed quite the day in NCAA basketball, Congrats to both sets of cardinals....should be a good game, hopefully fisher can pay them back for two years ago
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 02, 2007, 11:57:43 PM
Just back from the games at Fisher. A great night of basketball.

Fisher was just way way way too much for Wentworth. My question is how did Wentworth get to 17 wins...they would struggle to make the E8 tournament. They looked bad against a tough defense...they looked like they had never seen a defense before. Good win for Fisher taking care of business.

Plattsburgh...congratulations on a great win. Unreal..most teams would have quit down 18 half way through the 2nd half, the crowd was very pro U of R. U of R just played their way out of a win. They made bad decisions, bad shots, and missed free throws down the stretch. U of R was clearly the better team, but Plattsburgh impressed me with how poised they were.

Should be a great game tomorrow. Plattsburgh has a good record, and is better than I thought they were. I think Fisher has a good chance tomorrow, and if they shoot the way they did tonight Plattsburgh does not have much of a chance. Now having said that I do not see Fisher getting nearly as many open looks against a good Plattsburgh team.

I will take Fisher by 8 tomorrow...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 03, 2007, 12:14:56 AM
Also...

This bracket kind of looks like a tourny for the best team in NY...Fisher, Plattsburgh, St Lawrence, Brockport...and U of R who lost to a NY team tonight...

I think it might be nice to see who earns the title "best team in NY" on the court..
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 03, 2007, 12:49:03 AM
Quote from: b4the3isme on March 02, 2007, 10:35:54 PM
Magic- Nothing against the SUNYAC but the only win there that is an upset is the 30 ft buzzer beater by Williams that gave Platts the win over UR.  The rest were to be suspected since they were all on home courts against teams that should be and were beaten.

I don't understand all the disrespect...Isn't there something to be said of coming back from 17 down with 10 minutes left for Plattsburgh? 

And Brockport's win over Williams 6 hours away from home in Canton at SLU against a team that won a National Powerhouse Conference was not necessarily suspected either. 

Fisher better not get too confident because they seem to have some sort of thought of invincibility at home because Plattsburgh can beat them. 

That being said I think we see a Brockport-Fisher Sweet 16 matchup. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DirkDiggler on March 03, 2007, 01:59:57 AM
Superman, you mean Potsdam right?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 03, 2007, 08:39:33 AM
yes I mean potsdam....but when you get two schools in the middle of no where you get confused
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 03, 2007, 10:57:30 AM
Great win for Plattsburgh, fighting back from 19 down was impressive.  I knew the game was going to be close.

Fisher is playing its best basketball by far at the perfect time, I have never seen a team shoot the ball as well as they did tonight, i think they were like 9-10 from 3 the first few minutes of the game.  When chris baltz 26 pts in less then 20 minutes, and mueller are shooting like that, they are a legit contender to get out of this region.  I'm sorry but if they are hosting the only team that can beat them if they are shooting this well is Wooster.  I am still in awe on how well they played, it was un real.  Don't get me wrong Wentworth was not very good, Fishers second squad would have won, but shooting is shooting, they were on fire. 

fisher by 7-10 over Plattsburgh.

Bport 5-10 over st. lawrence
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 03, 2007, 11:04:51 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 03, 2007, 10:57:30 AM
Great win for Plattsburgh, fighting back from 19 down was impressive.  I knew the game was going to be close.

Fisher is playing its best basketball by far at the perfect time, I have never seen a team shoot the ball as well as they did tonight, i think they were like 9-10 from 3 the first few minutes of the game.  When chris baltz 26 pts in less then 20 minutes, and mueller are shooting like that, they are a legit contender to get out of this region.  I'm sorry but if they are hosting the only team that can beat them if they are shooting this well is Wooster.  I am still in awe on how well they played, it was un real.  Don't get me wrong Wentworth was not very good, Fishers second squad would have won, but shooting is shooting, they were on fire. 

fisher by 7-10 over Plattsburgh.

Bport 5-10 over st. lawrence

I 100% agree...they did get a lot of wide open looks and easy layups because Wentworth did not know how to cover them, but they also hit some contested jumpers. Mueller can hit from 10 feet behind the arc, and Baltz was lights out from all over the floor.
Fisher is definatley starting to play their best basketball this season. With Baltz and Mueller shooting threes and the inside game of McSweeny and Beigle they are tough to beat. Can they go to the Final 4? well if they host the regional they have a chance (because Wooster will probably be out at that point). Without Wooster in the bracket I do not see a team they can't beat. Should be fun.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 03, 2007, 11:34:47 AM
I'm not sure but I think if brockport and Fisher win you are going to be hard pressed to move two rochester teams to Ohio...but who knows...we don't know what the hell the NCAA thinks or smokes at certain times...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 03, 2007, 12:16:09 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 03, 2007, 11:34:47 AM
I'm not sure but I think if brockport and Fisher win you are going to be hard pressed to move two rochester teams to Ohio...but who knows...we don't know what the hell the NCAA thinks or smokes at certain times...

Do you mean like the time when the NCAA didn't move two Rochester teams (UR, Fisher) and Potsdam outside the state of NY and into Amherst's gym?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: supernvstr on March 03, 2007, 12:27:44 PM
For all of you St. John Fisher fans out there who cannot make it to the game tonight...

You can hear Fisher vs. Plattsburgh LIVE tonight at 7pm...

Go to http://athletics.sjfc.edu/ 
Click on LISTEN LIVE
then navigate to CLICK HERE TO CONTINUE under audio webcast and you should be all set

If that does not work...
Go to www.teamline.cc
type in St. John Fisher
navigate to Men's Basketball

Hope you can tune in!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on March 03, 2007, 04:11:29 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 03, 2007, 11:34:47 AM
I'm not sure but I think if brockport and Fisher win you are going to be hard pressed to move two rochester teams to Ohio...but who knows...we don't know what the hell the NCAA thinks or smokes at certain times...

You will of course remember that in '04-05, Sweet 16 had undefeated Fisher, eventual runner-up Rochester, and defending SUNYAC champ Potsdam, who had won regular season & tournament, and where did they get sent - Amherst.

With Wooster's 3000+ attendance, NCAA won't care if they send two Rochester teams to Wooster.

Amherst was a pseudo ghost town - students on break, raging snowstorm on Friday night, and they still hosted, despite the fact that both U of R and Potsdam have much nicer & larger gyms.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 03, 2007, 04:15:40 PM
any one have predictions for fisher/plattsburgh and st lawrence/brockport
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 03, 2007, 04:35:56 PM
yes i agree that the ncaa is definiatley smoking something more than half of the time. Driving to amherst was a little rediculous for 3 ny teams. If wooster is still in it i'm sure if there were 15 ny teams we'd be making a trip.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: thebear on March 03, 2007, 06:50:47 PM
Brockport beat SLU by 30 at Brockport in January.  Brockport has won 16 of it's last 17.

SLU can compete if they keep it close and use their home court advantage.  If they wilt under Brockport's pressure and transition, it could get ugly.  I suspect 'port will take this by 10, assuming the NCAA has assigned a decent set of zebra's to work the game.

Plattsburgh was the only team to beat Brockport recently, 80-75 at 'port in the SUNYAC final.  A. Williams should be a D-III All American, he's a D-I xfer (Morgan State) and is clearly the class of the SUNYAC.  They are well coached, and have athletes that will give Fisher fits.  Williams can take over a half-court game against anybody.
'burgh comes in winning 16 of 18.  Nothing like peaking at the right time.  If Fisher gets behind, they will be in trouble, just like what happened against Potsdam in '05.  'burgh is a tough physical team, and plays hard every pass, every shot both ends.  I think 'burgh will win by 5.

If Plattsburgh & Brockport get in, I suspect the regional would be at Brockport, because Plattsburgh - Wooster is 675 miles, & we know how the NCAA hates to fly Eastern teams.



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 03, 2007, 08:32:46 PM
Final:

Brockport 74
St. Lawrence 49
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 03, 2007, 08:36:38 PM
wow, that's a low-scoring game for Brockport.  They're really good to crush SLU by 25 up there in should-be-Canada.

89-83 Fisher with 1:30 to go.  Anthony Williams has 30 for P'Burgh; SJF is 34-55 from the floor.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 03, 2007, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 03, 2007, 08:36:38 PM
wow, that's a low-scoring game for Brockport.  They're really good to crush SLU by 25 up there in should-be-Canada.

89-83 Fisher with 1:30 to go.  Anthony Williams has 30 for P'Burgh; SJF is 34-55 from the floor.

Looks like the Cardinals will win this game? Hehehe...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 03, 2007, 08:41:54 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 03, 2007, 08:36:38 PM
wow, that's a low-scoring game for Brockport.  They're really good to crush SLU by 25 up there in should-be-Canada.

89-83 Fisher with 1:30 to go.  Anthony Williams has 30 for P'Burgh; SJF is 34-55 from the floor.

Only had 31 points in 1st half, came back to senses in 2nd with 43.  Brockport certainly has the saints number this year.  The best two teams in this 4 team pod met yesterday I think...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 03, 2007, 08:45:39 PM
FINAL SCORE:

St. John Fisher 95, Plattsburgh 87, Williams as noted with 30 for P'Burgh; Dan Mueller leading scorer for SJF with 25 points.  Brockport vs. Fisher in the Sweet 16 should be a classic.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 03, 2007, 08:50:54 PM
Good win for Fisher...Plattsburgh was as advertised...pretty tough and never quit.

I only saw the score of the b-port game...wow...should be a great one in Fisher/Bport 3...

Hope the regional is somewhere close to home.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 03, 2007, 08:59:44 PM
Well, John Carroll beat Lake Erie 79-77 so the "Top seed" in this bracket has gone down.  I am thinking that Fisher will be the host (??)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 03, 2007, 09:23:49 PM
Quote from: pg04 on March 03, 2007, 08:59:44 PM
Well, John Carroll beat Lake Erie 79-77 so the "Top seed" in this bracket has gone down.  I am thinking that Fisher will be the host (??)

Doubt it. It sounds like now you'll have to go to Ohio to play JCU. ::)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: blindwatchmaker on March 03, 2007, 10:11:45 PM
Had to go digging a bit- is SJF's gym 1200 capacity?  How might that impact hosting vs JCU at 2448 and Wooster at 3400? 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 03, 2007, 10:26:08 PM
i think fishers gym is between 1000-1200 closer to 1000. brockport has 2000 and john carroll has 2448.

according to google maps

brockport is 243 miles from john carroll and 306 from wooster.
fisher is 254 from john carroll and 320 from wooster.

essentially fisher and brockport are the same distance with brockport having a slightly bigger gym and wooster seems to be out of contention of hosting even with there 3400 seating.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: blindwatchmaker on March 03, 2007, 10:29:43 PM
KSC218-

So would you give the nod to Brockport or JCU then?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 03, 2007, 10:46:58 PM
Well after watching Fisher Friday and Saturday night, they shot the ball amazingly. If they played like this weekend, they will make it to the Final Four. Sectional sites come out tomorrow, but I'm guessing it will be at Wooster. I hope Fisher can keep up their hot shooting despite not playing at home. Now, with Fisher's student's still on spring break, will their be some busses that will drive to Ohio? I'm not a Fisher student and I was told last time that Fisher students come first. Everybody, be prepared, it will be at Wooster next Friday night. If it isn't I would be shocked!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 03, 2007, 10:53:04 PM
i really dont know i would eliminate fisher because its definitely longer than 300 miles (which i beleive is the driving cut off point but i forget). I looked up the campus street addresses and brockport is exactly 300 miles from wooster and fisher is 259 miles to john carroll. technically if you rank the seeds dI style john carroll is a higher seed than brockport so maybe they get the edge?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 03, 2007, 10:58:25 PM
You have two Ohio teams and two NY  teams and Wooster has the better record of the three other teams. I still think it will be at Wooster.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: blindwatchmaker on March 03, 2007, 11:00:41 PM
Check out the post from David C. over in the NCAC page.  He gives a good run of the  hosting criteria.

Re: NCAC
« Reply #6043 on: Today at 10:54:15 pm »   by DC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: NCAA Handbook, page 7
Site Selection
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility.
In addition, the men's basketball committee requires each host to videotape all contests at its site, with the intent to make available to each team a copy of the contest in which it participated. The committee also prefers sites that will not host conflicting events during the championship practice and competition. Sites will also be evaluated as to the availability of appropriate practice times for all competing teams. To host first-round, second-round or sectional contests, a regulation court as defined in 2007 NCAA Men's and Women's Basketball Rules and Interpretations must be used. To host sectional competition, arena seating for at least 1,000 spectators is required.

Everyone meets the minimum:
Fisher 1200 (thanks, blindwatchmaker)
Brockport 2000
JCU 2448
Wooster 3400

Factor one, quality of facility perhaps favors Wooster on size alone, but quality of "other necessary accomodations" might score higher in the cities (Rochester, Cleveland) than in little ol' Wooster.
Factor two, geographical location, I think clearly favors Fisher and Brockport.  Transportation costs are lower there than here in Ohio, but we have better weather!    As regards rotation of sites, Wooster hosted sectionals in 2003 and 2004, Brockport had one in 2002, and nobody else has hosted since 2001 or earlier (I only went back that far for purposes of this post), so if this is a factor at all it would work against the Scots.
Factor three, seeding, is either Fisher or Wooster; hard to guess.  But this is just factor three; the decision might not get this far.
Factor four, attendance history and revenue potential, has got to favor Wooster with its big gym and big crowds.  There's no question that there'd be more tickets sold here (by 2000+) than anywhere else.  But again the decision may be made before even thinking about this.

It will be very interesting to see what shakes out, but I'm still planning on visiting the Kodak City next weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 03, 2007, 11:04:47 PM
It would be great, if they played at a neutral site that was halfway between both Ohio and NY. I just want to watch Fisher close to home.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: wooscotsfan on March 03, 2007, 11:07:48 PM
Wooster has the larger facility (3,400) but it is not clear who has the higher seeding because the NCAA does not publicize their seeds in D3.

ksc218 - the NCAA driving cutoff point is actually 500 miles so any of the 4 teams in this sectional could host and the other 3 teams would all bus to the site.

John Carroll and Wooster are only ~60 minutes apart so if one of them is the host, the other Ohio team probably sleeps in their own bed and avoids lodging costs (same scenario if sectional is in the Rochester area).

Should be a great sectional next weekend!

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 03, 2007, 11:13:52 PM
wooscotsfan, it will. It will be a change of pace for us, we haven't played an Ohio team in ages. What's the scoop on Woosters' team? The two games we played in the NCAA Tourny, is we are a medium size team. We shot roughly 62% in both games. We have both an inside presence and on the perimeter. My opinion, we are a jump shot and perimeter team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: blindwatchmaker on March 03, 2007, 11:17:13 PM
Check out page 4 on the team profiles page under multi-regional topics.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 03, 2007, 11:25:46 PM
WOW, Wooster looks like an NCAA powerhouse team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: diehardfan on March 03, 2007, 11:48:41 PM
Quote from: bjgiants6 on March 03, 2007, 11:13:52 PM
wooscotsfan, it will. It will be a change of pace for us, we haven't played an Ohio team in ages. What's the scoop on Woosters' team? The two games we played in the NCAA Tourny, is we are a medium size team. We shot roughly 62% in both games. We have both an inside presence and on the perimeter. My opinion, we are a jump shot and perimeter team.
There is a downloadable preview of all the tourney teams created by posters at wheatonhoops.googlepages.com/ncaatourney (http://wheatonhoops.googlepages.com/ncaatourney) (well, except a couple that didn't submit, but all those teams are no longer in the tourney). It was fun to make, I hope it's useful to people! :)

The Wooster preview was created by none other than Wooster alum and HOFer David Collinge. :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 03, 2007, 11:51:10 PM
Fisher played a good game tonight and is playing as well as they have all season right now...I think a lot of who will make it out of the bracket will be where the game is played. Should be interesting.

I heard the locations are announced tomorrow...does anyone have any information on the time and whatnot...

I Fisher plays at home...and shoots the way they have the last two games they have a good chance I think...Wooster is a real good team and a real tough team for anyt team, but Fisher has to get through a real good Brockport team first...That one should be a real tough battle. I don't think B-port has seen Fisher playing like this yet...Baltz and Newman are both playing much better than they were even a month ago...Should be a great one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: wooscotsfan on March 03, 2007, 11:56:36 PM
bjgiants6 - Wooster is 27-3 having won both the NCAC regular season conference title and the NCAC tourney title to get the automatic NCAA bid.

Wooster plays an up tempo game as they average about 89 points per game.  The Scots shoot a lot of three pointers and they have made ~300 this season in 30 games (avg. 10 made three pointers/game).

Wooster has 4 players that can break you down and get a bucket:

James Cooper, very quick guard, who averages 18+ points per game

Tom Port, 6'5" shoots three pointers and posts in the lane,  16.5/game

Tim Vandervaart, very quick 6'6" post who averages 13.4/game

Brandon Johnson, 6'2" point guard who penetrates the lane 10.9/game

Wooster also has 4 other talented players in Evan Will, Andy Van Horn, Devin Fulk and Marty Bidwell.  The Scots run an 8 man rotation.

Wooster shoots 52% from the floor, 42% on three pointers and they outrebound their opponents by an average of 7 per game.

Wooster also plays tough defense so they have scored some convincing wins including a 26 point win over Translyvania in the first round and a 17 point win tonight over a 24-4 Centre squad.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 04, 2007, 12:23:33 AM
I think in the end...I would say that if they decide that fisher is the high seed it's at Brockport and if they decide that Wooster is the high seed then it's at John Carroll...and I'm saying at JC because your in clevland and it is easier for everyone...and brockport because of the gym size...though Fisher is DEFINATLY not smaller then Amherst, so size doesn't always matter
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 04, 2007, 12:25:14 AM
While it is definitely interesting to have Brockport vs. Fisher again, I think it would have been more interesting to have Fisher vs. JCU and Brockport vs. Wooster.  That would definitely have made the pairs a little more diverse.

And yes, Wooster is a national powerhouse.  They have been a top 5 team all season long, including a stint at number 1, and they are number 2 right now.  The only issue with them is that they have had bad luck in the playoffs. 

Trying to be unbiased, I would say the winner of the Wooster/JCU game will probably end up in the final 4... But you never know! 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 04, 2007, 01:07:00 AM
Quote from: blindwatchmaker on March 03, 2007, 11:00:41 PM
Check out the post from David C. over in the NCAC page.  He gives a good run of the  hosting criteria.

Re: NCAC
« Reply #6043 on: Today at 10:54:15 pm »   by DC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: NCAA Handbook, page 7
Site Selection
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility.
In addition, the men's basketball committee requires each host to videotape all contests at its site, with the intent to make available to each team a copy of the contest in which it participated. The committee also prefers sites that will not host conflicting events during the championship practice and competition. Sites will also be evaluated as to the availability of appropriate practice times for all competing teams. To host first-round, second-round or sectional contests, a regulation court as defined in 2007 NCAA Men's and Women's Basketball Rules and Interpretations must be used. To host sectional competition, arena seating for at least 1,000 spectators is required.



I think the selection rules just posted has been misinterpreted in terms of size of gym mattering. In the last criteria for hosting it said a gym of at least 1000 was required, therefore i think quality of gym and size of gym are not the same. Either way i don't think size would be the most important factor considering theres only going to be two teams with a good amount of fans no matter the location. quality of facilities in my opinion means how are the locker rooms, parking lots etc.

weather for the weekend is 40-50 percent chance of snow showers everywhere. so thats not a factor

seeding is still mysterious

attendance history is good for fisher at least, full gym even on spring break against plattsburgh bringing literary 10 fans. and every school is on spring break with fisher and john carroll ending spring break and brockport and wooster just starting spring break.

It looks to me as the only relevant factors will be seeding first then hosting rotation

Quote from: blindwatchmaker on March 03, 2007, 11:00:41 PM

Factor two, geographical location, I think clearly favors Fisher and Brockport.  Transportation costs are lower there than here in Ohio, but we have better weather!    As regards rotation of sites, Wooster hosted sectionals in 2003 and 2004, Brockport had one in 2002, and nobody else has hosted since 2001 or earlier (I only went back that far for purposes of this post), so if this is a factor at all it would work against the Scots.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 04, 2007, 01:59:07 AM
sorry for the double post but i couldn't figure out how to edit my post.

thanks to pat coleman we have our closest insight into the seeds through quality of wins index

Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2007, 08:36:38 PM
ugh -- well, without that UWEC/Wart change:


15   10.423   2   St. John Fisher   0.808 (21-5)   22-5
20   10.296   3   Brockport State   0.815 (22-5)   23-5
28   10.091   2   Wooster   0.909 (20-2)   25-3
31   10.040   3   John Carroll   0.720 (18-7)   19-9

Things seem to now shape up for a rochester hosting bid.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 04, 2007, 03:32:09 AM
Fisher is playing great basketball right now, they handled plattsburgh tonight.  However plattsburgh is a tough team that would not give up, they will be very tough to beat next year, as the only lose 2 guys.  As far as hosting the sweet 16, it should be fisher or wooster, anything else what be a travesty.  size does not matter as fishers 28-0 team had to travel to amherst's small gym.  I really think fisher should get to host as they were the 1 seed in the east, and the 1 seed in the great lakes lost tonight.  If fisher hosts they will have a legit chance to make it to the final 4.  They will have to play a very good bport team, that i think they will win by 4+ then a really talented Wooster team, who knows.   Wooster may be better, but if Fisher gets the home court, its going to be a great game.  If baltz, mueller, and newman continue to play the way they are, fisher will be in the final 4 or atleast lose to a very good wooster team.  Bport is talented but not as good as fisher when they are playing to their potential.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cards7580 on March 04, 2007, 04:44:59 AM
Brockport should host simply because they can handle more people, and run a better show.   Having been to three of the four gyms and witnessing what goes on, Brockport has much more on the ball.    The clock/scoreboard operation at Fisher reminded me of High School days.  Numerous scores being put up for the wrong team on Friday nght.  Time being started early at least three times on Friday and Saturday.   35 second clock problems.   Fisher's idea of food was vending machines in the small lobby.   My high school does a better job at putting on a show for the regular season,
and has a larger facility. 

And to tell you the truth, the Fisher faitful (at least the ones near me on Saturday) sure dont deserve to be 'hosts'
for tournament games.  While U of R fans have that "superior" attitude to everyone else ( I guest because they think being able to PAY for that school entitles them to be obnoxious), the old-amuni/fans behind me seemed to be a bunch of closet racists.  Constantly 'crying' about not getting their normal amount of "homer" calls.  Making slurs about player skin color, or amount of brains.  Saying a black person looks like a monkey isn't my idea of sophistication. One would expect more tolerance from a Catholic based school and from such a resepect intitution of higher learning.    And they didn't even know New York State geography well enough to know where Plattsburgh was located.   Some Fisher fans need to learn that not everyone comes from money, not everyone can be a choir boy, and not every referee is perfect.  The saturday game had equally distributed bad and inconsistent calls.   
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 06:08:15 AM
after looking around online i've come to the conclusion that based on distance and facilities that JC should be the host school. As a fan of the fisher club and realizing that they may deserve it it makes more sense to have it at the school with more seating and either comparable or better facilities. http://www.jcu.edu/news/021804_mens_bb.asp
Nice weights facility and locker rooms.
parking doesn't appear to be a problem at JC at all either like it is currently at fisher unless people could use the Park and Ride lot by the highway which is a rather long hike.
http://www.jcu.edu/images/news/icg_map.jpg

someone before mentioned a neutral site? gannon university or penn state erie the behrend college... is that such a bad idea? Both gymnasiums hold over 2000 spectators. When do you see a DI team play on a home court in the ncaas? maybe they should revise their scheduling for the tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 06:10:49 AM
so i'm not the only one noticing these things in the stand... thats comforting!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 06:11:05 AM
after looking around online i've come to the conclusion that based on distance and facilities that JC should be the host school. As a fan of the fisher club and realizing that they may deserve it it makes more sense to have it at the school with more seating and either comparable or better facilities. http://www.jcu.edu/news/021804_mens_bb.asp
Nice weights facility and locker rooms.
parking doesn't appear to be a problem at JC at all either like it is currently at fisher unless people could use the Park and Ride lot by the highway which is a rather long hike.
http://www.jcu.edu/images/news/icg_map.jpg

someone before mentioned a neutral site? gannon university or penn state erie the behrend college... is that such a bad idea? Both gymnasiums hold over 2000 spectators. When do you see a DI team play on a home court in the ncaas? maybe they should revise their scheduling for the tourney.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 06:23:08 AM
also about JC they have pulled in over 1000 fans over 6 times this season at their home facility the DeCarlo Center.   Through 11 home games they averaged about 1230 people.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 06:32:19 AM
as far as fishers attendance... cough cough...

averaged 580 (generous) through 14 games including one sold out naz game (1000 max capacity) and 2 empire 8 tourney games and 2 NCAA games.

JC is averaging 100 more than double fishers turnout.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 06:50:23 AM
wooster will certainly not disapoint if they are looking for revenue

their attendance average for NEUTRAL games was 740 through 7 games

for woosters home games they averaged 2015 people. that is rediculous and thats with one game only being 275 over holliday break.
The high for the gym was 3776... the website says max seating capacity is 3400... i love standing room only environments... this gym could get crazy. nothing lik people sitting in the stairs and filling up the doorways.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Bill Gorman on March 04, 2007, 10:08:01 AM
As an adminsitrator from a school that played at Fisher Friday night (and I'm not hiding behind any alias), I want to congratulate St. John Fisher on picking up the two W's this past weekend.  While (obviously) myself and the rest of the Wentworth program were disappointed in Friday's outcome, Wentworth ran into a very hot shooting team, peaking at the right time, and the rest they say is history.  I was in the hallway behind where the Fisher players were standing and didn't see the Plattsburgh shot go in, just the reaction from the SJF players.

I also want to "tip my cap" to everyone at Fisher for putting on a great event.  None of our players had ever been in this situation and everything was first class and made the experience that much more enjoyable for the student-athletes, as well as their parents who made the trek.

Good luck as you move on!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 04, 2007, 10:19:34 AM
Quote from: Bill Gorman on March 04, 2007, 10:08:01 AM
As an adminsitrator from a school that played at Fisher Friday night (and I'm not hiding behind any alias), I want to congratulate St. John Fisher on picking up the two W's this past weekend.  While (obviously) myself and the rest of the Wentworth program were disappointed in Friday's outcome, Wentworth ran into a very hot shooting team, peaking at the right time, and the rest they say is history.  I was in the hallway behind where the Fisher players were standing and didn't see the Plattsburgh shot go in, just the reaction from the SJF players.

I also want to "tip my cap" to everyone at Fisher for putting on a great event.  None of our players had ever been in this situation and everything was first class and made the experience that much more enjoyable for the student-athletes, as well as their parents who made the trek.

Good luck as you move on!

Nice of you to say something...I am gald you had a nice experience...

on to who should host the regional...Travel wise it does not make much sense to move two Rochester teams out of the area, however, I think everything else pretty much favors John Carrol...It is kind of a mid way point between Wooster and Rochester. They have attendance and the facilities. And, They have the gym size to make the NCAA happy. I would love to see Fisher get to host a regional, but the realist in me just says it will not happen.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 04, 2007, 10:43:46 AM
As much as we look into it, and breakout revenue, gym size, etc.  Think about the amherst location, gym is small and many teams were far away, so i think/hope they will give it to the top seed remaining - Fisher.  If they don't host, they need to seriously think about doing something about the gym and make it bigger.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 04, 2007, 11:25:48 AM
Cards 7580 sounds like some sour grapes to me...My guess is the usual scoreboard people were on vacation and therefore they needed to find anyone who could do it.  Mr. Gorman it was very nice of you to come on...and on behalf of all fans we sure hope to see you guys in the NCAA's Again
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 04, 2007, 11:41:20 AM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 06:32:19 AM
as far as fishers attendance... cough cough...

averaged 580 (generous) through 14 games including one sold out naz game (1000 max capacity) and 2 empire 8 tourney games and 2 NCAA games.

JC is averaging 100 more than double fishers turnout.

were you even at the game? fisher gave fisher students and player parents 600 tickets and gave naz the rest and the gym was overloaded on the fisher size and naz had a few empty seats

Quote from: Superman57 on March 04, 2007, 11:25:48 AM
Cards 7580 sounds like some sour grapes to me...My guess is the usual scoreboard people were on vacation and therefore they needed to find anyone who could do it.  Mr. Gorman it was very nice of you to come on...and on behalf of all fans we sure hope to see you guys in the NCAA's Again

I agree superman, all year I only saw 1 or 2 scoreboard problems, but some real food would be nice at games
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 04, 2007, 12:01:10 PM
keystonelight- you are an idiot cough cough.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 12:37:54 PM
i've been at every home game this year but 2 and 6 away games so yes i was at the game "idiot"
and i'm just comparing fan turnout at each venue. and thats why i said that it included one SOLD OUT GAME so thanks for letting me know that the fisher side was overcrowded...i was sitting on it... i know...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 12:41:21 PM
and let me guess fisheralum91...you really graduated in 92 but you chose 91 because it rhymed.

I was trying to give some good perspective as to what venues will turn out the most fans. You are so shoved up fishers ass you wouldn't care if every other team had to travel 500 miles and there were only enough seating for the team and yourself.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 12:42:37 PM
and by the way you're right...the game wasn't sold out... i had AN EXTRA ticket... should have sold it to your wife.  so in that sense i am an idiot... i could have made some money.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 04, 2007, 12:51:54 PM
In the sense of the way the seeds have been handed out, I would say Fisher would host. However the best team of the 4 is probably Wooster and shouldn't the best team host?

Although if JCU has the best facilities will it be them? However, if the hosting was to be done in the Rochester area, Brockport does have the bigger facilities. 

You can pretty much make an argument for any of the 4 teams.  It's just silly we have to argue about it at all..there should just be seedings on the brackets and that is that, and that would make the decision final.  The best team should host.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 04, 2007, 01:01:41 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 04, 2007, 03:32:09 AM
Fisher is playing great basketball right now, they handled plattsburgh tonight.  However plattsburgh is a tough team that would not give up, they will be very tough to beat next year, as the only lose 2 guys.  As far as hosting the sweet 16, it should be fisher or wooster, anything else what be a travesty.  size does not matter as fishers 28-0 team had to travel to amherst's small gym.  I really think fisher should get to host as they were the 1 seed in the east, and the 1 seed in the great lakes lost tonight.  If fisher hosts they will have a legit chance to make it to the final 4.  They will have to play a very good bport team, that i think they will win by 4+ then a really talented Wooster team, who knows.   Wooster may be better, but if Fisher gets the home court, its going to be a great game.  If baltz, mueller, and newman continue to play the way they are, fisher will be in the final 4 or atleast lose to a very good wooster team.  Bport is talented but not as good as fisher when they are playing to their potential.

You are the runaway winner for "Irrational Poster of the Year," FD. A "travesty" if Brockport hosts the tournament? Or are you just bitter that you'd have to play them on their home court? What about it would make it a travesty? The fact that they have a bigger gym than Fisher? The fact that they are more used to running huge events than Fisher (always have HS Sectionals there)? The fact that Brockport has a higher QOWI than Fisher? The fact that Brockport has won 16 of their last 17 games?

Yeah, a real travesty that would be if Brockport was allowed to host over Fisher. What a joke you are.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 04, 2007, 01:06:00 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on March 04, 2007, 01:01:41 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 04, 2007, 03:32:09 AM
Fisher is playing great basketball right now, they handled plattsburgh tonight.  However plattsburgh is a tough team that would not give up, they will be very tough to beat next year, as the only lose 2 guys. As far as hosting the sweet 16, it should be fisher or wooster, anything else what be a travesty.  size does not matter as fishers 28-0 team had to travel to amherst's small gym.  I really think fisher should get to host as they were the 1 seed in the east, and the 1 seed in the great lakes lost tonight.  If fisher hosts they will have a legit chance to make it to the final 4.  They will have to play a very good bport team, that i think they will win by 4+ then a really talented Wooster team, who knows.   Wooster may be better, but if Fisher gets the home court, its going to be a great game.  If baltz, mueller, and newman continue to play the way they are, fisher will be in the final 4 or atleast lose to a very good wooster team.  Bport is talented but not as good as fisher when they are playing to their potential.

You are the runaway winner for "Irrational Poster of the Year," FD. A "travesty" if Brockport hosts the tournament? Or are you just bitter that you'd have to play them on their home court? What about it would make it a travesty? The fact that they have a bigger gym than Fisher? The fact that they are more used to running huge events than Fisher (always have HS Sectionals there)? The fact that Brockport has a higher QOWI than Fisher? The fact that Brockport has won 16 of their last 17 games?

Yeah, a real travesty that would be if Brockport was allowed to host over Fisher. What a joke you are.

I second the nomination of that award!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 04, 2007, 01:10:49 PM
I honestly can't say i know much about wooster except they have lost three games and are 28th in quality of wins index(go bombers where did you get your qowi info? I saw pat colemans post and it said fisher was higher). Even though qowi isn't strength of schedule it does show they beat lesser teams than fisher and brockport. I don't think we can automatically look at wins and loses and call one the better team. I wish i could remember the site i saw posted around here somewhere that listed the rpi rankings for each diii team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: wooscotsfan on March 04, 2007, 01:13:48 PM
Both the Wooster and St. John Fisher websites are now showing the Cardinals as the host for the Sectional.

Here is the link: http://athletics.sjfc.edu/
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 04, 2007, 01:17:00 PM
well that is huge, and would have to say that should make it very interesting now...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 04, 2007, 01:20:44 PM
Quote from: ksc218 on March 04, 2007, 01:10:49 PM
I honestly can't say i know much about wooster except they have lost three games and are 28th in quality of wins index(go bombers where did you get your qowi info? I saw pat colemans post and it said fisher was higher). Even though qowi isn't strength of schedule it does show they beat lesser teams than fisher and brockport. I don't think we can automatically look at wins and loses and call one the better team. I wish i could remember the site i saw posted around here somewhere that listed the rpi rankings for each diii team.

Actually that doesn't mean that Wooster beat lesser teams....It means they beat teams with worse records.    That's the flaw with the entire way the selections are made. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 04, 2007, 01:21:51 PM
pg you should be happy, port is playing close to home, it certainly beats playing in Ohio...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 04, 2007, 01:23:50 PM
I think 'Port would rather play Fisher in Ohio than playing them in that little bandbox of hell. I really hope the whining coming from Pittsford over the last two years had nothing to do with this decision. I'm still going to root for Fisher because they're in Ithaca's conference but I really can't take anymore of FD's irrational posts. I may lose it if I have to read another.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 04, 2007, 01:29:17 PM
It isn't a question of being happy...I'm actually trying to look at it Objectively.  Yes, if it wasn't Wooster I agree it should have been Fisher, but Wooster is the only team of the 4 nationally ranked , and they are number 2!!.  They are even number 2 in the Massey (RPI-like) Ratings....  I'd like to know how the Wooster fans think of this. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 04, 2007, 01:30:20 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on March 04, 2007, 01:23:50 PM
I think 'Port would rather play Fisher in Ohio than playing them in that little bandbox of hell. I really hope the whining coming from Pittsford over the last two years had nothing to do with this decision. I'm still going to root for Fisher because they're in Ithaca's conference but I really can't take anymore of FD's irrational posts. I may lose it if I have to read another.

It's OK, I think the chance of homer referees is less likely in the Sweet 16  ;) ... OK I couldn't resist, I'm just kidding...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 01:32:23 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on March 04, 2007, 01:01:41 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 04, 2007, 03:32:09 AM
Fisher is playing great basketball right now, they handled plattsburgh tonight.  However plattsburgh is a tough team that would not give up, they will be very tough to beat next year, as the only lose 2 guys. As far as hosting the sweet 16, it should be fisher or wooster, anything else what be a travesty.  size does not matter as fishers 28-0 team had to travel to amherst's small gym.  I really think fisher should get to host as they were the 1 seed in the east, and the 1 seed in the great lakes lost tonight.  If fisher hosts they will have a legit chance to make it to the final 4.  They will have to play a very good bport team, that i think they will win by 4+ then a really talented Wooster team, who knows.   Wooster may be better, but if Fisher gets the home court, its going to be a great game.  If baltz, mueller, and newman continue to play the way they are, fisher will be in the final 4 or atleast lose to a very good wooster team.  Bport is talented but not as good as fisher when they are playing to their potential.

You are the runaway winner for "Irrational Poster of the Year," FD. A "travesty" if Brockport hosts the tournament? Or are you just bitter that you'd have to play them on their home court? What about it would make it a travesty? The fact that they have a bigger gym than Fisher? The fact that they are more used to running huge events than Fisher (always have HS Sectionals there)? The fact that Brockport has a higher QOWI than Fisher? The fact that Brockport has won 16 of their last 17 games?

Yeah, a real travesty that would be if Brockport was allowed to host over Fisher. What a joke you are.
Quote from: gobombers15 on March 04, 2007, 01:23:50 PM
I think 'Port would rather play Fisher in Ohio than playing them in that little bandbox of hell. I really hope the whining coming from Pittsford over the last two years had nothing to do with this decision. I'm still going to root for Fisher because they're in Ithaca's conference but I really can't take anymore of FD's irrational posts. I may lose it if I have to read another.

I agree whole heartedly and its nice to hear of someone who would root for an inner conference team... i hate naz because i'm a fisher fan obviously i have to and my sister went there and hated it but if Naz were in the sweet 16s i'd back them 100%. Empire 8 is a great conference with some top notch teams Fisher, Utica, Ithaca, RIT, Naz and I hope they continue to contribute to the NCAA tourney for years to come.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 01:33:02 PM
haha i think most fisher fans would welcome new referees
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 04, 2007, 01:35:26 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 01:33:02 PM
haha i think most fisher fans would welcome new referees

those referees were honestly horrible last night. they called 2 inbounding violations and somewhere around 30 fouls, including a hacking foul on plattsburgh with 7 seconds to go and the game already decided.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 04, 2007, 01:35:53 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 01:33:02 PM
haha i think most fisher fans would welcome new referees

Only if those new referees gave them more calls than the old ones. Then again, I have heard statements in a lot of gyms where the home fans have said, "we're the home team, we should be getting those calls!" It's not exclusive to Fisher fans making those comments.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: wooscotsfan on March 04, 2007, 01:51:26 PM
Quote from: pg04 on March 04, 2007, 01:29:17 PM
It isn't a question of being happy...I'm actually trying to look at it Objectively.  Yes, if it wasn't Wooster I agree it should have been Fisher, but Wooster is the only team of the 4 nationally ranked , and they are number 2!!.  They are even number 2 in the Massey (RPI-like) Ratings....  I'd like to know how the Wooster fans think of this. 

pg04 - it is an ugly decision prompted by the NCAA's inferior QoWI methodology.  SJF has a higher QOWI than Wooster and that was probably the key factor in awarding hosting privileges.  Wooster has a lower QoWI simply because there are a number of very bad teams (poor records) at the bottom of their conference.  QoWI is so bad as a rating system that it will replaced next season by a new methodology.  Wooster at 27-3 has the best record of the four teams and did not get to host.  One of the three losses was actually to a nationally ranked NAIA team in California so Wooster only has two D3 losses.

A second issue could be availability of tickets for Wooster fans trying to make the trip to SJF.  The ticket rush posts have already started on the NCAC board because Wooster will probably get only 200 tickets allotted for Friday's games.

All that said, Wooster seems highly motivated at this point with 3 of their top 8 players (Seniors Port, Vandervaart, Van Horn) knowing that this is their last chance to get to the Final Four.

Wooster will not be intimidated by the SJF gym.  Wooster has played in front of nearly 3,000 hostile fans at some road games (Wittenberg being an example) and Wooster picked up the victory.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 04, 2007, 01:55:03 PM
Good luck Wooscotsfan!!

Don't worry, hopefully Brockport will beat Fisher before you have to play them in their "intimidating" gym! 

(Not trying to incite any Fisher fans, by the way-- just being hopeful).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 04, 2007, 02:06:00 PM
Well hosting the regional is a big deal for Fisher...obviously they are a better team at home. I am starting to think Fisher actually has a chance to make it to the Final Four...two really tough games ahead of them tho.

Wooster is most likely the best team in the regional, and I would have them as the favorite on talent alone. I don't know much about John Carrol. Brockport and Fisher have been two of the top teams in NY all season. Brockport is going to be a real tough game for Fisher...Early predictions I will take Fisher over Brockport by 5 or less, because they are the home team, and are playing very well right now.

I will take Wooster over JCU by a few I guess. I don't know much about JCU like I said, and I know Wooster is the real deal.

On Saturday I will take Wooster over Fisher in a tight one. Maybe by 4 points.

Either way I think it will be three great games this weekend at Fisher...If someone would have told me that Fisher would be hosting a regional a few months ago I would have said they were crazy. Fun how this game works...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 04, 2007, 02:13:32 PM
WOW.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 04, 2007, 02:34:08 PM
I love how the Chase CONSOLATION game is a Sweet 16 matchup.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 04, 2007, 02:40:12 PM
Well everyone, I'm sooo happy! Its about time. Fishers chances look real good now. Its gonna be crazy Friday night. With spring break almost over, it'll be a nice return for the students. Will tickets be sold in advance? Will it possibly sellout? For me, this is a big deal having it at Fisher. The players and coaches deserve it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 04, 2007, 02:40:36 PM
Here's what Fisher's players were told:

1) SJF had a tougher out-of-region schedule.

2) SJF did well in the last two tournaments.

3) SJF's trip to the regionals in Amherst with an undefeated record 2 years ago played a role in this year's decision.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 04, 2007, 02:41:54 PM
Cadillac, from what you wrote, I agree. They deserve it. It'll be packed in a 1200 gym.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 04, 2007, 02:43:31 PM
Hey, bj, do you think the students will be back?

I think most of them will be closer to the Equator than Rochester on Friday.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 04, 2007, 02:50:17 PM
only a minority of students actually go away, most students just go home, and therefore are still close to Fisher...It should be fun, my guess is that fisher will bring in pizza and good stuff like that...


I will post a resturant guide later in the week...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 04, 2007, 02:57:41 PM
Cadillac, I'm not a Fisher student. I just graduated from SUNY Cortland. It'll be interesting to see what happens. It could be like this past weekend with some Fisher students going OR it could be even a bigger turnout which would be very nice. Like I said from my previous post, this is a big deal for me, having the Regionals at Fisher, my home is right in Pittsford and this will be Fishers first time hosting it. Haven't seen Fisher play in the sweet 16 ever and last sweet 16 I saw was at Brockport back in '02.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 04, 2007, 02:50:17 PM
I will post a resturant guide later in the week...
Gotta include the best garbage plate restaurants... I know the Ohioans have been really wanting to eat one of those. ;)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: David Collinge on March 04, 2007, 03:04:22 PM
Quote from: Cadillac on March 04, 2007, 02:40:36 PM
Here's what Fisher's players were told:

1) SJF had a tougher out-of-region schedule.

2) SJF did well in the last two tournaments.

3) SJF's trip to the regionals in Amherst with an undefeated record 2 years ago played a role in this year's decision.

I can only hope that Fisher's players were lied to.  Here's the official site selection criteria:

Quote from: NCAA Men's D3 Basketball Championship Handbook, page 7Site Selection
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility.

There's nothing in there about how well they did in tournaments past, or whether they got screwed in site selection two years ago (except as it applies to "rotation of sites.")  There's nothing there either about out-of-region competition, except that that is part of the secondary criteria for seeding, and seeding is just the third priority--in other words, out-of-region competition is a very remote and insignificant factor if it is used at all.

Fisher was probably selected because they were the highest surviving seed in the bracket and has marginally acceptable facilities.  It can't hurt that there's a second local team in the draw, either. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 04, 2007, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 04, 2007, 02:50:17 PM
I will post a resturant guide later in the week...
Gotta include the best garbage plate restaurants... I know the Ohioans have been really wanting to eat one of those. ;)

fairport hots is where its at if you want a garbage plate, they can also be referred to as hambergur plate, junk plate or basically anything with plate in the name.

as far as fisher students go I wouldn't expect anymore than what was there saturday. However I expect fisher to hold their weight in attendance thanks to the huge numbers of adults who attend. I would expect tickets to be sold in advance at all areas and fisher too but you should be able to get tickets at the door since fishers tickets wont be sold out in presale.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 04, 2007, 03:17:39 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 04, 2007, 02:50:17 PM
I will post a resturant guide later in the week...
Gotta include the best garbage plate restaurants... I know the Ohioans have been really wanting to eat one of those. ;)

Yes I recomend that whoever wins the JCU-WOOST game goes out to fairport hots and get a bunch of godfather plates, and then they should go to Baird Road Pub and wash it down with a couple genny's,
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cards7580 on March 04, 2007, 03:22:33 PM
Quote from: Bill Gorman on March 04, 2007, 10:08:01 AM
As an adminsitrator from a school that played at Fisher Friday night (and I'm not hiding behind any alias), I want to congratulate St. John Fisher on picking up the two W's this past weekend.  While (obviously) myself and the rest of the Wentworth program were disappointed in Friday's outcome, Wentworth ran into a very hot shooting team, peaking at the right time, and the rest they say is history.  I was in the hallway behind where the Fisher players were standing and didn't see the Plattsburgh shot go in, just the reaction from the SJF players.

I also want to "tip my cap" to everyone at Fisher for putting on a great event.  None of our players had ever been in this situation and everything was first class and made the experience that much more enjoyable for the student-athletes, as well as their parents who made the trek.

Good luck as you move on!

And neither am I, Mr Gorman.  I have no affiliation with any college that was there other than being a "former" participant.  I'm glad you and your team had a great time.  Comparing my most recent experieces at Cortland State, RIT and Brockport State for the SUNYAC Championship game the preparation and operation and facility was far superior than the 'so called'  Fisher 1st class.   The Fisher staff works with what they have. What they have is an outdated "quait" little gym that at best might sit 900 people comfortably.  Little to no handicap access (zero on court level ) and they would have to look through the railing on the street level portion. And if Fisher counts their court level seating in this 1000-1200 seat capacity they should not.  Because it was not being used on the bench side and the first row on the opposite side remains off-limits to fans.   I would suspect having not been to Fisher during wit a full student crowd there, those seats are just for standing because they are narrow and did not get filled to capacity either night.

As a participant, sure ,  it might have seemed great.  As a visiting fan, far below expectations from a private school that has the money Fisher has to upgrade.   No "sour grapes" as one of you put it, just stating facts from observations.    There has got to be 50 high schools in the  Rochester area with better facilities than Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 04, 2007, 03:25:59 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 04, 2007, 03:04:22 PM
Quote from: Cadillac on March 04, 2007, 02:40:36 PM
Here's what Fisher's players were told:

1) SJF had a tougher out-of-region schedule.

2) SJF did well in the last two tournaments.

3) SJF's trip to the regionals in Amherst with an undefeated record 2 years ago played a role in this year's decision.

I can only hope that Fisher's players were lied to. 

Perhaps they were.  Maybe avenging the regional trip two years ago is some sort of motivation for the upperclassmen.  I'm just passing along what I was told.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cards7580 on March 04, 2007, 03:26:31 PM
Quote from: ksc218 on March 04, 2007, 01:35:26 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 01:33:02 PM
haha i think most fisher fans would welcome new referees

those referees were honestly horrible last night. they called 2 inbounding violations and somewhere around 30 fouls, including a hacking foul on plattsburgh with 7 seconds to go and the game already decided.

I agree.  They performed equally bad for both teams. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 04, 2007, 03:29:28 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 04, 2007, 03:17:39 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 04, 2007, 02:50:17 PM
I will post a resturant guide later in the week...
Gotta include the best garbage plate restaurants... I know the Ohioans have been really wanting to eat one of those. ;)

Yes I recomend that whoever wins the JCU-WOOST game goes out to fairport hots and get a bunch of godfather plates, and then they should go to Baird Road Pub and wash it down with a couple genny's,

I recommend JCU or Wooster does that about 3 hours before the regional final game!

I think your first plate should always be at Nick's... then go to Fairport or my personal favorite, Penfield Hots.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 04, 2007, 03:45:43 PM
Quote from: Cards7580 on March 04, 2007, 03:22:33 PM
Quote from: Bill Gorman on March 04, 2007, 10:08:01 AM
As an adminsitrator from a school that played at Fisher Friday night (and I'm not hiding behind any alias), I want to congratulate St. John Fisher on picking up the two W's this past weekend.  While (obviously) myself and the rest of the Wentworth program were disappointed in Friday's outcome, Wentworth ran into a very hot shooting team, peaking at the right time, and the rest they say is history.  I was in the hallway behind where the Fisher players were standing and didn't see the Plattsburgh shot go in, just the reaction from the SJF players.

I also want to "tip my cap" to everyone at Fisher for putting on a great event.  None of our players had ever been in this situation and everything was first class and made the experience that much more enjoyable for the student-athletes, as well as their parents who made the trek.

Good luck as you move on!

And neither am I, Mr Gorman.  I have no affiliation with any college that was there other than being a "former" participant.  I'm glad you and your team had a great time.  Comparing my most recent experieces at Cortland State, RIT and Brockport State for the SUNYAC Championship game the preparation and operation and facility was far superior than the 'so called'  Fisher 1st class.   The Fisher staff works with what they have. What they have is an outdated "quait" little gym that at best might sit 900 people comfortably.  Little to no handicap access (zero on court level ) and they would have to look through the railing on the street level portion. And if Fisher counts their court level seating in this 1000-1200 seat capacity they should not.  Because it was not being used on the bench side and the first row on the opposite side remains off-limits to fans.   I would suspect having not been to Fisher during wit a full student crowd there, those seats are just for standing because they are narrow and did not get filled to capacity either night.

As a participant, sure ,  it might have seemed great.  As a visiting fan, far below expectations from a private school that has the money Fisher has to upgrade.   No "sour grapes" as one of you put it, just stating facts from observations.    There has got to be 50 high schools in the  Rochester area with better facilities than Fisher.

You sound a little sore about this weekend... Fisher's gym is not the best place to watch a game. That is no secret. It can still seat over 1000 people fairly easily (go to a Naz game and see how many the gym can fit). The gym is also usually full when school is in session. The Athletic facilities at Fisher are actually very good compared to most schools. The Baseball and softball fields are newly renovated and top notch...The football stadium was basically built by the Buffalo Bills, and is second to none in the area. And as an ex-player in the soccer program, the practice fields are better than most game fields that we played on.
The basketball facilities are a bit behind the rest of the schools facilities, but it is still a good enough place for a regional, Obviously. Fisher has made a few renovations to improve the gym (new scoreboard, new seating for the teams, and new lighting.

It is a good thing for Fisher to host the regional. I would have probably given the thing to JCU...but I am obviously not complaining.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 04, 2007, 03:51:33 PM
If Fisher beats bport and john carrol upsets wooster then fisher will have an excellent chance at getting to the final 4.  I am with you on the If you would have asked me a month or 2 ago if fisher would be hosting the sweet 16 in the tournament i would have said you are nuts.  Stinks for Wooster seeing how they are ranked very highly and have less losses, however, thats how the ncaa works.  Fisher really needed that decision to go in there favor for a shot at getting to the final 4.  I hope to see a Fisher vs. Wooster match up in the elite 8 game. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: David Collinge on March 04, 2007, 04:01:58 PM
As a Wooster fan, it doesn't bother me if Fisher is the higher seed or anything like that.  All four teams are great, and all four could make good arguments that they "deserve" to be the host school and play these games at home.  My only complaint is the itty-bitty gym that will probably prevent me from being able to attend the games, when everyone could have been accommodated at Wooster (3400 cap.) and probably at JCU (2448) as well; and probably at other sites in the Rochester area.  Oh well.   :-\
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cards7580 on March 04, 2007, 04:05:44 PM
sjfcards

But I am not talking about football fields, field houses and playing fields outside.  I am talking about an undersized "old" campus gym.   I took a walk around before the game on Saturday and was amazed to see what else was there and had to laugh at the "varsity" gym comparing it to the rest of the facilities.  

The only things I am "sore" about are my back and my throat.    ;D  

I haven't been to Nazareth in 20 years so if it looks the same as then, yes, you are right. But, so what ?
Nazareth isn't hosting anything.    

I'm just saying that the SJFisher TEAM deserves a better facility for the quality of their team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cards7580 on March 04, 2007, 04:15:13 PM
David C  - Wooster fan

If you decide to go, get there at least 1.5 hours before gametime.     

or

Call the Sj Fisher offices (assistant AD in charge of facilities) to see if they are allocating tickets to each school.
I was told it would be done this past weekend, but I didn't see evidence of it from the students selling the
tickets at the door.       U of R got 200, and the other teams each were allocated 100 tickets ( as I was told).
However, those tickets were only going to be held until 15 minutes before gametime.   And If you do go, good luck with parking if the students are back. 

By the way, good luck to all the teams that are in it. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 04, 2007, 04:15:58 PM
agreed Dave, its going to be a shame seeing people getting rejected at the door.  I almost feel like there wont even be a lot of fisher students there, if they dont get there for the game before, they may not even make it in.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 04, 2007, 04:17:08 PM
First off, parking is not that bad...and the lot where they gym is is no longer student parking.... second off yes the floor seats to the varsity gym are very handicap accesible you just need to go to the SLC main entrance...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 04, 2007, 04:30:50 PM
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility.

If the NCAA followed that guideline, I am baffled by their conclusion.  There's no way you can consider Fisher's gym of higher quality than either Wooster or Brockport.  Geography is only a minor concern considering the teams involved. 

Any of the cities (Cleveland, Wooster, Rochester) can accommodate four teams. 

#3 had to be the deciding factor (unless the committee had some residual guilt for sending Fisher to Amherst two years ago, as has been suggested).  And, as has been said, that's too bad.  Because some fans aren't going to be able to go to the games. 

Anyway...  I think Brockport will beat Fisher.  They are exactly the kind of team that can exploit the Cards weaknesses.  They will press hard, they have a ton of athletes, and they'll stay up on the perimeter guys. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 04, 2007, 04:39:26 PM
And with all that said, it's pretty cool to have an Empire 8 team hosting a regional.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 04, 2007, 04:44:35 PM
Something else about this choice -- I've seen more crazy/impressive plays and endings in that gym over the last 7 years than I can remember (and not just by Fisher players, thankfully).  See the Plattsburgh miracle on Friday.  Strange things happen there.  There will be drama next weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 04, 2007, 05:06:00 PM
Be warned:  the parking can be atrocious.

The SLC (large gym connected to the varsity arena) is often booked with youth basketball events.  For the E8 championship, campus security was waving cars through to the other side of campus.  I had to park halfway to Naz.

Get there early, even if you have tickets.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 05:29:33 PM
yes whoever said parking isn't a concern... must have a student parking permit? because that parking lot i assure you is still for students. I suggest parking at the park n ride and walking to the gym around the football field. The other lot that they send people to is poorly marked and littered with construction and maintenance vehicles. At every home game this season there has been a man with some sawhorses and an orange light and vest waving past any car who attempts to park there... if you are smart you'll lie, say you are just dropping someone off and then park there, thats what some of the parents do. And as far as fishers facilities go even though i dont' think they are good enough to host this type of even solely based on seating capactity there is ample court space available for practicing for all teams which is important. There are basically 3 gyms between the varsity gym and the other gym with the divider. The weight room is small but it is a d3 school.

and as far as the "garbage plates" go if you want a garbage plate you HAVE to go to nick tahou hots... thats the only place "garbage plates" techinically exist. and my second choice would also be Penfield Hots for a "Varsity Plate."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 05:30:28 PM
and as far as plates go i am amongst the foremost connoisseurs of the subject... if you will
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cards7580 on March 04, 2007, 05:35:16 PM
IF you are a fan from any of the other three schools

A. get their 2 hours before the 1st game time.  
   Like Cadillac said, the lot next to the gym was full more than an hour before game time.
   And it wasn't with all the SJF-CYP youth basketball crowd.   There maintenance department
   hasn't cleared all the snow-plowed piles away yet.  So they loose close to 10 spots that are
   covered.  Maybe they will fix that before this weekend.

B. Eat before you go, you may not be able to get anything there other than soda and candy.

C. If you are handicapped or have others in your party who need handicapped access call the school
   and talk to them as to what their procedures are because the students doing tickets at the door
   were clueless as to floor access for wheel chairs and there are NO signs stating go to the other entrance
   that was spoken about in an earlier post.   The men's room in the lobby is also a tight squeeze for a
   person who requires a wheel chair.

D. wear warm clothes for standing in-line (maybe outside of the lobby).  
   Tickets went on sale 1 hour before each 1st game and the doors were not open before 5 pm on
   Friday for anyone.  On Saturday, the doors were opened 10 minutes before 6pm for the 7 pm game
   because there were a good number of elderly standing in the 20 degree cold.

E. If you want to sit floor level get down there and stake out your seats and don't leave.  They may not
   be available if you get up.   Also note the bleacher down there are very narrow for foot space. So if you
   are over 5' 10" you need to sit either in the 2nd row (no seating allowed in the first row) or in the back row
   that is at the end of each aisle.   These seats are on the opposite side of the court from the team benches.

F.  Hope that none of the other schools brings a pep band like the U of R.   15-20 piece band took up 30 or more
   seats on Friday.  coats, instrument cases, extra stuff.   Good band however.   ;D    Added a great touch to the
   game.  

G.  If you have trouble hearing don't worry, the P.A. system is pretty bad.  This fact comes from the SJFisher fans
   who were sitting next to me.   Complaining that they couldn't hear and why isn't there a better sound system
   at this school.  

H.  All seats are bench type, not individual chairs.   I did not see a coat check room (didnt look) so be prepared to sit
    on your coat or wear it all game long.  I think there must be a SJFisher special alumni room or something
    because I noticed many of them not having coats with them at their seats.  OR maybe they know where the
    coatroom was in the lobby.   Like I said, I didnt look.  

I.  If you are a smoke call ahead for the rules at this facility.   There were signs saying "no re-entry" in the lobby.
   I don't smoke so I don't know if there was an out-side smoking section that allowed re-entry from and to the
   lobby.  

J.  I was also told there was "NO advanced ticket sales" for round 1 and round 2 games.  I asked again after round 1
   to get a ticket for Saturday and was told no sales until 6 pm ( 1 hour before 7 pm game time).   So unless that
   rule changes,  you really really need to get there early to see these games.    Even in the event that Brockport
   beats Fisher on Friday, they may have a ton of people show up for Saturday.  
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: BBallfan930 on March 04, 2007, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: bamm on March 04, 2007, 04:30:50 PM
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility.

If the NCAA followed that guideline, I am baffled by their conclusion.  There's no way you can consider Fisher's gym of higher quality than either Wooster or Brockport.  Geography is only a minor concern considering the teams involved. 



Any of the cities (Cleveland, Wooster, Rochester) can accommodate four teams. 

#3 had to be the deciding factor (unless the committee had some residual guilt for sending Fisher to Amherst two years ago, as has been suggested).  And, as has been said, that's too bad.  Because some fans aren't going to be able to go to the games. 

Anyway...  I think Brockport will beat Fisher.  They are exactly the kind of team that can exploit the Cards weaknesses.  They will press hard, they have a ton of athletes, and they'll stay up on the perimeter guys. 


The way the cards are playing, I don't see many weaknesses...  Brockport beat fisher the first game of the year.  They have come a long way since then (even avenging that loss).  They probably would have beat any team in the tourney this past Friday or Saturday... 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 04, 2007, 05:45:30 PM
Quote from: BBallfan930 on March 04, 2007, 05:37:48 PM

The way the cards are playing, I don't see many weaknesses...  Brockport beat fisher the first game of the year.  They have come a long way since then (even avenging that loss).  They probably would have beat any team in the tourney this past Friday or Saturday... 

Puh-lease.  The overconfidence is entertaining, but the reality is that Fisher's competition in the tournament has been subpar thusfar -- exactly as it's been the previous 2 years.  Wentworth was wildly overmatched on the road and Plattsburgh was inconsistent and the 2nd or 3rd best team in a mediocre SUNYAC (a conference that was weak relative to the previous few years). 

Things will change dramatically this weekend.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: BBallfan930 on March 04, 2007, 06:03:10 PM
Quote from: bamm on March 04, 2007, 05:45:30 PM
Quote from: BBallfan930 on March 04, 2007, 05:37:48 PM

The way the cards are playing, I don't see many weaknesses...  Brockport beat fisher the first game of the year.  They have come a long way since then (even avenging that loss).  They probably would have beat any team in the tourney this past Friday or Saturday... 

Puh-lease.  The overconfidence is entertaining, but the reality is that Fisher's competition in the tournament has been subpar thusfar -- exactly as it's been the previous 2 years.  Wentworth was wildly overmatched on the road and Plattsburgh was inconsistent and the 2nd or 3rd best team in a mediocre SUNYAC (a conference that was weak relative to the previous few years). 

Things will change dramatically this weekend.

subpar?  By what standards?  what weaknesses are you talking about? 


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 04, 2007, 06:16:37 PM
Quote from: BBallfan930 on March 04, 2007, 06:03:10 PM
Quote from: bamm on March 04, 2007, 05:45:30 PM
Quote from: BBallfan930 on March 04, 2007, 05:37:48 PM

The way the cards are playing, I don't see many weaknesses...  Brockport beat fisher the first game of the year.  They have come a long way since then (even avenging that loss).  They probably would have beat any team in the tourney this past Friday or Saturday... 

Puh-lease.  The overconfidence is entertaining, but the reality is that Fisher's competition in the tournament has been subpar thusfar -- exactly as it's been the previous 2 years.  Wentworth was wildly overmatched on the road and Plattsburgh was inconsistent and the 2nd or 3rd best team in a mediocre SUNYAC (a conference that was weak relative to the previous few years). 

Things will change dramatically this weekend.

subpar?  By what standards?  what weaknesses are you talking about? 


Well, Wentworth was certainly one of the worst teams to make the tournament (sorry, to any Wentworth fans still lurking).  And as I said, Plattsburgh was the 2nd or 3rd best team in a weakened SUNYAC.  I think that's as simple as I can say that.

Apparently Lake Erie was the #1 seed in this bracket... and they had a MUCH tougher 2nd round game (John Carroll) than Fisher had.  See what I mean?  The competition is about to get a lot better.

In terms of Fisher's weaknesses, if you've paid attention to the board all season you'd have read plenty of discussion about them.  Their young guards can be rattled with pressure (see losses to UR, Port, RIT).  They MUST shoot well to beat the best teams, so if you contest every jumper you have a good chance to beat them.  Again, this is what Brockport specializes in.  SLU had 22 turnovers in their loss yesterday.  Fisher had 22 and 19 turnovers in the games against Port this season.

I think Port wins this one, but I won't be surprised either way.  Fisher finds strange ways to win in Varsity Gym.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 04, 2007, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: bamm on March 04, 2007, 06:16:37 PM
Quote from: BBallfan930 on March 04, 2007, 06:03:10 PM
Quote from: bamm on March 04, 2007, 05:45:30 PM
Quote from: BBallfan930 on March 04, 2007, 05:37:48 PM

The way the cards are playing, I don't see many weaknesses...  Brockport beat fisher the first game of the year.  They have come a long way since then (even avenging that loss).  They probably would have beat any team in the tourney this past Friday or Saturday... 

Puh-lease.  The overconfidence is entertaining, but the reality is that Fisher's competition in the tournament has been subpar thusfar -- exactly as it's been the previous 2 years.  Wentworth was wildly overmatched on the road and Plattsburgh was inconsistent and the 2nd or 3rd best team in a mediocre SUNYAC (a conference that was weak relative to the previous few years). 

Things will change dramatically this weekend.

subpar?  By what standards?  what weaknesses are you talking about? 


Well, Wentworth was certainly one of the worst teams to make the tournament (sorry, to any Wentworth fans still lurking).  And as I said, Plattsburgh was the 2nd or 3rd best team in a weakened SUNYAC.  I think that's as simple as I can say that.

Apparently Lake Erie was the #1 seed in this bracket... and they had a MUCH tougher 2nd round game (John Carroll) than Fisher had.  See what I mean?  The competition is about to get a lot better.

In terms of Fisher's weaknesses, if you've paid attention to the board all season you'd have read plenty of discussion about them.  Their young guards can be rattled with pressure (see losses to UR, Port, RIT).  They MUST shoot well to beat the best teams, so if you contest every jumper you have a good chance to beat them.  Again, this is what Brockport specializes in.  SLU had 22 turnovers in their loss yesterday.  Fisher had 22 and 19 turnovers in the games against Port this season.

I think Port wins this one, but I won't be surprised either way.  Fisher finds strange ways to win in Varsity Gym.


Yes, I agree.  Fisher fans are already planning where the JCU-Wooster can go after the first game to get drunk as if they are going to win  :D. 

Should be a good game and look forward to listening to it!! 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 06:39:19 PM
i don't see many weaknesses in fishers team, especially not this weekend.

the young guardplay... by whose standards? freshmen yes but now they each have a full season behind them with some quality subs if they indeed get "shaken up"

also even with contesting each jumper... mueller and baltz have a beautiful long ball and they can either set up and shoot the trey or catch and realease as quick as need be.

As far as the big men go McSweeney, Beigel and Smalt are playing well and sharing the minutes a little more. When smalt can come off the bench and contribute 11 boards one night and 8 points the next while mcsweeney and beigel are still pouring in 15 or more each its going to be tough for any team to match their frontcourt play.

on any given night someone will step up from the fisher ranks (baltz 27 against wentworth, mueller 25 against plattsburgh)

Fisher does have a tough road ahead of them to get out of this weekend but the way they are playing and given the luck of staying at home they have an excellent chance of taking a trip to salem
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 04, 2007, 06:57:41 PM
Fisher fans like yourselves were saying the exact same things before blowout losses to Potsdam and Amherst. 

Quote from: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 06:39:19 PM
the young guardplay... by whose standards?

I guess I don't know what that means.  But as recently as February starting PG Matt Newman had to be subbed out for the final 15 minutes of a game against RIT because he was rattled by pressure (at home, no less).  He's a decent player, but both he and Baltz are prone to making bad decisions by teams that play fast, trapping, tough defense (hello Brockport).

Are you really that insane/blind/obnoxious that you don't believe the team has weaknesses?

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 04, 2007, 07:45:23 PM
Quote from: ksc218 on March 04, 2007, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 04, 2007, 02:50:17 PM
I will post a resturant guide later in the week...
Gotta include the best garbage plate restaurants... I know the Ohioans have been really wanting to eat one of those. ;)

fairport hots is where its at if you want a garbage plate, they can also be referred to as hambergur plate, junk plate or basically anything with plate in the name.


You need to expand your horizons then, friend. Send the Ohioans to Tahou's if they're only in town for one weekend. Seriously, I think the only worse "plate" I've ever had was from Perinton Hots. I wouldn't put Fairport Hots in the top 7 or 8 in Rochester.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 04, 2007, 08:04:38 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on March 04, 2007, 07:45:23 PM
Quote from: ksc218 on March 04, 2007, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 04, 2007, 02:50:17 PM
I will post a resturant guide later in the week...
Gotta include the best garbage plate restaurants... I know the Ohioans have been really wanting to eat one of those. ;)

fairport hots is where its at if you want a garbage plate, they can also be referred to as hambergur plate, junk plate or basically anything with plate in the name.


You need to expand your horizons then, friend. Send the Ohioans to Tahou's if they're only in town for one weekend. Seriously, I think the only worse "plate" I've ever had was from Perinton Hots. I wouldn't put Fairport Hots in the top 7 or 8 in Rochester.

yeah i couldn't remember if it was fairports or nicks who invented the plate and i've never been to nicks either so i don't know which is best. whoops
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 04, 2007, 08:09:29 PM
Fisher does have weaknesses with just about every other team.  If i were playing fisher i would pressure the Sh&$* out of them just as bport is going to do.  How they handle the pressure will be up in the air, it should be interesting.  However, the fisher team this wkend was 10x better then the fisher team we've seen all season, baltz and newman are playing amazing, can they keep it up? we'll see, freshmen tend to be inconsistent.  As far as could that have beat anyteam this wkend? maybe not, but i think they would have stayed in the game.  bamm your right, the two teams this wkend were not what they are going to see this wkend with wooster if they get there.  Plattsburgh i think is a good team, will be very good next year as most players were only juniors.  Fishers biggest weakness and has been the past few years is if they get down big early they tend to take themselves out of the game.  We'll see if fisher is shooting well and take care of the balli think they will beat brockport inline with sjfcards predictions about 5.  Tough to make predictions on the Wooster game, if Wooster gets upset, then I like bport or Fishers chances of representing the East in the Final 4. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 04, 2007, 08:17:20 PM
I'll take the #2 team in the country to come out of this regional, whether it's B'port or Fisher in the Elite 8 is anyone's guess. Fisher got better during the second half of the conference season but Brockport REALLY came on after the Chase Tourney. Should be a good one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 04, 2007, 08:35:39 PM
it should be a great game and Cards obviously you had a bad experiance at that gym, but from players that I have talked to they like playing there because of how loud it can get and the floor and scoreboard are both new.... and jeez compared to Amherst Parking, parking at fisher is good, especially since students will still not be on campus and last friday and saturday some students were still on campus because dorms did not close till saturday at 6.

But as much as it pains me to say it I would have to take Wooster winning this regional but who knows stranger things have happened in the world
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 04, 2007, 09:05:37 PM
A lot of people have a "bad" experience as fans at Fisher...A lot of fans are frustrated about what happens there. Most players that I have talked to from other teams have all said that it is a fine place to play, and that the fans actually made it more fun to play their. Regardless of what people may think of Fisher, they have a chance to win this weekend. Brockport will be a real challange for Fisher on Friday...It should be a real fun weekend of basketball.

Wooster should probably win the regional this weekend. They are for sure the favorite in my mind.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 04, 2007, 10:41:58 PM
and the garbage plate comment benefits both fisher and brockport...it was a funny joke anyone who knows what a garbage plate is also knows that only idiots eat it before athletic competiton
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 10:45:22 PM
bamm that home game against RIT was a growing pain for newman who was in the end of the game and actually was the one with the weight of the last shot resting solidly on his shoulders.

and as far as for putting fisher on a platform i am not i don't even attend school there i  go to a different institution but i feel that you are making them look like a sinking ship and if they play this coming weekend the way they did last weekend then they will be tough to beat.

And its a good thing because i feel like whoever comes out of this regional will be going to the championship game...these teams are all of such high quality that it wouldn't suprise me if one of them became champions this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2007, 10:47:06 PM
I also have friends attending JC and 'Port so i wouldn't be upset in the least if one of those teams moved on.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 05, 2007, 12:11:24 AM
Wow, how did Fisher go from losing at Alfred to potential participant in a National Championship Game? Still a lot of meat left on that bone before we even start talking about that possibility, fellas.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 05, 2007, 02:01:34 AM
first off GB15 and Bamm, as much as it will pain you, you guys should be cheering for fisher, if fisher even makes the final four, they will be the only team to make the football and basketball final four and that will be huge for the E8 and considering RIT was the last team to beat fisher, and ithaca took them to 4 ot's your teams should be hoping for a fisher final 4
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 07:38:47 AM
keystone- no i did graduate in May 91..
Though i do agree on the garbage plate thing.
Never been to the others but Nick is the only "home" of the real plate.
SOme of the other Fisher faithful have sent me to Fairport, yet it seems like a cop-out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 08:22:52 AM
Hey Super-
Hosting regionals- I would have never have thought that earlier this year- Enjoy the games!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 05, 2007, 09:13:38 AM
unfortunantly- I will not be able to make it out to Rochester for the games, I am stuck in Schenectady working
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 05, 2007, 09:18:43 AM
Predictions for this wkend:

Fisher vs Bport = +5

Wooster Vs. JCU = +9


Fisher Vs Wooster = +7


Should be a great wkend, I hope Fisher can get by Bport to play a power like Wooster.   If JCU beats wooster, I like Fishers chances at a final 4 if they get by port.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 09:30:25 AM
i feel your pain super!
too bad-
but go alma mater!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: bamm on March 04, 2007, 04:39:26 PM
And with all that said, it's pretty cool to have an Empire 8 team hosting a regional.

Regionals were last week, these are sectionals.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 12:42:35 PM
oh.
It's great to have fisher in the sectionals then!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ScotsFan on March 05, 2007, 12:56:22 PM
I found this qoute over on the SUNYAC board and I thought my response might be worth including here on the E8 board as well:

Quote from: Cards7580 on March 04, 2007, 06:08:47 PM

I hear all these stories about how SJF fills the gym during the season, and this is NCAA playoffs.  One would assume they could fill it now.   
That seems to be all they are is 'stories'.  Judging from their attendance figures, Fisher is averaging less than 600 per game.  You'd think, seeing as 'this is the NCAA playoffs' you'd see better turnout???  Nope!  Listed attendance over both NCAA home games for Fisher over the weekend:  650 for both games?!  That's barely 50% capacity!  Compare that to Wooster's attendance over the weekend:  3,038 Friday night and 3,207 Saturday night and they averaged over 2,000 per game at home throughout the regular season. 

The bottom line is that the NCAA really dropped the ball on this one!  Rewarding a team to host a sectional that can't even sell out a puny little 1200 seat gym in the NCAA tournament?!  Now, we as fans of the other schools involved in this sectional are rewarded with the possibility of not even having the opportunity to watch a game live because the games are being played in such a puny little gym and there might not be enough tickets to go around?! ???  Fisher needs to do the smart thing and clear the gym between sessions on Friday night!  They wanted the host, now they need to take responsibility and do the right thing even if it involves a little more work on their part!!!


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 05, 2007, 12:58:15 PM
ScotsFan i wouldnt worry about the gym being sold out, im sure there will be hundreds not getting into either game on friday and saturday.  The majority of the reason why the reg seasons dont get sold out is because the other e8 schools dont bring any fans in.  Last weekend fishers students were on break and neither team fisher played brought anyone and the gym was still full.  If you are smart you will get there early for the games this wkend and when you do play fisher get there over an hour early.  As Wooster, JCU and bport will all bring fans, its going to be a shame to watch all the people get rejected at the door.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 05, 2007, 01:00:46 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 05, 2007, 12:56:22 PM
I found this qoute over on the SUNYAC board and I thought my response might be worth including here on the E8 board as well:

Quote from: Cards7580 on March 04, 2007, 06:08:47 PM

I hear all these stories about how SJF fills the gym during the season, and this is NCAA playoffs.  One would assume they could fill it now.   
That seems to be all they are is 'stories'.  Judging from their attendance figures, Fisher is averaging less than 600 per game.  You'd think, seeing as 'this is the NCAA playoffs' you'd see better turnout???  Nope!  Listed attendance over both NCAA home games for Fisher over the weekend:  650 for both games?!  That's barely 50% capacity!  Compare that to Wooster's attendance over the weekend:  3,038 Friday night and 3,207 Saturday night and they averaged over 2,000 per game at home throughout the regular season. 

The bottom line is that the NCAA really dropped the ball on this one!  Rewarding a team to host a sectional that can't even sell out a puny little 1200 seat gym in the NCAA tournament?!  Now, we as fans of the other schools involved in this sectional are rewarded with the possibility of not even having the opportunity to watch a game live because the games are being played in such a puny little gym and there might not be enough tickets to go around?! ???  Fisher needs to do the smart thing and clear the gym between sessions on Friday night!  They wanted the host, now they need to take responsibility and do the right thing even if it involves a little more work on their part!!!




Someone has an exclamation point key that sticks.

Most Tired Act on D3 Message Board:  Complaining about not getting to host.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 05, 2007, 01:03:47 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 05, 2007, 02:01:34 AM
first off GB15 and Bamm, as much as it will pain you, you guys should be cheering for fisher, if fisher even makes the final four, they will be the only team to make the football and basketball final four and that will be huge for the E8 and considering RIT was the last team to beat fisher, and ithaca took them to 4 ot's your teams should be hoping for a fisher final 4

Ummm, did you read anything I wrote before that. Check a few posts back where I said I'd root for Fisher for conference reasons. That said, any and all complaining about not being able to host and years past should cease after Fisher being able to host this year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 01:06:17 PM
Fanbase is not one of the hosting criteria.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 05, 2007, 01:09:10 PM
Pat, can you give us any insight on why Fisher was selected over Brockport? Brockport has a gym that is 2x the size of Fisher's (revenue) so it would seem to me that, all else being equal (which it was), Brockport should have received the nod. I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just seeing if you can offer any explanation.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 05, 2007, 01:10:03 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 05, 2007, 02:01:34 AM
first off GB15 and Bamm, as much as it will pain you, you guys should be cheering for fisher, if fisher even makes the final four, they will be the only team to make the football and basketball final four and that will be huge for the E8 and considering RIT was the last team to beat fisher, and ithaca took them to 4 ot's your teams should be hoping for a fisher final 4

To be honest, I don't buy into this mindset at all.  I am not a fan whose favorite teams are my team, and whoever is playing my team's rival, but I still am not rooting for anyone but IC.  I just really don't care what happens to teams that sruvive after the Bombers are done.  I think most fans are that way.  I also really don't buy into the whole argument that other teams in the conference winning make our team look better.  Just me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 05, 2007, 01:10:39 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 01:06:17 PM
Fanbase is not one of the hosting criteria.

This is a classic PC smackdown.  Has to go on your top ten list.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 05, 2007, 01:11:29 PM
GB15, I know the question was directed to Pat but I think it is because Fisher was the 1 seed in the East, Bport was the 2.  Wooster was the 2 in the GL region, therefore, Fisher is hosting, similarly to the reason why amherst hosted 2 yrs ago.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 01:12:51 PM
sheesh,
can we move on from the hosting crud and get on to the matchups please!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 01:16:13 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 05, 2007, 12:58:15 PMIf you are smart you will get there early for the games this wkend and when you do play fisher get there over an hour early.  As Wooster, JCU and bport will all bring fans, its going to be a shame to watch all the people get rejected at the door.

That's the fourth or fifth time I've seen this advice.  Do you mean to suggest that there will be tickets available at the door?  I am confident that Wooster will sell its allotment (200 for a single session, perhaps 600 if there is a split session) in presale, and quite probably will sell any additional tickets that may come our way by virtue of other schools failing to sell their allotment.  I guess I expect Brockport to sell their allotment (200 for single session, or 400 for split session).  JCU might not sell out, but their returned tickets would go 1/3 to Wooster, who'd sell them, and 1/3 to Port, who I presume would also sell them.  That just leaves Fisher.  Is there any chance they won't sell their allotment (600 if single session, 800 if split session) in presale?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 05, 2007, 01:17:07 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 01:12:51 PM
sheesh,
can we move on from the hosting crud and get on to the matchups please!!

based solely on past experience, the answer to this is clearly 'no.'

I wanted to amend my post before about not rooting for anyone once the Bombers are done.  That isn't entirely true.  I root against teams with fans that come on here and act like idiots.  Gwynedd-Mercy will be on that list and now it looks like I will be hoping Wooster gets pounded as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 01:21:05 PM
Mr Chair,
I am just hoping that this thread eventually moves away from host griping and on to the real subject at hand------the games!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 05, 2007, 01:25:06 PM
David, Fisher will sell its alotment with ease, so no luck there.  Past years previous sweet 16's the allotments were sold early and the games were in Mass.  I think Fisher  and bport fans that dont get presold tickets will have the hardest time getting in as since it is at their home place, fans won't get there early.  The fans from Ohio coming will ensure that they get there well before had the game to be safe from driving all the way out there and getting rejected.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 01:31:42 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 05, 2007, 01:25:06 PM
David, Fisher will sell its alotment with ease, so no luck there.  Past years previous sweet 16's the allotments were sold early and the games were in Mass.  I think Fisher  and bport fans that dont get presold tickets will have the hardest time getting in as since it is at their home place, fans won't get there early.  The fans from Ohio coming will ensure that they get there well before had the game to be safe from driving all the way out there and getting rejected.

That's what I thought; thanks.  Personally, I won't even leave my Ohio driveway without a ticket already in my wallet, seeing as there seems to be practically no hope that the Friday games won't be sold out in presale.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 05, 2007, 01:35:56 PM
Hopefully as Friday comes closer, someone from Fisher will be posting detailed info on ticket sales, what the plans are for clearing out the first game before the second game etc, then we can give the Wooster and JCU fans more insight on what to expect.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 05, 2007, 01:42:48 PM
Could there be more negativity regarding the ticket situation heading into this weekend?  

When the home fans are saying things like "you better get there 2 hours early", "parking sucks, you should just lie to the parking people and tell them you're only there for 5 minutes", and "don't leave your seat, it won't be there when you get back"... we could have a problem.  

Well done, NCAA.

Fortunately, out of towners, the rest of the situation in Rochester/Pittsford should be more accomodating.  If you're looking for a good bite and a beer close to Fisher, head down East Ave to the Pittsford Pub.  It's owned by the brother of Jeff Sluman (the PGA-er) and the decor is almost all golf related.

If you're looking for Italian, try Bennuci's in the Pittsford Plaza on Monroe Ave.  It's less than five minutes from Campus.  

If you want to catch a D-1 game in front of a lot of TV's, you could any number of places.  I recommend the newly remodeled Winfield Grill on Winton Rd -- it also has a ton of beers on tap.  If you want to venture further from campus the Distillery on Mt Hope Ave is a local favorite.

And if you just want to tie a good one on... just head down the road to Thirsty's (around the corner from the Pittsford Pub).  It's close and the beer is cheap.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 05, 2007, 01:44:42 PM
Good mentions on the out of game accomodations, big fan of the newly remodeled winfield's and always have been a fan of pittsford pub, great place.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 01:46:10 PM
Hmmm....Patims must have closed down a while after i was there.
Bamm- i assume that Fisher faithful no longer go to East Roch for a pop or two?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ScotsFan on March 05, 2007, 01:54:56 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 05, 2007, 01:17:07 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 01:12:51 PM
sheesh,
can we move on from the hosting crud and get on to the matchups please!!

based solely on past experience, the answer to this is clearly 'no.'

I wanted to amend my post before about not rooting for anyone once the Bombers are done.  That isn't entirely true.  I root against teams with fans that come on here and act like idiots.  Gwynedd-Mercy will be on that list and now it looks like I will be hoping Wooster gets pounded as well.
Aww shucks, we don't have the Chairman rooting for the Scots this weekend?! What are we ever going to do now???? :o   BTW, what's Ithaca doing these days?  Too bad that's all you have better to do than choose which teams you hope get 'pounded' based on a few posters in a D3 hoops forum?!

BTW, I love how now that Fisher is the host school, no one else is allowed to complain about the NCAA's selection process???  Give me a break.  You Fisher fans and everyone else associated with this forum (including you Chairman) should not be throwing stones.  I think the complaining Wooster fans have done is a fraction of what we heard coming from Fisher fans last season! 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 05, 2007, 01:57:01 PM
Okay Everyone, lets talk about Fishers chances this weekend now that they are FINALLY hosting sectionals. This is all just my opinion.

On Friday and Saturday, I was so impressed how Fisher took advantage against Wentworths small team and I was even more impressed against Plattsburgh considering that their team had some decent size. The attacked, attacked and attacked!I know Fishers strength is perimeter shooting especially shooting the 3's, but this inside presence by driving,slashing, and cutting to the hoop is a MUST against Brockport and hopefully Saturday. Also, how about Fishers foul shooting? I know they were at home but what a dramatic improvement! Must continue on Friday as well, plus they are at home. I don't know, but I like Fishers chances on Friday night against Brockport, why? They beat a Plattsburgh team that I feel plays the same way Brockeport plays, run and gun, face pace game, which Fisher showed they can play. Yes, they were 1-1 against them this year, but I feel Fisher will make the adjustments from the two games earlier.
Keys for Friday: minimum amount of TO's( like the game against Plattsburgh), continue their hottttt shooting, and they are at home.

I'm looking real foward in watching the first game, John Caroll vs. Wooster. I have never seen an Ohio team play let alone two. Be interesting especially Wooster, to see how good this NCAA powerhouse team is.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 05, 2007, 01:57:44 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 01:46:10 PM
Hmmm....Patims must have closed down a while after i was there.
Bamm- i assume that Fisher faithful no longer go to East Roch for a pop or two?

I couldn't really say.  When I was at RIT I could always find the Fisher basketball team and tons of students at Paradise Alley (Monroe Ave/Goodman), but that is now closed.  My guess is that now many Fisher students go to the East Ave / Alexander area.  
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 05, 2007, 02:00:36 PM
Bamm, great choices of places to eat and drink.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ScotsFan on March 05, 2007, 02:01:49 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 05, 2007, 01:10:39 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 01:06:17 PM
Fanbase is not one of the hosting criteria.

This is a classic PC smackdown.  Has to go on your top ten list.

You might want to add this as well:

Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 01:20:33 PM
Fanbase is one of the criteria, although it is a low priority and may never actually come into play:

Quote from: Men's Championship Handbook, page 7, emphasis addedSite Selection
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 05, 2007, 02:07:44 PM
Scotsfan, In almost all my posts in reply to wooster fans outraged at the hosting site, ive stated that i definatly feel your pain, it really stinks.  You should be allowed to complain as im sure We would which we have. 

BjGiants, I agree with your post 100%.  the past 4 fisher games, This team looked very similar to the past 2 seasons, something I thought was missing from this years team.  But they have looked very very solid.  However, Bport is the perfect match up to give Fisher problems in that you can get taken out of your game very easily with turnovers.  I jsut hope the Ref's are calling fouls and that Fisher takes care of the ball, which if they do they can get easy layups.  If bport is hitting there 3's then they will be tough to take down for anyone.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 02:11:38 PM
Bamm,
Patims was in East Rochester over by the train tracks.
Used to be a fisher hotbed in the 80's.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 05, 2007, 02:19:35 PM
FisherDynasty, also Fisher was able to beat Plattsburghs full court press towards the end of the game something U of R couldn't do, reason U of R lost. I'm sure Brockport might do the same as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 02:21:01 PM
finally some game chatter!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 05, 2007, 02:25:35 PM
If I were Bport I would press the whole game, which im almost positive they will do.  They are not going to give mueller or baltz any breathing room.  However, that opens up for some single coverage post possessions and lanes for driving as bport will be over playing, Fisher will need to get a lot of easy baskets to win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 02:26:09 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 05, 2007, 02:07:44 PM
Scotsfan, In almost all my posts in reply to wooster fans outraged at the hosting site, ive stated that i definatly feel your pain, it really stinks.  You should be allowed to complain as im sure We would which we have. 

I'll go you one better; I'm a little taken aback at the amount of self-flagellation I've read from presumed Fisher posters over the inadequacy of their facilities. 

I'm also somewhat surprised at the growing consensus that Wooster is a prohibitive favorite in this sectional.  Of course I agree with that assessment, given that I am an alumnus and longtime fan of Wooster, but I'll point out three mitigating factors:
* John Carroll has been a tournament nemesis for Wooster.  They are a very good team from a very good conference whose teams seem to play as if they have something to prove when pitted against NCAC teams.
* Brockport, from reports, plays an aggressive, physical style (so does JCU.)  Wooster relies largely on a finesse, quick-passing offensive style, and plays a very aggressive man-to-man defense.  Rugged physical teams are the worst possible matchup for the Scots' style, as they can slow down and disrupt the offense, and referees anxious to retain control of a physical game can take the Scots right out of their defensive gameplan.  Although it must be noted that, if it comes down to free throw shooting, that Wooster is #12 nationally in that department.
* Fisher is at home, and although I know nothing about them, their record of recent success clearly establishes that they are well-coached and run a good program.  This is especially true if this is a "rebuilding year" for the Cardinals as I have read. 
Wooster is a very good team that is playing its best ball of the season right now, and they probably should be considered the team to beat.  But this looks to me to be a close sectional, and one which any of the four teams could win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 05, 2007, 02:31:03 PM
I agree. Pat Coleman predicts that John Carroll will come out of this region and represent one of the 4 teams in the Final Four. Interesting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 02:34:05 PM
Also agree.
Wooster is the odds on favorite, but with so many scenerios that could play out- i wouldnt be shocked to see any one of these four to come out.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 05, 2007, 02:34:15 PM
Agreed David, I think any of the 4 can Win.  I think you should be routing for Fisher against brockport if Wooster is a team of finesse, because bport plays so hectic it is very hard to play your normal game against them.  They are probably the most athletic and quickest team left in the tourny and they utilize that to the greatest extent.  If you have ever seen lincoln play they play similarly to them but this year bport actually plays very good defense on top of making the game hectic. They have tons of good shooters and play very physical.  Although Fisher's bigs are somewhat bruisers and Fisher plays good defense, I think that game would be much more of a disciplined well played game, which would probably favor Wooster a little bit.  I think Fisher will take care of bport at home, so hopefully we'll see a Wooster vs Fisher match up in the elite 8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: diehardfan on March 05, 2007, 03:07:40 PM
Hey guys, I just thought I'd pop in to let you know about a little project we did. A group of around 40 posters banded together and created a Unofficial Guide to the 2006-2007 NCAA Tourney, that contains a team-by-team breakdown of the teams in the tournament. This is especially cool given the fact that the official NCAA guide gives you very little insight into the teams, and nearly all of the previews in the Unofficial Guide were made by fans of the team.

The website is: http://wheatonhoops.googlepages.com/ncaatourney and on that website you can find browsable information, as well as a 19 page printable PDF document. This was updated as of this morning.

While I doubt that we'll ever get any posters to submit information for the 11 teams that did not submit previews, it does include previews from 48 of the 59 teams in the tournament, and all of the teams in the Sweet Sixteen. I hope you check it out and enjoy the content!

If there are any corrections or content additions you would like to me, please submit them to me by PM. Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 05, 2007, 03:14:01 PM
diehard- that is very interesting!
Thank you!
Title: Ticket Info from SJF web site
Post by: Cards7580 on March 05, 2007, 04:07:01 PM
The St. John Fisher College Cardinals will host the NCAA Division III Championship Sectional semifinals and finals this Friday, March 9 and Saturday, March 10.  On Friday night the College of Wooster Fighting Scots (27-3) will take on the John Carroll Blue Streaks (21-9) at 6 p.m. and the Cardinals (24-5) will face off against the SUNY Brockport Golden Eagles (24-5) at 8 p.m.  The winner of each game will play Saturday night at 7 p.m..

Tickets are general admission at the following prices:
$7 for adults
$4 for senior citizens/students with ID/children
Children under 2 are free

Presale tickets will be available Tuesday, March 6 from 12 p.m. – 3 p.m. and Wednesday, March 7 from 12 p.m. – 3 p.m. in the Athletic Department main office in the Student Life Center.  Presale tickets are for Friday night only, and separate tickets must be purchased for the 6 p.m. and 8 p.m. games. Tickets for Saturday's games will go on sale Saturday night at 6 p.m.    phone nbr:  585-385-8312 Coach McCabe (facility booker)  or  585-385-5223
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 05, 2007, 05:40:35 PM
what provisions have they made to make sure that the ohio teams fans get tickets?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 05:45:45 PM
The NCAA requires that tickets be allocated to each participating team.  In a normal four-team one-session scenario, the home team gets half of the tickets, and each of the other three get one-third.  Since this is going to be a split session, with separate tickets for each game Friday, it's not clear to me what the distribution will be.  It's up to Brockport and the Ohio teams to decide what they want to do about their ticket allocations.

Here's what Wooster is doing, FYI:
Quote from: Wooster websiteNCAA Div. III Tournament Ticket Information: There will be a split session of Friday's games at St. John Fisher in Rochester, N.Y. Wooster has been allotted 450 tickets and they will be on sale at the Physical Education Center Wednesday from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. and 4 p.m. to 6 p.m., and Thursday from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m.

Here's what JCU is doing:
Quote from: JCU websiteA limited number of tickets allotted to John Carroll for Friday night's game against Wooster will be sold at John Carroll beginning on Wednesday, March 7, from 12p - 7p and on Thursday, March 8, from 10a - 12a (or until sold out) at the DeCarlo Varsity Center entrance. Tickets are $7 for adults, $4 for senior citizens/students with ID/children. Children under 2 are free

Please note that Friday's games are being treated as a split session, meaning soon after the John Carroll-Wooster game has concluded, the gym will be cleared so that ticket holders for the second game between St. John Fisher and Brockport State can be seated.

The JCU vs. Wooster game will not be televised -- but will be carried on three separate /audio broadcasts
Those three broadcasts are JCU's student station (http://www.jcu.edu/studentl/Athletics/varsity/news/tournament_central_ncaambk07.htm), WQKT/Wooster (http://www.wooster.edu/interactive/), and D3hoops.com (http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 05, 2007, 06:14:13 PM
do you wooster and jc fans plan on leaving after your session?


Anyway it should be a good matchup friday in both games. But i'm going to have to pick jc and fisher to come out of friday.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: b4the3isme on March 05, 2007, 06:16:32 PM
pg04 - I met no disrespect to the SUNYAC with my post. In fact on 2/28 I said that Platts might spoil the UR-SJF party everyone suspected was going to happen.  The games played out as they would be expected too. The ECAC played out exactly according to seed in fact.  That being said I think SJF vs B-port will be a great game with B-port winning in a squeaker.  Think Wooster will be the opponent after beating J Carrol by 7-10pts.  My bracket has Wooster losing to UW-Stevens in the Championship game so though my heart will wish for a different outcome, my head leads me in another direction.  I also think that the NESAC is down this season and if Amherst comes out of the other bracket they will be more vunerable than they have been in the past.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 05, 2007, 06:19:00 PM
first off you will never here me complain about Fisher's ammenities, the fact is while the gym is small it is a very fun place to play and if the crowd is active it is an increidble place to watch a game...secondly parking is not an issue, I wll help out Ohio fans later in the week, probably wednesday....with resturants and the school map and places where you should look to park...the fact of the matter is that the fisher campus is VERY VERY Small, and the parking lots are no more than a quater mile or so from the gym and that is if they have you parking out in the park n ride or the A Lot...


and again look at other schools that host Amherst has a very small gym with hard wood bleachers and very little parking....so does wooster deserve to host maybe they do, maybe they don't who knows, we really never know what the NCAA is smoking, so instead of everyone bashing fisher I say lets enjoy being in the sweet 16 and make this the best damn sectional in the country...

and by the way yes you should get there early, but that was the same last year with Amherst, we had proably 50 fisher fans sitting outside of their gym waiting for tickets on saturday afternoon
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ricco1 on March 05, 2007, 06:34:03 PM
Fisher fans are the best. The gym is small but you couldn't ask for a better advantage. Their loud,intiminating and scare the hell out of the other  teams.GO FISHER
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 07:04:46 PM
Quote from: ksc218 on March 05, 2007, 06:14:13 PM
do you wooster and jc fans plan on leaving after your session?

They're going to clear the gym after the Wooster/JCU game Friday, so yes, we'll all leave after the game.  There's a separate ticket required for the BPort/Fisher game, and those will not be pre-sold here in Ohio.

Fans of the winning team will of course stay for the Saturday game, and so will some of the fans of the losing team; we're really into D3 basketball in Ohio!  ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 07:08:06 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 05, 2007, 02:01:49 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 05, 2007, 01:10:39 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 01:06:17 PM
Fanbase is not one of the hosting criteria.

This is a classic PC smackdown.  Has to go on your top ten list.


You might want to add this as well:

Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 01:20:33 PM
Fanbase is one of the criteria, although it is a low priority and may never actually come into play:

Quote from: Men's Championship Handbook, page 7, emphasis addedSite Selection
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility.


That's cool and all but ask Illinois Wesleyan whether its massive fan base helped it host the sectional in 2003. Ask Hope whether it helped it get a home game or even a split session last week.

I mean, the book also says the committee can reshuffle pairings at the Final Four but that's never happened either.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 05, 2007, 07:41:18 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 05, 2007, 06:19:00 PM
first off you will never here me complain about Fisher's ammenities, the fact is while the gym is small it is a very fun place to play and if the crowd is active it is an increidble place to watch a game...secondly parking is not an issue, I wll help out Ohio fans later in the week, probably wednesday....with resturants and the school map and places where you should look to park...the fact of the matter is that the fisher campus is VERY VERY Small, and the parking lots are no more than a quater mile or so from the gym and that is if they have you parking out in the park n ride or the A Lot...


and again look at other schools that host Amherst has a very small gym with hard wood bleachers and very little parking....so does wooster deserve to host maybe they do, maybe they don't who knows, we really never know what the NCAA is smoking, so instead of everyone bashing fisher I say lets enjoy being in the sweet 16 and make this the best damn sectional in the country...

and by the way yes you should get there early, but that was the same last year with Amherst, we had proably 50 fisher fans sitting outside of their gym waiting for tickets on saturday afternoon

Agreed Superman...not to mention that it is a good thing for all of the upstate teams that a NY team is hosting a regional. While I am sure that this not the first time it has happened, it gives a little credibility to the teams/leagues in the upstate area. Think of what it could do for the respect of the region if Fisher or Brockport could beat Wooster or John Carroll and get into the final four. Somebody besides U of R in the Final four could do a lot of good for all the teams in the area.

Fisher can be/is a fun place to watch a game if the crowd is into the game. When the students are there and loud as they tend to be it is a lot of fun. At least it is from the persctive of an old Fisher student and current Fisher Fan. I think they will do a better job than people are giving them credit for. Either way it is good for the E8 and all of upstate.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 05, 2007, 07:49:39 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on March 05, 2007, 07:41:18 PM
Fisher can be/is a fun place to watch a game if the crowd is into the game. When the students are there and loud as they tend to be it is a lot of fun. At least it is from the persctive of an old Fisher student and current Fisher Fan. I think they will do a better job than people are giving them credit for. Either way it is good for the E8 and all of upstate.

not to mention from the perspective of the refs. most of our players seem to be buddy buddy with the refs and we never yell at them outside of saying "i respectfully disagree with your decision mr official" and usually they'll talk to us if we make the right comments and they're in the right mood.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 05, 2007, 09:02:22 PM
Quote from: ksc218 on March 05, 2007, 07:49:39 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on March 05, 2007, 07:41:18 PM
Fisher can be/is a fun place to watch a game if the crowd is into the game. When the students are there and loud as they tend to be it is a lot of fun. At least it is from the persctive of an old Fisher student and current Fisher Fan. I think they will do a better job than people are giving them credit for. Either way it is good for the E8 and all of upstate.

not to mention from the perspective of the refs. most of our players seem to be buddy buddy with the refs and we never yell at them outside of saying "i respectfully disagree with your decision mr official" and usually they'll talk to us if we make the right comments and they're in the right mood.

At first I thought this was a tongue-in-cheek joke, but then I thought about it, and yeah... I don't remember the Fisher players whining at all this season.  Complete reversal from some of the recent versions of the Cards (Jeff Sidney was completely obnoxious).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 05, 2007, 09:11:58 PM
Quote from: bamm on March 05, 2007, 09:02:22 PM
Quote from: ksc218 on March 05, 2007, 07:49:39 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on March 05, 2007, 07:41:18 PM
Fisher can be/is a fun place to watch a game if the crowd is into the game. When the students are there and loud as they tend to be it is a lot of fun. At least it is from the persctive of an old Fisher student and current Fisher Fan. I think they will do a better job than people are giving them credit for. Either way it is good for the E8 and all of upstate.

not to mention from the perspective of the refs. most of our players seem to be buddy buddy with the refs and we never yell at them outside of saying "i respectfully disagree with your decision mr official" and usually they'll talk to us if we make the right comments and they're in the right mood.

At first I thought this was a tongue-in-cheek joke, but then I thought about it, and yeah... I don't remember the Fisher players whining at all this season.  Complete reversal from some of the recent versions of the Cards (Jeff Sidney was completely obnoxious).

Not much need to complain too much...the coach takes care of that for them...a little joke, I think we all know I am a big Kornaker fan.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 05, 2007, 09:16:40 PM
I know that while I was there last year the refs would have discussions with the crazies everyonce in a while...  I am intrested to see where they place each teams contigent of fans... for the students of wooster and JCU I hope they put you on the floor...but if it's just parents then prepared to be bored...the floor seats in the varsity gym are litterly on the floor therefore you pack a lot of people in their standing, you can't sit when they pack it, but it is a really fun place to watch a game from
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 05, 2007, 10:14:23 PM
what they will do is put jc and wooster on opposing top level seating as well as fisher and brockport. then they will put put wooster and jc on the left or right of the floor and again the same for fisher and brockport
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: diehardfan on March 05, 2007, 11:21:56 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 07:08:06 PM
I mean, the book also says the committee can reshuffle pairings at the Final Four but that's never happened either.
Woah! Neato! :o You learn something new every day.... :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 08:46:44 AM
I imagine that whoever wins between Wooster and JCU, some of their fans will probably want to stick around and watch the Fisher/Brockport game. 
I will definitely stick around to watch it, unless of course Wooster happens to fall to John Carroll. 
So that's what...14 dollars for an evening of basketball??
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 06, 2007, 09:13:49 AM
Quote from: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 08:46:44 AM
14 dollars for an evening of basketball??

It is pretty hard to beat that.  I have been offered a few sets of ACC Tourney tickets this week since the tournament is in Tampa.  Over a grand per seat for the week.  I would probably pay it, if I had it, but you can't beat those two games in Rochester for $14.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woosterbooster on March 06, 2007, 10:02:16 AM
The parking lots are a quarter mile from the gym?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 06, 2007, 10:23:57 AM
Quote from: Wooster Booster on March 06, 2007, 10:02:16 AM
The parking lots are a quarter mile from the gym?

Nothing wrong with a brisk walk. Think of it as a preemptive burning of the calories you're going to eat later that evening when you have a Garbage Plate at Tahou's...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 06, 2007, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on March 06, 2007, 10:23:57 AM
Quote from: Wooster Booster on March 06, 2007, 10:02:16 AM
The parking lots are a quarter mile from the gym?

Nothing wrong with a brisk walk. Think of it as a preemptive burning of the calories you're going to eat later that evening when you have a Garbage Plate at Tahou's...

haha... now gf15...you and i both know a 1/4 mile walk won't even scratch the surface of making up for eating a garbage plate... but don't let that hold you back people who have never had one... its one of the best things i've ever eaten
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 06, 2007, 11:37:42 AM
I am jonzin for a "real" garbage plate!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 06, 2007, 11:44:19 AM
no the farthest parking lots are 1/4 mile from the gym there are a lot of close parking spots that you'll probably be able to park
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 06, 2007, 11:49:23 AM
ok i've been knocking the parking situation which obviously isn't great...but supermans right 1/4 mile isn't bad... i'm a big indians fan and haha...getting to a game from underneath towercity is a hike! and everyone does it.

and yes its been over a week since i've had a plate and the word jonzin describes it very well
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 06, 2007, 11:51:39 AM
now about the seating at fisher... i don't know how they calculated ticket numbers... but hears my thoughts of what they should do

fisher just got new seats and a new scorers table setup and it is nice...really nice but if they want to pack more people into that gym i think they will have to sit the players on the bottom row of the bleachers like they used to and maybe line up the seats on the baselines? gotta maximize the space.  Cheerleaders don't need to be there  :) they dont' say much anyhow
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on March 06, 2007, 12:07:05 PM
I feel bad for the 2 teams from ohio that will play at 6 pm friday. I really cant see how there will be more than a couple hundred people in the stands. As a Brockport fan i would love to go to both games and settle in. The way they are running it and clearing the gym after the first game makes it nearly impossible to do that. If i decide to watch the whole first game i will get kicked out of the gym and put to the end of the line to enter the 2nd game. As a basketball fan who wouldnt want to watch both games so that you can size up the competition. If you want to get good seats for the 8 pm game you cant afford to go to the first game. My opinion is that this is just a joke and the this all could have been avoided if the games were in Bport. Seeding is only the third criteria so the fact that fisher is the 1 and bport the 2 really is no big deal. Both teams are 24-5 and split during the reg season, bport won at fisher and fisher won on a neutral court. A few years back at bport during the sweet 16 you bought one ticket got your seat and enjoyed 2 great bball games. This garbage that is going to take place fri night is a joke, i dont think this was really thought out to well. I would guess that the line to get in the fisher- bport game will start to form around 6pm? It makes no sense to buy a ticket to the 1st game and have to leave half way through the first half to get in line does it? Oh well it will be nice sat night watching Brockport play at fisher with no fisher fans in the house!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 12:15:47 PM
Quote from: bports on March 06, 2007, 12:07:05 PM
I feel bad for the 2 teams from ohio that will play at 6 pm friday. I really cant see how there will be more than a couple hundred people in the stands.

I think you'll be mistaken.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: formerbant10 on March 06, 2007, 12:30:29 PM
I'm going with Pat on this one.

Fisher isn't selling tickets to the Wooster game because they sent all the tickets out to Ohio and don't expect any back. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 12:40:18 PM
If Brockport wanted to host, it should have won the SUNYAC.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 12:55:57 PM
Agreed with Pat.  Although it does stink for the fans that it will be rather tough to get in and especially tough to watch both games, the ncaa tourny isnt about the fans, it is about the team.  Yes Fisher should build a new larger gym, but not ever being able to host because some fans won't be able to get in would be a shame.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 06, 2007, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 12:40:18 PM
If Brockport wanted to host, it should have won the SUNYAC.
from the mouth of g-d himself...hosting secitonals is supposed to be an award for a great regular and postseason...Fisher won the E8 and the E8 tourny and brockport dropped the ball. so be happy that it is in Rochester and you don't have to drive to Ohio to go see brockport lose
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 06, 2007, 01:02:33 PM
oucheeeee.
PC coming up with the zinger!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on March 06, 2007, 01:33:58 PM
If you want to call dropping the ball winning 14 straight games and losing in the sunyac final when your best defender and starting guard shawn harris couldnt play, i guess thats what bport did. I have my tix for fridays game so i could really care less but wouldnt it be nice to be able to watch both games. Can anyone give me an example of another sectional clearing the gym after the first game? I might be wrong but i doubt that is happening, the bottom line is the gym is horrible and these games should not be played there. Not to mention having the game in bport would shave about 40 minutes off the 2 ohio teams trip. On a side note lets do a little over under for fri nights 2nd game. How many asst coaches will be sitting on fishers bench? The back number on this will be set at 8. For the record i will take the over.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 06, 2007, 01:37:11 PM
bports,
can we give up the hosting crap and get to the actual game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 01:40:44 PM
Bports whats the over/under on Whitmore actually shaking hands with Fisher after getting beat?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 06, 2007, 01:45:23 PM
Bport, what happened in '02 when Brockport hosted the sectional?  I don't remember them clearing out after the 1st game. All I remember was spectators buying tickets for Saturdays game after Brockport won Friday night. That was an unbelieveable weekend. I still haven't forgot it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 06, 2007, 01:47:01 PM
I know its early, but my prediction will be another face pace, high tempo game from both teams. The score will either be in the 80's-90's.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: bports on March 06, 2007, 01:33:58 PM
Can anyone give me an example of another sectional clearing the gym after the first game?

UW-Stevens Point's sectional is a split session.
Lawrence's sectional last year was a split session.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 06, 2007, 01:53:55 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 06, 2007, 01:37:11 PM
bports,
can we give up the hosting crap and get to the actual game?

Come on FA91, if we are still talking about it that must be evidence that this is a serious topic in need of further excruciating debate.  In fact, after listening to the Fisher faithful whine about not hosting a few years ago, and now the 'Port and Wooster faithful complaining this year, it occurs to me that Ithaca has been slighted.  Why aren't WE hosting it at the Bulb?  Or, for that matter, why aren't the games being played at Butterfield Stadium?  Show me where, in the criteria, it says you have to actually be playing in the Regional to host it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 01:58:55 PM
"First, second-round and sectional competition will be conducted on the campuses of the participating institutions. The semifinals and finals will be conducted at the Salem Civic Center, Salem, Virginia."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 06, 2007, 02:04:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 01:58:55 PM
"First, second-round and sectional competition will be conducted on the campuses of the participating institutions. The semifinals and finals will be conducted at the Salem Civic Center, Salem, Virginia."

Well then I think that rule unfairly discriminates against the teams who weren't good enough to make the Championship Rounds.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 06, 2007, 02:05:56 PM
Yeah seeing Whitmore on the opposing bench (ex-cardinal) will be interesting. I'm sure he would like to see nothing more than knocking us out. Its not like he's never been in a sweet 16 game before. Their assistant coach Greg Dunne(ex-nazareth, great shooter) would as well. Also, he is such a whinner during the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 06, 2007, 02:16:01 PM
I just got an email saying the games will be split sessions. Fisher has already sold half their allotment.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 06, 2007, 02:21:08 PM
Mr. Chair- +k for you my humorous friend!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 06, 2007, 02:22:54 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 06, 2007, 02:21:08 PM
Mr. Chair- +k for you my humorous friend!

Right back at you FA91.  And a little +k for PC for playing along as well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 06, 2007, 02:30:01 PM
Anyone out there be available to pick up 3 tickets for me for Friday nights game? ( 1 ticket for the 1st game and 2 tickets for the second game) today by 3 or tom. by 3. Send me an e-mail and we can discuss. Thanks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: David Collinge on March 06, 2007, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: bports on March 06, 2007, 01:33:58 PM
Can anyone give me an example of another sectional clearing the gym after the first game?

UW-Stevens Point's sectional is a split session.
Lawrence's sectional last year was a split session.
So was Albion's in 2005.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 06, 2007, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2007, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: bports on March 06, 2007, 01:33:58 PM
Can anyone give me an example of another sectional clearing the gym after the first game?

UW-Stevens Point's sectional is a split session.
Lawrence's sectional last year was a split session.
So was Albion's in 2005.

Just out of curiosity, who gets the ticket money from NCAA Tournament Games?  I am assuming it is the NCAA but not sure.  If it is the host school, then I suppose they have an incentive to split the games into two events.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 06, 2007, 02:42:00 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 06, 2007, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2007, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: bports on March 06, 2007, 01:33:58 PM
Can anyone give me an example of another sectional clearing the gym after the first game?

UW-Stevens Point's sectional is a split session.
Lawrence's sectional last year was a split session.
So was Albion's in 2005.

Just out of curiosity, who gets the ticket money from NCAA Tournament Games?  I am assuming it is the NCAA but not sure.  If it is the host school, then I suppose they have an incentive to split the games into two events.

well you have to assume the school gets a piece if only to be able to cover the costs of hosting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 06, 2007, 03:00:51 PM
Quote from: ksc218 on March 06, 2007, 02:42:00 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 06, 2007, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2007, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: bports on March 06, 2007, 01:33:58 PM
Can anyone give me an example of another sectional clearing the gym after the first game?

UW-Stevens Point's sectional is a split session.
Lawrence's sectional last year was a split session.
So was Albion's in 2005.

Just out of curiosity, who gets the ticket money from NCAA Tournament Games?  I am assuming it is the NCAA but not sure.  If it is the host school, then I suppose they have an incentive to split the games into two events.

well you have to assume the school gets a piece if only to be able to cover the costs of hosting.

It's possible the NCAA covers the costs of hosting...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 06, 2007, 03:06:33 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 06, 2007, 03:00:51 PM
Quote from: ksc218 on March 06, 2007, 02:42:00 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 06, 2007, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2007, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: bports on March 06, 2007, 01:33:58 PM
Can anyone give me an example of another sectional clearing the gym after the first game?

UW-Stevens Point's sectional is a split session.
Lawrence's sectional last year was a split session.
So was Albion's in 2005.

Just out of curiosity, who gets the ticket money from NCAA Tournament Games?  I am assuming it is the NCAA but not sure.  If it is the host school, then I suppose they have an incentive to split the games into two events.

well you have to assume the school gets a piece if only to be able to cover the costs of hosting.

It's possible the NCAA covers the costs of hosting...

I think we're saying the same thing here. If the host school gave the NCAA the ticket money and the NCAA covered hosting costs its essentially the same thing as the host school keeping the needed money, unless of course the school didn't make enough in ticket sales.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: David Collinge on March 06, 2007, 03:10:07 PM
Split sessions are an exception to the one-day, one-session rule; the exception has to be granted by the men's committee.  I'd guess you have to have substantial justification, like "our gym is too small for fans of four teams" (Fisher, Albion) or "there's a gazillion Hope fans headed our way" (Stevens Point), to get the split session approved.

The Handbook specifies "minimum" ticket prices ($7 adult, $4 senior/student), and that ticket prices must be set by the tournament manager (a local) in consultation with a member of the men's committee.  I'd gather from that that the NCAA keeps some or all of that first $7 with the hosts getting their costs covered plus whatever they are allowed to charge above the minima.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 06, 2007, 03:16:46 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2007, 03:10:07 PM
Split sessions are an exception to the one-day, one-session rule; the exception has to be granted by the men's committee.  I'd guess you have to have substantial justification, like "our gym is too small for fans of four teams" (Fisher, Albion) or "there's a gazillion Hope fans headed our way" (Stevens Point), to get the split session approved.

The Handbook specifies "minimum" ticket prices ($7 adult, $4 senior/student), and that ticket prices must be set by the tournament manager (a local) in consultation with a member of the men's committee.  I'd gather from that that the NCAA keeps some or all of that first $7 with the hosts getting their costs covered plus whatever they are allowed to charge above the minima.

That is a better answer to the motivation for a split session.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: SJFF82 on March 06, 2007, 04:31:59 PM
As a fisher alum I am proud (sarcastically) to say that I have never attended a Fisher BB game.  With that said, how in the hell have 'they' decided to host a game at Fisher in the Sweet 16 with so little seating capacity?  Excuse my ignorance, but is there not a neutral location that would be more fan accessible?

By the way...are there tickets available to the general public? 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 04:37:59 PM
SJFF82, THE GAME IS FOR THE PLAYERS NOT FOR THE FANS.  I think the Fisher team would rather play on their home court with less fans, than to play on a neutral court so everyone can be happy. 

Yes tickets are availabe to anyone.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 06, 2007, 04:44:50 PM
Can anyone buy me three tickets for Friday night( 1 for the 6pm game and 2 for the 8 pm game)? I'll obviously pay you back and a little more. If interested send me an e-mail.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cards7580 on March 06, 2007, 05:26:51 PM
"... THE GAME IS FOR THE PLAYERS NOT FOR THE FANS ..."

hmmm, so why do colleges, universities, High Schools all build gyms with 1000's of seats ?  :'(
These games gotta be for someone (other than the players and coaches), otherwise why
not play the games in empty arena's.    No college builds a stadium or arena for "just" it's
players in mind.     I'm sure Syracuse Univ (and the taxpayers of NY state) didn't get the Carrier
dome built for just 100 football and 20 basketball players to stay warm and dry during games.
32,000 plus seats for PAYING customers is why.   

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 05:38:29 PM
I have to agree with FisherDynasty on this one.  Even though I would much rather be playing on a neutral court than at Fisher, I would be extremely upset if I was due to host and they held the tournament at a neutral site.  Think about it...Fisher players play there every day, practice there, they are used to the court.  That's a big advantage...
Plus if the game was at a neutral site, they probably wouldn't get as many people there. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 05:40:44 PM
exactly, If i had to play at RIT or UofR, i mean yeah it would be great to have alot of fans but as far as shooting the ball, I would want to be in the gym i practice everyday.  It makes a huge difference as far as comfortability. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 05:42:09 PM
Quote from: Cards7580 on March 06, 2007, 05:26:51 PM
"... THE GAME IS FOR THE PLAYERS NOT FOR THE FANS ..."

hmmm, so why do colleges, universities, High Schools all build gyms with 1000's of seats ?  :'(
These games gotta be for someone (other than the players and coaches), otherwise why
not play the games in empty arena's.    No college builds a stadium or arena for "just" it's
players in mind.     I'm sure Syracuse Univ (and the taxpayers of NY state) didn't get the Carrier
dome built for just 100 football and 20 basketball players to stay warm and dry during games.
32,000 plus seats for PAYING customers is why.   



Hmm good question.  But you also have to think about how often Fisher and other school's with small gyms actually sell out.  Probably not much during their regular season or even conference tournaments.  Actually, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm betting Fisher hasn't sold out their gym in a long time.  
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: GPT on March 06, 2007, 05:50:34 PM
Fisher sells out the nazareth game womens and mens everyear
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 06:04:42 PM
Hmm okay.  When I looked at the attendance on the box score for the men's and women's game against Nazareth, it was listed as 1000.  I thought Fisher's gym held 1200...perhaps that number was just an estimate.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 06, 2007, 06:09:58 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 04:37:59 PM
THE GAME IS FOR THE PLAYERS NOT FOR THE FANS.

This sounds a lot like "Every game is a game."  FD, is your last name Berra by any chance?  Why can't the game be for both the players and the fans?

Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 05:40:44 PM
exactly, If i had to play at RIT or UofR, i mean yeah it would be great to have alot of fans but as far as shooting the ball, I would want to be in the gym i practice everyday.  It makes a huge difference as far as comfortability. 

You made this argument last week when talking about UR too.  I wonder why you think playing on the rims you practice on is an advantage?  With the exception of the double rims at some public parks, I pretty much shoot it the same on every bucket.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 06, 2007, 06:24:22 PM
Quote from: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 06:04:42 PM
Hmm okay.  When I looked at the attendance on the box score for the men's and women's game against Nazareth, it was listed as 1000.  I thought Fisher's gym held 1200...perhaps that number was just an estimate.

despite what the internet may say go to a Fisher/Naz game some time and you will see how full the gym can get. Whatever the attendance may be listed at, the gym was packed and their was much more than 1000 people there. I have also been to other key conference games that have been sold out in the past. The problem is that those games all took place while school was in session. I believe Fisher is on Spring Break this week, and it may be tough to get the numbers without the students that would love to go, but is not going to make a couple hour trip to see it. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cards7580 on March 06, 2007, 06:25:15 PM
If the only way a team has it's BEST SHOT to  win an NCAA championship is to play every game at home with local referees all the players know, have 80% of the gym filled with "their" fans, and home cooking;  then maybe they shouldn't be in the tournament ?    ;D

Like Chairman Jose says, a rim is a rim.  They are supposed to be 10 feet high and the same size for everybody.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 06, 2007, 06:34:16 PM
Quote from: Cards7580 on March 06, 2007, 06:25:15 PM
Like Chairman Jose says, a rim is a rim.  They are supposed to be 10 feet high and the same size for everybody.

Maybe it really effects some players.  When I was playing it always sounded like an excuse.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 06:39:46 PM
Wow.  I would have to say that playing on your own court, with your own fans, sleeping in your own bed, not having to travel to another place, ride on a bus....that's a HUGE advantage...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 06, 2007, 06:45:12 PM
Quote from: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 06:39:46 PM
Wow.  I would have to say that playing on your own court, with your own fans, sleeping in your own bed, not having to travel to another place, ride on a bus....that's a HUGE advantage...

I didn't mean to imply that I think home teams have no advantage.  I certainly agree that fans and travel, among other things, negatively effect visiting teams.  I am only disputing the argument that the court or the rims has any effect. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: diehardfan on March 06, 2007, 07:09:58 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 06, 2007, 06:09:58 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 04:37:59 PM
THE GAME IS FOR THE PLAYERS NOT FOR THE FANS.
Why can't the game be for both the players and the fans?
The game is for the FANS, and NOT the players! DUH! Think of them minions, dancing for us on their little strings... why else do you think they call it the big dance? ??? :o Just kidding! :D :D :-X

I think you're both right. The game can be for both of us, but it's mostly about the players, so they should be able to play in their own gym if they earned it... even if we don't get to see it. :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 06, 2007, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: Cards7580 on March 06, 2007, 06:25:15 PM
Like Chairman Jose says, a rim is a rim.  They are supposed to be 10 feet high and the same size for everybody.

Finally someone has the guts to say it. +K for you.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 07:31:05 PM
Jose, I guarantee just about everyteam in the country shoots better at home then they do on the road from the field. look up some stats (I dont feel like or have the time to look up numbers to post on here so im not going to). How can you say you dont think the court you play on  matters? yeah blah blah blah the rims are 10 ft hight. However, the space behind the backboard, what is behind the backboard, the lighting, just all around comfortability of playing on your own court helps you shoot better.  Shouldnt be that hard to understand.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 07:32:30 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 07:31:05 PM
Jose, I guarantee just about everyteam in the country shoots better at home then they do on the road from the field. look up some stats (I dont feel like or have the time to look up numbers to post on here so im not going to). How can you say you dont think the court you play on  matters? yeah blah blah blah the rims are 10 ft hight. However, the space behind the backboard, what is behind the backboard, the lighting, just all around comfortability of playing on your own court helps you shoot better.  Shouldnt be that hard to understand.

I completely agree
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: zola on March 06, 2007, 07:33:53 PM
The court, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be...a difference maker.

Old Guy History...As It Was In The Beginning

Remember when 1) only the "big venues had "glass" backboards and how difficult it was to make the transition from the solid boards at our small school gyms, 2) knowing the exact location of the infamous dead spots on the parquet floor in Boston Garden provided the Celtics with years of a "built-in" home court advantage 3) how difficult it was for visiting players new to the unusual sight lines in the cavernous Carrier Dome...ad infinitum.

...Is Now and Ever Shall Be

Shooters have their spots. At home, that translates into shooting from exact spots, from the same board(s) on the floor, seeing the same
sight line(s) and visual field(s)...repetition, repetition, repetition...the rest is as obvious as the preceeding.




Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 07:36:58 PM
Quote from: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 06:39:46 PM
Wow.  I would have to say that playing on your own court, with your own fans, sleeping in your own bed, not having to travel to another place, ride on a bus....that's a HUGE advantage...

Perhaps it's time to trot back out the stat that only 37% of sectional hosts have reached the Final Four in the past x years.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: BobNapoleone on March 06, 2007, 07:39:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 07:36:58 PM
Quote from: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 06:39:46 PM
Wow.  I would have to say that playing on your own court, with your own fans, sleeping in your own bed, not having to travel to another place, ride on a bus....that's a HUGE advantage...

Perhaps it's time to trot back out the stat that only 37% of sectional hosts have reached the Final Four in the past x years.



Pat..where do you find time to keep EVERYBODY on track....thanks for the "reality check"
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 06, 2007, 07:42:37 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 07:31:05 PM
Jose, I guarantee just about everyteam in the country shoots better at home then they do on the road from the field. look up some stats (I dont feel like or have the time to look up numbers to post on here so im not going to). How can you say you dont think the court you play on  matters? yeah blah blah blah the rims are 10 ft hight. However, the space behind the backboard, what is behind the backboard, the lighting, just all around comfortability of playing on your own court helps you shoot better.  Shouldnt be that hard to understand.

I think we would all agree that Cameron Indoor Stadium is the best home court advantage in college hoops.

2006-2007

Duke at Home:  461-994 .464
Duke on the Road: 240-492 .488

In my mind, that is roughly equal.

FD, did you play hoop at Fisher?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 08:14:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 07:36:58 PM
Quote from: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 06:39:46 PM
Wow.  I would have to say that playing on your own court, with your own fans, sleeping in your own bed, not having to travel to another place, ride on a bus....that's a HUGE advantage...

Perhaps it's time to trot back out the stat that only 37% of sectional hosts have reached the Final Four in the past x years.

That's better than 25% though.  Think about it...4 teams at the sectional.  Each team has roughly 25% chance of making it.  37% is a much bigger percentage. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 08:39:18 PM
I was going to say the same thing division3hoops. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cards7580 on March 06, 2007, 08:57:14 PM
WEll, I guess the only "fair" way to handle this deal is to keep giving SJFisher home games in NCAA Rounds 1 and 2 and the Sectionals until they finally make it to the Final 8.  Then they would have something in common with the SUNYAC schools of Brockport, Plattsburgh, Oneonta and Potsdam.    Oh wait, that would mean SJF would need to advance to at least ONE Final Four.  ;D      I know Oneonta and Plattsburgh didn't need a home court advantage get into the final 8.   ;)

One would think that if a school or it's fans want to claim that a Dynasty exists at that school, the school  would "FIRST" need to reach a higher level than most of their opponents.  ;D   I think even the U of R has even reached the Final Four in men's basketball at least twice and won one National Title ;)  

Good thing for SJF that Anthony Williams and Plattsbugh got lucky against U of R or we wouldn't even be talking about small gyms at all  :o      

Gooooooooooo  Brockport !!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 06, 2007, 09:09:26 PM
first off your a Jerk....obviously your team lost and your sore about losing secondly, If I remember right Fisher was in the elite 8 last year and has 12 NCAA apperances...have they made the final 4 yet no, but they have deserved to host the regionals each year and this year for some reason they were given the sectionals, do they deserve it this year, no flat out I don't think Fisher deserved it this year...but on that note it doesn't matter what I or some idiot like you cards thinks...It's the NCAA's decisoin and they felt that Fisher was the best place for this to be held...so if you have a real issue which I think you do...first off seeing a shrink might help and secondly go call Miles Brand and complain to him..
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 08:14:55 PM
That's better than 25% though.  Think about it...4 teams at the sectional. Each team has roughly 25% chance of making it. 37% is a much bigger percentage. 

But this is not necessarily the case. One of the four teams is the best team and has a better chance of making it. Right? And if the best team is often the host, then you'd think it was more than a 37.5% chance.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 09:20:42 PM
someones sounds sour after getting handled in the 2nd round of the tournament.  yah idk what the final 8 your talking about since fisher made it to the elite 8 last year in boston, good one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 06, 2007, 09:22:36 PM
though this conversation is a couple of pages ago the ads from both jc and wooster called today and said that they plan on selling their entire alotment of tickets.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 09:23:29 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 08:14:55 PM
That's better than 25% though.  Think about it...4 teams at the sectional. Each team has roughly 25% chance of making it. 37% is a much bigger percentage. 

But this is not necessarily the case. One of the four teams is the best team and has a better chance of making it. Right? And if the best team is often the host, then you'd think it was more than a 37.5% chance.

Just because they are hosting does not mean they are the best team.  No disrespect at all because I do believe St. John Fisher both did deserve to host a sectional and that they are a good team, but just because they had a higher QoWI does not mean they are the better team.  It's too hard to compare regions.  You could argue Wooster had a much harder season in their region.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 06, 2007, 09:27:01 PM
ok enough of the trash talking... i even stopped talking junk about kornaker +k for me haha
however there is nothing a fan like you are i can say that overrides what happens on the floor cards... plattsburgh is out thanks to a solid fisher showing and thats in the past...get over it. I'm goin to pburgh next year so i have nothing against their team...just fans like you :) 

Also i have my ticket to fridays game already and i would really like to see how they are distinguishing between tickets for the 6 oclock adn the 8 oclock because it says "general admission" "wooster vs john carroll 6pm fisher vs brokport 8pm friday march 9, 2007 6pm and 8pm" nothing letting you know what game it is for and its red just like last weekends tickets... this shall be interesting... are the ones being sold at wooster and jc a different color? please someone let me know...other wise i'm going to 2 games ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 06, 2007, 09:30:46 PM
yeah we discussed this the other day... the qowi is a poor system and someone said that they will be replacing it next year?

also all this talk about fishers gym that i feel guilty for almost starting is nonsense...
fishers gym is really nice, its just really small but that takes nothing away from the quality of the facility the floor is nice, hoops are new, lighting is new scoreboards are new and NICE and they just got new players seating and a scorers table so they arent sitting on the bleachers. Also they just named the court after Bobby Wanzer, great history already in a relatively new facility.

Just because some of us come from highschools whose gyms seat over 2000 people in a farm town doesn't mean we have the right to expect that at the collegiate level, you get what you get if you're unhappy with that, go somewheres else
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 06, 2007, 09:32:00 PM
one last thing in reponse to jose, a rim IS a rim except for those darn double park court rims... those are a different animal all together!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 09:35:12 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 06, 2007, 09:27:01 PM
ok enough of the trash talking... i even stopped talking junk about kornaker +k for me haha
however there is nothing a fan like you are i can say that overrides what happens on the floor cards... plattsburgh is out thanks to a solid fisher showing and thats in the past...get over it. I'm goin to pburgh next year so i have nothing against their team...just fans like you :) 

Also i have my ticket to fridays game already and i would really like to see how they are distinguishing between tickets for the 6 oclock adn the 8 oclock because it says "general admission" "wooster vs john carroll 6pm fisher vs brokport 8pm friday march 9, 2007 6pm and 8pm" nothing letting you know what game it is for and its red just like last weekends tickets... this shall be interesting... are the ones being sold at wooster and jc a different color? please someone let me know...other wise i'm going to 2 games ;D

I have the Wooster ticket and it's yellow.  So that must be how they are distinguishing...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 09:37:02 PM
Darn.  I was thinking the same thing...no way to distinguish...oh well.  Looks like the AD there is smarter than we all thought!!

Wait.  Did you say the players used to sit in the bleachers??  Oh thank goodness they fixed that!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 06, 2007, 09:44:16 PM
haha yes they used to up until mid seasion this year. and thanks for letting me know they are yellow haha i was definitley gonna try to watch both games
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 06, 2007, 09:45:03 PM
oh by the way...i'm gonna take the over on the coaches :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 09:46:00 PM
Quick question for SJF people.  I was on your website looking about tickets for Saturday's game.  It says that tickets for Saturday's game aren't going on sale until 6pm Saturday night for a 7pm game.  Is this true?  They aren't going to be selling tickets after both games on Friday night?  How are they possibly going to deal with selling tickets for a big game only an HOUR before the game starts?  If that's the case, I feel bad for the ticket sellers :-\  That could get ugly...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 06, 2007, 10:02:41 PM
this is normal, because they don't really allow you into the gym before hand...they will probably have multipul people selling like at amherst last year...but you never know
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cards7580 on March 06, 2007, 10:07:11 PM
"...first off your a Jerk....obviously your team lost and your sore about losing secondly, If I remember right Fisher was in the elite 8 last year and has 12 NCAA apperances...have they made the final 4 yet no, but they have deserved to host the regionals each year and this year for some reason they were given the sectionals, do they deserve it this year, no flat out I don't think Fisher deserved it this year...but on that note it doesn't matter what I or some idiot like you cards thinks...It's the NCAA's decisoin and they felt that Fisher was the best place for this to be held...so if you have a real issue which I think you do...first off seeing a shrink might help and secondly go call Miles Brand and complain to him.."

First off, what YOU need to learn my son is to have a freaking sense of humor and to understand when someone is BUSTIN YOU BALLS.  Learn to take a freakin joke.      These are games and sports not life and death.    You all take it so seriously.  Plattsburgh lost to Fisher, great, they weren't supposed to even play Fisher according to many Fisher fans and U of R fans.  You wanna talk about being SOUR LOSERS talk to U of R.   My life doesn't revolve around what 18-22 year olds do.  I don't lose any sleep over Saturday's game.    

By The way if you are not qualified to be a phychiatrist (student) please don't attempt to diagnose anyone from what they type on a sports bulletin board.    It makes you look very immature and far more in need of mental help
than what I have ever needed.  

P.S.  Work on your ability to construct a sentence in English.  
P.S.S.  And if it doesn't matter what You or I think, why is it necessary to personally attack anyone ?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 06, 2007, 10:16:30 PM
Quote from: Cards7580 on March 06, 2007, 10:07:11 PM


First off, what YOU need to learn my son is to have a freaking sense of humor and to understand when someone is BUSTIN YOU BALLS.  Learn to take a freakin joke.      These are games and sports not life and death.    You all take it so seriously.  Plattsburgh lost to Fisher, great, they weren't supposed to even play Fisher according to many Fisher fans and U of R fans.  You wanna talk about being SOUR LOSERS talk to U of R.   My life doesn't revolve around what 18-22 year olds do.  I don't lose any sleep over Saturday's game.    

By The way if you are not qualified to be a phychiatrist (student) please don't attempt to diagnose anyone from what they type on a sports bulletin board.    It makes you look very immature and far more in need of mental help
than what I have ever needed.  

P.S.  Work on your ability to construct a sentence in English.  
P.S.S.  And if it doesn't matter what You or I think, why is it necessary to personally attack anyone ?


first off, I'm not a student anymore...second off you should take your own advice on the jokes and busting balls....Thirdly do I need mental help...well yes I probably do...and Lastly ask FA91 or Jose my english usually sucks...Im no engliz mayjir and you'll get no argument from me on UofR being sour losers but I could take 10-15 of your posts and point out you being sour and I'm sure that everyone else on here would agree with me and if people are agreeing with me then you are definatly wrong because most of the time people do not agree with me
Title: Excuse me !!!!
Post by: Cards7580 on March 06, 2007, 10:29:14 PM
"...but I could take 10-15 of your posts and point out you being sour and I'm sure that everyone else on here would agree with me and if people are agreeing with me then you are definatly wrong because most of the time people do not agree with me..."

Go ahead waste more time doing research.  Who cares who agrees with who ?   Last I checked everyone in this country is free to express themselves (opinions).   You are FREE not to listen or read.   :P


Anyways    Go Brockport   .....     not because I hate or despise Fisher, but because I support my conference.

And while you are doing research about my sour posts, find a post where I trash SJF players or coaches or
their floor, seats, or scoreboard.   Because, if you do, I want to apologise to them for being so insensitive.   
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 10:32:39 PM
Quote from: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 09:23:29 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 08:14:55 PM
That's better than 25% though.  Think about it...4 teams at the sectional. Each team has roughly 25% chance of making it. 37% is a much bigger percentage. 

But this is not necessarily the case. One of the four teams is the best team and has a better chance of making it. Right? And if the best team is often the host, then you'd think it was more than a 37.5% chance.

Just because they are hosting does not mean they are the best team.  No disrespect at all because I do believe St. John Fisher both did deserve to host a sectional and that they are a good team, but just because they had a higher QoWI does not mean they are the better team.  It's too hard to compare regions.  You could argue Wooster had a much harder season in their region.

Why don't you read what I said before disputing what you think I said?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 06, 2007, 10:36:26 PM
ok I guess I take it personally when someone bashes my school period because I absolutly loved the school while I was there and I miss being there...It was the best 3 years of my life and much of that was spent at the athletic events...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 10:49:03 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 10:32:39 PM
Quote from: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 09:23:29 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 08:14:55 PM
That's better than 25% though.  Think about it...4 teams at the sectional. Each team has roughly 25% chance of making it. 37% is a much bigger percentage. 

But this is not necessarily the case. One of the four teams is the best team and has a better chance of making it. Right? And if the best team is often the host, then you'd think it was more than a 37.5% chance.

Just because they are hosting does not mean they are the best team.  No disrespect at all because I do believe St. John Fisher both did deserve to host a sectional and that they are a good team, but just because they had a higher QoWI does not mean they are the better team.  It's too hard to compare regions.  You could argue Wooster had a much harder season in their region.

Why don't you read what I said before disputing what you think I said?

OUCH :-\
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 11:00:56 PM
Sorry -- I just don't like people arguing about things I didn't say.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 06, 2007, 11:24:06 PM
I guess what I would say about home court advantage is this:
When I was completing my poll on d3hoops...which I somehow am in 9th place for??  How did that happen???
Anyway, I most of the time gave the "hosting team" the win...simply because they were hosting.  That factored into most of my decisions...and I didn't do that bad at picking the teams.  Unless my counting is wrong, which I'm sure it is because I did this fast,  19 teams that played at home won, 10 that played at home lost. 
I don't doubt you, Pat, saying that the best team usually hosts, all I was getting at was one of the variables to explain the variance between the 25% and 37.5% is that the winning team played at home.  I'm sure a significant amount of the variance is attributed to them being the best team, but I was just trying to say that home court advantage plays its role."
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 07, 2007, 01:22:58 AM
I'm late jumping into the conversation, but I'm on Jose's side: The rims are 10 feet high everywhere you play. You can adjust to rims in warm-ups. If you really have issues with the rims, just hit the net and you won't have to worry about them. Or, in the alternative, play good enough ball where you can shoot layups all night. That way, the rims won't really come into play. God, we have some stupid conversations on this board.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 07, 2007, 01:47:55 AM
I agree that a rim is a rim is a rim...but on that note I would rather play with my own rims than your rims...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 07, 2007, 01:57:38 AM
well since we got that all cleared up... i'd prefer to play with a 50 gallon drum as my basket :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2007, 08:02:51 AM
super- looks like you stirred up quite a ruckus!!!

Guys- lets get back to the x's and o's please.
this hosting crap is old!

Keystone- have fun in siberia and cards7580- stop crying and take your dollies and go play with someone else.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2007, 08:27:55 AM
really though- keystone-you are transferring? why?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 07, 2007, 08:33:49 AM
because i go to mcc...and can't afford fisher :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2007, 08:38:19 AM
gotcha
get your parka!! ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 07, 2007, 08:46:21 AM
gb15, didnt you say numerous times during the season that teams have a hard time shooting in the 'Bulb'?


On to the game: i really wanted to break down both Fisher and Bport and see who would come out on top player vs player, but i dont think im going to because playing against bport isn't like playing against other teams.  You basically play against their pressure and intensity instead of the players individually, that is why i think the bport team can play with a ton of teams left but also can lose to a ton of teams that can handle the pressure.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2007, 08:51:52 AM
fisherdyn- thanks for getting this back to the "games"!
I agree that Fisher best not get into a shootout with bport- they would be spent at half!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 07, 2007, 09:03:41 AM
This is an interesting matchup...bport won at fisher for the first game of the season and mid season during the chase fisher redeemed that loss on a neutral court.


And yes i will have to invest in a parka most likely fa91 haha...but i just refused to go to bport or oswego and pburgh offers what i'm taking, also most of their students are transfers... no offense to anyone who attends port of oswego, you'll just never see my name in their systems.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2007, 09:05:09 AM
keystone-
sounds good- good luck!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 07, 2007, 09:12:07 AM
I had to do it, although these match ups have little impact on the game since bport will be pressing and fishers baskets will likely be uncontested layups so can't pin point who scores on who. Also, the players from both team are very different and do different things, they're arent many similiarities between the too so the comparisons are necessary who is better at what, just if i had to chose one of the players this is who itd be.


Sherod Harris - 5'9    Vs. Matt Newman 6'2    - Sherod Harris (bport)
Micah wilkes - 5'10      Vs Dan Mueller 5'11    -   Dan Mueller  (Fisher)
Shawn Harris - 5'11     Vs Chris Baltz 6'3        -   Baltz (Fishter)
Brandon Williams - 6'2 Vs Justin Beigal 6'5   -   Even(edge to williams Bport)
Cantrel Smith - 6'7     Vs Dan Mcsweeney 6'6  -  Mcsweeney (Fisher

Key reserves
Maldano 6'5 vs Adrian Fenyn 6'5  - Maldano (Bport) (if adrian plays better it will be huge)
Poles 5'11 vs  Isiah Smalt 6'5 - not a match up so again huge whoever steps up


I'll take Fisher +3 in hoping the ref's call the game tight.



Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2007, 09:18:47 AM
if fisher can keep a slower pace and avoid giving up big three's they should win...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 07, 2007, 10:13:01 AM
I know Fisher is playing well right now, and you Fisher guys are pretty confident.

But I think you should be reminded that before the SUNYAC final Brockport had won 14 in a row.  They are scorching hot as well.  They just finished dismantling Saint Lawrence in the second half, at SLU.  They beat Fisher at Fisher this season. 

If Brockport plays well, it will take Fisher's A+ game to beat them.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2007, 10:20:46 AM
Understood.
Yet, pace and home court may play a big factor in this one!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 07, 2007, 11:12:32 AM
I'm not sure if i call it confident saying Fisher +3 if the refs call the game tight.  I think Bport is very good and very talented, probably more so then Fisher.  However i cant see them shooting as good as they did against Fisher the first time, they shot the lights out, I think they would have beaten anyone that night.  If they shoot like that again, they will win no doubt in my mind. A team with that much quickness and now has some size who can shoot the ball very good will be tough to beat for anyone.  Im a little nervous to see which Fisher team will show, the team that I saw the past 4-5 games or a team that i saw in the middle of the season.  Having 2 freshmen its really hard to tell.  Sometimes freshmen come out and play out of their minds as if it was just another game and others fold under the big game atmosphere.  So far so good, but we'll see, bports pressure is unreal.  Should be a great game, I think whichever teams shoots better from the outside will win.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 07, 2007, 11:17:54 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 07, 2007, 08:46:21 AM
gb15, didnt you say numerous times during the season that teams have a hard time shooting in the 'Bulb'?


On to the game: i really wanted to break down both Fisher and Bport and see who would come out on top player vs player, but i dont think im going to because playing against bport isn't like playing against other teams.  You basically play against their pressure and intensity instead of the players individually, that is why i think the bport team can play with a ton of teams left but also can lose to a ton of teams that can handle the pressure.

No, I didn't. Not once. Good luck finding one comment that I made about teams shooting at the Bulb.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2007, 11:23:02 AM
come on boys-play nice
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 07, 2007, 11:24:28 AM
I'm not looking back dont really care that much, but you did say playing in the bulb maybe not directly shooting. You said atleast one of the teams has a tough time shooting/playing there, cant remember which team i think Utica/Naz/RIT cant remember. Either way dont really care. lets stay on the topic of the game, gobombers give your analysis as much as we argue, your game analysis is usually pretty solid.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 07, 2007, 11:58:26 AM
It would take too long to go back and look so I don't have the numbers here but I have to ask...

FisherDynasty,

Has there been a Fisher game this year where this hasn't been your prediction

"I'll take Fisher +(insert #)"


Just wondering.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 07, 2007, 12:28:49 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on March 07, 2007, 11:17:54 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 07, 2007, 08:46:21 AM
gb15, didnt you say numerous times during the season that teams have a hard time shooting in the 'Bulb'?


On to the game: i really wanted to break down both Fisher and Bport and see who would come out on top player vs player, but i dont think im going to because playing against bport isn't like playing against other teams.  You basically play against their pressure and intensity instead of the players individually, that is why i think the bport team can play with a ton of teams left but also can lose to a ton of teams that can handle the pressure.

No, I didn't. Not once. Good luck finding one comment that I made about teams shooting at the Bulb.

Just to be the a-hole here  ::) :P   I do remember a sarcastic and hilarious post about how the tournament should be hosted at the Bulb and asking PC why a team that didnt make the tourney couldnt host it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2007, 12:31:07 PM
that was mr. chair jose, budcrew.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 07, 2007, 01:06:00 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 07, 2007, 11:24:28 AM
I'm not looking back dont really care that much, but you did say playing in the bulb maybe not directly shooting. You said atleast one of the teams has a tough time shooting/playing there, cant remember which team i think Utica/Naz/RIT cant remember. Either way dont really care. lets stay on the topic of the game, gobombers give your analysis as much as we argue, your game analysis is usually pretty solid.

I don't think there will be much novel game analysis as the teams have played each other twice now. I think it comes down to whether Fisher can handle the press and not give Brockport TOO MANY easy baskets. Inevitably, Fisher will turn it over and Brockport will get some layups off their press. The key for Fisher is to limit those mistakes. If a half court game predominates, Fisher has a great advantage. If the game turns into a helter skelter affair, I'd favor Brockport. Fisher will have to punish Brockport's press by getting easy hoops and three's in transition. One weakness of the press is that when it's beaten, the defense has to scramble to match up and that will leave open shooters on the outside; if Fisher shoots the 3's like they did last weekend, Brockport will be in a world of trouble.

I think both teams will have their moments during this game. I think there will be big momentum shifts and I honestly would not be surprised if both teams hold double-digit leads at some point in the game. As much as I hate to do it (yeah yeah conference loyalty, but don't think Michigan fans ever root for Ohio State), I think Fisher wins this game. I think when a team runs a gimmicky defense like a full-court press, good teams get better and better each time they play against it. I don't think Fisher will make too many mistakes the third time around. Brockport is a better team now than they were in either of the first two matchups, but so is Fisher, and on Fisher's court, I think the Cardinals take the game.

Final Score prediction:

Brockport  84
Fisher       90
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 07, 2007, 01:07:41 PM
TigerFan look back a few pages, you'll see my elite game Wooster over Fisher +7.  nice try.


Gb15, great analysis, i think you hit it right on the nose.  Should be an excellent game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2007, 01:17:27 PM
well said gb15!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 07, 2007, 01:33:59 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2007, 12:31:07 PM
that was mr. chair jose, budcrew.


Aah... figures i would screw that one up.... i knew it was one of the Ithaca guys.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 07, 2007, 01:49:43 PM
no worries!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 07, 2007, 02:22:30 PM
anyone from wooster or jc have the ability to snag 4 or 5 extra tickets in exchange for the equivalent amount of fisher bport tickets?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 07, 2007, 02:28:12 PM
ha 4 or 5 extra tickets to this game...thats a joke right
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: tigerfan2 on March 07, 2007, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 07, 2007, 01:07:41 PM
TigerFan look back a few pages, you'll see my elite game Wooster over Fisher +7.  nice try.

Ok, so you picked them to lose in the Elite 8, I guess I missed that one. Did you ever pick them to lose a game up to that point? I can't recall that's why I'm asking. It plays into a comment awhile back about FA91 and Superman57 being the only rational SJF posters.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 07, 2007, 02:59:59 PM
The only game i predicted them to lose in was against UofR in the chase tourny and Utica over Fisher at Utica. Besides that I had fisher in everygame since they really didnt play any good teams better then them.  I was wrong on the RIT allthough did mention itd be tough to beat a team 3 times before gettin criticised about the third game B.S., alfred which was a major upset, and then bport which was the first game who knew how good bport was going to be after losing there top 3 scorers.  But yah your right i havnt picked fisher to lose much during the year and probably ever wont since they win and are the favorites in almost all their games with a few exceptions.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 07, 2007, 03:20:57 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 07, 2007, 02:28:12 PM
ha 4 or 5 extra tickets to this game...thats a joke right

haha i knew there wouldn't be... but i promised someone i'd ask
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: David Collinge on March 07, 2007, 05:49:36 PM
Here's an extremely Wooster-centric sectional preview from the Wooster website:
Wooster Seeking "Final Four" Berth This Weekend in Rochester, N.Y. (http://athletics.wooster.edu/mb/news/2006-07/3-05.php)

You might find it interesting to read a little about how Wooster is playing of late, and a little about their history with John Carroll.  The Scots have practically no history with Brockport (played in 1971, and BPort came to Wooster a few years ago for a holiday tournament, but they missed each other), and no history with Fisher whatsoever.  Wooster also has no common opponents with Fisher, and has just Oberlin in common with Brockport--hard to draw any conclusions from how badly you beat Oberlin!

Anyway, I thought you might find this at least mildly interesting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 07, 2007, 06:24:37 PM
I hope you guys got your tickets to this game early. According to the Fisher webpage the Fisher allotment of tickets are sold out, and tickets will only be sold at the door if Brockport does not sell their allotment of tickets. Considering how close the schools are I am guessing that they will sell all of their tickets.

All in all it is looking like there will be a good crowd for the games Friday, and there also seems to be a bit of a buzz about both games. I can not make it to the Wooster/JCU game, because I am comming up from Cortland after work. I have tickets to the 2nd game and I can not wait.

After looking at both teams a little more in depth I consider the Fisher/Brockport game to be a push. Either team could win the game. Either way the game is sure to be won in the final minutes. I will take Fisher beause they are home, and because I think Baltz and Newman are playing much better than they were the last two times the teams met (and yes I am a homer)

In the second game I think Wooster is going to be just too good for JCU. I think it will be a close game, but Wooster will pull away and win by a few buckets.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on March 07, 2007, 07:03:36 PM
Dynasty you are not a homer are you? First of all his name is cantrel parish not smith. Biegal over Williams  LOL you have to be smoking something. Fisher does not match up with Bport, ther only hope is if bport plays bad and fisher shoots lights out!!!! Good luck on both of those happening.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 07, 2007, 07:07:22 PM
Quote from: bports on March 07, 2007, 07:03:36 PM
Dynasty you are not a homer are you? First of all his name is cantrel parish not smith. Biegal over Williams  LOL you have to be smoking something. Fisher does not match up with Bport, ther only hope is if bport plays bad and fisher shoots lights out!!!! Good luck on both of those happening.

and you are completely objective bport ???
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 07, 2007, 07:47:48 PM
Quote from: bports on March 07, 2007, 07:03:36 PM
Dynasty you are not a homer are you? First of all his name is cantrel parish not smith. Biegal over Williams  LOL you have to be smoking something. Fisher does not match up with Bport, ther only hope is if bport plays bad and fisher shoots lights out!!!! Good luck on both of those happening.

Obviously Fisher can not hang with them considering they have played them twice, beat them once, and lost a close game. Bottom line is this game will be tight the entire way, and can be won by either team.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: David Collinge on March 07, 2007, 07:49:44 PM
FYI...

I just opened up a new topic in the Multi-Region room concerning this sectional.
http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5165.new#new

It might make it easier for the followers of all 4 teams to discuss the tournament there; one-stop shopping.  ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 07, 2007, 10:01:32 PM
ok I promised it earlier here it is...I forget who did it last year but someone did for the Amherst Sectional and it was really helpful   this is a list of good places for food and for the most part I will try to include google map directions...

Ok first off your one stop places for just about everything that you need

Eastview Mall-the best of the malls in rochester...has the normal food court places

Johnny Rockets-$-relativly cheap chain resturant good burgers a nice atmosphere

Champs-$$$1/2-A more expensive sports bar-it is your place to be if you want to watch any of the games on friday or saturday...lots of tvs and decent food

PF Changs never been there before but have heard decent things about it.

Biaggi's Italion-haven't heard anything about it but here is the websiteBiaggis


and here is the eastview mall website

Pittsford plaza is a great place to go do a little shopping, there is a very nice grocery store, and if you've never been to a wegmans it is a whole new experiance and several of the buildings at fisher are named after the wegmans family... Applebee's is in this plaza along with someother resturants that I'm not familiar with...also a good cheap movie theater  Pittsford Plaza website....this is 5 minutes from the fisher campus....

I will post what I know about Fairport hots because that is where I get my plates...they range from around $6-8or9 depending on how hungry you are...they are good, not the best but definatly good and close to fisher...right next to Fairport hots is Baird Road Pub...last time I heard ex-fisher basketball player Raymie Aumen was doing a little bartending...who knows what he is up to now...this is easy to find you take a left out of the main fisher campus and go two-three miles if you get to the mobile station, a friendly's and a 7-11 you've gone to far it is on the corner of Fairport road and baird road at a light....


anyother questions please ask


P.S. while the rest of you will be stuffed inside the varsity gym I will be at the Kansas concert....FA91 you should appreciate that
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 07, 2007, 11:04:57 PM
Wow, Kansas? And I felt old going to the Billy Joel concert here last night. Wow.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 07, 2007, 11:12:29 PM
it helps that the tickets are free....one of the perks of my job

man dust in the wind, carry on my wayward son....these are classics and the theater is an incredibly beautiful theater one of the few orginal structures left in schectady
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2007, 07:54:15 AM
I know im old- but are there any other fisher old timers on here that remember Patim's Pub?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 08, 2007, 09:38:25 AM
While the Chairman doesn't have tickets to the St. John Fisher Regional he thought he would let everyone know that he has the inside track on press row tickets for the ACC Tournament being played about three blocks from his office.  More to come.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2007, 09:51:38 AM
Thanks for the info Mr. Chair.
Enjoy the tourney!!!


Oh- go cuse!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 08, 2007, 09:55:58 AM
bports sorry for the mispelling on cantrel whatever, I did it off the top of my head.  Furthermore, re-read the match ups, i did NOT have biegal over williams, i had it even with WILLIAMS the edge as if he slightly gets the notch over beigal. Make sure u fully read the posts before you come back with something as ignorant as your last post, thanks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2007, 10:01:20 AM
wow- you two have your own little feud going.

hey- whatever works to spice up the board!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 08, 2007, 10:20:46 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 07, 2007, 11:12:29 PM
it helps that the tickets are free....one of the perks of my job

man dust in the wind, carry on my wayward son....these are classics and the theater is an incredibly beautiful theater one of the few orginal structures left in schectady

Proctor's is a great building.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 11:20:09 AM
Well chair i don't know who your favorite ACC team is but if you're there letse chear on Verginiorrrrr!... Virginia has my backing in that tourney... however GO CUSE!! even with your new uglier than ever uniforms.


And if you're reading this board... never ever pay 9 dollars for a plate :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2007, 11:23:14 AM
i thought the new cuse unis were pretty cool.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 08, 2007, 11:28:03 AM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 11:20:09 AM
Well chair i don't know who your favorite ACC team is but if you're there letse chear on Verginiorrrrr!... Virginia has my backing in that tourney... however GO CUSE!! even with your new uglier than ever uniforms.


And if you're reading this board... never ever pay 9 dollars for a plate :)

The Chair grew up in Tampa which, honestly, is an SEC town.  Nevertheless, he possess a Juris Doctor from the Florida State University College of Law.  As is the Chair's general rule, he will hope FSU plays well in the ACC Tourney.  Outside of that, the Chair will remain unaffiliated and enjoy an up close and personal view of the best basketball conference on god's green earth.

Since I am all but certain the Big East fans on the board will shout me down, let me preemptively say that the ACC is a better conference for many reasons, the greatest of which being, all but one of its members are located on the proper side of "the line."  And we all know that Women, Weather and Athletics are among the many things we do better in Dixie.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2007, 11:34:12 AM
now that is just wrong.
Not that im a big east homer- but pound for pound the big east is a stronger conference.  Heck you are talking about 6 teams going to the dance!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 08, 2007, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2007, 11:34:12 AM
now that is just wrong.
Not that im a big east homer- but pound for pound the big east is a stronger conference.  Heck you are talking about 6 teams going to the dance!

Anyone can get 6 teams in when they have 35 members in the conference.  Pound for pound the Big East is a big fat guy.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2007, 11:52:24 AM
killing me!
dont get me wrong- i used to love the big east/acc challenge when you could prove it on the court- i still really believe that the big E is the better conference.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 11:54:05 AM
All i have to say about this... what did VT accomplish in the big east? notta.

Now that they are in the ACC they have beat duke and unc in the same week are were tied for first at one point.

And i'm ok with you being an FSU fan...just please no more upstate newyork unc or duke fans haha can't handle it anymore
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 11:57:01 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2007, 11:23:14 AM
i thought the new cuse unis were pretty cool.


The uniforms could be cool, if the shorts were a little less baggy and the jerseys werent skin tight. You didn't see paul harris standing for that haha, his jersey was extra  loose all things considered.

As far as design i'm ok with them, but having ORANGE written on the jersey? i don't know i guess i'm just a sucker for tradition.  Just like i think its silly that Ohio State is now putting the LBJ23 logo on their basketball and football uniforms... thats just silly.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2007, 12:02:40 PM
dont get me wrong- im old school- but sometimes change is good- now the su football unis on the other hand........
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 12:13:03 PM
lol... i like the football uniforms... can't try and hold on to donovan mcnabb forever.

so we'll agree to disagree.
The new basketball unis are something if they kept forever i could certainly learn to deal with.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2007, 12:17:20 PM
we will have to disagree on this one- the numbers on the helmets are aweful
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 08, 2007, 01:24:11 PM
The SU uniforms/logo corollary:

If professional designers like the unis/logo, fans hate 'em.
If fans like the unis/logo, the pros hate 'em.

It's as old as the hills.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 08, 2007, 01:28:09 PM
the unis would be ok as long as they either got rid of the silver or outlined it with blue or black. better yet make the numbers orange. has anyone seen the other two or three teams with the new unis?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 01:44:21 PM
yes and they are no better...
http://men.style.com/news/style/030507
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 01:44:58 PM
i don't know about arizona but you can see the other 3 on eastbay now too i believe.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 08, 2007, 02:08:55 PM
can someone tell me why unless you're kobe bryant would you wear long sleeves for basketball?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2007, 02:13:07 PM
great question!
on that same note why are the shorts---well not short?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 02:14:56 PM
haha... thats the question that may never be answered... read the article below the picture... he says something along the lines of how the baggy shorts or finally on their way out... and replacing them are really really baggy shorts.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 08, 2007, 02:16:26 PM
no kidding-
they look like clam diggers
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 04:49:07 PM
i love how the board goes silent for the Cuse' game :) too bad they couldn't pull it out :-\
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on March 08, 2007, 05:19:37 PM
Back to the game that really matters. Brockport has a big advantage in the backcourt, i will call the frontcourt a push. Brockport also has a pretty big advantage off the bench, add it all up and unless bport plays a bad game they will win this game. Like kornacker said we need to play like we did tonight to compete with bport. Brockport is just way to deep and will win Bport 81 fisher 73!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: hoopsplaya on March 08, 2007, 06:53:15 PM
Quote from: bports on March 08, 2007, 05:19:37 PM
Back to the game that really matters. Brockport has a big advantage in the backcourt, i will call the frontcourt a push. Brockport also has a pretty big advantage off the bench, add it all up and unless bport plays a bad game they will win this game. Like kornacker said we need to play like we did tonight to compete with bport. Brockport is just way to deep and will win Bport 81 fisher 73!!!!!!!!
bport- nice job getting these guys off of the big east and on to the topic.  However, that might be the only good thing you stated...   Do you think it was to Fisher's advantage to play a similar team in Plattsburgh to "get ready" for Brockport?  I think fisher handles the back court pressure and Newman limits his turn overs (just like vs. Plattsburgh).  If he indeed does, Fisher should win. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 08, 2007, 07:28:53 PM
bports, Dont mind your predictions seeing your a bport fan but i have to disagree on the backcourt, the backcourts are too hard to compare as they are totally different. Fishers is bigger and better shooters, bports is speed and quickness.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 08, 2007, 07:37:06 PM
Okay Everyone, I'm ready to talk about the Sweet 16 games Friday night. I don't have a ticket for the 1st game, but I'm going at 5, to see if I can get one. What a treat seeing two great games Friday night. Someone on here said that NCAA games at Fisher are always memorable coming down to the last basket. I hope that happens tom. night. I like John Carroll and St. John Fisher to meet in the elite 8.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 08, 2007, 08:04:17 PM
I hope Brockport's size doesn't give Fisher problems. bports thinks the backcourt is to Brockports advantage. McSweeney, Smalt, and Beigel better not get in foul trouble.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 09:44:24 PM
I think the second game later in the season is a better measuring tool for brockport and fisher... Fisher lost the first game of the season to brockport before they were really cohesive as a team with the freshmen coming in and getting so much time.

Now that they are used to playing witheachother at the Chase they won by 4.

I'm taking fisher in a close one by 3+
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 09:46:50 PM
also since everyone is talking about how many brockport has won and their streak... lets consider fisher


they have won 12 of their last 13 and should have beaten RIT, the last 10 seconds of that game were depressing and should have beat alfred.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 08, 2007, 10:09:48 PM
keystonelight, even beating Brockport during the Chase Tournament still doesn't mean a lot because it was back in January. It's March now. Both teams have improved.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 08, 2007, 10:59:40 PM
so you at least concede the first fisher/brock game is irrelevant then?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 11:55:55 PM
i think he has to if thats his viewpoint on the 2nd game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Amherst95 on March 09, 2007, 02:31:28 AM
Holy crap . . . after learning what a garbage plate is I almost wish we had gone up there last year.

Almost. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 09, 2007, 08:32:25 AM
amherst- you have no idea-
it is an unreal eating experience!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 09, 2007, 09:06:07 AM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 08, 2007, 09:46:50 PM
also since everyone is talking about how many brockport has won and their streak... lets consider fisher

they have won 12 of their last 13 and should have beaten RIT, the last 10 seconds of that game were depressing and should have beat alfred.

Why should they have beaten RIT?  I remember the Tigers outhustling and outplaying them for most of that game, and they took the lead with about 10 minutes left and never gave it back.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 09, 2007, 09:27:51 AM
yeah...fisher did not play well the 2nd half of that game but pulled back within 1 point with like 40 seconds left. A team is bound to get lucky when you play them 4 times in a season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 09, 2007, 09:28:41 AM
and i am in no way saying that rit is a bad team because they arent, they are a good club, but fisher is a better basketball team this year and shouldn't have lost that game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 09, 2007, 09:31:36 AM
The better team doesnt always win the game, RIT always besides the 05 season comes closer and closer each game until they win, last year Fisher snuck out of it by winning close at the end of the season.  Lets not get into an arguement about them losing to a solid rit team the 3rd time they played.  Im starting to get a little antsy for the game tonight, will the fisher of the past few games show up or will be the mediocre looking lack of offense and inexperiences fisher team midway through the season?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 09, 2007, 09:37:22 AM
D&C article about tonight's Fisher/Port game. If you read between the lines of some of the comments from both sides, you get the idea these two teams don't like each other very much.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070309/SPORTS09/703090370/1007/SPORTS
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 09, 2007, 10:22:40 AM
Definitely some interesting quotes in that article, including Whitmore employing some simple mind games.  My favorite though, from McSweeney -- "Brockport is establishing themselves as another area power. You know the personnel. Some you like, some you don't."

Yeah Dan, Brockport is brand new to the basketball scene here.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 09, 2007, 10:41:01 AM
Quote from: bamm on March 09, 2007, 10:22:40 AM
Definitely some interesting quotes in that article, including Whitmore employing some simple mind games.  My favorite though, from McSweeney -- "Brockport is establishing themselves as another area power. You know the personnel. Some you like, some you don't."

Yeah Dan, Brockport is brand new to the basketball scene here.

Most college athletes and all college student media, especially at small colleges, recognize no more than four years of history...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 09, 2007, 10:59:18 AM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 09, 2007, 10:41:01 AM
Quote from: bamm on March 09, 2007, 10:22:40 AM
Definitely some interesting quotes in that article, including Whitmore employing some simple mind games.  My favorite though, from McSweeney -- "Brockport is establishing themselves as another area power. You know the personnel. Some you like, some you don't."

Yeah Dan, Brockport is brand new to the basketball scene here.

Most college athletes and all college student media, especially at small colleges, recognize no more than four years of history...

Fisher football fans... yes, that was a not so subtle jab at you.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 09, 2007, 11:33:12 AM
bamm- that wasnt called for- you group super tags and myself in with a group like that?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 09, 2007, 11:39:16 AM
I wasn't taking a shot at any of you guys.  As a matter of fact, I have no idea what goes on in the E8 football boards beyond the spillover that's been found on this board this season.  If Tom Coughlin wasn't sent packing and the RIT football program hadn't ceased to exist 29 years ago, it might be a different story.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 09, 2007, 11:40:13 AM
but it did and it isnt......
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 09, 2007, 12:59:57 PM
Right... OK... moving on then...

Anyone have any idea where/if Fisher is planning to put media members tonight?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 09, 2007, 02:19:08 PM
most likely on the floor like they do every night...accept that annoying ctv which blocks the view of every damn person in the upper level for atleast a portion of mid court and or the paints depending on where you're sitting
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 09, 2007, 04:20:08 PM
i have tickets to both games and i'm hoping my group isn't kicked out of the gym to wait in line to get into a gym i was already in with tickets in hand.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woosterbooster on March 09, 2007, 05:07:00 PM
Ok, I put together a homemade plate, ate it about two hours ago, and my stomach is still ticked off at me.  Mac salad, homefries, a burger, a big hot dog, topped with beanless chili, hot sauce, and ketchup.  Cut the meat and mixed it all up good.  I was darned hungry (had skipped breakfast for the occasion) and enjoyed it, except for the burger which seemed out of place.  Oh, yeah, had some bread and butter too, but not much.  The whole thing was probably more than a 59-year old stomach should have to endure, so it will probably be a one-time experience.  :)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woosterbooster on March 09, 2007, 05:11:07 PM
Above the Rim (an Excel-based statistical basketball game) predicts SUNY Brockport over St. John Fisher, 84-71.  Poor shooting combined with plentiful turnovers by both teams produced a low-scoring first half after which SJF led by the score of 30-28.  Both clubs began to find the range after intermission, but especially Brockport, as they put up a remarkable 56 points. 

With 15:39 to go in the ballgame a three-pointer by Dave Maldonado broke a 39-39 tie and Brockport never again trailed, leading by as many as 17.  Fisher cut it to 8 around the six-minute mark, but could never get closer.

Fisher had a very difficult time with the quickness of Brockport which forced them into committing 25 fouls.  Both McSweeney and Biegel fouled out.  Brockport missed 10 free throws, but made 23, and that was enough for the margin of victory.  The SUNY school also came up with 14 steals, led by Sherod Harris' five.

The boxscore:

http://arkski.com/~jwood/suny%20brockport_(84)_at_st.%20john%20fisher_(71).html

AtR also picks Wooster over JCU by the score of 85-72.

Boxscore:

http://arkski.com/~jwood/john%20carroll_(72)_vs_wooster_(85).html

AtR had the winners in all three games at Wooster last weekend, including the somewhat surprising defeat of Capital by Centre.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 09, 2007, 05:31:14 PM
haha woosterbooser, that above the rim simulation seems as if its almost real.  From your explanations and never seeing either team play, beigal and mcsweeney could very well foul out as they almost do every game, and Maldano has the potential to come in and win or lose the game for bport, his shooting will be key in a bport victory. However as a fisher fan, lets hope its wrong tonight.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 09, 2007, 05:45:24 PM
Quote from: Wooster Booster on March 09, 2007, 05:11:07 PM
Above the Rim (an Excel-based statistical basketball game) predicts SUNY Brockport over St. John Fisher, 84-71.  Poor shooting combined with plentiful turnovers by both teams produced a low-scoring first half after which SJF led by the score of 30-28.  Both clubs began to find the range after intermission, but especially Brockport, as they put up a remarkable 56 points. 

With 15:39 to go in the ballgame a three-pointer by Dave Maldonado broke a 39-39 tie and Brockport never again trailed, leading by as many as 17.  Fisher cut it to 8 around the six-minute mark, but could never get closer.

Fisher had a very difficult time with the quickness of Brockport which forced them into committing 25 fouls.  Both McSweeney and Biegel fouled out.  Brockport missed 10 free throws, but made 23, and that was enough for the margin of victory.  The SUNY school also came up with 14 steals, led by Sherod Harris' five.

The boxscore:

http://arkski.com/~jwood/suny%20brockport_(84)_at_st.%20john%20fisher_(71).html

AtR also picks Wooster over JCU by the score of 85-72.

Boxscore:

http://arkski.com/~jwood/john%20carroll_(72)_vs_wooster_(85).html

AtR had the winners in all three games at Wooster last weekend, including the somewhat surprising defeat of Capital by Centre.


That's pretty cool that it creates play by play.  Who developed that and how does it work?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: woosterbooster on March 09, 2007, 06:41:55 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 09, 2007, 05:45:24 PMThat's pretty cool that it creates play by play.  Who developed that and how does it work?

A guy named Wayne Poniewaz took an old board game called Statis-Pro Basketball, put it into Excel, and made numerous improvements, including a strength-of-schedule factor.  There is a college version and a pro version.  Many people have created numerous collegiate and NBA/ABA teams.  I'm the only one that fools around with DIII, but once you get the hang of it it's not hard to do.

The game is free and is available here:

http://www.tabletopsportsgames.homestead.com/TableTopSportsGames.html

The one you would want is AtR Made Easy.zip.  This would include the latest versions of both the college and pro games and instructions.  Many teams are also available at that site, including all D1 teams for the last two seasons.  Wayne's email is also available there.

There is also a forum where you can find out more about the game.  People are currently in the process of creating all the D1 teams so as to do a preplay of the NCAA tournament.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/tabletopsports/messages/?msg=4956.1 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 09, 2007, 07:22:18 PM
I will post the link to an interesting website below. You can simulate games (almost any sport) with teams from different eras. For instance, if you want to know who would win a game between Syracuse's 2003 national championship team and Florida's 2006 national championship team, you can simulate and find out. I'm warning you, this site is very addictive.

http://www.whatifsports.com/locker/simulations.shtm
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2007, 08:33:36 PM
Pat must be on a delay because it is weird trying to listen and watch the live stats
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 09, 2007, 08:50:25 PM
My live stats window is going kinda slowly, but it appears to be 24-19 Fisher with 8:35 left in the 1st half.  Wooster beat John Carroll 83-73 in the early game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2007, 08:53:12 PM
31-27 fisher 6:30 left
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2007, 09:03:22 PM
the refs need to swallow there wistles going both ways
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 09, 2007, 09:12:11 PM
43-39 Fisher at halftime.  Chris Baltz with 12 pts and 8 boards for SJF, Dan Mueller has 8 points.  B'Port led by Aaron Poles with 8 points and Shawn Harris with 7.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2007, 09:17:39 PM
and 23 fouls combined
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2007, 09:55:02 PM
ok any AND I MEAN any talk of fisher getting calls at homes ends today....with 8 minutes left McSweeny, Beigel, Newman and Mueller all have 4 fouls
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2007, 10:17:13 PM
congrats to Brockport...you guys won today...but heade Pat's warning...watch out for the traveling....go on and represent Rochester in the final 4
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 09, 2007, 10:22:30 PM
I agree there seemed to be way too many calls both ways in such an important game... but a good game Congrats to fisher on a good season!!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2007, 10:28:49 PM
I'm not going to comment on the fouls just because they did go both ways...but come on swallow the whistle in a game this big....part of me thinks that the refs read the boards and decided to teach us a lesson...JUST KIDDING
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 09, 2007, 10:31:28 PM
Well in my opinion it was teaching both teams a lesson...it seemed like their were way too many players in foul trouble. 

Moving on, I don't know too much about Wooster, other than that they are highly ranked and are pretty darn good!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2007, 10:36:07 PM
well if sharod harris plays like he played today I say bport by 6 and bports do us all a favor and don't be an ass...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 09, 2007, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 09, 2007, 10:36:07 PM
well if sharod harris plays like he played today I say bport by 6 and bports do us all a favor and don't be an ass...

I really have no idea who that guy is, but he's been like that for years in both Football and Basketball.  I really hope there is no bragging, just focus on tomorrow's game. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 09, 2007, 10:51:39 PM
What a night at Fisher! Congrats to Brockport. I saw Wooster play, and I think Brockport will win tom. night. Great amostphere, but the refs were horrible on both sides. Fisher was in foul trouble all night. Brockport was to. From what I saw, I just thought that Brockport was more physical than Fisher. Bport was right on, the backcourt was owned by Brockport. Brockport really impressed me.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 09, 2007, 11:04:26 PM
Who wins, Wooster or Brockport? Can Wooster slow down Brockport's frontcourt? Williams?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on March 09, 2007, 11:41:01 PM
Congrats to fisher on a nice season and a good effort tonight. Bport played an awesome second half and there guards were just to much to handle. Bport loses no one off this team so im sure these two teams will meet up next year a couple few times. Props to the whole bport team that was a great win. Wooster looks pretty good especially those 2 guards and #33, they like an up tempo game so tomorrow should be interesting. I noticed alot of respect between bport and fisher tonight during the starting lineups, that was nice to see. The difference in the game was obviously bport shooting lights out in the 2nd half. I think fisher should have tryed to slow the game down a little but that is easier said than done. GOOD WORK BPORT, LETS KEEP THIS THING GOING.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 09, 2007, 11:58:52 PM
i don't know how many of you were at the fisher/brockport game but would anyone put good and refs in the same sentence? i'm not even claiming all the calls went to brockport but I'm rather sure fisher lost the game because brockport got into bonus and double bonus too quick and kept churning the lead after these faux fouls.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 10, 2007, 12:00:08 AM
Yeah bport, they scored a lot of points in the second half. Fishers  foul shooting was horrible(8-17). What do you think about tom. nights game? Close game?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 10, 2007, 12:02:50 AM
Let me say this, Brockport didn't get a lot of calls either, it was even in my opinion. Williams was unbelieavble. Did having two freshman in the backcourt catch up to Fisher? Not taking anything away from Harris and Clarke.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 10, 2007, 12:09:38 AM
no I think brockport did exactly what they needed to do...the made it so McSweeny was a non factor and they got Fisher in foul trouble...nothing against Adrian but he can't do it himself...Fisher went away from their bread and butter and congrats to port for that....



edit:Port fans make sure you take the Wooster team out for a few drinks at Coyote Joes and then over to Tahoues
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 10, 2007, 12:37:16 AM
Just got back home from the Fisher/Brockport game. The reffing was terrible...terrible...terrible...but it was very bad both ways. I will say that I think Brockport is a better team. If the two teams played 10 times I think Brockport would win 6 of them. They can score a ton (see 66 points in the 2nd half) and they hit a lot of free throws.

Fisher had a great season, especially for what was supposed to be a rebuilding year. A nice run to the sweet 16 is nothing to be down about. I think as a fisher fan you have to be stoked about next year. Newman, Baltz, Beigle, and some other contributers comming back it is looking good.

Good luck to Brockport tomorrow. I hope they can pull out another win tomorrow night, and get to the final four. I think they can win. They score a lot of points and they can run with Wooster. Go get em...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 10, 2007, 01:51:42 AM
this evening i have a few things to say...one for the wooster fan who made his own garbage plate...i applaud you for attempting it it's not easy when i make my own i don't put nearly the care you did into it and yes that is a ton of food haha... i wouldn't suggest a dog and a burger next tiem though...pick one and stick with it
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 10, 2007, 01:54:26 AM
as far as the reffing was concerned it was aweful. Other college refs in the stands agreeing. However if they didn't call all those fouls how out of hand would that game have been? It was physical from the get go with 5 from brockport and mueller starting to get into it. Also i feel that the fouls held the game back which is hard to defend because even then it was one of the better games i've seen in a while, probably since the first fisher u of r game. Its weird for me to say this but i havn't been angry to lose to brockport either time this season, that is one hell of a team and i am picking them to go to atleast the championship game maybe win it all, they are deep and have excellent guard play and great presence down low. I think they handle wooster by atleast 10 after watching the game. Although i could be totally mistaken as to how good wooster is seeing as how they had just traveled 6 hours.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 10, 2007, 01:57:39 AM
Lastly i think fisher would have had a better chance of atleast making the loss a prettier one, better than by 14 or whatever it was. In the 2nd half they played atleast a 6 minute stretch with no point guard. Its muellers job to look for open shots (few and far between this evening) but impossible when he's charged with the duty to handle the ball. McKeever was the only guard fisher had that was untouchable and unphased by brockports defense, much better matchup for their #5 (who played out of his mind tonight and hopefully continues to) Congratulations to brokport on an excellent season thus far beginning fishers season and ending it. Its refreshing to see that uptempo basketball played so well.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DirkDiggler on March 10, 2007, 02:15:29 AM
I read alot on these posts but seldom post.  The thing that really gets me is about the refs.  I know I wasn't at the games but it seems like after every big loss for Fisher, or big win, someone has something to say about the refs.  Seriously people, have you ever tried to referee in your life before?  I highly doubt it, and if you have, I highly doubt it was such a high maintance game such as Fisher/Naz or Fisher/Brockport in the sweet 16.  I would love to see you guys make a block/charge call in a fraction of a second.  I bet my life on it that none of you could do it on a consistent basis.  I just have a personal bisas for the refs.

That being said, I tip my hat to Brockport for winning the game.  I wasn't there but it sounds like you guys executed your game plan to perfection.  Being good friends of Dan McSweeney and Dan Mueller and A-Feynen, I wish you guys could have had a better ending to your career.

On to next year season, I think Fishers' success depends on who transfers and what freshman they get in.  I only hope Mckeaver, Keirnan, and Coyne stay around to enjoy another year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 10, 2007, 04:21:48 AM
I'd be suprised if any freshmen stayed... anyone wonder where kyle stevens has been? yeah...nice coaching blunder there kornaker... ask in confidence of your players who is transfering next year and someone speaks up then the coach cuts you and has you removed even from the website less than an hour later? thats the kornaker i've come to know and not love.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 10, 2007, 08:38:59 AM
the thing is the freshman know coming in that they won't get much playing time they know what the roster looks like...I think you might get a few of the kids who don't think they are good enough leaving the team...and dirk you say that we always bash the refs....I was not at the game but did listen to it...and when there are as many fouls called that there were and 4 of your starters are on the bench with 8 minutes left with 4 fouls thats a lot of fouls....now Brockport did a better job of bringing in people so all of there fouls were spread out amongst players
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on March 10, 2007, 10:33:31 AM
One thing that could have changed the way the game was played was the refs. The main thing was that Brockport was more aggressive in their dribble penetration and when your guards are more physical and better athletes it would be tough for fisher to get in the paint. If you watch any game, the more dribble penetration you have the more the refs will support you. I would think that goes for just about every level.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 10, 2007, 12:28:53 PM
Quote from: DirkDiggler on March 10, 2007, 02:15:29 AM
I read alot on these posts but seldom post.  The thing that really gets me is about the refs.  I know I wasn't at the games but it seems like after every big loss for Fisher, or big win, someone has something to say about the refs.  Seriously people, have you ever tried to referee in your life before?  I highly doubt it, and if you have, I highly doubt it was such a high maintance game such as Fisher/Naz or Fisher/Brockport in the sweet 16.  I would love to see you guys make a block/charge call in a fraction of a second.  I bet my life on it that none of you could do it on a consistent basis.  I just have a personal bisas for the refs.

That being said, I tip my hat to Brockport for winning the game.  I wasn't there but it sounds like you guys executed your game plan to perfection.  Being good friends of Dan McSweeney and Dan Mueller and A-Feynen, I wish you guys could have had a better ending to your career.

On to next year season, I think Fishers' success depends on who transfers and what freshman they get in.  I only hope Mckeaver, Keirnan, and Coyne stay around to enjoy another year.

very true but that is why I do not pretend to be a college referee. It was not the blockig/charge fouls it was the about 25 (by my unofficial count) traveling calls that they missed, that were about 70% Brockport and 30% fisher.
Also they missed a very easy call at a big moment in the 2nd half. Fisher had just scored to cut brockports lead to 2. On the the inbound play the brockport big man stepped out of bounds, then the brockport guard(#5) grabbed the ball and stepped out of bounds. He (#5) then threw the ball into play, and the Brockport big man ran from out of bounds a grabbed the ball. Making him the first player to touch the ball after comming from out of bounds. It would not have/did not make the difference in the game. But anybody who is worth anything as a ref could make a very simple call like that. It was calls like that all night, that all refs, and I mean all refs, could make.

That is why people are complaining about the refs. As I said last night the refs were awful both ways...but they wre very very bad.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2007, 12:36:22 PM
This unbiased eye puts the traveling non-calls at about four.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 10, 2007, 12:44:28 PM
Pat, can you give us a quick take about the two games last night. Who do you think will win tonight Wooster or Brockport?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 10, 2007, 12:46:33 PM
Anyone out there, tonights game isn't sold out is it? Are their still tickets available at 6pm tonight or earlier? Thanks.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 10, 2007, 02:05:43 PM
Heres the question of the night for the Brockport vs Wooster game. Can Wooster play run and gun style and be physical against Brockport?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on March 10, 2007, 02:23:32 PM
Tickets were being sold at bport from 11-1 today and if any were left at 6 pm at the door.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 10, 2007, 02:25:12 PM
Bport, I went to Fisher and the guy at the Athletic office told me that the game won't sellout and I can buy my ticket at the door at 6. What do you think?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: division3hoops on March 10, 2007, 03:12:07 PM
bjgiants6 -
If you had seen very many of Wooster's games this year, or checked out their scores on the website, you'd know that they are a huge run and gun style team.  That is mostly the way that we play.  It was probably hard to tell that after watching the JCU game last night.  Honestly, Wooster fought hard and were physical and played great defense, but their offense was not up to what it usually was, especially in the first half.  Most of our final scores have been in the 80's and 90's this year, with the exception of teams like Witt, OWU and some others who are big defensive teams. We did get on a run and end last night with the final score of 83 but I would imagine that if we were paired up with another team that likes to run the ball, the scores would have been much higher.
This should be an interesting game tonight with two teams who really like to run the ball.  What is Bport's defense like??
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bports on March 10, 2007, 03:19:49 PM
bjgiant i  would say if you are there around 6 you will be in good shape.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 10, 2007, 03:29:54 PM
division3hoops, thanks for the info. I don't know. I haad a tough time gauging Wooster. They were much more of a face pace team in the 2nd half. This could be a high scoring game like you said, and I think it will be. Brockport was the most face pace team I've seen all year,  more than St. John Fisher. To answer your question, Brockport's defense is good. Harris(#3) is a short black player that is quick and pesky. He I think is the total package. He can shoot very well and can drive considering he's only 5'9!!! Last night, he was guarding a freshman and ate him right up. He especially will try to get into whoever he is guarding into the palyers head, and talks trash. Port really impressed me with Wooster, from what I saw, he is the one that makes Wooster's team go. Same with Harris from Brockport. Also, Brockport is very physical and will try to wear you down with their speed and quickness from their guards(Harris especially) and Williams, their foward, who can penetrate and can shoot from a decent range.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 10, 2007, 03:32:01 PM
If Wooster plays a face pace game, which favors Brockport as well. This could get interesting.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bjgiants6 on March 10, 2007, 03:32:51 PM
Bport, thanks.  That's what I was planning on doing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 10, 2007, 05:17:51 PM
Did anyone else notice that future conference member Stevens (Ducks) also made the Sweet 16? This is going to be a very competitive conference over the new few years.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 10, 2007, 05:29:52 PM
is this stevens point from wisconsin or is there a sp from the new jersey area? I did see some kids at the game last night with a hat on with a webbed stylized D on it and it reminded me of anaheims new logo to give you a mental image. But is that the new team that will be in the E 8? i hear there are going to be 2 new teams from NJ.

I think if brockport can shut down woosters 33 tonight which will be hard cuz he has a WET BALL, smooth smooth stroke (all american) they will be able to win tonight. The two guards for wooster number 10 and 14 will be so evenly matched with brockports guards they will essentially be a non factor and with vandervaart having a broken hand or what have you i think he's an average player at best and can be handled by brockports big men.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 10, 2007, 05:32:31 PM
I'm still taking brockport by 10+...anything can happen in the ncaas so i may be swallowing those words later but for now thats where i'm standing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 10, 2007, 05:33:06 PM
hopefully now that wooster has had a chance to settle in from the traveling they will be more impressive, more like the 2nd half yesterday.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: pg04 on March 10, 2007, 05:52:38 PM
I think saying Brockport by 10 or more is foolish since Wooster is supposed to be one of the top 5 teams in the nation, but I really hope it happens!!  I am expecting a 105-100 type of game...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ScotsFan on March 10, 2007, 06:39:30 PM
Quote from: bjgiants6 on March 10, 2007, 03:32:01 PM
If Wooster plays a face pace game, which favors Brockport as well. This could get interesting.
What pace exactly is a face pace?  Would it be like this ;D ? Or more like this  ;D?  Just messing with ya! ;)

Wooster is definately not going to be afraid to run with B'port.  If you look at the stats, Wooster is actually averaging a point more per game than B'port.

Quote from: keystonelight on March 10, 2007, 05:29:52 PM

I think if brockport can shut down woosters 33 tonight which will be hard cuz he has a WET BALL, smooth smooth stroke (all american) they will be able to win tonight. The two guards for wooster number 10 and 14 will be so evenly matched with brockports guards they will essentially be a non factor and with vandervaart having a broken hand or what have you i think he's an average player at best and can be handled by brockports big men.

Shutting down Port (#33) is easier said than done!  He has been on a bit of a mission since the post-season began.  He's a senior and he's hungry to get to Salem.

In regards to Wooster's guards, I don't think they will be affected by a little trash talking. ::)  If anything, they will feed off of it.  And as far as you calling it a wash, #14 is Marty Bidwell and he usually plays small forward, not guard.  James Cooper (#22) was our conferences reigning POY from last season.  He was beaten out this year by Port BTW!  Wooster had played a top rated NAIA team (Georgetown, KY) earlier this season who had just played Dayton and their coach mentioned that Cooper was a better shooting guard than any Dayton had!  Cooper was also a D I recruit.  And all Brandon Johnson (#12) has done is step in to take over the floor general duties after a 4 year starting pg graduated last season and the offense hasn't skipped a beat!  He was also a 2nd team all-NCAC performer as well! 

The bottom line is that Wooster's strength is in the guard position.  I'd be very surprised if B'port's guards would be successful in neutralizing Wooster's guards.  I may end up being wrong, but I'm sticking to my POV.

And as far as Vandervaart is concerned, if B'port takes him lightly, he will go off on you.  He was just coming off of a game where he had 18 against Centre and their 6'9" center.  He's capable of having a big game despite his cast!

All in all, I think you're prediction of B'port by 10+ is a bit much!  This will arguably be the best team that B'port has faced all season as they didn't face a top 25 opponent all season.  Trust me, we Wooster fans hear about how Wooster playing in the weak NCAC always hurts them come tournament time because they aren't tournament tested.  That's why the Scots went out and loaded their non-conference schedule with several NAIA powerhouses as well as a stacked holiday tournament that they hosted.  We keep hearing about how Wooster hasn't faced a team like B'port.  Well, I like to think B'port hasn't faced a team like Wooster!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 10, 2007, 07:05:41 PM
like i said... i have only seem them play 1 game ever... yesterday against JCU (who i thought was god aweful) (i would hate to see the kids 20 beat out to be the first kid off the bench) and you have to take into consideration wooster just got done traveling 6 hours...thats why i said i might end up swallowing those words. I hope its a close game and that our region sends the best team possible, my prediction was just from what i witnessed friday.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 11, 2007, 06:33:51 AM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 10, 2007, 05:29:52 PM
is this stevens point from wisconsin or is there a sp from the new jersey area? I did see some kids at the game last night with a hat on with a webbed stylized D on it and it reminded me of anaheims new logo to give you a mental image. But is that the new team that will be in the E 8? i hear there are going to be 2 new teams from NJ.

The school is actually called Stevens Tech, out of Hoboken, NJ... the ducks is the mascot. They are indeed the team that will be joining the Empire 8 next year. I wonder what the conference will do with the name? Empire 9...kind of lame...maybe it will just be named the empire conference?? Either way I believe that this is the only team joining the conference as a full member (all sports except football I believe). They should add some depth to the league as far as talent goes, but this is their first ever trip to the NCAA's so I am not sure how strong of a program they are. Hopefully it will bring some new competitiveness and talent to the league in all sports. I know their soccer program is one of the elite programs in the country, and I guess the baseball, Lax, and apparently Basketball teams are very good as well.

I think the E9 could stand to expand a little bit. Maybe add Springfield or Norwich as an all sports member. I guess Washington and Jefferson is also in the league for Field Hockey? They would seem to fit the mold of an E8 institution. smaller private school with a solid academic reputation. Any thoughts on restructuring? I am not sure if any of the schools I mentioned are at all interested in joining the leage, or if the E8 is interested. I just think with only 8 teams (9 next year) another school or two may not be such a bad deal. How many does the SUNYAC have? 11 I think. However, the league already has the automatic bids for all sports so I guess getting bigger may not be a huge priority. Mabye they should add a few schools and make an East and West division? Could add to the appeal of conference tournaments. Adding members could also add balance to sports that have been dominated by one team, like Fisher in basketball, or IC in baseball for example. Just some stuff I am thinking about after a 7 hour flight to L.A. and not having slept for over 24 hours.

Any thoughts/ideas?

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 11, 2007, 12:07:25 PM
hey all superman is making a bracket challenge this is going to be E8 vs. LL to determine who is best once and for all...please use get notify the board as the team you represent...and for the guys who represent non e8 or LL teams join anyways and we'll have a league as other


http://llvse8.mayhem.sportsline.com/e
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ksc218 on March 11, 2007, 12:39:13 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on March 11, 2007, 06:33:51 AM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 10, 2007, 05:29:52 PM
is this stevens point from wisconsin or is there a sp from the new jersey area? I did see some kids at the game last night with a hat on with a webbed stylized D on it and it reminded me of anaheims new logo to give you a mental image. But is that the new team that will be in the E 8? i hear there are going to be 2 new teams from NJ.

The school is actually called Stevens Tech, out of Hoboken, NJ... the ducks is the mascot. They are indeed the team that will be joining the Empire 8 next year. I wonder what the conference will do with the name? Empire 9...kind of lame...maybe it will just be named the empire conference?? Either way I believe that this is the only team joining the conference as a full member (all sports except football I believe). They should add some depth to the league as far as talent goes, but this is their first ever trip to the NCAA's so I am not sure how strong of a program they are. Hopefully it will bring some new competitiveness and talent to the league in all sports. I know their soccer program is one of the elite programs in the country, and I guess the baseball, Lax, and apparently Basketball teams are very good as well.

I think the E9 could stand to expand a little bit. Maybe add Springfield or Norwich as an all sports member. I guess Washington and Jefferson is also in the league for Field Hockey? They would seem to fit the mold of an E8 institution. smaller private school with a solid academic reputation. Any thoughts on restructuring? I am not sure if any of the schools I mentioned are at all interested in joining the leage, or if the E8 is interested. I just think with only 8 teams (9 next year) another school or two may not be such a bad deal. How many does the SUNYAC have? 11 I think. However, the league already has the automatic bids for all sports so I guess getting bigger may not be a huge priority. Mabye they should add a few schools and make an East and West division? Could add to the appeal of conference tournaments. Adding members could also add balance to sports that have been dominated by one team, like Fisher in basketball, or IC in baseball for example. Just some stuff I am thinking about after a 7 hour flight to L.A. and not having slept for over 24 hours.

Any thoughts/ideas?



big 10 has 11 teams.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 11, 2007, 12:40:32 PM
much well that doesn't make much sense to this guys, but I guess that is the way that it has to be.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 11, 2007, 01:34:40 PM
i agree that the big 10 having 11 teams is silly, but that is the first thing that came to mind. I like the Empire 8 all the way around, its name, logo set, i don't think they should change anything.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 11, 2007, 01:37:51 PM
hey superman whats the league password?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 11, 2007, 02:57:31 PM
football
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 11, 2007, 06:59:25 PM
Wow...just now able to come to terms with the fact that Arkansas, Illinois, and Stanford got into the field before Syracuse.

I mean Stanford? 18-11, and finished 6th in the Pac 10...good lord.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 11, 2007, 10:36:52 PM
ok so everyone who is in the cbs page can stay in that one but also join this one it is easier and we all read ESPN every day


http://games.espn.go.com/tcmen/group?groupID=46116
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 12, 2007, 07:48:46 AM
just logging on for the first time in days- good season Fisher nothing to hang the head about, and arkansas over the cuse....?
cuse got jobbed.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 12, 2007, 10:03:26 AM
I'm incapable of expressing my frustration over the 'Cuse snub.  Just... wow.  Stanford.  Stanford?  Freaking Stanford?!?

Anyway, with the season officially over for the entire East region, I'll just make a few comments to wrap up and think about next year.

Good season for Fisher.  They certainly exceeded expectations.  And I'm sure most of you know I don't enjoy giving the Cards credit for anything.

Several E8 teams return key players next season.  A quick glance at the All-Conference teams will show you that there are fewer seniors than normal.  The conference should be stronger next season.

Ithaca will have greater things expected of them next season, I'd even go so far as to say they could be the favorites in the E8.  Burton, Leahy, and Bostic all have two years left.

Again, I don't know what to expect from Fisher.  Newman and Baltz will be a year older.  Beigel is back, but I was disappointed with what he did this season.  Maybe he asserts himself more next year.

RIT returns Gethers, who I think is a sure thing E8 first-teamer next year.  If Zeinfeld can shoot better than 30% next season it would be helpful.  They will contend.

Utica, Nazareth, Alfred, and Hartwick should all play a part as well.  And I have no idea what we can expect from Stevens.  Anyone know if they have some sort of probationary status in conference?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 12, 2007, 10:06:30 AM
bamm-- i agree about cuse- im still in shock and denial----
NIT against s.Alabama?
wow...all i can say
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 12, 2007, 10:27:13 AM
Bamm im not trying to be a jerk here, but stop being silly.  If fisher is not the E8 favorite next year then something is wrong with whoever is making the votes.  I do think Ithaca will be good and if they get some good recruits again they could win it but dont be silly.  Fisher returns Beigal, Newman, Baltz and Smalt, and mark bearden who started most of the season.  If they bring in a few more good frosh. then they will be very good again.   My early prediction of the E8 next year. I dont have enough time to elaborate a lot i'll do that at another time.

1. Fisher - Won it the last 5 years and bring back some good young players along with veteran bigs and are the best coached team in the E8 (not saying kornacker is a great coach, just most besides goodemote are pretty bad. Baltz and Newman will be much better and smaltz will replace mcsweeney.  Also, the 4-5 Fisher 6'7 fresh will get some quality playing time and should be more developed as they were just behind to much depth at the big positions this year.  Actually winning the title, will be the hardest in the past 5 years as well, as they should be predicted to win, a of the top 6 teams have legit chances to win the league, the parity among them is tremendous.  As Fisher should be the pre-season favorite, I actually believe next year may be the first conf. title defeat in while for fisher.

2. Ithaca - Bring back a lot of fire power, lets see how consistent they can be when more is expected from them.

3. RIT - Always up there and return a ton, you could squeeze them in the 2nd spot.

4. Naz - I know i know its so hard to put them at the #4 spot but they will have sooo much talent, returning the bigger Mcadam, little mcadam will be much improved, canori will be a senior and both big men.  Mayve this team will finally be grown up. This team could be very dangerous if they can learn to play as a team, to play defense, and to finish a whole game.  However, it will be a shame if they win the conf. because they wont do much in the tourny due to horrible coaching. 

5.  Stevens Ducks - losing 2 Sr starters and all they're  big men.  Will have strong guards and will be a nice change for the E8. I dont see them being big enough to be above Naz, ithaca, rit or Fisher. 

6.  Utica - Losing bryant, lighthall, and collier, maybe a few others, this team needs to pick up there key transfer to be a contender.  However, they are very well coached and have good players coming back, they could be up there as well.

7.  Hartwick - Should be able to win a few more games.

8.9.  Alfred losses stein and few others, they will be very bad, and elmira, well they arent going to be good either so who cares.


from the predictions, the league is going to be very strong next year, with 1-6 able to win it.  Should be another interesting year even more so then this year as the league was a little young and down.  Next year I think it will be the strongest its been overall in a while.  However, I dont see any of the teams being contenders for a final 4 or elite 8 once again.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 12, 2007, 10:33:10 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 12, 2007, 10:27:13 AM
1. Fisher

Everyone take a few minutes to recover from the shock of this prediction...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 12, 2007, 10:34:00 AM
just pointing out the facts  8)! haha
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 12, 2007, 10:59:04 AM
My only opionion on this subject is that Fisher should automaticly be 1 or 2 untill they prove that they aren't the best
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 12, 2007, 11:10:38 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 12, 2007, 10:34:00 AM
just pointing out the facts  8)! haha

What facts were you pointing out?  I'm pretty sure there's no way a 2007-2008 prediction, under any circumstances, is a fact.

Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 12, 2007, 10:27:13 AM
Bamm im not trying to be a jerk here, but stop being silly.  If fisher is not the E8 favorite next year then something is wrong with whoever is making the votes. 

I said "Ithaca could be the favorites".  Yeah, I'm completely shocked this offended you.  What does "being silly" mean? 

I'd take Burton, Leahy, and Bostic over Newman, Beigal, and Baltz all day.  And under what set of "facts" am I supposed to be impressed by Isiah Smalt?  Is he going to guard Bostic?  That should be fun.

I'm not saying Fisher won't contend.  I just like Ithaca's players a bit more.  We have a long time to wait and see.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 12, 2007, 11:21:57 AM
I was just being stupid with the facts comment.  I like Ithaca's players too, Leahy if he adds some weight and muscle could be nasty by the time he is a jr or senior and bostic was much improved and im sure will be even much better next year along with burton, however, they will need to find 2 more players to become a step above role players, which they may have so we'll see.  Smalt is very good, and it will show next year when he has more pressure on him and gets the minutes needed.  Beigal and Smalt are the best big man combo in the league. (I would say i like tyler smith and deheimer but naz does not get them the ball enough).  Baltz has been really impressive second half of the season, it would surprise me if he has a few 35+ pt games next year.  NCAA tourny experience is huge, getting to the sweet 16 helps turn boys into men.  It helps you put in to realization what it takes to win.  Mark Bearden who finally got some gametime minutes can be an excellent 3 man in the league.  Also, the transition to fresh to soph year is huge, 1 or 2 freshmen bigs for fisher most likely will start getting some minutes and have the talent to dominate, there are some big boys at the end of the bench that got to practice with beigal smalt and mcsweeny all year. But we will see again it should be very interesting, Fishers loss of Mueller and Mcsweeney their two best players will definatly hurt, and adrien fenyn who carried them in the  post season will also hurt.  next years Fisher team will be even more vulnerable.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 12, 2007, 01:00:41 PM
Ithaca returns their entire starting five. While the "big three" are the most notable, they also return starting SG Brian Ruffrage who was either at the top or near it in steals/game in conference play. He doesn't shoot often which, as I've mentioned before, allows Ithaca's scorers to take more shots (this is a good thing). Also, Ithaca will return starting center Tom Brown who was a freshman this past year. Brown played great in the middle of the season during the first round through conference play and somewhat hit a wall down the stretch. That said, I expect significant improvement from him coming into next year; he's a hard worker and I think he'll be pushed by the fact that his sister was one of the best players in Ithaca history and, if he's male, he'll want to represent himself well (nobody likes to hear about how much better of a player your sister was).

I digress. Mullins usually tries to break in a few freshmen every other year. Next year will be that year. I think we'll see two impact freshmen coming off the bench for the Bombers, in addition to current role players Brendan Rogers and Louis Kail. Do I think they should be favored ahead of Fisher? Probably not. But I do think they should beat Fisher in Ithaca next season. In all likelihood, they'll have the conference's preseason POY (Bostic) to go with Burton and Leahy. The team will have high expectations next season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 12, 2007, 01:13:36 PM
Although its a little early for all this, and especially predictions for whos going to be who when and where, since the non-conf game do help in the predictions.  But I agree GoBombers, I do think Ithaca will have a great chance at beating Fisher in Ithaca next year.  I think next year, whichever teams can play better on the road will win the conference.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 12, 2007, 01:24:04 PM
Re: Syracuse. Yes, it was a joke that they were snubbed (cue Caz Bombers for his strong dissent from the forthcoming opinion). I think Syracuse was better than Illinois, Stanford, Texas Tech, Arkansas, and Georgia Tech. In general, it's obvious that the ACC was overrated and the Big East was underrated. I mean, giving Duke and Notre Dame the exact same seed? Are you kidding me?! Including conference tourney play, here are the numbers:

Notre Dame
12-6 in conference play (4th of 16)
4-3 vs other Big East teams that made NCAA Tourney (plus, 2-0 vs Syracuse should make this 6-3)
Record since February 1: 6-3
**played G'town to the wire in the BE Tourney and lost when Russell Carter missed a wide-open three at buzzer (did the committee even watch this game, especially since they purported to take conference tourneys more seriously than ever before?)

Duke
8-9 in conference play (T-6th of 12)
3-7 vs other ACC teams that made the NCAA Tourney (two of the wins were against BC playing without Sean Williams)
0-6 vs Maryland, UNC, Va Tech, UVa (way to win against the quality of your conference)
Record since Feb 1: 4-7

I'm not even being biased here, but to compare the way these two teams have played over the last month would be ludicrous. Notre Dame should have been about a #4 seed and Duke should have been an #8 or #9. Also, how is Ga Tech's resume better than Syracuse's. I'm sick of hearing about the RPI, a statistic that once had Clemson at #1 and had Souther Illinois in the top 5 all season. As Boeheim said, if 10 wins in the Big East isn't enough to make the NCAA Tournament then I'm not sure what Syracuse has to do (cue "play someone out of conference" argument from Caz Bombers, to hell with the fact that OK State, Wichita State, Drexel, and Hofstra were all picked in their respective conference preseason polls to be in the top five of those conferences...can't really control how those teams end up). Syracuse has played that type of schedule for 31 years and it never was used as a crutch like it is now. Cuse was peaking at the right time and they were snubbed for teams like Illinois (only quality wins were against Indiana!) and Stanford. Unbelievable.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 12, 2007, 02:27:55 PM
It pains me to see everyone on espn putting georgetown in the elite 8 when just a month ago i watched syracuse handle them in the dome. It was electric there and you could really see how rautins and the bigs were really starting to play well towards the end of the season. That bizarre loss to villanova at the end i think is what did them in. All i can think of is they have been an early exit the last couple of years. But if you are deciding who gets in and who doesn't based on last season then why are half of those teams there? really a rediculous point to be making i know.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 12, 2007, 02:30:27 PM
My biggest problem is with Stanford.  They finished 18-12.  They did not have a single significant conference road win.  They finished the regular season by going 4-7 (Cuse went 7-3).  Syracuse was the only team to beat Georgetown (and blow them out) in their final 16 games.

Furthermore, if there is one "black and white" rule that should apply to an at-large selection for the NCAA tournament it is this:  If you can't finish .500 in your league, you don't deserve a bid.  Freaking Arkansas even played in a crappy league -- the SEC West.

Any observer could see Syracuse was playing their best ball towards the end of the season.  They are simply better than Stanford, Arkansas, and Purdue.  If the objective is to get the best 34 teams into those slots, the NCAA committee did not do it. 

I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist, but I firmly believe they had other objectives this season.  It makes no sense otherwise.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 12, 2007, 02:32:15 PM
And whatever jacka$$ was insulting SMALT not smaltz on the board earlier (bamm) doesn't know anything about what he's been doing for the past 3 years. As a freshman he practiced every day with dan mcsweeney, charlie zahn, beigel and corie hepburn. The following year with mcsweeney, beigel and bennet. And this year he's been banging with mcsweeney (could have been an allamerican selection if he kept up his play all season) all season again and some big tough freshmen. He can come off the bench and get 6 points and 4 boards before you have a chance to blink and i am just itching in my seat to see what he'll be able to accomplish next year in a starting 5 man position. Look for Matt Haley if he returns to get some quality time next year (most athletic kid on the team)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 12, 2007, 02:33:41 PM
Quote from: bamm on March 12, 2007, 02:30:27 PM
My biggest problem is with Stanford.  They finished 18-12.  They did not have a single significant conference road win.  They finished the regular season by going 4-7 (Cuse went 7-3).  Syracuse was the only team to beat Georgetown (and blow them out) in their final 16 games.

Furthermore, if there is one "black and white" rule that should apply to an at-large selection for the NCAA tournament it is this:  If you can't finish .500 in your league, you don't deserve a bid.  Freaking Arkansas even played in a crappy league -- the SEC West.

Any observer could see Syracuse was playing their best ball towards the end of the season.  They are simply better than Stanford, Arkansas, and Purdue.  If the objective is to get the best 34 teams into those slots, the NCAA committee did not do it. 

I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist, but I firmly believe they had other objectives this season.  It makes no sense otherwise.




now this is something you are making sense on... i agree completely
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 12, 2007, 02:48:03 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 12, 2007, 02:32:15 PM
And whatever jacka$$ was insulting SMALT not smaltz on the board earlier (bamm) doesn't know anything about what he's been doing for the past 3 years. As a freshman he practiced every day with dan mcsweeney, charlie zahn, beigel and corie hepburn. The following year with mcsweeney, beigel and bennet. And this year he's been banging with mcsweeney (could have been an allamerican selection if he kept up his play all season) all season again and some big tough freshmen. He can come off the bench and get 6 points and 4 boards before you have a chance to blink and i am just itching in my seat to see what he'll be able to accomplish next year in a starting 5 man position. Look for Matt Haley if he returns to get some quality time next year (most athletic kid on the team)

1 -- Read my post.  Did I type "Smaltz"?  No.  So what are you talking about?

2 -- I didn't insult him either.  I asked how I was supposed to be impressed by him.  I did this because FisherDynasty used his name as part of an argument that Fisher would be better than Ithaca next year.  Now, Fisher may fair better than Ithaca, but Smalt is a 3 year player who has never started and never averaged more than a handful of minutes a game.  He's been an OK player off the bench for them, but nobody's screaming "sixth man of the year" here.

I understand he may be your friend, you know him, whatever.  But grow up, dude.  We're having an honest discussion here, and if you think Isiah Smalt is going to be decent next season you could probably say it without calling me a "jacka$$".  Just realize that no one else is "itching in" their seats to see what he can do.  If he fills in admirably, great. 

3 -- Dan McSweeney was not going to be an All-American.  Not even close.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 12, 2007, 02:52:57 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 12, 2007, 02:32:15 PM
(could have been an allamerican selection if _________ )

There are about 1000 players in America saying the same thing about themselves.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 12, 2007, 02:57:30 PM
i was addressing several people in that post... i realize you do not refer to him as smaltz and i'm sorry i thought when you were askign why you were supposed to be impressed that was insulting his ability to play the game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DirkDiggler on March 12, 2007, 04:20:48 PM
I heard Syracuse scheduled Hartwick and Alfred for next year.  That should help their strength of schedule.  But it is at the Dome though.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 12, 2007, 04:23:43 PM
Quote from: DirkDiggler on March 12, 2007, 04:20:48 PM
I heard Syracuse scheduled Hartwick and Alfred for next year.  That should help their strength of schedule.  But it is at the Dome though.

No matter how terrible I feel because 'Cuse got jobbed, that is still funny.  Well done.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 12, 2007, 05:30:51 PM
After sleeping on it, I think I'd put Drexel and Syracuse in and replace Stanford and either Illinois, Arkansas or Texas Tech.  TT is absolutely the Big 12 version of Cuse (beat nobody OOC, pointed to 2 big league wins to offset the general unimpressiveness of the rest of their body of work.)  TT beat the Hogs on a neutral court, so let's just toss Arky instead.  Stanford finished 6th in a 10-team league and lost 4 of its last 5...seems to go against the committee's stated criteria that how you finish matters.

A Deadspin commenter made a great point.  Last year the committee sent a bigtime message that the OOC schedule matters to everybody, including the big boys.  That should have put everybody on notice.  Jim Boeheim chose to not listen and keep doing what he always does, sit in his Dome until January.  This is what happens, Jimmy.  There's a great big world outside upstate New York with Division I basketball teams in it...take a tour this November-December and you'll be back in the Dance.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: AUPepBand on March 12, 2007, 11:30:37 PM
Quote from: DirkDiggler on March 12, 2007, 04:20:48 PM
I heard Syracuse scheduled Hartwick and Alfred for next year.  That should help their strength of schedule.  But it is at the Dome though.

Glad to hear the 'cuse is renewing its rivalry with Alfred. Pep has actually seen footage of their last meeting....in 16mm format. Go Saxons!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: whatman on March 13, 2007, 08:19:21 AM
Quote from: bamm on March 12, 2007, 11:10:38 AM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 12, 2007, 10:34:00 AM
just pointing out the facts  8)! haha

What facts were you pointing out?  I'm pretty sure there's no way a 2007-2008 prediction, under any circumstances, is a fact.

Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 12, 2007, 10:27:13 AM
Bamm im not trying to be a jerk here, but stop being silly.  If fisher is not the E8 favorite next year then something is wrong with whoever is making the votes. 

I said "Ithaca could be the favorites".  Yeah, I'm completely shocked this offended you.  What does "being silly" mean? 

I'd take Burton, Leahy, and Bostic over Newman, Beigal, and Baltz all day.  And under what set of "facts" am I supposed to be impressed by Isiah Smalt?  Is he going to guard Bostic?  That should be fun.

I'm not saying Fisher won't contend.  I just like Ithaca's players a bit more.  We have a long time to wait and see.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: ScotsFan on March 13, 2007, 08:58:52 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 12, 2007, 05:30:51 PM
A Deadspin commenter made a great point.  Last year the committee sent a bigtime message that the OOC schedule matters to everybody, including the big boys.  That should have put everybody on notice.  Jim Boeheim chose to not listen and keep doing what he always does, sit in his Dome until January.  This is what happens, Jimmy.  There's a great big world outside upstate New York with Division I basketball teams in it...take a tour this November-December and you'll be back in the Dance.
Great point!  Instead of continuing to whine about not getting in, maybe Jimmy B should start working on beefing up that OOC schedule for next season and he won't be in this position again next March!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 13, 2007, 09:56:10 AM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 13, 2007, 08:58:52 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 12, 2007, 05:30:51 PM
A Deadspin commenter made a great point.  Last year the committee sent a bigtime message that the OOC schedule matters to everybody, including the big boys.  That should have put everybody on notice.  Jim Boeheim chose to not listen and keep doing what he always does, sit in his Dome until January.  This is what happens, Jimmy.  There's a great big world outside upstate New York with Division I basketball teams in it...take a tour this November-December and you'll be back in the Dance.
Great point!  Instead of continuing to whine about not getting in, maybe Jimmy B should start working on beefing up that OOC schedule for next season and he won't be in this position again next March!

I consider this irrelevant to this particular tournament.  Regardless of OOC schedule, Syracuse still had a better overall record, road record, and just as impressive quality home/road wins than the most questionable teams that got in (Stanford, Arkansas).

Gary Walters called Daryl Gross (SU AD) and apparently said the following regarding their decision:

"At the end of the day, the consensus of the group was that Syracuse wasn't one of the 34 best at-large teams... it's only because the quantitative data that we had in front of us, one can use to either support or detract from an argument."

In other words, they thought the data regarding the bubble teams (SOS, RPI, etc) couldn't give them a clear picture.  So they subjectively chose the last few teams based on who they considered the better teams. 

If that's true, I can't believe they chose Stanford over Cuse.  Stanford lost 4 of their last 5 games!  They are 18-12.  They are playing their worst basketball of the season.

'Cuse is playing their best basketball of the season.

It's a terrible decision.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 13, 2007, 10:27:48 AM
As much as it sucks that cuse is not in which takes half of the interest of the tourny away from me.  They should not have lost to some of the teams they lost to plain in simple.  Do i think they deserve gettin in over some of the other teams definatly, i thought they were a lock after the Gtown win and Uconn win.  But they were very hard to watch this year, some games would look very good, some games awful.  The team awareness on cuse is like -5.  Devendorf although has been playing good i cant stand him sometimes, watkins and roberts are airheads, and paul harris can even make a 15 footer all though i do like him a lot.  Idk, yeah they should be in, but they shouldnt have left it up to the schedulers, should have took care of business earlier in the season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 13, 2007, 10:59:35 AM
I was reading this post and waiting for:

Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 13, 2007, 10:27:48 AM
As much as it sucks that cuse is not in which takes half of the interest of the tourny away from me.  They should not have lost to some of the teams they lost to plain in simple.  Do i think they deserve gettin in over some of the other teams definatly, i thought they were a lock after the Gtown win and Uconn win.  But they were very hard to watch this year, some games would look very good, some games awful.  The team awareness on cuse is like -5.  Devendorf although has been playing good i cant stand him sometimes, watkins and roberts are airheads, and paul harris can even make a 15 footer all though i do like him a lot.  Idk, yeah they should be in, but they shouldnt have left it up to the schedulers, should have took care of business earlier in the season.
...I mean, Fisher could beat Syracuse, but only if the game was at Fisher.

I guess FD is learning some restraint.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 13, 2007, 11:27:02 AM
Fisher takes care of business in the regular season so they dont have to worry about not gettin in the tourny 8)

jose always has it in for me :P


Fishers 28-0 reg season squad at home vs 2006 Orangemen = Fisher +5  ;D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 13, 2007, 11:27:22 AM
I bet i can guess the response on this one.....


Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 13, 2007, 12:04:00 PM
i'm just sick of jose queervo never having anything but sarcastic remarks

I agree fisher fans are rather high on their horses sometimes but you just constantly add to the fire
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 13, 2007, 12:08:05 PM
Hey Fisherdyn- any word on recruiting a local New Hartford product Ron Evans to Fisher?
He is one hell of a player- and had it narrowed down to a few schools including Fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 13, 2007, 12:42:56 PM
Quote from: bamm on March 12, 2007, 02:30:27 PM
My biggest problem is with Stanford.  They finished 18-12.  They did not have a single significant conference road win.  They finished the regular season by going 4-7 (Cuse went 7-3).  Syracuse was the only team to beat Georgetown (and blow them out) in their final 16 games.

Furthermore, if there is one "black and white" rule that should apply to an at-large selection for the NCAA tournament it is this:  If you can't finish .500 in your league, you don't deserve a bid.  Freaking Arkansas even played in a crappy league -- the SEC West.

Any observer could see Syracuse was playing their best ball towards the end of the season.  They are simply better than Stanford, Arkansas, and Purdue.  If the objective is to get the best 34 teams into those slots, the NCAA committee did not do it. 

I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist, but I firmly believe they had other objectives this season.  It makes no sense otherwise.




Here's a conspiracy for ya... think about it if you are on the selection committee. Where are you going to make the most money? By putting Syracuse in the NCAA tournament and sending them somewhere far away from NY? Or lets see, lets make them a high seed in the NIT, make it almost certain for them to go to NYC, and they still sell out the Garden, making tons of money for the NCAA, since the NCAA bought out the NIT 2 or 3 years ago?

Think about that one for a minute. BTW, Go Albany! I think they have a chance against Virginia.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 13, 2007, 01:01:19 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 13, 2007, 12:04:00 PM
i'm just sick of jose queervo never having anything but sarcastic remarks

That is actually the funniest nickname yet.  You need to school fan of d3.  The Chair happily encourages free dissent in E8Nation.

Quote from: keystonelight on March 13, 2007, 12:04:00 PM
I agree fisher fans are rather high on their horses sometimes but you just constantly add to the fire

The Chair will stipulate that the Fisher fans are certainly high on something.

As for adding to the fire, the Chair likes to encourage robust debate in E8Nation.  He also feels it neccessary to prevent any of the E8Nation denizens from becoming too impressed with themselves or taking their posts too seriously.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 13, 2007, 01:03:31 PM
FisherAlum,  hmm im not sure.  I would hope so if he's one hell of a player.  I do know that Fisher has a good 6'5 guard coming in, possible 2 guard from Rush-Henrietta who is good, and some others.  I also, know that a few key recruits have dropped off and committed elsewhere, and the remaining recruits are still in process of making a decision.  If Fisher can get 2 good Frosh to contribute, it will be key to next years success.  Specifically in the shooting guard, small forward slots.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 13, 2007, 01:05:40 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 13, 2007, 01:01:19 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 13, 2007, 12:04:00 PM
i'm just sick of jose queervo never having anything but sarcastic remarks

That is actually the funniest nickname yet.  You need to school fan of d3.  The Chair happily encourages free dissent in E8Nation.

Quote from: keystonelight on March 13, 2007, 12:04:00 PM
I agree fisher fans are rather high on their horses sometimes but you just constantly add to the fire

The Chair will stipulate that the Fisher fans are certainly high on something.

As for adding to the fire, the Chair likes to encourage robust debate in E8Nation.  He also feels it neccessary to prevent any of the E8Nation denizens from becoming too impressed with themselves or taking their posts too seriously.

Q,

I don't recall you being named chair of the E8 basketball boards. You've been an absentee chair on football already -- I definitely don't recognize your self appointment here.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: fisheralum91 on March 13, 2007, 01:15:13 PM
fisher dyn- he was the guard for the sec III class A champs.
Leading scorer and a big talent!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 13, 2007, 01:28:10 PM
Serious question Fisher fans... are freshmen the key again next year?

13 came in... are the ones we haven't seen already being recruited over?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 13, 2007, 01:34:41 PM
Quote from: budcrew08 on March 13, 2007, 12:42:56 PM

Think about that one for a minute. BTW, Go Albany! I think they have a chance against Virginia.

This is two years in a row for Albany.  I will be in Glens Falls this weekend (HS Boys Championships).  They played a late Friday game against UConn last year that made for great drama inside a local Irish Pub (lots of drunken locals and HS fans cheering them on).  This year they play an early afternoon game (12:15) on Friday, and while I may be at the bar again (OK, I definitely will be)... can't guarantee the drama will be the same.

BTW... I spotted Kornaker at least year's Campbell-Savona/Stillwater Class C championship game (he was scouting Matt Newman, who dominated the game).  I didn't see any other E8 coaches, though I'll keep my eyes open again.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 13, 2007, 01:39:09 PM
Cadillac, Freshmen in my opinion wont win you the big tourny games so they wont exacly be key again next year, however, having 2 major fresh contributors would be the type of boost to get back to the sweet 16, as there are a number of starters coming back.  I dont think a freshmen would be able to come in and start as a big over smalt or beigal right away.  I think the big guys as freshmen this year are very talented, just need that year to get stronger, look for 1-2 to get some quality minutes and contribute next year.  Also, Newman and baltz will not lose their starting positions to freshmen either, and bearden will be a senior and he has started a few games this year so look for him to start.  Out of the the 5 likely starters, he is the most likely to get beat out by an incoming talent.  Fisher will need more depth at the guard positions tho, the returners mckeaver and coyne are okay for the pg position but the 2-3 spots are very shallow.  The only player fisher could squeeze in there is billy liddel who is going to be good but i dont think will be ready to get 20 min agame next year.  Out of the 13 fresh from last year look for about 4 of them to get cut, and another 2-3 quitting. I'm not really sure how  hard of workers this fresh class is but if the get stronger and continue to improve like past fisher players then another could squeeze in the line-up by 2nd semester of next year. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 13, 2007, 02:45:51 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 13, 2007, 01:05:40 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 13, 2007, 01:01:19 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 13, 2007, 12:04:00 PM
i'm just sick of jose queervo never having anything but sarcastic remarks

That is actually the funniest nickname yet.  You need to school fan of d3.  The Chair happily encourages free dissent in E8Nation.

Quote from: keystonelight on March 13, 2007, 12:04:00 PM
I agree fisher fans are rather high on their horses sometimes but you just constantly add to the fire

The Chair will stipulate that the Fisher fans are certainly high on something.

As for adding to the fire, the Chair likes to encourage robust debate in E8Nation.  He also feels it neccessary to prevent any of the E8Nation denizens from becoming too impressed with themselves or taking their posts too seriously.

Q,

I don't recall you being named chair of the E8 basketball boards. You've been an absentee chair on football already -- I definitely don't recognize your self appointment here.

While the Chairman is perfectly happy to defer to the Secretary General of the D3UN, he feels the need to respond in kind.

The Chairman has kept a watchful eye on E8Nation during the winter but does not find the need to micromanage or rule with a heavy fist.  Furthermore, while I am not the Chairman of the E8 hoop board, E8Nation lays claim to the E8 Hoop Board as a protectorate, similar to that of Puerto Rico.

We further welcome all denizens of E8 Hoop PP to fully participate in the representative democracy on E8Nation.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 13, 2007, 07:35:47 PM
bud I dispute your point because the could have let cuse play the first and second round in Buffalo...which would have been a huge draw...almost like how they played at the Pepsi Arena in 2003 in the sweet 16 and elite 8
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: whatman on March 14, 2007, 08:54:46 AM
To Cadillac and Dynasty.......I agree most likely Newman and Baltz won't lose their starting positions because they are both "golden boys" in Kornacker's eyes. Their were many times this year when Coyne and McKeever came off the bench and provided Fisher with quality minutes. McKeever and Coyne are much better defenders then both Baltz and Newman hands down. Newman gave up nearly 30 points to Harris in the tourney game. McKeever in the 4 or 5 minutes he did play shut down Canori after he scored 16 points in like 10 minutes the first time Fisher played Naz.   The problem is they both would come into the game for maybe 4 minutes at a time. It's kind of hard to get into the flow of the game when you get in for that amount of time. I think Bearden will start and play just as much as Mueller did this year. He is a good defender and has proven he can be a scorer. I think if Coyne and McKeever want more minutes they will have to score and that goes hand and hand with playing more minutes. I hope Kornacker shows a little more loyalty to the upper classmen than he has in the past (Fenyn perfect example).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 14, 2007, 09:53:20 AM
Whatman, Yes mckeever and coyne did play well at times and are better defenders then both newman (depending on the match up newman is better at guarding bigger players not as good as smaller quicker) and baltz who makes up for his lack of D on th O end but is a liability when not hitting the shots.  But he does rebound fairly well better then coyne and mckeever.  I think the rotation will be the same not bc they are the golden boys but because both newman and baltz have more uprise in their games, both will be very good.  I think Mckeever and Coyne will need to try to stay positive and just paly wihtin the system, take it game by game, some games they will out play newman and get a lot of minutes, others they may have to sit.  Its going to depend on the match ups and the flow of the game.  Mckeever has had some big games but also some non factor games, same with Coyne.  Coyne usually provides good D non turnovers and a few big shots here and there but doesnt have the fire power or size to get a ton of minutes.  There were times id be sitting on the sideline hopeing for him to get more bc i feel like he does turn the ball over the least out of all 3 and is he very determined.  They are just going to have to understand that all 3 are good but only 1 can start, if they can get that in their heads all 3 should have good years.  Its going to be tough when im sure they are sitting on the bench at times thinking they can do better then the other but all 3 did have starting spots this year and newman clearly won/earned the spot.  All 3 offer different things, Newman better penetrater, better vision: Mckeever probably the best D and best shot: Coyne Best handle and most consistent.  Their senior leadership will be very important next year, but Newman is the up and coming and if they are going to go anywheres far he is going to need to lead the ship. Growth from Freshmen year to sophmore year is huge and it will show come season time next year. 


I do agree it is very hard to come into a game 4 minutes at a time, that is where Kornacker is a little flawed in his coaching, he gives up on people very quickly and makes judgements in a very short period of time.  Some people just need minutes to produce.   but that is irrelevant to this scenario seeing that all 3 had starting positions for multiple games this year.   Kornacker does put a little bit of pressure on being able to score but doesnt base playing time at the pg spot on it.  Newman does not shoot a lot neither did matt st. croix when he started at the PG position. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 14, 2007, 10:35:19 AM
If you guys paid real close attention...McKeever never started a game this season.
Also McKeever has by far the best handle on the team and he displayed that against brockport. Coyne and McK. can come out and play lockdown defense which requires an intensity that i think newman will find this next year. However newman is the golden boy in kornakers eyes there is no denying that and if he gets up the confidence to shoot like i know he can it will be tough to rip the starting job away from him, near impossible. Newman practically single handedly won a state championship for Campbell-Savona next year and won co-mvp honors along with Will Cornett who is playing at the Falls again this weekend and is now the teams leader. p.s. cornett is also still looking at fisher.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 14, 2007, 01:31:31 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 13, 2007, 07:35:47 PM
bud I dispute your point because the could have let cuse play the first and second round in Buffalo...which would have been a huge draw...almost like how they played at the Pepsi Arena in 2003 in the sweet 16 and elite 8

They couldn't have let them play in Buffalo... They weren't a high seed like Duke was, and they have go to Buffalo from NC to play VCU...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: whatman on March 14, 2007, 01:35:00 PM
I just hope Kornacker realizes the mistakes he made this year as far as substitions go. Yes Fisher did win a lot of games but there were some that could of went either way. It just puzzled me that Mckeever and Coyne would come into lets say a Friday night game, play well and never see the floor on Saturday. It was like Kornacker and company forgot about them. Next year is going to be much different for Fisher and Kornacker is going to need to play Mckeever, Coyne, Bearden simply for their experience. They do not lose anything when those guys play. At times this year the team actually played better. There is no doubt Newman, Baltz are going to be the next stars at Fisher but it's my opinion that Newman never "won" the starting pg job. I think Kornacker had his mind made up from day one.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 14, 2007, 01:56:13 PM
Whatman - I agree with almost everything you said.

IMO, McKeever should have guarded Harris in the second half vs. Brockport and the coaches have admitted as much.  Coyne and McK played some nice minutes this year.  I hope they don't get Fenyned (or Gilletted).

For the record, I'm a huge Newman fan too.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 14, 2007, 01:59:21 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 14, 2007, 10:35:19 AM
p.s. cornett is also still looking at fisher.

As much as I'd like to see Newman and Cornett in a backcourt again, I just don't think it would work.  Cornett is very hesitant to shoot.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: whatman on March 14, 2007, 02:27:00 PM
I just have a strange feeling they will be Fenyned and Gilleted....I see Kiernan saw the light and got the hell out of dodge. It's too late for the other two.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 14, 2007, 02:43:34 PM
I agree with the post about they will need those 3 for experience.  I also think those 3 getting some good game experience this year will contribute to them being more mature and confident on the court next year, I think  they all will have good years.  The only thing about playing newman more even tho it might not make much of a diff from coyne and mckeaver is that as you say it newman may be the next fisher star, early career game time experience is the only way to achieve that.  It is crucial for a players development.  If he can play as good as an upperclassmen you should always sway towards the young player for terms of development.  However, at certain times in the game the older players should get then go, which has happened at times, but not everytime.  It is a tough situation for coyne and mckeaver but it doesnt look like they will be knocked out of the loop next year.  At worst, another rotation like that of this year.

As far as being fenyned or Gilleted, idk if we would go that far.  Fenyn did underachieve in his 4 year stature, but most of it was his own fault or to injury's.  Its just too hard for a coach to get a player involved if they are rarely eligible to play or able to play.  But yes this year was hard to watch fenyn on the bench knowing that he was one of the more talented players, but again he was hurt when he finally got the start so sitting out few games, is tough to get back into the swing, specially with a quick judment coach like kornacker.  Once the time is passed its passed, tough to remake a mark for yourself.

I dont think pete gillet ever got screwed over for playing time.  He played 20 min sop-senior year but new his role and what was expected of him.  he was not good enough to start for fisher those years so he didnt and understood that.  He was key to their success from the bench.  What players need to realize specially if your trying to compete for a national title you need a minimum of 8-9 players that are good enough to start, but they have to accept their roles and contribute from the bench.  15 minutes a game for playing for a great program is tough when you know you could start on most other teams in the league or other upstate leagues.  Just have to decide if youd rather play more on an average team or contribute when needed on a good team. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 14, 2007, 09:27:59 PM
I think we're talking about two different things here.

I'm talking about two contributors who were inexplicably forgotten about during the final stretch of their senior years.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 15, 2007, 12:38:10 AM
as for Bobby Kiernan getting the hell outta dodge... all i have to say about that is CONGRATULATIONS  :)   He'll be immortalized in our hearts forever :D
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 15, 2007, 12:38:44 AM
cue humorous response from dirk diggler
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on March 15, 2007, 01:08:39 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on February 26, 2007, 04:03:46 PM
I think it is poor sportsman ship to not accept the bid...the seniors deserve one last hoorah...Utica would have clearly been the #1 seed and would ave had home games...to sit at home and pout because you choked at the end of the season is wrong

UC didn't put their name in for the tournament, so they did not turn down a bid. They decided it was NCAA or nothing long before the end of the season. Not only did the players not want to play ecac, they might not have been able too.  At least 4 of the key players played pretty much the last month injured. Ray and Jack being two of them. The numbers they put up while injured were actually more than impressive. I was proud of them.

Man, having a new baby in the house gets you really far behind on these things. Had to go back 30 pages.

Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 15, 2007, 01:06:11 PM
How will UC look next year?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 15, 2007, 08:48:03 PM
hopefully UC will be good next year...thats the only game other than the naz game that i look forward to
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 15, 2007, 09:56:10 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 15, 2007, 08:48:03 PM
hopefully UC will be good next year...thats the only game other than the naz game that i look forward to

I wouldn't look forward to RIT beating you at home again next year either.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 15, 2007, 11:16:17 PM
hey... i don't even go to fisher...but you are awefully arrogant considering most teams could win 1 time out of 4 :) if they couldn't... there wouldn't be any reason to even play the games and they shouldn't even be a program
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 15, 2007, 11:51:32 PM
p.s. we'll make a special exception for elmira
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 16, 2007, 02:09:28 AM
Quote from: whatman on March 14, 2007, 01:35:00 PM
I just hope Kornacker realizes the mistakes he made this year as far as substitions go. Yes Fisher did win a lot of games but there were some that could of went either way. It just puzzled me that Mckeever and Coyne would come into lets say a Friday night game, play well and never see the floor on Saturday. It was like Kornacker and company forgot about them. Next year is going to be much different for Fisher and Kornacker is going to need to play Mckeever, Coyne, Bearden simply for their experience. They do not lose anything when those guys play. At times this year the team actually played better. There is no doubt Newman, Baltz are going to be the next stars at Fisher but it's my opinion that Newman never "won" the starting pg job. I think Kornacker had his mind made up from day one.

Seems to me that winning a lot of games that could have gone either way would be a sign of a good coach, and good coaching decisions...would it not?
I am sure players like Mckeever and Coyne will get a lot more playing time next year. As well as the team did play with them in the game at times, Newman looked like the best player at the point guard spot to me. I am really looking forward to seeing how Newman and Baltz progress next year. I think with the two of them, Beigel and Smalt comming back I think that Fisher could be a frontrunner for the league next year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 16, 2007, 02:39:19 AM
i think they have to be
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: whatman on March 16, 2007, 08:41:26 AM
sjfcards....Are you sure they are going to play a lot next year? I have my doubts big time....I guess Newman did look the best since he played the most. The other two got in for 4 minutes at a time. I don't really think he has given them a chance. I know for a fact McKeaver hasn't been given a chance. Injuries last year i guess did him in since he was recruited to play pg out of highschool. He played more 2 guard than pg this year. He has a much better handle than Newman and both of them play better defense. Hey but what do i know. I am simply a spectator with a little insight. That's one sad thing about D3 hoops, coaches have to recruit a crap load of players and in Fisher's case they have 3 pg and two get the short end of the stick. Both McKeever and Coyne could start anywhere else in the Empire 8 at pg.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 16, 2007, 09:05:34 AM
I'd take Doug Herrig - Utica
             Sean Burton - Ithaca
                   Mcadam - Naz
               Zeinfeld     - RIT
              Palentino    - Stevens
                COCO        - Hartwick
       
Over Coyne or McKeaver.  Nothing against the two, they are solid but can't make the impact the players mentioned above can.  This is coming from someone that says Fishers 2nd squad could be runner up most years too. However, the PG position is finally at a strongpoint in the E8.
             
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 16, 2007, 09:29:46 AM
I don't know if i would take them over McKeever... you can't really make that type of judgement until you see him get the opportunities those guys have gotten.

But as far as the position you are right... the pg spot is as strong as its ever been across the board.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 16, 2007, 09:52:58 AM
keystone and whatman, who do you think will start next year not considering any new players.  and who do you have coming off the bench (first 4 players and min per game).
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 16, 2007, 10:54:32 AM
Newman (30 mpg)
Baltz (30)
Bearden (20)
Beigel (30)
Smalt (30)

McKeever (20 at the 2, can play big minutes at the 1)
Coyne (10)
Haley (10)

That leaves room for 2 freshmen or shirt-and-tie sophomores to crack the rotation, which IMO will happen.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: whatman on March 16, 2007, 04:54:06 PM
I would agree with Cadillac....

I would also agree with Keystone's above post....McKeever has never gotten a chance to show what type of impact he can have. I know he did score 20 in a JV game this year against a very good Monroe Comm College team that had Divisoin 1 players. Who knows...i hope Coyne and him get more than 4 minutes next year.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 16, 2007, 05:44:37 PM
That starting line up looks really good to me for next year. I would also look for Matt Haley to play a lot of meaningful minutes next year. He started to play a small amount this year, and Kornaker likes to go 3 deep in the big man positions. Beigle and Smalt are going to be the go to guys obviously.

I would also look for Kornaker to hit the recruiting trail hard again this year to hopefully find some freshman that can make an impact right away. Like Newman and Baltz did this year.

Anybody have a look at the other teams in the league, and what they have comming back next year. Obviously it is way to early to have any real insight...but any talk about the league is a good thing.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 16, 2007, 06:18:26 PM
Anybody else having problems getting the video link for the final four to work...?

I can't seem to get the video page up.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Amherst95 on March 17, 2007, 04:32:17 AM
Hello E8 fans.  I just wanted to (re-) plant the seed for a NESCAC-E8 series . . . we are geographically and competitively well matched plus the SJF fans were more than classy in their recent visits to Amherst.

And if I'm being perfectly honest, I really want an excuse to throw down a garbage plate or two!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 17, 2007, 09:31:00 AM
I would be up for that and I think all of the Fisher Fans would LOVE to give Amherst a game in Varsity Gym
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bamm on March 17, 2007, 11:54:56 AM
Day 2 at glens falls.  so far i've only spotted coach daley from naz, who was watching mike baker of ogdensburg last night (16 pts, 12 assists in a win).

Baker is apparently down to geneseo or naz
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 17, 2007, 12:58:09 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 17, 2007, 09:31:00 AM
I would be up for that and I think all of the Fisher Fans would LOVE to give Amherst a game in Varsity Gym

Only in  Varsity gym because (most) Fisher fans, deep down, don't believe they could beat a team like Amherst in their gym.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 17, 2007, 01:20:53 PM
bud have you ever been to LeFrak...I'll openly admit that I don't think we could win at LeFrak maybe 2 out of 10 or so...but if Amherst is on at home they are almost imposible to defeat. and the Fans are incredibly loud and well organized
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 17, 2007, 03:39:19 PM
I would say that Amherst fans are the best d3 fans i've ever seen.

The way amherst played last year in amherst against fisher... i dare say they would give some d1 teams a run for there money.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 17, 2007, 03:50:22 PM
I think that Newman, Baltz, Bearden, Beigel and Smalt is the only logical starting 5 barring some rediculous freshman 3 man to replace bearden as a starter, otherwise i think the positions are locked up.

first 4 people off the bench i think will be Haley, McKeever, Coyne and either Wopperer or Lidell.

If next season is like this season definitely lidell.

As far as freshman go i'd look for someone who can share the shooting load with baltz, maybe a mueller-esque player, a serviceable 3 man and a center (oh yeah and 12 other kids)

Beigel (30)
Smalt (25)
Newman(25)
Baltz (30)
Bearden (20)
----------------
Haley (10-15)
McKeever (15-20)
Coyne (10)
Lidell (5-10)
Wopperer (5)

Freshman i think will take up the rest, i think the kids in shirts and ties have already been written off and the kids on the end of the bench that will get in when they are up big are probably seiberg and evans.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 17, 2007, 04:28:05 PM
the only other possible starting 5 that i can think of would be

1. Newman
2. Baltz
3. Beigel
4. Smalt
5. Haley

this might actually be what we see next year...atleast experimented with
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 17, 2007, 07:37:42 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 17, 2007, 04:28:05 PM
the only other possible starting 5 that i can think of would be

1. Newman
2. Baltz
3. Beigel
4. Smalt
5. Haley

this might actually be what we see next year...atleast experimented with

I heard that too.  I can't see it happening though.

At this point, Haley's further along than the other backup bigs.  Smalt's 10-15 minutes off the bench should open up for him right away, and he'll be needed late in games when Beigel or Smalt foul out... and they will foul out.

I can't see Fisher putting a banger instead of a shooter at the 3.  I know Beigel found a 3 ball late in the season somewhere, but he's got to be wide open to even think about throwing it up there.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on March 17, 2007, 07:45:11 PM
The key to next season for Fisher is replacing Mueller.

I don't think anyone is worried about Smalt and Bearden replacing McSweeney and Fenyn.  I've seen McKeever and Coyne shoot it well; they're just going to have to shoot it with Mueller's abandon.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 17, 2007, 07:55:10 PM
congratulations amherst
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Amherst95 on March 17, 2007, 08:09:48 PM
Thanks!

Superman57, can we borrow that picture please?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Amherst95 on March 17, 2007, 08:11:44 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 17, 2007, 03:39:19 PM
I would say that Amherst fans are the best d3 fans i've ever seen.

The way amherst played last year in amherst against fisher... i dare say they would give some d1 teams a run for there money.

Not for nothing but we beat UMass in a scrimmage the year before that.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 17, 2007, 11:05:11 PM
of course you can take the picture no need to ask...I stole it from some website
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on March 18, 2007, 12:35:55 AM
Quote from: Cadillac on March 15, 2007, 01:06:11 PM
How will UC look next year?


A lot will depend on Freshmen and tranfers of course.

Herring will continue to be one of the best players in the league.

Munch is the best defensive player in the conference and one of the best in the country. What most people don't know about him is that if he is needed to score 10 a game, he can.

If Edgar Acevedo still has eligibility, he will be a big contributer, allowing Herring to slide to the off guard position.

Whyte will be a solid contributer. He played in his role this season, but is capable of adding some of the offensive burden left by the departure of this years seniors.

Goodman can play on the post and hit the 3 with consistency. He could turn into a real good player when he is able to be used in the right situation. He too should see an increase in ppg.

McClendon got better with each and every game. He needs more conditioning to be able to run the floor the way Lighthall did, but he does have speed. Could turn into one of the better Centers in the conference.

Preston plays hard every time he is on the floor, but needs to work hard over the summer if he wants to get more PT. Great attitude.

Diaz hardly played as the strength of the UC team was it's guards, but he is a great athlete that can play tough D, rebound, elevate, and looks like he could be a real good player. He is one that I think will end up surprising some people. He has a lot of raw talent and athletic ability, but he needs to refine it.

The returners allow some interesting lineups. Should be a pretty versatile team. However I would expect to see them speeding up games and doing a lot of running as opposed to playing a half court game.


I'm not sure of what the Freshman and transfer situation is yet. But with Goode I am willing to bet that he has some good players that are good for his style of coaching and play.


UC should be competitive again. How competitive will depend on how hard they work in the offseason and how people adjust to new roles. Overall, I wouldn't write them off but I wouldn't guarantee a top 2 finish. It's way to early to speculate. But with the great coach UC has running a quality program, don't expect Utica to go back to what it was like when he first started any time soon.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on March 18, 2007, 12:39:13 AM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 15, 2007, 11:51:32 PM
p.s. we'll make a special exception for elmira


;D Honestly, Elmira would have been a decent team if they had any big men at all. Their guards play very hard. If they add some decent size this year, they could be a top 4 team in the conference a few years down the line. Some good freshmen, but way too small as a roster.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 18, 2007, 02:56:48 AM
i just saw Amherst highlights on espn at 2:53 am  :o

sweeeeet
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 20, 2007, 01:35:05 PM
I heard UC is looking at/getting a 32-year-old for next season. Seriously?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 20, 2007, 02:47:37 PM
i don't know what the age restrictions are or if there even are any but i played soccer at a community college with a 26, 29 and a 30 year old
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 20, 2007, 02:51:09 PM
There aren't any age restrictions. This isn't unheard of.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 20, 2007, 09:59:44 PM
I know that when I was playing soccer at Fisher we played against a team from Boston that had a 33 year old sophomore on the roster...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on March 20, 2007, 10:18:53 PM
Quote from: rjcarter8 on March 20, 2007, 01:35:05 PM
I heard UC is looking at/getting a 32-year-old for next season. Seriously?

lol If you are serious, there is only 1 person I can think of, and he is better than Ray.


I coached college lacrosse when I was 23 and there was a guy who was 28 playing on the team.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 21, 2007, 11:17:55 AM
I hope he's better then Ray  8) maybe they'll the fire power to take the E8 next year.  haha sorry had to do it.

Ucgrad keep us posted on the the incoming players.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 21, 2007, 02:01:00 PM
Things that Utica having 32-year old basketball players in the E8 makes me think of:

A) the Texas State football team from Necessary Roughness playing the prison team that had Jim Kelly, Dick Butkus, Jerry Rice, Herschel Walker, etc.

B) the South Park pee wee hockey team facing the Detroit Red Wings at the Pepsi Center
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cards7580 on March 21, 2007, 05:21:53 PM
If I remember correctly Brockport State had a 28 or 29 year old on their team this year.   
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 21, 2007, 05:27:20 PM
Thats common for Suny schools tho. haha just kiddin
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 21, 2007, 08:21:37 PM
now that I think about it...a few years ago Fisher had Mark Niggli...
I don't remember how old he was, but his nickname in the student section was "the old guy"...he looked like he was 40
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 22, 2007, 01:01:28 AM
and what about Chuck Wagon... a.k.a. Charlie Zahn... he must have been pushing 26?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on March 22, 2007, 09:17:37 AM
and let's not forget Gavin Stackhouse and Brandon Banks who were both older when they played football for fisher
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 22, 2007, 09:30:43 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on March 22, 2007, 09:17:37 AM
and let's not forget Gavin Stackhouse and Brandon Banks who were both older when they played football for fisher

Gavin Stackhouse also is the subject of one of the greatest radio calls in the history of Ithaca College when he was playing football for the Bombers.  In 2001, about two weeks after 9-11, the Bombers were on the road at Mansfield.  The PxP guy opens the broadcast talking about how the Bombers are going to miss Gavin Stackhouse who is in the Nat'l Guard Reserves and has been mobilized and sent overseas.  Two seconds later IC kicks off and the PxP guy says "...and the tackle is made by...umm...Gavin Stackhouse."  Meanwhile, his mother is probably having a coronary somewhere listening to the game thinking her son has been mobilized and didn't tell her.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 22, 2007, 12:19:53 PM
i think i took a sh!t there once...butterfield stadium that is
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on March 22, 2007, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 22, 2007, 12:19:53 PM
i think i took a sh!t there once...butterfield stadium that is

You and Fisher's whole football team.  Usually happens when a sea of Bomber blue is bearing down on them.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 22, 2007, 06:03:20 PM
Man I can not wait for that Fisher/IC game this year...I think I will start the pregame festivities right now...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 23, 2007, 01:47:20 AM
Atleast fisher fans can spell ButteRfield
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on March 23, 2007, 01:51:24 AM
by the way looks like fisher lost at ithaca by a touchdown last year in overtime

oh yeah and this year at Fisher Ithaca almost dropped a few dingleberries getting stomped 34-10
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on March 23, 2007, 06:14:48 PM
Fisher finished the year on the receiving votes spot on the final top 25 (basically 27th). Brockport is up near the top 10 at #12. Plattsburgh and Rochester were both in the receiving votes.

Also, future Empire 8 member Stevens Tech finished at #24...
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 24, 2007, 01:41:51 PM
Not too bad 2 teams from the E8 close to the top 25.  Fisher should be in as well, they were definatly a top 25 team by season end, no question. 
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: umass-jj on March 26, 2007, 03:13:42 PM
Quote from: Amherst95 on March 17, 2007, 08:11:44 PM
Not for nothing but we beat UMass in a scrimmage the year before that.

Come again????  Generally, when one refers to "UMASS", you're talking about the D1 Minutemen from UMASS, Amherst.   I can tell you that nothing of the sort happened.

That said, congrats to Amherst on winning the title.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: UCgrad45 on March 26, 2007, 05:36:19 PM
Quote from: umass-jj on March 26, 2007, 03:13:42 PM
Quote from: Amherst95 on March 17, 2007, 08:11:44 PM
Not for nothing but we beat UMass in a scrimmage the year before that.

Come again????  Generally, when one refers to "UMASS", you're talking about the D1 Minutemen from UMASS, Amherst.   I can tell you that nothing of the sort happened.

That said, congrats to Amherst on winning the title.

Unless you were a member of the team, you can't really say that. Every team plays pre-season scrimmages that the scores are not reported. UC usually plays Potsdam, but outside of people on the team and their families, nobody hears about it.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 27, 2007, 12:34:56 PM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 20, 2007, 10:18:53 PM
Quote from: rjcarter8 on March 20, 2007, 01:35:05 PM
I heard UC is looking at/getting a 32-year-old for next season. Seriously?

lol If you are serious, there is only 1 person I can think of, and he is better than Ray.


Who?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: BobNapoleone on March 27, 2007, 05:46:57 PM
Quote from: Chairman JoseQViper on March 22, 2007, 01:04:01 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 22, 2007, 12:19:53 PM
i think i took a sh!t there once...butterfield stadium that is

You and Fisher's whole football team.  Usually happens when a sea of Bomber blue is bearing down on them.


Jose'.....touche'


Hey Keystone....where do you hail from...?


You must have played....?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 30, 2007, 06:38:22 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 23, 2007, 01:51:24 AM
by the way looks like fisher lost at ithaca by a touchdown last year in overtime

oh yeah and this year at Fisher Ithaca almost dropped a few dingleberries getting stomped 34-10

Great, and you probably should have been down at half, 24-0. Ithaca had a young QB playing his first meaningful game (and a road one, at that) against the IC's (current) biggest rival. There were some missed opportunities, for sure. Fisher deserved the win, but don't come on here and pretend like the Fisher had that game in the bag from opening kickoff to final gun. They got their tails whipped in the first half but IC didn't cash in for a multitude of reasons; that was the difference.

Let's see how Fisher does now that their stud RB is gone. I don't remember James Reile ever having much success against the Bombers (cue angry response from his dad, bemoaning his lack of playing time). Now that I think about it, I'm not even going to call it a rivalry until you win a game in Ithaca.

Fisher will still be an "every other year" type of team until they can win in Ithaca. Also, that game in Springfield this year isn't going to be a cakewalk, either.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on March 30, 2007, 06:41:10 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 15, 2007, 08:48:03 PM
hopefully UC will be good next year...thats the only game other than the naz game that i look forward to

Might want to look forward to the Ithaca games, too. Considering they're going to have the conference's preseason POY (Bostic) and a 1st teamer (Burton), the Bombers should be a good team and contend next season.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: DirkDiggler on March 31, 2007, 12:47:41 AM
If Fisher got their tales whipped in the first half then what happend to Ithaca in the second considering Fisher won?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: sjfcards on April 01, 2007, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on March 30, 2007, 06:38:22 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on March 23, 2007, 01:51:24 AM
by the way looks like fisher lost at ithaca by a touchdown last year in overtime

oh yeah and this year at Fisher Ithaca almost dropped a few dingleberries getting stomped 34-10

Great, and you probably should have been down at half, 24-0. Ithaca had a young QB playing his first meaningful game (and a road one, at that) against the IC's (current) biggest rival. There were some missed opportunities, for sure. Fisher deserved the win, but don't come on here and pretend like the Fisher had that game in the bag from opening kickoff to final gun. They got their tails whipped in the first half but IC didn't cash in for a multitude of reasons; that was the difference.

Let's see how Fisher does now that their stud RB is gone. I don't remember James Reile ever having much success against the Bombers (cue angry response from his dad, bemoaning his lack of playing time). Now that I think about it, I'm not even going to call it a rivalry until you win a game in Ithaca.

Fisher will still be an "every other year" type of team until they can win in Ithaca. Also, that game in Springfield this year isn't going to be a cakewalk, either.

Impressive that Fisher can play one half and win going away. And if I remember everyone said the same thing about replacing the RB when J Myers left...and that worked out just fine for Fisher. I think Ithaca is a great team year in and year out...but last year Fisher was clearly a much better team. I know it kills IC fans to think about it...but it is just true.
Two years ago in Ithaca, IC made big plays down the stretch to win the game...they were behind by between 1 and 2 touchdowns the entire game (and yes james Reile rushed for 63 yards in just over 2 quarters, not a bad half of football). So, yes IC deserved to win the game, and it is hard to win at Ithaca, but lets not act like the last time that Fisher went to IC they were manhandled either. I picked IC to win the league in the E8 next year in football, but I think Fisher can beat them, and that game will decide the E8 championship.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on April 02, 2007, 01:50:42 PM
ok... i need to clarify something... i don't hate ithaca... i lived there when i was born and i enjoy spending time there... beautiful place

those were all just personal attacks on jose queervo...nothing less...nothing more


and i hail from a community college haha and played soccer...never football
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on April 02, 2007, 02:26:09 PM
Quote from: keystonelight on April 02, 2007, 01:50:42 PMthose were all just personal attacks on jose queervo...nothing less...nothing more

Good thing I got my Hater Blockers on:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi58.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg255%2FDGDG_2006%2F66-FRONT-1.gif&hash=89f21a91d08e0e7f14752621aec13918e630341c)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on April 30, 2007, 10:02:51 PM
Can't wait for this board to be active again
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: SBell on May 01, 2007, 04:25:06 PM
Michigan point guard to Rochester ...

http://www.bankhoops.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4133&start=60

Comes from Trevor Huffman's alma mater and a league in Northern Michigan, where by point of comparison three of the other four who joined him on the all-league team will be DI players, and preceding him as the all-league point guard was another DI player.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: keystonelight on May 28, 2007, 08:37:24 PM
i heard this michigan player...who was the leading scorer on his team averaging 16 was going to fisher?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: heatlee on June 03, 2007, 01:37:10 PM
With Stevens coming into the league how is that going to affect the travel, because their nearest opponent is at least four hours away.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on June 03, 2007, 04:52:04 PM
i think it's going to change around the schedule. the conference normally has 'travel partners', for instance, Fisher & Alfred were travel partners, on fri night Fisher would play RIT (naz's partner), while Alfred played Naz, and on the saturday, they would flip flop.

i think this upcoming year there are going to be more weekday games, like tuesday night, fri night games, and only a couple of the fri-sat game pairings.

should get rid of the losses caused by exhaustion on those saturday afternoon games after a long friday night game.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: heatlee on June 03, 2007, 08:21:25 PM
So who is going to get stuck with Stevens as their traveling partner?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 04, 2007, 12:49:16 AM
http://www.utica.edu/ucpioneers/mbasketball/schedule.cfm

Utica's schedule indicates they're just gonna sorta slide Stevens in whenever they can; the Pios will play 'em in Jersey on a Wednesday night in January then a February Saturday afternoon in Utica.  They will be making 3 separate stops in Rochester since the traditional RIT/Naz duo has been split up (but that's specific to Utica, perhaps IC or Hartwick would still play at RIT and Naz on the same weekend and have Stevens split up the Alfred/Fisher trip, for example.)
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: reelentless on June 05, 2007, 02:01:48 PM
Hey Caz, Utica v Stevens on 1-13 and 2-17  '08 are both Sundays.   That's something new - Both 4PM starts.   
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on June 05, 2007, 02:58:53 PM
That has to be an error then.  No way a team is going to play a 4 pm Sunday game with a 6 hour bus ride following.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bballfan44 on June 20, 2007, 05:59:03 PM
Utica is losing alot from last year, they going to be able to still compete at the top level?  I mean i know they have a good coach and they have a few good players returning but do they have any stud freshman coming in, because Ray Bryant is a big lose.......????
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 20, 2007, 07:50:53 PM
A big lose?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: bballfan44 on June 21, 2007, 10:49:03 AM
sorry I ment he is a big loss
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: gobombers15 on July 25, 2007, 01:17:22 PM
I think Utica has a big transferring in from a low-level D1 school. I forgot which school it was, though. My first inkling is to say Prarie View but I could be completely off. I think UCgrad told me about it. If so, he should be added to a fairly solid group of young, inside players. Utica also has Herring come back and the guy should be expected to challenge for E8 POY.

Ithaca has a lot returning, too. It's now or never for Naz and I think they'll be capable, especially with Corey MacAdam prepared to take over the league and Canori having one last chance to get Naz over the hump. Stevens is a great team, as well. Should be a fun year. I look forward to things heating up around here near Thanksgiving.

Hope everyone is having an enjoyable summer.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: lileyes on August 02, 2007, 09:06:34 PM
UC grads Justin Cichon and Ray Bryant just signed with the ABA.  They're both gonna be on the same team, the Corning Bulldogs. 


http://www.abalive.com/news/releases/?newsid=2007072406004

http://www.abalive.com/news/releases/?newsid=2007073006002
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: e8bballfan on September 20, 2007, 09:40:23 AM
I believe that former SU pg Billy Edelin and SU recruit Dayshawn Wright will be playing on Syracuse's ABA team as well...

any word around the e8??

-@IC Brian Joe is gone, for good, or just one semester and transferring back in??

-anyone know anything on Stevens?

-will RIT/Alfred struggle now that big men (Bacon/Stein) are gone? Saw Alfred got a big kid from Rochester suburbs who I had heard is lanky, athletic, needs some work done but has potential, we'll see.

-naz has older mcadams back (did he redshirt??)to team up with little bro...let's see if they can get it together they could be good.

-who will step up at fisher? beigel? smalt? baltz? how many freshmen they bring in(+/- 12??)?

-Jan Cocococo is good, anyone else at hartwick good?

-utica? herring is solid, athletic, pretty sick(despite crapping the bed @e8 final)...supporting cast?

what's the word?!
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: slickyquick on September 20, 2007, 02:45:04 PM
As far as Stevens goes...they should be pretty good. They were in the Sweet 16 last year with a new coach who was in these parts for a couple of years with Hamilton and St. Lawrence. I would assume they brought in some good players considering their location.

They should fight with Ithaca and Fisher for top billing in the league.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: FisherDynasty on October 07, 2007, 12:04:16 AM
Way Early predictions for the E8:

1) Fisher of course all 5 players coming back which started a number of games last year.  Have the 2 best bigs, solid young guard play.  However, although this year i think they even more vulnerable to losing the league than last year as the other teams in the E8 are much better. Look for mark bearden and matt newman to have a huge year for the cardinals.  Also have a really talented athletic freshmen from Rush Henrietta who will bring alot to the team at the guard positions. Will need to have excellent minutes from 6'8 matt haley.

2) Naz - i know giving them this spot is undeserving, however, i really believe this is the year for them to finally come together. Ryan McAdam killed it during empires this summer, him along with canori and younger bro with the 2 4 year starting bigs, should be able to put together a good year.  Talent wise they get the 1 spot.

3) Ithaca - Very young team last year, always play hard, and should be much improved. Bostic should have a huge year along with the pg.  also the young leahy will have a good year. 

4) Utica/RIT/Stevens - tough to say here all will be solid not great.  RIT will be similar to they are every year with or without  bacon they could get the #2 slot as usual.  Same for Utica, they will bring in good transfers, had some solid youngsters last year, and herrig is good, they always play hard.  Stevens very athletic quick guard oriented team.  Will have some big wins, but wont win consistent enough to take the league, however all 3 of these teams have a shot there is a lot of parity in the league this year.  The Gap between Fisher and the rest is very slight, are the favorites due to playing he best defense and play the best team basketball.

7) Hartwick - not bad will be better but not as good as the rest, will pull of some big wins though.

8-9) Alfred/Elmira- just not good teams
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: Cadillac on October 08, 2007, 12:16:47 AM
Fisher -

First the good

The maybe-just-a-little-concerning:

This is all secondhand info, but scrimmages will start soon enough.
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: JQV on October 08, 2007, 04:02:27 PM
Quote from: Cadillac on October 08, 2007, 12:16:47 AM
Fisher -
  • A transfer from Ithaca, a big (Jose-any idea?) is looking good.  That could make it easier on Matt Haley.

no idea. Maybe a JV player?
Title: Re: Empire 8
Post by: superman57 on October 08, 2007, 04:08:46 PM
Quote from: JoseQViper on October 08, 2007, 04:02:27 PM
    Quote from: Cadillac on October 08, 2007, 12:16:47 AM
    Fisher -
    • A transfer from Ithaca, a big (Jose-any idea?) is looking good.  That could make it easier on Matt Haley.

    no idea. Maybe a JV player?

    you didn't here bostic...transfered to fisher last night[/list]
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on October 13, 2007, 04:34:13 PM
    welllll, practices start monday.

    games open up mid-late november for e-8(9) squads..

    11/16 - Alfred vs Oglethorpe
                Stevens Tech vs Skidmore (they play Fisher 12/2, should be a good measuring stick for the                         r            est of the conference to see how good this Stevens team is)
               Utica vs. SUNYIT
               Naz vs. SUNY Oneonta   
               IC vs Potsdam   
              Hartwick vs Lehman
               Elmira vs Ferrum

    11/20 -  Fisher vs Hobart (have an exhibition on 11/3 vs Waterloo)
                 RIT vs York


    Should be an interesting year. I'm looking forward to seeing all the rosters up to see who is still around, who is new, etc...
    Title: Empire 8
    Post by: bball05 on October 16, 2007, 04:32:59 PM
    Utica is gonna suprise everyone ... no1 realizes it
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bballfan44 on October 16, 2007, 05:39:29 PM
    Of course there going to surprise people.  They lost 5 kids from graduation and one of there freshman transfered out.  So there is going to be alot of new faces.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on October 17, 2007, 09:53:30 AM
    Quote from: bball05 on October 16, 2007, 04:32:59 PM
    Utica is gonna suprise everyone ... no1 realizes it

    Hmmmmmm...first post?  This is a player.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on October 17, 2007, 10:38:40 AM
    Utica is going to surprise everyone how? it's not like there predicted to be a bottom feeder.  A surprise would be to win the league which would be a surprise for any team, seeing how no one has one the league besides Fisher in the last 5 years. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on October 17, 2007, 02:52:54 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on October 17, 2007, 10:38:40 AM
    Utica is going to surprise everyone how? it's not like there predicted to be a bottom feeder.  A surprise would be to win the league which would be a surprise for any team, seeing how no one has one the league besides Fisher in the last 5 years. 

    Realization alert:  I have been out of college for 5 years...damn.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on October 18, 2007, 01:14:50 PM
    3 years and change here... seems like a past life.

    Anyway, the IC transfer to Fisher is Brian Kern.  Looks like he was a spot player 2 seasons ago; not on the varsity roster last year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on October 18, 2007, 01:42:02 PM
    Thanks for the info.  Thankfully it's nobody who was actually useful.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on October 19, 2007, 12:19:04 AM
    Did Kern leave any impression at all?

    I don't think anyone on the Fisher squad expected him to do much of anything, but they've been surprised.

    I gathered he's a fringe rotation guy.  8th or 9th man.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on October 19, 2007, 10:34:44 AM
    Quote from: Cadillac on October 19, 2007, 12:19:04 AM
    Did Kern leave any impression at all?

    I don't think anyone on the Fisher squad expected him to do much of anything, but they've been surprised.

    I gathered he's a fringe rotation guy.  8th or 9th man.

    In his only season at IC, 2005-06, he played in 21 of 29 games off the bench averaging 2.6 ppg and 1.0 rpg in about 10 minutes per contest; so yeah, fringe guy at best during the height of our rampantly mediocre years.  I think we're still at that height, actually.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 21, 2007, 02:04:42 PM
    Any word out there about the team that Fisher will put on the floor? Just going from last years team, and only from memory I have a rough idea. Is there any standout Freshman? Or any other surprises out there? McSweeny and Mueller are big losses, however, Fisher usually finds a way to fill in the blanks. I know Smalt and Beigle should keep the bigs competitive, but is there a true big man that will get minutes?

    Any word on Stevens? I really have no idea what to expect. I know they had a great run at the end of last year, but will the E8 teams be more of a challenge.

    Wow, a lot of questions to be answered in the next few weeks. Obviously I would think Fisher is on the inside track to win the league (through no analysis other than they win the league most of the time.)
    Any info, on any team, would be appreciated. Anybody have a rundown of all the teams in the league. Who the key guys are and all that good stuff?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on October 21, 2007, 05:08:29 PM
    Some teams haven't updated rosters yet, when that happens I'll poke around some sites and see what we've got.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: ICbombers06 on October 21, 2007, 07:13:02 PM
    Kern is a really good athlete, but physically wasn't ready for the college level...I think he transferred to Fredonia State after his frosh year and then transferred again to SJF.  Definitely wouldn't expect him to be an impact player right away, but should get minutes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on October 22, 2007, 12:33:36 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 21, 2007, 02:04:42 PM
    Any word out there about the team that Fisher will put on the floor?

    JMO-
    PG-Newman
    SG-Baltz
    SF-Bearden
    PF-Beigel
    C-Smalt

    McKeever, Coyne, Lidell off the bench... with plenty of opportunities for others to step up.

    Quote from: sjfcards on October 21, 2007, 02:04:42 PMIs there any standout Freshman?  Or any other surprises out there?

    Ozell Franklin's going to get some run.  Very athletic, could play 2-4.  Needs to work on court sense and playing within the team.
    Will Cornett will get a look alongside HS teammate Newman.
    Other than that, lots of ?'s.

    Quote from: sjfcards on October 21, 2007, 02:04:42 PMis there a true big man that will get minutes?

    No real surprises here.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on October 22, 2007, 12:35:02 AM
    Quote from: ICbombers06 on October 21, 2007, 07:13:02 PM
    Kern is a really good athlete, but physically wasn't ready for the college level...I think he transferred to Fredonia State after his frosh year and then transferred again to SJF.  Definitely wouldn't expect him to be an impact player right away, but should get minutes.

    I heard he's rusty, but looking good enough to challenge Matt Haley for first big off the bench.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on October 22, 2007, 09:49:02 AM
    After the first few games and the rotation gets situated, i predict it to look like this:

    PG: neuman - 6'2 (25-30 min) - 10 ppg
    SG: Baltz - 6'2 (25-30 min) - 15 ppg
    SF: Bearden - 6'3 (30 min) -  8-12 ppg (x factor)
    PF: Beigal - 6'5 (25-30 min - more if can be kept out of foul trouble) 10-15 ppg
    C: Smaltz - 6'5 (25-30 min) - 10 ppg

    PG: Coyne (5 min)) , Mckeever (5 min) - 5 ppg combined
    SG: Ozell Franklin (10 m) - 4 ppg -  backing up baltz
    SF: Kern (5 min), Ozell (5m) 4 ppg  combined at the 3
    PF/C: Matt Haley - 6'8 (15m) & Mike Wopperer - 6'6 (10 m) 8 ppg combined

    Fisher will be strong overall not great as they don't have much depth especially at the big positions.  Look for Bearden to get high minutes and shifting down to the 4 spot a lot as i feel wopperer and haley wont be fully ready this year.  I can see the line up looking a lot like this for majority of the game after beigal picks up his 3 fould in 10 minutes or isiah getting in one of his slumps. Especially in the E8 where the majority of teams are very small.  or even putting mckeever/coyne at the two and neuman at the one and going with a more experienced guard oriented offense.

    neuman
    baltz
    franklin
    bearden
    beigal/smalt


    As for Kern: hes about 6'4, lengthy but not very strong especially with the ball.  He has very good ball skills, nice jumper and good springs.  Hes a slasher and likes to penetrate.  However, will take a while to get used to the fisher system as he played for ithaca and fredonia in the past.  He has to get better at driving and kicking instead of driving and getting stuck with the ball either turning it over or shooting up a bad shot.  He also needs to work on his 3 pt shot as everyone on fisher's perimeter needs to be able to shoot the ball.  I think he will have a few good games of which he really helps fisher win, but the majority of the time will be a role player giving bearden some rest.  The following year i think he will be good after he gets stronger and a year with the system.  As far as Stevens, im pretty positive hes not at fisher and will be playing for geneseo and likely being a role player there as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 24, 2007, 08:18:45 PM
    Thanks for the info boys...It looks like Fisher will have a lot of work to do with the loss of McSweeny and Mueller. I like Newman and Baltz, and I think Beigle, when he stays out of foul trouble, is a solid player inside as a 4 man. I am not sure about Smalt as the full time big man.

    I would like to think that Fisher is a team that can win 20 games as they have done every year for what seems like forever. I don't know tho. I think they need to have some young guys step up big for them this year. I believe in Kornaker's ability to put a team on the floor, and I hope they will be fine. This is a big time homer talking here tho.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on October 24, 2007, 09:50:34 PM
    The Utica roster is up.  Anybody know anything about the new guys?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on October 27, 2007, 02:35:23 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 24, 2007, 08:18:45 PM
    Thanks for the info boys...It looks like Fisher will have a lot of work to do with the loss of McSweeny and Mueller.

    No more work than replacing O'Brien, McGee, and Bennett, who scored about 85% of the points two years ago.

    Who at this point last year thought Mueller, who averaged 1.9 the year before, would be All-Conference?

    This year we're looking at:

    What's the point?
    It looks like a typical Kornaker team, and I mean that as the highest compliment.  It's a winning formula, and its served Fisher well in the 3 years I've been watching them.  There's another Dan Mueller on the roster somewhere, and there are enough options that one will emerge to go along with the younger talent.

    More after tomorrow's first scrimmage.
    Title: SJF/Houghton scrimmage 10/27/07
    Post by: Cadillac on October 27, 2007, 06:46:44 PM
    Fisher's starters jumped all over Houghton's starters in the first 20 minutes.
    In the second, Houghton's second/third team buried Fisher's third/fourth guys.
    The third game was mostly starters the entire way and was very close with Fisher winning by about 6.

    For Fisher:
    - Baltz is, and should be, offensive option A, B, and C.  He was shooting lights out.
    - McKeever was the first guy off the bench.  Wopperer was #2.  McKeever hit 2 out of 2 threes in about 4 minutes before making way for the younger guys.  In game 3, he ran the point for some time.
    - Ozell Franklin is going to be more impressive than frustrating.  He played great within the offense, and looked good cutting to the basket.  The only negative - he was way off on his outside shooting.
    - JBeigel & Smalt were both very rusty on offense.  JBeigs got his points, but put up a lot of shots.  They looked okay on D.
    -Brandon Beigel is much improved.  He'll still probably only get in during blowouts, but he put in a lot of work, and deserves kudos.
    -Brian Kern is very skinny.
    -Freshman Will Cornett played over Coyne, but that may just be because the scrimmage was at his high school.

    I'd say 150 turned out at Campbell-Savona to watch.  All 5 alums played extensively.  Nice crowd.  Very polite.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 28, 2007, 04:13:34 PM
    I was just looking around the internet and I noticed that Fisher has updated the roster for the basketball team for this season. I noticed that Ozell Franklin is not on the list?
    Any reason why?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on October 29, 2007, 10:38:44 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 28, 2007, 04:13:34 PM
    I was just looking around the internet and I noticed that Fisher has updated the roster for the basketball team for this season. I noticed that Ozell Franklin is not on the list?
    Any reason why?

    Most of the SIDs are still locked in with Football.  Besides, the teams have only been practicing for about a week right.  Actually, I wonder if schools don't hold any roster until the completion of the "tryouts" in the first week of practice when D3 teams go through the motions of appearing to be open to all students.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 30, 2007, 07:47:10 PM
    Good call. The roster has been changed on the Fisher webpage, and it looks like it is finalized from what I can tell. Ozell Franklin has been added to the list along with some other freshman. I still do not know what to make of the team this year, but I am sure Fisher will find a way to be in the hunt.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on October 30, 2007, 08:20:19 PM
    ahh fishers roster updated to 23 players, now that's more like it...i thought fisher's roster looked a little weird with less than 20 players on it.

    Noticed that the Kern kid ppl had been talking about isn't listed. He not on the team or what?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on October 30, 2007, 11:33:44 PM
    haha that was good, ya never know there may be a few others added on to make it 25-26. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: whatman on October 31, 2007, 01:50:57 PM
    B. Kern quit
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on October 31, 2007, 02:54:20 PM
    Quote from: Cadillac on October 27, 2007, 06:46:44 PM

    I'd say 150 turned out at Campbell-Savona to watch.  All 5 alums played extensively.  Nice crowd.  Very polite.

    Was there an admission charge?  If so, I assume this was a fund-raiser for CS basketball?  I know the team was a casualty of the local school budget deficit issues.

    Anyway, nice gesture by Kornaker and whoever the heck the coach for Houghton is.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on October 31, 2007, 04:46:16 PM
    I could see Kern quitting coming.  Typical kid with good skills and very good athleticism yet doesn't have the strength, decision making, or team skills needed to get minutes for Fisher or any good program for that matter.  Theres a reason why he's transfered twice already. On other news, where is everyone else for other schools no fans? no updates for teams? theres only so much to say about fisher before the season starts.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 31, 2007, 09:05:43 PM
    I hear that...where is everyone from Stevens? I would like to get some info on them. How about Utica, or RIT? I would like to know something about these teams.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on October 31, 2007, 09:47:36 PM
    Anybody have anything on other E8 teams scrimmages besides Fisher?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on October 31, 2007, 09:53:47 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on October 31, 2007, 04:46:16 PM
    I could see Kern quitting coming.  Typical kid with good skills and very good athleticism yet doesn't have the strength, decision making, or team skills needed to get minutes for Fisher or any good program for that matter.  Theres a reason why he's transfered twice already. On other news, where is everyone else for other schools no fans? no updates for teams? theres only so much to say about fisher before the season starts.

    College basketball doesn't start until mid-December even if games are played before then.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on October 31, 2007, 10:08:01 PM
    Thats exactly the reason why Fisher has won the E8 the past 5 years
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on October 31, 2007, 10:14:19 PM
    Brian Kern getting playing time at Ithaca his freshman year and then coming to Fisher a few years later and not fitting in is given.  Year in and year out players on opposing teams even starters on those teams would not see the floor if they played for Fisher, so seeing the Kern kid quitting is not surprising at all to me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 01, 2007, 09:12:10 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on October 31, 2007, 10:08:01 PM
    Thats exactly the reason why Fisher has won the E8 the past 5 years

    I think Fisher has won the E8 for the past 5 years because they have had the best players.  I am fairly certain your interest in their scrimmage has had little effect.

    Quote from: triplethreat on October 31, 2007, 10:14:19 PMYear in and year out players on opposing teams even starters on those teams would not see the floor if they played for Fisher, so seeing the Kern kid quitting is not surprising at all to me.

    That is a pretty bold generalization.  There has been some good talent to play in this league.  Are you certain you don't want to amend that statement before I respond?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 01, 2007, 11:03:17 AM
    Quote from: triplethreat on October 31, 2007, 10:14:19 PM
    Brian Kern getting playing time at Ithaca his freshman year and then coming to Fisher a few years later and not fitting in is given.  Year in and year out players on opposing teams even starters on those teams would not see the floor if they played for Fisher, so seeing the Kern kid quitting is not surprising at all to me.

    Yeah, I'm sure your invincible warrior-kings would have no use at all for Bryant, Herring, Cichon, McAdam, Burton, Bostic, Schulz, Cocoapuffs, Stein, any of RIT's 50 guys named Fran, etc.

    Hopefully the veteran Fisher fans here will take ol' 2-posts here under their wing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on November 01, 2007, 12:41:59 PM
    Quote from: bamm on October 31, 2007, 02:54:20 PM
    Quote from: Cadillac on October 27, 2007, 06:46:44 PM

    I'd say 150 turned out at Campbell-Savona to watch.  All 5 alums played extensively.  Nice crowd.  Very polite.

    Was there an admission charge?  If so, I assume this was a fund-raiser for CS basketball?  I know the team was a casualty of the local school budget deficit issues.

    Anyway, nice gesture by Kornaker and whoever the heck the coach for Houghton is.

    No charge, but they were taking donations for the athletic club, and filled the jar quite rightly.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on November 01, 2007, 12:54:08 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 01, 2007, 11:03:17 AM
    Yeah, I'm sure your invincible warrior-kings would have no use at all for Bryant, Herring, Cichon, McAdam, Burton, Bostic, Schulz, Cocoapuffs, Stein, any of RIT's 50 guys named Fran, etc.

    LOL.

    I'll add Canori, Bacon, Lighthall (he of the most automatic baseline jumper I've ever seen in person).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 01, 2007, 06:16:28 PM
    Yes, my previous statement was a bit bold, but players on other E8 teams would struggle to get time on Fisher's teams in the past.  The players that were named would without a doubt see minutes for Fisher.  My point was that Kern saw minutes for Ithaca but obviously quit this years Fisher squad because he knew that he wouldn't see the court much.  All in all lets face it in the previous five seasons the players mentioned were not as good as Fishers players hence the reason why they havent won the E8 since 2002.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 01, 2007, 06:47:26 PM
    finally some other posters.

    Lets not get into prior arguements of comparing starting line-ups to Fisher teams in the past.  Of the Fisher 28-0 and the year after we already mentioned, the only player on any other team that would squeeze into the line-up would be at the 5 spot on teh 28-0 team and 4 spot for the following year in for beigal.  That would be Ray Bryant and the 4 and tim bacon for mcsweeny, possibly not even sure, charlie zahn is better then bacon and he came in for mcsweeney.  lets review the list of players mentioned:

    Fran snyder would not have seen a starting position.
    Mcadam like his game, maybe over mcghee a year or two
    canori - No
    Cichon like his game too, over mcghee maybe
    Bostic -  Not in the golden years was barely getting pt for ithaca
    Schultz was earlier as well. but yess if u want to include the year ripple was the 5 man when fisher overachieved then yes.
    coco puffs - No not when he was a rook
    Stein - Possibly over mcsweeny
    Murphy - not mentioned but yes would have taken him over mcghee
    Lighthall - no way didnt get the jumper until last year.


    Lets make this even more interesting lets put them on the team heres the rotation:

    Obrien PG
    Murphy SG bigger does a lot more then cichon
    Bennett SF
    Sidney PF - much better then bryant
    McSweeney C - close different player then bacon and zahn however zahn kills bacon and mcsweeney starts over

    Bryant PF
    Bacon, Stein, Zahn C
    Cichon SG
    Mcghee SG


    Bostic was a frosh not there yet
    Canori - not as good as cichon
    Mcadam - too young
    lighthall - not in question
    Shultz too old
    Coco - fresh not there yet


    If i had to change it i would go with, but not as big or good defensively and maybe too many scoring options.

    Obrien
    Cichon
    Murphy
    Sidney
    McSweeny


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 01, 2007, 06:53:59 PM
    Lets not talk about that tho and take away from the current players this season, any predictions on league rankings Naz received more votes then Fisher on the top 25 not that those rankings are 100% accurate. However im surprised they looked into them as they definatly have the talent to be a top 25 team.  Also will be coming out with a 1st and 2nd preseason team shortly.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 01, 2007, 07:06:29 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 01, 2007, 06:53:59 PM
    Lets not talk about that tho and take away from the current players this season, any predictions on league rankings Naz received more votes then Fisher on the top 25 not that those rankings are 100% accurate. However im surprised they looked into them as they definatly have the talent to be a top 25 team.  Also will be coming out with a 1st and 2nd preseason team shortly.

    Interesting thing I learned the other night....Corey McAdam led all freshmen in the nation in assists last season; all 3 NCAA divisions, plus the NAIA.

    The E8 All-Stars According to the Fisher Super Fans:
    1st Team - Fisher's Starters
    2nd Team - Fisher's Bench
    3rd Team - Fisher's Coaches
    4th Team - Fisher's Parents
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 01, 2007, 07:21:47 PM
    Very interesting to me FisherDynasty that Naz got more votes for the top 25 than Fisher did.  Naz has had the players in the previous seasons but just cant put a winning season together.  This year could be the year that they get Fisher.  The two games (possibly more with Chase) should be very interesting.  Any early predictions on the two conference games?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 01, 2007, 07:34:02 PM
    Yeah i know the blunt claims especially form a fan of the team come off as that Caz, however most of my generalizations are true and not far fetched, I feel like i give props when deserved. I dont have much respect for many of the players and teams of the E8 because they arent deserving. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 01, 2007, 07:39:51 PM
    Here it goes preseason 1st and 2nd teams:

    First team:

    Doug Herrig PG   Utica
    Coco Crisp  SG     Hartwick
    Ryan Mcadam SF   Naz
    Justin Beigal PG   Fisher
    Chris Bostic   C    Ithaca

    2nd Team:

    Sean Burton  PG   Ithaca
    Joe Canori  SG     Naz
    Chris Baltz           Fisher
    Kenny Gethers SF   RIT
    Isiah Smalt C       Fisher

    Stevens: both will get in the mix for 1 & 2.  very good guards but left out
    Virgil grey 
    Waleed Fadrid

    Honorable Mention:
    Adam McAdam PG could be 1 or 2 teamer
    Tyler Smith       could be 2nd teamer
    Mark Bearden  could be 2nd teamer
    Matt Neuman   could be 1 or 2 teamer
    Leahy              could be 2nd teamer
    Dehimer          could be 2nd teamer

    Also not considering unknown transfers or Frosh.  Bad year for Bigs in the E8, however, best PG play in the past 5-10 years with Burton, Herrig, Newman, and McAdam, along with the Stevens guards and Coco




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 01, 2007, 07:44:29 PM
    Thats is a very interesting statemet, but true.  Until you beat the team who has won the conference 5 straight times you are not going to get the respect that they get.  But, with that being said this could very well be the year that there is a new champion.  Naz is going to be tough, Utica shoud be solid, a sweet 16 Stevens team entered the league, and you cant forget about the RITs and Ithacas.  Should be a great season in the E9!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 01, 2007, 07:52:15 PM
    Oh believe me, I fully acknowledge SJF is the champ until proven otherwise...but I have to poke a little fun at you guys for coming off like Todd Swerski and the Bears Superfans from SNL.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 01, 2007, 07:55:09 PM
    1st team

    Cory McAdam
    Doug Herring
    Jeff Bostic
    Justin Beigal
    Joe Canori

    2nd team

    Coco
    Sean Burton
    Kenny Gethers
    Chris Baltz
    Virgil Gray


    Honorable Mention

    Waleed Farid
    Isiaih Smalt
    Sean Leahy
    Ryan McAdam
    Tyler Smith




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 01, 2007, 08:01:50 PM
    hahaha understandable id do the same thing
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 01, 2007, 08:41:09 PM
    These two kids from Stevens are very good and could give all the teams in the conference some serious problems.  They could very easily both be first or second teamers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 01, 2007, 11:12:38 PM
    To be totally honest, it is assanine debate like this that makes the basketball board so much less interesting than the football board.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 02, 2007, 10:16:48 AM
    why dont you stay on the football board then.  Everytime i take a look on that board theres off topic conversation about some mumbo jumbo.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 02, 2007, 10:38:48 AM
    What topic is it that you would like to discuss?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 02, 2007, 11:11:11 AM
    My point is that you Fisher guys get so caught up in yourselves sometimes that you end making, and attempting to defend, ridiculous arguments.

    1) Stop taking yourself so seriously. 

    2) Stop acting as though one of these schools is going to hire a hoop coach off these boards.  It's ok to just understand the game as a fan.

    3) The Empire 8 existed before the last 5 seasons, though not that long before the last 5 seasons.  It isn't too hard to brush up on such recent history.

    That said, I generally enjoy your posts when you don't get caught up in each other.  Your passion for Fisher hoops is a good thing for the league and can make this board very fun.  Just relax.

    Here is a thought to consider.  Neither of the two most talented players every to play in the Empire 8 played at Fisher.  In my opinion, there has not been a player that could hold a candle to either Devon Downing or Pat Britton.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 02, 2007, 11:18:28 AM
    First of all who said that I was a fan of Fisher? Also, if you saw in my previous posts I gave props to other players and said that this year there are a few teams that have a great shot at winning the conference.  Stevens is a very good team and utica and naz should contend as well.  With that being said there is a lot of parity in this conference every year and the statement that I made was Fisher has just dominated in the past. Thats all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 02, 2007, 11:40:40 AM
    Sorry if this statement made me assume you were a Fisher fan.

    Quote from: triplethreat on October 31, 2007, 10:14:19 PMYear in and year out players on opposing teams even starters on those teams would not see the floor if they played for Fisher, so seeing the Kern kid quitting is not surprising at all to me.

    I don't think, however, that was an unreasonable assumption.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 02, 2007, 01:54:03 PM
    What I said came from Fisher just being that much better than everyone else in the past, I think you and everyone else would agree with me there.  I am just stating the facts thats all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 02, 2007, 02:45:17 PM
    Quote from: triplethreat on November 02, 2007, 01:54:03 PM
    What I said came from Fisher just being that much better than everyone else in the past, I think you and everyone else would agree with me there.  I am just stating the facts thats all.

    Fisher has won the league the last five years by having a group of players that were collectively better than the group of players on other teams.  That is a fact.  Your opinion that no team in the E8 has had a player that could get minutes at Fisher is not a fact.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 02, 2007, 03:05:25 PM
    I didnt say all players and if thats how you took it that is not what I meant.  But on to the next topic....Some exhibition games coming up as early as this weekend.  Fisher has a University of Waterloo team coming in who I have heard is pretty good.  I hear that they play against some D1 teams, this should be a good way to find out what Fishers team this season is all about.  Anybody have any predictions?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 02, 2007, 04:19:20 PM
    Yeah but Canadian basketball is very bad.  The past 4-5 seasons ive seen Fisher win by about 60 in their exhibition team.  The canadian teams look very impressive phycially and athletically but just dont play right.  We'll see though, maybe this team will be different.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 02, 2007, 04:23:51 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 02, 2007, 04:19:20 PM
    who the hell is the university of waterloo? waterloo as in waterloo NY? im confused.

    Without looking I am all but certain it is a Canadian team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 02, 2007, 04:25:32 PM
    yeah looked it up, Triplethreat ill go with fisher by 10-15, waterloo is 2-7 on the year, givin there game experience over Fisher it could be closer.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on November 02, 2007, 04:33:54 PM
    Waterloo is a D-I Canadian University located 90 miles west of Toronto.  They are considered one of the top math/computer science schools in the world.  Waterloo faculty/grads invented the blackberry.  The school has about 22,000 undergraduates, and 2,500 grad students, so it is 10 times the size of Fisher.

    They play in the top Ontario University league which has teams that are competitive with mid-majors.  Carleton, who is in their league just played Louisville in Freedom Hall.

    They lost to Duquesne in their season opener by 27.  They have good size, including a 6-9 and a 6-7

    Their players are all canadian, and they play international (Olympic) rules normally.  They will be good three point shooters, and used to physical play in the post.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 02, 2007, 04:55:00 PM
    This game should be a good one to see where Fishers bigs (Beigal, Smalt) are.  I have heard that both of them didnt play all that great in the scrimmage.  But going against 6'7 and 6'9 i they are somewhat decent they should give Fishers bigs some trouble being that their 6'5 and 6'6, but we will see.  Should be nice to see what Kornaker has done on the offensive end with the couple of guys he lost last year and who will fill their shoes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 02, 2007, 06:02:42 PM
    Good info Bear,  From reading that id have to take them as the favorite specially since they have 9 games against quality opponents.  Fisher is going to have alot of problems this year with good big players.  Smalt is not a good defender or strong enough to handle a true center. Beigal fouls every 5 minutes so will be in foul trouble if forced to cover a good big man with moves.  Fisher has no real depth at the big spots, the younger bigs are not ready to compete at a high enough level yet.  A lot of the games fisher loses will be games where they just dont have the depth they've had in previous years . 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on November 02, 2007, 07:59:38 PM
    My guess is that conditioning will play a factor.  If Fisher is in shape, they may be able to out quick the Canadians and minimize the size advantage.  Potsdam plays a Canadian exhibition every year, and generally wins.  The Canadian teams have some great athletes, but often aren't as well conditioned.

    One last thing.  Sometimes the Canadian teams have players that can't get across the border.  Many students from the former British colonies in the Caribbean (Jamaica, Bahamas, etc.) have relatively easy access to Canada because of shared membership in the British Commonwealth, but don't have the documents in this day & age to cross into the USA.  Sometimes these Canadian teams will show up with a third of their roster missing including most of their best athletes.

    The game that will be telling IMHO will be against Geneseo, which has a strong core returning including good bigs, and Scott Morton, who can play with anyone.  The game's at Geneseo and will be a rare early season test for the Cards to see how they stack up.  Geneseo is a consensus #3 - #5 in a loaded SUNYAC this year.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 02, 2007, 08:08:37 PM
    Seeing that there are a couple of Ithaca posters following this board, i am curious to find out what the expectations are this year for the bombers? Also it just seems that D-3 basketball in the state of New York is going to be outstanding this season. So much talent spread to so many teams.

    Anyways, the only player lost from the end of the year roster was Stahn who was a 15 mpg player. In addition, they are the only team return two first team all-conference players from a year ago (Burton and Bostic), and have a solid nucleus of players with expirence to surround those two, lead by Leahy and Brown. Also to follow up on the discussion on the SJFC big men, in my opinion Ithaca has the bigs (Bostic, Brown, Kail and Leahy) to give trouble to any team in the Empire 8 this year.

    I am wondering what the other posters think about this and the team this year?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 02, 2007, 08:31:33 PM
    Ithaca does have a solid returning group coming back, but I am not sure if their bigs are that great.  Besides Bostic thier other bigs have not really proven themselves.  Leahy is more of a 2 or 3.  But Brown and Kail havent proven themselves.  Yes they do have two returning 1st teamers back but with that being said they still would be my pick to finish fourth or fifth in the conference behind Fisher, Stevens, Naz, and Utica, possibly RIT.  This is just my opinion anything can happen this year, so you never know.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 02, 2007, 09:56:26 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on November 02, 2007, 08:08:37 PM
    Seeing that there are a couple of Ithaca posters following this board, i am curious to find out what the expectations are this year for the bombers? Also it just seems that D-3 basketball in the state of New York is going to be outstanding this season. So much talent spread to so many teams.

    Anyways, the only player lost from the end of the year roster was Stahn who was a 15 mpg player. In addition, they are the only team return two first team all-conference players from a year ago (Burton and Bostic), and have a solid nucleus of players with expirence to surround those two, lead by Leahy and Brown. Also to follow up on the discussion on the SJFC big men, in my opinion Ithaca has the bigs (Bostic, Brown, Kail and Leahy) to give trouble to any team in the Empire 8 this year.

    I am wondering what the other posters think about this and the team this year?

    As Dennis Green would say, Ithaca is who we thought they were...regardless of personnel they're the same team every year.  Never too good and never very bad, just Mullinocrity at its finest.  If there is any year when they can make it a cut above that, then it's this season with Bryant gone at Utica, Fisher having to re-load on the fly and nobody knowing what the heck to make of Stevens yet and the Bombers having all those starters back.

    I'm hoping for the best out of IC but the track record says in the vicinity of .500 just like always.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 02, 2007, 10:05:16 PM
    Everyone is saying the same thing about Stevens, but they return two players who averaged more than 15 a game and should be really good.  We will see once we hit the start of conference play.  Lets not forget they went to the Sweet 16 last year just as Fisher did.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 03, 2007, 02:01:40 PM
    I think Ithaca will have a good year.  Bostic, Leahy, and burton are all good players.  I think they will get a win vs everyteam in the E8 this year, however, not sure if they will have enough to win the league.  As far as bigs go, I think Bostic is the best, however the combination of Smalt and beigal to be better then bostic and brown.  Also dont forget Dehimer and Smith at Naz they should have a good year as well. 

    Onto the Stevens issue, if you havnt notice they are the only team in the E8 ranked in the top 25 (at #24).  On paper they should be preseason #1 to win the league, however, i dont think it will pan out like that.  Should be a very interesting yeah.  I think Fisher, Stevens, Naz, Utica, and Ithaca all have a legitimit shot at winning the league this year.  I for the first time in a while  Fisher will not win the league.  I think they will have the best record going into the E8 tourny, but will get beat due to inconsistenty on the offensive end.  I think they will struggle at times finding a go to guy on the offensive end.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on November 03, 2007, 10:51:08 PM
    Fisher exhibition notes:

    - McKeever was the key in the second half.  Nice passes and timely buckets.  He played the final 18 minutes in the second half while all the other guards subbed in.  He needs starter minutes.

    - Baltz was off - way off - and when he's off, Fisher's going to struggle offensively.

    - Ozell Franklin was in a shirt and tie.  He'll need to get to class if he ever wants to wear a uniform again.

    - Isaiah handles tall guys better than the wide loads... he just needs to FINISH.

    - Waterloo didn't have much.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 04, 2007, 10:58:06 AM
    Had to catch up on a lot. A few quick-hits:

    1) FisherDynasty, Jeff Sidney is not, nor was he ever, better than Ray Bryant. Far be it for me to be defending anything Utica, but I can't believe you could even make such a statement with a straight face. Sidney had a very good freshman year and a fantastic senior year, but let's not forget about the sophomore and junior years. The guy lost his starting job and his confidence. If you can't be one of the five best players on your own team for two years, you're not better than one of the best players the E8 has seen over its existence. Sorry.

    2) Why all the venom towards Tom Brown? The guy averaged 7ppg and 5rpg as a freshman and those numbers were even better during the conference season. I've seen much worse from freshman in this league. He played 22 mins/game last year and I think that's going to jump to about 30 mins/game with the departure of Stahn. I think the extra year of experience and the additional playing time should put him around 10 pts/game and 7 rebs/game. That's pretty good for a big in this league, not to mention Ithaca's FOURTH offensive option (at best).

    Almost across-the-board, Tom Brown had better numbers than Isaiah Smalt. Look it up if you want. Then again, FisherDynasty, you are the guy who refused to admit Bostic was a decent player until about two weeks before the all-conference selections came out.

    3) The predicted first, second, third teams are absurd. I don't think I've seen one person pick Sean Burton on a pre-season first team yet. Guys, he earned 1st team as a sophomore and you think the coaches are going to knock him down a peg before he even plays his next game. Please. Ithaca is going to have two guys on the first team (Burton, Bostic).

    Not sure what the pre-season teams are, but here's my prediction for how it will inevitably shake out (subject to change shortly before the conference season begins):

    POY: Corey McAdam (in a boat race--guy could average 17, 7, 7)

    FIRST TEAM
    Sean Burton (IC)
    Doug Herring (UC)
    Corey McAdam (Naz)
    Waleed Farid (Stev)
    Jeff Bostic (IC)

    SECOND TEAM
    Anthony Passalacqua (Stev)
    Joe Canori (Naz)
    Jan Cocozziello (Wick)
    Kenny Gethers (RIT)
    Justin Beigel (SJF)
    Tyler Smith (Naz)

    IN THE RUNNING
    Zeinfeld (RIT)
    Leahy (IC)
    Baltz (SJF)
    Newman (SJF)
    Ryan McAdam (Naz)
    Munch (UC)


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 04, 2007, 11:29:40 AM
    Im entitled to my opinion. Jeff lost his starting spot because Fisher actually has really good players on the bench that would be stars on other teams.  Sorry that ray bryant never impressed me.  He was just a mismatch for most teams other then fisher in the E8 so did very well.  He never did anything against Fisher so i only judge from what i see.  I also watched him in a few other games and yes he did get a lot of grind plays but game was not smooth at all.  anyways.

    I never said bostic wasnt a good player just not as good as mcsweeny.  I think i gave Ithaca players there dues and burton saying he could make the 1st team again.  Just think Herrig will have a better year this year as he will have to do much more for utica to win.  Your first team has 4 pg's? what the hell kind of team is that, that will NEVER happen. I think any of them have a shot at making it just isnt realistic. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on November 04, 2007, 06:44:10 PM
    UC had a scrimmage today. In a 60 minute game, UC outscored RPI 142-90.

    Many good transfers and freshmen. Last years returners worked very hard in the offseason and look like different players physically. Deep at every position.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 04, 2007, 07:07:03 PM
    Whats your  outlook on Utica this year as far as the E8 league play after seeing Utica's scrimmage? any other any other candidates for 1st 2nd team besides herrig?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on November 04, 2007, 07:31:02 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 04, 2007, 07:07:03 PM
    Whats your  outlook on Utica this year as far as the E8 league play after seeing Utica's scrimmage? any other any other candidates for 1st 2nd team besides herrig?


    Tough to say after just one outing.

    Physically I have never seen a Utica team look so fast and strong so early in a season. Deep as well. However they are a young team. The talent is definately there.

    Doug dropped 27 in limited time. The backup pg dropped 20. Maxwell, a transfer from Sienna is nasty and may be considered. Another transfer, Justin Smith reminds me of Willie Lucas with a better handle and more speed. I think Munch was perfect from the field, including behind the arc, and from the charity stripe.

    The returners from last years team look to be VERY much improved. The team should be solid at all positions. Transition, scoring, rebounding, and D will all be strengths IMO.

    Should be an interesting season. The team looks good and should get better with experience.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 05, 2007, 11:06:14 AM
    Predicted pre-season order of finish when it comes out in the coming days/weeks, as well as the records I'm predicting for each team in the conference:

    1) Stevens (15-3)
    2) Fisher (14-4)
    3) Ithaca (12-6)
    4) Utica (11-7)
    T-5) Nazareth (9-9)
    T-5) RIT (9-9)
    7) Hartwick (6-12)
    8 ) Alfred (4-14)
    9) Elmira (1-17)

    I think Utica is the real wild-card in those standings. I could see them finishing anywhere from 3rd-6th (I don't see them topping Fisher or Stevens). It really depends on how much the young bigs have developed from last year, if Herring can be the player he was in the first half of the conference season rather than the second half, and how good the transfers are. With all due respect to UCgrad and the Fisher prognosticators, right now we're hearing an over-hyped version of both squads.

    I really think that much like the SEC, but on a far smaller scale, the top of the league is really going to cannabalize itself this year. There are a lot of even teams this season and a lot of tough gyms to play in. I really don't foresee the regular season champ losing less than 3 or 4 games in conference.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 05, 2007, 03:23:36 PM
    Alright, I was checking the boards seeing if anyone had put up the Stevens projections but I guess not.  I've caught a few games over the past 2 years so hopefully I can give some insight to them since I know many of you haven't seen them.  To be honest last year I only saw their game against Tufts and then the three NCAA tournament games, and the year before I saw NYU, someone in conference, and one out of conference.

    Overview:
    This team snuck up on a lot of people last year with a new coach.  They remind me a lot of the Villanova team from a few years ago that started 4 guards and a mobile 5 man.  A lot of drive and kick stuff.  Kind of ignored the post last year, though I expect that to change.  At the Tufts game the four guards (Morris, Passalacqua, Gray, Farid) combined for 84 points alone.  The rest of the team...8.  I would think that, despite the new conference, they should be able to maintain this success

    Key Losses:
    Michael Collins
    Floyd Morris

    Both were senior starters.  Neither one was much of an offensive threat, though I saw games from both that showed they could be dangerous on certain nights.  Example, Morris gave Andrew Olson from Amherst fits offensively in that NCAA Tournament game.  Collins was one of the premier shot blockers in all of division 3, finished top 30 in block shots every year he played.  He made up for a lot of mistakes.  As for Morris, from what I've seen on their site, this is the first time since 2003 that someone will be starting at the point guard position other than him.  4 year starter, handled the ball a good 70% of the game and was the only person who touched it when teams went to full court press.  Again, limited offensively.  Pretty smart player, rarely turned the ball over.  Collins and Morris graduated as the all time school leaders in block shots and assists respectively.

    Key Returnees (projected starters):
    Waleed Farid - PF
    Virgil Gray - SF
    George Greco - PG
    Anthony Passalacqua - SG
    Tim Williams - C

    Most people don't realize that Stevens best player didn't play last season.  Tim Williams (6'7", 245) led the team in virtually all stats 2 years ago, but didn't play last season (couldn't get an explanation on why).  He averaged 14 and 7 that season, and was 8th in the nation in field goal percentage (65.1%)  He will be one of the best, if not the best, big in the Empire 8 this year, and I think the offense may change now that they have a legit scoring threat down low.  Farid, Gray, and Passalacqua were all double digit scorers a season ago.  Farid is a strong player that does a lot of things very well.  Because of their style, he's usually guarded by a slow 4 or undersized 3 which created problems for most teams last year.  Gray just gets to the basket.  Very explosive.  Passalcqua is a dead eye shooter who will make just about any wide open three.  Greco should take over for Morris, as he was the backup last year.  Pesky defender and a better offensive threat.  All five starters will average double digit points for them this year.

    Bench contributers:
    Matt Higgins
    Joseph Ayodele
    Nate Williams
    Damien Palantino

    Higgins is like a 3 or 4.  Really tough kid.  Only 6'4" but grabbed a ton of rebounds in their tournament run.  Ayodele and Williams off the bench will provide size (both 6'6").  Palintino was injured last year, not sure if he played or not.  Very good shooter and shoots it from deep.  Don't know much about their freshman.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 05, 2007, 03:36:21 PM
    Thanks for the info Cyclone, that was my one concern/doubt with stevens was the post.  Not that they couldnt get by E8 who is small all around without a true big man but will definatly help having their big back.  Go bombers def agree that the teams on the top of the conference will beat each other up much more then previous years.  Much more parity than in previous years and I dont think the best team is as good as previous years, but the conference is much much better as a whole.  With the addition of Stevens the E8 has a chance i believe to get 3 teams in the NCAA (Stevens, Fisher, and a winner of the Tourny) although very slight seeing as the region overall is better.  heres my predictions for the season. I am pretty much in agreement with gobombers except going to squeeze Naz in there in place of Utica, and actually have them come out of the E8 tourny.  Being a fisher fan its hard to say, however, I believe this is the year Naz will finally pull it together, but will still have there few horrible losses that cannot be explained by any means so wont win the reg. season.  Its hard not to think Fisher will get the 1 spot, I think Stevens will struggle more than expected as the conference is going to be very new to them. Its going to be a very different year in the E8. Time will tell.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 05, 2007, 03:54:23 PM
    Could be tough to get three, especially if Stevens regional affiliation switches from Atlantic to East, seeing as how almost all of their games are now East region games and thus without the switch their in-region atlantic schedule would be a little small.

    I think that the switch will probably affect the early part of the season for them, because I know the conference they played in had 2 of the worst teams in division 3.  However, it also had another NCAA tourney team and they played a pretty good out of conference with NYU, Tufts, and some others.

    I still think it will come down to Fisher/Stevens for the regular season crown, because those seem like the teams with the least amount of questions at the moment.  Utica and Naz both should be dangerous come tournament time, and I wouldn't be surprised to have a different regular season and conference tourney winner.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 05, 2007, 08:29:58 PM
    Is the travel going to affect Stevens the first year?  Other than sitting in metro NYC traffic, Skyline road trips probably weren't that grueling....they've got long-a$$ bus rides for every game.  Have their players ever even heard of Elmira, Utica, Ithaca, Oneonta, etc.?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 05, 2007, 08:34:02 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 05, 2007, 03:36:21 PM
    Thanks for the info Cyclone, that was my one concern/doubt with stevens was the post.  Not that they couldnt get by E8 who is small all around without a true big man but will definatly help having their big back.  Go bombers def agree that the teams on the top of the conference will beat each other up much more then previous years.  Much more parity than in previous years and I dont think the best team is as good as previous years, but the conference is much much better as a whole.  With the addition of Stevens the E8 has a chance i believe to get 3 teams in the NCAA (Stevens, Fisher, and a winner of the Tourny) although very slight seeing as the region overall is better.  heres my predictions for the season. I am pretty much in agreement with gobombers except going to squeeze Naz in there in place of Utica, and actually have them come out of the E8 tourny.  Being a fisher fan its hard to say, however, I believe this is the year Naz will finally pull it together, but will still have there few horrible losses that cannot be explained by any means so wont win the reg. season.  Its hard not to think Fisher will get the 1 spot, I think Stevens will struggle more than expected as the conference is going to be very new to them. Its going to be a very different year in the E8. Time will tell.


    I'm taking a wait-and-see approach with Naz. As I mentioned, I do think that they will have the best player in the conference in Corey McAdam. They also have a consistent scorer in Canori and will be picking up a solid starter in Ryan McAdam, who missed all last season with an injury. Tyler Smith is a quality pivot, as well. The big thing with them, as always, will be whether they can bring the effort on the defensive end each game. Over the last three seasons, I don't think they've come close to doing that. Secondly, I think they have to find a way to win away from home. They've been a poor road team, lately. I really can't remember the last time they've won at Ithaca, RIT, Utica, etc. Those are the teams they need to beat to make the E8 Tourney, but they're not even getting splits against those schools; that's killer. Keep in mind, too, that RIT pretty much owns Naz and that's one of the teams that Naz will be competing with to get a tourney berth.

    Unquestionably, the talent exists at Naz. It's just a matter of effort (defense) and poise (winning on the road). If they have one or both, they should be a contender capable of beating any team on a given night; if not, they can get beat by almost any team on a given night. Simple as that.

    Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 05, 2007, 08:29:58 PM
    Is the travel going to affect Stevens the first year?  Other than sitting in metro NYC traffic, Skyline road trips probably weren't that grueling....they've got long-a$$ bus rides for every game.  Have their players ever even heard of Elmira, Utica, Ithaca, Oneonta, etc.?

    I was wondering the same thing. I'm sure that they'll have to leave VERY early on Friday morning for the two trips to the Rochester-area (Naz/RIT and Fisher/Alfred). That's going to be at least a 6-hour bus ride, and probably closer to 7 hours. May not be fun getting off a bus at 3pm and playing a game at 8pm.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 05, 2007, 09:50:34 PM
    GB15, I gotta believe Stevens will overnight everywhere beyond Hartwick (and maybe there too).  When I look at their website and their facilities I see a school with the cash to spring for some hotel rooms.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 05, 2007, 09:51:22 PM
    It seems like every year we talk about Naz, and is this the year that they pull it all together. I agree that they have much better talent than where they have finished the last few years. But, I think between coaching and the players on the team they are just a 3rd or 4th place team.

    I agree that it will be Fisher and Stevens for the for the regular season title. I think they will battle for the top spot all season, and that the rest of the teams (Elmira and Hartwick excluded) in the league will be pretty even for the remaining two spots in the conference tourny.

    I think Naz will get in to the tourny, but I think Ithaca, Utica, RIT, and even Alfred will have something to say about them getting in.

    I know I am a Fisher fan, but there is not much reason to think they will not be a step above the other teams in the conference again this year. I agree with Gobombers that the league will be more competitive at the top this year, but I think that Fisher will find a way to win the regular season title.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 05, 2007, 11:10:59 PM
    I agree Gobombers and sjfcards.  We're going to have to see, Coach Daley is not a good coach and Naz does play no D.  I just think Ryan McAdam is very underrated and is going to be the X factor.  He is the best 3 man in the league and is going to have a big year.  I also dont believe Corey is the best, Idk he did have amazing stats but when he played Fisher, Newman got the best of him both times so wasnt as impressive to me. However, thats just two games and he did put up some crazy stats. 

    Sjfc, I think alfred is out of the mix this year not having stein hurts, Hartwick would get the nodge over them, they brought in a few other descent freshmen with size along with some returning talent.  They should be able to get a few more good wins this year. 


    Agree with the sjfc & stevens prediction.  However, sad as it is, next year is going to be a rough one for Fisher  they will have trouble making the ncaa tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 06, 2007, 08:00:25 AM
    Does Naz have any posters?  Looks like we currently have several representatives from Fisher and IC.  One from UC and Stevens and at least one from RIT.  Is that right?  If the league is as competitive as you all predict it will be, this could be a fun year. 

    I am going to see IC in person for the first time in about 5 years when they come down to Orlando.  Caz, you in?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 06, 2007, 10:37:59 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on November 06, 2007, 08:00:25 AM
    Does Naz have any posters?  Looks like we currently have several representatives from Fisher and IC.  One from UC and Stevens and at least one from RIT.  Is that right?  If the league is as competitive as you all predict it will be, this could be a fun year. 

    I am going to see IC in person for the first time in about 5 years when they come down to Orlando.  Caz, you in?

    I think I can swing that, yeah.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on November 06, 2007, 10:51:06 AM
    RIT Update --

    The big concern heading into the season for RIT is the center position.  There wasn't a clear successor to Bacon that could come anywhere close to his production.  Per tradition, Coach McVean has a really tall freshman  -- in this case 6'11", 200 pounds.  As I recall, the last I checked, I was 5'11" and 190 -- so I have my doubts he'll be starting right away, unless he started the Andy Reid diet the second he stepped on campus.

    Zeinfeld should continue to be his usual self, filling the role Sean Murphy left to shoot the ball from anywhere at anytime, without any guilt (I have no problem with it in either case, for the record).

    Gethers should be good for double-digits every game to help Zeinfeld with scoring.  I anticipate Colin Roy running the show again this season, we'll have to see if he'll contribute a little more on the offensive end with the loss of Bacon's production.  He has always been an excellent defender.  I've heard a freshman guard is excellent, and could spell Roy adequately, but obviously I have no visual evidence of that yet. 

    Rick Whitwood will have to continue to develop as a scoring option.  I think he averaged over 10 a game in conference play last season. 

    Beyond that, your guess is as good as mine.  I think Zeinfeld will have to be a lot more consistent with his shooting this season if this team is to make the E8 tourney.  They certainly will not be in the basement, but a challenge for the league title is probably out of the question.  I hope I'm wrong.
     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 06, 2007, 12:15:33 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on November 06, 2007, 08:00:25 AM
    Does Naz have any posters?  Looks like we currently have several representatives from Fisher and IC.  One from UC and Stevens and at least one from RIT.  Is that right?  If the league is as competitive as you all predict it will be, this could be a fun year. 

    I am going to see IC in person for the first time in about 5 years when they come down to Orlando.  Caz, you in?

    I don't think Naz has any current posters. I remember Ryan Shipley (former Naz center) posted on the board just hours after the bench-clearing brawl against Fisher. Also, I think there was a guy named E8bballfan (or something to that effect) that was very pro-Naz. I think he left the board or has just been very quiet the last few seasons.

    Frankly, I do hope our favorite Hartwick fan comes back. As annoying as he may be, he's constant entertainment. My favorite is when he tells us that we should take advantage of having the privilege to see the Hartwick Hawks when they come to our town. You can't make that stuff up.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 06, 2007, 01:29:22 PM
    Quote from: bamm on November 06, 2007, 10:51:06 AMCoach McVean has a really tall freshman  -- in this case 6'11", 200 pounds.

    I don't think that guy has any eligibility left.  You should tell Coach McVean to look into his time in the NBA:

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsimg.bbc.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F39452000%2Fjpg%2F_39452538_manute270.jpg&hash=92787491046eb14d01148cbd2fc95f886a7674fb)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 06, 2007, 01:33:23 PM
    Bamm, what about Scott Young the 6'6 fresh they had last year? I forget his name but i thought he had a lot of talent.  Had a great frame, and could hit 3's. besides him yeah lack of big men for sure, mike carson is a space eater but not very good.

    Waleed Farid from Stevens made honorabe mention d3hoops. Only player in the E8

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bball05 on November 06, 2007, 05:40:48 PM
    i relle dnt think this stevens team is everything that every1 is sayin.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on November 06, 2007, 06:53:35 PM
    Well....I'm glad we got that cleared up.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 06, 2007, 07:07:46 PM
    I have my doubts as well but ill give them credit until the season starts atleast.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 06, 2007, 07:21:24 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 06, 2007, 07:07:46 PM
    I have my doubts as well but ill give them credit until the season starts atleast.

    Be wary. Stevens is good in many sports. Looks like they may be the school to dethrone Ithaca for the first time ever in the E8 Commissioner's Cup standings. I think they will be quality.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 06, 2007, 09:00:51 PM
    I personally think Stevens is going to be a solid team. One of the better teams in the league. But, I also believe that they will struggle more in the E8 then the skyline conference. I think it will be interesting to see, because we as posters, have basically nothing to go on except that they had a real good year last year. I am assuming that they will be a top level team in the league until I see otherwise

    I am also really excited to see the team that Fisher will put on the floor this season. I do not see a box score from the scrimmage against Waterloo on the webpage. Was anyone at the game? Anyone know who looked good? Who got the majority of the PT? Does anyone know anything about Waterloo? Who would they be comparable to?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 06, 2007, 10:06:22 PM
    I agree sjfcards. I definatly think they will be good but will struggle a little bit more then the previous year.  Last year was the first year Stevens has made the NCAA tourny.



    If you read previous posts.  Fisher is going with:

    Newman pg
    Baltz SG
    Bearden Sf
    Beigal PF
    Smalt C

    with Mckeever pg, wopperrer pf, Ozell frankling sg, and will coyte sf.

    No one looked terrific in the scrimmage, Newman was in foul trouble early so sat most of the game.  Beigal and smalt looked very sloppy.  Bearden was solid and baltz was off.  Mckeever played well off the bench and ozell franklin did not dress do to disciplinary reasons.  With that being said, they still pulled out an 8 point win againsts a descent very big waterloo team who also could not get the outside shot to drop.  Hard to compare waterloo to other teams, they are very big and athletic but play much differently since they play by the international rules. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 06, 2007, 10:17:59 PM
    Thanks for the info. Should be interesting!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on November 07, 2007, 09:46:57 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 06, 2007, 01:33:23 PM
    Bamm, what about Scott Young the 6'6 fresh they had last year?

    McVean seemed to play him less as last season progressed.  He's still with the squad, and I imagine he'll have a bigger role this season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 07, 2007, 06:47:38 PM
    Fishers lineup may see some changes throughout the beginning of the season.  Baltz played awful last year in the beginning of the season.  Kornaker sat him down and e saw very few minutes.  The game they beat Bport in the Chase he saw about 5 minutes.  Also, Neumann was sat down and also removed from the starting lineup a couple times.  We know that Beigal and Smalt are going to play if not in foul trouble, but the guard play is up in the air.  We could see anyone in at the 1-3 spots.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 07, 2007, 07:35:16 PM
    Kornaker always seem to tinker with his lineup early in the season, so I would expect that. From what I can tell, Newman and Baltz are solid in the guard spot, and Beigle will be beigle. If he stays out of foul trouble then Fisher should have 3 solid/proven players in the starting lineup. Bearden and Smalt both had up and down stretches last year, and I am not sure how they will react to being "the Guy". If Smalt plays like we have all seen him in the good strethces, Fisher will have another solid year. The other key is going to be which freshman/player who did not get much time last year, will step up and fill the blank spots.
    I trust Kornaker to put a good team on the floor, and I really think while he is the coach at Fisher, they will have a good shot at making the tourny every year. The guy knows how to coach, and has proven he knows how to recruit.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 07, 2007, 08:17:40 PM
    Normally I've got my schedules all made out and well pored-over by this time but this year other things have taken up my time.  The season begins next weekend with this slate of games:

    Friday, Nov. 16
    Nazareth vs. Oneonta (@UR)
    Hartwick vs. Lehman (@Mount St. Mary)
    Ithaca vs. Potsdam (@Clarkson)
    Elmira at Ferrum
    Skidmore at Stevens
    Alfred vs. Oglethorpe (@Gordon)
    Utica vs. TBA (@SUNYIT)

    Saturday, Nov. 17
    Hartwick  at Mount St. Mary/vs. Briarcliffe
    Nazareth vs. New Paltz (@UR)
    Ithaca at Clarkson/vs. Albany College of Pharmacy
    Alfred at Gordon/vs. Mount St. Vincent
    Merchant Marine/Middlebury at Stevens
    Utica at TBA

    Neither Utica nor SUNYIT has any info on their website about those games, UC fans any help here?

    What would be better for Ithaca on that 2nd day, to play what is usually a lowly Clarkson team, potentially hurting their computer numbers, or a non-D3 patsy like A.C. of P.?

    Fisher's opener is Nov. 20 at home against Hobart while RIT opens that same evening at York (N.Y.)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: whatman on November 07, 2007, 08:28:07 PM
    From what i saw at the scrimmage on Saturday, the McKeever kid looked good coming off the bench. I believed he played the whole second half except for the first 2 or 3 of the half. Newman looked terrible. I didn't really see any solid improvement from last year. I know, i know it was the first game but.....Mckeever does many things well. He takes care of the ball, can handle the point, plays good defense and has great court vision. I look for him to see many minutes. Biegel and Smalt will be fine, the big question is who is gonna cover if and when they get in foul trouble. The big men coming off the bench are subpar. I think for Fisher to win the Empire again Baltz is gonna have to hit every game like Mueller did last year and Biegel and Smalt need to be on the floor as much as possible. The league should be very competitive
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 07, 2007, 09:20:28 PM
    Quote from: E8HoopsFan on November 07, 2007, 09:07:09 PM
    lets take it easy about giving fisher the title this year. The top few players in the league dont play for them. Stevens has two top notch guards. McAdam and Herring are gonna be the two best players in the league this year, not to mention burton and bostic together at ithica. mcAdam has a good supporting cast. Herrings has a D-1 junior transfer guard and the best player from fulton mongomery went there as well. Fisher is deep and has a good all around starting 5, and is obviously coached well if you watch them play, but theyll need a team effort to win this year. Its gonna be wide open. Fisher, naz, utica, stevens, and ithica could all win. Should be a good year

    Welcome aboard, by your e-mail address I assume you are a Utica fan?  BTW, it's "Ithaca."  A minor spelling thing that probably only bugs us Bomber fans, but hey, if we don't do it right here at home then others outside the area will spell it wrong too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 07, 2007, 09:31:29 PM
    I know im in disagreement on this but Ryan Mcadam Corey's older brother has potential POY as well this year.  I dont think Corey is the best pg in the league, Id take Ryan over Corey.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 08, 2007, 04:10:18 PM
    All, I have pasted a link below to the season preview for the Ithaca men's basketball team. Here's my favorite quote:

    "You can't ever rule out [St. John] Fisher [College], they always reload. Utica always finds some late additions, and Stevens and Nazareth will be very strong. Winning the league wouldn't surprise [us], but someone else winning the league also wouldn't surprise me."

    I think Mullins meant that Utica finds some players who are "later" in their lives than the average college student. Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week, tip your waitresses.

    http://theithacan.org/am/publish/mbasketball/200711_Blue_and_Gold_loaded_with_offensive_talent.shtml

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 08, 2007, 04:16:15 PM
    haha
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 08, 2007, 11:40:07 PM
    Great article in The Ithacan today about the team, a great lay out and some good insight into the team. Don't really know much about the new players as Mullins only says the freshman have been "eye-catching" at times. Also it seems The bombers have made a major change to the offensive strategy on the south hill campus. The team should be fun to watch, with the "20 more possessions a game, Burton at the point and even more exciting when Bostic returns from football duties.
    The paper and quotes from the players gives me the impression the team has really come together and the nucleus of young talented players are ready to step their game to another level. The Bombers take on Morrisville State tomorrow night in a pre-cortaca scrimmage be sure to get your tickets early. I will have input from the scrimmage sometime after the aftermath of the football game.

    Go Bombers!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 09, 2007, 01:12:51 PM
    The E8 preseason coaches poll has come out, it went like this.

    2007 Empire 8 Men's Basketball Preseason Coaches Poll
    1.   St. John Fisher College (5 first-place votes)        61 points
    2.   Ithaca College (2)                                            52
          Stevens Institute of Technology (1)                   52
    4.   Nazareth College (1)                                        44
    5.   Utica College                                                   40
    6.   Rochester Institute of Technology                     29
    7.   Hartwick College                                             23
    8.   Elmira College                                                12
    9.   Alfred University                                              11

    Nothing real suprising there.  See below for the full story.

    http://empire8.com/News/20071109-1.shtml
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 09, 2007, 05:32:10 PM
    That's a heck of a slap in the face to Alfred if the coaches really think they're worse than the 4th grade CYO outfit at Elmira.  Yikes, I wonder if it's justified.  Lotta respect shown for Fisher (understandable) and IC (interrrrresting.)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 11, 2007, 10:32:10 AM
    I guess I did not give Ithaca the credit that they deserve. I expected to see Fisher and Stevens at the top, but maybe IC has more talent than I thought.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 11, 2007, 10:40:17 AM
    its a tough call sjfc.  yes ithaca has talent they have all conf playeres and i know bostic, burton can both play and leahy is a good big swingman then they have descent role players surrounding them.  However, its tough to give them credit when they havnt really done much in a while.  I think they have overacheived the past few years.  They do play physical D which i think is what helps them remain more consistent then say a nazareth.  But i do think this is goin to be a good year for Ithaca, there is a big diff. between sophmore and junior year, i think they will come together.  As far as fisher, saw some of the scrimmage against medaille. This is going to be a team that definitely peaks at the end of the season similarly to last year.  They are going to struggle scoring at times  but dont think they will go 0-2 against any team in the conference.  They are going to lose more games then normal and probably disapoint a lot of people come conf. tourny time if they make it. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 11, 2007, 09:07:47 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 11, 2007, 10:40:17 AM
    its a tough call sjfc.  yes ithaca has talent they have all conf playeres and i know bostic, burton can both play and leahy is a good big swingman then they have descent role players surrounding them.  However, its tough to give them credit when they havnt really done much in a while.  I think they have overacheived the past few years.  They do play physical D which i think is what helps them remain more consistent then say a nazareth.  But i do think this is goin to be a good year for Ithaca, there is a big diff. between sophmore and junior year, i think they will come together.  As far as fisher, saw some of the scrimmage against medaille. This is going to be a team that definitely peaks at the end of the season similarly to last year.  They are going to struggle scoring at times  but dont think they will go 0-2 against any team in the conference.  They are going to lose more games then normal and probably disapoint a lot of people come conf. tourny time if they make it. 

    You, good sir, are the first person I have ever head say that IC men's basketball has overachieved in recent years. They have been a model of medicrioty, the blueprint of "blah." They've had some good players on those teams (Bellis, Burton, Bostic, Roth, Andruskiewicz, Ty Schultz) but never did anything of note. Heck, they haven't even won one E8 Tourney game. I certainly don't think they have overachieved in any sense of the word and I'm sure Caz would back me up on this.

    Are you a relative of Jim Mullins or something?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 11, 2007, 10:53:50 PM
    I would say Ithaca has neither overachieved nor underachieved.  They've just kinda...achieved?  Mullins has never been able to find more than 2 or 3 good players at a time, not much in the way of bench production.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 11, 2007, 11:41:10 PM
    Despite what people think, Ithaca has underachieved in recent years. Back when they had Schulz, Bellis and Roth they were good, but Fisher was just better and has always had Ithaca's number. Fisher and Ithaca battled a few times in Ben Light Gymnasium over the past five years or so, some great games. Ithaca has always had the go-to players and role players but never really put it all together. After seeing Friday's scrimmage and seeing the new offense (10 times better than the old offense) Ithaca looks like a legit contender to take the E8 this year. The offense gets a lot more shots off and a better selection of shots for the players on the floor. Everyone seems to be in the right spot.

    Morrisville battled with Ithaca in both 20 minute periods, hung around for about ten minutes in both periods but then Ithaca kicked it into another gear with their offense. Ithaca also struggled when Morrisville through a little zone at them. They also struggled to guard some of Morrisville's players (Morrisville is much improved from a year ago) but will not face that much athleticism in conference play.

    Ithaca went with Burton and Ruffrage in the back court with Scanlon Leahy and Brown in the front court to start the scrimmage.  Rogers, Kail, Ruger and Cruz came off the bench to provide most of the rest for the starters along with a few minutes from junior newcomer Gianni Martera backing up Burton. 

    Tom Brown was very dominate down low especially early on, good moves, a few put back AND1s and a couple of jumpers. Looked much bigger from freshman year campaign and more polished down low too. I think all the Tom Brown naysayers will be eating their words when they see him play. Burton and Leahy shot very well. In the first period Burton started a run with a few shots and Ithaca took over from that point. Got quality minutes from freshman Matt Ruger and I see a lot of potential in freshman Chris Cruz. Scott Ruffrage also looks much more comfortable on the floor this season and Dom Scanlon as well. Good minutes off the bench from Brendan Rogers and Louis Kail and solid play from everyone in what would have been in my estimation a 25-30 point win if played like a game. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 12, 2007, 11:25:31 AM
    GoBombers, I guess i used the wrong word in overachieve.

    How come jim mullens is viewed as such a bad coach? I always thought ithaca played as good as they could with the talent. They always play physical good D, and switched up there looks a lot.  Yeah bostic and burton are good players but they were only fresh and sophmores its tough to win a league being that young. and before them they only had jim bellis. I think now that the team is older they will have a much better year than in past years and make a run at the league title instead of barely squeezing in the tourny.  However, i think that givin the size and quality of ithaca college i think they should be able to recruit much better players then they do that may be mullens weakness.  But i never played for him and dont even know him so who am i to judge.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 12, 2007, 11:51:18 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 11, 2007, 10:40:17 AM
    As far as fisher, saw some of the scrimmage against medaille. This is going to be a team that definitely peaks at the end of the season similarly to last year.  They are going to struggle scoring at times  but dont think they will go 0-2 against any team in the conference.  They are going to lose more games then normal and probably disapoint a lot of people come conf. tourny time if they make it. 

    I think you hit the nail on the head with the Fisher team. I think this year will be a lot like last year. They have some questions that need answering in the first few weeks of the season, and it may take some time for the answers to really be answered. I think as they go Kornaker will make certain changes and tweak the lineup to find a group that works, and by the end of the season, Fisher will have a formula that works.

    I agree that they will lose a few more games than normal, but I think by the time the trourny rolls around they will be right there for another E8 tourny title. Every year I think that Fisher may be a little down, but I have not seen much to prove that right.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 12, 2007, 12:42:27 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 12, 2007, 11:25:31 AM
    GoBombers, I guess i used the wrong word in overachieve.

    How come jim mullens is viewed as such a bad coach? I always thought ithaca played as good as they could with the talent. They always play physical good D, and switched up there looks a lot.  Yeah bostic and burton are good players but they were only fresh and sophmores its tough to win a league being that young. and before them they only had jim bellis. I think now that the team is older they will have a much better year than in past years and make a run at the league title instead of barely squeezing in the tourny.  However, i think that givin the size and quality of ithaca college i think they should be able to recruit much better players then they do that may be mullens weakness.  But i never played for him and dont even know him so who am i to judge.

    It's not necessarily that he is a "bad" coach as much as it is his inability to keep the team on a consistent plane. The "ups" are very good and the "downs" are pretty bad. It seemed that a complacency had set in around the program, like it was ok to consistently finish conference play at a game or two above .500 and be easily dispatched in the E8 semis each year. I'm not arguing that they were better than Fisher or Utica in the past few years, but there were opportunities to get a couple wins against those programs that Ithaca let get away.

    As far as his coaching goes, when I was a student there, Mullins made what I viewed as a lot of dumb decisions. For instance, there were several times when he went to a four-corners offense with over three minutes to play when his team was nursing a lead in the neighborhood of 3-7 points. It's like he was saying "please clock, run out before the other team comes back on us." That's just too early to go to that offense, especially when the point guard was Jon Whetstone who, bless his heart, was not an offensively gifted player, by any means. The play would be Whetstone firing a contested 18-foot jumper as the shot clock expired. I can't tell you how many leads IC blew or almost blew because of this tactic. There were times when Ithaca was leading at halftime and a friend would turn to me and say "do you think Mullins is going to go to the four-corners coming out of the locker room." That's obvious hyperbole, but the fact we were joking about it is telling.

    Some are of the opinion that many talented players leave the program before they even get a crack at the varsity team. I do think there is some merit to that. A lot will be learned this year. There are no excuses now. Brown and Ruffrage seem to be developing, the Big 3 will get theirs, and Ithaca seemingly always has at least one freshman who steps in and contributes immediately. Stevens lost their top player, Fisher seems to be vulnerable for the first time in awhile, and Utica has some big shoes to fill with the departures of Bryant and Lighthall. If IC doesn't win a regular season championship or an E8 Tourney in the next two years, I'm not sure they ever will.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 12, 2007, 04:43:24 PM
    GoBombers..minor correction.

    Stevens actually got back their best player (Williams).  He didn't play last year, but will play this year.  The only players they lost were the starting point guard and starting center from last year (who this kid Williams will replace).

    As far as Ithaca, I saw them play last year and the thing I came away with was that they have the talent to compete with most of the teams in this league but they randomly, as players, did things on the court that were head scratchers.  I'm sure every team has that but given how good some of their players could look, their lapses seemed a bit more obvious.  They would play well and then have stretches that i didn't know if they were attributable to youth or coaching.  I haven't seen enough to know about consistancy over the course of a year but i could see inconsistancy in the few games that i guess mirrors it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 12, 2007, 07:16:09 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on November 12, 2007, 04:43:24 PM
    GoBombers..minor correction.

    Stevens actually got back their best player (Williams).  He didn't play last year, but will play this year.  The only players they lost were the starting point guard and starting center from last year (who this kid Williams will replace).


    I do remember hearing that. I was basing my statement on their stats from last year. Williams missed all last season, correct?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 12, 2007, 11:28:27 PM
    Yeah, he missed all of last season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 12, 2007, 11:54:54 PM
    injury?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 13, 2007, 10:17:22 PM
    The coaches pre-season poll in my opinion is pretty accurate.  I would probably flip flop Ithaca and Utica making it a Fisher, Stevens, Naz, and Utica E8 tournament.  Stevens will come in and win the conference in their first year with Naz winning the conference tournament.  Just opinion.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2007, 11:04:07 PM
    Four days til tip off and Max pops his head in on Posting Up. Here's to the realization of the poll.....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 14, 2007, 08:52:43 PM
    Quote from: triplethreat on November 13, 2007, 10:17:22 PM
    The coaches pre-season poll in my opinion is pretty accurate.  I would probably flip flop Ithaca and Utica making it a Fisher, Stevens, Naz, and Utica E8 tournament.  Stevens will come in and win the conference in their first year with Naz winning the conference tournament.  Just opinion.

    You're obviously entitled to your opinion. However I'm not sure how accurate that opinion is. Ithaca returns all five starters, two likely 1st team all-conference players, loses nothing of note from last season, and has changed their scheme to accentuate their strengths. They're going to push the pace to get more possessions in a game because they believe, and rightly so, that they're going to have superior offense in most games. I'm obviously somewhat biased, but most think this is the year that IC makes the Leap, not falls back. The Bombers finished in 3rd place last year and I don't see them dropping to 5th with the amount of talent returning.

    If any team is due for a fall, it's Utica. In the last two years the Pios have lost Justin Cichon, Ray Bryant, Willie Lucas, and Jack Lighthall. This conference is as talented at the top as it ever has been. Goodemote is a good coach but we'll see how good when Utica doesn't have near the talent on the floor that it had over the past three seasons.  I think it's going to come down to the wire for that 4th and final spot in the E8 Tourney, with RIT, Naz, and Utica all battling for it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 15, 2007, 11:57:14 PM
    Pat, why does it say "leet" next to my posts number?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on November 16, 2007, 01:10:14 AM
    Bombers I must agree.  I think they start by going up and winning the tournament up north, though I will say that I will be rooting against them.  They should be class ahead of Potsdam, Clarkson and Albany Pharm.  I am still unconvinced by  Naz until they produce in the season.  Stevens & Fisher will be tough and Utica always comes to play.  May be a little down year for RIT barring any superstar transfers or freshman.  Alfred and Elmira well I can't remember the last UP year for either team.  Hopefully somebody besides Fisher breaks through.  It's getting monotonous!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 16, 2007, 06:15:34 PM
    E8 Basketball is underway for the 07-08 season and it's off on the right foot.  Nazareth defeats Oneonta 79-69 at UR's tournament.

    Corey McAdam 17 points 9 assists 4 steals; Rayvon Higdon 17 pts; Joe Canori 16 pts; Tyler Smith 12 pts 8 rebounds

    Ronald Stokes leads O-State with 17 pts 9 reb

    EDIT: No, never mind, different format for the tournament, Naz vs. New Paltz tomorrow regardless.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 16, 2007, 07:19:59 PM
    Will be interesting to see how IC does tonight w/out their top player (Bostic).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: unbearable on November 16, 2007, 08:02:16 PM
    Potsdam 93, Ithaca 82

    Game tied at 75-75. Potsdam ends on 18-7 run.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 16, 2007, 08:17:39 PM
    Dangit.  I hope Potsdam turns out to be good this year.  Shouldn't need Bostic to beat Albany College of Pharmacy tomorrow.  I've decided I'd rather play ACP and win a game that doesn't count than play Clarkson and have the "computer numbers" go down even with a victory.

    Bostic's football duties will be over by dinnertime tomorrow, barring a miracle....but I'd trade off being without him, say, through the Stagg Bowl ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 16, 2007, 09:46:31 PM
    All things considering, not a horrible result. Tied late with a solid team with Ithaca minus their top player. It's early still.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on November 16, 2007, 11:41:35 PM
    UC Playing with some injuries (including their likely top rebounder who is out for a while) beat Paul smiths 99-56. Last week in their scrimmage against Potsdam they had many injuries to some key players, but still spanked the bears.

    In todays game, James McClendon dropped 21 and 9 boards in just 17 minutes. Herring had 16 and 6 assists. Pat Goodman scored 16, Justin Maxwell had 13 points. Freshman PG James Patterson had 11 points and 5 assists in 15 minutes. Freshman AJ Trahms had 10 points in 12 minutes. Munch had 2 points and 6 assists.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on November 17, 2007, 09:06:31 AM
    Ithaca let Potsdam get too many 2nd chance points.  Burton as advertised extremely quick but may have tried to do too much by himself.  Leahy was unconscious hitting about six shots in a row in early to mid second half off dsihes usually from Burton, but bombers went away from that.. I didn't understand why?  Also Potsdam seemed to struggle with extended zone in the middle of the second half but that too seemed to be abandonned late in the game.  With a good rebounder (ie: Bostic) I believe results might have been different. Should have no prob with AlbanyPharm at all. 20 pt win and coasting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2007, 08:54:39 PM
    Ithaca beat Albany College of Pharmacy 100-50 today, an achievement on par with successfully tying their shoelaces in the locker room.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 17, 2007, 09:27:16 PM
    Anybody take in the Skidmarks/Stevens game?

    I really wish Fisher would have started this weekend. Oh well..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on November 17, 2007, 09:51:23 PM
    They would have started without their starting center.

    Smalt broke his hand.  Probably out 4-6 weeks.  JBeigal's now at the 5.

    Wonder if Mike Seiberg's regretting his decision to quit earlier in the week.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2007, 10:07:40 PM
    Stevens beat Middlebury 73-63, nice win over a NESCAC team.  No box available yet.

    Naz clobbered New Paltz 88-71 as expected...Naz with 5 in double figures led by Rayvon Higdon (19), Joe Canori (17) Ryan McAdam (12 pts 11 reb) and Corey McAdam (12 pts 6 reb 9 ast).

    Alfred is that terrible, the coaches were right.  Lost by 22 to Westfield State last night and an OT loss to Mount Saint Vincent (seriously?) tonight.  Garlen Patt and Ellis Walsh with 20 each for the Saxons.

    Elmira lost by 40 to Ferrum last night.  How a program can do such a great job at never ever improving even a little bit forever and ever is just beyond me.

    I don't want to alarm anybody but Hartwick is undefeated...they beat Lehman the other night by 10 and beat Mount St. Mary today on the road on a Jan Cocoapuffs 3 at the buzzer.

    Utica held off SUNYIT 75-66; McClendon 18 and 10, Herring 18 and 9, Goodman 16 and 6.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 17, 2007, 10:40:01 PM
    What, Smalt broke his hand out 4-6 weeks? I give it 6 weeks minimum, I bet he'll be out a good 8 weeks with rehab and what not. Seiberg quitting is huge too, wow the loss of those 2, in my opinion drop fisher down to a bubble team for the E8 tourny.  Its going to be hard to beat out Naz, utica, stevens and Ithaca. but hey maybe im overeacting, the E8 is a guard oriented conference so maybe going small will work out okay, we'll see.

    Anyone know who the starters are for Naz, is Higdon coming off the bench? I had a chance to see him play over the summer and did look much improved, hes a solid guy to have coming off the bench.

    The teams hartwick played are not good programs and they did this similarly last year.  But not taking anything from them I hope they have a descent year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2007, 10:56:56 PM
    The Naz starters the 1st two games have been the McAdamses, Canori, Tyler Smith and Leon Hill.  Higdon is indeed averaging 18 ppg off the bench.  Keep that up and the 6th Man of the Year Award won't just be a boat race, it'll be a....what's a good analogy here?  A space shuttle race?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 17, 2007, 11:44:49 PM
    Leon hill? haha

    whats up with dehimer or bizzelli or however u spell it.  Interest when you have all 5 starts back with the addition of ryan mcadam and and still have another guy who didnt get much run get into the starting line up.  Dehimer has to be hurt or not playing.


    Anyone see Bport lost, st. lawrence, ithaca.  Thats three top tier teams int here respective leagues.  yes bport and ithaca didnt have players however will hurt for an at large later on.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 18, 2007, 12:11:20 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 17, 2007, 10:40:01 PM
    What, Smalt broke his hand out 4-6 weeks? I give it 6 weeks minimum, I bet he'll be out a good 8 weeks with rehab and what not. Seiberg quitting is huge too, wow the loss of those 2, in my opinion drop fisher down to a bubble team for the E8 tourny.  Its going to be hard to beat out Naz, utica, stevens and Ithaca. but hey maybe im overeacting, the E8 is a guard oriented conference so maybe going small will work out okay, we'll see.

    Anyone know who the starters are for Naz, is Higdon coming off the bench? I had a chance to see him play over the summer and did look much improved, hes a solid guy to have coming off the bench.

    The teams hartwick played are not good programs and they did this similarly last year.  But not taking anything from them I hope they have a descent year.

    well that is disapointing news...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 18, 2007, 09:17:41 AM
    Went to catch the Stevens/Middlebury game last night.  73-63 win to move to 2-0 and took home the championship of their own tournament.

    They are a bit difficult to get a read on after two games but I can tell you the things I liked and didn't like.

    Good:
    I am 90-100% positive that this is the most athletic team in the empire 8.  The kid Gray and this transfer from Arizona, Michael Baker, flat out jump out of the gym and can really run.

    Straight man to man team (personal preference)

    The big kid Williams has started out the season with back to back double-doubles.  Teams that don't have a legitimate big download are going to have trouble stopping him.  He's too big and too skilled.

    Virgil Gray...22 points the first night, 23 the second.

    I like that they came back in the game last night.  Down 12 with like 15 minutes to go, came back to win by 10.  Shows a little bit of fight in them.


    Bad:
    Turn the ball over WAAAYYY too much.

    Don't shoot the 3 very well (with the exception of Passalacqua)

    Took a lot of stupid fouls.

    After Baker, bench seemed a little weak.  Starters play a lot of minutes.  I think he only played 9 guys last night.


    I'll try to get another game before then, but I'll be at the Stevens/Fisher game for sure.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 18, 2007, 09:35:38 AM
    Thanks for the Info, cyclone.

    I think Stevens is going get the first one on Fisher this year. Playing at Stevens, the loss of Smalt, and Fisher tends to struggle against athletic teams earlier in the season rather than later. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 20, 2007, 09:53:53 AM
    AU off to an 0-2 start at a tourney at Gordon College, MA:

    Saxons drop two in Tip Off Tournament at Gordon College

    Men¹s Basketball (0-2, 0-0 Empire 8) The men's basketball team lost its
    2007-08 season opener Friday evening, falling 74-52 to Westfield State in
    the first round of the Gordon College Tournament.
                Freshman forward Sean D'Auria (Highland Mills, NY/Cornwall
    Central) paced the Saxons with 11 points and five rebounds.
    Sophomore forward James Simermeyer (East Norwich, NY/Long Island Lutheran)
    tallied 12 points and three boards, while junior guard Carl Embury (Perry,
    NY/Perry) added six points, five rebounds and two steals.

             On Saturday, AU dropped a tough 102-101 overtime decision to Mt.
    St. Vincent in the consolation round of the Gordon College Tournament.
                Alfred connected on 51 percent of its shots in the contest with
    senior guard Garlen Patt (Nelson, PA/Elkland) and freshman forward Ellis
    Walsh (Penfield, NY/Penfield) each scoring 20 points.
                Mt. St. Vincent led by two (39-37) at the halftime break. Both
    teams were over 50 percent shooting from the floor in the first half with
    Alfred holding a slight edge (53-51).
                In the second half the Saxons found themselves trailing by 10
    points with only 1:40 to play. AU surged back and a Jon Maroney (Lockport,
    NY/Lockport) lay-up with 16 seconds left sent the game into overtime.
                Overtime played out much like the second half, with the Dolphins
    outshooting the Saxons 70 percent to 50. AU trailed 102-96 with seven
    seconds remaining but brought the score to within one on a last second three
    pointer from junior guard Carl Embury (Perry, NY/Perry).
                Other Saxons scoring in double figures were D¹Auria with 14,
    Simermeyer with 10, Maroney with 16, and Embury with 13.

    Last Week: L, 74-52 vs. Westfield State (11/16), L, 102-101 (OT) vs. Mt. St.
    Vincent (11/17)
    This Week: at Hilbert (11/20, 7 p.m.)



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 20, 2007, 01:08:46 PM
    The E8 tonight:

    Elmira at Cortland
    Alfred at Hilbert
    FDU Florham at Stevens
    Hobart at SJF
    RIT at York NY
    UR at Nazareth

    All winnable (even UR-Naz) except for Elmira, who would lose to their own women's team.  I don't expect Naz to win but it wouldn't shock me, I'm going to believe this is the year Naz makes "the leap" until proven otherwise.  Fisher should definitely win by about 10-15.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 20, 2007, 01:24:59 PM
    Predictions for Tonight based on Caz Bombers listing:

    The E8 tonight:

    Elmira at Cortland +15
    Alfred at Hilbert   +7
    FDU Florham at Stevens  +20
    Hobart at SJF + 6
    RIT at York NY + 3
    UR at Nazareth + 9

    Through reviewing my predictions tonight, I foresee a 2-4 record for the E8 tonight.  Agree with you Caz, all games are winnable except for elmira.  And I also think this is the year nazareth makes the leap, however, same with UofR, they are finally matured as well and will be much improved.  Coaching alone will win that game for UofR unless Nazareth is on fire.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on November 20, 2007, 01:29:50 PM
    The Smalt news would hurt...

    if he were any good.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on November 20, 2007, 01:39:16 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2007, 08:54:39 PM
    Ithaca beat Albany College of Pharmacy 100-50 today, an achievement on par with successfully tying their shoelaces in the locker room.

    +k
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 20, 2007, 07:55:40 PM
    any updates on the Fisher/Hobart game?

    I bought a new computer just to be able to watch games online, and now it does not work...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 20, 2007, 08:00:35 PM
    Last I heard it was 48-32 Hobart at the half! ??? Baltz the only one doing anything.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 20, 2007, 08:08:23 PM
    well that sucks...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 20, 2007, 08:21:11 PM
    Hobart up 6 with just under 10 left
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 20, 2007, 08:25:08 PM
    Fisher making a comeback? That is good to hear. Hopefully they can come all the way back.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 20, 2007, 08:39:36 PM
    Cardinals down 10 with 230 left......eeekkk
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 20, 2007, 08:50:59 PM
    Couple E8 Finals

    Cortland 84 - Elmira 58

    Stevens 82 - FDU Florham 48

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 20, 2007, 08:58:28 PM
    Hobart 84 Fisher 80
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 20, 2007, 10:04:08 PM
    Fisher drops season opener again this year to a below average Hobart squad.  Baltz doesnt shoot it that well but still manages to put in 24.  Beigel has a solid 16 and 11 but still just like usual cant stay out of foul trouble.  Guard play is very shaky as expected.  This could be a long year if the guards dont step up and someone doesnt step in to replace smalt until he gets healthy.  Grazioli owned Fisher all night.  We will see if Cards can bounce back against a solid Geneseo team who just beat NYU over the weekend.  A lot of question to this years Fisher squad?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 20, 2007, 10:04:49 PM
    E8's rough night continues. UR takes Naz with little trouble, 68-51. Box score coming later.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on November 21, 2007, 01:29:47 AM
    Saw Alfred getting handled pretty easily by a Hilbert squad.  Didn't stay to the end but Hilbert proabably won by 10-15 barring a miracle finish.  Alfred may be in for a long season because Hilbert other than Reinard was not the most impressive team I've seen.  Ithaca beat Albany Pharm by 50 points this weekend and Alfred was only marginally better than that team.  I must mention that the Ithaca coach was still pressing full court up by 40 in the middle of the second half.  I found that distasteful but I'm sure he had his reasons.  When Ithaca gets Bostic they will be pretty tough. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: whatman on November 21, 2007, 08:37:40 AM
    Quote from: Tags on November 20, 2007, 01:29:50 PM
    The Smalt news would hurt...

    if he were any good.

    Pretty arrogant statement buddy.....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: whatman on November 21, 2007, 08:45:27 AM
    Fisher will be fine....They have lost the first game the last couple of years and have bounced back. I would rather lose Smalt at the beginning of the year rather than the end. I still don't get Kornacker. How can you start McKeever (aka Adrian Fenyn), play him the first 3 minutes of the second half and have him sit until about the 5 minute mark. Meanwhile at one point in the second half i looked at the scoreboard and their was 4 players (mainly freshman) with a goose egg for points on the floor while Fisher was down by 14. I don't get it?? Once they put the starters back in together they made a run but ran out of time. There is no way Cornett should be seeing the floor for 24 minutes. Offensively he is no threat and he is slow on defense. I witnessed a few times where the player he was guarding went by him for a lay-up. Thankfully it's the first game but the loss of Smalt has and will hurt Fisher until he comes back. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 21, 2007, 09:11:16 AM
    The loss of Smalt is devestating as fisher has no depth at the big spots this year.  Also, if fisher has any shot at the league title Smalt needs to have a great season which he is capable of.  I had a feeling the hobart game would be close but thought fisher would take it being at home.  Its going to be a long year for the cardinals, every game is going to be a tough one.  They will have the capability to be the better teams in the region and also lose to the average ones as we saw last night.  It will be hard to judge fisher, similarilty to bport, until about 5 games into the 2nd semester with a healthy smalt, a  consistent rotation, and a little more game experience for the newbies.  Fisher is going to struggle against geneseo, especially playing away.  Fisher could very easily start the season off 0-2, even 0-4 before getting to D'Youville.  Although I think they will get RIT at home. 

    UofR is the team to beat in the region as I predicted earlier in the year.  They are very mature and senior heavy.  This is there last shot to go deep in the ncaa tourny for a few years as well so expect a good year out of them.  As far as Nazareth, they will be dangerous to any team, but like i said before that game was over before it starting due to the quality of coaching.

    Stevens looks to be better than predicted as St. Lawrence one of the top tier liberty league teams got smacked by middleberry who Stevens beat.  Through the first week of the Season Stevens looks to be the best team. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on November 21, 2007, 10:09:12 AM
    JAMAICA, NY – The RIT men's basketball team shot 57.4 percent from the field, en route to defeating York College 83-63 in the 2007-08 season opener.  Ten different players scored for RIT, who led by as many as 26 points.

    Freshman guard Shane Foster (Woodland Hills, CA/Calabassas), playing in his first collegiate game, led the Tigers in scoring with 15 points.  He drained three of RIT's 12 3-pointers.

    RIT's starting front court of forwards Kenny Gethers (Syracuse, NY/Bishop Grimes), Scott Young (Almond, NY/Hornell) and junior center Mark Carson (Voorheesville, NY/Voorheesville) combined to shoot 16-of-21 from the field with 40 points and 18 rebounds.  Gethers recorded 14 points, eight rebounds, three assists and three steals, while Young had 14 points and five boards.  He also was 4-for-5 from 3-point range.  Carson chipped in with 12 points and six rebounds.

    The Tigers shot 56.7 percent from the field in first half to open up a 43-26 lead at the break.  RIT ended the first half on an 18-5 run.

    Freshmen Shawn Roe (Corning, NY/Corning East), Nate Rizzo (Sherril, NY/V-V-S), and Nate Korinchak (Strongsville, OH/Strongsville) all scored for the Tigers in their collegiate debuts.  Korinchak started at point guard and dished out a team-best four assists.

    Sophomore Adam Sweet (Weedsport, NY/Weedsport) poured in a career-best seven points, while adding three rebounds and two assists.


    Michael Salamanca led York with 16 points and four assists.  The stout Tiger defense held York to just 36.2 percent shooting from the field.

    RIT out-rebounded York 38-29.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on November 21, 2007, 10:11:02 AM
    Colin Roy for RIT was also not in the box score. Still listed on the roster so I'm not sure if he's hurt or what.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on November 21, 2007, 10:38:44 AM
    Quote from: whatman on November 21, 2007, 08:37:40 AM
    Quote from: Tags on November 20, 2007, 01:29:50 PM
    The Smalt news would hurt...

    if he were any good.

    Pretty arrogant statement buddy.....

    Ya, except I've watched him since he was a Jr. in High School. When you're that huge, and only do what he did against class D schools who's tallest guy is 6'1, you're not that good.

    He's just a big body - 6 pts & 6 boards a game is a big loss? Double digit average in any category and I'd maybe buy into the huge loss thing... buddy.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 21, 2007, 10:46:14 AM
    6 and 6 boards? Yeah playing behind McSweeney, Isiah would be pulling closer to 13 and 10 this year.  When your other forward fouls as much as beigal does having the extra big body with senior experience and good skills is 'devestating' when big man depth is the major weakness to the team.  Yeah Isiaah underachieved in the past, but he has the talent and potential to dominate a game.  Did you see when he played John Onyereka for UofR in high school and dropped over 30 on him? I would say they were all 6'1.  If Isiahh played for any other school in the E8 the past 3 seasons he would his stats would have been much better than 6 and 6. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on November 21, 2007, 10:55:28 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 21, 2007, 10:46:14 AM
    6 and 6 boards? Yeah playing behind McSweeney, Isiah would be pulling closer to 13 and 10 this year.  When your other forward fouls as much as beigal does having the extra big body with senior experience and good skills is 'devestating' when big man depth is the major weakness to the team.  Yeah Isiaah underachieved in the past, but he has the talent and potential to dominate a game.  Did you see when he played John Onyereka for UofR in high school and dropped over 30 on him? I would say they were all 6'1.  If Isiahh played for any other school in the E8 the past 3 seasons he would his stats would have been much better than 6 and 6. 

    He never dropped 30+ on West.

    Hell he could barely drop 20+ on JT, Prattsburgh, et al.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on November 21, 2007, 10:59:56 AM
    Roy didn't play in the exhibition game against the Mohawk College (Ontario), either.  I have no idea why.

    I'm astonished by Mark Carson's stats thus far, even against inferior competition (39 points, 21 rebounds in 2 games).  He's 5-11 from the free throw line this season!  That kind of improvement doesn't come without some hard work. 

    It does look like RIT's freshman guards are going to be decent. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on November 21, 2007, 11:03:58 AM
    Speaking of frosh guards, I think if they allow Cornett to play some good minutes & get comfortable, he will be very solid for Fisher off the bench.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: whatman on November 21, 2007, 01:37:55 PM
    Quote from: Tags on November 21, 2007, 11:03:58 AM
    Speaking of frosh guards, I think if they allow Cornett to play some good minutes & get comfortable, he will be very solid for Fisher off the bench.

    Another brilliant statement.......keep em coming!

    PS Hey I, I see you have a fan.....lol....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on November 21, 2007, 02:09:21 PM
    Quote from: whatman on November 21, 2007, 01:37:55 PM

    Another brilliant statement.......keep em coming!


    Hey (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AbPVjN0hsm4TdKM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fstreams.gandhiserve.org%2Fimages%2Feinstein.jpg&hash=c942d9afb2217468715e16a3c644bfdfe3abd6a1), not all folks who are on a team will be able to have an impact coming off the bench - I merely pointed out that he will actually be able to if they allow him to get used to the college game early on.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: whatman on November 21, 2007, 02:24:42 PM
    lol......took awhile to think of that post huh?? Very creative....YOUR THE MAN!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 21, 2007, 02:30:19 PM
    Cornett played 24 min, 3rd most on the Fisher team, what do you mean allow him to get the minutes? looks like he IS getting the minutes to get comfortable. lets he gets comfortable soon so we can get more than 4 pts and 4 fouls out of him.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: whatman on November 21, 2007, 02:37:10 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 21, 2007, 02:30:19 PM
    Cornett played 24 min, 3rd most on the Fisher team, what do you mean allow him to get the minutes? looks like he IS getting the minutes to get comfortable. lets he gets comfortable soon so we can get more than 4 pts and 4 fouls out of him.

    Agree totally......He did not look good at all. After last night i hope the McKeever kid is not the new Adrian Fenyn. He should see more minutes than Cornett. Just because a kid was player of the year in highschool does not necessarily mean he is going to be a great college player. Big, big difference.....I hope Kornacker is more loyal to his seniors than he has been in the past because from what i have seen in the first few scrimmages and last night's game the freshman have a lot of work to do.....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on November 21, 2007, 03:05:43 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 21, 2007, 02:30:19 PM
    Cornett played 24 min, 3rd most on the Fisher team, what do you mean allow him to get the minutes? looks like he IS getting the minutes to get comfortable.

    Excellent point - if he played last night that automatically means he'll continue getting the minutes going forward.

    Quote from: whatman on November 21, 2007, 02:37:10 PM
    He did not look good at all. After last night i hope the McKeever kid is not the new Adrian Fenyn. He should see more minutes than Cornett. Just because a kid was player of the year in highschool does not necessarily mean he is going to be a great college player. Big, big difference.....

    Well, can't really argue with your basketball IQ there - I agree, everyone should be judged on how their first college game turns out.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on November 21, 2007, 03:11:08 PM
    Can we get some gents in here that can talk some basketball without needing these:
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AX5LtvjZ9hH4BPM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fimages.jupiterimages.com%2Fcommon%2Fdetail%2F89%2F60%2F22186089.jpg&hash=a3e35f570f572e779b2c5fec9cefd0c6f677806f)

    Max, Jose, Caz, Pep, Boobs... where art thou? I suppose I'll have to stick to football until you guys meander over.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 21, 2007, 04:26:04 PM
    Oh oh, I want in on the Fisher pissing contest.

    Quote from: Tags on November 21, 2007, 03:11:08 PM
    Can we get some gents in here that can talk some basketball without needing these:
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AX5LtvjZ9hH4BPM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fimages.jupiterimages.com%2Fcommon%2Fdetail%2F89%2F60%2F22186089.jpg&hash=a3e35f570f572e779b2c5fec9cefd0c6f677806f)

    Max, Jose, Caz, Pep, Boobs... where art thou? I suppose I'll have to stick to football until you guys meander over.

    1) Eh hem. I think I'm one of the voices of reason in here. I try to keep things on an even plane. Give teams their due when the deserve it, try to keep the over-exuberant Utica fans in check, try to control the Bill Walton of the E8 board (FisherDynasty) where I can.

    2) Good to see the RIT fans emerging. TF2, hope you had a nice honeymoon.  Can I contract your brother to perform that Soulja Boy dance at my wedding, too? Bamm, tremendous performance by the fiance at TF2's wedding.

    Quote from: whatman on November 21, 2007, 02:37:10 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 21, 2007, 02:30:19 PM
    Cornett played 24 min, 3rd most on the Fisher team, what do you mean allow him to get the minutes? looks like he IS getting the minutes to get comfortable. lets he gets comfortable soon so we can get more than 4 pts and 4 fouls out of him.

    Agree totally......He did not look good at all. After last night i hope the McKeever kid is not the new Adrian Fenyn. He should see more minutes than Cornett. Just because a kid was player of the year in highschool does not necessarily mean he is going to be a great college player. Big, big difference.....I hope Kornacker is more loyal to his seniors than he has been in the past because from what i have seen in the first few scrimmages and last night's game the freshman have a lot of work to do.....

    3) Way to rail on the coach who has taken the program to heights never seen before. You sound like...well, Fisher football fans after they lose one game.

    4) If you're going to start questioning a man's loyalty, can you at least spell his name correctly on a consistent basis? Just makes you seem like you know little about the program. Well, that's not true, your posts make you seem like you know little about the program. But spelling the head coach's name incorrectly doesn't help your cause.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: formerbant10 on November 21, 2007, 09:00:45 PM
    How about instead of trashing Fisher's rotation, you give some credit to the freshman point guard from Hobart.  He dominated that game.  Fisher made it's runs when he was on the bench and the backup pg (who dribbled the ball one time in his left hand) tried to give him a breather.

    Fisher would have won if they hit their free throws....bottom line.  Coach can't put the ball in for them.

    They'll be fine after a few games and they get their rotation down.....wouldn't worry too much.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: whatman on November 22, 2007, 10:28:43 AM

    4) If you're going to start questioning a man's loyalty, can you at least spell his name correctly on a consistent basis? Just makes you seem like you know little about the program. Well, that's not true, your posts make you seem like you know little about the program. But spelling the head coach's name incorrectly doesn't help your cause.
    [/quote]

    That statement made a lot of sense....Thanks Dad for the correction...I'll try harder next time....Doesn't matter how you spell his name, he has zero loyalty....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2007, 10:54:58 AM
    Quote from: whatman on November 22, 2007, 10:28:43 AM

    4) If you're going to start questioning a man's loyalty, can you at least spell his name correctly on a consistent basis? Just makes you seem like you know little about the program. Well, that's not true, your posts make you seem like you know little about the program. But spelling the head coach's name incorrectly doesn't help your cause.

    That statement made a lot of sense....Thanks Dad for the correction...I'll try harder next time....Doesn't matter how you spell his name, he has zero loyalty....
    [/quote]

    Good to see you're going to be this year's "that guy" on the board, whatman. We're glad to have you here. You make us all feel a lot smarter. I stand by my statement that it doesn't seem like you know a lot about the Fisher program. You're acting like one of those guys who came on at the end of last season that were complaining about Kornaker's alleged disparate treatment of Fenyn. Are you one of his buddies? You sure act like one. I'll tell you who Kornaker is loyal to: the players who've helped him win several consecutive E8 Tourneys and regular season titles.

    But that's enough divisiveness for today. I hope everyone has a Happy Turkey Day. The month between Thanksgiving and Christmas should be a lot more interesting this year now that league play is starting early this season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 22, 2007, 11:54:11 AM
    wow bill walton? come on he is the worst i cant stand the guy.  I think everything i say is concrete. If you disagree please post a rediculous comment that I have made. 

    anyways on too the kornacker bashing, I have to disagree with the loyalty thing.  I am against loyalty to seniors and all of that nonsense. the best players regardless of year should be in the game, senior or fresh.  I agree to get fresh more minutes in the beginning of the year to get them better and more experienced for the end of the year, even if it means sacrificing a little bit.  Fisher will indeed need cornett and ozell to have a good year.  Its my view and probably kornackers that they will need more help at the 2-4 spots than the pg come conference time, therefore, cornett needs the minutes now more than mckeever. Also if you havnt watched fisher since kornacker has been coaching, the rotation and minutes played will vary tremendously every game until a few games into the 2nd semester. Dont get me wrong, Mckeever is going to be very important to Fishers success as well especially him being a senior and having the experience.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2007, 12:08:28 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 22, 2007, 11:54:11 AM
    wow bill walton? come on he is the worst i cant stand the guy.  I think everything i say is concrete. If you disagree please post a rediculous comment that I have made. 


    It's not anything personal. You're just a big Fisher cheerleader. Nothing wrong with that. As they say in Almost Famous, "what do you expect, he's just a fan!" I don't think anything you say is necessarily "wrong," but sometimes you do go a little overboard with the statements (see loss of Smalt is "devastating").
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on November 22, 2007, 01:04:55 PM
    Props to Utica freshman guard James Patterson, named E-8 ROW for last week.  In addition to 11 points, five assists, and four steals against Paul Smith's Friday, and
    five points,  five steals and four rebounds against SUNYIT Saturday, his passing was very effective and also entertaining.

    The team is long on individual talent and atheleticism but leaves plenty of room for improvement on the team play side, especially on defense.  If they get on the same page and develop some chemistry, the talent is there at every positioon to be very very competitive.  Will be an interesting year for UC fans
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 22, 2007, 07:06:16 PM
    whatever you talk up ithaca more than i do fisher. I havnt said much positive about fisher this year so idk how i am a cheerleader.

    And i think saying the loss of isiah being devestating as it isnt that much off since they ended up losing the next night to average hobart team.  If smalt was playing the game would have been different.  Same with ithaca without bostic just not the same team.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 23, 2007, 12:18:13 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 22, 2007, 07:06:16 PM
    whatever you talk up ithaca more than i do fisher. I havnt said much positive about fisher this year so idk how i am a cheerleader.


    I talked up Ithaca by doing which of the following:

    1) Saying they'd come in 3rd in the conference this year? (Which I did, look it up if you want)

    2) Calling them a model of mediocrity for the last five years?

    3) Consistently voicing my opposition to much of what Jim Mullins does?

    So, tell me, which of those things makes me a guy who talks up Ithaca too much? Or is it because I say that Bostic and Burton are two of the best players in the league (find someone who would disagree with that)? Or is it because I think Ithaca should have a better team this year than the past because they return all 5 starters, 90+% of their team scoring, their three best players are now upperclassmen, etc., etc.? You call that cheerleading, I call that making obvious inferences.

    Everybody remembers you spending much of last year deifying Dan McSweeney. If you want to dispute that, I have a nice little excerpt that I found while looking at your past posts the other day. I'm more than willing to bust it out for you. I'm not disputing that McSweeney was a nice player and a very good player his senior year. But before that year, he had done very little of note. As far as Smalt goes, I'm with Tags. He's a decent player, but he is what he is, and that's a role player who will break out every once in a great while. I don't think he was the reason Fisher lost to Hobart. For that, I think you should look first to the whole shooting 58% from the FT line and 28% from distance while Hobart shot 81% and 40% in the same categories. That whole shooting thing probably had a bit more to do with the loss than the absence of Smalt.

    Finally, not sure you can compare the absence of Bostic (first team all-conference player) to the absence of a guy who averaged 6 and 6 last year. Anybody can see the difference. Just sayin.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on November 23, 2007, 01:25:32 AM
    Bamm or tgf2 any news on Colin Roy?    Damn fine kid I hope he's OK?  I'll certainly get the scoop on Sat-  going to Clarkson vs RIT game.   RIT probably too athletic for Clarkson, but I'm still looking forward to it. Barrett doing anything?  What I keep hearing about somewhat surprisingly is Carson??!!!   He must have put in some serious work over the summer!!!   Gethers is always going to be solid. Just love d-3 ball,  can't wait for the season to really start taking off!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on November 23, 2007, 02:06:55 PM
    This Smalt pissing contest is retarded.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 23, 2007, 03:09:11 PM
    next subject, i still would rather have mcsweeney then bostic, mcsweeney once again started and was the go to big man on the open empires this summer and is playing over in london doing very well.  Cant compare stats on teams. its liek saying dan mueller who i said before last season was going to have a huge year, would have avg the year before? nothing. bc he was behind obrien.  Smalt is an all conference play year if he plays up to his ability.  Is he going to? dont know in the past he hasnt but also hasnt seen the minutes. Yes the loss of bostic is worse then loss of smalt, nevertheless fisher will not win the conf without or have a 20 win year without smalt healthy just as ithaca will not have a shot a winning the conference without bostic. 

    any predictions on upcoming games this weekend?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on November 25, 2007, 11:36:35 PM
    RIT manhandles Clarkson.  Jumps out to 20-4 and never looks back.  I was impressed by the frosh pg Korinchak.  He doesn't have the offensive firepower of Burton, but he might be as quick and defensively he is tremendous.  Carson has slimmed down and stepped up his game dramatically.  All in all RIT looked very good.  Tuesday's game against Potsdam should be a good indicator.  Potsdam has athletic guards who rebound well off the offensive glass.  And their bigs should be about even with RIT.  Potsdam does have one 6'8" with a name like Siskavich that can fire from long range when given time.  I'll be interested to see the outcome.  My prediction is RIT by 5. Colin Roy also played his first minutes after a calf injury and held up very well. Gethers was his athletic self, Barrett shot well from outside and convinced the refs he was fouled several times. Other freshman contributed too Shane Foster is a pesky defender and at 6'11" Nate Rizzo has something that you can't teach.  He'll be a factor as he matures.  Thought this frosh class was really good.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on November 26, 2007, 12:24:49 AM
    Potsdam/RIT should be a good early season test for both teams.  I agree with your assessment.  By the way, Potsdam also has a 6-11 freshman in Greg Lothridge, so the Rizzo/Lothridge matchup should be a preview of two potential D-III difference makers in the coming years.

    The key for RIT will be how much/well the veterans, Whitwood and Roy will play coming off injuries.  Not surprised by Carson's emergence as a force, he spent two years in practice getting beat up by Bacon, that tends to get you better over time. 

    Would be interested if the three first half fouls against Pickering were legit or "welcome to Rochester" type fouls.
    Game was out of hand, but he did show the force he can be inside in the second half.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 26, 2007, 09:44:28 AM
    predictions through tuesday of this week:

    Skidmore vs hartwick +1
    New Paltz vs Vassar +10
    Alfred vs Hobart +12
    Hamilton Vs Utica +2
    Fisher Vs. Geneseo +4
    St. Lawrence vs Plattsburgh +5
    Potsdam vs. RIT +4

    Theres  alot of good matchups this week and some good measuring indicaters.  I think the home team will will come out on top in these matchups.

    LL 2-3
    SUNYAC  2-2
    E8 3-2
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 26, 2007, 01:33:17 PM
    How does this board always turn into an episode of Crossfire?

    Everyone relax.  It's November.  These teams are going to change so much in the next two months that we won't know anything concrete about them until January.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 26, 2007, 07:40:54 PM
    One major change has already taken place and that is Jeff Bostic returning to the Bombers basketball team. Bostic has been practicing with the bombers since the return from thanksgiving and looks like he has gotten stronger and looks like he has 2% body fat. Not sure whether he will be ready to get tons of playing time but has the next few days to get his basketball legs back and get the plays down. When i spoke with him on campus today he said the only thing holding him back was the new shoes.

    Even though i was not in Potsdam last weekend, i was at the Garden watching UCONN take on Memphis, Bostic would have made a difference for the bombers on the offense and defensive glass where they were hurt by Potsdam's athleticism. Big weekend for the bombers, it might be a hard adjustment for Coach Mullins to have conference games this early in the season as he is known for getting tough non conference match-ups in Nov. and Dec. to prepare the team for league play in Jan.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 26, 2007, 10:12:05 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on November 26, 2007, 07:40:54 PM
    One major change has already taken place and that is Jeff Bostic returning to the Bombers basketball team. Bostic has been practicing with the bombers since the return from thanksgiving and looks like he has gotten stronger and looks like he has 2% body fat. Not sure whether he will be ready to get tons of playing time but has the next few days to get his basketball legs back and get the plays down. When i spoke with him on campus today he said the only thing holding him back was the new shoes.

    Even though i was not in Potsdam last weekend, i was at the Garden watching UCONN take on Memphis, Bostic would have made a difference for the bombers on the offense and defensive glass where they were hurt by Potsdam's athleticism. Big weekend for the bombers, it might be a hard adjustment for Coach Mullins to have conference games this early in the season as he is known for getting tough non conference match-ups in Nov. and Dec. to prepare the team for league play in Jan.

    I definitely think it hurts Ithaca to play those conference games so early in the season. Bostic takes a few games to get back in the swing of things. It would have been nice to play Hartwick first so that Mullins could have played Bostic a ton and not had to worry about him making mistakes. Instead, they open with Utica. That will be a good game. It's odd that their season series w/the Pioneers is going to be done on Jan 5th.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 26, 2007, 11:03:56 PM
    Hartwick beat skidmore 67 - 56 tonight.  Looks like after beating elmira in their next game they are going to be 5'0 going into the hartwick match up. Not too shabby of a start even though they havnt beat anyone above average.  Coco crisp is having an mvp type season so far though must say, 36 pts 11 boards in one of the games this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 27, 2007, 02:11:28 AM
    If my memory serves me, Hartwick has spent the last couple years beating up on the poor sisters of D3 and comes crashing back to reality during the conference season. It's nice to see their steady improvement from perennial doormat to team that can potentially put a scare into you given the right circumstances. With that said, I still think they're firmly entrenched in the #7 spot in the conference. Too much talent at the top of the league.

    By the way, how many days away are we from seeing MadHawk reappear under a new alias?
    Title: Radio Coverage of Bombers Basketball
    Post by: WICB Sports on November 27, 2007, 01:00:25 PM
    Radio coverage of this weekend's men's basketball games at Ithaca College begins Friday night at 7:40 p.m. with Bombers Shootaround on VIC Radio (www.vicradio.org).  At 8 p.m., Dan Cassavaugh and Mike Hibbard have the call of the game from Ben Light Gymnasium.

    On Saturday, VIC Radio's coverage continues with Bombers Shootaround at 3:40 p.m., followed by tip-off from the Hill Center at 4 p.m.  Pete Sachs and Zach Tomanelli have the call.

    On Sunday evening, tune in to Sports Talk on 92 WICB (www.wicb.org) for a full recap of the men's and women's basketball games from the weekend with the key weekend's key players live in studio.

    On Tuesday, Dec. 4, Ithaca hosts rival Cortland State.  VIC Radio's coverage begins at 7:40 p.m. with Bombers Shootaround before Dan Cassavaugh and Pete Sachs have the call at 8 p.m.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 27, 2007, 02:02:29 PM
    Fisher has their hands full tonight with a tough non-conference game against Geneseo.  This game could very easily put Fisher at 0-2.  Geneseo is coming off a huge win at NYU.  But, you never know the Cards have handled Geneseo in past....The guard play must show up for Fisher for them to have a shot.  We will see. I got Geneseo by 6.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on November 27, 2007, 02:08:06 PM
    Quote from: Tags on November 21, 2007, 03:11:08 PM
    Can we get some gents in here that can talk some basketball without needing these:
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AX5LtvjZ9hH4BPM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fimages.jupiterimages.com%2Fcommon%2Fdetail%2F89%2F60%2F22186089.jpg&hash=a3e35f570f572e779b2c5fec9cefd0c6f677806f)

    Max, Jose, Caz, Pep, Boobs... where art thou? I suppose I'll have to stick to football until you guys meander over.

    Tags, stop "supposing to have to stick to football" when your team is playing in the quarters.

    I'll be over... keep in mind I know far less about IC Bball than football, which isn't very much anyway, and living out west I can't see any games... if you guys keep up the banter like this though, it'll be hard to stay away.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 27, 2007, 03:06:16 PM
    Triplethreat, at first i was impressed by the NYU victory, but then I saw that York, NY beat them by 17 and RIT beat York by 20.  So the NYU team is weaker than in the past.  However, knowing the geneseo personnel fairly well, I still think Geneseo will beat Fisher by 5-6 pts.  Being at geneseo and no smalt, they could win by even more.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 27, 2007, 03:57:28 PM
    Wow, that is very interesting to me.  I did not know that NYU lost to York.  Must be a rebuilding year for them.  Yes Geneseo is favored in this game and should come out on top.  Fisher needs to play a very solid game and have Geneseo play poor for the Cards to pull out a win.  This is a game that Fisher needs to win with a tough schedule coming off a loss to an average or below average Hobart team.  If Fisher struggles with teams like that they will struggle to finish in the top 4 in the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 27, 2007, 07:28:31 PM
    Wow...hard to believe that Fisher may struggle to get into the tournament. The E8 tournament that is...

    If they don't make the top 4 in the league it would be a sad day in Fisher Basketball.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2007, 08:04:29 PM
    Hobart is rolling up Alfred, 48-30 early 2nd half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2007, 08:13:30 PM
    14-1 Alfred run gets 'em back in it but it's now 53-44 Hobart with under 12 to go.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 27, 2007, 08:19:12 PM
    any updates on the Fisher/Geneseo game? The Livestats is having problems, and I don't want to wait for scores...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2007, 08:44:00 PM
    Hobart 87, Alfred 78 the final.  Ellis Walsh with 19 off the bench in defeat for the Saxons, Adam Salzmann with 29 for the Punkinheads.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2007, 08:46:53 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 27, 2007, 08:19:12 PM
    any updates on the Fisher/Geneseo game? The Livestats is having problems, and I don't want to wait for scores...

    I'm showing 73-61 Fisher with 5:44 to go...but I guess that's where it's frozen.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 27, 2007, 08:48:15 PM
    Geneseo 32 Fisher 29 at the half......
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 27, 2007, 08:50:52 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2007, 08:46:53 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 27, 2007, 08:19:12 PM
    any updates on the Fisher/Geneseo game? The Livestats is having problems, and I don't want to wait for scores...

    I'm showing 73-61 Fisher with 5:44 to go...but I guess that's where it's frozen.

    That is from the Hobart game. If you look at the teams it is Hobarts stats.

    Thanks for the info...boy I think Fisher needs this one.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 27, 2007, 09:18:27 PM
    Some other E8 scores of note:

    RIT defeats Potsdam, 79-70.

    Hamilton clips Utica, 73-63. Herring leads Utica with 18 and is only player in double-digits for the Pioneers. Result never in doubt as Utica down double-digits for almost entire 2nd half.

    Stevens over City College of NY, 70-57.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 27, 2007, 09:18:51 PM
    Fisher down a couple with 8 minutes left
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 27, 2007, 09:25:21 PM
    57-51 Geneseo with about five left
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 27, 2007, 09:34:07 PM
    A good one in Geneseo, Fisher down 2 with 1 minute to go.....could get interesting
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 27, 2007, 09:42:44 PM
    Lets go Fisher...could be a big moment early in the season...Especially with E8 play on the horizon
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 27, 2007, 09:43:19 PM
    67-64 Geneseo on the line with 6 ticks left....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 27, 2007, 09:44:43 PM
    68-64 Geneseo squeeks it out my 6 points wasnt a bad guess.......Fisher drops to 0-2 for first time in a while im thinking
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 27, 2007, 10:03:16 PM
    First time in at least 10 years maybe 20.  from looking at the box score it looks as if kornacker was searching for anyone to step up and has a limited number of options mainly freshman.  Mark Bearden needs to shoot 8-10 shots a game and avg atleast 10 pts a game if fisher wants any chance to live up to expectations. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 27, 2007, 10:17:45 PM
    NYU is going to have a very down year from what they have had. They are rebuilding and lost 2 time east region player of the year Jason Boone, along with two other starters to graduation. Boone is a close friend of mine and current plays overseas in Germany. He also dunked directly over McSweeney in the Empire State Games two years ago up at RIT.

    Anyways back to what matters, did anyone catch the Utica game tonight, how did they look? Any thoughts heading into fridays match-up with the bombers?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 27, 2007, 10:23:32 PM
    Yeah Boone visited Fisher and almost went there.  Chose NYU over both Fisher and Cornell (it was down to those 3).  I also saw the dunk over McSweeney, it was pretty nasty. Too bad they couldnt have played together. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 27, 2007, 10:43:00 PM
    Could we see Fisher start off 0-3 possibly 0-4 after this weekend?  They have two very tough games this weekend against RIT and Stevens.  This Fisher team needs someone to step in and give them a boost.  Who is it going to be?  The losses of senior all conference players McSweeney and Mueller are really hurting Fisher with no one besides baltz and Biegal doin anything at all........
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 27, 2007, 10:49:22 PM
    with a healthy Smalt fisher is 2-0.  but yeah Definately a possible 0-4 coming up, I think they'll have to be considered the underdogs in both games, if they squeeze 1-2 of two out that would be a good wkend.  that makes them 1-3? not a good start.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on November 28, 2007, 12:47:11 AM
    Quote from: thebear on November 26, 2007, 12:24:49 AM
    Potsdam/RIT should be a good early season test for both teams.  I agree with your assessment.  By the way, Potsdam also has a 6-11 freshman in Greg Lothridge, so the Rizzo/Lothridge matchup should be a preview of two potential D-III difference makers in the coming years.

    The key for RIT will be how much/well the veterans, Whitwood and Roy will play coming off injuries.  Not surprised by Carson's emergence as a force, he spent two years in practice getting beat up by Bacon, that tends to get you better over time. 

    Would be interested if the three first half fouls against Pickering were legit or "welcome to Rochester" type fouls.
    Game was out of hand, but he did show the force he can be inside in the second half.
    Bear it would not have mattered if Pickering had unlimited fouls, game was over early.  Ref crew was awful but did not affect outcome. The one call that really teed me off was a ref giving the Clarkson coach a T with .1 second left on the clock before half time after the scorekeeper let the clock run for at least a second after the ball was tossed out of bounds by RIT (which was up by I think 19 at the time). The Clarkson coach asked the ref about the time and my understanding was that the ref said it wasn't his job to watch the clock.  I don't know what was said to cause the T but it seemed to me that you just say something like I don't have replay, here's the ball, half over!!  Instead he gives 2 points to RIT on a tech. as they made the shots.  Maybe it was tough to get a crew on Thanksgiving weekend?   On a positive note I thought that the game between RIT and Potsdam would be close but go in RIT's favor at home.  Think it might go differently up north.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 28, 2007, 08:55:08 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 27, 2007, 10:03:16 PMMark Bearden needs to shoot 8-10 shots a game and avg atleast 10 pts a game if fisher wants any chance to live up to expectations. 

    Whose expectations?

    Quote from: whatman on November 28, 2007, 08:48:30 AMIf you ask me Korny is playing for next year already.

    Seems right.  No chance this is an overreaction.  In fact, I heard Kornaker has decided just to forfeit all remaining road games and save the travel money so Fisher can fly to road games next year.

    You guys kill me.  Its 0-2 and its not football.  Get a drink or something.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on November 28, 2007, 09:59:19 AM
    ROCHESTER, NY – The RIT men's basketball team improved to 3-0 after a 79-70 win over SUNY Potsdam on Tuesday evening. The 3-0 start by the Tigers is their best start since the 1999-00 season.

    RIT jumped out to a 12-point lead early in the first half but the Bears responded with a 22-10 run at the end of the half, scoring the final eight points. Anthony Williams tied the score with a lay-up with 23 seconds remaining in the half.

    Neither team shot the ball well in the first half. RIT went 9-for-30 (30%) from the floor in the first half and Potsdam shot 38.5% from the floor.

    Barrett Zeinfeld (Tucson, AZ/Catalina Foothills) led RIT with seven first-half points on 3-for-3 shooting. Mark Carson (Voorheesville, NY), Kenny Gethers (Syracuse, NY/Bishop Grimes) and Nate Korinchak (Strongsville, OH) each had four points.

    Serge Clement paced the Bears with nine first-half points. Anthony Williams added six points and Devin Taft and Brendan Graney each had five.

    The Bears kept the momentum to start the second half, scoring the first four points of the half. Postdam took their biggest lead of the game on a jumper by Alvin Dike, giving the Bears a 41-33 lead.

    RIT responded with a 29-9 run midway through the second half to re-gain the lead. The Tigers took their biggest lead on a three-pointer by Scott Young with 7:37 to play.

    The Tigers shot 53.3% from the floor in the second half on 16-of-30 shooting from the floor. Scott Young scored six of his nine points in the second half.

    Mark Carson scored 13 of his game-high 17 points in the second half. He also grabbed a team-best 13 boards.

    Kenny Gethers finished with 13 points, eight rebounds and went 7-of-10 from the charity stripe.

    Rick Whitwood (Wellsville, NY) finished with seven points, 10 rebounds, three assists and two steals. Freshman Shawn Roe (Corning, NY/Corning East) came off the bench and scored 10 points, nine of which came in the second half.

    Brendan Graney paced the Bears with 16 points and nine rebounds. Dike added 14 points and Anthony Williams finished with 11 points and 10 rebounds.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on November 28, 2007, 10:03:53 AM
    Carson went for 17pts despite is 3-11 performance from the FT line. Nice to see he's back to his old form there.

    Looks like McVean is doing what he usually does, which is play a ton of different guys. 9 players over 10+ minutes (although this is less than normal for him) with only Carson playing more than 26 minutes. Pretty balanced as it usually is with RIT as 4 players score in double figures and S. Young chipping in with 9pts.

    Hopefully RIT can finally get over the hump vs. Fisher this year, they typically play them close and find a way to lose late.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 28, 2007, 10:51:38 AM
    The expectations of the E8 COACHES who predicted Fisher to win the Conference.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 28, 2007, 01:26:59 PM
    Quote from: tigerfan2 on November 28, 2007, 10:03:53 AM
    Carson went for 17pts despite is 3-11 performance from the FT line. Nice to see he's back to his old form there.

    Looks like McVean is doing what he usually does, which is play a ton of different guys. 9 players over 10+ minutes (although this is less than normal for him) with only Carson playing more than 26 minutes. Pretty balanced as it usually is with RIT as 4 players score in double figures and S. Young chipping in with 9pts.

    Hopefully RIT can finally get over the hump vs. Fisher this year, they typically play them close and find a way to lose late.

    TF2, I was going to make the joke last night that it looked like Carson is filling Bacon's shoes beautifully, right down to the fact that they put up the same type of numbers while both being utterly awful at the FT line. I figured that I'd save it for you and Bamm. Is this kid's form that bad? It's been the subject of a few conversations on here. I'm interested to see it.

    I've put my revised conference predictions below. Disclaimer: Fisher fans, I'm not trying to pile on. It just seems like this season is turning into the perfect storm for all the other teams with respect to how they match up with Fisher. The Cards seem a little "down" this year, while most of the other teams seem primed to have good conference seasons. With that said, I'm still of the opinion that Fisher can make the E8 Tourney if their young guys can step up a little more and Smalt can give them as big of a lift as FD thinks he can (not a knock). The hole may be too deep, though, by the time he gets back (I have no knowledge re: his expected return...Fisher guys, know anything?).

    1) Stevens (14-2)
    T-2) Ithaca (11-5)
    T-2) RIT (11-5)
    4) Nazareth (10-6)
    T-5) Utica (9-7)
    T-5) Fisher (9-7)
    7) Hartwick (7-9)
    8 ) Alfred (2-14)
    9) Elmira (0-16)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 28, 2007, 06:27:43 PM
    I can't quite yet imagine a world in which Fisher doesn't make the E8 tournament.  Which is too bad, because that's a world I'd very much like to live in.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on November 29, 2007, 01:10:45 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on November 28, 2007, 01:26:59 PM(I have no knowledge re: his expected return...Fisher guys, know anything?).

    His rehab's progressing better than normal, according to doctors.  No exact timeframe has been given.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 29, 2007, 09:32:30 AM
    Does anyone know what happened to Matt Haley? is he hurt? or did he quit? It has to be one of the too, if he didn't quit he will definatly help when he gets back, great 6'7 athlete.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: EntourageFan85 on November 29, 2007, 12:54:09 PM
    Here's a question for you Empire 8 fans, has Hartwick beat tough teams to be unblemished right now or just cakewalk teams. Curious as an O-State fan with their game on Dec. 4th. Any answers is appreciated.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on November 29, 2007, 01:49:07 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 28, 2007, 06:27:43 PM
    I can't quite yet imagine a world in which Fisher doesn't make the E8 tournament.  Which is too bad, because that's a world I'd very much like to live in.

    That's beautiful.


    Quote from: Cadillac on November 29, 2007, 01:10:45 AM
    His rehab's progressing better than normal, according to doctors.  No exact timeframe has been given.

    That post really does it for me, too.  I like to imagine Kornaker holding a press conference, surrounded by some orthopedic specialist, the team doctor, and a couple of trainers, answering questions about the status of a slightly above average division three baller.  You Fisher guys are really rich sometimes.



    I can't speak to the Tigers success to start the season.  I thought the freshman would be good.  But sadly, I still haven't been to a game.  Really would have liked to have seen that victory over Potsdam. 

    That Mark Carson has suddenly become a 15 and 10 guy is something I really need to see with my own eyes. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 29, 2007, 03:13:42 PM
    Matt Haley doesnt deserve to play.  He is soft inside and does not like to bang inside with the bigs.  He may be a little athletic but all he wants to do is shoot jumpers and not go inside.  He brings nothing to the table, therefore he doesnt see the floor.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 29, 2007, 03:48:20 PM
    Yeah I heard that about him.  I just wondered, the kid if he had the work ethic could be the one of the best big men in d3 by his senior year.  But then again, thats why he is playing d3 not d1. 

    Entourage, Hartwick has not played or beat anyone good, or even average (excluding mt. st mary's never heard of them).  However, they are a descent ball club who plays pretty good defense and plays hard. I think the Oneonta game will be a pretty close game with Oneonta coming out on top pulling it out at the end.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 29, 2007, 03:52:17 PM
    Hypothetically, here's my guess at what lines would be for this weekend (conference only):

    FRIDAY

    Alfred at Stevens (-18.5)
    Hartwick (-10.5) at Elmira
    RIT (-3.5) at Fisher
    Utica at Ithaca (-5.5)

    SATURDAY

    Utica (-15.5) at Elmira
    Hartwick at Ithaca (-9)

    SUNDAY

    Fisher at Stevens (-8)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 29, 2007, 08:16:07 PM
    I think that's five straight deleted posts for Whatman. Quite the record when you think about it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on November 30, 2007, 02:00:56 AM
    Quote from: bamm on November 29, 2007, 01:49:07 PM
    Quote from: Cadillac on November 29, 2007, 01:10:45 AM
    His rehab's progressing better than normal, according to doctors.  No exact timeframe has been given.

    That post really does it for me, too.  I like to imagine Kornaker holding a press conference, surrounded by some orthopedic specialist, the team doctor, and a couple of trainers, answering questions about the status of a slightly above average division three baller.  You Fisher guys are really rich sometimes.

    Excuse me.  It was the answer to a question posed.

    If reading too much into statements amuses you... well... I'm sure this post will somehow put you in stitches too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 30, 2007, 02:46:37 AM
    Cadillac....you seem very close to Isaiah......are you a relative?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on November 30, 2007, 10:25:10 AM
    Yes.

    A couple of things I am NOT:
    1) someone who feels the need to defend Smalt at every perceived slight
    2) a Fisher homer

    I'm just a guy who's watched a lot of E8 basketball in the last 4 years, and a guy that hears a lot of information about the team (and not necessarily from Isaiah).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on November 30, 2007, 10:39:06 AM
    Enough about me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 30, 2007, 12:13:24 PM
    hmmmm....interesting.  Everytime you have something to say it is about either Fisher or your boy Isiaih.  So I see your last statement as false.  But oh well. Lets get to a new topic.  Fisher has a tough weekend ahead of them.  They could come out of this weekend 0-4 (0-2) if they dont come to play.  This RIT team seens to be much improved and playing some good basketball and Stevens is a very, very good team.  So we will see by the end of the weekend.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on November 30, 2007, 05:02:28 PM
    Quote from: triplethreat on November 30, 2007, 02:46:37 AM
    Cadillac....you seem very close to Isaiah......are you a relative?

    Quote from: Cadillac on November 30, 2007, 10:25:10 AM
    Yes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 30, 2007, 06:16:45 PM
    Any pre-game predictions for the opening night of empire 8 conference play?

    Heres what I got...

    RIT at Fisher -2
    Utica at Ithaca -5
    Alfred at Stevens +20
    Hartwick at Elmira  -13
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 30, 2007, 06:40:06 PM
    Quote from: triplethreat on November 30, 2007, 06:16:45 PM
    Any pre-game predictions for the opening night of empire 8 conference play?

    Heres what I got...

    RIT at Fisher -2
    Utica at Ithaca -5
    Alfred at Stevens +20
    Hartwick at Elmira  -13


    Your lines are somewhat confusing. Are you saying that Utica is favored at Ithaca??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 30, 2007, 06:40:36 PM
    As Jose said earlier its going to be really hard to predict until a few games in during the 2nd semester but ill give it a shot.

    RIT at Fisher +2
    Utica at Ithaca +3
    Alfred at Stevens +20
    Hartwick at Elmira +17

    Pretty much the same, cant tell about the rit fisher game yet or the utica ithaca. both should be good games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 30, 2007, 07:23:45 PM
    How are they confusing? The teams on the right are either plus or minus.  And yes Utica is favored by 5 in my opinion at Ithaca....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 30, 2007, 07:58:20 PM
    Here's my guess at tonight's final scores (as always, my goal is to hit one score right on the head before season's end):

    RIT over Fisher, 72-66.
    Ithaca over Utica, 71-63.
    Stevens over Alfred, 80-55.
    Hartwick over Elmira, 70-60.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 30, 2007, 08:43:24 PM
    Looks like a back and forth game in the first half at Fisher with the home team leadin 42-38 at the half.  Scoot Young lights up Fisher for 16 in the first half, he must be really improved because last year he did absolutely nothing and just sat at the three point line and shot 3s.  Fisher has a balanced scoring attack with 3 or 4 guys at 7 or more.  The second half should be an interesting one. Well see.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 30, 2007, 08:59:34 PM
    Frenetic game in Ithaca. Both teams had a lead of 7 in the first half with Utica rallying to take a 35-34 lead into the locker room. Bostic showing flashes but making some mistakes, too (fouling 3-pt shooter, offensive goaltending). Big three with 8, 8, and 7, respecitively. Herring and Maxwell with 10 each for the Pios.

    Game is very intense. Radio announcers making it seem like teams aren't big fans of each other. Big crowd at The Bulb which is always nice to see.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 30, 2007, 09:20:36 PM
    Utica is listed as "RPI" on Ithaca's live stats for some reason, but those are Utica's players so it's definitely tonight's game.  IC up by 6 with 14+ to go.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 30, 2007, 09:38:48 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 30, 2007, 09:20:36 PM
    Utica is listed as "RPI" on Ithaca's live stats for some reason, but those are Utica's players so it's definitely tonight's game.  IC up by 6 with 14+ to go.

    Yeah, something is messed up with the LiveStats application. Earlier, the women were supposedly playing Alfred.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 30, 2007, 09:43:09 PM
    70-59, Bombers, 5 minutes left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on November 30, 2007, 09:56:55 PM
    Fisher pulls out a big conference opener beatin RIT 84-80....Big game from Beigal with 17 and 16 and Baltz gets 19.  Kenny Gethers did all he could in defeat finishing with 29 and 12.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 30, 2007, 10:04:35 PM
    Good start for the Bombers, dispatching Utica by a score of 81-70. Good games for both the top PG's in the league. Stats of importance:

    UTICA

    James McClendon-- 18 pts, 7reb
    Justin Maxwell--14 pts
    Doug Herring-- 18 pts, 6 reb, 3 asst

    ITHACA

    Sean Burton-- 19pts, 9 asst, 6 reb
    Sean Leahy-- 13 pts, 7 reb
    Jeff Bostic-- 14 pts, 11 reb
    Dom Scanlon-- 16 pts

    Nice debut by Bostic and good to get a win over a team that has been getting the better of Ithaca over the last couple seasons.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 01, 2007, 12:24:58 AM
    Ben Light Gymnasium was rocking tonight. Biggest crowd i have seen in the last two years. The game was very tight in the first half. Bombers got a big boost of the bench from Jeff Bostic, Brendan Rogers and Louis Kail. Ithaca was getting hurt on the offensive glass in the first half and also killing themselves with turnovers. Tom Brown and Sean Burton couldn't handle the inbounds pass after a made basket, which on my count lead to four turnovers.

    Second half was a different story, Ithaca got up by nine early and was in control for most of the second half. Very balanced scoring but the team didn't perform well on offense, yet unlike in the past couple years, the team was able to still make plays and find a way to win instead of find a way to lose a clsoe game at home, which happened multiple times last year. Watch out for the games when Ithaca is flowing on offense they can run any team out of the gym.

    It seems like every bombers fan was watching livestats and not the webcast on empire8tv. Bostic looked great for only playing basketball for a week. 1 two handed dunk in the half court set and two fast break jams that were nice.  Bostic clearly changed the game. There was one point when Utica was going to make a run and Herring came down the court got the ball and it looked like he was going to go for a dunk, he saw Bostic pulled up for an 6 foot bank shot and missed. Bostic also came out of no where to block a three point attempt. One stat not seen in the stat book were all the passes he deflected or tipped when Ithaca went into a zone defense.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on December 01, 2007, 10:03:14 AM
    [It seems like every bombers fan was watching livestats and not the webcast on empire8tv]
    Depending on your hardware / software setup I'm sure the quality varies, but I was happy with the webcast.  The announcers had done their homework, had the stats and their chatter wasn't terribly annoying.

    Seeing the game as a Utica fan, I was encouraged.  Obviously the team has a ways to go, but they're young and they've (essentially) never played together.  Knowing a little about the team, they've got a big upside - the talent is there to play with anyone but the rhythm, consistency on defense and rotation hasn't been found yet.  For now, we'll have to take progress.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 01, 2007, 10:16:56 AM
    That was a huge win last night for Fisher. If they would have lost that game, and gone 0-3 heading to Stevens, that could have been a recipe for a disastrous season.

    I am glad to see they found a way to pull out a close game down the stretch, unlike the first two games. Hopefullly Fisher can find a way to beat Stevens, and they are back on their way to another great season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 01, 2007, 11:10:41 AM
    Glad to see that there was a good crowd at the ithaca men's game and not just the women's, with a school that size and with football attendance being good, they should get crowds for bball too, the past has been a disspointment. 

    Ithaca making a good case that they will be as good as predicted this year with the big win.  Huge win for Fisher getting a win against a descent (not as good as we thought) RIT team.  I had  a feeling Kevin Young for RIT was going to be good this year, he had a great build and skills for his size as a freshman last year. 

    Stevens wins by 25 against a bad alfred team, still a tough measuring stick, nevertheless came through and did what was expected.  Im going to have to go with Stevens tomorrow at Home versus Fisher. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 01, 2007, 11:27:04 AM
    Nice win boys.

    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 01, 2007, 12:24:58 AMIt seems like every bombers fan was watching livestats and not the webcast on empire8tv.

    Bomber games on tv?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 01, 2007, 01:56:38 PM
    UC is really feeling not having their PF in the lineup. Whyte has turned into such a force inside that this looks like a tale of two teams from when he was playing (scrimmages) to when he was out. With him out, UC basically has small forwards playing the 4 and 5 every time McClendon leaves the game. Those were the times when Ithaca took advantage last night. It will be a big boost for UC when he is finally back. I feel bad for the guy because he worked so hard in the offseason, and you can tell just by looking at him.

    The team is young, and they played hard despite a lot of guys playing out of position and a lot of the young guys getting their first significant minutes in a league game on the road against a decent team. I suspect you will see a totally different Utica team in the second half of the season. They grew last night and got a taste of what league play is like.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 01, 2007, 02:00:51 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 01, 2007, 11:27:04 AM
    Nice win boys.

    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 01, 2007, 12:24:58 AMIt seems like every bombers fan was watching livestats and not the webcast on empire8tv.

    Bomber games on tv?

    Yeah, last night's game was on ICTV so they had the Stretch Internet thing going on. I would have watched if I didn't have to study for finals. Instead, listened on the radio. The broadcasters were pretty good, save the minor slip-up in the first half where one of them said that Burton got "molested" on a play.

    Also, this is the first year with Empire 8 TV. I don't know if last night's game was on Empire 8 TV, though. I pasted the link below for that. They show a lot of games for $2/each. Not a bad deal when you think about it. The Fisher/Stevens game is on tomorrow and Ithaca/Stevens will be broadcast next Sunday, too. I will probably purchase a couple games throughout the season. I mean, it's $2. Solid deal.

    http://www.empire8.tv/

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 01, 2007, 04:47:54 PM
    wow I didn't know that, that is great.  I'd love to check the Stevens team out.

    UCgrad, I havn't seen Utica but from the sounds of it, I'd have to agree with you on that one.  They will be much improved come 2nd semester and with their full team.  However, everyteam will grow much more by then, we'll see if Utica grows enough to close the game to make it in the top 4. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 01, 2007, 05:28:23 PM
    Ithaca routs previously undefeated Hartwick, 85-46. Burton with 23 to lead. This one was out of reach fairly early.

    Combined score of the men's and women's games in Ithaca today:

    Ithaca  186
    Hartwick  85

    Ouch.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 01, 2007, 06:14:12 PM
    Ithaca played very well on both sides of the ball tonight, very fun to watch. First half was the greatest half of basketball i have seen Ithaca ever play. Dominated both sides of the ball and had control of the game the entire time, great job taking Hartwick's CoCo out of the game. He has to hate playing Ithaca they have always had someone glued to him the entire game and Ruffrage did another amazing job today with that. Also would liek to note for those who didn't see the game, one of Sean Burton's threes was from at least 30 feet out. Cant really single anyone out for a great game because they played as a team and really put Hartwick away early.

    Bombers get the start they needed in league play. 2-0 in the league when they head down to play Stevens next weekend. Very interested to hear about the Fisher and Stevens game tomorrow. Very weird that the league will have Ithaca finish their season series with Utica and Hartwick on Jan. 5th before Ithaca has taken on anyone else with the exception of Stevens.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 01, 2007, 07:23:27 PM
    So, wait a sec, are we.....good?  At basketball?  Did Dane Fischer and Tyler Schulz sneak back onto campus?  I am both confused and pleased by this new development.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 01, 2007, 08:57:13 PM
    Utica 58
    Elmira 56

    what the hell, Utica may be much weaker then we think.

    Sounds like Ithaca layed it on hartwick, 40 pt win.  Only good teams get wins like that, subpar oppenent or not.  I think Ithaca has taken a big step into making a case they could be an NCAA tourny team this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 01, 2007, 09:25:35 PM
    Utica is much weaker than UCgrad implies. Having that one player Whyte would not have been a major difference in the Ithaca game. McClendon played better than normal anyways versus Ithaca. They lost a lot with Collier, Lighthall and Bryant and Utica will struggle all season no matter who plays the four.

    When it is all set and done Burton and Bostic will be remembered for being just as good or better than Fischer and Schulz. I never saw Fischer play but heard many great things about him. I have seen Ty Schulz play. Bostic is very similar, both can hit a 17 footer, both can go inside and out. Bostic is more athletic than Schulz and thats not a knock on Schulz because he was very athletic just not freskishly athletic like Bostic.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 01, 2007, 09:34:53 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 01, 2007, 09:25:35 PM
    Utica is much weaker than UCgrad implies. Having that one player Whyte would not have been a major difference in the Ithaca game. McClendon played better than normal anyways versus Ithaca. They lost a lot with Collier, Lighthall and Bryant and Utica will struggle all season no matter who plays the four.

    When it is all set and done Burton and Bostic will be remembered for being just as good or better than Fischer and Schulz. I never saw Fischer play but heard many great things about him. I have seen Ty Schulz play. Bostic is very similar, both can hit a 17 footer, both can go inside and out. Bostic is more athletic than Schulz and thats not a knock on Schulz because he was very athletic just not freskishly athletic like Bostic.


    Yes, the guy who has never seen the team play with Whyte has given his amazing analysis.

    The biggest body on the court (6'7 230), teams best rebounder, and one of its toughest defenders would not have made a difference in a game where Ithaca needed 30 FT attempts, mostly off rebounds, to beat a short handed UC team that was missing one if it's best players. McClendon played better than normal? Based on what? He played well, but didn't even get to his season averages. Please know what you are talking about before posting wishful thinking as fact.


    For reference, Potsdam beat Ithaca, and UC smacked Potsdam in their scrimmage.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 01, 2007, 10:16:43 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 01, 2007, 09:34:53 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 01, 2007, 09:25:35 PM

    For reference, Potsdam beat Ithaca, and UC smacked Potsdam in their scrimmage.

    Not trying to start anything, but not sure how representative of anything that IC/Potsdam game was. Goes without saying Ithaca is a completely different team with Bostic playing and he wasn't playing. I feel fairly confident that the result would be different if they played again and Ithaca had its full arsenal of players.

    Utica just has to keep its head above water while their young players develop and get chemistry playing with each other. It's always a rollercoaster when you have young players. I'm not going to pass judgment on Whyte because I've never seen him, nor have I seen his numbers against D3 competition.

    I tuned in for a bit of today's game. Who knew how hi-tech ICTV would get. They had cameras in the backboard!! A campus TV station! I can't stop using exclamations!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on December 01, 2007, 11:27:21 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 01, 2007, 09:25:35 PM
    Utica is much weaker than UCgrad implies. Having that one player Whyte would not have been a major difference in the Ithaca game.

    Quote
    Not trying to start anything, but not sure how representative of anything that IC/Potsdam game was. Goes without saying Ithaca is a completely different team with Bostic playing and he wasn't playing.

    Sorry Bomber, just couldn't pass up the obvious contradiction.  To be fair, Bostic is a proven impact player.  Whyte isn't proven.   He'll be back playing soon and we'll see what happens.  An athletic big is always helpful, but the challenge for UC is building a team out of a group of talented individuals.  As Bomber says - chemistry.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 02, 2007, 01:12:27 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on December 01, 2007, 11:27:21 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 01, 2007, 09:25:35 PM
    Utica is much weaker than UCgrad implies. Having that one player Whyte would not have been a major difference in the Ithaca game.

    Quote
    Not trying to start anything, but not sure how representative of anything that IC/Potsdam game was. Goes without saying Ithaca is a completely different team with Bostic playing and he wasn't playing.

    Sorry Bomber, just couldn't pass up the obvious contradiction.  To be fair, Bostic is a proven impact player.  Whyte isn't proven.   He'll be back playing soon and we'll see what happens.  An athletic big is always helpful, but the challenge for UC is building a team out of a group of talented individuals.  As Bomber says - chemistry.

    Understandable. But I'm not so sure I contradicted bombersquadron. I was simply saying that the absence of Bostic hurt Ithaca against Potsdam. I think most would agree that it did. BS was saying that the absence of Whyte didn't make a difference in the IC/UC game. Again, I refuse to pass judgment on that because I know zero about Whyte. However, I think most of us can agree that sometimes the absent player will have a huge impact on the game, sometimes a minimal impact, or even no impact at all. Just depends on the player, I guess.

    More than any other team, I think the early-season conference play is going to hurt Utica. Of the competitors, they're the team that needs time to find themselves the most. They probably would have been better off under the usual conference schedule. With that said, they should still be right in the mix for an E8 Tourney spot. I must admit, though, I am a little bit surprised by how close today's game vs Elmira was. The Pios still had Herring, Goodman, Patterson, McClendon playing and that should be more than enough against anemic Elmira.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on December 02, 2007, 06:08:16 AM
    UC Grad

    I was at the Potsdam-UC Scrimmage.  Smacked is a bit strong.  When the regulars played, UC won the first 1/2, by about 12, but it was tied with 4 mins to go, then Potsdam started to foul to for UC to make free throws.

    After Whyte got hurt, Potsdam did win the second 20 minute session amongst the regulars by 4.

    The smacking took place in the two 10 minute sessions with the rooks.  Potsdam was missing a couple of players for the usual reasons, and had to play some people out of position.

    I would say Ithaca, with Bostic, will challenge for the e8 title this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 02, 2007, 09:07:44 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 02, 2007, 01:12:27 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on December 01, 2007, 11:27:21 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 01, 2007, 09:25:35 PM
    Utica is much weaker than UCgrad implies. Having that one player Whyte would not have been a major difference in the Ithaca game.

    Quote
    Not trying to start anything, but not sure how representative of anything that IC/Potsdam game was. Goes without saying Ithaca is a completely different team with Bostic playing and he wasn't playing.

    Sorry Bomber, just couldn't pass up the obvious contradiction.  To be fair, Bostic is a proven impact player.  Whyte isn't proven.   He'll be back playing soon and we'll see what happens.  An athletic big is always helpful, but the challenge for UC is building a team out of a group of talented individuals.  As Bomber says - chemistry.

    Understandable. But I'm not so sure I contradicted bombersquadron. I was simply saying that the absence of Bostic hurt Ithaca against Potsdam. I think most would agree that it did. BS was saying that the absence of Whyte didn't make a difference in the IC/UC game. Again, I refuse to pass judgment on that because I know zero about Whyte. However, I think most of us can agree that sometimes the absent player will have a huge impact on the game, sometimes a minimal impact, or even no impact at all. Just depends on the player, I guess.

    More than any other team, I think the early-season conference play is going to hurt Utica. Of the competitors, they're the team that needs time to find themselves the most. They probably would have been better off under the usual conference schedule. With that said, they should still be right in the mix for an E8 Tourney spot. I must admit, though, I am a little bit surprised by how close today's game vs Elmira was. The Pios still had Herring, Goodman, Patterson, McClendon playing and that should be more than enough against anemic Elmira.

    If you look back over the last 4 or 5 seasons, UC seems to always only win by a few points AT Elmira, no matter how good the team is. They then blow them out at Utica. Elmira isn't scared of anybody, which may be the result of playing teams like Colgate last season. IIRC, they beat some teams late last season that nobody thought they could.

    You also need to remember that because of their success the last few years, Utica and Fisher are the two teams that have targets on their backs. They always get the best effort from everybody. A team mostly full of young players and transfers doesn't know what that is like. Hopefully the first league weekend was enough to show them that they are going to need to bring it every night.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 02, 2007, 09:16:18 AM
    Quote from: thebear on December 02, 2007, 06:08:16 AM
    UC Grad

    I was at the Potsdam-UC Scrimmage.  Smacked is a bit strong.  When the regulars played, UC won the first 1/2, by about 12, but it was tied with 4 mins to go, then Potsdam started to foul to for UC to make free throws.

    After Whyte got hurt, Potsdam did win the second 20 minute session amongst the regulars by 4.

    The smacking took place in the two 10 minute sessions with the rooks.  Potsdam was missing a couple of players for the usual reasons, and had to play some people out of position.

    I would say Ithaca, with Bostic, will challenge for the e8 title this year.


    I have to admit, I was baiting. Waiting for the "but Bostic didn't play".

    Ithaca will challenge. They, like a lot of the new players at UC, need to learn how to win. There were many points late in the Ithaca UC game that Ithaca players took shots that were ill advised and happened to make them. When you are up 7 with about 4 minutes to play, taking 35 foot jumpers with 27 seconds on the shot clock is not knowing how to win. It worked out for them on that night, but that is more of the exception than the rule.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bball05 on December 02, 2007, 01:00:41 PM
    i just looked at uticas page nd it said munch hit the game winner. everytime i look at the boxscores of the game he never takes more than 2 shots nd he hit the game winner?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 02, 2007, 01:45:04 PM
    UC Grad, I personally don't think Whyte would have made much of a difference in the game Friday night. He is probably much improved from last season, he was behind good players but he didn't do anything special when he played. I don't think he would have made such a drastic impact to take over a game in which Ithaca controlled in the second half. As point taken for the bear's post, it seems UC didn't smack Potsdam and on top of that was a scrimmage. Ithaca blew away SunyIT in a scrimmage by forty points, but that has no relevance to the Ithaca- Utica game.

    After seeing Friday's game I think Utica is much weaker than in years past and will have to rebuild this season and won't have the ability to reload. With the overall strength of the league this year I think Utica will have a very tough time in league play. Hopefully both teams are at full strength in early Jan and they can go out and play each other with everyone healthy. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 02, 2007, 04:15:54 PM
    Quote from: bball05 on December 02, 2007, 01:00:41 PM
    i just looked at uticas page nd it said munch hit the game winner. everytime i look at the boxscores of the game he never takes more than 2 shots nd he hit the game winner?

    A little known fact about Munch is that he can score. He just focuses on his role.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on December 02, 2007, 04:56:15 PM
    Fisher down BIG at Stevens....49-28 OUCH!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 02, 2007, 06:12:49 PM
    I think we're all being given our answer about Stevens today and we're all playing for second place.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on December 02, 2007, 06:20:06 PM
    Fisher gets dismantled by Stevens 80-65 the score doesnt indicate how much of a blowout the game was.  Stevens will win this conference. Fisher continues to search for answeers and is now 1-3.  Ozell looks like he should get 25+ minutes a game, and start...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 02, 2007, 08:07:07 PM
    Just got home from the Stevens/Fisher "game".  The post ahead of me was right, this game was over after the first 5 minutes.  Stevens went up something like 17-7 and cruised from there.  At one point in the second half they were up 27 and were up 21 until the final minute of the game.

    Key Notes:

    Stevens is WAY too athletic for Fisher.  A completely healthy Fisher team still isn't athletic enough to stay in front of Gray, Farid, or Baker.  It was so bad that Fisher actually voluntarily had to go zone...against a team that went 7-14 from 3 in the first half.

    The missing Big absolutely doomed SJF today.  Tim Williams went for 18 and 7 easily, and manhandled the post down low.  Beigl, in what I'm hearing is typical fashion, fouled his way on to the bench trying to guard him.  The kid is a player and does this despite not getting as many touches as he really should.

    Ozell Franklin should start for Fisher.  This is my first time seeing them play and I've seen some of the other guards, but he is clearly their best athlete and one of their better all around players.  I know he's a freshman and it's early, but you can see that he should be on the floor from the tip.  Played very well today.


    What's the deal with Baltz?  No foul trouble and only played 20 minutes.  Granted his defense wasn't all that great in the man to man, but neither was anyone else's.  I think that was a coach's mistake, especially since they ended up sitting in zone most of the 2nd half anyway.

    Fisher was able to score easy layups on from baseline cuts when they executed.  Unfortunately this wasn't very frequent, but may serve as a bit of a warning flag to the Stevens team. 

    Stevens is not a very deep team.  I saw Baker and the kid Higgins come in, plus the two bigs, but none of them play a lot.  Doesn't seem like they have a backup behind Greco, as Gray or Baker shared ballhandling duties when he wasn't in. 



    I probably won't see Stevens again until February.  Hoping to get to the Ithaca game because I think that'll be the game of the 2 teams that will meet to decide the conference come March, but I may be away on business.  If you have questions about the game leave them here and I'll try to answer.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on December 02, 2007, 09:06:35 PM
    Thanks for the info cyclone....A couple questions to ask ya.  What were the matchups?  Who started on who defensively for both teams?  I see that a few fisher guys that see usual minutes only get 11 or fewer.  I am wondering if this is Kornaker sittin most of his older guys and getting his younger guys more experience.  Overall after seeing the score early on I was shocked seeing Fisher down 51-28.  I would have loved to see last years teams battle it out.  With McSweeney and Mueller in the lineup for Fisher and the Williams kid healthy last year.  Both teams last year went to the Sweet 16 so would be an interesting outcome from last years teams....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 02, 2007, 09:17:17 PM
    If I remember correctly

    Williams - Beigl
    Newman - Passalacqua
    Baltz - Gray
    Bearden - Farid
    Coyne - Greco



    Both teams pretty much played these matchups.  I'm not sure what Kornaker was doing.  I think he was just looking for a spark going with the bench guys.  Stevens jumped on them early so I think it was a situation where he was trying to get something outta anybody.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 03, 2007, 08:03:21 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 02, 2007, 09:16:18 AMWhen you are up 7 with about 4 minutes to play, taking 35 foot jumpers with 27 seconds on the shot clock is not knowing how to win.

    Based on what?  Basketball cliches propogated by unimaginative coaches that think they are Norman Dale?  There is no way to make a blanket statement like that. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on December 03, 2007, 04:11:45 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 02, 2007, 09:16:18 AM
    Ithaca will challenge. They, like a lot of the new players at UC, need to learn how to win. There were many points late in the Ithaca UC game that Ithaca players took shots that were ill advised and happened to make them. When you are up 7 with about 4 minutes to play, taking 35 foot jumpers with 27 seconds on the shot clock is not knowing how to win. It worked out for them on that night, but that is more of the exception than the rule.

    Can you please explain to me how this means anything other than "need to learn how to play basketball better"?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on December 03, 2007, 08:26:32 PM
    Quote from: maxpower on December 03, 2007, 04:11:45 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 02, 2007, 09:16:18 AM
    need to learn how to win.

    Can you please explain to me how this means anything other than "need to learn how to play basketball better"?

    I'm not sure why UCGrad's statement is being questioned.  Is it unusual to discuss winning traits - being tough, aware, making good decisions under pressure etc. separately from atheletic skills and sport competence?   Not in my experience.

    And Jose, if wanting your player to take that 35 footer at 7 seconds and not 27 qualifies as unimaginative I'm afraid you'll have trouble finding an imaginative coach.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bball05 on December 03, 2007, 08:35:14 PM
    any1 got a score on the utica game?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 03, 2007, 09:15:05 PM
    Quote from: bball05 on December 03, 2007, 08:35:14 PM
    any1 got a score on the utica game?

    I had car problems. Couldn't make the game.

    According to this site however, UC won 77-53.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 03, 2007, 09:15:35 PM
    Concerning the Stevens-SJFC game...is Stevens THAT good, or is Fisher THAT bad?? (or a combo of both)

    Also, I think an important thing that hasn't been mentioned is the fact that Stevens is new to the conference (no duh) but Stevens has no rivals, nobody to really hate and I wonder how their student/fan-base will react to that, or how their fan-base really is. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 03, 2007, 09:15:53 PM
    Quote from: maxpower on December 03, 2007, 04:11:45 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 02, 2007, 09:16:18 AM
    Ithaca will challenge. They, like a lot of the new players at UC, need to learn how to win. There were many points late in the Ithaca UC game that Ithaca players took shots that were ill advised and happened to make them. When you are up 7 with about 4 minutes to play, taking 35 foot jumpers with 27 seconds on the shot clock is not knowing how to win. It worked out for them on that night, but that is more of the exception than the rule.

    Can you please explain to me how this means anything other than "need to learn how to play basketball better"?

    If you don't know what I mean by knowing how to win, you don't know how to win.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 03, 2007, 09:29:59 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on December 03, 2007, 09:15:35 PM
    Concerning the Stevens-SJFC game...is Stevens THAT good, or is Fisher THAT bad?? (or a combo of both)

    Also, I think an important thing that hasn't been mentioned is the fact that Stevens is new to the conference (no duh) but Stevens has no rivals, nobody to really hate and I wonder how their student/fan-base will react to that, or how their fan-base really is. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

    They might hate Munch, since he used to go there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 04, 2007, 12:31:11 AM
    UC Grad, no one hates Munch, some people have respect for him because he loves to play D. He's not good enough to be hated. He holds and flops on defense and turns the ball over and is a nonfactor on offense. He hit a game winning shot in which the opposing coach was most likely telling his team to double off of Munch on to Herring. He cannot score, he never has and never will, he also has a whopping 6 points in 5 games. No one hates him or utica, people are simply stating the facts, stop being extremely bias about how good utica is. they will NOT make the empire8 tourney.

    Another big game for Ithaca tomorrow as rival Cortland heads to town. Cortland lost a lot from last year but looks to be off to a good start. Should be a good game in my opinion. Hopefully Ithaca is not looking past Cortland to their match-up with Stevens this weekend.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 12:42:41 AM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 04, 2007, 12:31:11 AM
    UC Grad, no one hates Munch, some people have respect for him because he loves to play D. He's not good enough to be hated. He holds and flops on defense and turns the ball over and is a nonfactor on offense. He hit a game winning shot in which the opposing coach was most likely telling his team to double off of Munch on to Herring. He cannot score, he never has and never will, he also has a whopping 6 points in 5 games. No one hates him or utica, people are simply stating the facts, stop being extremely bias about how good utica is. they will NOT make the empire8 tourney.

    Another big game for Ithaca tomorrow as rival Cortland heads to town. Cortland lost a lot from last year but looks to be off to a good start. Should be a good game in my opinion. Hopefully Ithaca is not looking past Cortland to their match-up with Stevens this weekend.

    Once again, the guy that knows nothing of Munch other than what he has seen in a game or two pretends he knows more about him than someone that knows him personally.

    Dude dropped 15-20 a game in High School. He can score if he needs to. He just happens to be the best defensive player in the conference, and possibly the region. That is what he focuses on.

    You seem to have an inferiority complex. Get sick of finishing 4th every year? A simple statement that he might catch some razz from Stevens since he transfered in from there is not "talking about how good" they are. But now that you mention it, he does have more NCAA tourney experience than every player on Ithaca combined. And for kicks, he was 3 of 4 from the floor tonight for 6 points in 17 minutes. He had 1 turnover and 5 steals. Hardly the liability you like to pretend he is.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 04, 2007, 01:06:26 AM
    To e8bballfan....you gotta realize tho that most of the people in the stands for the Stevens basketball games are probably other athletes so I'd assume that the athletes from the fall sports (field hockey, soccer, etc) that have already gone through their e8 seasons have some teams that they'll get after.  Crowd was pretty good for the Fisher game...from what I've heard Stevens hasn't attracted a lot of fans to begin with so it's not like there's a distinct home court advantage anyway (except that they rarely lose at home).



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 01:38:59 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 12:42:41 AM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 04, 2007, 12:31:11 AM
    UC Grad, no one hates Munch, some people have respect for him because he loves to play D. He's not good enough to be hated. He holds and flops on defense and turns the ball over and is a nonfactor on offense. He hit a game winning shot in which the opposing coach was most likely telling his team to double off of Munch on to Herring. He cannot score, he never has and never will, he also has a whopping 6 points in 5 games. No one hates him or utica, people are simply stating the facts, stop being extremely bias about how good utica is. they will NOT make the empire8 tourney.

    Another big game for Ithaca tomorrow as rival Cortland heads to town. Cortland lost a lot from last year but looks to be off to a good start. Should be a good game in my opinion. Hopefully Ithaca is not looking past Cortland to their match-up with Stevens this weekend.

    Once again, the guy that knows nothing of Munch other than what he has seen in a game or two pretends he knows more about him than someone that knows him personally.

    Dude dropped 15-20 a game in High School. He can score if he needs to. He just happens to be the best defensive player in the conference, and possibly the region. That is what he focuses on.

    You seem to have an inferiority complex. Get sick of finishing 4th every year? A simple statement that he might catch some razz from Stevens since he transfered in from there is not "talking about how good" they are. But now that you mention it, he does have more NCAA tourney experience than every player on Ithaca combined. And for kicks, he was 3 of 4 from the floor tonight for 6 points in 17 minutes. He had 1 turnover and 5 steals. Hardly the liability you like to pretend he is.


    1) "Get sick of finishing 4th every year?" Third, actually. RIT usually has 4th on lockdown. Get your facts straight.

    2) "But know that you mention it, he does have more NCAA tourney experience than every player on Ithaca combined." And about half the basketball talent of most of Ithaca's starters.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 07:32:12 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 01:38:59 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 12:42:41 AM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 04, 2007, 12:31:11 AM
    UC Grad, no one hates Munch, some people have respect for him because he loves to play D. He's not good enough to be hated. He holds and flops on defense and turns the ball over and is a nonfactor on offense. He hit a game winning shot in which the opposing coach was most likely telling his team to double off of Munch on to Herring. He cannot score, he never has and never will, he also has a whopping 6 points in 5 games. No one hates him or utica, people are simply stating the facts, stop being extremely bias about how good utica is. they will NOT make the empire8 tourney.

    Another big game for Ithaca tomorrow as rival Cortland heads to town. Cortland lost a lot from last year but looks to be off to a good start. Should be a good game in my opinion. Hopefully Ithaca is not looking past Cortland to their match-up with Stevens this weekend.

    Once again, the guy that knows nothing of Munch other than what he has seen in a game or two pretends he knows more about him than someone that knows him personally.

    Dude dropped 15-20 a game in High School. He can score if he needs to. He just happens to be the best defensive player in the conference, and possibly the region. That is what he focuses on.

    You seem to have an inferiority complex. Get sick of finishing 4th every year? A simple statement that he might catch some razz from Stevens since he transfered in from there is not "talking about how good" they are. But now that you mention it, he does have more NCAA tourney experience than every player on Ithaca combined. And for kicks, he was 3 of 4 from the floor tonight for 6 points in 17 minutes. He had 1 turnover and 5 steals. Hardly the liability you like to pretend he is.


    1) "Get sick of finishing 4th every year?" Third, actually. RIT usually has 4th on lockdown. Get your facts straight.

    2) "But know that you mention it, he does have more NCAA tourney experience than every player on Ithaca combined." And about half the basketball talent of most of Ithaca's starters.

    I guess that is a compliment that he has as much or more talent than some of the Ithaca starters, as he comes off the bench for UC.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 04, 2007, 08:59:09 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on December 03, 2007, 08:26:32 PMI'm not sure why UCGrad's statement is being questioned.  Is it unusual to discuss winning traits - being tough, aware, making good decisions under pressure etc. separately from atheletic skills and sport competence?   Not in my experience.

    It is not unusual.  That doesn't make it relevant.  With the exception of decisionmaking ability under pressure, everything else is just cliche used to fill a space where a coach can't think of an objective evaluation point.  "He has a lot of heart."  "We are going to out tough them."  etc.  That is unimaginative cliche in the same way "not knowing how to win" is unimaginative cliche. 

    I know this because the statement that Ithaca "does not know how to win" was made about a game that Ithaca won.  How interesting.  This is akin to saying "After watching you count to 10 it is clear to me that you do not know how to count to ten."

    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 12:42:41 AMYou seem to have an inferiority complex. Get sick of finishing 4th every year?

    Not for nothing...Empire 8 Titles:  Ithaca 1
                                                         Utica 0

    So I guess the question really is, get sick of looking at that hole in your trophy case your good teams could have filled?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 04, 2007, 10:15:01 AM
    This isn't my "fight" if you will, but the statement "needs to learn how to win" can be made about a game you win.  I've seen it before where a team is up 30, lets a team come all the way back to within 1(or take the lead) and then pulls it out in the win.  Sure, they won, but the statement being made is that the game shouldn't have been close...it speaks more to the decision making than the actually "winning".


    To use your own analogy, it's not saying "you don't know how to count to 10."  It's saying, "Instead of counting to 10 1,2,3,4....you went 1,2,2.5,3,3.5,4...."  Sure, you'll get to 10, but you aren't doing it in the best manner.



    I didn't see the game, but from a statement that they are up 7 shooting 35 footers with 4 minutes to go, I'd assume his point is that at that point there is no reason to rush the shot clock.  Now, if these are wide open jumpers and that is the style you play then so be it, but this is around the time in the game (coaches "cliche" or not, everyone does this) where most coaches tell their guys to work some clock, get it in to the big, etc etc.  I didn't see the game and don't know enough about this particular Ithaca team to know if that was the case, but I think that would be why he says they need to learn how to win.  Just because you pulled it out this game doesn't mean it'll happen the next.  You can study the morning of a test and get a 90 the first time, but that doesn't mean you don't still need to learn better studying methods, because next time you might not do as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 11:39:12 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 07:32:12 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 01:38:59 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 12:42:41 AM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 04, 2007, 12:31:11 AM
    UC Grad, no one hates Munch, some people have respect for him because he loves to play D. He's not good enough to be hated. He holds and flops on defense and turns the ball over and is a nonfactor on offense. He hit a game winning shot in which the opposing coach was most likely telling his team to double off of Munch on to Herring. He cannot score, he never has and never will, he also has a whopping 6 points in 5 games. No one hates him or utica, people are simply stating the facts, stop being extremely bias about how good utica is. they will NOT make the empire8 tourney.

    Another big game for Ithaca tomorrow as rival Cortland heads to town. Cortland lost a lot from last year but looks to be off to a good start. Should be a good game in my opinion. Hopefully Ithaca is not looking past Cortland to their match-up with Stevens this weekend.

    Once again, the guy that knows nothing of Munch other than what he has seen in a game or two pretends he knows more about him than someone that knows him personally.

    Dude dropped 15-20 a game in High School. He can score if he needs to. He just happens to be the best defensive player in the conference, and possibly the region. That is what he focuses on.

    You seem to have an inferiority complex. Get sick of finishing 4th every year? A simple statement that he might catch some razz from Stevens since he transfered in from there is not "talking about how good" they are. But now that you mention it, he does have more NCAA tourney experience than every player on Ithaca combined. And for kicks, he was 3 of 4 from the floor tonight for 6 points in 17 minutes. He had 1 turnover and 5 steals. Hardly the liability you like to pretend he is.


    1) "Get sick of finishing 4th every year?" Third, actually. RIT usually has 4th on lockdown. Get your facts straight.

    2) "But know that you mention it, he does have more NCAA tourney experience than every player on Ithaca combined." And about half the basketball talent of most of Ithaca's starters.

    I guess that is a compliment that he has as much or more talent than some of the Ithaca starters, as he comes off the bench for UC.

    He may be better than Ruffrage who, by all accounts, is about our 7th best player but still starts. Best five guys don't always start. More important who finishes the game, not starts.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on December 04, 2007, 12:14:09 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on November 28, 2007, 01:26:59 PM
    Quote from: tigerfan2 on November 28, 2007, 10:03:53 AM
    Carson went for 17pts despite is 3-11 performance from the FT line. Nice to see he's back to his old form there.

    Looks like McVean is doing what he usually does, which is play a ton of different guys. 9 players over 10+ minutes (although this is less than normal for him) with only Carson playing more than 26 minutes. Pretty balanced as it usually is with RIT as 4 players score in double figures and S. Young chipping in with 9pts.

    Hopefully RIT can finally get over the hump vs. Fisher this year, they typically play them close and find a way to lose late.

    TF2, I was going to make the joke last night that it looked like Carson is filling Bacon's shoes beautifully, right down to the fact that they put up the same type of numbers while both being utterly awful at the FT line. I figured that I'd save it for you and Bamm. Is this kid's form that bad? It's been the subject of a few conversations on here. I'm interested to see it.

    I've put my revised conference predictions below. Disclaimer: Fisher fans, I'm not trying to pile on. It just seems like this season is turning into the perfect storm for all the other teams with respect to how they match up with Fisher. The Cards seem a little "down" this year, while most of the other teams seem primed to have good conference seasons. With that said, I'm still of the opinion that Fisher can make the E8 Tourney if their young guys can step up a little more and Smalt can give them as big of a lift as FD thinks he can (not a knock). The hole may be too deep, though, by the time he gets back (I have no knowledge re: his expected return...Fisher guys, know anything?).

    1) Stevens (14-2)
    T-2) Ithaca (11-5)
    T-2) RIT (11-5)
    4) Nazareth (10-6)
    T-5) Utica (9-7)
    T-5) Fisher (9-7)
    7) Hartwick (7-9)
    8 ) Alfred (2-14)
    9) Elmira (0-16)

    So based on these predictions, should Pep expect that the Saxons will beat Elmira this season?

    AU, to use the inverse of a sports cliche, is once again rebuilding, not reloading.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 04, 2007, 12:28:25 PM
    haha
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 04, 2007, 12:37:33 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on December 04, 2007, 12:14:09 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on November 28, 2007, 01:26:59 PM
    Quote from: tigerfan2 on November 28, 2007, 10:03:53 AM
    Carson went for 17pts despite is 3-11 performance from the FT line. Nice to see he's back to his old form there.

    Looks like McVean is doing what he usually does, which is play a ton of different guys. 9 players over 10+ minutes (although this is less than normal for him) with only Carson playing more than 26 minutes. Pretty balanced as it usually is with RIT as 4 players score in double figures and S. Young chipping in with 9pts.

    Hopefully RIT can finally get over the hump vs. Fisher this year, they typically play them close and find a way to lose late.

    TF2, I was going to make the joke last night that it looked like Carson is filling Bacon's shoes beautifully, right down to the fact that they put up the same type of numbers while both being utterly awful at the FT line. I figured that I'd save it for you and Bamm. Is this kid's form that bad? It's been the subject of a few conversations on here. I'm interested to see it.

    I've put my revised conference predictions below. Disclaimer: Fisher fans, I'm not trying to pile on. It just seems like this season is turning into the perfect storm for all the other teams with respect to how they match up with Fisher. The Cards seem a little "down" this year, while most of the other teams seem primed to have good conference seasons. With that said, I'm still of the opinion that Fisher can make the E8 Tourney if their young guys can step up a little more and Smalt can give them as big of a lift as FD thinks he can (not a knock). The hole may be too deep, though, by the time he gets back (I have no knowledge re: his expected return...Fisher guys, know anything?).

    1) Stevens (14-2)
    T-2) Ithaca (11-5)
    T-2) RIT (11-5)
    4) Nazareth (10-6)
    T-5) Utica (9-7)
    T-5) Fisher (9-7)
    7) Hartwick (7-9)
    8 ) Alfred (2-14)
    9) Elmira (0-16)

    So based on these predictions, should Pep expect that the Saxons will beat Elmira this season?

    AU, to use the inverse of a sports cliche, is once again rebuilding, not reloading.




    Pep surprised to see you talking hoop on what appears to be a cold wintry day on the AU webcams.  Go get King Alfred a half, scarf, and cup of coffee.  He's gotta be freezing.

    It's 70 and sunny here.
    Title: Radio coverage of tonight's basketball games
    Post by: WICB Sports on December 04, 2007, 02:41:12 PM
    Radio coverage of tonight's Ithaca-Cortland basketball games starts at 6 p.m. on 92 WICB (www.wicb.org) as the Ithaca women's team takes on the 24th-ranked Red Dragons.

    On VIC Radio (www.vicradio.org), coverage of the men's game starts with Bombers Shootaround at 7:40 p.m. followed by tip-off of the men's game at 8 p.m.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 04, 2007, 03:05:13 PM
    UC Grad, its sad to say i do not have inferiority complex and the only thing i am sick of is your love for Munch's non-exist offensive game and his flops on defense. After this post i am done discussing Utica until 2008 when they face Ithaca again.

    I want to bring to light the fact that everyone who moves on to play basketball in college was a scorer in H.S. They are typically their high schools top player, or within the top three as a senior and expected to score double digits in HS every night. So to say Munch could be a scorer in college because he scored 15-20 points a game in H.S. means nothing at the college level. I know guys on the Ithaca team who dropped 25 or more a night in H.S. In fact one player Louis Kail dropped 67 in a game back in high school but that doesn't mean he will be a scorer for Ithaca. He plays his role as does Munch, which is what happens in college when you have 12 -15 good players on a team. Munch's stats vs. Caz last night don't impress me either, Ithaca players such as Will Gaskins or Luke Robinson would come off the bench and have a field day with Caz.

    GB15, i would take Ruff over Munch. I don't think that is being biased towards Ithaca either. Ruff may not be as renowned for his D (which is not based on flopping like Munch) but everyone on Ithaca loves him for the job he does. He might not be as good on the ball as Munch, but he is a great off the ball defender, as is Brendan Rogers and those two combine to hold people, like CoCo from Hartwick or Joe Canori of Naz to 10 points under their season average and change the game. Keeping the ball out of the other players best offensive guard or wing. Ruff also has improved his offensive ability and can knock the three down this year, something Munch cannot do EVER.

    I don't think Munch would break the rotation in Ithaca, he comes off the bench already on a weaker team. UC Grad i know that i don't know Munch and his offensive prowess from his days at West Babylon H.S. but from watching him in his time in Utica, and watching Ithaca's team evolve into the team we have now, i don't see him taking anyone's spot for 10 minutes a game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 04, 2007, 03:10:52 PM
    RIT v. Naz tonight @ Clark Gymnasium. 

    I hope to have a recap and some thoughts, but with this weather nothing is guaranteed.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 06:15:34 PM
    Quote from: bamm on December 04, 2007, 03:10:52 PM
    RIT v. Naz tonight @ Clark Gymnasium. 

    I hope to have a recap and some thoughts, but with this weather nothing is guaranteed.

    Bamm, did you not attend the Fisher/RIT game? I figured you'd be there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 06:41:32 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 04, 2007, 08:59:09 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on December 03, 2007, 08:26:32 PMI'm not sure why UCGrad's statement is being questioned.  Is it unusual to discuss winning traits - being tough, aware, making good decisions under pressure etc. separately from atheletic skills and sport competence?   Not in my experience.

    It is not unusual.  That doesn't make it relevant.  With the exception of decisionmaking ability under pressure, everything else is just cliche used to fill a space where a coach can't think of an objective evaluation point.  "He has a lot of heart."  "We are going to out tough them."  etc.  That is unimaginative cliche in the same way "not knowing how to win" is unimaginative cliche. 
    I know this because the statement that Ithaca "does not know how to win" was made about a game that Ithaca won.  How interesting.  This is akin to saying "After watching you count to 10 it is clear to me that you do not know how to count to ten."

    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 12:42:41 AMYou seem to have an inferiority complex. Get sick of finishing 4th every year?

    Not for nothing...Empire 8 Titles:  Ithaca 1
                                                         Utica 0

    So I guess the question really is, get sick of looking at that hole in your trophy case your good teams could have filled?


    Show me a single coach that thinks 35 foot jumpers with 20 or more seconds on the shot clock with less than 5 to go in a close game is a team that knows how to win, and I will show you a coach who either has already been or will soon be fired. To their credit, even the Ithaca coaches were angry with the shots, as evident by some of the comments they made as they were put up.

    In fact, if UC hadn't missed 3 of the layups they got off the missed shots in those situations, you were looking at a 2 point game with a few minutes to play. Just because they got lucky and pulled it out despite making poor decisions, doesn't mean they did the right thing.

    Great, Ithaca has a championship from before the tournament started. Since then UC or Fisher has eliminated them every year, which is why those two teams get everyones best shot, while Ithaca gets the same old "they are a decent team that you have to watch out for, but if you play your game you should be fine".
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 07:06:22 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 04, 2007, 03:05:13 PM
    UC Grad, its sad to say i do not have inferiority complex and the only thing i am sick of is your love for Munch's non-exist offensive game and his flops on defense. After this post i am done discussing Utica until 2008 when they face Ithaca again.

    I want to bring to light the fact that everyone who moves on to play basketball in college was a scorer in H.S. They are typically their high schools top player, or within the top three as a senior and expected to score double digits in HS every night. So to say Munch could be a scorer in college because he scored 15-20 points a game in H.S. means nothing at the college level. I know guys on the Ithaca team who dropped 25 or more a night in H.S. In fact one player Louis Kail dropped 67 in a game back in high school but that doesn't mean he will be a scorer for Ithaca. He plays his role as does Munch, which is what happens in college when you have 12 -15 good players on a team. Munch's stats vs. Caz last night don't impress me either, Ithaca players such as Will Gaskins or Luke Robinson would come off the bench and have a field day with Caz.

    GB15, i would take Ruff over Munch. I don't think that is being biased towards Ithaca either. Ruff may not be as renowned for his D (which is not based on flopping like Munch) but everyone on Ithaca loves him for the job he does. He might not be as good on the ball as Munch, but he is a great off the ball defender, as is Brendan Rogers and those two combine to hold people, like CoCo from Hartwick or Joe Canori of Naz to 10 points under their season average and change the game. Keeping the ball out of the other players best offensive guard or wing. Ruff also has improved his offensive ability and can knock the three down this year, something Munch cannot do EVER.

    I don't think Munch would break the rotation in Ithaca, he comes off the bench already on a weaker team. UC Grad i know that i don't know Munch and his offensive prowess from his days at West Babylon H.S. but from watching him in his time in Utica, and watching Ithaca's team evolve into the team we have now, i don't see him taking anyone's spot for 10 minutes a game.

    I've heard coaches (some from our conference) say Munch would see minutes on D1 team. I've seen munch shut down the "best" players in our league. I've seen Munch shut down the best player on a WPI team that was supposed to blow us away when we beat them by around 20 on their home court to go to the Sweet 16.

    Is Munch the most talented player? No. Is there a team in the conference he woudln't get significant minutes on? No.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 07:53:24 PM
    I've heard it all now. Despite never being one of the top 20 players in this league, Dennis Munch would see minutes for a D1 team.  Ithaca dominated the 2nd half of that game on Friday night. Enough with the excuses, the better team won. You should focus on hoping your team qualifies for the E8 Tourney. And, with all due respect, I don't think Ithaca circles the games against Utica on their schedule. Utica has ALWAYS played second fiddle to Fisher and I can pretty much guarantee that, if given the choice, the Bombers would rather beat Cortland than Utica in a given year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 08:59:51 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 07:53:24 PM
    I've heard it all now. Despite never being one of the top 20 players in this league, Dennis Munch would see minutes for a D1 team.  Ithaca dominated the 2nd half of that game on Friday night. Enough with the excuses, the better team won. You should focus on hoping your team qualifies for the E8 Tourney. And, with all due respect, I don't think Ithaca circles the games against Utica on their schedule. Utica has ALWAYS played second fiddle to Fisher and I can pretty much guarantee that, if given the choice, the Bombers would rather beat Cortland than Utica in a given year.

    Ahhh I edited it wrong before posting. It was supposed to say that he would make a D1 team just for his D and intensity.

    What excuses are you talking about? I am pretty sure that none have been given.

    If UC is second fiddle, does that mean that Ithaca is 3rd of 4th chair, or do they go straight to flute?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 09:49:15 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 08:59:51 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 07:53:24 PM
    I've heard it all now. Despite never being one of the top 20 players in this league, Dennis Munch would see minutes for a D1 team.  Ithaca dominated the 2nd half of that game on Friday night. Enough with the excuses, the better team won. You should focus on hoping your team qualifies for the E8 Tourney. And, with all due respect, I don't think Ithaca circles the games against Utica on their schedule. Utica has ALWAYS played second fiddle to Fisher and I can pretty much guarantee that, if given the choice, the Bombers would rather beat Cortland than Utica in a given year.

    Ahhh I edited it wrong before posting. It was supposed to say that he would make a D1 team just for his D and intensity.

    What excuses are you talking about? I am pretty sure that none have been given.

    If UC is second fiddle, does that mean that Ithaca is 3rd of 4th chair, or do they go straight to flute?

    I'll be passing through Utica between Christmas and New Year's. Maybe we can meet up and you can show me all the trophies you get for being a 2-seed and the runners-up at the E8 Tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bball05 on December 04, 2007, 09:54:02 PM
    does any1 kno wut ithaca did?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 09:55:27 PM
    In more relevant news, Ithaca knocks off rival Cortland (5-2, 1-0) by a score of 62-53. Neither team shoots very well (IC-32%, C-State 35%), but the Bombers made their FT's (95%). Burton leads with 19 pts, Leahy adds 10, and Tom Brown chips in 13pts and 6 rebs. The Red Dragons led by Will Coston's 15 pts. Ithaca plays next on Sunday at Stevens which will be a big test.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bball05 on December 04, 2007, 09:58:12 PM
    i dnt like how people r making bostic 2 be so good nd he was 2/12 fromt he field with 4 points
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 10:04:40 PM
    Quote from: bball05 on December 04, 2007, 09:58:12 PM
    i dnt like how people r making bostic 2 be so good nd he was 2/12 fromt he field with 4 points

    Seriously. Can you believe those people?? I mean, look at that, he was 2/12 in one game! Kick him off the team! Bench him! He had a bad shooting night! Not acceptable. He should no longer be considered a 1st team E8 player. While you're at it, get ridda Leahy, too. He was 3/13. The nerve of those two!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 04, 2007, 10:14:03 PM
    A big win for the Bombers tonight, protecting their home floor in front of another big crowd. The game was very physical and hard fought by both teams. A very close game from start to finish. It was a story of two halves as well. Cortland came out and wanted it more than Ithaca, Cortland pushed Ithaca around and made it tough for them to run their offense and get the shots they wanted. Cortland also slowed the tempo of the game down a lot, evident by Ithaca's low in points in a game.

    Ithaca battled back with big defensive stops and owned the battle of the boards. Cortland also went inside a lot in the first half but they didn't get any easy looks in the second half and their shooting percentage dropped from 50% to 22%. Overall a solid job by the Bombers and they showed they knew how to win down the stretch, running the clock down, getting great ball movement and having a wide open shot with 15-10 seconds left on the shot clock.

    Bostic had a tough match-up with Cortland's bigs. He didn't play well and had a tough time with the inside presence Cortland had, his jump shot was also off, along with Leahy's. Bostic and Leahy still gave great effort on defense and on the glass and as a team they kept battling and wanted it more down the stretch. Great play off the bench again, which has been a great part of the Bomber success so far this season. They gave the Bombers a spark kept them in the game. Big win, but now its on to the match-up with Stevens on Sunday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 04, 2007, 10:20:20 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 10:04:40 PM
    Quote from: bball05 on December 04, 2007, 09:58:12 PM
    i dnt like how people r making bostic 2 be so good nd he was 2/12 fromt he field with 4 points

    Seriously. Can you believe those people?? I mean, look at that, he was 2/12 in one game! Kick him off the team! Bench him! He had a bad shooting night! Not acceptable. He should no longer be considered a 1st team E8 player. While you're at it, get ridda Leahy, too. He was 3/13. The nerve of those two!


    Hey GB15, I can't see too well, is that Bill Shakespeare over there?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 04, 2007, 10:20:20 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 06:41:32 PMShow me a single coach that thinks 35 foot jumpers with 20 or more seconds on the shot clock with less than 5 to go in a close game is a team that knows how to win, and I will show you a coach who either has already been or will soon be fired.

    ...or will have been named NBA Coach of the Year:

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fespn.go.com%2Fi%2Fpage2%2Fphotos%2F060602%2Fmike_dantoni_275.jpg&hash=1b445c18d85a19baea52571ac7c0938cb4341142)

    but I'm sure an old guy that used to keep the book at Utica College knows more than a guy with 227 career wins in the NBA.

    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 08:59:51 PMWhat excuses are you talking about? I am pretty sure that none have been given.

    Maybe you should be certain before posting instead of just "pretty sure."

    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 04, 2007, 06:41:32 PMIn fact, if UC hadn't missed 3 of the layups they got off the missed shots in those situations, you were looking at a 2 point game with a few minutes to play. Just because they got lucky and pulled it out despite making poor decisions, doesn't mean they did the right thing.

    Also, if UC had scored more points than IC, they'd have won the game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 04, 2007, 10:21:07 PM
    Quote from: bball05 on December 04, 2007, 09:58:12 PM
    i dnt like how people r making bostic 2 be so good nd he was 2/12 fromt he field with 4 points

    this post submitted via text message.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 04, 2007, 11:14:14 PM
    Have to give bostic until a few games into the 2nd semester to be fully back. Coming in directly off of football is tough on both conditioning and mainly confidence.  Although it is easier on someone who playes the post and is more of an athlete then a skill player but will still take some games to be back. Anyone know anyting on RIT vs. Naz?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 04, 2007, 11:18:34 PM
    Nevermind read the RIT website, Naz one in overtime.  Blue a 20 pt lead in the first half.  lead by Ryan McAdam with 23 pts 13 assists and 5  boards and canori with 23 pts.  Ryan McAdam is definatly going to be up for MVP if he continues to play well and Naz does well in the conf. the kid can play.  Kenny Gethers from RIT had 24pts as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on December 05, 2007, 12:21:19 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 04, 2007, 10:21:07 PM
    Quote from: bball05 on December 04, 2007, 09:58:12 PM
    i dnt like how people r making bostic 2 be so good nd he was 2/12 fromt he field with 4 points

    this post submitted via text message.

    OMG, my, BFF Munch...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 05, 2007, 09:56:27 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 04, 2007, 06:15:34 PM
    Bamm, did you not attend the Fisher/RIT game? I figured you'd be there.

    Being in attendance while RIT blows a winnable game to the Cardinals has become routine for me, yes.  It's the true sign that winter is upon us.  But sadly, life is making attending basketball games difficult for me lately -- way too many hours in the office.  I didn't make it to the Naz game last night either, which sounds like it was pretty darn entertaining.

    A couple of observations from the box score:

    The McAdam boys played the entire 45 minutes. Wow.

    Mark  Carson's improvement does not seem to be a fluke.  I'm officially impressed.  He went for 16 and 9 last night, including converting a three-point play with thirty seconds left in regulation to give the Tigers a two point lead.

    Kenny Gethers has 49 points and 26 rebounds in two E8 contests.  That's not against Elmira and Alfred either, folks.

    I promise I will be at the UR game next week.  So I might actually have something insightful to say -- though perhaps sure some of you doubt that. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 05, 2007, 10:38:08 AM
    Quote from: bamm on December 05, 2007, 09:56:27 AMI promise I will be at the UR game next week.  So I might actually have something insightful to say -- though perhaps sure some of you doubt that. 

    ha.  +k.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 05, 2007, 02:35:47 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 04, 2007, 11:18:34 PM
    Nevermind read the RIT website, Naz one in overtime.  Blue a 20 pt lead in the first half.  lead by Ryan McAdam with 23 pts 13 assists and 5  boards and canori with 23 pts.  Ryan McAdam is definatly going to be up for MVP if he continues to play well and Naz does well in the conf. the kid can play.  Kenny Gethers from RIT had 24pts as well.

    Well FisherDynasty, not only was your grammar terrible in that first sentence but your stats were incorrect as well. Just read the ritathletics.com write-up of the game and it got the Mcadams mixed up in the game story. However, check out the box score and you'll see that there scoring was as follows:

    -Canori 23 pts
    -C. McAdams 20pts 13 assts
    -R. McAdams 19pts 12 rbs
    -Dehimer 17pts

    As for RIT...

    -Gethers another big night with 20 pts and 14rbs
    -Carson 16pts 9rbs.

    This weekend should be interesting capped off with IC visiting Stevens on Sunday afternoon.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on December 05, 2007, 03:47:42 PM
    Don't mean to ask a question that involves one of the bottom two teams, but I was wondering what Murphy at AU has to do to get removed from his position. I mean, Alfred has yet to win this season, and I'm not sure who they can beat this year based on the outcomes of their games thus far. Granted, I haven't actually seen them play and I believe they've lost one of their better players, but AU hasn't been good for a while. On D3hoops it shows the records for the last five seasons, plus this year's mark so far and it's, well, pretty bad. Here it is:

    2008 0-6 (0-1)
    2007 10-14 (8-6)
    2006 12-13 (6-8)
    2005 13-12 (7-7)
    2004 3-22 (2-12)
    2003 5-20 (2-12)

    I tried to find his past record at the AU website, but it didn't appear to be there. I did find a record listed in an old media guide before the 2005-06 season, where it said his record in 10 seasons was 106-148. I did some quick math, adding in the last few years and this year, thus far, to that record, which stands at I believe, 128-181 at AU.

    Not sure if anyone here, maybe AUPepBand, can answer this. I know most D3 coaches don't really have to worry too much about getting fired, but he's done so little with so much talent, it's unbelievable.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 05, 2007, 03:50:50 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on December 05, 2007, 03:47:42 PMNot sure if anyone here, maybe AUPepBand, can answer this. I know most D3 coaches don't really have to worry too much about getting fired, but he's done so little with so much talent, it's unbelievable.

    It is my experience that coaches in D3 do not get fired for losing.  I really can't think of an example where a coach got fired and the termination was not supported by some reason unrelated to success on the field/court.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 05, 2007, 05:11:30 PM
    haha yeah I was way too lazy and tired to go back in change it, the Blue out was the best part.  Myself like Bamm way too many hours in the office. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: randombballfan on December 05, 2007, 10:33:26 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 05, 2007, 03:50:50 PM


    It is my experience that coaches in D3 do not get fired for losing.  I really can't think of an example where a coach got fired and the termination was not supported by some reason unrelated to success on the field/court.

    Coach Hayne from Stevens was fired 2 years ago for not taking them to the NCAA's. Coach Lauffler is now te new head coach and Stevens made it to the Sweet 16, and look like they might make it to the championships this year
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 05, 2007, 10:41:01 PM
    Quote from: randombballfan on December 05, 2007, 10:33:26 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 05, 2007, 03:50:50 PM


    It is my experience that coaches in D3 do not get fired for losing.  I really can't think of an example where a coach got fired and the termination was not supported by some reason unrelated to success on the field/court.

    Coach Hayne from Stevens was fired 2 years ago for not taking them to the NCAA's. Coach Lauffler is now te new head coach and Stevens made it to the Sweet 16, and look like they might make it to the championships this year

    Well we have ourselves an official Stevens fan and he's certainly jumped in with a bang.  Wow.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 05, 2007, 11:30:37 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 05, 2007, 10:41:01 PM
    Quote from: randombballfan on December 05, 2007, 10:33:26 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 05, 2007, 03:50:50 PM


    It is my experience that coaches in D3 do not get fired for losing.  I really can't think of an example where a coach got fired and the termination was not supported by some reason unrelated to success on the field/court.

    Coach Hayne from Stevens was fired 2 years ago for not taking them to the NCAA's. Coach Lauffler is now te new head coach and Stevens made it to the Sweet 16, and look like they might make it to the championships this year

    Well we have ourselves an official Stevens fan and he's certainly jumped in with a bang.  Wow.

    Almost Caz.  Looks like we have ourselves an official Stevens player.  Nate Williams, Senior from Elmhurst NY.

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stevensducks.com%2Fassets%2Fsports%2Fmbball%2Fthumbs%2F4065.JPG&hash=cc0259dac0f37fb048181c90529447ec95c03a9b)

    Although, he might qualify as a fan as well since he is getting just 8.3 min more per game than I am.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 06, 2007, 10:49:03 AM
    Outstanding.  Please hold, Mr. Williams, we have Nick Gatto on Line 1 for you.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 06, 2007, 11:20:07 AM
    Caz, you see the new Bomber unis online?  Ithacan has a photo gallery.  I dig them.  Good work by Coach Mullins.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 06, 2007, 12:40:22 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 06, 2007, 11:20:07 AM
    Caz, you see the new Bomber unis online?  Ithacan has a photo gallery.  I dig them.  Good work by Coach Mullins.

    Gray?  We look like a Georgetown intramural team in those photos, I guess it goes along with the women looking like Georgia Tech.

    Blue.  Gold.  This is not a difficult concept.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 06, 2007, 05:21:38 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 06, 2007, 12:40:22 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 06, 2007, 11:20:07 AM
    Caz, you see the new Bomber unis online?  Ithacan has a photo gallery.  I dig them.  Good work by Coach Mullins.

    Gray?  We look like a Georgetown intramural team in those photos, I guess it goes along with the women looking like Georgia Tech.

    Blue.  Gold.  This is not a difficult concept.

    They were mentioning the new unis at the beginning of the Utica game. I really think our basketball team is turning into the Oregon of D1 football. Over the past three seasons, I think we have had about 9 jersey combos (new home, road, alternates each year). Not sure what's going on with the Silver jerseys. Silver? I wonder if they kept the banana yellow ones for their alternates this season. God, I'm just waiting for them to wear a red jersey to celebrate Valentine's Day, at this point.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 06, 2007, 05:36:23 PM
    1. You guys are both crazy.  The greys are awesome.

    2.  If they go back to the yellows, then number 52 aint going to have a shirt.  Not going to tell you how I know that.

    3. Best new uni story at IC.  Freshman year we are dressing for pictures or the first game or something.  Whatever it was, the new roadies were coming straight out of the box.  Somebody asks El-Amin John Lyons, why he wasn't wearing 23 that season.  Lyons looks at this jersey and says it is 23.  Yeah, 23 on the front, 32 on the back.  Had to send those unis back.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 06, 2007, 07:40:26 PM
    Just looked at the play-by-play from the RIT/Naz game the other night. Looks like it was a hell of a game. A lot of runs and momentum swings. In a microcosm of what Naz basketball is, the Golden Flyers were up and down all night. Naz led by 19 points with 6 minutes left in the 1st half. With 15 minutes left in the second half, the game was tied. With 1:20 remaining in the game, Naz led by six and couldn't hold it. With :04 seconds left, they led by 2 and couldn't end it in regulation. That team must take years of their fans' lives. But that's Naz basketball for you.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 06, 2007, 07:47:16 PM
    Naz has fans?  Are we sure about that, GB15?

    Also don't forget about green jerseys for St. Patrick's Day.  Maybe we'll have to leave that to Team George Val and/or the Mighty Palozzis.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on December 06, 2007, 08:15:32 PM
    Bamm- you are going to be impressed by Carson.  He's slimmed down and spins almost like Bacon.  His foul shot though looks worse than Bacon's.  If fact it may rival that Petinella kids for all ugly. I know this is cruel but both of them make Shaq's tosses look pretty good. But I do want to sing Carson's praises, he may be one the most improved ballplayers I've seen in d-3 this year.  He truly has become a player to be concerned about.  Uses his size well in establishing low post position and hustles his       a- - off for every rebound.  Also the freshman class impressed me when I saw them (best class I've seen in the last 5 years).  Will be awaiting your comments with baited breath because I'm not from Ithaca and I do respect you opinion!!!   ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 06, 2007, 08:34:27 PM
    Quote from: with age comes? on December 06, 2007, 08:15:32 PM
    Bamm- you are going to be impressed by Carson.  He's slimmed down and spins almost like Bacon.  His foul shot though looks worse than Bacon's.  If fact it may rival that Petinella kids for all ugly. I know this is cruel but both of them make Shaq's tosses look pretty good. But I do want to sing Carson's praises, he may be one the most improved ballplayers I've seen in d-3 this year.  He truly has become a player to be concerned about.  Uses his size well in establishing low post position and hustles his       a- - off for every rebound.  Also the freshman class impressed me when I saw them (best class I've seen in the last 5 years).  Will be awaiting your comments with baited breath because I'm not from Ithaca and I do respect you opinion!!!   ;D

    Don't think he was referring to Ithaca fans.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 06, 2007, 10:54:59 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 06, 2007, 05:36:23 PM
    1. You guys are both crazy.  The greys are awesome.

    2.  If they go back to the yellows, then number 52 aint going to have a shirt.  Not going to tell you how I know that.

    3. Best new uni story at IC.  Freshman year we are dressing for pictures or the first game or something.  Whatever it was, the new roadies were coming straight out of the box.  Somebody asks El-Amin John Lyons, why he wasn't wearing 23 that season.  Lyons looks at this jersey and says it is 23.  Yeah, 23 on the front, 32 on the back.  Had to send those unis back.

    He is right the grey unis are great. Ithaca still has yellow unis, although i think the ones they were for alternate now are more gold then banana, but i have seen those banana ones, never in action. Ithaca also got new blue unis from nike a few years back, the #23 jersey in that set also had 32 printed on the back, which meant Brian Joe had to wear 14 when the blue unis were worn and 23 with white or gold. The greys are the best unis Ithaca has by far, even though the nike blue's are a personal favorite, no one else liked them they were took long, people had to roll their waste band over a few times in order to play.

    Big game for Ithaca, it will be exciting to see how they do on the road vs Stevens this early in the season, it is a big test.

    Also a big weekend as the RIT and Naz travel to Utica/Hartwick.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on December 06, 2007, 11:35:18 PM
    Certainly didn't mean you bombers! You are witty and insightful and I miss your banter with the HAWK!!  Wherefore art thou o HAWK, you kept me so amused...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 07, 2007, 08:44:55 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 06, 2007, 08:34:27 PM
    Quote from: with age comes? on December 06, 2007, 08:15:32 PM
    Bamm- you are going to be impressed by Carson.  He's slimmed down and spins almost like Bacon.  His foul shot though looks worse than Bacon's.  If fact it may rival that Petinella kids for all ugly. I know this is cruel but both of them make Shaq's tosses look pretty good. But I do want to sing Carson's praises, he may be one the most improved ballplayers I've seen in d-3 this year.  He truly has become a player to be concerned about.  Uses his size well in establishing low post position and hustles his       a- - off for every rebound.  Also the freshman class impressed me when I saw them (best class I've seen in the last 5 years).  Will be awaiting your comments with baited breath because I'm not from Ithaca and I do respect you opinion!!!   ;D

    Don't think he was referring to Ithaca fans.

    With age --- thanks for the compliment.  Between Gethers, the freshman, and Carson's improvement, there's a lot I look forward to seeing.  With my "insight" comment, I was certainly just trying to be a little self-deprecating and funny, which I think everyone sort of got. 

    I really have nothing to compare Carson's foul shot to.  It's incredible. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 07, 2007, 11:52:27 AM
    Fisher back in the W column with an 86-74 win over D'Youville. Beigel goes off for 28 pts, 15 rebs, 5 assts, 3 blks, 2 stls. Matt Newman has his second solid game in a row, scoring 17. Ozell Franklin starts in the absence of Baltz (is he hurt?) and pours in 11.

    Here's what I'd guess the early lines are this weekend:

    FRIDAY

    Elmira (+24.5) at Stevens
    RIT (-7.5) at Hartwick
    Naz (-4) at Utica

    SATURDAY

    RIT (pick) at Utica
    Fisher (-14.5) at Alfred

    SUNDAY

    Ithaca (+8.5) at Stevens
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 07, 2007, 10:01:26 PM
    The E8 site is reporting that Stevens barely got by Elmira, 62-59. That score can't be right. I do not know a possible scenario that could make such a score correct. The Stevens bus crashed on their way to a home game and a bunch of mini-Stevens' players had to play instead, a la the mini Ditka's? Even so, I would have still predicted a 15pt win for the mini-Ducks. Must be a misprint.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 07, 2007, 10:30:52 PM
    My favorite Ithaca uniforms was the year or two when the women dressed in the Syracuse '03 style.  I think I just got GB15 teary-eyed mentioning Syracuse 2003.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on December 07, 2007, 11:19:53 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 07, 2007, 10:01:26 PM
    The E8 site is reporting that Stevens barely got by Elmira, 62-59. That score can't be right. I do not know a possible scenario that could make such a score correct. The Stevens bus crashed on their way to a home game and a bunch of mini-Stevens' players had to play instead, a la the mini Ditka's? Even so, I would have still predicted a 15pt win for the mini-Ducks. Must be a misprint.


    The score's right, GB, the Stevens website has it up, and they call it a "hard-fought" victory. ??????
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on December 07, 2007, 11:43:45 PM
    UC just got completely screwed tonight. Lost by two, free throw attempts were 33 to 8.

    One ref called nearly every foul, with some blatantly terrible ones late in the game. In the first half, naz scored 14 points in the last 8 minutes, 12 were from the charity stripe. In the second half, every time naz missed a shot in the last 6 minutes he put them on the line with a bail out. Naz looks terrible. Decent officials and they lose by at least 15. Almost half of their 66 points came from the line in a 2 point win.

    UC would score, play tough D, force a bad shot, and then naz would shoot 2 free throws.

    There were some D1 refs there evaluating tonights officials. Getting to talk for a few minutes with one afterwards was interesting. Don't be surprised if disciplinary action is taken against one of the officials of tonights contes... errr silver platter.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3lifer on December 07, 2007, 11:53:05 PM
    Sounds like some interesting matchups and outcomes this evening in the empire 8, Hartwick 84 RIT 80, Hartwick trailed by 25 points with about 15:00 minutes to go in the game.  (Coco with 42 pts, 10 rebs)

    Can't sleep on Utica or Fisher despite some early struggles both are well coached teams who understand how to win. Should be an exciting year. Ithaca seems to be a well balanced team to this point in the year.

    Steven's will pose some interesting matchups, they appear to be built just a bit differently as a team than most other Empire 8 teams.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 08, 2007, 02:05:41 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on December 07, 2007, 11:43:45 PM
    UC just got completely screwed tonight. Lost by two, free throw attempts were 33 to 8.

    One ref called nearly every foul, with some blatantly terrible ones late in the game. In the first half, naz scored 14 points in the last 8 minutes, 12 were from the charity stripe. In the second half, every time naz missed a shot in the last 6 minutes he put them on the line with a bail out. Naz looks terrible. Decent officials and they lose by at least 15. Almost half of their 66 points came from the line in a 2 point win.

    UC would score, play tough D, force a bad shot, and then naz would shoot 2 free throws.

    There were some D1 refs there evaluating tonights officials. Getting to talk for a few minutes with one afterwards was interesting. Don't be surprised if disciplinary action is taken against one of the officials of tonights contes... errr silver platter.

    1) Wahmbulance.

    2) A Utica loss and UCgrad complaining about the officiating. Yep, we must be close to Christmas.

    3) That post was about as predictable as the sun rising in the east today.

    4) I bet the refs slammed home Corey McAdam's winning fadeaway jumper, too. You know, they saw it wasn't going in so they swooped in and slammed it home.

    5) I guess there goes your theory theory that only the Rochester refs have it in for Utica.

    6) If a "D1 official" was there scouting/supervising, and he gave you feedback to the extent that one of the officials is going to be disciplined, he is one of the most unprofessional people I have ever heard of. Referees tend not to throw other refs under the bus. How is he going to be disciplined? For sucking at being a ref? A lot of D3 refs would be on the chopping block if that were the case.

    7) Maybe Utica isn't all that good?

    8) Nice lockdown defense by Coulda-played-D1-Dennis (Munch) on Corey McAdam. Good defense to the tune of 18pts and 8assts. Let me guess, he guarded Canori? In that case, glad to see your lockdown defender is guarding a team's 3rd best player.

    Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 07, 2007, 10:30:52 PM
    My favorite Ithaca uniforms was the year or two when the women dressed in the Syracuse '03 style.  I think I just got GB15 teary-eyed mentioning Syracuse 2003.

    It did get a tad dusty in here. Whenever I drive by the Superdome, I salute.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 08, 2007, 02:09:41 PM
    haha gobombers..

    A couple questions:

    UCgrad - how did UC get screwed?? Foul shots in favor of naz would maybe indicate so, but if you look at 3pt shots (UC 23, Naz 9) that would indicate that UC was settling for outside shots while naz was taking it to the hole and maybe getting fouled more.

    How did naz look terrible?

    What did these refs say after the game?

    More importantly -

    How does RIT allow that comeback by Jan Coco & co?! How can 'wick score 50 pts in the last 12 minutes!?! I'm sure Bob McVean isn't very happy as his team blew that game and has dug themselves quite the whole early in the conference schedule.

    And, any word on what happened between Stevens-Elmira? As in, how was that a 3pt game as the team that everyone thinks should win the conference (stevens ducks) beats EC by only 3 pts.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 08, 2007, 02:21:22 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on December 08, 2007, 02:09:41 PM

    And, any word on what happened between Stevens-Elmira? As in, how was that a 3pt game as the team that everyone thinks should win the conference (stevens ducks) beats EC by only 3 pts.


    "Well, Stevens shot 30 FT's and Elmira only 7. It must have been the refs' fault!!! Kill the refereeeeee!!!"

    And apparently there's a rumor that Dick Bavetta and Joey Crawford were present at the game. Yeah, true story. After each missed call, they'd go down to the floor and demonstrate to the entire crowd why the call was incorrect. Afterwards, they both made a call to the E8 Commish and advocated for harsh sanctions against the officials. Yeah, I'm not kidding. And just to drive the point home, they made this call over the PA system so that all the fans would know exactly how bad the officials were and so that they could embarrass one of their own.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 08, 2007, 02:34:38 PM
    I can venture two easy guesses from looking at the stats and when the game was played.



    1)  Stevens shot 3-21 from behind the arc.  At home.  Bad shooting nights make for close games.  Particularly because it looks like the guys that we missing are both relatively good 3 point shooters (Passalcqua 1-6?  Didn't he shoot like 40% from the arc last year?)


    2)  Look at what happened to Brandeis when they were looking ahead to Amherst.  Stevens probably wrote off the Elmira game and was looking forward to the big matchup with Ithaca.


    If I had to guess, those are the two most logical reasons I'm going with.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 08, 2007, 06:57:07 PM
    I guess everyone's started their Saturday night festivities early.

    RIT beat Utica 64-61 behind Barrett Zeinfeld's 19 points.  Mark Carson had 14 and 10.  Doug Herring led Utica with 15 points.  UC shot just 3 free throws in their own gym.  Zeinfeld hits a 3 with 1:10 left to break a tie and Herring missed a three to tie with 18 seconds left.

    Fisher went on the road and slaughtered winless Alfred 78-43.  The coaches were right, AU has absolutely nothing in the tank.  Baltz leads a balanced attack with 15 points.  James Simmermeyer had 10, the only Saxon in double figures.  Alfred 29% from the floor and 2-16 from distance.  Brutal.

    EDIT: With 9:55 left in the 1st half and Fisher already up 17-5, Justin Beigel and AU's Ellis Walsh got hit with the ol' double technical.  44 total fouls and 47 total free throws seems a bit much for such a blowout, musta been a real chippy game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 08, 2007, 07:05:24 PM
    I think we should all just come to expect the unexpected from RIT and Hartwick this season.  Hartwick can score, and if any of the teams in the league don't bring energy on the defensive end, they will find themselves in trouble.  RIT has talent but like last year, they don't appear to come out consistently on the defensive end every game.

    After blowing a 25 point lead last night (59-34 with 12+ minutes to go) in what must have been a demoralizing loss, the Tigers find a way to get a win in Utica.

    Utica, clearly, is not very good.

    Mark Carson went for 14 points and 10 rebounds against Utica.
    He had 18 points and 16 rebounds in the Friday Night game at Hartwick.

    Foul trouble finally slows down Kenny Gethers this weekend.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 08, 2007, 07:27:34 PM
    All disdain for Utica aside, they are in trouble. Getting swept at home hurts bad. They still have Fisher, Ithaca, and Stevens coming to town. They still have to play at Stevens, at Fisher, at RIT, etc. They just don't get to the line. I mean, three FT's in one game? Sounds like they're settling for jumpers. That's more than refs. You can back into 10 FT's a game without trying too hard.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on December 08, 2007, 08:22:36 PM
    You know, I think the refs are the reason UC's football team has had a couple down years recently.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on December 08, 2007, 10:53:50 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 08, 2007, 06:57:07 PM
    Fisher went on the road and slaughtered winless Alfred 78-43.  The coaches were right, AU has absolutely nothing in the tank.  Baltz leads a balanced attack with 15 points.  James Simmermeyer had 10, the only Saxon in double figures.  Alfred 29% from the floor and 2-16 from distance.  Brutal.

    Can Alfred get any win this year? Pep, you're the inside man on this, is there anyone on the Lady Saxons schedule they can beat?

    Note: Lady is correct. Actually, the real Lady Saxons could probably beat the "men."
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 09, 2007, 05:03:11 PM
    42-38 IC at halftime over Stevens.  Leahy with 14, surprisingly Bostic has 0.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 09, 2007, 05:41:09 PM
    Just tuned in to watch.  Brendan Rogers has about 6 TO in the last 8 Bomber possessions while IC has pissed away a lead.  Not sure why Burton isn't playing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2007, 07:28:54 PM
    Ithaca falls to Stevens, 83-74. Sean Leahy leads the Bombers with 21. Passalacqua and Gray pace the Ducks with 19 each, Williams goes for 13 and 7, and Matt Higgins chips in 10 off the bench. Sean Burton scores 4 pts in 6 mins of play. Not sure what happend to him, but he didn't play beyond the 14 minute mark of the 1st half. If it's an injury, hopefully not too serious for the Bomber PG who is on the short list for E8 POY right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 09, 2007, 07:35:49 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 09, 2007, 07:28:54 PMSean Burton scores 4 pts in 6 mins of play. Not sure what happend to him, but he didn't play beyond the 14 minute mark of the 1st half. If it's an injury, hopefully not too serious for the Bomber PG who is on the short list for E8 POY right now.

    Also, IC does not appear to have any competent replacement.  Based solely on the 13 minutes or so that I watched today, Rogers isn't answer at PG. 

    Stevens didn't wow me, which is scary.  They are just a solid team that does everything well but nothing extraordinary.  Fun to watch.  Glad to know the rematch will also be on TV.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 09, 2007, 08:06:50 PM
    Umm, wow.  Elmira ran Hobart 74-63 on the road in Geneva.  David Nelson with 21.  So EC almost beats Stevens, then convincingly beats the same Hobart team that walloped Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2007, 08:35:28 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 09, 2007, 08:06:50 PM
    Umm, wow.  Elmira ran Hobart 74-63 on the road in Geneva.  David Nelson with 21.  So EC almost beats Stevens, then convincingly beats the same Hobart team that walloped Fisher.

    Looks like Alfred may soon be taking over Elmira's room in the basement.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on December 09, 2007, 09:22:03 PM
    Very interesting to see what Elmira has done in the last two games.  Makes you take a somewhat serious look at them.  I think that we are in for some suprises this year in conference play.  Anyone can win on Friday night and then come back and get beat Saturday to whoever it is they are playing.  I still see the E8 top four as Stevens, Naz, Ithaca and either Fisher or Utica.  Tough few games ahead for Fisher as well.  With U of R and WPI......
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 09, 2007, 11:43:32 PM
    Any word on what happened to Burton?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 09, 2007, 11:55:01 PM
    Ithaca lost a tough one at Stevens this afternoon. Back and fourth game which Ithaca lead most of the way, with each team having runs, but Stevens went on a run late in the second half and took control of the game. They made there FT's down the stretch which helped them out and got great play from Passalcqua who shot very well from behind the arc tonight.

    From what i've heard about the Burton injury, he went up for a lay-up which was blocked off the backboard (possible goal-tending) and was hit hard after letting go of the ball, not a dirty play as the player attemped to block the ball but no foul was called and he hit the ground face first under the basket. Stevens rebounded the ball and went on the break but the refs called time right away for the injury. He landed face first (didn't even have his arms out to brace the fall) had a  cut on his nose, broke his nose and most likely has a concussion. They way he landed i heard looked very bad as he laid motionless under the basket. Not sure of his status for the only game left first semester but he is okay and in good health after the hard fall.

    The Bombers played very hard without Burton. A number of people stepped up and played well . No one should be upset with the play of Brendan Rogers as he played very hard and was asked to do something he is only asked to do for about 5 minutes a night for an entire game without any real preparation. I doubt he gets a lot of runs at the PG spot in practice. Some other people needed to step up and pick up their play in his absence.

    I still don't think people can crown Stevens as champs yet with a close win vs an improving Elmira team and had a great battle with Ithaca at their place early in the semester. I can't wait to see the game when they play in late feb. i heard tonight's game had that type of atmosphere to it. I hope Sean Burton is ok, from what i heard it was a hard fall.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on December 10, 2007, 03:08:04 AM
    This a very scary weekend...  Other than Alfred which I saw lose to very shall I say "average" Hilbert team early this season by about 15... it looks like anybody can beat anyboby on any given night. Who would have ever dreamed I'd be including Elmira in that statement.  I've seen only RIT, Ithaca (minus Bostic) and Alfred, but I think from early impressions the win, place, show is Stevens, Ithaca & Naz and I'm not sure of the order.  I hope Burton is OK.  It's probably a "silver lining "blessing that it comes towards the end of the semester of ball and there will be some down time for healing.  He's an impressive talent whose skills should be seen by all.  I truly hope he recovers quickly and fully.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on December 10, 2007, 04:11:50 AM
    Quote from: with age comes? on December 10, 2007, 03:08:04 AM
    This a very scary weekend...  Other than Alfred which I saw lose to very shall I say "average" Hilbert team early this season by about 15... it looks like anybody can beat anyboby on any given night. Who would have ever dreamed I'd be including Elmira in that statement.  I've seen only RIT, Ithaca (minus Bostic) and Alfred, but I think from early impressions the win, place, show is Stevens, Ithaca & Naz and I'm not sure of the order.  I hope Burton is OK.  It's probably a "silver lining "blessing that it comes towards the end of the semester of ball and there will be some down time for healing.  He's an impressive talent whose skills should be seen by all.  I truly hope he recovers quickly and fully.

    From what I can tell it doesn't sound like Ithaca plus Bostic is much different so far...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 10, 2007, 08:25:04 AM
    I wouldnt forget about fisher, when they have a full squad come late in the season they will be right there knocking on the door again. 

    So burton got hurt against steven's, thats too bad, seems like Ithaca had the lead before he went down.  This first semester has been a crazy one, especially compared to prior years.  Im not sure how much we can take from it though, as it seems a lot of teams have been missing players, and some younger teams will grow at a faster rate to more experienced teams.  Should be an interesting one come E8 tourny time.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 10, 2007, 08:58:40 AM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 09, 2007, 11:55:01 PMNo one should be upset with the play of Brendan Rogers as he played very hard and was asked to do something he is only asked to do for about 5 minutes a night for an entire game without any real preparation. I doubt he gets a lot of runs at the PG spot in practice. Some other people needed to step up and pick up their play in his absence.

    That actually makes a lot of sense.  In the 15 minutes that I saw, he looked very indecisive, which lead to a lot of the turnovers.  Makes sense he would be indecisive if he was filling in.  I just assumed he was Burton's backup.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 10, 2007, 09:26:00 AM
    Interesting note, maybe just to me --

    On the local (Rochester) sports "rundown" on the radio this morning, Jon Ditullio actually gave the Ithaca/Stevens score.  Now, normally you can get a Fisher/UR/Naz score, and occasionally RIT, but it's pretty uncommon to get scores from that far out of town.

    I don't know if there's any conclusion to be drawn from that or if it's even interesting at all, but I felt like posting it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 10, 2007, 11:06:19 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 10, 2007, 08:58:40 AM

    That actually makes a lot of sense.  In the 15 minutes that I saw, he looked very indecisive, which lead to a lot of the turnovers.  Makes sense he would be indecisive if he was filling in.  I just assumed he was Burton's backup.

    Not sure of the exact role of Rogers, when Burton has been out of the games for rest it has either been Ruffrage or Rogers playing at the PG spot. Ruffrage starts and Rogers plays more then the time Burton sits but i doubt either one gets enough practice time to be ready to run the offense Ithaca has put in this year. Still all reports from the players that i have heard praised Rogers for stepping up and shoulder the load for that game.

    Quote from: bamm on December 10, 2007, 09:26:00 AM
    Interesting note, maybe just to me --

    On the local (Rochester) sports "rundown" on the radio this morning, Jon Ditullio actually gave the Ithaca/Stevens score.  Now, normally you can get a Fisher/UR/Naz score, and occasionally RIT, but it's pretty uncommon to get scores from that far out of town.

    I don't know if there's any conclusion to be drawn from that or if it's even interesting at all, but I felt like posting it.

    Bamm, i find this very interesting news, not sure what to make of it either but it does make it seem like a lot of people in Rochester had their eyes or ears on yesterday's game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 10, 2007, 12:44:08 PM
    Keeping with the ultimately inconsequential facts theme of my posts today -- UR will be the #1 team in the D3Hoops.com Top 25 when they visit RIT tomorrow night and when they host Fisher this weekend. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on December 10, 2007, 02:54:08 PM
    Quote from: bamm on December 10, 2007, 09:26:00 AM
    Interesting note, maybe just to me --

    On the local (Rochester) sports "rundown" on the radio this morning, Jon Ditullio actually gave the Ithaca/Stevens score.  Now, normally you can get a Fisher/UR/Naz score, and occasionally RIT, but it's pretty uncommon to get scores from that far out of town.

    I don't know if there's any conclusion to be drawn from that or if it's even interesting at all, but I felt like posting it.

    Ithaca and Rochester: a match made in heaven. Two of three places Max has lived.

    Title: Radio coverage of Bombers basketball this weekend
    Post by: WICB Sports on December 11, 2007, 01:03:00 PM
    WICB's coverage of Friday night's men's basketball game between St. Lawrence and Ithaca begins at 6:40 p.m. with Bombers Shootaround.  At 7 p.m., Pete Sachs and Dan Cassavaugh have the call of the game from the Ben Light Gymnasium.  Listen in at 91.7 FM in Ithaca or at www.wicb.org.

    On Sunday, WICB presents its 2007 Bombers Year in Review from 6-8 p.m.as we highlight the top 10 moments from Ithaca College sports in 2007.  We'll have all the calls from 2007's greatest moments and the key athletes live in studio.  Our top 10:

    10. Men's basketball 4 OT vs. St. John Fisher
    9. Sue Kelly scores 1000 career points
    8. Softball team win the Empire 8 and goes to the NCAA tournament
    7. Women's basketball wins Empire 8 and goes to the NCAA tournament
    6. Football team earns at-large berth for NCAA playoffs and scores 18 points against Mount Union.
    5. Jamie Donovan breaks all-time rushing and scoring records.
    4. Chelsea Feldman breaks a host of women's soccer records.
    3. Baseball team advances to within one game of the World Series.
    2. Women's soccer wins Empire 8, advances to NCAA Quarterfinals.
    1. Football wins the Cortaca Jug.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 11, 2007, 10:25:22 PM
    Annoying:  Realizing as you walk into the gym that the game is already at halftime (I should have realized the girls weren't playing).

    Really Annoying:  Walking in at halftime to your team being down 16.

    The rest of the night played out a little better, though.  I'll start by saying this -- it would be difficult to convince me that UR is the best team in the country.  Onyiriuka is still there, but I really thought he'd be better than he is by now.  Carson out-positioned and out-hustled him in the 20 minutes I saw. 

    In fact, I just looked at the box score and it confirmed what I thought I was seeing -- Carson did outscore and outrebound him (albeit by small margins) in the 2nd. 

    Ndubizu is a nice player as well.  He and Onyiriuka are quick and play strong -- but I don't necessarily think they can't be neutralized. 

    UR's guards play smart and they all shoot well.  Their ability to hit a timely three is what kept them from letting this one slip away -- RIT had the lead down to four with eight minutes left.


    As to RIT -- Carson looks like he's lost a few pounds and is really light on his feet.  His foul shot looks a hell of a lot better too.  Each one of his attempts at least has a chance to go in -- which is more than I could say about his backboard cracking heaters of last season.

    I'm also really impressed by a couple of the freshman -- Shane Foster and Nate Korinchuk.  They can score and they play hard on the defensive end.  Late in the game I was particularly impressed by them when consecutive UR inbound attempts went as follows:

    1 -- Knocked away by Korinchuk, out of bounds.
    2 -- Timeout UR to avoid 5 second violation.
    3 -- Knocked away by Foser, out of bounds.
    4 -- 5 second violation, RIT ball.

    Down ten with a minute to go, I was impressed by their effort (it could be said of all 5 guys on the floor at that time).

    I would be surprised if they finish below .500 in conference, even with the bad start.

    Gethers finished with 16 and 13, another big game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: formerbant10 on December 11, 2007, 10:45:56 PM
    Onyiruka was in foul trouble for a good part of the 2nd half.  There was no doubt that he was the best player on the floor.  Way too strong and athletic for RIT's bigs.  Ndubizu played a decent game, #34 (UofR) off the bench played much better than anticipated.  RIT's bigs didn't play as well as they did against Fisher.

    RIT ran sets very well, opened up the game and 2nd half with the same play going for a 3.  Their guards did a very good job pressing and trapping...that seemed to give UofR some trouble, especially in the 2nd half as Bamm pointed out.  Foster also did a very good job penetrating, he's going to be a pretty good player by the end of the year.

    RIT will be in every game even if they are overmatched talent-wise.  They play tough defense, mixed up hard man and a good 1-2-2 press.  Ran most of their sets well, struggled a little bit on a few where UofR scouted well.  But overall a very good job by RIT. 

    However, if UofR shoots better from the line (haven't seen a box score, but had to be near 50%), the game wouldn't have been close.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 11, 2007, 10:48:49 PM
    how bad does UR beat Fisher on friday night?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on December 12, 2007, 12:19:14 AM
    What I saw tonight was a UofR team that hadn't played since last Wed and looked rusty.  The entire team was in foul trouble it seemed.  I looked up at the clock and UofR had 9 fouls with 9:45 left in the second half.   RIT fouled a lot in the last 4 minutes or so, and rightly so, as UofR was terrible at the line.  That may be their Achilles this year.  JO played well offensively.  Uche was off a little but seemed to rebounded well.  And Millbrand (#34) has played far better in previous games.  He rarely misses that little jump hook but was off tonight.  I think the layoff was most telling on D, where RIT continually got to the rim off the dribble.  That surprised me.  Overall, gotta give credit to RIT for hanging tough, especially in light of the Hartwick debacle.  Down 16 at the half and they could have folded but they played tough. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on December 12, 2007, 01:16:37 AM
    Bamm- your impressions are the exact same as mine when I saw RIT against Clarkson.  Korinchak and Foster are tough freshman and Carson was vastly improved.  I haven't seen U of R but Plattsburgh (rated about 14th now and dropping) gave me the same impression.  I could not believe that they were that highly rated.  Maybe I'm expecting too much but the Hauben teams at UR of a few years ago were far better than Plattsburg to me.  Albeit my judgement of Plattsburgh lies in one game, whereas I saw Uof R multiple times. The surprising thing  is that I've heard that the guy that was heavily recruited by RIT was Dan Kelly and Korinchak was an added bonus.  I don't know what is up with Kelly, I haven't seen him mentionned...perhaps an injury?  While Korinchak is getting significant productive minutes as a freshman PG which I've always found McVean reluctant to do.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 12, 2007, 02:13:26 AM
    UofR shot a better FT% than RIT tonight. Enough with the "we would have won by more if we could just make our FT's."

    Shane Foster should drop the "e" in his first name a la the All-American at Vanderbilt, Shan (pronounced "Shane") Foster.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: slickyquick on December 12, 2007, 10:08:03 AM
    Plattsburgh has the same nucleus (basically) for the third season in a row with Williams, Gorham, and Miller. They took away Gibbs-Smith and inserted Hunt. They are very good. Haven't seen UofR play this year but I'm sure it would be a heck of a game. UofR always gives SUNYAC teams trouble. Not sure if UofR can match Plattsburgh's quickness, but again I haven't seen UofR play this year to know for sure.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 12, 2007, 10:14:27 AM
    Delaney has a good story up about Burton's injury.  Sounds pretty scary.

    http://theithacajournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/SPORTS/712120327/1006
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: formerbant10 on December 12, 2007, 10:42:16 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 12, 2007, 02:13:26 AM
    UofR shot a better FT% than RIT tonight. Enough with the "we would have won by more if we could just make our FT's."

    Free throws were virtually the same percentage.  One would expect the top-ranked team to shoot slightly better than 17-29.  That was the point I was making. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 12, 2007, 10:53:47 AM
    Quote from: formerbant10 on December 12, 2007, 10:42:16 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 12, 2007, 02:13:26 AM
    UofR shot a better FT% than RIT tonight. Enough with the "we would have won by more if we could just make our FT's."

    Free throws were virtually the same percentage.  One would expect the top-ranked team to shoot slightly better than 17-29.  That was the point I was making. 

    Understand your point, but that's not always the case. Look at how bad Memphis is at the charity stripe, yet the #2 team in the country.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 12, 2007, 11:27:04 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 12, 2007, 10:14:27 AM
    Delaney has a good story up about Burton's injury.  Sounds pretty scary.

    http://theithacajournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/SPORTS/712120327/1006

    Article is very true, in talking to people who have seen the tape he could have been seriously injured, they said the footage is very scary. Kneecap to the temple knocked him out cold before he hit the floor. He is very lucky to be in good health right now, could have been a much worse freak injury. I saw him yesterday on campus and doesn't look seriously injured at all.  He had a band-aid over the stitches on his noses. Surprisingly, no black eye on either eye.  Doesn't look like he even has a broken nose. Talked to him and seems to have no ill effects from the fall so he is a very lucky young man. Knowing Burton he wants to get back out there as soon as he can, the kid is ultra-competitive and i don't think he could stand sitting out. Hopefully for the Bombers he gets the mask and adjusts to it for Friday night's game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 12, 2007, 01:43:00 PM
    Great to hear Burton should be OK.  Knocked cold while still airborne?  Who hit him, Reggie Nelson?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on December 12, 2007, 01:49:11 PM
    Slicky - if I remember the game last year correctly, Pburgh did seem any quicker than UofR.  And while Pburgh returns their nucleus, so does UofR.  They lost a starting guard in Brackney and Snyder, a post off the bench.  Chmielowiec's and Juron's injuries have allowed other guards, including a freshman, to get great experience.  So I don't think quickness will be an issue if the two teams play again.  Rather, Onyiriuka making a better percentage of shots (6-15 last year, mostly on 4 foot bunnies), better handling of pressure and defending that half-court buzzer beater this time would be a good idea.   ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 12, 2007, 02:16:29 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 12, 2007, 01:43:00 PM
    Reggie Nelson?

    +k for the Predator reference:

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2Fmedia%2Fphoto%2F2006-10%2F25788742.jpg&hash=accb152986d4f4b7d73880eb4b1b71bf16e71978)

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orangeandbluehue.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2006%2F11%2Fpred2.JPG&hash=4addc6ac00032cdb45482bd748b260cc4c85e44a)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on December 12, 2007, 02:31:28 PM
    As long as we're doing movie pictures, what will Burton look like when he comes back?

    This:

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nba.com%2Fmedia%2Filgauskas_040412_320.jpg&hash=72c5f660c26e550e5b365e4ab0a0eb0bd7723c96)


    Or This:

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.guardian.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FFilm%2FNews%2FPictures%2F2000%2F01%2F13%2Fmask.GIF&hash=eb3ddc49ebef2622e7e620d669fb419131ef7d42)


    ?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on December 12, 2007, 03:33:14 PM
    I have a question that maybe someone here can answer.  How are officials assigned at the DIII level?  Are there "league" officials?  In other words,  is there a pool of Empire 8, or Liberty League officials that do just those games?  Or is it just a pool of officials that get assigned to games regardless of league?  Just curious...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on December 12, 2007, 03:43:25 PM
    Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on December 12, 2007, 01:49:11 PM
    Slicky - if I remember the game last year correctly, Pburgh did seem any quicker than UofR.  And while Pburgh returns their nucleus, so does UofR.  They lost a starting guard in Brackney and Snyder, a post off the bench.  Chmielowiec's and Juron's injuries have allowed other guards, including a freshman, to get great experience.  So I don't think quickness will be an issue if the two teams play again.  Rather, Onyiriuka making a better percentage of shots (6-15 last year, mostly on 4 foot bunnies), better handling of pressure and defending that half-court buzzer beater this time would be a good idea.   ;D

    Plattsburgh is also better.  They added 6'4 Wing Chris Ruiz from St. Agnes in the Bronx, 6'6" Errol Daniyan, an athletic big, and 6'9" 260 RJ Ponnesse, who gives them a wide body to lean on U of R's bigs.

    Gorham and Williams have both been named SUNYAC player of the week.  Gorham is averaging a double, double, and Williams is averaging 24ppg, and still isn't shooting well.

    Plattsburgh (now 6-0, avg margin +20) in their opener, beat Greensboro 92-59 (+33) a week later, Greensboro beat Guilford (ranked #6 in the polls) 71-66.  Don't know who's voting in the polls, but Plattsburgh isn't getting the respect they deserve for sure.

    If Brockport continues to play well, the NCAA may leave them in Rochester for the tournament, and they should be much quicker than U of R, plus Mychal Wilkes has emerged as a force this first semester, making the Eagles that much tougher to defend.  With a lineup of Harris, Harris, Wilkes, Williams, and Parish, with Maldonado coming off the bench they have 6 players who can score 20+ any night.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on December 12, 2007, 03:50:42 PM
    They are assigned by the ECAC Office.  I believe legendary D-I Ref Jim Burr is the assigner for Upstate NY.

    In general they are assigned within regions, although you can get a crew from an adjoining region. 

    When Potsdam played at Oswego, last month, the crew was out of Rochester, not Syracuse.  Potsdam gets crews from Syracuse, the North Country, & the Upper Hudson Valley, and the Utica Area. 
    It's not unusual to see Albany/Glens Falls refs do Plattsburgh games. 

    For example, for a Rochester/Brockport game, don't be surprised if you get a Buffalo crew that, and that crew may include some D-I officials that do Niagara or Canisius games.

    Back when Potsdam was constantly contending for national titles, in the '80's, we often had such top refs as Rich Paparo, Jim Burr, John & Din Cahill, all of whom have done the D-I Final Four, doing our games in Potsdam.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: slickyquick on December 12, 2007, 06:59:49 PM
    Jacketfan: To answer your question, there are no conference officials. It's the same as D1. In the NY area you will see the same refs doing SUNYAC, Liberty, Empire, and UAA games. Some of those same refs also do high school and junior college games as well.  In D1 they will do Big East and then MAAC, Patriot League, or Atlantic 10 games when there is no Big East games, but they aren't officially assigned to the Big East.

    Mike Kitts, a Syracuse native, does all types of games. You'll see him do an ACC one day and then a Big East the next. Same thing goes for Jim Burr or Ted Valentine.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 12, 2007, 09:46:31 PM
    Quote from: formerbant10 on December 11, 2007, 10:45:56 PM
    Onyiruka was in foul trouble for a good part of the 2nd half.  There was no doubt that he was the best player on the floor.  Way too strong and athletic for RIT's bigs.  Ndubizu played a decent game, #34 (UofR) off the bench played much better than anticipated.  RIT's bigs didn't play as well as they did against Fisher.

    Onyiriuka, in the years I've watched him, doesn't have much of a offensive game when he's facing the basket.  He's also never impressed me with his passing.  In years past, UR bigs have had a nice high-low game and could tear apart defenses with passing from the high-post.  Maybe he has improved here and I haven't seen it in my limited viewing.

    He is very strong, rebounds well, and has a nice little hook with his back to the basket.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: formerbant10 on December 12, 2007, 10:07:53 PM
    Not much reason for him to face up.  He had great position sealing his guys pretty much all night. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 12, 2007, 10:35:55 PM
    He's definatly no seth hauben, and can be neutrilized if you keep him off the boards.  But like Forbant said, theres not much need for him to have a great post finess game, he is a freak of an athlete for the D3 level.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on December 12, 2007, 10:52:14 PM
    While that may be true about JO, I think the difference this year is that Ndubizu has become a force on offense.  Add to that the play of Millbrand and UR has a three man rotation at the 4-5 that is hard to stop.  At least so far.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 13, 2007, 08:47:22 AM
    Quote from: formerbant10 on December 12, 2007, 10:07:53 PM
    Not much reason for him to face up.  He had great position sealing his guys pretty much all night. 

    Again, that's great.  But he was playing RIT, and undersized squad with no one close to him in terms of strength and size.

    The reason I said "it would be hard to convince me UR is truly the best team in the country" is because there are good teams with the size and strength to keep him out of position, to make him face the basket.

    I like watching UR, and I'll cheer for them in the NCAA's.  But I don't see the #1 team in the country when I watch them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 13, 2007, 12:26:37 PM
    I dont think there the #1 either, however, they havn't lost yet so I hope they get the respect until they go down.  Nice to see an East region team at the #1.  Bamm don't forget they are playing with out Chimelowitz however u spell it and Juron both key contributers.  I think dominiak and chimelowitz provide great threats from the wings, Juron a 4 year starting pg in a great system and 2 experienced bigs provides for a very solid team.  But, I think the non- Seth Hauben type of player is lacking, which is why I don't see them as the #1. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 13, 2007, 12:33:33 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 13, 2007, 12:26:37 PM
    I dont think there the #1 either, however, they havn't lost yet so I hope they get the respect until they go down.  Nice to see an East region team at the #1.  Bamm don't forget they are playing with out Chimelowitz however u spell it and Juron both key contributers.  I think dominiak and chimelowitz provide great threats from the wings, Juron a 4 year starting pg in a great system and 2 experienced bigs provides for a very solid team.  But, I think the non- Seth Hauben type of player is lacking, which is why I don't see them as the #1. 

    Juron played in the RIT game, but not very impressively.  He looked rusty, and RIT's defensive pressure forced a few turnovers out of him in the limited time he was on the floor.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on December 13, 2007, 01:01:56 PM
    Onyiriuka, in the years I've watched him, doesn't have much of a offensive game when he's facing the basket.  He's also never impressed me with his passing.  In years past, UR bigs have had a nice high-low game and could tear apart defenses with passing from the high-post.  Maybe he has improved here and I haven't seen it in my limited viewing.

    OK this is the main difficulty with posting rather than face to face conversation.  I really do not intend for this to sound "pissy", but I am interested in your response.  Would it surprise you to know that Onyiriuka is second on the UR team with 19 assists?  That is a number comparable to Gethers' 20, which leads RIT.  What I think is impressive about the number is that they come from the high post from a player that everyone knows won't take the foul line shot and thus pack it in agaist Ndubizu/Millbrand. 

    Just my two cents....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 13, 2007, 01:10:38 PM
    Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on December 13, 2007, 01:01:56 PM
    OK this is the main difficulty with posting rather than face to face conversation.  I really do not intend for this to sound "pissy", but I am interested in your response.  Would it surprise you to know that Onyiriuka is second on the UR team with 19 assists?  That is a number comparable to Gethers' 20, which leads RIT.  What I think is impressive about the number is that they come from the high post from a player that everyone knows won't take the foul line shot and thus pack it in agaist Ndubizu/Millbrand. 

    Just my two cents....

    That is interesting and a nice number for him.  Kind of silly to compare him to Gethers -- totally different players.

    I did notice that he quickly identifies when the defense collapses on him and he kicks it back out immediately -- and the UR guards are deadly from 20 feet.  Those passes will be there all season for him.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on December 13, 2007, 01:25:14 PM
    Agree, but I wasn't actually comparing the two players.  Simply pointing out that his numbers were comparable to RIT's leader.  And I only used RIT because it was the last game
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 13, 2007, 02:00:51 PM
    I dont think its too out of the ordinary, like you said UofR usually has excellent passers from the high post.  Although Onyrika in my opinion is not a good passer, the offense is structured in such a way that a lot of assists are inevitable.  UofR uses the high post with the low post key pushing the defender up for the lob pass better than anyone around here. Also, im sure some teams try to pressure onyreka at the high post to make his passes harder, leaving the low post more vulnerable.  If they dont come up and pressure, the passes come easy if if good angles arent there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bports on December 13, 2007, 04:50:27 PM
    Early CHASE seedings anyone?

    1 U of R
    2 Geneseo
    3 Brockport
    4 Naz
    5 RIT SJF ??
    6 SJF RIT ??
    7 Roberts
    8 Keuka (just cant seem to get out of the 8 hole year after year)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on December 13, 2007, 05:01:07 PM
    How do the pairings work?  Is it 1/8, 2/7 etc?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bports on December 13, 2007, 06:55:34 PM
    Yeah that is how they work and they do not reseed. Brockport has three tough games all on the road before the chase. They are at a div2 school in PA, at hamilton and at st lawrence. I would think if they were to win all three of those they should probably be the 2 seed.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 13, 2007, 07:03:10 PM
    Quote from: bports on December 13, 2007, 04:50:27 PM
    Early CHASE seedings anyone?

    1 U of R
    2 Geneseo
    3 Brockport
    4 Naz
    5 RIT SJF ??
    6 SJF RIT ??
    7 Roberts
    8 Keuka (just cant seem to get out of the 8 hole year after year)


    Geneseo won't get the 2 despite their record- they haven't played anyone. For those of you who say "o but they played NYU and beat them!" look at NYU, they graduated EVERYONE, UR will put a spanking on them this year that's for sure. They beat Alfred by 17, a team that SJFC just spanked by 30+.

    Seedings would be assumed to be...

    1-UR
    2-Brockport St.
    3-Naz
    4-Geneseo St.
    5-SJFC
    6-RIT
    7-Roberts
    8-Keuka


    ...and yes, the pairiings are  1v8, 2v7....And what are the host sites for the Chase this season?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 13, 2007, 08:15:26 PM
    Who decides who gets what seed?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on December 14, 2007, 12:08:31 PM
    No offense E8ballfan, but if your telling me an undefeated Geneseo team is going to get a 4 seed in the Chase then your out of your freakin mind!!  Who cares that Fisher beat Alfred by 30 and Genseo beat them by 17??  Didn't Geneseo BEAT Fisher??!  Why would Naz be seeded above them?  Under your line of thinking Naz beat Oneonta by 10 and New Paltz by 16...Geneseo beat Oneonta by 28 and NP by 21 so shouldn't they be seeded above Naz??  Get real!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 14, 2007, 04:02:52 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 13, 2007, 08:15:26 PM
    Who decides who gets what seed?

    Caz, I haven't answered this because I have no idea.  Obviously there is a committee of some sort, but I have no idea who is on it.  Every year I get a little more annoyed that I don't know this.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 14, 2007, 04:41:08 PM
    Quote from: bamm on December 14, 2007, 04:02:52 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 13, 2007, 08:15:26 PM
    Who decides who gets what seed?

    Caz, I haven't answered this because I have no idea.  Obviously there is a committee of some sort, but I have no idea who is on it.  Every year I get a little more annoyed that I don't know this.

    I like to make believe it's the Stonecutters, one of the many key decisions they make, along with keeping the metric system down, robbing cave fish of their sight and making Steve Guttenberg a star.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bports on December 14, 2007, 04:41:39 PM
    I believe there is a dinner a night or two before the tourney and the coaches vote on it?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 14, 2007, 04:50:33 PM
    Out of curiosity, how high is the local interest in the Chase Tourney?  Do the games draw pretty good attendance?  Any media coverage of the event?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 14, 2007, 06:20:50 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 14, 2007, 04:50:33 PM
    Out of curiosity, how high is the local interest in the Chase Tourney?  Do the games draw pretty good attendance?  Any media coverage of the event?

    Plenty of coverage in the Democrat and Chronicle.  The championship is generally covered by all of the local news channels, and the games in the winners bracket always draw a good crowd -- definitely much more than your average local D3 contest.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 14, 2007, 09:48:51 PM
    Bombers drop a close one to St. Lawrence in OT, 85-81. Nice effort by the Bombers without Burton, who missed the game due to the injury sustained in the Stevens game. Jeff Bostic with 15 and 10, Matt Ruger with 17 off the bench, and a host of Bombers with 10 or 11 points. St. Lawrence hits a three in the waning seconds to force the extra session. It's too bad that Ithaca is hurting any chance at an at-large bid with these early season losses to sub-par teams. It would have been nice to see Ithaca at full strength in all their games this year but it hasn't gone their way. Looks like it's going to be E8 Tourney Championship or bust with respect to the NCAA's.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 14, 2007, 10:12:35 PM
    k razor, you got me a little there on the common opponents w-l, pt margin...but let's look at this. the chase is going to be real deep this year, w/#1 UR, top 20 Brockport, and Naz, a team receiving votes in the top25 polls. I just think that Geneseo hasn't played anyone yet this season and at this point, they would be the 4 seed, IMO.

    However, there are still many games to be played before the chase seedings are even created, so we will see.

    ...and just saw the UR-SJFC boxscore, how does Ndbizu only put up 2 shots all game? Anyone who went to the game got any details on the overall game?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 14, 2007, 10:12:56 PM
    Ithaca loses at home to St. Lawrence in overtime, final score 85-81. Ithaca holds two point lead at the half fuled by great play off the bench from Matt Ruger who had some big threes to give Ithaca the lead. Ithaca carries lead until St. Lawrence takes two point lead with 2:28 to play in regulation. Bombers regain lead but a double clutch three pointer by Andy Hoercher with nine seconds left ties the game at 72. This shot was complete luck, he doubled pumped and leaned in to draw contact and got nothing and threw up a pray that was answered.

    Important to note, Bombers played with out Burton. At about the six minute mark or a little under in the second half, Sean Leahy subbed out of the game and didn't return to action. He sat at the end of the bench with the trainers, not sure what happened to him but he stayed their for the rest of the game. A couple minutes later Scott Ruffrage took a hard hit to the face on the defensive glass and was down on the floor. He left the game and didn't return either. He also sat with the trainers as they checked out his eye area which was bleeding. Ruffrage left the floor and returned  to the bench in street clothes before overtime started.

    Bombers going into Tom Brown to start overtime for a And 1 and he puts them up three. Shortly after Brendan Rogers fouled out of the game with 4:26 left to play leaving Ithaca with no point gaurds. Freshman Chris Cruz game into overtime for his first action of the day. Ruger took over the ball handling duties and everyone played hard but Ithaca couldn't pull it out. Clutch free throwing shooting from St. Lawrence to end overtime.

    Great play from Josh Sharlow, kid had a huge game for St. Lawrence 29 points, 4-7 from three and 9-10 from the charity stripe. However, wasn't impressed by St. Lawrence big men, really didn't do anything on offense but they out rebounded Ithaca by 8. Ithaca also missed ten foul shots to SLU's 5. The team played hard, a really tough loss to end first semester, but i feel they are much better than their 4-3 record. Hopefully they will grow from this game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on December 14, 2007, 10:46:34 PM
    Ndubizu took 2 shots mostly because he didn't need to take more.  Dominiak and Onyiriuka had a lot of good looks.  Plus Uche was in a little foul trouble and Millbrand was playing pretty well.

    In fact, a Millbrand steal, 3/4 court drive and allyoop to Onyiriuka in the second half pretty much brought the house down.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on December 14, 2007, 11:04:10 PM
    Well, I just looked at the box score myself and noticed that Uche played 27 minutes.  So, foul trouble really wasn't a factor.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on December 15, 2007, 12:20:09 PM
    Uche didnt need to shoot, and also was defended pretty well by Fisher.  Fisher hung tight until about the seven minute mark in the first half.  Fisher is a team that doesnt really show much heart or emotion.  They are just missing thatg one high energy emotional player.  Ozell plays very hard and with some emotion.  At one point in the game after Dominiak hit a couple 3's in a row then Ozell came down and hit one and screamed "let me guard him" speaking of Dominiak, who just killed Neumann.  On the offensive end Neumann was no threat putting up a goose egg.  Fisher should start Franklin.  WPI comes to town after break another tough team for them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bports on December 15, 2007, 12:42:25 PM
    Is fisher better than there 3-4 record? Looking at there boxscore from last night it looks like they are having a tough time making shots. Two of there three wins are against teams that are a combined 1-16. On the other hand two of ther losses are against ranked teams. I realize smalt is out of the lineup but thats really no excuse as a number of teams fight through injuries etc.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 15, 2007, 01:18:16 PM
    Fisher is better than their record, there losses are to solid teams sans hobart.  However, they are only an average team at this point with a lot of growing to do. They will be a totally different team when isiah smalt returns later in the year.  It will be a 100% turnaround when he is back to 100%.  They still wont be as good as UofR, Bport, or Plattsburgh, but will atleast be able to make it a game and have a shot at winning.  With Smalt there record would be 5-2 with losses to stevens and uofr. Yeah you can say other teams are missing players too, but Fisher really needs the post presence, its the position that they have the least depth at.  Hopefully these smackdowns will help later on in the season and get the team back down to earth to stop living on the high's of the past few seasons when they had more talent.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 15, 2007, 04:36:06 PM
    Caught the RIT/D'Youville game last night.  D'Youville is pretty bad, to put it simply.   A lot of open shots for the Tigers, a lot of easy layups. 

    Carson had 25 and 9.  Gethers 25 and 13. 

    Tigers are playing Oswego as I type this.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on December 16, 2007, 06:12:09 PM
    Quote from: bamm on December 15, 2007, 04:36:06 PM
    Caught the RIT/D'Youville game last night.  D'Youville is pretty bad, to put it simply.   A lot of open shots for the Tigers, a lot of easy layups. 

    Carson had 25 and 9.  Gethers 25 and 13. 

    Tigers are playing Oswego as I type this.



    Oswego dumped them pretty easily. RIT didn't look that good.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 16, 2007, 08:33:23 PM
    Quote from: Tags on December 16, 2007, 06:12:09 PM
    Quote from: bamm on December 15, 2007, 04:36:06 PM
    Caught the RIT/D'Youville game last night.  D'Youville is pretty bad, to put it simply.   A lot of open shots for the Tigers, a lot of easy layups. 

    Carson had 25 and 9.  Gethers 25 and 13. 

    Tigers are playing Oswego as I type this.



    Oswego dumped them pretty easily. RIT didn't look that good.

    I doubt you were there.  It was tied at the half and it was 64-61 with about five minutes to go.

    Other than that, yeah -- you're right on. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on December 16, 2007, 09:17:51 PM
    Quote from: bamm on December 16, 2007, 08:33:23 PM
    Quote from: Tags on December 16, 2007, 06:12:09 PM
    Quote from: bamm on December 15, 2007, 04:36:06 PM
    Caught the RIT/D'Youville game last night.  D'Youville is pretty bad, to put it simply.   A lot of open shots for the Tigers, a lot of easy layups. 

    Carson had 25 and 9.  Gethers 25 and 13. 

    Tigers are playing Oswego as I type this.



    Oswego dumped them pretty easily. RIT didn't look that good.

    I doubt you were there.  It was tied at the half and it was 64-61 with about five minutes to go.

    Other than that, yeah -- you're right on. 

    I doubt you have any idea what you're talking about --- other than that, good point.
    Next time I go to a game I'll give you a call so you know I'm there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 17, 2007, 08:47:59 AM
    Quote from: Tags on December 16, 2007, 09:17:51 PM
    Quote from: bamm on December 16, 2007, 08:33:23 PM
    Quote from: Tags on December 16, 2007, 06:12:09 PM
    Quote from: bamm on December 15, 2007, 04:36:06 PM
    Caught the RIT/D'Youville game last night.  D'Youville is pretty bad, to put it simply.   A lot of open shots for the Tigers, a lot of easy layups. 

    Carson had 25 and 9.  Gethers 25 and 13. 

    Tigers are playing Oswego as I type this.


    Oswego dumped them pretty easily. RIT didn't look that good.

    I doubt you were there.  It was tied at the half and it was 64-61 with about five minutes to go.

    Other than that, yeah -- you're right on. 

    I doubt you have any idea what you're talking about --- other than that, good point.
    Next time I go to a game I'll give you a call so you know I'm there.

    It would just be nice if you at least checked a play-by-play record, or read a recap before you post.  It keeps you from making completely inaccurate statements.  Consider that a tip for next time.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 17, 2007, 01:18:35 PM
    wow- first time this season on the bball boards and i walk into this argument?

    Sheesh--
    whats up tags!

    Happy holidays to you and yours!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on December 17, 2007, 08:04:35 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 17, 2007, 01:18:35 PM
    wow- first time this season on the bball boards and i walk into this argument?

    Sheesh--
    whats up tags!

    Happy holidays to you and yours!

    Hey '91, good to see you on the hoops board - I'm sure we'll talk beforehand, but if we don't, I hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas as well :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on December 17, 2007, 08:07:24 PM
    Quote from: bamm on December 17, 2007, 08:47:59 AM
    It would just be nice if you at least checked a play-by-play record, or read a recap before you post.  It keeps you from making completely inaccurate statements.  Consider that a tip for next time.

    I'd rather just drive over to the game, but I'll keep it in mind for later.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on December 20, 2007, 05:31:00 AM
    Alfred, still on the hunt for its first win, will be at the St. John Fisher Tournament Dec. 29-30, taking on first Cazenovia and then Worcester. Do the Saxons, 78-43 losers to Fisher at McLane Center, have a chance, perhaps, against Caz?

    Go Saxons!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 20, 2007, 09:35:34 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on December 20, 2007, 05:31:00 AM
    Alfred, still on the hunt for its first win, will be at the St. John Fisher Tournament Dec. 29-30, taking on first Cazenovia and then Worcester. Do the Saxons, 78-43 losers to Fisher at McLane Center, have a chance, perhaps, against Caz?

    Go Saxons!


    I'm sure Alfred could beat me.  They could have up to five guys on the court, plus I'm slow and an extremely poor defender.  I'm surprised the AU coaches haven't called me to schedule a game.

    Honestly though, CazTM would like to state that he in no way endorses "Caz College" or its completely illegitimate attempts to play sports-like substances.  CazTM would like JoseQ, when he finds the time, to draw up a cease and desist letter for these ivory tower reprobates that are tarnishing an otherwise fine nickname.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 20, 2007, 11:18:52 AM
    I'd help you out Caz but I cannot even believe Cazenovia's athletic department still exists after the Bomber baseball team hung a 30 spot on them a few years ago.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on December 20, 2007, 10:38:38 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on December 20, 2007, 05:31:00 AM
    Alfred, still on the hunt for its first win, will be at the St. John Fisher Tournament Dec. 29-30, taking on first Cazenovia and then Worcester. Do the Saxons, 78-43 losers to Fisher at McLane Center, have a chance, perhaps, against Caz?

    Go Saxons!


    Pep, are you venturing up here for the game?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on December 21, 2007, 05:48:34 PM
    AU Pep- make the trip if you can because AU does have a chance against Caz the college (against Caz the poster they'd be in trouble!!) It all comes down to AU bigs versus Caz the college guards.  In particular a 6'3" lefty named Latendress (or something like that).  He's by far the best player on their team and they live and die by him.  Having seen both teams play and this being a a neutral court (Latendress gets "protected" at home) I'd say it was close to a dead heat.  Out on a limb- go see the game- AU in a squeeker because they've played in that gym before and I doubt that Caz the college has in recent years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 22, 2007, 11:32:13 AM
    Quote from: with age comes? on December 21, 2007, 05:48:34 PM
    AU Pep- make the trip if you can because AU does have a chance against Caz the college (against Caz the poster they'd be in trouble!!) It all comes down to AU bigs versus Caz the college guards.  In particular a 6'3" lefty named Latendress (or something like that).  He's by far the best player on their team and they live and die by him.  Having seen both teams play and this being a a neutral court (Latendress gets "protected" at home) I'd say it was close to a dead heat.  Out on a limb- go see the game- AU in a squeeker because they've played in that gym before and I doubt that Caz the college has in recent years.

    +K for your holiday season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 22, 2007, 06:36:03 PM
    If anyone watches the Cuse/Cornell game tonight, Cornell seven footer Jeff Foote is former RIT Tiger Jesse Foote's brother.

    Merry Christmas to all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 22, 2007, 08:25:57 PM
    It's the holiday season, I am bored, and I am sure every coach in the e8 has their own 'wish list' for what they'd like for their team. What do you guys think every coach is asking for this Christmas?!?


    Alfred - A win.
    Elmira - To get that big win (they almost had Stevens, Uitca)
    Hartwick - For Jan Coco's health...if he goes down that could be bad for them.
    Ithaca - For Burton to come back healthy.
    Naz - For their key players to remain healthy.
    RIT - To get more league wins. They dug themselves quite the hole to start the conference season.
    Fisher - For Smalt to come back healthy. For Justin Beigel to learn how to stay out of foul trouble.
    Stevens Tech - To hope that they can stay hot.
    Utica - To win the close games. Lost to RIT and Naz in nail biters.

    Yeah, there are some themes here. But just wondering anyone elses thoughts?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on December 22, 2007, 10:12:19 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on December 22, 2007, 08:25:57 PM
    It's the holiday season, I am bored, and I am sure every coach in the e8 has their own 'wish list' for what they'd like for their team. What do you guys think every coach is asking for this Christmas?!?


    Alfred - A win.
    Elmira - To get that big win (they almost had Stevens, Uitca)
    Hartwick - For Jan Coco's health...if he goes down that could be bad for them.
    Ithaca - For Burton to come back healthy.
    Naz - For their key players to remain healthy.
    RIT - To get more league wins. They dug themselves quite the hole to start the conference season.
    Fisher - For Smalt to come back healthy. For Justin Beigel to learn how to stay out of foul trouble.
    Stevens Tech - To hope that they can stay hot.
    Utica - To win the close games. Lost to RIT and Naz in nail biters.

    Yeah, there are some themes here. But just wondering anyone elses thoughts?

    My wish for Alfred is a new coach, and for the E8 — a new champ. I'd actually like that to be Ithaca, Stevens is new and it would suck if they win the whole shot this year. Utica's been there, almost, before and the other Rochester schools, well, eh. Hartwick and Elmira, they don't get any wishes — Wick gets nothing, Elmira gets coal.

    How's that for some holiday humbug?

    Actually, to all those great posters out there, have a great holiday, with at least one day off work. It'll be interesting to see how this thing pans out in 2008.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on December 27, 2007, 12:38:33 PM
    Quote from: Tags on December 20, 2007, 10:38:38 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on December 20, 2007, 05:31:00 AM
    Alfred, still on the hunt for its first win, will be at the St. John Fisher Tournament Dec. 29-30, taking on first Cazenovia and then Worcester. Do the Saxons, 78-43 losers to Fisher at McLane Center, have a chance, perhaps, against Caz?

    Go Saxons!


    Pep, are you venturing up here for the game?

    Tags, Pep will be in North Carolina with Pep Jr. In hindsight, Pep drove the fam to Kentucky a few years back only to see Pep Jr. sit on the bench during two agonizing AU losses, two of 22 losses that particular season. Pep has patriarchal priorities.  ;)

    Incidentally, Pep Jr. suffered injury during the Christmas Night open gym at A-A. Thus, Pep Jr. will need medical treatment when he arrives back home in Charlotte, NC  :(

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on December 27, 2007, 12:43:28 PM
    Quote from: with age comes? on December 21, 2007, 05:48:34 PM
    AU Pep- make the trip if you can because AU does have a chance against Caz the college (against Caz the poster they'd be in trouble!!) It all comes down to AU bigs versus Caz the college guards.  In particular a 6'3" lefty named Latendress (or something like that).  He's by far the best player on their team and they live and die by him.  Having seen both teams play and this being a a neutral court (Latendress gets "protected" at home) I'd say it was close to a dead heat.  Out on a limb- go see the game- AU in a squeeker because they've played in that gym before and I doubt that Caz the college has in recent years.

    Pep can't make the trip.... Pep would like to see AU play as Pep has befriended frosh Ellis Walsh at the library. Perhaps the Saxons can pull out a win!

    Did Caz Bombers play hoops at IC? perhaps with JoseQ?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 27, 2007, 03:22:40 PM
    Nope, I haven't been a varsity athlete since high school.  I was on the golf team in those days.

    (silence)

    I'll show myself out.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 28, 2007, 12:37:42 AM
    Basketball action resumes tomorrow and the Bombers head to Florida for a pair of games. Ithaca is down in a tourney in Daytona Beach, nice tournament for the Bombers, hopefully everyone is healthy and still in shape. In a little less than 12 hours Ithaca will face Colby. Colby last played December 8th vs. Bowdoin and got their first loss (6-1). It will be interesting to see how the three week lay-off will affect them.

    Doesn't seem like Colby has played any team of note from their area, or been tested really. Also interesting is the fact that in the games they won they scored 80 plus points and when held below 80 (75) they lost. They are scoring 91 points per game. So just like Ithaca they are trying to go out and score. They are shooting about 43% but letting opponents shoot 45%. I hope Ithaca comes out plays a little defense and holds them under 80. Should be an exciting offensive game and has the potential to be very high scoring from looking at Colby's numbers. I hope to catch it online and give some updates. Hopefully the Bombers can end 2007 on a two game win streak.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 28, 2007, 08:48:46 AM
    Any word on whether Burton will play?

    Unfortunately, I can't get away this morning and get to the game.  But I am thinking about tuning in on Embry Riddle's pay per view site.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 28, 2007, 10:09:42 AM
    I'm headed out to the game in a few minutes.  Sounds like good seats are quite available.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 28, 2007, 11:59:01 AM
    Ithaca leads 56-39 at the intermission. Burton returns and leads the way with five 3s. Leahy and Bostic also playing well as Ithaca is running Colby and talking advantage of their lack of defense. Hopefully the Bombers will keep it on them and finish them off instead of letting them hang around and make it close.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 28, 2007, 12:10:42 PM
    Tom Brown and Bostic both pick up their fourth fouls early in the second half and Ithaca will have to go with Leahy at the four and Kail at the five for a while. They should still be able to hold this lead. Going to be interesting to see what line-ups Coach Mullins uses until about the five minute mark, when Brown and Bostic go back in.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 28, 2007, 12:27:42 PM
    81-77 Ithaca leads with about 7 left to play. Colby is back in the game. Tom Brown got a tech for saying a curseword i believe and the refs have really slowed Ithaca's game down.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 28, 2007, 12:40:56 PM
    Nice win for Big Blue.  Burton is an absolutely electric player.  He is the most efficient guard I have seen at the D3 level.  No wasted motion, and seems to barely break a sweat while dogging his opponent.  It's incredible how much better IC is with Burton.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on December 28, 2007, 01:55:35 PM
    When's the next E8TV game?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 28, 2007, 02:07:09 PM
    Quote from: maxpower on December 28, 2007, 01:55:35 PM
    When's the next E8TV game?

    http://www.empire8.tv/

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 28, 2007, 02:30:34 PM
    MP,

    All the IC home games are free on ICTV.

    Tomorrow's game is available through Embry Riddle's PPV but it ain't worth the $7.  It was basically just a camera at the top of the bleacher panning from half to half.  There was also some guy playing with his infant right next to the microphone.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 28, 2007, 02:56:36 PM
    Ithaca wins 101-91. Sean Burton leads the way with 33 on 7-9 from deep. Good win for the Bombers and nice to see how good they are when everyone is healthy and playing. Burton had the 33 with the mask on to protect his nose, maybe the new Rip Hamilton.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 28, 2007, 03:39:15 PM
    Maybe the highest scoring game I've ever attended on any college level.  I gotta agree with the thoughts on Burton, what a player.  Colby made some nice halftime adjustments to turn what could have been a 30+ point laugher into a really tight game down the stretch.  In the first half Colby gave up about a thousand easy baskets and in the second half Ithaca kinda did the same.

    Stopping ball in transition and not picking up silly touch and over the back fouls are the biggest things I think this Ithaca team has to work on.  #11 Mac Simpson and #32 Adam Choice did work for the White Mules.  As always one can't help but think Bostic should dominate on this level with his athleticism but sometimes he gets outworked; and you can't do a whole lot from the bench with 4 fouls.  Leahy and Scanlon in particular played very solid games today.

    EDIT: Yeeeesh, do we need to let Embry-Riddle's stat crew (one person, btw) know what an "assist" is?  They only credited IC with 14 assists on 35 made field goals and Burton with just 3.  I counted 7 at least just for him and I figure the team shoulda had 20 easy.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on December 28, 2007, 03:44:19 PM
    I'm just so grateful that Burton is allright.  Like I said in a previous post he is an electrifying player who is just plain fun to watch.  From what I've heard about the "Stevens" bump,  it could have been a lot worse than missing a couple of games. And to get 33 in your return is quite a statement.  Hopefully the bombers can take the title tomorrow and make upstate NY proud!!        P.S. Caz Bomber - U don't have to let yourself out (you provide way too much entertainment!!)  Gr8! Post.     And Bamm thanks for the tidbit on Jesse's bro down at Cornell!!!                                           
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 28, 2007, 04:44:50 PM
    Honestly, who shoots 7-9 from 3pt range? I don't think Mike McGee even did that in his career of shooting wide open 3's for Fisher. And knowing where Burton usually shoots them from makes it even more impressive; his toes are rarely close to he arc.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 29, 2007, 12:22:07 AM
    Ripon knocks off St. Lawrence 94-79. Looks like tomorrow will be a tough game for the Bombers. Ripon recently held a lead late in the second half to the #3 team in the country. Looking forward to this game hopefully Ithaca can carry over from today's performance.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on December 29, 2007, 08:55:36 AM
    "and seems to barely break a sweat while dogging his opponent"

    In a 101-91 college game I would venture a guess that no one broke a sweat dogging their opponent
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 29, 2007, 02:59:34 PM
    Ithaca trails Ripon at half, 37-27. Special thanks to Caz for the update. Apparently, Ithaca can't throw it in the ocean this game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 29, 2007, 03:33:40 PM
    Bombers rallying. Ripon lead down to three, 60-57, just under 8 mins left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cadillac on December 29, 2007, 04:06:47 PM
    Smalt's back for Fisher this weekend.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 29, 2007, 06:34:18 PM
    Tough game, Ripon won 79-71, Ithaca couldn't really make a shot the whole way.  Burton in particular struggled with his touch all day (3-15, 2-9 from deep); his discomfort wearing the Rip Hamilton mask was obvious (taking it off and chucking it across the court at the IC bench at one point before later re-attaching it.).  Ithaca's inability to hit threes or free throws today cost them this one along with poor defense on several Ripon inbounds under the basket.

    Leahy had 22 pts and 9 reb, Louis Kail had one of his best games as a Bomber with 17 and 6.  Burton still finished with 13 pts and 6 assists while an otherwise ineffective Bostic grabbed 12 rebounds.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on December 29, 2007, 08:57:42 PM
    Alfred 78-72 over Caz.  Sounds like Pep should have made the trip
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 30, 2007, 01:47:35 PM
    Big win for Fisher last night!!

    WPI is a solid team year in and year out and that may be a turning point for Fisher this year. Smalt being back is a huge lift, and things may be comming together.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 30, 2007, 10:15:15 PM
    The loss to Ripon reinforces Ithaca still has a ways to go if they want to make it to the NCAA tournament.  Sounds like Burtons big night against colby may have took too much energy out of him for the Ripon game.  How good did Ripon look? top 25 caliber?

    Sjfcards, big win indeed.  Definatly a different team with Smalt on the floor. WPI was solid and previously ranked in the top 25.  Fisher also still has a ways to go, but I think they will come together similarly to last year.  Smalt looked very good for his first game back, ozell is still playing strong.  Matt Newman needs to start playing better and they are going to need more from Mark Bearden.  Its going to be a team peaking at the end of the season for sure, if they will have enough to win the e8 tourny, to early to tell.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: lileyes on December 31, 2007, 10:30:37 AM
    article on burton in the utica od....

    http://www.uticaod.com/sports/x1925651944
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 31, 2007, 01:52:39 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 30, 2007, 10:15:15 PM
    The loss to Ripon reinforces Ithaca still has a ways to go if they want to make it to the NCAA tournament.  Sounds like Burtons big night against colby may have took too much energy out of him for the Ripon game.  How good did Ripon look? top 25 caliber?


    With non-conference L's to St. Lawrence, Potsdam and Ripon, the only way into the dance for the Bombers will be via the auto bid given to the E8 Tourney champ. As far as whether or not they have a "long way to go" is another question. Ithaca led for a majority of the game against the consensus top team in the league (Stevens) at their place and did so without the best player in the conference to date. Additionally, IC lost to the Larries in OT without Burton, and lost to Potsdam without Bostic who is still trying to round his game into form. The game against Ripon was the first time that IC lost to anyone when Burton and Bostic were available for an entire game.

    As a team, I think Ithaca was in foul trouble from the second they stepped off the plane in Florida. Brown and Bostic both averaged 21 minutes/game down in Florida and spent each game in foul trouble. I'm not questioning the officiating but I don't think the Bombers adjusted to the difference in how the game was called down South (note: this is not the same argument that several Utica fans make that the officiating is markedly different in Rochester than it is in Central New York). I'm simply saying that I have a feeling that Brown and Bostic will not be in that much foul trouble once conference play gets into full swing.

    Good win for Fisher vs WPI. Having another serviceable big will help Fisher. I'm still of the opinion that Smalt is an above average player, and not very good/excellent as some think, but just to have an additional five fouls to use, as well as Smalt's experience, will help Fisher quite a bit. However, you know the Fisher swagger may be waning a bit when the Cardinal faithful is very pumped about a win at home against a team that is usually out of the NCAA's pretty early in the proceedings. In years past, Fisher would've won that game by 10-15 pts and nobody would have thought twice about it.

    Good tourney win for Naz at the York tourney, too. Actually showed some grit for once in rallying from a double-digit halftime deficit in the championship game. Looks like it'll be a two-horse race for POY between Corey McAdam and Burton.

    Predictions for the final E8 standings:

    1) Stevens
    2) Ithaca
    3) Fisher
    4) Nazareth
    5) RIT
    6) Utica
    7) Hartwick
    8 ) Elmira
    9) Alfred

    Happy New Year to all the E8 posters!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 01, 2008, 09:19:44 AM
    Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on December 29, 2007, 08:57:42 PM
    Alfred 78-72 over Caz.  Sounds like Pep should have made the trip

    Pep was seeing the sights in North Carolina....from Charlotte to Calabash to Roanoke Island near Nags Head.

    Congrats to the young Saxons!

    And Happy New Year to the E8 Nation!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on January 01, 2008, 10:46:06 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 01, 2008, 09:19:44 AM
    And Happy New Year to the E8 Nation!

    Pep, does that automatically carry over to the hardwood boards? I think we've got to get a lot more going in here if that is the case...

    Sorry I missed you on Christmas, once again I fell victim to being exceedingly lazy and driving past the Hornell exit on my way back up to Rochester.

    Happy New Year +k
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 02, 2008, 07:59:43 AM
    Stevens makes the RIT/Naz trip this weekend, playing the Tigers on Friday and the Golden Flyers on Saturday.  Should give us a good indication of exactly how dominant this Stevens' team is. 

    The games will be both teams' last chance to impress before the Chase.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 02, 2008, 10:54:48 AM
    I think, if I can read a schedule correctly, that this is the first road trip for the Ducks in the new conference.  I would have to say that they'll earn a split this weekend.  Not sure which team will get them, but RIT and Naz are both pretty quality opponents so the back to back might be tough.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2008, 11:59:13 AM
    hey guys,
    been on the football boards all fall---
    im a little suprised that this is a down year for fisher after hearing a ton last year on how solid they were coming back.
    I make no bones about it- im not a bb guy- im just a proud alum and football nut- but this season suprises me---
    I have read about the injuries and the rise of other teams- but is their something else?
    Or is it just one of those things--just a down year?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 02, 2008, 12:07:27 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2008, 11:59:13 AMbut is their something else?

    Unrealistic Fisher hoop fans that seen the world through rose cardinal colored glasses.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2008, 12:09:34 PM
    jose- im not wearing any glasses-
    esp for bball- just notice that this season is a little less than advertised


    though i will tell ya that mrs 91 hooked me up with new fisher sweats to replace the ones from 87!!

    so i guess im looking at it through new sweats...............instead of 20 yr old fisher soccer warm up sweats.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on January 02, 2008, 12:36:26 PM
    Yuck.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2008, 12:42:06 PM
    max- they held up pretty well all things considered!

    now when i get back next fall ill be decked out in my new apparel!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 02, 2008, 02:40:22 PM
    Fisheralum,  Its a combination of injuries, lack of depth, lack of leadership and lack of chemistry. The rest of the league has gotten older and better with the addition of Stevens. Fisher took a while to get it together last year as well.  I think they will come together and peak at the right time, as long as everyones healthy they will be in good shape to win the e8 tourny. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2008, 02:44:51 PM
    fisherdyn- sounds like a lot to get together in a short span- but i do hope they can do it.

    always want the alma mater doing well!

    all i know is what i read on these posts, whereas i have seen the fb team firsthand- so i will take your word for it.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 02, 2008, 03:01:39 PM
    Yeah we'll see, definatly a lot more to do than in years past.  I know this is off topic but, did you see the Fisher vs. Mount U. game? Did Fisher not finish or get any breaks or was Mount that much better?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2008, 03:15:38 PM
    That was one road trip that i didnt make. Listened to it on the net.
    Offense couldnt capitalize on key opportunities and MUC was just a better team.
    Great season though- great group of seniors and great group of seniors parents!
    Had a LOT of fun watching this season.
    Hope it continues!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 02, 2008, 03:49:47 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 02, 2008, 02:40:22 PM
    Fisheralum,  Its a combination of injuries, lack of depth, lack of leadership and lack of chemistry. The rest of the league has gotten older and better with the addition of Stevens. Fisher took a while to get it together last year as well.  I think they will come together and peak at the right time, as long as everyones healthy they will be in good shape to win the e8 tourny. 

    Fisher, literally and perhaps figuratively, peaked when they played at McLane Center, a 78-43 win over the Saxons. When teams visit McLane Center, they play at the highest elevation anywhere on New York State's college campuses. Alfred's got ups.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2008, 03:55:30 PM
    Alfred does have the elevation, but you couldnt pay me to go to Hartwick and climb those hills to go to class everyday- let alone walk down to the local nightlife and then climb your way back...

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 02, 2008, 04:21:29 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2008, 03:55:30 PM
    let alone walk down to the local nightlife and then climb your way back...

    Q's freshman year at IC, they closed the hill due to snow while I was downtown at the bars. 

    It was like the third time I had seen snow in my whole life.

    Talk about reality.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 03, 2008, 06:13:54 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 02, 2008, 03:55:30 PM
    Alfred does have the elevation, but you couldnt pay me to go to Hartwick and climb those hills to go to class everyday- let alone walk down to the local nightlife and then climb your way back...



    After his first visit to the Hartwick campus for a football game, Pep wondered why the former "Warriors" hadn't been renamed the "Mountain Goats." But then, Hawks can fly around campus, Pep surmises.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 03, 2008, 07:00:10 PM
    Quick note from last night, visiting Geneseo knocked off Elmira, 71-59. I know there are no moral victories but that's another decent showing by Elmira. The Soaring Eagles were slow out of the gate and that contributed to a 16 point halftime deficit. However, Elmira outscored Geneseo by a score of 35-31 in the second half, doing so with Geneseo's starters in there most of the time. Looks like Elmira may not be the laughingstock of this league after all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on January 03, 2008, 09:18:14 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 02, 2008, 03:01:39 PM
    Yeah we'll see, definatly a lot more to do than in years past.  I know this is off topic but, did you see the Fisher vs. Mount U. game? Did Fisher not finish or get any breaks or was Mount that much better?

    MUC was that much better.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 04, 2008, 11:45:46 AM
    Predictions for this weekend's scores. I have a feeling that I'm going to hit one on the head this weekend:

    FRIDAY

    UTICA over Elmira, 70-61. Though early, a "must win" for the Pios.
    Ithaca rips HARTWICK, 86-66. IC can stop Coco--not enough elsewhere for 'Wick.
    NAZARETH trounces Alfred, 83-57. Alfred's terrible and Naz is good.
    Stevens nips RIT, 73-69. RIT has made a habit of losing these close ones in the E8.

    SATURDAY

    HARTWICK over Elmira, 68-53. Hartwick shows up for this one--too much Coco.
    NAZARETH upsets Stevens, 77-72. Game of the weekend. Too much McAdam bros.
    Ithaca in a close one over UTICA, 73-67. Game worries me. A lot on the line for UC.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 04, 2008, 02:13:53 PM
    Predictions for this weekend's scores.

    FRIDAY

    Utica over Elmira 70-61 agreed with gobombers
    Ithaca over Hartwick 68-63 in a very tight game, hartwick plays well at home but will let up at the end.
    NAZARETH trounces Alfred, 83-57. Alfred's terrible and Naz is good. couldnt have said it better
    Stevens nips RIT, 73-69. RIT has made a habit of losing these close ones in the E8. agreed as well

    SATURDAY

    HARTWICK over Elmira, 68-60.
    NAZARETH beats Stevens, 77-72. Game of the weekend. Not necessarily an upset in my eyes.
    Utica over Ithaca, 75-70 athletic team that plays very good at home, will give ithaca problems.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 04, 2008, 08:46:29 PM
    At the half --
    Stevens 37
    RIT 36

    Kenny Gethers took a nasty tumble around the 12 minute mark and has not returned.

    Game got kind of ugly towards the end of the half, a lot of clumsy fouls and a technical on McVean.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 04, 2008, 10:02:38 PM
    RIT knocks off Stevens, 91-85.

    If you want a beautiful example of how to extend a game by fouling, watch the tape on this one.  Stevens began fouling with a little under two minutes left -- and without getting a chance to look at the box score -- I'd guess they sent RIT to the line at least 10 times in that span.  And this was in a game that already featured a good number of whistles.  Nothing pretty out there tonight.

    Perhaps the most impressive part of RIT's victory was they did it largely without Kenny Gethers, who was injured leaping over a defender and falling on his head.  Didn't look terribly serious, as he remained on the bench, so I wouldn't expect him to be out for long.

    A Zeinfeld hot streak was the turning point in the game, several minutes into the second half. 

    Stevens did not look sharp.  That's a long bus ride.


    Update:  After looking at the play-by-play and box score, here are the numbers in all their glory. 

    Each team shot 37 free throws.  Stevens made 24, RIT made 25. 

    Stevens fouled 9 times in the final 3 minutes of the game.

    Carson had 23 and 14.
    Freshman Shane Foster had 17 in 18 minutes.
    Zeinfeld had 15 points, 9 of which came in a 1:20 span that saw RIT go from down 2 to up 5.  They never trailed again.

    Despite the sloppiness, I was impressed the bigs of Stevens.  Virgil Gray went for 22.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 04, 2008, 10:50:52 PM
    Congrats Bamm, attaboy RIT...show the Jersey boys this ain't their usual Skyline cakewalk.

    Ithaca rolls past Hartwick 91-76.  IC shoots nearly 60 percent, 6 in double figures.  Bostic 20, Burton 16, Brown 15 (6-6 from the field).  Cocoapuffs had 22.

    Utica cruised over Elmira 69-46 as Herring scores 15.  Elmira still blows.  Nothing to see here.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on January 05, 2008, 02:27:38 AM
    Bamm -  I'm in total shock....   not because RIT beat Stevens....  wasn't ready to annoint Stevens quite yet after a "hard fought victory" at home over Elmira...  BUT because McVean got a T on his home floor!!!!   I've probably seen close to 40 RIT games in the past 5-6 years and I don't ever remember McVean getting a TECH let alone one on his home floor!!!  What was up?  Dish the dirt!   Always thought this freshman class was special, and if Gethers was hurt Foster must have stepped up big time.  Again I'll say that Carson has improved more than anyone I've seen in a long time from one season to the next!  Great win for the Tigers!!


    By the way AU Pep,  I pray that the Saxons split with Elmira and you go to both games because if they don't, you may have missed the only Saxon ;D victory of the season (which I did predict)....  wouldn't miss NC though...  sounds like you enjoyed that too!!! :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 05, 2008, 09:39:53 AM
    Quote from: with age comes? on January 05, 2008, 02:27:38 AM
    Bamm -  I'm in total shock....   not because RIT beat Stevens....  wasn't ready to annoint Stevens quite yet after a "hard fought victory" at home over Elmira...  BUT because McVean got a T on his home floor!!!!   I've probably seen close to 40 RIT games in the past 5-6 years and I don't ever remember McVean getting a TECH let alone one on his home floor!!!  What was up?  Dish the dirt!

    Well, since my lady friend was having car trouble -- I gave her mine and was left without a way to the game.  I watched it on Empire8 TV, and thus (sadly) have no real idea what McVean (or anyone else on the bench) did to get the attention of the zebras. 

    Freshman Nate Korinchak on the front page of d3hoops.com

    Nice.

    I'm going to try and make it to the Naz/Stevens game today.  The Redskins/Seahawks battle just doesn't excite me a whole lot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 05, 2008, 11:28:55 AM
    Quote from: bamm on January 04, 2008, 10:02:38 PM

    Stevens did not look sharp.  That's a long bus ride.


    This is what makes the 1 seed in the E8 tourney especially important this year.  IC looked relatively flat when they were at Stevens on a Sunday afternoon too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 05, 2008, 11:34:12 AM
    Sounds like Stevens is going to be a force at home but take their lumps on the road.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 05, 2008, 12:39:07 PM
    It can't be understated how big of a game today's contest will be for Utica. If they lose, they will be 3 back in the loss column of the four teams that would qualify for the E8 Tourney and they'll have used 4 of their 8 home conference games. If they fall to IC today, they will probably have to go 8-2 down the stretch to make the tourney. Oh by the way, that stretch includes two games each against Fisher, Naz and Stevens, as well as a road game at RIT.

    I hope IC can match UC's intensity early.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bball05 on January 05, 2008, 04:51:18 PM
    39-28 utica at half
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bball05 on January 05, 2008, 05:16:39 PM
    utica up 59-46 wit 10 mins to go
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 05, 2008, 05:24:10 PM
    Bombers looking terrible. Bostic is useleless, Leahy's jumpers don't seem to be falling. The only player looking at all interested for IC is Burton. Terrible effort from Ithaca. They'll be fine but I sometimes wonder where this team's head (and heart) is on some nights.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 05, 2008, 05:29:19 PM
    BTW, I think I see UCgrad in the crowd. There's this meathead looking guy sitting two rows behind the UC bench and protesting every single call against UC and celebrating every UC hoop like someone just got their ankles busted at the Rucker. I know this sounds like profiling, but that has to be him, doesn't it? You will not persuade me to the contrary.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2008, 05:40:09 PM
    I had a feeling Utica was going to out play Ithaca today, they are always tough on their home court. I also think they match up well against Ithaca.  Any status on the Stevens Naz game? That road trip is lethal for teams visiting stevens and for stevens rochester other e8 trips.

    The one major difference between this year and years past are now that their is an additional strong team plus a few other teams that have gotten better, the back to backs are much tougher.  I think we will see some interesting upsets on saturday afternoons.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 05, 2008, 05:41:57 PM
    Well look who decided to show up. Bombers down 5 with 1:52 left. They don't deserve to win this game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 05, 2008, 05:46:05 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2008, 05:40:09 PM
    I had a feeling Utica was going to out play Ithaca today, they are always tough on their home court. I also think they match up well against Ithaca.  Any status on the Stevens Naz game? That road trip is lethal for teams visiting stevens and for stevens rochester other e8 trips.

    The one major difference between this year and years past are now that their is an additional strong team plus a few other teams that have gotten better, the back to backs are much tougher.  I think we will see some interesting upsets on saturday afternoons.

    Completely disagree with the above bolded statement. Ithaca just looked lethargic today. When they finally got playing their run-n-gun style it was too late. The game was very choppy with whistles every few seconds. I credit Utica for some of that, but the Bombers just weren't making their open looks. Like I said, Utica deserved to win that game, but I don't think Utica is a tough matchup for IC.

    Congrats to Utica, needed this one to keep their E8 Tourney hopes off life support. That said, they're still the 6th best team in this league right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 05, 2008, 05:54:35 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 05, 2008, 05:29:19 PM
    BTW, I think I see UCgrad in the crowd. There's this meathead looking guy sitting two rows behind the UC bench and protesting every single call against UC and celebrating every UC hoop like someone just got their ankles busted at the Rucker. I know this sounds like profiling, but that has to be him, doesn't it? You will not persuade me to the contrary.

    You don't ever see me in the crowd. When I am there, you could find me a little closer to the bench, and occasionaly in the locker room at half. Nice try though.

    BTW, Bobby Whyte = UC looks like a different team than first semester.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 05, 2008, 05:56:59 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 05, 2008, 05:46:05 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2008, 05:40:09 PM
    I had a feeling Utica was going to out play Ithaca today, they are always tough on their home court. I also think they match up well against Ithaca.  Any status on the Stevens Naz game? That road trip is lethal for teams visiting stevens and for stevens rochester other e8 trips.

    The one major difference between this year and years past are now that their is an additional strong team plus a few other teams that have gotten better, the back to backs are much tougher.  I think we will see some interesting upsets on saturday afternoons.

    Completely disagree with the above bolded statement. Ithaca just looked lethargic today. When they finally got playing their run-n-gun style it was too late. The game was very choppy with whistles every few seconds. I credit Utica for some of that, but the Bombers just weren't making their open looks. Like I said, Utica deserved to win that game, but I don't think Utica is a tough matchup for IC.

    Congrats to Utica, needed this one to keep their E8 Tourney hopes off life support. That said, they're still the 6th best team in this league right now.

    Um, the 6th best team (that is finally healthy) just smacked Ithaca around like a red headed step child. If not for the raping they took from the ref in the naz platter (I mean "game") they would be sitting pretty right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2008, 05:57:54 PM
    Ill take your word over mine, since it seems like you were there.  My statement was based on a normally athletic and physical utica team that would do well against burton, leahy, and bostic.  Since bostic's best attribute is his athleticism, Utica normally has people to counter that versus a bacon from RIT or the other usual bigs in the e8  for example.

    Gobombers, how does UC look and how good is Bobby Whyte?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 05, 2008, 06:00:04 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2008, 05:57:54 PM
    Ill take your word over mine, since it seems like you were there.  My statement was based on a normally athletic and physical utica team that would do well against burton, leahy, and bostic.  Since bostic's best attribute is his athleticism, Utica normally has people to counter that versus a bacon from RIT or the other usual bigs in the e8  for example.

    Gobombers, how does UC look and how good is Bobby Whyte?


    Playing injured today he was 1 rebound shy of a double double while shouldering the load inside as McClendon only played 11 minutes. It was the first time he played more than 12 minutes all season, only the second time he got to 10 since his injury. He will only get better.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 05, 2008, 06:04:58 PM
    It isn't so much of how good he is, it is that he makes the team entirely different. He gives UC two legit big guys, boards hard, and plays tough D. When he is not in the lineup, UC has small forwards playing in the 4 and 5 spot at times. He is like Jack Lighthall by comparison.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 05, 2008, 06:08:04 PM
    For what it is worth, this live video stream for 2 dollars was awesome. I couldn't go to the game today as I had a family event and I wanted to see my brother in law before he gets deployed. What a cool way to catch the game when not there in person.

    Doug with 28 points, 5 assists and 6 boards. Nice game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 05, 2008, 06:25:28 PM
    And for fun, some quotes that I was ripped on for last semester:


    "If you look back over the last 4 or 5 seasons, UC seems to always only win by a few points AT Elmira, no matter how good the team is. They then blow them out at Utica. Elmira isn't scared of anybody, which may be the result of playing teams like Colgate last season. IIRC, they beat some teams late last season that nobody thought they could."

    Since then, UC blew out Elmira at home, and Elmira nearly beat Stevens.

    "UC is really feeling not having their PF in the lineup. Whyte has turned into such a force inside that this looks like a tale of two teams from when he was playing (scrimmages) to when he was out. With him out, UC basically has small forwards playing the 4 and 5 every time McClendon leaves the game. Those were the times when Ithaca took advantage last night. It will be a big boost for UC when he is finally back. I feel bad for the guy because he worked so hard in the offseason, and you can tell just by looking at him. "

    Bobby Whyte playing more than 10 minutes, UC is 2-0 and winning by 17.5 ppg.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 05, 2008, 06:26:31 PM
    Stevens earns the split on their first e8 road trip with a thrilling 100-97 victory at Naz.  Too much of the 3 headed monster (Passalacqua, Gray, Farid).  They finished with 25, 25, and 20 points respectively.

    Naz got an outstanding game out of Canori to the tune of 34 points.  As for mr. mcadam, his stats are deceptive tonight.  Good game (19 pts, 14 assists, 6 rebounds)....but he also had 11 turnovers which is very uncharacteristic.



    So..we learned the gap between 1 and 2 in the e8 is more like a 1 and 1a..Stevens is definitely beatable after the performances this weekend.  However, they could prove dangerous if teams have to come down to Hoboken for the tournament.  I agree with the other posts...if the tournament is at Stevens, they'll probably win it...if it's up north, I would bet against them.  That trip is a killer.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 05, 2008, 06:28:33 PM
    As a side note...why isn't Gray being mentioned in the E8 player of the year race?  It seems like everyone has just assumed iots either Burton or McAdam.  I would say those two are clearly the frontrunners, but if Stevens wins the conference I gotta think Gray would get some votes.  Thoughts?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2008, 06:54:56 PM
    Agree with gray getting votes, if you scroll back to the posts about early predictions of first 2nd teamers i mentioned both gray and fadrid in the running.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bball05 on January 05, 2008, 08:20:25 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 04, 2007, 03:05:13 PM
    UC Grad, its sad to say i do not have inferiority complex and the only thing i am sick of is your love for Munch's non-exist offensive game and his flops on defense. After this post i am done discussing Utica until 2008 when they face Ithaca again.

    I want to bring to light the fact that everyone who moves on to play basketball in college was a scorer in H.S. They are typically their high schools top player, or within the top three as a senior and expected to score double digits in HS every night. So to say Munch could be a scorer in college because he scored 15-20 points a game in H.S. means nothing at the college level. I know guys on the Ithaca team who dropped 25 or more a night in H.S. In fact one player Louis Kail dropped 67 in a game back in high school but that doesn't mean he will be a scorer for Ithaca. He plays his role as does Munch, which is what happens in college when you have 12 -15 good players on a team. Munch's stats vs. Caz last night don't impress me either, Ithaca players such as Will Gaskins or Luke Robinson would come off the bench and have a field day with Caz.

    GB15, i would take Ruff over Munch. I don't think that is being biased towards Ithaca either. Ruff may not be as renowned for his D (which is not based on flopping like Munch) but everyone on Ithaca loves him for the job he does. He might not be as good on the ball as Munch, but he is a great off the ball defender, as is Brendan Rogers and those two combine to hold people, like CoCo from Hartwick or Joe Canori of Naz to 10 points under their season average and change the game. Keeping the ball out of the other players best offensive guard or wing. Ruff also has improved his offensive ability and can knock the three down this year, something Munch cannot do EVER.

    I don't think Munch would break the rotation in Ithaca, he comes off the bench already on a weaker team. UC Grad i know that i don't know Munch and his offensive prowess from his days at West Babylon H.S. but from watching him in his time in Utica, and watching Ithaca's team evolve into the team we have now, i don't see him taking anyone's spot for 10 minutes a game.

    u still taking ruff over munch? come on
    munch-4 pts 3 steals 5 assists 4 rebounds 0 turnovers nd munch won the battle
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 05, 2008, 08:23:22 PM
    Quote from: bball05 on January 05, 2008, 08:20:25 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 04, 2007, 03:05:13 PM
    UC Grad, its sad to say i do not have inferiority complex and the only thing i am sick of is your love for Munch's non-exist offensive game and his flops on defense. After this post i am done discussing Utica until 2008 when they face Ithaca again.

    I want to bring to light the fact that everyone who moves on to play basketball in college was a scorer in H.S. They are typically their high schools top player, or within the top three as a senior and expected to score double digits in HS every night. So to say Munch could be a scorer in college because he scored 15-20 points a game in H.S. means nothing at the college level. I know guys on the Ithaca team who dropped 25 or more a night in H.S. In fact one player Louis Kail dropped 67 in a game back in high school but that doesn't mean he will be a scorer for Ithaca. He plays his role as does Munch, which is what happens in college when you have 12 -15 good players on a team. Munch's stats vs. Caz last night don't impress me either, Ithaca players such as Will Gaskins or Luke Robinson would come off the bench and have a field day with Caz.

    GB15, i would take Ruff over Munch. I don't think that is being biased towards Ithaca either. Ruff may not be as renowned for his D (which is not based on flopping like Munch) but everyone on Ithaca loves him for the job he does. He might not be as good on the ball as Munch, but he is a great off the ball defender, as is Brendan Rogers and those two combine to hold people, like CoCo from Hartwick or Joe Canori of Naz to 10 points under their season average and change the game. Keeping the ball out of the other players best offensive guard or wing. Ruff also has improved his offensive ability and can knock the three down this year, something Munch cannot do EVER.

    I don't think Munch would break the rotation in Ithaca, he comes off the bench already on a weaker team. UC Grad i know that i don't know Munch and his offensive prowess from his days at West Babylon H.S. but from watching him in his time in Utica, and watching Ithaca's team evolve into the team we have now, i don't see him taking anyone's spot for 10 minutes a game.

    u still taking ruff over munch? come on
    munch-4 pts 3 steals 5 assists 4 rebounds 0 turnovers nd munch won the battle


    How sick was his steal when he dove from the FT line and took it while calling timeout?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bball05 on January 06, 2008, 12:11:16 AM
    ruff did some flopping of his own and i think theres a few people that hate him even if hes not good enough to hate... that steal at the end of the game look like it was a message being sent to your posters

    nd uc grad that diving steal nd timeout call was pretty sick i take munch over ruff anyday
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on January 06, 2008, 12:32:44 AM
    After the blip on the life support machine, Alfred got back to its losing ways this weekend. Also, Hartwick apparently has come back to earth with a pair of losses this weekend, IC and Elmira. Ouch!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 02:51:18 AM
    Geez, where were these UC fans when things weren't going your way? Way to come out of the woodwork, guys! Your return after today's game was about as surprising as the sun rising in the east this morning.

    With the exception of BomberSquadron, I don't think anyone said that Munch was a bad player. What most had a beef with was the statement that "Munch could get some burn on some D1 teams." Are you kidding me? Munch wouldn't be allowed to hold the jocks at schools like Niagara or even Bonaventure. Even you UC kool-aid drinkers have to admit that was an absurd statement.

    You UC guys can say what you want, but the Bombers are still ahead of you in the standings AND have six home games left to UC's four. If you think UC is finishing ahead of IC in the conference standings this year, you're nuts. If you honestly think that, give me an amount you're willing to lose and I'll take that bet every day of the week.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 08:55:18 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 02:51:18 AM
    Geez, where were these UC fans when things weren't going your way? Way to come out of the woodwork, guys! Your return after today's game was about as surprising as the sun rising in the east this morning.

    With the exception of BomberSquadron, I don't think anyone said that Munch was a bad player. What most had a beef with was the statement that "Munch could get some burn on some D1 teams." Are you kidding me? Munch wouldn't be allowed to hold the jocks at schools like Niagara or even Bonaventure. Even you UC kool-aid drinkers have to admit that was an absurd statement.

    You UC guys can say what you want, but the Bombers are still ahead of you in the standings AND have six home games left to UC's four. If you think UC is finishing ahead of IC in the conference standings this year, you're nuts. If you honestly think that, give me an amount you're willing to lose and I'll take that bet every day of the week.

    Um, if you look, I am rarely on this board when games aren't being played. So to see me "return" when games are back on shouldn't be a surprise there skip.

    Thats great that IC is up by one game (and now loses one tie breaker to UC with points scored against each other). They would be behind them if not for UC getting royally screwed against a pathetic naz team.

    If you havn't noticed, UC has a better record on the road this year. These were hardly "home" games as the students aren't even back on campus yet. It was almost a neutral site. They have also allowed the fewest points of any E8 team. They are also healthy for the first time, and Whyte still isn't 100%.

    As for your "off" night. Thats crap. IC just isn't that good, as I said after the first game when they played a depleted UC team. When both teams are healthy, UC is stronger by far top to bottom. This can be seen in the 28-9 point difference from the benches. In addition, UC has blown out common opponents that IC barely held off. IC has a good starting 5 and not much else. When UC isn't starting their 11th man because of injuries, the whole team is stronger. Over a season when you have no bench, it wears on your starters. UC is starting to not have to worry about that as they are getting healthy and young players are maturing and finding their roles.

    Some other numbers to chew on: Points off turnovers UC 20-10, Points in the paint UC 36-14 (Yeah, Whyte makes no difference down low since last time this number was a 2 point difference), Second chance points UC 13-7, Fast Break points UC 10-4, lead changes none, UC never trailed.

    I wish they had 4 more games against Ithaca. They could improve on there 8-4 series advantage in the last 4 years.

    You honestly think a team that lost by 2 when depleted and a 37-8 FTA difference was in play and a team that lost by 3 while missing one of it's best players can't make up 1 game over a team they are clearly better than?

    I think you were just drunk when you made this post at almost 3 am. Not a good way to drown your sorrows.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 09:08:54 AM
    Quote from: bball05 on January 06, 2008, 12:11:16 AM
    ruff did some flopping of his own and i think theres a few people that hate him even if hes not good enough to hate... that steal at the end of the game look like it was a message being sent to your posters

    nd uc grad that diving steal nd timeout call was pretty sick i take munch over ruff anyday

    Ruff would have a hard time even making the UC roster.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 10:10:20 AM
    Im not taking sides, but Ithaca is still a year away from being an NCAA tournament team in my eyes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 10:37:40 AM
    might be a little early but my buddy brought this up in another board.  Does anyone see the e8 getting 2 teams in the tournament this year?  I think no, but i could see a scenario where Stevens loses 1 or 2 more regular season so they are around 21-3 or something heading into the tourney and then they get upset.  Maybe then they get an at-large?  I dunno.  It'd be nice to have 2 teams in.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:44:48 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 10:37:40 AM
    might be a little early but my buddy brought this up in another board.  Does anyone see the e8 getting 2 teams in the tournament this year?  I think no, but i could see a scenario where Stevens loses 1 or 2 more regular season so they are around 21-3 or something heading into the tourney and then they get upset.  Maybe then they get an at-large?  I dunno.  It'd be nice to have 2 teams in.

    They could. It's tough to say if the entire conference is fairly strong, or if Stevens is overrated. Just two seasons ago the conference had two sweet 16 teams. There are 3 teams in the conference that still have players with NCAA tournament experience (Sweet 16 experience as well).

    This season looks like the conference will beat each other up, making it difficult to get two teams in. If one team dominates wire to wire and loses in conference finals, then two are likely.

    While the conference beating each other makes records look not great, the strength of schedule that it creates could lead to at large bids.

    At this point, is way too early to speculate. There is a lot of basketball to be played by everyone. Injuries happen and teams go on hot or cold streaks. Should be a fun year all around.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:45:33 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 10:10:20 AM
    Im not taking sides, but Ithaca is still a year away from being an NCAA tournament team in my eyes.

    I say a year away and depth away. Won't be helped by losing Burton after this season either.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 10:45:38 AM
    Cyclone, your scenario would be the only way the E8 would get two teams this year. I think there is too much parity in the conference and no real standout teams.  They will be each other up too much.  I think Stevens is the only team with a shot at getting an at large
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 10:47:33 AM
    I think Fisher, Stevens and a healthy Naz team could all be ncaa worthy and get a win over a weaker first round ne team.  However, Fisher and Naz have not been healthy and did not get the non-conference wins before league play, therefore, there only hope is to get a win in the e8 tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:49:03 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 10:45:38 AM
    Cyclone, your scenario would be the only way the E8 would get two teams this year. I think there is too much parity in the conference and no real standout teams.  They will be each other up too much.  I think Stevens is the only team with a shot at getting an at large

    I am not so sure Stevens should be annointed anything yet. That Naz team that took them to the wire looked terrible when I saw them. They couldn't score unless it was fromt he charity stripe. RIT barely beat a depleted UC team and Elmira gave them issues. There really isn't a stand out team in the conference at this point.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 10:56:45 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:45:33 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 10:10:20 AM
    Im not taking sides, but Ithaca is still a year away from being an NCAA tournament team in my eyes.

    I say a year away and depth away. Won't be helped by losing Burton after this season either.

    He's a junior. As are Bostic and Leahy. They will all be back next year. As for the rest of your claims, I don't find it necessary to reply to them. We'll see who finishes with the better conference record.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:57:57 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 10:56:45 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:45:33 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 10:10:20 AM
    Im not taking sides, but Ithaca is still a year away from being an NCAA tournament team in my eyes.

    I say a year away and depth away. Won't be helped by losing Burton after this season either.

    He's a junior. As are Bostic and Leahy. They will all be back next year. As for the rest of your claims, I don't find it necessary to reply to them. We'll see who finishes with the better conference record.


    Claims? They are called stats. Ya'll got smoked. Plus you need more than 3 players. 9 points off the bench doesn't cut it.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 11:00:55 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:49:03 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 10:45:38 AM
    Cyclone, your scenario would be the only way the E8 would get two teams this year. I think there is too much parity in the conference and no real standout teams.  They will be each other up too much.  I think Stevens is the only team with a shot at getting an at large

    I am not so sure Stevens should be annointed anything yet. That Naz team that took them to the wire looked terrible when I saw them. They couldn't score unless it was fromt he charity stripe. RIT barely beat a depleted UC team and Elmira gave them issues. There really isn't a stand out team in the conference at this point.

    I don't think he was annoiting Stevens.  It's just that, with the records the way they are and Stevens being the only conference team in the Top 25, it is hard to see the conference getting 2 teams in if Stevens isn't the wire to wire team.  Who else at this point looks like they could get an at large?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 11:01:17 AM
    I agree Stevens isnt a standout team in the conf. but they are the only team that did well out of conference and have got through some tough games with only 1 loss.  I see them losing at Fisher and at Ithaca or Utica but thats probably it until the Tourny. But who knows, I hope they get a few bad losses so Fisher can finish the season strong and host the tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 11:03:56 AM
    Cyclone, I know a few people that saw the Naz vs. Stevens, game although they felt that Naz should have one the game, Stevens was a better team and looked like an NCAA tournament caliber team.  I think Fisher when healthy is and Naz with ryan back can be. Although, I dont think any can get past the second round, but who knows I said the same thing last year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 11:05:30 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 11:00:55 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:49:03 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 10:45:38 AM
    Cyclone, your scenario would be the only way the E8 would get two teams this year. I think there is too much parity in the conference and no real standout teams.  They will be each other up too much.  I think Stevens is the only team with a shot at getting an at large

    I am not so sure Stevens should be annointed anything yet. That Naz team that took them to the wire looked terrible when I saw them. They couldn't score unless it was fromt he charity stripe. RIT barely beat a depleted UC team and Elmira gave them issues. There really isn't a stand out team in the conference at this point.

    I don't think he was annoiting Stevens.  It's just that, with the records the way they are and Stevens being the only conference team in the Top 25, it is hard to see the conference getting 2 teams in if Stevens isn't the wire to wire team.  Who else at this point looks like they could get an at large?

    Tough to say. I havn't looked at a lot of the schedules, but I know UC still has a lot of non-conference games coming up. They have cortland, oswego, potsdam, and sunyIT.

    The committee also focuses a lot more on the end of the season that the beginning. A lot of teams will get in with what seems like high losses if they finish the season on a tear. When UC was one of the first teams awarded an at large bid, they had 6 losses at the time.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 11:07:11 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 11:03:56 AM
    Cyclone, I know a few people that saw the Naz vs. Stevens, game although they felt that Naz should have one the game, Stevens was a better team and looked like an NCAA tournament caliber team.  I think Fisher when healthy is and Naz with ryan back can be. Although, I dont think any can get past the second round, but who knows I said the same thing last year.

    You really think that Naz is a tourny team? I don't even think they will make the E8 tourny. I know they play Fisher tough no matter how good the teams are, but when they were in Utica, they looked like a decent high school team. Undersized and terrible ball handlers and shooters. They couldn't handle pressure for their lives.

    Of course, that team has always been talented and inconsistent. Who knows what the real team is like?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 11:08:11 AM
    What also helps, if I am reading this correctly, is that Stevens doesn't take any of the regional votes away from the other e8 teams.  I've been told that technically Stevens is considered in the Atlantic region for regional voting and everything,  meaning they'll be dealing with the NJAC, CUNY, and their old Skyline buddies for regional voting.  If this is true I think it makes things easier for them to get an at-large like they did last year.  Does anyone know for sure?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 11:12:08 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 11:08:11 AM
    What also helps, if I am reading this correctly, is that Stevens doesn't take any of the regional votes away from the other e8 teams.  I've been told that technically Stevens is considered in the Atlantic region for regional voting and everything,  meaning they'll be dealing with the NJAC, CUNY, and their old Skyline buddies for regional voting.  If this is true I think it makes things easier for them to get an at-large like they did last year.  Does anyone know for sure?

    I wasn't aware that they weren't considered in this region. That could help this region. It also could hurt, since it doesn't give teams that beat them a QOWI worthy win over an opponent in region. Odd.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 11:17:51 AM
    I think it is the old UAA dilemma..how none of those teams are in the same region for the most part (teams in East, Northeast, Midwest region for example).  I'm not sure how they do the QOWI for those games.  But I think it does help because Stevens should easily be the #1 in the Atlantic Region, considering that e8 is a much better conference.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 11:21:42 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 11:17:51 AM
    I think it is the old UAA dilemma..how none of those teams are in the same region for the most part (teams in East, Northeast, Midwest region for example).  I'm not sure how they do the QOWI for those games.  But I think it does help because Stevens should easily be the #1 in the Atlantic Region, considering that e8 is a much better conference.

    I know some people that I could ask about this. Their opinions on matters like this are very well informed. This topic should be even more interesting at the beginning of February.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 11:31:19 AM
    Cyclone, good point, that definately will help.  All of the leagues in the East are beating each other up, the top teams have been losing a lot of games, so i think the set up this year will be less traditional, meaning some teams with more losses will get in the tourny.  i think its safe to say Sunyac will get two in, liberty one, i think the e8 could get two but again still think it has to be stevens getting the at large.

    UcGrad, Utica already has too many losses to get an at large i think, UNLESS, they absolutely kill league play having at most 2 more losses and sweep the rest of there non-conf schedule which is unlikely seeing how oswego is a strong team same with cortland, and potsdam will match the athletism.  Could happen but unlikely.  The year Utica got in with 6 losses is when 3 of those losses were to a highly ranked Fisher team with a high QWI, brining Utica's up even higher even though they lost those games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 11:36:50 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 11:31:19 AM
    Cyclone, good point, that definately will help.  All of the leagues in the East are beating each other up, the top teams have been losing a lot of games, so i think the set up this year will be less traditional, meaning some teams with more losses will get in the tourny.  i think its safe to say Sunyac will get two in, liberty one, i think the e8 could get two but again still think it has to be stevens getting the at large.

    UcGrad, Utica already has too many losses to get an at large i think, UNLESS, they absolutely kill league play having at most 2 more losses and sweep the rest of there non-conf schedule which is unlikely seeing how oswego is a strong team same with cortland, and potsdam will match the athletism.  Could happen but unlikely.  The year Utica got in with 6 losses is when 3 of those losses were to a highly ranked Fisher team with a high QWI, brining Utica's up even higher even though they lost those games.

    Tough to say. Cortland lost a lot a few years ago and UC smoked them last season. I have a friend on the team there and he isn't so sure about a cortland win. Oswego and UC have beaten each other up the last few seasons. UC smacked Potsdam in their scrimmage with Potsdam only winning a portion of the game when Whyte was out.

    Granted UC can't afford to screw up, but I have seen them win an insane amount of games with the addition of a big man at mid season just a few years ago. They have their work cut out for them, but their isn't a game on their schedule the rest of the way that isn't a game they can win.

    Keep in mind, beating teams that they barely lost to while shorthanded and hosed by a ref will give them wins later in the season against teams that have a slightly better record.

    At large shouldn't even be a thought for any team right now. There isn't a team in the top 5 of the conference that isn't capable of winning two games in a row at the end to get the automatic bid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 11:42:25 AM
    If you projected the tourney now what do you think happens. 


    Personally I think you'd see Stevens hosting. 


    #2 UC def #3 Ithaca
    #1 Stevens def #4 Fisher


    Toss up on the championship..I'd say Stevens right now but the Stevens/UC matchup in Hoboken is this weekend so more will be learned then.  I think Naz ends up being the team left at home.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 11:43:41 AM
    UCGrad, I agree.  I think Utica is a good team and will have a shot at getting in the tourny, and once in, they def will have as good of a shot as anyone to win it.  Its just going to be awful hard to get all those wins even if they should win a lot of the games, its almost in evitable they will blow a game they should have won and vice versa win a few games maybe they shouldnt. I know whoever comes to Utica will have their hands full, its a very tough place to play. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 11:45:24 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 11:42:25 AM
    If you projected the tourney now what do you think happens. 


    Personally I think you'd see Stevens hosting. 


    #2 UC def #3 Ithaca
    #1 Stevens def #4 Fisher


    Toss up on the championship..I'd say Stevens right now but the Stevens/UC matchup in Hoboken is this weekend so more will be learned then.  I think Naz ends up being the team left at home.

    I think those are the teams that will be in the tournament (maybe not in that order), with RIT just on the outside and Naz ending up 2 games or so out.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 11:46:07 AM
    I think its be more like:

    Stevens #1 versus #3 Ithaca
    Fisher #2 versus #4 Naz

    Toss up for Champ, Hosting team would be the favorite especially if it were fisher or stevens. I think the Naz win against utica will play a big part in getting in the tournament
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 11:49:09 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 11:43:41 AM
    UCGrad, I agree.  I think Utica is a good team and will have a shot at getting in the tourny, and once in, they def will have as good of a shot as anyone to win it.  Its just going to be awful hard to get all those wins even if they should win a lot of the games, its almost in evitable they will blow a game they should have won and vice versa win a few games maybe they shouldnt. I know whoever comes to Utica will have their hands full, its a very tough place to play. 

    I agree with you on the blowing a game and winning one that they were not favored in.

    As long as they play their game, they will be fine. The early season loaded schedule as far as league games and injuries really hurt. This weekend was an excellent response to the adversity.

    It is a daunting task, but knowing the talent and guys on the team, I think they are up for it. Plus I wouldn't want anyone but Coach Goodemote leading a team in this situation. The guy is great.

    Who is out for Fisher at the moment? What is their schedule like the rest of the way?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 11:49:37 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 11:46:07 AM
    I think its be more like:

    Stevens #1 versus #3 Ithaca
    Fisher #2 versus #4 Naz

    Toss up for Champ, Hosting team would be the favorite especially if it were fisher or stevens. I think the Naz win against utica will play a big part in getting in the tournament


    I think UC will beat Naz by at least 20 next time around.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 11:50:51 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:57:57 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 10:56:45 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:45:33 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 10:10:20 AM
    Im not taking sides, but Ithaca is still a year away from being an NCAA tournament team in my eyes.

    I say a year away and depth away. Won't be helped by losing Burton after this season either.

    He's a junior. As are Bostic and Leahy. They will all be back next year. As for the rest of your claims, I don't find it necessary to reply to them. We'll see who finishes with the better conference record.


    Claims? They are called stats. Ya'll got smoked. Plus you need more than 3 players. 9 points off the bench doesn't cut it.



    Wow, citing statistics from a game Utica won. Way to dig deep, UCgrad. Well, I only had to do five minutes of research to debunk one of your main claims (that IC has no depth). Ithaca's top three bench players (Rogers, Scanlon, Kail) are averaging 21.5 ppg for Ithaca. Utica's top five bench players (Goodman, Smith, Munch, Preston, Trahms) are averaging almost exactly the same PPG. In other words, Ithaca is getting the same production as Utica and using two less players to get it, allowing the starters (theoretically, the "better" players) to get more PT and get their numbers.

    An 8-man rotation is more than sufficient at this level. Plus, I think we'll be seeing more of Matt Ruger as the season progresses so it will be a 9-man rotation. Ithaca is fine in the depth department. IC had a bad game, UC played one of their better games. I don't think you need to make blanket claims about the entire IC team based on one game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 11:52:22 AM
    I gotta agree with UCGrad...I mean, Naz did get triple digits dropped on them last night.  I know it was double OT but they were home against a Stevens team on a tough trip that had just lost its first game of the season the night before.  I just can't see them beating UC into the tourney.


    That said, UC has a much tougher road then Naz does to get in. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 11:53:52 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 11:42:25 AM
    If you projected the tourney now what do you think happens. 


    Personally I think you'd see Stevens hosting. 


    #2 UC def #3 Ithaca
    #1 Stevens def #4 Fisher


    Toss up on the championship..I'd say Stevens right now but the Stevens/UC matchup in Hoboken is this weekend so more will be learned then.  I think Naz ends up being the team left at home.

    Don't think UC can get the #2. Too many road games left. Still have to go to all the Rochester schools and Stevens. If they get in, they're gonna be #4.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 11:55:36 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 11:50:51 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:57:57 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 10:56:45 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:45:33 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 10:10:20 AM
    Im not taking sides, but Ithaca is still a year away from being an NCAA tournament team in my eyes.

    I say a year away and depth away. Won't be helped by losing Burton after this season either.

    He's a junior. As are Bostic and Leahy. They will all be back next year. As for the rest of your claims, I don't find it necessary to reply to them. We'll see who finishes with the better conference record.


    Claims? They are called stats. Ya'll got smoked. Plus you need more than 3 players. 9 points off the bench doesn't cut it.



    Wow, citing statistics from a game Utica won. Way to dig deep, UCgrad. Well, I only had to do five minutes of research to debunk one of your main claims (that IC has no depth). Ithaca's top three bench players (Rogers, Scanlon, Kail) are averaging 21.5 ppg for Ithaca. Utica's top five bench players (Goodman, Smith, Munch, Preston, Trahms) are averaging almost exactly the same PPG. In other words, Ithaca is getting the same production as Utica and using two less players to get it, allowing the starters (theoretically, the "better" players) to get more PT and get their numbers.

    An 8-man rotation is more than sufficient at this level. Plus, I think we'll be seeing more of Matt Ruger as the season progresses so it will be a 9-man rotation. Ithaca is fine in the depth department. IC had a bad game, UC played one of their better games. I don't think you need to make blanket claims about the entire IC team based on one game.


    Based on two games actually. I commented during the first game that IC had no bench. Their bench players can't play D. They rely heavily on the top 3 guys.

    When your top 3 guys have to play nearly 40 minutes, you do not have a deep bench.

    Only one player on UC played 30 minutes or more. That is called balance.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 11:59:06 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 11:53:52 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 11:42:25 AM
    If you projected the tourney now what do you think happens. 


    Personally I think you'd see Stevens hosting. 


    #2 UC def #3 Ithaca
    #1 Stevens def #4 Fisher


    Toss up on the championship..I'd say Stevens right now but the Stevens/UC matchup in Hoboken is this weekend so more will be learned then.  I think Naz ends up being the team left at home.

    Don't think UC can get the #2. Too many road games left. Still have to go to all the Rochester schools and Stevens. If they get in, they're gonna be #4.

    I don't know about the 2, but I can see them getting the 3. Naz and RIT are both games they should win when at full strength. Alfred 2 times and hartwick 2 times as well. Splits against Stevens and Fisher are not out of the realm of possibility. 11-5 in conference would be pretty high up there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 06, 2008, 12:03:29 PM
    Fisher, I haven't kept up on the squad in the new year much.  How has Smalt looked?  I think I heard something about him being back and I think that could make a big difference for them in conference play.  Also, is Ozell getting more playing time?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 12:08:05 PM
    By the way, those aren't the top bench players on UC either. Maxwell ( the transfer from Sienna ) and Patterson and Smith have been splitting time starting and off the bench. Before last nights game, Maxwell was averaging 10.7 points per game and patterson 7.0. Patterson has 28 assists in 11 games.

    Last nights starting 5 was probably what I would go with. Also, Miller likely would have been getting more time if not for his thumb injury.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 12:17:54 PM
    Smalt has been close to getting double doubles on his two games back, scoring about 12 and rebounding 10.  His presence and leadership are more important that his statistics.  Ozell will be in the starting line-up within a few more games, he needs to be on the court more, especialy if bearden keeps up with his non-productive role.  I think Beigal and Smalt as the two down loans are are tough combo, along with shooting guard baltz, newman and ozell at the guards with bearden and mckeever giving good bench rotation.  I think they will come together and get the 2 spot.  As far as the schedule the rest of the way, they have the chase tourny which they will get atleast 1 other loss, before jumping back into conf. play.

    I agree on Utica having if they get in, getting the 3 or 4 not the two.  Naz may not get in, especially now that they dont have ryan mcadam, but when he comes back if they are still in good shape to get in, i think with him they can come out of the e8 tourny on top.  They played stevens close without him.  Naz doenst play defense, they are awfully coached, and dont take full advantage of their threats, so they could possibly not get in.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 12:20:31 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 12:17:54 PM
    Smalt has been close to getting double doubles on his two games back, scoring about 12 and rebounding 10.  His presence and leadership are more important that his statistics.  Ozell will be in the starting line-up within a few more games, he needs to be on the court more, especialy if bearden keeps up with his non-productive role.  I think Beigal and Smalt as the two down loans are are tough combo, along with shooting guard baltz, newman and ozell at the guards with bearden and mckeever giving good bench rotation.  I think they will come together and get the 2 spot.  As far as the schedule the rest of the way, they have the chase tourny which they will get atleast 1 other loss, before jumping back into conf. play.

    I agree on Utica having if they get in, getting the 3 or 4 not the two.  Naz may not get in, especially now that they dont have ryan mcadam, but when he comes back if they are still in good shape to get in, i think with him they can come out of the e8 tourny on top.  They played stevens close without him.  Naz doenst play defense, they are awfully coached, and dont take full advantage of their threats, so they could possibly not get in.


    Thanks for the information, and excellent analysis on Naz.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 12:23:27 PM
    no problem, also on your comment on goodemote, he is an excellent coach and great guy. You can count on his team getting better each week.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 12:34:27 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 12:23:27 PM
    no problem, also on your comment on goodemote, he is an excellent coach and great guy. You can count on his team getting better each week.

    He sure is. I didn't even play for him and he treated me better than than my lacrosse coach did.

    When are the chase seeding announced? That seems like it is a tough tourny for Fisher every year. They get all those local rivalry teams in a short period of time and who knows what can happen.

    Fisher still has a ton of talent, and as far as I am concerned, are the team to beat until they lose their crown.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 06, 2008, 12:44:58 PM
    Wow, lots of discussion today.  I think we can all agree that there are essentially six teams vying for four spots.  We could include Hartwick to make it seven, but I don't think any of us think they can win on the road.

    Stevens seems assured of a spot.  They won an important game yesterday and I consider them the best team in the conference.

    Naz is in good shape, despite the comments here.  They have important ROAD wins already over contenders RIT and Utica.   Despite consistent underachieving in past years, I believe their won't be a collapse this season.

    That leaves Fisher, Ithaca, Utica, and RIT fighting for the last two spots in my mind. 

    I like Ithaca.  They've still got all the important teams at home -- Stevens, Fisher, RIT, Naz, Utica.  They have always been tough at home for the Rochester squads, even when they haven't had the talented squad they have this year.

    I'd be willing to bet that the top three seeds are Stevens, Ithaca, and Naz.  The second two could be in any order.

    That leaves Fisher, Utica, and RIT fighting for that last spot.  This could play out in any number of ways, but I would bet against Utica.  They've still got two against Stevens, and they have all the Rochester schools AND Ithaca on the road.  I just don't see it happening.  They really couldn't afford to get swept by Naz and RIT at home.

    Fisher is vulnerable and RIT is inconsistent and young.  It should be exciting.

    One thing I think we can count on -- Fisher will not be hosting the E8 tourney this season.  I hope I don't have to eat those words.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 06, 2008, 12:46:52 PM
    Chase seedings should be released tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 06, 2008, 01:06:57 PM
    WOW!! That's all I can say from these recent posts. Some people think UC will beat Naz by 20+ next time they meet? Some people think Naz won't make the e8 tourney and that UC will be in before them? Wow...

    I agree with Bamm's previous comment, that Naz is in good shape despite the comments here. FisherDynasty, you said Ryan McAdam is out, what's the deal? What happened? And if they lost to Stevens in double OT without possibly their most important player, how can everyone say they aren't any good and give them crap for letting up 100 pts in a double OT game? (IMportant sidenote- i just looked at the box score play-by-play for that Stevens-Naz game and some big calls were made late in the game, anyone there that knows if they were legit calls or BS? Looks like key to stevens win was hitting big shots and more importantly, free throws in OT as they were 10-13 from the stripe and Naz was 7-13. )

    Yeah, UC is capable of doing somethings, but I don't get how some people are all high on them. Bamm is the person making the most sense on this board by far.

    Should be a deep, interesting, Chase Tourney this year, too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 01:07:58 PM
    Bamm, respectable comments.  It should be interesting.  Fisher having only played 3 league games is sort of the wild card, hard to tell how they are going to fair against the other teams in the conf.

    I guess he broke his hand and is out 3-4 weeks minimum.  Meaning he will miss a good portion of the season, I think Naz will drop bc of this and will be fighting to get into the tourny.  They should get him back late in the season so if they get in they will be very dangerous. Without him, I see them not winning enough games on the road to guarantee a spot.  Naz is still good without him and could still win the league without him but due to how they dont play good enough defense they can be beat by anyone (excluding alfred).  I think they will get in the tourny regardless.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 01:20:25 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 06, 2008, 01:06:57 PM
    WOW!! That's all I can say from these recent posts. Some people think UC will beat Naz by 20+ next time they meet? Some people think Naz won't make the e8 tourney and that UC will be in before them? Wow...

    I agree with Bamm's previous comment, that Naz is in good shape despite the comments here. FisherDynasty, you said Ryan McAdam is out, what's the deal? What happened? And if they lost to Stevens in double OT without possibly their most important player, how can everyone say they aren't any good and give them crap for letting up 100 pts in a double OT game? (IMportant sidenote- i just looked at the box score play-by-play for that Stevens-Naz game and some big calls were made late in the game, anyone there that knows if they were legit calls or BS? Looks like key to stevens win was hitting big shots and more importantly, free throws in OT as they were 10-13 from the stripe and Naz was 7-13. )

    Yeah, UC is capable of doing somethings, but I don't get how some people are all high on them. Bamm is the person making the most sense on this board by far.

    Should be a deep, interesting, Chase Tourney this year, too.


    Naz is horrible. Without the refs literally handing them the game against UC (UC was also missing a top player and naz was full strength) they lose to UC by at least 20.

    UC outscored them by almost 30 from the field.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 01:21:52 PM
    Quote from: bamm on January 06, 2008, 12:44:58 PM
    Wow, lots of discussion today.  I think we can all agree that there are essentially six teams vying for four spots.  We could include Hartwick to make it seven, but I don't think any of us think they can win on the road.

    Stevens seems assured of a spot.  They won an important game yesterday and I consider them the best team in the conference.

    Naz is in good shape, despite the comments here.  They have important ROAD wins already over contenders RIT and Utica.   Despite consistent underachieving in past years, I believe their won't be a collapse this season.

    That leaves Fisher, Ithaca, Utica, and RIT fighting for the last two spots in my mind. 

    I like Ithaca.  They've still got all the important teams at home -- Stevens, Fisher, RIT, Naz, Utica.  They have always been tough at home for the Rochester squads, even when they haven't had the talented squad they have this year.

    I'd be willing to bet that the top three seeds are Stevens, Ithaca, and Naz.  The second two could be in any order.

    That leaves Fisher, Utica, and RIT fighting for that last spot.  This could play out in any number of ways, but I would bet against Utica.  They've still got two against Stevens, and they have all the Rochester schools AND Ithaca on the road.  I just don't see it happening.  They really couldn't afford to get swept by Naz and RIT at home.

    Fisher is vulnerable and RIT is inconsistent and young.  It should be exciting.

    One thing I think we can count on -- Fisher will not be hosting the E8 tourney this season.  I hope I don't have to eat those words.

    UC already played IC at home.

    IC has those same teams as UC left, and UC showed yesterday that when both teams are full strength, they are far superior. Common opponents has UC winning by a larger margin as well. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 06, 2008, 01:29:46 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 01:21:52 PM

    UC already played IC at home.

    IC has those same teams as UC left, and UC showed yesterday that when both teams are full strength, they are far superior. Common opponents has UC winning by a larger margin as well. 

    Yep, I missed that.  Apologies.

    I think you're being a touch obnoxious here, though.  You can't make the argument that Utica is the better team "at full strength" when Ithaca beat them soundly when Bostic was barely off the football field and not starting.  In fact, the Utica game was his first game he played in at all.

    Utica may very well make a run and get in the tourney, but they have no doubt made it difficult for themselves. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 01:31:33 PM
    Quote from: bamm on January 06, 2008, 01:29:46 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 01:21:52 PM

    UC already played IC at home.

    IC has those same teams as UC left, and UC showed yesterday that when both teams are full strength, they are far superior. Common opponents has UC winning by a larger margin as well. 

    Yep, I missed that.  Apologies.

    I think you're being a touch obnoxious here, though.  You can't make the argument that Utica is the better team "at full strength" when Ithaca beat them soundly when Bostic was barely off the football field and not starting.  In fact, the Utica game was his first game he played in at all.

    Utica may very well make a run and get in the tourney, but they have no doubt made it difficult for themselves. 

    Last night was basically Whyte's (who was matched up with bostic) first game back as well. Difference is, he was injured and barely able to walk. A little harder to come back from.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 06, 2008, 01:31:56 PM
    Wow, UCGrad a little bitter about that Naz loss at home. I wish there were posters like ICGrad, NazGrad, WickGrad, ElmiraGrad, RITGrad, StevensGrad, FisherGrad, AlfredGrad, who whined and complained after their team lost home games and blamed them all on the refs. Even a month after it happened.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 01:34:49 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 06, 2008, 01:31:56 PM
    Wow, UCGrad a little bitter about that Naz loss at home. I wish there were posters like ICGrad, NazGrad, WickGrad, ElmiraGrad, RITGrad, StevensGrad, FisherGrad, AlfredGrad, who whined and complained after their team lost home games and blamed them all on the refs. Even a month after it happened.

    37-8 Free throw attempt difference in a 2 point game? You tell me you wouldn't be pissed about that when that is all that separates you from 5th to 2nd at the current time.

    Every time Naz missed a shot in the last 6 minutes, they went to the line. Every foul was called by the same official. The same one that ass raped UC last year against Clarkson.

    UC destroyed naz in EVERY aspect of the game. Naz looked pathetic.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 06, 2008, 01:42:20 PM
    Ever thought that maybe UC isn't that disciplined and maybe actually did foul a lot?? Ever think of that?? Maybe they made the refs actually have to make those calls?

    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 01:34:49 PM

    Every time Naz missed a shot in the last 6 minutes, they went to the line. Every foul was called by the same official. The same one that ass raped UC last year against Clarkson.

    UC destroyed naz in EVERY aspect of the game. Naz looked pathetic.


    Citing the Clarkson game a year ago, like I said, bitter.

    UC destroyed Naz in every aspect of the game except for one important stat...total points
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 01:44:54 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 06, 2008, 01:42:20 PM
    Ever thought that maybe UC isn't that disciplined and maybe actually did foul a lot?? Ever think of that?? Maybe they made the refs actually have to make those calls?

    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 01:34:49 PM

    Every time Naz missed a shot in the last 6 minutes, they went to the line. Every foul was called by the same official. The same one that ass raped UC last year against Clarkson.

    UC destroyed naz in EVERY aspect of the game. Naz looked pathetic.


    Citing the Clarkson game a year ago, like I said, bitter.

    UC destroyed Naz in every aspect of the game except for one important stat...total points

    Well, when someone from the naz team approached me after the game and said "you guys got screwed", not really.

    That and since I have seen nearly every game from the team since 1999, I know that isn't the case.

    But since you weren't there, why don't you tell us how it really went?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 06, 2008, 01:53:57 PM
    Who from Naz approached you after the game? A coach, a trainer, a player? More importantly, why would someone do that? What a dumbass...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 01:56:18 PM
    Screwed or not Screwed, you never leave the game up to the ref's.  Good teams find ways to win regardless.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 06, 2008, 01:57:56 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 01:56:18 PM
    Screwed or not Screwed, you never leave the game up to the ref's.  Good teams find ways to win regardless.


    True that!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 02:05:09 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 01:56:18 PM
    Screwed or not Screwed, you never leave the game up to the ref's.  Good teams find ways to win regardless.

    Outrebounded them 34-27, outscored them from the floor (18-45 for naz, Utica 24-57), 9 three point FG's for UC to 3 for naz, 17 assists for UC to 12 for naz,  less turnovers than naz, 36-5 bench points....

    Not much more UC could do aside from try to knock out the jerkoff ref that has a long history of crapping on them.

    It was all the same guy the whole time. He was being evaluated that day by a D1 ref, who was not at all happy with his performance.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 02:11:44 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 06, 2008, 01:53:57 PM
    Who from Naz approached you after the game? A coach, a trainer, a player? More importantly, why would someone do that? What a dumbass...

    One of their "entourage" who I was seated next to during the game. Nodded their head in agreement when Utica people would make a comment about terrible call after terrible call being made.

    There wasn't a player on Naz that didn't know they had it handed to them on a silver platter. There were charges called when the players were so far out of bounds that they were almost in the hallway. There were 4 foul calls on Utica in the last minute, none of which was even close to a foul. The guy had an agenda, and made sure he got the result he wanted.

    People that I have never heard complain about a ref in almost a decade (always said you can't blame officials) changed their tune for this one. It was blatant and disgusting. Wasn't just a call here or there, it was the theme of the night.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 02:21:39 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 06, 2008, 01:53:57 PM
    Who from Naz approached you after the game? A coach, a trainer, a player? More importantly, why would someone do that? What a dumbass...

    Unlike fans of teams, people who have some kind of affiliation with a team speak candidly with each other before and after games. If UC got royal treatment, I'd be the first to tell someone on the other team that it happened that way.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on January 06, 2008, 05:11:46 PM
    ok bamm, why are you so down on Fisher this year...I will admit that I haven't followed them a lot yet, but they have a win in the bag vs. RIT and have lost against some very solid teams... are they going to be great this year...no, but what can you expect you can only reign on top so long before you have to rebuild for a year or two
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 06, 2008, 05:31:59 PM
    I think SJF is getting back up to speed but that loss to Hobart looks particularly bad these days.  We'll learn a lot about the Cards by close of business Jan 18; 3 Chase games plus at Naz and home with Stevens.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 06, 2008, 05:43:45 PM
    Quote from: superman57 on January 06, 2008, 05:11:46 PM
    ok bamm, why are you so down on Fisher this year...I will admit that I haven't followed them a lot yet, but they have a win in the bag vs. RIT and have lost against some very solid teams... are they going to be great this year...no, but what can you expect you can only reign on top so long before you have to rebuild for a year or two

    Umm... given their record and performance to date I think I'm judging them pretty objectively (as much as it pains me to do so). 

    And as Caz Bombers mentioned... Fisher lost to Hobart.  At home.  Hobart has been defeated by Elmira and Cazenovia. 

    If I wanted to be "down" on them, I would certainly have good reason.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 07:39:03 PM
    God, I get a headache each time I have to catch up on several posts from UCgrad. First, it was the D1 evaluator who made comments to you after the Naz game about the ref's terrible performance, now it is a member of the Naz "entourage" doing the same. What's next? Are you going to post in a couple of weeks that you now have a taped statement from Joe Canori and the McAdam brothers where they say it was their opinion that they weren't worthy to be in the same gym as Utica and the refs won that game for Naz.  And if a Naz fan did say this to you, why didn't you bring it up in the immediate aftermath of that game when you were complaining about everything else? Come on, who believes this garbage??

    Bamm hit it on the head, UCgrad is just getting obnoxious. Making a statement like Utica is "far superior" to Ithaca is a joke. Best case for Utica, they're evenly matched teams this year. Keep complaining about the officials, UCgrad. I wouldn't be surprised if they read these boards (a lot of people do without posting). You're not doing your team a favor by incessantly complaining about them. And, by the way, Utica does foul a lot. Here's the amount of FT shots that Utica and their opponents have taken in the last four games

    1/5   Ithaca 36, Utica 22
    1/4   Elmira 29, Utica 13
    12/8 RIT 15, Utica 3
    12/7 Nazareth 33, Utica 7

    In those four games, Utica has taken 45 FT's while their opponents have attempted 113. There has been a double-digit difference in every one of those games. You cannot really be making the argument that all 12 of those officials have it in for Utica. The Pioneers just try playing aggressive defense and get called for a lot of fouls. If you want to give up less FT's, stop hacking so much.

    Besides, your statistical analysis from the Naz games shows nothing. There wasn't much of a disparity in the major stats. Naz shot 40% from the field, Utica shot 42%. Can't tell from that stat who'd win a game. Naz turned it over 13 times, Utica turned it over 12 times. Again, no major difference. The rebounding margin was only +7 in Utica's favor. That's not that big of a deal. You lost the game, get over it. But if you want to give me Naz and 20 points in the second meeting, I'll happily accept those points.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on January 06, 2008, 08:47:04 PM
    Quote from: bamm on January 06, 2008, 05:43:45 PM
    Quote from: superman57 on January 06, 2008, 05:11:46 PM
    ok bamm, why are you so down on Fisher this year...I will admit that I haven't followed them a lot yet, but they have a win in the bag vs. RIT and have lost against some very solid teams... are they going to be great this year...no, but what can you expect you can only reign on top so long before you have to rebuild for a year or two

    Umm... given their record and performance to date I think I'm judging them pretty objectively (as much as it pains me to do so). 

    And as Caz Bombers mentioned... Fisher lost to Hobart.  At home.  Hobart has been defeated by Elmira and Cazenovia. 

    If I wanted to be "down" on them, I would certainly have good reason.



    I'm not blaming...just trying to get up to speed... have you seen them play.... what is unimpressive about this years squad
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 06, 2008, 08:49:56 PM
    Here they are:

    Men

    Wednesday at SUNY Geneseo

    No. 1 Rochester vs. No. 8 Keuka, 6;15 p.m.

    No. 7 Roberts Wesleyan at No. 2 SUNY Geneseo, 8:15 p.m.

    Wednesday at Fisher

    No. 3 Nazareth vs. No. 6 RIT, 6:15 p.m.

    No. 4 SUNY Brockport at No. 5 Fisher, 8:15 p.m.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Fisher catches a break, in my mind -- playing a Brockport team that is reeling.  We'll see if that holds true.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 06, 2008, 09:00:42 PM
    Some break.  Angry, talented Brockport + SJF home gym advantage = probably great game coming up.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 09:18:43 PM
    break my ass, that is a horrible break. Yes they have been in a slump, but lets be honest we all know there going to come together and they're very talented.  Id rather play any other team besides UofR.  The only good thing about this match up is, bport isnt in the e8, It sucks playing teams 3 and possible 4 times a year.  Idk if Fisher is going to be able to handle port in round 1.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:53:15 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 07:39:03 PM
    God, I get a headache each time I have to catch up on several posts from UCgrad. First, it was the D1 evaluator who made comments to you after the Naz game about the ref's terrible performance, now it is a member of the Naz "entourage" doing the same. What's next? Are you going to post in a couple of weeks that you now have a taped statement from Joe Canori and the McAdam brothers where they say it was their opinion that they weren't worthy to be in the same gym as Utica and the refs won that game for Naz.  And if a Naz fan did say this to you, why didn't you bring it up in the immediate aftermath of that game when you were complaining about everything else? Come on, who believes this garbage??

    Bamm hit it on the head, UCgrad is just getting obnoxious. Making a statement like Utica is "far superior" to Ithaca is a joke. Best case for Utica, they're evenly matched teams this year. Keep complaining about the officials, UCgrad. I wouldn't be surprised if they read these boards (a lot of people do without posting). You're not doing your team a favor by incessantly complaining about them. And, by the way, Utica does foul a lot. Here's the amount of FT shots that Utica and their opponents have taken in the last four games

    1/5   Ithaca 36, Utica 22
    1/4   Elmira 29, Utica 13
    12/8 RIT 15, Utica 3
    12/7 Nazareth 33, Utica 7

    In those four games, Utica has taken 45 FT's while their opponents have attempted 113. There has been a double-digit difference in every one of those games. You cannot really be making the argument that all 12 of those officials have it in for Utica. The Pioneers just try playing aggressive defense and get called for a lot of fouls. If you want to give up less FT's, stop hacking so much.

    Besides, your statistical analysis from the Naz games shows nothing. There wasn't much of a disparity in the major stats. Naz shot 40% from the field, Utica shot 42%. Can't tell from that stat who'd win a game. Naz turned it over 13 times, Utica turned it over 12 times. Again, no major difference. The rebounding margin was only +7 in Utica's favor. That's not that big of a deal. You lost the game, get over it. But if you want to give me Naz and 20 points in the second meeting, I'll happily accept those points.


    Riggghhht. Outscoring a team by 21 from the field and winning the battle in EVERY statistical category and still losing doesn't say anything about the officiating.

    Run along, it's past your bedtime.

    By the way, when UC had everyone, you got smoked. End of story. The only thing I was wrong about was that I told the guys on UC that they would have won by 15 with Bobby, it was only 12.




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:59:42 PM
    And bombers, educate yourself before you speak. Go ahead and ask a ref before a game if D1 refs evaluate them in early season games.

    Jim Burr was evaluating at the UC-sunyit game the week before. As a Syracuse fan, I wanted to hurl when I saw him.

    Either way, you are only as good as your last game. If IC sweeps Utica the next 2 years, they can even their record against them since 2004. Not too shabby.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 06, 2008, 11:18:22 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:59:42 PM
    And bombers, educate yourself before you speak. Go ahead and ask a ref before a game if D1 refs evaluate them in early season games.

    Jim Burr was evaluating at the UC-sunyit game the week before. As a Syracuse fan, I wanted to hurl when I saw him.

    Either way, you are only as good as your last game. If IC sweeps Utica the next 2 years, they can even their record against them since 2004. Not too shabby.

    It was a two-possession game with 90 seconds left.  Congrats on winning a home game you absolutely had to have to save the rest of your season from being a "play out the string" scenario.  IC is not in such dire straits.  Get over yourself.  We'll all definitely be sure to keep the bolded statement in mind the next time Utica loses.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 07, 2008, 12:12:00 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:59:42 PM
    And bombers, educate yourself before you speak. Go ahead and ask a ref before a game if D1 refs evaluate them in early season games.

    Jim Burr was evaluating at the UC-sunyit game the week before. As a Syracuse fan, I wanted to hurl when I saw him.

    Either way, you are only as good as your last game. If IC sweeps Utica the next 2 years, they can even their record against them since 2004. Not too shabby.

    After some of your recent posts, I don't think you have to worry about people questioning my education. Lest we forget which one of us concocts stories about postgame run-in's with an opposing team's fans. Or which one of us calls out another team's depth when the other team's top three bench players (IC) produce as much as another team's top five bench players (UC). Shall I continue?

    By the way, I congratulate you on waiting a mere one sentence before contradicting yourself. You say a team is only as good as their last game in one breath, then you immediately suggest that Ithaca isn't as good as Utica unless they get two seasons worth of victories against them. Which is it? Is a team only as good as their last game or is a team only as good as the last three years?

    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 06, 2008, 10:53:15 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 06, 2008, 07:39:03 PM
    God, I get a headache each time I have to catch up on several posts from UCgrad. First, it was the D1 evaluator who made comments to you after the Naz game about the ref's terrible performance, now it is a member of the Naz "entourage" doing the same. What's next? Are you going to post in a couple of weeks that you now have a taped statement from Joe Canori and the McAdam brothers where they say it was their opinion that they weren't worthy to be in the same gym as Utica and the refs won that game for Naz.  And if a Naz fan did say this to you, why didn't you bring it up in the immediate aftermath of that game when you were complaining about everything else? Come on, who believes this garbage??

    Bamm hit it on the head, UCgrad is just getting obnoxious. Making a statement like Utica is "far superior" to Ithaca is a joke. Best case for Utica, they're evenly matched teams this year. Keep complaining about the officials, UCgrad. I wouldn't be surprised if they read these boards (a lot of people do without posting). You're not doing your team a favor by incessantly complaining about them. And, by the way, Utica does foul a lot. Here's the amount of FT shots that Utica and their opponents have taken in the last four games

    1/5   Ithaca 36, Utica 22
    1/4   Elmira 29, Utica 13
    12/8 RIT 15, Utica 3
    12/7 Nazareth 33, Utica 7

    In those four games, Utica has taken 45 FT's while their opponents have attempted 113. There has been a double-digit difference in every one of those games. You cannot really be making the argument that all 12 of those officials have it in for Utica. The Pioneers just try playing aggressive defense and get called for a lot of fouls. If you want to give up less FT's, stop hacking so much.

    Besides, your statistical analysis from the Naz games shows nothing. There wasn't much of a disparity in the major stats. Naz shot 40% from the field, Utica shot 42%. Can't tell from that stat who'd win a game. Naz turned it over 13 times, Utica turned it over 12 times. Again, no major difference. The rebounding margin was only +7 in Utica's favor. That's not that big of a deal. You lost the game, get over it. But if you want to give me Naz and 20 points in the second meeting, I'll happily accept those points.


    Riggghhht. Outscoring a team by 21 from the field and winning the battle in EVERY statistical category and still losing doesn't say anything about the officiating.

    Run along, it's past your bedtime.

    By the way, when UC had everyone, you got smoked. End of story. The only thing I was wrong about was that I told the guys on UC that they would have won by 15 with Bobby, it was only 12.


    You just don't get it, do you? You really think that outscoring a team by 21 from the field means something?! Of course you outscored them by that much from the field, I'm sure Naz had difficulty putting the ball in the basket will all the UC players hacking the life out of them. I'll walk through this for you. It means nothing if Utica hits two jumpers but then twice fouls a Naz player and allows Naz to score 4 points from the free throw line. Sure, you "outscored them by 4 from the field" but that means nothing. Nothing!! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. IT'S THE SAME AMOUNT OF POINTS!!!!

    And it doesn't matter if you won every statistical category if it's only by 1 turnover, or 2% from the field. Especially when you're giving up so many FT's. It's not like the amount of FT's that Naz took is an outlier relative to the rest of UC's games, as illustrated by my earlier post showing how many FT's Utica's last four opponents have taken. Utica should stop hacking. Oh wait, then Utica won't outscore it's opponents by so many from the field so nevermind...they wouldn't want to mess with your favorite stat like that

    Past my bedtime? I live in New Orleans. You live in Utica. With all due respect to upstate New York, which is where I grew up, I don't think I need to go on about which is a later city or has more late-night options.

    As Caz said, it was a 5-point game with 90 seconds left. A mediocre team that plays well at home beat a pretty good team that is still inconsistent on the road in a Saturday afternoon game (tougher for the road team to win than the Friday night games). I'd say that I'm looking forward to the two teams meeting again, but unfortunately I think your team is going to be conspicuously absent from the event where that would be possible.




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 07, 2008, 07:30:16 AM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 06, 2008, 09:00:42 PM
    Some break.  Angry, talented Brockport + SJF home gym advantage = probably great game coming up.

    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 06, 2008, 09:18:43 PM
    break my ass, that is a horrible break. Yes they have been in a slump, but lets be honest we all know there going to come together and they're very talented.  Id rather play any other team besides UofR.  The only good thing about this match up is, bport isnt in the e8, It sucks playing teams 3 and possible 4 times a year.  Idk if Fisher is going to be able to handle port in round 1.

    Don't want to argue too much about this, because Port may very well win -- but talent doesn't mean much when you are playing terribly.  They still don't have even a single impressive victory.  I know Brockport generally turns it on in January, so we'll see if that holds true. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 07, 2008, 09:30:42 AM
    I def. hear ya Bamm.  Last year when harris and paris joined the team, they lost their first two games or 2 out of 3 then got it together right around this time or shortly after this time.  So we'll see, could be good to play them now versus later, but still would rather play any other team but UofR. Either way, if you want a shot at winning the chase, theres going to be tough games, theres not many easy games and Fisher deserves to play a tough first game due to there subpar performance first semester.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 07, 2008, 09:58:32 AM
    The idea that a ref was "out to get" UC just cracks me up on all levels.  I didn't even know UC had athletics until like January of my freshman year when we had a game against them...and my mom is FROM UTICA.  Who is this ref, Ray Finkel?  What has UC ever done that would lead a ref to dislike them?  It's not like they have won anything...in any sport...ever. 

    (I'd like to apologize, in advance, to DC who will almost certainly take offense to this post.  I just think the whole situation is hilarious.)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 07, 2008, 10:04:41 AM
    Anyone else paying attention to Corey McAdam's stats this season?  He's on the per-game leaderboard at #11 for points (14.1), #1 for assists (9.9), #12 for rebounds (5.9), and #1 for steals (2.5).  He's also second on the team in blocks, which I find amusing, because I didn't think Naz even bothered to defend shots.

    I am always skeptical of the assists stat, because it is the only one where the nature of the scorekeeper is important -- but in McAdam's case I tend to believe it's legitimate (especially given Naz's 82 ppg output).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 07, 2008, 10:24:11 AM
    I know his stats are pretty unreal.  However, having seen him play twice this season and three times last season I was never impressed.  Naz runs their whole offense through him, forcing him to create every single time which leads to his high number of assists.  Not saying that is a cheap way to get them, bc in the end, he still has to make the play.  But, he turns the ball over plenty (which is also fine seeing how much he has the ball) but doesnt distribute the ball around enough or to the right players at the right times.  I wasn't impressed in any of the showings that I've seen him play in, you never would have guessed his stats were as high as they were from watching the games.  There are 3 or 4 pgs in the E8 I'd chose over him if i had to pick a pg on my team. Not saying his isnt good, bc I think he is a good player no doubt, just not as good as the stats show.  Stats are stats, its the intangibles that make good players great such as good defense, getting others involved, leadership etc.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 07, 2008, 10:50:03 AM
    Onto the next thing that's been eating at me. Why is everyone so down on Naz? They played without Ryan McAdam against Stevens on Saturday and still took the #13 team in the country to 2OT. Naz GAVE that game away. They were ahead by 12 with under 8 minutes, by 9 with 5 minutes, by 7 with 3 minutes, and up 4 with 12 seconds left. We know they have trouble holding leads late, but that doesn't make them a bad team. That team is damn good, regardless of what many on the board say.

    Oh, and Naz gave up 70 in regulation to Stevens. Lower than what several other E8 teams have allowed to the Ducks in 40 minutes. Not sure the fact that Stevens ended up with 100 means anything, really.

    From now on, I'm doing my best not to sound angry with other posters. But it's hard, sometimes. Fewer stupid and baseless opinions would go far in helping me. You know who I'm talking to.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 07, 2008, 10:54:45 AM
    I agree Naz is good and can be very good with Ryan.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on January 07, 2008, 12:56:56 PM
    Having seen Corey in HS and many times in college, I'd have to respectfully disagree with you Fisher Dynasty on your assessment of Corey as a player...and to say that there are 4 other PGs in the E8 that you'd take over him is one of the most assanine statements I've ever seen posted on here.  Who would you take over him??  I hope your not referring to Newman.  The only other PG in the conference that can ever pose an argument is Burton.  I am by know means a Naz fan, but Corey is that good.  You ask coach Neer, Coach McVean, Coach Kornaker or any other coach in the area and they wouldn't hesitate to tell you how good he really is.  I would take him over any other PG in the SUNYACs as well.  Let's not forget that he's only a sophomore and lets not forget his numbers from last year either.  There is a reason that Naz runs their offense thru him--because he makes others better.  They have other guys that can handle the ball and make plays--Ryan, Canori, Higdon.  I can tell you as someone who has recruited for the last 5 years, he's the best D3 caliber PG that I ever saw.  NOT the best...but the BEST D3 Caliber one.  By the way, after catching up on the 50 posts from UC grad over the last 3 days, one thing has become quite clear to me...he's lost his freaking mind.  Bamm, I'd have to agree with you in pointing out his obnoxiousness, and even adding dimensia and insanity to his profile as well.  Dude you are out of your mind!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 07, 2008, 01:29:34 PM
    Very intrigued by the slate of games at Fisher on Wednesday night. Both Naz v. RIT and Brockport at Fisher should be good ones. Solid four hours of hoops right there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 07, 2008, 01:35:24 PM
    I hope my statement didnt come off wrong, I by no way meant that cory is not a good player and one of the best pg's.  Just meant him as a player for POY versus his stats.  He's not the best d3 caliber pg ive ever seen by any means though.  I'd take herrig for Utica and burton from ithaca over him.  Yes hes only a soph, thus is why he is weaker in the pts mentioned in my previous posts.  When McAdam and Newman have matched up last year Newman won both battles by far, however, I still WOULD take McAdam over him.  In the Sunyac, I would rather take anthony williams, periolli, and sharod harris over him in a minute. Ryan, Canori, or higdon are not pg's thus shouldnt be considered in handling the ball.  but either way, I think he's a good player and would want to have him on my team just dont think he is the best player in the league.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 07, 2008, 01:47:22 PM
    Jose, I am going to assume I (and GB15) had a much better Sunday than you did.  You're next, Tonessica Romimpson.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 07, 2008, 01:53:41 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 07, 2008, 01:47:22 PM
    Jose, I am going to assume I (and GB15) had a much better Sunday than you did.  You're next, Tonessica Romimpson.

    The only good thing that came from Sunday was Q saving himself $400 by not opting into his playoff tickets.  Actually, the Bucs played that exact same game about 20 times this fall and the Giants were just one of the teams that made them play.  It reminded me exactly of the Redskins game in which the Bucs only won because they picked off a pass inside the 5 and a pass in the end zone in the final 5 minutes.


    Also, I thought that was a pretty good post on McAdam Razor.  Although, if I were you, I would refrain from comments like this:

    Quote from: Razor on January 07, 2008, 12:56:56 PMI can tell you as someone who has recruited for the last 5 years

    No one is going to be impressed by the fact that you are recruiting.

    Also funny, calling someone the best "D3 caliber" anything.  I know you trying to avoid overstating something, which is appreciated after some of the yahoos that post in the E8Hoop room, but it sounds like a backhanded compliment.  Unintentional comedy = +k from JoseQ.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on January 07, 2008, 02:06:26 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on January 07, 2008, 09:58:32 AM
    The idea that a ref was "out to get" UC just cracks me up on all levels.  I didn't even know UC had athletics until like January of my freshman year when we had a game against them...and my mom is FROM UTICA.  Who is this ref, Ray Finkel?  What has UC ever done that would lead a ref to dislike them?  It's not like they have won anything...in any sport...ever. 


    Actually - In looking at the Naz - UC box, at least one of those refs, has been known (as documented on this site) to alter the outcome of a game.  I don't think he is deliberately out to get a particular team or coach, but he does have a habit of influencing the outcome by how he calls a game.  He is also very much a dominant personality, who will try to overshadow the other officials in his crew.

    I am aware of certain players that are always in foul trouble when he's reffing.

    If Rumors are accurate, this same ref is being considered for an upgrade to D-I, that's probably why Burr (who I have thought of for years as a GREAT ref) was in the stands, as he's the assigner for the ECAC.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on January 07, 2008, 02:55:25 PM
    Good points about the SUNYAC PGs FisherDynasty, although I must say that the only one of the 3 (Williams, Harris, Perioli) that I'd take over McCaddam is Williams.  Perioli is very good but not quite the playmaker as Corey, and Sherrod completely dominates the ball and does little to make his cast better--example this year.  Look at how well they were playing prior to break as a TEAM.  Williams and Wylkes were playing out of their mind and the wealth was being spread.  Since Sherod has entered back into the lineup, he's got his points, but the result has been 2 L's.  Anthony Williams is a stud though, and quite honestly, may be more of a D2 or low end D1 caliber player similiar to Devon Downing from back in the day at AU.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 07, 2008, 03:02:37 PM
    I thought the same thing about harris, however, they made it to the elite 8, and they would have made it no wheres near it without him.  Periolli might not be the playmaker but is more mature, much stronger, and is a little more traditional. could make a case for both.  I agree on williams, he def is lower level D1 caliber, he is very good.  McAdam when he is a senior in my opinion is going to be at the level representing his stats, I just think he does some things very well especially for being a sophmore, but each decision creates a stat.  For example. He's a creating pg versus a solid pg that makes an initial pass to the wing and cuts through, leading to better stats, but does not necessarily mean he is exceptional.  Either way he is one of the best, the pgs being compared are all very good so from there different people will have different opinions.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dmcclintock on January 07, 2008, 03:54:46 PM
    After a long hiatus, I am back to this board.  I need some filling in as the standings for the E8.  I'm dissapointed in Fisher but I think they can make the turn around...Smalt back will help.  I have not been able to see a lot of games this year so I'm not up to speed as id like to be however I like the fact that the E8 seems to be doing better across the board this year.  Stevens was  #13 and Naz getting some votes.  Also Ithaca seems stronger and Utica is always tough.  Should be a lot more parody this year rather than the usual top two, and everyone else. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on January 07, 2008, 04:25:46 PM
    Quote from: Razor on January 07, 2008, 02:55:25 PM
    Anthony Williams is a stud though, and quite honestly, may be more of a D2 or low end D1 caliber player similiar to Devon Downing from back in the day at AU.

    Lets not get too carried away.  Giving all do props, Williams did play D-I for a year at Morgan State (MEAC - typically one of the bottom two conferences in Sagarin Ratings), but wasn't a major factor as a freshman at that level, on a team that was below 500.  He's probably where he belongs, as a top-notch D-3 player. 

    As good as he is, he still doesn't match up to my gold standard in D-III point guards, "Pony" Bullock who led Potsdam to a 60-1 record and a national title in '85-86-87.  A great point guard is like a quarterback AND a middle linebacker, he runs your team on offense, and he destroys the other team's offensive rhythm and makes it hard to score.

    The thing that Williams, Harris, and Perioli all can do is create their own opportunities.  That's a huge factor as it allows these teams to stop runs.  I too am surprised that 'port has dropped a couple, and the Plattsburgh loss to Gordon must be attributed to too long a layoff.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 07, 2008, 09:47:31 PM
    Continuing to prove himself into January -- Mark Carson earned his second Empire 8 Player of the Week award on January 6. 

    Carson, Virgil Gray (badass name -- someone has to say it), and Coco have all won the award twice this season.


    Nate Korinchak joined teammate Shane Foster as Rookie of the Week Award winners.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 08, 2008, 08:31:21 AM
    Three games on the schedule tonight:

    Staten Island at Stevens
    Elmira at Alfred
    Utica at Oneonta

    I'll take Stevens, Elmira and Utica. This may be one of a small number of chances for Alfred to get a conference win.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 08, 2008, 08:46:54 AM
    Good to be back after a long vacation, looks like i have some catching up to do, mostly in regards to my friend UC Grad.

    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 08, 2008, 08:31:21 AM
    Three games on the schedule tonight:

    Staten Island at Stevens
    Elmira at Alfred
    Utica at Oneonta

    I'll take Stevens, Elmira and Utica. This may be one of a small number of chances for Alfred to get a conference win.

    Also on tap tonight, Ithaca heads up to face Hobart.  I am taking Ithaca and agree with GB15 on his picks as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 08, 2008, 09:42:23 AM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on January 08, 2008, 08:46:54 AMAlso on tap tonight, Ithaca heads up to face Hobart.  I am taking Ithaca and agree with GB15 on his picks as well.

    Maybe my least favorite gym in Central New York.  Terrible mid week trip for IC.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 08, 2008, 09:58:50 AM
    What, you don't like playing in a gym where the sidelines and end lines are 2 feet from the walls?  You'd think a place as reasonably upscale as HWS would have a suitable facility.

    Speaking of horrible gyms, Jose, I attended a game last night at Jacksonville U's on-campus gym.  No wonder you didn't want to play there.  What a gawdawful 70 year old dump.  These days the school moved the men's team to the downtown civic arena with the women playing more than half their games at Swisher.  Last night the whole place smelled like polyurethane and gender discrimination, a powerful scent that stings the nostrils.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 08, 2008, 01:52:53 PM
    Don't know if I ever even made it into the on-campus facility.  When they recruited me JU played in a downtown arena but not the downtown arena where they currently play.  The entire campus was just bad as I remember it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: labart96 on January 08, 2008, 03:37:47 PM
    I have to agree that the HWS gym/basketball court set up is no good.  My high school had a better facility.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 08, 2008, 03:49:00 PM
    Quote from: TGP on January 08, 2008, 03:37:47 PM
    I have to agree that the HWS gym/basketball court set up is no good.  My high school had a better facility.



    The more I think about it, the more I realize that a lot of high schools have better gyms than D3 schools. Pick the high school and they probably have a better gym than Fisher (though, I must admit that Fisher's gym has grown on me...provides a great, unique atmosphere when the crowd is into it).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 08, 2008, 04:03:39 PM
    A lot of high schools have better facilities than more than a few D1 schools.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 08, 2008, 04:45:26 PM
    That is the difference between public and private funding...right?

    I actually wouldn't mind risking life and limb in the Hobart gym if the size of it made the crowd seem bigger and louder.  But for whatever reason, that place was not only small but also real quiet, even when there was a decent crowd in the building (we never played there on a weekend so no good crowds).

    Just weird all around.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 08, 2008, 06:09:32 PM
    Fisher's Gym is pretty nice just is small.  My high school gym was bigger. Atleast the step is different than the standard gym as most high schools are set up. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 08, 2008, 07:32:45 PM
    Bombers off to a lousy start, down 7 with 2 minutes left in the 1st half.  Burton's got 10 and Rogers 8 but we might need to put out an APB for Sean Leahy tonight.

    EDIT: Make it 43-37 Hobart at the break.  Burton with 12; Hobart shooting over 50 percent from the floor.  A little defense, please, IC.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 08, 2008, 08:36:39 PM
    Just a terrible game for Ithaca, they're probably going to lose by double digits.  Awful loss.  IC's just not that good.

    EDIT: Final was 87-75.  Brendan Rogers with 23 for Ithaca; 17-8-5 for Burton.  Hobart shoots 54.8 percent from the floor, mostly layups according to live stats.  Pumpkins with five guys in double figures. 

    With just about all E8 games from here on out,  Ithaca must figure out what the hell is going on defensively.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bball05 on January 08, 2008, 09:22:05 PM
    any1 got the uc score?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on January 08, 2008, 10:11:22 PM
    Utica 68  Oneonta 67  no stats yet
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 08, 2008, 11:51:25 PM
    Quote from: reelentless on January 08, 2008, 10:11:22 PM
    Utica 68  Oneonta 67  no stats yet

    Herring with 16-5-7 and McClendon with 14 and 6 rebs. Patrick Goodman chips in 11 off the bench. Trailing by 1, James McClendon layup with 4 seconds left wins the game for Utica. In the interest of full disclosure, Utica savior Bobby Whyte had 2 pts, 2 rebs, 3 turnovers in 20 minutes of play.

    Stevens trumps Staten Island, 71-56. Virgil Gray leads the way with 23 while Waleed Farid fills the stat sheet with 9 pts, 12 rebs, 7 assists, 4 steals, and 2 blocks. Joseph Ayodele w/8pts and 10 rebs off the pine. Stevens now at 10-1.

    In the evening's only conference matchup, Elmira knocks off homestanding Alfred by 7, 60-53. The Soaring Eagles shoot a ridiculous 13-19 (68%) from 3-pt land in the win. Evan Taylor leads with 17 and Nick Molak pours in 11. Alfred was led by Jared Patt's 17. Elmira now sits at 2-4 in the conference while Alfred falls to 0-4. In other news, the only people that attended this game were immediate family members and girlfriends of the players.  As a follow up, it was later learned that six of the girlfriends left their boyfriends upon realizing how terrible at basketball they were.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 09, 2008, 12:01:53 AM
    Back in Ithaca and made the trip to see my uncle who works at Hobart and catch the game. It was a tough game. A lack of intensity hit Ithaca tonight and this may be a reoccurring theme for the Bombers. It seems with the season almost half in the bag that The Bombers are having a mid-life crisis. They have an identity but just aren't sure what is going on. Except for a few bombers there seemed to be an overall lack of emotion at points and no urgency throughout the game. The Bomber bench brought it once again and made the game close with a three minute spurt to close the half. Amazing games from Brendan Rogers and Louis Kail both played very hard.

    Kail and Rogers started the second half and the energy carried over for the first three minutes. The Bombers made a few runs and took a one point lead with about tweleve and a half to play but Hobart regianed the lead and took it to about six with six minutes left and never looked back. Story of the game was missed free throws in key spots, missed threes (5-28) and turnovers (20) hurt the team the whole game. They had to have won the rebound battle, but everyone else seemed to be stepping up for Hobart as they had five players in double figures. Ithaca went 1-3-1 at times and that worked but in man to man they couldn't keep anyone in front of them.

    Overall a very difficult loss to take watch, personally I think Ithaca should have won by 15-20 and I don't know what happened. Hopefully they can figure out something to solve the lack of energy, which always seems to be a problem with Ithaca. When I played the team always came out flat except in certain games. On top of that they lost the swag they had during first semester games. I hope to see the Bombers regain that versus Alfred and get ready for a big weekend trip to Rochester on the 18th and 19th.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 09, 2008, 12:07:52 AM
    On the topic of Gyms, i didn't mind Hobart's gym. Had much better lighting than Ithaca's Ben Light. For a school with such a big physical education program it is a crime that Ithaca has such a crappy gym. They use the black curtian to hide the nasty wall and it has the worst lighting. I also hated Alfred's Gym with one side being about 25 feet longer than the other behind the basket. I too would take my high school gym over most empire 8 gyms.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 09, 2008, 12:12:18 AM
    At least IC is getting that shiny new facility soon.  When's the ETA on that again?  Anybody know for certain?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 09, 2008, 08:24:03 AM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 09, 2008, 12:12:18 AM
    At least IC is getting that shiny new facility soon.  When's the ETA on that again?  Anybody know for certain?

    Not for basketball Caz.  Bomber hoops stay in Ben Light.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 09, 2008, 09:29:48 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on January 09, 2008, 08:24:03 AM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 09, 2008, 12:12:18 AM
    At least IC is getting that shiny new facility soon.  When's the ETA on that again?  Anybody know for certain?

    Not for basketball Caz.  Bomber hoops stay in Ben Light.

    On the virtual tour, there is a basketball floor shown in the field house. Are you sure they're definitely staying in the bulb?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 09, 2008, 10:01:54 AM
    I'm sure.  I saw that on the virtual tour as well but in talking to people at the college, they say that renovations to Ben Light is part of another "phase" of the master campus plan.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 09, 2008, 10:11:44 AM
    Dangit, Jose's right.  They're groundbreaking this spring, but the project in its first phase is going to be a big indoor space for graduation and concerts, with athletic use as indoor track, IPF for football and other outdoor sports with a turf field outside for practice, presumably football.

    Basketball/Volleyball/Wrestling and the swim teams will have to stay in Hill Center until they are able to raise even more money to build more stuff.  Years and years, sounds like.  That's a shame...the biggest area of needing athletic improvement at IC has always been basketball.  This coulda really helped them.

    EDIT: Not that a legitimate IPF for football is a bad thing.  Can't imagine too many D3 schools in the region can show that to recruits, at least we'll be keeping up with the Fishers that way.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 09, 2008, 10:16:54 AM
    The spring teams will garner the biggest benefit from the new center.  As of now, if you want to play Baseball, Softball or Lax at IC, you have to suffer through 5 am or 11 pm practices while there is snow on the ground because the hoop teams have practice time priority in the Hill Center during the week.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 09, 2008, 11:19:32 AM
    From what i have heard Ithaca will be playing basketball in Ben Light and will not be going over to the new Athletics and Events Center. It will really help teams like softball who go at 5 am from Jan into the march and april. The plans for the building look amazing, I feel they could fit a nice basketball court in there, something similar to Hamilton College's field house.

    Tonight i am planning to go to Fisher for the chase games being played there. Some good match-ups in my opinion. I want to see RIT's Mark Carson and see his improvement's, also want to see if Naz id for real, they are almost in the Top 25 now. Also glad to see the rematch of Fisher v. Brockport from last year's sweet sixteen game at Fisher. I was at the game second row on the floor and it was top three games i have ever seen, very exciting. Brockport has struggled as of late and i'm not sure why. After seeing them last year and  talking to some former players i had them pegged for the top 10 all season and a possible final four team and now are out of the top 25.  Should be a good set of games and i hopefully will have some insight to report when i make it back to Ithaca tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 09, 2008, 02:14:05 PM
    I'm going to Fisher for those game too.  I really would like to see Geneseo play to get some sort of idea of how good they are, so hopefully nothing wacky happens to them tonight and they'll be in the winner's bracket this weekend. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 09, 2008, 07:48:47 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 08, 2008, 11:51:25 PM
    In the evening's only conference matchup, Elmira knocks off homestanding Alfred by 7, 60-53. The Soaring Eagles shoot a ridiculous 13-19 (68%) from 3-pt land in the win. Evan Taylor leads with 17 and Nick Molak pours in 11. Alfred was led by Jared Patt's 17. Elmira now sits at 2-4 in the conference while Alfred falls to 0-4. In other news, the only people that attended this game were immediate family members and girlfriends of the players.  As a follow up, it was later learned that six of the girlfriends left their boyfriends upon realizing how terrible at basketball they were.

    While Pep did not attend the game and therefore is not a reliable source for any information pertaining to the AU men's basketball team, knowing that the only AU students in town are basketball players, Pep doesn't think those were the players' girlfriends...sisters maybe?


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 09, 2008, 09:17:49 PM
    Fisher up 10 at the Half. Mark Bearden finally stepping up, scoring 13 in the first, hes the x factor.  Smalt only 2 minutes, does anyone know if he is still hurt?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 09, 2008, 09:26:55 PM
    smeigal and smalt are both in foul trouble 3 early in 2nd, explains why smalt played so little, early fouls probably attributed to being rusty and out of position.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum03 on January 09, 2008, 09:54:57 PM
    what is the score in the Fisher game? I'm at work and can't follow the live stats. is it over?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on January 09, 2008, 09:56:13 PM
    Livestats said 65-65 at 9:53 but that seems like it's an old score (i.e. stats frozen).

    http://livestats.internetconsult.com/sjfc/mbball/

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on January 09, 2008, 10:01:01 PM
    Brockport 73
    St. John Fisher 69 - 6 minutes left

    Update per Geneseo/Roberts Wesleyan game which is in OT
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum03 on January 09, 2008, 10:10:21 PM
    score? fisher game
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on January 09, 2008, 10:24:42 PM
    Brockport wins 88-87 over the Cards.  St. John Fisher gets Keuka in the consolation bracket.  Brockport gets UR.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 09, 2008, 10:25:25 PM
    Whoever submitted the game score to D3hoops.com was incorrect, and switched the team's scores --

    Naz won 88-82.

    I'll share some thoughts tomorrow -- I was tired of last minute losses in that gym 3 years ago.  Now I feel like I'm channeling Bill Murray every time I'm in there. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum03 on January 09, 2008, 10:26:25 PM
    What happened? Did Fisher have a chance to win at the end?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 09, 2008, 10:35:54 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum03 on January 09, 2008, 10:26:25 PM
    What happened? Did Fisher have a chance to win at the end?

    According to LiveStats, Newman hit a 3 with two seconds left, Brockport lost the ball and McKeever missed a shot at the buzzer that would have won it. That information is limited, of course, because LiveStats is not too descriptive.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on January 10, 2008, 12:56:16 AM
    Been away for a few days (as has UC grad - this years Mad Hawk) so I thought I was dreaming when I come back and see that everybody's pick as the weak sister league ( Liberty League) goes 5-0 against the SUNYAC and the e-8!!!  SLU beats Oswego and Brockport,  Hamilton also beats Brockport, and quite frankly the biggest surprise (to me at least) Hobart beats Ithaca????  What gives??? :o
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 10, 2008, 02:04:02 AM
    Two great games tonight with two crazy endings. First RIT battles back to tie the game and has the ball and lets up 6 points in the final thirteen seconds capped off with a dunk by Higdon with .01 seconds remaining. As crazy an ending as i have ever seen, everyone in the gym was shocked. Canori played very well for Naz, looked like Corey McAdam may have tweaked a back muscle didnt start the second half, but still played a lot of minutes. I think Higdon finshed with 22. Can't remember as it was so long ago.  Pretty sloppy game overall, a lot of easy baskets for both teams. I am still shocked about how the game ended so quickly in that fashion.

    Fisher Vs. Brockport was also a crazy game. Brockport played very poorly most of the game, lacked discipline as a team and couldn't stop Fisher on D. Played a lot of Zone. Brockport pressed in the second half a lot more and at one point also scored 7 points in about 12 seconds with Newman on the bench and the press on. That closed the lead down from 10 to 3 with an AND1 basket.  Fisher got nothing from Smalt, had no impact on the game at all. No energy, no points, you didn't know he was on the court. Baltz played well on offense leading Fisher with 22 on 5-10 from three but can't stop anyone on Brockport on the defensive side. I also thought Newman played well vs. Harris. Bearden did play a good first half, didn't give much in the second half. Brockport almost gave the game away ala RIT in the first game. It was 86-81 Fisher hit a 3 then fouled Sherrod Harris. He sank both from the FT line making it 88-84. Newman comes down and hits the three, uncontested as Harris just lets him fire away from the top of the key. Fisher is down one two seconds left, the pressure is on and Brandon Williams just throws the ball in its tipped up ends up in the hands of McKeever who pump fakes and shoots a three which almost banks in but was a little long.  Kornaker chased the refs off the court looking for the foul. Controversial play and a tough situation to call a foul in that spot in my opinion. I see the coaching staff's arguement though. Also thought time should have expired before the shot got off. The inbounds pass was tipped up in the air and to me it seemed like more than two seconds elasped before McKeever shot the ball.

    I think power was out in parts of rochester due to wind knocking down trees on to power lines. Power was out in parts of Fairport and it took a while to find some food after the games. Had to settle for friendly's then a long drive back to Ithaca. Was well worth it, both games were very good. I wish i got to see Naz with Ryan McAdam. Heard from some people there it is a soft cast and he could be back end of the month. Tough breaks for RIT and Fisher tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 10, 2008, 02:15:07 AM
    Bamm, i stayed for both games and got back late. Hopefully you can give more insight on the Naz- RIT game. And your opinion on the ending.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 10, 2008, 08:38:41 AM
    Good recaps by all.  The Chase Tournament has to be one of the best things going in NY State right now.  How was the attendance?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 10, 2008, 08:44:49 AM
    Whether or not you consider the RIT/Naz battle a good game depends on how you define "good".  It was certainly exciting.  But beyond that there were a lot of bad decisions, a lack of defense, and questionable coaching decisions. 

    Naz controlled most of the game.  RIT played almost exclusively man-to-man, and when Naz needed a bucket they would just spread the floor and let Canori take his man off the dribble.  Considering his success rate I'm surprised they didn't do this every trip down the court.  He was unstoppable for whoever was guarding him.

    I will say this about McAdam as well -- if you are a front court player on Naz, you have to be ready to catch the ball at any time from any angle.  McAdam is as quick a decision maker as anyone I've seen, and when he penetrates and draws defenders he consistently finds the open man just at the right moment.

    RIT got their offense from a variety of sources.  Carson struggled with fouls, but still put up 18/9.  Zeinfeld was 5/11 from behind the arc -- including the huge tying three with about 40 seconds left.  The guy is clutch, without a doubt.  But I was surprised at how he got it off.  A hard jab step that the defender inexplicably fell for -- when does Zeinfeld ever take the ball to the basket?

    I was surprised that he was even in position to tie the game at that point though.  I generally don't question Coach McVean -- there's a reason RIT is in the E8 tourney every season and it starts with him -- but I almost fell over at what he did with about 2:30 to go in the game.

    Shane Roe, Mark Carson, and Zeinfeld had scored 11 of the last 14 points for RIT.  Yet with Naz shooting free throws (up 3) he took all three players out of the game.  Again, Naz was shooting free throws so this was not an offense/defense substitution.  Just a weird decision that I still have trouble understanding.  Carson and Zeinfeld got back in the game about 1 minute and a couple of possessions later.

    After that tying 3, Naz took the ball, spread the floor, and let Canori take his man off the dribble and hit a 16 footer that was as predictable as a Giuliani stump speech.

    Then, as freshman tend to do, RIT's Nate Korinchak got rattled in the backcourt and lost the ball -- Naz got an easy layup and that was that.


    If you're looking to keep Naz under 80 points -- a couple of thoughts:  You can shake McAdam.  He will turn the ball over with good defensive pressure.  RIT was able to surprise him a couple of times with a trap and got easy layups out of it. 

    And you have to guard Canori with either someone who can put a hand in his face or a pest who constantly has their hands near the ball.  Zeinfeld, a shorter player who doesn't put a ton of pressure on the ball, had no shot most of the game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 10, 2008, 08:46:00 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on January 10, 2008, 08:38:41 AM
    Good recaps by all.  The Chase Tournament has to be one of the best things going in NY State right now.  How was the attendance?

    The gym was almost completely full, and most were Naz fans.  They've got talent and a local star (McAdam), so I'm guessing they get a good draw anywhere in town.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 10, 2008, 09:06:49 AM
    Very good attendance at voth games. Bamm, I agree that the Naz -RIT game was very sloppy. Both teams let up numerous baskets on in bounds plays underneath the basket, some weren't even plays just guys standing wide open. Carson had a quiet 18 with 8 coming from the line and shot very well from the line and didn't have any awful looking foul shots. The taller big who came in off the bench didn't impress me at all, very soft and let up a lot of offensive rebounds. I was surprised that he played so much and that Roy is coming off the bench.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 10, 2008, 09:24:12 AM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on January 10, 2008, 09:06:49 AM
    Very good attendance at voth games. Bamm, I agree that the Naz -RIT game was very sloppy. Both teams let up numerous baskets on in bounds plays underneath the basket, some weren't even plays just guys standing wide open. Carson had a quiet 18 with 8 coming from the line and shot very well from the line and didn't have any awful looking foul shots. The taller big who came in off the bench didn't impress me at all, very soft and let up a lot of offensive rebounds. I was surprised that he played so much and that Roy is coming off the bench.

    That was the other interesting part about removing Carson with 2:30 left -- he brought in Rizzo -- a freshman who has exactly 10 points this entire season.  This is an odd strategy considering you are down by three and about to get the ball.

    Roy is in a tough spot.  A strong ball-handler and defender, but he doesn't have any kind of perimeter scoring ability and Korinchak is a better penetrator.  That being said, RIT will have to live with the freshman mistakes like what they saw at the end of last night's game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on January 10, 2008, 09:24:41 AM
    D&C reports following attendance

    Brockport/Fisher - 720
    Geneseo/RW - 550
    Naz/RIT - 700
    UR/Keuka - 240

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 10, 2008, 09:30:19 AM
    Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on January 10, 2008, 09:24:41 AM
    D&C reports following attendance

    Brockport/Fisher - 720
    Geneseo/RW - 550
    Naz/RIT - 700
    UR/Keuka - 240



    I said in my previous post that McAdam is a local kid, but I should point out that all three leading scorers for Naz last night are all Rochester kids -- McAdam (Fairport), Canori (Webster), and Higdon (Edison).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 10, 2008, 09:30:54 AM
    If brockport is playing in a game its almost always going to be sloppy thats how they play and force the other teams to play.  It is to their advantage. Smalt is better in a halfcourt set type a game versus up and down, did  he did not play a lot of minutes, single digits i think due to foul trouble, 2 early in first half and a quick one in the 2nd. Either way not a bad showing for Fisher, bport has been strugglin but has very good talent. 


    bombersquadron in your opininon, who do you think is better out of rit, naz, and fisher although its probably tough to compare as fisher played a crazy bport team.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 10, 2008, 12:13:48 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 10, 2008, 09:30:54 AM
    bombersquadron in your opininon, who do you think is better out of rit, naz, and fisher although its probably tough to compare as fisher played a crazy bport team.

    Very good question. I was thinking about this last night. With the way the teams all played last night i woul dhave to say Naz. Their outside players all played well (Canori, McAdam, Higdon). They played without Ryan who i saw play this summer at the ESG and played very well and their posts (Smith and Dehiemer) didn't play great games in my opinion. So if they can get McAdam back at 100% and those guys playing i take them.

    With RIT i do think Carson has improved and i also like Gethers and Whitwood. Have some solid players but like Bamm said they will live and die by the freshman if McVean keeps playing them in important minutes down the stretch. I think they well have some up and down games, really depends on Carson getting foul calls and Zienfield hitting shots.

    Fisher had a tough opponent to judge them against, I think Newman played well in his match-up versus Harris who is so much better than him, Harris had a quiet 23 and Newman played well on offense and got them going to start the game. Baltz can shoot it if given a inch of space but can't play any D.  Ilike the freshman Franklin, played tough in the first half but lost the poise in the second half and was useless. It really depends on the frontcourt of Breaden, Biegel and Smalt. If the two bigs are always in foul trouble which i expect to be the case against almost every team in the conference they will struggle.

    So to answer the question I take Naz, I want to see how they far versus unbeaten Geneseo as a third big test for them (losing to U of R and Stevens). Somehow Naz is getting more votes in the top 25 than Genseio is at this point. I'm not counting out Fisher or RIT though as i think both teams can put it together and wn a bunch of Empire 8 games in a row if they get hot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 10, 2008, 12:45:52 PM
    Seems to be a big difference in opinion as to how good Naz is. UCgrad says they're trash. Everyone else seems to think they're good. Interesting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on January 10, 2008, 01:37:20 PM
    I have seen RIT and Naz play UR this year.  Naz sort of imploded in the second half and the game devolved into a series of one-on-one exhibitions.  They lost by 17-18.  RIT had a terrible first half-trailing by 16 at the break I think.  Came out in the second half playing much better and lost by 10.  Based on what I saw, I'd take RIT.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on January 10, 2008, 01:56:38 PM
    Based on last night's results, who does everyone think will end up advancing on and winning the Chase?  I'm going to stick with my original picks of U of R and Geneseo in the finals and U of R winning.  I think Geneseo matches up well with Naz on the perimeter with Morton and Kling vs. McCaddam and Canori.  Both are long, lanky defenders who will give them trouble and Howe should have the advantage inside.  Too bad that both teams couldn't be at full stength with Kitson out for 'Seo and Ryan out for Naz.  In the other match up, I think U of R is going to absolutely destroy Brockport.  They just have no weaknesses.  They have horses inside and great shooters outside in Chiemelowic and Dominiak and are just too disciplined to let Bport's style of play rattle them!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on January 10, 2008, 02:08:44 PM
    Have to say it was nice to see Chmielowiec in the lineup last night.  Sort of a pick your poison with he and Dominiak.  I think they are very fortunate to have 2 PG's in Kaplan and Juron that seem to enjoy dishing more than scoring.  I believe Kaplan is #2 nationally in asst/to ratio.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 10, 2008, 02:27:28 PM
    Didn't someone say (maybe Bamm) that UR struggled a bit with pressure in the 2nd half of the RIT/UR game? If that was the case, wouldn't Brockport's press give them trouble? That said, I could see UR pulling away at the end for a 10-point win.

    I'm going to guess that the final will be Naz/UR if for no other reason than the fact that the top two seeded teams almost never meet in the final of that tournament. Then I'll predict a B'port victory over Geneseo in the 3rd place game. I'm intrigued by the Roberts/RIT game after Roberts took Geneseo to OT on Geneseo's home court. I'd love to see RIT play Fisher in the 5th place game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bball05 on January 10, 2008, 07:52:24 PM
    utica is down 31-27 at half to cortland
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 10, 2008, 09:28:08 PM
    The SUNYAC board reports Cortland put a whoopin on 'em.  Remember, UCGrad45, you're only as good as your last game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 10, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 10, 2008, 09:28:08 PM
    The SUNYAC board reports Cortland put a whoopin on 'em.  Remember, UCGrad45, you're only as good as your last game.

    And don't forget that Ithaca "smoked" Cortland (by UCgrad's standards). Hey UCgrad, if you "hammered" Ithaca by 12, what did Cortland just do to you by 17? Violated? Annhilated? Pick your adjective. Early prediction as to UCgrad's excuse: The referees didn't show up so they used three Cortland phys-ed teachers instead. I guess my wish for a meteor to hit the gym just after tip went unanswered. Hey, I couldn't root for Cortland.

    Bobby Whyte: 4pts, 5rebs, 2 TO's in 25 mins...stellar, especially considering both of Cortland's bigs had big nights. Ladies and gentlemen, Utica's savior.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on January 11, 2008, 11:05:01 AM
    Give Cortland most of the credit for UC's 36% shooting, 23 TO performance.  Cortland was able to penetrate and effectively found open men down low for chippies.  The opposite was true for UC.  The team looked tired, especially in the second half and without crisp execution, Cortland's D forced UC to settle for jumpers, which mostly they were missing ( 1-8 fm 3 in the second half).  Cortland has more and bigger bigs than usual and they all played very well last night.  Lewis is the real deal.

    All that said, I would not be too quick to announce the demise of UC.  Last night they started a freshman point (Paterson), a sophomore (Whyte), a junior transfer (Maxwell), and juniors, James and Herring.  Only Herring has significant time starting and the only sub with experience is Sr. Dennis Munch.  Two more freshman and two sophomores along with Munch play significant and meaningful minutes.   These guys are still working on their nicknames, but make no mistake, this is a very very talented group, one through the end of the bench. They need experience together, but with the excellent coaching they're getting UCGrad may yet be vindicated!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 11, 2008, 11:35:46 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on January 11, 2008, 11:05:01 AMThese guys are still working on their nicknames, but make no mistake, this is a very very talented group, one through the end of the bench.

    ?

    I have spent my entire life in and around basketball and never heard this expression but I kind of dig it.  What does it mean?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on January 11, 2008, 11:57:34 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on January 11, 2008, 11:35:46 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on January 11, 2008, 11:05:01 AMThese guys are still working on their nicknames, but make no mistake, this is a very very talented group, one through the end of the bench.

    ?

    I have spent my entire life in and around basketball and never heard this expression but I kind of dig it.  What does it mean?

    We share a problem, I don't understand your question? 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 11, 2008, 12:10:20 PM
    Quote from: reelentless on January 11, 2008, 11:05:01 AMThese guys are still working on their nicknames
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on January 11, 2008, 12:12:42 PM
    Was at the Chase games at Geneseo the other night and a couple of things should be noted--Geneseo is playing without one of their best players and 4 year starter Tarik Kitson (foot injury??) so that may explain some of their offensive struggles with RW.  Their definitely not the deepest team so losing his 11ppg and 7rpg really hurts, although the bench players Simpson and Stevens played pretty well in his absence.  One other thing is for sure and that the U of R has an excellent chance at winning the first national championship in the last ten years or so.  I just don't see any weaknesses with them and now their getting Chemielowic and Juron back healthy!!  That being said, I can't wait to watch tonights semi's with some really interesting match-ups and contrasts in style of play.  On a final note, it's been a nice breath of fresh air to not hear UCgrad's pointless rants on this site over the last few days.  It's amazing what a loss will do!  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on January 11, 2008, 12:19:52 PM
    Amazing stat of the Day--Joe Canori has a whopping 6 total assists in 11 games this year.  I'm no math major, but that sounds like .5apg for a guard who has to attract extra attention at some point which allows others to be open!  WOW!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on January 11, 2008, 12:43:21 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on January 11, 2008, 12:10:20 PM
    Quote from: reelentless on January 11, 2008, 11:05:01 AMThese guys are still working on their nicknames


    Getting to know one another  .  .  .
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 11, 2008, 12:53:44 PM
    I love it.  +k (even though you appear to be from Cortland).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 11, 2008, 02:43:57 PM
    I think UofR has a shot.  They have to athletic bigs, 2 good sized great shooting fundamental wings, and a 4 year starting pg.  However, I see weaknesses, Their bigs are athletic but not the best, they dont have great post moves, and don't play the greatest Defense against other good post players (that they havnt seen yet this year).  National Championship has to be looked at a bigger level than teams that they've played so far.  Some of the teams out west and better NE teams have more talent at the forward positions.  Juron is not the greatest either.  That being said they are very good and they are strong enough at all the positions combined to win it all.  Their conf. play will tell us more about how good they are. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 11, 2008, 03:42:37 PM
    Looks like RIT sneaks away with a victory over Roberts, 72-71.  Nice match up for the fifth place game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on January 11, 2008, 03:49:19 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on January 11, 2008, 12:53:44 PM
    I love it.  +k (even though you appear to be from Cortland).

    No Jose, worse than Cortland (at least lately).  UC Parent!

    While I'm on, what are the chances and process for the E-8 adding another "downstate" team?  With the Stevens addition, the schedule this season is a lot less "convenient", both for the players and their fans.  Failing a league addition, can independent games be added to restore the Fri / Sat overnight possibility?   Adding a team to the league would probably effect the tournament format also?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 11, 2008, 04:07:48 PM
    Given how the loss went down on Wednesday, my comments on the matter here, it's sort of amazing to see how today's game ended.  Good for Colin Roy.

    QuoteROCHESTER, NY -- Colin Roy's (Malta, NY/Ballston Spa) layup with four seconds remaining proved to be the game-winning bucket as RIT edged past Roberts Wesleyan College 72-71 in the consolation round of the JPMorgan Chase Scholarship Tournament at the University of Rochester Friday afternoon.

    Roy took it coast -to-coast off an inbounds drove into the lane and layed the ball in with his left hand for the go-ahead bucket.

    http://www.ritathletics.com/News/mbb/2008/1/11/mbball011108.asp?path=mbb

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 11, 2008, 04:38:58 PM
    Quote from: reelentless on January 11, 2008, 03:49:19 PMNo Jose, worse than Cortland (at least lately).  UC Parent!

    I gotta be honest, I don't feel any ill will towards Utica.  But even if I did, it really would pale in comparison to my feelings toward that particular State School.  Ask the Fisher football guys.  It always tweaks them.

    Our feelings are directed at one particular UC fan. 

    Quote from: reelentless on January 11, 2008, 03:49:19 PMWhile I'm on, what are the chances and process for the E-8 adding another "downstate" team?  With the Stevens addition, the schedule this season is a lot less "convenient", both for the players and their fans.  Failing a league addition, can independent games be added to restore the Fri / Sat overnight possibility?   Adding a team to the league would probably effect the tournament format also?

    The E8 is going to add another football member very soon.  I doubt they will add another all sport member anytime soon.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 11, 2008, 05:53:05 PM
    its sad that roberts weslyn gets 'smoked' by ucgrad's standards, year in and year out in the chase tournament.  I mean the school can give out something like 5 scholarships and they cant beat d3 teams? thats pretty sad.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on January 11, 2008, 06:27:08 PM
    Reel- like Q i too have never heard the expression and it is one that I will use going forward (assuming you don't have a patent- that Q or bombers might enforce). Haven't seen Rocha cha cha play yet but I'm betting they will handle NYU pretty handily.  NYU bigs are slow and methodical but from my previous years observation no match for U of R bigs.  I'm truly hoping for a U of R versus Geneseo match up in the championship game.  And Bamm- I too am glad for Colin.  He's a great kid and he deserves to have an ending like that vs what happened at the Lakers court in ECAC a few years ago. Strong potential for Tiger / SJF match up too I think? That will be interesting...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 11, 2008, 07:21:53 PM
    Could be a night when 2 undefeated streaks fall. I'll go against the tide and pick Brockport to upset UR in a barnburner. And Naz wins a tight one against Geneseo.But I hope I'm wrong on that one.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 11, 2008, 08:07:04 PM
    Fisher just barely slips by Keuka, 83-80. Big night for Beigel with 29pts and 11 rebs. Newman has 17pts and 5 assts, while Franklin chips in 12 off the bench. Raquan Banks scores 26 for Keuka in the losing effort. Keuka leads by 14 at the 10 minute mark but can't hold on. This would have been an embarrassing loss for the Cardinals.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on January 11, 2008, 08:08:12 PM
    QuoteAnd Naz wins a tight one against Geneseo.But I hope I'm wrong on that one.

    You're right on both accounts.  Naz wins and it's a tight one, 70-68. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 11, 2008, 08:42:36 PM
    I think a lot of people were predicting Naz to win, especially with Kitson expected to miss that game for Geneseo. As I mentioned, the top two seeds almost never play each other in the final of the Chase. Without looking, I would bet that since I was about 5 years old the top two teams haven't met more than two or three times in the final. That's just the type of tourney that the Chase is. A lot of drama, a lot of upsets. Look at all the great finishes we've had, already.

    Bombers dominating Alfred at the half, 45-26. Looks like IC has that one in hand. Heading out for the night, have a good one all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 11, 2008, 08:47:06 PM

    You're right on both accounts.  Naz wins and it's a tight one, 70-68. 

    Sounds like it was a great game. Wish I could have been there
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 11, 2008, 10:02:36 PM
    Ithaca Wins 99-73 versus lowly Alfred squad. Alfred takes 2-0 lead Ithaca ties, takes a 4-0 lead and never looks back. Very balanced game for the Bombers lead by Louis Kail making his first career start and posting a double double with 21 and 11. Bostic follows suit with a double double as well.  Hopefully this game helped Ithaca right the ship and prepare them for a big upcoming week.

    Naz wins by 2 a big win for the empire 8 as all empire 8 teams win today in the chase tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 11, 2008, 10:17:18 PM
    Brockport hangs with the number one team in the land but can't pull it off.  Let's hope Naz gives UR a better game tomorrow than they did earlier this season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 12, 2008, 12:47:54 AM
    What happened to Alfred this year?  They've never really been an E8 contender, but it's sad to see Team PepBand sink into the Elmira UberSuck Zone.  Seems like every year AU has that one key guy, from Downey to EJ Docteur to Dillon Stein but they're all gone and I guess the Saxons couldn't find another in that mode in this class.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 12, 2008, 12:31:36 PM
    In other Friday night E8 action, homstanding Stevens takes care of Hartwick, 64-43. Hawks trail by only six at half before Stevens pull away in the second. Cocopuffs has 13 in a losing effort for Hartwick. The Ducks were paced by Waleed Farid's 23.

    Today's predictions:

    RIT over Fisher, 81-77. Just picking the home team (game is at RIT) in a contest between evenly-matched squads.

    Brockport over Geneseo, 79-71. Absence of Kitson hurts the Blue Knights a lot. Brockport's frenetic pace helps them pull away in the end.

    ELMIRA over Clarkson, 64-57. Let's just move on before I realize what I just did.

    UR over Nazareth, 74-59. No surprise that 'Port gave UR so much trouble with their style of play and wealth of individual talent, but too much firepower for UR in this one. Naz has no chance without Ryan McAdam. No shame in losing to the top team in the nation.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 12, 2008, 03:05:33 PM
    Any updates on the RIT/Fisher game? Fisher's LiveStats froze with RIT leading by eight, 49-41, with a shade over 12 minutes remaining.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 12, 2008, 04:20:44 PM
    RIT wins 73-66.  Carson dominated with 24/11 (8 for 10 from the field).  It could have been more, he was 8-19 from the free throw line.

    Actually, that's not all that terrible for him.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on January 12, 2008, 10:34:33 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 10, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
    Bobby Whyte: 4pts, 5rebs, 2 TO's in 25 mins...stellar, especially considering both of Cortland's bigs had big nights. Ladies and gentlemen, Utica's savior.

    Speaking of which, Isaiah Smalt comes through with a nice showing for Fisher in the tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Tags on January 12, 2008, 10:35:39 PM
    Any of you guys watch the Keuka / Fisher game? How did Keuka look?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 13, 2008, 03:53:38 PM
    Looks like the Naz/UR game was closer than the score indicated. The game was tied with under 5 minutes remaining before UR pulled away. Good effort from Naz considering they were missing one of their tallest, most versatile players in Ryan McAdam. The difference was on the glass where UR outrebounded Naz, 38-16.

    Prediction: Stevens over Utica, 69-58.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 13, 2008, 08:30:50 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 10, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 10, 2008, 09:28:08 PM
    The SUNYAC board reports Cortland put a whoopin on 'em.  Remember, UCGrad45, you're only as good as your last game.

    And don't forget that Ithaca "smoked" Cortland (by UCgrad's standards). Hey UCgrad, if you "hammered" Ithaca by 12, what did Cortland just do to you by 17? Violated? Annhilated? Pick your adjective. Early prediction as to UCgrad's excuse: The referees didn't show up so they used three Cortland phys-ed teachers instead. I guess my wish for a meteor to hit the gym just after tip went unanswered. Hey, I couldn't root for Cortland.

    Bobby Whyte: 4pts, 5rebs, 2 TO's in 25 mins...stellar, especially considering both of Cortland's bigs had big nights. Ladies and gentlemen, Utica's savior.


    Imagine what Cortland would do to the inferior IC team. We are looking at a 35 point difference.

    Does someone else's accomplishment make you feel better about getting smoked?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 13, 2008, 08:31:50 PM
    Tough loss for UC tonight. A foul shot with 33 seconds left proves to be the difference at Stevens. 60-59.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 13, 2008, 08:33:31 PM
    Speaking of the cortland game, have to give props to Mike Lewis. I wanted him to play at UC. Coached him when he was in High School. Kid can play.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 13, 2008, 09:14:47 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 13, 2008, 08:30:50 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 10, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 10, 2008, 09:28:08 PM
    The SUNYAC board reports Cortland put a whoopin on 'em.  Remember, UCGrad45, you're only as good as your last game.

    And don't forget that Ithaca "smoked" Cortland (by UCgrad's standards). Hey UCgrad, if you "hammered" Ithaca by 12, what did Cortland just do to you by 17? Violated? Annhilated? Pick your adjective. Early prediction as to UCgrad's excuse: The referees didn't show up so they used three Cortland phys-ed teachers instead. I guess my wish for a meteor to hit the gym just after tip went unanswered. Hey, I couldn't root for Cortland.

    Bobby Whyte: 4pts, 5rebs, 2 TO's in 25 mins...stellar, especially considering both of Cortland's bigs had big nights. Ladies and gentlemen, Utica's savior.


    Imagine what Cortland would do to the inferior IC team. We are looking at a 35 point difference.

    Does someone else's accomplishment make you feel better about getting smoked?

    You walked right into that one, pal.  Ithaca 62, Cortland 53, December 4th.  How embarrassing for you to look so foolish in your grand return to the E8 board.  Enjoy playing out the string and be sure to dial up E8TV to watch 4 teams that are not Utica play in the conference tournament.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 13, 2008, 09:16:52 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 13, 2008, 08:30:50 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 10, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 10, 2008, 09:28:08 PM
    The SUNYAC board reports Cortland put a whoopin on 'em.  Remember, UCGrad45, you're only as good as your last game.

    And don't forget that Ithaca "smoked" Cortland (by UCgrad's standards). Hey UCgrad, if you "hammered" Ithaca by 12, what did Cortland just do to you by 17? Violated? Annhilated? Pick your adjective. Early prediction as to UCgrad's excuse: The referees didn't show up so they used three Cortland phys-ed teachers instead. I guess my wish for a meteor to hit the gym just after tip went unanswered. Hey, I couldn't root for Cortland.

    Bobby Whyte: 4pts, 5rebs, 2 TO's in 25 mins...stellar, especially considering both of Cortland's bigs had big nights. Ladies and gentlemen, Utica's savior.


    Imagine what Cortland would do to the inferior IC team. We are looking at a 35 point difference.

    Does someone else's accomplishment make you feel better about getting smoked?

    Why imagine when I can tell you what would happen: 12/4/07-- Ithaca 62, Cortland 53. Close to your estimated 35-point Cortland victory, though. But I'm sure your projections are much more accurate than a real game already played between the two teams. You really backed into that one, Idon'tresearchanythingbeforeImakedumbassertionsGRAD45.

    You don't post for over a week and then you come with that weak garbage. Here's a clue, Ithaca plays Cortland in most sports. You don't have to look hard to find the results, either. Thank you for confirming everything we already knew about the depth of your research.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 13, 2008, 09:50:56 PM
    WOW, where you researching that since thrusday night?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 13, 2008, 09:59:20 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 13, 2008, 03:53:38 PM
    Looks like the Naz/UR game was closer than the score indicated. The game was tied with under 5 minutes remaining before UR pulled away. Good effort from Naz considering they were missing one of their tallest, most versatile players in Ryan McAdam. The difference was on the glass where UR outrebounded Naz, 38-16.

    Prediction: Stevens over Utica, 69-58.

    GB15, the game was broadcast from U of R's website for free and i watched the second half. Was a very close game down the stretch. Naz missed some foul shots down towards the end and culdn't finish. However they kept it alot closer than the first game and with out Ryan McAdam. I give credit to the U of R, their expirence showed down the stretch in that game and in the game versus Brockport the night before. Also U of R shot 23 of 26 (or something close to that) from the FT line and Ndubizu  only missed 2 (8-10) and he is like a 57% shooter the annoucers said. The FT's helped Rochester and hurt Naz.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 13, 2008, 10:36:04 PM
    Actually, it's called having a life, you should try it some time.

    Listen, IC had there butts handed to them by UC. 8-4 series lead since 2004.

    Celebrating every time UC loses a game will not erase that. It might make you feel better about your inferiority complex, but the scores don't lie. UC owns IC. Has for quite a while. It is hilarious that you have to jump up and down like you won the lotto every time somebody ELSE beats them. Ha, take that UC! We still got outplayed in every aspect of the game when both teams were healthy, and don't have a single player that has made NCAA's, but cortland beat you!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 13, 2008, 10:36:48 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on January 13, 2008, 09:50:56 PM
    WOW, where you researching that since thrusday night?

    Drunk much?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on January 13, 2008, 10:39:15 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 13, 2008, 09:16:52 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 13, 2008, 08:30:50 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 10, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 10, 2008, 09:28:08 PM
    The SUNYAC board reports Cortland put a whoopin on 'em.  Remember, UCGrad45, you're only as good as your last game.

    And don't forget that Ithaca "smoked" Cortland (by UCgrad's standards). Hey UCgrad, if you "hammered" Ithaca by 12, what did Cortland just do to you by 17? Violated? Annhilated? Pick your adjective. Early prediction as to UCgrad's excuse: The referees didn't show up so they used three Cortland phys-ed teachers instead. I guess my wish for a meteor to hit the gym just after tip went unanswered. Hey, I couldn't root for Cortland.

    Bobby Whyte: 4pts, 5rebs, 2 TO's in 25 mins...stellar, especially considering both of Cortland's bigs had big nights. Ladies and gentlemen, Utica's savior.


    Imagine what Cortland would do to the inferior IC team. We are looking at a 35 point difference.

    Does someone else's accomplishment make you feel better about getting smoked?

    Why imagine when I can tell you what would happen: 12/4/07-- Ithaca 62, Cortland 53. Close to your estimated 35-point Cortland victory, though. But I'm sure your projections are much more accurate than a real game already played between the two teams. You really backed into that one, Idon'tresearchanythingbeforeImakedumbassertionsGRAD45.

    You don't post for over a week and then you come with that weak garbage. Here's a clue, Ithaca plays Cortland in most sports. You don't have to look hard to find the results, either. Thank you for confirming everything we already knew about the depth of your research.


    LOL, "you don't post for a week" and "you don't research".

    Wow, message board superhero really told me. Gee, I guess that really means that UC didn't smoke IC last time out, and 2 out of every 3 times since this years seniors were freshmen. Maybe you should "smite" me.

    I do have to give you credit though. At least you like your team. It only took me 7 attempts at asking groups of students at Ithaca before someone could tell me where the basketball team played.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on January 13, 2008, 10:56:29 PM
    Stevens / Utica game was a great game and a tale of two halves.  Stevens controlled the first, finishing up 35 -24 at the break.  Utica came back in the second playing a very effective zone defense with Herring and McClendon leading the scoring.  The game was close or tied over the last ten minutes.   

    At the end , Utica, down 1, had the ball in their hands and 30 sec on the clock.  A contested jumper by Herring didn't fall.  Ultimately though, the outcome was the result of Stevens making free throws down the stretch and Utica missing a few.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 13, 2008, 11:47:47 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 13, 2008, 10:36:48 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on January 13, 2008, 09:50:56 PM
    WOW, where you researching that since thrusday night?

    Drunk much?

    Sorry i was sober chief, and we didn't celebrate at all. You came on and made a unfounded statement attacking IC saying we would get smoked by 35 when in reality we already won by 9. Ithaca posters reacted to that statement, get the facts straight bud.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 13, 2008, 11:54:21 PM
    Where do you keep coming up with this garbage about "smoking" people in a game that was two-possession with 90 seconds left.  UC owns IC.  Tremendous stuff, really, win the next 30 games in a row and you'll even the all-time series.  This conference would be perfectly justified in kicking your overall worthless programs in all sports to the NEAC where you belong.  Go start a rivalry with Cazenovia or something and leave real athletic programs to themselves.

    EDIT: Why don't you go smite me again, you old hack.  I know one Utica alum personally who thinks you're an embarassment to his school.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 14, 2008, 12:28:38 AM
    Ouch. Quit while you have some dignity, UCgrad.
    Title: WICB's coverage of Bombers basketball Tuesday
    Post by: WICB Sports on January 14, 2008, 04:27:33 PM
    Tuesday's men's basketball game between Potsdam and Ithaca College will be broadcast on 92 WICB starting at 6 p.m.  The game can be heard locally in Ithaca at 91.7 FM and online at www.wicb.org.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on January 15, 2008, 02:48:53 AM
    Bombers- trust me when I tell you Elmira is not the absolute dog of the past (there for the kicking).  They cleaned Clarkson's clock.  They play a frenetic, frenzied zone with excellent help side defense and they have an overabundance of youthful overachieving enthusiam.  The style of play suits them perfectly as their bigs are pretty suspect, but the guards are extremely quick so they can collapse and recover so, unless you have a player  a la Burton, who can get off an accurate 3 off in the blink of an of an eye you could have problems.  These kids played with heart and beat Clarkson even worst than the scoreboard indicated.  Honestly Clarkson looked awful but Elmira I believe is on a 3 game win streak albeit against "modest" opponents and they will surprise people especially at home this year.  I'm truly afraid for AUpep because I've seen both teams play and I think AU will have missed the saxons sole victory of the season over Caz the college (if they played caz the poster they might have been winless).  P.S. Ithaca gets to avenge its early loss against Potsdam. My Bostic's back and you better watch out! oohla, oohla My Bostic's back!    (and my apologies to Marvellette's or whichever group sang that song!!)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 15, 2008, 07:57:08 AM
    Fisher and Naz play tonight, at Nazareth.  Is it just me or did these games used to be played on the weekend?  Now they've got both Naz/Fisher tilts scheduled for a Tuesday.  Kind of a bummer.

    Anyway, Fisher could really use the win.  But I don't think it's happening.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 15, 2008, 09:42:19 AM
    If the administrators at Fisher and Naz are thinking anything like the administrators at IC and Cortland, I presume they are trying to reduce the liklihood of an injury by playing the game during the week.  For example, Cortaca starts at noon to cut down on the pre-game drinking time.  Maybe they moved Fisher-Naz because fewer students will because they think (probably hope) that fewer students will get ass drunk mid-week.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 15, 2008, 10:00:43 AM
    I don't think they put too much into scheduling the game.  Either way, its going to be out of control and sold out before the girls game starts.  The sad thing is most of the crazy loud students dont even get in because parents, local grown ups get their before hand while the students are still drinking.  But in past years pretty much every other year, at least one of the games is played when the schools are on break which is awful since the students are even on campus yet. Although the games still get sold out, just the crowd is much different. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 15, 2008, 10:18:38 AM
    The only other reason you would play a conference game on a Tuesday night is if you are playing your travel partner (ie IC-Elmira).  But Fisher and Naz aren't travel partners (at least they weren't when I was in the league, has that changed?).

    Of course the schools put a lot into scheduling.  If they didn't in the past, the brawl has certainly changed that. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 15, 2008, 10:23:26 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on January 15, 2008, 10:18:38 AM
    The only other reason you would play a conference game on a Tuesday night is if you are playing your travel partner (ie IC-Elmira).  But Fisher and Naz aren't travel partners (at least they weren't when I was in the league, has that changed?).

    Of course the schools put a lot into scheduling.  If they didn't in the past, the brawl has certainly changed that. 

    Naz and RIT are still travel partners. 

    I agree with you, this has to be a product of that incident.  The part that still confuses me though is that I don't remember it being that way last season -- although I would readily accept that is just me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 15, 2008, 10:29:54 AM
    It may not have been that way last year Bamm.  Most likely the league schedules a few years out so teams can arrange non-conference games.  I would guess, without knowing, that the schedule for the seasons after the incident were already set and this was the first chance they had to move it (if they did, in fact, play on the weekend since the incident).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 15, 2008, 12:24:37 PM
    Pep sees that the schedule is nothing like years past. AU was "travel partners" with Fisher, Naz with RIT, Ithaca with Elmira, Hartwick with Utica... adding Stevens changed all that.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 15, 2008, 12:24:50 PM
    Pep Jr., with broken foot and commanded to stay off the basketball court for four months and no running for three months, sends text message to Pep Friday night that reads, "Dad, what r u doing tonight?"

    Pep texts back, as slowly as ever: "Ballin at Davis (Gym)"

    Within seconds, Pep gets another message from Pep Jr.: "I hate you."

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on January 15, 2008, 12:53:29 PM
    No offense Pep, but who cares about Pep Jr.'s foot injury and your text messaging dialogue??  Come on now buddy, let's stick to the important issues ala is the AU sub shop really closed down??  They make a mean turkey sub!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 15, 2008, 12:54:17 PM
    Predictions for this evening's games:


    NAZ over Fisher, 71-69.
    ITHACA over Potsdam, 79-73.
    Hartwick over GREEN MOUNTAIN, 66-59.
    St. Lawrence over ELMIRA, 69-65.
    FREDONIA tops Alfred, 74-62.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 15, 2008, 12:58:23 PM
    Quote from: Razor on January 15, 2008, 12:53:29 PM
    No offense Pep, but who cares about Pep Jr.'s foot injury and your text messaging dialogue??  Come on now buddy, let's stick to the important issues ala is the AU sub shop really closed down??  They make a mean turkey sub!!

    I was all ready to come to Pep's defense until you made a sudden change of course.

    +k.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 15, 2008, 04:53:41 PM
    Quote from: Razor on January 15, 2008, 12:53:29 PM
    No offense Pep, but who cares about Pep Jr.'s foot injury and your text messaging dialogue??  Come on now buddy, let's stick to the important issues ala is the AU sub shop really closed down??  They make a mean turkey sub!!

    After 40 years, indeed, the Alfred Sub & Pizza Shop is now closed.  :'(
    PEP preferred their roast beef sub with everything on it, easy on the PEPpers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 15, 2008, 06:49:29 PM
    Fisher really needs a win tonight. They can still salvage the season if they go on a run here in the next few weeks. If they can get a 3 win week they may have themselves on a little bit of the inside track for a top 2 seed. Right now I am more worried about getting into the conference tourny, so these next few weeks are huge.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 15, 2008, 07:14:08 PM
    IC seems to have snapped out of their funk for one night at least.  Bombers blowing out Potsdam at the Bulb tonight 58-43 with 12:05 left.

    EDIT: I should be more careful with my choice of verbs.  Potsdam hanging around now, 72-63 with 3 minutes to go.  Burton has 26 for Ithaca.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 15, 2008, 07:57:53 PM
    Ithaca 83, Potsdam 75 the final.  Sean Burton 29 points on 50 percent shooting; hey everybody look, it's Jeff Bostic! 24 points, 13 rebounds, 3 steals and 2 blocks.  Damon Brown leads Potsdam with 19 and 7.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 15, 2008, 08:27:04 PM
    Ithaca needed to get back on track and the schedule was pretty kind to them.  Hard to find a team playing worse than Potsdam at the moment. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 15, 2008, 08:45:40 PM
    well that was a disapointing half for Fisher.

    This team reminds me of the team they had back in 01-02 (the last time they did not win the E-8). They have some talent, but it seems raw and undisciplined. Not a lot of hustle, and they just don't look comfortable running the offense...The only thing keeping me going is that in 03-04 Fisher came back and went 21-4. Hopefully Kornaker is can get this team headed in the right direction and soon.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 15, 2008, 09:50:26 PM
    That was embarrassing...... Fisher better be flawless at home because i dont think this team is going to be be able to get a lot of wins on the road.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 15, 2008, 10:01:05 PM
    Wow, Naz wins by 17, 73-56. That was embarrassing for Fisher. I certainly did not see that coming. Kornaker has to right the ship. Fisher has lost 3 of 4 and almost fell to lowly Keuka in the Chase Tourney. I'm not so much surprised that Naz won, but the fact that Naz kept the lead above 20 for most of the 2nd half without Ryan McAdam is pretty startling.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 15, 2008, 10:16:34 PM
    I'm not too surprised by that result.  Naz is playing with a ton of confidence right now after the Chase and Fisher is reeling. 

    The good news for Fisher is they get four straight at home to figure it out.  The bad news -- it starts with Stevens.

    Good luck with that.* 





    * Not really.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on January 15, 2008, 11:02:07 PM
    Bostic does matter...  as far as Potsdam play worst than anybody  - see Clarkson results- Elmira takes them to task by 16 and the real game wasn't even that close.  That being said I think that the the saxons may be even a step down from that.     

    P.S. Razor  I'm glad you weren't really messing with Pep..   Alot of people would come to his defense.  Pep- did Jr have to have the screws put in?  Mine broke both of his at different times and now sets off the metal detectors at airports because of the 3 inch screws.  Man I don't remember getting hurt so much when I was a kid!!??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 15, 2008, 11:13:20 PM
    Bostic played great tonight and so did Burton. Bostic had an alley-oop go off the back rim towards the end of the game that would have really broke Potsdam's back. Potsdam hit a few threes at teh end to make the score closer than it was. Potsdam big men did nothing inside and two potsdam players (Dike and Williams) wouldn't shot from 15 feet out with guy guarding them inside the paint. Ithaca had control of the game throughout and played well.  The Bombers are on the right track for the weekend versus Naz and RIT. Its a big weekend for the Bombers as the trips to Rochester are always tough and this year both RIT and NAZ are playing pretty good basketball, even more so right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 15, 2008, 11:45:24 PM
    so any positives for fisher? beigel had a big night i see, 1 pt, 2 boards, 1 to, 1 blk, 1 stl, 2 fls, in 10 mins of playing time. or did the refs just hand that game to naz??

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 16, 2008, 08:29:20 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 15, 2008, 11:45:24 PM
    so any positives for fisher? beigel had a big night i see, 1 pt, 2 boards, 1 to, 1 blk, 1 stl, 2 fls, in 10 mins of playing time. or did the refs just hand that game to naz??



    From the parts of the first half i watched on the computer before Naz was blowing them out it just seemed that NAZ was just playing harder and wanted it more. The just got the ball and ran and scored a lot in transition and also in half court sets. I don't think the refs played a role in the game at all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 16, 2008, 09:16:02 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 15, 2008, 11:45:24 PM
    so any positives for fisher? beigel had a big night i see, 1 pt, 2 boards, 1 to, 1 blk, 1 stl, 2 fls, in 10 mins of playing time. or did the refs just hand that game to naz??

    Refs had nothing to do with that one.  Naz is better and they played harder.  At one point this game was 60-34.   

    In fact, looking at the box score, Fisher shot more and made more free throws.  Naz was whistled for more fouls. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2008, 09:37:57 AM
    Fisher is a below average team when either smalt or beigel get limited minutes either due to injurys or fouls.  Both players need to get 25+ minutes in order for Fisher to beat good teams.  Seeing how Smalt is still getting back into things and Beigal averages 1 foul per minute, this is unlikely. 

    In the Naz game beigal picked up 2 quick ones and was forced to sit, game was lost right there.


    They probably wouldnt have one either way at Naz and by the way they played, but it would have been much closer.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 16, 2008, 10:55:10 AM
    UCgrad must be experiencing great confusion while he stares at that IC/Potsdam box score. Potsdam won the rebounding battle (+2), won the turnover battle (+5), and was a +11 pts from the field and still got beat rather handily (game was 72-56 with under 5 mins to go).

    Again, the moral of the story: those stats are worthless and not telling at all if you face a good team who can get to the FT line and score (which is a skill).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on January 16, 2008, 12:29:07 PM
    Coach Kornaker will get the Cards moving in the right direction. Fisher will turn the corner and be productive again---The Cards have too much talent to flounder too long. He will push the right buttons--Count on it!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 16, 2008, 12:39:34 PM
    Waleed Farid makes the D3 hoops team of the week.  In other news UC Grad has been MIA since sunday night.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2008, 01:45:57 PM
    I hope so Scooter.........   I think they will turn it around but might be too late.  They do not have enough depth at the forward positions nor enough scoring ability at the guard positions.  They need to start playing better defense, taking care of the ball better, and taking better shots.  Most importantly need beigal and smalt on the floor at the same time almost the entire game against good teams.  I dont know if i see that happening, we'll see.   I still feel like there is some serious chemistry issues, and inconsistency in player rotations, which leads to less confidence and confusion of roles.  Baltz obviously knows he has to shoot the ball alot, newman needs to score more, need more from bearden, and a big to step up off the bench.  Beigal and smalt need to stay healthy and out of foul trouble.  I think its going to be too much to get right, they do have talent but not enough to win games on off nights like previous years.  They dont even have the most talent in the league, so they are going to need to do more things right to maximize the talent they do have.

    That being said, as mentioned earlier they have 4 straight home games, if thought back to 2002-03 season fisher went on to win 11 straight and win the league, which was started on 5 or 6 consecutive home games.  Fisher always seems to find themselves at home, lets home this is the case.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on January 16, 2008, 02:26:13 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 16, 2008, 10:55:10 AM
    UCgrad must be experiencing great confusion while he stares at that IC/Potsdam box score. Potsdam won the rebounding battle (+2), won the turnover battle (+5), and was a +11 pts from the field and still got beat rather handily (game was 72-56 with under 5 mins to go).

    Again, the moral of the story: those stats are worthless and not telling at all if you face a good team who can get to the FT line and score (which is a skill).

    But then again, IC shot 18/40 (45%) from inside vs. 16/49 (32%) for Potsdam.  If livestats was close to accurate, Potsdam must have missed a dozen layups.  The Bears poor 2 FG% likely translated into some of those 21 offensive rebounds.

    Getting to the FT line & scoring is a skill, but one that the zebras (by what they call & don't call) have some influence over.

    I think the game was within 6 pts (2 possessions) with less than a minute to play, I wouldn't call that a blowout.  The only score that counts is the final.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 16, 2008, 03:10:10 PM
    Quote from: Razor on January 15, 2008, 12:53:29 PM
    No offense Pep, but who cares about Pep Jr.'s foot injury and your text messaging dialogue??  Come on now buddy, let's stick to the important issues ala is the AU sub shop really closed down??  They make a mean turkey sub!!

    Pep posts about a text message exchange with his son and suddenly text messaging is BANNED for recruiting purposes. How the heck is Pep, who has been working to improve his text messaging skills, going to bring in the new sousaphone recruit to fill the huge shoes of graduating (retiring) AWE wrestler Dr. Phil?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 16, 2008, 03:17:28 PM
    Quote from: thebear on January 16, 2008, 02:26:13 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 16, 2008, 10:55:10 AM
    UCgrad must be experiencing great confusion while he stares at that IC/Potsdam box score. Potsdam won the rebounding battle (+2), won the turnover battle (+5), and was a +11 pts from the field and still got beat rather handily (game was 72-56 with under 5 mins to go).

    Again, the moral of the story: those stats are worthless and not telling at all if you face a good team who can get to the FT line and score (which is a skill).

    But then again, IC shot 18/40 (45%) from inside vs. 16/49 (32%) for Potsdam.  If livestats was close to accurate, Potsdam must have missed a dozen layups.  The Bears poor 2 FG% likely translated into some of those 21 offensive rebounds.

    Getting to the FT line & scoring is a skill, but one that the zebras (by what they call & don't call) have some influence over.

    I think the game was within 6 pts (2 possessions) with less than a minute to play, I wouldn't call that a blowout.  The only score that counts is the final.



    Good players get to the line. I think Burton and Bostic got to the line a combined 27 times (Ithaca had 43 attempts) last night. There are reasons for this that go beyond refereeing. Burton is tough to stay with and you need to crowd him everywhere he goes or he'll pop a three in your eye. Plus,I don't know many defenders that he can't beat off the dribble. Bostic is an incredible athlete and can be difficult to defend. Potsdam was whistled for 24 fouls, Ithaca for 19. I really don't think that's a significant disparity, especially when one considers that with 6 minutes left in the game Potsdam had only been whistled for two more fouls than Ithaca. It just so happens that Ithaca was in the act of shooting when they were fouled much more than Potsdam.

    I'm aware of what the score was late in the game. Not sure of the relevance, though. Don't know too many teams who'd think they have even a decent chance to win when they're down 6 with 30 seconds to go and the ball in the other team's hands and said other team has shot over 70% for the game and their PG and best player shoots nearly 90% from the FT line. Not trying to be hostile, just trying to illustrate my point that I don't think the game was ever really "in doubt," if you will.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 16, 2008, 05:01:51 PM
    GB15, it wasn't a blowout last night.  It was 20 point or so margin for a while but Potsdam definitely made a run at it and kept it within 10 points the whole way, even getting to within 5 with 30 seconds left I think.  This was no more a blowout than that IC-Utica game was.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 16, 2008, 05:03:38 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on January 16, 2008, 12:39:34 PM
    Waleed Farid makes the D3 hoops team of the week.  In other news UC Grad has been MIA since sunday night.

    Oh, I'm sure he's around, I've mysteriously lost 2 karma points in the last 24 hours and change.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 16, 2008, 10:34:06 PM
    I don't think it was a blowout. I don't think it was a "smoking." I think it was a comfortable victory for the Bombers. Remember, in the Utica game, Ruffrage stole the ball cleanly from Herring and would have coasted in for a layup, making it a 3-pt game, but was instead called for a questionable foul a good second after the steal.
    Title: WICB's coverage of Bombers basketball this weekend
    Post by: WICB Sports on January 17, 2008, 03:07:20 PM
    WICB's coverage of Bombers basketball this weekend begins with Friday night's women's Empire 8 contest between Ithaca College and Nazareth College, with coverage beginning at 6 p.m.  Then at 8 p.m., WICB will have the men's contest between the Bombers and the Golden Flyers.

    On Saturday, WICB's coverage begins at 2 p.m. as the Bombers' women's team travels to RIT.  Coverage continues at 4 p.m. as the Bombers' men's team takes on the RIT men's team.

    WICB is available online at www.wicb.org and can be heard locally in the Ithaca area at 91.7 FM.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 17, 2008, 10:35:26 PM
    Big match-ups tomorrow night (home in CAPS)

    SJFC- Stevens
    RIT-Elmira
    NAZ-Ithaca
    HARTWICK-Utica


    -Can Rob Kornaker and SJFC 'right the ship' and save themselves with a win? Hand Stevens their second conference loss?
    -Can Elmira squeeze out a win Fri night and maybe catch RIT looking ahead to their Saturday match with Ithaca?
    -Can Naz fend off IC without Ryan McAdams? Big pg matchup between Corey McAdams and Sean Burton - could be very interesting.
    -Can Utica beat the powerful duo of Jan Coco and the refs?!

    I say...

    Stevens over Fisher by 11...Fisher sticks around for a while, but sorry, not going to happen. RIT wins against Elmira by single digits. Hartwick at home. And toss up between IC-Naz.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 18, 2008, 12:35:05 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 17, 2008, 10:35:26 PM
    Big match-ups tomorrow night (home in CAPS)

    SJFC- Stevens
    RIT-Elmira
    NAZ-Ithaca
    HARTWICK-Utica


    -Can Rob Kornaker and SJFC 'right the ship' and save themselves with a win? Hand Stevens their second conference loss?
    -Can Elmira squeeze out a win Fri night and maybe catch RIT looking ahead to their Saturday match with Ithaca?
    -Can Naz fend off IC without Ryan McAdams? Big pg matchup between Corey McAdams and Sean Burton - could be very interesting.
    -Can Utica beat the powerful duo of Jan Coco and the refs?!

    I say...

    Stevens over Fisher by 11...Fisher sticks around for a while, but sorry, not going to happen. RIT wins against Elmira by single digits. Hartwick at home. And toss up between IC-Naz.


    I like what you said, I can see Fisher hanging around but struggling when Beigel fouls out for them and losing. Stevens thought coming into the Empire 8 Fisher would be the team to beat, so I see it being a very good game. Stevens has also been playing with less players and playing their studs big minutes (see the Utica game) so that could make things interesting after the 6 hour trip to Rochester. Assuming they aren't already there.

    I think Elmira will keep it close but lose. I also take Hartwick with the help of the refs.

    I think Ithaca wins a high scoring affair by 6-8 points, score in the 80s to 90s. Both teams like to score but Ithaca also plays defense so that in my mind gives a slight edge to the Bombers. I thought Naz had some defensive lapses when I saw them in the Chase tourney vs. RIT and that let RIT back in the game. Should be a very good game and some great match-ups overall. Burton and McAdam, Canori Vs. Ithaca D (has always been a good match-up). And Naz's bigs vs. Bostic, Kail, and Brown. Tyler Smith has had a few good games versus Ithaca in the past. Also Bostic and Kail have been playing great basketball the past few games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on January 18, 2008, 08:02:05 AM
    The Stevens-Fisher game could be a turn the season around game for the Cardinals. A big win at Stevens might be just the trick for the high scoring Cardinals. They need to defend and control the boards. Big game for Biegel. Fisher at the buzzer. Good luck Cards
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 18, 2008, 09:06:26 AM
    Quote from: scooterman on January 18, 2008, 08:02:05 AM
    The Stevens-Fisher game could be a turn the season around game for the Cardinals. A big win at Stevens might be just the trick for the high scoring Cardinals. They need to defend and control the boards. Big game for Biegel. Fisher at the buzzer. Good luck Cards

    Just a couple of minor clarifications, in the interest of "keepin it real."

    The game is at Fisher.
    Fisher isn't high-scoring.  They are fifth in the conference in points per game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 18, 2008, 09:07:21 AM
    Pep is confident that the Saxons will not suffer another conference loss tonight in E8 action.

    Stevens over SJF (sorry, Fisher fans, the "dynasty" is sinking)
    RIT over Elmira (Tigers snatch a species not-so-endangered anymore)
    Ithaca over NAZ (Bombers keep E8 hopes alive by grounding Flyers)
    Utica over HARTWICK (and UCGrad comes out of hiding)

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 18, 2008, 11:20:35 AM
    Predictions

    RIT handles Elmira, 76-61. Say what you will about the improvement of Elmira, but the Soaring Eagles will have difficulties with RIT. The Tigers coast to a comfortable win.

    FISHER upsets Stevens, 69-67. My gut is guiding me on this one. Fisher has lost 3 of 4 and needs this one to get their season back on track. Stevens may be without Passalacqua who also missed the victory over Utica. I have a feeling that Fisher sprints out behind hot 3-point shooting and then hangs on in this one.

    UTICA over Hartwick, 62-53. Honestly, who cares?

    Ithaca over NAZ, 84-81. The game of the weekend. I would've actually picked Naz in this one had they not been coming off tough games in the Chase against RIT, Geneseo and UR, and had they not played Fisher earlier this week. This is their 5th game in 9 days and all have been huge games for them. Settling back into the middle of the conference schedule, I kinda see this as a letdown game for Naz. I think Ithaca comes into this one with a little bit more of an edge to them--they don't want to be facing a weekend sweep going to RIT on Saturday afternoon. IC needs more from Leahy tonight than they've been getting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 18, 2008, 11:29:54 AM
    interesting predictions, have to say I cant even make one. I dont know what the hell to expect from the E8 teams year.  Have not seen Stevens play, Hartwick has hot hands Coco, RIT is solid but not good, Ithaca is talented but still not where they need to be for easy predictions, Fisher i dont even know what is going on there, NAZ goes through defensive lapses, Utica can beat anybody in the conf and lose to anybody in the conf, Elmira is actually playing good right now? Alfred well they are easy to predict they are awful. 

    Not sure if this is a make or break game for Fisher but definately is a big one.  If they lose to the team that is likely to win the conf and win the just about the rest of their conf game, it doesnt do too much damage to the cardinals.  As long as Fisher splits with Naz and gets some other wins they will get in the tourny.  This year more than any, once in the tourny the team that gets hot, maybe they will be an really late bloomer this year who knows (can only hope haha).  Luckily their lost against RIT doesnt really matter, they got the important one during conf. play.  the loss to Naz was bad but was on Naz home court so again not the worst of losses.   Their two losses are to the top 2 seeds in the tourny thus far (barring ithaca, we'll know more about how good they are during their first Naz matchup this weekend)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 18, 2008, 10:31:37 PM
    Just talked to some of the Bombers, big win at Naz. Had an 8 point lead at the half and started out the second half on fire and just put it on Naz 91-78. Big games from Burton (27 points) Bostic (21 and 12) and Brendan Rogers (23 Points).  Huge win for the Bombers who shot 60 percent in the second half and 40 percent from three for the game. Any news on Fisher vs. Stevens, heard Fisher was up at the half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 18, 2008, 10:55:40 PM
    Finals Tonight

    IC 91, Naz 78 as BomberSquadron mentioned...very nice road win for Ithaca, is this the start of Same Ol' Naz?

    Fisher thumps Stevens 71-59.  Congrats to Stevens on becoming the Hawai'i of the E8.  Death at home and kittens on the road.  SJF with four in double figures; Beigel and Baltz 13 each.  Passalacqua leads the Ducks with 15.  Big bad Waleed Farid 3-12 from the floor, finishes with 9, 9 and 5.

    Utica pulls one out at Hartwick 60-54.  No box on the E8 site.

    RIT wastes Elmira 70-56.  Why did we think this was going to be close?  It's Elmira.  Barrett Zeinfeld had 19 points for the Tigers; I assume this puts him at about 5,000 career points in what feels like his 9-year college career.

    EDIT: Also on the RIT front, former Tiger Bob Bevilacqua stars on ESPNU; the Canisius walk-on scores 10 points to spark the Griffs to major upset over archrival Niagara (GB15 is surely not happy) and court-storming ensues.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 18, 2008, 11:00:55 PM
    Utica-Wick stats: Herring 25-5-4 with 2 steals, 15 and 7 for McClendon.  Cocopuffs dropped 20 and AJ Beaulieu had 15 for the Hawks.  Beaulieu missed a 3 with 32 seconds left that would have tied it and Dennis Munch seals it with two key late free throws.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 19, 2008, 11:24:03 AM
    Fisher recoups at Home getting a big win.  Could be the start of something good, although i think they will still be inconsistent until the end of the season.  They really needed that win if they want a chance at hosting the tourny. 

    Ithaca beats Naz which is also big.  The conf is wide open right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 19, 2008, 12:02:34 PM
    Nice win for the Bombers last night. Looks like they just buried Naz in the 2nd half of last night's game. I wonder if all those big, emotional games of the last week or so caught up with Naz. Plus, I think last night was a game Ithaca had been looking towards since they hadn't really won a road game against a quality opponent yet. Whatever the reason, it was a nice win for Ithaca.

    Ithaca can make a statement that they're a contender for the regular season title if they can win at RIT today. Most teams don't sweep the Naz/RIT road trip so today could be huge. After today, the Bombers have only three conference road games and Fisher will be the only tough one (the others are Alfred and Elmira). So today is a big one.

    PREDICTIONS

    RIT topples Ithaca, 82-74. RIT is a tough team and Ithaca hasn't been playing well in the afternoon road games in conference.

    Stevens handles ALFRED, 70-57. Blah.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 19, 2008, 12:14:15 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 19, 2008, 12:02:34 PM
    PREDICTIONS

    RIT topples Ithaca, 82-74. RIT is a tough team and Ithaca hasn't been playing well in the afternoon road games in conference.

    Stevens handles ALFRED, 70-57. Blah.

    Ithaca is very hot right now, i think they continue the streak tonight. I think it will be close game, hopefully Ithaca can overcome the difficulties of playing back to back games even more so with a few of the Bombers playing heavy minutes last night.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on January 19, 2008, 04:05:33 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 18, 2008, 11:00:55 PM
    Utica-Wick stats: Herring 25-5-4 with 2 steals, 15 and 7 for McClendon.  Cocopuffs dropped 20 and AJ Beaulieu had 15 for the Hawks.  Beaulieu missed a 3 with 32 seconds left that would have tied it and Dennis Munch seals it with two key late free throws.

    Wow, Wick's on a roll. They've now lost six straight, even against Green Mountain when Coco scored 39 and Beaulieu had 34. GM is better than in the past, but seems like E8 should be beating independents.

    I guess Wick's traditional start strong finish weak is on track again.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 19, 2008, 04:35:13 PM
    I just watched the entire 1st half of RIT/Ithaca. Neither team called a timeout. The half took 28 minutes to complete. Empire 8 TV didn't show the score once. I have no clue what the score is.

    EDIT: RIT by 9 at the break. Big run to close the half for the Tigers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 19, 2008, 04:38:27 PM
    Also, looks like RIT packed the house. And now their President is going to have orange hair.

    http://democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080119/SPORTS09/801190311/1007/SPORTS

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 19, 2008, 05:16:44 PM
    Bombers on a run. Tigers led by as many as 14 in the 2nd, but Ithaca cuts the lead to 4. About 4 mins left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 19, 2008, 05:24:12 PM
    Bombers down 1, under two minutes left, Burton just missed a wide open 3 that would have put IC up 2. I would have bet the house that was going in. Let's see if Mullins is smart enough to employ hack-a-Carson.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 19, 2008, 05:41:33 PM
    What an ending!! Leahy hits a 3 at the buzzer to give Ithaca the 87-85 victory. Scott Young, RIT's leading FT shooter, misses two FT's with under 10 seconds left, leading the frenetic final sequence. Burton dribbles down the floor, throws a cross-court pass to the left wing and Leahy hits a contested 3 to win it. It was Leahy's third 3-pointer in the final minute or so. What a game. Certainly worth the $2 it cost to watch on E8TV. Though, and I hope they're reading this, periodic shots of the scoreboard would be much appreciated. You know, right after fouls and during timeouts. I had to turn on the IC radio broadcast for the 2nd half so that I'd know what the score was.

    Also, this gives IC a good shot at the regular season title. This conference is wide open right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 19, 2008, 07:10:17 PM
    Sean Leahy outscores the Tigers 9-2 in the final 23 seconds to win the game. 

    Given the circumstances, he must be new RIT President Bill Destler's least favorite player.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 19, 2008, 10:25:56 PM
    Just got back from Rochester and took in the RIT/ Ithaca thriller today. That was a game was an instant classic. Most fans i have ever seen at an RIT game by about 800. The Bombers played well all first half but a slip in teh final three minutes let the Tigers take a 8 or so point lead into the half. Ithaca still struggled to cut into a lead which i felt was above ten most of the second half. However the Bombers battled back through RIT's physical play and some tough call from the Refs.

    At one point in the one ref inadverntly got in Burton's way creating a touble team on Burton and forcing a turn-over which lead to a basket and the foul. The refs also allowed for the Tigers to be very physical with gaurding Burton. Ithaca stayed strong and pulled it out. The last thirty seconds of the game need to go to ESPN classic. Leahy was so clutch down the stretch hitting three hughe three pointers. Great win for Ithaca, first sweep of the RIT/Naz trip since 01-02. The win really hurts RIT and really helps Ithaca. Two huge road wins for the Bombers. I am still excited from the end of the game, the crowd had to be stunned and the RIT president who has his hair dyed Orange at halftime has to be upset the Tigers couldn't pull it out. Hopefully Peggy Williams does something like that and Ithaca can draw a crowd like they had at RIT today, at least 1000 people at the game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 19, 2008, 11:17:03 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 19, 2008, 05:41:33 PM
    What an ending!! Leahy hits a 3 at the buzzer to give Ithaca the 87-85 victory. Scott Young, RIT's leading FT shooter, misses two FT's with under 10 seconds left, leading the frenetic final sequence. Burton dribbles down the floor, throws a cross-court pass to the left wing and Leahy hits a contested 3 to win it. It was Leahy's third 3-pointer in the final minute or so. What a game. Certainly worth the $2 it cost to watch on E8TV. Though, and I hope they're reading this, periodic shots of the scoreboard would be much appreciated. You know, right after fouls and during timeouts. I had to turn on the IC radio broadcast for the 2nd half so that I'd know what the score was.

    Also, this gives IC a good shot at the regular season title. This conference is wide open right now.

    Bomber fans should know that same Scott Young is IC Bomber QB Brian Young's "baby" brother. Could there have been a payoff?   :-\

    Scott is son of AU football star Bob Young from the early 1970s. Bob's the one that knocked out my mother, sitting on the sideline, at a football scrimmage at RIT back when Tom Coughlin was coaching there. Wow. All kinds of connections there now for Pep.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 21, 2008, 09:56:29 AM
    Interesting weekend.

    Kudos to all that predicted a Naz letdown against IC.  IC may be the better team but probably are not that much better.

    Also, it appears obvious now that Stevens is going to play poorly in Rochester.  The bus ride has to be the culprit.  For them to win this league in the coming years, they are going to have to either add a travel day or host every E8 tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 21, 2008, 10:08:47 AM
    Fisher has a huge stretch coming up. 4 straight games, all against teams that they should be able to beat, with three of the games at home. They really need to go on a run during this stretch, and get this season on track. At this point it seems like Fisher needs to focus on getting into the tournament, and then hope they play well there.

    I am really impressed with Ithaca this year. They seem to have gotten things figured out after that little dip early in the year. After the Fisher/Naz game I left thinking that Naz may not lose another E8 game. But, it didn't take too long for that to happen.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYBB on January 21, 2008, 10:23:49 AM
    St. John is going to win the conference playoff.  Wick is going down the tubes again, this is true as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 21, 2008, 11:11:40 AM
    although i think it is highly unlikely, how funny would it be if Fisher hosts the e8 tourny this year? Hopefully ithaca will knock off stevens at home, and fisher will redeem themselves vs naz, and sweep ithaca.  Thats about the only way i see it happening.  However, I think Fisher will drop one at Utica or at Ithaca,  and possibly at RIT. 
    Title: Radio coverage of Bombers basketball at Elmira
    Post by: WICB Sports on January 21, 2008, 04:17:23 PM
    Both the women's and men's Bombers basketball games at Elmira Tuesday evening will be broadcast online.  The women's game can be heard at 6 p.m. on 92 WICB, available online at www.wicb.org.  Following the women's game, the men's game will be broadcast on VIC Radio at www.vicradio.org, with tip-off at 8 p.m.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 21, 2008, 05:26:50 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 21, 2008, 11:11:40 AM
    although i think it is highly unlikely, how funny would it be if Fisher hosts the e8 tourny this year? Hopefully ithaca will knock off stevens at home, and fisher will redeem themselves vs naz, and sweep ithaca.  Thats about the only way i see it happening.  However, I think Fisher will drop one at Utica or at Ithaca,  and possibly at RIT. 

    I think you have the "highly unlikely" part correct. Keep in mind that Fisher is just 3-2 in the conference, while Stevens is 8-2 and Ithaca is 6-2. That's pretty significant, especially considering Fisher's longest win streak of the year is two games. Fisher has three difficult road games left (at Ithaca, at RIT, at Utica), while Ithaca (at Fisher) has one tough road game and Stevens (at Utica, at Ithaca) has only two tough roadies to go. There's a lot more that can go wrong for Fisher with their remaining schedule than can go wrong for IC or Stevens. Given Fisher's extremely inconsistent performances this year, I think they'll lose at least two or three more conference games. Fisher should just focus on playing better basketball as the E8 Tourney approaches and hope to get hot at the right time a la the NY Football Giants.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 21, 2008, 06:27:00 PM
    I agree, although, now that they are healthy and may have finally come together they might be able to do it.  However, seeing as that was only one game its too early to tell.  the 3-2 versus 6-2 and 8-2 is crazy, how is the league games so out of whack? yeah the Chase tourny but still, thats pretty awkward.  If they do pull it out i think im going to stop discussing the e8 forever as there is no way ithaca, naz or stevens should ever let that happen.  If it happens they should stop playing basketball all together haha, not really but you know what i mean. 


    Great win for the G-men, im feelin good about the superbowl.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on January 21, 2008, 09:25:09 PM
    A few of us called the Fisher upset or Stevens!!! Go Cards!!! Coach Kornaker and crew will finish in top two .
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYBB on January 22, 2008, 09:24:53 AM
    St. John wins the Empire 8...hands down.

    And on an unrelated topic,

    Tom Brady & the All Americans will destroy the New Jersey Football Giants.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 22, 2008, 09:26:41 AM
    Quote from: NYBB on January 22, 2008, 09:24:53 AM
    St. John wins the Empire 8...hands down.

    And on an unrelated topic,

    Tom Brady & the All Americans will destroy the New Jersey Football Giants.

    Hands down, huh?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 22, 2008, 09:37:32 AM
    Yeah idk about hands down either.  I think they can win it, its hard picturing Fisher not winning.  But they have been dissappointing by any standards so far this year.  I'm not giving them anymore credit for past season success.  This team needs to re-earn the respect they are capable of earning.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 22, 2008, 09:41:35 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 22, 2008, 09:37:32 AM
    Yeah idk about hands down either.  I think they can win it, its hard picturing Fisher not winning.  But they have been dissappointing by any standards so far this year.  I'm not giving them anymore credit for past season success.  This team needs to re-earn the respect they are capable of earning.

    Fisher wins one game, after losing two in a row, and we're suddenly back to arguing whether or not they'll win the conference?

    This team is 7-7, guys.  It's not happening this year.  Take a deep breath and try to accept it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 22, 2008, 10:17:17 AM
    I'm going to hold ya to that quote.  I dont know if they will win or not, but they have as good of a chance as anyone else in the conference.  7-7 most of them are very good losses (UofR, Geneseo, Bport, at Naz, at Stevens) consolation game against RIT and hobart are not good, however, consolation games dont matter, and hobart was first game of the season with out one of their better players.  I wouldn't look too much into their record, they have 4-5 easy (utica medium) conf. games coming up there conference record will be good in about 2 weeks, at 7-3 or 8-2. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: ALFREDHOOPS on January 22, 2008, 10:56:03 AM
    I'm an old Alfred grad who lives and works in the city " Manhattan". My team is not very good, and not much to root for, but being an E8 guy I have been attending the Stevens games. ( right across the river). I have sort of adopted them when they don't play Alfred. This team is actually better than you think. I saw Fischer and they were dominated at all positions, I'm sure the game at Fischer ( I didn't see it) was your typical Fischer game... no breaks no calls, but I could be wrong. Also, they have two starters who are playing hurt but seem to be on the mend. Watch out for them, they won't be an easy out. Ithica is probably the only other team with a chance to take over 1st. place.  Hey, what do I know?  It's fun getting back into it. Glad Stevens joined.     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 22, 2008, 12:07:43 PM
    I, like most who view the objective evidence thus far, am lukewarm on Fisher. I think they have a very good shot at the 4-seed, an outside shot at the 3-seed, may even sneak into the 2-seed if things go almost entirely their way, but think their chances of hosting are slim-to-none. Too many things that concern me about that team. I mean, losing by 15 in the 2nd half to Keuka?? I don't even care if they came back to win that game, it's Keuka for god sakes. The fact that they could play poorly enough to allow Keuka to get out to that type of lead should be of concern by itself. UR beat Keuka by almost 50! Fisher is a very good home team but they still have to play several strong teams on the road. I think expecting some magical turnaround from a team that is 2-5 in road/neutral games (with the two wins coming against Keuka and Alfred), as Fisher is, is being a bit ambitious. Is there a good chance that Fisher can beat Utica, Naz, and Ithaca on their home floor? Sure. But is there also a pretty good chance that Fisher could get swept at RIT, at Utica, and at Ithaca? Yep. As I've mentioned, Fisher is five back in the win column from Stevens and four back from Ithaca after the Bombers knock off Elmira tonight. That's a tall hill to climb. Hosting should be the least of Fisher's worries, that's all I'm saying.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 22, 2008, 12:49:35 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 22, 2008, 10:17:17 AM
    I'm going to hold ya to that quote.  I dont know if they will win or not, but they have as good of a chance as anyone else in the conference.

    No, they don't.  They are 3-2 in conference.  Stevens is 8-2, Ithaca is 6-2, and Naz is 4-2. 

    Did you forget the spanking Naz put on them recently?  What about the losses to every decent team in the region they've played -- Geneseo, UR (blowout), Brockport (at home), Naz (blowout), RIT (neutral). 

    They're not winning the regular season this year.  They're just not good enough.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 22, 2008, 01:55:13 PM
    you can have your opinion.  Bport loss was very close and there top 25 team, naz was a blow out but the games are very emotional anything cna happen, and rit, consolation game they didnt get up for.  not makin excuses just saying.  geneseo lost by 4 without smalt, uofR is #1 and kills everybody and they didnt have smalt and it was at UorR.   either way they only have 2 conf losses just like everybody else.  freeze the records you just stated 2 weeks from now and Fisher will be right there after they get 4-5 conf wins in the next week and a half.    Anyways heres my prediction for E8 records for top 4 teams i think will get in the tourny and there seeds.

    #1 Stevens - Hosting 13-3 conf. record (with a loss at Utica)
    #2 Nazareth - 12-4 (2 more losses one at Stevens and one at Ithaca)
    #3 Fisher - 12-4 (2 more losses one to Naz at Fisher and another at Utica)
    #4 Ithaca - 11-5 (3 more losses 2 to Fisher, one to Stevens)


    I think Fisher will be able to match up well with ithaca thats why i have them winning twice the win at ithaca being considered an upset.  I think Ithaca can get Stevens this time but i think they will drop one to RIT, Stevens, or Naz) and will either way end with 3 more losses.  I think Fisher will lose at Utica and at home to Naz.  Also if you review the above RIT has now wins in any of the columns, i think we can all agree RIT is going to knock one or two of the teams listed above down just could not pin point which teams. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 22, 2008, 02:31:11 PM
    Important game tonight for RIT and Naz.

    Naz is coming off a disappointing home loss to Ithaca.  If they want to catch Stevens and Ithaca they really need to avoid losing consecutive home games.

    RIT has won four of six.  The wins include Stevens and Fisher, and the two losses are both in the final seconds to Naz and Ithaca.  So they are playing pretty well.

    If either of these teams finds consistent success on the DEFENSIVE end tonight it could be the difference. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 22, 2008, 03:13:50 PM
    Pat, What about the Fisher/Naz Rivalry, i think that should be on the poll without a doubt.  The gyms no matter what time a year if students are on campus or not are sold out before the girls game, there was even a bench clearing brawl a few years back. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 22, 2008, 05:30:38 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 22, 2008, 03:13:50 PM
    Pat, What about the Fisher/Naz Rivalry, i think that should be on the poll without a doubt.  The gyms no matter what time a year if students are on campus or not are sold out before the girls game, there was even a bench clearing brawl a few years back. 

    Yeah, but it wasn't even competitive prior to this year as Fisher had won 8 of the last 9 and only three of the eight wins were even by single digits.  The last half-decade, Naz has been what, Fisher's fourth or fifth toughest league opponent?  The rivalries in Pat's poll are all between teams who are both always strong.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 22, 2008, 08:50:49 PM
    I agree that things will really, really, have to go Fisher's way  for them to win the league. Yes, they are tied in the loss column with Stevens, Naz, and IC. And yes, the win against Stevens was a huge boost to their chances. But, this team is just a little too streaky for me. If they shoot the ball well, and stay out of foul trouble, then they can beat good teams (stevens), if they don't they struggle to score on anybody, and are very beatable (Naz/Hobart/the first game against Stevens).
    Ithaca seems to be playin well. Naz is just better this year. And Stevens, is probably the best team in the league, and will not lose many more league games (maybe 1). Fisher still has to play IC twice, Naz once, RIT once, Utica twice...I think it is just too steep of a hill to climb this year.
    Fisher seems to have a way of bouncing back, getting better in the 2nd half of seasons, but I don't think it is going to happen this year. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 22, 2008, 08:53:09 PM
    Bombers by 17 at the half. IC leads by the awkward score of 29-12.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 22, 2008, 10:04:07 PM
    Ithaca slaps around Elmira, 64-36. Bombers up 56-20 with 8 mins remaining. The 36 points allowed was the lowest output against Ithaca in 53 years. If IC keeps this up, they're not losing five conference games, sorry.

    Naz drops RIT, 86-79. Corey McAdam with an absurd 18pts, 7rebs, 10assts, and 6 steals. Unfortunately for RIT, Ryan McAdam makes his return for Naz and puts up 13 and 10. Canori leads Naz with 22 while Kenny Gethers also puts in 22 for the Tigers. Another solid night for Mark Carson who puts up 20 and 16. No Barrett Zeinfeld for RIT tonight. Any info, Bamm? Tough loss for RIT. They need to play near-perfect ball down the stretch to make the E8 Tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 22, 2008, 10:43:27 PM
    Unfortunately, Mr. Zeinfeld will no longer be on RIT. Why? I haven't heard, all I was told is he is no longer on the team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 22, 2008, 10:49:59 PM
    Oswego St. 66 Utica 60
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 22, 2008, 11:48:53 PM
    refs screwed utica...i mean, UC outrebounded oswego by 11! and still lost! that screams officials...not to mention the free throw differential. wow, oswego got this one handed to them on a silver platter! and an oswego fan admitted they got it handed to them too!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 23, 2008, 12:27:05 AM
    [quote author=e8bballfan
    refs screwed utica...i mean, UC outrebounded oswego by 11! and still lost! that screams officials...not to mention the free throw differential. wow, oswego got this one handed to them on a silver platter! and an oswego fan admitted they got it handed to them too!

    Not sure if this was posted by e8bbfan or ucgrad incognito
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 23, 2008, 08:09:04 AM
    ive been lurking on this thread for while as footbal is mainly my thing---but i have to say that the ref screwing thing is getting old
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 23, 2008, 08:09:38 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 22, 2008, 10:43:27 PM
    Unfortunately, Mr. Zeinfeld will no longer be on RIT. Why? I haven't heard, all I was told is he is no longer on the team.

    Without knowing exactly what happened or the reason, I'm not going to comment beyond just saying I'm not all that surprised given a few conversations I've had.  His name is already removed from the roster on the website.

    As to the game -- huge win for Naz, damaging loss for the Tigers' E8 tourney hopes. 

    RIT got out to an early 18-9 lead, which they more or less held onto until about the 8 minute mark of the second half.  The game really turned when RIT got sloppy with the ball and committed four consecutive turnovers on the offensive end.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 23, 2008, 08:21:19 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 22, 2008, 11:48:53 PM
    refs screwed utica...i mean, UC outrebounded oswego by 11! and still lost! that screams officials...not to mention the free throw differential. wow, oswego got this one handed to them on a silver platter! and an oswego fan admitted they got it handed to them too!

    Hilarious.  (This has to be a sarcastic spoof...right?).  +k.

    Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 23, 2008, 08:09:04 AM
    ive been lurking on this thread for while as footbal is mainly my thing---but i have to say that the ref screwing thing is getting old

    I wouldn't worry about it FA91.  This kid was blasting that UC fan and that UC fan seems to have gone the way of Hey Pride.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 23, 2008, 08:28:25 AM
    is it just me or does it seem (with a few exceptions) that dewcrew is the only sane UC fan on the board?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 23, 2008, 09:13:37 AM
    One more note, Zeinfeld leaving the team means RIT has only four upperclassmen left on the roster:  seniors Colin Roy and Kenny Gethers, juniors Mark Carson and Rick Whitwood.
    Title: One Statistic doesn't tell the whole story
    Post by: Cards7580 on January 23, 2008, 11:27:30 AM
    [quote author=e8bballfan
    refs screwed utica...i mean, UC outrebounded oswego by 11! and still lost! that screams officials...not to mention the free throw differential. wow, oswego got this one handed to them on a silver platter! and an oswego fan admitted they got it handed to them too!

    I would like to see some other statistics before "leaping" to that conclusion.  I remember a game that Plattsbugh played against Div I University of Vermont were we were outrebounded something like 40 to 17.
    They shot 40% from the floor, we shot 65%+ from the floor.  Their offensive rebounds were the difference, but they were missing shots left and right.  We got more free throws attempts, but they had less fouls called on them. Our fouls were non-shooting fouls theirs just happened to be fouls in the act of shooting.  They had over 15 turnovers, we had 10.  Rebounding margin doesn't tell you much unless you see the "rest of the story".    FYI Plattsburgh won by 1 point at UVM on a last second shot by Dan Theiss, BEFORE there was a three point line.  If we had a three point line THEN, we would had beat them by 10.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 23, 2008, 02:20:05 PM
    Turned the corner?

    Naz just finished an impressive 3-game season sweep of RIT.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but going into the season I think RIT had won the last 11 games between the two schools.

    That's pretty crazy.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 23, 2008, 03:59:57 PM
    Had to go home yesterday to see some doctors, but Ithaca still handles Elmira without my presence. Elmira seemed pretty over matched by looking over the stats.  I heard the tried to play some kind of zone with one player guarding Burton 1 on 1. They also really tired to slow the game down and limit Ithaca's fastbreak. Ithaca just dominated Elmira on the defensive end.

    Ithaca now has six days off before facing RIT. Long stretch for the Bombers with no weekend games until they host Fisher on Feb 8th.

    Also, i was in the Hill Center today were the Gym is and got the media guide for the team this year. It seemed that before this year Ithaca held the series record between Utica College with the close margin of 48-18. Just thought UC Grad could take that as food for thought when he makes his triumphant return. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 23, 2008, 07:10:53 PM
    Cards

    e8bbfan wasn't complaining about the refs in the Oswego-Utica game. It's an inside joke. You have to go back a few weeks and read what was posted on this board by a Utica fan. Read my most recent post  and Jose's. You'll get the drift.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 23, 2008, 09:07:18 PM
    Well everygame is a big one for Fisher for the rest of the way. Any ideas of some other big games this weekend? Any suprises out there comming up?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 23, 2008, 10:06:18 PM
    Games of the Week



    LL Vassar @ SLU on Sat.     Battle for 1st place         SLU 69-66

    SUNYAC  Brockport @ Plattsburgh St. on Sat.  Battle for 1st place and probable host
                                                                             of SUNYAC tourney
                                                                              Plattsburgh  78-75

    E8  Utica @ Fisher on Sat     Must win for Fisher and ucgrad   Fisher 67-62

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cards7580 on January 23, 2008, 11:42:15 PM
    Brockport @ Potsdam

    Geneseo @ Plattsburgh

    Most important for both Brockport and Plattsburgh to not be looking ahead to Saturday's match.
    The other two teams are both capable of upsets despite W-L record of Potsdam.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: ALFREDHOOPS on January 24, 2008, 09:12:44 AM
    I see alot of predictions about final records. I think we all REALLY know nothing is definite in this conference. Almost anyone can beat anyone ( usually on their home court) I said ALMOST anyone. Your right my Alfred Team is not one of them. As I said previously I get to see all the teams at Stevens Tech, since I live down here. I saw Ithica and was impressed with there balance. I saw Elmira and very impressed with their coaching. I saw Fischer, and they did not impress me. They are not athletic, and seemed to quit after getting hammered in the first half of that game. ( I know they beat Stevens at Fischer BUT we all know about playing at Fischer). I saw Utica, and they are really one dimensional, and very inconsistant. Stevens went cold at the end BUT as RANKED teams will do, held on to win.  I saw Hartwick and another one dimensional team that couldn't stay in the game. I did not see RIT, or Nazareth this year. As far as Stevens goes they seem to be very athletic, and strong at the Center and Point Guard position. The Center Williams is tough when they get it in to him. I believe his shooting % is very good. The point guard Greco is as tough and smart as they come. The team seems very fluid when he is on the court. He can also burn you with a 3.  Then you have, as someone called them, the BIG 3. Farid, Grey and Pasalaqua. Good back up for Williams, I forget his name, # 33.. Two subs extremely good rebounders and defenders, Higgans and #32.  (sorry still getting to know the team). BUT as I said the road is tough. I truly believe no team finishes conference with less than 4 loses. But AGAIN, what do I know?         
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 24, 2008, 10:12:33 AM
    Not sure about 4 losses but I have to see that Stevens remains a huge question mark to me.  All their league games are either played after a long bus ride or after their opponent has a long bus ride.  We might not know anything about Stevens until the Conference Championship game which will be their first game in which one team is not coming straight from the bus.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 24, 2008, 11:18:32 AM
    The whole Stevens thing to me is odd.  I understand why they wanted in to the E8, but even the most talented team gets lagged after a long bus trip.  Surely they thought about this when joining, but it seems tough to handle knowing going in that they would have to travel to at least 1/2 of their conference games.
    That being said----I know this is the bball board but who does anybody think will fill the spot in the E8 in football?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 24, 2008, 11:42:49 AM
    I'm sure their first choice was the NJAC and that league must have declined since it would have been like Ithaca, Fisher or RIT asking to join the SUNYAC.  Just not the same kind of school.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 24, 2008, 12:02:36 PM
    well put plus k caz
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on January 24, 2008, 01:07:13 PM
    Actually, Stevens was a founding member of the Landmark Conference -- in fact, their president was the one that leaked the news. But they bailed on it a couple months later.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 24, 2008, 01:33:16 PM
    I actually agree with you, AlfredHoops, I think no team will finish with less than four conference losses. Here's my opinion of how it will shake out in the last month (of course, this is pure conjecture):

    Ithaca (12-4): Two more losses. Fisher is a house of horrors for Ithaca. I don't think they've won there, against Fisher or any other team, since my sophomore year ('01-02). Then, I think Ithaca will be "upset" by either Naz or RIT in Ithaca. Just a hunch. I think Ithaca beats Stevens and Fisher in Ithaca. The Bombers will really be up for those games.

    Stevens (12-4): Will lose at Ithaca and at Utica. Book it.

    Naz (11-5): Will lose one of the two against Utica or at Ithaca. Definite loss at Stevens. If Fisher has any backbone, the Cards will knock them off at their place.

    Fisher (10-6): Pretty sure they'll lose at Utica, at Ithaca, and at RIT. Then, they'll lose one other game due solely to their mediocrity this year.

    If things play out like this, I have no clue who'd win the tiebreaker and have the right to host. Frankly, I'm too lazy to look it up right now and too many things have to happen first.

    Replying to someone's earlier question: The biggest game this weekend is Utica @ Fisher. Easily. If Utica wins, they're back in the thick of things and competing for a spot in the E8. If Fisher wins, there are fewer implications, but that probably effectively eliminates Utica from the conversation. Other than that game, a pretty drab lineup on tap this weekend.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 24, 2008, 06:30:46 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 24, 2008, 01:07:13 PM
    Actually, Stevens was a founding member of the Landmark Conference -- in fact, their president was the one that leaked the news. But they bailed on it a couple months later.

    How odd.  They're going to find they have more in common with those schools than with us.  Athletically and geographically the NJAC woulda been right up their alley, as strong a league and in some things stronger than us here in the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 24, 2008, 06:55:22 PM
    I think he meant academically.  Stevens is a very good school, private,  and the size is pretty small so is the same 'type' of college as e8 schools.  They are athletic in bball but the school is much different then rutgars newark and other njac schools. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 24, 2008, 11:46:40 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 24, 2008, 06:55:22 PM
    I think he meant academically.  Stevens is a very good school, private,  and the size is pretty small so is the same 'type' of college as e8 schools.  They are athletic in bball but the school is much different then rutgars newark and other njac schools. 

    Stevens has a lot of other good teams too; soccer, volleyball, lax, women's hoop, etc.  Obviously it's not the same kind of school as the other NJACs but I could have seen them building nice league rivalries with NJCU in particular and also the other locals Kean, Willy P, Montclair State.  Plus TCNJ is an academic peer with excellent overall sports also.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 25, 2008, 09:17:40 AM
    Stevens didn't join the NJAC because, TCNJ excluded, NJAC schools don't have the same academic priority that Stevens does.  Looking at the choices of conference (Landmark and then E8) you can tell Stevens was looking for conferences that were competitive in all sports not regionally, but nationally, and similar sized schools that have good academic reputations.  The NJAC (for better or worse) has the reputation has a very poor academic conference that accepts any players just to win games.  It's the difference between a private school and a public school.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Chief1101 on January 25, 2008, 10:24:52 AM
    Also concerning Stevens, it used to be a terrible sports school...4 or 5 years back they had about 6 or 7 wins all year...Coach Hayn brought that school out of the rubble and made it into a contender..you have to remember that all the upper classmen at Stevens are Hayn's guys...He is now at Dowling and he will do the same thing at Dowling in a few years..tjhey are struggling now, but watch out...he can recruit and he can coach the game of basketball with the best of them..


    As for basketball...people on this board talk about Burton, McAdam and all that...Both are excellent players, but Stevens has about 4 or 5 guys that can dominate on any given night..Tim Williams is the strongest big man in the conference and if he wasnt surrounded by 4 other weapons on offense, hed be averaging 20 and 10 a night...Waleed Farid has struggled this year, but he is an undersized 4 man who is probably the best rebounder in the conference...Baker off the bench, although his stats are not all that, if anyone sees him play, he is a starter on any other team..he is the most unselfish player I have seen and his defense is gamechanging..I am not sold on Passalaqua because I think he is soft..I dont think he attacks the basket as well as he should and if his jumper is off, he doesnt do much..Grecco is a solid point, but they mayneed an upgrade their next year if they want to be a true contender...Virgil Gray is the best offensive player in the league...He is the most versatile and athletic guy...he is a little bit out of control, but he can get to the rack anytime he wants...


    my only concern a bout stevens is that they have so many weapons, that it is hard for someone to step up on a consistent basis...their bench is also a little shaky...baker is solid, but beyond that, its questionable...higgins is a good garbage man off the bench but he needs to realize he is not a scorer and to relax with his field goal attempts...joe ayodele is a good reserve off the bench but he has rocks for hands...


    Farid, Gray, Williams, and Grecco/Pass will lead them to the NCAA tournament this year...Anything can happen in the league tournament as we have seen, but they will def be in the top 2 in the league..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on January 25, 2008, 10:39:29 AM
    Well....that should spark a debate
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Chief1101 on January 25, 2008, 10:46:35 AM
    tru...but do not get it twisted..


    burton and mcadam are still top players in the league along with dude on naz and pg on utica...both real good players..

    im just saying stevens is good and no one is talking about them..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on January 25, 2008, 11:25:46 AM
    No, no...wouldn't dream of twisting.   I'm simply a UAA guy who lives in the E8 area and enjoys the vigor with which the E8 posters defend their teams/players. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 25, 2008, 12:13:32 PM
    Quote from: Chief1101 on January 25, 2008, 10:46:35 AM
    tru...but do not get it twisted..


    burton and mcadam are still top players in the league along with dude on naz and pg on utica...both real good players..

    im just saying stevens is good and no one is talking about them..


    I think people are talking about them. There just doesn't happen to be as many Stevens fans on the board as Ithaca or Fisher fans, nor fans as passionate as a certain Utica fans. I think if you took a poll right now, most people would think that Stevens is the favorite in the conference. Part of the lack of conversation about Stevens stems from the fact that people don't know a ton about them. Don't forget, this is their first year in the conference. I don't think it's a slight by any means.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 25, 2008, 01:10:32 PM
    Quote from: Chief1101 on January 25, 2008, 10:24:52 AMFarid, Gray, Williams, and Grecco/Pass will lead them to the NCAA tournament this year...Anything can happen in the league tournament as we have seen, but they will def be in the top 2 in the league..

    I'll disagree with this statement.  Stevens is a great team but I think the E8 is still a one bid league.  If they don't win the conference tournament (which I think is pretty likely if they don't host it since they have shown difficulty playing after the bus ride) then they stay home or go to ECACs.

    The only way that the E8 is a two-bid league however, is if Stevens gets beat in the title game.  And still it feels like a very longshot then.

    (Of course, I said the same thing during football season and we got three teams in).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 25, 2008, 01:42:27 PM
    I think Stevens is in no matter what unless they lose 4 more games before tourny time (3 reg seasons and the conf tourny).  They only have 2 losses and are getting the recognition needed to get an at large.  There are not too many top contenders this year in the East Region, all though they may not be considered east come tourny time, even the atlantic is not very strong.  Count my words they are in unless they drop a ton of games at the end of the season.   However, they are the only one getting an at large sans possibly naz if they win out the e8 reg season and drop one in the tourny. 


    If its such a long shot, who are the at large teams you see getting in over them from the east, atlantic, and northeast? 


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 25, 2008, 01:46:16 PM
    I have to back Fisher on this one.  Stevens has been in the D3Hoops Top 25 all year (I know this doesn't mean much as we saw NYU and Oshkosh left home last year) but they are what, 13-2 or 14-2 and shouldn't lose more than 2 more games going into the conference tournament.  If they enter the conference tournament at something around 20-4, they're in, especially given what they did in the tournament last year in their first appearance (wins over #18 WPI, win over NJAC champ Ramapo, and loss in sweet 16 to Amherst..who won the whole thing).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 25, 2008, 01:53:29 PM
    Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on January 25, 2008, 10:39:29 AM
    Well....that should spark a debate

    Yeah, it's a touch annoying to have someone declare three different players on the same team the "best" in the conference at anything. 

    In this case, I just learned that Williams is the "strongest" big man in the E8, Farid is the best rebounder, and Gray is the best offensive player.

    Also, Stevens has a bench player that is better than everyone else's starters.

    The only part I'm confused about is how they've ever lost.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 25, 2008, 01:55:25 PM
    Clearly a stevens kid.  I personally think Williams and Gray are 1st teamers with McAdam, Burton, Herrig (not going by position necessarily, just from what I've heard/stats).  I don't know anything about Stevens bench..they never play them. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 25, 2008, 02:46:43 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 25, 2008, 01:55:25 PM
    Clearly a stevens kid.  I personally think Williams and Gray are 1st teamers with McAdam, Burton, Herrig (not going by position necessarily, just from what I've heard/stats).  I don't know anything about Stevens bench..they never play them. 

    Williams may in fact be better than Bostic and Carson, but the numbers don't illustrate that. Right now, it's a two-horse race between Bostic and Carson for 1st Team big man in the E8. Here are there conference stats (which is probably about 90% of what the coaches use when voting):

    SCORING
    7. Carson (15.0)
    10. Bostic (13.8 )
    16. Williams (11.5)

    REBOUNDING
    1. Carson (10.5)
    2. Bostic (9.4)
    6. Williams (6.8 )

    OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS
    1. Carson (4.25)
    5. Bostic (2.56)
    6. Williams (2.40)

    DEFENSIVE REBOUNDS
    1. Bostic (6.89)
    2. Carson (6.25)
    7. Williams (4.40)

    FG%
    1. Williams (.671)
    2. Carson (.588 )
    5. Bostic (.570)

    BLOCKS
    2. Bostic (1.33)
    4. Carson (1.13)
    5. Williams (1.10)

    If you noticed, Bostic and Carson are first and second in every one of those categories except FG%. Williams seems to have very weak rebounding numbers. I can see the "well, Farid takes rebounds away from argument" coming from a mile away, so I'll pre-emptively rebut it right now: Carson leads Williams by almost 4 rebs/game and his second-leading rebounder (Gethers--7.5 rb/game) averages more than Williams's second-leading rebounder (Farid--7.1 rb/game). So that argument has no merit.

    I'm sure Williams is a very good post-player and could score much more if given the ball more. But so could Carson and Bostic. Very rarely do D3 teams dump the ball into their big men and let them go to work. That's just how it is. I bet Bostic gets 85% of his points in transition, on alley-oops, or from offensive rebounds. That's just what D3 big men have to do.

    Williams has good enough numbers to be a second-teamer. The first-team nod will come down to Bostic and Carson. Carson has a slight statistical nod over Bostic at present, but Bostic will get a bump up from being on a better team (a la Dan McSweeney last year) and the fact that he can make FT's. Maybe the coaches will surprise everyone and put both on, but I doubt it.

    I would break things down like this:

    POY CANDIDATES & DEFINITE 1ST-TEAMERS: Burton, Corey McAdam, Herring
    HOVERING BETWEEN 1ST AND 2ND-TEAMS: Virgil Gray (leading scorer on top team), Walled Farid, Joe Canori, Kenny Gethers, Bostic, Carson, Jan Cocozziello
    THE REST: Tim Williams, Sean Leahy, Brendan Rogers, Chris Baltz, Justin Beigel, Ryan McAdam, James McClendon

    Note: Zeinfeld would likely be somewhere in there, but his season is over
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 25, 2008, 03:09:11 PM
    I agree with most of your assessment.  I only have seen the Bostic/Williams head to head matchup and Williams won that one with ease.  But the stats to bear out Williams being a 2nd teamer.


    However, how is Gray not even a player of the year candidate?  He's not the favorite...but not even a candidate?  Leading scorer on the "best" team..5th in conference in scoring, top 15 in almost all stats...stats are VERY comparable to Doug Herring from Utica...Gray E8 player of the week twice, Herring zero times. 

    I gotta think he is going to get at least some of the coaches votes for player of the year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 25, 2008, 03:14:34 PM
    It might be worth noting that when they played, Williams had 9 points and 7 rebounds, while Carson had 23 and 15 in an RIT upset.

    Williams faired better against Bostic in their first match up.  We'll have to see how things go in both of the "round 2" games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 25, 2008, 03:16:49 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 25, 2008, 03:09:11 PM
    I agree with most of your assessment.  I only have seen the Bostic/Williams head to head matchup and Williams won that one with ease.  But the stats to bear out Williams being a 2nd teamer.


    However, how is Gray not even a player of the year candidate?  He's not the favorite...but not even a candidate?  Leading scorer on the "best" team..5th in conference in scoring, top 15 in almost all stats...stats are VERY comparable to Doug Herring from Utica...Gray E8 player of the week twice, Herring zero times.  

    I gotta think he is going to get at least some of the coaches votes for player of the year.

    I actually had him in that group before moving him down. If they win the conference, I think he's a shoo-in for 1st Team and may even garner consideration for POY. I think the problem with his POY candidacy is that some coaches may perceive that he's not even the best player on his own team (can make an argument that Farid is), so how is he the best player in the conference? From reading things written by you and AlfredHoops, who has taken in some Stevens games, it sounds as if Gray is the go-to-guy on offense, but Farid does all the things that make the team win. All I'm saying is that may divert some attention from him with respect to the POY award. Re: Herring, Utica would be on par with Elmira if it wasn't for him, in my opinion. He's easily one of the five best players in the conference, though.

    Frankly, barring a catastropic collapse by Naz, I think the award is already signed, sealed, and delivered to Corey McAdam. His statistics are absurd and he's clearly the most important player on Naz's team. I think he's put some distance between himself and Burton, as Burton has taken a back seat in some of IC's blowout wins. If Ithaca wins the regular season title, I think Burton's chances improve tremendously. We'll have to wait and see.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 25, 2008, 03:19:24 PM
    Gray is a good player.  But in the two games I watched him he did nothing to make me believe he's any better of a scorer than Canori. 

    I don't see enough of Cocozziello to have an opinion.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 25, 2008, 07:13:48 PM
    Quote from: bamm on January 25, 2008, 03:14:34 PM
    It might be worth noting that when they played, Williams had 9 points and 7 rebounds, while Carson had 23 and 15 in an RIT upset.

    Williams faired better against Bostic in their first match up.  We'll have to see how things go in both of the "round 2" games.


    Thinking back to the Ithaca v. Stevens game, I don't Bostic and Williams matched up. It was more of Williams vs. Brown and Kail. Bostic doesn't typically match-up vs. other bigs. Bostic was most likly matched-up against Gray as they are both athletic. I see Williams being gaurded Kail and Brown again.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 25, 2008, 11:26:25 PM
    Tonight's scores and stats:

    Naz 90, Elmira 74 - the other McAdam is back, he had 9, Canori leads Naz with 20.  Evan Taylor had 19 for Elmira.  I've never heard of him, but then again I've never heard of any of EC's players.

    Fisher 69, Hartwick 59 - Baltz had 20, 18 and 6 for Beigel.  Cocopuffs with 21 for 'Wick.

    Utica 74, Alfred 51 - Pios do what they should on the road, Herring with 17.  Only one Saxomaphone got into double figures, Ellis Walsh with 10.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYBB on January 25, 2008, 11:27:59 PM
    Fisherrrrrrrr is good.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 26, 2008, 04:57:18 AM
    come on nybb i mean i know your probably drunk or somthing seeing its a friday night at 11:30 but no need for that comment from beating hartwick by 10 points at home.  If anything it should say fisher is MEDIOCRREEEEEEEEEEE. coming from a big Fisher supporter and fan. I think Hartwick is not an awful team, they play good defense, and have cocopuffs, if he goes off they can stay in games, but 10 pt win at home against hartwick is by no means any indicater of a good team.  A slightly above average team should beat hartwick at home by a minimum of 10 pts.



    Naz with ryan back has to be feeling good, I think when ryan gets back to full potential they are the best team in the e8, however, there bad coaching and lack of D will probably blow it for them.

    Utica nice win, seeing how playing at alfred is probably the worst of all e8 courts.  23 is good coverage for the atmosphere, maybe they are making a step forward towards getting to where they need to be to squeeze in the tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on January 26, 2008, 09:58:47 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 26, 2008, 04:57:18 AM
    , but 10 pt win at home against hartwick is by no means any indicater of a good team.  A slightly above average team should beat hartwick at home by a minimum of 10 pts.





    Fisher was up by  20 with 5 minutes to play until Kornacker put the "way end" of the bench in.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 26, 2008, 11:28:35 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 26, 2008, 04:57:18 AM
    come on nybb i mean i know your probably drunk or somthing seeing its a friday night at 11:30 but no need for that comment from beating hartwick by 10 points at home.  If anything it should say fisher is MEDIOCRREEEEEEEEEEE. coming from a big Fisher supporter and fan. I think Hartwick is not an awful team, they play good defense, and have cocopuffs, if he goes off they can stay in games, but 10 pt win at home against hartwick is by no means any indicater of a good team.  A slightly above average team should beat hartwick at home by a minimum of 10 pts.



    Naz with ryan back has to be feeling good, I think when ryan gets back to full potential they are the best team in the e8, however, there bad coaching and lack of D will probably blow it for them.

    Utica nice win, seeing how playing at alfred is probably the worst of all e8 courts.  23 is good coverage for the atmosphere, maybe they are making a step forward towards getting to where they need to be to squeeze in the tourny.

    What makes Alfred the worst of all E8 courts?  are we talking facilities or team?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 26, 2008, 11:40:25 AM
    Do the Saxons have a shot at getting their first conference win today against Hartwick? A battle of two teams riding identical seven-game losing streaks. On Saxon Warriors!

    While the Warriors (Hawks) and Saxons battle at McLane Center, Pep will be at the AU football banquet with the Pep Band providing pre-banquet music for the guests' listening pleasure???? (only time will tell regarding the pleasure - - Merrill Field is a much more forgiving atmosphere for a band than Ade Hall, but this year's band will pull it off).

    Pep's votes: Team MVP - Paul Keeley; Offensive MVP - Vinson Hendrix; Defensive MVP - Don Miller; Band MVP - "Dr." Phil Feichtner on Sousaphone; Band Rookie of the Year - tie, Peter Metz (trombone) and Sara Egan (trumpet); Most Pep - (Lau)Ren Celentano; Honorary Pep Band Member - Tony Alumdonor.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 26, 2008, 11:51:55 AM
    Today should answer a lot of questions about who is going to get into the E8 tourny. Fisher, with a win, really takes a big step towards geting into the tourny, with 3 less losses than UC, and a win against them. Assuming of course that they don't slip up against the lower teams in the conference. Kornarker seems to have the team heading in the right direction (I know it is only two games, but they look a lot better in those two games).

    Utica, with a win, can really get themselves back into the race for the 4th spot in the tourny. They would still have a game against Fisher, at home, to give them another loss. It hurts UC that Fisher is done with Stevens, and UC still has one with them, but a win today goes a long way to jumping Fisher in the standings.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 26, 2008, 03:31:52 PM
    didnt see the game jasper, but atleast the game was more of a blow out the final score showed, so good win then.

    AU Pep band, i didnt mean worst facility (maybe it is, the lighting is bad and is alittle older) but mainly meant is tough to play, its in the middle of no wheres so long bus ride and just tough to get up for games there. Didnt necessarily mean facility wise.

    sjfc, good points, and now that they are getting home games and playing some of the lower teams in the conference, it is a good way to get back on track. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 26, 2008, 04:45:01 PM
    Fisher all over Utica at the half, 35-19. Cards use a 16-0 run to turn a six-point deficit into a 23-13 lead. Cards getting to the line quite a bit. Let's just say that I don't think UCgrad is too happy with the officiating, thus far. Beigel is getting a little chippy and getting away with quite a bit.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on January 26, 2008, 04:49:06 PM
    From the looks of it Utica couldn't hit sand if they feel off a camel. I don't think the officiating has much to do with it. 4 for 13 isn't going to get it done
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 26, 2008, 05:17:16 PM
    Quote from: jasper on January 26, 2008, 04:49:06 PM
    From the looks of it Utica couldn't hit sand if they feel off a camel. I don't think the officiating has much to do with it. 4 for 13 isn't going to get it done

    Not saying the officiating means anything in this game. Just that UCgrad is probably pulling his hair out. After seeing Fisher play for the first time this year, I can say this 100% certainty: Ozell Franklin is their 2nd best player and should get way more PT than he does.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 26, 2008, 06:25:37 PM
    And utica leaves their 'A game' back at home as fisher CRUSHES them. justin beigel w/17 & 7, smalt with 15 & 9. Fisher shoots over 50% from the field and Utica shoots just over 28%. wow. Fisher goes on a 16-0 run in the first half and never looks back.

    Whoever said Munch is a d-1 player is quite possibly the biggest idiot ever. that kid is terrible.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 26, 2008, 06:26:02 PM
    Fisher wallops Utica, 66-40. Not close after the 10 minute mark of the 1st half. Utica cut it to 10 or 12 in the 2nd half but never looked dangerous. Beigel has 17pts and 7rebs. Ozell Franklin with 12 and Smalt with 15 and 9. Herring with 17 for the Pios. Savior Whyte with 2 pts and 4 fouls in 9 minutes of play.

    Hartwick handles Alfred, 73-57. Cocozziello with 23, A.J. Beaulieu with 13 and Chris Carson has 12 for 'Wick. Garlen Pat with 14 to lead Alfred. The game was never in single digits after the first seven minutes of the game.

    So far the chalk has won every game this weekend. Stevens v. Elmira probably won't change that. However, Elmira did play them close the first time around.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on January 26, 2008, 07:33:51 PM
    Say what you will but Fisher is for real. I think they can beat Naz at home. Beating Stevens and absolutely destroying Utica i think its safe to say they are a contender for the title.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 26, 2008, 07:52:59 PM
    Quote from: jasper on January 26, 2008, 07:33:51 PM
    Say what you will but Fisher is for real. I think they can beat Naz at home. Beating Stevens and absolutely destroying Utica i think its safe to say they are a contender for the title.

    I don't know how much of a chance at the title they have, but they are definatley like they have turned a corner. The game against Naz at home is a HUGE one, especially if Naz finds a way to beat Stevens between then and now. Fisher does have an outside chance at the 1 seed, but I am just happy that it looks like they have a little breathing room to get into the top 4.
    I just got back from the game, and Fisher looked pretty good today. Much better defensively, and they looked a lot more comfortable in their offense. When they shoot well, they can beat good teams. If Smalt and Beigle are off, or in foul trouble...then they can lose to anyone. At least they may be salvaging the season a little bit.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on January 26, 2008, 08:44:31 PM
    All i was saying is they have a chance. Besides Wick, Elmira, and Alfred the rest of the teams can beat each other any given night. Fisher has a couple of more "easier" games this coming week to prep for Ithaca,Naz. Should be a great couple of weeks.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 27, 2008, 01:07:55 AM
    Quote from: jasper on January 26, 2008, 08:44:31 PM
    All i was saying is they have a chance. Besides Wick, Elmira, and Alfred the rest of the teams can beat each other any given night. Fisher has a couple of more "easier" games this coming week to prep for Ithaca,Naz. Should be a great couple of weeks.

    At least it will be fun...Lets go Fisher...we need to win some games here on out.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on January 27, 2008, 11:01:09 AM
    I just hope someone besides Stevens gets to host the tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on January 27, 2008, 11:07:55 AM
    Don't think anyone wants to travel down to Jersey to face Stevens.  RIT has a stretch of games that they can play their way back into contention, but they are on the road so it isn't likely.  After seeing them early in the year I thought they would be better, but at least if they go on a run they have a chance at sneaking in. However the lost of Zeinfeld makes it rather unlikely, but go TIGERS and fight to the finish, there is still a lot of hoop to be played and if you take your wins one at a time maybe you'll get some help with an upset here or there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 27, 2008, 11:41:57 AM
    If Stevens hosts the tourney I think they'll win it hands down.  They haven't lost a home game all year and that trip is brutal on the rest of the e8.  Is there any team that anyone could think of who would be a decent e8 member that's somewhere in between the schools?  Sort of break up the trip a little bit.  Travel thursday late..play a game friday...travel saturday early...play Stevens Sunday afternoon.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 27, 2008, 01:05:28 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 27, 2008, 11:41:57 AM
    If Stevens hosts the tourney I think they'll win it hands down.  They haven't lost a home game all year and that trip is brutal on the rest of the e8.  Is there any team that anyone could think of who would be a decent e8 member that's somewhere in between the schools?  Sort of break up the trip a little bit.  Travel thursday late..play a game friday...travel saturday early...play Stevens Sunday afternoon.

    Not really.  The LLs aren't going to switch over so that only leaves more Skyline schools plus Manhattanville, which just moved to MAC Freedom.  Manhattanville has some good teams but like any other Skyline option don't play football.  Competitively they'd be like a mini-Stevens. 

    Within the Skyline you're talking Mount St. Mary (tiny teacher's college in Newburgh, which could be charitably described as Utica with a riverbank, sports suck except for WBB), Bard (beyond ludicrous, not an option) and Mount St. Vincent (too small and too much of a travel hassle being practically in NYC).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 27, 2008, 01:31:05 PM
    go bombers is this your first time seeing Fisher this year? if so, whats your assessment? do you think they are better than Ithaca? Naz, Stevens?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 27, 2008, 01:38:02 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 27, 2008, 11:41:57 AM
    If Stevens hosts the tourney I think they'll win it hands down.  They haven't lost a home game all year and that trip is brutal on the rest of the e8.  Is there any team that anyone could think of who would be a decent e8 member that's somewhere in between the schools?  Sort of break up the trip a little bit.  Travel thursday late..play a game friday...travel saturday early...play Stevens Sunday afternoon.

    I'm guessing that if Stevens hosts, all the other schools will get down there much earlier than usual (Thursday afternoon before the Friday night games) so that the effects of a long trip are minimized. I sincerely doubt the coaches will wait until early Friday morning to get their teams there.

    As far as Stevens winning the E8 Tourney "hands down" if they host, that may be a bit of an exaggeration. I'm aware that they're undefeated at home, but I can tell you that the close victories over Elmira (3 points) and Utica (1 point), two teams that will be watching the E8 Tourney, aren't going to leave any of the other teams quaking in their boots over playing at Stevens. Plus, remember that Ithaca led Stevens for much of the game in Hoboken despite Burton leaving in the first minute of the game. That will give the Bombers some confidence that they can win there.

    Stevens will certainly be the favorite if the tourney is in Hoboken. That said, the advantage isn't anymore pronounced than what Ithaca or Fisher would enjoy in their home gyms. Fisher's never lost an E8 Tourney game in their own gym and Ithaca has only lost one home game all season and that was in OT while the Bombers were playing without Burton. I'm just saying that the "hands down" part of that statement is probably a bit of hyperbole.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 27, 2008, 01:56:07 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 27, 2008, 01:31:05 PM
    go bombers is this your first time seeing Fisher this year? if so, whats your assessment? do you think they are better than Ithaca? Naz, Stevens?

    In general, here are my quick-hit impressions:

    -Yes, this was my first time watching them. They looked good, obviously, "smoking" Utica by 26. Game was never in doubt past the first 10 minutes.

    -As far as being better than the other teams, I will reserve judgment on that. Haven't watched Naz play yet and I'd be hesitant to say Fisher is better than Naz after the whoopin' Naz put on them two weeks ago (without Ryan McAdam, no less). It seems like both Fisher and Ithaca have some Jeckyll-and-Hyde in them. I think both teams could beat the other by 15 points on their respective home courts and I wouldn't be surprised in the least by it. Same thing with Stevens: I'm betting Fisher is better in Pittsford and Stevens is better in Hoboken. I think every team this year has some weaknesses and inconsistencies. That's why home-court is so huge this year.

    -Beigel looked good. Was taking it strong to the hoop and did a nice job on the boards. He did what I expected him to do.

    -Smalt played solid. I'd say I watched about 75% of the game, and he must have had most of his 15 and 9 when I stepped away from my computer. I didn't realize he was having such a good game and was fairly surprised when I saw the box. I had expected something closer to 10 and 6. He and Beigel did a nice job of keeping the Utica bigs off the boards.

    -Was not impressed by Baltz and/or Newman. Baltz just probably had a bad game as he is one of their top scorers and was held scoreless yesterday. He just kind of looked lost out there yesterday. Newman is an average ballhandler but it doesn't seem like he even cares about contributing offensively. He had 4 pts yesterday but was 0-4 from the field.  I know Utica has good defensive guards, but not good performances for either.

    -Ozell Franklin is very good. Gives them a nice spark when he comes in. Fisher has an element of quickness when he's on the floor, something that is sorely lacking when he's on the bench. Has a nice outside shot, too. Can get to the glass off the bounce--seemed like only he and Beigel can create for themselves in one-on-one situations.

    -Was impressed by that Witte kid, too. Surprised he doesn't play more. He'll be a good player in the conference as he develops. Again, not sure why he doesn't play more over guys like McKeever, Bearden, Cornett, Coyne.

    I obviously saw them on a day where they played very well. That big run in the 1st half just killed Utica. They seemed pretty disinterested from there and Fisher will lay it on you when that happens. I think I saw the Cards during one of their best performances of the year, so it's tough. It's hard to ignore all the inconsistencies that the others, including Fisher fans, have talked about. Do they have a shot at hosting? Sure, but I still think it's an outside chance b/c they have a tougher schedule than Ithaca or Stevens and an equivalent schedule to what Naz has left. Fisher needs to prove they can win games like these away from home--if they can't, they're merely what Utica has been over the past few seasons.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 27, 2008, 03:08:40 PM
    I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Fisher has its good moments, and its bad moments this year. They just seem a little too inconsistent to get to host the tourny. However, I think they will have a lot to say about the outcome of this season. On good nights they will have a lot to say about it. The last three games they have looked great. And if they can play this way for the reamaining 9 games, then they may indeed host the toury (and sneak into the NCAA tourny). But, if this season has tought me anything about Fisher, it is that they are up and down. I think they will find a way to lose another couple games.

    On the up side, Fisher is playing much better as of late. It looks like that Naz game may have woken them up a little bit. If they can keep it up, then they can actually have a good season...maybe 17-18 wins. That would be a lot when you consider how they have gotten here.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 27, 2008, 06:34:39 PM
    Stevens barely beats Elmira again, 50-46 at EC.  Passalacqua leads Ducks with 19 points; both teams shoot ugly 36.4 percent.  Just a horrible game, it was 17-15 Elmira at halftime.

    Stevens took the lead for the final time with 2:47 to go and made FTs down the stretch to hang on.  Elmira took a three to tie with 52 seconds left but missed and that was basically that.  Let's make it official: there is absolutely no reason to fear Stevens when they come to your gym.  None.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 27, 2008, 07:45:38 PM
    Wow...Stevens has struggled with Elmira twice now. I just can't understand that. I understand that the trip up might take something out of them, but struggling at home? and if you struggle at home, you think they would have been ready for today.
    I have a feeling all the teams in the running may lose one or two more games this year. Should be an interesting couple of weeks.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on January 27, 2008, 11:36:37 PM
    I haven't seen Stevens but Elmira can be tough if you don't have a quick release zone busting 3 point shooter.  Perhaps that is Stevens' Achilles heal.  My understanding of them is that their bigs are really good and athletic but perhaps they don't have a "light it up" 3 point shooter so if you play a packed in frenetic zone with good weak side help (which when I saw Elmira- they did) you will have trouble.  That's why Ithaca & SJF always seem to handle them- those 2 teams have always had good quick release 3 point shooters that can move and get shots off either in transition or off of quick ball movement. Look that statement up in a e-8 thesauras and Burton's picture is in there!  Maybe against Stevens you pack your zone down in the paint and agressively challenge them to make contested 3 pointers.  Again this is theory I'd need to see Stevens play before lending any serious credibility.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 28, 2008, 08:48:01 AM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 27, 2008, 06:34:39 PM
    it was 17-15 Elmira at halftime.

    I really can't get over that.  I try to visualize a sequence of events -- the gym floor being covered with banana peels, some sort of indoor fog phenomenon, mass narcolepsy -- that would result in only 15 points being scored on Elmira in a half.  It's baffling.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 28, 2008, 08:49:25 AM
    I was pleasantly suprised to read the local paper- the od- to see that Fisher pounded UC the other night.  This up down season must be driving the Fisher faithful crazy.  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 09:33:54 AM
    a win is a win...


    stevens has been handling all the other teams outside of fisher and rit...Elmira is a scrappy team that packs it in a real tight zone...passalaqua is a solid 3 pt shooter and the other guards are streaky shooters..but until they are losing to other teams in the conference, you can not say Stevens is not feared...its their first yer in the conference and they are a top the league...


    also, stevens best three pt shooter, palantino transferred because of playing time..he was a lights out 3 pt shooter...stevens will win the e8, elmira is not a bad team...they beat a hobart team that beat fisher..so on any given night, elmira can stick with a team because they are scrappy and play d..you never count a team like that out..


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 28, 2008, 11:26:49 AM
    Quote from: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 09:33:54 AM
    a win is a win...


    stevens has been handling all the other teams outside of fisher and rit...Elmira is a scrappy team that packs it in a real tight zone...passalaqua is a solid 3 pt shooter and the other guards are streaky shooters..but until they are losing to other teams in the conference, you can not say Stevens is not feared...its their first yer in the conference and they are a top the league...


    also, stevens best three pt shooter, palantino transferred because of playing time..he was a lights out 3 pt shooter...stevens will win the e8, elmira is not a bad team...they beat a hobart team that beat fisher..so on any given night, elmira can stick with a team because they are scrappy and play d..you never count a team like that out..

    That "scrappy Elmira team that can play D" has lost 4 straight and three of its last four opponents had hit 70 points or more.  Naz dropped 90 on them, Ferrum 89 and Cortland 84.

    Stevens in home league games: 6-0, average margin - 12.33 ppg
    Stevens in road league games - 3-2, average margin - even

    Oh yeah, that's terrifying.

    Ducks remaining league schedule - Naz, RIT, at Hartwick, at Utica, at Ithaca; I don't think this league tournament will be in New Jersey.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 11:30:58 AM
    watch it be in jersey....


    tim williams will dominate any big man inside..his numbers are not great because he doesnt take that many shots..but he will dominate...


    and farid is still top 5 all around players in the league..forget that he was an honorable mention all american last year...


    so beat it with it not being jersey...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 28, 2008, 12:04:20 PM
    Overall it's going to be good for the Stevens program to be out of the Skyline but they're going to have to learn to play better on the road.  Barely beating Elmira twice impresses absolutely nobody, we all know how terrible Elmira always is.  We don't have any of your more familiar Mount Saint GodAwful here, but EC is close.

    I hope we aren't seeing the arrival of another UCGrad45 here.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 12:10:28 PM
    haha no i wouldnt go that far..



    and yes i understand that, skyline conference is horrendous..thats why they left...but im telling you, they will win host the tournament..and win it..

    passalaqua is coming off an injury....once he gets back in the groove, he will be there main 3pt threat...they already have 2 great wing players in gray and farid..pg play is shaky and williams will dominate any big man in the conference..not all on talent, but he is a beast downlow..


    who can stop that? bostic? hes soft? biegel? hes a hack and a crybaby..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 28, 2008, 12:39:04 PM
    I just checked Stevens stats for the first time this year, Chief, I am impressed by Williams being 70 percent from the floor, that's bigtime work right there.

    Stephen A. Smith says HOWEVAHHH....Chief, you conveniently neglected to mention just how unbelievably awful the Ducks are at free throws.  58.5 percent as a team?  Really?  Gray, Williams, Higgins and Baker are all well below 60 percent.  Don't foul Passalacqua (89.7) or Greco (72.5) but otherwise I gotta think every coach in the E8 by now knows to play Hack-A-Duck.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 01:19:30 PM
    who do you have beating them?

    whats your take on the league caz?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 28, 2008, 01:28:26 PM
    Quote from: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 01:19:30 PM
    whats your take on the league caz?

    It's pretty easy to tell when someone is new here.  He's going to quickly learn that asking one of the Ithaca fellas an open-ended question like this means you need to clear up your afternoon to read the response.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 01:38:18 PM
    not new...been around long enough to know that stevens is much better than ithaca..and that bostic is overrated and extremely soft..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 28, 2008, 01:59:09 PM
    Quote from: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 11:30:58 AM
    watch it be in jersey....


    tim williams will dominate any big man inside..his numbers are not great because he doesnt take that many shots..but he will dominate...


    and farid is still top 5 all around players in the league..forget that he was an honorable mention all american last year...


    so beat it with it not being jersey...

    You taking that to the bank?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 28, 2008, 02:03:27 PM
    Quote from: bamm on January 28, 2008, 01:28:26 PM
    Quote from: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 01:19:30 PM
    whats your take on the league caz?

    It's pretty easy to tell when someone is new here.  He's going to quickly learn that asking one of the Ithaca fellas an open-ended question like this means you need to clear up your afternoon to read the response.

    Naah, Bamm, you know it's just GB15 that likes to write the dissertations.  I try to get to the point.

    Bostic overrated...I kinda tend to agree and have for a while.  His basketball motor just doesn't seem to rev that high.  You'll have that when you've been slamming around in football pads since August every year.  If he focused on hoops he has the physical tools to really dominate (height, athleticism, etc.) but he's still a tremendous asset to IC athletics as a two-sport star.

    I'm picking Stevens to lose at Utica and Ithaca and the Naz home game is a toss-up.  The edge on that one goes to the Ducks b/c Naz has consistently failed to win big road games for years.  Then again this is the most talented Naz team in forever.  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and since I won't be at any of these games I sure as hell won't complain about refs :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 28, 2008, 03:00:35 PM
    I mostly agree...however, I don't see Stevens losing both Ithaca and Utica on the road.  I can guarantee they'll lose one of those games, but not both of them.  I'd say most likely they beat Utica on the road, but not Ithaca.  I know the Utica game at home ended up 60-59, but remember Stevens was a) up 11 at the half and b) played that entire game without the injured Passalacqua, who is really their only weapon from behind 3 and one of the better shooters in the league.  Him missing played a big role in the game, because Stevens isn't very deep and had to start Baker, which killed the depth even more.


    I do think they'll lose that Ithaca game because I think they should have lost to them in Hoboken.  I see Stevens goin 4-1 down the stretch in league, because I don't think Naz will get the same game out of Canori they got the first time around and McAdam is just getting back into action so I don't know how effective he will be.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on January 28, 2008, 04:10:24 PM
    Quote from: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 11:30:58 AM
    watch it be in jersey....


    tim williams will dominate any big man inside..his numbers are not great because he doesnt take that many shots..but he will dominate...


    and farid is still top 5 all around players in the league..forget that he was an honorable mention all american last year...


    so beat it with it not being jersey...

    Yeah Williams really dominated last night eh chief, He had about as many fouls as he did points. Farid really lit it up too......Stevens is decent but not any better than Naz, Ithaca or Fisher. They're highschool teams in the Rochester area that could Elmira a good game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 05:18:58 PM
    take it easy jasper..

    decent?...dont get me wrong, im not a stevens grad or anything like that, im actually a liberty league fan..but stevens is not decent..they are better than decent..1-5 they stack up with every team in the e8 and for the most part, they are better..

    farid has struggled this year, but hes good for assts and rebs, even when hes struggling from the field..he is undersized and he outbattles big men in the e8...


    williams does foul a lot, but once again you have to remember, he is not the main focus of his team...gray and farid are..if he got enough touches, hed averaged 20 easily..passalaqua was hurt all season, finally sat out and is starting to get his stroke back...


    ithaca has burton, but beyond that they are soft...bostic may be a great football player, but he is soft in the post...stevens has 2 or 3 big men off the bench, although not very talented, they are big bodies that throw weight around..in the postseason thats what you need..they have experience...

    you beat ithaca by stopping burton...naz is very good, ur right...but stevens is better..

    and fisher is nowhere near what they usually are...


    and its one game their buddy..williams stats are good this year...the funny thing bout this site is that none of you know stevens at all so you think by looking up stats it tells the whole story..it doesnt, and many people will tell you that..stats arent everything..farid may be strugglin but he still is a main focus of many teams so they lay off other guys...also baker off the bench is a starter on any other team..his stats arent great but he changes games with his D...







    Title: Radio Coverage of Tuesday's Bombers Basketball Games
    Post by: WICB Sports on January 28, 2008, 06:22:12 PM
    Radio coverage of Tuesday's Empire 8 basketball games at the Ben Light Gymnasium begins at 5:40 p.m. with Bombers Shootaround on vicradio.org.  At 6 p.m., Josh Canu and Zach Tomanelli have the call of the women's contest between Ithaca and RIT.

    At 7:40 p.m., Bombers Shootaround begins before the men's game on 91.7 FM and www.wicb.org.  Robert Schroeder and Michael Polak have the call of the game at 8 p.m. on WICB.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 28, 2008, 06:31:59 PM
    Chief, I have to agree with you on that one, this board does rely and put too much emphasis on stats.  If you followed fisher at all the past 5 years, there are rarely standout scorers, rebounders etc, because across the board 1-5 on the court were all very good.  I have seen steven play one time when they beat naz, they reminded me very much of the sweet 16 Utica team, although I think they are a little bit better.  I think they are the 2nd best team talent wise behind naz with a healthy ryan mcadam, however, i think they are a better team bc naz lacks D and good coaching.  Fisher is behind on talent this year, however, when smalt and beigel are healthy and don't get into foul trouble I think they are the best team.  Ithaca is good but I think they are a year away still, i tihnk they will make the tournament possibly get a win, then lose out do to too much reliance on Burton.  Leahy is good but soft and I was never extremely impressed with bostic.  I think the experience of Stevens will go along way at the end of the year and into the post season.  Its hard to imagine fisher not making the ncaa tournment for the first time in a while, but im not sure if they have the leadership, consistency or depth this year.  Sadly, if they don't make it this year, they may not make it for a while as they have not recruited extremely well that past few years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 28, 2008, 06:41:52 PM
    Easy there, fellas. I tend to write longer posts b/c there are many stupid things said on these boards that need to be addressed. It's quality over quantity. Instead of writing three two-paragraph posts in a day, I condense. Excuse me for being efficient. C'mon Bamm, things can't be too crazy over at Key, you have time to read.

    Anyways, Chief, buddy, pal, calm down over there. Take a few deep breaths. Now, relax about Williams. He got schooled by Carson. As bombersquadron said, Williams and Bostic didn't even check each other in their game so there was not head-to-head matchup in that game. Bostic is a 4 (Kail and Brown play the 5), Williams is a 5. Besides, Williams is likely a second team guy.

    You need to stop trying to defend these close wins vs Elmira. You're better off just saying "we played two awful games, but luckily we got W's." You're not convincing anyone that Elmira is any good. Ever. We all know they've improved, but they're still a doormat for the top teams. Ithaca was beating them 56-20 with 5 minutes to go in last Tuesday's game, for crying out loud.

    You mention that beef inside wins post-season games. Maybe. But I'll tell you what loses post-season games: bad FT shooting, and 58.5% isn't going to hack it. I'd love to hear what about a FT% statistic is misleading. I think they'd love your posts on firejoemorgan.com (best website ever for those who don't know).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 28, 2008, 06:44:45 PM
    Too much reliance on stats is a bad thing if done within a vacuum. Otherwise, numbers are a great indicator of what happens. You guys are the same people who would vote Don Mattingly into the HOF b/c his nickname had the word "baseball" in it.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 28, 2008, 07:25:30 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 28, 2008, 06:41:52 PM
    C'mon Bamm, things can't be too crazy over at Key, you have time to read.

    Oh, I read them.  I think it's only fair that if I'm subjected to your essays I get to poke fun at your complete inability to be brief.  I enjoy that you consider that "effecient." Well played.  I think my steadfast refusal to take advantage of the "emoticons" the D3Hoops.com board provides for us may have doomed the tone of my message.

    Pretty brutal Tuesday night road-trip to Ithaca for RIT.  This game, of course, is book-ended with last weekend's game at Naz and this weekend's game at Stevens.  Tough week for the Tigers.

    As to the Stevens versus everyone discussion -- I think it's pretty cool how open this season is.  Three serious contenders for the league title (Stevens, Naz, Ithaca), one wild card (SJF), and three teams that can beat any of the rest of them (RIT, Utica, Hartwick). 

    It should be a fun month.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 28, 2008, 08:29:24 PM
    what kind of injury is passalacqua coming off?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 28, 2008, 08:51:49 PM
    Passalacqua is either an ankle or foot injury.  People at the Elmira game said he had a little bit of a limp while running so that's my guess.

    As for the whole Stevens v e8 convo, here's my 2 cents:

    1)  I think Naz and Ithaca are the only teams in conference that can beat Stevens in Hoboken.  I know Ithaca lost but I think with Burton they would have won that game.  Naz is this weekend so we'll see.  I'll put money on Stevens because Naz doesn't travel well, but I think on any given night they can beat them.  Even though Fisher beat them at Fisher, I don't think it'll be much of a game in any rematch in Hoboken.

    2)  I said it on here (after seeing them play and lookin over some good stats provided) that Williams is 2nd team all e8.  I do think he's much better than Bostic, because 1 on 1 there isn't a big in the conference who, without help, will stop Williams from scoring.  Williams' problem is that he fouls WAY too much, thus limiting his production.  That plus he is the Curtis Sumpter of a nova style offense from a few years back (Nardi, Foye, Ray, Lowry) so the guards dominate the ball. 


    3) For starters, let me say that Stevens looked pathetic in both Elmira games and in no way am I defending their PLAY.  HOWEVER, for Jasper putting so much weight on Stevens playing Elmira close...what does that prove?  Basketball is as much a game of matchups as it is talent.  Stevens has one three point shooter against a team that plays a lot of zone against them.  Naturally that game is going to be close.  However, you cannot use the logic that "Oh, they didn't blow out Elmira" to mean that they are worse than the teams that do blowout Elmira.  That makes no sense...ex:  If you have one big and 4 kids who shoot the lights out of the ball but can't take anyone off the dribble, you will probably kill a team that plays all zone against you.  However, you will get killed by an old school Arkansas style in your face team that pressures.  Stevens matches up better with Naz and Ithaca, teams that will run with them and play man to man, because that's the style of play they prefer.  If you slow them down, you will give them trouble.  So, if you mean Stevens isn't better than Naz, Ithaca, or Fisher based on head to head matchups with each other, that's fine and a valid opinion, but using the Elmira game as a barometer is clueless.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 28, 2008, 09:14:20 PM
    Cyclone -- Very thoughtful, not emotional, and though I don't agree with all your points, very well done.  +k
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 28, 2008, 09:41:31 PM
    Quote from: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 01:38:18 PM
    not new...been around long enough to know that stevens is much better than ithaca..and that bostic is overrated and extremely soft..


    Bostic is not soft, you haven't seen him enough to know how he plays. Bostic is not a fiery player, he doesn't go out and yell and scream, he doesn't  have to be the team's alpha male. I am sure part of it has to do with coming from football in november when the team has already been playing for a month of practice and been playing pick-up and working out since semptember. When i played he always had a hard time adjusting not just with his legs but feeling comfortable with the guys and on the floor.

    However Bostic does have a ton of heart and is very clutch. As a freshman he averaged 10 and 7 in seven starts, the last seven games of the year, if i remember correctly. He went on to dominate the ECAC toruney that year and capture the MVP along with leading Ithaca to the chip. (All as a freshman). He had the game winning lay-up and had 16 and 13 in that championship game.

    Last year in the ECAC he had 20 and 13 vs RPI and 15 and 16 vs Vassar. He had five double doubles last year with four coming in the last five games. Bostic was first team Empire 8, with 15.5 ppg (5th in conf.) 7.6 rpg (3rd) and second with 41 blocks. Right now he is 12th in PPG 13.1, 1st in rebounds with 10.1 per game. Shooting 53% form the floor for 8th in the conference. Second in blocks with 20.

    Knowing Bostic he is just not a vocal player, and doesn't usually show emotion. However, he does have heart and as of late has been becoming more of a leader.

    Quote from: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 05:18:58 PM

    ithaca has burton, but beyond that they are soft...bostic may be a great football player, but he is soft in the post...stevens has 2 or 3 big men off the bench, although not very talented, they are big bodies that throw weight around..in the postseason thats what you need..they have experience...


    Ithaca is not soft, they might be leading the Empire 8 in flagrant fouls. They have two big bodies down low in Brown and Kail. Rogers is another tough kid who always go to the basket hard and plays tough, hard nose D. Ruff is another tough kid who makes great hussel plays, plays solid D and gets on the offensive glass. Burton is also a tough. Ithaca gets a bad rap because people think Leahy and Bostic are soft. They aren't soft, the both play hard, have heart and are clutch, very far from soft. Last year Leahy had a game winning basket versus Utica and he just killed RIT with the shot at the buzzer. I already spoke on Bostic.

    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 28, 2008, 08:51:49 PM

    2)  I said it on here (after seeing them play and lookin over some good stats provided) that Williams is 2nd team all e8.  I do think he's much better than Bostic, because 1 on 1 there isn't a big in the conference who, without help, will stop Williams from scoring.  Williams' problem is that he fouls WAY too much, thus limiting his production.  That plus he is the Curtis Sumpter of a nova style offense from a few years back (Nardi, Foye, Ray, Lowry) so the guards dominate the ball. 


    I have already stated that Bostic did not gaurd Tim Williams. I'll give you the point that Williams played better in that game but that was Bostic's worst game of the year. I don't know if it was the travel or being early in the season but he played bad.

    For everyone who saw that game you know he matched up with Gray. Gray is a super athlete and so is Bostic, so Bostic took him in the match-up. Just like Bostic gaurded Gethers not Carson. Bostic always goes with the other teams athletic player, he even guarded McAdam and Canori when Ithaca played Naz. Bostic has never had to match-up with Bigs. He never gaurded Bacon or McSweeney either. Ithaca states he is the center but that goes to Kail and Brown, who gaurd every other teams bigs.  That has nothing to do with heart either, he matchs up better with other teams athletic 2, 3 or 4. They can put Leahy on taller guys and use Kail and Brown for the center. Everyone who has seen Ithaca plays knows this so you can't call Carson/Williams/Smith/Etc. vs. Bostic a head to head match-up because they barely go head to head. Those guys can't gaurd bostic cause he can step out and hit a 15 to 17 footer and also go by a slow big man. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 28, 2008, 09:53:45 PM
    Sorry for the long post, hate to be a typical bomber poster with the long post (Bamm), but i did research all during the UCONN game and typed my draft. Sorry if there are any mistakes with grammar but as a P.E. teacher i always struggled with that. I have known Bostic since his freshman year and knowing him and his personal life i would say they kid has a ton of heart and is a very level headed kid.

    Anyways i was also working during the UCONN game on my conference team predictions at the midway point.

    1st Team

    Corey McAdam
    Doug Herring
    Sean Burton
    Virgil Gray
    Mark Carson (Has better #s than Bostic, but Bostic could take the spot down the stretch).

    2nd Team

    Joe Canori
    CoCo
    Jeff Bostic (Can be first team, he usually plays great down the stretch and was first team last year).
    Kenny Gethers
    Justin Biegel
    Waleed Farid

    Honorable Mention

    Tim Williams
    Sean Leahy
    Baltz or Newman (Depends on how they and Fisher continue to play)
    Passalqua (Was hurt, missed some games)
    Ryan McAdam?? *Missed 6 Games, 3 Chase Tourney, 3 in Conference but has solid numbers overall and in conference.

    Between Burton and C McAdam for player of the year, really depends on who plays better down the stretch and who wins the conference. In my opinion these are the most logical predictions. I am open to debate but i think this are as fair as can be.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Duckman on January 29, 2008, 01:19:06 AM
    I heard a stat somewhere that out of the 300 some-odd d3 schools, stevens has the 5th worst free throw percentage.
    That's pretty awful, yet it says a lot about how much talent they have if they're still ranked in the top 25.
    By the way, I'm claiming dibs on 1st official Stevens student/fan on this thread (or has someone beat me to it?).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 29, 2008, 02:37:59 AM
    Duckman, You lose by about 2 months. 1st Stevens poster was one of your players trying to come on incognito back in Nov. I believe.  Check with Jose Q.  I think he outed him.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on January 29, 2008, 08:10:55 AM
    Quote from: magicman on January 29, 2008, 02:37:59 AM
    Check with Jose Q.  I think he outed him.

    If memory serves it was Senior Tim Williams:

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stevensducks.com%2Fassets%2Fsports%2Fmbball%2Fthumbs%2F4064.JPG&hash=9e1319bab897229ac2ce06d7738b77431e4c0046)


    EDIT:

    Almost.  Here is my post.

    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 05, 2007, 11:30:37 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 05, 2007, 10:41:01 PM
    Quote from: randombballfan on December 05, 2007, 10:33:26 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on December 05, 2007, 03:50:50 PM


    It is my experience that coaches in D3 do not get fired for losing.  I really can't think of an example where a coach got fired and the termination was not supported by some reason unrelated to success on the field/court.

    Coach Hayne from Stevens was fired 2 years ago for not taking them to the NCAA's. Coach Lauffler is now te new head coach and Stevens made it to the Sweet 16, and look like they might make it to the championships this year

    Well we have ourselves an official Stevens fan and he's certainly jumped in with a bang.  Wow.

    Almost Caz.  Looks like we have ourselves an official Stevens player.  Nate Williams, Senior from Elmhurst NY.

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stevensducks.com%2Fassets%2Fsports%2Fmbball%2Fthumbs%2F4065.JPG&hash=cc0259dac0f37fb048181c90529447ec95c03a9b)

    Although, he might qualify as a fan as well since he is getting just 8.3 min more per game than I am.

    Second Edit:  Nate is no longer listed on the roster despite the fact that he appeared in 11 games this season.  Que interesado.  I hope we didn't get him kicked off the team.  That might be a little harsh coach. 

    Also, how classic to disguise yourself with the handle "randombballfan."
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Chief1101 on January 29, 2008, 08:38:12 AM
    some quality posts about Stevens...


    however just want to clarify something...coach hayne was not fired for not producing on the court or in the ncaas...he was fired because of non-basketball related issues...such as low team gpa, lowering standards of stevens student athletes, and losing to RPI..schools biggest rival..



    some may say, no way, but those are the 3 reasons..



    These are Coach Haynes players, Coach Loeffler can't even hang with Hayne in basketball IQ...hayne turned stevens around, loeffler was handed a good tteam..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 29, 2008, 08:51:06 AM
    bombersquadron -- I like your list, and to add a quick point to it -- I think the most difficult part this year for the coach's will be to decide what to do about Canori, Cocozziello, and Gray.

    Both Canori and Cocozziello are upperclassmen, and both probably "deserve" first-team honors considering they are one and two in scoring in the E8.  And if Stevens does, in fact, win the league I would be surprised if they didn't get a first-teamer, and Gray seems like the choice -- although you could probably stick Farid in there. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on January 29, 2008, 09:20:54 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 28, 2008, 08:51:49 PM
    Passalacqua is either an ankle or foot injury.  People at the Elmira game said he had a little bit of a limp while running so that's my guess.

    As for the whole Stevens v e8 convo, here's my 2 cents:

    1)  I think Naz and Ithaca are the only teams in conference that can beat Stevens in Hoboken.  I know Ithaca lost but I think with Burton they would have won that game.  Naz is this weekend so we'll see.  I'll put money on Stevens because Naz doesn't travel well, but I think on any given night they can beat them.  Even though Fisher beat them at Fisher, I don't think it'll be much of a game in any rematch in Hoboken.

    2)  I said it on here (after seeing them play and lookin over some good stats provided) that Williams is 2nd team all e8.  I do think he's much better than Bostic, because 1 on 1 there isn't a big in the conference who, without help, will stop Williams from scoring.  Williams' problem is that he fouls WAY too much, thus limiting his production.  That plus he is the Curtis Sumpter of a nova style offense from a few years back (Nardi, Foye, Ray, Lowry) so the guards dominate the ball. 


    3) For starters, let me say that Stevens looked pathetic in both Elmira games and in no way am I defending their PLAY.  HOWEVER, for Jasper putting so much weight on Stevens playing Elmira close...what does that prove?  Basketball is as much a game of matchups as it is talent.  Stevens has one three point shooter against a team that plays a lot of zone against them.  Naturally that game is going to be close.  However, you cannot use the logic that "Oh, they didn't blow out Elmira" to mean that they are worse than the teams that do blowout Elmira.  That makes no sense...ex:  If you have one big and 4 kids who shoot the lights out of the ball but can't take anyone off the dribble, you will probably kill a team that plays all zone against you.  However, you will get killed by an old school Arkansas style in your face team that pressures.  Stevens matches up better with Naz and Ithaca, teams that will run with them and play man to man, because that's the style of play they prefer.  If you slow them down, you will give them trouble.  So, if you mean Stevens isn't better than Naz, Ithaca, or Fisher based on head to head matchups with each other, that's fine and a valid opinion, but using the Elmira game as a barometer is clueless.




    Putting so much weight?? All i'm saying is Stevens isn't as great as chief is advertising. They have just as much chance of winning the league as Naz, Ithaca or Fisher. They have done nothing to impress me and i don't see why they are still ranked so high in the top 25 and Naz doesn't even receive a vote. Hey maybe im wrong maybe im not but at this point Stevens is not better than the teams metioned above.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 29, 2008, 10:53:25 AM
    I'm really not trying to be biased on Fisher, I've said more negative things about them this year then probably any other poster, however, previous post said they are not a serious contender? how so? 


    there conf. record is 5-2, with games versus elmira and alfred (two auto wins). 

    They will be having a huge home game against nazareth with a 7-2 record.  Nazareth's record at the time will likely be 7-3 with a loss at Stevens.  As such, Fisher will be ahead of Naz in the conf. going into the game and tied or 1 game back from Ithaca or stevens (depending on Naz outcome, could be ahead of them by this pt if naz wins).  Following that, will be a huge game at Ithaca, if they win there (which they havnt lost like a LONG time) then they will be sitting at first looking very good considering the remainder of their schedule.  I don't think its too much of  along shot to think they will beat naz at home and Ithaca.   They are playing better than anyone in my opinion right  now, finally getting the chemistry needed and Smalt is getting back into it.  However, still a little too early to know for sure.


    This post was derived from conversations 1 week and half ago comparing Fishers 3-2 record (with 4 straight upcoming easy conf games) versus naz, stevens, and ithaca's 7-2 records. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 29, 2008, 11:12:17 AM
    Jasper, they are ranked that high for a number of reasons


    a)  They went to the sweet 16 last year.  Because of that, and having 3 of 5 starters back, they were a pre-season top 25 team.  So you'd have to be able to justify moving them out of the top 25 based on 15-2 record.  Gonna be pretty hard to do.


    b)  They beat Naz head up.  Close game, yes, but that's why they get the votes and Naz doesn't. 

    c)  As for the nothing to impress, etc etc, I'll give you a couple things that would impress a non-biased fan

    1)  Win over Middlebury in the 2nd game of the year.  Same Middlebury that has only has 2 or 3 losses on the year.

    2)  Beating Fisher by 15 at home (in a game they led by as much as 28) in the 1st matchup of newcomer vs. team thats dominated the e8..regardless of what just happened, at the time, everyone on this board will admittedly say that was "impressive"

    3)  Beating Naz, @ Naz, in a double OT game, AFTER losing their first game of the season to RIT, on their first road trip.  If you don't think that's impressive, that means you don't think Naz is very good.  And before we use the McAdam excuse, every team has one of those.  Stevens has quite a few for that game as well.  Take it for what it was..an impressive bounce back victory

    4)  Beating BOTH Ithaca and Utica, period.  They are both good teams.  How many other teams in the league have done that so far?  I think it's just Stevens.

    I understand you say they haven't looked impressive and I agree, but sometimes just getting the W is as impressive as how you do it.  I'm not going to say that they are head and shoulders above Naz, Ithaca, Fisher, or even Utica, but at this point, given what they've done, you can't objectively say they are behind them either.  I'm not willing to annoit any of these teams champs yet, but to say you don't understand why Stevens is still ranked high in the top 25 means you don't understand how college basketball works.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 29, 2008, 11:25:44 AM
    As for FisherDynasty, I've said it before..Fisher is still the team to beat in this conference.  I don't really care about records and stuff because it's real simple...who else has won the empire 8?  They had to deal with the Smalt injury and seem to be coming together at the right time.  Talent wise I think they are behind Stevens, Ithaca, Naz, and maybe even Utica, but as far as a basketball team goes they can play with all of them and they are still the reigning 100000-time defending champion.....slight exagerration but you get my point.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 29, 2008, 11:35:55 AM
    I have to agree with you Cyclone, I think Stevens should definatly getting top 25 votes, they are the only team deserving in the E8 this year.  Also the points made are valid, close games versus elmira or not, a win is a win.  Sometimes playing crap teams like those are hard to get up for.

    Idk if they are behind Utica in talent, they beat them by 26 easily and maybe same talent as Ithaca over all but I agree are a little behind Stevens and Naz as far as talent goes. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Chief1101 on January 29, 2008, 11:53:41 AM
    agreed...


      I agree that until someone knocks Fisher off, they are the team to beat...However, my points have been that i believe stevens will host and win...

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 29, 2008, 12:32:36 PM
    Each time Jasper posts, the same line from Chappelle's Show rings out in my head: "And Jasper said...if anyone's gonna be havin' ___ with my sister, it's gonna be ME!" One of the best five skits of the entire show. I'm getting whistful over here. Just thought I'd put that out there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYBB on January 29, 2008, 12:40:35 PM
    lol i love that chappele episode
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 29, 2008, 01:30:27 PM
    Hey Chief, I had to do some research and make sure you weren't UCGrad in disguise, since you have such a hatred for Ithaca and Stevens.  But the 'Chief' is actually Kevin "Bobble Head" Riley, a former Hobart player, whose career numbers were 4.2 ppg and 3.5 rpg in four years at Hobart. So "Bobble Head"... I don't think you should come on here and call out Bostic, Ithaca College, or any coaches with your career 43 games played and 181 points. In his freshman and sophomore years the "soft and overrated" Bostic has tripled your CAREER numbers. I don't know why your calling out coaches either, find something better to do with your free time like coach a 4th grade girls CYO team. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 29, 2008, 01:56:03 PM
    Ouch!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on January 29, 2008, 02:08:12 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 29, 2008, 12:32:36 PM
    Each time Jasper posts, the same line from Chappelle's Show rings out in my head: "And Jasper said...if anyone's gonna be havin' ___ with my sister, it's gonna be ME!" One of the best five skits of the entire show. I'm getting whistful over here. Just thought I'd put that out there.

    LOL.....Listen man. He's too important to the movement. Tell him that he's black, he would probably kill himself. His commitment is that deep.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 29, 2008, 02:11:41 PM
    I have to say, you guys all know this league inside and out. it's great reading everyone's opinion. Here's some of my thoughts.  Jasper seems to be right on with his thoughts, in my opinion. I like Cyclone 0205, he seems to know allot about Stevens which should help the rest of us. Good to see Duckman jump in. We need some biased Duck talk to level out the UCGRAD etc.  I think after all is said and done, we can analyze every which way and it all comes down to consistancy. The team that is the most consistant will have the best chance. It is obvious there really isn't one dominant team in this league. If Stevens would have beaten RIT, I would say they, hands down, are the best, because a loss at Fischer means nothing, no matter how down Fischer is this year. It's just the way it has always been. Steven's has a very strong starting 5, to the man. They do remind me of that Villanova team, as some one mentioned. They seem to be lost when the bench is used.  Remember Stevens is 15-2 overall, ranked 17th... hard to argue that. Ithica is talented but rely too much on Burton, when he is off a little, they don't pick him up. Nazareth has all the tools but for some reason can't play the complete game at times. Mc Adam giveth and takith. Generous score keeper at home games ups his assists. Don't go off on me, still think he's a very good player and makes that team go. Fischer really doesn't have the complete team. They will hold serve at home, but I want to see what happens on the road the rest of the way. UC depends on Herring way too much. Allot like Hartwick and Coco. Herring is good but can't carry a team. UC coaching is suspect. Utica players seem to worry more about the ref's  than the game. Alfred needs to start over, and Elmira is well coached but doesn't have the horses. They can upend someone looking for a spot before the season ends. Those are my thoughts... glad to be aboard.              
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on January 29, 2008, 02:18:53 PM
    Better spell Ithaca right or the Bomber brood will be all over you. :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on January 29, 2008, 02:22:00 PM
    and Fisher too!
    Title: Reply
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 29, 2008, 02:30:05 PM
    Too many distractions at work.... You guys are the best,

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Duckman on January 29, 2008, 02:48:22 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 29, 2008, 02:37:59 AM
    Duckman, You lose by about 2 months.

    Dang. =(

    Anyways, I've been able to catch most of Stevens's home contests and feel they are an overall very strong team.  The only weaknesses I've seen were their inability to score against the 2-3 zone and their inside defense (with free throw shooting being a given). 
    The fact that they've struggled against the 2-3 confuses me though, as all it takes to beat one is good ball movement to provide an open mid-range jumper (which all 5 of their starters, including Williams, can hit). 
    As far as I can tell it seems like Stevens is the best team in the conference this year, as any one of their starters can turn hot on a given night.
    Of course being the "best" team in the conference doesn't necessarily translate to W's in the conference tourney.  Naz, Ithaca and Fisher all have the ability to beat them, but if Stevens is playing at their peak I believe the Ducks will come out on top.
    As far as the two Fisher-Stevens games, I don't think we can get too much out of either one of those games.  Fisher was the favorite to win the conference from the getgo and Stevens was determined to show why they should be top dog.  Result:  a lot of pressure on Fisher to win and a ravenous Stevens at their home court.  The game in Fisher was the reverse scenario, with Fisher wanting revenge.
    Now about Williams.  He is a beast.  He has good post moves and you can't leave him alone outside or he'll knock down a jumper.  His field goal percentage was 6th in the nation for d3 as of 1/9, which adds to his impact on the game.

    Like many have said before, it should be a fun couple of weeks.
    Can't wait!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 29, 2008, 03:08:14 PM
    Glad to see another Stevens fan on the board, now we just need some Naz Faithfuls and maybe another RIT guy. 


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on January 29, 2008, 03:33:17 PM
    This just in Fisher beats Alfred by 13454566!  They played the game early during free period.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 29, 2008, 03:50:49 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 29, 2008, 02:18:53 PM
    Better spell Ithaca right or the Bomber brood will be all over you. :)

    Cool, do we get The Brood's entrance and music too?

    http://bigg18.imeem.com/music/h2hpiqOg/wwe_gangrel_the_brood_theme/

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=WcAHS9c0XZw

    (FF to the 1:00 mark)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 29, 2008, 05:27:40 PM
    Was anyone able to see both the Fisher/Stevens games?

    What was the difference from that game and the first? Did Fisher switch to a 2-3 zone, as everyone seems to think is the key? I am just curious. I did not see either game, and I would think that something had to be done differently.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on January 29, 2008, 05:36:13 PM
    I think its Coach Burton that makes the Bombers go!!! He is the lead in the pencil!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 29, 2008, 06:48:05 PM
    Big game for the Bombers tonight. They certainly need this one to keep pace. I think it's tough playing RIT twice in a 10-day span. I don't like it. But playing this game on a Tuesday night is a nice advantage. Tough mid-week road trip for RIT.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 29, 2008, 08:39:23 PM
    Tigers lead by as many as nine before Bombers trim lead to one. RIT leads Ithaca by 3 at half, 39-36. Let's see if RIT can hold onto a 2nd half lead.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 29, 2008, 09:36:36 PM
    In the most anticipated game of the evening, the 1 and only collegiate battle of the Farid brothers goes to....Baruch?

    Baruch 75
    Stevens 71


    Waleed Farid is outscored by younger brother Tameer 14 to 13 and Stevens drops yet another road game.  They are the anti-New York Giants.


    For all the Williams talk, he actually showed up with 23 and 11 tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fpc85 on January 29, 2008, 09:39:32 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 28, 2008, 06:44:45 PM
    Too much reliance on stats is a bad thing if done within a vacuum. Otherwise, numbers are a great indicator of what happens. You guys are the same people who would vote Don Mattingly into the HOF b/c his nickname had the word "baseball" in it.


    donny could hit with the best of them!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 29, 2008, 09:40:40 PM
    In what must be a satisfying victory for the Tigers after blowing the last-minute lead last week, they prevail in Ithaca 81-70.

    The Bombers and RIT remain the two most difficult teams to predict. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 29, 2008, 09:46:59 PM
    Quote from: triplethreat on January 29, 2008, 03:33:17 PM
    This just in Fisher beats Alfred by 13454566!  They played the game early during free period.

    Final score Fisher 58, Alfred 54
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 29, 2008, 09:50:25 PM
    Wow...Fisher squeaks out a victory. Kornaker is not happy at all listening to the post game interview. At least they got a victory I guess. Fisher basically was sleep walking the entire game. Nothing to be proud of, but they still are inching closer to the tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 29, 2008, 09:56:59 PM
    Tonight reaffirms what everyone should have probably already known, namely that there is no prohibitive favorite in this league, whatsoever. I honestly think that if the E8 Tourney took all nine teams (8 vs. 9 play-in), six teams would have a legit shot to win it. I mean, would anyone be that surprised if RIT knocked off Ithaca, Stevens and Fisher in a three-day span? Of course not. But would anyone be surprised if RIT got bounced by Naz in the 1st round, either? Nope. Would just depend on which teams got favorable matchups. I think this is the first time in the history of the E8 Tournament that you could say that more than 1 or 2 teams could win it. This is a very crazy league this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 29, 2008, 10:08:42 PM
    Bombers looked to be sleep walking for most of their game too. RIT took the lead to start the game and i'm not sure if the Bombers ever held the lead. Battled back many times in the second half to be down by one by RIT would just hit a big shot. RIT's bench poured in 33 points. Gethers stepped up big in the second half scoring 11 of his 13 points down the stretch. RIT also hit their FT's minus Gethers and Carson.

    Ithaca once again struggled from 3 (5-25) and from the line (13-21), with all of the players who shot high percentages missing them. Bostic played hard and had about 15 and 19. He pinned Gethers off the backboard and it looked as Ithaca might finally get over the hump but they couldn't.

    Looked like RIT was the hungrier with their season on the line. They got every loose ball and converted every loose ball into points. I'm serious with it being every loose ball was two points at the other end and that just hurt Ithaca. Ithaca takes a step back and really shoots themselves in the foot with trying to host the E8 tourney.  Ithaca may have had the largest crowd so far yet this season with some students sitting on the RIT side and the Ithaca side was packed but left disappointed.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 30, 2008, 12:12:02 AM
    Hey Pep

    I would consider that an Alfred victory.  :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 30, 2008, 06:57:32 AM
    Unless they've changed the rules when Pep wasn't watching, Pep believes the team scoring more points wins a basketball game. Pep hasn't seen the Saxons this season but did sneak into McLane for the tail end of last year's AU win over the Cardinals. Despite the team being 1-17 this year, those players in the E8's cellar program still have their own pride for which to play. Pep thinks highly of those who would endure such adversity and wishes for them much better days ahead.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on January 30, 2008, 09:23:00 AM
    That was an awful game last night at Fisher. I should have stayed home. I guess you play down to the worse teams level as in the case of Stevens/Elmira and last night. Fisher looked like a bunch of zombies. No defensive pressure, turnovers on the fast break that should of been easy lay-ups, stupid fouls, you name it just a terrible college basketball game.  Don't know if they thought Alfred was just going to lie down and let them run over them or what. Baltz didn't play because i believe he has a nagging ankle injury but still very sloppy played game on both ends. Good thing for Fisher Alfred is terrible and they have Elmira Friday and not Ithaca or Naz to get things back on track.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bart1117 on January 30, 2008, 09:33:32 AM
    Bombersquad...


    Appreciate the old nickname "BOBBLE HEAD" coming back..you see I sit at a desk all day now and its very seldom that I get a good laugh like that..In an attempt to clear up this little situation we have here, about this whole Jeff Bostic and/or Ithaca situation you must understand what happened...See, I work in an accounting group with 4 other people...1 of the other group members happens to be an Elmira grad from '99 or '00.   Well last year, Hobart beat Elmira, so I shove that in his face all day every day...I went so far as to mess up his little SOARING EAGLE mascot, so I guess looking back on it, I had something coming for me...So I had this D3posting name, and little did I know at the time, he knew my password...So after making about 3 posts which concerned Hobart and nothing about the E8, he took my password and has been writing some rather amuzing things...

    The only reason I am coming out and saying this is because I have buddies down at Stevens and some of the things he wrote were retarded and wanted to make that clear..Also, this whole Bosstic situation, I know the kid, his cousin went to Hobart, why would I say he was soft?  I said dude on St Lawrence and dude on Clarkson last year were soft, and they were...I played against Bostic once in my career and he did well, so no need for that..And if you knew anythign about me, youd know that I played 1 fulls eason at Hobart...Frosh/Jr year, I was injured so I maybe played in about 10 games...So throwing up a stat line for 3 years when it basically consisted of 1 year, goes right out the window...I am not comparing myself to anybody..Bostic or anybody else in the league..



    So bomber you seem to be a liked dude on this site and I am sure its well deserved, and the "bobble head" comment got you a plus in my book, but if you want to talk about something or if you want to ask me a question, be a man and ask me...dont be a tool and try to start a funny thread over the internet...
    One thing I wasnt was soft, so if I feel someone is soft in the LL, I will say it...Stats mean nothing to me when it comes to whether a player is scared of the paint or not...So relax with the comments although extremely funny..Loook forward to some Ithaca comments because I am sure you think they are going to win the National Championship..


    Fellers, sorry for the long post, just had to put it out there because i have coaches and players that see it and I did not want them thinking I talked trash bout them..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 30, 2008, 11:07:58 AM
    Well Stevens lost to something called Baruch out of conference last night.  No word yet if this will cause the Ducks to cancel future games against Atah and Adonai (maybe only Superman57 gets that, maybe not).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bart1117 on January 30, 2008, 11:18:58 AM
    not only did Stevens lose to Baruch..



    Waleed Farid lost to his brother who plays for Baruch...that'll cause a discussion at the dinner table..

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 30, 2008, 12:28:22 PM
    Another amazing night in the E-8.  Fisher at home taken to the limit??? I guess, as they say on any given night. Ithaca losing not that big of a shock, RIT is dangerous every night. Stevens against Baruch is a real upset. I saw the LIVE STATS, for some reason Grey sat out the first half and Greco had 3 early first half fouls. That really hurts. They need those two guys on the court or their in trouble. They need points from Grey, and Greco keeps them organized. It's going to be a huge weekend. Either the picture will get clearer or may become even more confusing. Naz and RIT in Hoboken ( Stevens probably looking ahead to weekend). Ithaca gets a break this weekend, and look for Hartwick (they are due for a win) to put Utica to sleep. Time for Utica to sit the seniors and start getting ready for next year. (sorry UGRAD).  Naz plays 6 of the last 8 on road, that's tough. Fisher may look ahead to Naz, and Elmira hungry for the upset... I'll tell you this is incredible.
    Monday should make for good posts. DUCKMAN.. has my read on the Stevens game last night...?

       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Duckman on January 30, 2008, 12:38:46 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 30, 2008, 12:28:22 PM

    Monday should make for good posts. DUCKMAN.. has my read on the Stevens game last night...?



    I only caught the second half of the game on livestats.  From what I saw it was "Baruch: Layup, layup, layup layup...".
    Not sure if I just caught it at a bad time, but it seemed like Baruch was getting a lot of easy layups (going back to the inside D thing).
    And as for FT%:
    Baruch: 23 for 29 (79.3%)
    Stevens: 13 for 24 (54.2%)
    Ouch!

    Well the game was at least exciting to follow on livestats.  I was sitting on the edge of my seat for a full half hour.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 30, 2008, 05:59:50 PM
    Bostic and Carson were seemingly fighting it out last night for those 1st Team honors:

    Bostic:  15 points, 19 rebounds
    Carson:  14 points, 15 rebounds

    Nice game by both players.

    Brutal, brutal, brutal game for Burton.  3-16 from the field, 0-9 from behind the arc. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 30, 2008, 06:22:29 PM
    I have to say it is strange to see Fisher with so many losses at this point in the season, but I am really enjoying the idea that several teams in the league have a chance to win the league this late in the season.
    It is fun to have posters from several teams with a legitimate argument that their team can do it, and to have every game (even games with bottom of the barrel teams) mean so much. It is a lot of fun.
    Any predictions on how the rest of the season will turn out? I would love to say I have some idea, but I just can not seem to figure out anything about this season yet.

    One crack at it:
    1)Naz
    2)Fisher
    3)Stevens
    4)Ithaca
    5)RIT
    6)Utica
    7)Hartwick
    8)Elmira
    9)Alfred

    A very rough guess of how it will turn out, because we all know that this is just not an easy season to get a handle on.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on January 30, 2008, 06:29:04 PM
    Bamm- did you see the game?   Did Burton have a Korinchak problem?  Or did he just have an off night?  Ordinarily I'd say Burton could shoot that well with a blindfold on..... but Korinchak is very quick..... or was it a Roy/ Korinchak combo problem?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 30, 2008, 07:20:49 PM
    I didn't see the game, so I'm not sure if the Roy/Korinchak duo (both are good defenders) stifled him or if he just had one of those nights.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 30, 2008, 08:31:01 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 30, 2008, 11:07:58 AM
    Well Stevens lost to something called Baruch out of conference last night.  No word yet if this will cause the Ducks to cancel future games against Atah and Adonai (maybe only Superman57 gets that, maybe not).

    Indeed, Baruch appears to be a mediocre member of the Kosher Conference. Stevens would be hard pressed to beat Atah and Adonai.

    Kosher Conference Standings
    Adonai   13-2
    Asher     11-4
    Kideshanu   10-5
    Bemitzvotav  9-6
    Atah      8-7
    HaOlam  7-8
    Vitzivanu 7-8
    Baruch  6-9
    Eloheinu  4-11
    Melech   0-15


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 30, 2008, 09:16:33 PM
    Outstanding as always, Pep, you are the man.  +K.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 30, 2008, 10:05:48 PM
    Not to take anything away from RIT players Roy and Korinchak but i think Burton had an off night. He was taking good shots, ones he normally knocks down, they just weren't falling.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 30, 2008, 11:29:34 PM
    Quote from: Bart1117 on January 30, 2008, 09:33:32 AM
    Bombersquad...

    So bomber you seem to be a liked dude on this site and I am sure its well deserved, and the "bobble head" comment got you a plus in my book, but if you want to talk about something or if you want to ask me a question, be a man and ask me...dont be a tool and try to start a funny thread over the internet...
    One thing I wasnt was soft, so if I feel someone is soft in the LL, I will say it...Stats mean nothing to me when it comes to whether a player is scared of the paint or not...So relax with the comments although extremely funny..Loook forward to some Ithaca comments because I am sure you think they are going to win the National Championship..


    I don't think sticking up for my boy Bostic makes me a tool by any means. I wasn't trying to start a funny thread either. I was just stating the facts how i saw them. Sorry you had an injury plagued career, but Bostic is not soft, just because he has a great 15-17 footer and isn't asked to be a back to the basket player doesn't mean hes soft. Bostic cleans up everything for Ithaca inside, and you or whoever called him soft was misinformed. I'm sure there isn't a coach in the E8, LL or sunyac who would turn down Bostic or think he is too soft.

    And why do you think i feel Ithaca is going to win the National Championship. I think they are the most talented team since they went to the NCAA's in '02 maybe better. I have never once said or predicted anything about a National Championship, i do think if IThaca get hot going into the E8 tourney they can get on a roll and make some noise in the tournament. But like most teams in the E8, it really depends on what team takes the floor that night.

    Anyways hopefully there are no ill feelings, and you have control of your account now and can give us some input as we reach the playoffs.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 31, 2008, 05:49:36 AM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 30, 2008, 09:16:33 PM
    Outstanding as always, Pep, you are the man.  +K.

    Blessings back at ya!  ;)    Barukh atah Adon!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bart1117 on January 31, 2008, 08:09:26 AM
    agreed...my point was just next time, ask me if you want to know who I am...


    and if you look back on the postings, they were all over the place...one good thing about burton and then all of a sudden, talking about how soft bostic was..

    that wasnt me..



    agreed with everything else tho..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 31, 2008, 08:37:33 AM
    OK SJFCARDS I'll give it a shot BUT, this is more difficult than the CPA exams.

    1/2.. Stevens/ NAZ ( Fridays game could be the factor)
    3..    Ithaca
    4/5..    Fisher/RIT

    I know the RIT call is crazy, BUT they are hot, and seem to be on a mission. Fisher needs to show me something as they have some tough games left.

    The more I look at this the more I'm convinced, I'M NOT CONVINCED. 

    If I just went by, on paper talent, coaching, schedule left and everything went according to Hoyle I would say..

    1. Stevens
    2. Naz
    3. Ithaca
    4. Fisher
    5. Rit
    6.Utica
    7.Hartwick?
    8.Elmira
    9.Alfred

    Any other thoughts from the guru's out there?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: triplethreat on January 31, 2008, 08:50:03 AM
    I Like...


    1. Naz                       
    2. Stevens
    3. Fisher
    4. Ithaca
    5. RIT
    6. Utica
    7. Hartwick
    8. Elmira
    9. Alfred
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2008, 08:58:05 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 30, 2008, 08:31:01 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 30, 2008, 11:07:58 AM
    Well Stevens lost to something called Baruch out of conference last night.  No word yet if this will cause the Ducks to cancel future games against Atah and Adonai (maybe only Superman57 gets that, maybe not).

    Indeed, Baruch appears to be a mediocre member of the Kosher Conference. Stevens would be hard pressed to beat Atah and Adonai.

    Kosher Conference Standings
    Adonai   13-2
    Asher     11-4
    Kideshanu   10-5
    Bemitzvotav  9-6
    Atah      8-7
    HaOlam  7-8
    Vitzivanu 7-8
    Baruch  6-9
    Eloheinu  4-11
    Melech   0-15




    absolutly hilarious... way to go pep and caz
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 31, 2008, 09:18:06 AM
    I think Ithaca only loses one more game, maybe to Fisher at their place but closes out their last weekend beating Stevens and Naz.

    Ithaca
    Naz
    Stevens
    Fisher
    Rit
    Utica
    Hartwick
    Elmira
    Alfred
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 31, 2008, 09:59:23 AM
    Bomber your going with your heart, and here we go again trying to make sense out of something that doesn't make sense. Tough to beat NAZ and Stevens back to back two consecutive days BUT since sense tells us that, maybe your right.  Here's one that doesn't make any sense, but so much so, that it might happen...... Watch out for Alfred, Elmira or Hartwick to pick someone off that will cost them in top 4?????   What say you great prognosticators. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 31, 2008, 10:10:23 AM
    I agree with Triple Threat:

    1. Naz                       
    2. Stevens
    3. Fisher
    4. Ithaca
    5. RIT
    6. Utica
    7. Hartwick
    8. Elmira
    9. Alfred

    Althought, the Fisher Ithaca  and Fisher Naz games will say a lot that are coming up about how good Fisher is going to be and is at this point in the season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 31, 2008, 10:15:29 AM
    I may be going with my heart, but Ithaca just had a hot streak ended with 5 in a row before RIT. With games coming up besides @ Fisher, i expect the schedule to allow for Ithaca to get hot again at the right time.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2008, 04:17:14 PM
    I think Fisher is going to win the National championship this year...the rest of the league sucks
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on January 31, 2008, 04:27:20 PM
    -k to super for a completely correctly spelled post!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on January 31, 2008, 04:56:48 PM
    Quote from: maxpower on January 31, 2008, 04:27:20 PM
    -k to super for a completely correctly spelled post!

    Thank You, Thank You...

    First off I would like to thank my 4th grade teacher Mrs. Solicito, secondly I would like to thank my parents and last but not least I would like to thank the letter A from sesame street
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on February 01, 2008, 12:19:11 AM
    Folks:

    D3hoopsNet will broadcast tomorrow night's Stevens-Nazareth men's game tipping off at 8 pm from Hoboken, NJ.  You can access the broadcast here starting at 7:50 pm:

    http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on February 01, 2008, 01:16:03 AM
    Bombers-  thanks for the info,  it's nice to know that even someone as talented as Burton can just have an off night.  I've only had a chance to see him once this season and other than Williams up at P-burg I haven't seen his equal in the 20 or so d-3 games I've been to in person.  Haven't watched any on the computer (it's just not the same for me).  (of course that Naz/Stevens game might tempt me just a little)      Nah, I'm gonna go see this Grazioli kid from Hobart and maybe catch Hamiliton within the weekend too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 01, 2008, 09:36:38 AM
    Important game for the Pioneers tonight.  They'll need the win to keep their outside shot at an E8 tourney berth, as well as hope for post-season play in ECAC's. 

    Stevens can really get a stranglehold on the regular season title with a victory tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 01, 2008, 11:29:43 AM
    I hope Naz left for Stevens on thursday, bad whether today in Ithaca and most of central NY. Makes for an ugly and long day of travel on the road.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bart1117 on February 01, 2008, 01:18:15 PM
    now that the whole confusion with my account has been cleared..id like to make a post concerning Stevens that actually comes from my keyboard and not some tool from Elmira..

    Have seen Stevens play 1x or 2x this year..have some friends on the team as well as the coaching staff, so I have been kept in the loop...A win tonight will be huge in them attempting to wrap up the E8..I am not that familiar with other teams in the league cept for reading up on them...however, stevens sseems to be winning games in the conference without all 5 guys really putting in work...Waleed Farid is top 5 players in the league talent wise, but he has not put up the scoring numbers he is capable of....on any given night he can put in 20, but now he is dominating games by rpg, apg, and being the "glue" guy..He has had games this year where he has dominated on both ends of the court..Gray on the other hand, gets to the rack whenever he wants..dont know if anyone in the league can guard him from what I have seen atleast..Passalaqua has a crazy jumpshot and seems to have a real good head for the game..Grecco is solid at the point and puts up some good numbers on a consistent basis..Tim Williams on the other hand is a house...Dude stats arent even close to what they could be if he got more shots..he is shooting ridiculously well from the field and he is essentially unstoppable when he gets position...and going off what my buddy from ELMIRA SAID AT TIMES, people who guard TIM WILLIAMS better not be SOFT or they might go home crying, because he will give the business down low if your not prepared..


    Like I said, I do not know much abotu other teams (as stated earlier that my buddy from Elmira seems to think everybody is "SOFT"") so I may be way off...but from what I have read on each team, Stevens seems to be the one to beat..Hopefully they pick up a big W tonight and wrap this conference up with a few more W's..


    I know recently some Stevens fans have started to post, but quite honestly it seems that most poeple up NORTH, don't even know how good Stevens really can be..They will find out tho come conference tourney time when they are hosting in Hoboken...



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 01, 2008, 01:48:06 PM
    BART, I have seen some of Stevens this year and your analysis looks like it is right on. The only problem in this league is, FORM doesn't always hold up.... very strange. That being said, I agree they will be tough in the Conference Tourney. They seem to thrive on important games... HOWEVER if the tourney is played at Fisher, (unlikely) it will be tough for anyone... Small gym, and area officials.......who knows...... remember look for Hartwick, Alfred or Elmira to spoil someone's finish...... ;)

       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 01, 2008, 02:27:18 PM
    If the tourny is hosted by Stevens or Fisher, then the hosting team will be the heavy favorites.  If it is hosted by Naz or Ithaca, then it is up for grabs.


    Stevens just dropped one to Baruch, they got by the first round of the league in close games, i think they will faulter at the end of the season and blow their chances of hosting, I think it is going to be Naz or Fisher.  If Naz wins tonight, then I do not think Stevens will be hosting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bart1117 on February 01, 2008, 03:09:02 PM
    agreed..tonight is a big game..


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2008, 04:20:08 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 01, 2008, 02:27:18 PM
    If the tourny is hosted by Stevens or Fisher, then the hosting team will be the heavy favorites.  If it is hosted by Naz or Ithaca, then it is up for grabs.


    Ithaca is just as good at home as Fisher is this year. They lost to St. Lawrence in OT and Burton wasn't even playing in that one. RIT was playing for its season and was the more desperate team. Desperation is a dangerous thing if you don't match that intensity, and Ithaca didn't. I promise you, in a setting like the E8 Tourney, The Bulb will be rockin' and it would be VERY difficult for any team to beat IC there. Besides, neither Stevens nor Fisher is setting the world on fire at home. Fisher had a four point win over Alfred and Stevens a three point win over Elmira. Fisher's home-court advantage is not as pronounced as it once was (direct correlation to the talent level of the team)>

    The Ithaca crowds get more intense as the stakes are raised. Unfortunately, the men's team hasn't had many huge games there in recent years. The campus would be stoked to have the E8 Tourney and I think you'd see a huge student turnout. That was always the case when the women hosted the tourney or played NCAA games while I was in school. Ask some of your Fisher womens' teams how easy it was to win in Ithaca during those big games. I think they'd tell you something different than what you wrote.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 01, 2008, 04:42:34 PM
    I think Naz and Stevens would chose to play Ithaca at Ithaca versus Fisher at Fisher anyday.  Stevens, not sure how good they are at home if you took out the road trip, but the trip is there, so they have an advantage, doesnt matter if you go down a day early or not.  The fisher at Ithaca game coming up will tell us more about how good fisher versus ithaca, tough to judge right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 01, 2008, 05:30:57 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 01, 2008, 04:42:34 PM
    I think Naz and Stevens would chose to play Ithaca at Ithaca versus Fisher at Fisher anyday.  Stevens, not sure how good they are at home if you took out the road trip, but the trip is there, so they have an advantage, doesnt matter if you go down a day early or not.  The fisher at Ithaca game coming up will tell us more about how good fisher versus ithaca, tough to judge right now.

    Well, considering the last time Naz won at Ithaca was '02 or '03, I'm not so sure about that. Like this regular season has been, the E8 Tourney will be wide open. The host will undoubtedly be the favorite, but any of the top four teams could win it this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 01, 2008, 06:42:25 PM
    I hear ya Gobombers, anyteam that hosts will be the favorite.  Naz is an awful road team so they should be concerned no matter where they go.  Fisher has only lost 1 or 2 conf. home games in about 4 or 5 years, yes the talent is down, but they are still undefeated at home this season, i know they havnt played everyone and probably will drop one to naz or ithaca if not both, but hey they are undefeated, with good wins over Stevens by double digits and murdering Utica who contends with everyother team. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 01, 2008, 07:46:11 PM
    Some important games around the state tonight,in all 3 leagues. 

    SUNYAC

    Brockport @ Fredonia         Golden Eagles 79-67

    Plattsburgh @ Oneonta      Cards must stay focused win 84-75

    Potsdam @ New Paltz         Battle for a playoff spot.  Bears 81-77

    Geneso@ Buff. St.               Battle for 3rd in the West.  Geneseo 74-70


    Empire 8

    St John Fisher @ Elmira       SJF wins 1st road game 74-61

    Nazareth @ Stevens            Revenge time & 1st place too Naz 78-76

    Hartwick @ Utica                  Must win for Utica  64-55


    Liberty League

    St. Lawrence @ Hamilton     Both teams on a roll but Hamilton at home 69-67




    Huge game in Rochester with Washington U. in town. Winner gets leg up in conference and National rankungs. UR wins this battle 76-70
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 01, 2008, 08:50:35 PM
    Looks like Kornaker took care of the letdown against weaker teams, Fisher up 20 at the half 33-13...

    Any word on the big game down in New Jersey? Naz and Stevens may be the most important game all year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 01, 2008, 09:20:33 PM
    Baltz is back for Fisher. He has 14 and Fisher leads by 30. Must be Fisher got the lead out tonight after that awful performance against Alfred
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 01, 2008, 09:26:50 PM
    Make that 43
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 01, 2008, 09:30:35 PM
    8 minutes left and Naz is up by 1.  Stevens' hold on first place may be about to slip tonight, stay tuned.

    EDIT: 3:30 left, Naz up 3, scoring-wise it's R. McAdam and Canori vs. Gray and Passalacqua in a 2 on 2 tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Duckman on February 01, 2008, 10:00:46 PM
    Stevens wins by 3 with clutch free throw shooting.  I believe no one lead by more than 7 the entire game.  It was a good one!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 01, 2008, 10:02:16 PM
    You're never going to believe this, it's crazy, but...Naz failed to close out a big game on the road.

    Naz gets whistled for two crucial foul calls in the final minute, the first one tied the game and the second put Stevens up 2 with 11 seconds left.  Down 3 with one second left Naz had a chance coming out of the timeout but looks like a long three wouldn't fall.  Ducks win 76-73 and take a first big step towards putting the E8 tournament in Hoboken.

    Virgil Gray with 25 for Stevens, Passalacqua adds 17.  22 and 15 for Ryan McAdam.  Big stat was Stevens, normally a 54 percent free throw shooting team going 17-21 at the line (81 percent).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 02, 2008, 12:33:01 AM
    I saw the NAZ Stevens game. It was one of the most entertaining games I've seen this year. It had more turns than I 90. I am pretty much convinced Virgil Grey may be the POY. He just took over when the Ducks needed it the most. Cory McAdam is good but when the game was tight he made some questionable decisions with the ball. Grey was guarding him and turned him over ( I know he turns it over allot) which  started a fast break which ended with Passalaqua at the line for 2 ( 90% shooter made both). I don't remember all the details but Stevens seemed to want it more, and Naz seems to FOG out when games are close. Canori held to 4 pts. in second half. Sundays game very important for the outcome of the league. If Stevens can hold home court, it's going to tough for Fisher to get that 1 seed. Ithaca needs to win some tough games to get the 1 seed. No matter what this is the most exiting season I have sen in a long while in this Conference........Still up in the air.... ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2008, 11:39:01 AM
    Second time that Naz has blown a late lead against Stevens this year. I'm guessing Naz wants another crack at them in the E8 Tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 02, 2008, 12:18:53 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2008, 11:39:01 AM
    Second time that Naz has blown a late lead against Stevens this year. I'm guessing Naz wants another crack at them in the E8 Tourney.

    So they can do it a third time...Onion Sports agrees: http://www.theonion.com/content/news/giants_we_almost_beat_the_patriots
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 03, 2008, 04:54:41 PM
    A couple thoughts (a day or two late) after watching the stevens-naz game online...

    - is it pathetic that i drank alone while watching this? keep your answers to yourselves...

    -as mentioned earlier, Stevens, despite their horrendous FT% on the season, won that game from the line. 17-21 (81%), that's impressive. Meanwhile, Naz went 67% and missed a lot of big ones down the stretch.

    -Virgil Gray made quite the case for conference POY going for 25, including a lot of big buckets and free throws.

    -Corey McAdam didn't do much to help his case for POY going for 6pts, 11 assts, 6rbs, and shooting 2-11 from the field and 4 to's. However, Ryan McAdam, made a good case for all-conference honors going for 22 and 15.  I bet had he played that first time against Stevens, Naz wouldve won.

    -Both teams shot poorly from behind the 3pt line, both at 28%. The difference, Passalacqua 4-9, Canori 2-9 , including one forced 3 in the last minute with the defender all up on him. He was defended well all game by Baker.

    -Tim Williams has to stay out of foul trouble, he's tough, but he only played 25 mins the other night. You can't do much from the bench, so my advice to him would be stya on the floor.

    -Looks like conference tourney will most likely be back in Jersey in a few weeks. Now what will the match-ups be? That's the tough call.

    ....prediction on RIT-Stevens...RIT by 4, just think they can get it. any word?

    PS- random question? What's up with the arm cover sleeves things that AI wears? Beigel reps one, as does Passalcqua, what's the point?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 04, 2008, 08:59:58 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 03, 2008, 04:54:41 PMPS- random question? What's up with the arm cover sleeves things that AI wears? Beigel reps one, as does Passalcqua, what's the point?

    AI started wearing it to hold a donut on his elbow when he had bursitis.  There is just no good way to wrap that so he started wearing that thing and he just liked it (ala Rip's mask). 

    I am fairly certain that less than 1% of the other 908245098254098 players that wear it have bursitis.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 04, 2008, 11:28:11 AM
    Here we go.........Stevens plays Hartwick next Sunday, at Hartwick. If they can stay awake, keep all 5 starters out of foul trouble, and overcome the homecourt issue, they should be ok. They don't play another leaugue game until  the following Sunday at Utica. Then another week before their finally at Ithaca.  The shape of the playoffs should really take effect between now and those last 2 games. By no means will it be settled, but who the main competition for 1st. place ( Ithaca, SJF or NAZ), should be clear.  Naz has it tough since they lost twice to Stevens so they cannot tie them. We're going to find out more about Fisher and Ithaca in these next few days. I saw the RIT Stevens game yesterday. Once again Stevens did not play well until there was an urgency. Looks like they slept through the first half and then played their game in second half. Scary if they ever play a full game. I'm going to get bold for a change.  I think NAZ finishes tied for 1st. wih Stevens.  ;)   

           
    Title: Tuesday's Ithaca-Oneonta Broadcast Info
    Post by: WICB Sports on February 04, 2008, 03:28:00 PM
    Coverage of Bombers basketball begins Tuesday at 5:40 p.m. Eastern time with Bombers Shootaround on 92 WICB (www.wicb.org).  Coverage of the women's contest between the Bombers and Oneonta tips off at 6 p.m., with Michael Polak and Matt McLaughlin with the call.

    At 7:40 p.m., pregame coverage of the men's game begins on vicradio.org.  At 8 p.m., Nate March and Andrew Sidney have the call from the Ben Light Gymnasium on vicradio.org.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 04, 2008, 06:27:02 PM
    Tomorrow is a huge game for both Fisher and Naz. Both teams can really go a long way toward improving their post season outlook with a big win tomorrow. Hopefully Fisher shows a little better than the last time.
    It is a tough deal for Naz, playing two really big games like that within a couple of days of each other. I guess we will really find out what Fisher has this year as well. They can establish themselves as a legitimate threat in the E8 with a win as well. Should be a lot of fun, however, I think Naz will find a way to come out on top (unfortunatley). This year I hate to say it, but I think they are just better. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 05, 2008, 03:45:46 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on February 04, 2008, 08:59:58 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 03, 2008, 04:54:41 PMPS- random question? What's up with the arm cover sleeves things that AI wears? Beigel reps one, as does Passalcqua, what's the point?

    AI started wearing it to hold a donut on his elbow when he had bursitis.  There is just no good way to wrap that so he started wearing that thing and he just liked it (ala Rip's mask). 

    I am fairly certain that less than 1% of the other 908245098254098 players that wear it have bursitis


    Beautiful  Jose +k
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 05, 2008, 08:26:42 AM
    Have you seen Biegel's elbow??? Probably not since the only time you see it is when he is playing. It's disgusting! He has injured it numerous times and he wears the sleeve with a elbow pad inside of it to protect his elbow. It's not because he thinks he is Iverson
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 05, 2008, 08:41:51 AM
    Quote from: jasper on February 05, 2008, 08:26:42 AMHave you seen Biegel's elbow???

    No.  I haven't seen any part of him, including his elbow.  In fact, he could be sitting in my office right now and I would have no idea who he is. 

    He may really be hurt but I could care less.  I am not sure that somehow discredits my previous point.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 05, 2008, 10:14:40 AM
    E8BBALLFAN, slight correction. You mentioned Canori was defended well all game by Baker. Baker played 19 minutes Canori played 40. Passalaqua guarded him as well, and did nice job. Hey The SJF/NAZ game tonight may be the biggest game of the year in E-8.  A NAZ loss puts them with 4 losses, and opens a small window for Utica. They play again, and Utica may jump on that. A loss by SJF, brings them into a virtual 3 way tie for 2nd. No team can afford to look ahead. If Stevens finishes 1st, I think they get an at large, even if they do not win the tourney. That would mean 2 get in from E-8. If Stevens wins the tourney, it may be tough for someone else to get in.  ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 05, 2008, 10:45:10 AM
    Good post Fromafar, I agree. 


    Looking at the prospective east region rankings, their may be some leeway as to teams getting at largest this year.  There is a lot of parity accross the board in all of the east region leagues this year, that being said, teams have more losses than in prior years.  If Naz finishes the season out with 1 or 2 more losses only i think they could get an atlarge.  Fisher can only affored to lose one same with Ithaca. If those are the cases then they could/probably will get an at large as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 05, 2008, 01:02:14 PM
    It might be tough for Fisher to get an at large bid, even if they win out in the regular season, and lose in the E8 championship. That scenario would give them 8 losses. Some of those losses are not going to help (hobart and Rochester by 23). Alos barely beating Keuka. The thing Fisher will have going for it is thay they were really hot at the end of the year. The problem is that they were so up and down this year. I think it will be tough for Fisher, Ithaca, or RIT to get an at large bid. The funny thing is that Fisher is taking care of business in the leage, and it is the bad games early in the season that are really going to hurt them.

    Naz has a fairly good shot at an at large if they can not lose more than one or two down the stretch, with 3 of their 5 losses comming to Stevens and Rochester (both tourny teams). A lot of whether the E8 gets 1 or 2 teams in will depend on what happens at the SUNYAC and LL. there are a few SUNY schools that will have an argument for an at large. But not as many in the LL.
    The parody in the E8 this year may keep the good teams in the league out this year. Where in the past really quality teams could get in because they would only have 2 or 3 losses after leage play started. (See Utica the last 2 years).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 05, 2008, 01:16:46 PM
    Only Stevens and Naz can legitimately think about an at-large bid...and I'm not entirely sure about Naz.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 05, 2008, 01:37:33 PM
    Tonights loser SJF/NAZ has to win Tourney to get in....  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 05, 2008, 02:35:38 PM
    I think 2 teams will go to NCAAs from the e-8, one being the champ (obviously) whom i anticipate to be stevens over naz, and then naz getting the at-large.

    at the moment naz has 5 losses, 2 coming to UR, 2 coming to Stevens, both top-20 teams. the other loss being IC of course. at this point, if they take care of business at SJFC and IC as well as no slip ups, i would anticipate them getting the at large. Uitca College was 20-5 when they got the at large and went to the 3rd round of the tourney a few seasons ago.

    could fisher get one? ehh, i doubt it, that'd be a big long shot.  right now they are 12-7 and would have to run the table, and get to the conference finals to get the at large bids.

    also, where do you find regional rankings?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 05, 2008, 04:08:38 PM
    Agreed e8bball fan, Naz may be able to take a loss at Fisher or IC and as long as they get to the conf champ. they still will have a long shot. 

    Go to the regional ranking post area, there just projections at this point.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Duckman on February 05, 2008, 08:38:04 PM
    Naz up on Fisher 42-27 at the half.
    Shooting percentages are similar in all categories, but Naz is taking A LOT more 2pt attempts (27 to fisher's 12).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 05, 2008, 08:41:21 PM
    Looks like Naz really has Fisher's number this season. Alright, back to detoxing. Happy Mardi Gras/Super Tuesday, everyone!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 05, 2008, 09:06:45 PM
    Ok here we go. Naz up big at the half....do they once again fold??? Or is this the turning point for NAZ and is SJF done?    I think NAZ will hold on IF Corey McAdam doesn't try to beef up his assists and start inflating his already inflated T/O's, and if Canori doesn't start hoisting it up unnecessarily. Doesn't look like a super Tuesday for Fisher, BUT with NAZ, it's not over yet. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 05, 2008, 09:53:01 PM
    Fisher never quit against Naz, but ultimatley did not have enogh. Fisher came back to get the lead down to 3-4 late (down by 15 at the half). A big win for Naz, if they have any chance of winning the league.

    Fisher took a big step back tonight, but is still in good shape for a E8 tourny bid, if they can take care of business the rest of the way. Two big ones left against Ithaca, and one each against RIT and Utica should give them plenty of opportunity to get themselves into the final 4.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 05, 2008, 09:53:25 PM
    Ithaca crushes Suny Oneonta, final score was about 95-57. The school record for three pointers was in jeopardy tonight and may have been broken. Bostic had a big game, another double double and close to 10 blocks. Big games from Burton, Kail, Leahy and Freshman Chris Cruz off the bench. Ithaca was in control for most of the game and cruised they entire second half. I'm happy they weren't looking ahead to the match-up with Fisher on Friday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 05, 2008, 09:58:40 PM
    The two Fisher/Ithaca games left will have a lot to say about the playoff picture. If either team finds a way to win both games, the team that losses the games, may find themselves on the outside looking in as far as the tourny goes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 05, 2008, 11:41:26 PM
    Welp, fishers chances of hosting are over.  Unfortunately naz has no wins over stevens so probably wont either.  I guess all we can do is route for Ithaca to beat Fisher once and Stevens.  I think if the tourny goes to Ithaca, it will be Fishers best chance of winning.  I didnt think Fisher was going to come out on top versus Naz.  With ryan mcadam back I think they are the best team in the league.  The most experienced and talented.  However, can see them faultering in the tourny if they dont host as they are not a great road team.  I think if naz wins out and drops one in the tourny the will get an automatic bid.  Looks like Ithaca was on fire tonight. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: DirkDiggler on February 05, 2008, 11:46:38 PM
    It surprises me that Fisher has 7 coaches and still can't get a game plan to beat Naz.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 06, 2008, 01:51:05 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 05, 2008, 01:02:14 PM
    It might be tough for Fisher to get an at large bid, even if they win out in the regular season, and lose in the E8 championship. That scenario would give them 8 losses. Some of those losses are not going to help (hobart and Rochester by 23). Alos barely beating Keuka. The thing Fisher will have going for it is thay they were really hot at the end of the year. The problem is that they were so up and down this year. I think it will be tough for Fisher, Ithaca, or RIT to get an at large bid. The funny thing is that Fisher is taking care of business in the leage, and it is the bad games early in the season that are really going to hurt them.

    Naz has a fairly good shot at an at large if they can not lose more than one or two down the stretch, with 3 of their 5 losses comming to Stevens and Rochester (both tourny teams). A lot of whether the E8 gets 1 or 2 teams in will depend on what happens at the SUNYAC and LL. there are a few SUNY schools that will have an argument for an at large. But not as many in the LL.
    The parody in the E8 this year may keep the good teams in the league out this year. Where in the past really quality teams could get in because they would only have 2 or 3 losses after leage play started. (See Utica the last 2 years).


    That's pretty much the way I see it as well. Liberty League winner, probably SLU or Hamilton gets in and early season losses hurts the loser of that tournament. Some good wins by both teams but some pretty bad losses as well. Tough for 2 teams out of this conference to get bids.

    The SUNYAC will get 2 bids if Plattsburgh State loses the conference tournament. The 2 teams most likely to take the crown away from the Cardinals are Brockport or Oswego, but you can't dismiss Cortland's capabilities.  Cards were fortunate to only play both these teams once during the regular season. Barring an upset in the early rounds the Cards will face one of them for the automatic bid. Revenge factor looms large for a rematch with either team.  Oswego with less losses than Bport(4 to 6) but the Golden Eagles have a leg up on them in the standings. Big meeting between them on Feb. 9th. If either one wins out and loses in the SUNYAC Championship game to Plattsburgh I think that team will get in. Port has some tough losses(UR by 5, Plattsburgh by 3 in OT, and both Liberty League leaders Hamilton and SLU) none were blowouts. Possible 21-7 record. Oswego's only losses to 4 of the top teams in the region(Plattsburgh, Naz, SLU, and Bport) with 3 of these coming on the road. Possible 21-5 record.  Personally I think Brockport has the better chance.

    Actually Naz has lost twice each to UR and Stevens, top 25 teams all year, making them look better than anyone else in the E8. Their schedule down the stretch is more favorable than either Fisher or Ithaca and the possibilty of ending up 21-6 assuming a loss in the conference championship and a win in that season finale at Ithaca on Feb. 23rd gets them a bid I believe.  I don't think anyone else has a shot unless of course they win the automatic bid.  And any of the top 4 teams in the conference are capable of doing that.

    And sjfcards which one is it. ;)          parity = equality, as in amount, status, or value.
                                                                                         
                                                  parody=a literary or artistic work that broadly mimics 
                                                                           an author's characteristic style and holds it
                                                                            up to ridicule. 2. A performance so bad as to
                                                                            be equivalent to intentional mockery;
                                                                            travesty
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 06, 2008, 07:18:08 AM
    FisherDynasty let's look at what needs to happen for Ithaca to host. Of course if Stevens falls apart and loses to 2 of the remaining 3 games and Ithaca wins out, then DONE. Let's say Ithaca beats Stevens in last game. Could very well happen. Let's say Ithaca wins out, the they are tied. They would have split so next is best record against subsequent finishers in descending order. So let's put Naz in 3rd. The would have to lose to ITHACA for this scenario, therefore Ithaca and Stevens would have swept NAZ so down to Fisher. Ithaca would have swept Fisher and Stevens split, therefore in Ithaca. HOWEVER, I don see Ithaca sweeping NAZ, Fisher, and Stevens and if they do, they deserve it. Also, Stevens has a tough game at Utica as well.   Still a little to early to think about. Right now Stevens and Ithaca have to take them One ata time. Nazareth feeling pretty good after last night and looking to give themselves their best chance to get in the NCAA, so they won't be an easy out for Ithaca. I think Stevens sweep of Nazareth plays a big part in where the E 8 is going to be played. I'm not sure Nazareth is the best team experience wise. Stevens has NCAA experience and all 5 starters were intragal in getting to the sweet 16. Listen one thing we have all learned this year is nothing is definite, and what we see on paper means nothing.  ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 06, 2008, 10:17:05 AM
    good points fromafar.  have to agree on just about everything mentioned. i'd give you a +1k but i dont even know how to do that haha.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 06, 2008, 10:49:15 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 06, 2008, 10:17:05 AM
    good points fromafar.  have to agree on just about everything mentioned. i'd give you a +1k but i dont even know how to do that haha.

    You just click "applaud" under the username on the left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 06, 2008, 11:11:39 PM
    RIT takes care of Alfred, 68-48. This one was never all that competitive. Mark Carson with 18 and 9 for the Tigers. Kenny Gethers only played 9 minutes. Is he hurt?

    Alright, signing off for the night. This independent voter is waking up at the crack of dawn to see Obama tomorrow. Early line on the over/under for number of times he says the words "audacity" and some form of the word "hope": 83.5.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on February 07, 2008, 01:10:36 AM
    To do a parody of parity:  Lots of the "big name" conferences have lots of parity which is particulary peculiar as participants pound each other pointing towards the possiblity of a plethora of possibilities for participation of said programs in the promised land of the NCAA prompting platitudes from pompous prognosticators profusely professing pointed predictions pertaining to said participation.                       Translation:  Lots of losses in every conference- Naz has a chance of an at large if they run the league table and lose in the Championship game to anybody. Stevens has a very good chance unless they stumble badly down the stretch.   For any other e-8 school to participate - please win tournament or look up ECAC in the basketball dictionary!  ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 07, 2008, 02:23:59 AM
    with age

    That was hilarious. I think you were trying to sneak one by me again.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 07, 2008, 06:09:55 AM
    Quote from: with age comes? on February 07, 2008, 01:10:36 AM
    To do a parody of parity:  Lots of the "big name" conferences have lots of parity which is particulary peculiar as participants pound each other pointing towards the possiblity of a plethora of possibilities for participation of said programs in the promised land of the NCAA prompting platitudes from pompous prognosticators profusely professing pointed predictions pertaining to said participation.                       Translation:  Lots of losses in every conference- Naz has a chance of an at large if they run the league table and lose in the Championship game to anybody. Stevens has a very good chance unless they stumble badly down the stretch.   For any other e-8 school to participate - please win tournament or look up ECAC in the basketball dictionary!  ;D

    Pep prefers Posting Uppppp posters popping Ps....+K
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on February 07, 2008, 05:51:46 PM
    B-port can beat Naz 7 out of 10!!! Take that to the bank!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bports on February 07, 2008, 07:51:20 PM
    Scotter quit trying to cause trouble
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on February 07, 2008, 11:24:12 PM
    I want to get a rise out of the Empire boys!!! Bport over Naz
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 07, 2008, 11:30:38 PM
    I hate naz, but still think Naz is as good as bport. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on February 08, 2008, 01:27:11 AM
    For what it's worth, I'd take Brockport on a neutral court against Nazareth.  I like the Golden Eagles depth and would love to see McAdam and Harris go at it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 08, 2008, 07:25:35 AM
    Scooterman, your a regular Mad Dog Russo, ( he too loves to stir the juices), I'll bite, you just may get that match up, OR Stevens in the NCAA, or whoever gets in from E 8.  Whoever in E 8 it is, should be good game. I've got my eye on B-port now, thanks to you....... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on February 08, 2008, 09:01:01 AM
    That's all I wanted to accomplish--I am not a Naz hater or Empire hater--good friends graduated from many E8 schools!! Coach Burton at Ithaca will get those boys rolling---Watch out!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 08, 2008, 01:18:09 PM
    Predictions for tonight's games:

    ITHACA over Fisher, 76-67.
    Big advantage for the Bombers to be playing this one in Ithaca. I think the key matchup in this one will be Baltz v. Burton. Fisher can't allow Ithaca to have a huge advantage in that matchup if they expect to get the road win. Fisher's chances go up exponentially if Baltz can have a good night. If Ithaca is hitting their shots early, could be a long night for Fisher. I think, though, this is about a 5-point game with 5 minutes left before Ithaca pulls away with FT's. I can't ignore the fact that Fisher is 2-4 this season against RIT/Naz/Stevens this season and has no big road wins to date.

    Naz over HARTWICK, 82-81 (OT)
    I really wanted to pick the upset in this one and I may be kicking myself for not doing so if it happens. Again, this is one of those gut feelings, the same type as I had for Stevens at Fisher. I really have this inkling that Hartwick is going to pull the stunner in this one. We already know that the unexpected should be expected in the E8 this season, but we haven't had any games where the bottom third of teams (Hartwick, Elmira, Alfred) has pulled the upset, though they have come close in several instances. Interesting fact: Hartwick has won FOUR in a row against Nazareth. Screw it, I've talked myself into it...HARTWICK beats Naz, 85-82 (OT).

    Bamm, received something in the mail from you and the significant other yesterday. Quality.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 08, 2008, 05:18:30 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 08, 2008, 01:18:09 PM
    Predictions for tonight's games:

    ITHACA over Fisher, 76-67.
    Big advantage for the Bombers to be playing this one in Ithaca. I think the key matchup in this one will be Baltz v. Burton. Fisher can't allow Ithaca to have a huge advantage in that matchup if they expect to get the road win. Fisher's chances go up exponentially if Baltz can have a good night. If Ithaca is hitting their shots early, could be a long night for Fisher. I think, though, this is about a 5-point game with 5 minutes left before Ithaca pulls away with FT's. I can't ignore the fact that Fisher is 2-4 this season against RIT/Naz/Stevens this season and has no big road wins to date.



    Just got back from a class and working out. I think the x factor for tonight's game will be the crowd. Ithaca has had some big ones this year and tonight is suppose to be the biggest. The game has been highly publicized on campus and a lot of other sport teams are going to be there to show support. I expect the big crowd to help the Bombers get on some big runs. Besides that I agree with you GB15, i think it will be a games of runs until Ithaca makes one last push and wins by 10-15.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 08, 2008, 09:53:10 PM
    Fisher up 6 on Ithaca with 1 minute to go, looks like its a wrap.  bieal weith 20, newman with 22 and smalt with 16.  Looks like the Naz game woke them up a little bit. I liked the match up with Ithaca this year thats why I predicted them to sweep Ithaca.  Tonights was what i was waiting for to see exactly where Ithaca stands, and what i thought was going to happen, happened.  They are still a year away, although could get hot in the tourny and get wins just like any of the other teams that make it.  I think as smalt gets more games in, newman hopefully keeps coming on similarly to last year at the end of the season,  fishers freshmen get a little more experience they could peak at the right time.  Who knows though, not sure if they can beat Naz and Stevens away from their home floor.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 08, 2008, 10:15:22 PM
    Bad luck for the Bombers, rallying from 11 down to take a short-lived one point lead before Fisher answers with a 7-0 run. It was frustrating watching LiveStats. Looked like Fisher got 2 offensive rebounds off missed front-ends of 1-and-1's late and another one where Ithaca got the rebound but lost it out of bounds. Not sure if Fisher is a bad matchup for Ithaca. Newman has a birthday game tonight with something like 24 points. Color me wrong if he duplicates that effort in Pittsford, but methinks he won't.

    Also, can someone tell me why Bostic had taken only 7 shots with 6 minutes left??Why in all of God's goodness is Ithaca not pounding it to him on every play when Fisher has two bigs that are seemingly in foul trouble every game. I just don't understand that. Nice night for Burton, though, with 36 and 10 assists, but missed 3 big FT's down the stretch...very unlike him. I'm guessing he was gassed.

    Ithaca's chances of hosting are gone after this bad loss.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 08, 2008, 11:42:11 PM
    Just got back from the Fisher/IC game...

    It was a good game, very high scoring, closely contested the entire way. I have a couple thoughts. Ithaca is good. They can shoot the lights out, and Burton is amazing. I can see why they beat teams, and the could be very dangerous in the tournament if they shoot well. A good crowd as well. Seemed like they were trying to keep the team in it till the very end.

    I was impressed with Fisher's ability to put a way a pesky IC team. They played well down the stretch, and really responded to Ithaca taking the lead with about 4-5 minutes left. Good games from Smalt, Beigle, and Newman. When Fisher can work the ball inside to Smalt, and Beigle, they are a much better team. Both had good games against Bostic and crew. A good win all around, especially on the road.

    The next game between these teams should be another great one. Just as high scoring hopefully. Should get easier for Fisher from here, being done with Naz, and Stevens, as well as getting IC at home.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 08, 2008, 11:45:51 PM
    Also, if anyone has any word on what the deal is with Beigle I would appreciate it.

    He went down with about 13 seconds left, and it did not look all the great. He got up, and was carried to the bench, looked like an ankle?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYBB on February 09, 2008, 02:46:36 AM
    NAZ 73, WICK 61.  WICK = another weak season + upsetting alumni by trying to dismantle the D1 soccer program yet again.

    A good question : when was the last time Hartwick had a winning season?  Their best team to date was in 2002-2003 but they didn't really convert their talent with Blackwell + others into success.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 09, 2008, 10:38:34 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 08, 2008, 11:45:51 PM
    Also, if anyone has any word on what the deal is with Beigle I would appreciate it.

    He went down with about 13 seconds left, and it did not look all the great. He got up, and was carried to the bench, looked like an ankle?

    He sprained his ankle...it was swollen after the game but he'll be fine.....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 09, 2008, 10:42:46 AM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 08, 2008, 05:18:30 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 08, 2008, 01:18:09 PM
    Predictions for tonight's games:

    [

    Just got back from a class and working out. I think the x factor for tonight's game will be the crowd. Ithaca has had some big ones this year and tonight is suppose to be the biggest. The game has been highly publicized on campus and a lot of other sport teams are going to be there to show support. I expect the big crowd to help the Bombers get on some big runs. Besides that I agree with you GB15, i think it will be a games of runs until Ithaca makes one last push and wins by 10-15.

    I didn't think the crowd was a factor at all. Fisher controlled most of the game and jumped out early. Burton did have a great night shooting but let's face it Ithaca lost. I think the X factor in the game was the 13 points from McKeever. Baltz didn't get many open looks and McKeever didn't miss a shot from the floor. Should be another good one next weekend.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 09, 2008, 12:05:41 PM
    Quote from: jasper on February 09, 2008, 10:42:46 AM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 08, 2008, 05:18:30 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 08, 2008, 01:18:09 PM
    Predictions for tonight's games:

    [

    Just got back from a class and working out. I think the x factor for tonight's game will be the crowd. Ithaca has had some big ones this year and tonight is suppose to be the biggest. The game has been highly publicized on campus and a lot of other sport teams are going to be there to show support. I expect the big crowd to help the Bombers get on some big runs. Besides that I agree with you GB15, i think it will be a games of runs until Ithaca makes one last push and wins by 10-15.

    I didn't think the crowd was a factor at all. Fisher controlled most of the game and jumped out early. Burton did have a great night shooting but let's face it Ithaca lost. I think the X factor in the game was the 13 points from McKeever. Baltz didn't get many open looks and McKeever didn't miss a shot from the floor. Should be another good one next weekend.

    I don't think the crowd really did anything to fisher either. Fisher jumped out to a lead early, and responded to most of IC's runs. However, living in Cortland I get to a lot of IC games. Usually the crowd is thin at best, and does not seem very interested (also they have a tendency to leave early). Last night the crowd seemed a lot more into the game, and did not stop cheering till the very end.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 09, 2008, 01:25:36 PM
    Newman with 22 is what killed Ithaca. No reason he should ever score that many. When I saw him play against Utica a couple weeks ago, I honestly thought he was a game or two from losing his starting spot to Franklin for the rest of his career. He just looked lost and had no confidence on the offensive end.

    Bostic needs to be more involved second time around for these two teams. He's too much of a matchup problem for teams to not be used properly. He's capable of getting Beigel and/or Smalt in foul trouble
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 09, 2008, 01:49:32 PM
    The main problems in last night games where starting starting slow, points the paint and points off turnovers. Ithaca dug themselves a hole at the start of both the first and second half. That is something that takes a lot of energy to come back from and when guys are playing heavy minutes (40, 35 and 35) you run out of gas.

    Smalt and Beigel both had great games, shot 17 of 27 and combined for 39 points. They had a lot of time to go to work inside, got to get a feel for the defender make some dribbles and make any move they wanted. That really hurt Ithaca, just like Newman and McKeever, did as well.  To think you would hold Baltz to 8 points and lose is very tough.

    Lastly it was points off turnovers, it seemed like Fisher got every lose ball and converted on the offensive end. IThaca couldn't convert their steals in to points and got beat to all loose balls.

    I think those are all adjustments and effort realated things that Ithaca can use to prepare for a week from today. I expect another great game up at Fisher.

    As for Beigel, he was down on the floor and looked to be in pain. After the game he had ice on the ankle and was walking on crutches. I don't know what to think of it, he was putting weight on the ankle, he wasn't just using the good foot, so that makes me think its not severe, but who knows how fast it will heal.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 09, 2008, 05:24:33 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 09, 2008, 01:25:36 PM
    Newman with 22 is what killed Ithaca. No reason he should ever score that many. When I saw him play against Utica a couple weeks ago, I honestly thought he was a game or two from losing his starting spot to Franklin for the rest of his career. He just looked lost and had no confidence on the offensive end.

    Bostic needs to be more involved second time around for these two teams. He's too much of a matchup problem for teams to not be used properly. He's capable of getting Beigel and/or Smalt in foul trouble

    Losing his starting spot?? Obviously you don't know Fisher. Franklin is not ready to start. He is streaky and cannot handle the ball. He is called for a carry every game. His defense is terrible (McAdam scored on him 3 times in a row late in the game against Naz) Say what you will but Newman is going to be a great player. He can score, pass, play d and can rebound very well for his height.

    It's kinda hard for Bostic to be involved when Burton shoots 27 times and only hits 11. I know he had 37 points but he did miss 10 three's. From what i saw yes he did have some nice blocks on Fisher's big men but most of the time Beigel and Smart scored easily with lay-ups.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 09, 2008, 07:34:20 PM
    I have no problem with Burton shooting 27 times if he's going to score 37. The old adage is that you have to score at least one point for every FG attempted. He had almost 1.5 pts/FG attempt, that's exceptional. 

    Re: Newman/Franklin, for a long time Franklin was playing much better than Newman. Franklin was the only player who did anything against Stevens the first time around. Franklin may be outta control sometimes, but I think he brings a lot more to the table than Newman (based on two seasons of seeing Newman), namely some added quickness to Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 09, 2008, 07:43:00 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 09, 2008, 01:49:32 PM
    The main problems in last night games where starting starting slow, points the paint and points off turnovers. Ithaca dug themselves a hole at the start of both the first and second half. That is something that takes a lot of energy to come back from and when guys are playing heavy minutes (40, 35 and 35) you run out of gas.

    Smalt and Beigel both had great games, shot 17 of 27 and combined for 39 points. They had a lot of time to go to work inside, got to get a feel for the defender make some dribbles and make any move they wanted. That really hurt Ithaca, just like Newman and McKeever, did as well.  To think you would hold Baltz to 8 points and lose is very tough.

    Lastly it was points off turnovers, it seemed like Fisher got every lose ball and converted on the offensive end. IThaca couldn't convert their steals in to points and got beat to all loose balls.

    I think those are all adjustments and effort realated things that Ithaca can use to prepare for a week from today. I expect another great game up at Fisher.

    As for Beigel, he was down on the floor and looked to be in pain. After the game he had ice on the ankle and was walking on crutches. I don't know what to think of it, he was putting weight on the ankle, he wasn't just using the good foot, so that makes me think its not severe, but who knows how fast it will heal.

    Sounds just about right to me. That basically was the difference in an otherwise even game, between even teams. Fisher played well, especially on the road. I think Fisher and IC are very close in overall team ability, hence the similar records, and close game between them. It would not suprise me to see either team, if not both, pull an upset in the E8 tournament.

    As far as Newman/Franklin goes, it could be nice to have both of them on the floor for a few more years. Maybe turn one of them into more of a two guard, and have both of them to bring the ball up the floor. It would take away from their overall team size with Baltz playing a small forward, but Fisher has to rebuild at the big men spots after thisyear anyway. Also, Franklin can rebound very well with his jumping ability, so he can pull down rebounds in an undersized lineup. If Fisher can get some big men in this years recruiting class, it can lead to some success down the road.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 09, 2008, 08:37:34 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 09, 2008, 07:34:20 PM
    I have no problem with Burton shooting 27 times if he's going to score 37. The old adage is that you have to score at least one point for every FG attempted. He had almost 1.5 pts/FG attempt, that's exceptional. 

    Re: Newman/Franklin, for a long time Franklin was playing much better than Newman. Franklin was the only player who did anything against Stevens the first time around. Franklin may be outta control sometimes, but I think he brings a lot more to the table than Newman (based on two seasons of seeing Newman), namely some added quickness to Fisher.

    Well you did have a problem with Bostic not getting involved so what is it? If Burton is gonna shot like he did last night Bostic is not gonna get involved. It may be exceptional but it came in a game that Ithaca lost.

    Now back to Franklin i disagree, Newman overall is a better smarter player. Franklin may be quicker but he doesn't use it to his advantage expecially on the defensive end. (reference McAdam)  I am no way a huge Newman fan because truth be known i think McKeever handles the point better but Newman overall has done a better job than Franklin.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 09, 2008, 09:24:49 PM
    Having seen them both play quite a bit there is no question that Franklin is a better option that Newman.  He's quicker, more of a matchup problem on the offensive end, and a much better athlete.  Given the talent on the floor, someone like Franklin is needed much more than Newman.  In years past, when Fisher had some size and other options, Franklin probably would have been better off the bench.  I know you keep bringing up the McAdam's thing for defense, but really, who in the conference has stopped the kid all season consistently.  I mean it's not like he was letting trash score on him...its an all conference player.


    Problem is, Ozell is not, and should not, play the point.  He is a 2 guard.  However, if you are asking me to put my 5 best basketball players on the court, and the last spot came down to Ozell/Newman...its Ozell.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 09, 2008, 09:39:18 PM
    RIT effectively ends any shot Utica had at a tourney bid today.  The three big scorers -- Gethers, Carson, and Herring -- all had nice games.  Nice to see Gethers and Roy playing well down the stretch in their senior seasons.

    GB15 -- Yeah, we had fun with those things, and it seems like everyone is getting a kick out of them.  I presume you were going to see Obama because you're a fan -- tonight's gotta be a happy night.  It will probably be a happy month.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 09, 2008, 11:57:00 PM
    Quote from: jasper on February 09, 2008, 08:37:34 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 09, 2008, 07:34:20 PM
    I have no problem with Burton shooting 27 times if he's going to score 37. The old adage is that you have to score at least one point for every FG attempted. He had almost 1.5 pts/FG attempt, that's exceptional. 

    Re: Newman/Franklin, for a long time Franklin was playing much better than Newman. Franklin was the only player who did anything against Stevens the first time around. Franklin may be outta control sometimes, but I think he brings a lot more to the table than Newman (based on two seasons of seeing Newman), namely some added quickness to Fisher.

    Well you did have a problem with Bostic not getting involved so what is it? If Burton is gonna shot like he did last night Bostic is not gonna get involved. It may be exceptional but it came in a game that Ithaca lost.

    Now back to Franklin i disagree, Newman overall is a better smarter player. Franklin may be quicker but he doesn't use it to his advantage expecially on the defensive end. (reference McAdam)  I am no way a huge Newman fan because truth be known i think McKeever handles the point better but Newman overall has done a better job than Franklin.

    There's enough shots to go around for the two of them. They were both 1st team all-conference players last year, so other players will have to show a little deference to them. Would I want Burton shooting 27 times per night? Probably not. But if he's going to do it, 37 points is a great output. My problem was that Ithaca didn't attack Beigel and Smalt, two players who seemingly step up off the bus and already have 3 fouls on them.

    In happier news, we can probably sound the 21-gun salute for the '07-'08 Utica Pioneers' hopes for an E8 Tourney berth. RIT owns the tiebreaker against them and Utica has a fairly difficult schedule down the stretch. UC probably needs to run the table plus get some additional help to even have a chance, albeit a slim one.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 10, 2008, 12:24:19 PM
    I was a little suprised myself that IC did not use Bostic inside to force Beigle and Smalt to defend without fouling. Getting inside on Fisher and getting the two of them in foul trouble makes Fisher very one demensional (not their best dimension either). Burton had the hot hand, but IC could have won with 20 from him, if Franklin and Smalt did not have 39 between them.

    So sad to see Utica basically put away. It looks like the E8 tournament is getting close to being settled. RIT can still slip in, but it would take some doing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 10, 2008, 05:59:36 PM
    Newman is better than franklin without question. Don't get me wrong, he has been underachieving and quite disappointing this season.  At the end of last year he took it to ryan mcadam and just about every point guard leading up to the sweet 16.  He plays good D, hes poised, rebounds, and distrubutes the basketball.  Sometimes he doesnt try to score which can be frustrating watching.  Either way, I think he will come on strong similarly to last year at the right time.  When he scores he can be as important as any pg in the conference.  Ozell can be good and will be good but like what was said before needs to improve on his D, espeically his help D and decision making.  Hes only a freshman so his weaknesses are common. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 11, 2008, 11:40:11 AM
    after reviewing some upcoming schedules, Ithaca is riding a tight rope.  They have Fisher, Naz, and Stevens left on their schedule.  If RIT gets a big win at Fisher and takes care of utica they could get in over ithaca to wrap up the 4 team tourny.  I personally think RIT is better lost some very close games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 11, 2008, 12:45:52 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 11, 2008, 11:40:11 AM
    after reviewing some upcoming schedules, Ithaca is riding a tight rope.  They have Fisher, Naz, and Stevens left on their schedule.  If RIT gets a big win at Fisher and takes care of utica they could get in over ithaca to wrap up the 4 team tourny.  I personally think RIT is better lost some very close games.

    A lot of if's in that. Very speculative.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 11, 2008, 02:13:37 PM
    yes there is, thus, is why its just a statement to note.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 11, 2008, 02:30:15 PM
    I put this in the east region rankings, but I figured e8 might have better insight.  Supposing Stevens and Naz DON'T win the e8 tourney, is there any shot the e8 sends 3 teams to the tourney?  (assuming neither team struggles down the stretch and only loses 1 more game, maybe 2..including e8 tourney)

    Stevens - Top 25 all year, 19-3 at the moment

    Naz - Has been in the "others getting votes" a couple times, only 5 losses, mostly to tournament bound teams.


    Is there any chance that both teams could grab a Pool C, or is it going to be one or the other?  And if so, does the 2 head to head wins by Stevens basically make them the Pool C lock out of the 2.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 11, 2008, 02:51:29 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 11, 2008, 02:30:15 PM
    I put this in the east region rankings, but I figured e8 might have better insight.  Supposing Stevens and Naz DON'T win the e8 tourney, is there any shot the e8 sends 3 teams to the tourney?  (assuming neither team struggles down the stretch and only loses 1 more game, maybe 2..including e8 tourney)

    Stevens - Top 25 all year, 19-3 at the moment

    Naz - Has been in the "others getting votes" a couple times, only 5 losses, mostly to tournament bound teams.


    Is there any chance that both teams could grab a Pool C, or is it going to be one or the other?  And if so, does the 2 head to head wins by Stevens basically make them the Pool C lock out of the 2.

    Would be very surprised if the E8 had three teams in the NCAA Tourney. The conference doesn't have a great national rep, so that would hurt. I think Naz would be the odd team out if Fisher/Ithaca/RIT were to win the E8 Tournament. Assuming such a scenario, Naz would have at least six losses. Also, don't forget Naz has to play at Ithaca still, a place where they've historically been pretty awful. I think Stevens can lose two more games and still get an at-large. For Naz to get an at-large, I think they probably have to run the regular season table then make it to the E8 Tourney finals.

    An interesting scenario would be if Stevens loses to Utica or Ithaca, gets bounced in the E8 Semis and Naz loses in the E8 Finals after winning the remainder of their regular season games. Even then, I think the committee would give the nod to Stevens by virtue of their two regular season escapes against Naz.
    Title: Radio coverage of Tuesday's Ithaca-Elmira games
    Post by: WICB Sports on February 11, 2008, 02:54:38 PM
    Coverage of Tuesday's Ithaca-Elmira Empire 8 contests begins with Bombers Shootaround at 5:40 p.m. Eastern time on 91.7 FM in Ithaca and online at www.wicb.org.  Tip-off of the women's game is at 6 p.m. on WICB.

    At 7:40 p.m. Eastern, coverage of the men's game begins with Bombers Shootaround on VIC Radio (www.vicradio.org).  Tip-off is at 8 p.m. on VIC Radio.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 11, 2008, 03:00:16 PM
    I'm not sure what changes might have been made to the whatever they are calling the D3 Regional SOS formula these days, but both Stevens and Naz may have pretty good numbers when compared to other teams that would be looking for at large berths.

    All of Stevens' games are in region.  A 19-3 mark, no matter whom the losses are to, is going to make an impressive figure.  Then consider that all losses were on the road, and only one was to a sub .500 team (Baruch) -- they are a lock (barring a total collapse).

    Naz, according to the D3hoops schedule, has also played all in-region games.  They have 5 losses, but four are to Rochester and Stevens.  Wins @Fisher, @RIT, @Oswego, @Utica, and Geneseo (neutral) will help their number -- and it would be helpful if they won @Ithaca in a couple of weeks.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 11, 2008, 03:06:13 PM
    Quote
    EA  23   01   01   0.6378 0.5107 0.5296 Plattsburgh State         003  A w C       16-0 19-2
    EA  90   02   02   0.6704 0.6328 0.5741 Rochester                 006  A w C       16-3 17-3
    EA  23   03   06   0.6181 0.5850 0.5378 Brockport State           031  C 11        13-4 16-6
    EA  21   04   04   0.6282 0.6083 0.5462 Nazareth                  033  A w C       15-5 15-5
    EA  21   05   03   0.5724 0.4459 0.5340 Stevens                   035  C 13        19-3 19-3
    EA  23   06   05   0.6013 0.5793 0.5242 Oswego State              047  C second    13-5 15-5
    EA  24   07   08   0.5717 0.5289 0.5232 St. Lawrence              065  A third     12-5 13-8
    EA  23   08   09   0.5487 0.4558 0.5334 Cortland State            074              15-5 17-5


    Here they have Brockport as an at large and Stevens as an at large (i guess they are saying Naz will win..makes no sense to have Naz as the A w C) but that point aside, I wonder what Naz's number would be if they got it right.  Stevens right now is C 13 out of 18 teams....I think Naz may be somewhere between C 16 - C 24.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 11, 2008, 04:14:07 PM
    even more interesting if Naz and stevens run the reg. season table, then like Gobombers said Stevens gets upset in the semi's, and Naz loses in the championship.  Both teams would be legitimate contenders for the ncaa tourny, however, i feel like the committee will only give it to one.  Utica was left out two years ago after they had a sweet 16 season and only 6 losses.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on February 11, 2008, 05:14:33 PM
    Oswego had a terrific team in '04-05.  They got left out with 5 losses and a number of quality wins to their credit.  IIRC they were one of the bubble teams that year.

    I doubt that the E-8 will have more than one pool C. 

    Particularly with Middlebury lurking in the Pool C mix, and a very easy trip to Plattsburgh for a first or second round game.  NCAA hasn't been bashful about shipping New England teams to Upstate NY (Tufts to Cortland, Salem St to Potsdam) & Plattsburgh is right there on the doorstep to Vermont.

    Also consider that if Stevens is the E8 AQ, they still could get shipped to the NY/NJ or Mid Atlantic region to balance the brackets.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 11, 2008, 07:26:02 PM
    Quote from: thebear on February 11, 2008, 05:14:33 PM

    I doubt that the E-8 will have more than one pool C. 


    I certainly concur.  But it could still be a disappointing result for Nazareth (like it was for Oswego), who could end the season with a nice resume.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 11, 2008, 07:31:06 PM
    Quote from: bamm on February 11, 2008, 07:26:02 PM
    Quote from: thebear on February 11, 2008, 05:14:33 PM

    I doubt that the E-8 will have more than one pool C. 


    I certainly concur.  But it could still be a disappointing result for Nazareth (like it was for Oswego), who could end the season with a nice resume.

    It would be real tough for the E8 to get a third team in. I guess the only way I could see it happening is if a team (perhaps Ithaca) would beat Stevens and Naz in consecutive games in the tourny(assuming naz and Stevens are perfect the rest of the regular season)...And even then I see Naz probably being left out. I think Stevens is a real good shape, even if they lose a game in the regular season, and in the tournament, as someone said earlier. Getting a third team in just seems out there this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 12, 2008, 05:22:42 AM
    There is no way 3 teams from the E8 league get in. Stevens and Naz get in unless someone other than these two teams wins the Conference tourney. If that happens then Naz goes to the ECAC's, and Stevens gets an at large bid barring a disaster over their last 3 games. If Naz stumbles in 2 or 3 of their last 5 games, and doesn't win the E8 tournament they won't get in.

    I agree with thebear, Middlebury is real close to Plattsburgh and currently sports a 17-5 record. Their losses have come against #20 Stevens, #19 Ursinus, #12 Plattsburgh St., #1 Amherst and Trinity(Conn) who has received votes in the top 25 poll most of the year. They stand a real good chance of finishing 2nd in the NESCAC conference. Also the NCAA doesn't like to put schools from the same conference together at a 1st round site. If they win their final 2 games against Connecticut College and Wesleyan I think they're in. They have a higher Pool C ranking than any of the E8 schools and just last week had Plattsburgh on the ropes, up 22 in the 2nd half, but couldn't deliver  the knockout blow.  The Massey ratings have them ranked at #14 in the Nation. If PLattsburgh is a 1st round site I think Middlebury is going to be there and that's got to hurt  some N. Y. teams.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Duckman on February 12, 2008, 11:20:49 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 12, 2008, 05:22:42 AM
    They have a higher Pool C ranking than any of the E8 schools...
    I'm confused about this one.  I understand that Middlebury has lost to 5 very solid teams, but how can they be ranked above Stevens?
    Middlebury: 17-5
    Stevens: 19-3
    Stevens also has a double digit win over Middlebury to boot.  Is there something I'm missing?
    (this is not an argument against you magicman, just wondering why Middlebury is higher than Stevens in Pool C)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 12, 2008, 11:34:35 AM
    the d3hoops rankings are a little weird. if you ever go check out the top25, click on some random teams  and you'll see there are plenty of teams ranked with some crappy losses to teams with losing records,   and just barely above .500 records but are ahead of teams with losses to very good teams and no 'bad losses' at all. the d3 rankings are all based on hearsay and who is 'typically' good. d3 isn't d1 ball where west coast teams play east coast teams so you can see how everyone across the nation matches up. it's basically a crap-shoot....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 12, 2008, 06:26:37 PM
    Tonight's games:

    ITHACA over Elmira, 71-46.

    Nazareth tops ALFRED, 76-59.

    Fisher nips RIT, 78-73. Zeinfeld, who historically seems to play well against Fisher, won't be there for this one, obviously. May make the difference.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 12, 2008, 08:23:19 PM
    Ithaca down 9 in the first half.  This would be about 50 miles beyond embarrassing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 12, 2008, 08:46:07 PM
    Ithaca rallies to take a two-point lead, then Elmira closes the half on 7-0 run to lead by five at the half, 37-32. Sound familiar? Exactly what happened in the 2nd half of the Fisher game. Elmira already with more points than they had in the entire last game (36). Stab me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 12, 2008, 09:50:00 PM
    Fisher squeaks one out against R.I.T. tonight. Fisher looks to be tougher and tougher team each time out at the end of games. A big step towards the top 4 spots in the league. It will be tough for Fisher to find its way out.

    Any news on the Ithaca game tonight? It would be a real tough loss for IC if they don't pull it out tonight. Any other scores out there tonight?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 12, 2008, 09:52:06 PM
    Ithaca wins, 82-75. Not a win I'm particularly excited about. No reason the worst scoring offense in the league (by a lot) should score 23 points more than their average on Ithaca's home floor. IC has no chance to make any noise in the E8 Tourney until they dedicate themselves to playing better defense. It's really that simple.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 13, 2008, 12:46:14 AM
    Good gravy.  If they had lost that game I would have found a way to possess Ken Kutler (GB15, you're in NoLA, you must have a line on some good voodoo stuff) and have him fire Mullins before he left the gym.

    Llllllllllet's get rrrrrrrreeeaddddyyyy tooo........sleepwalk through the ECAC's again!!  Wheee.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2008, 01:31:22 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 12, 2008, 11:34:35 AM
    the d3hoops rankings are a little weird. if you ever go check out the top25, click on some random teams  and you'll see there are plenty of teams ranked with some crappy losses to teams with losing records,   and just barely above .500 records but are ahead of teams with losses to very good teams and no 'bad losses' at all. the d3 rankings are all based on hearsay and who is 'typically' good. d3 isn't d1 ball where west coast teams play east coast teams so you can see how everyone across the nation matches up. it's basically a crap-shoot....

    This isn't a D3hoops ranking, however. It's a power ranking developed by a fan. Just setting the record straight.

    It's not at all based on hearsay, e8bballfan. Or if it is, it's really good hearsay because the NCAA Tournament stands up pretty well under our poll -- better than the regional rankings do.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 13, 2008, 03:26:49 PM
    e8 gets two teams in the first regional rankings


    Stevens in at 4
    Naz in at 5


    Sucks to be Stevens.  Going from #1 in the Atlantic Region hands down to having to battle with Rochester, Plattsburgh, and Brockport.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 13, 2008, 11:08:09 PM
    I think the East region is the 3rd strongest region this year behind the west and midwest brackets.  Little bit better than previous years id say. You could also make an argument that it is the best, but not sure how well itd hold up.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on February 14, 2008, 08:48:15 AM
    I agree with Magic--No way the e8 gets more than 2 teams in the NCAA's. If Naz or Stevens stumbles in the tourney probably Naz would be ECAC bound.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 14, 2008, 02:27:45 PM
    Hey, just back from Naples Florida, felt completely out of the action.. I can't see 3 teams getting in as well. If Rochester and Plattsburgh win their Tourney's, I think Stevens is in no matter what happens in E8 tourney. Naz has to get to finals for a shot, and they would hope against Stevens. The picture should be a little clearer by Sunday evening... A Stevens win and Fisher loss clinches first for Stevens. The Ducks seem to be getting more consistant at this point, and Walid Fareed is beginning to play like he did last year, offensively. Naz should win out.... but watch out for the Ithaca game on last day. It may not mean anything however. Fisher does have to win out, to put pressure on Stevens.  ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on February 14, 2008, 02:36:10 PM
    No conference tournament for the UAA/Rochester
    Title: Radio Coverage of Bombers' Road Empire 8 Games
    Post by: WICB Sports on February 14, 2008, 04:24:25 PM
    Radio coverage of the Bombers' weekend Empire 8 roadtrip begins Friday at 5:40 p.m. Eastern time with Bombers Shootaround before the women's contest at Alfred on 92 WICB (www.wicb.org).  At 6 p.m., Matt McLaughlin and David Portney have the call from Alfred.

    At 7:40 p.m., coverage of the Bombers' men's game against Alfred begins with Bombers Shootaround on vicradio.org.  At 8 p.m., Josh Canu and Dan Armata have the call.

    On Saturday, coverage of the Bombers' women's contest at St. John Fisher starts at 1:40 p.m. with Bombers Shootaround on vicradio.org.  Tip-off is at 2 p.m.; Nate March and Mike Hibbard have the call.

    And at 3:40 p.m., Bombers Shootaround begins on 92 WICB (www.wicb.org) before the Bombers' men's game against Fisher.  At 4 p.m., Mike Polak and Mike Hibbard have the call from Pittsford, NY.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 15, 2008, 09:58:51 AM
    Talk about coming down to the wire.  A look at the games in just the next 3 days shows how up in the air things are in the e8.  How about this..the most influential team in the league right now is Utica, and they're on the outside looking in!


    Friday Night
      Utica @ Nazareth


    Saturday Night
      Ithaca @ St. John Fisher


    Sunday Afternoon
      Stevens @ Utica



    My gut feeling is that Utica finds a way to make things interesting at the end between them and Ithaca, which means they split between the 2 big games this weekend and Ithaca loses to Fisher.  Given Stevens troubles on the road, I think Utica loses the Naz game and beats Stevens on Sunday, which makes the top of the e8 a 3 way tie with Stevens/Fisher/Naz all with 3 losses, and Ithaca/Utica with just a game seperating them.  Talk about March Madness coming a week early.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 15, 2008, 10:04:40 AM
    Here's a question...I know we've basically annoited Burton or Corey McAdam for e8 player of the year, but what about Waleed Farid?  He's quietly turned his game around 2nd semester and currently ranks decently in conference only statistics:

    15th in scoring
    4th in rebounding
    2nd in assists
    2nd in steals
    5th in minutes played


    Now I know McAdam ranks ahead of him in all these except rebounding, but Farid is also on the team that at the moment is going to be the e8 regular season champion.  Gotta think that'll help get him some votes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 15, 2008, 11:25:59 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 15, 2008, 09:58:51 AM


    Friday Night
      Utica @ Nazareth


    Saturday Night
      Ithaca @ St. John Fisher


    Sunday Afternoon
      Stevens @ Utica



    My gut feeling is that Utica finds a way to make things interesting at the end between them and Ithaca, which means they split between the 2 big games this weekend and Ithaca loses to Fisher.  Given Stevens troubles on the road, I think Utica loses the Naz game and beats Stevens on Sunday, which makes the top of the e8 a 3 way tie with Stevens/Fisher/Naz all with 3 losses, and Ithaca/Utica with just a game seperating them.  Talk about March Madness coming a week early.

    Under the scenario you just mentioned, with Utica splitting their games this weekend and Ithaca losing at Fisher, Ithaca would still enjoy a two-game lead over Utica. Ithaca, assuming they defeat Alfred tonight (safe assumption, I think) and lose to Fisher tomorrow, will be 9-5 and Utica, again assuming a split, will be 7-7. Utica would then have to win their last two games (vs Fisher, vs Alfred) while Ithaca loses their last two (vs Naz, vs Stevens). Certainly, Ithaca has a more difficult schedule that last weekend. However, Ithaca has dominated Naz in Ithaca and Stevens is a somewhat questionable road team, thus I don't really see IC getting swept at home that last weekend. If they did, and subsequently missed out on the E8 Tourney, that would be a Mets-esque collapse.

    Unless Utica sweeps the weekend, I think we'll pretty much know the composition of the E8 Tourney by Sunday night. If the Pios do sweep, the last weekend could get very interesting.

    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 15, 2008, 10:04:40 AM
    Here's a question...I know we've basically annoited Burton or Corey McAdam for e8 player of the year, but what about Waleed Farid?  He's quietly turned his game around 2nd semester and currently ranks decently in conference only statistics:

    15th in scoring
    4th in rebounding
    2nd in assists
    2nd in steals
    5th in minutes played


    Now I know McAdam ranks ahead of him in all these except rebounding, but Farid is also on the team that at the moment is going to be the e8 regular season champion.  Gotta think that'll help get him some votes.

    Have to take a practical approach to this. Stevens has two guys (Gray and Farid) that have legit POY arguments. That will hurt them both, as they will probably take votes from each other. Farid is obviously a good player. Does the dirty work and fills the stat line. But those players don't usually win the POY award. Burton and McAdam are THE guys on their respective teams, teams that have done well this year. Besides, as you said, McAdam's numbers are better almost across-the-board. Don't think you should punish an individual because his team couldn't hold on in the last minute of two games against Stevens. It's a team game, after all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jdboogs1 on February 15, 2008, 01:20:36 PM
    As being a fan of Division 3 basketball and watching Stevens play for the last several years this team is getting too much attention. Look at their schedule this year. All of their non-conference games were against teams that are below 500 except for Middlebury.In their conference the top 3 teams are strong but the rest are weak, but yet they are ranked in the top 25. No way play somebody first!! Last year they didn't even win their conference and yet they got an at large bid. They also got to play in their own backyard in the NCAA tournament while Manhattanville who won the Skyline Championship  and beat Stevens was shipped off to Baltimore to play Guilford in the first round. Oh by the way Manhattanville has dominated Stevens the past several years. I'm not saying Stevens is'nt a good team I'm saying that are not a great team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 15, 2008, 01:23:54 PM
    GOBOMBERS MAKE A GOOD POINT. Stevens has 5 very good starters, and that will make the numbers for Fareed, and Grey not as noticeable. Passalaqua keeps teams honest from the perimeter, Williams keeps them honest inside, and Greco never seems to fold under pressure, makes pressing Stevens impossible, almost welcomed. The two NAZ games really came down to Passalaqua in game 2 from the free throw line, and Greco in game 1 making an incredible last second reverse layup against NAZ bigs to put it into O.T... They seem to get what they need from anyone of those 5. So the point is the POY will probably come from a less dimensional team. Actually without looking, Burton is really Ithaca, a little bit of Leahy but not much... Not sure what his stats are though, haven't looked in awhile. I think McAdams may get it if NAZ holds on to 2nd. My look at the remainder of the season is this. Stevens and NAZ are at the top and have good overall records.  That's for a reason. As GOBOMBERS said Fareed is coming back to form and they basically did it with him belwo par. They could be scarry as they seem to be picking up speed. NAZ should run the table. If they lose to Ithaca, the Grey or Waleed have a shot. This weekend should set up the last weekend one way or another. ;)  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 15, 2008, 01:37:24 PM
    JDBOGS there is a common flaw with your reasoning. If a team has an easy schedule, and lose then you may have a point. It looks like Stevens has not lost. I believe they are 43-10 since the beginning of last year, not sure. Hey you could be right, BUT it's hard to tell based on beating teams they are supposed to beat. They did go to the sweet 16 last year and supposedly beat good teams, I'm not sure. Hey has anyone seen Stevens play, is the first place team in the E-8 overrated? I've seen them 3 times on Internet. Any NAZ guys out there? ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 15, 2008, 01:41:12 PM
    jd sounds like a disgruntled Manhattanville fan upset his team couldn't get out of the first round last year. 


    But more importantly, no one on this board has ever said Stevens was a great team.  Actually, to the contrary, all of the fair minded and objective people have said they're a good team with serious flaws (awful on road..awful shooting free throws).


    As for getting too much attention...from who?  Nationally they got attention because they were cinderella last year in the tournament, beating #18 WPI and NJAC champ Ramapo before bowing out to Amherst, who won the whole thing.  Other than that, no one gives them any more attention than any other team.  When you're 43-10 in the last 2 years, regardless of who you play, you're going to get some attention.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 15, 2008, 01:44:08 PM
    Fromafar...depends on where you are rating them?


    Are they a top 15 team in the country?  No.

    Are they top 5 in the East region?  Yes.

    Do they have enough talent to make another sweet 16 run?  Yes.

    Could they just as easily lose in the first round?  Absolutely.


    I'd say they've been pretty evenly rated most of the year.  They are a solid basketball team.  Not great, but solid.  Clearly the best team in the e8, but only because they snuck 2 out from against the second best.  (That statement is off records only..in terms of "best" i don't see much difference between Stevens and Naz) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 15, 2008, 02:01:44 PM
    We can always count on Cyclone to put it all into perspective. I couldn't have said it better. Makes sense... Thanks,  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 15, 2008, 02:03:37 PM
    Agreed with Cyclone
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 15, 2008, 04:48:11 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 15, 2008, 01:23:54 PM
    GOBOMBERS MAKE A GOOD POINT. Stevens has 5 very good starters, and that will make the numbers for Fareed, and Grey not as noticeable. Passalaqua keeps teams honest from the perimeter, Williams keeps them honest inside, and Greco never seems to fold under pressure, makes pressing Stevens impossible, almost welcomed. The two NAZ games really came down to Passalaqua in game 2 from the free throw line, and Greco in game 1 making an incredible last second reverse layup against NAZ bigs to put it into O.T... They seem to get what they need from anyone of those 5. So the point is the POY will probably come from a less dimensional team. Actually without looking, Burton is really Ithaca, a little bit of Leahy but not much... Not sure what his stats are though, haven't looked in awhile. I think McAdams may get it if NAZ holds on to 2nd. My look at the remainder of the season is this. Stevens and NAZ are at the top and have good overall records.  That's for a reason. As GOBOMBERS said Fareed is coming back to form and they basically did it with him belwo par. They could be scarry as they seem to be picking up speed. NAZ should run the table. If they lose to Ithaca, the Grey or Waleed have a shot. This weekend should set up the last weekend one way or another. ;)  

    Naz shouldn't run the table. Ithaca dominated them (91-78) in Naz's home gym and Naz has historically been awful in Ithaca. Not one member of Naz's current team has ever won a game there. Naz may win that game, but I doubt it. I don't think they "should" run the table, though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 15, 2008, 09:42:58 PM
    Hartwick beat RIT tonight, if IC wins at Alfred (any update here, AU doesn't do live stats) that ends RIT's postseason hopes.

    Utica 85, Naz 77 on East Avenue...that should end any talk of a three-bid E8.  Pios not dead yet for E8 tournament.  Herring does work with 26 and 9.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 15, 2008, 10:17:22 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 15, 2008, 09:42:58 PM
    Hartwick beat RIT tonight, if IC wins at Alfred (any update here, AU doesn't do live stats) that ends RIT's postseason hopes.

    Utica 85, Naz 77 on East Avenue...that should end any talk of a three-bid E8.  Pios not dead yet for E8 tournament.  Herring does work with 26 and 9.

    UCgrad in 3...2...1....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 16, 2008, 12:07:29 AM
    Naz up to their old tricks. Honestly, I thought this years Naz team was different, but here they are, losing games at the end of the year when the count. Utica is an alright team, but that is a tough one to drop with the #2 seed.
    Fisher got another one tonight, as well as Ithaca, setting the stage for another big E8 game tomorrow. Any one else going?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum03 on February 16, 2008, 09:11:34 AM
    If Fisher and Stevens both end up at 13-3 in the conference (I know there are still games to play but you can begin the conversation) who hosts the E8 tournament. Stevens has a 1 game lead in the loss column. Stevens has to play utica and Ithaca on the road, no easy tasks. Fisher plays Ithaca today and Utica and Hartwick next week. It they end up tied, who hosts? They split the season series 1-1. I'm sure it would depend on who is #3 b/c Stevens swept Naz and Naz swept Fisher. Fisher swept RIT and Stevens split with RIT.  I know there are games to play but hey, it's fun to start the conversation now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on February 16, 2008, 09:20:42 AM
    It has been 4 games since either Carson kid has played for Hartwick.  Anyone know why?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 16, 2008, 09:31:02 AM
    Fisheralum -

    Kind of early to call now just because it depends on who's in that #3 spot and how Stevens does the next two weekends and how Fisher does today.


    *I believe these to be correct, but if wrong, sorry:

    If Naz finishes at #3, Stevens hosts by virtue of their Naz sweep
    If Ithaca finishes at #3, depends what happens between Fisher/Ithaca today and Ithaca/Stevens next week
    If (somehow) Utica finishes at #3, depends what happens with Utica/Stevens tomorrow and Fisher/Utica next week


    Hahaha, basically you're like 2 days ahead on the question.  After this sunday's Stevens/Utica game it'll be a little more clear who has to do what.


    *When's the last time the e8 had seeds #1-#5 all battling each other in the last weekend to get in/host the E8 tournament!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum03 on February 16, 2008, 09:44:34 AM
    I definitely agree cyclone, good analysis.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 16, 2008, 10:02:02 AM
    It's weird...being from NyC and having seen Stevens the most out of all the teams, I naturally am drawn to pulling for them.  However, I'd much rather them have to win the tournament somewhere else.


    I've already seen that they can pull out games in Hoboken, but I've also seen that they are very lackluster on the road.  I think I'd have more confidence in them come NCAA tournament time if they pulled out an e8 title at Fisher or Naz.



    That being said, I also want them to win out...just so that its a shorter commute for me to see the e8 tournament. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 16, 2008, 10:53:43 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 16, 2008, 12:07:29 AM
    Fisher got another one tonight, as well as Ithaca, setting the stage for another big E8 game tomorrow. Any one else going?

    After a short vacation from posting, i will be back in action tonight. I am heading up to the Ithaca game at Fisher, should be a great one.
    Title: Radio Coverage of Ithaca-Fisher Games
    Post by: WICB Sports on February 16, 2008, 11:32:48 AM
    Radio coverage of today's Ithaca-Fisher games starts at 1:40 p.m. with Bombers Shootaround on www.vicradio.org, before tip-off at 2 p.m. of the women's game.

    At 3:40 p.m., coverage of the men's game starts on 92 WICB and www.wicb.org.  Tip-off at 4 p.m.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 16, 2008, 12:25:58 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 16, 2008, 09:31:02 AM
    Fisheralum -

    Kind of early to call now just because it depends on who's in that #3 spot and how Stevens does the next two weekends and how Fisher does today.


    *I believe these to be correct, but if wrong, sorry:

    If Naz finishes at #3, Stevens hosts by virtue of their Naz sweep
    If Ithaca finishes at #3, depends what happens between Fisher/Ithaca today and Ithaca/Stevens next week
    If (somehow) Utica finishes at #3, depends what happens with Utica/Stevens tomorrow and Fisher/Utica next week


    Hahaha, basically you're like 2 days ahead on the question.  After this sunday's Stevens/Utica game it'll be a little more clear who has to do what.


    *When's the last time the e8 had seeds #1-#5 all battling each other in the last weekend to get in/host the E8 tournament!

    Has the tie-breaker changed? I don't know if this is still the tie-breaker, but in years past, after head to head, it was your record vs the worse team in the league, and then the 2nd worse, and so on. In that scenario, if Fisher and Stevens both end up 13-3 in the league, Fisher would host because of Stevens loss to RIT. This just how I understand the rules, but I don't know the inner workings of the league rules.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 16, 2008, 12:36:38 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 16, 2008, 10:53:43 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 16, 2008, 12:07:29 AM
    Fisher got another one tonight, as well as Ithaca, setting the stage for another big E8 game tomorrow. Any one else going?

    After a short vacation from postion, i will be back in action tonight. I am heading up to the Ithaca game at Fisher, should be a great one.

    The Ithaca/Naz game looks bigger and bigger for the E8 tourny every time I look at things. Could you imagine Stevens/Naz 3 in the first round of the E8 tourny? I think that would definatly give Fisher and IC a much better chance of sneaking into the NCAA's with an E8 tourny win.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2008, 03:10:34 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 16, 2008, 12:25:58 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 16, 2008, 09:31:02 AM
    Fisheralum -

    Kind of early to call now just because it depends on who's in that #3 spot and how Stevens does the next two weekends and how Fisher does today.


    *I believe these to be correct, but if wrong, sorry:

    If Naz finishes at #3, Stevens hosts by virtue of their Naz sweep
    If Ithaca finishes at #3, depends what happens between Fisher/Ithaca today and Ithaca/Stevens next week
    If (somehow) Utica finishes at #3, depends what happens with Utica/Stevens tomorrow and Fisher/Utica next week


    Hahaha, basically you're like 2 days ahead on the question.  After this sunday's Stevens/Utica game it'll be a little more clear who has to do what.


    *When's the last time the e8 had seeds #1-#5 all battling each other in the last weekend to get in/host the E8 tournament!

    Has the tie-breaker changed? I don't know if this is still the tie-breaker, but in years past, after head to head, it was your record vs the worse team in the league, and then the 2nd worse, and so on. In that scenario, if Fisher and Stevens both end up 13-3 in the league, Fisher would host because of Stevens loss to RIT. This just how I understand the rules, but I don't know the inner workings of the league rules.

    Yes, the tiebreaker changed this year. The 'breaker now looks at record vs teams from top-to-bottom instead of the reverse. Makes a lot more sense when you think about it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 16, 2008, 03:20:49 PM
    The breaker worked that way last year too.  It was merely oft-repeated misinformation that it was bottom up, it was top-down then too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2008, 04:29:13 PM
    Bombers having their way with Fisher in the early going. IC leads 28-13 with just under 7 minutes left in the first half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2008, 04:34:52 PM
    Refs doing their best to let Fisher back in the game. Fouls on four straight possessions including a phantom 2nd on Bostic, sending Bostic to the bench.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2008, 04:45:53 PM
    Ithaca by 7 at the half, 38-31. I don't like to complain about the refs so I'm just going to withhold my views on the officiating thus far. Both teams shooting terribly from the FT line.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on February 16, 2008, 05:04:00 PM
    So...are the Ithaca guys using clubs or something?  17-5 foul disparity.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2008, 05:04:51 PM
    12-2 start run to start the half. Ithaca leads 50-33.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2008, 05:16:26 PM
    Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on February 16, 2008, 05:04:00 PM
    So...are the Ithaca guys using clubs or something?  17-5 foul disparity.

    Don't even get me going. I'm watching the game so I actually saw the ref do the following as he approached the scorer's table: Foul on 5-5 gray for looking at the guy sideways, two shots! That really happened.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2008, 05:26:54 PM
    Fisher on a big run, cutting a 20 point lead down to a 69-64 advantage before Burton hits a big 3 in transition. Ithaca up 72-64 with 3:45 left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 16, 2008, 05:28:43 PM
    This could settle all the hosting talk.  If Ithaca pulls this out, all Stevens needs is a W tomorrow or next week to lock up home court.  Can't believe I'm saying this but...



    LETS GO BOMBERS!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2008, 05:31:04 PM
    Mullins gets T'd up after a terrible call where the ball clearly goes off Newman and the ball was awarded to Fisher. Then a 3-point play for Fisher. Down to 3. Traditional 3-point play for Burton. IC by 6. Layup by Beigel cuts it to 4.

    Honestly, one of the most poorly officiated games I've ever seen. No matter what the result.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2008, 05:43:57 PM
    Ithaca gets the win, and deservedly so, 84-73. Three-way tie for 2nd place right now between Ithaca, Naz and Fisher. By my calculations, in the head-to-head matchups between  the three teams, Ithaca is 2-1, Naz is 2-1, and Fisher is 1-3.

    With a win tomorrow, Stevens can send the E8 Tourney to Hoboken.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 16, 2008, 08:12:28 PM
    Back from the Fisher Ithaca game, and it was ugly. Fisher played very poorly, and missed several chances to take advantage of some favorable calls. I hate to admit it, but the fouls were a bit one sided. Ithaca deserved to win.

    With the tie breaker changing to the top down, If Stevens beats IC next week, then Fisher is the #2 seed, because of their win over Stevens? If IC beats Stevens, then what does that mean for the three teams with 4 losses (assuming Naz and Fisher win out)? The way I read it, the two losses to Stevens would put Naz in 4th. Anyone know the next tie breaker to determine who is #2 Fisher or IC? Guess it really does not matter much. The field is pretty much set.

    I am actually very excited about the tournament. All 4 teams are capable of winning the thing. I guess the key this year is just getting in, and then hope that you play your best basketball for 2 days. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 16, 2008, 08:18:08 PM
    Huge win by the Bombers. They let Fisher hang around and make some runs, (with the help of some bogus calls) but were always able to hit a big shot. I almost had a heart attack watching that game. Huge second halfs from Bostic and Burton. Bostic showed a lot of emotion taking control early in the second half and then Burton made some clutch shots down the stretch some from 25-30 range. One big key was Ithaca shut down Smalt and held Beigel in check, unlike last weeks game. Bostic dominated the glass and it seemed like he had 25 not 19 rebounds.

    Ithaca got the win despite a very one sided ref crew. I don't want to sound like UC Grad but it was awful. Phantom calls, calling charges that weren't and missing about 30 travels by fisher. There was one play which Beigel got it at the top of the key, traveled, drove to the basket pumped faked, switched pivot foots three times and then scored. Even the fisher fans in front of me were baffled by the no charge call. I also almost had a heart attack on the Mullins Tech. I was on that end closer to that endline and the ball was clearly off Newman, no doubt in anyone's mind. He called it off Ithaca. No excuse for that call.

    All in all a big win for Ithaca at Fisher on their senior night, getting the monkey off their back. It also seemed like Fisher tried to get some fan support from their fellow athletic teams but there was very little. I remember playing at packed houses there with great fans who were in to the game. Today's crowd had one or two hecklers but no one who really cared.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2008, 08:51:12 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 16, 2008, 08:12:28 PM

    With the tie breaker changing to the top down, If Stevens beats IC next week, then Fisher is the #2 seed, because of their win over Stevens? If IC beats Stevens, then what does that mean for the three teams with 4 losses (assuming Naz and Fisher win out)? The way I read it, the two losses to Stevens would put Naz in 4th. Anyone know the next tie breaker to determine who is #2 Fisher or IC? Guess it really does not matter much. The field is pretty much set.


    I think in the event of a three-way tie, I think it goes to the head-to-head records vs the two teams you're tied with. I mean, that's the logical way of doing it. If that's the case, in the event there's a three-way tie, Fisher loses and will be the 4-seed (IC and Naz will be the 2 vs 3 game, who cares who'll be wearing the home uni's b/c it's on a neutral court). Both Naz and IC already have two wins against the other two teams while Fisher only has one and is done playing Ithaca and Naz.

    The most interesting scenario would be this:
    -Stevens loses at Utica and at Ithaca
    -Fisher wins at Utica and at Hartwick
    -Ithaca wins vs Stevens and vs Naz

    That would give Fisher, Stevens and Ithaca four conference losses. Each team would be 2-2 vs the other two teams. I would assume that means we go to the next tiebreaker and Fisher gets bumped off by virtue of their 0-2 record vs Naz, while both Stevens and Ithaca would have 2-0 records vs Naz. Under this scenario, both Ithaca and Stevens would have split with Utica and RIT, and swept the bottom three teams. That would take us to the next tiebreaker which is road conference record, where Ithaca would win by virtue of their 7-2 record, compared to Stevens's 5-4 record under this scenario.

    Only Ithaca and Stevens still have an opportunity to host. There are no conceivable possibilities that would allow Fisher or Naz to host.
    Title: Summary
    Post by: col on February 16, 2008, 09:49:11 PM
    Who had the best mascot this year?

    Who had the best cheerleaders? (Fisher still rolling 35 deep on the baseline?)

    Coach with the craziest antics in the Empire this year?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2008, 06:11:31 PM
    Stevens hasn't clinched anything yet, and Utica keeps alive it's faint hopes for an E8 Tourney berth with a 65-59 win over the Ducks today. Provided Ithaca can beat Naz on Saturday (not a sure thing), the game between Ithaca and Stevens will be for the right to host the E8 Tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 17, 2008, 06:15:10 PM
    craziness, I'll be routing for Ithaca.  Naz plays like Sh**t there and Stevens is awful on the road, thus giving Fisher the best chance to win.  If Ithaca does beat Naz, and it goes down to the wire, i wonder if those teams will get worn out heading into the tournament.  Playing so close to the tournament usually is not a good thing.  I think Fisher having an easier road before the tourny could have an advantage.  However, you can also look at is those tough emotional games between ithaca and stevens will help prepare them.  Not sure which one it is or will be.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 17, 2008, 06:54:07 PM
    If the events of this weekend don't bring UCGrad45 back to the board then we can safely assume he was buried alive in a snowdrift during a previous CNY blizzard.

    Fisher still dancing in a "down year" would make me a sad panda.  Maybe I'm just a hater, form your own opinion.

    F.Dyn is right though, if this tournament gets held anywhere upstate it's a crapshoot.  Stevens and Naz the most talent but lacking focus on the road, Fisher the experience factor, Ithaca the intriguing cocktail of explosiveness and inconsistency (drink it in, drink it in, it always goes down smooth) and if Utica gets in, those guys are running on afterburners right now and could fly all the way to the title...and I just threw up a little in my mouth thinking about that possibility.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on February 17, 2008, 11:21:55 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 17, 2008, 06:54:07 PM
    If the events of this weekend don't bring UCGrad45 back to the board then we can safely assume he was buried alive in a snowdrift during a previous CNY blizzard.

    .  .  .  if Utica gets in, those guys are running on afterburners right now and could fly all the way to the title...and I just threw up a little in my mouth thinking about that possibility.
    I'm a little worried about UCGrad myself.  Haven't seen him at a game lately?  Great team wins for the Pioneers this weekend and a good omen for the future.  10 players (including 3 freshmen) had over 10 minutes in tonights win.  Most of the first half was played without Herring who picked up two early fouls and Utica ended the half down only 2.

    And for the Munch detractors, Dennis gets the game ball tonight!  By the numbers, 10 points, six assists, five steals and five rebounds, but more importantly the timing on several of the steals and rebounds was clutch. 

    It's taken most of the season, but the last two games have shown that UCGrad wasn't entirely crazy in his early assesment of the team.  For two consecutive games, it's nice to see all the new parts working together.   Unfortunately, at this point Utica can only win and hope, but if Ithaca doesn't mind the store, Caz Bombers' "distress" is well founded.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: lileyes on February 18, 2008, 08:42:26 AM
    Relentless...I agree...I was at the UC game yesterday also, and Munch was the difference in the game!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 18, 2008, 08:59:59 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on February 17, 2008, 11:21:55 PMAnd for the Munch detractors

    Maybe the funniest four words ever posted on this board.  Not sure exactly why.

    Good year for E8 sports.  The football playoff race was exciting all the way through selection Sunday and now it sounds like we will have the first real conference tournament in Men's Hoops since the tourney started.  Hopefully the tournament will be at IC so all the games get on free TV.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 18, 2008, 09:12:51 AM
    Good to see you on the boards Jose!
    This E8 season has been a rough and tumble one for everyone.
    UC beating Stevens suprised me- though knowing their track record on the road it shoudnt have.
    I agree- hopefully IC hosts, if for anything ele to give the "local" colleges a bit of a break on travel!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on February 18, 2008, 09:49:05 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 18, 2008, 09:12:51 AM

    I agree- hopefully IC hosts, if for anything ele to give the "local" colleges a bit of a break on travel!
    I know it's selfish, but I'm from NJ.  I'd rather see Utica play in Hoboken.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 18, 2008, 09:55:47 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on February 18, 2008, 09:49:05 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 18, 2008, 09:12:51 AM

    I agree- hopefully IC hosts, if for anything ele to give the "local" colleges a bit of a break on travel!
    I know it's selfish, but I'm from NJ.  I'd rather see Utica play in Hoboken.

    Let's be realistic, Utica still needs A LOT of help to get in the E8 Tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on February 18, 2008, 10:14:01 AM

    [/quote]
    Let's be realistic, Utica still needs A LOT of help to get in the E8 Tourney.
    [/quote]

    Agreed, and Utica has it's own challenges with Fisher and Alfred, but I don't expect Stevens and Naz to be worried about hosting when they show up in Ithaca. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 18, 2008, 10:15:04 AM
    Hoboken?

    Insert your favorite Bugs Bunny reference here!!! ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 18, 2008, 10:29:38 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on February 18, 2008, 08:59:59 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on February 17, 2008, 11:21:55 PMAnd for the Munch detractors

    Maybe the funniest four words ever posted on this board.  Not sure exactly why.

    Good year for E8 sports.  The football playoff race was exciting all the way through selection Sunday and now it sounds like we will have the first real conference tournament in Men's Hoops since the tourney started.  Hopefully the tournament will be at IC so all the games get on free TV.

    Jose, I wonder if ICTV would still offer it for free. If so, that would seem to undercut the whole E8TV thing. It was one thing to put a regular season game on ICTV that not many people would order on E8TV, but one of things that E8TV plugs the most is that every E8 Tourney game will be available on their site. I'd obviously prefer to watch it on ICTV, but I have a feeling that they'll defer on this one.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 18, 2008, 10:42:07 AM
    No idea but, the two E8TV games I have watched are basically re-broadcasts of the local school's production.  ICTV is not going to just turnover their production for sale.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2008, 12:10:55 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on February 18, 2008, 10:42:07 AM
    No idea but, the two E8TV games I have watched are basically re-broadcasts of the local school's production.  ICTV is not going to just turnover their production for sale.

    The conference owns rights to its conference tournament and can give broadcast rights to whomever it wants on its own terms.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 18, 2008, 01:38:13 PM
    I like what they did for the Fisher/Ithaca game this past weekend. They took Fisher's student broadcast, which was televised on their campus TV station only, and used it for the E8TV broadcast. Assuming Ithaca hosts, something similar would be a fantastic set-up for the E8 Tourney. ICTV uses graphics, replays, etc., and the production quality is usually top notch, at least as far as campus TV station broadcasts go. Also, ICTV has the score on the screen the whole game which is important, especially considering IC's scoreboard won't be in the camera's view during the run of play like Fisher's scoreboard is.

    The caveat, of course, would be that the ICTV broadcast can't be offered for free over the internet. Of course, all this talk about the broadcast implicitly assumes that Ithaca will be hosting, so we've probably given them enough negative karma that will lead to Ithaca getting swept this weekend and missing out on the E8 Tourney (yes, that was reverse psychology).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 19, 2008, 07:59:07 AM
    One thing learned this year is nothing is definite. There seems to be an annointing of the Tourney being played at Ithaca. They have two teams that will be in the Tourney and they have to beat both.  Yes they are home and it would appear based on track records, they have an excellent chance, but let's not think for one minute that NAZ and Stevens aren't coming in loaded for bear.  Again, what if Utica beats Fisher, and then the unheard of, Hartwick beats Fisher.....  Alright stop loging in so fast, I know that is not remotely likely, BUT I recall saying in an earlier, post watch out for Hartwick, Elmira or Alfred upsetting the apple cart.... That could be it. I also posted, early on, that the winner of this conference could very well end up with 4 loses...  I have learned one very important thing this year...I CLEARY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BASKETBALL.... There is no form. Many say NAZ can't win at Ithaca... well if they do, that ends that.   Many say Stevens suspect on the road, if they beat Ithaca, does that end that theory because they win the most important road game of the year?  The point is there is nothing definite except my lack of getting any sort of grasp on this league.... Let it fly...;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 19, 2008, 08:50:15 AM
    I don't think anyone is annointing IC as the host.  We were merely expressing our preference for free internet TV.

    I will admit this.  I have not thought the below for one minute.  But then again, I am not sure what it means. +k.

    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 19, 2008, 07:59:07 AMbut let's not think for one minute that NAZ and Stevens aren't coming in loaded for bear.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 19, 2008, 09:36:17 AM
    It means neither NAZ or Stevens are going to sleep walk through these games. Ithaca is not exactly invincible at home..... but there I go again, looking at form....... Any ideas on this weeks regional rankings?????
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 19, 2008, 09:56:28 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 19, 2008, 07:59:07 AM
    One thing learned this year is nothing is definite. There seems to be an annointing of the Tourney being played at Ithaca. They have two teams that will be in the Tourney and they have to beat both.  Yes they are home and it would appear based on track records, they have an excellent chance, but let's not think for one minute that NAZ and Stevens aren't coming in loaded for bear.  Again, what if Utica beats Fisher, and then the unheard of, Hartwick beats Fisher.....  Alright stop loging in so fast, I know that is not remotely likely, BUT I recall saying in an earlier, post watch out for Hartwick, Elmira or Alfred upsetting the apple cart.... That could be it. I also posted, early on, that the winner of this conference could very well end up with 4 loses...  I have learned one very important thing this year...I CLEARY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BASKETBALL.... There is no form. Many say NAZ can't win at Ithaca... well if they do, that ends that.   Many say Stevens suspect on the road, if they beat Ithaca, does that end that theory because they win the most important road game of the year?  The point is there is nothing definite except my lack of getting any sort of grasp on this league.... Let it fly...;)     

    1) No annointing being done at all. As Jose said, we were only talking about potential production possibilities in the event that it is. I know I used the word "if" and "assuming" plenty of times in any post where I talk about the possibility of Ithaca hosting. That would imply that I recognize that some things still need to happen and break Ithaca's way. Ithaca controls their destiny, but so does Stevens. That's a good thing for both teams.

    2) Nobody is saying Naz can't win at Ithaca. Just pointing out the fact that they've struggled there since the inception of the conference and before. If you review my pasts posts on the topic, you'll see I've said only that. Frankly, I don't think Naz will win in Ithaca this season. They've won there once this decade, and that was in '03 when they had guys like Evans, Zablocki, etc., and even then they only got by a mediocre Ithaca team by 3 points. Naz struggles in Ithaca. It's a fact, look it up.

    3) Stevens IS suspect on the road. Look at the struggles they've had. Losses at RIT, Fisher, and Utica. Pulled a rabbit out of their hat at Naz thanks to one of Naz's historic collapses down the stretch. Barely slipped by Elmira on the road. Not the best resume, especially relative to how well they play at home. The've failed most of their prominent road tests. Are you disagreeing with that? Beating Ithaca in Ithaca will be a solid road win, but I don't think that changes the fact that they're still not a great road team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 19, 2008, 10:52:07 AM
    Jose and Bombers, I hear you, and probably used the wrong word in annointing..  Yes Stevens on the road is suspect, and NAZ at Ithaca is suspect as well.......I guess my only point is whenever we try to use past performance something not expected happens... Hey did we really expect this to be decided before the last weekend. So let's look at scenario once again. Stevens wins they are # 1 seed, they lose they are # 2 seed no matter what else happens? If Stevens loses, and NAZ loses, Ithaca # 1 seed, Stevens # 2, Fischer # 3 NAZ # 4? Stevens wins and NAZ loses, Stevens #1, Fisher #2, (assuming Fisher beats Utica) Ithaca # 3 Naz # 4, If Ithaca loses both and Utica beats Fisher, 1-Stevens 2- Naz 3- Fisher 4- Utica.... I'm dizzy again... Please correct if I'm wrong...   Does anyone know the times these games are being played IN TOURNEY FRIDAY AND SAT>  Keep in mind Stevens Woman won conference.. They play those two days as well at home....? ;)         
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 19, 2008, 03:51:01 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 19, 2008, 10:52:07 AM
    Jose and Bombers, I hear you, and probably used the wrong word in annointing..  Yes Stevens on the road is suspect, and NAZ at Ithaca is suspect as well.......I guess my only point is whenever we try to use past performance something not expected happens... Hey did we really expect this to be decided before the last weekend. So let's look at scenario once again. Stevens wins they are # 1 seed, they lose they are # 2 seed no matter what else happens? If Stevens loses, and NAZ loses, Ithaca # 1 seed, Stevens # 2, Fischer # 3 NAZ # 4? Stevens wins and NAZ loses, Stevens #1, Fisher #2, (assuming Fisher beats Utica) Ithaca # 3 Naz # 4, If Ithaca loses both and Utica beats Fisher, 1-Stevens 2- Naz 3- Fisher 4- Utica.... I'm dizzy again... Please correct if I'm wrong...   Does anyone know the times these games are being played IN TOURNEY FRIDAY AND SAT>  Keep in mind Stevens Woman won conference.. They play those two days as well at home....? ;)         

    If both tourneys are in the same place, they'll probably run it like the did a couple years ago when Fisher hosted both. The women's games will be in the afternoon (1pm and 3pm) and the men's games will be that Friday night (7pm and 9pm). The women's final will be on Saturday afternoon/evening, probably at 4pm, followed by the men's final right after.

    If the tourneys are in different places, the semis will be played at 7pm and 9pm (or 6pm and 8pm, whatever) on Friday night, and the finals at 4pm on Saturday. I've been on Central Time the last couple years, so my times might be an hour off, but those are approximately the times that I remember.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 19, 2008, 10:52:07 PM
    On a different note, regular season ends this upcoming weekend, so that means ALL CONFERENCE HONORS will be coming out soon. What are everyones thoughts??

    Rookie of the Year:

    Evan Taylor, Elmira. Averages over 9ppg, conference Rookie of Week 4 times.

    Player of the Year:

    Tough call at this point because the next weekend or two could really decide this, but I think it's Mr. Virgil Gray, Stevens. About 16 ppg, 4.4 boards. Best player on best team in the league....Could be Burton if he has good weekend considering they play Stevens friday night.


    First Team

    Virgil Gray- Stevens
    Sean Burton- IC
    Doug Herring- Utica
    Mark Carson- RIT
    Joe Canori- Nazareth

    Second

    Corey McAdam - Nazareth
    Jan Cocococo - Hartwick
    Ryan McAdam - Nazareth
    Waleed Farid - Stevens
    Jeff Bostic - IC

    Honorable Mention

    Kenny Gethers - RIT
    Justin Beigel - Fisher
    Chris Baltz - Fisher
    Anthony Passalacqua - Stevens
    Tim Williams - Stevens
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 20, 2008, 12:00:44 AM
    Hmmm...I have a slightly different take right now

    POY:  Sean Burton/Corey McAdam
      I think this will come down to what happens this weekend.  If Ithaca sweeps and locks up the #1, Burton will ride this to POY honors.  Otherwise, I think it'll be Corey.  Bein a nyc guy I'd obviously rather see Gray or Farid get it, but the fact that there's a debate about who's more valuable (as mentioned on this board) will probably keep both from winning it.


    1st Team All Conference
    Sean Burton - IC
    Doug Herring - Utica
    Mark Carson - RIT
    Corey McAdam - Nazareth
    Waleed Farid - Stevens


    Pretty much the same.  I flip flop Farid and Gray because Farid is top 5 in 4 categories i believe, while Gray is basically just points per game and that's about it.  Same thing for McAdam over Canori.


    2nd Team All Conference
    Virgil Gray - Stevens
    Joe Canori - Nazareth
    Jeff Bostic - IC
    Jan Coco - Hartwick
    Ryan McAdam - Nazareth

    Pretty standard here. 

    Honorable Mention
    Kenny Gethers - RIT
    Tim Williams - Stevens
    Sean Leahy - IC
    Biegel/Smaltz - Fisher

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 20, 2008, 08:21:49 AM
    I'm going to go alittle different, may cause some qustions ::)

    1st Team
                   
    Burton - IC
    Herring - Utica
    Carson - RIT
    Canori - Naz
    Gray - Stevens

    2nd team

    C. McAdam -  Naz
    R. McAdam - Naz
    Bostic - IC
    Farid - Stevens
    Coco - Hartwick

    Honorable Mention

    Williams - Stevens
    Passalaqua - Stevens
    Baltz - Fisher
    Gethers- RIT
    E. Taylor - EC

    The reason I have Farid and Corey Mc Adam on 2nd team, rather than 1st. is they have an inordinate amount of turnovers which negates some of the other stats, (in my mind).

    Best Mascot....... ;D

    Stevens --- DUCK

    Best Cheerleaders....

    Elmira  ::)

    Best antics by coach...

    Not really sure since I see most games on internet... BUT since I always have to have an opinion, I'll go with Kornicker.... He has to be working those ref's at Fisher... someone does.  ;)   



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: smoothswat on February 20, 2008, 01:58:54 PM
    I'm surprised not everyone on here has Corey McAdam as the POY.  I know I'm far from the most knowledgeable E8 fan, but picking Canori over McAdam for first team, or Gray of Farid for that matter, is basically saying points are more important than playing an all around game.  Points are obviously very important but just look at the stats pergame.

    McAdam - 13 pts, 5.7 boards, 9 assts. and 3 stls
    Canori - 21 pts, 3 boards, 1 asst, 1 stl

    Farid - 12 pts, 7.5 boards, 5.4 assts, 2.7 stls
    Gray - 16 pts, 4 boards, 2 assts, 2 stls

    McAdam accounts for at least 31 pts per game (depending on how many assists lead to 3s) to Canori's 23.  Farid for at least 23 to Gray's 20.  I'm not saying stats speak for everything, but these stats say a lot about McAdam and Farid, who I think both deserve first team honors.  Similar to the sports guy, the MVP should be the guy you would pick first in a pick up game.  If you were a coach, which of these guys are you taking first.  For me, I'd prob say McAdam and then Farid, both players that can do a lot of everything. 
    Title: Radio Coverage of Friday and Saturday's Bombers Games
    Post by: WICB Sports on February 20, 2008, 02:45:21 PM
    Radio coverage of the Bombers' men's basketball games begins Friday at 7:40 p.m. with Bombers Shootaround on 92 WICB (www.wicb.org).  At 8 p.m., Robert Schroeder and Michael Polak have the call from the Ben Light Gymnasium as the Bombers take on Stevens.

    Saturday's men' game against Nazareth will be broadcast on www.vicradio.org, with pregame coverage beginning at 3:40 p.m. and tip-off at 4 p.m.; Michael Polak and Josh Canu have the call.

    Both women's games will be broadcast, with coverage of the Ithaca-Stevens games starting at 5:40 p.m. on www.vicradio.org, and coverage of the Ithaca-Naz game starting at 1:40 p.m. on www.wicb.org.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 21, 2008, 09:28:03 AM
    Smoothswat, I understand your reasoning, BUT as good as McAdams and Fareeds stats are they also turn the ball over much too much... It's not just the offensive stas that make Gray and Canori 1st teamers, (IN MY MIND), it's clutch baskets and go to guys...Hey it is ceratinly debatable, and who knows who gets the NOD, it really doesn't matter though 1st team or 2nd. in my mind they are all very good players and being on 2nd. team doesn't take that away. I think POY comes down to Gray, or Burton.. and maybe McAdam since this weekends games are so important. If Stevens beats Ithaca, and Fisher beats Utica on Friday, The NAZ, Ithaca game Saturday is not that important from an E 8 standings point. It may effect regional rankings however for NAZ if they lose. ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: smoothswat on February 21, 2008, 10:07:34 AM
    I just looked over the stats again, and realized Burton has a pretty high number of assists, although still a high number of turnovers.  While McAdam does have a high number of TOs, he is the only player on the first/second team tier with a 2/1 Asst/TO ratio, Herring is at 1.6/1 and Burton and Farid both around 1.2/1.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like 2/1 is a number rarely achieved throughought the nation, let alone the fact that the other players mentioned for 1st/2nd team are all below 1/1.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 21, 2008, 01:00:52 PM






    Good points smooth swat and maybe that will be the deciding factor. I have nothing against Mc Adams, as I have nothing against any of these players. I just have seen him cough it up late ( hence the late game folding). The tirnovers are not as noticeable when your winning but lose a lead and then they magnify. As I said this probably nit picking he is a very good player and I wish him luck. The season has been great, and it probably has a lot of drama left......... Enjoy ;)   is aeson ah
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 21, 2008, 03:20:00 PM
    If you go back to my post about a month ago you can see that my predictions pretty much have held true to what everyone else is saying. Still, it seems people are neglecting to see the fact since then Bostic has been playing as a first team player and has been putting up great numbers.

    Over the last eleven games Bostic is averaging 15.8 pts and 13.2 boards a game. For the season, he is at 13.6 and 11.4, with 3 blocks a game. He is becoming an emotional leader for the Bombers and has stepped up big in a lot of recent games and is helping the team fight for the regular season championship and host the tourney. 

    Carson on the other hand, is averaging 15.9 and 10.3 to a team that has no shot of being in the empire 8 playoffs and got swept by Hartwick. I think Carson had an unbelievable season and showed more improvement than I've seen from anyone in the Empire8 in my memory, and should be second team all conference, and if there is a most improved player, it is obviously him.

    It comes down to the fact that most of the people who have posted either have it in their head that points mean everything (Bostic leads Carson in almost every category other than points), or that they have just had Carson penciled in all year because of his great start. Despite Carson's great start everyone needs to open their eyes to the fact Jeff Bostic (already a first team all conference player last year) has dominated conference play. I am obviously from Ithaca and possibly bias in some ways, but I am just surprised to see not one person even mention Bostic as a possible first team player or consider it an argument.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 22, 2008, 03:57:32 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 21, 2008, 01:00:52 PM

    Enjoy ;)   is aeson ah

    FROMAFAR
    Is this some kind of hidden message?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 22, 2008, 09:26:18 AM
    Magic man, I'm not that deep....... A simple typo earlier in my post that would not delete on my computer.  The wink means nothing as well, just giving myself something different than the rest.  Enjoy the weekend games......... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 22, 2008, 01:42:31 PM
    Hey gang I need help.....  Is the Fischer Stevens game televised. I don't see it.  What am I doing wrong...? ???
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2008, 03:28:37 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 22, 2008, 01:42:31 PM
    Hey gang I need help.....  Is the Fischer Stevens game televised. I don't see it.  What am I doing wrong...? ???

    First of all, guys, no "c" in Fisher. Just like there's only one "i' in Ithaca. Secondly, Fisher is done with Stevens for the regular season. They do, however, play Utica this evening. The game can be seen on Empire 8 TV. I posted the link below for Empire 8 TV. Games are $2/per. Also, how bad did E8TV drop the ball on tonight's IC/Stevens game? Probably the biggest game of the E8 season, to date, and it's not offered on E8TV. That's too bad. I really wanted to watch it. Guess I have to settle for listening on the radio. Well, at least E8TV was smart enough to make available the huge Naz/Elmira game. I'm speechless.

    www.empire8.tv

    Also, there was nary a mention of RIT's tight game with Alfred, of all teams, on Tuesday night. RIT won, 76-74. Nice nights for Carson (17 and 10) and Gethers (22 and 7).

    PREDICTIONS

    UTICA beats Fisher, 68-62.
    Naz stops ELMIRA, 73-54.
    HARTWICK over Alfred, 71-64.
    ITHACA over Stevens, 78-75 (OT).


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 22, 2008, 03:34:29 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 22, 2008, 03:28:37 PM

    Also, there was nary a mention of RIT's tight game with Alfred, of all teams, on Tuesday night. RIT won, 76-74. Nice nights for Carson (17 and 10) and Gethers (22 and 7).


    I would have mentioned it if was actually tight, but this is a case of the final score being deceiving.  RIT led by 6-9 points for the final few minutes of the game, and had something like a seven point lead with 20 seconds to go.  Alfred hit a three with virtually no time on the clock to make it look like it went down to the wire.  Still, good effort by the Saxons.

    Not sure why yet, but Colin Roy didn't play. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: smoothswat on February 22, 2008, 05:21:21 PM
    Ithaca - Stevens games are available through the ithaca website.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on February 22, 2008, 06:08:51 PM
    Coach Burton will pull the Ithaca crew to the NCAA's. They are peaking!!! Watch out E8--especially you Fisher Dynasty!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Duckman on February 22, 2008, 06:54:20 PM
    I'm gonna say Stevens by 9 or 10 on this one.  I'm feeling lucky.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2008, 08:45:38 PM
    Bombers up by 9 at half, 48-39. Ithaca getting big contributions from Bostic, Leahy and Rogers. Stevens being kept in the game by Farid and Passalacqua's hot shooting. Nice crowd for the Bombers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2008, 09:11:38 PM
    Bombers lead 66-55 with 13 minutes left. Great game, a lot of action.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2008, 09:47:35 PM
    Bombers control their destiny, handling Stevens 93-82. With a win against Naz tomorrow Ithaca will host the E8 Tourney. Stats coming later.

    Also, props to the IC women for knocking off the previously undefeated Stevens women. Nice night for Bombers hoops.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2008, 09:58:38 PM
    Quote from: smoothswat on February 22, 2008, 05:21:21 PM
    Ithaca - Stevens games are available through the ithaca website.

    There's a link on the front page of our site to it as well if you look there. :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2008, 10:07:55 PM
    Yep, I watched it. When I made the post earlier, the story about the game being on ICTV was not yet on the front page of IC's Athletics website. Came up shortly thereafter. No worries.

    Also, ICTV said that the Naz game will also be televised tomorrow.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 22, 2008, 11:15:24 PM
    Naz crushes Elmira, 84-57. Here's what we know about each team:

    ITHACA
    -Earns the #1 seed and right to host E8 Tourney with win vs Naz
    -If IC loses to Naz, Stevens hosts the E8 Tourney and IC earns the #2 seed and would play Naz in the E8 semis

    STEVENS
    -If IC defeats Naz, Stevens is the #2 seed and will play Naz in the E8 semis in Ithaca
    -If Naz knocks off IC, Stevens hosts the E8 Tourney and will play either Fisher or Utica in the E8 semis

    NAZARETH
    -Locked into the #3 seed, regardless of tomorrow's results
    -Will play either Ithaca (if Naz wins tomorrow) or Stevens (if IC wins tomorrow) in the E8 semis

    FISHER
    -Can do no better than the #4 seed, thus will play whomever hosts
    -Clinches E8 Tourney berth with win at Hartwick OR Utica loss vs Alfred
    -Misses out on E8 Tourney with loss at Hartwick AND Utica win vs Alfred

    UTICA
    -Only way to make E8 Tourney is to defeat Alfred AND have Hartwick knock off Fisher
    -Two options: misses E8 Tourney or be the #4 seed

    Wouldn't it be fitting, after the way this season has went, if Utica rose from the dead and made the E8 Tourney because Fisher got upset at Hartwick. The chances of that happening are slim, but who knows. A small part of me wants Utica to make the E8 Tourney if only to avoid the inevitable "you're lucky the hottest team in the E8 isn't in the E8 Tourney" comments from the Utica fans (well, one in particular).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 22, 2008, 11:36:05 PM
    Bombers put together a great game tonight. Battled the whole second half but kept the led up around 9. They always hit a bg shots and with stodd Stevens' attempts to come back. I have never seen an Ithaca team play that well in a big game. Big game form Louis Kail, he killed Tim Williams, beat him down the floor every time and got easy lay-ups and held him in check on the defensive end. Almost everyone played extremely well and a hgue factor was Ithaca's 17 assists and only 3 turnovers. They exectued well, hussled for loose balls and played very well for the big crowd.

    Bostic had a huge game went 5-5 from the field and 5-5 from the line in the first half. Fishised with 24 and 10. He had to have been shorted in the stats, he had at least 6 blocks and more than just 10 rebounds. He played big and i don't think anyone can say Carson for first team now. Carson has played well but Bostic has been dominate since someone called him soft. He didn't play well in the last Stevens game and i felt Ithaca could have won at Stevens without Burton if he had played better. He is a force to be reckoned with right not and he is making moves with his back to the basket, facing up, jump shots and fast breaks.

    Burton played great too, even when he was a little off which shows his maturity and growth this season. If Ithaca wins tomorrow and hosts he has to be considered for POY.

    Tomorrows game is HUGE.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 23, 2008, 01:48:01 AM
    gobombers15

    Nice picks tonight especially the Fisher/Utica game and the Stevens/Ithaca game. That was the same scenario I laid out on the 18th over on the East Region Rankings board in my reply to your tiebreaker info. I'm rooting for your Bombers today against Naz, as I don't want Stevens to back into the top seed. Hopefully because the game means more to the Bombers than to Naz, Ithaca can pull it off.

    You stated that Naz was locked into the 3rd seed regardless of the outcome of today's game. But if Naz win's they finish at 12-4 to Ithaca's 11-5. I think that gets them the #2 seed. ;)  Not that it really matters.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 23, 2008, 07:49:07 AM
    "A small part of me wants Utica to make the E8 Tourney if only to avoid the inevitable "you're lucky the hottest team in the E8 isn't in the E8 Tourney" comments from the Utica fans (well, one in particular)"

    That tells me that you understand which team that would be.

    They aren't just the hottest, they wrecked all the teams ahead of them in their last meeting.

    The sad part is, UC should have clinched last night. Go back to when they were beat by the refs with a little help from naz early on, and Naz is the team needing the win today.

    That said, congratulations to the teams already in.

    Hartwick getting the win today could happen. If I am not mistaken, they played a close game at fisher. Hartwick also has senior night, Coco, no pressure, and fisher is going to be hurting physically from last nights game. They looked like they had no legs left at about the 12 minute mark last night. Collapsing on D and making poor decisions on O. I am a huge Hartwick fan for today. UC also needs to take care of business today.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 23, 2008, 07:58:40 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on February 17, 2008, 11:21:55 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 17, 2008, 06:54:07 PM
    If the events of this weekend don't bring UCGrad45 back to the board then we can safely assume he was buried alive in a snowdrift during a previous CNY blizzard.

    .  .  .  if Utica gets in, those guys are running on afterburners right now and could fly all the way to the title...and I just threw up a little in my mouth thinking about that possibility.
    I'm a little worried about UCGrad myself.  Haven't seen him at a game lately?  Great team wins for the Pioneers this weekend and a good omen for the future.  10 players (including 3 freshmen) had over 10 minutes in tonights win.  Most of the first half was played without Herring who picked up two early fouls and Utica ended the half down only 2.

    And for the Munch detractors, Dennis gets the game ball tonight!  By the numbers, 10 points, six assists, five steals and five rebounds, but more importantly the timing on several of the steals and rebounds was clutch. 

    It's taken most of the season, but the last two games have shown that UCGrad wasn't entirely crazy in his early assesment of the team.  For two consecutive games, it's nice to see all the new parts working together.   Unfortunately, at this point Utica can only win and hope, but if Ithaca doesn't mind the store, Caz Bombers' "distress" is well founded.


    With my Executive Director having major surgery I have been working insane hours. Usually between 9-14 hours a day. When she is out, it means I am running the place.

    Last night was the first time I could see a game (not on empire 8 tv) since Oswego.

    I likely won't be there today. My Daughter turned 1 yesterday, and depending on how my wife feels (she has been sick), we are probably going to do something as a fam for her birthday today.

    Let's go UC! Let's go Hartwick!

    Pioneers deserve to be in. They have played their hearts out and it finally came together.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 23, 2008, 09:28:57 AM
    If Fisher loses to Hartwick today, I will banish myself from any D3 board for the rest of my life.

    Good win by Ithaca, I hope the tourny is hosted there, however, I don't think there going to be Naz. They are home though, so we'll see. 

    Also guys, 'Hottest team in the E8? come on, what does that mena? 2 or 3 straight wins?  I think every other weekend a new team gets it open so to say a team is the hottest maybe be in the moment but once the tourny starts its back to ground zero, and I guarantee the hottest team going into the tourny will fall whoever it might be.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 23, 2008, 09:55:52 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 23, 2008, 09:28:57 AM
    If Fisher loses to Hartwick today, I will banish myself from any D3 board for the rest of my life.

    Good win by Ithaca, I hope the tourny is hosted there, however, I don't think there going to be Naz. They are home though, so we'll see. 

    Also guys, 'Hottest team in the E8? come on, what does that mena? 2 or 3 straight wins?  I think every other weekend a new team gets it open so to say a team is the hottest maybe be in the moment but once the tourny starts its back to ground zero, and I guarantee the hottest team going into the tourny will fall whoever it might be.


    Right now, the teams that end in 'ca are the hot teams. Both are playing extremely well and dominating the other top teams in the conference.

    Let's go UC!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 23, 2008, 10:26:32 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 23, 2008, 09:28:57 AM
    If Fisher loses to Hartwick today, I will banish myself from any D3 board for the rest of my life.


    True if Fisher loses to Hartwick i'll stone cold a six pack and run naked through downtown rochester. With that being said I'm sure Fisher will right the ship and take care of business.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on February 23, 2008, 10:42:11 AM
    UCGrad, good to see you back at the desk.  Agree, Fisher looked tired at the end of the game, especially the bigs.

    Utica can only worry about Alfred today, I'm just happy to see the team play the way UCGrad and I (and most people familiar with the talent) thought they could.  It's taken a while, but if Utica wins and Hartwick makes it happens, Utica can feel good about "backing in".  Three convincing wins in the last week over the teams above them in the league qualifies for a shooters chance.  If it doesn't happen, the entire team, minus Munch returns next year.

    And FisherDyanasty, I'll take the hot team.  Go Giants!

    Go Utica.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on February 23, 2008, 10:45:08 AM
    Quote from: jasper on February 23, 2008, 10:26:32 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 23, 2008, 09:28:57 AM
    If Fisher loses to Hartwick today, I will banish myself from any D3 board for the rest of my life.


    True if Fisher loses to Hartwick i'll stone cold a six pack and run naked through downtown rochester. With that being said I'm sure Fisher will right the ship and take care of business.


    For your sake, and Rochester's, I hope you're right.  Think of the children, man!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on February 23, 2008, 10:51:23 AM
    I asked this question a while ago but I don't think anyone answered.  Maybe no one knows, but the the Carson brothers have not appeared in a Hartwick box score for some time and I was just wondering why?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 23, 2008, 12:05:38 PM
    Quote from: jasper on February 23, 2008, 10:26:32 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 23, 2008, 09:28:57 AM
    If Fisher loses to Hartwick today, I will banish myself from any D3 board for the rest of my life.


    True if Fisher loses to Hartwick i'll stone cold a six pack and run naked through downtown rochester. With that being said I'm sure Fisher will right the ship and take care of business.


    Well I hope they can take care of business. Just when you start to feel good about Fisher, and think that they have things going in the right direction, they drop two games and don't look particulaly impressive in either game. The loss to IC was much closer than it should have been, and the loss to UC was not much better. Fisher had a great opportunity last night, with the team chasing them on the floor. I am not as confident in this team as some other fans, but I am pulling for them. They really should beat Hartwick, with the season on the line, but 2 games ago I thought they would take care of business, only needing one win. Congrats to UC for making the run they needed to make, I just hope Fisher can get it done.

    On another note. I am really pulling for IC against Naz. Living in Cortland, Ithaca is a much better option for the E8 tourny, than Stevens.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 12:10:05 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 23, 2008, 01:48:01 AM

    You stated that Naz was locked into the 3rd seed regardless of the outcome of today's game. But if Naz win's they finish at 12-4 to Ithaca's 11-5. I think that gets them the #2 seed. ;)  Not that it really matters.

    Yeah, I forgot about that. I had initially put that but I went back and edited it for some reason. I guess my brain had turned off at that point. Oh well, the point remains that it would be Ithaca/Naz in the semis if Naz wins today.

    Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on February 23, 2008, 10:51:23 AM
    I asked this question a while ago but I don't think anyone answered.  Maybe no one knows, but the the Carson brothers have not appeared in a Hartwick box score for some time and I was just wondering why?

    I noticed that, too. I had predicted a Hartwick upset against Naz. Unfortunately, that was the first game where the two didn't play. One would have to assume that they both left the team or were dismissed from the team for the same reason. Just seems like too much of a coincidence that both stopped playing at the exact same time and neither has returned.

    UCgrad, IC and UC are certainly the two hottest teams right now. But, as FD said, the hottest team in the conference seems to rotate every week or two. About two weeks ago, it seemed like Fisher and Stevens were the teams to beat. Now, it's Ithaca and Utica. With a win at Ithaca today, I'm sure many people will be high on Naz's chances come next weekend. It really is wide open.

    PREDICTIONS

    UTICA over Alfred, 75-54
    Fisher tops HARTWICK, 69-62
    ITHACA beats Naz, 87-82

    I think the Pioneers run out of time. If the season was two games longer, they'd probably find their way into the E8 Tourney. I don't necessarily think it was only the first Naz game that will cost them a spot. That game was so early that there was plenty of time to rebound and get things straight. I can point to other games, too. For instance, letting that first Naz game affect them and losing at home the next day to RIT. Getting swept by RIT, for that matter (even though IC was a Leahy 3-pointer at the buzzer away from getting swept by the Tigers). Also, I still cannot get over the 41-cent stamp that Utica put on that first Fisher game. That was a mail-in job if I've ever seen one. Seemed like the Pios gave up about 10 mins into that one. Of all the games I watched on E8TV, that was probably the worst effort. Utica still has a chance, but Fisher controls their destiny. I don't think Beigel lets them lose this one.

    BTW, does anyone know why Baltz didn't start last night and only played 13 minutes? That could be a factor today.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 23, 2008, 02:57:05 PM
    "BTW, does anyone know why Baltz didn't start last night and only played 13 minutes? That could be a factor today."


    He started. Had a lot of foul trouble. He didn't help himself when he yelled that he had never fouled out in his life after the second one, then complained after shoving someone in the back to get his third.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 23, 2008, 02:59:24 PM
    Quote from: reelentless on February 23, 2008, 10:42:11 AM
    UCGrad, good to see you back at the desk.  Agree, Fisher looked tired at the end of the game, especially the bigs.

    Utica can only worry about Alfred today, I'm just happy to see the team play the way UCGrad and I (and most people familiar with the talent) thought they could.  It's taken a while, but if Utica wins and Hartwick makes it happens, Utica can feel good about "backing in".  Three convincing wins in the last week over the teams above them in the league qualifies for a shooters chance.  If it doesn't happen, the entire team, minus Munch returns next year.

    And FisherDyanasty, I'll take the hot team.  Go Giants!

    Go Utica.


    It was good to be back. That was the best I have seen UC play since the second round of the NCAA tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 23, 2008, 03:22:46 PM
    Well, today should be a fun day in the Empire 8. Let's go Pioneers!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 04:29:11 PM
    Naz up 32-22 with 9 mins left in the first half. No defense being played by IC, whatsoever. The shots Naz has missed have been bunnies. They could have about 40 right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 04:49:52 PM
    Looks like the E8 Tourney is going to be in Hoboken. Naz whipping Ithaca at the half, 51-34. Still, no defense being played by Ithaca. Too many open shots for Naz. When Naz misses, they get the offensive rebound and put in a layup. Seems like Ithaca thought that Naz would come in and roll over for them. Burton playing the worst I've ever seen him play, with 7 TO's in the first half and a missed front-end of a 1-and-1 that Ithaca really need towards the end of the first half. Gebhardt, Naz's backup PG, seems to be giving him fits. Bostic seems tentative to go down low right now and he has to do that b/c his 17 footer isn't falling today. IC has really dug themselves a hole.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 05:19:41 PM
    Naz's lead trimmed to six, 69-63, with just over ten minutes left. The tide switched once Bostic was but on Corey McAdam. Also, love that the sideline reporter, who listens in on the IC huddle during timeouts, just reported that Louis Kail told the team that "Naz can't win close games." Hey, it's pretty accurate. I think he must read our boards.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 05:35:42 PM
    Naz up 78-77 with a touch under 3 mins left. Bombers just missed a chance to take the lead. Tom Brown's defender flopped hoping to get a charge, there was no call but Brown missed the wide open bunny. Two FT's by Naz give them an 80-77 lead with 2:40 left, timeout on the floor.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 05:42:49 PM
    Leahy does it again!!! Down 82-81 with under a minute to go, Leahy knocks down a contested 3-ptr from the top of the key. Naz misses the ensuing shot, out-of-bounds off Naz, IC ball with 24 secs left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 05:48:47 PM
    Ithaca wins the E8 regular season title and will host the E8 Tourney after their 88-84 win over Naz. I have to collect my thoughts on this one, but I'll post later what I thought about this one. However, the general theme will be "Jim Mullins badly outcoached Mike Daley," and I'm not a huge Mullins guy, but that's a fact.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 23, 2008, 05:58:50 PM
    UC blows out Alfred, but hartwick lost. UC score is 90-54.

    Munch goes out with 15 points, 6 assists and 8 boards.

    Things that suck: UC goes on a tear, has a better record than fisher and spanked them last night but no tournament.

    Munch won't be back next year.


    Things that rule: Everyone else is back next year.

    UC brought it together and finished strong.


    On a side note, I doubt UC will accept an ECAC bid if offered. It is usually NCAA or bust. However, this team playing like this and the circumstances of age and injuries, maybe they would reconsider.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 23, 2008, 06:02:17 PM
    Thank god Fisher and Ithaca won for two reasons....1. I'll be honest i was looking forward to stone colding that six pack but the run through the ROC f that. B. I don't have to drive my happy a$s to frickin NJ next weekend. Should be some great matchups....Rubber match for SJF and Ithaca and Naz gets one more crack at Stevens.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 06:03:21 PM
    Fisher over Hartwick, 70-61. The matchups for next weekend's E8 Tourney in Ithaca (that won't get old all week):

    #4 St. John Fisher @ #1 Ithaca
    #3 Nazareth vs #2 Stevens

    This will save a lot of folks a very long drive to Hoboken. UCgrad, Utica would be smart to take an ECAC bid. You gave the exact reason why: they're a young team and every additional game that they can play together will make them better. I think the ECAC's the last two years have really helped Ithaca. I think Utica would be wise to accept the bid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 23, 2008, 06:12:47 PM
    I don't want to dis anyone, but Corey McAdams for POY  NOOOOOOO!, how many turnovers in the second half, and Mullins did not outcoach Daly, Daly simply did it all himself. How many times is he going to allow these guys to take 3's with a lead  under 3 minutes to go? No time management and this happens time after time. The tourney should be a good one..... Naz Stevens... Ithaca SJF....amazing.   Hey I hv gotten so much wrong this year but check out an earlier POST...  4 losses wins this league... ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 23, 2008, 06:32:41 PM
    Congratulations to the Ithaca Bombers on winning the Empire 8 regular season. And they did it the hard way, beating the other 2 top teams on back to back days.

    gobombers you didn't sound like a man who had faith at halftime! I'm kinda surprised since you're their number 1 drum beater. You were probably using the old "reverse logic"  theory. Good job, it worked. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 06:52:15 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 23, 2008, 06:32:41 PM
    Congratulations to the Ithaca Bombers on winning the Empire 8 regular season. And they did it the hard way, beating the other 2 top teams on back to back days.

    gobombers you didn't sound like a man who had faith at halftime! I'm kinda surprised since you're their number 1 drum beater. You were probably using the old "reverse logic"  theory. Good job, it worked. ;)

    Yes, I like to think of myself as the King of Reverse Psychology. As a NY Giants fan, I kept saying to myself "S___, we gave Brady 35 seconds to work with, we're gonna lose" at the end of the Super Bowl. However, I was very worried at halftime. How can any Bomber fan who watched that first half not be? They looked gawd awful. Completely flat, playing no defense, etc. My only hope was that Ithaca could get it down to six or seven before the 5-minute mark and get Naz doubting themselves b/c they don't win close games. Once that happened, though some work still had to be done, I had a pretty good feeling about the game.

    Anyways, I don't think I'm the #1 drum-beater. That title would and should go to bombersquadron, easily. I have picked Ithaca to lose on several occasions, actually. Overall, I think I'm pretty level-headed when it comes to Ithaca. I'm a fan, obviously, but I don't think I'm blind about it.

    FROMAFAR, here's the biggest difference in the game and why I said that Mullins outcoached Daley: Ithaca put Bostic on Corey McAdam in the 2nd half and Daley, for some unknown reason, did not even play Gebhardt in the 2nd half after Gebhardt had great success against Burton in the 1st half and Burton was running the Naz defense ragged in the 2nd. Naz just looked lost once Bostic started guarding Corey McAdam. A lot of standing around on offense. It was almost like "oh no, Corey can't get to the basket whenever he wants, now what do we do??" That's coaching. C'mon Daley, you have to have something else in the bag when a team finally figures out a way to stop your first option. In Daley's defense, though, he doesn't shoot the ball and Canori was terrible today (3/18, no FT attempts).

    Here are some other quick-hit thoughts:

    -As much as it pains me to say this about a fellow Webster HS alum, Joe Canori is Naz's 3rd best player and does not warrant being on the E8 First Team All-Conference. It hurts even worse b/c the two guys ahead of him are both grads of Webster's biggest rival, Fairport, but the McAdam brothers are excellent. Ryan McAdam was Naz's best player today. Really good performance.

    -Burton may win E8 POY now, but Bostic is the reason they won these last three games against Fisher, Stevens and Naz. He had an off shooting day today but still finished with 11 pts and 20 rebs. Just a beast on the glass. They'll need that next weekend, too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 06:59:13 PM
    Start times announced for next weekend:

    #3 Nazareth vs #2 Stevens, Friday, 6pm

    #4 St. John Fisher @ #1 Ithaca, Friday, 8pm

    Championship Game, Saturday, 3pm
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 23, 2008, 07:05:41 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 06:03:21 PM
    Fisher over Hartwick, 70-61. The matchups for next weekend's E8 Tourney in Ithaca (that won't get old all week):

    #4 St. John Fisher @ #1 Ithaca
    #3 Nazareth vs #2 Stevens

    This will save a lot of folks a very long drive to Hoboken. UCgrad, Utica would be smart to take an ECAC bid. You gave the exact reason why: they're a young team and every additional game that they can play together will make them better. I think the ECAC's the last two years have really helped Ithaca. I think Utica would be wise to accept the bid.

    I feel the same way. Guess time will tell.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 23, 2008, 07:29:16 PM
    Couldn't have asked for much more if your a Fisher Fan. I would rather play ithaca any day than Naz home or away or At Stevens.  I think its so funny how awful naz is at finishing games i dont really get it. And of course Daly got out coached, he is the worst coach ever, he has no rational behind his decisions.  Good year for UC  i they turned it on to late and lost some early close games.  Should be a good post season, its anyteams title this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 23, 2008, 07:52:15 PM
    I think I am the happiest Fisher Fan in the world right now. Not only did Fisher take care of business to get into the tourny, but that tourny will be played in my back yard. I really want to thank IC for beating Stevens and Naz this weekend (no small task). It was really just better for the general public, who wants to make that drive.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 23, 2008, 08:06:56 PM
    Any news on why Ozell Franklin did not play at all today? Not one minute...Just a bit suprising. I think he could have helped today, but I guess Kornaker didn't.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 09:42:49 PM
    Interesting that Ithaca has chosen to play the late game on Friday night. They obviously are doing it to maximize the size of the crowd, but it's a quicker turnaround if they win.

    FD, you seem a little too excited to play Ithaca next week. Did you already forget about last weekend's game in Pittsford where IC was leading by about 15-18 the entire 2nd half and it was only that close b/c at one time the foul disparity was 23-8 (Fisher being the 8, of course)?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 23, 2008, 10:18:49 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 23, 2008, 09:42:49 PM
    Interesting that Ithaca has chosen to play the late game on Friday night. They obviously are doing it to maximize the size of the crowd, but it's a quicker turnaround if they win.

    FD, you seem a little too excited to play Ithaca next week. Did you already forget about last weekend's game in Pittsford where IC was leading by about 15-18 the entire 2nd half and it was only that close b/c at one time the foul disparity was 23-8 (Fisher being the 8, of course)?

    I would imagine he is excited because Fisher historically plays well at IC, and, lets not forget, that Fisher was able to control most of the game when the two teams played in Ithaca as well. As a fisher fan, from what I have seen this year, I would rather have them play Ithaca, in Ithaca, then play any team in New Jersey, or Naz (fisher0-2 against them this year).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 23, 2008, 10:39:33 PM
    Huge win, Ithaca shows the growth again and overcomes a awful first half. Huge games from every interior Bomber. Louis Kail, Tom Brown and Bostic with 20 boards. Sean Leahy turning into Robert Horry with all the game winning shots he is racking up.

    SEE EVERYONE IN ITHACA NEXT WEEKEND
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 23, 2008, 11:41:24 PM
    what sjfcards said
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 24, 2008, 02:22:13 AM
    Does anyone have the Liberty League, and the SUNYAC tournament pairings yet? I don't know how those tourny's work, but I would like to take in some quality D3 basketball in the coming weeks.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 24, 2008, 03:20:01 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 24, 2008, 02:22:13 AM
    Does anyone have the Liberty League, and the SUNYAC tournament pairings yet? I don't know how those tourny's work, but I would like to take in some quality D3 basketball in the coming weeks.

    sjfcards,

    Here's the SUNYAC pairings for Tuesday Feb. 26th

    #8 Fredonia at #1 Plattsburgh at 7:00 PM
    #7 Oneonta at #2 Brockport     at 8:00 PM
    #6 Potsdam at #3 Oswego       at 7:00 PM
    #5 Geneseo at #4 Cortland       TBA

    Semi-finals and finals at highest remaining seed. If the form holds up for the 1st round match-ups, Plattsburgh will host the final four on Fri.  Feb. 29th & Sat. March 1st, times TBA
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 24, 2008, 03:38:05 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 24, 2008, 02:22:13 AM
    Does anyone have the Liberty League, and the SUNYAC tournament pairings yet? I don't know how those tourny's work, but I would like to take in some quality D3 basketball in the coming weeks.

    And here's the Liberty League pairings to be played at St Lawrence on Fri. Feb. 29th and Sat. March 1st.

    #3 Vassar vs. #2 Hamilton  Fri. 6:00 PM
    #4 Clarkson vs #1 St. Lawrence  Fri. 8:00

    Semi-final winners on Sat at 3:00 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 24, 2008, 03:54:08 AM
    quote by gobombers15
    Anyways, I don't think I'm the #1 drum-beater. That title would and should go to bombersquadron, easily. I have picked Ithaca to lose on several occasions, actually. Overall, I think I'm pretty level-headed when it comes to Ithaca. I'm a fan, obviously, but I don't think I'm blind about it.

    OK you're their #2 fan. But you're right you are pretty level headed and you're not blind about it. Plus k.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on February 24, 2008, 10:15:02 AM
    The scooterman likes the Bombers chances---Go Coach Burton and the Bombers--Keep rolling!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 24, 2008, 11:13:17 AM
    Quote from: scooterman on February 24, 2008, 10:15:02 AM
    The scooterman likes the Bombers chances---Go Coach Burton and the Bombers--Keep rolling!!!!

    I think every fan thinks that their team has a chance, becauase every team appears to have a chance at winning this tournament. It really would not be hard to convince people of any of the teams being the favorite.

    Ithaca has played well down the stretch, and is at home...
    Stevens has seemed to be the best team in the league all year....
    Naz has the shooters and it will be real tough for Stevens to beat them 3 times in a year...
    Fisher is kind of the darkhorse. When they play well, they can beat any team in the league(and have)...

    I don't know how everyone else sees it, but one Fisher fan's oppinion:

    Stevens beats Naz by 5 or less.
    Fisher beats IC late by 8 or less. (maybe burton can score 50 this time)

    Stevens beats Fisher in the Championship by 10

    It may be a little ambitious for fisher to even win a game, but I am a fan, and I think they can beat IC.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 24, 2008, 11:29:53 AM
    My predictions for the e8 Tourny:

    Naz over Stevens by 3
    Fisher over Ithaca by 4

    Naz over Fisher by 7
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2008, 11:59:50 AM
    I love it. Everyone, keep picking against Ithaca.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on February 24, 2008, 12:12:41 PM
    I didnt
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 24, 2008, 02:32:35 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 24, 2008, 11:59:50 AM
    I love it. Everyone, keep picking against Ithaca.

    Well 2 Fisher Fans picked against them...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on February 24, 2008, 03:36:17 PM
    I'll bet on Ithaca in the final and to win big over Stevens.  I've seen all but Ithaca play in the last week and even though it's a 3rd game in one season, Stevens should overpower Naz.  The way they're currently playing, Ithaca has too many shooters and too much athleticism for Stevens.

    Good luck to all!  In this one, for sure, everybody's got a chance.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2008, 03:47:33 PM
    If Fisher/Ithaca win the E8 Tourney, does Stevens or Naz get an at-large bid? Does it depend on which makes the final? Interesting questions.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 24, 2008, 04:46:55 PM
    The season is essentially over (RIT v. Elmira game going on right now), so I figured that I'd be the first (since the conference season has concluded, anyways) to take a stab at the post-season awards. Here goes:

    POY: Sean Burton (IC)
    ROY: Evan Taylor (EC)
    COY: Jim Mullins (IC)

    I could see Corey McAdam taking POY, though. I think both are deserving. The question becomes whether Burton gets the boost from being on the regular season conference champs. We'll see. Taylor easily wins ROY, winning Rookie of the Week four times during the season. The COY usually goes to one of the top two teams and IC's strong finish compared to Stevens's poor finish gives it to Mullins.

    FIRST TEAM

    Bostic (IC)
    Farid (SIT)
    C. McAdam (Naz)
    Herring (UC)
    Burton (IC)

    This was obviously the toughest team to predict. Honestly, the first team could easily be four guards and one forward. If that's the case, one could easily sub Virgil Gray for Farid. However, I think the E8 tries to make it as much like a real basketball team and puts at least two forwards on the team. I have Gray ranked as the #4 guard, so he takes the bump. Could I easily see him on the first team and Farid on the second? Of course. I just think C. McAdam, Burton and Herring have similar or better numbers and are all more important to their teams. Also, looking at Ryan McAdam's numbers and Kenny Gethers's numbers, they probably warrant first team consideration, too. But this league is too guard-oriented. However, I think both would be taken in the top five or seven if we were playing a pick-up game and were picking teams.

    SECOND TEAM

    Carson (RIT)
    R. McAdam (Naz)
    Gethers (RIT)
    Gray (SIT)
    Cocozziello (Wick)
    Canori (Naz)

    Carson gets the bump with the way Bostic finished and that fact that IC won the conference and RIT finished sixth. Ryan McAdam, Gethers and Gray, all who barely miss out on the first team, are easy picks for this team. Cocozziello and Canori would be first teamers if we only looked at scoring, but they don't do much else, so they show up here.

    HONORABLE MENTION

    T. Williams (SIT)
    Beigel (SJF)
    Leahy (IC)
    Baltz (SJF)
    Passalacqua (SIT)

    Of this group, I can only see Leahy or possibly Baltz (reputation more than anything else) being moved up to second team.

    I'm sure this will draw the ire of somebody. Stevens fans will let me have it for putting Gray on the 2nd team, Fisher guys will probably let me have it for having none of their players on the top two teams (even though none of them deserve it), etc. That's fine, I can take it. Sorry for making this so long. Really no way that I can make it shorter if I want to explain myself.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 24, 2008, 04:56:26 PM
    gobombers, you said the other day you would collect your thoughts and then make a post about the IC-Naz game from the other day, I'm looking forward to reading that and seeing what you have to say so get that post up!

    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 24, 2008, 03:47:33 PM
    If Fisher/Ithaca win the E8 Tourney, does Stevens or Naz get an at-large bid? Does it depend on which makes the final? Interesting questions.


    very interesting...say Naz were to beat Stevens, but lose to Fisher/IC in the conference championship game, then who (if anyone) gets the at-large?? hmmm....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 24, 2008, 05:34:47 PM
    I think Stevens can get an at large bid with one win in the tournament. It could be intersting tho, with those late losses, and not winning the league, may hurt them for that bid.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 24, 2008, 06:30:31 PM
    GoBombers -
      We have the exact same predictions for conference at this point.  After the last week Bostic and Carson flipped.  Only switched I had is that I think Gethers will be honorable mention, and even tho I'm the nyc guy in the group, I don't think Passalacqua has had the year to merit honorable mention. 


    As for Stevens, at large chances...slim to done.  Right now at best they are going to be 5th in the East.  Here is the only scenario in which Stevens will get an at large:


    1)  Plattsburgh MUST hold serve and win the SUNYAC.
    Reason:  Both of these teams are ranked ahead of Stevens in the region, and thus one of them has to get an automatic qualifier or else they'll both be in that Pool C category and you aren't getting 4 Pool C's from the East Region.

    2)  Brockport has to lose BEFORE the championship game. 
    Reason:  A strong showing by Brockport in the SUNYAC will look better than what Stevens does in the e8 tourney (barring winning it obviously) and will keep Bport ranked ahead of Stevens.

    3)  Stevens MUST reach the finals.
    Reason:  3 game skid to end your season (2 regular season and 1 tourney) puts you directly in the ECAC.


    With Plattsburgh an AQ and Rochester coming off the line relatively quick in the selection process (one of the top 8 pool C bids will be Rochester)..that leaves Stevens at #1 or #2 in the East Region for 9 rounds of Pool C selection.  At that point I'd feel comfortable about them getting in. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on February 24, 2008, 07:55:26 PM
    I don't think Fisher will win this year...but you have to take into account that Fisher and Stevens both have the experiance of last year...So while I think Ithaca will probably win...You have to take into account the fact that Fisher has won for so long....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 24, 2008, 10:03:53 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 23, 2008, 05:58:50 PMOn a side note, I doubt UC will accept an ECAC bid if offered. It is usually NCAA or bust.

    Quote of the century. 

    A friend of mine who lurks on these boards (and is also a UC graduate) emailed this to me with the attached comment:

    "I can honestly say that no one has EVER used the phrase "NCAA or bust" when describing Utica sports."

    Maybe the slogan would be better like this: Utica Athletics NCAA or Bust.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on February 24, 2008, 10:31:56 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on February 24, 2008, 10:03:53 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 23, 2008, 05:58:50 PMOn a side note, I doubt UC will accept an ECAC bid if offered. It is usually NCAA or bust.

    Quote of the century. 

    A friend of mine who lurks on these boards (and is also a UC graduate) emailed this to me with the attached comment:

    "I can honestly say that no one has EVER used the phrase "NCAA or bust" when describing Utica sports."

    Maybe the slogan would be better like this: Utica Athletics NCAA or Bust.

    The phase isn't important; and I may have entirely wrong information, but I was told that eligibility for the ECAC requires practice to start a week later than otherwise permitted?  (the Utica womens team starts practice a week later than the men) In which case the decision not to go to the ECAC tournament was made before the season?  Is this true?

    The same choice was made last year; Utica's season ended at the E-8 final.  Has you're lurking friend talked to Coach Goodemote lately?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 25, 2008, 09:26:58 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on February 24, 2008, 10:31:56 PMThe phase isn't important; and I may have entirely wrong information, but I was told that eligibility for the ECAC requires practice to start a week later than otherwise permitted?  (the Utica womens team starts practice a week later than the men) In which case the decision not to go to the ECAC tournament was made before the season?  Is this true?

    This is correct. However, that doesn't make "NCAA or Bust" any less funny for a program with all of 3 NCAA appearances in men's sports (in all athletic programs)(1 in MBB, 2 in XC).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on February 25, 2008, 11:02:18 AM
    Jose let's remember who we are dealing with....this is utica....they hire old men to play basketball... they can't be reasonable at all...now Fisher on the other hand should win the NCAA's this year hands down... I say they win the championship game by 30+
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 25, 2008, 01:26:38 PM
    This E8 tournament bracket worked out great for everybody, didn't it?  Fisher fans are perfectly happy with their matchup (beat IC at the Bulb already) and so are us Bomber fans (SJF backing in, Ithaca thumped them in Pittsford).  If you show up for the early game you get to watch Stevens and Naz probably play a third epic high-scoring battle that leaves the winner drained when facing the IC-Fisher surivor for the title.  And of course we all get to point and laugh at Utica for having their late hot streak come to mean jack squat.  Win-win all the way around.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mid-range j on February 25, 2008, 03:24:38 PM
    Don't know too much about the E8 or the teams in it but just wanted to stop by and visit and see your opinions on the conference tourney.  From what I have heard it could be anyones game...Ithaca really went on a run the end of the season and its even better for them that they get to host the tournament.  I'm personally rooting for them! 

    Is Stevens still a top 25 team? I don't even know if they are top 50.  Hey I could be wrong though, but with a strength of schedule ranking of 326th in all of division 3? OUCH!  :-\ .. Looks like Loeffler will have to get back on d3hoops.com radio for selection sunday on the live broadcasting to wiggle his way back in the tourney, for some more words of encouragment to help his team get in, (thats if they don't win the conference tournament). 

    I wouldnt count out St John Fisher either.  This could be the season of the underdogs!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 25, 2008, 03:25:47 PM
    caz that was funny  +k for you.
    just hearing the collective thud in the utica area was funny as all hell.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 25, 2008, 03:28:40 PM
    after reading the article in the local paper---od-----i was a bit taken by suprise when i saw the box score- and then said crap does this mean that if Fisher lost to Wick the following night--UC would back in--------oops not to be
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 25, 2008, 04:09:39 PM
    I dk if i see Fisher as an underdog, they were predicted to win the league by the coaches at the beginning of the year.  I don't really think anyone in this tourny is an underdog.  However, the home team should get the edge, but I think the worst out of the 3 teams is the home team so it balances it out. Should be a great tournament, no offense bomber fans, im not attacking ithaca, I felt that way all season, until they prove me otherwise by taking care of business in the tournament I cant give them my full amount of respect yet. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 25, 2008, 06:19:00 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 25, 2008, 04:09:39 PM
    I dk if i see Fisher as an underdog, they were predicted to win the league by the coaches at the beginning of the year.  I don't really think anyone in this tourny is an underdog.  However, the home team should get the edge, but I think the worst out of the 3 teams is the home team so it balances it out. Should be a great tournament, no offense bomber fans, im not attacking ithaca, I felt that way all season, until they prove me otherwise by taking care of business in the tournament I cant give them my full amount of respect yet. 

    Wow, where do I start?

    1) "I dk if i see Fisher as an underdog, they were predicted to win the league by the coaches at the beginning of the year."

    Today, that fact and .75 cents will buy you a bag of chips. What do preseason projections mean at this point? I'll tell you what they mean: NOT A DAMN THING. That's a worthless statement.

    2) "I don't really think anyone in this tourny is an underdog."

    Fair enough, I can deal with that. I think it has been well-established that each team has its inconsistencies and can have a good/bad stretch.

    3) "However, the home team should get the edge, but I think the worst out of the 3 teams is the home team so it balances it out."

    INTERPRETATION: Usually, the home team has an advantage, but I think Ithaca is the worst team in this tournament so that doesn't matter.

    Well, the "worst" team of the four won the regular season conference title, earned the right to host, and finished the season playing well. I like your definition of "worst." Now, if you're saying IC is the worst home team of the four, I think that's equally idiotic. Ithaca and Fisher have the same exact home record (7-2). Also, Naz has the worst home record of the four (6-3). Now, if you said "Stevens is the best home team so I'm glad the tournament isn't there," that'd be one thing, but what you said is a far cry from that.

    4) "Should be a great tournament, no offense bomber fans, im not attacking ithaca, I felt that way all season, until they prove me otherwise by taking care of business in the tournament I cant give them my full amount of respect yet."

    This reminds me of that part in "Talladega Nights" where Ricky Bobby prefaces things he says with "with all due respect" and then thinks he can say whatever he wants after he says "with all due respect," thus completely negating the effect of the "with all due respect." That's what I get from the "no offense bomber fans" part of that statement. Also, I find it interesting that you give more stock to a 2-game tournament than to a 16-game conference season. I mean, that's essentially what you're saying as you effectively say "Ithaca doesn't get much respect for their season unless they win the E8 Tourney." That's just dumb. You're probably that guy who gets into the Fantasy Football Playoffs as the #6 seed by virtue of your 7-7 regular season record, pulls a couple of upsets and beats the #1 seed (who finished 12-2) in Week 17 because Tony Romo and Brian Westbrook were used sparingly while your team was spearheaded by career days from Maurice Morris and Chris Redman, then talks junk all offseason that you had the best fantasy football team. I hate that guy. Don't be him.

    (Not sure that's the best analogy, but I liked it and it made me feel good.)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 25, 2008, 06:52:48 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 25, 2008, 04:09:39 PM
    I dk if i see Fisher as an underdog, they were predicted to win the league by the coaches at the beginning of the year.  I don't really think anyone in this tourny is an underdog.  However, the home team should get the edge, but I think the worst out of the 3 teams is the home team so it balances it out. Should be a great tournament, no offense bomber fans, im not attacking ithaca, I felt that way all season, until they prove me otherwise by taking care of business in the tournament I cant give them my full amount of respect yet. 

    GB15 -- I really wanted to make a comment on this about an hour ago... but didn't want to steal your thunder.  I knew you would have some killer 500-word post coming.

    I would really like to put together a "Best of... GB15 analogies" but I'm just too lazy.  You've had some really funny and ridiculous ones over the last few years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 25, 2008, 07:38:04 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 25, 2008, 01:26:38 PM
    This E8 tournament bracket worked out great for everybody, didn't it?  Fisher fans are perfectly happy with their matchup (beat IC at the Bulb already) and so are us Bomber fans (SJF backing in, Ithaca thumped them in Pittsford).  If you show up for the early game you get to watch Stevens and Naz probably play a third epic high-scoring battle that leaves the winner drained when facing the IC-Fisher surivor for the title.  And of course we all get to point and laugh at Utica for having their late hot streak come to mean jack squat.  Win-win all the way around.

    Well that is just the best way of looking at it. Everyone has some stuff to be excited about, and everyone has some stuff to worry about. And we all are happy that UC is not in the tourny. It is great.
    I see that Fisher fans and IC fans both seem to think their team is going to win the game friday because of what they did against the other in the other teams gym. I think it is going to be a great game. Two pretty evenly matched teams (take it easy IC fans, yes you stomped Fisher in Pittsford, but it was not exactly Fishers best effort/performance). When Fisher plays well they have beaten the best teams in the conference, and they can do it again. Ithaca finished playing about as well as any team in the conference can play, and they are at home. My honest thought is that it will come down to which coach can get their team to handle the excitement and pressure. Call me nuts, but I am going to go with Kornaker.

    I only have two wishes for this weekend:
    1) That Fisher/IC turns out to be as good a game as I think it will be.
    2) that the girl from IC that sat behind me in Pittsford is not allowed in the gym, because she was worst people I have ever encountered.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 25, 2008, 07:47:05 PM
    I was just checking things out on the internet, and I see that coach Goodemote from UC, has resigned from his position. The article says he wants to concentrate on his family. Tough loss for Utica, he was a real quality coach.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 25, 2008, 08:21:11 PM
    Obviously you have taken offense.  It is my "Opinion" that Ithaca is the worst team out of the 4. Yes Ithaca deserves credit for winning the league, but have they have a good enough season to earn an at large? No.  Therefore, if they lose in the tourny and dont make the NCAA (the main purpose of playing college basketball) then sucks to be an ithaca player.  Would you rather win the league regular season or hold the rights to the League championship and play in the NCAA's? I think its great what they've accomplished so far they just need to finish it off like the best team in the league should do (if they are the best).


    Lastly, me having an opinion that ithaca is the worst isnt a knock, its not like im saying ithaca sucks, they dont belong in the tournament just think they are the weakest of the 4.  Next year will be there year to shine in my opinion and have a chance to do well in the NCAA tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on February 25, 2008, 08:47:51 PM


    dynasty.... chill.... Ithaca sucks monkey balls we all know it... they paid off the refs and the e8 comish in order to get home court...I say fisher wins by 45 and then coach daily pulls a Friday night Lights and runs up and trys to block a dunk after he gets frustrated







    just kidding lighten up...it's basketball not rocket science (think lil' bow wow singing They're playing basketball
    We love that basketball )


    No offense was meant to gb15 during the making of this post

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on February 25, 2008, 09:15:28 PM
    ok is the picture funny to anyone else

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nazathletics.com%2Fimages%2Fmbball%2F2007%2F11%2F27%2Frmcadam1_web.jpg&hash=67388214d2d2929ce92abd0976aced8f7066799f)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 25, 2008, 09:50:44 PM
    hahaha
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: smoothswat on February 25, 2008, 10:02:35 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 25, 2008, 08:21:11 PM
    Therefore, if they lose in the tourny and dont make the NCAA (the main purpose of playing college basketball) then sucks to be an ithaca player. 

    Since the only reason to play college basketball is to make the NCAAs, I guess the three teams that don't win the conf tourney and the other 300 schools that don't make it really shouldn't have even played this season.  I guess they just wasted 5 months of their lives. 

    I hope I'm not the only one who disagrees with this ludicrous statement, with all due respect of course.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 26, 2008, 09:26:23 AM
    Never said anything about not playing the season or if they dont get in the NCAAs to be a waste of time, just said the main PURPOSE and every teams goal is to get to the NCAA's.  Im sure every team in the conf.  tournament will be dissapointed if they lose and dont get in the NCAA tourny. 



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 26, 2008, 10:00:08 AM
    Mid Range J sounds like a Manhattanville guy. They still can't let last year go...Talk about beating a dead horse.  Let it go, take care of business. I'm not a Stevens guy BUT you have some AX to grind.

    Now let me speak with the brain-trust of the E-8.  I'm getting a kick out of the banter between Fisher and Ithaca, that's what this league has been all about all year. I believe these are the most knowledgeable D 3 fans out there. As I have said over and over again (talk about beating a dead horse), one thing in the E 8 is certain this year... that is.. that nothing is certain. I think we are going to be treated to 3 very good entertaining games. I only ask for one thing...PLEASE MR. REFEREE'S DON'T DECIDE THE GAMES. LET THE PLAYERS DECIDE. I don't know why BUT the ref's at the Fisher games are truly the worst. No dis to Fisher, more power to you and it's not your doing, but that's one thing most can agree on... Have fun at the games... I will probably be one of the oldest guys there if anyone cares.  ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 26, 2008, 10:03:41 AM
    Well, we've predicted games.  And we've predicted seeds.  And we've predicted all conference.  But there's one thing we haven't done......



    The Post-Its!!!


    Did this on another board before, always good around conference tourney time to kill some time.  Basically it's the awards for the posters on the e8 boards.  Fill out your ballots, it's always a good time:


    The "My Alma Mater spit on your Mother" Award:
      Given to that Poster who swears that his school is...well...the only school that matters.

    The "These shrooms aren't meant for pizza!" Award:
      Most outlandish poster of the year.  Must have made at least 3 posts that anyone not high at the time of reading had to read twice to understand how truly crazy it was.

    The "Duck Farmouth" Award (switch the D and F obviously):
       Given to the two posters with the best on board rivalry for the year

    The "I went to college, and sometimes attended class" Award:
       Poster who tries to make the most sense, even if he fails to do so.  Basically the Tim Duncan of the board.

    The "I shoot more than Kobe & Bron Combined" Award:
       Best volume poster of the year.

    The "Madden GM and Coach Mode for me!" Award:
       Guy who swears he can run his teams program better than anyone in charge.  Or at least talks occasionally about beating up a coach, player, and/or administrator.

    and lastly...

    The "I could do board posting for a living" Award:
      This is the MVP of the year.  Funniest, most knowledgeable, most crazy...whatever. Just the guy who when you checked the boards and saw he posted, you were like, "NICE!!!!!"



    that's all i got, hope you enjoy...I'll post my answers a little later.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on February 26, 2008, 10:05:28 AM
    Every b-ball team in the country starts the season with hopes of playing in the NCAA's at whatever level they play-- D1,2 or 3!!No a waste but a challenge!!!They are competitors
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2008, 12:06:18 PM
    all this banter and nobody is talking about UC's coach stepping down?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 26, 2008, 12:14:22 PM
    It's UC...people are worried about the teams that were good enough to make the conference tourney!!!



    *Just kidding just kidding...easy shot, had to take the layup.  No offense UC fans.  Go Dennis Munch!
    Title: Radio Coverage of Empire 8 Tournaments
    Post by: WICB Sports on February 26, 2008, 01:37:56 PM
    Both the men's and women's Empire 8 tournaments will be broadcast in entirety by WICB and VIC Radio.

    The schedule for the men's tournament:

    Men's semifinal, Stevens vs. Nazareth, 6 p.m. Friday on 92 WICB and wicb.org (pregame at 5:40)
    Men's semifinal, Ithaca vs. St. John Fisher, 8 p.m. Friday on 92 WICB and wicb.org (pregame at 7:40)
    Men's final, Saturday 3 p.m. on 92 WICB and wicb.org (pregame at 2:40)

    The schedule for the women's tournament:

    Women's semifinal, Stevens vs. St. John Fisher, 6 p.m. Friday on vicradio.org (pregame at 5:40)
    Women's semifinal, Ithaca vs Utica, 8 p.m. Friday on vicradio.org (pregame at 7:40)
    Women's final, Saturday 3:30 p.m. on vicradio.org (pregame at 3:10)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 26, 2008, 02:08:19 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2008, 12:06:18 PM
    all this banter and nobody is talking about UC's coach stepping down?

    Goodemote leaving UC is a huge blow. Losing a great Coach, recruiter, ambassador for the school. Now UC has to struggle down the road with first finding a new coach, then learning a new system. And the coach has to deal with gaining respect from players, seeing how players will react to him, how he will recruit, and how he will have very little respect from officials, something which Goodemote had plenty off.

    Best of luck to Coach Goodemote and whatever he plans on doing!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 26, 2008, 02:34:23 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2008, 12:06:18 PM
    all this banter and nobody is talking about UC's coach stepping down?

    I got to believe he has another position lined up but can't announce it because that team is still playing.  I'd be shocked if a young guy like that just totally leaves coaching.  Definitely a rising star in upstate.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on February 26, 2008, 02:44:19 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2008, 12:06:18 PM
    all this banter and nobody is talking about UC's coach stepping down?
    Still in shock!  Frankly, Goode is a great coach and great coaches get and pursue better opportunities.   In this case the better opportunity appears to be a little girl weighing in at about 9 lbs.   We certainly respect his decision, wish him the best, and thank him for the dedication and great program he built and ran. This year we can also thank him for developing a team that finished the season as one of the E-8s best.   Hopefully the team will hang together and another great coach will be hired to replace the one that's leaving.   

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2008, 04:13:42 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on February 26, 2008, 02:34:23 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 26, 2008, 12:06:18 PM
    all this banter and nobody is talking about UC's coach stepping down?

    I got to believe he has another position lined up but can't announce it because that team is still playing.  I'd be shocked if a young guy like that just totally leaves coaching.  Definitely a rising star in upstate.

    Jose you didn't hear Goodemonte is getting the Indiana Job and has some how found out a loophole to get Ray Bryant to come and play for 50 more years....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 26, 2008, 06:27:18 PM
    That is a big a loss for Utica. The guy could flat out coach, and was getting better and better players to come and play at Utica. It was not long ago, that UC was in the basement for the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on February 26, 2008, 11:00:07 PM
    Coach Burton and the Bombers will be NCAA bound!! That little guy with the glasses on the sidelines will lead them to victory!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 26, 2008, 11:04:46 PM
    Quote from: scooterman on February 26, 2008, 11:00:07 PM
    Coach Burton and the Bombers will be NCAA bound!! That little guy with the glasses on the sidelines will lead them to victory!!!

    I believe what you say is true. Do you know Coach Burton?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2008, 08:05:46 AM
    the local utica paper said the other day that he was commuting from albany every day.
    That is a haul especially during the iffy weather bball season.
    Much luck to him!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 27, 2008, 08:24:20 AM
    Goodie will be missed. He has done so much for so many people in this program. While it is a tough pill to swallow, I have total respect for his decision.

    He has always been a great coach and an even better person. I wish he and his family the best of luck. UC is losing the best thing that ever happened to them, but family should always be number one.

    I feel lucky and privilaged to have been able to watch goodie in action as a coach from behind the scenes. His example has helped me as a coach and as a person. Being a husband and father myself, his decision has significant meaning to me.

    I guess all we can do is thank him for all that he has done and wish he and his family the best of luck.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on February 27, 2008, 08:36:01 AM
    I have known Coach Burton for many years and the only thing he does better than coach is play golf!!! Not
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2008, 08:58:20 AM
    well if it is true that he is in fact commuting from Albany... I see one of a couple of things happening...

    1) the Union, RPI, or Skidmore job opens up and he takes it
    2)Siena or Albany offer him an assitant position
    3)St. Rose comes knocking
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2008, 09:09:14 AM
    the article said that he wanted time to be with his new child and that the commute was trying....i dont know if he wanted to stay out of coaching for a while or if it was just a matter of being away from them so much being on the road.
    He would be an asset to any capital district college program.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 27, 2008, 09:29:47 AM
    UC also turned down an ECAC bid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 27, 2008, 09:30:19 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2008, 09:09:14 AM
    the article said that he wanted time to be with his new child and that the commute was trying....i dont know if he wanted to stay out of coaching for a while or if it was just a matter of being away from them so much being on the road.
    He would be an asset to any capital district college program.

    I think he will coach again in the future.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2008, 09:49:11 AM
    I say he ends up with Ualbany...it's a good job he can work as an assitant or whatever with the state....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 27, 2008, 09:52:14 AM
    If he really has family concerns, he won't be a D1 assistant.  The demands those guys have on their time, particularly the travel demands, are burdensome on a family.

    I really think he already has a job lined up but the school cannot announce it because its season is not over yet.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 27, 2008, 09:56:58 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on February 27, 2008, 09:52:14 AM
    If he really has family concerns, he won't be a D1 assistant.  The demands those guys have on their time, particularly the travel demands, are burdensome on a family.

    I really think he already has a job lined up but the school cannot announce it because its season is not over yet.

    Having conversations with some closer to the situation, I am pretty sure this is not the case.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 27, 2008, 09:58:21 AM
    Quote from: superman57 on February 27, 2008, 09:49:11 AM
    I say he ends up with Ualbany...it's a good job he can work as an assitant or whatever with the state....

    He has already played and coached there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 27, 2008, 10:08:35 AM
    I have to guess Goodey has a job lined up.  As stated he has a family and I'm sure working is important. For his sake hopefully closer to home, BUT coaching requires traveling no matter how you look at it. I too wish him luck, as I would any of our e-8 coaches.  56 hours to Tourney TIP-OFF. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 27, 2008, 10:21:18 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 27, 2008, 09:56:58 AMHaving conversations with some closer to the situation, I am pretty sure this is not the case.

    Maybe you are right but, look at the situation, why wouldn't he leave?

    He has maxed out at Utica.  Three things keep a coach at a school: 1) Potential for growth; 2) Connection to the College (ie Alum, Previous Assistant); 3) Connection to the community.

    Goodemote has none of these at UC.  Of course he is looking for the next gig.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 27, 2008, 10:50:33 AM
    Quote from: superman57 on February 27, 2008, 08:58:20 AM
    well if it is true that he is in fact commuting from Albany... I see one of a couple of things happening...

    1) the Union, RPI, or Skidmore job opens up and he takes it
    2)Siena or Albany offer him an assitant position
    3)St. Rose comes knocking

    Of these three options, only the assistant spots seem to be viable. Skidmore's head coach just completed his first year, while RPI and Union have longtime guys that don't appear to be going anywhere.

    Albany would make the most sense to me.

    Another option not listed is the one where he just decided to step away from the game for a bit. Being a parent is a challenging thing, especially with a newborn. I'm guessing he decided Utica had reached its pinnacle, and he's ready for another position, but wants to give it a couple years until the right situation opens up for him. This way, he can take his time to find the right position, and help his wife raise their child. He'll probably stay in the game in some way, but more likely as a volunteer assistant, not a full-time one with all the travel and responsibilities.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2008, 11:17:43 AM
    he's not taking time off... he has a kid and they need some sort of income.... If he has infact played and coached and Ualbany I can see them giving him something with the program... where he can focus on his family for a couple of years but still stay in the game
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 27, 2008, 11:46:08 AM
    Quote from: superman57 on February 27, 2008, 11:17:43 AM
    he's not taking time off... he has a kid and they need some sort of income.... If he has infact played and coached and Ualbany I can see them giving him something with the program... where he can focus on his family for a couple of years but still stay in the game

    I didn't mean he wouldn't be working, I just meant he wouldn't necessarily be coaching full-time due to the time commitments.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on February 27, 2008, 11:50:33 AM
    the other thing that I could see as a possibility is LaSalle Ins. coach resigned earlier this year and I could possibly see him taking over a HS coaching position...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on February 27, 2008, 01:14:22 PM
    Quote from: superman57 on February 27, 2008, 11:17:43 AM
    he's not taking time off... he has a kid and they need some sort of income.

    His wife is a doctor, with a thriving practice in the Saratoga area which is probably why he's able to stay at home.  Andy's originally from Gloversville. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 27, 2008, 01:29:14 PM
    Quote from: thebear on February 27, 2008, 01:14:22 PM
    Quote from: superman57 on February 27, 2008, 11:17:43 AM
    he's not taking time off... he has a kid and they need some sort of income.

    His wife is a doctor, with a thriving practice in the Saratoga area which is probably why he's able to stay at home.  Andy's originally from Gloversville. 



    Actually, and going back to an earlier point about Skidmore, I'm surprised he didn't go after that job last year, based on his geographic location.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2008, 03:01:40 PM
    I think now was a good time to step down. He's not leaving the cupboard bare for the next coach. Herring has one more year left and they have a wealth of younger players who seemed to come on at the end of the season. He left the program in good shape for whoever follows.

    I wonder if Utica stays within the program or tries to nab an up-and-coming assistant in the area. Will Nevada Smith, assistant at IC, make like Sherry Dobbs and take a head coaching position elsewhere? I couldn't blame him as it looks like Mullins plans on staying at IC for the foreseeable future.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2008, 03:05:07 PM
    Or, possibly fellow IC assistant Mike Burton who just happens to be a Utica College grad ('71).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2008, 03:23:40 PM
    wow ucalum71------now i feel young!!!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 27, 2008, 03:34:41 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 27, 2008, 03:05:07 PM
    Or, possibly fellow IC assistant Mike Burton who just happens to be a Utica College grad ('71).

    I don't think this is a real possibility.  Burton is pretty locked into the Finger Lakes if memory serves.  In fact, didn't he come back to IC after coaching his kids at Trumansburg High?

    Assistants are a possibility.  Maybe Greg whatshisface that followed Dobbs and is now at Fisher.  Maybe even Dobbs.  Who wouldn't want to leave the North Country?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on February 27, 2008, 03:43:34 PM
    I think Burton would be a great choice--He grew up in Utica and would be going home!!He is my choice
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 27, 2008, 04:10:14 PM
    Coach Burton is a great choice however i don't think he is even thinking of taking the job. I know Coach Burton enjoys he days off and golfing all the time. He is pretty locked into the finger lakes area as you said Jose. I hope for the Bombers sake he and coach Smith both stay both are phenomenal coaches and with the talent Ithaca has returning they should be a 20 win team next year.

    But that doesn't matter now as they have to prepare for the empire 8 tourney. I wonder with the crowds Ithaca has been getting lately will they open up the other side of bleachers?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 27, 2008, 04:59:15 PM
    Stevens' Pool C chances took a step in the right direction today with the final public regional rankings.  They stayed in the Top 5 in the East, at #5, which bodes well if they can make it to the e8 final.  Looking at the teams they are behind


    Plattsburgh(#1) - Should win the AQ, thus Stevens moves to 4th in the region
    Rochester (#2) - Should get one of the top 8 Pool C bids
    St. Lawrence (#3) - Should win the AQ, thus Stevens moves to 3 in the region
    Brockport (#4) - If Bport makes it to the SUNYAC final, they'll stay in front of Stevens for Pool C.  Otherwise, Stevens will probably jump them, thus putting Stevens behind Rochester as East Region representatives (assuming Plattsburgh/St. Lawrence hold serve)


    Hopefully they don't need the Pool C bid and win the AQ, but if not they have to feel pleased to stay in the Top 5 regional rankings.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2008, 05:16:07 PM
    BomberSquadron, I hope they open up the bleachers behind the benches even if only for Friday evening's games. I'm sure Fisher is going to send a lot of fans b/c this is the E8 Tourney. Also, wouldn't be surprised if the Naz fans and Stevens fans (who I assume will be staying the night) stick around for the late game.

    However, I assume that the Naz/Stevens fans will be sitting in the Ithaca section because their game is first. How are you guys (and girls) going to get them out of there for the second game so that it's an Ithaca-only cheering section.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 27, 2008, 05:28:43 PM
    GB you might be overthinking this.

    Are any of the four schools on spring break?  That would cut the crowds.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 27, 2008, 06:13:48 PM
    You don't have to worry about them opening up the side for the Stevens fans.  With the woman hosting the e8 tourney at home, chances are you are only going to get about 30 Stevens fans making the trip up to Ithaca anyway.  As it is most e8 teams had more fans in the gym for Stevens home games than Stevens did.  I know St. John Fisher dwarfed the Stevens contingent at the game in Hoboken and I heard the Utica/Stevens fan ratio was like 4:1 for Utica's contest down in Jersey.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 27, 2008, 10:17:21 PM
    I would say it was about the same for IC with a lot of parents making the trip and a few alumni representing for the Bombers when they played at Stevens.

    Naz will have a good contingent for Friday's game vs. Stevens. I think the Fisher v. Ithaca game will be packed. Ithaca packed the stands last time and this time it is the conference tourney so you can be sure more people will be there to take in the game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 28, 2008, 08:48:42 AM
    Hey wait a minute, Bomber and Cyclone, if what your saying about the Stevens home games is correct...and I believe you, ( visitors with a big edge in attendance) Stevens should be hosting, they had the better road record!!!!  See you guys Friday....... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 28, 2008, 09:27:39 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 27, 2008, 05:16:07 PM
    BomberSquadron, I hope they open up the bleachers behind the benches even if only for Friday evening's games. I'm sure Fisher is going to send a lot of fans b/c this is the E8 Tourney. Also, wouldn't be surprised if the Naz fans and Stevens fans (who I assume will be staying the night) stick around for the late game.

    However, I assume that the Naz/Stevens fans will be sitting in the Ithaca section because their game is first. How are you guys (and girls) going to get them out of there for the second game so that it's an Ithaca-only cheering section.

    The only fans from Fisher will be family and a few straglers....I don't know if you recall senior day at Fisher. They made all the sports teams come and "support" the basketball teams and the few Ithaca fans made more noise than the Fisher "fans". It was PATHETIC!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 28, 2008, 09:53:08 AM
    Quote from: jasper on February 28, 2008, 09:27:39 AM

    The only fans from Fisher will be family and a few straglers....I don't know if you recall senior day at Fisher. They made all the sports teams come and "support" the basketball teams and the few Ithaca fans made more noise than the Fisher "fans". It was PATHETIC!

    Jasper, you are right. I was at that game and the Fisher crowd was weak. However, i think they will have some fans.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bart1117 on February 28, 2008, 10:32:18 AM
    so whats the take on the weekend?


    Scores/Outcomes? Who are the players to watch?  Any surprises?


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 28, 2008, 10:56:00 AM
    The Empire 8 comes out with its awards and 1st and 2nd teams.

    2008 Empire 8 Men's Basketball Honors
    Player of the Year: Sean Burton, Ithaca College
    Co-Rookie of the Year: Shane Foster, Rochester Institute of Technology       
    Co-Rookie of the Year: Ozell Franklin, St. John Fisher College
    Coach of the Year: Jim Mullins, Ithaca College

    Empire 8 Men's Basketball All-Conference

    First Team:

    Jeff Bostic, Ithaca Junior Forward

    Sean Burton, Ithaca Junior Guard

    Waleed Farid, Stevens Senior Guard

    Doug Herring, Utica Junior Guard

    Corey McAdam, Nazareth Sophomore Guard

    Second Team

    Justin Beigel, St. John Fisher Senior Forward

    Joe Canori, Nazareth Senior Guard

    Mark Carson, RIT Junior Center

    Jan Cocozziello, Hartwick Junior Guard

    Virgil Gray, Stevens Junior Guard

    Honorable Mention
    Chris Baltz, St. John Fisher;
    Kenny Gethers, RIT;
    Ryan McAdam, Nazareth
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 28, 2008, 11:18:36 AM
    Beigel on the 2nd Team?!? Over Gethers and Ryan McAdam?? Stop that. Do the words "career achievement award" mean anything to you?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 28, 2008, 11:21:58 AM
    Here's my breakdown of the Tournament for each team.  Feel free to comment, agree/disagree, whatever:


    Ithaca
    The Guy: Sean Burton
    My pick for Empire 8 player of the year.  It's real simple..he plays well, they have a chance to win the whole thing.  He doesn't play well...they'll be out in the semi's.

    Guy Who Must Step Up big in Tourney: Jeff Bostic
    Played his way right back on to First Team All Empire 8 the second half of this season.  Absolutely dominated Stevens (though there is a reason why that no one talked about which I'll get to) in the last matchup.  If he can continue to do that, they'll be a tough out.

    X-Factor: Home Court Advantage
    I was going to go Sean Leahy but I think you know what you are going to get with him.  More importantly however, is that Ithaca isn't traveling.  We've all documented Stevens inability to win a road game.  We know Naz is a bad road team as well.  I think being at home can work wonders for them.


    Prediction:  Beats Fisher in Semi's, then depends on matchup..loses to FULL Stevens lineup, but beats depleted Stevens and/or Naz


    Stevens
    The Guy: Waleed Farid
    Should be a 1st team all conference guy this year.  Has played very well as of late.  He does pretty much everything for this Stevens squad..scores..rebounds...defends...assists.  If he can shoot the ball well up at Ithaca and limit the turnovers, he should have a very big weekend.  Tough to guard 1 on 1.

    Guy Who Must Step Up big in Tourney: Virgil Gray
    Aside from Fisher, look at Gray's matchups:  Sean Burton and Corey McAdam (if form holds, thats who Gray guarded for both Ithaca games and both Naz games).  For them to win this weekend, Gray has got to play a very smart game on the defensive end.  Offensively you know he's going to get between 16 and 23 points as he has done all year in conference.  But Stevens needs him to play great defense to have a shot.

    X-Factor: Joe Ayodele
    No one has talked about it (probably because no one noticed/didn't think it mattered), but Stevens has been without their backup big man (and only other capable big body) for about the last month.  I hadn't seen him in the box score since Naz, and found the other day that he's been out with a hand injury since then and was seen at Utica in street clothes with a cast.  If he is playing this weekend (I am going to assume he is, because he's a senior and its conference tourney and cast should be off after a month injury), that's 12 minutes that they get back to back up Tim Williams, instead of having to play the freshman kid like they've been doing.  Remember, Ayodele's last game he went for 8 points and 5 blocks against Naz..not bad for your backup big.  Plus, he is tougher than Williams, which will help with Bostic if they meet in the final.

    Prediction:  If Ayodele can play, I think they win the whole thing.  If not, I see them losing to Naz in the semi's.



    Nazareth
    The Guy: Corey McAdam
    McAdam is either going to win or lose this tourney for Naz.  When he is on his game, he makes Ryan and Joe Canori much better players.  When he's off...he delivers an easy 8-10 turnovers to the other team consistently.  I expect a good tournament out of him this time around.

    Guy Who Must Step Up big in Tourney: Joe Canori
    He must score, plain and simple.  He's been at the top of the scoring charts all season, and needs to pull out two of his best performances this time around.  Looking at the last Stevens game...he goes 4-16, 2-9 from 3  (to his credit, Corey went 2-11).  That won't get it done.  Joe in particular must shoot the ball extremely well for Naz to advance.

    X-Factor: Defense
    I've never seen a team that can score so easily and get such big leads (Ithaca last weekend) completely forget how to play basketball when they cross halfcourt going away from their rim.  If they can somehow manage to put together their best two games of the season defensively, they have enough offense to carry them.

    Prediction:  Loses to Stevens if Ayodele is back, otherwise loses to Ithaca in championship game.




    St. John Fisher
    The Guy: Justin Beigl
    Tough kid.  Will need to play extremely well for the Fish this weekend, and stay out of foul trouble.

    Guy Who Must Step Up big in Tourney: Chris Baltz
    Pretty much the same as Beigl in terms of what he must do.  In particular I think Baltz needs to step into a leadership role this weekend and take control, especially in the first game where you known the home crowd is going to be riled up.

    X-Factor: Coaching
    The one big advantage I give Fish is that they have the best coach in the tournament.  Korn is going to play a big role in upsetting Ithaca in the semi's if it happens.  I expect him to put on a very good defensive scheme against Burton and try to make someone else beat him.  Should be a great game.

    Prediction:  Loses to Ithaca in semi's in a very close game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 28, 2008, 11:43:58 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 28, 2008, 11:18:36 AM
    Beigel on the 2nd Team?!? Over Gethers and Ryan McAdam?? Stop that. Do the words "career achievement award" mean anything to you?


    This is where I'm a little stunned. Beigel was put on 2nd team only because he was a senior. His in conference numbers are good (13.2 ppg, 6.7 boards) but fellow senior Kenny Gethers (14.3 / 6.4) averages a point more a game, and less than 1/3 rebounds per. I guess people think Beigel is more important to his team than Gethers. and maybe the fact that Gethers has only been around 2 yrs had something to do with this.

    Now, look at McAdams numbers. 16 ppg, 8.8 rebounds which rank 6th and 3rd in the conference, respectively. An honorable mention player doesn't average those numbers, or put up 25 and 11 against the ithaca college this past weekend.

    "Career Achievement Award" - yeah, pretty ridiculous and pathetic. I am sure that Justin Beigel didn't wake up this morning expecting to get that news from Kornaker.

    Congratulations to all the other players on first and second teams, as well as the ROY's and Sean Burton for POY.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 28, 2008, 12:45:52 PM
    Cyclone pretty good analysis. You have one issue wrong though. In the 2nd. Ithaca vs. Stevens game, Burton was guarded by Greco, who by the way, held him to one field goal the entire game, while HE was on him. When he came out, Baker guarded Burton, and he is a little too slow for Burton, however certainly physically capable and helps off the boards.. Yes the first game Grey had him, and for some parts of the second game. One of Greco's strong points is speed and court sense. He seems to be a few seconds ahead of the game.  I really agree about Ayodele, he needs minutes behind Williams. Stevens Keys are Greco and the Center spot.... The other 3 are going to get their points and YES Fareed needs to limit turnovers as does Corey McAdam for NAZ, that kills these teams. I really don't see anything that can help Fisher in this scenerio. NAZ needs to eliminate turnovers PERIOD. Ithaca, well their home, enough said. Hey I am not an expert on any of these 4 teams, and my reviews are based on a few looks at each team on the internet...( I hook up to my big screen, comes in great).... But I will be there this weekend. Good luck to all... HEY MR. REFEREE, DON"T DECIDE THE GAMES, LET THE PLAYERS DO THAT> ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 28, 2008, 12:51:45 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 28, 2008, 11:43:58 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 28, 2008, 11:18:36 AM
    Beigel on the 2nd Team?!? Over Gethers and Ryan McAdam?? Stop that. Do the words "career achievement award" mean anything to you?


    This is where I'm a little stunned. Beigel was put on 2nd team only because he was a senior. His in conference numbers are good (13.2 ppg, 6.7 boards) but fellow senior Kenny Gethers (14.3 / 6.4) averages a point more a game, and less than 1/3 rebounds per. I guess people think Beigel is more important to his team than Gethers. and maybe the fact that Gethers has only been around 2 yrs had something to do with this.

    Now, look at McAdams numbers. 16 ppg, 8.8 rebounds which rank 6th and 3rd in the conference, respectively. An honorable mention player doesn't average those numbers, or put up 25 and 11 against the ithaca college this past weekend.

    "Career Achievement Award" - yeah, pretty ridiculous and pathetic. I am sure that Justin Beigel didn't wake up this morning expecting to get that news from Kornaker.

    Congratulations to all the other players on first and second teams, as well as the ROY's and Sean Burton for POY.

    I am not stunned at all at Biegel getting second team. He was second team last year and has been Fisher's best most consistant player all year. He was obviously more valuable to Fisher than Gethers was to RIT since Fisher did finish 4th and really could of finished higher than that with a 1 or 2 more wins. What surprised me was Ozell Franklin getting rookie of the year??? I just didn't think he was that great. Very streaky and really did nothing to impress me all year. I don't think they should of split the award.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on February 28, 2008, 12:57:47 PM
    Great analysis.  +k to all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 28, 2008, 03:49:03 PM
    Quote from: jasper on February 28, 2008, 12:51:45 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 28, 2008, 11:43:58 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 28, 2008, 11:18:36 AM
    Beigel on the 2nd Team?!? Over Gethers and Ryan McAdam?? Stop that. Do the words "career achievement award" mean anything to you?


    This is where I'm a little stunned. Beigel was put on 2nd team only because he was a senior. His in conference numbers are good (13.2 ppg, 6.7 boards) but fellow senior Kenny Gethers (14.3 / 6.4) averages a point more a game, and less than 1/3 rebounds per. I guess people think Beigel is more important to his team than Gethers. and maybe the fact that Gethers has only been around 2 yrs had something to do with this.

    Now, look at McAdams numbers. 16 ppg, 8.8 rebounds which rank 6th and 3rd in the conference, respectively. An honorable mention player doesn't average those numbers, or put up 25 and 11 against the ithaca college this past weekend.

    "Career Achievement Award" - yeah, pretty ridiculous and pathetic. I am sure that Justin Beigel didn't wake up this morning expecting to get that news from Kornaker.

    Congratulations to all the other players on first and second teams, as well as the ROY's and Sean Burton for POY.

    I am not stunned at all at Biegel getting second team. He was second team last year and has been Fisher's best most consistant player all year. He was obviously more valuable to Fisher than Gethers was to RIT since Fisher did finish 4th and really could of finished higher than that with a 1 or 2 more wins. What surprised me was Ozell Franklin getting rookie of the year??? I just didn't think he was that great. Very streaky and really did nothing to impress me all year. I don't think they should of split the award.

    There's at least an argument (one that I don't agree with, however) that Beigel may have deserved it more than Gethers. Of course, the numbers don't bare this out. However, I see no argument that Beigel had a better season than Ryan McAdam.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 28, 2008, 03:54:08 PM
    R McAdam also did miss like 6 games due to injury that probably had some factor on why he wasn't on the second team. It's unfortunate but most likely was a factor.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 28, 2008, 03:55:06 PM
    PS And why would you agree with me....Your a fisher hater just like the rest of frickin Ithaca.....it gets a little old
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2008, 07:15:03 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 27, 2008, 03:23:40 PM
    wow ucalum71------now i feel young!!!!!!

    Hell, I was 45....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 28, 2008, 07:16:18 PM
    Quote from: jasper on February 28, 2008, 03:54:08 PM
    R McAdam also did miss like 6 games due to injury that probably had some factor on why he wasn't on the second team. It's unfortunate but most likely was a factor.

    Yeah he missed 3 conference games (Stevens Tech, Ithaca and Fisher) and the chase tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2008, 07:25:21 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 27, 2008, 03:01:40 PM
    I think now was a good time to step down. He's not leaving the cupboard bare for the next coach. Herring has one more year left and they have a wealth of younger players who seemed to come on at the end of the season. He left the program in good shape for whoever follows.

    I wonder if Utica stays within the program or tries to nab an up-and-coming assistant in the area. Will Nevada Smith, assistant at IC, make like Sherry Dobbs and take a head coaching position elsewhere? I couldn't blame him as it looks like Mullins plans on staying at IC for the foreseeable future.

    I know Nevada. We coached at the same college prior to him going to IC. He is a real good guy.

    I am going to stop by the AD's office and recommend that they give it to Brian Collier. He knows the game, knows the system, has respect from the players, and comes from both a winning UC team and a very good HS program.

    I fear that a lot of the alumni support that UC has enjoyed over the last 5 years would dwindle if someone that wasn't a Goodie product took the helm.

    Tom Troy would be another good option, but he already has a career going for him. Jeff Gorski would be another one, but I am not sure what he is up to these days.

    I wonder what Steve Crawford is doing? Cichon and Bryant are still playing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 28, 2008, 08:10:55 PM
    I pretty much agree cyclone. The only thing I may change is the guys who must step up for Fisher to Isiah Smalt. When Smalt scores12-15 points, and is strong defensively, he takes some pressure of Beigle to do all the scoring. He also makes teams concentrate on him, and that can free up the outside shooters. I think he is really an x factor for Fisher.

    A lot will depend on how the roll players for all teams play. I think we can pretty much expect the top guys in the conference to step up and play well. Those other players, like Mckeever, Leahy, and the like can make a big difference for their teams.

    I am really looking forward to the weekend, it should be a lot of entertaining basketball. I will be there, and I will be pulling hard for the team in red tomorrow at 8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombboy8 on February 28, 2008, 08:20:34 PM
    Well this weekend should be quite interesting.  The action kicks off with naz vs stevens and personally I believe Nazareth behind sharpshooting Canori will step up and knock Stevens off.  Stevens has beat naz twice this year but both games Naz outplayed Stevens but just couldn't close it out in the end.  This time around Nazareth will be ready to playa full game and advance to the finals. 
    The second game features Fisher vs Ithaca which should be exciting.  all the pressure is on Ithaca and Sean burton.  Playing at home they are expected to win both games with ease.  This pressure may get to them and they may choke.  I take fisher in a stunner, and they move on to play Nazareth in the finals.  Anybody agree?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 28, 2008, 09:04:35 PM
    I agree Bombboy.  Although idk if i would call it a stunner, they already beat Ithaca at the Bulb.  A few tabs back i predicted Fisher over Ithaca then losing to Naz in the finals.

    Also, I dont think any of the games this wkend are going to be with ease.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on February 28, 2008, 09:35:36 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2008, 07:25:21 PM
    I know Nevada. We coached at the same college prior to him going to IC. He is a real good guy.

    I am going to stop by the AD's office and recommend that they give it to Brian Collier. He knows the game, knows the system, has respect from the players, and comes from both a winning UC team and a very good HS program.

    I fear that a lot of the alumni support that UC has enjoyed over the last 5 years would dwindle if someone that wasn't a Goodie product took the helm.

    Tom Troy would be another good option, but he already has a career going for him. Jeff Gorski would be another one, but I am not sure what he is up to these days.

    I wonder what Steve Crawford is doing? Cichon and Bryant are still playing.
    Jeff Gorski is an assistant coach at Union College, good guy!  Assisted Goode for 3 years so knows the system.  Rumored to want the job? 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2008, 09:40:57 PM
    Quote from: reelentless on February 28, 2008, 09:35:36 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2008, 07:25:21 PM
    I know Nevada. We coached at the same college prior to him going to IC. He is a real good guy.

    I am going to stop by the AD's office and recommend that they give it to Brian Collier. He knows the game, knows the system, has respect from the players, and comes from both a winning UC team and a very good HS program.

    I fear that a lot of the alumni support that UC has enjoyed over the last 5 years would dwindle if someone that wasn't a Goodie product took the helm.

    Tom Troy would be another good option, but he already has a career going for him. Jeff Gorski would be another one, but I am not sure what he is up to these days.

    I wonder what Steve Crawford is doing? Cichon and Bryant are still playing.
    Jeff Gorski is an assistant coach at Union College, good guy!  Assisted Goode for 3 years so knows the system.  Rumored to want the job? 


    I knew he was out there, but I havn't talked to him in about a year. Wasn't sure what his current situation outside of coaching is.

    Collier went to the same HS as Jeff. UC went with my former teammate Parnell as lax coach over some big name coaches. Wouldn't be surprised to see it be someone who played in the program.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2008, 10:01:51 PM
    Maybe they can try to get Tom Murphy to come back to the area.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on February 28, 2008, 10:31:47 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2008, 09:40:57 PM
    I knew he was out there, but I havn't talked to him in about a year. Wasn't sure what his current situation outside of coaching is.

    Collier went to the same HS as Jeff. UC went with my former teammate Parnell as lax coach over some big name coaches. Wouldn't be surprised to see it be someone who played in the program.
    The team seems to have a lot of respect for Brian, but if both he and Jeff are interested and available Brian would be at a disadvantage; he'd be coaching his former teammates and hasn't had much recruiting experience.   Jeff coaching with Brian assisting has a nice ring to it?  Hopefully we'll have an answer quickly,  would like to see this team hang together.

    With parity lurking at every E-8 game this year it's hard not to predict a tight, anyone can win it tournament.  That said, assuming they play reasonably well at BOTH ends, I don't see anyone hanging with Burton, Bostic, Leahy and rest of the Ithaca team.  Too much fire power.  If they show up and play decently, they'll cruise.   Big if.




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2008, 11:15:55 PM
    Quote from: reelentless on February 28, 2008, 10:31:47 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2008, 09:40:57 PM
    I knew he was out there, but I havn't talked to him in about a year. Wasn't sure what his current situation outside of coaching is.

    Collier went to the same HS as Jeff. UC went with my former teammate Parnell as lax coach over some big name coaches. Wouldn't be surprised to see it be someone who played in the program.
    The team seems to have a lot of respect for Brian, but if both he and Jeff are interested and available Brian would be at a disadvantage; he'd be coaching his former teammates and hasn't had much recruiting experience.   Jeff coaching with Brian assisting has a nice ring to it?  Hopefully we'll have an answer quickly,  would like to see this team hang together.

    With parity lurking at every E-8 game this year it's hard not to predict a tight, anyone can win it tournament.  That said, assuming they play reasonably well at BOTH ends, I don't see anyone hanging with Burton, Bostic, Leahy and rest of the Ithaca team.  Too much fire power.  If they show up and play decently, they'll cruise.   Big if.






    Even though UC just spanked them, come this time of year, Fisher is dangerous. If they win the first game, I don't see them losing the second. Different team than years past, but until someone knocks them off, they are the team to beat.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: trueindian on February 29, 2008, 07:33:31 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on February 28, 2008, 09:35:36 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2008, 07:25:21 PM
    I know Nevada. We coached at the same college prior to him going to IC. He is a real good guy.

    I am going to stop by the AD's office and recommend that they give it to Brian Collier. He knows the game, knows the system, has respect from the players, and comes from both a winning UC team and a very good HS program.

    I fear that a lot of the alumni support that UC has enjoyed over the last 5 years would dwindle if someone that wasn't a Goodie product took the helm.

    Tom Troy would be another good option, but he already has a career going for him. Jeff Gorski would be another one, but I am not sure what he is up to these days.

    I wonder what Steve Crawford is doing? Cichon and Bryant are still playing.
    Jeff Gorski is an assistant coach at Union College, good guy!  Assisted Goode for 3 years so knows the system.  Rumored to want the job? 

    Gregg Hepler, St. John Fisher assistant is also a great guy who has been aroung Empire 8 basketball for a few years.  He basically helped Ithaca get to where they are now.  He is a tireless recruiter that well-respected Rob Kornaker wanted to help him on his staff.  Gregg has a lot of respect  around the league and a passion for wanting to make a program the best it can be.  He definitely deserves a look as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 29, 2008, 08:39:38 AM
    agreed, hepler is a great guy and will be a great coach when he gets a position.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8hoopsfan on February 29, 2008, 12:30:20 PM
    Could not agree more about Hepler!!  What it takes to make a d3 basketball program successful - Hepler has it.  Not only an unbelievable recruiter, and desire to win, the players respect him.  Whether it's starting a program from the bottom up or knowing the current system, I am pretty sure Hepler can get it done.  There is a reason he is at fisher.  Who wouldn't want to be a part of one the best E8 basketball programs and under the most respected coach in Kornacker?  I am surprised he is not a head coach yet...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on February 29, 2008, 01:00:03 PM
    He should be very soon. Word around the grapevine the players like Hepler more than Kornacker.....He will be a successful head coach maybe in the empire 8!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 29, 2008, 03:19:25 PM
    I'm officially pumped for this evening. I have spent the last hour listening to the Rocky soundtrack and You-Tubeing various things including Syracuse's "One Shining Moment" montage (and, of course, Roy Williams's post-game interview with Bonnie Bernstein which is always must-see TV...you can't convince me that he hadn't already made up his mind to go to UNC before that game), the Drury and Afinogenov goals from Game 5 last year vs the Rangers, and Hulk Hogan's entrance music. I feel like I've had about six energy drinks.

    Anyways, here's an actual convo with my girlfriend this morning. We'll just refer to her as Mrs. GB15:

    Mrs. GB15: Hey, want to go to dinner at Emeril's tonight?
    GB15: Absolutely not. Don't you know what this weekend is?
    Mrs. GB15: (looking perplexed) Um, no.
    GB15: Empire 8 Tournament weekend.
    Mrs. GB15: Does that mean you're going to be watching basketball on your laptop and posting on that stupid board from 5-10 tonight and 2-5 tomorrow??
    GB15: Yeah, probably. And don't forget, the Sabres play tonight so I need the living room TV to watch that, too. Would you actually mind if I used your laptop? Yours has the LCD screen and mine doesn't.
    Mrs. GB15: (muffled swear words, exits room)

    Now, she isn't that angry. Still, she shouldn't have expected much from me this weekend. I'll be back later with predictions.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 29, 2008, 05:52:55 PM
    PREDICTIONS

    Naz over Stevens, 79-75.

    ITHACA over Fisher, 81-76.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on February 29, 2008, 06:28:08 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 29, 2008, 05:52:55 PM
    PREDICTIONS

    Naz over Stevens, 79-75.

    ITHACA over Fisher, 81-76.

    Predictions

    Naz vs. Stevens- who gives a s#it
    Fisher over Ithaca 131-3
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 29, 2008, 07:01:27 PM
    Naz leads at the half but will they be able to hold on? They had some 10 point leads but Stevens would cut right into them.

    Naz's press seemed to rattle Stevens and they couldn't solve the 1-3-1 either.

    Stevens X-Factor Adolyeye has been everything but that in the first half. 3 awful post moves which resulted in their coach telling him to pass the ball.

    Very sloppy game from both teams end of the first half was just ugly basketball.

    GO BOMBERS!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 29, 2008, 07:43:22 PM
    Naz holds on to win by the score of 81-70.

    Story of the second half Naz shot well, hit a lot of threes. Stevens couldn't make a lay-up, missed a lot of lay-ups.

    Gotta get back to my seat!

    The fans are starting to fill up the Bulb.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 29, 2008, 08:52:36 PM
    Ithaca digs themselves another first half hole, trailing by 14 at the break. Same old song for the Bombers in the E8 Tourney: blown defensive assignments and playing tight on the offensive end. Looks like it may be a quick exit unless they can get things together quick.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 29, 2008, 09:02:02 PM
    Fisher besides some slip ups towards the end of the first half are playing great defense and getting the ball inside to smalt who is finishing at will when he gets a catch.  Theres a great crowd for the game and great atmosphere.  Look for Ithaca to come back in the 2nd half, should be a good finish.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 29, 2008, 09:12:47 PM
    Won't be any comeback if Leahy keeps up his goose-egg and Rogers remains more concerned with arguing with the refs. Three minutes into the half and IC still doesn't have a hoop. Good heart, IC.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 29, 2008, 09:20:32 PM
    This game is over, out played in everyway.  If fisher plays like this they might be able to get back to the sweet 16.  Although i dont think they can keep it up consistently enough.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 29, 2008, 09:22:57 PM
    Don't be an idiot. Fisher played well, Ithaca picked the worst time of year to lay an egg. Simple as that. No need for the passive aggressive posts. I don't think Fisher has gone more than two possessions without scoring. Terrible defense by Ithaca tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 29, 2008, 09:47:22 PM
    #3 vs #4 for the E8 Championship. One bid league.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 29, 2008, 09:59:53 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 29, 2008, 09:47:22 PM
    #3 vs #4 for the E8 Championship. One bid league.

    Worst part is, naz shouldn't even have made the tournament. They got their butts whooped in the "win" against UC.

    Even though Fisher is the better team of the two, anything can happen when those two play. E8 could be represnted by the worst possible team to do so.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 29, 2008, 10:04:08 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 29, 2008, 09:59:53 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 29, 2008, 09:47:22 PM
    #3 vs #4 for the E8 Championship. One bid league.

    Worst part is, naz shouldn't even have made the tournament. They got their butts whooped in the "win" against UC.

    Even though Fisher is the better team of the two, anything can happen when those two play. E8 could be represnted by the worst possible team to do so.

    It's all about matchups. Naz seems to be a tough matchup for Fisher. Naz worked them in the first one and did the same for most of the second game. Would be embarrassing for Fisher to lose a third time to their arch-rival, especially when the third loss ends their season.

    Ithaca, like Utica, started practice early and is thus ineligible for the ECAC's. The commentators mentioned that Fisher started early, too. If Naz wins tomorrow, who is going to play in the ECAC's? Seems like there aren't many options.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: keystonelight on February 29, 2008, 10:07:22 PM
    couldn't make it to many games this season due to distance but i'm glad to see fisher play to their potential

    also i'd like to thank ICTV for a great service...professional commentators, video feed was a little sketchy at times...but for free you just can't beat it

    shout out for bearden too...one hell of a career sorry to see him get injured


    you too 42 boys, past and present!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: keystonelight on February 29, 2008, 10:09:23 PM
    i feel like the ncaa needs to revise some... MANY... of their policies... ithaca would go far in the ecacs and how many D1 nit teams this year do you think will have come back from break a day early? totally bogus
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 29, 2008, 10:10:32 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 29, 2008, 10:04:08 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 29, 2008, 09:59:53 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 29, 2008, 09:47:22 PM
    #3 vs #4 for the E8 Championship. One bid league.

    Worst part is, naz shouldn't even have made the tournament. They got their butts whooped in the "win" against UC.

    Even though Fisher is the better team of the two, anything can happen when those two play. E8 could be represnted by the worst possible team to do so.

    Interesting. In the Article about Goodie, they said UC turned down an ECAC bid that was extended.

    Honestly the top 5 teams were good enough to get 4 ECAC bids. They were all very close this season.

    It's all about matchups. Naz seems to be a tough matchup for Fisher. Naz worked them in the first one and did the same for most of the second game. Would be embarrassing for Fisher to lose a third time to their arch-rival, especially when the third loss ends their season.

    Ithaca, like Utica, started practice early and is thus ineligible for the ECAC's. The commentators mentioned that Fisher started early, too. If Naz wins tomorrow, who is going to play in the ECAC's? Seems like there aren't many options.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mefor3again on February 29, 2008, 10:12:20 PM
    Does anyone know what schools would be going to the ECAC's from the E8?

    I wanted to be the first to post Tom Murphy's name with Utica, nice work ucgrad45. I think it would be great to get him back in the area.  I think he got a raw deal at Hamilton.  Some names that I think should be considered, although purely speculation on my part...

    Head Coaches from other places
    Coach Goodemote-maybe they can convince him to reconsider
    Tom Murphy-(already mentioned) maybe, just maybe...
    Chris Downs-head coach at SLU-can't believe he would leave the team he has coming back, but would be a nice hire for Utica
    Tobin Anderson-head coach at Hamilton-could see him being interested
    Bob Montana-Head Coach at Union-just a hunch
    Rob Kornaker-Head Coach-SJF-same with Downs, can't see him leaving, but maybe.
    I don't know who, but I would guess a SUNYAC coach or two may want to look at Utica

    Junior College coaches
    Andre Cook-Hudson Valley head coach-#1 JC team in the country-was rumored to be in the mix for Skidmore last year
    Dave Pasiak-SUNY OCC head coach-ties locally to Utica area-have heard his name come up before for jobs
    Matt Lee-Herkimer head coach-may be ready to jump to four-year school

    Assistants to look at
    Jeff Gorski-assistant at Union-already mentioned, have to think he has inside track if it stays in house
    Gallagher Driscoll-assistant at LeMoyne, has been at the DI and DII levels as an assistant-could have solid enough resume to get it
    Rich Gilooly-assistant at RPI, very good young coach, highly thought of by many coaches
    Gregg Hepler-assistant at St. John Fisher, already mentioned
    Ryan Kadlubowski-assistant at Rochester-nationally ranked program, ranked number 1 for a while this year.
    I could also see a NESCAC assistant be a guy Utica would be interested in.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: keystonelight on February 29, 2008, 10:17:23 PM
    Kornaker went to highschool in the rochester area and started a winning tradition at Fisher...can't see him leaving...he's made a nice life for himself there
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: MHoops on February 29, 2008, 10:25:24 PM
    Quote from: mefor3again on February 29, 2008, 10:12:20 PM
    Does anyone know what schools would be going to the ECAC's from the E8?
    ...

    ECAC declaration info is here:   http://ecac.org/championships/team/mbkb/2007-08/Declaration%20Information

    You can see the declared teams from the link on the right side of the page.

    Stevens, Fisher, Naz and Elmira are on the list for the E8, although it looks like Stevens would be playing in the Metro region.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: keystonelight on February 29, 2008, 10:29:14 PM
    what are the chances of uticas coach maybe having a d2 job to leave utica for?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: keystonelight on February 29, 2008, 10:29:54 PM
    i've always looked at him as being one of the few local coaches who could make the jump up another level
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on February 29, 2008, 10:50:21 PM
    From what I understand, It's exactly what he said.  New baby, wife is the top earner in the family, he's been living away from his family to work for the the few crumbs a D-III coach gets thrown his way.  Probably after taxes, an apt, the cost of gas & wear & tear on his vehicle, and the fact that most D-III coaches are constantly having to dip into their own pockets to feed their teams, because of tight expense budgets, he sat down, took a long look and said, this is dumb.

    Only D-II program in the Albany area is at St. Rose, & Beaury is entrenched there.  If Andre Cook were to leave HV, that might be a situation that would be tempting, but I really think the guy meant what he said. 

    Being a basketball coach isn't very family friendly, at any level.  If your wife has a high powered job, for which she spent 4 yrs of college, 4 years of med school & 3-6 years of residency, she is not always going to be home to put the kid on the bus or pick the kid up from day care.  I think he didn't want his child raised by strangers.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 29, 2008, 11:02:23 PM
    I think the big difference in tonights game was the Coaching. Kornaker just outcoached Mullens by a long way. IC kept trying the high screen that worked so well the first two times they played, even tho it was obvious about a minute in that Fisher was not going to allow that to beat them.
    Burton is incredible. I thought Fisher did a very good job on him tonight, and he still got 25. Fisher's roll players really stepped up, and really put Fisher on the winning track.

    IC may not have played their best game of the year, but Fisher had a lot to do with that. They were really commited on the defensive end, and the rebounding.

    Should be fun tomorrow with Fisher/Naz 3 for the whole thing. Hopefully Kornaker left some tricks in the bag Naz.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 29, 2008, 11:06:09 PM
    Quote from: mefor3again on February 29, 2008, 10:12:20 PM
    Does anyone know what schools would be going to the ECAC's from the E8?

    I wanted to be the first to post Tom Murphy's name with Utica, nice work ucgrad45. I think it would be great to get him back in the area.  I think he got a raw deal at Hamilton.  Some names that I think should be considered, although purely speculation on my part...

    Head Coaches from other places
    Coach Goodemote-maybe they can convince him to reconsider
    Tom Murphy-(already mentioned) maybe, just maybe...
    Chris Downs-head coach at SLU-can't believe he would leave the team he has coming back, but would be a nice hire for Utica
    Tobin Anderson-head coach at Hamilton-could see him being interested
    Bob Montana-Head Coach at Union-just a hunch
    Rob Kornaker-Head Coach-SJF-same with Downs, can't see him leaving, but maybe.
    I don't know who, but I would guess a SUNYAC coach or two may want to look at Utica

    Junior College coaches
    Andre Cook-Hudson Valley head coach-#1 JC team in the country-was rumored to be in the mix for Skidmore last year
    Dave Pasiak-SUNY OCC head coach-ties locally to Utica area-have heard his name come up before for jobs
    Matt Lee-Herkimer head coach-may be ready to jump to four-year school

    Assistants to look at
    Jeff Gorski-assistant at Union-already mentioned, have to think he has inside track if it stays in house
    Gallagher Driscoll-assistant at LeMoyne, has been at the DI and DII levels as an assistant-could have solid enough resume to get it
    Rich Gilooly-assistant at RPI, very good young coach, highly thought of by many coaches
    Gregg Hepler-assistant at St. John Fisher, already mentioned
    Ryan Kadlubowski-assistant at Rochester-nationally ranked program, ranked number 1 for a while this year.
    I could also see a NESCAC assistant be a guy Utica would be interested in.


    Maybe it is just a coincidence, but your handle...

    Could you possibly be somebody on that list or close to somebody on that list?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 29, 2008, 11:09:33 PM
    I agree gobombers, it is all about matchups and out of all the teams in the e8 i think naz is the toughest for Fisher.  They are more experienced at every position, a little stronger, and has more scoring power at the guard positions.  However, I think Fisher plays better at Ithaca than Naz does, in addition, as you mentioned it is always tough to beat a team 3 times, and with a rivalry is big as this one, idk if i see that happening.  I hope not anyways.  I think Naz will win by 5, i said it from the beginning i think its the year they finally come together, Ryan is getting healthier game by game.  We'll see.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 29, 2008, 11:12:28 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 29, 2008, 11:09:33 PM
    I agree gobombers, it is all about matchups and out of all the teams in the e8 i think naz is the toughest for Fisher.  They are more experienced at every position, a little stronger, and has more scoring power at the guard positions.  However, I think Fisher plays better at Ithaca than Naz does, in addition, as you mentioned it is always tough to beat a team 3 times, and with a rivalry is big as this one, idk if i see that happening.  I hope not anyways.  I think Naz will win by 5, i said it from the beginning i think its the year they finally come together, Ryan is getting healthier game by game.  We'll see.

    I think Naz is terrible, as they looked terrible every time I saw them. However, they always play well in rivalry games.

    Regardless, as I said before, Fisher is dangerous this time of year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on February 29, 2008, 11:27:04 PM
    ok about that list...It's a laugh to even put Kornaker on the list....in all reality it would be a step down for Korn...nothing against Utica but they aren't quite at fisher's level they did it once, fisher has done it for a while....  and well Ithaca layed a huge egg today like usual...how much more of a disapointment does mullins need to be before they say screw it and fire him, they had an incredible team this year and blew it to a sub-par fisher squad on their own home court...TWICE
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 29, 2008, 11:48:42 PM
    Quote from: superman57 on February 29, 2008, 11:27:04 PM
    ok about that list...It's a laugh to even put Kornaker on the list....in all reality it would be a step down for Korn...nothing against Utica but they aren't quite at fisher's level they did it once, fisher has done it for a while....  and well Ithaca layed a huge egg today like usual...how much more of a disapointment does mullins need to be before they say screw it and fire him, they had an incredible team this year and blew it to a sub-par fisher squad on their own home court...TWICE

    I was all about firing Mullins before firing Mullins was cool.  He is fail, as they say on the internets these days.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 01, 2008, 12:36:11 AM
    I do think Mullins is a bad coach but superman...ithaca has an incredible team? come on, you might have lost it.  Ithaca is Solid/good at most.  what is sub par for Fisher? sub par compared to previous years? then yes definatly, sub par to the conf? i dont think so, sub par to the region? no.  all in all i think Fisher is better than Ithaca, a not as good as Naz and about even with Stevens.  If they do come together and each game the young players to play in and smalt gets in they might be able to overcome naz, idk though, the lack of leadership could back fire.  All though, Naz still has an outside shot at an at large where Fishers season besides ECACs is over if they lose.  They are going to come out extremely pumped up.

    As ive been saying all year long, Ithaca is still a year away from being a NCAA tourny team, they had a very good season, burton is very good.  From watching the game tonight some of the subtle things he does is impressive.  He is very good at drawing contact.  I think coyne and mckeever did a great job defensively and burton still got his points.  Leahy needs to hit the weights and cut his hair, bostic will be better next year after another year of lifting and some of there other younger role players could develop into what that team needs to get to the next level. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 08:36:33 AM
    Quote from: mefor3again on February 29, 2008, 10:12:20 PM

    Head Coaches from other places
    Coach Goodemote-maybe they can convince him to reconsider
    Tom Murphy-(already mentioned) maybe, just maybe...
    Chris Downs-head coach at SLU-can't believe he would leave the team he has coming back, but would be a nice hire for Utica
    Tobin Anderson-head coach at Hamilton-could see him being interested
    Bob Montana-Head Coach at Union-just a hunch
    Rob Kornaker-Head Coach-SJF-same with Downs, can't see him leaving, but maybe.
    I don't know who, but I would guess a SUNYAC coach or two may want to look at Utica




    Just curious, but barring some strange circumstance, why would any of these coaches be interested in trading their job in to go to Utica?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 08:41:51 AM
    Quote from: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 08:36:33 AM
    Quote from: mefor3again on February 29, 2008, 10:12:20 PM

    Head Coaches from other places
    Coach Goodemote-maybe they can convince him to reconsider
    Tom Murphy-(already mentioned) maybe, just maybe...
    Chris Downs-head coach at SLU-can't believe he would leave the team he has coming back, but would be a nice hire for Utica
    Tobin Anderson-head coach at Hamilton-could see him being interested
    Bob Montana-Head Coach at Union-just a hunch
    Rob Kornaker-Head Coach-SJF-same with Downs, can't see him leaving, but maybe.
    I don't know who, but I would guess a SUNYAC coach or two may want to look at Utica




    Just curious, but barring some strange circumstance, why would any of these coaches be interested in trading their job in to go to Utica?

    Murphy- Legend in the area. Hosed out of his head coaching job. Longtime Rival of UC when the rivalry was crazier than Fisher/naz is now. A return to the area as a head coach could be very interesting for him.

    Downs- Having coached at a school a few miles from there, that area is beautiful, but absolutely sucks if you ever need consumer goods or medical care. The -40 degree winters take a toll as well.

    Anderson- Hamilton has done some crappy things to coaches.

    Montana- Utica is a better job.



    BTW, Mets are on SNY today! Should be a great season!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on March 01, 2008, 08:44:20 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 01, 2008, 12:36:11 AM
    I do think Mullins is a bad coach but superman...ithaca has an incredible team? come on, you might have lost it.  Ithaca is Solid/good at most.  what is sub par for Fisher? sub par compared to previous years? then yes definatly, sub par to the conf? i dont think so, sub par to the region? no.  all in all i think Fisher is better than Ithaca, a not as good as Naz and about even with Stevens.  If they do come together and each game the young players to play in and smalt gets in they might be able to overcome naz, idk though, the lack of leadership could back fire.  All though, Naz still has an outside shot at an at large where Fishers season besides ECACs is over if they lose.  They are going to come out extremely pumped up.

    As ive been saying all year long, Ithaca is still a year away from being a NCAA tourny team, they had a very good season, burton is very good.  From watching the game tonight some of the subtle things he does is impressive.  He is very good at drawing contact.  I think coyne and mckeever did a great job defensively and burton still got his points.  Leahy needs to hit the weights and cut his hair, bostic will be better next year after another year of lifting and some of there other younger role players could develop into what that team needs to get to the next level. 

    Last night was an example of an old fashion butt kickin period. Fisher was faster to offensive rebounds, loose balls and beat Ithaca in about every aspect. Burton had 25 but he earned them. You can 't even breath on that kid and its a foul. If Fisher plays like that today it's gonna be another Empire 8 tourney title. I think J. Beig proved he is at least second team. He owned Bostic just like Fisher has owned Ithaca in Ithaca.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on March 01, 2008, 09:11:41 AM
    If Ithaca could not win this year with the players that they had...then they will never win...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 01, 2008, 09:31:05 AM
    idk superman I think they will have a descet shot next year, theres a big difference between being a junior and a senior.  they do need one or two more good players to fill out their starting spot, i think with another year of experience brown or brendon rogers can get there and maybe an incoming frosh can get some quality minutes.

    although Naz is going to be tough next year with both mcadams back, higdon, dehimer if they get bozzeli back, and other fresh.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 09:36:04 AM
    Don't forget, everybody but Munch is coming back for UC.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 09:37:43 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 08:41:51 AM
    Quote from: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 08:36:33 AM
    Quote from: mefor3again on February 29, 2008, 10:12:20 PM

    Head Coaches from other places
    Coach Goodemote-maybe they can convince him to reconsider
    Tom Murphy-(already mentioned) maybe, just maybe...
    Chris Downs-head coach at SLU-can't believe he would leave the team he has coming back, but would be a nice hire for Utica
    Tobin Anderson-head coach at Hamilton-could see him being interested
    Bob Montana-Head Coach at Union-just a hunch
    Rob Kornaker-Head Coach-SJF-same with Downs, can't see him leaving, but maybe.
    I don't know who, but I would guess a SUNYAC coach or two may want to look at Utica




    Just curious, but barring some strange circumstance, why would any of these coaches be interested in trading their job in to go to Utica?

    Murphy- Legend in the area. Hosed out of his head coaching job. Longtime Rival of UC when the rivalry was crazier than Fisher/naz is now. A return to the area as a head coach could be very interesting for him.

    Downs- Having coached at a school a few miles from there, that area is beautiful, but absolutely sucks if you ever need consumer goods or medical care. The -40 degree winters take a toll as well.

    Anderson- Hamilton has done some crappy things to coaches.

    Montana- Utica is a better job.



    BTW, Mets are on SNY today! Should be a great season!

    Murphy already had a head coaching job in Utica that he left to go work in D-1 with a bunch of his former players in a great area (Boston).  Plus, he's also not exactly at the age that you want to build a program around.

    As for the others, I just don't see someone leaving St. Lawrence, Hamilton, or Union to coach Utica.  While it may be that they've been at least as good, if not better, than those teams the past several years, I think the prestige of the school comes into play as well.  No disrespect meant to Utica, but it just doesn't have the same kind of reputation as those other schools.  I think that plays a big part when it comes to where people might or might not want to coach, especially if they're already well established somewhere.  Again, I'm not trying to dump on Utica, that's just how it seems to usually work.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 01, 2008, 09:42:15 AM
    I think Utica is going to be up there next year as well, as long as they get a descent coach and players dont leave.  Not sure how much goodemote leaving is going to affect their recruiting class.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 09:43:29 AM
    Quote from: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 09:37:43 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 08:41:51 AM
    Quote from: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 08:36:33 AM
    Quote from: mefor3again on February 29, 2008, 10:12:20 PM

    Head Coaches from other places
    Coach Goodemote-maybe they can convince him to reconsider
    Tom Murphy-(already mentioned) maybe, just maybe...
    Chris Downs-head coach at SLU-can't believe he would leave the team he has coming back, but would be a nice hire for Utica
    Tobin Anderson-head coach at Hamilton-could see him being interested
    Bob Montana-Head Coach at Union-just a hunch
    Rob Kornaker-Head Coach-SJF-same with Downs, can't see him leaving, but maybe.
    I don't know who, but I would guess a SUNYAC coach or two may want to look at Utica




    Just curious, but barring some strange circumstance, why would any of these coaches be interested in trading their job in to go to Utica?

    Murphy- Legend in the area. Hosed out of his head coaching job. Longtime Rival of UC when the rivalry was crazier than Fisher/naz is now. A return to the area as a head coach could be very interesting for him.

    Downs- Having coached at a school a few miles from there, that area is beautiful, but absolutely sucks if you ever need consumer goods or medical care. The -40 degree winters take a toll as well.

    Anderson- Hamilton has done some crappy things to coaches.

    Montana- Utica is a better job.



    BTW, Mets are on SNY today! Should be a great season!

    Murphy already had a head coaching job in Utica that he left to go work in D-1 with a bunch of his former players in a great area (Boston).  Plus, he's also not exactly at the age that you want to build a program around.

    As for the others, I just don't see someone leaving St. Lawrence, Hamilton, or Union to coach Utica.  While it may be that they've been at least as good, if not better, than those teams the past several years, I think the prestige of the school comes into play as well.  No disrespect meant to Utica, but it just doesn't have the same kind of reputation as those other schools.  I think that plays a big part when it comes to where people might or might not want to coach, especially if they're already well established somewhere.  Again, I'm not trying to dump on Utica, that's just how it seems to usually work.

    Murphy was forced out of Hamilton.

    The St. Lawrence job is nowhere near as good a job as Utica. Especially if you plan on having a family. It sucks living up there as a coach.

    UC as a school has made leaps and bounds over the last 5 years and continues to grow. Facilities are better, more programs, still a Syracuse degree, and athletics improving each year.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 09:44:18 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 01, 2008, 09:42:15 AM
    I think Utica is going to be up there next year as well, as long as they get a descent coach and players dont leave.  Not sure how much goodemote leaving is going to affect their recruiting class.

    Another reason why I hope they fill the position quickly. Fortunately, there aren't a lot of roster spots to fill.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 09:59:05 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 09:43:29 AM


    Murphy was forced out of Hamilton.

    The St. Lawrence job is nowhere near as good a job as Utica. Especially if you plan on having a family. It sucks living up there as a coach.

    UC as a school has made leaps and bounds over the last 5 years and continues to grow. Facilities are better, more programs, still a Syracuse degree, and athletics improving each year.



    Murphy was not forced out of SUNY IT, which is what I was referring to. 

    There are plenty of people who enjoy living in a place like the north country - I don't know if he is one of them or not, but it's not as though moving 100 miles down Rt. 12 to Utica is like moving to San Diego.  In fact, it snows more in Utica than it does in Canton.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 01, 2008, 10:16:42 AM
    Quote from: superman57 on March 01, 2008, 09:11:41 AM
    If Ithaca could not win this year with the players that they had...then they will never win...

    Maybe next year with Burton and Bostic back.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 01, 2008, 11:22:17 AM
    Quote from: superman57 on March 01, 2008, 09:11:41 AM
    If Ithaca could not win this year with the players that they had...then they will never win...

    As several people mentioned, they have the same players next year.

    Quote from: jasper on March 01, 2008, 08:44:20 AM

    Last night was an example of an old fashion butt kickin period. Fisher was faster to offensive rebounds, loose balls and beat Ithaca in about every aspect. Burton had 25 but he earned them. You can 't even breath on that kid and its a foul. If Fisher plays like that today it's gonna be another Empire 8 tourney title. I think J. Beig proved he is at least second team. He owned Bostic just like Fisher has owned Ithaca in Ithaca.

    1) Who did Beigel own? He had 9 pts and 3 rebs with 6 mins left and Fisher up 24. Glad he scored 9 during those very important last six minutes. Stop just looking at box scores and making conclusions from them.

    2) I can see why Beigel fouls out so often. A smart defender could get him to commit 2-3 offensive fouls per game. Two of his three moves (the spin move and the backdown) are telegraphed and involve a lot of contact. He lowers his shoulder into the defender's chest a lot. This is successful against shot-blockers like Bostic. But defenders can just plant their feet and wait for the shoulder and it'll be a charge going the other way. We'll see if Ryan McAdam does that today.

    3) Yes, Burton is great at drawing fouls. Plus, it doesn't hurt that he was POY. He doesn't get any more calls than Sean O'Brien did when he was playing. Whenever Fisher got into trouble, which wasn't too often, you could bet your bottom dollar that O'Brien would go barrelling through the lane, crash into a big, hurl the ball at the hoop and go to the line for two. I'm not saying Burton's better, but Burton does have a little better offensive game so it's no surprise he goes to the line so much. However, I would have liked having O'Brien's steadying influence and ability to right the ship last night when things were going to hell for Ithaca and nobody made a play for the Bombers or settled things down.

    Other random thoughts from last night:

    -Where was the Bostic who had been playing with a chip on his shoulder for the last 2.5 weeks of the season? That Bostic was a beast down the stretch. Didn't see that same angry/aggressive Bostic last night.

    -Brendan Rogers: I think he's still chirping at the refs. Can't let them throw you off your game and, last night, he was taken out of his game by a couple of calls he disagreed with. Just play.

    -Sean Leahy is in the box score, but are we positive he actually played in that game?

    -Ithaca needed double-figures from two of the Leahy, Brown, Kail, Rogers group to win. Instead, they scored 2, 4, 2, 6 points. That's not going to win anything for you.

    Can't take anything away from Fisher, played a great game. Seems like they love playing in The Bulb. Will be interesting to see the type of crowd that shows up today for Fisher/Naz. Will probably be the emptiest gym that you'll ever see for a game between those two teams. If Fisher plays like they did last night, they'll be in the NCAA's (and, unfortunately, probably get fed to UR). Really is tough to beat the same team three times and I've gotta think Fisher's figured some things out, especially considering how well they played in the 2nd half of the second Naz game. I'll take Fisher, 83-76.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 01, 2008, 11:48:13 AM
    I tend to agree with you gobombers except for beigle only having two moves. He scores in a lot of different ways, and he scores against every team he plays. Yes he gets into foul trouble, because he is big, strong, and physical. I don't think anyone who was at the game last night wouldn't say that Beigle outplayed Bostic. He has been scoring on people for 4 years now. Lets give him some credit.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 01, 2008, 12:53:23 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on March 01, 2008, 11:48:13 AM
    I tend to agree with you gobombers except for beigle only having two moves. He scores in a lot of different ways, and he scores against every team he plays. Yes he gets into foul trouble, because he is big, strong, and physical. I don't think anyone who was at the game last night wouldn't say that Beigle outplayed Bostic. He has been scoring on people for 4 years now. Lets give him some credit.

    I said he has three moves. I was not referring to the pump-fake/up-and-under he has, as well. Plus, I have often given Beigel credit. I just don't think he warranted second team this year. Ryan McAdam had a better season than him, even if he did miss a few conference games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on March 01, 2008, 01:17:50 PM
    Beigle got 2nd team because he was a senior and because they had to give someone from Fisher on spot on one of the two teams
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on March 01, 2008, 03:55:56 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 09:43:29 AM
    Quote from: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 09:37:43 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 08:41:51 AM
    Quote from: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 08:36:33 AM
    Quote from: mefor3again on February 29, 2008, 10:12:20 PM

    Head Coaches from other places
    Coach Goodemote-maybe they can convince him to reconsider
    Tom Murphy-(already mentioned) maybe, just maybe...
    Chris Downs-head coach at SLU-can't believe he would leave the team he has coming back, but would be a nice hire for Utica
    Tobin Anderson-head coach at Hamilton-could see him being interested
    Bob Montana-Head Coach at Union-just a hunch
    Rob Kornaker-Head Coach-SJF-same with Downs, can't see him leaving, but maybe.
    I don't know who, but I would guess a SUNYAC coach or two may want to look at Utica




    Just curious, but barring some strange circumstance, why would any of these coaches be interested in trading their job in to go to Utica?

    Murphy- Legend in the area. Hosed out of his head coaching job. Longtime Rival of UC when the rivalry was crazier than Fisher/naz is now. A return to the area as a head coach could be very interesting for him.

    Downs- Having coached at a school a few miles from there, that area is beautiful, but absolutely sucks if you ever need consumer goods or medical care. The -40 degree winters take a toll as well.

    Anderson- Hamilton has done some crappy things to coaches.

    Montana- Utica is a better job.



    BTW, Mets are on SNY today! Should be a great season!

    Murphy already had a head coaching job in Utica that he left to go work in D-1 with a bunch of his former players in a great area (Boston).  Plus, he's also not exactly at the age that you want to build a program around.

    As for the others, I just don't see someone leaving St. Lawrence, Hamilton, or Union to coach Utica.  While it may be that they've been at least as good, if not better, than those teams the past several years, I think the prestige of the school comes into play as well.  No disrespect meant to Utica, but it just doesn't have the same kind of reputation as those other schools.  I think that plays a big part when it comes to where people might or might not want to coach, especially if they're already well established somewhere.  Again, I'm not trying to dump on Utica, that's just how it seems to usually work.

    Murphy was forced out of Hamilton.

    The St. Lawrence job is nowhere near as good a job as Utica. Especially if you plan on having a family. It sucks living up there as a coach.

    UC as a school has made leaps and bounds over the last 5 years and continues to grow. Facilities are better, more programs, still a Syracuse degree, and athletics improving each year.



    UC,

    I'm wondering when you graduated, because Utica doesn't have any sort of tradition close to any of the other schools in the E8 or LL, except for maybe Vassar. In addition, I don't see any coach in the E8 leaving their post to take another job in the same league.

    You are correct in the fact the college has improved by leaps and bounds, and athletics is improving. That is all true, but that does not mean Utica is a more desirable job than the ones currently held by the coaches you mentioned.

    As far as Murphy goes, he's got it good as a DI assistant at Northeastern, and I don't expect to see him back on the sidelines as head coach, especially not at the D3 level.

    I think the more likely scenario is to see one of the assistants mentioned -- Gorski was my first thought, since he assisted Goodemote before moving on, but Driscoll is intriguing possibility as well. If not an assistant, maybe a head coach from a worse league, but I don't see anyone from E8, LL or SUNYAC taking the Utica job.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 04:26:33 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on March 01, 2008, 03:55:56 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 09:43:29 AM
    Quote from: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 09:37:43 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 08:41:51 AM
    Quote from: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 08:36:33 AM
    Quote from: mefor3again on February 29, 2008, 10:12:20 PM

    Head Coaches from other places
    Coach Goodemote-maybe they can convince him to reconsider
    Tom Murphy-(already mentioned) maybe, just maybe...
    Chris Downs-head coach at SLU-can't believe he would leave the team he has coming back, but would be a nice hire for Utica
    Tobin Anderson-head coach at Hamilton-could see him being interested
    Bob Montana-Head Coach at Union-just a hunch
    Rob Kornaker-Head Coach-SJF-same with Downs, can't see him leaving, but maybe.
    I don't know who, but I would guess a SUNYAC coach or two may want to look at Utica




    Just curious, but barring some strange circumstance, why would any of these coaches be interested in trading their job in to go to Utica?

    Murphy- Legend in the area. Hosed out of his head coaching job. Longtime Rival of UC when the rivalry was crazier than Fisher/naz is now. A return to the area as a head coach could be very interesting for him.

    Downs- Having coached at a school a few miles from there, that area is beautiful, but absolutely sucks if you ever need consumer goods or medical care. The -40 degree winters take a toll as well.

    Anderson- Hamilton has done some crappy things to coaches.

    Montana- Utica is a better job.



    BTW, Mets are on SNY today! Should be a great season!

    Murphy already had a head coaching job in Utica that he left to go work in D-1 with a bunch of his former players in a great area (Boston).  Plus, he's also not exactly at the age that you want to build a program around.

    As for the others, I just don't see someone leaving St. Lawrence, Hamilton, or Union to coach Utica.  While it may be that they've been at least as good, if not better, than those teams the past several years, I think the prestige of the school comes into play as well.  No disrespect meant to Utica, but it just doesn't have the same kind of reputation as those other schools.  I think that plays a big part when it comes to where people might or might not want to coach, especially if they're already well established somewhere.  Again, I'm not trying to dump on Utica, that's just how it seems to usually work.

    Murphy was forced out of Hamilton.

    The St. Lawrence job is nowhere near as good a job as Utica. Especially if you plan on having a family. It sucks living up there as a coach.

    UC as a school has made leaps and bounds over the last 5 years and continues to grow. Facilities are better, more programs, still a Syracuse degree, and athletics improving each year.



    UC,

    I'm wondering when you graduated, because Utica doesn't have any sort of tradition close to any of the other schools in the E8 or LL, except for maybe Vassar. In addition, I don't see any coach in the E8 leaving their post to take another job in the same league.

    You are correct in the fact the college has improved by leaps and bounds, and athletics is improving. That is all true, but that does not mean Utica is a more desirable job than the ones currently held by the coaches you mentioned.

    As far as Murphy goes, he's got it good as a DI assistant at Northeastern, and I don't expect to see him back on the sidelines as head coach, especially not at the D3 level.

    I think the more likely scenario is to see one of the assistants mentioned -- Gorski was my first thought, since he assisted Goodemote before moving on, but Driscoll is intriguing possibility as well. If not an assistant, maybe a head coach from a worse league, but I don't see anyone from E8, LL or SUNYAC taking the Utica job.

    Buck, you know me.

    Were you aware UC was D1 and had an NBA hall of famer as coach? Were you also aware of the UC/Hamilton days where it was standing room only and assistant coacges actually got in fistfights on the court?

    UC had about a decade prior to Goodie after coming back from being D1 where they were down. However they went back a long way with some quality ball against real good teams.

    St. Lawrence may have appeal in terms of the program, but the intangibles suck. You can't even go out because inevitably you will end up in the same establishments as your players. It is hundreds of miles before getting into any talent worth recruiting. It's either pay double the amount for groceries as the rest of the state, or drive to Syracuse to stock up. It's -40 out in the winter.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on March 01, 2008, 05:25:56 PM
    Congratulations to Nazareth. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 01, 2008, 05:45:59 PM
    As much as it kills me to say it, I think the best team in the E8 won the championship todday. Fisher played well, and really could/should have won. However, Naz did all they had to do, and held off FIsher in the late stages. Congratulations to Naz, Good luck in the Tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on March 01, 2008, 05:47:05 PM
    Congrats to Naz!!! Nice job
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on March 01, 2008, 08:27:59 PM
    Congratulations to Naz on their championship and automatic bid! Who went to the game? What's the story??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on March 01, 2008, 08:42:42 PM
    Rumor has it Coach Burton to UC--He is the man!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on March 01, 2008, 08:52:59 PM
    "St. Lawrence may have appeal in terms of the program, but the intangibles suck. You can't even go out because inevitably you will end up in the same establishments as your players. It is hundreds of miles before getting into any talent worth recruiting. It's either pay double the amount for groceries as the rest of the state, or drive to Syracuse to stock up. It's -40 out in the winter. "

    Actually, it hasn't been 40 below in a few years, you can thank global warming.  The North Country has it's advantages, lots of room, good schools (professors demand good schools, and have time to be on school boards), several of the coaches I know either live on the water or have camps on water.  

    You do learn to shop when you go to civilization, but there is a food coop that has high quality at decent prices.  Housing prices are some of the lowest in the country, so a $60K coach can live in a pretty nice place.  Catalog shopping is also a necessity, but we will soon have a Wal mart & a Lowes, so that will temper prices a bit.

    If you have kids & stay long enough, the SLU [& Clarkson] jobs have an incredible benefit, free tuition, worth about $200K over 4 years.  It also has a fantastic alumni network with deep pockets and a willingness to provide internships & jobs to SLU students and recent grads.

    SLU was a pretty nice stepping stone for Paulsen.

    In general, the quality of students in the surrounding area isn't all that important for college coaches, as many kids don't like to stay home.

    Utica has a few nice areas (New Hartford/Clinton) but the city is considered one of the most depressed in the country, and as someone pointed out, the snow (when the wind is bowing from the Northwest) is even worse than in Potsdam.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on March 01, 2008, 09:05:26 PM
    Bear--Thanks for the viewpoint--I wasnt aware of some points you made.I appreciate it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on March 01, 2008, 10:39:27 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 01, 2008, 04:26:33 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on March 01, 2008, 03:55:56 PM

    UC,

    I'm wondering when you graduated, because Utica doesn't have any sort of tradition close to any of the other schools in the E8 or LL, except for maybe Vassar. In addition, I don't see any coach in the E8 leaving their post to take another job in the same league.

    You are correct in the fact the college has improved by leaps and bounds, and athletics is improving. That is all true, but that does not mean Utica is a more desirable job than the ones currently held by the coaches you mentioned.

    As far as Murphy goes, he's got it good as a DI assistant at Northeastern, and I don't expect to see him back on the sidelines as head coach, especially not at the D3 level.

    I think the more likely scenario is to see one of the assistants mentioned -- Gorski was my first thought, since he assisted Goodemote before moving on, but Driscoll is intriguing possibility as well. If not an assistant, maybe a head coach from a worse league, but I don't see anyone from E8, LL or SUNYAC taking the Utica job.

    Buck, you know me.

    Were you aware UC was D1 and had an NBA hall of famer as coach? Were you also aware of the UC/Hamilton days where it was standing room only and assistant coacges actually got in fistfights on the court?

    UC had about a decade prior to Goodie after coming back from being D1 where they were down. However they went back a long way with some quality ball against real good teams.

    St. Lawrence may have appeal in terms of the program, but the intangibles suck. You can't even go out because inevitably you will end up in the same establishments as your players. It is hundreds of miles before getting into any talent worth recruiting. It's either pay double the amount for groceries as the rest of the state, or drive to Syracuse to stock up. It's -40 out in the winter.


    I wasn't aware I knew you, nor was I up on UC's tradition, thanks for the enlightenment on the latter, still puzzling over the former.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on March 01, 2008, 11:58:10 PM
    Academic wise, housing, St. Larwence wins...  I mean I don't think we are arguing what the better school is... but... bear you said it...quality of life is rough....I mean I grew up outside of the Capital district and people in my town overly relyed on wal mart... so you have to make a decision about what is important to you in life...in my opinion UC goes with a quality assistant from an E8 school
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 02, 2008, 12:38:24 AM
    Seems like that despite Naz's best efforts to give Fisher that game, the Cards just would not take Naz up on their offer. The Golden Flyers lead 62-59 with 4:17 left then, in typical Naz fashion, manage only two more points for the rest of the game yet still somehow win the game. Unbelievable.

    He had a good season, but I have a feeling Baltz is going to have trouble sleeping for awhile after going 0-for-9 and putting up a goose-egg in a one-point loss to your arch-rivals in a game that would have sent you to the NCAA's. That one will sit there for awhile.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 02, 2008, 04:52:38 AM
    i wouldnt say naz best efforts to give fisher the game.  Seeing how baltz was 0-9 and the rest of fishers guards were about 20% Fisher even being in the game would be the typical naz letting a team stay in the game. Too bad they couldnt have scored in the last 4 possessions to win the game but like i said before i naz is ready and is older therefore knows what it takes.  Ryan mcadam is way under appreciated in the league he is in my opinoin top 5 in talent easy as i said from day 1.   I think he is better than his brother as well. Anyways, great game to fisher who gave up the conf title for the first time since the conf tourny existance only by a point.  unfortunately they wont be getting an at large and will have to go to the ECAC's will they will probably get beat in the first round as they will have no motivation. Hopefully the younger guys on the team who played an extremely big part in the tourny will learn from this, understand what they have to work on and get better for next year.  As far as that goes next year is Fishers reallll down year having lost biegel and smalt.  There guards are solid but having there 2 back up bigs quit early in the year is gonig to kill them next year.  I think next year fisher will be 4th seed at most.


    Good luck to Naz in the tourny i think they have a shot at gettiing to the sweet 16, elite 8 at most.  hopefully stevens will get in but having seen them lose a lot in the past few games i dont think they will.  Even if they do they wont do much damange in the tourny.. I think Naz, the team who won it, has the best chance of doing damage in the NCAA's.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 02, 2008, 07:02:34 AM
    Quote from: thebear on March 01, 2008, 08:52:59 PM
    "St. Lawrence may have appeal in terms of the program, but the intangibles suck. You can't even go out because inevitably you will end up in the same establishments as your players. It is hundreds of miles before getting into any talent worth recruiting. It's either pay double the amount for groceries as the rest of the state, or drive to Syracuse to stock up. It's -40 out in the winter. "

    Actually, it hasn't been 40 below in a few years, you can thank global warming.  The North Country has it's advantages, lots of room, good schools (professors demand good schools, and have time to be on school boards), several of the coaches I know either live on the water or have camps on water.  

    You do learn to shop when you go to civilization, but there is a food coop that has high quality at decent prices.  Housing prices are some of the lowest in the country, so a $60K coach can live in a pretty nice place.  Catalog shopping is also a necessity, but we will soon have a Wal mart & a Lowes, so that will temper prices a bit.

    If you have kids & stay long enough, the SLU [& Clarkson] jobs have an incredible benefit, free tuition, worth about $200K over 4 years.  It also has a fantastic alumni network with deep pockets and a willingness to provide internships & jobs to SLU students and recent grads.

    SLU was a pretty nice stepping stone for Paulsen.

    In general, the quality of students in the surrounding area isn't all that important for college coaches, as many kids don't like to stay home.

    Utica has a few nice areas (New Hartford/Clinton) but the city is considered one of the most depressed in the country, and as someone pointed out, the snow (when the wind is bowing from the Northwest) is even worse than in Potsdam.

    Oh it does have some advantages no doubt. I still have a place on the water.

    However, it was -40 in the Burg (go hit up donut king when you are there) just a few years ago!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 02, 2008, 07:07:07 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 02, 2008, 04:52:38 AM
    i wouldnt say naz best efforts to give fisher the game.  Seeing how baltz was 0-9 and the rest of fishers guards were about 20% Fisher even being in the game would be the typical naz letting a team stay in the game. Too bad they couldnt have scored in the last 4 possessions to win the game but like i said before i naz is ready and is older therefore knows what it takes.  Ryan mcadam is way under appreciated in the league he is in my opinoin top 5 in talent easy as i said from day 1.   I think he is better than his brother as well. Anyways, great game to fisher who gave up the conf title for the first time since the conf tourny existance only by a point.  unfortunately they wont be getting an at large and will have to go to the ECAC's will they will probably get beat in the first round as they will have no motivation. Hopefully the younger guys on the team who played an extremely big part in the tourny will learn from this, understand what they have to work on and get better for next year.  As far as that goes next year is Fishers reallll down year having lost biegel and smalt.  There guards are solid but having there 2 back up bigs quit early in the year is gonig to kill them next year.  I think next year fisher will be 4th seed at most.


    Good luck to Naz in the tourny i think they have a shot at gettiing to the sweet 16, elite 8 at most.  hopefully stevens will get in but having seen them lose a lot in the past few games i dont think they will.  Even if they do they wont do much damange in the tourny.. I think Naz, the team who won it, has the best chance of doing damage in the NCAA's.

    I think Naz will get blown out in the first round. They shouldn't even had made the conference tourney and aren't very good.

    The late season losses hurt Stevens, but with the top 5 in the E8 being so closely paired, it may help their SOS. Combined with 20 wins, they have a good shot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 02, 2008, 07:07:25 AM
    Quote from: superman57 on March 01, 2008, 11:58:10 PM
    Academic wise, housing, St. Larwence wins...  I mean I don't think we are arguing what the better school is... but... bear you said it...quality of life is rough....I mean I grew up outside of the Capital district and people in my town overly relyed on wal mart... so you have to make a decision about what is important to you in life...in my opinion UC goes with a quality assistant from an E8 school

    Which town were you in?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 02, 2008, 09:08:43 AM
    Congrats NAZ, make us proud in the tourney......... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 02, 2008, 09:31:55 AM
    I can see Naz winning a game in the tourny. Maybe an outside shot at winning two. They have some shooters, and if they get hot they can beat some teams. I have said all season that I think Naz is the best team in the conference, and they probably deserved to win.

    I was excited to see that Fisher's young players did such a good job in the E8 tourny. Good signs for next year. I think the quality of team that Fisher will put on the court next year will be all about who Kornaker can get on the recruiting trail. They have a lot of good young guards, and if he can go out and get a real quality big man, then Fisher can get back to where Fisher fans are used to seeing them. In my mind that should be where Kornaker focus his recruiting efforts.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 02, 2008, 09:52:52 AM
    Does anyone know when the ECAC pairings come out? I am guessing soon after the NCAA pairings?

    I will be interested to see how Fisher plays in the ECAC's. I don't know how much motivation they will have, but it could be a great chance to get some younger players more experience, and to get the seniors a win in their last game. Could be a nice way for them to go out.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on March 02, 2008, 10:14:42 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 02, 2008, 07:07:25 AM
    Quote from: superman57 on March 01, 2008, 11:58:10 PM
    Academic wise, housing, St. Larwence wins...  I mean I don't think we are arguing what the better school is... but... bear you said it...quality of life is rough....I mean I grew up outside of the Capital district and people in my town overly relyed on wal mart... so you have to make a decision about what is important to you in life...in my opinion UC goes with a quality assistant from an E8 school

    Which town were you in?

    I grew up in Amsterdam....not the north country but basicly reliant on the great and Holy Wal Mart
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on March 02, 2008, 10:41:12 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 02, 2008, 07:02:34 AM

    Oh it does have some advantages no doubt. I still have a place on the water.

    However, it was -40 in the Burg (go hit up donut king when you are there) just a few years ago!

    Sadly, I think Donut King isn't the epic greasy experience it once was.  However, I still think it's the only place in Ogdensburg you can eat at 3 am, and for that I'm eternally grateful.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 02, 2008, 10:44:41 AM
    Quote from: bamm on March 02, 2008, 10:41:12 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 02, 2008, 07:02:34 AM

    Oh it does have some advantages no doubt. I still have a place on the water.

    However, it was -40 in the Burg (go hit up donut king when you are there) just a few years ago!

    Sadly, I think Donut King isn't the epic greasy experience it once was.  However, I still think it's the only place in Ogdensburg you can eat at 3 am, and for that I'm eternally grateful.


    I am thankful that there is a place where one can get good poutine!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 02, 2008, 10:45:30 AM
    Quote from: superman57 on March 02, 2008, 10:14:42 AM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 02, 2008, 07:07:25 AM
    Quote from: superman57 on March 01, 2008, 11:58:10 PM
    Academic wise, housing, St. Larwence wins...  I mean I don't think we are arguing what the better school is... but... bear you said it...quality of life is rough....I mean I grew up outside of the Capital district and people in my town overly relyed on wal mart... so you have to make a decision about what is important to you in life...in my opinion UC goes with a quality assistant from an E8 school

    Which town were you in?

    I grew up in Amsterdam....not the north country but basicly reliant on the great and Holy Wal Mart

    It is fairly similar. I bought most of my things online and waited for the shipments.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 02, 2008, 10:46:17 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on March 02, 2008, 09:52:52 AM
    Does anyone know when the ECAC pairings come out? I am guessing soon after the NCAA pairings?

    I will be interested to see how Fisher plays in the ECAC's. I don't know how much motivation they will have, but it could be a great chance to get some younger players more experience, and to get the seniors a win in their last game. Could be a nice way for them to go out.



    Will be interested to see how they play. A lot of the best teams in the ECAC lose early because they are crushed from missing NCAA.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on March 02, 2008, 10:47:09 AM


    I think Naz will get blown out in the first round. They shouldn't even had made the conference tourney and aren't very good.

    [/quote]


    Ok, UCGrad, you can stop being bitter about the Naz win at Utica and Utica not getting in the conference tourney. Maybe if they took care of their business, like Naz, Stevens, IC and Fisher, they would've been in the conference tourney. Grow up, and quit your childish whining.


    As for getting blown out in first round, or going sweet 16, it all depends on pairings/seedings. See where they get sent, who they have to play. As we all know the d3 tourney won't make you travel far to play teams you "should" be playing, rather they will keep you in your area and play other teams deserving of being in the tourney. So Naz could be playing UR, St Lawrence, Plattsburgh, Clarkson. So depending on who they get matched up with early will depend on how far they go. I think they are very capable of going sweet 16/elite 8, but also capable of losing first round. We will find out who they play come Monday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 02, 2008, 10:51:07 AM
    St. Lawrence will not make the NCAA's. They're 17-9 and lost in the semis of the LL Tourney to Clarkson. They are no more deserving than Ithaca to make the NCAA's (same record, Ithaca may even have more quality wins). St. Lawrence should be watching the tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 02, 2008, 10:56:24 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on March 02, 2008, 10:47:09 AM


    I think Naz will get blown out in the first round. They shouldn't even had made the conference tourney and aren't very good.



    Ok, UCGrad, you can stop being bitter about the Naz win at Utica and Utica not getting in the conference tourney. Maybe if they took care of their business, like Naz, Stevens, IC and Fisher, they would've been in the conference tourney. Grow up, and quit your childish whining.


    [/quote]

    You mean like the teams they easily defeated in the second semester? You mean like having a better second semester than all of those teams? You mean like winning 8 of their last 10?

    I'm not complaining about UC not getting in. I think they had a wonderful season and didn't say boo about it. I'm just stating that naz looked pathetic in both games against UC. Maybe it was just the match up, but there wasn't a single thing in either of those games that looked good for naz besides shooting from the charity stripe (it was the only way they could score). They couldn't play D for their lives and looked lost on the court.

    If the two teams played again today, UC would easily dispatch them again. They aren't very good and they are not well coached.

    Fisher, Ithaca, and Stevens all had more talent than naz. They are probably the worst team that could represent the conference.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 02, 2008, 10:57:25 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on March 02, 2008, 10:51:07 AM
    St. Lawrence will not make the NCAA's. They're 17-9 and lost in the semis of the LL Tourney to Clarkson. They are no more deserving than Ithaca to make the NCAA's (same record, Ithaca may even have more quality wins). St. Lawrence should be watching the tournament.

    I agree. 19 wins is about the lowest that a team from this area could expect a bid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on March 02, 2008, 12:25:48 PM
    lets remember UofR is still here... chances are Naz gets fed to UofR in the second round
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on March 02, 2008, 06:00:36 PM

    [/quote]

    I grew up in Amsterdam....not the north country but basicly reliant on the great and Holy Wal Mart
    [/quote]

    As did I.  However, it was pre-WalMart.  Back in the day of Nichols, Mortans and Millers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on March 02, 2008, 07:31:12 PM
    Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on March 02, 2008, 06:00:36 PM


    I grew up in Amsterdam....not the north country but basicly reliant on the great and Holy Wal Mart
    [/quote]

    As did I.  However, it was pre-WalMart.  Back in the day of Nichols, Mortans and Millers.
    [/quote]

    I was there for Millers and Nichols...don't remember Mortans... I miss Millers... My dad was friends with the family... Ok, if I say anymore I will be rambling
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on March 02, 2008, 09:01:16 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on March 02, 2008, 12:38:24 AM
    Seems like that despite Naz's best efforts to give Fisher that game, the Cards just would not take Naz up on their offer. The Golden Flyers lead 62-59 with 4:17 left then, in typical Naz fashion, manage only two more points for the rest of the game yet still somehow win the game. Unbelievable.

    He had a good season, but I have a feeling Baltz is going to have trouble sleeping for awhile after going 0-for-9 and putting up a goose-egg in a one-point loss to your arch-rivals in a game that would have sent you to the NCAA's. That one will sit there for awhile.

    Seeing that he has two more years to make up for it I'm sure he'll get by. There is enough blame to go around. Fisher missed numerous "chippy's" in the first and second half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on March 03, 2008, 04:06:40 AM
    gb I usually agree with everything you say, but SLU did have head to head wins over B-port, Oswego, Bates and Ithaca.  Neither I believe will get in, but in my opinion SLU is a little more deserving. Don't forget non-region losses I believe do not count against you so the losses down in FL don't count for a regional bid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on March 03, 2008, 06:35:57 AM
    Has UC signed Coach Burton yet?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8insider on March 03, 2008, 09:16:56 AM
    If the two teams played again today, UC would easily dispatch them again. They aren't very good and they are not well coached.

    Fisher, Ithaca, and Stevens all had more talent than naz. They are probably the worst team that could represent the conference.


    You obviously know nothing about Empire 8 basketball. Nazareth has a 15-3 record away from home, no small feat. They also have three players who are arguably first-team all-conference type of players.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 03, 2008, 09:24:42 AM
    Quote from: e8insider on March 03, 2008, 09:16:56 AM
    If the two teams played again today, UC would easily dispatch them again. They aren't very good and they are not well coached.

    Fisher, Ithaca, and Stevens all had more talent than naz. They are probably the worst team that could represent the conference.


    You obviously know nothing about Empire 8 basketball. Nazareth has a 15-3 record away from home, no small feat. They also have three players who are arguably first-team all-conference type of players.

    I've been directly involved since '99. Care to try again?

    Naz is notoriously undisciplined street ballers. They had 1 player that impressed me this year, and even he only turned it on at the end of the game. I don't care what their road record was. They don't play D, they are streaky, and don't have guys that can consistently give you 100%. They step up for Fisher, and got a Stevens team at a time when they were not playing good ball.

    They have had these "first team all conference type" players for years, and had one flash in the pan with them. They had D1 transfers that couldn't win.

    Good for them for having a strong weekend with favorable match ups. Savor it, because you won't see it again for a while.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 03, 2008, 09:38:25 AM
    Quote from: with age comes? on March 03, 2008, 04:06:40 AM
    gb I usually agree with everything you say, but SLU did have head to head wins over B-port, Oswego, Bates and Ithaca.  Neither I believe will get in, but in my opinion SLU is a little more deserving. Don't forget non-region losses I believe do not count against you so the losses down in FL don't count for a regional bid.

    The wins against Brockport and Ithaca are deceiving. SLU beat Brockport right in the beginning of January (if memory serves) while they were in the midst of a bad losing streak and they were finally getting all of their players back. You and I both know the result is likely different if they play that game in the middle of February. And, for the 4,000th time, SLU beat Ithaca in OT when Ithaca was playing without Sean Burton and has no real backup PG. Congrats. If you think the result would have been the same with one of the best players in the region in the lineup, I have a bridge downstate that I'm looking to sell.

    I was simply responding to someone who was listing teams that Naz may play in the 1st round and mentioned SLU. I was pointing out that SLU will not be in the tournament. I think IC and SLU have similar resumes (which they do). Don't think I said much beyond that. I think you're nitpicking a little bit here.

    As far as the other topics on this board go, I fall somewhere in the middle when it comes to Naz. I don't think they're nearly as bad as UCgrad makes them out to be, but I don't think they're as good as FisherDynasty thinks, either. We all know this game is about matchups. Ithaca and Utica are just bad matchups for Nazareth, the same way Fisher is a good matchup for Naz. Naz has their blemishes, as did every team in the E8 this year, but they do some things pretty well, things that if you're not prepared for they'll make you pay for. Not every team has three different players who can put 20 on you in a given game. But not every team looks allergic to defense 80% of the time and goes out of their way to blow games they have no reasons losing. Again, every E8 team had its issues this year. Naz just happened to be the team that survived (appropriate word) the E8 Tournament. Congrats to them and I hope they represent the conference well in the NCAA's.

    Title: Prospects for Hartwick 2008-09 and next four years
    Post by: 32 Gold and Blue on March 03, 2008, 10:19:55 AM
    Hartwick hasn't performed well in the league during Coach Culpo's tenure.  Are they improving?  How well are they recruiting?  What are the prospects for Hartwick basketball for next season and the following three?  I'm hoping for substantial improvement.  Will they be competitive in the near future for a conference crown?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8insider on March 03, 2008, 10:22:18 AM
    All I know is that they are the best team in the Empire 8 and they deserve the automatic bid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on March 03, 2008, 11:05:43 AM
    gb- I think we agree in principal.  None of the teams mentionned may get in, all I'm saying that if you were on the selection committee- SLU has head to head wins.  I don't think there going to say that Harris was just back at B-port that's why SLU won or that Bostic wasn't up to form at Ithaca, or that Oswego just had a bad day.  They would say look at these teams - SLU won the head to head match-ups.  When in fact probably B-port would win now, Ithaca would be extremely close and Oswego would too.  Again call me a nit-picker but I bet there is a lot of that on the selection committee.  You've got to make decisions on teams that are so close in talent, record, and resume that the "nitpicking" may be what decides who is in and who plays golf during spring break??! ;D ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 03, 2008, 11:12:49 AM
    Quote from: e8insider on March 03, 2008, 10:22:18 AM
    All I know is that they are the best team in the Empire 8 and they deserve the automatic bid.

    The pomposity emanating from that post stings the nostrils. Look, Naz escaped from Ithaca as the E8 Tourney champs. If the best team in the E8 is a team that hit 2 FG's over the final 8 minutes (and no FG's in the final 4:17) of the E8 Final to "secure" the victory, then maybe this conference wasn't nearly as good as I thought it was. Let's be real about this. Naz tried giving that game to Fisher, but Fisher just wouldn't take it. You win it, no you win it, no you win it...

    I see that you're a student at Naz so I can't fault you for being a bit over-excited for your team right now. However, if you were what your handle purports to be, an "E8 Insider," then you'd know that there was no "best team" in the conference this season. The best team changed depending on which weekend you were asking. But you already knew that, I bet. I'm sure you'll be returning to the woodwork from whence you came soon enough.

    Quote from: with age comes? on March 03, 2008, 11:05:43 AM
    gb- I think we agree in principal.  None of the teams mentionned may get in, all I'm saying that if you were on the selection committee- SLU has head to head wins.  I don't think there going to say that Harris was just back at B-port that's why SLU won or that Bostic wasn't up to form at Ithaca, or that Oswego just had a bad day.  They would say look at these teams - SLU won the head to head match-ups.  When in fact probably B-port would win now, Ithaca would be extremely close and Oswego would too.  Again call me a nit-picker but I bet there is a lot of that on the selection committee.  You've got to make decisions on teams that are so close in talent, record, and resume that the "nitpicking" may be what decides who is in and who plays golf during spring break??! ;D ;D

    I agree that the committee would look at those things, mainly because they have neither the time nor energy to get the facts. But to say "that's how the committee does it, therefore it is correct" is flawed reasoning. And if you really think that a team that needed OT to beat Ithaca minus Burton would stay close when he was in the lineup, then we're going to have to agree to disagree.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on March 03, 2008, 11:21:27 AM
    Ok GB I surrender- never argue with a future lawyer! :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 03, 2008, 11:29:07 AM
    Quote from: with age comes? on March 03, 2008, 11:21:27 AM
    Ok GB I surrender- never argue with a future lawyer! :D

    Not trying to beat you into submission or "get the last word." It's fine to have a difference in opinion without making it personal. As you mentioned, I think you and I agree on most things. But where's the fun in agreeing on everything all the time.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum03 on March 03, 2008, 12:55:20 PM
    at first glance at the bracket, the hardest one is the Amherst/Plattsburgh St bracket. Easiest road to Sweet 16, Rochester.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on March 03, 2008, 01:13:43 PM
    Naz is in the Amherst, Plattsburgh State bracket ouch.......
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cards7580 on March 03, 2008, 01:15:07 PM
    "...at first glance at the bracket, the hardest one is the Amherst/Plattsburgh St bracket. Easiest road to Sweet 16, Rochester...."

    Go Middlebury  ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on March 03, 2008, 01:27:35 PM
    Quote from: Cards7580 on March 03, 2008, 01:15:07 PM
    "...at first glance at the bracket, the hardest one is the Amherst/Plattsburgh St bracket. Easiest road to Sweet 16, Rochester...."

    Go Middlebury  ;D

    Well, if that's the way you're gonna be...GO KINGS  :D

    Besides, if I read the bracket right, Plattsburgh and UR could meet in the Final Four.  Don't you want to see that?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 03, 2008, 01:43:59 PM
    Naz can beat P. state but not Amherst, sucks to be in that bracket.

    Rochester's bracket looks weak, unfortuately they have to face the toughest team in that bracket in the 2nd round. If they get by that there goin to the Final 4.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on March 03, 2008, 02:51:51 PM
    Fisher has the #4 seed in the ECAC tourney and will host #5 seed Vassar at time tbd.....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on March 03, 2008, 02:55:43 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 03, 2008, 01:43:59 PM
    Naz can beat P. state but not Amherst, sucks to be in that bracket.

    Rochester's bracket looks weak, unfortuately they have to face the toughest team in that bracket in the 2nd round. If they get by that there goin to the Final 4.

    What makes UMD, Ursinus, Va Wesleyan, Gettysburg, and Middlebury weaker than Platts, Amherst and Bowdoin?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cards7580 on March 03, 2008, 03:11:04 PM
    "...Naz can beat P. state but not Amherst, sucks to be in that bracket. ..."

    In your dreams   ::)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on March 03, 2008, 03:25:46 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 03, 2008, 09:24:42 AM
    Quote from: e8insider on March 03, 2008, 09:16:56 AM
    If the two teams played again today, UC would easily dispatch them again. They aren't very good and they are not well coached.

    Fisher, Ithaca, and Stevens all had more talent than naz. They are probably the worst team that could represent the conference.


    You obviously know nothing about Empire 8 basketball. Nazareth has a 15-3 record away from home, no small feat. They also have three players who are arguably first-team all-conference type of players.

    I've been directly involved since '99. Care to try again?

    Naz is notoriously undisciplined street ballers. They had 1 player that impressed me this year, and even he only turned it on at the end of the game. I don't care what their road record was. They don't play D, they are streaky, and don't have guys that can consistently give you 100%. They step up for Fisher, and got a Stevens team at a time when they were not playing good ball.

    They have had these "first team all conference type" players for years, and had one flash in the pan with them. They had D1 transfers that couldn't win.

    Good for them for having a strong weekend with favorable match ups. Savor it, because you won't see it again for a while.




    UCGrad, you need to calm down and quit smoking whatever it is you're smoking. Before the Conference Tourney we talked about how 'wide open' it was and how any of the 4 teams could emerge as the winner. That means that all 4 teams are very good (those 4 teams don't include UC, by the way) and it wouldn't be any surprise if any of them won, or if any of them lost. But now that Naz has won, people are complaining how they are the worst team to show for the conference in the NCAAs, and how they are the least talented team in the conference. Give me a f-ing break! FisherDynasty is the only one who respects Naz, and you, UCGrad, are just going WAY overboard. The Naz players stepped up when they needed to and won the close games that they've been struggling to hold on to all year. Give them their credit and quit whining, they are OBVIOUSLY the best team in the conference.

    And you calling naz "notoriously undisciplined streetballers," the only 'notoriously undisciplined streetballer' in the e-8 is mr. Doug Herring (w/a chucking, not hitting, Burton close behind), can't wait to see him run wild next season without Goodemote at the helm controlling him.

    And I wouldn't be surprised if Nazareth won the conference again next season, so "savor it, b/c you won't see it again for a while," i wouldn't speak so fast. you might regret saying that.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on March 03, 2008, 05:49:34 PM
    e8...I agreed with everything you said...until you put the "OBVIOUSLY" out there.

    Logic doesn't follow that you say (paraphrasing) "any of the 4 teams could have won the whole thing and we wouldn't have been surprised" and then say "naz is OBVIOUSLY the best team".  That would imply that only Naz should have won, and that it would be surprising if they didn't.

    Truthfully, there was no "BEST" team this year in the true sense of the word, and any objective person would say that.

    Stevens was supposed to be the best all year, but choked down the stretch.
    SJF was the defending champs but lost in the conference finals.
    Ithaca won the regular season crown but lost at home in the semi's.

    And Naz, won the whole thing, but also did lose 2 out of the 3 to Stevens (we all know what happened, but still, it was 2 out of 3) AND was swept in the regular season by Ithaca.  Going into the tourney they were 2-4 against the rest of the field.  Hardly the record you'd expect from the team that was OBVIOUSLY the best team in the conference.

    Naz certainly deserved the bid because they put it together in the tournament, but just because they won the tournament doesn't make them the best team in the league..

    I mean, John Jay is 13-15 and a conference tourney winner.  Naz > John Jay, but the point is, winning the conference tourney doesn't make you the best team.  It does mean you played the best basketball at the right time, and that is what conference tournaments are all about and thats the nature of 1 and done tournaments.  Different from professional where there are series, the element of only having 1 game means that sometimes upsets happen.

    Ex:  In Division 1...Memphis is clearly the best team in the C-USA right now.  Say they make the C-USA championship game, and then lose to Southern Miss, a team who they beat 83-47 and 76-67 in the regular season.  There is no way a basketball analyst would go on tv and say "Southern Miss is the best team in C-USA".


    Again, I don't mean this as a knock on Naz.  I saw them play many times this season and think they can make a run up until Amherst, who I think wins it all again this year.  And I hope Naz does very well in the tournament.  But you are getting close with the OBVIOUSLY to making it seem like Naz was just head and shoulders a better team than Ithaca, Fisher, and Stevens, when that wasn't the case.
    Title: Re: Prospects for Hartwick 2008-09 and next four years
    Post by: scooterman on March 03, 2008, 06:05:47 PM
    Does Harwick play b-ball? Thought they were a soccer school--Does anyone actually care?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 03, 2008, 06:16:32 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on March 03, 2008, 03:25:46 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on March 03, 2008, 09:24:42 AM
    Quote from: e8insider on March 03, 2008, 09:16:56 AM
    If the two teams played again today, UC would easily dispatch them again. They aren't very good and they are not well coached.

    Fisher, Ithaca, and Stevens all had more talent than naz. They are probably the worst team that could represent the conference.


    You obviously know nothing about Empire 8 basketball. Nazareth has a 15-3 record away from home, no small feat. They also have three players who are arguably first-team all-conference type of players.

    I've been directly involved since '99. Care to try again?

    Naz is notoriously undisciplined street ballers. They had 1 player that impressed me this year, and even he only turned it on at the end of the game. I don't care what their road record was. They don't play D, they are streaky, and don't have guys that can consistently give you 100%. They step up for Fisher, and got a Stevens team at a time when they were not playing good ball.

    They have had these "first team all conference type" players for years, and had one flash in the pan with them. They had D1 transfers that couldn't win.

    Good for them for having a strong weekend with favorable match ups. Savor it, because you won't see it again for a while.




    .

    And you calling naz "notoriously undisciplined streetballers," the only 'notoriously undisciplined streetballer' in the e-8 is mr. Doug Herring (w/a chucking, not hitting, Burton close behind), can't wait to see him run wild next season without Goodemote at the helm controlling him.




    You mean 4th in the conference in assists Doug Herring?

    Run along and come back when you have a clue.
    Title: Re: Prospects for Hartwick 2008-09 and next four years
    Post by: 32 Gold and Blue on March 03, 2008, 07:11:03 PM
    I thought that the were rebuilding.  Do Hartwick people care?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on March 03, 2008, 07:46:13 PM
    Then who is (are) the 'notorious undisciplined streetballers' on naz? You certainly don't mean 2nd in the NCAA in assists Corey McAdam?
    Title: Re: Prospects for Hartwick 2008-09 and next four years
    Post by: superman57 on March 03, 2008, 08:07:14 PM
    no one really cares about Hartwick....sorry
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: MHoops on March 03, 2008, 08:35:48 PM
    It looks like Stevens picked up the #1 seed in the ECAC Metro division and will host the College of Staten Island Wednesday at 8pm.   The Fisher/Vassar game is at 8pm as well.   

    Fisher and Vassar's common opponents:

      Vassar split with Hobart W 78-73, L 56-57;  Fisher lost to Hobart 80-84 
      Vassar beat Hartwick 58-55;  Fisher beat Hartwick 69-59, 70-61
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 03, 2008, 08:59:16 PM
    Naz guys, quit the whole "chip on your shoulder" act. Everyone in here, save UCgrad, respects your team. Corey and Ryan McAdam are very good players and Canori can fill it up with the best of them when he's on. However, an easy way to alienate others is to come on here and spit this "Naz is obviously the best team" garbage that has been going on today. When you say things like FisherDynasty is the only one that respects Naz and then start taking potshots at two of the best players in the conference (Burton and Herring), you detract from your argument and just sound petty.

    Most everyone on this board hopes Naz does well in the NCAA's. Just stop acting like the kid who just got a shiny BMW but is mad at his friends because he's not getting enough compliments about it. Be happy, don't be obnoxious.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on March 03, 2008, 09:24:45 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on March 03, 2008, 05:49:34 PM
    e8...I agreed with everything you said...until you put the "OBVIOUSLY" out there.

    Logic doesn't follow that you say (paraphrasing) "any of the 4 teams could have won the whole thing and we wouldn't have been surprised" and then say "naz is OBVIOUSLY the best team".  That would imply that only Naz should have won, and that it would be surprising if they didn't.

    Truthfully, there was no "BEST" team this year in the true sense of the word, and any objective person would say that.

    Stevens was supposed to be the best all year, but choked down the stretch.
    SJF was the defending champs but lost in the conference finals.
    Ithaca won the regular season crown but lost at home in the semi's.

    And Naz, won the whole thing, but also did lose 2 out of the 3 to Stevens (we all know what happened, but still, it was 2 out of 3) AND was swept in the regular season by Ithaca.  Going into the tourney they were 2-4 against the rest of the field.  Hardly the record you'd expect from the team that was OBVIOUSLY the best team in the conference.

    Naz certainly deserved the bid because they put it together in the tournament, but just because they won the tournament doesn't make them the best team in the league..

    I mean, John Jay is 13-15 and a conference tourney winner.  Naz > John Jay, but the point is, winning the conference tourney doesn't make you the best team.  It does mean you played the best basketball at the right time, and that is what conference tournaments are all about and thats the nature of 1 and done tournaments.  Different from professional where there are series, the element of only having 1 game means that sometimes upsets happen.

    Ex:  In Division 1...Memphis is clearly the best team in the C-USA right now.  Say they make the C-USA championship game, and then lose to Southern Miss, a team who they beat 83-47 and 76-67 in the regular season.  There is no way a basketball analyst would go on tv and say "Southern Miss is the best team in C-USA".


    Again, I don't mean this as a knock on Naz.  I saw them play many times this season and think they can make a run up until Amherst, who I think wins it all again this year.  And I hope Naz does very well in the tournament.  But you are getting close with the OBVIOUSLY to making it seem like Naz was just head and shoulders a better team than Ithaca, Fisher, and Stevens, when that wasn't the case.


    I agree with Cyclone, and i apologize for going overboard. I also hope NAz does well and they represent the e-8 well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on March 03, 2008, 09:31:43 PM
    Also, hats off to senior who have played their final games. As far as i can tell RIT isn't in any ECAC tourney so congrats to Colin Roy and Kenny Gethers on fine careers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on March 03, 2008, 09:35:16 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on March 03, 2008, 08:59:16 PM
    Naz guys, quit the whole "chip on your shoulder" act. Everyone in here, save UCgrad, respects your team. Corey and Ryan McAdam are very good players and Canori can fill it up with the best of them when he's on. However, an easy way to alienate others is to come on here and spit this "Naz is obviously the best team" garbage that has been going on today. When you say things like FisherDynasty is the only one that respects Naz and then start taking potshots at two of the best players in the conference (Burton and Herring), you detract from your argument and just sound petty.

    Most everyone on this board hopes Naz does well in the NCAA's. Just stop acting like the kid who just got a shiny BMW but is mad at his friends because he's not getting enough compliments about it. Be happy, don't be obnoxious.



    This is quite possibly the most painful thing that I will ever say...But I do want Naz to do well...it hurts to say this as a Fisher fan...as Naz is one of the only teams in the world that I will fully route against... but saying that what is good for the e8 is good for fisher...So go Naz... (i think i just threw up in my mouth_
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on March 03, 2008, 09:36:34 PM
    I didn't get to see..I know Stevens is the #1 seed in the metro.  And Naz is NCAA.  I saw Fisher is in their ECAC as well.  What about Ithaca?  Seedings/Times


    It's nice to see 3(4 w/Ithaca) teams in the post season.  Stevens controls their own destiny.


    Maybe they'll be favorites...since they are the #1 seed, they don't have to leave the comforts of home, where they are undefeated.  We know these Ducks hate traveling.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on March 03, 2008, 09:56:33 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on March 03, 2008, 09:36:34 PM
    I didn't get to see..I know Stevens is the #1 seed in the metro.  And Naz is NCAA.  I saw Fisher is in their ECAC as well.  What about Ithaca?  Seedings/Times


    It's nice to see 3(4 w/Ithaca) teams in the post season.  Stevens controls their own destiny.


    Maybe they'll be favorites...since they are the #1 seed, they don't have to leave the comforts of home, where they are undefeated.  We know these Ducks hate traveling.

    I really hope the fisher boys can put it together and win ECACs. It would be nice to see those seniors go out on a little bit of a high note, and get those underclassmen some postseason experience.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 03, 2008, 10:00:45 PM
    Cyclone, per one of the ICTV reports during IC's semi-final game vs Fisher, Ithaca was not eligible to compete in the ECAC's this season. Apparently, the story goes, Ithaca came back a day early from Thanksgiving Break to start practice. The one extra practice constituted an "extra week" of practice and, thus, the team went over the maximum allowed weeks of practices as regulated by the ECAC. This is what the report said so I apologize for any inaccuracies, complete or partial.

    Normally, I think ECAC's are a good chance to get more playing time together, improve, etc. However, I think there'd be diminishing returns if the Bombers were to lace 'em up for this year's version of the NIT. It'd be their third straight year in ECAC's and I just don't think they'd be motivated after winning the regular season conference title and then having their season end the way it did. I think Utica would have stood to benefit most from this year's E8 Tourney. The Pios would have had a chance to face teams who made it into the E8 Tourney (Fisher) and measure themselves against other top teams in the region (SLU, B'port, Oswego, Vassar, etc.) that everyone had just assumed were better than Utica. Plus, they're a young team that will get better with each game. Unfortunately, like IC, Utica had too many practices and was ineligible. I hope Fisher shows well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on March 03, 2008, 10:13:28 PM
    Thanks for the info GB


    I know this is Stevens first trip to the ECAC (I think last year's NCAA was their first post season tourney of any kind) so I guess it could help them, particularly since most of the team is back...tho losing Farid and Williams at the end of the season will hurt.  Top 2 rebounders...leader in assist...leader in blocks(Ayodele, 3rd senior)...2 of top 4 scorers. 


    Hope they play well...and hope that coach has done some recruiting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jasper on March 03, 2008, 11:15:32 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on March 03, 2008, 10:00:45 PM
    Cyclone, per one of the ICTV reports during IC's semi-final game vs Fisher, Ithaca was not eligible to compete in the ECAC's this season. Apparently, the story goes, Ithaca came back a day early from Thanksgiving Break to start practice. The one extra practice constituted an "extra week" of practice and, thus, the team went over the maximum allowed weeks of practices as regulated by the ECAC. This is what the report said so I apologize for any inaccuracies, complete or partial.

    Normally, I think ECAC's are a good chance to get more playing time together, improve, etc. However, I think there'd be diminishing returns if the Bombers were to lace 'em up for this year's version of the NIT. It'd be their third straight year in ECAC's and I just don't think they'd be motivated after winning the regular season conference title and then having their season end the way it did. I think Utica would have stood to benefit most from this year's E8 Tourney. The Pios would have had a chance to face teams who made it into the E8 Tourney (Fisher) and measure themselves against other top teams in the region (SLU, B'port, Oswego, Vassar, etc.) that everyone had just assumed were better than Utica. Plus, they're a young team that will get better with each game. Unfortunately, like IC, Utica had too many practices and was ineligible. I hope Fisher shows well.

    I played college sports and i'll tell you one thing if my regular season ended in a 20 point butt kickin on my home floor you bet your bottom dollar my butt would want to play one more game for a chance to get that taste outta my mouth. I'm pretty sure Burton and company being the competitors they are feel the same way.




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 04, 2008, 12:37:57 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on March 03, 2008, 07:46:13 PM
    Then who is (are) the 'notorious undisciplined streetballers' on naz? You certainly don't mean 2nd in the NCAA in assists Corey McAdam?

    He is the only one I would take on my team.

    Look, this year is slightly different for naz. They pulled it together for a weekend at the right time. But I have seen them for years, and in nearly a decade they have been a bunch of guys playing for themselves. A single season does not change the trend. They keep it up for a while and they may get a different rep. However, they have been a team with "first team all conference" players that have underachieved because of lack of D, poor decisions, and playing street ball for nearly a decade now.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 04, 2008, 09:42:39 AM
    Quote from: jasper on March 03, 2008, 11:15:32 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on March 03, 2008, 10:00:45 PM
    Cyclone, per one of the ICTV reports during IC's semi-final game vs Fisher, Ithaca was not eligible to compete in the ECAC's this season. Apparently, the story goes, Ithaca came back a day early from Thanksgiving Break to start practice. The one extra practice constituted an "extra week" of practice and, thus, the team went over the maximum allowed weeks of practices as regulated by the ECAC. This is what the report said so I apologize for any inaccuracies, complete or partial.

    Normally, I think ECAC's are a good chance to get more playing time together, improve, etc. However, I think there'd be diminishing returns if the Bombers were to lace 'em up for this year's version of the NIT. It'd be their third straight year in ECAC's and I just don't think they'd be motivated after winning the regular season conference title and then having their season end the way it did. I think Utica would have stood to benefit most from this year's E8 Tourney. The Pios would have had a chance to face teams who made it into the E8 Tourney (Fisher) and measure themselves against other top teams in the region (SLU, B'port, Oswego, Vassar, etc.) that everyone had just assumed were better than Utica. Plus, they're a young team that will get better with each game. Unfortunately, like IC, Utica had too many practices and was ineligible. I hope Fisher shows well.

    I played college sports and i'll tell you one thing if my regular season ended in a 20 point butt kickin on my home floor you bet your bottom dollar my butt would want to play one more game for a chance to get that taste outta my mouth. I'm pretty sure Burton and company being the competitors they are feel the same way.






    Normally, I'd feel the same way. I'm not saying that I support the rationale behind it. I just don't think they'd be up for it. I've watched Ithaca a lot this season and that's just my opinion based on watching this year's personnel. I think they'd be disinterested and would go through the motions. Call me crazy.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: MHoops on March 04, 2008, 10:11:28 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on March 03, 2008, 10:00:45 PM
    Cyclone, per one of the ICTV reports during IC's semi-final game vs Fisher, Ithaca was not eligible to compete in the ECAC's this season. Apparently, the story goes, Ithaca came back a day early from Thanksgiving Break to start practice. The one extra practice constituted an "extra week" of practice and, thus, the team went over the maximum allowed weeks of practices as regulated by the ECAC. This is what the report said so I apologize for any inaccuracies, complete or partial.
    ...

    The NCAA Div. 3 manual (http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_iii_manual/2007-08/2007-08_d3_manual.pdf) states the season limit is 19 (consecutive?) weeks from the start of the first pre-season practice, excluding and NCAA tournament games/practice time.  So it would seem that if a team chooses to start practice the first allowable day (October 15th) then they're already excluding themselves from the ECAC tournament since the 19th week ended on March 2nd.  That's a tough choice for a coach to decide whether or not to sacrifice 1 week of pre-season practice in order to be eligible for the ECAC tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on March 04, 2008, 10:16:40 AM
    wow- i havent seen venom like this since football season!
    Wow!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on March 04, 2008, 10:19:27 AM
    Quote from: MHoops on March 04, 2008, 10:11:28 AMSo it would seem that if a team chooses to start practice the first allowable day (October 15th) then they're already excluding themselves from the ECAC tournament since the 19th week ended on March 2nd.  That's a tough choice for a coach to decide whether or not to sacrifice 1 week of pre-season practice in order to be eligible for the ECAC tournament.

    This is right.  It is a weird rule.  It would seem that ECAC would do everything possible to make teams eligible given some of the ambivalence that exists anyway.

    The debate about participation happens in football too.  Both sides have good arguments.  One more game (or a few more in hoops) for seniors.  Competitors want to play.  But, on the other hand, people are tired and injured after a long season (my first college season really wore me out and I was hurt for a good part of it).  Players also had much higher hopes and expectations and are understandably less than thrilled about playing for 40th place.  Also, don't forget that ECAC/NCAA eliminate spring break.  It's easy to give that up for a shot at the title.  But is the same true for a weekend in Brockport, or Hoboken, or Ithaca, or Fairport?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on March 04, 2008, 10:42:38 AM
    Quote from: MHoops on March 04, 2008, 10:11:28 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on March 03, 2008, 10:00:45 PM

    The NCAA Div. 3 manual (http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_iii_manual/2007-08/2007-08_d3_manual.pdf) states the season limit is 19 (consecutive?) weeks from the start of the first pre-season practice, excluding and NCAA tournament games/practice time.  So it would seem that if a team chooses to start practice the first allowable day (October 15th) then they're already excluding themselves from the ECAC tournament since the 19th week ended on March 2nd.  That's a tough choice for a coach to decide whether or not to sacrifice 1 week of pre-season practice in order to be eligible for the ECAC tournament.

    I checked with someone knowledgeable about the rules, and the weeks don't have to be consecutive.  The problem appears to be that if you practice (or play) for 1 day during the week, the whole week counts.  If you took the whole week from 12/23 - 12/29 off, you would be OK, but if you came back on the 27th or 28th, you would indeed have to count the week.   Ithaca played in a tournament on the 28th & 29th, so they had to count the week, then came right back to Ithaca to play on the 4th of January.

    There are 20 weeks inclusive between October 15 (start of practice) and March 1 (Last Saturday of Regular Season).  To be eligible for ECAC's you would have to take two weeks off, (e.g. Thanksgiving & Finals or Finals and the week between Christmas & New Years).  The schools that don't start practice until late obviously have an advantage here.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on March 04, 2008, 11:08:12 AM
    ECAC Tourney

    Weds First Rd Match-Ups

    6 seed Medaille (15-12) at 3 seed Cortland St (19-7)

    7 seed Cazenovia (14-13)  at 2 seed Oswego St (20-7)

    5 seed Vassar (18-7) at 4 seed St. John Fisher (16-11)

    Semis Saturday at Brockport State

    Medaille/Cortland vs. Cazenovia/Oswego

    1 seed Brockport St. vs. Vassar/Fisher

    Sunday championship at Brockport St at 2 p.m.

    A brockport - fisher match up would be very interesting and entertaining.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on March 04, 2008, 11:38:34 AM
    I asked someone from the CUNY who is familiar with Stevens a bit...they started practice on October 15th like everyone else.  From what I heard they usually have like a 2 week stretch right after the 1st week of December (whenever the last december game is) where they don't have official "practice" because of finals week and then xmas break week.  They don't start up again until after xmas.  So do 18 weeks between October 15th and NCAAs..I guess that's how they qualified.

    Just one way a coach is getting around it i suppose.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 04, 2008, 01:10:53 PM
    I've been trying to stay out of the Fray.. I'm still trying to understand why Stevens changed their starting line-up in the tourney after beating NAZ twice.  That seems like Months ago........Anyway, hey let's go NAZ there is no reason they can't go far. They have talent and they won our tourney.. Let's go Fisher and Stevens in ECAC...... We're all E 8 guys, we have to swollow our pride and pull for our teams......One of these days my guys are going to make the E-8 tourney... but not for awhile. ;)       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 04, 2008, 01:16:16 PM
    There are a lot of "informal" practices. Every school does this. As early as Labor Day weekend, one can walk through almost any D3 gym in the country and see teams having "informal" practices. Drills are run, free throws are taken, scrimmages are organized, and only the players from that year's team are playing. But the coaches are sitting in the hallways, reading a newspaper. Somehow, this is not deemed a practice.

    Seems like that one practice after Thanksgiving break is what made Ithaca ineligible. Oh well.

    Fromafar, who is your team? I don't think you've ever disclosed.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 04, 2008, 01:23:15 PM
    Go Bombers your right ;) It keeps me neutral and hopefully makes my posts looking unbiased, WHICH I try to be... Hey I'm an old guy and really enjoy reading your guys posts....  All of you really know this league... albeit a couple of guys are blinded by there allegiance. I have to say Bombers and Dynasty usually hit it on the head everytime.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 04, 2008, 01:26:42 PM
    Hey Cyclone, your on the money as well, and you know allot about Stevens. Any read on their ECAC match-ups and why did they change their line up versing NAZ.  ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on March 04, 2008, 02:10:52 PM
    Fromafar -

    Haha, thanks.  Being from New York City and following the Skyline, NJAC, and CUNY closely for almost 10 years now I figured I'd be in the best position to keep up with the Ducks.  As for the ECAC matchups, if the Ducks can avoid the NJAC schools, I think they'll win it.  Easier said than done, but historically I think the Ducks only NJAC win in the last 7 or 8 years was last years upset in the 2nd round of the NCAA's against Ramapo.  I know they beat TCNJ this year but that's a bad team.  They usually don't play the top of the NJAC well.

    For the first round, they play Staten Island, who they dismantled  in January 71-56 in Hoboken, so I don't see that game being close.  Out of the rest of the field, i think only the winner of #2 seed York vs. #7 seed NJCU has a chance at beating the Ducks.  St. Joes, their skyline former buddy, never beats Stevens.  Brooklyn has gotten blown out by Stevens repeatedly.  NYU and Rutgers-Newark just don't have the right matchups to play with the Ducks this year.  If I'm predicting, I think the Ducks meet the winner of that York/NJCU game in the final.


    As for the line-up switch....your guess is as good as mine.  If I had to guess, I think it was "over-coaching" if you will.  They had lost to Utica...and then Ithaca..and I think maybe their coach thought a line-up switch might give them a jumpstart.  No clue really, surprising move since they had basically used the same starting lineup all year.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: z on March 04, 2008, 04:41:25 PM
    congrats to Naz on winning the championship and getting the NCAA bid - hopefully they can get a couple wins and a shot at a powerhouse team.

    And thanks to all the supporters of Naz and the E8 on the forums. Its great that no matter who wins, the league backs them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2008, 07:40:56 PM
    Quote from: MHoops on March 04, 2008, 10:11:28 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on March 03, 2008, 10:00:45 PM
    Cyclone, per one of the ICTV reports during IC's semi-final game vs Fisher, Ithaca was not eligible to compete in the ECAC's this season. Apparently, the story goes, Ithaca came back a day early from Thanksgiving Break to start practice. The one extra practice constituted an "extra week" of practice and, thus, the team went over the maximum allowed weeks of practices as regulated by the ECAC. This is what the report said so I apologize for any inaccuracies, complete or partial.
    ...

    The NCAA Div. 3 manual (http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_iii_manual/2007-08/2007-08_d3_manual.pdf) states the season limit is 19 (consecutive?) weeks from the start of the first pre-season practice, excluding and NCAA tournament games/practice time.  So it would seem that if a team chooses to start practice the first allowable day (October 15th) then they're already excluding themselves from the ECAC tournament since the 19th week ended on March 2nd.  That's a tough choice for a coach to decide whether or not to sacrifice 1 week of pre-season practice in order to be eligible for the ECAC tournament.

    I believe most schools handle this by taking an extra week off over the holidays.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 04, 2008, 08:12:45 PM
    Does anyone have a scouting report on Vasser? Most of the other teams in the ECAC tournament I have a handle on, except maybe for Medaille. But, I honestly have not followed the LL at all this year, and now Fisher is playing them in the first round.

    I hope Fisher takes the tournament seriously. I can see them coming out and playing well, and I can see them coming out and laying a big time egg. This could be a great chance to get some younger players to continue to develop, as well as let the seniors go out on a winning note. There are some tough games in the tourny, but I think if Fisher plays well they can compete.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2008, 09:02:11 PM
    knowing most of the team personally i hope they take it seriously... they are already missing spring break and lost all 3 meetings to their arch rival, including a chance at the ncaa tournament... i think they will feel like they have something to prove, those seniors are all great competitors
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: keystonelight on March 04, 2008, 09:02:51 PM
    side note... jose what do you think about the new Rays? I'm digging it... alot
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on March 04, 2008, 10:16:41 PM
    SJFC- I haven't seen SJF at all this year (sadly) but I have seen Vassar twice so I'll give it a shot.  They are senior laden and the defending ECAC champs.  They have two really good players that are seniors. Liberty League POY  Larry Avitabile is among the hardest working overachievers I've seen this year.  The guy just flat out never takes a play off.  At 6' 3" maybe 6'4" in the program he rebounds extremely well by just working hard for position on every single play.  Averages about 14 pts and 8 rebounds a game. Just a "garbage points machine".  (Please read - box him out or suffer).  Brazell is a senior guard who is extremely quick, tends to go right, but still gets where he wants to go, and invariabley gets to the charity stripe if the ref's are calling it legit. He anticipates well and always seems to get a couple of steals that way. He is 1st team Liberty League. Goes for 15 pts 5 boards. Next best player is Jr guard Brian Butterworth- streaky shooter who can on occasion just go off. By far their top 3 point threat (probably took a third of the teams 3 point shots for the season). Averages 10 pts 2 rebs. Senior Kyle Magnus does the grunt work and heavy lifting. Banger who will probably be in foul trouble quickly if memory serves right about the reffing at SJF ;D, Senior guard Dan Forcella is small, crafty, a good outside shooter but does not get the time he did earlier in his career.  This being his final game (look at that I've already got SJF beating them) he may look to shoot more than he has. Off the bench spark is provided by Jr Matt Nunn 6'5" swingman with a very deft touch both mid range and from the 3. He's also a tremendous foul shooter at well over 80%. Other spark is Jr. Joe Davis a 6'4" banger jr who does nice work off the offensive glass. Two other guys get time Sr Jon Swartz & Jr Lenny Holt both are the same player practically so I get confused. Swartz may be a little better shooter from the outside and Holt may drive a little better.   Both average about 4 pts and 2 boards. Oh by the way Davis & Nunn both go for about 7 pts and 3 boards.  This is the only interesting first round matchup.  The others are blow outs. Sorry for the long post but I really love d-3 hoops. ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on March 05, 2008, 10:10:30 AM
    Quote from: keystonelight on March 04, 2008, 09:02:51 PM
    side note... jose what do you think about the new Rays? I'm digging it... alot

    Good things are happening down here.  A lot of the friends I made during my seven seasons are still working with the club and they all report good things internally to match the good things externally.  Will be a fun summer (its about time we had one of those down here).  +k for asking.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on March 05, 2008, 10:29:22 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on March 05, 2008, 10:10:30 AM
    Quote from: keystonelight on March 04, 2008, 09:02:51 PM
    side note... jose what do you think about the new Rays? I'm digging it... alot

    Good things are happening down here.  A lot of the friends I made during my seven seasons are still working with the club and they all report good things internally to match the good things externally.  Will be a fun summer (its about time we had one of those down here).  +k for asking.

    TB has been giving the Yanks and Sox all they want in individual games and series for a couple years now but obviously has not been able to put it together against the rest of the league.  I hope they do, the AL East needs a 3rd strong team since Toronto never followed through on the years of hype.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Knightstalker on March 05, 2008, 10:32:50 AM
    The Empire 8 is being recognized by the NCAA for their  sportsmanship initiatives.  (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLN4g38nYBSYGYxqb6kWhCjggRb31fj_zcVP0A_YLc0IhyR0VFAABTEJw!/delta/base64xml/L0lDU0lKQ1RPN29na21BISEvb0VvUUFBSVFnakZJQUFRaENFSVFqR0VBLzRKRmlDbzBlaDFpY29uUVZHaGQtc0lRIS83XzBfNVVWLzY1ODcxNw!!?WCM_PORTLET=PC_7_0_5UV_WCM&WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/NCAA/NCAA+News/NCAA+News+Online/2008/Assocation-wide/Empire+8+receives+unique+sportsmanship+honor+-+03-04-08+NCAA+News)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age comes? on March 05, 2008, 07:02:53 PM
    Not to be cynical, but wasn't there a flat out brawl at a SJF / Naz game a few years back?  Maybe the initiatives were are outgrowth of that and, if that is the case, they are truly to be appreciated...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 05, 2008, 09:48:58 PM
    Quote from: with age comes? on March 04, 2008, 10:16:41 PM
    SJFC- I haven't seen SJF at all this year (sadly) but I have seen Vassar twice so I'll give it a shot.  They are senior laden and the defending ECAC champs.  They have two really good players that are seniors. Liberty League POY  Larry Avitabile is among the hardest working overachievers I've seen this year.  The guy just flat out never takes a play off.  At 6' 3" maybe 6'4" in the program he rebounds extremely well by just working hard for position on every single play.  Averages about 14 pts and 8 rebounds a game. Just a "garbage points machine".  (Please read - box him out or suffer).  Brazell is a senior guard who is extremely quick, tends to go right, but still gets where he wants to go, and invariabley gets to the charity stripe if the ref's are calling it legit. He anticipates well and always seems to get a couple of steals that way. He is 1st team Liberty League. Goes for 15 pts 5 boards. Next best player is Jr guard Brian Butterworth- streaky shooter who can on occasion just go off. By far their top 3 point threat (probably took a third of the teams 3 point shots for the season). Averages 10 pts 2 rebs. Senior Kyle Magnus does the grunt work and heavy lifting. Banger who will probably be in foul trouble quickly if memory serves right about the reffing at SJF ;D, Senior guard Dan Forcella is small, crafty, a good outside shooter but does not get the time he did earlier in his career.  This being his final game (look at that I've already got SJF beating them) he may look to shoot more than he has. Off the bench spark is provided by Jr Matt Nunn 6'5" swingman with a very deft touch both mid range and from the 3. He's also a tremendous foul shooter at well over 80%. Other spark is Jr. Joe Davis a 6'4" banger jr who does nice work off the offensive glass. Two other guys get time Sr Jon Swartz & Jr Lenny Holt both are the same player practically so I get confused. Swartz may be a little better shooter from the outside and Holt may drive a little better.   Both average about 4 pts and 2 boards. Oh by the way Davis & Nunn both go for about 7 pts and 3 boards.  This is the only interesting first round matchup.  The others are blow outs. Sorry for the long post but I really love d-3 hoops. ;D

    You forgot to mention that they never miss a free throw..;.;
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on March 05, 2008, 11:32:48 PM
    Congrats to both St. John Fisher and Stevens on advancing to the Semi's of their respective ECAC tournaments.  Good luck to Naz tomorrow.

    E8...2-0 in the post season so far!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: keystonelight on March 06, 2008, 10:23:14 AM
    i'm a lifetime indians fan growing up in Ashtabula, OH. Given that I hate... HATE the yankees and after last season hate the red sox just as much I have been rooting for TB for a few years now, Like Caz said they have been giving them all they want and then some in the regular season...

    Lets go SJFC, very pleased when i checked the box score last night
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on March 06, 2008, 10:29:24 AM
    Quote from: with age comes? on March 05, 2008, 07:02:53 PM
    Not to be cynical, but wasn't there a flat out brawl at a SJF / Naz game a few years back?  Maybe the initiatives were are outgrowth of that and, if that is the case, they are truly to be appreciated...

    Nah, these initiatives are totally unrelated to that brawl.  The Chuck Mitrano, E8 "Commissioner," basically uses the league as a vehicle to promote himself and his sportsmanship agenda.  He has been making a big deal about what a good sport he is as long as I can remember.  Sounds like people are starting to notice, which I suppose was the point all along.  Too bad ol' Chucky boy has not control over post patterns!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on March 06, 2008, 12:24:53 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on March 06, 2008, 10:29:24 AM
    Quote from: with age comes? on March 05, 2008, 07:02:53 PM
    Not to be cynical, but wasn't there a flat out brawl at a SJF / Naz game a few years back?  Maybe the initiatives were are outgrowth of that and, if that is the case, they are truly to be appreciated...

    Nah, these initiatives are totally unrelated to that brawl.  The Chuck Mitrano, E8 "Commissioner," basically uses the league as a vehicle to promote himself and his sportsmanship agenda.  He has been making a big deal about what a good sport he is as long as I can remember.  Sounds like people are starting to notice, which I suppose was the point all along.  Too bad ol' Chucky boy has not control over post patterns!

    Jose,
    you didn't realize the Pat Coleman is just a clone of Chuck Mitrano
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.d3football.com%2Fimages%2Fpcolemug150.jpg&hash=2071be2b450a17c401ee264923e738d0bec595c9)  (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.usatoday.com%2Fsports%2Fcollege%2F_photos%2F2004-03-01-mitrano.jpg&hash=f9b5b649f3733b48e8c79f5c7a470961a6a00821)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Knightstalker on March 06, 2008, 01:28:32 PM
    Quote from: superman57 on March 06, 2008, 12:24:53 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on March 06, 2008, 10:29:24 AM
    Quote from: with age comes? on March 05, 2008, 07:02:53 PM
    Not to be cynical, but wasn't there a flat out brawl at a SJF / Naz game a few years back?  Maybe the initiatives were are outgrowth of that and, if that is the case, they are truly to be appreciated...

    Nah, these initiatives are totally unrelated to that brawl.  The Chuck Mitrano, E8 "Commissioner," basically uses the league as a vehicle to promote himself and his sportsmanship agenda.  He has been making a big deal about what a good sport he is as long as I can remember.  Sounds like people are starting to notice, which I suppose was the point all along.  Too bad ol' Chucky boy has not control over post patterns!

    Jose,
    you didn't realize the Pat Coleman is just a clone of Chuck Mitrano
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.d3football.com%2Fimages%2Fpcolemug150.jpg&hash=2071be2b450a17c401ee264923e738d0bec595c9)  (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.usatoday.com%2Fsports%2Fcollege%2F_photos%2F2004-03-01-mitrano.jpg&hash=f9b5b649f3733b48e8c79f5c7a470961a6a00821)

    No supes, PC and Daniel Snyder are the same person.
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Fphoto%2F2005%2F08%2F19%2FPH2005081902021.jpg&hash=173fe12ff57be70bd590d9254b8208ec49f2545c)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on March 06, 2008, 02:45:31 PM
    Quote from: Knightstalker on March 06, 2008, 01:28:32 PM
    Quote from: superman57 on March 06, 2008, 12:24:53 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on March 06, 2008, 10:29:24 AM
    Quote from: with age comes? on March 05, 2008, 07:02:53 PM
    Not to be cynical, but wasn't there a flat out brawl at a SJF / Naz game a few years back?  Maybe the initiatives were are outgrowth of that and, if that is the case, they are truly to be appreciated...

    Nah, these initiatives are totally unrelated to that brawl.  The Chuck Mitrano, E8 "Commissioner," basically uses the league as a vehicle to promote himself and his sportsmanship agenda.  He has been making a big deal about what a good sport he is as long as I can remember.  Sounds like people are starting to notice, which I suppose was the point all along.  Too bad ol' Chucky boy has not control over post patterns!

    Jose,
    you didn't realize the Pat Coleman is just a clone of Chuck Mitrano
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.d3football.com%2Fimages%2Fpcolemug150.jpg&hash=2071be2b450a17c401ee264923e738d0bec595c9)  (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.usatoday.com%2Fsports%2Fcollege%2F_photos%2F2004-03-01-mitrano.jpg&hash=f9b5b649f3733b48e8c79f5c7a470961a6a00821)

    No supes, PC and Daniel Snyder are the same person.
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Fphoto%2F2005%2F08%2F19%2FPH2005081902021.jpg&hash=173fe12ff57be70bd590d9254b8208ec49f2545c)

    KS, superman feels that they are both clones of Chuck Mitrano, here are some more Chucky Mitrano clones

    Hal Steinbrenner (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.waswatching.com%2Farchives%2Fhalsteinbrenner.jpg&hash=ca417a768b5e8af4d9ee8ca4aad29fdd7285b615)
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmsnbcmedia4.msn.com%2Fj%2Fmsnbc%2FComponents%2FPhotos%2F060913%2F060913_tomCruise_vsmall.widec.jpg&hash=e932c7bc1f77de1f03365db9be620206eea4a815)

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbestuff.com%2Fimages%2Fimages_of_stuff%2F210x600%2Fclark-kent-14317.jpg&hash=20b30a8d6f851d08753190e3bdf4ee1e52a9856d)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2008, 12:52:17 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on March 06, 2008, 10:29:24 AM
    Quote from: with age comes? on March 05, 2008, 07:02:53 PM
    Not to be cynical, but wasn't there a flat out brawl at a SJF / Naz game a few years back?  Maybe the initiatives were are outgrowth of that and, if that is the case, they are truly to be appreciated...

    Nah, these initiatives are totally unrelated to that brawl.  The Chuck Mitrano, E8 "Commissioner," basically uses the league as a vehicle to promote himself and his sportsmanship agenda. 

    Hmm, someone sounds bitter.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on March 07, 2008, 08:10:30 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2008, 12:52:17 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on March 06, 2008, 10:29:24 AM
    Quote from: with age comes? on March 05, 2008, 07:02:53 PM
    Not to be cynical, but wasn't there a flat out brawl at a SJF / Naz game a few years back?  Maybe the initiatives were are outgrowth of that and, if that is the case, they are truly to be appreciated...

    Nah, these initiatives are totally unrelated to that brawl.  The Chuck Mitrano, E8 "Commissioner," basically uses the league as a vehicle to promote himself and his sportsmanship agenda. 

    You're right.  That does read much worse than it was intended.  I have never met Mitrano and am sure he is a perfectly nice guy.  I only meant to express that I have not seen a lot of control over the E8 outside of this one particular issue.  I also can't help but notice how often the guy shows up as a sportsmanship expert in news stories.

    Maybe the quotation marks were a bit much.

    Hmm, someone sounds bitter.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 07, 2008, 09:35:08 AM
    I hope the Rays do well, but if this were an episode of Around the Horn, I'd be "selling." I know, Caz, you're very high on them this year. I call it the Arizona Cardinals Fallacy because, I was thinking, the comparisons between the Rays in baseball and the Arizona Cardinals in football are startling. Both teams:

    -Have a guy who goes a round or two too early in fantasy drafts because of reputation (Edge James and Carl Crawford...who still puts up great numbers, but below par for outfielders consistently drafted in the 1st round)

    -Have several fantasy football/baseball darlings

    -To that point, some great-stats-on-bad-teams players (Crawford, Upton, Pena vs Boldin, Fitzgerald, Warner)

    -A guy whose reputation far exceeds anything that they've ever done in professional sports, due to injuries and the like (Rocco Baldelli and Matt Leinart)

    -Unrealistic expectations put on them by the media each pre-season (i.e. "Is this the year the Cardinals make the playoffs?" and "Is this the year that the Rays can win 80 games?")

    -Sorely lacked the elements that make teams in their respective sports successful (offensive/defensive line for Arizona, starting pitching/bullpen/defense for the Rays)

    Don't get me wrong, I think things are finally looking up for Tampa. They will be 30x better on defense this year with Iwamura/Bartlett up the middle. I'm thoroughly excited about saying "Evan Longoria" all summer (over/under on Eva Longoria comments made by opponents' broadcasters and SportsCenter anchors: 7,000). Upton has the chance to put up absurd numbers this year, too, and anytime you can get rid of two headcases (Dukes and Young), that never hurts either.

    What worries me, as always, is their pitching. Kazmir is a tremendous talent even if inconsistent for long stretches. Shields had a better 2007 season than most realize and is a decent #2, and Garza is certainly on the upswing of his career. However, according to MLB.com, Andy Sonnanstine and Edwin Jackson are their fourth and fifth starters right now. You're just not going to win with that, sorry. It sounds like some of their pitching prospects are almost ready, but even if they are they'll take some lumps against some of those quality AL lineups. Also, the Rays bullpen is average, at best.

    Baseball Prospectus predicted 88 wins for Tampa. I almost spit out my orange juice when I read that. Excitedly, I quickly surfed to an online gambling website hoping the site would have set Tampa's over/under win total at something equally absurd. Unfortunately for my student loans, no dice. Most Vegas casinos have them at over/under 74.5. I agree with that.

    Jose, when do the Rays get their new stadium? Tropicana is such an eyesore. However, I did like the venue for college basketball.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 07, 2008, 08:04:24 PM
    Nazareth loses to Rhode Island College 77-73.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on March 07, 2008, 08:09:46 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 07, 2008, 08:04:24 PM
    Nazareth loses to Rhode Island College 77-73.

    Well that was fun.  When's football season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: MHoops on March 07, 2008, 08:26:03 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 07, 2008, 08:09:46 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 07, 2008, 08:04:24 PM
    Nazareth loses to Rhode Island College 77-73.

    Well that was fun.  When's football season.

    Well the E8 is still alive on the womens side for now.   Utica is leading 33-31 at the half vs. #11 Kean.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: MHoops on March 07, 2008, 09:42:22 PM
    UC women lost 83-76.  From livestats it looks like they made a comeback from being down by 18 points 2nd half but they ran out of time.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 07, 2008, 11:04:21 PM
    Good season for Naz. Unfortunately, RIC had an excellent bench and outscored Naz's reserves 40-11. That'll do it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 08, 2008, 02:35:24 AM
    Here's hoping that U of R and Plattsburgh St. can both make a run to the final 4 and give NYS hoops team something to be proud of. I can see Rochester doing just that as they have a good chance to host the sectionals.  Plattsburgh has a tough road ahead. If they get by Kings College, they'll face Brandeis or Bowdoin, and a win there and the prize is Amherst at Amherst in all probability.  Love to see a rematch of UR and Plattsburgh in the Semifinals.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on March 08, 2008, 10:57:40 AM
    Superman does not envy anyone playing at Amherst, has to be one of the best homecourts in the country
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 08, 2008, 11:31:28 AM
    Platts will take care of kings, and will give Brandies a run for their money, however, they will lose to Amherst.


    UofR if they win their second round game against mass dartmouth they will go to the final 4 in my opinion.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 08, 2008, 06:03:57 PM
    U of R will face a bigger challenge from Va. Wesleyan or Ursinus than they will from UMass-Darthmouth. Sadly, I have to agree with your Plattsburgh assessment, but hope we're both wrong. Now it's time to take in the game.  Miserable weather in Plattsburgh tonite. Sleet and freezing rain all afternoon and evening followed by more snow.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 08, 2008, 09:15:20 PM
    I keep forgetting virginia weslyan is in UofR's bracket so yeah I agree with you on that.  Have you seen Mass Dartmouth? I think they may be better than people think. Dont know for sure though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cards7580 on March 09, 2008, 01:59:53 AM
    they're not better than the Coast Guard  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on March 09, 2008, 11:08:45 AM
    Final game of the Empire 8 basketball season is tonight (unless Fisher is still runnin, haven't kept up, sry!)


    Top Seeded Stevens advanced to the final of the ECAC Metro and will take on 2nd seeded York tonight.  Stevens beat 21-7 Brooklyn College last night.  Gray had 26 and 8 boards. 


    Stevens is still undefeated at home this season and has only lost their once in the past 2 years, which was an overtime buzzer beater against SUNY-Old Westbury in the Skyline Tournament last year.  Tough to win against the Ducks in Hoboken.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 09, 2008, 11:27:45 AM
    Brockport nips Fisher, 81-80. Fisher trailed by 20+ in the first half but rallies to take the lead in the second stanza. Fisher holds a 4-point lead with 55 seconds left but can't close the deal. Shades of Nazareth. Will be an all-SUNYAC final between Brockport and Cortland.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 09, 2008, 05:48:18 PM
    Plattsburgh State is hosting the sectionals this coming weekend.

    Friday night March 14th

    Amherst vs Richard Stockton 5:30

    Plattsburgh vs Brandeis  8:15

    Looks to be some great hoops as well as Hockey in Plattsburgh this coming weekend.

    #3 Plattsburgh Men's Hockey team hosting NCAA game.

    #1 Plattsburgh Women's Hockey team hosting NCAA game. Update:  Now the NCAA has given the Women's team a bye and they will be hosting the Final Four on March 21 & 22. So no women's hockey game this weekend.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on March 09, 2008, 08:21:11 PM
    On the bright side, the Empire 8 finishes with a championship this year....


    Top Seeded Stevens finished up another perfect record at home with an 82-54 beat down of #2 seed York College today in Hoboken to capture the ECAC Metro Championship.  Congrats to the Ducks, and to their seniors on ending their career with a victory.


    *Not bad ways to finish your college careers:

    Farid - 14 pts, 8 boards, 6 assists
    Williams - 14 pts, 8 boards
    Ayodele - 6 pts, 6 rebounds


    Ducks have a lot to replace next year....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on March 09, 2008, 08:43:47 PM
    Yeah,  SIT has a lot to replace with the loss of Farid, Williams and Ayodele. But I think Fisher has maybe even more to replace with the loss of Beigel, Smalt, McKeever and Bearden. That's 3 starters, 2 "go-to" guys and 1 significant bench player.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 09, 2008, 10:25:41 PM
    Proving it's never too early to look forward, here's my guess at how they finish in 2008-09.

    1) Ithaca:  The Big Three return and the Bombers don't lose a ton to graduation. Bostic and Burton will both be E8 POY candidates. The Bombers will lose starting center Louis Kail but Tom Brown will fill in capably in the pivot. Ithaca also loses Ruffrage and Scanlon, who seemed to regress in his senior year. Freshman Chris Cruz came on at the end of the season and played well in two games against Fisher. He'll be the sixth man. I think Mullins will spell Burton a bit more next year as freshman Matt Ruger will be ready to take on more of the ballhandling duties.

    2) Utica: Nice mix of a talented veteran (Herring), quality bigs (McClendon, Goodman), and a lot of good, young players. One of the top teams in the league at the end of the season. They will be good next season.

    3) Nazareth: The McAdam brothers return. That is enough to give them a chance each night. The graduation of Joe Canori leaves a void of about 18-20 points per night. Rayvon Higdon will likely step in to fill some of that void, but I think they'll miss Canori's scoring ability.

    4) Fisher: Call me crazy, but I think they have enough to do well next year. This team will definitely be guard-oriented but that wins a lot in college basketball. Not a bad nucleus in Newman, Baltz and Franklin. I like Witte and Wopperer (who came on at the end of the season and looks like a more-than-serviceable big), too. We know Kornaker will recruit and will bring in a couple of freshman who can contribute immediately. Coyne and Cornett will contribute, as well. Kornaker has become a better coach over the last few years and I think he gets them to the E8 Tourney.

    5) Stevens: The loss of Farid really hurts. Williams could have been one of the top bigs if he had more of an edge to him and/or he was used correctly, but too late for that. Like Fisher, will have to hope someone steps up down low on the blocks. Also like Fisher, will very much be a guard-oriented team with the return of Gray, Passalacqua and Greco. Higgins and Baker move into starting roles. However, team will be lacking depth. Stevens needs to become a better road team, too. However, they will be in contention for the E8 Tourney until the end because of how adept they are on their home floor.

    6) RIT: I thorougly believe if McVean just cut his rotation down to 8 players, RIT would be two games better each conference season. Or, just maybe, they can figure out how to avoid being swept by Hartwick and just be two games better that way. Gethers and Colin Roy are gone. Returning are Mark Carson, Whitwood, Korinchak, and E8 Co-Rookie of the Year Shane Foster. RIT can beat anyone on a given night but they can lose to almost anyone, too. Until consistency appears, I'm going to slot them here each year.

    7) Elmira: Young team that made significant strides this season. Twice put a scare into a good Stevens team and played well at Ithaca late in the season. Team's ability to play hard defense will allow them to stay close in a bunch of games. I think this team can win 5 or 6 games in the conference next season.

    8 ) Hartwick: Unfortunately, Coco just never had any help during his career, an excellent player languishing on terrible team. He should have pulled a Pierre Garcon and transferred to a top program. He could've been a great 3rd option on a very good team. If Carson brothers return, they could possibly overtake Elmira. I'm not betting on it, though.

    9) Alfred: If any D3 coach should ever be fired, Jay Murphy should. A bunch of players returning, but not all that much talent in that group. I think they have the basement on lockdown until Coco graduates from Hartwick.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 10, 2008, 01:16:25 PM
    CONGRATS to Stevens for their ECAC championship, nice finish for seniors. Go Bombers your pretty close on your 08-09 assesment I THINK. I would put Nazareth on top, just based on experience. Yes the Canori loss is big, But they have enough to make up his numbers. They need to cut down the turn-overs. Ithaca and Utica could be in the top 3 IF they share the ball the ball.  If Herring and Burton's shots per game decrease they will probably be at the top. ( sounds crazy... watch).  Fisher will probably come up with some recruits, they'll be young if they play, maybe a year away. Stevens is interesting. While they lose Farid and Williams, Greco can shoot and has the ability to average double digits , (should be given the green light with Farid gone). Higgins and Baker can rebound and play defense. As you said they should be around for the Tourney. They need to recruit some tough forwards to be ready for 09-10. RIT is a  wait and see team.. Elmira is definitely on the rise, could cause trouble for top 5. Hartwick and Alfred need some serious recruits....It's been fun, 220 days to Midnight Madness ;)           
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 10, 2008, 03:07:44 PM
    FROMAFAR, it's interesting that you project Naz ahead of Ithaca when the Bombers return almost everything and Naz loses such an important piece in Canori. I don't think they have any player who can step in and do what he did. The McAdam brothers will definitely have to raise their game a level. The top four teams this year were evenly matched, so a loss as significant as Canori will hurt them. Keep in mind that Ithaca swept Naz this year and finished ahead of them in the standings, too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 11, 2008, 09:55:31 AM
    Bombers all good points, BUT as I said, they need to spread out the offense a little. Burton has to think more like a point guard, and dish more and shoot less. If you look at the year end run the other guys were involved more offensively. That got to the Tourney and back to the Burton show. They lost. hey, I'm not big on NAZ and will probably change my mind 6 times before we even begin next year. They certainly have flaws. Corey turns the ball over way too much, and Ryan will really be the only real offensive threat. Higdon tends to hide during games at times, and I'm not impressed with their inside game. Utica needs to get something from someone other than Herring who sometimes pulls a Burton, and that's when they suffer. Look at their year end run. Herring numbers down and rest up.  Fisher needs some instant help from whoever they recruited. Stevens loses toughness underneath, losing Williams and Ayodele, big problem. The loss of Farid will not be that devistating, except for rebounds, his points will be made up by Grey, Pasalaqua and Greco.  They will see the ball more and all three can have big scoring nights. They need Baker and Higgans to come up big on the boards BUT they will need some bench help..That could cause them a top 4 finish.  That being said look for Elmira to win it all. ;)


       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 12, 2008, 11:03:28 AM
    I think Ithaca could win it all next year, Utica, or Naz.  I always like Dehimer for Naz not sure why he didnt start this year at the 5.  I think he will have a big year next year.  Also, Bozzeli for naz 6'6 about 250 was out this year I think if he plays next year will be a descent for inside as well.  Then you go with Higdon who had a good soph year off the bench and started his fresh year,  and two McAdams they will definatly be in the hunt.  Also naz is good at recruiting im sure they will bring in another player or 2 that can play off the bat.  Fisher will be okay with their all guard line up, they used to do it before the past 4 years. They will have a shot at winning E8 but wont be able to do any damage in the NCAA's without some bigs.  I really like branden Witt 6'4 3 guard came on late as of last year, Ozell will be a soph and and baltz and newman 3 year starters will be back.  They will need a few more guys for the 4-5 spots, they can play with 4 guards but will need someone other then wopperer to fill out the 5.  They will cause match up problems, spread the floor and get the good ball movement and shooting going that Fisher is known for.  However, I don't think they will do much better than 3rd or 4th.  Fisher could really use 1 or 2 Junior College transfers, that woudl make them an instant contender but that isnt the way fisher recruits so not likely.

    RIT will be close to the same as they have been the past few years in the hunt for the 3-6 position.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on March 13, 2008, 01:14:08 PM
    Hey has Coach Burton gotten that UC job yet?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on March 14, 2008, 07:58:17 AM
    Quote from: scooterman on March 13, 2008, 01:14:08 PM
    Hey has Coach Burton gotten that UC job yet?

    I don't think he will. I'd watch for someone with ties to the program.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on March 21, 2008, 11:50:50 PM
    Empire 8 POY Sean Burton named NABC 2nd team All-American as well as 1st team All-District

                    http://bombers.ithaca.edu/index.asp?path=mbasket

    Farid & Corey McAdam named to NABC All-District Teams as well...

                    http://www.stevensducks.com/sports/mbball/release.asp?release_id=3646

                    http://www.nazathletics.com/News/mbball/2008/3/20/mcadam_3_20_08.asp


    Congrats boys for your honors!


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on April 02, 2008, 09:21:36 AM
    Not the way I thought UC would go.

    Looks like another E8 job opening up. I feel UC could have done much better, but I'll give the guy a chance.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on April 02, 2008, 09:29:21 AM
    Who are you speaking of?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on April 02, 2008, 09:56:52 AM
    You will see soon.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on April 02, 2008, 09:58:28 AM
    One real positive is that his guys always play hard. I am a little worried about recruiting, but the guy always has teams that play hard and are good people.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on April 02, 2008, 01:22:33 PM
    School finally announced it.

    http://www.utica.edu/ucpioneers/mbasketball/index.cfm?featureaction=detail&id=2149 (http://www.utica.edu/ucpioneers/mbasketball/index.cfm?featureaction=detail&id=2149)

    Gil Burgmaster
    Release Date 04/02/2008
    [Go to UC Sports News]


    Head Coach Chris Connolly UTICA, NY – Utica College Athletic Director Jim Spartano Wednesday named Chris Connolly head men's basketball coach.
    Connolly spent the past four seasons as head men's basketball coach and administrative assistant at Empire 8 Conference member Elmira College in Elmira, NY.

    "We are extremely happy that Chris has accepted the job as head men's basketball coach here at Utica College," says Spartano. "He brings with him a great resume including 10 years of coaching experience. He knows the Empire 8 Conference and our current student-athletes very well. Our players respect him for what he has accomplished and the way his teams prepared and played during his four seasons at Elmira."

    His coaching resume prior to Elmira College includes a two year stint as assistant coach at Division II LeMoyne College where he guided the Dolphins to consecutive 17-win seasons. Following a successful playing career at Hartwick College, Connolly joined the Hawks coaching staff in 1997 as an assistant coach for five seasons where he was involved in all aspects of the men's basketball program. In his first year as an assistant coach at Hartwick he also doubled as an assistant director of admissions, where he coordinated all aspects of recruiting students from the New England area. He also spent three seasons as head coach of the Central Region men's basketball team at the Empire State games and he guided his team to an Open Division Silver Medal in 2002.

    "I am certainly excited about the opportunity and I would like to thank Coach Spartano and the entire Utica College community for the chance to coach such a well respected program," says Connolly. "I was raised in nearby Richfield Springs and I have had the pleasure of watching UC grow and expand over the years. I look forward to returning home being a part of the continued growth of the college and the men's basketball program."

    Connolly graduated from Hartwick College in 1996 with a degree in biology. As a student he served as team captain of the men's basketball team in his senior campaign, capping a four-year career highlighted by a trip to the NCAA Tournament.

    Connolly has spent the last four years rebuilding the Elmira College men's basketball program and he most recently guided the Soaring Eagles to a 6-19 overall record and an eighth place finish in the conference. He coached two Empire 8 All-Conference honorees during his tenure at Elmira and this past season two freshmen garnered a combined seven conference rookie of the week awards.

    As an administrative assistant at Elmira, Connolly was responsible for assisting Vice President of Athletics Patricia Thompson with scheduling the Soaring Eagles athletic contests.

    Connolly, a 1992 graduate of Richfield Springs High School, currently resides in Elmira, NY with his wife Jennifer, his daughter, Rhyan and son, James.

    This past season the Pioneers finished with a 16-9 overall record and 10-6 in conference play, just missing out on the conference tournament by one game. UC won eight of its last ten games, while knocking off the top four teams in the conference.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on April 02, 2008, 02:08:51 PM
    Not exactly what you'd call a winning track record, but then again Elmira was a little less putrid than usual this past season.  Odd move all the way around, not necessarily bad right now, but odd.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on April 02, 2008, 02:42:11 PM
    Wow, what an awful hire.  How does this keep the program's momentum going?

    I don't know the guy but I think it is hard to shake the stink of time as EC's head man.  Maybe I'm wrong though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on April 02, 2008, 09:03:13 PM
    Superman agrees, that this is a very very odd hire, and that maybe the Utica job wasn't as attractive as it looked, I mean Utica eve offered superman the job, and he turned it down, guess Utica really does suck.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on April 11, 2008, 09:12:59 AM
    With Coach Connelly heading to Utica, is there any news on who Elmira's next coach is going to be?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on April 11, 2008, 10:26:59 AM
    Quote from: Razor on April 11, 2008, 09:12:59 AM
    With Coach Connelly heading to Utica, is there any news on who Elmira's next coach is going to be?

    Maybe just use a cardboard cutout to save money?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on April 28, 2008, 01:55:31 PM
    Heard today that Alfred may be on the verge of a coaching change.  Anyone know if there is any truth to that??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on April 29, 2008, 01:44:29 PM
    Quote from: Razor on April 28, 2008, 01:55:31 PM
    Heard today that Alfred may be on the verge of a coaching change.  Anyone know if there is any truth to that??

    I'm hearing its happening.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on April 29, 2008, 04:04:16 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on April 29, 2008, 01:44:29 PM
    Quote from: Razor on April 28, 2008, 01:55:31 PM
    Heard today that Alfred may be on the verge of a coaching change.  Anyone know if there is any truth to that??

    I'm hearing its happening.

    Yep, it's official: Jay Murphy is no longer the AU men's coach. He's now the WOMEN's basketball coach.

    Here's the link to the school website:

    www.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?ID=4735

    Interesting move, though he's probably prolonged his career, because there's nowhere to go but up for the women's team. The women had a 2-21 record, 1-15 in Empire 8. The men were 2-23, 1-15 this year.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: lileyes on April 29, 2008, 08:56:30 PM
    There is a possibility coach Murphy's daughter, who is currently playing at St. John Fisher, may transfer to play for him at Alfred. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on April 30, 2008, 08:16:53 AM
    Quote from: lileyes on April 29, 2008, 08:56:30 PM
    There is a possibility coach Murphy's daughter, who is currently playing at St. John Fisher, may transfer to play for him at Alfred. 

    I'm hearing this is also happening. I'm guessing he wouldn't have made the move unless his daughter transferred to Alfred. What other reason would he have, other than self-preservation?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on April 30, 2008, 08:31:41 AM
    I wonder if Alfred will make a run at Fisher Assistant Gregg Hepler who was a grad assistant at Alfred before going to IC full-time (and subsequently SJF full time)?  In my mind that would be a great hire.  He'd have inroads into both IC and SJF's recruiting bases and might balance the conference with a fourth contender.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on April 30, 2008, 10:41:04 AM
    I had no idea what his record was until I went and did the math. Any time a release doesn't mention the coach's mark a red flag immediately goes up for me.

    http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2008/04/29/alfred-mens-coach-switches-to-womens-team.html
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on April 30, 2008, 11:29:46 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 30, 2008, 10:41:04 AMI had no idea what his record was until I went and did the math.

    Apparently, neither did the AD that let him stick around for 13 seasons and hired him as the girl's coach.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on April 30, 2008, 12:39:54 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on April 30, 2008, 11:29:46 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 30, 2008, 10:41:04 AMI had no idea what his record was until I went and did the math.

    Apparently, neither did the AD that let him stick around for 13 seasons and hired him as the girl's coach.

    Yeah, I was wondering how long they'd keep him around. He's done poorly most years, and in the few years the team was OK (ie. .500 or slightly above) he's had teams that were much more talented than their record showed. He's not a good recruiter, and in the few times I've seen his teams play, he's not great at managing games.

    Anyone hear who they might be looking at for new head coaches for the men's team?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on April 30, 2008, 12:43:27 PM
    I agree JoseQ...Gregg Hepler would be a GREAT hire for Alfred.  He's a Section V guy who has really put in his time at some successful programs.  He's a good recruiter and I think could really be a huge asset to the program and it's hopes of rebuilding a contender in the E8.  If they hire the most qualified guy, he's the obvious choice but the way they do things down there has got to make you wonder a bit!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mefor3again on April 30, 2008, 09:50:52 PM

    anyone know anything about who is in the mix at Elmira?  I heard only that there were a lot of names


    Alfred news would be great too
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: hopefan on May 02, 2008, 08:02:48 AM
    ok, Im confused....   the following is from the article on Coach Murphy moving over to Alfred's Women's program

    "Murphy has coached the AU men's basketball for 13 seasons and is 210-421 (.333) in 25 years as a collegiate head coach. During his tenure, AU has made one NCAA tournament appearance, in 1997. That season, his second at AU, Murphy was named Presidents' Athletic Conference Coach of the Year after leading the Saxons to the PAC title."

    Was Alfred really in the Presidents Athletic Conference  -  with all the Western Pa schools?  For how long?   Back when I played at RPI, they were a fellow ICAC league member   Alfred, Hobart, Union, RPI, St Lawrence, and Clarkson.   I just can't remember them ever joining the Presidents Conference
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on May 08, 2008, 09:41:10 PM
    would anyone like to be the Alfred University basketball coach http://www.d3jobs.com/show/3V6pA42L
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 13, 2008, 09:35:07 AM
    Get ready boys, another coaches opening coming in E-8. Since it's not on their web yet, we'll wait for them to announce.... Not even sure if the team knows yet, but have a friend who coaches in another conference... Soon... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on May 13, 2008, 10:23:38 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on May 13, 2008, 09:35:07 AM
    Get ready boys, another coaches opening coming in E-8. Since it's not on their web yet, we'll wait for them to announce.... Not even sure if the team knows yet, but have a friend who coaches in another conference... Soon... ;)

    Been trying to figure this one out, but I'm not in the loop. I have a hard time thinking it could be one of the top programs in the league, so my conclusion is it is Hartwick. Am I close or far off?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mefor3again on May 13, 2008, 10:48:49 AM

    Is this coach leaving for another job?  let go?  Retiring?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 13, 2008, 11:35:38 AM
    Again, I want to be fair to the program and the coach.  It is one of the better programs, and the coach got another offer. It's not Hartwick ( although I could see that as well, but that would have happened already).  Probaly will hear today or tomorrow. Whoever get's the job, will be getting a good team, let's leave it there for now.   ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on May 13, 2008, 12:01:15 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on May 13, 2008, 11:35:38 AM
    Again, I want to be fair to the program and the coach.  It is one of the better programs, and the coach got another offer. It's not Hartwick ( although I could see that as well, but that would have happened already).  Probaly will hear today or tomorrow. Whoever get's the job, will be getting a good team, let's leave it there for now.   ;) 

    Well, maybe it's Naz. Although, Toby Brown would seem to me as the guy who would get that spot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on May 13, 2008, 03:11:30 PM
    Well better squad limits us to, Fisher, RIT, Ithaca and Naz, of the people leaving for a better job, I could see Kornaker leaving, but who knows
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jacketfan2011 on May 13, 2008, 04:48:30 PM
    Quote from: superman57 on May 13, 2008, 03:11:30 PM
    Well better squad limits us to, Fisher, RIT, Ithaca and Naz, of the people leaving for a better job, I could see Kornaker leaving, but who knows

    Or Stevens?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on May 14, 2008, 11:52:17 AM
    Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on May 13, 2008, 04:48:30 PM
    Quote from: superman57 on May 13, 2008, 03:11:30 PM
    Well better squad limits us to, Fisher, RIT, Ithaca and Naz, of the people leaving for a better job, I could see Kornaker leaving, but who knows

    Or Stevens?

    Judging from the original poster's previous posts, I'm guessing its Naz, because he seems to have posted lots about them. That's just my take on it, but obviously it could be any of those four, and Stevens, but I'd pick one of the Rochester schools.

    Kornaker could be the one, since it mentioned a better offer, and with a down year, he should make the jump in case it becomes a trend, not just one year. Somehow, I didn't guess he'd be the one, though, because of his comfortable spot at SJF.

    Mullins probably isn't going anywhere until he retires at this point, so I'm guessing its not him. I hadn't really thought of RIT, because of their 15-11 record this year, but it could be McVean, but again not seeing him move on other than retirement.

    Since I've ruled out Stevens, due to not being in upstate NY and only having been a member of the E8 for a year, I've got to guess Nazareth. Now, Daley, has been around for a while, but I noticed in addition to being the head men's basketball coach, he's also assistant athletic director working in game management and scheduling. Perhaps the better offer is a bump to AD, taking away the craziness being a D3 hoops coach brings with it.

    Thoughts?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 14, 2008, 01:05:03 PM
    Hey guys, I really didn't mean to start a guessing game.. Some of the coaches mentioned are probably getting frustrated with the posts about them, if their reading. I really thought this would have been announced quickly. Maybe the school wants to announce the replacement at the same time (that's just a guess). Again my tip came from someone who is a coach FROMAFAR as they say.. not involved with the E 8... However I have checked and the schools web, as well as where he is going, still hasn't released info. But I assure you it's for real.....Hang In, I believe it has to be soon, as current recruits may be affected as well as recruits involved with replacement ( I don't know who that is, if there is anyone yet. since this may have been a surprise to the school as well).  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: haterinthehouse on May 14, 2008, 03:49:47 PM
    looks like Stevens is looking for a new head coach
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: haterinthehouse on May 14, 2008, 04:24:36 PM
    any idea as to where Loeffler went?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: haterinthehouse on May 14, 2008, 04:36:26 PM
    Bates?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on May 15, 2008, 11:26:50 AM
    Nope, that was my first guess, too, given the NESCAC connection.

    The answer is posted here (http://www.d3hoops.com/notables).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: haterinthehouse on May 15, 2008, 12:02:41 PM
    Why would Josh make that move.  I will admit that I dont know him well, have worked camps with him in the past.  But, I dont like this move for him.  LaFayette assistant???  I thought he was doing some very good things at Stevens and given a couple more years of consistent results he could have had a choice of better D3 or better head coaching jobs. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 15, 2008, 12:48:17 PM
    Now the question is who takes over the Stevens job. The assistant Hurley, I believe has been there a few years and seems to have been a part of this program growing.  This might be an easy transition for them.  Also, any other thoughts on the other coaching openings.  ;)       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: haterinthehouse on May 15, 2008, 12:53:19 PM
    I would think that it is very late for other quality head coaches to leave their current programs, but who knows there.  Probably a quality assistant coach from somewhere.  I doubt it will be a move from within the conference.  Maybe another assistant from the NESCAC.  But no names that come to me right now. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on May 15, 2008, 03:32:26 PM
    I don't think May 15 is too late for a decent coaching search.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: haterinthehouse on May 15, 2008, 06:44:37 PM
    I guess that when I look at that these things: camps will be starting soon, most schools have already begun recruiting for the class of 2009, you must preserve the current recruiting class, you will be stuck with whatever scheduling has been done or needs to be done - then yes I think it is getting late. 

    But then again, with recent events the way they are in the D3 and coaches moving around - I could always be wrong
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 16, 2008, 09:04:52 AM
    It all depends on how you look at this. It may not be too late as far as the school searching goes. If they make their decision within the next few weeks, they should be OK. BUT, if they get a coach from another school, ( especially a head coach) then that school is at a disadvantage...However this looks like it will be an assistant from some program nearby... If you look this should be an attractive head coaching job........ It's location is great.. near Manhattan. The campus is right on the river, and Hoboken is a great place for restaurants, shops etc. I love going down to the City for business and arranging it around an E8 game at Stevens...While it's a tough school to get into, recruiting wise it's an attractive program academically and athletically. It looks like the incoming coach has a real nice nucleus as well. 3 starters, Grey, Greco and Passalacua. All 3 can score, Grey could be E8 POY and Greco one of the better points in the league, (he has the ability to shoot and penetrate and plays tough man defense, with Farid gone he should be given the green light this year.) Passalaqua may be the best 3 point marksman in league. Baker and Higgans give tough defense and rebounding ability. Their weekness will be their bench. Do not know the recruiting situation.

    I still think Naz and Ithaca are the teams to beat... I look for Utica and Fisher to lose a step... RIT???? never can figure them.... I could change my mind before the season......... ;) 


       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mefor3again on May 19, 2008, 07:11:38 PM
    So Memorial Day is just about on us and we have 3 coaching openings in the E8.

    Any news on Alfred & Elmira? the only thing I have heard at Elmira is that there was a lot of interest in the job.

    Alfred seems strange, I now the coach moved over to the girls program, heard something about him coaching his daughter.

    Can either of those programs get some momentum going?   

    Stevens I would guess has to be a great D3 coaching job.  Great location, strong academics, I would guess it has a large and good pool of coaches looking at it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on May 20, 2008, 10:35:01 AM
    Quote from: mefor3again on May 19, 2008, 07:11:38 PM
    So Memorial Day is just about on us and we have 3 coaching openings in the E8.

    Any news on Alfred & Elmira? the only thing I have heard at Elmira is that there was a lot of interest in the job.

    Alfred seems strange, I now the coach moved over to the girls program, heard something about him coaching his daughter.

    Can either of those programs get some momentum going?   

    Stevens I would guess has to be a great D3 coaching job.  Great location, strong academics, I would guess it has a large and good pool of coaches looking at it.


    It seems like there would be a better chance to get things going in Alfred than Elmira, because AU has had good teams before, and the location is slightly better. Elmira is more metro, while Alfred is rural, but Elmira sucks as a city. And it's campus is not as nice as Alfred's, but the tradeoff is not being close to anything at AU.

    Stevens is obviously the best of the three positions, with the most left in the tank for a new head guy.

    I think Elmira's chances of getting something going is tougher than Alfred, for the reasons I listed above, but it really does come down to who is hired. With Alfred, the biggest thing is getting someone in there who can recruit, has some ability to game plan and can make in-game strategy changes — something that was lacking under the last head guy. Yes, he's moved on to the women's team (I guess they figured he'll keep the status quo there with a couple to five wins per season) and his daughter is transferring from St. John Fisher to AU to play for him.

    Still haven't heard much about either the Elmira or Alfred positions, as far as who may be involved. I was wondering if the people in forumland think these jobs would go to assistants or head coaches from other schools? Not familiar with how hiring processes at the D3 level go, whether a school would rather get an assistant looking for their first break, or a head coach looking to improve on their location. I guess it probably comes down to who has applied and their qualifications, but didn't know if one group was better than the other.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on May 20, 2008, 12:04:17 PM
    If I were a coach I think I'd rather be at Alfred than Elmira.

    It seems like Alfred has a better time recruiting athletes than Elmira does (based solely on some of the talent that has passed through the Football and Hoop programs) despite the fact that Elmira has nice athletic facilities.

    The good news is, turning around a hoop program is much easier than turning around a football or baseball program just because you need to get in fewer studs to make a quick change.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: BornBalla on May 20, 2008, 12:29:19 PM
    Elmira coach is set, assistant from NYU. Should be a great infusion of energy and recruiting to the program.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 20, 2008, 12:51:11 PM
    Viper good points, as usual, but you have to have some reason for going to Alfred other than hoops, Sports. What's the upside? Now with a new coach, probably no track record, and without that surrouding activities, I don't know. I know I'm from a long time ago era, but I' ve seen all the campus' in the E-8.  While Elmira may be a close 2nd. Alfred is tough.....BUT as I always say, what do I know?  ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: haterinthehouse on May 20, 2008, 01:17:07 PM
    Which NYU assistant got the job at Elmira? Torgalski? If so, not a bad choice.  Randie has plenty of experience and has had a great amount of success in upstate NY.  His background involves playing at the UR, coaching at Hamilton, and I believe he has been the top assistant at NYU. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on May 20, 2008, 01:22:10 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on May 20, 2008, 12:51:11 PMViper good points, as usual, but you have to have some reason for going to Alfred other than hoops, Sports. What's the upside? Now with a new coach, probably no track record, and without that surrouding activities, I don't know. I know I'm from a long time ago era, but I' ve seen all the campus' in the E-8.  While Elmira may be a close 2nd. Alfred is tough.....BUT as I always say, what do I know?  ;) 

    I agree about the lure of each school.  I was merely basing my opinion on the fact that Alfred seems to get players, for whatever reason.  I honestly don't know why people go there or don't.  The only part of the campus I have seen is the lockerroom and the gym.  I just remember them getting some good ballplayers in the past and getting some talented football players.  So there must be some draw (whatever it is).  I kind of assumed their recent tailspin was due more to the coach than the campus but I could be wrong.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on May 20, 2008, 02:02:37 PM
    Alfred campus better than Elmira?  You have to be kidding.  I agree the city of Elmira is not the greatest, but the campus itself and the facilities are very good...and the administrative support and academic scholarship money is there for any good coach to take advantage of. 

    Elmira is by far a better choice than Alfred  for any coach who is capable.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: MHoops on May 20, 2008, 03:13:40 PM
    Quote from: haterinthehouse on May 20, 2008, 01:17:07 PM
    Which NYU assistant got the job at Elmira? Torgalski? If so, not a bad choice.  Randie has plenty of experience and has had a great amount of success in upstate NY.  His background involves playing at the UR, coaching at Hamilton, and I believe he has been the top assistant at NYU. 

    The official press release is here.   (http://elmira.edu/athletics/news/2008/05/20/1125_0805201045-912?pageNumber=)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on May 20, 2008, 10:14:34 PM
    Quote from: TheNextLevel on May 20, 2008, 02:02:37 PM
    Alfred campus better than Elmira?  You have to be kidding.  I agree the city of Elmira is not the greatest, but the campus itself and the facilities are very good...and the administrative support and academic scholarship money is there for any good coach to take advantage of. 

    Elmira is by far a better choice than Alfred  for any coach who is capable.


    Calm down. 

    Re-read my posts.  I have no idea which campus is better.  I have never seen anything other than the gym (and AU's football stadium).  In fact, I think I said that EC had a nice facility.  I was merely saying that AU seems to have more success recruiting than EC in all sports and something must be contributing to that. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on May 21, 2008, 09:35:25 AM
    Jose

    I was responding to  "buck1053" comments, not yours.  Sorry for the confusion. 

    Your post was accurate, (at least in men's athletic's).  I don't understand why the men's team has not been able to recruit better either.
    Not having Football hurts, because football seems to bring a lot of intangeables to any campus.

    Hopefully Torgalski will be able to succeed.  I like the pick.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on May 21, 2008, 10:42:11 AM
    Quote from: TheNextLevel on May 21, 2008, 09:35:25 AM
    Jose

    I was responding to  "buck1053" comments, not yours.  Sorry for the confusion. 

    Your post was accurate, (at least in men's athletic's).  I don't understand why the men's team has not been able to recruit better either.
    Not having Football hurts, because football seems to bring a lot of intangeables to any campus.

    Hopefully Torgalski will be able to succeed.  I like the pick.

    No football hurts but, if I had to guess, I would say the biggest problem is likely financial aid.  If memory serves, a lot of d3 coaches say the final decision for recruits comes done to money (which isn't all that surprising).  Maybe AU is more active when it comes to fin. aid that Elmira is.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on May 21, 2008, 11:10:24 AM
    Money is not the problem. Elmira has great academic aid packages, but they stress the academic part.  They will not knowingly admit borderline students no matter what the athletic ability is.  Maybe that's the difference



    [/quote]

    No football hurts but, if I had to guess, I would say the biggest problem is likely financial aid.  If memory serves, a lot of d3 coaches say the final decision for recruits comes done to money (which isn't all that surprising).  Maybe AU is more active when it comes to fin. aid that Elmira is.
    [/quote]
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on May 21, 2008, 12:14:49 PM
    This post was on the NESCAC board for potential replacements for Dave Paulsen at Williams.

    Quote from: haterinthehouse on May 21, 2008, 08:30:44 AM
    To throw some names or idea's out there: Bill Fenlon head coach at DePauw, Greg Mason head coach from Centre, Tobin Anderson head coach at Hamilton and former assistant for Paulsen, Izzy Metz head coach at Hobart and former assistant at Cornell, Rob Kornacker head coach at St. John Fisher College, Todd Montana head coach at Green Mountain and former assistant at LeMoyne, Mike Beitzel former head coach at Hanover, and any number of possible assistant coaches. 

    Any of these names rumored for the open E8 jobs?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 21, 2008, 01:25:23 PM
    There has to be a lot of scrambling going on right now. With all the openings, and the possibilities of coaches leaving one program for another, leaving their position open, makes your head spin.  Those schools interviewing should make up their minds quickly, because the applicants, whoever they are, must be sending in resumes all over the place. It is going to create some good posts once the smoke settles. I am really interested in who get's the E-8 jobs....and of course Paulsens replacement.  My guess is an assistant current or past, but someone who comes from the program. Kornacker sort of fits the mold, BUT I think they want someone used to recruiting high I.Q. athletes. Loefler would have been a good fit, since he was there and he continued with the high I.Q. recruiting at Stevens. Wonder if he accepted Lafayette too quickly... Who knows maybe more money at Lafayette as an assistant, or a promise down the road??? Never know. My interest is in the incoming recruits as well. Anybody out there have anything?  ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on May 21, 2008, 08:58:13 PM
    I must say that I will be shocked if, Kornaker leaves, he has a solid program, a growing school, a supportive school, and he is local and has young kids, can't ask for much more if you ask me, does he deserve something better I think so, but Fisher is a good place
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on May 21, 2008, 09:24:40 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on May 21, 2008, 12:14:49 PM
    This post was on the NESCAC board for potential replacements for Dave Paulsen at Williams.

    Quote from: haterinthehouse on May 21, 2008, 08:30:44 AM
    To throw some names or idea's out there: Bill Fenlon head coach at DePauw, Greg Mason head coach from Centre, Tobin Anderson head coach at Hamilton and former assistant for Paulsen, Izzy Metz head coach at Hobart and former assistant at Cornell, Rob Kornacker head coach at St. John Fisher College, Todd Montana head coach at Green Mountain and former assistant at LeMoyne, Mike Beitzel former head coach at Hanover, and any number of possible assistant coaches. 

    Any of these names rumored for the open E8 jobs?

    For most of these Alfred is a step down, and I think Stevens is for many as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 22, 2008, 09:50:02 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 21, 2008, 09:24:40 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on May 21, 2008, 12:14:49 PM
    This post was on the NESCAC board for potential replacements for Dave Paulsen at Williams.

    Quote from: haterinthehouse on May 21, 2008, 08:30:44 AM
    To throw some names or idea's out there: Bill Fenlon head coach at DePauw, Greg Mason head coach from Centre, Tobin Anderson head coach at Hamilton and former assistant for Paulsen, Izzy Metz head coach at Hobart and former assistant at Cornell, Rob Kornacker head coach at St. John Fisher College, Todd Montana head coach at Green Mountain and former assistant at LeMoyne, Mike Beitzel former head coach at Hanover, and any number of possible assistant coaches. 

    Any of these names rumored for the open E8 jobs?

    For most of these Alfred is a step down, and I think Stevens is for many as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 22, 2008, 09:57:26 AM
    I'm not sure about that Pat. Alfred may be right now, but Stevens seems to be on a roll and nationally ranked for the better part of last year and some of the previous year. They have a good returning group. I think this is a step up in many cases, not for all, but for many of those names mentioned. Look at Loeffler, he moves on in two years, with ateam he really didn't put together. That being said, they probably should hire Bobby Hurley, the assistant. He was involved in putting this team together. But what do I know? ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on May 22, 2008, 11:52:23 AM
    And what was Stevens before this?
    And what did Stevens do in moving from an awful league to a mediocre league?
    Stevens is a long way from being a prime job in Division III. It is not better than DePauw, not better than Centre, not better than Hamilton and probably not better than St. John Fisher. That's why I said not better than "many."
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 22, 2008, 12:42:33 PM
    I'm certainly not going to carry Stevens torch, no reason to, BUT to be fair just the fact that you ask what Stevens WAS before this, means they must be something NOW. Those other programs have had their ups and downs, and your giving them props based on their ups. Well Stevens is now up, therefore I am giving them the props you give the other programs. As you state Stevens moved up in Conference affiliation, albeit from awful to mediocre, (your words). DePauw and Centre, you MAY be right, but Hamilton and Fisher, I can't agree. A coach looking to advance would certainly like to take over a program on the upswing, rather than the opposite, and Stevens seems to be in a location and have the advanced curriculum to attract some good recruits. Hey, then again, what do I know. Your the Guru...   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 22, 2008, 01:37:02 PM
    I forgot to answer the question as to what Stevens did in moving to the E-8. They finished tied for 1st...... ;)   I can't believe I'm battling for Stevens...... But I guess what's right is right... ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on May 22, 2008, 03:11:34 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on May 22, 2008, 12:42:33 PMDePauw and Centre, you MAY be right, but Hamilton and Fisher, I can't agree. A coach looking to advance would certainly like to take over a program on the upswing, rather than the opposite, and Stevens seems to be in a location and have the advanced curriculum to attract some good recruits. Hey, then again, what do I know. Your the Guru...   

    I'd take a closer look at Hamilton before making this argument.

    To me, Fisher is what it is because of Kornaker but that is at least a good job because the Administration is clearly prepared to support the Athletic Department.

    I am with Pat, I think Stevens is just an ok gig that had a good class come through.  If I were sending out coaching resumes, Stevens might not be in my top 5 wish list for NYS (I know, its in NJ, but since its in a NY based conference I just lumped it in) jobs.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on May 22, 2008, 03:41:19 PM
    ]

    I'd take a closer look at Hamilton before making this argument.

    [/quote]

    Especially if there is any truth to the rumor that Hamilton is looking at full NESCAC participation.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 23, 2008, 01:28:30 PM
    Hey guys, nobody here is trying to compare programs.. I did not bring up Hamilton or anyone else for that matter. I respoded to Pat Coleman mentioning the other colleges and comparing to Stevens program. My point is simple.. Stevens 5 years ago was nothing in basketball.  Their record has gotten better each year, they went to the sweet sixteen two years ago, and won the ECAC this year. They tied for first in the E-8 thier first year in. Their coach, took a step up after two years. They look like they may be as good this coming year.  That being said, and the fact that their academics are one of the best in the country, and where they are located, it looks pretty enticing to me..... No one has to agree or disagree, it is what it is...  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on May 23, 2008, 03:23:40 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on May 23, 2008, 01:28:30 PMThat being said, and the fact that their academics are one of the best in the country

    I was telling you to check Hamilton's academic profile but, since you didnt get that, I will help you out:

    Hamilton average student:

    Critical Reasoning: 680-750
    Math: 660-740
    Writing: 670-750

    84% in the top 10% of their high school graduating class.

    Stevens average student: (I couldn't find it on Stevens' site but found these same numbers in a few places)

    The average SAT score of Stevens is 1380 and 50% of the undergraduates come from the top 10% of their high school classes with an average high school GPA of 3.8. The average SAT score of the students in the Accelerated Pre-Medical program is 1430.

    Not sure any of that means anything for Athletics.




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on May 23, 2008, 03:36:18 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on May 23, 2008, 01:28:30 PM
    Hey guys, nobody here is trying to compare programs..

    I think we all are, including you. :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 24, 2008, 11:30:07 AM
    If you say so..........I guess I'm going to carry the Stevens torch for awhile... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on May 26, 2008, 11:50:33 AM
    Jose, I will agree that Fisher is where it is because of Kornaker, but If every coaching job in the E8 was open I would rank it as follows. (please note this is not based on the last year or two but more broadly)
    1) Fisher-They have always had a good basketball team, and the adminstration sees winning sports as a good thing.
    2) Ithaca-Great academics, new buildings on the way, and the class of the E8 in almost every sport
    3) RIT-again great academics, solid all around sports. D3 is all about getting a good degree, and you will certainly get that from RIT
    4) Stevens-same great academics, they have had success the last couple of years, will be curious to see where they will go with a new coach, but you do have to read into why would the coach leave for a low leval d1 assitant coach unless the adminstration wasn't overly supportive.
    5)Utica-came off a couple of strong years and a sweet 16 berth, though the coaching decision is certainly a head scratcher and will be interesting to see if they can keep of the success.
    6) Naz-an up and comming school, good academics and could defintaly compete for the next several years.
    7) Hartwick-well there is not much seperating these bottom 3 teams, but Coco Crisp is  potential savior for this program if they can continue to recruit like him
    8 and 9) really no difference between Alfred and Elmira,
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on May 26, 2008, 03:18:32 PM
    History alone within d3 basketball puts stevens very far behind, i believe 2 years ago was stevens 1st ever Ncaa tourny appearance.  Fisher has the most ncaa appearances out of any team in the country over the past 17 years (13). and other e8 schools have been there more times than stevens as well.  Hamilton's basketball program is richer than both fisher and stevens. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on May 26, 2008, 03:59:21 PM
    I think RIT and Stevens should be flopped in those rankings.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on May 26, 2008, 05:17:30 PM
    Pat not arguing here, but why do you think they should swap
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 27, 2008, 10:03:03 AM
     I guess listing the E-8 coaching positions creates some interesting conversation. I'm not sure we can can definitively say which jobs are more sort after than others with a few exceptions. I agree there are some that even some assistants wouldn't want. However any of the top 6 listed would be attractive to ANY assistants out there, and of course head coaches from obvious lower programs. However I don't think someone would apply for the Fisher job and not the Nazareth job ( used those two based on rankings below, #1 and #6). I think the post shows that all of the top 6 have some good things to offer for a coach. I believe the E-8 as a conference overall is on the upswing. We'll find out a lot about Fisher this year, since they lose quiet a bit. Since Ithaca basically remains intact, we can guage the other programs ability based on their match up with Ithaca compared to last year. Utica will be another interesting team to watch. I think the upgraded with the coaching change (my opinion), so we can watch how that plays out. You know my thoughts on Stevens, while I agree they came from out of nowhere, it's not like they have been bad, good and bad again.  They have risen consistantly over the last few years, despite the coaching changes. If we look at Stevens as a whole it appears ALL of their teams have been pretty successful over the same time period, which would show me support from the administration. I agree I can't figure Loeffler leaving for that job, BUT there may be more to it. It's location ( he's a Pennsylvania guy) or relationship to Lafayette staff? Who knows. RIT has always intrigued me. I can never figure them. There never an easy out yet they don't seem to get to the top.... The bottom three need GREAT recruiting classes to get them in the MIX. BUT they too can do it. It'll take some work...Look for the E-8 to a step better next year.....  Any word on any recruits to any of these programs/ Any word on candidates for coaches openings? ;)       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on May 27, 2008, 10:45:10 AM
    Fromafar, I think you are wrong, I think that Fisher is considered more prestigous and has a slightly higher coaching pool than Naz, and that is just because this has been Fishers league and Fisher has a strong basketball history
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on May 27, 2008, 10:58:09 AM
    I agree and disagree with some of what's been said regarding the Stevens job.  Like Fromafar said, if you look at all of the Stevens sports teams, particularly mens/womens soccer, womens volleyball, and mens lacrosse...they've all grown into national powers (soccer perennial top 10/15, lacrosse top 25, same with volleyball) and I think Stevens facility was just upgraded as recently as 2 years ago.  So from that trend, athletics seems to be a priority.

    Now, looking only at basketball...you've seen the wins in the last 5 years go from 8 to 13 to 15 to 23 to 24, with the last 2 years being under Loeffler and including a sweet 16 trip and an ECAC championship.  You would say positive trend, except that Loeffler was dealt a loaded roster that ended up rewriting the Stevens record books.  Look at what Loeffler has graduated in his years:


    All Time Career Leader in Blocked Shots (Michael Collins, class of 2007)
    All Time Career Leader in Assists (Floyd Morris, class of 2007)
    All Time Career Leader in Points, Steals, Rebounds (Waleed Farid, class of 2008)
    All Time Career Leader in Field Goal Percentage and 1,000 pt scorer (Tim Williams, class of 2008)


    ...not to mention that he also had Virgil Gray (class of 2009), who will more than likely break Farid's All Time Scoring mark some time in the middle of this season and Anthony Passalacqua (class of 2009), who will probably finish as a 1,000 pt scorer himself and All Time Career Leader in Three Pointers Made.  Between Collins, Morris, Farid, Williams, and Gray, plus Passalacqua, Stevens' climb into the national level can really be looked at as simply having one really good stretch in recruiting.  Not to take anything away from the job Loeffler did, but I'm pretty sure most decent coaches could've inherited those 6 and had pretty successful seasons.  The real test for Stevens basketball, as a program and as an attractive job, will be seeing what happens this year and next, when the 3 "power classes" (can't think of another way to put that) have graduated.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 27, 2008, 11:37:09 AM
    Superman, what I'm trying to relate is, anyone applyng for the Fisher job, would also apply for the Nazareth job.  (again only using those 2 programs because they were rated 1 and 6). I believe the same holds true for any of the other 4 teams listed in top 6. I don't think the difference is like Kentucky compared to Mississippi State. All these programs are close enough......

    Cyclone... you really do your homework. I agree that Loeffler did it with what he was dealt, and next year more than  this one coming up will be a better baraometer as to his recruiting, since Gray, Greco, Baker, Higgans and Passalaqua are not his recruits.  BUT let me lay this out concerning those that graduated. Being the all time leader at Stevens in categories right now may not be an appropriate baramoter. Remember they do not have much basketball history until now.  Collins blocked shots were in the Skyline, which Pat Coleman has mentioned as weak, so maybe that's skewed a bit. Floyd Morris, again not against as tough competition, and not really a scorer....Walid Farid, leaving will be interesting. Had some great numbers, BUT his scoring, shooting %  went down while turn overs went up, while playing in E-8.  The team looked a little handcuffed (in particular Gray, when Loeffler was here). It appeared he had a system and no matter what the talents of the players, they had to conform. That works when you don't have talent. I think they have talent. They will certainly miss Williams. Can never have enough inside strength an consistancy inside.

    I don't know who they recruited, as well as not knowing who anyone else recruited. I have no inside track on any of these schools. I think in Stevens case we will see some exciting basketball with Gray (a slasher and good defender) Greco (a court savvy guard who can shoot from anywhere, penetrate and play pesky defense)  Pasalacua who may be the best shooter in the league.  Higgans who is a tough a kid as there is and never stops moving, and rebounds well, and Baker who can jump out of the gym, and play defense at times... Offensively he is erratic.  Their question marks will be the bench, WHICH IS WHERE WE FIND OUT ABOUT LOEFLLERS RECRUITING AND IF CYCLONE IS CORRECT>>>> WHICH HE MAY BE.... THOSE ABOVE EXCEPT BAKER ARE NOT LOEFFLERS RECRUITS>

    I am not by any means trying to dismiss the records of those Stevens Grauates... they may stamnd for many years and I congradulte them for good careers. ;)


           
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on May 27, 2008, 11:53:03 AM
    Quote from: TheNextLevel on May 20, 2008, 02:02:37 PM
    Alfred campus better than Elmira?  You have to be kidding.  I agree the city of Elmira is not the greatest, but the campus itself and the facilities are very good...and the administrative support and academic scholarship money is there for any good coach to take advantage of. 

    Elmira is by far a better choice than Alfred  for any coach who is capable.


    Wow, Pep has been missing out on all this E8 chatter over here on the basketball boards. But Pep must respond to this post with a first-hand story.

    You see, Pep works at Herrick Library on the beautiful Alfred University campus. Pep often sees folks from all over the country touring the campus. Pep recalls one family from Ohio who had traveled to the Southern Tier to visit Elmira College. On their return to Ohio, they'd take Exit 33 off I-86 and take a peek at Alfred University. Pep chatted with them and they raved of the Alfred University campus. They told Pep that they "had been told of Elmira's beautiful campus but found it fell far short of the online description. However, the AU campus was more of what they had envisioned at Elmira."

    Pep is not familiar with Elmira's athletic facilities. Pep admits that AU has got to improve its facilities and it appears the trustees are moving quickly in that direction with talk of an addition of an indoor track/multipurpose rec facility on the north end of McLane Center. In fact, the AU Student Senate got things moving when it unanimously passed a resolution insisting that AU delay demolition of Davis Gym until adequate facilities are constructed to meet the needs of all groups currently using Davis.

    Re: the AU campus, Pep has been told by several students, when asked, "Why Alfred?" that when they visited the campus, it was the clincher. They love the campus. They feel comfortable here.

    Pep is hoping that AU can land a men's coach that can rebuild the basketball program. And as for Kornaker, the only draw at AU would be the fact that he's an AU alum. No doubt would be a step down for him but hey, you just never know.  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on May 27, 2008, 11:59:58 AM
    Oh Fromafar, I definitely agree that just because you have records at Stevens doesn't exactly mean you have been a spectacular player.  I was just using that as an example because it is very rare that you would have 1 team (or I guess two technically..the 06-07 sweet 16 team and the 07-08 ECAC champ team) that literally left with EVERY major statistical category at a school.  Even if the records themselves aren't overly impressive, just the fact that that one group of guys played together and now currently hold (or will hold) them all shows Loeffler inherited easily the most talented team Stevens had ever had.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 27, 2008, 12:35:26 PM
    Cyclone, well put.......agreed! ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on May 27, 2008, 01:34:22 PM
    Quote from: superman57 on May 26, 2008, 05:17:30 PM
    Pat not arguing here, but why do you think they should swap

    Because Stevens is basically just as good a school as RIT and has more recent basketball success.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on May 27, 2008, 07:08:08 PM
    Pat, I agree and you could probalbly filpflop anyone 2-6
    Fromafar, Fisher imho is above and beyond Naz, while someone applying for the Naz job might also try for the Fisher job, I think Fisher is more of a national job than Naz is
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on May 27, 2008, 08:46:32 PM
    A good way to tell how good of a coaching position is the amount of pride the school puts into its program, backing it with $.  Example:  Hamilton & Hobart and other liberty league schools tend to pay much more than E8.  Fisher recently has upped its anty to match those schools however still below UofR and an Amherst.  I think out of all the E8 schools fisher pays the best and allows for the most paid assistants which is a big deal for a head coach allowing for better recruiting and more flexibility.  I would think Ithaca would pay well but they dont seem to care much about basketball.  RIT pays well and is a solid program so i would put that position above Nazareth. Don't know much about Stevens just know the program is just starting to become good and lacrosse is the sport there, so im thinking the basketball coach isnt the job of choice there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 28, 2008, 09:24:56 AM
    FisherDynasty, absolutely no argument from me. The higher the pay the more coveted the job ???.......funny how that works...... I have absolutely no idea the pay scale of any of these jobs...   ??? I would love to know who is involved in the E-8 openings..... Also when we can expect to hear.  Also any recruiting info?  ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on May 29, 2008, 09:05:59 AM
    Okay, Pep has learned that there's a pool of 90 candidates for the AU men's head basketball coaching position, which has been narrowed to about a dozen, with six of those expected to be invited to campus to interview. Pep's source says there are some good candidates in the mix.  :)

    Pep adds that an instructional librarian position had a candidate pool of about the same size for starters.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mefor3again on May 29, 2008, 11:01:34 AM

    AUPEP!!!

    Any word on names of who might get an interview?


    My sources tell me that you were selected from a much larger pool of candidates for the instructional librarian position.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on May 29, 2008, 12:52:05 PM
    Pep did not (and will not) ask his source to drop any names. Pep would like to be drawing the salary of an instructional librarian. Library assistants, unfortunately, still carry the stigma of being a "faculty wife" position and are reimbursed as such, regardless of gender and changes in technology over the years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on May 29, 2008, 08:11:20 PM
    Caught up on about 5 pages of posts just now. One tip: use paragraphs. I skip posts that have more than 15 lines in one paragraph. A few comments I noted that I just can't let slide:

    "Virgil Gray could be E8 POY next year."

    Sure, I suppose if Sean Burton, Jeff Bostic, Corey MacAdam, and Doug Herring all break limbs or get into a terrible accident, Gray may be POY. In all seriousness, Burton was a 2nd team All-American and Corey MacAdam puts up absurd numbers. Let's not get carried away here. Gray is a slasher and a very good scorer, but he is not a Burton or a Corey MacAdam.

    "Greco is one of the best PG's in the E8."

    Off the top of my head, I'd guess he's 4th, at best. Give me the aforementioned Burton and MacAdam, as well as Doug Herring any day of the week before Greco. I'd even consider Newman over Greco, too. In other words, whenever Stevens plays another top team in the conference, they will not have the better of the PG matchup.

    "Utica and Fisher will take a step back next year."

    First, I don't think Fisher will be far off what they were this year. Secondly, no way Utica takes a step back next year. Herring returns and they lose next to nobody of any importance. They were extremely young last year and still finished the season as arguably the hottest team in the E8, barely missing the E8 Tourney. You all know that I'm constantly in conflict with UCgrad but, begrudgingly, I must admit that Utica will be a top team in the E8 next season. Here's how I think the levels of the E8 will look next year:

    Ithaca
    Utica
    Naz
    --------
    Stevens
    Fisher
    --------
    RIT
    --------
    Hartwick
    Elmira
    --------
    Alfred

    I hope everybody is enjoying their summer thus far.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 30, 2008, 07:48:53 AM
    Welcome back BOMBER, this maks it all worth while........ As far as paragraph control, good luck. As far as the rest, I guess we can argue all summer... we'll have to wait and see. 

    As far as Gray POY, I guess my point is, I believe Stevens will be right there ( you can argue that because I don't even know who their coach is). IF THEY ARE, it will be because of Gray and Greco. Therefore my props for Greco. As far as Greco goes, I don't know if you have seen him in person. If the new coach let's him play his game, ( see the 1st game at Nazareth, and the first game against Ithaca, first game against Utica last year) he is right there with the rest...Ask Burton about his defense.(See second Ithaca game.)  But we can go back and forth, and I agree you have more stats and history to win the argument, I guess I am just trying to stir the juices here, which appears I did. After all, that's what these posts are all about. Stevens has two BIG question marks, Who's coaching and who's rebounding.. those two issues can prove you right about where they finish.

    What I don't like about Mc Adams are his turnovers. He has a million assists, which is great, but also has a million turnovers.......  I don't consider Herring a guard, he is of the COCO genre. Maybe that will change with a new coach.. No argument about Burton....Newman...... now you lose some credibility....   

    New paragraph.. I have not really let my REAL ALLEGIANCE been known in my posts, since I am a bit superstitious, BUT it's killing me... I am an RIT guy..  I just can't figure them out, never could..... any positive notes on next years team?

    Again, welcome back Bomber, your one of the best...... ;)     


     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on May 30, 2008, 09:23:11 AM
    As for RIT, I have heard that two kids from Oneonta are headed there.  Dan O'brien and Brandon Harter.  O'Brien could have an impact.  He's 6'3"-6'4" and a good shooter.  Harter is taller but needs to put on some muscle.  All prefaced by saying I have not seen either play in a year, so they could both be crippled and blind. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on May 30, 2008, 10:18:17 AM
    I think Harter has more upside potential.  O'Brien was a very good HS player but can be shut down by a good defender and may have trouble handling  the physical play at the college level.  Hopefully I am wrong and they both will excel.


    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on May 30, 2008, 09:23:11 AM
    As for RIT, I have heard that two kids from Oneonta are headed there.  Dan O'brien and Brandon Harter.  O'Brien could have an impact.  He's 6'3"-6'4" and a good shooter.  Harter is taller but needs to put on some muscle.  All prefaced by saying I have not seen either play in a year, so they could both be crippled and blind. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on May 30, 2008, 01:26:18 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on May 29, 2008, 12:52:05 PM
    Pep did not (and will not) ask his source to drop any names. Pep would like to be drawing the salary of an instructional librarian. Library assistants, unfortunately, still carry the stigma of being a "faculty wife" position and are reimbursed as such, regardless of gender and changes in technology over the years.

    Even if you didn't ask your source for names, any thoughts on who may be in mix?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on May 30, 2008, 01:44:39 PM
    The situation at Alfred sounds to me like it's turning into a debacle!  How is it that the position has been open and posted now for over a month and noone has even been interviewed??  Correct me if Im wrong, but isn't their some serious recruiting done over the summer?  How is that getting done when the school has noone as it's face of the program?!  Hopefully the process gets sped up and resolved for the sake of the new coach, the returning players, and the future of their program!  2 other E8 schools (Elmira and Utica) have moved on and I'm sure Stevens will be next to the punch!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mefor3again on May 30, 2008, 01:55:32 PM

    I am not sure it is as bad as that, Stevens and Williams are currently open and we don't know where either are in the process.  I think Bates has been open for a lot longer.

    That being said, I would think that Alfred should be moving to get someone soon, especially if they have already narrowed the list like PEP has offered.

    Alfred strikes me as a job for an assistant coach looking to move into the head coaching ranks, a factor that may make the process a little longer too-where a Utica/Stevens job seems more a target for other head coaches.

    Would still love to hear some names though
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 30, 2008, 02:23:59 PM
    I have to say, once the new coaches are hired, the fur is really going to fly on the posts....... it should be fun..... Wish I knew some of the candidates as well..... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on May 30, 2008, 02:37:23 PM
    Quote from: Razor on May 30, 2008, 01:44:39 PM
    The situation at Alfred sounds to me like it's turning into a debacle!  How is it that the position has been open and posted now for over a month and noone has even been interviewed??  Correct me if Im wrong, but isn't their some serious recruiting done over the summer?  How is that getting done when the school has noone as it's face of the program?!  Hopefully the process gets sped up and resolved for the sake of the new coach, the returning players, and the future of their program!  2 other E8 schools (Elmira and Utica) have moved on and I'm sure Stevens will be next to the punch!

    I believe today was the application deadline.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on May 31, 2008, 05:25:53 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on May 30, 2008, 07:48:53 AM
    Welcome back BOMBER, this maks it all worth while........ As far as paragraph control, good luck. As far as the rest, I guess we can argue all summer... we'll have to wait and see. 

    As far as Gray POY, I guess my point is, I believe Stevens will be right there ( you can argue that because I don't even know who their coach is). IF THEY ARE, it will be because of Gray and Greco. Therefore my props for Greco. As far as Greco goes, I don't know if you have seen him in person. If the new coach let's him play his game, ( see the 1st game at Nazareth, and the first game against Ithaca, first game against Utica last year) he is right there with the rest...Ask Burton about his defense.(See second Ithaca game.)  But we can go back and forth, and I agree you have more stats and history to win the argument, I guess I am just trying to stir the juices here, which appears I did. After all, that's what these posts are all about. Stevens has two BIG question marks, Who's coaching and who's rebounding.. those two issues can prove you right about where they finish.

    What I don't like about Mc Adams are his turnovers. He has a million assists, which is great, but also has a million turnovers.......  I don't consider Herring a guard, he is of the COCO genre. Maybe that will change with a new coach.. No argument about Burton....Newman...... now you lose some credibility....   

    New paragraph.. I have not really let my REAL ALLEGIANCE been known in my posts, since I am a bit superstitious, BUT it's killing me... I am an RIT guy..  I just can't figure them out, never could..... any positive notes on next years team?

    Again, welcome back Bomber, your one of the best...... ;)     

    First off, thanks for the kind words. I'm sure some don't share the same sentiments (several Fisher fans, UCgrad, et al.), but I do appreciate it. I try to keep to keep my tone moderate when I talk about Ithaca and their players, even though I have been accused otherwise. I do speak in glowing terms about guys like Burton, but that's only because by the time that he's done, he'll probably break almost every relevant record at IC and be the best PG this conference has ever seen (with apologies to Sean O'Brien, who I've known since we both played at the local YMCA when we were little tikes). In general, I think boards like this get hijacked by those with extreme positions (you know who they are) and I just try to temper that a bit. Glad you appreciate it.

    Secondly, re: Newman. I'm not sure how saying that I'd consider taking Newman over Greco makes me lose credibility. Let's look at their conference numbers from last year since that is the best frame of reference:

    Matt Newman: 9.1 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 3.3 apg, 48% FG%, 34% 3pt%, 78% FT, 1.3 spg, 2.1 assist: TO

    George Greco: 7.3 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 3.2 apg, 38% FG%, 32% 3pt%, 73% FT, 1.3 spg, 2.6 assist: TO

    Newman was actually better across-the-board with the exception of the minute difference in the assist-to-TO ratios. Along with Corey MacAdam, Newman was the only guard in the top 15 for FG% (considered Gray a SF). He is probably one of the best rebounding guards in the league, if not the best. From seeing both, I don't see a marked difference in their defense. Burton had some success against both guys; Greco bothered him in the 2nd matchup but Burton also got him into foul trouble, while Burton had huge games against Fisher during the regular season, but a terrible game in the E8 Semis. I didn't make a bold statement that Newman WAS better than Greco, only that I'd consider Newman over Greco. Seeing those numbers actually made me more confident in that position.

    Third, re: your problem with MacAdam's TO's, I think the concern about "how much" he turns it over is unfounded. As you said, "he gets a ton of assists." The huge assist numbers more than offset those TO's. In fact, MacAdam had the second best assist-to-TO ratio in the conference (Colin Roy was tops). Look at it statistically: say his assists (8.8 per) lead to 19 pts/game for Naz, but his TO's (3.8 per) take away approximately 4 pts/game (and that's prob even too high), MacAdam was still a +15 when he wasn't doing the scoring. We're not even including the amount of passes leading directly to FT's for which he is not given credit for an assist. Now, look at Greco. Say his 3.2 assists lead to 7 Stevens points, and his TO's cost Stevens 2 points. Greco is only a +5. Now, despite the fact Greco turns it over less, I don't think I have to ask which you'd rather have. Throw in MacAdam's scoring ability and he's a heck of a player. I think TO's are one of the more overrated statistics in basketball a la batting average in baseball. It just doesn't tell the whole story.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on May 31, 2008, 07:51:00 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 30, 2008, 02:37:23 PM
    Quote from: Razor on May 30, 2008, 01:44:39 PM
    The situation at Alfred sounds to me like it's turning into a debacle!  How is it that the position has been open and posted now for over a month and noone has even been interviewed??  Correct me if Im wrong, but isn't their some serious recruiting done over the summer?  How is that getting done when the school has noone as it's face of the program?!  Hopefully the process gets sped up and resolved for the sake of the new coach, the returning players, and the future of their program!  2 other E8 schools (Elmira and Utica) have moved on and I'm sure Stevens will be next to the punch!

    I believe today was the application deadline.

    Debacle? Wow! The position was posted externally on May 7, 2008. They've received 90 applications, narrowed the field to 12 and hope to interview six. Pep will say that he asked his source whether the candidates were all assistants or there were some experienced head coaches in the field. Pep was pleased to hear there are some very good experienced head coaches on the list. No names to drop, however. Sorry, all.....  :-X
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on May 31, 2008, 10:21:54 PM
    gb15, ya know I've got your back
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on June 02, 2008, 09:42:16 AM
    Bomber, I wrote a lengthy reply and somehow lost it...  Tough getting old. I'll try again. If you see 2 posts down the road you'll know why.

    Let me start by saying your right about a propensity for selling our own interests. However I think we all can see through that easily. I enjoy when we talk about the other schools and give credit where it belongs. As you do to Mc Adams and Newman, while it has to rub you the wrong way....

    On the Greco, Newman comparison... I've seen them both in person and on telecasts....I first saw Greco ( in person) at RIT in the beginning of the year. He clearly was creating havoc for us (RIT), and seemed to be in complete control. I really didn't know much about him, but heard he had a good run in the NCAA tourney the year before, albeit off the bench.  I believe he ended up with 9 or 10 points, and like a few other Stevens players that night, got into foul trouble, cutting his playing time substantially.

    Then I saw him at  Nazareth ( in person).  What a job...Naz led by quite a bit late, and McAdam gave the ball away quite a bit and let Stevens back in. With 12 seconds left, after a time out, Stevens was obviously looking for Farid or Grey and the world knew it. Nazareth had both shut down pretty well, and Greco made a crossover move to the hole and double pumped on the Naz big for the tying layup. He then created a turnover on the NAZ in-bound giving Stevens a chance with 2 ticks left. In the double overtime he had about 7-8 points with some crucial 3's.

    In the first Ithaca game. He made a close game get away from your guys, with some incredible assists and hit a few 3's, and stole one after a bomber time out for an easy lay-up putting the game away.

    Hey I'm not saying he is the best, I just like his Court Savvy and guts. Clearly McAdam and Burton are the barometers, but I think this kid will have a good year. I think Stevens losing Waleed, or Fareed, ( never knew what they called him) might actually open this team up. While he had some good numbers, they seemed locked into him, and that's why I think Grey will have a much better year as well. Greco and Pasalaqua will get more shots off as well.   The new coach is KEY here....... 

    Newman has some nice numbers, but doesn't really dictate the game enough. He's good, but not enough flair for me.

    I think you guys will be tough, if your bigs show up every night you'll be even better.

    I don't think NAZ will miss Canori as much as most think.. While his points were great, I think a lot of NAZ's late droughts were due to looking to Canori too much. If they actually open up more, Mc Adams may have even better numbers.

    If Utica can make Herring more than one dimentional, ( ala Coco) they too will be tough........

    RIT will go undefeated and win the National Championship, with a little luck........ ;)           

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 05, 2008, 10:39:45 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on May 31, 2008, 07:51:00 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 30, 2008, 02:37:23 PM
    Quote from: Razor on May 30, 2008, 01:44:39 PM
    The situation at Alfred sounds to me like it's turning into a debacle!  How is it that the position has been open and posted now for over a month and noone has even been interviewed??  Correct me if Im wrong, but isn't their some serious recruiting done over the summer?  How is that getting done when the school has noone as it's face of the program?!  Hopefully the process gets sped up and resolved for the sake of the new coach, the returning players, and the future of their program!  2 other E8 schools (Elmira and Utica) have moved on and I'm sure Stevens will be next to the punch!

    I believe today was the application deadline.


    Debacle? Wow! The position was posted externally on May 7, 2008. They've received 90 applications, narrowed the field to 12 and hope to interview six. Pep will say that he asked his source whether the candidates were all assistants or there were some experienced head coaches in the field. Pep was pleased to hear there are some very good experienced head coaches on the list. No names to drop, however. Sorry, all.....  :-X


    I'm guessing you don't want to drop any names lest you upset your source. Want to give up any hints, though?

    I heard the head coach from the other Alfred college is among the candidates, heard anything about that?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mefor3again on June 06, 2008, 10:15:30 AM

    Any new info on Alfred and Stevens?

    AUPep seems to have the best news coming out of Alfred, have they interviewed yet?

    A coaching friend told me that the assistant at Steven's is the most likely hire there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on June 09, 2008, 10:50:56 AM
    Pep was out of town for the weekend but will likely see "the source" sometime this week for an update. No names to drop....but "stay tuned."

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on June 11, 2008, 06:08:16 AM
    In looking at the UR schedule, I noticed that they do not play Fisher this year, unless they match up in the Chase.  Is that unusual?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: superman57 on June 11, 2008, 11:59:31 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on June 11, 2008, 06:08:16 AM
    In looking at the UR schedule, I noticed that they do not play Fisher this year, unless they match up in the Chase.  Is that unusual?
    no it's not unsual, I believe the contract was for a home and home, and fisher got them in the 06-07 season...so they probably decided to not renew the contract, though who knows...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on June 11, 2008, 12:51:45 PM
    Are we even certain the schedules are final?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on June 11, 2008, 01:05:29 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on June 11, 2008, 12:51:45 PM
    Are we even certain the schedules are final?

    The UofR schedule looks pretty complete.  With a possible matchup with Ithaca the second game of the year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on June 15, 2008, 03:58:03 AM
    Word from a second source close to the situation is that the selection process for a new head coach of men's basketball at Alfred University has narrowed to a pool of FIVE candidates. Heck, take all of 'em and you've got a coaching team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 15, 2008, 04:21:26 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on June 15, 2008, 03:58:03 AM
    Word from a second source close to the situation is that the selection process for a new head coach of men's basketball at Alfred University has narrowed to a pool of FIVE candidates. Heck, take all of 'em and you've got a coaching team.


    Still not going to give up any names or hints, though, right?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mefor3again on June 15, 2008, 08:55:51 PM

    Pep-have they interviewed the five yet? I heard that there will be some players leaving/have already left....anything on that?

    if not names, some background in general on your five.......
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on June 16, 2008, 12:59:33 PM
    Alright, Pep chatted with Source #1 (member of search committee) who did not confirm other source's info that pool had been narrowed to five. In fact, there are now ten finalists with that to be reduced this week.

    Pep has no names to drop. Even if Pep had names to drop, he'd hold them pretty close.

    Pep can confirm that freshman starter Ellis Walsh (Penfield) is leaving AU in order to play volleyball at Naz. But that decisioni has little to do with a coaching change. Walsh is a competitive volleyball player. Fact is, Pep, a member of the 2008 AU Intramural Volleyball Championship Team Rafte, had one occasion to play against the 6-7 Ellis Walsh on the volleyball court and won a point with a tip shot (looked more like a tennis lob) over the leaping giant.

    Walsh is a top notch kid, a regular at the library, and Pep wishes him all the best with his volleyball career. His loss will be felt at AU.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on June 17, 2008, 11:51:54 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on June 11, 2008, 01:05:29 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on June 11, 2008, 12:51:45 PM
    Are we even certain the schedules are final?

    The UofR schedule looks pretty complete.  With a possible matchup with Ithaca the second game of the year.

    If history is any indicator, the Bombers would likely be without Jeff Bostic for any such game. Not saying IC would win with Bostic in the lineup, but it would certainly be a lot more competitive.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on June 18, 2008, 09:57:40 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on June 17, 2008, 11:51:54 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on June 11, 2008, 01:05:29 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on June 11, 2008, 12:51:45 PM
    Are we even certain the schedules are final?

    The UofR schedule looks pretty complete.  With a possible matchup with Ithaca the second game of the year.

    If history is any indicator, the Bombers would likely be without Jeff Bostic for any such game. Not saying IC would win with Bostic in the lineup, but it would certainly be a lot more competitive.

    I think I heard Bostic isn't playing football next year. Anyone know for sure?? Also, UR is going to struggle next year. Lost Onyiruka, Nbizu and their big guy off the bench. It will be interesting to see who UR brings in next year to fill that HUGE void.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on June 19, 2008, 08:07:27 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on June 18, 2008, 09:57:40 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on June 17, 2008, 11:51:54 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on June 11, 2008, 01:05:29 PM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on June 11, 2008, 12:51:45 PM
    Are we even certain the schedules are final?

    The UofR schedule looks pretty complete.  With a possible matchup with Ithaca the second game of the year.

    If history is any indicator, the Bombers would likely be without Jeff Bostic for any such game. Not saying IC would win with Bostic in the lineup, but it would certainly be a lot more competitive.

    I think I heard Bostic isn't playing football next year. Anyone know for sure?? Also, UR is going to struggle next year. Lost Onyiruka, Nbizu and their big guy off the bench. It will be interesting to see who UR brings in next year to fill that HUGE void.

    They are bringing in pretty much all "bigs" in this class.  Plus Roberson got some pretty good minutes last year.  That being said, I would bet the style of play at UR may change, at least for a year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on June 19, 2008, 10:10:22 AM
    Haven't heard anything about Bostic but that would be surprising.  He projects to be a starting WR in the fall.  (Some think, of course, he has been grossly underused in the previous falls, maybe he is fed up with waiting to play.)  Bomber Football projects to have a great year though and it is hard to see a competitive kid missing out on that.

    I think UR has done enough that it is safe to assume that they will simply reload.  If they have a down year, that can be reevaluated.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on June 19, 2008, 10:23:27 AM
    While this may generate the usual objections from Fisher fans, Pep would say the Bombers should be the favorites to win both the E8 football and basketball titles in 2008-09. Bostic would certainly play a major role in both.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 19, 2008, 12:35:05 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on June 19, 2008, 10:23:27 AM
    While this may generate the usual objections from Fisher fans, Pep would say the Bombers should be the favorites to win both the E8 football and basketball titles in 2008-09. Bostic would certainly play a major role in both.


    I wonder what Fisher fans would say if their coach were to leave for another job before next season starts.

    There's a pretty good job open to the northeast of SJF that I've heard Kornaker mentioned for, and it's not in the E8. Would think if he's interested in advancing his career he's probably trying to get it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on June 19, 2008, 12:50:42 PM
    PEP, Fisher fans may have an ax in football, but as far as hoopsm there reign in Hoops go, they have work to do. Vying for tourney beside the Bombers, will be Naz, Stevens, Utica and My beloved RIT (my heart picking). So with Fisher that is 5 teams with an  honest chance if we don't count RIT.  That being said, not knowing much about recruits, that could change a bit. But the core is there for most of these teams.. Stevens needs a coach, that will play into the mix as well. Anyone know who interviewed, and when that should come out. There has to be someone from Stevens out there...As you know, I sort of adopted them as my second team, since I get a chance now and then to see them in Hoboken. 118 days to Midnight Madness... ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on June 19, 2008, 02:23:03 PM
    My guess is Fisher, Stevens and Ithaca will battle for the E8 Title. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: hoopsman on June 19, 2008, 05:02:34 PM
    My contact told me yesterday that Alfred U. is phone interviewing some of the candidates today trying to put together a short list, 2 head coaches and 2 assistant coaches are interviewing.  It's about time they did something, it has been 4 weeks since the deadline for applications, maybe by Aug. 1 they will be down to 2 - 3 candidates.  That should help recruiting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on June 20, 2008, 07:46:12 AM
    If it doesnt have the football program associated to, then they don't really prioritize it down there.  It's just a shame for the new coach that they'll already be starting behind the 8ball.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on June 20, 2008, 08:46:41 AM
    Quote from: TheNextLevel on June 19, 2008, 02:23:03 PM
    My guess is Fisher, Stevens and Ithaca will battle for the E8 Title. 

    NextLevel - you've got to be joking? Fisher? Stevens? They both lose so much (Tech - Farid, Williams. SJFC- Beigel, Smalt, Bearden...) and have not too much firepower coming back. I'd consider RIT, Utica and returning champs Nazareth as contenders wayy before Fisher and Stevens.

    Just my two cents here.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: hoopsman on June 20, 2008, 08:56:18 AM
    here's the scoop on the AU job.  They finally after 4 weeks phone interviewed 11 candidates yesterday in hopes of having that list down to 5 - 6 to interview on campus probably after the 4th of JULY.  So much for the new guy being able to recruit for this year.  Sources tell me that one of the stronger candidates, Andy Moore from Pitt-Bradford and long time assistant at SJF IS NOT getting an  interview.  Apparently the former coach who won 2 games last year doesn't get along with him.  Makes alot of sense especially since 2 of Andy's sons, a freshman and sophomore, would transfer to AU and instantly help them win 10 games.  Looks like AU is on track to win another 20 games over the next 6 years.  Hey good luck saxons, you will need it.  Here's an idea have jay Murphy coach both Women's and Men's teams next year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on June 20, 2008, 10:28:04 AM
    Obviously you dont know what kind of guy you're getting with Andy Moore??!  The previous AU coach isn't the only coach in our area who doesn't have a fondness for him.  Several well-respected coaches in our area feel the same way because of the way he carries himself.  And what, AU is suppose to hire the guy because he'll brings his 2 sons along with him??  Seriously, get a clue!  You obviously need to expand your range of "sources."  I know several of the names being interviewed and AU would be in good hands with many of them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on June 20, 2008, 10:53:29 AM
    I feel like I am in bizarro world.  Who would ever guess that Alfred searching for a new men's hoop coach would generate such heavy discussion in June?  +k to all involved.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: hoopsman on June 20, 2008, 11:47:26 AM
    I know Andy Moore well and know what type of person he is and know what you are talking about but the guy knows what he is doing as a coach, doesn't that at least warrant a phone interview at the least.  My source is actually on the committee so I think I know what i am talking about.  bringing his 2 sons does not mean they have to hire him but if AU is serious about winning in basketball, which obviously they havent been by keeping Jay Murphy around so long, then they would at least phone interview him.  i know most of the names that are being considered and know half of them personally and you are right they would be OK but Jay Murphy was Ok too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on June 20, 2008, 12:54:30 PM
    This is fabulous, Viper you are great... Bizarro world is the perfect word for all of this, BUT hey that's what makes this one of the best POST sights out there. I find it interesting how each of us are so positive on our views, and someone else positive the other way, and both usually make excellent points. It's like arguing politics. So just to keep it going,  RAZOR, thanks for the RIT support...... I hope your right. As far as my adopted son's Stevens, talk about bizzaro world, here it goes. I think the loss of Farid and Williams makes this team Better... Hold on, don't go off on me. The few times I saw Stevens, I noticed Farid and Williams kind of slowed them down. Farid would hold the ball for long periods of time and then loft a 3 ( he shot about 29% from 3 land, not much more, that's my guess). When Williams was in, the offense slowed down again to find him. Rightfully so, but when Farid was out, Gray Greco and Pass opened it up a bit and that's when they had big spurts... in the games I saw. In fairness I saw only maybe 12 of their games in total. So take it for what it's worth. I think Loeffler held them back a bit too. He seemed to dislike the open floor game.  I think with the right coach and just one immediate recruit, along the lines of a power forward, will do it. They will be right behind RIT and close with the Bombers. I agree I don't see SJF better than 4 or 5. NAZ will be the ??? Can they prosper after Canori??? Maybe..... Let the fur fly..... ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on June 20, 2008, 12:59:48 PM
    Sorry Razor, I meant to thank 8BALL for the RIT prediction.......
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on June 20, 2008, 01:18:40 PM
    No problem...I'm an RIT fan as well.  Gotta love the consistency and integrity Coach Mac brings to the table!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on June 20, 2008, 02:07:56 PM
    YEP RAZOR, no complaints.......I think we can actually be in the mix... it appears wide open, I know Bomber, your basically all back, and Utica wants to stay on the year end roll, MAYBE... NAZ and SJF won't go away, and of course those Ducks certainly will be tough at home..( hey Alfred, Elmira and Hartwick may decide the finish with an upset here or there) but no one runs away with this one... It all comes down to Injuries, recruits will play a big part, and of course coaching.....Should be fun..... ;)

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on June 20, 2008, 02:52:49 PM
    I think it is clear that there are several contenders for 2008-2009.  The only odd contender I have seen mentioned is Utica.  Do we really think they can win without Goodemotte?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on June 22, 2008, 07:35:33 PM
    Just to dispel any wild rumors, Pep is NOT a candidate for the men's basketball coaching position at Alfred University.

    Pep's all-time basketball coaching career record in the Hornell YMCA Biddy League is in the neighborhood of 21-72, while he had a more successful coaching stint with the Almond Lions Youth Basketball League back in 1979-81 when his mark was in the neighborhood of 18-18.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on June 24, 2008, 01:05:54 PM
    It appears that Pep has a real knack for stifling discussion on the boards. Pep seems to leave folks "postless" aka speechless.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: hoopsman on June 24, 2008, 01:33:17 PM
    Looks like AU has narrowed the search down to 6 candiadtes to interview on campus.  Rob DeGrampre from Hilbert, Todd Montana from Green Mountain and Hepler the asst from Fisher are getting interviews, working on finding out who the other 3 are.  Very surprising list so far, thought the pool was a bit stronger than it actually is.  Also heard that the guy across the street at Alfred State did not get a phone interview, source said he won over 70 games in the last four years but was not considered because of the junior college label, must not be good enough for AU.  Source said that they want to hire a head coach, my question is why interview assistants?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 24, 2008, 01:37:32 PM
    Quote from: hoopsman on June 24, 2008, 01:33:17 PM
    Looks like AU has narrowed the search down to 6 candiadtes to interview on campus.  Rob DeGrampre from Hilbert, Todd Montana from Green Mountain and Hepler the asst from Fisher are getting interviews, working on finding out who the other 3 are.  Very surprising list so far, thought the pool was a bit stronger than it actually is.  Also heard that the guy across the street at Alfred State did not get a phone interview, source said he won over 70 games in the last four years but was not considered because of the junior college label, must not be good enough for AU.  Source said that they want to hire a head coach, my question is why interview assistants?

    There's been some discussion of Hepler, but not the other two listed here. What does anyone know about them?

    And I'll be interested to find out who the other three are, any guesses?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: hoopsman on June 24, 2008, 02:03:12 PM
    Degrampre  has been at hilbert for 6 years and I think his last 4 years he is 48 - 57, but he has beat Au the last 2 or 3 times whiuch doesn't say much.  He was an assitant at RIT for a while prior to Hilbert.  Todd Montana has been at Green Mountain for 3 years and is 25 - 47 in 3 years but did go 21-5 this year.  keep in mind they are a new D.3 team and play a very weak schedule.  So the 2 head coaches they are interviewing both have losing career records, not a very strong pool from that standpoint.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: hoopsman on June 24, 2008, 02:04:53 PM
    Rumor has it that Kornaker at Fisher does not want Hepler back next year and Helper is not sure about whether he wants to continue coaching, so another strong candidate to add to AU's list.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 24, 2008, 03:22:23 PM
    Quote from: hoopsman on June 24, 2008, 02:04:53 PM
    Rumor has it that Kornaker at Fisher does not want Hepler back next year and Helper is not sure about whether he wants to continue coaching, so another strong candidate to add to AU's list.

    Any reason why he doesn't want Hepler back? Is it because he doesn't know if he wants to keep coaching?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 24, 2008, 05:36:51 PM
    Hoopsman, do you know when they're making a decision at AU?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on June 25, 2008, 07:43:52 AM
    I would think the AU job and the Stevens job should be finalized real soon. AU seems a little tougher than Stevens. The assistant at Stevens Bob Hurley has been there for about 4-5 years. These are his players (recruit wise), I would guess he will be given the shot. AND as I said other than RIT winning the E 8 I think the core at Stevens, Grey, Greco and Passalaqua will take them far.
    AU is another situation. The new coach is starting the program from scratch. They can go in any direction..They should probably hire someone who is a good recruiter first, x's and o's second... Proficiency at both preferred.

    Talk about stating the obviuos....... anyway what do I know? ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on June 25, 2008, 08:32:37 AM
    Hoopsman, your sources and rumors are pretty sketchy to say the least.  Hepler was not among the final candidates to recieve campus inerviews and your so called "rumor" that Hepler wasn't wanted back by Kornaker is completely false.  You might want to be a little bit more careful with your reporting when your making assumptions about a highly respected head coach/assistant coach in our area. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 25, 2008, 12:51:43 PM
    Quote from: Razor on June 25, 2008, 08:32:37 AM
    Hoopsman, your sources and rumors are pretty sketchy to say the least.  Hepler was not among the final candidates to recieve campus inerviews and your so called "rumor" that Hepler wasn't wanted back by Kornaker is completely false.  You might want to be a little bit more careful with your reporting when your making assumptions about a highly respected head coach/assistant coach in our area. 

    Razor, do you know who the final candidates coming to campus are? I think everybody was taking hoopsman at his word because he seemed to have a clear idea what was going on.

    Were any of his names accurate?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: hoopsman on June 25, 2008, 01:18:20 PM
    rumors are exactly that - rumors.  I didn't realize this was a 100% factual blog, if that is the case then nobody should be be writing anything here.  Montana from green mountain is on campus today.  Degrampre from Hilbert is DEFINATELy getting an interview - source is himself.  I have now heard from 3 different people that Hepler is getting one and 2 of those people are in the empire 8 basketball world.   How do you know that the rumor about hepler is "completely false"?  Did you actually ask Kornaker or Hepler about it and if you did do you really think that they would say it is true, hell no.  I don't make assumptions, I write what I hear.  people ask what, where, when and how and people answer what they hear.  See ya
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on June 25, 2008, 01:41:40 PM
    Actually yes, I do no for a FACT that Hepler is not getting an Interview and I do know for a FACT that the rumor that you heard is completely false.  Seeing as how you don't know my connection or relationship with either of the 2, don't make the assumption that both would say, in your words "hell no."  And when people ask what , where, when and how, YOU should have the courtesy to give them at least a somewhat accurate depiction of whats really going down and not something that your just conjuring up to stir the pot.  One thing you have done though is get yourself noticed...which when you get right down to it, I guess it's not really hard to figure out who you are!  And don't speak for what others post, because Pep, JoseQ. FromAFar, etc. are solid posters who post valid info. and make valid points.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 25, 2008, 02:28:41 PM
    Anyone know who else is interviewing for the AU job?

    I guess we know Montana and Degrandpre, and maybe/or not Hepler. Haven't heard who the other three are?

    Also, anyone know the timeframe for them to make a hire? Seems like they'd want to make a decision before the summer's over, so a new coach could actually be on campus before school starts, and also so the coach could figure out if they're recruiting for their current school or Alfred.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on June 25, 2008, 02:56:10 PM
    Buck, I know that DeGrandpre, Montana, the current assistant at AU--Cooper (which is quite a humorous Final 4 candidate to say the least) and 1 other candidate are in the Final 4.  From all accounts, DeGrandpre is the front-runner for the job.  There are only 4 finalists for the position, not 6 as previously thought.  How Cooper gets an interview in that final group and guys like Hepler and the Alfred State coach do not is quite puzzling to many. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 25, 2008, 03:52:03 PM
    Quote from: Razor on June 25, 2008, 02:56:10 PM
    Buck, I know that DeGrandpre, Montana, the current assistant at AU--Cooper (which is quite a humorous Final 4 candidate to say the least) and 1 other candidate are in the Final 4.  From all accounts, DeGrandpre is the front-runner for the job.  There are only 4 finalists for the position, not 6 as previously thought.  How Cooper gets an interview in that final group and guys like Hepler and the Alfred State coach do not is quite puzzling to many. 

    I heard Cooper was not included in the final group, and now am hearing the top assistants from UofR and Williams, as well as the D'Youville head coach are getting campus visits in addition to Degrandpre and Montana. So that would make five candidates, not four.

    Thoughts? Is my info bogus?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on June 25, 2008, 05:24:52 PM
    Stevens hired. Result not a surprise.

    http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2008/06/25/stevens-keeps-mens-job-in-house.html
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3hoopfan24 on June 25, 2008, 05:44:03 PM
    Looks like some interesting candidates at Alfred. I think DeGrandpre from Hilbert would be a good hire. He has down a solid job at Hilbert(a tough place to win) plus has experience in the E8 with RIT. Brian Miller from D'Youville also would be a good choice. He has D1 experience with Canisius and plus has down a decent job at DYC(a very difficult place to recruit.)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on June 26, 2008, 08:56:57 AM
    The Stevens hire makes sense. The assistant has been part of their rise, and probably had a lot to do with recruiting Grey, Greco and Passalaqua, as well as the supporting cast. I think AU needs to pick it up a bit.  They need to stabilize the program a bit, and get their guys into some sort of summer workouts etc. Time is so important right now.  Does anyone know if Bostic IS or ISN"T playing football?

    111 days to Midnight Madness 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on June 26, 2008, 11:25:53 AM
    Completely off topic - how many former E-8 players are currently playing pro ball? Whether it's overseas or in the US playing in the ABA or whatever leagues there are. Just interested to see where some people are...I think I remember seeing Cichon and Ray Bryant (utica) were all set to play on the Syracuse ABA team before it folded.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 26, 2008, 04:28:11 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on June 25, 2008, 03:52:03 PM
    Quote from: Razor on June 25, 2008, 02:56:10 PM
    Buck, I know that DeGrandpre, Montana, the current assistant at AU--Cooper (which is quite a humorous Final 4 candidate to say the least) and 1 other candidate are in the Final 4.  From all accounts, DeGrandpre is the front-runner for the job.  There are only 4 finalists for the position, not 6 as previously thought.  How Cooper gets an interview in that final group and guys like Hepler and the Alfred State coach do not is quite puzzling to many. 

    I heard Cooper was not included in the final group, and now am hearing the top assistants from UofR and Williams, as well as the D'Youville head coach are getting campus visits in addition to Degrandpre and Montana. So that would make five candidates, not four.

    Thoughts? Is my info bogus?

    Razor, did you have any more insight?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: hoopsman on June 29, 2008, 11:36:11 PM
    has anyone heard anything about keuka college joining the E8 and any new news on the Au job?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on June 30, 2008, 12:20:59 AM
    The E8 is looking for a football school.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on June 30, 2008, 07:57:00 AM
    Quote from: hoopsman on June 29, 2008, 11:36:11 PM
    has anyone heard anything about keuka college joining the E8 and any new news on the Au job?

    Pep hasn't spoken with his source since last week's interviews. Pep thought you had the inside, hoopsman.
    Pep will say he saw a van from Green Mountain College parked one day last week in the driveway of the grandmother of GMC Basketball Coach Todd Montana. Montana's mother grew up in Alfred and is currently a phys ed teacher at Alfred-Almond Central School. Montana's father, of course, is Union College Men's Basketball Coach Bob Montana.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: hoopsman on June 30, 2008, 08:24:43 AM
    did not realize montana has ties to Alfred nor that his father coached at union.  i thought i had the inside but as you saw last week my source was handing me sketchy info so who knows what is going on.  Hopefully Au hires someone decent soon, it was hard to watch them play when they came into town to play league games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: hoopsman on July 02, 2008, 12:03:22 AM
    word has it that AU will be or already has hired a head coach.  Originally people were saying that AU was looking to hire someone with head coaching experience but it looks like they went the other way and are looking at an assistant.  Time will tell.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on July 02, 2008, 07:37:47 AM
    Quote from: hoopsman on July 02, 2008, 12:03:22 AM
    word has it that AU will be or already has hired a head coach.  Originally people were saying that AU was looking to hire someone with head coaching experience but it looks like they went the other way and are looking at an assistant.  Time will tell.

    Word on the street is that the guy who was at Williams last season has been offered the job.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: hoopsman on July 02, 2008, 07:50:07 AM
    That is what I heard too, anybody know anything about him?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on July 02, 2008, 09:11:41 AM
    Hey gang, I've been out of the Loop a few days..... Question, did Wiliams hire yet?? If so who, if not who's in the hunt??? I understand from the post the assistant at Williams is getting or looks like he is getting the AU job???
    I also understand RIT's recruits are pretty good. We played the better teams tough last year, always there, but couldn't get consistancy. We fell asleep too many times. I actually think we'll be pretty much the same, if these recruits can fill the voids to some extent. However, this year will be tough again. Ithaca, Naz, Stevens, Utica and SJF all have a shot.... My guess is it will go down to the last league games to decide the playoff teams... How's that for a July prediction....?
    As we get closer and I read the schools previews, and who is exactly in place I'll come up with a solid ::) prediction.......  ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on July 02, 2008, 09:38:34 AM
    Word is AU has a new men's basketball coach but members of the committee are mum until the official announcement is made.

    Pep is thinking maybe the AU AD is waiting for the decision to be confirmed here by D3Hoops posters before releasing the information to the local press.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on July 02, 2008, 10:08:56 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on July 02, 2008, 09:38:34 AM
    Word is AU has a new men's basketball coach but members of the committee are mum until the official announcement is made.

    Pep is thinking maybe the AU AD is waiting for the decision to be confirmed here by D3Hoops posters before releasing the information to the local press.



    Or maybe he's just waiting for the "local press" to finish covering the big 4th of July swap meet.  ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on July 02, 2008, 10:18:13 AM
    Quote from: hoopsman on July 02, 2008, 07:50:07 AM
    That is what I heard too, anybody know anything about him?

    His bio is posted on the Williams staff page — the link is williams.prestosports.com/sports/mbkb/coaches/index

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on July 02, 2008, 10:18:46 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on July 02, 2008, 09:38:34 AM
    Word is AU has a new men's basketball coach but members of the committee are mum until the official announcement is made.

    Pep is thinking maybe the AU AD is waiting for the decision to be confirmed here by D3Hoops posters before releasing the information to the local press.



    Any idea when they're going to confirm the hire?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on July 02, 2008, 11:27:29 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on July 02, 2008, 10:18:46 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on July 02, 2008, 09:38:34 AM
    Word is AU has a new men's basketball coach but members of the committee are mum until the official announcement is made.

    Pep is thinking maybe the AU AD is waiting for the decision to be confirmed here by D3Hoops posters before releasing the information to the local press.



    Any idea when they're going to confirm the hire?

    Yup...when they are good and ready. Something about a contract being signed. Guaranteed it will be before Labor Day.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on July 02, 2008, 02:13:57 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on July 02, 2008, 11:27:29 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on July 02, 2008, 10:18:46 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on July 02, 2008, 09:38:34 AM
    Word is AU has a new men's basketball coach but members of the committee are mum until the official announcement is made.

    Pep is thinking maybe the AU AD is waiting for the decision to be confirmed here by D3Hoops posters before releasing the information to the local press.



    Any idea when they're going to confirm the hire?

    Yup...when they are good and ready. Something about a contract being signed. Guaranteed it will be before Labor Day.


    That's a pretty risky guarantee, considering how long this process is taking. Besides, they wouldn't want the new coach to have too much time to try and scrape up any extra recruits he might be able to muster up. Probably wouldn't matter much anyway, not sure what AU's admittance policy is, but guessing the coach wouldn't be able to bring in anyone new for next year outside of who's already been recruited. Based on the previous efforts, guessing the cupboard's gonna be pretty bare, especially with the best player from last year's team transferring out.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on July 04, 2008, 12:08:55 AM
    Pep personally met the new AU men's basketball coach today. His appointment will be officially announced next week.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on July 05, 2008, 08:41:14 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on July 04, 2008, 12:08:55 AM
    Pep personally met the new AU men's basketball coach today. His appointment will be officially announced next week.


    So Pep, what was your take on Dale Wellman? Think he's the guy to turn the program around?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on July 05, 2008, 11:55:17 PM
    Pep believes that the new coach will do well, man. Obviously, there ain't much in the cupboard. So it probably won't happen overnight. But from first impressions, he's personable, he's enthusiastic, he's affable, he's optimistic and heck, he didn't even kick Pep out of his office after 10 minutes of Pep's "blah, blah, blah."

    Pep can only believe that attendance at McLane will increase if only for long-time fans coming back to see the new kid on the block. Pep believes the new coach is one who will be more visible on campus, which can only help generate more support from the student body that has hungered for good basketball.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on July 06, 2008, 08:21:16 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on July 05, 2008, 11:55:17 PM
    Pep believes that the new coach will do well, man.



    Hey, I see what you did there.  Nice.  You, sir, are a cunning linguist.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on July 06, 2008, 08:58:33 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on July 06, 2008, 08:21:16 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on July 05, 2008, 11:55:17 PM
    Pep believes that the new coach will do well, man.



    Hey, I see what you did there.  Nice.  You, sir, are a cunning linguist.

    Pep always appreciates posters who read between the lines, or, as in this case, between the commas. But your choice of words, my dear friend, is equally cunning and something that only Mrs. Pep needs to know about, if you know what I mean.

    +K
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on July 08, 2008, 11:55:00 AM
    Been out of the loop again for awhile.  Did Williams hire a new coach yet? If so who, if not anyone know who is being considered? I understand the E8 looking for another school (for football).Is that true? If so who?, would they be involved in Hoops this year? When will the E8 Hoops schedule come out??? ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on July 08, 2008, 05:22:43 PM
    Williams just announced its hiring today.

    http://www.d3hoops.com
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on July 09, 2008, 08:58:16 AM
    Thanks Pat, saw it earlier. 9 Williams job).Hey anyone out there a Hartwick guy... Pretty quite on that front.... anything going on there. Anyone leave, Chris Carson coming back? Recruits etc.  I can't get anything on RIT, next years E8 Champs  ;D, I get more on Stevens then them, helps being in the City quite a bit and a few contacts at Stevens.... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on July 14, 2008, 02:19:19 PM
    Pep is back from a side trip to Milan, IN after a day at Kings Island near Cincy. Fans of high school basketball in general, Indiana high school basketball in particular, and the David and Goliath story depicted in "Hoosiers," must visit Milan, IN. Be sure, however, to visit when Roselyn McKittrick is in town...she'll give you a million dollar tour. Absolutely priceless. Bring your credit card. There's plenty of memorabilia, books, etc. to bring home.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Knightstalker on July 15, 2008, 10:50:04 AM
    Stevens has announced their new  head coach  (http://www.nj.com/sports/jjournal/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1216103105158280.xml&coll=3&thispage=1).  No he is not related to the St Anthonys coach, but he did play at RPI.

    Edited to link to a more detailed article.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on July 15, 2008, 01:34:29 PM
    Well, AU still hasn't announced its new hoops coach, with the position still listed as:

    Men's Basketball : Coach
    Position Vacant — To Be Announced

    However, the Saxons did make another exciting coaching hire announcement. Check it out here:

    http://www.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?ID=4853


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on July 15, 2008, 02:33:24 PM
    Actually the Saxons announced their new men's coach today:

    http://www.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?&ID=4854
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on July 15, 2008, 03:41:55 PM
    Quote from: gordonmann on July 15, 2008, 02:33:24 PM
    Actually the Saxons announced their new men's coach today:

    http://www.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?&ID=4854

    The word is now official...
    Pep has met the new coach and was also impressed with his enthusiasm. Pep can only believe the enthusiasm will be contagious and that the men's basketball program will generate more interest among the student body.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on July 15, 2008, 04:27:39 PM
    QuotePep has met the new coach and was also impressed with his enthusiasm.

    Oddly enough, I think I also met him several years ago.  Channeling Dennis Green, if he is who I think he is, I met Wellman when he was an assistant under Dave Kunka at Kenyon.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on July 15, 2008, 07:13:21 PM
    Quote from: gordonmann on July 15, 2008, 02:33:24 PM
    Actually the Saxons announced their new men's coach today:

    http://www.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?&ID=4854

    Must have been just after I last checked the college's news releases.

    And, as of 7:12 p.m. the coaches section of the basketball page still said it was vacant.

    It will be interesting to see how Wellman does, I know he part of the group seeking the Utica and Elmira jobs, and also interesting he wasn't headed to Bucknell with Paulsen.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on July 16, 2008, 05:00:34 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on July 15, 2008, 07:13:21 PM
    Quote from: gordonmann on July 15, 2008, 02:33:24 PM
    Actually the Saxons announced their new men's coach today:

    http://www.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?&ID=4854

    Must have been just after I last checked the college's news releases.

    And, as of 7:12 p.m. the coaches section of the basketball page still said it was vacant.

    It will be interesting to see how Wellman does, I know he part of the group seeking the Utica and Elmira jobs, and also interesting he wasn't headed to Bucknell with Paulsen.

    If he was among the candidates at Utica and Elmira as well as Alfred, Pep would guess that he had some time ago decided he wanted to get a shot at running his own program....or that he was partial to purple and gold.

    Paulsen has quite a group of assistants at Bucknell, including an IC grad and a UR grad...and, oh, lest I get smited by the guru, also a Catholic U. grad!

    http://bucknellbison.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/061008aab.html

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on July 16, 2008, 03:59:50 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on July 16, 2008, 05:00:34 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on July 15, 2008, 07:13:21 PM
    Quote from: gordonmann on July 15, 2008, 02:33:24 PM
    Actually the Saxons announced their new men's coach today:

    http://www.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?&ID=4854

    Must have been just after I last checked the college's news releases.

    And, as of 7:12 p.m. the coaches section of the basketball page still said it was vacant.

    It will be interesting to see how Wellman does, I know he part of the group seeking the Utica and Elmira jobs, and also interesting he wasn't headed to Bucknell with Paulsen.

    If he was among the candidates at Utica and Elmira as well as Alfred, Pep would guess that he had some time ago decided he wanted to get a shot at running his own program....or that he was partial to purple and gold.

    Paulsen has quite a group of assistants at Bucknell, including an IC grad and a UR grad...and, oh, lest I get smited by the guru, also a Catholic U. grad!

    http://bucknellbison.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/061008aab.html



    Ah, the basketball operations guy is the former Paulsen assistant that gets to go with his old boss to D-1. I was kind of surprised Paulsen wouldn't take anyone from his Williams staff with him, but Kelly was at Williams two years ago. ast year he was an assistant at Clarkson. Interestingly, Clarkson is where new women's coach Jay Murphy spent the 12 years prior to coming to Alfred as its men's coach.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on July 23, 2008, 05:46:39 PM
    While Pep is excited about the coming football season, Pep also got acquainted with a good number of AU's women's volleyball players during Sunday afternoon play during spring semester and is hopeful the Lady Saxons can be more competitive in 2008.

    And with Coach Dale Wellman on the recruiting trail, Pep is equally hopeful that the new mentor can get off to an encouraging start with the Saxons.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Shooting Star on August 15, 2008, 08:46:48 PM
    How does Alfred project with their new coach and Hartwick for next season?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on August 18, 2008, 06:55:32 PM
    Pep is encouraged if only for some new life in the program; would say it's gonna take a few years for Wellman to make his mark. Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see how his returning players respond to his leadership style (whatever that might be).

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 17, 2008, 11:49:47 AM
    test..........
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 18, 2008, 09:03:52 AM
    OK gang, 26 days to mid-night madness, let's get the juices flowing.  remember as I always say "what do I know ???..  I apologize up front if I forget someone, or offend an alumn, I am too old to be yelled at... Here's the way the saeson looks FROMAFAR.

    My order of finish...

    1...ITHACA....  Burton repeats as POY.. needs to get others involved and help Bostic become a factor early in the season. Leahy streaky and needs to bulk up. Brown should be one year smarter in the post.

    2... UTICA... Only lose Munch, not a big deal. Too slow at the point may have cost them over the long run. I think Connoly will be a huge asset, and get Herring to be less COCOESQUE, and get McClendon and Maxwell more involved.

    3. STEVENS TECH... My second favorite team. ( work in the city and have Stevens Alumn friends who follow team.) They will miss Williams inside play, but the loss of Farid ( did I spell that right ???) may not be a problem. They seemed to be too methodical at times last year, New Coach Hurley may let them go. it appears Grey and Greco are at their best when improvising. ( Those two destroyed Fisher, Ithaca ..without Burton.. at home, and Nazareth home and away.) GRECO MAY BE SMARTEST PLAYER IN LEAGUE, Passalaqua can shoot from anywhere...Those 3 need to stay out of foul trouble and remain on the court for 30+ minutes each. Baker is physical and should replace Farids rebounds,,, Be careful of this team, they may sneak up on everyone.

    4. Nazareth...  it all comes down to Daley. he needs to give some of the starters rest.. late game collapses due to TOO MANY MINUTES. C. Mc ADAM giveth and taketh.. can be one of the best when he cuts down on turn overs. Look for Miranda and Dehimer to step up, life after Canori should be interesting.

    5. RIT... AH MY FAVORITE TEAM... WE PLAYED EVERYONE TOUGH LAST YEAR AND CAME CLOSE TO THE TOP TEAMS. THIS MAY HAVE BUILT OUR CHARACTER. LOOK FOR CARSON TO TAKE ANOTHER STEP FORWARD..WILL PUSH FOR POY... MAYBE.. HOPEFULLY...  ;D, NATE KORNICHAK, AND RICK WHITWOOD ARE KEYS, THEY NEED TO GET TO THE NEXT LEVEL IN THEIR GAMES, WE COULD MAKE PLAYOFFS......

    6. FISHER... I know I will take heat on picking them 5, rememebr RIT is with my heart. Fisher could make playoffs if Kornaker has some immediate help from recruits, and knowing him he does...Ozelle Franklin may break out this year, and Newman and Coyne are veterans, however the loss of Beigel, McKeever, and Beardan is an issue...

    7. ALFRED... New coach.. Wellman, and return of veterans.. Embury, Patt, Smthgall, and Walsh, give him a start at this school.. could surprise one of top 3 along the way.

    8. ELMIRA.. Coach Torgelsk ( did I spell that ??? correct).. will ahve a tough start here, I have no idea how he goes, not much there.

    9. HARTWICK.. COCO, COCO, COCO.... did Culpo straighten out the house?? ???  Who do they have coming in.... They need help....

    1st TEAM ALL CONFERENCE        2ND TEAM

    CARSON...    RIT                          K. MCADAM      NAZ
    BURTON...     ITHACA                   GRECO            STEVENS
    C. MCADAM...NAZ                        BOSTIC            ITHACA
    GREY...          STEVENS                COCO              HARTWICK
    HERRING....   UTICA                     PASSALAQUA  STEVENS

    PLAYERS TO WATCH...

    McClendon..... Utica
    Newman.........Fisher
    Leahy....         Ithaca


    AGAIN, MY APOLOGIES TO THOSE PLAYERS I MISSED, THOSE ALUMNI I OFFENDED...... BUT MEANT TO GET THE BANTER GOING........... ;)











           


       


     


       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on September 19, 2008, 07:59:48 AM
    While I am not an E8 guy (though I have followed some of the players and am somewhat acquainted with a few coaches),  I admire your committment and didn't want your post to go un-noticed.    I am soo ready for the season to start.  Football is nice but merely a diversion until hoop starts.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 19, 2008, 09:03:41 AM
    Thanks Ethelred, you seem ready to me.......  Feel free to join the E8 gang... There are a lot of knowledgeable guys on this site, and some fun stuff going back and forth. Like you, football is not my forte, although some of these guys will say either is basketball.  It's easier to dissect the games and players performances in hoops, and the games come quickly, not too much time between games to harp on issues, and issues change rapidly.

    BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on September 19, 2008, 09:15:22 AM
    I'm somewhat forced to follow E8 and Liberty League as there is not a great deal of chatter on the UAA board.  But like I said, a lot of the E8 kids are ones I either saw in HS or read about so that makes it a little easier.  And of course with the Chase, it's always good to keep tabs on the competition! 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on September 30, 2008, 02:05:49 PM
    Enjoyed the synopsis of this upcoming season--Thanks for your viewpoint--I am SUNYAC fan but always enjoy info on the E8--I am partial to RIT too--Coach McVean is a great guy-Thanks
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on October 01, 2008, 01:50:13 PM
    Here's what I posted back in March for 2008-09 predictions.

    Quote from: gobombers15 on March 09, 2008, 10:25:41 PM
    Proving it's never too early to look forward, here's my guess at how they finish in 2008-09.

    1) Ithaca:  The Big Three return and the Bombers don't lose a ton to graduation. Bostic and Burton will both be E8 POY candidates. The Bombers will lose starting center Louis Kail but Tom Brown will fill in capably in the pivot. Ithaca also loses Ruffrage and Scanlon, who seemed to regress in his senior year. Freshman Chris Cruz came on at the end of the season and played well in two games against Fisher. He'll be the sixth man. I think Mullins will spell Burton a bit more next year as freshman Matt Ruger will be ready to take on more of the ballhandling duties.

    2) Utica: Nice mix of a talented veteran (Herring), quality bigs (McClendon, Goodman), and a lot of good, young players. One of the top teams in the league at the end of the season. They will be good next season.

    3) Nazareth: The McAdam brothers return. That is enough to give them a chance each night. The graduation of Joe Canori leaves a void of about 18-20 points per night. Rayvon Higdon will likely step in to fill some of that void, but I think they'll miss Canori's scoring ability.

    4) Fisher: Call me crazy, but I think they have enough to do well next year. This team will definitely be guard-oriented but that wins a lot in college basketball. Not a bad nucleus in Newman, Baltz and Franklin. I like Witte and Wopperer (who came on at the end of the season and looks like a more-than-serviceable big), too. We know Kornaker will recruit and will bring in a couple of freshman who can contribute immediately. Coyne and Cornett will contribute, as well. Kornaker has become a better coach over the last few years and I think he gets them to the E8 Tourney.

    5) Stevens: The loss of Farid really hurts. Williams could have been one of the top bigs if he had more of an edge to him and/or he was used correctly, but too late for that. Like Fisher, will have to hope someone steps up down low on the blocks. Also like Fisher, will very much be a guard-oriented team with the return of Gray, Passalacqua and Greco. Higgins and Baker move into starting roles. However, team will be lacking depth. Stevens needs to become a better road team, too. However, they will be in contention for the E8 Tourney until the end because of how adept they are on their home floor.

    6) RIT: I thorougly believe if McVean just cut his rotation down to 8 players, RIT would be two games better each conference season. Or, just maybe, they can figure out how to avoid being swept by Hartwick and just be two games better that way. Gethers and Colin Roy are gone. Returning are Mark Carson, Whitwood, Korinchak, and E8 Co-Rookie of the Year Shane Foster. RIT can beat anyone on a given night but they can lose to almost anyone, too. Until consistency appears, I'm going to slot them here each year.

    7) Elmira: Young team that made significant strides this season. Twice put a scare into a good Stevens team and played well at Ithaca late in the season. Team's ability to play hard defense will allow them to stay close in a bunch of games. I think this team can win 5 or 6 games in the conference next season.

    8 ) Hartwick: Unfortunately, Coco just never had any help during his career, an excellent player languishing on terrible team. He should have pulled a Pierre Garcon and transferred to a top program. He could've been a great 3rd option on a very good team. If Carson brothers return, they could possibly overtake Elmira. I'm not betting on it, though.

    9) Alfred: If any D3 coach should ever be fired, Jay Murphy should. A bunch of players returning, but not all that much talent in that group. I think they have the basement on lockdown until Coco graduates from Hartwick.

    FromAfar, don't agree with your assessment of Bostic as a 2nd Team player. I know you're an RIT guy, thus have a soft spot in your heart for Carson, but I don't see Bostic (a guy who has made 1st Team the last two years) giving up his spot on that team. Additionally, Bostic is spending this fall dedicating himself to basketball. Unlike the past two years, he is not playing football this year. He won't have to spend time getting himself into basketball shape and rounding into form. I expect huge things from him this year.

    Other than that, thanks for the synopsis. Makes for a good read.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 01, 2008, 02:26:00 PM
    Once again Gobombers makes sense. I have to agree, Carson is with the heart and Bostic has shown he could be first team...His only problem may be Ithaca is picked not only by you and me, but will be by the coaches, so he has to keep them there OR he will be blamed, and lose that 1st team.. IF RIT improves off last year, Carson will be given the credit and it could get him there. Other than your Fisher pick 4th, we basically are on the same page...

    HEY 14 days to midnight madness.......  This could be another year where the conference winner has at least 4 losses.....

    Good to hear from you Bomber, and you too Scooterman....   should be fun....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on October 02, 2008, 03:28:25 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on September 18, 2008, 09:03:52 AM

    7. ALFRED... New coach.. Wellman, and return of veterans.. Embury, Patt, Smthgall, and Walsh, give him a start at this school.. could surprise one of top 3 along the way.


    FYI: Ellis Walsh, who proly led the Saxons in scoring last year as a frosh, has, sadly, but understandably, transferred to Nazareth.....not to play basketball, mind you, but to play VOLLEYBALL, his first love. Pep had opportunity to get acquainted with Walsh during study time at the library as well as on the volleyball court. Pep taught him a few things on both accounts.  ;) The kid will do well! All the best to Ellis!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 03, 2008, 11:36:04 AM
    PEP, good to hear from you, actually now that you mention that, I believe you told us that back away.... That hurts, he was preety good..... I too wish him luck, as long as he is doing what he likes and gets the EDU... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 05, 2008, 08:46:33 PM
    Any news out there from the Fisher training camp? They have to replace some key big men this year. Any word on the recruiting class that Kornaker brought in would be appreciated.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on October 07, 2008, 02:08:15 PM
    Not much news about the actual camp but didnt hear of any big name fresh coming in or any that might contribute right away.  They did lose key big men and they will be missed im sure as they didnt really fill the void.  my bet is that Fisher is going to have to go with a really small guard oriented line up with newman, baltz, franklin and a swingman at the 4 (will cornell or branden Witte) wopperer at the 5.  I see this team having a hard time fitting into the conference tournament this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on October 07, 2008, 08:57:49 PM
    Welcome back everyone.  Bout a week to go until practice kicks off, so I figured I'd give my early early 2 cents on how I think the conference will shake out.  Now, keep in mind that we don't know much about what the freshmen classes will hold, so a lot of this is based on last season.  Lets get goin:


    1)  Ithaca
      Burton is back, Bostic is back, Leahy is back.  You could argue that this is going to be the most explosive trio in the conference this year.  This team was SOOOOOO close (conference tournament in their building) to finally getting over the hurdle, only to fall short once again.  This time, I think the Bomber fans finally get their dream of NCAA glory.  Personally, it'd be neat to see 5 different E8 members in the tourney in the past 3 seasons (Utica, SJF, Stevens, Naz, and then Ithaca this year).  Only thing stopping this team is themselves, or another injury.


    2)  Utica
      With Doug back, they're always a threat.  I actually like the mix of talent that they have assembled this year, and this team finished the season probably as hot as any team in the conference.  Unfortunately, they seem to have droughts in the season where they don't want to play.  If they can avoid that, they'll be right back in the thick of the title hunt.

    3)  RIT
       I'm going on a limb, and maybe I'll be proven very wrong, but I like this team this year.  Last year they beat Utica, Ithaca, St. John Fisher, and Stevens.  Losing to last year's NCAA tournament team (Naz) THREE times last year really hurt obviously, but I do think there is a lot to like.  Foster is back (Co-Rookie of the Year), Carson is back (the inevitable 6th 1st teamer..aka 2nd team, but barely), and a host of other tough, gritty players.  I think this is the year they break into the e8 tournament at the expense of some other teams.

    4)  [tie] Nazareth and St. John Fisher
       I know, I know, a tie is like kissing your sister, but I think these teams will finish the season dead even.  I love the guard play of both teams, but hate the inside games, or lack there of.  Canori's loss is really going to hurt Naz, as is their inability to carry their athleticism from offense to defense, and Fisher lost a ton inside.  One of these teams will back into the tournament thanks to a furious rally at the end.


    6)  Stevens
      Recipe for disaster:  New Coach + Bad Road Team - Best playmaker - All inside presence - Novelty(new team in conference last year) = uh oh.


    I know Gray and Passalacqua are back, but surprisingly I think this teams problem may be team scoring.  If you look at it, they had no one average THREE assists a game last year except Farid.  Say what you will, but Farid and Williams both commanded the attention of defenses, which opened things up for Gray's slashing and Passalacqua's shooting.  Gray is still going to get his numbers because he's that talented, but what about the other guys?  The point guard spot is key.  If Greco can elevate his game to within the realm of "Burton/McAdam" level, then this team will make a little noise and be in the hunt for a tournament berth.  On the other hand, if he loses his job to Baker like he did at the end of last season, then I could see a winning season for the ducks, but not a tournament one (similar to Utica last year).


    7)  Elmira
    They play tough and hard.  Not expecting too much from them, but they'll still be dangerous once or twice this year against a contender. 

    8 )  Hartwick
    Coco and Co.  Such a shame that they never got players around him, but hey, it happens.  Let's hope he puts on a great performance on Senior Night and steals a W. He deserves that much.

    9)  Alfred
    They may be going up, but they aren't quite there yet.  Many questions and fewer answers, although this season could be one of growth not anything else.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 08, 2008, 09:06:51 AM
    Hey, we're getting everyone back, this is great, good to hear from you Cyclone, and a great read. Looking for some of the others to throw their 2 cents in.

    I totally agree with your RIT synopsis, I can't write that stuff because I hate to put the Jinks on my guys, BUT your right. As I said in my post, RIT was right there with the best last year, and I look for definite improvement from them, and hopefully an E-8  tourney appearance.  I have to disagree with you on your Stevens take. Don't let the assists stats fool you. No one on this team got the ball into the post other than Greco.The offense was centered around Farid and Williams, and slowed down. I happened to see about a dozen games of Stevens last year and have a pretty good feel. Baker did start over Greco in the Nazareth E 8 playoff game, WHAT A MISTAKE. No one really knows what Loeffler was thinking about. A change at that point in the season, with a 20+ win taem and 3 loses made no sense and it cost them. Baker is not a point a guard and take a look at the stats. I believe Baker was 1-7 and assists maybe "0". He is not a point guard. No handle, and slow making decisions.  That game cost Stevens a possible NCAA BERTH. Greco actually pulled Stevens back from the Dead at NAZ game one, and took over the O.T. You probably saw the first  ITHACA game, albeit Burton got hurt. With about 8 minutes left and game tied, Greco hit a 3, had 3 assists through the 1-3-1 Zone ( all bullets to the post behind defenders) steal after an Ithaca timeout for a layup. He guarded Burton at Ithaca and actually did a good job, until he got into foul trouble. Greco also put a dagger in Fisher's heart the first time they played. The kid just has a great head for the game and can score if given the chance. Not playing him 30 minutes a game will cost them dearly.   Baker should be playing the 3 or 4. Great rebounder, decent defender, not a scorer or passer. Watch, Greco will bring Grey and Passalaqua to the next level.

    I have to say, Fisher is the question mark, tough to pick them as low as you and I do, YET it appears that's where they belong. BUT Kornaker can be the difference.  But what do I know ;)
    7 DAYS TO MIDNIGHT MADNESS       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on October 08, 2008, 10:30:57 AM
    My pics:

    1) Ithaca - Finally there year as I have been saying for the past 3 years burton and company are going to have to wait until there seniors to take the chip.

    2) Nazareth - McAdam brothers and a good experienced cast could get the #1, i think they will need more from dehimer and will have bozelli back who was hurt last year.

    3)  Utica - Always plays strong, have been young, should be able to win some big ones but also will lose some away from their home court.

    4)  Fisher - Good guards, a long with a good system which should display some consistency and the team although wont be there from the start, will get where they need to be to hopefully squeeze in the tourny. 

    5)  RIT - Always solid but never great

    6) Stevens - Lost a lot but good program lately

    7-9) I expect the usual from the remaining 3.


    The only two teams capable of doing any damage in the tournament are Ithaca and Naz. All other teams dont have the size or talent.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on October 08, 2008, 11:08:53 AM
    Fromafar..


    You're right about Greco's head for the game.  The problem I see is his style of play, not that he's not a good player.  While Greco was the only person getting the ball in to Williams, Williams is gone.  This year's Stevens team has NO inside game (so being able to feed the post really doesn't help).  What this year's team needs is someone who can drive, get into the paint, and make plays to get the ball to Gray and  Passalacqua.


    Greco's game (I've seen him for the past 3 seasons [he played in my nephew's high school conference in Nassau] and his 2 college seasons), he is not the type of point guard that breaks down a defense and looks for kick outs.  When Greco attacks the basket, he is looking to score.

    If you look back at the 06-07 Sweet 16 team, part of what made Greco such an asset to that team was that Floyd Morris, their senior PG, was a get in the paint and kick guy who didn't score, while Greco was a finisher.  He is really a score first point guard, which was perfect because it was the exact opposite of Morris.  It was sort of like the 1-2 punch you see now in football with teams having 2 different style running backs. 

    In that respect, I don't think Greco's a bad PG at all (I'd rank him 3rd behind Burton, McAdam)...I just think his style with this particular Stevens team creates an odd mix since this will be the first year he's looked at as being "the playmaker/distrubter" (Morris in '07, Farid in '08).



    I do have to disagree about the benching of Greco losing the NCAA bid tho.  Losing to Baruch, Fisher, and RIT (no offense)...all teams they should have beaten easily...probably did them in. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 08, 2008, 12:36:11 PM
    Cyclone.. points well taken...... makes sense... I agree Greco is a scoring point guard, and maybe since there is no points coming from the post that's what they need. I agree, he's right behind those two,McAdam and Burton.. I can see this team pushing it this year however which allows Grey, and Greco to be creative, and IF they kick out to Passalaqua, more dangerous. Baker is no point guard, as a matter of fact not a guard. He is tremedous off the boards, and at times plays good D, but scary when ball is in his hands. I was told by my Stevens Alumn, Greco broke some 3 pt. and assist records in High School, and a had a few 30+ games.....albeit High School, that's what Stevens needs.... Enough about Stevens......Go RIT......   I think we are going to know early about this team... With the drop in Bigs around the League ( not knowing about Freshman) Carson should have an opportunity to really take charge.....Again, I hate talking about them, superstitious....

    BUT what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on October 08, 2008, 12:50:49 PM
    RIT is really going to be tough.

    I saw both Stevens games and the games in the Chase.  They should have the best inside game in conference (along with Ithaca), but as we all know, pretty much every level of basketball is dominated by guard play.  That's what separated the e8 tourney teams last year.  I think if RIT can get top 4 team guard play(behind Ithaca, Naz, Stevens..fighting with Fisher and Utica's guard groups), they're a shoo'in for the e8 tourney.




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 09, 2008, 10:39:51 PM
    It is hard to believe that Fisher looks to be struggling to get into the tourny this year, but that is what I see as well. They have had so much success over the past few years, but unless they get some stud freshman big men, it just seems too tall of an order for them.

    However, I have seen crazy things before. Kornaker went 13-13 in his first year as the head coach, and the next season they won 20+ games. Hopefully he hit the recruiting trail real hard this offseason.

    I have to believe that IC will win the league, with almost everyone back (not to mention that they were pretty good last year), but after that I think there is a lot of questions. Should be fun.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Shooting Star on October 13, 2008, 07:48:57 PM
    Empire 8 has some new coaches and some well established ones.  Who are the best coaches in the league and why
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 14, 2008, 02:03:31 PM
    Welcome to the party Shooting Star, I'll call you star from now on, shorter. I hate to critique coaches careers overall. They forgot more about the game than I'll ever know. I may, every now and then, question a move, but like I always say, what do I know? That being said, here's my take... and take it for what it's worth...... not much..... In no Particular order.

    RIT.... ;D   Coach McVean seems to always be in the mix. Good recruiter, sometimes good x's and o's.... this should be an interesting year. Not really the most talented bunch, except for Carson, but may have enough to make playoffs. If they do, I give him the credit.

    Ithaca... Coach Mullins has the horses, if they don't achieve I blame him.. No excuses... He seems to underachieve a bit.. This should be interesting for him as well.

    Fisher...Coach Kornicker has nothing to prove. He does it consistantly and I believe last year may have been one of his better coaching years. I didn't think the talent was deep or exceptional, and he came within a wisker of another NCAA bid... Excellent coach.

    Nazareth... Coach Daily is hard to figure. He has talent, and usually does to some extent. He tends to be very patient when players are going bad, and that might be a good trait. Some coacheds love to pull players after mistakes, and that NEVER works... He lost a scorer, and some proven height. This will show his worth this year. They should be right there. If not I will look to him.

    Utica... Coach Connelly comes in from Elmira. I thought he did a great job last year with very little on the court. This year he inherits a team on the upswing and should actually be better, as their point gurad play lastt year probably cost them. If he can control Herring ( make him a team player) , they should challenge for the top spot.

    Hartwick... Coach Culpo is in tough spot. Coco can play, but can he be a teammate.. I don't know.. he hasn't had any support and who knows whats coming in... He hasn't recruited well lately either.  hard to tell, but he should geta strong assistant with some ties to strong High School programs.

    Stevens... Coach Hurley NEW HEAD COACH.... the Stevens program may have made the quickest move up the ladder than most D3 schools over the last 3-4 years. Hurley has been there and is probably a good reason why. Recruits like, Grey, Greco, Higgans and Passalaqua, probably all have his signature on them... along with Hayne, who left 2 years ago. Loeffler really only shows Baker as his recruit, not counting what comes in this year....we'll see. Two huge assets for Hurley are he knows the players, and he was a point guard.  That should play huge on this team, as Loeffler sort of slowed things down and focused scoring on front line.  This is a pivotal year for stevens and if coached correctly they can be right there. We shoudl know early as Stevemns opens up league two away games, Naz and Fisher.

    Alfred... coach Wellman...NEW ... comes from Williams so has backround. Not much talent yet so we need a few years to tell. Needs to show some energy from playesr to help recruit.


    Elmira..... coach Torgalski NEW... from NYU...Great league, and good program... again needs to show some energy from players... needs a few years.....


    I think that's everyone,  Coaches I aplogize if I put any of you on the spot...makes for good read and spurs some good conversation.... That's what it's all about... What do I know ;).



     

     











         
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: slickyquick on October 14, 2008, 06:00:01 PM
    As far as coaches go there are a lot of different variables that go into it. Are you looking at recruiting, X's and O's, keeping a team together, or a combination of all of them? These are basically from things I know, I could be way off base. But in the famous words of Charles Barkley, "I may be wrong, but I doubt it."

    Bob McVean - Highly respected throughout the state as far as other coaches go. Usually has talent, the teams underachieve. Haven't seem a really well put together team since the likes of Craig Jones was there.

    Rob Kornacker - Fisher is usually one of the most hated schools by other coaches throughout New York because it seems Fisher always brings in a boatload of recruits. He is a great recruiter and has had a lot of success. Should be interesting to see how the team does since enrollment is up and he doesn't get "help" from the financial aid office.

    Jim Mullins - A great school with great academics. The school sells itself. Usually has the horses, things never seem to turn out the way he wants. Should be interesting this year with all the studs back with Burton, Bostic, Leahy, and everyone else.

    Mike Daley - Had a lot of success during the Greg Dunne years. Has struggled recently with a enormous amount of talent. Corey McAdam does not belong at this level, he might carry the team on his back this year. I believe chemistry within the team has caused a lot of problems.

    Paul Culpo - Got lucky with one recruit, Coco, and hasn't done much to surround him with better players. Winning percentage can't be good (I'm not looking it up). Great guy though.

    Chris Connelly - Was a great fit at Elmira, just couldn't keep guys there or win just like any other coaches since the Kevin Moore era. Really good guy, who works at it. Will be recruiting a totally different type of player at Utica, should be interesting to see how he will do.

    Dale Wellman - Another guy with a great resume. Learned a lot under the tutelage of Bob Montana and Dave Paulsen. Should be a good fit at Alfred. Will have to be creative in recruiting because Alfred is in the middle of nowhere. He seemed to be a finalist for every job available in the Northeast and East region.

    Randy Torgalski - Another resume guy while working under Tom Murphy and Joe Nesci. Could potentially be a great fit at Elmira. Not as familiar with him as I am the others.

    Bill Hurley - Very familiar with the program and the players. Had great success under Loeffler, should be interesting to see how he puts his stamp on the program.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on October 15, 2008, 03:57:07 PM
    Quote from: slickyquick on October 14, 2008, 06:00:01 PM

    Randy Torgalski - Another resume guy while working under Tom Murphy and Joe Nesci. Could potentially be a great fit at Elmira. Not as familiar with him as I am the others.



    Torgalski also played at U of R under Mike Neer, who has had a little bit of success at the D3 level.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on October 15, 2008, 07:22:59 PM
    Can we learn how to spell the names of each coach? Kornicker? Kornacker? It is KORNAKER! And at Naz it's DALEY (you got it right slicky)...

    McVean - great coach! Doesn't bring in many studs, but great with X's & O's like slicky said, and gets the most out of his players.

    Kornaker - great recruiter, energetic coach. this season will show how good of a coach he is after 2 years of significant losses to graduation.

    Daley - made it to NCAAs last year with lots of talent while slipping by Fisher in E-8 finals. people say loss of canori might hurt them, but i think they'll do better without him. (someone mentioned Bozelli was injured last year but i don't recall ever seeing him on the team roster?? anyone?)

    Mullins - has basically everyone back from last year, if he can't get them to win conference then maybe he's not the right coach for IC.

    I don't really know anything about the new faces in the league but I will say UC lost one heck of a coach in Goodie!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 16, 2008, 10:12:20 AM
    Sorry for the spelling errors Baller...... I'll try to work on that  ::) By the way slicky, it's Bobby Hurley not Billy ;), but we knew who you were talking about.....Looks like we're getting into mid season form early, I like it....Only one day in, anyone with any recruiting info......Oh yea, someone mentioned early on Stevens only player with more than 3 assists per game was Farid ( sorry if I spelled that wrong, But I'll never get that one right..) I found that hard to believe, and checked... Greco averaged 3.2 per game...  ;) about 4 weeks to TIP........
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on October 16, 2008, 12:56:35 PM
    FROMAFAR


    Greco had 85 assists in 29 games...which equals 2.93 assist per game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on October 16, 2008, 06:17:41 PM
    It sounds like everyone will be chasing Ithaca this season. The Burton's, Coach M. Burton and his nephew, should lead the way. I am not sure who the better player is? Coach Burton could knock some shots down in his day. Go BOMBERS!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 17, 2008, 06:50:39 AM
    Cyclone, I used E-8 stats, 3.19 assists per game.... 16 games... That gives good comparison to other league players since same opponents... I believe, we'll see over 5 a game from him this year and 12 pts per game... Gray may avg. 20 per game, and Passalaqua, about 15 a game..... It's the rest of the team that's the key....

    I need at least 8 assists a game out of my guard play at RIT to be in the mix... and someone has to step up and be an outside threat, so Carson will have his way inside. BUT what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8 Coaches
    Post by: GPT on October 17, 2008, 02:06:44 PM
    In regards to who is the best coach in the hands down Empire Eight, In my opinion its Kornaker,if Goodenote would of stayed at Utica they woul be 1A and 1B

    Found a website that rates all the D3 coaches in the Rochester Area its pretty interesting
    www.empiresportd.synthasite.com
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 17, 2008, 02:30:58 PM
    GPT........ Thanks for the website....... I'll take McVean 3rd.  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on October 17, 2008, 08:29:04 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on October 17, 2008, 02:30:58 PM
    GPT........ Thanks for the website....... I'll take McVean 3rd.  ;)

    Good coaches all of them, but I'll take Coach Neer.  4 Final FOurs and a National Championship.  Plus, he's quite the character.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 17, 2008, 09:18:23 PM
    I would agree Neer has the Final Fours, on that new website they have Neer #1 www.empiresportd.synthasite.com
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 19, 2008, 09:43:30 PM
    Thanks for the website. That is an interesting look at the head coaching landscape in the Rochester area. I can't really disagree with much of it. Coach Neer is a really good coach on the recruiting and coaching side of things. I hope the recruiting that they talk about with Kornaker really shows this year (like with a big man or 2)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 20, 2008, 08:23:55 AM
    Fisher has no Bigs coming in this year. Top recruit is some kid out of Canandaiqua
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tarheel13 on October 20, 2008, 01:34:09 PM
    Quote from: scooterman on October 16, 2008, 06:17:41 PM
    It sounds like everyone will be chasing Ithaca this season. The Burton's, Coach M. Burton and his nephew, should lead the way. I am not sure who the better player is? Coach Burton could knock some shots down in his day. Go BOMBERS!!!
    I thought Coach Burton was a lock for the job at Utica.  What happened?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tarheel13 on October 20, 2008, 01:36:42 PM
    I thought Coach Burton from Ithaca was a lock for the Utica job. What happened?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on October 21, 2008, 06:30:26 PM
    Tarheel--I am with you --I thought he would be the man at Utica, seeing how he is Utica boy. Can he still shoot it with the best of them? Maybe he didn't apply? Best coach I have ever seen--
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 21, 2008, 09:07:57 PM
    Quote from: GPT on October 20, 2008, 08:23:55 AM
    Fisher has no Bigs coming in this year. Top recruit is some kid out of Canandaiqua

    Well that is not good to hear, considering what they lost from last year.

    Any other news from the Fisher camp? Who is this kid from Canadaigua? I don't think guards is what we need, but Kornaker knows what he is doing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on October 22, 2008, 12:13:22 PM
    Quote from: scooterman on October 21, 2008, 06:30:26 PM
    Tarheel--I am with you --I thought he would be the man at Utica, seeing how he is Utica boy. Can he still shoot it with the best of them? Maybe he didn't apply? Best coach I have ever seen--


    ....I think you probably were being a little enthusiastic..but umm, Coach Burton is not even close to the best coach you've ever seen.  Unless that is you don't watch any other basketball games at any level.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on October 24, 2008, 10:01:02 AM
    I don't have much info on fishers incoming question, however, I do think they are going to have to go to a guard oriented offense as they do  not have any true bigs on the entire team.  the only two bigs they  have are not 5 men they are more of a 4.  I don't think there guards are good enough, strong enough, or big enough to be able to take the conference by playing small as in prior years.  Could be a tough season for Fisher, I think they will have a hard time getting into the conf. tourny. 

    I think Ithaca and Naz have enough talent to swing in and out of the top 25 this year, however, both of those teams from looking at the past, tend to lose games they should win and are not very good on the road.  That being said if they do get into the top 25 at some point I don't think it will last long.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 24, 2008, 11:28:52 AM
    fisher has posted the 2008-2009 roster on there website. That new web site empire sports has said they are trying to put together some sort of review to find out what freshman will get some playing time and what type of rotation each team will use.  Should be interesting to see what coach will actually give up that info especially Fisher. But my source said he hopes to have it done before the first game Nov 1
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 24, 2008, 11:37:48 AM
    The problem the E-8 teams have getting into the top 25 is they beat one another. ( I know we all know that). Ithaca and Naz can both lose to Fisher no matter what they put on the court, as well as RIT and Stevens, and Utica.   Don't count out an upset from the other 3....Alfred, Elmira and Hartwick along the way............  I think top team has at least 4 loses in conference. But what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 24, 2008, 11:57:25 AM
    Something everybody seems to forget E8 teams will not be able to recruit with the midwest schools. I will give you one example the year UofR, Potsdam and Fisher went to Amherst and U of R went the the final four. The team Rochester lost to was one of those Wisconsin teams. Their starting five all scored over 2000 points in High School and that was quote from Neer at the Final Four in St. Louis.
    As long as other leagues and teams recruit players of that caliber consistantley. They get the benefit of the doubt in the top 25

    I don't know in what Neer said was true, you know how all head coaches love to stretch the truth but even if he was telling 80% of the the truth. I can't see any E8 team ever getting more then one player who scored more then 2000 points in HS unless they cheat and I know quite a few people and if these schools were to cheat it wouldn't be for basketball.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 24, 2008, 01:38:44 PM
    GPT I don't agree fully with you. I don't put all that much stock in HS. scoring, since I don't know who they are playing against, albeit 2000 points is alot even if your playing against no one. I think it all comes down to recruiting as well as academics. The E-8 has some pretty tough schools when it comes to academics. I know about RIT (my school) and Stevens (work associates) engineers.....  not an easy 4 years. Look at Naz, Fisher, and most of the rest... When you recruit at these schools you not only need a player but someone dedicated to school, with a track record in HS academics..  These coaches, as well as NESCAC have a tough job.... hey Amherst, Williams, and Trinity are all great programs academically and have produced top 25 teams consistantly...So I just feel it all comes down to the recruiting. I think many of the D3 athletes are smart enough to realize they are not going to the NBA. Let me have some fun playing the game and getting the best education I can.           
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 24, 2008, 01:58:59 PM
    I agree about the academic part, especially schools in Western NY, I am going to look into it but I believe some of those mid west schools have a recruiting advantage i believe it to be financially.I will let you know.
    Alot of those kids that go to those mid west schools are D1 players but chose to go to D3 programs.
    If I had to guess why, it would big fish in small pond,academics and financially are the top 3 reasonsthey go D3.

    I won't mention the school locally but they had a player offered a full ride to BC for football but chose to play D3 Basketball. It makes you think
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 24, 2008, 02:01:35 PM
    From a personal poit my kids aren't at that age yet but I would have no problem if they picked any of the schools in the E8 or anywhere else in NY. Including NYC. Im biased I grew up in NYC
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on October 24, 2008, 02:05:57 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on October 24, 2008, 01:38:44 PM
    GPT I don't agree fully with you. I don't put all that much stock in HS. scoring, since I don't know who they are playing against, albeit 2000 points is alot even if your playing against no one. I think it all comes down to recruiting as well as academics. The E-8 has some pretty tough schools when it comes to academics. I know about RIT (my school) and Stevens (work associates) engineers.....  not an easy 4 years. Look at Naz, Fisher, and most of the rest... When you recruit at these schools you not only need a player but someone dedicated to school, with a track record in HS academics..  These coaches, as well as NESCAC have a tough job.... hey Amherst, Williams, and Trinity are all great programs academically and have produced top 25 teams consistantly...So I just feel it all comes down to the recruiting. I think many of the D3 athletes are smart enough to realize they are not going to the NBA. Let me have some fun playing the game and getting the best education I can.           

    It may be a matter of where they recruit and tha tmay be dependant on budgets, I suppose.  In looking at SJF's roster, they have one kid from outside NY.  UR has 4 FROM NY.  The others are from Mich, Ky, Chicago, PA, NJ, NC & Fla.   There are some excellant regional schools in the E-8, but the UAA/NESCAC schools have a broader talent pool to recruit from.  No disrespect intended, but I imagine there are comparable schools to Fisher/Alfred/Hartwick etc located in the Midwest so a kid is less likely to move to upstate NY for 4 years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 24, 2008, 02:34:12 PM
    I couldn't agree more. I know alot of the local U of R haters are going to hate this. But the U of R ins considered one of the top academic schools in the country if not the world and rumor has it the biggest endowment in the states (over a billion) is that true I dont know. But that said if some senior is offered an academic schloarship to say Ithaca (great location,sports history and academics) or U of R and you want to major in medicine or engineering its a no brainer. I am not a big U of R fan. Fisher is the the team I follow the most. but the U of R is the biggest employer in the Rochester area and they have 250 million dollar construction project on the books.

    Thats why they are able to recruit from all over

    PS I am not kidding about that endowment
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on October 24, 2008, 02:39:30 PM
    Quote from: GPT on October 24, 2008, 02:34:12 PM
    I couldn't agree more. I know alot of the local U of R haters are going to hate this. But the U of R ins considered one of the top academic schools in the country if not the world and rumor has it the biggest endowment in the states (over a billion) is that true I dont know. But that said if some senior is offered an academic schloarship to say Ithaca (great location,sports history and academics) or U of R and you want to major in medicine or engineering its a no brainer. I am not a big U of R fan. Fisher is the the team I follow the most. but the U of R is the biggest employer in the Rochester area and they have 250 million dollar construction project on the books.

    Thats why they are able to recruit from all over

    PS I am not kidding about that endowment

    School of engineering just got 30 mil donation last week from the Chairman of the Board of Trustee's.    So the endowment just went up....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 24, 2008, 02:52:54 PM
    And that money is to be put a side for engineering scholarships only
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 24, 2008, 02:58:32 PM
    I wonder if they could put.5% into my endowment
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on October 24, 2008, 02:59:05 PM
    Quote from: GPT on October 24, 2008, 02:52:54 PM
    And that money is to be put a side for engineering scholarships only

    There was also something about a 3 mil donation to the school of medicine that was the start of a fund that would cover tuition  for those students.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 24, 2008, 03:14:45 PM
    I feel the only way the SJF's of the world will get a borderline D1 prospect to come to those schools is #1 if the kid doesn't want to be away from home and wants to major in one of the that schools top programs(for ex. SJF Educ. Pharmacy etc.) or thier parents are alums and they want to follow thier parents footsteps
    I can't see it any otherway,unless you cheat and that is higley unlikely
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: slickyquick on October 24, 2008, 08:09:33 PM
    It's all about packaging kids. If you have a high endowment then you can package kids better. I had a HS teammate that played football at UofR and his parents made more than enough money yet he got at least half off tuition. That's tough to turn down. To have a degree from that caliber of a school and pay a state school type tuition then it's a no brainer. That's basically what all the better private schools in the country do on a year to year basis. The problem usually is when the school decides that athletes don't get the great packages, then the sports suffer. I think Fisher is dealing with that right now a little.

    By the way, the former UofR player that turned down a scholarship for football from Boston College was Seth Hauben. I didn't think that was much of a secret. I'm sure he got a pretty good "package" to play for the Yellow Jackets.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on October 24, 2008, 08:20:17 PM
    Quote from: slickyquick on October 24, 2008, 08:09:33 PM
    It's all about packaging kids. If you have a high endowment then you can package kids better. I had a HS teammate that played football at UofR and his parents made more than enough money yet he got at least half off tuition. That's tough to turn down. To have a degree from that caliber of a school and pay a state school type tuition then it's a no brainer. That's basically what all the better private schools in the country do on a year to year basis. The problem usually is when the school decides that athletes don't get the great packages, then the sports suffer. I think Fisher is dealing with that right now a little.

    By the way, the former UofR player that turned down a scholarship for football from Boston College was Seth Hauben. I didn't think that was much of a secret. I'm sure he got a pretty good "package" to play for the Yellow Jackets.

    He sure made an impact at UR
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 24, 2008, 08:39:30 PM
    I would probably say he made out and the U of rR made out on that deal.

    Also according to another Head Coach in the area, they said he ran into Hauben a few times during his senior year and had nothing but great things to say about the kid. He was nothing but a standup kid

    Its just amazing that a kid pass's on a full ride to a Big East school and gos to the U of R if that doesn't tell you something....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 24, 2008, 08:41:44 PM
    Slick Quick you are dead on. I stated this before with Fishers Football program getting as good as it is.Basketball plays second fiddle
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 26, 2008, 10:24:01 AM
    It's hard to imagine the Basketball team playing second fiddle to the Football team since Bob Ward, former Basketball coach, is the AD, but I guess it is the case. Football is where the money is, I guess. Fisher does a good job recruiting for the most part, but some extra packages would be great. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 27, 2008, 08:19:19 AM
    This is all great stuff...... you guys are all on point...When the D3 school can package so the nut $$  is the same as a state school, they become competitive with the D2 school recruiting, and quite often the D3 schools are better academically... (not always, but generally).  So the student can now get a GREAT education.... PLAY the sport he/she loves....and not be too deep in tuition debt. when graduating....... The E-8 has some great schools academically, and a competitive athletic conference.  3 weeks to TIP...... ;)       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on October 27, 2008, 08:25:53 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on October 27, 2008, 08:19:19 AM
    This is all great stuff...... you guys are all on point...When the D3 school can package so the nut $$  is the same as a state school, they become competitive with the D2 school recruiting, and quite often the D3 schools are better academically... (not always, but generally).  So the student can now get a GREAT education.... PLAY the sport he/she loves....and not be too deep in tuition debt. when graduating....... The E-8 has some great schools academically, and a competitive athletic conference.  3 weeks to TIP...... ;)       

    One of the great disservices our "sports" culture perpetuates is that if you don't play DI, you're nothing more than a glorified intramural player.  Given how few DI players make it to the next level, I would argue that those who participate at DIII get more out of the experience.  Great education and more and more have the opportunity to play professionally overseas. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 27, 2008, 10:01:57 AM
    I couldn't agree more with Fromafar. I was on of those people. I went to a BIG Basketball HS in NY and  I didn't play Basketball I played another sport. But all I new was D1D1D1. Which was was a a shame from a personal standpoint. Unfortunatley it still that way downthere. Its one of those if I new what I know now sort of things. I am going down to NYC this December and trying to p/u a alumni BB Game and I will talk to the Head Coach of m HS and let him know that about western NY D3 basketball and see if he even heard of the Fishers and the Ithacas and Elmiras. I will let you you know how it went

    After talking to one E8 HC this might be the tightest E8 season in years with up to 5 to 6 teams having a shot at the auto bid
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on October 27, 2008, 12:28:42 PM
    The large number of d3 colleges in NY does not help with recruiting, especially around the rochester NY area.  year in and year out Rochester has around 2 maybe even 3 schools in top 25 (Fisher, UofR recent years, and Bport and Naz in some years).  Recruiting wise, that makes it tough as the players get spread around.  UofR plays in a better league and flies to games and also is the best academically so can recruit players from other areas better.  Fisher started to recruit elsewhere, last years team had a number of out of staters, but that doesnt necessarily make you better. the previous fisher teams that went far in the ncaa were majority from NY and were better than UofR that had out of staters.  From a West region stand point there are less D2 schools  and there are fewer d3 schools and they are much larger, making recruiting better. 

    From an earlier point on D8 teams beating each other, that is because there usually are not a lot of standout teams besides fisher in the past.  They were the best and beat everyone losing only a few games in a few years, thats what a top 25 team does in a weaker conference.  Teams like UofR and the teams in the Wisconsin league an lose more games and still be in as their conf. are much better.  The past years the E8 has not had many teams good enough to be in the top 25.  Fisher was, RIT was (low end of 25) the year murphy played, Naz the year they had jimmy evans, Utica during cichon and company, Bport and Potsdam the last few years, hamilton a year or two and thats about it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 28, 2008, 10:03:45 AM
    GPT when you go down to the city in December try to catch a Stevens game. They are playing NYU at Stevens on Dec. 6. They don't play again until late DECEMBER.........If you haven't seen the campus it's nice, and the town is pretty hopping.........Alot to do.......... They play RIT late January and I have to work my schedule so I can be down there for that one... hopefully it means something to RIT..... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 28, 2008, 10:45:39 AM
    I will try, no promises. When I go down I have to do all the family and friends stuff. I am trying to get an updated schedule from from my HS so I can go to a boys game. if not I might have to go to a girls game they are are probably better anyway. I am usually in NYC Turkey Day weekend this year I'm going in Dec so the kids can see the tree. So un fortunatley stevens is probably last on the list.

    Any other rosters available
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 28, 2008, 12:31:57 PM
    GPT That's too bad, I think as an E-8 fan you would have enjoyed it...  I can't make it either, checked my schedule I'll be on the other end.... I'm going to try and make the Rochester and Nazareth games early Dec. But I try to watch as many e-8 games as I can on the video. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on October 28, 2008, 12:47:24 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on October 28, 2008, 12:31:57 PM
    GPT That's too bad, I think as an E-8 fan you would have enjoyed it...  I can't make it either, checked my schedule I'll be on the other end.... I'm going to try and make the Rochester and Nazareth games early Dec. But I try to watch as many e-8 games as I can on the video. ;)

    We'll compare notes after the UR/RIT game.   ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 28, 2008, 01:27:41 PM
    Get ready unready....... that game will tell alot about RIT.... it's a good test for them to see where we are.......I think our shooting is key ( like it's not for everyone) but with Carson it will make life a little easier if they have to respect us outside..... I'll tell you this is going to be some season... No easy games and while Ithaca should be most consistant, they are vulnerable at times. I can't see anyone with less than 4 lost conference games. The team that can win on the road consistantly will pressuer the rest of the league. ( another great revelation). Big factor to watch is injuries as well. Not many teams are deep this year. I'll list the players that I feel each team cannot afford to lose in a future e-mail..... I ahve to earn my paycheck now...  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on October 28, 2008, 01:43:32 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on October 28, 2008, 01:27:41 PM
    Get ready unready....... that game will tell alot about RIT.... it's a good test for them to see where we are.......I think our shooting is key ( like it's not for everyone) but with Carson it will make life a little easier if they have to respect us outside..... I'll tell you this is going to be some season... No easy games and while Ithaca should be most consistant, they are vulnerable at times. I can't see anyone with less than 4 lost conference games. The team that can win on the road consistantly will pressuer the rest of the league. ( another great revelation). Big factor to watch is injuries as well. Not many teams are deep this year. I'll list the players that I feel each team cannot afford to lose in a future e-mail..... I ahve to earn my paycheck now...  ;)

    Didn't mean to mislead you, but while I have a nephew who is a track stud at RIT, I have closer ties to U of R basketball.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on October 28, 2008, 08:58:03 PM
    Hello everyone. I have been reading the posts from time to time and then I got very busy in my football season, as a modified football coach. I also am out of Ithaca now and teaching in the New York City Metro Area. My school blocks the D3 Hoops website so it has been tough to get on and catch up. I have heard a lot about the Bombers this year from some close friends still in Ithaca and I have very big expectations. They return a talented group of core players and have added at least one piece in a freshman guard. The Bombers recently scrimmaged Cornell University (who made the NCAA Tourney) and won in the first half by 4 points. They lost the second half by 7. It is important to note that Cornell was without Louis Dale and Alex Tyler (Two Starters and Dale is an all-league player). Ithaca played at full strength in the first half but rested some players in the second half to prevent injury. I was told they rested the senior guards to prevent injury and wanted to get some younger guys experience.

    I will hopefully cacth up to the post patterns and be ready to go as the season starts. It will be tough being out of Ithaca and I start coaching basketball in two weeks. However, I don't know how much being in Ithaca would help as the Bombers play all most all of the first semester on the road.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 29, 2008, 10:34:49 AM
    Welcome back Bomber...... good to hear from you. YEP your on the hot seat. Great expectations and any slips will be magnified... makes for fun posts..... Good luck coaching. You can get some great advise from all your post buddies....... ::)  hey do what I do, catch some games at Stevens.. (if your not too busy) you can see many of the other teams. Your right the schedules are a little crazy... teams play blocks of home and blocks of away... 5 and 6 ata time???  Any way good to hear from you...

    Hey Ethelred, that's ok.... doesn't matter who your allegiance is to, we can still comapre notes. One thing I noticed on this web site.....even those with allegiance Alumni etc. tell it like it is.... also give praise to others when deserving.  But what do I know ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on October 29, 2008, 01:19:58 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on October 29, 2008, 10:34:49 AM
    Welcome back Bomber...... good to hear from you. YEP your on the hot seat. Great expectations and any slips will be magnified... makes for fun posts..... Good luck coaching. You can get some great advise from all your post buddies....... ::)  hey do what I do, catch some games at Stevens.. (if your not too busy) you can see many of the other teams. Your right the schedules are a little crazy... teams play blocks of home and blocks of away... 5 and 6 ata time???  Any way good to hear from you...

    Hey Ethelred, that's ok.... doesn't matter who your allegiance is to, we can still comapre notes. One thing I noticed on this web site.....even those with allegiance Alumni etc. tell it like it is.... also give praise to others when deserving.  But what do I know ;)   

    Man, I just want the season to start.  I am sick to death of politics.  And while I love football on Sat/Sun, the wait is too long between games.  The NBA helps, but only marginally. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 29, 2008, 02:58:31 PM
    What politics? What Election?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 30, 2008, 08:51:05 AM
    GPT.... lets not even get close to that..... we are all very friendly right now, and that issue could spill over, unless we all agree........we might because most of you you sound as smart as me when it comes to politics ( just kidding)...seriously, lets stick to hoops doesn't get as messy.....I checked my schedule I will be in the city Nov. 15... I am going to make every effort to get to the Stevens tip off..... should have some some insight as to the new coach, and the style they play....... see how Grey ( or is it Gray ???), Greco and Passalaqua look this year.......I'm counting on you northerners to get some Upsatae games in early... As I said I will see RIT in early Dec. as well as Naz. and U of R.........as Ethel said I just can't wait to get this paryy started... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 02, 2008, 02:32:35 PM
    Is there any big time recruits in the E8 this year? I hear this kid from Canandaigua looks good for Fisher, but other than that, I don't know.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on November 02, 2008, 03:59:09 PM
    His name is Conner Henderson he went to Canandaiqua Academy. They have him listed at 6'3" 190.
    From what I heard, he is very athletic. If you go to any of the the Section V blogs some people say he was the the best athlete. He played Basketball, Lacrosse and Football and was captainI  believe on all three teams. I did see a few pictures and he does look bigger then 190.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on November 03, 2008, 08:32:05 PM
    Henderson was a "lights-out" shooter in HS and was not afraid to launch from anywhere.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 04, 2008, 03:15:39 PM
    Welcome back Bomber

    From...a...Far  go easy on the ellipses.

    +k to both.

    Edit:

    The new post activity motivated me to check out IC's 2008-2009 schedule and it is quite a doozy.

    The Bombers only have two non-conference home games and one of those comes after winter break so, until January, they are in the Bulb just once.

    They also don't appear to be making a trip over the winter break.  The last few years they have played in tournaments down here in Florida but that appears over.

    Tough road.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 04, 2008, 08:48:50 PM
    Thanks for the info about henderson guys. Hopefully, he can be a big time shooter to pick up the slack when Baltz and Newman are off. When they are on, if he can shoot and Franklin gets going, they can score points. I still hate the idea that we don't have a real big man. Guard play is important, but sometimes you need to get easy buckets inside.

    I am looking forward to the season almost as much as I am looking forward to the big Ithaca/Fisher soccer game this Friday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 09, 2008, 10:37:34 AM
    Are there any teams playing a scrimmage this week? I haven't heard of any, but I haven't really looked into it all that much.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on November 11, 2008, 02:12:37 PM
    Does anyone know Fisher Big Announcement today for the Athletic Dept?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 11, 2008, 02:26:52 PM
    Phil Kahler, the Womens Basketball head coach and one of the winningest coaches in College Basketball, is announcing his retirement from what I have heard. It seems like a bit of a let down, but I think the man deserves a lot of credit. He has been a class act his entire career, and has brought a lot of notoriety and positive attention to Fisher as a school. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on November 11, 2008, 10:34:49 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 02, 2008, 02:32:35 PM
    Is there any big time recruits in the E8 this year? I hear this kid from Canandaigua looks good for Fisher, but other than that, I don't know.

    Utica has a 36 year old former coach and member of the Angolan Olympic team in 1992. The guy can shoot the lights out and will average a double double. If he was in his prime, the guy would be good enough to transfer to Syracuse to play for Boeheim.









    I'm kidding.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on November 13, 2008, 08:11:45 AM
    Really nice area college basketball preview in the Democrat and Chronicle today. 

    The online version isn't as pretty -- but here it is:

    http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20081113/SPORTS09/811130367/1007/SPORTS


    And the D&C is calling Naz the team to beat around town, with a couple of nice quotes from Ryan McAdam and Fisher's Kornaker:

    http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20081113/SPORTS09/811130356/1007/SPORTS

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 13, 2008, 10:04:40 AM
    Interesting stuff...thank Bamm.

    Any word on what Fisher's starting 5 are going to be? I know they have a lot of guards to choose from, but who is going to play the inside positions. Going small is one thing, but you have to stop somebody inside/Score easy buckets from time to time.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 13, 2008, 09:47:19 PM
    Big Weekend for the Ithaca Bombers sports teams just down the road in Cortland, NY. The football teams play the famous rivalry game at 12 (8-1 at 9-0, you can't ask for anything better than that). Then the basketball teams open up at Cortland's Gym at 7. As of now I am 95% going to be there but the football tickets have been cold out and finding enough for everyone who wants to go is almost impossible.  I expect a good first game from both teams who have high expectations. Ithaca beat up on SUNY Morrisville back on Halloween weekend.

    I expect to see Bostic, Leahy, Rogers and Burton start, however the 5th starter I am not sure about. I hear a lot of good things about frosh Jordan Marcus and I am excited to see him play. Met him last year when he visited the school and was a very level headed and smart kid. Last year I saw Phil Barera and Chris Cruz play a few times and I think both will be very important for the Bomber's to repeat and improve on last year. Still wondering how the Bombers will handle adversity and who will step up and be a leader for this team. Losing Kail hurt a lot. He was the team's emotional leader on the court and also vocal leader off the court and his leadership will be missed this season, especially turning the tough start to the season on the road. Overall, I think the Bomber's first semester schedule is very competitive and made even tougher with all of the road trips. I hope to see it stimulate them to unify as a team and use the road trips to prepare for a tough season of conference play.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 14, 2008, 09:41:49 AM
    Nice post BAMM.......  Bomber you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I think you guys have enough to get it done. Naz will be tough, and Fisher always tough at home. Stevens is a wild card. If they have their big 4 (Grey, Greco, Passalaqua, and Baker) working on all cylinders, and can get some inside help ( albeit young in there), they should be tough at home. They can't afford any injuries or foul trouble from those 4 or they are in trouble. I am going to their tourney this weekend, I should get a good read. My guys RIT ....one senior, Carson, and 4 jrs. are young.... But I think gritty enough to make a run at top 4.... It will take some luck however. They open at a tournament at Drew next week. I am not down so I will miss that in person.  Hopefully I can see on internet.   We're almost there........ ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: MHoops on November 14, 2008, 11:10:22 AM
    Empire 8 preseason coaches poll:  (http://www.empire8.com/News/20081110-1.shtml)

    2008 Empire 8 Men's Basketball Preseason Coaches Poll
    1.   Ithaca College (7 first-place votes)                     63 points
    2.   Nazareth College (1)                                         56
    3.   Utica College (1)                                              48
    4.   St. John Fisher College                                      41
    5.   Stevens Institute of Technology                         36
    6.   Rochester Institute of Technology                      35
    7.   Hartwick College                                              20
    8.   Elmira College                                                  16
    9.   Alfred University                                                9
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 14, 2008, 02:35:28 PM
    Fromafar -


    I caught the Stevens scrimmage last weekend and Greco has been taken out of the starting lineup.  I asked someone in a Stevens t-shirt (I'm assuming a parent) and was informed that Greco didn't start either scrimmage, and is losing some of his playing time to some incoming freshman they're high on.


    The starting lineup for tomorrow night (if form holds like the scrimmages)


    Gray, Passalacqua, Baker, Higgins, Franklin



    ...Greco was very effective on the NCAA team coming off the bench.  Albeit they had a 4 year starter in front of him, but he seemed to excel in the sparkplug role.  Think the new coach is trying to bring that back out?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on November 15, 2008, 12:27:58 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on November 14, 2008, 02:35:28 PM
    Fromafar -


    I caught the Stevens scrimmage last weekend and Greco has been taken out of the starting lineup.  I asked someone in a Stevens t-shirt (I'm assuming a parent) and was informed that Greco didn't start either scrimmage, and is losing some of his playing time to some incoming freshman they're high on.


    The starting lineup for tomorrow night (if form holds like the scrimmages)


    Gray, Passalacqua, Baker, Higgins, Franklin



    ...Greco was very effective on the NCAA team coming off the bench.  Albeit they had a 4 year starter in front of him, but he seemed to excel in the sparkplug role.  Think the new coach is trying to bring that back out?

    ...whoa whoa whoa. Greco isn't starting? But I thought some people here talk about him like he's the best PG in the league? I certainly know Burton, Herring or C. McAdams wouldn't lose their starting PG role to a freshie.

    About the sparkplug role? eh, possibly. But that's a tough role to switch back to after starting for 2 seasons and being used to being in the game from the tip off. Tough transition there, let's see how he handles the 'demotion.' However, I firmly believe it doesn't matter who starts a game, it's who is in there at the end when the game is tight - will it be Greco or the fresh?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 15, 2008, 06:05:00 PM
    e8bball-


    Couple corrections.  Greco only started 1 season (last year).  The year before he was sitting behind Floyd Morris, a senior who graduated as the school's career leader in assists.  So Greco has 1 year starting, 1 year sitting.


    Secondly, I maybe wasn't clear.  Greco didn't lose his starting spot to a freshman.  Neither Greco nor the freshman started the scrimmages.  And chances are neither will finish the games, though if I had to chose (or what I think is smart), Greco will be finishing the games for Stevens.  If not, then it'll be Gray and Baker sharing the point guard responsibilities (same thing they did at the end of last season).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on November 15, 2008, 09:59:26 PM
    UC beats Caz 91-68 to open their season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 15, 2008, 10:18:00 PM
    Bombers rip rival Cortland, 80-56. Determined to beat the Red Dragons by more than the Ithaca football team defeated Cortland in the earlier Cortaca Jug game, Ithaca took control early. The Bombers took the lead for good 3 minutes into the game and never looked back. But for 26 seconds, Ithaca led by double-digits for the last 27 minutes of the game.

    Ithaca was led by sophomore Chris Cruz who scored 22 points and added 7 rebounds. Sean Burton had a tough shooting night (4-16), but filled the box score with 13-6-6. Bostic takes only 5 shots and finishes with 6 pts and 8 rebs. Brendan Rogers with 13 pts and Scott Ruffrage chips in with 8 pts off the bench. Freshman Jordan Marcus has 5 steals in 16 minutes.

    Great statement win by the Bombers. Ithaca owned Cortland today on the gridiron and the hardcourt.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 16, 2008, 12:23:04 AM
    Excellent news, GB15, elsewhere around E8 Opening Day/Night:

    Utica rips Cazenovia 91-68 as UCGrad45 said, Doug Herring with 16 points and 7 assists to lead 5 in double figures.

    Elmira loses 76-53 to Geneseo - Bobby DiPiazza with 15 for EC.  Elmira was eaten alive by Jeff Howe (27 and 15) and Scott Morton (22 and 9), Geneseo may be a team to look out for in the 'YAC.

    Alfred beats Wells in Dale Wellman debut 71-64 - Pat Smithgall 13 and 13 double-double.

    A bad day all around to be a Fisher fan, Cards lose 56-50 at home to DeSales.  Ozell Franklin leads with 11 points.

    Stevens smashes pitiful Polytechnic 91-54 - Passalacqua (22), Gray (21) and Higgins (11/13) tied Poly by themselves.  Ducks will play Manhattanville to try to win their own tip off tournament tomorrow.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 16, 2008, 10:27:31 AM
    Interesting development down in Hoboken!



    George Greco, last year's starting point guard, is no longer on the 2008-2009 roster, and did not play last night.  This means 1 of 2 things:  injury or quit.  If anyone is going to the game tonight against Manhattanville, try to find out.  I'm out of town but I'll see if I can get in touch with some of my people over there and figure out the story.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 16, 2008, 12:51:46 PM
    Before I get into the Bombers game from last night, I spoke to a friend of mine who is a graduate assistant coach at Manhattanville. I asked him if he knew why Greco didn't play and he said "I don't know what happened, he is not on the team."
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 16, 2008, 01:39:51 PM
    Great game from the Bombers last night. Some players had slow starts and it was good to see others pick up the slack. Big first halves from Brendan Rogers and Chris Cruz who was the fifth starter. Then, Burton and Leahy picked up their games in the second half and really put it on the Red Dragons. The Bombers used four guys off their bench and everyone contributed.  Ruffrage, Brown, Marcus and Barera were the four off the bench. Marcus played great defense but seemed a little nervous in his first game. He played with confidence in himself which I liked and I think he is going to be a big contributor for the Bombers this year (6 Steals). Brown and Barera were big on the boards for the Bombers. Seemed like Bostic was off to a slow start once again but I think he will pick it up going into next weekend. He picked up two quick fouls to start the second half and had to sit down with three total fouls.

    I was not impressed with a highly ranked Cortland team, their perimeter players looked very bad last night. They got nothing from Coston or Niehoff, also a poor showing from Mike Lewis. The Bombers perimeter players shut everyone down except for some hot shooting from Ron Evans to end the first half. The Bombers rebounded well (50 -35) and the only thing they could have done better was interior defense against Paul Oliver who scored mostly on lay-ups and a few put-backs.

    I might not get to another game first semester but I do expect the Bombers to continue to play well if they play with the energy and confidence they had last night. I also expect that they will have a huge game versus Hobart on Tuesday, who they lost to last year. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 16, 2008, 09:38:48 PM
    Does anyone have a report on the Fisher game yesterday? It looked like a close game the entire way, but I am just getting that from the website. I did see a lot of new names on the write up. Any help?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2008, 01:17:29 AM
    Gray and Higgins combine for 35 points as Stevens torches Manhattanville 76-54.  Virgil Gray tournament MVP.

    One game Monday and 5 Tuesday including interesting matchups in Hartwick-Oneonta, Cortland-Utica and Hobart-Ithaca.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 17, 2008, 08:06:49 AM
    I was at the Stevens tournament. Greco is not on the team. My friend who is a Stevens Grad, spoke to someone in the Athletic Department about Greco. He is not injured and he's on the Deans list, so those are not issues. It appears the coach was looking for him to ignite off the bench. The coach is going with Baker at the point and starting Higgans at the 4.  He was at the games and noticeably pulling for his team, so, doesn't look like any issues there.   The freshman you guys are mentioning (Sanchez) is not an issue. Very raw and had "happy feet". Nervous... too many turn overs when he was in.. Stevens crushed two teams they should have crushed... I really think when the competition gets tough they are shallow at the point without Greco. This could be devastating in league play. Gives my guys another chance at tournament......Word is he could be back.  RIT's tourney games at Drew, are important as they should win that Tourney or we are in for a long season as well.

    It appears Ithaca looked real good out of the gate. I didn't see the game, but looking at the box and at Cortland, against a highly regarded team, tells us something.  ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2008, 09:44:51 AM
    sjfcards- fisher lost to desales u at home.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on November 17, 2008, 11:32:54 AM
    Cyclone - thanks for the explanation but looks like that doesn't matter anymore...wow, no more Greco, interesting...

    Off day for Baltz and fisher, Baltz 0-8 from the floor, not a good start.

    Meanwhile, sounds like it was a great day to be a Bomber. I remember hearing about how Cruz would help them out last year, if he can keep it up that is a great addition for IC and a bit of pressure off Burton, Rogers, Leahy, Bostic...well, typing that sentence I just realized they are loaded. They have 4, now 5, kids that can put up 20 any night.

    I'm so glad the season has started. Best of luck and health to everyone!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 17, 2008, 12:29:52 PM
    Baller, good hearing from you........ Your right IC has it all, and no excuses. I hope they get their due at some point. Top 25, The E8 gets overlooked quite often there, and IF they do what they are supposed to, they should be recognized... Yep it's on....... this should be a fun year. ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 17, 2008, 12:37:05 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 17, 2008, 12:29:52 PM
    Baller, good hearing from you........ Your right IC has it all, and no excuses. I hope they get their due at some point. Top 25, The E8 gets overlooked quite often there, and IF they do what they are supposed to, they should be recognized... Yep it's on....... this should be a fun year. ;) 

    Looking forward to seeing IC this weekend at the Resler Tournament at UR.  They play Trinity on Friday and then either UR or Pitt-Bradford Saturday.  Have heard Trinity is pretty tough but don't really know if you can trust a fans perspective.   :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on November 17, 2008, 01:22:13 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 16, 2008, 12:23:04 AM
    Excellent news, GB15, elsewhere around E8 Opening Day/Night:

    Utica rips Cazenovia 91-68 as UCGrad45 said, Doug Herring with 16 points and 7 assists to lead 5 in double figures.

    Elmira loses 76-53 to Geneseo - Bobby DiPiazza with 15 for EC.  Elmira was eaten alive by Jeff Howe (27 and 15) and Scott Morton (22 and 9), Geneseo may be a team to look out for in the 'YAC.

    Alfred beats Wells in Dale Wellman debut 71-64 - Pat Smithgall 13 and 13 double-double.

    A bad day all around to be a Fisher fan, Cards lose 56-50 at home to DeSales.  Ozell Franklin leads with 11 points.

    Stevens smashes pitiful Polytechnic 91-54 - Passalacqua (22), Gray (21) and Higgins (11/13) tied Poly by themselves.  Ducks will play Manhattanville to try to win their own tip off tournament tomorrow.

    Doesn't seem like too many surprises this weekend, although the Alfred win was surprising until I realized they beat Wells, in its first year with a men's basketball team. Winning by 7 over a new program, looks like the bottom of the league is shaking out with Elmira and Alfred bringing up the rear. We'll see how Hartwick is this week to see if they'll be joining in that group at the bottom. My guess is yes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 18, 2008, 06:54:49 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on November 17, 2008, 01:22:13 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 16, 2008, 12:23:04 AM
    Excellent news, GB15, elsewhere around E8 Opening Day/Night:

    Utica rips Cazenovia 91-68 as UCGrad45 said, Doug Herring with 16 points and 7 assists to lead 5 in double figures.

    Elmira loses 76-53 to Geneseo - Bobby DiPiazza with 15 for EC.  Elmira was eaten alive by Jeff Howe (27 and 15) and Scott Morton (22 and 9), Geneseo may be a team to look out for in the 'YAC.

    Alfred beats Wells in Dale Wellman debut 71-64 - Pat Smithgall 13 and 13 double-double.

    A bad day all around to be a Fisher fan, Cards lose 56-50 at home to DeSales.  Ozell Franklin leads with 11 points.

    Stevens smashes pitiful Polytechnic 91-54 - Passalacqua (22), Gray (21) and Higgins (11/13) tied Poly by themselves.  Ducks will play Manhattanville to try to win their own tip off tournament tomorrow.

    Doesn't seem like too many surprises this weekend, although the Alfred win was surprising until I realized they beat Wells, in its first year with a men's basketball team. Winning by 7 over a new program, looks like the bottom of the league is shaking out with Elmira and Alfred bringing up the rear. We'll see how Hartwick is this week to see if they'll be joining in that group at the bottom. My guess is yes.

    Certainly time will tell, but Coach Wellman has been promised an appearance by the AU Pep Band at McLane Center Gym upon his Saxons winning FIVE games. But seriously, opening the season with a win at Ben Light? Can it get any better?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on November 18, 2008, 07:58:38 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on November 18, 2008, 06:54:49 AM

    Certainly time will tell, but Coach Wellman has been promised an appearance by the AU Pep Band at McLane Center Gym upon his Saxons winning FIVE games. But seriously, opening the season with a win at Ben Light? Can it get any better?


    Ben Light filled with the Wells Express, not the Ithaca Bombers, it's important to note. Based on IC's dominance of CState, I'm guessing AU will not be successful during their next trip there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 18, 2008, 07:43:18 PM
    Anyone else watching the webcast of the IC-Hobart game tonight?  It will never cease to amaze me that I get to watch my alma mater from my living room that is a mere 2,000 miles from the South Hill.

    Burton is really a joy to watch.  It really doesn't matter who you root for, if you like basketball, you have to like watching this kid.

    Two other thoughts:

    1) IC's interior defense appears to be a work in progress at this point.  Bostic really isn't running the floor on D and no one else is protecting the rim.  Hard to defend in transition if no one is there to erase easy layups.

    2) The ICTV broadcast crew is really doing a great job BUT, the color guy insists on calling rebounds "bounds."  It's like nails on a chalkboard for some reason.

    EDIT: Did Coach Mullins add a wireless hot spot to the home lockerroom?  Bostic opens the second half with a MONSTER block.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 18, 2008, 08:49:13 PM
    The massacre is over, 118-81. Ithaca puts a hurting on Hobart. I was at last year's game and I am sure that this was some revenge for the stinging loss Ithaca suffered last year at their place. As Jose said it is really nice to watch the game at home, even though I am only 225 miles from Ithaca. Burton (25 first half points) and the Bombers were great throughout and it is good to see they had the killer instinct. In years past they may have let the opponent hang around but they crushed Hobart. I agree with one point from the ICTV broadcast crew, which is the fact that the Bombers have a tough starting line-up and a very formidable bench this year. I hope they are ready for this weekend and can continue to play at a high level when they face adversity. I believe they can and will do so in this weekend's tournament iup in Rochester. I hope if they do win and the team finally gets some attention and respect in the polls. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 18, 2008, 09:21:05 PM
    Stevens is back to their usual trend of stomping on Former Atlantic Region foes.  Went over to the College of Staten Island and won 90-48.


    This one was never close.  Passalacqua, a Staten Island native, went home and nailed three pointer and three pointer.  Also got a look at the freshman point guard Sanchez.  A little out of control (it's what you expect from a freshman), but with Baker playing a very good point guard so far   (something like 18 assists to 6 turnovers before tonight..somewhere around there..all they are looking for from Sanchez is a spark and some offense.  He contributed double digits tonight off the bench.


    Virgil Gray is going to battle Burton and Herrig all year for E8 player of the year.  He gets to the basket whenever he wants against whoever he wants.



    Red Flag:  STEVENS INSIDE GAME IS NON-EXISTENT!  Graduation really hit the Ducks hard down low, and any teams with formidable big men who can slow the game against the Ducks down will be able to present trouble.  However, I don't think running with Stevens this year is a good idea.  Then again, it wasn't a good idea last year either.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 18, 2008, 10:59:19 PM
    Fisher wins tonight in unimpressive fashion, by 3 over Dyouville. Just looking at the box score, I don't see Baltz anywhere in it. What is the starting 5 for Fisher? I see Quinn Smith is getting the playing time we were promised last year, and a few freshman are getting good minutes. Interesting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 19, 2008, 07:57:51 AM
    Cyclone, great read on Stevens. I saw their Tourney games. Grey is very athletic and I agree could get POY, but they need to overachieve as a team in the E-8 for that to hapen. I'm not sure that can happen. Hey they crushed 3 teams so far, however 3 teams they should crush... I hate when people say "yea but they didn't play anybody good". If they convincingly handle the so called "not good team', then don't knock them, they beat them. That being said they have a few achilles heels. Inside strength is not there, young and inexperienced. While Passalaqua is deadly,  look at the Manhattanville game. They played in his face and he only took 2 or 3 shots. He does not drive the basket, he plays "horse". Notice how few foul shots he gets. No other 3 point shooter. The E-8 will figure that out. While Baker is strong he is a little slow for the point, and when he gets into foul trouble they are in trouble. The freshman looks very shakey. He couldn't handle Manhattanville's pressure,  he turned it over about 4 times. We will find out how good they are when they open against Nazareth.

    Ithaca is better than than I thought. again, competition weak, but sounds like they were just running drills all night. I truly believe this team should be and will be in top 25 before long...... Of course RIT will spoil the perfect season for them  ;D  but what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 19, 2008, 08:39:28 AM
    Quote from: JoseQViper on November 18, 2008, 07:43:18 PM
    Anyone else watching the webcast of the IC-Hobart game tonight?  It will never cease to amaze me that I get to watch my alma mater from my living room that is a mere 2,000 miles from the South Hill.

    Burton is really a joy to watch.  It really doesn't matter who you root for, if you like basketball, you have to like watching this kid.

    Two other thoughts:

    1) IC's interior defense appears to be a work in progress at this point.  Bostic really isn't running the floor on D and no one else is protecting the rim.  Hard to defend in transition if no one is there to erase easy layups.

    2) The ICTV broadcast crew is really doing a great job BUT, the color guy insists on calling rebounds "bounds."  It's like nails on a chalkboard for some reason.

    EDIT: Did Coach Mullins add a wireless hot spot to the home lockerroom?  Bostic opens the second half with a MONSTER block.

    Pep is pleased to report that AU took care of PSU-Wilkes-Barre 80-49 Monday night to start the season at 2-0! Pep was told the competition was pitiful, but hey, the AU men's basketball team at 2-0? Pep will take it. Perhaps time to revive the Saxon Sillies as AUKaz00 had plenty of experience with that group. Coach Dale Wellman off to a positive start.

    Incidentally, AU is working on equipping the Merrill Field press box to allow for webcasting of games. (Technology may take a bit longer to get out here in Mayberry, but eventually we get it.) Perhaps McLane Center will also be wired...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 19, 2008, 09:13:01 AM
    yikes a 3 point win over dyouville?
    eek- down year for fisher for sure!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: WNYHoops on November 19, 2008, 12:38:19 PM
    D'Youville played very well and had the game if not for a couple turnovers down the stretch. Spartans led by 6 at the break and it was back and forth most of the second half. Lead changed hands 4 times in the last few minutes. With Fisher up 3, DYC had the ball and missed two 3's in the closing seconds which would have sent the game to OT.

    I don't see Fisher play too often, but they had some physically strong guards. Their inside game was non-existant. D'Youville is small but very athletic on the wings. I believe Fisher will do fine in the league once they settle into their roles. I did see Baltz's name in the program but he did not play in the game. D'Youville will beat a lot of people in their league ... which is poor overall. I believe they could also compete with the middle and lower teams in the Empire 8 this season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on November 19, 2008, 12:49:43 PM
    I, along with over 3,000 other fans watched Hartwick  beat Oneonta State 70-59 in the O-State gym.   Always a great cross-town rivilalry, regardless of the teams records.     Hartwick's freshman point guard, Mark Blazek is a player.   He led all scorers with 23 pts on 8/13 shooting, (3/5 from 3pt range), while playing as a true point guard.   Gives Wick a legit complement  to Cocco.   He could help bring Hartwick up a couple of spots in the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 19, 2008, 01:37:01 PM
    Fisher is going to have a hard time ending the season above 500 in my opinion.  They are way to young and do not have ANY size at all.  There is no way they are going to be able to compete with Naz or Ithaca.  When they get some more confidence and their rotation comes finalized in the 2nd semester they may be able to pull off some upsets with matchup problems but can't see them winning against better teams on a consistent basis.  Hopefully this will be a good learning season for the underclassmen and they can get a transfer or two for the next year as freshmen bigs for 2009-10 will not be able to get them over the hump completely.   

    I do like their top 3 freshmen recruits all seem to be players and will be a good base going forward.  Baltz and newman are going to need to step it up much more in order for Fisher to be competitive against the middle tier of the league.  I think they may finish 6-9 this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on November 19, 2008, 04:41:45 PM
    Saw a bit of the IC-Hobart second half, coming out of the break, and the Bombers looked damn impressive. Didn't see any of the first half, when they apparently struggled, but caught the 29-4 (or something like that) run they went on after halftime. Hobart was absolutely no match for them at all.

    As for the ICTV guys, I have to agree with Jose, they kept using slang terms the entire time I was watching. I'm not necessarily opposed to mixing it up a little bit, but it would have been nice to hear something regular once in a while. It was almost like they got a 5 minute tutorial on terminology from Stuart Scott prior to the game for their only exposure to basketball.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on November 19, 2008, 11:13:14 PM
    Chris Baltz is no longer listed on the SJF website.....any news as to whats going on with him????
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3hero on November 20, 2008, 09:05:37 PM
    It has been a long, long time since Hartwick even made an Empire 8 playoff appearance but beating O-State should show that maybe this might be their year.

    However, i think the Empire 8 is stronger than it's been in a long time and Hartwick is still on the outside looking in. 

    We'll see how they do against a very athletic and tall York College team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on November 20, 2008, 09:26:27 PM
    Baltz? Anyone? Did he quit??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 20, 2008, 10:45:16 PM
    Just saw the questions about Baltz and I contacted some sources. I heard he quit the team, did not get any details.

    Big game for the Bombers tomorrow. Hate this one pm start time. Hopefully I will be able to catch the end after the school day ends. Trinity looks down from recent years, plus they have a longer trip. Bombers will travel a lot of family and friends to teh game, so they will at least have some fans. I saw the Bombers but up big numbers once again.

    Go Bombers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 21, 2008, 09:41:05 AM
    Baltz quit.  Not too bad considering he is not very athletic and isnt much of a leader anyways for an upperclassmen.  Gives more time to hungry freshmen that will play harder.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 21, 2008, 04:09:28 PM
    Ithaca rallies to beat Trinity 80-75. 19 from Brendan Rogers and 16 a piece for Bostic and Burton. Did get to follow the game as I was at work but it says Burton and Rogers lead the second half rally, Ithaca was down 7 at the intermission. Maybe a reason for such a tight game was Bombers shot 2-19 from the 3 point arc. Maybe it was the early start (1 PM) or a combination of that and the line moving back that had the first poor night from behind the arc. Always good to see the can pull out a W, despite the poor game shooting percentage wise. Ithaca hit 16-20 free throws but they were out rebounded 41-36. I will try and get some more insight but I am guessing that Trinty's 19 turnovers and lack of experience compared to the veteran Bomber squad helped them over come a poor performance.  Big game tomorrow night as the Bombers can start 4-0 for the first time in 22 years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 21, 2008, 11:55:09 PM
    You may want to sit down for this bit of news because it will be a great shock, but....Hartwick is for serious.  68-62 win over York PA, 33 for Cocopuffs.  They'll play Purchase, who slipped by host New Paltz 81-78.

    Naz lost by 15 to St. Mary's (Md.) in their opener - DeHimer with 25 and 6; McAdam 20 and 9 dimes.
    Naz got a tech for a player wearing an incorrect jersey, huh?

    RIT looks bad in 21-point loss to St. Joseph's of Long Island.

    Elmira gets drubbed by Keuka - and for the 584th year in a row, Elmira sucks at basketball.  Good to know.

    Alfred beat Juniata 71-65, Saxons looking surprisingly good early on.  19 for Bobby Barry, 15 each for Carl Embury and Jared Patt.

    Utica shakes off 1-10 night from Herring to beat Lehman 65-58 at home; Patrick Goodman steps up with 21 points and Robert Whyte posts 15/11 double-double.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3hero on November 22, 2008, 12:30:46 AM
    Hartwick will have their hands full tomorrow against Purchase.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jdex on November 22, 2008, 10:07:03 AM

    Caz,
    Don't want to diminish Wick's win, but it came to the lesser of the Yorks ......as in NYers, not PAers .....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 22, 2008, 10:37:31 AM
    Quote from: jdex on November 22, 2008, 10:07:03 AM

    Caz,
    Don't want to diminish Wick's win, but it came to the lesser of the Yorks ......as in NYers, not PAers .....

    WHOOPS for me then.  I read Hartwick's release on their site and I coulda sworn the original draft said York PA.  It says York NY this morning.  Still, Wick actually beating anybody is a start.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 10:51:02 AM
    BTW, nobody mentioned it the other night but Cortland State downed Utica, 68-62. Nice road win for the Red Dragons. Winning in Utica is often a difficult thing to do. With the drubbing Ithaca dealt Cortland, followed by this result, the pecking order seems clear heading into the E8 season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 22, 2008, 11:46:20 AM
    Ehhh, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on that bandwagon gobombers.

    I too think Ithaca will finish ahead of Utica at the end of the season, but as I remember correctly Ithaca lost to Potsdam St. to start last season 93-82 and Utica beat Potsdam State later 74-67.  If there is 1 thing the empire 8 has shown over the years, it's that the "we beat x, who beat y, so we're better than y" logic doesn't work when there's so many evenly matched teams. 


    Since I can't think of any other phrase for it, in the e8, it's simply "Any Given Sunday"  (or other day of the week that ends in Y when 2 e8 teams are playing each other.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3lifer on November 22, 2008, 01:18:51 PM
    New to the boards but have been a fan of the Empire 8 for long time, that was a good correction on the question between the two York College's however it would be noted that it couldn't have been a terrible win for the Wick with a York team that won 22 games last year with majority if not all players back.

    Some interesting games last year with the start of the season underway it would appear that the bombers are only interested in trying to separate themselves from the pack in the league as they have done nothing but win impressively through their opening few games.

    Anything can happen as Dick Vitale mentioned during the 2ksports classic during his broadcast of the Duke-Michigan game with Michigan knocking off UCLA, "November basketball is very unpredictable where teams are not always in the same stages of their progression."

    With that being said November is a great time of year with College Basketball kicking off and College Football becoming that more interesting as teams look to finalize their possible bowl positions.

    Good luck to all teams in the Empire 8 this year should be a good one!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on November 22, 2008, 04:38:38 PM
    UC takes care of business with a win over SUNY-IT, 74-67 to win their tip off tournament.

    James Patterson with 17 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists.

    Pat Goodman with 12 points and 7 boards.

    Bobby Whyte scored 10 points and had 6 rebounds.

    Justin Maxwell contributed 12 points.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 08:40:48 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on November 22, 2008, 11:46:20 AM
    Ehhh, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on that bandwagon gobombers.

    I too think Ithaca will finish ahead of Utica at the end of the season, but as I remember correctly Ithaca lost to Potsdam St. to start last season 93-82 and Utica beat Potsdam State later 74-67.  If there is 1 thing the empire 8 has shown over the years, it's that the "we beat x, who beat y, so we're better than y" logic doesn't work when there's so many evenly matched teams. 


    Since I can't think of any other phrase for it, in the e8, it's simply "Any Given Sunday"  (or other day of the week that ends in Y when 2 e8 teams are playing each other.

    For one, Bostic didn't play that game last year if I recall. Secondly, I agree, generally that logic is bogus. That said, when one team wins on the road by 25 and the other team loses at home, that does say something. Plus, Ithaca was considered the favorite and that game supports that theory.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 08:42:04 PM
    Bombers lead host UR at the half, 45-39. Sounds like a fun game to be attending.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 22, 2008, 08:45:49 PM
    The U of R starts out shooting and playing very well. However, playing at Ithaca's pace catches up with them. Ithaca was down by as many as 7 but Rogers hit 3 consecutive threes and Bostic picked up his game to end the first half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:34:10 PM
    Bombers are going to beat host UR in the final of the Resler Tourney. Chris Cruz hits four big 3's in the 2nd half.

    Final: Ithaca wins, 81-72. HUGE win for the good guys. Should start receiving votes soon, I'd think.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 22, 2008, 09:37:36 PM
    Ithaca got cold a few times in the second half but kept Rochester at bay. Two nice dunks from Bostic and some nice shooting from Cruz. Once again an overall team effort from the Bombers. Four games so far and four games with at least 80 points.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3lifer on November 22, 2008, 10:05:41 PM
    This has to be at the top or near the top of the most talented teams that Ithaca has put on the floor in school history they are physical, athletic, have depth, and can put points on the board from multiple positions. Another impressive win for the bombers.

    The years of challenging non conference schedule is going to pay off for them this year particularly because they have put them in the win column.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on November 22, 2008, 10:14:33 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 08:40:48 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on November 22, 2008, 11:46:20 AM
    Ehhh, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on that bandwagon gobombers.

    I too think Ithaca will finish ahead of Utica at the end of the season, but as I remember correctly Ithaca lost to Potsdam St. to start last season 93-82 and Utica beat Potsdam State later 74-67.  If there is 1 thing the empire 8 has shown over the years, it's that the "we beat x, who beat y, so we're better than y" logic doesn't work when there's so many evenly matched teams. 


    Since I can't think of any other phrase for it, in the e8, it's simply "Any Given Sunday"  (or other day of the week that ends in Y when 2 e8 teams are playing each other.

    For one, Bostic didn't play that game last year if I recall. Secondly, I agree, generally that logic is bogus. That said, when one team wins on the road by 25 and the other team loses at home, that does say something. Plus, Ithaca was considered the favorite and that game supports that theory.

    Yeah, it says that one team matches up against other teams differently. Cortland is not a good match up for UC. They killed them last year. The close game after being down 16 and being only down 3 with 31 seconds left was a good effort.

    UC is very talented, but is learning all new plays and philosophy. It is like having a talented group of Freshmen out there as they are all learning a new system. They will make their biggest splash later in the season. Hamilton is a huge game going into the break.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 22, 2008, 11:02:42 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:34:10 PM
    Bombers are going to beat host UR in the final of the Resler Tourney. Chris Cruz hits four big 3's in the 2nd half.

    Final: Ithaca wins, 81-72. HUGE win for the good guys. Should start receiving votes soon, I'd think.

    That's a nice consolation prize after the colossal embarrassment at Butterfield today.  Basketball season is "officially" beginning about 2 weeks earlier than I thought it would but it's time for every IC fan to get on board this bandwagon.  We've been waiting a long time for the Bombers to be legitimate in basketball and hopefully that time is now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3hero on November 23, 2008, 12:54:42 AM
    Hartwick showed it's true colors and lost to the new star of the Skyline, SUNY Purchase, by 13 points in the New Paltz tournament final.

    D1 transfer Jerrell Lewis scored 22 and D2 transfer Marvin Billups put up 29. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 23, 2008, 01:35:11 AM
    Congrats....you beat a team picked to finish in the bottom 3 of the conference for the ___ straight year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3hero on November 23, 2008, 01:38:47 AM
    Maybe that's Hartwick's coach's fault, no?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 23, 2008, 03:43:30 PM
    Got  a chance to go see the Ducks again this afternoon.  They gutted out a hard fought 66-62 game against Kean University.  Kean came into the game 2-1, having beat Division 2 Clarion.  They're a pretty athletic team, though a bit out of control.  A typical NJAC team for those who know the area.  Overall nice win against easily their best opponent so far.  Here's some thoughts:

    Positives:
    Ducks were led by Virgil Gray (obvious statement?)  28 points, 4-9 from 3, including a clutch 3 pointer with a minute left and the Ducks down 3.  Also went 10-14 from the free throw line.  The kid is a player.  Like I said in earlier posts, he's going to be battling Burton and Herring all season for E8 player of the year.

    Passalacqua also went 4-9 from 3, coming away with 14 points.  He was the story in the first half while Gray started off slow shooting.

    For all the talk of Greco leaving and the youth at point guard, Michael Baker continues to impress at the position.  9 points and 9 assists today.  Also came up with the game winning layup after getting an offensive rebound on a Passalacqua miss.  Games will be close when he's in foul trouble (4 fouls today), but I don't think the Ducks have much worry at the position when he's on the court.

    Negatives:
    I'm sorry to sound like a broken record recapping this team, but they got beat on the boards 41-27 to a team who's tallest player is a GENEROUS 6'4".  There simple isn't enough inside game for the Ducks to handle a Bostic or Carson or whoever else is thrown at them down low.  So on nights when they don't shoot 43% from behind the arc (like they did today), they are going to be in trouble.

    Team isn't very deep.  If you look, they play a lot of guys, but that's because they are rotating about 6 players between the power forward/center positions.  Only 1 guard played off the bench today, and that was the kid Sanchez (and he only played 9 minutes).  39 minutes from Gray, 34 from Baker, 30 from Passalacqua. 

    15-26.  58%.  The free throw shooting woes of last year continue for the Ducks.  Needless to say, we saw this bite them last year, and it could happen again.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 24, 2008, 07:57:51 AM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 22, 2008, 11:02:42 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:34:10 PM
    Bombers are going to beat host UR in the final of the Resler Tourney. Chris Cruz hits four big 3's in the 2nd half.

    Final: Ithaca wins, 81-72. HUGE win for the good guys. Should start receiving votes soon, I'd think.

    That's a nice consolation prize after the colossal embarrassment at Butterfield today.  Basketball season is "officially" beginning about 2 weeks earlier than I thought it would but it's time for every IC fan to get on board this bandwagon.  We've been waiting a long time for the Bombers to be legitimate in basketball and hopefully that time is now.

    Bombers got a "bandwagon" now? The AU Pep Bandwagon, for those of you perhaps unfamiliar with the E8 football Post Patterns, is a 1992 Grand Caravan that, after a Saterday trip to Troy, now is over 308,000 miles. And, with AU men's hoops off to a surprising 3-1 start, it's looking like the pep band may be playing some basketball games this season at McLane. Pep promised first-year Coach Dale Wellman that if his Saxons get FIVE wins this season, the band will appear at their very next home game. Heck, Kaz00 may even reorganize Ye Olde Saxon Sillies....there could be some fun at McLane Center again!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 24, 2008, 10:42:11 AM
    you got me Pep, the Bomber Bandwagon is, naturally, an airplane.  Hope the PepBandWagon made it through that long cold drive OK!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 24, 2008, 11:13:01 AM
    The Bandwagon heat wasn't what it should have been early Saterday morning, so Pep thought to check the level in the radiator, which had experienced some leakage before last oil change.... Pep topped it off with a gallon of antifreeze and the bandwagon--now nicknamed Tweety by some--purred like a kitten and kept the brave bundled-up band blazing.

    En route back to said bandwagon, our veteran tuba player, now an alum, quipped that "We should start a fire in the bandwagon...after all, it wouldn't hurt the resale value any." Pep hopes he didn't get frostbite hitchin' back from Troy.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 24, 2008, 11:46:03 AM
    First off, I am not thrilled with RIT's start. That first game was horrible. We need to shoot the ball, to make Carson better. Yes he had a giant 2nd game but he needs help... I can't help it I am not happy about the future here. In fairness I haven't seen them, that's my fault, but they have to show something soon, OR Hartwick will finish ahead of them, and maybe Alfred... ( just trying to fire them up ;D) Ithaca is is great :(, although it kills me, they should crack the top 25 by league play... )good for the conference. Utica looks like they will show up some nights and not some other nights, what else is new. I don't have enough on Naz yet... I have been busy. Fisher looks like they are going young, and looking to better days... BUT they are still dangerous on any night... Stevens..... I did not see the Kean Game... My work associates did. Here's their read. Grey is lights out... He hit 4 3's??? look at last years 3 point % for him...about 18%  He is not a 3 point shooter, and they needed that. Bomber you kind of went two ways in your analysis.  On one hand you said they don't miss Greco with Baker at the point, then you mention how he had to play 32 minutes or so since there really is no replacement. Then you mention the problem rebounding, that is exactly correct, they are hurting.... If Baker were at the forward spot with Grey and Higgans they would step up in rebounding as well. Baker is strong and has ups... So yes they do miss Greco and it could hurt them down the road... .. However that being said, I am only echoing my friends... They are Duck backers and I DID NOT SEE THE GAME so I want to be fair. They can't go through the season with 4 guys playing 30+ minutes each night. They mentioned Baker had 9 assists and almost all on 3 point shots... sounds like a pass against a zone.... Not taking anything away, but not exactly McAdamsesque. It looks like Ithaca should walk through. Hartwick and Alfred may surprise someone or two along the way. Big Log jam for 2, 3, 4 spots in conference... That makes it fun..... C'mon RIT let's get it going.... PLEASE.. ;)     




         
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on November 24, 2008, 01:12:09 PM
    FROMAFAR -- Just so everyone knows what you mean by monster game... Carson had 28 points and 23 rebounds. 

    I have no idea what Thomas College is or if they feature a starting five of cast members from "Little People, Big World", but wow, nice game. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 24, 2008, 01:28:08 PM
    Bamm, I don't know what they had either, as I said in fairness I didn't see the game, but 28 pts. 23 rebounds is impressive even when working out alone in the gym...We can't depend on that or anything close each night. The e-8 is too good and too smart not make someone else beat you... Who is that going to be? Someone or two have to step up....I think mentally we are tough, but we need to have that outside threat and play some hard D without fouling. We were horrible in our first game committing fouls......I just want Carson to go out with a few big wins...... he's too good to go down in flames....what do I Know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 24, 2008, 03:12:58 PM
    Quote from: bamm on November 24, 2008, 01:12:09 PM
    FROMAFAR -- Just so everyone knows what you mean by monster game... Carson had 28 points and 23 rebounds. 

    I have no idea what Thomas College is or if they feature a starting five of cast members from "Little People, Big World", but wow, nice game. 

    Bamm, did you get an opportunity to get over to The Palestra for the UR/Ithaca final? BTW, the lady and I were at the Eagles/Ravens game yesterday. Ugly.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on November 25, 2008, 07:49:02 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on November 24, 2008, 03:12:58 PM
    Bamm, did you get an opportunity to get over to The Palestra for the UR/Ithaca final? BTW, the lady and I were at the Eagles/Ravens game yesterday. Ugly.

    I didn't make it to that game, though I wish I did.  OU/Texas Tech didn't quite live up to the hype. 

    Your lady actually sent me a picture message from your vantage point in the stadium.  I haven't responded to her yet because, at this point, I'm unable to even be a little humorous about the Eagles season.

    Title: RIT
    Post by: RITFAN on November 25, 2008, 08:50:16 PM
    RIT has a young team, there were 4 freshman on the court at times over the weekend.  The freshman look talented, but they are freshman.  They will need to consistently contribute if RIT is going to make the E-8 playoffs.

    We shall see.  It may be an exciting team.  Carson looks in great shape, Thomas had no answer for him.  He was in foul trouble the first game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 25, 2008, 10:33:19 PM
    Was anyone at the Fisher game tonight? From what I can tell it looks like a good win for a young team early in the season. Any time you beat Brockport it is a good win, but I don't know what they have this year. I am happy to see some Freshman playing significant minutes, and playing well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 25, 2008, 10:54:17 PM
    This may have already been covered on this board, but I noticed that Baltz was not in the box score again tonight, and I no longer see his name on the website for the roster. Did something happen where he is off the team, or hurt?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 25, 2008, 11:19:33 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 25, 2008, 10:54:17 PM
    This may have already been covered on this board, but I noticed that Baltz was not in the box score again tonight, and I no longer see his name on the website for the roster. Did something happen where he is off the team, or hurt?

    Check page 387. Discussion about Baltz. Apparently he quit the team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 26, 2008, 07:48:46 AM
    RIT FAN welcome aboard..... I am an ALUMN, but superstitious about talking about them...... Need you to carry the ball.....(that would be a turn-over) ;D, ok dribble it then......  I have not actually seen them yet. Heard Carson does look stronger... Too bad he's a senior, because once the freshman get seasoned, he's gone, and then we need to season a big.......  Coaching is tough.....  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 26, 2008, 12:15:29 PM
    Great win for Fisher over Bport the other night.  Maybe they won't be so bad after all, they are going extremely small and will cause some matchup problems.  Looks like BPort only has 3 good players in Parrish, Harris, and Wilkes.  Still with those 3 Bport would be in top 4 of E8.  Look as if the entire region is down this year versus the past.  Naz looks to have lost a few players either due to quiting, dropping out, or injuries but they onl have 3 good players in Dehimer  and the 2 McAdams.  That being said looks like Fisher has a shot at getting in top 4 in the league this year with no dominate teams besides Ithaca.  Ithaca is finally old have a big 3 and good role players.  I think they are the strongest team (too early to tell fully if any suny schools are going to be really godo this year) in the region excluding NYU.  UofR is way down this year due to all of their losses.  looks to be a lot of parity in the region this year so should make for a somewhat interesting year, however, I dont see a lot of damange being done in the NCAA.  I think Ithaca will have the best shot and will advance past 2nd round to the sweet 16 but doesnt have the tournament experience to advance further than that unless they get paired with another team from upstate NY.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 26, 2008, 12:42:19 PM
    Fisher D... while you make a lot of sense, and I agree Ithaca should be basically unbeatable, be careful putting them not only in the NCAA but to the sweet 16. Remember they don't like taking more than 1 from the E-8. That means they have to win the tourney. That in itself is not easy. They should BUT we know how that works. If they can win 22 games then losing the tourney may not matter......... Just a caution flag!!! :)  I have no doubt Korniker will have Fisher ready for league play one way or the other....always does and will sneak in... Who did NAZ lose, haven't been on that site lately...... If your right this will be real interesting. Utica, Fisher, Stevens, Naz, RIT, maybe Hartwick all fighting for 3 spots....The team that wins on the road will be in good shape........  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 26, 2008, 01:21:21 PM
    No I agree, its just a projection. I think they will win enough games to get an automatic bid though even if they get upset in the e8 tourny.  They should break top 25 ranking once or twice throughout the season and should get enough wins for an auto bid.  The rest of the region is bad enough it will make it even easier to get an auto bid this year.  they lost an athletic guard that started as a freshmen and pizzelli a solid bing man to injury last year and is not on the team this year.   I think Utica, Stevens, Fisher, Naz, and RIT and Hartwick will be all fighting for the other 3 spots and will knock each other off throughout the year.  I think Ithaca will go down once or twice in league play as well.  I think they are good but not unbelievable.  I think Stevens will do well, Fisher will find a way, Naz and Utica will be tough, I think RIT is too young and Hartwick, well i think they will be solid and win a lot of home games but may still not be there yet.  Naz in reality still should be the 2nd best team they just have the worst coach and dont play defense.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 26, 2008, 01:36:54 PM
    TO ALL MY POST BUDDIES, HAVE A GREAT THANKSGIVING, THANKS FOR KEEPING ME WELL ADVISED ON THE E-8, AND LISTENING TO MY CHATTER...MAKES IT FUN.........  PROBABLY OFF THE AIR UNTIL NEXT WEEK......  ENJOY ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on November 26, 2008, 02:12:15 PM
    Fisher isn't so great this year, must be a down year for the region!  Ugh.

    Ithaca and Naz are both really talented.  How good they can be we don't know, but that Bombers squad really could be quite good. 

    Hamilton, Oswego, and Geneseo all look quite solid. 

    A change at the top doesn't mean the top got worse.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 26, 2008, 02:50:28 PM
    Quietly the boys down in Hoboken continue to dominate "quality"  (I mean that loosely...as in awful) Atlantic Region competition.  24 point win over FDU-Florham last night.  I often wonder why they left the region when they could be guaranteed a tourney spot given how much better they've gotten and how far the NJAC has fallen off. 

    Then again, their men's soccer team moved to the Empire 8 and is now playing in the Final Four this weekend.  Guess that's good for the E8!


    Gray with 22 again last night.  Any knowledge on if he's going to end up being the school's all-time leading scorer?  The way he's played the past 2 years, I figured he'd have to be close considering Stevens used to be bad.


    Early season I'd have to put Ithaca #1 in the conference, and Stevens at #2.  Anyone else agree/disagree?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 26, 2008, 03:16:07 PM
    change at the top doesnt necessarily mean down year for region but the top teams usually have the best teams and it takes that caliber to go far in ncaa.  Not sayin other schools don't have it but just dont see a lot of very strong teams yet.  Most teams have losses already.  Naz is 0-2? against nothing great, looking at the box score they only have 3 contributors, seems to be another above average but  not great year coming ahead for them.  UofR is very down, bport has 2 losses, plattsburgh lost a lot.  I think geneseo, oswego and hamilton could all be good like i said cant fully tell if theres any ringers out of SUNYAC yet.  that being said still down in general last few years there have been 3-6 teams hitting top 25 throughout the region this year im not sure if htere will be more than 2 if there is 2. 


    Cyclone have to agree so far with youer #1 and #2 early season rankings.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on November 26, 2008, 03:18:50 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 26, 2008, 12:15:29 PM
    Great win for Fisher over Bport the other night.  Maybe they won't be so bad after all, they are going extremely small and will cause some matchup problems.  Looks like BPort only has 3 good players in Parrish, Harris, and Wilkes.  Still with those 3 Bport would be in top 4 of E8.  Look as if the entire region is down this year versus the past.  Naz looks to have lost a few players either due to quiting, dropping out, or injuries but they onl have 3 good players in Dehimer  and the 2 McAdams.  That being said looks like Fisher has a shot at getting in top 4 in the league this year with no dominate teams besides Ithaca.  Ithaca is finally old have a big 3 and good role players.  I think they are the strongest team (too early to tell fully if any suny schools are going to be really godo this year) in the region excluding NYU.  UofR is way down this year due to all of their losses.  looks to be a lot of parity in the region this year so should make for a somewhat interesting year, however, I dont see a lot of damange being done in the NCAA.  I think Ithaca will have the best shot and will advance past 2nd round to the sweet 16 but doesnt have the tournament experience to advance further than that unless they get paired with another team from upstate NY.

    It's true UofR lost a lot in the offseason, but they always seem to reload, not rebuild. And they are 2-1 right now, with the loss coming at the hands of Ithaca in the Yellowjackets tourney championship by nine points. They also rolled over Naz last night, beating them by 17, courtesy of a 12-point edge in the second half. Of course, Naz is 0-3, but the 9-point loss to IC could say something, especially if the Bombers are the favorite to win the E8.

    BTW, thought Naz would get a lift from AU's lone standout last year, Ellis Walsh, but saw he scored five points and grabbed seven rebounds in 17 minutes against UofR last night, also committing five fouls. The five he scored last night were his first five of the season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 26, 2008, 03:26:58 PM
    We'll see how UofR does in their conference compared to normal.  I bet they dont get in the top 3.  Naz is typical Naz and going to be worse than last years team with the loss of canori, tyler smith, bizelli and rajon. I think Ithaca is good and would be be able to give a typical UofR team a good game if not be able to knock them off.  I think this is Ithaca's year as ive been saying for the past 2 years when they were younger.  There is no way UofR is close to what they were in past years though with their losses.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on November 26, 2008, 04:40:29 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 26, 2008, 03:26:58 PM
    We'll see how UofR does in their conference compared to normal.  I bet they dont get in the top 3.  Naz is typical Naz and going to be worse than last years team with the loss of canori, tyler smith, bizelli and rajon. I think Ithaca is good and would be be able to give a typical UofR team a good game if not be able to knock them off.  I think this is Ithaca's year as ive been saying for the past 2 years when they were younger.  There is no way UofR is close to what they were in past years though with their losses.

    I know UofR is down, my response was in reference to the comment about them being way down. When I think of way down, I think of below .500, and they definitely won't be in that territory. They definitely lost some firepower, and if their team of last year had played this year's Ithaca team, it wouldn't have been a nine-point win for the Bombers. I do still think, though, that the Yellowjackets will be the best team in Rochester, even if it's not up to their usual standards of the past few years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on November 26, 2008, 04:53:17 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 26, 2008, 03:16:07 PM
    change at the top doesnt necessarily mean down year for region but the top teams usually have the best teams and it takes that caliber to go far in ncaa.  Not sayin other schools don't have it but just dont see a lot of very strong teams yet.  Most teams have losses already.  Naz is 0-2? against nothing great, looking at the box score they only have 3 contributors, seems to be another above average but  not great year coming ahead for them.  UofR is very down, bport has 2 losses, plattsburgh lost a lot.  I think geneseo, oswego and hamilton could all be good like i said cant fully tell if theres any ringers out of SUNYAC yet.  that being said still down in general last few years there have been 3-6 teams hitting top 25 throughout the region this year im not sure if htere will be more than 2 if there is 2. 


    Cyclone have to agree so far with youer #1 and #2 early season rankings.

    Wow...Now Naz is 0-3 despite all the local coverage from the D & C as the area team to beat. I actually checked out St Mary's website to see how they were and they reached the Sweet 16 last season and the other team Naz lost to also went to NCAA's. Not sure how much firepower they lost but looks like Naz didnt play teams that were "nothing great."

    Also, Bport loses to Fisher? Big games from Ozell & Newman from looking at the box score. I also noticed their other big Dan Evans was not in the box score - anything up there? Bport lacks the depth the used to have and Sherrod Harris used to make them go...

    Should be an interesting year. Everyone have a nice Thanksgiving Holiday!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 26, 2008, 05:56:50 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on November 26, 2008, 03:26:58 PM
    We'll see how UofR does in their conference compared to normal.  I bet they dont get in the top 3.  Naz is typical Naz and going to be worse than last years team with the loss of canori, tyler smith, bizelli and rajon. I think Ithaca is good and would be be able to give a typical UofR team a good game if not be able to knock them off.  I think this is Ithaca's year as ive been saying for the past 2 years when they were younger.  There is no way UofR is close to what they were in past years though with their losses.

    I don't think they were top 3 last year with their seniors.  This team is very young and is going to be pretty teriffic before too long.  And if you look at the box score from the Ithaca game you'll notice that statistically it was a very even game.  This year Ithaca benefits from having that senior leadership and experience and you should all enjoy it.  As for giving UR a good game or beating them, this years Ithaca team wouldn't come within 20 points of last years UR team, IMO.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: owen on November 26, 2008, 06:51:50 PM
    Am I the only one that noticed? Elmira beat Cortland last night. Not in hockey but in basketball, men's basketball!!! I thought it must be a typo so double checked it. It seems to be true.

    Has the world gone mad? Nothing makes sense anymore.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3lifer on November 26, 2008, 10:24:56 PM
    Hartwick College picks up its fourth win this season improving to 4-1 in the early season with an 80-76 win over Vasser College on the road. Cocozziello gets 28 points and 8 rebounds while the freshman point guard Blazek gets 14. A pretty good week all in all for the Empire 8 conference.

    Note: Hartwick beat Keuka college last night 74-55.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on November 27, 2008, 03:54:16 AM
    In mentioning teams from the region who have the potential to crack the "top 25" I think St Lawrence should be included. They beat a pretty good Middlebury team last night by double digits. Liberty league apparently had a pretty good night (see the Magicman's post).  Hamilton will always be tough, and Clarkson sneaks out a 1 point win over Plattsburgh but neither team played really strong.  Good close game though. Ithaca may appear to be the strongest but Hamilton & SLU and maybe even the Potsdam Bears (senior laden and looked good in win over Clarkson) could challenge the top 25.  Do not think UofR will this season, (they will have too many league losses though they still may well be 1 of the best teams in this area) challenge top 25.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 27, 2008, 07:25:02 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on November 27, 2008, 03:54:16 AM
    In mentioning teams from the region who have the potential to crack the "top 25" I think St Lawrence should be included. They beat a pretty good Middlebury team last night by double digits. Liberty league apparently had a pretty good night (see the Magicman's post).  Hamilton will always be tough, and Clarkson sneaks out a 1 point win over Plattsburgh but neither team played really strong.  Good close game though. Ithaca may appear to be the strongest but Hamilton & SLU and maybe even the Potsdam Bears (senior laden and looked good in win over Clarkson) could challenge the top 25.  Do not think UofR will this season, (they will have too many league losses though they still may well be 1 of the best teams in this area) challenge top 25.

    UAA is having an odd year so far.  Chicago is 0-4 and Brandeis is 0-3, which for a pre-season #9 is not so good.  I agree that UR will not likely crack the Top 25 this year.  I think they may be too young to play with the consistent intensity needed once the conference season starts.  But they are a talented group of youngsters and are going to win some games on ability alone.

    As for SLU and Middlebury, I thought I read on the NESCAC page that tMiddlebury was without their leading player for the game.  Not to take anything from SLU, cuz it's still a solid win for them
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 28, 2008, 10:32:01 PM
    Quote from: owen on November 26, 2008, 06:51:50 PM
    Am I the only one that noticed? Elmira beat Cortland last night. Not in hockey but in basketball, men's basketball!!! I thought it must be a typo so double checked it. It seems to be true.

    Has the world gone mad? Nothing makes sense anymore.

    I did see that. Seems Hartwick and Elmira may be competitive this year. And how about Cortland? A lot of people had them pegged as the top team in the SUNYAC. Not looking that way right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on November 29, 2008, 05:57:43 PM
    Cortland has size in the middle in Oliver and Lewis, shooting & athleticism on the wings with Coston & Neihoff.  You can be sure that Span is working OT to find an answer at the point.  Dragons should be in contention come second semester.

    They have a tough road game at Oneonta Tuesday, then close out 1st semester conference play hosting Morrisville.

    I would say Geneseo is the favorite at this point, although there is a large group of contenders at this point.

    Key games this week:
    Tuesday Oswego @ Geneseo

    Friday
    Brockport @ Plattsburgh
    Geneseo @ Potsdam

    Saturday
    Geneseo @ Plattsburgh
    Brockport @ Potsdam
    Fredonia @ Oneonta
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 29, 2008, 10:51:03 PM
    Bombers roll up on Baldwin-Wallace in the semis of the Allegheny Tourney, 97-75. Sean Burton with a monster game: 29 pts, 9 assts, 8 rebs. Bostic with 8 pts and 12 rebs. Four others in double figures for Ithaca; Rogers (17), Leahy (13), Marcus (11) and Cruz (10).  Ithaca will play host Allegheny in the final following their 58-54 victory over Hilbert.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 30, 2008, 06:50:19 PM
    Bombers rip host Allegheny in the final of Allegheny's Tourney, 85-63. Bostic leads the way this time, posting 19 pts and 22 rebs. Burton has another solid night with 23 pts and 5 assts. Also in double figures were Cruz (13) and Leahy (13). Allegheny came out strong and the score was tied at 34 going into the locker room. Ithaca pulls away with a 26-8 run in the first six minutes of the 2nd half and never looked back. Ithaca is now 6-0.

    Other E8 news:

    -Elmira lost at Rochester on Friday night, 76-58. Elmira was with 8 points, 51-43, with 12 minutes to go before UR opened it up.

    -Elmira took care of Skidmore today, 86-70, in the consolation game of the Rochester Tourney.

    -Stevens loses to Baruch for the second straight year, 75-68. Virgil Gray held to 11 pts for the host Ducks.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2008, 07:42:56 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on November 30, 2008, 06:50:19 PM
    Bombers rip host Allegheny in the final of Allegheny's Tourney, 85-63. Bostic leads the way this time, posting 19 pts and 22 rebs. Burton has another solid night with 23 pts and 5 assts. Also in double figures were Cruz (13) and Leahy (13). Allegheny came out strong and the score was tied at 34 going into the locker room. Ithaca pulls away with a 26-8 run in the first six minutes of the 2nd half and never looked back. Ithaca is now 6-0.

    Other E8 news:

    -Elmira lost at Rochester on Friday night, 76-58. Elmira was with 8 points, 51-43, with 12 minutes to go before UR opened it up.
    -Elmira took care of Skidmore today, 86-70, in the consolation game of the Rochester Tourney.

    -Stevens loses to Baruch for the second straight year, 75-68. Virgil Gray held to 11 pts for the host Ducks.



    "re-opened" would be a little more accurate.  UR jumped out to a 12-0 lead and led by 11-15 points except for a run that dropped it to 8 with 11 minutes left.

    This is the first time I have seen Elmira play.  From reading this board and, frankly, just reading their stats over the last few years, I got the impression that it wasn't much of a program.  But, I think they may have turned a corner.  They were aggressive, vocal, supportive and intense for the entire game.  May be a function of a new coach/system or maybe it's no different.  In any event I was impressed with their hustle.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 01, 2008, 11:33:48 AM
    Well, it finally happened.  I've been on here saying any team with an inside game will force them to rely on too many 3's and find a way to down the Ducks, and Baruch outrebounded 5-36.  Subsequently, Stevens shot 3-20 from 3, and Gray was off his game.


    Outrebound + Stop Gray + Force to shoot 3's = Beat Stevens 10 out of 10 times.


    On a side note, anyone else find it funny that Stevens got beat by a "Farid".  Tameer Farid, younger brother of Stevens standout Waleed Farid, dropped 23 yesterday and beat the Ducks for the 2nd year in a row.  Guess now Stevens joins the rest of the Empire 8 as teams that have lost at the hands of Farid.


    *And yes, the younger Farid is actually the better of the two.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 01, 2008, 12:14:29 PM
    Cyclone, you posted while I was posting. I was at the game yesterday, came back down to city early. My associates ( Stevens Alumn) were dissapointed to say the least. If you were there did you notice they don't seem to have a personality, or intensity. It appeared they thought they could turn it on whenever they wanted..Your right they don't rebound well.. That's why I think Baker needs to be around the basket more. Hey he had 9 rebounds froma guard position ( although moved forward at times ). Also, Passalaqua needs to go the hole more, if he doesn't it becomes easy to stop him. Gray should not be shooting 3's. Yes he hit 4 in a game earlier, BUT that's not his strong suit. higgins is tough and not shy, but again can't consistently be a 15 point scorer. I truly believe they have flaws, as you do...They need a jolt.  ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 01, 2008, 12:18:00 PM
    Hey cycloen, I read my post and it states you have flaws ;D I meant I believe Stevens has Flaws AS YOU BELIEVE TOO....As the kids say my bad :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 01, 2008, 12:22:22 PM
    I wonder how close Ithaca will get to the Top 25 in the next d3hoops.com poll.  Will the 6-0 mark impress voters a lot or will the fact that they're from what has been a run-of-the-mill if not outright subpar region in the playoffs work against them.

    People say UR is down this year - but are the routs of Baldwin-Wallace and Allegheny impressive on a national level?  The Great Lakes region and those OAC and NCAC conferences produce some great teams from time to time.

    I'm not campaigning for votes here, just trying to get inside the thought process.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 01, 2008, 12:35:27 PM
    Caz, they should either get in or come very close, soon. I'm not sure of the criteria, but they are winning convincingly and they really don't have any noticeable flaws. The conference doesn't look like it will present any problems, although they could trip once, but I doubt it... I don't like coronating anyone this early but if they don't end up in the top 25 come Tourney time, I will be shocked... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on December 01, 2008, 06:35:50 PM
    Noticed that the d-3 home page did report their victory way down at the end of the article.  But any press on this site is good press.  I would be shocked the way numerous teams are losing in the top 25 if they do not crack it or at least get very close.  I agree that based on early results they are VERY DESERVING!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on December 01, 2008, 08:57:12 PM
    Just returned from McLane Center where the RIT Tigers clawed their way to a 56-52 win over the Alfred Saxons in a rare E8 fall semester meeting.

    Alfred is at a distinct height disadvantage what with Smithgall sitting with a broken foot and Carl Embury, at about 6-4, the tallest remaining Saxon on the floor. Nevertheless, Coach Dale Wellman has this team at 3-3 and could surprise some folks.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 02, 2008, 07:12:51 AM
    Here we go again.... RIT shoots 48% from the field, Carson is 10-13 that's why. 23% from 3 pt. land, ouch, 21 turnovers, ouch. Kornicker 1 asist 5 turn overs, ouch. Alfred only shoots 4 foul shots, and they lose by 4.... I believe it's a combimnnation, Alfred is not an easy out, and my boys are not that good!!!!!

    Ithaca got some votes... E-8 has to really out-do themselves to get respect... Next week they will be in, watch. ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 02, 2008, 01:13:52 PM
    I dont think the wins vs Baldwin Wallace and Alleghany will be overally impressive on a national level, however, are better than winning the in reginon games against upstate NY schools.  Alleghany is not a very strong program and would be below par in any of the big 3 upstate conferences.  Baldwin is a good program but lost there all american player that was a horse and some other players.  That being said Ithaca is 6-0 and winning amounts that top 25 teams win by.  They should crack the top 25 very soon in my opinion and i think will be getting votes and in the top 25 throughout the course of the season until the ncaa.  I would think unless they start losing to make me think otherwise they could be anyway from the 13-25 at their peak.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 02, 2008, 01:15:04 PM
    FROMAFAR -


    I would say that has been Stevens problem not this year, but for at least the past 3.  Even the NCAA tournament team was always a turn it on/turn it off sort of team.  That's why they had games where they beat you defensively 50-46, and the next night won 95-92.  They just thought they had enough talent to turn it on and win whichever way they needed to.  And they went to the Sweet 16, so I guess they did.


    Last years team was more intense, but still played to the level of the competition (or what they perceived was the level of competition) WAY too much.  But still, they had a ton of talent so they won games.


    This year the talent isn't quite there, and so you'll see this up/down intensity cost them in games.


    As for Passalacqua, if he's shot more than 10 shots inside the 3 point arc since he got to Stevens, I'd be stunned.  (exaggeration, but you get the point.)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 02, 2008, 02:03:18 PM
    You know cyclone the games I have seen, about 6 two years ago, a dozen last year, and 3 this year... you sound about right. I thought the sweet 16 team got more intense as the year went on. They began to believe in themselves. I think Higgins and Greco who were freshman brought a toughness, Stevens lacked. Last year I truly believe Waleed slowed the team down. He was great rebounder, for his size, but the ball went to him every possession and then slowed down. I thought this year they would be more up tempo, which appears they are trying, BUT Baker should not be at the point. They have no choice now, losing Greco.... ( my Stevens connection seem to think he may be back.. ???) Baker would be much more valuable around the hoop, and they need that energy and saunter Greco brings... They have nothing off the bench except maybe Smith. 
    And OH yea Passalaqua is a "horse player" mark up and shoot. He does that well, but nothing else. This team is not deep, and no intensity, or leadership on the floor.  I loved watching this team the last two years but there is just something missing.  The Ithaca boys are fun to watch, and althhough a few of thier wins are against easy competition, you can't hold that against them, when thy win easily...All the top 25 teams play some easy games...  I say they will be in the top 25 by January and never look back. BUT what do I know. ;)

         
    Title: RIT
    Post by: RITFAN on December 02, 2008, 02:14:54 PM
    I read the stat sheet in the same way fromafar does.  However, this is a young team and a win is a win.  The freshman are looking for what will work for them at this level, and it might take them a while to figure it out

    My hope is that thay gain confidence as the season progresses, get into the tourny, and make some noise then.

    Tomorrow's game at U of R will be interesting.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 02, 2008, 02:19:30 PM
    FROMAFAR -


    What's missing is a certain toughness factor?  If you look at the 06-07 team, they had players like Morris, Collins, and Farid..along with newcomers Greco and Higgins..that were just tough kids.  Morris provided a senior leadership at point guard, not to mention a stability as a 4 year starter.  Likewise, Collins gave them a presence down low and a certain grit about them.

    That team also had more flexibility, at times using both Morris and Greco in the backcourt to harrass opposing guards, or sliding Farid down to the 3 and going with Collins and Higgins at the front spots.  


    This years team, unlike the past two years, is essentially a 1 person team.  They will only go as far as Gray goes.  The two years prior you weren't quite sure who was going to beat you, even though you knew Farid and Gray were "the guy".  



    As for Ithaca, I always try to avoid annointing teams this early in the season, but they are definitely going to be a Top 25 team.  All the things I talk about from the Stevens 06-07 team, or more recently the William Paterson team from last year,  I see in this years Ithaca team.  That being said, I still don't think they will runaway with the conference, just because I think the Empire 8 always provides tough in conference tests, particularly in road games.  I must say I can't wait for January though, when conference play starts.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 02, 2008, 10:01:25 PM
    Ithaca Bombers did receive votes today in the top 25 poll.  Ranked 30th in the nation right now with their 6-0 record.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 03, 2008, 07:52:59 AM
    Cyclone, your on the $ with your analysis. I don't like annointing either and the E 8 presents problems on the road... I don't see them losing more than maybe twice... Fisher is a tough gym, they seem to own the refs, the second loss  ??? ??? ??? I just don't see it. There are no other dominant teams in the conference. I think anyone can beat anyone out of the other 8 teams... Yea I know Alfred and Elmira shouldn't BUT they seem to have some energy with new coaches, and Hartwick seems to believe a little bit. Utica looks inconsistent, Naz and Stevens both not deep...( your right about Gray being the only option) RIT.... I hope RITFAN is right ;D, Fisher will win when they shouldn't and lose when they shouldn't.  It's goping to be a roller coaster ride for sure ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 03, 2008, 08:02:07 AM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on December 02, 2008, 10:01:25 PM
    Ithaca Bombers did receive votes today in the top 25 poll.  Ranked 30th in the nation right now with their 6-0 record.

    The East Region is considered by national observers to be the weakest region in D3, but there's always room for an East Region team in the Top 25 if it can muster a gaudy enough record to overcome the perception that it's playing a subpar schedule. With traditional East Region powers Rochester, Brockport State, and St. John Fisher looking as though they might be on their way to somewhat down years, the path could be wide open for Ithaca to be that team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 03, 2008, 10:48:33 AM
    Sager,


    The east is really worse than the Atlantic?  Having been following Skyline, CUNY, and NJAC basketball for quite some time, the Atlantic has dropped off DRAMATICALLY from where it used to be.  The Skyline is actually awful now, especially since it's 2 best teams (stevens and manhattanville) left the region the year after going to the NCAA tournament.

    NJAC has fallen off considerably from the dominance it once had.

    And CUNY has been the York show, but aside from that it's been a bunch of mediocre teams. 


    I dunno, just seems odd to me that the Atlantic Region is considered stronger than the East, especially since I think the Atlantic has gotten definitely 1 (Stevens 06-07), and maybe 2 at most, at large Pool C bids into the Big Dance in recent memory.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 03, 2008, 01:00:20 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on December 03, 2008, 10:48:33 AM
    Sager,


    The east is really worse than the Atlantic?  Having been following Skyline, CUNY, and NJAC basketball for quite some time, the Atlantic has dropped off DRAMATICALLY from where it used to be.  The Skyline is actually awful now, especially since it's 2 best teams (stevens and manhattanville) left the region the year after going to the NCAA tournament.

    NJAC has fallen off considerably from the dominance it once had.

    And CUNY has been the York show, but aside from that it's been a bunch of mediocre teams. 


    I dunno, just seems odd to me that the Atlantic Region is considered stronger than the East, especially since I think the Atlantic has gotten definitely 1 (Stevens 06-07), and maybe 2 at most, at large Pool C bids into the Big Dance in recent memory.

    I'm not too upset about where IC is ranked right now. If they keep winning, that will take care of itself. Trinity and UR are perennially very good, but are experiencing some rebuilding right now. Those wins would have looked even better in other years. Cortland has struggled a bit, too, and I doubt much credence was given to the Hobart, B-W and Allegheny wins even though they were by substantial margins.

    We'll know more next week when Ithaca plays at Oneonta State and at St. Lawrence. O-State lost to Hartwick but knocked off Cortland and played a good Gordon team very close at their place. The St. Lawrence game will be a good one, too. The Larries are 3-1 with their only loss coming to then-#12 Ursinus, 82-76, at the Williams Tournament. St. Lawrence beat both Middlebury (solid NESCAC team) and Plattsburgh State by double digits. That will be a tough game as Ithaca looks to avenge the 85-81 OT loss to the Larries last year in a game that Ithaca played without the services of Sean Burton.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 03, 2008, 09:58:03 PM
    RIT loses at the Palestra to UR.  Marc Roberson is the hero for the Jackets, giving them the lead with 2 seconds left.

    RIT stormed out of the gate, I think it was 12-0 just a few minutes in. 

    RIT led by 6 with under 3 minutes left, but they turned the ball over a couple of times and missed an open jumper that really might have sealed it.  Tough loss for the Tigers.

    Nice games for Korinchak and Carson, who I'm not sure ever came out of the game.  His transformation in two years has really been incredible.  Actually, I just looked and Korinchak had a triple double.  18/11/10.  Nice.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 03, 2008, 10:06:03 PM
    Quote from: bamm on December 03, 2008, 09:58:03 PM
    RIT loses at the Palestra to UR.  Marc Roberson is the hero for the Jackets, giving them the lead with 2 seconds left.

    RIT stormed out of the gate, I think it was 12-0 just a few minutes in. 

    RIT led by 6 with under 3 minutes left, but they turned the ball over a couple of times and missed an open jumper that really might have sealed it.  Tough loss for the Tigers.

    Nice games for Korinchak and Carson, who I'm not sure ever came out of the game.  His transformation in two years has really been incredible.  Actually, I just looked and Korinchak had a triple double.  18/11/10.  Nice.

    UR overcame a 37-15 (!?!?!) rebounding disadvantage.  15 rebounds?  THAT's going to have to improve. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 03, 2008, 11:37:40 PM
    Other E8 scores from this week:

    -Hamilton nips Utica, 71-68.

    -Hartwick loses at Skidmore, 78-75, just a few days after Elmira ripped Skidmore.

    -Fisher slips by Hobart, 56-54. Wopperer (11) and Witte (13) lead a balanced Fisher attack.

    -Tonight, Lycoming easily disposes of Elmira, 81-49.

    -Stevens takes care of Drew, 72-58. Gray (20), Passalacqua (17) and Higgins (16) do heavy lifting for the Ducks.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on December 04, 2008, 12:50:30 AM
    Think the Ithaca-St Lawrence game may establish the early "beast of the east" though I am sure plently SUNYAC faithful and Hamilton fans may differ from my opinion. Certainly Geneseo fans will say they are in the mix too (and for those of you who have not seen the clip of the end of the Genesseo-Oswego that Razor provided on the SUNYAC board it truly is amazing-take it in).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on December 04, 2008, 01:44:21 PM
    Quote from: with age came? on December 04, 2008, 12:50:30 AM
    Think the Ithaca-St Lawrence game may establish the early "beast of the east" though I am sure plently SUNYAC faithful and Hamilton fans may differ from my opinion. Certainly Geneseo fans will say they are in the mix too (and for those of you who have not seen the clip of the end of the Genesseo-Oswego that Razor provided on the SUNYAC board it truly is amazing-take it in).

    I posted this over on the LL board, but it applies here too.

    I'm not sure it will be that close. Ithaca knocked off UofR by 9 in Rochester's tourney. And I know Hobart isn't the best measuring stick (1-4, though they lost by just 2 to St. John Fisher and 8 to Geneseo) but the Bombers absolutely killed them (118-81) at IC. Ithaca is averaging 90.2 points per game, while giving up 70.3 ppg. St. Lawrence does have a couple of nice wins under their belt (Middlebury and Plattsburgh's usually tough) -- and are averaging 86.8 ppg, while giving up 75.8 -- but it seems like Ithaca may be the class of the region this year.

    I'm sure I'll probably wind up eating crow, it usually happens when I make predictions like this, but I've just gotten a feeling about the Bombers when I've seen their games this year.

    Oh, the Geneseo clip was pretty unbelievable. Don't know if you caught it, but the Morton kid also tried to take a charge on the defensive end -- he got knocked over by the Oswego player taking the go-ahead shot -- in between the three and the crazy putback.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on December 04, 2008, 01:50:25 PM
    Quote from: with age came? on December 01, 2008, 06:35:50 PM
    Noticed that the d-3 home page did report their victory way down at the end of the article.  But any press on this site is good press.  I would be shocked the way numerous teams are losing in the top 25 if they do not crack it or at least get very close.  I agree that based on early results they are VERY DESERVING!!

    We're writing about Ithaca in Around the Nation this week, too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on December 04, 2008, 09:37:05 PM
    The article about Ithaca is on the front page currently. You can't miss it, great article highlighting how the team really has come together and what they are doing in the school history books. Tough lay-off for the Bombers, ten days between games which is odd to me as they aren't currently taking finals and are still in class until the end of next week I believe.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3lifer on December 04, 2008, 10:53:02 PM
    Hartwick College rebounds with a win over Wells College tonight 75-61 at home after a tough loss on road to Skidmore Tuesday night...

    Hartwick had five players post double figures in the win and improve their record to 5-2 on the young season. Cocozziello finished with 11 points 9 boards and 7 assists to round out the evening McCann led all HC scorers with 13.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 05, 2008, 06:09:58 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on December 03, 2008, 10:48:33 AM
    Sager,


    The east is really worse than the Atlantic?  Having been following Skyline, CUNY, and NJAC basketball for quite some time, the Atlantic has dropped off DRAMATICALLY from where it used to be.  The Skyline is actually awful now, especially since it's 2 best teams (stevens and manhattanville) left the region the year after going to the NCAA tournament.

    NJAC has fallen off considerably from the dominance it once had.

    And CUNY has been the York show, but aside from that it's been a bunch of mediocre teams. 


    I dunno, just seems odd to me that the Atlantic Region is considered stronger than the East, especially since I think the Atlantic has gotten definitely 1 (Stevens 06-07), and maybe 2 at most, at large Pool C bids into the Big Dance in recent memory.

    The Atlantic has definitely dropped off in recent seasons, mostly because the once-mighty NJAC's overall strength has plummeted faster than the stock price of a large financial institution. I'd say that the Atlantic is right down there with the East as well. But at least the Atlantic has some historical success on the national scene (although not really that much since Horace Jenkins tossed his Willie Pat uniform into the laundry basket for the last time early in this decade), including the Rowan championship in '96, whereas the East hasn't won a D3 title since Rochester's in '90 -- and it hasn't had a non-Yellowjackets representative in the Final Four since NYU in '94 or a non-Yellowjackets winner of the whole shebang since Potsdam State in '86. That's absolutely pathetic as far as national performance is concerned, especially since the Rochester program isn't exactly representative of the East Region in terms of schedule, competition level, or roster makeup.

    So, yeah, if you're into the whole "misery loves company" thing, then we can lump the Atlantic in with the East. ;)

    P.S. I'm not ragging on the East just to rattle people's cages in here. As a born-and-bred upstater and a big admirer of the old Jerry Welsh Potsdam State teams and Tom Murphy's Hamilton teams back in the day, I'd love to see a renaissance of D3 basketball in upstate NY.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on December 05, 2008, 09:13:27 AM
    Greg - I think several things have happened.

    The emergence of D-I programs upstate (e.g. Siena, Albany, Binghamton etc. has cherry picked some marginal D-I players who would have been turned into D-III stars),

    The departure of "name" coaches - Sauers, Welsh, Murphy

    The only name coach left in the region with a national rep is Neer.

    Also, players are leaving the region.  Hopkins at Amherst is an example, do you really think he wouldn't have played for Murphy or Welsh back in the day.  Welsh was a master at picking up discards from other programs, and mining his network of NYC & LI contacts to come up with gems.

    Then there's parity,  The SUNYAC, even in the Welsh era, was always a snake pit.  Long bus rides, invariably bad weather, Friday night/Saturday afternoon games, even good teams could (& did) get beat.  Given that you really need to be 21-5 or 22-4 to guarantee a Pool C bid these days, not a lot of room for road losses.

    That being said, the biggest test remaining on Ithaca's schedule is at SLU a week from tomorrow.  I think the E-8 is down a bit this year, and barring injury, I would not be surprised to see them at 25-0 going into the E-8 tourney.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 05, 2008, 09:24:34 AM
    Quote from: thebear on December 05, 2008, 09:13:27 AM
    Greg - I think several things have happened.

    The emergence of D-I programs upstate (e.g. Siena, Albany, Binghamton etc. has cherry picked some marginal D-I players who would have been turned into D-III stars),

    The departure of "name" coaches - Sauers, Welsh, Murphy

    The only name coach left in the region with a national rep is Neer.

    Also, players are leaving the region.  Hopkins at Amherst is an example, do you really think he wouldn't have played for Murphy or Welsh back in the day.  Welsh was a master at picking up discards from other programs, and mining his network of NYC & LI contacts to come up with gems.

    Then there's parity,  The SUNYAC, even in the Welsh era, was always a snake pit.  Long bus rides, invariably bad weather, Friday night/Saturday afternoon games, even good teams could (& did) get beat.  Given that you really need to be 21-5 or 22-4 to guarantee a Pool C bid these days, not a lot of room for road losses.

    That being said, the biggest test remaining on Ithaca's schedule is at SLU a week from tomorrow.  I think the E-8 is down a bit this year, and barring injury, I would not be surprised to see them at 25-0 going into the E-8 tourney.



    Mack Spellman at Emmanuel and Luke MacDougall at Trinity are a couple of names that come to mind that may have stayed in region back in the day.

    But I imagine the loss of homegrown talent is offset by kids from out of the area coming in.  Coco at Hartwick and I'm sure there are others.  There are 1 senior, 2 sophs and 1 freshman on the UR roster from NY and Hamilton has 2.

    makes a little more sense with NY added.  must be friday
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on December 05, 2008, 12:52:37 PM
    Quote from: d3hooperforlife on December 04, 2008, 10:53:02 PM
    Hartwick College rebounds with a win over Wells College tonight 75-61 at home after a tough loss on road to Skidmore Tuesday night...

    Hartwick had five players post double figures in the win and improve their record to 5-2 on the young season. Cocozziello finished with 11 points 9 boards and 7 assists to round out the evening McCann led all HC scorers with 13.

    I spoke up after Alfred beat them, and I have to do so again. Even though it was a 14-point win, beating Wells isn't quality because they are a first-year program. Currently 1-5, they've only beaten Hilbert, and even AU won against them, 71-64. It's not a knock on Wells, just the reality that this is their first year playing men's basketball.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 05, 2008, 01:49:29 PM
    Quote from: thebear on December 05, 2008, 09:13:27 AM
    Greg - I think several things have happened.

    The emergence of D-I programs upstate (e.g. Siena, Albany, Binghamton etc. has cherry picked some marginal D-I players who would have been turned into D-III stars),

    The departure of "name" coaches - Sauers, Welsh, Murphy

    The only name coach left in the region with a national rep is Neer.

    Also, players are leaving the region.  Hopkins at Amherst is an example, do you really think he wouldn't have played for Murphy or Welsh back in the day.  Welsh was a master at picking up discards from other programs, and mining his network of NYC & LI contacts to come up with gems.

    Then there's parity,  The SUNYAC, even in the Welsh era, was always a snake pit.  Long bus rides, invariably bad weather, Friday night/Saturday afternoon games, even good teams could (& did) get beat.  Given that you really need to be 21-5 or 22-4 to guarantee a Pool C bid these days, not a lot of room for road losses.

    That being said, the biggest test remaining on Ithaca's schedule is at SLU a week from tomorrow.  I think the E-8 is down a bit this year, and barring injury, I would not be surprised to see them at 25-0 going into the E-8 tourney.


    Bear, I'm optimistic about this year's team, but I think 25-0 is almost impossible. The Friday night/Saturday afternoon schedule will make it tough. Playing at Utica, Stevens and Fisher are never easy. I definitely think a Pool C is a possibility for the Bombers if they're tripped up in the E8 Tournament, but 25-0 probably isn't happening. I'd take 22-3, though!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on December 05, 2008, 04:20:27 PM
    Fisher ran the table in '04-05, and I think Ithaca this year is comparable. 

    I'll grant you that Stevens is a new wrinkle. 

    Also the E8 trips, other than Stevens (225 miles) are all 100 miles or less.

    Compare that to the 430 miles of bad weather (250 miles of Snowbelts + 180 miles of two lane highway) separating Fredonia & Plattsburgh by way of Potsdam.

    Looking forward to the weekend.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on December 06, 2008, 01:45:22 AM
    Have to side with Bombers on  this one E-8 (with 9 teams) may be down slightly at the top but from my viewpoint there may be more parity from top to bottom (ie: Hartwick, Elmira, Alfred which almost were always pushover's may expend some work now).  One injury or awful cold shooting night could be a problem in anybody's gym this year whereas in previous years it will still be a night off in a few of the gyms.  That equates to a loss or two in my opinion but I hope I am proved wrong because an undefeated nationally ranked team from the east is always a good thing to me. :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 06, 2008, 03:48:17 AM
    Ithaca may not run the table as thebear suggests but even if they don't get the automatic bid as conference champion because of an upset in the E8 playoffs, I have to believe they'll get a pool C bid. I think they'll achieve a Top 25 ranking before too long(possibly as early as next week)and will be well positioned to make a run in the NCAA tournament. This team will most likely be the top ranked team in the East region all season long. 5 teams ranked just ahead of them, #29 Calvin, #26 Hope, #25 Rhode Island College, #22 Translyvania, and #20 UMass-Dartmouth have all lost in the past 3 days. In addition, #17 Worcester Polytech, #15 Whitworth, #14 Puget Sound, #13 Illinois Wesleyan, and #7 UW-Stevens Pt. have also dropped a game since Monday's rankings came out. Ithaca won't forge ahead of all these teams but they just might crawl over 5 of them and crack the Top 25. St. Lawrence on the road next Saturday, as thebear stated, could be their biggest obstacle. If they get by the Saints they could run that undefeated streak to 10 before the Utica and Nazareth games. I think this team will be in the Top 25 all season and could peak as high as 12 or 13, but a top 10 is not out of the question. Remember last year Plattsburgh State was ranked #25 with an 8-2 record on Jan 6th and steadily rose to the #7 spot by week 14.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3lifer on December 06, 2008, 08:15:37 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on December 05, 2008, 12:52:37 PM
    Quote from: d3hooperforlife on December 04, 2008, 10:53:02 PM
    Hartwick College rebounds with a win over Wells College tonight 75-61 at home after a tough loss on road to Skidmore Tuesday night...

    Hartwick had five players post double figures in the win and improve their record to 5-2 on the young season. Cocozziello finished with 11 points 9 boards and 7 assists to round out the evening McCann led all HC scorers with 13.

    I spoke up after Alfred beat them, and I have to do so again. Even though it was a 14-point win, beating Wells isn't quality because they are a first-year program. Currently 1-5, they've only beaten Hilbert, and even AU won against them, 71-64. It's not a knock on Wells, just the reality that this is their first year playing men's basketball.


    Buck...I wasn't looking to state that this was a monumental win just updating league information on a game that happened that night maybe in was poor choice of words "rebounding with a win against Wells". Hartwick has for the last few years done an okay job of taking care of winning games early on in the season against teams they should beat there biggest hurdle as a program has always come in the second semester. It will be interesting to see if it is one that they can climb over this year. This is by far Hartwick's most talented and deep team they have had in Coach Culpo's tenure. You have to have depth to compete on a playoff level Ithaca, Fisher, Utica, RIT, Nazareth and Stevens last year have always been able to compete night in and night out at a high level because of quality depth those teams have always had. Don't mean to leave any teams out of the discussion just looking at the teams that are usually in the discussion.

    (modified by GS for formatting)
    Title: RIT WINS AT NAZARETH
    Post by: RITFAN on December 07, 2008, 08:11:56 AM
    RIT snatched victory from the jaws of what would have been a crushing defeat.  After being up by 15 early in the 2nd half (and by 19 in the first half) they found themselves down by 4 points with 24 seconds remaining.  3 point goals by Scott Young and Nate Konrinchak (with 2 fouls shots by Corey McAdam in between) tied the game just before the buzzer.  RIT dominated the overtime - Mark Carson scored the first 7 points, with a foul shot and consecutive "old school" 3 pt plays.

    Scott Young had 18 points, and Adam Sweet had 14-15 (not sure) for RIT.  RIT also got quality minutes from freshman Clayton Gray, Dan O'Brien and Brendan Harder.  Dan O'Brien - who is listed at 6'2"- attempted (and unfortuately missed) what would have been a spectacular dunk off a baseline drive.  Not the smartest play, but he has some impressive jumping ability.  Clayton Gray showed a nice touch around the basket. 

    The referees were erratic, to put it kindly.

    I have point out that while players on Ithaca and Stevens get much attention on this post, the best statistics in the Empire 8 belong to Mark Carson - 1st in rebounding (both offensive and defensive), 1st in blocked shots, 2nd in scoring (by a hair), 3rd in FGP, and 12th in steals.  I don't know why this is - I guess there are so few poster who follow RIT.  Anyway, I find it annoying that Bostic and Burton (both fine players) from Ithaca have both been named Empire 8 player of the week while Carson (with better overall stats) has not been acknowledged.  He plays hard every minute he is in the game, and is a pleasure for any basketball fan who knows the game to watch.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 07, 2008, 08:51:42 AM
    Nice work on the post.  I'm sure my buddy FROMAFAR will be a smiling when he wakes up this morning after a good win for RIT.


    As for the Player of the Week stuff, that's largely a "what did you do, and when did you do it" award from what I've seen.


    Week 1 - Gray wins MVP of Stevens Tip-Off Tournament.  Scores a lot of points.  Gets POY.
    Week 3 - Bostic goes for 19 and 22.  Wins MVP of Tournament.  Gets POY.



    I'm sure Carson, after the in conference performance this week, will probably win next weeks (unless some other player won a tournament MVP that I'm unaware of  ;)

      Player of the Week is almost always going to go to an E8 player that wins a tournament MVP.
    Title: RIT vs. Naz (addendum)
    Post by: RITFAN on December 07, 2008, 11:35:06 AM
    I should have mentioned another freshman for RIT - Marcus Lowe - had eight points and 5 rebounds in 33 minutes.

    I think the reason I forgot him is he has been contributing all season, and I don't really think of him as one of the freshman any longer.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 07, 2008, 10:20:24 PM
    Just talked to a buddy of mine who attended the NYU/Stevens game.  Said that 1) Don't believe the NYU undefeated hype.  This is not your daddy's NYU team.  There's no DeCorso and certainly no Boone on this years squad.  John Mish, their center, went for 18-10 against Stevens, and I was told that given the way Mish was going, Carson and Bostic should both be disappointed with anything less than 20-20 days against the Ducks.


    Even so, Stevens kept the game close despite shooting under 40% from the field and from 3.  Reason they lost was that they went 12-24 from the free throw line (a whopping 50%), while NYU went 25-33 (75%).  When you give up 13 points in free throw differential, you aren't going to win many of those games. 



    Ends the semester for the Ducks, so my next contribution will be whatever E8 game I can catch before the holidays.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 08, 2008, 09:30:52 AM
    Cyclone, I'm awake....... Your right again.... I am thrilled with the NAZ game. FAN, Carson has been everything we expected this year and more. The kids are growing up fast..As you guys know I don't like getting too chatty, might upset the kharma....... Cyclone is also correct about E 8 player of the week criteria. You also have to win games, so your supporting cast is important. I am excited since I believe Naz and Stevens are both NOT what I expected this year. Utica seems to be underachieving as well. I believe you can make the E 8 Tourney with 6 losses this year...... We should be in the mix. Young and Sweet are stepping up, and Korinchak is getting more consistent. Enough, I may have cost them 2 games with all this talk :o Hooper your right depth is very important and IC certainly has that. BUT I think that's NAZ, Stevens and Utica's short-fall. That's why down the road I think it's going to be a free for all for the last 3 playoff spots. NAZ has shown it's problems, UC has Connolly putting in a new system. Playing more guys, and Herring not being featured, which is a good thing, but takes time. Stevens just looks lost... How many foul shots has Passalaqua taken this year? I'll bet less than 10 in 8 games. Just stands around on offense. Grey not seeing the ball enough... how does Higgins take as many shots as Grey in a game...No knock on Higgins, he should go to the hole, ( but has to knock down foul shots). My Stevens guys tell me they really miss the kid Greco. He shot 70+% from free throw line, and was second best 3pt. shooter on team, besides his court savvy.  Still trying to get the low down on that...Stevens bench non existant... AND Cyclone your right about rebounding... They might be better going small and quicker rather than ask ther bigs to match up with the Carsons's of the world. Let the other teams bigs match up with their speed....Oh well, all's well thus far....FAN keep up the good work.. your lucky for us ;)     


         
    Title: Re: RIT WINS AT NAZARETH
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 08, 2008, 02:46:40 PM
    Quote from: RITFAN on December 07, 2008, 08:11:56 AM
    RIT snatched victory from the jaws of what would have been a crushing defeat.  After being up by 15 early in the 2nd half (and by 19 in the first half) they found themselves down by 4 points with 24 seconds remaining.  3 point goals by Scott Young and Nate Konrinchak (with 2 fouls shots by Corey McAdam in between) tied the game just before the buzzer.  RIT dominated the overtime - Mark Carson scored the first 7 points, with a foul shot and consecutive "old school" 3 pt plays.

    Scott Young had 18 points, and Adam Sweet had 14-15 (not sure) for RIT.  RIT also got quality minutes from freshman Clayton Gray, Dan O'Brien and Brendan Harder.  Dan O'Brien - who is listed at 6'2"- attempted (and unfortuately missed) what would have been a spectacular dunk off a baseline drive.  Not the smartest play, but he has some impressive jumping ability.  Clayton Gray showed a nice touch around the basket. 

    The referees were erratic, to put it kindly.

    I have point out that while players on Ithaca and Stevens get much attention on this post, the best statistics in the Empire 8 belong to Mark Carson - 1st in rebounding (both offensive and defensive), 1st in blocked shots, 2nd in scoring (by a hair), 3rd in FGP, and 12th in steals.  I don't know why this is - I guess there are so few poster who follow RIT.  Anyway, I find it annoying that Bostic and Burton (both fine players) from Ithaca have both been named Empire 8 player of the week while Carson (with better overall stats) has not been acknowledged.   He plays hard every minute he is in the game, and is a pleasure for any basketball fan who knows the game to watch.


    RITFAN, based on your email address, I'm guessing that you are not an unbiased observer. For one, Bostic was named E8 Player of the Week during a week when RIT didn't even play a game. Bostic earned the honor on the morning of Monday, December 1st, while Burton earned the honor on the morning of November 24th. RIT played zero games between the two announcements. So there's the reason why Bostic won it that week after posting 13.5 pts and 17 rebs during a 2-0 week where he won MVP of a tournament.

    The week Burton won it, here were his stats:

    11/18 vs Hobart: 28 pts, 4 assists in 27 mins of a 118-81 rout of Hobart

    11/21 vs Trinity: 16 pts, 7 assists in 80-75 win over a perenially good Trinity squad from the NESCAC

    11/22 at Rochester: 22 pts, 6 assists in 81-72 over UR at the Palestra.

    What about averaging 22 pts and almost 6 assists during a 3-0 week that included wins over two very good teams, a rout over Hobart and the MVP of the UR Tourney should preclude Burton from taking that honor? Carson had a nice statistical week (18.5 pts, 16.5 rebs), much of which was garnered in a game against weak Thomas, but had it in a 1-1 week against average, at best, competition. Even if I were unbiased, I'd have a tough time not giving it to Burton after the week he had against that quality of competition.

    You will be happy to know, however, that it was announced today that Mark Carson earned the honor of E8 Player of the Week. Congratulations, well-deserved.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on December 08, 2008, 07:21:43 PM
    RITFAN -- Yes, as GB15 pointed out, you got your wish today.  I have a feeling this won't be the last award for Carson this year, either -- even if the Tigers don't qualify for the E8 tourney.

    I hope no one gets tired of this, because I am going to keep posting them as long as he keeps it up.  Through five games, Carson is averaging 20.3 ppg and an absurd 14.3 rpg. 

    Most impressively, in my mind anyway, is his free throw percentage:  64%.  For anyone who remembers his attempts as a freshman, you understand. 

    Anyway, couple of interesting matchups on Saturday.  Ithaca and SLU, which I would normally be confident in the Bombers, except it's in Canton and as our friend thebear likes to point out -- you never really know how a team is going to play after a horrific bus ride through the snow belt.

    It would be nice if Naz put something together against Oswego as well, but at this point we have no reason to expect that. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on December 09, 2008, 08:18:38 AM
    Bamm u r truly correct!!  He is shooting 64% from the line!!!!!!  In his early days I am not sure he shot 64% on hitting the rim!!  ;D It just goes to show what hard work and determination can do.  Hats off to Mr. Carson!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2008, 11:15:10 AM
    Bamm, Caz, Cyclone, FisherDynasty, Ethelred...check your personal messages.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 09, 2008, 12:53:53 PM
    GBB15,  RITFAN and I are feeling a little left out ???  don't tell me Carson is hurt, and your saving us the immediate pain? Just Kidding I hope ;) Could you imagine if Carson shot 75% from the line. Bend the knees and up and down...... That's why Rick Barry was so good. When you shoot underhand your forced to bend you knees and shot comes out of legs and you have to shoot up rather than these line drives some try throwing in. But what do I  know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 09, 2008, 02:54:11 PM
    Congrats to the Bombers faithful....Ithaca coming in, representing the e8 at 22nd in the country.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 09, 2008, 10:15:46 PM
    I feel like I have missed so much in the last few weeks. The wife and I moved into our new house, and we have been without internet for a while. It is good to be back. I see the empire 8 has some strong looking teams in the early going. I think this could be an exciting year in the conference.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 10, 2008, 12:11:37 PM
    Intriguing game tonight in Oneonta as the Bombers take on the "other" Red Dragons. O-State is 5-2 and 3-0 in the SUNYAC. They have a close road loss to a solid Gordon squad and good conference victories over Cortland and Fredonia. However, they also lost to Hartwick by 11. This should be a solid tune-up for the Bombers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jdex on December 10, 2008, 12:39:09 PM

    Will be surprised to see OSt hang with this group of Bombers
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jdex on December 10, 2008, 01:30:22 PM

    Meant to explain ...... that we see IC reveling in new-found nat'l climb, and OSt yet to confront such a solid crew. That said, Oneonta court always tough place to play, and Bombers better not get caught looking to Saturday's date at SL ............geez, don't these guys ever play at home! Still pick IC by a lot
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 10, 2008, 10:04:25 PM
    I know I'm a little late, but it's real nice seeing IC cracking the top 25...they might be the only team in the e-8 with a shot at being in the polls at all seeing as Stevens is down and Naz has started horribly and might not be as good of a team as anticipated. Keep it up bombers!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 10, 2008, 10:24:21 PM
    Ithaca survives 79-77 in OT; Burton with 27 points and seven assists; 15 points and five blocks for Bostic.

    EDIT:  IC was down 77-71 before closing the game on an 8-0 run.  Burton made 2 FTs with 4 seconds left for the gamewinners - Oneonta's Brian Beckford made a layup at the buzzer of regulation to tie the game while getting hacked...but he missed the free throw that would have won it.  WHHEWWW!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on December 11, 2008, 02:37:21 AM
    Just goes to confirm what gb15 & I said.  It is tough to run the table. Really looking forward to SLU vs Ithaca.  Should be real important in determining who the frontrunner in the east is.  And Magic was quite the fortune teller predicting Ithaca ascent to the top 25.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 12, 2008, 10:29:22 PM
    Oneonta rebounds from their tough 2 pt. loss to Ithaca with a 22 pt. win over a decent Westfield State team, 68-46, in the opening round of the Brodie Tournament at RIT.  The Red Dragons will take on host Rochester Tech for the championship tomorrow. RIT defeated Houghton 89-73 in tonight's 2nd game.

    This game should go right down to the wire as both teams have experienced some early season success. Think the Red Dragons may squeak one out though.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 13, 2008, 11:27:06 AM
    Predictions for today's games:

    Elmira upsets Hobart, 67-63.

    Oswego handles Naz, 85-76.

    Oneonta State nips RIT, 72-70.

    St. Lawrence knocks off Ithaca, 80-75.

    Yes, that's right, I think Ithaca is going to get beat today. I know O-State is tough, but St. Lawrence is better and that is a long bus ride. O-State killed the Bombers on the boards and I'm worried SLU will do the same.

    SLU needs to avoid getting into a run-and-gun game with Ithaca. The Saints score 85 per game, but need to avoid the temptation to get into a track meet with the Bombers. St. Lawrence will be better suited keeping this game in the low or mid-70's like O-State did.

    Ithaca needs to ride Burton and Bostic tonight. Balanced attacks are nice, but these are the games where the stars need to take over. The role players still need to make timely shots, but it needs to be the Burton and Bostic show. The Bombers need to rebound the better, too. I hope I'm wrong.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 13, 2008, 11:40:55 AM
    I keep thinking that the next game is going to be the game that IC slips, but it hasn't happened yet. I think they will take care of SLU tonight.

    I just wish Fisher would actually play a game. All these teams with 7,8,9 games and fisher at 3-1, with no games scheduled for a couple weeks. Give me something to do huh..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 13, 2008, 04:37:13 PM
    Hot start by the Bombers has them leading 45-25 with a shade under 7 mins left in the 1st half. Ithaca is 7-12 from 3-pt range so far. Cruz with 13 and Jordan Marcus with 12 (on 4-4 from 3-pt range). Good start but have to keep it up.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 13, 2008, 04:59:31 PM
    Ithaca 56, St. Lawrence 39 at halftime.  Cruz, Marcus and Burton in double figures already - IC only shot two free throws in the first half.  Guess that'll happen when you have 20 three-point attempts.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 13, 2008, 05:18:16 PM
    The Larries go on a 7-0 run to cut Ithaca's lead to 10, 67-57. Time to let Bostic do some work. He has only 5 attempts and it seems like they all come after offensive rebounds. A guard-oriented offense is great but you can't neglect your 2nd best player.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 13, 2008, 05:23:51 PM
    We officially have a game now. Bombers lead down to four, 73-69, 10 mins left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 13, 2008, 05:51:29 PM
    Bombers hang on for the victory, 95-89. The Larries pull to within one, 87-86, on Garrett Sharlow's layup with 2:55 remaining. Sean Burton comes up large when it matters most, scoring 11 of Ithaca's last 13 points to preserve the victory. Burton with 26 pts, 8 assts, 4 rebs. Cruz with 21 pts and 5 rebs, Leahy with 15 pts and 5 rebs. Bostic has 8 pts and 16 rebs, and Jordan Marcus goes for 12 pts, all in the first half.

    Larries have five in double figures: Vonnak (17), G. Sharlow (16), J. Sharlow (16), Williams (14), Wopperer (12). Even with IC's late FT's, the Bombers attempted only 14 FT's to SLU's 24 FT's (make your own inferences), many of which came in the 2nd half.

    Nice win for the Bombers. Could've been disastrous if they blew a 20-pt first half lead.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 13, 2008, 07:54:15 PM
    Ithaca's 95-89 win over St. Lawrence this afternoon should give them the top ranking in the East region when the NCAA releases them in January. Don't see them relinquishing that spot for quite a while. Barring an upset in early E8 league action, their next toughest test could come against Potsdam St. on Jan. 13th in Ithaca. The Bombers are off until Jan. 2nd when they open up E8 play against Elmira. This is the 1st of 5 league games in 10 days, followed by the Potsdam game 2 days later. Ithaca has already beaten Cortland, Rochester, Oneonta, and St Lawrence, 4 teams that were contenders for the top spot in the East, and did so with road wins in all 4 instances. Could move up a couple of spots in the Top 25 ranking next week
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 13, 2008, 08:39:52 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 13, 2008, 07:54:15 PM
    Ithaca's 95-89 win over St. Lawrence this afternoon should give them the top ranking in the East region when the NCAA releases them in January. Don't see them relinquishing that spot for quite a while. Barring an upset in early E8 league action, their next toughest test could come against Potsdam St. on Jan. 13th in Ithaca. The Bombers are off until Jan. 2nd when they open up E8 play against Elmira. This is the 1st of 5 league games in 10 days, followed by the Potsdam game 2 days later. Ithaca has already beaten Cortland, Rochester, Oneonta, and St Lawrence, 4 teams that were contenders for the top spot in the East, and did so with road wins in all 4 instances. Could move up a couple of spots in the Top 25 ranking next week

    I'm not ready to live in a world where the Men's BBall team does better than the football team....

    Haha. Congrats to the Bombers for the record-breaking run! I'd be more into it if I knew anything about D-III hoops on the whole
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on December 14, 2008, 06:57:06 AM
    RIT fell to 4-3 yesterday, losing 72-66 to Oneonta in the Brodie tourney finals.

    Carson with 22 pts. and 19 boards in the final makes the all tourney team along with Scott Young.
    RIT is off until January 2 when they host Utica, a game which is the first of 4 straight E8 home games before the Chase starts. Fisher and Ithaca round out that stretch of games.

    With the Tigers playing 4 straight on the road after the Chase they really need a good showing in this early year home stand to put themselves in position to make the E8 tourney.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 14, 2008, 12:53:22 PM
    In other E8 action yesterday, Hobart knocked off host Elmira, 92-80. And in a minor upset, previously winless Naz knocked off a quality Oswego team, 104-94.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 14, 2008, 06:26:58 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 14, 2008, 12:53:22 PM
    In other E8 action yesterday, Hobart knocked off host Elmira, 92-80. And in a minor upset, previously winless Naz knocked off a quality Oswego team, 104-94.


    104-94, sounds like a real defensive battle...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 15, 2008, 08:36:38 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 13, 2008, 05:51:29 PM
    Bombers hang on for the victory, 95-89. The Larries pull to within one, 87-86, on Garrett Sharlow's layup with 2:55 remaining. Sean Burton comes up large when it matters most, scoring 11 of Ithaca's last 13 points to preserve the victory. Burton with 26 pts, 8 assts, 4 rebs. Cruz with 21 pts and 5 rebs, Leahy with 15 pts and 5 rebs. Bostic has 8 pts and 16 rebs, and Jordan Marcus goes for 12 pts, all in the first half.

    Larries have five in double figures: Vonnak (17), G. Sharlow (16), J. Sharlow (16), Williams (14), Wopperer (12). Even with IC's late FT's, the Bombers attempted only 14 FT's to SLU's 24 FT's (make your own inferences), many of which came in the 2nd half.

    Nice win for the Bombers. Could've been disastrous if they blew a 20-pt first half lead.


    Man IC can score some points this year. I knew they would be tough to stop with Bostic and Burton, but man they can fill it up.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 20, 2008, 11:53:30 AM
    Anybody alive in the land of the Empire 8? Not a lot happening in the world of Division III basketball right now. Does anyone know anything about this St. Mary's team that Fisher is playing in a couple weeks? I know they are ranked, and look to be pretty solid. Any other news out there?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on December 20, 2008, 02:09:35 PM
    They appear to be huge, multiple 6-7 & above's.

    They got hammered (blown out in the 2nd half) by Baruch in the city in their last game, after winning their first 7.

    I would guess Fisher should be competitive, Kornaker is an excellent coach, and he will have his troops prepared.

    They played Nazareth in their opener, so Rob  has game film and first hand knowledge right across the street.

    As usual the east gets no respect, undefeated Ithaca ranked below these guys, who lost to a CUNY team by 20.

    Be a nice win for Fisher, the E8, & the region if Fisher were to beat them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 20, 2008, 02:31:53 PM
    Thanks for the update Bear. I hope you are right. Fisher playing teams with size scares me, but hopefully athleticism can win out. I think Fisher needs a win like this to make a statement and say okay we are back. The problem is I don't know if they are really back yet or not. A 3-1 start after last year is nice, especially with some young guys contributing, However, they really haven't beat anyone yet. I think they could use a couple nice home wins in their tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 20, 2008, 04:38:47 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 20, 2008, 02:31:53 PM
    Thanks for the update Bear. I hope you are right. Fisher playing teams with size scares me, but hopefully athleticism can win out. I think Fisher needs a win like this to make a statement and say okay we are back. The problem is I don't know if they are really back yet or not. A 3-1 start after last year is nice, especially with some young guys contributing, However, they really haven't beat anyone yet. I think they could use a couple nice home wins in their tourny.

    Fisher is about where they should be right now. The loss to DeSales turned out not being as bad as everyone initially thought, as DeSales is currently ranked (#25) and also beat a then-ranked Randolph-Macon. It also turned out that the win over 'Port wasn't as great as everyone thought, since 'Port is terrible, apparently. Fisher now has a chance to make some noise. With a few wins over the holidays and to start the E8 season, Fisher may find itself in the next fan poll (cheap plug alert).

    I said at the end of last year and the beginning of this year, I believe Fisher is an E8 Tourney team. I still believe that.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 21, 2008, 12:37:45 PM
    I haven't seen them play this year (yet), but from what I hear, they seem to be building back to where the fans and school have come to expect them to be. I also hear that they are a year or two away this year. I think they are a E8 tourny team this year as well. They have some young talent, but I still think they need some sort of statement. Fingers crossed.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on December 21, 2008, 04:50:05 PM
    I am still a strong believer that Ithaca, Utica, Stevens and Naz/RIT are your E8 tourney teams. I dont see where Fisher fits into this equation. Do you guys honestly think they are better than any of those last 3 teams? Naz had a tough start but im still convinced with the Mcadam brothers they will be ahead of Fisher for that 4th spot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 21, 2008, 08:26:30 PM
    I feel like Fisher is better than RIT. They were better than them, standings wise, last year. And, they seem to be improved this year compared to last.
    Fisher always plays Utica tough, and I am confident they will at least split with them this year.
    Naz is off to a 1-4 start, so who knows what is happening there. Especially with their history of underachieving with their talent.
    And Stevens, a team that split with Fisher last year (when they were supposed to win the league), has lost a lot from last year.

    All in all, I think Fisher will have a good chance to get into the tournament. I think all of the teams in the league, except Ithaca, have glaring weakness or five, and the 2-6 spots in the league are wide open. I think a two seed for Fisher is a little out of their reach, but I would not be suprised if they got a 3, and I am starting to expect a 4.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on December 24, 2008, 01:36:56 AM
    I do not want to sound like the "infamous"  Hawk of yesteryear but do not count Hartwick out of the equation.  Coco apparently has company this year so I think that they may also contend for a playoff slot.  New coaches at Alfred and Elmira will eliminate them from pushover status too.  The e-8 other than Ithaca could be as competitive as it has been in many years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on December 24, 2008, 11:32:15 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on December 24, 2008, 01:36:56 AM
    New coaches at Alfred and Elmira will eliminate them from pushover status too.  The e-8 other than Ithaca could be as competitive as it has been in many years.

    Not sure about Elmira, they seemed to be making progress before Connolly jumped ship for Utica and have a coach (Torgalski) with a lot of good experience under his belt (not to mention playing for Neer), but don't think Alfred will be too much of a factor. Wellman has jumped around a bunch, and while he was at Williams, he was rumored to be heading out of coaching before landing the AU job. And the players didn't get better from last season, especially losing Ellis Walsh. Sure Smithgall is back, but not enough to make a difference.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 25, 2008, 11:00:47 PM
    I agree with you sjfcards.  The e8 is very competitive this year but the quality of teams is down overall.  Fisher being very young and down from prior years, I think will still get in the e8 tourny due to the fact that all of the other teams excluding ithaca are average.  Utica is tough and is a wild card dont know much about them.  RIT i think fisher can play with, naz is naz, going to be a barn burner with fisher either way no matter whos better, stevens is down a little bit so shoudl be a good game, and all the other teams are pretty good.  Fact of the matter is Fisher is usually good at home, have a good system and finds ways to win.  They typically don;t blow as many games to worse teams as other teams in the e8 do.  That being said i think they will find a way even though on paper maybe shouldnt be included. Gobombers is right, that loss to Desales, who I didnt think was that great, isnt as bad now that they are #25.  They were a very well coached and disciplined team that can take anyone out of their game but I think Fisher was the better team that was just too young.  I thin kby end of season they will turn into a solid team and make a run to possibly the championship e8 game losing to ithaca.  But its way too early to tell as conf. games have not started yet.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: BKPioneer on December 29, 2008, 12:58:58 PM
    what's up fellas i'm a new poster to the board. i've been a ghost reader for years, so i figured it's time i posted something.

    1. as much as i hate to say it i'll state the obvious, ithaca is the class of the E8. when either Burton or Bostic plays well and the role players play their roles i can't see anyone beating them.

    2. going into this season i thought utica was going to be a very good team and that they even had a chance at making the ncaa tourney. now i'm not so confident. i'm not fond of the new guy, just from what i've seen as i'm around the program a lot. and it doesn't look like the kids are buying what he's selling. Herring is having his worst season of his career (hopefully he turns it around). if Goode was still around this team defnitely had a shot at making the ncaa's.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 29, 2008, 07:23:46 PM
    It feels like it has been 6 months since Fisher last played a game. I am hoping for a good one tonight, with Fisher pulling it out in the end. We will see how it goes. I think Fisher has an opportunity to really make a statement that they are on the way back after being down last year. I think Kornaker will make something happen, and they will get a win tonight. The big problem for Fisher will be their size, since Fisher doesn't have a true big man.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 29, 2008, 10:15:17 PM
    Good win for Fisher tonight, as they pull away for a 97-80 win over St. Mary's College. I said that Fisher could make a statement, and I think they did tonight.
    I still think they are looking for a 3 seed, maybe a 2, but I think a win like tonight can set a young team up for a good season.

    Tonight could be a big boost to the teams confidence...I hope.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on December 30, 2008, 12:20:59 PM
    ok seriously what is going on at Nazareth??? 2 losses in the Staten Island tournament to a 2-7 team and an 0-8 host team?? There has to be something happening there behind the scenes because a team with the Mcadam brothers and the big kid (Dimer?) there is no way this team should have only 1 win. I saw them at the RIT game and although they didnt win I thought they played well and had some pieces to at least content for a playoff spot. Now it looks to me like getting to 7 wins will be an achievement. Mike Daley has to at least consider letting go because this is getting rediculous this team is too talented.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 30, 2008, 06:36:42 PM
    I was a little shocked myself to see the start that Naz has gotten off to. They have a history of underachieving, but come on. I think you may be right, something could be going on behind the scenes. I can't believe that Canori was that good of a player, that players with all league talent would nose dive like this once he left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 30, 2008, 09:01:57 PM
    First off, HUGE wins for fisher!! Upset over St Marys and then win over Muskingum in the final of their tourney. Talk about a team making a statement...Baltz pissed he quit now??

    Second, meanwhile down the road Naz is STRUGGGLING! Talk about underachieving! sjfcards - I don't think it's the loss of Canori that's hurting them as teams are putting up some serious points on them and their 3 top scorers (Mcadam bros & big, Dehimmer) are putting up points as well. Gotta d up I guess....

    The season is still early and lots of teams can turn it around with conference play picking up this weekend...

    IC vs Elmira & Alfred
    Fisher vs. Hartwick & Stevens
    Naz vs Stevens & Fisher
    RIT vs Utica & Elmira

    Happy New Years to everyone as well!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 30, 2008, 10:06:16 PM
    Naz hasn't played good defense in years. The problem is, now, they don't have enough firepower to outscore the other team. They don't miss Canori, per se, but they do miss the 18-20 pts he'd give you each night, as well as his ability to stretch the defense which gave Corey MacAdam more space to operate. They're only 0-1 in conference, so they're far from dead. But they quickly need to turn things around.

    Nice tourney win for Fisher. It looks like they may be positioning themselves to be one of Ithaca's top challengers. Utica hasn't improved as much as I thought they might have, but the season is still young and they were much better towards the end of last season. RIT has had some nice early success, too. Now, if only they can keep from being swept by Hartwick, the team that's kept them out of the E8 Tourney two years running.

    It's shaping up to be an exciting conference season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 31, 2008, 12:10:48 AM
    Quote from: thebear on December 20, 2008, 02:09:35 PM
    They appear to be huge, multiple 6-7 & above's.

    They got hammered (blown out in the 2nd half) by Baruch in the city in their last game, after winning their first 7.

    I would guess Fisher should be competitive, Kornaker is an excellent coach, and he will have his troops prepared.

    They played Nazareth in their opener, so Rob  has game film and first hand knowledge right across the street.

    As usual the east gets no respect, undefeated Ithaca ranked below these guys, who lost to a CUNY team by 20.

    Be a nice win for Fisher, the E8, & the region if Fisher were to beat them.


    Once again "the bear" comes through with his excellent insight as Fisher makes it look easy against #20 St. Mary's
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 31, 2008, 09:16:22 AM
    to go along with previous posters that was an excellent weekend for Fisher.  Shot the lights out against St. Mary's and pulled out a gutzy win against a solid Muskingham team.  They looked really really good this weekened, total opposite from the 1st semester.  The addition of Anthony Hall is huge in giving them more depth and a little more confidence on the wings.  Freshman Jordan Gettings has earned a starting spot and playing extremely well.  Fisher does not have a true big man but that is not needed in d3  until the ncaa tourney.  Mike Wopperer there only big man is playing good defense on the defending teams big and 6'5 brandon Witte is athletic as hell so can cover bigs as well.  Witte went baseline and almost dunked over a kid for Muskingham, was something you dont see much at the D3 level.  That being said I think Fisher is a e8 tourny team now and might split with Ithaca this year with the win being at Fisher. They will need to shoot like they did against St. Mary's to win the conference, however, I don't see that happening as they are still very young with only 2 jr's and no sr's.  I think they will be inconsistent losing a few games they shouldnt and winning a few games they shouldnt possibly upsetting Ithaca one of those games. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 02, 2009, 10:58:36 AM
    A good helping of conference games on this weekend's schedule. Here's one man's best guess:

    FRIDAY

    Hartwick (61) at Fisher (72)
    Stevens (76) at Naz (74)
    Ithaca (81) at Elmira (64)
    Utica (70) at RIT (77)

    Hartwick is better this year, but I don't see them knocking off a streaking Fisher team in Pittsford. Stevens was poor on the road last year, but Naz is struggling and I think the Ducks have enough to get by. Ithaca should take care of Elmira. Utica historically struggles at RIT. I like the way the Tigers are playing so far and, at the same time, still think Utica has to improve to get back to where they were at the end of last season.

    SATURDAY

    Stevens (70) at Fisher (80)
    RIT (75) at Elmira (64)
    Hartwick (79) at Naz (82)

    Stevens at Fisher is the game I'm looking forward to this weekend. The home teams usually have the advantage in the second of a back-to-back. I like Fisher in that one. I have a feeling Hartwick may beat Naz, but I'll still go with the Golden Flyers. RIT wins.

    SUNDAY

    Ithaca (79) at Alfred (58)
    Oneonta (64) at Utica (67)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on January 02, 2009, 11:38:41 AM
    Good picks Bomber, but I'll disagree on a couple.  I pick Hartwick to beat Naz and OState to beat Utica.



    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 02, 2009, 10:58:36 AM
    A good helping of conference games on this weekend's schedule. Here's one man's best guess:

    FRIDAY

    Hartwick (61) at Fisher (72)
    Stevens (76) at Naz (74)
    Ithaca (81) at Elmira (64)
    Utica (70) at RIT (77)

    Hartwick is better this year, but I don't see them knocking off a streaking Fisher team in Pittsford. Stevens was poor on the road last year, but Naz is struggling and I think the Ducks have enough to get by. Ithaca should take care of Elmira. Utica historically struggles at RIT. I like the way the Tigers are playing so far and, at the same time, still think Utica has to improve to get back to where they were at the end of last season.

    SATURDAY

    Stevens (70) at Fisher (80)
    RIT (75) at Elmira (64)
    Hartwick (79) at Naz (82)

    Stevens at Fisher is the game I'm looking forward to this weekend. The home teams usually have the advantage in the second of a back-to-back. I like Fisher in that one. I have a feeling Hartwick may beat Naz, but I'll still go with the Golden Flyers. RIT wins.

    SUNDAY

    Ithaca (79) at Alfred (58)
    Oneonta (64) at Utica (67)

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 02, 2009, 01:44:39 PM
    Ill keep it the same as next level exept for Stevens beating Fisher on Saturday.  Its going to be the first hint of inconsistency of the young fisher team.  I Also think Utica will beat RIT by 5.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 02, 2009, 09:03:57 PM
    Naz up 47-31 over Stevens at the half. Goes on a 25-8 run in the 1st four min and 20 secs. of the 2nd half to open up a 72-39 lead.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 02, 2009, 09:26:50 PM
    Fisher up 41-37 over Hartwick with 9:40 to go in the game
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 02, 2009, 09:51:04 PM
    Fisher defeats Hartwick  63-52

    Nazareth downs Stevens 98-75
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 02, 2009, 09:51:59 PM
    Dial up the road woes for Stevens!


    98-75 at Naz...game was ugly from the tip.


    Not surprised to see that, even when the calendar changes, some things stay the same.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 02, 2009, 10:28:51 PM
    In other action, Ithaca mauls Elmira, 112-72. 40 points? Really? Wow. Box score coming later.

    RIT whips Utica, 74-59. Final score not indicative of what a blowout this one really was. Tigers take 33-21 halftime lead. RIT lead bloats to 27 pts after 27-12 run makes it 60-33 with 10:29 remaining. Carson leads the way with 21 pts and 17 rebs. Adam Sweet with 16 off the bench. Patrick Goodman paces Utica with 13 pts. Rough night for Doug Herring, scoring only 6 pts on 1-12 from the field.

    Fisher over 'Wick, 63-52. Hey, I got the margin right on that one!

    Naz wallops Stevens, 98-75. Silly me for trusting Stevens on the road. Naz and Stevens are enigmas.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 02, 2009, 10:31:59 PM
    Nazareth and Stevens tied at 18 with 12 min to go in the 1st half. Naz goes on a 12-0 run to take control and never looked back. Up by as many as 37 with 4 min to go.
    The Mcadam brothers lead the way. Corey had 22 pts on 9x13 fg, 4x5 ft, 8 rebs, 12 assists. Ryan scored 21 pts on 7x16 fg, 5x6 3's, 2x2 ft, 4 boards, 2 asst. Jeff Dehimer added 16 pts on 7x12 fg, 2x2 ft, 11 reb. Jordan Major chipped in with 16 pts as well on 6x10 fg, 4x5 3's. Naz shot 38x72 fg, 11x16 3's, 11x13 ft's. Impressive!

    Stevens was led by Virgil Gray with 19 pts on 7x15 fgs, 1x4 3's, 4x4 ft. Justin Sanchez scored 12 pts on 4x7 fgs, 2x3 3's, 2x2 ft. Mike Cutri added 10 pts on 4x6 fgs, and Simon Smith was also in double figures with 10 pts. Stevens shot 28x71 fg, 7x28 3's, 12x20 ft's.

    I guess Naz wanted no repeat of those 2- 3 point  losses to Stevens last year during the regular season.  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 03, 2009, 12:13:31 AM
    Not a great win for Fisher tonight, but it wasn't all bad. They definatley did not play their best game, but still found a way to win. These were the games that Fisher found a way to lose last year, and they seem to be winning this year (so far). Good to see if you are a Fisher fan. Hopefully they can come back tomorrow and put together a complete game against a Stevens team that will really want a win to avoid the weekend sweep.

    I was suprised at the Stevens Naz score, but I guess Naz still has something in the tank. It just scares me that Stevens will really need this game tomorrow.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2009, 11:58:09 AM
    Bombers get any injury scare, as Jeff Bostic has to leave the gmae with a cut to the hand, and possibly, a concussion...

    Ithaca continues to dominate. Elmira's nothing to write home about, but you have to like that the Bombers came back after a three week layoff and went 100% for the whole 40 minutes. Although Bostic's injury could hurt, the team is deep enough to survive him for a bit. All 5 starters score in double figures, and really, the only irreplaceable player on the team is Burton.

    The question now seems to be: How far can this Bomber team go? Can they make a run in the NCAA's? Second question: I know much less about the NCAA at-large selection process for basketball--mostly because it's never come up before for IC. Given Ithaca's struggle last season in the conference tournament, I'm moderately wary. I'd assume that their record/ranking is solid enough, but I always wonder when you see an undefeated squad in the bottom third of the Top 25, because I wonder if voters are saying "Well, they're 9-0 and that has to count for something, right?" Is Ithaca the type of team that could go, say 21-6 and make it as an at large?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 03, 2009, 01:47:10 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2009, 11:58:09 AM
    Bombers get any injury scare, as Jeff Bostic has to leave the gmae with a cut to the hand, and possibly, a concussion...

    Ithaca continues to dominate. Elmira's nothing to write home about, but you have to like that the Bombers came back after a three week layoff and went 100% for the whole 40 minutes. Although Bostic's injury could hurt, the team is deep enough to survive him for a bit. All 5 starters score in double figures, and really, the only irreplaceable player on the team is Burton.

    The question now seems to be: How far can this Bomber team go? Can they make a run in the NCAA's? Second question: I know much less about the NCAA at-large selection process for basketball--mostly because it's never come up before for IC. Given Ithaca's struggle last season in the conference tournament, I'm moderately wary. I'd assume that their record/ranking is solid enough, but I always wonder when you see an undefeated squad in the bottom third of the Top 25, because I wonder if voters are saying "Well, they're 9-0 and that has to count for something, right?" Is Ithaca the type of team that could go, say 21-6 and make it as an at large?

    Personally, I think a lot of the luck with d-3 at large (known as Pool C) bids has to do with what happens in other conferences and making sure that teams that are supposed to win their conferences take care of business. It really ruins it when teams like Clarkson last year make a run in their conference tourney and take away a Pool C bid from a much more deserving team in a better conference (like UAA, NESCAC).

    If I were IC I would worry about taking care of our business and getting that automatic bid and win the E-8 Conference tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2009, 03:08:01 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 03, 2009, 01:47:10 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2009, 11:58:09 AM
    Bombers get any injury scare, as Jeff Bostic has to leave the gmae with a cut to the hand, and possibly, a concussion...

    Ithaca continues to dominate. Elmira's nothing to write home about, but you have to like that the Bombers came back after a three week layoff and went 100% for the whole 40 minutes. Although Bostic's injury could hurt, the team is deep enough to survive him for a bit. All 5 starters score in double figures, and really, the only irreplaceable player on the team is Burton.

    The question now seems to be: How far can this Bomber team go? Can they make a run in the NCAA's? Second question: I know much less about the NCAA at-large selection process for basketball--mostly because it's never come up before for IC. Given Ithaca's struggle last season in the conference tournament, I'm moderately wary. I'd assume that their record/ranking is solid enough, but I always wonder when you see an undefeated squad in the bottom third of the Top 25, because I wonder if voters are saying "Well, they're 9-0 and that has to count for something, right?" Is Ithaca the type of team that could go, say 21-6 and make it as an at large?

    Personally, I think a lot of the luck with d-3 at large (known as Pool C) bids has to do with what happens in other conferences and making sure that teams that are supposed to win their conferences take care of business. It really ruins it when teams like Clarkson last year make a run in their conference tourney and take away a Pool C bid from a much more deserving team in a better conference (like UAA, NESCAC).

    If I were IC I would worry about taking care of our business and getting that automatic bid and win the E-8 Conference tourney.

    I kind of get that...I mean, it's the same thing with football. My question more was, nationally speaking, how does the E8, and East region get perceived and how does this affect IC? The Bombers don't have the initial high standing the football team uses to get their Pool C bids, so what kind of regular season do they need to attain that respect?

    Also, anyone else not like conference tournaments? I feel like these teams get 14 games to make a case for being the confrence's best team. To then host a single elimination tournament where one fluky game can prevent inclusion in the NCAA's, i don't know. It puts too much emphasis on one weekend rather than a full season of 25 games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 03, 2009, 03:52:46 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2009, 03:08:01 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 03, 2009, 01:47:10 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2009, 11:58:09 AM
    Bombers get any injury scare, as Jeff Bostic has to leave the gmae with a cut to the hand, and possibly, a concussion...

    Ithaca continues to dominate. Elmira's nothing to write home about, but you have to like that the Bombers came back after a three week layoff and went 100% for the whole 40 minutes. Although Bostic's injury could hurt, the team is deep enough to survive him for a bit. All 5 starters score in double figures, and really, the only irreplaceable player on the team is Burton.

    The question now seems to be: How far can this Bomber team go? Can they make a run in the NCAA's? Second question: I know much less about the NCAA at-large selection process for basketball--mostly because it's never come up before for IC. Given Ithaca's struggle last season in the conference tournament, I'm moderately wary. I'd assume that their record/ranking is solid enough, but I always wonder when you see an undefeated squad in the bottom third of the Top 25, because I wonder if voters are saying "Well, they're 9-0 and that has to count for something, right?" Is Ithaca the type of team that could go, say 21-6 and make it as an at large?

    Personally, I think a lot of the luck with d-3 at large (known as Pool C) bids has to do with what happens in other conferences and making sure that teams that are supposed to win their conferences take care of business. It really ruins it when teams like Clarkson last year make a run in their conference tourney and take away a Pool C bid from a much more deserving team in a better conference (like UAA, NESCAC).

    If I were IC I would worry about taking care of our business and getting that automatic bid and win the E-8 Conference tourney.

    I kind of get that...I mean, it's the same thing with football. My question more was, nationally speaking, how does the E8, and East region get perceived and how does this affect IC? The Bombers don't have the initial high standing the football team uses to get their Pool C bids, so what kind of regular season do they need to attain that respect?

    Also, anyone else not like conference tournaments? I feel like these teams get 14 games to make a case for being the confrence's best team. To then host a single elimination tournament where one fluky game can prevent inclusion in the NCAA's, i don't know. It puts too much emphasis on one weekend rather than a full season of 25 games.

    My impression is that the rest of the world views the E8 as a solid middle of the pack conference, with their best able to compete with other conferences most years, but pretty weak at the lower end.  And the East Region may not be the worst region, but it ain't the best either. 

    As for conference tournaments, I tend to agree with you.  I don't think they are big money generaters for the conference so I am not really sure what the purpose is.  I know the UAA dosen't have one, mostly because of logistics, but are there any others that don't?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 03, 2009, 06:12:02 PM
    What the hell is going on with Naz...another loss to Hartwick?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 03, 2009, 07:29:53 PM
    Unless Ithaca completely falls apart they are definately going to get an at large this year.  I see them losing 4-5 games at most this year during the regular season.  possibly split with fisher and/or naz, and maybe 1 to 2 other losses.  I think the overall region is much much much weaker this year at the top therefore some mediocre teams will get at larges as there will be minimal standout teams.  That being said depending on if who ithaca pairs with and who they have to play will determine how far they go in the ncaa touney.  If they get hot I think they could make it to an elite 8 or so, however, i would like to see how they continue to do in the conference before we talk how far they can go in the tourny. 

    Fisher ended up knocking off Stevens by 8 today with a balanced scoring attack.  Mike wopperer there lone big man is playing better and better each game and had a double double.  Fisher at 7-1, although, im not conviced they are up there with Ithaca yet looks to be one of the strongest in the region as well.  Id have to put them in the 2 spot of the region based on record, strength of schedule, and scoring margins alone as of right now. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 03, 2009, 08:39:23 PM
    I think I would put Fisher at # 2 in the region as well, but I am really biased, and I really have not checked in on any of the other teams in the region. I think they are definitely proving to be the 2nd best team in the conference this year. I am just hoping they can avoid enough losses to be in the hunt at the end of the season for a top seed, and possibly an at large bid (fingers crossed...I know it is early, and they are a young team).

    I don't know if anyone can touch Ithaca in the region this year. We will see what the rest of the way holds for them. I think they will lose a few games in the conference (2), but I think they can make a small run in the tourny if/when they get in.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 03, 2009, 09:40:00 PM
    RIT pushes their conference record to 3-0. I think most were expecting Utica, Naz and Stevens to be joining Ithaca in the E8 Tourney. Could it be that the other three teams will be RIT, Fisher and Hartwick? Don't forget Hartwick beat Oneonta by 11 on the road, and Oneonta beat RIT and took IC to OT.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 04, 2009, 12:06:02 PM
    I think im going to have to agree with you Gobombers.  Hartwick seems to be much improved.  they always start the season good with their weak non-conf games but was a big win over Naz at Naz.  Hartwick is tough to play at home and only lost to fisher by 8 at Fisher.  They might be able to split with them as well. 

    Sjfcards,  although it is too early to tell but if Fisher gets thru the conference withonly 3-4 losses and only takes one loss in the Chase they will have a good shot at an at arge bid.  However, Fisher has been playing a lot at home lately and not sure how good they will be away in conference as the team is so young.  I think they will get a loss to RIT (at RIT), Naz (at Naz), Ithaca (twice maybe only once), and at Hartwick.  I think they lose to Ithaca twice in reg season I can see them pulling off the upset over ithaca in the e8 tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 04, 2009, 01:13:05 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 04, 2009, 12:06:02 PM
    I think im going to have to agree with you Gobombers.  Hartwick seems to be much improved.  they always start the season good with their weak non-conf games but was a big win over Naz at Naz.  Hartwick is tough to play at home and only lost to fisher by 8 at Fisher.  They might be able to split with them as well. 

    Sjfcards,  although it is too early to tell but if Fisher gets thru the conference withonly 3-4 losses and only takes one loss in the Chase they will have a good shot at an at arge bid.  However, Fisher has been playing a lot at home lately and not sure how good they will be away in conference as the team is so young.  I think they will get a loss to RIT (at RIT), Naz (at Naz), Ithaca (twice maybe only once), and at Hartwick.  I think they lose to Ithaca twice in reg season I can see them pulling off the upset over ithaca in the e8 tourny.

    Yeah I think I agree with you. I can see 5-7 losses overall with some traditionally tough games (RIT and NAZ) and IC being so good this year. However, I think this last week, with Fisher playing those 4 games in 6 days was a huge stretch for Fisher. Even though they were all at home, beating a ranked team, an OK Muskingem team, and starting 2-0 in the conference is really big. Beating St. Mary's is a big confidence booster, and it is always important to get off to a good start in the conference. Getting off to a 7-1 start is about as good as it could get for Fisher after last years start.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 04, 2009, 04:36:13 PM
    Ithaca, down 1 at the half 41-40, outscores Alfred by 12 in the 2nd to come away with a 75-64 win and to remain 1 of only 9 undefeated schools left in Divsion III. Should move up a couple spots in this weeks rankings. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 04, 2009, 05:11:53 PM
    Ithaca does rally to beat Alfred 75-64.  The write up on the Bombers website says they were down as many as 9 in the first half. They get a double-double from Leahy with 11-11, Burton leads all with 18 points. Bostic starts despite the nasty fall Friday night at Elmira that left him with seven staples in his head, he goes for 8-8. The box scores shows Alfred gets great performances from all starters who score all but one point for the Saxons. Ithaca out rebounded Alfred 48 -35 and hit 10 more FT then the Saxons as well. Like everyone is saying they should move up a few more spots and inch closer to the top 10.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 04, 2009, 06:22:35 PM
    Oneonta travels to Utica and comes away with a 77-71 win. Red Dragons improve to 8-3. UC drops to 3-4. It doesn't get any easier for the Pioneers as they travel to Ithaca on Tuesday to take on the Bombers.

    Oneonta also has a date with an unbeaten team as they travel to NYU for a Tuesday regional matchup.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: BKPioneer on January 04, 2009, 09:02:09 PM
    It's over for the Utica. Saw the game today and they just don't look like they are playing un-inspired basketball. They look like they are just going through the motions, this can be attributed to coaching. Unless they can get it together it's going to be a longggg season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 04, 2009, 09:36:54 PM
    I don't see what else would have changed with Utica to make them drop so far so quickly. Now, I have not seen them play at all this year, and I am going solely on what I see in their results and on their boards. We all said that Goodemote (?) could coach, but oh my. Do people think it is a problem with the new Coach, or is it just a problem of the players not buying into his new system yet? Whatever the problem is, they need to right the ship ASAP to save the season.

    Ithaca is still going strong I see. It is nice to see that they are somewhat human anyway.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 04, 2009, 10:40:04 PM
    Ithaca is definately human.  they have not made the NCAA tournment with the same cast the past 3 years. They are finally mature enough to make it this year, and should do well in it, especially with the rest of the region seeming extremely weak compared to normal.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 05, 2009, 12:34:13 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 04, 2009, 10:40:04 PM
    Ithaca is definately human.  they have not made the NCAA tournment with the same cast the past 3 years. They are finally mature enough to make it this year, and should do well in it, especially with the rest of the region seeming extremely weak compared to normal.

    It's mostly the same cast. However, you're neglecting a big part of it: Chris Cruz. It's only his 2nd year and the coaches love him. He's averaging 14.8 PPG after only going for 4.4 last season. He's really been that missing piece that's turned Ithaca into a dominant offensive force. When all five guys in your starting lineup score in double figures, you're deep.

    Also something to be aware of: The Bombers have only played one game at home all season. In a staggeringly odd schedule, only 10 of IC's 25 games this season are at home. Ithaca has 9 OOC games and only two of them at home. For the remaining 15 games however, the Bombers get nine of them at home.

    It's pretty amazing that this team is 10-0 playing virtually on the road. However, with Burton, Bostic, Leahy and Rodgers graduating, Ithaca's going to lose a lot of talent. This is the year for them. They've pretty much already staked a claim to the best team in school history. The question is: How far can they go?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 05, 2009, 08:21:17 AM
    Hey gang, I've been away for the Holidays and have a lot of catching up to do..  The E-8 is going to be a mystery to me all year. yes IC should and will get the # 1 seed. But Naz and Utica really have me baffled. Yea I know Naz never played D, but they didn't play D last year and were able to win somewhat, as well as the E-8 tourney. Utica doesn't surprise me that much. They were underachievers all last year until the last two weeks of the season. With the same group back, this is not unusual. Yea maybe a new system has them reeling a little, but I'm not so sure that's just a convenient excuse for poor performance. ( my read on Ducks since I do see them as much as I see RIT) Stevens does not surprise me either. They are lost without a center and a point guard. Teams have figured out that they cannot score against a zone. Grey is a slasher and tough to penetrate against a good zone.  Passalaqua refuseses to penetrate ??? Thus only 8 foul shots in 11 games. Baker trying to play the point but looks confused and no outside threat. Sanchez ( backup) has twice as many turnovers as assists, and no outside threat...They are in trouble. That Naz win was not a big surprise. Fisher is definitely a team to watch... Although they played poorly against Stevens, still won.. Hartwick will be a factor all year, they are playing hard and Coco does have help this year. I think Alfred is better than we all think, ( hows that PEP), but I really mean that. They too come to play. Elmira is weak and have not shown much. They could pull off a win against Utica or Stevens if they scout these guys well. As for RIT, you guys know me the less said the better. I will only say I am happy thus far.  My new E-8 finish.

    IC
    Fisher
    RIT
    Hartwick
    Naz
    Utica
    Stevens
    Alfred
    Elmira

    But what do I know ;)





       


           
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 05, 2009, 08:44:53 AM
    Hey guys-- been a long time since ive been on the bball board- but wanted to mention that UC is under new leadership.
    Chris Connoly took over for UC and yes the team looks a little disjointed this year.

    That being said- happy new year all and go alma mater.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 05, 2009, 06:24:51 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 05, 2009, 08:21:17 AM
    Hey gang, I've been away for the Holidays and have a lot of catching up to do..  The E-8 is going to be a mystery to me all year. yes IC should and will get the # 1 seed. But Naz and Utica really have me baffled. Yea I know Naz never played D, but they didn't play D last year and were able to win somewhat, as well as the E-8 tourney. Utica doesn't surprise me that much. They were underachievers all last year until the last two weeks of the season. With the same group back, this is not unusual. Yea maybe a new system has them reeling a little, but I'm not so sure that's just a convenient excuse for poor performance. ( my read on Ducks since I do see them as much as I see RIT) Stevens does not surprise me either. They are lost without a center and a point guard. Teams have figured out that they cannot score against a zone. Grey is a slasher and tough to penetrate against a good zone.  Passalaqua refuseses to penetrate ??? Thus only 8 foul shots in 11 games. Baker trying to play the point but looks confused and no outside threat. Sanchez ( backup) has twice as many turnovers as assists, and no outside threat...They are in trouble. That Naz win was not a big surprise. Fisher is definitely a team to watch... Although they played poorly against Stevens, still won.. Hartwick will be a factor all year, they are playing hard and Coco does have help this year. I think Alfred is better than we all think, ( hows that PEP), but I really mean that. They too come to play. Elmira is weak and have not shown much. They could pull off a win against Utica or Stevens if they scout these guys well. As for RIT, you guys know me the less said the better. I will only say I am happy thus far.  My new E-8 finish.

    IC
    Fisher
    RIT
    Hartwick
    Naz
    Utica
    Stevens
    Alfred
    Elmira

    But what do I know ;)





       


           

    That looks good to me. I can hardly believe that so much has changed with the conference predictions in just a few short weeks, but it sure has. Early in the year, we all (or most of us) figured it was IC, Stevens, Naz, and then Fisher, Utica, and RIT pushing for the last spot in the tourny. Now Utica, Stevens, and Naz all seem lost without a chance, and Fisher and RIT look great for a spot in the tourny. And who saw Hartwick coming. I know they played well in the early going, but they do that almost every year. It is crazy to me that they seem to have the inside track on the 4th or even the 3rd seed. A crazy few weeks!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 05, 2009, 10:39:32 PM
    Ithaca College was the biggest mover in this weeks D3 Hoops Top 25 poll moving from the 17th spot up to #12. The Bombers received 317 points this week gaining 115 more than their 202 pts from the previous poll. I was pretty sure they would climb over Ursinus and Illinois Wesleyan, then when Elms lost yesterday to a so-so Regis team it looked good for a 3 spot move. I didn't expect them to pass Carnegie Mellon and Richard Stockton as neither of those teams suffered a loss since the last poll. Especially Stockton who won the Scranton tournament this past weekend. Nice to see the Bombers getting noticed. Hopefully the top 10 is only a week or 2 away.

    Undefeated NYU as I expected finally got some consideration, with 22 points to move into the #32 spot. First time NYU has received any points all year. Only 6 unbeaten D III teams left and 2 of them are in the East region.

    And who would have thunk it? St John Fisher, the 3rd team from the East region to merit some love from the Top 25 pollsters. The Cardinals check into the poll with 19 pts. and tie Mary Hardin-Baylor for the #34 spot. That big win over St. Mary's(Md) definitely got them some notice. That and winning 4 games in 6 days to stretch their record to 7-1.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 06, 2009, 08:51:47 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 05, 2009, 08:21:17 AM
    I think Alfred is better than we all think, ( hows that PEP), but I really mean that. They too come to play.

    Coach Wellman has done well with what he's had to work with but has been hindered to date with a lack of height and depth. Pep journeyed to Fisher to see AU take on a decent Muskingum squad and the Saxons shot the lights out in the first half, taking a 38-28 lead into intermission. But they ran out of steam...stayed in it but faltered down the stretch, 78-73.

    While Pep missed the IC-AU battle at McLane (Pep had Kaz00 at the house to watch the Dolphins...why did IC and AU play on a Sunday afternoon, anyway?) it sounds like it was a similar scenario. So long as the treys are dropping, AU can stay with anybody but the Saxons lack a big dominant man down low. AU-IC were tied at 61-61 before the Bombers pulled away.

    Pep believes Wellman has a nice scheme and solid game management. AU may surprise some E8 foes this year. But when  Wellman has had the benefit of recruiting some players, it should turn into more Ws.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 06, 2009, 01:05:53 PM
    Mark Carson wins another RACA award.

    http://www.ritathletics.com/news/2009/1/6/MBB_0106094648.aspx?path=mbb

    Senior center Mark Carson (Voorheesville, NY/Voorheesville) of the RIT men's basketball team, was named the Rochester Area Colleges Athletics (RACA) Male Athlete of the Week on Monday for the week ending January 4, 2009.   It is his second weekly RACA honor this season and third of his career.

    Carson, who leads all NCAA men's basketball players Division I, II and III) in rebounds per game (14.9), led RIT to a pair of Empire 8 win last week. He averaged 24.5 points and 15.0 rebounds per game in two wins and shot 66.6% from the floor.  He had 21 points and 17 rebounds in a 74-59 win over Utica on Friday night. He followed that up with a career-high 28 points and 13 rebounds in an 81-64 win over Elmira on Saturday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 06, 2009, 08:49:00 PM
    Back in The Bulb, Ithaca jets out to a 46-29 halftime lead over Utica. Leahy on fire early, 7-10 FG and 4-5 3-ptrs, finishing the half with 18 pts. Bostic with 5 pts and 10 rebs at half. Burton resting the arms tonight, 8 pts at half.

    Get the ball to Bostic!! One FG attempt in the first half. Hey guards, look down low!! He's one of the best players in the conference, use him.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 06, 2009, 09:51:39 PM
    Ithaca takes care of Utica, 87-64. Big night for Leahy who goes for 25 pts and 10 rebs. Bostic with 14 and 14, and Burton plays an efficient game racking up 17 pts and 6 assists. Doug Herring leads the way with 15 pts for Utica.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 06, 2009, 10:41:18 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 06, 2009, 09:51:39 PM
    Ithaca takes care of Utica, 87-64. Big night for Leahy who goes for 25 pts and 10 rebs. Bostic with 14 and 14, and Burton plays an efficient game racking up 17 pts and 6 assists. Doug Herring leads the way with 15 pts for Utica.

    I was at the game. Leahy was unstoppable. Guys were a little soft inside on offense, but 1-5, Ithaca was quicker and more athletic than Utica. First step off the dribble, IC had penetration. Also, Utica is a terrible free throw shooting team.

    Bombers had a terrible five minutes to open the 2nd half, missing a lot of shots short, as the lead dropped to 7. Eventually, there was just too much talent for Utica to overcome, and the Bomber express rolls on. 11-0. Simply amazing. Even on a somewhat inconsistent night, they put up 87. Bostic goes over 1,000 points for his career.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 06, 2009, 11:58:58 PM
    RIT beats Fisher 56-36. There goes those top 25 votes. The loss isn't surprising but scoring only 36 pts is.  Looks like 5 games in 9 days was too much.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 07, 2009, 12:49:22 AM
    Alfred 90- Elmira 65

    Carl Embury hits a 3 on Alfred's 1st possession to grab a lead they would never relinquish. Saxons, up by as many as 29 in the 2nd half, are led by Embury's 25 pts, 9x16 fg, 5x9 3s, and 8 boards. B. Barry, 23 pts, on 8x13 fg, 4x8 3's +5 asst. M. Stopera added 17 pts, 4 reb and G. Kwiecien chipped in wuth 16 pts, 6 boards and 5 asst.   Elmira's Jon Adamson had a double/double with 25 pts and 10 boards to lead the Soaring Eagles. Also in double figures were B. Dipiazza with 15 and N. Zazulia with 10.

    Saxons have already more than doubled their win total of last year. Pep has got to be feeling it
    Title: Re: Empire
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 07, 2009, 02:13:37 AM
    Quote from: magicman on January 06, 2009, 11:58:58 PM
    RIT beats Fisher 56-36. There goes those top 25 votes. The loss isn't surprising but scoring only 36 pts is.  Looks like 5 games in 9 days was too much.

    Ye Gods...

    I can understand being gassed, but man, 36 points? Things that stand out from the boxscore:

    1) -21 in rebounds? Man. I know Carson is a beast, but that's just not pretty
    2) Only 7 attempts from the line? That's tough
    3) 4 points in 11 minutes of the 2nd half with 7 missed layups

    I would imagine fatigue played a role. Ithaca just played their third game in five nights and looked tired at times in the 2nd half. Guys were coming up short on shots and weren;t real active on defense. They play four games over the next nine days, so I'd imagine a loss is coming. Wick, RIT and Potsdam will all be tough. I think Naz is winnable. Any team allowing 87 points a game should be eaten alive by IC. Potsdam comes in at the end of a 5 team, 11 day road trip so both teams may be a little tired in that one.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 07, 2009, 07:07:05 AM
    Quote from: magicman on January 07, 2009, 12:49:22 AM
    Alfred 90- Elmira 65

    Carl Embury hits a 3 on Alfred's 1st possession to grab a lead they would never relinquish. Saxons, up by as many as 29 in the 2nd half, are led by Embury's 25 pts, 9x16 fg, 5x9 3s, and 8 boards. B. Barry, 23 pts, on 8x13 fg, 4x8 3's +5 asst. M. Stopera added 17 pts, 4 reb and G. Kwiecien chipped in wuth 16 pts, 6 boards and 5 asst.   Elmira's Jon Adamson had a double/double with 25 pts and 10 boards to lead the Soaring Eagles. Also in double figures were B. Dipiazza with 15 and N. Zazulia with 10.

    Saxons have already more than doubled their win total of last year. Pep has got to be feeling it

    Pep promised Coach Wellman that if the Saxons get five wins in his first season at the helm, the band would play at their next game....looks like Pep will need to muster the musicians as AU is now 5-6. Pep is expecting a call from Coach W.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 07, 2009, 08:03:21 AM
    Wow.  Couldn't be more pissed about having to miss that game. 

    Carson's line:  20 points, 20 rebounds, 5 blocks, 5 steals.

    The Tigers have really done well for themselves in taking care of business at home, getting out to a 5-0 conference record.  Both games against IC remain, @Stevens, @Utica, @Hartwick, and @Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 07, 2009, 09:41:58 AM
    Hey PEP, I couldn't be more impressed. I know it was Elmira, but as I always say don't knock a team for beating someone they should beat. Your guys did it in great fashion... There could be a big turn around in the final standings this year. Alfred and Hartwick can create some significant havoc. Fisher, although I picked them 2 the other day, looked horrible against RIT ( fatigue and a GOOD RIT team  ;D, contibuting), but they didn't really play well against Stevens in their win Saturday. ( 18 turnovers, Stevens shoots 27% and they only win by 8).  They have to show they can bounce back. Utica Friday will tell something about both teams. if Utica can't hold home court advantage, they truly are in trouble. Then they go to Alfred, that should make things a little clearer as well. IC is in another galaxy and I don't see that changing. Too much fire power. It only gets worse for Naz, they play them Friday at IC.  Stevens next two are at Utica and Alfred... Oh boy!!! If those two games may be very definitive on what these 3 teams are made of.  I know Stevens has a tough time on the road, but I think this year, the home games may be tough as well. In fairness they lost their (Center Williams, point guard Greco, and Farid's experience). None of those replaced adequately. Although everyone else has issues as well. By next weekend this could all change. But what do I know ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on January 07, 2009, 01:14:13 PM
    Wow, only giving up 36 pts to Fisher is great for RIT. After so many frustrating losses against Fisher the last 5-6 years its great to see the Tigers get a win like that.

    I don't wish I was back in Rochester too often but it would have been great to be at Clark Gym last night.

    Looking at the RIT schedule this year its interesting that they basically play the first half of the conference season at home and then have to go on the road for the second half. I don't recall seeing a schedule like that before and hopefully the Tigers can keep the early season form going on the road.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Nosyor on January 07, 2009, 03:13:05 PM
    I'm new to the boards and figured I'd start to chime in.  I was at the RIT vs Fisher game last night and Carson was as impressive as his number show.  At this point he has to be the MVP of the league.  If you take him off the court this RIT team is very young and unproven (nicely put).  Watch how the team plays when Carson is resting on the bench.  Both their scoring and defense get much much worse.  With Carson in the game the rest of the players can ease into their roles.  Young, Sweet, and Roe are always a threat from the outside.  This makes it difficult for teams to double down on Carson, there is always a shooter waiting.  Korinchak reminds me of Rajon Rondo.  He scores points, gets rebounds, assists, and lots of steals.

    I'm looking forward to the game this Sunday vs Ithaca.  The President of RIT has made a proposition to dye his hair orange if both sides of the bleachers are full for the boys and girls games.  I remember this one last year and the place was packed and very loud.  It was a great atmosphere for a D3 game.  RIT has played Ithaca tough the past few years and I'd expect this one to follow suit.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 07, 2009, 06:46:47 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 07, 2009, 03:13:05 PM
    I'm new to the boards and figured I'd start to chime in.  I was at the RIT vs Fisher game last night and Carson was as impressive as his number show.  At this point he has to be the MVP of the league.  If you take him off the court this RIT team is very young and unproven (nicely put).  Watch how the team plays when Carson is resting on the bench.  Both their scoring and defense get much much worse.  With Carson in the game the rest of the players can ease into their roles.  Young, Sweet, and Roe are always a threat from the outside.  This makes it difficult for teams to double down on Carson, there is always a shooter waiting.  Korinchak reminds me of Rajon Rondo.  He scores points, gets rebounds, assists, and lots of steals.

    I'm looking forward to the game this Sunday vs Ithaca.  The President of RIT has made a proposition to dye his hair orange if both sides of the bleachers are full for the boys and girls games.  I remember this one last year and the place was packed and very loud.  It was a great atmosphere for a D3 game.  RIT has played Ithaca tough the past few years and I'd expect this one to follow suit.

    Not surprisingly, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree that Carson would or should be E8 POY at this point. Again, not surprisingly, I'd have to give the nod to Sean Burton. He's the best player on the #12 team in the nation. He leads the conference in scoring, 2nd in assists and generally dominates the game in a way that not a lot of 5'9'' players can. Without him, Ithaca couldn't run the high octane offense that they do, at least not nearly as efficiently. He gets open shots for his teammates and makes each of them SIGNIFICANTLY better players, the true mark of a "superstar." Burton also gets it done when the chips are down. For example, he scored 11 of the last 13 Ithaca points in a big road victory at St. Lawrence.

    Carson is a very good player and will more likely than not be a 1st team player (I think you'll see both Carson and Bostic on 1st team). He has improved immensely over his career and is now receiving due recognition. But I just don't think his accomplishments eclipse what Burton has done and where Burton has taken the Ithaca program.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 07, 2009, 08:06:50 PM
    Well Fisher layed a major egg last night. I watched the game online and it looked like there was no energy or entusiasm on Fisher's side last night. Carson is a stud, and RIT is way to good to not play well like Fisher did last night. I think Fisher can still make a run at a 2 seed, but RIT is really making that game with IC interesting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 07, 2009, 08:48:02 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 07, 2009, 06:46:47 PM
    Not surprisingly, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree that Carson would or should be E8 POY at this point. Again, not surprisingly, I'd have to give the nod to Sean Burton. He's the best player on the #12 team in the nation. He leads the conference in scoring, 2nd in assists and generally dominates the game in a way that not a lot of 5'9'' players can. Without him, Ithaca couldn't run the high octane offense that they do, at least not nearly as efficiently. He gets open shots for his teammates and makes each of them SIGNIFICANTLY better players, the true mark of a "superstar." Burton also gets it done when the chips are down. For example, he scored 11 of the last 13 Ithaca points in a big road victory at St. Lawrence.

    Carson is a very good player and will more likely than not be a 1st team player (I think you'll see both Carson and Bostic on 1st team). He has improved immensely over his career and is now receiving due recognition. But I just don't think his accomplishments eclipse what Burton has done and where Burton has taken the Ithaca program.

    I think Carson to this point is making a legitimate race of it.  He numbers are simply overwhelming.  Virtual tie with Burton for PPG and leading all of NCAA basketball in rebounding (leading the conference by four boards a game).

    First in blocks, first in field goal percentage.

    There's a lot of season left, but at this point Carson is delivering the "wow" factor big time.  It would be a tough vote right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 07, 2009, 09:49:56 PM
    GoBombs,


    At the end of the season, I think what you are saying will come to fruition and it is obviously a flip of the coin argument, but right now if I had a vote I'd be going with Carson.


    As Bamm said, the points per game is not an overwhelming favorite for either one.  While Burton is 2nd in the conference in assists, Carson is #1 in ALL of college basketball in rebounding.  D1..D2..D3..he is first.  That gives him the edge in their "secondary" category.


    Carson is also 1st in blocks and 1st in field goal percentage.  So, taking Burton's stats vs. Carson's stats right now, I actually think the overall edge goes to Carson.


    The difference is that Burton's team is the #12 team in the country.  But that's the dilemma...because there is no debate that Burton's "team" is A LOT better, at least on paper/historically, than Carson's.  Bostic is a 1st team all E8 player, Leahy is a very very good player for them, and everyone expected Ithaca to be good.  What Burton's doing is no surprise, and that hurts him.

    Carson on the other hand has brought RIT out of no where, and because the players around him get less respect, it makes what he's doing seem even bigger.  I'm 90% sure if the coaches voted now, Carson would end up getting the nod.


    That being said, this is why we don't vote in January.  If I were a betting man, at the end of the season I would still bet on Burton to win POY.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Nosyor on January 07, 2009, 10:47:11 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 07, 2009, 06:46:47 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 07, 2009, 03:13:05 PM
    I'm new to the boards and figured I'd start to chime in.  I was at the RIT vs Fisher game last night and Carson was as impressive as his number show.  At this point he has to be the MVP of the league.  If you take him off the court this RIT team is very young and unproven (nicely put).  Watch how the team plays when Carson is resting on the bench.  Both their scoring and defense get much much worse.  With Carson in the game the rest of the players can ease into their roles.  Young, Sweet, and Roe are always a threat from the outside.  This makes it difficult for teams to double down on Carson, there is always a shooter waiting.  Korinchak reminds me of Rajon Rondo.  He scores points, gets rebounds, assists, and lots of steals.

    I'm looking forward to the game this Sunday vs Ithaca.  The President of RIT has made a proposition to dye his hair orange if both sides of the bleachers are full for the boys and girls games.  I remember this one last year and the place was packed and very loud.  It was a great atmosphere for a D3 game.  RIT has played Ithaca tough the past few years and I'd expect this one to follow suit.

    Not surprisingly, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree that Carson would or should be E8 POY at this point. Again, not surprisingly, I'd have to give the nod to Sean Burton. He's the best player on the #12 team in the nation. He leads the conference in scoring, 2nd in assists and generally dominates the game in a way that not a lot of 5'9'' players can. Without him, Ithaca couldn't run the high octane offense that they do, at least not nearly as efficiently. He gets open shots for his teammates and makes each of them SIGNIFICANTLY better players, the true mark of a "superstar." Burton also gets it done when the chips are down. For example, he scored 11 of the last 13 Ithaca points in a big road victory at St. Lawrence.

    Carson is a very good player and will more likely than not be a 1st team player (I think you'll see both Carson and Bostic on 1st team). He has improved immensely over his career and is now receiving due recognition. But I just don't think his accomplishments eclipse what Burton has done and where Burton has taken the Ithaca program.


    Ithaca has a better cast of players then RIT does. I think we would all agree with that.  In my opinion, if you were to take Burton off of Ithaca they would still be a top 4 team, possibly the number 1.  If you take Carson off of RIT they finish 6 at best.  Carson controls both ends of the floor.  He alters shots and eliminates second chance points on defense and scores on offense.  It's still very early in the empire 8 season and we will see how the games play out.  I'm excited to see what happens this Sunday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 07, 2009, 11:35:43 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 07, 2009, 10:47:11 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 07, 2009, 06:46:47 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 07, 2009, 03:13:05 PM
    I'm new to the boards and figured I'd start to chime in.  I was at the RIT vs Fisher game last night and Carson was as impressive as his number show.  At this point he has to be the MVP of the league.  If you take him off the court this RIT team is very young and unproven (nicely put).  Watch how the team plays when Carson is resting on the bench.  Both their scoring and defense get much much worse.  With Carson in the game the rest of the players can ease into their roles.  Young, Sweet, and Roe are always a threat from the outside.  This makes it difficult for teams to double down on Carson, there is always a shooter waiting.  Korinchak reminds me of Rajon Rondo.  He scores points, gets rebounds, assists, and lots of steals.

    I'm looking forward to the game this Sunday vs Ithaca.  The President of RIT has made a proposition to dye his hair orange if both sides of the bleachers are full for the boys and girls games.  I remember this one last year and the place was packed and very loud.  It was a great atmosphere for a D3 game.  RIT has played Ithaca tough the past few years and I'd expect this one to follow suit.

    Not surprisingly, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree that Carson would or should be E8 POY at this point. Again, not surprisingly, I'd have to give the nod to Sean Burton. He's the best player on the #12 team in the nation. He leads the conference in scoring, 2nd in assists and generally dominates the game in a way that not a lot of 5'9'' players can. Without him, Ithaca couldn't run the high octane offense that they do, at least not nearly as efficiently. He gets open shots for his teammates and makes each of them SIGNIFICANTLY better players, the true mark of a "superstar." Burton also gets it done when the chips are down. For example, he scored 11 of the last 13 Ithaca points in a big road victory at St. Lawrence.

    Carson is a very good player and will more likely than not be a 1st team player (I think you'll see both Carson and Bostic on 1st team). He has improved immensely over his career and is now receiving due recognition. But I just don't think his accomplishments eclipse what Burton has done and where Burton has taken the Ithaca program.


    Ithaca has a better cast of players then RIT does. I think we would all agree with that.  In my opinion, if you were to take Burton off of Ithaca they would still be a top 4 team, possibly the number 1.  If you take Carson off of RIT they finish 6 at best.  Carson controls both ends of the floor.  He alters shots and eliminates second chance points on defense and scores on offense.  It's still very early in the empire 8 season and we will see how the games play out.  I'm excited to see what happens this Sunday.

    1) Of course Carson has a high field goal percentage. When you play inside, that's what you do. Take high percentage shots. His percentage is amazing, but he's making easier shots. Burton's three-point ability makes him a dual threat. That has to factor in. He can score inside and out.

    2) The Bombers' entire offense runs of off Burton. He sets the tempo, he makes the plays. It's part of being a point guard. You run the game. There's a degree of difficulty involved in that, and it's not simply measured in assists. It's like being the quarterback of a football team. Carson on the other hand, has to have others get him the ball. I'm not saying he's not a great player. But there are a lot of things that have to be set up for him to get the ball in a position to score. It ends with him. It starts with Burton. No-one else on that team could run that offense.

    3) Yes, IC has a better surrounding cast than RIT does, but again, that's what a good point guard can do. He can make others around him better.

    4) Carson is a defensive force, what with the blocked shots, but Burton is good on the defensive end as well, as evidenced by his steals.

    Ultimately, this is a tough one to call. When you have players who play in a completely different system and style, it's really apples to oranges. I doubt you could go wrong with either of them, and there's a lot of basketball to be played. I'd go with Burton, mostly because I believe you're asked to do more as a point guard. But both are phenominal players
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 08, 2009, 12:55:29 AM
    A few points, and I hope that I don't end up reiterating what Bomber798891 says:

    1) I think the fact that Burton's supporting cast is better is fairly irrelevant and probably a red herring in this discussion. I hate when people trot out the "well X has a better supporting cast than Y, therefore Y should win MVP/POY." If that's the case, those awards would always go to the best player on mediocre-to-pretty good teams, because you can always argue that the best player on the best team had better players around him.

    2) I really don't think it can be quantified just how much better Burton makes his teammates. Leahy and Cruz are good players, but would they be as good if Burton wasn't drawing defenses and getting them wide-open shots? Would Bostic be as good if Burton wasn't stretching defenses or penetrating and dishing to him for easy layups and dunks? He takes his supporting cast to that next level; without him, they're just another Ithaca team, pretty good but nothing special. Cruz, Bostic and Leahy are not markedly better than when IC had Bellis/Schultz/Roth or Riggins/Miller/Wallen. But Burton is the key. At the end of the season, I don't think this will be lost on the coaches and will probably be the difference for Burton.

    3) It comes down to the age old question of whether you'd rather have the dominating big guy or the unbelievable point guard? Chris Paul or Dwight Howard? Frankly, I will take the PG every time because he has the ball in his hands on every possession. Especially at this level, I think the point guard has more bearing on the outcome.

    Sunday will be a great challenge for Ithaca. Clark will be rocking (and full) for what should be a matchup of teams undefeated in the conference. I'd venture to say that this is Ithaca's biggest game to date, even larger than the St. Lawrence or Rochester games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 08, 2009, 01:21:53 AM
    To start, I'd like to say I completely agree with some of the Bomber faithful's points:


    1)  Burton does make this team go like no other point guard in the conference would. 

    *However, if you say "The Entire offense runs through Burton" because it starts with him..you have to acknowledge The Entire RIT offense runs through Carson as well.  Put another way, did the old New York Knicks offense run through Derek Harper just because he was the point guard?  No..it ran through Patrick Ewing.*


    2)  Just because you're supporting cast is better doesn't mean you are eliminated.


    3)  If i were STARTING a team, obviously you take the PG first.



    However, we've seen this debate before.  As it played out then, the "wow" factor won, which is why I believe if, right now, coaches had to vote, they would vote Carson.


    2005...NBA MVP Voting.

    Shaquille O'Neal EASILY should have won MVP over Steve Nash.  23 pts...10 rebounds..2.3 blocks..took his Miami Heat team from 42-40 the year before to #1 in the Eastern Conference. 


    Nash...15.5 pts...11.5 assists.  Very gawdy numbers.  Plus, it was in Mike D'Antoni's Seven Seconds Or Less [better known as LOSS backwards] system, something new and exciting, so it had that "WOW" factor.  The little guy running the show.  Taking over with the ball in his hands.



    Nash won the award, but it's very hard to argue that it shouldn't have gone to Shaq.  To give credence to Nash's numbers that year is to say Texas Tech quarterbacks, or all quarterbacks playing in those Run and Gun Systems, should win the Heisman, instead of acknowledging how great the system is (look at Nash now) for that player.



    I don't mean to say that Burton is a system player at all, because he'd be excellent anywhere.  But I think that Carson is the guy putting up the Shaq numbers...with the team turnaround...and in our case, he, unlike Burton, has the "wow" factor at the moment.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 08, 2009, 08:28:33 AM
    There's a lot of season left.  If Carson keeps up his torrid pace I'm sure we'll be spending plenty of time next month talking about this.

    GB15 -- I hope Eli falls and breaks a hip in practice today.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 08, 2009, 08:44:21 AM
    Every point made on this debate is valid. Remember the coaches vote on this and a big part of their decision is based on their gut. Yes the stats obviously and rightfully dictate the gut, but they also take those things that don't show up in the stats into consideration when voting. That being, which team's success depends more on the player, who handles themselves with dignity on the court, (hey if either of these guys did a touch down dance or an "in your face" move that coach would have second thoughts if it were close.) However these two guys are classy, which is part of makes them so good. I think the coaches, if they are even thinking about this, are glad they don't have to vote right now, and we all know how quickly things change in this conference. Listen if Hartwick finishes first I'm sure Coco will be a thought..... I know, I'm losing it now, but just a point. This game Sunday is huge for both programs. I believe the outcome will not effect IC's # 1 seed in the E-8 tourney, as the # 2 will have at least 4 loses, maybe more. IC won't. It will however effect their national ranking. On the other hand, this would solidify RIT as a real factor in the E-8, and move them up in the East region rankings. I'm really looking forward to this one. Unfortunately I am stuck down in the city this weekend. I will tune in however. Just being in a big game has me excited......  ;)      


         
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 09:00:41 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 08, 2009, 08:44:21 AM
    Every point made on this debate is valid. Remember the coaches vote on this and a big part of their decision is based on their gut. Yes the stats obviously and rightfully dictate the gut, but they also take those things that don't show up in the stats into consideration when voting. That being, which team's success depends more on the player, who handles themselves with dignity on the court, (hey if either of these guys did a touch down dance or an "in your face" move that coach would have second thoughts if it were close.) However these two guys are classy, which is part of makes them so good. I think the coaches, if they are even thinking about this, are glad they don't have to vote right now, and we all know how quickly things change in this conference. Listen if Hartwick finishes first I'm sure Coco will be a thought..... I know, I'm losing it now, but just a point. This game Sunday is huge for both programs. I believe the outcome will not effect IC's # 1 seed in the E-8 tourney, as the # 2 will have at least 4 loses, maybe more. IC won't. It will however effect their national ranking. On the other hand, this would solidify RIT as a real factor in the E-8, and move them up in the East region rankings. I'm really looking forward to this one. Unfortunately I am stuck down in the city this weekend. I will tune in however. Just being in a big game has me excited......  ;)      


         

    "But what do you know"..  C'mon man, coaches are looking for consistency!   ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 08, 2009, 11:49:54 AM
    Ehthelred, of course consistency is part of the equation, but the coaches, believe it or not, are human, and if it's a coin toss, the little things come into play. There is no science to their pick.....BUT all this means nothing right now, the whole season has to be reviewed. You are correct however, what do I know?  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 12:04:42 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 08, 2009, 11:49:54 AM
    Ehthelred, of course consistency is part of the equation, but the coaches, believe it or not, are human, and if it's a coin toss, the little things come into play. There is no science to their pick.....BUT all this means nothing right now, the whole season has to be reviewed. You are correct however, what do I know?  ;)

    I was just being a smart-ass (some say the most intellectual of my body parts), pointing out that for the first time, you did not use your signoff
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 08, 2009, 12:22:21 PM
    I have to go with Cason so far on this one.  1) his stats are unreal 20 pts and 20 boards in some games is rediculous.  2)  RIT is 5-0 in the conference which is unexpected, meaning Carson's contribution has made his team better than expected.   3)  Burton may get it at end of year depending on results of conference however, both teams are undefeated in conference and Carsons stats outweight Burtons in conference stats to date. 
    4)  Burton definately makes people better and probably is the best pg in the league this year however, bostic is the key guy some games, leahy key in others.  For RIT it is Carson day in and day out.  yes having a supporting cast hurts Burton a little bit and thats why you cant compare stat for stat.  Its like the old Fisher team when Sean o'brien got it and Jeff Sidney with only averaging 11-12 pts per game and you have others in the league scoring 20.  In the end the overall success of the teams is going to be the bigger factor.  If RIT stays in top 3 I think Carson will have a great chance in getting it.  If Ithaca completely runs away easily then someone from Ithaca has to get it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 08, 2009, 12:41:21 PM
    Ethelred you got me..... tough getting old, I have no idea why I left out my sign off, I guess I'll blame work........I don't know but to change course a little, I saw the Chase seeds. I think Naz is a little over-rated. Unless their early season woe's are over. They were on fire against Stevens, and who knows if that was just a one game deal or have they turned the corner. They still have that no "D" look to them. The Chase is going to turn over a lot of stones....... By next week we should have a good feel for the East region...But what do I ;) know   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on January 08, 2009, 12:49:56 PM
    Gotta go with Carson on this one, but ultimately it will probably go to Burton because I think Ithaca will end up winning the league and that will be the deciding factor. Carsons numbers have been rediculous and he has led RIT to a surprising start. Leading the nation in rebounding is quite a stat.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 12:51:42 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 08, 2009, 12:41:21 PM
    Ethelred you got me..... tough getting old, I have no idea why I left out my sign off, I guess I'll blame work........I don't know but to change course a little, I saw the Chase seeds. I think Naz is a little over-rated. Unless their early season woe's are over. They were on fire against Stevens, and who knows if that was just a one game deal or have they turned the corner. They still have that no "D" look to them. The Chase is going to turn over a lot of stones....... By next week we should have a good feel for the East region...But what do I ;) know   

    Where did you see the Chase seedings?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2009, 01:24:40 PM
    Couple of points from different posters to address:

    1) Good point that the Knicks didn't run their offense through their PG but through Ewing. Here's the thing though. Someone had to be there to get Ewing the ball. Ewing couldn't do it himself. Carson's not going to bring the ball up, shake a defender and pop a three on his own. Someone else has to bring it up, get him the ball in a position to score. 

    2) While Burton isn't the only guy on the Bombers who can score, part of the reason Leahy gets so many open looks is because you have to watch out for Burton. Same with Bostic. When you play the Bombers, you're not trying to shut down Leahy or Bostic. You're trying to shut down Burton.

    3) I've never liked the "He leads all of the divisions" in some stat argument. Stephanie Cleary of IC led all of the NCAA in steals one season, and I'm talking women and men. What does that mean though? That she was the best defender in the country? God no. She played against some teams that would probably lose by 20 to a good high school team. More doesn't equal better once you start crossing divisions. Dominant D-III players always look a little better because there's not a lot of elite competition. Look at Elmira. This team won 6 games in three seasons. You don't see that in D-IA, and if you do, it's not from major conferences. I don't see Nate Kmic getting any "He's the best RB in the country" talk because he had more yards than anyone else. You'd take him over a Shon Greene or Javon Ringer?

    4) I'm not sure how we can give Carson credit for RIT being an unexpected 5-0 in the E8 and not give the same credit to Burton for the Bombers having the best start and highest ranking in team history. Ithaca was supposed to be good, yes, but not THIS good. Did anyone else peg them at 11-0? Doubtful. #12 in the country?

    5) This may seem a little unfair, but honestly, how many D-III schools have a legitimate big men? Carson is 6-6, 240 according to the RIT site. How many guys are that big and get significant playing time? (Not counting the 310 pound kid at SJF who apparently never plays) I mean, based on size alone, Carson's got an advantage, simply because D-III lacks a lot of true big men
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 01:29:14 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2009, 01:24:40 PM
    Couple of points from different posters to address:

    1) Good point that the Knicks didn't run their offense through their PG but through Ewing. Here's the thing though. Someone had to be there to get Ewing the ball. Ewing couldn't do it himself. Carson's not going to bring the ball up, shake a defender and pop a three on his own. Someone else has to bring it up, get him the ball in a position to score. 

    2) While Burton isn't the only guy on the Bombers who can score, part of the reason Leahy gets so many open looks is because you have to watch out for Burton. Same with Bostic. When you play the Bombers, you're not trying to shut down Leahy or Bostic. You're trying to shut down Burton.

    3) I've never liked the "He leads all of the divisions" in some stat argument. Stephanie Cleary of IC led all of the NCAA in steals one season, and I'm talking women and men. What does that mean though? That she was the best defender in the country? God no. She played against some teams that would probably lose by 20 to a good high school team. More doesn't equal better once you start crossing divisions. Dominant D-III players always look a little better because there's not a lot of elite competition. Look at Elmira. This team won 6 games in three seasons. You don't see that in D-IA, and if you do, it's not from major conferences. I don't see Nate Kmic getting any "He's the best RB in the country" talk because he had more yards than anyone else. You'd take him over a Shon Greene or Javon Ringer?

    4) I'm not sure how we can give Carson credit for RIT being an unexpected 5-0 in the E8 and not give the same credit to Burton for the Bombers having the best start and highest ranking in team history. Ithaca was supposed to be good, yes, but not THIS good. Did anyone else peg them at 11-0? Doubtful. #12 in the country?

    5) This may seem a little unfair, but honestly, how many D-III schools have a legitimate big men? Carson is 6-6, 240 according to the RIT site. How many guys are that big and get significant playing time? (Not counting the 310 pound kid at SJF who apparently never plays) I mean, based on size alone, Carson's got an advantage, simply because D-III lacks a lot of true big men

    Isn't that kind of like saying Burton enjoys an unfair advantage because he's a teriffic shooter and the DIII teams around here play defense like my dead Aunt Martha or Pedrito de Portugal?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 08, 2009, 01:42:59 PM
    Ethelred..
    Mea Culpa! I didn't see seedings, and shouldn't have referred to seeds, it was banter amongst some RIT and Stevens guys... their seed opinions, told you I was getting old, just goes to show you, what do I know  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 01:46:56 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 08, 2009, 01:42:59 PM
    Ethelred..
    Mea Culpa! I didn't see seedings, and shouldn't have referred to seeds, it was banter amongst some RIT and Stevens guys... their seed opinions, told you I was getting old, just goes to show you, what do I know  ;)

    Damn!  Had my heart beating just a little faster there for a minute.  Nothing quite like the Chase.  Was new to it last year and am a believer.  I hear UR will miss the dinner and seeding announcement as they are coming back from a game at NYU, so as soon as anyone hears anything, I'd appreciate a post.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Nosyor on January 08, 2009, 02:58:43 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2009, 01:24:40 PM
    Couple of points from different posters to address:

    1) Good point that the Knicks didn't run their offense through their PG but through Ewing. Here's the thing though. Someone had to be there to get Ewing the ball. Ewing couldn't do it himself. Carson's not going to bring the ball up, shake a defender and pop a three on his own. Someone else has to bring it up, get him the ball in a position to score. 

    2) While Burton isn't the only guy on the Bombers who can score, part of the reason Leahy gets so many open looks is because you have to watch out for Burton. Same with Bostic. When you play the Bombers, you're not trying to shut down Leahy or Bostic. You're trying to shut down Burton.

    3) I've never liked the "He leads all of the divisions" in some stat argument. Stephanie Cleary of IC led all of the NCAA in steals one season, and I'm talking women and men. What does that mean though? That she was the best defender in the country? God no. She played against some teams that would probably lose by 20 to a good high school team. More doesn't equal better once you start crossing divisions. Dominant D-III players always look a little better because there's not a lot of elite competition. Look at Elmira. This team won 6 games in three seasons. You don't see that in D-IA, and if you do, it's not from major conferences. I don't see Nate Kmic getting any "He's the best RB in the country" talk because he had more yards than anyone else. You'd take him over a Shon Greene or Javon Ringer?

    4) I'm not sure how we can give Carson credit for RIT being an unexpected 5-0 in the E8 and not give the same credit to Burton for the Bombers having the best start and highest ranking in team history. Ithaca was supposed to be good, yes, but not THIS good. Did anyone else peg them at 11-0? Doubtful. #12 in the country?

    5) This may seem a little unfair, but honestly, how many D-III schools have a legitimate big men? Carson is 6-6, 240 according to the RIT site. How many guys are that big and get significant playing time? (Not counting the 310 pound kid at SJF who apparently never plays) I mean, based on size alone, Carson's got an advantage, simply because D-III lacks a lot of true big men

    Bombers I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with a few of your points. 

    1) Just because someone else brings the ball up does not mean he relys on other people to get the ball in a scoring position (although it definately helps).  I remember a coach once telling some big men that I have played with, "So the point won't give you the ball, what are you going to do?" after no response the coach said, "You're going to attack the rim and get the ball."

    Currently Carson is averaging about 5 offensive rebounds a game.  That's 5 possessions where he obtains the ball adjacent to the hoop (essentially either a foul or bucket).  He isn't a player like Carmelo Anthony that gets no rebounds and needs someone to pass him the ball to score.  If you don't pass Carson the ball, he'll find a way to get it in his hands and put it in the hoop.

    2) I'm not sure your point with how teams gear in on stopping Burton.  Of course they do, otherwise we wouldn't be having this debate on Burton and Carson.  I think it is a moot point and the focus of every coach's gameplan is to "slow" down Burton or Carson.  If the argument is who makes their teammates better, it is very difficult to say.

    On one hand, Burton always has the ball and his hand which means he can easily find his teammates.  It is very easy to see how a point guard has a positive effect on the rest of the players on his team.

    On the other hand, Carson doesn't always have the ball in his hand which is sometimes as dangerous as when it is in his hand.  What I mean by that is that the amount of attention he commands at all times can open up the floor for the rest of his teammates.  When Carson doesn't have the ball you need to have one defender in front denying and a weak side defender 1 to 2 steps further in then normal.  This creates additional time for a shooter on the weakside to get his shot off.  When Carson does have the ball...well, I'm not really sure what you do.  You could double team and leave someone open for a shot or you can play him straight up and hope he doesn't foul out every single one of your big men.  My point is that it isn't as readily identifiable to see the affect Carson has on the rest of his teammates.  That is why I implore you all to watch how RIT plays with and without Carson on the floor.  Do the same with Ithaca and Burton.

    4) I think much of this point has to do with last year.  Ithaca finished first in the conference and returned everyone of value.  Is it really that much of a surprise they are 11-0?  Not to me...yes I think 10-1 or 9-2 would be more realistic of a projection, but are we really that surprised this team is winning all their games?  RIT on teh other hand finished 6th last year and lost a few legitmate ball players.  So in my opinion, yes it is quite a surprise RIT is 5-0 in the conference.

    5) I'd have to agree with you on this one.  Even U of R doesn't have the big men they've had in the past and Carson looked like a man against boys vs them.  There just aren't enough big bodies around to give him competition. 

    We all know there is no answer to this debate at this point in the season (may not be an answer at the end of the season) but it sure is fun to talk about.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 08, 2009, 03:24:06 PM
    I don't think Ithaca's pre-season expectations or supporting cast should be a factor in this analysis. It really should play no part. Besides, we may have expected Ithaca to be good, but undefeated and ranked in the top 15? I don't think so. And beating good teams on the road and bum rushing everyone else is a little bit of a surprise. RIT is 5-0 in the E8, but 7-3 overall. That's pretty good, but we shouldn't be stopping the presses for that record, especially with no teams of much renown on the schedule thus far, save for a down UR club and a young Fisher team. That RIT finished 6th last year isn't much to me, especially when you consider that they would've made the E8 Tourney if they didn't get swept by Hartwick. Sure, they lost some good players. That's what happens when you have a 15-man rotation. I kid, but you get the point. RIT still had quite a bit of talent returning this year (Carson, E8 ROY Shane Foster, Korinchak, Sweet, et al).

    I look forward to seeing Bostic and Carson go at it this weekend. These were their numbers from the two matchups last year:

    Carson: 13.5 ppg, 12 rpg, 60% FG, 1.0 bpg
    Bostic: 13.5 ppg, 16 rpg, 83.3% FG, 1.5 bpg
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 03:55:11 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 08, 2009, 02:58:43 PM

    5) I'd have to agree with you on this one.  Even U of R doesn't have the big men they've had in the past and Carson looked like a man against boys vs them.  There just aren't enough big bodies around to give him competition. 

    They were, in fact kids.  The three players that rotated through the "big" spots for UR were two freshman and a soph.  Are they Ndubizu and Onyiriuka?  No.  But they managed 30 and 8 on 11/13 shooting.  They're going to be fine.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2009, 06:39:22 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 01:29:14 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2009, 01:24:40 PM
    Couple of points from different posters to address:

    1) Good point that the Knicks didn't run their offense through their PG but through Ewing. Here's the thing though. Someone had to be there to get Ewing the ball. Ewing couldn't do it himself. Carson's not going to bring the ball up, shake a defender and pop a three on his own. Someone else has to bring it up, get him the ball in a position to score. 

    2) While Burton isn't the only guy on the Bombers who can score, part of the reason Leahy gets so many open looks is because you have to watch out for Burton. Same with Bostic. When you play the Bombers, you're not trying to shut down Leahy or Bostic. You're trying to shut down Burton.

    3) I've never liked the "He leads all of the divisions" in some stat argument. Stephanie Cleary of IC led all of the NCAA in steals one season, and I'm talking women and men. What does that mean though? That she was the best defender in the country? God no. She played against some teams that would probably lose by 20 to a good high school team. More doesn't equal better once you start crossing divisions. Dominant D-III players always look a little better because there's not a lot of elite competition. Look at Elmira. This team won 6 games in three seasons. You don't see that in D-IA, and if you do, it's not from major conferences. I don't see Nate Kmic getting any "He's the best RB in the country" talk because he had more yards than anyone else. You'd take him over a Shon Greene or Javon Ringer?

    4) I'm not sure how we can give Carson credit for RIT being an unexpected 5-0 in the E8 and not give the same credit to Burton for the Bombers having the best start and highest ranking in team history. Ithaca was supposed to be good, yes, but not THIS good. Did anyone else peg them at 11-0? Doubtful. #12 in the country?

    5) This may seem a little unfair, but honestly, how many D-III schools have a legitimate big men? Carson is 6-6, 240 according to the RIT site. How many guys are that big and get significant playing time? (Not counting the 310 pound kid at SJF who apparently never plays) I mean, based on size alone, Carson's got an advantage, simply because D-III lacks a lot of true big men

    Isn't that kind of like saying Burton enjoys an unfair advantage because he's a teriffic shooter and the DIII teams around here play defense like my dead Aunt Martha or Pedrito de Portugal?

    1) No, because shooting is a skill you can work on and improve. Being 6-6, 240 is something you're born with (Not literally, but you know what I mean) I mean, if Carson spent 3-4 hours a day working on his jump shooting ability, he'd be able to do more offensively. Burton's not going to grow 10 inches or add on 60 pounds of pure muscle and be able to play inside.

    2) Bad defenses affect everyone. I'd say it's harder to find a good defensive big man than guard on the D-3 level, but certainly Burton's not enjoying an advantage.

    3) The poster who mentioned Carson's offensive rebounds makes a good point, but even if he puts in all five of those, it's about half of his scoring average. As they said, the rest of the time, it's someone else setting the table

    4) Both players certainly have an affect on those around them, it's likely just harder to quantify with Carson than Burton.

    5) But you can't say Ithaca would be fine without him. They weren't last season:

    A) Plays only six minutes against Stevens, Bombers lose by nine
    B) Misses St. Lawrence game, Bombers fall at home to 1-4 Saints.

    6) RIT's 5-0 in conference with the following wins:

    at Alfred, at Naz, home against Elmira, Utica and SJF

    That's not bad, but how is it unexpected? Last season, the beat SJF, Elmira and Utica at home, and Alfred on the road. The only difference is they lost at Nazareth last season and won there this season. Naz was 20-8 last year and are 2-7 this season. So essentially, RIT has gone 5-0 in games they went 4-1 in last season, with the only difference being that Naz looks terrible this season. That can't really qualify as terribly unexpected can it? Beating a bad Nazareth team?

    Ithaca has gone 8-0 out of conference, after going 5-4 out of conference last season. Common opponents thus far:

    2008: Win against Cortland and Oneonta State, loss to St. Lawrence and Hobart, still have Potsdam to play.

    So IC has flipped the St. Lawrence game and Hobart game. Hobart's terrible, but St. Lawrence is 6-3 and solid. The St. Lawrence game was on the road. Also, they've defeated a Sweet 16 team from last season on the road that is currently 7-2, handing them their only home loss of the season so far. That also has to be unexpected.

    Yeah, Ithaca was expected to be good, but this is the same team that got obliterated on their home court in the E8 tourney. Also, RIT was 8-8 in conference, but of those 8, 6 were by six points or less and one was in overtime. The only game they really lost big time was at Stevens by 14. They had some close wins, but also wins by 14, 12, 20, 15 and 15. They were probably closer to 11-5 than 5-11.

    I guess RIT struck me as a solid team that lost a lot of close games. IC didn't seem as snakebitten, and certainly, the E8 game was a disaster and a half.

    I think what we can take away from this very engaging debate is that both players are excellent, they're probably the Top 2 players in the E8, and really, you can't go wrong with either of them. We'll know more when 25 games are played however
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 08, 2009, 07:19:30 PM
    I think Bomber hit the nail right on the head with his 4th point about it being harder to quantify Carson's impact on his teammates compared to Burton.


    With Burton, it's out there.  You see the assists, the way he runs the offense, the times he stops for the 3...all of these things are very noticeable by the nature of the position.


    With Carson, his impact is the way he gets doubled in the post, the way he passes out, the way he rebounds, but even more so is some of the stuff you can't quantify...the way guys can pressure the ball knowing Carson is behind them..or the way guards get away with bad post entries because of how he seals on the block.  Hell, even the way he sets that hard screen so that his teammate gets an open layup.  Carson's contributions to making teammates look better are things that show up a lot more on tape than just watching or looking at numbers.



    That said, more importantly tonight...GO GATORS!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 07:36:50 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2009, 06:39:22 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 01:29:14 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2009, 01:24:40 PM
    Couple of points from different posters to address:

    1) Good point that the Knicks didn't run their offense through their PG but through Ewing. Here's the thing though. Someone had to be there to get Ewing the ball. Ewing couldn't do it himself. Carson's not going to bring the ball up, shake a defender and pop a three on his own. Someone else has to bring it up, get him the ball in a position to score. 

    2) While Burton isn't the only guy on the Bombers who can score, part of the reason Leahy gets so many open looks is because you have to watch out for Burton. Same with Bostic. When you play the Bombers, you're not trying to shut down Leahy or Bostic. You're trying to shut down Burton.

    3) I've never liked the "He leads all of the divisions" in some stat argument. Stephanie Cleary of IC led all of the NCAA in steals one season, and I'm talking women and men. What does that mean though? That she was the best defender in the country? God no. She played against some teams that would probably lose by 20 to a good high school team. More doesn't equal better once you start crossing divisions. Dominant D-III players always look a little better because there's not a lot of elite competition. Look at Elmira. This team won 6 games in three seasons. You don't see that in D-IA, and if you do, it's not from major conferences. I don't see Nate Kmic getting any "He's the best RB in the country" talk because he had more yards than anyone else. You'd take him over a Shon Greene or Javon Ringer?

    4) I'm not sure how we can give Carson credit for RIT being an unexpected 5-0 in the E8 and not give the same credit to Burton for the Bombers having the best start and highest ranking in team history. Ithaca was supposed to be good, yes, but not THIS good. Did anyone else peg them at 11-0? Doubtful. #12 in the country?

    5) This may seem a little unfair, but honestly, how many D-III schools have a legitimate big men? Carson is 6-6, 240 according to the RIT site. How many guys are that big and get significant playing time? (Not counting the 310 pound kid at SJF who apparently never plays) I mean, based on size alone, Carson's got an advantage, simply because D-III lacks a lot of true big men

    Isn't that kind of like saying Burton enjoys an unfair advantage because he's a teriffic shooter and the DIII teams around here play defense like my dead Aunt Martha or Pedrito de Portugal?

    1) No, because shooting is a skill you can work on and improve. Being 6-6, 240 is something you're born with (Not literally, but you know what I mean) I mean, if Carson spent 3-4 hours a day working on his jump shooting ability, he'd be able to do more offensively. Burton's not going to grow 10 inches or add on 60 pounds of pure muscle and be able to play inside.

    2) Bad defenses affect everyone. I'd say it's harder to find a good defensive big man than guard on the D-3 level, but certainly Burton's not enjoying an advantage.

    3) The poster who mentioned Carson's offensive rebounds makes a good point, but even if he puts in all five of those, it's about half of his scoring average. As they said, the rest of the time, it's someone else setting the table

    4) Both players certainly have an affect on those around them, it's likely just harder to quantify with Carson than Burton.

    5) But you can't say Ithaca would be fine without him. They weren't last season:

    A) Plays only six minutes against Stevens, Bombers lose by nine
    B) Misses St. Lawrence game, Bombers fall at home to 1-4 Saints.

    6) RIT's 5-0 in conference with the following wins:

    at Alfred, at Naz, home against Elmira, Utica and SJF

    That's not bad, but how is it unexpected? Last season, the beat SJF, Elmira and Utica at home, and Alfred on the road. The only difference is they lost at Nazareth last season and won there this season. Naz was 20-8 last year and are 2-7 this season. So essentially, RIT has gone 5-0 in games they went 4-1 in last season, with the only difference being that Naz looks terrible this season. That can't really qualify as terribly unexpected can it? Beating a bad Nazareth team?

    Ithaca has gone 8-0 out of conference, after going 5-4 out of conference last season. Common opponents thus far:

    2008: Win against Cortland and Oneonta State, loss to St. Lawrence and Hobart, still have Potsdam to play.

    So IC has flipped the St. Lawrence game and Hobart game. Hobart's terrible, but St. Lawrence is 6-3 and solid. The St. Lawrence game was on the road. Also, they've defeated a Sweet 16 team from last season on the road that is currently 7-2, handing them their only home loss of the season so far. That also has to be unexpected.

    Yeah, Ithaca was expected to be good, but this is the same team that got obliterated on their home court in the E8 tourney. Also, RIT was 8-8 in conference, but of those 8, 6 were by six points or less and one was in overtime. The only game they really lost big time was at Stevens by 14. They had some close wins, but also wins by 14, 12, 20, 15 and 15. They were probably closer to 11-5 than 5-11.

    I guess RIT struck me as a solid team that lost a lot of close games. IC didn't seem as snakebitten, and certainly, the E8 game was a disaster and a half.

    I think what we can take away from this very engaging debate is that both players are excellent, they're probably the Top 2 players in the E8, and really, you can't go wrong with either of them. We'll know more when 25 games are played however

    I don't necessairily disagree with you on any of your points.  I don't have a lot of rooting interest in either RIT or Ithaca, though I have a nephew at the former and know one of the players on the latter.  However, I would point out that being 6'6" and 240 doesn't mean squat if you don't have touch.  With the amount of pounding guys like him take, I know it takes a lot more than just size to be effective. And it looks like Carson has worked his ass off on his footwork and his ability to take a hit and finish.  I'd say both guys have spent a good deal of time working on their game.

    And while the win over UR was nice, I don't think you can really call it unexpected.  IC had a pretty veteran club and UR had 2 seniors (only 2 on the team), 2 sophs and a freshman in the starting lineup.  The game was UR's second - IC's 4th.  IC made 2 more 3's and 7 more FT's, but the stats were pretty even.  Not taking anything away from IC because they deserved to win.  But I don't think you can call it unexpected.  Now, if they had beaten LAST years UR team,  that would have been unexpected   8)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 09, 2009, 12:23:49 AM
    In this debate I have to cast my vote for Burton. Being that I played with both Burton and Bostic and I was a big man in college, I can attribute to the true value of the Point Guard at this level. When Fisher was really good and going deep in the NCAA's they had O'Brien as their point guard. O'Brien controlled that team on the floor and ran there offense, Burton is that player but with a better set of skills. Guard play is so much more important at this level. The player doesn't have to be a point guard, but can even a point forward, someone who runs the time and controls the flow of the game. For example, look at Stevens last year with Waleed and this year without him.

    My last point, is not a knock on Carson, because he has improved so much and has become a great player. However, I believe if you were to put Bostic on that RIT team right now, he would be putting up big numbers like Carson is doing, maybe not as good a FG %, but he would have 20 PPG and I believe he could get 20 boards a night. I have even talked to players on other teams in the conference (not Ithaca) who agree with my point: Carson is a great player, but it is magnified because of the lack of talent around him (no matter how good he makes them look) and the great job the coach is doing using Carson to get the Ws.  All in all I think the debate is very premature and with this weird conference schedule you never know what can happen. It will be a great match-up this weekend, I wish I could see it. Go Bombers!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2009, 01:05:14 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 07:36:50 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2009, 06:39:22 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 01:29:14 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2009, 01:24:40 PM
    Couple of points from different posters to address:

    1) Good point that the Knicks didn't run their offense through their PG but through Ewing. Here's the thing though. Someone had to be there to get Ewing the ball. Ewing couldn't do it himself. Carson's not going to bring the ball up, shake a defender and pop a three on his own. Someone else has to bring it up, get him the ball in a position to score. 

    2) While Burton isn't the only guy on the Bombers who can score, part of the reason Leahy gets so many open looks is because you have to watch out for Burton. Same with Bostic. When you play the Bombers, you're not trying to shut down Leahy or Bostic. You're trying to shut down Burton.

    3) I've never liked the "He leads all of the divisions" in some stat argument. Stephanie Cleary of IC led all of the NCAA in steals one season, and I'm talking women and men. What does that mean though? That she was the best defender in the country? God no. She played against some teams that would probably lose by 20 to a good high school team. More doesn't equal better once you start crossing divisions. Dominant D-III players always look a little better because there's not a lot of elite competition. Look at Elmira. This team won 6 games in three seasons. You don't see that in D-IA, and if you do, it's not from major conferences. I don't see Nate Kmic getting any "He's the best RB in the country" talk because he had more yards than anyone else. You'd take him over a Shon Greene or Javon Ringer?

    4) I'm not sure how we can give Carson credit for RIT being an unexpected 5-0 in the E8 and not give the same credit to Burton for the Bombers having the best start and highest ranking in team history. Ithaca was supposed to be good, yes, but not THIS good. Did anyone else peg them at 11-0? Doubtful. #12 in the country?

    5) This may seem a little unfair, but honestly, how many D-III schools have a legitimate big men? Carson is 6-6, 240 according to the RIT site. How many guys are that big and get significant playing time? (Not counting the 310 pound kid at SJF who apparently never plays) I mean, based on size alone, Carson's got an advantage, simply because D-III lacks a lot of true big men

    Isn't that kind of like saying Burton enjoys an unfair advantage because he's a teriffic shooter and the DIII teams around here play defense like my dead Aunt Martha or Pedrito de Portugal?

    1) No, because shooting is a skill you can work on and improve. Being 6-6, 240 is something you're born with (Not literally, but you know what I mean) I mean, if Carson spent 3-4 hours a day working on his jump shooting ability, he'd be able to do more offensively. Burton's not going to grow 10 inches or add on 60 pounds of pure muscle and be able to play inside.

    2) Bad defenses affect everyone. I'd say it's harder to find a good defensive big man than guard on the D-3 level, but certainly Burton's not enjoying an advantage.

    3) The poster who mentioned Carson's offensive rebounds makes a good point, but even if he puts in all five of those, it's about half of his scoring average. As they said, the rest of the time, it's someone else setting the table

    4) Both players certainly have an affect on those around them, it's likely just harder to quantify with Carson than Burton.

    5) But you can't say Ithaca would be fine without him. They weren't last season:

    A) Plays only six minutes against Stevens, Bombers lose by nine
    B) Misses St. Lawrence game, Bombers fall at home to 1-4 Saints.

    6) RIT's 5-0 in conference with the following wins:

    at Alfred, at Naz, home against Elmira, Utica and SJF

    That's not bad, but how is it unexpected? Last season, the beat SJF, Elmira and Utica at home, and Alfred on the road. The only difference is they lost at Nazareth last season and won there this season. Naz was 20-8 last year and are 2-7 this season. So essentially, RIT has gone 5-0 in games they went 4-1 in last season, with the only difference being that Naz looks terrible this season. That can't really qualify as terribly unexpected can it? Beating a bad Nazareth team?

    Ithaca has gone 8-0 out of conference, after going 5-4 out of conference last season. Common opponents thus far:

    2008: Win against Cortland and Oneonta State, loss to St. Lawrence and Hobart, still have Potsdam to play.

    So IC has flipped the St. Lawrence game and Hobart game. Hobart's terrible, but St. Lawrence is 6-3 and solid. The St. Lawrence game was on the road. Also, they've defeated a Sweet 16 team from last season on the road that is currently 7-2, handing them their only home loss of the season so far. That also has to be unexpected.

    Yeah, Ithaca was expected to be good, but this is the same team that got obliterated on their home court in the E8 tourney. Also, RIT was 8-8 in conference, but of those 8, 6 were by six points or less and one was in overtime. The only game they really lost big time was at Stevens by 14. They had some close wins, but also wins by 14, 12, 20, 15 and 15. They were probably closer to 11-5 than 5-11.

    I guess RIT struck me as a solid team that lost a lot of close games. IC didn't seem as snakebitten, and certainly, the E8 game was a disaster and a half.

    I think what we can take away from this very engaging debate is that both players are excellent, they're probably the Top 2 players in the E8, and really, you can't go wrong with either of them. We'll know more when 25 games are played however

    I don't necessairily disagree with you on any of your points.  I don't have a lot of rooting interest in either RIT or Ithaca, though I have a nephew at the former and know one of the players on the latter.  However, I would point out that being 6'6" and 240 doesn't mean squat if you don't have touch.  With the amount of pounding guys like him take, I know it takes a lot more than just size to be effective. And it looks like Carson has worked his ass off on his footwork and his ability to take a hit and finish.  I'd say both guys have spent a good deal of time working on their game.

    And while the win over UR was nice, I don't think you can really call it unexpected.  IC had a pretty veteran club and UR had 2 seniors (only 2 on the team), 2 sophs and a freshman in the starting lineup.  The game was UR's second - IC's 4th.  IC made 2 more 3's and 7 more FT's, but the stats were pretty even.  Not taking anything away from IC because they deserved to win.  But I don't think you can call it unexpected.  Now, if they had beaten LAST years UR team,  that would have been unexpected   8)

    Fair point on the Rochester game. I confess to not knowing as much about them as I do IC. I suppose you could be right. The interesting thing about that game is that UR shot better from the floor, from 3 and from the line, they just shot a lot less.

    Of course Carson works hard. If I implied he was just some big oaf, I'm sorry. I guess I just mean that, as the saying goes "You can't coach size". There's obviously a great deal of skill and pounding going on down low, but I think it helps to be bigger than everyone else.

    There is an interesting debate brought up by squadron. Replace Carson with Bostic and Burton with [insert RIT point guard here]. What team is better off then?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on January 09, 2009, 01:23:35 AM
    Wanna tick everyone off?  Co-players of the year!   From distant position - who has played the more difficult schedule?  Edge goes to Burton and therefore has probably has faced better defense.  I know that Sharlow (pg at SLU is very good) and Burton willed his team to victory down the stretch while playing against him.  I feel that the tougher schedule would be the deciding factor for my co-player of the year vote! :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 09, 2009, 08:19:45 AM
    I'm getting dizzy, and bombers, you really are bursting my bubble with your very accurate analysis of why RIT thus far is not so surprising. Unfortunatley your right, we are not really excelling as much as I thought thus far.... I don't really think we can say one is better than the other since they play two different positions on two totally different teams. I am glad both are in the E-8 and both are very good..... Both teams would suffer without big time without them. Here's a question that might be relevant to this is some strange round about way. In Stevens case, what do they miss more, a center or a point guard.  I know it's not relevant to Burton and Carson as Stecvens had neither, BUT which position is hurting them more. They don't have the consistency of a big who can rebound and score, sans Williams, and their current point guard is certainly not making anyone on the court better, as a matter of fact, I'll bet Grey wishes he had Greco back.  Not so much Walleed ( Apologize for spelling),
    as Walleed liked scoring and sometimes looked to create his own shot rather than find Grey.  But my point is, what does Stevens miss most, the point or the center, you can only pick one.  I know they miss both... That being said, this weekends RIT IC game should certainly aluminate some of the opinions one way or the other. But what do I know ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 09, 2009, 09:18:47 AM
    I agree with Nosyer on all of his points.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 09, 2009, 11:30:34 AM
    Re: What Stevens is lacking?

    I think this is a no-brainer, they desperately miss Waleed Farid. He was their do-everything guy. He was a primary ballhandler and always seemed a lock to be at least a 10-5-5 guy each game, in addition to playing good defense. He gave them a second scorer who could get his own shot, something that Passalacqua can't seem to do. The defense can now focus on Gray, play no-help defense on Passalacqua and really limit the Stevens attack. Also, Farid was a guy you felt comfortable with when he had the ball in his hands during the deciding minutes. Williams was a nice player, but I don't think Stevens ever used him properly. We're seeing how much they miss Farid. They still have a nice homecourt advantage, so they're far from out of the race. But they need to start playing better.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 09, 2009, 12:15:55 PM
    One man's guess at this weekend's results:

    FRIDAY

    Alfred (63) at Hartwick (73)
    Fisher (61) at Utica (66)
    Nazareth (82) at Ithaca (101)

    I'm intrigued by the Hartwick-Alfred game. Both teams are improved. I'll give the edge to the homestanding Hawks. I think tonight's game is a must-win for Utica. They can't afford to go 0-3 and take a home loss to a team with whom they'll be competing for an E8 Tourney berth. I think Utica survives, for now, against a youthful Fisher club. This is a tough matchup for Naz. They want to run, but I'm not sure they want to get into a high-tempo game against Ithaca. The Bombers have too much firepower for the Golden Flyers.

    SATURDAY

    Alfred (65) at Utica (69)

    Tough place to play for the Saxons. I think Utica takes a close one.

    SUNDAY

    Fisher (77) at Elmira (65)
    Ithaca (83) at RIT (81)

    Fisher should win fairly easily. That brings us to the game of the weekend: Ithaca at RIT. Ithaca seems to win at Clark and RIT seems to play Ithaca better at The Bulb. I think Ithaca will step up their game in front of a full house in a game for early conference supremacy. I'm guessing Burton gets to the line late in the game and IC makes just enough defensive stops. It should be a great game.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Nosyor on January 09, 2009, 04:45:26 PM
    Friday

    Alfred (68) at Hartwick (71)
    Fisher (66) at Utica (69)
    Nazareth (75) at Ithaca (87)

    I think the first two games are a toss up.  I don't want to sound cliche but I think it really comes down to which teams play harder.  Nazareth has yet to beat anyone and Ithaca has yet to lose to anyone, no reason to think that will change tonight.

    Alfred (60) at Utica (69)

    Utica always plays tough at home and even though they are 3-5, none of their losses are to very bad teams.  Alfred: I have yet to see enough out Alfred to give them a win on the road.

    Fisher (71) at Elmira (54)
    Ithaca (81) at RIT (71)

    Fisher wins handily.  While I am an RIT fan and a Mark Carson for MVP supporter. I do not think they have enough fire power for this one.  Ithaca has a lot of scorers and I'm not sure RIT can keep up that pace.  They will need to have a very good shooting night especially from 3.  But who knows, maybe the young guys will be jacked up for the big crowd and they'll play better then anyone knew they could.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 09, 2009, 09:05:13 PM
    Bombers up 62-40 at half. Can they hang 120 on Naz?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 09, 2009, 09:29:17 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 09, 2009, 09:05:13 PM
    Bombers up 62-40 at half. Can they hang 120 on Naz?

    They now lead 96-67 and there's still 9:03 left. At this rate 130 isn't out of the question.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 09, 2009, 09:45:37 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 09, 2009, 09:29:17 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 09, 2009, 09:05:13 PM
    Bombers up 62-40 at half. Can they hang 120 on Naz?

    They now lead 96-67 and there's still 9:03 left. At this rate 130 isn't out of the question.

    122-90, Bombers. They pulled up and yanked the starters with about 7 mins left, if I remember correctly.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 09, 2009, 09:51:50 PM
    Freshman Jordan Marcus with 25 off the bench, including 5-10 from distance. Burton with 17 pts, 14 assts and 4 rebs. Bostic with 13 pts and 15 rebs in 28 mins of play. Leahy (17), Ruffrage (11), and Cruz (10) also in double figures.

    Corey MacAdam was the only one who got off the bus for the Golden Flyers, going for 23 pts, 8 rebs and 5 assts. Man, Naz is bad. They aren't going to the E8 Tourney if they don't learn to play some semblance of defense.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 09, 2009, 10:24:28 PM
    ST. John Fisher wins on the road 48-46 over Utica.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2009, 10:35:51 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 09, 2009, 10:24:28 PM
    ST. John Fisher wins on the road 48-46 over Utica.

    How does SJF keep putting up these absurdly low scores? I don't think IC's going to have much trouble with them...

    Naz is terrible on defense. They don't even try. IC would have scored 135 if they'd left starters in.

    Burton was unbelievable tonight, as was Marcus. Ithaca just keeps rolling along...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 09, 2009, 10:48:13 PM
    Fisher down by 14 early in the 1st half at 18-4 but comes all the way back to tie it at 24 to end the period. 2nd half was back and forth battle that saw 6 lead changes and 2 ties. Cardinals gained the upper hand on a 3 ball by Brandon Witte to go up 45-43 with 1:40 left. Pioneers misfire on next 2 possessions and forced to foul. Matt Newman makes both FT's and Fisher extends lead to 47-43. Utica's Doug Herring get a bucket and 1 to close to 47-46 with 4 secs left. Witte is fouled and makes 1 of 2 for the final margin.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 09, 2009, 10:53:57 PM
    Incredible how many points IC can score. It blows my mind. Since I have been following Fisher I can remember about 4 times they have topped 100 (2 of them with overtime). IC has scored 118, 112, and now 122 in regulation this season. That is absurd. I am starting to think IC has a chance to go undefeated through the regular season. Still a very tall order to complete, but no one seems to be close this year.
    Any thoughts on the comparisons between this IC team, and the Fisher team that went 27-0?

    I still think the Fisher team that went 26-4 the year after the 27-0 season was the best team in the region in a long, long time, but this IC team continues to impress.

    Fisher struggles to score again, but plays good enough defnese to win on the road.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 09, 2009, 11:01:25 PM
    It looks like Pep will have 1 week to strike up the band when Alfred takes on Stevens next Friday the 16th at McLane. Saxons even their record at 6-6 with an 89-82 win over Hartwick.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 09, 2009, 11:05:25 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2009, 10:35:51 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 09, 2009, 10:24:28 PM
    ST. John Fisher wins on the road 48-46 over Utica.

    How does SJF keep putting up these absurdly low scores? I don't think IC's going to have much trouble with them...

    Naz is terrible on defense. They don't even try. IC would have scored 135 if they'd left starters in. Burton was unbelievable tonight, as was Marcus. Ithaca just keeps rolling along...

    They gave up 81 shots to IC and IC gave up 87 to them.?.?.?   Like I said before, defense like Pedrito de Portugal.  Must have been fun to watch though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2009, 11:12:21 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 09, 2009, 10:53:57 PM
    Incredible how many points IC can score. It blows my mind. Since I have been following Fisher I can remember about 4 times they have topped 100 (2 of them with overtime). IC has scored 118, 112, and now 122 in regulation this season. That is absurd. I am starting to think IC has a chance to go undefeated through the regular season. Still a very tall order to complete, but no one seems to be close this year.
    Any thoughts on the comparisons between this IC team, and the Fisher team that went 27-0?

    I still think the Fisher team that went 26-4 the year after the 27-0 season was the best team in the region in a long, long time, but this IC team continues to impress.

    Fisher struggles to score again, but plays good enough defnese to win on the road.

    Cards--

    Talked to an IC coach who thinks 23-2 in the regular season is more likely. He thinks Potsdam may be dangerous because it's a random OOC game that they may have trouble getting up for. He also said SJF may give them some trouble on the road.

    Honestly, the 122 is nasty, but it was Naz. This team ranks 388 out of 394 in scoring defense. They're just not good. The Bombers hae weapons, but Elmira, Hobart and Naz aren't benchmarks for offensive success. That being said, it's nice to know the Bombers aren't going to trip up against weaker teams.

    IC and Naz shot a lot because the game was high tempo. I don't think the shot clock dropped below 10 all game. IC also hit 28 free throws. It was interesting to watch, I don't know if fun is the word though. Naz really only had two guys with big games.

    I don't think we should look at any game Naz plays as a microcosim of D-III.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 10, 2009, 12:35:14 AM
    All in all I think it was an exciting night of E8 basketball. Fisher wins a tight game, IC scores 122, and a modest upset with AU over Hartwick. Should only get better with RIT and IC playing on Sunday.

    I think the AU/Utica game may turn out to be a very interesting game, with the outcome having some major implications on who makes the tourny as a 4 seed and who is just left out. I think Utica, AU, Hartwick are all fighting for that last spot in the tourny right now. It is always important to win that first matchup and guarantee yourself at least a split in the regular season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 10, 2009, 10:16:18 AM
    Quote from: magicman on January 09, 2009, 11:01:25 PM
    It looks like Pep will have 1 week to strike up the band when Alfred takes on Stevens next Friday the 16th at McLane. Saxons even their record at 6-6 with an 89-82 win over Hartwick.

    Indeed, Pep had told Coach Wellman that he'd get the band to play if the Saxons got five wins this year. Pep was thinking five wins for the season...but now that AU is 2-2 in the E8, it's looking like Coach W has his boys on track for more than five wins in the conference!

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 10, 2009, 10:36:25 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 09, 2009, 10:53:57 PM
    Incredible how many points IC can score. It blows my mind. Since I have been following Fisher I can remember about 4 times they have topped 100 (2 of them with overtime). IC has scored 118, 112, and now 122 in regulation this season. That is absurd. I am starting to think IC has a chance to go undefeated through the regular season. Still a very tall order to complete, but no one seems to be close this year.
    Any thoughts on the comparisons between this IC team, and the Fisher team that went 27-0?

    I still think the Fisher team that went 26-4 the year after the 27-0 season was the best team in the region in a long, long time, but this IC team continues to impress.

    Fisher struggles to score again, but plays good enough defnese to win on the road.

    Pep is tickled to be able to say that his Saxons were even with Ithaca 61-61 (after leading by as many as 9 in the first half) before the Bombers went on a run to pull away 75-64 at McLane on Sunday (which seems like a long time ago).

    At the Fisher Tourney, the Saxons played great first halves against Muskingum and St. Mary's before running out of steam late in those games....same happened against the Bombers. Saxons lack the depth to spell the starters much, thanks to various injuries, etc. But it appears AU is developing a second wind (can we attribute this to relentless conditioning?) and now finishing strong.

    From what Pep has seen, Coach Wellman's undersized squad plays tough defense and to the Saxons' credit, have to date held Ithaca to its lowest point production during the Bombers' unbeatable start.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 10, 2009, 11:08:25 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2009, 11:12:21 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 09, 2009, 10:53:57 PM
    Incredible how many points IC can score. It blows my mind. Since I have been following Fisher I can remember about 4 times they have topped 100 (2 of them with overtime). IC has scored 118, 112, and now 122 in regulation this season. That is absurd. I am starting to think IC has a chance to go undefeated through the regular season. Still a very tall order to complete, but no one seems to be close this year.
    Any thoughts on the comparisons between this IC team, and the Fisher team that went 27-0?

    I still think the Fisher team that went 26-4 the year after the 27-0 season was the best team in the region in a long, long time, but this IC team continues to impress.

    Fisher struggles to score again, but plays good enough defnese to win on the road.

    Cards--

    Talked to an IC coach who thinks 23-2 in the regular season is more likely. He thinks Potsdam may be dangerous because it's a random OOC game that they may have trouble getting up for. He also said SJF may give them some trouble on the road.

    Honestly, the 122 is nasty, but it was Naz. This team ranks 388 out of 394 in scoring defense. They're just not good. The Bombers hae weapons, but Elmira, Hobart and Naz aren't benchmarks for offensive success. That being said, it's nice to know the Bombers aren't going to trip up against weaker teams.

    IC and Naz shot a lot because the game was high tempo. I don't think the shot clock dropped below 10 all game. IC also hit 28 free throws. It was interesting to watch, I don't know if fun is the word though. Naz really only had two guys with big games.

    I don't think we should look at any game Naz plays as a microcosim of D-III.




    Based on box score Marcus Jordan looks impressive. I agree with the comments about the IC game w/SUNY Potsdam. That game will be a big test for the Bombers.

    Naz is just unbelievable. On paper, one of the most talented teams in the league - but that's why the games aren't played on paper. 388 out of 394 on defense? That's absurd! What is Daly doing over there?!?

    Good luck to everyone in the Chase Tourney!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 10, 2009, 11:50:23 AM
    E8BBallFan - the name is actually Jordan Marcus.  Ithaca didn't suddenly install the Grinnell System over the summer, did they?  Where the heck did all these ridiculous point totals come from?  Not that I'm complaining, mind you  :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on January 10, 2009, 12:06:48 PM
    I think the loss of Rayvon Higdon has become huge for  Nazareth. He was really a guy that took pressure off the Mcadams. Its amazing to me how bad everyone not named Mcadam or Dehimer are on this team. The Major kid is putting up ok numbers but he is a mess defensively and is simply the best of the remaining worst on that roster. Daly had better get these guys to start playing some defense or they might not win 4 more games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 10, 2009, 01:47:23 PM
    Quote from: NaztyNate on January 10, 2009, 12:06:48 PM
    I think the loss of Rayvon Higdon has become huge for  Nazareth. He was really a guy that took pressure off the Mcadams. Its amazing to me how bad everyone not named Mcadam or Dehimer are on this team. The Major kid is putting up ok numbers but he is a mess defensively and is simply the best of the remaining worst on that roster. Daly had better get these guys to start playing some defense or they might not win 4 more games.

    I was actually just wondering about Higdon this morning. What happened to him?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 10, 2009, 02:42:58 PM
    Higdon is a big loss on the defensive end especially. Not sure what happened with him but the turnover at Naz has been ridiculous...Higdon, Gephardt, Bozelli, and I know I'm missing another 1 or 2 from the past few years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 10, 2009, 03:03:28 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 10, 2009, 02:42:58 PM
    Higdon is a big loss on the defensive end especially. Not sure what happened with him but the turnover at Naz has been ridiculous...Higdon, Gephardt, Bozelli, and I know I'm missing another 1 or 2 from the past few years.

    I really wonder if it's Daley that's the problem. A few years back they got a really good player from Rush-Henrietta in Rochester (I think his name was Alex Davis). He spent his entire freshman year sitting behind players he was better than and the next year he was gone. I remember Shipley quit mid-season during his senior year, too. Then there was the Maroney debacle, as well. Almost seems like they need to turn the page on the Daley era, and I say that fully aware that Naz made the NCAA Tourney last season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 10, 2009, 07:40:29 PM
    Alfred loses a close one at Utica 69-65. Saxons down by 13 with 12 1/2 to play close to within 1 at 56-55 at the 4:47 mark. Utica hits the free throws at the end and hangs on to get their first win in conference play. Pioneers led by P. Goodman with 15, J. Maxwell with 11 and J. McClendon with a double-double of 10 pts. and 12 boards. Saxons paced by G. Kwiecien with 20, B. Barry with 18, and C. Embury with 13. Utica goes to 4-6(1-3 E8). Alfred drops to 6-7(2-3 E8).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 10, 2009, 08:35:03 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 09, 2009, 12:15:55 PM
    One man's guess at this weekend's results:

    FRIDAY

    Alfred (63) at Hartwick (73)
    Fisher (61) at Utica (66)
    Nazareth (82) at Ithaca (101)

    I'm intrigued by the Hartwick-Alfred game. Both teams are improved. I'll give the edge to the homestanding Hawks. I think tonight's game is a must-win for Utica. They can't afford to go 0-3 and take a home loss to a team with whom they'll be competing for an E8 Tourney berth. I think Utica survives, for now, against a youthful Fisher club. This is a tough matchup for Naz. They want to run, but I'm not sure they want to get into a high-tempo game against Ithaca. The Bombers have too much firepower for the Golden Flyers.

    SATURDAY

    Alfred (65) at Utica (69)

    Tough place to play for the Saxons. I think Utica takes a close one.

    SUNDAY

    Fisher (77) at Elmira (65)
    Ithaca (83) at RIT (81)

    Fisher should win fairly easily. That brings us to the game of the weekend: Ithaca at RIT. Ithaca seems to win at Clark and RIT seems to play Ithaca better at The Bulb. I think Ithaca will step up their game in front of a full house in a game for early conference supremacy. I'm guessing Burton gets to the line late in the game and IC makes just enough defensive stops. It should be a great game.



    I have finally fulfilled my lifelong goal of hitting an E8 score right on the head. This calls for a celebration. +K for all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 11, 2009, 12:37:55 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 10, 2009, 08:35:03 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 09, 2009, 12:15:55 PM
    One man's guess at this weekend's results:

    FRIDAY

    Alfred (63) at Hartwick (73)
    Fisher (61) at Utica (66)
    Nazareth (82) at Ithaca (101)

    I'm intrigued by the Hartwick-Alfred game. Both teams are improved. I'll give the edge to the homestanding Hawks. I think tonight's game is a must-win for Utica. They can't afford to go 0-3 and take a home loss to a team with whom they'll be competing for an E8 Tourney berth. I think Utica survives, for now, against a youthful Fisher club. This is a tough matchup for Naz. They want to run, but I'm not sure they want to get into a high-tempo game against Ithaca. The Bombers have too much firepower for the Golden Flyers.

    SATURDAY

    Alfred (65) at Utica (69)

    Tough place to play for the Saxons. I think Utica takes a close one.

    SUNDAY

    Fisher (77) at Elmira (65)
    Ithaca (83) at RIT (81)

    Fisher should win fairly easily. That brings us to the game of the weekend: Ithaca at RIT. Ithaca seems to win at Clark and RIT seems to play Ithaca better at The Bulb. I think Ithaca will step up their game in front of a full house in a game for early conference supremacy. I'm guessing Burton gets to the line late in the game and IC makes just enough defensive stops. It should be a great game.



    I have finally fulfilled my lifelong goal of hitting an E8 score right on the head. This calls for a celebration. +K for all.

    Good job gb15. Plus k to you for your lifelong achievement.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Nosyor on January 11, 2009, 11:57:52 AM
    Anyone going to the RIT vs Ithaca game today?  If you have a chance I recommend it.  Should be a great experience for a D3 game...now if they only scheduled it when the GIANTS weren't playing I'd be a much happier man.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jdex on January 11, 2009, 03:59:29 PM

    RIT at the buzzer ......three ......good by N. Korinchak......87-84. IC's S. Burton 2 ft at 0:04 tied it. RIT 43-39 at the half
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 11, 2009, 04:02:44 PM
    I couldn't agree more with Nosyor. Watching both games was very tough as this is another thriller much like last years game. Very back and fourth and very tigh game for the last three minutes. With 9 seconds left RIT calls time out, while Ithaca had known and lets Ithaca set-up a play. Burton gets the inbounds and drives the entire court, goes in for a lay-up and is fouled by Carson with 3.9 left.

    Burton hits both and then a poor inbounds pass almost stolen then recovered by RIT. Sweet pass it to Korinchak. Who hits a 3 from inside of half court. I don't know how all of that happened in 3.9 seconds. RIT returns the favor from last year on the same floor but I wish there was instant replay for that. RIT also hit a buzzer beater three to end the first half, so that is a six point swing right there Burton has a triple double with 25, 10 and 10 Carson had 16, and 21. I am still in shock.  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Nosyor on January 11, 2009, 04:51:27 PM
    That was incredible. Bombersquadron I still have the shock factor myself. 

    The crowd was not as big as last year but it was still a fun atmosphere.  You couldn't ask for anything more out of a basketball game.  It had all the elements needed to keep you on the edge of you seat.  Two buzzer beater shots to end both halves.  Nice runs by both teams throughout the first and second halves.  Lots of star power and lots of effort plays.  My hat goes off to both of these teams.

    RIT had five players in double figures (18, 16, 13, 13, 10).  This is the balanced attack we haven't seen much of from this squad yet this year.  Ithaca wasn't far behind with four players in double figures (28, 18, 11, 10).

    Ithaca's game plan was to smoother Carson and leave the RIT's points open for jump shots.  They did a very good job of limiting Carson's touches all together.  He only took 8 shots...8 shots!!!  Before Carson got the ball IC sagged way in to make the entry pass near impossible.  When Carson did get the ball, IC did their homework and swarmed him low.  He has a tendency to immediately put the ball on the floor and go left.  Most of the time it works b/c he is so much quicker then the other big men he plays.  If you can get to him quickly you have a chance to get some steals.  In terms of the PGs for RIT, I'd say they did their part.  Korinchak and Lowe combined for 31 pts on 10 of 22 shooting, 8 boards, 7 assists and 5 TOs in 45 min of play.  Those numbers are very comparable to Burton's on the night.  I would take that out of my point guards every single game (who wouldn't?)

    This is the first I have seen IC and they are an extremely dangerous team.  I think they could make a very good run in the NCAA tournament this year.  They score so many points b/c they shoot the ball quickly.  If one of their guards has a good look it's going up. That means they are never out of any single game.  Even if they get down by 15 points they have the ability to string together 3 or 4 threes in a matter of a minute.  If you want to beat this team you absolutely must be winning the game going into the last minute because they will not miss foul shots.  I don't see many teams coming from behind at the end of games. 

    Maybe Bostic just had a down game (7 points and 12 boards) offensively or maybe i'm over critical, but I was not impressed.  He is strictly a jump shooter.  I can only recall him driving at Carson once.  Te was anticipating contact, didn't get it, and blew the finish.  He only had 4 free throws while playing 36 minutes.  That is a sign that your star big man is not aggressive.  He doesn't attack the hoop like I think he has the ability to.

    Now on to the talk of the boards from the last week.  Carson or Burton?  My answer...??????????? I realize Burton had a triple double, he played a very good game.  He did have 7 TOs however, which led to several gimmie buckets for RIT.  7 turnovers are too many for a player of his skill.  Burton's shot is pure.  He elevates effortlessly and can hit shots over anyone at any time from anywhere.  He's a scorer and a very good one.

    Carson ended the game with 15 points and 23 rebounds.  It is incredible the presence he commands in the paint.  I wish I kept track of how many times just him being around the hoop and contesting shots made the IC players alter their shot and miss. 
    On the boards is where he was most impressive.  Bostic was trying his best to push him out of the paint, he just wouldn't budge.  It has gotten to the point that when a shot is taken by the opposing team, all four other RIT players can immediately start their transition offense because they know Carson will come down with the rebound.  It's automatic, I've honestly never seen anything like it.

    So in my opinion.  There's no winning this debate.  It will probably go to the player who's team wins the league and I think I'd be ok with that.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 11, 2009, 05:40:31 PM
    Elmira 70 - Fisher 58.  What's going on in Pittsford in the New Year?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: lileyes on January 11, 2009, 05:48:06 PM
    Here is the video clip for the shot by RIT. I don't feel it should have counted but that shouldn't take away from the great game both teams played.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buZ7kTTxuYk
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 11, 2009, 05:49:26 PM
    A few things:

    1) Re: Bostic-- I've said it on multiple occasions now, Ithaca's style of play has marginalized him. Royson, you said, "as soon as the guards have a shot, it goes up," and that's part of it. It's amazing that a two-time 1st-Team Empire 8 player has attempted the FOURTH most amount of shots on his OWN team. Think about that. Cruz and Leahy are attempting 2.5 more shots per game. His numbers are down because he's not utilized properly. The games I've seen, I don't see much of a two-man game with him and Burton. They should be doing that much more than they do.

    2) You saw how clutch Burton is today. With 2:58 remaining, Burton stepped to the line for two shots, his team trailing 77-67. He scored 11 of Ithaca's last 17 points. The other six points were 3-pointers that Burton assisted. He had a hand in ALL 17 of IC's points in the last three minutes and rallied them from a 10-point deficit. In the words of Bill Raftery, "onions!"

    3) Burton scored 28 and his assists led directly to 25 points. That's an incredible 63% of Ithaca's points coming from Burton, and it's likely more because that doesn't account for the passes directly leading to FT's for other players. Incredible.

    4) Whether I agree with it or not, I also think whoever's team wins the conference will take the POY award. For reasons already stated in this post, and elsewhere, you know who I think should win the award, regardless. This will be like last year's NBA MVP race between CP3 and Kobe where everyone implicitly recognizes that the award will go to the person on the better team (incredibly flawed on multiple levels).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 11, 2009, 05:54:57 PM
    Quote from: lileyes on January 11, 2009, 05:48:06 PM
    Here is the video clip for the shot by RIT. I don't feel it should have counted but that shouldn't take away from the great game both teams played.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buZ7kTTxuYk


    How in all of God's goodness did all of that take place in 3.9 seconds?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: lileyes on January 11, 2009, 06:46:53 PM
    Using a stop-watch the buzzer did sound right at 3.9 seconds....it's just the shot came after the buzzer.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on January 11, 2009, 06:59:18 PM
    Fisher beat Elmira
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 11, 2009, 07:08:23 PM
    I would guess from looking at the sparse crowd on the one side of the gym that this video shows us, that RIT's President didn't have to dye his hair orange, as he promised to do if the place was full. Hard to believe they couldn't fiil the place with this matchup and 1st place on the line.

    "From Afar" will probably be celebrating all night long.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 11, 2009, 07:13:23 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 11, 2009, 07:08:23 PM
    I would guess from looking at the sparse crowd on the one side of the gym that this video shows us, that RIT's President didn't have to dye his hair orange, as he promised to do if the place was full. Hard to believe they couldn't fiil the place with this matchup and 1st place on the line.

    "From Afar" will probably be celebrating all night long.

    I'm sure the football games didn't help attendance. Plus, it's always tougher for college students to motivate themselves on Sunday afternoons since they're usually preceded by Saturday evening shenanigans.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 11, 2009, 07:14:33 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on January 11, 2009, 05:40:31 PM
    Elmira 70 - Fisher 58.  What's going on in Pittsford in the New Year?
    Quote from: GPT on January 11, 2009, 06:59:18 PM
    Fisher beat Elmira

    Ethelred,

    D3 Hoops has the score posted backwards on the Scoreboard. Write up from SJF web site:

    The St. John Fisher College men's basketball team improved to 9-2 on the year with a 70-58 win at Elmira College on Sunday.  The Cardinals went on a 9-1 run over the closing moments of the first half to take a 34-24 lead into the locker room and never gave up the lead.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 11, 2009, 07:32:54 PM
    At first with the shock of the buzzer beater and the fact that the opposite happened last year I thought for sure that the clock didn't start on time and all of that was more than 3.9 seconds. However thanks to youtube, I was able to get an answer. It did take more than 3.9 seconds for all of that to happen, the clock was right, however the shot was 100% after the buzzer went off. After watching it about ten times I would say he is bring the ball up around his waist when the buzzer sounds.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 11, 2009, 07:43:37 PM
    Quote from: lileyes on January 11, 2009, 05:48:06 PM
    Here is the video clip for the shot by RIT. I don't feel it should have counted but that shouldn't take away from the great game both teams played.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buZ7kTTxuYk


    Watching this clip, Pep says one can hear the buzzer as the RIT player has the ball at his waistline, bringing it up for the shot. But can see how refs could have called it either way...a tough call to make.

    (And now as Pep is about to post this, he's reading bombersquadron's take....sorry for the redundancy.)

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 11, 2009, 07:44:45 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on January 11, 2009, 07:32:54 PM
    At first with the shock of the buzzer beater and the fact that the opposite happened last year I thought for sure that the clock didn't start on time and all of that was more than 3.9 seconds. However thanks to youtube, I was able to get an answer. It did take more than 3.9 seconds for all of that to happen, the clock was right, however the shot was 100% after the buzzer went off. After watching it about ten times I would say he is bring the ball up around his waist when the buzzer sounds.

    Agreed. It's a bang-bang play, but that wasn't all that difficult of a call. Negligence by the referees. Their only job is to watch where the ball is when the the buzzer sounds. If there's any silver lining, it was that the teams still would've had to play OT, so RIT may have won, anyways. That would have been an even tougher pill to swallow if Ithaca was winning before that shot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 11, 2009, 07:45:04 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 11, 2009, 07:13:23 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 11, 2009, 07:08:23 PM
    I would guess from looking at the sparse crowd on the one side of the gym that this video shows us, that RIT's President didn't have to dye his hair orange, as he promised to do if the place was full. Hard to believe they couldn't fiil the place with this matchup and 1st place on the line.

    "From Afar" will probably be celebrating all night long.

    I'm sure the football games didn't help attendance. Plus, it's always tougher for college students to motivate themselves on Sunday afternoons since they're usually preceded by Saturday evening shenanigans.

    Are RIT students even on campus? AU classes resume on Jan. 20, making it even more difficult for Pep to muster the musicians for a Jan. 16 home game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 11, 2009, 07:49:22 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 11, 2009, 07:45:04 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 11, 2009, 07:13:23 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 11, 2009, 07:08:23 PM
    I would guess from looking at the sparse crowd on the one side of the gym that this video shows us, that RIT's President didn't have to dye his hair orange, as he promised to do if the place was full. Hard to believe they couldn't fiil the place with this matchup and 1st place on the line.

    "From Afar" will probably be celebrating all night long.

    I'm sure the football games didn't help attendance. Plus, it's always tougher for college students to motivate themselves on Sunday afternoons since they're usually preceded by Saturday evening shenanigans.

    Are RIT students even on campus? AU classes resume on Jan. 20, making it even more difficult for Pep to muster the musicians for a Jan. 16 home game.


    They went back last Sunday/Monday I think
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 11, 2009, 07:50:46 PM
    Okay, Pep just checked the RIT academic calendar....they operate with four quarters and are in the midst of their winter quarter. Their classes resumed Jan. 5.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 11, 2009, 10:04:39 PM
    I was a little upset when I saw that Fisher lost to Elmira...Big sigh of relief now that I see the change. I feel better about the RIT loss now that they beat ithaca.

    I saw the video of the last shot of the RIT/Ithaca game, and I have to say that the shot looked a little late to me. Sometimes it is tough to wave it off, after it goes in and the crowd goes nuts. I am not saying the refs looked the other way or anything, but if a ref does not wave it off, as the shot is in the air (maybe a slight delay because he was not sure), and boom, the place is going nuts.

    It makes for a great ending, and sets up some drama for the next round.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 11, 2009, 10:17:13 PM
    The shot appeared to be late, (ok forget it, it WAS late, and the call was flat out wrong) however:

    1) Ithaca dug themselves a hole and couldn't dig themselves out in time. You can't ever pinpoint one play as the difference.

    2) The game still would have gone to overtime, and Ithaca could have lost anyway.

    In all honesty, this loss may help the Bombers. Now they don't need to worry about being undefeated, and trying to continue all these school records. There's a lot less pressure. They know RIT has to come to Ithaca and deal with their crowd and they know they can play with them.

    Also, don't you love how this game clears up nothing for the POY race? Carson goes for what, 24-16 and Burton counters with a triple-double? Classic stuff.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 11, 2009, 10:25:42 PM
    I think Carson comes out on top.  His team won the game and has less supporting cast.  Ithaca clearly focused on him and his stats were still unreal.  In addition, Burton had 7 turnovers to add to his triple double.  Obivously both still played great and its still very close
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 11, 2009, 11:57:41 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 11, 2009, 10:25:42 PM
    I think Carson comes out on top.  His team won the game and has less supporting cast.  Ithaca clearly focused on him and his stats were still unreal.  In addition, Burton had 7 turnovers to add to his triple double.  Obivously both still played great and its still very close

    I gotta disagree for the following reason

    Burton was the only reason that game was close.

    IC was down 10 with three minutes to go, then look what happened:

    Burton hits two free throws (IC down 8)

    Casron misses one of two free throws (IC down 9)

    Burton hits a jumper (IC down 7)

    Burton assists on Leahy 3 pointer (IC down 4)

    Carson misses two free throws (IC down 6)

    Burton hits a layup (IC down 4)

    Burton assists on Marcus three pointer (IC down 3)

    Burton hits three pointer (IC down 1)

    Carson misses one of two free throws (IC down 2)

    Burton hits two free throws after Carson fouls him (Tie)

    So in the final three minutes, with his team down 10 on the road, Burton makes 7 shots for 11 points with two assists and no turnovers. He's involved with all 17 of his team's points.

    What does Carson do? Goes 2-6 from the line, which essentially prevents RIT from icing the game, and fouls the best free throw shooter in the conference that allows IC to tie them.

    And we're giving the nod to Carson why? Because the refs bailed out his team with a bad call to salvage them allowing a 17-7 run on their home court in the final three minutes and having to go into OT with Burton on fire? A win's a win and RIT came out on top, but the bottom line is, when the chips were down and this thing got close, Burton stepped up. Carson didn't. He sat there missing free throws while Butron lit up the scoreboard. His teammates--and the refs--saved him after he couldn't hit his shots from the line. Burton took the game over.

    And can we stop penalizing Burton because he's got good teammates and acting like Carson plays with a bunch of stiffs? RIT had four other guys in double figures, so let's not act like Burton's the only one with talent around him.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 12, 2009, 09:15:53 AM
    Magicman, I am still celebrating......  Although I am a biased observer let me say this, the shot was after the buzzer, no doubt in my mind. I have been on the other side of some bad calls, this evens them all out for me... I can never complain again. As for the debate over who's better, we can talk forever. Burton truly is in another league, and was trying to WILL that game for IC, carying them on his back, but let's also remember Carson drew the IC defense like a swarm of flies when he touched the ball. The supporting cast came up big. I am happy BUT guarded. Although we play well at The Bulb, IC will not forget this one, and should pay us back.... (just being realistic). However this game has given me confidence that  we will certainly be in the E8 with IC. That leaves 2 spots. Who will they be. Naz can't play defense, Stevens and Fisher can't play offense. Fisher plays better "D" better than Stevens, so I'll go with Fisher for 3rd. That means the 4 spot open for Stevens, Utica, Hartwick, Naz, Alfred.... can you believe that..... I don't know why but I am going with Utica.
    Hartwick is not ready to win big games, Naz doesn't play any D whatsoever, Stevens lost their toughness losing Williams, Greco and Walleed. Utica just needs to execute. Alfred has been under the radar, BUT as I said early on, they are not an easy out.   But what do I ;) know 


     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 12, 2009, 09:39:46 AM
    GoBombers, I saw your post about Stevens missing Waleed. They certainly miss him, but the word from the Stevens Alum are he was a little over-rated. They said he came when the program was just starting to imporove, as a matter of fact he was one of the first pieces to the puzzle. He was depended on to do it all early on and once he got help... Grey, Greco, Passalaqua, etc. he didn't use them enough. By that I mean, he would get the ball and it was like a black hole...Yes he could create his own shots and rebounded well for a 6'1" (I believe) player.... but unlike  Burton, could have made those other guys better... You can blame coaching for that. Hey I not  knocking Waleed. I give him crdeit, he came to a program looking to build and truly began the process. Unfortunately it looks like the proces has slowed down... Stevens needs this kid Smith to get stronger to play the post next year, and need a heady tough point guard next year. They need overall toughness as well. Then they need some shooters.... Otherwise this program could go right back where it was. But what do I know ;)

       
    Title: RIT-ITHACA GAME
    Post by: RITFAN on January 12, 2009, 10:44:06 AM
    Hey Bombers 798891 - Interesting analysis of the last 3 minutes.  You somehow forgot to mention the 2 defensive and 1 offense rebounds Carson got it that time frame.

    I was at the game - Burton is a fabulous player, who brings a completely different set of skills to the game than Carson does - I guess that is the point.

    By the way, you are absolutely correct that the RIT team are not a bunch of stiffs.  But I am curious - which Ithaca starters would you replace with RIT starters if you had the chance?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 11:34:10 AM
    A little insider information for you all.  Carson was sick as a dog during that IC game.  Not sure how it affected his play (if it did at all, doesn't look like it from his numbers), but I figured it might be something worth mentioning.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 12, 2009, 12:40:15 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 11:34:10 AM
    A little insider information for you all.  Carson was sick as a dog during that IC game.  Not sure how it affected his play (if it did at all, doesn't look like it from his numbers), but I figured it might be something worth mentioning.

    The best game I ever played in my basketball playing life came when I had a fever of almost 102. It was like the game was played in slow motion, it was great. No extra credit because he was sick.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 12, 2009, 12:56:44 PM
    The more I see that YouTube, the worse that call gets to me. Really, it wasn't even that close.

    The name of the referee was Todd Sweeney. Ithaca should have expected something was awry when this guy showed up to ref their game:

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.helena-world.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2F20071128_helena01.jpg&hash=8dc0fbf48764860dcb8ea667250dde17d4413f97)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 12, 2009, 01:02:45 PM
    GOBOMBERS is correct, if youy lace them up, no excuses. Actually i hope he is a little under the weather the rest of the year. I'll take that night again and again....... especially the "w". We all know the Rochester REF's are the biggest homers as well. I admit it....  However it's worse when you go to Fisher... if any edge can be given or anything is close.... the Cardinals get the call... no offense to the Fisher backers it has always been that way......... BUT remember I have my payback on that 3 pointer and will never complain again ::), but what do I know.. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 01:11:28 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 11, 2009, 05:49:26 PM
    A few things:

    1) Re: Bostic-- I've said it on multiple occasions now, Ithaca's style of play has marginalized him. Royson, you said, "as soon as the guards have a shot, it goes up," and that's part of it. It's amazing that a two-time 1st-Team Empire 8 player has attempted the FOURTH most amount of shots on his OWN team. Think about that. Cruz and Leahy are attempting 2.5 more shots per game. His numbers are down because he's not utilized properly. The games I've seen, I don't see much of a two-man game with him and Burton. They should be doing that much more than they do.

    2) You saw how clutch Burton is today. With 2:58 remaining, Burton stepped to the line for two shots, his team trailing 77-67. He scored 11 of Ithaca's last 17 points. The other six points were 3-pointers that Burton assisted. He had a hand in ALL 17 of IC's points in the last three minutes and rallied them from a 10-point deficit. In the words of Bill Raftery, "onions!"

    3) Burton scored 28 and his assists led directly to 25 points. That's an incredible 63% of Ithaca's points coming from Burton, and it's likely more because that doesn't account for the passes directly leading to FT's for other players. Incredible.

    4) Whether I agree with it or not, I also think whoever's team wins the conference will take the POY award. For reasons already stated in this post, and elsewhere, you know who I think should win the award, regardless. This will be like last year's NBA MVP race between CP3 and Kobe where everyone implicitly recognizes that the award will go to the person on the better team (incredibly flawed on multiple levels).

    I agree, I think a two man game w/ Burton and Bostic would be unstoppable.  I would go to it the last 10 minutes of every game.  It puts the ball in Burton's hands and allows him to make all the decisions.  It also keeps Bostic involved and lets him get up that 15' J he likes so much.  Gobombers when are they going to put you on the payroll as an assistant?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 12, 2009, 01:15:43 PM
    Yeah, the shot was after the buzzer.  I guess I can understand the referees losing their focus when the play was so hectic, but still, it was pretty clear.

    Regardless, the story of this game isn't the bad call -- it's how good RIT is.  This is a team picked to finish 6th in the conference by the coaches. 

    And those close regional losses to UR and Oneonta look like battles between good teams, instead of the usual RIT early-season stumbles. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 01:17:23 PM
    The supporting cast played very well for RIT vs IC which is what they needed to win that game.  It makes me wonder how much better this team would have been if Foster was on the court for them.  He would have been a number 2 or number 3 scoring option and added more depth for the Tigers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 12, 2009, 01:40:44 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 01:17:23 PM
    The supporting cast played very well for RIT vs IC which is what they needed to win that game.  It makes me wonder how much better this team would have been if Foster was on the court for them.  He would have been a number 2 or number 3 scoring option and added more depth for the Tigers.

    There's another name (besides Rayvon Higdon of Naz) that I haven't heard yet this year. Did he leave school? Where is he?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 02:41:58 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 12, 2009, 01:40:44 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 01:17:23 PM
    The supporting cast played very well for RIT vs IC which is what they needed to win that game.  It makes me wonder how much better this team would have been if Foster was on the court for them.  He would have been a number 2 or number 3 scoring option and added more depth for the Tigers.

    There's another name (besides Rayvon Higdon of Naz) that I haven't heard yet this year. Did he leave school? Where is he?

    He found out a week before school started that RIT wasn't renewing his Financial Aid.  There were some factors leading to it (none within Shane's control) that led to the result.  I know coach McVean tried everything within his power to get Shane back on campus this year, it just didn't work out.  It is too bad b/c he is a really good kid.  Sometimes we lose sight of the business end of college when we focus so much of our attention on the sports aspect.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 12, 2009, 03:02:55 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 02:41:58 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 12, 2009, 01:40:44 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 01:17:23 PM
    The supporting cast played very well for RIT vs IC which is what they needed to win that game.  It makes me wonder how much better this team would have been if Foster was on the court for them.  He would have been a number 2 or number 3 scoring option and added more depth for the Tigers.

    There's another name (besides Rayvon Higdon of Naz) that I haven't heard yet this year. Did he leave school? Where is he?

    He found out a week before school started that RIT wasn't renewing his Financial Aid.  There were some factors leading to it (none within Shane's control) that led to the result.  I know coach McVean tried everything within his power to get Shane back on campus this year, it just didn't work out.  It is too bad b/c he is a really good kid.  Sometimes we lose sight of the business end of college when we focus so much of our attention on the sports aspect.

    I agree. I'm actually surprised that it doesn't happen more often. The E8 schools are far from inexpensive. I loved my experience at Ithaca, but I won't be crying if my children end up deciding that they'd prefer a state school for their undergraduate education.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 04:16:33 PM
    Chase Tournament Seedings
    1 U of R
    2 RIT
    3 Genesseo
    4 St. John Fisher
    5 Roberts
    6 Brockport
    7 Nazareth
    8 Keuka

    I don't disagree with any of the rankings but what I do disagree with is where the first place games take place.  RIT has to play at Naz on Wed and Genesseo plays at Brockport.  I understand the venues are picked before the seedings and it just doesn't make sense to me.  What kind of an advantage do Genesseo and RIT get with a higher seed if they are forced to play on the road for the first game?
    It can't be administrative issues because there aren't any problems scrambling at the end of the year to set up the ECAC tournament (meaning there is a quick turnaround for home games). 

    Don't get wrong I love the Chase, I just don't like the home court situation.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 12, 2009, 06:55:26 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 04:16:33 PM
    Chase Tournament Seedings
    1 U of R
    2 RIT
    3 Genesseo
    4 St. John Fisher
    5 Roberts
    6 Brockport
    7 Nazareth
    8 Keuka

    I don't disagree with any of the rankings but what I do disagree with is where the first place games take place.  RIT has to play at Naz on Wed and Genesseo plays at Brockport.  I understand the venues are picked before the seedings and it just doesn't make sense to me.  What kind of an advantage do Genesseo and RIT get with a higher seed if they are forced to play on the road for the first game?
    It can't be administrative issues because there aren't any problems scrambling at the end of the year to set up the ECAC tournament (meaning there is a quick turnaround for home games). 

    Don't get wrong I love the Chase, I just don't like the home court situation.


    C'mon now, RIT usually benefits from that exact situation more times than any other school. Wasn't there an instance a few years back (2004-05?) where a lower-seeded (worse) RIT hosted higher-seed Rochester at RIT and won, followed by hosting higher-seeded Fisher and losing?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 07:44:08 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 12, 2009, 06:55:26 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 04:16:33 PM
    Chase Tournament Seedings
    1 U of R
    2 RIT
    3 Genesseo
    4 St. John Fisher
    5 Roberts
    6 Brockport
    7 Nazareth
    8 Keuka

    I don't disagree with any of the rankings but what I do disagree with is where the first place games take place.  RIT has to play at Naz on Wed and Genesseo plays at Brockport.  I understand the venues are picked before the seedings and it just doesn't make sense to me.  What kind of an advantage do Genesseo and RIT get with a higher seed if they are forced to play on the road for the first game?
    It can't be administrative issues because there aren't any problems scrambling at the end of the year to set up the ECAC tournament (meaning there is a quick turnaround for home games). 

    Don't get wrong I love the Chase, I just don't like the home court situation.


    C'mon now, RIT usually benefits from that exact situation more times than any other school. Wasn't there an instance a few years back (2004-05?) where a lower-seeded (worse) RIT hosted higher-seed Rochester at RIT and won, followed by hosting higher-seeded Fisher and losing?

    Haha. Well I'm not going to complain when it works out in my favor!  Seriously though, how is the hosting determined? 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 13, 2009, 11:11:57 AM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 07:44:08 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 12, 2009, 06:55:26 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 04:16:33 PM
    Chase Tournament Seedings
    1 U of R
    2 RIT
    3 Genesseo
    4 St. John Fisher
    5 Roberts
    6 Brockport
    7 Nazareth
    8 Keuka

    I don't disagree with any of the rankings but what I do disagree with is where the first place games take place.  RIT has to play at Naz on Wed and Genesseo plays at Brockport.  I understand the venues are picked before the seedings and it just doesn't make sense to me.  What kind of an advantage do Genesseo and RIT get with a higher seed if they are forced to play on the road for the first game?
    It can't be administrative issues because there aren't any problems scrambling at the end of the year to set up the ECAC tournament (meaning there is a quick turnaround for home games). 

    Don't get wrong I love the Chase, I just don't like the home court situation.


    C'mon now, RIT usually benefits from that exact situation more times than any other school. Wasn't there an instance a few years back (2004-05?) where a lower-seeded (worse) RIT hosted higher-seed Rochester at RIT and won, followed by hosting higher-seeded Fisher and losing?

    Haha. Well I'm not going to complain when it works out in my favor!  Seriously though, how is the hosting determined? 


    I believe each year the host sites rotate.
    Title: Re: RIT-ITHACA GAME
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 13, 2009, 09:11:43 PM
    Quote from: RITFAN on January 12, 2009, 10:44:06 AM
    Hey Bombers 798891 - Interesting analysis of the last 3 minutes.  You somehow forgot to mention the 2 defensive and 1 offense rebounds Carson got it that time frame.

    I was at the game - Burton is a fabulous player, who brings a completely different set of skills to the game than Carson does - I guess that is the point.

    By the way, you are absolutely correct that the RIT team are not a bunch of stiffs.  But I am curious - which Ithaca starters would you replace with RIT starters if you had the chance?

    1. I didn't forget them, as much as the RIT stat book didn't track them. I know Carson is a beast on the boards and would have put them in there if they'd been tracked. Also, did Burton snare any rebounds in that time? Because he had 10 in the game.

    2. The point was I guess more that, in the last three minutes of crunch time, Burton was the best player on the court for either side.

    3. I don't know much about RIT's other players, so maybe no-one. But I fail to see how that makes Burton any less talented. Was Joe Montana overrated because he got to throw to Jerry Rice and John Taylor and hand off to Roger Craig? Yes it helps assist numbers when the guys hit the shots, but the fact is, Ithaca's offense would stall without Burton. There's no way they'd have the firepower to hang 90-100 on teams and they've allowed a lot of points this season.

    4. As I said earlier, it's tough to compare a point guard to a center, and both players are fabulous. I just think Burton had a better game, although it was close.

    It looks like the RIT/IC game could determine the conference title.

    Tonight, Burton goes for 20-10 in only 26 minutes as IC embarrasses Potsdam 116-94. It wasn't even that close. IC empties the bench up 34 with 7 minutes to go. Probably the 4th time this season they've come short of the school record for points due to the starters being able to relax. Two big road conference games loom before it's a whole bunch of home cooking.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 13, 2009, 10:48:47 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 13, 2009, 11:11:57 AM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 07:44:08 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 12, 2009, 06:55:26 PM
    Quote from: Nosyor on January 12, 2009, 04:16:33 PM
    Chase Tournament Seedings
    1 U of R
    2 RIT
    3 Genesseo
    4 St. John Fisher
    5 Roberts
    6 Brockport
    7 Nazareth
    8 Keuka

    I don't disagree with any of the rankings but what I do disagree with is where the first place games take place.  RIT has to play at Naz on Wed and Genesseo plays at Brockport.  I understand the venues are picked before the seedings and it just doesn't make sense to me.  What kind of an advantage do Genesseo and RIT get with a higher seed if they are forced to play on the road for the first game?
    It can't be administrative issues because there aren't any problems scrambling at the end of the year to set up the ECAC tournament (meaning there is a quick turnaround for home games). 

    Don't get wrong I love the Chase, I just don't like the home court situation.


    C'mon now, RIT usually benefits from that exact situation more times than any other school. Wasn't there an instance a few years back (2004-05?) where a lower-seeded (worse) RIT hosted higher-seed Rochester at RIT and won, followed by hosting higher-seeded Fisher and losing?

    Haha. Well I'm not going to complain when it works out in my favor!  Seriously though, how is the hosting determined? 


    I believe each year the host sites rotate.

    I have no idea how they determine iost sites, except that the host sites are determined ahead of time. I have often thought that the way it works is a problem. It has not really been a huge problem in the recent past. However, imagine what would happen if a team like Fisher or RIT was a higher seed, and had to travel to a place like Geneseo or even worse NAZ. Now, imagine that Fisher or RIT lose that game (a very likely scenario with RIT and Fisher playing a game that is always a tough one), then it comes down to the end of the season and RIT or Fisher lose the E8 Tourny, and miss an at large bid by a game (say a team with the same record like Geneseo gets in because they won an extra game in the Chase Tourny).

    It seems like no big deal at the time, but it could be the difference for an at large bid, or an ECAC invitation. I know that seeing the different gyms is part of the Chase aura, but it has always kind of erked me.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 14, 2009, 09:14:23 AM
    Really nice front page feature on Carson in the D&C today:

    http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20090114/SPORTS09/901140337/1007/SPORTS
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 14, 2009, 12:31:00 PM
    Bamm, I read it, real nice.... Kornaker said a lot of nice things as well.  This has been fun so far........  Naz will be yough tonight. While I don't think they will stop Carson, they don't stop anyone, I am worried IF they are hot, like they were against Stevens. We may need 90 to win tonight.... Also, did anyone catche the Utica Stevens game last night. Another sloppy game. I really don't think either will make the E 8 tourney. Utica looks like they are not comfortable. They did spread out the scoring and got the ball down low which hurt the Ducks. Also, they did what everyone will do against Stevens is play zone. This neutralizes Grey which takes the Ducks completley out. Yea Passalaqua will hit some 3's if they get over late, but give him his 15-18 points. If you keep Grey under 20, there is no one else who can hurt you especially against the zone. Sad, but Stevens doesn't seem to be a factor. Interesting match up with Alfred Friday, this could give PEP a big smile, as a win for AU could definitely put them in a spot to make the tourney...But what do I know ;)   GO TIGERS!!!! 


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 14, 2009, 02:18:54 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 14, 2009, 12:31:00 PM
    Bamm, I read it, real nice.... Kornaker said a lot of nice things as well.  This has been fun so far........  Naz will be yough tonight. While I don't think they will stop Carson, they don't stop anyone, I am worried IF they are hot, like they were against Stevens. We may need 90 to win tonight.... Also, did anyone catche the Utica Stevens game last night. Another sloppy game. I really don't think either will make the E 8 tourney. Utica looks like they are not comfortable. They did spread out the scoring and got the ball down low which hurt the Ducks. Also, they did what everyone will do against Stevens is play zone. This neutralizes Grey which takes the Ducks completley out. Yea Passalaqua will hit some 3's if they get over late, but give him his 15-18 points. If you keep Grey under 20, there is no one else who can hurt you especially against the zone. Sad, but Stevens doesn't seem to be a factor. Interesting match up with Alfred Friday, this could give PEP a big smile, as a win for AU could definitely put them in a spot to make the tourney...But what do I know ;)   GO TIGERS!!!! 

    Dude, don't worry. They're not going to stop RIT. They are way too streaky on offense and they refuse to play defense

    As for Utica, maybe it was just IC, but the Pioneers look REALLY slow, step one wise, off the ball. I don't see them making it, unless they sneak in at 4




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 14, 2009, 08:02:36 PM
    From the live stats it looks like Fisher beat Roberts tonight. It was tight for a while from what I can tell, but Fisher pulled away to win by 17 (I think). Glad to see that they started the Chase with a quality win, but it only gets tougher from here. Hopefully they can get hot, and sneak up on U of R this weekend. Should be an interesting week and weekend with the Chase in full swing.

    I see that Ithaca ran past Potsdam, running up 116 in the process. Do teams just not play D gainst them? I have never seen a team at the college level fill it up the way that they do every game this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 14, 2009, 08:06:54 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 14, 2009, 08:02:36 PM
    Do teams just not play D gainst them? I have never seen a team at the college level fill it up the way that they do every game this year.

    First, Ithaca is very good and can light it up.    And Potsdam just lost their sixth straight game.  They are playing terribly. 

    Naz is epically bad on defense. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 14, 2009, 09:05:58 PM
    Quote from: bamm on January 14, 2009, 08:06:54 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 14, 2009, 08:02:36 PM
    Do teams just not play D gainst them? I have never seen a team at the college level fill it up the way that they do every game this year.

    First, Ithaca is very good and can light it up.    And Potsdam just lost their sixth straight game.  They are playing terribly. 

    Naz is epically bad on defense. 

    And Ithaca's point totals at home are 118, 87, 122, and 116. That's 110.8 pts/game. Dare I say that Ithaca "shoots the lights out" at The Bulb? I'll be here all week, tip your waitresses.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 14, 2009, 09:18:48 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 14, 2009, 09:05:58 PM
    Quote from: bamm on January 14, 2009, 08:06:54 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 14, 2009, 08:02:36 PM
    Do teams just not play D gainst them? I have never seen a team at the college level fill it up the way that they do every game this year.

    First, Ithaca is very good and can light it up.    And Potsdam just lost their sixth straight game.  They are playing terribly. 

    Naz is epically bad on defense. 

    And Ithaca's point totals at home are 118, 87, 122, and 116. That's 110.8 pts/game. Dare I say that Ithaca "shoots the lights out" at The Bulb? I'll be here all week, tip your waitresses.

    hayoooo....do we have to pay for this show...

    Honestly, 110 points/game...that is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 14, 2009, 09:29:20 PM
    Looks like Naz is leading at halftime at home against RIT. I can't seem to find any live stats or any other coverage of the game. Any ideas?

    Any other updates from the other games? I know that U of R took care of Keuka, to set up the game against Fisher on Friday, but how are the other games going?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on January 14, 2009, 09:47:06 PM

    [[/quote]

    And Ithaca's point totals at home are 118, 87, 122, and 116. That's 110.8 pts/game. Dare I say that Ithaca "shoots the lights out" at The Bulb? I'll be here all week, tip your waitresses.

    [/quote]

    I think scoring has as musch to do with game tempo, and the quality of your athletes.  Burton is a very skilled PG who can create his own shots.  Bostic is a very active rebounder with excellent "range"  that means they typically control the boards  and then run a high octane break.  Cruz is very athletic as well, so you have solid rebounding, a great distributor who can also score, and a couple of athletic marvels who can clean up the offensive glass.

    When Mike Deane was running the Potsdam point in 71-72, they averaged 92ppg (pre 3 pt shot) for an entire season, and it was all about tempo.   Typically the shot was going up in 10-12 seconds max.  They played an agressive switching man-to-man, played two strong rebounders who could run, and two wings that could fly and shoot the outside shot.  They created a lot of points from their defense with steals and lightning transition.  Because Deane was a gifted passer, they could also score quickly on in bounds plays etc.

    I'd love to see Ithaca play Grinnell, the Bombers might score 200.

    Needless to say the Bears six game skid has me perplexed.  At least the women (11-1, winners of 11 straight) are on an historic roll.

    I think the three also changes things, as it ups the points per possession if a team is really shooting well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 14, 2009, 11:01:31 PM
    yea points don't do much for me.  Its all about controlling the game.  It doesnt matter if you score 100 or 50 as long as you control the tempo to your strengths is how you win.  UofR is the best overall powerhouse in the region based on past years and they have many slow games in the 50s or 60s especially the year they were in the final 4.  Bport always used to run the scores up but didnt always turn into a success.  If Ithaca gets paired against a team that can handle the tempo and control it (slow it down a little) when it wants to they will have trouble.

    Good win for Fisher tonight, can never tell with Naz, I think RIT is a good team but on a year when the region is not as down as it is this year they are just above average.  Lets see how good they are on the road.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 14, 2009, 11:40:02 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 14, 2009, 08:02:36 PM
    From the live stats it looks like Fisher beat Roberts tonight. It was tight for a while from what I can tell, but Fisher pulled away to win by 17 (I think). Glad to see that they started the Chase with a quality win, but it only gets tougher from here. Hopefully they can get hot, and sneak up on U of R this weekend. Should be an interesting week and weekend with the Chase in full swing.

    I see that Ithaca ran past Potsdam, running up 116 in the process. Do teams just not play D gainst them? I have never seen a team at the college level fill it up the way that they do every game this year.

    Grinnell is averaging about 130 a game.  And giving up almost as much
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 15, 2009, 07:52:40 AM
    Naz-87 RIT 73...I hate when I am right..........  :'(I posted we might need 90 to win if NAZ was hot.)  We shoot 50% from the field and lose....... We were killed on defensive boards....I can't even use my sign off today. Can someone give me an upside to this........It's not a league game ;D...nice try :P  As PEP would write in the 3rd person, FROMAFAR will live to see the another game........
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 15, 2009, 08:45:09 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 15, 2009, 07:52:40 AM
    Naz-87 RIT 73...I hate when I am right..........  :'(I posted we might need 90 to win if NAZ was hot.)  We shoot 50% from the field and lose....... We were killed on defensive boards....I can't even use my sign off today. Can someone give me an upside to this........It's not a league game ;D...nice try :P  As PEP would write in the 3rd person, FROMAFAR will live to see the another game........

    The margin may be surprising, but it is it that surprising that Naz won the game? The first game at Kidera went to OT before RIT pulled away. The Tigers have a solid home mark (5-1) but are just OK on the road so far (3-3). They're still a pretty young team so there will be some ups and downs. I think they'll probably beat Brockport tomorrow (at Clark) and take care of either Roberts/Keuka on Saturday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 15, 2009, 10:13:20 AM
    The bright side of the Naz upset is that it's looking more likely that we'll get a third Fisher-Naz matchup this year. Fisher better not screw this up by beating UR.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on January 15, 2009, 02:21:01 PM
    So, does the Naz win over RIT mean trouble for Ithaca when they meet again in February?  :D
    It is at Nazareth!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 15, 2009, 03:04:33 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on January 15, 2009, 02:21:01 PM
    So, does the Naz win over RIT mean trouble for Ithaca when they meet again in February?  :D
    It is at Nazareth!



    I'm guessing that Ithaca will have little trouble disposing of Naz in Pittsford. Normally, I wouldn't be that confident, and Ithaca has had their issues at Naz, but Naz's lack of commitment on the defensive end must have Ithaca salivating. Naz isn't smart enough (or well-coached enough) to slow the tempo. They can't help themselves and will get sucked into a high octane pace. I'll be surprised if Ithaca doesn't hang 100 on them the second time, too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on January 15, 2009, 04:37:49 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 15, 2009, 03:04:33 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on January 15, 2009, 02:21:01 PM
    So, does the Naz win over RIT mean trouble for Ithaca when they meet again in February?  :D
    It is at Nazareth!



    I'm guessing that Ithaca will have little trouble disposing of Naz in Pittsford. Normally, I wouldn't be that confident, and Ithaca has had their issues at Naz, but Naz's lack of commitment on the defensive end must have Ithaca salivating. Naz isn't smart enough (or well-coached enough) to slow the tempo. They can't help themselves and will get sucked into a high octane pace. I'll be surprised if Ithaca doesn't hang 100 on them the second time, too.

    I'm guessing you realized this, but I just wanted to make sure you knew I was joking. I'm sure IC will handle Naz with ease, I was just poking fun at those who claim their team can beat your team because of the outcome of other games.  ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 15, 2009, 05:24:53 PM
    Naz can beat Ithaca along with Fisher and RIT (mayyyyybe Hartwick, Utica, Stevens on their home floors they are good at home but awful on road. Basically just about anyone but elmira or alfred.  Do i think they will? no, Ithaca has the most talent by far this year.  But its a possiblity especially on there home floor.  If Ryan McAdam is hitting he is as good as anyone, and if cory is playing well he can offset Burton.  I also think Dehimer is way under rated if he were on a normally coached team he would be much more appreciated and his stats would be much better.  However, the lack of roll players allows team to focus on Naz's strengths and they are just horribly coached along with no commitment on D unless there playing Fisher. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 15, 2009, 10:25:50 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 15, 2009, 05:24:53 PM
    Naz can beat Ithaca along with Fisher and RIT (mayyyyybe Hartwick, Utica, Stevens on their home floors they are good at home but awful on road. Basically just about anyone but elmira or alfred.  Do i think they will? no, Ithaca has the most talent by far this year.  But its a possiblity especially on there home floor.  If Ryan McAdam is hitting he is as good as anyone, and if cory is playing well he can offset Burton.  I also think Dehimer is way under rated if he were on a normally coached team he would be much more appreciated and his stats would be much better.  However, the lack of roll players allows team to focus on Naz's strengths and they are just horribly coached along with no commitment on D unin tless there playing Fisher. 

    I know that if we're talking about literally, that anything is technically possible, but I kind of disagree that IC is in trouble against some of these teams.

    Naz: Hey, I know they can score, but you've got one of the worst defenses in all of D-III (They were 388 out of 394 when they were allowing 87 points per game. They are now allowing 90.) Ithaca is one of the top scoring teams in the country. How does that add up to a Naz victory? The closest they got in the second half of their game at IC was 16 points. They trailed by double-digits for the last 27 minutes of that game. This wasn't some fluke victory that was enabled by some small correctable flaw. This was an atrocious defense going up against what might  be the best offense in the country that isn't Grinnell. Home court had nothing to do with it. Ithaca could have scored 140 in that game

    Utica's a little more interesting. They got it down to 7 against IC in the second half. But I can't see it. They just don't seem athletic enough to stay with IC. They had a nice 12-0 to start the second half, but they only scored 13 points in the next 11 minutes. The question is: Can they score enough? IC's lowest point total of the season was 71 in regulation against Oneonta. They've only been held under 80 points twice. Utica is averaging 68 points. I just don't think they have the horses to score with IC. When your average is below a team's lowest output, it's going to be tough to stay with them

    Hartwick: Best shooting team in the E8, and that's a dangerous team. They'll likely try to slow IC down, but here's something staggering: IC has attempted 346 more shots than Hartwick. The Hawks seem to like to work the clock and limit possesions, but if IC gets up early, the slow down pace isn't going to work. If they are able to control tempo and hit shots, it may happen, but again, I do not think they have the horses.

    SJF: Best defense in the league, allowing only 59 PPG. Best opponents shot % in the conference as well. They say good defense beats good offense, but man, you have a SJF team scoring only 63 PPG. I could buy that they could keep IC in the low to mid 70's, but then they'd still need to score, and look at these totals for the last seven games: 60, 63, 60, 36, 48, 70, 72. They have a stonewalling defense, but they'd need to really hold IC down. I just don't see how a team that has trouble getting to 50 some nights is going to score enough points.

    Maybe my analysis is a little too: "How can you expect these teams to score enough?" but really, that's the problem with playing IC. You have to trade buckets with them. All five starters score in double figures and the 6th man, Jordan Marcus, is a 9.2. For teams like Utica, Hartwick and SJF, I just don't see it happening. Nazareth can score a lot, but man, where is the defense?

    IC's only loss came when RIT put up 87 on them. Oneonta got 77 and almost pulled it off. Alfred stuck with them, but would have needed 76 as well.

    Am I saying that IC will be 24-1? No, of course not. It's tough to imagine them not getting cold, or someone else getting hot. But there's got to be a more compelling argument than home court advantage.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 16, 2009, 08:45:44 AM
    Bombers -


    Only argument I have for you is to look at UNC.  Most talented team in the ACC, if not country, by a long shot.  Yet already 2 in conference losses.  I guess my point is, these things just sorta happen, regardless of how good one team is or how bad the rest of the conference may appear.  Just hard to consistently beat decent teams that become familiar with each other.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2009, 09:58:49 AM
    Good points Bombers and I agree.  However, a point is a point.  By no means is RIT an offensive powerhouse and they beat Ithaca.  My main point is yes Ithaca can score and when the do score a lot they will most likely win.  However, when times get tough on the road and some of the shots are not falling, the home team is a good defensive team and are hitting shots they don't usually hit on the road, the games will be tough and they can be beaten.  I don't think the Ithaca team is unbelievable by any means, I do think they are a very good team playing in a weak region right now and shouldn't lose many more games.  As in the past 2 years, once the e8 tourny starts any 4 can win it and as of right now RIT, Fisher, and Ithaca all have a shot of an at large bid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 16, 2009, 10:17:10 AM
    I think this Ithaca team is as good as any of the Fisher teams of the last 6 or 7 years. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 16, 2009, 10:43:33 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2009, 09:58:49 AM
    Good points Bombers and I agree.  However, a point is a point.  By no means is RIT an offensive powerhouse and they beat Ithaca.  My main point is yes Ithaca can score and when the do score a lot they will most likely win.  However, when times get tough on the road and some of the shots are not falling, the home team is a good defensive team and are hitting shots they don't usually hit on the road, the games will be tough and they can be beaten.  I don't think the Ithaca team is unbelievable by any means, I do think they are a very good team playing in a weak region right now and shouldn't lose many more games.  As in the past 2 years, once the e8 tourny starts any 4 can win it and as of right now RIT, Fisher, and Ithaca all have a shot of an at large bid.

    Totally understand. Obviously, IC is human and have been beaten. As another poster pointed out, look at UNC. Basketball is unlike football in that you need to make say, 40-50 shots to score in the 90-100 point range and that is hard to do. I'm not discounting the fact that IC is capable of losing, because hey, they've done it. But Naz, Hartwick and Utica, I just can't see it. Maybe SJF, but that defense had better be airtight for 40 minutes. And clearly, RIT can hang with them.

    But RIT threw everything they had, including the home court, at IC and still needed a half-court "buzzer beater" to come away with a win. I know home court matters and teams play better defense at home, but Naz and Utica lost to IC by 32 and 23 points, and home court isn't going to account for that much of a difference. Ithaca hasn't exactly struggled on the road either.  I had more of an issue with the UC, HC and Naz upset possibility than SJF and RIT
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 16, 2009, 10:54:06 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 16, 2009, 10:43:33 AM
    Ithaca hasn't exactly struggled on the road either. 

    They are 13-1.  They've played 4 home games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2009, 11:14:43 AM
    Bamm, I think they could compete with any without doubt.  However, I dont think they are as good as the 2005 or 2006 Fisher teams.  If you had to go Starter for starter at most 2 Ithaca starters woudl squeeze into the top 7 or 8 Fisher players.

    Bostic over mcsweeney (not even 100% on that one)
    Burton over o'brien? (not even sure about that one)

    Other players
    Mike Mcghee vs Leahy? close but would take Mcghee
    Bennett, Sidney, Beigal over who for Ithaca Brown? not even close on all 3 accounts

    Then you go to the bench:
    Auman, Mueller, and Zahn? all start on this years Ithaca team without question

    Anyways lets not bring up past teams and take away from Ithaca's success this year. you could argue for ever on teams from past. 

    Bombers, agree with your points.

    On to my own statement on the weak region lets break it down.

    Ithaca - #1 best theyve been for past 3 years since bostic and burton have been there and are a credible #1.
    #2 UofR - Much down from previous UofR teams and are still #2 that right there says it all
    #3 RIT - ?? just lost to awful record Naz team? has 4 losses? compare to the traditional #3 team here and its a joke
    #4 NYU - 9-4 way down from previous years as any of their fans can tell you
    #5 Clarkson - I bet they dont finish top in the top 2 in the LL, good start but not great wins
    #6 Fisher - ? youngest and least talented fisher team since 2000. I wasnt sure if they were going to break 500. in this year
    #7 St. Lawrence - I think st. Lawrence is good and would get the #7 here in most years
    #8 - Oneonta State - 9-4? Wouldnt be on any of the previous 5 years regional top 8.

    That being said the only standout team in this years ENTIRE region is Ithaca with UofR having some potential to be considered standout.  They have really good young players with a good system and will get better as the season goes on.  Weak region or not, it is what it is, and hopefully the region can do wel in the NCAA's this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 16, 2009, 11:31:13 AM
    Hey PEP, a win tonight against the Ducks put you guys right in the thick of it.
    Go to 3-2 and losses to IC by 13 and RIT by 4 not too shabby, for someone not given a chance early on.... The 7 point win at Hartwick impresses me. I think you guys should handle Stevens as well. They are horrible on the road and they are just very sluggish and look confused right now. Hey simple, play a zone and you win.....strike up the band PEP.......... but what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2009, 11:45:14 AM
    I think Hartwick and Alfred might will get some good upsets this year on their home floors.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 16, 2009, 01:26:08 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2009, 11:45:14 AM
    I think Hartwick and Alfred might will get some good upsets this year on their home floors.

    Which do you mean, Dynasty?..."might" or "will"? Alfred played E8 leaders RIT (56-52 loss) and Ithaca (75-64 loss, after tied at 61-61 late) tough at home already. Saxons beat Hartwick 89-82 at Oneonta but slipped at Utica (69-65 loss). AU beat Elmira, 90-65 at McLane.

    Remaining E8 home games for Alfred are Stevens (tonight), Fisher (Jan. 23), Naz (Feb. 10), Hartwick (Feb. 20) and Utica (Feb. 21). At this point of the season, Pep thinks only a win over Fisher could be classified an "upset" as the Saxons have been competitive this season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 16, 2009, 01:39:01 PM
    Sunday, February 22 
    6:00 am RIT  at Ithaca

    Copied and pasted this from the Empire 8 Website Men's Basketball Conference Schedule....

    Should RIT and Ithaca continue to roll, is their re-match truly scheduled for a South Hill sunrise at Ben Light?


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2009, 01:52:49 PM
    I think they will get an upset. I say upset based on past seasons and traditional predictions as alfred being down past few years.  Alfred is very competitive this year and it is very hard to play at Alfred.  Hartwick is also good. I guess i meant by upsets most people don't think hartwick and alfred will win games even tho they might actually be the better team this year, if that makes sense.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 16, 2009, 02:55:40 PM
    Predictions for tonight:

    Stevens (67) at Alfred (71)
    Utica (71) at Elmira (59)
    Ithaca (89) at Hartwick (80)

    Brockport (68) at RIT (75)
    Fisher (54) vs Rochester (60)
    Nazareth (72) vs Geneseo (76)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2009, 03:35:00 PM
    Predictions for tonight: Based on Gobombers

    Stevens (67) at Alfred (71)  - Agreed
    Utica (71) at Elmira (59)   - Elmira by 4
    Ithaca (89) at Hartwick (80) - Hartwick by 1 (My bold prediction of the year)

    Brockport (68) at RIT (75) - Agreed
    Fisher (54) vs Rochester (60) - Rochester by little more ill say 12
    Nazareth (72) vs Geneseo (76) - Geneseo by 12 as well Naz will faulter back to back as usual coming off good game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 16, 2009, 08:53:18 PM
    In typical Chase fashion, #4 St. John Fisher upsets #1 Rochester, 71-66. Ozell Franklin with 22 pts for Fisher. Back and forth affair in the 2nd half. Fisher leads by two with 1 min left when UR's Marcus Roberson misses two FT's. Fisher seals the game at the line.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 16, 2009, 09:43:20 PM
    Just back from McLane Center where Stevens played the Saxons tough and won, 75-67. Ducks opened the game with a 10-0 run, using a half court trapping zone defense to stifle AU. Saxons hit a half court buzzer beater to pull within 39-38 at the break, then opened second half with a trey to take its only lead of the game, 41-39.

    Res Life student staff in full force at the game, bringing some signs of life to Alfred, which has been a ghost town since mid-December.

    Saxons drop to 2-4 in E8, Stevens goes to 1-3.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: theoriginalupstate on January 16, 2009, 09:57:32 PM
    First time here on the B-Ball boards, nice to see everyone!!

    Looks like its going to be a Naz-SJF chase final (Naz up by 5 with 30 seconds left as I type)...

    IC only scoring 56 vs Wick in a 56-49 win...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 16, 2009, 10:14:15 PM
    Quote from: Upstate on January 16, 2009, 09:57:32 PM
    First time here on the B-Ball boards, nice to see everyone!!

    Looks like its going to be a Naz-SJF chase final (Naz up by 5 with 30 seconds left as I type)...

    IC only scoring 56 vs Wick in a 56-49 win...

    Yes, Ithaca wins, 56-49. I had someone sending me texts from the game. Hartwick played four corners for 75% of the game. Unbelievable. They waited until about 12 seconds to run their play on offense. Any offensive rebounds would be pulled out and they'd repeat the same offense. Seems like they tried to fried to frustrate Ithaca into submission.

    Bombers led by Jeff Bostic who had 16 pts, 11 rebs and 4 blks. Burton with 12 pts and 7 assts. Cruz and Marcus with 9 pts each. Bombers hold Cocozziello to just 7 pts. Amazingly, Ithaca never trails in this tight one. Nice to see IC take a close, slow game like this one.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: theoriginalupstate on January 16, 2009, 10:35:58 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 16, 2009, 10:14:15 PM
    Quote from: Upstate on January 16, 2009, 09:57:32 PM
    First time here on the B-Ball boards, nice to see everyone!!

    Looks like its going to be a Naz-SJF chase final (Naz up by 5 with 30 seconds left as I type)...

    IC only scoring 56 vs Wick in a 56-49 win...

    Yes, Ithaca wins, 56-49. I had someone sending me texts from the game. Hartwick played four corners for 75% of the game. Unbelievable. They waited until about 12 seconds to run their play on offense. Any offensive rebounds would be pulled out and they'd repeat the same offense. Seems like they tried to fried to frustrate Ithaca into submission.

    Bombers led by Jeff Bostic who had 16 pts, 11 rebs and 4 blks. Burton with 12 pts and 7 assts. Cruz and Marcus with 9 pts each. Bombers hold Cocozziello to just 7 pts. Amazingly, Ithaca never trails in this tight one. Nice to see IC take a close, slow game like this one.



    God my High School JV coach would do that as soon as we got up by 10 in the 2nd half...

    Me and another forward would stand in the corner and just wait...

    We were told to crash the boards with 5 seconds, get the rebound and do it all over again...

    Hated it with a passion!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 16, 2009, 10:37:57 PM
    Nazareth wins 80-74 over Geneseo.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 16, 2009, 10:43:56 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 16, 2009, 09:43:20 PM
    Just back from McLane Center where Stevens played the Saxons tough and won, 75-67. Ducks opened the game with a 10-0 run, using a half court trapping zone defense to stifle AU. Saxons hit a half court buzzer beater to pull within 39-38 at the break, then opened second half with a trey to take its only lead of the game, 41-39.

    Res Life student staff in full force at the game, bringing some signs of life to Alfred, which has been a ghost town since mid-December.

    Saxons drop to 2-4 in E8, Stevens goes to 1-3.




    Sorry to hear that score Pep. I was rooting for the Saxons. But the big question I have that wasn't answered in your post---was the band present for the game?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2009, 10:49:59 PM
    wow i dont think i can ever make predictions again haha.  

    Greattt win for Fisher tonight, I keep getting impressed more and more by the way the come to play on some nights.  Most amazing is that out of the 8 players that played 3 were fresh, 3 were sophs, 2 were jrs. and there best freshmen is out right now.  If these kids keep improving they could have a bright future.

    Great win for Naz as well idk whats flowing in their water all of a sudden, I thought Geneseo was one of the better teams in the region.  Good for the e8 two teams in the championship of the Chase.

    I think Fisher has a really good shot at an at large bid in the NCAA's now as long as they keep there losses at 6 or lower.

    I knew the Hartwick Ithaca game was going to be close.  They are hard to play at Hartwick and like to take teams out of there element.  Good win for Ithaca im sure they had to battle against some adversity there.  

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3lifer on January 17, 2009, 08:18:26 AM
    Hartwick did exactly what teams need to do if you wish to stay in the game with Ithaca and have chance down the stretch, Ithaca can really score the ball. Taking the air out of the ball and keeping the game from going up and down will give you a chance. However Ithaca rebounds the ball well and if you can't compete on the boards then taking your time on offense won't work. The boxcore shows that Ithaca held a +4 rebounding margin last night so it was close.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on January 17, 2009, 09:22:43 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 16, 2009, 10:14:15 PM
    Quote from: Upstate on January 16, 2009, 09:57:32 PM
    First time here on the B-Ball boards, nice to see everyone!!

    Looks like its going to be a Naz-SJF chase final (Naz up by 5 with 30 seconds left as I type)...

    IC only scoring 56 vs Wick in a 56-49 win...

    Yes, Ithaca wins, 56-49. I had someone sending me texts from the game. Hartwick played four corners for 75% of the game. Unbelievable. They waited until about 12 seconds to run their play on offense. Any offensive rebounds would be pulled out and they'd repeat the same offense. Seems like they tried to fried to frustrate Ithaca into submission.

    Bombers led by Jeff Bostic who had 16 pts, 11 rebs and 4 blks. Burton with 12 pts and 7 assts. Cruz and Marcus with 9 pts each. Bombers hold Cocozziello to just 7 pts. Amazingly, Ithaca never trails in this tight one. Nice to see IC take a close, slow game like this one.



    I hate the four corners-delay type of game plan, but what else can teams do against Ithaca. I know RIT beat them, but how many teams have the horses to run with the Bombers who are scoring more than 80 points almost every game and in the 100s for several already this season.

    It sounds like Hartwick had the right idea. Now, I wonder how many other teams will employ similar tactics against Ithaca, because it seemed like it was somewhat effective. Even though Hartwick lost, IC only scored 56 and only won by 7. Ithaca's game plan seems to be run and gun, so if you take the running out of the equation, it might hurt the gunning a bit too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 17, 2009, 09:39:11 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 16, 2009, 10:49:59 PM
    wow i dont think i can ever make predictions again haha.  

    Greattt win for Fisher tonight, I keep getting impressed more and more by the way the come to play on some nights.  Most amazing is that out of the 8 players that played 3 were fresh, 3 were sophs, 2 were jrs. and there best freshmen is out right now.  If these kids keep improving they could have a bright future.

    Great win for Naz as well idk whats flowing in their water all of a sudden, I thought Geneseo was one of the better teams in the region.  Good for the e8 two teams in the championship of the Chase.

    I think Fisher has a really good shot at an at large bid in the NCAA's now as long as they keep there losses at 6 or lower.

    I knew the Hartwick Ithaca game was going to be close.  They are hard to play at Hartwick and like to take teams out of there element.  Good win for Ithaca im sure they had to battle against some adversity there.  



    Fisher did a great job of making their foul shots and attacking the basket.  Not much in the way of post defense however.   Bad night for UR, losing two leading scorers to injuries.  Potentially serious
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on January 17, 2009, 12:17:19 PM
    In the consolation side of the Chase, RIT beat Brockport 62-61, sealing the game with a late FT. Carson with 21 and 12.

    The Tigers will play Roberts in the 5th place game. The game will be at Roberts, the second time in three Chase games RIT will play a lower seed in their home gym. That's amazing to me, but hey, that's what you get for not winning the first round game.

    The IC-Wick game sounds about as boring as basketball can get. I remember a few years ago when UNC was really down (the 8-20 year) they tried that against Duke. Shockingly it didn't work, just like last night. Even though IC only won by 7 that's like winning by 15 in a game played at a normal pace.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 17, 2009, 01:59:26 PM
    I got my first live look at Fisher last night, and I was impressed. They moved the ball well, and appeard to have 5 guys who could shoot on the floor most of the night. I always like it when Fisher beats U of R so last night was a lot of fun for me. But what I took away from the game last night, was that when Fisher shoots the ball well, they can be a very good team.

    If they play the same way they have been the rest of the season, I think an at large bid is a good possibility. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3lifer on January 17, 2009, 03:44:14 PM
    While Hartwick did not win the game particularly by buzzer beaters that go in after time expires and have been unable to convert in big games, I don't think coaches take into account whether fans are going to think its boring this is not the NBA. For all of these coaches in the Empire 8 just like all college coaches this is their livelihood and when they tip it up every game they are doing their best to put together the most effective game plan for their team to win. Ithaca is the class of the league this year based on level of talent and what they have done they are going to take every teams best shot, and I know the standings say RIT 6-0 and Ithaca 5-1 but I think most would agree that Ithaca is still the one with the target on their back and will continue to be.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on January 17, 2009, 09:32:55 PM
    Fisher wins the chase
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 17, 2009, 11:31:16 PM
    Quote from: d3hooperforlife on January 17, 2009, 03:44:14 PM
    While Hartwick did not win the game particularly by buzzer beaters that go in after time expires and have been unable to convert in big games, I don't think coaches take into account whether fans are going to think its boring this is not the NBA. For all of these coaches in the Empire 8 just like all college coaches this is their livelihood and when they tip it up every game they are doing their best to put together the most effective game plan for their team to win. Ithaca is the class of the league this year based on level of talent and what they have done they are going to take every teams best shot, and I know the standings say RIT 6-0 and Ithaca 5-1 but I think most would agree that Ithaca is still the one with the target on their back and will continue to be.

    Hartwick did what they had to do: Slow down the pace. If you want to trade baskets with IC, you've got to be able to hit the mid 80's, possibly more. The only team that's done it this year was RIT and they needed a dodgy call to do it. Right now 22-3 looks very doable for Ithaca.

    The key to winning is to play at your own pace and style. If the Wick had gone aggressive, I think it would have been worse for them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 18, 2009, 03:48:27 PM
    Quote from: GPT on January 17, 2009, 09:32:55 PM
    Fisher wins the chase

    Wow! Congrats to Coach K and the Fisher men! What a well coached team! Who would've thought Fisher would be doing this well?? I certainly did not.

    Looks like they just spread it out and go off the dribble. Newman rarely takes jump shots and wow was Fisher off yesterday (3-17 from 3, Ozell Franklin 2-10). The difference maker, TO's, Naz-13, Fisher 4.


    ...now back to the e-8 for RIT, Naz and Fisher...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 18, 2009, 07:48:18 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 16, 2009, 10:43:56 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 16, 2009, 09:43:20 PM
    Just back from McLane Center where Stevens played the Saxons tough and won, 75-67. Ducks opened the game with a 10-0 run, using a half court trapping zone defense to stifle AU. Saxons hit a half court buzzer beater to pull within 39-38 at the break, then opened second half with a trey to take its only lead of the game, 41-39.

    Res Life student staff in full force at the game, bringing some signs of life to Alfred, which has been a ghost town since mid-December.

    Saxons drop to 2-4 in E8, Stevens goes to 1-3.




    Sorry to hear that score Pep. I was rooting for the Saxons. But the big question I have that wasn't answered in your post---was the band present for the game?

    As stated, the Res Life staff was at the game...but no pep band. Students return this weekend for classes that resume on Tuesday. Pep will get the band together soon as it may be invited to play some at the football banquet again...and then get a hoop plan together.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 19, 2009, 09:40:01 AM
    with the 3 wins I think Fisher will get in and deserves to be in the top 25 in the next poll that comes out.  E8 is looking better and better as the season goes on.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 19, 2009, 10:01:45 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 19, 2009, 09:40:01 AM
    with the 3 wins I think Fisher will get in and deserves to be in the top 25 in the next poll that comes out.  E8 is looking better and better as the season goes on.

    Over on the Pool C board the first rankings are posted.  With a LOT of games left to play, Ithaca is ranked #1 in the region and SJF #4 and holds the 12th out of 18 Pool C bids.  RIT not ranked at this point.  Of course a lot will depend on who wins the conference tournament, but if the season ended today it looks like the E8 would have 2 bids
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on January 19, 2009, 10:22:00 AM
    Fisher looks like they will be a force the next couple of years. They dont lose anybody this year. All the freshman are getting plenty of playing time and that will only help later on. Ithaca is still the best team in the league hands down. But I have seen stranger things happen. My vote for coach of the year if I had to vote today would be for Coach Kornaker, he is hands down the best coach in the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 19, 2009, 12:08:45 PM
    Take a deep breath, Fisher guys.  This is the same team that followed up a 36 point game against RIT with a 48 point win at Utica.

    UR lost Chmielowiec in that game, and it's sort of a big deal when you consider he had scored 11 points in the 11 minutes he played (on top of UR leading when he got injured).

    Be happy about the Chase win and where the young team is at, no doubt.  But hold off on the "Top 25" talk. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 19, 2009, 12:18:04 PM
    why hold off on the talk? There record is very good and they have beatin a ranked team and UofR if who won would have been ranked.  Losing Chmielowiec probably was a big factor however fisher's starting 4 man (Freshmen Wescott) is also out and same with anthony hall whos has been scoring lots of points and playing big minutes.  Either way i think they deserve to be in the low 20's.  I think they have overachieved so far this year and will not finish the season in the top 25 and probably arnt one of the best 25 teams in the country however, to this point on paper I think they should be in.  To your point of RIT and Utica.  Every game is a game, RIT is a tough place to play, Fisher has never played great there same with at Utica.  Is a win by scoring 48 points better than a win  by scoring 90? I dont think so.  The scoring is a concern when they arnt hitting their outside shots and it will haunt them a few games.  As SJF cards pointed out when they are hitting there jumpers they can beat anyone in the region, when they are off they can lose to most teams.  Luckily they play good defense and board well for their height that will prevent them from losing some of they games when they are inefficient on offense.

    Also note, Fisher was already getting votes and were not far inline to break in to the top 25 prior to the chase.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 19, 2009, 12:26:51 PM
    I agree that Fisher is looking good for the next few years. I am really impressed with the freshman that are getting playing time. The sophomores are way ahead of where I thought they would be at this point. Wopperer is much more effective than I thought he would be so far. With Newman and Wopperers coming back next year, with a year for the freshman to develop, and another recruiting class coming in, I this Fisher has the pieces in place for place for a good run the next few years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 19, 2009, 12:32:32 PM
    One more question, and sorry if this has already been covered, but what happened to Wescott and Hall? I noticed that neither of them were playing this weekend, but I did not know that anything had happened to them. Are they injured? Or, is it something else?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on January 19, 2009, 12:41:05 PM
    Westscott tour his ACL against Stevens I believe. Hall I am not sure about but I can find out. I know a few players got hurt for U of R. For the RIT game they shot poorly. It should be a differant game at Fisher. I am sure Kornaker will have them ready for Carson. But who would of thought 3 months ago they would be playing this well. The kid Gettings hits all of his of his foul shots at the end of games which is huge for a freshman.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 19, 2009, 12:47:27 PM
    I see hall is not on the roster on the Fisher website anymore, and he was not on the bench during the games at the Chase. Did he quit or something?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 19, 2009, 01:17:27 PM
    Elmira-Stevens yesterday was postponed due to a leaky roof in the gym - play today at Kean's campus.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 19, 2009, 01:54:24 PM
    If i had to guess Hall got kicked off the team or quit and that is really unfortunate for Wescot. he was a big contributor and was only going to get better as the season went on.  An ACL tear seems like it will put him out for the rest of the season and I dont think he would be eligible to redshirt as he played about half the year.  maybe he could save 2nd semester for his 5th season.  With the losses of those to players, I am not sure if they will have enough depth to continue all of the success so far.  It looks like they did good in the remaining games after the loss but there will def. be times when they miss those contributions
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on January 19, 2009, 02:09:06 PM
    It was possably Grades. He didnt play earlier in the year because of that
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 19, 2009, 03:22:33 PM
    Grades are can be a tough bugaboo at times. I remember a few years back, Carl Jefferson was not able to play the 2nd semester because of his grades. He was a stud...but he just wasn't that into the classroom.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on January 19, 2009, 06:00:05 PM
    I thought Fisher was better off that year without Jefferson anyway. He was a really good player but the team played better without him since he dominated the ball when he was on the court. In the games I saw the rest of the team really didn't seem to enjoy playing when he was out there.

    One of the rumors floating around at the time was that he pulled a 0.0 GPA. You have to try really hard to be that bad in school.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 19, 2009, 06:01:58 PM
    Quote from: tigerfan2 on January 19, 2009, 06:00:05 PM
    I thought Fisher was better off that year without Jefferson anyway. He was a really good player but the team played better without him since he dominated the ball when he was on the court. In the games I saw the rest of the team really didn't seem to enjoy playing when he was out there.

    One of the rumors floating around at the time was that he pulled a 0.0 GPA. You have to try really hard to be that bad in school.

    Once someone brought up Jefferson I knew you'd be commenting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on January 19, 2009, 06:06:26 PM
    It was a tuition problem not grades or getting kicked off.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2009, 07:01:07 PM
    Quote from: tigerfan2 on January 19, 2009, 06:00:05 PM
    I thought Fisher was better off that year without Jefferson anyway. He was a really good player but the team played better without him since he dominated the ball when he was on the court. In the games I saw the rest of the team really didn't seem to enjoy playing when he was out there.

    One of the rumors floating around at the time was that he pulled a 0.0 GPA. You have to try really hard to be that bad in school.

    IC had a kid booted off the team a few years ago for missing class///
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 19, 2009, 08:13:12 PM
    Quote from: GPT on January 19, 2009, 06:06:26 PM
    It was a tuition problem not grades or getting kicked off.

    A tuition problem for Hall or Jefferson?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on January 19, 2009, 08:32:44 PM
    Hall
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 19, 2009, 09:21:48 PM
    Thanks for the info. I always seem to be the last to know these types of things. That is why I rely on the board so much. That is a tough loss for Fisher. He seemed to be coming on, and I was starting to think that he could give Fisher some really good minutes down the stretch. What can ya do? Hopefully Fisher can find a way to move on without the key losses.

    I still think that IC, Fisher, and RIT are in, while the 4th playoff spot is up for grabs. I was somewhat impressed with Naz on Saturday. They can shoot, and they can move the ball. Unfortunately, they do not play a lick of defense. Fisher really did not shoot the ball all that well, and they were ablle to score 76 points. My personal feeling is that Naz and Utica will fight it out for the last tournament spot. Just one mans oppinion, but I think Utica will turn it around, and can sneak some unexpected wins at home. Naz, when they shoot well, can beat the RIT's and Fisher's of the world, and I think they will get in the mix, after a really really bad start.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 19, 2009, 09:29:34 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 19, 2009, 09:40:01 AM
    with the 3 wins I think Fisher will get in and deserves to be in the top 25 in the next poll that comes out.  E8 is looking better and better as the season goes on.

    It's not only how good Fisher did, but how the teams currently in the Top 25 did as well. Fisher was technically 33rd in last weeks poll and in order to jump 8 spots to #25 a lot of teams ahead of them in the #20 to #32 range would have to lose. Anyone ranked higher than #20 probably wouldn't drop out of the Top 25 with a loss during the week. Look at Franklin and Marshall who last week was #21 got beat and only dropped to #24 this week. Anderson and Whitworth #'s 23 & 24 both dropped a game and only fell to 26th and 27th. In this week's poll Fisher moved up 5 spots to #28 which was a good move considering what the teams ranked ahead of them did this past week. If Fisher wins their 2 games this week, then they could be in the Top 25 when next Monday's poll comes out. But if #"s 20 to 27 all have good weeks, they still probably won't make it. If (and that's a big if) they can win the 4 games they have before they meet Ithaca on Feb 3rd then I can see a #24 Fisher (my guess as to where they wil be ranked on Feb. 2nd) playing a Top 10 Bomber squad. That is of course, assuming Fisher and Ithaca both win out until that matchup. On paper they will both be favored as Fisher gets Alfred, then Naz at home before taking on Hartwick and Stevens on the road. Ithaca is at Stevens, home to Elmira and at Utica. I don't think the Bombers will drop any of their 3 games, but Fisher has to be careful of the Naz and Stevens games. As "bamm" stated earlier "they are a young team" I don't think anyone figured they would be where they are at this point. It can all come crashing down with a couple of losses.  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2009, 10:13:39 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 19, 2009, 09:29:34 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 19, 2009, 09:40:01 AM
    with the 3 wins I think Fisher will get in and deserves to be in the top 25 in the next poll that comes out.  E8 is looking better and better as the season goes on.

    It's not only how good Fisher did, but how the teams currently in the Top 25 did as well. Fisher was technically 33rd in last weeks poll and in order to jump 8 spots to #25 a lot of teams ahead of them in the #20 to #32 range would have to lose. Anyone ranked higher than #20 probably wouldn't drop out of the Top 25 with a loss during the week. Look at Franklin and Marshall who last week was #21 got beat and only dropped to #24 this week. Anderson and Whitworth #'s 23 & 24 both dropped a game and only fell to 26th and 27th. In this week's poll Fisher moved up 5 spots to #28 which was a good move considering what the teams ranked ahead of them did this past week. If Fisher wins their 2 games this week, then they could be in the Top 25 when next Monday's poll comes out. But if #"s 20 to 27 all have good weeks, they still probably won't make it. If (and that's a big if) they can win the 4 games they have before they meet Ithaca on Feb 3rd then I can see a #24 Fisher (my guess as to where they wil be ranked on Feb. 2nd) playing a Top 10 Bomber squad. That is of course, assuming Fisher and Ithaca both win out until that matchup. On paper they will both be favored as Fisher gets Alfred, then Naz at home before taking on Hartwick and Stevens on the road. Ithaca is at Stevens, home to Elmira and at Utica. I don't think the Bombers will drop any of their 3 games, but Fisher has to be careful of the Naz and Stevens games. As "bamm" stated earlier "they are a young team" I don't think anyone figured they would be where they are at this point. It can all come crashing down with a couple of losses.  

    Fisher is #28...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 20, 2009, 01:06:55 AM
    I was hoping they'd get in this week after a good tourny.  12-2 record is good enough especially coming from a team that has been ranked the past few years.  Usually it takes a better recored than that from a school that hasnt hit the top 25 in many years.  I Hope im not jinxing them but i think fisher is going to drop one soon to again show their youth and inconsistency.  Coming off a high horse with the chase championship i think will hurt them in the up coming games as they might think they are better than they are.  We will see, hopefully they will win so they can maybe crack top 25 before ithaca.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 20, 2009, 01:17:25 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2009, 10:13:39 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 19, 2009, 09:29:34 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 19, 2009, 09:40:01 AM
    with the 3 wins I think Fisher will get in and deserves to be in the top 25 in the next poll that comes out.  E8 is looking better and better as the season goes on.

    It's not only how good Fisher did, but how the teams currently in the Top 25 did as well. Fisher was technically 33rd in last weeks poll and in order to jump 8 spots to #25 a lot of teams ahead of them in the #20 to #32 range would have to lose. Anyone ranked higher than #20 probably wouldn't drop out of the Top 25 with a loss during the week. Look at Franklin and Marshall who last week was #21 got beat and only dropped to #24 this week. Anderson and Whitworth #'s 23 & 24 both dropped a game and only fell to 26th and 27th. In this week's poll Fisher moved up 5 spots to #28 which was a good move considering what the teams ranked ahead of them did this past week. If Fisher wins their 2 games this week, then they could be in the Top 25 when next Monday's poll comes out. But if #"s 20 to 27 all have good weeks, they still probably won't make it. If (and that's a big if) they can win the 4 games they have before they meet Ithaca on Feb 3rd then I can see a #24 Fisher (my guess as to where they wil be ranked on Feb. 2nd) playing a Top 10 Bomber squad. That is of course, assuming Fisher and Ithaca both win out until that matchup. On paper they will both be favored as Fisher gets Alfred, then Naz at home before taking on Hartwick and Stevens on the road. Ithaca is at Stevens, home to Elmira and at Utica. I don't think the Bombers will drop any of their 3 games, but Fisher has to be careful of the Naz and Stevens games. As "bamm" stated earlier "they are a young team" I don't think anyone figured they would be where they are at this point. It can all come crashing down with a couple of losses.  

    Fisher is #28...

    I think I said that. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 20, 2009, 11:48:34 AM
    Quote from: magicman on January 20, 2009, 01:17:25 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2009, 10:13:39 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 19, 2009, 09:29:34 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on January 19, 2009, 09:40:01 AM
    with the 3 wins I think Fisher will get in and deserves to be in the top 25 in the next poll that comes out.  E8 is looking better and better as the season goes on.

    It's not only how good Fisher did, but how the teams currently in the Top 25 did as well. Fisher was technically 33rd in last weeks poll and in order to jump 8 spots to #25 a lot of teams ahead of them in the #20 to #32 range would have to lose. Anyone ranked higher than #20 probably wouldn't drop out of the Top 25 with a loss during the week. Look at Franklin and Marshall who last week was #21 got beat and only dropped to #24 this week. Anderson and Whitworth #'s 23 & 24 both dropped a game and only fell to 26th and 27th. In this week's poll Fisher moved up 5 spots to #28 which was a good move considering what the teams ranked ahead of them did this past week. If Fisher wins their 2 games this week, then they could be in the Top 25 when next Monday's poll comes out. But if #"s 20 to 27 all have good weeks, they still probably won't make it. If (and that's a big if) they can win the 4 games they have before they meet Ithaca on Feb 3rd then I can see a #24 Fisher (my guess as to where they wil be ranked on Feb. 2nd) playing a Top 10 Bomber squad. That is of course, assuming Fisher and Ithaca both win out until that matchup. On paper they will both be favored as Fisher gets Alfred, then Naz at home before taking on Hartwick and Stevens on the road. Ithaca is at Stevens, home to Elmira and at Utica. I don't think the Bombers will drop any of their 3 games, but Fisher has to be careful of the Naz and Stevens games. As "bamm" stated earlier "they are a young team" I don't think anyone figured they would be where they are at this point. It can all come crashing down with a couple of losses.  

    Fisher is #28...

    I think I said that. ;)

    Like I'm going to read all that? ;)

    And also to Dynasty, while 12-2 is very good, it's not any better than any of the teams in the 20's except for one. They're right on the cusp, and should be there soon if they keep winning
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 20, 2009, 12:38:25 PM
    good point.

    I apologize to other fisher fans i just think there going to faulter before they get there unfortunately. Hope they prove me wrong.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 20, 2009, 01:14:59 PM
    First Fisher deserves being close to top 25.... I don't want to hear who didn't play against them, injuries are part of it... all the top 25 have played teams missing someone.
    Second.. kudos to Hartwick, they did what gave them the best shot, even though it didn't work, it's all about winning and losing, good job.
    Third, kudos to IC, for avoiding a slip with the slow down. They are truly tough.
    Fourth, Naz scares me, they can score with anyone, if they just playa little D just a little.. ( I know that's what they do, justa a little). They may mnmake the tourney.
    Fifth.. my guys RIT will make the tourney. Even I have a little swagger right now... we are for real ;D
    Sixth, Utica is slow but seem to buying into knew coach and system, they can knock anyone off on a good night, except maybe IC.

    Stevens makes everyone play sloppy. They haven't played home yet except at KEAN because of a leak..... Teams have all cuaght on except Alfred in the first minutes the other night where they played man to man, and were quickly down by 10-0... then swithched, that the zone neutralizes them. They have one shooter Pasalaqua, who shoots about 35 % from the 3. Not enough to come out of the zone.  WHERE IS GREY, HE DIDN'T PLAY THE LAST TWO GAMES AND WORD IS NO INJURY????

    Alfred and Elmire bith have heart but no horses, they may pick someone off before long... Hey PEP play a zone next time against Stevens. But what do I know ;)



     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 20, 2009, 01:56:29 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 20, 2009, 01:14:59 PM
    First Fisher deserves being close to top 25.... I don't want to hear who didn't play against them, injuries are part of it... all the top 25 have played teams missing someone.
    Second.. kudos to Hartwick, they did what gave them the best shot, even though it didn't work, it's all about winning and losing, good job.
    Third, kudos to IC, for avoiding a slip with the slow down. They are truly tough.
    Fourth, Naz scares me, they can score with anyone, if they just playa little D just a little.. ( I know that's what they do, justa a little). They may mnmake the tourney.
    Fifth.. my guys RIT will make the tourney. Even I have a little swagger right now... we are for real ;D
    Sixth, Utica is slow but seem to buying into knew coach and system, they can knock anyone off on a good night, except maybe IC.

    Stevens makes everyone play sloppy. They haven't played home yet except at KEAN because of a leak..... Teams have all cuaght on except Alfred in the first minutes the other night where they played man to man, and were quickly down by 10-0... then swithched, that the zone neutralizes them. They have one shooter Pasalaqua, who shoots about 35 % from the 3. Not enough to come out of the zone.  WHERE IS GREY, HE DIDN'T PLAY THE LAST TWO GAMES AND WORD IS NO INJURY????

    Alfred and Elmire bith have heart but no horses, they may pick someone off before long... Hey PEP play a zone next time against Stevens. But what do I know ;)



     

    Fisher is where they should be...very close to the Top 25.

    Naz doesn't scare me at all. They're 0-3 on the road and 7 of their next 10 are on the road. The defense has been better, but still doesn't strike me as good enough to make it. And I'm not sure who they'll pass. They're two down in the loss column to IC and SJF and three down to RIT. So those are tall orders. Could they pass a Utica or Stevens and get in at 4? Possible, but that's a lot to ask for a team that is 1-7 away from home. Then you throw in the fact that they'll have to be away from home for the Conference tourney and the NCAA;s are a pipe dream.

    Could they make the E8 tournament? I guess, if they're lucky. But it's a road heavy schedule with two of the remaining home games being against teams they've already lost to.

    My guess:

    1. IC-- Probably the top team in the conference, the game vs. RIT will determine #1 seed
    2. RIT-- The next 4 games will be critical with a trip to IC at the end, but they should make it with ease
    3. SJF-- Closing with Alfred, Utica and Elmira at home is nice.
    4. Stevens-- 6 straight home games in conference, plus a road game at Elmira smells like a run to me

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 21, 2009, 10:48:31 AM
    Bomber, when I said NAZ may make the tourney, I meant the E-8. Here's what I see. The 4 spot is between Stevens, Utica and NAZ. Stevens has lost to both, albeit in their house, but they have 2 with RIT and 2 with IC.  Yes they have home cooking but looking at the way they play, I can see either Fisher or Utica picking them off at home, and would be surprised to see them beat either IC of RIT at either gym. Hartwick and Elmira were both hanging around against them as was Alfred to some extent. Their bench is young and they don't have a floor leader. I really think it is between Utica and NAZ for the 4 spot... I was at the Stevens game last night. Hartwick did exactly what everyone should against Stevens. Played a zone, gave Passalaqua his 17, held Grey to 15 ( foul trouble), the rest were spead out but total of 60 PTs... Hartwick forgot to score. Give the Ducks credit, they played good D, except for opening of 2 nd. half. BUT what do i know ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 21, 2009, 11:40:12 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 21, 2009, 10:48:31 AM
    Bomber, when I said NAZ may make the tourney, I meant the E-8. Here's what I see. The 4 spot is between Stevens, Utica and NAZ. Stevens has lost to both, albeit in their house, but they have 2 with RIT and 2 with IC.  Yes they have home cooking but looking at the way they play, I can see either Fisher or Utica picking them off at home, and would be surprised to see them beat either IC of RIT at either gym. Hartwick and Elmira were both hanging around against them as was Alfred to some extent. Their bench is young and they don't have a floor leader. I really think it is between Utica and NAZ for the 4 spot... I was at the Stevens game last night. Hartwick did exactly what everyone should against Stevens. Played a zone, gave Passalaqua his 17, held Grey to 15 ( foul trouble), the rest were spead out but total of 60 PTs... Hartwick forgot to score. Give the Ducks credit, they played good D, except for opening of 2 nd. half. BUT what do i know ;)     

    I sort of figured you meant the E8 tourney, but wasn't sure. Yeah, they'll be in the mix for it no doubt. There's so much pressure on that offense to score points. Anything is possible, and the four seed is wide open.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 22, 2009, 02:28:51 PM
    Staying in the city this weekend. I will be at the RIT game against Stevens, as well as the IC game. Both RIT and IC have had a nice rest prior to this game.  Ducks have to at least split to keep head above water ( although Ducks can swim)....... But what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 22, 2009, 08:30:21 PM
    I am happy to see that the E8 has three good teams this year. I really think that IC, Fisher, and RIT are all really solid teams. 3 of the top teams in the region. It is nice to see such good basketball in the E8.

    I think that IC will win the league outright, and get the home court in the E8 tourny. I think Fisher and RIT are interchangable at 2 and 3 (it really does not matter if they play at IC), but I will give the edge to RIT since they beat Fisher by 20 already. Fisher will be at 3.
    I think we can all agree that it looks like some version of those 3 will be in the tourny. But who will be 4th? Like I said earlier I think it will come down to Utica, Naz, and Stevens. But I am starting to change my mind about who will get in. Earlier I said that I thought Naz would get in, but after looking at the schedules (thank you bombers), I am starting to think Stevens will get in with a late push. You never know what your going to get with UC, but Stevens has the talent, and it is a long trip for everyone that has to go play there.

    Is it too early to start talking about POY, and ROY honors?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 22, 2009, 09:31:27 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 22, 2009, 08:30:21 PM
    I am happy to see that the E8 has three good teams this year. I really think that IC, Fisher, and RIT are all really solid teams. 3 of the top teams in the region. It is nice to see such good basketball in the E8.

    I think that IC will win the league outright, and get the home court in the E8 tourny. I think Fisher and RIT are interchangable at 2 and 3 (it really does not matter if they play at IC), but I will give the edge to RIT since they beat Fisher by 20 already. Fisher will be at 3.
    I think we can all agree that it looks like some version of those 3 will be in the tourny. But who will be 4th? Like I said earlier I think it will come down to Utica, Naz, and Stevens. But I am starting to change my mind about who will get in. Earlier I said that I thought Naz would get in, but after looking at the schedules (thank you bombers), I am starting to think Stevens will get in with a late push. You never know what your going to get with UC, but Stevens has the talent, and it is a long trip for everyone that has to go play there.

    Is it too early to start talking about POY, and ROY honors?

    Probably, a bit too early, with 40% of the season left, but it's worth a shot. I see three main POY candidates

    Burton (IC): 21.2 PPG (1st), 7.4 APG (2nd) 92.4% FT (1st) 1.87 SPG (8th) 2.33 Asst/TO ratio (2nd)

    Carson (RIT): 20.6 PPG (2nd) 14.9 RPG (1st) 64.2% FG (2nd) 1.79 BPG (2nd)

    C. McAdam (Naz): 19.4 PPG (3rd) 8.15 APG (2nd) 6.0 RBG (10th) 49.4% FG (8th) 79.8% FT (4th), 2.54 SPG (1st), 2.41 Asst/TO ratio (1st)

    Boy, McAdam can fill up a score sheet, no? He's probably the dark horse in the race, hurt by Naz's poor performance. If they make a run late in the season and sneak into the conference tournament, I suppose he could sneak in there. But if they don't, I can't see how you could pick him over either of the other two

    However, I think it's going to come down to the two best players we've debated a lot on this board. Carson and Burton. And it's ultimately going to come down to two factors:

    1. Do the voters prefer a center or a point guard?
    2. Who wins the conference

    It's pretty hard to compare Carson and Burton on any other level beyond straight numbers because they play such different positions with completely different roles.

    I suspect the grudge match at IC will settle it. It's hard to imagine RIT beating IC again without a monster game from Carson, and if he does that and RIT sweeps the series and wins the conference, that's quite a statement to make for voters.

    It's also hard to imagine the Bombers winning without a monster game from Burton, and if he pulls it off, Ithaca could finish the season something like 22-3. It'd be tough to not take the best player and point guard from a team that good, especially if the numbers are equally impressive for both.

    I think it's too close to call at this point. Until the two teams play again to settle the top dog status, there's too much we won't know.

    I was looking for someone from Fisher to put in there but really couldn't. Team balance and great defense are often lost on the voters, but that should take nothing away from their team or season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 22, 2009, 11:30:11 PM
    Corey MacAdam is a great player, but you know how this stuff works: if it's close, it's going to the senior. MacAdam is a mere sophomore. He will have two more opportunities to win POY (and he probably will, at least once). Besides, Naz's mediocrity does hurt him.

    MacAdam in '10.  Yes He Can!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 23, 2009, 12:03:05 AM
    McAdam can really fill up a box score is right.  However, when seeing him in person I just don't see all of the stats come out on the court.  Not saying that he doesn't actually perform what the stats say I just think sometimes his turnovers outweigh the stats sometimes.  Another thing i noticed, yes he gets a lot of assists bc he creates and then dishes, however, i think pg's that distribute the ball early can be just as effective and create better ball movement.  It seems like McAdam dribbles and holds the ball a lot preventing the offense from flowing.  As far as Carson vs Burton its really hard to compare both are having great years.  I think Burton has better skills and Carson is a workhorse in a league with no big men.  That being said i'd have to give my vote to Carson right now as RIT beat Ithaca  and Fisher and are undefeated in the conference.  Ithaca is probably going to win the league, so I think at the end of the Season Burton will get it and will deserve it.  As of right now tho, I think it has to be Carson.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 23, 2009, 08:55:29 AM
    Bomber, for what it's worth Corey Mc Adam is a junior, and yes he can in '10.

    RIT beat IC in round 1, so if IC holds court, I see a draw ( I am assuming a good Burton effort ) the voting, at that point, then comes the E-8 tourney, and forgive an old guy BUT does the voting take place before or after the Tourney? If RIT wins at IC ( and I assuming it will be only with a good Carson effort), then Carson has a good upper hand going into the tourney. If they split it comes down to Tourney.... I don't think the coaches are going to make their position an issue, whoever wins this Tourney they will get it. IF someone else wins like Fisher or Naz ( sorry I don't see Stevens in the mix, because I see them a lot).... I think it all comes down to which team goes further.

    Stevens to be in the mix has to split against RIT and IC at home. I don't see them beating either at their place. That's at least 2 more losses. They have to sweep Naz Fisher and Utica at home, I think one will pick them off, that would be another loss....... So I am giving them only one home loss against those 5 and two losses on the road, that's 3 more, giving them 6 league losses.  That's saying they beat Hartwick on the road ???  Does 6 losses make the top 4, probably... So if IC, or RIT beat them in Hoboken and I am right about losing only one to NAZ, Fisher and Utica, then they have 7 loses, is that good enough for 4th.......Of course both RIT and IC can beat them then we are 8 losses and it becomes sticky.... BIG GAME looks like 2/15 Utica Stevens........ Watch out for Elmira and or Alfred to pick someone off and vball this all up....

    Stevens doesn't have the fire power... They play good D but they need some more offense...I plan on being at both games this weekend, It should be interesting. But what do I know ;)

     
       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 23, 2009, 07:44:00 PM
    Well, I am pulling for Fisher sweep this weekend. AU has been a tough gym for Fisher. Fisher has gotten some wins, but the games are always closer than they really should be. A young team, after a few good wins in the Chase, against an improving team, on the road. I am a little worried, honestly.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 23, 2009, 10:39:13 PM
    RIT nips Stevens, 56-55.

    Fisher handles Alfred, 77-46.

    Elmira surprises homestanding Hartwick, 72-61.

    Utica comes up with a big road victory over Nazareth, 75-63.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on January 23, 2009, 11:24:41 PM
    RIT/Stevens sounds like an exciting game.  Trailing the entire second half, Stevens has a chance to tie shooting free throws with 1 second left, but can't make them both.  FROMAFAR, did you make it to the game?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 23, 2009, 11:56:58 PM
    I am suprised by some of the scores tonight. I thought RIT would handle Stevens, but it always a tough trip to NJ.
    Looks like Fisher had another impressive outing tonight. I did not think Fisher was going to roll AU like they did.
    And Elmira beating Hartwick? I did not see that coming at all. A big suprise.

    I think it should be exciting tomorrow with Fisher and Naz getting together again. It is always a fun trip. I am trying to convince the Mrs's to make the trip. Fingers crossed.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 24, 2009, 10:50:17 AM
    A quick look around the E8TV and E8 on the air sites, and I can not find any info on the Fisher/Naz game today. Are they really not having any coverage of the game? The wife put the hamer down on me going to the game today, so I thought I could at least watch or listen to it. Any ideas?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 24, 2009, 12:52:12 PM
    BAMM,yes I was there, let me say this, RIT played the sloppiest game they played all year. Give the Ducks credit they seem to make every game a sloppy one wich plays into them.  They played Carson physically all night and he was visibly frustrated. RIT shot as bad as Stevens from the line..... RIT tried something different. They played man, which gives Grey an opening, he scored 20 and became alt time leading scorer at Stevens. Baker actually scored 18 which was unusual, but the man to man and the fact he hit 2 3's, which was something out of character lead to that. The man hurt Passalaqua, he didn't score in second half, I thnk... Young takes a 3 with under 2 to go and trying to milk the lead, shiuld have never taken, BUT makes it............Young had a real nice game.    Baker goes to the hole with a couple of seconds to go, and Korny fouls him. BEST play of the night.....some of Stevens fans were predicetd no way he makes both.....  He missed the first.....   Tigers were lucky to win... I'll take it... This would have helped Stevens plight, they have to beat NAZ and Utica to have a chance at E 8 Tourney, otherwise they end up with 9 losses,  But what do I know....  I'll be at the Stevens IC game tomorrow............I can't see Stevens scoring with IC.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 24, 2009, 05:21:12 PM
    Fisher looking very good against nazareth at Home.  All freshmen in the game at one point for fisher.  They have a very promising freshmen class. If they get another good class next year they will be back to the top in no time.  Ozell franklin has 20 with 10 minutes left.  I think Fisher is looking very good for an at large after this weekend if they pull out this win.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on January 24, 2009, 05:54:33 PM
    Does Naz play any defense Daley has to go
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 24, 2009, 06:07:42 PM
    Quote from: GPT on January 24, 2009, 05:54:33 PM
    Does Naz play any defense Daley has to go

    Not really. It is almost difficult to watch since I think they have the scorers to be a good team. I think if you put the same players in differnt uniforms, and just left the coaches the same, the score would be the opposite as well. Mcadam got into fould trouble early, and that was about it today. It was a slow, workmanlike win for Fisher. Pulling away little by little.
    Missed some free throws down the stretch to let Naz get back into it, but it was all but over at that point.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on January 24, 2009, 06:26:56 PM
    I totally agree it is amazing how daley is able to keep his job
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 24, 2009, 07:34:20 PM
    Very excited to see the Bombers in action tomorrow.  I have seen a handful of games over the internet but have not been to a live game since the Cortland game to start the season. I hope Ithaca is not as rusty and or sloppy as it seems RIT was after the long lay-off.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 24, 2009, 07:46:56 PM
    Eh, I think IC will roll em. It looks like Stevens put up a real tough fight last night, RIT played real sloppy, and Stevens still lost. I think IC wins going away tomorrow.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 25, 2009, 12:50:21 AM
    St. John Fisher's pair of wins this weekend has them primed to move into the Top 25. Every team ranked from #30 down to #20  with the exception of Fisher at #28 and Middlebury at #25 has lost in the past 5 days. Kind of like the perfect storm for Fisher. Would think Middlebury would move up possibly to #20 and Fisher would check in at #24 or #25, but #22 or #23 isn't out of the question.  Ithaca might move up 1 spot if they beat Stevens but it depends on how far the voters drop Amherst. Having only 1 game this week didn't help the Bombers. Will be nice to see 2 teams from the E8 make the Top 25. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 25, 2009, 10:26:01 AM
    I think Fisher will be in the top 25 this week as well. 21 or 22 may be a bit out reach but 24 or 25 looks pretty good.

    Honestly, it is nice to see Fisher ranked again, but I would give up being ranked for 2 wins against Ithaca. It is always nice to be recognized for winning, but it does not earn you any wins. I am more excited to see that Fisher appears to really be back, after a down year last year. Just watching the games this year, the difference between this team, and last years is night and day.
    I don't know what has changed to make the team so much better? Going into the season, not having Beigle and Smalt, Fisher would have another down year. When they lost Chris Baltz, I thought the good start was over. When they lost Hall and Wescott, I thought it would at least be a bump in the road. But the team keeps winning. I know they have not played IC yet, and RIT beat up on them pretty good, but why is this years team so much more effective in the offense than last year? Beats me. Good coaching I guess.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 25, 2009, 02:04:03 PM
    Fisher is a well coached team. Not just Kornaker, but his assistants are great too (they better be good if you got 7 of em). I agree with sjfcards, I thought Fisher was going to have a down year too - especialy after that season opening loss- then throw in the casualties (Baltz, Hall, Evans, Wescott) and I thought they were doomed. However, they've proved me wrong. Everyone has stepped up and Kornaker has coached thhat team to its strengths and look at where they are...about to crack the top 25. Hope they can keep it up and perhaps we'll see the e-8 as a 2 bid conference for the tourney this year.

    And once again I agree with you, cards - Naz has the talent and scorers to be a very good team, but they stink! Whats going on at that end of east ave!?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 25, 2009, 02:49:50 PM
    Stevens and Ithaca tied at 41 after one half. Burton and Jordan Marcus raining 3's for Ithaca. Stevens making their shots, too. Far too many defensive breakdowns by the Bombers. Lack of awareness in finding shooters has left Passalacqua open on several occasions from deep, as well as a defensive miscommunication late in the half leaves a Stevens player wide open for 3 with :01 second left on the shot clock.

    Bostic looks lost on the offensive end. He has this "I know the ball isn't coming to me" look about him. For example, on one play, Leahy caught the ball in the right corner and Bostic was standing on the right elbow. One would think that Bostic would work to get position down low for an easy entry pass from Leahy. But no, he stood at the elbow and let Leahy go one-on-one. I've said it before and it remains true, they are WASTING Bostic's talent right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 25, 2009, 03:21:40 PM
    Ithaca down 5 with under 10 mins remaining, 60-55. Stevens currently on a 9-0 with Gray going to the line. Bombers had momentum after taking a 55-51 lead, but Mullins mysteriously switches to a zone defense right after Passalacqua re-enters the game and, naturally, he hits a 3-ptr to stem the tide.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 25, 2009, 03:35:30 PM
    Stevens takes 68-58 lead only to watch Ithaca respond with a 14-4 run to tie things at 72 with under 4 mins remaining. Bostic just took over on that run. Amazing what he can do when, you know, you get him the ball in scoring position. He's too athletic for the bigs in this league when he goes at his defender off the dribble and elevates.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 25, 2009, 03:50:30 PM
    Bombers escape the Dirty Jerz with an 84-80 win over Stevens. They probably didn't deserve this one, but a win is a win.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 25, 2009, 04:47:30 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 25, 2009, 03:50:30 PM
    Bombers escape the Dirty Jerz with an 84-80 win over Stevens. They probably didn't deserve this one, but a win is a win.

    Every season has a few games where you need to get a break or two. Bombers get one tonight. Ithaca avoids a second conference loss and keeps the pressure on RIT, who has another one-point win. Both teams looking tough. Huge loss for Stevens as they fall two games behind Utica for the final conference spot. Pioneers have won 6 straight, but are hosting RIT and Ithaca in their next two conference games.

    Bombers look a little road weary to me. Amazingly, the team still only has one loss despite having only four games at home to this point. Hopefully, the game Friday at home against Elmira provides the team with a bit of a break and a chance to reset.

    Very quiet 20 point night for Sean Burton. Only 4 assists and three turnovers. But can you get more clutch? Two free throws with 42 seconds to get in the lead.

    Must say, this is looking like a special team for Ithaca. Teams are really throwing everything at them, including home court, and IC is still standing. How great would it be if RIT is say, 20-4 and IC is 23-1 and they play for the conference regular season title?

    Here's a question, if IC and RIT both wind up 15-1 in conference, how do they determine the champ? Best overall record? Highest ranking? Best attendance?

    Fisher will be there too, it's just hard to get the best idea on them as far as conference play goes since they've only played one game against RIT and IC and lost by 20. But it looks like a three horse race right now.

    Both POY candidates have quiet games for them. Burton with 20 and 4, and Carson with 14 and 10. Carson averages 14.5/13 for the weekend,

    What a season
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 25, 2009, 04:53:45 PM
    Bomber I was at the game as well, breaking it down to the smallest point, Stevens shot aover 50% I think, haven't seen the stats BUT, IC played mostly man as did RIT. This gives Grey an opportunity to light it up and attract double teams. It neutralizes Passalaqua, all thout he got off a couple because IC fell asleep. This enabled Stevens to score more than they usually do. They had a nice crowd as well...........Baker hit some 3's an I believe he shoots about 20% from there.  Also Leahy played horrible I thought.  How 'bout you bomber?  What do I know? ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 25, 2009, 05:18:57 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 25, 2009, 04:53:45 PM
    Bomber I was at the game as well, breaking it down to the smallest point, Stevens shot aover 50% I think, haven't seen the stats BUT, IC played mostly man as did RIT. This gives Grey an opportunity to light it up and attract double teams. It neutralizes Passalaqua, all thout he got off a couple because IC fell asleep. This enabled Stevens to score more than they usually do. They had a nice crowd as well...........Baker hit some 3's an I believe he shoots about 20% from there.  Also Leahy played horrible I thought.  How 'bout you bomber?  What do I know? ;)

    Leahy struggled, but when you can bring a freshman off the bench to hit five three pointers, it's really tough to match that depth. Leahy is probably the streakiest guy on the roster, just as likely to throw up 26 as he did against Utica as he did the 6 tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on January 25, 2009, 05:55:30 PM
    Just got back from two very exciting games in Hoboken. The girls game came down to the wire as well as Stevens missed a lay-up at the buzzer to force overtime. I think Stevens gave Ithaca their best shot. As some people have said kids who normally shoot 20% we knocking down shots, they were pumped to play Ithaca and fight for their season. Stevens only has 3 maybe 4 players, the rest can't cut it for them. I agree with GoBombers, Bostic could score at will on their post defense and did for short stretchs in the game. A very balanced attack for the Bombers points were spread around very evenly and a great game off teh bench for Jordan Marcus once again. Jeff Bostic also set the all-time school record for blocks in the game and had a couple of real nice blocks. A lot of other Ithaca Alumni at the game too. I won't be at another game until Fisher travels to Ithaca in Mid-February.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 25, 2009, 05:59:42 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on January 25, 2009, 05:55:30 PM
    Just got back from two very exciting games in Hoboken. The girls game came down to the wire as well as Stevens missed a lay-up at the buzzer to force overtime. I think Stevens gave Ithaca their best shot. As some people have said kids who normally shoot 20% we knocking down shots, they were pumped to play Ithaca and fight for their season. Stevens only has 3 maybe 4 players, the rest can't cut it for them. I agree with GoBombers, Bostic could score at will on their post defense and did for short stretchs in the game. A very balanced attack for the Bombers points were spread around very evenly and a great game off teh bench for Jordan Marcus once again. Jeff Bostic also set the all-time school record for blocks in the game and had a couple of real nice blocks. A lot of other Ithaca Alumni at the game too. I won't be at another game until Fisher travels to Ithaca in Mid-February.



    Figured I'd say this here so people actually read it. Bomber women continue to impress, getting the inside track for a #1 seed in the conference
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 25, 2009, 06:33:48 PM
    I wonder where the Bombers will be this week. They pick up a road win and teams ahead of them dropped some games

    #7 Whitewater 1-1
    #9 Amherst 1-1

    Any idea if they can pass any of these teams?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 26, 2009, 10:15:03 AM
    Bomber 79 etc., I think they will get into the top 10, mayyyyyybe 11.  Yest the games a t Stevens were very exciting and this girl Dudek, is the real deal.......The mens team could use her at the point. I agree, IC is balanced and can get awy with Leahy having a bad night....He plays about 30 minutes though, and that can be a disaster, that may be a reason why it was as close as it was.  Jordan Marcus came up huge and was the difference for sure. Funny thing in that game, someone ( can't re member who) missed a big Foul shot for IC late, and then get's the rebound and throws up a tough 3 right away (which didn't really make sense since IC was leading and this was a big possession) and he hits it.  That's not the funny part, that exact same thing that happened in the RIT game.... a late 3 thrown up with plenty left on the shot clock, and hit.....Both of those shots were huge.......I thought Burton held backa bit, ( he gets 20 and I think he holds back ::)) but he tried to get everyone involved and when Stevens went up 10 with about 7 and change left it looked tough for IC, but this is where they miss a point guard and court savvy.  At this point they needed to maximize their possesions and be smart. They did neither. I don't say slow it down, too much time, but someone has to get them the right shots. Also you need your point guard to be at least at least a 70% shooter, he cannot be a 50% shooter. This has cost Stevens many times..... Another interesting fact. RIT and IC played predominantly man to man. This is going to give Grey an opportunity to create. It will limit Passalaqua, UNLESS the D falls asleep.... then Passalaqua will burn you. RIT did not fall asleep, IC did. Hence Stevens scores in the 50's against RIT and score 80 against IC ( Bakers 2 three's and 23 was uncharacteristic.. he avg. about 8 a game) also increased the scoring....Much better to play a zone and give Passalaqua his 18 points, and hold Grey under 20... that's the formula.....But what do I know ;)     


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 26, 2009, 10:21:15 AM
    Sorry that was 70% Foul shooter not from the field.....Told you I know little.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 26, 2009, 12:43:13 PM
    FROMAFAR -


    I agree that Stevens lack of point guard has, as we predicted, hurt them at times, but I think its more the part you mentioned about possessions as opposed to shooting.  If you look at the 06-07 NCAA Sweet 16 team, Morris was the starting point and only shot 58% from the line.  However, he finished a 30 game season with 142 assists against only 58 turnovers (less than 2 a game).  From your point guard, if you can get numbers like that, you are not only getting more possession, but probably better quality ones.


    Would have loved to see Morris match up with Burton and McAdams.  He wasn't as much of an offensive threat that year, but he had a great back and forth battle with Andrew Olsen from Amherst in the Sweet 16 game.  If anything, it would have been good to watch him and Burton manage a game against each other.  I think this years Ithaca team probably beats the 06-07 Stevens team 6-4 in a 10 game showdown.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 26, 2009, 12:58:23 PM
    Cyclone great point about Morris. Also, I think you pointed out, when they began playing Greco and Morris together they created match up problems for the other team. Greco is actually a 1.5 rather than a pure 1. He can shoot and drives to finish. I think he would have made a difference this year as well. That would have given them a few other dimensions, like Baker around the hole a little more to help on the boards, (which he does well), and another outside threat as Greco could shoot. That would have forced more man to man against them, and open up Grey, and give two outside options....  I'm still trying to see what heappened there. My friends from Stevens, one is fairy young ( everyone young to me) has some ties with a few professors. The last I heard he was in school, however working on an intern program.  Supposed to be a bright kid..... Hey maybe he'll be back next year. That would certainly help them... But I really don't know.....  I digress.... Your right the shooting % becomes secondary... Good possessions make up for poor shooting. BUT your point guard has to shoot well from the line. While Morris couldn't shoot, he samrt enough to give it up in fouling situations and quite often Greco was in late just for that reason. But what do i know ;)   

     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 26, 2009, 07:27:18 PM
    I was just cruising around the east region teams and I see that U of R and NYU already have 7 losses between them. It seems like the New York teams from the UAA, seem to be down a little bit this year (I know those teams are still really good, but compared to their usual lofty standards). I am starting to get the feeling that the E8 can have some success in the tourny if things keep going the way they are. I can see U of R missing the tourny with a tough UAA schedule still to go. NYU as well. Amherst is still crazy good, but they seem to be more human this year, than in previous years. And, the other NY conferences (SUNYAC and LL) don't seem to have a real strong team to contribute.

    I wonder how that will effect the E8 team or teams that get in? Will they force the teams to play some stronger out of state competition in the first few rounds? How about IC hosting a regional as a 1 seed? And without other NY teams really stepping up, if the favorites in other conferences win their tournaments, could the E8 be a 3 bid league? (If RIT splits the rest of the way against IC and Fisher. Fisher gets at least one win out of the 3 with RIT and IC, and IC only loses to one of those teams) That leaves three teams with about 5 losses, something the other conference leaders have already. I know this is a best case scenario, but it will spark some conversation.

    I don't think there is any doubt that the E8 is the best conference in NY this year (I am not counting the UAA in that, my point about U of R and NYU is just that they may not steal spots in the tourny that they have in the past). What does everyone think?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: owen on January 26, 2009, 08:04:40 PM
    I agree ("the E8 is the best conference in NY this year"). Can't speak for the Liberty League relative to E8; but SUNYAC teams have been taking a beating by both E8 and LL teams this year and it seems to be getting worse as the season progresses.

    Currently SUNY is 4 wins 10 losses vs E8, also 4 wins 10 losses vs. Liberty. This '82 Potsdam alum is sad. Very, very sad.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 26, 2009, 08:12:34 PM
    It seems like some of the traditional powers in the sunyac are all having their down year at the same time. Brockport, Cortland, and Potsdam are just not what they have been the last few years. You can usually count on Brockport to be a 15-20 win team. Not sure what the reasoning is, but I am sure they will all turn it around. The programs have too much to offer to stay down for very long.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 26, 2009, 08:15:28 PM
    New top 25 out. IC at 11, Fisher at 21. Way to rep the e-8 boys!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 26, 2009, 08:29:04 PM
    Good to see two teams in the top 25. I can't believe that IC is not in the top 10, but Fisher is about 3 spots higher than what I thought they would be. A pretty strong year for the E8 this year for sure.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 26, 2009, 08:44:03 PM
    I think the best case scenario for the E8 would be for Ithaca and Fisher to run the regular season table, with the obvious exception being a split between the two teams. Then for RIT to win the E8 Tourney. That gives RIT the auto bid. Ithaca would be 26-3 and a virtual lock for a Pool C. Fisher would be 22-4 and also a good candidate for a Pool C.

    Also, surprised nobody is talking about RIT escaping at Hartwick, 59-58. What is it about the Hawks that gives RIT so many problems. This win broke a four game losing streak to Hartwick. It didn't look good early for RIT as Hartwick jumped on them, 15-2, in the first six minutes. Coco gave the Hawks a 58-57 lead with 25 seconds to go, but Marcus Lowe hit two FT's with 15 secs left to give RIT the lead back. Coco misses a 3-ptr at the buzzer. Game.

    E8 Player of the Week: Ozell Franklin
    E8 Rookie of the Week: Jordan Marcus

    Anyone else notice that three Jordan's have already won Rookie of the Week? And all three have won it the last 3 weeks.

    Jordan Marcus (IC): 9.6 ppg, 39.3% 3-pt%

    Jordan Major (NAZ): 11.2 ppg, 35.5% 3-pt%

    Jordan Gettings (SJF): 7.8 ppg, 2.9 rpg

    Looks like they will each have great futures.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 26, 2009, 10:28:45 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 26, 2009, 08:29:04 PM
    Good to see two teams in the top 25. I can't believe that IC is not in the top 10, but Fisher is about 3 spots higher than what I thought they would be. A pretty strong year for the E8 this year for sure.

    Yes although, Ithaca is closer to #6 than they are to #12, so if they can win vs. Elmira and Utica, they should crack it with ease. Given that Elmira lost to IC by 40 there seems to be a good chance of that  part happening, but maybe Utica will be tough at home. They've won five straight, so they are definately hot right now
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 26, 2009, 11:11:53 PM
    Utica, so hot right now. Utica.

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe74%2Fnoslohcin%2Fmugatu.jpg&hash=209241990be19d9f7ad760e9b2a50d97b3065c65)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 27, 2009, 12:00:05 AM
    good points guys.

    Sjfc, very good points on your analysis of the region. I think its an excellent year for anyone on the northeast to go far into the tourny.  The northeast seems to be down as well this year with amherst still being a very good team, are down vs past year. I dont really see any other teams that are completely standing out in the northeast this year.  Elms, mass dartmouth, and middleberry have good recordswith some good wins but im not sold on them yet. They also have bad losses some of them to teams in the east region. When you compare this years east/northeast region vs the west/midwest i think it is very lopsided with the west being much stronger.  I think its a great year for an e8 team to advance far possibly final 4 but once they get there it could get ugly.   Ithaca should have a descent shot at going far, I think fishers lack of experience and size will hurt them too much in the tourny.  I do think they will get in this year with an atlarge if they dont win the tourny.  The region overall is so weak, UofR might be able to squeeze in even with a large amount of losses.  The overall records this year for the teams so far in the east are very bad versus past years excluding fisher (I cant believe their record right now) and ithaca.  I think oswego will win the sunyac and if they do will be a tough match up for teams in the 1st round of the tourny same with hamilton/st. lawrence.  I think those 3 may be close to as good as ithaca talent wise.  As far as fisher, if they are hitting 3's they can also beat any of these teams, it just really sucks they are down about 4 people all who would get big minutes not even including the 3 bigs that transferred or quit at the end of last year or prior to the season starting. Once Dan evens 6'8 went down, matt haley 6'8 quit, kyle stevens 6'6 transfered to geneseo, and the other 6'7 wide body who had a lot of potential quit last year. I thought they were doomed.  Then through in anthony hall who was starting to fill up the box score and there best freshmen and starting 4 man going down with a torn acl they are still 12-2 playing mostly freshmen and sophmores.  It is pretty crazy. 

    I think the e8 does have a shot at getting 3 in, gobombers put a pretty good example up for it to happen.  with the sunyac looking like only a 1 team bid, same with LL at this point and i think definatly only nyu or uofr will get in. e8 can fit 3 in.  typically sunyac has 2 sometimes 3, both nyu and uofr get int, e8 has had two past few years, and ll sometime 2.  I think e8 can get 3 in as long as both fisher and rit finish with 6 or less losses. 

    Unfortunately this is ithaca's first really good year in a while therefore, they arn't in the top 10.  I think fisher deserves to be 21 do to their record and past success. Either way, great for e8 with two teams in.  Also, now that I have thought about it fisher lost there first game of the season to a ranked team. since then has gone 14-1 including wins over st. mary's #17 and UofR (always good to beat them), not too shabby.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 27, 2009, 12:25:26 PM
    I agree, it is pretty crazy that Fisher has been able to continue to win the way that they have this year. Although it is tough that they don't have a ton of size, I like what Kornaker is doing with what they have. It is like the undefeated season when instead of using one real solid big man, they switched to a "big man alliance". Take Wopperer's, Witte's, and Stearn's stats by themselves, eh not that impressive. Take their stats together and it is much more impressive.

    I think Fisher is in a great spot to get an at large bid. Take the worse case scenario; Fisher loses to RIT again, loses to IC tiwce, and loses in the tourny. If they can avoid a loss to the other teams in the conference, they would be like 23/24 and 6. I think that would be enough to get in with a win against a ranked team and U of R. Plus some other teams not scooping up bids that they usually would (say a u of r, or an NYU?).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 27, 2009, 03:31:52 PM
    I agree I think they play to their strengths very well.  In the east region you can get by without bigs.  I think the are more comparable to the 2001 team with st. croix, berwanger, sidney, bennett, ripple and morely off the bench.  A lot of 6-3 to 6-5 guys who can penetrate and spread the defense.  The big man alliance the bigs were actually bigs with mcsweeney, zahn, hepburn, smalt, and beigel. Those players are  bigger than witte, stearn and wopperer.

    But I think an at large bid is looking reat at this point.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 27, 2009, 06:21:58 PM
    That is a good point Dynasty about the 2001 team. The Alliance did have the true bigs that you mention. Especially Hepburn who was just huge for DIII, and a very talented (and also very young)McSweeny. Zahn was more of a shooting big who liked to play about 5-10 feet from the basket, but still very talented.

    I think the point that we are both agreeing on is that Fisher has found success in the past with above average play and size at guard, and limited size and skill inside. I still think Fisher is overachieving a bit this year and that they are still a year or two away from really being back on the path to a regional power. Another recruiting class, especially if Kornaker can find a big skilled big man will really put them into another level.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on January 27, 2009, 07:22:08 PM
    Hate to be a contrarian but it truly is way too early about the e-8 getting 3 bids let alone 2 bids to the dance.  St John Fisher has been playing great and I am rooting for them to do well but they are coming into the teeth of the storm in their next 6 games. @ Hartwick @ Stevens the next night then Ithaca twice along with RIT and @ Naz. They win 5 of the 6 then I think you can talk about a bid as real.  They lose 3 of the six they may have to win the tournament to get a bid. 6 loss bids are not handed out like candy to east teams. RIT with 4 losses probably can not afford many more either.  So I guess the only "real" bid I see now is Ithaca and if Ithaca wins the tourney RIT or ST John Fisher better be losing to them in the championship game for their 6th loss. Hey I hope after the next 2 weeks I am proved wrong.  Also do not discount the Liberty League just yet.  St Lawrence & Hamilton have both played brutal schedules probably more difficult out of conference schedules than any e-8 team so a 6 loss non-championship bid would have to be at least considered for either one of those teams versus a 6 loss bid for St John Fisher or RIT.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 28, 2009, 09:24:18 AM
    With age is correct, for whatever my 2 cents is worth. Let's not jump the gun here. I believe the only way the E 8 gets 2 bids is if IC loses the tourney. The winner get's the auto and IC gets in....as long as IC gets in.  Renmember Stevens was ranked 12 in the polls around this time last year, maybe a little earlier, and wthey ended with 6 losses, losing to NAZ who won the tourney, and they didn't get a bid..  I too hope I'm wrong but hey RIT is not even on the map as far as rankings right now. Fisher has a tough road ahead. I can't see Fisher, RIT or IC not making the E-8, that is a lock..... The 4th spot is a 3 team race, maybe only 2.  Lets say 8-8 makes the 4th spot.  For that to happen (easy I may get something balled up here) NAZ can only lose 3 more games, and they would be @ RIT @ IC and home against Fisher, they must win the rest.  Utica who ahs the best shot can lose to RIT, IC, Fisher, Naz and Stevens.  Stevens can lose to IC, RIT and Fisher.  Therefore big games are obviuosly heads up. If any two of those 3 are tied, Or all 3 the team with the best road record will get the nod, that would be Naz believe it or not, since they have to win on the road late to get to 8-8.....So as with age said, way too early to be predicting anything........ By the way my guys are sleep walking.... Carson has been less than a POY lately... still nice numbers but not Carsonesque..... NAZ actually played alittle D in the 2nd half the other night, hold ALFRED to 30% from the field.    But what do I know ;) 


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 28, 2009, 09:27:29 AM
    Great point With age came.  Its hard not to get really optimistic with the success fisher has had so far but you layed it on the table very well with their upcoming schedule.  They could very easily drop3 maybe 4 games out of their next six.  

    However, do to the number of losses the other teams have in the other conferences i think they will still get in with 6 losses this year.  There are no teams in sunyac worthy of an autobid this year same with the uaa east region teams.  That being said, i think the liberty league can squeeze an auto bid in being hamilton or st lawrence depending on who wins the league.  However, they both already have 2 more losses than fisher and might drop a few more games.  Either way there is enough room this year for auto bids from LL and E8.  3 from e8 is pushing it but is not out of the question if hamilton and and lawrence fumbles a few more games and don't win their league.

    My predictions over your 6 game stretch for fisher.

    Ithaca at Fisher - Fisher
    Fisher at Ithaca - Ithaca
    RIT at Fisher - Fisher
    Fisher at Stevens - Stevens
    Fishter at Hartwick - Fisher
    Fisher at Naz - Naz

    I think they will drop 3 out of the 6 with very possible losses to ithaca twice and maybe RIT again.  We'll see.  I think an important point this year as well is the northeast teams arent all that strong compared to normal either, there are lot more teams in the 5-6 loss range versus the 1-3 loss teams like normal.  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 28, 2009, 09:27:50 AM
    A little more.... It is possible for Stevens, Utica, and NAZ to all be 8-8 and split with one another, thus the road record becomes an issue.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 28, 2009, 09:34:41 AM
    Fisher D, don't leave out that Utica game at Fisher late.... Utica could be fighting for their life and they won't go down easy, Although I always feel, Fisher is the toughest place to win..........    Also, your right about other leagues being on the down, so 2 is still possible if IC wins the e-8 tourney, BUT that team they play in the chamionship game better be RIT or Fisher, or all bets are off, but what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 28, 2009, 10:02:02 AM
    I get that this is the E-8 board and therefore, it rightfully slants to the "home" team.  But I think you underestimate the UAA teams in the East region.  NYU has 3 losses, with some more likely.  But they have the same opportunity as any of the E-8 teams to control their destiny - against better competition as a whole.  Same is true of UR.  Four losses to ranked teams, three of them winable, and the opportunity to control their destiny.  Mike C needs to be healthy and the freshmen/sophs need to continue to play at a high level, but I wouldn't count them out.  Issue with both NYU & UR will be UAA travel and how they deal with that.  Just saying...don't go giving away all the east region berths just yet.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 28, 2009, 12:23:18 PM
    did i leave it out, oops my mistake.  I think fisher will win since they won at utica which is very hard to come out of with a win, but will be a good game im sure.  I dont think it matters if fisher and rit gets to the championship or not, obviously its going to depends on how the rest of the season pans out but if fisher ends the regular season with 4 losses and losses first round of e8 tourny, they are in the tourny no doubt about it.  Same with RIT.

    I tihnk UofR OR Nyu will get in the tourny but not both.  I think uofR is better and I think NYU will come out with more losses by season end.  I think NYU and UofR are both good enought to get in with a lower seed however, I think one out of the two will have too many losses.  Losses to good teams or not, the NCAA doesnt favor strength of schedule too much.  Ex. NY with 7 losses wont get in over hamilton with 5.

    To be honest we shouldnt be giving away anything with regards to the ncaa tourny yet its wayy to early, but i just brought it up for discussion.  I think fisher will start to faulter on the 2nd half of the season, but they have proven me wroing all season so what do I know.  I just know to this point with only 2 losses and have played a descent schedule ncaa tourny is looking very good.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 28, 2009, 12:37:37 PM
    For the Empire 8 to get 2 bids a lot has to go right. But lets say fisher Fisher wins every game from here on, except they split with IC. In that case Fisher would have 3 losses going into the tourny. They lose to RIT in the first round, and RIT then losses to IC in the Championship. That would be 4 losses for Fisher. That would get them in. Again, a lot has to go right, but there is several scenarios that could get two teams in.

    NYU and U of R are still very good teams that do control much of their own destiny to get into the tournament. I think it is the tough schedules that they play down the stretch that will eventually keep them out. U of R has 4 losses already, including a loss to Fisher. U of R has a much tougher road the next couple of weeks. Fisher really just has to match them (they still have a loss or two to play with), and the head to head win can/should really help them get in.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 28, 2009, 12:44:56 PM
    One more quick thought; I get why it is really tough for the E8 to get 3 or even 2 teams into the tourny. My earlier point about getting two (a long shot for 3) in is based on the head start that the E8 teams have. If the season ended today, I would think that IC and Fisher are in. RIT has a comparable resume to the Liberty League teams. Fisher has some losses to play with before Hamilton and St. Lawrence have a claim to their bid. RIT is about even. Fisher and RIT, because of their good start have a chance to play even with the other conferences best teams the rest of the way, and they should (Fisher) and can (RIT) have a claim to a at large bid over those teams.

    I know we talked about this earlier, but I think the E8 is the best conference in the state this year (not including the UAA obviously), so heads up, why wouldn't Fisher or RIT get an at large.
    Having said all that, I think the E8 is in line for 2 bids as it stands right now. If Fisher keeps winning games, then I think they should be able to steal a bid. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 28, 2009, 01:08:22 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 28, 2009, 12:44:56 PM
    One more quick thought; I get why it is really tough for the E8 to get 3 or even 2 teams into the tourny. My earlier point about getting two (a long shot for 3) in is based on the head start that the E8 teams have. If the season ended today, I would think that IC and Fisher are in. RIT has a comparable resume to the Liberty League teams. Fisher has some losses to play with before Hamilton and St. Lawrence have a claim to their bid. RIT is about even. Fisher and RIT, because of their good start have a chance to play even with the other conferences best teams the rest of the way, and they should (Fisher) and can (RIT) have a claim to a at large bid over those teams.

    I know we talked about this earlier, but I think the E8 is the best conference in the state this year (not including the UAA obviously), so heads up, why wouldn't Fisher or RIT get an at large.
    Having said all that, I think the E8 is in line for 2 bids as it stands right now. If Fisher keeps winning games, then I think they should be able to steal a bid. 

    As somebody said somewhere (or maybe it was the voices in my head), conference tournaments will have a big impact in the final dispersal of bids.  I really can't see more than 1 LL team getting a bid.  But if Hamilton wins the regular season and then looses in their tournament, well that messes things up.  Hamilton was smart this year.  They are currently ranked #2 in the east (over on the Pool C page) by virtue of being 9-1 in region.  Getting hammered by the 4 good teams they played doesn't hurt so bad when 3 are out of region. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 28, 2009, 01:26:40 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on January 28, 2009, 01:08:22 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 28, 2009, 12:44:56 PM
    One more quick thought; I get why it is really tough for the E8 to get 3 or even 2 teams into the tourny. My earlier point about getting two (a long shot for 3) in is based on the head start that the E8 teams have. If the season ended today, I would think that IC and Fisher are in. RIT has a comparable resume to the Liberty League teams. Fisher has some losses to play with before Hamilton and St. Lawrence have a claim to their bid. RIT is about even. Fisher and RIT, because of their good start have a chance to play even with the other conferences best teams the rest of the way, and they should (Fisher) and can (RIT) have a claim to a at large bid over those teams.

    I know we talked about this earlier, but I think the E8 is the best conference in the state this year (not including the UAA obviously), so heads up, why wouldn't Fisher or RIT get an at large.
    Having said all that, I think the E8 is in line for 2 bids as it stands right now. If Fisher keeps winning games, then I think they should be able to steal a bid. 

    As somebody said somewhere (or maybe it was the voices in my head), conference tournaments will have a big impact in the final dispersal of bids.  I really can't see more than 1 LL team getting a bid.  But if Hamilton wins the regular season and then looses in their tournament, well that messes things up.  Hamilton was smart this year.  They are currently ranked #2 in the east (over on the Pool C page) by virtue of being 9-1 in region.  Getting hammered by the 4 good teams they played doesn't hurt so bad when 3 are out of region. 

    Fair enough, that is a good point.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 28, 2009, 01:45:08 PM
    OK, lets have a little fun here, WHAT IF, let's say UTICA is the 4 seed and wins the Tourney, let's say they beat IC in final, does Fisher get the bid if Utica beat them, or does RIT? Or just IC and Utica?  I know it's a long shot, but as someone said just for discussion purposes. I think we are all agreeing unless a total collapse, not likely IC is in. I really believe the only way we get a second team in is if they play in the final, can lose to IC but must have 4 loses or less. 5 Losses doesn't cut it........But what do I know ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 28, 2009, 01:50:45 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 28, 2009, 01:45:08 PM
    OK, lets have a little fun here, WHAT IF, let's say UTICA is the 4 seed and wins the Tourney, let's say they beat IC in final, does Fisher get the bid if Utica beat them, or does RIT? Or just IC and Utica?  I know it's a long shot, but as someone said just for discussion purposes. I think we are all agreeing unless a total collapse, not likely IC is in. I really believe the only way we get a second team in is if they play in the final, can lose to IC but must have 4 loses or less. 5 Losses doesn't cut it........But what do I know ;) 

    Does give you something to think about when the CNY weather is crappy.  Which is hardly ever........
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 28, 2009, 01:52:08 PM
    lets continue the discussion in about 2 weeks i have a feeling a lot is going to change by then.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 28, 2009, 01:54:07 PM
    Fisher is right again........ ;D A lot can and probably will happen.......back to work >:(
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 30, 2009, 12:54:19 PM
    Big slate of games this weekend. Utica and Stevens are each hosting two huge games. This weekend may reveal with a fair amount of certainty the four teams in the E8 Tourney. Here's my best guess:

    FRIDAY

    Fisher (65) at Hartwick (58)
    Nazareth (83) at Stevens (87)
    RIT (64) at Utica (67)
    Elmira (76) at Ithaca (107)

    Hartwick's play has dropped off a bit since the start of the season while Fisher's has taken off. I think the Cards play a good road game and win somewhat comfortably. Naz crushed Stevens on East Ave. the first time around, but things should be different in Hoboken. Stevens blew consecutive second half double-digit leads to RIT and Ithaca last week; I think they pull this one out. Ithaca will steamroll Elmira. Finally, I like Utica in a tight one against RIT. The Tigers made harrowing escapes from both of their games last weekend. Utica, winners of seven straight, are playing their best ball of the season. I'm giving this one to the home team.

    SATURDAY

    RIT (76) at Elmira (62)
    Ithaca (76) at Utica (81)

    RIT earns a weekend split by handling Elmira. Utica scares me in this one. They're hot and they're always good at home. Ithaca has historically struggled in Utica. The result in Ithaca means little to me since Ithaca almost always handles Utica on the South Hill, even going back to when Utica would challenge Fisher at the top of the league, but would rip Ithaca in Utica. The Utica defense will make Burton work. Ithaca really needs Bostic and Leahy to come up big in this one. I see Utica leading by about 10 with 5 mins left, followed by a furious Ithaca rally that comes up just short as Utica makes their FT's down the stretch. This will be Ithaca's first legitimate loss in regulation  ;D

    SUNDAY

    Nazareth (74) at Hartwick (82)
    Fisher (70) at Stevens (73)

    Hartwick owns Nazareth, not much needs to be said about that one. I think Stevens pulls the upset on Sunday afternoon against a young Fisher team. Stevens has been better of late and this will be the end of a long weekend for the Cardinals. I think Fisher is due for a slip and it happens in Hoboken on Sunday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 30, 2009, 04:30:40 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 30, 2009, 12:54:19 PM
    Big slate of games this weekend. Utica and Stevens are each hosting two huge games. This weekend may reveal with a fair amount of certainty the four teams in the E8 Tourney. Here's my best guess:
    inners of seven straight, are playing their best ball of the season. I'm giving this one to the home team.

    SATURDAY

    Ithaca (76) at Utica (81)

    Utica scares me in this one. They're hot and they're always good at home. Ithaca has historically struggled in Utica. The result in Ithaca means little to me since Ithaca almost always handles Utica on the South Hill, even going back to when Utica would challenge Fisher at the top of the league, but would rip Ithaca in Utica. The Utica defense will make Burton work. Ithaca really needs Bostic and Leahy to come up big in this one. I see Utica leading by about 10 with 5 mins left, followed by a furious Ithaca rally that comes up just short as Utica makes their FT's down the stretch. This will be Ithaca's first legitimate loss in regulation  ;D


    Utica is playing very well right now, however, I was at the IC-UC game earlier this year and UC looked very slow and not quick.

    Utica's been a place where Ithaca has struggles, yes, but this team is not like those other teams. I think the Pioneers keep it close, but lose 81-71
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on January 30, 2009, 05:06:35 PM
    Hartwick has played well but just can't get over the hump...but I look for them to pull the upset tonight. Fisher slips, but bounces back at Stevens.

    my picks:

    Friday:
    Hartwick over Fisher
    RIT over Utica
    Ithaca blows out Elmira
    Stevens does the same to Naz

    Saturday

    RIT and Ithaca both win comfortably

    Sunday

    Hartwick beats Naz
    Fisher tops Stevens


    I won't be so bold as to predict scores, my neck doesn't strecth that far!


    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 30, 2009, 12:54:19 PM
    Big slate of games this weekend. Utica and Stevens are each hosting two huge games. This weekend may reveal with a fair amount of certainty the four teams in the E8 Tourney. Here's my best guess:

    FRIDAY

    Fisher (65) at Hartwick (58)
    Nazareth (83) at Stevens (87)
    RIT (64) at Utica (67)
    Elmira (76) at Ithaca (107)

    Hartwick's play has dropped off a bit since the start of the season while Fisher's has taken off. I think the Cards play a good road game and win somewhat comfortably. Naz crushed Stevens on East Ave. the first time around, but things should be different in Hoboken. Stevens blew consecutive second half double-digit leads to RIT and Ithaca last week; I think they pull this one out. Ithaca will steamroll Elmira. Finally, I like Utica in a tight one against RIT. The Tigers made harrowing escapes from both of their games last weekend. Utica, winners of seven straight, are playing their best ball of the season. I'm giving this one to the home team.

    SATURDAY

    RIT (76) at Elmira (62)
    Ithaca (76) at Utica (81)

    RIT earns a weekend split by handling Elmira. Utica scares me in this one. They're hot and they're always good at home. Ithaca has historically struggled in Utica. The result in Ithaca means little to me since Ithaca almost always handles Utica on the South Hill, even going back to when Utica would challenge Fisher at the top of the league, but would rip Ithaca in Utica. The Utica defense will make Burton work. Ithaca really needs Bostic and Leahy to come up big in this one. I see Utica leading by about 10 with 5 mins left, followed by a furious Ithaca rally that comes up just short as Utica makes their FT's down the stretch. This will be Ithaca's first legitimate loss in regulation  ;D

    SUNDAY

    Nazareth (74) at Hartwick (82)
    Fisher (70) at Stevens (73)

    Hartwick owns Nazareth, not much needs to be said about that one. I think Stevens pulls the upset on Sunday afternoon against a young Fisher team. Stevens has been better of late and this will be the end of a long weekend for the Cardinals. I think Fisher is due for a slip and it happens in Hoboken on Sunday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 30, 2009, 09:12:45 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 30, 2009, 04:30:40 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 30, 2009, 12:54:19 PM
    Big slate of games this weekend. Utica and Stevens are each hosting two huge games. This weekend may reveal with a fair amount of certainty the four teams in the E8 Tourney. Here's my best guess:
    inners of seven straight, are playing their best ball of the season. I'm giving this one to the home team.

    SATURDAY

    Ithaca (76) at Utica (81)

    Utica scares me in this one. They're hot and they're always good at home. Ithaca has historically struggled in Utica. The result in Ithaca means little to me since Ithaca almost always handles Utica on the South Hill, even going back to when Utica would challenge Fisher at the top of the league, but would rip Ithaca in Utica. The Utica defense will make Burton work. Ithaca really needs Bostic and Leahy to come up big in this one. I see Utica leading by about 10 with 5 mins left, followed by a furious Ithaca rally that comes up just short as Utica makes their FT's down the stretch. This will be Ithaca's first legitimate loss in regulation  ;D


    Utica is playing very well right now, however, I was at the IC-UC game earlier this year and UC looked very slow and not quick.Utica's been a place where Ithaca has struggles, yes, but this team is not like those other teams. I think the Pioneers keep it close, but lose 81-71

    That's what I'm talking about, Bombers, when I say that the result in Ithaca is not at all indicative of what happens in Utica when these two teams met. Often, Ithaca would handle Utica in the bulb only to have the pasting reciprocated when the two teams met at Utica. I'd find myself thinking "were these the same two teams that played in Ithaca four weeks ago." Historically, these are two teams that defend their home courts very well, but are sub-par on the road. I hope the Bombers win, but if history is a guide, Ithaca may be in trouble.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 30, 2009, 11:20:33 PM
    Fisher's ranking just took a tumble with the loss to Hartwick. This could come back and haunt them big time if they're looking for a pool C bid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 31, 2009, 12:14:56 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 30, 2009, 09:12:45 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 30, 2009, 04:30:40 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 30, 2009, 12:54:19 PM
    Big slate of games this weekend. Utica and Stevens are each hosting two huge games. This weekend may reveal with a fair amount of certainty the four teams in the E8 Tourney. Here's my best guess:
    inners of seven straight, are playing their best ball of the season. I'm giving this one to the home team.

    SATURDAY

    Ithaca (76) at Utica (81)

    Utica scares me in this one. They're hot and they're always good at home. Ithaca has historically struggled in Utica. The result in Ithaca means little to me since Ithaca almost always handles Utica on the South Hill, even going back to when Utica would challenge Fisher at the top of the league, but would rip Ithaca in Utica. The Utica defense will make Burton work. Ithaca really needs Bostic and Leahy to come up big in this one. I see Utica leading by about 10 with 5 mins left, followed by a furious Ithaca rally that comes up just short as Utica makes their FT's down the stretch. This will be Ithaca's first legitimate loss in regulation  ;D


    Utica is playing very well right now, however, I was at the IC-UC game earlier this year and UC looked very slow and not quick.Utica's been a place where Ithaca has struggles, yes, but this team is not like those other teams. I think the Pioneers keep it close, but lose 81-71

    That's what I'm talking about, Bombers, when I say that the result in Ithaca is not at all indicative of what happens in Utica when these two teams met. Often, Ithaca would handle Utica in the bulb only to have the pasting reciprocated when the two teams met at Utica. I'd find myself thinking "were these the same two teams that played in Ithaca four weeks ago." Historically, these are two teams that defend their home courts very well, but are sub-par on the road. I hope the Bombers win, but if history is a guide, Ithaca may be in trouble.

    I understand your logic, and frankly, if the Bombers play like they did tonight, they WILL lose.

    The issue I have is that we can't use history as a guide for the Bombers because they've never been this good. They're 16-1 and that one loss was dicey. Comparing this squad to any other, even last year's, is comparing apples to oranges

    As for tonight's game, boy was Ithaca fortunate to be playing Elmira. Team looked awful in stretches, especially with interior defense and perimeter shooting. Outscored 45-35 over a 20 minute stretch spanning the halves and only led 56-55 with 14 minutes left. Amazingly, team scored 41 points in the next 11 minutes to make the score look more impressive than it was.

    On a side note, Ithaca's crowd, while numerous, was a disgrace. Chanting venereal diseases out when players are shooting free throws is not witty. It's classless and the school should be embarrassed that this passes for fan support. I've been going to IC basketball games for 15 years, and I've never seen something like that.

    Rant over. Go Bombers!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 31, 2009, 11:30:26 AM
    Quote from: magicman on January 30, 2009, 11:20:33 PM
    Fisher's ranking just took a tumble with the loss to Hartwick. This could come back and haunt them big time if they're looking for a pool C bid.

    Word...

    That loss really hurts Fisher going forward this season. This is a really tough stretch for Fisher the next 2 weeks, and to start it with a flat performance losing to Hartwick is really not good. Especially when they were able to build a 9 point lead half way through the 2nd half, and give to give it back.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2009, 03:43:12 PM
    Bombers, the problem is that this IS the same Ithaca team as last year. Join that with fact that Utica is essentially the same team, as well, and that's why I think we're headed for trouble. We beat them by 11 at home last year and lost by 12 at their place (and it probably wasn't even that close). I'm really not putting a lot of stock in a big win at home over Utica when we were playing a lot better than we are right now. I hope I'm wrong, though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2009, 04:40:58 PM
    Bombers up by 13 at the half, 45-32, on the shoulders of 15 first half pts from Chris Cruz on 5-7 from distance. As a team, IC shoots 7-15 from deep, while Utica is just 2-10. There's the difference.

    No Jeff Bostic for the Bombers today. I hope it isn't anything serious. Phil Barera makes me want to pull my hair out.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 31, 2009, 05:25:14 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2009, 03:43:12 PM
    Bombers, the problem is that this IS the same Ithaca team as last year. Join that with fact that Utica is essentially the same team, as well, and that's why I think we're headed for trouble. We beat them by 11 at home last year and lost by 12 at their place (and it probably wasn't even that close). I'm really not putting a lot of stock in a big win at home over Utica when we were playing a lot better than we are right now. I hope I'm wrong, though.

    How is it the same team when you have guys like Cruz and Marcus are added into a team that hasn't lost anyone significant?

    Today's game is a perfect example. No Bostic and Leahy and Rogers have an off game. And Ithaca's playing a tough road game. When a guy like Cruz can step in and give you 24 and 6, that's the difference. Last year, Burton would have needed to jack up 25 shots. But today, Burton can create shots for Cruz, and Ithaca guts out a win that they wouldn't have gotten the year before

    When IC lost in the E8 Tournament, Leahy was 0-7 from the floor, which gave them one true perimeter threat in Burton. A guy like Scanlon wasn't going to get them back in a game like that. So IC was really going to struggle to make up a defecit. But this season, guys like Marcus and Cruz allow them to keep the floor spread and not let teams key on Burton when Leahy's shot isn't falling..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on January 31, 2009, 11:12:52 PM
    RIT moved to 10-0 in the Empire 8 this weekend after sweeping their road trip.

    Close win over Utica Friday night, 58-55 and handled Elmira with ease, 87-42 today. Carson with a career high 29 pts today go to with 12 rebounds. Nice bounceback game for him after only scoring 9 pts. Friday to go with 13 boards.

    RIT plays Alfred at home this Tuesday before taking next weekend off. 4 of the last 6 conference games are at home for RIT but their 2 toughest road games are left, @SJF 2/10 and closing out the season @IC.

    Regardless of what happens I don't think anyone would have had RIT in this position when the season started, including all of the RIT fans out there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on January 31, 2009, 11:52:38 PM
    Bombers, for the most part, this is the same team as last year. They're better now more because of continuity than an infusion of new talent. Third year in the same system with most of the same players and we're seeing the result. Marcus is a nice player and good outside shooter, but I think he merely offsets the loss of Kail who was fantastic down the stretch last season. Cruz was here last season, but he wasn't playing because he hadn't earned it. You make it sound like we're this brand new team; we were 11-2 over our last 13 regular season games last year, and we're 17-1 to start this year. We're the same team, albeit a year older. In college basketball, continuity is a GOOD thing.

    Now, in terms of your assessment that Utica is "too slow," I have to disagree with that. They're as athletic as they ever were. Though Bostic was out, UC looked the more athletic team and had some nice finishes off lobs. The big difference with this Utica team, relative to years past, is quite clearly the coaching. I have never seen a Utica team so poorly coached. Ithaca was practically trying to let them back in the game in the 2nd half, but Utica wouldn't accept the gift. They'd get within 7 or so and then start hiking ill-advised 3's or off-balanced fadeaways, and all of a sudden the lead was 11 or 12 again. Then repeat. One of the best things I can say about Goodemote was that he kept that team in control. This Utica team seems undisciplined and out of control. I think they had about 7 defensive fouls when Ithaca wasn't within 50 feet of their hoop. A lot of that is coaching.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2009, 09:05:01 AM
    Utica really did shoot themselves in the foot yesterday. If they had simply made their FT's, they would have had the lead with a minute left. They actually outscored IC from the floor by 2 overall and by 12 in the second half. They are having a tough time adjusting to a new system. They work hard, but are making a lot of errors.

    Ithaca was hitting everything in the first half, well, Cruz was hitting everything. 7-15 beyond the arc. They looked good. The only thing they have to worry about is hosting the tournament, because back to back games against tough teams could be a problem. The legs just weren't there for IC in the second half last night. It was their first experience with back to back games since November. That could come back to haunt them while playing two good teams back to back. Defensively, IC had great pressure for the entire first half and to start the second, but that slowed as the game went on. IC only scored 3 FG's in the last 8 plus minutes of the game last night. The rest was from the line. The officials were pretty good for the most part. It was disappointing that when it was a 6 point game with 42 seconds left, the ref called a technical on Trahms when he didn't do or say anything except a slight reach in to save clock. That officially ended the game and made it look a lot worse than it was.

    You can tell that IC has earned some respect. That was the first time I ever saw Mullins whine and moan for some calls and then get 3 consecutive garbage calls in reply. They used to just look at him and laugh or T him up in those situations. With their record, you can see why they would start to get that treatment.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 01, 2009, 11:54:58 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 31, 2009, 11:52:38 PM
    Bombers, for the most part, this is the same team as last year. They're better now more because of continuity than an infusion of new talent. Third year in the same system with most of the same players and we're seeing the result. Marcus is a nice player and good outside shooter, but I think he merely offsets the loss of Kail who was fantastic down the stretch last season. Cruz was here last season, but he wasn't playing because he hadn't earned it. You make it sound like we're this brand new team; we were 11-2 over our last 13 regular season games last year, and we're 17-1 to start this year. We're the same team, albeit a year older. In college basketball, continuity is a GOOD thing.

    Now, in terms of your assessment that Utica is "too slow," I have to disagree with that. They're as athletic as they ever were. Though Bostic was out, UC looked the more athletic team and had some nice finishes off lobs. The big difference with this Utica team, relative to years past, is quite clearly the coaching. I have never seen a Utica team so poorly coached. Ithaca was practically trying to let them back in the game in the 2nd half, but Utica wouldn't accept the gift. They'd get within 7 or so and then start hiking ill-advised 3's or off-balanced fadeaways, and all of a sudden the lead was 11 or 12 again. Then repeat. One of the best things I can say about Goodemote was that he kept that team in control. This Utica team seems undisciplined and out of control. I think they had about 7 defensive fouls when Ithaca wasn't within 50 feet of their hoop. A lot of that is coaching.

    I never said they were a "brand new" team. Obviously, the core of this team is the same, (Bostic, Burton, Leahy, Rogers, Ruffrage) and that's the main reason for success. And yes, I'm aware that continuity is a good thing. But again, I don't think the Bombers win a game without one of those first three guys last season. Who's scraping together the 24 Cruz scored from last year's squad?

    What about the Stevens game? Marcus hits five three's and is the team's second leading scorer. Who's doing that last year? Scanlon?

    In St. Lawrence, the two of them had 28 points in the first half.

    Yes, the team is still centered on the big three, and I think the key guy is actually Leahy, because when his shot is falling, the entire team is a threat from the perimeter.

    Yes, Cruz was on the team last season, but he wasn't playing much, so it's almost like he's a new addition. But Cruz and Marcus are the difference makers that have pushed the team over the top. The added speed and athleticism they give is huge, in allowing Ithaca to push the ball consistently. Cruz also can drive to the basket and finish down low. Cruz has five 20+ point games this season. Kail was never going to give you production like that.

    Check this out:

    Shots per game by Ithaca

    06-07: 60.1
    07-08: 64
    08-09: 70.6

    That's a pretty big increase two years in a row, and even from last season. When you replace a guy like Kail with a guy like Cruz and can bring Jordan off the bench, you're able to push the offense at a faster pace, which is what plays to Ithaca's strengths, especially with a PG like Burton. Not to harp on the guy, because he was solid, but if you're giving Kail, Cruz's minutes, it's not going to be as fast paced an offense.

    If you look at the numbers, both Leahy and Burton have seen significant drops in their three point shooting the past few years. Leahy has gone from .348 to .284 and Burton has gone from .383 to .341. Because the Bombers have always relied heavily on the three point shot--with the exception of the year where Tyler Schultz was inside--that's a significant drop from two key players. The ability to offset that has been huge. One in every three shots the Bombers take is from three, and you need to have multiple guys who can hit shots from there if you're going to use it so much. Marcus and Cruz are the team's two best three-point shooters--and Cruz is actually their 2nd best shooter overall.

    Again, I'm not saying the guys and system they've had for awhile aren't responsible for a large chunk of this season. They are. But the two big additions to this year's team have them poised for a run like we've never seen at Ithaca (Not that there's a lot of competition)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 01, 2009, 01:32:16 PM
    its getting close to talking about Ithaca hosting the sweet 16 in the ncaa's.  If the tournment were today they'd be hosting.  Hosting the sweet 16 and elite 8 could be exactly what ithaca would need to get over the hump and make it to a final 4.  with Amherst being down this year, this is a perfect chance for an east team getting into a final 4. Excluding the NESCAC league, the northeast region is probably the weekest overall each year in the country.  Out of some of top teams in north east this year in my opinion , middleberry, brandies, they have already lost to teams from the east.  There is lots of opportunity this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 01, 2009, 02:47:10 PM
    Stevens up 26-22 over Fisher at the half. Gray with 12 and Passalacqua with 11 account for 23 of Stevens 26 pts, as those 2 hit 5 of 10 3's.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 01, 2009, 03:25:30 PM
    Fisher fights back from 7 pt deficit to tie Stevens at 57 with 3:06 left to play.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 01, 2009, 03:36:02 PM
    Fisher trails for nearly entire game, finally grabs lead at 58-57. Stevens ft ties it at 58. Fisher rebounds missed Stevens ft with 29 seconds left, Cornett misses jumper with :05  left and games goes to OT.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 01, 2009, 03:48:42 PM
    Nevermind all those things I said about Fisher getting that at large bid. I guess I was just an overly excited fan.

    They did not look good in either game this weekend. I know they are two tough trips to make, but it was just a couple of really bad offensive games. Also, Fisher looked very tight, and made some very bad decisions at the end of both games. Not really the way you want to go into the game against Ithaca, but luckily for Fisher, IC was able to beat Utica yesterday, so they still have the two game lead over Utica for the 3 spot in the tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 01, 2009, 03:54:24 PM
    Final Stevens 64 Fisher 61 in OT. Stevens opens OT with a jumper by Gray and Fisher comes back with a 3 by Henderson to lead 61-60, with 4:12 left to play. Fisher never scores again going 0 for 7  from the field. Stevens goes 4 x 5 from the line to seal the victory. Gray with 27 and Passalacqua with 14 for Stevens. Henderson with 17 Wopperer 12 and Witte 10 to pace the Cardinals.
    Title: Ithaca Hosting NCAA
    Post by: RITFAN on February 01, 2009, 05:22:44 PM
    I surprised to see talk of Ithaca hosting the NCAA sweet sixteen "if the season ended today" - when they would not even host the conference tournament if the season ended today.

    There is a great race for first going on in the conference between RIT and Ithaca, with each team is exerting increasing pressure on the other to keep winning.

    Any cornations are premature.  I'm looking forward to the RIT/Alfred and Ithaca/Fisher games Tuesday.  After losing two this weekend, Fisher should be certainly be focused. :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 01, 2009, 05:58:32 PM
    I know that would come up and almost built that into my post.  However, its Irrelavant.  Who do you think would host if season ended today?

    Ithaca has 1 loss to a pretty good RIT team.  the other team that would compete is Elms and they lost to a 7-11 regis mass team that lost to D'Youville.  The problem is I think ithaca will have 2 more losses by time the season plays out so that may not be enough. But as it stands in my opinion its ithaca.

    Tough losses for fisher this week, both very close, and couldnt get the job done.  Thats signs of a young team.  There window for an atlarge bid is getting smaller, they can only afford 1-2 more losses and they have to be to ithaca both times.  If they dont beat RIT, RIT is going to move in front of fisher for the at large.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 01, 2009, 10:29:02 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 30, 2009, 12:54:19 PM

    SUNDAY

    Nazareth (74) at Hartwick (82)
    Fisher (70) at Stevens (73)

    Hartwick owns Nazareth, not much needs to be said about that one. I think Stevens pulls the upset on Sunday afternoon against a young Fisher team. Stevens has been better of late and this will be the end of a long weekend for the Cardinals. I think Fisher is due for a slip and it happens in Hoboken on Sunday.

    Good call on the Stevens upset. Ozell off from the field today (3-12, 0-4 from 3) & good play from C. Henderson (6-13, 3-8, 17 pts). Rough weekend for Fisher after their debut in the Top 25.

    Sidenote: Congrats to Anthony Passlacqua for his 1,000th career point.

    Meanwhile, Hartwick does not own Nazareth as Nazareth steals a win at Binder, 69-67. Naz has a good weekend with a win at Stevens, and win at Hartwick.

    And I agree with RITFAN - what's with the talk about IC hosting the sweet 16 when they wouldn't even hot the conference tourney? Plenty of time left and a lot can happen the rest of this season.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 01, 2009, 10:42:44 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 01, 2009, 10:29:02 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on January 30, 2009, 12:54:19 PM

    SUNDAY

    Nazareth (74) at Hartwick (82)
    Fisher (70) at Stevens (73)

    Hartwick owns Nazareth, not much needs to be said about that one. I think Stevens pulls the upset on Sunday afternoon against a young Fisher team. Stevens has been better of late and this will be the end of a long weekend for the Cardinals. I think Fisher is due for a slip and it happens in Hoboken on Sunday.

    Good call on the Stevens upset. Ozell off from the field today (3-12, 0-4 from 3) & good play from C. Henderson (6-13, 3-8, 17 pts). Rough weekend for Fisher after their debut in the Top 25.

    Sidenote: Congrats to Anthony Passlacqua for his 1,000th career point.

    Meanwhile, Hartwick does not own Nazareth as Nazareth steals a win at Binder, 69-67. Naz has a good weekend with a win at Stevens, and win at Hartwick.

    And I agree with RITFAN - what's with the talk about IC hosting the sweet 16 when they wouldn't even hot the conference tourney? Plenty of time left and a lot can happen the rest of this season.




    That doesn't matter about the hosting. The year UC went to the Sweet 16, they were asked to host the first two rounds of NCAA's but couldn't because the Heart Run and Walk was already on campus that weekend. Fisher had hosted the conference tournament.
    Title: Ithaca and NCAA
    Post by: RITFAN on February 01, 2009, 10:43:35 PM
    I have no clue who would host the tourney if the season ended today.  That is too speculative for me.  Good luck against Ithaca Tuesday.
    Title: Re: Ithaca and NCAA
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 01, 2009, 11:15:28 PM
    Quote from: RITFAN on February 01, 2009, 10:43:35 PM
    I have no clue who would host the tourney if the season ended today.  That is too speculative for me.  Good luck against Ithaca Tuesday.

    Amen. The season doesn't end today, so who cares what would happen? Ithaca needs to finish out the season strong and the rest of it will take care of itself. Just like the SJF at-large talk, trying to speculate what will happen is really impossible
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 02, 2009, 09:36:24 AM
    agreed, way too early to talk about or speculate about the ncaa's.  Just wanted to point out as of today ithaca would host. Good seeing an e8 team in the 1) position through 3 quarters of the season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2009, 02:32:27 PM
    Once I saw my karma go down two points without posting in two days, I knew UCgrad must be back. Alas, I was correct. Nothing like the usual dip in karma after an IC victory over Utica. My favorite part is that he waited the requisite 24 hours and then came back and smited me again. I'll just take that as a compliment from you and a concession that your Pios can't hang with the Bombers this year. Surprised the refs weren't at fault for this one, though I did enjoy the expected, albeit implicit, "Utica lost this one more than Ithaca won it" jab in the form of your "we lost because we couldn't hit FT's" statement. No hard feelings.

    Anyways, to more important things. Big game tomorrow night between the Bombers and Cardinals in Pittsford. Probably a must-see for anyone in the Rochester area. It'll be interesting to see which Fisher team shows up: the vibrant club that won the Chase and was looking great before the weekend, or the inexperienced looking team that dropped two games on the road to teams they should beat. Fisher went from challenging for the #1 seed to a team that may, as unlikely as it may seem, fall to the #4 seed if they can't knock off Ithaca or RIT. I think we'll see a desperate Fisher team tomorrow night. Bostic will hopefully be returning tomorrow. 

    And RIT has a knack for winning the close ones this year, a change from years past when it seemed the Tigers were snakebitten. No question that Ithaca is in a battle for the regular season title. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out if both tie at 15-1 with a season split. My gut tells me if that were the case, a one-loss (overall) Ithaca team would have to win on one of the obscure tiebreakers. Of course, that's a long ways away and a lot of things can, and probably will, happen between now and then.

    E8 Player of the Week: Jeff Dehimer (Naz)
    E8 Rookie of the Week: Mark Blazek (Hartwick)

    Apparently, the conference is no longer impressed when Burton "only" averages 21 pts and 8.5 assts in a given week, giving the nod to a guy who averaged 17-5 for Naz. Cruz has an argument, too, after averaging 21.5 pts, 54% FG%, 54 3pt FG%. The E8 likes to redistribute the wealth, I suppose.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 02, 2009, 03:11:16 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2009, 02:32:27 PM
    Once I saw my karma go down two points without posting in two days, I knew UCgrad must be back. Alas, I was correct. Nothing like the usual dip in karma after an IC victory over Utica. My favorite part is that he waited the requisite 24 hours and then came back and smited me again. I'll just take that as a compliment from you and a concession that your Pios can't hang with the Bombers this year. Surprised the refs weren't at fault for this one, though I did enjoy the expected, albeit implicit, "Utica lost this one more than Ithaca won it" jab in the form of your "we lost because we couldn't hit FT's" statement. No hard feelings.

    Anyways, to more important things. Big game tomorrow night between the Bombers and Cardinals in Pittsford. Probably a must-see for anyone in the Rochester area. It'll be interesting to see which Fisher team shows up: the vibrant club that won the Chase and was looking great before the weekend, or the inexperienced looking team that dropped two games on the road to teams they should beat. Fisher went from challenging for the #1 seed to a team that may, as unlikely as it may seem, fall to the #4 seed if they can't knock off Ithaca or RIT. I think we'll see a desperate Fisher team tomorrow night. Bostic will hopefully be returning tomorrow. 

    And RIT has a knack for winning the close ones this year, a change from years past when it seemed the Tigers were snakebitten. No question that Ithaca is in a battle for the regular season title. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out if both tie at 15-1 with a season split. My gut tells me if that were the case, a one-loss (overall) Ithaca team would have to win on one of the obscure tiebreakers. Of course, that's a long ways away and a lot of things can, and probably will, happen between now and then.

    E8 Player of the Week: Jeff Dehimer (Naz)
    E8 Rookie of the Week: Mark Blazek (Hartwick)

    Apparently, the conference is no longer impressed when Burton "only" averages 21 pts and 8.5 assts in a given week, giving the nod to a guy who averaged 17-5 for Naz. Cruz has an argument, too, after averaging 21.5 pts, 54% FG%, 54 3pt FG%. The E8 likes to redistribute the wealth, I suppose.

    Does anyone know the tiebreaks for that?

    The SJF-IC game will be huge. It's their last tough road assignment for the Bombers before they finally return home for a spate of games, before the last trip to Naz. It's amazing how that angle is so under-reported for Ithaca. The game Tuesday will make 14 neutral/road games for Ithaca against only five home games. Fisher will need this game because a loss gives Naz a door to go through. Seems like they've finally started to play some defense over there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 02, 2009, 06:16:27 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 01, 2009, 05:58:32 PM
    Tough losses for fisher this week, both very close, and couldnt get the job done.  Thats signs of a young team.  There window for an atlarge bid is getting smaller, they can only afford 1-2 more losses and they have to be to ithaca both times.  If they dont beat RIT, RIT is going to move in front of fisher for the at large.



    You are ridiculous. Their window for at at-large bid is closed. They need an automatic bid to get into the tournament.

    They are currently 14-4, but they are 6-3 in the league. That's good for third place -- if the season ended today.

    Their league losses are to Hartwick (2-8 E8, 8-10 overall), Stevens (4-6 E8, 11-8 overall) and RIT (10-0 E8, 14-4 overall). They also have to lost to DeSales, which is an impressive 16-3 and 9-2 in the MAC Freedom league (although I'm not sure how impressive that league is).

    I think you'll be in for a rude awakening when the regional rankings come out Feb. 4, the official rankings and don't see Fisher at the top. And they won't be in the Top 25 anymore after this past weekend.

    And, I don't think they will be able to beat Ithaca one time, especially since the Cardinals can't score much.

    I think your pipe dream of an at-large bid should be laid to rest, because the only way Fisher makes the NCAA tourney is by winning the conference tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2009, 06:36:31 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 02, 2009, 03:11:16 PM

    Does anyone know the tiebreaks for that?

    The SJF-IC game will be huge. It's their last tough road assignment for the Bombers before they finally return home for a spate of games, before the last trip to Naz. It's amazing how that angle is so under-reported for Ithaca. The game Tuesday will make 14 neutral/road games for Ithaca against only five home games. Fisher will need this game because a loss gives Naz a door to go through. Seems like they've finally started to play some defense over there.

    I pasted the relevant link below. Effectively, if both go 15-1 in the league with a season split, Ithaca is going to win the conference based on Rule 9.1.2(d): SOS Index Within Region. I don't think those numbers are available just yet, but I think it's unlikely that anyone has a better in-region SoS than Ithaca.

    http://empire8.com/PDF/TB-Basketball.pdf

    Again, this may all be moot in the near future, but this is a message board and what else is there to talk about right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 02, 2009, 06:40:51 PM
    haha pipe dream good one. I'm just posting by the facts of whats happened so far, dont think its a pipedream.  I dont think im rediculous, which in region teams beside rit and ithaca would get and at large over them right now? UofR? i dont think so, fisher has a win over them.  a sunyac? a team with 6 losses vs 4.  hamilton 5 to 4 losses, mayyyyyyyybe them.  who else? NYU? just dropped last 2 and are going to lose much more in their tough conf.

    Anyways, as noted in my post, I think they will drop more by season end so will probably drop out of the race, but as of now they are still in in my opinion. In a typical year i could understand your post better however, there are not many really strong teams that stand out this year, and just about all teams besides ithaca have some bad losses on the road. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 02, 2009, 07:16:47 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 02, 2009, 06:40:51 PM
    haha pipe dream good one. I'm just posting by the facts of whats happened so far, dont think its a pipedream.  I dont think im rediculous, which in region teams beside rit and ithaca would get and at large over them right now? UofR? i dont think so, fisher has a win over them.  a sunyac? a team with 6 losses vs 4.  hamilton 5 to 4 losses, mayyyyyyyybe them.  who else? NYU? just dropped last 2 and are going to lose much more in their tough conf.

    Anyways, as noted in my post, I think they will drop more by season end so will probably drop out of the race, but as of now they are still in in my opinion. In a typical year i could understand your post better however, there are not many really strong teams that stand out this year, and just about all teams besides ithaca have some bad losses on the road. 



    Take a second and wander over to the Mutli-Region board.  Under the Pool C topic there is a chart that attempts to approximates the regional rankings, prior to their publication I believe Wednesday.

    Currently SJF would be ranked 6th in the East region and have the 31st Pool C bid.  As there are only 18 Pool C's this year, that leaves SJF out - as of today.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 02, 2009, 07:26:42 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 02, 2009, 07:16:47 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 02, 2009, 06:40:51 PM
    haha pipe dream good one. I'm just posting by the facts of whats happened so far, dont think its a pipedream.  I dont think im rediculous, which in region teams beside rit and ithaca would get and at large over them right now? UofR? i dont think so, fisher has a win over them.  a sunyac? a team with 6 losses vs 4.  hamilton 5 to 4 losses, mayyyyyyyybe them.  who else? NYU? just dropped last 2 and are going to lose much more in their tough conf.

    Anyways, as noted in my post, I think they will drop more by season end so will probably drop out of the race, but as of now they are still in in my opinion. In a typical year i could understand your post better however, there are not many really strong teams that stand out this year, and just about all teams besides ithaca have some bad losses on the road. 



    Take a second and wander over to the Mutli-Region board.  Under the Pool C topic there is a chart that attempts to approximates the regional rankings, prior to their publication I believe Wednesday.

    Currently SJF would be ranked 6th in the East region and have the 31st Pool C bid.  As there are only 18 Pool C's this year, that leaves SJF out - as of today.

    Well, I was working on an elaborate post, but it seems Ethelred beat me to the punch and much more succinctly. And the first regional rankings will be released on Wednesday.

    Here are the rankings as posted on the Multi Region board:

    EA  21   01   01    0.6332 0.5198 0.5556 Ithaca                    006  A w C       15-1 17-1
    EA  24   02   02    0.6162 0.5615 0.5086 Hamilton                  017  C 3         10-2 12-5
    EA  24   03   07    0.6060 0.5851 0.5205 St. Lawrence              042  A w C       11-4 13-4
    EA  90   04   05    0.5973 0.5658 0.5355 Rochester                 046  C 19        13-5 13-5
    EA  21   05   06    0.5928 0.5557 0.5456 Rochester Tech            052  C 24        10-4 13-4
    EA  21   06   03    0.5749 0.5123 0.5418 St. John Fisher           060  C 31        11-4 14-4
    EA  90   07   04    0.5773 0.5441 0.5336 New York University       067  C 36        11-5 13-5
    EA  23   08   08    0.5678 0.5449 0.5345 Oneonta State             080  A           11-6 13-7

    Here's an explanation about them (from pabegg the creator) for those who don't know:

    "For those of you who are new or need a refresh, these are my estimates of what the regional rankings would be if they were run this week. These reflect only the winning percentage and strength of schedule components of the rankings, not the head-to-head, common opponents, and record versus ranked components of the rankings; history shows that this ranking process is a pretty good approximation and a good starting point for discussion.
    I've ranked three more schools per region than will appear in the official rankings, to try to give an idea of who's close.)"

    So, it looks like Fisher may not only behind the top two teams in the E8, but also UofR, who they beat, but and two teams from the Liberty League. I will give the Cardinals props for edging NYU and Oneonta State.

    Didn't Oneonta State lose to Hartwick? Yes, but then again, so did Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 02, 2009, 10:55:51 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2009, 02:32:27 PM
    Once I saw my karma go down two points without posting in two days, I knew UCgrad must be back. Alas, I was correct. Nothing like the usual dip in karma after an IC victory over Utica. My favorite part is that he waited the requisite 24 hours and then came back and smited me again. I'll just take that as a compliment from you and a concession that your Pios can't hang with the Bombers this year. Surprised the refs weren't at fault for this one, though I did enjoy the expected, albeit implicit, "Utica lost this one more than Ithaca won it" jab in the form of your "we lost because we couldn't hit FT's" statement. No hard feelings.



    Don't flatter yourself junior, twasn't me. I was actually considering giving you plus karma for some good posts.  However, this time it was me.

    And how is stating that if they had made their FT's, they would have had the lead with a minute left not true? At that point they had missed 8, of which 3 were front end of 1 and 1s and were down 7. That would be something that is called a "fact".



    And while Ithaca did look real good in the first half, let's not pretend like they didn't only hit 4 FG's in the last 10:43 of the game. They will have a tough time in the second round of the conference tournament and 2nd round of NCAA's if they don't have better legs than that. Considering that this was their first time having back to back games since November, it is something that should be a concern to them. Imagine how their legs would have been if they had played a real team the night before?

    They brought a lot of energy, and played a great game for 30 minutes. Then they did a great job of going 14-14 from the line to end the game. Got a tough conference win. That doesn't mean that UC didn't hurt themselves.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 02, 2009, 11:57:27 PM
    UCgrad, to say they had 4 FG's in the last 10 1/2 minutes is misleading, to say the least:

    1) They made five FG's. Burton at 10:22, Leahy at 8:27, Cruz at 7:17, Brown at 5:30, Brown at 1:52. So, really nothing that extraordinary from the 10:30 mark to the 5:30 mark. That other four minute span, IC was setting up camp at the FT line.

    2) IC went 17-18 from the FT line during that span. Tough to score FG's when you're making a constant procession to the FT line, don't you think? By the way, UC has to know better than to let Burton and Rogers take 14 of those FT's. You can't foul 92% and 88% foul shooters, respectively.

    3) Ithaca scored 27 pts in the last 10:22. So it's not exactly like Utica put the clamps on them. That's over a 100 point pace for a 40 minute game.

    Look, I thought Utica was going to win the game. That's documented. I thought Ithaca was ripe for the upset. The game had all the makings: Fisher looming on Tuesday, IC's poor track record in Utica, etc. Maybe it was a hangover from the tough RIT loss, but Utica lost that game in the first 10 mins of the game and the last 2 1/2 mins of the first half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 03, 2009, 02:38:03 AM
    Ithaca finally cracks the top 10 checking in at the #9 spot in this week's D3 Hoops Top 25. Fisher takes a tumble falling all the way to a tie for #33. Back on the 19th of Jan. I stated that today's matchup could feature a Top 10 Ithaca taking on a # 20"s something Fisher if they both kept their winning streaks alive. I said at the time that Ithaca would keep winning and Fisher could have problems with Naz or Stevens. If the Cardinals had only dropped 1 game this past weekend they probably would have held onto the 24th or 25th spot, but that Hartwick loss was a killer. Don't think they'll see the top 25 again this year. Assuming Bostic plays, the Bombers win at Fisher tonight 78-70.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:08:24 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2009, 11:57:27 PM
    UCgrad, to say they had 4 FG's in the last 10 1/2 minutes is misleading, to say the least:

    1) They made five FG's. Burton at 10:22, Leahy at 8:27, Cruz at 7:17, Brown at 5:30, Brown at 1:52. So, really nothing that extraordinary from the 10:30 mark to the 5:30 mark. That other four minute span, IC was setting up camp at the FT line.

    2) IC went 17-18 from the FT line during that span. Tough to score FG's when you're making a constant procession to the FT line, don't you think? By the way, UC has to know better than to let Burton and Rogers take 14 of those FT's. You can't foul 92% and 88% foul shooters, respectively.

    3) Ithaca scored 27 pts in the last 10:22. So it's not exactly like Utica put the clamps on them. That's over a 100 point pace for a 40 minute game.

    Look, I thought Utica was going to win the game. That's documented. I thought Ithaca was ripe for the upset. The game had all the makings: Fisher looming on Tuesday, IC's poor track record in Utica, etc. Maybe it was a hangover from the tough RIT loss, but Utica lost that game in the first 10 mins of the game and the last 2 1/2 mins of the first half.

    1. Yes, 5 in nearly 11 minutes is a huge discrepancy from 4. Very misleading.

    2.  UC started fouling with less than 2 minutes left. They had about 10 of those in the last minute, including the ridiculous Technical that wasn't and the subsequent immediate fouls to stop the clock afterwards. They took plenty of shots in that time period from 11 minutes on, they just didn't go in. Considering that UC outscored them from the floor by 12 that half, it isn't a stretch to say that they did not play as well the second half. The lead was down to 3 points at one point, and the game was within reach with a little over a minute left. You can deny that they slowed down all you want, but the fact remains, they did.

    3. LOL, tough to put the clamps on 14 of those 27 when they were from clock saving fouls and a BS tech.


    And your Karma was lower long before my 24 hours was up this morning. Could it be that maybe your attempt to call me out was premature? It appears someone else isn't a fan. I'm shocked.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:50:31 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2009, 11:57:27 PM

    Maybe it was a hangover from the tough RIT loss, but Utica lost that game in the first 10 mins of the game and the last 2 1/2 mins of the first half.

    By your "logic", this is your subtle shot at Ithaca, suggesting that UC lost it more than they won it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 09:49:47 AM
    1) I didn't say four relative to five was misleading (though still incorrect, nonetheless). I said your overall point, namely that Ithaca wasn't doing much offensively down the stretch as evidenced by "only" four (five, actually) FG's, was misleading. I think I've adequately established this. As I said, it's tough to score FG's when the whistle has blown and you're walking to the FT line.

    2) Trahms kid got the tech because he started jawing at Burton early in the second half. Right before an inbounds play with about 14 mins left you can see the officials say something to both of them. Then, the kid gets a tech late in the game from the same ref who warned him earlier. The logical inference is that the kid didn't heed the ref's earlier advice to shut his mouth. This is surprising to you?

    3) "Considering UC outscored them by 12 from the floor that half..." Great stat. Except not at all. Unfortunately for you and your Pios, FT's count for points in college basketball, too. Ithaca shoots a lot of them because they beat their opponents' defense and that is the predictable outcome. And the teams tied at 41 in the 2nd half, that's what matters. You don't think if you offered Jim Mullins and the Bombers a 41-41 tie in the 2nd half when they went to the locker room up 13, on the road and without their 2nd best player, that they wouldn't have taken that in a heartbeat? Please. So you keep thinking about your "outscored them by 12 from the floor in the 2nd half" stat when you put your head on the pillow. Little victories, I guess.

    4) Utica never got closer than 5, and that was with 3:09 left and the ball in Ithaca's hands. If you'd give me IC up 5 with possession and 3 minutes left, I'll take that EVERY time. With arguably the best player in the league making all the decisions and two of the best FT shooters in the conference, I like my chances. Besides, it's one thing to cut a 13-15 point lead to 5 or 6, it's a completely different thing to tie it or get over the hump and take the lead, especially when the team you're rallying against is #11 in the country. I thought this was a fairly comfortable road win given the circumstances.

    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:50:31 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2009, 11:57:27 PM

    Maybe it was a hangover from the tough RIT loss, but Utica lost that game in the first 10 mins of the game and the last 2 1/2 mins of the first half.

    By your "logic", this is your subtle shot at Ithaca, suggesting that UC lost it more than they won it.

    Uhhh, what? Not a shot at Ithaca at all. Utica played poorly during those two stages. A team like Utica has next to zero margin of error against the Bombers. Ithaca played well during the portion, too, and Utica couldn't weather the storm. Cruz hit a lot of big shots and Utica didn't have an answer for him on Saturday. I don't see how that was a shot at Ithaca, at all. The Bombers didn't play their best game, but Ithaca won a road game by double-digits without Bostic. I'm not complaining, trust me.

    Secondly, I was referring more to your incessant propensity to take knocks at the teams who beat Utica (see Naz game last year, among others). You usually find someone to blame (refs), followed by some variation of "the better team didn't win today." I don't need to prove that to others, those who've been around long enough to know your antics know that I'm right.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 03, 2009, 10:10:25 AM
    Listen guys, IC beat UTICA, I don't care what the reason...UC lost it or IC won it........ I will also state, that the only way a team from the e-8 get's an at large is if IC loses the e-8 tourney. IC will get an at large...Fisher will not get an at large, and MAYYYYBEE RIT gets one if they lose the championship game to IC. Now I know a lot can happen to change that between now and then like Fisher somehow running off a string of wins, BUT I don't know if it was looking ahead to IC or not, but Hartwick and Stevens both beat them.  NAZ and Stevens both have a flicker of hope, BUT Stevens has to beat UC at homw and pick off IC or RIT at their place.... while not tripping to Hartwick, Alfred and Elmira..... which I think Hartwick may do.....but what do I know..... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 03, 2009, 11:00:26 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 09:49:47 AM
    1) I didn't say four relative to five was misleading (though still incorrect, nonetheless). I said your overall point, namely that Ithaca wasn't doing much offensively down the stretch as evidenced by "only" four (five, actually) FG's, was misleading. I think I've adequately established this. As I said, it's tough to score FG's when the whistle has blown and you're walking to the FT line.

    2) Trahms kid got the tech because he started jawing at Burton early in the second half. Right before an inbounds play with about 14 mins left you can see the officials say something to both of them. Then, the kid gets a tech late in the game from the same ref who warned him earlier. The logical inference is that the kid didn't heed the ref's earlier advice to shut his mouth. This is surprising to you?

    3) "Considering UC outscored them by 12 from the floor that half..." Great stat. Except not at all. Unfortunately for you and your Pios, FT's count for points in college basketball, too. Ithaca shoots a lot of them because they beat their opponents' defense and that is the predictable outcome. And the teams tied at 41 in the 2nd half, that's what matters. You don't think if you offered Jim Mullins and the Bombers a 41-41 tie in the 2nd half when they went to the locker room up 13, on the road and without their 2nd best player, that they wouldn't have taken that in a heartbeat? Please. So you keep thinking about your "outscored them by 12 from the floor in the 2nd half" stat when you put your head on the pillow. Little victories, I guess.

    4) Utica never got closer than 5, and that was with 3:09 left and the ball in Ithaca's hands. If you'd give me IC up 5 with possession and 3 minutes left, I'll take that EVERY time. With arguably the best player in the league making all the decisions and two of the best FT shooters in the conference, I like my chances. Besides, it's one thing to cut a 13-15 point lead to 5 or 6, it's a completely different thing to tie it or get over the hump and take the lead, especially when the team you're rallying against is #11 in the country. I thought this was a fairly comfortable road win given the circumstances.

    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:50:31 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 02, 2009, 11:57:27 PM

    Maybe it was a hangover from the tough RIT loss, but Utica lost that game in the first 10 mins of the game and the last 2 1/2 mins of the first half.

    By your "logic", this is your subtle shot at Ithaca, suggesting that UC lost it more than they won it.

    Uhhh, what? Not a shot at Ithaca at all. Utica played poorly during those two stages. A team like Utica has next to zero margin of error against the Bombers. Ithaca played well during the portion, too, and Utica couldn't weather the storm. Cruz hit a lot of big shots and Utica didn't have an answer for him on Saturday. I don't see how that was a shot at Ithaca, at all. The Bombers didn't play their best game, but Ithaca won a road game by double-digits without Bostic. I'm not complaining, trust me.

    Secondly, I was referring more to your incessant propensity to take knocks at the teams who beat Utica (see Naz game last year, among others). You usually find someone to blame (refs), followed by some variation of "the better team didn't win today." I don't need to prove that to others, those who've been around long enough to know your antics know that I'm right.



    1. Ithaca did not shoot well over the last 12-13 minutes of the game. Thankfully, they did shoot well over the first 27-28 minutes of the game so who cares? A win is a win

    2. If Utica shuts down a team from the floor for 13 minutes, is playing at home and the other team is missing one of their top players and Utica still loses by double digits, that pretty much answers the better team question. Good teams win games even when they're shorthanded, on the road and struggling. Mediocre teams fail to beat shorthanded, struggling teams in their own gym. Guess which team Utica is? Utica's going to have a tough time even making the conference tournament if they can't take advantage of opportunities like that.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 03, 2009, 11:50:42 AM
    If UC loses to Stevens then NAZ and Stevens have a life....... If UC beats Stevens then I believe Stevens is done, they may be done anyway as they play RIT and IC on the road, unless they can beat one, not likely... that should do it because they would have lost to bot NAZ and UC twice... they have to have a better record then both... tie breaker kills them. IF they tie UC and have split with them, it comes down to record against teams in decending order, which could play well for Stevens since they have to beat either IC or RIT to probably get to that point, and UC may not........Too early still, each team just has to take care of business. I'm getting more dizzy than I already am....but what do I know ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 03, 2009, 01:09:59 PM
    Quick update for Bomber and Cardinal fans:

    Jeff Bostic is a game-time decision for Ithaca tonight. He sprained an ankle in practice on Thursday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 03, 2009, 01:45:38 PM
    That's too bad, Hate to seeany kids miss games...I truly beliebve it won't hurt IC that much against Fisher.. Brown can doa good job on boards agains Cards, and IF Leahy shows up they'll be OK....... Take it easy on me Fisher guys but I say,  IC by 18. But what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 02:57:22 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 09:49:47 AM

    Uhhh, what? Not a shot at Ithaca at all.



    WHOOOOOOOSH. Neither was mine.



    FWIW, UC was only down by 3, and a few seconds later there was a score on the other end. Considering that I kept the running score complete with times, I know what I am talking about.

    Trahms didn't say a word on the Tech. The ref explained that he didn't like the "push" on the foul. That was his explanation to the coach and the table. His crew mates didn't agree with him.

    And last year, Naz did get the win early in the season from the same Ref who hoses UC out of at least 1 game a year, usually the only one he does. UC outscored them by over 20 from the field. It was something like a 28-5 differential in ft's in a 2 point game. UC proved they were the better team when they smoked them the second time around. Regardless, this is nothing but posturing on your part.

    This has nothing to do with the fact that IC looked like two different teams in those halves. Rather than get angry over someone pointing out a concern that I bet even IC's own coaches have, take off your blue and gold glasses.


    And bombers, anyone that was there knows that this game was a lot closer than it looked. I understand that gobombers gets his panties in a bunch when someone point out facts he doesn't like. The simple fact is, if UC had made their FT's and taken care of business, it was a different game at the end. That isn't taking anything away from IC, just stating a fact.





    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 03, 2009, 03:36:07 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 02:57:22 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 09:49:47 AM

    Uhhh, what? Not a shot at Ithaca at all.



    WHOOOOOOOSH. Neither was mine.



    FWIW, UC was only down by 3, and a few seconds later there was a score on the other end. Considering that I kept the running score complete with times, I know what I am talking about.

    Trahms didn't say a word on the Tech. The ref explained that he didn't like the "push" on the foul. That was his explanation to the coach and the table. His crew mates didn't agree with him.

    And last year, Naz did get the win early in the season from the same Ref who hoses UC out of at least 1 game a year, usually the only one he does. UC outscored them by over 20 from the field. It was something like a 28-5 differential in ft's in a 2 point game. UC proved they were the better team when they smoked them the second time around. Regardless, this is nothing but posturing on your part.

    This has nothing to do with the fact that IC looked like two different teams in those halves. Rather than get angry over someone pointing out a concern that I bet even IC's own coaches have, take off your blue and gold glasses.


    And bombers, anyone that was there knows that this game was a lot closer than it looked. I understand that gobombers gets his panties in a bunch when someone point out facts he doesn't like. The simple fact is, if UC had made their FT's and taken care of business, it was a different game at the end. That isn't taking anything away from IC, just stating a fact.







    Sure it would have been a different game if they could hit free throws. Of course, if Ithaca wasn't missing a guy averaging 11.9/11.4, it would have been a different game as well. But that doesn't warrant a discussion from you does it? The Bombers missing their third-leading scorer and leading rebounder? 

    You want a fact? Here's a fact. Utica shoots 65% from the free throw line on the season. They took 11 free throws in the game. If they had hit on 65% of them, they would have made 7. Instead, they made 5. That's two points. Two. You can give them to Herring. He was 0-3 and usually is good on 64%. There you go. Straight up facts. Utica was 5-11 from the line, and their season percentage usually is around 7-11. Take the two points if they mean that much to you. You'd still be playing the "What if" game trying to scrape together a win from that. That's a fact.

    Ithaca won that game, in part, because of their free-throw shooting ability.  But free throw shooting is a skill just like any other. A skill that apparently, Utica players don't have, at least in comparison to the Bombers. To say, "Well if Utica could hit their free throws" is easy to say, but Utica's not very good at shooting them. Ithaca is. Sean Burton and Brendan Rogers are two of the best free throw shooters in the conference. Maybe if they'd have gone to Utica, the Pioneers would have won that game. We can play the what if game all day if you want, but since you like facts, here's a few:

    Ithaca beat Utica twice.
    Ithaca has a significantly better record than Utica
    Ithaca is in the Top 10
    Utica is not.
    Utica will have to fight just to sneak in the E8 tournament, in hopes of getting a backdoor invite to the NCAA's.
    Ithaca would have to lose out to miss out, and even then, they'd probably make it.
    Ithaca is a better basketball team than Utica. Free throws and all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 04:17:25 PM
    Right UCgrad, because I never take Ithaca (or Mullins) to task. I haven't posted at least four times this year that they're misusing Bostic on the offensive end. I didn't call Mullins out for switching to a zone against Stevens when Passalacqua, the best 3pt shooter in the conference, checked back in. And I haven't even started about my opinions on Mike Welch yet (but you can look them up in posting history). Nope, I'm not realistic at all.  I've been told on several occasions by other IC grads that I'm "too tough" on Mullins (and Welch) and the program(s). But, according to you, I'm some sort of Bomber delude. A Bomber delude who picked his #11-ranked alma mater to lose to your .500 Pioneers. Wow, I'm really drinking that kool-aid, arent I? Selective reading on your part. Keep casting aspersions. That was an ignorant post on your part.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 03, 2009, 05:04:57 PM
    bombers/gobombers,

    Do you think Mullins is a good enough coach to take Ithaca far in the NCAA Tourny when they face a veterant talented team?  They did beat UofR this year which is a good one but UofR is very young.  They also have a good win over a pretty good st. lawrence team but that was a barn burner.  Just wondering your thoughts as ithaca is one of the more veteran teams this year and there isnt much talent around to give the a good gauge on how good they really are.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 05:16:26 PM
    To more important things than a 15-point win that happened three days ago. A healthy slate of games on the schedule tonight. Here's my best guess:

    Oswego (63) at Utica (70)

    My heart is saying Oswego, but my head is saying Utica. The SUNYAC is having a down year, so even though the Lakers are meandering (rather than sprinting) up the conference standings, I'll take the E8 team at home.

    Nazareth (78) at Elmira (62)

    The Golden Flyers had a good weekend and I think it continues in the Southern Tier. I don't see this one being close for long.

    Alfred (56) at RIT (67)

    RIT should get some breathing room in this one. RIT has hit their groove and Alfred has fallen off a little since their first matchup, a 56-52 win for the Tigers.

    Ithaca (71) at Fisher (66)

    This is assuming Bostic plays this evening. It's a matchup of the conference's best scoring offense (Ithaca--90ppg) against the conference's top scoring defense (Fisher--55ppg). Ithaca probably won't sniff 90 pts, but the question will be if Fisher can score enough to win. If Bostic plays, I like the Bombers. If not, I lean towards Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 03, 2009, 05:19:36 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 03, 2009, 05:04:57 PM
    bombers/gobombers,

    Do you think Mullins is a good enough coach to take Ithaca far in the NCAA Tourny when they face a veterant talented team?  They did beat UofR this year which is a good one but UofR is very young.  They also have a good win over a pretty good st. lawrence team but that was a barn burner.  Just wondering your thoughts as ithaca is one of the more veteran teams this year and there isnt much talent around to give the a good gauge on how good they really are.

    I'm not the one you addressed this to, but thought I'd throw my two cents in anyway.

    Mullins might not be a good enough coach to lead them far into the tourney, but Burton -- Sean that is -- might be.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 05:23:48 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 03, 2009, 05:04:57 PM
    bombers/gobombers,

    Do you think Mullins is a good enough coach to take Ithaca far in the NCAA Tourny when they face a veterant talented team?  They did beat UofR this year which is a good one but UofR is very young.  They also have a good win over a pretty good st. lawrence team but that was a barn burner.  Just wondering your thoughts as ithaca is one of the more veteran teams this year and there isnt much talent around to give the a good gauge on how good they really are.

    Good question. We'll find out, won't we? I hate to be non-committal, but I'm really not sure. I think the team can beat anyone if they get four home games to start the NCAA Tournament. They can also lose to most teams that'll be in the NCAA's. It'll be interesting to see how they play when they get in a tight game or are behind by a few in the 2nd round or Sweet 16. Will they still be their freewheeling selves or will they tense up? The precedent of past E8 Tourneys is not a good one and they seemingly shrink in the moment. These guys have won a lot of games, but they've never won an E8 Tourney game, nor have they won an NCAA game. I think the most important NCAA game for them will be their first one. If they can get that first win out of their system, we may see them go far. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they lost their first game.

    Mullins just kinda needs to stay out of the way while putting them in a position to succeed. He has the players, and that's 90% of the battle, in my opinion. He just needs to ride his horses and they'll be fine.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 03, 2009, 05:30:37 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 05:23:48 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 03, 2009, 05:04:57 PM
    bombers/gobombers,

    Do you think Mullins is a good enough coach to take Ithaca far in the NCAA Tourny when they face a veterant talented team?  They did beat UofR this year which is a good one but UofR is very young.  They also have a good win over a pretty good st. lawrence team but that was a barn burner.  Just wondering your thoughts as ithaca is one of the more veteran teams this year and there isnt much talent around to give the a good gauge on how good they really are.

    Good question. We'll find out, won't we? I hate to be non-committal, but I'm really not sure. I think the team can beat anyone if they get four home games to start the NCAA Tournament. They can also lose to most teams that'll be in the NCAA's. It'll be interesting to see how they play when they get in a tight game or are behind by a few in the 2nd round or Sweet 16. Will they still be their freewheeling selves or will they tense up? The precedent of past E8 Tourneys is not a good one and they seemingly shrink in the moment. These guys have won a lot of games, but they've never won an E8 Tourney game, nor have they won an NCAA game. I think the most important NCAA game for them will be their first one. If they can get that first win out of their system, we may see them go far. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they lost their first game.

    Mullins just kinda needs to stay out of the way while putting them in a position to succeed. He has the players, and that's 90% of the battle, in my opinion. He just needs to ride his horses and they'll be fine.

    I sort of agree. Mullins is not the kind of guy to lead an undermanned team to greatness, but, he's done a good job keeping this team focused and on track. They've played a mostly road schedule and have to be given credit for that. Rebounding from a wierd RIT loss and winning at Utica sans Bostic isn't something to sneeze at.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 05:31:35 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 03, 2009, 03:36:07 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 02:57:22 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 09:49:47 AM

    Uhhh, what? Not a shot at Ithaca at all.



    WHOOOOOOOSH. Neither was mine.



    FWIW, UC was only down by 3, and a few seconds later there was a score on the other end. Considering that I kept the running score complete with times, I know what I am talking about.

    Trahms didn't say a word on the Tech. The ref explained that he didn't like the "push" on the foul. That was his explanation to the coach and the table. His crew mates didn't agree with him.

    And last year, Naz did get the win early in the season from the same Ref who hoses UC out of at least 1 game a year, usually the only one he does. UC outscored them by over 20 from the field. It was something like a 28-5 differential in ft's in a 2 point game. UC proved they were the better team when they smoked them the second time around. Regardless, this is nothing but posturing on your part.

    This has nothing to do with the fact that IC looked like two different teams in those halves. Rather than get angry over someone pointing out a concern that I bet even IC's own coaches have, take off your blue and gold glasses.


    And bombers, anyone that was there knows that this game was a lot closer than it looked. I understand that gobombers gets his panties in a bunch when someone point out facts he doesn't like. The simple fact is, if UC had made their FT's and taken care of business, it was a different game at the end. That isn't taking anything away from IC, just stating a fact.







    Sure it would have been a different game if they could hit free throws. Of course, if Ithaca wasn't missing a guy averaging 11.9/11.4, it would have been a different game as well. But that doesn't warrant a discussion from you does it? The Bombers missing their third-leading scorer and leading rebounder? 

    You want a fact? Here's a fact. Utica shoots 65% from the free throw line on the season. They took 11 free throws in the game. If they had hit on 65% of them, they would have made 7. Instead, they made 5. That's two points. Two. You can give them to Herring. He was 0-3 and usually is good on 64%. There you go. Straight up facts. Utica was 5-11 from the line, and their season percentage usually is around 7-11. Take the two points if they mean that much to you. You'd still be playing the "What if" game trying to scrape together a win from that. That's a fact.

    Ithaca won that game, in part, because of their free-throw shooting ability.  But free throw shooting is a skill just like any other. A skill that apparently, Utica players don't have, at least in comparison to the Bombers. To say, "Well if Utica could hit their free throws" is easy to say, but Utica's not very good at shooting them. Ithaca is. Sean Burton and Brendan Rogers are two of the best free throw shooters in the conference. Maybe if they'd have gone to Utica, the Pioneers would have won that game. We can play the what if game all day if you want, but since you like facts, here's a few:

    Ithaca beat Utica twice.
    Ithaca has a significantly better record than Utica
    Ithaca is in the Top 10
    Utica is not.
    Utica will have to fight just to sneak in the E8 tournament, in hopes of getting a backdoor invite to the NCAA's.
    Ithaca would have to lose out to miss out, and even then, they'd probably make it.
    Ithaca is a better basketball team than Utica. Free throws and all.




    And what does any of your irrelevant ranting have to do with the fact that IC struggled and looked like a different team in the second half when they were forced to play back to back games for the first time all season?

    Pointing that out is a far cry from suggesting whatever it is you think I am suggesting. Typical Ithaca fan.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 05:44:58 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 04:17:25 PM
    But, according to you, I'm some sort of Bomber delude. A Bomber delude who picked his #11-ranked alma mater to lose to your .500 Pioneers


    Which is what makes your getting offended, when someone pointed out that UC missed enough FT's to put them into the lead if they had simply converted, that much more funny. How dare they point out any criticism of the winning team! That must mean that they think they are the better team and should have won! They must be taking a shot at IC. How dare they! Only fans of a team can do this, and any team that won played a perfect game and looked great all 40 minutes of it!

    I've seen a Sweet 16 team. The legs on Ithaca at this point isn't one. It isn't their fault that the 9th team now throws off the weekend series games (Which I think is a shame, add another team already). It is just something that they will have to get better with during their remaining schedule.

    You know, when I was involved with the UC program more, we always supported the guys from IC and their coaches when it came conference tournament time (When they weren't playing us). Normally, if they got into the tourny I would pull for them to do well in it. However, pantywaist hypocrites who can't take even a hint of constructive criticism from someone who has actually seen first hand what it takes to do what this team wants to do, are making me think of changing my tune on that.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 03, 2009, 06:12:54 PM
    Im not trying to get involved in this one as it appears certian people have taken posts to heart.  I can see UCgrads point to an EXTENT but he still goes overboard and sounds rediculous when tries to make points.  I think GoBombers has been very neutral this year and made good points and bombers12341483093 isn't as off the deep end as UCgrad but is a little biased and takes offense to certain posts as well.  Nothings wrong with being a fan and having faith in your team just try to stay open minded in the situation at hand.  back and forth back and forth bickering over nothing is making me not want to look at this site anymore.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 07:04:06 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 03, 2009, 06:12:54 PM
    Im not trying to get involved in this one as it appears certian people have taken posts to heart.  I can see UCgrads point to an EXTENT but he still goes overboard and sounds rediculous when tries to make points.  I think GoBombers has been very neutral this year and made good points and bombers12341483093 isn't as off the deep end as UCgrad but is a little biased and takes offense to certain posts as well.  Nothings wrong with being a fan and having faith in your team just try to stay open minded in the situation at hand.  back and forth back and forth bickering over nothing is making me not want to look at this site anymore.

    It is too bad that gobombers is so insecure that he thinks anything other than worshipping at the alter of ithaca is taking shots at them. That way, bickering could be avoided. It is also sad that he assumes I think highly enough of him to play games with "karma" on a message board.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 07:05:58 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 03, 2009, 05:04:57 PM
    bombers/gobombers,

    Do you think Mullins is a good enough coach to take Ithaca far in the NCAA Tourny when they face a veterant talented team?  They did beat UofR this year which is a good one but UofR is very young.  They also have a good win over a pretty good st. lawrence team but that was a barn burner.  Just wondering your thoughts as ithaca is one of the more veteran teams this year and there isnt much talent around to give the a good gauge on how good they really are.


    He has very capable assistants.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 07:26:09 PM
    I'm at the point where I read the first two sentences of UCgrad's nonsense before skipping to the next post. Keep slipping further into irrelevance, UCgrad.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:30:58 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 07:26:09 PM
    I'm at the point where I read the first two sentences of UCgrad's nonsense before skipping to the next post. Keep slipping further into irrelevance, UCgrad.

    Yet you find it necessary to address a post to Mr. Irrelevant.

    How cute, you have a mancrush. You can't quit me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 08:34:28 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:30:58 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 07:26:09 PM
    I'm at the point where I read the first two sentences of UCgrad's nonsense before skipping to the next post. Keep slipping further into irrelevance, UCgrad.

    Yet you find it necessary to address a post to Mr. Irrelevant.

    How cute, you have a mancrush. You can't quit me.

    You got me, Mr. Message Board Therapist. Go ahead, take the last word. It's obvious you're desperate for it.

    And, by the way, Ithaca's goal is not to be where Utica was. See, we actually want to win a conference championship. Oh, we already have two regular season titles? I bet we'll need a few more to catch Utica. Errr...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 03, 2009, 08:42:30 PM
    Watching the IC game at Fisher on the web. When I got it on they were down 28-21. I saw the lead jump to ten at one point but Ithaca made a run in the last three minutes or so (can't see the time that well) and have tied it at the half. Looks like Fisher started strong and had a good lead, but IC has got it going. Bostic still suffering from a bad ankle injury, you can see him hobbling around and not running down on the fast breaks.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:42:48 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 08:34:28 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:30:58 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 07:26:09 PM
    I'm at the point where I read the first two sentences of UCgrad's nonsense before skipping to the next post. Keep slipping further into irrelevance, UCgrad.

    Yet you find it necessary to address a post to Mr. Irrelevant.

    How cute, you have a mancrush. You can't quit me.

    You got me, Mr. Message Board Therapist. Go ahead, take the last word. It's obvious you're desperate for it.

    And, by the way, Ithaca's goal is not to be where Utica was. See, we actually want to win a conference championship. Oh, we already have two regular season titles? I bet we'll need a few more to catch Utica. Errr...


    Oh the irony. I thought you skipped over my posts?

    And call me when you get to the sweet 16. Brown wouldn't have even sniffed the Roster on Fisher or Utica's teams of three years ago and he is a key reserve on this team. Great starting lineup, good chemistry, great season so far, but would have finished 3rd in the conference at best just a few years back. They are very similar to the Gordon team that UC beat in the first round of NCAA's that year. They have a good thing going, but need work if they want to go past the first weekend in the tournament. Sorry if that is too much of a blow to your ego.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:44:16 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 03, 2009, 08:42:30 PM
    Watching the IC game at Fisher on the web. When I got it on they were down 28-21. I saw the lead jump to ten at one point but Ithaca made a run in the last three minutes or so (can't see the time that well) and have tied it at the half. Looks like Fisher started strong and had a good lead, but IC has got it going. Bostic still suffering from a bad ankle injury, you can see him hobbling around and not running down on the fast breaks.

    What did he do to his ankle? That is a terrible place to get injured. I'd rather hurt my knee.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 08:50:42 PM
    Ithaca caps a furious 1st half rally to tie Fisher at 38 going into the locker room. Fisher led 35-23 at one point. Bostic shouldn't be playing, his ankle is obviously bothering him evidenced by the fact he can hardly elevate. They're hiding him at the top of the 2-3 and the 1-3-1.

    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:42:48 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 08:34:28 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:30:58 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 07:26:09 PM
    I'm at the point where I read the first two sentences of UCgrad's nonsense before skipping to the next post. Keep slipping further into irrelevance, UCgrad.

    Yet you find it necessary to address a post to Mr. Irrelevant.

    How cute, you have a mancrush. You can't quit me.

    You got me, Mr. Message Board Therapist. Go ahead, take the last word. It's obvious you're desperate for it.

    And, by the way, Ithaca's goal is not to be where Utica was. See, we actually want to win a conference championship. Oh, we already have two regular season titles? I bet we'll need a few more to catch Utica. Errr...


    Oh the irony. I thought you skipped over my posts?

    And call me when you get to the sweet 16. Brown wouldn't have even sniffed the Roster on Fisher or Utica's teams of three years ago and he is a key reserve on this team. Great starting lineup, good chemistry, great season so far, but would have finished 3rd in the conference at best just a few years back. They are very similar to the Gordon team that UC beat in the first round of NCAA's that year. They have a good thing going, but need work if they want to go past the first weekend in the tournament. Sorry if that is too much of a blow to your ego.

    Typical loser response from the grad of a school with a loser athletic department. A Sweet 16?! GASP! You don't get trophies for making the Sweet 16, but Ithaca does have a couple E8 Hoops trophies with the word "Champions" on it. I'm sure you don't know what an E8 Hoops trophy looks like without the words "Runner-Up" on them. What do they give you for that? A ribbon? A t-shirt?

    And, by the way, I find it hilarious that you represent the school in any official capacity, be it running the book or otherwise. Says a lot about the class of Utica College. The way you talk about officials, especially when you allegedly deal with them on a regular basis, and comment on other schools' players and coaches is beyond unprofessional. It's laughable and borderline pathetic.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 03, 2009, 08:59:23 PM
    Bostic sprained his ankle in practice Thursday I believe.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 03, 2009, 09:07:28 PM
    A nice drive and reverse lay-up by Rogers brings Ithaca within 1 point with about 12 left to play. Burton got hot to start the second half but cooled off. A lot of three pointers being shot by both teams.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:07:51 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 08:50:42 PM
    Ithaca caps a furious 1st half rally to tie Fisher at 38 going into the locker room. Fisher led 35-23 at one point. Bostic shouldn't be playing, his ankle is obviously bothering him evidenced by the fact he can hardly elevate. They're hiding him at the top of the 2-3 and the 1-3-1.

    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:42:48 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 08:34:28 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 08:30:58 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 07:26:09 PM
    I'm at the point where I read the first two sentences of UCgrad's nonsense before skipping to the next post. Keep slipping further into irrelevance, UCgrad.

    Yet you find it necessary to address a post to Mr. Irrelevant.

    How cute, you have a mancrush. You can't quit me.

    You got me, Mr. Message Board Therapist. Go ahead, take the last word. It's obvious you're desperate for it.

    And, by the way, Ithaca's goal is not to be where Utica was. See, we actually want to win a conference championship. Oh, we already have two regular season titles? I bet we'll need a few more to catch Utica. Errr...


    Oh the irony. I thought you skipped over my posts?

    And call me when you get to the sweet 16. Brown wouldn't have even sniffed the Roster on Fisher or Utica's teams of three years ago and he is a key reserve on this team. Great starting lineup, good chemistry, great season so far, but would have finished 3rd in the conference at best just a few years back. They are very similar to the Gordon team that UC beat in the first round of NCAA's that year. They have a good thing going, but need work if they want to go past the first weekend in the tournament. Sorry if that is too much of a blow to your ego.

    Typical loser response from the grad of a school with a loser athletic department. A Sweet 16?! GASP! You don't get trophies for making the Sweet 16, but Ithaca does have a couple E8 Hoops trophies with the word "Champions" on it. I'm sure you don't know what an E8 Hoops trophy looks like without the words "Runner-Up" on them. What do they give you for that? A ribbon? A t-shirt?

    And, by the way, I find it hilarious that you represent the school in any official capacity, be it running the book or otherwise. Says a lot about the class of Utica College. The way you talk about officials, especially when you allegedly deal with them on a regular basis, and comment on other schools' players and coaches is beyond unprofessional. It's laughable and borderline pathetic.


    I told you that you couldn't quit me.

    I'd take a run to the sweet 16 over a conference regular season championship any day of the week. You would too if you knew what it felt like to do the former rather than the latter. The banner that says Sweet 16 NCAA tournament 23-7 in the rafters is much nicer than a trophy sitting in a case. The reason being, you have to do more to get it. Put that team with Bryant and Cichon in this years league, they probably don't lose a single game. Fisher just happened to be an even better team that year. And outside your bubble, most of ny state sees all of Ithaca as nothing but bleeding heart liberal arrogant mouthbreathers (even had a crack about it on SNL just last week). You do little to combat the stereotype.

    There has only been one official that I have talked about being bad at his job. Others I have often complimented on being some of the best around. One that did the IC UC game the other day is probably the best in all of D3. As for coaches, I wasn't aware that just one page ago when I talked about the IC assistants being very capable I was saying something unprofessional and offensive. As for the players, I take it you are talking about the Brown not being a factor on teams from the past comment. Did that say he was a bad player? No. It does say that he isn't talented enough to beat out the bigs from teams that have actually accomplished something beyond a good regular season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:09:54 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 03, 2009, 08:59:23 PM
    Bostic sprained his ankle in practice Thursday I believe.

    Thats not good. I'd rather have a small fracture than a sprain there. It is tough playing on that. I'm surprised he is playing tonight. Rest is the only way for those to heal, unless there is some tearing, in which case reconstructive surgery on an ankle is hell.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:10:26 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 03, 2009, 09:07:28 PM
    A nice drive and reverse lay-up by Rogers brings Ithaca within 1 point with about 12 left to play. Burton got hot to start the second half but cooled off. A lot of three pointers being shot by both teams.

    I should have gotten this one on E8 tv tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:13:32 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 08:50:42 PM

    Typical loser response from the grad of a school with a loser athletic department.

    Says a lot about the class of Utica College. The way you talk about officials, especially when you allegedly deal with them on a regular basis, and comment on other schools' players and coaches is beyond unprofessional. It's laughable and borderline pathetic.


    LOL. Pot, meet kettle.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 03, 2009, 09:20:06 PM
    St. John Fisher, either have the play by play people give them time more often or point the camera at the scoreboard during time-outs. About six minutes left, a Fisher player (Jordan Gettings) just hit a shot to put them up 1-point.

    Burton just hit a deep three, now Ithaca is up four. I think the Fisher female annoucer has a crush on Burton.

    2:30 left, IC up three.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 09:22:59 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:13:32 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 08:50:42 PM

    Typical loser response from the grad of a school with a loser athletic department.

    Says a lot about the class of Utica College. The way you talk about officials, especially when you allegedly deal with them on a regular basis, and comment on other schools' players and coaches is beyond unprofessional. It's laughable and borderline pathetic.


    LOL. Pot, meet kettle.

    Yeah, kind of the same. Except that I don't represent the school in any way. Nor do I claim to. So, actually, not the same at all. And the whole "you can't quit me" thing would have much more effect if you didn't give me 500 words each time I made a valid point that you can't refute (which is just about all of them).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 03, 2009, 09:29:15 PM
    Burton makes a cross court pass to a wide open Leahy for three. Then next time down the run the clock down and five with seconds left on the shot clock Brendan Rogers drives and gets an and one, hits the free throw, to put Ithaca up 71-62 with a minute left.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:34:31 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 09:22:59 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:13:32 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 08:50:42 PM

    Typical loser response from the grad of a school with a loser athletic department.

    Says a lot about the class of Utica College. The way you talk about officials, especially when you allegedly deal with them on a regular basis, and comment on other schools' players and coaches is beyond unprofessional. It's laughable and borderline pathetic.


    LOL. Pot, meet kettle.

    Yeah, kind of the same. Except that I don't represent the school in any way. Nor do I claim to. So, actually, not the same at all. And the whole "you can't quit me" thing would have much more effect if you didn't give me 500 words each time I made a valid point that you can't refute (which is just about all of them).

    Considering that I don't represent them anymore due to health problems of my family, and the things you claimed were false, it is exactly the same. And the next time you have a valid point will be the first.

    Still offended by me giving props to your assistants? The nerve of me to talk about coaches like that! How about this kettle, the way you trashed Mullins is what is pathetic and laughable. Give the guy some respect. He built a quality team even when getting verbally abused from people like you from his own school. Calling for his job.... guy will probably get coach of the year nominations...

    And once again Kettle, didn't you just trash Utica's coaching just yesterday? Hmmm....... maybe you should buy yourself a mirror.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 03, 2009, 09:37:40 PM
    UCgrad, don't know you or GoBombers personally but I do believe you are wrong with your impression on Ithaca. They have more than one thing going for them. I thought that they would lack mental toughness after watching almost every game last season but they have proven me wrong all-season. Also, not only can they score and run teams off the floor, but when a team changes the tempo (Hartwick) or when it is close at the end they step their play up. They have stepped up big in the closing minutes of close games.

    Even the RIT game, they made it close down the stretch and got themselves in that position after a bad performance for the majority of the game. They also rebounded from that fluke loss, the call that was clearly wrong but to keep going and playing well after that shows toughness. I know when I played that may have snowballed into a losing streak. Lastly, Burton is playing at a top notch level every game and when one player has a off night, someone else steps it up big.

    Ithaca wins 75-66. Which reminds me, besides having a great offense they can also hit free throws, which makes them so close in tough games. I have to say Bostic playing tonight makes a huge difference and he was noticeably limping all game. It was really bad after a fast break lay-up off a great baseball pass from Burton in the closing minutes.

    I think Ithaca is very tough and even though the offensive fire power makes it seem like they only have one thing going, the also have few more things: 1A- Play well in the end of close games. 1B- shoot free throws well. 2- Have mental toughness 3- Have solid 8-9 man rotation.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:37:56 PM
    BTW, UC and Oswego are in a 1 point game with 19 seconds left. No matter how it ends, I doubt it is as crazy as the Oswego Geneseo finish.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:40:25 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 03, 2009, 09:37:40 PM
    UCgrad, don't know you or GoBombers personally but I do believe you are wrong with your impression on Ithaca. They have more than one thing going for them. I thought that they lack mental toughness but they have proven me wrong all-season. Not only can they score and run teams off the floor, but when a team changes the tempo (Hartwick) or when it is close at the end they play even better. They have stepped up big in the closing minutes of close games.

    Even the RIT game, they made it close down the stretch and got themselves in that position after a bad performance for the majority of the game. They also rebounded from that fluke loss, call that was clearly wrong to keep going. I know when I played they would have snowballed into a losing streak. Burton is playing at a top notch level every game and when someone has a off night, someone else steps it up big.

    Ithaca wins 75-66. Which reminds me, besides having a great offense they can also hit free throws, which makes them so close in tough games. I have to say Bostic playing makes a huge difference and he was noticeably limping all game. Really badly after a fast break lay-up off a great baseball pass from Burton in the closing minutes. So I think Ithaca is very tough and even though the offensive fire power makes it seem like they only have one thing going, the also 1. Play well in the end of close games 2. (which goes with 1) shoot free throws well 3. Have mental toughness 4. Have solid 8-9 man rotation.



    Oh, no doubt. In a close game they have an edge about them. I won't deny that.

    The only thing that worries me about them is how they will respond to back to back games against tournament quality teams. The league really needs to add another team to give the experience every week of back to back games like it always was.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:41:44 PM
    UC scores with 10 seconds left and Herring gets a steal at the buzzer to win by one.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 09:46:10 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:34:31 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 09:22:59 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:13:32 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 08:50:42 PM

    Typical loser response from the grad of a school with a loser athletic department.

    Says a lot about the class of Utica College. The way you talk about officials, especially when you allegedly deal with them on a regular basis, and comment on other schools' players and coaches is beyond unprofessional. It's laughable and borderline pathetic.


    LOL. Pot, meet kettle.

    Yeah, kind of the same. Except that I don't represent the school in any way. Nor do I claim to. So, actually, not the same at all. And the whole "you can't quit me" thing would have much more effect if you didn't give me 500 words each time I made a valid point that you can't refute (which is just about all of them).

    Considering that I don't represent them anymore due to health problems of my family, and the things you claimed were false, it is exactly the same. And the next time you have a valid point will be the first.

    Still offended by me giving props to your assistants? The nerve of me to talk about coaches like that! How about this kettle, the way you trashed Mullins is what is pathetic and laughable. Give the guy some respect. He built a quality team even when getting verbally abused from people like you from his own school. Calling for his job.... guy will probably get coach of the year nominations...

    And once again Kettle, didn't you just trash Utica's coaching just yesterday? Hmmm....... maybe you should buy yourself a mirror.

    Yeah, I said this year's Utica team is poorly coached. That's trashing their coaching staff? And you're calling me insecure and sensitive? I think that's what psychologists refer to as projecting, right Mr. Message Board Therapist? And didn't you say just today you were running the "official" book for Saturday's game. That's a school representative, pal. How am I suppose to keep track of your story when you can't even seem to. And, by the way, earlier I was "viewing the world through blue and gold glasses" and now I'm being "disrespectful" to Ithaca's coach. Are you even trying to keep your story straight?

    And I trash Mullins? Not at all. I question him sometimes, sure, but I'm objective about it. I'm going to say something when you switch to zone when the best 3pt shooter in the league checks into the game. I'm going to say something when you have one of the top returning players in the conference and you don't utilize him as well as you could. I said last year he deserved Coach of the Year, didn't I? Sorry I'm not a blind lemming towards my alma mater like you seem to be.

    And the 23-7 UC team would be undefeated in this year's conference? Tough sell when you lost to a 14-13 RIT team that doesn't come close to this year's version of RIT or Ithaca. But what was the reason for that loss again? Rochester refs, I bet.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:54:07 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 09:46:10 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:34:31 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 09:22:59 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 09:13:32 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 08:50:42 PM

    Typical loser response from the grad of a school with a loser athletic department.

    Says a lot about the class of Utica College. The way you talk about officials, especially when you allegedly deal with them on a regular basis, and comment on other schools' players and coaches is beyond unprofessional. It's laughable and borderline pathetic.


    LOL. Pot, meet kettle.

    Yeah, kind of the same. Except that I don't represent the school in any way. Nor do I claim to. So, actually, not the same at all. And the whole "you can't quit me" thing would have much more effect if you didn't give me 500 words each time I made a valid point that you can't refute (which is just about all of them).

    Considering that I don't represent them anymore due to health problems of my family, and the things you claimed were false, it is exactly the same. And the next time you have a valid point will be the first.

    Still offended by me giving props to your assistants? The nerve of me to talk about coaches like that! How about this kettle, the way you trashed Mullins is what is pathetic and laughable. Give the guy some respect. He built a quality team even when getting verbally abused from people like you from his own school. Calling for his job.... guy will probably get coach of the year nominations...

    And once again Kettle, didn't you just trash Utica's coaching just yesterday? Hmmm....... maybe you should buy yourself a mirror.

    Yeah, I said this year's Utica team is poorly coached. That's trashing their coaching staff? And you're calling me insecure and sensitive? I think that's what psychologists refer to as projecting, right Mr. Message Board Therapist? And didn't you say just today you were running the "official" book for Saturday's game. That's a school representative, pal. How am I suppose to keep track of your story when you can't even seem to. And, by the way, earlier I was "viewing the world through blue and gold glasses" and now I'm being "disrespectful" to Ithaca's coach. Are you even trying to keep your story straight?

    And I trash Mullins? Not at all. I question him sometimes, sure, but I'm objective about it. I'm going to say something when you switch to zone when the best 3pt shooter in the league checks into the game. I'm going to say something when you have one of the top returning players in the conference and you don't utilize him as well as you could. I said last year he deserved Coach of the Year, didn't I? Sorry I'm not a blind lemming towards my alma mater like you seem to be.

    And the 23-7 UC team would be undefeated in this year's conference? Tough sell when you lost to a 14-13 RIT team that doesn't come close to this year's version of RIT or Ithaca. But what was the reason for that loss again? Rochester refs, I bet.


    For someone who skips over my posts, you sure do have a lot of detail. And no I didn't say I was doing their official book, just that I kept the running score and times. But yes, I did do it for one game this year as it was alumni weekend.

    And yes, the Fisher and Utica teams of that year would dominate every team in the league this year. UC's fourth best player on that team is on par with Burton. Position by position Herring V Burton, push. Cichon Vs. Anyone else, Cichon, Bryant V anyone else, Bryant. Lucas V Rogers Lucas, Lighthall V Bostic, Push.
    The bench of Collier, Munch, Brown, Bitetto, and Fleming  would have been quality starters on most of the teams in the conference this year. In fact the 5 of them could compete for anywhere from 3rd through 5th this season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 10:00:50 PM
    And oh yeah, gobombers has had his disdain for me since this day

    http://www.ithaca.edu/ithacan/articles/0603/01/sports/3utica_end.htm (http://www.ithaca.edu/ithacan/articles/0603/01/sports/3utica_end.htm)

    Reading that article, it sure sounds like to players, the regular season title means sooooo much more than NCAA's. Oh wait....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 10:06:41 PM
    BTW, Bellis was a real good guy. What is he doing these days?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Michigan452 on February 03, 2009, 10:09:12 PM
    Overall a hard fought game by both teams.  I think it comes down to coaching though.  Fisher should have called a timeout when Ithaca made the run at the end of the half.  And down the stretch Fisher made some very wierd substitutions.  Newman played a great game and Burton did what was expected.  Rodgers was very impressive also.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 10:13:24 PM
    Wow, the fourth best player on Utica would be on par with Sean Burton, huh? The word of the day is "hyperbole." The kid is going to finish with 1700 pts (more than Cichon). Burton will also be the leading assist guy in conference history by the end of the weekend, too. So the conference's all-time leading scorer and assist guy would only be the fourth best guy on a 23-7 team, huh? And Bostic, who may end up being a three-time 1st-team E8 player, is only on par with Jack Lighthall. Classic.

    UCgrad, scouring the Ithaca student newspapers to create more nonsense. Really? That's where you are right now? And when we win the regular season conference, the conference tourney and win two games in the NCAA Tourney, what drivel are you going to run then?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 10:17:16 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 10:13:24 PM
    Wow, the fourth best player on Utica would be on par with Sean Burton, huh? The word of the day is "hyperbole." The kid is going to finish with 1700 pts (more than Cichon). Burton will also be the leading assist guy in conference history by the end of the weekend, too. So the conference's all-time leading scorer and assist guy would only be the fourth best guy on a 23-7 team, huh? And Bostic, who may end up being a three-time 1st-team E8 player, is only on par with Jack Lighthall. Classic.

    UCgrad, scouring the Ithaca student newspapers to create more nonsense. Really? That's where you are right now? And when we win the regular season conference, the conference tourney and win two games in the NCAA Tourney, what drivel are you going to run then?



    Cichon scores 1500 career points, Herring will score 1,500, Lucas scored 1,000 while missing a full seasons worth of time, and Bryant scored 913 and had almost 500 rebounds in just two seasons. There isn't a team in the conference this year that will be able to say they had 4 players of that caliber on their roster at one time. Lighthall is the conferences all time leader in FG%.

    All 4 of them would have had even higher numbers if not for having spread the ball around to each other. As a team they averaged 18.8 assists per game, the highest in conference history. Herring was the 4th option on that team.

    And IF Ithaca goes that far, I will congratulate them. I just don't see them as ready to do it yet.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on February 03, 2009, 10:18:48 PM
    In other news, RIT moved to 11-0 in the conference and officially clinched a spot in the conference tourney with a 75-58 win over Alfred tonight.

    S. Roe with a career high 20 points and Carson went for 13 and 11 in 21 minutes of action.

    Next game for the Tigers is a week from today when they play SJF on the road. I know they beat SJF by 20 points earlier this year they always seem to be on the losing end playing at Fisher. Here's hoping this year's team turns that trend around.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: owen on February 03, 2009, 10:22:10 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 03, 2009, 09:20:06 PM
    St. John Fisher, either have the play by play people give them time more often or point the camera at the scoreboard during time-outs. About six minutes left, a Fisher player (Jordan Gettings) just hit a shot to put them up 1-point.

    Burton just hit a deep three, now Ithaca is up four. I think the Fisher female annoucer has a crush on Burton.

    2:30 left, IC up three.

    Indeed, I kept wondering how much time was left too. The announcers went LONG periods of time letting us wonder about the clock.

    P.S. That Fisher gym!
    Now I get it. It really IS a bandbox. The crowd seemed pretty quiet tonight, but I can see where it could be a nightmare to be a visiting team there. They're practically sitting on the court. It's claustrophobic!


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 10:30:18 PM
    Quote from: owen on February 03, 2009, 10:22:10 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 03, 2009, 09:20:06 PM
    St. John Fisher, either have the play by play people give them time more often or point the camera at the scoreboard during time-outs. About six minutes left, a Fisher player (Jordan Gettings) just hit a shot to put them up 1-point.

    Burton just hit a deep three, now Ithaca is up four. I think the Fisher female annoucer has a crush on Burton.

    2:30 left, IC up three.

    Indeed, I kept wondering how much time was left too. The announcers went LONG periods of time letting us wonder about the clock.

    P.S. That Fisher gym!
    Now I get it. It really IS a bandbox. The crowd seemed pretty quiet tonight, but I can see where it could be a nightmare to be a visiting team there. They're practically sitting on the court. It's claustrophobic!





    LOL, it used to be a lot worse when the students were almost on the court.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 10:41:06 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 10:17:16 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 10:13:24 PM
    Wow, the fourth best player on Utica would be on par with Sean Burton, huh? The word of the day is "hyperbole." The kid is going to finish with 1700 pts (more than Cichon). Burton will also be the leading assist guy in conference history by the end of the weekend, too. So the conference's all-time leading scorer and assist guy would only be the fourth best guy on a 23-7 team, huh? And Bostic, who may end up being a three-time 1st-team E8 player, is only on par with Jack Lighthall. Classic.

    UCgrad, scouring the Ithaca student newspapers to create more nonsense. Really? That's where you are right now? And when we win the regular season conference, the conference tourney and win two games in the NCAA Tourney, what drivel are you going to run then?



    Cichon scores 1500 career points, Herring scored 1,000, Lucas scored 1,000 while missing a full seasons worth of time, and Bryant scored 913 and had almost 500 rebounds in just two seasons. There isn't a team in the conference this year that will be able to say they had 4 players of that caliber on their roster at one time.

    All 4 of them would have had even higher numbers if not for having spread the ball around to each other.

    And IF Ithaca goes that far, I will congratulate them. I just don't see them as ready to do it yet.


    This is my last post of the evening on this topic. Even though I'm a lawyer, even I get tired of arguing after awhile. The bolded part above.

    -Burton will finish with 1700 pts and 500 assists. Without looking, I'm guessing that puts him in pretty select company nationwide, and in a class of his own in this conference (with respect to Sean O'Brien who had a great career in his own right).

    -Bostic will finish with 1200 pts, 800 rebs and 150 blocks, health permitting. All that in the equivalent of three seasons, considering he didn't play until the tail end of his freshman year and missed parts of his soph and junior seasons due to football commitments.

    -Leahy has a pretty good shot at 1,000 pts in just 3 seasons. Not bad for a guy who's been a #3 option his whole career.

    -Cruz will be The Guy after this season and is a virtual lock for 1,000 pts, and more likely 1,200 pts. The sky is the limit for him, especially if he puts on a little more bulk. He's in the mold of Jim Bellis, though slightly less athletic but is a little better shooter.

    -Marcus will score 1,000, too. He'll be over 1/4 of the way there after his freshman season. And he's only going to get better.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 10:45:02 PM
    Was impressed with Fisher tonight. I've got to admit, I'm very impressed with Matt Newman's growth as a player. He really turned it on at the end of last season and has impressed me this year when I've watched. I didn't expect him to end up having as good of a career as he did. Secondly, Ozell Franklin is going to be a stud in this league. He's already very good. I'm already touting him for 2010-11 E8 Player of the Year (Corey MacAdam in 2009-10).

    Burton's cross-court pass to Leahy in the corner for 3 was a backbreaker. I, too, am surprised Kornaker didn't call timeout during Ithaca's late first half run. I suppose he was returning the favor for Mullins not calling timeout when Fisher was extending their first half lead.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 10:55:43 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 10:41:06 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 10:17:16 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 10:13:24 PM
    Wow, the fourth best player on Utica would be on par with Sean Burton, huh? The word of the day is "hyperbole." The kid is going to finish with 1700 pts (more than Cichon). Burton will also be the leading assist guy in conference history by the end of the weekend, too. So the conference's all-time leading scorer and assist guy would only be the fourth best guy on a 23-7 team, huh? And Bostic, who may end up being a three-time 1st-team E8 player, is only on par with Jack Lighthall. Classic.

    UCgrad, scouring the Ithaca student newspapers to create more nonsense. Really? That's where you are right now? And when we win the regular season conference, the conference tourney and win two games in the NCAA Tourney, what drivel are you going to run then?



    Cichon scores 1500 career points, Herring scored 1,000, Lucas scored 1,000 while missing a full seasons worth of time, and Bryant scored 913 and had almost 500 rebounds in just two seasons. There isn't a team in the conference this year that will be able to say they had 4 players of that caliber on their roster at one time.

    All 4 of them would have had even higher numbers if not for having spread the ball around to each other.

    And IF Ithaca goes that far, I will congratulate them. I just don't see them as ready to do it yet.


    This is my last post of the evening on this topic. Even though I'm a lawyer, even I get tired of arguing after awhile. The bolded part above.

    -Burton will finish with 1700 pts and 500 assists. Without looking, I'm guessing that puts him in pretty select company nationwide, and in a class of his own in this conference (with respect to Sean O'Brien who had a great career in his own right).

    -Bostic will finish with 1200 pts, 800 rebs and 150 blocks, health permitting. All that in the equivalent of three seasons, considering he didn't play until the tail end of his freshman year and missed parts of his soph and junior seasons due to football commitments.

    -Leahy has a pretty good shot at 1,000 pts in just 3 seasons. Not bad for a guy who's been a #3 option his whole career.

    -Cruz will be The Guy after this season and is a virtual lock for 1,000 pts, and more likely 1,200 pts. The sky is the limit for him, especially if he puts on a little more bulk. He's in the mold of Jim Bellis, though slightly less athletic but is a little better shooter.

    -Marcus will score 1,000, too. He'll be over 1/4 of the way there after his freshman season. And he's only going to get better.

    We will have to agree to disagree. Burton is no Ray Bryant. 4 years of Ray and he would be pushing 2000 and 1000.  Cichon puts Leahy to shame. Herring is a much better player than Cruz, and Bostic and Willie Lucas were very similar, missing virtually the same amount of PT. Collier and Lighthall managed to combine for over 1000 despite being 5th and 6th options. Bryant and Cichon played semi-pro (not the lame movie, which I was disappointed with).

    Herring, the 4th option, will score 1500, around 500 assists, and 450 rebounds.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 03, 2009, 11:29:25 PM
    Bombers continue to show why they are ranked in the Top 10. Another tough road test, another scrappy win. Burton just keeps putting up 20 points a night. What strikes me about him is the amazing consistency he has. Never scoring fewer than 12 points in a game and only twice scoring under 16. That sort of steady play has been the key for Ithaca this season. And to come from behind on a team that desperately needed a win just shows how resilient this team is. And once again, the team's ability to hit free throws makes a difference.

    Continues to look like RIT-Ithaca will decide this conference, as the Tigers roll over Alfred tonight. Nazareth moves into a tie for fourth as Corey McAdam posts a triple-double. My only concern with Naz is that they may be up to their old tricks on defense. 56 points in a half against Elmira?

    I'd like to put Stevens in the mix for #4, but they're a game behind everyone at this point and I'd suspect their two games against RIT and Ithaca on the road will be the end for them.

    Who takes the four spot is a mystery. Right now, Utica's got the inside track. Naz still has games against RIT and IC remaining, although they did beat the Tigers once. Here's how I see it going down:

    Naz: Gets SJF at the right time, and will handle Elmira again. Likely to lose to both RIT and IC, but if they can get by Alfred, would be 8-7 in conference with the Utica game left out

    Utica: Should top both Hartwick and Elmira with ease. If SJF isn't back on track, could beat them handily, but they have to go on the road against a team that beat them. Also have to go on the road and play Stevens and Alfred. I think they'll take 2 of 3 and will be 9-6 in conference with the Naz game to go.

    So it may come down to the winner of the Naz-Utica game. Personally, I'd rather see Naz. It's hard to tell how good Utica would be on the road. They got it to 7 against Ithaca in the 2nd half, but it got to 14 less than 2 minutes later and never went closer than 11 after that. Nazareth was never in their game at IC. Utica didn't look terribly great against RIT on the road either.

    I think Utica will take that final spot, which isn't all that bad. They spent 36 minutes trailing a full-strength IC team and trailed by double-digits most of the time.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 03, 2009, 11:49:52 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 05:31:35 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 03, 2009, 03:36:07 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 03, 2009, 02:57:22 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 03, 2009, 09:49:47 AM

    Uhhh, what? Not a shot at Ithaca at all.



    WHOOOOOOOSH. Neither was mine.



    FWIW, UC was only down by 3, and a few seconds later there was a score on the other end. Considering that I kept the running score complete with times, I know what I am talking about.

    Trahms didn't say a word on the Tech. The ref explained that he didn't like the "push" on the foul. That was his explanation to the coach and the table. His crew mates didn't agree with him.

    And last year, Naz did get the win early in the season from the same Ref who hoses UC out of at least 1 game a year, usually the only one he does. UC outscored them by over 20 from the field. It was something like a 28-5 differential in ft's in a 2 point game. UC proved they were the better team when they smoked them the second time around. Regardless, this is nothing but posturing on your part.

    This has nothing to do with the fact that IC looked like two different teams in those halves. Rather than get angry over someone pointing out a concern that I bet even IC's own coaches have, take off your blue and gold glasses.


    And bombers, anyone that was there knows that this game was a lot closer than it looked. I understand that gobombers gets his panties in a bunch when someone point out facts he doesn't like. The simple fact is, if UC had made their FT's and taken care of business, it was a different game at the end. That isn't taking anything away from IC, just stating a fact.







    Sure it would have been a different game if they could hit free throws. Of course, if Ithaca wasn't missing a guy averaging 11.9/11.4, it would have been a different game as well. But that doesn't warrant a discussion from you does it? The Bombers missing their third-leading scorer and leading rebounder? 

    You want a fact? Here's a fact. Utica shoots 65% from the free throw line on the season. They took 11 free throws in the game. If they had hit on 65% of them, they would have made 7. Instead, they made 5. That's two points. Two. You can give them to Herring. He was 0-3 and usually is good on 64%. There you go. Straight up facts. Utica was 5-11 from the line, and their season percentage usually is around 7-11. Take the two points if they mean that much to you. You'd still be playing the "What if" game trying to scrape together a win from that. That's a fact.

    Ithaca won that game, in part, because of their free-throw shooting ability.  But free throw shooting is a skill just like any other. A skill that apparently, Utica players don't have, at least in comparison to the Bombers. To say, "Well if Utica could hit their free throws" is easy to say, but Utica's not very good at shooting them. Ithaca is. Sean Burton and Brendan Rogers are two of the best free throw shooters in the conference. Maybe if they'd have gone to Utica, the Pioneers would have won that game. We can play the what if game all day if you want, but since you like facts, here's a few:

    Ithaca beat Utica twice.
    Ithaca has a significantly better record than Utica
    Ithaca is in the Top 10
    Utica is not.
    Utica will have to fight just to sneak in the E8 tournament, in hopes of getting a backdoor invite to the NCAA's.
    Ithaca would have to lose out to miss out, and even then, they'd probably make it.
    Ithaca is a better basketball team than Utica. Free throws and all.




    And what does any of your irrelevant ranting have to do with the fact that IC struggled and looked like a different team in the second half when they were forced to play back to back games for the first time all season?

    Pointing that out is a far cry from suggesting whatever it is you think I am suggesting. Typical Ithaca fan.

    Typical UC fan, ignoring facts that weaken his argument. Jeff Bostic would have made no difference in that half I'm sure. You state your desire for facts and then ignore ones that don't support your position.

    I was addressing your earlier point that if UC had hit their free throws, they'd have been in the game. Which isn't true, because it didn't really have an effect on the score at all. They missed two more than they usually would have. If you're going to make claims, back them up with numbers.

    Who cares that the Bombers looked like a "different team"? Every team is going to have games where they struggle, and yeah, the 2nd half of a back-to-back is one of those times. So what? Maybe it was because it was the second part of a back-to-back. Maybe it was because they were missing their 2nd best player. Maybe it's because Ithaca spends all their time on the road, and don't have the benefit of an home heavy schedule like you guys do. Don't teams usually play worse on the road than they do at home? Don't teams normally struggle when they're missing their 2nd-best player? You want to chalk it all up to a back-to-back, that's fine, but you'll excuse us if we want to discuss the possibility of their being other factors.

    And maybe the lack of back-to-backs spells doom for some game in the NCAA's. You're right, we haven't seen Ithaca perform solidly in those. Of course, we also haven't seen a team come within 22 points of Ithaca at home, where a few of these NCAA games are likely to be played. Or is that another fact you want to ignore?

    Hope to see you again in the E8 tournament!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on February 04, 2009, 12:01:16 AM
    Jimmy Evans had 1100 points and nearly 300 assists in his 2 seasons at Nazareth. I would at least put him in that category with Burton. Although I only was around one of his 2 years he was easily one of the best players I have ever seen playmakers I have seen play in the E-8. Difference is he was 6'5 and playing out of position at the point.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on February 04, 2009, 08:46:54 AM
    The biggest difference with Jimmy Evans is that he didn't make his team better. Sure he could score and did have some assists but with him, Maroney, and I believe Zablocky (or Lieska or whatever his name was) they had one of the most talented teams in the league and they didn't amount to anything. In the games I saw they never played as a team and even looked like they didn't really enjoy playing together. Overall they were a disappointment.

    Of course with Daley coaching, that's par for the course. Naz always has talent yet always seem to underachieve.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 04, 2009, 09:10:15 AM
    First off, I was wrong about Fisher IC game.... I thought Fisher was through, but they have something left... Still lost but not by 18 as I predicted....I believe the first 3 spots are done.... 4th is interesting... Stevens needs to beat Utica, at home very doable... they need to beat Elmira away BE CAREFUL here, and Alfred at home, no problem.... Hartwick away, another problem..Then they need to pick off IC or RIT away... Don't think so...If they do all that they will have gone 5-1 the rest of the way they will have 9 wins... Extremely unrealistic.

    So Stevens is basically done.... Now NAZ and Utica........ I'll go with UC and I believe # 4 is 8-8........what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 04, 2009, 09:25:57 AM
    That Naz team was probably as talented as a team the e8 has seen  just couldnt put the pieces together mixed with bad coaching and lack of defense.

    Jake Steck 6'2  - 4 time starting pg
    Jimmy evans 6'5 - as good as anyone
    Maroney - 6'6 d1 transfer from san diego athletic as anyone in e8
    dave gary 6'5 - good role player
    zablock 6'6 - beast in side
    lasieka 6'6 - great post player with talented 6'9 ryan shiply to mix it up in there too

    from the looks of last nights game it was the difference between a mature veteran ithaca team and a young fisher team.  The difference in free throws was also huge.  Fisher is really starting to miss their starting 4man and anthony hall.   Good win for Ithaca on the road, there chances of finishing the reg season without another loss is pretty good.  For fisher they have a tough road a head and my not make the e8 tourny unless they step it up.  It appears ithaca has the toughness to fight back and close out games this year which will be huge come tourny time.  However, im not 100% sold on how good they actually are as said before the area is so weak.  But it is what it is and hopefully they can advance to the sweet 16 or elite 8 having to face anyone really good.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on February 04, 2009, 11:26:13 AM
    Dynasty while you are correct on many of your parents, Lisiecka and Maroney never played together. Lisiecka was gone the previous year, and Steck was the off guard, Evans played the point. Thats why I said he was playing out of position...... That team was an incredibly loaded team, but did play bad defense and it seems were sometimes poorly coached. That being said they went 22-6 (12-2 in the Empire 8, finishing second to a 13-1 Fisher team) and lost to RIT in the ECAC finals. They also won the Chase tournament beating U of R who was 14-1 and ranked # 2 in the country. This was in 2003 before the NCAA expanded the Division 3 field, so at large bids were few and far between. I say that was a very successful season.

    RITfan before Evans got to Naz they had been losing every year since the Greg Dunne-Chris Pagan-Zach Wein era. While I dont think Evans did as much for his team that Dunne did he helped turn around a losing program going 17-10 and 22-5, scoring 1100 points with nearly 300 assists and led the conference in scoring and assists in back to back years (He was E-8 player of the year once and might have been twice had he not made some off court mistakes) while playing out of position. He definitely didnt do the intangibles that Dunne did in taking his team to the next level, but I still think he made his teammates a whole lot better.

    Naz has won 3 in a row, sneaking up on the 4 seed. I guarantee you nobody wants to play them in the first round including Ithaca (year throw 122 points at me all you want, Naz is a much better defensive team now than they were then. They could be extremely dangerous as nobody has as good a 3-headed monster as Dihimer plus Mcadam squared......only problem is they have nobody else :)

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on February 04, 2009, 11:29:08 AM
    obviously I meant points not parents ^^^. please excuse the typo.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 04, 2009, 11:58:23 AM
    Nastynate, you are right about the rosters.  By no means was it not a successful season just a little disspointing based on the talent and not making the ncaa tourny.  Theres no way the fisher team consisting of the following:

    Matt St. Croix   6'0 sr
    Aarron Berwanging 6'2 sr
    Nick Bennett  6'4 freshmen
    Jeff Sidney 6'4 soph
    Nick ripple 6'6 jr

    should have taken the league that year.  although they were good, the're key contributers were fresh and soph plus berwanger

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on February 04, 2009, 12:05:13 PM
    Berwanger was not there (graduated with Lisiecka), and you are forgetting about the Mcgee brothers (Mike had a big freshman year) and of course debatably their best player that year in Matt Morley. The talent was extremely close and Fisher did the intangibles better.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 04, 2009, 12:47:10 PM
    Quote from: NaztyNate on February 04, 2009, 12:05:13 PM
    Berwanger was not there (graduated with Lisiecka), and you are forgetting about the Mcgee brothers (Mike had a big freshman year) and of course debatably their best player that year in Matt Morley. The talent was extremely close and Fisher did the intangibles better.

    I suspect we'll know more about IC/Naz when they play again. If Naz turns it into a game, maybe. But if they get their doors blown off again...

    The thing with that 122 point game was that IC cleared their bench off with about 7:30 to go, up 32 points. If they'd kept their starters in, it would have gotten worse. The thing that struck me was that Naz's defense wasn't able to get any stops at all and make any kind of a run in the 2nd half. It started with them down 21 and they never got closer than 16. With that offense they have, I mean, any sort of stop can lead to a run. But it wasn't there.

    I said a few posts back that Naz had stepped up on defense, but IC is in a whole other offensive category. They are second in the NCAA's in scoring offense (Behind only Grinnell's system) and 4th in fewest turnovers. St. John Fisher allows only 60 points a game, which is one of the reasons they held the Bombers in the 70's. I'm hesitant to think that Naz can do the same.

    But I've been wrong before. Any team that can score like Naz is dangerous, especially at home
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on February 04, 2009, 12:58:51 PM
    The Alfred roster of the early 2000s was pretty loaded with talent as well.

    G--Devon Downing--2x All American and over 2500 career pts.
    F--EJ Doctuer--1x All-American and 1500pt. scorer
    G--Willie Smith--Very good PG when healthy
    F--Brock Stortini--Banger
    C--Kareem McKinnon--All time leader in Blocks
    G--Tanner Webb--Great Shooter
    G--Rob Stedman--Great Shooter
    G/F--Chris Koek--Excellent Defender/Role Player
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 04, 2009, 01:01:49 PM
    Nazty, I'd love to play Naz in the E8 Tournament. That's no disrespect for Naz, but they get caught up in those freewheeling, high scoring games, which plays right into Ithaca's biggest strength. I don't think Daley is a good enough coach to keep them disciplined and avoiding that style which always seems too tempting for Naz to ignore. Naz hasn't beaten Ithaca in The Bulb since 2002-03 when they had the aforementioned Evens-Zablocki-Maroney-Steck crew. I'd take my chances against Naz.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on February 04, 2009, 02:21:04 PM
    Razor makes a good point, AU was loaded those years as well. Injuries and bad coaching killed them.

    Will Smith barely played due to injuries once they got Downey back. I don't think I ever saw them on court at the same time. If they were Smith could have pushed Downey to the 2-guard and that team would have been dangerous.
    Doctuer and Stortini were injured a lot those years and missed stretches as well.

    Nate, I don't recall the Dunne teams before Evans but I agree that Naz has always been talented but never lived up to potential. From the games I saw Evans played, I'd have to disagree about making his teammates better, they just all seemed disinterested since Evans was always dominating the ball. Granted what I saw was a small sample size.

    Really when it comes down to underachieving teams at AU and  Naz there is one common trait, Absolutely aweful coaching. Too bad for AU they didn't have their new coach with the talent they had a few years back.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on February 04, 2009, 02:38:38 PM
    Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I dont see how you can lead the conference in assists AND win games and not make your teammates better. But to each his own.......

    Bomber I think you are underestimating this Naz team just a bit. They are quite a better team than the one you saw a month ago. They were on the verge of winning the Chase after stomping RIT in round 1, and although they havent played much as far as competition lately, theyve won games on the road. I guess we'll see how they bounce back this Saturday in the East Ave. showdown.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on February 04, 2009, 02:45:39 PM
    Fair enough Nate.
    Part of my opinion of Evans is based on his on-court attitude and off-court problems but I agree he was a very good individual talent.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 04, 2009, 03:13:06 PM
    East Region rankings came out today:

    1. Ithaca
    2. St. Lawrence
    3. Hamilton
    4. Rochester
    5. RIT

    No surprise with IC at the top. RIT slides in at #5
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 04, 2009, 11:09:22 PM
    Quote from: NaztyNate on February 04, 2009, 02:38:38 PM
    Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I dont see how you can lead the conference in assists AND win games and not make your teammates better. But to each his own.......

    Bomber I think you are underestimating this Naz team just a bit. They are quite a better team than the one you saw a month ago. They were on the verge of winning the Chase after stomping RIT in round 1, and although they havent played much as far as competition lately, theyve won games on the road. I guess we'll see how they bounce back this Saturday in the East Ave. showdown.

    No underestimating at all. Look at posts before the season, I picked them to come in 3rd this year. I think the MacAdams' are very good players. DeHimer is an above-average big, too. It's not their personnel I have a problem with. It's the coaching. I'm not sure Daley can impose the discipline to keep Naz out of a run-and-gun game with Ithaca, a style that favors the Bombers (especially IF the game is played in Ithaca and they can start feeding off the crowd). I think Naz will give Ithaca a very tough game at Kidera. But if I'm Naz, I'm hoping against hope that a) I make the E8 Tourney, and b) RIT is their 1st round matchup because they know they can beat RIT and there's a lot of familarity between the two teams since they've played roughly 29 times in the past 4 years (or so it seems).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Michigan452 on February 05, 2009, 12:34:07 PM
    gobombers15, you are ridiculous to think that Ozell Franklin will be a future e8 player of the year.  The only way that would happen is due to the fact that the e8 is losing so many good players this year.  Franklin either goes 10-10 or 0-30 in games.  Either way he keeps shooting.  I would say next year it will be McAdam.  the year after that will be wide open.  But I would say that Brandon Witte or even Jordan Gettings will be an all league player for fisher.  Looking at other teams the league will really be down.  The Major kid for Naz will be really good by then to.  So lets not go jumping to conclusions just yet.  You know RIT and Stevens recruit around the country so they could bring in someone really talented also.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 05, 2009, 02:41:59 PM
    Quote from: Michigan452 on February 05, 2009, 12:34:07 PM
    gobombers15, you are ridiculous to think that Ozell Franklin will be a future e8 player of the year.  The only way that would happen is due to the fact that the e8 is losing so many good players this year.  Franklin either goes 10-10 or 0-30 in games.  Either way he keeps shooting.  I would say next year it will be McAdam.  the year after that will be wide open.  But I would say that Brandon Witte or even Jordan Gettings will be an all league player for fisher.  Looking at other teams the league will really be down.  The Major kid for Naz will be really good by then to.  So lets not go jumping to conclusions just yet.  You know RIT and Stevens recruit around the country so they could bring in someone really talented also.

    You can tell it's February because it's getting contentious in here and even harmless statements get tough responses. Didn't really think my Ozell Franklin comment would elicit such a response. I didn't say that he WOULD be the E8 POY in 2010-11, I just said that, as of this day and based on what I have seen, I think he may be. Or, alternatively, he'll be in the conversation. Obviously, I can't know such a thing over two years in advance. We have two years worth of players who aren't even enrolled in college yet. There are probably some freshmen playing limited minutes or buried on a bench who will come bursting on the scene. And Franklin certainly has some competition from the already productive freshmen and sophomores in this league. Please recognize the difference between a statement of fact and an educated guess.

    Besides, it's not like that guess is coming out of left field. He was co-Rookie of the Year last year, he's in the top 5 of freshmen/sophomore scoring and, just as importantly, he'll be on a team that by then will be winning a lot of games; a fact that will hurt a lot of his statistical equals (DiPiazza from Elmira, Stopera and Kwiecen from Alfred, Blazek from Hartwick). There are several good freshmen who will also contend, as well as several good sophs like the aforementioned and Chris Cruz of Ithaca. Of course I don't know for sure who will win it. Did you expect Mark Carson to be a co-favorite at this point two years ago? But don't act like there's no basis to the opinion.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 05, 2009, 03:06:17 PM
    I have to agree with gobombers here.  When I saw Ozell as a freshman last year I thought by his senior season he'll be one of the better players in the conference.  The kid has ability, athleticism, and as mentioned, Fisher is usually one of the top teams.  As for his shooting woes, what is that supposed to prove?  Though in my opinion Ozell won't be as good overall, his shooting is no worse than Waleed Farid's from last season (less than 40% from field, less than 30% from 3) and there is no question that Farid was still in the conversation for e8 player of the year last year based on his overall numbers and the fact that Stevens was winning.


    So in summary, the only thing ridiculous is saying that looking at what Ozell's done, and the fact that he's only a sophomore with 2 more years to play and *gasp* could have better shooting seasons than this one, has no chance of even being in the discussion two years from now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Michigan452 on February 05, 2009, 03:53:43 PM
    Ok gobombers you have a point.  Maybe I was alittle to brash.  But I have to disagree with Cylone and comparing Franklin to Farid.  Farid did so much more than score.  He was a guard/forward who had above average rebounding, passing, and blocking skills also.  Franklin is primarily a scorer and his defense is still a huge question.  So I guess we will just have to see how things pan in next couple of seasons.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 05, 2009, 06:22:07 PM
    One thing that Franklin has going for him is just a rediculous amount of athleticism. He is strong, quick, and can jump out of the building. Looking at him last year, I thought he had a lot of potential, but made some very bad decisions. This year, I think he is making better decisions, but still takes some bad shots at times. I think with another year or two he will overcome the need to light up the scoresheet, and just let his talent do its thing. I don't see any reason that he would not have a great chance to be a POY at some point. He is just one of those matchup problems that come around every once in a while.

    Interestingly, even tho Fisher has been at the top of the standings most of the time in the E8, they really have not had those totally dominant players that win POY. Don't get me wrong, they have had a few, but they seem to win more with team basketball than anything else. Sounds great on a chalkboard, but I would love to have a Sean Burton on the team next year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 06, 2009, 04:14:26 AM
    Mich,

    I specifically stated that Ozell will NOT be good as Farid overall.  My point was that Ozell's shooting will be no worse than Farid's during his senior year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 06, 2009, 07:51:49 AM
    I could have a better shooting % than Farid..and I am blind.... I got to see Satevens quite a bit and Farid was an interesting player. he scored BUT shot too much, particularly 3's since he really couldn't shoot a 3... % was horrible. Had a lot of assists, BUT had way too many turnovers....... He got to the foul line a lot, but horrible Free throw %, the one thing I give him credit for is he could rebound for someone his size.  hey he came to Stevens when they had nothing and he was the man for 2 years... did what he wanted to, so when the Grey's, Greco's and Passalaqua's came along he really should have adjusted, but and not his fault, the coaches let him go.  Hey they went to sweet 16 and won ECAC, so props to him and those guys I just mentioned. Speaking of which, they lose Grey, and Passalaqua, as well as Baker after this year. I wonder if Greco will come back... I have been told he is in school and has a pretty good intern-ship going on... If he comes back, that would help the Ducks in that they don't have any points on the team now, and even if they recruit a freshman, he could use a year of learning????

    But Stevens will need Smith and Higgans to step up as well, and either find a 3 point shooter, OR let Greco shoot ( if he returns) I believe he shot well from the 3. Why am I talking about Stevens when my Tigers are in the thick of it. I heard Farid and just got sucked it.

    Looks like UC is in best position of NAZ, Fischer, Stevens and UC.... They do not play IC or RIT again..... That should help them possibly get the 3 spot... Fisher is reeling right now, BUT Kornaker will probably right the ship, but what do I know ;)




       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 06, 2009, 09:26:53 AM
    sjfc, i agree fisher does get it done with team basketball.  But i disagree with POY players.  The problem is when fisher was at the top 2003-2007 era specifically 2005 and 2006 everyone on their starting 5 was as good as the top player on other e8 teams.  if those players were distributed to other e8 teams their individual stats would have been comparable to POY candidates.  Even with the lower stats 11-12 pts per game sean o'brien, jeff sidney both received POY awards and they had multiple first teamers.  There just isnt enough stats in a game to have stand out performances when a different player leads the team in scoring each game depending on match ups and the top scoring getting about 9 shots per game when your playing a team with 2 good players each getting 15 shots up.  Like said in the prior year those 2 fisher teams would have beaten the rest of the e8 allstar teams in my opinion.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 06, 2009, 02:24:26 PM
    Quote from: Razor on February 04, 2009, 12:58:51 PM
    The Alfred roster of the early 2000s was pretty loaded with talent as well.

    G--Devon Downing--2x All American and over 2500 career pts.
    F--EJ Doctuer--1x All-American and 1500pt. scorer
    G--Willie Smith--Very good PG when healthy
    F--Brock Stortini--Banger
    C--Kareem McKinnon--All time leader in Blocks
    G--Tanner Webb--Great Shooter
    G--Rob Stedman--Great Shooter
    G/F--Chris Koek--Excellent Defender/Role Player


    While injuries may have played a role, there is no question the coaching was a major factor in these guys not making significant noise in the E8. Of course, Downing's talent was surpassed only by his alcoholism/stupid decision making off the court that impacted his on the court actions.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 06, 2009, 03:05:59 PM
    BTW, the regional rankings are out:

    East
    1. Ithaca 17-1 15-1
    2. St. Lawrence 13-4 11-4
    3. Hamilton 12-5 10-1
    4. Rochester 13-5 13-5
    5. Rochester Tech 14-4 11-4

    I was wondering why we hadn't heard from Fisher Dynasty about Fisher getting an at-large bid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 06, 2009, 05:48:50 PM
    well 3 straight losses might be a reason? at large bid looks slim now.  Never said it couldnt happen, I didnt have high expectations for this years team anyways.  They are still exceeding mine.  If they win out and loose conf tournament championship they will have shot at making the tourny still.  do i think that will happen? no.  they will probably have to win the conf tourny.   IF they beat ithaca and rit during reg season and beat rit again in the e8 tourny they will ge tan automatic bid if the conf tourny champ is there only other loss of the season mark my words.  However, its probably not worth talking about bc they will probably get beat at utica or at naz, and maybe rit and probably ithaca again.


    As far as the alfred team.  Talent is talent, but theres a difference between a talented team that does nothing and a talented team that proves how talented they really are on the court no matter what adversity they face.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 06, 2009, 07:55:40 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 06, 2009, 09:26:53 AM
    sjfc, i agree fisher does get it done with team basketball.  But i disagree with POY players.  The problem is when fisher was at the top 2003-2007 era specifically 2005 and 2006 everyone on their starting 5 was as good as the top player on other e8 teams.  if those players were distributed to other e8 teams their individual stats would have been comparable to POY candidates.  Even with the lower stats 11-12 pts per game sean o'brien, jeff sidney both received POY awards and they had multiple first teamers.  There just isnt enough stats in a game to have stand out performances when a different player leads the team in scoring each game depending on match ups and the top scoring getting about 9 shots per game when your playing a team with 2 good players each getting 15 shots up.  Like said in the prior year those 2 fisher teams would have beaten the rest of the e8 allstar teams in my opinion.

    Mike McGee was NOT as good as Justin Cichon, Ray Bryant, Sean Murphy, Jim Bellis, just to name a few.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 06, 2009, 09:17:19 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 06, 2009, 05:48:50 PM

    As far as the alfred team.  Talent is talent, but theres a difference between a talented team that does nothing and a talented team that proves how talented they really are on the court no matter what adversity they face.

    I completely agree. They wasted a ton of talent, due in large part to the coach who was not a good decision maker and couldn't keep his players disciplined enough off the court to perform well on the court. There is no reason -- based on pure talent -- that those teams shouldn't have won the league, or at least made more noise.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 06, 2009, 09:31:22 PM
    UC over Elmira 70-47. Herring goes off for 25 points, 13 rebounds and 4 assists. James Patterson scores 10. No surprise here. UC getting a win that it needs to and should.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 06, 2009, 10:02:25 PM
    Bombers walk all over Hartwick 78-59 sans Jeff Bostic. Credit the Ithaca coaching staff with this one. Constant defensive pressure led to some turnovers in the backcourt, shot clock and 5 second violations. IC took the lead for good when Cruz hit three layups in 25 seconds after two Hawk turnovers in the back court

    Sean Burton goes for 16 with 11 assists to become the school's all-time leader in helpers. Sean Leahy has a phenomenal game with 20 points, 6 boards and great defense. Leahy, Cruz and Burton shoot the lights out, going a combined 21-37 from the floor.

    Gotta say, Hartwick disappointed me tonight. It's one thing to come in with a game strategy to slow things down. It's another to run 30 seconds a possession off when you're down 18 with eight minutes to go. In the first meeting, it was a smart thing to do because they kept the game close and had some chances to get a win. In this one, they trailed almost the entire game, most of it by double-digits. Really think they should have tried something else in the 2nd half.

    Additionally, the strategy meant Hartwick rarely had time to go inside and try and take advantage of Bostic's absence to get some layups or draws fouls. Hartwick only got to the line three times.  In the second half, Hartwick looked like they were trying to limit the amount they lost by, which is disappointing to see. They really have no great option after Cocozziello.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 07, 2009, 12:03:16 AM
    RIT pounds visiting SUNY Cobleskill 80-52. Tigers up 26-24 with 7:39 left in the 1st half, proceed to go on a 26-2 run to double up Cobleskill 52-26 at the break. Carson leads the way with 19 pts and 13 boards. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 07, 2009, 12:24:55 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 07, 2009, 12:03:16 AM
    RIT pounds visiting SUNY Cobleskill 80-52. Tigers up 26-24 with 7:39 left in the 1st half, proceed to go on a 26-2 run to double up Cobleskill 52-26 at the break. Carson leads the way with 19 pts and 13 boards. 

    Carson and Burton show no signs of slowing down. February 22 will decide this once and for all
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 07, 2009, 01:28:28 AM
    Stevens nips visiting Alfred 71-69. The Ducks, down 11, 57-46 with 9:18 to play go on a 13-0 run to grab the lead 59-57. Back and forth play until Stevens goes up for good 70-69 on a 3 by Anthony Passalacqua with 1:34 to play. It was his 7th 3 pointer of the night. He also scored his 1000th career point and set a Stevens record for career 3 pt. field goals. He now has 214 breaking the old mark of 211. Stevens next game is at Ithaca on Tuesday the 10th.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 07, 2009, 09:12:22 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 07, 2009, 12:24:55 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 07, 2009, 12:03:16 AM
    RIT pounds visiting SUNY Cobleskill 80-52. Tigers up 26-24 with 7:39 left in the 1st half, proceed to go on a 26-2 run to double up Cobleskill 52-26 at the break. Carson leads the way with 19 pts and 13 boards. 

    Carson and Burton show no signs of slowing down. February 22 will decide this once and for all

    Indeed.  These races (League MVP and conference championship) have been a fantastic surprise and a lot of fun (from my perspective, of course). 

    Even if the Tigers drop one (and it would truly be incredible if they get to 15-0), that Feb 22nd game will decide home court for the league tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 07, 2009, 10:23:38 AM
    Quote from: bamm on February 07, 2009, 09:12:22 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 07, 2009, 12:24:55 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 07, 2009, 12:03:16 AM
    RIT pounds visiting SUNY Cobleskill 80-52. Tigers up 26-24 with 7:39 left in the 1st half, proceed to go on a 26-2 run to double up Cobleskill 52-26 at the break. Carson leads the way with 19 pts and 13 boards. 

    Carson and Burton show no signs of slowing down. February 22 will decide this once and for all

    Indeed.  These races (League MVP and conference championship) have been a fantastic surprise and a lot of fun (from my perspective, of course). 

    Even if the Tigers drop one (and it would truly be incredible if they get to 15-0), that Feb 22nd game will decide home court for the league tourney.

    This has probably been addressed, but what happens if Ithaca beats RIT that game and they wind up with identical records?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 07, 2009, 10:30:32 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on February 07, 2009, 10:23:38 AM
    Quote from: bamm on February 07, 2009, 09:12:22 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 07, 2009, 12:24:55 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 07, 2009, 12:03:16 AM
    RIT pounds visiting SUNY Cobleskill 80-52. Tigers up 26-24 with 7:39 left in the 1st half, proceed to go on a 26-2 run to double up Cobleskill 52-26 at the break. Carson leads the way with 19 pts and 13 boards. 

    Carson and Burton show no signs of slowing down. February 22 will decide this once and for all

    Indeed.  These races (League MVP and conference championship) have been a fantastic surprise and a lot of fun (from my perspective, of course). 

    Even if the Tigers drop one (and it would truly be incredible if they get to 15-0), that Feb 22nd game will decide home court for the league tourney.

    This has probably been addressed, but what happens if Ithaca beats RIT that game and they wind up with identical records?

    Well, then they go to the video tape and determine that RIT's win against IC really wasn't a win, coming as it did on a shot that was 45 seconds after the final buzzer.  Therefore, IC is crowned champion.  Of course, I could be wrong....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 07, 2009, 10:50:30 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on February 07, 2009, 10:23:38 AM
    Quote from: bamm on February 07, 2009, 09:12:22 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 07, 2009, 12:24:55 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 07, 2009, 12:03:16 AM
    RIT pounds visiting SUNY Cobleskill 80-52. Tigers up 26-24 with 7:39 left in the 1st half, proceed to go on a 26-2 run to double up Cobleskill 52-26 at the break. Carson leads the way with 19 pts and 13 boards. 

    Carson and Burton show no signs of slowing down. February 22 will decide this once and for all

    Indeed.  These races (League MVP and conference championship) have been a fantastic surprise and a lot of fun (from my perspective, of course). 

    Even if the Tigers drop one (and it would truly be incredible if they get to 15-0), that Feb 22nd game will decide home court for the league tourney.

    This has probably been addressed, but what happens if Ithaca beats RIT that game and they wind up with identical records?

    In-region SoS will end up being the deciding tiebreaker. I haven't seen the numbers yet, but I'm pretty sure that Ithaca holds a significant edge in that statistic. For all intents and purposes, barring something crazy, that game will be for the right to host the E8 Tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 07, 2009, 11:01:45 AM
    As a sidenote, congratulations to Jeff Bostic who this week was named to the District I College Division All-Academic Team. He was one of only six players selected for the first team. This award makes him eligible to become and Academic All-American, an award which will be announced on February 25th.

    District I encompasses all schools (D1, D2, D3, NAIA) in New York, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont. Even more impressive when you think of how many schools that is and how many eligible players. Once again, congrats to him, well-deserved.
    Title: District I College Division All-Academic Team.
    Post by: RITFAN on February 07, 2009, 01:56:04 PM
    From the RIT website - I believe this is the team Gobombers is referring to. Congratulations to both Mark and Jeff

    ROCHESTER, NY - Senior center Mark Carson (Voorheesville, NY/Voorheesville) of the RIT men's basketball team was named to the 2008-09 CoSIDA/ESPN The Magazine Academic All-Region first team on Thursday.  Carson is now eligible to earn Academic All-American honors, which will be announced at a later date.

    Carson, a packaging science major, has a 3.41 grade-point average.  He leads all of College Basketball (Divisions, I, II and III) with 14.3 rebounds per game.  Carson is averaging 19.4 points per game, while shooting 61.8 percent (131-for-212) from the field.  Carson leads the team with 1.6 blocks per game, while adding 1.5 steals per contest.  He has 16 double-doubles in 19 games, and has at least 10 rebounds in 18 contests.  He is currently 103 points shy of 1,000 for his career and is second all-time in field goal percentage (.598), third in rebounds (699) and seventh in blocks (84) at RIT.

    Carson is a main reason the Tigers are off to their best ever start in Empire 8 play (11-0).  RIT is 15-4 overall and 11-0 in 2009.

    Title: Tiebreaker
    Post by: RITFAN on February 07, 2009, 02:02:12 PM
    If both RIT and Ithaca go 15-1 (i.e. RIT loses to Ithaca in the final game) gobombers is correct.  If both teams go 14-2 it gets more complicated - first tiebreaker is record vs. subsequest finishers in descending order; next tiebreaker is road record vs. conference opponents.  Third tiebreaker is SOS.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 07, 2009, 06:19:53 PM
    Fisher drops their 4th straight in conference and are now in a three-way tie for third, with Stevens lurking a game behind. Fisher is in a real bad spot, with RIT coming into town next, followed by a trip to Ithaca. If they drop both of those games, it's going to get really interesting. What's going on with the Cardinals?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 08, 2009, 09:21:30 AM
    whats going on with the cardinals is lack of experience, they play with 3 freshman on the court at most times and lost their 4 man for the year and a key resever that was scoring 15-20 pts in some games.  I think they are finally playing what their talent level is vs in the beg of year they were playing a little bit above.  I think they are about where they should be given there team this year and think its going to be tough to get into the e8 tourny now with their 2 games at rit and ithaca coming up.  should be interesting
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 08, 2009, 02:04:24 PM
    Naz over Fisher 79-70. Fisher off from 3, to say the least (2-15, C. Henderson 1-6) while Naz shoots 8-17 from 3 (R. McAdams 5-7). Both teams shoot 27-62 from, Naz outrebounds Fisher 48-28.

    I agree with you, Dynasty, I think Fisher is playing at their talent level now, and are where they were expected to be. Tough stretch for them playing at RIT & IC...It's getting to crunch time, we'll see who steps up and joins RIT & IC in the conference tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 08, 2009, 04:09:11 PM
    Bombers squeak out a thriller against Alfred, 73-71. Saxons shoot 53% from the floor in the 2nd half to almost pull of the upset. Stopera goes for 32 points.

    Ithaca seemed to miss Jeff Bostic as they had no real offense or defense down low. Word is, he'll play on Tuesday. Sean Burton has 28 points and 10 assists.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 08, 2009, 04:19:33 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 08, 2009, 04:09:11 PM
    Bombers squeak out a thriller against Alfred, 73-71. Saxons shoot 53% from the floor in the 2nd half to almost pull of the upset. Stopera goes for 32 points.

    Ithaca seemed to miss Jeff Bostic as they had no real offense or defense down low. Word is, he'll play on Tuesday. Sean Burton has 28 points and 10 assists.

    I think Ithaca believed they could let Bostic rest his ankle this weekend against Hartwick and Alfred. It was a rational decision. Hartwick and Alfred are teams towards the bottom of the league and Ithaca was killing teams in The Bulb. But it almost cost them today. Stopera went to the line with 5 seconds left and Ithaca leading 72-70. He missed the first FT and made the second, but Ithaca held on. Alfred just seems to be a matchup problem for the Bombers. The Saxons played them tough at MacLane, too.

    Huge game for Burton as he goes for 28 pts and 10 assts. His sixth assist of the game gave him 500 for his career. Leahy also has a double-double with 11 pts and 10 rebs. I'm surprised Mullins only played the Brown/Barera combo for a combined 12 minutes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 08, 2009, 04:35:27 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 08, 2009, 04:19:33 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 08, 2009, 04:09:11 PM
    Bombers squeak out a thriller against Alfred, 73-71. Saxons shoot 53% from the floor in the 2nd half to almost pull of the upset. Stopera goes for 32 points.

    Ithaca seemed to miss Jeff Bostic as they had no real offense or defense down low. Word is, he'll play on Tuesday. Sean Burton has 28 points and 10 assists.

    I think Ithaca believed they could let Bostic rest his ankle this weekend against Hartwick and Alfred. It was a rational decision. Hartwick and Alfred are teams towards the bottom of the league and Ithaca was killing teams in The Bulb. But it almost cost them today. Stopera went to the line with 5 seconds left and Ithaca leading 72-70. He missed the first FT and made the second, but Ithaca held on. Alfred just seems to be a matchup problem for the Bombers. The Saxons played them tough at MacLane, too.

    Huge game for Burton as he goes for 28 pts and 10 assts. His sixth assist of the game gave him 500 for his career. Leahy also has a double-double with 11 pts and 10 rebs. I'm surprised Mullins only played the Brown/Barera combo for a combined 12 minutes.

    That was suprising to me too, but Alfred really didn't have a big man so I'm not entirely positive Brown would have helped much. So many of the shots were from the outside by guards and a lot of the rebounds were long. Brown's not going to be a lot of help on the perimeter defensively against smaller, quicker players. Down low, he'll be a presence, but Alfred wasn't really going down there. 

    Ithaca simply missed their shots, plain and simple. They hit five FG's in the first 12 minutes of the 2nd half. It was unlike anything they've done all season. There's always going to be games like that over the course of a season though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 08, 2009, 06:33:49 PM
    I have to say, I'm a little concerned about the Bombers. I know it's strange to be saying that about a 20-1 team, but they've had some games recently where they just haven't looked sharp.

    Against Elmira, Ithaca only up one with about 12 minutes to go in the 2nd half, and against Alfred, they were in a battle all game. I know they were missing Bostic today, and no-one's saying that they need to win every game by 30+ points, but these were two home games against opponents with a combined 3-20 record in conference, and 10-31 overall. They shouldn't be struggling in games like that. They trailed SJF early, but that was a road game and Fisher was 14-4 at the time.

    Tuesday's game against Stevens is looming large. The Ducks need a win to stay in the conference hunt and the Bombers needed a massive comeback to top them earlier. I think a healthy Bostic makes a difference, but Ithaca's going to need to step their game up a bit.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 09, 2009, 09:13:56 AM

    I understand the situation between IC and RIT if they tie for first... Assuming both 15-1, First tie breaker head to head, then record in descending order, then I BELIEVE is road record, then SOS. Which means it come down to SOS. BUT if I am right about the 3rd criteria being Road record, that will come into play big time if there is a log jam for the last 2 spots. Again, I am not sure but I think thta's how IC got the home court last year against Stevens. Bot tied for first and both had the sam records against all in descending order... it came down to road record. 

    Of the 4 teams looking for 2 spots it is amazing whats left.  Utica looks like they are in the best position because they already played IC and RIT twice, BUT they lost all 4.  So if NAZ Stevens or Fisher can pick one off then that hurts Utica. Utica also has 4 out of 5 left on the road.. One at Stevens. Thuis could be a good thing for them since they held homecourt against the Ducks earlier. A loss only ties them on that breaker.  NAZ plays 3 road games out of last 5 and they seem to be hottest of the 4 remaining.. The game at Utica is obviously BIG, Stevens is at IC and RIT this week. If they can pick one off that puts them back in the mix. If they lose both it is going to be tough as that means the best they can do is 8-8 and they have a tough time with the tie breakers. Fisher has 4 at home left which should serve them well. They SOULD beat ALfred and Elmira at home which gives them 8 wins... That makes the UTICA game at home huge.   Utica plays all 3 NAZ STEVENS and Fisher... NAZ at home the other two on the road. They have to beat Alfred and Hartwick both on the road to get to 8, then pick off one of the contenders.   It appears Stevens has the hardest task, while Utica has a slight edge over the other 2....... 9 wins gets 3rd, 8 gets 4th... with te breaker involved.   I don't think more than one of tehse 3 teams can win 9 games. remenber IC and RIT are not going to lie down as every win is important for first place......   A lot of huge games coming up, but what do I know ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 09, 2009, 09:39:38 PM
    Ithaca moves up a notch in D3 Hoops Top 25 checking in at #8. RIT picks up a little more support and comes in at #32 and St. Lawrence gets noticed and checks in tied for the #34 spot. If the Bombers keep winning I can see them possibly getting as high as #6, which would be 1 spot higher than Plattsburgh State managed last year with their 27-2 record heading into the NCAA tournament.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Michigan452 on February 10, 2009, 05:54:05 PM
    A huge game tonight between RIT and Fisher.  This game could make or break Fisher since they have to go to Ithaca this Saturday.  What I dont understand is how RIT is getting no respect nationally.  I dont know if you can call a team underrated when they are undefeated in their conference, but it seems like RIT is.  They really dont have any great players besides Carson, but they keep on winning.  As for Fisher they are realing right now and need to hold court tonight.  If they loose another home game they could be on the outside looking in for the e8 tourney.  I would love to see what their 10 coaches do then.  Maybe they will start playing.  I know some of them still have their eligibility.  Cant wait to see the outcome.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2009, 07:00:35 PM
    E8 Player of the Week: Anthony Passalacqua (Stevens)

    E8 Rookie of the Week: Brendan Harder (RIT)

    Full slate of conference games this evening. Here's my best guess:

    Utica (72) at Hartwick (61)
    Nazareth (75) at Alfred (68)
    Stevens (75) at Ithaca (87)
    RIT (66) at Fisher (62)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 10, 2009, 08:07:10 PM
    Quote from: Michigan452 on February 10, 2009, 05:54:05 PM
    I would love to see what their 10 coaches do then. 

    I will never get tired of jokes about Fisher's ridiculous bench. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 10, 2009, 09:49:51 PM
    St. John Fisher up 33-32 over RIT at the half,  breaks the game wide open with a 23-3 run to open the 2nd period and coasts to a 72-51 win. Much needed win for the Cardinals and could put a stop to all the Ithaca- RIT tiebreaker talk. 

    Fisher was led by Ozell Franklin who topped all scorers with 20 pts along with 7 rebounds. Connor Henderson added 16 pts and Jordan Gettings chipped in with 16. RIT was led by Mark Carson with a double double of 16 pts and 15 boards.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2009, 10:07:28 PM
    Utica nips Hartwick, 63-60.

    Ithaca handles Stevens, 81-68.

    Naz thumps Alfred, 80-68.

    Fisher rips RIT, 72-51

    Quote from: bamm on February 10, 2009, 08:07:10 PM
    Quote from: Michigan452 on February 10, 2009, 05:54:05 PM
    I would love to see what their 10 coaches do then. 

    I will never get tired of jokes about Fisher's ridiculous bench. 

    Or the fact that despite the ridiculous amount of assistants, they have about 6 cheerleaders for every player and assistant.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 10, 2009, 10:08:28 PM
    A HUGE win for Fisher tonight over RIT. Fisher absolutely needed a win to get off the schnide. I was really starting to get worried about the E8 tournament, and they still have lots of work to do, but beating RIT really gives them a leg up on the two other teams pulling for those last two spots.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 10, 2009, 10:34:19 PM
    If Fisher and Utica finished tied at 9-7, tonight's win all but clinches the tiebreaker in Fisher's favor. Either Fisher will have swept Utica or Fisher will win the tiebreaker of record vs top teams in descending order.

    Ithaca clinches an E8 Tourney berth tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 10, 2009, 11:03:51 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 10, 2009, 09:49:51 PM
    St. John Fisher up 33-32 over RIT at the half,  breaks the game wide open with a 23-3 run to open the 2nd period and coasts to a 72-51 win. Much needed win for the Cardinals and could put a stop to all the Ithaca- RIT tiebreaker talk. 

    Fisher was led by Ozell Franklin who topped all scorers with 20 pts along with 7 rebounds. Connor Henderson added 16 pts and Jordan Gettings chipped in with 16. RIT was led by Mark Carson with a double double of 16 pts and 15 boards.

    While it puts an end to the tiebreaker talk, RIT still controls their own destiny for the conference, as a win over Ithaca. In fact, they could lose again and STILL control their own destiny. It does give Ithaca a chance to relax a tad before the RIT game, possibly resting Bostic some more than they would have. Burton drops a pretty quiet 20-5, with nearly half his points coming from the line and four turnovers to go with his assists. But IC's depth is once again the key factor

    I will say, Carson puts up a pretty quiet 16. Eight points from the line and only six shots? That's surprising given that he gathered six offensive rebounds. Maybe SJF tried to hack at him a little bit. Also, RIT's four other starters and their main backup, Lowe, go 6-40 from the floor. That's a rough night

    I also wonder if this just wasn't the other shoe dropping for RIT a little. Not so much the big run in the second half, but just that they've had a big string of close conference wins

    Now to be fair, in four of those 6 games, we would have been looking at OT anyway, but there's been six games they've won in which the other team had a chance to tie or win in the last 10 seconds of a game. Now, they deserve credit for winning some incredibly tight games, and I give them that. But I can't think of another scenario where a team has won that many games that late and not dropped any. The Bombers have won two, one where Stevens missed a tying three with 22 seconds to go, and one where Alfred missed a two-thirds of a court shot at the buzzer, and they lost the RIT game.

    I think RIT is a good, tough, gritty team, that Carson is a monster, and that they stand a decent chance at winning the conference. But I also think that they've played a high number of close conference games, and won them all, and that's unusual for any team. Nonetheless, it should be a great game when they come to Ithaca!

    Stevens is probably done for the conference tourney. Naz is ROLLING again, with six straight conference wins. Who gets the last spot? Here's one man's take:

    Utica: 3 of 4 on road, although they avoid the two best teams in the conference. I think Naz pulls the win out at Utica and SJF holds court. 9-7

    SJF: Get both Alfred and Elmira at home, where they are 4-1 in conference play. I like them to sweep the home games, but lose to Ithaca on the road; no shame there. 10-6 and in

    Naz
    : Get Elmira at home, but RIT is on the road and they have to find a way to stop an Ithaca team that blew them out of the water and scored 122 points in the process. I don't think they do it, and drop that one too. But if they beat Utica, they'd also be 9-7, with a split head-to-head. However, going by the record against opponents, their win over SJF would be the difference.
    So I've got

    1/2 Winner of RIT/IC game
    3. SJF
    4. Naz

    Bit of a change from my last projection, which had Utica in the last spot, but I never though Naz would be in this spot, with wins at Stevens and against SJF. I suppose it could change easily enough if Utica beats Naz again. But I like the Golden Flyers. Just one man's guess though
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 11, 2009, 12:46:36 AM
    With Herrings 24 tonight, I think he only needs 6 more for 1,500 career.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 11, 2009, 07:43:27 AM
    Bombers, you are right on the money, but what do I know..  The biggest game left in the season for a playoff spot is NAZ UC... the winner gets the 4 spot in my mind.... Fisher ends at 9-7 at worst.............. The winner of the Naz UC game is 9-7, the loser is at best 8-8........ Stevens is on life support, they need to run the table to get to 9-7, and lose tie breaker to NAZ, if NAZ is 9-7, they may do well in tie breaker with Fisher, since they have to win 3 road games to get to 9-7, and they have to beat RIT......TOUGH ROAD. I think UC outcoaches NAZ in that game..... 84-81 UC.......Fisher is so tough at home, and Kornaker is not going to let this team not get in... but what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 11, 2009, 11:42:14 AM
    Fisher lead by a soph and two freshman (there best being hurt). This is a very young team which that will be good in the future. but this also shows how bad the region is this year.  a top team in the region getting killed by freshmen and sophmores, that would not happen in a normal year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 11, 2009, 02:38:40 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 11, 2009, 11:42:14 AM
    Fisher lead by a soph and two freshman (there best being hurt). This is a very young team which that will be good in the future. but this also shows how bad the region is this year.  a top team in the region getting killed by freshmen and sophmores, that would not happen in a normal year.

    I think that saying Fisher's win (being led by freshmen and sophomores) over RIT shows how bad the region is this year is a bit of a jump. I don't think it's as strong as it has been, but the game was between two E8 teams. Wouldn't it a more logical conclusion to say that Fisher's win shows how bad the E8 is this year?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 11, 2009, 03:03:21 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on February 11, 2009, 02:38:40 PM
    Wouldn't it a more logical conclusion to say that Fisher's win shows how bad the E8 is this year?

    buck, I thought you were doing real well right up to this sentence.

    Bombers, I think, gives a pretty fair assessment of RIT.  Their young players are a nice surprise and the team can certainly beat anyone in the region, but 11-0 in conference was probably a bit overperforming.

    To try and use last night's game as an explanation for an entire season doesn't work no matter who or what you're talking about.

    Take a shot with "that gym has been a house of horrors for the Tigers over the years" and you'd be getting somewhere. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 11, 2009, 03:09:22 PM
    Quote from: bamm on February 11, 2009, 03:03:21 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on February 11, 2009, 02:38:40 PM
    Wouldn't it a more logical conclusion to say that Fisher's win shows how bad the E8 is this year?

    buck, I thought you were doing real well right up to this sentence.

    Bombers, I think, gives a pretty fair assessment of RIT.  Their young players are a nice surprise and the team can certainly beat anyone in the region, but 11-0 in conference was probably a bit overperforming.

    To try and use last night's game as an explanation for an entire season doesn't work no matter who or what you're talking about.

    Take a shot with "that gym has been a house of horrors for the Tigers over the years" and you'd be getting somewhere. 


    Well, the thing is, I think RIT has overachieved a bit, and so have IC and SJF. That's the toughest thing about the E8 right now. All three of those teams are probably not quite as good as their record indicates.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 11, 2009, 06:18:40 PM
    Not really Buck seeing as how the e8 is stronger than the Sunyac and probably the LL this year from top to bottom. The e8 is down for sure but so arnt all other conferences by a long shot as well besides maybe the LL since it has only had 2 good teams past few years.

    Bombers, I agree with your pt 100%, however, Ithaca beat SLU best team besides maybe hamilton in the LL and sunyac is out of question since utica beat oswego the top team there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 11, 2009, 07:07:14 PM
    I think it's kinda odd that we're discussing a "down year" for the E8 when its top team is ranked #8 in the COUNTRY right now and is an incorrectly ruled shot away from possibly still being undefeated, yet was in 2nd place in its own conference for the last three weeks. I mean, are we going to say that the conference was better top-to-bottom when Fisher was running things for a few years there? No way, not even a comparison. Back then, you only had to worry about the top four teams (Fisher, Utica, Ithaca, RIT) and maybe a road game against Alfred during the Stein/Clemmensen years. That's it. Everything else was tantamount to an automatic win, especially during Naz's rebuilding years.

    Now, there is much more parity. Even the bottom-feeders (Elmira, Alfred, Hartwick) have a pulse, a far cry from the days when Elmira and Hartwick would only win when they played each other. Utica, Fisher and Naz are no worse than those inconsistent Ithaca and RIT squads who would round out the E8 Tourney. And now, unlike before, there is some real competition for those last two E8 Tourney spots. In the past, we knew who the four teams would be for awhile leading into the Tourney.

    If you want to argue that this Ithaca team isn't as good as those powerful Fisher teams, maybe that's true and maybe its not, but I'm not going to spend pages arguing that. And I'm not going to haggle over this year's RIT team versus those Utica teams. If you want to say the spread between the top of the conference and middle of the conference is narrower than in the past, fine. Just don't confuse greater parity with mediocrity. And don't tell me that, overall, this year's league is down relative to past years. It's not even close.

    (And if you want to get into a numerical argument, I'll more than oblige. I decided to save you all the time. But if we want to go there, we can.)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: RITFAN on February 11, 2009, 08:17:45 PM
    I cannot speak to Empire 8 teams of yore.  However I do know the this year's E8 has the NATION'S leading rebounder (Carson) and 2 Academic All-District First Team Members (Bostic and Carson).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 11, 2009, 08:56:36 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 11, 2009, 07:07:14 PM
    I think it's kinda odd that we're discussing a "down year" for the E8 when its top team is ranked #8 in the COUNTRY right now and is an incorrectly ruled shot away from possibly still being undefeated, yet was in 2nd place in its own conference for the last three weeks. I mean, are we going to say that the conference was better top-to-bottom when Fisher was running things for a few years there? No way, not even a comparison. Back then, you only had to worry about the top four teams (Fisher, Utica, Ithaca, RIT) and maybe a road game against Alfred during the Stein/Clemmensen years. That's it. Everything else was tantamount to an automatic win, especially during Naz's rebuilding years.

    Now, there is much more parity. Even the bottom-feeders (Elmira, Alfred, Hartwick) have a pulse, a far cry from the days when Elmira and Hartwick would only win when they played each other. Utica, Fisher and Naz are no worse than those inconsistent Ithaca and RIT squads who would round out the E8 Tourney. And now, unlike before, there is some real competition for those last two E8 Tourney spots. In the past, we knew who the four teams would be for awhile leading into the Tourney.

    If you want to argue that this Ithaca team isn't as good as those powerful Fisher teams, maybe that's true and maybe its not, but I'm not going to spend pages arguing that. And I'm not going to haggle over this year's RIT team versus those Utica teams. If you want to say the spread between the top of the conference and middle of the conference is narrower than in the past, fine. Just don't confuse greater parity with mediocrity. And don't tell me that, overall, this year's league is down relative to past years. It's not even close.

    (And if you want to get into a numerical argument, I'll more than oblige. I decided to save you all the time. But if we want to go there, we can.)

    Well, I sort of disagree on part of it my friend. I love numbers, so I'll go there :)

    Hartwick, Elmira and Alfred are 2-28 in conference play when not playing one another. They've played tough in certain games--heck, Alfred almost beat IC on the road this weekend, but that's still a pretty cruddy record any way you slice it. Maybe teams can't sleepwalk through games anymore, but they're not coming through with victories, so to me, the bottom of the conference isn't real strong.

    As for the top...

    I posted my thoughts on RIT before. I'm not sure they're an elite level team. That 11-0 record in conference seems to be a little smoke and mirrors to me. Too many games won in the final seconds with no losses.

    As for IC, they're very good, but I don't think they're one of the eight best teams in D-III, which is what their record and ranking indicate.  As you said, they could very easily be undefeated if the call in the RIT is made correctly, and that would put them where? 5th? Are they THAT good?

    To me, there are two things they do at an elite level: Free throw shooting and holding onto the ball. They score a ton, but I think that's a reflection of their overall pace and ability to not turn it over

    IC Rankings

    Rebounding Margin: 76th
    Shooting Percentage: 136th
    3 point percentage: 164th
    Shooting percentage defense: 224th
    Scoring defense: 267th
    3 point percentage defense: 371st

    Again, I think IC is a very good team, but I think it's a little strange that for a team that scores so much, they don't shoot particularly well, and frankly, their defense isn't all that great. Some of that scoring defense can be chalked up to replacements being in the game, but the percentages are still pretty low. Obviously, they're a very talented team, especially a guy like Burton. They'll make the NCAA's, and probably win a game or two. I always feel teams in the Top 10 are teams in contention for a NC, and I can't really say that about this team.

    I think your assessment of the middle of the pack is correct. Utica, SJF, Stevens and Naz are all inconsistent, and not really any different from many other teams we've seen throughout the years. But I don't think there's a lot of strength at the bottom of the conference, and I think the top teams are overachieving a bit.

    Also, regarding that "Nation's leading" rebounder, I remember when Stephanie Cleary of IC had more steals than anyone else in all of college basketball, men included. I'm not sure what that really signified then, and I don't know what Carson's stat signifies now. Is it saying Carson is the "best" rebounder in the country? Grotberg leads the NCAA in scoring, but he's not the best scorer in the country. You can't just compare numbers across divisions without any context. Stick someone like Blake Griffin or Curry in D3 and they'd top those numbers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 11, 2009, 09:03:43 PM
    I hear your point gobombers for sure. I guess its down bc the 2-8 teams are worst then then 2-4 teams back then.  Nothing against ithaca they cant help it. It is just my opinion.  I think Ithaca, UofR, and possibly Hamilton/SLU are the only teams that can do damage in the ncaa tourny.  I think Ithaca out of the e8 has the best shot and will be routing for them.  It just seems like such an off year with all of the losses and reading post from all the leagues on how down they are this year. Your typical year in and year out teams (Potsdam, Platts, Uofr, Fisher, NYU, can even put RIT in there) of the region lost a lot of talent all at the same time and are in rebuilding years.  Hamilton and SLU are around where they usually are.  The other teams who I thought were going to be good Oswego, Geneseo, Naz all are down vs expectations. Really the only team that held up to them is Ithaca. 

    Theres no question theres more parity 1-9 in the e8 but that doesnt necessarily make it a better league overall.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 11, 2009, 11:02:48 PM
    Bombers, re: bottom of the conference, the underlying point is that those bottom teams are still very competitive relative to those years when Fisher was dominating. While I'm aware that there are no moral victories, I can say with utter certainty, and without looking, that a few years ago those teams couldn't even sniff the top two or three teams. Now, Alfred can challenge Ithaca and Hartwick can beat Fisher. There are other examples, too.

    Overall, I don't think the conference is "down." The top may not be as strong, but the middle and bottom are better, in my opinion. That's what parity does. I like not knowing who will win an Alfred/Fisher game. That just wouldn't happen those other years.

    Ithaca may not be great statistically, but they win and usually do so by a lot of points. Picking them apart kinda seems like everyone nitpicking Memphis in past years. Everyone said Memphis didn't shoot the 3 well enough, or didn't shoot FT's well enough, etc. But what they did do was beat teams to a pulp...somehow. And they were a miraculous shot by Chalmers away from winning the National Championship. I don't think Ithaca has the same talent level, obviously, but the point is that you don't have to be well-rounded or good at everything, just be very good at one or two things. Ithaca is great at the line, an underappreciated trait in modern basketball (ask 'Cuse) and has that uncanny intangible ability to kick it up a gear when they have to. I think the Sweet 16 is very possible and that's exactly where the undefeated Fisher team ended up, too.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 11, 2009, 11:55:09 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 11, 2009, 11:02:48 PM
    Bombers, re: bottom of the conference, the underlying point is that those bottom teams are still very competitive relative to those years when Fisher was dominating. While I'm aware that there are no moral victories, I can say with utter certainty, and without looking, that a few years ago those teams couldn't even sniff the top two or three teams. Now, Alfred can challenge Ithaca and Hartwick can beat Fisher. There are other examples, too.

    Overall, I don't think the conference is "down." The top may not be as strong, but the middle and bottom are better, in my opinion. That's what parity does. I like not knowing who will win an Alfred/Fisher game. That just wouldn't happen those other years.

    Ithaca may not be great statistically, but they win and usually do so by a lot of points. Picking them apart kinda seems like everyone nitpicking Memphis in past years. Everyone said Memphis didn't shoot the 3 well enough, or didn't shoot FT's well enough, etc. But what they did do was beat teams to a pulp...somehow. And they were a miraculous shot by Chalmers away from winning the National Championship. I don't think Ithaca has the same talent level, obviously, but the point is that you don't have to be well-rounded or good at everything, just be very good at one or two things. Ithaca is great at the line, an underappreciated trait in modern basketball (ask 'Cuse) and has that uncanny intangible ability to kick it up a gear when they have to. I think the Sweet 16 is very possible and that's exactly where the undefeated Fisher team ended up, too.

    I agree that they don't need to do "everything" well, but I would consider shooting, defense and rebounding to be three pretty key areas to not stand out in. Do they need to excel at all three? Of course not. But they don't excel at any of them. Free throws are a great thing to be able to hit, and you're right that they are underrated, but you have to get to the line, and there's no guarantee you're going to be able to do that every game.

    Actually, I think you sort of made my point for me. This IC team is a blown call away from being undefeated and you call the Sweet 16 "very possible." Normally, I'd think that a team that frankly, has a pretty good chance of being 26-1 heading into the NCAA's, would be able to aspire to something beyond a "possible" Sweet 16 berth. But I agree with that. I think that's more a reflection of where they lie. Somewhere in that 12-18 range. In a weird way, I think it may help them to lose a game. I worry that if they go 26-1 heading into the tournament that they'll move up another couple of spots and be at about 5, and when you get that high, the fan expectation gets to where you expect them to be in say the Final Four. And that's a lot of pressure to put on a group of kids.

    Look, I'm an Ithaca fan, but I loath homers, so part of what I try to do is see things from the other side of the fence. There's really no comparison for us to go on with this team. They're the best team in school history, and that's saying something given that we still have three games to go in the regular season. But they haven't won an NCAA playoff game in something like 15 years. I think in some ways, you have to fight against your own history a bit. That's sort of the standard I'm holding the team to. I want to be proven wrong of course. I'm all for a deep NCAA run, don't get me wrong. It just takes one game at a time to convince me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 12, 2009, 07:49:06 AM
    Looking at the conference teams individually, and at the cost of sounding obvious, IC, RIT and UC as having an UP year. Fisher in the mix even though young, so I will say overachieving based on expectations (mine) NAZ is a little down although coming around, I think.  Alfred definitely overachieving a bit, based on expectations. Hartwick and Elmira are about the same as they have been the last few years, and Stevens is definitley down after losing Waleed, and Greco from the sweet 16 team, and Williams from the ECAC team.  In comparing to E 8 League from years past, throw out Stevens, since no history there. Look at the top 4.. IC, RIT, UC and Fisher, forget the order... has anything really changed???? With regard to the region, I think that's where parody comes into play. All the top teams in the region can be beaten by teams not considered high quality teams.  So I guess what I am saying is, I don't think the E-8 is down this year, instead of Fisher being our resident NCAA team IC is and the rest are looking for a shot to pick them off in the E 8 tourney so they can go to the dance.. I do think there is more parody region wise however which will always bring the perception of strength down, for some reason. Numbers are a crutch most times. You can be the highest scoring team in the nation but if you are the worst defensivley what does the scoring mean, Ask Loyola Marymount back in the Hank Gathers days.  The only number that reallly means anything is w's.......  no matter how you get it done.......BUT what do I know ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 12, 2009, 08:16:53 AM
    Quote from: bamm on February 11, 2009, 03:03:21 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on February 11, 2009, 02:38:40 PM
    Wouldn't it a more logical conclusion to say that Fisher's win shows how bad the E8 is this year?

    buck, I thought you were doing real well right up to this sentence.

    Bombers, I think, gives a pretty fair assessment of RIT.  Their young players are a nice surprise and the team can certainly beat anyone in the region, but 11-0 in conference was probably a bit overperforming.

    To try and use last night's game as an explanation for an entire season doesn't work no matter who or what you're talking about.

    Take a shot with "that gym has been a house of horrors for the Tigers over the years" and you'd be getting somewhere. 


    bamm,
    My post was more to point out the illogical jump made that the region is bad when one team featuring freshmen and sophomores beat another more veteran team. Since they are from the same league, I don't see how that speaks to the whole region. My point -- in that last sentence -- was only that if you are deriving a conclusion from that game, it would be more logical to draw one about the E8 as opposed to the whole region.

    For the record, the E8 is definitely better this year than the LL and SUNYAC.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 12, 2009, 10:19:23 AM
    I think Ithaca has a very good chance to make it to the sweet 16, i think they will even host until the final 4 if they make it that far.   But I can't change my mind on the overall region being down.  Look at the top 8 in our polls,

    East Region Fan Poll #7 (through 2/8/09)

    1   Ithaca ( 10 )    20-1           Normal #1 team
    2   St. Lawrence   16-4           Sold #2
    3   RIT                   16-4           Now has 5 losses and overall is down from past years in my opinion talent
    4   Rochester           15-5           Down from past years
    5   Hamilton           14-5           This could be standard #5 so same
    6   Geneseo State   14-6           Solid (2 top sunyac teams WAY down from past years
    7   Oswego State   13-7           Solid (some bad losses though)
    8   St. John Fisher   14-6           Down from past years

    No NYU which is usually up there as well. Point being besides ithaca and the LL teams, the other 5 spots are much weaker than in normal years.  the #2 team in the e8 is much worse than both #2 and 3 maybe even 4 teams in past years.    LL has 2 solid teams as usual so ill say the same.  Sunyac is WAY DOWN, the best team this year would probably be #3 or #4 in typical years.  and UAA teams of UofR and NYU are dwn vs prior years.  Therefore overall the REGION is weaker. I agree with you Buck that e8 is better than LL and sunyac this year and the uaa team in the region as proven during interconf games and overall records.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 12, 2009, 11:09:53 AM
    I have to agree with Fisher on this one.  If you look at the national scene and think back to recent years, you were looking at at least 3 teams from the region being top 25 or close for a majority of the season.  I can remember when seeing Fisher, Rochester, NYU in the top 25 or at worst tops of "Others receiving Votes" was standard.  And though the records of some of these teams look nice, I think if you were to take any of these teams and book them with Old Fisher, Rochester from either the Hauben days or the past 3 seasons, and the Boone/DeCorso NYU teams, only Ithaca would remain in that top hunt.  The 2008-2009 versions of St. Lawrence, RIT, Rochester, and Hamilton would all be looking at 20+ point losses.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 12, 2009, 11:15:09 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 12, 2009, 10:19:23 AM
    I think Ithaca has a very good chance to make it to the sweet 16, i think they will even host until the final 4 if they make it that far.   But I can't change my mind on the overall region being down.  Look at the top 8 in our polls,

    East Region Fan Poll #7 (through 2/8/09)

    1   Ithaca ( 10 )    20-1           Normal #1 team
    2   St. Lawrence   16-4           Sold #2
    3   RIT                   16-4           Now has 5 losses and overall is down from past years in my opinion talent
    4   Rochester           15-5           Down from past years
    5   Hamilton           14-5           This could be standard #5 so same
    6   Geneseo State   14-6           Solid (2 top sunyac teams WAY down from past years
    7   Oswego State   13-7           Solid (some bad losses though)
    8   St. John Fisher   14-6           Down from past years

    No NYU which is usually up there as well. Point being besides ithaca and the LL teams, the other 5 spots are much weaker than in normal years.  the #2 team in the e8 is much worse than both #2 and 3 maybe even 4 teams in past years.    LL has 2 solid teams as usual so ill say the same.  Sunyac is WAY DOWN, the best team this year would probably be #3 or #4 in typical years.  and UAA teams of UofR and NYU are dwn vs prior years.  Therefore overall the REGION is weaker. I agree with you Buck that e8 is better than LL and sunyac this year and the uaa team in the region as proven during interconf games and overall records.


    Two quick things.  Hamilton has been HAMMERED by every good team they have played this year.  Anderson was smart to schedule his tough games out of region so they don't have an impact on their regional standing, but I'm not convinced Hamilton is that good of a team.  Second, if UR wins both games this weekend they will have exactly the same record as last year.  Will they do it?  Hope so but it won't be easy.  Like Fisher, UR is very young and injured.  Obviously not the same caliber team, but they are getting the job done.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 12, 2009, 11:42:52 AM
    Nobody is making the argument that the East Region is not down this year. It's down because of the conspicuous absence of any SUNYAC powerhouse when, in recent years, that conference has had some excellent teams in Plattsburgh, Brockport and Potsdam. Also, Hamilton is "down" relative to the middle years of this decade, but I wouldn't sell short St. Lawrence.

    FD, where I am going to disagree with you is that the conference is "down" this year. As I've said before, I think you're confusing a narrowing of the gap between the top and bottom teams with the conference somehow not being as good. I don't know how you can definitively say that those Utica teams were better than this RIT team, especially given that those Utica teams would always split with .500 RIT teams. RIT has a good shot at going 15-1 or 14-2 in the conference this year; Utica was never better than 11-3 in the conference. Sure, Utica had Cichon and Bryant, but Carson isn't exactly puppy chow out there (and imagine what his numbers could be if he was given three more years to get stronger/faster and play against this competition at age 25 and 26 like Bryant did).  Again, I don't want to get into a comparison of 2006 Utica vs 2009 RIT because I think it's a fruitless endeavor that will lead to much animosity and no answers. But I'm just not buying what you're selling, namely that the conference is going through a "down year" this season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 12, 2009, 12:02:15 PM
    Dynasty, I admit I am not as well educated on the other conferences as you guys, but just because the records are not as dominant couldn't that be because of parody.... If everyone is a little better they will beat each other. Look at the Big East..... Probably best D 1 conference in country...Teams with 5 - 6 even 7 losses are good, but there certainly is Parody and as someone said earlier it's like when Alfred plays IC we are not so sure who will win, that doesn't make IC weak in my mind...It just means the teams with lesser records MAY not bethat bad....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 12, 2009, 12:12:01 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 12, 2009, 11:42:52 AM
    Nobody is making the argument that the East Region is not down this year. It's down because of the conspicuous absence of any SUNYAC powerhouse when, in recent years, that conference has had some excellent teams in Plattsburgh, Brockport and Potsdam. Also, Hamilton is "down" relative to the middle years of this decade, but I wouldn't sell short St. Lawrence.

    FD, where I am going to disagree with you is that the conference is "down" this year. As I've said before, I think you're confusing a narrowing of the gap between the top and bottom teams with the conference somehow not being as good. I don't know how you can definitively say that those Utica teams were better than this RIT team, especially given that those Utica teams would always split with .500 RIT teams. RIT has a good shot at going 15-1 or 14-2 in the conference this year; Utica was never better than 11-3 in the conference. Sure, Utica had Cichon and Bryant, but Carson isn't exactly puppy chow out there (and imagine what his numbers could be if he was given three more years to get stronger/faster and play against this competition at age 25 and 26 like Bryant did).  Again, I don't want to get into a comparison of 2006 Utica vs 2009 RIT because I think it's a fruitless endeavor that will lead to much animosity and no answers. But I'm just not buying what you're selling, namely that the conference is going through a "down year" this season.

    I don't know how old Carson is but he looks 32.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 12, 2009, 01:01:46 PM
    Great points Ethelred and Cyclone.  Gobombers, I definately here your point I guess we just have different views. In my opinion when judging a conference as good, you judge based on how good the top teams are vs the other leagues.  Does a conference with 1 good team and 8 just above par teams look better or a conference with 3-4 good teams, 2 par teams, and 3-4 crappy? The top teams are the ones that make the noise in the ncaa and out of region and give the leagues credibility not all of the parity at the mediocre level. 

    I would agree with you if you were talking about parity between really good teams like the UW league but thats not the case here.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 12, 2009, 01:32:11 PM
    Ahh Fisher, I think you just articulated what I was thinking.  To expound (at the expense of maybe sounding repetitive), parity in the Big East is a good argument because Uconn, Louisville, Pitt are elite level teams, but Cuse, Marquette, Nova are all also very good teams.  And then the next group of Notre Dame, Cincy, Seton Hall, etc. are all dangerous teams that have quality wins and have all at some point looked like tournament teams.


    In the E8, we've got a "Uconn" in Ithaca, but that's it.  The narrowing of the top and bottom in the e8 is a sign that the conference is down, because the bottom of the e8 is still not good.  The e8 is more like a Conference USA where you've got Memphis, maybe one surprise team, and then a bunch of teams that beat up on each other but all would be pounded in good conferences.


    Even looking at the conference parity ratings, the E8 conference is ranked relatively high thanks to the performance of Ithaca, but they have one of the worst parity ratings of any of the conferences ranked in the top 20 [a rating based on scoring the teams comparatively based on head to heads, and how good the teams really are].
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 12, 2009, 02:07:36 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 12, 2009, 01:01:46 PM
    Great points Ethelred and Cyclone.  Gobombers, I definately here your point I guess we just have different views. In my opinion when judging a conference as good, you judge based on how good the top teams are vs the other leagues.  Does a conference with 1 good team and 8 just above par teams look better or a conference with 3-4 good teams, 2 par teams, and 3-4 crappy? The top teams are the ones that make the noise in the ncaa and out of region and give the leagues credibility not all of the parity at the mediocre level. 

    I would agree with you if you were talking about parity between really good teams like the UW league but thats not the case here.

    But when talking about the conference, as a whole, you do have to look at all teams, not just the top teams. I think the 2006 Fisher team probably beats this Ithaca team 6 of 10 games but, if you go down the line, more times than not, this year's clubs are better than the corresponding teams from those years, IMO. I agree that we'll just have to leave it at a minor disagreement.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 12, 2009, 02:19:27 PM
    OK Cyclone, I'll buy the Conference USA comparison, but the difference is no one walks into an Alfred game feeling like it's a walk in the park. So the bottom OR close to it presents a problem. That wasn't so the last few years. Those bottom 3 were gimme's. Hartwick as well is not a real easy out.... BUT I don't want beat a dead horse. The only way the E-8 gets 2 in is if IC loses the E 8 Tourney. That can happen. I think my guys lose at least 2 of the last 4 games.  Weekend predictions.......

    RIT- 69
    Stevens- 64

    Naz- 85
    Utica- 75

    IC- 74
    Fisher- 58

    RIT- 78
    Hartwick-63

    Stevens- 74
    Utica- 68

    But what do I know ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 12, 2009, 08:30:47 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 12, 2009, 02:19:27 PM
    OK Cyclone, I'll buy the Conference USA comparison, but the difference is no one walks into an Alfred game feeling like it's a walk in the park. So the bottom OR close to it presents a problem. That wasn't so the last few years. Those bottom 3 were gimme's. Hartwick as well is not a real easy out.... BUT I don't want beat a dead horse. The only way the E-8 gets 2 in is if IC loses the E 8 Tourney. That can happen. I think my guys lose at least 2 of the last 4 games.  Weekend predictions.......

    RIT- 69
    Stevens- 64

    Naz- 85
    Utica- 75

    IC- 74
    Fisher- 58

    RIT- 78
    Hartwick-63

    Stevens- 74
    Utica- 68

    But what do I know ;)     


    Doug Herring's senior night and only a few points away from 1500. There is no way Naz wins by 10. UC beat them at their place by 12.

    I have to disagree with that one.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 12, 2009, 08:39:26 PM
    gobombers,

    I agree that there is more parity top to bottom in the conference this year. I just think that it is because there isn't as big as a gap talent wise between the top teams and the bottom as the top and middle teams are not as talented as the top teams were in the past. I wouldnt call it a down year for the conference either.

    Not only did that Utica team have Cichon (1500 career) and Bryant (with 4 years may have had 2000 and 1000), they had Herring who ended up being a 1500 point scorer and Lucas (1000), who easily would have reached 1500 if he had not missed a season and a half of ball. They had Lighthall who is the all time leader in FG% in the conference, and a lineup of backups that would compete in this years league with Munch, Collier, Bitetto, Brown, and Fleming. You cited their record in conference, but don't forget, 3 of their 4 conference losses were to Fisher, and 4 of their 7 total. So I have to disagree with that part of your post. The RIT team this year does not have anywhere near the talent that team had. I honestly think the Ithaca teams of that time were better than this RIT team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: RITFAN on February 12, 2009, 10:19:09 PM
    Bombers798etc...

    If you had read closely, you would have noticed that what I posted was that Carson was the nation's leading rebounder, not the "best" rebounder.  Of course, there are DI (and likely D2 players) who would have better stats if they were playing D3.

    I think any knowlegable basketball person would be embarassed by your attempt to claim steals per game in women's basketball is comparable to rebounds per game in men's basketball.  Without even getting into the differences between the women's and men's game, and the inherent difference between steals and rebounds, just the fact that steals happen less frequently in a game gives that statistic an increased degree of randomness.  However, I congratulate the Ithaca woman who lead the nation.  She should be quite proud of that accomplishment. I suspect she would also say it is ludicrous to try to compare that stat to men's rebounds.  By the way, at the end of the season carson will most likely hold the all-time E8 records for total, offensive and defensive rebounds per season.  If the season ended today he would break each of these records by > 1 rpg. 

    I'm sure if he were an Ithaca player you would also be comparing this accomplishment to women's steals, because you claim to loath "homers".

    By the way, if the buzzer-beater at RIT was disallowed, the game would have went into OT.  Since you are not a "homer", I'm surprised you are just assuming Ithaca would have won.

    Cheers!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 13, 2009, 12:07:43 AM
    Quote from: RITFAN on February 12, 2009, 10:19:09 PM
    Bombers798etc...

    If you had read closely, you would have noticed that what I posted was that Carson was the nation's leading rebounder, not the "best" rebounder.  Of course, there are DI (and likely D2 players) who would have better stats if they were playing D3.

    I think any knowlegable basketball person would be embarassed by your attempt to claim steals per game in women's basketball is comparable to rebounds per game in men's basketball.  Without even getting into the differences between the women's and men's game, and the inherent difference between steals and rebounds, just the fact that steals happen less frequently in a game gives that statistic an increased degree of randomness.  However, I congratulate the Ithaca woman who lead the nation.  She should be quite proud of that accomplishment. I suspect she would also say it is ludicrous to try to compare that stat to men's rebounds.  By the way, at the end of the season carson will most likely hold the all-time E8 records for total, offensive and defensive rebounds per season.  If the season ended today he would break each of these records by > 1 rpg. 

    I'm sure if he were an Ithaca player you would also be comparing this accomplishment to women's steals, because you claim to loath "homers".

    By the way, if the buzzer-beater at RIT was disallowed, the game would have went into OT.  Since you are not a "homer", I'm surprised you are just assuming Ithaca would have won.

    Cheers!

    RITFAN (Or Carson fan, whichever you prefer)

    If you'd like to re-read my post a little closer you'll see a few things

    1) I never compared women's steals to men's rebounds. I was simply using it as example to say that it's not any more of a big deal, in my opinion, for a D-III player to lead the nation in a category, than  just leading Division III in a category. The Cleary steals situation I mentioned was brought up because I worked for ICB radio at the time, and tried to avoid mentioning the fact on the air not because it wasn't that it wasn't something to be proud of, but because I saw it as irrelevant. As you say,Division III is a different game so taking any numbers out of D-III and stacking them to D-I is really comparing apples to oranges. That's the point I was trying to make. Where you made the conclusion that I was comparing steals and rebounds as equal statistics is beyond me

    2) And if it were Jeff Bostic, yes, I would consider it to be just as pointless.

    3) It was also not a shot at Carson, which, judging by your e-mail address, you might have thought it was. I've said numerous times I think Carson is a beast inside and that he will win Conference POY if RIT beats Ithaca on the 22nd. I've got nothing but respect for the guy. He's a great player, and you can look at the 16-23 he put up compared to Bostic's 7-12 and see that IC's really not going to be able to shut him down. The best they can do is contain him, and make someone else beat them, like Lowe or Sweet. I have no doubt he'll have a strong game, and no doubt RIT will play well 

    4) Yes, the IC game would have gone into overtime. I should have mentioned that, although if you've been following the boards, I have said that numerous times in other posts. I don't think Ithaca would have "automatically" won. I think Ithaca would have won however, but there's a reason for that beyond being a "homer." Ithaca was playing better at the time of the shot.

    RIT took a 77-67 lead with 3:07 to go. From that point to Korinchak's shot, they were outscored 17-7, and were completely incapable of stopping the Bombers best player, Sean Burton, who scored 11 points, and assisted on the other two baskets. Certainly, RIT could have won the game in overtime, but that's a matter of debate. A team allowing 17 points in three minutes on their home court is not having a good stretch, and I believe it would have carried over. To me, RIT seemed tense, which might have explained the 0-2 from the floor and the five missed free throws in that stretch.

    5) Personally, I've got no problem if RIT wins the conference tournament and makes the NCAA's, because it simply makes the Empire 8 look stronger. Ithaca will be in the NCAA's even if they don't win it, so if the Tigers take it, it's good for the conference as a whole.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 13, 2009, 07:09:22 AM
    Hey, UCGRAD you should be thrilled I picked NAZ over UC....... With my track record, UC should be a lock in that game....I understand senior night and Herring and all the regalia that goes along with it, but this UC team seems like the type that can be distracted. They shouldn't be, because I believe the winner of this game gets into the e-8 tourney. If they stay focused and Herring just lets it come to him, (which he is not known for) they may be OK.  NAZ is ina bit of a groove right now, and despite the lack of defense they can pull this off........Let me also say this, I think my Tigers can be in a bit  trouble as well. I truly see a slump or lack of intensity lately, and I think they end up with at least 2 loses in the last 4 maybe even 3. I don't think the IC game at the end of the season, will be meaningful as far as E-8 homecourt.......I truly believe that, I'm not trying to underplay my team in hopes I'm wrong.... Carson has to show me some leadership down the stretch, which he can do... These other guys may be feeling some pressure right now, and don't know how to handle. The tell tale will be the Stevens game tonight. They really should handle this bunch without too much difficulty, but if Stevens can make it a game, or keep it close late, then the Tigers have to show they can close it out, as opposed to what they did in the IC game, even though they got a break late.... That's not happening again. BUT what do I know ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 13, 2009, 08:07:02 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 13, 2009, 07:09:22 AM
    Hey, UCGRAD you should be thrilled I picked NAZ over UC....... With my track record, UC should be a lock in that game....I understand senior night and Herring and all the regalia that goes along with it, but this UC team seems like the type that can be distracted. They shouldn't be, because I believe the winner of this game gets into the e-8 tourney. If they stay focused and Herring just lets it come to him, (which he is not known for) they may be OK.  NAZ is ina bit of a groove right now, and despite the lack of defense they can pull this off........Let me also say this, I think my Tigers can be in a bit  trouble as well. I truly see a slump or lack of intensity lately, and I think they end up with at least 2 loses in the last 4 maybe even 3. I don't think the IC game at the end of the season, will be meaningful as far as E-8 homecourt.......I truly believe that, I'm not trying to underplay my team in hopes I'm wrong.... Carson has to show me some leadership down the stretch, which he can do... These other guys may be feeling some pressure right now, and don't know how to handle. The tell tale will be the Stevens game tonight. They really should handle this bunch without too much difficulty, but if Stevens can make it a game, or keep it close late, then the Tigers have to show they can close it out, as opposed to what they did in the IC game, even though they got a break late.... That's not happening again. BUT what do I know ;)     

    Ahh, now I get the way you close your posts! Doug is averaging 19.75 points, 7 rebounds and 4.5 assists over the last 4 games. I think he will do fine.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 13, 2009, 09:04:05 AM
    I have to agree with UCgrad on this one, I think Utica beats naz by 5-10.  1) Naz sucks on the road, 2) Utica is playing really good right now, 3) Utica is a tough place to play and a tough trip to make. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 13, 2009, 10:14:09 AM
    I never thought I would have an AX to grind in a UC NAZ game. Go NAZ.... Now watch NAZ wins and makes E 8 tourney plays RIT and wins...... that would be my luck..........  I wish Doug all the best, with all the hoopla however there can be distractions and he haas looked distracted at times this year. IF he plays within himself and the system they have, he should get his 18-20 points.... be careful in this one.... the mcAdams have been hot as well, if they stay hot they e can outscore this bunch...BUT What do I know ;)iob
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 13, 2009, 10:23:55 AM
    I hope Naz doesnt win or make the e8 tourny since they were out quick in the tourny last year, come tournyy team you have to play defense which they don't.  You also have to have 5 good players not just 3.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 13, 2009, 10:49:32 AM
    FisherD, UC plays NAZ, Stevens and Fisher...... If UC gets in they deserve to. Don't sell NAZ short guys.....I know about the D but for some reason they always scare me... maybe the way they play so loose, I don't know...but they are tough to stop, and if you are not on........ tough to outscore......
    I can't believe I am defending NAZ :-[   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on February 13, 2009, 02:29:36 PM
    My picks:

    Friday:
          Utica beats Naz
          RIT over Stevens
          Elmira tops Alfred
     
    Saturday:
          Ithaca over Fisher

    Sunday:
          Stevens beats Utica
           RIT tops Hartwick
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 13, 2009, 08:43:00 PM
    Utica and Nazareth in an old-fashioned shootout, 47-46 Pioneers at the break. Naz looks like they're up to their old "Defense optional" strategy.

    Nine different Utica players have scored, led by Patterson and Goodman with 11 and 10.

    Naz is led by Corey and Ryan McAdam with 16 and 11.

    RIT struggling with Stevens, up by one 30-29. Carson has 10-6 and Harper with 8. Virgil has 12 for stevens...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 13, 2009, 09:42:10 PM
    Utica over Naz 92-86. Good win for the Pioneers. Pat Goodman with 24, James Patterson with 19 and Doug Herring with 17. That was an important game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 13, 2009, 09:44:57 PM
    RIT pulls away from Stevens and Utica holds off Naz.

    This kind of game must be infuriating for Naz fans. Closest thing to a playoff game they'll have this season and they let Utica shoot 53% from the floor and allow 92 points. Every time Utica needed a basket they got it.

    Goodman leads with 24. C. McAdam goes for 28 for Naz. Naz goes 17-27 from the line and Utica is a near perfect 15-16. Boy, Naz must be kicking themselves for leaving those points on the board
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on February 14, 2009, 12:57:21 PM
    17-27 from the line and 3 for 16 from three. Not gonna win playoff type games with those numbers. Cant put this one on Daley.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 14, 2009, 01:07:35 PM
    UCGRAD and Fisher D you were right about the UC NAZ game and I was wrong... don't feel special, that happens a lot to me...  I was very close on the Stevens RIT game.  That now makes it a 3 team race for the 3-4 spots and NAZ is barely breathing.   Looks like IC... RIT... UC...Fisher in that order...to me. Tigers did what they had to and bench steeped up when they needed to. Stevens is horrific from foul line, and 19 turnovers. It's sad to watch his team try to play without a guy they can trust with the ball in their hands. In fairness they have played all year without a true point guard and were very young down low...They are also not deep......... so to be in the race this long was pretty good I guess.  Tigers impressed me last night. Carson did what Carson does, but as I stated they needed to close the game out if the outcome was still in the balance late and they did that.  I'm a little pumped about our chances to make that last game meaningful, but senior night at IC with the seniors they have graduating......It will take a miracle.....and yes UCGRAD now you know what I mean when I say BUT what do I know ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 14, 2009, 02:29:35 PM
    Quote from: NaztyNate on February 14, 2009, 12:57:21 PM
    17-27 from the line and 3 for 16 from three. Not gonna win playoff type games with those numbers. Cant put this one on Daley.

    Sure you can. What team allows 92 points in a must-win game? One that has an aversion to defense. And that starts with coaching.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 14, 2009, 03:13:13 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 14, 2009, 02:29:35 PM
    Quote from: NaztyNate on February 14, 2009, 12:57:21 PM
    17-27 from the line and 3 for 16 from three. Not gonna win playoff type games with those numbers. Cant put this one on Daley.

    Sure you can. What team allows 92 points in a must-win game? One that has an aversion to defense. And that starts with coaching.

    Is it his "style" to try to score more than the other team without worrying too much about stopping them a la Grinnell, Loyola Marymount, etc.?  Or does he not teach or recruit defense?

    One of the many colleges I attended, Troy St University in Alabama, was a DII power back in the 80's.  Their philosophy was to give you as many points as you could score and still score more.  They gave up 156 in one game.  Which was pretty bad, but since they scored 253, well...it worked out OK for them.  If I remember they made a 3 pointer every 9 seconds or something sick like that.  They lost to Bridgeport in the finals after scoring 120+ the night before in the semi's.  No gas in the tank.  Always got your money's worth when you went to a TSU game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 14, 2009, 03:22:00 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 14, 2009, 03:13:13 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 14, 2009, 02:29:35 PM
    Quote from: NaztyNate on February 14, 2009, 12:57:21 PM
    17-27 from the line and 3 for 16 from three. Not gonna win playoff type games with those numbers. Cant put this one on Daley.

    Sure you can. What team allows 92 points in a must-win game? One that has an aversion to defense. And that starts with coaching.

    Is it his "style" to try to score more than the other team without worrying too much about stopping them a la Grinnell, Loyola Marymount, etc.?  Or does he not teach or recruit defense?

    One of the many colleges I attended, Troy St University in Alabama, was a DII power back in the 80's.  Their philosophy was to give you as many points as you could score and still score more.  They gave up 156 in one game.  Which was pretty bad, but since they scored 253, well...it worked out OK for them.  If I remember they made a 3 pointer every 9 seconds or something sick like that.  They lost to Bridgeport in the finals after scoring 120+ the night before in the semi's.  No gas in the tank.  Always got your money's worth when you went to a TSU game.

    I'm sure some of it is style-related, but there just seems to be a lack of effort at times on the defensive end. They've actually played a little better defensively as of late, which is why the outburst last night seems so bad. Although since 4 of those 6 games were against Hartwick, Alfred and Elmira, maybe it was just the competition
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 14, 2009, 07:21:41 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 14, 2009, 02:29:35 PM
    Quote from: NaztyNate on February 14, 2009, 12:57:21 PM
    17-27 from the line and 3 for 16 from three. Not gonna win playoff type games with those numbers. Cant put this one on Daley.

    Sure you can. What team allows 92 points in a must-win game? One that has an aversion to defense. And that starts with coaching.

    Naz wasn't the only team not playing much defense in that game as Utica allowed Naz to score 86 points on a night when Naz missed 10 free throws and shoots 3-16 from deep. Maybe if Naz hits some of those shots we would be talking about how UC played crap defense...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 14, 2009, 07:45:47 PM
    Bombers knock off visiting Fisher, 77-67.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 14, 2009, 07:52:07 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 14, 2009, 07:21:41 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 14, 2009, 02:29:35 PM
    Quote from: NaztyNate on February 14, 2009, 12:57:21 PM
    17-27 from the line and 3 for 16 from three. Not gonna win playoff type games with those numbers. Cant put this one on Daley.

    Sure you can. What team allows 92 points in a must-win game? One that has an aversion to defense. And that starts with coaching.

    Naz wasn't the only team not playing much defense in that game as Utica allowed Naz to score 86 points on a night when Naz missed 10 free throws and shoots 3-16 from deep. Maybe if Naz hits some of those shots we would be talking about how UC played crap defense...


    However you would be wrong. Naz is second in the conference in scoring behind Ithaca, and averages 81 points a game. They were right around what you would expect from them. UC however, only averages 71 ppg and dropped 92.

    Watching that game, UC had a lot of nice defensive stops. For the most part, the only time Naz "stopped" UC was when the shot simply didn't fall.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 14, 2009, 07:53:17 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 14, 2009, 01:07:35 PM
    UCGRAD and Fisher D you were right about the UC NAZ game and I was wrong... don't feel special, that happens a lot to me...  I was very close on the Stevens RIT game.  That now makes it a 3 team race for the 3-4 spots and NAZ is barely breathing.   Looks like IC... RIT... UC...Fisher in that order...to me. Tigers did what they had to and bench steeped up when they needed to. Stevens is horrific from foul line, and 19 turnovers. It's sad to watch his team try to play without a guy they can trust with the ball in their hands. In fairness they have played all year without a true point guard and were very young down low...They are also not deep......... so to be in the race this long was pretty good I guess.  Tigers impressed me last night. Carson did what Carson does, but as I stated they needed to close the game out if the outcome was still in the balance late and they did that.  I'm a little pumped about our chances to make that last game meaningful, but senior night at IC with the seniors they have graduating......It will take a miracle.....and yes UCGRAD now you know what I mean when I say BUT what do I know ;) 


    It's all good. You are a good sport.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 14, 2009, 07:54:19 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 14, 2009, 07:45:47 PM
    Bombers knock off visiting Fisher, 77-67.

    How was that game down the stretch? With 12 minutes left I had to stop watching. IC was firmly in control then.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: owen on February 14, 2009, 09:28:50 PM
    QuoteThey gave up 156 in one game.  Which was pretty bad, but since they scored 253, well...it worked out OK for them.
    Well said! Almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read that.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 14, 2009, 10:14:01 PM
    Quote from: UCgrad45 on February 14, 2009, 07:54:19 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 14, 2009, 07:45:47 PM
    Bombers knock off visiting Fisher, 77-67.

    How was that game down the stretch? With 12 minutes left I had to stop watching. IC was firmly in control then.

    UC--

    IC was pretty much in semi-control the rest of the way. Fisher didn't get closer than seven in the second half. IC lead by as much as 14 with 5:40 left
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 15, 2009, 04:37:32 PM
    RIT in another first half struggle, up 28-25...

    RIT had an early 17-8 lead, but Hartwick has closed the gap. Carson has 8-4 at halftime, which is a tad low for him
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 15, 2009, 05:12:12 PM
    50-43 Hartwick 11:30 to go...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 15, 2009, 05:19:16 PM
    Utica reverses 4 pt halftime deficit at Stevens. Pioneers now up 49-46 with 13:21 to go.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 15, 2009, 05:23:57 PM
    64-55 Hartwick 4:35 to go...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 15, 2009, 05:26:11 PM
    68-60 Wick 3:20 left...can RIT get another miracle comeback?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 15, 2009, 05:31:48 PM
    71-63 Wick with 2:25 to go
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 15, 2009, 05:39:58 PM
    Utica-Stevens tied at 61 with 4:03 left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 15, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
    80-72 Wick stuns RIT...

    RIT allows 55 second half points

    Maybe the Tigers got caught sleeping? They've now got to worry about making that IC showdown matter. RIT now has to contend with a Nazareth team they've already been beaten by once that IC stomped by 32. If RIT drops another, the IC game may be for semantics.

    Tigers still a dangerous team, but they need to get it together. Naz is still in the running for the conference tourney, so you know they'll come to play. RIT is still the clear favorite in that game, simply because of Naz's defensive lapses, but it's a little more interesting now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 15, 2009, 05:56:15 PM
    Utica down 64-63 with 36 seconds left hits 6 straight free throws to win it 69-64 and pretty much eliminate Stevens from conference tourney. Doug Herring with 25 and Patrick Goodman with 14 lead Utica. Simon Smith tops Stevens with 18 and Passalacqua adds 12.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 15, 2009, 06:11:16 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 15, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
    80-72 Wick stuns RIT...

    RIT allows 55 second half points

    Maybe the Tigers got caught sleeping? They've now got to worry about making that IC showdown matter. RIT now has to contend with a Nazareth team they've already been beaten by once that IC stomped by 32. If RIT drops another, the IC game may be for semantics.

    Tigers still a dangerous team, but they need to get it together. Naz is still in the running for the conference tourney, so you know they'll come to play. RIT is still the clear favorite in that game, simply because of Naz's defensive lapses, but it's a little more interesting now.

    No, sleeping has nothing to do with it. Simply put, Hartwick has owned RIT the last three years, winning of 5 of the 6 matchups between the two teams. RIT's one win during that span was a 59-58 nailbiter earlier this season in Oneonta. I don't know what it is about Hartwick, but they have RIT's number.

    Utica puts the final nail in the Stevens coffin. The Pioneers look to be in pretty good shape to make the E8 Tourney, holding the equivalent of a 2-game lead over Naz. More importantly, the Pios currently hold the #3 seed, thus avoiding Ithaca in the Semis.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 15, 2009, 06:18:17 PM
    So RIT & Ithaca have conference tourney spots for sure now, correct? ...And Utica pretty much has the 3 seed locked...

    So now we have Fisher & Naz fighting for the 4th spot? Naz plays @ RIT (tuesday) then finish with IThaca (friday) and Elmira (tuesday, 2/24). Meanwhile, Fisher has Alfred (tuesday), Utica (friday) and Elmira (saturday) to close out the season..

    Both teams are tied for the 4th spot at 7-6 records. If both tie at the end of the season then Fisher wins the tie-breaker because of their split vs Utica correct?? Since they split their head-to-head conference match-ups...

    thanks for the clarifications..

    Meanwhile, big loss for RIT. RITathletics.com isn't updated but I'm looking forward to checking out the box score on that game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 15, 2009, 09:58:57 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 15, 2009, 06:18:17 PM
    So RIT & Ithaca have conference tourney spots for sure now, correct? ...And Utica pretty much has the 3 seed locked...

    So now we have Fisher & Naz fighting for the 4th spot? Naz plays @ RIT (tuesday) then finish with IThaca (friday) and Elmira (tuesday, 2/24). Meanwhile, Fisher has Alfred (tuesday), Utica (friday) and Elmira (saturday) to close out the season..

    Both teams are tied for the 4th spot at 7-6 records. If both tie at the end of the season then Fisher wins the tie-breaker because of their split vs Utica correct?? Since they split their head-to-head conference match-ups...

    thanks for the clarifications..

    Meanwhile, big loss for RIT. RITathletics.com isn't updated but I'm looking forward to checking out the box score on that game.

    Here's what's stunning to me

    Rebounds:

    RIT: 35
    Hartwick: 39

    Points in the paint

    RIT: 24
    Hartwick: 28

    RIT is the best rebounding team in the conference and for them to be outdone by Hartwick inside stands out. Also, the Tigers shoot an appalling 11-22 from the line. Carson's improved himself greatly from the line, shooting a solid 63%, but he was terrible today, going 3-10 and 2-8 in the second half. Those points really hurt.

    Also, Korinchak was only able to play 15 minutes due to foul trouble. He picked up two in the opening 3:30 and sat the rest of the half. He picks his third up only 2:30 into the second half and had to sit for another five minutes. He was very effective, with 8 points, 5 assists and 3 steals in that time, but the fouls hurt him.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 16, 2009, 02:31:01 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 15, 2009, 06:18:17 PM
    So RIT & Ithaca have conference tourney spots for sure now, correct? ...And Utica pretty much has the 3 seed locked...

    So now we have Fisher & Naz fighting for the 4th spot? Naz plays @ RIT (tuesday) then finish with IThaca (friday) and Elmira (tuesday, 2/24). Meanwhile, Fisher has Alfred (tuesday), Utica (friday) and Elmira (saturday) to close out the season..

    Both teams are tied for the 4th spot at 7-6 records. If both tie at the end of the season then Fisher wins the tie-breaker because of their split vs Utica correct?? Since they split their head-to-head conference match-ups...

    thanks for the clarifications..

    Meanwhile, big loss for RIT. RITathletics.com isn't updated but I'm looking forward to checking out the box score on that game.

    I wouldn't give that 3 seed to Utica just yet. Fisher plays all 3 of their remaining games at home and can finish 10-6. That would give them the 3rd seed by virtue of their 2 wins over Utica. Friday matchup will, in all likelihood, determine the 3 spot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 16, 2009, 10:07:46 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 16, 2009, 02:31:01 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 15, 2009, 06:18:17 PM
    So RIT & Ithaca have conference tourney spots for sure now, correct? ...And Utica pretty much has the 3 seed locked...

    So now we have Fisher & Naz fighting for the 4th spot? Naz plays @ RIT (tuesday) then finish with IThaca (friday) and Elmira (tuesday, 2/24). Meanwhile, Fisher has Alfred (tuesday), Utica (friday) and Elmira (saturday) to close out the season..

    Both teams are tied for the 4th spot at 7-6 records. If both tie at the end of the season then Fisher wins the tie-breaker because of their split vs Utica correct?? Since they split their head-to-head conference match-ups...

    thanks for the clarifications..

    Meanwhile, big loss for RIT. RITathletics.com isn't updated but I'm looking forward to checking out the box score on that game.

    I wouldn't give that 3 seed to Utica just yet. Fisher plays all 3 of their remaining games at home and can finish 10-6. That would give them the 3rd seed by virtue of their 2 wins over Utica. Friday matchup will, in all likelihood, determine the 3 spot.

    Magic, agreed. Fisher is definitely in the driver's seat when it comes to the #3 seed. I say that because they have Alfred and Elmira at home (easy wins), and they've historically had Utica's number in Pittsford, as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 16, 2009, 07:17:15 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 16, 2009, 10:07:46 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 16, 2009, 02:31:01 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 15, 2009, 06:18:17 PM
    So RIT & Ithaca have conference tourney spots for sure now, correct? ...And Utica pretty much has the 3 seed locked...

    So now we have Fisher & Naz fighting for the 4th spot? Naz plays @ RIT (tuesday) then finish with IThaca (friday) and Elmira (tuesday, 2/24). Meanwhile, Fisher has Alfred (tuesday), Utica (friday) and Elmira (saturday) to close out the season..

    Both teams are tied for the 4th spot at 7-6 records. If both tie at the end of the season then Fisher wins the tie-breaker because of their split vs Utica correct?? Since they split their head-to-head conference match-ups...

    thanks for the clarifications..

    Meanwhile, big loss for RIT. RITathletics.com isn't updated but I'm looking forward to checking out the box score on that game.

    I wouldn't give that 3 seed to Utica just yet. Fisher plays all 3 of their remaining games at home and can finish 10-6. That would give them the 3rd seed by virtue of their 2 wins over Utica. Friday matchup will, in all likelihood, determine the 3 spot.

    Magic, agreed. Fisher is definitely in the driver's seat when it comes to the #3 seed. I say that because they have Alfred and Elmira at home (easy wins), and they've historically had Utica's number in Pittsford, as well.

    gobombers,

    I think you said easy wins on purpose in hopes of jinxing the Cardinals. ;) After all the Saxons played your Bombers pretty tough the 1st time they met(75-64) and that 73-71 Ithaca win over Alfred on Feb. 8th at Ithaca was anything but easy. But I do agree that Fisher should win those 2 games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 16, 2009, 07:37:32 PM
    New D3Hoops Top 25 Poll just out and Ithaca despite winning 2 games last week drops a spot to #9. St. Lawrence moves from #34 to #28 and RIT drops from #32 to #38. Former #1 Wheaton jumped ahead of Buena Vista and the Bombers moving from #10 to #7.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 16, 2009, 09:07:14 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 16, 2009, 07:37:32 PM
    New D3Hoops Top 25 Poll just out and Ithaca despite winning 2 games last week drops a spot to #9. St. Lawrence moves from #34 to #28 and RIT drops from #32 to #38. Former #1 Wheaton jumped ahead of Buena Vista and the Bombers moving from #10 to #7.

    Ithaca's got the same number of points this week as last week
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 17, 2009, 07:12:00 PM
    Brian Delaney reports in the Ithaca Journal this morning that Mullins is shutting down Bostic until the NCAA Tournament begins.

    http://www.theithacajournal.com/article/20090217/SPORTS/902170305
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 17, 2009, 09:52:32 PM
    Final from Fisher.....AU 71, Fisher 63
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 17, 2009, 09:55:16 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 17, 2009, 09:52:32 PM
    Final from Fisher.....AU 71, Fisher 63


    Reverse Psychology: Successful

    And Naz upsets RIT, 86-84. Ithaca's magic number is "1" to win the regular season title.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 17, 2009, 10:06:25 PM
    RIT learns it's not so fun when it happens to you...

    Corey McAdam drains a three with two seconds to go. Naz tops the Tigers 86-84...

    Carson has the game of his life...31 points, 20 rebounds, 8 blocks...that's such a staggeringly dominant performance that I can't even do it justice. 13-14 from the line, 9-19 from the floor. Standing ovation there for the big guy.

    Unfortunately, it may not matter. An IC victory over Naz friday wraps up the #1 seed in the conference tourney, and with the Bombers announcing that they'll shut down Jeff Bostic for the remainder of the regular season, Ithaca might be looking to ride a great regular season to an overall #1. Certainly, if they were 24-3 or 23-4 they would get a top seed in the East? The 2nd seed, St. Lawrence, already has four losses and the Bombers beat them on their home floor. They also beat the number 4 team in the rankings on the road.

    RIT may be skating dangerously close to needing to win the conference tourney to get it. The East is down, but they were only fifth at 16-4...if they wind up 19-8, would two wins over IC get them in as an at-large?

    SJF falls to Alfred. Man, that's too bad. They were looking so great for a seed in the tourney, and they played so loose and dangerous, I'd think of them as a sleeper team. Now they need to become IC fans. Both they and Naz play Elmira, and SJF has Utica to beat while hoping for another Naz loss to the Bombers. Does the Chase count in H2H matchups?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 18, 2009, 12:23:09 AM
    Utica closes in on the 3 seed with Fisher's loss tonight. Cardinals were 14-2 and #21 in the country. Since then have gone 1-6 and probably won't even make the E8 playoffs. Interesting though, because Utica, Fisher and Naz could all end up 9-7. Don't think that will happen because too many crazy things  need to take place. Looks like Ithaca vs Naz and RIT vs Utica on Feb. 27th in Ithaca.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 18, 2009, 10:18:40 AM
    Does the Chase count in H2H matchups?

    Sadly* , no.

    On Carson's game, holy freaking crap.  That is stunning.

    To Fisher's collapse, well, when things were going well I said:

    Take a deep breath, Fisher guys.  This is the same team that followed up a 36 point game against RIT with a 48 point win at Utica.

    UR lost Chmielowiec in that game, and it's sort of a big deal when you consider he had scored 11 points in the 11 minutes he played (on top of UR leading when he got injured).

    Be happy about the Chase win and where the young team is at, no doubt.  But hold off on the "Top 25" talk.


    Fisher strung a few wins together, but they weren't ever really a Top 25 caliber team. 

    Since Naz is involved, no one should count their chickens.  But even if the Cards sneak in it will only be to get pounded by the Bombers in the first game. 

    *not really
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 18, 2009, 10:34:02 AM
    never thought they were a top 25 caliber team but based on there standings at the time vs everyone else they deserved to be in there.  idk why you think they will get pounded when they didnt get 'pounded' in their first 2 games against the bombers? Are you still bitter that fisher handled rit the 2nd time around with freshmen and sophmores?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 18, 2009, 01:06:21 PM
    With two conference games remaining, here's one man's best guess as to how the post-season awards shake out. Things are still subject to change, but if the season ended today, here's what my ballot looks like:

    Player of the Year: Sean Burton (Ithaca): The engine of the top team in the league has averaged 20 pts (1st) and 8 assists (1st) in conference play. He also leads the conference in FT% (.938) and can be found in the top five of steals, 3-pointers made and assist-to-turnover ratio. He is the catalyst for Ithaca's style of play and is the primary reason the Bombers have risen as high as #8 in the country, setting several school records in the process. Mark Carson will garner some attention, too, and a late charge by RIT coupled with a collapse by the Bombers may muddle the matter. For now, Burton seems to be the frontrunner, not withstanding Carson's monster game last night.

    Rookie of the Year: Mark Blazek (Hartwick): The Hartwick sharpshooter narrowly edges Naz's Jordan Major for the award. Blazek has averaged 10.1 ppg in conference and has been named E8 Rookie of the Week on three occasions, a number equaled only by Naz's Major. I give the nod to Blazek because he is more valuable to his team than Major, for what that's worth. Like last year, I could see the conference naming Major and Blazek co-Rookies of the Year. Ithaca's Jordan Marcus may also garner some consideration.

    Coach of the Year: Jim Mullins (Ithaca): Usually, this award is given to the team who surprises during the conference season. However, though Ithaca was picked to win the conference this year, nobody thought they'd be this good. I think McVean was the favorite until RIT faltered over the last 8 days, though McVean could still have a shot if they win their last two games and own a season sweep over Mullins' Bombers. But if Ithaca finishes 15-1 and RIT ends up at 12-4, I think Mullins takes it.

    1st Team

    G- Sean Burton (Ithaca)
    G- Corey MacAdam (Nazareth)
    G- Doug Herring (Utica)
    F- Ryan MacAdam (Nazareth)
    C- Mark Carson (RIT)

    The locks are Burton, Corey MacAdam and Carson. After that, it gets fuzzy. I think Doug Herring is pretty safe. He appears in or towards the top in several statistical categories, and he is the best player on the team with the inside track at the #3 seed. He makes it. I'm sure most are wondering where Virgil Gray is and so was I after I got past the scoring statistic. The #4 scorer in the conference is conspicuously absent in most other categories. Simply put, Ryan MacAdam is a better-rounded player playing on a better team. At first blush, the "other" MacAdam has had a rather unremarkable season playing in the long shadow cast by his younger brother. However, when looking at the elder MacAdam's numbers, you see his value. Ryan is top 10 in scoring, rebounding, FT%, steals, 3-pt FG%, 3-pt FG made, and minutes played. Now, let's see if the voters realize this. Also garnering consideration, besides Gray, was Jeff Bostic whose late-season ankle injury probably steals his chances of being named 1st Team for the third consecutive year.

    2nd Team

    G- Jan Cocozziello (Hartwick)
    G- Virgil Gray (Stevens)
    F- Sean Leahy (Ithaca)
    F- Jeff Bostic (Ithaca)
    C- Jeff DeHimer (Nazareth)

    Some talent is going to be left off this team. Gray and Cocozziello belong here because they are two of the best pure scorers in the league but don't do much else well and, unfortunately, play on losing teams. Bostic is still top five in rebounds, blocks and FG%, and was in the top 20 of scoring before his ankle injury. Though he is the team's third option, Leahy is averaging a healthy 12 and 8, and I think he'll finally be rewarded in his third year for Ithaca. Finally, I struggled with the last spot, debating between DeHimer and Adamson for Elmira. Adamson is excellent statistically, better than DeHimer, but Adamson plays on the worst team in the league. That will hurt him. I could see Passalacqua garnering some consideration, as well.

    Honorable Mention

    Matt Newman (St. John Fisher)
    Chris Cruz (Ithaca)
    Anthony Passalacqua (Stevens)
    Mike Stopera (Alfred)
    Bobby DiPiazza (Elmira)
    Jon Adamson (Elmira)
    Patrick Goodman (Utica)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 18, 2009, 02:38:22 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 18, 2009, 10:34:02 AM
    Are you still bitter that fisher handled rit the 2nd time around with freshmen and sophmores?

    I considered using the "roll your eyes" emoticon here, but the googly eyes thing is sort of creepy so I'm staying away.

    Anyway.  Look, Fisher was never one of the top 25 teams in the country.  I think we all understand how polls work and the reasons they ended up in this one, but that doesn't invalidate my point. 

    Yes, I think they would get beat comfortably by Ithaca in the conference tournament at this point.  The Bombers are A LOT better than them and they'll be fired up to host the tournament.  And the Cardinals can't be full of confidence at this particular point, either.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 18, 2009, 03:49:37 PM
    Quote from: bamm on February 18, 2009, 02:38:22 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 18, 2009, 10:34:02 AM
    Are you still bitter that fisher handled rit the 2nd time around with freshmen and sophmores?

    I considered using the "roll your eyes" emoticon here, but the googly eyes thing is sort of creepy so I'm staying away.

    Anyway.  Look, Fisher was never one of the top 25 teams in the country.  I think we all understand how polls work and the reasons they ended up in this one, but that doesn't invalidate my point. 

    Yes, I think they would get beat comfortably by Ithaca in the conference tournament at this point.  The Bombers are A LOT better than them and they'll be fired up to host the tournament.  And the Cardinals can't be full of confidence at this particular point, either.

    As someone who saw the last SJF/IC game I can tell you this, Ithaca would not roll SJF. Bostic's injury makes them so reliant on the outside shot, and when those don't fall, it's rough. They also struggle more with interior defense/rebounding

    As for the SJF ranking issue, it is what it is. The Cardinals have fallen on some hard times, and come back down to earth, but they're not as a bad a team as they're showing right now either.

    As a whole, this has been the story of the E8 this year. Other than Ithaca, everyone's been sort of up and down.

    Fisher was 14-2, and have gone 1-6 since
    Utica lost 5 in a row at one point this year, but are 12-2 since.
    Stevens was 7-2, and and have gone 5-9 since.
    Alfred was a respectable 7-8, but then lost 7 straight.
    Hartwick was 7-3, and then went 1-8
    Naz was 4-11 and have gone 7-1 since
    Even RIT has dropped 3 of their last 4

    So you've seen this from every team so far except Ithaca--who hasn't had a rough stretch--and Elmira--who hasn't had a good stretch.

    Over the course of a long season, almost every team is going to have these kinds of stretches.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 18, 2009, 04:02:35 PM
    good points bombers id give you karma but never took the time to figure it out haha. 

    Gobombers, Im going to have to agree with your award analysis.  Burton is the clear favorite as of right now seeing how rit has fallin off sharply since our last discussions. 

    I think Ozell Franklin or Matt Newman deserve a 2nd team nomination and Ozell is definatly an honerable mention without question he had a number of big games this year in conference including one against a blow out vs rit. I agree with your 1st team 100%, 2nd team same maybe drop leahy down to honerable mention and sub one of those 2 fisher players in there. 

    Kornacker should get some love on the COY votes as fisher well before the awful skid was playing great with not a lot of players after losing all the players they did this year its pretty remarkable were ranked in the country. Now they have come down to reality so kornacker is out and mullins will get it without question.  22-1 is a great record regardless how down the region is, to pull out close games and to win on the road in conference is a great accomplishment.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 18, 2009, 04:49:22 PM
    New regional rankings...fisher checks in at 5...replacing RIT

    Boy, the East must really be down. I am not suprised RIT moved down but Fisher's inclusion kind of tells me something about the state of the east. They did handily beat RIT and they hung with Ithaca on the road, but that's still a 1-1 week and 12-7 in region seems like a pretty not special record to be ranked fifth in the East. It's getting like football season or something. It's not that Fisher may not be the 5th best in region but boy, what does that tell you about the region? A team that had lost five of their last six at the time of the rankings goes up a spot? Ye gods, what's going on in the East?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on February 18, 2009, 05:58:21 PM
    in my opinion it is the worst the region has been since ive been following d3 bout 9 years.  Besides Ithaca, the only other credible actually good team seems to be St. Lawrence. luckily the NESCAC is down so hopefully Ithaca can still represent the East well and make a good run in the NCAA. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 19, 2009, 09:22:40 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 18, 2009, 04:49:22 PM
    New regional rankings...fisher checks in at 5...replacing RIT

    The regional rankings are determined a certain way and that's fine.  Obviously Fisher's inclusion is rather stunning.

    In my opinion, Geneseo's surge is explained by them finally playing to their ability (as opposed to dominating a weakened SUNYAC).  They are dangerous, and will be definitely be in my fan Top 5.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 19, 2009, 11:37:11 AM
    I haven't been hiding, just busy...but I'll take my medicine....  I posted last week I thought Tigers could lose 3 of last 4, and to be honest, they should have lost to Stevens as well....Carson is great, his numbers show that, but he can't carry this team.... not enough behind him....  I also posted awhile back the only way this conference gets two NCAA bids is if someone beats IC in E 8 tourney.   That probably won't happen... NAZ and Fisher going in opposite directions. Naz is dangerous, I still can't believe they lost to UC while scoring 86 points ( wait, yes I can),,,,,,,, TRULY what do I know  ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 19, 2009, 12:05:56 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 19, 2009, 11:37:11 AM
    I haven't been hiding, just busy...but I'll take my medicine....  I posted last week I thought Tigers could lose 3 of last 4, and to be honest, they should have lost to Stevens as well....Carson is great, his numbers show that, but he can't carry this team.... not enough behind him....  I also posted awhile back the only way this conference gets two NCAA bids is if someone beats IC in E 8 tourney.   That probably won't happen... NAZ and Fisher going in opposite directions. Naz is dangerous, I still can't believe they lost to UC while scoring 86 points ( wait, yes I can),,,,,,,, TRULY what do I know  ;)   

    I gotta disagree with you on some stuff buddy.

    While I too thought that RIT was getting a lot of breaks and were capable of losing some games down the road, they still have a chance to beat IC in the conference tournament

    The Bombers have shut down Jeff Bostic until the NCAA's. It's a smart move, the right move, but also a telling move. Ithaca is 22-1. Even if they lose a game or two, they're likely to be a top seed in the East. So at this point, they're essentially saying, "Hey, let's worry about the NCAA's when we get there." Can you blame them? They've beaten the number 2, 4, and 5th ranked teams in the East. So they may not be as sharp or concerned about the Conference tournament as the other teams will, because they don't need to be. And of all the teams in the tournament, RIT is the one most equipped to take advantage of Bostic's absence.

    The only thing I'll say that's disconcerting to me if I'm an RIT fan is that it's probably not possible for Mark Carson to play any better than he did against Naz, and if that can't get them a win, it has to raise some question marks about the supporting cast.

    Naz is dangerous, but I want to see how they play IC on Friday before jumping to a conclusion. If IC hangs 100+ on them in another blowout, well, I'm not going to be to worried about them when they come back to Ithaca for the conference tourney. Now, if they happen to win say, 95-87 or something, that's a different story
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 19, 2009, 01:24:34 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 19, 2009, 12:05:56 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 19, 2009, 11:37:11 AM
    I haven't been hiding, just busy...but I'll take my medicine....  I posted last week I thought Tigers could lose 3 of last 4, and to be honest, they should have lost to Stevens as well....Carson is great, his numbers show that, but he can't carry this team.... not enough behind him....  I also posted awhile back the only way this conference gets two NCAA bids is if someone beats IC in E 8 tourney.   That probably won't happen... NAZ and Fisher going in opposite directions. Naz is dangerous, I still can't believe they lost to UC while scoring 86 points ( wait, yes I can),,,,,,,, TRULY what do I know  ;)   

    I gotta disagree with you on some stuff buddy.

    While I too thought that RIT was getting a lot of breaks and were capable of losing some games down the road, they still have a chance to beat IC in the conference tournament

    The Bombers have shut down Jeff Bostic until the NCAA's. It's a smart move, the right move, but also a telling move. Ithaca is 22-1. Even if they lose a game or two, they're likely to be a top seed in the East. So at this point, they're essentially saying, "Hey, let's worry about the NCAA's when we get there." Can you blame them? They've beaten the number 2, 4, and 5th ranked teams in the East. So they may not be as sharp or concerned about the Conference tournament as the other teams will, because they don't need to be. And of all the teams in the tournament, RIT is the one most equipped to take advantage of Bostic's absence.

    The only thing I'll say that's disconcerting to me if I'm an RIT fan is that it's probably not possible for Mark Carson to play any better than he did against Naz, and if that can't get them a win, it has to raise some question marks about the supporting cast.

    Naz is dangerous, but I want to see how they play IC on Friday before jumping to a conclusion. If IC hangs 100+ on them in another blowout, well, I'm not going to be to worried about them when they come back to Ithaca for the conference tourney. Now, if they happen to win say, 95-87 or something, that's a different story

    Bombers, Naz will play Ithaca tough on Friday night, no doubt about it. They should, they're playing for their E8 Tourney lives. Ithaca is playing for the right to host, so that should help, but will it be enough to offset the loss of Bostic? We'll find out. I'd rather not have the last game of the year be for the right to host.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 19, 2009, 02:15:30 PM
    RIT will not beat IC with or without Bostick..  I am telling you guys they have the YIPS right now. The supporting cast is not handling pressure well,and it only gets tougher. Correct me if I am wrong but if NAZ and Fisher are tied, wouldn't NAZ get the nod... coming down to road wins within conference. Fisher has been great at home like always, but horrible on the road. Fisher is in tough spot right now. NAZ will lose to IC, and Fisher may beat UC which they need to do and then Elmira has to cooperate with both NAZ and Fisher (by losing both)... I think NAZ gets the nod...Now getting into E 8 Tourney the hot teams would be NAZ and of course IC...Although one has to lose when they play next.  RIT is reeling and UC needs to beat Fisher going in...... Hey UC could end up with only 9 wins, IF both Fisher and Alfred beat them.... and that was another issue discussed awhile back stating how basically anyone can pull an upset... ALMOST anyone.... What does FROMAFAR KNOW.... sorry Pep stealing your speaking in 3rd person...... 8)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 19, 2009, 02:18:17 PM
    Actually I take it back..... NAZ would get the nod if Stevens finishes 6th.. NAZ beat them twice Fisher split,... Am I right about this OR am I missing something....?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 20, 2009, 01:25:16 PM
    I think I have it now..... If NAZ beats IC ( not likely) they get tie breaker over Fisher..... If not Fisher gets it because NAZ lost twice to UC............this is of course if they finished tied......... ::)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 20, 2009, 05:27:41 PM
    Final weekend predictions of the regular season...

    Ithaca 87 - Naz 82...(IC just too much firepower, but Naz will make it difficult.)

    Utica 71 - Fisher 60...(Fisher still hungover from Alfred loss.)

    Alfred 62 - Hartwick 58... (Alfred playing with confidence looking to close season out strong.)

    Fisher 67 - Elmira 55... (Fisher ends season with a win.)

    Alfred 61 - Utica 70 (Utica goes 2-0 on the road trip.)

    RIT 66 - IC 83...(RIT is in a funk, IC keeps rolling & hosts E-8 tourney.)

    Best of luck to everyone!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 20, 2009, 08:46:36 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 20, 2009, 05:27:41 PM
    Final weekend predictions of the regular season...

    Ithaca 87 - Naz 82...(IC just too much firepower, but Naz will make it difficult.)

    Utica 71 - Fisher 60...(Fisher still hungover from Alfred loss.)

    Alfred 62 - Hartwick 58... (Alfred playing with confidence looking to close season out strong.)

    Fisher 67 - Elmira 55... (Fisher ends season with a win.)

    Alfred 61 - Utica 70 (Utica goes 2-0 on the road trip.)

    RIT 66 - IC 83...(RIT is in a funk, IC keeps rolling & hosts E-8 tourney.)

    Best of luck to everyone!



    At the half

    SJF 33, Utica 26

    Franklin leads the Cardinals with nine. A win with a Naz loss puts them in position to take back the final spot in the conference tourney. Herring leads Utica with 11

    Ithaca 56, Nazareth 46

    Could have seen this score coming, as neither team is playing defense. Ryan McAdam has 12-9 at the half for Nazareth. Burton with 13 and 8 assists for Ithaca. A win clinches the #1 seed in the conference tournament for the Bombers and possibly a conference POY award for Burton.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2009, 09:25:31 PM
    Great game going on with fisher/UC.  Hometown refs making it interesting. May have fired up UC. They gave a statement call against Herring at the end of the first half, and it was bad. Then in the second, Newman (I think it was him) gets in the refs face for almost a full 45 seconds after a foul call and nothing happens. A few minutes later, Herring gets hit in the face as he shoots with no call, asks for the foul and gets an immediate technical. There is only one of the three calling anything against fisher, and he just injured his ankle. Hopefully he is ok and able to stay in the game. Both teams playing tough.

    Herring earlier in the game sat in the stands for a minute. I can't imagine trying that in that gym 3 years ago. Not only would he have been assaulted, UC fans in general would have had a hard time.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2009, 09:30:19 PM
    Tie game with less than 7 minutes left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2009, 09:35:04 PM
    Under 4 and Utica up by 4.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2009, 09:36:04 PM
    Franklin can play. He is the only one keeping them in this game. UC is getting a lot of players scoring now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2009, 09:37:01 PM
    And the ref with the mohawk who has been doing everything short of wearing a fisher jersey calls a phantom foul on UC and Fisher gets the lead. This guy has been hosing UC all night.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2009, 09:40:06 PM
    UC up by one with less than a minute to go.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2009, 09:43:27 PM
    UC up by one with about 22 seconds to go.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 20, 2009, 09:48:58 PM
    UC wins 68-63. Huge win.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 20, 2009, 09:54:19 PM
    The Bombers are the #1 seed for next weekend's conference tournament. Ithaca rolls over Nazareth again, this time 113-86. Nazareth offers absolutely no defense once again, as the Bombers score at will. Ithaca's defense wasn't much better, but 15 three pointers and 18 offensive rebounds mark the difference.

    Frankly, this should end the conference POY debates. Burton gets 32 and 13 assists and is going to lead the conference in scoring (Unless Carson outscores Burton by 43 when they play). The 13 assists also push him ahead of McAdam for the most assists in the conference, although the lead is only four and could change since Naz is playing Elmira and Burton may get some rest. At the end of the day though, it's tough to come up with an argument against the Conference's leading scorer and possible leading assist man when his team finishes with a much better record. Athough it's not Carson's fault, RIT faded down the stretch and the Bombers never missed a beat despite losing one of their best players to injury.

    It will be interesting to see what Ithaca does on Sunday. In all likelyhood, they've wrapped up a #1 seed in the East, so the game may not mean much, and they certainly won't want anyone hurt. However, they may see RIT in the conference finals, so they don't want to just roll over.

    As far as the rest of the conference tournament goes, Fisher hangs tough but falls to Utica 68-63. The loss probably spells the end for the Cardinals, as both they and Naz have one game left against conference doormat Elmira. If both win, here are the matchups:

    Ithaca-Naz
    RIT-Utica

    Bombers have to be very happy, playing a team they've beaten twice by an average of 29.5 points and against whom they've scored 117.5. I can't see Ithaca having any trouble with Nazareth in round three

    As for RIT-Utica, the Tigers took both matchups in the regular season, although the second, on the road, was only by three. A lot will depend on the game Sunday. If RIT looks impressive, I'll go Tigers. But if they struggle again, and Utica can top Alfred, it might go to the Pioneers.

    Good luck to all!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 20, 2009, 10:42:22 PM
    Hey Bombers --

    While I'd be fine with the award going to Burton (he certainly deserves it), I think it's a mistake to think his performance tonight was the nail in the coffin (unless you are asserting that Ithaca's clinching of the regular season championship is the deal sealer).

    Carson and Burton have been equally impressive individually this year, I think it would be fruitless to argue for either through their statistical strengths.  Burton plays on a better team that eventually took control of the conference, and that's a good enough reason to give him the award. 

    But by individual performance, they were equals.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Michigan452 on February 20, 2009, 11:54:39 PM
    WOW cant believe that fisher-UC game.  One that will go down in the record books most likely, as this is the first time that fisher has not made the e8 tourney. These guys cannot hit a free throw.  Also fisher needs to focus on making better decisions in the clutch.  This can be attributed to bad preparation by the coaching staff.  Obviously fisher does not practice situational basketball at all.  I cant believe they blew this game.  Utica did play well down the stretch with good shooting and good decisions.  This shows how much Connelly has progressed in his coaching.  I am very excited to see Utica in the next 2 years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 21, 2009, 01:24:27 AM
    Quote from: bamm on February 20, 2009, 10:42:22 PM
    Hey Bombers --

    While I'd be fine with the award going to Burton (he certainly deserves it), I think it's a mistake to think his performance tonight was the nail in the coffin (unless you are asserting that Ithaca's clinching of the regular season championship is the deal sealer).

    Carson and Burton have been equally impressive individually this year, I think it would be fruitless to argue for either through their statistical strengths.  Burton plays on a better team that eventually took control of the conference, and that's a good enough reason to give him the award. 

    But by individual performance, they were equals.

    Yeah, that was my point, should have made that clearer. The statistics are essentially dead even, (That is, if you assign equal weight to assists and rebounds) but the fact that Burton did it for a 23-1 conference champ missing one of their best players for a good chunk of the season while RIT faded puts it over the top
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 21, 2009, 01:34:30 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 21, 2009, 01:24:27 AM
    Quote from: bamm on February 20, 2009, 10:42:22 PM
    Hey Bombers --

    While I'd be fine with the award going to Burton (he certainly deserves it), I think it's a mistake to think his performance tonight was the nail in the coffin (unless you are asserting that Ithaca's clinching of the regular season championship is the deal sealer).

    Carson and Burton have been equally impressive individually this year, I think it would be fruitless to argue for either through their statistical strengths.  Burton plays on a better team that eventually took control of the conference, and that's a good enough reason to give him the award. 

    But by individual performance, they were equals.

    Yeah, that was my point, should have made that clearer. The statistics are essentially dead even, (That is, if you assign equal weight to assists and rebounds) but the fact that Burton did it for a 23-1 conference champ missing one of their best players for a good chunk of the season while RIT faded puts it over the top

    How about co-players of the year. They both certainly deserve the honor and it would be hard to fault the selection process if that happened.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 21, 2009, 12:53:20 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 21, 2009, 01:34:30 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 21, 2009, 01:24:27 AM
    Quote from: bamm on February 20, 2009, 10:42:22 PM
    Hey Bombers --

    While I'd be fine with the award going to Burton (he certainly deserves it), I think it's a mistake to think his performance tonight was the nail in the coffin (unless you are asserting that Ithaca's clinching of the regular season championship is the deal sealer).

    Carson and Burton have been equally impressive individually this year, I think it would be fruitless to argue for either through their statistical strengths.  Burton plays on a better team that eventually took control of the conference, and that's a good enough reason to give him the award. 

    But by individual performance, they were equals.

    Yeah, that was my point, should have made that clearer. The statistics are essentially dead even, (That is, if you assign equal weight to assists and rebounds) but the fact that Burton did it for a 23-1 conference champ missing one of their best players for a good chunk of the season while RIT faded puts it over the top

    How about co-players of the year. They both certainly deserve the honor and it would be hard to fault the selection process if that happened.

    I had kicked that idea around myself, and almost threw it out there. Here's my thought on it, but it's only one guy's opinion, so be kind

    These games aren't played in vacuums only to be analyzed on a score sheet. The team you play for, and the success they have, should count for something in the argument. If they don't, why aren't we kicking around Corey McAdam's chances? Consider:

    His assist numbers are equal to Burton's and his PPG is only one less than Carson's and within three of Burton's. In fact, he's closer to Carson in scoring than Carson is to Burton. He also leads the conference in steals and assist/turnover ratio. He's even getting over 6 rebounds a game. When you consider everything, his numbers stack up pretty well with those of Burton and Carson, but I haven't seen one person even give serious consideration to him all season. Why? Well, because Naz is 11-13 and one upset away from missing the conference tournament and so McAdam is pretty much out of the running as far as we're concerned.

    So to me, it's a bit unfair to eliminate McAdam by essentially saying his team's success is the reason he's out if we're not going to look at team success when comparing Burton and Carson. Because that difference has to mean something too
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 21, 2009, 01:13:19 PM
    Bombers, I agree with you. But you know damn well a leader of a below .500 team is never going to win an MVP, a POY, or any award like that in any league at any level.

    Meanwhile, how silly of me to predict IC to score only 87 points at Naz. Averaging 117.5 a game and a 29.5 point margin of victory against naz now...they've got to feel fine heading into conference tourney next week if Naz takes care of business with Elmira.

    And about the Fisher loss, 10-24 is all I have to say. That's just ridiculous. Let's see if Fisher can pull it together and get a win in the season finale.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 21, 2009, 01:34:39 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 21, 2009, 01:13:19 PM
    Bombers, I agree with you. But you know damn well a leader of a below .500 team is never going to win an MVP, a POY, or any award like that in any league at any level.

    Meanwhile, how silly of me to predict IC to score only 87 points at Naz. Averaging 117.5 a game and a 29.5 point margin of victory against naz now...they've got to feel fine heading into conference tourney next week if Naz takes care of business with Elmira.

    And about the Fisher loss, 10-24 is all I have to say. That's just ridiculous. Let's see if Fisher can pull it together and get a win in the season finale.

    I do know that...that was my point. I'm not saying McAdam deserves the recognition. I'm just saying, if we're using the team success argument for one guy, we have to use it for all of them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: MHoops on February 21, 2009, 04:58:00 PM
    Has there been an official announcement of what days the men's Empire 8 semi-finals and finals will be held?  Ithaca's press release says semi-finals are on 2/28 while the empire8.com site says the semis are on 2/27.

    http://www.empire8.com/MBasket-Over.shtml
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 21, 2009, 05:58:44 PM
    Quote from: MHoops on February 21, 2009, 04:58:00 PM
    Has there been an official announcement of what days the men's Empire 8 semi-finals and finals will be held?  Ithaca's press release says semi-finals are on 2/28 while the empire8.com site says the semis are on 2/27.

    http://www.empire8.com/MBasket-Over.shtml

    No, they both say the 28th...

    "The Bombers will host the semifinals and final next Saturday and Sunday."

    Next Saturday is the 28th.

    It will be interesting to see how the times go if the IC women host as well. That's never happened before in the E8. I wonder if they'd try to have the women's/men's teams play back to back so fans don't have to wait around. In all likelyhood, Utica and IC are going to be the only two with both teams in. I'm just guessing on the seeds as of now but if you went something like

    Women: Utica-Stevens
    Men: Utica-RIT
    Women: Ithaca-SJF
    Men: Ithaca-Naz

    Or some permutation on that, it'd probably be nice for the fans.

    *Yes, this assumes IC's women top RIT and Naz beats Elmira. Neither is much of a stretch.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: MHoops on February 21, 2009, 06:07:14 PM
    I thought the semis were going to be on the 28th as well, but the empire8 link I posted above has this:

    Date: Feb. 27-28, 2009
    Location: Top Seed

    This thread here has 27th-28th too: 
       http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=6127.msg1036404#msg1036404
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 21, 2009, 06:16:19 PM
    Quote from: MHoops on February 21, 2009, 06:07:14 PM
    I thought the semis were going to be on the 28th as well, but the empire8 link I posted above has this:

    Date: Feb. 27-28, 2009
    Location: Top Seed

    This thread here has 27th-28th too: 
       http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=6127.msg1036404#msg1036404

    Yeah, I see that now. Conflicting information abounds...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 21, 2009, 06:39:20 PM
    Burton will be POY period.........  IC will beat NAZ (gee how's that for going out on  limb?)...  UC will beat my beloved Tigers, I think we overachieved this year and Carson could only carry these guys for so long...I didn't see the Fisher UC game but I have seen the same scenario with the refs for so long at Fisher.   It's horrible, I believe every word.....My Stevens guys are completely dissapointed in the Ducks, how many close games ( in the balance with 2-3 minutes to go and they just can't close it out).... Basically played with 5 forwards and no point...Too many T/O's this year and foul shooting, I dunno 58%  maybe...  I will be there to see my Tigers, I'll be the guy with my hands over my mouth, and wearing a Tiger Hat.....  I just can't see us beating UC and IC on successive nights.........BUT what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 21, 2009, 08:56:08 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 21, 2009, 06:16:19 PM
    Quote from: MHoops on February 21, 2009, 06:07:14 PM
    I thought the semis were going to be on the 28th as well, but the empire8 link I posted above has this:

    Date: Feb. 27-28, 2009
    Location: Top Seed

    This thread here has 27th-28th too: 
       http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=6127.msg1036404#msg1036404

    Yeah, I see that now. Conflicting information abounds...

    Last night I went to the E8 Men's Basketball site and saw this:

    Date: Feb. 27-28, 2009
    Location: Top Seed


    I then gave that info to D3Hoops and it was posted on the link mentioned above.

    Today an article on the E8 website and also article on Ithaca's website both state the semifinals are on Sat. Feb 28th and finals on Sun. March 1st. I'll inform D3Hoops of the change.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: MHoops on February 22, 2009, 02:36:18 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 21, 2009, 08:56:08 PM
    Last night I went to the E8 Men's Basketball site and saw this:

    Date: Feb. 27-28, 2009
    Location: Top Seed


    I then gave that info to D3Hoops and it was posted on the link mentioned above.

    Today an article on the E8 website and also article on Ithaca's website both state the semifinals are on Sat. Feb 28th and finals on Sun. March 1st. I'll inform D3Hoops of the change.

    The press release for today's Ithaca women's game says that the women's tournament will be Friday/Saturday.  I guess the men's tournament was moved to Saturday/Sunday in anticipation of Ithaca hosting both tournaments.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 22, 2009, 04:57:20 PM
    I really hope RIT was just phoning it in since they have the #2 seed, because if they were really trying, they've got a long way to go to hang with Ithaca. The Bombers walked all over RIT 101-74.

    I was really unimpressed with the Tigers. For having a big guy like Carson inside, they were thoroughly dominated on the boards even though Ithaca was missing Jeff Bostic. When a guard like Scott Ruffrage who is 6-0, can pull down 12 rebounds, there's a lack of effort inside. The Bombers were a +15 on the boards, which is staggering.

    Carson puts up a solid 19-13, but Tom Brown hangs with him with a 9-11. Scott Ruffrage goes for 15-12, setting career highs in both and continues to hit big shots. Jordan Marcus goes for 21 including two very nice drives where he banked it off the glass over Carson.

    Sean Burton proves why he's the top player in the conference. He goes 12-18 from the floor, 6-10 from three. 32 points, 10 assists and 6 steals. An all-around amazing effort. RIT simply does not have the players to match up with him On the third possession of the game, Brendan Rogers gets a steal, gets it to Burton who hits Cruz for an alley-oop dunk. The place went nuts. It was 6-0 at that point, but the game was over. Bombers went up by 20 at the half. RIT never gets closer than 18 the rest of the way.

    RIT really just seemed out of it, which is disappointing. I know the game didn't really mean anything, but I don't know how it benefits a team to go into the conference tournament losing 4 of 5. They have beaten Utica twice, but it seems like that was a long time ago. They certainly need to play better than they did today. A win over IC certainly would have given RIT a mental edge, knowing they topped them twice

    One bad thing for the Bombers is that Chris Cruz picked up two technicals, meaning he's out for the 1st round game of the conference tournament. I'm told Ithaca plans to appeal. The 1st technical came for hanging on the rim after the alley-oop, which had the Bombers furious. The second was a retaliatory toss of the basketball at an RIT player following a hard foul. Cruz has to know better than that on the 2nd one, but frankly, the first technical was a weak call. Hopefully Ithaca can get it overturned.

    Also, although he hasn't got much press, I'm very impressed with the way Sean Leahy has adapted his game. He pulled down 8 rebounds today, and since Bostic's injury, has been averaging 9.4 rebounds a game as Ithaca has moved him inside.

    Bombers wrap up a 24-1 regular season, best in school history.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 22, 2009, 07:02:30 PM
    If my math is accurate, Doug Herring is 10 points shy of surpassing Justin Cichon for second on the all time scoring list at Utica College.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 22, 2009, 07:20:00 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 22, 2009, 04:57:20 PM
    I really hope RIT was just phoning it in since they have the #2 seed, because if they were really trying, they've got a long way to go to hang with Ithaca. The Bombers walked all over RIT 101-74.

    I was really unimpressed with the Tigers. For having a big guy like Carson inside, they were thoroughly dominated on the boards even though Ithaca was missing Jeff Bostic. When a guard like Scott Ruffrage who is 6-0, can pull down 12 rebounds, there's a lack of effort inside. The Bombers were a +15 on the boards, which is staggering.

    Carson puts up a solid 19-13, but Tom Brown hangs with him with a 9-11. Scott Ruffrage goes for 15-12, setting career highs in both and continues to hit big shots. Jordan Marcus goes for 21 including two very nice drives where he banked it off the glass over Carson.

    Sean Burton proves why he's the top player in the conference. He goes 12-18 from the floor, 6-10 from three. 32 points, 10 assists and 6 steals. An all-around amazing effort. RIT simply does not have the players to match up with him On the third possession of the game, Brendan Rogers gets a steal, gets it to Burton who hits Cruz for an alley-oop dunk. The place went nuts. It was 6-0 at that point, but the game was over. Bombers went up by 20 at the half. RIT never gets closer than 18 the rest of the way.

    RIT really just seemed out of it, which is disappointing. I know the game didn't really mean anything, but I don't know how it benefits a team to go into the conference tournament losing 4 of 5. They have beaten Utica twice, but it seems like that was a long time ago. They certainly need to play better than they did today. A win over IC certainly would have given RIT a mental edge, knowing they topped them twice

    One bad thing for the Bombers is that Chris Cruz picked up two technicals, meaning he's out for the 1st round game of the conference tournament. I'm told Ithaca plans to appeal. The 1st technical came for hanging on the rim after the alley-oop, which had the Bombers furious. The second was a retaliatory toss of the basketball at an RIT player following a hard foul. Cruz has to know better than that on the 2nd one, but frankly, the first technical was a weak call. Hopefully Ithaca can get it overturned.

    Also, although he hasn't got much press, I'm very impressed with the way Sean Leahy has adapted his game. He pulled down 8 rebounds today, and since Bostic's injury, has been averaging 9.4 rebounds a game as Ithaca has moved him inside.

    Bombers wrap up a 24-1 regular season, best in school history.



    Bombers, i agree with your assessment. I was thoroughly unimpressed with RIT, and was surprised when I looked at the boxscore and saw that players other than Carson scored in double figures. I was impressed with his skill around the basket, it seemed like he was able to get to the basket with ease (although not all the shots fell). Brown did a good job limiting any second chance points, which is probably why Carson only finished with 19. I also thoug

    The Bombers absolutely shot the lights out, especially (and unsurprisingly) Burton. Also found myself impressed with the play of Marcus, who showed he can pull up or drive to the hoop.

    It will be interesting to see what Ithaca can do when their shots aren't falling from the outside because it seemed like they didn't want to take anything inside the arc (and a look at the boxscore shows 37 of their 72 shots were from three-point range,  which is more than 50 percent). If they aren't hitting, they better hope Bostic is 100 percent.

    Today's game also had me wondering if something else is going on behind the scenes at RIT. They've lost their last three and all four of their conference losses have come in their last five games (a span of 12 days). Outside of the loss to IC today, the others were versus 5th-place St. John Fisher (16-9 overall, 8-8 E8), 6th place Hartwick (13-12, 6-10) and 4th-place Nazareth (11-13, 8-7). Two weeks ago, the Tigers had the inside line on hosting, provided they could give the Bombers a game today. Now, they are the just one game ahead of 3rd-place Utica, which is on a hot, 7-game winning streak. This is a team that was cruising in the league, and now may not even be good enough to make it to the conference championship. It may be nothing more than the ball bouncing the other teams' way, but it seems like something has happened to take the wind out of their sails.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 22, 2009, 09:31:44 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on February 22, 2009, 07:20:00 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 22, 2009, 04:57:20 PM
    I really hope RIT was just phoning it in since they have the #2 seed, because if they were really trying, they've got a long way to go to hang with Ithaca. The Bombers walked all over RIT 101-74.

    I was really unimpressed with the Tigers. For having a big guy like Carson inside, they were thoroughly dominated on the boards even though Ithaca was missing Jeff Bostic. When a guard like Scott Ruffrage who is 6-0, can pull down 12 rebounds, there's a lack of effort inside. The Bombers were a +15 on the boards, which is staggering.

    Carson puts up a solid 19-13, but Tom Brown hangs with him with a 9-11. Scott Ruffrage goes for 15-12, setting career highs in both and continues to hit big shots. Jordan Marcus goes for 21 including two very nice drives where he banked it off the glass over Carson.

    Sean Burton proves why he's the top player in the conference. He goes 12-18 from the floor, 6-10 from three. 32 points, 10 assists and 6 steals. An all-around amazing effort. RIT simply does not have the players to match up with him On the third possession of the game, Brendan Rogers gets a steal, gets it to Burton who hits Cruz for an alley-oop dunk. The place went nuts. It was 6-0 at that point, but the game was over. Bombers went up by 20 at the half. RIT never gets closer than 18 the rest of the way.

    RIT really just seemed out of it, which is disappointing. I know the game didn't really mean anything, but I don't know how it benefits a team to go into the conference tournament losing 4 of 5. They have beaten Utica twice, but it seems like that was a long time ago. They certainly need to play better than they did today. A win over IC certainly would have given RIT a mental edge, knowing they topped them twice

    One bad thing for the Bombers is that Chris Cruz picked up two technicals, meaning he's out for the 1st round game of the conference tournament. I'm told Ithaca plans to appeal. The 1st technical came for hanging on the rim after the alley-oop, which had the Bombers furious. The second was a retaliatory toss of the basketball at an RIT player following a hard foul. Cruz has to know better than that on the 2nd one, but frankly, the first technical was a weak call. Hopefully Ithaca can get it overturned.

    Also, although he hasn't got much press, I'm very impressed with the way Sean Leahy has adapted his game. He pulled down 8 rebounds today, and since Bostic's injury, has been averaging 9.4 rebounds a game as Ithaca has moved him inside.

    Bombers wrap up a 24-1 regular season, best in school history.



    Bombers, i agree with your assessment. I was thoroughly unimpressed with RIT, and was surprised when I looked at the boxscore and saw that players other than Carson scored in double figures. I was impressed with his skill around the basket, it seemed like he was able to get to the basket with ease (although not all the shots fell). Brown did a good job limiting any second chance points, which is probably why Carson only finished with 19. I also thoug

    The Bombers absolutely shot the lights out, especially (and unsurprisingly) Burton. Also found myself impressed with the play of Marcus, who showed he can pull up or drive to the hoop.

    It will be interesting to see what Ithaca can do when their shots aren't falling from the outside because it seemed like they didn't want to take anything inside the arc (and a look at the boxscore shows 37 of their 72 shots were from three-point range,  which is more than 50 percent). If they aren't hitting, they better hope Bostic is 100 percent.

    Today's game also had me wondering if something else is going on behind the scenes at RIT. They've lost their last three and all four of their conference losses have come in their last five games (a span of 12 days). Outside of the loss to IC today, the others were versus 5th-place St. John Fisher (16-9 overall, 8-8 E8), 6th place Hartwick (13-12, 6-10) and 4th-place Nazareth (11-13, 8-7). Two weeks ago, the Tigers had the inside line on hosting, provided they could give the Bombers a game today. Now, they are the just one game ahead of 3rd-place Utica, which is on a hot, 7-game winning streak. This is a team that was cruising in the league, and now may not even be good enough to make it to the conference championship. It may be nothing more than the ball bouncing the other teams' way, but it seems like something has happened to take the wind out of their sails.

    Like any team dependent on the three point shot, if they aren't hitting, things can go south. The Alfred game, which was Ithaca's closest win, showed that vulnerability. I would venture to say however, that Ithaca's hot shooting from distance is probably the reason they took so many. They went 9-18 from three the first half, and so I don't think they saw the need to go inside as much. The return of Bostic will certainly help that, but a majority of the threes the Bombers took were uncontested. Ithaca did have success inside, shooting 19-35 from two. I think they wouldn't have had trouble adapting their game. Burton, for example, was 6-8 from two and could take it to the basket at will.

    As they enter the NCAA's, they will need to score inside. Just because RIT doesn't get out to defend perimeter shots, doesn't mean others will follow suit.

    As for RIT, they strike me as a team not very deep. Of the players off the bench, only Lowe did much of anything. The Bombers were shorthanded without Bostic and were still able to put up 101. Burton is the key to the offense, but on any given night Cruz, Leahy, Marcus or Rogers are all capable of carrying the team.

    Carson is a very good player. He has this nice little move where he pivots and goes for a leaning finger roll. He's also very good at altering shots, even if he doesn't block them all. Korinchak and Lowe also impressed me, although the Tigers don't move the ball very well. They had only 8 assists, whereas Ithaca had 19.

    The RIT behind the scenes theory is compelling, but I'm not entirely sure that's the case. If you look at their season, they have had a lot of close wins in conference. They've had five conference victories by four points or less, plus one more that went to overtime. The Bombers, by comparison, have only had two. Both teams have lost one conference game by three points. So really, maybe RIT just got those breaks to gut out those tough wins. Half of their losses have not been close (19, 14, 19, 27). I think they were playing over their heads a bit, and now, they've come back down to earth. Really, they're a few breaks away from 12-13. Sometimes, you have that kind of season, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    Additionally, I think the Bombers wanted to make a statement today. They've been waiting for this rematch for a chance to show that the first game was an aberration. For whatever reason, RIT didn't seem all that interested in showing that it wasn't. That was the most disappointing thing today. I'm sure the Tigers can rationalize it by saying, in the grand scheme of things, it didn't matter, but the truth is, the game didn't technically matter for the Bombers either, so to me, that says something about the make up of these two teams.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 23, 2009, 12:19:26 AM
    Bombers,
    Have to agree with all you said. Good analysis and observations about both teams. Plus k. Also Burton's performance today should lock up POY honors in the E8 and possibly the East region as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 23, 2009, 07:40:08 AM
    Take it from me, and I wish I were wrong...... RIT overachiecved this year, and the last 4-5 games showed that... That's the real Tigers...... I really thought they would be hardpressed to make the e-8 tourney before the season, look back at the posts. BUT this conference was down a bit this year. Last years 4 top teams were very strong.. IC, Stevens, Naz and Fisher compared to this years 4 entries...IC is better this year, UC is not  as good as Stevens was last year, NAZ is not as good as they were last year, and RIT is not as good as Fisher was last year.  NAZ underachieved all year ( I know, becuase they don't play defense,) BUT I think they were projected to be better than just about finishing 4th. UC did about what I expected and they are hot at the right time. IC was predicted the Class of the field and they were and are. For all intents and purposes they are undefeated as far as I am concerned. Fisher I believe overachieved at times ( albeit that home court helps them too much) Hartwick stepped up a bit this year....... Stevens was a total disappointment.... Too much talent to finish 7th....They should have been at the 4 spot. But without a point guard and experience down low...Alfred scared everybody no matter what their record, and Elmira was Elmira.......It will be IC and UC in the championship, with IC going on........ UC does not get a bid.......

    They WILL NOT overturn the CRUZ suspension, no matter what the first Tech was for.... They cannot set a precedent......The rule is the rule....... BUTTTTT what do I know ;) 

     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on February 23, 2009, 09:49:55 AM
    We seem to have lost our Utica following this year,  For a team that has gone 14-16 after 5 losses and now has 7 in a row, the Utica advocates on this board have been pretty quiet.  Perhaps that's in keeping with the teams style. 

    Admittedly, the two losses in that 16 game string were against Ithaca and RIT but the team has gotten more consistent and confident.  This team does not pick up as many easy transition points as it's recent predecessors and the "Munch" factor on defense is missing.  But they generally take care of the ball,  get good looks and choose shots wisely.  The combination of fewer easy shots, just adequate defense and a patient offense makes for close games. 

    To it's credit, Utica plays the last two minutes very well.  Good ball handling, a steal when they need it and they make their foul shots.  RIT or Ithaca do not want the game to be close coming down to the wire.

    Perhaps overlooked, is the level of talent, 1-8 on this team - I contend the best in the league.  Herring leads the scoring but the first 8 players can each put double figures on the board, and do.  Justin Maxwell is shooting over 50% from behind the arc on 60 attempts etc.  If Doug has an off night, someone else picks up the pace.  Goodman had 25 against Alfred. 

    So we're looking forward to next weekend.  If Utica steps up the D and keeps Carson and (we hope) Burton from going crazy,  they'll win both games. 






    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 23, 2009, 12:16:29 PM
    Quote from: reelentless on February 23, 2009, 09:49:55 AM
    We seem to have lost our Utica following this year,  For a team that has gone 14-16 after 5 losses and now has 7 in a row, the Utica advocates on this board have been pretty quiet.  Perhaps that's in keeping with the teams style. 

    Admittedly, the two losses in that 16 game string were against Ithaca and RIT but the team has gotten more consistent and confident.  This team does not pick up as many easy transition points as it's recent predecessors and the "Munch" factor on defense is missing.  But they generally take care of the ball,  get good looks and choose shots wisely.  The combination of fewer easy shots, just adequate defense and a patient offense makes for close games. 

    To it's credit, Utica plays the last two minutes very well.  Good ball handling, a steal when they need it and they make their foul shots.  RIT or Ithaca do not want the game to be close coming down to the wire.

    Perhaps overlooked, is the level of talent, 1-8 on this team - I contend the best in the league.  Herring leads the scoring but the first 8 players can each put double figures on the board, and do.  Justin Maxwell is shooting over 50% from behind the arc on 60 attempts etc.  If Doug has an off night, someone else picks up the pace.  Goodman had 25 against Alfred. 

    So we're looking forward to next weekend.  If Utica steps up the D and keeps Carson and (we hope) Burton from going crazy,  they'll win both games. 


    Re: The down to the wire part, it kind of depends. If Ithaca's leading late, and you have to foul them, good luck getting back in it. That's a game you don't want to play. The other problem is, nine of the Bombers 10 games at home this year have been won by double digits, so teams really haven't been able to stay close late in games.

    The E8 could use an upset on some level, although who knows if they'll get it
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 23, 2009, 01:12:44 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 23, 2009, 07:40:08 AM
    Take it from me, and I wish I were wrong...... RIT overachiecved this year, and the last 4-5 games showed that... That's the real Tigers...... I really thought they would be hardpressed to make the e-8 tourney before the season, look back at the posts. BUT this conference was down a bit this year. Last years 4 top teams were very strong.. IC, Stevens, Naz and Fisher compared to this years 4 entries...IC is better this year, UC is not  as good as Stevens was last year, NAZ is not as good as they were last year, and RIT is not as good as Fisher was last year.  NAZ underachieved all year ( I know, becuase they don't play defense,) BUT I think they were projected to be better than just about finishing 4th. UC did about what I expected and they are hot at the right time. IC was predicted the Class of the field and they were and are. For all intents and purposes they are undefeated as far as I am concerned. Fisher I believe overachieved at times ( albeit that home court helps them too much) Hartwick stepped up a bit this year....... Stevens was a total disappointment.... Too much talent to finish 7th....They should have been at the 4 spot. But without a point guard and experience down low...Alfred scared everybody no matter what their record, and Elmira was Elmira.......It will be IC and UC in the championship, with IC going on........ UC does not get a bid.......

    They WILL NOT overturn the CRUZ suspension, no matter what the first Tech was for.... They cannot set a precedent......The rule is the rule....... BUTTTTT what do I know ;) 

     

    Re: The Cruz suspension, the rule is the rule. I don't think Ithaca's looking for an exception for Cruz to play following two technicals in as much as they're saying that the first technical wasn't deserved. Technicals are pretty much a judgment call, especially when it comes to hanging on a rim. I didn't see the aftermath of the play, because it was at the other end of the floor, and people jumped up when he did it, but from the way it was described, Cruz dunked, looked down to be sure no-one was underneath him, and then let go. You are allowed to hang on the rim if it is a safety issue,

    I agree that you don't want to set a precedent, and I'm not sure how it works in college, but in the NBA, they review tapes and regarding flagrant fouls resulting in suspension. You also need to make people aware that referees are not infailable, that they make incorrect calls all the time (For proof, look at the LAST game these two teams played). Also remember, it's not a rule in all of basketball, it's a conference-specific rule. Part of that makes me think IC may not have much luck, as the E8 commissioner is big on sportsmanship, but you never know
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: MHoops on February 23, 2009, 06:09:27 PM
    The official times have been announced on the empire8.com site:

    http://www.empire8.com/MBasket-Over.shtml

    Men:

      2/28:   2pm  RIT vs. Utica
                  4pm Ithaca vs. (Nazareth / St. John Fisher)
      3/1:     1pm  Final

    Women:

      2/27:  6pm  Ithaca vs. St. John Fisher
                 8pm  Utica vs. Stevens
      2/28:  7pm  Final
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 23, 2009, 06:11:28 PM
    Here is a link to watch the Cruz alley oop dunk, wanted to post so everyone can see it and judge it for themselves.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mXBEUMK0qI
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 23, 2009, 06:44:16 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 23, 2009, 06:11:28 PM
    Here is a link to watch the Cruz alley oop dunk, wanted to post so everyone can see it and judge it for themselves.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mXBEUMK0qI

    From the replay, I will say that he did hang on the rim, but the whistle wasn't blown until AFTER the RIT coach went on the floor and said made the signal for a technical to the ref (Standing right by the RIT bench of course) after Cruz landed. Weak. If you're going to call it, call it because you think it's the right call, not because a coach made a scene a foot from you. The ref was staring at the play, but did nothing until the RIT coach went onto the floor (While we're at it, isn't THAT supposed to be a technical?)

    It certainly looked like Cruz hung on the rim, but the lateness of the call was inexcusable. Thankfully it didn't affect the game. Word on the suspension should be coming later today. The Ithaca Journal is working the phones...stay tuned
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 23, 2009, 06:49:30 PM
    I have to agree with Bombers on this one.  I watch it a couple times, and that really didn't look like a hang for safety.  It looked like he made a great play and hung there to show it off.  Not much, but enough for a tech given the rule.  Personally I don't agree with it, but the rule is what it is.


    However, I have to agree that the referee wasn't going to call that until he got reemed out.  And in that situation, he probably should have swallowed the whistle.  The hanging on the rim is supposed to be a judgment call, and if the referee initially didn't judge it to be tech worthy, then he should have stuck to his guns.  If I had to ref under the rules as they are (a little too strict i might add) I would have given him a tech as well, but right away. 


    As it happened, probably shouldn't have been blown, and the right thing to do would be to not suspend him.  Unfortunately, I don't think that'll be the case.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 23, 2009, 06:56:41 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 23, 2009, 06:49:30 PM
    I have to agree with Bombers on this one.  I watch it a couple times, and that really didn't look like a hang for safety.  It looked like he made a great play and hung there to show it off.  Not much, but enough for a tech given the rule.  Personally I don't agree with it, but the rule is what it is.


    However, I have to agree that the referee wasn't going to call that until he got reemed out.  And in that situation, he probably should have swallowed the whistle.  The hanging on the rim is supposed to be a judgment call, and if the referee initially didn't judge it to be tech worthy, then he should have stuck to his guns.  If I had to ref under the rules as they are (a little too strict i might add) I would have given him a tech as well, but right away. 


    As it happened, probably shouldn't have been blown, and the right thing to do would be to not suspend him.  Unfortunately, I don't think that'll be the case.

    The right thing to do would be to enforce a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the Ihtaca coach with the clipboard for excessive celebration.   To be assessed on the Bombers first kickoff of the '09 season
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 23, 2009, 06:57:13 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 23, 2009, 06:49:30 PM
    I have to agree with Bombers on this one.  I watch it a couple times, and that really didn't look like a hang for safety.  It looked like he made a great play and hung there to show it off.  Not much, but enough for a tech given the rule.  Personally I don't agree with it, but the rule is what it is.


    However, I have to agree that the referee wasn't going to call that until he got reemed out.  And in that situation, he probably should have swallowed the whistle.  The hanging on the rim is supposed to be a judgment call, and if the referee initially didn't judge it to be tech worthy, then he should have stuck to his guns.  If I had to ref under the rules as they are (a little too strict i might add) I would have given him a tech as well, but right away. 


    As it happened, probably shouldn't have been blown, and the right thing to do would be to not suspend him.  Unfortunately, I don't think that'll be the case.

    Also, notice the official directly under the rim didn't call it. The referees should really meet and discuss that instead of letting one official be influenced by a bench
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 23, 2009, 07:36:55 PM
    New D3Hoops Top 25 poll out and Ithaca gains 40 points and moves back into the #8 spot. No other team in the East gets a mention.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 23, 2009, 08:14:54 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 23, 2009, 06:44:16 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 23, 2009, 06:11:28 PM
    Here is a link to watch the Cruz alley oop dunk, wanted to post so everyone can see it and judge it for themselves.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mXBEUMK0qI

    From the replay, I will say that he did hang on the rim, but the whistle wasn't blown until AFTER the RIT coach went on the floor and said made the signal for a technical to the ref (Standing right by the RIT bench of course) after Cruz landed. Weak. If you're going to call it, call it because you think it's the right call, not because a coach made a scene a foot from you. The ref was staring at the play, but did nothing until the RIT coach went onto the floor (While we're at it, isn't THAT supposed to be a technical?)

    It certainly looked like Cruz hung on the rim, but the lateness of the call was inexcusable. Thankfully it didn't affect the game. Word on the suspension should be coming later today. The Ithaca Journal is working the phones...stay tuned

    Yeah, that was definitely technical-worthy. Not to mention an impressive dunk. I also cannot stand when the officials let the coaches/players make the calls for them, but that was certainly a technical.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 23, 2009, 08:41:33 PM
    Quote from: Michigan452 on February 20, 2009, 11:54:39 PM
    WOW cant believe that fisher-UC game.  One that will go down in the record books most likely, as this is the first time that fisher has not made the e8 tourney. These guys cannot hit a free throw.  Also fisher needs to focus on making better decisions in the clutch.  This can be attributed to bad preparation by the coaching staff.  Obviously fisher does not practice situational basketball at all.  I cant believe they blew this game.  Utica did play well down the stretch with good shooting and good decisions.  This shows how much Connelly has progressed in his coaching.  I am very excited to see Utica in the next 2 years.

    I would disagree with them not practicing situational basketball. Fisher has always been one of the better teams in the conference with games on the line. It would be interesting to go back and check out Fisher's record in games decided by 7 points or less in the last 6 years. I am guessing they have won a LOT more than they have lost in those games.

    I think this is just a season that got away from Fisher. The played a little over their head for a team with so much young talent, and some key losses finally caught up to them. I think ultimately, they finished with the record most expected of them, they just didn't space out the losses like we thought they would. They looked great at times this year, giving a pretty down fan base something to be hopeful for. Beating U of R, beating St. Mary's, and being 14-2 everything was rolling. I will be interested to see what Fisher does next year. I think they have the personnel to win a lot of games, and be back at the top of the conference next season. I know I am biased, but they really showed flashes of brilliance at times. But, a really bad nose dive, and the season seems like it was all bad.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 23, 2009, 08:43:03 PM
    By the way, I don't care if it was a technical or not, that Cruz dunk was filthy. That is probably the best dunk I have seen since that Lawrence Maroney dunk against RIT a few years back.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 23, 2009, 09:37:47 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 23, 2009, 08:41:33 PM
    Quote from: Michigan452 on February 20, 2009, 11:54:39 PM
    WOW cant believe that fisher-UC game.  One that will go down in the record books most likely, as this is the first time that fisher has not made the e8 tourney. These guys cannot hit a free throw.  Also fisher needs to focus on making better decisions in the clutch.  This can be attributed to bad preparation by the coaching staff.  Obviously fisher does not practice situational basketball at all.  I cant believe they blew this game.  Utica did play well down the stretch with good shooting and good decisions.  This shows how much Connelly has progressed in his coaching.  I am very excited to see Utica in the next 2 years.

    I would disagree with them not practicing situational basketball. Fisher has always been one of the better teams in the conference with games on the line. It would be interesting to go back and check out Fisher's record in games decided by 7 points or less in the last 6 years. I am guessing they have won a LOT more than they have lost in those games.

    I think this is just a season that got away from Fisher. The played a little over their head for a team with so much young talent, and some key losses finally caught up to them. I think ultimately, they finished with the record most expected of them, they just didn't space out the losses like we thought they would. They looked great at times this year, giving a pretty down fan base something to be hopeful for. Beating U of R, beating St. Mary's, and being 14-2 everything was rolling. I will be interested to see what Fisher does next year. I think they have the personnel to win a lot of games, and be back at the top of the conference next season. I know I am biased, but they really showed flashes of brilliance at times. But, a really bad nose dive, and the season seems like it was all bad.

    During the telecast of some college game on ESPN the other day, the commentator said he believed that during the course of a 30 game season a team will overachieve 5 times, underachieve 5 times, and play to their normal level the remaining 20 times. So I guess in a d-3, 25 game schedule you could say teams overachieve and underachieve 4-5 times, and play to their normal level 15-17 times.

    Judging from that, I would assume Fisher overachieved the St. Mary's game, UR game, and maybe 2 others (can't think of them now) and underachieved the Alfred game and a few others.

    There is no doubt the team is talented and I think will be one of the top contenders in the conference next season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 23, 2009, 10:11:50 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 23, 2009, 09:37:47 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 23, 2009, 08:41:33 PM
    Quote from: Michigan452 on February 20, 2009, 11:54:39 PM

    WOW cant believe that fisher-UC game.  One that will go down in the record books most likely, as this is the first time that fisher has not made the e8 tourney. These guys cannot hit a free throw.  Also fisher needs to focus on making better decisions in the clutch.  This can be attributed to bad preparation by the coaching staff.  Obviously fisher does not practice situational basketball at all.  I cant believe they blew this game.  Utica did play well down the stretch with good shooting and good decisions.  This shows how much Connelly has progressed in his coaching.  I am very excited to see Utica in the next 2 years.

    I would disagree with them not practicing situational basketball. Fisher has always been one of the better teams in the conference with games on the line. It would be interesting to go back and check out Fisher's record in games decided by 7 points or less in the last 6 years. I am guessing they have won a LOT more than they have lost in those games.

    I think this is just a season that got away from Fisher. The played a little over their head for a team with so much young talent, and some key losses finally caught up to them. I think ultimately, they finished with the record most expected of them, they just didn't space out the losses like we thought they would. They looked great at times this year, giving a pretty down fan base something to be hopeful for. Beating U of R, beating St. Mary's, and being 14-2 everything was rolling. I will be interested to see what Fisher does next year. I think they have the personnel to win a lot of games, and be back at the top of the conference next season. I know I am biased, but they really showed flashes of brilliance at times. But, a really bad nose dive, and the season seems like it was all bad.

    During the telecast of some college game on ESPN the other day, the commentator said he believed that during the course of a 30 game season a team will overachieve 5 times, underachieve 5 times, and play to their normal level the remaining 20 times. So I guess in a d-3, 25 game schedule you could say teams overachieve and underachieve 4-5 times, and play to their normal level 15-17 times.

    Judging from that, I would assume Fisher overachieved the St. Mary's game, UR game, and maybe 2 others (can't think of them now) and underachieved the Alfred game and a few others.

    There is no doubt the team is talented and I think will be one of the top contenders in the conference next season.

    I was watching that game as well. I have thought about it for a good ten minutes and can't think of the game. I watch every UCONN game but can't remember if it was them or not. I also agree with the idea.

    Quote from: sjfcards on February 23, 2009, 08:43:03 PM
    By the way, I don't care if it was a technical or not, that Cruz dunk was filthy. That is probably the best dunk I have seen since that Lawrence Maroney dunk against RIT a few years back.

    The dunk is one of the best I have seen in a while too. Last one I can remember was Jason Boone of NYU dunking on Dan McSweeney during the 2006 Empire State Games in RIT's gym. If someone got dunked on by Cruz it would have been awesome.

    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 23, 2009, 08:14:54 PM

    Yeah, that was definitely technical-worthy. Not to mention an impressive dunk. I also cannot stand when the officials let the coaches/players make the calls for them, but that was certainly a technical.


    I did not see the dunk live as the ICTV site link from the Bombers web page wasn't working for me. I do agree he did hang on the rim and no one was under him, just a tad too long and thats why he got the Tech. From the guy I talked to who works at the scorers table for IC, McVean was not yelling at the refs for a tech, but was yelling at them for timeout. I agree he is looking at them and calling for a timeout. I believe he is mad but at his team not the refs. I don't think he was fishing for the technical and thats what I have been told by the scorers table who is right there front row view.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 23, 2009, 11:46:53 PM
    Bombers--

    I guess the sign for technical and time out look similar. However, 2-3 seconds elapse from the dunk to the technical and it was called by a trailing official. There's got to be a reason that the officials in better position to see the play didn't call it. Word is, the suspension was overturned and Cruz will play.

    Something else you can see if you look at ICTV's slow mo replay: Someone (#50) gave Cruz a little push as he was hanging from the rim. That may be another reason it was overturned
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 23, 2009, 11:59:48 PM
    Yup, they are very very similar. I was about to post and then it said you had posted while I was typing. But I agree with you Bombers79Etc. about it being overturned.

    I'm not in Ithaca and have not talked to anyone up there since about 6:30 but I do believe it should and will be overturned. I know Cruz, he is a good kid and I don't think he meant to show-up RIT. He may have been bumped. However I know, if i caught an alley oop, versus the only team that beat me, and my gym was packed, I may have been excited and hung on the rim for a second longer. He didn't hang up there and point or hang up there and yell. I did have a few dunks in Ben Light in my days a Bomber but none nearly as great as that one. If the suspension is not over turned I would be shocked!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2009, 01:21:44 AM
    I'm gonna throw my oar in here, I don't think that was worthy of a technical at all.  Cruz dunks and is facing away from the court when the ball goes through, rather than land and turn around to run downcourt, he just lets his momentum spin him around until he's facing the right way then drops and runs.  That doesn't look like taunting or showboating in that clip in the least to me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 24, 2009, 07:22:00 AM
    My turn........ Whether it should have been called or not, it was, so it is a technical. Let's assume it was bad call, it isn't the first and won't be the last. If they review it and overturn it, they why shouldn't they review other questionable calls.......  I know that's rediculous BUT what if the free throws made were important to the outcome of the game... do they get overturned, or is it oveturned because the Free throw mean tnothing.  Look, I want to see the kid play and of course I too believe there was no malice intended...BUT that's why there are ref's and unfortunatley, they make many mistakes as do the players and coaches and fans and Bloggers, it's all part of the game.   If was going to be overturned it should have been at the time of the incident after all 3 officials met... which they didn't.... it has to stand...BUT what do I know ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2009, 09:29:42 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 24, 2009, 07:22:00 AM
    My turn........ Whether it should have been called or not, it was, so it is a technical. Let's assume it was bad call, it isn't the first and won't be the last. If they review it and overturn it, they why shouldn't they review other questionable calls.......  I know that's rediculous BUT what if the free throws made were important to the outcome of the game... do they get overturned, or is it oveturned because the Free throw mean tnothing.  Look, I want to see the kid play and of course I too believe there was no malice intended...BUT that's why there are ref's and unfortunatley, they make many mistakes as do the players and coaches and fans and Bloggers, it's all part of the game.   If was going to be overturned it should have been at the time of the incident after all 3 officials met... which they didn't.... it has to stand...BUT what do I know ;) 

    I think you have a point, regarding the "Well, if you overturn one, don't you have to overturn more?" but professional leagues look at plays involving suspensions all the time. It's one thing to say, "Look, it was a bad technical, but it was only two points, and you had 80 possessions to make up those points," but when bad calls result in players suspensions, that's a completely different argument.

    Suspensions of any kind are serious, and should only be handed out to players who deserve them. Ithaca knows better than other teams in the E8 that when referees get a call wrong it can affect you on the scoreboard. That's sort of what you expect to have happen anytime a game with referees is played. But incorrect calls resulting in player suspensions are not. When it comes to things like that, referees need to be sure. As Clarence Thomas said regarding, shall we say, adult material, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it." This referee clearly didn't know, which is why he took forever to make the call.

    Additionally, there's been some discussion as to whether or not the RIT coach was signaling for a timeout or harping for a technical. For what it's worth, RIT wasn't credited with taking one at that juncture according to the game log. As someone who helped track them during a few harrowing days in 2007, I can tell you, sometimes we miss stuff like assists and such, but I find it hard to believe a timeout would miss our eyes. I know a poster said he was right on press row, and heard it was about a timeout, but that's where Mike Warwick (Ithaca's SID) was sitting as well. Lord knows I screwed up more live stats than a human being has a right to, but Mike could do this stuff in his sleep. If it was a timeout, he'd have logged it.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on February 24, 2009, 09:53:33 AM
    Just watched the video of the dunk and it seems to be a borderline call but the call was made so there is nothing that can be done at that point.

    Regarding the suspension, I think the discussion on whether to rescind the one game ban is ridiculous. Whether the first technical was a weak one or not (weak T's get called all the time), Cruz was still dumb enough to get himself a second technical and get thrown out. Not sure when that technical happened but if IC was up big, why even have him in the game with one technical?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2009, 09:55:46 AM
    The suspension was for 2 technicals, correct?  What was the other T for?  And in which order were they assessed?  If the hnging on the rim was the first, he should remain suspended for being stupid enough to pick up a second T.  If it came second, I could see some wiggle room.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 24, 2009, 10:02:46 AM
    I don't think the Cruz dunk warranted a technical, but they called it, so you have to live for it. If anything, they should have called a T on the Ithaca coach (with the clipboard) who came off the bench and was chest bumping players (I think it was Brown) before scurrying back to the bench. Also, it looked like McVean was signaling for a timeout, not a tech. And the officials may not have realized that's what he was signaling for (especially after calling the technical), and McVean may not have wanted to waste a timeout at that point, given that his team was going to shoot two and get the ball, so he didn't belabor the point.

    Just my two cents.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 24, 2009, 10:03:25 AM
    Tiger Fan makes an excellent point....... With one on you why get the second one. The one that is costing the kid is the second "T", Unless I'm missing something the rim was the first one NO?.... an as Tiger Fan said, there are weak "T's" all the time. I feel bad for the kid, but hey a good learning experience and I really don't think it will affect the outcome.  As far as whether the coach was calling a timeout OR for the "T", it doesn't matter. Coaches are supposed work ref's, let's not put th focus on the coach, this is his job.....REALLY what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2009, 11:28:25 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 24, 2009, 10:03:25 AM
    Tiger Fan makes an excellent point....... With one on you why get the second one. The one that is costing the kid is the second "T", Unless I'm missing something the rim was the first one NO?.... an as Tiger Fan said, there are weak "T's" all the time. I feel bad for the kid, but hey a good learning experience and I really don't think it will affect the outcome.  As far as whether the coach was calling a timeout OR for the "T", it doesn't matter. Coaches are supposed work ref's, let's not put th focus on the coach, this is his job.....REALLY what do I know ;)

    The problem with Tiger Fan's point is that it assumes judgment calls by officials cannot be overturned by the league. What people do not understand is this is not true. That's why Cruz's suspension was overturned

    "Normally, two technicals result in an automatic one-game suspension in the Empire 8. But a ruling by the commissioner's office Monday overrode that bylaw, citing that the rule wasn't intended to include such non-flagrant judgment calls like the first technical, Smith said."

    So what you have is an official rule that is not steadfast in just accepting the possible mistakes of officials.

    This review process is not specific to the NCAA either...

    "But in the previous game against the Bulls in Chicago, official Ken Mauer hit Mutombo with a technical foul, though Mutombo turned toward the United Center crowd and away from other players. Mauer even warned he would make the same ruling that night if Mutombo did it again.

    But the NBA will rescind the technical foul, according to spokesman Tim Frank, who added that this season's "respect the game" emphasis did not make the finger-waving a technical foul, unless Mutombo directs it at an opponent"

    NBA teams commonly send tapes of technicals asking them to be rescinded.

    In the NHL; "A player or goalkeeper who is deemed to be the instigator of an altercation in the final five (5) minutes of regulation time or at anytime in overtime, shall automatically be suspended for one game. The Director of Hockey Operations will review every such incident and may rescind the suspension based on a number of criteria."

    Leagues do review fouls and penalties that result in suspensions. We all have a different view on whether the dunk was technical-worthy, and we can agree to disagree there. But the logic that "Bad calls happen, there's nothing you can do about" just isn't true for these types of calls. For standard calls, yes we do accept the officials call. That's why Korinchak's shot counted last time. But for things that can result in suspensions etc. that's not true. There's a reason leagues have appeal processes for things like this. So quit acting like Ithaca should be forced to accept the decision.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on February 24, 2009, 12:37:14 PM
    I guess I'm not suprised that the suspension was overturned but I still don't really agree with it. Regardless of what the technicals were for, if you're stupid enough to get 2 then shame on you, sit a game.

    The second technical came with 7:04 to go in the second half and IC up 20. That's not exactly "empty the bench" time, but if you have a starter with a technical and you're up 20 at that point, why is that player in the game? ESPECIALLY with the conference tourney coming up, why risk it?

    Cruz was stupid to pick up the second technical and Mullins was stupid for leaving him in the game and they got bailed out by a commisioner's office that made a judgement call about a judgement call. Not every commissioner would make that decision so IC should consider themselves lucky.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 24, 2009, 12:40:07 PM
    Bomber, your misunderstanding me when you say Ithaca should not be forced to accept the decision..... This has nothing to do with who and what teams are involved.   IF the rule was not intended to include .... so on so on, then it should be written as such...  Rules are not made to be debated.  If the E-* puts a disclaimer on it's rules then it should do so in writing where the rules are written.... I can't help it. I'm an engineer so I certainly have blinders and everthing is black and white to me..... got me in trouble much of my life..... BUT I just don't understand how there is s rule but "not necessarily a rule"     I agree to disagree......... Bottom line is the kid gets to play ( if in fact the rule was overturned) that works for him and no one gets hurt............ that much I know........
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2009, 12:49:34 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 24, 2009, 12:40:07 PM
    Bomber, your misunderstanding me when you say Ithaca should not be forced to accept the decision..... This has nothing to do with who and what teams are involved.   IF the rule was not intended to include .... so on so on, then it should be written as such...  Rules are not made to be debated.  If the E-* puts a disclaimer on it's rules then it should do so in writing where the rules are written.... I can't help it. I'm an engineer so I certainly have blinders and everthing is black and white to me..... got me in trouble much of my life..... BUT I just don't understand how there is s rule but "not necessarily a rule"     I agree to disagree......... Bottom line is the kid gets to play ( if in fact the rule was overturned) that works for him and no one gets hurt............ that much I know........

    Fromafar--

    No, no I don't think you;re calling for Ithaca to just accept it, and you raise an interesting point on rules being subject for debate. Part of the problem though, is that it's impossible to know all the scenarios that will arise that will fall under the jurisdiction of the rule, so often times, rules don't specify how every situation should be handled. This is a fault of rule-makers, but it's also why they allow for reviews. There are probably dozens of things you could get a T for, but you can't come up with them all, because every official is different. So you come up with a more general rule, and if individual situations come up that people want clarification on, you allow for that.

    The E8 gave a strange ruling in the case. They essentially said, the technical stands, but the suspension does not because of the "type" of technical it was. And that seems a little odd to me. I agree that it's in bad practice for a league to do that. I honestly expected the conference to simply say the first technical wasn't warranted. But, let's remember something: The NBA has something similar. They have two different flagrant fouls, and of course, the flagrant foul is a variant on a personal foul. So essentially, the league has three categories of severity regarding fouls, each with a distinct level of punishment.

    Tiger--

    Yes, Cruz needed to be smarter and not pick up that second technical. And that's on him. But I don't know if Mullins should be chastised too hard for leaving him in there. 20 points is a lot, but so is 7 minutes. Just as one example, against St. Lawrence, the Bombers had a 17 point lead with 15:01 to go. With 12:10 to go, it was down to five, thanks to a 12-0 run. Things change pretty quickly in Basketball and you don't want to relax too quickly. I do agree that Cruz needed to play with more control however
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 24, 2009, 01:22:09 PM
    Well put Bombers, I will only disagree with one point, Officials are always the same at Fisher for some reason......... easy Dynasty just a little jab.... didn't mean to hit when you are down........... 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on February 24, 2009, 01:50:35 PM
    QuoteYes, Cruz needed to be smarter and not pick up that second technical. And that's on him. But I don't know if Mullins should be chastised too hard for leaving him in there. 20 points is a lot, but so is 7 minutes. Just as one example, against St. Lawrence, the Bombers had a 17 point lead with 15:01 to go. With 12:10 to go, it was down to five, thanks to a 12-0 run. Things change pretty quickly in Basketball and you don't want to relax too quickly. I do agree that Cruz needed to play with more control however

    Bombers,
    I mentioned that the 7 minute mark is not "empty the bench" time as I agree with you that a lot can happen in that time or less than that. My point was not that you need to clear the bench but you take out that 1 guy so he avoids a possible second technical. IC up 20 at home against a team that, by all accounts I've seen, was not playing well should not need to have Cruz in the game. In my opinion thats poor game management by Mullins, take it for what its worth.

    You see coaches pull players out of games in the first half with 2 fouls just so they don't do something dumb and pick up a 3rd, why not take a key player out with 7 minutes left and the game in control to make sure he doesn't do anything dumb? And with Bostic already out until the NCAA's why even risk losing Cruz at that point since you are already down one starter.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 24, 2009, 02:04:18 PM
    Tiger -


    I certainly understand your point.  I think part of that depends on the kid.  I don't know enough about Cruz to know whether his emotions get the best of him often or not.  If he had a Rasheed Wallace like make up, then I agree that Mullins should have pulled him, gone with Burton and Co., probably would have still won the game, and if at the 4 minute mark he didn't like how things were going, he could have put him back in.  (I know, you risk momentum and etc., but if you were going to lose that game in a 3 minute stretch without Cruz you didn't deserve it.)


    However, if Cruz is usually a quiet kid or one that keeps his head about him, then I don't see anything wrong with letting him play up to the 4 minute mark, maintaining your 20 point lead if not pushing it further, and then emptying the bench and walking home with the W.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2009, 02:30:23 PM
    Quote from: tigerfan2 on February 24, 2009, 01:50:35 PM
    QuoteYes, Cruz needed to be smarter and not pick up that second technical. And that's on him. But I don't know if Mullins should be chastised too hard for leaving him in there. 20 points is a lot, but so is 7 minutes. Just as one example, against St. Lawrence, the Bombers had a 17 point lead with 15:01 to go. With 12:10 to go, it was down to five, thanks to a 12-0 run. Things change pretty quickly in Basketball and you don't want to relax too quickly. I do agree that Cruz needed to play with more control however

    Bombers,
    I mentioned that the 7 minute mark is not "empty the bench" time as I agree with you that a lot can happen in that time or less than that. My point was not that you need to clear the bench but you take out that 1 guy so he avoids a possible second technical. IC up 20 at home against a team that, by all accounts I've seen, was not playing well should not need to have Cruz in the game. In my opinion thats poor game management by Mullins, take it for what its worth.

    You see coaches pull players out of games in the first half with 2 fouls just so they don't do something dumb and pick up a 3rd, why not take a key player out with 7 minutes left and the game in control to make sure he doesn't do anything dumb? And with Bostic already out until the NCAA's why even risk losing Cruz at that point since you are already down one starter.

    I agree to a degree, but the comparison of to personal fouls and technicals is a poor one. Personal fouls are expected, dozens get called every single game. You pull a kid with two quick fouls to delay when the third one happens, not to prevent it from happening. It's not like you can say, "Well, Cruz is probably going to toss a basketball at some kid after a whistle." I think that's only the 2nd game all season IC's been in where there was a technical called. You don't see technicals coming because frankly, what you can get a technical for is ill-defined. For example, stepping out on the court to berate a ref isn't allowed, but I guess they were letting it slide on Sunday, no?   

    Besides, that first technical came so early, if you adopt the "You have to pull him to guard against another one" strategy, he's not playing at all. 

    I think the bigger mistake was someone not pulling Cruz over on the sidelines and saying "Ok, Chris, that first call we don't agree with, but the fact is, if you pick up another one, you'll get suspended, and we can't risk that. So you need to stay cool for the next 39 minutes." To me, that's the failure of the coaching
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on February 24, 2009, 03:20:43 PM
    IMO...
    Cruz should not have gotten a T and the RIT coach was calling timeout.  None was recorded because he probably withdrew it once the T was called because he got the stoppage of play he wanted without wasting a TO.  As far as revoking the suspension, I think it is justifiable, but I am surprised they did it because it opens a big can of worms for future appeals.  Also, the IC assistant was out of line going on the floor and chestbumping and deserved a T more than Cruz did!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2009, 03:37:15 PM
    Quote from: TheNextLevel on February 24, 2009, 03:20:43 PM
    IMO...
    Cruz should not have gotten a T and the RIT coach was calling timeout.  None was recorded because he probably withdrew it once the T was called because he got the stoppage of play he wanted without wasting a TO.  As far as revoking the suspension, I think it is justifiable, but I am surprised they did it because it opens a big can of worms for future appeals.  Also, the IC assistant was out of line going on the floor and chestbumping and deserved a T more than Cruz did!

    I think the trail official was waiting for the guy under the basket to make the call and when he didn't, blew the whistle.  I've seen it quite a bit upstate and sometimes it seems to be a function of the particular ref.  Some like to make calls that provoke reaction and others don't.  Overall I have to say after two years of watching Rochester area officials, I thought they'd be bettter. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2009, 04:14:01 PM
    Quote from: TheNextLevel on February 24, 2009, 03:20:43 PM
    IMO...
    Cruz should not have gotten a T and the RIT coach was calling timeout.  None was recorded because he probably withdrew it once the T was called because he got the stoppage of play he wanted without wasting a TO.  As far as revoking the suspension, I think it is justifiable, but I am surprised they did it because it opens a big can of worms for future appeals.  Also, the IC assistant was out of line going on the floor and chestbumping and deserved a T more than Cruz did!

    But if there was a stoppage of play, isn't he allowed on the court then? I don't know the rules
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2009, 04:17:00 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2009, 03:37:15 PM
    Quote from: TheNextLevel on February 24, 2009, 03:20:43 PM
    IMO...
    Cruz should not have gotten a T and the RIT coach was calling timeout.  None was recorded because he probably withdrew it once the T was called because he got the stoppage of play he wanted without wasting a TO.  As far as revoking the suspension, I think it is justifiable, but I am surprised they did it because it opens a big can of worms for future appeals.  Also, the IC assistant was out of line going on the floor and chestbumping and deserved a T more than Cruz did!

    I think the trail official was waiting for the guy under the basket to make the call and when he didn't, blew the whistle.  I've seen it quite a bit upstate and sometimes it seems to be a function of the particular ref.  Some like to make calls that provoke reaction and others don't.  Overall I have to say after two years of watching Rochester area officials, I thought they'd be bettter. 


    That's sort of telling in itself "Well, I guess the two guys in better position than me didn't think it was worth a T, so I better call it for them"?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 24, 2009, 04:54:50 PM
    I really hope you guys get onto a fourth page of discussion of that technical.  That would truly be something.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 24, 2009, 08:33:27 PM
    Quote from: bamm on February 24, 2009, 04:54:50 PM
    I really hope you guys get onto a fourth page of discussion of that technical.  That would truly be something.

    Plus k
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2009, 08:40:04 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 24, 2009, 08:33:27 PM
    Quote from: bamm on February 24, 2009, 04:54:50 PM
    I really hope you guys get onto a fourth page of discussion of that technical.  That would truly be something.

    Plus k
    I thought that it was a technical.  Didn't you, magicman?

    Which game will he miss?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 24, 2009, 09:09:56 PM
    Nazareth leading Elmira 66-55 with 10:30 to go in the game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 24, 2009, 09:22:14 PM
    Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2009, 08:40:04 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 24, 2009, 08:33:27 PM
    Quote from: bamm on February 24, 2009, 04:54:50 PM
    I really hope you guys get onto a fourth page of discussion of that technical.  That would truly be something.

    Plus k
    I thought that it was a technical.  Didn't you, magicman?

    Which game will he miss?

    Ralph,

    I can't fault the ref for calling it. However, The E8 commissioner, has lifted the suspension. Here's a quote from Bomber798891's post on page 435 of this board.

    "Normally, two technicals result in an automatic one-game suspension in the Empire 8. But a ruling by the commissioner's office Monday overrode that bylaw, citing that the rule wasn't intended to include such non-flagrant judgment calls like the first technical, Smith said."

    I think the E8 commisioner was looking out for 1 of his teams and didn't want to risk an Ithaca loss in the E8 tourney. Their big man, Bostic, is out until the NCAA tournament and losing another key player might jeopardize their chances of getting an NCAA 1st round bye and/or hosting a second round pod if they lose in the 1st round of the E8 playoffs.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 24, 2009, 09:35:37 PM
    Nazareth claims the final playoff spot downing Elmira 88-78.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2009, 09:51:47 PM
    Thanks magicman.

    I can see the ruling upon review of the tape.  It is not flagrant.  He could have hurt someone on his "dismount".   But he is still hanging.

    I am happy with that.  The reward for RIT was the chance to shoot the fouls.  The foul shots could neutralize the dunk, and RIT got to the bonus quicker.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2009, 11:32:54 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 24, 2009, 09:22:14 PM
    Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2009, 08:40:04 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 24, 2009, 08:33:27 PM
    Quote from: bamm on February 24, 2009, 04:54:50 PM
    I really hope you guys get onto a fourth page of discussion of that technical.  That would truly be something.

    Plus k
    I thought that it was a technical.  Didn't you, magicman?

    Which game will he miss?

    Ralph,

    I can't fault the ref for calling it. However, The E8 commissioner, has lifted the suspension. Here's a quote from Bomber798891's post on page 435 of this board.

    "Normally, two technicals result in an automatic one-game suspension in the Empire 8. But a ruling by the commissioner's office Monday overrode that bylaw, citing that the rule wasn't intended to include such non-flagrant judgment calls like the first technical, Smith said."

    I think the E8 commisioner was looking out for 1 of his teams and didn't want to risk an Ithaca loss in the E8 tourney. Their big man, Bostic, is out until the NCAA tournament and losing another key player might jeopardize their chances of getting an NCAA 1st round bye and/or hosting a second round pod if they lose in the 1st round of the E8 playoffs.

    I don't know if I'd go that far for two reasons.

    (1) I'm not sure Naz could hang with Ithaca even if Bostic and Cruz were out, though it would be closer. Cruz had 10 points in the game they played without Bostic against Naz. He only played 20 minutes though and believe it or not was the FIFTH leading scorer for Ithaca in that game.

    Burton (32)
    Marcus (25)
    Leahy (18)
    Rogers (15)

    It's worth pointing out those four guys outscored Naz's entire team in the game. So while Cruz is important, it's not like Ithaca didn't doesn't have other options.

    (2) If I'm the Empire 8, don't I NOT want the Bombers to win the Tournament? I mean, if they win it, all you've got is one team in. Doesn't a Bomber upset simply allow for two teams to make the Tournament, which might be better for the league anyway?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 25, 2009, 03:01:17 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2009, 11:32:54 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 24, 2009, 09:22:14 PM
    Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2009, 08:40:04 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 24, 2009, 08:33:27 PM
    Quote from: bamm on February 24, 2009, 04:54:50 PM
    I really hope you guys get onto a fourth page of discussion of that technical.  That would truly be something.

    Plus k
    I thought that it was a technical.  Didn't you, magicman?

    Which game will he miss?

    Ralph,

    I can't fault the ref for calling it. However, The E8 commissioner, has lifted the suspension. Here's a quote from Bomber798891's post on page 435 of this board.

    "Normally, two technicals result in an automatic one-game suspension in the Empire 8. But a ruling by the commissioner's office Monday overrode that bylaw, citing that the rule wasn't intended to include such non-flagrant judgment calls like the first technical, Smith said."

    I think the E8 commisioner was looking out for 1 of his teams and didn't want to risk an Ithaca loss in the E8 tourney. Their big man, Bostic, is out until the NCAA tournament and losing another key player might jeopardize their chances of getting an NCAA 1st round bye and/or hosting a second round pod if they lose in the 1st round of the E8 playoffs.

    I don't know if I'd go that far for two reasons.

    (1) I'm not sure Naz could hang with Ithaca even if Bostic and Cruz were out, though it would be closer. Cruz had 10 points in the game they played without Bostic against Naz. He only played 20 minutes though and believe it or not was the FIFTH leading scorer for Ithaca in that game.

    Burton (32)
    Marcus (25)
    Leahy (18)
    Rogers (15)

    It's worth pointing out those four guys outscored Naz's entire team in the game. So while Cruz is important, it's not like Ithaca didn't doesn't have other options.

    (2) If I'm the Empire 8, don't I NOT want the Bombers to win the Tournament? I mean, if they win it, all you've got is one team in. Doesn't a Bomber upset simply allow for two teams to make the Tournament, which might be better for the league anyway?

    Bombers,
    I was actually jesting when I made that statement and meant to add a smiley grin but forgot to do so as I was posting to several boards at about the same time.

    However in response to your 2 statements.
    #1. Yes Ithaca has handled Naz rather easily both times this year and would, in all liklihood, beat them without Bostic and Cruz. No argument there.

    #2. If I had a choice of:  (a.) 2 teams from the conference get into the NCAA's, only because the top seeded, #8 team in the country with a 24-1 record (2nd best in the country) gets upset in the 1st round of their conference tournament by a team that wouldn't otherwise get a bid and they both get sent on the road or: (b) Have 1 team from the conference, the Regular season and Tournament champs with a 26-1 record (maybe by then the best record in the country) who gets a 1st round bye and then host a 2nd round game that if they win, will get a 4 team Regional and possibly a trip to the Final Four. I know which one I would choose. 

    Last year that exact same scenario played out in Plattsburgh. After Brockport lost their last regular season game and then got beat in the semifinals of the SUNYAC tournament, their chances of getting an at large bid (which were very good prior to those losses) fell by the wayside. I was hoping that Plattsburgh and Brockport would both get bids, great for the SUNYAC's. If Port had lost to Plattsburgh in the tournament final they most likely would have been in, and Pburgh suffers no setback in their quest to host. When Port got handily beaten by Oswego in the semis they were done and now the only way 2 SUNYAC teams get in, is if Oswego gets the automatic qualifier by beating Pburgh. I rooted against Oswego that night with everything I had. We got the bye, the 2nd round game, and the Regionals and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. It was the first time in school history for basketball (we get hockey final fours more frequently) and probably won't happen again in my lifetime. The E8 commissioner may not care as much about the hosting thing as I did, and as I'm sure, most Bomber fans do. Then again maybe he does. But as Yoda says his :-X are. :D 
       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 25, 2009, 08:57:00 AM
    Magic, I really am trying to stay out of this one, but you mentioned the Commissioner is looking out for one of his teams etc. I don't want to believe a ruling is changed for any other reason than the rule itself is mis-interpreted. Once the reasoning is how it affects teams there is a huge problem..........
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 25, 2009, 09:30:35 AM
    I really believe that it was overturned because the spirit of the rule was not to suspend players for all tech's.  I think the suspension was for techs resulting from consistent showboating, fighting, arguing with referee's, etc.


    Here, I think Cruz got the suspension overturned because there was a controversy over whether the first tech should have been called.  However, say Cruz's 2nd tech had also been for hanging on the rim, I think the suspension would have been upheld.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 25, 2009, 10:29:55 AM
    Cyclone let's go with your reasoning, you feel the suspension was reversed because of controversey over whether the first tech should have been called. Then you say had the second tech been for hanging on the rim it would have stood....  (I know your only playing it out......)  What if the first one was deemed it shouldn't have been called, but the second one should have... Then it still should be reversed......You see I am trying to establish the fact that the REF's calls are basically subjective ALL THE TIME..... ;D maybe not ALL...  but many times..... therefore overturning calls could get out of hand.............what the heck do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 25, 2009, 11:36:43 AM
    I see what you're saying.  My reasoning for thinking if both techs had been for hanging on the rim that it would have stood, regardless of whether the first one was "controversial" is because, if you get a second tech for hanging on the rim, chances are you hung on purpose the first time.  Plus, it looks a lot worse to get two of them.  That's why i don't think there would have been as many questions about it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 25, 2009, 12:59:09 PM
    OK........ we can put  TECHGATE to file...............  my Predictions......for the E-8

    Womens........

    IC- 59
    Fisher- 69

    UC- 58
    Stevens- 65

    Fisher- 52
    Stevens - 72

    Dani Dudek Stevens Point guard  MVP......



    MENS

    IC-  94
    NAZ-  79

    RIT-  76
    UC-  81


    IC-  84
    UC- 70

    MVP--- Cruz............. Just kidding............  BURTON MVP................


    I included the woman because I have seen RIT and some Stevens games along the way. The point guard for Stevens Dudek is the best womens point guard I think I have ever seen. Look at her numbers, and if you can see her you'll agree....... They are very disciplined and if they make their foul shots... must be a Stevemns thing.... they can win the Tourney...

    IC is unstoppable onn the mens, side. If we didn't catch a break on the late 3.... ( who knows about O.T.) they could be undefeated and ranked MAYBE 2....what in the world do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 25, 2009, 01:27:28 PM
    At the risk of sounding like a complete jackass, I must say Fromafar, you mean division 3 point guard correct??


    Because Sue Bird and Kara Lawson, just to start, were just a little *sarcasm* better than dudek.  In fact, Dudek isn't the best point guard from her own state  (Cappie Poindexter and/or Epiphany Prince from Rutgers are much much better players.)



    As always, you have to take numbers in context.  She's not exactly playing against elite competition.  I've seen her play 4 times in the past year (first games of double headers) and she is very talented...but best ever may be a stretch unless we're limiting to division 3.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 25, 2009, 02:28:00 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 25, 2009, 01:27:28 PM
    At the risk of sounding like a complete jackass, I must say Fromafar, you mean division 3 point guard correct??


    Because Sue Bird and Kara Lawson, just to start, were just a little *sarcasm* better than dudek.  In fact, Dudek isn't the best point guard from her own state  (Cappie Poindexter and/or Epiphany Prince from Rutgers are much much better players.)



    As always, you have to take numbers in context.  She's not exactly playing against elite competition.  I've seen her play 4 times in the past year (first games of double headers) and she is very talented...but best ever may be a stretch unless we're limiting to division 3.

    Have to say she was the best women's AAU player I ever saw or coached against.   We played her team 6 years ago in a tournament and if I hadn't been coaching, I might have enjoyed the game tremendously.  As it was, we lost by 23 but it wasn't that close.  Actually during one sequence of two trips up and down the floor, we had 6 girls on the floor (somebody forgot they were subbed for during a timeout) and we couldn't stop them.  Refs never noticed, giving you an idea of the pace of the game.  I am not proud of it, but I made Ms. Prince cry, or at least caused her to cry.  She was bring the ball up against one of our less talented players and pulled an "and1" move, dribbling the ball off the girls forehead, never breaking stride.  I flipped out on her coach, who in turn removed her from the game and made her apologize to both myself and the girl after the game.  Which was nice butI always felt bad that she was in tears when she did it.  And she may still have nightmares about the "creepy guy" (my daughters term) who asked what her name (and another girl who was Lateefa Joy, another GREAT player) was as she was leaving the lobby of the YMCA after winning the championship.  Probably wouldn't have been sooo creepy if I hadn't said "Excuse me.  What's your name cuz I want to follow you."  Thankfully, my daughter, seeing the look of horror on her and Ms. Joy's faces, stepped in and assured them I wasn't a stalker.

    You may now return to your regularly scheduled program..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on February 25, 2009, 09:59:46 PM
    Ethelred I can not wait until I reach 200 posts so I can give out +karma - that was hilarious!!! Thank heaven we have our daughters to protect us!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 26, 2009, 02:17:46 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 25, 2009, 09:59:46 PM
    Ethelred I can not wait until I reach 200 posts so I can give out +karma - that was hilarious!!! Thank heaven we have our daughters to protect us!!!

    with age,

    Pat came to your aid last week and I was the beneficiary, so I guess I can return the favor and give +k to Ethelred for you. Besides that, it was funny and I don't want him to have to wait 3 more years for that karma point
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 26, 2009, 08:09:31 AM
    Cyclone..... yes D3....  ::) for Dudek.........While she isn't playing against the best her numbers are great....... Believe it or not a friend of mine coached a game against Bird when she was very young, I believe 6th grade.....Another coach told him about her and how great she was ( he thought how great could a 6th grader be.) BUT he played a triangle and 2, HIS VERSION, 2 on Bird, 3 man zone..... can you imagine IN THE 6th GRADE.........  Well she was held  to 6 pts........But she won the game..........  What was he thinking, 6th grade, anything for a "W".  ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 26, 2009, 01:06:24 PM
    Sean Burton was announced as Empire 8 POY today, the first player to win it outright twice, and one of five to be on three 1st teams.

    1st team: Burton, Carson, C. McAdam, Cocoziello, Herring
    2nd: Bostic, R. McAdam, Newman, Gray, Passalacqua
    HM: Adamson, Cruz, Franklin, Goodman, Rodgers, S. Young
    COY: Mullins
    ROY: Blazek

    No real surprises there, I must say
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 26, 2009, 03:21:10 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 26, 2009, 01:06:24 PM
    Sean Burton was announced as Empire 8 POY today, the first player to win it outright twice, and one of five to be on three 1st teams.

    1st team: Burton, Carson, C. McAdam, Cocoziello, Herring
    2nd: Bostic, R. McAdam, Newman, Gray, Passalacqua
    HM: Adamson, Cruz, Franklin, Goodman, Rodgers, S. Young
    COY: Mullins
    ROY: Blazek

    No real surprises there, I must say

    Kinda surprised R. McAdams didn't get 1st team nod with 17.8 ppg, 8.6 rpg as his numbers. Completely agree with Burton as POY, MUllins as COY and Blazek as ROY.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 06:05:27 PM
    Utica coach Chris Connolly is on Hoopsville tonight. Show runs from 6-8 ET.

    http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/tunein.php
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 27, 2009, 09:20:37 AM
    For what it's worth I think the All Conference, POY, ROY are right on the money as is Coach of the year. I would have to think Chris Connolly should have been close second........

    What players and coaches underachieved (disappointed) this year in our opinion????
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 27, 2009, 09:48:33 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on September 18, 2008, 09:03:52 AM
    OK gang, 26 days to mid-night madness, let's get the juices flowing.  remember as I always say "what do I know ???..  I apologize up front if I forget someone, or offend an alumn, I am too old to be yelled at... Here's the way the saeson looks FROMAFAR.

    My order of finish...

    1...ITHACA....  Burton repeats as POY.. needs to get others involved and help Bostic become a factor early in the season. Leahy streaky and needs to bulk up. Brown should be one year smarter in the post.

    2... UTICA... Only lose Munch, not a big deal. Too slow at the point may have cost them over the long run. I think Connoly will be a huge asset, and get Herring to be less COCOESQUE, and get McClendon and Maxwell more involved.

    3. STEVENS TECH... My second favorite team. ( work in the city and have Stevens Alumn friends who follow team.) They will miss Williams inside play, but the loss of Farid ( did I spell that right ???) may not be a problem. They seemed to be too methodical at times last year, New Coach Hurley may let them go. it appears Grey and Greco are at their best when improvising. ( Those two destroyed Fisher, Ithaca ..without Burton.. at home, and Nazareth home and away.) GRECO MAY BE SMARTEST PLAYER IN LEAGUE, Passalaqua can shoot from anywhere...Those 3 need to stay out of foul trouble and remain on the court for 30+ minutes each. Baker is physical and should replace Farids rebounds,,, Be careful of this team, they may sneak up on everyone.

    4. Nazareth...  it all comes down to Daley. he needs to give some of the starters rest.. late game collapses due to TOO MANY MINUTES. C. Mc ADAM giveth and taketh.. can be one of the best when he cuts down on turn overs. Look for Miranda and Dehimer to step up, life after Canori should be interesting.

    5. RIT... AH MY FAVORITE TEAM... WE PLAYED EVERYONE TOUGH LAST YEAR AND CAME CLOSE TO THE TOP TEAMS. THIS MAY HAVE BUILT OUR CHARACTER. LOOK FOR CARSON TO TAKE ANOTHER STEP FORWARD..WILL PUSH FOR POY... MAYBE.. HOPEFULLY...  ;D, NATE KORNICHAK, AND RICK WHITWOOD ARE KEYS, THEY NEED TO GET TO THE NEXT LEVEL IN THEIR GAMES, WE COULD MAKE PLAYOFFS......

    6. FISHER... I know I will take heat on picking them 5, rememebr RIT is with my heart. Fisher could make playoffs if Kornaker has some immediate help from recruits, and knowing him he does...Ozelle Franklin may break out this year, and Newman and Coyne are veterans, however the loss of Beigel, McKeever, and Beardan is an issue...

    7. ALFRED... New coach.. Wellman, and return of veterans.. Embury, Patt, Smthgall, and Walsh, give him a start at this school.. could surprise one of top 3 along the way.

    8. ELMIRA.. Coach Torgelsk ( did I spell that ??? correct).. will ahve a tough start here, I have no idea how he goes, not much there.

    9. HARTWICK.. COCO, COCO, COCO.... did Culpo straighten out the house?? ???  Who do they have coming in.... They need help....

    1st TEAM ALL CONFERENCE        2ND TEAM

    CARSON...    RIT                          K. MCADAM      NAZ
    BURTON...     ITHACA                   GRECO            STEVENS
    C. MCADAM...NAZ                        BOSTIC            ITHACA
    GREY...          STEVENS                COCO              HARTWICK
    HERRING....   UTICA                     PASSALAQUA  STEVENS

    PLAYERS TO WATCH...

    McClendon..... Utica
    Newman.........Fisher
    Leahy....         Ithaca


    AGAIN, MY APOLOGIES TO THOSE PLAYERS I MISSED, THOSE ALUMNI I OFFENDED...... BUT MEANT TO GET THE BANTER GOING........... ;)











           


       


     


       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 27, 2009, 09:50:33 AM
    HEY Not bad, I sent this in September....... Throw Stevens out of the mix, and I wasn't too bad....... All conference not bad either.  What DID I know ;)




    Quote from: FROMAFAR on September 18, 2008, 09:03:52 AM
    OK gang, 26 days to mid-night madness, let's get the juices flowing.  remember as I always say "what do I know ???..  I apologize up front if I forget someone, or offend an alumn, I am too old to be yelled at... Here's the way the saeson looks FROMAFAR.

    My order of finish...

    1...ITHACA....  Burton repeats as POY.. needs to get others involved and help Bostic become a factor early in the season. Leahy streaky and needs to bulk up. Brown should be one year smarter in the post.

    2... UTICA... Only lose Munch, not a big deal. Too slow at the point may have cost them over the long run. I think Connoly will be a huge asset, and get Herring to be less COCOESQUE, and get McClendon and Maxwell more involved.

    3. STEVENS TECH... My second favorite team. ( work in the city and have Stevens Alumn friends who follow team.) They will miss Williams inside play, but the loss of Farid ( did I spell that right ???) may not be a problem. They seemed to be too methodical at times last year, New Coach Hurley may let them go. it appears Grey and Greco are at their best when improvising. ( Those two destroyed Fisher, Ithaca ..without Burton.. at home, and Nazareth home and away.) GRECO MAY BE SMARTEST PLAYER IN LEAGUE, Passalaqua can shoot from anywhere...Those 3 need to stay out of foul trouble and remain on the court for 30+ minutes each. Baker is physical and should replace Farids rebounds,,, Be careful of this team, they may sneak up on everyone.

    4. Nazareth...  it all comes down to Daley. he needs to give some of the starters rest.. late game collapses due to TOO MANY MINUTES. C. Mc ADAM giveth and taketh.. can be one of the best when he cuts down on turn overs. Look for Miranda and Dehimer to step up, life after Canori should be interesting.

    5. RIT... AH MY FAVORITE TEAM... WE PLAYED EVERYONE TOUGH LAST YEAR AND CAME CLOSE TO THE TOP TEAMS. THIS MAY HAVE BUILT OUR CHARACTER. LOOK FOR CARSON TO TAKE ANOTHER STEP FORWARD..WILL PUSH FOR POY... MAYBE.. HOPEFULLY...  ;D, NATE KORNICHAK, AND RICK WHITWOOD ARE KEYS, THEY NEED TO GET TO THE NEXT LEVEL IN THEIR GAMES, WE COULD MAKE PLAYOFFS......

    6. FISHER... I know I will take heat on picking them 5, rememebr RIT is with my heart. Fisher could make playoffs if Kornaker has some immediate help from recruits, and knowing him he does...Ozelle Franklin may break out this year, and Newman and Coyne are veterans, however the loss of Beigel, McKeever, and Beardan is an issue...

    7. ALFRED... New coach.. Wellman, and return of veterans.. Embury, Patt, Smthgall, and Walsh, give him a start at this school.. could surprise one of top 3 along the way.

    8. ELMIRA.. Coach Torgelsk ( did I spell that ??? correct).. will ahve a tough start here, I have no idea how he goes, not much there.

    9. HARTWICK.. COCO, COCO, COCO.... did Culpo straighten out the house?? ???  Who do they have coming in.... They need help....

    1st TEAM ALL CONFERENCE        2ND TEAM

    CARSON...    RIT                          K. MCADAM      NAZ
    BURTON...     ITHACA                   GRECO            STEVENS
    C. MCADAM...NAZ                        BOSTIC            ITHACA
    GREY...          STEVENS                COCO              HARTWICK
    HERRING....   UTICA                     PASSALAQUA  STEVENS

    PLAYERS TO WATCH...

    McClendon..... Utica
    Newman.........Fisher
    Leahy....         Ithaca


    AGAIN, MY APOLOGIES TO THOSE PLAYERS I MISSED, THOSE ALUMNI I OFFENDED...... BUT MEANT TO GET THE BANTER GOING........... ;)











           


       


     


       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 27, 2009, 10:01:27 AM
    Too much time on my hands........ What teams will be available for ECAC, which will go??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 27, 2009, 03:47:45 PM
    Wow, had to catch up on about four pages just now. A few things:

    1) You guys wore out that Cruz Technical issue. Would I have called that in a game? Not sure. Would I have overturned the suspension? Absolutely not. Then again, my lawyerly standards for reversal of a decision are apparently much higher than the E8's. I would defer to the factfinder (the ref) in this instance.

    2) Bombers798891, Justice Stewart made the statement "I know it when I see it" in a 1964 case, after he punted the responsibility of defining what "obscenity" is. Just picking nits. However, if you're looking for a Clarence Thomas quote, "I hate plaintiffs" would be an acceptable one. He never said that, but, come on.

    3) FromAfar, I understand your affinity for Dudek, but best D3 PG you've ever seen? Expand your horizons, my friend. Dudek has some nice numbers, don't get me wrong. But best you've ever seen? And that statement is inaccurate if you consider IC's Steph Cleary a point guard. Cleary is the best women's player in E8 history. I will not debate this point with you.

    4) Coco on the E8 1st Team? Can you say "Career Achievement Award?" There's one every year.

    5) Sean Leahy doesn't even get Honorable Mention? Joke.

    6) Ithaca is the only team in the Empire 8 to play in EVERY men's E8 Tourney. That means nothing, of course, because they've never won an E8 Tourney game.

    7) Predictions for this weekend:

    FRIDAY (Women's)

    #4 St. John Fisher (62) @ #1 Ithaca (56)

    Tough break for the Bombers (13-3 in conference) to have to play a team that handed them two of their three conference losses, both by double-digits. I hope the IC fans come out for this one and give a boost to the Bombers.

    #3 Stevens (67) vs #2 Utica (65)

    Ditto for Utica, who also went 13-3 but were swept by Stevens. I expect a tight one with the conference's two top players facing off.

    SATURDAY AFTERNOON (Men's)

    #3 Utica (73) vs #2 RIT (69)

    Two teams passing in the night, one going in the wrong direction. Guess which? January 2nd seems long ago for both teams. On that night, RIT dominated the Pioneers in a 74-59 thrashing. A lot has changed since then. RIT held Utica to 57 pts/game in their two matchups, but the RIT defense has been generous of late, allowing 89 ppg over their final three contests, all losses. I expect a better effort from RIT, though, having a had a humbling week following the beatdown at Ben Light last weekend. If this game were in Vegas, I think the line would be around Utica -2. I'd take Utica.

    #4 Nazareth (87) vs #1 Ithaca (99)

    The peasants rejoice as the Ithaca men win their first E8 Tourney game and Naz finally holds the Bombers under the century mark. I expect Ithaca to come out a little tight in this one (see stat about never winning an E8 Tourney game) before putting a big run on Naz in the 2nd half. Naz rallies late to make the score looker closer than it was as the Bombers rest key players for Sunday's final.

    SATURDAY NIGHT (Women's Final)

    #4 St. John Fisher (63) vs #3 Stevens (72)

    You'll be able to hear a pin drop in Ben Light on Saturday evening if this is the Final. I'll take Stevens whose four conference losses are by a combined five points (OUCH!).

    #3 Utica (71) @ #1 Ithaca (80)

    I think this one will be tight for a good portion. Utica has to crash the boards with Goodman, McClendon and Herring in order to take advantage of Bostic's absence. I don't think they game-planned for an Ithaca team without Bostic the last time around. Utica can't settle for early jumpers. They need to work the clock and make Ithaca play defense for 25-30 seconds on every possession. Utica's transition defense will be a key, too. That said, I like Ithaca. I think we'll see a monster game from Cruz or Leahy in this one. I just get an inkling that Burton won't be the Tourney MVP.

    Title: techgate
    Post by: hoopking on February 27, 2009, 03:56:45 PM
    I have been reading this board for quite some time, but have never posted anything prior to now. Let me begin by clarifying the whole Chris Cruz technical/ejection/overturning thing. Hanging on the rim is called a "class B" technical foul. The second incident (throwing the ball at an opponent) was a "class A" unsporting technical foul. To be ejected from a game at the college level, one of the following combinations MUST occur: 2 class A's, 1 class A and 2 class B's, or 3 class B's. Therefore, Cruz should not have even been ejected from the contest - leaving the league no choice but to let him play. The officials on the game screwed up :o
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on February 27, 2009, 04:15:50 PM
    My predictions for E8 playoffs

    Women

    Ithaca over Fisher
    Utica tops Stevens

    Utica wins the Womens title!
    ------------------
    Mens

    RIT tops UC

    Ithaca beats Naz

    Ithaca rolls RIT to win the mens title.
    ----------
    I expect all the games will be close except the mens final.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 27, 2009, 05:30:00 PM
    Based on what I saw out of RIT last weekend and through the last few weeks, I would be surprised to see them advance to the men's final. They had no heart whatsoever (Carson, excluded).

    I think Ithaca will advance to the championship game, and beat Utica by around 10 points to win the E8.

    Of course, if IC wins the tournament, it will be tough for the E8 to get more than one team into the NCAAs, because RIT has absolutely tanked and I don't think Utica will have improved its standing enough by just reaching the conference title game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 28, 2009, 08:34:08 AM
    Missed you Gobombers.........Imagine an engineer trying to debate a lawyer, engineers are too smart for that. Besides I can't even debate the mens side issues let alone the womans side, because, what do I know....... 
    Hoopking if you are correct about the classes of Tech's, then as I said earlier, the rules are the rules and you have to live with them... In this case assuming you are correct, the reversal really wasn't a reversal it was a correction..........I'm sounding like a lawyer......... ;)

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2009, 03:21:30 PM
    UC is playing 8 on 5 and keeping it close. A different set of rules for each team in this game. Kudos to the Ithaca broadcast guys pointing out that they are calling everything inside one way and not at all the other.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2009, 03:25:16 PM
    This is ridiculous. RIT goes over tha back and has fouled on nearly every rebound attempt with no call immediately followed by a BS call against UC, usually a hand check.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2009, 03:33:30 PM
    RIT takes the lead on a shot after the buzzer on shot clock with only a minute plus left. Refs have done everything they can do to take this game away from UC. That was pathetic.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2009, 03:36:31 PM
    RIT now gets the rebound with less than 30 seconds left after a huge moving pick not called allowed them to get it. This is bad. UC has outplayed RIT and been the better team all day and is probably going to have this game taken away from them. This is messed up. I feel bad for the seniors and UC as a whole.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2009, 03:40:07 PM
    Less than 10 seconds left. UC down by 2. The difference in the game is the shot after the buzzer at this point.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2009, 03:40:45 PM
    UC ball, down 3 with 9.2 seconds left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCgrad45 on February 28, 2009, 03:42:33 PM
    And RIT gets a win giftwrapped for the second time this season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: clearconceit on February 28, 2009, 03:50:34 PM
    Heartbreaker for sure. 
    Good season but give RIT credit - don't think they have near the talent of us yet they finished second and beat us for the 3rd time.

    I wonder if this opens the door for U of R with a win today.  Ranked 5th going into this weekend Utica and Hamilton both faltered.  If Ithaca and St. Lawrence win - have to think they may actually get in.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 28, 2009, 04:37:54 PM
    Ithaca up 25-21 with 5:24 left in first half. Naz doing an excellent job at taking the air out of the ball. The MacAdams' are carrying the Flyers. Jeff Bostic is playing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 28, 2009, 04:48:28 PM
    A major upset in the making. Naz closes the half on a 17-2 run to take a 38-27 lead into break. Mullins is talking about how he needs to speed up the game, which is correct, but my question is why haven't you done this already if you knew, as you said you did, that Naz would try to play this type of game. And it would help if we knew how to defend a pick-and-roll. If I'm Naz, I run that play every possession in the 2nd half until Ithaca figures out how to stop it.

    Ithaca has to win this game if it wants to host the Sweet 16. Right?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: clearconceit on February 28, 2009, 04:52:34 PM
    Good to see Naz wake up.  Hartwick gave the whole league the blueprint on how to beat them.  Hold the ball every possession and frustrate them.  Hartwick almost got them at Hartwick.  The difference here is that Nazareth has alot more talent than Hartwick.

    This could mean huge implications for U of R, St L, Hamilton, and Utica's at-large hopes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 28, 2009, 05:13:39 PM
    Naz up 50-35 with 12 mins to go. Could this group of Ithaca players just be a bunch of chokes? This game is eerily reminiscent to last year's semi against Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 28, 2009, 05:18:43 PM
    Bombers with a mini-spurt to make it 51-42. How embarrassing was it that the Ithaca assistant coaches were IMPLORING the fans to get into the game? Wake up, IC fans. There are other big sporting events besides Cortaca.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 28, 2009, 05:26:43 PM
    8:41 to go, 55-47 Naz.  Definitely nowhere near the kind of point totals Ithaca is used to putting up.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 28, 2009, 05:32:12 PM
    Naz up 60-58 with 5:41 left. Ithaca has missed about five 3's that would have tied it or given them the lead. Ithaca started creeping back in the game when Bostic started guarding Corey MacAdam.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 28, 2009, 05:40:51 PM
    Naz goes on 8-0 run to make it 70-60. Ithaca responds with five unanswered. 70-65 w/2:47 left. Let's see what Ithaca is made of.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 28, 2009, 05:56:14 PM
    Such a disappointing result after Ithaca's regular season. I'm speechless. You can spit all the cliches about how tough it is to beat a team three times in one year, but Nazareth was better than Ithaca today. According to Mullins, Ithaca knew what Naz was going to do and still couldn't stop it. Bombers to within two at the six-minute mark but couldn't get it done. Besides Burton, Rogers and Leahy, Ithaca players looked afraid to shoot. If they have the same disposition in the NCAA's, they'll be one-and-done. Ithaca has a few days to figure out how to beat this style because they are definitely going to see it again.

    5-for-31 from 3-pt range. Disgusting.

    Final: Naz 82, Ithaca 76.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 28, 2009, 05:59:27 PM
    and the streak continues - Ithaca has still never won an E8 tournament game.  Unbelievable.  RIT-Nazareth tomorrow to take a bid off the bubble.

    I feel like we should apologize to all those fans of bubble teams that the Bombers just screwed over.  Our bad.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on February 28, 2009, 06:04:26 PM
    Ithaca goes down in round one. I thought they made a great comeback despite terrible shooting night. I think  they settled for early threes too often. They were at their best in the second half getting to the basket and getting lay-ups or getting to the line. Then they had a chance to set-up their 1-2-2 press which was working. The press really disrupted Naz's four corners game plan and forced a bunch of turnovers. When they missed the three pointers it allowed Naz to slow it down and run down the shot clock.

    Ithaca also fouled too much about 80 feet from the basket. They called B Rog for a few hand checking calls in the back court. All those fouls allow Corey McAdam to get to the line too much. I thought it might work to help off set Naz holding the ball but he was about 7-8 or 9-10 down the stretch for Naz from the line which was huge for them. Once again Burton really carries them back into the game. Hit two big threes to keep it close, found Bostic for the alley-oop and kept getting in the lane and getting fouled. No one else really stepped up down the stretch. I will have to check the box score but he scored almost all the points from the five minute mark to the end of the game.

    Tough loss, don't know how it will affect how many games they host. Even with this loss, they have two losses this season by an average of 4.5 points. In both games they played and shot very poorly as a team. I still think they are a level above anyone else in the east, atlantic. Maybe someone from new england region gets the sweet 16 but i doubt it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 28, 2009, 06:47:41 PM
    I can't disagree with UCGRAD that my Tigers have no beef with the ref's, but this game wasn't played in Rochester, on our court. Great year for UC, good luck to the seniors and maybe RIT's luck is still alive. Not only do we beat a good UC team, we don't have to play IC in their gym, BUT as I said many times this year NAZ scares me...........A team like that is hard to take for granted........Daly has been knocked all year and for longer than that, by me included..........Coaching played a big part in the NAZ win tonight.... KUDOS to NAZ and their coaches............. So we will get 2 to the dance...IC, I wouldn't worry about hosting the sweet 16, you may do better on the road....hosting tonight didn't seem to help,  BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 28, 2009, 07:36:51 PM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on February 28, 2009, 06:04:26 PM
    Ithaca goes down in round one. I thought they made a great comeback despite terrible shooting night. I think  they settled for early threes too often. They were at their best in the second half getting to the basket and getting lay-ups or getting to the line. Then they had a chance to set-up their 1-2-2 press which was working. The press really disrupted Naz's four corners game plan and forced a bunch of turnovers. When they missed the three pointers it allowed Naz to slow it down and run down the shot clock.

    Ithaca also fouled too much about 80 feet from the basket. They called B Rog for a few hand checking calls in the back court. All those fouls allow Corey McAdam to get to the line too much. I thought it might work to help off set Naz holding the ball but he was about 7-8 or 9-10 down the stretch for Naz from the line which was huge for them. Once again Burton really carries them back into the game. Hit two big threes to keep it close, found Bostic for the alley-oop and kept getting in the lane and getting fouled. No one else really stepped up down the stretch. I will have to check the box score but he scored almost all the points from the five minute mark to the end of the game.

    Tough loss, don't know how it will affect how many games they host. Even with this loss, they have two losses this season by an average of 4.5 points. In both games they played and shot very poorly as a team. I still think they are a level above anyone else in the east, atlantic. Maybe someone from new england region gets the sweet 16 but i doubt it.

    Typical. Nazareth came out, adjusted their game plan for a must win game and prevailed. Ithaca just kept waiting for things to break their way and their supposed superior talent to take over, and there you go. It's like football season all over again

    Bombers go 9-11 from two in the first half and 2-17 from three. Instead of adjusting, and maybe not gunning threes the whole game, Ithaca jacks up 14 more in the 2nd half. For the game, here were IC's shooting %'s:

    From 2: 66.6%
    From 3: 16.1%
    From the line: 90.5%

    Stands to reason they'd fire up essentially an equal number of both shots. They were only unstoppable from inside and ice cold from the outside. My favorite sequence of the first half was when Leahy, Burton and Rodgers all missed three pointers on the same possession before Leahy hit a layup. You'd think that would have been a hint at what kind of shots would work.

    Look at Burton. 10-12 from two. 2-11 from three.
    Leahy: 4-6 from two. 2-10 from three

    Now, I know that shooting three's was Ithaca's game all season, but you know what? Naz's game certainly wasn't one of "Let 25 seconds run off the shot clock before doing anything" all season. And yet, that's what they did in the first half and it worked to perfection. IC went away from what worked--going inside, hitting layups and drawing fouls and kept going to what didn't--shooting threes. And while they are perimeter team by nature, Burton, Cruz, Rodgers and even Marcus are plenty capable of scoring inside.

    Ithaca will still go the NCAA's of course, but I'd have to think anyone with a tape of this game will know how to beat them.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 28, 2009, 07:41:41 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 28, 2009, 05:18:43 PM
    Bombers with a mini-spurt to make it 51-42. How embarrassing was it that the Ithaca assistant coaches were IMPLORING the fans to get into the game? Wake up, IC fans. There are other big sporting events besides Cortaca.

    Players and coaches should worry less about the crowd getting behind them and more about playing the game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bigbomber on February 28, 2009, 09:07:35 PM
    That comment shows nothing more then how little you actually know about how a crowd can help a team over the hump. While in this case it didn't, more often then not it can be extremely valuable to the home team and the shift of momentum.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 28, 2009, 09:31:34 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 28, 2009, 04:48:28 PM
    Ithaca has to win this game if it wants to host the Sweet 16. Right?

    It sure won't help that they lost in the semifinal game. They might have gotten away with it if the loss was in the championship game but even then it probably will depend on what Middlebury does. If they win the Nescac tournament,  I think they will host a regional and if Ithaca is still alive, the Bombers will get sent there. Last year the NCAA sent Amherst, Brandeis, and Richard Stockton to Plattsburgh, as the Cardinals won both the regular season crown and the SUNYAC tournament, while the other major East and Northeast conference winners were getting upset in their respective tournaments. Middlebury has already won the regular season NESCAC title and now faces Amherst  for the Automatic Qualifier. With all the upsets across the country that happened today, Amhert's chances for a Pool C bid, which weren't too good to begin with, just got a whole lot worse. Plus Brandeis won their game today and remain in front of Amherst in the Northeast region.The only way that Amherst gets into the NCAA's now is if they topple Middlebury tomorrow. Bomber fans have to be rooting for the Lord Jeff's to do just that.   The Panthers are in no matter what happens but hosting a regional and revenge for a loss at  Amherst 2 weeks ago is pretty good motivation. And they're at home for this game.  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 28, 2009, 09:34:17 PM
    Quote from: Bigbomber on February 28, 2009, 09:07:35 PM
    That comment shows nothing more then how little you actually know about how a crowd can help a team over the hump. While in this case it didn't, more often then not it can be extremely valuable to the home team and the shift of momentum.

    Yes, it can, but it's not the job of an assistant coach to get the fans riled up. That's for the cheerleaders. Crowds are important, but if you're relying on the crowd to carry you past a team, you have problems. The Bombers had beaten Nazareth by 32 and 27 points in the regular season, so I'm not pinning the loss on the crowd. Ithaca is the better team, and they have no-one to blame but themselves for the loss. It's not the crowd's fault the team shot 5-31 from three point range or couldn't stop Jeff Dehimer and the McAdam brothers--who went a combined 25-36 from the floor.

    The Bombers went 14-1 away from home this season, so it's not like they don't know how to win without crowd support. Credit Nazareth for having a great game plan. Criticize the Bombers for not hitting their three's. But don't blame the crowd. That's simply a cop-out
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on February 28, 2009, 09:54:05 PM
    Bombers, the crowd did suck for the first 30 minutes of that game. If I didn't know any better, that could have been a game against Elmira on a snowy Tuesday night in January. Even the ICTV guys made mention of how the crowd was a complete non-factor. I'm not saying Ithaca needed the crowd to win, as Big Bomber said, but a pulse would have been nice. You were probably there, but don't take it as a personal affront. You're only one man.

    In other news, who the hell is this former Falcons LB that the Giants just paid $25 mil. I have never heard of him.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 28, 2009, 10:14:18 PM
    Quote from: clearconceit on February 28, 2009, 04:52:34 PM
    Good to see Naz wake up.  Hartwick gave the whole league the blueprint on how to beat them.  Hold the ball every possession and frustrate them.  Hartwick almost got them at Hartwick.  The difference here is that Nazareth has alot more talent than Hartwick.

    This could mean huge implications for U of R, St L, Hamilton, and Utica's at-large hopes.

    U of R, and Utica have no chance for an at large bid and didn't have even before Ithaca's loss. ECAC's or see you next year for those 2. St Lawrence will get a bid. Hamilton is now probably on the bubble after looking so good prior to Friday's game. All the other upsets today hurt the Continentals chances big time, but there still might be a chance for them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on February 28, 2009, 11:07:19 PM
    Congrats to Coach McVean on win #400 at RIT, getting the Tigers to right the ship after a bad couple of weeks. 

    Of course, if you believe UCGrad's completely unbiased play-by-play, the Tigers didn't even earn it  :-)

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 28, 2009, 11:50:36 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on February 28, 2009, 09:54:05 PM
    Bombers, the crowd did suck for the first 30 minutes of that game. If I didn't know any better, that could have been a game against Elmira on a snowy Tuesday night in January. Even the ICTV guys made mention of how the crowd was a complete non-factor. I'm not saying Ithaca needed the crowd to win, as Big Bomber said, but a pulse would have been nice. You were probably there, but don't take it as a personal affront. You're only one man.

    In other news, who the hell is this former Falcons LB that the Giants just paid $25 mil. I have never heard of him.

    Yes the crowd sucked, and it is disappointing. Ithaca kids rarely support their teams, but to be fair to them, why should they? A lot of the big spectator sports (Men's BBall and Football) haven't played a lot of big games at home, so fans don't really know much.

    1) The football team hadn't hosted an NCAA playoff game in 14 years prior to this season.

    2) The Men's basketball team has hosted one in their entire history and that was 15 years ago. The Men's BBall team has never won a conference playoff game.

    3) The Women's team last hosted an NCAA game in 2005.

    So in other words, of the three major spectator sports at Ithaca, an undergrad has seen what, one NCAA playoff game, here? And it was a loss. So what reason do they have to really care? I confess I almost didn't go. Why? Because I assumed IC would walk through them like they had twice this season. 

    Yes, this Men's basketball team has the potential to be special, and you wish people would support it more, but I've been coming to sporting events here for 20 years. Basketball has NEVER gotten support. Even football has seen it go down in recent years. It's just tough to get kids excited about it but it's kind of fighting a losing battle. It's Division III sports and if you didn't grow up around it, you're not going to care. I grew up in Ithaca, so I care. I tried to get people to go when I was a student, and they just didn't want to. Is it right? No. But I think it is what it is.

    The Giants signed Michael Boley. He was considered a stud in Atlanta two years go, but lost his job this season. It's an interesting signing, but if he plays up to his potential, it's a good one
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 01, 2009, 01:47:22 AM
    Posted this on several of the East Region boards.

    It looks like the East Region will have 7 bids to the NCAA tournament and are as follows:

    1   Brockport St.  Pool A  SUNYAC automatic bid
    2   RPI   Pool A Liberty League  automatic bid
    3   Medaille  Pool A   Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference  automatic bid
    4   RIT/Nazareth winner Pool A  Empire 8 automatic bid
    5   SUNYIT/Wells winner  Pool A  North Eastern Athletic Conference automatic bid
    6   Ithaca  Pool C  at large bid
    7   St Lawrence  Pool C  at large bid

    I think Hamilton is going to lose out because of all the upsets today to teams that would have been Pool A bids but have now been relegated to Pool C.( Like Ithaca)
    After all the teams that should have been Pool A bids take the Pool C bids instead
    that doesn't leave enough Pool C bids left for the East Region to get 3 Pool C's. There are simply too many good teams on the bubble. With 8 regions and only 18 Pool C at large bids there is no way that the East will get 3 of them. St Lawrence could even possibly get knocked out of the picture. The 1 good thing the Saints have going for them is that they will remain #2 in the final Regional rankings that come out later today(Sunday) but will not be seen by the public. No way Hamilton can leap over the Saints as they lost in the LL semifinals and the Saints own 2 head to head wins over them.  So for sure 6 teams but I think the Saints get in to give us the 7 bids. At least it's better than the 4 we had last year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 01, 2009, 05:09:16 AM
    It is now several hours after I posted my list of NCAA bids and D3Hoops has just come out with their NCAA projections. Here's the link:

    http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/09/projected.htm

    As I expected the 7 East Region teams I listed are in and Hamilton gets left on the table. D3Hoops projects a 4 team pod with host Ithaca as a #1 seed facing the winner of the SUNYIT/Wells game. The other game will pit Amherst against Brandeis.

    St. Lawrence will host another 4 team pod and face Brockport St. UM-Dartmouth will take on the NAZ/RIT winner.(Which they show as RIT. Pat must have a crystal ball)

    RPI is an 8 seed and will travel to #1 seed Richard Stockton.

    Medaille is also a #8 seed and will travel to the Cleveland Ohio region and face the #1 seed John Carroll.

    The coveted 1st round bye has went to Middlebury.

    Remember these are only D3Hoops projections and not the actual selections but they will be very close to the NCAA's picks. However, the placement of the teams could differ considerably.

    Middlebury losing to Amherst could have an impact on the bye, with it  possibly going to Ithaca.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 11:54:04 AM
    We crystal-ball the projections every year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 01, 2009, 12:47:40 PM
    Naz is 2-1 vs RIT this year:

    12/6: RIT 94 at Nazareth 81 (OT)

    1/14: RIT 73 at Nazareth 87 (Chase Quarterfinal)

    2/17: Nazareth 86 at RIT 84

    That's right, RIT has not defeated Naz in regulation this season. I'll go out on a limb and pick the Golden Flyers. The MacAdams looked great yesterday and DeHimer is a nice third option. Also, if Naz wins, I'd have to think a 14-13 team would be the 8-seed in the East. Is that correct? Could we see Naz/Ithaca IV in the same gym next weekend? Or would the committee work to avoid conference matchups in Round 1?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 01, 2009, 02:46:45 PM
    believe it or not i think the loss helps ithaca a lot.  Rit/naz are going into the ncaa both not very good. it also eliminates hamilton, uofr and other teams from getting at larges. the other upsets in those conf. help as well.  It does hurt that they probably wont host sweet 16 now but i never thought ithaca was that great at home anyways so not a huge loss there.  all in all after all of the upsets and just the performance of the teams in east and northeast this year i think ithaca has lots of possibilities to advance there are not nearly as many roadblocks vs prior years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 01, 2009, 03:08:25 PM
    So RIT grabs the E8 Pool A bid downing Naz 76-71. Guess Pat did have a crystal ball after all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 01, 2009, 04:24:28 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 01, 2009, 02:46:45 PM
    believe it or not i think the loss helps ithaca a lot.  Rit/naz are going into the ncaa both not very good. it also eliminates hamilton, uofr and other teams from getting at larges. the other upsets in those conf. help as well.  It does hurt that they probably wont host sweet 16 now but i never thought ithaca was that great at home anyways so not a huge loss there.  all in all after all of the upsets and just the performance of the teams in east and northeast this year i think ithaca has lots of possibilities to advance there are not nearly as many roadblocks vs prior years.

    That's an interesting theory, and it might very well be true, but the loss also illuminates some weaknesses of Ithaca. As someone else said, Hartwick, Alfred and Naz have all shown how to beat Ithaca. You slow down the pace and it gets Ithaca out of their rhythm, especially when they try to shoot threes. There were times when Ithaca just seemed so unsettled they quickly jacked up a three, almost like they were trying to force the pace up.

    Teams who've tried to run and gun with Ithaca have, for the most part, lost big. Teams who have slowed down the pace have kept it closer and taken Ithaca out of their game.

    Another thing to remember is that, despite this being a senior-laden team, they've never had much postseason success. As sophomores, they won the ECAC's, but that's it. We don't know how the team will respond to the pressure of the NCAA's.

    This is an exceedingly talented Ithaca squad, by clear, the best in school history and possibly one of the best in conference history. But to this point, their legacy is undefined. If they make a run to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8, which they are certainly capable of doing, they'd be the most successful class in school history. But if they fall in the opening round, they'll be a team that put together two amazing regular seasons (41-9), but an 0-3 in the postseason.

    I think they could certainly take the regional they're in, but it's time to see what the team is made of.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 01, 2009, 06:43:18 PM
    i also forgot to mention it could help ithaca fix up some kinks in their game that havnt been exposed but also could go the other way in having them lose some confidence and identity.  I think they will get to the sweet 16 this year but think they need to do well as stated in the ncaa.  Most other great teams usually have 2-3 years of success in the ncaa's to go along withthe great record.  I think ithaca would be considered a much better team in my opinion if these guys won the league title a few times or atleast made the ncaa's during their 1st 3 years of their college careers. Not to take away from their great season especially since it hasnt ended but theyre are not many sr laden teams this year, so i think ithaca met expectations not quite exceeded them so far.  I hope they do great and rep. the e8 well in the tourny as i dont think rit will do much, but who knows.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mrhoopfan on March 02, 2009, 06:27:21 AM
    People gotta give RIT some credit.....a night after torching Ithaca for 29 pts and 8 assists....RIT holds Corey McAdam to 15 points on 5-15 shooting with 6 turnovers....The Tigers ARE a solid team, much more than they've been given credit for
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bamm on March 02, 2009, 07:52:52 AM
    Congrats to the Tigers.  It's been quite a couple of weeks for them.  Most of the folks on the board had given them little chance of winning the tournament (reasonably, in my view) after the way they had played the last couple of weeks.  An impressive weekend.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 02, 2009, 09:53:12 AM
    Quote from: mrhoopfan on March 02, 2009, 06:27:21 AM
    People gotta give RIT some credit.....a night after torching Ithaca for 29 pts and 8 assists....RIT holds Corey McAdam to 15 points on 5-15 shooting with 6 turnovers....The Tigers ARE a solid team, much more than they've been given credit for

    Revisionist history. Everyone gave them a lot of credit all year...until they lost four of their last five games, two of which were to teams not in the E8 Tourney. Sorry if we weren't bowing down to a team that limped to the finish.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: RITFAN on March 02, 2009, 12:32:32 PM
    It has been a roller coaster for the Tigers.  They looked dead after being trounced by Ithaca last weekend.  It is interesting to see how a team responds to adversity.

    Kudos to the McAdams brothers - 169 minutes of court time in < 24 hours.  Eighty points between them, along with controlling the tempo in the face of an increasingly desparate Ithaca team (Kudos also to Jeff Bostic, who guarded Corey McAdams very effectively).  Jeff Dehimer - 18/18 from the field for the weekend -can't do much better then that.  I hope the Naz player who missed the foul shots at the end of the RIT game puts it behind him - there were other fouls shots missed in the game - any one of them would have made the difference.

    Congrats to RIT for digging dowen and finding they were still strong.  Everyone played great, and the team showed a lot of character
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 02, 2009, 01:08:35 PM
    Mr. Hoopfan, Gobombers is correct, we limped in....I'm happy winning the E8 when we weren't even picked to be in the tourney.. feels pretty good...no matter what the route... Of course we are going to get greedy and be very disappointed when we lose in tourney.... but hey everyone in the Tourney loses their last game except one team, so we can handle that....... remember Villanova Limped in.. in 1985,  and look what happened........Normally I would say it can't happen, but that's what I said when the E 8  Tourney started... But what do i know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: larry_u on March 02, 2009, 04:40:07 PM
    Can someone post your NCAA team's profiles in here:

    http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=6299.0
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 02, 2009, 06:40:58 PM
    Not only does Ithaca get to host and grab 1 of the four 1st round byes but if they advance to the sweet 16 they stand a great chance of hosting the Regional.

    Interesting that the NCAA committee has put the top 7 teams in the country in 1 quadrant. Ithaca at #8 is the highest ranked team in their quadrant. Bomber fans have to be happy with their placement. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 02, 2009, 09:35:59 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 02, 2009, 06:40:58 PM
    Not only does Ithaca get to host and grab 1 of the four 1st round byes but if they advance to the sweet 16 they stand a great chance of hosting the Regional.

    Interesting that the NCAA committee has put the top 7 teams in the country in 1 quadrant. Ithaca at #8 is the highest ranked team in their quadrant. Bomber fans have to be happy with their placement. 

    Talked with someone in the know and he said that St. Joes could present some matchup problems with IC due to their athleticism. It is still an excellent placement for the Bombers and they can make a decent run if the shots are falling
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on March 02, 2009, 11:14:35 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 02, 2009, 06:40:58 PM
    Not only does Ithaca get to host and grab 1 of the four 1st round byes but if they advance to the sweet 16 they stand a great chance of hosting the Regional.

    Interesting that the NCAA committee has put the top 7 teams in the country in 1 quadrant. Ithaca at #8 is the highest ranked team in their quadrant. Bomber fans have to be happy with their placement. 

    I am very pumped about this news. Last time the Bombers lost they went on a tear and I expect the same this time. Haven't heard much about St. Joe's, heard a little about DeSales. I think Ithaca should overpower both and will have a week to game-plan against the slow down philosphy that Naz used.

    On to Naz's game plan, here is breaking news about the Naz's coach, Coach Mike Daley. He is retiring after 23 seasons. I know a few Naz players and some really liked him as a coach and of course a couple didn't agree with his coaching choices. However, they all said he was there for the players more than any other coach, always helping them become better basketball players and also better people.

    Here is a link to the story on the Naz website:

    http://nazathletics.com/news/2009/3/2/MBB_0302093333.aspx
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 03, 2009, 10:04:06 AM
    wow after looking at the bracket Ithaca cannot be happier.  they are in perfect position to advancing to the final 4.  They are the top seeded on the whole 2 brackets leading to the final 4.  I cannot believe how they stacked the other west region brackets, Lawrence is 27-0 and didnt even get a bye, I feel really bad for bport as they have no chance over there.   Ithaca should atleast be able to make it to the sweet 16 playing a wpi team that is a little down over the past few years as well, typically they only have 2-3 losses by now vs 5. then in the elite 8 game they will play a team with a min. of 5 losses as well.  They cannot look past the 2nd round though and have to take one game at a time but wow what a great position. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on March 03, 2009, 10:53:51 AM
    Alright boys and girls, now that it's officially dance time the e8 can all put aside team loyalties and root for the Bombers and Tigers to run shop in the tourney.  As the most metro of our group, I have seen St. Joes-LI probably 10 times in the past 2 years, so I figured it was my duty to break them down in case they do make it to the Bombers.

    First, they indeed are a "dangerous" matchup for the Bombers.  Not dangerous in that they are better, but if Ithaca shoots poorly and St. Joes plays a smart game, they have the offense to stay with the Bombers and a go to guy that could potentially be the best athlete Ithaca has seen all year.  These teams are basically carbon copies of each other in a way that I hope to explain.

    *They run a 3 guard lineup similar to Stevens, so I'll list them as such.


    Point Guard - David Acree - 6'0, Senior
    2008-2009:  1st Team All-Skyline, 17.7 ppg, 3.8 apg,  74/220 from 3's on the year (almost 8 attempts a game)


    David is a fast point guard, but he is definitely shoot first, shoot second.  He will pull up on the break, but mostly shoots his 3's off kickouts from Walsh and Niblock.  He's not terribly strong, but is a pesky defender that will make Burton work.  Plays roughly 34 minutes a game.  If I had to give an edge, naturally it'd be to Burton, but this kid is good and very confident (as seen from 8 three point attempts per contest).


    Shooting Guard - Chris Jimenez - 6'0, Freshman
    2008-2009:  11.8 ppg, 3.3 apg, 64/160 from 3 (best 3 point shooter on team)

    For a freshman, Jimenez is an extremely heady player.  He handles the ball as much, if not more, than Acree when it comes to setting up plays, as they look to get Acree's offense going early.  Jimenez is 9th in the country in Assist-To-Turnover, so he takes care of the ball.  His offense comes mostly from set plays or kickouts, but he will look to attack the basket if he gets hot.

    Guard - Matt Weeks - 6'3", Sophomore
    2008-2009: 2.9 ppg

    Not much to say about Weeks.  He's a tough kid, but doesn't do much, and does even less well.  Only plays 16 minutes per game and usually subs out early with Bray or Crisci coming off the bench.


    Forward - J.J. Walsh - 6'5", Senior
    2008-2009: 1st Team All-Skyline, 22.3 ppg, 9.3 rpg

    This is their "guy".  Part of me really wants to see Joes win because the matchup between Walsh and Cruz/Bostic would be worth the price of admission.  My best comparison for Walsh is that he is a bigger, more active version of Virgil Gray from Stevens.  Walsh simply gets to the basket.  He's only taken 33 three point shots the entire season, but has taken 151 free throws.  Less than 6 a game, but that's because Walsh's greatest strength is that if he gets to the rim and you let him shoot, it's going in.  Kid shot over 58% from the field.  They use him a lot in high ball screens.  Well, enough talking about it, I'll just show you.  This is the Jimenez/Walsh ball screen showing what both like to do offensively, and what can happen if you're not careful:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rnTyxw_EWw


    Center - Chris Niblock - 6'4", Senior
    2008-2009:  10.9 ppg, 8.0 rpg

    This is a WIDE body.  Niblock is physical and takes up a ton of space down low.  He will lean on Bostic (I assume that's how they match up) and has decent moves down low.  Notorious Hot Head that can be goaded into Tech's, and he plays with a great deal of emotion.  Not athletic at all, but they cover that up because they don't play man.



    Bench Notables:

    Alvin Bray, 6'4" Senior...backup wing, was starter at beginning of season
    Mike Crisci, 6'3" Junior...backup guard, best free throw shooter on team
    Sean Hyde, 6'5" Junior...backup center, very strong, very physical kid.


    All 3 of these guys average over 15 minutes a game.  The bench doesn't provide much for St. Joes, but they do bring in a good deal of size and experience. 



    Team Overview:

    St. Joes averaged 83.4 ppg, and held opponents to 68.6 ppg.  Only matchup of note, though I don't think it matters, is that they beat RIT by 20 the first game of the season.  Walsh put up 26 points in that one.  They are 16-1 in their last 17 games, equally good @ home (12-1) and on the road (10-1).  *Neutral they're 2-1, which gives you the 24-3 overall record*

    Offensively they have 4 guys averaging double digits, but the focal point is obviously Walsh, followed by Acree.  Defensively they are a junk defense.  You see full court press on makes in man or their typical 1-3-1.  They play primarily a mix of a 2-3 matchup/1-3-1 zone in the half court, and do look to trap corners.  Of their 3 losses, 2 came to Farmingdale St. (a Pool C team this year), before Joes beat Farmingdale last week to claim to the Skyline's AQ. 


    Summary  - I think Ithaca is a better team, and St. Joes will first have to get by a pretty good DeSales squad in their building.  However, if the Bombers and Eagles end up playing in round 2, Ithaca would need to play a solid (not great, but better than "good") game and they should handle St. Joes



    Hope this helps.  Any questions on this team, I got you covered.  If they lose to DeSales, I just wasted my time hahaha.  Oh well, gotta love March.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 03, 2009, 10:02:50 PM
    good anaysis, im tired but Ive seen Desales play when they beat Fisher first game of the season.  From what i took from the game is that Desales is a solid very well coached team.  They didnt seem to be loaded with talent they just seemed to be solid overall, they looked to be overachieving against fisher.  They do not have a ton of size or quickness.  They shoot the ball pretty well and run there offense with great execution.  They slow the game down and run the entire shot clock (dangerous matchup for ithaca).  They are very fundamental and methodical.  When watching the game against fisher it seemed like fisher was the better team just playing very bad and should have beat them by 10.  I think this was more of the case of desales just making the game ugly by slowing the ball down so much.  They also did not turn the ball over so fishers shots attempts were limited.  From slowing down the ball and executing pretty well on the offensive end can make teams hurry shots and get out of the game.  That being said I dont think they are a great team, it was fishers first game and fisher was very very young this year.  Looks to be a good game between st joes and desales.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 03, 2009, 10:19:54 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 03, 2009, 10:04:06 AM
    wow after looking at the bracket Ithaca cannot be happier.  they are in perfect position to advancing to the final 4.  They are the top seeded on the whole 2 brackets leading to the final 4.  I cannot believe how they stacked the other west region brackets, Lawrence is 27-0and didnt even get a bye, I feel really bad for bport as they have no chance over there.   Ithaca should atleast be able to make it to the sweet 16 playing a wpi team that is a little down over the past few years as well, typically they only have 2-3 losses by now vs 5. then in the elite 8 game they will play a team with a min. of 5 losses as well.  They cannot look past the 2nd round though and have to take one game at a time but wow what a great position. 

    FisherDynasty
    Lawrence is not 27-0 they are 19-6. St Thomas is 27-0. ;) They probably didn't get a bye because they're in the West region and geography has a lot to do with the placement of teams. The NCAA  looks to keep the cost of travel down and does not want  to fly too many teams to Washington State where Puget Sound is.

    Brockport seems up against it but I wouldn't say they have no chance. This is a different team from the one that started out 4-9 and they've won 7 in a row.  And we all saw what happened when No Chance Naz played Ithaca last Sunday. ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 03, 2009, 11:06:05 PM
    sorry meant st thomas not lawrence.  It still sucks regardless for them.   Bport is not the same team but they also have 14 losses in a WEAK division so lets be honest they have no chance.  They are probably the lowest seed (besides Medaille) in that bracket.  I hope they do well and represent the east just dont see them getting out of the first round in this one
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on March 04, 2009, 12:57:04 PM
    Congrats to Coach McVean and his staff on their E8 Tourney championship and good luck in the dance. Scooter from Florida
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jonny Utah on March 04, 2009, 05:49:50 PM
    Does the brackets mean that IC has one of the top 4 seeds?

    Also, does Ithaca have all home games untill the final 4?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 04, 2009, 06:16:12 PM
    Quote from: Jonny Utah on March 04, 2009, 05:49:50 PM
    Does the brackets mean that IC has one of the top 4 seeds?

    Also, does Ithaca have all home games untill the final 4?

    Technically, I guess so. Although these brackets are based more on geography, so it's not like people think Ithaca is one of the best four teams in the country. The top 7 teams in last weeks poll were all grouped together in one region.

    The Bombers, to my knowledge, would host till the Final Four, but I could be wrong on that.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 04, 2009, 07:36:31 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 04, 2009, 06:16:12 PM
    Quote from: Jonny Utah on March 04, 2009, 05:49:50 PM
    Does the brackets mean that IC has one of the top 4 seeds?

    Also, does Ithaca have all home games untill the final 4?

    Technically, I guess so. Although these brackets are based more on geography, so it's not like people think Ithaca is one of the best four teams in the country. The top 7 teams in last weeks poll were all grouped together in one region.

    The Bombers, to my knowledge, would host till the Final Four, but I could be wrong on that.

    Getting a 1st round bye doesn't guarantee that you'll host the Regional when the sweet 16 is set. The NCAA will once again look at the geography of the participating teams and make their decision based on travel costs and merit. A 21-8 RIT wouldn't get a regional but a 24-5 Widener might. Having said that, I think Ithaca, geographically, is in a good
    location to get the Regional if it makes the round of 16 and their 25-2 record certainly would merit one. If, for instance the 4 teams in Ithaca's quadrant end up being Widener, Brandeis, UMass-Dartmouth, and the Bombers, it makes sense to send them to Ithaca.

    Out West Puget Sound got a 1st round bye but doubt they would host a Regional regardless of the other 3 teams in the Sweet Sixteen from that quadrant. NCAA won't want to fly 3 teams to Washington State. Geography trumps merit in this case.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 04, 2009, 08:30:01 PM
    I think if a team is more than two wins back from the remaining field the top team will host no matter what the geography.  I thought from that perspective before Fisher, UofR, and Potsdam all had to travel to Amherst for the sweet 16 even though two out of the teams were in the same city and 1 of them was undefeated.  Then we thought it was based on court size only to find out Amhersts gym was no bigger than Fishers.

    I know they take geography into consideration but I think ithaca based on the pool of teams in their bracket if they make it that far they will host based an overwelming record over the others exluding maybe middleberry.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 04, 2009, 08:55:29 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 04, 2009, 08:30:01 PM
    I think if a team is more than two wins back from the remaining field the top team will host no matter what the geography.  I thought from that perspective before Fisher, UofR, and Potsdam all had to travel to Amherst for the sweet 16 even though two out of the teams were in the same city and 1 of them was undefeated.  Then we thought it was based on court size only to find out Amhersts gym was no bigger than Fishers.

    I know they take geography into consideration but I think ithaca based on the pool of teams in their bracket if they make it that far they will host based an overwelming record over the others exluding maybe middleberry.

    Middlebury doesn't come into play they are in a different quadrant.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 05, 2009, 10:49:47 PM
    DeSales advances and will play the Bombers in Ithaca on Saturday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on March 05, 2009, 11:20:32 PM
    Programming note...

    We will work with the NCAA to broadcast all the games from the Widener men's basketball regional this weekend where RIT will try to advance to the sectionals.  You can tune into the games here (http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 06, 2009, 07:39:09 PM
    Quote from: gordonmann on March 05, 2009, 11:20:32 PM
    Programming note...

    We will work with the NCAA to broadcast all the games from the Widener men's basketball regional this weekend where RIT will try to advance to the sectionals.  You can tune into the games here (http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/).

    One and done for the Tigers. Salem State pulls away in the second half and tops RIT 83-71.

    Carson has 11-10
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on March 07, 2009, 07:22:22 PM
    Ithaca by 5 with 7:49 left in the first half.  ICTV video working excellently thus far.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 07, 2009, 07:39:56 PM
    Bombers up 39-37 at the break. Cruz with 9 Burton and Marcus with 8 each Bostic and Rogers with 5 each.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 07, 2009, 07:45:28 PM
    Hey Leahy, you're 6'7'', STOP JACKING 3'S!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 07, 2009, 08:08:52 PM
    Desales leads 50-46 at the under-12 media timeout. This one is slipping away from Ithaca. IC has already attempted 26 3-ptrs in 28 minutes. You'd think they would have learned their lesson from the Naz loss. History might not repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme.

    I had to mute the ICTV feed. Those guys are whining too much. If I hear another "the wheels are coming off for the Bombers," the laptop is going across the room.

    Leahy now looks like a deer-in-headlights. Get off the floor if you're not going to try to score.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 07, 2009, 08:14:41 PM
    57-48 with 7:35 left. Keep hiking 3's, boys. Ithaca just can't adjust. Mullins getting outcoached. The plan for IC's opponent is easy: frustrate them, work the shotclock and then take them off the dribble. It's now or never for the Bombers. Can this group win ONE postseason game of any importance in their careers? We'll see.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 07, 2009, 08:17:58 PM
    They've taken 56 shots and 30 of them are 3's. Made 7. What kind of offense is this?

    Now down 11 64-53 with 5:05 left. It's now or never.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on March 07, 2009, 08:20:56 PM
    Ithaca is a choking disgrace.  That is all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on March 07, 2009, 08:37:53 PM
    IC trying desperately to climb back in this thing, but down 6 with under a minute to go...doesn't look good.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 07, 2009, 08:39:03 PM
    there just not that great idk about a choking disgrace.  They didnt get to measure themselves up that much this year due to the awful region competition.  Ive seen Desales play they are not very good just disciplined.  What would have happened if they played a really good disciplined team.   SLU looks to be going to the sweet 16 i think they have a shot at the final 4.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 07, 2009, 08:52:36 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on March 07, 2009, 08:14:41 PM
    57-48 with 7:35 left. Keep hiking 3's, boys. Ithaca just can't adjust. Mullins getting outcoached. The plan for IC's opponent is easy: frustrate them, work the shotclock and then take them off the dribble. It's now or never for the Bombers. Can this group win ONE postseason game of any importance in their careers? We'll see.

    Ithaca, down 66-53, mounts a frantic rally over the last four minutes, but just dug themselves too deep a hole. Season comes to a disappointing end as DeSales tops the Bombers, 77-71 

    It's amazing to me that a team loaded with so many good free throw shooters wouldn't attempt to draw some fouls and get to the line where they would have a significant advantage over other teams and instead just guns threes. Ithaca takes a total of five free throws, and throws up a staggering 41 threes.

    Also, what happened to this team's defense? Nazareth turns out a nice little 63.3% and then DeSales goes over 50%. Just can't let that happen.

    It's a shame, because this group of kids really could have put together a special season with a nice run here in the NCAA's. It was a great regular season, but unfortunately, this team is going to be remembered more for what they didn't accomplish than what they did.

    Maybe that's a cynical outlook, and somewhat unfair to the team, but once the conference slate started, it became pretty apparent that the Bombers were going to cruise through the regular season and their performance in the NCAA's would define their legacy.

    41-9 in the regular season, 0-2 in the E8 Tourney, 0-1 in the NCAA's. I wouldn't go so far as to term the a "disgrace"...that's too harsh. However, they were a team unable to perform at their best when it mattered the most, and there's no debating that

    So where does Ithaca go from here? Most of the key players graduate, with Cruz, Marcus and Brown being the notables returning. Is it a return to the mediocre seasons of 14-12, 16-13 and the like that plagued the program from 2003-2007 before this group came into their own?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jonny Utah on March 07, 2009, 08:59:13 PM
    This is the first Ithaca basketball game Ive seen since probably Steve Dunham played (yea, Im old), but to me it seemed like one of those 'live by the three, die by the three' games.

    Ive seen the Celtics win the way Ithaca played tonight (without Garnett), but IC seemed a little too small on defense, and a little to eager on offense.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 07, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
    Quote from: Jonny Utah on March 07, 2009, 08:59:13 PM
    This is the first Ithaca basketball game Ive seen since probably Steve Dunham played (yea, Im old), but to me it seemed like one of those 'live by the three, die by the three' games.

    Ive seen the Celtics win the way Ithaca played tonight (without Garnett), but IC seemed a little too small on defense, and a little to eager on offense.

    Yeah, that's what Ithaca usually says when they lose, but it's a cop-out. They'll go 15-34 in some meaningless regular season game, but 15-72 in the two biggest games of the season.

    In the E8 Tournament/NCAA's, this group shot 22-97 from three point range over three games. No-one cares about the three you hit up 40 points against Elmira in the regular season if you're going to miss them when the games actually mean something.

    I hope no-one comes on and tries to pin this loss on the crowd too
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jonny Utah on March 07, 2009, 10:38:39 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 07, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
    Quote from: Jonny Utah on March 07, 2009, 08:59:13 PM
    This is the first Ithaca basketball game Ive seen since probably Steve Dunham played (yea, Im old), but to me it seemed like one of those 'live by the three, die by the three' games.

    Ive seen the Celtics win the way Ithaca played tonight (without Garnett), but IC seemed a little too small on defense, and a little to eager on offense.

    Yeah, that's what Ithaca usually says when they lose, but it's a cop-out. They'll go 15-34 in some meaningless regular season game, but 15-72 in the two biggest games of the season.

    In the E8 Tournament/NCAA's, this group shot 22-97 from three point range over three games. No-one cares about the three you hit up 40 points against Elmira in the regular season if you're going to miss them when the games actually mean something.

    I hope no-one comes on and tries to pin this loss on the crowd too


    It might be a cop out, but isnt that the way they played? (all the threes)

    How many Ithaca games to they streamline during the regular season?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 07, 2009, 10:45:29 PM
    Quote from: Jonny Utah on March 07, 2009, 10:38:39 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 07, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
    Quote from: Jonny Utah on March 07, 2009, 08:59:13 PM
    This is the first Ithaca basketball game Ive seen since probably Steve Dunham played (yea, Im old), but to me it seemed like one of those 'live by the three, die by the three' games.

    Ive seen the Celtics win the way Ithaca played tonight (without Garnett), but IC seemed a little too small on defense, and a little to eager on offense.

    Yeah, that's what Ithaca usually says when they lose, but it's a cop-out. They'll go 15-34 in some meaningless regular season game, but 15-72 in the two biggest games of the season.

    In the E8 Tournament/NCAA's, this group shot 22-97 from three point range over three games. No-one cares about the three you hit up 40 points against Elmira in the regular season if you're going to miss them when the games actually mean something.

    I hope no-one comes on and tries to pin this loss on the crowd too


    It might be a cop out, but isnt that the way they played? (all the threes)

    How many Ithaca games to they streamline during the regular season?

    It is, but they showed that they don't have the ability to adapt their game when they need to (I.E. when the three's aren't falling)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: BJ - DSU SID on March 07, 2009, 11:38:35 PM
    Let me start by saying that Ithaca did a great job hosting tonight's NCAA game.  The staff and people were all very professional and accomodating.

    First chance I got to see Sean Burton (All-American) play.  Terrific player.  I was impressed with his game, but I think Braswell (junior on DeSales) really bothered him tonight.  Braswell has come into his own this season and I think the national scene is starting to take notice.  He guarded Burton all night, forcing him into 6-for-18 shooting and seven turnovers.  Added 27 points and 13 boards of his own (both career-highs).

    Little harsh to say Ithaca is a "choking disgrace".  I have not seen them play ever until tonight but from reading the stats, it seems as though they shoot a lot of three's every game.  Their numbers were staggering from three-land prior to the game.  I thought our defensive pressure really forced them into a tough shooting night.  The Bombers had a terrific season. did not end favorably but they should be proud of what they accomplished.

    FisherDynasty...in response to your quote of DeSales being "not very good, but disciplined"

    We are 24-5, Freedom Conference champions, with regular season wins over nationally ranked teams (St. John Fisher, Randolph-Macon, and now Ithaca, two of which are on the road), and in the Sweet 16.

    What exactly is your definition of a "Good" team?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on March 08, 2009, 12:07:55 AM
    About 8 days ago we were 24-1, with the 1 loss coming on a three-pointer after the buzzer that the refs mistakenly allowed (would have gone to OT).  Ranked in the d3hoops.com Top 10.  Next 2 games - noncompetitive loss to a .500 Nazareth team and then 2nd half melting against NCAA caliber DeSales.  Obviously DeSales is a very strong team, but come on.  We got a bye, we're at home, and then we do this.

    It's absolutely a choke job and a disgrace.  No other word for it.  Same damn thing happened in football against Dem Spicy Boyz (Curry).  Bombers798891 is exactly right, it's back to 14-12 seasons again.  IC had a tremendous opportunity to actually do something in a sport it's not known for excelling in, and it failed miserably.  Couldn't even win 1 damn playoff game.  Absolutely pathetic.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on March 08, 2009, 12:59:31 AM
    The seeds of this loss were sown long ago. When Ithaca decided that it would rather cast its lot with three unproven or inconsistent players—Cruz, Rogers, Leahy—rather than running a large chunk of its offense through one of the best players in the conference who is athletically superior to anyone he matches up with, Ithaca made these kind of results more likely. I counted two—TWO!—pick-and-rolls with Burton and Bostic tonight. Pathetic. Instead of working on things during those blowouts that would have proved helpful in tight games against equivalent competition, Ithaca stayed with its chuck-and-duck style because it worked against the lesser competition in the E8.

    And Ithaca's inability to make adjustments in the last two games is an indictment of Mullins. Naz and DeSales both spread out Ithaca, worked the shot clock and took Ithaca's ambivalent defenders to the hoop. And Mullins could never counter. Ithaca's frustrations would carry over to the offensive end where they would hike up the first quasi-open three-pointer they saw instead of taking the ball to the hoop and taking higher percentage spots. At what point should the coach be REQUIRED to say, "hey, guys, we're shooting 16% from three right now, let's try getting to the hoop or getting it to our big guys down low?" I'd wonder if Mullins ever said this, but looking at the amount of 3's taken, I already know the answer to that.

    This will always be an Ithaca team who will be remembered fondly for their great regular season successes, plenty of school records and probably the best player the young conference has seen. But it will also be remembered for never winning an E8 Tourney game, nor a NCAA game. At the end of the day, I think there's a fair argument that this group actually underachieved. They just never got it done when the chips were down in the big games. It's harsh, but probably true.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: John McGraw on March 08, 2009, 03:11:00 AM
    And with another basketball season in the books, the baseball team opens up its' schedule on Sunday. After two straight heartbreaks in the tournament for football and men's hoops, hopefully the baseball team can right the ship.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 08, 2009, 03:49:25 AM
    Quote from: John McGraw on March 08, 2009, 03:11:00 AM
    And with another basketball season in the books, the baseball team opens up its' schedule on Sunday. After two straight heartbreaks in the tournament for football and men's hoops, hopefully the baseball team can right the ship.

    Doubtful. When's the last time they made it out of the regionals? I remember when I mentioned to Coach V, that the Basketball team never won an E8 tourney game he said "Kind of like us and the regionals"

    It's a problem a lot of the premier sports at IC have. The Men's lax team went five straight years without winning one before last year. The men's soccer team has had the same problem. Thank god for women's soccer and softball
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on March 08, 2009, 04:40:31 PM
    I just cant believe he wouldnt run more 2 man action with Burton and Bostic. I understand live by the 3 die by the 3 blah blah but when you have 2 players of their caliber on the same D3 court you need to isolate them. Just makes me sick that this team was one and done.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 08, 2009, 09:01:39 PM
    dsu  think desales is a good team.  they are very disciplined and fundamental and braswel is talented at the pg position.  I think they are a top 25 team (20-25) range at best though.  I dont think they have the horses inside or the wing play to be considered a top caliber teams that ive seen in the past.  they beat fisher yes, but fisher is down compared to prior years.  I think randolph macon may even be down as well.  great win against ithaca though they are won of the tougher teams in the bracket and good luck in the rest of the games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: BJ - DSU SID on March 09, 2009, 12:15:35 AM
    Fair enough...appreciate your insight and your well wishes.

    I hope we can continue this run...it's been a fun season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 09, 2009, 07:40:05 AM
    Well, we're done..... I can't knock IC, while my season was made when the Tigers won the E8 Tourney, I think our loss in the NCAA was a telling tale..We really were not a strong conference, actually we are pretty weak...Yea we have some good players, very few high quality GAME coaches (but good guys who work with the players off the court, which has to count)...BUT game situations :(....   I think the conference will take another step back next year as well. (without knowing the freshman coming)...It'll be fun during league play because it will be competitive, and basically wide open as to who will excel........This was certainly a tell tale week for the E-8........BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on March 09, 2009, 11:27:54 AM
    Haha, down next year may be an understatement.  Again, we don't know who will come in, but it's rare that freshman come in and completely dominate the conference.  So, let's look at the "who's who" the E8 is losing:


    Sean Burton
    Jeff Bostic
    Virgil Gray
    Anthony Passalacqua
    Michael Baker
    Mark Carson
    Jan Cocozziello
    Doug Herring
    Ryan McAdam


    ....I'd put the senior e8 team up against any d3 team in the country.  Great group there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on March 09, 2009, 01:10:40 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on March 09, 2009, 11:27:54 AM
    Haha, down next year may be an understatement.  Again, we don't know who will come in, but it's rare that freshman come in and completely dominate the conference.  So, let's look at the "who's who" the E8 is losing:


    Sean Burton
    Jeff Bostic
    Virgil Gray
    Anthony Passalacqua
    Michael Baker
    Mark Carson
    Jan Cocozziello
    Doug Herring
    Ryan McAdam


    ....I'd put the senior e8 team up against any d3 team in the country.  Great group there.

    Great team.  Who would you get to coach it?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on March 09, 2009, 02:31:07 PM
    Kornaker and the Alfred coach are the 2 best in the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 09, 2009, 02:44:49 PM
    If i were to have a starting five id have

    burton
    coco crisp
    Ryan McAdam
    Bostic
    Carson
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on March 09, 2009, 02:55:46 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 09, 2009, 02:44:49 PM
    If i were to have a starting five id have

    burton
    coco crisp
    Ryan McAdam
    Bostic
    Carson

    That's a LOT of shots.  Part of my duties, back in the day, was keeping stats for our girls JV team.  This particular season they had quite a good team.  Finished undefeated in fact.  One game that stands out was one where they took 83 shots.  In 32 minutes.  With an actual team playing defense.  I would bet that the team listed above would take that many.  From just the guard spots.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on March 09, 2009, 05:01:26 PM
    Quote from: NaztyNate on March 09, 2009, 02:31:07 PM
    Kornaker and the Alfred coach are the 2 best in the E8.

    Kornaker has at least won some games and had some tourney appearances. What has Wellman done?
    He has coached in the E8 for one season, leading Alfred to an 8-17 overall record and 3-13 record in the conference. That was good for 8th place, edging out Elmira by one game. They also were three wins away from 7th place Stevens in league play.

    I guess I'm just wondering what credentials he's got to make him one of the two best coaches in the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 10, 2009, 07:42:17 AM
    Nasty, I actually chuckled at your question of what credentials does Wellman have........  WHO ELSE IS THERE..... Connolly would probably get my vote with Kornaker.... BUT that is really it. let's face it you had to prepare for Alfred, because they could beat you (all coaching) but I am not going to get into a debate over Wellman as a coaching genius. This conference lacks great coaches.......ALL NICE GUYS but a lot of flaws. We saw IC's lack of discipline with all those 3's taken and no adjustment. Even with only 3 losses they probably underachived..tough spot for a coach..I think RIT overachieved, but could have used a better game plan in NCAA> Utica probably played right to what they should have. I believe Fisher overachieved, albeit late season collapse... maybe not a collapse at all, just playing to real potential. NAZ really had no form at all........ no defense and seemed to ad lib, except for IC game in E 8 tourney.. one game well coached.. why not all year? Hartwick, actually could have been a little better. However they did scare some of the top teams as did Alfred.  Stevens was a complete disappointment, how many close games did they not close out.. because of extremely poor foul shooting and no floor general...Elmira was Elmira...who knows as wide open as it may be next year, they could be in the mix... Hey coaches... no knock on any of you....... As I said earlier, I belive you are all nice guys and help these kids off the court immensley... just an opinion from an E 8 junkie.......what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NaztyNate on March 10, 2009, 11:11:26 AM
    I was the one who nominated Wellman, not the one who questioned him. And I nominated him with Kornaker because of those exact reasons. Alfred was a tough game this year for the first time in a long time simply because they were well coached. They are extremely young and in my opinion will be very good down the road with them getting older and the rest of the E8 getting thinner. And your assessment of the rest of the E8 coaches is dead on. Extremely nice guys who are "game management challenged". The Empire 8 is a place to go if you want to get a decent job when youre 23 or if you need a positive father figure role model. It is not a place to attend if you wish you to go to Final Fours......Not saying there is anything wrong with that, just stating the facts.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 10, 2009, 01:28:39 PM
    Sorry Nasty, your right Buck questioned Wellman, I told you guys I am too old.....As you read my post I agree Alfred was all coaching and I believe next years E 8 is WIDE OPEN........the league loses a lot of talent.........You are also right these schools are the place to be for an education which I guess is the bottom line..........THAT I DO KNOW.... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: owen on March 10, 2009, 05:39:58 PM
    Agreed. Maybe that's part of why we love D3? Last bastion of the true athlete scholar?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: clearconceit on March 10, 2009, 11:10:48 PM
    Not sure about the order of coaches.  I know we had the best one with Andy.  not the same without him around.
    Just from this guys opinion the 3 toughest jobs are Elmira, Alfred, and Hartwick.  Not sure any of the Rochester schools should ever lose to them.
    Perspective is important.  Hartwick winning the ECAC's is pretty amazing really. 
    Of the 3, Hartwick has seperated themselves from that group.
    Kudos to those kids and Coach Culpo for their season.

    As far as ranking coaches based on winning national championships this league is not a national championship league.
    John Wooden wouldn't win a championship in this league.  Get real.  So from that standpoint nobody is a good coach I guess.
    What I saw Coach Goody do here was terrific.  We were a bad program and when he left we right near the top.  Without the advantages of many of the schools in this league.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on March 11, 2009, 11:15:43 AM
    Quote from: clearconceit on March 10, 2009, 11:10:48 PM
    Not sure about the order of coaches.  I know we had the best one with Andy.  not the same without him around.
    Just from this guys opinion the 3 toughest jobs are Elmira, Alfred, and Hartwick.  Not sure any of the Rochester schools should ever lose to them.
    Perspective is important.  Hartwick winning the ECAC's is pretty amazing really. 
    Of the 3, Hartwick has seperated themselves from that group.
    Kudos to those kids and Coach Culpo for their season.

    As far as ranking coaches based on winning national championships this league is not a national championship league.
    John Wooden wouldn't win a championship in this league.  Get real.  So from that standpoint nobody is a good coach I guess.
    What I saw Coach Goody do here was terrific.  We were a bad program and when he left we right near the top.  Without the advantages of many of the schools in this league.

    I agree for the most part. Goody was the best, but he is gone.   I don't know how the votes broke down but Culpo is a very good and deserved serious consideration for coach of the year.  Hartwick is a tough place to recruit.   Put him at Ithaca, Fisher or even Utica and he would do very well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 18, 2009, 05:27:00 AM
    All-East Region Team just announced and no surprise as Sean Burton is named Player of the Year and Coach Mullins named Coach of the Year. Empire 8 players captured 5 of the 10 spots. Congratulations to all.

    Men's All-East Region Team
    Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools. All SIDs in the region were given the opportunity to vote.

    Player of the Year: Sean Burton, G, Ithaca
    Coach of the Year: Jim Mullins, Ithaca
    Rookie of the Year: Chad Burridge, F, Oswego State

    First team

    Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
    G Sean Burton Ithaca Sr. Yorkville, N.Y.
    G Scott Morton Geneseo State Sr. Syracuse, N.Y.
    F Mike Chmielowiec Rochester Sr. Batavia, N.Y.
    F Sam Simmons RPI Sr. Newburgh, N.Y.
    C Mark Carson Rochester Tech Sr. Voorheesville, N.Y.

    Second team

    Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
    G Corey McAdam Nazareth Jr. Fairport, N.Y.
    G Tom Wopperer St. Lawrence Sr. Manlius, N.Y.
    F Ryan McAdam Nazareth Sr. Fairport, N.Y.
    F David Golembiowski SUNYIT So. Barneveld, N.Y.
    C Jeff Bostic Ithaca Sr. Geneva, N.Y.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 18, 2009, 07:35:43 AM
    All East Region team looks right on the money to me........ Coach of the year could have gone many ways, but Mullins is certainly not a bad pick....while speaking about coaches, this is the time of year we usually start to hear about coaches leaving, "one way or the other".... anybody have a feel for coaching changes on the Horizon?????
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on March 18, 2009, 04:43:59 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on March 09, 2009, 05:01:26 PM
    Quote from: NaztyNate on March 09, 2009, 02:31:07 PM
    Kornaker and the Alfred coach are the 2 best in the E8.

    Kornaker has at least won some games and had some tourney appearances. What has Wellman done?
    He has coached in the E8 for one season, leading Alfred to an 8-17 overall record and 3-13 record in the conference. That was good for 8th place, edging out Elmira by one game. They also were three wins away from 7th place Stevens in league play.

    I guess I'm just wondering what credentials he's got to make him one of the two best coaches in the E8.

    Without opportunity to recruit, Wellman inherited the same group that finished 2-23 (1-15 E8) in 2007-08 and, without a "big man" and lack of depth, improved to 7-18 (3-13 E8), winning AT FISHER, nearly upsetting Ithaca at the Bulb, and, overall, shed the label of an "Easy W."

    Pep had opportunity to chat with a team member (who saw limited playing time this season) during the AU Habitat Collegiate Challenge Florida Trip. The team member spoke highly of Wellman's game-time (all business) coaching and his off-court approachability and down-to-earth personality. Further, he spoke highly of Wellman's knowledge of the game and his sophisticated offensive scheme. Pep witnessed the rookie coach's outstanding game management. Should his recruiting match his other strengths, and Pep has every reason to believe they will, AU should be among the E8's cream.

    And, after a successful gig at the Saxons' Senior Day Game, AU Pep Band could become a regular feature of Saxon Basketball at McLane Center in the near future.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on March 18, 2009, 09:25:48 PM
    It's been quite some time since I've posted so let me catch up...

    First off- it's unfortunate that IC couldn't put it together and make a run in the NCAA's. They were given an amazing opportunity by the NCAA when given the first round bye, and chance to host. They could've made a run but instead both E-8 teams were out after their first games. Kudos to the Ithaca seniors for a fine career, too bad they could never take care of business in the postseason (0-2 in E-8 tourney).

    Second - that group of E-8 seniors is quite impressive. Seniors next year will be good (first names come to mind are C. McAdam, M. Newman, S. Young) but nowhere near as good, or as deep.

    Third - Concerning the All-Region team, I would put both or either the McAdam bros over one, or both of the Morton, Sam Simmons duo. I'm not high on Morton, and I'm guessing Simmons was mentioned due to his teams postseason success...Just my two cents there. I certainly do agree with Carson, Burton & Chmielowic for sure though.

    Fourth - Coaching changes...a few weeks ago it was announced that Coach Daley at Naz is retiring but it was overlooked by the first week of the NCAA tourney. Haven't heard any news about a new hiring but I'm sure something would be happening soon. We'll see..

    Good luck to everyone in their NCAA pools!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on March 19, 2009, 12:53:05 AM
    e8bballfan -  Can not speak for Morton but I can tell that Simmons was the real deal.  He WAS the team at RPI.  He had almost no other true option, he was double and sometimes even triple teamed but he still willed his team to some really good wins.  SLU is a very good team and they (RPI) beat them twice riding Simmons like a horse. He played defense and usually close to 40 minutes a game unless he got into foul trouble (which is my one knock against him). He is definitely a deserving first teamer.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 19, 2009, 01:22:51 PM
    Hey PEP, Wellman did a great job.... now lets see that recruiting job....... next year is wide open and basically anyone has a shot......I give Fisher an edge, since they played young this year and did well early on... BUT really wide open...  As we get closer next year I will give my pre-season observations based on basically nothing........Also, awhile back I made a statment that Dudek, the girls point guard from Stevens was the best D-# point5 guard I have ever seen. ( I deal in supurlatives too much) but if anyone is interested take a look at the Stevens WEB...Gives a nice lookat just how good she was... she made ALL EAST FIRST TEAM..... among other accolades............. but what do I know...........   ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 22, 2009, 09:16:34 AM
    Congratulations to RIT's Mark Carson and Ithaca's Sean Burton who were named to the D3Hoops  All America Team. Carson made the 3rd team, while Burton made the 4th team. Rochester U's Mike Chmielowiec was named to the 2nd team. 
    Here's the complete list:


    2008-09 Men's All-America Team
    Coach of the Year: Glenn Robinson, Franklin and Marshall
    Player of the Year: Jimmy Bartolotta, G, MIT
    Rookie of the Year: Justin Hallowell, G, Wooster

    First Team

    Pos.  Name  Yr. School Hometown 
    G
    Jimmy Bartolotta
    MIT
    Sr.
    Littleton, Colo.

    G
    Kent Raymond
    Wheaton (Ill.)
    Sr.
    Palatine, Ind.

    G
    Aaron Thompson
    Washington U.
    Jr.
    Elida, Ohio

    F
    Jesse Reimink
    Hope
    Sr.
    Hudsonville, Mich.

    C
    Jeff Skemp
    UW-Platteville
    Sr.
    Hazel Green, Wis.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Second Team

    Pos.  Name  Yr. School Hometown 
    G
    Sean Wallis
    Washington U.
    Jr.
    Northbrook, Ill.

    G
    Myles McKay
    UW-Whitewater
    Sr.
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.

    F
    Mike Chmielowiec
    Rochester
    Sr.
    Batavia, N.Y.

    F
    Zach Johnson
    Carleton
    Sr.
    Apple Valley, Minn.

    C
    Brent Ruch
    Elmhurst
    Sr.
    Farmer City, Ill.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Third Team

    Pos.  Name  Yr. School Hometown 
    G
    Steve Djurickovic
    Carthage
    So.
    Pleasant Prairie, Wis.

    G
    Tim Madson
    Bethel
    Sr.
    Redwood Falls, Minn.

    F
    D.J. Marsh
    UW-Oshkosh
    Jr.
    Bayside, Wis.

    F
    Tyler Kathan
    Keene State
    Sr.
    Ludlow, Vt.

    C
    Mark Carson
    Rochester Tech
    Sr.
    Voorheesville, N.Y.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Fourth Team

    Pos.  Name  Yr. School Hometown 
    G
    Sean Burton
    Ithaca
    Sr.
    Yorkville, N.Y.

    G
    Rashawn Johnson
    Wesley
    Sr.
    Selbyville, Del.

    F
    Richard Jean-Baptiste
    Brooklyn
    Jr.
    Queens, N.Y.

    F
    Brian Baskauskas
    Amherst
    Sr.
    Palo Alto, Calif.

    C
    Tyler Sanborn
    Guilford
    Jr.
    Mount Airy, N.C.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Honorable Mention

    Pos.  Name  Yr. School Hometown 
    G
    Ben Rudin
    Middlebury
    Sr.
    Scarsdale, N.Y.

    G
    Ryan Kroeger
    Lawrence
    Sr.
    Glendale, Wis.

    F
    Nate Stahl
    Capital
    Sr.
    St. Henry, Ohio

    F
    Brian Fogerty
    Fontbonne
    Sr.
    Winfield, Mo.

    C
    Jose Guitian
    Lasell
    Sr.
    Miami, Fla.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 24, 2009, 08:06:54 AM
    Gobombers if your still around,,, I know I said I wouldn't debate the Dudek issue, and I'm not because I have been told I speak in superlatives too often, so while she may not be the best I have ever seen in D3 look at these stats.......1200 career points, 800 career points, 600 assists.. ( actually 669 which is 6th all time).  2nd team All American..........  Not bad..... Hey I only saw her play about a half dozen times, but great ( there I go again) court sense.........

    HEY HAVE ALL GREAT SUMMER TO ALL MY BUDDIES OUT THERE....... THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE WITH ME, I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE MORE WELL VERSED IN THIS FIELD, BUT IT MAKES THE TIME GO BY FOR ME.... CAN'T WAIT FOR NEXT SEASON, THE FUR SHOULD REALLY FLY......BUT WHAT DO I KNOW??? ;) ;) ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on April 05, 2009, 01:06:51 PM
    Naz hasn't named a new head coach yet? Isn't it getting late in the recruiting game??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on April 06, 2009, 12:24:53 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on April 05, 2009, 01:06:51 PM
    Naz hasn't named a new head coach yet? Isn't it getting late in the recruiting game??
    Any word on potential candidates?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: WNYHoops on April 07, 2009, 10:24:34 AM
    From talking to some people I know I have heard Kevin Brodrick's name from Oswego mentioned. Former Naz player who has done a great job at Oswego. Does it make sense?? Seems like a lateral move, but allure of alma mater might be enough to make the move.

    What about long-time assistant Toby Brown? Has he burned bridges or maybe he does not want the head job. Kevin Downey has helped out there the past couple years but he is young and inexperienced.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on April 09, 2009, 04:03:18 AM
    Quote from: WNYHoops on April 07, 2009, 10:24:34 AM
    From talking to some people I know I have heard Kevin Brodrick's name from Oswego mentioned. Former Naz player who has done a great job at Oswego. Does it make sense?? Seems like a lateral move, but allure of alma mater might be enough to make the move.

    What about long-time assistant Toby Brown? Has he burned bridges or maybe he does not want the head job. Kevin Downey has helped out there the past couple years but he is young and inexperienced.

    I have also heard that Broderick is going to Nazareth and that Oswego was taking applications.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on April 13, 2009, 08:56:42 PM
    Nazareth will make it official in the next few days that Kevin Broderick is the new head coach of the men's basketball team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on April 14, 2009, 05:05:02 PM
    http://nazathletics.com/news/2009/4/10/MBB_0410090831.aspx (http://nazathletics.com/news/2009/4/10/MBB_0410090831.aspx)

    Link to the story
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: theoriginalupstate on April 16, 2009, 03:49:33 PM
    Rochester D&C is reporting that JP Chase is pulling their name off of their annual tournament.

    http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20090416/SPORTS/90416023
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on April 16, 2009, 04:18:41 PM
    Thanks. Sad news. Added it to What We're Reading.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on April 17, 2009, 05:54:58 PM
    No Chase tournament, no more Hamilton in the Liberty League - what is this upstate D3 world coming to?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: slickyquick on April 17, 2009, 09:19:58 PM
    Really too bad about the Chase. Rumors are swirling about who will join the Liberty League. I've heard 3 prominent schools are the Empire 8 are heading that way. Should be interesting to see how this all figures itself out.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on April 18, 2009, 12:16:02 AM
    We've heard Ithaca, Naz and RIT.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on April 18, 2009, 06:35:04 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 18, 2009, 12:16:02 AM
    We've heard Ithaca, Naz and RIT.

    What are the odds that the LL would take all three?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on April 18, 2009, 10:14:03 AM
    Gives them 10 after Hamilton left. Shores up football against Susquehanna's departure. I understand it helps them in some other sports where they are close to an AQ.

    If the interest on both sides is real, I'd say it's a slam-dunk choice.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: slickyquick on April 18, 2009, 10:43:31 AM
    I heard RIT was the first to try and make a move but the LL wanted Ithaca because they fit "their criteria" better.

    Next question is, if this all happens what happens to the Empire 8? Then, who will replace these schools? Will they raid the Skyline and give Stevens a travel partner?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on April 19, 2009, 11:28:28 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 18, 2009, 10:14:03 AM
    Gives them 10 after Hamilton left. Shores up football against Susquehanna's departure. I understand it helps them in some other sports where they are close to an AQ.

    If the interest on both sides is real, I'd say it's a slam-dunk choice.

    So this is in all sports? Certainly an interesting move regarding football for Ithaca.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on April 21, 2009, 08:05:29 AM
    Wow, this is interesting STUFF........  If any of the 3.. RIT, NAZ and IC, don't go it will be NAZ....if all 3 go the Empire 8 could actually become the Empire 8 (rather than 9) again, by getting 2 teams.... IF they do come from the Skyline.. I would think Purchase, Mt. St. Mary's and Bard are possibilities, simply based on location.   MSM just hired a new coach, Ryan Kudlubowski ( sorry if spelling is wrong) who went to Uof R. BUT I really have no insight PURE guessing......... Who knows maybe someone else leaves the E 8....... seems anything can happen....what do I know ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on April 21, 2009, 09:30:21 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on April 21, 2009, 08:05:29 AM
    Wow, this is interesting STUFF........  If any of the 3.. RIT, NAZ and IC, don't go it will be NAZ....if all 3 go the Empire 8 could actually become the Empire 8 (rather than 9) again, by getting 2 teams.... IF they do come from the Skyline.. I would think Purchase, Mt. St. Mary's and Bard are possibilities, simply based on location.   MSM just hired a new coach, Ryan Kudlubowski ( sorry if spelling is wrong) who went to Uof R. BUT I really have no insight PURE guessing......... Who knows maybe someone else leaves the E 8....... seems anything can happen....what do I know ;) 

    You got the spelling right, almost.  Kad's been an assitant at UR for the last couple of years (played there as well) and the guys are really going to miss him.  He's should do a great job at MSM, and help their bigs a lot.  Very nice guy and a great choice for MSM's new committment to sports.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: WNYHoops on April 21, 2009, 09:32:27 AM
    I would think if one school does indeed leave the Empire 8 for the LL it would not look to expand, just stay with the original 8 schools. However, if 3 leave as speculated on this site the Empire 8 would have to look to expand. Instead of moving downstate toward the Skyline - where Bard, Purchase and MSM are geographically logical but their competition level in all sports is nowhere near Empire 8 standards - I would think they would look to central NY schools like Keuka and Cazenovia. Both of them traditionally play a lot of Empire 8 schools in all sports and they make sense from a money standpoint. They are both more competitive than the Skyline schools and currently reside in the ever-changing NEAC. Just a thought.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on April 21, 2009, 09:49:26 AM
    I think it would be important to remember the football implications. The conference already will lose its football automatic bid in 2011 if it doesn't come up with a seventh football program. Losing another would make it extremely difficult.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on April 21, 2009, 11:14:19 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 21, 2009, 09:49:26 AM
    I think it would be important to remember the football implications. The conference already will lose its football automatic bid in 2011 if it doesn't come up with a seventh football program. Losing another would make it extremely difficult.

    Do you think Ithaca's decision to possibly leave is at all based in that? They didn't have a lot of success making the playoffs as a Pool B team under Welch. I can't imagine they'd be thrilled to go back to it. I know the E8 has had trouble picking up another team; I wonder if IC just decided it would be easier for them to join the LL than hope the E8 would pick up another team?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on April 23, 2009, 11:01:47 AM
    Pool B has changed a little bit since then but I suspect that football is part of the equation. The LL would also have an automatic bid in baseball that Ithaca could compete for, and I would suspect there may be other similar instances.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: WNYHoops on April 24, 2009, 01:10:40 PM
    I hear now it is almost assured that Nazareth will be moving to the LL to take Hamilton's spot. Not sure if LL is looking to add any more. That would leave both conferences with 8 schools.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on April 30, 2009, 08:22:20 AM
    Someone brought up an interesting question, which, (no surprise) I didn't know the answer....I'm sure one of you guys will know. If a student plays 3 years in a D 3 sport.... use basketball because that's this web. He/she  graduates....... they go to another D 3 school for graduate studies. Can they play one year of basketball at that school?   This came up due to the Paulus issue... going to Syracuse to play football. I know it's a little different. I believe a student has 5 years eligibility to play college sports, 4 years in one sport. Paulus 5th year in different sport.... but it raised the above question........ 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: theoriginalupstate on April 30, 2009, 04:41:42 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on April 30, 2009, 08:22:20 AM
    Someone brought up an interesting question, which, (no surprise) I didn't know the answer....I'm sure one of you guys will know. If a student plays 3 years in a D 3 sport.... use basketball because that's this web. He/she  graduates....... they go to another D 3 school for graduate studies. Can they play one year of basketball at that school?   This came up due to the Paulus issue... going to Syracuse to play football. I know it's a little different. I believe a student has 5 years eligibility to play college sports, 4 years in one sport. Paulus 5th year in different sport.... but it raised the above question........ 

    D3 uses the 10 semester rule....

    10 semesters of full time enrollment to complete 4 seasons of sport(s)...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 01, 2009, 10:59:12 AM
    Thanks for helping out UPSTATE.... so let me give you a scenario... Young lady plays Lax Freshman Sophomore and Senior year. Same young lady played Tennis Junior year. All at same D 3 school in 8 semesters.  She attends another D 3 school full time Grad student. Can she play
    1. LAX one year.
    2. LAX and Tennis one year.

    All within the 10 semesters? 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: WNYHoops on May 01, 2009, 02:17:29 PM
    She can't play at all in graduate school unless she is at the same school she received her undergrad degree from and is still within the 10 semesters as Upstate pointed out. The deal with Paulus playing football in grad school is a Division I rule where he could play another sport as long as it is within 5 years of his initial enrollment. But at DIII you cannot play in grad school if you have a degree from another institution.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 04, 2009, 09:14:29 AM
    WNY and Upstate, thanks for the response. I get it..... getting answers on this web is easier than google.........as always what do I know, but I do know you guys are great. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on May 21, 2009, 09:25:51 AM
    Well, the E8 lost another coach, as Paul Culpo has left Hartwick to take the Castleton job. Any thoughts on his replacements yet? Perhaps Chris Connolly will try to jump to his third E8 team (Elmira, Utica and Hartwick), since he played at Hartwick. That's not likely, though, since he didn't get the job when Culpo was hired and Utica has a better recent tradition.

    Thoughts?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on May 21, 2009, 10:14:01 AM
    That's to bad, but understandable.  Culpo has done a great job rebuilding at Hartwick, but it is a tough place to recruit to.  I'm Not sure Castleton is an upward move, but the the pay is  probably better. 

    I doubt Connelly will move - he likes it at Utica and it is, at least right now, a better job.


    Quote from: buck1053 on May 21, 2009, 09:25:51 AM
    Well, the E8 lost another coach, as Paul Culpo has left Hartwick to take the Castleton job. Any thoughts on his replacements yet? Perhaps Chris Connolly will try to jump to his third E8 team (Elmira, Utica and Hartwick), since he played at Hartwick. That's not likely, though, since he didn't get the job when Culpo was hired and Utica has a better recent tradition.

    Thoughts?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on May 21, 2009, 02:47:09 PM
    The Connolly quip wasn't serious, that would be too much job hopping in the same league and, like I said, he didn't get the job before (and as a basketball alumnus from Hartwick), so I'm not sure he'd garner that much interest.

    The Culpo news was first reported on this site yesterday (May 20), so there's probably not too much grapevine talk yet. I was just wondering if anyone had heard anything.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on May 22, 2009, 11:39:57 AM
    Culpo is an interesting coach. Recruiting tough at Hartwick and he had some tough kids. Never any depth and hard to tell how his X's and O's were, with Coco there. Kinda had to let him go......  I'm going to guess an assistant from E-8 maybe Fisher.

    JUST A GUESS!!!!!!! ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on May 22, 2009, 04:17:54 PM
    You think recruiting is tough at Hartwick? Try Alfred! Yet, from what I've heard, Coach Dale Wellman has eight recruits who have paid their deposits and are coming from California, Texas and Virginia, to name a few states, in addition to NY.

    Pep is getting pumped for AU football and basketball and is hoping to see some enthusiasm from the student body in 2009-2010...the AU Pep Band needs more members to make appearances at both football and basketball games.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on May 25, 2009, 09:50:43 AM
    Quote from: WNYHoops on April 24, 2009, 01:10:40 PM
    I hear now it is almost assured that Nazareth will be moving to the LL to take Hamilton's spot. Not sure if LL is looking to add any more. That would leave both conferences with 8 schools.

    Has there been any updates on the schools that were rumored to be leaving the E8, and heading to the LL? The LL profile for member schools seems to fit RIT and Ithaca closely, but I hear Naz is a prime candidate. My hope is that none of them leave, but who knows. Any information out there?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on June 01, 2009, 12:47:40 PM
    Any new on the Hartwick search? 
    an yes AUPep...I agree, Alfred would also be a very tough place recruit.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 04, 2009, 02:58:36 PM
    Haven't heard anything on the Hartwick grapevine, has anyone else?

    As for recruiting, from what I understand, Alfred would get the nod above Hartwick, not necessarily for the location, but for how recruits can get packaged. Deals are better at AU than Wick, believe it or not.

    And, for the E8-LL scuttlebutt, I haven't heard anything further, but it seems that Ithaca would be the better fit for the LL, if they are only going to take one team. They are closer in proximity than Naz and would make a better travel partner for Hobart. Naz would be the second best out of the E8, and RIT really doesn't fit well in the LL, based on profile.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on June 08, 2009, 02:00:58 PM
    I would think if anything were going to happen, (an E-8 going to LL)  should have happened already. Unless it will happen the following year. BUT what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on June 08, 2009, 05:27:01 PM
    I don't think any of the discussed changes were to take effect in 2009-10.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: btlew on June 09, 2009, 11:39:10 AM
    Noticed this in the Sunday Democrat and Chronicle and it has kind of flown under the radar here:

    http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20090606/SPORTS09/906060322/1007/SPORTS/RIT+joining+Liberty+League

    Interesting that it was in the paper ... but nothing on RITs site or the Liberty League site.  Maybe due to the 'pending approval' caveat that was stated in the story.

    I find it interesting that people on this board thought Naz or Ithaca were better fits.  I all along thought RIT was a better fit given the D1 hockey that many of the other schools share.  From a student-athlete perspective, I would think that RIT shares more in common with RPI, Clarkson, etc. than pretty much anyone in the Empire 8.  There were rumors they tried unsuccessfully to make the switch a few years ago ... I am surprised it took this long to find a new home.

    Now the question is what does RIT do with some of their local rivalries?  UR will always stay on the schedule and them switching leagues does not impact basketball.  But without the Chase, do they try and keep an annual series with Fisher and Naz?  Cost wise it makes sense ... but I do not think RIT was ever a big fan of Fisher joining the Empire 8.  Maybe this gives them the ability to distance themselves a bit from them.

    Will be interesting to see the reaction during their lame duck season forthcoming ...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on June 09, 2009, 04:32:02 PM
    Pep has it from a reliable source that, indeed, RIT, effective September 2011, will be moving to the Liberty League for all sports, while it appears Ithaca and Nazareth will not. Pep is not sure whether the LL presidents have voted yet but it appears the LL is set on RIT.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on June 10, 2009, 11:11:18 AM
    Those who follow @d3hoops on Twitter know who the other team joining the LL is.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on June 10, 2009, 11:38:29 AM
    Pep doesn't Twitter....   :'(   ...so RIT will go to the LL along with "Bard"? Ho-bard dat?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on June 10, 2009, 01:53:35 PM
    UGH!!!!!    I am not happy about leaving..... I'll have to study Stevens real hard this year, so I can stay involved on this site......... PEP I know you are a great source, but I really hope it doesn't happen. OH well, they must know what they are doing........ :'( 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on June 11, 2009, 01:13:28 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 10, 2009, 11:11:18 AM
    Those who follow @d3hoops on Twitter know who the other team joining the LL is.

    I about fell off my chair in shock when I read that "tweet" - BARD????  Playing sports in an actual conference?  Will they ever go .500 in any sport?  Will they even win 1 conference game in any sport in their first season?  Wondering what the LL was thinking in that decision.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on June 11, 2009, 09:43:57 AM
    Pep has to agree....Bard went 1-24 in men's basketball in 2008-09, with the Raptors' first win of the season coming in their "regular season" finale...against Yeshiva.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on June 11, 2009, 10:41:07 AM
    I agree.  RIT does seem like the best fit for the LL, but Bard?  They can't compete with the low end teams on thier schedule now, how can they be competative in the LL?  Unless Bard is going to place a new, well funded, priority on Athletics, this is going to be very ugly.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 29, 2009, 12:51:01 PM
    Any word on the Hartwick vacancy yet? There's been no announcement on a new coach yet, and no chatter here either. It seems like they should be making a decision sometime soon, so at least the new coach has a couple of months to settle in before school starts.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on July 02, 2009, 02:36:53 PM
    I have heard Todd McGuinness, who's an assistant at Case Western Reserve, for the Hartwick job.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on July 02, 2009, 03:55:58 PM
    McGuinness would make sense, he was an assistant at Hartwick at one time.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on July 03, 2009, 09:41:37 AM
    Here's the release from Hartwick:

    http://www.hartwick.edu/x27566.xml
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on July 10, 2009, 09:49:21 AM
    Does anyone know what the E8 plans to do about RIT leaving? Are they going to stay with 8 teams, and go back to the travel partner system? Are they looking for a new member to replace RIT?

    No question the leage is taking a hit athletically and academically with RIT jumping to the LL.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: huskiect on August 12, 2009, 10:30:10 PM
    Does anybody know who is coming in this yearr?


    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 07, 2009, 08:52:36 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on March 07, 2009, 08:14:41 PM
    57-48 with 7:35 left. Keep hiking 3's, boys. Ithaca just can't adjust. Mullins getting outcoached. The plan for IC's opponent is easy: frustrate them, work the shotclock and then take them off the dribble. It's now or never for the Bombers. Can this group win ONE postseason game of any importance in their careers? We'll see.

    Ithaca, down 66-53, mounts a frantic rally over the last four minutes, but just dug themselves too deep a hole. Season comes to a disappointing end as DeSales tops the Bombers, 77-71 

    It's amazing to me that a team loaded with so many good free throw shooters wouldn't attempt to draw some fouls and get to the line where they would have a significant advantage over other teams and instead just guns threes. Ithaca takes a total of five free throws, and throws up a staggering 41 threes.

    Also, what happened to this team's defense? Nazareth turns out a nice little 63.3% and then DeSales goes over 50%. Just can't let that happen.

    It's a shame, because this group of kids really could have put together a special season with a nice run here in the NCAA's. It was a great regular season, but unfortunately, this team is going to be remembered more for what they didn't accomplish than what they did.

    Maybe that's a cynical outlook, and somewhat unfair to the team, but once the conference slate started, it became pretty apparent that the Bombers were going to cruise through the regular season and their performance in the NCAA's would define their legacy.

    41-9 in the regular season, 0-2 in the E8 Tourney, 0-1 in the NCAA's. I wouldn't go so far as to term the a "disgrace"...that's too harsh. However, they were a team unable to perform at their best when it mattered the most, and there's no debating that

    So where does Ithaca go from here? Most of the key players graduate, with Cruz, Marcus and Brown being the notables returning. Is it a return to the mediocre seasons of 14-12, 16-13 and the like that plagued the program from 2003-2007 before this group came into their own?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on August 18, 2009, 01:34:48 PM
    From the IC SID:

    "Former Ithaca basketball standout Sean Burton has signed a contract to play for the London Leopards of the English Basketball League (EBL)...The EBL is a semi-professional league founded in 2003. The London squad placed third of 12 teams in the 2008-09 season, compiling a 12-6 record. The team advanced to semi-final round of the league's playoffs. "

    Good to see he's still playing
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on August 24, 2009, 09:28:51 PM
    Bombers798891: That's awesome that Burton is continuing his career!

    Pep is excited that Coach Wellman has his first recruiting class now on campus.  Word has it there's some good talent in the freshman class. Pep is aware of recruits from as far away as Virginia, Texas and California. Go Saxons!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on August 25, 2009, 01:53:32 PM
    Hey Pep that's good news for the conference as a whole. Would love to see Alfred step up...... Although my boys are leaving soon. I am not thrilled about that. The Empire 8 is very competitive and I am slowly getting to know all the pieces. Anyone know who the Tigers are getting recruitwise. I heard a good big man coming, but from unrealiable source.  I heard Stevens has a pair of strong freshman forwards, and also Greco returning. Not sure if that's true, but they could sorely use him. The lack of a point guard hurt them significantly last year, and no one on bench stepped up. Being a Senior he could really ween a freshaman point if they have any.  Fisher shoud be set as all are back, I think. Naz and Ithaca lose alot and may be in rebuilding year. McAdam back but needs someone to pass to. My guys lose our best player, but rest are back.... Problem is Carson got a touch every possession. He will be a HUGE miss. Hartwick loses Cocco, and new coach. Utica loses their best, and I don't know anything about Elmira.  A little early but will post my pre-season predictions later in September. I know you guys can hardly wait.  ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on September 06, 2009, 07:11:06 PM
    Any information on what teams are bringing in for recruits this year? I know it is early in the school year, but I am interested to see what teams will have. Specifically Fisher is what I am looking for (I am a bit of a homer). What is IC bringing in to replace Burton and Bostic? Should be a fun year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on September 07, 2009, 01:13:06 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on September 06, 2009, 07:11:06 PM
    Any information on what teams are bringing in for recruits this year? I know it is early in the school year, but I am interested to see what teams will have. Specifically Fisher is what I am looking for (I am a bit of a homer). What is IC bringing in to replace Burton and Bostic? Should be a fun year.

    I hear the Bombers have an incoming PG who they think it better than Burton was at that age.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 08, 2009, 12:56:14 PM
    Cards and Bomber..... for what it's worth, I heard Tigers have a big coming, has talent, needs a year. (from unreliable source.. someone like me).  I did hear about a point going to IC, but I heard he needs a year as well.  I did not hear anything about the Cards... As you guys know, they had a good year with some young talent, they should be in good shape with what they have. But Korny is not staying PAT be sure of that. He would carry 25 guys if needed. Probably has something up his sleeve. I heard from one of my cronies in the city, Stevens alumn... that they have 2 forwards coming in... one can be good, two guards, small both projects, but one has some shooting ability.. needs a year to laern how to be a point.... The big rumor is Greco will be playing again this year. If that's true they move up quite a bit. They played entire year without a true point and need his leadership and court savvy... Again this all hearsay, and I could be completely wrong in every case, but at least the juices are beginning to flow a bit....... This will be a strange year. At this point no true clear cut "class of the race" but what do I know ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on September 09, 2009, 03:44:30 PM
    I remember reading in the D&C that the starting PG from Avon that was in the Super 15 is going to Fisher. I saw the kid play in Glens Falls when Avon won the Class C title and he was impressive. Undersized but he completely controlled both games, keeping his team under control and hitting big shots when he needed to. As long as he doesn't get overwhelmed physically I think he would be a good player for SJF.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 10, 2009, 07:15:04 AM
    Tigerfan2, anything on this big going to RIT/  or is it just a rumor.....what's your take on leaving the E8???  Thanks and good seeing you on the post. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on September 10, 2009, 01:29:40 PM
    FROMFAR, I haven't heard anything about the incoming players at RIT. Since I'm not in Western NY anymore I usually don't hear much about the team until the season starts. I knew about the kid from Avon because after seeing him play in Glens Falls I wondered where he was headed to school.

    Regarding the move from the E8 to the LL, I can't say I'm a fan of the move. I don't know much about the LL teams but I enjoyed watching RIT go up against the other Rochester schools as well as AU and IC. When I was in NY, the fact that you could catch a bunch of road games because the other schools were so close was an added bonus. Other than Hobart, none of the other LL schools are really that close in terms of being able to see a game and get back the same day without too much trouble.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 11, 2009, 07:48:32 AM
    Thanks Tiger, I agree, I am not thrilled with the move....I was glad when Stevens came in since I am in the city.   Gave me an opportunity to catch the Tigers once down here, and since some of my friends are Stevens grads I go to about 3-4 other conference games. When I go up to Rochester I plan around a couple of games, like you said, arae teams... Rochester, Naz, Fisher..... It's a whole new deal now......... I will still go to Stevens since my friends will be going, but no real ax to grind in those games...I will assume we may schedule the area teams out of conference...... Looking forward to the season........ This is going to be a fun year...looking forward to the posts. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on September 13, 2009, 11:24:04 AM
    Thanks for the info about the kid from Avon. Kornaker is a good recruiter and usually has some quality players coming in. Hopefully a Big is on the way to Pittsford.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on September 13, 2009, 06:19:35 PM
    Kornaker is really a good recruiter...Fisher still has Wopperer as well as a few young bigs who got minutes last year and Dan Evans returning from his injury. I would say they're my pre-season choice to win the league.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 14, 2009, 09:32:19 AM
    BBALLER, no question Korny can recruit. That and the fact that they had a good year with young talent last year should make them the pick, BUT I am waiting until after October 15 to give my picks (I know you guys can hardly wait for my picks).  I am waiting for some guided info from all of you on things I don't know ( which is almost everything), to help me... I do think this going to be an unusual year and as we know form doesn't always hold true in this league, the fact that may be less form than ever, should make it a surprising year.  BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on September 14, 2009, 09:40:33 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on September 13, 2009, 06:19:35 PM
    Kornaker is really a good recruiter...Fisher still has Wopperer as well as a few young bigs who got minutes last year and Dan Evans returning from his injury. I would say they're my pre-season choice to win the league.

    I am cautiously optomistic about the Fisher team this year. Last year, especially early, they showed some real good signs and I think they have some real talent coming back. If Kornaker can have another strong class come in, I think they can win the league, and get back to taht dominant type run that they had in the E8 before the last two years. I still think some of the other teams in the league have sort of caught up with them a little bit, but I think the last two years were rebuilding years, and this was the target year to get back.

    I hope anyway...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on September 15, 2009, 11:09:36 AM
    Didn't fisher also have a freshman last year (that was putting in work) tear his ACL early in the season?? What's the word there - redshirt? healthy? playing?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on September 15, 2009, 10:59:36 PM
    Oh crap I forgot about that guy. What was his name again?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 16, 2009, 12:44:45 PM
    SJ ... ;)was it Tyler Wescott????
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: haterinthehouse on October 04, 2009, 08:58:35 AM
    Ithaca alum and former assistant coach at Cornell University, Zach Spiker, named Head Men's Basketball Coach at Army.
    http://www.goarmysports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=48141&SPID=4606&DB_OEM_ID=11100&ATCLID=204806493
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on October 05, 2009, 11:13:47 AM
    SJFCards, to give you a little insight on the current year fisher team.  They will have 6'8 Evans back from injury as well as Wescott both play the 4 and 5 spots so that should help out Wopperer in the middle.  In addition, they are bringing in a 6'6-6'7 big that could possibly be the best big brought into fisher to date.  That should hold up in the region to help fisher win the E8.  Outside of the region, it probably won't be enough as the new big is young, and wopperer is a little light, and evans is in experienced.  The guard spots will be solid as usual with Newman, O Franklin, the fresh pg from last year and others.  I also believe they have a super athletic transfer coming in that could be the best athlete fisher has ever had.  That being said I would give them the #1 pre-season voting to win the conference as it does not appear to be many strong teams in the e8 this upcoming year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 11, 2009, 03:01:29 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on October 05, 2009, 11:13:47 AM
    SJFCards, to give you a little insight on the current year fisher team.  They will have 6'8 Evans back from injury as well as Wescott both play the 4 and 5 spots so that should help out Wopperer in the middle.  In addition, they are bringing in a 6'6-6'7 big that could possibly be the best big brought into fisher to date.  That should hold up in the region to help fisher win the E8.  Outside of the region, it probably won't be enough as the new big is young, and wopperer is a little light, and evans is in experienced.  The guard spots will be solid as usual with Newman, O Franklin, the fresh pg from last year and others.  I also believe they have a super athletic transfer coming in that could be the best athlete fisher has ever had.  That being said I would give them the #1 pre-season voting to win the conference as it does not appear to be many strong teams in the e8 this upcoming year.

    Wow that sounds great. I will take any type of above average talent at the 5 spot after the last few years. They always seem to be piecing it together at that center spot each year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on October 13, 2009, 08:45:40 PM
    Basketball practice official begins this week (Oct. 15) and Pep is interested to see what Coach Dale Wellman has brought to the court in his first recruiting class. Pep has seen them at Study Hall at the library most nights all semester.

    Pep hasn't noticed any big centers but Pep was pleased with how the Saxons competed last year with no height whatsoever. Certainly was a shocker watching the webcast at the library as AU, after losing by 30+ at McLane Center, turned the tide on Fisher and won in Pittsford.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 17, 2009, 11:49:13 AM
    Fisher's schedule is posted on their webpage. A few interesting out of conference games (Carnegie Mellon, Desales, and SLU) Should be a fun year. I am starting to get excited.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 19, 2009, 10:42:14 AM
    SJF CARDS, I am getting ready myself.... not much time left in E-8 for Tigers and again, I am somewhat disappointed... I have used Stevens Tech to get to see the teams, since I am in the City..It was perfect..... Sometime this week I will post my pre-season predictions..........I know you guys can hardly wait, but it stirs the juices and  creates good clean banter and some fun... This site has been great for that, and I believe some real good input..... excluding myself, of course...I think the league overall, talent wise, is down a bit but there are some real interesting match-ups and players in this league that should create some ups and downs, and give everyone a chance of beating anyone on any given night, as they say....but what do I know ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on October 21, 2009, 04:55:23 PM
    Long time reader of the site new time poster -

    Here are some of the few questions heading into the season (predictions and quick write up to follow soon)

    IC - how will they replace 5 of top 8 from the best season in school history?  All league burton and bostic's shoes won't be easy to fill.  How far can cruz/marcus carry the team? How will the new recruits handle playing big minutes?

    Fisher - can they reclaim the dominance they had in years past? With core returning they should be the favorite in the league. 

    RIT - how will they replace the nation's leading rebounder and one of the best post players in the E8 over the past decade?  Can they make a repeat trip to NCAA's?

    NAZ - how will Corey McAdam play without big brother? How will he respond to triple teams all year long as only legitimate scoring option? What will new coach's system be?

    Utica - how will team respond without doug herring, all conference player the past three years? Disappointing not to make E8 tournament but could make run at top this year?

    Hartwick - new coach should change the losing mentailty but without coco will it matter?  Addition by subtraction without ball-dominant coco? Can they compete for final spot?

    Stevens - how much will loss of all conference virgil gray effect team? Can they regroup after missing conference tournament?

    Alfred - last year took great strides rebuilding program despite tiny frontline - can wellman continue in second year with his recruits? Can they compete for 4th spot?

    Elmira - can they avoid 20 losses? Knock any of the top 4 off? Will they ever contend?

    Predictions and projected wins to follow.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on October 22, 2009, 09:48:02 AM
    As usual, I Look for Ithaca and Fischer to battle for the top spot.  Culpo did turn around the losing mentality at Hartwick, will it continue with the new coach...time will tell.  Cocco was a great talent, but could shoot you out of a game as fast and as often as he could shoot you into one.   Look for Elmira to continue to make slow but steady progress under their new coach.   RIT will not be able to overcome the loss of Carson this year.  But if the young players reach their potential, they may contend next season. 
    Just my opinion, what do others think?


    Quote from: bomber3 on October 21, 2009, 04:55:23 PM
    Long time reader of the site new time poster -

    Here are some of the few questions heading into the season (predictions and quick write up to follow soon)

    IC - how will they replace 5 of top 8 from the best season in school history?  All league burton and bostic's shoes won't be easy to fill.  How far can cruz/marcus carry the team? How will the new recruits handle playing big minutes?

    Fisher - can they reclaim the dominance they had in years past? With core returning they should be the favorite in the league. 

    RIT - how will they replace the nation's leading rebounder and one of the best post players in the E8 over the past decade?  Can they make a repeat trip to NCAA's?

    NAZ - how will Corey McAdam play without big brother? How will he respond to triple teams all year long as only legitimate scoring option? What will new coach's system be?

    Utica - how will team respond without doug herring, all conference player the past three years? Disappointing not to make E8 tournament but could make run at top this year?

    Hartwick - new coach should change the losing mentailty but without coco will it matter?  Addition by subtraction without ball-dominant coco? Can they compete for final spot?

    Stevens - how much will loss of all conference virgil gray effect team? Can they regroup after missing conference tournament?

    Alfred - last year took great strides rebuilding program despite tiny frontline - can wellman continue in second year with his recruits? Can they compete for 4th spot?

    Elmira - can they avoid 20 losses? Knock any of the top 4 off? Will they ever contend?

    Predictions and projected wins to follow.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 22, 2009, 11:00:16 AM
    Let me reply to Bomber 3.. and welcome to site....Keep in minde this response does not take any recruits into account since I am not well versed on who each school is getting.

    IC... Lost not only too much talent but too many players. Cruz and Marcus have talent but need support.

    Fisher.. Korniker will have them ready, and everyone back.. Franklin, Gettings, Cornett, Newman.. all experienced... Tough to knock.

    RIT... I am prejudiced, so take that into consideration... Cannot replace Carson, however Kornichak, Lowe, Sweet, have been through the wars...actually Carson only one gone.... I don't think OUR offense will suffer too much, but our rebounding and defense will......... HOPEFULLY enough to make playoffs.

    NAZ.... Corey Mc Adam may be exposed this year. New Coach, MAY teach defense.. If Mc Adam plays defense he may actually get into foul trouble, which will hurt Naz big time..... I don't see any supporting cast, and if Mc Adam try's to do it all on offense, look for whoever he is guarding to light it up....  Thye could be under .500 this year.

    Utica... They not only lose Herring, they lose Maxwell, Smith and McClendon.. They return Patterson Trahams Whyte and Preston... I look for these guys to be about.500 on the league.

    Hartwick... They did learn how to win, but now a new coach, new system, maybe a coulpe of years away... They lose COCO and Bealieu, but I agree, Coco took away from team concept. The return Blazek, good freshman, and should build around him. decent role players.. Kyle, Phillips and Doyley.... another.500 team

    Stevens.... My adopted team since I see them the most and some alumni are friends of mine...This team will be very interesting this year. They lose Virgil Grey, who was a good talent, but unfortunate for him, he didn't have that point guard who could create for him... The loss of Greco last year was devistating for Grey. The loss of Passalaqua is not really a big deal either in that while he could shoot, he necver went to the basket, and like Mc Adams he avoided defense because he wanted to stay in game..  I am told the person he guarded had career games quite often. His steals came away from the ball.  Baker leaving means nothing, just less turn-overs. So overall this is addition through subtraction. The rumor about Greco being back turns out true. He will be playing again, and that may save the Ducks. The 3 point shooting they lose from Passalaqua will be picked up by Greco, Cutri, and some benck players... Higgans and Smith will be tough off boards, as long as they stay out of fould trouble..... If this team looks to run they could be a tough out. They will have some court IQ and toughness back with Greco, and could surprise a bit.  I look for 9-7......

    Alfred... Greatt coaching job last year from Wellman, they will certainly inprove... need some height but could win 6- 7 games.

    Elmira.. Tough to chart..,  everyone back except O'Brien. I think Torgalksi has the ability to coach, needs to recruit... This would be his first recruiting class....wait and see here.





    Fisher
    RIT
    Stevens
    IC
    Naz
    Alfred
    Hartwick
    Utica
    Elmira


    Apologies for mispelling, forgetting someone, or even putting someone on wrong team, because remember What do I know ;) 
         
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on October 22, 2009, 11:20:20 AM
    After looking at the pre-season Top 25 noticed that both Ithaca and Fisher are among the "others receiving votes." Ithaca will quickly drop out of that category (to not mentioned at all) and I bet Fisher will get some top 25 love this year. That team has too much experience and is too well-coached to bomb.

    IC - Same as everyone has said...Lost too much...Marcus and Cruz were really the only underclassmen to ever see PT so let's see if the others can step right in.

    Fisher - I think will win conference.

    RIT - Carson was a beast for last 3 yrs (didn't do much of anything his FR year) and team is VERY well-coached. Kornichak can take care of the ball and Scott Young and others are solid.

    Naz - Don't know much about Coach Broderick and his Oswego past but I'm sure his defense has to be better than Daley's. McAdam will have to take it easy on d as he can never get into foul trouble. However, a lot of youngsters played for them last yr so we'll see if they matured. With all the unknowns about Coach Broderick they might be my dark horse to make conf. tourney.

    Utica - Herring made them go and the others (Maxwell, Smith and McClendon) weren't bad at all. Return some solid players and could make it into top 4 and conf. tourney.

    Hartwick - I don't know anything about them besides no Coco, lost Coach...

    Stevens - Wonder how Greco will do after year off. Higgins is solid and will need to step up on offense for them. They could break into top 4 and conf. tourney.

    Alfred - That team scared some opponents last yr and will continue to improve and win some games ppl didn't expect them to.

    Elmira - Will it be a typical Elmira year? This is another team that can win some games ppl never expected them to.

    I think it will go like this...

    Fisher (if they don't host they should be disappointed)
    RIT (great coaching, solid players)
    Stevens (just a hunch)
    Naz (like I said, dark horse to make conf tourney)
    IC (just too immature to win close games as they lost alll their #1, 2, 3, and 4th option from last yr...)
    Utica
    Alfred (will win games that will screw up conf tourney hopes for teams like IC, Utica...)
    Elmira (same as AU)
    Hartwick


    I am looking forward to the e-8 SID's updating the rosters and such so we can really see what freshmen/transfers have come in...maybe that will mix things up
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on October 22, 2009, 04:01:17 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on October 22, 2009, 11:00:16 AM
    Let me reply to Bomber 3.. and welcome to site....Keep in minde this response does not take any recruits into account since I am not well versed on who each school is getting.

    IC... Lost not only too much talent but too many players. Cruz and Marcus have talent but need support.

    Fisher.. Korniker will have them ready, and everyone back.. Franklin, Gettings, Cornett, Newman.. all experienced... Tough to knock.

    RIT... I am prejudiced, so take that into consideration... Cannot replace Carson, however Kornichak, Lowe, Sweet, have been through the wars...actually Carson only one gone.... I don't think OUR offense will suffer too much, but our rebounding and defense will......... HOPEFULLY enough to make playoffs.

    NAZ.... Corey Mc Adam may be exposed this year. New Coach, MAY teach defense.. If Mc Adam plays defense he may actually get into foul trouble, which will hurt Naz big time..... I don't see any supporting cast, and if Mc Adam try's to do it all on offense, look for whoever he is guarding to light it up....  Thye could be under .500 this year.

    Utica... They not only lose Herring, they lose Maxwell, Smith and McClendon.. They return Patterson Trahams Whyte and Preston... I look for these guys to be about.500 on the league.

    Hartwick... They did learn how to win, but now a new coach, new system, maybe a coulpe of years away... They lose COCO and Bealieu, but I agree, Coco took away from team concept. The return Blazek, good freshman, and should build around him. decent role players.. Kyle, Phillips and Doyley.... another.500 team

    Stevens.... My adopted team since I see them the most and some alumni are friends of mine...This team will be very interesting this year. They lose Virgil Grey, who was a good talent, but unfortunate for him, he didn't have that point guard who could create for him... The loss of Greco last year was devistating for Grey. The loss of Passalaqua is not really a big deal either in that while he could shoot, he necver went to the basket, and like Mc Adams he avoided defense because he wanted to stay in game..  I am told the person he guarded had career games quite often. His steals came away from the ball.  Baker leaving means nothing, just less turn-overs. So overall this is addition through subtraction. The rumor about Greco being back turns out true. He will be playing again, and that may save the Ducks. The 3 point shooting they lose from Passalaqua will be picked up by Greco, Cutri, and some benck players... Higgans and Smith will be tough off boards, as long as they stay out of fould trouble..... If this team looks to run they could be a tough out. They will have some court IQ and toughness back with Greco, and could surprise a bit.  I look for 9-7......

    Alfred... Greatt coaching job last year from Wellman, they will certainly inprove... need some height but could win 6- 7 games.

    Elmira.. Tough to chart..,  everyone back except O'Brien. I think Torgalksi has the ability to coach, needs to recruit... This would be his first recruiting class....wait and see here.





    Fisher
    RIT
    Stevens
    IC
    Naz
    Alfred
    Hartwick
    Utica
    Elmira


    Apologies for mispelling, forgetting someone, or even putting someone on wrong team, because remember What do I know ;) 
         

    I didn't realize Utica lost Maxwell and McClendon on top of Herring.  Maxwell was underrated for them and was a tough matchup due to his quickness.

    Also I didn't realize Baker was gone for stevens.  He killed ithaca @ stevens so it surprises me to hear you say he won't be missed.  Maybe I didn't see enough of him.

    If the Naz coaches ANY defense it will be more than McAdam has seen his first three years combined but I'm not buying the foul trouble prediction.  He's too smart to get in foul trouble and will simply let players by him to stay on the court. 

    Maybe you have more info on stevens than the rest of us but losing their top two players from a mediocre (at best) team last year makes me think they're in for a longgg year in hoboken!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 23, 2009, 07:53:32 AM
    Bomber 3, I agree McAdam won't get into foul trouble, because he wants to stay on the court, and is needed on the court, I guess my point was, here's a new coach who obviously knows NAZ has been known not to play defense...so he probably instills it in the team, and his leader has to buy in.... could be a problem if he actaully does play defense... but I agree with you he won't.....

    As far as Stevens goes... First Baker.... good athlete, strong on the boards...NOT A POINT GUARD.....too mechanical with the ball and turn-overs ALWAYS at costly times...Look at their last game in ECAC game against Rutgers-Newark......Stevens up 10 with 3:45 to play. Baker 8 or 9 turnovers in game,  OUCH, If Stevens had a point guard, they win that game...Also, I believe I have this right, he shot 60.0% from the free throw line... He has the ball in his hands at the end of a game, SUPPOSED TO, has to make big free throws...he didn't.  This cost Stevens many times last year..... I was told he had the most blocked shots on the team, or close to it. Is a point guard supposed to do that...He could get up, but should have been on front line.... again good athlete, and should have been underneath not outside....    The loss of Grey is huge, but my point was he never reached his potential last year... A lot had to do with the ball distribution, and Grey needed the ball in the open court.. in half court game he was getting ball on perimeter and he was not a shooter... On the break we go back to a mechanical point guard... need someone who could pass on the run... Unfortunate for Grey he was better than he showed. So when I say not losing much, I mean based on what he did last year. As far as Passalaqua, stand around "Horse" shooter.  Yes he could shoot but he didn't help in other areas, and I think Stevens can make up for that. They have a few shooters and much better to spread shooting around. Makes defense have to worry about multiple threats..........Hey now the replacements have to step up..... if they don't then all I said means nothing.......... In order for them to NOT be in for a long year, this bunch HAS TO RUN......use their strengths...... Higgans and Smith quick for big men, Greco has eyes in the back of his head and not afraid to make a tough pass, and can knock down 3's, and sophomore Cutri looks like he could easily fill Passalaqua's shoes....But what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on October 24, 2009, 09:22:23 AM
    I think we all know that McAdam has too high of a basketball IQ to get into foul trouble. He is a smart player, and a good defender, but I'm sure he knows how to play good d without getting in foul trouble.

    As for Stevens, replacing the top 3 scorers will be hard. Higgins will have to step up. What will be Sanchez's role now that Greco is back?? Do they play the 1-2 spots or split pg duties??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 25, 2009, 12:03:13 PM
    I saw some of the basketball players yesterday at the Fisher football game as they were working as ushers. I don't know how they are as basketball players but they pass the eyeball test. They look long and athletic. Take it for what it's worth, but they looked good.

    I am really excited to see what Kornaker comes out with this year. Like most of you I think they can win the league. Maybe this is the year they can get back to some of the dominance they have shown in the E8 in the past.

    Recruits are always important to a team trying to rebuild, like most of the league this year, so you never really know what a team has until they step on the floor, but I think it looks like this:

    Fisher - a lot of talent back, and, in my opinion, the best coach/recruiter in the conference.
    RIT - always a consistently competitive team. 
    Stevens - I don't know much about them but they seem to have talent year in and year out.
    Ithaca - I think they still have enough to make the tourny, but not much more.
    Utica - Toss up between UC, NAZ, and Hartwick
    Naz - If they don't play D, it could be a long season.
    Hartwick - ???
    Alfred - steady improvement from years past.
    Elmira - the KC Royals of the Empire 8.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on October 25, 2009, 04:36:53 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 25, 2009, 12:03:13 PM
    I saw some of the basketball players yesterday at the Fisher football game as they were working as ushers. I don't know how they are as basketball players but they pass the eyeball test. They look long and athletic. Take it for what it's worth, but they looked good.

    I am really excited to see what Kornaker comes out with this year. Like most of you I think they can win the league. Maybe this is the year they can get back to some of the dominance they have shown in the E8 in the past.

    Recruits are always important to a team trying to rebuild, like most of the league this year, so you never really know what a team has until they step on the floor, but I think it looks like this:

    Fisher - a lot of talent back, and, in my opinion, the best coach/recruiter in the conference.
    RIT - always a consistently competitive team. 
    Stevens - I don't know much about them but they seem to have talent year in and year out.
    Ithaca - I think they still have enough to make the tourny, but not much more.
    Utica - Toss up between UC, NAZ, and Hartwick
    Naz - If they don't play D, it could be a long season.
    Hartwick - ???
    Alfred - steady improvement from years past.
    Elmira - the KC Royals of the Empire 8.



    as much as it PAINS PAINS PAINS me to say it but i think fisher could be back up near the top of the region

    top region teams last year:

    ithaca - loses all american burton, all conference bostic + 3 others
    rochester - loses all american Mike Chmielowiec (spelling) and their leader, max kaplan
    st lawrence - loses all conference tom wopperer, richard williams, bela vonnek + others
    suny it - up and coming team could be near top
    rpi - loses sam simmons
    hamilton - not sure?


    east region is pretty open but rochester always reloads with their cross country recruiting
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 26, 2009, 09:01:20 AM
    E8BBALLER...  As far as Sanchez with Stevens... he's not on Roster..  probably wouldn't have gotten much time anyway, Greco should get about 30 min. a game.. I think they will go with Cutri at the 2....  BUT if they don't run... they will be in trouble... they do not have the players  for a 1/2 court game.... for 40 minutes. That might be RIT's situation as well. With the loss of Carson, there is no consistant inside presence....however we (RIT) have experience and personnel to run....
    I'll tell you, this year is going to be TRULY one of those "on any given night"  years... BUT what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 26, 2009, 08:16:27 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on October 25, 2009, 04:36:53 PM
    as much as it PAINS PAINS PAINS me to say it but i think fisher could be back up near the top of the region

    I think if Fisher can have a good recruiting class this year, they can get back towards the top of the region. They were 16-2 at one point last year before the wheels came off at the end of the season. Hopefully (for me anyway) they have a few guys coming in and they can fill in the holes and really get going this year.

    I noticed Tyler Wescott is not on the returning players section of the Fisher homepage. Does anyone know if he is back this year? I think he was a big loss last year when he went down.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on October 27, 2009, 10:11:59 AM
    Top 25 Preseason Rankings were released with the following east region teams receiving votes:

    32nd - St. Lawrence (43 points)
    38th - Ithaca (19 points)
    45th - St. John Fisher (12 points)

    These rankings mean nothing and are completely worthless in my opinion.  It took Ithaca like 5 or 6 rankings last year and an 8-0 record (approx.) before they were ranked.  They shouldn't even rank them until week 3 or 4 and just group them as 50 teams to watch or something.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on October 27, 2009, 01:56:10 PM
    RIT has posted the roster for the 2009 - 2010 season. Looks like 4 incoming Freshman and only 2 seniors, Young and Sweet (team captains).

    Two of the freshman are 6'6 bigs and there is also a 6'4 F and a guard in the class. Haven't heard much on any of them but it looks like McVean will have a bunch of big guys to choose from to try and replace the production Carson gave him the last few years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 27, 2009, 02:12:19 PM
    Tigerfan, of course we can't replace Carson, BUT (now here's the glass half full), we have experience everywhere else, and if these bigs can be a presence underneath, even just to foul so no one walks in, we can be dangerous. Who knows, maybe another Carson in the making. Like you I know nothing about the freshman...good to know we a few choices.....We should be in the thick of it, BUT what do I know ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 27, 2009, 07:29:29 PM
    What is it about RIT that makes them sort of Big Man U in the E8. It seems to me that RIT usually has one of the top, if not the Top big man in the conference. Maybe it just seems that way, because I felt like Carson was on the team for 12 years. That guy was a beast.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bigbetty55 on October 27, 2009, 07:43:45 PM
    Looking forward to watch the Ithaca Bombers this season!! They lost a lot of players to graduation but we know they got some good recruits!!  Go BOMBERS!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on October 27, 2009, 08:21:21 PM
    Quote from: bigbetty55 on October 27, 2009, 07:43:45 PM
    Looking forward to watch the Ithaca Bombers this season!! They lost a lot of players to graduation but we know they got some good recruits!!  Go BOMBERS!!!!

    We know they got some good recruits?? No we dont...please tell the rest of us.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on October 28, 2009, 09:11:38 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on October 27, 2009, 08:21:21 PM
    Quote from: bigbetty55 on October 27, 2009, 07:43:45 PM
    Looking forward to watch the Ithaca Bombers this season!! They lost a lot of players to graduation but we know they got some good recruits!!  Go BOMBERS!!!!

    We know they got some good recruits?? No we dont...please tell the rest of us.

    Roster is up on the ithaca website, take a look.  8 freshman listed. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on October 28, 2009, 10:16:38 AM
    Overall looks to be a rebuilding year for the E8 and pretty much the rest of the region.  Fisher has some experience so should be one of the leaders.  I think Rochester will be up there as well even with the loss of chimelowiz as they had a couple stud freshmen and I am sure they recruited some more to reload.  I thought RIT moved to the LL? I am sure Hamilton will be solid on the LL as usual not sure which suny team will be the front runner this year maybe bport? Taking into consideration the weaker/younger E8 and a possible down year for the region, should be a very good year for Fisher as long as they can play consistent.  They have strong guards but can be inconsistent and their bigs are lacking so if the freshmen big can make an impact and can play 25-30 min agame and pull in some boards and play good D they should have a shot to do decent in the tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on October 28, 2009, 11:12:32 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on October 28, 2009, 10:16:38 AM
    Overall looks to be a rebuilding year for the E8 and pretty much the rest of the region.  Fisher has some experience so should be one of the leaders.  I think Rochester will be up there as well even with the loss of chimelowiz as they had a couple stud freshmen and I am sure they recruited some more to reload.  I thought RIT moved to the LL? I am sure Hamilton will be solid on the LL as usual not sure which suny team will be the front runner this year maybe bport? Taking into consideration the weaker/younger E8 and a possible down year for the region, should be a very good year for Fisher as long as they can play consistent.  They have strong guards but can be inconsistent and their bigs are lacking so if the freshmen big can make an impact and can play 25-30 min agame and pull in some boards and play good D they should have a shot to do decent in the tourny.

    Pep believes the move takes place in 2010-11.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on October 29, 2009, 08:29:19 AM
    Ty Westcott tour up his knee again. same knee as last year. Thats why he's not listed on the roster
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 29, 2009, 06:28:45 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on October 28, 2009, 11:12:32 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on October 28, 2009, 10:16:38 AM
    Overall looks to be a rebuilding year for the E8 and pretty much the rest of the region.  Fisher has some experience so should be one of the leaders.  I think Rochester will be up there as well even with the loss of chimelowiz as they had a couple stud freshmen and I am sure they recruited some more to reload.  I thought RIT moved to the LL? I am sure Hamilton will be solid on the LL as usual not sure which suny team will be the front runner this year maybe bport? Taking into consideration the weaker/younger E8 and a possible down year for the region, should be a very good year for Fisher as long as they can play consistent.  They have strong guards but can be inconsistent and their bigs are lacking so if the freshmen big can make an impact and can play 25-30 min agame and pull in some boards and play good D they should have a shot to do decent in the tourny.

    Pep believes the move takes place in 2010-11.


    I think you are right Pep. It is my understanding that starting next year RIT will be in the LL for all sports. They are playing in the E8 for all fall sports this year. Can RIT go out on top?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on October 30, 2009, 06:00:54 PM
    Quote from: GPT on October 29, 2009, 08:29:19 AM
    Ty Westcott tour up his knee again. same knee as last year. Thats why he's not listed on the roster

    Poor kid. That's a shame that he tore his knee up again. Wish him a speedy recovery...I wonder if he'll ever play again. It's tough coming back from any injury, but one as serious as a torn ACL and not once, but twice, is mentally/emotionally crushing as well as physically.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 01, 2009, 10:33:19 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on October 30, 2009, 06:00:54 PM
    Quote from: GPT on October 29, 2009, 08:29:19 AM
    Ty Westcott tour up his knee again. same knee as last year. Thats why he's not listed on the roster

    Poor kid. That's a shame that he tore his knee up again. Wish him a speedy recovery...I wonder if he'll ever play again. It's tough coming back from any injury, but one as serious as a torn ACL and not once, but twice, is mentally/emotionally crushing as well as physically.

    I feel for the kid. It can be very hard to have the strength and determination to come back from and injury like that once, but twice is even that much more difficult. What is really too bad for him is that he probably spent most of last year lifting weights and rehabing just so he could get back on the court, and then before the season really gets underway, boom, he is back in the same position. It is just too bad.

    For Fisher I wonder how much they had gameplanned to have him in the mix. I am sure they know how to win without him, since they did some of that last year, but it is just too bad to hear that the coaching staff has to prepare a new plan without him.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 02, 2009, 09:46:55 AM
    I am sorry to hear that as well....Hate to send of these guys get hurt...they have spent many hours on the court since they were 5 or 6 years old, then when they get to their last step, an injury like this is devestating...I hope we all have it wrong, and he just has a sprain of some sort ( wishful thinking maybe) but you never know. As far as Fisher goes, I'm sure they will adjust quickly.  yes LL next year for RIT, don't remind me, I am not happy about the move...... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2009, 11:02:45 AM
    almost time to make the transition from fb to bb.
    looking forward to hearing about the fisher team this year--hoping for a better season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 02, 2009, 11:40:46 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2009, 11:02:45 AM
    almost time to make the transition from fb to bb.
    looking forward to hearing about the fisher team this year--hoping for a better season.


    What's the hurry?  ;)

    Seriously, though, Pep is excited about basketball season as Coach Dale Wellman's got his first recruiting class on the roster, bringing in kids from Texas, Virginia, Maryland, Ohio, Pennsylvania....in addition to Webster, Fairport, etc. Likewise, he's got some vets back who know his scheme and perhaps can take it to another level in 2009-2010.

    Now if Pep can get the band on board for home games....On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2009, 12:00:33 PM
    killing me pep..
    you must have a strong recruiter to get those guys up to mayberry!! :P
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 02, 2009, 09:54:39 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 02, 2009, 09:46:55 AM
    yes LL next year for RIT, don't remind me, I am not happy about the move...... ;)

    Does anyone know the rationale for RIT leaving the E8 and going to the LL? Academically is makes some sense I guess, but I don't know what they gain?

    Pep, I am interested in AU this year as well. They looked much improved last year, and I can remember some good AU teams a few years back. Not sure what their names were, but when I was a Freshman at Fisher they had a rediculously good point guard and a legit 6-10/6-11 center that was super athletic for DIII basketball.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 03, 2009, 08:26:13 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2009, 12:00:33 PM
    killing me pep..
    you must have a strong recruiter to get those guys up to mayberry!! :P

    Getting them to visit is the key. Once Wellman gets them on campus, his first stop is the library where he can introduce them to Pep. Once they've met Pep, they're sold on Alfred.  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 03, 2009, 08:32:48 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 02, 2009, 09:54:39 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 02, 2009, 09:46:55 AM
    yes LL next year for RIT, don't remind me, I am not happy about the move...... ;)

    Does anyone know the rationale for RIT leaving the E8 and going to the LL? Academically is makes some sense I guess, but I don't know what they gain?

    Pep, I am interested in AU this year as well. They looked much improved last year, and I can remember some good AU teams a few years back. Not sure what their names were, but when I was a Freshman at Fisher they had a rediculously good point guard and a legit 6-10/6-11 center that was super athletic for DIII basketball.

    RIT's forte is its hockey. LL has hockey. members have hockey programs in the ECAC. Any hockey in the E8? At least that's Pep's take.

    Not sure of the point guard...could have been a guy named "Q" who actually transferred over from Alfred State. The tall dude, if Pep is correct, was likely a 6-9 Kareem McKinnon, who wasn't that great out of high school (from the city) but whose "Senior Day" game included at least five slams. He vastly improved during his time at AU and was just a great kid who did well in his business and marketing studies. Pep wonders what he's doing now....just a super individual. In fact, Pep thinks he went on the annual Florida Spring Break Habitat Trip the year before Pep started going....probably in 2002.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: tigerfan2 on November 03, 2009, 09:07:46 AM
    When McKinnon was playing I thought the PG's at Alfred were Will Smith (hurt his Sr year) and Devin Downey.

    Those teams at AU were loaded and its disappointing that Murphy could never get the best out of them. I know injuries played a part but they had more talent than anyone in the E8 for a couple years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2009, 11:15:56 AM
    ya had me at hello pep,

    ya had me at hello
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: owen on November 03, 2009, 12:56:18 PM
    Sounds right Pep, re RIT's reasons for the move... the hockey angle makes sense. LL has a number of decent D1 hockey schools like Clarkson, RPI, Union, and St. Lawrence. Although I don't think there is such a thing as 'Liberty League hockey.' They're in the ECAC, not the Liberty League, right? RIT sports program is similar to those four other colleges - D1 hockey and D3 pretty much everything else.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: owen on November 03, 2009, 01:03:12 PM
    And by "They're in the ECAC" I meant those four other Liberty League schools - not RIT which is in Atlantic Hockey. Sorry! Wonder if RIT hockey will wind up in the ECAC when it joins the LL? That's not a topic for this board though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 03, 2009, 05:14:30 PM
    I think it has to be the hockey angle for RIT, but considering that the ECAC Hockey league is a DI league it doesn't make much sense to me. I know that RIT is D1 in hockey, but they are already in a conference, and the ECAC hockey league is loaded with good teams. I doubt they are interested in adding a sub par DI program. (No offense RIT fans, but compared to Cornell, Yale, Clarkson, SLU etc. RIT is just not there yet).

    Maybe RIT is trying to make a run...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 03, 2009, 07:47:38 PM
    Do any of the E8 teams have a scrimmage coming up in the next week or two? I am assuming that all of the teams start roughly around the same date as Fisher (11/15). Fisher normally does play a Canadian team or some other small school, but I have not heard anything about a scrimmage this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 04, 2009, 09:27:25 AM
    sjfcards, RIT ...They scrimmaged on Holloween and beat Western Ontario on a last second shot. Turn overs were an issue.. Scoring spread out a bit... My contacts say Stevens scrimmaging Saturday against ( don't hold me to this) Montclare State.... also Mt. St. Vincent, but don't know when....

    RIT opens in Plattsburg Tourney against Husson. ME... 11/21
    Stevens has tough start... At NYU ...11/15 then host their own tourney 11/20 ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 04, 2009, 12:14:52 PM
    Looking at Fishers OOC sched--they are going to have their hands full with C. Mellon and DeSales!
    Im glad they have quality teams on the sched.
    We will know pretty quickly how Fisher stacks up!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 05, 2009, 09:51:38 PM
    I have been doing a little research on the incoming players for Fisher, and it looks like there is some talent coming in. Hopefully the big from Frontier will work out, as he looks like a real athlete. If Fisher has some talent coming in, it could really help them get back to the top of the E8. I know that kind of goes without saying, but I think the one thing Fisher was lacking last year was depth (especially after some injuries and people leaving the team). I am not saying they would have beat IC and won the league with a few more players, but I am sure they would have made the E8 tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 06, 2009, 09:44:40 AM
    thanks cards--keep me in the loop as the season commences!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: the golden flyer on November 07, 2009, 12:45:39 PM
     I love that things are starting to heat up now that games are about a week away...

    Senior PG for Naz - Corey McAdam has been selected by D3hoops.com as a preseason All-American. See article below..

    http://nazathletics.com/news/2009/11/7/MBB_1107090043.aspx
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 07, 2009, 01:35:17 PM
    I think it will be interesting to see what McAdam shows this year with the loss of some key pieces to the puzzle from the last few years. Any body from Naz Nation know what we are looking at from him this year?

    I am getting excited as well. I am going to be down in Pittsburgh next week for the Notre Dame/Pitt football game. I am still trying to convince the other travlers to stick around to see Fisher's first game. I am chomping at the bit to see what this Fisher team has. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on November 07, 2009, 04:13:12 PM
    As for Fisher's big guy from Frontier - he is real good. He will make an immediate impact.

    Meanwhile, down East Ave, I think we all know that Corey McAdam will continue to put up big numbers and maybe get a triple double or 2. But who will he be getting those assists to? Some younger guys need to step up and produce. Naz beat Western Ontario a week or so ago in an exhibition, the box score is linked below..

    http://nazathletics.com/custompages/mbball/2009-10/exhibitn.htm
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 07, 2009, 06:22:53 PM
    I'm suprised Fisher did not schedule a scrimmage this year. Typically they do play one, but I guess not this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on November 08, 2009, 02:11:46 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 07, 2009, 06:22:53 PM
    I'm suprised Fisher did not schedule a scrimmage this year. Typically they do play one, but I guess not this year.

    I know they had at least one vs. Medaille from Buffalo. Although I do not know how it went. Anyone??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 08, 2009, 06:35:55 PM
    I was looking for some info on the Carnegie Mellon team, but I can not seem to find the UAA board. Am I just missing it? If not, does anyone have any info on them? You can only take so much from their season preview.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 08, 2009, 08:27:57 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 08, 2009, 06:35:55 PM
    I was looking for some info on the Carnegie Mellon team, but I can not seem to find the UAA board. Am I just missing it? If not, does anyone have any info on them? You can only take so much from their season preview.

    The UAA board can be found under Men's Basketball on the Muti-Regional Topics page, usually among the 1st 6 boards listed. Not much chatter there regarding CMU.

    Here is a link to Carnegie-Mellon's 2009-10 Roster:  http://www.cmu.edu/athletics/sports/mbasketball/rosters/index.html


    Here is an article from their website that has the UAA preseason coach's poll in which the Tartans were picked to come in 7th out of the 8 teams. Interesting, D3 Hoops Top 25 Preseason poll has them listed under others recieving votes with 22 points but that could be 1 voter placing them 4th or 2 homers putting them in the 15th spot.
    http://www.cmu.edu/athletics/sports/mbasketball/news/2010/uaapreseason.html

    Hope that helps.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: washedup42 on November 08, 2009, 09:15:13 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on November 08, 2009, 02:11:46 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 07, 2009, 06:22:53 PM
    I'm suprised Fisher did not schedule a scrimmage this year. Typically they do play one, but I guess not this year.

    I know they had at least one vs. Medaille from Buffalo. Although I do not know how it went. Anyone??

    I was at the Medaille vs Fisher scrimmage... being a former Medaille player Ill keep my biased opinions out and give a few insights on what I saw in terms of Fisher. For some reason Ozell was not in the starting lineup, possible disciplinary actions??? I only get that impression because there were times where he was pulled for shot selection and got into it with the coach a lil on the sidelines. As far as his play, when he was on he was on, great athlete basically what you would expect from him. Another player I was impressed with I believe was Jordan Koch. Long athletic could shoot the ball and great finisher in transition, even threw one down pretty hard. Maybe had some issues with shot selection too, would have loved to see him and Ozell on the floor at the same time more. I was most impressed by him defensively as he guarded four out of 5 positions at points during the half. The big kid from frontier is a horse. Moves pretty well for a big guy his size lots of potential. Newman played hard defensively... the other bigs showed decent mid range shooting. The classic fisher high low looks. I do not know who he was but there was a backup point guard who really struggled against pressure and dribbled the letters off the ball. Thats about all I have as far as things that stood out individually. As a team often times they looked stagnant on offense, I think that may have been due to some line up issues and feeling each other out. Defensively it was on and off at times, looked a little weak in tranition D however bigs altered some shots on that end and were very active on the glass. Medaille dominated the first half Fisher won the second overall probably played even when it came to the guys who will actually play. Medaille's younger guys dominated the third period but no one that played in that half will probably make an impact this season for either side. Probably alot more could have been picked up but I was more focused on the Mavs haha. Hope that helps out sorry for this being a novel!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 08, 2009, 10:27:08 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 08, 2009, 08:27:57 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 08, 2009, 06:35:55 PM
    I was looking for some info on the Carnegie Mellon team, but I can not seem to find the UAA board. Am I just missing it? If not, does anyone have any info on them? You can only take so much from their season preview.

    The UAA board can be found under Men's Basketball on the Muti-Regional Topics page, usually among the 1st 6 boards listed. Not much chatter there regarding CMU.

    Here is a link to Carnegie-Mellon's 2009-10 Roster:  http://www.cmu.edu/athletics/sports/mbasketball/rosters/index.html


    Here is an article from their website that has the UAA preseason coach's poll in which the Tartans were picked to come in 7th out of the 8 teams. Interesting, D3 Hoops Top 25 Preseason poll has them listed under others recieving votes with 22 points but that could be 1 voter placing them 4th or 2 homers putting them in the 15th spot.
    http://www.cmu.edu/athletics/sports/mbasketball/news/2010/uaapreseason.html

    Hope that helps.

    Thanks for the help. I saw a lot of that stuff, but I was hoping somone close to the team would have some insight. What they lost from last year (apparently they were pretty good last year), whos coming back, what are the expectations, etc. Thanks for the research. I can't get enough of this stuff.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 10, 2009, 10:08:48 AM
    I should probably post this on the suny board for the oneonta fans but apparently the hartwick team has been spending a lot of time blogging away.  There is some good material on their for opposing fans and that "halloween" picture would look good blown up on a 3 foot by 5 foot poster board

    http://hartwickmensbasketball.blogspot.com/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 10, 2009, 08:17:52 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 10, 2009, 10:08:48 AM
    I should probably post this on the suny board for the oneonta fans but apparently the hartwick team has been spending a lot of time blogging away.  There is some good material on their for opposing fans and that "halloween" picture would look good blown up on a 3 foot by 5 foot poster board

    http://hartwickmensbasketball.blogspot.com/

    Hilarious stuff. Sometimes when you have an idea, you should just let it go.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 11, 2009, 11:07:58 AM
    With the season beginning this weekend (Monday for Ithaca), I thought I would throw my two cents in the ring.  Here's how I see the league unfolding this season:

    I think spots 2-5 and 6-9 are interchangeable.  I see a big drop after the 5th team and see it as a 5 team race for the tournament.

    1.  Fisher - return too much to overcome although I can still see them ending up with 3-4 losses in the league
    2.  Ithaca - going with a homer pick on this one.  Although they lost a lot I still think they have a solid group this year.  Depends a lot on the freshman and how well the team shoots but I can see them getting 15-17 wins. Should be pretty streaky and I can seem them anywhere from 2-5. 
    3.  RIT - tough to replace carson but with scott young, lowe, and others returning they should do well
    4. Nazareth - originally had them fifth but I can't see mcadam missing the conference tournament in his senior year.  Need to develop some bigs to replace deheimer and mcadam #2
    5. Utica - lost Herring but look for patterson and goodman to fill the void. Could be anywhere from 3-5 in the league.
    6. Alfred - won on the road @ fisher and nearly did the same at 20-1 (at the time)ithaca if not for a couple late 3's.  They return almost everyone and could knock off anyone in the league.
    7. Hartwick - lost coco and have a new coach so I'm not too sure about them. 
    8. Stevens - lost top 3 players from a .500 team.  I think they'll struggle unless they brought in some decent recruits.
    9. Elmira - returning everyone usually helps.....unless its from a 4-19 team.  They beat cortland last year and have the potential to win a few games in conference but not much else.

    That's how I see it we'll check back come march.  Isn't the E8 coaches preseason poll out by now??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 11, 2009, 11:36:02 AM
    Good stuff Bomber3. I disagree with a few choices but all in all I agree. I would swap Ithaca and RIT. I think RIT will have more talent than IC, but they are probably interchangable like you said. IC was way too good last year to not have something left in the tank. Yes, Burton and Bostic were huge for that team, but you don't win 20+ games without having some depth and some role players stepping up. They will be in the E8 tourny.

    I like the Alfred pick, but don't know if they have enough to top Stevens. Nice to have some talk on the board. Tip off is only a few days away.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 11, 2009, 12:30:09 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 11, 2009, 11:36:02 AM
    Good stuff Bomber3. I disagree with a few choices but all in all I agree. I would swap Ithaca and RIT. I think RIT will have more talent than IC, but they are probably interchangable like you said. IC was way too good last year to not have something left in the tank. Yes, Burton and Bostic were huge for that team, but you don't win 20+ games without having some depth and some role players stepping up. They will be in the E8 tourny.

    I like the Alfred pick, but don't know if they have enough to top Stevens. Nice to have some talk on the board. Tip off is only a few days away.

    See I have no clue who stevens has other than higgins and greco (who is on the roster after a year off).  I probably put them too low but too late now.  Realistically they're probably battling alfred for the 6 spot.  I had RIT/Ithaca 2a and 2b but for argument's sake went with Ithaca.  Not much chatter here otherwise.  All the other bomber posters must be too busy with cortaca planning. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 11, 2009, 03:17:04 PM
    Cortaca sure sucks up a lot of the attention this time of year.

    Looks like Coach Mullins brought in another talented freshman class at IC though.  He has really been on a recruiting hot streak.  Don't know much about any of the players but they look big and pretty accomplished.

    Any marquee freshmen in the league this year?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 11, 2009, 08:21:42 PM
    Is Cortland and Ithaca going to play in basketball again this year on the same day as Cortaca like last year? I didn't go to either school, but my wife went to IC and I live in Cortland, and I know that I am usually way out of it by the time a basketball game rolls around. I guess I understand the the decision to try and take advantage of some of the school spirit the Cortaca game brings out in folks, but I can't say I agree with the decision making.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 12, 2009, 08:30:13 AM
    tip off this wknd
    cards- give me the skinny after the game!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 12, 2009, 09:19:25 AM
    No, the basketball cortaca matchup will take place in december like in past years.  Last year the basketball game was ehh crowd-wise (game was it was awesome for ic, won by 30 going away for a double header beat down).  It was at 8 o'clock (over four hours after end of the football game) and by then all the IC fans were back in their neck of the woods except for the parents.  If they wanted it to be crowded or draw some of the football crowd they should have set the tip for 4.  Maybe it was intentional however to allow some time for the drunks to pass out? 

    And yes I was told IC has a pretty decent recruiting class.  Couple legit guards who will get pt but I don't think any new bigs will, but I could be mistaken.  They could be thin in the post with only brown and barera returning.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 12, 2009, 10:09:14 AM
    Below my team by team synopsis then my pre-season finish.  Posted earlier, sorry for the repetition. Bomber 3 we actually both pick 3 of the top 4.. Fisher, RIT and IC... You have NAZ and I have Stevens... There are really only two BIG different picks between us.  I have Stevens 3 you have them 8, I have Utica 8 and you have them 5.... 
    remember Utica loses Maxwell, Smith and Mclendon, tough to overcome and UC tends to underachieve. They will probably end up somewhere between 3-8

    I admittedly have a little prejudice when it comes to Stevens as I see them more than my ALMA MATER RIT. I really believe the loss of Passalaqua and Grey, is over-rated.. They scored, but this group as a whole has the ability to make up for those points, and they now have a point guard, Greco, which is  important.  I understand they beat Mt. St. Vincent in a scrimmage by 35 points. ( not sure how good or bad they are.. anyone from Skyline have a read on them).  Scoring was spread out and Greco was dishing it out..... Word is he can avg. 8-10 assists this year and score 12-15.  Appears Higgans, Smith, and Cutri can score inside and out, and there bigs are markedly improved. Again this is all hearsay at this point BUT I will be there Sunday as they open at NYU.tough beginning for them but I promise to be fair in my analysis. In any event the juices are starting to flow on the sight, lets see what the Fisher boys have to input...and of course PEP our idle..... I haven't seen cyclone lately..... he has always had some good insight as well.......

    BELOW IS MY PREVIOUS POST.......

    Let me reply to Bomber 3.. and welcome to site....Keep in minde this response does not take any recruits into account since I am not well versed on who each school is getting.

    IC... Lost not only too much talent but too many players. Cruz and Marcus have talent but need support.

    Fisher.. Korniker will have them ready, and everyone back.. Franklin, Gettings, Cornett, Newman.. all experienced... Tough to knock.

    RIT... I am prejudiced, so take that into consideration... Cannot replace Carson, however Kornichak, Lowe, Sweet, have been through the wars...actually Carson only one gone.... I don't think OUR offense will suffer too much, but our rebounding and defense will......... HOPEFULLY enough to make playoffs.

    NAZ.... Corey Mc Adam may be exposed this year. New Coach, MAY teach defense.. If Mc Adam plays defense he may actually get into foul trouble, which will hurt Naz big time..... I don't see any supporting cast, and if Mc Adam try's to do it all on offense, look for whoever he is guarding to light it up....  Thye could be under .500 this year.

    Utica... They not only lose Herring, they lose Maxwell, Smith and McClendon.. They return Patterson Trahams Whyte and Preston... I look for these guys to be about.500 on the league.

    Hartwick... They did learn how to win, but now a new coach, new system, maybe a coulpe of years away... They lose COCO and Bealieu, but I agree, Coco took away from team concept. The return Blazek, good freshman, and should build around him. decent role players.. Kyle, Phillips and Doyley.... another.500 team

    Stevens.... My adopted team since I see them the most and some alumni are friends of mine...This team will be very interesting this year. They lose Virgil Grey, who was a good talent, but unfortunate for him, he didn't have that point guard who could create for him... The loss of Greco last year was devistating for Grey. The loss of Passalaqua is not really a big deal either in that while he could shoot, he necver went to the basket, and like Mc Adams he avoided defense because he wanted to stay in game..  I am told the person he guarded had career games quite often. His steals came away from the ball.  Baker leaving means nothing, just less turn-overs. So overall this is addition through subtraction. The rumor about Greco being back turns out true. He will be playing again, and that may save the Ducks. The 3 point shooting they lose from Passalaqua will be picked up by Greco, Cutri, and some benck players... Higgans and Smith will be tough off boards, as long as they stay out of fould trouble..... If this team looks to run they could be a tough out. They will have some court IQ and toughness back with Greco, and could surprise a bit.  I look for 9-7......

    Alfred... Greatt coaching job last year from Wellman, they will certainly inprove... need some height but could win 6- 7 games.

    Elmira.. Tough to chart..,  everyone back except O'Brien. I think Torgalksi has the ability to coach, needs to recruit... This would be his first recruiting class....wait and see here.





    Fisher
    RIT
    Stevens
    IC
    Naz
    Alfred
    Hartwick
    Utica
    Elmira


    Apologies for mispelling, forgetting someone, or even putting someone on wrong team, because remember What do I know


    TALK ABOUT GETTING NOVEL...........sorry.

       
         
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 12, 2009, 07:26:01 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 12, 2009, 08:30:13 AM
    tip off this wknd
    cards- give me the skinny after the game!!

    I am still working on the boys to see if they can stick around and let me go to the game, but I will let you know what I see if I go. I have a new internet phone, so I am hoping to update from the game if I can get it figured out. I starting to get really excited now about the season for Fisher. Everything I am hearing and seeing is that the incoming class is a talented bunch, and that they may finally have the quality big man they have been lacking in years past. I think they can have a big year in the league. I will take making the tournament after last years showing. Adding a little depth, and hopefully a lot of talent looks good for them.
    We will know early on if they have what it takes. They play Carnegie Mellon (lost a lot to graduation from last year, but still a UAA team, and was in the Sweet 16 last year), Desales (Sweet 16 team last year, including the win over IC), and Brockport (I believe a sweet 16 team last year). Should be a fun start to the season.


    I read in the Ithaca paper today that they have the nephew(?) of Pete Maravich? I don't care if he sits all season that is cool.
    Title: Re: Empire 8 / Stevens frosh
    Post by: bmull on November 12, 2009, 09:27:19 PM
    FYI  Sheldon Jones was a very productive PSAL  player at Townsend Harris in Queens, a rigorous academic HS that had big hoops success his jr and sr years - he could be an impact frosh.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 13, 2009, 09:08:06 AM
    Empire 8  Coaches pre-season picks are in...

    Fisher
    RIT
    IC
    Naz
    Alfred
    Stevens
    UC
    Elmira
    Hartwick


    Our (RIT) first 3 conference games...Fisher (away) Stevens (Home) and Naz (away)...
    Should tell a lot...  Fisher away is going to be tough, because their good and home. Stevens will be interesting game... we'll see what they have. We should have the advantage being home, even if they are better than projected. Naz away.... If there is such a thing as an early MUST win, this might be it. We can't give the teams fighting for the top 4 an advantage. We do not play Fisher, IC or NAZ in our last 5 Conference games. The 3 games prior are all at Clark.. IC, Fisher, and NAZ...We have a great schedule Conference wise. No excuses. What do think TIGERFAN........ ???

    BMULL, thanks for the info on Sheldon Jones.. Stevens could use some help from the incoming freshman. I heard he is athletic, 6' 1",  a little out of control (not sure how disciplined his HS program was and he is a freshman.).... Small forward type slasher ??? does that sound right ???  Stevens opens against NYU away... Tough, but should prepare them for Conference play. The Ducks open Conference play on the road AT Alfred, and AT RIT.... Another early Must win for the Ducks, at Alfred. If in fact Alfred is going to be an issue this year, and IF Ducks expect to make a run at top 4, they need that win...BUT what do I know ;)   



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FreddyState on November 14, 2009, 02:02:11 AM
    What league do you think is better this year E8 or SUNYAC??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2009, 02:42:37 PM
    nice win by the alma mater today.
    lets hope that it is a sign of things to come!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 15, 2009, 05:24:32 PM
    Quote from: FreddyState on November 14, 2009, 02:02:11 AM
    What league do you think is better this year E8 or SUNYAC??

    Tough call this year. I don't know if there is a real dominant team in either league. I will give the edge to the E8 this year, because I am assuming Ithaca and Naz will be quality teams this year. If their seasons go the wrong way this year, then the power can swing towards the SUNYAC conference.

    Quality win for Fisher today, on the road against a sweet 16 team a year ago. I know Carnegie Mellon lost a lot to graduation from last year, but they are still a tough UAA team on the road. Could be a fun year if Fisher can play like this every game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 16, 2009, 10:33:08 AM
    Quote from: FreddyState on November 14, 2009, 02:02:11 AM
    What league do you think is better this year E8 or SUNYAC??

    Well judging by the sunyac-killers (elmira!?) the early signs point to the e8:

    Elmira 83 Fredonia 77
    Utica 84.  Potsdam 84

    This is the second year in a row elmira knocks off a respectable sunyac team (beat cortland last year).  Already have 25% of their win total from last year. 

    In other news.....stevens gets routed by 24 @ NYU, hartwick wins against wells, and alfred falls to psu dubois by 3.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 16, 2009, 11:16:36 AM
    Nice job by Fisher.. Gettings a good game and it's good to win close early...
    I went to NYU yesterday and I clearly don't know anything about basketball. NYU is missing Gavan, who was on crutches.. I am not sure if that season ending or not... someone, student,  in stands said it was, but what does he know?   Stevens starts out with the obvious starting 5...Greco, Higgans, Cutri, Masone, and Smith....  2 minutes in, Greco comes out.   Was playing fine, actually had a good match-up with Derek Becker and was handling the offense like old times. Freshman Russ Thompson comes in... Plays about 5 minutes. This kid has a nice shot, but made some freshman mistakes ( no penetration as a point guard and afraid to pass to the interior.)  Evidenced by no assists for the game. Also lacks the defense on quicker guards. By the time Greco came back in, the Ducks were down by a dozen. Higgans got off to a bad start shooting wise and he sat most of the game.  It almost appeared that the Ducks conceded the game and decided to use the freshman and sophomores for the bulk of the game.  They have some talent but I think the Ducks can't sacrifice wins. Cutri couldn't hit a shot, which also hurt. They looked confused on offense without Higgans and Greco in....NYU hit almost 50% from the field and missed only one foul shot which was tough to overcome.  They actually looked pretty good when they had Greco at the point and used Thompson at the 2. Greco hit a driving lay-up to open the second half, and cut the lead to 6 and then again came out???? Then NYU went on another tear.  This team did not run, and the bigs didn't post up much. very confused on offense. They need to run on offense and take the open shot when it arises. too much dribbling ( Thompason).  Sheldon jones another freshman had 17 points.. Good news is he is not intimidated, bad news is once he gets the ball he is shooting, "black hole" scenario. If the coaches tone him back a bit and is more selective he can be a help.  
    I guess my assessment is they aren't set on who is going to lead this team... Last year they lost a lot of close games because they didn't have a floor general. Someone who knows how to lead the offense. They can't make that mistake again.   They have the perfect guy, just need to let him make the  decisions. I may have been missing something and NYU was clearly the better team. But what do I know ;)      
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 16, 2009, 11:31:14 AM
    Fromafar - nice analysis - seems like stevens is still trying to work things out and I had a feeling they would struggle early.  I don't know how strong nyu is but I still don't see stevens being all that good.  Hurley is a good coach but I don't think there is a whole lot of talent this year. 

    Ithaca opens tonight against an experienced hobart team that returns pretty much everyone.  After the drubbing IC put on them last year (scored 118 and won by 37 or so), look for hobart to have a chip on their shoulders.  Look forward to seeing how this bomber team responds after a few up and down scrimmages against wells, pitt bradford, and an ic alumni team. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 16, 2009, 12:18:53 PM
    NYU is big but not strong. The guards can be pressured into mistakes. , but they can shoot.  I am not so sure how good Hurley is. This is his first recruiting class, as the sophomores were recruited by Loeffler. They need some leadership and they need a purpose on offense. Too many different combinations can caused confusion. I can see Higgan's Greco and Masone providing a sound base for the freshman to learn from. All 3 are gutsy players not afraid to make decisions, and that's what the younger players need. But they need to be given a rythm together, and I truly believe they can make the conference tourney... hopefully not at RIT's expense.
    All 3 need to play 25+ a game....and get that rythm....believe me this will help the freshman and sophomores mature. It will keep the morale of the team up as well.   hey way to go Elmira, Utica and Hartwick....the league may be better than I thought, BUT what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 16, 2009, 08:30:56 PM
    Ithaca leads Hobart 88-81 with 6:30 to go...Jordan Marcus already has 41 points!!! :o :o
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 16, 2009, 08:31:28 PM
    We should get an idea about Elmira if they can knock off Cortland tomorrow. That would be two impressive wins for a team that really struggled last year. Not that C-State and Fredonia are world beaters, but they are better than a few in the Sunyac.

    I wonder which is the best conference in upstate NY this year? If you had to rank the E8, LL, and Sunyac, how would it go? We should get some insight on this as IC plays Hobart. You never know with Hobart. Sometimes they can make life very difficult, sometimes they can just fade away. I will take IC in that one.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 16, 2009, 08:32:56 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 16, 2009, 08:30:56 PM
    Ithaca leads Hobart 88-81 with 6:30 to go...Jordan Marcus already has 41 points!!! :o :o

    And IC continues to put up huge numbers on offense. I didn't think they would score nearly as much as last year with all that they lost. They will most likely get over 100 tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 16, 2009, 08:54:04 PM
    Marcus finishes with 45, Bombers win 108-93.  Freshman point guard Sean Rossi with 16 points and 12 assists in his college debut.  The Pistol Pete nephew Eli Maravich had 10 in his first game.  IC started 4 underclassmen, has only 2 seniors on the roster and most of what did the damage tonight are freshmen and sophomores.  Mark me down as officially intrigued.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 16, 2009, 09:50:42 PM
    After hearing some things about the Bombers early season ups and downs this weekend, I was surprised to see them win by such a large margin. Haven't seen the box score yet, but seems like when Ithaca shoots it well they can play with any team. Congratulations to Jordan Marcus.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 16, 2009, 10:10:37 PM
    rediculous how much IC can fill it up when they shoot well. They drop 100 like other teams hit 80. The key for them this year will be to play night in and night out with the intensity needed to win at this level.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 17, 2009, 01:09:23 AM
    Good evening my e8 friends, sorry for such a delay but I'm back in action now.


    Took in the NYU/Stevens contest and I have much to say about that. FROMAFAR, what's going on buddy, glad to see someone talked some Ducks until I could get here.

    For my take, an 83-59 score is about what I expected from the Ducks.  The consensus from anyone you talk to associated with the Stevens team is that this team is 2 years away from being worth mentioning.  They have young talent in Thompson and Jones (think Ozell Franklin) that should be good building blocks, along with Simon Smith, for an e8 run in future years, but there is one glaring hole on this team:  They have no playmakers.

    I really mean zero.  No one that can penetrate and make plays for other people.

    Double F, I know you are a huge Greco fan, and I think he is a very solid point guard.  However, he has never been a playmaker, and I don't think that's the best part of his game.  Sunday he played 16 minutes (about 13 too few), but only had 1 assist.  In his only full season as a starter (07-08) he averaged roughly 24 minutes and under 3 assists per night.  And that was on a team with Farid, Gray, Passalacqua, and Williams.  By comparison, the kid Morris (06-07), who I know was a much different style of player and is the school's all time assist leader, played 30 games with the same group, minus Williams, and had 142 assists.  I truly believe Greco's game suffers when he tries to become a distributer, because he is a good offensive player and a very good shooter.  However, when he tries to become a playmaker he looks passive and doesn't score.  So when Thompson goes in and does score, he stays on the court.  

    Given the fact that Stevens is going to have trouble scoring all season consistently, whichever player is going to put more pressure on a defense between Greco or Thompson is the one that is going to get the bulk of the minutes.  And I think that Greco has it in him to easily be a 12-14 point a night guy, but he has to play like it.  Unlike in the past, there are no other options.

    Greco, Higgins, and Masone are extremely tough kids who have worked hard and improved tremendously from their freshman years.The problem is on this team I think all 3 are going to have to play above and beyond anything we've seen from them, because the team is extremely young and I just don't put a lot of faith in freshman.

    Lastly, as has always been noted with Stevens, interior defense is non-existant.  If you play against the Ducks and have anyone on your team who posted up once in high school, put him in the paint and throw him the ball.  I am assured he will score at least 10 points.  Even on their good teams interior defense hasn't been a strength, and I don't see anyone on the roster that is going to give them that presence.


    I hope this doesn't come across too negative, just trying to give a prospective of what I saw.  Last years group was 13-13 overall and I think, looking at their schedule, this years Ducks will be around 11-15.  Of course, I know the e8 lost a lot so it depends how some of the other teams look, but I think Stevens is just in a rebuilding year.    
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 17, 2009, 08:17:56 AM
    What do we know about Hobart?  Did IC just catch an early cupcake or did they just hang 108 on a decent to good team on the road?

    Caz, I am with you.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 17, 2009, 08:39:56 AM
    Great to see the bombers win going away against an experienced hobart team.  Marcus was unconscious and tied a single game school record  after putting up a goose egg three days earlier in the alumni scrimmage.  Although I won't say this was expected but after putting up 25 and 27(?) last year in limited minutes you could say he had the potential for going off if he got a full 40. Definitely wouldn't have expected it in the first game of the season. Great to see them open strong and hopefully they can get a couple wins this weekend in the Amherst tourney.

    Couple pieces of random info about the bombers:

    The Maravich kid is not the nephew of Pete Maravich.  He is related but its not as clear cut as uncle/nephew. More along the lines of second cousin.....or so I'm told.

    Jordan Marcus was the national jewish high school player of the year his senior year of high school.  I don't care what the award is but if you're the national winner of anything, that's impressive.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 17, 2009, 08:50:19 AM
    Cyclone I missed you......glad to see you back... Your analysis of Stevens is very accurate and you don't sound negative at all. You are right, I am a big Greco fan...and you are correct about him being a scorer.  I loved his intensity and playing ability as a freshman. he and Higgans gave Stevens a swagger...It looks like the coaches, Loeffler and Hurley wanted him to be a pure point and not look for his shots especially early in the set. If they let him go a bit they will get that 12-15 a night and as far D goes... he shut down Becker.. completely and had two steals.. He doesn't turn the ball over either...... He also makes the coach look better, in that the team always looks organized when he is on the court. When he is out there is that "deer in the headlights" look. He does need to play 30 minutes as you state. If Hurley goes with the freshman, they will be lucky to win 8 this year. Thompson has a nice shot, but has that Pasasalaqua tendency to avoid fouls, thus allowing points. He should be used 10 minutes at the point to give Greco a blow, and then play the 2 for about 5-6 minutes. Jones should spell Higgans for about 16 minutes.. Jones can score but what do you think... a little out of Control.. looks like a freshman..Higgans is extremely aggressive and doesn't worry about fouls...With this team that's a good thing..  Masone is your true "blue collar worker", hustles all the time and bangs with the big boys. Hurley seems to be reverting to the constant substitution system, which I don't like. Higgans missed few early shots, and was never given a chance to correct... So I agree, with your analysis....I think Hurley will realize he needs these guys, don't forget Stevens is not patient with coaches.. a 15 win season would be a feather for Hurley. BUT what do I know ;)    


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 17, 2009, 09:34:19 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 17, 2009, 08:39:56 AMMarcus was unconscious and tied a single game school record  after putting up a goose egg three days earlier in the alumni scrimmage.

    I haven't participated in an alumni scrimmage in about five years but, unless things have changed dramatically, I can think of a few physical limitations that exist during the alumni game that usually don't exist during the regular season opener...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 17, 2009, 12:37:24 PM
    Cyclone, I looked up that year Greco started at the point... He was 20-5 as a starter... He avg. just under 3 assists..  farid had 150+assists, Greco took the second most 3's on the team... so it appears Loeffler used him as a
    1 1/2... which is really what he is.  he can dish on the break as good as any. That might be what this team should be doing by the way... They were clearly quicker than NYU but they like that deliberate offense :'( should have run more.... When I referenced Deer in the Headlights in previous post I meant when Greco was NOT on the court...Anyway.... I need to concentrate on the Tigers....... Cyclone I need you to keep us posted on Ducks..... I will try to get to Tourney at Hoboken this weekend. Friday will be tough... 4 PM game but Sunday is doable....Maybe they will make the changes we suggested ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 17, 2009, 01:29:16 PM
    No worries, I should have the Ducks all cover.  I'm sure I'll be able to make a majority of the games and I think the team will really improve as the year goes.

    You're right, Greco definitely is a tweener.  His mentally and offensive skill set lends itself more to the 2, but his size puts him in the 1 position.  I think what made the 06-07 team so special was that Morris could distribute from the 1, Greco could slide in at the 2 when Passalacqua wasn't playing defense (more often than not) and then Gray and Farid could focus on scoring.

    This years team should be running, and running, and running.  I don't like the pace they played at with NYU because if you are going to be deliberate, you have to be efficient, and efficient teams generally aren't teams that are going to rely on jumpshooting the way the Ducks will have to this year.

    I think their best lineup is probably Thompson, Greco, Jones, Higgins, and Smith.  I know it's a smallish group, but the players of size they have don't do any better rebounding/defending the post than anyone else.  Higgins and Smith have defended post more often than not, and I think those 3 guards, given time to gel, have skill sets that work well with each other.  Cutri is a heady kid and would by my 6th man, along with Masone, but neither one is going to provide enough offense on an offensively limited team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 17, 2009, 02:04:28 PM
    Cyclone...You should be coaching...... I think you are exactly right on the Ducks, that would be the best 5 to play consistantly...You should drop Hurley a line.. he could use the advise.. That would create match-up problems for most opponents.  As long as they RUN RUN RUN.. Greco bringing it up, could dish to Jones and Higgans going to the hole, penetrate a bit and kick to Thompson, and Smith is probably quicker than most bigs out there...AND Greco shoots best off the dribble...They are not going to win a close low scoring game because they can't keep teams from scoring... They pressed a bit Sunday, but Higgans and Greco ( there I go again) are the two best at creating turnovers, were not in enough, and they should never press without them in...If you see that line up let me know...Good job..............
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 17, 2009, 07:48:41 PM
    Nice to see teh boards starting to heat up again now that the season is under way. Welcome back everyone. Looks like the Empire 8 might be a strong conference this year with a lot of teams getting quality wins in their first game. I hate that Fisher has to wait so long to get to their second game, but that is how it goes sometimes. Hopefully they can look sharp again. Winning those two games, against two sweet 16 teams from a year ago, could really set this season up for them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 17, 2009, 09:47:43 PM
    I haven't gotten a chance to check on how some of the other e8 team rosters have shaped up (will be updated myself over the rest of the week), but is the consensus that the conference is up, even, or down from last year?

    I'm just thinking about the players that have been lost (Burton, Bostic, Leahy, Carson, Gray, Passalacqua, Jan CoCo, McAdam, etc) and I'm wondering if the league is more balanced because the top teams as a whole aren't as good (think Big Ten football) or because everyone just got a lot better.

    I would think Ithaca, Naz, and RIT would have smallish steps backward because of the great players they lost, but still be pretty good.  I know Fisher is going to be better.  I think Stevens is going to be about the same, if not slightly back.  I'm not sure about the rest of the conference.  Just trying to get a feel for how the conf looks in general.  I know it's early in the season to judge with most teams having only played 1 game.

    I guess I'll phrase it this way.  If as a whole the conference last year was an 8, this year it is a ______.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 18, 2009, 08:44:18 AM
    Utica knocks off another SUNYAC team, this time @ Oswego. After beating Potsdam sunday they're 2-0 now. I don't know how good those SUNY teams are but I wouldn't sleep on Utica.  Coaches pick them to finish 7th in the e8 but I just don't see it.   
    Also, cortland avenges last year's terrible loss @ elmira by winning by 20+ yesterday. Supposedly a freshman and transfer combined for about 35 so they apparently have some new blood.

    Alfred beats keuka and naz falls to roberts wesleyan. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 18, 2009, 08:57:30 AM

    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on November 17, 2009, 09:47:43 PM

    I guess I'll phrase it this way.  If as a whole the conference last year was an 8, this year it is a ______.

    Overall I think it will be a little down but not much. A number of teams have gotten better (Fisher, alfred, elmira) and the teams that will regress won't do so by much. I don't think the SUNYAC is strong at all this year other than about two or three teams so it may seem like the e8 is up. I'm not too sure about the Liberty League.  So to answer your question I would say 7 or 7.5.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 18, 2009, 09:15:29 AM
    Cyclone... Based on the start I am going with an 8...  same as last year.. The small drop at the top, is less than the small improvement at the botto, and the middle basically remains the same....Not necessarily the same teams.....The top this year being Fisher, and RIT ..........the bottom being Elmira and Hartwick....   The middle 3-7  almost being interchangeable.. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Go Naz on November 18, 2009, 11:25:35 AM
    Hello all, new to the boards this year.  Had my first chance to see Naz last night as they lost to Roberts at the Blue Cross.  Naz did not look sharp and was handled rather easily by Roberts for most of the game.  A run made Roberts lead 5 with about 9 minutes left but that was as close as Naz would get.  A few notes:

    -Naz shot 4 of 26 from 3 for the game.  This should improve, a number of the shots missed were good looks. 

    -Naz was hurt in the paint.  Right now the have no presence in the paint.  They lost a lot of size last year and it showed.  While their guards did a nice job rebounding the ball, they had a difficult time guarding the post players from Roberts. 

    -Jason Corletta looked good.  He has improved and should become a major scoring threat this year.  Look for him to make up for some of  the poinst lost through graduation

    -Naz is YOUNG.  They have 11 guys on the roster and only 5 are returning players.  Mcadam is the only senior and there are no juniors.  They young guys have a lot of talent and I think several of them, especially Tyshun Stephens have bright futures.  They will however go through the ups and downs that come with most freshmen.

    Overall, I was not happy with the Naz performance but also not too concerned this early in the year.  They will not see many other teams with that kind of size in the E-8.  Mcadam gives them a chance to win every night and the young guys will come along.  I feel like they could be a slow starter this year but finish strong once their youth matures a little bit. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 18, 2009, 11:27:15 AM
    Quote from: Go Naz on November 18, 2009, 11:25:35 AM-Naz shot 4 of 26 from 3 for the game.  This should improve, a number of the shots missed were good looks. 

    Ho.Ly. Crap.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 18, 2009, 04:50:16 PM
    In the interest of sparking some conversation I wonder who the best and worst E8 teams in the last 5-10 years are.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 18, 2009, 04:57:03 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 18, 2009, 04:50:16 PM
    In the interest of sparking some conversation I wonder who the best and worst E8 teams in the last 5-10 years are.

    Postseason choke aside, IC's 2008-2009 team was pretty amazing to watch. Fisher had a team ('04? '05?) that ran the table I believe
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 18, 2009, 05:39:01 PM
    I think we did this a year or two ago but I'd add:

    1999-2000 IC team with Pat Britton, Ryan Bamford, John Lyons, Aaron Spearman et al.

    2001-2002 Alfred with EJ Docteur and that tough-ass guard whose name escapes me at the moment.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Michigan452 on November 18, 2009, 06:31:09 PM
    Just wanted to start off the season by saying that Fisher had a good early win at Carnegie Mellon.  They seemed to have played pretty well.  They seem to be really deep this year.  Moving Franklin to the bench seems to be working for now, but we will see how long that lasts.  I also think that Kornaker could make some better decisions by playing different rotations early in order to figure out who plays best with eachother.  The fact is that Fisher is going to be a powerhouse this year in the empire 8 because they have superior talent.  If coaching does not get in the way they could be very successful.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 18, 2009, 08:47:37 PM
    Quote from: Michigan452 on November 18, 2009, 06:31:09 PM
    Just wanted to start off the season by saying that Fisher had a good early win at Carnegie Mellon.  They seemed to have played pretty well.  They seem to be really deep this year.  Moving Franklin to the bench seems to be working for now, but we will see how long that lasts.  I also think that Kornaker could make some better decisions by playing different rotations early in order to figure out who plays best with eachother.  The fact is that Fisher is going to be a powerhouse this year in the empire 8 because they have superior talent.  If coaching does not get in the way they could be very successful.

    Tough to say that Coaching might get in the way for Fisher. I think most would agree that Kornaker is one of the better coaches in the conference. To be honest, I am of the oppinion that Kornaker is one of the better coaches in the East Region. He gets recruits from a large area, seems to compete against the U of R's and Brockports for area talent, and has an almost rediculous record in his time as head coach. Lets not forget the undefeated season, and a few trips deep into the tourny.

    I think the key for Fisher this year will be getting contributions from young talent, and seeing of the Big man can really play. I think Fisher will be a tough out this year in the E8, but I doubt coaching will be the issue.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: UCpride on November 19, 2009, 02:26:52 AM
    Just watched some footage of Utica playing Oswego and though I was worried of how they would rebound after losing 4 or 5 seniors, they actually look better than they did last yr. Remember UC struggled last yr. against Oswego and would have lost if it wasnt for a last second runner by then Sophmore PG James Patterson. Though im sure they will miss Doug Herrings amazing athleticism I think they'll do just fine. Senior Pat Goodman had 27 and 14 rebounds and Junior James Patterson almost had a double double also with 12 points and 9 assist not to mention 7 rebounds. Also where did the Abrams kid come from, he added 15 points and could have easily had 20 to 25 if he got a few more touches. A friend of mine thats still at the school told me he was gonna be big this yr. but I didnt believe it. Well only time will tell whats in store for my Pioneers. I cant wait till they pla NAZ in a couple weeks, McAdam and Patterson are by far the best PGs in the league. LETS GO UC 2-0

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on November 19, 2009, 08:43:11 AM
    Quote from: Go Naz on November 18, 2009, 11:25:35 AM
    Hello all, new to the boards this year.  Had my first chance to see Naz last night as they lost to Roberts at the Blue Cross.  Naz did not look sharp and was handled rather easily by Roberts for most of the game.  A run made Roberts lead 5 with about 9 minutes left but that was as close as Naz would get.  A few notes:

    -Naz shot 4 of 26 from 3 for the game.  This should improve, a number of the shots missed were good looks. 

    -Naz was hurt in the paint.  Right now the have no presence in the paint.  They lost a lot of size last year and it showed.  While their guards did a nice job rebounding the ball, they had a difficult time guarding the post players from Roberts. 

    -Jason Corletta looked good.  He has improved and should become a major scoring threat this year.  Look for him to make up for some of  the poinst lost through graduation

    -Naz is YOUNG.  They have 11 guys on the roster and only 5 are returning players.  Mcadam is the only senior and there are no juniors.  They young guys have a lot of talent and I think several of them, especially Tyshun Stephens have bright futures.  They will however go through the ups and downs that come with most freshmen.

    Overall, I was not happy with the Naz performance but also not too concerned this early in the year.  They will not see many other teams with that kind of size in the E-8.  Mcadam gives them a chance to win every night and the young guys will come along.  I feel like they could be a slow starter this year but finish strong once their youth matures a little bit. 



    RWC is also a tough opener because they have been practicing for a month more than NCAA teams and have had 5 games prior to the Naz game. They are in the flow, coach has rotations going, everyone is used to each other's games and such...that is also quite an advantage.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 19, 2009, 09:06:21 AM
    Quote from: UCpride on November 19, 2009, 02:26:52 AM
    Just watched some footage of Utica playing Oswego and though I was worried of how they would rebound after losing 4 or 5 seniors, they actually look better than they did last yr. Remember UC struggled last yr. against Oswego and would have lost if it wasnt for a last second runner by then Sophmore PG James Patterson. Though im sure they will miss Doug Herrings amazing athleticism I think they'll do just fine. Senior Pat Goodman had 27 and 14 rebounds and Junior James Patterson almost had a double double also with 12 points and 9 assist not to mention 7 rebounds. Also where did the Abrams kid come from, he added 15 points and could have easily had 20 to 25 if he got a few more touches. A friend of mine thats still at the school told me he was gonna be big this yr. but I didnt believe it. Well only time will tell whats in store for my Pioneers. I cant wait till they pla NAZ in a couple weeks, McAdam and Patterson are by far the best PGs in the league. LETS GO UC 2-0



    I wouldn't go putting Patterson in the same league as McAdam just yet.  McAdam is by far the best point in the league then everyone else comes after.  I think Newman from Fisher is right up there with Patterson and even possibly freshman Sean Rossi from Ithaca.  He should put up huge numbers in the Bombers offense and had 16 and 12 in game one. Patterson should be an all-conference player this year but don't think him and McAdam are alone up at the top

    And in regard to the worst teams of the past decade you have to look @ 2007-2008 Alfred judging by record.  They were 2-21 (1-15 in conference) for am overall win percentage of 8%.  The average margin of victory was 16 points and here is the nail in the coffin...the coach left to take the women's position after the year.  That should be saying something.  The did bounce back pretty solidly under new leadership the following year however with most of the same lineup.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 19, 2009, 09:28:52 AM
    On past performance, we can annoint McAdam... But let's remember he has a different supporting cast... as a matter of fact we can't annoint anyone at this POINT (excuse the PUN).....One game in, not enough..... Korinchak and Lowe gave some good minutes in our ( RIT) first game but they could regress in game 2....Mc Adam was 4-15  from the field, 2 assists and 6 T/O.... I know he is the heir apparent but again... let's see what happens this year. There are a lot of point guards out there that could rise from the ashes so to say.... I need to get through at least 3 Conference games before I start looking at ALL Conference and that may be too early....HOWEVER  good chatter... love it... Michigan..... any short comings Fisher may have won't be because of coaching.......IF their talent is as good as is being touted, then they will win...... Korny won't have it any other way....... Their are some suspect coaches in this league, but I don't like knocking anyone on the board, because as I always say What do I know ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 19, 2009, 10:51:43 AM
    I agree with Bomber3 it is too early for discussions for best PG.  Newman is definately up there he is a 4 year starter for the best team in the league.  He may not put up the numbers but numbers arn't everything.  No one from fisher ever puts up big numbers.  As far as Mcadam I know he puts up unreal stats but everytime he matches up with Newman, Newman handles him.  Naz's system is different than fisher, Naz always has people with great stats but no wins to show for it.  And Rossi, I havn't seen him from Ithaca, but the way ithaca has played past few years and high scoring offense strategy, I don't see puting up large numbers to be comparable either.  I also think jordan gettings from fisher is one of the top point guards, the kid can flat out play.  Either way, all mentioned are pretty good, just too early to tell who is the best at this point. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Go Naz on November 19, 2009, 11:26:31 AM
    How can you say that Newman handles Mcadam every time they face each other?  The last 6 times they have faced each other look like this:

    Corey: 16.5 ppg, 7.3 apg
    Newman: 11.8ppg, 4 apg

    Naz has won 4 of those 6 games, one of which was a conference championship.  It's tough to make the argument that Newman handles Mcadam when Corey puts up better number and his team wins.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 19, 2009, 11:59:13 AM
    good point. I guess i was referring to newmans fresh year when i saw them go head to head and Mcadam was getting all of the hype but I just didnt see it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 19, 2009, 12:30:22 PM
    This is going to show you how much I pay attention............Does Newman actually play the point....... he always seems to be in the off guard position when I have watched him.... am I completely off base????  I have to tell you, McAdams would drive me crazy if I coached him... (maybe that's why I don't coach) He seems to dribble too much., too many turnovers for me.... BUT BUT BUT I know he ends up with the numbers...... so what do I know....... I prefer, the Burton and of course Greco style at the point.. either shoot or get rid of it quickly............ ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 19, 2009, 10:19:09 PM
    I think Newman is built for the 2 spot physically, but he has been forced into the point a little bit, since Fisher has not had a great alternative in the past 4 years. I think his numbers lack sometimes since he looks to set up the shooters like Ozell. McAdam is much better at getting his when it comes to scoring, but Newman is a nice player at the 1 spot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 20, 2009, 02:21:43 PM
    The Bombers travel to mass. to play in the Amherst tournament this weekend.  They take on Endicott (1-1) tonight where they should be the slight favorite. Endicott lost to Vassar and beat Framingham state and still seems to be figuring out what they have (played 12 players in a 3 point win). We'll see if Jordan Marcus can raise that scoring average this weekend.

    In a second round matchup they will play either host and perennial national power Amherst (0-0, 21-7 last year) or Maine-Farmington (0-0, 13-12 last year). Amherst is ranked 25th in the preseason poll and hopefully the bombers match up with them in the tournament finals.  Go bombers!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 20, 2009, 08:29:53 PM
    Caught the Stevens game today, a blowout win for the Ducks.  King's is a horrible team but hung with the Ducks more than the score shows.  Game got within 8 with 5 minutes to go after Stevens had taken like a 20 point lead.

    Greco led the way with 16 points and 10 assists.  Had roughly 6 turnovers but a lot of that was unforced with him reading a play differently than the teammate.  Out of the 6 I think 3 were actually his fault.  Higgins shot the ball well, finishing with 19.  If the Ducks are going to be good this year, these two have to play this way.  Smith chimed in with 8 and 9.

    Big Problem AGAIN!  The Kid Conroy for Kings, who is maybe 6'5", had an EASY 25 points in the paint tonight.  Was scoring at will on Smith or Franklin.  If Stevens doesn't get this corrected they are going to lose to any team with a legitimate post man.


    Best lineup used tonight was Greco at 1, Thompson at 2, Cutri at 3, Higgins at 4, Smith at 5.  Hurley went to these extensively both times that Stevens went on runs to stretch the lead.  Sheldon Jones had an off night and is aggressive but limited offensively.  I think he can score, but he doesn't have a great handle.  Just more athletic ability.


    Nice win for the Ducks to get off the bubble.  See how they play Sunday against a bigger and much more athletic Babson team that was in the stands watching I think.  I saw someone else there, I assumed it would be them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 20, 2009, 08:42:20 PM
    Ithaca leads Endicott College 34-28 at the half. Marcus with 10, and Barera with 8   top the Bombers scoring.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 20, 2009, 09:11:29 PM
    If the Bombers win their game tonight they get to tackle #25 ranked Amherst tomorrow at 3 PM in the Championship of the Ken Wright '52 Memorial Tournament.
    The Lord Jeffs defeated Maine-Farmington earlier tonight 76-51.

    Cortland St. won tonight at the Williams Invitational and will probably face off against Williams tomorrow provided the Ephs get by So. Vermont in a game going on right now. Williams had an 11 pt lead 41-30 but So. Vermont has come back to close within 3, 44-41 at the break.

    Be interesting to see how well an E8 title contender and a SUNYAC title contender match up against  2 of the top teams in NESCAC. Hixon usually reloads well and this year appears to be no different as The Lord Jeffs were led in scoring tonight by 6'9" 260 LB freshman center Peter Kaasila. He came off the bench and scored 14 pts in 17 minutes going 6x6 from the field, with 1 of those 6 field goals coming from behind the arc. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 20, 2009, 10:10:02 PM
    Ithaca over Endicott 78-69. Good Luck tomorrow against Amherst.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 20, 2009, 10:23:17 PM
    Hey cyclone did you speak with     hurley... based on what you saw, and report, you were right on with your projected best line up......You drew a nice picture.... I understand your analysis of the turnovers, the kid sees the court a split second ahead of everyone else, sometimes his team-mates are a step slower.. All in all sounds like they had a nice night and maybe just maybe someone is beginning to lead this team a bit on the court.......Didn't have that last year... I plan on going Sunday, I'll see if this continues.... Thanks Cyclone..........I'll see if I can do the same for Sundays game ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 20, 2009, 10:25:40 PM
    Ithaca was led by Jordan Marcus and Phil Barera with 20 points apiece. Barera also hauled down a game high 11 rebounds. Chris Cruz-Rivas added 15 pts with 8 boards and Sean Rossi was also in double figures with 14 pts.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 20, 2009, 10:32:08 PM
    FROMAFAR,

    I get to see your team tomorrow evening as RIT pulls into Plattsburgh for the Cardinal Classic. They take on Husson in the 1st game, followed by Plattsburgh St. against Norwich. I hope to see an RIT-PLattsburgh championship game on Sunday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 21, 2009, 06:19:59 AM
    In other E8 action on Friday night:

    Alfred moves to 2-1 by downing Penn St. York 81-54

    Nazareth pounds Marietta  95-67  to even their record at 1-1. 5 guys in double figures led by Corletta with 21 and McAdam with 19. Next up Buffalo St. in the Championship game of the Coles Classic. The Bengals with a 14-0 run late in the game to turn a 62-60 lead into a 76-60 advantage over Pitt Bradford. Final score was 81-69 and Bengals played without 6'7"  Antonio Samedi, their most experienced big man. Frosh Jake Simmons in his Buffalo St. debut scored 27 points and Soph Norman Simmons had 18. Anyone know if these guys are brothers? Be interesting to see how these teams match up. Bengals will miss Samedi though.

    Hartwick mows down Cazenovia 86-58 to move to 2-0. Mark Blazek was 6 for 6 from three pt. land and overall hit 8 of 14 shots to lead the Hawks with 26 pts.


    Utica College defeats Keuka 76-54 to move to 3-0 on the season and a showdown for hometown supremecy as they take on SUNYIT in the Championship game of the SUNYIT Tip-Off Tournament.  The Pioneers were led by Pat Goodman with a game high 22 pts. James Patterson added 15 pts and 5 rebounds.
    SUNYIT advanced to the championship game by stopping St Joseph(VT) 85-70. Dave Golembiowski led the wildcats with a double-double of 29 pts and 12 rebounds. Dave G went over the 1000 pt mark for his career Friday night. His 29 pts were scored on 11 of 16 from the field, including 5 of 9 from behind the arc. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 21, 2009, 09:55:48 AM
    I am excited to see how IC matches up against Amherst. That team is always very talented, and will be a real tough test for IC. Could be a big win for the E8 if IC can pull it out.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 21, 2009, 05:23:13 PM
    Ithaca got manhandled by Amherst today 92-67. Bombers kept it close for a while, only down 41-38 at the half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 21, 2009, 06:01:05 PM
    hey magic, give a good read on the tigers... I want to know how the guard play is in particular.....Tough to match Cyclones analysis of a game. Hey the E-8 is making a nice non conference statement overall... who knows this league may be not be down this year......... getting interesting.........

    Utica, Alfred, Naz, Stevens  and Hartwick.... nice job......yesterday............ ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 22, 2009, 02:17:35 AM
    FROMAFAR,

    Sorry to have to report that your Tigers dropped a 75-67 decision to the Husson University Eagles. I think they were the better team and should have gotten the W but things just didn't break their way. Probably, since you're interested in guard play, the 1st thing you need to know is that Nate Korinchhak didn't suit up for the game. Spoke to one of the players after the game and was told he's probably going to miss 3 games with an injury. Nothing serious.

    RIT came out of the gate slowly and fell behind early as neither team shot particularly well. Husson had a 6'4" forward who was very athletic, Joshua Jones and he was their go to guy. The Tigers finally got their offense in gear and went on a little run to grab a 17-11 lead 9 minutes into the game. Big guy Scott Young(33Min) led the surge with 3 treys and got some help from fellow big Brendan Harder(28M) and guard Shawn Roe(23M). Those 3 guys started the game as well as G Anthony Terry(15M) and G Marcus Lowe(30M). 1st guy off the bench was G Adam Sweet(27M), followed by G Darryl Anderson(26M). Nick Dobson, 6'6" Frosh spelled the bigs for 11 minutes and G/F Adam Haines(7M) were the only other players to see action. Tigers could really use another big reserve. When Young or Harder needs a break there's no one to pick up the slack. Frosh had 0 pts,(took no shots) 2 rebs, 3 fouls, and 2 turnovers. Haines was 0x2, 0 pts 2 boards.

    RIT maintained a 5-8 pt lead thru much of the 1st half then opened it to 13, 33-20 with 4:30 left, before settling for a 41-31 advantage at the break. Young was 4x5 from beyond the arc in the 1st half and had 14 pts and 4 rebounds. Harder had 7 pts and 6 boards and Roe hit 4x5 shots(1x1 3's) to total 9. That's the good news.

    The Tigers must have been kidnapped at halftime because the team that took the floor to start the 2nd half didn't resemble the same group of guys that ended the 1st half. RIT couldn't buy a basket or it seemed get many rebounds. Husson over the 1st 4:30 of the 2nd period outscored the Tigers 11-0 to take a 42-41 lead and stretched their run to 18-4 for a 49-45 lead with 12:30 left to play.  RIT tied it up at 51 with 10:15 remaining only to have the Eagles go back up by 6 at 59-53 at the 7 minute mark.  Again the Tigers fought back to tie it at 59 but 3 successive RIT possessions resulted in no points and Husson again went up by 6 and stretched it to 8 at 70-62 with 2 mins. to play. The Eagles matched them over the last few minutes to make the final 75-67.
    Tigers shot 17x29 in the 1st half but only 7x27 in the 2nd. Harder and Young with 10 rebounds between them in the 1st half only got 2 between them in the 2nd. I assume Korinchak is normally the point guard(I've never seen him play but know he led the team in assists last year) and without him it looked like the team lacked a true floor leader. Roe shot great in the first half but only took 2 shots in the 2nd hitting 1 to finish with 11 pts. Young ended up the games high scorer with 22 pts on 8x15 with 6 of those buckets from behind the arc. But he never got to the foul line . Spends most of his time out on the perimeter leaving only Harder to rebound . Harder is a scrapper inside, He was 5x8 from the field with 8 boards, 4 blocks, and 2 steals.  Roe seem to be the best shooter among the guards. Tonight it was point guard by committee due to Korinchak's absence as Lowe finished with 9 pts on 2x6fg 1x3 3's, 4x4 ft's, 5 assists and 2 steals with no TO's. Anderson had 5 pts on 2x7fg 1x2 ft's, 6 assists, 1 steal with 2 TO,s. Terry was 0x4 from the field, 2x4 ft's with 3 assists, 1 steal and 3 TO's. Wish  I could have given you better news and wish I could have seen the team with their true floor leader tonight. Tigers were outshot 49% to 43% & outrebounded 38 to 33. Eagles went to the line 26 times making 15. Tigers were 11 of 16.

    I did get to see this Jones kid from Husson though and came away quite impressed.
    He's only a sophomore and tonight he had 21 pts on 10x15 from the field. Was 0x2 from three pt land, 1x2 from the line, had 12 rebounds 3 assists, 1 blk, 1 steal and played the entire 4o minutes. Husson was a decent team, well coached, and I'm sure will be a tough game for Plattsburgh St. on Sunday afternoon.
    The Tigers play Norwich at 1PM.  That should be a decent game as well but your Tigers will win that one I believe.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on November 22, 2009, 07:42:25 AM
    Quote from: magicman on November 21, 2009, 06:19:59 AM
    Nazareth pounds Marietta  95-67  to even their record at 1-1. 5 guys in double figures led by Corletta with 21 and McAdam with 19. Next up Buffalo St. in the Championship game of the Coles Classic. The Bengals with a 14-0 run late in the game to turn a 62-60 lead into a 76-60 advantage over Pitt Bradford. Final score was 81-69 and Bengals played without 6'7"  Antonio Samedi, their most experienced big man. Frosh Jake Simmons in his Buffalo St. debut scored 27 points and Soph Norman Simmons had 18. Anyone know if these guys are brothers? Be interesting to see how these teams match up. Bengals will miss Samedi though.


    I believe that they are; at least that's what I saw on the SUNYAC board. They are both from Rochester, one graduated from East, the other from School of the Arts. No mention of it on the Buff St. site, but I couldn't find any bios there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2009, 07:43:16 PM
    As reported, Ithaca gets run off the floor in the 2nd half by Amherst and loses 92-67. Bombers rally late in the 1st half and close to 41-38 at half. Amherst quickly asserts control in 2nd half and wins going away.

    Ithaca has already hiked a startling 95 three-point FG's in three games (31.7 per game). That's too many. Even though Bostic was misused (under-utilized is probably more accurate), teams recognized the threat he posed. Opponents will take away the three-point shot and make Ithaca go inside to beat them. We'll see if Mullins takes what opponents give him or if he tries to jam the square peg into the round hole.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 22, 2009, 11:29:46 PM
    FROMAFAR is not going to be happy as his RIT Tigers lose another game they probably should have won. Norwich Cadets overcome a 12 pt 2nd half deficit to take down the Tigers 81-80 in overtime in the consolation game of the Cardinal Classic in Plattsburgh. RIT was down early on but finally gained their 1st lead, 16-15 at 11:16. Back and forth lead changes until the Tigers took the lead 29-28 with 4:50 left. Stretched lead to 37-30 and settled for a 39-34 advantage at the half. Continued to build on hafltime advantage and gained their largest lead of the game at 53-41 with 14:49 left to play. Cadets refuse to roll over and outscore the Tigers 21-6 over the next 6 mins. to take the lead 62-59 with 8:30 to go. Cadets extend lead to 70-64 but Scott Young hit 3 straight treys for RIT to give the Tigers the lead at 73-71 with 1:20 to go. 2 Norwich free throws tied it up and Young hit 2 foul shots to regain the lead 75-73. Norwich fg ties it up with 18 secs left and McVean calls a TO with 11 secs to set up the final shot. Anthony Terry drives to the basket with 2 secs left and dribbles the ball off his foot out of bounds and the game goes to OT.
    In OT teams exchange baskets and missed opportunities and Cadet fg gives them lead at 79-77. RIT's Anderson fouled and makes 1 of 2. Norwich miss, offensive rebound, and another miss, sends Tiger's Harder to the line but he misses the front end of 1&1. Cadets come down and score with 20 secs left to extend lead to 81-78. Tigers come down and run way to much clock, and then Anderson feeds Harder for an inside layup with 1.6 secs left. Scott Young has a monster game scoring 37 pts on 13 for 17 from the field and 2x2 from the line. 13 of his 17 field goal attempts were 3 pointers and he made NINE of em. He also had 9 boards. Terry chipped in with 17 pts on 6x15 fg 2x8 3's 3x3 ft. Harder added 13 pts on 5x13 fg, 3x5 ft along with 6 rebounds. Marcus Lowe started at the point and was alternated with Daryl Anderson. Together they were 1x10 from the field and 1x2 from the line. Lowe had 6 assists with 2 TO's, while Anderson had 2 assists and 2 TO's. As a team the Tigers shot 29x71 from the field(40.8%) and 9x12from the line(75%). Norwich outrebounded the Tigers 47-29 and shot the ball a little better 35x74(47.3%).
    Don't know why the Tigers didn't attempt a 3 with seconds left and Young knocking them down all day long. Bad choices, TO's and missed free throws in crunch time cost them the W.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 23, 2009, 08:41:10 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2009, 07:43:16 PMIthaca has already hiked a startling 95 three-point FG's in three games (31.7 per game). That's too many.

    Based on what?  This is an old coaching cliche retread promulgated by braindead TV analysts that have run out of things to say.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 23, 2009, 10:51:51 AM
    Quote from: JQV on November 23, 2009, 08:41:10 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2009, 07:43:16 PMIthaca has already hiked a startling 95 three-point FG's in three games (31.7 per game). That's too many.

    Based on what?  This is an old coaching cliche retread promulgated by braindead TV analysts that have run out of things to say.

    I wouldn't expect much to change moving forward either.  This is a guard oriented team with the offense built around Cruz, Marcus, and the new freshman guards.  Last year's team primarily played only one big man with Leahy at the 4 spot (who is more of a guard than big).  This year's team has been going with a similar rotation with only one true big man (either Brown or Barera) on the floor at a time.  Against Amherst they went with both of them to attempt to combat Amherst's huge starting 5 (all five starters over 6'4").  But basically its the same philosophy as last year, 4 shooters on the floor most of the game along with one big.  The guards are going to need to rebound more for this to be successful since this is smaller team and they got outrebounded by 20+ the other day.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 23, 2009, 11:54:45 AM
    Quote from: JQV on November 23, 2009, 08:41:10 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2009, 07:43:16 PMIthaca has already hiked a startling 95 three-point FG's in three games (31.7 per game). That's too many.

    Based on what?  This is an old coaching cliche retread promulgated by braindead TV analysts that have run out of things to say.


    Actually, this is a more accurate than not coaching philosophy based on basketball IQ and simple math.

    In college basketball you are lucky to consistently get up 65 shots a night.  If HALF of those shots are 3's, and only 1/3rd (or in Ithaca's case, 34% using a moving average of the last 5 years) are going in, well that means those 31 three's you are shooting is producing roughly 30 points.  And more often than not, you're not getting a chance at a put back, and certainly not at a foul call.  It just isn't an economical use of limited possession, regardless of your team make up.

    The perfect example is look at the teams that dominated last year (aka went to the Final Four) for both Division I AND Division 3.  That's Villanova, Kansas, UNC, Mich St.   plus F&M, Richard Stockton, Wash U, and Guilford.  Those are 8 different teams, some like Ithaca (Nova) and some vastly different.

    Out of those 8 teams, do you know how many averaged even 20 three point attempts per game?

    Zero.  And the Division 3 teams shot less 3's than the D1's.

    The year before that, using Division I and III final four teams again, you know how many averaged even 20 three point attempts per game?

    Zero.


    It's been proven every year in every march basketball tournament, teams that survive by the 3 point ball will lose more often than teams that are balanced.  And balanced in college basketball is not shoot as many 3's as 2's.  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 23, 2009, 12:39:56 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on November 23, 2009, 11:54:45 AMActually, this is a more accurate than not coaching philosophy based on basketball IQ and simple math.

    In college basketball you are lucky to consistently get up 65 shots a night.  If HALF of those shots are 3's, and only 1/3rd (or in Ithaca's case, 34% using a moving average of the last 5 years) are going in, well that means those 31 three's you are shooting is producing roughly 30 points.  And more often than not, you're not getting a chance at a put back, and certainly not at a foul call.  It just isn't an economical use of limited possession, regardless of your team make up.

    The perfect example is look at the teams that dominated last year (aka went to the Final Four) for both Division I AND Division 3.  That's Villanova, Kansas, UNC, Mich St.   plus F&M, Richard Stockton, Wash U, and Guilford.  Those are 8 different teams, some like Ithaca (Nova) and some vastly different.

    Out of those 8 teams, do you know how many averaged even 20 three point attempts per game?

    Zero.  And the Division 3 teams shot less 3's than the D1's.

    The year before that, using Division I and III final four teams again, you know how many averaged even 20 three point attempts per game?

    Zero.


    It's been proven every year in every march basketball tournament, teams that survive by the 3 point ball will lose more often than teams that are balanced.  And balanced in college basketball is not shoot as many 3's as 2's.  

    Oooh.  So close but, your entire argument that one stupid coaching cliche is legitimate is based on a second stupid coaching cliche.

    Why are you luck to get up 65 shots?  What is that based on?

    Since you are relying on IC's numbers, they got up an average of 97.9 shots last season and are averaging 95.7 shots through three games this season.

    Also, why are you "less likely to get putbacks?"  What is that based on? 

    Up next, let's debate the relevance of standing in a defensive stance for an arbitrary period of time and the value of slowly going through defensive slides.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 23, 2009, 12:44:13 PM
    JQV, you're joking right??


    You are telling me that Ithaca shot 98 shots in 40 minutes?  That is what you believed when you typed that?


    Ithaca, thru three games this season, has 192 shot attempts.  That is, guess what, 64 shots per game.  There isn't enough time in a game to shoot 98 shots.

    I'm going to assume you were just messing with us with that one.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 23, 2009, 12:54:49 PM
    Ohhh, I see what you did now.


    Umm, when reading a box score, above Field Goal Attempts and Makes it says "Total".  So when doing averages, you don't add that column to the 3 point attempts and makes.  That is factored into the total.  Someone who is 3-10 from the field and 3-3 from 3 isn't 6-13 total.  He's just 0-7 from 2.

    I'm hoping that's what you did, in which case its just a little mistake.  Otherwise I have no clue how you'd think Ithaca is shooting near 3 shots a minute.


    And as for what I base the fact that teams that shoot a lot of three don't have putback attempts.  Common sense dictates that a team shooting three's has more long rebounds than short ones, because that is how the ball bounces.  If you ever watch a basketball game you see that a 3 point attempt 5 out of 10 times (3 go in, 2 short rebounds) followed by a long rebound to the side opposite of where the shot came from.  Long rebounds don't produced "putbacks", they produce an extra possession. 


    I understand your zeal for Ithaca but these are Ithaca people saying that's too many three's, and they are 100% correct.  It isn't based on cliches, but on watching the game of basketball, watching the teams that consistently succeed, and seeing what they do.  None of them use half of their total shots on 3 pointers.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on November 23, 2009, 01:31:03 PM
    Ithaca is 27-95 from 3-pt range: 28.4 %
    Ithaca is 55-97 on 2-pt FG's: 56.7%

    Cyclone, good analysis. Also not included in that calculus is what long rebounds many times lead to: fast-breaks the other way. Fewer 2-pt FG's leads to fewer FT's and, by extension, less foul trouble for opponents. I'm not saying that Ithaca should completely rein it in and shoot only ten 3's per game, but they have players in Cruz, Marcus and Rossi who are good enough athletes to consistently get to the rack for higher percentage shots and/or get fouled. They will be a better team if they get better shot selection. I'd like to see that number settle somewhere around 20 attempts per game. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jdex on November 23, 2009, 02:41:44 PM

    Buffalo State Simmons unrelated, except they apparently can play quite well. Both from Rochester. Norm soph, Jake frosh in BS backcourt. Both excelled in Bengals' opening tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on November 23, 2009, 04:17:06 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on November 23, 2009, 12:54:49 PM
    Ohhh, I see what you did now.


    Umm, when reading a box score, above Field Goal Attempts and Makes it says "Total".  So when doing averages, you don't add that column to the 3 point attempts and makes.  That is factored into the total.  Someone who is 3-10 from the field and 3-3 from 3 isn't 6-13 total.  He's just 0-7 from 2.

    Wait.  Are you sure?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 23, 2009, 08:28:44 PM
    Should be interesting to see how Fisher comes back after the long layoff from game 1 to game 2. After they played well on the road, so we will see how they look at home against a very good Brockport team. I am excited to see what they can do.

    I'll take Fisher by 5-10. Something like 75-68. Hopefully we can see more of the freshman and newcomers tomorrow. I am going to the Cuse game tomorrow, so I can't make it to the game. Anyone else going?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 24, 2009, 08:54:14 AM
    Wish I was going to the cuse game...cornell is good and has the shooters and experience to hang around. They've almost beaten them a couple of times the past few years with the same core of players and wouldn't be surprised if they finally got them this year. Not sure who I want to win yet.

    Ithaca is home against Oneonta (2-0) tonight in what I expect to be a tough game.  Oneonta returns a lot from a team that had IC by 6 with under 2 to go before losing in ot last year.  Beckford is long, athletic and IC needs to keep him off the glass.  Hopefully IC can go into a short break on a good note with a solid 3-1 record before taking on the other sunyac Red Dragons next week (seriously, can't have two schools in the same conference with the same nickname- that's pathetic...cortland/oneonta figure it out!)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 24, 2009, 11:58:28 AM
    Having known the past Amherst teams and program very well, Even though they lost a lot, there reserves are better than most e8 teams.  I am assuming Ithaca had to put up a lot of 3 and take the risk of being on fire in order for the game not to be out of hand.  I doubt ithaca had an option to through it inside against amherts bigs.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 24, 2009, 01:21:28 PM
    Magicman, sorry I took so long to respond to your analysis on the Tigers. Great Job by the way. You covered it all. I don't get up there enough to get a handle, try to get to Stevens as much as I can to see the E-8..Korinichak being out hurts.... I get the impression we are a little aimless out there. You guys know I believe you need a floor general, someone to hold it together... I don't think we have that. Carson did that for us, even though it usually comes from the guard spot. Lowe and Anderson 1-10 and only 2 foul shots, means no penetration....... Young with 37 scares me, I like the scoring to be spread out.. 9x13 from  3's.......This team doesn't have a personality yet, and again I am scared.... I want a solid day in day out point, and I would like at least 3 in double figures scoring consistantly... doesn't have to be the same 3, actually better if it isn't.....Again probably too early to make judgements, but I am truly worried about this team. Very possible we don't finish in top 4........ ;)
     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 24, 2009, 01:37:22 PM
    Oh yea, almost forgot, I saw Stevens Sunday........Hey talk about the scoring being spread out, 4 of the 5 starters in double figures, and Masone the 5th man with 8. My guy Greco spreading it out, he had 17 assists in the two games in tip off classic, and scored 16 and 13 respectively.  A little McAdamsesque in that he had a lot of assists but also turned it over a bit.  He has that hard nose attitude and not afraid to pull the trigger on passes... sometimes it's good sometimes bad. BUT better than last year.....at least someone is taking control on the court.  Higgans is unconscious, I believe he was something like 16-17 from the field in the two games, don't hold me to it, but close enough. Cutri is hitting shots and Simon is making free throws and scoring inside. BUT CYCLONE is correct, they have to figure out how to defend inside... That could be their waterloo. Bottom line, this team as compared to last year, seems happier and is taking on a personality. Last year it was look for Grey to the hole, and Passalaqua shooting, no one else involved.... Hurley seems to be loosening the reins a little on the deliberate play and letting them create, which I think they do best. The two freshman, Jones and Thompson, nice off the bench... some freshman mistakes , but could learn a lot from the seniors this year, and also contribute this year.  Now I know the teams they beat could be very suspect, but this has to help the chemistry. OH what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 24, 2009, 03:05:16 PM
    In other totally unrelated news, Ithaca has a new assistant on the bench as of last week when 2009 grad Peter Freidland joined the squad.  Peter brings a wealth of knowledge to the team including how to master old man post moves, how to become the d3 equivalent of Arvydas Sabonis, and mastering the art of chest shaving.

    Look for the young Bomber freshman to take great strides in these areas in the future.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mrhoopfan on November 24, 2009, 04:53:47 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 24, 2009, 01:21:28 PM
    Magicman, sorry I took so long to respond to your analysis on the Tigers. Great Job by the way. You covered it all. I don't get up there enough to get a handle, try to get to Stevens as much as I can to see the E-8..Korinichak being out hurts.... I get the impression we are a little aimless out there. You guys know I believe you need a floor general, someone to hold it together... I don't think we have that. Carson did that for us, even though it usually comes from the guard spot. Lowe and Anderson 1-10 and only 2 foul shots, means no penetration....... Young with 37 scares me, I like the scoring to be spread out.. 9x13 from  3's.......This team doesn't have a personality yet, and again I am scared.... I want a solid day in day out point, and I would like at least 3 in double figures scoring consistantly... doesn't have to be the same 3, actually better if it isn't.....Again probably too early to make judgements, but I am truly worried about this team. Very possible we don't finish in top 4........ ;)
     
    Don't worry, Tigers will be a second semester squad. They don't have an identity yet with carson having graduated. They are also running some new things offensively. Terry will be a beast and Harder gets better by the game. Korinchak returning will give them a boost in the leadership and energy categories. The Tigers could've easily won both games

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: muletrain on November 24, 2009, 09:26:20 PM
    Looks like Assistant coach Mahanna has the Fisher offense in mid-season form. Empire 8 defenses beware.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 24, 2009, 10:06:19 PM
    Ithaca loses a tight one to visiting Oneonta State 85-83. Red Dragons move to 3-0 and next host Potsdam St on Dec 4th.

    Bombers fall to 2-2. Host the other Red Dragons on Dec. 1st in what should prove to be another tight ballgame.

    From jdex post on the SUNYAC board minutes ago:

    Yeah, Oneonta trailing 81-71 with 3:56 left!! Wins on T. Talbot hoop at 0:04. Talbot (18 pts), B. Beckford (22 pts), M. Grimes (16 pts) pace comeback. Talbot gives RDragons 83-82 edge at 0:29. IC's J. Marcus (20 pts) knots it on ft at 0:28. IC by 41-38 at half. Bombers C. Cruz-Rivas has 18 pts, three others with 10.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 24, 2009, 10:09:57 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 24, 2009, 03:05:16 PM
    In other totally unrelated news, Ithaca has a new assistant on the bench as of last week when 2009 grad Peter Freidland joined the squad.  Peter brings a wealth of knowledge to the team including how to master old man post moves, how to become the d3 equivalent of Arvydas Sabonis, and mastering the art of chest shaving.

    Look for the young Bomber freshman to take great strides in these areas in the future.

    A post deserving of +k for an Arvydas Sabonis reference. Impressive.

    Was anyone at the Fisher game that give a report of how it looked. Looks like Fisher pulled away in the 2nd half with some hot shooting and some defense (?). It is always a big win for Fisher when they can beat Brockport, so I am happy to see them at 2-0. I am really interested to see what they do against Hobart, since we have already seen what IC did to them.



    For anyone who cares, I was at the Cuse game tonight against Cornell and Syracuse looks like a really good team. Solid guard play and Wes Johnson is a freak.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on November 24, 2009, 11:12:49 PM
    Tough way for my Bombers to go into Thanksgiving losing in the last few seconds. Ithaca has always had a tough battle with Oneonta. Missed the game live but looking at the box score it seems pretty simple. They couldn't keep Beckford or the other Red Dragons off the glass, lost the rebound battle 41-28. I know Coach Mullins is not happy with that. Both teams shot free throws poorly but looking at the play by play (not sure if it is accurate yet) my Bombers went 2-7 down the stretch which is not acceptable. You would think I was back at the line with a FT percentage around 50 and missing them that late in a close game. Ithaca did shot the long ball well at 43.5% for the game but it wasn't enough to carry them for the full forty.

    Quote from: bomber3 on November 24, 2009, 03:05:16 PM
    In other totally unrelated news, Ithaca has a new assistant on the bench as of last week when 2009 grad Peter Freidland joined the squad.  Peter brings a wealth of knowledge to the team including how to master old man post moves, how to become the d3 equivalent of Arvydas Sabonis, and mastering the art of chest shaving.

    Look for the young Bomber freshman to take great strides in these areas in the future.

    Bomber3 great post. Pete is a great guy and very knowledgeable. He was a tough guy to guard in the post being so crafty. He will also bring a lot to the team in practice working with the team. He may also teach the younger players to master the rubiks cube.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 25, 2009, 09:58:45 AM
    Quote from: bombersquadron on November 24, 2009, 11:12:49 PM
    Tough way for my Bombers to go into Thanksgiving losing in the last few seconds. Ithaca has always had a tough battle with Oneonta. Missed the game live but looking at the box score it seems pretty simple. They couldn't keep Beckford or the other Red Dragons off the glass, lost the rebound battle 41-28. I know Coach Mullins is not happy with that. Both teams shot free throws poorly but looking at the play by play (not sure if it is accurate yet) my Bombers went 2-7 down the stretch which is not acceptable. You would think I was back at the line with a FT percentage around 50 and missing them that late in a close game. Ithaca did shot the long ball well at 43.5% for the game but it wasn't enough to carry them for the full forty.

    Quote from: bomber3 on November 24, 2009, 03:05:16 PM
    In other totally unrelated news, Ithaca has a new assistant on the bench as of last week when 2009 grad Peter Freidland joined the squad.  Peter brings a wealth of knowledge to the team including how to master old man post moves, how to become the d3 equivalent of Arvydas Sabonis, and mastering the art of chest shaving.

    Look for the young Bomber freshman to take great strides in these areas in the future.

    Bomber3 great post. Pete is a great guy and very knowledgeable. He was a tough guy to guard in the post being so crafty. He will also bring a lot to the team in practice working with the team. He may also teach the younger players to master the rubiks cube.




    Yes, rebounds were the deciding factor.  Oneonta had more offensive rebounds (20) than Ithaca had defensively (19).  Also Oneonta had a staggering 32 second chance points if the box score is correct.  They have to tighten that up if they're going to be successful. 

    Definitely a tough way to lose....especially up 10 with under four to play.  Unfortunately Oneonta got a little payback for Ithaca stealing one last year.  Beckford almost gave the Bombers a SECOND victory in two years by picking up a bonehead technical with under 30 seconds to play up one.  Last year he missed the go ahead free throw with under a second to win the game.  Hopefully the bombers bounce back against a tough Cortland squad that will pound the glass with Oliver and Miller (I believe those are the bigs names).

    Bombsquad - major oversight on the rubik's cube...thanks for picking up the slack!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on November 25, 2009, 10:04:57 AM
    Quote from: JQV on November 23, 2009, 04:17:06 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on November 23, 2009, 12:54:49 PM
    Ohhh, I see what you did now.


    Umm, when reading a box score, above Field Goal Attempts and Makes it says "Total".  So when doing averages, you don't add that column to the 3 point attempts and makes.  That is factored into the total.  Someone who is 3-10 from the field and 3-3 from 3 isn't 6-13 total.  He's just 0-7 from 2.

    Wait.  Are you sure?

    Yeah, he's right. I guess they want to make box scores more compact, but it seems like they should have stats for 2-pt FGs, 3-pt FGs and total FGs. It can be confusing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 25, 2009, 10:08:12 AM
    Also, who would have guessed this two weeks into the season:

    Alfred, Utica, Stevens, and Hartwick (all picked in the bottom 5 of the league) a combined 12-4

    Ithaca, RIT, and Naz (all picked in the top 4) a combined 4-6

    I'm sure there are some cupcakes mixed in to prop up the first group but its worth noting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on November 25, 2009, 10:43:57 AM
    I didn't have a chance to see the Fisher game but it looked to be a great win for Fisher as Bport was 3-0 with wins over st. lawerence and tufts.  Gettings seemed to be coming into his own with 18 and the rest of the scoring was its usual balance from fisher teams.  Getting these good out of conf. wins is a great sign considering the e8 is weak with no real contenders at this point with RIT with a loss and ithaca with 2 losses.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 25, 2009, 12:52:42 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 25, 2009, 09:58:45 AM
    Hopefully the bombers bounce back against a tough Cortland squad that will pound the glass with Oliver and Miller (I believe those are the bigs names).



    bomber3,
    Mike Lewis is the leading rebounder for Cortland St. Averages 9.0 per game. Paul Oliver is the other big man grabbing 7.3 boards a game. Both of them are pretty active on the offensive glass as well.  No one by the name of Miller on the team. Red Dragons looking to atone for last year's 80-56 drubbing by the Bombers. Should be much closer this time around.  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 25, 2009, 01:53:18 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 25, 2009, 12:52:42 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 25, 2009, 09:58:45 AM
    Hopefully the bombers bounce back against a tough Cortland squad that will pound the glass with Oliver and Miller (I believe those are the bigs names).



    bomber3,
    Mike Lewis is the leading rebounder for Cortland St. Averages 9.0 per game. Paul Oliver is the other big man grabbing 7.3 boards a game. Both of them are pretty active on the offensive glass as well.  No one by the name of Miller on the team. Red Dragons looking to atone for last year's 80-56 drubbing by the Bombers. Should be much closer this time around.  

    Thanks magic...I knew one was definitely paul oliver but then thought of oliver miller...the washed up/overweight former nba player...but yes its definitely mike lewis.  Two pretty solid big men who ithaca needs to contain.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 25, 2009, 04:03:43 PM
    Any word out there on the new additions for Fisher so far this year? I see this Jordan Koch is getting a lot of time, and seems to be making an impact. So did the new big man for Fisher as well. I am just wondering how they look playing at the D3 level.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 30, 2009, 08:51:34 AM
    no chatter on here for quite a while- turkey hangover i guess.

    any talk about this weeks games?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 30, 2009, 07:31:12 PM
    I am interested to see how Fisher does against Hobart. IC had the better of them a few weeks ago, so it could be an interesting way to compare two of the better teams in the E8. I think Fisher will handle them. Maybe a 15-20 point win. I have been impressed with Fisher so far this year, even tho they have a very small sample size of games. Is there a reason they have only played two games while other teams have played as many as 5 or 6? Either way, two wins over teams that were in the sweet 16 last year is impressive. I know they are not the same teams this year, but Brockport was undefeated, and Carnegie Mellon was, if nothing else, athletic. I don't know if I can make it to the game tomorrow, but I will be watching online?

    Also interested to see how RIT plays against U of R. I have not seen them at all, but it appears that RIT has been underwhelming so far this year, while U of R is 5-0. Is U of R back to being a dominant team? I wonder who the best team in the Rochester area is this year?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 01, 2009, 09:00:19 AM
    cards- i agree-
    sample size is small and much is needed in terms of info
    but this will tell a little bit more about fisher
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 01, 2009, 01:52:14 PM
    Alum 91, your right, I am all Holiday'd out and Christmas is ahead.......

    I am worried about the Tigers... Does Korinichak mean that much... You know my theory about a solid point guard.... We play Rochester, Fisher and Stevens this week... this will tell a lot about this team.... After Rochester and Fisher, there could be a let down against the Ducks, who IF they can beat Alfred Saturday could be on a high starting out E-8 play. We should hold home court, but the Ducks may be improving game by game.... did anyone catch the Stevens FDU game... looks like Hurley loosened the reigns and is letting them play and create. Cyclone any read on that game???/ Greco 23, 9-13 from the field, I think I read.   Are any of these games being telecast??? I can't get to any......  ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 01, 2009, 07:19:35 PM
    Fisher having all sorts of trouble with this peoble (spelling?) guy from Hobart. They are up 4, but they are getting worked inside. None of the big men seem to be fouling him to make it tougher either.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 01, 2009, 08:24:57 PM
    Wow...apparently Hobart is a rediculously good team. Fisher is making look like it anyway. This has been really tough to watch.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 01, 2009, 08:50:43 PM
    Maybe my excitement for the Fisher team was a bit premature. Fisher looked really bad tonight and lost to Hobart by 7. The big guy for Hobart, Peobles, drops in 35. Just could not get the game close after a quick spurt by Hobart to start the 2nd half. Every time Fisher would get it down to 5 or 6, Fisher would give up a 3 or a few quick buckets inside. Better to lay an egg in this game than on Saturday against RIT.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 01, 2009, 10:35:58 PM
    great win for the bombers over an experienced cortland squad...really closed that rebounding gap that was present in the previous 2 losses (both teams have 34 bounds)

    a remarkable FOUR turnovers the entire game for IC vs 8 for cortland....in the offense ithaca runs that is impressive

    freshman andrei oztemel drops 14 points in 18 minutes and 71 of 76 ithaca points come from non-seniors....really shows how they reloaded and the freshman really seem to be stepping into their roles nicely

    for the record all you cortland fans.....IC has a 4 game win streak in basketball and a 3 game win streak in football (the only two sports i care about).....GO BOMBERS!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 03, 2009, 05:41:23 AM
    Nice win tonight by RIT handing the Rochester Yellowjackets their 1st loss of the season 63-58. Nate Korinchak and Shawn Roe lead the Tigers with 13 pts each. It marked the 1st game of the season for Korinchak who has been out with an injury and the Tigers early season struggles have reflected his absence. This is the 2nd season in a row that RIT has upset an unbeaten team and it was Korinchak's controversial 3 pt shot that toppled Ithaca from the undefeated ranks last year.

    Final score doesn't reflect how RIT controlled this game from the outset. Scott Young opened the scoring with a 3 pointer in the 1st minute of play and the Tigers were never headed. RIT was up 19-6 after 8 minutes of play and twice built the lead to 17 before the Yellowjackets closed within 9 at the break 33-24. Tigers re-established double digit lead quickly and were still up by 11 with 5:54 left to play. Yellowjackets chipped away and twice got it down to 3 but 2 free throws by Korinchak with 4 seconds left sealed the win.

    FROMAFAR will be happy as the guard play for the Tigers was the difference in the ballgame. Roe had 11 of his 13 pts in the 1st half, Korinchak scored 9 of his 13 pts in the 2nd half and Anthony Terry came off the bench and scored 12 pts in 13 minutes of playing time, with 10 coming after the break. The 3 guards shot 72.7%  from the field (16x22)  Brenden Harder continued his fine all around play with 9 pts, on 4x6 fg, 6 rebounds, and 2 blocks. The guy lives up to his name as he works HARDER than anybody on the floor. He gets the loose balls, keeps the ball alive on the boards, hustles up and down the court.

    U of R was led by Bill Serle with 13 pts and John DiBartolomeo had 10. Tigers as a team outshot the Yellowjackets 54.2% (26x48) to 35.3% (18x51) but Rochester enjoyed a big advantage at the charity stripe, 17x18, while RIT only had 8 trips to the line and made 6. Tigers even their record at 2-2, while Uof R falls to 5-1.    
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 03, 2009, 08:50:21 AM
    Great job Magic.... I have had a problem focusing in on these games... busy lately. I am trying to change that. I am thrilled about the guard play, and we are deep. The loss of Carson disturbed me, but it seems these guys have picked it up........ last year Carson got a touch every possession. A whole new offensive mindset this year. What worries me a bit is Rochester only committed, I believe 8-9 fouls the whole game. Looks like a soft night for the Tigers to play against, unless the refs were letting them play, BUT I can't see that especially at RIT.  NOW Fisher AT Fisher??????   The Lakers might have a hard time playing there.....it's like playing at the Palestra down in Philly.... Then back home against Stevens who seems to have found themselves... 4 in a row, getting good guard play as well. This weekend will be a good baramoter of things to come in the E-8, but what do I know ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 03, 2009, 11:30:53 AM
    FROMAFAR, the Ducks have been on a nice little roll lately, but Hurley hasn't really opened things up.  The streak has a product of good shooting and awful competition.  Don't get me wrong, the Ducks have played well, but I saw all the games during the win streak except the 2nd tournament game, and FDU and USMMA (King's Point) are both bad teams.

    You will be happy to know that Greco/Hurley must be reading these boards because he has become a lot more aggressive on the offensive end.  Naturally, the Ducks are winning and he is playing 30+ minutes.  His assist numbers are still low for a point guard, but given the make up of that team he needs to continue to focus on being aggressive.  Given the structure of their offense other guys will get there shots.


    Defensively the Ducks haven't been bad.  They defended the 3 relatively well against King's Point (8-28, 27%...contested on probably 14 of the 20 misses).  Rebounding and post defense have still been issues, (gave up 21 offensive rebounds to King's Point last night..can't do that in conference play).


    All in all it has been a good run for the Ducks before the roll into conference play.  As long as Greco stays aggressive and the bigs do a serviceable job, the team should skate through non-conference pretty clean.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 03, 2009, 11:46:57 AM
    that is a big win for RIT....any win of UR is a big one no matter the state of their program -- also a big win for utica over hamilton last night

    if fisher didnt boot one against hobart i would say the E8 is hands down the best conference in the region but maybe they just had an off night

    conference play opens up this week and fisher/rit jump right into it -- big matchup for early conference supremacy -- i got fisher by 12

    ithaca home against hartwick --- this is a dangerous game for IC since they have been somewhat up and down thus far and hartwick has been better than expected - ic holds at least a 12 game win streak (as far as d3 hoops goes) and they should extend that streak -- ic by 9
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 03, 2009, 12:06:13 PM
    Bomber, don't put the kiss of death on your guys...IC should win, but as you guys know, I try to downplay my team.......... it never fails to come back and haunt you.

    Cyclone  gottcha.....One of my cronies, ( Stevens Alumn) says Ducks seem to have a clear sense of what they want to do this year...  Last year it was look for Passalaqua outside and Grey would just drive the hole... No point guard play and no other options. This team seems more lively, everyone involved and energy is evident... Greco seems to flourish with Thompson in the game.. two point guards make a matchup tough for opponents. Both can shoot, however Thomspon hasn't learned to penetrate and dish like Greco, yet. Greco is not afraid to make a tough pass or take a crucial shot, something they were missing last year. That's what I like about this kid...He is the much needed coach on the floor......... This weekend will tell a lot..... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 04, 2009, 07:34:17 AM
    Help me out gang, Jordan Gettings player of the week ??? ( I am assuming last week) in E-8............ He had a nice game but there has to be someone with more a more impressive showing.. Forget RIT or Stevens players since I am slanted that way, and not looking for juice, there had to be some bigger games out there.........No offense to Gettings..... Congrats Jordan ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 04, 2009, 09:52:55 AM
    Not really basketball related - but what does Jordan's tattoo say on his left shoulder??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 04, 2009, 01:15:40 PM
    My best guesses are below. The level of competition has varied, so I don't think we really know what most teams have at this point.

    Friday
    ITHACA over Hartwick, 79-69.
    Nazareth defeats ELMIRA, 68-64.

    Saturday
    Hartwick tops ELMIRA, 60-54.
    FISHER pulls away from RIT, 77-66.
    Stevens nips ALFRED, 66-65.

    Sunday
    RIT beats Stevens, 74-63.
    Utica knocks off NAZARETH, 78-71.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 04, 2009, 10:30:59 PM
    Bombers shoot the lights out in the first half, hitting 10 three pointers and win 96-81.

    Five Bombers hit double-figures, led by Cruz-Rivas with 25. Sean Rossi goes for 17 with 10 assists and Barera goes for 16 with 11 rebounds.

    Ithaca looks like a less-talented version of last year's squad and they're as prone as ever to growing cold from the outside, but they can still light it up. The defense remains poor, although Cruz managed to contain Blazek well until late in the game. This team will likely be 14-11 or something similar, but, they've got the ability to hang with most teams in the E8 from what I've seen

    This team is going to be very good next year, as almost every player of significance returns. The freshman PG Rossi is averaging 13.5 PPG and 8.3 APG. From what I hear, coaches think he's better than Burton was at that stage.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 05, 2009, 05:57:30 PM
    Fisher looked a lot better today on defense than a few days ago against Hobart. They still struggle at times to score, but it was more than enough today as RIT was stone cold from the floor. I think RIT had something like 15 points in the first half. Fisher played a little 2-3 zone today.

    Fisher was not overly impressive, but they did enough to get a win.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 05, 2009, 06:19:38 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 05, 2009, 05:57:30 PM
    Fisher looked a lot better today on defense than a few days ago against Hobart. They still struggle at times to score, but it was more than enough today as RIT was stone cold from the floor. I think RIT had something like 15 points in the first half. Fisher played a little 2-3 zone today.

    Fisher was not overly impressive, but they did enough to get a win.

    Surprised to see your post and find out Fisher won. The Scoreboard has them losing to RIT 60-46.

    FROMAFAR is going to see that score and jump for joy until he goes to the E8 page and learns the truth.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 05, 2009, 06:42:52 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 05, 2009, 06:19:38 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 05, 2009, 05:57:30 PM
    Fisher looked a lot better today on defense than a few days ago against Hobart. They still struggle at times to score, but it was more than enough today as RIT was stone cold from the floor. I think RIT had something like 15 points in the first half. Fisher played a little 2-3 zone today.

    Fisher was not overly impressive, but they did enough to get a win.

    Surprised to see your post and find out Fisher won. The Scoreboard has them losing to RIT 60-46.

    FROMAFAR is going to see that score and jump for joy until he goes to the E8 page and learns the truth.

    The E8 page has it as a Fisher victory.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 05, 2009, 07:02:25 PM
    Unless they switched Jerseys before the game, Fisher did beat RIT.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 05, 2009, 07:35:36 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 05, 2009, 06:42:52 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 05, 2009, 06:19:38 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 05, 2009, 05:57:30 PM
    Fisher looked a lot better today on defense than a few days ago against Hobart. They still struggle at times to score, but it was more than enough today as RIT was stone cold from the floor. I think RIT had something like 15 points in the first half. Fisher played a little 2-3 zone today.

    Fisher was not overly impressive, but they did enough to get a win.



    Surprised to see your post and find out Fisher won. The Scoreboard has them losing to RIT 60-46.

    FROMAFAR is going to see that score and jump for joy until he goes to the E8 page and learns the truth.

    The E8 page has it as a Fisher victory.

    I saw that around 6:30 only on the Fisher website, and then e-mailed the Guru. It's been changed.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on December 06, 2009, 12:38:28 AM
    HAHAHAHA....Fisher smacked RIT today. Ignore any previous posts saying otherwise. The score did not do the game justice. Fisher took the lead early in the first and was never threatened afterwards. They are an extremely well-coached team and have a lot of promising youngsters. They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8. Asst. coach Mahanna is surely someone to keep on your radars. Truly a rising star. RIT gave a good effort and I would not be surprised to see them upset a team in the future. Once the younger Cardinals relax and start finishing around the hoop and the team as a whole guards the three slightly better, its all over.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 06, 2009, 11:04:34 AM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 06, 2009, 12:38:28 AM
    HAHAHAHA....Fisher smacked RIT today. Ignore any previous posts saying otherwise. The score did not do the game justice. Fisher took the lead early in the first and was never threatened afterwards. They are an extremely well-coached team and have a lot of promising youngsters. They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8. Asst. coach Mahanna is surely someone to keep on your radars. Truly a rising star. RIT gave a good effort and I would not be surprised to see them upset a team in the future. Once the younger Cardinals relax and start finishing around the hoop and the team as a whole guards the three slightly better, its all over.

    I agree that they are very well coached, and that they looked good today, especially on D. However, Anytime you hold a team to 16 points in the first half, and are only up by 9 or 10 you have some work to do. RIT is not the best defensive team in the world, and Fisher only scored 60.
    I agree that if Fisher's younger players can get going they could be really good. Norsen looks like he could be the real deal, but he will have to work on his defense a bit. Koch looks great so far. It is a growing process early, but if Wopperer and Newman give them positive performances every night, they should be pretty good as the season goes on.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 06, 2009, 03:06:50 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 06, 2009, 12:38:28 AM
    HAHAHAHA....Fisher smacked RIT today. Ignore any previous posts saying otherwise. The score did not do the game justice. Fisher took the lead early in the first and was never threatened afterwards. They are an extremely well-coached team and have a lot of promising youngsters. They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8. Asst. coach Mahanna is surely someone to keep on your radars. Truly a rising star. RIT gave a good effort and I would not be surprised to see them upset a team in the future. Once the younger Cardinals relax and start finishing around the hoop and the team as a whole guards the three slightly better, its all over.

    Just curious, why do you say that about Coach Mahanna??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 06, 2009, 03:33:07 PM
    RIT falls to visiting Stevens 69-62.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 06, 2009, 04:39:15 PM
    Back and forth 1st half with largest lead by either team at 35-30 RIT with 2:33 left. Stevens ends half with 3 straight buckets to go into the break 36-35. Both teams struggle out of 2nd half gate until 3 straight baskets give RIT their largest lead of the game at 44-38 with 15:13 remaining. 9-2 Ducks run regains the lead at 47-46 but Marcus Lowe jumper puts Tigers back in front with 12:00 to go. Both teams go cold over tne next 4 minutes until Duck's Mike Cutri hits a 3 for a 50-48 lead at 8:03. 8 lead changes and 4 ties over the next 5:30 and with the Duck's up 1 at 60-59 Cutri hits another big 3 with 1:37 left. With 24 seconds left Cutri steals the ball, is fouled, makes 1 of 2 free throws, steals the ball again and takes it in for a layup to extend lead to 7. Cutri with 17 pts leads the Ducks, followed by Greco with 15 and Simon Smith with 12. Stevens shot 50%from the field 24x48 and 7x14 from behind the arc. They were 14x24 from the line. RIT's Scott Young with 13 pts and 6 boards was the only Tiger in double figures. Tigers shot 25x47 from the field (53%) and 7x13 from 3 point land (53.8%). Tigers out rebounded the Ducks 28-23 but only went to the charity stripe 6 times making 5.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 06, 2009, 06:43:49 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 06, 2009, 12:38:28 AM
    HAHAHAHA....Fisher smacked RIT today. Ignore any previous posts saying otherwise. The score did not do the game justice. Fisher took the lead early in the first and was never threatened afterwards. They are an extremely well-coached team and have a lot of promising youngsters. They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8. Asst. coach Mahanna is surely someone to keep on your radars. Truly a rising star. RIT gave a good effort and I would not be surprised to see them upset a team in the future. Once the younger Cardinals relax and start finishing around the hoop and the team as a whole guards the three slightly better, its all over.

    Fisher may be the best team in the E8, but a 90-83 loss at home to Hobart, a team who two other E8 teams knocked off, is enough to make one "question" whether they are "the class" of the E8. Tone down the hyperbole a bit and people may take you more seriously.

    Surprising result: Naz hammers Utica, 66-50. Somewhat shocked by that one.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 06, 2009, 07:50:31 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 06, 2009, 06:43:49 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 06, 2009, 12:38:28 AM
    HAHAHAHA....Fisher smacked RIT today. Ignore any previous posts saying otherwise. The score did not do the game justice. Fisher took the lead early in the first and was never threatened afterwards. They are an extremely well-coached team and have a lot of promising youngsters. They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8. Asst. coach Mahanna is surely someone to keep on your radars. Truly a rising star. RIT gave a good effort and I would not be surprised to see them upset a team in the future. Once the younger Cardinals relax and start finishing around the hoop and the team as a whole guards the three slightly better, its all over.

    Fisher may be the best team in the E8, but a 90-83 loss at home to Hobart, a team who two other E8 teams knocked off, is enough to make one "question" whether they are "the class" of the E8. Tone down the hyperbole a bit and people may take you more seriously.

    Surprising result: Naz hammers Utica, 66-50. Somewhat shocked by that one.

    Gobombers....i'm with you regarding fisher... they beat a disappointing RIT team that was picked to finsh 2nd in the league but will  be lucky to make the E8 conference tournament in my opinion.  RIT is 2-4 overall with 2 league losses.  At this point I have Fisher, Ithaca, Stevens, Utica, Nazareth, and Hartwick better than them.  I wouldn't go crowning Fisher as the class of the league because they beat a struggling team at home by 14.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 07, 2009, 12:41:59 PM
    Gobombers im with you on your comments to Fisherman.  Fisher in my opinion does have the best talent, the most experience, and are the team to beat in the league.  However, to say class of the league is a little overboard considering they did have a let down to Hobart.  This won't be the only let down Fisher has, I don't think they have the leadership or mental strength as a team to have consistent great play as in prior fisher teams.  They should win the league and have a great record, possibly finish top of the region, however, the region is down vs past years. 

    Bomber 3, you think they will be lucky to make the e8 tournament? I don't think that is a very good opinion as fisher was picked by the coaches to finish first, not sure how that translates? RIT has a number of losses but has beat UofR which is a good win.  In addition, Fisher vs RIT is a league game which is usually a battle as the teams are so familiar with each other. 

    All in all, it is too early to tell whos good and whos not.  Ithaca had some good wins then some bad losses.  The game vs Amherst clearly demonstrated Ithaca is not going to have much of a run in the NCAA tournament this year, however, this is expected as they lost good seniors.  I do think Ithaca will finish top 4 in the league if not 2nd behind Fisher.  I wouldn't count out Utica they are always tough and always get in new players. 

    RIT will come around during the 2nd semester as they usually play good defense and are very physical. Hartwick always starts the season off good 6-0 i think the past 3 yrs so I wouldnt put to much emphasis on their early season wins.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 07, 2009, 12:46:15 PM
    I haven't been "DUCKING" you guys, just first chance I have to hit the boards.  The good news I knew RIT lost from the beginning.  Why?  now the bad news, I was there. Even worse news at both games..........  I took the opportunity to go up and visit, and take in both games.....Ok here's my read on the Tigers. Our bigs can shoot, good news,... bad news we don't get inside that's why we don't shoot foul shots. Even with Korinchak, we don't have a point guard....Too many guys coming in and out, no fluidity. It looks like each guy coming in is auditioning for the job... Horrible way to play the game....Coach has to establish a shorter rotation and we need a leader on the court... I know your all probably sick of hearing me say that, but to me very importtant.  

    Fisher game..... I didn't go in expecting a win, but we were horrific.....Our strength, I think, is shooting. We didn't shoot well... as a matter of fact horribly... I think 18% in the first half...... Some teams shoot better than that blindfolded....maybe that would of been a good strategy, put blindfolds on us. I give Fisher credit, they played tough D and did what they had to do win.. Although I don't consider us a great defense team, and Fisher didn't score much either.  don't annoint them yet..........especially based on that game.

    Stevens game.... I wanted to see how we came out after the loss, and I was happy to see we were aggressive and we were shooting well... We shot well the whole game, How does a team shoot 53% for the field,  54% from 3's and out rebound the other team and lose....Simple, too many turnovers. This Stevens team would not go away... they answered every "punch". This kid Cutri hit a few 3's but 2 of them were with someone in his face and one at a real crucial time... They look so much looser than last year, not looking over their shoulders and worried about being taken out.... Also, not just looking for 2 guys........Of course Greco impressed me in a lot of ways. He came out of the game about 6 minutes in holding his stomach... looked like he was going to get sick..... Came back a couple minutes later clearly under the weather but gutted out a 9 point first half....He hit critical foul shots in the second half, as well as moving the ball, helping keep the Ducks in the game...... Smith is very good around the hole as well, not so good from the line.  Masone is a force defensively. I jus think the Tigers are in huge trouble unless we establish a smaller rotation. While our shooting percentage was good, We had to work for every shot, a couple of shot clock violations...... Young got into foul trouble and Harder disappeared in the second half.    I Dunno, we are in a deep hole, and need to get better quickly.........IC and Naz will be right there, as will Stevens... Utica could be around and of Course Fisher....  I still think Alfred and Hartwick will have something to say as far as knocking any one of the above off.......But we have to hold our home court and pick off Naz, IC, Stevens or Utica in their house. and the final bad news, I am tired of driving, but what do I know ;)    


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 07, 2009, 12:51:53 PM
    Fisher, I think Gobombers was stating RIT will be lucky to make the E-8......Unfortunaley at this point I agree......... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 07, 2009, 01:03:29 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on December 07, 2009, 12:51:53 PM
    Fisher, I think Gobombers was stating RIT will be lucky to make the E-8......Unfortunaley at this point I agree......... ;)

    That was my take as well.  That RIT, not Fisher, was questionable to make the E-8 tournament.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 07, 2009, 02:00:44 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on December 07, 2009, 12:51:53 PM
    Fisher, I think Gobombers was stating RIT will be lucky to make the E-8......Unfortunaley at this point I agree......... ;)

    Gobombers wasn't saying anything. That was Bombers3 who said RIT may miss the E8 Tourney. Keep us straight.  :P
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 07, 2009, 02:03:21 PM
    and it wasn't gobambers it was Bombers 3............. I just qualified to get into the RIT rotation..........confused.... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 07, 2009, 02:07:02 PM
    all i can think of is the coach green losing his mind after losing to chicago a few years

    *you want to crown them, crown their ass, they were who we thought they were*
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 07, 2009, 02:13:54 PM
    91   PERFECT.............. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 07, 2009, 02:14:03 PM
    Yes, I definitely was referring to RIT. I know its early but RIT doesn't seem to be putting the pieces together just yet.  They should bounce back because they have a lot of experience and one of the better players in the league in Scott Young. Despite that, I see them battling Utica, Stevens, and Hartwick for the final spot in the conference tournament (I think Fisher, Ithaca, and Naz should have 10+ wins and be the other three teams in).   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 07, 2009, 02:20:27 PM
    Thats what I get for reading posts when I am at work :-*. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 07, 2009, 02:28:33 PM
    That hobart loss may have been a kick in the butt that fisher needed.
    there is nothing wrong with a non conf loss that makes you focus
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Go Naz on December 07, 2009, 03:01:57 PM
    Naz looking very tough yesterday against Utica.  One of the best defensive games Naz has played in the past 5 years.  Its rare that Naz and defense are mentioned in the same sentence but they really got after Utica yesterday.  Tyshaun Stephens is playing as well as you could ask for a freshmen right now.  He looks like Rayvon Hidgon with a jumpshot.  My only concern is that the team now goes on a 3 week break for finals and then the holidays.  I just hope they can stay focused and in shape.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on December 07, 2009, 11:27:27 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on December 06, 2009, 03:06:50 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 06, 2009, 12:38:28 AM
    HAHAHAHA....Fisher smacked RIT today. Ignore any previous posts saying otherwise. The score did not do the game justice. Fisher took the lead early in the first and was never threatened afterwards. They are an extremely well-coached team and have a lot of promising youngsters. They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8. Asst. coach Mahanna is surely someone to keep on your radars. Truly a rising star. RIT gave a good effort and I would not be surprised to see them upset a team in the future. Once the younger Cardinals relax and start finishing around the hoop and the team as a whole guards the three slightly better, its all over.

    Just curious, why do you say that about Coach Mahanna??


    First off, I certainly did not mean any disrespect to Coach Kornaker. His resume speaks for itself. Five E8 titles in the last seven years and a .778 winning percentage certainly says it all. Asst. coach Mahanna is entering his second season under Kornaker and has made a name for himself on the recruting trail among other coaches. The freshmen class, brought in by Kornaker and Mahannna, has created a bit of a stir in the E8 and surely will play a significant role in numerous league titles in the future for the Cardinals. The freshmen haven't seen much action yet but have showed flashes. Francis and Evans, in partiular, look like studs. I have also heard (from a few reliable people who would know) that Asst. coach Mahanna has been pivotal in the individual skill development of the returning players, Gettings and Henderson especially. If he's not a head coach within the next four or five years I will eat my hat.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on December 07, 2009, 11:37:09 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on December 06, 2009, 07:50:31 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 06, 2009, 06:43:49 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 06, 2009, 12:38:28 AM
    HAHAHAHA....Fisher smacked RIT today. Ignore any previous posts saying otherwise. The score did not do the game justice. Fisher took the lead early in the first and was never threatened afterwards. They are an extremely well-coached team and have a lot of promising youngsters. They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8. Asst. coach Mahanna is surely someone to keep on your radars. Truly a rising star. RIT gave a good effort and I would not be surprised to see them upset a team in the future. Once the younger Cardinals relax and start finishing around the hoop and the team as a whole guards the three slightly better, its all over.

    Fisher may be the best team in the E8, but a 90-83 loss at home to Hobart, a team who two other E8 teams knocked off, is enough to make one "question" whether they are "the class" of the E8. Tone down the hyperbole a bit and people may take you more seriously.

    Surprising result: Naz hammers Utica, 66-50. Somewhat shocked by that one.

    Gobombers....i'm with you regarding fisher... they beat a disappointing RIT team that was picked to finsh 2nd in the league but will  be lucky to make the E8 conference tournament in my opinion.  RIT is 2-4 overall with 2 league losses.  At this point I have Fisher, Ithaca, Stevens, Utica, Nazareth, and Hartwick better than them.  I wouldn't go crowning Fisher as the class of the league because they beat a struggling team at home by 14.



    Wow, I never expected such a negative reaction, especially from the Cardinal fans. "They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8" is what I said and I'm sticking to it. Check with me half-way through the season and we'll see if I'm wrong. I'm a loyal Fisher soldier that is confident that we are going to step-up to the challenege and deliver another E8 title. Fisher fans should not be afraid to tell it like it is, we have dominated the E8 for the last 15 years and will continuue to do so.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Razor on December 08, 2009, 12:04:31 AM
    Sounds like Assistant Coach Mahanna is doing a little self-promotion or has hired a friend to do so lol.  Fisher has had lots of great assistant coaches over the years--Coach Sullivan, Coach Hepler, etc. and I haven't heard any glowing evaluations of Coach Mahanna from other coaches in the Rochester area.  You can talk about the development of certain players but what about the lack of growth in such players as Franklin and Cornett.  Franklin in particular is the most athletic player on their roster and came in with a tremendous amount of upside 2 years ago.  Now he's not even in the starting lineup??  If we're talking about great coaching...lets talk about the production that Coach Broderick is getting out of his first year team across the street at Naz.  Tyshaun Stephens isn't playing like a freshman, Cory McAddam is taking care of the ball, their playing great team Defense, and their doing it with a rotation of maybe 6 or 7 guys after losing Dehimer, Ryan McAddam, and Rayvon Higdon from last years team.  I'm not a Naz fan but that's impressive!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 08, 2009, 10:47:54 AM
    So I was just taking a look at the bball boards because it's been a while since I've closely followed Fisher basketball and what do I find?  Apparently I made the first post after the D3boards migrated over to the current site and it says that I am the creator of the E8 thread...Basically I feel like a mini celebrity.  If anybody cares for an autograph feel free to email me at Boobyhas@game.yo and I'll send one out to you asap. 

    How have things changed in the E8 over the past few years?  Fisher and RIT still towards the top?  Naz still trying to act like they can compete against Fisher but don't realize that we just laugh at them from across the street?  Hartwick still hanging out at the bottom?  Somebody fill me in!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 08, 2009, 11:31:22 AM
    good to see ya on boob
    looks like same  ole- you left out the enigma that is IC

    oh and speaking of IC- an IC alum- Emma Wright is on wktv on the weekend
    eeek---face for radio
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 08, 2009, 12:42:59 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 07, 2009, 11:37:09 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on December 06, 2009, 07:50:31 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 06, 2009, 06:43:49 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 06, 2009, 12:38:28 AM
    HAHAHAHA....Fisher smacked RIT today. Ignore any previous posts saying otherwise. The score did not do the game justice. Fisher took the lead early in the first and was never threatened afterwards. They are an extremely well-coached team and have a lot of promising youngsters. They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8. Asst. coach Mahanna is surely someone to keep on your radars. Truly a rising star. RIT gave a good effort and I would not be surprised to see them upset a team in the future. Once the younger Cardinals relax and start finishing around the hoop and the team as a whole guards the three slightly better, its all over.

    Fisher may be the best team in the E8, but a 90-83 loss at home to Hobart, a team who two other E8 teams knocked off, is enough to make one "question" whether they are "the class" of the E8. Tone down the hyperbole a bit and people may take you more seriously.

    Surprising result: Naz hammers Utica, 66-50. Somewhat shocked by that one.

    Gobombers....i'm with you regarding fisher... they beat a disappointing RIT team that was picked to finsh 2nd in the league but will  be lucky to make the E8 conference tournament in my opinion.  RIT is 2-4 overall with 2 league losses.  At this point I have Fisher, Ithaca, Stevens, Utica, Nazareth, and Hartwick better than them.  I wouldn't go crowning Fisher as the class of the league because they beat a struggling team at home by 14.



    Wow, I never expected such a negative reaction, especially from the Cardinal fans. "They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8" is what I said and I'm sticking to it. Check with me half-way through the season and we'll see if I'm wrong. I'm a loyal Fisher soldier that is confident that we are going to step-up to the challenege and deliver another E8 title. Fisher fans should not be afraid to tell it like it is, we have dominated the E8 for the last 15 years and will continuue to do so.

    I don't think Fisher fans have ever been afraid to say when they think their team is the best. I just think the posters that have been on this board for awhile see that this team, while talented and experienced, is not as good as some of the Fisher teams in the past that were clearly the class of the E8. At this point I think most people have Fisher is the horse with the inside track to win the league, but we can also see it going badly enough where they finish 2nd or 3rd.

    I hope you are right, but lets have them play Ithaca and Stevens before they are anointed as the best team in the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 08, 2009, 12:47:12 PM
    perfectly put sjfcards.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 08, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
    "ther are who we thought they were"

    ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on December 08, 2009, 01:11:37 PM
    Thanks, fisherman, for the response on Mahanna. He is still young and has plenty of time to grow as a coach.

    And what's up with Brandon Witte? Why isn't he getting any PT???

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 08, 2009, 01:19:15 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 07, 2009, 11:37:09 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on December 06, 2009, 07:50:31 PM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 06, 2009, 06:43:49 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 06, 2009, 12:38:28 AM
    HAHAHAHA....Fisher smacked RIT today. Ignore any previous posts saying otherwise. The score did not do the game justice. Fisher took the lead early in the first and was never threatened afterwards. They are an extremely well-coached team and have a lot of promising youngsters. They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8. Asst. coach Mahanna is surely someone to keep on your radars. Truly a rising star. RIT gave a good effort and I would not be surprised to see them upset a team in the future. Once the younger Cardinals relax and start finishing around the hoop and the team as a whole guards the three slightly better, its all over.

    Fisher may be the best team in the E8, but a 90-83 loss at home to Hobart, a team who two other E8 teams knocked off, is enough to make one "question" whether they are "the class" of the E8. Tone down the hyperbole a bit and people may take you more seriously.

    Surprising result: Naz hammers Utica, 66-50. Somewhat shocked by that one.

    Gobombers....i'm with you regarding fisher... they beat a disappointing RIT team that was picked to finsh 2nd in the league but will  be lucky to make the E8 conference tournament in my opinion.  RIT is 2-4 overall with 2 league losses.  At this point I have Fisher, Ithaca, Stevens, Utica, Nazareth, and Hartwick better than them.  I wouldn't go crowning Fisher as the class of the league because they beat a struggling team at home by 14.



    Wow, I never expected such a negative reaction, especially from the Cardinal fans. "They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8" is what I said and I'm sticking to it. Check with me half-way through the season and we'll see if I'm wrong. I'm a loyal Fisher soldier that is confident that we are going to step-up to the challenege and deliver another E8 title. Fisher fans should not be afraid to tell it like it is, we have dominated the E8 for the last 15 years and will continuue to do so.

    When I think of a team being the class of this conference, I am thinking that they'll be in the 14-2 or 15-1 range (i.e., recent Ithaca and Fisher teams). I don't see any one team dominating like that this season. As I said in my earlier post, Fisher may very well be the best team this year. However, I don't think their season will be without its share of inconsistent performances (like the Hobart loss). I think there's more parity this season than ever before. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the regular season conference champ go 11-5 or 12-4.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: SVCS on December 08, 2009, 01:40:03 PM
    Looks like Mahanna is doing more sideline coaching than Kornaker - he rides the players while Kornaker rides the refs.  Neither Witte nor Evans has had much PT so far this season - looks like Mahanna is mixing things up a bit...should be interesting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 08, 2009, 02:26:07 PM
    Gobombers I couldn't agree more.......I will go far enough, or fromafar enough to say, the 4th place team has 7 losses.  But what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 08, 2009, 08:20:47 PM
     There was a season like that a while back (maybe 00-01 a the year before?) I remember Fisher winning the league with a couple losses. Something like 4 or 5 of them. Fisher beat Elmira, and someone else lost on the last day of the season to give Fisher the automatic bid (Before the E8 tournament).

    I could see this season being more like that, but I think Fisher will have less than 5 losses in the league this year, probably more like 3 or 4. Hopefully Kornaker can get the team up for the conference games. I don't doubt at all that the teams shooting for the fourth spot may have 7 losses (Or more).

    I have seen most of the E8 teams, at least on video, and I do think Fisher is the most complete. IC is a quality team, and I have not seen Stevens but they look strong so far.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 09, 2009, 09:11:16 AM
    ill check out tha alma mater when they come to town to play UC-
    team sounds ---well---sound
    just needs a better presence in the paint
    this next game againse desales will tell a lot
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 09, 2009, 03:43:13 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 07, 2009, 11:27:27 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on December 06, 2009, 03:06:50 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 06, 2009, 12:38:28 AM
    HAHAHAHA....Fisher smacked RIT today. Ignore any previous posts saying otherwise. The score did not do the game justice. Fisher took the lead early in the first and was never threatened afterwards. They are an extremely well-coached team and have a lot of promising youngsters. They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8. Asst. coach Mahanna is surely someone to keep on your radars. Truly a rising star. RIT gave a good effort and I would not be surprised to see them upset a team in the future. Once the younger Cardinals relax and start finishing around the hoop and the team as a whole guards the three slightly better, its all over.

    Just curious, why do you say that about Coach Mahanna??


    First off, I certainly did not mean any disrespect to Coach Kornaker. His resume speaks for itself. Five E8 titles in the last seven years and a .778 winning percentage certainly says it all. Asst. coach Mahanna is entering his second season under Kornaker and has made a name for himself on the recruting trail among other coaches. The freshmen class, brought in by Kornaker and Mahannna, has created a bit of a stir in the E8 and surely will play a significant role in numerous league titles in the future for the Cardinals. The freshmen haven't seen much action yet but have showed flashes. Francis and Evans, in partiular, look like studs. I have also heard (from a few reliable people who would know) that Asst. coach Mahanna has been pivotal in the individual skill development of the returning players, Gettings and Henderson especially. If he's not a head coach within the next four or five years I will eat my hat.


    In regards to Mahanna, it is wayy too early to tell.  He has only been there two years and they didn't even make the E8 tourney is his first year.  Also, Fisher did fine without him the previous 5 or 6 years.  One of the definite up and coming coaches is Nevada Smith from IC.  He has been strong recruiting (Marcus, Cruz, current freshman, etc.) and is one of the main reasons the uptempo style was implemented. 

    IC's record the past 3 years speaks for itself:

    Record since arriving: 60-27 (69%)
    3 Years Prior: 42-40  (51%)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2009, 04:00:01 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on December 09, 2009, 03:43:13 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 07, 2009, 11:27:27 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on December 06, 2009, 03:06:50 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on December 06, 2009, 12:38:28 AM
    HAHAHAHA....Fisher smacked RIT today. Ignore any previous posts saying otherwise. The score did not do the game justice. Fisher took the lead early in the first and was never threatened afterwards. They are an extremely well-coached team and have a lot of promising youngsters. They are unquestionably the class of the elite 8. Asst. coach Mahanna is surely someone to keep on your radars. Truly a rising star. RIT gave a good effort and I would not be surprised to see them upset a team in the future. Once the younger Cardinals relax and start finishing around the hoop and the team as a whole guards the three slightly better, its all over.

    Just curious, why do you say that about Coach Mahanna??


    First off, I certainly did not mean any disrespect to Coach Kornaker. His resume speaks for itself. Five E8 titles in the last seven years and a .778 winning percentage certainly says it all. Asst. coach Mahanna is entering his second season under Kornaker and has made a name for himself on the recruting trail among other coaches. The freshmen class, brought in by Kornaker and Mahannna, has created a bit of a stir in the E8 and surely will play a significant role in numerous league titles in the future for the Cardinals. The freshmen haven't seen much action yet but have showed flashes. Francis and Evans, in partiular, look like studs. I have also heard (from a few reliable people who would know) that Asst. coach Mahanna has been pivotal in the individual skill development of the returning players, Gettings and Henderson especially. If he's not a head coach within the next four or five years I will eat my hat.


    In regards to Mahanna, it is wayy too early to tell.  He has only been there two years and they didn't even make the E8 tourney is his first year.  Also, Fisher did fine without him the previous 5 or 6 years.  One of the definite up and coming coaches is Nevada Smith from IC.  He has been strong recruiting (Marcus, Cruz, current freshman, etc.) and is one of the main reasons the uptempo style was implemented. 

    IC's record the past 3 years speaks for itself:

    Record since arriving: 60-27 (69%)
    3 Years Prior: 42-40  (51%)

    Smith's name has been mentioned a lot during the last year or so. I hope he gets an opportunity like Dobbs did at Potsdam.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 09, 2009, 09:05:54 PM
    Utica falls to Cortland State 71-61.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 09, 2009, 11:07:05 PM
    Back and forth play between Cortland and Utica College in the 1st half that saw 8 ties and 9 lead changes, before Red Dragons go into the break up 34-33. Largest lead was 5 pts achieved twice by Corts late in the half. Pioneers fall behind by 6 at the 16:13 mark of the 2nd, 41-35 but come roaring back with a 15-0 run in the next 4:30, highlighted by back to back treys by Will Abrams and James Paterson followed by an Abrams free throw and a Paterson steal and layup. Cortland finally stops the bleeding with a Mike Lewis layup and 2 ft's by Paul Oliver to pull within 5 at 50-45. Red Dragons continue comeback with 15-2 run of their own to take the lead 56-52 on another pair of Oliver ft's and a 3 pointer by Jeff Lamont. Red Dragons never headed and go 6x6 from the line down the stretch to seal the win.

    Cortland led by Paul Oliver with a double -double of 20 pts (6x10 fg's, 8x8 ft's) and 11 rebounds. Ben Nagle had 18 pts on 7x9 fg's and 4x4 ft;s with 8 boards. Jeff Lamont chipped in with 10 pts (2x5 fg's 2x2 3's, 4x4 ft's). Red Dragons were 24x48 from the field, 5x15 from beyond the arc and 18 for 20 from the line. Utica College only went to the charity stripe 11 times hitting 7. Cortland also won the battle of the boards 40-23. Utica College was led by Paterson with 25 pts. Patrick Goodman had 14, and Abrams added 11. Pioneers shot 25x62 from the field and 4x16 from 3 point land.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 11, 2009, 09:58:56 PM
    Bombers blow a 16 point second half lead, but manage to come out on top of St. Lawrence 101-97. Jordan Marcus goes for 34, and Andrei Oztemel has 30 as the Bombers manage to hold off the Saints.

    Ithaca wins their 3rd straight, but the team's inexperience shows as they nearly blow a huge 2nd half lead for the second time this season. The Bombers appear to have no ability to play defense, and seem to be content to outscore teams (or try to)

    The Bombers remind me of some of the Nazareth teams we've seen over the past few years. Dangerous, and a team that can hang with you, but too flawed to make a serious run. Perhaps next season, when the players have more experience, they can make a run. For now, I guess it's sit back and watch the scoreboard light up.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gobombers15 on December 12, 2009, 12:36:08 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 11, 2009, 09:58:56 PM
    Bombers blow a 16 point second half lead, but manage to come out on top of St. Lawrence 101-97. Jordan Marcus goes for 34, and Andrei Oztemel has 30 as the Bombers manage to hold off the Saints.

    Ithaca wins their 3rd straight, but the team's inexperience shows as they nearly blow a huge 2nd half lead for the second time this season. The Bombers appear to have no ability to play defense, and seem to be content to outscore teams (or try to)

    The Bombers remind me of some of the Nazareth teams we've seen over the past few years. Dangerous, and a team that can hang with you, but too flawed to make a serious run. Perhaps next season, when the players have more experience, they can make a run. For now, I guess it's sit back and watch the scoreboard light up.

    Getting outrebounded 44-29 doesn't help, either.  On the bright side, it looks like they have at least three guys who can go for 25 points on a given night (Marcus, Cruz, Oztemel).

    Ithaca attempted 39 three-point FG's tonight.  :o
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 12, 2009, 09:45:06 AM
    Quote from: gobombers15 on December 12, 2009, 12:36:08 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 11, 2009, 09:58:56 PM
    Bombers blow a 16 point second half lead, but manage to come out on top of St. Lawrence 101-97. Jordan Marcus goes for 34, and Andrei Oztemel has 30 as the Bombers manage to hold off the Saints.

    Ithaca wins their 3rd straight, but the team's inexperience shows as they nearly blow a huge 2nd half lead for the second time this season. The Bombers appear to have no ability to play defense, and seem to be content to outscore teams (or try to)

    The Bombers remind me of some of the Nazareth teams we've seen over the past few years. Dangerous, and a team that can hang with you, but too flawed to make a serious run. Perhaps next season, when the players have more experience, they can make a run. For now, I guess it's sit back and watch the scoreboard light up.

    Getting outrebounded 44-29 doesn't help, either.  On the bright side, it looks like they have at least three guys who can go for 25 points on a given night (Marcus, Cruz, Oztemel).

    Ithaca attempted 39 three-point FG's tonight.  :o

    Yeah, that's the weird thing though. Oztemel was only averaging like, 6 points a game prior to last night. And Cruz is so streaky...he was 3-9 from the floor and 2-4 from the line. He's not getting as many fast break points without Burton there.

    The guy I think this team misses the most (besides Burton) is Scott Ruffrage. They really need someone who can just come in and play 4-5 minutes of solid defense on a guy to stop a team on a run.

    The 39 threes are astounding. Almost half their shots this season have been from three
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 12, 2009, 12:18:06 PM
    Does anyone who was at the IC/SLU game have any information on the Saints? I believe they are in Fisher's tournament at the end of the month. I never know what to expect from them.

    Fisher has a swing game today. If they can beat desales and be 4-1, it seems like a pretty good start to the season in the first semester. If they lose, they drop to 3-2, and it is not nearly as impressive.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 12, 2009, 08:35:50 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 12, 2009, 12:18:06 PM
    Does anyone who was at the IC/SLU game have any information on the Saints? I believe they are in Fisher's tournament at the end of the month. I never know what to expect from them.

    Fisher has a swing game today. If they can beat desales and be 4-1, it seems like a pretty good start to the season in the first semester. If they lose, they drop to 3-2, and it is not nearly as impressive.

    I watched the game on TV (damn snow). St. Lawrence can shoot, but they're pretty careless with the ball. A lot of errant passes, but they're comfortable playing up tempo, and considering they were getting blown out early in the 2nd half (76-60) they're not the kind of team to quit.

    I'd say something about their inside game, but Ithaca doesn't really have one, so I'm not sure that outrebounding IC by 15 says anything. Ithaca's got one true center and he played 23 minutes and had 4 pts with 4 rebounds.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on December 12, 2009, 09:43:33 PM
    But tonight, playing against a very undersized Potsdam team, he had 33 & 9, shooting 16 for 18 from the field.

    Rossi is impressive, was able to penetrate & dish at will.

    Marcus suffered some sort of ankly injury as IC was pulling away in the second half and spent the rest of the game
    elevating & icing his ankle.  Hopefully the injury isn't too serious.

    Ithaca will be very good by the end of this season barring injury.  They have some very talented freshmen that will be sophomores in terms of game experience by late February.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 12, 2009, 10:10:13 PM
    Quote from: thebear on December 12, 2009, 09:43:33 PM
    But tonight, playing against a very undersized Potsdam team, he had 33 & 9, shooting 16 for 18 from the field.

    Rossi is impressive, was able to penetrate & dish at will.

    Marcus suffered some sort of ankly injury as IC was pulling away in the second half and spent the rest of the game
    elevating & icing his ankle.  Hopefully the injury isn't too serious.

    Ithaca will be very good by the end of this season barring injury.  They have some very talented freshmen that will be sophomores in terms of game experience by late February.



    Well, I wasn't referring to Barrera in my post, as he's a forward. He's a tenacious rebounder and clearly, when given the right team, a big time scorer.

    That's the third Bomber to go over the 30 point mark the last two games.

    Re: the Marcus injury, that's not good. Thankfully, the team is off for the next two weeks and doesn't play a challenging conference game until the 8th of January. (Sorry, Elmira)

    This Ithaca team reminds me of the one from two years ago that went 17-8. Good, but a year away and missing a piece or two. It'll be interesting this season
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 13, 2009, 11:29:24 AM
    What's up with E8 teams not holding leads?

    RIT up 62-41 with 13:46 to go, Fisher College closes on a 28-6 run to win 69-68. Stunning.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 13, 2009, 12:58:22 PM
    Fisher had a tough one yesterday going down to Desales by 2. The problem was not a personnel issue, but Desales shot lights out from 3, especially in the first half. Desales is better than I thought they would be. Fisher had a shot at the end, but was not able to convert a jumper.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 13, 2009, 02:32:24 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 13, 2009, 12:58:22 PM
    Fisher had a tough one yesterday going down to Desales by 2. The problem was not a personnel issue, but Desales shot lights out from 3, especially in the first half. Desales is better than I thought they would be. Fisher had a shot at the end, but was not able to convert a jumper.

    DeSales also did not have their best player in the game, D3 hoops  preseason
    All-American Darnell Braswell.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 13, 2009, 08:33:41 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 13, 2009, 02:32:24 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 13, 2009, 12:58:22 PM
    Fisher had a tough one yesterday going down to Desales by 2. The problem was not a personnel issue, but Desales shot lights out from 3, especially in the first half. Desales is better than I thought they would be. Fisher had a shot at the end, but was not able to convert a jumper.

    DeSales also did not have their best player in the game, D3 hoops  preseason
    All-American Darnell Braswell.

    If Fisher couldn't beat Desales without Braswell then I cant consider Fisher to be an elite team.  I gave them one freebie with the Hobart loss but this solidifies it.  I thought they had the potential to be a 21-22 win team but now it looks like they will hover around last year's record with 17 or so wins.

    In other news, Phil Barera is shooting an astounding 77.1% from the field while averaging 14.4 points per game.  He has been one of the main catalysts for the Bombers' 6-2 first semester start.  I know its been only 8 games but he is on pace to shatter the E8 record of 64% and break the Division III national record for field goal percentage (Current record is 76.6% and has stood for 15 seasons). Very impressive. Of course in his first game after this post he will probably go 3-14 or something and come back down to earth.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 13, 2009, 10:04:12 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on December 13, 2009, 08:33:41 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 13, 2009, 02:32:24 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 13, 2009, 12:58:22 PM
    Fisher had a tough one yesterday going down to Desales by 2. The problem was not a personnel issue, but Desales shot lights out from 3, especially in the first half. Desales is better than I thought they would be. Fisher had a shot at the end, but was not able to convert a jumper.

    DeSales also did not have their best player in the game, D3 hoops  preseason
    All-American Darnell Braswell.

    If Fisher couldn't beat Desales without Braswell then I cant consider Fisher to be an elite team.  I gave them one freebie with the Hobart loss but this solidifies it.  I thought they had the potential to be a 21-22 win team but now it looks like they will hover around last year's record with 17 or so wins.

    In other news, Phil Barera is shooting an astounding 77.1% from the field while averaging 14.4 points per game.  He has been one of the main catalysts for the Bombers' 6-2 first semester start.  I know its been only 8 games but he is on pace to shatter the E8 record of 64% and break the Division III national record for field goal percentage (Current record is 76.6% and has stood for 15 seasons). Very impressive. Of course in his first game after this post he will probably go 3-14 or something and come back down to earth.

    It's pretty tough to play the "on pace" game with percentages. Also, IC's sports information page has the Bombers at 6-1, so they're missing a game in there somewhere. Barerra's will be high, simply because of where he plays, but there's no reason to think it will finish anywhere near where it is now
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 14, 2009, 09:42:42 AM
    Bomber3, I agree that Fisher should not at this point be considered an elite team.  For one 'ELITE' teams don't lose at home to a team like Hobart and 2 lose to a team without their best player.  I knew fisher would be inconsistent similar to last year, however, to their benefit they do have some new pieces to their team and I expect them to be much better by the end of the season as they mesh and Kornacker gets the proper rotations set.   I do however, think they could get 20+ wins this season.  Desales is better than most teams in our conf this year if not all of them, especially if they shoot lights out from 3 like they did against fisher.  If Fisher played them again with Braswell I bet the score would be similar given Desales won't shoot it like that again.  In addition, Fisher played them on their home floor and only lost by 2.  The e8 is not very good this yea so i expect fisher to pick up a lot of in conference wins plus atleast 1 win in the conf tourny.  I think they'll hit 20 wins when its all said and done.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 14, 2009, 11:43:44 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on December 14, 2009, 09:42:42 AM
    Bomber3, I agree that Fisher should not at this point be considered an elite team.  For one 'ELITE' teams don't lose at home to a team like Hobart and 2 lose to a team without their best player.  I knew fisher would be inconsistent similar to last year, however, to their benefit they do have some new pieces to their team and I expect them to be much better by the end of the season as they mesh and Kornacker gets the proper rotations set.   I do however, think they could get 20+ wins this season.  Desales is better than most teams in our conf this year if not all of them, especially if they shoot lights out from 3 like they did against fisher.  If Fisher played them again with Braswell I bet the score would be similar given Desales won't shoot it like that again.  In addition, Fisher played them on their home floor and only lost by 2.  The e8 is not very good this yea so i expect fisher to pick up a lot of in conference wins plus atleast 1 win in the conf tourny.  I think they'll hit 20 wins when its all said and done.

    I've never liked saying "Well, this won't happen again" when trying to explain away losses, because people don't do it for wins. I mean, yeah, teams won't shoot the lights out like DeSales, but they also won't shoot 5-27 in the first half like RIT did. And Fisher didn't pull away in that game till there were about 10 min left. Nor is Fisher going 15-16 from 2 like in the second half against Brockport. That type of logic cuts both ways

    Of course, I feel the same way about some of IC's wins. Phil Barrera isn't going to go 16-18 every night and I don't think Andrei Oztemel will be consistently hitting 30 points a game.

    I think 17-18 wins feels about right for Fisher. Probably IC too. I think some of the teams at the top of the E8 will pick off some wins against each other.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on December 14, 2009, 09:15:17 PM
    I'm not bailing on Fisher like some of the other Cardinal "fans" on this board. This team is going to be just fine. Trust me. Hope you guys don't hurt yourselves jumping back on the Fisher bandwagon when they're making waves in the NCAA's.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 15, 2009, 08:39:58 AM
    which fisher fans are ya referrring to? ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on December 15, 2009, 12:49:22 PM
    Yeah which ones? saying they aren't elite team is a fact not really an opinion. everything else was positive. Sounds like Fisherman could be the guy from Hartwick. maybe he transfered.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 16, 2009, 02:53:54 PM
    I didn't reallize that questioning how good a person's favorite team really is makes you not a true fan. I would wonder how any team ever fired a coach, or signed new players with that attitude. Again, Fisherman, this Fisher team is OK, but not anything like the elite teams that made waves in the tournament a few years ago. If they win the league, and I think they will, that will be a good season for them. Asking for more than one win in the tourny, when they will probably have to travel to an Amherst or something like that is a totally different thing.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 16, 2009, 03:02:04 PM
    I posted this over on the football board, but wanted to get everyone's oppinion on this as well:

    There was a good article in the Ithaca Paper Tuesday from AP writer Alan Scher Zagier, about the underperformance academically of student athletes at the DIII level. Apparently student athletes at DIII schools in all sports score roughly 9 percentage points lower in school than the average of the rest of the student body. A group called the College sports project is looking into the statistic, and has the NCAA's interest. They have performed a study on 80 of the toughest academic schools in Division III, and are looking at their student averages (The UAA declined to participate in the study, so no U of R etc in the study. Too bad since that one league probably has most of the top 10 academic schools by itself.)

    The article was basically saying that this assumption that DIII has their priorities straight with sports and academics may not be so accurate after all. I found myself not sure what to make of the article. I was a student athlete at Fisher and did not see any difference in the time and energy I put into school compared to other students, but I was wondering how others on the boards viewed it? 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 16, 2009, 08:35:15 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 16, 2009, 03:02:04 PM
    I posted this over on the football board, but wanted to get everyone's oppinion on this as well:

    There was a good article in the Ithaca Paper Tuesday from AP writer Alan Scher Zagier, about the underperformance academically of student athletes at the DIII level. Apparently student athletes at DIII schools in all sports score roughly 9 percentage points lower in school than the average of the rest of the student body. A group called the College sports project is looking into the statistic, and has the NCAA's interest. They have performed a study on 80 of the toughest academic schools in Division III, and are looking at their student averages (The UAA declined to participate in the study, so no U of R etc in the study. Too bad since that one league probably has most of the top 10 academic schools by itself.)

    The article was basically saying that this assumption that DIII has their priorities straight with sports and academics may not be so accurate after all. I found myself not sure what to make of the article. I was a student athlete at Fisher and did not see any difference in the time and energy I put into school compared to other students, but I was wondering how others on the boards viewed it? 

    At my time at Ithaca, especially my final year, I had to miss a lot of practices due to class.  The coaching staff at IC mandated attending class over practice and I couldn't have asked more from them in terms of fairness and understanding.  I also noticed I performed substantially better in school during basketball season because I was more focused. 

    The study needs to follow these players during high school too.  Did the students have lower grades than their fellow classmates prior to playing at the DIII level? If so then the argument that DIII athletics contributes to lower grades is moot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 16, 2009, 10:31:29 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 16, 2009, 03:02:04 PM
    I posted this over on the football board, but wanted to get everyone's oppinion on this as well:

    There was a good article in the Ithaca Paper Tuesday from AP writer Alan Scher Zagier, about the underperformance academically of student athletes at the DIII level. Apparently student athletes at DIII schools in all sports score roughly 9 percentage points lower in school than the average of the rest of the student body. A group called the College sports project is looking into the statistic, and has the NCAA's interest. They have performed a study on 80 of the toughest academic schools in Division III, and are looking at their student averages (The UAA declined to participate in the study, so no U of R etc in the study. Too bad since that one league probably has most of the top 10 academic schools by itself.)

    The article was basically saying that this assumption that DIII has their priorities straight with sports and academics may not be so accurate after all. I found myself not sure what to make of the article. I was a student athlete at Fisher and did not see any difference in the time and energy I put into school compared to other students, but I was wondering how others on the boards viewed it? 

    I think that, in general, the thing that contributes to doing well is spending time doing work. I'm a professor, and the students of mine who put in the most time on assignments, come to class, come to office hours, do drafts, etc. are generally the ones who do better.

    Obviously, playing sports is a huge time commitment, so it's certainly logical to assume that there's some correlation. But that might be true for other students as well, like ones with full-time jobs, or other extra-curricular. That's kind of stating the obvious though
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 17, 2009, 08:02:51 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 16, 2009, 10:31:29 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 16, 2009, 03:02:04 PM
    I posted this over on the football board, but wanted to get everyone's oppinion on this as well:

    There was a good article in the Ithaca Paper Tuesday from AP writer Alan Scher Zagier, about the underperformance academically of student athletes at the DIII level. Apparently student athletes at DIII schools in all sports score roughly 9 percentage points lower in school than the average of the rest of the student body. A group called the College sports project is looking into the statistic, and has the NCAA's interest. They have performed a study on 80 of the toughest academic schools in Division III, and are looking at their student averages (The UAA declined to participate in the study, so no U of R etc in the study. Too bad since that one league probably has most of the top 10 academic schools by itself.)

    The article was basically saying that this assumption that DIII has their priorities straight with sports and academics may not be so accurate after all. I found myself not sure what to make of the article. I was a student athlete at Fisher and did not see any difference in the time and energy I put into school compared to other students, but I was wondering how others on the boards viewed it? 

    I think that, in general, the thing that contributes to doing well is spending time doing work. I'm a professor, and the students of mine who put in the most time on assignments, come to class, come to office hours, do drafts, etc. are generally the ones who do better.

    Obviously, playing sports is a huge time commitment, so it's certainly logical to assume that there's some correlation. But that might be true for other students as well, like ones with full-time jobs, or other extra-curricular. That's kind of stating the obvious though

    I'm not sure a study across the board in DIII can be terribly valid.  I mean, the student athlete at a NESCAC or UAA school is likely to be more focused than say, those at SUNY Morrisville.  Maybe a more valid study would be differences within a particular school or even conference.  How do Ithaca athletes compare to the general population of Ithaca students, for example.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 17, 2009, 12:18:47 PM
    According to the article, the study was only looking at 80 of the "most academically challenging" schools, not including the UAA. I think that may have something to do with it as well. The same student athlete is probably not going to do as well at Carnegie Mellon or the Univesity of Chicago, as they would do at say Fisher or Naz. Obviously I went to Fisher, and I think the shool is a quality one, I can admit that we are not on the same level as the little IVY league that is the UAA.

    It was my experience that when I was in school I missed practices and such because of class, and was always more tuned into school than I was athletics. I just wonder what the NCAA will do about this now that this study has their attention. In DI and DII the NCAA subjects schools to academic reviews of their athletes. Will that happen at the DIII level now?

    I think the more important question to be looking at is what were the qualifications of the student to get into the school they are attending. Does U of R or Brandeis drop academic standards and SAT requirements to get a better basketball player? I doubt it, but that is the bigger question to me. If DIII student, who by defiinition is paying his way through school can live with a 9% points lower GPA than he could get, I have no problem with that. It is probably worth the 9% points to have the sport on your resume. It would be different if DIII schools are denying some qualified students, because they want to win games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 17, 2009, 01:05:28 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 17, 2009, 12:18:47 PM

    I think the more important question to be looking at is what were the qualifications of the student to get into the school they are attending. Does U of R or Brandeis drop academic standards and SAT requirements to get a better basketball player? I doubt it, but that is the bigger question to me. If DIII student, who by defiinition is paying his way through school can live with a 9% points lower GPA than he could get, I have no problem with that. It is probably worth the 9% points to have the sport on your resume. It would be different if DIII schools are denying some qualified students, because they want to win games.

    Well, I think some considerations are made, but only if the coach/staff believe the athlete can handle the pressure.  When my son was being recruited it was pretty eye opening.  He was a good student but not top 10 in his class.  He was a leader and did a lot of extracurricular things  So when Hartwick, UNE, SUNY schools etc contacted him I understood.  But then Wesleyan and Dickinson started pushing I thought it odd.  And when U of R called, it was all over but the dancing.  His career ended after his soph season (injuries, numbers and fianlly reaching the point where putting his body through the torture was no longer worth NOT doing some other pretty teriffic things) but he's still there and doing well.  Loves it in fact.  Would he be there if it weren't for basketball?  No I really don't think so.  Is he making the most out a situation aided by sports?  Absolutely.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 18, 2009, 01:45:58 PM
    I agree with Ethelread... There are too many factors to have a valid study. Probably the most valid study would be within a school itself.. That's apples to apples. Take an RIT (my alma mater). Not an easy school to get into.  If they make concessions for the athletes admission, (they may) then that should show in how they fare comparitive to those students who were not recruited, and attend  the same classes. There are too many factors for a study of this kind to be valid. Different curriculums, teachers, personalities........Being an engineer, I don't care for subjective studies. However I do understand that studies like this get people thinking.  That's not a bad thing.... ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 29, 2009, 08:12:23 PM
    So I turn on the Fisher game tonight to listen to the play by play and I hear that 3 of 5 starters, and like 7 of the top 10 scorers are suspended for breaking team rules? Any information out there on what the players did? Or how long they are out? How about who is out?

    I like that there is discipline in the program, but my mind is racing about what is going on.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 29, 2009, 08:52:11 PM
    Ithaca beats Roanoke College 96-88 in the 1st round of the Bill Sudeck Holiday Classic at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland Ohio. Chris Cruz-Rivas led the Bombers with 26 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, and 5 steals. Phil Barera had a double-double with 24 pts and 11 boards. Jordan Marcus also scored 24 pts and Andrie Oztemel Chipped in with 10. Bombers take on the winner of Theil vs. Case Western Reserve tomorrow at 4 PM. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 29, 2009, 10:04:47 PM
    It is hard not to be proud of that effort if you are a Fisher fan. Fisher without 3 starters, and 7 of their 10 leading scorers has a big second half and pulls away from St. Vincent and wins 68-47. Norsen plays well in the second half, the young PG Francis does a good job in a tough situation, Jordan Koch pours in 25 to lead Fisher.

    The team can not let the good feeling last since they have to play the Championship in less than 24 hours, and it appears they will be without the group of players that were suspended today. According to what I heard from someone who would know, a group of players were drinking in the hotel, and they are suspended for this tourny. In the long run, the team will probably be better because of this, but tomorrow looks like it will be a tough one.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 29, 2009, 10:12:32 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 29, 2009, 08:52:11 PM
    Ithaca beats Roanoke College 96-88 in the 1st round of the Bill Sudeck Holiday Classic at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland Ohio. Chris Cruz-Rivas led the Bombers with 26 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, and 5 steals. Phil Barera had a double-double with 24 pts and 11 boards. Jordan Marcus also scored 24 pts and Andrie Oztemel Chipped in with 10. Bombers take on the winner of Theil vs. Case Western Reserve tomorrow at 4 PM.  

    Also, Sean Rossi sets a school record with 17 assists. Rossi now averages 9 assists per game, which gives him the conference lead by a significant margin. He's also averaging 12 points per game.

    I confess to not knowing much about the rest of the freshman class in the E8, but he's got to be among the leaders for freshman of the year, no?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 30, 2009, 01:54:07 PM
    That is the name that I keep hearing. I can't think of anyone else even close.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 30, 2009, 06:35:04 PM
    I'm curious to know the details of the Fisher suspensions.  Was it the night before the game? If so then its totally deserved.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 30, 2009, 06:40:40 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 30, 2009, 01:54:07 PM
    That is the name that I keep hearing. I can't think of anyone else even close.

    Bombers continue to light up the scoreboard, topping Case Western 97-94. Jordan Marcus pours in 44 points, the second time this season he's topped 40 points. Rossi, Cruz-Rivas and Barrera also contribute 10+ points.

    Jordan Marcus is having a year and a half, and now averages 23.5 points per game. Barrera is shooting 75.3% from the floor. Ithaca moves to 8-2 on the season.

    I've gotta say, I know the postseason results haven't been there the last two seasons, but Ithaca's 49-11 in their past 2+ regular seasons, and that's as impressive a run as they've had in school history. Great stuff for a high-flying offense
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 30, 2009, 10:01:23 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on December 30, 2009, 06:35:04 PM
    I'm curious to know the details of the Fisher suspensions.  Was it the night before the game? If so then its totally deserved.

    I don't know what the details were with the apparent drinking party at the hotel. Hard to believe it would be the night before the game, but a lot of the players were back in the lineup today. I did notice that Ozell Franklin did not play any minutes today? I wonder if he is continuing to be punished, or if something else is going on. I think Fisher will be better off now that this has happened (Easy to say that when they won both games this weekend). Kornaker now knows they have some young talent that can come in and do the job when the usual suspects are off their game, or need some minutes on the bench. Norsen played big minutes today (I think he had the most of any player for Fisher), and Francis got more than he has been seeing. Young players confidence will also go up. I was really impressed with Koch this week as well. I am officially intrigued about the Future.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on December 31, 2009, 12:32:16 AM
    With Jordan Marcus going over 40 for the second time this season, I'm starting to wonder what in the heck this kid is doing in Division III.   :o :o
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: JQV on December 31, 2009, 08:29:14 AM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 31, 2009, 12:32:16 AM
    With Jordan Marcus going over 40 for the second time this season, I'm starting to wonder what in the heck this kid is doing in Division III.   :o :o

    He's a 6'2" white kid.  Take it from this 6'2" white kid, the jobs are scarce.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 31, 2009, 08:39:30 AM
    Caz -

    I'm not sure if he got any offers for D1.  I've said it here before and ill say it again- he was the national jewish player of the year for high school in 2008 but I don't think he got any serious D1 looks.  If there is a downside to his game it would be lack of defensive intensity and lack of athleticism.  These could be potential reasons for staying at the D3 level.  He makes up for it with a super quick first step and about a quick of a release you can have.  If he keeps this up he has potential national and regional recognition coming his way for the next 3 years.

    Great wins the past 2 days and congrats to Rossi for breaking the school record for assists. 

    This team is set at the guard position for the next 3 years barring injury.  Great job recruiting by the coaching staff.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 31, 2009, 09:16:08 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on December 31, 2009, 08:39:30 AM
    Caz -

    I'm not sure if he got any offers for D1.  I've said it here before and ill say it again- he was the national jewish player of the year for high school in 2008 but I don't think he got any serious D1 looks.  If there is a downside to his game it would be lack of defensive intensity and lack of athleticism.  These could be potential reasons for staying at the D3 level.  He makes up for it with a super quick first step and about a quick of a release you can have.  If he keeps this up he has potential national and regional recognition coming his way for the next 3 years.

    Great wins the past 2 days and congrats to Rossi for breaking the school record for assists. 

    This team is set at the guard position for the next 3 years barring injury.  Great job recruiting by the coaching staff.



    Recruiting is an inexact sceince at best and finding the "right" situation is a great thing.  As much time as DIII players have to give to the game, I can only imagine that it is increased ten=fold at the DI level. 

    There was a UofR recruit two years ago that got virtually no PT his freshman year and transferred back to his "hometown" college.  He was seen by the father of the basketball coach while playing against some of the teams players in an off-season pickup game and was asked to be a practice player.  So he spent his sophomore year practicing with the varsity and sitting on the bench in his suit during home games.  This year he actually made the team and the last time I checked he had been in 4 games in a mop up role - pretty much the same as when he was at UofR.  The only difference?  He's at Georgetown University now.  Right place-right time. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 31, 2009, 01:31:00 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on December 31, 2009, 08:39:30 AM
    Caz -

    I'm not sure if he got any offers for D1.  I've said it here before and ill say it again- he was the national jewish player of the year for high school in 2008 but I don't think he got any serious D1 looks.  If there is a downside to his game it would be lack of defensive intensity and lack of athleticism.  These could be potential reasons for staying at the D3 level.  He makes up for it with a super quick first step and about a quick of a release you can have.  If he keeps this up he has potential national and regional recognition coming his way for the next 3 years.

    Great wins the past 2 days and congrats to Rossi for breaking the school record for assists. 

    This team is set at the guard position for the next 3 years barring injury.  Great job recruiting by the coaching staff.



    The Bombers lack defensive ability at pretty much every spot on the floor. Bostic and Ruffrage were guys who could step up and make plays. This team is terrible defensively. Opponents are shooting 50.1% from the floor and averaging 85 PPG. I know they play an up-tempo style and outscore teams, but last season, teams shot 45% from the floor and scored 73 PPG.

    That's what will stop this team from making a deep run. Last years' team could score 90-100 points. This team needs to score 90-100 points to win.

    You can't argue with results, but looking at the one game they played against a truly elite team doesn't bode well.

    But, at least it's fun basketball right?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 02, 2010, 02:19:21 PM
    It is fun to watch IC play, and they are winning games, so I would say so far so good if you are an IC fan. I agree they need to play a little more defense, but I think the young guys will learn that as they grow. It is nice to have a rediculous offense to fall back on tho. IC will beat a lot of teams just because some teams just do not have it in them to score 100.

    Big game between Fisher and Stevens today. I don't know anything about Stevens, but their record is good, and Fisher has not played well in New Jersey yet. Hopefully Fisher is past all of the adversity from the tournament, and can put together a good performance today. Ultimately I tihnk both teams will be in the E8 tourny but it is the big game today. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 02, 2010, 06:08:03 PM
    Fisher had a big first half and jumped out to a 24 point lead at the half. Fisher looked to be content to just take the air out of the ball in the second and let Stevens back in the game, but they were able to hold on for a 13 point win. A good start to the conference schedule for Fisher with wins over RIT and Stevens (especially on the road). Fisher is home a lot down the stretch and the road games they do have are teams like Naz and RIT, so not too far away. These next few conference games are big ones for Fisher.

    I did not see Ozell Franklin with any minutes again today, and from what I could tell on the video feed, he was not on the bench. Has he left the team? Fisher will miss him if he is gone. Not sure what is going on there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on January 02, 2010, 07:06:51 PM
    From what I heard Franklin is not playing because of grades
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 02, 2010, 08:51:46 PM
    Do u know if he is out for the semester or till the end of break.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: GPT on January 03, 2010, 01:29:02 PM
    From what I heard it's a combination of missed class's and low GPA
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 03, 2010, 03:50:28 PM
    That is too bad about Franklin, but you have to go to class and make sure you keep your grades up. I don't know him obviously but he seemed like a smart enough kid whenever I heard him speak. I wonder if this has been a recurring problem?

    On the floor Fisher jumped out to another double digit lead at halftime (16), and holds on down the stretch to beat a game Hartwick team. HC never quit and had the game down to a 5 differential with about 3 minutes left. Fisher hit some big free throws down the stretch and won by 9.

    Defense is going to be key for Fisher in the conference this year. So far they have held all three conference teams they have played to under 20 points at halftime, and held on down the stretch.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 03, 2010, 10:02:32 PM
    Hey gang. been busy through the Holidays..... I caught the Stevens NAZ GAME TONIGHT....   STEVENS CLEARLY THE BETTER TEAM... sorry for the caps, slipped finger..   Stevens with the ball last possession tie game.... the write up states a QUESTIONABLE BACK COURT VIOLATION... no question at all..
    Freshman Russ Thompson had the ball, while passing the ball, a defender on Naz got a hand on it and knocked it off a Stevens players leg into the back court, right in front of the ref,  Greco hustles and gets the ball with 5.5 left and the ref calls back court.....amazing....... Naz did not impress me... Mc Adams usual self leaning on defenders getting calls, and taking 4 steps everytime he penetrates... hey, he's been doing it 4 years and is certainly smart enough to get away with it, give him credit...........  I can't make up my mind if this win for NAZ helps my Tigers or not.....I'm getting itchy to get them back on the court......I think Naz will win their share but can be had by the Alfreds, and Utica's as well as my guys.... before this is all over.... They are not deep, however Mc Adams can control a game........But what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 04, 2010, 09:55:31 AM
    I watched the Stevens Naz game online and Stevens looked like the better team to me. I think Naz can be a very dangerous team to the top of the league this year tho.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 04, 2010, 10:18:41 PM
    Big day in the Empire 8 tomorrow with a lot of conference games on the schedule. I will take:

    Ithaca over Elmira by 108. (something more like 25 in reality)
    Fisher over Alfred by 15
    Stevens over Utica by 7-10
    RIT vs Naz could be a real interesting game, but I will take RIT by 3.

    I get the feeling that some teams will treat these games like a must win. Stevens had a great start but stumbled last weekend to a 2-2 conference record. They will not want to lose 3 straight conference games, and lose a potential tiebreaker down the road with Utica.

    RIT is the big one. They are 0-2 in the league already, and playing a good team in Naz. I think if any team playing tomorrow needs a win it is them. The games between Rochester area teams are usually tough, hard fought games, but the tigers may have more of a chip on their shoulders than usual. Naz was fortunate  to win against Stevens, so they are sort of playing with house money.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 05, 2010, 09:04:13 AM
    SJFCARDS, RIT better have a chip on their shoulders tonight.... I truly believe the Tigers are deeper and have more talent... but you know my theory, you need a true point guard and we have been lacking there. Korinichak is not the answer.... Naz has Mc Adams, and they are home... tough to overcome at their place, however nothing like playing at Fisher...Your right NAZ got a gift at Stevens, but I think they play better loose...I dunno know.... I think Naz wins by 5.......I look for Alfred to make it a little closer, I think they lose, but under 10.  Ithaca can name the score.  Stevens needs to put the ball in Greco's hands on offense... I couldn't believe the other night they had a freshman handling the ball on last possession, with Greco on weak side... GG should have had the ball in his hands.... he has shown he can create and usually clutch..... also shooting almost 90% from free throw line so puts pressure on defense ( do you let him go or play tough with chance you foul???   Stevens should handle this bunch as long as they control the boards. I look for low scoring affair, maybe 63-56 Stevens.......BUT what do I know ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 05, 2010, 05:13:51 PM
    This has probably already been posted, and some of you may know about it, but you can watch a lot of games live online at www.pennatlantic.com.

    I think it's only conference games, but it's pretty sweet considering it's free...

    Bombers should cruise tonight and improve to 9-2...maybe Marcus quits jerking us around with these 44-point games and goes off for 50+...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 05, 2010, 08:20:27 PM
    23-8 Bombers early...no audio, but it looks like Phil Barera is going to have another big night...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 05, 2010, 08:36:58 PM
    46-30 IC at the break...Barera with 16 and 7...Rossi with 7 assists.

    One note: No Chris Cruz-Rivas tonight. Anyone have word?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 05, 2010, 09:31:38 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 05, 2010, 08:36:58 PM
    46-30 IC at the break...Barera with 16 and 7...Rossi with 7 assists.

    One note: No Chris Cruz-Rivas tonight. Anyone have word?

    Elmira hangs tough as Bombers go cold to start the 2nd half. IC eventually pulls away, 84-71. Not a great performance by IC, but, missing Rivas and putting up 84 is still a good sign
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 05, 2010, 10:00:04 PM
    Fisher plays, in my oppinion, their best game of the year, and rolls up AU by 33. Fisher was sharp on offense, and held another team to under 20 in the first half (16). The start followed a familiar pattern, Fisher jumping out early on a 9-0 run, but this game did not have the scoreless stretch in the second half which has let other conference teams get back in the game. They looked good.

    Tough to see that RIT took a thumping against Naz. Ouch.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 06, 2010, 09:32:52 AM
    Ouch is right.......  This team (RIT) just doesn't seem to play together. Too many individuals... again need that floor general, alla McAdams, and Greco.
    I will never give up this early BUT not looking good. We need to beat a Fisher or Ithaca to get some confidence. Maybe a change of leagues is what we need... I hate leaving this league though..... Anyone see the Stevens game... they seemed to handle Utica easily, and who shut down Patterson?   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 06, 2010, 10:47:34 AM
    Maybe it's just because it's early, but I get the feeling the conference tournament is practically set. Four winless teams, three unbeaten teams, and one with their only win over a winless team (Wick over Elmira).

    As Nazareth showed last year, things can turn around, but right now, I'd have a hard time picking anyone from the lower ranks to catch SJF and Naz, and IC and Stevens look like they'll be in as well.

    Maybe that 4th spot could get dodgy, but I just have a feeling the standings in May may look similar to what they do now
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Go Naz on January 06, 2010, 11:32:34 AM
    In regards to the Stevens-Naz game, I find it hard to believe that Stevens is CLEARLY THE BETTER TEAM.  It is tough to back up that argument.  If they were CLEARLY BETTER, they would have taken care of business on their home court.  You can take about questionable calls all you want, but a superior team doesn't let officiating decide a game, especially not a game at home.  I love how little respect Naz gets on these boards.  After thumping RIT last night, I have to say that they are playing as well as anyone in the Empire 8 right now, but no one seems to mention them when talking about elite teams in the league.  Broderick has made them a very good defensive team, and they have the best player in the league running the show for them.  They play a small athletic lineup and create big time match up problems for other teams.  Right now they have as good a chance to win the league as anyone else if not a better one.  Meanwhile...Naz will just keep basking in the hate down here on East Ave.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 06, 2010, 01:59:43 PM
    Go NAZ relax, no hate here for any of these teams..... If you watched the game Stevens was Clearly  the better team.  Every now and then the game is not decided by the players, and that was one... I wish I could say the same for the beating RIT took from your guys last night...but I can't. I give Mc Adams all the credit in the world, he has a great feel for waht the refs will allow and he adjusts appropriately. I wish RIT had someone like that. I want to see NAZ beat Fischer and Ithaca, then they will be Elite. Right now I don't consider any of these Teams to be Elite. The one, if any that sweeps the Top 3 I will then consider Elite.... But what do I know ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 06, 2010, 05:47:30 PM
    Quote from: Go Naz on January 06, 2010, 11:32:34 AM
    In regards to the Stevens-Naz game, I find it hard to believe that Stevens is CLEARLY THE BETTER TEAM.  It is tough to back up that argument.  If they were CLEARLY BETTER, they would have taken care of business on their home court.  You can take about questionable calls all you want, but a superior team doesn't let officiating decide a game, especially not a game at home.  I love how little respect Naz gets on these boards.  After thumping RIT last night, I have to say that they are playing as well as anyone in the Empire 8 right now, but no one seems to mention them when talking about elite teams in the league.  Broderick has made them a very good defensive team, and they have the best player in the league running the show for them.  They play a small athletic lineup and create big time match up problems for other teams.  Right now they have as good a chance to win the league as anyone else if not a better one.  Meanwhile...Naz will just keep basking in the hate down here on East Ave.

    I love how you get hyper defensive after one comment. Good for Naz. They've improved from that 27-48 (14-28) record from 2005-2007. Maybe that has something to do with this perceived lack of respect? You've been under .500 for four of the last five seasons. Now we're supposed to bow down to an 8-3 team? And this is coming from the guy who basically gave Naz one of the two top spots in the conference:

    "I'd have a hard time picking anyone from the lower ranks to catch SJF and Naz,"

    Now, I'm an Ithaca fan, and lord knows, we're not exactly known for basketball prowess, (we are known for not winning in the postseason) but get over the inferiority complex
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: the golden flyer on January 06, 2010, 09:27:54 PM
    After seeing Naz play 4 or 5 games this year this is what I have taken in thus far...

    Unlike years past, Naz is actually playing team defense this year. The players seem to be buying into Coach Broderick's system, especially defensively. Coming into the year I did not expect them to be doing as well as they have been thus far. Freshman Tyshun Stephens is certainly someone to build around for the next few years. Despite being young, they seem to be playing with poise and lots of confidence. Naz has won many games because of their ability to shoot the 3. Corletta, Stephens, and Scaffidi have helped take the load off for McAdam somewhat. Lotheridge has been too inconsistent inside but because of his size, can block a lot of shots which will boost the defense.

    I had a chance to see the RIT Naz game last night and I wasn't impressed with RIT at all. I am a little bit shocked, as RIT seems to be solid year in and year out. I have always had a lot of respect for Coach McVean and in my opinion is probably the best coach in the league. However, the loss of Carson is proving to be too much for the Tigers this year. The one bright spot for the Tigers is sophomore Brendan Harder. 26 and 18, very solid.

    I have not had a chance to see Fisher play this year but they seem to be taking care of business as they usually do. I am anxiously awaiting Naz-Fisher as there could be a lot at stake...

    One last note for Naz, this weekend will be tough especially playing at Ithaca and Utica. Naz has not had any success against either of these teams on the road in recent years. In fact, Naz hasn't won a regular season game at Ithaca in an awfully long time (10 years maybe?). This will be a litmus test game for them for sure...



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 06, 2010, 11:00:41 PM
    Quote from: the golden flyer on January 06, 2010, 09:27:54 PM
    After seeing Naz play 4 or 5 games this year this is what I have taken in thus far...

    Unlike years past, Naz is actually playing team defense this year. The players seem to be buying into Coach Broderick's system, especially defensively. Coming into the year I did not expect them to be doing as well as they have been thus far. Freshman Tyshun Stephens is certainly someone to build around for the next few years. Despite being young, they seem to be playing with poise and lots of confidence. Naz has won many games because of their ability to shoot the 3. Corletta, Stephens, and Scaffidi have helped take the load off for McAdam somewhat. Lotheridge has been too inconsistent inside but because of his size, can block a lot of shots which will boost the defense.

    I had a chance to see the RIT Naz game last night and I wasn't impressed with RIT at all. I am a little bit shocked, as RIT seems to be solid year in and year out. I have always had a lot of respect for Coach McVean and in my opinion is probably the best coach in the league. However, the loss of Carson is proving to be too much for the Tigers this year. The one bright spot for the Tigers is sophomore Brendan Harder. 26 and 18, very solid.

    I have not had a chance to see Fisher play this year but they seem to be taking care of business as they usually do. I am anxiously awaiting Naz-Fisher as there could be a lot at stake...

    One last note for Naz, this weekend will be tough especially playing at Ithaca and Utica. Naz has not had any success against either of these teams on the road in recent years. In fact, Naz hasn't won a regular season game at Ithaca in an awfully long time (10 years maybe?). This will be a litmus test game for them for sure...





    Yeah Ithaca's replaced Naz as far as not playing defense. I like them quite a bit actually. McAdam's a stud. I think there's four good teams in the conference with a shot to win it
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 07, 2010, 12:02:26 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 06, 2010, 01:59:43 PM
    Go NAZ relax, no hate here for any of these teams..... If you watched the game Stevens was Clearly  the better team.  Every now and then the game is not decided by the players, and that was one... I wish I could say the same for the beating RIT took from your guys last night...but I can't. I give Mc Adams all the credit in the world, he has a great feel for waht the refs will allow and he adjusts appropriately. I wish RIT had someone like that. I want to see NAZ beat Fischer and Ithaca, then they will be Elite. Right now I don't consider any of these Teams to be Elite. The one, if any that sweeps the Top 3 I will then consider Elite.... But what do I know ;)   

    I think instead of giving McAdam credit for adjusting to the refs we should think about how stupid it is for these teams to pressure him all game and allow him to shoot 10-15 free throws/game (in the last 3 games he has shot 10,15,10 fts, respectively). A majority of those free throws come off of non-shooting situations when he's getting fouled close to half court. Back off of him and quit giving him free points! The handchecks are fouls, so they will be called and Broderick will let the refs hear it if they don't call em.

    Also, defenders keep bailing him out in the lane too often. You rarely see him get in the lane, come to a jump stop, and go right up. He always throws 2-3 fakes in there before going up for a shot and ppl keep fouling him! Yeah, it's partially him being smart and having the best bball IQ in the conference, but part of it also has to deal with the lack of discipline by his defenders.

    As for the Stevens-Naz game - I think the last 30 seconds were just plain stupid on Stevens' part. Why didn't they call a timeout to set something up for that last possession? Then, why did they allow McAdam to get the ball on the inbounds, and basically give them a 5 on 3 situation as both defenders on McAdam played terrible defense.

    Now Bombers, I don't think that Go Naz was asking you to "bow down" to Naz, I think he was just saying they need to get some credit. Their recent E-8 wins are great wins and they should get some credit. This upcoming weekend will be a tough trip for them and will certainly test their youth and inexperience. We must also remember that this team that has gone under .500 4 of the last 5 seasons has more postseason wins than Ithaca in the last few years, including the Conference Tourney, I believe...correct me if I'm wrong.

    One final note before weekend predictions - I was impressed w/Harder from RIT. Kid is a workhorse and will continue to improve as he is only a sophomore. I'm a big fan of him.


    Weekend predictions...

    Friday
    IC over Naz...Naz just can't win there. But it will be a close one.

    Utica over Fisher...not so sure about either one of these teams as of now, but I think UC squeezes it out.

    Hartwick over Alfred...

    Saturday
    Fisher over IC...after a tough game friay night, IC has to make the drive to East Ave and play a tough game. I don't see them pulling it out.


    Nazareth over Utica...Naz took care of them pretty easily earlier this season, but this one will be closer.

    Sunday
    Stevens over Hartwick

    This post was way too long. Roll Tide!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 07, 2010, 08:25:16 AM
    Not too long at all E8bball..... a lot of good "stuff", let me first touch upon Mc Adams on last time. Great BBall IQ, but I am not sure MOST dfouls come outside.. I don't see him as much as NAZ fans so this is basically shooting from the hip, but I notice he gets in the paint and at that point you can't play off him, the he leans into the defender and quite often gets soft touch fouls...The bigs are banging one another with less calls in the paint... I am by no means knocking McAdams, he is doing exactly what he should, I just see that pivot foot swithched quite often and no call... I believe this is what gets him to the line.... But this is certainly not that inportant in the whole scheme of things. I certainly agree with you about the last 30 seconds of the Stevens game. A time out should have been called and something set up. Stevens should have had the last shot and either win or go to O.T. In addition, the ball should never have been in McAdams hands. They had the Freshman on him, and that was a mistake.

    This weekend......IC NAZ, I cannot call........ this will tell us something about these teams. If Naz wins, they are for real. This will also show how defensive minded Naz really is, since IC can light it up every night. However IC does not play D and I am sure MCAdams will have a field day.  I think Fischer is for real. They have some talented Bigs, and they play smart. I don't see a go to guy, but they are very deep.   I hate  to say this but UC doesn't seem to be an issue.. If they can beat Fisher, then this league truly is wide open............Hey go NAZ, enjoy your team, and continue to support them..... remember, this site has been very congenial through the years and many of us knock our own teams when deserved...  ;)


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 07, 2010, 09:21:55 AM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on January 07, 2010, 12:02:26 AM


    One final note before weekend predictions - I was impressed w/Harder from RIT. Kid is a workhorse and will continue to improve as he is only a sophomore. I'm a big fan of him.



    Does anybody know what happened to Dan O'brien, Harder's HS teammate at Oneonta?  They both went to RIT but I don't see O'brein on the roster this year.  Just curious
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 07, 2010, 09:56:53 AM
    Big weekend upcoming and hopefully the Bombers can get at least one win.  I'm confident with the Naz game although I think it will be a struggle with IC pulling away late.  With the one expception of the E8 tournament game last season, IC has owned Naz over the past several years.  I don't  think Naz has the firepower to stick around with IC all game.  This should be a fun game to watch with the 2 of the nation's leading point guards (Rossi 3rd nationally in apg as  FRESHMAN, McAdam about 17th).

    Bombers are going to have to bounce back quick with perhaps the bigges conference matchup of the year.  Fisher has one of the nation's best defenses (I think 5th in ppg allowed and FG% defense) and Ithaca one of the best offenses (6th in scoring I believe).  IC usually has a tough time shooting @ Fisher but hopefully Marcus/Cruz can get hot.  Look for the game to be in the high-60s/low70s with the game being close. Fisher will try and slow things down to their pace.  IC needs to keep Fisher's bigs off the glass (margin with 5) and knock down 9-10 3's to have a chance. 

    Let's goooo Bombers!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 07, 2010, 01:05:46 PM
    Bomber 3......9-10 3's???? I don't think that's happening, AND I do think Fisher can slow IC down a bit.... Fisher cannot out offense IC but they can out Defend them.... This should be an extremely interesting game. Coaching and execution are huge in this one... I give Fisher the advantage since they are home..they will get the calls at home, as usual, so IC will have a bit to overcome. IF IC can win this one they are going to be extremely tough the rest of the way.  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 07, 2010, 03:06:37 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 07, 2010, 01:05:46 PM
    Bomber 3......9-10 3's???? I don't think that's happening, AND I do think Fisher can slow IC down a bit.... Fisher cannot out offense IC but they can out Defend them.... This should be an extremely interesting game. Coaching and execution are huge in this one... I give Fisher the advantage since they are home..they will get the calls at home, as usual, so IC will have a bit to overcome. IF IC can win this one they are going to be extremely tough the rest of the way.  ;)

    Why couldn't that happen? IC averages 9.5 3's per game thru 11 games so why couldnt they keep exactly their average? I know Fisher will try and slow them down and they have one of the better defenses in the country but if IC can shoot well and rebound they will win.  IC made 10 3's in the first HALF against Hartwick so they can definitely light it up (disclaimer: yes I know Fisher is a different breed but still). 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 08, 2010, 07:53:24 AM
    Bomber, that was exactly my point... If they are avg. 9.5 per game, chances of hitting 9.5 against Fisher slim... Fisher will give them less trips, making it difficult.........Hartwick is not a defensive team, tough to make that comparison... I agree IC may very well be the better team, BUT Fisher at home is really tough.....For some reason the refs just become Fisher fans, I don't know why but they do..... I have no problem with home cooking, as a matter of fact, I expect it, but at Fisher it is usually over the top.... Now all you Fisher guys, I am not saying Fisher needs the refs to be good... They are good on their own, just an obervation which I am sure most will agree with.... :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 08, 2010, 09:40:36 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 08, 2010, 07:53:24 AM
    Bomber, that was exactly my point... If they are avg. 9.5 per game, chances of hitting 9.5 against Fisher slim... Fisher will give them less trips, making it difficult.........Hartwick is not a defensive team, tough to make that comparison... I agree IC may very well be the better team, BUT Fisher at home is really tough.....For some reason the refs just become Fisher fans, I don't know why but they do..... I have no problem with home cooking, as a matter of fact, I expect it, but at Fisher it is usually over the top.... Now all you Fisher guys, I am not saying Fisher needs the refs to be good... They are good on their own, just an obervation which I am sure most will agree with.... :)

    Oh I know there will be fewer possessions and they are a solid defensive team but I said that's what it will probably take to knock them off.  IC will undoubtedly have to shoot the 3 well and if they get off around 22-25 3's (averaging 27.5) then making 9 equates to 36-40% (which is a pretty good shooting day).  Long story short - - if they shoot well they will win.

    IC should just have Phil Barera shoot all the 3's -- with a 75% FG percentage he could average about 20 3's a GAME.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 08, 2010, 09:53:22 AM
    Bomber I gottcha, that makes sense.......  however Barrerra shooting the 3's LOL.. that was good........ ;D  That's what I like about this site...It's killing me RIT changing conferences.......I'm going to have to stick around and become a full Ducks fan just so I can remain part of the banter ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 08, 2010, 11:59:40 AM

    the Fisher IC game this weekend should be a great one. Fisher's D against Ithaca's high tempo offense. I think this Fisher team is a lot better than last year, but I don't know if they can beat IC. Too many stretches of not scoring for me to be comfortable.
    C
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2010, 12:03:13 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 08, 2010, 11:59:40 AM

    the Fisher IC game this weekend should be a great one. Fisher's D against Ithaca's high tempo offense. I think this Fisher team is a lot better than last year, but I don't know if they can beat IC. Too many stretches of not scoring for me to be comfortable.
    C

    Yeah but not scoring is pretty hard against Ithaca. They're something like 6th-worst in D-III in opponent FG percentage. It's going to be interesting to say the least. Cruz should be available for IC in this game as well, which helps the Bombers
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 08, 2010, 08:42:05 PM
    Ithaca doubling up Naz 50-25 with 45 seconds left in the 1st half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: the golden flyer on January 08, 2010, 09:13:41 PM
    Well this is embarrassing...very reminiscent of Naz's game at Ithaca during the regular season last year...Gotta bounce back for a tough game at Utica tomorrow...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 08, 2010, 09:16:36 PM
    ithaca BLOWING naz out -- getting a little revenge for last season's conference debacle -- 71-40 right now
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 08, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
    Sounds like the big game between Fisher and IC is set up. Sounds like IC is putting the wood to Naz. Fisher turned a 9 point lead at the half in a 28 point win at Utica tonight. Should be a good one tomorrow, but I think both teams will be headed to the E8 tournament.

    Fisher looked good tonight as they were able to score in bunches. No real stretches without scoring like the last few games. Not as strong on defense, but still plenty good to pull it out.

    Should be fun tomorrow.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 08, 2010, 09:47:51 PM
    Ithaca cruises over Nazareth 87-54.

    Bombers place4 players in double figs, led by Phil Barera's double-double of 24 pts and 12 rebounds. Not to be outdone Sean Rossi adds a double-double of his own with 12 pts and 12 assists. Andrei Oztemel scored 18 pts and grabbed 5 boards,while Jordan Marcus chipped in with 12 pts.

    Nazareth was led by Corey McAdam and Phil Scaffidi with 10 pts each. Bombers grabbed the lead at 4-2 and were never headed.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2010, 10:04:10 PM
    Bombers destroyed Nazareth tonight. Sean Rossi has 12 assists and was able to go to the hole at will. He was simply too quick to be stopped. Oztemel puts in 18 off the bench. Phil Barera dominates inside with 24 points (12-16 shooting) and 10 rebounds.

    McAdam gets shut down by Cruz, scoring just 10 points on 5-13 shooting.

    In the first half, Ithaca shot 72.4% from the floor and Nazareth was 28.1%.

    I know Naz has really committed to defense, but man, they can't play from behind at all. There's no up-tempo mode and McAdam seemed to be their only true scoring threat, although Stephens hit a pair of threes in the 2nd half.

    Ithaca was too quick. Their ability to penetrate and then make the right pass was just something Naz couldn't stop.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 09, 2010, 08:10:11 AM
    Corey McAdam "0" free throws?    WOW....... wouldn't have mattered, but coaches should look at this tape and see how that was done......IC has the best chance of beating Fisher AT Fisher this year.... I don't know what is going to happen, but I don't want miss this one....             My prediction...
    IC= 78
    Fisher = 69

    Sorry IC I probably put the Kiss of death on you.......but then again What do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Queens on January 09, 2010, 12:23:28 PM
    FROMAFAR,

    Whats your prediction for tomorrows Stevens vs Hartwick game? We all know you'll be in attendance  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2010, 04:23:59 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 09, 2010, 08:10:11 AM
    Corey McAdam "0" free throws?    WOW....... wouldn't have mattered, but coaches should look at this tape and see how that was done......IC has the best chance of beating Fisher AT Fisher this year.... I don't know what is going to happen, but I don't want miss this one....             My prediction...
    IC= 78
    Fisher = 69

    Sorry IC I probably put the Kiss of death on you.......but then again What do I know ;)

    Fisher all over IC 37-20...Bombers not playing defense or hitting shots...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 09, 2010, 04:38:13 PM
    Fisher all over the Bombers 49-27 at the half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on January 09, 2010, 06:14:21 PM
    2 comments 1) It is tough to win @ Fisher (statement of the obvious).  2) McAdam goes from attempting more FT's than the entire Uitica team (16) to none????? vs Ithaca?????   Somethings smells in Denmark....hehehe
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 09, 2010, 07:28:58 PM
    I just got home from the Fisher IC game and WOW, I did not expect that. I am sure the outcome was the product of Ithaca having a bad day, while Fisher had a good day, but IC did not belong on the floor with Fisher today. It looked like the JV playing the Varsity to be honest. It was suprising to see, since I expected Ithaca to be much better than they were today. They did not shoot it well, but I think a lot of that was some tighter D than IC had seen before. The Bomber fans that were saying this IC team does not play any D were right. It was not an impressive effort on that end of the floor.

    Fisher has been playing well the last few games, so I think they may have caught IC at the right time. It was fun to watch if you were a Fisher fan (me). Not so fun if you were, like my wife, pulling for IC. It was a quiet ride home.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 09, 2010, 11:06:03 PM
    Actually Queens, I won't be at the Stevens Hartwick game..Not back in the city until late tomorrow night. Prediction.... I already put the whammy on IC so I will lay off predictions either way.... Hartwick is tough and this is an important game for both teams.....Stevens needs to hold home court with Hartwick..  Hey if anyone gets to see that game give me a true analysis... Cyclone, haven't heard from you what's up, you usually have Stevens on the radar.

    Oh yea whats up with 16 free throws for McAdam????  Amazing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2010, 11:40:26 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 09, 2010, 07:28:58 PM
    I just got home from the Fisher IC game and WOW, I did not expect that. I am sure the outcome was the product of Ithaca having a bad day, while Fisher had a good day, but IC did not belong on the floor with Fisher today. It looked like the JV playing the Varsity to be honest. It was suprising to see, since I expected Ithaca to be much better than they were today. They did not shoot it well, but I think a lot of that was some tighter D than IC had seen before. The Bomber fans that were saying this IC team does not play any D were right. It was not an impressive effort on that end of the floor.

    Fisher has been playing well the last few games, so I think they may have caught IC at the right time. It was fun to watch if you were a Fisher fan (me). Not so fun if you were, like my wife, pulling for IC. It was a quiet ride home.

    IC was awful today. When the threes don't fall, things can go south quickly and the lack of a true center to get them high percentage shots is a killer. Hard to believe it was the same team that kicked Nazareth around for 40 minutes.

    I'm not too worried about IC. They're a year (and a center) away from being a truly elite team, and, as young as they are, this kind of thing can happen, especially on the road. They'll still win 17-20 games and be in the conf tourney most likely. And then, it's just a matter of  getting hot at the right time
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Queens on January 10, 2010, 01:54:37 AM
    FROMAFAR,

    I'll be there and will get you an indept, unbiased anaylsis of the game...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 10, 2010, 09:46:01 AM
    Thanks Queens..   Appears your a CUNY guy........I know I'll get all the details..... This RIT schedule is killing me.... no game for weeks, then we get hammerd and then sit again for awhile.........can't get into a flow.....hey maybe that will work, because we have been horrible. I think right now Fisher D and their bigs are the difference...... really the only team with a shot head to head is IC, however as Bomber said they need to hit those 3's, if they do they can win if not.... see yesterday.   Heard it's real cold down there........so much for global warming OH YEA I forgot it's now "climate change"... whatever works to soak up our money..........BUT what do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 10, 2010, 09:59:51 AM
    Any guesses on the Wendys Classic seedings? Fisher has to be in the running for the 1 seed, but Rochester is there as well. I think it will look like this:

    1) Fisher
    2) Rochester
    3)Brockport
    4) Naz
    5)Roberts
    6)Keuka
    7)RIT
    8)Geneseo

    I don't know anything about Roberts, or if Keuka is still in the tournament, but from what I know this is my best guess.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 11, 2010, 10:18:39 AM
    IC played their worst game of the year and Fisher has the early edge for conference supremacy.  I said IC needed to hit their 3's (7-28 = 25%) and they needed to rebound (outrebounded 55-32).  So clearly they did neither and they got blown out as a result of it. 

    Couple observations:

    IC has no transition defense.  No one stopped the ball the entire game and I would say Fisher had 20+ points from transition layups resulting from players not getting back and no one stopping the ball.

    IC isn't going to win many games with Marcus going 0-9 with 1 point.  He has been playing great this year and is in the top 15 in the country in scoring so my guess is just an off day combined with above-average defense.

    The offense looked stagnant at times.  This is the first time I've seen Ithaca since the alumni scrimmage but the offense wasn''t fluid and there seemed to be alot of dribbling by Rossi 30 feet away. They also had no fastbreak game.

    All of IC's 3's were contested and the majority were at least a foot or two behind the line.  Like I said earlier the offense had no continuity and many of the 3's were from about 25 feet and with a hand up.

    That being said its only one game and I expect a different result on South Hill.  IC has always struggled at Fisher (even last year they won but didn't play great) and have been blown out by 20+ on more than one occassion over the past few years.  So with the toughest conference game out of the way they still sit in pretty good position moving forward.  Hopefully they turn it around on the road against a slumping Utica squad Tuesday before a 4 game homestand (Alfred, Stevens, RIT, and Fisher).

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 11, 2010, 10:25:37 AM
    Chase...err Wendy's Classic seedings announced:

    1 Univ. of Rochester
    8 Geneseo

    4 Roberts Wesleyan
    5 Brockport

    3 Naz
    6 RIT

    2 Fisher
    7 Keuka
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 12, 2010, 07:26:17 AM
    I don't know if there are any Elmira fans on this board, but you guys deserve an attaboy for dismantling Clarkson.  Nice win and says something for the E-8. Maybe Clarkson was looking ahead ( I am a big believer in that effecting a team) to Cornell, but Elmira shows they can be dangerous.  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 12, 2010, 02:01:01 PM
    Can someone explain to me why u of r is the one seed over Fisher? I know. The records are the same but with fisher blowing out their last three opponents and beating RIT who beat u of r I am a little confused. I guess u of r gets the nod being who they are.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 12, 2010, 02:06:45 PM
    Upon further review I see u of r did beat Hobart, who beat fisher. So the RIT argument doesn't hold.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 12, 2010, 04:57:25 PM
    How did Will Cornett get player of the week honors? No offense to him, but 5ppg, 3rpg, 4apg and 1spg do not deserve POW honors at all.

    Chase Predictions :

    UR over Geneseo
    Brockport over RWC
    Naz over RIT
    Fisher of Keuka

    Looks like Battle for East Ave will happen a little earlier than expected.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on January 12, 2010, 06:05:37 PM
    Fromafar- Clarkson is an up and down team - who had been yo-yo ing that week both in scheduling and travel. They go to U of R and beat them in OT - then go home and beat Cortland (another solid win).  Get back on this bus to Elmira (probably a 5 hour trip) to play a 1-10 team that comes out and shoots something like 63% before looking to play in front of 4000 in what may be the most electric atmosphere of their careers vs Cornell (their 4th game in 8 days).  Kudos to Elmira though - that kind of shooting should scare anyone because Clarkson usually is a pretty decent team defensively.  It just goes to show that you have to play the games. But what do you or I know? ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 13, 2010, 05:57:00 AM
    OK...I'll say it.  Nice win for Utica last night.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 13, 2010, 08:46:42 AM
    With Age, as I said the looking ahead theory is dangerous......... Elmira came to play and despite their record, theuy play hard day in and day night. They are dangerous...

    Hey great win for Utica...... IC lives by the sword and dies by the sword... They got their 9 3's, but took 30 of them....... Horrible from the line as well. This game may mean something down the road.......... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 13, 2010, 08:48:09 AM
    Sorry for the typos, between meetings and of course this is important, LOL ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 13, 2010, 11:07:46 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 13, 2010, 08:46:42 AM
    With Age, as I said the looking ahead theory is dangerous......... Elmira came to play and despite their record, theuy play hard day in and day night. They are dangerous...

    Hey great win for Utica...... IC lives by the sword and dies by the sword... They got their 9 3's, but took 30 of them....... Horrible from the line as well. This game may mean something down the road.......... ;)

    Yes, bad from the line but so-so from 3-point range (30% isn't great but it didn't lose them the game).  They had an open 3 at the buzzer off a baseline out of bounds play and actually had two people WIDE OPEN.  Kudos to the coaching staff for drawing up a decent play but the shot just didn't fall.  Oztemel missed the shot but Jordan Marcus was wide open on the near side of the ball since his defender fell down.  Rossi didn't have his best game and only played about 20 minutes -- Maravich stepped up big down the stretch (depsite a bad shooting night) and hit a deep 3 with under 2 minutes left to cut into Utica's lead. 

    17 turnovers is a concern despite the uptempo play.  They need to cut that to around 10-12 to be successful. IC struggles to rebound but props yesterday on the boards - outrebounded them by 8.  Kudos to Cruz for crashing the glass this year.  Averaging around 6 a game and with his jumping ability he should be there (had 12 last night). 

    4 home games in a row (Alfred + Stevens this weekend) can get this team going again.  They need 2 wins this weekend to stay in contention for the regular season title.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 13, 2010, 12:30:07 PM
    Bomber, 30% from 3's is not good... look at it this way, they missed 21 three's.... If they were able to work a little harder for a higher % shot and made 2 of those, they win....They took 59 shots which means they took more 3's than 2's... they shot fairly well from 2, I think, Hey, I know that's not them, and they could have very easily have hit one of those, but that's why I say, live by the sword die by the sword. They have been successful so far, for the most part, so why change.... I agree... This weekend is important to them... Both Alfred and Stevens can be dangerous.........interesting games....... ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 13, 2010, 03:16:28 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 13, 2010, 12:30:07 PM
    Bomber, 30% from 3's is not good... look at it this way, they missed 21 three's.... If they were able to work a little harder for a higher % shot and made 2 of those, they win....They took 59 shots which means they took more 3's than 2's... they shot fairly well from 2, I think, Hey, I know that's not them, and they could have very easily have hit one of those, but that's why I say, live by the sword die by the sword. They have been successful so far, for the most part, so why change.... I agree... This weekend is important to them... Both Alfred and Stevens can be dangerous.........interesting games....... ;) 

    30% is certainly not good but it isn't terrible.  Their average on the season is 34% so its not too far off base.  I was just saying that's not where they lost the game.  They average 12 turnovers a game and shoot 73% from the line.  They had 17 turnovers and were 46% from the line.  I think we both have a legitimate point -- if they shot their 3 point % on the season they would have 3 more points and if they shot their ft % they would have 3 more points.  So we're both right!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 13, 2010, 07:51:45 PM
    Bomber your probably correct, it's six of one...... hopwever they did shoot I believe 65% from inside the 3, so they may have had a better chance taking a few more 2's, but what I am forgetting is how well Utica shot..... which has to count.... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 13, 2010, 10:31:50 PM
    Fisher overcame a hard fighting Keuka team and pulled away for a 24 point win tonight. It was not the smoothest performance for Fisher, but it was more than enough against on overmatched team.

    I was really suprised by a few scores here. Utica beating IC blew my mind. I did not see that coming. That one could be big for Utica down the stretch. I think it may come down to them and Stevens for the last spot in the tourny, so any game you can steal from the top teams is a big win.

    Also, RIT was able to beat NAZ by 17 tonight in the Wendy's Classic? That was suprising as well. Maybe RIT has it in them to make a run at the E8 tourny as well. Tough to win a game over a conference foe, and have it not count for much. Gives them confidence going forward tho.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 14, 2010, 02:54:02 AM
    Friday Consolation games and  Semifinals:


    Consolation games
    Brockport  vs Geneseo   1:30 PM
    Nazareth  vs Keuka        3:30                         


    Rochester  vs Roberts Wesleyan  6:15   
    RIT vs St. John Fisher  8:15 PM

    I'm thinking the Friday winners will be Brockport, Naz, Rochester, and Fisher.

    On Saturday
    Brockport over Naz
    Geneseo over Keuka
    Roberts Wesleyan over RIT
    Fisher over Rochester

    Anybody else with their thoughts?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 14, 2010, 09:18:06 AM
    I think RIT actually showed the best way to play NAZ. McAdams took 2 fouls shots I believe.........let him shoot, he's not  a great shooter... Not fouling him is good for saving at least 8-10 points a game. Also, NAZ shot horribly from 3..  Korinichak was in fould trouble, and that may have actually helped us... We need to cut our rotation down a bit, to get a flow...... Terry is playing more minutes which I think is good.  SJF CARDS.. that Utica win over IC doesn't effect just Utica and Stevens for the 4 spot... It affects 2 through 4. It now opens up the 2-4 spots with IC-STEVENS-RIT-UTICA-NAZ....5 teams for 3 spots.... IF RIT CAN SUSTAIN this sudden success ( one game)... I think all 5 of those teams can beat each other on any given night and all can lose to any team in this league............. Like I said a long time ago, this is an "ON ANY GIVEN NIGHT" situation this year...  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 14, 2010, 06:13:18 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 14, 2010, 09:18:06 AM
    I think RIT actually showed the best way to play NAZ. McAdams took 2 fouls shots I believe.........let him shoot, he's not  a great shooter... Not fouling him is good for saving at least 8-10 points a game. Also, NAZ shot horribly from 3..  Korinichak was in fould trouble, and that may have actually helped us... We need to cut our rotation down a bit, to get a flow...... Terry is playing more minutes which I think is good.  SJF CARDS.. that Utica win over IC doesn't effect just Utica and Stevens for the 4 spot... It affects 2 through 4. It now opens up the 2-4 spots with IC-STEVENS-RIT-UTICA-NAZ....5 teams for 3 spots.... IF RIT CAN SUSTAIN this sudden success ( one game)... I think all 5 of those teams can beat each other on any given night and all can lose to any team in this league............. Like I said a long time ago, this is an "ON ANY GIVEN NIGHT" situation this year...  ;)

    Yes mcadam isn't a great outside shooter but has to shoot some or else people will play him like Korinchak -- IC would literally pick him up at the foul line and give him anything outside of 15 feet all day long.  He shoots 35% for his career
    so that keeps people somewhat honest.

    http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20100113/SPORTS09/1130365/1007/SPORTS/Nazareth-s-McAdam-much-like-Fairport-coach-Fitch-

    There's a decent article about McAdam.  I didn't know he already has the 11th most assists in D3 history (705 to date).  Also he said in the article he wants to coach "in the big time".  He picked the right school to go to connection -wise at least with Jeff Van Gundy an alum.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 14, 2010, 06:41:45 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 14, 2010, 09:18:06 AM
    I think RIT actually showed the best way to play NAZ. McAdams took 2 fouls shots I believe.........let him shoot, he's not  a great shooter... Not fouling him is good for saving at least 8-10 points a game. Also, NAZ shot horribly from 3..  Korinichak was in fould trouble, and that may have actually helped us... We need to cut our rotation down a bit, to get a flow...... Terry is playing more minutes which I think is good.  SJF CARDS.. that Utica win over IC doesn't effect just Utica and Stevens for the 4 spot... It affects 2 through 4. It now opens up the 2-4 spots with IC-STEVENS-RIT-UTICA-NAZ....5 teams for 3 spots.... IF RIT CAN SUSTAIN this sudden success ( one game)... I think all 5 of those teams can beat each other on any given night and all can lose to any team in this league............. Like I said a long time ago, this is an "ON ANY GIVEN NIGHT" situation this year...  ;)

    A great point. I think what will be interesting with the final pairings is all the teams that probably feel, at this point in time, that they have a good shot at making the tourny, and winning a game in it. Don't forget Hartwick, who already has a couple wins in the league and played Fisher tough. This may be the homer in me, but I think Fisher, at this point, has established itself as the team to beat, but imagine a Fisher/IC matchup in the first round of the tourny. Some reward for winning the legue. I think Fromafar is right on. The UC game changes a lot of thoughts on the league.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 15, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
    Bombers set a school record with 18 three-pointers in a 108-69 romp over Alfred.

    Jordan Marcus hits eight and finishes with 31. Phil Barera goes for 19 and 14. Maravich throws in 14. Rossi has 10 assists.

    Stopera guns his was to 27, hitting 7 three-pointers, but Alfred simply couldn't keep up.

    Elsewhere, Nazareth has to rally to beat Keuka 72-65. Fisher pulls away from RIT at the 11 minute mark in the second half and wins 77-57.

    Nazareth is such an odd team. They looked so good early, but they're struggling right now.

    I still think it's a four horse race in the E8. As streaky as Ithaca can be, I think they've got too much firepower, and Stevens closing with IC, Elmira and RIT at home will be tough
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 16, 2010, 02:41:39 PM
    I agree bombers. IC is just too talented to not make the E8 tournament. I could see a few teams fighting for the last 2 spots tho. I think Stevens will get in, but I can see some very realistic scenarios where they do not get in as well. Utica, Stevens, Hartwick, and Naz are all there for 2 spots.

    I think it will be fun tonight wth Fisher and U of R for the Wendy's tournament. I am interested to see how Fisher can stay with a tough team like U of R. They have been cruising along lately but U of R will probably be the best team they play this regular season.

    Homer pick...Fisher by 7-10!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 16, 2010, 06:39:46 PM
    Bombers down 83-74 with 2:27 remaining. Rossi hits a layup, Otztemel buries a three pointer. Barera hits a layup. Stevens bricks two free throws. Rossi hits a layup. Marcus nails a jumper with five seconds to go. Game.

    Bombers stun Stevens 85-83. Oztemel has 14 and 10. Rossi has 16 and 11 assists. Marcus has 22 points and Will Gaskins gives 13 and a ton of energy off the bench. He's played really well the last two games and gives the Bombers a lot of athleticism and quick hands.

    I hate to pin the loss on any one player, but Simon Smith goes 4-14 from the line, including the final two misses. He's now just 41-85 from the stripe this season. It's something teams may be able to exploit if they have a guy who can give them fouls off the bench.

    Ithaca got lucky, no doubt. Teams won't go 9-20 from the line all season. Props go out to Ithaca's much maligned defense as they hold Stevens to just five points over the last 5:13.

    Bombers really kept their season afloat. A loss to Stevens would have put them only one game ahead of Hartwick and would have put a lot of pressure of a very young team. Tough win by a team that doesn't often have to win them tough.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 16, 2010, 09:34:30 PM
    I was not at the Fisher/U of R game tonight, but from the online broadcast it just seemed like Fisher could not knock down open looks. It was frustrating as a fan, because I felt like Fisher was better than U of R, they just did not get the ball in the bucket enough. Open looks, but a lot of missed layups and bad rebounding.

    Maybe not. Again, I was not there, so I don't know what it looked like. I just know this, from my time at Fisher, I would lose to any team in the E8 100 times before I can deal with a loss to U of R. I can not STAND losing to them. Unfortunately, you get used to it, with them being so good.

    Fisher was able to make it close at the end, but again, missing big free throws and missing chances to close it out, and Fisher just did not have it in em tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: BKPioneer on January 17, 2010, 12:38:27 PM
    I usually don't post negative stuff, but I have to get this off my chest. I'm a UC fan through and through. The performance of the teams under Connolly is flat out embarrassing.  I never agreed with that hire to begin with and he just proves why, that should have been Jeff Gorski's job hands down. No one likes playing for this guy and it shows in the teams effort on the court. He needs to leave or UC will again be the doormat of the E8. And for you guys thinking that UC will challenge for one of those four conference spots, we have no chance with this guys at reigns. He couldn't coach Kentucky to the E8 tourney. Thanks for letting me vent.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 17, 2010, 01:38:46 PM
    I was wondering on the Football board earlier if it was "okay" to call for a coaches job in Division III. I agree that you can see a drop in the performance (talent and effort) on the UC sideline, but I am not sure if it is that this new guy is so bad, or if Goodemout was so good?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 18, 2010, 02:18:03 PM
    Just over halfway through the year and into the heart of conference play, let's get some debate going. Who do we like for player/rookie/coach of the year in conference at least this far

    POY: Corey McAdam

    POY has a lot of good candidates: Blazek, McAdam, Marcus seem to top the list. I'd personally go with McAdam because the scoring and assist numbers are a bit better than Blazek, and Marcus is really just a scorer--a good one, but still. McAdam makes Naz's whole team go. No-one on SJF or Stevens seems to be having a standout statistical season individually.

    One dark horse, semi-homer pick: Phil Barera. 16-8 right now. If his scoring numbers go up just a little bit, it'd be interesting. Yeah, I know, I was the same guy who didn't think Carson deserved it over Burton last year, but (A) There's no guy like Burton this season and (B) 71% from the floor is kind of mind boggling. (Carson for example, was at 61% last season). I think he's a big time dark-horse, but again, you never know.

    ROY: Sean Rossi

    I can't imagine this one being terribly close. 11 points a game isn't a lot, but 8.38 assists is astounding and no-one else is even close. The team hasn't really missed a beat offensively despite graduating almost 2/3 of their scoring from last year.

    COY: Kornaker

    At least for now, Fisher's clearly the top team in the conference. No surprises there.

    Thoughts?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 18, 2010, 03:32:21 PM
    Updated Pool C rankings of the East Region from the Pool C board on the Multi-Regional Topics page.
    Includes all games through 1-17-10.
    Reg #       wp       owp      oowp    RPI     Nat.  Pool        Region  OVR  Conf.     Team
    E   001   0.800   0.609   0.534   0.6380   011   C   005     8-2    12-2   UAA      Rochester
    E   002   0.846   0.584   0.531   0.6364   012   A   C      11-2    12-2   SUNYAC   Oneonta State
    E   003   0.786   0.531   0.561   0.6023   031   A   C      11-3    12-3   E8       St. John Fisher
    E   004   0.714   0.546   0.576   0.5955   038   C   020    10-4    11-5   E8       Nazareth
    E   005   0.625   0.625   0.503   0.5946   040   C   021     5-3     8-4   SUNYAC   Brockport State
    E   006   0.692   0.565   0.555   0.5942   041   C   022     9-4    10-4   UAA      New York University
    E   007   0.750   0.551   0.520   0.5927   043   C   024     9-3    12-4   E8       Ithaca
    E   008   0.636   0.620   0.484   0.5904   045   C   025     7-4     8-5   SUNYAC   Plattsburgh State
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 18, 2010, 09:29:18 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 18, 2010, 02:18:03 PM
    Just over halfway through the year and into the heart of conference play, let's get some debate going. Who do we like for player/rookie/coach of the year in conference at least this far

    POY: Corey McAdam

    POY has a lot of good candidates: Blazek, McAdam, Marcus seem to top the list. I'd personally go with McAdam because the scoring and assist numbers are a bit better than Blazek, and Marcus is really just a scorer--a good one, but still. McAdam makes Naz's whole team go. No-one on SJF or Stevens seems to be having a standout statistical season individually.

    One dark horse, semi-homer pick: Phil Barera. 16-8 right now. If his scoring numbers go up just a little bit, it'd be interesting. Yeah, I know, I was the same guy who didn't think Carson deserved it over Burton last year, but (A) There's no guy like Burton this season and (B) 71% from the floor is kind of mind boggling. (Carson for example, was at 61% last season). I think he's a big time dark-horse, but again, you never know.

    ROY: Sean Rossi

    I can't imagine this one being terribly close. 11 points a game isn't a lot, but 8.38 assists is astounding and no-one else is even close. The team hasn't really missed a beat offensively despite graduating almost 2/3 of their scoring from last year.

    COY: Kornaker

    At least for now, Fisher's clearly the top team in the conference. No surprises there.

    Thoughts?


    I think that looks pretty good. This year seems a little more cut and dry than past years. I think the only rookie that can compete with Rossi for ROY is Norsen from Fisher. He seems to be growing into the position and can be dominant at times. He also has the head to head win on Rossi, but Rossi did outscore him in that game. It is a reach to say he is in the running with Rossi, but you have to reach to find another candidate.

    Player of the year is a tough one to call. McAdam is THE guy for Naz, but if Naz loses some games, and does not make the tourny, what then. No one for Fisher is the clear go to guy, because they share the ball fairly well, so that takes out basically takes everyone out of it. You might be able to make a case for Jordan Marcus with all his scoring. If he continues to score in bunches, and IC can finish first or second in the league he would have a strong case.

    Coach of the year seems like a run away to me at this point. If Fisher takes a nose dive like last year, and some team comes from behind to win the league, than that would change things of course. However, at this point, Kornaker is pulling away from the pack.

    I am excited for Fisher to get back into E8 play. With two games against Elmira, one against AU, and a bunch of the tough road games behind them, they are looking good. But after last years fall from 14-2, to a 17-10 finish, it is a cautious optimisim for me at this point. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 19, 2010, 12:01:18 AM
    If Fisher had beaten Rochester on Saturday I believe they would have moved very close to, if not into, the Top 25 poll this week. With so many teams ranked above them suffering 1 or 2 losses last week, a 3 win week for Fisher and a 13-2 record would have moved them into contention. After the Top Ten teams the voters are unsure where to place any of the next 25 or 30 schools. Unfortunately, a 12-3 record and 2-1 week is no better than most of the teams they were trying to climb over. If they can go 3-0 this week they're back in the running again.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 19, 2010, 10:19:08 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 18, 2010, 09:29:18 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 18, 2010, 02:18:03 PM
    Just over halfway through the year and into the heart of conference play, let's get some debate going. Who do we like for player/rookie/coach of the year in conference at least this far

    POY: Corey McAdam

    POY has a lot of good candidates: Blazek, McAdam, Marcus seem to top the list. I'd personally go with McAdam because the scoring and assist numbers are a bit better than Blazek, and Marcus is really just a scorer--a good one, but still. McAdam makes Naz's whole team go. No-one on SJF or Stevens seems to be having a standout statistical season individually.

    One dark horse, semi-homer pick: Phil Barera. 16-8 right now. If his scoring numbers go up just a little bit, it'd be interesting. Yeah, I know, I was the same guy who didn't think Carson deserved it over Burton last year, but (A) There's no guy like Burton this season and (B) 71% from the floor is kind of mind boggling. (Carson for example, was at 61% last season). I think he's a big time dark-horse, but again, you never know.

    ROY: Sean Rossi

    I can't imagine this one being terribly close. 11 points a game isn't a lot, but 8.38 assists is astounding and no-one else is even close. The team hasn't really missed a beat offensively despite graduating almost 2/3 of their scoring from last year.

    COY: Kornaker

    At least for now, Fisher's clearly the top team in the conference. No surprises there.

    Thoughts?


    I think that looks pretty good. This year seems a little more cut and dry than past years. I think the only rookie that can compete with Rossi for ROY is Norsen from Fisher. He seems to be growing into the position and can be dominant at times. He also has the head to head win on Rossi, but Rossi did outscore him in that game. It is a reach to say he is in the running with Rossi, but you have to reach to find another candidate.

    Player of the year is a tough one to call. McAdam is THE guy for Naz, but if Naz loses some games, and does not make the tourny, what then. No one for Fisher is the clear go to guy, because they share the ball fairly well, so that takes out basically takes everyone out of it. You might be able to make a case for Jordan Marcus with all his scoring. If he continues to score in bunches, and IC can finish first or second in the league he would have a strong case.

    Coach of the year seems like a run away to me at this point. If Fisher takes a nose dive like last year, and some team comes from behind to win the league, than that would change things of course. However, at this point, Kornaker is pulling away from the pack.

    I am excited for Fisher to get back into E8 play. With two games against Elmira, one against AU, and a bunch of the tough road games behind them, they are looking good. But after last years fall from 14-2, to a 17-10 finish, it is a cautious optimisim for me at this point. 

    The POY award is up for grabs with no one really separating themselves from the rest of the pack.  Last year was a 2 horse race but this year is up for grabs.  McAdam will most likely win because of his career accomplishments and Fisher's lack of a star player.  Fisher has a bunch of good players but no one star player to run away with the award.  IC has Marcus and Barera but their stats are inflated in that offense. Stevens and Hartwick, eh.  It has to be McAdam.

    ROY is Rossi hands down. He is 3rd in the nation in assists....and not just for rookies.

    COY could be Kornaker and I think Mullins has to be in the race as well.  With all IC lost the past year he has to be deserving of a mention even though IC stumbled a bit against Fisher/UC.  If they can finish with 3-4 losses I think him and his staff deserve it (and Fisher has at least 2 losses). 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 19, 2010, 11:26:27 AM
    Remember WHAT DO I KNOW...

    I think it is too early to tell on these awards....... Too much can happen between now and the end of the year, and a lot of questions not answered. While I know this means nothing, many fo the stats are watered down... for instance, Marcus hits for 40+ plus twice then has a 4 pt game, or something like that... Mc Adam has a lot of turnovers, but that never seems to matter? He should be judged on this years numbers not what he did over 4 years. While Rossi is having a good year assist wise, he has to be a little more careful with the ball, BUT I don't see too much else rookie wise.. but let's wait a bit here too. Coach of the year.... Kornaker is a good coach, we all agree. He did have eveyone back this year... so does that negate his coaching ability when it comes to COY..., I Don't  know..... If some team like a Hartwick OR Stevens who were picked 6 and 9 I believe pre-season, make the tourney may Hurley and McGuiness deserve some votes. I know right now, NO ONE FROM RIT deserves any wards, so I just want to go on record that I am not politicking for my Tigers. IC coach, Mullins should be considered if they can make some noise in the Tourney... If they make the tourney.. That's not agiven yet either.   So FROMAFAR (hey how's that PEP.. stole your gig) feels it's too early.....

    Questions to you guys.... Was losing Carson really that big a deal?

    Stevens losing Grey and Pasalaqua seem to be an addition rather than subtraction... What has made this team better and so dangerous this year.....

    Naz is a real mystery to me... hard to figure, up and down, even ina game let alone season.

    Alfred has fell to the Coco syndrome, one guy taking all the shots, I could avg. 21 pts a game shooting as much as Stoperra.

    RIT has to make noise immediately, and beat the Hartwicks, UC, IC's and Stevens to get back in... I really don't think they or anyone except MAYBE Fisher can do that... I beileve the 4th place team will be 8-8 and second place team will have at least 4 loses.   This ought to stir the juices a bit ;)

     


     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 11:54:46 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on January 19, 2010, 10:19:08 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 18, 2010, 09:29:18 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 18, 2010, 02:18:03 PM
    Just over halfway through the year and into the heart of conference play, let's get some debate going. Who do we like for player/rookie/coach of the year in conference at least this far

    POY: Corey McAdam

    POY has a lot of good candidates: Blazek, McAdam, Marcus seem to top the list. I'd personally go with McAdam because the scoring and assist numbers are a bit better than Blazek, and Marcus is really just a scorer--a good one, but still. McAdam makes Naz's whole team go. No-one on SJF or Stevens seems to be having a standout statistical season individually.

    One dark horse, semi-homer pick: Phil Barera. 16-8 right now. If his scoring numbers go up just a little bit, it'd be interesting. Yeah, I know, I was the same guy who didn't think Carson deserved it over Burton last year, but (A) There's no guy like Burton this season and (B) 71% from the floor is kind of mind boggling. (Carson for example, was at 61% last season). I think he's a big time dark-horse, but again, you never know.

    ROY: Sean Rossi

    I can't imagine this one being terribly close. 11 points a game isn't a lot, but 8.38 assists is astounding and no-one else is even close. The team hasn't really missed a beat offensively despite graduating almost 2/3 of their scoring from last year.

    COY: Kornaker

    At least for now, Fisher's clearly the top team in the conference. No surprises there.

    Thoughts?


    I think that looks pretty good. This year seems a little more cut and dry than past years. I think the only rookie that can compete with Rossi for ROY is Norsen from Fisher. He seems to be growing into the position and can be dominant at times. He also has the head to head win on Rossi, but Rossi did outscore him in that game. It is a reach to say he is in the running with Rossi, but you have to reach to find another candidate.

    Player of the year is a tough one to call. McAdam is THE guy for Naz, but if Naz loses some games, and does not make the tourny, what then. No one for Fisher is the clear go to guy, because they share the ball fairly well, so that takes out basically takes everyone out of it. You might be able to make a case for Jordan Marcus with all his scoring. If he continues to score in bunches, and IC can finish first or second in the league he would have a strong case.

    Coach of the year seems like a run away to me at this point. If Fisher takes a nose dive like last year, and some team comes from behind to win the league, than that would change things of course. However, at this point, Kornaker is pulling away from the pack.

    I am excited for Fisher to get back into E8 play. With two games against Elmira, one against AU, and a bunch of the tough road games behind them, they are looking good. But after last years fall from 14-2, to a 17-10 finish, it is a cautious optimisim for me at this point. 

    The POY award is up for grabs with no one really separating themselves from the rest of the pack.  Last year was a 2 horse race but this year is up for grabs.  McAdam will most likely win because of his career accomplishments and Fisher's lack of a star player.  Fisher has a bunch of good players but no one star player to run away with the award.  IC has Marcus and Barera but their stats are inflated in that offense. Stevens and Hartwick, eh.  It has to be McAdam.

    ROY is Rossi hands down. He is 3rd in the nation in assists....and not just for rookies.

    COY could be Kornaker and I think Mullins has to be in the race as well.  With all IC lost the past year he has to be deserving of a mention even though IC stumbled a bit against Fisher/UC.  If they can finish with 3-4 losses I think him and his staff deserve it (and Fisher has at least 2 losses). 

    Eh, the "stats are inflated" argument is weak, especially for Barera. When you're shooting 71% from the floor, you're going to score a lot of points, regardless of pace.

    Yes, the Bombers play at a fast pace, but it's not like they're Grinnell, which just fires up shots for 40 minutes and scores 96 points per game on 38% shooting. Ithaca is shooting 49% from the floor, which is 31st out of 398 teams in the NCAA. They also rank 21st in turnovers. It's actually a very efficient offense. The fast pace helps, as do the three-pointers, but the Bombers make their shots and hang on to the ball.

    I still think McAdam is the POY because he's more than just a straight shooter for Naz.

    Marcus' shooting percentage is right in line with McAdam's (46.7% to 45.5%)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 19, 2010, 12:25:27 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 11:54:46 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on January 19, 2010, 10:19:08 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 18, 2010, 09:29:18 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 18, 2010, 02:18:03 PM
    Just over halfway through the year and into the heart of conference play, let's get some debate going. Who do we like for player/rookie/coach of the year in conference at least this far

    POY: Corey McAdam

    POY has a lot of good candidates: Blazek, McAdam, Marcus seem to top the list. I'd personally go with McAdam because the scoring and assist numbers are a bit better than Blazek, and Marcus is really just a scorer--a good one, but still. McAdam makes Naz's whole team go. No-one on SJF or Stevens seems to be having a standout statistical season individually.

    One dark horse, semi-homer pick: Phil Barera. 16-8 right now. If his scoring numbers go up just a little bit, it'd be interesting. Yeah, I know, I was the same guy who didn't think Carson deserved it over Burton last year, but (A) There's no guy like Burton this season and (B) 71% from the floor is kind of mind boggling. (Carson for example, was at 61% last season). I think he's a big time dark-horse, but again, you never know.

    ROY: Sean Rossi

    I can't imagine this one being terribly close. 11 points a game isn't a lot, but 8.38 assists is astounding and no-one else is even close. The team hasn't really missed a beat offensively despite graduating almost 2/3 of their scoring from last year.

    COY: Kornaker

    At least for now, Fisher's clearly the top team in the conference. No surprises there.

    Thoughts?


    I think that looks pretty good. This year seems a little more cut and dry than past years. I think the only rookie that can compete with Rossi for ROY is Norsen from Fisher. He seems to be growing into the position and can be dominant at times. He also has the head to head win on Rossi, but Rossi did outscore him in that game. It is a reach to say he is in the running with Rossi, but you have to reach to find another candidate.

    Player of the year is a tough one to call. McAdam is THE guy for Naz, but if Naz loses some games, and does not make the tourny, what then. No one for Fisher is the clear go to guy, because they share the ball fairly well, so that takes out basically takes everyone out of it. You might be able to make a case for Jordan Marcus with all his scoring. If he continues to score in bunches, and IC can finish first or second in the league he would have a strong case.

    Coach of the year seems like a run away to me at this point. If Fisher takes a nose dive like last year, and some team comes from behind to win the league, than that would change things of course. However, at this point, Kornaker is pulling away from the pack.

    I am excited for Fisher to get back into E8 play. With two games against Elmira, one against AU, and a bunch of the tough road games behind them, they are looking good. But after last years fall from 14-2, to a 17-10 finish, it is a cautious optimisim for me at this point. 

    The POY award is up for grabs with no one really separating themselves from the rest of the pack.  Last year was a 2 horse race but this year is up for grabs.  McAdam will most likely win because of his career accomplishments and Fisher's lack of a star player.  Fisher has a bunch of good players but no one star player to run away with the award.  IC has Marcus and Barera but their stats are inflated in that offense. Stevens and Hartwick, eh.  It has to be McAdam.

    ROY is Rossi hands down. He is 3rd in the nation in assists....and not just for rookies.

    COY could be Kornaker and I think Mullins has to be in the race as well.  With all IC lost the past year he has to be deserving of a mention even though IC stumbled a bit against Fisher/UC.  If they can finish with 3-4 losses I think him and his staff deserve it (and Fisher has at least 2 losses). 

    Eh, the "stats are inflated" argument is weak, especially for Barera. When you're shooting 71% from the floor, you're going to score a lot of points, regardless of pace.

    Yes, the Bombers play at a fast pace, but it's not like they're Grinnell, which just fires up shots for 40 minutes and scores 96 points per game on 38% shooting. Ithaca is shooting 49% from the floor, which is 31st out of 398 teams in the NCAA. They also rank 21st in turnovers. It's actually a very efficient offense. The fast pace helps, as do the three-pointers, but the Bombers make their shots and hang on to the ball.

    I still think McAdam is the POY because he's more than just a straight shooter for Naz.

    Marcus' shooting percentage is right in line with McAdam's (46.7% to 45.5%)

    IC has taken 1,039 shots over 16 games = 65 shots per game
    Naz has taken 950 shots over 16 games = 59 shots per game
    Fisher has taken 808 shots over 15 games = 54 shots per game

    So IC takes about 10% more shots than Naz and 20% more than Fisher.  More shots = more points/rebounds. 

    But this shouldn't take anything away from either of them I'm just pointing it out for comparison.  Barera is having an excellent year and if there was a breakout player of the year he would get it hands down. He battled against Bostic for 2 years in practice and its paying dividends. 71% is flat out ridiculous.  Marcus is probably having the best sophomore year in IC history and I think he should be pre-season All-America next year. But I don't think you can argue the stats are inflated some.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 19, 2010, 12:57:01 PM
    You know, just for fun I looked at the overall stats for the e-8.... You guys know, I think Greco makes that Stevens team go, and Cyclone udeersatnds moer than anyone since he see's Stevens a lot and saw this kid before College./.. I think, while he doesn't get mentioned too much with the big number guys, here's what I see

    Assists... 4 th
    Frre throws.. 1st
    Steals... 3rd
    3 pt %..  13
    3 pt made 10
    Scoring 13
    aasist/To ratio 5

    Pretty good year, after a year off.......

    Again.... not bad, and probably giving Stevens a chance...What do I know ;)



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 19, 2010, 02:59:46 PM
    RIT/IC tonight at Ben Light.

    IC is on a 2 game win streak (Alfred, Stevens) after losing two in a row on the road (Fisher,Utica).

    RIT is as streaky as ever - beat Naz by 20 then lost to Fisher and Roberts by 20 in the Wendy's Classic.  If they're going to make any sort of run at the #4 spot this is almost a must win.  A loss puts them 5 games back in the win column to Stevens and 4 back overall. 

    Hopefully the RIT team that lost to Roberts/Fisher by 20 shows up instead of the one that won at U of R and beat Naz by 20.  This team is dangerous so hopefully IC doesn't see their record and take them lightly.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 19, 2010, 07:35:44 PM
    Hopefully Fisher is ready to go tonight against Elmira. Fisher is more talented, but EC has shown the ability to shoot the ball. You never know after the Chase/Wendy's tourny. Teams are tired, and there is a let down at times after a run at a championship.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 19, 2010, 08:30:37 PM
    RIT has doubled up Ithaca 40-20 with 4:19 to go in the 1st half. Don't think anyone saw that coming.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 09:01:33 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 19, 2010, 08:30:37 PM
    RIT has doubled up Ithaca 40-20 with 4:19 to go in the 1st half. Don't think anyone saw that coming.

    Bombers put together an out and out embarrassing performance tonight.

    I'll renege on my earlier prediction: The Bombers may not make the E8 tournament. Let's be honest, the only reason they beat Stevens was because the Ducks missed 11 free throws. This will drop them to 5-3 in conference. Fisher will kill them again; 5-4. Stevens will beat them up there; 5-5. They'll beat Elmira, Alfred and probably Hartwick; 8-5. They'll lose up at RIT, where they don't tend to play well; 8-6. And they'll probably split the Naz/Utica; 9-7.

    Will that be enough? Possibly. I doubt Alfred, Utica and Elmira will do anything. Hartwick would be a long shot to only lose 6. But RIT's even in the loss column with IC and would have the win in Ithaca. They've proven they can beat Naz and hung with Stevens. There's no reason to think they couldn't get hot, beat IC again, and take the 4th seed.

    But even if the Bombers make the tournament, they won't do anything there. They've constantly laid eggs in the conference tourney, and if last year's team couldn't do it, this one won't.

    I know it's a young team, but it's disheartening. Basketball's never been big here, and now, when they finally seem to have the talent to make things happen, they blow it every chance they get. I guess I'll concentrate on wrestling from here on out
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 19, 2010, 09:26:06 PM
    Ithaca down 23 at 58-35 has gone on a 25-6 run and now trail 64-60 with 6:25 left to play.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 09:30:20 PM
    Tied at 68...3:12 to go
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 09:31:55 PM
    Unreal, Bombers up 70-68...2:49 to go
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 09:35:17 PM
    74-74, 1:46 to go. Bombers on the line...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 19, 2010, 09:35:29 PM
    Fisher didn't play a complete game, but they did more than enough to beat Elmira. Fisher opened the game on a 21-4 run. They let Utica cut it down to 12 on a few occasions in the first half, but had a few spurts in the 2nd half, and ended up winning 75-47.

    Keep me posted on that Ithaca score. I can not believe that game is even close.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 09:37:03 PM
    75-74 IC...Korinchak fouls out, Bombers shooting two with 1:38 to go. Cruz Rivas is a man possessed...33 points, 10 rebounds
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 09:40:42 PM
    79-77 Bombers...under a minute to go...unbelievable...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 09:41:29 PM
    21 seconds to go, IC up 2...on the line for two shots. Maravich hits one of two...80-77 Bombers...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 19, 2010, 09:42:32 PM
    Tried to get live stats from the Brockport St. web site for their game against Fredonia tonight. They have a link to click on and when you do they gave you the live stats from the Fisher-Elmira game. I didn't know they had become St. John Brockport.

    Ithaca comes all the way back and beats RIT 81-80. WOW!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 19, 2010, 09:43:46 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 09:01:33 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 19, 2010, 08:30:37 PM
    RIT has doubled up Ithaca 40-20 with 4:19 to go in the 1st half. Don't think anyone saw that coming.

    Bombers put together an out and out embarrassing performance tonight.

    I'll renege on my earlier prediction: The Bombers may not make the E8 tournament. Let's be honest, the only reason they beat Stevens was because the Ducks missed 11 free throws. This will drop them to 5-3 in conference. Fisher will kill them again; 5-4. Stevens will beat them up there; 5-5. They'll beat Elmira, Alfred and probably Hartwick; 8-5. They'll lose up at RIT, where they don't tend to play well; 8-6. And they'll probably split the Naz/Utica; 9-7.

    Will that be enough? Possibly. I doubt Alfred, Utica and Elmira will do anything. Hartwick would be a long shot to only lose 6. But RIT's even in the loss column with IC and would have the win in Ithaca. They've proven they can beat Naz and hung with Stevens. There's no reason to think they couldn't get hot, beat IC again, and take the 4th seed.

    But even if the Bombers make the tournament, they won't do anything there. They've constantly laid eggs in the conference tourney, and if last year's team couldn't do it, this one won't.

    I know it's a young team, but it's disheartening. Basketball's never been big here, and now, when they finally seem to have the talent to make things happen, they blow it every chance they get. I guess I'll concentrate on wrestling from here on out

    Please do.  RIT is a solid team and won @ the #1 ranked team in the region (UR). They were picked #2 in the league for a reason and have been very streaky.  They can beat anyone and lose to anyone so playing IC well is not a surprise, especially when IC goes cold from the floor (3-15? from 3 point range in the first half).  And don't choke removing the foot from your mouth.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 10:01:59 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on January 19, 2010, 09:43:46 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 09:01:33 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 19, 2010, 08:30:37 PM
    RIT has doubled up Ithaca 40-20 with 4:19 to go in the 1st half. Don't think anyone saw that coming.

    Bombers put together an out and out embarrassing performance tonight.

    I'll renege on my earlier prediction: The Bombers may not make the E8 tournament. Let's be honest, the only reason they beat Stevens was because the Ducks missed 11 free throws. This will drop them to 5-3 in conference. Fisher will kill them again; 5-4. Stevens will beat them up there; 5-5. They'll beat Elmira, Alfred and probably Hartwick; 8-5. They'll lose up at RIT, where they don't tend to play well; 8-6. And they'll probably split the Naz/Utica; 9-7.

    Will that be enough? Possibly. I doubt Alfred, Utica and Elmira will do anything. Hartwick would be a long shot to only lose 6. But RIT's even in the loss column with IC and would have the win in Ithaca. They've proven they can beat Naz and hung with Stevens. There's no reason to think they couldn't get hot, beat IC again, and take the 4th seed.

    But even if the Bombers make the tournament, they won't do anything there. They've constantly laid eggs in the conference tourney, and if last year's team couldn't do it, this one won't.

    I know it's a young team, but it's disheartening. Basketball's never been big here, and now, when they finally seem to have the talent to make things happen, they blow it every chance they get. I guess I'll concentrate on wrestling from here on out

    Please do.  RIT is a solid team and won @ the #1 ranked team in the region (UR). They were picked #2 in the league for a reason and have been very streaky.  They can beat anyone and lose to anyone so playing IC well is not a surprise, especially when IC goes cold from the floor (3-15? from 3 point range in the first half).  And don't choke removing the foot from your mouth.

    You know, as great as that comeback was, RIT was still a 4-8 team and the Bombers trailed by 23 with 16 minutes to go on their home court. You can't count on making a comeback like that (or down nine with 2:30 to go in every game). The Bombers are good, but they're making a habit of digging themselves massive holes, and there's going to come a time when you can't rely on teams missing 10 free throws and blowing 23-point leads

    Yes, they've made two great comebacks, but they failed when they got down 16 in the second half to Utica and they never made a serious run at Fisher after getting down a ton early. You can't keep getting down like that and expect to come back and win all the time. The Bombers have proven that. What's wrong with being critical of a team when they play poorly? You think the coaches thought "Down 23 with 16 minutes to go, right where we want them"?

    As for my comments on the history the Bombers have in the E8 tournament, feel free to direct me to something I said that was factually incorrect. Have the Bombers ever won an E8 tournament game? One and done every year as far as I can recall. They haven't won a NCAA postseason game since 1993. Again, what did I say that was factually incorrect? It's not like I'm not supportive of the team when they win. But why can't people be critical of poor play?

    Ok, yes, saying they'll lose in this E8 tournament was unfair, but again, they don't have a great history in these things. Last year's team WAS better, probably the best team in school history, and they were playing at home. Right now, it looks like IC may be playing at Fisher, and considering the Cardinals blew them away up there last time, why wouldn't that be a disquieting sign?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 19, 2010, 10:29:17 PM
    Hey Bomber, you think you have problems.........how would you like to be on this side of the fence..... basically playing for ahh pride the rest of the way... maybe spoiler....This may be the worst it has ever been for the Tigers.... I speak in disgust..... I am going to sleep, I hope :'(
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 10:43:34 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 19, 2010, 10:29:17 PM
    Hey Bomber, you think you have problems.........how would you like to be on this side of the fence..... basically playing for ahh pride the rest of the way... maybe spoiler....This may be the worst it has ever been for the Tigers.... I speak in disgust..... I am going to sleep, I hope :'(

    Yeah, that was a crusher, no doubt. The number of fouls RIT picked up was staggering. The Bombers had a 31-12 edge in free throws. RIT was up 20 and the Bombers hit eight straight free throws in a span of two minutes to cut it to 12. The Bomber were in the bonus with 13 minutes to go and the double bonus with 8:29 to go. I don't know if the Bombers were just too quick or the Tigers undisciplined, but that was just crazy.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 11:15:26 PM
    Look, my earlier post was probably out of line in parts, but this Bomber team is all over the map. In the same game they can look like world-beaters and then terrible. Part of it is certainly the youth, but it's been a season long trend for them:

    1) 10 point lead against a very good Oneonta team with 3:56 to go, and the Bombers can't hang on

    2) The next game they trail Cortland-who is currently 7-6-by 10 points with 12 minutes to go before a great comeback

    3) Against St. Lawrence--currently 6-8--Ithaca has a 16 point lead at home with 10 minutes to go. 7 minutes later, they're down by one. They hold on for the victory

    4) Against Roanoke--currently 6-10--the Bombers are up 17 with 17:38 to go but trail by two with just 5:33 to go before pulling it out

    5) Against Case Western, Ithaca is up 15 with 6:37 to go only to see the lead trimmed to one with 11 seconds left but manage to hold on

    6) Even against Elmira, not exactly a great team, Ithaca sees a 20-point lead dwindle to five in the second half.

    7) There's the 16-point second half deficit to a 6-8 Utica team that they cut to three before the comeback fell just short

    8) And the one that was pulled off against a good Stevens team

    9) And now this against a 4-9 RIT squad...

    It's a wildly inconsistent team. They've had blowouts, and been blown out. They make great comebacks against good teams but they allow them against bad teams. They jump all over good teams, and get pounded early by weak ones. You never know what you're going to see from Ithaca. Are you going to see a team that doesn't play defense? Or doesn't allow a basket for six minutes? Will they shoot the lights out? Will they hit nothing? They're 13-4 and could probably be 15-2. They could also probably be 8-9. They could go to the Sweet 16 or lose in the conference semis.

    Yes, the record is very good. But what does it mean? Is there a more Jekyll and Hyde team in the E8?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 20, 2010, 09:34:44 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 11:15:26 PM
    Look, my earlier post was probably out of line in parts, but this Bomber team is all over the map. In the same game they can look like world-beaters and then terrible. Part of it is certainly the youth, but it's been a season long trend for them:

    1) 10 point lead against a very good Oneonta team with 3:56 to go, and the Bombers can't hang on

    2) The next game they trail Cortland-who is currently 7-6-by 10 points with 12 minutes to go before a great comeback

    3) Against St. Lawrence--currently 6-8--Ithaca has a 16 point lead at home with 10 minutes to go. 7 minutes later, they're down by one. They hold on for the victory

    4) Against Roanoke--currently 6-10--the Bombers are up 17 with 17:38 to go but trail by two with just 5:33 to go before pulling it out

    5) Against Case Western, Ithaca is up 15 with 6:37 to go only to see the lead trimmed to one with 11 seconds left but manage to hold on

    6) Even against Elmira, not exactly a great team, Ithaca sees a 20-point lead dwindle to five in the second half.

    7) There's the 16-point second half deficit to a 6-8 Utica team that they cut to three before the comeback fell just short

    8) And the one that was pulled off against a good Stevens team

    9) And now this against a 4-9 RIT squad...

    It's a wildly inconsistent team. They've had blowouts, and been blown out. They make great comebacks against good teams but they allow them against bad teams. They jump all over good teams, and get pounded early by weak ones. You never know what you're going to see from Ithaca. Are you going to see a team that doesn't play defense? Or doesn't allow a basket for six minutes? Will they shoot the lights out? Will they hit nothing? They're 13-4 and could probably be 15-2. They could also probably be 8-9. They could go to the Sweet 16 or lose in the conference semis.

    Yes, the record is very good. But what does it mean? Is there a more Jekyll and Hyde team in the E8?

    This is a testament to the style they are playing.  Shooting around 25-30 3's  a game will result in some long dry spells and some hot streaks.  Yes they have been inconsistent at times but I will take inconsistency and 13-4 over consistency and 9-8 any day of the week.  Despite the wild swings in games, they have beaten the teams they should beat and lost the games they should lose (with the exception of Utica).  They were the underdogs against Amherst, Oneonta, and Fisher.  Everyone else I would say they have been favored against.  So despite the wild in-game swings I think the team has been fairly consistent.

    I forgot who said it but its believed a team has 5 great games 5 below average games and 20 average games.  That being said I would say IC has played great 2-3 times so far (Alfred, Naz) and poorly 2-3 times (Fisher, Utica). All the rest have been average.  I don't count yesterday because RIT is a good team that already has beaten arguably the best team in the region (plus IC won the game).   You're looking too far into things.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 20, 2010, 10:01:00 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on January 20, 2010, 09:34:44 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2010, 11:15:26 PM
    Look, my earlier post was probably out of line in parts, but this Bomber team is all over the map. In the same game they can look like world-beaters and then terrible. Part of it is certainly the youth, but it's been a season long trend for them:

    1) 10 point lead against a very good Oneonta team with 3:56 to go, and the Bombers can't hang on

    2) The next game they trail Cortland-who is currently 7-6-by 10 points with 12 minutes to go before a great comeback

    3) Against St. Lawrence--currently 6-8--Ithaca has a 16 point lead at home with 10 minutes to go. 7 minutes later, they're down by one. They hold on for the victory

    4) Against Roanoke--currently 6-10--the Bombers are up 17 with 17:38 to go but trail by two with just 5:33 to go before pulling it out

    5) Against Case Western, Ithaca is up 15 with 6:37 to go only to see the lead trimmed to one with 11 seconds left but manage to hold on

    6) Even against Elmira, not exactly a great team, Ithaca sees a 20-point lead dwindle to five in the second half.

    7) There's the 16-point second half deficit to a 6-8 Utica team that they cut to three before the comeback fell just short

    8) And the one that was pulled off against a good Stevens team

    9) And now this against a 4-9 RIT squad...

    It's a wildly inconsistent team. They've had blowouts, and been blown out. They make great comebacks against good teams but they allow them against bad teams. They jump all over good teams, and get pounded early by weak ones. You never know what you're going to see from Ithaca. Are you going to see a team that doesn't play defense? Or doesn't allow a basket for six minutes? Will they shoot the lights out? Will they hit nothing? They're 13-4 and could probably be 15-2. They could also probably be 8-9. They could go to the Sweet 16 or lose in the conference semis.

    Yes, the record is very good. But what does it mean? Is there a more Jekyll and Hyde team in the E8?

    This is a testament to the style they are playing.  Shooting around 25-30 3's  a game will result in some long dry spells and some hot streaks.  Yes they have been inconsistent at times but I will take inconsistency and 13-4 over consistency and 9-8 any day of the week.  Despite the wild swings in games, they have beaten the teams they should beat and lost the games they should lose (with the exception of Utica).  They were the underdogs against Amherst, Oneonta, and Fisher.  Everyone else I would say they have been favored against.  So despite the wild in-game swings I think the team has been fairly consistent.

    I forgot who said it but its believed a team has 5 great games 5 below average games and 20 average games.  That being said I would say IC has played great 2-3 times so far (Alfred, Naz) and poorly 2-3 times (Fisher, Utica). All the rest have been average.  I don't count yesterday because RIT is a good team that already has beaten arguably the best team in the region (plus IC won the game).   You're looking too far into things.


    Alright, that's fair enough. Like I said, it's just one of those things where at times, you shake your head with the team because you don't know what you're going to get. Watching the first half, you wonder how IC got to 13-4. Watching the second, you wonder how they ever lost

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 20, 2010, 10:13:11 AM
    Everything you Bomber brothers say makes sense, except RIT is not a good team. While we beat R U... I think that can be attributed to good PLAYERS, but IF you say good TEAM... no....a good TEAM,as you guys profess, and I agree is consistent. RIT is not a good team..... I still think it's the absence of a floor general, as they say. You know I strongly beleive in that, and they remind me of last years Stevens team... Some good players but totaly un-organized on the court. As far as IC goes.... you guys seem to be both right, in away. The are certainly inconsistent during the game but consistently win... which is the important thisng.... However, I have to agree with 798891 being cautious...while they have righted the ship during the games, for the most part, it's like Sweet Pea on the girders, ( remember the baby in Popeye cartoons who was crawling on girders, and wghen just about to fall the next girder comes by.....one of these days the girder may not be there. These next two week obviously will give us a better pictire of how this is all going to work out... As an RIT fan, it will take a miracle for us to get in...I think Naz will slip a little, and it appears UC may have shot themselves in the foot.  Again too early to tell... but those in contention are becoming less...WHAT DO ;)    
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 20, 2010, 10:44:17 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 20, 2010, 10:13:11 AM
    Everything you Bomber brothers say makes sense, except RIT is not a good team. While we beat R U... I think that can be attributed to good PLAYERS, but IF you say good TEAM... no....a good TEAM,as you guys profess, and I agree is consistent. RIT is not a good team..... I still think it's the absence of a floor general, as they say. You know I strongly beleive in that, and they remind me of last years Stevens team... Some good players but totaly un-organized on the court. As far as IC goes.... you guys seem to be both right, in away. The are certainly inconsistent during the game but consistently win... which is the important thisng.... However, I have to agree with 798891 being cautious...while they have righted the ship during the games, for the most part, it's like Sweet Pea on the girders, ( remember the baby in Popeye cartoons who was crawling on girders, and wghen just about to fall the next girder comes by.....one of these days the girder may not be there. These next two week obviously will give us a better pictire of how this is all going to work out... As an RIT fan, it will take a miracle for us to get in...I think Naz will slip a little, and it appears UC may have shot themselves in the foot.  Again too early to tell... but those in contention are becoming less...WHAT DO ;)    

    Ok....substitute good with talented + underachieving !

    And looking back at the past three years RIT/IC have had some battles...

    2 years ago IC trails by 9 (?) with about 1:30 to go before Sean Leahy nails 3 3's in the final minute including the game winning buzzer beater to win by 1 in front of a packed RIT gym.

    Last year IC trails by 7 (?) with about a minute ago but ties it up with 2 Burton FT's before Korinchak nails a half courter to win by 3 (despite the shot coming about 0.2 seconds late ;))

    This year IC trails by 25 at home against RIT before storming back  to win by one in the last minute...

    It has developed into a pretty good rivalry recently and I hope they can schedule some non-conference games in once RIT bails from the E9.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 20, 2010, 01:29:55 PM
    If I were an IC fan I would want to play us too.......The only win we have on that list is one that came after the buzzer......good... talented, which ever way you want, but yes underachieving... But how do we know RIT is talented... based on what...last year? We had Carson, more of dominant player than I gave him credit for...yea we can see talented players out their, but if they lose is it because they don't play together or maybe they are not as talented as we think...... I will say this, they look confused on offense, and the bigs do not play as bigs.. they can shoot and like to shoot, but we need some inside presence. We need a couple of wins, some sort of jump start........ ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 20, 2010, 02:38:27 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 20, 2010, 01:29:55 PM
    If I were an IC fan I would want to play us too.......The only win we have on that list is one that came after the buzzer......good... talented, which ever way you want, but yes underachieving... But how do we know RIT is talented... based on what...last year? We had Carson, more of dominant player than I gave him credit for...yea we can see talented players out their, but if they lose is it because they don't play together or maybe they are not as talented as we think...... I will say this, they look confused on offense, and the bigs do not play as bigs.. they can shoot and like to shoot, but we need some inside presence. We need a couple of wins, some sort of jump start........ ;)   

    If you can get out to a 34-9 lead at the 9:28 mark of the first half an the road against a 12-4 team, you've gotta have some talent...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 20, 2010, 02:52:43 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 20, 2010, 02:38:27 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 20, 2010, 01:29:55 PM
    If I were an IC fan I would want to play us too.......The only win we have on that list is one that came after the buzzer......good... talented, which ever way you want, but yes underachieving... But how do we know RIT is talented... based on what...last year? We had Carson, more of dominant player than I gave him credit for...yea we can see talented players out their, but if they lose is it because they don't play together or maybe they are not as talented as we think...... I will say this, they look confused on offense, and the bigs do not play as bigs.. they can shoot and like to shoot, but we need some inside presence. We need a couple of wins, some sort of jump start........ ;)   

    If you can get out to a 34-9 lead at the 9:28 mark of the first half an the road against a 12-4 team, you've gotta have some talent...

    or somebody's not playing defense....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 20, 2010, 04:25:31 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on January 20, 2010, 02:52:43 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 20, 2010, 02:38:27 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 20, 2010, 01:29:55 PM
    If I were an IC fan I would want to play us too.......The only win we have on that list is one that came after the buzzer......good... talented, which ever way you want, but yes underachieving... But how do we know RIT is talented... based on what...last year? We had Carson, more of dominant player than I gave him credit for...yea we can see talented players out their, but if they lose is it because they don't play together or maybe they are not as talented as we think...... I will say this, they look confused on offense, and the bigs do not play as bigs.. they can shoot and like to shoot, but we need some inside presence. We need a couple of wins, some sort of jump start........ ;)   

    If you can get out to a 34-9 lead at the 9:28 mark of the first half an the road against a 12-4 team, you've gotta have some talent...

    or somebody's not playing defense....

    True, defense is optional quite a bit at IC, but what about the 9 points? Against a team averaging 87 a game? The Bombers were awful in those opening 10 1/2 minutes, but RIT was hitting jumpers and threes. They were contesting shots from IC. For at least those 10 minutes, they looked pretty good. The last 16 is another story
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Queens on January 21, 2010, 10:44:25 AM
    Fromafar,

    Did you see the stevens game last night? I saw they went into OT.  Do you have a recap?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 21, 2010, 10:46:57 AM
    Bomber, we have basketball players, and quite few have talent... but they have to play together. To do that it takes coaching ( McVean is a good coach in my opininion) , BUT the players have to be somewhat coordinated, hence my believe in a Cerebral point guard. Last year we had Carson who kept the game plan in place.....albeit he was a center. We don't have that.  Teams without a "floor general" are in trouble.  In that game there was the combination of a team on fire, and another cold as ice early....we scored those 34 points because we were on and IC really doesn't have a clue on defense. No disrespect, but I have seen them.......But they have a lot of answers on offense, and that gets them by. The only problem I see IC may have is, a basketball game is a game of runs. Against a team that plays very good defense, like Fisher, and Stevens..If either of those teams can sustain a consistent offense against you, you will have trouble, because as you guys have shown, your a team of runs, and good defenses, usually keep runs minimal, BUT what do I know.... hey I rather be in your position than mine.... Our defense is spotty, and we just look confused on offense. One thing you are not is "confused on offense. ;)  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 21, 2010, 12:36:37 PM
    Quote from: BKPioneer on January 17, 2010, 12:38:27 PM
    I usually don't post negative stuff, but I have to get this off my chest. I'm a UC fan through and through. The performance of the teams under Connolly is flat out embarrassing.  I never agreed with that hire to begin with and he just proves why, that should have been Jeff Gorski's job hands down. No one likes playing for this guy and it shows in the teams effort on the court. He needs to leave or UC will again be the doormat of the E8. And for you guys thinking that UC will challenge for one of those four conference spots, we have no chance with this guys at reigns. He couldn't coach Kentucky to the E8 tourney. Thanks for letting me vent.

    If you didn't like Connolly last week you certainly aren't going to like him any better after last night's beatdown.  SUNYIT destroys Utica 76-42 at Utica.  Utica is as inconsistent as RIT.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 21, 2010, 01:06:27 PM
    Yea that Utica loss really doesn't bode well for the E-8... makes us look bad...  But Stevens handed a good Baruch team a loss in their house last night.......... Baruch just lost to #21 Patterson in O.T I believe this week... There are a lot of tell tale games coming up this weekend.......  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 21, 2010, 10:49:01 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 21, 2010, 01:06:27 PM
    Yea that Utica loss really doesn't bode well for the E-8... makes us look bad...  But Stevens handed a good Baruch team a loss in their house last night.......... Baruch just lost to #21 Patterson in O.T I believe this week... There are a lot of tell tale games coming up this weekend.......  ;)

    Ugh, it makes pretty much everyone look bad. IC's loss to them just looks worse by the day...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 22, 2010, 10:14:23 AM
    Weird scheduling has IC facing Fisher twice in under 2 weeks and RIT twice in 6 days   ???

    With Fisher coming to IC tonight this is Ithaca's last shot at claiming a 3rd straight regular season E9 title.  Fisher would have essentially a 4 game lead over IC (3 in the standings + the tiebreaker) and could stumble a few times (Naz currently only one loss) and still claim the crown.

    A few keys to tonight's game:

    IC must rebound.  They got hammered on the glass @ Fisher (outrebounded by 20+) and Fisher just seemed to want it more.  Two particular plays come to mind - Newman twice missed a three pointer short only to have no one box him out and he got both rebounds back and Fisher scored.  IC needs to play with more of an urgency and do a better job on the glass.

    Since Fisher controlled the glass on the defensive end they were able to get out and get easy transition buckets.  IC either needs to score more (obviously), which will force Fisher to take it out and slow their break or do a better job containing SJF's fastbreak. 

    Jordan Marcus cannot have 1 point and expect IC to beat this team.  Fisher did a good job limiting him 2weeks ago but I doubt they can do it in Ithaca.

    Fisher is probably the slight favorite but I expect IC to come out fired up for this game.  Hopefully Cruz can carry over his monster game from Tuesday and IC can play the way they did in the second half against RIT! Gooo Bombers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 22, 2010, 10:45:12 AM
    maybe it is just me but I have not seen anything in league play that would lead me to say Fisher is a slight favorite tonight against IC.Ithaca has struggled with Utica, RIT, and Stevens. And IC got thumped by Fisher two weeks ago. I am not saying IC can not or will not win. I am just saying if. Vegas made odds on this game fisher  would probably be a big favorite.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 22, 2010, 11:16:20 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 22, 2010, 10:45:12 AM
    maybe it is just me but I have not seen anything in league play that would lead me to say Fisher is a slight favorite tonight against IC.Ithaca has struggled with Utica, RIT, and Stevens. And IC got thumped by Fisher two weeks ago. I am not saying IC can not or will not win. I am just saying if. Vegas made odds on this game fisher  would probably be a big favorite.

    What do you define as a big favorite? I'm saying slight = a 5-6 point favorite. 

    I know Fisher killed them 2 weeks ago but IC is still a 13-4 team and Fisher is still a 13-3 team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 22, 2010, 11:31:49 AM
    I know IC is a very good team, and I am sure they will be right in the game tonight. However, if were looking at what the two teams have done so far,especially the last 2 or 3 weeks I would say Fisher is more like an 8-10 point favorite. fisher has clearly been the better team since league play started to get into full swing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 22, 2010, 11:56:38 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 22, 2010, 11:31:49 AM
    I know IC is a very good team, and I am sure they will be right in the game tonight. However, if were looking at what the two teams have done so far,especially the last 2 or 3 weeks I would say Fisher is more like an 8-10 point favorite. fisher has clearly been the better team since league play started to get into full swing.

    Ok so your line is 9....  I'm taking IC - we shall see :o
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 22, 2010, 12:22:04 PM
    Should be a lot of fun on south hill tonight. Again, I don't think Fisher will run away in this at all. The exact opposite. I expect a tight game decided by 5 or less. My 9 point spread is just where I would set the line on past performances this year.          Anybody going to the game tonight?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 22, 2010, 12:45:53 PM
    The Bombers have to start out better. Getting down 34-9 is not an option.

    Regarding the rebounding, one of the things IC does, especially when down, is race down the court and fire up a quick 3. The problem is, they really don't have anyone down low to get a rebound, so if they miss, there's no hope.

    I think Ithaca could give Fisher a game if they get in a rhythm early. The Cardinals don't strike me as a team that will cough up a big lead and if they get down, they become so reliant on the three-pointers. Marcus is no doubt a big factor, but Cruz-Rivas needs to have a big game too. It's tough because he's usually guarding the other team's best player, but I think he needs to get up around 20.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 22, 2010, 01:26:20 PM
    One thing I do Know are spreads on games.   They are not made to define the amount of points one team is better than the other.... BELIEVE ME.  The spread is made to get parity ( how's that magic) in betting. The people taking the action ( bookmakers and Vegas) get 10% of the losers bet. They wan't the same amount bet on both teams, therefore they have no interest in who wins or loses. They get 10%.   You will notice when there is a spread which looks too easy FOR INSTANCE..... Indy 2.5 over JETS  a few weeks ago, and Buffalo 8.5 over Colts a few weeks ago..... if anyones life depended on it no one was betting the JETS or Buffalo...( forget the fact that the Colts were not playing their best) no one would have the nerve to bet Jets or Billls... with those points..anyone who bet,  bet Colts and lost..........  In that case the spread was not made for parity, it was made to make $ on the bet rather than the 10% on loss. TRUST me on this...............Now the matter at hand, the spread you guys are talking about tonight is how much better is one team than the other........OR what would be a spread that would create 50% of people to pick one way and 50% the other. So we take the following into consideration...   Fisher beat IC handily already...However game was at Fisher ( which is a big home factor, more-so than Ithaca being home). IC loses to Utica, which says a lot as well.  So if I was going to make a spread that would create all those without an AX to grind (no Fisher or IC guys) to have to think long and hard.... I would say the line should be Fisher -5.   That does not mean Fisher is going to win by 5 it just means it would be hard for anyone to feel confident in their bet......Now if I hear back that 90% of you think Fisher is at least 5 points better than IC tonight, then if there was betting on the game ( I know there isn't) then my theory would say bet IC. ;)

    Now who do I think is going to win... This is where What do I know comes in....I believe Fisher will win, but have no idea by how many.....Trust me on how spreads are made.... I KNOW...... ;)   

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 22, 2010, 02:44:26 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 22, 2010, 01:26:20 PM
    One thing I do Know are spreads on games.   They are not made to define the amount of points one team is better than the other.... BELIEVE ME.  The spread is made to get parity ( how's that magic) in betting.    

    FROMAFAR,
    Good job. Noah Webster is no longer rolling over in his grave!!  ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on January 22, 2010, 03:59:56 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 22, 2010, 12:45:53 PM

    Regarding the rebounding, one of the things IC does, especially when down, is race down the court and fire up a quick 3. The problem is, they really don't have anyone down low to get a rebound, so if they miss, there's no hope.


    Yeah, the difference is they don't have a Bostic to clean up the messes (or the boards) from the 3-point jacks like they have had in the past couple seasons.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 22, 2010, 10:48:18 PM
    A good win for Fisher tonight. Ithaca played much better today than they did two weeks ago, and they shot the ball a lot better as well. Fisher jumped out early, held off an Ithaca run that saw IC take the lead at one point in the first half. Fisher took a 9 point lead at half time, and started the second half on a bit of a run to get the lead up to 17 at one point. Fisher basically held on from there.

    They went on a long stretch in the 2nd half without scoring, and Ithaca hit a 3 to cut the lead down to 8 I think, but Fisher hit their free throws down the stretch to win by 10.

    Ithaca shot the ball well today, but still had trouble with some rebounding. Fisher was also able get good shots in the paint to control the game. Ithaca really chucks up some threes. Sometimes it seems way to quick and looks a little unsettled. They can hit a lot of jumpers, but in the second half when Fisher went through the long stretch without scoring, IC was also cold, and it felt like the lead was at 12 for about an hour.

    A win is a win if you are Fisher, and at winning at IC is always nice.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: the golden flyer on January 22, 2010, 10:58:19 PM
    Naz defeats a pesky Elmira team 77-67. Elmira hung with Naz pretty much the whole game. The difference was McAdam who went for 39 in a game which he got to the basket at will it seemed. Elmira took the air out of the ball and was able to stay within striking distance for most of the game. A win is a win at this time of the year and this was a potential "trap game" before the Battle of the Beaks coming up on Tuesday...Naz has their work cut out for them at Fisher but should be a good one!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 23, 2010, 12:10:12 AM
    Speaking of Trap games, Fisher really needs to watch out for Hartwick tomorrow. A decent sub 500 team, wedged in between Ithaca (on the road), and Naz on Tuesday.

    At least it is at Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Go Naz on January 23, 2010, 12:48:20 AM
    Really impressive outing for Corey tonight.  Elmira could not find any way to keep him out of the paint.  It will be interesting to see how Fisher tries to guard him Tuesday night.  With the exception of the recent egg layed by Nazareth at Ithaca, McAdam has a pretty solid record of showing up in big games.  Fisher has a lot of different guys they can throw at him over the course of the game however.  Naz could get in trouble if Fisher wears Corey out.  Corletta or Stephens will have to step up Tuesday night and take some of the offensive load off Corey's shoulders.  Gotta love a good Naz-Fisher battle.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on January 23, 2010, 09:36:09 AM
    Think this is the weekend either of the winless teams gets one?

    Alfred has a shot against Utica, and RIT plays Elmira, so we might see them pick up their first league wins. It would make their contest next week more interesting if they both lost their second game this weekend, but I think they both have a chance to pull one out.

    Pep, what's happening with the Saxons? They had a decent non-league record and you said Wellman's recruiting was solid. Did they lose some guys at break?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 23, 2010, 12:34:28 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 22, 2010, 12:22:04 PM
    Should be a lot of fun on south hill tonight. Again, I don't think Fisher will run away in this at all. The exact opposite. I expect a tight game decided by 5 or less. My 9 point spread is just where I would set the line on past performances this year.          Anybody going to the game tonight?

    I guess your line was better.  Props for that.  You said IC shot better than last game though, which isn't necessarily true.  They were 7-30 (23%) and 36% overall yesterday and 7-28 (25%) and 33% overall.  So by the stats they were equally bad in both games.  I didn't see this game but it looks like they hung around this time because they closed the rebounding gap and Fisher shot poorly from the line (55%).  Anyone see the game?

    Also Fisher's bench outscored IC's 29-6.  Newman doesn't start or was this a one time only deal? IC needs to get more from their bench to be successful, especially against the elite teams.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 23, 2010, 02:38:27 PM
    I didn't see the Fisher game, but the running stats, I THINK, show Newman scoring first basket, YET Bomber is co ;)rrect, the lineup shows him Not starting??? Am I missing something.?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 23, 2010, 05:50:51 PM
    I was at the Fisher/IC game last night and Newman did start (and score the first basket). I probably should have looked at the stats before I said IC shot the ball better. That was just my impression. I was at both Fisher IC games, and last nights game was much more competitive and tight as the score would indicate. The issue was in doubt until the final few moments.

    Good win for Fisher today over Hartwick. Fisher was able to avoid the trap game and needs to get ready for a huge game against Naz on Tuesday. That should be a great one.

    Any other scores from the E8 gone final yet?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUSaxons33344 on January 24, 2010, 02:38:28 PM
    Saxons up 37-30 at half v Utica.  Distributing the ball and looking good defensively as well.  Patt is 3-4 behind the arc and the rest of the team is shooting well.  Let's see if it can continue and they can close this one out!!  Go SAXONS!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUSaxons33344 on January 24, 2010, 03:36:32 PM
    The Saxons hang on for a 61-60 victory.  A lot of missed opportunities for Utica at the end.  Abrams missed a wide open lay-up on an inbounds play with 12 seconds to go.  A lot of missed free throws by the Saxons also that Utica could not capitalize on.  Hard fought game with Goodman leading the way for Utica 29 pts and 8 boards. 

    LETS GO SAXONS!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 24, 2010, 04:58:33 PM
    Congrats to the Saxons on getting their first league win. That program has brighter days ahead of them.

    What has happened to Utica? I thought they would be a much more competitive team than they are this year. They were such a quality team just a few years ago, and now it seems they have really dropped off the table. What gives?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 25, 2010, 09:23:27 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 24, 2010, 04:58:33 PM
    Congrats to the Saxons on getting their first league win. That program has brighter days ahead of them.

    What has happened to Utica? I thought they would be a much more competitive team than they are this year. They were such a quality team just a few years ago, and now it seems they have really dropped off the table. What gives?

    Goodemote was an excellent coach and they had a ton of talent lost over the past 3-4 years (Ray Bryant, Cichon, Herring).  Goodemote brought those players in and they haven't found replacements yet, which is not an easy accomplishment.  Pat Goodman is solid and so is Patterson but they don't have any All-American caliber players.  Don't forget the team that went deep into the NCAAs had an All-American in Bryant, all-east region in Cichon, and E8 rookie of the year in Doug Herring.  Those teams were stacked and they haven't been able to reload since.  Also, there has been some griping about the new coach on these boards as well but I don't know him.

    Does anyone know what Goodemote is up to?  I know he left coaching to start a family but wasn't sure if he ever got back into baskeball.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 25, 2010, 01:39:04 PM
    Hey PEP where are you? Hope your OK.... I think Alfred will win 4-5 games before its over.. If Stoppera stops trying to be McAdams and flopping everytime he drives and lets the younger guys take some shots they can be dangerous.... Look at Stevens game, he was 3-18 from the field, somebody shut him down cold....But I believe if he tones it down, they can beat Elmira, Hartwick, RIT :'(, and maybe even NAZ.......what do think PEP, what do you know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 25, 2010, 09:25:34 PM
    Huge game tomorrow with Fisher and Naz meeting for the first time this year. With a win, Fisher can really put themselves into a good position for regular season title. They will have a 2 game lead on every team in the league if they can win tomorrow. It is never easy playing Naz, but I will take Fisher by 10.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on January 25, 2010, 11:43:17 PM
    utica lost goodemount as the coach right? thats it right there
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 26, 2010, 12:09:58 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 25, 2010, 09:25:34 PM
    Huge game tomorrow with Fisher and Naz meeting for the first time this year. With a win, Fisher can really put themselves into a good position for regular season title. They will have a 2 game lead on every team in the league if they can win tomorrow. It is never easy playing Naz, but I will take Fisher by 10.

    Fisher can definitely distance itself from the pack today.  A win today and they can pretty much wrap up the regular season title.  They would have a 2 game lead and only have 2 games left against the top 4 in the league (home vs Stevens and @ Naz). They swept Ithaca and swept Hartwick.  All the other games they play are against teams with one win in the conference and are pretty much out of the playoff race. 

    What are Fisher's chances of a pool C bid if they don't win the E8 tournament? They're sitting at 15-3 now and have a pretty good shot of 21-4 or 20-5.  I think its safe to say everyone else is out of contention unless they run the table in the regular season (Naz, Ithaca, Stevens with 4-5 losses each).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 26, 2010, 04:23:50 PM
    I think Fisher can afford one more loss and still get in. If they lose in the E8 tourny, and are 21 or 22 and 4 I think they can get a pool C bid. I would not want to risk much more than that.
    One thing that can hurt them is that they lost to two of the three best teams they have played in Desales and U of R.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 26, 2010, 06:33:25 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 26, 2010, 04:23:50 PM
    I think Fisher can afford one more loss and still get in. If they lose in the E8 tourny, and are 21 or 22 and 4 I think they can get a pool C bid. I would not want to risk much more than that.
    One thing that can hurt them is that they lost to two of the three best teams they have played in Desales and U of R.

    But at least they were "good losses". Would hurt a lot more if it was like Rochester's loss to 6-9 RIT or Ithaca's loss to 6-10 Utica. Fisher's is currently ranked #2 in the East Region on the Pool C board, behind Oneonta and ahead of Rochester. Rochester would get the 15th Pool C bid if the bids were handed out right now. So Fisher's in good shape
    and unless they revert to a stretch run that resembes last year's 2-7 finish they should get in. I think they could lose 3 more games (2 reg. season, 1 E8 tourney)  and would still get in with a 20-6 or 21-6 log. Looking at the other teams in the East I don't see anybody who's probably going to end up with a better record other than Medaille. SUNYAC and LL teams are beating up on each other. Rochester will lose at least 2 more games, possibly as many as 4, and Brockport, currently 4th in the East Region, has 6 of their last 10 conference games on the road, as does #1 Oneonta.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUSaxons33344 on January 26, 2010, 08:53:56 PM
    Rit up 32-20 on Alfred at the half....18-2 RIT early on...5 point spurt in the last 5 seconds to make it a 12 point game by AU....Just inside halfcourt buzzer beater by Ron Smith to end the half...  RIT looks good on D..Saxons can't get anything going...  Lets hope (for my sanity's sake) they can turn it around with a good start to the 2nd half.

    GO SAXONS!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUSaxons33344 on January 26, 2010, 09:45:01 PM
    Rit wins 58-45.... AU couldn't get anything going.... Low scoring game like most of the games v RIT usually are.  Testament to good D or bad O??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 26, 2010, 10:15:58 PM
    Fisher did themselves a lot of favors tonight with a hard fought win over Naz, 80-75. Naz was a lot better than I had anticiapated. McAdam is an absolute stud, really hard to stop and he passes the ball really well. Their big man was playing toe to toe with both of Fisher's big men, if not outplaying them. And they really seemed to out-size Fisher at every position.

    Fisher was able to hit some big shots down the stretch, and win a tough game. Big performance by Newman and Gettings when they needed it most. Very big win, as Fisher really put a firm grip on the #1 seed
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 27, 2010, 02:15:15 PM
    Tigers early start last night kind of did Alfred in, Korinchak, and Terry had solid games and we got to the line a bit more than usual.  Good sign.. Alfred only 3 assists and I think hit one 3 ??? Thats a start... I know I am hoping against hope, and maybe McVean is already working toward next year...  Used everyone lats night... But I'm keeping the door open........Hoping 8 wins can get in............with some tie breaker help, although I ma not sure if tie breakers will go our way EVEN IF we win 8........ ;D  I didn't see the NAZ FISHER game... looks like it was good one Naz plays them again, at NAZ.. But Fisher doesn't look like anyone can beat them, so it may not mean anything....  Looks like 2-5 hopefully 6 is still in question..........BUT ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 27, 2010, 06:08:59 PM
    Fisher does look strong at the moment. They have been able to work their way through the first run of the league with out many real tight games, but they have some tough hurdles ahead. Naz was impressive last night, and having to play them one or two more times will be tough. Also, they may have to play Ithaca again, and I would not sleep on Stevens either.

    I think Fisher has the big time inside track on winning the #1 seed, but I still think any of the top 3 or 4 teams have a chance to win the AQ. Hopefully, for us Fisher fans, Fisher has done, and can do, enough to win a pool C if they do not win the tournament.

    Tough to see any other teams winning a Pool C bid from the E8 with things as they are now. IC or Naz, if they win out could be in some contention, but some tough losses earlier will makek it hard for them to make the NCAA's without winning the E8 tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on January 27, 2010, 07:12:10 PM
    Regarding the Naz @ Fisher game...

    Really impressed w/Gettings. Yeah, he doesn't have a midrange or 3pt shot, but he can get in the lane and finish in traffic (even around bigs). He played well - just gotta cut down on those 6 turnovers.

    Not so impressed w/Newman. Yeah, he's solid, but nothing special. He can't really shoot. It seemed every time he got in the lane he came to a jump stop, didn't shoot, looked around, pivoted a few times, and then kicked it out. Never was forcing help or creating shots for anyone else. He had 13 pts, and 6 of those came in the last 2-3 minutes from the line (gotta give him credit though for hitting the FTs down the stretch).

    McAdam played great despite an off shooting night (10-22). He had to take a lot more 3s than he normally would (2-9...simple math, take away his 3pt shooting and he's 8-13 from the field - which is great.). I think he needs more offensive help around him. Scaffidi had a great game (17pts, 7-15 from field) but he needs Corletta (12 pts, 5-12) and Stephens (5pts, 2-10) to score more.

    Fisher bench - 20 pts, 11rbs. Naz bench - 4 pts 5rbs.

    Fisher definitely is sitting pretty for that #1 seed now - just got to stay focused and not have any slip-ups!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 28, 2010, 08:36:37 AM
    I know you guys think I'm nuts, so let me confirm that. We have Utica and Ithaca this weekend... obviously must wins, but if we can win both, I think we are still alive. I'm hoping this team pulls together and the talent (which we do have), transforms into team play.... Korinchak needs to get to the line... ( he has to penetrate more).. I need big games from Harder and Terry, the rest should fall into place. We have Fisher I think Tuesday... NOW if we could pull that one off as well, maybe I am really nuts, but ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 28, 2010, 09:31:26 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 28, 2010, 08:36:37 AM
    I know you guys think I'm nuts, so let me confirm that. We have Utica and Ithaca this weekend... obviously must wins, but if we can win both, I think we are still alive. I'm hoping this team pulls together and the talent (which we do have), transforms into team play.... Korinchak needs to get to the line... ( he has to penetrate more).. I need big games from Harder and Terry, the rest should fall into place. We have Fisher I think Tuesday... NOW if we could pull that one off as well, maybe I am really nuts, but ;)

    No, I was going to post yesterday that RIT still controls their own destiny.  They are only 2 games back in the loss column to the 3rd/4th place teams and play each of them.  The problem is whether or not they can actually win these games - which I don't think is true. You said it yourself they haven't played together and they didn't necessarily turn the ship around against Elmira and Alfred.  They have 6 wins so far this whole season and I think its a lot to ask to get at least 6 in the next 9 games when they have to play 5 teams ahead of them in the standings (2 on the road).  They play teams tough and have a few quality wins but I don't think they have the consistency to put together a string like this.  Essentially they are down 4 games with 9 to play so unless IC/Stevens channels their inner 2008? New York Mets I don't see RIT making it....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 28, 2010, 09:37:08 AM
    Bomber you could have least given me an hour of hope......Hey one at a time, Utica first, if we lose that then we are finished, I THINK ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 28, 2010, 11:15:03 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 28, 2010, 09:37:08 AM
    Bomber you could have least given me an hour of hope......Hey one at a time, Utica first, if we lose that then we are finished, I THINK ;D

    Hey I said its in their hands...Win 7-9 of their remaining games and they'll definitely make it!  I didn't realize how big a loss that IC game was last week -- it must have been a tough one to swallow.  Not only did they blow a 25 point lead but they could be within 2 games of playoffs and possibly 1 if they won again this weekend at home....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 28, 2010, 11:36:24 AM
    Yea, it was big both ways, it would have cost you guys big if it went the other way.   Have we ever seen so many games go from one extrenme to the other as we've seen this year. Many leads blown, OR many deficits made up.. I know e wdon't play great D, and IC plays great "o".... I think the only reason you guys are last in D is because you hoist them up so fast, you give the other guys more trips..............kind like "AIR CORYELL"  Chargers years ago.......... ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 28, 2010, 07:36:02 PM
    So, I am having a hard time placing this Fisher team against the quality teams we have seen in this league in the past. I don't think they are anywhere near as good as the Sean O'Brien teams or even the Dan Mueller/Beigle team that went to the Sweet 16, but I can not remember any of those teams going 10-0 in the league.

    Is the league down this year, compared to those years? Or is the FIsher team better than I am giving them credit for. I don't remember any teams in the league back a few years ago, apart from Utica, that would have been a way better team than Ithaca or Naz.

    I am just having a little trouble finding what my expectations are.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on January 29, 2010, 07:54:06 AM
    The O'Brien led Sweet Sixteen team in 04-05 was undefeated until the NCAA's. 

    they must have been undefeated in the league for the entire season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 29, 2010, 12:11:18 PM
    Quote from: thebear on January 29, 2010, 07:54:06 AM
    The O'Brien led Sweet Sixteen team in 04-05 was undefeated until the NCAA's.  

    they must have been undefeated in the league for the entire season.


    I am ashamed. I forgot all about the undefeated team from 04-05. Yes that team was undefeated in the league. Compared to the other Fisher teams of the past few years, where does this one rank? I still think that the 26-4 team the following year was better than the undefeated team, but they were both better than this team in my opinion. How far can a team like this Fisher team go? Sweet 16?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 29, 2010, 03:45:42 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 29, 2010, 12:11:18 PM
    Quote from: thebear on January 29, 2010, 07:54:06 AM
    The O'Brien led Sweet Sixteen team in 04-05 was undefeated until the NCAA's.  

    they must have been undefeated in the league for the entire season.


    I am ashamed. I forgot all about the undefeated team from 04-05. Yes that team was undefeated in the league. Compared to the other Fisher teams of the past few years, where does this one rank? I still think that the 26-4 team the following year was better than the undefeated team, but they were both better than this team in my opinion. How far can a team like this Fisher team go? Sweet 16?

    Sweet 16 is a possibility, but where the 1st and 2nd round games are played will have a lot of bearing on the outcome. Fisher needs to finish with a flourish and there's a reasonable chance they may host. If Medaille grabs a Pool A bid, that along with their outstanding  record and win percentage, might give them the edge. Plus the fact that Medaille was dancing last year and got sent down to John Carroll may have the committee favoring them this year for a home game. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: the golden flyer on January 29, 2010, 06:39:55 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 28, 2010, 07:36:02 PM
    So, I am having a hard time placing this Fisher team against the quality teams we have seen in this league in the past. I don't think they are anywhere near as good as the Sean O'Brien teams or even the Dan Mueller/Beigle team that went to the Sweet 16, but I can not remember any of those teams going 10-0 in the league.

    Is the league down this year, compared to those years? Or is the FIsher team better than I am giving them credit for. I don't remember any teams in the league back a few years ago, apart from Utica, that would have been a way better team than Ithaca or Naz.

    I am just having a little trouble finding what my expectations are.

    Watching the E8 over the last few years, I feel this Fisher team is very solid, very well could be best team in region (sorry Medaille, but their schedule is very weak) with maybe U of R being the only team better. After seeing them play a few games this year I think the biggest difference between this year's team and the past few years is that they lack a true post presence(i.e. McSweeney, Sidney, beigel, etc.) I think this year's Fisher team is very good but if I were to compare them to the past Fisher teams that went to NCAAs in recent years, I am not sure if they are quite as good for that reason. However, defensively you could make a case that is better than any Fisher team in year past. I would agree that Fisher could win a couple games in NCAAs, especially if they do host a first/second round games....With that being said, I also believe that the E8 doesn't have a lot of parity this year. Last year the E8 was dominated by Ithaca for the most part but after that, was very balanced with a lot of teams jockeying for position down the stretch for the conference tournament. This year I think there are 4 teams fighting for the remaining 3 spots.....

    As for tonights slate of E8 games...

    Stevens @  Fisher - Big game between #1 and #3, this game is bigger for Stevens especially if they want to stay on pace with the other top teams for post season play. Stevens hasn't faired to well with these long road trips since joining the E8. Tough place to play at Fisher, with one of nations best defenses....Fisher 65 Stevens 56

    Alfred @ Naz- Naz coming off a tough loss in the Battle of the Beaks...can't have a let down. Alfred not a pushover by any means...Naz 81 Alfred 65

    RIT @ Utica- A must win game for RIT if they want to make a run ( which i think they still can FROMAFAR). In a similar position to Naz last year when they were 2-5 and they made conference tourney. RIT grinds out this road game 63 to 57

    Elmira @ Hartwick- I think this game will be a lot closer than expected. Elmira can shoot the ball well from beyond the arc and I think they can hang around for most of the game. I think their defense will give way to defeat in the end however...  Hartwick 78 Elmira 68
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUSaxons33344 on January 29, 2010, 09:58:28 PM
    Quote from: the golden flyer on January 29, 2010, 06:39:55 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 28, 2010, 07:36:02 PM
    So, I am having a hard time placing this Fisher team against the quality teams we have seen in this league in the past. I don't think they are anywhere near as good as the Sean O'Brien teams or even the Dan Mueller/Beigle team that went to the Sweet 16, but I can not remember any of those teams going 10-0 in the league.

    Is the league down this year, compared to those years? Or is the FIsher team better than I am giving them credit for. I don't remember any teams in the league back a few years ago, apart from Utica, that would have been a way better team than Ithaca or Naz.

    I am just having a little trouble finding what my expectations are.

    Watching the E8 over the last few years, I feel this Fisher team is very solid, very well could be best team in region (sorry Medaille, but their schedule is very weak) with maybe U of R being the only team better. After seeing them play a few games this year I think the biggest difference between this year's team and the past few years is that they lack a true post presence(i.e. McSweeney, Sidney, beigel, etc.) I think this year's Fisher team is very good but if I were to compare them to the past Fisher teams that went to NCAAs in recent years, I am not sure if they are quite as good for that reason. However, defensively you could make a case that is better than any Fisher team in year past. I would agree that Fisher could win a couple games in NCAAs, especially if they do host a first/second round games....With that being said, I also believe that the E8 doesn't have a lot of parity this year. Last year the E8 was dominated by Ithaca for the most part but after that, was very balanced with a lot of teams jockeying for position down the stretch for the conference tournament. This year I think there are 4 teams fighting for the remaining 3 spots.....

    As for tonights slate of E8 games...

    Stevens @  Fisher - Big game between #1 and #3, this game is bigger for Stevens especially if they want to stay on pace with the other top teams for post season play. Stevens hasn't faired to well with these long road trips since joining the E8. Tough place to play at Fisher, with one of nations best defenses....Fisher 65 Stevens 56

    Alfred @ Naz- Naz coming off a tough loss in the Battle of the Beaks...can't have a let down. Alfred not a pushover by any means...Naz 81 Alfred 65

    RIT @ Utica- A must win game for RIT if they want to make a run ( which i think they still can FROMAFAR). In a similar position to Naz last year when they were 2-5 and they made conference tourney. RIT grinds out this road game 63 to 57

    Elmira @ Hartwick- I think this game will be a lot closer than expected. Elmira can shoot the ball well from beyond the arc and I think they can hang around for most of the game. I think their defense will give way to defeat in the end however...  Hartwick 78 Elmira 68

    There are a lot of "beaks" in the Empire 8 -- Ducks, Soaring Eagles, Golden Flyers, Cardinals....just throwing it out there, making an observation.

    But Naz took care of my Saxons 72-62....close at half and tied late.. Naz made their free throws and hit a couple clutch shots.  McAdam looks strong as always and that 6'11" kid had 2 or 3 dunks. (6'11" at D3 level??? did he transfer fom a bigger program or something)...Corletta played well for Naz as well.

    Had a few freshman play well for Alfred -- Curran, Costello, Bobo and Mormon all looked good and made some plays.  Bright future for that group.  Kwiecien had 15 or 17...Patt and Stopera played well also.

    On to the next one...Need a W!!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on January 29, 2010, 11:00:41 PM
    Alas - Naz's 6-11 kid played at Potsdam last year and didn't play much.  He was very wiry coming out of high school and put on a lot of strength & muscle the last two years (He was a medical RS in '07-08).

    He decided to leave for greener pastures and followed Broderick when he left Oswego for Nazareth.

    Lots of Ability and glad to see he's coming into his own this year.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUSaxons33344 on January 30, 2010, 01:23:22 AM
    Quote from: thebear on January 29, 2010, 11:00:41 PM
    Alas - Naz's 6-11 kid played at Potsdam last year and didn't play much.  He was very wiry coming out of high school and put on a lot of strength & muscle the last two years (He was a medical RS in '07-08).

    He decided to leave for greener pastures and followed Broderick when he left Oswego for Nazareth.

    Lots of Ability and glad to see he's coming into his own this year.



    He looked awful coordinated and had some good big man moves.  Didn't even have to jump to dunk, really.  Glad the game was at least a tight one.  Hoping that same Alfred Team comes to play next time.  Need to close a game instead of working so hard to tie it then letting it slip away...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 30, 2010, 11:32:24 AM
    Did anyone watch the Fisher game last night that could tell me what happened? I did not have a chance to watch the game, but I was a little suprised by the outcoe. I thought Fisher would have a struggle to go undefeated in the league, but I did not think they would lose last night. I suppose it was going to happen sooner or later.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 30, 2010, 11:27:20 PM
    Stevens over Naz makes things real interesting in the E8. Now, the 2-4 teams all have 3 losses. I kind of like Stevens in the 2 spot. I figure they'll finish, at worst, 12-4 in conference, but 13-3 seems pretty realistic.

    Naz I see going 11-5. I think 12-4 is possible, but it would require a win over SJF or IC.

    Ithaca could go either way. On the surface, they've beaten every team ahead of them except for Utica, who they are clearly better than. But they've also had to make miraculous comebacks against Stevens and RIT who they now have to play on the road. And can Naz really be that bad again?

    I think the Bombers lose to Stevens, win the rest of the ones against the struggling teams and the Naz game could go either way. And yes, I know IC ran them off the court earlier. They ran Naz off the court twice last year. Things can happen. I'd give the Bombers the edge and the three seed, which means Stevens in the opening round of the tourney.

    But who knows with IC? They've been all over map this season. They could finish 13-3. They could finish 10-6...who knows?

    Also, in the bizzare weekend department:

    On Friday, Utica allows 110 points. The next day: 32.

    I know Elmira kind of sort of stinks, but EIGHT points in the first half? Ye Gods. Against a pretty non-descript Utica team? RIT put up 18 points in overtime on them.

    Elmira went scoreless for the first 8:23 and missed their first 14 shots (and that includes free throws)

    I wonder if that's some kind of record for fewest points in a half?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 31, 2010, 04:21:40 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 30, 2010, 11:27:20 PM
    Also, in the bizzare weekend department:

    On Friday, Utica allows 110 points. The next day: 32.

    I know Elmira kind of sort of stinks, but EIGHT points in the first half? Ye Gods. Against a pretty non-descript Utica team? RIT put up 18 points in overtime on them.

    Elmira went scoreless for the first 8:23 and missed their first 14 shots (and that includes free throws)

    I wonder if that's some kind of record for fewest points in a half?

    Bombers,
    Last week on Jan.23rd, Chapman University, #13 in D3Hoops Top 25 poll played the University of Dallas and beat them 61-29. U-Dallas, like Elmira, is not a great team, their current record is 9-10. Chapman had a slight lead at halftime. The score was 38-3. Now that may be a record since the advent of the shot clock. ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 31, 2010, 10:59:00 AM
    3 points at halftime? Ouch. What did they shoot from the field? You think they could hit a couple of shots from halfcourt if they shot enough. They should have just heaved them from halfcourt.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 31, 2010, 03:54:08 PM
    I am trying to stay LOW KEY AND NOT TALK ABOUT MY TIGERS.... it has been working.........  all I can say about the Ithaca game is  ;D, Now we have Fischer and NAZ, this should unmurkey the aters one way or another.

    By the way anyone see either or both of those Stevens games this weekend?   I could use feedback, I know nothing about either game. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 31, 2010, 05:07:25 PM
    Bombers continue to look for ways to blow the 4th spot for the E8 tournament.

    Another big second half hole, and this time, no miracle. Down 16 with 5:25 to go, Ithaca cuts it to two, but still falls 77-73.

    Bombers go 10-42 from three point range, Rivas goes 1-16 from the floor and the Bombers now fall to 6-4 in the conference, and, all of a sudden it's wide open. There are very few teams I would say the Bombers could definitely beat. Alfred and Elmira, yeah. Beyond that? Who knows?

    I said it last week: You can't keep getting into big holes and try to dig your way out. The Bombers play with fire a lot, and, as happened against Utica, they got burned. Trials of a young team, yes. But still disappointing
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUSaxons33344 on January 31, 2010, 06:25:50 PM
    Saxons by 2 over the visiting Hartwick Hawks 69-67.  25 from Stopera, 12 from Patt, 11 from Johnson (freshman).  Hartwick gets 19 from Ryder, 16 from Blazek and 11 from Phillips.....

    Alfred will be a headache for some of the teams on top...beating fisher last year to knock them out of the E8 tourney is a good example...  Anything can happen.  It just depends on what team shows up to play...   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 31, 2010, 07:02:23 PM
    Quote from: AUSaxons33344 on January 31, 2010, 06:25:50 PM
    Saxons by 2 over the visiting Hartwick Hawks 69-67.  25 from Stopera, 12 from Patt, 11 from Johnson (freshman).  Hartwick gets 19 from Ryder, 16 from Blazek and 11 from Phillips.....

    Alfred will be a headache for some of the teams on top...beating fisher last year to knock them out of the E8 tourney is a good example...  Anything can happen.  It just depends on what team shows up to play...   

    The Bombers send thanks...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 31, 2010, 09:13:32 PM
    A crazy weekend of games in the Empire 8 this weekend. I did not see Stevens sweeping Fisher and Naz, nor did I see RIT beating IC. Fisher needs to be ready for RIT Tuesday. That is a big one for both teams. Bigger for RIT, but Fisher does not want to start building up losses now, with NCAA's on their mind.

    I would not be suprised if IC did not make the tournament, which would have seemed insane even two weeks ago. Kudos to RIT for their mini run here to get themselves back into things. They can make things very interesting with a few more wins.

    Stevens is making a bit of a statement for a possible pool C bid. If they can win out (They only have one more road conference game, and the only really tough game they have left is RIT and Ithaca), they would be 21-4, with wins over Fisher and Baruch. That would be enough for me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUSaxons33344 on January 31, 2010, 11:53:01 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 31, 2010, 07:02:23 PM
    Quote from: AUSaxons33344 on January 31, 2010, 06:25:50 PM
    Saxons by 2 over the visiting Hartwick Hawks 69-67.  25 from Stopera, 12 from Patt, 11 from Johnson (freshman).  Hartwick gets 19 from Ryder, 16 from Blazek and 11 from Phillips.....

    Alfred will be a headache for some of the teams on top...beating fisher last year to knock them out of the E8 tourney is a good example...  Anything can happen.  It just depends on what team shows up to play...   

    The Bombers send thanks...

    LOL  sure thing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 01, 2010, 10:49:44 AM
    Did someone tighten the rims at RIT yesterday?  Bombers have one of their worst shooting nights of the season and RIT was atrocious from the line:

    Bombers are 10-42 (24%) from 3 and 23-75 (31%) overall.

    RIT is 8-23 (34%) from the FREE THROW LINE.

    ???

    Bombers need to bounce back this weekend in Alfred/Rochester and need to split at a minimum.  If they can split and Hartwick loses @ Naz then IC will have some breathing room over Hartwick/RIT.  If not then next Friday @ Hartwick might be an elimination game...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 01, 2010, 02:13:43 PM
    Bomber, 42 3's........ live by the sword die by the sword..... Hey we didn't beat you guys, the 3 caught up with them...take 10 less 3's and get a better % shot and hit just 3 of those, you can pull it off.......It will eventually come back to bite you.........trust me, we do the same thing, not as much, but way too much.....We have a mountain to climb this week, let me get my ropes out, I'll need them one way or another ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 01, 2010, 02:55:08 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 01, 2010, 02:13:43 PM
    Bomber, 42 3's........ live by the sword die by the sword..... Hey we didn't beat you guys, the 3 caught up with them...take 10 less 3's and get a better % shot and hit just 3 of those, you can pull it off.......It will eventually come back to bite you.........trust me, we do the same thing, not as much, but way too much.....We have a mountain to climb this week, let me get my ropes out, I'll need them one way or another ;)

    Yes I agree -- IC almost stunned RIT again but they finally ran out of steam.  Now they're going to have to battle for that last spot and hopefully avoid Fisher on their home court in round 1.  Not sure what the problem was this weekend but it wasn't tired legs - IC hadn't played since the previous Friday.  Maybe the layover was the issue but they need to bounce back against two teams that can beat them.  I know IC demolished Alfred the first time around but that was when IC was shooting well.  And beating Naz @ Naz would go a long way for positioning..

    And don't go using that rope just yet -- you called the RIT sweep last weekend and crazier things have happened....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 02, 2010, 11:33:56 AM
    Looking at the "RPI" rankings from the Multi-Region boards is pretty shocking.  I never would have guessed Stevens would be #1 in the region.  I pegged them as 5th-6th in the E8 this season nevermind the region.  After completing a Fisher/Naz sweep in Rochester last weekend and by looking at the RPI rankings they may be the hottest team in the region. They've won 8 of 9 with wins over Baruch (15-6), Fisher (16-4), and Naz (13-7). 

    First NCAA regional poll comes out tomorrow I believe.  Here's my predictions:

    1. Fisher
    2. Rochester
    3. Stevens
    4. Medaille
    5. NYU

    Regional rankings taken from Multi-region boards:

    E   001   0.778   0.567   0.525   0.553   0.6091   019   A   C      14-4    15-4   E8       Stevens
    E   002   0.789   0.548   0.540   0.545   0.6063   023   C   012    15-4    16-4   E8       St. John Fisher
    E   003   0.643   0.607   0.539   0.585   0.5992   026   C   014     9-5    13-5   UAA      Rochester
    E   004   0.733   0.551   0.517   0.540   0.5881   039   A   C-2    11-4    13-5   SUNYAC   Brockport State
    E   005   0.706   0.542   0.549   0.544   0.5847   045   C   024    12-5    13-5   UAA      New York University
    E   006   0.667   0.564   0.540   0.556   0.5835   046   C   025    12-6    13-7   E8       Nazareth
    E   007   0.947   0.438   0.503   0.460   0.5816   052   A          18-1    19-1   AMCC     Medaille
    E   008   0.667   0.556   0.526   0.546   0.5759   057   C   032    10-5    13-6   E8       Ithaca

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Go Naz on February 02, 2010, 01:19:02 PM
    Just wondering what everyone is thinking in regards to Medaille this year.  I realize they will get some respect in the regional rankings because of their record, but I have a tough time believing that they are as good as their record indicates.  The AMCC is short on quality teams and allows Medaille to rack up a number of wins.  If they are in the Empire 8, where would they finish?  Right now I would have to place them 6th.  I don't know if that sounds strange placing a 19-1 team 6th but I honestly can't see them beating Fisher, Stevens, Naz, Ithaca or RIT right now.  Thoughts from anyone else?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 02, 2010, 03:32:18 PM
    Quote from: Go Naz on February 02, 2010, 01:19:02 PM
    Just wondering what everyone is thinking in regards to Medaille this year.  I realize they will get some respect in the regional rankings because of their record, but I have a tough time believing that they are as good as their record indicates.  The AMCC is short on quality teams and allows Medaille to rack up a number of wins.  If they are in the Empire 8, where would they finish?  Right now I would have to place them 6th.  I don't know if that sounds strange placing a 19-1 team 6th but I honestly can't see them beating Fisher, Stevens, Naz, Ithaca or RIT right now.  Thoughts from anyone else?

    I don't think you're giving them the respect they deserve. While they may lose to some of the teams in the E8, I don't think there is a team in the league that they couldn't beat. They hung with D1 Colgate, only losing 62-53. They beat John Carroll 92-91 at the Blue Streaks home gym, 1 of only 2 home losses they have had all year. John Carroll was ranked #9 in the country at the time and while they have fallen out of the rankings, they are currently tied for 1st place in the Ohio Athletic Conference with a 9-3 record. Massey Ratings rank the OAC conference as the 7th toughest in D3. The E8 conference is ranked 20th. Last year Medaille faced a John Carroll team in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament that was stronger than this year's team. That Blue Streak team ended up 25-6, made it to the Sweet 16, losing to eventual 3rd place finisher, Guilford and Medaille while losing that game to JC was within 5 points with several minutes to play. Medaille returned just about everyone from last year's team and should they make ths year's tournament, could win a game or 2. Everyone said the same thing about SUNYIT's weak schedule last year and they almost made it to the Sweet 16. If I was a coach from the E8 and had to face this team I wouldn't be taking them lightly is all I'm saying.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: WNYHoops on February 02, 2010, 04:28:56 PM
    While I am not at all claiming Medaille would win the Empire 8, I can tell you they are definitely good enough to accomplish that. To say they would be #6 is way underestimating them. I don't believe they would be 19-1 right now playing an E8 schedule, but I have seen them play several times and know their personnel pretty well and they would absolutely be in the top 2-3 of the league. Coaches who understand the nature of DIII hoops realize how good this Medaille team is. I also know for a fact they handled Fisher pretty well in a pre-season scrimmage and match up well with them. So if Fisher is the measuring stick for the top of the E8, I think Medaille should be considered in that same category.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 02, 2010, 06:22:02 PM
    It was my understanding that Fisher "beat" Medaille in the scrimmage. I know they don't really keep score in those things, but I thought that someone on this board had said that Fisher struggled at times, but was able maintain control. I have no doubt that Medaille would be in the top 3 or 4 spots in the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: the golden flyer on February 02, 2010, 06:30:30 PM
    Quote from: WNYHoops on February 02, 2010, 04:28:56 PM
    While I am not at all claiming Medaille would win the Empire 8, I can tell you they are definitely good enough to accomplish that. To say they would be #6 is way underestimating them. I don't believe they would be 19-1 right now playing an E8 schedule, but I have seen them play several times and know their personnel pretty well and they would absolutely be in the top 2-3 of the league. Coaches who understand the nature of DIII hoops realize how good this Medaille team is. I also know for a fact they handled Fisher pretty well in a pre-season scrimmage and match up well with them. So if Fisher is the measuring stick for the top of the E8, I think Medaille should be considered in that same category.

    Although I do not know Medaille's personnel very well, I do know that the AMCC is weaker than the E8. It is a larger conference so I understand that it is harder to have as much parity but over recent years if you look at the teams the E8, or even the Sunyac has produced into the NCAA tournament, I dont think it is much of a comparison. I am not saying that Medaille isn't good because they clearly are a pretty solid team this year, but I just think that their conference schedule is weak compared to the Sunyac or E8....As far as the Fisher scrimmage goes, that is interesting that they outplayed Fisher, however a pre season scrimmage is rather meaningless (i.e. LeMoyne beating Syracuse this year). I know this was an exhibition game but the fact of the matter is that it didn't count on either team's record...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 02, 2010, 09:57:35 PM
    Fisher was able to get hot down the stretch and pull away from a game RIT team tonight. turned the game off before it went final but Fisher was up 16 with under a minute left. Fromafar, you have a lot to look forward to. RIT was much improved from the first time I saw them this year, and they look like they have some pieces for a real solid team next year, and beyond.

    From what I saw tonight, I would say RIT is the 3rd best team in the league right now. They will probably not get into the E8 tourny with the loss tonight, but if the season started today, I think they would be a lock. That is why the season starts when it does tho.

    Good win for Fisher rebounding from the loss to Stevens over the weekend. If they can take care of business the rest of the way and pull another tough one out against Naz, they should be in good shape going into the Conference Tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 02, 2010, 10:10:06 PM
    Yes, we may have dug too deep a hole...........and your right... they all count...........I'm not into moral victories though........I'm still holding onto a slim slim shot, I'm going to sleep............
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 02, 2010, 10:11:10 PM
    AU gets another win at McLane tonite.....that's two in a row on a court that hasn't been all that kind to the hosts to date. AU 68, Penn State-Wilkes Barre 54 with Stopera leading the way with 26 points.
    Saxons pull to within a game of .500 at 9-10.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 02, 2010, 11:39:04 PM
    Good to see you on Pep. It has been a little while. Congrats to the Saxons on another step in the right direction.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 03, 2010, 08:23:25 AM
    Hey Pep, great to hear you....... I think Alfred is better than their record... they have some nice pieces to the puzzle, as I have posted a few times... I could use their help as well, love to see you guys knock off IC and/ or NAZ, but not us........ I'm hoping against hope but ON SAXON WARRIORS!!! Hope I didn't put the kiss of death on them.......
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 03, 2010, 05:04:44 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 03, 2010, 08:23:25 AM
    Hey Pep, great to hear you....... I think Alfred is better than their record... they have some nice pieces to the puzzle, as I have posted a few times... I could use their help as well, love to see you guys knock off IC and/ or NAZ, but not us........ I'm hoping against hope but ON SAXON WARRIORS!!! Hope I didn't put the kiss of death on them.......

    Pep is just pleased to see progress. AU is 9-10 which is about where Pep expected the Saxons to be this year as Coach Wellman builds the program. Perhaps the Saxons can surprise a couple of E8 foes down the stretch. They have not played well at home under Wellman's watch but after winning two in a row in McLane (and avenging a 17 point road loss to Hartwick), perhaps AU's late homestand will bring some big wins.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 03, 2010, 06:36:26 PM
    It blows my mind that Newman scored a CAREER HIGH 23 points last night against RIT, and went over 1000 points for his career. That is some consistent scoring I guess. Sort of like Willie Mays never hitting more than 50 home runs in his career maybe. I never thought of him as that much of a scorer, but that is an impressive feet for any college player.

    When he was a Freshman, I thought he was going to be really good, but since then I have cooled a little on him, but he deserves the credit for being able to stay in the lineup.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 03, 2010, 07:56:02 PM
    The NCAA released the first set of Regional Rankings today. Here is the East Region:

    East Region
    1. St. John Fisher 15-4 16-4
    2. Stevens 15-4 15-4
    3. New York University 12-5 13-5
    4. Medaille 18-1 19-1
    5. Rochester 9-5 13-5
    6. Nazareth 12-6 13-7

    Complete rankings for all regions came be found here:

    http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 03, 2010, 10:34:43 PM
    Thanks for the update Magicman. I thought it would be a race between Stevens and Fisher for the top spot. To tell the truth, I thought Stevens would have the inside track for the top spot in the region since they just beat Fisher, but it was a close race.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 04, 2010, 02:11:55 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 03, 2010, 10:34:43 PM
    Thanks for the update Magicman. I thought it would be a race between Stevens and Fisher for the top spot. To tell the truth, I thought Stevens would have the inside track for the top spot in the region since they just beat Fisher, but it was a close race.

    sjfcards,
    Yes, Fisher and Stevens are the frontrunners and Stevens would be the first team on the table for a Pool C from the East if the teams were picked tomorrow as Fisher would get a Pool A bid as the conference champ. However with a little more than two weeks to go and 2 more regional ranking updates to follow, things can get pretty muddled in a hurry with a bad loss here or there. Medaille has made a big move up the list in just a week's time. On January 28th, the Pool C board rankings that KnightSlappy does, had Medaille in 9th place. When he came out with his new rankings on Jan 31st they had moved up to 7th, and now the 1st set of NCAA rankings have them in 4th ahead of Uof R and Naz. Medaille won on the road tonight to move to 20-1 and they beat one of the better teams in their conference. Fisher and Stevens will have a harder time avoiding a loss or losses than Medaille will. Should Medaille win out and get upset in their conference tourney they could very well get the single Pool C that the East region will get. Fisher or Stevens will have at least 1 more loss in the E8 playoffs. It would also help if that loss is in the finals and not the semis. Just ask Hamilton about that. Last year they were ranked ahead of St Lawrence in the regional rankings going into the Liberty League tournament. RPI beat both of them to win the automatic bid. Hamilton lost in the semis to RPI while the Saints lost in the championship game to RPI. The NCAA committee jumped Hamilton and gave St. Lawrence the Pool C even though both schools got a loss on that last weekend. It's possible that Fisher will have a harder time running the regular season table than Stevens will. The Ducks' toughest remaining games are at home, while Fisher has to play their toughest pair on the road. I really hope Medaille wins the automatic bid from the AMCC and that might guarantee the East Region will get another team to the Dance.       

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 04, 2010, 09:52:52 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 04, 2010, 02:11:55 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 03, 2010, 10:34:43 PM
    Thanks for the update Magicman. I thought it would be a race between Stevens and Fisher for the top spot. To tell the truth, I thought Stevens would have the inside track for the top spot in the region since they just beat Fisher, but it was a close race.

    sjfcards,
    Yes, Fisher and Stevens are the frontrunners and Stevens would be the first team on the table for a Pool C from the East if the teams were picked tomorrow as Fisher would get a Pool A bid as the conference champ. However with a little more than two weeks to go and 2 more regional ranking updates to follow, things can get pretty muddled in a hurry with a bad loss here or there. Medaille has made a big move up the list in just a week's time. On January 28th, the Pool C board rankings that KnightSlappy does, had Medaille in 9th place. When he came out with his new rankings on Jan 31st they had moved up to 7th, and now the 1st set of NCAA rankings have them in 4th ahead of Uof R and Naz. Medaille won on the road tonight to move to 20-1 and they beat one of the better teams in their conference. Fisher and Stevens will have a harder time avoiding a loss or losses than Medaille will. Should Medaille win out and get upset in their conference tourney they could very well get the single Pool C that the East region will get. Fisher or Stevens will have at least 1 more loss in the E8 playoffs. It would also help if that loss is in the finals and not the semis. Just ask Hamilton about that. Last year they were ranked ahead of St Lawrence in the regional rankings going into the Liberty League tournament. RPI beat both of them to win the automatic bid. Hamilton lost in the semis to RPI while the Saints lost in the championship game to RPI. The NCAA committee jumped Hamilton and gave St. Lawrence the Pool C even though both schools got a loss on that last weekend. It's possible that Fisher will have a harder time running the regular season table than Stevens will. The Ducks' toughest remaining games are at home, while Fisher has to play their toughest pair on the road. I really hope Medaille wins the automatic bid from the AMCC and that might guarantee the East Region will get another team to the Dance.       



    This is what it looks like for the East Region this year:

    SUNYAC - 1 Bid from the AQ
    Empire 8 - Automatic Qualifier + Stevens or Fisher if they don't lose more than once
    NEAC - 1 bid from the AQ
    UAA Schools - None unless NYU/Rochester get real hot
    LL - 1 bid from AQ
    AMCC - Medaille

    About the same as last year except the Liberty League got two teams in. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 05, 2010, 12:03:33 AM
    Updated Pool C rankings from the Pool C board through Wednesday Feb. 3rd.
    Here's the Northeast and East Regions:

    REG   #   WP      OWP     OOWP    SOS     RPI50   RPI     NAT   Pool        REG     OVR   CONF     Team
                                             
    NE   01   1.000   0.455   0.540   0.483   0.742   0.613   001   A   C      17-0    19-1   NESCAC   Williams
    NE   02   0.947   0.484   0.528   0.499   0.723   0.611   006   A   C      18-1    19-2   NEWMAC   MIT
    NE   03   0.933   0.481   0.555   0.506   0.720   0.613   009   C   002    14-1    16-2   NESCAC   Colby
    NE   04   0.867   0.534   0.508   0.525   0.696   0.611   017   C   004    13-2    17-2   NESCAC   Middlebury
    NE   05   0.824   0.529   0.569   0.542   0.683   0.613   020   C   006    14-3    14-3   UAA      Brandeis
    NE   06   0.813   0.510   0.534   0.518   0.665   0.591   031   A   C      13-3    14-5   MASCAC   Bridgewater St.
    NE   07   0.833   0.490   0.508   0.496   0.665   0.581   032   A   C      15-3    15-4   GNAC     Albertus Magnus
    NE   08   0.833   0.463   0.506   0.477   0.655   0.566   035   A   C      15-3    16-3   CCC      Gordon
    NE   09   0.765   0.487   0.525   0.499   0.632   0.566   057   A   C-2    13-4    14-4   LEC      Western Ct.
    NE   10   0.700   0.586   0.515   0.562   0.631   0.597   058   C   023    14-6    14-6   LEC      Mass-Dartmouth
    NE   11   0.722   0.538   0.509   0.529   0.625   0.577   065   C   029    13-5    14-5   NEWMAC   WPI
    NE   12   0.750   0.467   0.518   0.484   0.617   0.550   074   A          12-4    13-4   NAC      Thomas
    NE   13   0.722   0.505   0.520   0.510   0.616   0.563   076   C   037    13-5    14-5   GNAC     St. Josephs
    NE   14   0.706   0.536   0.493   0.522   0.614   0.568   079   C   040    12-5    13-6   GNAC     Emerson
                                             
    E   001   0.950   0.455   0.503   0.471   0.711   0.591   011   A   C      19-1    20-1   AMCC     Medaille
    E   002   0.789   0.552   0.537   0.547   0.668   0.608   028   A   C      15-4    16-4   E8       St. John Fisher
    E   003   0.789   0.551   0.527   0.543   0.666   0.605   030   C   008    15-4    15-4   E8       Stevens
    E   004   0.750   0.531   0.519   0.527   0.638   0.583   048   A   C      12-4    14-5   SUNYAC   Brockport State
    E   005   0.706   0.552   0.551   0.551   0.629   0.590   061   C   026    12-5    13-5   UAA      NYU
    E   006   0.722   0.530   0.515   0.525   0.624   0.575   068   C   032    13-5    14-5   SUNYAC   Oneonta State
    E   007   0.643   0.603   0.541   0.582   0.612   0.597   081   C   042     9-5    13-5   UAA      Rochester
    E   008   0.667   0.550   0.538   0.546   0.606   0.576   085   C   046    12-6    13-7   E8       Nazareth
    E   009   0.667   0.548   0.526   0.541   0.604   0.572   089   C   050    10-5    13-6   E8       Ithaca

    Using this latest ranking if the bids were handed out tomorrow and Medaille, Fisher and Stevens were not the winners of the automatic qualifier the only Pool C bid from the East Region would go to Medaille. 

    The Northeast Region has 4 potential Pool C bids and possibly a 5th as Brandeis is ranked #20 nationally.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 05, 2010, 09:44:22 AM
    Magic, so if things remained the same....... and two of those 3 .. Medaille, Stevens, and Fisher got the AQ, the other should get the pool C. Not familiar as to why East gets 1 pool C and North East gets 4 maybe 5.  Is it because of Rankings?   ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 05, 2010, 02:31:01 PM
    Not too many good matchups this weekend other than IC/Naz and Hartwick/Naz.

    IC travels to Alfred tonight and hopefully the Bombers don't get caught looking ahead to Naz since they destroyed Alfred the first time around.  It's a tough gym to play in with it being so open and sparse.  IC hasn't played well there in a few years.  I think they'll struggle a bit then pull away late.

    If Hartwick plans on making a run at the #4 spot, a win tonight would go a long way.  A loss and an Ithaca win would most likely seal their fate.

    IC can all but guarantee themselves a spot in the tourney with 2 wins this weekend.  IC played one of the better games of the year against Naz a few weeks ago so hopefully they can pull it off again.  Should be close. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 05, 2010, 08:45:28 PM
    Brutal half of basketball between Fisher and Elmira. Elmira hits a running 3 at the buzzer and is up 22-20. Fisher had 3 points with 9 minutes left in the half. Elmira is using all of the shot clock, and Fisher looked very sluggish.

    The 22-20 score matches my local high school teams score tonight after the 1st quarter. Difficult to watch tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 05, 2010, 08:47:45 PM
    Elmira over Fisher? Could replace Utica over IC as the upset of the year in the E8...

    Bombers up 42-30 at the half.

    Naz up 37-28

    Stevens up 33-17
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 05, 2010, 08:59:15 PM
    Bombers pulling away now, up 51-34...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 05, 2010, 09:18:08 PM
    is anyone else having trouble with the video feed from Fisher/Elmira?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 05, 2010, 09:32:18 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 05, 2010, 09:18:08 PM
    is anyone else having trouble with the video feed from Fisher/Elmira?

    Apparently they lost the feed from the arena
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 05, 2010, 09:35:13 PM
    Bombers win 81-63
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 05, 2010, 09:50:20 PM
    livestats had a 60-59 ec win, now it's 59-58 sjf in ot...interesting
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 05, 2010, 10:07:29 PM
    Fisher survives a big time scare tonight. Gettings hits a 3 with 9 second left in regulation to force overtime, and Fisher outscores EC by 7 in overtime. Wow...tough one to watch/listen to, but give EC a lot of credit sticking to their gameplan, and hitting some big shots all game.

    Fisher moves to 18-4, but they better bring a much better effort the next few games. Lucky they laid an egg against one of the lower tier teams in the league tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 06, 2010, 04:47:48 PM
    Bombers getting their doors blown off at Nazareth, down 53-32....

    Cue up obligatory "Live by the three die by the three"

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 06, 2010, 05:07:17 PM
    Bombers open half on a 16-7 run, down 60-48 with 13:25 to go
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 06, 2010, 05:11:00 PM
    Unreal 60-55 with 11:38 to go...Otztemel with four fouls
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 06, 2010, 05:16:24 PM
    65-64 Bombers 8:38 to go...IC has outscored Naz 33-11 in the second half
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 06, 2010, 05:20:52 PM
    70-66 IC with 7:19 to go
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 06, 2010, 05:25:17 PM
    Naz rallies, 71-70 Flyers with 5:22 to go
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 06, 2010, 05:28:19 PM
    Naz trying to pull away up 77-70 with 4:21 to go. Bombers may be out of gas....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 06, 2010, 05:35:12 PM
    83-76 Naz with 2:36 to go
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 06, 2010, 05:48:13 PM
    Nazareth wins 91-85

    Once again, the Bombers find themselves in a massive second half hole, and despite taking a lead, run out of gas.

    This team will never take the next step unless they learn to play 40 solid minutes. Yeah, it's cliche, but it seems like unless they're playing a very bad team, Ithaca's games always seem to have these massive up and downs. Not like 5-6 point swings. But 15-20. Hopefully, next year's team can learn to play more consistent.

    The Bombers now find themselves just one game up in the loss column to RIT for the final spot in the E8 tournament. Things are wide open

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 07, 2010, 04:26:26 PM
    Happy Super Bowl everyone. Enjoy it.

    It is starting to come down to the wire in the E8 and several teams are still in the running for a tournament spot. I could see any team from Fisher to RIT winning the AQ. Honestly, would anyone be suprised if IC shot the ball well and beat Stevens and Fisher on back to back nights? Same with Naz. Makes things fun down the stretch.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 08, 2010, 10:15:04 AM
    It may be somewhat open but I think IC has a pretty strong grip on the 4th place spot over Hartwick and RIT.  RIT may have only one fewer loss but IC has 3 more wins - which is 75% more than RIT has in conference all year.  Also, IC has the tiebreaker over RIT right now (due to comparable records against Nazareth - IC 1-1 and RIT 0-1 but play them tomorrow).  The only way I see Ithaca missing out on the tournament is if RIT can beat Nazareth, Utica, Hartwick, Elmira, Alfred and Stevens.  I see Ithaca losing one of their remaining four games but no more than two(Utica, Elmira, @ Hartwick, @ Stevens).  That means RIT would have to run the table and hope to get the tiebreaker.  Even if IC does lose twice RIT would still need to win 5 of 6 and hope the tiebreaker scenario works out. I don't see that happening.

    IC automatically has the tiebreaker over Hartwick so they have essentially a three game lead with four to play.  IC beat Nazareth and Stevens so even if Hartwick beats Stevens it wouldn't matter because IC did as well.  Hartwick was 0-2 against Naz and IC was 1-1. 

    Sorry to spoil your morning FROMAFAR but it looks like the top 4 are pretty close to being locked up.  RIT/Naz tomorrow and IC/Utica as well.  It might be over after that...

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 08, 2010, 09:13:33 PM
    It was just announced on the Fisher web page that the Football team will play the annual Courage Bowl, between Fisher and U of R, at the new Rhino's Stadium in downtown Rochester. It just got me thinking if teams in the E8 would consider/want to move games to some bigger venues? Fisher/Naz comes to mind as an option, as well as the Chase Tournament. Maybe play them at Blue Cross Arena?

    How about a venue, like Blue Cross Arena, for the E8 Conference Tournament? Any thoughts?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Go Naz on February 09, 2010, 07:58:12 AM
    I've always thought Naz/Fisher would be cool in the Blue Cross.  For those games, the gyms have been filled to capacity with hundreds being turned away at the door.  I'm not saying that they could sell the arena out, but I think a well advertised game at the Blue Cross could probably get 3-4 thousand people, especially if the schools provided shuttles down and back.  The only negative of this system would be playing the games away from the team's home courts.  I think one of the really special parts of that rivalry is the intimate nature of both those gyms, and the fact that the schools are so close.  Taking the game to a big venue eliminates that aspect of the rivalry.


    As far as tonights games:

    Fisher +9 over Alfred
    Naz +4 over RIT
    Ithaca+14 over Utica
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 09, 2010, 09:25:12 AM
    Bomber when your right your right, and your right..... This is small amount of breath left in RIT and I agree, hope against hope. We have only ourselves to blame. But looking at the big picture, and in fairness to the Tigers, I think Fisher, Naz, Stevens and IC are all good teams... we may not have underachieved as much as I thought.  Fisher is in the top 25 and is basically performing as expected. They are solid, and have a bit of depth. They are basically un-beatable at home....Naz has Mc Adams, and fair supporting cast, they may have played a little above their talent, Stevens is tough. They play very good D and have many offensive  weapons. Well coached as too. They are close to the top 25... IC is the wild card, they can beat anyone and lose to anyone. So that being said we probably aren't one of the 4 best, as our record indicates. I would have loved to be in the tourney our last year in the league. As far as venues, since we won't be around next year what would my opinion matter.... BUT I will give it anyway. Yes Naz Fisher would draw big in the Blue Cross. I have always thought the E-8 Tourney should be at a neutral site. I know it would cut the attendance down depending on where, but if we.. err you :'( put your heads together, you could come up with some idea.  Hey Bomber, I'm still breathing...  :P
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 09, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
    this just in
    Fisher-#25 in the poll
    Congrats to the alma mater!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 09, 2010, 10:55:05 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on February 09, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
    this just in
    Fisher-#25 in the poll
    Congrats to the alma mater!

    That big OT win against Elmira must have pushed them over the top!  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 09, 2010, 11:02:42 AM
    i didnt say that they would stay long  ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 09, 2010, 02:21:16 PM
    I look for a high scoring game with Naz tonight, I think you need 83 to win.......I don't think Utica can do it twice, they look like they have given up. But they camn make some sort of a statement with another win here.   I thought, early on, Alfred had some juice.. but they just don't have enough weapons.... Stoppera needs to get others involved... BUT Elmira put a scare in Fisher, maybe Alfred can. ;D 

    No predictions, I don't like jinxing anyone.......... ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 09, 2010, 02:30:03 PM
    Sorry to go back to the venue discussion but does the sunyac or LL hold their tournaments at a neutral floor? I seem to remember sunyacs being. Played at the Utica aud?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 09, 2010, 03:00:48 PM
    cards- i think you are right- i remember them at the aud- but cant remember how long ago that was.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 09, 2010, 04:31:46 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 09, 2010, 02:30:03 PM
    Sorry to go back to the venue discussion but does the sunyac or LL hold their tournaments at a neutral floor? I seem to remember sunyacs being. Played at the Utica aud?

    SUNYAC tournament used to be played at Utica but unless Utica was involved(and they usually weren't) the crowds were rather sparse, so I believe the last year they were there was the 05-06 season. Since 8 teams advance to the playoffs, now the quarter finals are held at the higher seeds gym, and the final 4 teams play the semis and finals at the highest remaining seed's gym.

    The Liberty League, like the E8, only has 4 teams in the playoffs and they play their tournament at the regular season champs home gym.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 09, 2010, 07:27:01 PM
    damn im getting old
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 09, 2010, 09:21:40 PM
    Fisher is all over AU with time almost up. I heard on the broadcast that Naz was losing to RIT? That wraps up at least the #2 seed for Fisher (assuming Naz does lose)? If they can get one more they will be out of reach of Stevens as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 09, 2010, 10:33:54 PM
    Fisher clinches 1st place with an 80-53 win over visiting Alfred and will host the E8 tournament. Freshman Jason Norsen led the Cardinals with 13 points on 5 for 5 shooting from the field. Jordan Gettings had 12 pts with 7 assists, followed by Jordan Koch and Michael Wopperer also with 12 pts each. Fisher is now off until next Tuesday when they travel to nazareth.  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 09, 2010, 10:42:18 PM
    RIT edges Nazareth 89-87 in overtime to keep their slim playoff hopes alive. Brenden Harder scored the last of his career high 33 points with 6 seconds left to provide the margin of victory.

    Close first half as teams battle through 3 lead changes and 3 ties until RIT down 20-18 goes on a 16-0 run over a 7 minute stretch to grab a 34-20 advantage with 4:18 left in the period. Tigers stay tough and go into the locker room up 42-26. Teams come out of the break and Tigers maintain double digit lead that fluctuates between 10 and 15 pts until with 8:00 remaining a Corey McAdam jumper cut it to 8 at 64-56. Naz chipped away and finally tied the game at 73 on a McAdam triple at the 1:53 mark. A layup and 1 by Anthony Terry for the Tigers, followed by another McAdam jumper left the Tigers with a 1 pt advantage that became 3 when RIT's Scott Young hit a layup with 12 seconds left . Following a Naz TO Tyshun Stephens off a feed by McAdam nails a three to send it into overtime.

    Nazareth quickly grabs a 5 pt lead in the extra session and is still up by 4 at 87-83 on a Jason Corletta layup with 2:09 to play, but those would be the last points the Golden Flyers would score. RIT gets a layup by Nate Korinchak, then a steal by Harder is followed by 2 RIT misses but the Tigers grab the offensive rebound both times and finally convert a Justin Hiesig layup to tie the game with 56 seconds remaining. Naz come down and misses a jumper with 33 seconds left setting the stage for Harder's heroics. McAdams last second shot misses and the Tigers celebrate the win.

    RIT's Harder shoots 14x23 from the field 2x3 3's and 3x3 ft. for his 33 points. he also added 5 rebounds 2 assists 1 block and 1 steal. Terry had 16 pts (6x12 fg, 1x2 3's, 3x3 ft) and Korinchak added 10 on 5x8 shooting. Scott Young just missed a double-double with 9 pts and 10 boards. RIT shot 39x74 (52.7%) from the field, 4x13 (30.8%) from beyond the arc, and 7x9 (77.8%) from the line. They out-rebounded Nazareth 42-29 and had 12 turnovers to 13 for the Golden Flyers.
     
    McAdam,as usual led the Golden Flyers with 26 pts (9x17 fg, 2x5 3's, 6x8 ft), 7 rebounds and 6 assists. Corletta had 20 pts (7x12 fg, 2x6 3's, 4x5 ft) and Phil Scaffidi had 13pts (5x11 fg, 1x1 3's, 2x2 ft). Greg Lothridge finished 1 rebound shy of a double-double with 18 pts (8x19 fg, 2x3 ft) and 9 boards. Naz shot 33x64 (51.6%) from the field, 7x19 (36.8%) from 3 pt. land and 14x18 (77.8%) from the line.

    RIT's next game is at Elmira on Friday followed by a home game on Saturday as Utica comes to town. Naz is off until the 16th, when they host St. John Fisher.         
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 09, 2010, 11:37:36 PM
    Ithaca downs Utica College 88- 69. While the Bombers didn't clinch a playoff spot with the win it puts them in a fairly good position with only 3 games left to play.

    Bombers with early double digit lead allow Utica to close to 32-30 with 4:28 left to play in the half. Ithaca closes the period on a 9-2 run to go into the break up 41-32. Back and forth play in the early stages of the 2nd but Ithaca gradually forges a 13 pt advantage only to have Utica come back and cut it to 6 with 11:42 remaining. Back to back three pointers 30 seconds apart by Bomber's Eli Maravich(his only points of the game)restores lead to 12 and Ithaca was never threatened from that point on.
    Jordan Marcus, with 5 three pointers, scored 30 or more points for the 5th time this year as he led the Bombers with 36 pts on 11x22 fg, 5x11 3's and 9x12 ft. Phil Barera had a double-double with 14 pts (7x14 fg) and a whopping 20 rebounds, with 11 of them coming on the offensive end. Sean Rossi had 10 pts and 7 assists, while Andrei Otzemel added 10 points as well. James Paterson with 24 pts (8x14 fg, 3x3 3's, 5x6 ft) led the Pioneers. Patrick Goodman was next with 13 pts and 8 boards, followed by Marlon Davidson with 11 pts.

    Ithaca back in action on Friday at Hartwick and Utica travels to Alfred.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 10, 2010, 05:55:34 AM
    OK, still breathing........... I believe the only reason we won last night is NAZ get tired. They had 5 guys play many minutes and finally lost their legs... I give NAZ credit we had them and let them back in... they had us in O.T. and I think they just were dragging in last 2 min. In any event, we have to win out and Ithaca has to lose to Hartwick and Stevens......Bomber am I missing any other scenario... ? Naz plays Fisher and I THINK ALfred........  I have been touting ALfred all year as pulling one off, boy that might murkey the waters? ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 10, 2010, 09:47:11 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 10, 2010, 05:55:34 AM
    OK, still breathing........... I believe the only reason we won last night is NAZ get tired. They had 5 guys play many minutes and finally lost their legs... I give NAZ credit we had them and let them back in... they had us in O.T. and I think they just were dragging in last 2 min. In any event, we have to win out and Ithaca has to lose to Hartwick and Stevens......Bomber am I missing any other scenario... ? Naz plays Fisher and I THINK ALfred........  I have been touting ALfred all year as pulling one off, boy that might murkey the waters? ;) 

    For RIT to get in over Ithaca this needs to happen:

    RIT could get in without tiebreaker scenarios by winning out and have IC lose two games (between @ Hartwick, Elmira, and @ Stevens)

    If they tie:  RIT would get the tiebreaker only if Ithaca loses @ Stevens and RIT wins @ Stevens, wins @ Hartwick, wins @ Utica (RIT would get tiebreaker due to IC losing @ Utica and RIT winning both).

    If IC wins @ Stevens they would have the tiebreaker since they beat them twice. 

    Anyone see any issues?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 10, 2010, 10:52:38 AM
    Nice job Bomber, sorry I had you go through that when, as we said, I'm just about  breathing........... So if you are an IC fan, you hope Fisher beats NAZ. If you are a Stevens fan, I guess you root for Naz, may help them in regional standings.... If your me, I root against everyone ahead of me.......in particular IC........ Too big of a hole.........  :-[  But still interesting ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 10, 2010, 11:50:14 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 10, 2010, 10:52:38 AM
    Nice job Bomber, sorry I had you go through that when, as we said, I'm just about  breathing........... So if you are an IC fan, you hope Fisher beats NAZ. If you are a Stevens fan, I guess you root for Naz, may help them in regional standings.... If your me, I root against everyone ahead of me.......in particular IC........ Too big of a hole.........  :-[  But still interesting ;)

    For IC to pass Naz they would have to lose both (Fisher, Elmira) since Naz would have the tiebreaker (split season series and Naz wins tiebreaker since they beat Utica twice and IC lost once).  IC is more likely to catch Stevens since they play  next weekend.  IC would need to win out and hope Stevens trips up once in their other 3 games (Hartwick, RIT, Elmira), which would give IC the tiebreaker due to their season sweep.  But if IC wants to win the E8 tournament they're most likely going to have to play Fisher anyways so not that big a deal to play them in the first round...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on February 10, 2010, 02:59:23 PM
    Haaaaaters....come out and plaaaaay

    In the beginning of the season I wrote a post that proclaimed that Fisher was "clearly the class of the E8". The posts immediately began to stream-in proclaiming my comment to be misinformed and over exagerated. Most of these responses, I might add, came from Fisher fans. My point was simple. Both the Fisher program and 2009/10 roster were elite. Fisher has won the E8 five (5) of the last seven (7) league titles and had almost an .800 winning percentage over that period. Anybody who does not believe that Fisher is the E8 team of the decade should be admitted to an insane asylum. I said the team this year was going to make waves in NCAA's and win the league. I based this on the fact that they had a talented roster, the best recruiting class in the league by far and unquestionably the best two coaches (Kornaker and Mahannna). Obviously, many people disagreed. I hope the haters, non-believers and those lacking the spine to make a bold prediction have realized the errors in their thinking. Eventhough it is easy to be right when you publicly support a top-level program like Fisher, it still feels good.

    I cannot wait to smack Naz again. Guarantee we win by a larger margin than the last meeting.


    VIVA LA CARDS!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 10, 2010, 05:05:49 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on February 10, 2010, 02:59:23 PM
    Haaaaaters....come out and plaaaaay

    In the beginning of the season I wrote a post that proclaimed that Fisher was "clearly the class of the E8". The posts immediately began to stream-in proclaiming my comment to be misinformed and over exagerated. Most of these responses, I might add, came from Fisher fans. My point was simple. Both the Fisher program and 2009/10 roster were elite. Fisher has won the E8 five (5) of the last seven (7) league titles and had almost an .800 winning percentage over that period. Anybody who does not believe that Fisher is the E8 team of the decade should be admitted to an insane asylum. I said the team this year was going to make waves in NCAA's and win the league. I based this on the fact that they had a talented roster, the best recruiting class in the league by far and unquestionably the best two coaches (Kornaker and Mahannna). Obviously, many people disagreed. I hope the haters, non-believers and those lacking the spine to make a bold prediction have realized the errors in their thinking. Eventhough it is easy to be right when you publicly support a top-level program like Fisher, it still feels good.

    I cannot wait to smack Naz again. Guarantee we win by a larger margin than the last meeting.


    VIVA LA CARDS!!!!

    Everything that is wrong with sports from a fans perspective.  All in one post.  Nice....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 10, 2010, 06:30:42 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on February 10, 2010, 02:59:23 PM
    Haaaaaters....come out and plaaaaay

    In the beginning of the season I wrote a post that proclaimed that Fisher was "clearly the class of the E8". The posts immediately began to stream-in proclaiming my comment to be misinformed and over exagerated. Most of these responses, I might add, came from Fisher fans. My point was simple. Both the Fisher program and 2009/10 roster were elite. Fisher has won the E8 five (5) of the last seven (7) league titles and had almost an .800 winning percentage over that period. Anybody who does not believe that Fisher is the E8 team of the decade should be admitted to an insane asylum. I said the team this year was going to make waves in NCAA's and win the league. I based this on the fact that they had a talented roster, the best recruiting class in the league by far and unquestionably the best two coaches (Kornaker and Mahannna). Obviously, many people disagreed. I hope the haters, non-believers and those lacking the spine to make a bold prediction have realized the errors in their thinking. Eventhough it is easy to be right when you publicly support a top-level program like Fisher, it still feels good.

    I cannot wait to smack Naz again. Guarantee we win by a larger margin than the last meeting.


    VIVA LA CARDS!!!!

    "The best recruiting class in the league by far"..according to whom? Is there a d-3 basketball recruiting website similar to Rivals that I'm missing? If you look at some of the stats of IC, SJFC and NAZs newcomers (Freshmen/transfers) they contribute 33.1ppg and 12.7 rpg at IC. 24.8 and 12.7 and Fisher and 27 and 16.2 at NAZ. So Fishers newcomers contribute less than the newcomers at IC and NAZ.

    AND they have not just the best, but the TWO BEST coaches in the league! Mahanna is a better coach than McVean, Mullins, Broderick, Hurley, Conley (well, maybe...) and whoever the guys at 'Wick, Elmira, Alfred are..c'mon man.

    Now, concerning the RIT-Naz game last night. Naz got tired it looked like. Plus, RIT just outhustled and outworked them. It seemed as though RIT got every 50-50 ball and tons of huge offensive boards down the stretch. I believe RIT finished with 17 offensive boards - that's what won that game.

    It will be interesting to see who fills out seeds 2-4 for that E-8 Tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 10, 2010, 09:53:09 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on February 10, 2010, 02:59:23 PM
    Haaaaaters....come out and plaaaaay

    In the beginning of the season I wrote a post that proclaimed that Fisher was "clearly the class of the E8". The posts immediately began to stream-in proclaiming my comment to be misinformed and over exagerated. Most of these responses, I might add, came from Fisher fans. My point was simple. Both the Fisher program and 2009/10 roster were elite. Fisher has won the E8 five (5) of the last seven (7) league titles and had almost an .800 winning percentage over that period. Anybody who does not believe that Fisher is the E8 team of the decade should be admitted to an insane asylum. I said the team this year was going to make waves in NCAA's and win the league. I based this on the fact that they had a talented roster, the best recruiting class in the league by far and unquestionably the best two coaches (Kornaker and Mahannna). Obviously, many people disagreed. I hope the haters, non-believers and those lacking the spine to make a bold prediction have realized the errors in their thinking. Eventhough it is easy to be right when you publicly support a top-level program like Fisher, it still feels good.

    I cannot wait to smack Naz again. Guarantee we win by a larger margin than the last meeting.


    VIVA LA CARDS!!!!

    I would like to apologize to everyone on these boards for posts like this.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 10, 2010, 11:36:44 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 10, 2010, 09:53:09 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on February 10, 2010, 02:59:23 PM
    Haaaaaters....come out and plaaaaay

    In the beginning of the season I wrote a post that proclaimed that Fisher was "clearly the class of the E8". The posts immediately began to stream-in proclaiming my comment to be misinformed and over exagerated. Most of these responses, I might add, came from Fisher fans. My point was simple. Both the Fisher program and 2009/10 roster were elite. Fisher has won the E8 five (5) of the last seven (7) league titles and had almost an .800 winning percentage over that period. Anybody who does not believe that Fisher is the E8 team of the decade should be admitted to an insane asylum. I said the team this year was going to make waves in NCAA's and win the league. I based this on the fact that they had a talented roster, the best recruiting class in the league by far and unquestionably the best two coaches (Kornaker and Mahannna). Obviously, many people disagreed. I hope the haters, non-believers and those lacking the spine to make a bold prediction have realized the errors in their thinking. Eventhough it is easy to be right when you publicly support a top-level program like Fisher, it still feels good.

    I cannot wait to smack Naz again. Guarantee we win by a larger margin than the last meeting.


    VIVA LA CARDS!!!!

    I would like to apologize to everyone on these boards for posts like this.

    sjfcards,
    No need to apologize, we all know what we're dealing with here.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 10, 2010, 11:43:05 PM
    New Regional Rankings were released earlier today. Here's the East Region:

    Through games of Sunday Feb. 7th 2010

    East Region: In-Region Record followed by Overall Record
    1. St. John Fisher 17-4 18-4
    2. Stevens 16-4 16-4
    3. Medaille 19-2 20-2
    4. Oneonta State 15-5 16-5
    5. New York University 13-6 14-6
    6. Nazareth 14-6 15-7

    For a complete list of all the regions click on this D3Hoops link:

    http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/











    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Go Naz on February 11, 2010, 07:44:25 AM
    I know I'm a little late here but I caught the Naz-RIT game the other night and had a few thoughts.  I was really impressed with the Naz comeback.  They chipped away through the entire second half and made big plays down the stretch.  I think the hole was just too deep to dig out of and they ran out of gas in overtime.  On the RIT side, what a performance by Harder.  He is just a tough, hard working, physical kid.  He really pushed Lothridge around the paint.  I was also impressed by RIT's ability to maintain focus in overtime.  It would have been easy to fold the tents after Naz making some tough shots to force overtime and then going up 5 to start overtime.  RIT showed a great deal of poise in overtime to pull the game out. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 11, 2010, 09:18:13 AM
    Go Naz, some nice things about RIT.......but a big issue was when Naz was climbing out of the hole, they didn't use their bench, and they looked exhausted in the end.....I give Naz a lot of credit for getting out of the hole (that has happened in many E-8 games this year), but they lost their legs at the end. Naz has a big one against Fisher, I believe Tuesday... I wonder how they will do against the NCAA bound ELITE E-8 Team, who is coached by the two best coaches in the E-8.... Maybe they shouldn't show up....... RELAX FISHERMAN, JUST SOME BAIT BEING THROWN OUT. I happen to agree Fischer is the Team to beat and has been, BUT they have proven they are beatable. It's ok to get excited about your team, but be cautious, SANS Elmira game......they play them for a reason.

    My Tigers have Elmira and Utica this weekend.   A little nervous coming off emotional Naz win.. Elmira is feeling good about themselves, so we need to be careful.  Utica is actually floundering. I thought they had some telant, but I understand they are frustrated.... I hope the Tigers knock them out early.... I am more concerned about Elmira. I think the IC Hartwick game is interesting....... Actually a toss up in mind, BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 11, 2010, 09:30:38 AM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on February 10, 2010, 02:59:23 PM
    Haaaaaters....come out and plaaaaay

    In the beginning of the season I wrote a post that proclaimed that Fisher was "clearly the class of the E8". The posts immediately began to stream-in proclaiming my comment to be misinformed and over exagerated. Most of these responses, I might add, came from Fisher fans. My point was simple. Both the Fisher program and 2009/10 roster were elite. Fisher has won the E8 five (5) of the last seven (7) league titles and had almost an .800 winning percentage over that period. Anybody who does not believe that Fisher is the E8 team of the decade should be admitted to an insane asylum. I said the team this year was going to make waves in NCAA's and win the league. I based this on the fact that they had a talented roster, the best recruiting class in the league by far and unquestionably the best two coaches (Kornaker and Mahannna). Obviously, many people disagreed. I hope the haters, non-believers and those lacking the spine to make a bold prediction have realized the errors in their thinking. Eventhough it is easy to be right when you publicly support a top-level program like Fisher, it still feels good.

    I cannot wait to smack Naz again. Guarantee we win by a larger margin than the last meeting.


    VIVA LA CARDS!!!!

    We'll take this one idiotic comment at a time:

    1.  Is Fisher the best team in the E8? Yes, they probably are.  The coaches unanimously pick them to win the conference.  Everyone on this board predicted them to win the conference.  They returned EVERYONE from a 17 win team that at one point was in the top 25.  I would actually say 20/21 wins may be a little bit of a disappointment for this team.  IC two years ago won 17 games and returned pretty much everyone and came back and went 24-1 in the regular season the following year.  21 is about the amount of wins Fisher should have and easily could have won 22/23/24 games this season with the roster they returned.

    2.  You said they will makes waves in NCAAs.  That is still TBD.

    3. "Best recruiting class by far."  Other posters have touched upon this -- I know IC's freshman class is better than Fisher's and Naz may have a better one as well.  

    4.  Regarding the two coaches-- Kornaker is one of the top coaches in the region and ran a hell of a program long before Mahanna arrived -- With several deep runs into the NCAAs along with an undefeated regular season.  Mahanna may very well be a good coach but Kornaker is the guy in charge and the one responsible for their success.  Mahanna's day may come but there are other young coaches in the region ahead of him for head coaching jobs and quite frankly Fisher was doing fine before he got there.  

    God I hope IC has an "on" shooting day in a few weeks...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 11, 2010, 10:45:35 AM
    FROMAFAR, yeah Naz didn't use their bench during their run. But had they then I don't think they would've made it to overtime. Their bench averages about 8ppg, 7rpg, and in the RIT game contributed 2pts, 3 rebounds. An upperclassmen who could provide help off the bench, Miranda, is nowhere to be found this season after missing last yr with an injury (he was averaging 5pts, 6rpg prior to injury).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 11, 2010, 02:03:55 PM
    E8 ball... yoyr right so they were damned if they did damned if they didn't. I agree about  Miranda. I saw him play when McAdams brother was hurt two years ago, and I thought he gave them good minutes. He was strong and seemed to play smart. I actually was wondering about him early on and then I forgot. Hey NAZ whats up with him. Does injury linger?   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on February 12, 2010, 07:10:33 AM
    wow on behalf of fisher alums everywhere i need to apologize for that post from fisherman
    were any of us that bad when we were in school?
    god
    here is hoping that age and common sense combine
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Go Naz on February 12, 2010, 07:30:08 AM
    FROMAR,  I know that Miranda's injury is not still lingering.  Other than that I'm not really sure where his minutes went this year.  Naz definately needs help off the bench though, I believe they have 3 guys in the top ten for minutes played in the league this year, including 2 of the top 3? (Mcadam and Stephens) Just have to hope theyre in good condition and don't hit a wall.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 12, 2010, 10:55:40 AM
    Quote from: Go Naz on February 12, 2010, 07:30:08 AM
    FROMAR,  I know that Miranda's injury is not still lingering.  Other than that I'm not really sure where his minutes went this year.  Naz definately needs help off the bench though, I believe they have 3 guys in the top ten for minutes played in the league this year, including 2 of the top 3? (Mcadam and Stephens) Just have to hope theyre in good condition and don't hit a wall.

    Some players just don't progress over the course of their careers. Whether they become injured, lose motivation, or peak in their freshman/sophomore years, there are a lot of players who don't progress over the course of their careers.  This occurs at each level of NCAAs year after year at every school in my opinion.  Miranda had talent a few years back so I'm sure the injury played a part in his progress over his career.

    On tap tonight:
    Ithaca @ Hartwick -- RIT is rooting hard for Hartwick and can tie IC in the loss column if Hartwick can pull it off (assuming RIT can take care of Elmira).  Hartwick still has a prayer for the 4th spot but needs IC to lose its final 3 and they need to win their remaining games.  I think this will be a tough game for IC and Hartwick will not go down without a fight. I say IC wins by less than 10 in a tight one.


    RIT @ Elmira -- We'll see if Elmira can give RIT as much trouble as they gave Fisher last week.  Doubtful, but we'll see.  I say RIT wins by 20+ something like 77-56.  Elmira has been struggling to score -- averaging 53 points over its past 6 games (with one game going to OT) and shooting 36% as a team on the season.


    Weak schedule this weekend...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 12, 2010, 01:04:08 PM
    Yes I ama  big Hartwick fan tonight, and hope the Tigers take care of their own business against Elmira.

    Naz I understand your point about progressing, but as stated a lot of minutes being used by too few. This can hurt them as the season is waning down... They all get tired to a degree... Unless he has degressed, rather than he hasn't progressed,  what he had was good enough to spell more playing time.... Now I realize we are dealing with College students and maybe he lost his edge, ( I hope not ) or he just doesn't fit into the coaches rotation. In any event Naz starters could use a few minutes... BUT ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 12, 2010, 08:32:06 PM
    Hartwick was up 21-12 when the video feed ate it
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 12, 2010, 08:58:17 PM
    47-41 Bombers with 13:50 left...all I know about points is that Marcus had at least three threes in the opening part of the second half
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 12, 2010, 10:11:41 PM
    Bombers win 82-72...Marcus scores 26 points on 8-21 shooting. 8-17 from three. Cruz-Rivas finishes the night off with a three-point play on an alley oop. Bombers probably have the 4th spot locked up, barring a Cornell-esque egg-laying against Elmira.

    Marcus' 17 attempts from three have to be in the vicinity of a school record. His eight makes were just two away from tying the record set by Vince Perrine.

    On the subject of the Bombers recent attempts to lose/hang on to the four seed, tonight's game illustrates something that a buddy of mine brought up. Only 7 Bombers got minutes tonight. That's sort of par for the course, as they really only give seven guys playing regular playing time. You wonder if the pace they play at is sustainable for a long season, especially for all these freshman.

    Now, I'm not blaming anyone. You've gotta play the guys that give you the best chance to win and they graduated a ton of minutes last season, but there may just be some tired legs on the Bombers.

    Some of this could be the schedule, but just looking at the first half of the year vs. the 2nd

    1st 12 games: 88.9 PPG
    Since: 80 PPG

    It's not scientific obviously, but that's a pretty big drop in PPG. These guys may just need another year to get their legs under them, and from what I hear, some impact freshman should be able to spell minutes next season, so next year they may be able to keep the pedal to the floor all season long

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 14, 2010, 10:08:25 AM
    If Ithaca loses to Stevens on Friday, and RIT wins out, who gets the 4 seed? Does Ithaca loss to Utica keep them out of the tournament?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 14, 2010, 04:38:36 PM
    ithaca clinches a berth unless Elmira rallies from the 38-7 hole they've dug in the first half...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 14, 2010, 05:11:16 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 14, 2010, 04:38:36 PM
    ithaca clinches a berth unless Elmira rallies from the 38-7 hole they've dug in the first half...

    It was 43-10 Bombers at the half. 48-24 now.

    Ok, so I'm just going to ask: How in the **** did Elmira even stay on the court with St. John Fisher? They missed more easy shots (and more shots badly) than any team I've ever seen at this level. Layups, open jumpers, you name it, they missed it. And most of the time, they weren't close. Maybe it's one of those cold shooting days, but it was pretty tough to watch
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 14, 2010, 05:51:31 PM
    Bombers win going away 81-52.

    Tom Brown goes out in style on senior day, with 19 points and 11 rebounds. He makes seven of his eight shots. Barerra with 17 and 15.

    A 22-0 run by Ithaca over 8:14 in which Elmira missed 18 straight shots really ended it. Elmira went 4-36 overall from the floor in the first half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 14, 2010, 06:27:41 PM
    Hartwick upsets Stevens 65-61 which makes things interesting. If the Bombers beat Stevens on Friday, they would clinch the three seed and play Naz in the first round, which is clearly preferable to Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 15, 2010, 12:11:19 AM
    Bomber 79.... I am A LITTLE CONFUSED ( WHICH IS NOT UNUSUAL), darn that caps key, if IC beats Stevens and Fischer beats NAZ, at that point Stevens is still ahead of NAZ, because Stevens beat Fisher... If my Tigers beat Stevens and you beat Stevens then Stevens is the 4 seed, because they beat Fisher, which would be the tie breaker with us. We need to win out and have you lose two, Stevens and Alfred, OR Stevens to lose all three which would mean they lose to Elmira at home :'(   Do I have that right.........?   Did anyone see the Hartwick game, I find it hard to believe........ I didn't see the game, and don't know what happened. By the fouls against... could it have been senior day at Hartwick....Stevens seemed to outshoot them, but from the foul line Hartwick had the big advantage something like 12 foul shots to 30....But it could also have been that "looking ahead theory of mine"  in any event I need Alfred and or Elmira to help out.   By the way if I have anything backwards here, A little help please. ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 15, 2010, 12:19:15 AM
    Bomber Hold on you can't lose two, you only play once..........If you lose to Stevens and we win out who gets the tie breaker between us? I am guessing you because you said a win against Elmira clinches..... I believe you, but explain.....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 15, 2010, 01:58:39 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 15, 2010, 12:19:15 AM
    Bomber Hold on you can't lose two, you only play once..........If you lose to Stevens and we win out who gets the tie breaker between us? I am guessing you because you said a win against Elmira clinches..... I believe you, but explain.....

    FROMAFAR,
    It's actually very simple. In order to get the 4th seed RIT has to win out and Stevens has to lose out. The best RIT can do is get 10 wins. Both Naz and Ithaca already have 10 wins. If RIT wins out and Naz loses their last 2 games they both finish 10-6 and head to head are 1-1. Going down the teams from top to bottom both Naz and RIT would be tied against Fisher, Stevens and Ithaca. The next team, Hartwick, would be the tiebreaker and Naz is 2-0 against them while RIT is 1-1 so RIT cannot beat Naz. In the matchup against Ithaca, it's more of the same. If RIT wins out and Ithaca loses it's remaining game they both finish 10-6. Head to head they're 1-1. Going down the standings Ithaca and RIT would be tied against Fisher, Naz, and Stevens, but once again Ithaca is 2-0 against Hartwick and RIT is1-1 and Ithaca wins the tiebreaker. If RIT  defeats Stevens and finishes in a tie with the Ducks at either 9-7 or 10-6 Stevens wins the tiebreaker by virtue of a 1-1 record against Fisher vs RIT's 0-2 record against Fisher. So a Stevens win or RIT loss and the Tigers are eliminated. They can only get in with a 10-6 record and Stevens has to end up at 9-7. In the event there is a 3 or 4 way tie at 10-6 between these teams (slim chance, but it could happen) RIT would again lose any tiebreaker. Hope that clarifies things for you. Sorry for the bad news. I could see the possibility of Stevens losing to Ithaca and RIT but there's just no way they can lose to Elmira in Hoboken.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 15, 2010, 08:52:23 AM
    Magic, actually I had that in my head BUT when Bomber 79...said an Ithaca win clinches a first round game against Naz, I was thrown off... If Naz loses to Fisher and Stevens wins 2 of the last 3 ( giving Bomber his win against Stevens.... be careful Bomber) Stevens should get the tie breaker over NAZ thus Naz will finish 4........So  a Bomber win over Stevens does not mean a Bomber NAZ match up...................Unless Naz can beat Fischer. Well like I said barely breathing, and we did it to ourselves no excuses. Although I hate leaving the e-8, it will be interesting on the basketball side of the ledger, to see how we fair in our new digs next year.....

    I think the e=8 tourney is going to be exciting... Close games and anyone can win..........BUT :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 15, 2010, 10:35:21 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 15, 2010, 08:52:23 AM
    Magic, actually I had that in my head BUT when Bomber 79...said an Ithaca win clinches a first round game against Naz, I was thrown off... If Naz loses to Fisher and Stevens wins 2 of the last 3 ( giving Bomber his win against Stevens.... be careful Bomber) Stevens should get the tie breaker over NAZ thus Naz will finish 4........So  a Bomber win over Stevens does not mean a Bomber NAZ match up...................Unless Naz can beat Fischer. Well like I said barely breathing, and we did it to ourselves no excuses. Although I hate leaving the e-8, it will be interesting on the basketball side of the ledger, to see how we fair in our new digs next year.....

    I think the e=8 tourney is going to be exciting... Close games and anyone can win..........BUT :)

    Yes, Naz can finish 4th. I should have clarafied, that if the Bombers beat Stevens, they would finish third, which, right now, would give them Naz, but regardless, allows them to avoid Fisher in the 1st round.

    BTW, bigger shocker this season: Utica over IC, Wick over Stevens or Elmira getting to OT against Fisher?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 15, 2010, 11:20:45 AM
    Gottcha Bomber...

    I say the Elmira Fisher game.Why........./

    IC plays with fire, and the are young, they can get burned, at basically anytime..  Stevens had the Senior night syndrome... usually let the seniors have their way.. key players in foul trouble, and no one in foul trouble from home team.... at least looks that way in the box score... I know good teams can sometimes overcome that, but they also had that looking ahead theory, which I strongly believe in....so upset yes, but I could see it happening.   Elmira that close to fisher after what they have shown this year...... That would be my choice.....

    While on the subject let me offer this OPINION.

    Fisher did what they were supposed to.
    Stevens a much improved team... much smarter on the court, and multiple threats.
    Naz, I think a little better than expected, not much after McAdams, but they seem to be in most games.
    IC, better than expected, young but talented.  Will make young mistakes, but can also beat anyone on any given night.
    RIT, HUGE dissapointment. Maybe because I expected more. But One man Carson, cannot make that big a difference... I guess it did. We had experience, but couldn't always be counted on. We need that point guard...
    Hartwick, about where I expected. Not an easy out But certainly not a threat day in and day out.
    Alfred, dissapointment, ball not spread around enough, did not play as a team.
    Utica, about where I expected. Players seem to still have that chip on their shoulder, and are surprised when they lose, yet they keep losing. They are seem to be too chatty on the court with opposing players as well. That's not good.

    Elmira, wow, I thought a few more wins, but they really are reeling. Nice effort against Fisher, but that was a freak.. I'll give them another year to straighten out.

    That's FROMAFARS take ( Sorry PEP, using your third person gig). BUT ;)

















    Stoppera shot too much, and didn't let the supporting cast help. Coach has to fix that.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 16, 2010, 10:53:30 AM
    So lets see if I get this straight:

    IC beats Stevens Friday and they avoid Fisher.  They win and can play Nazareth if Nazareth can win one of their remaining 2 games (Fisher, Alfred).  If IC wins and Naz loses both then IC gets the 2 seed and plays Stevens (I'm assuming Stevens can beat Elmria to clinch a berth, sorry FROMAFAR).  Or if IC loses and Naz loses two then IC would get the 3 seed over Naz due to Naz (potentially) losing to Alfred.  I know that last scenario is unlikely but throwing it out there...

    Most likely scenario:

    1 - Fisher
    2 - Nazareth
    3/4 - Stevens/IC is a pick 'em this Friday --  Stevens might have a slight edge due to home court advantage but IC did beat them earlier in the season.  Should be a good game with a playoff atmosphere since both teams would prefer to avoid Fisher on their home court in round one.  I'll be in attendance and Ithaca typically brings alot of alumni from the NYC area so they should be well represented.


    And I would definitely say Elmira hanging with Fisher is a much bigger surprise.  Fisher is a top 25 team and Elmira is 377th out of 407 in D3 based upon win percentage. Elmira had them beat too - up 3 with under 30 seconds to play. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 16, 2010, 11:18:25 AM
    According to Massey's rankings if Elmira had hung on and beat Fisher it would have been the biggest upset in all of college basketball for the entire season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 16, 2010, 12:06:41 PM
    Bomber, what if IC beats Stevens, and Stevens beats RIT and Elmira.... Naz loses to Fisher and beats Alfred.  I think in that case Naz is 4 and Stevens and IC play in 2-3 game........ Naz will then face Fisher in opener. 1-4. IF IC loses to Stevens the have 6 losses.... If NAZ splits last two, (good possibiliy) then IC is 4th. ...Stevens splits with Elmira and RIT, That would give Stevens 5 losses, IC 6 losses, and NAZ would have 5 loses.
    So realistically, IC needs to beat Stevens to have a chance to avoid Fisher,.... Two Stevens wins and one Naz loss, clinches 2-3 spot for Stevens and NAZ loss puts them 4 unless Stevens beats IC.  I think that's it. If Stevens loses out and RIT wins out we are in.........   ::)   I will almost definitely be at the RIT game Sunday. Friday is tough for me. I'll see what I can do... ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 16, 2010, 01:47:04 PM
    What's weird with this tournament is that there's no difference between the #2 seed and #3 seed anyway. To a degree, it's just about avoiding a match-up as long as possible--or at all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 16, 2010, 02:39:14 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 16, 2010, 12:06:41 PM
    Bomber, what if IC beats Stevens, and Stevens beats RIT and Elmira.... Naz loses to Fisher and beats Alfred.  I think in that case Naz is 4 and Stevens and IC play in 2-3 game........ Naz will then face Fisher in opener. 1-4. IF IC loses to Stevens the have 6 losses.... If NAZ splits last two, (good possibiliy) then IC is 4th. ...Stevens splits with Elmira and RIT, That would give Stevens 5 losses, IC 6 losses, and NAZ would have 5 loses.
    So realistically, IC needs to beat Stevens to have a chance to avoid Fisher,.... Two Stevens wins and one Naz loss, clinches 2-3 spot for Stevens and NAZ loss puts them 4 unless Stevens beats IC.  I think that's it. If Stevens loses out and RIT wins out we are in.........   ::)   I will almost definitely be at the RIT game Sunday. Friday is tough for me. I'll see what I can do... ;)   

    In that case everyone is 11-5.  Anyone care to explain how a 3-way tiebreaker works cause I dont know. How would Naz get the short end of the stick? They split with IC and Stevens.  Is it because IC would have a better combined record against Naz/Stevens (3-1), which would give them second place.  So then it would be between Naz/Stevens and since Stevens beat Fisher they would get 3rd? ???

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 16, 2010, 06:34:45 PM
    That would make the most sense, but we have seen in the past the rediculous tie breaker in the E8 of your record vs the worst team in the conference up to the best. So, I believe, if Naz, IC, and Stevens all end up with the same record, Ithaca's loss to Utica would make them the 4 seed.

    Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but that is what I think.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 16, 2010, 09:13:39 PM
    Fisher looks all out of sorts, and can not get out of their own way on offense. Naz is shooting well and has a 9 point lead with 3:47 left in the first half. Argh...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 16, 2010, 09:57:13 PM
    Fisher opened the second half on a tear and was up as much as 11 early in the half. With about 8 to go, Fisher is up 6. Still not completely fluid on offense, but much better.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 16, 2010, 10:24:11 PM
    Fisher didn't play the cleanest game tonight, especially in the first half, but they had enough to pull out a win at Naz by 6.

    I have to say that I think the E8 is a much better league than I (and others) have given them credit for this year. I don't think any of the teams are flawless obviously, but Fisher is a solid team. IC can beat anyone on any given night, Naz is a better team than their record indicates from what I have seen (and they have probably the best player in the state), and Stevens is a very solid team. I don't know how many leagues can claim that much talent in the top 4 spots in the league.

    I am not saying the E8 is the best league in the country. Far from it, but I don't think it is a down year after all. I was impressed with Naz again tonight. The conference tournament next weekend should be a lot of fun.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 17, 2010, 09:30:32 AM
    SJFCARDS.... here's how I see tie breaker when all three are tied at 5 losses..

    1st tie breaker is head to head.

    IC would be 3-1 vs. Ducks and NAZ
    NAZ would be 2-2 vs. Ducks and IC
    Stevens would be 1-3 vs. NAZ and IC......

    This is assuming they all have 5 losses.

    Thus
    IC = 2
    NAZ = 3
    Stevens = 4

    The following is assuming Stevens beats Elmira ( not a given)
    and NAZ beats Alfred ( never know)

    If Stevens beats IC... IC is 4....Stevens is 2.. NAZ is 3

    If Stevens losses to IC and beats RIT, Stevens is 3, and NAZ is 4.

    Stevens needs to split with IC and RIT to avoid 4 slot..... Although maybe 4 is not that ominous... except AT FISHER IS TOUGH...


    Back to the league.... I agree, the league really isn't down.  look at my Tigers. I still say we have talent, less Carson, BUT the rest of the top teams have certainly inproved. I think we are just victims of the strength of the top 4. Fisher and Stevens are much better than they were last year. Naz has certainly played more consistent than last year and can knock off any of the top 3. IC may not be as good as last year but certainly better than expected. Hartwick is dangerous..... The bottom teams Alfred, Utica and Elmira have not done well, and that might speak to the strength of the top. I think this league is certainly as good as any in the East, and the top 4 can play with anyone. I would love to see two make the NCAA's. I really feel they will make a statement........ I would love to see a Fisher vs. Williams or Stevens vs. Medaille down the road.....

    I can be wrong about seedings, if I am let me know... ;) 




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 17, 2010, 10:19:34 AM
    FROMAFAR -- That sounds about right with the seedings.  Basically each team still controls their own fate in regards to whether or not they will get the 4 seed and play Fisher in round one -- which is all they should be worried about.  Take care of business and then everything should take care of itself.  I would say IC wants to play Nazareth since they beat them by 30+ earleir in the season.  Stevens handed Fisher its only loss but I would guess they would want IC -- they had them down 12 with 5 to go @ IC.  Nazareth probably wants Stevens since they played them tight both times.  Fisher is most likely hoping for IC -- they handled them pretty easily both games whereas Naz game them two tough games and Stevens beat them.  Any thoughts?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 17, 2010, 10:53:13 AM
    Actually NAZ's only control is beat Alfred. If Stevens loses to IC and beats RIT, NAZ is 4.  So they need some help to avoid 4..... But again with these 4 teams who knows what is the best spot........ I truly believe each one can beat the other or lose to the other... There are no secrets about what to expect. I will say this, Stevens should travel the day before. Driving up the same day takes a bit of a toll, especially if they get to play 2 games.... Bomber your analysis as to each possible preference.... BUT we all know it all comes down to who's hot and who's not........who makes their shots, who doesn't, who stays out of foul trouble and who stays healthy... and hopefully the ref's come up big and treat the tourney games as a neutral site. I wish all the teams good luck, and stay healthy.  ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 17, 2010, 11:20:30 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 17, 2010, 10:53:13 AM
    Actually NAZ's only control is beat Alfred. If Stevens loses to IC and beats RIT, NAZ is 4.  So they need some help to avoid 4..... But again with these 4 teams who knows what is the best spot........ I truly believe each one can beat the other or lose to the other... There are no secrets about what to expect. I will say this, Stevens should travel the day before. Driving up the same day takes a bit of a toll, especially if they get to play 2 games.... Bomber your analysis as to each possible preference.... BUT we all know it all comes down to who's hot and who's not........who makes their shots, who doesn't, who stays out of foul trouble and who stays healthy... and hopefully the ref's come up big and treat the tourney games as a neutral site. I wish all the teams good luck, and stay healthy.  ;) 

    Ahh you are correct thanks for looking out.  I forgot Naz lost last night -- they controlled their fate until last night that is...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: the golden flyer on February 17, 2010, 11:54:48 AM
    FROMAFAR, I believe RIT isn't leaving the E8 until after next year. According to this article it looks like you will be sticking around for one more year...

    http://www.ritathletics.com/news/2009/6/17/GEN_0617092501.aspx
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 17, 2010, 01:14:09 PM
    WOW........... another shot at the E-8 crown........ ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on February 17, 2010, 01:14:50 PM
    Exciting game last night between Fisher and Naz. I'm loving the pace at which the cards play. Still have some turnover issues though. There is no debating the fact that Mcadam is a superstar. I think fisher did a decent job containing him though. Will cornett is a pleasure to watch. Reminds of a mix between Antoine Wright, Eddie Jones and Erick Murdoch.

    As for the E8 this year, I agree with some of the rpevious posts. I think the league is doing well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 17, 2010, 02:58:19 PM
    http://www.empire8.com/MBasket-Schedule.php

    Scroll all the way to the bottom--- looks like the E8 was confident in only one team making the conference tournament when they made the schedule...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 17, 2010, 05:19:19 PM
    Quote from: the golden flyer on February 17, 2010, 11:54:48 AM
    FROMAFAR, I believe RIT isn't leaving the E8 until after next year. According to this article it looks like you will be sticking around for one more year...

    http://www.ritathletics.com/news/2009/6/17/GEN_0617092501.aspx

    Interesting. I thought RIT is on their way out after this season, but I am glad they will be around one more year. They are a quality team in most sports, and they obviously bring up the academic standards of the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 17, 2010, 05:30:21 PM
    New NCAA Regional Rankings have been released for games through Feb.14th.
    Here is the East Region:


    East Region     In-Region Record   Overall Record
    1. St. John Fisher 18-4 19-4
    2. Medaille 20-2 21-2
    3. Oneonta State 17-5 18-5
    4. Stevens Institute 17-5 17-5
    5. New York University 14-7 15-7
    6. Plattsburgh State 13-6 15-7
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 18, 2010, 08:05:40 AM
    Yes glad to have another year inE-8...  As I said, getting over to Stevens to see some games is soooo convenient, since working in City. Although I haven't gotten to many this year......I will be there Sunday, I hope. Would love to go Friday but doesn't look good. On the NAZ- Fisher game... McAdams takes 7 foul shots. That's reasonable........ when he takes 14- 15 or more then they are tough to beat.... you need to keep him off the line.....The Hartwick, Utica game..... something wrong when one player takes 27 shots... Blazek..... that tells me something about the team as a team.... Not blaming Blazek, but tough to be consistent with one option. Anyway... should be some good posts after the smoke clears a bit........ 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 18, 2010, 10:46:22 AM
    Blazek shooting 27 shots to get 32 points -- thats taking a page out of Iverson's book. 

    We've talked the playoff scenarios to death but haven't said a peep about the actual Stevens/IC game.  Last time around IC rallied from a 12 points deficit with 5 to play (still down 9 with 2:30) to win a stunner by 2.  IC got big games from Will Gaskins (13), Oztemel (14+10 rebounds), Marcus, and Rossi.  Stevens really shot themselves in the foot from the line - 9-20 overall (Simon Smith was 4-14 himself). 

    I haven't seen Stevens play this year so I'm not very familiar with their style. Hopefully IC can shoot well and come away with a tough road win.  By the way, anyone planning on going to the game it starts at 8 not 6 like the schedule says -- wouldn't want to subject anyone to sitting through the women's game who didn't want to...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 18, 2010, 11:08:44 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 18, 2010, 10:46:22 AM
    Blazek shooting 27 shots to get 32 points -- thats taking a page out of Iverson's book. 

    We've talked the playoff scenarios to death but haven't said a peep about the actual Stevens/IC game.  Last time around IC rallied from a 12 points deficit with 5 to play (still down 9 with 2:30) to win a stunner by 2.  IC got big games from Will Gaskins (13), Oztemel (14+10 rebounds), Marcus, and Rossi.  Stevens really shot themselves in the foot from the line - 9-20 overall (Simon Smith was 4-14 himself). 

    I haven't seen Stevens play this year so I'm not very familiar with their style. Hopefully IC can shoot well and come away with a tough road win.  By the way, anyone planning on going to the game it starts at 8 not 6 like the schedule says -- wouldn't want to subject anyone to sitting through the women's game who didn't want to...

    Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the women play. They've got a shot to be the first E8 team (for women) to go 16-0 in conference play
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 18, 2010, 11:48:43 AM
    I don't much about the women either BUT looking at the two teams schedules, and results, looks like Stevens women have the best chance of spoiling that 16-0....... BUT what do I know ;D  As far as the men's.. style I have seen few games this year. They are disciplined and organized on the court. They shoot well, and rebound OK... Play hard defense. I did not see the first meeting but appears the foul shooting did them in and I would guess many of those foul shots came late.  They have 3 legitimate scoring threats Smith-Greco- and Cutri. Smith may be the most under-rated player in the league. His shooting % is very good, I believe, and he may be the quickest Center in the league. Probably should a 4 but plays well with back to the basket. Cutri can shoot lights out from 3 and quick to the hole, and of course Greco, who I believe put the fire and confidence back into this team. Higgans and Masone it appears are real tough and strong and can hurt you on both ends. They can combine for 15 points or more.. IC has plenty of talent and when they are on, they can beat anyone. It should actually be a very interesting game. I don't think I can make it.... trying but going to be tough.  ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 18, 2010, 10:13:35 PM
    I love that seedings will come down to the final weekend. The four teams that will make it into the tournament have been decided for some time, but it will be interesting to see how the matchups work out. I think any team can win next weekend.

    Personally, I am a little concerned about Fisher tomorrow. I know Utica is not a huge threat, but after clinching the #1 seed, and beating Naz on the road this week, I can see Fisher not playing well. One slip up could be the difference between an at large bid and a disapointing end to the season. Could also be the difference between a home game in the tournament and a long road trip.

    Great Hockey game tonight between Canada and Switzerland by the way.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 19, 2010, 09:30:40 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 18, 2010, 10:13:35 PM
    I love that seedings will come down to the final weekend. The four teams that will make it into the tournament have been decided for some time, but it will be interesting to see how the matchups work out. I think any team can win next weekend.

    Personally, I am a little concerned about Fisher tomorrow. I know Utica is not a huge threat, but after clinching the #1 seed, and beating Naz on the road this week, I can see Fisher not playing well. One slip up could be the difference between an at large bid and a disapointing end to the season. Could also be the difference between a home game in the tournament and a long road trip.

    Great Hockey game tonight between Canada and Switzerland by the way.

    I wouldn't worry much about Utica.  They seemingly have packed it in since beating Ithaca and have lost 9 of 10 overall.  their only win in that span is a win against Elmira where they scored 46 points!  Plus there is no way Fisher would even come close to losing to a team 2-12 in the E8..... oh wait  :P

    And yes, great hockey game.  Too bad the Swiss couldn't finish it off.  I don't like the format of the hockey olympics. The round robin format doesn't reward teams for big upsets/poor play since all 12 teams qualify for the medal rounds. Even if Switzerland won, the absolute worst Canada would do is have to play an extra round in the medal rounds.  I hope the USA gets spanked Sunday so they don't waste their one monumental upset on a game that doesn't really mean all that much.  Yes, the winner gets one of the four byes but I hope they save their magic for the medal rounds.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 19, 2010, 10:50:12 AM
    Any thoughts on RIT Hartwick tonight......... We can't afford to look ahead, obviously, but the temptation is there.....They beat us in their Gym, now we playu them there. Thank goodness they got rid of that senior game already........ Any thought on the IC-Stevens game, not discussed already. Hard to believe the E-8 Torney is a weeka way. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 19, 2010, 12:54:56 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 19, 2010, 09:30:40 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 18, 2010, 10:13:35 PM
    I love that seedings will come down to the final weekend. The four teams that will make it into the tournament have been decided for some time, but it will be interesting to see how the matchups work out. I think any team can win next weekend.

    Personally, I am a little concerned about Fisher tomorrow. I know Utica is not a huge threat, but after clinching the #1 seed, and beating Naz on the road this week, I can see Fisher not playing well. One slip up could be the difference between an at large bid and a disapointing end to the season. Could also be the difference between a home game in the tournament and a long road trip.

    Great Hockey game tonight between Canada and Switzerland by the way.

    I wouldn't worry much about Utica.  They seemingly have packed it in since beating Ithaca and have lost 9 of 10 overall.  their only win in that span is a win against Elmira where they scored 46 points!  Plus there is no way Fisher would even come close to losing to a team 2-12 in the E8..... oh wait  :P

    And yes, great hockey game.  Too bad the Swiss couldn't finish it off.  I don't like the format of the hockey olympics. The round robin format doesn't reward teams for big upsets/poor play since all 12 teams qualify for the medal rounds. Even if Switzerland won, the absolute worst Canada would do is have to play an extra round in the medal rounds.  I hope the USA gets spanked Sunday so they don't waste their one monumental upset on a game that doesn't really mean all that much.  Yes, the winner gets one of the four byes but I hope they save their magic for the medal rounds.

    The weird thing about the hockey is having to root against players you normally root for in the NHL. I'm a Rangers fan, and honestly would rather Sweden wins gold than the USA.

    As far as Fisher goes, I wouldn't be worried. I think the Elmira game may actually help refocus them because now they know they can be beaten by anyone if they don't bring their A game and that they can't slack off.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 19, 2010, 09:39:32 PM
    Bombers with a statement win against Stevens 76-63. Cruz-Rivas hits for 23, Barrera has 15 and 14 and Sean Rossi has 17 with 8 assists.

    Bombers now avoid Fisher in the 1st round of the E8 playoffs. Huge win for Ithaca, which was just 5-5 on the road prior to that game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 19, 2010, 10:11:11 PM
    Fisher was not great again tonight but was able to win again, by 7 over Utica. Big night for Witte and Norsen. Now they need to get ready for the E8 tourny.

    I am wondering if/how much better the Fisher team would be if Ozell Franklin was still on the team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 21, 2010, 02:52:41 PM
    RIT leads Stevens 50-44 at the half. Brendan Harder with 14 pts for RIT and Russ Thompson with 14 pts for Stevens.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 21, 2010, 03:59:45 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 21, 2010, 02:52:41 PM
    RIT leads Stevens 50-44 at the half. Brendan Harder with 14 pts for RIT and Russ Thompson with 14 pts for Stevens.

    Should RIT go on to beat Stevens, then Stevens beats Elmira, giving both RIT and Stevens 10-6 league marks, who wins the tiebreaker?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 21, 2010, 04:21:24 PM
    Final from McLane.....Nazareth 64, Alfred 51. Saxons pull to within 49-43 with 11 mins to go, but Flyers outscore AU 15-8 the rest of the way.

    Alfred finishes season 4-12 in E8, 11-14 overall....another step in the right direction for AU.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 21, 2010, 04:28:07 PM
    RIT wins at Stevens, 91-75. Ducks sinking, in a tailspin....lose three straight with Elmira still to play.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 21, 2010, 05:46:52 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 21, 2010, 03:59:45 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 21, 2010, 02:52:41 PM
    RIT leads Stevens 50-44 at the half. Brendan Harder with 14 pts for RIT and Russ Thompson with 14 pts for Stevens.

    Should RIT go on to beat Stevens, then Stevens beats Elmira, giving both RIT and Stevens 10-6 league marks, who wins the tiebreaker?


    Pep,
    I believe Stevens would win the tiebreaker based on their 1-1 record against St. John Fisher, while, RIT is 0-2 against Fisher. RIT's only hope is if Elmira somehow manages to upset Stevens in Hoboken. Slim chance of that happening.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 21, 2010, 09:46:15 PM
    Correct, Stevens is in with a win against Elmira. I was at the RIT Stevens game tonight...... I am not going to blow my horn, because RIT dug a deep hole they couldn't get out of this year. In fairness to Stevens I think RIT could have beaten the Celtics tonight. Everything we threw up went in. I think we shot over 60% from the field and maybe 45% from 3's.... Everything worked for us. Stevens ran into a buzz saw.......... We had :) guys hitting 3's that I believe shouldn't have taken 3's..... The good news we are basically all back next year and need to build off this finish....I will try to get to game Tuesday against Elmira..     who knows..... 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 22, 2010, 09:13:46 AM
    Yes crazier things have happened but who knows if Elmira already packed their bags for the summer.  They did just beat Utica - who I feel is an enomous disappointment.  They really took a step in the wrong direction this year.  But back to things that matter -- IC looked pretty solid against Stevens Friday.  Stevens did not impress me at all and IC played a solid overall game -- winning by15 going away.  Stevens takes wayyy too many 18-20 foot jumpshots.  If you're going to shoot from that far move back two steps and make it a 3.  Either get into the lane for a 10-15 footer or move back and take a three.

    IC played solid and Cruz played one of the better games of his season.  Barera was solid and Rossi played strong down the stretch.  He gets into the lane pretty easily off the pick and roll and will only get better finishing as he matures.  He should do what McAdam does in regard to his 3 point shot -- take 2-3 a game to keep people honest.  He seemed to be most effective getting into the paint as opposed to taking long 3's. 

    It looks like IC got what they wanted -- a rematch with Nazareth.  Hopefully last year's returners still have a chip on their shoulders from the E8 game @ IC last March.  GO BOMBERS!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 22, 2010, 02:13:32 PM
    Well with playoffs around the corner that means the season awards will be coming out this week.  Here are my picks:

    POY – Corey McAdam, Naz
    Has to be him with the career stats he put up over the past four years.
    ROY – Sean Rossi, IC
    Leading the nation in assists..... as a freshman.  If IC keeps the uptempo offense he could end up in top 5 career assists all-time.  Will end up with 200+ this season (has 198 and national record is 917).
    COY – Kornaker, St. John Fisher
    FISHERMAN almost convinced me to present the award for the first time to an assistant coach  ;) (Ryan Mahannah) but my gut had me go with Kornaker since Fisher won the league by 4 games.

    First team
    G – Corey McAdam, Naz
    G – Mark Blazek, Hartwick
    G – Matt Newman, SJF
    F – Phil Barera, IC
    F – Michael Wopperer, SJF

    Second Team
    G – Chris Cruz,  IC
    G – Jordan Marcus, IC
    F – Brendan Harder, RIT
    F – Pat Goodman, UC
    F – Simon Smith, Stevens

    Other possible: James Patterson, Jordan Koch, Jordan Gettings, Mike Cutri, Tyshun Stephens, Scott Young, Sean Rossi, Greg Lothridge

    Some of these were a shot in the dark since I haven't seen everyone play. Had to give Fisher two players since they ran away with the league.  They probably won't get two on the first team because no one average over 12ppg.  Could trade Marcus for Newman on first team very easily but Fisher did keep him in check and won both.  I think Barera undoubtedly deserves first team – 4th in scoring and leading rebounder while shooting 66% from the field. Anyone I'm missing out on?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 22, 2010, 03:20:07 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 21, 2010, 04:21:24 PM
    Final from McLane.....Nazareth 64, Alfred 51. Saxons pull to within 49-43 with 11 mins to go, but Flyers outscore AU 15-8 the rest of the way.

    Alfred finishes season 4-12 in E8, 11-14 overall....another step in the right direction for AU.



    I guess technically it's an improvement (last year they were 3-13 and 8-17), but the league wins were against Utica (2 wins by a total of 7 points), Elmira (1 win by 19 points at home) and Hartwick ( 1 win by 2 points at home). The only reason the Saxons finished 7th, 3 games behind Hartwick, was because Elmira (2-13, soon to be 14, in the E8, 4-20 overall) and Utica (2-14 E8, 7-18 overall) are also in the Empire Eight.

    Alfred also beat the Keuka (8-15 overall), Penn State-York (11-14), Hilbert (3-22), Cazenovia (2-22), Penn State-Abington (5-19) and Penn State-Wilkes Barre (15-10).

    Let's recap, a win against 1 team with a winning record.

    Last season they beat a a 14-14 Wells College, a 15-12 Hartwick and a 17-10 St. John Fisher, among their eight wins, so two teams with winning records and one at .500.

    So, yeah, technically an improvement, but you may be the only believer. The bottom line is that Murphy damaged that program so much that it's going to take a long time for it to recover. And a guy that was out of basketball before getting this job (Wellman had no job, not even at the last school he was at, and Paulsen hadn't offered to bring him along from Williams to Bucknell) isn't going to be the one to do it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on February 22, 2010, 04:21:27 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 22, 2010, 02:13:32 PM
    Well with playoffs around the corner that means the season awards will be coming out this week.  Here are my picks:

    POY – Corey McAdam, Naz
    Has to be him with the career stats he put up over the past four years.
    ROY – Sean Rossi, IC
    Leading the nation in assists..... as a freshman.  If IC keeps the uptempo offense he could end up in top 5 career assists all-time.  Will end up with 200+ this season (has 198 and national record is 917).
    COY – Kornaker, St. John Fisher
    FISHERMAN almost convinced me to present the award for the first time to an assistant coach  ;) (Ryan Mahannah) but my gut had me go with Kornaker since Fisher won the league by 4 games.

    First team
    G – Corey McAdam, Naz
    G – Mark Blazek, Hartwick
    G – Matt Newman, SJF
    F – Phil Barera, IC
    F – Michael Wopperer, SJF

    Second Team
    G – Chris Cruz,  IC
    G – Jordan Marcus, IC
    F – Brendan Harder, RIT
    F – Pat Goodman, UC
    F – Simon Smith, Stevens

    Other possible: James Patterson, Jordan Koch, Jordan Gettings, Mike Cutri, Tyshun Stephens, Scott Young, Sean Rossi, Greg Lothridge

    Some of these were a shot in the dark since I haven't seen everyone play. Had to give Fisher two players since they ran away with the league.  They probably won't get two on the first team because no one average over 12ppg.  Could trade Marcus for Newman on first team very easily but Fisher did keep him in check and won both.  I think Barera undoubtedly deserves first team – 4th in scoring and leading rebounder while shooting 66% from the field. Anyone I'm missing out on?



    Bomber3 -

    Good job on these predictions. Although I'm sure the 1st and 2nd teams won't shake out exactly as you have them (they are impossible to predict precisely) I don't disagree with any of your predictions. McAdam has been a pleasure to watch and will deservedly get MVP. Personally, I don't particularly like Rossi as much as most people but there is no denying he can play a little and his stats, as you pointed out, are tough to argue against. In terms of the coach of the year, you have to go with Kornaker. I don't think acknowledging him to be the best coach is really a decision that needs to be decided by your gut, rather common sense. Also, as a side note, my post earlier about "the best two coaches in the league" was meant to mean the best two coaches together on one bench. I didn't make the point clearly, my bad. I did appreciate your substantive post arguing against my post though. It refreshing compared to a lot of the overly-sensitive, fake outrage responses it got from the politically correct crowd on this board. As a biased observer of the league, I do think it's a shame Fisher will probably only get two 1st and 2nd teamers. It's the curse of being a "team" I suppose.

    VIVA LA CARDS!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 22, 2010, 04:54:38 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on February 22, 2010, 03:20:07 PM
    So, yeah, technically an improvement, but you may be the only believer. The bottom line is that Murphy damaged that program so much that it's going to take a long time for it to recover. And a guy that was out of basketball before getting this job (Wellman had no job, not even at the last school he was at, and Paulsen hadn't offered to bring him along from Williams to Bucknell) isn't going to be the one to do it.

    Pep would argue it's a bit early to select a jury much less a jury declare a verdict on Wellman at AU. Wellman did an admirable recruiting job and will likely continue to build on that. Please remember that Wellman inherited the AU team in 2008-09 without the benefit of recruiting. His 2009-2010 included his first-ever recruits...Pep is confident that the Saxons will continue to mature and improve.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 22, 2010, 08:16:33 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on February 22, 2010, 04:21:27 PM
    I do think it's a shame Fisher will probably only get two 1st and 2nd teamers. It's the curse of being a "team" I suppose.

    Would not be the first time Fisher won the league by a few games, and did not have more than one or two players on the first team. I would much rather have the league title. The undefeated team from a few years ago only had 1 I think, and they probably could have had all 5. It is really not that big a deal.

    Fisher has always been a deep team with a lot of top talent. Not having it "recognized" has never caused any trouble winning the league.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mrhoopfan on February 23, 2010, 06:17:51 AM

    As for All league predictions, Anthony Terry(RIT) should definitely be on the squad. Probably the most explosive guard in the league
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 23, 2010, 08:58:29 AM
    Bomber I have a few different picks than you.... Basically the same, but you left out a couple of key players. You also included few that I cannot understand, BUT I won't speak to thios ebecause I don't want to heurt anyones feelings and who am I anyway.

    COY hard to argue Korniker, but Hurley should be given some consideration. This team was supposed to be way down from a 13-13 team a year ago that was supposed to be much better. 17-7 (maybe 18-7) Tournament spot, only team to beat Fisher at Fisher... Consideration but Kornicker certainly did a great job. 15-1, no real standout players but good team concept..

    POY no argument with Corey Mc Adam,. but shouldn't use his 4 year stats. Use this years which is what it is all about... They are good enough.

    ROY I guess Rossi.. no one else out there.. If he learns how to shoot he could be a good player.

    I am looking at the teams in the tourney and stats. Players who are in top ten overall stats, multiple categories as well as being important to their team making the tourney. I know there are good players on the other teams but sometimes stats get inflated because they may be the only one who shoots etc., and gets inflated minutes. Look at Fisher, they spread the minutes and that would certainly lower individual stats, but they certainly contribute to success.  I don't want any player to take offense because this is just my opinion, it means nothing....


    First Team

    G Corey McAdam      NAZ
    G Chris Cruz             IC
    F  Simon Smith         Stevens
    F Michael Wopperer SJF
    F Brendan Harder    RIT

    Second Team

    G Jordan Marcus      IC
    G Matt Newman       SJF
    G George Greco       Stevens
    F  Jordan Koch         SJF
    F  Phil Barera           RIT

    Other possible's.... I think you have a few I can't see, BUT again, don't want to point out... that wouldn't be fair. 

    I would add Corletta, from NAZ as well....

    ;)


















    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 23, 2010, 09:00:01 AM
    Sorry guys.......... I wish Barera was on RIT........ last post had him on Tigers... LOL........I told you what do I know ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 23, 2010, 10:40:20 AM
    Care to justify how you left Barera off first team?

    4th in the league in scoring at 16.6ppg (150th in Nation)
    Leading league in rebounding at 10.1 rpg (28th in Nation)
    Broke single season E8 FG% record 66.3% (5th in Nation)
    Averaged a double-double where he is playing the 5 where in reality he is more of a 4 (only 6'4"). 

    I have no problem with the others but I can't see how he wouldn't be first team.  Other than McAdam I think he was the easiest pick.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 23, 2010, 10:51:53 AM
    Only justification was it was a home job by me.  :-[Harder probably should be on the second team... as a matter of fact, I had it that way originally, hence the RIT next to Barera, on first post...  Probably could interchange a few on my Team 1 and 2 BUT I do believe those 10 are truly the reason each of the top 5 teams (I included RIT of course) are where they are. They all have solid stats and without each and every one their team takes a big step back...

    Good luck Bomber next week, don't sell NAZ short.... They are close to home and could surprise..... I am trying like heck to get to Stevens tonight, I'll touch base tomorrow one way or the other. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 23, 2010, 11:17:23 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 23, 2010, 10:51:53 AM
    Only justification was it was a home job by me.  :-[Harder probably should be on the second team... as a matter of fact, I had it that way originally, hence the RIT next to Barera, on first post...  Probably could interchange a few on my Team 1 and 2 BUT I do believe those 10 are truly the reason each of the top 5 teams (I included RIT of course) are where they are. They all have solid stats and without each and every one their team takes a big step back...

    Good luck Bomber next week, don't sell NAZ short.... They are close to home and could surprise..... I am trying like heck to get to Stevens tonight, I'll touch base tomorrow one way or the other. ;)

    Gotcha -- thats understandable.  I think him and McAdam are locks and Wopperer is pretty close to it since Fisher was so dominant.  Not a fan of Blazek? He averaged 20+ and I know he took alot of shots but somone on Hartwick needed to shoot.  In retrospect Gooman shouldn't be on my list and Terry or Koch should replace him.  Utica was BAD (yet somehow beat IC) and a two win team won't get anyone on the all-conference team unless they're playing 5-on-3.

    Not sure who I'm rooting for tonight @ Stevens.  RIT is on fire but Stevens was the only team to knock off Fisher.   I would probably say RIT is more likely to knock off Fisher since they're playing well right now and Stevens is in a funk. 

    Official vegas line on tonight's game is Elmira +1500 to win and +17 for the spread.  Any takers?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 23, 2010, 11:52:33 AM
    Quote from: mrhoopfan on February 23, 2010, 06:17:51 AM

    As for All league predictions, Anthony Terry(RIT) should definitely be on the squad. Probably the most explosive guard in the league

    Don't know whether he's most explosive guard or not, but his name should probably be in the mix: 16.9 ppg in league play, 2.8 apg, 2.0 rpg, 1.75 spg, 49.8 FG%, 44.0 3FG% and 71.7 FT%.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 23, 2010, 11:58:15 AM
    Oh Terry's good and should be in the mix, but I would say third team.

    Bomber -love the spread tonight......... E-8 will be exciting I look for a surprise or two, just don't know what the surprise will be. Naz and Stevens are dangerous, Fischer is consistant and IC has talent........RIT hot, but have to get in ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 23, 2010, 02:04:04 PM
    I never responded about Blazek..... Look at the top teams.... Fisher, Stevens, IC.... real team concept, not just one option..... Naz has mcAdamas, BUT he makes the others good, and coaches on the court... like Greco at Stevens. Blazek is talented, don't get me wrong and would probably be a third teamer, but he doesn't make the others better..No knock, that's not his job. His job is to score, and he does.   ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 24, 2010, 09:16:46 AM
    Well the tourney is set...

    Friday
    6pm - No. 4 Stevens @ No. 1 Fisher
    8pm - No. 3 Nazareth vs. No. 2 Ithaca

    Winners play Saturday @ 5
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 24, 2010, 09:16:54 AM
    Well, no surprise. The Ducks took care of business.. Hey congrats to Stevens they did what they had to. They went 6-2 on the road, and big wins at Fisher and Naz on successive days, as well as spanking us in our house. They deserve a shot at the Championship. We came together a little late, and just missed...... no sour grapes, no what if's....  Any predictions on the Tourney..  I think it will be interesting.

    Wait 'till next year......... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 24, 2010, 10:04:48 AM
    I decided to compare the coaches preseason picks versus whoever posted regular seaon predictions on the boards (Fromafar and I).  For each place you were off for each team you got a point (which is bad).  So the winner is FROMAFAR with only 10...Second is Bomber3....last but not least the coaches... ???

    Actual
    1 - Fisher
    2 - IC
    3 - Naz
    4 - Stevens
    5 - RIT
    6 - Harwtick
    7 - Alfred
    8 - Utica
    9 - Elmira

    FROMAFAR   
    Fisher - 0
    RIT - 3
    Stevens - 1
    IC - 2
    Naz - 2
    Alfred - 1
    Hartwick - 1
    Utica - 0
    Elmira - 0
    10 total points

    Bomber3   
    Fisher   0
    Ithaca   0
    RIT   2
    Nazareth   1
    Utica    3
    Alfred   1
    Hartwick   1
    Stevens   4
    Elmira    0
    12 total points

    COACHES   
    Fisher    0
    RIT    3
    IC    1
    Naz    1
    Alfred      2
    Stevens   2
    UC   1
    Elmira   1
    Hartwick   3
    14 total points
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 24, 2010, 10:22:29 AM
    What do I know ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 24, 2010, 10:44:47 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 24, 2010, 10:22:29 AM
    What do I know ;)

    I would +k you but I don't think I have that power yet...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 24, 2010, 12:18:56 PM
    That's ok that makes up for all -k I should have gotten. I am interested to see the regional rankings..... I really think the E-8 has 4 very good teams... I won't include RIT.......... Any one could do well in NCAA.... By that I mean not one and out... Naz Stevens and IC beat up on one another, and Fischer beat them all ( except on Stevens game), but competitive games for the most part. I would love to see two get bids..... Fisher and one of the others.  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 24, 2010, 01:00:56 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 24, 2010, 10:44:47 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 24, 2010, 10:22:29 AM
    What do I know ;)

    I would +k you but I don't think I have that power yet...

    81 more posts will give you that power. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 24, 2010, 11:36:54 PM
    Final NCAA Regional Rankings have been released. St John Fisher is ranked #1 for the 4th straight week. Plattsburgh St. is the biggest mover going from 6th place into 2nd. Ithaca not ranked in the last poll moves into 4th place. Stevens is the big loser as they drop out of the rankings. Medaille goes from 2nd to 5th.

    East Region    In-Region Record    Overall Record
    1.    St. John Fisher    20-4    21-4
    2.    Plattsburgh State    17-6    18-7
    3.    Oneonta State    19-5    20-5
    4.    Ithaca    15-6    18-7
    5.    Medaille    20-4    21-4
    6.    New York University    15-8    16-8
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 25, 2010, 09:09:35 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 24, 2010, 11:36:54 PM
    Final NCAA Regional Rankings have been released. St John Fisher is ranked #1 for the 4th straight week. Plattsburgh St. is the biggest mover going from 6th place into 2nd. Ithaca not ranked in the last poll moves into 4th place. Stevens is the big loser as they drop out of the rankings. Medaille goes from 2nd to 5th.

    East Region    In-Region Record    Overall Record
    1.    St. John Fisher    20-4    21-4
    2.    Plattsburgh State    17-6    18-7
    3.    Oneonta State    19-5    20-5
    4.    Ithaca    15-6    18-7
    5.    Medaille    20-4    21-4
    6.    New York University    15-8    16-8


    Wow did not expect to see Ithaca that high.  Hypothetically speaking....say Fisher wins the E8, Plattsburgh wins the SUNYAC, Oneonta loses early in the SUNYAC tourney, and IC beats Naz and loses close to Fisher -- Fisher + Plattsburgh are the AQ but does Ithaca get an at-large bid? They would be 16-7 in region with 3 losses coming to Fisher and would be the hypothetical top seeded team in the region that didn't earn an AQ.  I know it would be an outside shot but I think its a possibility if there aren't alot of upsets of top seeds in the conference tournaments...

    Or am I off the reservation?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 25, 2010, 09:51:23 AM
    I have a question, RIT NAZ STEVENS and IC..... Let's fo a minute assume form holds and Fisher wins the e-8........ I agree with Bomber, IC should be considered for at large bid...IF FORM HOLDS IN OTHER CONFERENCE PLAYOFFS> BUT lets answer a few other questions. Will Stevens Naz RIT and IC (if they don't get an at- large) get ECAC bids?  Do they all qualify.......I know there is some rule about playing games in December during break ( tournaments etc.) a little fuzzy on that. If so where would Stevens go? They have played in Mid Atlantic area the last two years....... Does RIT qualify or are they done? Just curious.......

    What is the deal on the Tourney, is weather going to play a part? Will it go off on time... be delayed.... I have a few friends up their, say it's not good.

    Bomber got your question, will respond....... ;)

           
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 25, 2010, 04:35:11 PM
    Conference honors are in and McAdam is POY..what a surprise. Rossi as ROY and Kornaker as COY.

    First Team
    Phil Barera, Ithaca         Junior    Forward
    Mark Blazak, Hartwick          Sophomore    Guard
    Corey McAdam, Nazareth    Senior    Guard
    Matt Newman, St. John Fisher    Senior    Guard
    Anthony Terry, RIT    Junior    Guard


    Second Team    
    Jordan Gettings, St. John Fisher    Sophomore    Guard
    Brendan Harder, RIT    Sophomore    Center
    Jordan Marcus, Ithaca    Sophomore    Guard
    Simon Smith, Stevens    Sophomore    Forward
    Mike Wopperer, St. John Fisher    Senior    Center


    Honorable Mention
    Chris Cruz-Rivas, Ithaca; Mike Cutri, Stevens; Pat Goodman, Utica; George Greco, Stevens; James Patterson, Utica; Kyle Phillips, Hartwick; Sean Rossi, Ithaca


    Any surprises?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 25, 2010, 04:36:53 PM
    I would say Naz, IC, and Stevens are locks for bids if they don't win the E8 tournament. I would even say RIT is close to a lock.  Last year Hartwick won the ECAC tournament and they were 10-15....

    And it all depends on how many weeks a year you practice (if you pracitce one day in a week it counts as a whole week of practice) .  There is a cut-off and if you play more than the # of weeks allowed then you aren't allowed to play in the ECAC tournament.  Also, some schools are NCAA or bust -- Hamilton/UR/Utica when Goodemote was coach all denied bids to play for whatever reason.

    Hopefully IC won't be have to choose whether to play or not...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 25, 2010, 04:57:50 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 25, 2010, 04:35:11 PM
    Conference honors are in and McAdam is POY..what a surprise. Rossi as ROY and Kornaker as COY.

    First Team
    Phil Barera, Ithaca         Junior    Forward
    Mark Blazak, Hartwick          Sophomore    Guard
    Corey McAdam, Nazareth    Senior    Guard
    Matt Newman, St. John Fisher    Senior    Guard
    Anthony Terry, RIT    Junior    Guard


    Second Team    
    Jordan Gettings, St. John Fisher    Sophomore    Guard
    Brendan Harder, RIT    Sophomore    Center
    Jordan Marcus, Ithaca    Sophomore    Guard
    Simon Smith, Stevens    Sophomore    Forward
    Mike Wopperer, St. John Fisher    Senior    Center


    Honorable Mention
    Chris Cruz-Rivas, Ithaca; Mike Cutri, Stevens; Pat Goodman, Utica; George Greco, Stevens; James Patterson, Utica; Kyle Phillips, Hartwick; Sean Rossi, Ithaca


    Any surprises?

    I didn't realize there weren't any position restrictions (4 guards, 1 forward on first team). But that list seems pretty fair.  3 Fisher, 2 IC, 2 RIT, 1 Naz, 1 Stevens, 1 Hartwick. No one even mentioned from Elmira/Alfred, which is understandable.  Reward the teams that win. 

    Real young team - 4 sophomores, 3 juniors, 3 seniors.  The league should be very good next year in my opinion. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 25, 2010, 05:04:30 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 25, 2010, 09:09:35 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 24, 2010, 11:36:54 PM
    Final NCAA Regional Rankings have been released. St John Fisher is ranked #1 for the 4th straight week. Plattsburgh St. is the biggest mover going from 6th place into 2nd. Ithaca not ranked in the last poll moves into 4th place. Stevens is the big loser as they drop out of the rankings. Medaille goes from 2nd to 5th.

    East Region    In-Region Record    Overall Record
    1.    St. John Fisher    20-4    21-4
    2.    Plattsburgh State    17-6    18-7
    3.    Oneonta State    19-5    20-5
    4.    Ithaca    15-6    18-7
    5.    Medaille    20-4    21-4
    6.    New York University    15-8    16-8


    Wow did not expect to see Ithaca that high.  Hypothetically speaking....say Fisher wins the E8, Plattsburgh wins the SUNYAC, Oneonta loses early in the SUNYAC tourney, and IC beats Naz and loses close to Fisher -- Fisher + Plattsburgh are the AQ but does Ithaca get an at-large bid? They would be 16-7 in region with 3 losses coming to Fisher and would be the hypothetical top seeded team in the region that didn't earn an AQ.  I know it would be an outside shot but I think its a possibility if there aren't alot of upsets of top seeds in the conference tournaments...

    Or am I off the reservation?

    bomber3,

    Check out this link from Pat Coleman that was posted today on the front page and is based on the latest regional rankings. Assuming Fisher and Plattsburgh St win the automatic bids he has Oneonta St and Ithaca getting Pool C bids.

    http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2010/02/25/taking-a-whack-at-pool-c/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 25, 2010, 05:10:40 PM
    I think the best bet for a two bid year in the E8 is a Fisher loss next weekend. I just don't see it this year with Naz, Stevens, and IC picking up a few too many losses. The funny thing about the league this year, after all the crazy stuff and ups and downs, the league basically ended up as we thought it would. The issue is that the losses like IC to Utica, and some bad losses by Naz (2 losses to RIT and gets blown out by IC) and Stevens (Hartwick), would normally keep them out.

    The good news is that, in my oppinion, the E8 is easily the best conference in the Region this year. SUNYAC and LL teams being down this year, may give Ithaca, NAZ, and Stevens a chance. I would not risk losing in the first round Friday for any of these teams however.  

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 25, 2010, 06:14:18 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 25, 2010, 05:10:40 PM
    I think the best bet for a two bid year in the E8 is a Fisher loss next weekend. I just don't see it this year with Naz, Stevens, and IC picking up a few too many losses. The funny thing about the league this year, after all the crazy stuff and ups and downs, the league basically ended up as we thought it would. The issue is that the losses like IC to Utica, and some bad losses by Naz (2 losses to RIT and gets blown out by IC) and Stevens (Hartwick), would normally keep them out.

    The good news is that, in my oppinion, the E8 is easily the best conference in the Region this year. SUNYAC and LL teams being down this year, may give Ithaca, NAZ, and Stevens a chance. I would not risk losing in the first round Friday for any of these teams however.  



    I agree that the Liberty League was down this year as the usual powers in that league graduated some good players. Several teams like St Lawrence and Skidmore are young improving teams that will do well next year. I disagree that the SUNYAC was down this year. Oneonta beat Ithaca on the Bombers home court as well as 2 other lower division E8 teams. Oneonta also beat Top Ten ranked William Paterson on a neutral court 56-53.
    Cortland beat 2 lower division E8 teams and only lost to Ithaca by 1 point on Ithaca's home court. Cortland also barely lost to #2 Williams on the Eph's home court 72-68. That was a 1 point game with 17 seconds left to play. That same Williams team traveled to 8th place in the SUNYAC, New Paltz, and barely escaped with a 70-68 win when a New Paltz 3 pointer rimmed out at the buzzer. Plattsburgh St. after not playing from Dec 5th to Jan 5th traveled to D3Hoops 6th ranked Middlebury and lost to the Panthers 81-75 nearly coming back from a 17 point 2nd half deficit. The SUNYAC leaders may not have as gaudy a record as Fisher's 21-4 log, but Oneonta's 21-5 record is close behind and their win over Willie Pat is better than any win Fisher has this year. Two of Oneonta's 5 losses have been to Plattsburgh St and all 5 of their losses have come in conference play adding further credence that the SUNYAC was no walk in the park.   Fisher may very well be the best team in the region, but I think top to bottom the SUNYAC was every bit as competative as the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 25, 2010, 06:35:23 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 25, 2010, 06:14:18 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 25, 2010, 05:10:40 PM
    I think the best bet for a two bid year in the E8 is a Fisher loss next weekend. I just don't see it this year with Naz, Stevens, and IC picking up a few too many losses. The funny thing about the league this year, after all the crazy stuff and ups and downs, the league basically ended up as we thought it would. The issue is that the losses like IC to Utica, and some bad losses by Naz (2 losses to RIT and gets blown out by IC) and Stevens (Hartwick), would normally keep them out.

    The good news is that, in my oppinion, the E8 is easily the best conference in the Region this year. SUNYAC and LL teams being down this year, may give Ithaca, NAZ, and Stevens a chance. I would not risk losing in the first round Friday for any of these teams however.  



    I agree that the Liberty League was down this year as the usual powers in that league graduated some good players. Several teams like St Lawrence and Skidmore are young improving teams that will do well next year. I disagree that the SUNYAC was down this year. Oneonta beat Ithaca on the Bombers home court as well as 2 other lower division E8 teams. Oneonta also beat Top Ten ranked William Paterson on a neutral court 56-53.
    Cortland beat 2 lower division E8 teams and only lost to Ithaca by 1 point on Ithaca's home court. Cortland also barely lost to #2 Williams on the Eph's home court 72-68. That was a 1 point game with 17 seconds left to play. That same Williams team traveled to 8th place in the SUNYAC, New Paltz, and barely escaped with a 70-68 win when a New Paltz 3 pointer rimmed out at the buzzer. Plattsburgh St. after not playing from Dec 5th to Jan 5th traveled to D3Hoops 6th ranked Middlebury and lost to the Panthers 81-75 nearly coming back from a 17 point 2nd half deficit. The SUNYAC leaders may not have as gaudy a record as Fisher's 21-4 log, but Oneonta's 21-5 record is close behind and their win over Willie Pat is better than any win Fisher has this year. Two of Oneonta's 5 losses have been to Plattsburgh St and all 5 of their losses have come in conference play adding further credence that the SUNYAC was no walk in the park.   Fisher may very well be the best team in the region, but I think top to bottom the SUNYAC was every bit as competative as the E8.

    A fair point. +k.

    I still think the E8 is a stronger conference. Yes Cortland and Oneonta have had some good games, and a good season, but I think Fisher, Naz, Stevens, and IC would all be in the running for a regular season SUNYAC title.
    You can make an argument using games that go the other way as well. Elmira, a cellar dwellar in the E8 beat a middle of the pack Fredonia team. Fisher and NAZ beat Brockport, etc. After reading your post and looking at it more closely, the conferences are fairly close, and the bottom of the SUNYAC may be better than the E8.
    In the context of an at large bid to the NCAA's 2-4 in the E8 all have better records than 2-4 in the SUNYAC.

    It is an interesting debate. What is more important. The top teams in the league argument, or the top to bottom argument. Much like the annual big east vs ACC debate. Any thoughts?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 26, 2010, 07:41:28 AM
    Good morning a little slow at work.......... I may as well be in Rochester..... I looked at some stats in regard to ALL Conference players etc. No statement just some interesting numbers, NL= Not Listed in league leaders..


    Name     Team     PPG     Assist      FT%     Steals/gm     3 pt%    3pt/gm    Assist/To Ratio                 PICK

    Newman  SJF       11.1    2.5          76       1.3                43          NL           NL                                   1 st team

    Blazek     Hart       20.3   2.9          81       NL                 35           2.3         NL                                    1 st team

    Gettings   SJF        9.6     3.5         NL        NL                 NL          NL           NL                                    2 nd Team

    Greco      SIT        12.2    4.1         81        1.6               38           1.7         1.6                                   HM

    Marcus    IC          18.7    NL           78       1.2                36           2.8        NL                                      2nd Team


    Cutri       SIT          12.0   2.4          NL       1.2                48           1.7        NL                                     HM

    Rivas     RIT            13.3  NL           74        1.6               NL            1.7        NL                                    HM


    Terry     RIT            16.2   2.6         74        1.6               42           1.8        NL                                     1 st Team



    You could debate some of the picks..... I left out the BIGS  Just some facts we can chew on... ;)  Good luck to all four teams..... ;) 
               
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 26, 2010, 09:37:40 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 25, 2010, 05:04:30 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 25, 2010, 09:09:35 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 24, 2010, 11:36:54 PM
    Final NCAA Regional Rankings have been released. St John Fisher is ranked #1 for the 4th straight week. Plattsburgh St. is the biggest mover going from 6th place into 2nd. Ithaca not ranked in the last poll moves into 4th place. Stevens is the big loser as they drop out of the rankings. Medaille goes from 2nd to 5th.

    East Region    In-Region Record    Overall Record
    1.    St. John Fisher    20-4    21-4
    2.    Plattsburgh State    17-6    18-7
    3.    Oneonta State    19-5    20-5
    4.    Ithaca    15-6    18-7
    5.    Medaille    20-4    21-4
    6.    New York University    15-8    16-8


    Wow did not expect to see Ithaca that high.  Hypothetically speaking....say Fisher wins the E8, Plattsburgh wins the SUNYAC, Oneonta loses early in the SUNYAC tourney, and IC beats Naz and loses close to Fisher -- Fisher + Plattsburgh are the AQ but does Ithaca get an at-large bid? They would be 16-7 in region with 3 losses coming to Fisher and would be the hypothetical top seeded team in the region that didn't earn an AQ.  I know it would be an outside shot but I think its a possibility if there aren't alot of upsets of top seeds in the conference tournaments...

    Or am I off the reservation?

    bomber3,

    Check out this link from Pat Coleman that was posted today on the front page and is based on the latest regional rankings. Assuming Fisher and Plattsburgh St win the automatic bids he has Oneonta St and Ithaca getting Pool C bids.

    http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2010/02/25/taking-a-whack-at-pool-c/
    Thanks Magic.  By the looks of it Ithaca is 16th of 19 Pool C bids and Oneonta is 14th.  That means there needs to be only THREE (5 for Oneonta) upsets of projected tournament winners for Ithaca to be on the outside looking in.  Ithaca is in a must-win tonight if they want any chance of a pool C bid in my opinion because there will be at least three upsets in conference tournaments (out of 40 Pool A bids).  My guess is there will be about 7-10 upsets of projected Pool A winners by lower seeds.  Now pool C bubble teams need to hope the upsets come from teams ahead of them in the pool C picture (so the projected pool A winner would simply replace the team that actually won and Ithaca/Onenota don't get bumped down the list).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 26, 2010, 05:16:56 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 26, 2010, 09:37:40 AM
    Thanks Magic.  By the looks of it Ithaca is 16th of 19 Pool C bids and Oneonta is 14th.  That means there needs to be only THREE (5 for Oneonta) upsets of projected tournament winners for Ithaca to be on the outside looking in.  Ithaca is in a must-win tonight if they want any chance of a pool C bid in my opinion because there will be at least three upsets in conference tournaments (out of 40 Pool A bids).  My guess is there will be about 7-10 upsets of projected Pool A winners by lower seeds.  Now pool C bubble teams need to hope the upsets come from teams ahead of them in the pool C picture (so the projected pool A winner would simply replace the team that actually won and Ithaca/Onenota don't get bumped down the list).

    bomber3,
    I agree with that. You have to hope that any upsets are not by the 3rd seed or lower in conference tournaments. One upset that will affect the Pool C bids has already occured last night when the #3 ranked team in the country, St. Thomas lost in the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference to the 4th seeded team Carleton. Carleton wasn't even on the West Regional Ranking list and had no chance of getting a Pool C bid. The other semifinal in that conference had Augsburg the #2 seed losing to the #3 seed Gustavus Adolphus who also wasn't regionally ranked and wasn't about to dance. So now the Pool A bid is going to one of those 2 teams and St. Thomas is a lock for a Pool C that will hurt some teams on the bubble like Ithaca or the Plattsburgh/Oneonta loser.
    We have to keep our fingers crossed . The best scenario in the E8 is for Ithaca(if you're a Bomber's fan, Naz or Steven's if you're a fan of those teams) to win the Pool A and Fisher will almost certainly get a Pool C bid. The SUNYAC teams will have to sweat it out, but I think that both Oneonta and Plattsburgh have to win tonight and get to the SUNYAC finals or that open door will get slammed shut rather abruptly. I remember last year when Hamilton was projected as a Pool C bid winner and they lost to RPI in the semifinals of the Liberty League tournament and it cost them a chance to go dancing.
    Well I'm off to see the 2 semifinal games in the SUNYAC tonight. I expect both games to be tight contests with a winning margin to be 5 pts or less in each one.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: the golden flyer on February 26, 2010, 05:35:42 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 25, 2010, 04:36:53 PM
    I would say Naz, IC, and Stevens are locks for bids if they don't win the E8 tournament. I would even say RIT is close to a lock.  Last year Hartwick won the ECAC tournament and they were 10-15....

    And it all depends on how many weeks a year you practice (if you pracitce one day in a week it counts as a whole week of practice) .  There is a cut-off and if you play more than the # of weeks allowed then you aren't allowed to play in the ECAC tournament.  Also, some schools are NCAA or bust -- Hamilton/UR/Utica when Goodemote was coach all denied bids to play for whatever reason.

    Hopefully IC won't be have to choose whether to play or not...

    Hartwick was actually 15-12 last year after winning the ECACs (13-12 after the regular season). In order to qualify for the ECACs you must have a winning record. I am not sure on the exact # of weeks of practice you can have to qualify for the ECACs but there definitely is a limit. Does anyone know if they are having the ECAC tourney this year? I have heard that they might not be due to financial constrictions...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 26, 2010, 08:05:22 PM
    Fisher had enough in the tank to maintain a double digit lead, and win tonight. can't stick around for the second game tonight, but I think it will be a real good one. At this point I am pulling for 9 overtimes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 26, 2010, 09:36:17 PM
    going down to the wire -- IC up 2 with under 4 to play...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 26, 2010, 09:56:17 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 26, 2010, 08:05:22 PM
    Fisher had enough in the tank to maintain a double digit lead, and win tonight. can't stick around for the second game tonight, but I think it will be a real good one. At this point I am pulling for 9 overtimes.
    You're getting at least one..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 26, 2010, 10:08:21 PM
    And another win over Ithaca in the e-8 tourney for Nazareth...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 26, 2010, 10:09:28 PM
    Ahh damn...

    75-72 naz in ot -- Mcadam hits 2 FTs with 11 to go and IC misses a three to tie it up.  Play of the game was with 25 seconds in OT Cruz-Rivas is called for a questionable offensive foul.  Ref should not have blown the whistle in that situation -- let the players decide the game.  Naz gets the ball and hits their free throws and the game is over.  Naz won the game but that call probably shouldn't have been called in the middle of the game nevermind with 25 seconds to go in overtime.  

    Tom Brown played a hell of a game -- he kept them in the game when it looked like Naz was going to pull away.  Four separate times in the last 3 minutes of regulation and overtime he hit a big shot to turn the momentum.  IC is really sweating the bubble now -- most likely on the outside looking in...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 26, 2010, 10:17:14 PM
    What's up with the assistant coach running the IC huddle? Anyone else notice that during the game? He was the one talking up the players and drawing up out of bounds plays 65% of the time.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 26, 2010, 10:20:08 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 26, 2010, 10:08:21 PM
    And another win over Ithaca in the e-8 tourney for Nazareth...

    Ugh...another year, another one and done for the Bombers in the E8 tournament. The more things change, the more they stay the same
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 26, 2010, 10:20:11 PM
    Too bad for IC. Never want to see refs decide a big game. Naz Fisher 3 tomorrow for all the marbles.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mrhoopfan on February 26, 2010, 10:45:13 PM

    Refs didn't decide ithaca game. 2 things:

    1. Naz got timely offensive boards throughout the game
    2. The Ithaca coach went away from the box in one/ zone. Mcadam had 6 points n first half and Naz was out of sync against the Ithaca defense. Second half, Ithaca plays primarily man and Mcadam goes off, ending up with 27. They should've made the role players beat them Scaffidi and Stephens a combined 8-28.

    On another note, Naz' freshman Waldbillig played HUGE.....good for him as his minutes have been spotty this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 27, 2010, 12:09:36 AM
    Quote from: mrhoopfan on February 26, 2010, 10:45:13 PM

    Refs didn't decide ithaca game. 2 things:

    1. Naz got timely offensive boards throughout the game

    2. The Ithaca coach went away from the box in one/ zone. Mcadam had 6 points n first half and Naz was out of sync against the Ithaca defense. Second half, Ithaca plays primarily man and Mcadam goes off, ending up with 27. They should've made the role players beat them Scaffidi and Stephens a combined 8-28.

    On another note, Naz' freshman Waldbillig played HUGE.....good for him as his minutes have been spotty this year.

    It was a play that shouldn't have been called -- did it decide the game, ehh probably not but it definitely was a huge momentum changer.  There was minimal contact and I'm just saying they shouldn't have made the call.  Nothing worse than a ref that loves the spotlight.

    Naz got 14 offensive boards to IC's 20. Naz won the game in my opinion because they got a couple timely stops and hit their free throws. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 27, 2010, 02:06:43 AM
    Ithaca's chances for a Pool C bid may have just taken a big hit with the loss to Nazareth Friday night. Bomber fans need to hope that not too many Conference #1 seeds get upset on Saturday and Sunday and if they do it had better be by a team that was already considered a Pool C lock.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on February 27, 2010, 02:07:04 AM
    Just to be a contrarian (and provide some more fodder) - are you guys all so sure that the LL is not in the same league as the e-8 or the SUNYAC?  Hobart beat SJF @ Fisher.  Clarkson a non-playoff team which had horrible losses (see Elmira) as I think they were perhaps looking ahead to their match up with d1 Cornell - beat U of R and Cortland while losing to Oswego who had the benefit of having a little "insider" knowledge as Stockwell (Oswego Coach came from Clarkson and had coached every single player that played in that game). RPI and Skidmore had some barnburning losses to Middlebury & MIT ranked 6 & 13 respectively and Skidmore beat NYU @ NYU. Top to bottom in many respects the LL may have been more competitive than either league.  7 of the 8 teams had playoff hopes on the last weekend of the season - things were not decided so early like they were in the e-8. And in the SUNYAC only 2 teams get eliminated so there is not the kind of pressure that you have where only 4 teams get in such as the e-8 or LL. RPI & Clarkson did not make their playoffs and both had quality wins. SLU was young team that needed to mature (they lost 8 of first 12 but are 15-11 now) and now could be a force if they get by Hobart @ home tomorrow.  All I am saying is that other than Vassar every LL team spent time beating up on each other.  There was nobody running for the bus early (except Vassar). Just don't see the choice to be so clear but to coin fromafar's phrase "what do I know?" ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on February 27, 2010, 02:09:52 AM
    Naz vs. Fisher...I love it. I've said it before, and as much as it hurts, McAdam is a great player. However, I have nothing but total confidence that the wildly underrated Will Cornett is going to his thing and contain him.

    Message to the E8 tournament refs from all basketball fans..........keep your whistles out of your ****ing mouth and let the great talent in this league decide the games please.

    I'm not saying the best two teams aren't in the finals but I'm just infuriated with the refereeing so far. Nobody came to watch you guys.

    VIVA LA CARDS!!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on February 27, 2010, 02:14:30 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 27, 2010, 12:09:36 AM
    Quote from: mrhoopfan on February 26, 2010, 10:45:13 PM

      Nothing worse than a ref that loves the spotlight.


    Bomber3 - I totally agree.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on February 27, 2010, 02:16:17 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 27, 2010, 02:07:04 AM
    Just to be a contrarian (and provide some more fodder) - are you guys all so sure that the LL is not in the same league as the e-8 or the SUNYAC?  



    Yes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 27, 2010, 02:25:51 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 27, 2010, 12:09:36 AM
    Quote from: mrhoopfan on February 26, 2010, 10:45:13 PM

    Refs didn't decide ithaca game. 2 things:

    1. Naz got timely offensive boards throughout the game

    2. The Ithaca coach went away from the box in one/ zone. Mcadam had 6 points n first half and Naz was out of sync against the Ithaca defense. Second half, Ithaca plays primarily man and Mcadam goes off, ending up with 27. They should've made the role players beat them Scaffidi and Stephens a combined 8-28.

    On another note, Naz' freshman Waldbillig played HUGE.....good for him as his minutes have been spotty this year.

    It was a play that shouldn't have been called -- did it decide the game, ehh probably not but it definitely was a huge momentum changer.  There was minimal contact and I'm just saying they shouldn't have made the call.  Nothing worse than a ref that loves the spotlight.

    Naz got 14 offensive boards to IC's 20. Naz won the game in my opinion because they got a couple timely stops and hit their free throws. 

    Here's my question: How does Cruz pick up 4 fouls in three minutes? The guy has no fouls with 5:00 to go in the second half and winds up fouling out? Even if the last one was dodgy, that's sort of astounding.

    Here's the thing about refs deciding games with foul calls. It works both ways. Refs can decide games by NOT blowing the whistle too. If you let a player get away with something they shouldn't, aren't you still affecting the outcome of a game? If  refs say to themselves "I'm not calling something late in the game" then they're affecting the game just as much because defenses (usually the benefactors with no call situations) can get away with more.

    Overall, it just feels like another disappointing season. As a program, IC needs to show they can win the big games. As great as this team has been over the past three years (59-16 in the regular season) and as exciting they've been to watch, they simply haven't delivered when the spotlight is brightest.

    It's too bad. Men's basketball has never really been a big sport at IC, and these teams have really had an opportunity to make a name for themselves They still have that chance obviously, but this is the third straight year where--it appears anyway--that we'll wonder, what if

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on February 27, 2010, 02:37:47 AM
    Hey Fish- Like your well thought out and nicely worded comment but your facts a a little thin.... ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 27, 2010, 02:46:48 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 27, 2010, 02:07:04 AM
    Just to be a contrarian (and provide some more fodder) - are you guys all so sure that the LL is not in the same league as the e-8 or the SUNYAC?  Hobart beat SJF @ Fisher.  Clarkson a non-playoff team which had horrible losses (see Elmira) as I think they were perhaps looking ahead to their match up with d1 Cornell - beat U of R and Cortland while losing to Oswego who had the benefit of having a little "insider" knowledge as Stockwell (Oswego Coach came from Clarkson and had coached every single player that played in that game). RPI and Skidmore had some barnburning losses to Middlebury & MIT ranked 6 & 13 respectively and Skidmore beat NYU @ NYU. Top to bottom in many respects the LL may have been more competitive than either league.  7 of the 8 teams had playoff hopes on the last weekend of the season - things were not decided so early like they were in the e-8. And in the SUNYAC only 2 teams get eliminated so there is not the kind of pressure that you have where only 4 teams get in such as the e-8 or LL. RPI & Clarkson did not make their playoffs and both had quality wins. SLU was young team that needed to mature (they lost 8 of first 12 but are 15-11 now) and now could be a force if they get by Hobart @ home tomorrow.  All I am saying is that other than Vassar every LL team spent time beating up on each other.  There was nobody running for the bus early (except Vassar). Just don't see the choice to be so clear but to coin fromafar's phrase "what do I know?" ;D

    with age,
    I can't disagree with anything you said. I think the only reason the Liberty league is considered a little down this year (at least as far as I'm concerned) is the lack of any team getting a regional ranking at any point during the season. As I mentioned a while ago on the Liberty League board the LL is a 1 bid league this year and more often than not there is usually 2 teams dancing from that conference. I think next year will be a different story though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 27, 2010, 02:53:52 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 27, 2010, 02:37:47 AM
    Hey Fish- Like your well thought out and nicely worded comment but your facts a a little thin.... ;D

    You gotta forgive him, he still hasn't learned how to use the quote feature yet. ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on February 27, 2010, 02:55:04 AM
    We have agreement - down at the top but up from 2-7 (again in my opinion).  And I think the regional rankings are affected by the tremendous balance of the league.  I have not done the research but I seriously doubt (in fact I would not bet my kids but I would bet my wife- hehe) that a non-playoff team did not sweep Plattsburg or SJF like RPI did with SLU.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 27, 2010, 03:13:42 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 27, 2010, 02:55:04 AM
    We have agreement - down at the top but up from 2-7 (again in my opinion).  And I think the regional rankings are affected by the tremendous balance of the league.  I have not done the research but I seriously doubt (in fact I would not bet my kids but I would bet my wife- hehe) that a non-playoff team did not sweep Plattsburg or SJF like RPI did with SLU.

    Well it doesn't take much research to know that a non-playoff team didn't sweep St John Fisher with their 15-1 conference record. ;D :D ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 27, 2010, 07:26:48 AM
    Pretty sure I can speak for all the fans of the Plattsburgh St. Cardinals that we'll be rooting for the St John Fisher Cardinals this evening when they take on Nazareth. Should Fisher win their championship and Plattsburgh lose to Oneonta St in their championship game, then Plattsburgh would be the 1st team in the East Region to be up for consideration for a Pool C bid. Oneonta fans will be rooting for Fisher for those very same reasons as they will be 1st up if they lose to Plattsburgh.  GO Cards!!!  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 27, 2010, 09:15:24 AM
    I agree with with Fisherman, the reffing in this tourney was horrible. The fact that Fisher and Naz are the two teams in should surprise no one....Games played at Fisher are historically slanted..Hey I have no ax, so I a speaking as a neutral observer,,,
    This is not to say Naz and Fisher would not hav won on  aneutral court, but at least the doubt would be gone. Good teams don't let the ref's decide their fate, we all know that BUT key calls here and there can make it tough.....

    In Naz game.. the Cruz call should have been a no call, and I say would have been, at another venue.
    In the Fisher game the whole game was turned around in the first 4 minutes with some phantom calls on Stevens. Changed the flow and ability to defend.......

    That being said, it's all part of the game, it's been that way forever, so you can't fight it...... IF the ref's don't give Fisher their usual coddling today, Naz can win this thing...... I look for those other guys to come up big... Stevens, Corletta and Scaffidi, as well as Lothridge........ Hey I have to put my two cents in, I still want to know if RIT is playing again... ECAC?  ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 27, 2010, 02:49:59 PM
    I just received word from Plattsburgh St. that the SUNYAC Championship game between Oneonta St and Plattsburgh St will be a live webcast by PSTV this afternoon at 4:00 PM. Here's the link:

    http://primelink1.net/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 27, 2010, 03:35:36 PM
    As a fisher fan I saw some bad callss botj ways yesterday, but even I thought Stevens got the worse of it. Fisher was the better team, but a few key calls would have mde this interesting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on February 27, 2010, 06:41:34 PM
    I know I am going to get killed for this and accused of making excuses but the refs completely blew that game. The call that handed the game to Naz was a joke. If anything it was a moving pick. Then the no call on Fisher's last ditch attempt was shameful.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: mrhoopfan on February 27, 2010, 06:42:42 PM


    Naz by one to win conference tourney........wow!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 27, 2010, 06:45:57 PM
    Let's not forget the 2 point gift that Naz got from the refs in the first half. a shot hits the middle of the shot clock and goes in and not one ref sees it? Fisher should have put the game away, but those two point sure were big.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 27, 2010, 06:49:58 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on February 27, 2010, 06:41:34 PM
    I know I am going to get killed for this and accused of making excuses but the refs completely blew that game. The call that handed the game to Naz was a joke. If anything it was a moving pick. Then the no call on Fisher's last ditch attempt was shameful.

    Yeah you blow a 12 pt lead at home with 9 minutes to go. Blame the refs. Totally their fault, Ugh, it was bad enough with IC fans last night. Why can't teams ever lose without blaming the refs?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 27, 2010, 06:51:38 PM
    Maybe next time you don't go 9-17 from the free throw line instead
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 27, 2010, 07:09:12 PM
    Your right bombers. fisher had total control and let Naz have take it back. but a couple calls by the refs probably decided the game. Just like the calls last night that got naz into tonights game. It is tough to swallow if your on the short end.      On the shot clock/backboard call only three people in the building missed it. That is tough to live with. A team works all year to win the conference, and a blown call decides it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 27, 2010, 07:17:14 PM
    I don't think it's a matter of blaming the ref's, as much as it is a matter of disappointment 3 guys sometimes don't see the obvious, or miss the obvious, or call something that never happened. Agreed it's part of the game and every team gets those advantages at one time or another. In addition if a player can have a bad game, then I guess a ref can too..........BUT when the game is on the line and every call counts, you can't help pointing out the mistake, especially the obvious ones. I give SJFCARDS a lot of credit..he tells it like it is... Nice job +K........

    Congrats to NAZ, I had a feeling after seeing Fisher last night, they were ripe to be knocked off by Stevens, but those early phnatom calls cost Stevens...........Well the e-8 will definitely get two in.......... that's the good news..... ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 27, 2010, 07:44:44 PM
    Any chance Fisher does not get in come selection time?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: blossom930 on February 27, 2010, 09:43:06 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 27, 2010, 07:09:12 PM
    Your right bombers. fisher had total control and let Naz have take it back. but a couple calls by the refs probably decided the game. Just like the calls last night that got naz into tonights game. It is tough to swallow if your on the short end.      On the shot clock/backboard call only three people in the building missed it. That is tough to live with. A team works all year to win the conference, and a blown call decides it.


    not only did the refs not see it, but did not hear it?  come on.  If you were sitting in Naz'z gym you probably heard the shot clock cage rattle when the basketball hit it.  It was that bad.  In other words, you did not have to see it.

    I can handle bad calls most of the time, partly because they go both ways, and mostly because at least the other team has to make a free throw. 

    But to be awarded 2 points?   

    Tough way to lose no matter which team it was...  Sucks to win that way too.  If I was a Naz player, I sure would have rather won by 3 pts... 



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 27, 2010, 09:44:38 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 27, 2010, 07:44:44 PM
    Any chance Fisher does not get in come selection time?

    sjfcards,
    Fisher is a lock for a Pool C bid as they will still be the 1st team in the East Region to come up for consideration by the NCAA selection committee. Oneonta St who lost to Plattsburgh St this afternoon in the battle for the SUNYAC bid will also have a good chance to get an at large if there isn't too many upsets among the ranked teams from other regions. The Red Dragons should be the 2nd team from the East under consideration.

    Update:
    Since I first posted this more conference tournaments have ended and more projections have been done that put forth the probable Pool C bid winners. It now looks like Fisher AND Oneonta are locks to go Dancing. Looks like the East Region will have the following teams this year.

    Plattsburgh State---SUNYAC  Automatic Bid
    Nazareth---Empire 8  Automatic Bid
    St. Lawrence---Liberty League  Automatic Bid
    Medaille--- Alleghany Mountain Collegiate Conference  Automatic Bid
    SUNYIT/Wells winner--- North Eastern Athletic Conference  Automatic Bid
    St John Fisher---Pool C At Large Bid
    Oneonta State---Pool C At Largr Bid

    Ithaca will come up just short of getting a bid as they would be the next East Region team on the table for consideration.

    Last year we had 6 teams make the tournament. This year we will have 7 teams get in. The difference is the SUNYAC only got 1 bid last year while this year they get 2.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: e8bballfan on February 28, 2010, 11:32:41 AM
    Fisher fans are funny complaining about the officials when there were more fouls called on Naz (16) than Fisher (12) and both teams shot 17 FT's. Maybe you should complain about how Fisher went 9-17 from the FT line or how Newman and Gettings played horribly (combined 4-18 from field, 0-4 from 3, 13 pts, 11rbs, 7 assists, 6 of those being from Gettings).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on February 28, 2010, 12:22:44 PM
    It's always difficult to comment on refs without getting the predictable "you're blaming it on the refs, your team could have just played better blah blah blah". Fisher played awful last night in many ways. No doubt about it. However, the result of the game was changed due to the refs incompetence. Of course the refs always effect the end result of the game. But last night they made some egregious errors. Anybody who saw the game knows this. But its done with, time to move on.

    VIVA LA CARDS!!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 28, 2010, 12:37:16 PM
    Quote from: e8bballfan on February 28, 2010, 11:32:41 AM
    Fisher fans are funny complaining about the officials when there were more fouls called on Naz (16) than Fisher (12) and both teams shot 17 FT's. Maybe you should complain about how Fisher went 9-17 from the FT line or how Newman and Gettings played horribly (combined 4-18 from field, 0-4 from 3, 13 pts, 11rbs, 7 assists, 6 of those being from Gettings).

    I wonder why it is just Fisher fans that are funny, when less than 24 hours earlier Ithaca fans were on here upset about the officiating, and before then other fans have come on and argued about officiating. All fans complain, especially when they got jobbed by officials.

    I think all Fisher posters have stated that Fisher should have played better, and/or, should have shut it down when they were up by double digits. But come on, when the Refs give a team 2 points on a shot that CLEARLY hit the shot clock (NO ONE who was at the game would argue that it did not. Except maybe the ref that was obvioulsy not watching the game), and that team wins by 1 point, it is tough not to comment on it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Go Naz on February 28, 2010, 01:29:44 PM
    Congrats to Naz! Say whatever you want, they pulled themselves out of a double digit hole in the second half on their opponents floor, a very tough thing to do.  Fisher had an opportunity to step on their throats and they didnt.  There are bad calls in every game, it is just the nature of the beast.  I wish both Naz and Fisher luck in the NCAA's.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: the golden flyer on February 28, 2010, 02:19:16 PM
    I am still in shock from the end result last night. There is no doubt that the ref blew that call but like it was mentioned before, it is the nature of the beast. You have to keep in mind that we are not dealing with division 1 officials and that there will be calls like this. With that being said, I would be upset if I were on the other side of the coin being a Fisher fan. However, to blame the outcome of the game solely on that call I certainly can not agree with. If Fisher knocks down their free throws, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Congrats to Naz and it would be fun to see these two teams matchup again in the NCAA tourney and hope they represent the E8 well!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 28, 2010, 02:37:16 PM
    Quote from: the golden flyer on February 28, 2010, 02:19:16 PM
    I am still in shock from the end result last night. There is no doubt that the ref blew that call but like it was mentioned before, it is the nature of the beast. You have to keep in mind that we are not dealing with division 1 officials and that there will be calls like this. With that being said, I would be upset if I were on the other side of the coin being a Fisher fan. However, to blame the outcome of the game solely on that call I certainly can not agree with. If Fisher knocks down their free throws, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Congrats to Naz and it would be fun to see these two teams matchup again in the NCAA tourney and hope they represent the E8 well!

    What are the rules on reviewable plays? I know they took a look at the video at the Ithaca-Utica women's game last night, but maybe they only can look at buzzer-beaters?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 28, 2010, 03:04:17 PM
    Quote from: the golden flyer on February 28, 2010, 02:19:16 PM
    I am still in shock from the end result last night. There is no doubt that the ref blew that call but like it was mentioned before, it is the nature of the beast. You have to keep in mind that we are not dealing with division 1 officials and that there will be calls like this. With that being said, I would be upset if I were on the other side of the coin being a Fisher fan. However, to blame the outcome of the game solely on that call I certainly can not agree with. If Fisher knocks down their free throws, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Congrats to Naz and it would be fun to see these two teams matchup again in the NCAA tourney and hope they represent the E8 well!

    I 100% agree with you Flyer. Fisher let that game slip away in the last 10 minutes. Bad calls are part of the game, and 50/50 calls I try not to complain about. The foul call that put Naz on the line to win is one of those calls that is called half the time, and is a no call the other half. But that happens and the ref makes his best judgement in a split second. However, an easy call like that one? The ref should give his money back.

    The projections on this site have a possible Naz Fisher rematch in the second round. How much fun would that be? Hopefully they play in Rochester so a lot of people can go and see it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 28, 2010, 06:45:57 PM
    D3Hoops has come up with a projected bracket for the NCAA Tournament. These are only projections and probably will differ from the actual NCAA committee's bracket but I sure hope that the pod Pat Coleman has for Plattsburgh St. happens. Pat has Plattsburgh hosting 1st and 2nd round games with the Cardinals taking on Nazareth and those other Cardinals, St John Fisher taking on Colby. Nothing could be finer!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 01, 2010, 08:02:04 AM
    Part of me wants a Naz Fisher rematch, but the other part would like to see the two split up. It could be a shot in the arm for the conference and region if both could have some success, rather than knocking each other out early.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 01, 2010, 09:04:34 AM
    I actually think the loss may help fisher in the tourny. It obviously won't help with getting a good see but I don't think the Fisher team has the poise and heart to continue with its win streak much longer.  Now that they got the loss out of the way maybe it will knock them back down to reality and they can regroup before the tourny.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 01, 2010, 10:24:37 AM
    Let's hope.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 01, 2010, 10:26:07 AM
    Looks like Naz got the right calls down the stretch and made the plays they needed to win both games.  I don't think its fair to say Naz won because of the error on the two point call back in the first half.  Strategy would have changed, plays would have been run different, etc. So you can't simply say Naz won by one and were given two points in the first half so Fisher would have won by one. There was ample time to recover from the blown call.

    After speaking with a highly regarded member of the Ithaca athletic department :o -- they were more upset about a play with about a minute and a half to go where Rossi was stripped of the ball.  It was directly in front of the IC bench and he apparently was hacked right on the arm and the ref didn't call it.  Naz got possession of the ball and hit a three to go up by one. It was tough to see on the video but IC's bench got a clear view of the play. So there were two questionable calls that went against their favor.  Its one thing getting a bad call in the first half but it makes it tough when two calls in the last two minutes of OT go against you...

    Joe Lunardi was on ESPN this morning and said IC was one of the last four left out...

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 01, 2010, 10:30:05 AM
    SUNYIT @ Plattsburgh
    Naz vs Medaille @ Plattsburgh

    Brooklyn @ St John Fisher
    Brandeis vs St. Lawrence @ St John Fisher

    Oneonta @ Franklin and Marshall
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 01, 2010, 10:30:57 AM
    When will the brackets be final?  Also when will the ECAC be announced.. I assume shortly afterwards?   oops looks like they are out.. as I post.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2010, 10:33:33 AM
    Bracket: http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/mbb-bracket2010.pdf

    Been on the front page of D3hoops.com for 15 minutes, AFAR.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 01, 2010, 10:53:25 AM
    Your right Pat, sorry.........
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 01, 2010, 10:57:06 AM
    Quick reaction to the bracket is that Naz got a pretty favorable draw.  Medaille is solid but is 3-3 their last 6 games after starting 20-1. Plattsburgh and SUNYIT are also solid but beatable.  Wouldn't be surprised if any of the four won the bracket.

    Fisher got a home bid but is stuck with Brandeis in their bracket.  Brandeis beat UR twice and Wash U.  Brooklyn has no comparable opponents but were 22-6.  

    Oneonta gets Franklin and Marshall - 23-4 overall with no comparable opponents.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: D.B. Cooper on March 01, 2010, 11:14:17 AM
    Muhlenberg is a common opponent between Oneonta State and F&M. Dragons won only meeting in Allentown, Dips swept all 3 games home & away. I doubt much can be drawn from this though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 01, 2010, 08:10:58 PM
    Quote from: D.B. Cooper on March 01, 2010, 11:14:17 AM
    Muhlenberg is a common opponent between Oneonta State and F&M. Dragons won only meeting in Allentown, Dips swept all 3 games home & away. I doubt much can be drawn from this though.

    Does anyone have a report on Brooklyn? I don't know anything about the CUNY, and was wondering what Fisher was looking at. Looks like Fisher has a bit of a tough draw, even with playing at home. Brandeis and Brooklyn both look solid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on March 02, 2010, 12:02:43 AM
    Think I would project a Plattsburg vs Naz 2nd round game with the edge going to Plattsburgh with the home court advantage.  Also going out on a limb - I think the ECAC winner will come out of the liberty league.  My bet is on Hobart.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 02, 2010, 06:58:59 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on March 01, 2010, 08:10:58 PM
    Quote from: D.B. Cooper on March 01, 2010, 11:14:17 AM
    Muhlenberg is a common opponent between Oneonta State and F&M. Dragons won only meeting in Allentown, Dips swept all 3 games home & away. I doubt much can be drawn from this though.

    Does anyone have a report on Brooklyn? I don't know anything about the CUNY, and was wondering what Fisher was looking at. Looks like Fisher has a bit of a tough draw, even with playing at home. Brandeis and Brooklyn both look solid.

    sjfcards,
    The CUNYAC conference is one of the weaker ones in Division 3. Last year Brooklyn also won their automatic bid and played St. Lawrence in a first round game on the Saints home court. They got beat 81-69 in a game that was closer than the final score would indicate as Brooklyn was within 4 points at 66-62 with 5 minutes left to play. An SLU 12-4 run over the next 3 min. boosted the lead to 12 and the Saints closed them out at the line. Of the ten teams in the conference this year only 3 of them had winning records, Brooklyn, Baruch, and York. Baruch lost to Brooklyn both times they played with the last time being the finals of the conference tournament. Brooklyn claimed the automatic bid and Baruch with a 20-7 record is not in the NCAA's but will play Stevens in the metro ECAC's. Baruch opened the season with a 68-67 win at a pre-season #5 Ranked Richard Stockton's home court and also beat NCAA tournament team Rutgers-Newark. They lost to current #7 William Paterson 87-81 in double overtime and also played Stevens tough losing an 86-83 decision in OT. Obivously if Brooklyn beat Baruch twice they are a little better team. Both Brooklyn wins were by 5 points and 1 was in OT. York was the other decent team in the league and actually beat Brooklyn twice in the regular season but lost to them in the semifinals of the tournament and they are in the downstate ECAC's as well. Brooklyn's main man is Richard Jean-Baptiste, a 6'4" athletic forward who is avering 20 ppg and 7 rpg. They also have two small (5'10") guards who average in double figures. They return their top 7 players from last year, so they won't be chopped liver. Fisher should win this game but if they take them lightly because of their conference's weak reputation they could get surprised. These guys won't quit.                       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 02, 2010, 07:11:13 AM
    new top 25 poll is out:      http://d3hoops.com/top25/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2010, 07:51:00 AM
    Quote from: magicman on March 02, 2010, 07:11:13 AM
    new top 25 poll is out   http://d3hoops.com/top25/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 02, 2010, 09:41:05 AM
    No RIT in the ECACs this year.  Not sure if they declined a bid or weren't invited but there are only four teams in the Upstate tournament.  Not sure why but the tournament has fallen off somewhat over the past 2-3 years.  Several years ago there were always 8 teams in the tournament -- making it a pretty compelling battle for bragging rights over the other NY conferences.  Now with just four teams participating the past few years -- it seems to have fallen off a little bit.  Not sure if it is financial reasons or just lack of interest from teams.

    But anyways-- IC is the 1 seed and because the women host Desales, are forced to play on the road against RPI.  Host two seed Brockport will take on Hobart in the other matchup.  This should be good experience for the Bombers and give them some playoff exposure.  With only two seniors on the team (Tom Brown and Will Gaskins) it is more about next season, which will have high expectations for the team...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 02, 2010, 09:57:50 AM
    I was hoping RIT would play one or two more games, to see if they are truly getting better, and some experience going into next year. I believe Rit and IC may be the teams to beat next year..........BUT ;)........
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 02, 2010, 10:38:55 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on March 02, 2010, 09:57:50 AM
    I was hoping RIT would play one or two more games, to see if they are truly getting better, and some experience going into next year. I believe Rit and IC may be the teams to beat next year..........BUT ;)........
    I don't think you can discount Fisher -- they're only losing two players.  But that is a long ways away and this season hasn't ended yet (well for some of us -- even if it is ECACs  ;D).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 02, 2010, 10:48:33 AM
    Congratulations to Mcadam from Naz. Announced as a fimalist for the jostens award. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 02, 2010, 02:03:37 PM
    Bomber no one is being discounted at this time.....especially Fisher, but looks like IC and RIT return all the important pieces. Naz loses everything with McAdams leaving, Stevens losing Greco could cause huge problems... stability and someone to get the ball to Smith... Hartwick might step up a bit, if Blazak truly is an All Conference player. The final 4 could very well be RIT, IC, Fisher, and Hartwick........ Could be a battle for that 4 spot.... Way too early for this and of course the recruiting is very important. What ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 02, 2010, 02:37:40 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on March 02, 2010, 10:48:33 AM
    Congratulations to Mcadam from Naz. Announced as a fimalist for the jostens award. 
    Congrats -- top ten in the country is impressive.  And long long long ways away FROMAFAR...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 02, 2010, 02:41:08 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 02, 2010, 06:58:59 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on March 01, 2010, 08:10:58 PM
    Quote from: D.B. Cooper on March 01, 2010, 11:14:17 AM
    Muhlenberg is a common opponent between Oneonta State and F&M. Dragons won only meeting in Allentown, Dips swept all 3 games home & away. I doubt much can be drawn from this though.

    Does anyone have a report on Brooklyn? I don't know anything about the CUNY, and was wondering what Fisher was looking at. Looks like Fisher has a bit of a tough draw, even with playing at home. Brandeis and Brooklyn both look solid.

    sjfcards,
    The CUNYAC conference is one of the weaker ones in Division 3. Last year Brooklyn also won their automatic bid and played St. Lawrence in a first round game on the Saints home court. They got beat 81-69 in a game that was closer than the final score would indicate as Brooklyn was within 4 points at 66-62 with 5 minutes left to play. An SLU 12-4 run over the next 3 min. boosted the lead to 12 and the Saints closed them out at the line. Of the ten teams in the conference this year only 3 of them had winning records, Brooklyn, Baruch, and York. Baruch lost to Brooklyn both times they played with the last time being the finals of the conference tournament. Brooklyn claimed the automatic bid and Baruch with a 20-7 record is not in the NCAA's but will play Stevens in the metro ECAC's. Baruch opened the season with a 68-67 win at a pre-season #5 Ranked Richard Stockton's home court and also beat NCAA tournament team Rutgers-Newark. They lost to current #7 William Paterson 87-81 in double overtime and also played Stevens tough losing an 86-83 decision in OT. Obivously if Brooklyn beat Baruch twice they are a little better team. Both Brooklyn wins were by 5 points and 1 was in OT. York was the other decent team in the league and actually beat Brooklyn twice in the regular season but lost to them in the semifinals of the tournament and they are in the downstate ECAC's as well. Brooklyn's main man is Richard Jean-Baptiste, a 6'4" athletic forward who is avering 20 ppg and 7 rpg. They also have two small (5'10") guards who average in double figures. They return their top 7 players from last year, so they won't be chopped liver. Fisher should win this game but if they take them lightly because of their conference's weak reputation they could get surprised. These guys won't quit.                       

    Thanks for the report MagicMan. I appreciate it. I am hopeful that Fisher can get through this weekend being at home, but it looks like htey have two tough games to get past. If Fisher plays well, I think they have enough to get to the sweet 16. They are going to need to hit some shots I am sure.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 02, 2010, 05:55:15 PM
    Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2010, 07:51:00 AM
    Quote from: magicman on March 02, 2010, 07:11:13 AM
    new top 25 poll is out   http://d3hoops.com/top25/

    Thanks Ralph, I posted and ran and just now discovered it. It's been corrected. Plus K.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 02, 2010, 06:52:29 PM
    sjfcards,
    Fisher has a chance to get to the sweet 16. Brandeis is going to be tough though. They return 4 players from a team that got to the round of eight 2 years ago. Three of those guys got significant minutes. 1 was a starter and 1 was the 1st guy off the bench. I saw them play their final 2 games that year and while this year's team isn't as strong as that version, they still have NCAA tournament experience as they won a 1st round game last year and lost to Franklin and Marshall,(who went to the Final Four last year), by 2 points in the 2nd round . Their current team returns 7 of the top 8 players from last year's squad. If I have to pick a winner of this game I'd probably go with Brandeis because of their experience. That doesn't mean Fisher can't win this game because they can. Brandeis has had some problems on the road this year losing to teams that they should have beaten. They are a good playmaking team with a well balanced offense as 5 guys average between 10 and 14 points per game. Fisher could also get lucky and Brandeis could get upset by SLU. The Saints are playing their best basketball of the season lately, as the young talent on this team has finally learned how to win the close ones, instead of throwing them away. An SLU victory wouldn't surprise me but again I think the Judges, an older, more experienced team will prevail. Good luck if you get to play them. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 03, 2010, 11:43:53 AM
    I think Fisher will do well this weekend because of their solid defense and rebounding.  Defense typically wins this time of year and I think Fisher can get just enough scoring to get by.  They are one of the top rated defenses in the country:

    6th of 404 in scoring defense per game - 59.0 allowed
    6th of 404 in field goal percentage defense - 37.4%
    8th of 404 in rebounding margin - outrebounding opponents by 8.1 a game

    They are a solid defensive squad that does not gamble.  They keep their man in front of them and don't gamble on steals:

    368th in the country in steals only 5.7 a game

    I have Fisher advancing to face Middlebury in the Sweet 16.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 04, 2010, 06:37:20 AM
    Live stats and videocast of the Naz/Medaille game and the Plattsburgh /SUNYIT game are available this Friday and Saturday from Plattsburgh. Here are the links.


    Live Stats:   http://www.sidearmstats.com/plattsburgh/mbball/index.htm

    videocast:   http://www.primelink1.com/


    Friday's games
    Naz/Medaille game starts at 6 PM
    Plattsburgh/SUNYIT starts at 8 PM

    Saturday's game will match Friday's winners at 7 PM

    For any Nazareth, Medaille, or SUNYIT fans that plan on making the trip up North here's the ticket info.
    Tickets go on sale at the door on gameday starting at 4:30 PM. Prices for each day of competition are $6.00 for general admission, $3.00 for senior citizens and students.

    Hotels: All are in the same general area and approx 1-2 miles from the college straight down the road.

    Days Inn and Suites  518-561-0403
    Holiday Inn 518-561-5000
    The Inn at Smithfield  518-561-7823
    Hampton Inn and Suites 518-324-1100
    LaQuinta Inns Inc   518-562-4000

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 04, 2010, 07:44:57 AM
    Nice job Magic,  +k .........Makes it easy for those attending........

    Good luck, Naz and Fisher............make us proud....... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2010, 03:33:05 PM
    Don't forget, final three-plus hours to enter the D3hoops.com bracket challenge.

    You have extra time for the women's bracket, since the first game isn't until 4 p.m. ET on Friday.

    http://www.d3hoops.com/pickem/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on March 04, 2010, 07:29:44 PM
    Pat Coleman has Fisher as the team "most likely to disappoint". This certainly reinforces my theory that from the beginning Fisher has been unnecessarily  disrespected. They have been the ultimate "but" team.  As in, Fisher is good and will probably win the league BUT I wouldn't be surprised to see them fail. I guess this is why they play the games.


    VIVA LA CARDS!!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 05, 2010, 05:46:25 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on March 04, 2010, 07:44:57 AM
    Nice job Magic,  +k .........Makes it easy for those attending........

    Good luck, Naz and Fisher............make us proud....... ;)

    Back at you. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 05, 2010, 03:16:54 PM
    Here's my guesses on tonight's action involving New York teams.

    Plattsburgh St. 82    SUNYIT  70
    Medaille 76   Nazareth  72
    St. John Fisher 73  Brooklyn 65
    Brandeis 77  St. Lawrence  68
    Oneonta 68  Franklin and Marshall  66

    Hope I'm wrong on the St. Lawrence score.

    Naz/Medaille is tough game to pick because of Medaille's weak schedule, but they do have an impressive win over John Carroll.

    Oneonta with a tough game against D3Hoops #20th ranked Franklin and Marshall  and are the dogs here but the Red Dragons own a win over #10th ranked William Paterson and I think they can get it done here if they play to their potential. 

    Time to go get my tickets for the games in Plattsburgh tonight. I'll come on after the games with a synopsis of them.    GO CARDS!!! Both teams of them.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUSaxons33344 on March 05, 2010, 08:35:27 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 05, 2010, 03:16:54 PM
    Here's my guesses on tonight's action involving New York teams.

    Plattsburgh St. 82    SUNYIT  70
    Medaille 76   Nazareth  72
    St. John Fisher 73  Brooklyn 65
    Brandeis 77  St. Lawrence  68
    Oneonta 68  Franklin and Marshall  66

    Hope I'm wrong on the St. Lawrence score.

    Naz/Medaille is tough game to pick because of Medaille's weak schedule, but they do have an impressive win over John Carroll.

    Oneonta with a tough game against D3Hoops #20th ranked Franklin and Marshall  and are the dogs here but the Red Dragons own a win over #10th ranked William Paterson and I think they can get it done here if they play to their potential. 

    Time to go get my tickets for the games in Plattsburgh tonight. I'll come on after the games with a synopsis of them.    GO CARDS!!! Both teams of them.



    Close guess with the Naz - 78-72, I believe, in OT Medaille pulled it out.  Naz was up 10 with a couple minutes left...collapsed...  McAdam with an awesome career. One of the best players in Naz history!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 05, 2010, 08:46:43 PM
    Quote from: AUSaxons33344 on March 05, 2010, 08:35:27 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 05, 2010, 03:16:54 PM
    Here's my guesses on tonight's action involving New York teams.

    Plattsburgh St. 82    SUNYIT  70
    Medaille 76   Nazareth  72
    St. John Fisher 73  Brooklyn 65
    Brandeis 77  St. Lawrence  68
    Oneonta 68  Franklin and Marshall  66

    Hope I'm wrong on the St. Lawrence score.

    Naz/Medaille is tough game to pick because of Medaille's weak schedule, but they do have an impressive win over John Carroll.

    Oneonta with a tough game against D3Hoops #20th ranked Franklin and Marshall  and are the dogs here but the Red Dragons own a win over #10th ranked William Paterson and I think they can get it done here if they play to their potential. 

    Time to go get my tickets for the games in Plattsburgh tonight. I'll come on after the games with a synopsis of them.    GO CARDS!!! Both teams of them.



    Close guess with the Naz - 78-72, I believe, in OT Medaille pulled it out.  Naz was up 10 with a couple minutes left...collapsed...  McAdam with an awesome career. One of the best players in Naz history!

    He had a couple tough plays down the stretch -- finished with 7 TOs and missed an open layup with about 13 seconds in overtime that would have cut the lead to two.  Naz had the game -- up 10 with 5 to go...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 05, 2010, 08:54:29 PM
    Fisher is really struggling with Brooklyn's pressure in the first half. At the half Fisher is down 1. Hopefully some adjustments are in the works for the second half. Not a great half, but not a horrible one either. Fisher needs Henderson to start taking and making some threes. They are way to dependent on the inside game right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 05, 2010, 09:13:44 PM
    Fisher opens the 2nd half on a bit of a spurt, and are up 4.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 05, 2010, 09:42:34 PM
    Fisher still struggling. Down 2 with a few to go. Not too comfortable with this.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 05, 2010, 10:00:13 PM
    Fisher pulled it out late by 4. Fisher tried to give the game away at the end, but had enough to win. They built a 4 point lead with a minute left. Fisher tried to go to the basket when they could have held the ball, turned it over. Got a stop, turned it over, and then fouled to top it off. But a win is a win, and Fisher is on to play the Judges. Fisher better clean some stuff up before tomorrow, but you have to be proud of the effort if you are a Fisher fan.

    PHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 06, 2010, 12:44:39 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on March 05, 2010, 08:46:43 PM
    Quote from: AUSaxons33344 on March 05, 2010, 08:35:27 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 05, 2010, 03:16:54 PM
    Here's my guesses on tonight's action involving New York teams.

    Plattsburgh St. 82    SUNYIT  70
    Medaille 76   Nazareth  72
    St. John Fisher 73  Brooklyn 65
    Brandeis 77  St. Lawrence  68
    Oneonta 68  Franklin and Marshall  66

    Hope I'm wrong on the St. Lawrence score.

    Naz/Medaille is tough game to pick because of Medaille's weak schedule, but they do have an impressive win over John Carroll.

    Oneonta with a tough game against D3Hoops #20th ranked Franklin and Marshall  and are the dogs here but the Red Dragons own a win over #10th ranked William Paterson and I think they can get it done here if they play to their potential.  

    Time to go get my tickets for the games in Plattsburgh tonight. I'll come on after the games with a synopsis of them.    GO CARDS!!! Both teams of them.



    Close guess with the Naz - 78-72, I believe, in OT Medaille pulled it out.  Naz was up 10 with a couple minutes left...collapsed...  McAdam with an awesome career. One of the best players in Naz history!

    He had a couple tough plays down the stretch -- finished with 7 TOs and missed an open layup with about 13 seconds in overtime that would have cut the lead to two.  Naz had the game -- up 10 with 5 to go...

    AUSaxons and bomber3,
    Yeah, I was sitting with a bunch of Medaille fans and they couldn't beleive it when I showed them my sheet with the scores I had posted before I left for the game. Medaille player came to the line with just a couple seconds to go in OT with the score 76-72 and I told them I was going to yell at him to miss but of course he had to spoil it by swishing both of them. Same guy was 5x11 before he made the final pair. Medaille was horrible from the line only 14x27.  

    Naz really did blow it. I didn't think there was any way Medaille could win after Stephens hit a bucket to make the score 60-49 with 5:27 to play. Medaille got a pair of free throws and then 3 straight buckets to close within 3 with 2:18 to play. Twice in the final 29 seconds Naz missed 1 of 2 free throws and then Medaille came down with 13 seconds left and almost failed to get off a shot but a pass into the corner to Medaille's  Keith Hack resulted in the basket that tied it up. The buzzer went off with the ball in the air; nothing but net. In the overtime Medaille jumped out to a quick 4 point lead and was never headed.

    I was close on my Brandeis-SLU prediction as that score was 76-64.

    Fisher score was lower than I thought it was going to be but at least I picked the right winner.

    I knew I might get the Oneonta-Franklin and Marshall game wrong but went with the Red Dragons anyway. A little surprised at the 91-77 final score though.

    Plattsburgh-SUNYIT was the big surprise and toughest loss to take of course. I expected Plattsburgh to take care of business tonight but they were too tight all night long. SUNYIT has a solid team and Diloo Brown was the best player tonight on any of the four teams I watched play. He scored 31 points on 11x21 fg, 6x11 3's and 3x4 ft. Tough to pick a winner between Medialle and SUNYIT.  
     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on March 06, 2010, 01:43:26 AM
    I agree with sjfcards.......we got lucky. Or at least did not play very well. CUNY Brooklyn was a noble opponent but ultimately couldn't maintain an effective pressure defense against the cards. Fisher played like **** and I'm not confident we do well against Brandeis. Our senior leadership is non-existent at the moment. I'm sure I'm overreacting though. I'm pumped for tommorrow.


    VIVA LA CARDS!!!!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: WNYHoops on March 06, 2010, 08:35:22 AM
    I wrote on this board a few weeks back how good I thought both Medaille and SUNY IT were ... even though they play in lesser conferences. Fact is both the AMCC and NEAC have a few teams at the top of their leagues who could, and would, be very competitive and compete for championships in any league in the state. They proved it last night. Medaille is a true system team who is smart, well-coached and disciplined in their approach. SUNYIT is super athletic with two great players in Brown and Goleimbowski. They took down the winners of the Empire 8 and SUNYAC so please don't discount these "lesser" leagues and programs in the future. I read people bashing them for a weak conference and discounting them all the time on these boards. Fact is many schools from the LL, Empire 8 and SUNYAC won't schedule schools like Medaille, SUNYIT, Pitt Brad, Wells and Penn State Behrend because they know how difficult it is to play them. Hats off to the little guy for taking down the big dogs. That is what March Madness is all about!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: the golden flyer on March 06, 2010, 11:52:57 AM
    Quote from: WNYHoops on March 06, 2010, 08:35:22 AM
    I wrote on this board a few weeks back how good I thought both Medaille and SUNY IT were ... even though they play in lesser conferences. Fact is both the AMCC and NEAC have a few teams at the top of their leagues who could, and would, be very competitive and compete for championships in any league in the state. They proved it last night. Medaille is a true system team who is smart, well-coached and disciplined in their approach. SUNYIT is super athletic with two great players in Brown and Goleimbowski. They took down the winners of the Empire 8 and SUNYAC so please don't discount these "lesser" leagues and programs in the future. I read people bashing them for a weak conference and discounting them all the time on these boards. Fact is many schools from the LL, Empire 8 and SUNYAC won't schedule schools like Medaille, SUNYIT, Pitt Brad, Wells and Penn State Behrend because they know how difficult it is to play them. Hats off to the little guy for taking down the big dogs. That is what March Madness is all about!!


    WNYHoops, I was one of those guys I won't deny it. I must say, Medaille is better than I thought and I tip my cap to them. I did not see any of the SUNYIT vs. Plattsburgh game but a great win for SUNYIT to say the least on an opposing team's home court. Naz seemed to have the game all but wrapped up after Stephens bucket with 5 and change to play. After watching most of Naz games this year, this is the first game that they let slip away late in the game with a big lead. McAdam was able to carry his team on his back for the end of games throughout the year but unable to do so last night. I don't want to say I should have seen this coming, but with a team that has 1 senior and 1 junior(who hardly saw the floor this year) , inexperience and underclassmen mistakes were inevitable. And as for last night's game, Naz was unable to lock the game up with free throws down the stretch. But give credit to a gritty Medaille team for making big shots down the stretch and making their free throws in overtime. 

    As a fan of Naz these last few years, it has been a pleasure to watch Corey McAdam play the game. A truly unselfish player and a class act for all 4 years. He is certainly one of the best players the E8 has seen and best of luck if he chooses to continue his basketball career professionally..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2010, 12:49:48 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on March 06, 2010, 01:43:26 AM
    Fisher played like **** and I'm not confident we do well against Brandeis.

    Sounds like you are "unnecessarily disrespecting" St. John Fisher ...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 06, 2010, 01:44:19 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2010, 12:49:48 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on March 06, 2010, 01:43:26 AM
    Fisher played like **** and I'm not confident we do well against Brandeis.

    Sounds like you are "unnecessarily disrespecting" St. John Fisher ...

    Phenomenal!!!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on March 06, 2010, 02:53:32 PM
    Out of the 3 leagues I follow (E-8, LL, & YAC) only SJF is left in the dance???? Thought NAZ-Medaille game would be close but totally surprised over Cards @ home losing to SUNYIT.  Just thought the Cards had too much depth.  From what Magic says seems like they got into too big a hole early.  Next year if they play to potential it could be an amazing year for the Cards. Hope SJF can pull the upset over Brandeis and keep me interested... Although a Medaille win would suit me fine also as  I have a buddy's son on the team to root for. Anyways go Fisher!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on March 06, 2010, 03:17:30 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on March 06, 2010, 01:44:19 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2010, 12:49:48 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on March 06, 2010, 01:43:26 AM
    Fisher played like **** and I'm not confident we do well against Brandeis.

    Sounds like you are "unnecessarily disrespecting" St. John Fisher ...

    Phenomenal!!!





    I love it. I stand by everything I wrote but I appreciate being called out on the things I say, especially from different viewpoints. I would argue my quote above was slightly out of context but that is neither here nor there. I hope now people won't whine as much and lower my karma rating when I try to prove a point. Fisher is good and I have maintained that point consistently throughout the year. Let the haters hate while the players play. Looking forward to the game tonight!

    VIVA LA CARDS!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 06, 2010, 05:59:21 PM
    Well we are just about an hour away from the Fisher/Brandeis game tonight and I am officially watching the game at home tonight. The wife put the nix on a quick trip to Rochester tonight (I don't know what I have to do. I offered to buy her a Garbage plate!).

    Anyway, I think Fisher will need perhaps their most complete game of the year tonight. I think a lot depends on how they shoot the ball from deep. Even after the way Fisher played last night, I think they have a chance at home. I hope anyway. LETS GO CARDS!!!!!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 06, 2010, 07:04:32 PM
    Anyone else having trouble with the video feed from the Fisher game tonight? No audio last night, no video tonight...come on people.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: deiscanton on March 06, 2010, 07:07:56 PM
    Yes, St John Fisher is terrible with video feeds.  It is like they never did videocasting until last night.  I have to listen to WBRS's audio of the game to get the coverage.

    C'mon Cardinal guys.  You can do better than that.  Camera not turned on--microphone not turned on-- please. 

    Frustrating that I can't watch Brandeis take the lead on you guys.  Jeff Pickette is great on the commentary, though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 06, 2010, 07:25:05 PM
    Quote from: deiscanton on March 06, 2010, 07:07:56 PM
    Yes, St John Fisher is terrible with video feeds.  It is like they never did videocasting until last night.  I have to listen to WBRS's audio of the game to get the coverage.

    C'mon Cardinal guys.  You can do better than that.  Camera not turned on--microphone not turned on-- please. 

    Frustrating that I can't watch Brandeis take the lead on you guys.  Jeff Pickette is great on the commentary, though.

    Easy brother, Fisher typically does a very good job with the video (including bringing students workers to visitors gyms to make sure their is a video feed). They are having trouble this weekend, but lets settle down a little.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Go Naz on March 07, 2010, 02:59:56 AM
    Ok...its 3am and I'm still wide awake so I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot a little bit.  You have one game to win....Corey Mcadam....Sean Burton or Sean O'Brien....who do you want to run the show for your team?  Obviously I am biased but I take Mcadam... I believe that he is arguably the best player in Empire 8history and I take him over the other two in any situation....thoughts??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on March 07, 2010, 06:56:44 AM
    Gonna be an E8-SUNYAC championship tilt in the ECAC Upstate Men's Basketball Championship this afternoon as both LL teams that threw their hats into the ring fell on Saturday, both getting drilled.

    No. 2 SUNY Brockport throttled No. 3 Hobart, 86-59; while No. 1 Ithaca drubbed No. 4 RPI, 88-67, to advance.

    The championship game will be played at 2 p.m. this afternoon at SUNY Brockport.

    I'm a little behind here, so please excuse that, but why are the games being played at Brockport if Ithaca is the top seed?

    And, yeah, it is the "Not Invited Tournament" for D-III, but interesting that Ithaca is the last E-8 team left playing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: deiscanton on March 07, 2010, 07:15:47 AM
    Ithaca chose not to host ECAC tournament action this weekend, most likely due to the fact that Ithaca was already hosting the NCAA DIII Women's Basketball Tournament first and second round games this weekend-- Because of NCAA security arrangements, Ithaca could not host both ECAC semifinals and the NCAA second round game on the same day.

    Ithaca indicated that they were only willing to host an ECAC quarterfinal game this week when they filed their declaration papers expressing interest in competing for the ECAC Upstate Championship.

    The info can be found at:

    http://www.ecac.org/championships/team/mbkb/2009-10/2009-10_DIII_Men-s_Basketball_Declared_Teams.pdf



    Quote from: buck1053 on March 07, 2010, 06:56:44 AM
    Gonna be an E8-SUNYAC championship tilt in the ECAC Upstate Men's Basketball Championship this afternoon as both LL teams that threw their hats into the ring fell on Saturday, both getting drilled.

    No. 2 SUNY Brockport throttled No. 3 Hobart, 86-59; while No. 1 Ithaca drubbed No. 4 RPI, 88-67, to advance.

    The championship game will be played at 2 p.m. this afternoon at SUNY Brockport.

    I'm a little behind here, so please excuse that, but why are the games being played at Brockport if Ithaca is the top seed?

    And, yeah, it is the "Not Invited Tournament" for D-III, but interesting that Ithaca is the last E-8 team left playing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 07, 2010, 07:22:05 AM
    I posted this on the SUNYAC board and here just in case anyone was interested. If you're not don't read it. ;D  Was a fun game to watch though.

    Very entertaining game Saturday night between SUNYIT and Medaille at Memorial Hall in Plattsbugh. SUNYIT won it 64-63 but just like Friday night's win over Nazareth, Medaille had a chance to hit  the last shot and walk off the court with a win.
    The Wildcats from Utica came flying out of the gate with a 5-0 lead that was stretched to double digits 6 and a half minutes into the game. Diloo Brown opened the scoring with 5 straight points, followed by 5 points from Fitzpatrick Thorne. After a Dave Golembiowski jumper it was Aaron Swancott's turn to score 5 points and just like that it was 17-7. The Wildcats would increase their lead to 13 at 21-8 with 9 minutes gone by when Medaille decided it was time to regroup. Or rather Mike Bekun of the Mavericks decided it was time to act. Berkun hit a jumper, then a triple, followed by a jumper by Ricky Reed. The Wildcat's Thorne brought the lead back to 8 with a monster dunk off a nice Diloo Brown feed, and then Berkun went back to work hitting 2 straight trifectas to give Medaille their 1st lead of the game at 24-23 with 6:10 to play in the period. Back came the Wildcats with an 11-0 run of their own capped by another Diloo Brown 3 pointer to restore a double digit lead at 34-24 with 2:10 remaining in the half. A 3 pointer by Keith Hack as the period ended, found Medaille down 35-29 at the break and the Maverick fans were happy that the margin wasn't larger.
    Hoping to cut into the Wildcat's lead to start the 2nd and puzzled why SUNYIT's big man, Golembiowski stayed out beyond the arc attempting 3 pointers, the Medaille contingent soon had their answer. After going 0-3 from long range in the 1st half and missing another 3 point attempt early in the 2nd, Golembiowski poured in 13 of the next 15 Wildcat points. He started with 3 inside baskets completing a 3 point play on one and finished with back to back triples to stretch the Wildcat lead to as much as 18. His 1st 3 pointer made the score 47-29, completing a 12-0 run to open the half and after 4 Maverick points he hit a second 3 pointer to make it 50- 33 with only 4:28 gone by in the half. But the Mavericks refused to pack it in and still down 15 at 60-45 with 8:51 left to play they slowly chipped away and cut the lead to 9 at 60-51. SUNYIT's Thorne gets fouled on a made jumper and completes the 3 point play to again stretch the lead to 13, 64-51 with 6:13 to go. The Wildcats would not score another point. Trying to eat time off the clock the Wildcats deliberate half court offense backfired as they either missed their shot (0-7) or turned the ball over (4 TO's) on their final 11 possessions. Meanwhile a jumper by Keith Hack, a 3 pointer by Chris Moscato, a short jumper by Ron Malicki, and a jumper by Ricky Reed made it 64-60 with 3:06 to play. Medaille loses an opportunity when Reed misses 2 foul shots with 2:21 left and after another Wildcat turnover, Keith Hack's layup attempt at the 1:48 mark hits the front of the rim and tries to roll in but it appears basket interference occurs while the ball is on the rim. The refs don't make the call as the bench goes wild and Coach MacDonald has to be restrained by his assistants to prevent a technical. The Wildcats come down, miss a 3 point attempt, get the rebound and Adam Swancott is fouled. He misses the front end of a 1&1, the Mavericks' Malicki grabs the rebound, drives to the hoop, makes the basket and is fouled. He hits the free throw to cut it to 64-63 with 49 seconds left. SUNYIT comes down and misses a 3 by Golembiowski with 17 seconds left. Medaille rebounds the ball and brings it down for the final shot but Reed loses the handle, gets tied up with the possession arrow going to SUNYIT and 7 seconds left in the game. Taking the ball out of bounds on the sideline at Medaille's end the SUNYIT fans witnessed the shortest 5 seconds in recorded history as the ref makes a 5 second call on the inbounds pass to give the Mavericks one final opportunity. The Medaille fans I were sitting with were stunned at the turn of events ( but extremely happy) and were pretty sure it was a makeup call for the missed basket interference. (No doubt about it) It was all for naught though, as the Medaille player (he shall remain nameless by me) loses the ball as he makes his move to the basket. SUNYIT's Diloo Brown comes up with the ball and throws it the length of the court as time expires.

    The Wildcats Were led by Golembiowski with 22 points and 15 rebounds. Brown and Thorne both had 14 pts while Swancott added 12.

    Ron Malicki led Medaille with 15 pts followed by Mike Berkun with 14 and Chris Moscato with 12. Keith Hack had 8 pts and was the Mavericks leading rebounder with 9.
    Medaille ends their most successful season in school history at 24-5 and won an NCAA tournament game for the 1st time ever.

    SUNYIT advances to the Sweet 16 for the first time in their history moving a step further than last year when they lost to St. Lawrence in a 2nd round game.
    Williams the #2 ranked team in the country is their next opponent in the sectional on March 12th-13th, which will most likely be held in Williamstown Mass. That sectional will also have Brandeis, who beat #25 St John Fisher, and Rhode Island College who upset #9 Middlebury.

               
         
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 07, 2010, 08:27:50 AM
    Quote from: Go Naz on March 07, 2010, 02:59:56 AM
    Ok...its 3am and I'm still wide awake so I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot a little bit.  You have one game to win....Corey Mcadam....Sean Burton or Sean O'Brien....who do you want to run the show for your team?  Obviously I am biased but I take Mcadam... I believe that he is arguably the best player in Empire 8history and I take him over the other two in any situation....thoughts??

    That is a great topic for conversation. I think I would be satisfied with any of the three, but if I had to choose one, I think I would pick O'Brien. Obviously I am way biased, and I saw him play more than the other two, but I am basing the decision on the fact that he did a lot more winning in his career than the other two. He is also probably the best free throw shooter of the three as well. O'Brien is not as good of a pure shooter than the others but he could get into the lane, and he could always find the open player for an easy two.

    Of course the Naz guy chose Mcadam, and the Fisher guy chose O'Brien. Again, you can make a strong argument for any one of these guys.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on March 07, 2010, 03:46:58 PM
    Tremendous question regarding the 3 players.  Saw a lot of O'Brien in HS and College.  Saw some of Burton in college and never saw McAdam (I am sorry to say).  Totally neutral as a fan but I can say that O'Brien & Burton had alot more talent around them than McAdam.  So I would have to go with Josten finalist McAdam if he had the same talent around him I believe he would have won more. Very unqualified opinion (not having seen McAdam play).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 07, 2010, 03:50:48 PM
    Bombers win the ECAC tournament with a win over Brockport on their home floor 78-71.  D3hoops and the live stats has the scores reversed and is incorrect -- Ithaca won. Congrats to the Bombers as well as to Tom Brown and Will Gaskins -- who have the most wins by any player in Bomber history (75 wins over 4 seasons).  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 07, 2010, 06:56:37 PM
    Brockport St. falls to Ithaca 78-71 in the final of the Upstate ECAC tournament.

    Ithaca led at the half 36-32 but Brockport caught the Bombers at 42 all with 3:12 gone in the 2nd and opened up a 5 pt lead, their largest of the game, with 15:43 to play. The teams would exchange leads 7 more times with 3 ties before Ithaca's Andrei Oztemel hit a 3 pointer with 1:51 remaining to give the Bombers a 71-69 advantage. Ithaca extended their lead to 5 at 74-69, and Brockport closed to within 3 but Ithaca hit 4 foul shots down the stretch to pull away.

    Oztemel was named Most Outstanding player and finished with 14 pts and 8 rebounds. Phil Barera was the game's leading scorer with 23 points and 11 rebounds. Jordan Marcus, Sean Rossi, and Chris Cruz-Rivas all added 11 points each.

    For Brockport, Anthony Hall led the way with 15 pts followed by Jermaine Johnson, Gerald Williams, and Brandon Williams with 11 points each. Andy Marchand chipped in with 10 points.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 07, 2010, 10:05:02 PM
    Quote from: Go Naz on March 07, 2010, 02:59:56 AM
    Ok...its 3am and I'm still wide awake so I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot a little bit.  You have one game to win....Corey Mcadam....Sean Burton or Sean O'Brien....who do you want to run the show for your team?  Obviously I am biased but I take Mcadam... I believe that he is arguably the best player in Empire 8history and I take him over the other two in any situation....thoughts??

    Well, if you use the qualifier of just "running the show" I don't think McAdam is that much better than Burton.

    McAdam17.2 PPG, 5.7 APG, 3.8 turnovers per game (1.5 A/T ratio)
    Burton 17.0 PPG, 5.4 APG, 3.3 turnovers per game (1.6 A/T ratio)

    Pretty much dead even. McAdam scored slightly more, and had more assists, but also turned it over more. Really a draw.

    As for their shooting:

    McAdam: 50.9% from two, 32.6% from three, 78.5% from line
    Burton: 49.0% from two, 37.2% from three, 90% from the line

    McAdam's got the edge from two, but Burton was better from three and significantly better at the line. Overall, Burton was probably the better shooter. They were two different players as far as shooting goes, but personally I'll take the guy who can stretch a defense.

    Now, when you factor in rebounding/defense, McAdam clearly has the edge, which is why he was a more complete player than Burton, and better overall. But I'm not sure rebounds are really part of "running the show." It may depend on how heavily you value shooting the three.

    O'Brien didn't have the scoring touch either Burton or McAdam had, so I'd probably put him third

    I guess if forced I'd take Burton. I think the ability to hit three-pointers would come in handy and he'd be better to close out a game from the line. For what it's worth, IC won five of the seven times those two played.

    What is the Empire 8 record for assists? Is it McAdam's 792? I wonder if Sean Rossi can top it?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 08, 2010, 09:09:16 AM
    I am totally unbiased and looking at how close Mc Adam and Burton are I would have to look at 2 E8 Championships and supporting cast being less, so I will go with McAdam... But in fairness,   all 3 were very good, and I really think we may be forgetting someone else as well.... I don't have anyone in mind, but there must be someone else out there..........

    I am all hooped out.......... may take a rest until October..........It's been fun ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 08, 2010, 09:32:30 AM
    In the Burton/McAdam debate its not even close who was a better shooter.  Burton shot 37% while getting double teamed near the three point line.  McAdam takes wide open threes because teams go under his screens because his outside shot is his offensive weakness (although he shot a respectable 32%). McAdam's threes would be stand-still setshots that he only took to keep defenses honest. That being said he was alot better at getting to the rim and getting to the line.  Mcadam was a better passer in my opinion too.

    Another factor not being mentioned is Mcadam was a gambler on defense.  He had lots of steals but often was out of position and somewhat lost on defense.  If I recall correctly, he would guard the worst offensive player a majority of the time and hid on defense. I would almost say he was a liability -- but correct me if I'm wrong. Burton often guarded the teams quickest guard and was a solid defender overall  -- he wasn't lockdown but was definitely not a liability.  Although Mcadam got more steals (and he got a TON), I think Burton was a better defender overall.

    Also here are the overall career records:

    Mcadam: 61-46 (57%)  2 Empire 8 Tournament Championships, 0-2 in NCAAs
    Burton: 72-38 (65%)  2 Empire 8 Regular Season Championships, 1 ECAC championship, Second round loss in NCAAs (0-1)  

    Go Naz -- you're biased and took Mcadam. I'm biased and will take Burton ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 08, 2010, 09:38:54 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 07, 2010, 10:05:02 PM
    Quote from: Go Naz on March 07, 2010, 02:59:56 AM
    Ok...its 3am and I'm still wide awake so I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot a little bit.  You have one game to win....Corey Mcadam....Sean Burton or Sean O'Brien....who do you want to run the show for your team?  Obviously I am biased but I take Mcadam... I believe that he is arguably the best player in Empire 8history and I take him over the other two in any situation....thoughts??
    What is the Empire 8 record for assists? Is it McAdam's 792? I wonder if Sean Rossi can top it?
    He has 221 at the end of his freshman season (Mcadam had 186 after his freshman year).  Which puts Rossi on pace for ~1000 for his career :o

    If they keep the uptempo style and he avoids injury he has a shot at the all-time record of 917....but thats a LONG ways away.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 08, 2010, 10:04:34 AM
    I would take o'brien. Especially if it comes down late in the game.  Throw stats out the door, you can't compare stats when comparing a fisher player as the stats are spreadout as all 5 players are typically very good and they play well as a team.  I think burton is the most polished skills wise, McAdam is great for the stats but Ive never caught him play that great even when he put up good stats I woudl always say i didnt even notice him doing well how did he get all of those stats.  O'brien is the best to get in the lane and create, he is also probably the best defender out of the 3.  Burton is very good but is hard to compare is he much different.

    O'brien strentghs:
    Stongest
    Best defender
    Winner

    Burton
    Best Shooter
    most fluid

    McAdam
    best stats
    Best rebounder






    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 08, 2010, 10:25:36 AM
    I can't compare O'Brien because I've never seen him play so I will stick to McAdam vs Burton.  Couple other stats I thought of:

    Head to Head:
    Ithaca won 5 of 7 in the 3 years they both played but McAdam won the lone game in the E8 tourney.

    And someone said Burton played with better players.  If that was the case then it would be more difficult for Burton to accumulate stats with better players around him taking shots away.  For a few years McAdam didn't have much help (went 11-15 or something) so he should have put up huge numbers with those players around him. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 08, 2010, 11:40:30 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on March 08, 2010, 09:32:30 AM
    In the Burton/McAdam debate its not even close who was a better shooter.  Burton shot 37% while getting double teamed near the three point line.  McAdam takes wide open threes because teams go under his screens because his outside shot is his offensive weakness (although he shot a respectable 32%). McAdam's threes would be stand-still setshots that he only took to keep defenses honest. That being said he was alot better at getting to the rim and getting to the line.  Mcadam was a better passer in my opinion too.

    Another factor not being mentioned is Mcadam was a gambler on defense.  He had lots of steals but often was out of position and somewhat lost on defense.  If I recall correctly, he would guard the worst offensive player a majority of the time and hid on defense. I would almost say he was a liability -- but correct me if I'm wrong. Burton often guarded the teams quickest guard and was a solid defender overall  -- he wasn't lockdown but was definitely not a liability.  Although Mcadam got more steals (and he got a TON), I think Burton was a better defender overall.

    Also here are the overall career records:

    Mcadam: 61-46 (57%)  2 Empire 8 Tournament Championships, 0-2 in NCAAs
    Burton: 72-38 (65%)  2 Empire 8 Regular Season Championships, 1 ECAC championship, Second round loss in NCAAs (0-1)  

    Go Naz -- you're biased and took Mcadam. I'm biased and will take Burton ;)

    The other thing about McAdam is that he wasn't a threat to hit three pointers. More so than the 32%-37% was that McAdam wasn't a guy that you needed to worry about lighting it up from downtown.

    I did hear from a few people that Burton could have been a better defender than he was, he just chose not to work on it and focused mostly on offense.

    But this "Burton played with better players" thing is so overblown it's insane. That McAdam didn't have help is so comical it makes me laugh. Was Nazareth ever as deep as the IC team from 2009? No. But come on:

    2010: Stephens 12.1 PPG, Corletta 11.7 PPG, Scaffldi 10.2 PPG
    2009: Ryan McAdam 17.8 PPG; Jeff DeHimer 15.1 PPG
    2008: Joe Canori 20.3 PPG; R. McAdam; 14.9 PPG; Higdon 10.5 PPG
    2007: Canori 19.6 PPG; Tyler Smith 14.2 PPG,

    In his four years, he's played with 10 other guys who had double-digit point totals in a season. Compared to Burton:

    2006: Jim Bellis 18.9 PPG
    2007: Jeff Bostic 15.5 PPG, Sean Leahy 12.2 PPG
    2008: Bostic 14.0 PPG, Leahy 13.6 PPG
    2009: Chris Cruz 13.0 PPG, Brendan Rogers 11.4 PPG, Leahy 11.1 PPG, Jordan Marcus 10.2, Bostic 10.2

    Hey, that's 10 guys! Amazing!

    I also like how people talk about how phenomenal Burton's supporting cast was so great, and neglect to point out how terrible they were in most playoff games compared to the guys McAdam got to play with.

    In 2009 in the E-8 game the two teams played, those five guys listed above went a combined 14-38 from the floor. Meanwhile, McAdam's awful teammates Ryan McAdam and Jeff DeHimer go 18-for-23. In the final they go 13-for-22.

    !n 2008, Cruz, Leahy, Rogers and Bostic go 11-for-30 from the floor in the E8 1st round game while Canori, R. McAdam and Higdon go 19-for-36. In the championship, they went 14-29.

    So in two E8 playoff games spanning those two years, the best teammates Burton had fire up a combined 25-68 (.367) while the best ones Corey McAdam plays with go 64-110 (.581) in four games. Seems to me like McAdam's teammates stepped up while Burton's left him hanging. Heck, DeHimer went 18-for18 from the floor in the 2009 Tournament.

    So please, let's stop acting like McAdam played with a bunch of scrubs. Bostic was a stud in the middle and might have been the best player on either team besides those two, but it's not like Canori and Ryan McAdam weren't excellent. And DeHimer raised his game as the stakes rose.

    Note: I'm not trying to rip on the rest of IC's team, I'm just tired of people acting like McAdam was going it alone while Burton just got to watch his teammates light it up. I'm also not saying McAdam's teammates were always great, because they struggled this season in the playoffs. But overall, in the playoffs, give me McAdam's teammates


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 08, 2010, 12:19:15 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 08, 2010, 11:40:30 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on March 08, 2010, 09:32:30 AM
    In the Burton/McAdam debate its not even close who was a better shooter.  Burton shot 37% while getting double teamed near the three point line.  McAdam takes wide open threes because teams go under his screens because his outside shot is his offensive weakness (although he shot a respectable 32%). McAdam's threes would be stand-still setshots that he only took to keep defenses honest. That being said he was alot better at getting to the rim and getting to the line.  Mcadam was a better passer in my opinion too.

    Another factor not being mentioned is Mcadam was a gambler on defense.  He had lots of steals but often was out of position and somewhat lost on defense.  If I recall correctly, he would guard the worst offensive player a majority of the time and hid on defense. I would almost say he was a liability -- but correct me if I'm wrong. Burton often guarded the teams quickest guard and was a solid defender overall  -- he wasn't lockdown but was definitely not a liability.  Although Mcadam got more steals (and he got a TON), I think Burton was a better defender overall.

    Also here are the overall career records:

    Mcadam: 61-46 (57%)  2 Empire 8 Tournament Championships, 0-2 in NCAAs
    Burton: 72-38 (65%)  2 Empire 8 Regular Season Championships, 1 ECAC championship, Second round loss in NCAAs (0-1)  

    Go Naz -- you're biased and took Mcadam. I'm biased and will take Burton ;)

    The other thing about McAdam is that he wasn't a threat to hit three pointers. More so than the 32%-37% was that McAdam wasn't a guy that you needed to worry about lighting it up from downtown.

    I did hear from a few people that Burton could have been a better defender than he was, he just chose not to work on it and focused mostly on offense.

    But this "Burton played with better players" thing is so overblown it's insane. That McAdam didn't have help is so comical it makes me laugh. Was Nazareth ever as deep as the IC team from 2009? No. But come on:

    2010: Stephens 12.1 PPG, Corletta 11.7 PPG, Scaffldi 10.2 PPG
    2009: Ryan McAdam 17.8 PPG; Jeff DeHimer 15.1 PPG
    2008: Joe Canori 20.3 PPG; R. McAdam; 14.9 PPG; Higdon 10.5 PPG
    2007: Canori 19.6 PPG; Tyler Smith 14.2 PPG,

    In his four years, he's played with 10 other guys who had double-digit point totals in a season. Compared to Burton:

    2006: Jim Bellis 18.9 PPG
    2007: Jeff Bostic 15.5 PPG, Sean Leahy 12.2 PPG
    2008: Bostic 14.0 PPG, Leahy 13.6 PPG
    2009: Chris Cruz 13.0 PPG, Brendan Rogers 11.4 PPG, Leahy 11.1 PPG, Jordan Marcus 10.2, Bostic 10.2

    Hey, that's 10 guys! Amazing!

    I also like how people talk about how phenomenal Burton's supporting cast was so great, and neglect to point out how terrible they were in most playoff games compared to the guys McAdam got to play with.

    In 2009 in the E-8 game the two teams played, those five guys listed above went a combined 14-38 from the floor. Meanwhile, McAdam's awful teammates Ryan McAdam and Jeff DeHimer go 18-for-23. In the final they go 13-for-22.

    !n 2008, Cruz, Leahy, Rogers and Bostic go 11-for-30 from the floor in the E8 1st round game while Canori, R. McAdam and Higdon go 19-for-36. In the championship, they went 14-29.

    So in two E8 playoff games spanning those two years, the best teammates Burton had fire up a combined 25-68 (.367) while the best ones Corey McAdam plays with go 64-110 (.581) in four games. Seems to me like McAdam's teammates stepped up while Burton's left him hanging. Heck, DeHimer went 18-for18 from the floor in the 2009 Tournament.

    So please, let's stop acting like McAdam played with a bunch of scrubs. Bostic was a stud in the middle and might have been the best player on either team besides those two, but it's not like Canori and Ryan McAdam weren't excellent. And DeHimer raised his game as the stakes rose.

    Note: I'm not trying to rip on the rest of IC's team, I'm just tired of people acting like McAdam was going it alone while Burton just got to watch his teammates light it up. I'm also not saying McAdam's teammates were always great, because they struggled this season in the playoffs. But overall, in the playoffs, give me McAdam's teammates




    Chose not to work on defense? I would say 99.999% of d3 players do not work on defense and the ones that do are marginal players that need to fill a niche.  You get better on defense by gettng faster, quicker, stronger, and smarter -- which he did over the course of his career. And who did you hear this from? I would guess it is not a reliable source.

    And we're referring to the whole body of work here -- not just three playoff games. McAdam did have a few solid players but most were one dimensional (ie Canori).  Overall, Burton played on alot better teams.  Burton's junior/senior years his teams went 41-12 (77%) -- McAdam's went 31-24 (58%) in his junior/senior years.  Two of his four years Naz didn't even reach .500!! (Freshman year went 11-14 junior year went 13-14).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 08, 2010, 12:55:10 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on March 08, 2010, 12:19:15 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 08, 2010, 11:40:30 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on March 08, 2010, 09:32:30 AM
    In the Burton/McAdam debate its not even close who was a better shooter.  Burton shot 37% while getting double teamed near the three point line.  McAdam takes wide open threes because teams go under his screens because his outside shot is his offensive weakness (although he shot a respectable 32%). McAdam's threes would be stand-still setshots that he only took to keep defenses honest. That being said he was alot better at getting to the rim and getting to the line.  Mcadam was a better passer in my opinion too.

    Another factor not being mentioned is Mcadam was a gambler on defense.  He had lots of steals but often was out of position and somewhat lost on defense.  If I recall correctly, he would guard the worst offensive player a majority of the time and hid on defense. I would almost say he was a liability -- but correct me if I'm wrong. Burton often guarded the teams quickest guard and was a solid defender overall  -- he wasn't lockdown but was definitely not a liability.  Although Mcadam got more steals (and he got a TON), I think Burton was a better defender overall.

    Also here are the overall career records:

    Mcadam: 61-46 (57%)  2 Empire 8 Tournament Championships, 0-2 in NCAAs
    Burton: 72-38 (65%)  2 Empire 8 Regular Season Championships, 1 ECAC championship, Second round loss in NCAAs (0-1)  

    Go Naz -- you're biased and took Mcadam. I'm biased and will take Burton ;)

    The other thing about McAdam is that he wasn't a threat to hit three pointers. More so than the 32%-37% was that McAdam wasn't a guy that you needed to worry about lighting it up from downtown.

    I did hear from a few people that Burton could have been a better defender than he was, he just chose not to work on it and focused mostly on offense.

    But this "Burton played with better players" thing is so overblown it's insane. That McAdam didn't have help is so comical it makes me laugh. Was Nazareth ever as deep as the IC team from 2009? No. But come on:

    2010: Stephens 12.1 PPG, Corletta 11.7 PPG, Scaffldi 10.2 PPG
    2009: Ryan McAdam 17.8 PPG; Jeff DeHimer 15.1 PPG
    2008: Joe Canori 20.3 PPG; R. McAdam; 14.9 PPG; Higdon 10.5 PPG
    2007: Canori 19.6 PPG; Tyler Smith 14.2 PPG,

    In his four years, he's played with 10 other guys who had double-digit point totals in a season. Compared to Burton:

    2006: Jim Bellis 18.9 PPG
    2007: Jeff Bostic 15.5 PPG, Sean Leahy 12.2 PPG
    2008: Bostic 14.0 PPG, Leahy 13.6 PPG
    2009: Chris Cruz 13.0 PPG, Brendan Rogers 11.4 PPG, Leahy 11.1 PPG, Jordan Marcus 10.2, Bostic 10.2

    Hey, that's 10 guys! Amazing!

    I also like how people talk about how phenomenal Burton's supporting cast was so great, and neglect to point out how terrible they were in most playoff games compared to the guys McAdam got to play with.

    In 2009 in the E-8 game the two teams played, those five guys listed above went a combined 14-38 from the floor. Meanwhile, McAdam's awful teammates Ryan McAdam and Jeff DeHimer go 18-for-23. In the final they go 13-for-22.

    !n 2008, Cruz, Leahy, Rogers and Bostic go 11-for-30 from the floor in the E8 1st round game while Canori, R. McAdam and Higdon go 19-for-36. In the championship, they went 14-29.

    So in two E8 playoff games spanning those two years, the best teammates Burton had fire up a combined 25-68 (.367) while the best ones Corey McAdam plays with go 64-110 (.581) in four games. Seems to me like McAdam's teammates stepped up while Burton's left him hanging. Heck, DeHimer went 18-for18 from the floor in the 2009 Tournament.

    So please, let's stop acting like McAdam played with a bunch of scrubs. Bostic was a stud in the middle and might have been the best player on either team besides those two, but it's not like Canori and Ryan McAdam weren't excellent. And DeHimer raised his game as the stakes rose.

    Note: I'm not trying to rip on the rest of IC's team, I'm just tired of people acting like McAdam was going it alone while Burton just got to watch his teammates light it up. I'm also not saying McAdam's teammates were always great, because they struggled this season in the playoffs. But overall, in the playoffs, give me McAdam's teammates




    Chose not to work on defense? I would say 99.999% of d3 players do not work on defense and the ones that do are marginal players that need to fill a niche.  You get better on defense by gettng faster, quicker, stronger, and smarter -- which he did over the course of his career. And who did you hear this from? I would guess it is not a reliable source.

    And we're referring to the whole body of work here -- not just three playoff games. McAdam did have a few solid players but most were one dimensional (ie Canori).  Overall, Burton played on alot better teams.  Burton's junior/senior years his teams went 41-12 (77%) -- McAdam's went 31-24 (58%) in his junior/senior years.  Two of his four years Naz didn't even reach .500!! (Freshman year went 11-14 junior year went 13-14).

    It's not like the Bombers guys weren't good. I'm just not willing to say that they're so much better than McAdam's that somehow McAdam gets bonus points when we debate "Burton vs. McAdam" while Burton gets docked because his teams were loaded

    The argument Naz people seem to make is that McAdam was always the stud and his teammates weren't at his level and so somehow he had more responsibility than Burton did. Canori was one dimensional, but he'd still go for 20 on you.Ryan McAdam was really good, and DeHimer was good in his senior season. Some of the other guys I mentioned were very good.

    Burton had one very good team(2008) and one great team (2009) and two that were just ok (2006 and 2007). There was nothing about those first two teams that made them different than most of the ones in the previous 8 or 9 years.

    And yeah, if we're going to talk about how great those two teams were then we DO have to talk about the postseason. And despite the fact that Naz's 2009 team was under .500 and IC's was the best in the East, Nazareth rose up when it mattered. Ithaca didn't. McAdam's teams went 5-1 in the conference tournaments. Burton's went 0-2. That's relevant. And yeah, it's a small sample size. But who's to blame for that? We'd have a larger sample size of conference championship/NCAA games to work from if IC could've won one one of these years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 08, 2010, 02:01:25 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 08, 2010, 12:55:10 PM

    And yeah, if we're going to talk about how great those two teams were then we DO have to talk about the postseason. And despite the fact that Naz's 2009 team was under .500 and IC's was the best in the East, Nazareth rose up when it mattered. Ithaca didn't. McAdam's teams went 5-1 in the conference tournaments. Burton's went 0-2. That's relevant. And yeah, it's a small sample size. But who's to blame for that? We'd have a larger sample size of conference championship/NCAA games to work from if IC could've won one one of these years.

    It is relevant but it isn't the be all end all.  I'm not saying it shouldn't be looked at but it shouldn't be the only reasoning.  Maybe Naz underacheived greatly in the regular season and then played to their potential twice a year in the playoffs.  So then if they underacheived and went 13-14 should that count against McAdam? I would say yes.

    And I dont think Burton should get docked for stacked teams.  I think he should get more credit for putting up such good numbers on good teams.  It's easy to put up big numbers and go .500 (see Coco, Herring, etc.).  In my opinion he should get more credit for doing so, not less.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 08, 2010, 03:26:21 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on March 08, 2010, 02:01:25 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 08, 2010, 12:55:10 PM

    And yeah, if we're going to talk about how great those two teams were then we DO have to talk about the postseason. And despite the fact that Naz's 2009 team was under .500 and IC's was the best in the East, Nazareth rose up when it mattered. Ithaca didn't. McAdam's teams went 5-1 in the conference tournaments. Burton's went 0-2. That's relevant. And yeah, it's a small sample size. But who's to blame for that? We'd have a larger sample size of conference championship/NCAA games to work from if IC could've won one one of these years.

    It is relevant but it isn't the be all end all.  I'm not saying it shouldn't be looked at but it shouldn't be the only reasoning.  Maybe Naz underacheived greatly in the regular season and then played to their potential twice a year in the playoffs.  So then if they underacheived and went 13-14 should that count against McAdam? I would say yes.

    And I dont think Burton should get docked for stacked teams.  I think he should get more credit for putting up such good numbers on good teams.  It's easy to put up big numbers and go .500 (see Coco, Herring, etc.).  In my opinion he should get more credit for doing so, not less.

    When did I mention it being the only thing? Wasn't I the guy who put in their career shooting numbers? I'm pretty sure I was the guy who said he would take Burton. I just think that the "Burton's teammates made him better and McAdam's hurt him" argument is flawed, and in my opinion, the playoff games illustrate that because many of Burton's teammates struggled in them and McAdam's often played better--had DeHimer ever shot that well in his career? Or in video games? 18-for18? Insane

    For example, in the three playoff games:

    Leahy: 22 points in three games on 2-19 shooting from three and 9-33 overall.
    Bostic: 26 points in three games and hampered by an injury in 2009, only playing 48 minutes in those games.
    Marcus: 16 points in two games on 5-18 and 3-13 from three in his one year.
    Cruz: 23 points in three games

    Rodgers had a couple of nice games, but overall, if anything, it was Burton who had to carry the team and do it all--AKA "Pulling a C. McAdam". In three games spanning those two seasons, he scored more points (74) then Leahy, Bostic and Cruz did combined (71)

    To me, this shows that, yeah, most of the times, Burton's teammates were a boon. But for people to say that his stats wouldn't have been as good had he not had good teammates, or that they created opportunities for him McAdam never got, well that's just not the case, because Burton was plenty capable of scoring even when his teammates didn't and I'm pretty sure McAdam got help from DeHimer and Canori and his brother, especially in some of those postseason games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombersquadron on March 08, 2010, 06:05:51 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 08, 2010, 10:04:34 AM
    I would take o'brien. Especially if it comes down late in the game.  Throw stats out the door, you can't compare stats when comparing a fisher player as the stats are spreadout as all 5 players are typically very good and they play well as a team.  I think burton is the most polished skills wise, McAdam is great for the stats but Ive never caught him play that great even when he put up good stats I woudl always say i didnt even notice him doing well how did he get all of those stats.  O'brien is the best to get in the lane and create, he is also probably the best defender out of the 3.  Burton is very good but is hard to compare is he much different.

    O'brien strentghs:
    Stongest
    Best defender
    Winner

    Burton
    Best Shooter
    most fluid

    McAdam
    best stats
    Best rebounder




    It is also safe to say that if you are a Ithaca fan 99% of you are taking Burton, if you are a Naz fan 99% of you are taking McAdam, if you are a Fisher fan 99% of you are taking O'Brien. They all were great players and as FisherDynasty as they all had their individual strengths that might have topped the other two.

    I happened to cross paths with all 3 of these guys. To me it all depends on the "type of show you want to run" to make your choice of which of these 3 guys you would take. They all had solid supporting casts, I think it comes down to more of the system they were in and the system you want to play if you were they guy picking .That is what makes it so tough to pick between these three because they all fit their system so perfectly and made their teams go, which is why they are the three guys that were thrown into the discussion. I have a lot of respect for O'Brien (He won the big game over and over with Fisher) and McAdam (Josten's Award Finalist) but I have to pick Burton (best skills wise in my opinion), best shooter/ scorer, still had a lot of assists, great competitor and was a solid rebounder and defender for his size and the style of play Ithaca used (even more so over Burton's last two years when he was pushing the ball up the floor for 35-40 a night).

    You can pick apart any poster's argument or these three as players, the system played in and how that helped them, or how they players they played with either helped or hindered them. The only way to find an answer is to get input from fans of other teams. Does someone know how to start a poll so that we can maybe have a vote on this subject?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 09, 2010, 01:18:22 PM
    I would rather have Burton than McAdam if starting a team from scratch.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 09, 2010, 01:27:54 PM
    I put up a poll, just for fun
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 09, 2010, 05:34:31 PM
    Having seen all three play, and being a neutral observer, as I have no allegience to any of the 3 schools involved, I voted for Burton. I do agree with bombersquadron that it depends on the system you want to play as to which guy you might choose. Couldn't go wrong with any of these guys, as all three were darn good players.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on March 09, 2010, 09:22:24 PM
    Another factor in the great debate is coaching.  Personally O'Brien definitely had the best coach of the three which matters when it comes to winning games.  Daley was a nice guy but I do not think he achieved maximum results with the talent he had. Did not see a lot of the IC coach but I did see him have his team full court pressing in the second half against a "really modest" Albany Pharmacy team when he was up by 30.  I was not "impressed" by the decision to "press".  Kornacker always has his teams ready and they are always well coached.  Again not having seen McAdam play I do not feel qualified to vote.  Burton vs O'Brien - neutral observer - Burton for me. Truly an awesome discussion and question.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Go Naz on March 09, 2010, 10:18:35 PM
    Quote from: Go Naz on March 07, 2010, 02:59:56 AM
    Ok...its 3am and I'm still wide awake so I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot a little bit.  You have one game to win....Corey Mcadam....Sean Burton or Sean O'Brien....who do you want to run the show for your team?  Obviously I am biased but I take Mcadam... I believe that he is arguably the best player in Empire 8history and I take him over the other two in any situation....thoughts??

    One thing that I feel people are failing to take into account here is the fact that I said "You have one game to win"...if this is the case, I have to take Burton out of the running from the other two.  No disrepect to him, he was a great player, but in arguably the biggest three games of his career he went 0-3 (two E-8 games and one NCAA game)  Both Mcadam and O'Brien won big games, a career record of 13-1 in Empire 8 tournament games and 6 Conference Championships.  Answering this question from the perspective of having just one game to win, I have to take Corey first, followed by O'Brien and then Burton.  Who had the better career is a totally different discussion all together.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 09, 2010, 11:37:53 PM
    Quote from: Go Naz on March 09, 2010, 10:18:35 PM
    Quote from: Go Naz on March 07, 2010, 02:59:56 AM
    Ok...its 3am and I'm still wide awake so I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot a little bit.  You have one game to win....Corey Mcadam....Sean Burton or Sean O'Brien....who do you want to run the show for your team?  Obviously I am biased but I take Mcadam... I believe that he is arguably the best player in Empire 8history and I take him over the other two in any situation....thoughts??

    One thing that I feel people are failing to take into account here is the fact that I said "You have one game to win"...if this is the case, I have to take Burton out of the running from the other two.  No disrepect to him, he was a great player, but in arguably the biggest three games of his career he went 0-3 (two E-8 games and one NCAA game)  Both Mcadam and O'Brien won big games, a career record of 13-1 in Empire 8 tournament games and 6 Conference Championships.  Answering this question from the perspective of having just one game to win, I have to take Corey first, followed by O'Brien and then Burton.  Who had the better career is a totally different discussion all together.

    Well, if we're debating Burton/McCadam and the concept of winning, wouldn't the fact that Burton won more games than McAdam matter? Yeah, thought not.

    When Naz fans talk about Ithaca not winning games they basically mean: "Burton didn't win the three playoff games Ithaca had."

    Of course, they don't mention the 24 points and 6 assists he averaged in those games. I'm sure if Jeff Bostic could have done what Jeff DeHimer did in 2009 (18-for18) instead of limping around on one good ankle and Sean Leahy could have put up as many points in all three games (22) as Ryan McAdam did in the one game against IC (23) instead of firing up bricks from three-point range the Bombers might have been able to win one of those three games.

    Basketball's a team game, not an individual show. If you're going to talk about winning in the playoffs you have to look at how the supporting cast performed.

    I haven't mentioned O'Brien because I really don't remember him, but didn't some other Fisher poster point out that you "throw out the stats" when it comes to O'Brien because on those Fisher teams, everyone was a solid contributor? That's sort of what Fisher's known for isn't it? That overall, team game? How often did you see O'Brien scoring 34 of his team's 76 points because no-one else could hit a shot?

    Interesting side note on that 2009 Naz/IC playoff game: Of the 158 points scored, 136 (86%) of them were scored by six guys, three on each team.




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 10, 2010, 10:18:48 AM
    I know McAdam had his moments but Burton hit plenty of big shots down the stretch of games and was a player that loved the last minute of the game.  One in particular moment comes to mind:

    IC is down two with under two seconds to go in front of a packed gym @ RIT the year they went 24-1 in the regular season.  Burton gets fouled with under two seconds to go with a chance to tie the game if he makes both.  RIT calls timeout to ice Burton -- IC coaches are so confident hes going to make both they setup their defense and basically assumed the shots were in.  If I recall correctly they didn't even mention what happens if he misses.  With a packed gym he calmly nails both foul shots to tie the game --swished them both.  Of course it was to no avail however since Korinchek nailed a half courter at/after  ;)  the buzzer to win.  But everyone forgets those were two pretty darn clutch free throws...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 10, 2010, 02:22:54 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on March 10, 2010, 10:18:48 AM
    I know McAdam had his moments but Burton hit plenty of big shots down the stretch of games and was a player that loved the last minute of the game.  One in particular moment comes to mind:

    IC is down two with under two seconds to go in front of a packed gym @ RIT the year they went 24-1 in the regular season.  Burton gets fouled with under two seconds to go with a chance to tie the game if he makes both.  RIT calls timeout to ice Burton -- IC coaches are so confident hes going to make both they setup their defense and basically assumed the shots were in.  If I recall correctly they didn't even mention what happens if he misses.  With a packed gym he calmly nails both foul shots to tie the game --swished them both.  Of course it was to no avail however since Korinchek nailed a half courter at/after  ;)  the buzzer to win.  But everyone forgets those were two pretty darn clutch free throws...

    Yeah, Burton had a triple-double that game. But apparently only three games he played for IC actually matter...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 10, 2010, 05:51:30 PM
    The Burton, O'Brien, McAdam discussion is a great debate. I stated earlier that if I had to win one game I would take the one that did the most winning, O'Brien. But since the conversation seems to have turned to who has the better skill set I think I would have to go with Burton. All three were incredible players, but Burton was the one that I always felt had the smoothest stroke, and ran the offense the best. Naz did a lot of clear outs, and let McAdam go to the basket. Burton, in my oppinion, made the players around him better, better than McAdam (If that makes any sense).

    I can understand the Naz Fans argument that in the biggest games IC had Burton did not get a win. And, I can understand the IC fans argument that IC won more games than Naz, just lost those three big ones.

    Burton should get some love for winning the regular season title twice. I think that accomplishment says more about who is a better player than a small sample of post season games. It made sense in the "if you had to win one game" argument, but not so much now. If we are talking about one game, I can not understand why anyone would not take O'Brien.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 11, 2010, 12:33:09 AM
    Quote from: Go Naz on March 09, 2010, 10:18:35 PM
    Quote from: Go Naz on March 07, 2010, 02:59:56 AM
    Ok...its 3am and I'm still wide awake so I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot a little bit.  You have one game to win....Corey Mcadam....Sean Burton or Sean O'Brien....who do you want to run the show for your team?  Obviously I am biased but I take Mcadam... I believe that he is arguably the best player in Empire 8history and I take him over the other two in any situation....thoughts??

    One thing that I feel people are failing to take into account here is the fact that I said "You have one game to win"...if this is the case, I have to take Burton out of the running from the other two.  No disrepect to him, he was a great player, but in arguably the biggest three games of his career he went 0-3 (two E-8 games and one NCAA game)  Both Mcadam and O'Brien won big games, a career record of 13-1 in Empire 8 tournament games and 6 Conference Championships.  Answering this question from the perspective of having just one game to win, I have to take Corey first, followed by O'Brien and then Burton.  Who had the better career is a totally different discussion all together.

    However, in the biggest game of Corey's career, last Friday against Medaille at Plattsburgh State, in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament, this is what he did in the final 5:23 of regulation with Nazareth up by 9 points 60-51. At the 5:00 mark he had a turnover, missed a jumper at 4:27, committed a foul at 4:24, and missed a 3 pointer at 3:55. After a Medaille basket to cut the lead to 7 at 3:30 he missed a jumper at 3:05. Another Medaille basket cut the lead to 5 at 2:38 and 3 seconds later McAdam turned it over again which led to another Medaille score to cut the lead to 3 with 2:23 to go. He assisted on a Corletta jumper at 2:05 to restore the lead to 5, but Medaille scored 10 seconds later to make it a single possession game. Naz's inability to hit foul shots, going 1of 2 in 3 straight trips to the stripe, opened the door and Medaille sent it to overtime. Had McAdam been at the line they probably would have pulled the game out (he was 5x5 ft's) but he wasn't, and they didn't, so the blame is a shared thing.

    Medaille opened the overtime session with a basket and Naz looked to McAdam to tie it up but he missed the shot and after a Medaille miss came down and missed again. Still down by 2 as both teams continued to misfire, McAdam grabbed a defensive rebound but had the ball stolen by Medaille's Reed that resulted in an easy layup and a four point lead that ultimately was too much for Naz to overcome. In fairness to McAdam he did score all 7 of Nazareth's overtime points but the missed shots and turnovers at  key points in regulation allowed Medaille to get back into the game and force overtime.

    Go Naz, this was the ultimate one game scenario that you mentioned, NCAA game,(they don't come much bigger) plus it would be McAdam's final game in a Nazareth uniform if they lost, and even with a 9 point lead he couldn't close the deal. Sorry, no disrespect to McAdam intended he is a great player but in this big game he came up a little short. It happens. I witnessed the same thing in the game following the Naz/Medaille game when several players on the Plattsburgh State team who have made big plays all year faltered in the final minutes and it resulted in the loss to SUNYIT.

               
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 11, 2010, 09:18:27 AM
    Quote from: magicman on March 11, 2010, 12:33:09 AM
    Quote from: Go Naz on March 09, 2010, 10:18:35 PM
    Quote from: Go Naz on March 07, 2010, 02:59:56 AM
    Ok...its 3am and I'm still wide awake so I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot a little bit.  You have one game to win....Corey Mcadam....Sean Burton or Sean O'Brien....who do you want to run the show for your team?  Obviously I am biased but I take Mcadam... I believe that he is arguably the best player in Empire 8history and I take him over the other two in any situation....thoughts??

    One thing that I feel people are failing to take into account here is the fact that I said "You have one game to win"...if this is the case, I have to take Burton out of the running from the other two.  No disrepect to him, he was a great player, but in arguably the biggest three games of his career he went 0-3 (two E-8 games and one NCAA game)  Both Mcadam and O'Brien won big games, a career record of 13-1 in Empire 8 tournament games and 6 Conference Championships.  Answering this question from the perspective of having just one game to win, I have to take Corey first, followed by O'Brien and then Burton.  Who had the better career is a totally different discussion all together.

    However, in the biggest game of Corey's career, last Friday against Medaille at Plattsburgh State, in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament, this is what he did in the final 5:23 of regulation with Nazareth up by 9 points 60-51. At the 5:00 mark he had a turnover, missed a jumper at 4:27, committed a foul at 4:24, and missed a 3 pointer at 3:55. After a Medaille basket to cut the lead to 7 at 3:30 he missed a jumper at 3:05. Another Medaille basket cut the lead to 5 at 2:38 and 3 seconds later McAdam turned it over again which led to another Medaille score to cut the lead to 3 with 2:23 to go. He assisted on a Corletta jumper at 2:05 to restore the lead to 5, but Medaille scored 10 seconds later to make it a single possession game. Naz's inability to hit foul shots, going 1of 2 in 3 straight trips to the stripe, opened the door and Medaille sent it to overtime. Had McAdam been at the line they probably would have pulled the game out (he was 5x5 ft's) but he wasn't, and they didn't, so the blame is a shared thing.

    Medaille opened the overtime session with a basket and Naz looked to McAdam to tie it up but he missed the shot and after a Medaille miss came down and missed again. Still down by 2 as both teams continued to misfire, McAdam grabbed a defensive rebound but had the ball stolen by Medaille's Reed that resulted in an easy layup and a four point lead that ultimately was too much for Naz to overcome. In fairness to McAdam he did score all 7 of Nazareth's overtime points but the missed shots and turnovers at  key points in regulation allowed Medaille to get back into the game and force overtime.

    Go Naz, this was the ultimate one game scenario that you mentioned, NCAA game,(they don't come much bigger) plus it would be McAdam's final game in a Nazareth uniform if they lost, and even with a 9 point lead he couldn't close the deal. Sorry, no disrespect to McAdam intended he is a great player but in this big game he came up a little short. It happens. I witnessed the same thing in the game following the Naz/Medaille game when several players on the Plattsburgh State team who have made big plays all year faltered in the final minutes and it resulted in the loss to SUNYIT.

               
    He also missed a wide open layup with 15 seconds to go in OT that would have cut Medaille's lead to two.  He missed the shot and the game was over.  Naz was 0-2 in NCAA games with McAdam and Ithaca/Burton were 0-1 but lost in the second round to a team that advanced to the Elite Eight (and returned most of their team and is still alive in this NCAA tourney).  I know Ithaca got to the second round with a bye but they earned the bye by going 24-2 heading into the tourney. Naz lost to a team that lost in the second round BOTH games whereas Ithaca lost to a team that went deep.  I'm not justifying it because a loss is a loss no matter who its to but just pointing out...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on March 11, 2010, 10:33:35 AM
    guys I know theres no naz posters ever on here and fisher is the only 8 team left in the ncaa tourney but i think the PG discussion couldve waited until after the season. 

    Does anyone know what happened to Koch in the Brandeis game, I am assuming he got hurt as he only had 5 minutes logged with no fouls.  That would have been a huge blow.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 11, 2010, 11:48:14 AM
    This is amazing.......... the difference between all 3 is so inconsequential.  Yes it's fun to debate but when reading everyones opinion, I find it comes down to anyone of these guys could come up big, and has come up big. Not one is that much better than the other two which would make the answer definitive...I'll bet if we think real, we can add a few more players to this list.   A poll is fun, and only represents the guys on this site.

    As a side regarding Fisher. Kornicker is a good coach. No matter who they play they are always in the game. Deliberate offense. Less trips.   That's his style, BUT that style also leaves teams that they should beat big hanging around and sometimes picks them off..BUT  ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on March 11, 2010, 12:16:53 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 11, 2010, 10:33:35 AM
    guys I know theres no naz posters ever on here and fisher is the only 8 team left in the ncaa tourney but i think the PG discussion couldve waited until after the season. 

    Does anyone know what happened to Koch in the Brandeis game, I am assuming he got hurt as he only had 5 minutes logged with no fouls.  That would have been a huge blow.

    Good god, man!  You've invented the space/time transmorgifier!  Cuz I can't think of any other way Fisher is still in the NCAA tournament
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 11, 2010, 01:49:32 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 11, 2010, 10:33:35 AM
    guys I know theres no naz posters ever on here and fisher is the only 8 team left in the ncaa tourney but i think the PG discussion couldve waited until after the season. 


    Why? There can only be one discussion at a time on a message board?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 12, 2010, 09:00:38 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 11, 2010, 01:49:32 PM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 11, 2010, 10:33:35 AM
    guys I know theres no naz posters ever on here and fisher is the only 8 team left in the ncaa tourney but i think the PG discussion couldve waited until after the season. 


    Why? There can only be one discussion at a time on a message board?
    I agree -- every E8 team's season is over and has been since last Friday. I believe Go Naz brought up the topic following Naz's loss and one day before Fisher's loss.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on March 12, 2010, 10:06:16 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 09, 2010, 11:37:53 PM

    Of course, they don't mention the 24 points and 6 assists he averaged in those games. I'm sure if Jeff Bostic could have done what Jeff DeHimer did in 2009 (18-for18) instead of limping around on one good ankle and Sean Leahy could have put up as many points in all three games (22) as Ryan McAdam did in the one game against IC (23) instead of firing up bricks from three-point range the Bombers might have been able to win one of those three games.

    Don't have much to say about Leahy, but I saw IC play some during that season and Bostic's issues weren't really due his ankle issue -- which I believe came late in the season anyway -- but more to the fact the Bombers failed to get him involved in the offense. He should have been a dominant force, but he was maybe the 3rd option on the team, finishing 5th on the team in field goals attempted, with by far the best FG% of the top five shot takers on the team.

    Bostic was 91-for-161 in FGs, with a .565 pct., averaging 10 points (6th on the team) and 10.1 rebounds a game. It is important to note he took 0 3-pointers, which helped his FG% compared to the chuckers on the team.

    Comparatively, the top five scorers (by average) from that season:
    Sean Burton — 198-430 FG, .460 pct.; 74-200 3FG, .370 pct.; 22.1 ppg, 7.9 apg, 3.5 rpg
    Chris Cruz — 137-279 FG, .491 pct.; 48-130 3FG, .369 pct.; 13.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg
    Brendan Rogers — 96-209 FG, .459 pct.; 23-74 3FG, .311 pct.; 11.4 ppg, 3.4 rpg
    Sean Leahy — 118-293 FG, .403 pct.; 30-113 3FG, .265 pct.; 6.8 rpg
    Jordan Marcus — 87-233 FG, .373 pct.; 63-168 3FG, .375 pct.; 1.6 rpg

    So:
    Bostic averaged 4.1 makes in 7.3 FG attempts in 28.8 minutes per game

    Compared to:
    Burton averaged averaged 7.3 makes in 15.9 FG attempts in 36.9 minutes per game
    Cruz averaged 5.1 makes in 10.3 FG attempts in 23.5 minutes per game
    Rogers averaged 3.6 makes in 7.7 FG attempts in 27.1 minutes per game
    Leahy averaged 4.4 makes in 10.9 FG attempts 31.7 minutes per game
    Marcus averaged 3.2 makes in 8.6 FG attempts in 17.2 minutes per game

    IC, as has been discussed here before, has become such a run-and-gun team that they largely ignore post players. Especially last season, Burton many times would simply bring the ball up the court and fire up a shot, often not even getting into the offense.

    If you're looking for a guy to win you one game, Burton is only a good option if you have him involving his teammates in the flow of the game. Dribbling down court and chucking up a shot, or passing off to a wing player so they can chuck it up is not running an offense. There is no telling what this team could have accomplished had Burton played less selfishly (I know it's hard to believe, especially since he averaged 7.9 assists per game, but watching him play showed he was quick to call his own number first). Think about what making Bostic the centerpiece of the offense would have done: Obviously, as a post player, he's going to be taking higher percentage shots and his athleticism would have made him a terrifically difficult matchup. If he gets the ball and scores a few in a row down low, the defense is going to start collapsing and you are going to have wing defenders cheating in to help out. That's when he kicks it out to the snipers behind the arc for wide open looks.

    Instead, Burton would come down and fire one up, or pass off to a shooter who would fire one up, producing longer, unpredictable rebounds on misses easily scooped up by defenders. And, as the season wore on, teams could look at the tape and key in on Ithaca's lack of post game to their advantage, because the Bombers didn't adjust well.

    Don't get me wrong, Burton was a fantastic player with a tremendous career, but a little tighter reins on him might have produced more than just E8 and NCAA tournament appearances. There would assuredly have been some wins.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 12, 2010, 11:02:40 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on March 12, 2010, 10:06:16 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 09, 2010, 11:37:53 PM

    Of course, they don't mention the 24 points and 6 assists he averaged in those games. I'm sure if Jeff Bostic could have done what Jeff DeHimer did in 2009 (18-for18) instead of limping around on one good ankle and Sean Leahy could have put up as many points in all three games (22) as Ryan McAdam did in the one game against IC (23) instead of firing up bricks from three-point range the Bombers might have been able to win one of those three games.

    Don't have much to say about Leahy, but I saw IC play some during that season and Bostic's issues weren't really due his ankle issue -- which I believe came late in the season anyway -- but more to the fact the Bombers failed to get him involved in the offense. He should have been a dominant force, but he was maybe the 3rd option on the team, finishing 5th on the team in field goals attempted, with by far the best FG% of the top five shot takers on the team.

    Bostic was 91-for-161 in FGs, with a .565 pct., averaging 10 points (6th on the team) and 10.1 rebounds a game. It is important to note he took 0 3-pointers, which helped his FG% compared to the chuckers on the team.

    Comparatively, the top five scorers (by average) from that season:
    Sean Burton — 198-430 FG, .460 pct.; 74-200 3FG, .370 pct.; 22.1 ppg, 7.9 apg, 3.5 rpg
    Chris Cruz — 137-279 FG, .491 pct.; 48-130 3FG, .369 pct.; 13.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg
    Brendan Rogers — 96-209 FG, .459 pct.; 23-74 3FG, .311 pct.; 11.4 ppg, 3.4 rpg
    Sean Leahy — 118-293 FG, .403 pct.; 30-113 3FG, .265 pct.; 6.8 rpg
    Jordan Marcus — 87-233 FG, .373 pct.; 63-168 3FG, .375 pct.; 1.6 rpg

    So:
    Bostic averaged 4.1 makes in 7.3 FG attempts in 28.8 minutes per game

    Compared to:
    Burton averaged averaged 7.3 makes in 15.9 FG attempts in 36.9 minutes per game
    Cruz averaged 5.1 makes in 10.3 FG attempts in 23.5 minutes per game
    Rogers averaged 3.6 makes in 7.7 FG attempts in 27.1 minutes per game
    Leahy averaged 4.4 makes in 10.9 FG attempts 31.7 minutes per game
    Marcus averaged 3.2 makes in 8.6 FG attempts in 17.2 minutes per game

    IC, as has been discussed here before, has become such a run-and-gun team that they largely ignore post players. Especially last season, Burton many times would simply bring the ball up the court and fire up a shot, often not even getting into the offense.

    If you're looking for a guy to win you one game, Burton is only a good option if you have him involving his teammates in the flow of the game. Dribbling down court and chucking up a shot, or passing off to a wing player so they can chuck it up is not running an offense. There is no telling what this team could have accomplished had Burton played less selfishly (I know it's hard to believe, especially since he averaged 7.9 assists per game, but watching him play showed he was quick to call his own number first). Think about what making Bostic the centerpiece of the offense would have done: Obviously, as a post player, he's going to be taking higher percentage shots and his athleticism would have made him a terrifically difficult matchup. If he gets the ball and scores a few in a row down low, the defense is going to start collapsing and you are going to have wing defenders cheating in to help out. That's when he kicks it out to the snipers behind the arc for wide open looks.

    Instead, Burton would come down and fire one up, or pass off to a shooter who would fire one up, producing longer, unpredictable rebounds on misses easily scooped up by defenders. And, as the season wore on, teams could look at the tape and key in on Ithaca's lack of post game to their advantage, because the Bombers didn't adjust well.

    Don't get me wrong, Burton was a fantastic player with a tremendous career, but a little tighter reins on him might have produced more than just E8 and NCAA tournament appearances. There would assuredly have been some wins.



    When did the Bombers start having all their success?  When they went away from the post game and implemented the Suns' run and gun offense.  I don't want to take anything away from Bostic because he was an all-time great at Ithaca but they started having all their success (17/24 wins in consecutive regular seasons, 2 Empire 8 RS titles) when they implemented the run and gun offense and went away from the post.  Unfortunately, this style typically doesn't correlate into postseason success (see Phoenix, IC) because teams typically are more active defensively in the post season and by that point of the season there is game film to dissect the offense.  It's not easy beating a good team three times in one season (see IC/Naz 2009 or Cuse/Georgetown 2010). 

    So basically I think the question is how many regular season playoff wins would IC have if they maintained the "traditional" style of play (ie feed the post)?  To be honest I think they definitely would have had less regular season wins and probably a playoff win or two.  They would have been in the traditional IC 14-18 win range and wouldn't have come close to a 24-1 regular season. 

    Also you have to look at the team as a whole -- it was guard dominated team.  Burton, Cruz, Rogers, Marcus, and Leahy (despite his size) were guard oriented players and performed better in the system.  Burton and Marcus especially thrived but as a whole everyone improved in the new system -- except Bostic and Tom Brown.  The post players were there to run the floor, rebound, and defend -- which they did well.  Overall, I think it was the right move to switch to the offense and IC wouldn't be experiencing their recent success without it. 

    And for the record long shots = long rebounds, which are more difficult for defenders to scoop up since they typically have the inside position. And I disagree with you about Burton being a selfish player.  The point guard in this offense has a ton of responsbility and although he was typically a shoot first player (most great players are) -- I would definitely not classify him as a selfish player.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on March 12, 2010, 06:03:04 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on March 12, 2010, 11:02:40 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on March 12, 2010, 10:06:16 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 09, 2010, 11:37:53 PM

    Of course, they don't mention the 24 points and 6 assists he averaged in those games. I'm sure if Jeff Bostic could have done what Jeff DeHimer did in 2009 (18-for18) instead of limping around on one good ankle and Sean Leahy could have put up as many points in all three games (22) as Ryan McAdam did in the one game against IC (23) instead of firing up bricks from three-point range the Bombers might have been able to win one of those three games.

    Don't have much to say about Leahy, but I saw IC play some during that season and Bostic's issues weren't really due his ankle issue -- which I believe came late in the season anyway -- but more to the fact the Bombers failed to get him involved in the offense. He should have been a dominant force, but he was maybe the 3rd option on the team, finishing 5th on the team in field goals attempted, with by far the best FG% of the top five shot takers on the team.

    Bostic was 91-for-161 in FGs, with a .565 pct., averaging 10 points (6th on the team) and 10.1 rebounds a game. It is important to note he took 0 3-pointers, which helped his FG% compared to the chuckers on the team.

    Comparatively, the top five scorers (by average) from that season:
    Sean Burton — 198-430 FG, .460 pct.; 74-200 3FG, .370 pct.; 22.1 ppg, 7.9 apg, 3.5 rpg
    Chris Cruz — 137-279 FG, .491 pct.; 48-130 3FG, .369 pct.; 13.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg
    Brendan Rogers — 96-209 FG, .459 pct.; 23-74 3FG, .311 pct.; 11.4 ppg, 3.4 rpg
    Sean Leahy — 118-293 FG, .403 pct.; 30-113 3FG, .265 pct.; 6.8 rpg
    Jordan Marcus — 87-233 FG, .373 pct.; 63-168 3FG, .375 pct.; 1.6 rpg

    So:
    Bostic averaged 4.1 makes in 7.3 FG attempts in 28.8 minutes per game

    Compared to:
    Burton averaged averaged 7.3 makes in 15.9 FG attempts in 36.9 minutes per game
    Cruz averaged 5.1 makes in 10.3 FG attempts in 23.5 minutes per game
    Rogers averaged 3.6 makes in 7.7 FG attempts in 27.1 minutes per game
    Leahy averaged 4.4 makes in 10.9 FG attempts 31.7 minutes per game
    Marcus averaged 3.2 makes in 8.6 FG attempts in 17.2 minutes per game

    IC, as has been discussed here before, has become such a run-and-gun team that they largely ignore post players. Especially last season, Burton many times would simply bring the ball up the court and fire up a shot, often not even getting into the offense.

    If you're looking for a guy to win you one game, Burton is only a good option if you have him involving his teammates in the flow of the game. Dribbling down court and chucking up a shot, or passing off to a wing player so they can chuck it up is not running an offense. There is no telling what this team could have accomplished had Burton played less selfishly (I know it's hard to believe, especially since he averaged 7.9 assists per game, but watching him play showed he was quick to call his own number first). Think about what making Bostic the centerpiece of the offense would have done: Obviously, as a post player, he's going to be taking higher percentage shots and his athleticism would have made him a terrifically difficult matchup. If he gets the ball and scores a few in a row down low, the defense is going to start collapsing and you are going to have wing defenders cheating in to help out. That's when he kicks it out to the snipers behind the arc for wide open looks.

    Instead, Burton would come down and fire one up, or pass off to a shooter who would fire one up, producing longer, unpredictable rebounds on misses easily scooped up by defenders. And, as the season wore on, teams could look at the tape and key in on Ithaca's lack of post game to their advantage, because the Bombers didn't adjust well.

    Don't get me wrong, Burton was a fantastic player with a tremendous career, but a little tighter reins on him might have produced more than just E8 and NCAA tournament appearances. There would assuredly have been some wins.



    When did the Bombers start having all their success?  When they went away from the post game and implemented the Suns' run and gun offense.  I don't want to take anything away from Bostic because he was an all-time great at Ithaca but they started having all their success (17/24 wins in consecutive regular seasons, 2 Empire 8 RS titles) when they implemented the run and gun offense and went away from the post.  Unfortunately, this style typically doesn't correlate into postseason success (see Phoenix, IC) because teams typically are more active defensively in the post season and by that point of the season there is game film to dissect the offense.  It's not easy beating a good team three times in one season (see IC/Naz 2009 or Cuse/Georgetown 2010). 

    So basically I think the question is how many regular season playoff wins would IC have if they maintained the "traditional" style of play (ie feed the post)?  To be honest I think they definitely would have had less regular season wins and probably a playoff win or two.  They would have been in the traditional IC 14-18 win range and wouldn't have come close to a 24-1 regular season. 

    Also you have to look at the team as a whole -- it was guard dominated team.  Burton, Cruz, Rogers, Marcus, and Leahy (despite his size) were guard oriented players and performed better in the system.  Burton and Marcus especially thrived but as a whole everyone improved in the new system -- except Bostic and Tom Brown.  The post players were there to run the floor, rebound, and defend -- which they did well.  Overall, I think it was the right move to switch to the offense and IC wouldn't be experiencing their recent success without it. 

    And for the record long shots = long rebounds, which are more difficult for defenders to scoop up since they typically have the inside position. And I disagree with you about Burton being a selfish player.  The point guard in this offense has a ton of responsbility and although he was typically a shoot first player (most great players are) -- I would definitely not classify him as a selfish player.


    I will concede you have some valid counter arguments, but I do have a question for you:

    Would you rather win 24 games during the regular season or make a lengthy postseason run?

    Lots of teams have great regular seasons only to fold in the playoffs and the legacy isn't with the ones who win during the regular season, it's with the ones that win championships. IC is an awful lot like the 2007 New England Patriots. Will the Pats be remembered for winning their first 18 games of the season? No, they are remembered for losing the Super Bowl. The Bombers run and gun has produced all kinds of regular season wins, but zilch in the postseason.

    Just some food for thought.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 13, 2010, 11:49:58 AM
    Completely agree that teams are remembered for what they do in the postseason, but in the context of the argument of players I think the regular season is a much more representative sample of talent than a few playoff games. Of course playing well when your team needs it most has to be considered, but just like the best team in a conference can lose a conference tournament and still be the best team, a player can have a bad game in the post season and still be better than others that have performed.

    I am pulling for Brandeis to get to the final four. It would make me feel better about Fisher losing to them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 13, 2010, 10:15:56 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on March 12, 2010, 06:03:04 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on March 12, 2010, 11:02:40 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on March 12, 2010, 10:06:16 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 09, 2010, 11:37:53 PM

    Of course, they don't mention the 24 points and 6 assists he averaged in those games. I'm sure if Jeff Bostic could have done what Jeff DeHimer did in 2009 (18-for18) instead of limping around on one good ankle and Sean Leahy could have put up as many points in all three games (22) as Ryan McAdam did in the one game against IC (23) instead of firing up bricks from three-point range the Bombers might have been able to win one of those three games.

    Don't have much to say about Leahy, but I saw IC play some during that season and Bostic's issues weren't really due his ankle issue -- which I believe came late in the season anyway -- but more to the fact the Bombers failed to get him involved in the offense. He should have been a dominant force, but he was maybe the 3rd option on the team, finishing 5th on the team in field goals attempted, with by far the best FG% of the top five shot takers on the team.

    Bostic was 91-for-161 in FGs, with a .565 pct., averaging 10 points (6th on the team) and 10.1 rebounds a game. It is important to note he took 0 3-pointers, which helped his FG% compared to the chuckers on the team.

    Comparatively, the top five scorers (by average) from that season:
    Sean Burton — 198-430 FG, .460 pct.; 74-200 3FG, .370 pct.; 22.1 ppg, 7.9 apg, 3.5 rpg
    Chris Cruz — 137-279 FG, .491 pct.; 48-130 3FG, .369 pct.; 13.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg
    Brendan Rogers — 96-209 FG, .459 pct.; 23-74 3FG, .311 pct.; 11.4 ppg, 3.4 rpg
    Sean Leahy — 118-293 FG, .403 pct.; 30-113 3FG, .265 pct.; 6.8 rpg
    Jordan Marcus — 87-233 FG, .373 pct.; 63-168 3FG, .375 pct.; 1.6 rpg

    So:
    Bostic averaged 4.1 makes in 7.3 FG attempts in 28.8 minutes per game

    Compared to:
    Burton averaged averaged 7.3 makes in 15.9 FG attempts in 36.9 minutes per game
    Cruz averaged 5.1 makes in 10.3 FG attempts in 23.5 minutes per game
    Rogers averaged 3.6 makes in 7.7 FG attempts in 27.1 minutes per game
    Leahy averaged 4.4 makes in 10.9 FG attempts 31.7 minutes per game
    Marcus averaged 3.2 makes in 8.6 FG attempts in 17.2 minutes per game

    IC, as has been discussed here before, has become such a run-and-gun team that they largely ignore post players. Especially last season, Burton many times would simply bring the ball up the court and fire up a shot, often not even getting into the offense.

    If you're looking for a guy to win you one game, Burton is only a good option if you have him involving his teammates in the flow of the game. Dribbling down court and chucking up a shot, or passing off to a wing player so they can chuck it up is not running an offense. There is no telling what this team could have accomplished had Burton played less selfishly (I know it's hard to believe, especially since he averaged 7.9 assists per game, but watching him play showed he was quick to call his own number first). Think about what making Bostic the centerpiece of the offense would have done: Obviously, as a post player, he's going to be taking higher percentage shots and his athleticism would have made him a terrifically difficult matchup. If he gets the ball and scores a few in a row down low, the defense is going to start collapsing and you are going to have wing defenders cheating in to help out. That's when he kicks it out to the snipers behind the arc for wide open looks.

    Instead, Burton would come down and fire one up, or pass off to a shooter who would fire one up, producing longer, unpredictable rebounds on misses easily scooped up by defenders. And, as the season wore on, teams could look at the tape and key in on Ithaca's lack of post game to their advantage, because the Bombers didn't adjust well.

    Don't get me wrong, Burton was a fantastic player with a tremendous career, but a little tighter reins on him might have produced more than just E8 and NCAA tournament appearances. There would assuredly have been some wins.



    When did the Bombers start having all their success?  When they went away from the post game and implemented the Suns' run and gun offense.  I don't want to take anything away from Bostic because he was an all-time great at Ithaca but they started having all their success (17/24 wins in consecutive regular seasons, 2 Empire 8 RS titles) when they implemented the run and gun offense and went away from the post.  Unfortunately, this style typically doesn't correlate into postseason success (see Phoenix, IC) because teams typically are more active defensively in the post season and by that point of the season there is game film to dissect the offense.  It's not easy beating a good team three times in one season (see IC/Naz 2009 or Cuse/Georgetown 2010).  

    So basically I think the question is how many regular season playoff wins would IC have if they maintained the "traditional" style of play (ie feed the post)?  To be honest I think they definitely would have had less regular season wins and probably a playoff win or two.  They would have been in the traditional IC 14-18 win range and wouldn't have come close to a 24-1 regular season.  

    Also you have to look at the team as a whole -- it was guard dominated team.  Burton, Cruz, Rogers, Marcus, and Leahy (despite his size) were guard oriented players and performed better in the system.  Burton and Marcus especially thrived but as a whole everyone improved in the new system -- except Bostic and Tom Brown.  The post players were there to run the floor, rebound, and defend -- which they did well.  Overall, I think it was the right move to switch to the offense and IC wouldn't be experiencing their recent success without it.  

    And for the record long shots = long rebounds, which are more difficult for defenders to scoop up since they typically have the inside position. And I disagree with you about Burton being a selfish player.  The point guard in this offense has a ton of responsbility and although he was typically a shoot first player (most great players are) -- I would definitely not classify him as a selfish player.


    I will concede you have some valid counter arguments, but I do have a question for you:

    Would you rather win 24 games during the regular season or make a lengthy postseason run?

    Lots of teams have great regular seasons only to fold in the playoffs and the legacy isn't with the ones who win during the regular season, it's with the ones that win championships. IC is an awful lot like the 2007 New England Patriots. Will the Pats be remembered for winning their first 18 games of the season? No, they are remembered for losing the Super Bowl. The Bombers run and gun has produced all kinds of regular season wins, but zilch in the postseason.

    Just some food for thought.

    Well, I'll agree that the postseason is important, but that doesn't mean the regular season stops mattering either.

    The fact that the run and gun hasn't gotten the Bombers postseason wins doesn't mean anything to me. Why? Because the Bombers never have done anything in the postseason.

    Seriously, people have to realize how traditionally mediocre the Men's Basketball program was before these last three seasons. The team has made the NCAA's eight times total in it's history. I'm not positive, but I think they've only won one or two games in the NCAA Tournament.

    Now, they've had two-straight 20-win seasons after only having three before 2009 and it's not even a question that the 2009 team is the best in school history. For all it's faults, the run and gun style has raised them to a level of success that's unprecedented. Are they streaky and capable of a clunker? Yeah. But it beats the heck out of boring and mediocre.

    I was talking to a former PG on IC's team recently who mentioned to me how much he'd have loved to have played in that style, but "We always had to run the offense".

    How is Burton "selfish"? Seriously, do people just make stuff up?

    Burton took 1283 of his teams's 6886 shots in his four years (18.0%)
    McAdam took 1309 of his team's 6658 shots in his four years (19.6%)

    As a senior at the helm of that 24-3 team Burton took 22.9% of IC's shots
    As a senior, McAdam took 24.5% of Naz's.

    If you factor in free throws which can often come as the result of getting fouled while shooting and missing a shot (which doesn't count as a FG attempt in the box score) I'm sure McAdam's numbers are even higher considering he attempted 100 more free throws as a senior and 288 more over the course of a career despite the fact that Burton was head and shoulders the better free throw shooter and thus more likely to be the ball-handler at the end of a game when a team needs a free throw to ice it.

    So yeah, I love how Burton gets labeled selfish whlie McAdam shoots more and gets portrayed as the guy who had to carry a team on his shoulders




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 15, 2010, 09:25:21 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 13, 2010, 10:15:56 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on March 12, 2010, 06:03:04 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on March 12, 2010, 11:02:40 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on March 12, 2010, 10:06:16 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 09, 2010, 11:37:53 PM

    Of course, they don't mention the 24 points and 6 assists he averaged in those games. I'm sure if Jeff Bostic could have done what Jeff DeHimer did in 2009 (18-for18) instead of limping around on one good ankle and Sean Leahy could have put up as many points in all three games (22) as Ryan McAdam did in the one game against IC (23) instead of firing up bricks from three-point range the Bombers might have been able to win one of those three games.

    Don't have much to say about Leahy, but I saw IC play some during that season and Bostic's issues weren't really due his ankle issue -- which I believe came late in the season anyway -- but more to the fact the Bombers failed to get him involved in the offense. He should have been a dominant force, but he was maybe the 3rd option on the team, finishing 5th on the team in field goals attempted, with by far the best FG% of the top five shot takers on the team.

    Bostic was 91-for-161 in FGs, with a .565 pct., averaging 10 points (6th on the team) and 10.1 rebounds a game. It is important to note he took 0 3-pointers, which helped his FG% compared to the chuckers on the team.

    Comparatively, the top five scorers (by average) from that season:
    Sean Burton — 198-430 FG, .460 pct.; 74-200 3FG, .370 pct.; 22.1 ppg, 7.9 apg, 3.5 rpg
    Chris Cruz — 137-279 FG, .491 pct.; 48-130 3FG, .369 pct.; 13.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg
    Brendan Rogers — 96-209 FG, .459 pct.; 23-74 3FG, .311 pct.; 11.4 ppg, 3.4 rpg
    Sean Leahy — 118-293 FG, .403 pct.; 30-113 3FG, .265 pct.; 6.8 rpg
    Jordan Marcus — 87-233 FG, .373 pct.; 63-168 3FG, .375 pct.; 1.6 rpg

    So:
    Bostic averaged 4.1 makes in 7.3 FG attempts in 28.8 minutes per game

    Compared to:
    Burton averaged averaged 7.3 makes in 15.9 FG attempts in 36.9 minutes per game
    Cruz averaged 5.1 makes in 10.3 FG attempts in 23.5 minutes per game
    Rogers averaged 3.6 makes in 7.7 FG attempts in 27.1 minutes per game
    Leahy averaged 4.4 makes in 10.9 FG attempts 31.7 minutes per game
    Marcus averaged 3.2 makes in 8.6 FG attempts in 17.2 minutes per game

    IC, as has been discussed here before, has become such a run-and-gun team that they largely ignore post players. Especially last season, Burton many times would simply bring the ball up the court and fire up a shot, often not even getting into the offense.

    If you're looking for a guy to win you one game, Burton is only a good option if you have him involving his teammates in the flow of the game. Dribbling down court and chucking up a shot, or passing off to a wing player so they can chuck it up is not running an offense. There is no telling what this team could have accomplished had Burton played less selfishly (I know it's hard to believe, especially since he averaged 7.9 assists per game, but watching him play showed he was quick to call his own number first). Think about what making Bostic the centerpiece of the offense would have done: Obviously, as a post player, he's going to be taking higher percentage shots and his athleticism would have made him a terrifically difficult matchup. If he gets the ball and scores a few in a row down low, the defense is going to start collapsing and you are going to have wing defenders cheating in to help out. That's when he kicks it out to the snipers behind the arc for wide open looks.

    Instead, Burton would come down and fire one up, or pass off to a shooter who would fire one up, producing longer, unpredictable rebounds on misses easily scooped up by defenders. And, as the season wore on, teams could look at the tape and key in on Ithaca's lack of post game to their advantage, because the Bombers didn't adjust well.

    Don't get me wrong, Burton was a fantastic player with a tremendous career, but a little tighter reins on him might have produced more than just E8 and NCAA tournament appearances. There would assuredly have been some wins.



    When did the Bombers start having all their success?  When they went away from the post game and implemented the Suns' run and gun offense.  I don't want to take anything away from Bostic because he was an all-time great at Ithaca but they started having all their success (17/24 wins in consecutive regular seasons, 2 Empire 8 RS titles) when they implemented the run and gun offense and went away from the post.  Unfortunately, this style typically doesn't correlate into postseason success (see Phoenix, IC) because teams typically are more active defensively in the post season and by that point of the season there is game film to dissect the offense.  It's not easy beating a good team three times in one season (see IC/Naz 2009 or Cuse/Georgetown 2010).  

    So basically I think the question is how many regular season playoff wins would IC have if they maintained the "traditional" style of play (ie feed the post)?  To be honest I think they definitely would have had less regular season wins and probably a playoff win or two.  They would have been in the traditional IC 14-18 win range and wouldn't have come close to a 24-1 regular season.  

    Also you have to look at the team as a whole -- it was guard dominated team.  Burton, Cruz, Rogers, Marcus, and Leahy (despite his size) were guard oriented players and performed better in the system.  Burton and Marcus especially thrived but as a whole everyone improved in the new system -- except Bostic and Tom Brown.  The post players were there to run the floor, rebound, and defend -- which they did well.  Overall, I think it was the right move to switch to the offense and IC wouldn't be experiencing their recent success without it.  

    And for the record long shots = long rebounds, which are more difficult for defenders to scoop up since they typically have the inside position. And I disagree with you about Burton being a selfish player.  The point guard in this offense has a ton of responsbility and although he was typically a shoot first player (most great players are) -- I would definitely not classify him as a selfish player.


    I will concede you have some valid counter arguments, but I do have a question for you:

    Would you rather win 24 games during the regular season or make a lengthy postseason run?

    Lots of teams have great regular seasons only to fold in the playoffs and the legacy isn't with the ones who win during the regular season, it's with the ones that win championships. IC is an awful lot like the 2007 New England Patriots. Will the Pats be remembered for winning their first 18 games of the season? No, they are remembered for losing the Super Bowl. The Bombers run and gun has produced all kinds of regular season wins, but zilch in the postseason.

    Just some food for thought.

    Well, I'll agree that the postseason is important, but that doesn't mean the regular season stops mattering either.

    The fact that the run and gun hasn't gotten the Bombers postseason wins doesn't mean anything to me. Why? Because the Bombers never have done anything in the postseason.

    Seriously, people have to realize how traditionally mediocre the Men's Basketball program was before these last three seasons. The team has made the NCAA's eight times total in it's history. I'm not positive, but I think they've only won one or two games in the NCAA Tournament.

    Now, they've had two-straight 20-win seasons after only having three before 2009 and it's not even a question that the 2009 team is the best in school history. For all it's faults, the run and gun style has raised them to a level of success that's unprecedented. Are they streaky and capable of a clunker? Yeah. But it beats the heck out of boring and mediocre.

    I was talking to a former PG on IC's team recently who mentioned to me how much he'd have loved to have played in that style, but "We always had to run the offense".

    How is Burton "selfish"? Seriously, do people just make stuff up?

    Burton took 1283 of his teams's 6886 shots in his four years (18.0%)
    McAdam took 1309 of his team's 6658 shots in his four years (19.6%)

    As a senior at the helm of that 24-3 team Burton took 22.9% of IC's shots
    As a senior, McAdam took 24.5% of Naz's.

    If you factor in free throws which can often come as the result of getting fouled while shooting and missing a shot (which doesn't count as a FG attempt in the box score) I'm sure McAdam's numbers are even higher considering he attempted 100 more free throws as a senior and 288 more over the course of a career despite the fact that Burton was head and shoulders the better free throw shooter and thus more likely to be the ball-handler at the end of a game when a team needs a free throw to ice it.

    So yeah, I love how Burton gets labeled selfish whlie McAdam shoots more and gets portrayed as the guy who had to carry a team on his shoulders






    Well put.  That's what I was getting at when saying the new offense has moved the program in the right direction.  Prior to it being implemented the team was decent -- typically qualified for the E8 tournamnet but usually only won 14-17 games.  From 2003-2007 they had 12.13.13.16.and 15 wins.  Since then IC has 17, 24, and 20 -- which is the highest total of any three year span in school history.

    And great stats with the McAdam/Burton FG numbers.  I think it may seem Burton took more shots because alot of his shots were deep threes or earlier in the shot clock so they were more recognizable.  McAdam would take 15 shots and you wouldn't realize it because his were around the basket.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 16, 2010, 12:40:50 PM
    The D3Hoops All Region Teams have just been released. Nazareth's Corey McAdam was named the All East Region Player of the Year.  Ithaca College forward Phil Barera was named to the All East Region First Team. Congratulations to all these outstanding players.  Here's the complete list of of award winners:

    Men's All-East Region Team
    Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools. All SIDs in the region were given the opportunity to vote.

    Player of the Year: Corey McAdam, Sr., Nazareth
    Coach of the Year: Kevin Grimmer, SUNYIT
    Rookie of the Year: Stefan Thompson, G, Hobart

    First team

    Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
    G Corey McAdam Nazareth Sr. Fairport, N.Y.
    G Diloo Brown SUNYIT Sr. Harlem, N.Y.
    F Matt Pebole Hobart So. Little Silver, N.J.
    F Phil Barera Ithaca Jr. Belmont, Mass. 
    C David Golembiowski SUNYIT Jr. Barneveld, N.Y.

    Second team

    Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
    G Chris Ruiz Plattsburgh State Jr. Washington Hts., N.Y.
    G Darrell Bullock Wells Sr. Chicago, Ill.
    F Errol Daniyan Plattsburgh State Jr. Coram, N.Y.
    C Juan Paulino Wells Sr. Bronx, N.Y.
    C Brian Beckford Oneonta State Sr. Brooklyn, N.Y.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 16, 2010, 02:22:04 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 16, 2010, 12:40:50 PM
    The D3Hoops All Region Teams have just been released. Nazareth's Corey McAdam was named the All East Region Player of the Year.  Ithaca College forward Phil Barera was named to the All East Region First Team. Congratulations to all these outstanding players.  Here's the complete list of of award winners:

    Men's All-East Region Team
    Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools. All SIDs in the region were given the opportunity to vote.

    Player of the Year: Corey McAdam, Sr., Nazareth
    Coach of the Year: Kevin Grimmer, SUNYIT
    Rookie of the Year: Stefan Thompson, G, Hobart

    First team

    Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
    G Corey McAdam Nazareth Sr. Fairport, N.Y.
    G Diloo Brown SUNYIT Sr. Harlem, N.Y.
    F Matt Pebole Hobart So. Little Silver, N.J.
    F Phil Barera Ithaca Jr. Belmont, Mass. 
    C David Golembiowski SUNYIT Jr. Barneveld, N.Y.

    Second team

    Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
    G Chris Ruiz Plattsburgh State Jr. Washington Hts., N.Y.
    G Darrell Bullock Wells Sr. Chicago, Ill.
    F Errol Daniyan Plattsburgh State Jr. Coram, N.Y.
    C Juan Paulino Wells Sr. Bronx, N.Y.
    C Brian Beckford Oneonta State Sr. Brooklyn, N.Y.



    OK I have a few issues with the selections.  POY and COY are well deserved.  Grimmer lead SUNYIT to the Sweet 16 and McAdam is one of the all-time greats in the Empire 8.  However I think there are two issues with the team:

    1.  How did Sean Rossi not earn Rooke of the Year over Stefan Thompson? Rossi was the orchestrator for the Bombers and had the ball in his hand 75% of the time on offense for a 20 win team.  Although he had a very good supporting cast (Barera, Marcus, Cruz), he played 35+ minutes a game and handled the offense extremely well for a freshman.  Not only that but he ending up leading the NATION in assists.  Here are the stats for the two players:

    Thompson - 28 MinutesPG 15.0 Points 3.28 Assists 3.0 Rebounds 1.4 Steals (21 3's)
    Rossi         - 34 MinutesPG 11.0 Points 7.89 Assists 2.2 Rebounds 1.1 Steals (38 3's)

    I think Rossi did alot more for Ithaca than Thompson did for Hobart.  On top of that IC beat Hobart and won the ECAC tournament that Hobart lost in the semis in. I know its close but IC was a better team and Rossi ran the show for them.

    2. How did two Wells players make the top ten in the region? I admittedly did not see them play but they were spanked by SUNYIT in the NEAC finals.  They did win 21 games but ~10 of those wins are from the likes of Green Mountain, Cazenovia, etc.  You can put one player on there but two might be pushing it. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 16, 2010, 05:51:00 PM
    bomber3,

    My guess would be that the people voting for these awards probably put more emphasis on scoring rather than assists. Thompson had 420 points for the season which was a Hobart record for a freshman. He also was among the league leaders in a number of categories and was Liberty League rookie of the week on 8 occasions. Rossi was outstanding as well winning E8 rookie of the week 7 different times and probably could just as easily won the award. The SID's are the ones voting for these awards and sometimes for whatever reason a school's SID may not turn in a vote. Some SID's are loyal to their conference while others may feel someone from another conference is clearly the best choice and vote accordingly.If for instance all SID's voted for a player within their conference and one conference (NEAC or SUNYAC) has more teams than another conference (E8 or LL) then it's easy to get 2 good players from one team on the All Region team. I'm not saying that's what happened in the case of the SUNYIT players because those guys were deserving of their awards and either one could have made a case for being Player of the Year instead of McAdam.  And I can't argue the fact that 2 Wells College players were chosen because I didn't see them play. But notice that no Rochester, Medaille, or NYU players are on the list. It's possible that because those teams are in leagues that comprise different regions they don't benefit by having 8 or 10 East region SID's. No St. John Fisher player as well and they had the best record of any East Region team. These awards are nice but they are not always awarded to the most deserving. You can probably make a case for a dozen or more players to have made this list that didn't. You take them for what they are and move on.    
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 16, 2010, 06:01:33 PM
    Corey McAdam of Nazareth and Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence have been chosen to play on the East team of the NABC Division III All Star Game that will take place in Salem, Virginia this Saturday at 10:30 AM.

    Their will be a live video broadcast of the game, with Pat Coleman, Joe Davis and Dave McHugh on the call from Salem. The game will precede the National Championship game which will begin at 1:00 PM.

    Here is a list of the players chosen and the team they will play on:

    West Team
    Coach: Rick Bowen, UW-River Falls
    No. Name School Ht. Hometown
    1 Kola Alade Austin College 6-2 Murphy, Texas
    3 John Hoch Carroll 5-10 Colgate, Wis.
    12 Sean Wallis Washington U. 6-3 Northbrook, Ill.
    22 Stephen Fields Virginia Wesleyan 6-2 Hampton, Va.
    23 Dustin Mitchell UW-Whitewater 6-9 Lac du Flambeau, Wis.
    34 Kyle Meyer Ohio Northern 6-5 Columbus Grove, Ohio
    44 Nate Montgomery Whitworth 6-8 Sammamish, Wash.
    52 John Mantel Calvin 6-9 Chelsea, Mich.

    To be added depending on semifinal results:

    No. Name School Ht. Hometown
    11  Clay Henson  Guilford  6-2  Glen Alpine, N.C. 
    11  Michael Strickland  Randolph-Macon  5-11  Myrtle Beach, S.C. 
    20  Matt Moses  UW-Stevens Point  6-2  Fon du Lac, Wis. 
    21 Blake Schultz Williams  6-3  Atherton, Wis. 

    East Team
    Coach: Mike Beitzel, Hanover
    No. Name School Ht. Hometown
    3 Corey McAdam Nazareth 6-1 Fairport, N.Y.
    11 Josh Sharlow St. Lawrence 5-9 Norwood, N.Y.
    12 Darnell Braswell DeSales 6-1 Allentown, Pa.
    21 Richard Jean-Baptiste Brooklyn 6-4 Queens, N.Y.
    32 Adam Choice Colby 6-5 Newport, R.I.
    33 Terrell Hollins Brandeis 6-4 Springfield, Mass.
    35 Abdoulaye Ouedraogo William Paterson 6-8 Newark, N.J.
    40 Kevin Misevicius Cabrini 6-6 Allentown, Pa.

    To be added depending on semifinal results:

    No. Name School Ht. Hometown
    2 Tim Lawrence Randolph-Macon 6-1 Verona, N.J.
    15 Tyler Sanborn Guilford 6-9 Elkin, N.C.
    25 Evan Sweeney UW-Stevens Point 6-2 Appleton, Wis.
    44 Joe Geoghegan Williams 6-8 Cape Elizabeth, Maine
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2010, 08:38:54 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 16, 2010, 05:51:00 PM
    bomber3,

    My guess would be that the people voting for these awards probably put more emphasis on scoring rather than assists. Thompson had 420 points for the season which was a Hobart record for a freshman. He also was among the league leaders in a number of categories and was Liberty League rookie of the week on 8 occasions. Rossi was outstanding as well winning E8 rookie of the week 7 different times and probably could just as easily won the award. The SID's are the ones voting for these awards and sometimes for whatever reason a school's SID may not turn in a vote. Some SID's are loyal to their conference while others may feel someone from another conference is clearly the best choice and vote accordingly.If for instance all SID's voted for a player within their conference and one conference (NEAC or SUNYAC) has more teams than another conference (E8 or LL) then it's easy to get 2 good players from one team on the All Region team.

    We made a change this year to help eliminate that possibility -- not every SID was given a ballot. At the time of nominations we asked SIDs if they were interested in voting, and we gave ballots out per conference at a ratio of one for every four schools in the sport. That way we didn't end up with proportional misrepresentation if the SUNYAC were more effective at turning out the vote than the LL, etc.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 16, 2010, 10:36:55 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2010, 08:38:54 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 16, 2010, 05:51:00 PM
    bomber3,

    My guess would be that the people voting for these awards probably put more emphasis on scoring rather than assists. Thompson had 420 points for the season which was a Hobart record for a freshman. He also was among the league leaders in a number of categories and was Liberty League rookie of the week on 8 occasions. Rossi was outstanding as well winning E8 rookie of the week 7 different times and probably could just as easily won the award. The SID's are the ones voting for these awards and sometimes for whatever reason a school's SID may not turn in a vote. Some SID's are loyal to their conference while others may feel someone from another conference is clearly the best choice and vote accordingly.If for instance all SID's voted for a player within their conference and one conference (NEAC or SUNYAC) has more teams than another conference (E8 or LL) then it's easy to get 2 good players from one team on the All Region team.

    We made a change this year to help eliminate that possibility -- not every SID was given a ballot. At the time of nominations we asked SIDs if they were interested in voting, and we gave ballots out per conference at a ratio of one for every four schools in the sport. That way we didn't end up with proportional misrepresentation if the SUNYAC were more effective at turning out the vote than the LL, etc.

    Pat,
    Change is good. Does that mean that the 8 team Liberty League and Empire 8 (9 teams) each got 2 ballots? And the 10 team NEAC and SUNYAC also each got 2 ballots since a league would need 12 teams to get 3 ballots?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2010, 11:40:16 PM
    Yes, except that the NEAC women got a third ballot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 17, 2010, 09:23:27 AM
    OK thanks for the clarification.  It's not a glaring omission in my mind choosing Thompson over Rossi but I think Rossi got a raw deal.  Yes, no U of R, NYU, St. Lawrence, Fisher or Medaille players is another issue.  Fisher didn't have a standout player so I can see why though.  Someone said it on the LL board but Josh Sharlow from St. Lawrence should have been on second team.  Had a very solid career and St. Lawrence made NCAA's.

    Heres the breakdown of awards by conference (includes POY/COY/ROY so 13 awards in total):

    NEAC: 5
    SUNYAC: 3
    E8:3
    LL: 2
    Other: 0

    Now I won't bash the NEAC because SUNYIT made the sweet 16, but taking 5 of the 13 total awards in the region might be a little much...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on March 17, 2010, 05:29:01 PM
    I can't speak for Bullock from Wells, he didn't stand out to me in the only game I saw them play this season, but Paulino is a beast.

    I believe he was two-time player of the year when he was at Finger Lakes CC, where he attended before Wells. He can rebound, score, pass the ball and move up and down the court with ease.

    His numbers this season also were pretty decent -- and, yes, I know Wells plays in the NEAC and has no schedule to speak of -- 17.1 points per game, 16.5 rebounds per game, 2.8 assists per game and 2.6 blocks per game, while shooting 69.9 percent from the field, in 29.9 minutes per game. Those are pretty impressive.

    He wasn't the leading scorer on the team, Bullock was tops with 19 ppg. Bullock also averaged 3.9 assists in 32.9 minutes per game. His numbers don't stand out nearly as much as Paulino's.

    I know numbers don't tell the whole story, but from seeing Paulino play, you could tell how good he was. He would have been dominant no matter what league he played in, and might have even scored more with a better coach. The Wells coach is a complete joke and has only done OK there because the school is desperate to have males there and have relaxed admissions standards to accomodate that -- to the benefit of the hoops team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 18, 2010, 02:57:06 AM
    The National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC) named their All-District and All-American teams today:

    Here is the East Region All-District Teams:
    *Denotes Player of the Year

    First Team                                 Second Team
    *Corey McAdam, Nazareth              Keith Jensen, NYU
    Josh Sharlow, St. Lawrence               Diloo Brown, SUNYIT
    Brian Beckford, Oneonta                    Phil Barera, Ithaca
    Keith Hack, Medaille                          Matt Pebole, Hobart
    Chris Ruiz, Plattsburg State                Matt Newman, St. John Fisher
    Dave Golembiowski, SUNYIT
    Coach of the Year: Kevin Grimmer – SUNYIT

    http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nabc/genrel/auto_pdf/2010D3All-America.pdf

    http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nabc/genrel/auto_pdf/2010D3All-District.pdf

    All-Americans

    1st Team
    Tyler Sanborn, Guilford, 6-9, Senior, Center, Elkin, N.C.
    Blake Schultz, Williams, 6-3, Senior, Guard/Forward, Atherton, Calif.
    Ian Franks, Wooster, 6-4, Junior, Guard, Greenwich, Ohio
    Dustin Mitchell, UW-Whitewater, 6-9, Senior, Forward/Center, Lac Du Flambeau, Wis.
    Marcel Esonwune, York (NY), 6-6, Junior, Forward/Center, Lagos, Nigeria
    Darnell Braswell, DeSales, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Allentown, Pa.
    Corey McAdam, Nazareth, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Fairport, N.Y.
    Steve Djurickovic, Carthage, 6-3, Junior, Guard, Pleasant Prairie, Wis.

    2nd Team
    Trey Drake, North Carolina Wesleyan, 5-8, Senior, Guard, Emporia, Va.
    Noel Hollingsworth, MIT, 6-9, Sophomore, Forward, Salt Lake City, Utah
    Kyle Meyer, Ohio Northern, 6-5, Senior, Forward, Columbus Grove, Ohio
    Nate Montgomery, Whitworth, 6-8, Senior, Center, Sammamish, Wash.
    Abdoulaye Ouedraogo, William Paterson, 6-8, Senior, Forward, Newark, N.J.
    James McNally, Franklin & Marshall, 6-6, Junior, Forward, Bridgewater, N.J.
    Josh Sharlow, St. Lawrence, 5-9, Senior, Guard, Norwood, N.Y.
    John Hoch, Carroll, 5-10, Senior, Guard, Colgate, Wis.

    3rd Team
    Greg Hernandez, Maryville, 6-6, Senior, Center, Miami, Fla.
    Adam Choice, Colby, 6-5, Senior, Forward, Newport, R.I.
    Michael McClary, Olivet, 6-5, Junior, Center, Bellaire, Mich.
    Tyler Nicolai, St. Thomas, 5-11, Junior, Guard, Minnetonka, Minn.
    Richard Jean-Baptiste, Brooklyn, 6-4, Senior, Forward, Queens, N.Y.
    Nick Brady, York (PA), 6-2, Senior, Guard, Hanover, Pa.
    Brian Beckford, Oneonta, 6-9, Senior, Forward, Brooklyn, N.Y.
    Sean Wallis, Washington University (St. Louis), 6-2, Graduate, Guard, Northbrook, Ill.

    NABC selects All-Americans differently than D3hoops.  They pick one player from each region for each All-America team.  So the best player in each region is 1st team, 2nd best is 2nd team, and 3rd best is 3rd team.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 18, 2010, 09:28:58 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on March 17, 2010, 05:29:01 PM
    I can't speak for Bullock from Wells, he didn't stand out to me in the only game I saw them play this season, but Paulino is a beast.

    I believe he was two-time player of the year when he was at Finger Lakes CC, where he attended before Wells. He can rebound, score, pass the ball and move up and down the court with ease.

    His numbers this season also were pretty decent -- and, yes, I know Wells plays in the NEAC and has no schedule to speak of -- 17.1 points per game, 16.5 rebounds per game, 2.8 assists per game and 2.6 blocks per game, while shooting 69.9 percent from the field, in 29.9 minutes per game. Those are pretty impressive.

    He wasn't the leading scorer on the team, Bullock was tops with 19 ppg. Bullock also averaged 3.9 assists in 32.9 minutes per game. His numbers don't stand out nearly as much as Paulino's.

    I know numbers don't tell the whole story, but from seeing Paulino play, you could tell how good he was. He would have been dominant no matter what league he played in, and might have even scored more with a better coach. The Wells coach is a complete joke and has only done OK there because the school is desperate to have males there and have relaxed admissions standards to accomodate that -- to the benefit of the hoops team.

    I never looked at the stats -- averaging 17 points and 16 rebounds is impressive.  But pick one or the other -- they weren't good enough to get two on the team, SUNYIT was though.

    And the NABC (Coaches who see every game, not SIDs who see stats) awards are more realistic and reasonable.  Josh Sharlow, who by Magic's post would was deemed second best player (or most valuable) in the region by the coaches, was omitted from the D3 hoops all-region team.  I might put Brown from SUNYIT on first team but that might be nitpicking. Congrats to all the winners...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 20, 2010, 12:15:12 PM
    East squad wins the All-Star game 109-107 in overtime. Clay Henson of Guilford led the West Squad with 35 points and was the game's leading scorer. Abdoulaye Oeudraogo from William Paterson led the East Squad with 18 points. Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence had a great all-around game, as he made a nice feed to Darnell Braswell for an open layup with 2 seconds left in the game. Braswell was hammered and missed the lay-in but went to the line and made the 2 foul shots that accounted for the winning points. Sharlow scored 10 points, had 5 assists, 4 steals and 2 blocks. Hensen was unconscious as he drained three pointer after three pointer from all over the court. I don't know if they had an MVP for the game but he was clearly it.

    Corey McAdam of Nazareth also played well as he scored 8 points for the East Squad, but it seemed to me that the group of players that Corey played with didn't share the ball as well as the group of players that Josh played with. The only time that both Corey and Josh were on the court together was in the overtime period. Good to see both East Region players do well. Both players also had an in game interview with Pat Coleman when they were on the bench between shifts. Pat did get Corey to admit how much he disliked Fisher. ;D 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 21, 2010, 02:09:15 AM
    D3Hoops announced this year's All American Teams prior to Saturday's National Championship Game.

    Corey McAdam from Nazareth was named to the second team. He was the only player from the East region who was honored. I was surprised that David Golembiowski of SUNYIT was not on the list anywhere. The Preseason All American list had Golembiowski on the 4th team and McAdam on the list of honorable mention players. After the year Golembiowski and SUNYIT had I fail to see why he was omitted from the post season all american awards.

    No surprise for the Player of the Year honors as junior guard Steve Djurickovic of Carthage College won that award. Good chance he'll win it next year as well.


    Here is the link to see the complete list:

    http://www.d3hoops.com/all-american/menallam10.htm
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 22, 2010, 11:02:13 PM
    DIII News publication has announced their All American teams today.

    Tyler Sanborn of Guilford was named as the Player of the Year

    Corey McAdam of Nazareth was named to the 4th team

    David Golembiowski of SUNYIT was named to the 4th team

    Honorable Mention
    Chris Ruiz of Plattsburgh State
    Brian Beckford Oneonta State
    Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence
    Keith Hack Medaille

    Here is a link for the complete list:

    http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on March 22, 2010, 11:08:40 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 20, 2010, 12:15:12 PM
    Corey McAdam of Nazareth also played well as he scored 8 points for the East Both players also had an in game interview with Pat Coleman when they were on the bench between shifts. Pat did get Corey to admit how much he disliked Fisher. ;D 

    This didn't take a lot of prodding. :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 23, 2010, 07:19:43 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 22, 2010, 11:02:13 PM
    DIII News publication has announced their All American teams today.

    Tyler Sanborn of Guilford was named as the Player of the Year

    Corey McAdam of Nazareth was named to the 4th team

    David Golembiowski of SUNYIT was named to the 4th team

    Honorable Mention
    Chris Ruiz of Plattsburgh State
    Brian Beckford Oneonta State
    Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence
    Keith Hack Medaille

    Here is a link for the complete list:

    http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf


    No Rossi on the freshman list is a minor surprise. Kid leads the nation in APG, but the A/TO ratio was a bit high and the scoring average probably a bit low. So understandable.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 24, 2010, 03:36:19 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 23, 2010, 07:19:43 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 22, 2010, 11:02:13 PM
    DIII News publication has announced their All American teams today.

    Tyler Sanborn of Guilford was named as the Player of the Year

    Corey McAdam of Nazareth was named to the 4th team

    David Golembiowski of SUNYIT was named to the 4th team

    Honorable Mention
    Chris Ruiz of Plattsburgh State
    Brian Beckford Oneonta State
    Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence
    Keith Hack Medaille

    Here is a link for the complete list:

    http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf


    No Rossi on the freshman list is a minor surprise. Kid leads the nation in APG, but the A/TO ratio was a bit high and the scoring average probably a bit low. So understandable.

    No Stefan Thompson from Hobart on the freshman team either.  Both Rossi and Thompson should have made their list. Nothing this publication does surprises me though. Last year they omitted numerous D3Hoops All Americans from their 5 All American teams. For 2 consectutive years now they have the D3Hoops Player of the Year (Jimmy Bartolotta and Steve Djurickovic) on their 2nd team. They call themselves the leading authority on small college basketball since 1991, but apparently from all reports they are the only ones who think that is true. A legend in their own mind. ;D   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 25, 2010, 08:25:00 AM
    I have to say, I am not a big Rossi fan...His assists were basically pass to the perimeter and they take the 3... they take so many of course his number of assists are high... No real bullets passed inside or needle threaders. Also Ithaca has always been generous with assist counts.... You know how I am prejudiced toward REAL POINT GUARD play.... run the team, control the team... Rossi not really that type YET.. he could be, but I don't think he belongs on the list. Now IC guys don't get upset, just my opinion and remember WHAT DO I KNOW ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 25, 2010, 11:39:20 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on March 25, 2010, 08:25:00 AM
    Also Ithaca has always been generous with assist counts.

    Have you got a source to back this up? Cause my thought process is that the 7.76 assists he averaged in road/neutral site games--where, from what I gather, our SID's aren't going-- compared to the 8.01 he averaged in home games means this may go into the "Sean Burton shot more than Corey McAdam did" junk pile.

    I'm sick of people making stuff up and not taking time to check facts. If you're going to essentially say that IC padded Rossi's assist numbers, have the guts to say where you're getting the information from, or use stats to back it up. Because the home/road discrepancy isn't large enough to warrant comments like that

    Also, just because he's not threading the needle inside doesn't mean he's not "running the team". He's still the one controlling the pace
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 25, 2010, 02:32:58 PM
    Easy, Bomber 90210 or something like that, you are too passionate about this..... If I offended, you or a friend or relative let me apologize....... This is totally my perception based on the few games maybe 6 or 7, I saw this year involving IC.  The point was him not being picked as ALL Freshman... He is not a take charge point guard who clearly runs the show....... that is a fact. He is only a Freshman and I am sure he will progress in that area.  Let me rephrase the generous with assists point. The assists are for the most part decided by event staff (usually students) assigned at the scorers table. Not exactly experts. Some schools do it better than others MY OPINION ONLY. Obviously no one is going to go through every assist the guy had this year, and a better argument you could have made was had so many how can you question his assists.....I would bow to that logic, but the fact that IC had so many 3's, I can't really help but question whether he has the ability to run the team. Remember some people don't feel the need for, as I call it, a pure point guard. Some coaches prefer 5 interchangeable clones on the court...that has some upside too..........SO as I originally said this isn't a knock on the kid, or IC, as anyone who has been part of this site for awhile knows, I never knock a player... just agreeing with the picks...You are correct about McAdams as well.   he has many assists and many t/o's.. but he can run a team. Again Rossi may do so as he matures...   Relax and root those Bombers on......... ;)       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 25, 2010, 03:02:35 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on March 25, 2010, 02:32:58 PM
    Easy, Bomber 90210 or something like that, you are too passionate about this..... If I offended, you or a friend or relative let me apologize....... This is totally my perception based on the few games maybe 6 or 7, I saw this year involving IC.  The point was him not being picked as ALL Freshman... He is not a take charge point guard who clearly runs the show....... that is a fact. He is only a Freshman and I am sure he will progress in that area.  Let me rephrase the generous with assists point. The assists are for the most part decided by event staff (usually students) assigned at the scorers table. Not exactly experts. Some schools do it better than others MY OPINION ONLY. Obviously no one is going to go through every assist the guy had this year, and a better argument you could have made was had so many how can you question his assists.....I would bow to that logic, but the fact that IC had so many 3's, I can't really help but question whether he has the ability to run the team. Remember some people don't feel the need for, as I call it, a pure point guard. Some coaches prefer 5 interchangeable clones on the court...that has some upside too..........SO as I originally said this isn't a knock on the kid, or IC, as anyone who has been part of this site for awhile knows, I never knock a player... just agreeing with the picks...You are correct about McAdams as well.   he has many assists and many t/o's.. but he can run a team. Again Rossi may do so as he matures...   Relax and root those Bombers on......... ;)      

    Right, I get that, but as I showed, his road assists are almost as high as his home assists, so if the "event staff"--are being generous, it's not just IC's. For example, he had 17 against Roanoke at Case Western, 12 at Hobart, 10 at Hartwick.

    To me, the problem wasn't that you were implying that the people sometimes struggle to identify an assist (which admittedly, can be tough), but that Ithaca was padding his stats. You used the word "Generous" not a phrase like "Ithaca people have told me that they're not always sure who to award an assist to. To imply that somehow Ithaca's being disingenuous regarding their record keeping is a whole different ball of wax

    I'm not going to debate the kind of assists he had, because it's a pointless endeavor. If you don't think that, hey, that's ok. We can agree to disagree.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on March 25, 2010, 03:11:14 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 24, 2010, 03:36:19 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 23, 2010, 07:19:43 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 22, 2010, 11:02:13 PM
    DIII News publication has announced their All American teams today.

    Tyler Sanborn of Guilford was named as the Player of the Year

    Corey McAdam of Nazareth was named to the 4th team

    David Golembiowski of SUNYIT was named to the 4th team

    Honorable Mention
    Chris Ruiz of Plattsburgh State
    Brian Beckford Oneonta State
    Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence
    Keith Hack Medaille

    Here is a link for the complete list:

    http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf


    No Rossi on the freshman list is a minor surprise. Kid leads the nation in APG, but the A/TO ratio was a bit high and the scoring average probably a bit low. So understandable.

    No Stefan Thompson from Hobart on the freshman team either.  Both Rossi and Thompson should have made their list. Nothing this publication does surprises me though. Last year they omitted numerous D3Hoops All Americans from their 5 All American teams. For 2 consectutive years now they have the D3Hoops Player of the Year (Jimmy Bartolotta and Steve Djurickovic) on their 2nd team. They call themselves the leading authority on small college basketball since 1991, but apparently from all reports they are the only ones who think that is true. A legend in their own mind. ;D   

    No DiBartomwatchamacallit from UR either.  Rookie of the Year in the UAA
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 26, 2010, 02:34:52 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on March 25, 2010, 03:11:14 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 24, 2010, 03:36:19 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 23, 2010, 07:19:43 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 22, 2010, 11:02:13 PM
    DIII News publication has announced their All American teams today.

    Tyler Sanborn of Guilford was named as the Player of the Year

    Corey McAdam of Nazareth was named to the 4th team

    David Golembiowski of SUNYIT was named to the 4th team

    Honorable Mention
    Chris Ruiz of Plattsburgh State
    Brian Beckford Oneonta State
    Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence
    Keith Hack Medaille

    Here is a link for the complete list:

    http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf


    No Rossi on the freshman list is a minor surprise. Kid leads the nation in APG, but the A/TO ratio was a bit high and the scoring average probably a bit low. So understandable.

    No Stefan Thompson from Hobart on the freshman team either.  Both Rossi and Thompson should have made their list. Nothing this publication does surprises me though. Last year they omitted numerous D3Hoops All Americans from their 5 All American teams. For 2 consectutive years now they have the D3Hoops Player of the Year (Jimmy Bartolotta and Steve Djurickovic) on their 2nd team. They call themselves the leading authority on small college basketball since 1991, but apparently from all reports they are the only ones who think that is true. A legend in their own mind. ;D   

    No DiBartomwatchamacallit from UR either.  Rookie of the Year in the UAA

    Ethelred,
    Actually John DiBartolomeo of UR did make their All-Freshman Team. here's the list from their press release:

    All-Freshman Team
    Scott Rogers Trine
    Shasha Brown Wesleyan
    Dane Givner Heidelberg
    Deshun McCoy Occidental
    John DiBartolomeo Rochester
    Harrison George H-Sydney
    Blair Rozenblad Thiel
    Derek Raridon North Central
    Paul Reynolds Wesley
    Isaiah Johnson NJ City

    And here's the link to that press release:

    http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 26, 2010, 03:45:52 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on March 25, 2010, 08:25:00 AM
    I have to say, I am not a big Rossi fan...His assists were basically pass to the perimeter and they take the 3... they take so many of course his number of assists are high... No real bullets passed inside or needle threaders. Also Ithaca has always been generous with assist counts.... You know how I am prejudiced toward REAL POINT GUARD play.... run the team, control the team... Rossi not really that type YET.. he could be, but I don't think he belongs on the list. Now IC guys don't get upset, just my opinion and remember WHAT DO I KNOW ;)  

    FROMAFAR,
    I have to disagree with you on that. Both Rossi and and Stefan Thompson from Hobart should have made that All-Freshman team. In Rossi's case it's not just his D3 leading assist total that he put up but also scoring in double figures as well (11.0 ppg) that should have put him on that team. He had 8 double-doubles and was 1 assist shy of having 3 more. In Thompson's case his 15 ppg scoring average was just 1 facet of his all-around play. I could go into specifics but take my word for it, there are at least 4 guys on that All Freshman team that didn't have numbers as good as Rossi or Thompson and the teams they play for didn't have seasons as good as Ithaca or Hobart.  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on March 26, 2010, 08:03:37 AM
    Quote from: magicman on March 26, 2010, 02:34:52 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on March 25, 2010, 03:11:14 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 24, 2010, 03:36:19 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 23, 2010, 07:19:43 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 22, 2010, 11:02:13 PM
    DIII News publication has announced their All American teams today.

    Tyler Sanborn of Guilford was named as the Player of the Year

    Corey McAdam of Nazareth was named to the 4th team

    David Golembiowski of SUNYIT was named to the 4th team

    Honorable Mention
    Chris Ruiz of Plattsburgh State
    Brian Beckford Oneonta State
    Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence
    Keith Hack Medaille

    Here is a link for the complete list:

    http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf


    No Rossi on the freshman list is a minor surprise. Kid leads the nation in APG, but the A/TO ratio was a bit high and the scoring average probably a bit low. So understandable.

    No Stefan Thompson from Hobart on the freshman team either.  Both Rossi and Thompson should have made their list. Nothing this publication does surprises me though. Last year they omitted numerous D3Hoops All Americans from their 5 All American teams. For 2 consectutive years now they have the D3Hoops Player of the Year (Jimmy Bartolotta and Steve Djurickovic) on their 2nd team. They call themselves the leading authority on small college basketball since 1991, but apparently from all reports they are the only ones who think that is true. A legend in their own mind. ;D   

    No DiBartomwatchamacallit from UR either.  Rookie of the Year in the UAA

    Ethelred,
    Actually John DiBartolomeo of UR did make their All-Freshman Team. here's the list from their press release:

    All-Freshman Team
    Scott Rogers Trine
    Shasha Brown Wesleyan
    Dane Givner Heidelberg
    Deshun McCoy Occidental
    John DiBartolomeo Rochester
    Harrison George H-Sydney
    Blair Rozenblad Thiel
    Derek Raridon North Central
    Paul Reynolds Wesley
    Isaiah Johnson NJ City

    And here's the link to that press release:

    http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf

    See this is what happens when you multi-task at a certain age.  I saw a while ago that he made the all freshman team.  I guess I was flashing on no one from UR getting any mention on any of the DIII all East teams.  (Now watch me be wrong about that....)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 26, 2010, 08:10:26 AM
    I hear you MAGIC, and you may have a point with Thompson.. I have seen Rossi, and I just don't think it's that big of a miss. Bomber is right we can agree to disagree and really not worthy of debate. However I just want to clear up my point a little. I don't believe those making the decisions don't know who to give an assist to.. I just think it's not that important to them and they don't always know what an assist is...But as I also said, in a round about way...you can't look at all of the assists and decipher them... The big picture is, Rossi was a talented Freshman, and will probably be a decent player through his career, and Bomber is right this is not worth the debate.......

    Thanks for the assist ;D Magic..........  :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 26, 2010, 01:05:53 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on March 26, 2010, 08:10:26 AM
    I hear you MAGIC, and you may have a point with Thompson.. I have seen Rossi, and I just don't think it's that big of a miss. Bomber is right we can agree to disagree and really not worthy of debate. However I just want to clear up my point a little. I don't believe those making the decisions don't know who to give an assist to.. I just think it's not that important to them and they don't always know what an assist is...But as I also said, in a round about way...you can't look at all of the assists and decipher them... The big picture is, Rossi was a talented Freshman, and will probably be a decent player through his career, and Bomber is right this is not worth the debate.......

    Thanks for the assist ;D Magic..........  :)

    Fromafar -- he's a decent player already!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 26, 2010, 02:00:41 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on March 26, 2010, 08:10:26 AM
    I don't believe those making the decisions don't know who to give an assist to.. I just think it's not that important to them and they don't always know what an assist is...

    Meh, if that's your logic for IC, why should we believe anyone's assist totals?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 29, 2010, 08:51:28 AM
    Bomber 3, correct he is a decent player, and probably will continue to be, Bomber 79.... I believe the assist and turn over statistic are the are the most subjective statistic of all... I have seen players get a turn over after a perfect pass, and it goes off the players hands and the passer is given the turn over. I have seen passes given on fast breaks, wher the receiver of the pass dribbles once or twice no assist... OR the receiver dribbles 4 or 5 times and the passer IS given an assist.  I actually don't know the specific rule ( not a surprise) but I thought two dribbles or less and it is an assist. This is why I think it's subjective... I just don't think those keeping those stats have a set rule. BUT GUYS ALL OF THIS BEING SAID, I AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT IT IS THE SAME ALL OVER SO WE USUALLY GET A CONSISTANCY...I JUST THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE E-8 SCHOOLS YOU WILL NOTICE HOME OR VISITOR, ASSIST SEEM HIGHER IN SOME PLACES AND LOWER IN OTHERS.

    AGAIN, as bomber 79... says too much time ona muet issue... It must be the off season. ;)       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on March 29, 2010, 09:03:01 AM
    There's no rule regarding number of dribbles when it comes to assists. From the statistical manual.

    A player is credited with an assist when the player makes, in
    the judgment of the statistician, the principal pass contributing
    directly to a field goal (or an awarded score of two or three
    points). Only one assist is to be credited on any field goal and
    only when the pass was a major part of the play. The same player
    cannot be credited with an assist and a field goal made on
    the same possession.

    Such a pass should be either (a) a pass that finds a player free
    after he or she has maneuvered without the ball for a positional
    advantage, or (b) a pass that gives the receiving player a positional
    advantage he or she otherwise would not have had.

    Philosophy. An assist should be more than a routine pass
    that just happens to be followed by a field goal. It should be a
    conscious effort to find the open player or to help a player work
    free. There should not be a limit on the number of dribbles by
    the receiver. It is not even necessary that the assist be given
    on the last pass. There is no restraint on the distance or type of
    shot made, for these are not the crucial factors in determining
    whether an assist should be credited.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 29, 2010, 09:15:24 AM
    Thanks Pat, so it is basically subjective...with guidelines.. and that would be a good item for schools to go over before the season with their game staffs.
    I guess we can put this one to rest.......

    Good drill though....... That's what makes this site good... we can all learn... ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 29, 2010, 01:26:30 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 29, 2010, 09:03:01 AM
    There's no rule regarding number of dribbles when it comes to assists. From the statistical manual.

    A player is credited with an assist when the player makes, in
    the judgment of the statistician, the principal pass contributing
    directly to a field goal (or an awarded score of two or three
    points). Only one assist is to be credited on any field goal and
    only when the pass was a major part of the play. The same player
    cannot be credited with an assist and a field goal made on
    the same possession.

    Such a pass should be either (a) a pass that finds a player free
    after he or she has maneuvered without the ball for a positional
    advantage, or (b) a pass that gives the receiving player a positional
    advantage he or she otherwise would not have had.

    Philosophy. An assist should be more than a routine pass
    that just happens to be followed by a field goal. It should be a
    conscious effort to find the open player or to help a player work
    free. There should not be a limit on the number of dribbles by
    the receiver. It is not even necessary that the assist be given
    on the last pass. There is no restraint on the distance or type of
    shot made, for these are not the crucial factors in determining
    whether an assist should be credited.

    Wow I didn't realize an assist was that subjective.  If statisticians truly followed that definition there would be assists on less than 25% of field goals in my opinion  -- at any level.  Simply making a pass to a 3 point shooter would not qualify as an assist by that definition. McAdam, Rossi, Burton, etc. would all average between 4-5 assists if the true letter of the law is followed.  I like it better the way the statisticians do it -- although it cheapens an assist, it makes things more interesting!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 29, 2010, 01:41:09 PM
    Bomber 3.. I was surprised as well, but it really makes sense the way it is  written...That's why there is really no continuity to assists from venue to venue and your right those teams drilling 3's at a steady rate, while it's important to get them the ball, most times it is not really an assist.. I guess threading the needle and passes inside really tell the tale of true assists.  I don't want to lessen Rossi's or McAdams role however, since they do whats necessary to get some points, whether it is an assist or just a good judgement on a pass.  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on April 01, 2010, 03:14:00 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on March 29, 2010, 01:41:09 PM
    Bomber 3.. I was surprised as well, but it really makes sense the way it is  written...That's why there is really no continuity to assists from venue to venue and your right those teams drilling 3's at a steady rate, while it's important to get them the ball, most times it is not really an assist.. I guess threading the needle and passes inside really tell the tale of true assists.  I don't want to lessen Rossi's or McAdams role however, since they do whats necessary to get some points, whether it is an assist or just a good judgement on a pass.  ;)

    I'd like to see a "missed assists" stat. Somebody makes a pass that would have been an assist if the shot had been made. Sort of like dropped passes in football. Or maybe they go the hockey route and call it "scoring opportunities"

    If you think about it, Rossi setting up guys on the outside vs. the inside works against his numbers, since those are lower percentage shots than something thrown in to a guy two feet from the hoop. An easier pass? Sure. But, if you're a PG on a perimeter shooting team, your numbers may decrease through no fault of your own.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on April 02, 2010, 09:25:47 AM
    Bomber 79 etc...... That is a very interesting point......The degree of difficulty on the shot after a pass.???............. And I thought the assists were subjective... Can you imagine the chaos and inconsistancy if that were part of the criteria......... A stat on missed easy shots after a pass. This is great stuff......... I guess the assist criteria has been around for a long time and as they say, it is what it is......... I can tell you there were a few point guards in the E - 8 who would love to see how many of their good passes in tight quarters got to the team-mate and they blew the layup.......... Actually when they don't hold onto the pass quite often the turn over goes to the passer...That is really not fair............ These are all the nuances that make this a great game.......BUT ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on April 02, 2010, 09:30:15 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on April 01, 2010, 03:14:00 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on March 29, 2010, 01:41:09 PM
    Bomber 3.. I was surprised as well, but it really makes sense the way it is  written...That's why there is really no continuity to assists from venue to venue and your right those teams drilling 3's at a steady rate, while it's important to get them the ball, most times it is not really an assist.. I guess threading the needle and passes inside really tell the tale of true assists.  I don't want to lessen Rossi's or McAdams role however, since they do whats necessary to get some points, whether it is an assist or just a good judgement on a pass.  ;)

    I'd like to see a "missed assists" stat. Somebody makes a pass that would have been an assist if the shot had been made. Sort of like dropped passes in football. Or maybe they go the hockey route and call it "scoring opportunities"

    If you think about it, Rossi setting up guys on the outside vs. the inside works against his numbers, since those are lower percentage shots than something thrown in to a guy two feet from the hoop. An easier pass? Sure. But, if you're a PG on a perimeter shooting team, your numbers may decrease through no fault of your own.

    I'll disagree with you on that because he is making those passes with a much higher frequency.  IC puts up 25-30 3's a game so there is plenty of opportunity to get assists.  Although they don't shoot a terrible high percentage he is making more passes to 3-point shooters than comparable players passing to the inside. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on April 05, 2010, 02:23:33 PM
    Bomber 3 exactly correct.........  but we are trying to re-invent the wheel here......... The coaches know ( most) what's going on out there......... ;) Someone once said stats are like a crutch... they just hold up........maybe he had a point.......... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on April 05, 2010, 04:41:17 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on April 05, 2010, 02:23:33 PM
    Bomber 3 exactly correct.........  but we are trying to re-invent the wheel here......... The coaches know ( most) what's going on out there......... ;) Someone once said stats are like a crutch... they just hold up........maybe he had a point.......... ;)
    Very true.  Speaking of coaches I see Allegheny College is in search of a new coaching staff.  Current IC assistant Nevada Smtih coached there prior to his arrival at IC -- I have no knowledge of anything but my bet is he somehow winds back up there. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on April 06, 2010, 09:05:05 AM
    Bomber 3, I think you should get in touch with Corey McAdam, and the two of you should put in for the Allegheny job as a tandem........... I know he wants to coach, and you seem to be one of the brighter guys out there that have played the game at this level, with success....... seriously. These D-3 schools would do well to give new blood a chance........ unless they have some alumni who want the job, and fit you and McAdams profiles.........However you may want no part of it........I'm just getting the idea you have a passion, which is what you need to get into that business........ ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on April 06, 2010, 12:28:00 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on April 06, 2010, 09:05:05 AM
    Bomber 3, I think you should get in touch with Corey McAdam, and the two of you should put in for the Allegheny job as a tandem........... I know he wants to coach, and you seem to be one of the brighter guys out there that have played the game at this level, with success....... seriously. These D-3 schools would do well to give new blood a chance........ unless they have some alumni who want the job, and fit you and McAdams profiles.........However you may want no part of it........I'm just getting the idea you have a passion, which is what you need to get into that business........ ;) 

    Haha now thats a noble idea.  Although Allegheny's nightlife is pretty tough to turn down I will pass for now --ask again in five years!  I do appreciate the kind words though.  And you seem to have a certain passion yourself and although I'm not sure what type of background you have, maybe you could give it a shot! Although I'm not sure you could fathom possibly playing against your Tigers...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on April 06, 2010, 02:11:23 PM
    Actually I did say I would get back on that...... I didn't play College Basketball, I did a lot of intra-mural type stuff... BIG FISH in small sea..  I am in my 60's and have coached basketball for many years... all kids levels... loved coaching them pre-high school... at that point they don't think they are all Magic Johnsons or Michael Jordans...They actually listen..Funny how you could have a group with less talent than your opponents, but if they knew the fundamentals and just ran BASIC sets, and played defense ALL THE TIME... you would be successful. I think that's why I have this thing about point guards.... Good ones usually control the game and ensure the guys on the court do what you, as a coach, wants..... I am looking forward to next year, as the Tigers finished strong and most are back.... I'll give my pre-season thoughts next October. I know you guys can hardly wait. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on April 07, 2010, 01:36:55 PM
    Hey the UR job is open.  You guys should both take a run at that....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on April 07, 2010, 02:27:22 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on April 05, 2010, 04:41:17 PM

    Very true.  Speaking of coaches I see Allegheny College is in search of a new coaching staff.  Current IC assistant Nevada Smtih coached there prior to his arrival at IC -- I have no knowledge of anything but my bet is he somehow winds back up there. 

    Actually, that job has now been filled.

    Jim Driggs, played at Hamilton and actually assisted at U of R (among other places), was their choice.

    Here's the link to the story in the local paper:

    http://meadvilletribune.com/sports/x1687701195/Gators-tab-Driggs-as-new-mens-basketball-coach
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on April 07, 2010, 02:38:50 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on April 07, 2010, 02:27:22 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on April 05, 2010, 04:41:17 PM

    Very true.  Speaking of coaches I see Allegheny College is in search of a new coaching staff.  Current IC assistant Nevada Smtih coached there prior to his arrival at IC -- I have no knowledge of anything but my bet is he somehow winds back up there. 

    Actually, that job has now been filled.

    Jim Driggs, played at Hamilton and actually assisted at U of R (among other places), was their choice.

    Here's the link to the story in the local paper:

    http://meadvilletribune.com/sports/x1687701195/Gators-tab-Driggs-as-new-mens-basketball-coach

    Good for Driggs.  Nice guy
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on April 08, 2010, 09:39:07 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on April 07, 2010, 01:36:55 PM
    Hey the UR job is open.  You guys should both take a run at that....
    I didn't know Neer retired.  Not much mention of it on the boards (east region at least).  Was he the longest tenured coach in the region (34 years)?  How long has McVean been at RIT?  In the E8 I can only think of McVean being at RIT longer but I honestly have no idea. Mullins has been at IC for about 10 years and that might be the second longest (Kornaker? Hurley @ Stevens?).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on April 08, 2010, 10:44:17 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on April 08, 2010, 09:39:07 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on April 07, 2010, 01:36:55 PM
    Hey the UR job is open.  You guys should both take a run at that....
    I didn't know Neer retired.  Not much mention of it on the boards (east region at least).  Was he the longest tenured coach in the region (34 years)?  How long has McVean been at RIT?  In the E8 I can only think of McVean being at RIT longer but I honestly have no idea. Mullins has been at IC for about 10 years and that might be the second longest (Kornaker? Hurley @ Stevens?).

    Neer got the job when Boehim took the SU job.  JB was offered both and was given a deadline by SU to accept the job.  Which he obviously did.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on April 08, 2010, 10:53:07 AM
    McVean has been around since early 80's......Hurley was an assistant for 2 years under Loeffler, and a few years for Hayne before that... Head coach 2 years so maybe 6 or 7 years at Stevens........I may be wrong but isn't Lambros still with Hartwick.....  as an assistant, or at least sits on bench... He coached back in the 70's through 90's....I THINK.....  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on April 08, 2010, 11:26:35 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on April 08, 2010, 10:44:17 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on April 08, 2010, 09:39:07 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on April 07, 2010, 01:36:55 PM
    Hey the UR job is open.  You guys should both take a run at that....
    I didn't know Neer retired.  Not much mention of it on the boards (east region at least).  Was he the longest tenured coach in the region (34 years)?  How long has McVean been at RIT?  In the E8 I can only think of McVean being at RIT longer but I honestly have no idea. Mullins has been at IC for about 10 years and that might be the second longest (Kornaker? Hurley @ Stevens?).

    Neer got the job when Boehim took the SU job.  JB was offered both and was given a deadline by SU to accept the job.  Which he obviously did.

    Wow great information.  What were both schools like back then -- ie were they somewhat comparable jobs? Was there any question which position was the better job and did Boeheim consider UR is what I'm getting at.  I'm not sure how good a program UR had back then but I know SU wasn't the powerhouse they are today. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on April 08, 2010, 12:07:47 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on April 08, 2010, 11:26:35 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on April 08, 2010, 10:44:17 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on April 08, 2010, 09:39:07 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on April 07, 2010, 01:36:55 PM
    Hey the UR job is open.  You guys should both take a run at that....
    I didn't know Neer retired.  Not much mention of it on the boards (east region at least).  Was he the longest tenured coach in the region (34 years)?  How long has McVean been at RIT?  In the E8 I can only think of McVean being at RIT longer but I honestly have no idea. Mullins has been at IC for about 10 years and that might be the second longest (Kornaker? Hurley @ Stevens?).

    Neer got the job when Boehim took the SU job.  JB was offered both and was given a deadline by SU to accept the job.  Which he obviously did.

    Wow great information.  What were both schools like back then -- ie were they somewhat comparable jobs? Was there any question which position was the better job and did Boeheim consider UR is what I'm getting at.  I'm not sure how good a program UR had back then but I know SU wasn't the powerhouse they are today. 

    I just happen to have a program here in my office and it shows that prior to Neer, UR was coming off back to back losing seasons and had qualified for 4 NCAA College Division tournaments under Lyle Brown in the 60's.  Not a powerhouse but a stable program that offered a nice career for the right person.  My understanding is that JB was offered both jobs and couldn't decide until SU pressured him.  Which given it was his alma mater was understandable
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on April 08, 2010, 12:10:19 PM
    UR doesn't have much experience selecting head basketball coaches.  They have had 3 since 1931.  Louis Alexander (26 years), Lyle Brown (19) and now Neer at 34.  Since the Palestra is named after Alexander I wonder what, if anything, Neer's name will be attached to
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on April 08, 2010, 01:03:00 PM
    Yes Boeheim was an assitant to Danforth who left for Tulane... early 70's...I think Boeheim graduated in '65 or '66 from 'cuse.......The guys who catapulted "cuse were Louie Orr and a big guy named Bowie... couple of guards named Mary Headd and Cohen...   They were actually called the Cone-Head backcourt, and both guys shaved their heads... Fans would wear bald wigs OR actually shave their heads as well...........Boy am I aging myself........... 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on April 08, 2010, 01:12:03 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on April 08, 2010, 01:03:00 PM
    Yes Boeheim was an assitant to Danforth who left for Tulane... early 70's...I think Boeheim graduated in '65 or '66 from 'cuse.......The guys who catapulted "cuse were Louie Orr and a big guy named Bowie... couple of guards named Mary Headd and Cohen...   They were actually called the Cone-Head backcourt, and both guys shaved their heads... Fans would wear bald wigs OR actually shave their heads as well...........Boy am I aging myself........... 

    I played in a "Gus Macker" tournament a couple of years ago and on the next court was Rosevelt Bowie.  And ya know what?  He's STILL huge.  Louie and Bowie beating the Bernie and Ernie team from Tenn.  Back in the day when a good nickname meant something. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on April 08, 2010, 01:24:43 PM
    YEP Bernard King and Ernie Grunfeld........ Did Shays play with Bowie, or right after him... Dolph Shays kid.......... ???
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on April 08, 2010, 01:27:13 PM
    How about MULL-BERRY FEVER or MULL-BERRY Hill, from St. John's .... Chris Mullen and Walter Berry........ ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on April 08, 2010, 01:28:56 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on April 08, 2010, 01:24:43 PM
    YEP Bernard King and Ernie Grunfeld........ Did Shays play with Bowie, or right after him... Dolph Shays kid.......... ???

    Bouie graduated in 80 and Schayes in 81.  On cold winter nights you can still hear his whine echo in the Dome
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on April 08, 2010, 01:30:44 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on April 08, 2010, 01:27:13 PM
    How about MULL-BERRY FEVER or MULL-BERRY Hill, from St. John's .... Chris Mullen and Walter Berry........ ;) 

    Still two of the best college players I ever watched.  Berry in particular was so smooth it looked like he wasn't really trying.  And yet he was almost unstopable
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on April 08, 2010, 01:45:07 PM
    I can't agree more........Berry was like silk....... What most don't remember about Mullin is...while he was a great  shooter, he never missed when using the glass. I'm not talking about layups, I mean those inside the paint shots that most miss when trying to finger roll.......he would bank everything inside and never miss.......Believe it or not the starting POINT GUARD for that '85 team was not Mark Jackson... it was a guy named Mike Moses...never turned the ball over, had a decent enough shot to keep the defense honest. Rounding out that team was Willie Glass and Bill Wennington as starters. I can't even remember what I had for lunch.......... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on April 08, 2010, 02:04:59 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on April 08, 2010, 01:45:07 PM
    I can't agree more........Berry was like silk....... What most don't remember about Mullin is...while he was a great  shooter, he never missed when using the glass. I'm not talking about layups, I mean those inside the paint shots that most miss when trying to finger roll.......he would bank everything inside and never miss.......Believe it or not the starting POINT GUARD for that '85 team was not Mark Jackson... it was a guy named Mike Moses...never turned the ball over, had a decent enough shot to keep the defense honest. Rounding out that team was Willie Glass and Bill Wennington as starters. I can't even remember what I had for lunch.......... ;)

    I told this story somewhere before, but a UR player had an internship out in LA 2-3 summers ago and was playing in a summer league that Mark Jackson also played in.  The two of them got talking and the UR kid mentioned that Jeff VanGundy played at Nazareth.  Jackson reportedly said "So that's what VanGundy is always talking about.  Nobody ever has any idea what the f**k he's talking about when he goes on about the "Naz".  

    And I always thought Glass was going to be a superstar.  But what do.....nevermind


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on April 08, 2010, 04:42:55 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on April 08, 2010, 01:28:56 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on April 08, 2010, 01:24:43 PM
    YEP Bernard King and Ernie Grunfeld........ Did Shays play with Bowie, or right after him... Dolph Shays kid.......... ???

    Bouie graduated in 80 and Schayes in 81.  On cold winter nights you can still hear his whine echo in the Dome

    Wow you guys are old ;)

    How about RIT in the D1 frozen four?! Impressive feat for an E8 member -- FROMAFAR will you be watching?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on April 09, 2010, 06:00:10 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on April 08, 2010, 01:03:00 PM
    Yes Boeheim was an assitant to Danforth who left for Tulane... early 70's...I think Boeheim graduated in '65 or '66 from 'cuse.......The guys who catapulted "cuse were Louie Orr and a big guy named Bowie... couple of guards named Mary Headd and Cohen...   They were actually called the Cone-Head backcourt, and both guys shaved their heads... Fans would wear bald wigs OR actually shave their heads as well...........Boy am I aging myself........... 

    FROMAFAR,
    The backcourt guys were Marty Headd who went to Christian Brothers Academy in Syracuse and Hal Cohen who graduated from Canton High School in Canton, N.Y. Cohen received national attention from Sports Illustrated's Faces In the Crowd when at practice in high school one day he made 598 (no that's not a typo) consecutive free throws. He averaged 30 ppg in high school and had 56 in 1 game and didn't play the 4th quarter. He used to make the trip up here to Plattsburgh after he graduated from Syracuse and play in our annual PBA Tournament. One of the nicest guys around. His dad Stan was the head coach at SUNY Canton for quite a while and for the past 25 years or so has been the assistant coach at Potsdam St.

    Here's an interesting article on Marty Headd:

    http://www.dailyorange.com/2.8655/no-complaints-marty-headd-was-a-basketball-star-at-syracuse-nearly-30-years-ago-now-he-works-here-as-a-janitor-1.1227162

    Here's an article on Hal Cohen:

    http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20090112/SPORTS01/301119913/0/SPORTS
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on April 09, 2010, 09:02:18 AM
    Bomber 3 I told you I was old.......I can't speak for the other guys they are probably just smart..not old.... YES I watched the Frozen 4 last night.... Great being there but we got killed...........I guess..Turned it off in second period........ too many penalties.

    Magic, good stuff......... thanks for the articles........ ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on April 09, 2010, 11:26:23 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on April 09, 2010, 09:02:18 AM
    Bomber 3 I told you I was old.......I can't speak for the other guys they are probably just smart..not old.... YES I watched the Frozen 4 last night.... Great being there but we got killed...........I guess..Turned it off in second period........ too many penalties.

    Magic, good stuff......... thanks for the articles........ ;)
    I should have said mature....not old! And yes RIT got whooped but it was funny/cool hearing "rochester institute of technology" on sportcenter this morning. Too bad they couldn't put up a better fight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on May 11, 2010, 02:02:48 PM
    So, it appears Luke Flockerzi of Skidmore is going to be the next coach at the University of Rochester, setting in motion another coaching shift in the East Region.

    Any thoughts on who would be tapped to replace him at Skidmore? Or thoughts about Flockerzi at UofR?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on May 13, 2010, 10:06:27 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on May 11, 2010, 02:02:48 PM
    So, it appears Luke Flockerzi of Skidmore is going to be the next coach at the University of Rochester, setting in motion another coaching shift in the East Region.

    Any thoughts on who would be tapped to replace him at Skidmore? Or thoughts about Flockerzi at UofR?

    I'm a little surprised they went with someone relatively inexperienced, although he does have a pretty solid track record so far.  Neer was there for 34 years so I guess he had to be in his late 20's early 30's when they hired him so my guess is they want Flockerzi for the next few decades too.....So now an opening at Skidmore.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on May 13, 2010, 11:05:03 PM
    Just learned today that Plattsburgh State Associate Head Men's Basketball Coach Cameron Conover has applied for the Skidmore Head Coaching position. Conover has been at Plattsburgh State for the past 5 years assisting Coach Tom Curle and became the associate head coach several years ago. The Cardinals have been one of the top D3 schools in the state during that time winning 4 SUNYAC titles in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2010. They went to the NCAA tourney in each of those seasons and will probably be favored to win the SUNYAC title again this coming season as they return nearly all of their starting lineup. Conover's time spent under Curle's tutelage should prove invaluable and would make him a good fit for this young Skidmore team. He has his masters degree and at 30 or 31 years old he's a candidate that will probably spend a considerable amount of time in his first head coaching position. Skidmore should challenge for the Liberty League title next year as they return most of their rotation. Hope the Thoroughbreds hire a good coach, whoever that turns out to be, but they sure can't go wrong if it ends up being Conover
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bballguy2 on May 14, 2010, 12:40:49 PM
    Heard McAdam accepted a coaching position.  Anyone know anything about this?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on May 14, 2010, 04:52:20 PM
    Quote from: bballguy2 on May 14, 2010, 12:40:49 PM
    Heard McAdam accepted a coaching position.  Anyone know anything about this?

    According to a very reliable source (twitter via google) he is a grad assistant for Penn State Behrend College.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on May 17, 2010, 01:09:50 PM
    Ithaca's program might be going through a bit of a transition period next year as a number of changes will sweep through the program.  Unfortunately due primarily to budget cuts and Title IX issues, the JV program will most likely be dropped beginning next season.  I was told as a result of this, long-time varsity assistant and JV coach Mike Burton has decided not to return.  This would be a big loss to the program as he has been a staple of the program for over 20 years.

    Also, assistant coach Nevada Smith is rumored to be one of the leading candidates for the Skidmore opening.  He has been instrumental in taking Ithaca's program to the next level the past few years and would make an excellent head coach. Skidmore had a very successful season last year and would be a threat in the LL for years to come if Smith is hired. 

    On the recruiting front I've been told there are several stud recruits coming to South Hill next year.  Although I don't have any details, they should add to an already loaded lineup.  Hopefully they bring in a solid big man to replace Brown so Barera doesn't have to play the 5. 

    With possibly 2 of 3 coaches not returning and no JV program, Mullins would have to fill the voids rather quickly as summer break is already upon us.  Hopefully the program can deal with these (potential) changes seamlessly and not take a step back after two very successfuly seasons. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on June 09, 2010, 01:52:49 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on May 17, 2010, 01:09:50 PM
    Ithaca's program might be going through a bit of a transition period next year as a number of changes will sweep through the program.  Unfortunately due primarily to budget cuts and Title IX issues, the JV program will most likely be dropped beginning next season.  I was told as a result of this, long-time varsity assistant and JV coach Mike Burton has decided not to return.  This would be a big loss to the program as he has been a staple of the program for over 20 years.

    Also, assistant coach Nevada Smith is rumored to be one of the leading candidates for the Skidmore opening.  He has been instrumental in taking Ithaca's program to the next level the past few years and would make an excellent head coach. Skidmore had a very successful season last year and would be a threat in the LL for years to come if Smith is hired. 

    On the recruiting front I've been told there are several stud recruits coming to South Hill next year.  Although I don't have any details, they should add to an already loaded lineup.  Hopefully they bring in a solid big man to replace Brown so Barera doesn't have to play the 5. 

    With possibly 2 of 3 coaches not returning and no JV program, Mullins would have to fill the voids rather quickly as summer break is already upon us.  Hopefully the program can deal with these (potential) changes seamlessly and not take a step back after two very successfuly seasons. 

    I've heard the Bombers have a very athletic, fringe D-1 talent coming in from Atlanta who will likely play the wing.

    Too bad about the JV program and (if it happens) Nevada leaving. Interesting that there are athletic budget cuts considering they're building a $60 M dollar athletic and events center.

    Frankly, unless the coaching system is shot to heck, I think Ithaca could be really good next year. I know they're hoping for a big man still, but when you're bringing back almost all your best players from a 20-8 team, I mean, how can we not expect great things?

    The last squad reminded me a lot of the 07-08 team. Good, but you just get the sense they needed another year to gel.

    The guy I really expect big things from is Cruz-Rivas. He was the guy whose game is so reliant on his chemistry with the PG. I think having a whole off-season to work with Rossi and get more in sync will really benefit him.

    If Ithaca can bring in some depth, that would be huge. IC really only rotated seven guys last year and with the pace they play, asking four guys to give you 30-35 minutes a night is a lot. I think one of the things that caught up with IC last year was just fatigue.

    I expect a regular season in the 20-win range
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on June 09, 2010, 11:38:29 AM
    Bomber 798891...your sucking me in for early preview.... I will wait until the fall, I will say early prediction IC and RIT will be one two in conference. Fisher as always will be in the mix....

    Hartwick moves up a bit
    Naz takes a hit and backs up
    Stevens takes biggest hit and will be near the bottom.
    UC no change
    Alfred moves up a bit
    Elmira no change


    remember I have no idea about recruits.......In fall I will give more detail on why.......... But remember WHAT DO I KNOW ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on June 10, 2010, 10:51:23 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on June 09, 2010, 11:38:29 AM
    Bomber 798891...your sucking me in for early preview.... I will wait until the fall, I will say early prediction IC and RIT will be one two in conference. Fisher as always will be in the mix....

    Hartwick moves up a bit
    Naz takes a hit and backs up
    Stevens takes biggest hit and will be near the bottom.
    UC no change
    Alfred moves up a bit
    Elmira no change


    remember I have no idea about recruits.......In fall I will give more detail on why.......... But remember WHAT DO I KNOW ;)

    So we have a Bomber fan picking the Bombers and a RIT fan picking the Tigers ;)

    I thought Stevens would fall off big-time last year and I was sorely mistaken.  I'm not going to make that mistake again...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on June 10, 2010, 07:25:29 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on June 10, 2010, 10:51:23 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on June 09, 2010, 11:38:29 AM
    Bomber 798891...your sucking me in for early preview.... I will wait until the fall, I will say early prediction IC and RIT will be one two in conference. Fisher as always will be in the mix....

    Hartwick moves up a bit
    Naz takes a hit and backs up
    Stevens takes biggest hit and will be near the bottom.
    UC no change
    Alfred moves up a bit
    Elmira no change


    remember I have no idea about recruits.......In fall I will give more detail on why.......... But remember WHAT DO I KNOW ;)

    So we have a Bomber fan picking the Bombers and a RIT fan picking the Tigers ;)

    I thought Stevens would fall off big-time last year and I was sorely mistaken.  I'm not going to make that mistake again...

    Not justany Bomber fan, buddy. I guess it's just death and taxes this year  :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on June 11, 2010, 11:07:41 AM
    I think IC will be good but they usually don't amount to taking the title as they are usually streaky and RIT has disappointed last few years. I'd have to go with Fisher at the #1 spot as usual, even if they don't have the talent they typically play the most consistent and best team basketball in the league. With Koch coming back who could be player of the year now that he has a year under his belt, Jordan gettings 3 year starter/leader at the point, Will Cornet athletic wing, and Jason Norson very solid Big man who should shine now that he is a sophemore, they have good pieces in place.  They have a very very good recruiting class coming in consisting of players from Colorado, California, Pittsburgh, and Connecticut (I think), includes mostly wing players, 1 pg, and a 6'8 center. 

    The losses of Newman and Wopperer will hurt a little bit but Norson should have a better year than Wopp had last year and Gettings took over as the pg anyways in the prior years.

    any other info on recruits for other schools?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on June 11, 2010, 11:16:14 AM
    Quote from: FisherDynasty on June 11, 2010, 11:07:41 AM
    I think IC will be good but they usually don't amount to taking the title as they are usually streaky and RIT has disappointed last few years. I'd have to go with Fisher at the #1 spot as usual, even if they don't have the talent they typically play the most consistent and best team basketball in the league. With Koch coming back who could be player of the year now that he has a year under his belt, Jordan gettings 3 year starter/leader at the point, Will Cornet athletic wing, and Jason Norson very solid Big man who should shine now that he is a sophemore, they have good pieces in place.  They have a very very good recruiting class coming in consisting of players from Colorado, California, Pittsburgh, and Connecticut (I think), includes mostly wing players, 1 pg, and a 6'8 center. 

    The losses of Newman and Wopperer will hurt a little bit but Norson should have a better year than Wopp had last year and Gettings took over as the pg anyways in the prior years.

    any other info on recruits for other schools?

    Let me update my post --

    So we have a Bomber fan picking the Bombers, a RIT fan picking the Tigers, and a SJF fan picking the Cardinals  ;)

    And yes Bombers you're right....hell just froze over!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on June 11, 2010, 01:30:50 PM
    You guys are great......... really........ so maybe we can get an Elmira fan and see if we can keep this going...........

    here I go again, but don't be fooled by Stevens success last year.  They were 13-13 the year before ( I think) They lost Grey, and Passalaqua...so some thought they would go backwards........ The only real addition was Greco and they go 18-8, and make the conf. tourney. That's a huge swing with only one change...Yes they had a back up freshman guard, ( forgot his name) who could shoot a bit and played a few minutes, but played most of the time with Greco in the back court. As I recall he didn't penetrate and was very hesitant passsing. IF he is going to take Greco's spot at the point, I see them dropping way down... Compare next years team to the team before this past year. If I told you no Passalaqua, no Grey and virtually no replacements... and they went 13-13..... I can actually see a 4-12 conference record for this team... So maybe 8-16 with no post season...I hope not because I like watching them. But this will mean bottom heavy with Elmira Alfred and Stevens battling for last place and Utica just a cut above. I'm telling yoiu the biggest loss Stevens has had over the last 4 years teams will be Greco. He gave the team a personality and a bit fo saunter as well as wins. I believe they won over 60 games in his 3 years of playing witha sweet 16 an ECAC Championship and another ECAC appearance..... It will be awhile before they see that again. 
    Now as far as RIT.. They didn't disappoint two years ago.... as a matter of fact I considered that an above expectation year. Last year yes... very disappointing.   I think they will be at the top because basically everyone back and they started to have a set rotation...I believe 3 team race...with Rit and Ithaca 1-2... I  think the guards of Fisher are a little over-rated....but then again not many good point guards left in the league...This should stir it up a bit......But WHAT DO------- ;)   


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on June 19, 2010, 11:53:10 PM
    Talked to an IC coach today...Bombers got their big man. Name withheld, but apparently, he's 6-8, and was recruited by Cornell as well. Also told they got a very good guard coming in as well. The term used to describe them was "the big three."

    I know no details of the players beyond that, but sounds like Ithaca's got the making of an improved team. Twenty wins is probably the new expectation, at least for me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on June 21, 2010, 11:03:09 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on June 19, 2010, 11:53:10 PM
    Talked to an IC coach today...Bombers got their big man. Name withheld, but apparently, he's 6-8, and was recruited by Cornell as well. Also told they got a very good guard coming in as well. The term used to describe them was "the big three."

    I know no details of the players beyond that, but sounds like Ithaca's got the making of an improved team. Twenty wins is probably the new expectation, at least for me.
    Ooo I like the sound of that!  Now I know he would be a freshman but that is the piece they really needed to put something really great together.  If he can come in and play the 5 right off the bat, that moves Barera to his natural position at the 4.  Throw in one of the top freshman guards in the country, another all-conference player (honorable mention) on the wing, and somone who dropped 40+ on more than one occassion.  I just got excited...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on June 21, 2010, 05:51:12 PM
    6-8 is good, obviously, but can he run the court? Otherwise it will limit his effectiveness in the Bombers current frenetic offense. Or perhaps they will change their philosophy, but I think that's a longshot since they've been building their team in the run-and-gun style for a while now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on June 21, 2010, 05:56:34 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on June 21, 2010, 05:51:12 PM
    6-8 is good, obviously, but can he run the court? Otherwise it will limit his effectiveness in the Bombers current frenetic offense. Or perhaps they will change their philosophy, but I think that's a longshot since they've been building their team in the run-and-gun style for a while now.
    As long as he isn't Kenny George-esque (the 7'7" guy from UNC-something who Hansborough dunked on) then they should be ok.  They could probably get away with one slug on the court anyways.  

    Edit: And no they will not be changing their tempo.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on June 21, 2010, 06:02:50 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on June 21, 2010, 05:56:34 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on June 21, 2010, 05:51:12 PM
    6-8 is good, obviously, but can he run the court? Otherwise it will limit his effectiveness in the Bombers current frenetic offense. Or perhaps they will change their philosophy, but I think that's a longshot since they've been building their team in the run-and-gun style for a while now.
    As long as he isn't Kenny George-esque (the 7'7" guy from UNC-something who Hansborough dunked on) then they should be ok.  They could probably get away with one slug on the court anyways. 

    Tom Brown wasn't exactly dashing up the court either...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on June 23, 2010, 03:16:32 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on June 21, 2010, 06:02:50 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on June 21, 2010, 05:56:34 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on June 21, 2010, 05:51:12 PM
    6-8 is good, obviously, but can he run the court? Otherwise it will limit his effectiveness in the Bombers current frenetic offense. Or perhaps they will change their philosophy, but I think that's a longshot since they've been building their team in the run-and-gun style for a while now.
    As long as he isn't Kenny George-esque (the 7'7" guy from UNC-something who Hansborough dunked on) then they should be ok.  They could probably get away with one slug on the court anyways. 

    Tom Brown wasn't exactly dashing up the court either...
    Tom Brown certainly wasn't a gazelle on the court but he wasn't a tortoise either.  An accurate comparision would be a big lumbering moose running up and down the court -- once those old knees got moving he was fast.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on July 12, 2010, 09:19:25 AM
    Spoke with an inside source at Utica College over the weekend and rumor has it they have quite a recruiting class coming in.  One player in particular, a last minute holdout who had a scholarship renigged or lost at Lemoyne.  I am told he is 6'7" who will instantaneously be first team all conference (drop-step dunks, good touch, etc).  There also were a few other solid recruits coming in but this player was the prize.  

    With IC reportedly having a top notch center coming in as well this could make quite a rivalry if they are both as good as advertised.  The league has been missing top-notch centers since the likes of Mark Carson, Jeff Bostic, McSweeney, etc.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Hugenerd on July 12, 2010, 11:27:38 PM
    Elmira has a pretty good player coming in next year (sorry if this has been posted already, I am new to the board).

    Demir Smajovic is a 6'4", 215 pound G/F.  The kid can play, he has deep range and can finish above the rim. He is ranked by NERR as the 3rd best high school player in Vermont for the class of 2010.

    http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/rankings/vermont.php

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on July 13, 2010, 09:13:18 PM
    Quote from: hugenerd on July 12, 2010, 11:27:38 PM
    Elmira has a pretty good player coming in next year (sorry if this has been posted already, I am new to the board).

    Demir Smajovic is a 6'4", 215 pound G/F.  The kid can play, he has deep range and can finish above the rim. He is ranked by NERR as the 3rd best high school player in Vermont for the class of 2010.

    http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/rankings/vermont.php


    How good is Vermont basketball?  I see a few D1 schools on the list -- not sure how Elmira fits into that equation though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Hugenerd on July 13, 2010, 09:59:50 PM
    The top few players are usually good.  Smajovic led his team to the Vermont DI state championship, over the #1 ranked team in the state, Burlington.  Burlington also had the #1 ranked player in the state, in Joe Oshea (who is a top 250 national recruit as ranked by espn), who is headed to Holy Cross next year.  Burlington's only 2 losses of the season were to Essex.  He was also a McDonalds All-American nominee.

    I dont know how the recruitment went, but he is a legit scholarship level player.  I know there was some buzz about a bunch of high-level D2 schools going after him, but Elmira did a great job in getting him.  He should walk in on day 1 as a starter (he is pretty versatile with his size, athleticism, and shooting ability).

    Smajovic recently played for the Vermont All-Stars, as they beat New Hampshire in Twin State Basketball Classic.
    Twin State Basketball Classic Recap (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2010100710004)

    Here is a picture of Smajovic from earlier in the year:
    Smajovic Dunk (http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID33405/images/resized_demirdunksm.jpg)

    and a video clip:
    Samjovic Dunk (http://video.aol.ca/video-detail/top-play-3-essexs-smajovic-gets-steal-and-dunk/1987799609/?icid=VIDURVNWS06)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on July 14, 2010, 10:16:41 AM
    Hey gang, good to see we have some summer chatter going on....Great job on some of the recruits coming in..... Any RIT, Fisher, Stevens, Hartwick, Naz or Alfred recruiting info????   Seems Utica, IC, Elmira have some activity....I think the Tigers are ready to compete for the top spot with what they have, any additions will certanly be a plus...Fisher can compete with what they have, but Korny will have some new talent coming for sure. Of course IC will be right there... They have to get rid of that "girl with the curl" stigma. Hartwick could use a big and someone to handle... They have to get away from that one man offense. They could steal the 4th spot... Naz has talent but filling McAdams shoes... impossible... Need a good handle at the point. Could be between them and Hartwick for the 4 spot.... I don't think one recruit can help UC BUT that 4th spot will not be a real strong team. So UC also could be in that picture. Alfred, Stevens, Elmira should bring up the rear. I really believe unless Stevens gets a strong rebounder and someone who can get the ball to Smith down low, they may bring up the rear. Cutri can shoot, as can Thompson... but they can't create shots, and any kind of defense will stop them.  Smith can score but how does he get the ball. Elmira has to show some improvement, and consistancy. Alfred really disappointed last year, as some thought they might push for the 4 spot.. They went to the Hartwick style, of one guy taking all the shots... You can't win that way.....Hey not bad for the summer months..... I will probably have it all different come tip off, because WHAT DO I KNOW ;)       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on July 16, 2010, 10:29:23 AM
    Pep was delighted to yesterday meet an Alfred recruit from Luxembourg...it was the kid's first day in the States!

    FYI: Luxembourg encompasses just under 1000 square miles; Allegany County encompasses a little over 1000 square miles.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on July 16, 2010, 11:22:20 AM
    PEP, he should feel right at home...........OK so we are getting there.... I heard froma very UN reliable source RIT picked up another shooter... about 6"6"....... again, unreliable... anyone hear about that one.. What's Fisher and Stevens up to....anyone????? ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on July 16, 2010, 02:26:10 PM
    Pep heard at the Eddie Meath football game that Livonia WR Bob Schuster was headed to RIT to play hoops, forsaking the pigskin in favor of roundball. At RIT, football won't even present itself as a temptation!

    Pep is a bit disappointed as both of Schuster's uncles(?) starred at Alfred on the gridiron, the older Billy (now an NFL official) as a WR and the younger Bobby as QB.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on July 19, 2010, 03:36:11 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on July 16, 2010, 11:22:20 AM
    PEP, he should feel right at home...........OK so we are getting there.... I heard froma very UN reliable source RIT picked up another shooter... about 6"6"....... again, unreliable... anyone hear about that one.. What's Fisher and Stevens up to....anyone????? ;)

    Pep believes Coach Wellman will likely bring in 8 freshmen recruits this season. Not sure what he's getting but hopefully, some kids who are TALL!

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on July 21, 2010, 09:25:16 PM
    Quote from: hugenerd on July 13, 2010, 09:59:50 PM
    The top few players are usually good.  Smajovic led his team to the Vermont DI state championship, over the #1 ranked team in the state, Burlington.  Burlington also had the #1 ranked player in the state, in Joe Oshea (who is a top 250 national recruit as ranked by espn), who is headed to Holy Cross next year.  Burlington's only 2 losses of the season were to Essex.  He was also a McDonalds All-American nominee.

    I dont know how the recruitment went, but he is a legit scholarship level player.  I know there was some buzz about a bunch of high-level D2 schools going after him, but Elmira did a great job in getting him.  He should walk in on day 1 as a starter (he is pretty versatile with his size, athleticism, and shooting ability).

    Smajovic recently played for the Vermont All-Stars, as they beat New Hampshire in Twin State Basketball Classic.
    Twin State Basketball Classic Recap (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2010100710004)

    Here is a picture of Smajovic from earlier in the year:
    Smajovic Dunk (http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID33405/images/resized_demirdunksm.jpg)

    and a video clip:
    Samjovic Dunk (http://video.aol.ca/video-detail/top-play-3-essexs-smajovic-gets-steal-and-dunk/1987799609/?icid=VIDURVNWS06)
    borderline travel on that dunk -- hopefully he has better luck dunking than his future teammates...not sure who it was but against IC two years ago at Elmira someone tried dunking on a last second play (when elmira was down 40) and got stuffed by the rim -- added insult to injury..

    Kid looks decent but I would be surprised if Elmira wins more than 8-9 games this year -- they beat cortland last year but haven't beaten a top 4 E8 team in at least 5 years i dont think
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Hugenerd on July 21, 2010, 11:52:14 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on July 21, 2010, 09:25:16 PM
    Quote from: hugenerd on July 13, 2010, 09:59:50 PM
    The top few players are usually good.  Smajovic led his team to the Vermont DI state championship, over the #1 ranked team in the state, Burlington.  Burlington also had the #1 ranked player in the state, in Joe Oshea (who is a top 250 national recruit as ranked by espn), who is headed to Holy Cross next year.  Burlington's only 2 losses of the season were to Essex.  He was also a McDonalds All-American nominee.

    I dont know how the recruitment went, but he is a legit scholarship level player.  I know there was some buzz about a bunch of high-level D2 schools going after him, but Elmira did a great job in getting him.  He should walk in on day 1 as a starter (he is pretty versatile with his size, athleticism, and shooting ability).

    Smajovic recently played for the Vermont All-Stars, as they beat New Hampshire in Twin State Basketball Classic.
    Twin State Basketball Classic Recap (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2010100710004)

    Here is a picture of Smajovic from earlier in the year:
    Smajovic Dunk (http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID33405/images/resized_demirdunksm.jpg)

    and a video clip:
    Samjovic Dunk (http://video.aol.ca/video-detail/top-play-3-essexs-smajovic-gets-steal-and-dunk/1987799609/?icid=VIDURVNWS06)
    borderline travel on that dunk -- hopefully he has better luck dunking than his future teammates...not sure who it was but against IC two years ago at Elmira someone tried dunking on a last second play (when elmira was down 40) and got stuffed by the rim -- added insult to injury..

    Kid looks decent but I would be surprised if Elmira wins more than 8-9 games this year -- they beat cortland last year but haven't beaten a top 4 E8 team in at least 5 years i dont think

    That would be twice as many as last year!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on August 30, 2010, 08:02:20 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on June 10, 2010, 10:51:23 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on June 09, 2010, 11:38:29 AM
    Bomber 798891...your sucking me in for early preview.... I will wait until the fall, I will say early prediction IC and RIT will be one two in conference. Fisher as always will be in the mix....

    Hartwick moves up a bit
    Naz takes a hit and backs up
    Stevens takes biggest hit and will be near the bottom.
    UC no change
    Alfred moves up a bit
    Elmira no change


    remember I have no idea about recruits.......In fall I will give more detail on why.......... But remember WHAT DO I KNOW ;)

    So we have a Bomber fan picking the Bombers and a RIT fan picking the Tigers ;)

    I thought Stevens would fall off big-time last year and I was sorely mistaken.  I'm not going to make that mistake again...

    Add a Fisher Fan picking the Cardinals.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: lileyes on September 07, 2010, 09:14:47 AM
    Ryan McAdam signed to play oversees in Manchester, England
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on September 10, 2010, 07:51:29 AM
    I thought he had a grad assistant position already in line?  Did he change his mind last minute?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on September 12, 2010, 11:49:44 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on August 30, 2010, 08:02:20 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on June 10, 2010, 10:51:23 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on June 09, 2010, 11:38:29 AM
    Bomber 798891...your sucking me in for early preview.... I will wait until the fall, I will say early prediction IC and RIT will be one two in conference. Fisher as always will be in the mix....

    Hartwick moves up a bit
    Naz takes a hit and backs up
    Stevens takes biggest hit and will be near the bottom.
    UC no change
    Alfred moves up a bit
    Elmira no change


    remember I have no idea about recruits.......In fall I will give more detail on why.......... But remember WHAT DO I KNOW ;)

    So we have a Bomber fan picking the Bombers and a RIT fan picking the Tigers ;)

    I thought Stevens would fall off big-time last year and I was sorely mistaken.  I'm not going to make that mistake again...

    Add a Fisher Fan picking the Cardinals.

    Word from Saxonville is that Coach Dale Wellman has his best recruiting class to date. Pep will go out on a limb and, giving in to peer pressure, as a Saxon fan, pick the Saxons to take it all.
    ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 13, 2010, 12:38:17 PM
    That a boy PEP, now if we could get some Utica, Elmira, Stevens and Hartwick blood flowing we can have some fun.... Truly I think all Alfred has to do, other than get some players which PEP is hearing... get out of that COCO style of play... distribute the ball...are you listening Hartwick, you too. This one man show does not work..  On the other hand, my Tigers are too busy trying to spread it out. We need a set rotation and not 16 guys. Oh boy looks like I'm warming up.  We're almost there.... well sort of....... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on September 13, 2010, 03:50:57 PM
    Sorry for the delay boys, been a long time.  Just caught up on some of the posts, going to add a little bit of what I can gather from the Stevens group this year.


    First, FROMAFAR, as always we've gone back and forth on the importance of Greco to the Stevens program, and we agree that he is certainly a good player, but saying he's the biggest loss of the last 4 years is a stretch.  He isn't the biggest point guard loss in the 4 years (Morris, class of '07), and would certainly not be considered a bigger loss than Farid, Gray, or Williams.  If you were to ask Skyline or E8 coaches which of those 5 (Morris, Farid, Gray, Williams, Greco) they're happiest is gone the vast majority would rather the Ducks had Greco than the other 4.  Remember, he was a 14 minute a game freshman on the Sweet 16 squad that was really used as a spell guy and defensive pest when Morris needed a break.  Aside from Collins the starters that year almost never came off the floor (Morris at 28 mpg, Passalacqua at 31 mpg, Gray at 34 mpg, Farid at 34 mpg).  His win total of 60 is a little misleading if you're including his freshman year where he only started 1 game because Gray was suspended.  You can't really include the 23 wins from his freshman year in the "60 win" total you gave him because he was a role player on those teams.  The year after Morris left Greco was a starter but Farid primarily played with the ball in his hands and Greco was really the 5th option on that starting lineup.  Last year he was really his first season as the true "leader" of a Stevens club and he played well, but Thompson showed glimpses of being a suitable replacement.  Overall Greco probably goes down as the 4th best point guard to play at the school:


    1) Bronstein (3rd All-Time in Points, 5th All-Time in Assists)
    2) Morris (All-Time Career Assists Leader, most wins as starting PG in Stevens History w/59 in 4 years)
    3) Gavina (4th All-Time in Points, 2nd All-Time 3 pointers Made)
    4) Greco (2nd most wins as starting point guard w/40 in 3 years)


    As for the 2010-2011 edition of the Ducks, look for them to be more competitive than expected.  For starters, consider the fact that Thompson (So.) and Cutri (Jr.) finished 1-2 All-Time for 3 point percentage in a season.  Thompson shot 49% (42/86) from behind the arc, while Cutri was 47% (46/97).  I don't expect either to shoot that well this year, but to have 2 guys shooting 40% from behind the arc gives you a good chance to stay in ballgames.  I also expect the Stevens transition at PG to continue without much of a hiccup.  When Morris graduated after senior year and Greco was the rising PG everyone worried what would happen when Morris graduated, as he had been a 3 year captain and 4 year starter for the Ducks.  Sure enough, Greco stepped in and the team had another outstanding season.  Now, Greco is the outgoing senior and Thompson is the rising PG, and I think he will be able to step up and do a good job.  Not as good a playmaker as Greco or Morris, but this team will need him to score more than Morris or Greco had to, and he has that capability.

    Simon Smith returns after averaging 12 and 9 last year while shooting close to 60%.  You know what he's going to give you every night and hopefully he stayed in the gym shooting free throws because he gets to the line often (142 attempts last year) but makes few (shot 47%).  Up front with him will probably be Bryan Franklin and a new incoming freshman who, without seeing the rest of the league, is my early choice for E8 Rookie of the Year.  Bout 6'6", athletic big kid from NC.  Runs the floor extremely well.  Looked phenomenal for the Ducks in summer league and should get better with some game experience and weight training.  

    Bench features a ton of guys who saw minutes last year, including Kessler, Jones, and Schwartz.  They also have 3 recruits who should be solid, but not major, contributors as conference play approaches later in the season.

    As stated by Bomber, doom and gloom for the Ducks is risky because they've proven to be surprisingly consistent over the last 5 years, and I think this team is probably a 16-11 squad without seeing what their schedule looks like for this year.  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FisherDynasty on September 14, 2010, 12:03:33 AM
    Fromafar, I posted about Fishers recruiting class a few pages back, it is supposedly going to be very good and deep, considered one of the best ever ranging from players accross the country.  Word of mouth is the players also have good heads on there shoulders so we will see what they can do on the court. As Fisher has good players coming back only 1 or 2 need to have an impact.  Fisher should be the team to beat as usually, even if they arnt, they should but until another team actually proves they deserve any hype whatsover, I feel like this is a annual saying these days.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 14, 2010, 09:26:16 AM
    Cyclone, good to have you back, need that Stevens insight. You make a lot of snese and obviously follow the Ducks more than anyone on this site. I agree a Morris to Greco comparison is askew in that Morris was a true point guard. He actually gave up shots he should have taken trying to get the ball to Farid, and Gray. As you said awhile ago, I think it was you, that Greco was a 1 1/2 rather than a pure 1. Thta certainly proved to be true.  Maybe I mis-communcated a bit.  You can't compare a point guard to a two or a 3 or a Center. I think Gray, Williams and Greco all complimented one another. When Collins played on that NCAA team h too did his job weel. Blocked shots and rebounding. That team needed everyone of those guys to get to the sweet 16. Including Greco and Higgans off the bench. You tell me, did those guys bringa swagger to the team? Didn't they seem to give the teama personality. The loss of Willaims at Center tough to replace... Smith is doinga good job there. Passalaqua didn't impress me really. Excellent shooter, but what you got there you lost on defense and seemed to slow the team downa bit... I dunno you know better, losing him didn't seem to be an issue. Farid held the ball too much as you said had the ball in his hands more than anyone on the'08 team, that hurt a bity because Ibelieve his turnover numbers were pretty high. Gray was great and could have been better his senior year had Greco been there to distribute.  So I guess all I am saying after hearing your much more learned take on the team is yes Morris Williams Gray and Greco brought that team to new hights. While all will be missed sorely this year will be very interesting. Actually going from Morris to Greco to Thompson is interesting. Morris a true 1-  Greco a 1.5, and Thompson so far a small 2. I'll give Thompson this year to see if he can get it to Smith down low. Not turn the ball over and accumulate 110 assists.   Hey Cyclone who is backing up Thompson at the point? 

    So Cyclone I will let you carry the flag fro Stevens, I have to worry about the Tigers. Sad part is we are moving on next year. I still don't like that. I truly believe if we keep our rotation to 8 or 9 and stick with it we will be very good this year. Although Bombers are talking like they have recruited possibly 3 starters.....if I have that right, and with what they have already should be tough, very tough... Fisher boys are very confident they have the best and recruits are awsome. Any Naz news out there? I still think RIT, Fisher, IC, are top 3........ and Elmira, Stevens, Alfred and Utica battle for bottom 4. That leaves Hartwick and Naz looking for the 4 spot, BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on September 14, 2010, 09:40:38 AM
    FROMAFAR -


    Greco and Higgins were instrumental in that Sweet 16 run in '07, and I think part of that was the overall mentality of that team.  They were, the most part, just tougher than other teams.  What Greco allowed Loeffler to do was either rest Morris or, and this was a staple move, play Greco at his "1.5" position by letting Morris be the point and set Greco up. 

    As for Thompson, I think he is in a similar mold to those two.  Seemed to be a tough kid, stepped up in big games, but also was a guy who showed up in games the Ducks were struggling.  Can remember at least 2 times I was pretty sure he was going to fight the opposing teams center, though that fight wouldn't have ended well.  He is not as good a passer as Greco, which could be a problem as you said, because they need Smith to have a big year.  Behind Thompson at the point is a work in progress.  Most likely Cutri will slide off the 2 spot and be the ball handler when Thompson isn't in, which I think limits his offensive game.  Rumors are going that Sanchez, the point from a couple years ago, could be back this year, which would help them, but I have no idea if those are true.  If not they are going with Sophomore Thompson and a freshman at point, in which case Thompson may not come off the court.  The freshman looked ok but he might be 4'6".  Ok, maybe 5'3", but seriously, he's small.


    For me, RIT IC and Fisher are again cream of the crop.  I think Naz and Stevens battle for the final spot with Hartwick nipping.  Still think Elmira is moving in the right direction, with Utica going the other way.  And the Alfred boys will show up and play hard every game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 14, 2010, 09:51:35 AM
    Great stuff cyclone, look forward to season and the posts.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Hugenerd on September 20, 2010, 08:15:37 PM
    Elmira apparently has another pretty good freshman on campus, a 6'4" point guard out of Maryland, Derrick Vogel.  Here is a clip of him with 7 steals in the first half of a high school game:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3mtZv5lrQY&feature=related
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on September 21, 2010, 06:24:54 PM
    I am officially very interested in the Fisher recruiting class. How does Kornaker get these guys from all over the country? I don't know what his recruiting budget is, but no other Fisher teams seem to be able to pull from that wide of an area.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: E8GUY on September 22, 2010, 04:14:13 PM
    Quote from: hugenerd on September 20, 2010, 08:15:37 PM
    Elmira apparently has another pretty good freshman on campus, a 6'4" point guard out of Maryland, Derrick Vogel.  Here is a clip of him with 7 steals in the first half of a high school game:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3mtZv5lrQY&feature=related

    Vogel is only 6'2 but is a very legit player and should make an impact freshman year.  The guy hitting all the threes on passes from Derrick is also enrolled at Elmira, and Smajovic will be a rookie of the year candidate.

    The Elmira class is deep and talented.

    The days of expecting an automatic win at Elmira are over.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3hooper33 on September 22, 2010, 04:20:34 PM
    Just spoke with the head coach over at Utica he has brought in 12 new kids and he said 4 potential new starters including a 6'10 center and a 6'8 3 man who can shoot it. Most of the kids are from the city and are very athletic he said that they have a freshman guard that should be freshman of the year as well who is 6'4 and can just flat out score sounds like utica will be back in the mix
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on September 22, 2010, 06:59:30 PM
    I've heard big things about Ithaca as well.  By the sound of everyone on these boards the empire 8 should have at least 3 of the four spots in the final four..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 23, 2010, 01:13:46 PM
    Bomber 3 I love it.......... your right, we may even get the whole final 4 if they move people out of the area.   No really this is great stuff. Now we have Utica and Elmira guys, along with IC, Fisher, RIT, Stevens ( I assume Cyclone, although only committed knowledge not allegiance) , of course PEP from Alfred,.   I still don't have Hartwick blood, and I thought they had a shot at the 4 spot until I heard of all these studs coming.  Looks like Hartwick.. Stevens and RIT don't boast any big new additions yet??? BUT what do I know ;)  I have a feeling this is going to be fun year.     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: E8GUY on September 23, 2010, 01:42:57 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on September 23, 2010, 01:13:46 PM
    Bomber 3 I love it.......... your right, we may even get the whole final 4 if they move people out of the area.   No really this is great stuff. Now we have Utica and Elmira guys, along with IC, Fisher, RIT, Stevens ( I assume Cyclone, although only committed knowledge not allegiance) , of course PEP from Alfred,.   I still don't have Hartwick blood, and I thought they had a shot at the 4 spot until I heard of all these studs coming.  Looks like Hartwick.. Stevens and RIT don't boast any big new additions yet??? BUT what do I know ;)  I have a feeling this is going to be fun year.     

    As for Hartwick the last I heard Todd had eight firm commitments, and he is on a serious mission to upgrade that program.  He is a very engaging guy, with true integrity too, and the town is an easier sell than many other E-8 locations for downstate talent.

    Elmira has a fabulous class but Hartwick is the easy bet to become an annual force if McGuinness stays.  They have a lot going for them.

    The school that needs to watch their back is Ithaca, they already killed the JV, what other downgrades are coming?  With more competition from past also rans they will not be able to rest on past successes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 23, 2010, 01:54:22 PM
    Guy, I agree aboout McGuiness, he's the guy who figured out Stevens last year. CUT OFF THE HEAD> His triangle and two on Cutri and Greco showed just how everthing came through those two. They kept the ball out of Greco's hands and didn't let Cutri shoot. McGuiness is certainly a good coach, let's see if he is recruiting well. Don't sell IC short. The JV program is not that important. BUT I will say after Stevens ( HOBOKEN) city kids might want to stay closer to city.   I am starting to worry abit about my Tigers. Nothing firm on recruits, just rumors. I am not in the inner circle, I am FROMAFAR so there could be some good guys coming..  I truly believe if they spread the offense out at Hartwick they will be in the mix. BUT ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on September 23, 2010, 09:02:27 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on September 23, 2010, 01:13:46 PM
    Bomber 3 I love it.......... your right, we may even get the whole final 4 if they move people out of the area.   No really this is great stuff. Now we have Utica and Elmira guys, along with IC, Fisher, RIT, Stevens ( I assume Cyclone, although only committed knowledge not allegiance) , of course PEP from Alfred,.   I still don't have Hartwick blood, and I thought they had a shot at the 4 spot until I heard of all these studs coming.  Looks like Hartwick.. Stevens and RIT don't boast any big new additions yet??? BUT what do I know ;)  I have a feeling this is going to be fun year.     

    I love to see some juice from several programs as well. I can not wait for this year, as I think this may be one of the more wide open seasons we have had in the conference. Just taking Fisher for example, with what they have coming back I could see them winning the conference regular season, then again, after hearing about some of the recruiting classes, and what I know about players returning, I can see them not making the E8 tournament. I think a lot of teams are in that category. Should be a lot of fun.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on September 24, 2010, 09:17:27 AM
    E8GUY:

    In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

    There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
    Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

    Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

    Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on September 24, 2010, 05:11:48 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 24, 2010, 09:17:27 AM
    E8GUY:

    In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

    There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
    Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

    Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

    Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later. 


    Talked to a Bomber assistant coach and told him jokingly that I expected at least 20 this year. His response: "Come on man, give me a break." The schedule is very tough, even for a Bomber team that figures to have talent.

    Word is Jordan Marcus lost 20 pounds, and Phil Barera gained 20. Both those things figure to be good.

    Bottom line, and Bomber3 will hate this: I really don't care how the team does in the regular season. I mean, I want them to do well, and they probably will. But there's a stigma attached to this program right now, of their own doing. The program, as a whole, has never won an E8 tourney game and hasn't won an NCAA Tourney game since the very early 90's. Does that mean I won't come watch them shoot the lights out in February and be happy when they do? Of course not.

    It does mean that I consider this team talented enough to be one of the Top 4 in the league, and at that point, I want to see them put it together when it matters. They're going to be good, but it's time for them to fulfill their potential. We've had three great regular seasons, but it's time to take the next step
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on September 25, 2010, 01:38:49 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on September 24, 2010, 05:11:48 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 24, 2010, 09:17:27 AM
    E8GUY:

    In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

    There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
    Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

    Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

    Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later.  


    Talked to a Bomber assistant coach and told him jokingly that I expected at least 20 this year. His response: "Come on man, give me a break." The schedule is very tough, even for a Bomber team that figures to have talent.

    Word is Jordan Marcus lost 20 pounds, and Phil Barera gained 20. Both those things figure to be good.

    Bottom line, and Bomber3 will hate this: I really don't care how the team does in the regular season. I mean, I want them to do well, and they probably will. But there's a stigma attached to this program right now, of their own doing. The program, as a whole, has never won an E8 tourney game and hasn't won an NCAA Tourney game since the very early 90's. Does that mean I won't come watch them shoot the lights out in February and be happy when they do? Of course not.

    It does mean that I consider this team talented enough to be one of the Top 4 in the league, and at that point, I want to see them put it together when it matters. They're going to be good, but it's time for them to fulfill their potential. We've had three great regular seasons, but it's time to take the next step

    You're right, I don't like it.  You know me too well  ;).  So basically what you're saying is that the regular season is relatively pointless?  Winning two out of three E8 regular season titles, reaching the second round of the NCAA's, reaching #7 ranking in the nation, and an ECAC title last year doesn't matter?  Yes, I will admit IC's postseason struggles need to be improved upon but it's not like they haven't experienced any success.   They have the most wins in the East Region over the past three years:

    Ithaca - 61
    Medaille - 60
    PLattsburgh - 56
    SUNY IT - 56
    Fisher - 56
    St. Lawrence - 55
    Stevens - 54
    Nazareth - 51

    Over the past three years Ithaca has jumped from the middle of the East to one of their premier programs in the region.  Would some postseason success be nice? Absolutely, but with or without past or future NCAA/E8 success they have undoubtedly become one of the premier teams in the region.  I guarantee you almost all the teams in the region would trade their past three years for Ithaca's.

    And as for this year, mark it down they will reach 20 wins and will be ranked by the end of the year.  This is their new guard:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHw3ianWB5U
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on September 26, 2010, 12:54:52 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 25, 2010, 01:38:49 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on September 24, 2010, 05:11:48 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 24, 2010, 09:17:27 AM
    E8GUY:

    In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

    There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
    Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

    Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

    Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later.  


    Talked to a Bomber assistant coach and told him jokingly that I expected at least 20 this year. His response: "Come on man, give me a break." The schedule is very tough, even for a Bomber team that figures to have talent.

    Word is Jordan Marcus lost 20 pounds, and Phil Barera gained 20. Both those things figure to be good.

    Bottom line, and Bomber3 will hate this: I really don't care how the team does in the regular season. I mean, I want them to do well, and they probably will. But there's a stigma attached to this program right now, of their own doing. The program, as a whole, has never won an E8 tourney game and hasn't won an NCAA Tourney game since the very early 90's. Does that mean I won't come watch them shoot the lights out in February and be happy when they do? Of course not.

    It does mean that I consider this team talented enough to be one of the Top 4 in the league, and at that point, I want to see them put it together when it matters. They're going to be good, but it's time for them to fulfill their potential. We've had three great regular seasons, but it's time to take the next step

    You're right, I don't like it.  You know me too well  ;).  So basically what you're saying is that the regular season is relatively pointless?  Winning two out of three E8 regular season titles, reaching the second round of the NCAA's, reaching #7 ranking in the nation, and an ECAC title last year doesn't matter?  Yes, I will admit IC's postseason struggles need to be improved upon but it's not like they haven't experienced any success.   They have the most wins in the East Region over the past three years:

    Ithaca - 61
    Medaille - 60
    PLattsburgh - 56
    SUNY IT - 56
    Fisher - 56
    St. Lawrence - 55
    Stevens - 54
    Nazareth - 51

    Over the past three years Ithaca has jumped from the middle of the East to one of their premier programs in the region.  Would some postseason success be nice? Absolutely, but with or without past or future NCAA/E8 success they have undoubtedly become one of the premier teams in the region.  I guarantee you almost all the teams in the region would trade their past three years for Ithaca's.

    And as for this year, mark it down they will reach 20 wins and will be ranked by the end of the year.  This is their new guard:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHw3ianWB5U


    Of course the regular season matters, but after three consecutive years of very high-quality teams flaming out in the postseason, it's not like this is a one-time thing.

    And remember, I'm not asking for a Final Four run here. How about one E8/NCAA Tournament game win? I mean, the regular seasons have been great, but for three years, this team has failed to play to its full potential, and that's disappointing.

    It's frustrating to watch last year's team run Nazareth out of the gym in January, but then lose to them six weeks later.

    Just like it was frustrating that the Golden Flyers were the team that adjusted their play in the 2009 playoffs after the Bombers killed them twice in the regular season.

    Or to watch them lose at home by 20 to a Fisher team they had beaten on the road by double-digits 13 days earlier.

    No-one's saying forget the regular seasons. That 2008-2009 team was special, but no matter how many times I look at the Burton to Cruz alley oop against RIT, I keep thinking about what that team could have, (and frankly should have) done.

    It's not me just picking on the basketball team. It's symptomatic of the entire athletic program. The football team puts together great seasons, but hasn't won an NCAA playoff game since 2003. The Men's Lax team has gone 40-5 in the E8 regular season over the last six years and 4-5 in the conference tournament. Men's soccer hasn't won an E8 tournament in who knows how long, and were lost in the first round numerous times after running the table in the regular season.  Baseball flames out in the regionals all the time.

    I know you think I'm negative, but I'm probably the biggest Bomber fan there is. I hate it when the teams lose. Nothing would please me more than to see the football team win playoff games, or the basketball team make a deep run. And so, when the teams, who we KNOW can do that--like the 2009 Basketball/Lacrosse teams or the 2008 football team, I am going to be hard on them. The program shouldn't be satisfied with a bunch of regular season trophies. They should be striving for more.

    We just built a 60-million dollar athletic and events center. If we're going to make that kind of investment in the athletic dept at the expense of the rest of the college (which I didn't think we should have but that's another issue) then, frankly we should be demanding excellence. We should be questioning why our teams can't win the big games, and why Fisher's football team owns us, and why Cortland's program has passed us completely.

    Remember, "to whom much is given, much is expected"
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: E8GUY on September 26, 2010, 01:26:29 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 24, 2010, 09:17:27 AM
    E8GUY:

    In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

    There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
    Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

    Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

    Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later. 



    That's all fine and I agree, if the only thing we can discuss is 2010 no reason For Ithaca to worry about Elmira at all.  But that is changing.  And interestingly, you discussed Ithaca/Elmira after cutting and pasting a comment I made after discussing the Hartwick program.  Not Elmira.

    I think Torgalski is an excellent fit at Elmira and things are improving there.  I also think best case scenerio at Elmira is become a solid program who can be more of a spoiler.  Hartwick, on the other hand, can become a true force in the league.  Great college town, a basketball tradition, and a young energiic coach who already knows the school and the league.  And just close enough to NYC, NJ, and Long Island to recruit them effectively.

    So yes, I believe these teams are improving and will continue to do so.   And I also think that will make Ithaca's life more difficult.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on September 26, 2010, 04:31:03 PM
    Quote from: E8GUY on September 26, 2010, 01:26:29 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 24, 2010, 09:17:27 AM
    E8GUY:

    In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

    There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
    Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

    Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

    Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later. 



    That's all fine and I agree, if the only thing we can discuss is 2010 no reason For Ithaca to worry about Elmira at all.  But that is changing.  And interestingly, you discussed Ithaca/Elmira after cutting and pasting a comment I made after discussing the Hartwick program.  Not Elmira.

    I think Torgalski is an excellent fit at Elmira and things are improving there.  I also think best case scenerio at Elmira is become a solid program who can be more of a spoiler.  Hartwick, on the other hand, can become a true force in the league.  Great college town, a basketball tradition, and a young energiic coach who already knows the school and the league.  And just close enough to NYC, NJ, and Long Island to recruit them effectively.

    So yes, I believe these teams are improving and will continue to do so.   And I also think that will make Ithaca's life more difficult.


    Hartwick hasn't been much of a threat either.  I don't have the information but I don't think they've beaten more than 1 or 2 teams in the top 4 the past 3 or 4 years.  Yes, they did win an ECAC title but they aren't viewed as much of a threat either.  I expected them to take a bigger step forward last year but it didn't happen, they went from 12 wins to 10.  I didn't see them play last year so I won't speculate too much but as of today everyone in the nation is undefeated and thinks their team is headed for a solid year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on September 26, 2010, 08:58:34 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on September 26, 2010, 12:54:52 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 25, 2010, 01:38:49 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on September 24, 2010, 05:11:48 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 24, 2010, 09:17:27 AM
    E8GUY:

    In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

    There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
    Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

    Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

    Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later.  


    Talked to a Bomber assistant coach and told him jokingly that I expected at least 20 this year. His response: "Come on man, give me a break." The schedule is very tough, even for a Bomber team that figures to have talent.

    Word is Jordan Marcus lost 20 pounds, and Phil Barera gained 20. Both those things figure to be good.

    Bottom line, and Bomber3 will hate this: I really don't care how the team does in the regular season. I mean, I want them to do well, and they probably will. But there's a stigma attached to this program right now, of their own doing. The program, as a whole, has never won an E8 tourney game and hasn't won an NCAA Tourney game since the very early 90's. Does that mean I won't come watch them shoot the lights out in February and be happy when they do? Of course not.

    It does mean that I consider this team talented enough to be one of the Top 4 in the league, and at that point, I want to see them put it together when it matters. They're going to be good, but it's time for them to fulfill their potential. We've had three great regular seasons, but it's time to take the next step

    You're right, I don't like it.  You know me too well  ;).  So basically what you're saying is that the regular season is relatively pointless?  Winning two out of three E8 regular season titles, reaching the second round of the NCAA's, reaching #7 ranking in the nation, and an ECAC title last year doesn't matter?  Yes, I will admit IC's postseason struggles need to be improved upon but it's not like they haven't experienced any success.   They have the most wins in the East Region over the past three years:

    Ithaca - 61
    Medaille - 60
    PLattsburgh - 56
    SUNY IT - 56
    Fisher - 56
    St. Lawrence - 55
    Stevens - 54
    Nazareth - 51

    Over the past three years Ithaca has jumped from the middle of the East to one of their premier programs in the region.  Would some postseason success be nice? Absolutely, but with or without past or future NCAA/E8 success they have undoubtedly become one of the premier teams in the region.  I guarantee you almost all the teams in the region would trade their past three years for Ithaca's.

    And as for this year, mark it down they will reach 20 wins and will be ranked by the end of the year.  This is their new guard:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHw3ianWB5U


    Of course the regular season matters, but after three consecutive years of very high-quality teams flaming out in the postseason, it's not like this is a one-time thing.

    And remember, I'm not asking for a Final Four run here. How about one E8/NCAA Tournament game win? I mean, the regular seasons have been great, but for three years, this team has failed to play to its full potential, and that's disappointing.

    It's frustrating to watch last year's team run Nazareth out of the gym in January, but then lose to them six weeks later.

    Just like it was frustrating that the Golden Flyers were the team that adjusted their play in the 2009 playoffs after the Bombers killed them twice in the regular season.

    Or to watch them lose at home by 20 to a Fisher team they had beaten on the road by double-digits 13 days earlier.

    No-one's saying forget the regular seasons. That 2008-2009 team was special, but no matter how many times I look at the Burton to Cruz alley oop against RIT, I keep thinking about what that team could have, (and frankly should have) done.

    It's not me just picking on the basketball team. It's symptomatic of the entire athletic program. The football team puts together great seasons, but hasn't won an NCAA playoff game since 2003. The Men's Lax team has gone 40-5 in the E8 regular season over the last six years and 4-5 in the conference tournament. Men's soccer hasn't won an E8 tournament in who knows how long, and were lost in the first round numerous times after running the table in the regular season.  Baseball flames out in the regionals all the time.

    I know you think I'm negative, but I'm probably the biggest Bomber fan there is. I hate it when the teams lose. Nothing would please me more than to see the football team win playoff games, or the basketball team make a deep run. And so, when the teams, who we KNOW can do that--like the 2009 Basketball/Lacrosse teams or the 2008 football team, I am going to be hard on them. The program shouldn't be satisfied with a bunch of regular season trophies. They should be striving for more.

    We just built a 60-million dollar athletic and events center. If we're going to make that kind of investment in the athletic dept at the expense of the rest of the college (which I didn't think we should have but that's another issue) then, frankly we should be demanding excellence. We should be questioning why our teams can't win the big games, and why Fisher's football team owns us, and why Cortland's program has passed us completely.

    Remember, "to whom much is given, much is expected"

    Ok couple things here.  The 2009-2010 Bomber basketball team might not have won a game but they earned a bye to the second round with their performance in the regular season.  I know they didn't win a game but technically they were one of the last 32 teams.  Random side note; I think the bye actually hurt that team.  They probably would have been better off facing a lesser talented team in the first round and get the "haven't won a playoff game monkey off their backs" and gone from there after just losing to Nazareth.  I think 3 of 4 teams that got a bye lost in the second round that year (it was at least 2).  Look at the Big East coaches trying to do away with the bye/double bye in the Big East tourney - they don't like having the games off when their opponents are staying sharp and playing the day before.  But I digress...

    In regard to the multiple programs postseason failures -- it is not easy to win NCAA games.  Plain and simple.  Football only has 32 teams in the playoffs so only 16 programs will win a game.  With 240+ programs in D3 football only about 6% of programs will win an NCAA game in one season. This correlates to a win about every 15 years; which it just proves how hard it is.  With basketball there are 330+ teams and 32 teams will win NCAA games, which correlates to about 10% and a win per decade.  I'm not familiar with Lacrosse so I won't speculate but my guess is
    it's along the same lines. 

    I know Ithaca's athletics are held to a higher standard and I am not condoning settling for mediocrity but I don't think losing a few playoff games necessarily means something is wrong.  My theory is that wins are not easy to come by and perhaps some Ithaca teams spoiled the fan base. 

    The athletics and events center is a needed addition to the campus and will only add to the prominence of the athletics department.  How do you want Ithaca to be the best and not have the top of the line facilities?  If you want the basketball, football, baseball, and lacrosse programs to meet your standards how can you question building this facility?  There is no such thing as free lunch and you can't have your cake and eat it too.  If you want them to maintain their athletic excellence you need to provide the facilities for the athletes.  Look how Fisher transformed their campus and now look at their programs.  The football center is outdated, Hill Center is 50 years old, football/softball/baseball teams have to commute 3 miles to Cornell to use their indoor facilities, and basketball/baseball/softball often have to practice at 6 am in the second semester to get in the gym.  Also if I'm not mistaken, the majority of the $60 million came from private donations and external grants.  Also, despite the postseason issues Ithaca still placed first in the Empire 8 commissioner's cup last year and is one of the only teams to be ranked in the top 25 of every poll of the Division 3 Director's Cup.  Ithaca finished 21st to Cortland's 17th place last year so it's not like they are head and shoulders above IC.  Overall, the athletics center will be a much needed addition to the campus.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 27, 2010, 02:06:48 PM
    WOW looks like we are sizzling here. Not one pratice has taken place and many definitives being mentioned. This sounds like my colleagues at work.. engineers speaking. We never take the unknown into account..  Did someone have to mention the Burton to Cruz alley oop!!! Keep my Tigers out of the discussion, we need to stay under the radar, which is not difficult for us.  All great stuff, lets remember mots of our games are played against one another, and that could be an false reading every year, one way or the other.  You uys discuss winning big one night and then losing to the same team days later. I believe that has to do with familiarity and coaches. The top 5 teams... IC, RIT, Stevens, Fisher, and Naz, have pretty much knocked each other off consistantly over the last few years.. ( discount Stevens two years ago-they were horrible). I think you will see the same this year from IC RIT and Fisher. Naz has to have some recruits to compete with those 3, and I think even with a recruit or two Stevens is at the bottom again. I see a 3 team race and a close race for 4th.. Naz (with recruites)...Hartwick with a more teamlike approach..  Utica ( if recruit info is correct) and Elmira, Alfred and Stevens bringing up the rear. remeber I don't have a hold onn the recruiting and maybeMichael Jordan II is going to Alfred. so lets keep that in mind. I think IC holds the edge,  but will certainly lose at least 3 league games, because that's the way the league is built. Probably Fisher 2 because of Korny and the home court calls they get... Hopefully RIT 3rd.  If we keep our rotation consistant. There is certainly a good argument to playing tough non conference, because that's the caliber you are going to face in the NCAA if you get there.  I can't imagine which way this banter will go once pratice starts.. BUT ;)       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on September 27, 2010, 08:03:50 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on September 27, 2010, 02:06:48 PM
    WOW looks like we are sizzling here. Not one pratice has taken place and many definitives being mentioned. This sounds like my colleagues at work.. engineers speaking. We never take the unknown into account..  Did someone have to mention the Burton to Cruz alley oop!!! Keep my Tigers out of the discussion, we need to stay under the radar, which is not difficult for us.  All great stuff, lets remember mots of our games are played against one another, and that could be an false reading every year, one way or the other.  You uys discuss winning big one night and then losing to the same team days later. I believe that has to do with familiarity and coaches. The top 5 teams... IC, RIT, Stevens, Fisher, and Naz, have pretty much knocked each other off consistantly over the last few years.. ( discount Stevens two years ago-they were horrible). I think you will see the same this year from IC RIT and Fisher. Naz has to have some recruits to compete with those 3, and I think even with a recruit or two Stevens is at the bottom again. I see a 3 team race and a close race for 4th.. Naz (with recruites)...Hartwick with a more teamlike approach..  Utica ( if recruit info is correct) and Elmira, Alfred and Stevens bringing up the rear. remeber I don't have a hold onn the recruiting and maybeMichael Jordan II is going to Alfred. so lets keep that in mind. I think IC holds the edge,  but will certainly lose at least 3 league games, because that's the way the league is built. Probably Fisher 2 because of Korny and the home court calls they get... Hopefully RIT 3rd.  If we keep our rotation consistant. There is certainly a good argument to playing tough non conference, because that's the caliber you are going to face in the NCAA if you get there.  I can't imagine which way this banter will go once pratice starts.. BUT ;)        

    As per your request  ;)....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mXBEUMK0qI
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on September 28, 2010, 04:58:19 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 26, 2010, 08:58:34 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on September 26, 2010, 12:54:52 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 25, 2010, 01:38:49 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on September 24, 2010, 05:11:48 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 24, 2010, 09:17:27 AM
    E8GUY:

    In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

    There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
    Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

    Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

    Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later.  


    Talked to a Bomber assistant coach and told him jokingly that I expected at least 20 this year. His response: "Come on man, give me a break." The schedule is very tough, even for a Bomber team that figures to have talent.

    Word is Jordan Marcus lost 20 pounds, and Phil Barera gained 20. Both those things figure to be good.

    Bottom line, and Bomber3 will hate this: I really don't care how the team does in the regular season. I mean, I want them to do well, and they probably will. But there's a stigma attached to this program right now, of their own doing. The program, as a whole, has never won an E8 tourney game and hasn't won an NCAA Tourney game since the very early 90's. Does that mean I won't come watch them shoot the lights out in February and be happy when they do? Of course not.

    It does mean that I consider this team talented enough to be one of the Top 4 in the league, and at that point, I want to see them put it together when it matters. They're going to be good, but it's time for them to fulfill their potential. We've had three great regular seasons, but it's time to take the next step

    You're right, I don't like it.  You know me too well  ;).  So basically what you're saying is that the regular season is relatively pointless?  Winning two out of three E8 regular season titles, reaching the second round of the NCAA's, reaching #7 ranking in the nation, and an ECAC title last year doesn't matter?  Yes, I will admit IC's postseason struggles need to be improved upon but it's not like they haven't experienced any success.   They have the most wins in the East Region over the past three years:

    Ithaca - 61
    Medaille - 60
    PLattsburgh - 56
    SUNY IT - 56
    Fisher - 56
    St. Lawrence - 55
    Stevens - 54
    Nazareth - 51

    Over the past three years Ithaca has jumped from the middle of the East to one of their premier programs in the region.  Would some postseason success be nice? Absolutely, but with or without past or future NCAA/E8 success they have undoubtedly become one of the premier teams in the region.  I guarantee you almost all the teams in the region would trade their past three years for Ithaca's.

    And as for this year, mark it down they will reach 20 wins and will be ranked by the end of the year.  This is their new guard:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHw3ianWB5U


    Of course the regular season matters, but after three consecutive years of very high-quality teams flaming out in the postseason, it's not like this is a one-time thing.

    And remember, I'm not asking for a Final Four run here. How about one E8/NCAA Tournament game win? I mean, the regular seasons have been great, but for three years, this team has failed to play to its full potential, and that's disappointing.

    It's frustrating to watch last year's team run Nazareth out of the gym in January, but then lose to them six weeks later.

    Just like it was frustrating that the Golden Flyers were the team that adjusted their play in the 2009 playoffs after the Bombers killed them twice in the regular season.

    Or to watch them lose at home by 20 to a Fisher team they had beaten on the road by double-digits 13 days earlier.

    No-one's saying forget the regular seasons. That 2008-2009 team was special, but no matter how many times I look at the Burton to Cruz alley oop against RIT, I keep thinking about what that team could have, (and frankly should have) done.

    It's not me just picking on the basketball team. It's symptomatic of the entire athletic program. The football team puts together great seasons, but hasn't won an NCAA playoff game since 2003. The Men's Lax team has gone 40-5 in the E8 regular season over the last six years and 4-5 in the conference tournament. Men's soccer hasn't won an E8 tournament in who knows how long, and were lost in the first round numerous times after running the table in the regular season.  Baseball flames out in the regionals all the time.

    I know you think I'm negative, but I'm probably the biggest Bomber fan there is. I hate it when the teams lose. Nothing would please me more than to see the football team win playoff games, or the basketball team make a deep run. And so, when the teams, who we KNOW can do that--like the 2009 Basketball/Lacrosse teams or the 2008 football team, I am going to be hard on them. The program shouldn't be satisfied with a bunch of regular season trophies. They should be striving for more.

    We just built a 60-million dollar athletic and events center. If we're going to make that kind of investment in the athletic dept at the expense of the rest of the college (which I didn't think we should have but that's another issue) then, frankly we should be demanding excellence. We should be questioning why our teams can't win the big games, and why Fisher's football team owns us, and why Cortland's program has passed us completely.

    Remember, "to whom much is given, much is expected"

    Ok couple things here.  The 2009-2010 Bomber basketball team might not have won a game but they earned a bye to the second round with their performance in the regular season.  I know they didn't win a game but technically they were one of the last 32 teams.  Random side note; I think the bye actually hurt that team.  They probably would have been better off facing a lesser talented team in the first round and get the "haven't won a playoff game monkey off their backs" and gone from there after just losing to Nazareth.  I think 3 of 4 teams that got a bye lost in the second round that year (it was at least 2).  Look at the Big East coaches trying to do away with the bye/double bye in the Big East tourney - they don't like having the games off when their opponents are staying sharp and playing the day before.  But I digress...

    In regard to the multiple programs postseason failures -- it is not easy to win NCAA games.  Plain and simple.  Football only has 32 teams in the playoffs so only 16 programs will win a game.  With 240+ programs in D3 football only about 6% of programs will win an NCAA game in one season. This correlates to a win about every 15 years; which it just proves how hard it is.  With basketball there are 330+ teams and 32 teams will win NCAA games, which correlates to about 10% and a win per decade.  I'm not familiar with Lacrosse so I won't speculate but my guess is
    it's along the same lines. 

    I know Ithaca's athletics are held to a higher standard and I am not condoning settling for mediocrity but I don't think losing a few playoff games necessarily means something is wrong.  My theory is that wins are not easy to come by and perhaps some Ithaca teams spoiled the fan base. 

    The athletics and events center is a needed addition to the campus and will only add to the prominence of the athletics department.  How do you want Ithaca to be the best and not have the top of the line facilities?  If you want the basketball, football, baseball, and lacrosse programs to meet your standards how can you question building this facility?  There is no such thing as free lunch and you can't have your cake and eat it too.  If you want them to maintain their athletic excellence you need to provide the facilities for the athletes.  Look how Fisher transformed their campus and now look at their programs.  The football center is outdated, Hill Center is 50 years old, football/softball/baseball teams have to commute 3 miles to Cornell to use their indoor facilities, and basketball/baseball/softball often have to practice at 6 am in the second semester to get in the gym.  Also if I'm not mistaken, the majority of the $60 million came from private donations and external grants.  Also, despite the postseason issues Ithaca still placed first in the Empire 8 commissioner's cup last year and is one of the only teams to be ranked in the top 25 of every poll of the Division 3 Director's Cup.  Ithaca finished 21st to Cortland's 17th place last year so it's not like they are head and shoulders above IC.  Overall, the athletics center will be a much needed addition to the campus.

    Here's the problem with your postseason assessment: Often times, the Bombers lose in the conference tournaments to the same teams they beat in the playoffs. That's telling. That's what the lacrosse team and soccer teams do. That's what the '09 basketball team did. As for the football team in 2008, zero people outside of Curry gave them a chance in that game. Baseball's been the #1 team in the regionals and lost. It's harder to win postseason games, but Naz, Fisher and Cortland seem to do it.

    Yes, this year the Director's Cup gap was small. But Cortland's finished 3rd in recent years. They've won national titles in lacrosse and gone to national titles in baseball. They've won NCAA playoff games in football and conference playoff games in basketball.

    Yeah, the sports facilities are outdated. So is the Park School. So why aren't we soliciting donations for that? Why didn't we say, "Ok, donate to the A&E center, but please donate to our general fund, or contribute to the Park Foundation."?That's only the school's flagship academic program, and they're short on space and professors. But hey, let's hit people up for an indoor track! The college is facing a lawsuit because they're not compliant with the ADA, but we better have a place for field hockey to play. Federal laws and academics definitely should come behind that at a $40,000 a year college.

    Fisher got money from the Bills. Cortland gets money from the state. Ithaca is on their own, and there were (and still are) more important things for the school to collect money for than athletic facilities. But since we did put that money into athletics, they should be held accountable for their performances.

    I'm a big sports fan, and the biggest Bomber fan you'll meet, but we're a D-III school. The athletic program is a nice addition to the school, but at the end of the day, prioritizing athletics over the overall academic experience at a D-III school is flat out the wrong decision. I could care less if the football or basketball team goes in the toilet due to outdated facilities. Better them than the Communications school. (Or any other school on campus)

    But we're stuck with it. So no, I'm not going to take it easy on them. As I said before "To whom much is given, much is expected"
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on September 29, 2010, 12:24:51 PM
    Bomber 7988 etc.//////   WEL PUT. You make a ton of sense. :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on September 30, 2010, 10:11:03 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on September 28, 2010, 04:58:19 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 26, 2010, 08:58:34 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on September 26, 2010, 12:54:52 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 25, 2010, 01:38:49 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on September 24, 2010, 05:11:48 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 24, 2010, 09:17:27 AM
    E8GUY:

    In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

    There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
    Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

    Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

    Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later.  


    Talked to a Bomber assistant coach and told him jokingly that I expected at least 20 this year. His response: "Come on man, give me a break." The schedule is very tough, even for a Bomber team that figures to have talent.

    Word is Jordan Marcus lost 20 pounds, and Phil Barera gained 20. Both those things figure to be good.

    Bottom line, and Bomber3 will hate this: I really don't care how the team does in the regular season. I mean, I want them to do well, and they probably will. But there's a stigma attached to this program right now, of their own doing. The program, as a whole, has never won an E8 tourney game and hasn't won an NCAA Tourney game since the very early 90's. Does that mean I won't come watch them shoot the lights out in February and be happy when they do? Of course not.

    It does mean that I consider this team talented enough to be one of the Top 4 in the league, and at that point, I want to see them put it together when it matters. They're going to be good, but it's time for them to fulfill their potential. We've had three great regular seasons, but it's time to take the next step

    You're right, I don't like it.  You know me too well  ;).  So basically what you're saying is that the regular season is relatively pointless?  Winning two out of three E8 regular season titles, reaching the second round of the NCAA's, reaching #7 ranking in the nation, and an ECAC title last year doesn't matter?  Yes, I will admit IC's postseason struggles need to be improved upon but it's not like they haven't experienced any success.   They have the most wins in the East Region over the past three years:

    Ithaca - 61
    Medaille - 60
    PLattsburgh - 56
    SUNY IT - 56
    Fisher - 56
    St. Lawrence - 55
    Stevens - 54
    Nazareth - 51

    Over the past three years Ithaca has jumped from the middle of the East to one of their premier programs in the region.  Would some postseason success be nice? Absolutely, but with or without past or future NCAA/E8 success they have undoubtedly become one of the premier teams in the region.  I guarantee you almost all the teams in the region would trade their past three years for Ithaca's.

    And as for this year, mark it down they will reach 20 wins and will be ranked by the end of the year.  This is their new guard:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHw3ianWB5U


    Of course the regular season matters, but after three consecutive years of very high-quality teams flaming out in the postseason, it's not like this is a one-time thing.

    And remember, I'm not asking for a Final Four run here. How about one E8/NCAA Tournament game win? I mean, the regular seasons have been great, but for three years, this team has failed to play to its full potential, and that's disappointing.

    It's frustrating to watch last year's team run Nazareth out of the gym in January, but then lose to them six weeks later.

    Just like it was frustrating that the Golden Flyers were the team that adjusted their play in the 2009 playoffs after the Bombers killed them twice in the regular season.

    Or to watch them lose at home by 20 to a Fisher team they had beaten on the road by double-digits 13 days earlier.

    No-one's saying forget the regular seasons. That 2008-2009 team was special, but no matter how many times I look at the Burton to Cruz alley oop against RIT, I keep thinking about what that team could have, (and frankly should have) done.

    It's not me just picking on the basketball team. It's symptomatic of the entire athletic program. The football team puts together great seasons, but hasn't won an NCAA playoff game since 2003. The Men's Lax team has gone 40-5 in the E8 regular season over the last six years and 4-5 in the conference tournament. Men's soccer hasn't won an E8 tournament in who knows how long, and were lost in the first round numerous times after running the table in the regular season.  Baseball flames out in the regionals all the time.

    I know you think I'm negative, but I'm probably the biggest Bomber fan there is. I hate it when the teams lose. Nothing would please me more than to see the football team win playoff games, or the basketball team make a deep run. And so, when the teams, who we KNOW can do that--like the 2009 Basketball/Lacrosse teams or the 2008 football team, I am going to be hard on them. The program shouldn't be satisfied with a bunch of regular season trophies. They should be striving for more.

    We just built a 60-million dollar athletic and events center. If we're going to make that kind of investment in the athletic dept at the expense of the rest of the college (which I didn't think we should have but that's another issue) then, frankly we should be demanding excellence. We should be questioning why our teams can't win the big games, and why Fisher's football team owns us, and why Cortland's program has passed us completely.

    Remember, "to whom much is given, much is expected"

    Ok couple things here.  The 2009-2010 Bomber basketball team might not have won a game but they earned a bye to the second round with their performance in the regular season.  I know they didn't win a game but technically they were one of the last 32 teams.  Random side note; I think the bye actually hurt that team.  They probably would have been better off facing a lesser talented team in the first round and get the "haven't won a playoff game monkey off their backs" and gone from there after just losing to Nazareth.  I think 3 of 4 teams that got a bye lost in the second round that year (it was at least 2).  Look at the Big East coaches trying to do away with the bye/double bye in the Big East tourney - they don't like having the games off when their opponents are staying sharp and playing the day before.  But I digress...

    In regard to the multiple programs postseason failures -- it is not easy to win NCAA games.  Plain and simple.  Football only has 32 teams in the playoffs so only 16 programs will win a game.  With 240+ programs in D3 football only about 6% of programs will win an NCAA game in one season. This correlates to a win about every 15 years; which it just proves how hard it is.  With basketball there are 330+ teams and 32 teams will win NCAA games, which correlates to about 10% and a win per decade.  I'm not familiar with Lacrosse so I won't speculate but my guess is
    it's along the same lines. 

    I know Ithaca's athletics are held to a higher standard and I am not condoning settling for mediocrity but I don't think losing a few playoff games necessarily means something is wrong.  My theory is that wins are not easy to come by and perhaps some Ithaca teams spoiled the fan base. 

    The athletics and events center is a needed addition to the campus and will only add to the prominence of the athletics department.  How do you want Ithaca to be the best and not have the top of the line facilities?  If you want the basketball, football, baseball, and lacrosse programs to meet your standards how can you question building this facility?  There is no such thing as free lunch and you can't have your cake and eat it too.  If you want them to maintain their athletic excellence you need to provide the facilities for the athletes.  Look how Fisher transformed their campus and now look at their programs.  The football center is outdated, Hill Center is 50 years old, football/softball/baseball teams have to commute 3 miles to Cornell to use their indoor facilities, and basketball/baseball/softball often have to practice at 6 am in the second semester to get in the gym.  Also if I'm not mistaken, the majority of the $60 million came from private donations and external grants.  Also, despite the postseason issues Ithaca still placed first in the Empire 8 commissioner's cup last year and is one of the only teams to be ranked in the top 25 of every poll of the Division 3 Director's Cup.  Ithaca finished 21st to Cortland's 17th place last year so it's not like they are head and shoulders above IC.  Overall, the athletics center will be a much needed addition to the campus.

    Here's the problem with your postseason assessment: Often times, the Bombers lose in the conference tournaments to the same teams they beat in the playoffs. That's telling. That's what the lacrosse team and soccer teams do. That's what the '09 basketball team did. As for the football team in 2008, zero people outside of Curry gave them a chance in that game. Baseball's been the #1 team in the regionals and lost. It's harder to win postseason games, but Naz, Fisher and Cortland seem to do it.

    Yes, this year the Director's Cup gap was small. But Cortland's finished 3rd in recent years. They've won national titles in lacrosse and gone to national titles in baseball. They've won NCAA playoff games in football and conference playoff games in basketball.

    Yeah, the sports facilities are outdated. So is the Park School. So why aren't we soliciting donations for that? Why didn't we say, "Ok, donate to the A&E center, but please donate to our general fund, or contribute to the Park Foundation."?That's only the school's flagship academic program, and they're short on space and professors. But hey, let's hit people up for an indoor track! The college is facing a lawsuit because they're not compliant with the ADA, but we better have a place for field hockey to play. Federal laws and academics definitely should come behind that at a $40,000 a year college.

    Fisher got money from the Bills. Cortland gets money from the state. Ithaca is on their own, and there were (and still are) more important things for the school to collect money for than athletic facilities. But since we did put that money into athletics, they should be held accountable for their performances.

    I'm a big sports fan, and the biggest Bomber fan you'll meet, but we're a D-III school. The athletic program is a nice addition to the school, but at the end of the day, prioritizing athletics over the overall academic experience at a D-III school is flat out the wrong decision. I could care less if the football or basketball team goes in the toilet due to outdated facilities. Better them than the Communications school. (Or any other school on campus)

    But we're stuck with it. So no, I'm not going to take it easy on them. As I said before "To whom much is given, much is expected"
    Yes, the college is spending a great deal of money on the athletics center but you are conveniently excluding a number of large academic and student expenditures the college has undertaken the past 5 years:

    $20+ million brand new LEED certified business school that I had the pleasure of learning in for 1.5 years.  It is a spectacular building and was a much needed addition to the campus.

    $10+ million Dillingham renovation for the college's top-notch theatre and music schools

    $20+ million to build the state of the art administration building (Peggy Williams Building)

    $45+ million to purchase the Circles apartments

    The Park School may not be state of the art anymore but it is certainly not outdated and serves its purpose.  In my opinion it would be a waste of resources to build a new Park School.  This athletics center is much needed and they are not sacrificing any academic funding through its construction.  Look at other area schools and their facilities;  U of R has a great full service athletics building, Hamilton has a top notch indoor facility, Cortland and Fisher have both significantly expanded their facilities, and Hartwick just completely renovated their basketball facilities.  The athletics center is just keeping up with the Joneses.  The basketball program has probably the worst facilities in the E9, the pool is outdated, teams have to share indoor facilities between about 6 programs at times, and there are limited intramural facilities.  Anyway you put it this was not an extravagant expenditure in my opinion and it is completely justified.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on October 01, 2010, 04:08:02 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 30, 2010, 10:11:03 PM

    Yes, the college is spending a great deal of money on the athletics center but you are conveniently excluding a number of large academic and student expenditures the college has undertaken the past 5 years:

    $20+ million brand new LEED certified business school that I had the pleasure of learning in for 1.5 years.  It is a spectacular building and was a much needed addition to the campus.

    $10+ million Dillingham renovation for the college's top-notch theatre and music schools

    $20+ million to build the state of the art administration building (Peggy Williams Building)

    $45+ million to purchase the Circles apartments

    The Park School may not be state of the art anymore but it is certainly not outdated and serves its purpose.  In my opinion it would be a waste of resources to build a new Park School.  This athletics center is much needed and they are not sacrificing any academic funding through its construction.  Look at other area schools and their facilities;  U of R has a great full service athletics building, Hamilton has a top notch indoor facility, Cortland and Fisher have both significantly expanded their facilities, and Hartwick just completely renovated their basketball facilities.  The athletics center is just keeping up with the Joneses.  The basketball program has probably the worst facilities in the E9, the pool is outdated, teams have to share indoor facilities between about 6 programs at times, and there are limited intramural facilities.  Anyway you put it this was not an extravagant expenditure in my opinion and it is completely justified.

    That's certainly true, but here's my question: How much will the A&E center help all our teams? Does it help football? Aren't their locker rooms still going to be in the art building? Baseball? Wrestling? Won't they still only have one full-time paid coach? Basketball? Won't the gym still be a disaster? I know it can be a bit of addition by subtraction when it comes to overcrowded indoor facilities, but I just question if, overall, it will have the impact we want it to.

    Here's my thinking:

    1) There's only so many athletes on campus, and as such, only a small amount who benefit from the A&E center.

    2) There's no guarantee that improved facilities will help the athletic program. It's a possibility, but there's not as direct a correlation as there is to improved facilities for students helping academic performance.
    2a) Even if there is an impact, how great can it be? We're, as you pointed out, already in the top group of the Director Cup Standings and we win the E8 cup every year. There's only so much higher to go
    2b) That same argument could be said for Park–that we're already close to the top–but that leaves out a critical part of the equation: How does the improvement help the college? If the basketball team has great facilities and goes to the Final 4 as a result, does the college see any benefit from that?

    The impact of having good teams at colleges and it's impact on enrollment has been studied, and largely debunked. It's term is "The Flutie Effect". And it's only going to be less impactfull for a D-III school with less media coverage of their sports. It may help recruiting, but that's a very small subset of people every year. A non-athlete student living in Rochester is not going to pick Fisher over Naz because the football stadium is nicer. Nor do I think big-time donors to a D-III school care about athletic facilities as much as they do academics. Nor is a kid going to pick IC because the new A&E center means better resources for the intramural floor hockey team he wants to join (and if he is, that kid has issues)

    That's not to say we shouldn't spend any money on athletics. But that 65 million is 15 million less than it cost to upgrade the administration buildings, business, theater and music schools. Less money + bigger impact = better investment.

    I don't know what it would cost to upgrade park, but I suspect it would be much less than 65 million. I also suspect it would impact more people–there are 1,350 park students–and therefore, more alumni, etc. Which makes it a better investment which should have been prioritized.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: slickyquick on October 02, 2010, 11:39:15 AM
    I'll have to agree with you Bombers as far as that kid from Rochester who doesn't get two hoots about athletics BUT...

    1) Any time athletics does well, it gives the school free and positive publicity
    Example: What if a kid from Pittsburgh sees in the Post Gazette (Pittsburgh's paper) that Maravich has been successful at Ithaca and it might actually get some interest from that area. Obviously not to the extent of school like Gonzaga and Butler but it still will help.

    2) As far as alums donating money to the based off of academics, I think it differs from school to school. At certain schools athletic alums are the ones that still feel the most connections thru teammates, coaches, and players. Take Homecoming weekend for example, who do you see on campus the most, my best guess would be former athletes.

    3) At a school like Ithaca, it looks like (doing minor research and estimating things) there are about 6,000 undergrads at the school and roughly 1,000 student athletes (might be a little high). That's 1/6th of the student body. That's a pretty high percentage if you ask me. I would imagine numbers are somewhat similar and maybe higher at other Empire 8 schools. Athletics play a very important role in kids' decisions and retention (huge in this economy) at the school. On top of that, new fitness facilities are always helpful because believe it or not, that's important for prospective students.

    As much as the people in academia want to say kids come to the school because of academics, if it wasn't for these coaches in the Empire 8 (and most conferences for that matter) these kids wouldn't be at their respective schools.
       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on October 02, 2010, 05:03:38 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 01, 2010, 04:08:02 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on September 30, 2010, 10:11:03 PM

    Yes, the college is spending a great deal of money on the athletics center but you are conveniently excluding a number of large academic and student expenditures the college has undertaken the past 5 years:

    $20+ million brand new LEED certified business school that I had the pleasure of learning in for 1.5 years.  It is a spectacular building and was a much needed addition to the campus.

    $10+ million Dillingham renovation for the college's top-notch theatre and music schools

    $20+ million to build the state of the art administration building (Peggy Williams Building)

    $45+ million to purchase the Circles apartments

    The Park School may not be state of the art anymore but it is certainly not outdated and serves its purpose.  In my opinion it would be a waste of resources to build a new Park School.  This athletics center is much needed and they are not sacrificing any academic funding through its construction.  Look at other area schools and their facilities;  U of R has a great full service athletics building, Hamilton has a top notch indoor facility, Cortland and Fisher have both significantly expanded their facilities, and Hartwick just completely renovated their basketball facilities.  The athletics center is just keeping up with the Joneses.  The basketball program has probably the worst facilities in the E9, the pool is outdated, teams have to share indoor facilities between about 6 programs at times, and there are limited intramural facilities.  Anyway you put it this was not an extravagant expenditure in my opinion and it is completely justified.

    That's certainly true, but here's my question: How much will the A&E center help all our teams? Does it help football? Aren't their locker rooms still going to be in the art building? Baseball? Wrestling? Won't they still only have one full-time paid coach? Basketball? Won't the gym still be a disaster? I know it can be a bit of addition by subtraction when it comes to overcrowded indoor facilities, but I just question if, overall, it will have the impact we want it to.

    Here's my thinking:

    1) There's only so many athletes on campus, and as such, only a small amount who benefit from the A&E center.

    2) There's no guarantee that improved facilities will help the athletic program. It's a possibility, but there's not as direct a correlation as there is to improved facilities for students helping academic performance.
    2a) Even if there is an impact, how great can it be? We're, as you pointed out, already in the top group of the Director Cup Standings and we win the E8 cup every year. There's only so much higher to go
    2b) That same argument could be said for Park–that we're already close to the top–but that leaves out a critical part of the equation: How does the improvement help the college? If the basketball team has great facilities and goes to the Final 4 as a result, does the college see any benefit from that?

    The impact of having good teams at colleges and it's impact on enrollment has been studied, and largely debunked. It's term is "The Flutie Effect". And it's only going to be less impactfull for a D-III school with less media coverage of their sports. It may help recruiting, but that's a very small subset of people every year. A non-athlete student living in Rochester is not going to pick Fisher over Naz because the football stadium is nicer. Nor do I think big-time donors to a D-III school care about athletic facilities as much as they do academics. Nor is a kid going to pick IC because the new A&E center means better resources for the intramural floor hockey team he wants to join (and if he is, that kid has issues)

    That's not to say we shouldn't spend any money on athletics. But that 65 million is 15 million less than it cost to upgrade the administration buildings, business, theater and music schools. Less money + bigger impact = better investment.

    I don't know what it would cost to upgrade park, but I suspect it would be much less than 65 million. I also suspect it would impact more people–there are 1,350 park students–and therefore, more alumni, etc. Which makes it a better investment which should have been prioritized.


    Great post Bombers. And what you're leaving out is that Ithaca is a campus that largely does not care about the athletics. The attendance numbers at all-non Cortaca/Homecoming events speak to that.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on October 05, 2010, 05:10:45 PM
    Quote from: maxpower on October 02, 2010, 05:03:38 PM
    Great post Bombers. And what you're leaving out is that Ithaca is a campus that largely does not care about the athletics. The attendance numbers at all-non Cortaca/Homecoming events speak to that.

    Pep was curious about attendance at the 'wick-IC football game. The IC website boxscore did not include a number for attendance. A look at the Hartwick website boxscore, however, states that attendance was 500.

    Now 500 is a pretty rounded-off number so Pep is assuming that was a ballpark figure estimated by the Hartwick SID. Was attendance really that low?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on October 05, 2010, 05:17:40 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on October 05, 2010, 05:10:45 PM
    Quote from: maxpower on October 02, 2010, 05:03:38 PM
    Great post Bombers. And what you're leaving out is that Ithaca is a campus that largely does not care about the athletics. The attendance numbers at all-non Cortaca/Homecoming events speak to that.

    Pep was curious about attendance at the 'wick-IC football game. The IC website boxscore did not include a number for attendance. A look at the Hartwick website boxscore, however, states that attendance was 500.

    Now 500 is a pretty rounded-off number so Pep is assuming that was a ballpark figure estimated by the Hartwick SID. Was attendance really that low?



    No. Probably near 2K. But we don't sell tickets (Students and Faculty just show ID and walk in) so there's no way to get a head count
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on October 05, 2010, 05:22:44 PM
    Quote from: slickyquick on October 02, 2010, 11:39:15 AM
    I'll have to agree with you Bombers as far as that kid from Rochester who doesn't get two hoots about athletics BUT...

    1) Any time athletics does well, it gives the school free and positive publicity
    Example: What if a kid from Pittsburgh sees in the Post Gazette (Pittsburgh's paper) that Maravich has been successful at Ithaca and it might actually get some interest from that area. Obviously not to the extent of school like Gonzaga and Butler but it still will help.

    2) As far as alums donating money to the based off of academics, I think it differs from school to school. At certain schools athletic alums are the ones that still feel the most connections thru teammates, coaches, and players. Take Homecoming weekend for example, who do you see on campus the most, my best guess would be former athletes.

    3) At a school like Ithaca, it looks like (doing minor research and estimating things) there are about 6,000 undergrads at the school and roughly 1,000 student athletes (might be a little high). That's 1/6th of the student body. That's a pretty high percentage if you ask me. I would imagine numbers are somewhat similar and maybe higher at other Empire 8 schools. Athletics play a very important role in kids' decisions and retention (huge in this economy) at the school. On top of that, new fitness facilities are always helpful because believe it or not, that's important for prospective students.

    As much as the people in academia want to say kids come to the school because of academics, if it wasn't for these coaches in the Empire 8 (and most conferences for that matter) these kids wouldn't be at their respective schools.
       

    Hmmm....maybe. I think your athlete figure may be high (double-counting track maybe?), and remember, that A&E center doesn't help all of them. I'm not sure, for example, how the football team benefits from this.

    I'm sure athletes come to schools because of athletics. What I'm not sure on is how the quality of athlete will improve thanks to this investment and what, if any, greater impact will a slight improvement in athletics be for the school. Does moving from 20th to 12th in Director's Cup mean anything?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on October 05, 2010, 08:24:00 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on October 05, 2010, 05:10:45 PM
    Quote from: maxpower on October 02, 2010, 05:03:38 PM
    Great post Bombers. And what you're leaving out is that Ithaca is a campus that largely does not care about the athletics. The attendance numbers at all-non Cortaca/Homecoming events speak to that.

    Pep was curious about attendance at the 'wick-IC football game. The IC website boxscore did not include a number for attendance. A look at the Hartwick website boxscore, however, states that attendance was 500.

    Now 500 is a pretty rounded-off number so Pep is assuming that was a ballpark figure estimated by the Hartwick SID. Was attendance really that low?




    When I was in school, 2K was high for a football game... but this was homecoming, part of my caveat... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on October 05, 2010, 08:24:22 PM
    "When I was in school....", jeez I'm startin to sound like pep!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 05, 2010, 08:30:59 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 05, 2010, 05:22:44 PM
    Quote from: slickyquick on October 02, 2010, 11:39:15 AM
    I'll have to agree with you Bombers as far as that kid from Rochester who doesn't get two hoots about athletics BUT...

    1) Any time athletics does well, it gives the school free and positive publicity
    Example: What if a kid from Pittsburgh sees in the Post Gazette (Pittsburgh's paper) that Maravich has been successful at Ithaca and it might actually get some interest from that area. Obviously not to the extent of school like Gonzaga and Butler but it still will help.

    2) As far as alums donating money to the based off of academics, I think it differs from school to school. At certain schools athletic alums are the ones that still feel the most connections thru teammates, coaches, and players. Take Homecoming weekend for example, who do you see on campus the most, my best guess would be former athletes.

    3) At a school like Ithaca, it looks like (doing minor research and estimating things) there are about 6,000 undergrads at the school and roughly 1,000 student athletes (might be a little high). That's 1/6th of the student body. That's a pretty high percentage if you ask me. I would imagine numbers are somewhat similar and maybe higher at other Empire 8 schools. Athletics play a very important role in kids' decisions and retention (huge in this economy) at the school. On top of that, new fitness facilities are always helpful because believe it or not, that's important for prospective students.

    As much as the people in academia want to say kids come to the school because of academics, if it wasn't for these coaches in the Empire 8 (and most conferences for that matter) these kids wouldn't be at their respective schools.
       

    Hmmm....maybe. I think your athlete figure may be high (double-counting track maybe?), and remember, that A&E center doesn't help all of them. I'm not sure, for example, how the football team benefits from this.

    I'm sure athletes come to schools because of athletics. What I'm not sure on is how the quality of athlete will improve thanks to this investment and what, if any, greater impact will a slight improvement in athletics be for the school. Does moving from 20th to 12th in Director's Cup mean anything?

    Does IC have a Physical Education Major? I am assuming an improvement to the facilities for those students would play a roll in the decision making for the new athletics building.

    Honestly, I think it all comes down to prestige of the campus. Regardless of what the building is used for, the more impressive your campus (and IC's is impressive) the more pride that is built in the alumni base (a.k.a. more alumni giving), and the better recruiting tools you have (a.k.a. more tuition). I don't think that is the sole reason for building an athletics facility as impressive as what IC will have, but if you have the money to pay for it, you can find several areas to be improved by it, and the general quality of campus life will increase, why wouldn't you build. Kids go to school for all different reasons, and alumni take pride in and give because of all different reasons. Why not create the most impressive buildings and programs in your reasonable means to cover all your bases.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on October 05, 2010, 08:52:28 PM
    One reason would be that you spend millions of dollars and then hit a recession, have no money left, and start cutting programs.

    This sounds like a joke, or hind-sight-y, but having been at music institutions that like to build buildings, I've noticed that for me it's never the quality of the facility but what you can DO in the facility. When I was at UCSD we had a terrible concert space, but we could use it all the time for whatever we wanted. Then they built a huge, admittedly beautiful new building to impress donors, and they put all the halls on lockdown for signout and approval, etc, and forgot to put a lounge in so we actually had to hang out in a different building. That engendered a lot more bitterness in me as an alumnus than it did pride.

    Not sure if this translates to sports, but what I'm saying is that if you examine the priorities of the students involved, facilities won't always be at the top of the list. In certain extreme cases, like pre-Growney SJF, maybe it's different. But what does the new business building do that Smiddy Hall didn't, besides look and feel impressive?


    EDIT: I worked in the Sports Info department at Ithaca, and my junior year we moved from the really nice Alumni Hall building to the temporary Boardman place. Boardman Place was an over-sized port-o-potty from the outside, but we finally had a separate office for the ASID, it was closer to all the fields/gyms, and the staff was ecstatic about it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on October 06, 2010, 10:51:30 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 05, 2010, 08:30:59 PM

    Does IC have a Physical Education Major? I am assuming an improvement to the facilities for those students would play a roll in the decision making for the new athletics building.

    Honestly, I think it all comes down to prestige of the campus. Regardless of what the building is used for, the more impressive your campus (and IC's is impressive) the more pride that is built in the alumni base (a.k.a. more alumni giving), and the better recruiting tools you have (a.k.a. more tuition). I don't think that is the sole reason for building an athletics facility as impressive as what IC will have, but if you have the money to pay for it, you can find several areas to be improved by it, and the general quality of campus life will increase, why wouldn't you build. Kids go to school for all different reasons, and alumni take pride in and give because of all different reasons. Why not create the most impressive buildings and programs in your reasonable means to cover all your bases.

    I agree with this sentiment. I just believe there is a pecking order, and at a D-III school. athletics comes behind a the top academic program in the school (Sorry Max!).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on October 06, 2010, 07:22:49 PM
    Quote from: maxpower on October 05, 2010, 08:24:22 PM
    "When I was in school....", jeez I'm startin to sound like pep!

    Pep resembles that!  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 07, 2010, 09:56:25 AM
    Quote from: maxpower on October 05, 2010, 08:52:28 PM
    One reason would be that you spend millions of dollars and then hit a recession, have no money left, and start cutting programs.

    This sounds like a joke, or hind-sight-y, but having been at music institutions that like to build buildings, I've noticed that for me it's never the quality of the facility but what you can DO in the facility. When I was at UCSD we had a terrible concert space, but we could use it all the time for whatever we wanted. Then they built a huge, admittedly beautiful new building to impress donors, and they put all the halls on lockdown for signout and approval, etc, and forgot to put a lounge in so we actually had to hang out in a different building. That engendered a lot more bitterness in me as an alumnus than it did pride.

    Not sure if this translates to sports, but what I'm saying is that if you examine the priorities of the students involved, facilities won't always be at the top of the list. In certain extreme cases, like pre-Growney SJF, maybe it's different. But what does the new business building do that Smiddy Hall didn't, besides look and feel impressive?


    EDIT: I worked in the Sports Info department at Ithaca, and my junior year we moved from the really nice Alumni Hall building to the temporary Boardman place. Boardman Place was an over-sized port-o-potty from the outside, but we finally had a separate office for the ASID, it was closer to all the fields/gyms, and the staff was ecstatic about it.

    Valid point Max, I think your side and mine is the conversation IC would have had to discuss when they explored the idea of the new building. Hopefully they have explored both sides and determined that the positives of building outweighed the negatives of not. Otherwise, IC may run into the same situation you described above.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on October 07, 2010, 10:30:28 AM
    Quote from: maxpower on October 05, 2010, 08:52:28 PM
    One reason would be that you spend millions of dollars and then hit a recession, have no money left, and start cutting programs.

    This sounds like a joke, or hind-sight-y, but having been at music institutions that like to build buildings, I've noticed that for me it's never the quality of the facility but what you can DO in the facility. When I was at UCSD we had a terrible concert space, but we could use it all the time for whatever we wanted. Then they built a huge, admittedly beautiful new building to impress donors, and they put all the halls on lockdown for signout and approval, etc, and forgot to put a lounge in so we actually had to hang out in a different building. That engendered a lot more bitterness in me as an alumnus than it did pride.

    Not sure if this translates to sports, but what I'm saying is that if you examine the priorities of the students involved, facilities won't always be at the top of the list. In certain extreme cases, like pre-Growney SJF, maybe it's different. But what does the new business building do that Smiddy Hall didn't, besides look and feel impressive?


    EDIT: I worked in the Sports Info department at Ithaca, and my junior year we moved from the really nice Alumni Hall building to the temporary Boardman place. Boardman Place was an over-sized port-o-potty from the outside, but we finally had a separate office for the ASID, it was closer to all the fields/gyms, and the staff was ecstatic about it.

    Mind if I ask when that was?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on October 08, 2010, 10:07:42 PM
    SP' 03 - SP '06.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on October 18, 2010, 08:57:53 PM
    Bombers opened practice yesterday so their season is officially underway.  This team is loaded and probably has the second most talent of any Bomber team the past 10 years.  I believe Maravich decided not to go out for the team, which is unfortunate for their depth but they should be able to replace him.  Jordan Marcus has slimmed down and as stated previously Barera has beefed up his pencil-thin frame, both of which are great signs.  Cruz has always been in top shape since he arrived back three years ago.  They have at least two solid freshman that should play this year, one a legit center and another that can come in and lock people down.  With Rossi back leading the point this offense could challenge the school record for points per game this year.  IC undoubtedly has the best offense this year in the E9 and their success will probably rest on the defensive end.  With a little more emphasis on that end of the floor this team can be special.

    Their non-conference schedule:

    Hobart
    Grove City
    Behrend/Muskingum
    Oswego
    Cortland
    St. Lawrence
    Oneonta
    Wesley
    Franklin & Marshall/Old Westbury

    They have a tough schedule but nothing that prevents them from winning 20 games in my opinion.  I am predicting either a 6-3/7-2 non-conference record and 13-3 conference record.  20 regular season wins isn't out of the question.  Fisher is probably the team to beat in the conference but the Bombers are right there with them. Predictions to follow...Go Bombers!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 19, 2010, 10:34:00 AM
    OK Bomber 3 my turn.... I think I have enough info to be wrong........not sure of s couple of opponents yet so recerve the right to be off by a couple out of Conference.

    Tigers.....
    Out of Conference...
    College of staten Island - away
    Wendy's Classic
    Oswego Home
    Waynesburg- (Brodie Tourney)
    D'Youville- Home
    Rochester- Away


    I am going with----6-3 non conference ( looks like 9 games)...

    Conference 12-4--- 18-7 ..........

    E-8 standings......................

    IC-----------Experience and talent
    RIT----------Experience
    Fisher------Coaching and reputation
    NAZ---------Always there
    Hartwick---Upcoming and good coach
    Alfred-------PEP says good recruits?
    Utica--------Unorganized.. needs new look
    Stevens----lost Heart and talent.. starting all over- hayne recruits gone.
    Elmira------Needs a lot of help...


    You could flip.... NAZ and WICK..... The bottom 4 could flip around in any order BUT will be the botton the 4.   13 wins takes first place. Not many winns in bottom 4.

    Not meant to demeanor any teams coaches or players, just a guy giving his opinion.. What do I know ;)














    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on October 19, 2010, 10:35:24 AM
    I also reserve the right for typo's........posting while working ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: E8GUY on October 19, 2010, 03:18:21 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on October 19, 2010, 10:34:00 AM
    OK Bomber 3 my turn.... I think I have enough info to be wrong........not sure of s couple of opponents yet so recerve the right to be off by a couple out of Conference.

    Tigers.....
    Out of Conference...
    College of staten Island - away
    Wendy's Classic
    Oswego Home
    Waynesburg- (Brodie Tourney)
    D'Youville- Home
    Rochester- Away


    I am going with----6-3 non conference ( looks like 9 games)...

    Conference 12-4--- 18-7 ..........

    E-8 standings......................

    IC-----------Experience and talent
    RIT----------Experience
    Fisher------Coaching and reputation
    NAZ---------Always there
    Hartwick---Upcoming and good coach
    Alfred-------PEP says good recruits?
    Utica--------Unorganized.. needs new look
    Stevens----lost Heart and talent.. starting all over- hayne recruits gone.
    Elmira------Needs a lot of help...


    You could flip.... NAZ and WICK..... The bottom 4 could flip around in any order BUT will be the botton the 4.   13 wins takes first place. Not many winns in bottom 4.

    Not meant to demeanor any teams coaches or players, just a guy giving his opinion.. What do I know ;)


    I would rather not demean any players either, but considering what Connelly left behind at Elmira (which showed pretty brutal recruiting) it's hard to see how things won't just keep going downhill at Utica.  What a strange hire he was.  So I think they head to last.

    Otherwise this list makes sense, I do like Hartwick to crack that top four this year.

















    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on October 19, 2010, 06:22:47 PM
    I've heard good things about Utica's recruits.  I cannot vouch for them personally but I am told several are legit.  They will not be last I will guarantee it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 19, 2010, 09:57:20 PM
    Any word on what Fisher brought into camp now that practice has started? I am excited for this year, and I think that (Warning: HOMER pick) Fisher will be the team to beat in the conference. From what I have seen on here the conference is improved, but I think Fisher was clearly the best team in the conference last year (only one loss in the regular season) and they have several key players back. Kornaker always does a good job recruiting, and I would not want another coach running my team.

    Does anyone know if Ozell Franklin will be back on the team this year?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on October 27, 2010, 10:22:34 AM
    According to the Ithaca Journal's Brian Delaney, Andrei Oztemel is out 4-6 weeks with a "rare back-related nerve issue." Hate to see that, especially from a guy who's worked as hard as he has to improve. One of my favorite Bombers. Here's hoping he makes a full and timely recovery
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on October 28, 2010, 01:25:56 PM
    Posted this on the SUNYAC board earlier.

    Plattsburgh State tops the East Region teams in the D3hoops Top 25 Preseason men's poll, that was released earlier today. The Cardinals receive 126 points and check in at #22. No other East region team cracked the top 25. The other Cardinals, St John Fisher, was the next East region team mentioned as they received 9 points in the others receiving votes category. SUNYIT also received 7 points and NYU got 2 points.

    Here's the link to the complete poll: http://d3hoops.com/top25/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 02, 2010, 08:26:18 PM
    As partially reported by Bombers, Ithaca has been hit by injuries already early in the season.  Cruz has yet to practice, Jordan Marcus dislocated a finger and is out 2+ weeks, and Andrei Oztemel is rumored to be out for the entire season.  Also, Eli Maravich decided not to go out for the team this year.  So basically four players that played significant minutes last season are missing time (add Tom Brown to the list and 5 of the top 7 players from last season are not on the court right now).  So the season hasn't started out on the right foot but there is plenty of time to get healthy and turn things around. 

    The new roster is up.  Miles Grier and Sweeney are their star recruits.  Sweeney is 6'9, which is already one of the tallest players in the league.  I am told one of their freshman had 20/15 in one of their scrimmages (think it was Grier).

    Overall I hope the injuries are a short term speed bump.  They have the depth to rotate 1-2 injuries but any team would struggle to replace more than that.  Hopefully everyone (minus Oztemel) is back by tipoff, which is fast approaching - first game is two weeks from tomorrow.  Predictions to come.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 02, 2010, 08:53:16 PM
    Is there any word out of Fisher camp? Someone had mentioned earlier that Fisher had a few recruits from way out of state, so if anyone knows anything about them, please let me know.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 04, 2010, 10:49:16 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 02, 2010, 08:53:16 PM
    Is there any word out of Fisher camp? Someone had mentioned earlier that Fisher had a few recruits from way out of state, so if anyone knows anything about them, please let me know.
    I was at a the scrimmage that took place between the Buffalo State Bengals and the St John Fisher this past Saturday! (my name should tell you which team I LOVE).
    Didnt know too much about Fisher other than they went to the dance last year.
    We don't keep stats of the other team in a scrimmage and didn't really know/care about who's name is what.
    I did notice that..
    A - Thier bigman, especially their 4 were quick. That was suprising especially considering that the BENGALS bigmen are damn good.
    B- Thier guards were decent!
    C -They, Fisher, liked to run! 
    Fisher won the first period (20 min blocks) by 6. Bengals and Fisher tied the 2nd period and Bengals won the third period by 8

    Hope that helps!!!



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 04, 2010, 02:56:41 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 02, 2010, 08:26:18 PM
    As partially reported by Bombers, Ithaca has been hit by injuries already early in the season.  Cruz has yet to practice, Jordan Marcus dislocated a finger and is out 2+ weeks, and Andrei Oztemel is rumored to be out for the entire season.  Also, Eli Maravich decided not to go out for the team this year.  So basically four players that played significant minutes last season are missing time (add Tom Brown to the list and 5 of the top 7 players from last season are not on the court right now).  So the season hasn't started out on the right foot but there is plenty of time to get healthy and turn things around. 

    The new roster is up.  Miles Grier and Sweeney are their star recruits.  Sweeney is 6'9, which is already one of the tallest players in the league.  I am told one of their freshman had 20/15 in one of their scrimmages (think it was Grier).

    Overall I hope the injuries are a short term speed bump.  They have the depth to rotate 1-2 injuries but any team would struggle to replace more than that.  Hopefully everyone (minus Oztemel) is back by tipoff, which is fast approaching - first game is two weeks from tomorrow.  Predictions to come.

    A) What's up with Cruz?

    B) Marcus was out for that first game anyway, so is he really going to miss much time if the injury's only two weeks.

    C) I wish our roster listed weights...6'9 and what on Sweeney?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 04, 2010, 03:22:10 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 04, 2010, 02:56:41 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 02, 2010, 08:26:18 PM
    As partially reported by Bombers, Ithaca has been hit by injuries already early in the season.  Cruz has yet to practice, Jordan Marcus dislocated a finger and is out 2+ weeks, and Andrei Oztemel is rumored to be out for the entire season.  Also, Eli Maravich decided not to go out for the team this year.  So basically four players that played significant minutes last season are missing time (add Tom Brown to the list and 5 of the top 7 players from last season are not on the court right now).  So the season hasn't started out on the right foot but there is plenty of time to get healthy and turn things around. 

    The new roster is up.  Miles Grier and Sweeney are their star recruits.  Sweeney is 6'9, which is already one of the tallest players in the league.  I am told one of their freshman had 20/15 in one of their scrimmages (think it was Grier).

    Overall I hope the injuries are a short term speed bump.  They have the depth to rotate 1-2 injuries but any team would struggle to replace more than that.  Hopefully everyone (minus Oztemel) is back by tipoff, which is fast approaching - first game is two weeks from tomorrow.  Predictions to come.

    A) What's up with Cruz?

    B) Marcus was out for that first game anyway, so is he really going to miss much time if the injury's only two weeks.

    C) I wish our roster listed weights...6'9 and what on Sweeney?

    235 according to his profile
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 05, 2010, 01:11:26 PM
    Thanks Bengals. I appreciate it. I checked out some. Of Fisher's recruits on youtube now that the roster is up and some look pretty decent. I don't know much about comparing high school talent to college, but they looked good to me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 05, 2010, 08:04:31 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 04, 2010, 02:56:41 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 02, 2010, 08:26:18 PM
    As partially reported by Bombers, Ithaca has been hit by injuries already early in the season.  Cruz has yet to practice, Jordan Marcus dislocated a finger and is out 2+ weeks, and Andrei Oztemel is rumored to be out for the entire season.  Also, Eli Maravich decided not to go out for the team this year.  So basically four players that played significant minutes last season are missing time (add Tom Brown to the list and 5 of the top 7 players from last season are not on the court right now).  So the season hasn't started out on the right foot but there is plenty of time to get healthy and turn things around. 

    The new roster is up.  Miles Grier and Sweeney are their star recruits.  Sweeney is 6'9, which is already one of the tallest players in the league.  I am told one of their freshman had 20/15 in one of their scrimmages (think it was Grier).

    Overall I hope the injuries are a short term speed bump.  They have the depth to rotate 1-2 injuries but any team would struggle to replace more than that.  Hopefully everyone (minus Oztemel) is back by tipoff, which is fast approaching - first game is two weeks from tomorrow.  Predictions to come.

    A) What's up with Cruz?

    B) Marcus was out for that first game anyway, so is he really going to miss much time if the injury's only two weeks.

    C) I wish our roster listed weights...6'9 and what on Sweeney?

    Not sure what is wrong with Cruz.  I am told he will be back soon though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 09, 2010, 12:40:46 PM
    I thought this board would be a little more alive these days. Anyone have any thoughts on how the season will pan out? I see the 4 playoff teams as Fisher, IC, Naz, and Stevens. Much like last year. I haven't done enough poking around to have a real good idea of how it will go, or to even attempt a full rundown of the league. Any thoughts?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 09, 2010, 01:18:34 PM
    SJF CARDS----you just made the board alive..........I usually don't get too excited about predictions....  and I know I'm prejudice....Stevens ahead of RIT.. Naz will struggle to make the top 4... but could be there. I think Stevens will struggle to stay out of the bottom 3....UNLESS someone knows something I don't about Stevens.  Hartwick will also make a case at top 4. As I always say what do I know BUT what do you know about the Ducks. If they are coming back without any big impact freshman, they are in trouble. All of coach Haynes recruits are gone... While they have Cutri, Simon and Thompson returning, the problems they ahve with those 3 are...... Cutri needs someone else to be a threat in order to get open. Last year teams threw triangle and 3's on him and Greco.  Simon can score if he can get the ball in the paint...Thompson didn't show that ability last year. He needs to cut down on dribble and not be afraid to penetrate. I think his problem with penetrating is he couldn't finish, and teams knew that, so made it tough for him tio dish.  He can shoot though, so if they can find a poing guard who could open him up as a small 2---they may be in business. So I basically see a team that can't score much... They do have a history of good defense.......BUT their 3 best defensive players, Higgans, Greco and Masone are gone..... Can be very tough for this group....   The tigers were on the rise late last year and still have their core back. I am nervous about the point in that Korinchak isn't quick enough to guard some opfthe points in the league and finds himself in fould trouble almost every night. He is a senior however and has experience, hopefully he won't hurt us. We have enough scoring but need to rebound better than last year, and not fall asllep during games. We lack that 40 minute intensity last year. I know NAZ is there every year but need to see who they have coming in... lose alot when losing Mc Adamas.... BUT ;)


       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 09, 2010, 06:01:54 PM
    you know a lot more about Stevens and RIT than I do. I'll admit I basically went on history as I have no idea who has what coming in. With Stevens it is the defense that I think gets them in. But, truthfully I think it is IC and SJFC and then everyone else.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 10, 2010, 07:00:59 AM
    This is definitely a 2 horse race.  I can see Fisher/IC both being 14-2/13-3 then everyone else a few games back. Both teams should get to 20 wins.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 10, 2010, 10:04:20 AM
    In fairness I am flapping away and really do not know anything about the freshman involved, and that could change quite a few issues. I do agree about IC.. and based on past performance Fisher should be right there. I am a little suspect about their guards though... just a little. The rest is wide open, although IF RIT learned anything at the end of the year it was they have to limit their rotation (not use 10-11 players) for continuity. Also they started rebounding in tehir lat 6 games or so... I think. Limit their fouls (hear that Kornichak), they could very well be right on the top two tails. After that, as I have posted, Naz and Wick could battle for 4...  IF Utica has what has been posted coming in ( 12 freshman with height and talent)  I'll put them 6...... PEP says Alfred much improved and PEP tells it like it is.. so put them 7....... I just don't see Stevens having the depth, experience or talent enough to do much better than 7... Hope I am wrong, because I see them more than the Tigers, and seem like a nice bunch.
    BUT ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 10, 2010, 12:12:57 PM
    I see that Fisher has Ryan Kramer listed as a guard....That to me is a GREAT thing.
    Tho he may need a breather to get over the Football season...Im sure he is a bit dinged up
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 10, 2010, 04:33:41 PM
    I am excited about Kramer as well 91. He is a good athlete, and was a good player in high school. I am also interested in soome of the other freshman. I am fine with Jordan Gettings at Guard, and Ozell Franklin is back in the roster. If Norsen progresses I can see a good season for the boys in Pittsford.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 11, 2010, 07:32:23 AM
    Cards,
    Its been a while since i followed Fisher bball other than catching an occasional box score, and that miracle undefeatd season...minus that loss in the playoffs.
    What can I expect this year....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 11, 2010, 10:58:48 AM
    91, I have always been more of a Fisher hoops guy than a Football guy. Here is how I see it.

    I am cautiously optimistic about this years Fisher team. They were 23-6 last year, and 15-1 in the conference, hosted and won a game in the first round of the NCAA tourny before being bounced by a Brandeis team that was pretty good. They bring back a lot of talent from that team including Jordan Koch (a lanky forward that can jump through the roof), Jordan Gettings ( A solid point who can get in the paint and score), Brandon Witte (Tall and Lanky, especially if he plays as a power forward), Jason Norsen (A Freshman last year who showed some promise as a big man), Connor Henderson should be back (A solid 3 point shooter that really played well last year) but I don't see him on the roster or the team pic,  and Will Cornett is back for what feels like his 10th season. Cornett is a good defender.
    I expect Justin Plata and Kevin Francis to see more time this year than they did last year.

    As far as newcomers I am excited about Ryan Kramer. I saw him play once in high school for Oneida against Cortland and he was the best player on the court as a sophomore (I think, he may have been a freshman). That Cortland team he played was the #2 seed in Section III that year, and had Joel White on it. White, who chose to play lacrosse at SU, saw some interest from high level DII and some lower level DI teams for basketball.
    Zachary Messenger is intriguing to me as well. From what I can find online he seemed to be a quality high school player in Conn. He played for one of the better private schools (Trinity Catholic) in the state for a few years as well. I am basing all of this on what I can find online, but I think he could be good. Especially at 6'4. 
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbS3HsiUijg

    Michael Moyer is another incoming player I am excited about. Here is a video I found of him:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ5WxY-5sqs

    All in all I think this Fisher team can be pretty good. They will probably go 6'6, 6'6, 6'6 across the back line (Witte, NOrsen and Koch), and can bring in a Freshman at 6'8 if they need to. With some solid guard play, I think they can be one o fthe better teams in the State. Franklin is an athlete, and if he plays within himself and the system he can be all conference ( I think he has been in the past). Gettings was second team all E8 last year, and I htink he will have a good season as well. I am excited to see what they put on the court, but IMHO they will not lack for talent against many teams, and we know what Kornaker can do.

    GO CARDS!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 11, 2010, 01:21:57 PM
    Cards
    thank you very much!
    Here is hoping you are right and that they make a better run in the ncaas!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 11, 2010, 02:53:14 PM
    Coaches pick Fisher to win the E8!

    http://athletics.sjfc.edu/news/2010/11/10/MBK_1110103655.aspx?path=mbball
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 11, 2010, 05:06:22 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 11, 2010, 02:53:14 PM
    Coaches pick Fisher to win the E8!

    http://athletics.sjfc.edu/news/2010/11/10/MBK_1110103655.aspx?path=mbball

    Looks like we've got a three-tiered league: IC/RIT/Fisher, Hartwick/Naz/Stevens and Alfred/Elmira/Utica

    At least that's the coaches' take on it
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 11, 2010, 06:24:51 PM
    D3hoops released their preseason All-American teams today. Only East region player to get mentioned is Dave Golembiowski from SUNYIT who was named to the 4th team.

    Here's the link to the complete list:  http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/preseason-2011
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 11, 2010, 07:14:04 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 11, 2010, 05:06:22 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 11, 2010, 02:53:14 PM
    Coaches pick Fisher to win the E8!

    http://athletics.sjfc.edu/news/2010/11/10/MBK_1110103655.aspx?path=mbball

    Looks like we've got a three-tiered league: IC/RIT/Fisher, Hartwick/Naz/Stevens and Alfred/Elmira/Utica

    At least that's the coaches' take on it

    I am excited to see what RIT has to offer when the season starts. There were times last year where I thought they were on the brink of being at the top of the league. This year I think they can do some damage. IF they can steal a game or two from IC and Fisher, it may be interesting. Does anyone know what they have coming in this year?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 12, 2010, 07:27:46 AM
    I brought this up on the football board, but I think it is interesting here as well. It looks like the MAC and the NJAC are doing a conference challenge in 2012. What does everyone think of a E8 SUNY challenge in basketball, like the big 10/ACC challenge? We have the debate every year anyway.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 12, 2010, 07:31:25 AM
    EDIT: that MAC/NJAC challenge is in football not Basketball.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 12, 2010, 10:11:39 AM
    SJF CARDS.... RIT will once again  be a mystery for awhile.  They will be young up front... except for Harder who is 6"6", but he plays small... shoots and not a great rebounder. Kornacker is a 4 year guy BUT not the proto-type point... plays strong ( too strong at times...see foul trouble) and is a little slow to guard most of the scoring and penetrating points. This team looks like the typical McVean.....let me rotate 12 guys until I find the right mix. Then we have to make a late run to get into the playoffs.  I really want to see him establish that rotation before the E-8 games.  It looks like 4 tiers to me.....I see it as Fisher-IC, ///   RIT, /// Wick- Naz///
    Alfred-Utica-Stevens-Elmira..............The only thing that can advance the bottom 4 will be what their freshaman can bring, because what each one has coming back is not enough. 

    By the way.... I see Gettings losing P/T compared to last year. He is another one of those power points. A little too slow for me. I saw him come out of games last year when the opposing point was having their way... BUT ;)


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 12, 2010, 05:08:51 PM
    FROMAFAR,

    I'm a little confused by what you said about Brendan Harder.

    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 12, 2010, 10:11:39 AM
    SJF CARDS.... RIT will once again  be a mystery for awhile.  They will be young up front... except for Harder who is 6"6", but he plays small... shoots and not a great rebounder.

    Harder was the 4th leading rebounder in the E8 last year as a Sophomore with 6.8 rpg. Also 2nd leading scorer on RIT and 12th overall in the E8(12.6 ppg). In addition he managed to be among the league leaders (top 15) in field goal %(51.9), free throw %(69.8), steals, blocks, and offensive rebounds. I watched him play several times last season and he was the Tiger's MVP in my opinion. You might be mistaking him for the now graduated Scott Young who was another 6'6" forward that didn't mix it up to much inside but hung around the top of the key and hoisted up his share of 3 pointers. Young was a decent shooter but Harder was the heart of the team. I'll be surprised if Harder doesn't improve this year.

    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 12, 2010, 10:11:39 AM
    [Kornacker is a 4 year guy BUT not the proto-type point... plays strong ( too strong at times...see foul trouble) and is a little slow to guard most of the scoring and penetrating points.

    Pretty sure you mean Korinchak here, not Kornacker. The Cardinals coach is a little too old to be suiting  up for the Tigers.(But probably not to old to do a decent job) ;D 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 14, 2010, 07:44:23 PM
    So does anyone know anything about Mary Washington and/or Christopher Newport?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 15, 2010, 08:40:17 AM
    Magic, you could be right about me thinking about Young, BUT I was thinking Offensive boards.. if that makes sense. Our bigs, Harder and Young bouth liked to shoot and stayed away from the basket. Maybe I am picking straws and by no means selling Harder short. He is just not that CARSON type (who is).  I just feel that the two most important parts are REBOUNDING AT BOTH ENDS- and of course a point guard with Swagger toughness and a leader......... OH we need Harder to do wha he did last year and then some.... but I would like to see a little more offensive rebounding.  Thanks Magic.... appreciate your help....... ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 15, 2010, 10:51:19 AM
    50-50 shot at getting to the Stevens- Baruch game tonight.........Of course I will let you guys know what my humble opinion of the two teams is....especially Stevens. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 15, 2010, 11:13:54 AM
    Alfred's Saxons, in the shadow of the football team hosting SUNY-Maritime in the NCAAs this Saturday, open their cage season tonight with a game at Penn State-Dubois.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 15, 2010, 12:29:49 PM
    How does AU look Pep? I know the focus has to he football at AU this week, but is there anything to get excited about from the hoops team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 15, 2010, 12:30:10 PM
    How does AU look Pep? I know the focus has to he football at AU this week, but is there anything to get excited about from the hoops team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FISHERMAN on November 15, 2010, 04:09:16 PM
    Anybody have any inside information on how the SJF freshman are performing in practice?

    I'm excited to watch them as I know their recruiting class was considered an impressive haul.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 15, 2010, 07:35:43 PM
    Quote from: FISHERMAN on November 15, 2010, 04:09:16 PM
    Anybody have any inside information on how the SJF freshman are performing in practice?

    I'm excited to watch them as I know their recruiting class was considered an impressive haul.

    I don't know anything about how the players are looking in practice thus far, but on paper they look impressive. I am excited to see what this Michael Moyer and Zach Messinger will bring to the team. They look great and I have posted some videos of them on here. I am excited about this season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 15, 2010, 10:57:07 PM
    E8 draws first blood in the E8 vs SUNYAC matchups as Utica College travels to Potsdam and comes away with a 62-59 win.
    Will Abrams and James Patterson led the Pioneers with 16 points each. Kevin Johnson also hit double figures with 10.    


    Stevens has 5 players hit double figures but still drops a close one to Baruch 79-75. Simon Smith leads the Ducks with 20 pts. and 15 rebounds.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 16, 2010, 07:46:01 AM
    I was at the Stevens game last. Although only one game I see some interesting things that COULD give us an idea of what to expect about the DUCKS. Again only one game and against only one team, so of course this could all be wrong, but here's what I see. First.. Baruch does not look as good as they did the last few years. They miss Kunkel big time as seen by the rebounding.. Stevens out boarded them 40-29.  That could also be because of that being a strength for Stevens. Smith was a giant off the boards, and worked very hard all night. He also ended up with 20 PTs., I believe. He shot well from the foul line which could be huge for him and the team. He gets there a lot, and has shot less than 50% in his first two years. Stevens played almost everyone, and it appeared Hurley is looking to give the freshman an opportunity to prove they should get playing time. I was impressed with Sabbatino, who is about 6'5" or 6'6" and looks confident and has some court IQ. I look for him to averaging well over 20 min. a game by mid year. I was also very impressed with a freshman guard named Skrelja, now don't think I'm nuts, I am just making an observation. He looks like he is about 6'2" he has the look of a very young and not matured Corey McAdam.  However he had a little bit of that saunter that like in a point guard. He played over 20 min. and McAdamess 4 assists and 4 turnovers. Giveth and taketh, but not afraid to make the entry pass and wrap around passes. I like him... He could take over the point and Thompson could then play the 2 at times like he did with Greco last year, and hit some 3's. One big problem last night was Cutri and Thompson could not hit their 3's. I think 1-8 between them. Looked like Baruch was denying that option and made it tough. So all that being said, More info needed on this team BUT may be better than I thought because they do have some Freshman that appear to be able to play, But ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 16, 2010, 08:41:50 PM
    FROMAFAR, i toldja those Ducks would be dangerous!

    Haha, just kidding, very accurate assessment of the game last night.  I was able to make it there also and saw the same potential that you did.  I really do think that this team just needs some time to grow together.  You saw last night that Hurley doesn't have a rotation set yet, but guys like Sabbatino, Skrel, and McManamy could give the Ducks a solid 8 man rotation.  Jones, though out of control at times, looks to be more aggressive this year.  Smith is going to be a walking double-double all season long.  

    2 HUGE problems I saw with the Ducks, both of which I think will end up hindering this team all season, and are essentially the same thing on opposite sides of the floor.  First, Jones is their only above-average perimeter defender, which means they are going to rely on a lot of help defense.  Against teams, like Baruch, that shoot the ball well the Ducks are going to have issues defending the three.  Second, offensively Stevens doesn't have a anyone (Jones included) that can take their man to the basket individually.  Balanced scoring was great to see and they really play a team game, but there were multiple occasions when the shot clock hit single digits and they were setting up double screens to try and get Cutri a look.  I've always said to be balanced is better, but every team needs a guy who can make "the play" and I don't think Stevens has it.  Smith would be the natural guy but, even with a better shooting performance last night, I still think teams will foul him and make him earn it.  Stevens is going to need someone on the perimeter to prove they can get to the basket in crunch time.

    Must agree with you after watching last night that the loss of Greco will hurt, not necessarily because Thompson can't adequately play the point, but because they don't have depth at the position.  I think, as you mentioned, Skrelja could grow into it, but I think he's a couple years away as opposed to a few games.  He seemed very timid bringing the ball up court against pressure, though he was a little better in the half court.

    Overall left the game with a feeling that, if the freshman mature quickly, there is no reason the Ducks can't make be in the mix for the 4/5 seed and a shot at an E8 tournament bid.  Definitely won't win the conference, but I think the team will surprise a few people, particularly with the improved play of Smith and addition of Sabbatino.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 17, 2010, 01:03:55 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 12, 2010, 07:27:46 AM
    What does everyone think of a E8 SUNY challenge in basketball, like the big 10/ACC challenge? We have the debate every year anyway.
    I like the idea although I doubt we will ever see such a set-up in the near future. For now we will just have to track the results of the following.....
    SUNYAC                         vs                    Empire 8
    Potsdam                  loses to            Utica
    Cortland                  defeated          Elmira
    Oneonta                  vs                   Utica 11/22
    Oneonta                  vs                    Hartwick 12/7
    Oswego                   vs                   Ithaca 11/28
    Cortland                   vs                  Ithaca  11/30
    Oneonta                   vs                  Ithaca  12/11
    Oneonta                   vs                 Nazarath  11/19
    Buffalo State             vs                 Nazarath  12/7
    Oswego                    vs                  RIT     12/7
    Fredonia                   vs                 Elmira    11/30
    Brockport                  vs                St John Fisher  11/23
                 
    Undoubtly the WENDYS Classic will have some SUNYAC/E8 mingling also but  by Dec 12th we should have a good idea of "who stands over whom". I like the SUNYACs chances better if someone was willing to take on PLATTSBURGH - SUNYAC DEFENDING CHAMP- (I think Magicman would agree!) BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS.

    I'll be at the Naz/BSC game so I will gladly report back after that 1!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 17, 2010, 09:28:32 AM
    Cyclone, always glad to hear your voice about Ducks, no one knows more about them than you. Your correct no set rotation yet..  That's what hurts RIT many years, last year especially. However in Ducks case it is necessary because they really were left with little choice but to find some freshman who can contribute.  Your also correct that Skrelja ( sorry if spelling is wrong) will need probably a whole season, BUT I would take the chance if I were Hurley, of continued big minutes, it can only help in time. He looks like he has the ability to get better and gain confidence. Thompson is more of a two. Lat year he was wide open for 3's because he had a point (Greco) on the floor with him, most times. He would be leathel when it was set shot.....   Now he has to bring it up and either create his own shot ( which he doesn't do well) or hope he gets it back in a good spot... I think Skrelja may be the guiy who could that.  Also last year there really were 3 options to hit a 3 now onlt 2... SO look for Cutri to be overplayed and he has difficulty creating. So it is going to be a project.... However Sabbatino could be huge if he is as good as we think he can be.. this can give the others some open space. I am not too confident in McNamany ( spelling again). But it is early....I did like Franklin's aggressiveness too....... Unfortunately Baruch looked pretty bad to me so this presents too little info to asses yet. They will or should be facing a Good Paterson team in the finals of the Stevens tourney.  That will be a good test... First they have to win that first game... I forget who they are playing... I may not be there, so Cyclone let me know what you see...if your there... ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 17, 2010, 06:31:19 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 17, 2010, 01:03:55 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 12, 2010, 07:27:46 AM
    What does everyone think of a E8 SUNY challenge in basketball, like the big 10/ACC challenge? We have the debate every year anyway.
    I like the idea although I doubt we will ever see such a set-up in the near future. For now we will just have to track the results of the following.....
    SUNYAC                         vs                    Empire 8
    Potsdam                  loses to            Utica
    Cortland                  defeated          Elmira
    Oneonta                  vs                   Utica 11/22
    Oneonta                  vs                    Hartwick 12/7
    Oswego                   vs                   Ithaca 11/28
    Cortland                   vs                  Ithaca  11/30
    Oneonta                   vs                  Ithaca  12/11
    Oneonta                   vs                 Nazarath  11/19
    Buffalo State             vs                 Nazarath  12/7
    Oswego                    vs                  RIT     12/7
    Fredonia                   vs                 Elmira    11/30
    Brockport                  vs                St John Fisher  11/23
                 
    Undoubtly the WENDYS Classic will have some SUNYAC/E8 mingling also but  by Dec 12th we should have a good idea of "who stands over whom". I like the SUNYACs chances better if someone was willing to take on PLATTSBURGH - SUNYAC DEFENDING CHAMP- (I think Magicman would agree!) BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS.

    I'll be at the Naz/BSC game so I will gladly report back after that 1!

    Thanks Bengals!
    I tend to agree with you about the E8 having the upper hand with IC and Fisher playing 4 games against the SUNYAC, but with the E8 being down a littel this year, the SUNYAC may be just fine as is.
    It is great to have you on the board this year. +K
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 17, 2010, 08:18:35 PM
    A little E8-Liberty League challenge going on right now as Hobart is visiting Ithaca. Bombers went up by as much as 12 in the 1st half but Statesmen came back to make it a 1 pt game at the break as Ithaca led 44-43. Back and forth start of 2nd half and Hobart moves in front 50-46 but the Bombers have come back to go up by 10, 67-57, with 10 mins. left to play. Hobart, with everybody back from last year's team was picked to win the LL this season. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jonny Utah on November 17, 2010, 08:29:58 PM
    Hey all.  Long time football poster (IC '97) here with a quick question:

    How come Ithaca doesn't play a home and home with Cortland every year in basketball? 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 17, 2010, 09:14:13 PM
    Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 17, 2010, 08:29:58 PM
    Hey all.  Long time football poster (IC '97) here with a quick question:

    How come Ithaca doesn't play a home and home with Cortland every year in basketball? 

    They do play each other every year but only once and they alternate home court from year to year. SUNYAC with 10 teams in the conference plays a double round robin for a total of 18 conference games. That only leaves 7 out of conference games available each year to reach your total of 25. It's nice to have a few cupcakes on the schedule to help out your regional record and for the Bombers and Red Dragons to play each other twice a year may not be a good idea in that regard.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 17, 2010, 09:25:08 PM
    Bombers beat Hobart 95-87...

    Five Bombers hit double figures, with Cruz-Rivas topping the list with 28. Barrera goes for 18 and 15. Rossi has 10 with 12 assists.

    Miles Grier, the much hyped freshman, has some serious athleticism...7 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocks and a whole lot of air time. The only downside is he went 1-for-8 from the floor and 0-for-3 from the line. But that could be first game jitters. Fellow freshman Christian Jordan had a better game, scoring 15

    Andrei Oztemel seems fine, as he scored 19 points on 4-of-11 shooting from three-point range.

    Overall, 95 points is an amazing total considering their leading returning scorer couldn't play. The Bombers are essentially the same kind of team they were last season, but much more athletic. The return of Marcus will give them another body good for 30 minutes and will be able to spell the freshman--and Rossi, who played 40 minutes
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 17, 2010, 09:34:38 PM
    Ithaca opens their season as they defeat visiting Hobart. The final was 95-87. Chris Cruz-Rivas leads 5 Bombers in double figures with 28 points. He also grabbed 10 rebounds. Phil Barera also had a double-double with 18 pts and 15 boards. Sean Rossi with another double-double as he handed out 12 assists while scoring 10 pts. Andre Oztemel added 18 pts and Christian Jordan dropped in 15.

    Hobart was led by Matt Pebole with 23 pts and Stefan Thompson with 22. Freshman forward Richie Bonney had a double-double of 10 pts and 16 rebounds, while Tim Llewellyn chipped in with 12 pts.

    Both teams made 32 field goals and 18 free throws but the Bombers hit 12 3 pointers to only 5 for the Statesmen. Nice win to open the season for Ithaca. Certainly faced much stiffer competition than most schools do for an opening game.

    Ithaca will travel to Erie Pa. this weekend to take on Grove City in the 1st round of the Behrend Tip Off Tournament on Friday at 6 PM.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 17, 2010, 09:55:00 PM
    Yes, very good win for IC.  Hobart will be a very good team this year and Stefan Thomson is legit.  I guess my source wasn't that credible about Oztemel. I'll have to take his info with a grain of salt from now on I guess...

    Very solid game from Cruz who missed a lot of the preseason.  Barera with his typical game -- my predicting is he hits 25 rebounds in a game once this year.  Him and Carson from RIT are the two best rebounders in the past decade of the E8.  He should average 12+ a game.

    Marcus wasn't able to replicate his 45? point performance on opening night last year but look for him to come out fired up this weekend.

    I never got my predictions but its only the top 2 that matter:

    1. Ithaca
    2. Fisher

    Bombers win the regular season title, win the E8 tournament, and win a game in the NCAA tournament.  Mark it down.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 17, 2010, 09:59:05 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 17, 2010, 09:55:00 PM
    Yes, very good win for IC.  Hobart will be a very good team this year and Stefan Thomson is legit.  I guess my source wasn't that credible about Oztemel. I'll have to take his info with a grain of salt from now on I guess...

    Very solid game from Cruz who missed a lot of the preseason.  Barera with his typical game -- my predicting is he hits 25 rebounds in a game once this year.  Him and Carson from RIT are the two best rebounders in the past decade of the E8.  He should average 12+ a game.

    Marcus wasn't able to replicate his 45? point performance on opening night last year but look for him to come out fired up this weekend.

    I never got my predictions but its only the top 2 that matter:

    1. Ithaca
    2. Fisher

    Bombers win the regular season title, win the E8 tournament, and win a game in the NCAA tournament.  Mark it down.



    I'm going to hold you to that, my friend
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 17, 2010, 11:51:30 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 17, 2010, 06:31:19 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 17, 2010, 01:03:55 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 12, 2010, 07:27:46 AM
                 

    Thanks Bengals!
    I tend to agree with you about the E8 having the upper hand with IC and Fisher playing 4 games against the SUNYAC, but with the E8 being down a littel this year, the SUNYAC may be just fine as is.
    It is great to have you on the board this year. +K



    Thanks sjfcards!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 18, 2010, 07:46:11 AM
    Bombers --

    The conference tournament is really a crapshoot because by then its the third time you've played somebody and anything can happen.  So that is tougher to predict and I'm the least confident about that.  But the other two I'm confident of.  I think they will win an NCAA game this season and will be a game or so better than Fisher in the conference, with both having 2-4 losses. 

    This all hinges on whether they've improved their defense though and although they won yesterday, they still gave up a lot of points.  If they don't improve that then they'll have about 18-19 wins, will lose in the conference tournament, and won't make NCAAs. Go Bombers! 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 18, 2010, 07:59:44 AM
    Bomber3
    I have a feeling you will win one or the other- Not both.
    Fisher and IC will battle down to the bitter end this season!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2010, 10:24:42 AM
    Quote from: magicman on November 17, 2010, 09:14:13 PM
    Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 17, 2010, 08:29:58 PM
    Hey all.  Long time football poster (IC '97) here with a quick question:

    How come Ithaca doesn't play a home and home with Cortland every year in basketball? 

    They do play each other every year but only once and they alternate home court from year to year. SUNYAC with 10 teams in the conference plays a double round robin for a total of 18 conference games. That only leaves 7 out of conference games available each year to reach your total of 25. It's nice to have a few cupcakes on the schedule to help out your regional record and for the Bombers and Red Dragons to play each other twice a year may not be a good idea in that regard.

    Thanks, so 25 is the max amount of games they can play I take it? 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 18, 2010, 11:11:11 AM
    Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 18, 2010, 10:24:42 AM
    Quote from: magicman on November 17, 2010, 09:14:13 PM
    Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 17, 2010, 08:29:58 PM
    Hey all.  Long time football poster (IC '97) here with a quick question:

    How come Ithaca doesn't play a home and home with Cortland every year in basketball?  

    They do play each other every year but only once and they alternate home court from year to year. SUNYAC with 10 teams in the conference plays a double round robin for a total of 18 conference games. That only leaves 7 out of conference games available each year to reach your total of 25. It's nice to have a few cupcakes on the schedule to help out your regional record and for the Bombers and Red Dragons to play each other twice a year may not be a good idea in that regard.

    Thanks, so 25 is the max amount of games they can play I take it?  


    25 for the regular season. Add in 2 or 3 for your conference tournament and up to 6 for the NCAA tournament and you're into the 30's.








    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 18, 2010, 01:28:31 PM
    Hey gang, let's not annoint anyone yet......... There are games to be played, injuries (hope not many), bad calls by ref's, off nights by stars, big nights by bench players.. and we know the only thing consistant in the E-8 is inconsistancy.... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 18, 2010, 01:37:13 PM
    "Go ahead and crown their asses!"
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2010, 10:22:56 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 18, 2010, 01:28:31 PM
    Hey gang, let's not annoint anyone yet......... There are games to be played, injuries (hope not many), bad calls by ref's, off nights by stars, big nights by bench players.. and we know the only thing consistant in the E-8 is inconsistancy.... ;)

    Who's anointing anyone? Predictions do not equal anointing. It's not like we're saying, "Ithaca and Fisher are the class of the league, the rest of you may as well not show up...especially you Alfred." I'd bet a month's rent I'll call the Bombers choke artists and tick off bomber3 so badly he wants to kill me. But I don't think there's anything wrong with a little harmless, "I think IC and Fisher might be the two best teams in the conference," or "Hey, the Bombers beat a good Hobart team without their leading scorer, they might be pretty good."
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 19, 2010, 01:37:16 PM
    I don't know if I am crowning anyone, but the way I see it, it is Fisher and IC, and then everyone else. It is just a prediction. Isn't that what this board is for.

    I am hoping that I can catch some of the Fisher game on live stats or something tongiht, but tomorrow the game is supposed to be available to watch online. I can't wait to get the season started.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 19, 2010, 05:31:23 PM
    St. John Fisher game just tipped off. Live stats available at this link:

    http://www.sidearmstats.com/cnu/mbball/index.htm
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Hugenerd on November 19, 2010, 09:07:51 PM
    Watch out for Elmira...They picked up an impressive road win tonight over an NCAA team from a year ago and the preseason Commonwealth Conference favorite, Albright.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 19, 2010, 11:02:20 PM
    Quote from: hugenerd on November 19, 2010, 09:07:51 PM
    Watch out for Elmira...They picked up an impressive road win tonigt over an NCAA team from a year ago and the preseason Commonwealth Conference favorite, Albright.

    This game was actually on a neutral court as it was the Franklin & Marshall Tip off Tournament. Now Elmira gets to play a real road game as they take on the Diplomats tomorrow night who beat Penn State-Abington 91-50. The line would probably be Elmira +17.  

    Elmira got handled pretty good by a visiting Cortland team the other night that will probably finish in the middle of the pack in the SUNYAC conference. I don't think Elmira will make the E8 tournament at year's end.

    Surprised at the St John Fisher result. I would have bet on the Cardinals to win that game over Mary Washington. Fisher hit the 1st basket for a 2-0 lead, the Eagles respond with a triple and Fisher never saw the lead again. Down by double digits at the break 35-23, they twice cut it to 9 early in the 2nd, but then fell behind by 15 at the 12:30 mark and it only got worse from that point on. Not a good night for New York St. Cardinal BB teams as Plattsburgh dropped a tough game to Western Connecticut St. 86-80.  

    Elsewhere Nazareth beats Oneonta St on a neutral court 65-51 In the Dickinson Tip Off Tournament. Nazareth will take on host Dickison tomorrow for the championship.
    Oneonta faces Messiah College in the consolation game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 20, 2010, 08:41:26 AM
    You guys are right, that's exactly what these boards are for, so predict away... Just as I do............I guess if I said YES on paper it looks like IC and Fisher will be the teams to beat, rather than use the word annoint I would be correct...The point I guess I am looking to make is be careful with form in this league... Yes on paper they look like the teams to beat...BUT many other factors come in during the year that change what's on  paper.   Like how Freshman play, injuries, good nights and bad nights... ref's making calls that decide games... we've all been there right or wrong...........and the fact that upsets do happen in this league from time to time..........There I feel better .....  What happened to Fisher last night... anyone see the game or have some input..............Cyclone any input on the Ducks, numbers look impressive except the Turnovers........I heard Hunter is pretty bad, not to take away from Ducks win........  How is Paterson-- todays game.. Paterson has received votes for top 25............
    Oh yea the Tigers look like they will breeze through the league this year................OOPS... That's not meant to annoint them... Just kidding...Good luck...we all need to win the non league games to help-- come NCAA time...........BUT ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 20, 2010, 10:10:07 AM
    Well I was disapointed to see the outcome of Fisher's first game. What a let down. I noticed that Jason Norsen did not play. Does anyone know why?
    Title: Predictions
    Post by: E8GUY on November 20, 2010, 02:25:14 PM
    I understand and agree Ithaca and SJF will be in the top four.  As I said in the summer, watch out for Hartwick, I fully expect them in the top four, they are a program to watch out for.

    I saw Elmiras game against SUNY-Cortand and the game was closer than the score, Elmira folded badly in the last ten minutes.  And yes, for 2010 the top teams in the league don't have a great deal to worry about here but the freshman are clearly the most talented guys on the team and show that Torgalski can attract a higher caliber of player to Elmira.   

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 20, 2010, 04:06:57 PM
    Bombers won yesterday against Grove City.  Currently down 4 with 11 minutes to go against Penn State Behrend.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 20, 2010, 05:56:54 PM
    Hunter is a miserably bad team so there isn't too much to write about the Ducks that is really credible.  Game against William Paterson tonight will be a much more telling game about how the Ducks stack up at this point.  I expect the NJAC power to get a win tonight because, even at home, Stevens is a little too young at the guard spots and not athletic enough to match up with them.  However, I will be very interested to see how Stevens matches up, as I think William Paterson is easily the most athletic and probably the best team the Ducks will play this season, close second going to Ithaca/Fisher.

    I should be live at the game tonight so I'll have a detailed recap once I make the trek back home from Hoboken.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 20, 2010, 07:55:49 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 20, 2010, 04:06:57 PM
    Bombers won yesterday against Grove City.  Currently down 4 with 11 minutes to go against Penn State Behrend.
    Bombers fell today to Penn State Behrend.  Looks like Barera was in foul trouble as he fouled out in only 21 minutes.  PSB went 22-8 last season so they are a solid team.  The Bombers next play against Oswego the Sunday after Thanksgiving.

    Look at the Bombers' roster picture:
    http://bombers.ithaca.edu/roster.aspx?path=mbasket

    Is Barera standing in a hole or something?!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on November 20, 2010, 10:06:41 PM
    UC Pioneers had a nice win against SUNY IT Friday night. Tied at the half, UC, lead by James Paterson w/ 21 on 8-15, 5-9 and Kevin Johnson w/ 17 on 6-12,1-4, 4-5 lead all the way after the first minute of the second half and finished with a 12 point win at 75 - 63.  David Golembiowski had 29 (11-25, 4-13, 3-5) and Calvin Logins had 12 w/ 8 FT for IT.

    The UC defense played well throughout, particularly in the second half, holding IT to 30/17% for the period, 33/27% overall.  Johnson and Paterson each had 4 steals and Jeff Ward had 14 rebounds for the Pioneers.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 20, 2010, 10:38:26 PM
    As expected Elmira just didn't have the horses to run with Franklin & Marshall as the Diplomats coasted to a 96-52 win over the Soaring Eagles. F&M opened up with a 13-2 run and it only got worse from that point on. The Diplomats were led by their All American candidate James McNally who scored 25 pts in 25 minutes. EJosh Keys with 12 and Kurt Dutcher with 11 had double figures for Elmira.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 21, 2010, 12:31:00 AM
    I figured we would learn a lot about the Ducks tonight and I think we did.  Impressive 63-52 win over a very athletic, but not very well coached William Paterson team.  I have to amend my earlier comment, after getting a second look at Paterson they are easily the most physically imposing and athletic team Stevens will play, but I think Ithaca and Fisher would both beat W.P. also.

    Key to the game was defense for Stevens.  They still rely heavily on help responsibility but held WP under 40% shooting from field and 3-15 or something like that from 3.  Offensively the Ducks were bothered by William Paterson's full court pressure but were solid in the half court.  Sheldon Jones, tournament MVP, is emerging as Stevens go to player.  He is learning how to create his own shot and is a train in the open court. 

    Hurley seems to have set the rotation.  Thompson, Cutri, Jones, Smith, and Franklin start, with Sabbatino, McManamy, and Skrelja off the bench.  That means the team is relying on 1 senior, 2 juniors, 2 sophomores, and 3 freshmen off the bench to lead the way.  Very young.

    Might just be coincidence but I noticed a good number of alum from the '07 Sweet 16 team on/behind the bench to start the year.  Waleed Farid, Mike Collins, and Floyd Morris were all on the bench or right behind it for the tournament, with Collins being the only one listed as a coach.  Could just be guys making early appearance in the season, but, given the youth of the team, it wouldn't be the worst thing to have some of the alumni guys around to help out, particularly at their positions (Farid for Cutri/Jones, Morris for Thompson/Skrelja). 

    Still think the Ducks will surprise some people, really will depend on how the freshman grow up and the continued emergence of Jones as a go to guy for them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: E8Hoops04 on November 21, 2010, 07:50:46 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on November 20, 2010, 10:06:41 PM
    UC Pioneers had a nice win against SUNY IT Friday night. Tied at the half, UC, lead by James Paterson w/ 21 on 8-15, 5-9 and Kevin Johnson w/ 17 on 6-12,1-4, 4-5 lead all the way after the first minute of the second half and finished with a 12 point win at 75 - 63.  David Golembiowski had 29 (11-25, 4-13, 3-5) and Calvin Logins had 12 w/ 8 FT for IT.

    The UC defense played well throughout, particularly in the second half, holding IT to 30/17% for the period, 33/27% overall.  Johnson and Paterson each had 4 steals and Jeff Ward had 14 rebounds for the Pioneers.




    SUNY-IT was ranked number 19 nationally going into the game. Impressive victory for the Pioneers who have started 2-0 with both games on the road.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 21, 2010, 02:44:48 PM
    Quote from: E8Hoops04 on November 21, 2010, 07:50:46 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on November 20, 2010, 10:06:41 PM
    UC Pioneers had a nice win against SUNY IT Friday night. Tied at the half, UC, lead by James Paterson w/ 21 on 8-15, 5-9 and Kevin Johnson w/ 17 on 6-12,1-4, 4-5 lead all the way after the first minute of the second half and finished with a 12 point win at 75 - 63.  David Golembiowski had 29 (11-25, 4-13, 3-5) and Calvin Logins had 12 w/ 8 FT for IT.

    The UC defense played well throughout, particularly in the second half, holding IT to 30/17% for the period, 33/27% overall.  Johnson and Paterson each had 4 steals and Jeff Ward had 14 rebounds for the Pioneers.




    SUNY-IT was ranked number 19 nationally going into the game. Impressive victory for the Pioneers who have started 2-0 with both games on the road.

    Who had SUNYIT at #19 in the nation? ??? The only ranking that matters, D3hoops Top 25 had them getting 7 pts. in the Others Receiving Votes category in the Pre Season Poll. And that was probably based on the success they had last year. It's a good start for Utica, winning their 1st two games on the road, but it's not like they beat a top tier program with either of these victories.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on November 21, 2010, 03:20:56 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 21, 2010, 02:44:48 PM
    Quote from: E8Hoops04 on November 21, 2010, 07:50:46 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on November 20, 2010, 10:06:41 PM
    UC Pioneers had a nice win against SUNY IT Friday night. Tied at the half, UC, lead by James Paterson w/ 21 on 8-15, 5-9 and Kevin Johnson w/ 17 on 6-12,1-4, 4-5 lead all the way after the first minute of the second half and finished with a 12 point win at 75 - 63.  David Golembiowski had 29 (11-25, 4-13, 3-5) and Calvin Logins had 12 w/ 8 FT for IT.

    The UC defense played well throughout, particularly in the second half, holding IT to 30/17% for the period, 33/27% overall.  Johnson and Paterson each had 4 steals and Jeff Ward had 14 rebounds for the Pioneers.




    SUNY-IT was ranked number 19 nationally going into the game. Impressive victory for the Pioneers who have started 2-0 with both games on the road.

    Who had SUNYIT at #19 in the nation? ??? The only ranking that matters, D3hoops Top 25 had them getting 7 pts. in the Others Receiving Votes category in the Pre Season Poll. And that was probably based on the success they had last year. It's a good start for Utica, winning their 1st two games on the road, but it's not like they beat a top tier program with either of these victories.

    Agree preseason rankings mean nothing and yes, UC will be facing tougher challenges but the IT website says DIII News had them at 19 preseason?  And they do put a legitimate All American candidate on the floor in Golembiowski. 

    Forget the ranking, it was a good win and a confidence builder for the Pioneers.  We'll take it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: E8Hoops04 on November 21, 2010, 07:25:55 PM
    Also, Empire8.com's headline on the story says "Utica Men's Basketball topples 19th-ranked SUNY IT".
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: E8Hoops04 on November 21, 2010, 07:27:52 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 21, 2010, 02:44:48 PM
    Quote from: E8Hoops04 on November 21, 2010, 07:50:46 AM
    Quote from: reelentless on November 20, 2010, 10:06:41 PM
    UC Pioneers had a nice win against SUNY IT Friday night. Tied at the half, UC, lead by James Paterson w/ 21 on 8-15, 5-9 and Kevin Johnson w/ 17 on 6-12,1-4, 4-5 lead all the way after the first minute of the second half and finished with a 12 point win at 75 - 63.  David Golembiowski had 29 (11-25, 4-13, 3-5) and Calvin Logins had 12 w/ 8 FT for IT.

    The UC defense played well throughout, particularly in the second half, holding IT to 30/17% for the period, 33/27% overall.  Johnson and Paterson each had 4 steals and Jeff Ward had 14 rebounds for the Pioneers.




    SUNY-IT was ranked number 19 nationally going into the game. Impressive victory for the Pioneers who have started 2-0 with both games on the road.

    Who had SUNYIT at #19 in the nation? ??? The only ranking that matters, D3hoops Top 25 had them getting 7 pts. in the Others Receiving Votes category in the Pre Season Poll. And that was probably based on the success they had last year. It's a good start for Utica, winning their 1st two games on the road, but it's not like they beat a top tier program with either of these victories.


    I agree that pre-season rankings don't mean much, but when it comes selection time, if UC surprises and puts together a solid resume, these early season road victories including one over a ranked team are a big help.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 21, 2010, 08:04:25 PM
    Quote from: E8Hoops04 on November 21, 2010, 07:25:55 PM
    Also, Empire8.com's headline on the story says "Utica Men's Basketball topples 19th-ranked SUNY IT".

    Wishful thinking. ;)
    As I mentioned earlier the only rankings that really matter are the D3hoops rankings.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 22, 2010, 07:19:36 AM
    Wow, Utica wins two games and already they're an at large contender! Now I don't actually know how good Utica is but unless they resigned..I mean re-enrolled Ray Bryant again then I would think the max number of wins to expect would be 17-18.  They were just not good last year.  And are these the same boards people had Utica listed in LAST place in the E8 this year?!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: E8Hoops04 on November 22, 2010, 10:59:54 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 22, 2010, 07:19:36 AM
    Wow, Utica wins two games and already they're an at large contender! Now I don't actually know how good Utica is but unless they resigned..I mean re-enrolled Ray Bryant again then I would think the max number of wins to expect would be 17-18.  They were just not good last year.  And are these the same boards people had Utica listed in LAST place in the E8 this year?!


    I wasn't aware that saying "If Utica Surprises and puts together a good resume" was the same as saying that after two games they are an at large contender. Of course, exaggerated hyperbole is what one would expect from someone who is insincere enough to suggest that a Coach with the integrity of Andrew Goodemote would have a paid player in his program, especially since the player in question lived just a few miles from the campus.

    Utica is a question mark, no doubt. They struggled mightily last season. However, it was a season filled with uncertainty and extraneous variables. A new system was being learned, a large turnover in the roster, injuries, academic issues etc... were prevalent after a decade of stability for the program. There are still some very talented players on that roster and by the looks of them physically, they put in some hard work in the offseason.

    Who knows what will happen this season? I know I don't. But I do know that quality wins early on are huge for the individual team and the conference as a whole. For a program that needs to take it one game at a time and keep focused, I'd say Utica has done a good job thus far.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 22, 2010, 12:40:00 PM
    First off great Job UC..... Last year you would certainly have lost those games. definitley a step in the right direction.....I am not "annointing them" just stating the obvious. Stevens beating Paterson may be telling. I did not see the game , but looking at the box score some concerns. One is what happened to Smith.......I will tell you not getting him the ball down low will hurt this team big time. I don't know if that was the case but Smith didn't do much scoring here. Looks like Thompson and Cutri are not burning up the 3's. Which maybe they don't have to. They look like they are rebounding weel, and shooting well too, except the 3's. So as cyclone says, maybe they will find some way to have a winning record.... OR is Paterson over-rated.....   So the annointed ones ( just kidding) IC and Fisher tough starts......... remember what I said no consistency in this league......But ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on November 22, 2010, 01:17:39 PM
    Hard for Smith to score or get involved when he is playing 15-20 feet from the basket at the top of the key in offense being run.  He was able to get a few assists from there. Also being out of the game for the last 6 or 7 minutes of each halve would cut down on his effectiveness. ???
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 22, 2010, 02:21:14 PM
    OLD DUCK 100 % right.  For this team to thrive they need Smith on the court for 30+ minutes. He didn't appear to be in foul trouble, not sure of the diminished minutes. He had 7 turnovers, could that should not have layed a part. He's a monster of the boards, especially the offensive boards.  The E-8 will shut down Cutria and Thompson may have ahard time getting off his shot.  Jones may get his 12 a night, but your right Smith needs to play and get the ball down low.... He got it last year despite the "Wisconsin" offense... everyone plays inside and outside, sort of...Hang in there OLD DUCK.... again not sure of the rationale for minuites but they need him in there and he will be....   This team is funny, it has the pieces to be in the mix and maybe upset some of the annointed ones, but it also has the ability to lose to some of the lower teams... UC can be upstart with Hartwick which could puts the Ducks in a bit of mess. But always remember anything can happen in this league. But ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on November 22, 2010, 03:39:41 PM
    Under control Jones could help Stevens a lot. He played well Friday and Saturday. Like Smith he was out of the game at odd times on Saturday, on the bench when Stevens was struggling against the press in the second half. You are right that Stevens has the pieces to be in the mix. What the returning starters do has been talked about already. Franklin looks to be healthy and more mobile his senior year. McManamy had a good game on Saturday.  A good 6'5" outside shooter and he mixed it up inside for the first time Saturday night.   Sabatino and Skrelja will see a good number of minutes and should contribute.  Having Jones, Smith and Sabatino in the lineup at the same time gives Stevens a great offensive opportunity to run the ball if they chose.  Problem is their guards do not look up the floor very often.  All that being said the key to their season is if someone ( Thompson or Skrelja) can step up as the point guard. They need someone to run the offense and distribute the ball.  I am not that impressed with the win over Willaim Paterson. They looked out of sync the entire game. The only offense they generated was off the press in the second half. I thought that Baruch was a better team then WP. Stevens biggest test outside of the E8 will be Kean on 11/29.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 22, 2010, 06:01:33 PM
    I am getting on the boards for the first time in a few days, so I am sorry if this has already been covered. I have to say that I did not see Fisher's 0-2 start coming. I have been looking at the teams profiles, and I don't see anything that would make me think that Fisher would struggle the way they did.

    Does anyone have any ideas as to why they have started so slow? I did see that Norsen did not play in either game, and that Kramer did not make the trip, but still. Any ideas?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: E8Hoops04 on November 22, 2010, 07:09:52 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 22, 2010, 06:01:33 PM
    I am getting on the boards for the first time in a few days, so I am sorry if this has already been covered. I have to say that I did not see Fisher's 0-2 start coming. I have been looking at the teams profiles, and I don't see anything that would make me think that Fisher would struggle the way they did.

    Does anyone have any ideas as to why they have started so slow? I did see that Norsen did not play in either game, and that Kramer did not make the trip, but still. Any ideas?


    I think it is because the teams they played scored more points than they did...


    Seriously though, I am surprised as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 22, 2010, 07:23:11 PM
    E8Hoops --

    I went to Goodemote's basketball camp for about 5 years and played against him for 2 and have nothing but good things to say about the guy.  He is an excellent coach and is a class act.  It was a joke about Ray Bryant.  They have had several players come back to play in their late 20's so it wasn't a one time deal.  Obviously I was kidding though.  But seriously who would have guessed Fisher would be 0-2 and Utica would be 2-0? 

    The E8 seems to be pretty strong from top to bottom this year with every team having bright spots.  My early Bomber prediction of 21-22 wins is probably about 2-3 games higher than it will end up but oh well.  12-4 is probably realistic in the conference and I would expect another non-conference loss.  Hopefully the quick post-Thanksgiving turnaround (game Sunday afternoon) doesn't affect them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on November 22, 2010, 09:48:59 PM
    Potsdam played Utica without the Bears IMHO best player (A. Williams) and their most effective point guard (Josh Lambert) and the outcome was only decided on the last play of the game.

    Utica is a solid team, they have an excellent guard in Patterson, Quality size & inside bulk in Ward, Abrams & Whyte.  Didn't have a lot of obvious flaws, & their win over SUNYIT is convincing.

    I think, unless U of R is completely loaded, that the EAST is wide open this year, and the hottest team at the end of the season will go far.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: E8Hoops04 on November 23, 2010, 10:19:20 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 22, 2010, 07:23:11 PM
    E8Hoops --

    I went to Goodemote's basketball camp for about 5 years and played against him for 2 and have nothing but good things to say about the guy.  He is an excellent coach and is a class act.  It was a joke about Ray Bryant.  They have had several players come back to play in their late 20's so it wasn't a one time deal.  Obviously I was kidding though.  But seriously who would have guessed Fisher would be 0-2 and Utica would be 2-0? 

    The E8 seems to be pretty strong from top to bottom this year with every team having bright spots.  My early Bomber prediction of 21-22 wins is probably about 2-3 games higher than it will end up but oh well.  12-4 is probably realistic in the conference and I would expect another non-conference loss.  Hopefully the quick post-Thanksgiving turnaround (game Sunday afternoon) doesn't affect them.


    I'm glad that was a joke!

    There certainly have been a lot of surprises in the early season. Should be fun as always to see it all unfold.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 23, 2010, 11:12:15 AM
    I say thi completely on the blind, since I haven't even seen a box score of the Fisher hgames, But in a earlier Post I believe I said Fishers weakness could be at the guard position. They are not quick.  Not great handles... BUT someone tell me that is not the reason they are not performing up to expectations.. I will believe you, since I am working blind here, and that's not fair, I know.  Old Duck good observations about Stevens. I hate to sound like a broken record, But again in an earlier post I said they would be in trouble because this year they don't ahve a guard with enough guts to make the long pass, or lead pass, or try and thread a needle like they had last year. In order for the Ducks to flourish they need inside presence, and that would be Smith getting the ball. He only bneeds it in the paint and he finds a way. IF this haapens THEN Cutri and Thompson will have better outside looks.. So it is in the guards and coaches hands to have that happen. Bear, UC is impressing me..... what's the difference between last year and this year. Paterson did not look all that good or I should I say consistant last year. I know Stevens shut him down pretty good both times they played. BUT ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 23, 2010, 12:19:07 PM
    By the way my Tigers open tonight.  College of Staten Island...  Going to be tough, but hope to get over there.......I'll let you guys know what they bring to the table...... I know you can hardly wait.... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 23, 2010, 08:08:43 PM
    Fisher is struggling again tonight. Not Rebounding, and not hitting free throws. Down Double Digits late in the first half. Not much going right for Fisher early in the year. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 23, 2010, 09:45:34 PM
    Fisher was able to come back from 13 down tonight, and pulled out a 80-75 win over Brockport. Still worried about Fisher, but at least they got their first win.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 24, 2010, 07:27:17 AM
    cards,
    for a team that was picked to win the e8, they are playing absolutely horrible.
    what gives?
    pg play?
    size?
    this team needs a shot in the arm or a kick in the ass
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 24, 2010, 08:30:30 AM
    here we go again......... RE: Tigers...I was at the game....we just are not prepared in the beginning of the season. we don't have a personality, WE SHADOW BOX, RATHER THAN GO TO THE THROAT...Hey, Staten Island won..and I believe that's a step in the right direction for them. They are 3-0 and who knows, they could be a factor in their league....The stats basically mirror each other for this game as does the score except for 3 pts. I don't know, I watch the other team and they seem to have a plan. I watch us and we seem to be feeling our way through........Again, I like a floor general, and we don't have that.........This team better wake up fast if they don't want to be needing a late run to finish in top 4...... I know I know only 1 game, BUT I am beginning to get frustrated.   I need some feedback on Fisher, and Stevens last night..... Both won, which is good.... how were their opponents. I see Stevens held on for dear life against FDU ......typically not a strong team....Any one have info... Cyclone, Old Duck??? ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 24, 2010, 01:55:38 PM
    In case you missed it. Skidmore wins the longest game in Division III history last night as they beat Southern Vermont 128-123 in SEVEN overtime periods. Previous record was a 5 OT game. See my post on the Liberty League board. ESPN did a story on the game. Here's the link:

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5846042&categoryid=2459792
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 24, 2010, 02:07:29 PM
    There was good news and bad news for Fisher last night. The bad news is that they struggled,again, against a team I would expect them to beat. They really struggle with size inside and can't seem to rebound or defend the three very well. But, the goodd news is they showed something during gut check time. Fisher had several chances to fold up shop (down double digits several times in the 2nd half) but they were able to pull it out.
    They played without Norsen again last night. Not sure what is going on there but they need to get him back to help inside. They look like they are trying to find themselves, but hopefully last night gets them into a roll going forward.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 25, 2010, 10:50:52 AM
    Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the boards and all of your families...Have a great Holiday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 25, 2010, 01:08:15 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 25, 2010, 10:50:52 AM
    Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the boards and all of your families...Have a great Holiday.

    Ditto! ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 28, 2010, 12:12:09 PM
    Wow we need some games to be played here. The holiday is great, but lets get something going on here.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: whatisee on November 28, 2010, 05:05:46 PM
    Hey bloggers, new to this site. Have been following the conversation for some time, and here's what I see. Have checked out a few Saxon games, and wonder if anyone has the same take-they seem to be living and dying by the 3. Is this Alfred's typical style of play?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 28, 2010, 07:13:23 PM
    In a mild upset Ithaca loses to visiting Oswego State 95-83. I thought these 2 teams were evenly matched but that the Bombers would prevail on their home court. Oswego  spurt at the end of the 1st half put the Lakers up by 11 at 46-35. Bombers would get it to single digits on numerous occasions even cutting it to 3 a couple of times but Oswego would always build it back up to 10 or 11 pts. The Lakers grabbed their biggest lead with 6:17 remaining at 76-61, only to have Ithaca come fighting back to within 3 once again at 85-82 with 1:15 left. Bombers fouled, Oswego hit both free throws and subsequently went on to hit 10 ft's in a row for your final of 95-83.

    Both teams placed 4 players in double figures in the high scoring affair. Oswego's Chad Burridge was the games high scorer with 28 pts and Chad Monaghan was next with 20. Chris Gilkes had 15 and Sean Michele added 11.

    Laker outshot the Bombers 49% to 38%, won the battle of the boards 44 to 40, had 12 turnovers to 14 for Ithaca, and 9 steals to 5. Lakers hit 24 of 32 free throws (75%) while Ithaca made 22 of 28 (79%). Oswego shot 7x20 from behind the arc (35%) and the Bombers made 11 of 29 (38%).   

    Jordan Marcus led the Bombers with 21 pts and Phil Barera had a double-double of 18 pts and 10 rebounds. Andrie Oztemel added 16 pts and Chris Cruz-Rivas chipped in with 15. Sean Rossi dished out 10 assists.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 28, 2010, 09:50:38 PM
    A tough draw for Fisher for next weeks Wendy's College Classic. Fisher will play at home against U of R in the first round, with the winner/loser taking on the winner/loser of the Hobart/SUNY Geneseo game. According to the text message from the Fisher website Fisher is the 2 seed, and U of R is the 5th, but I don't know how that could be, with U of R being a solid 4-1, and Fisher being a disappointing  1-2.

    Should be a pretty fun tournament next week.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 29, 2010, 08:10:56 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 28, 2010, 09:50:38 PM
    A tough draw for Fisher for next weeks Wendy's College Classic. Fisher will play at home against U of R in the first round, with the winner/loser taking on the winner/loser of the Hobart/SUNY Geneseo game. According to the text message from the Fisher website Fisher is the 2 seed, and U of R is the 5th, but I don't know how that could be, with U of R being a solid 4-1, and Fisher being a disappointing  1-2.

    Should be a pretty fun tournament next week.

    The U of R site says that the format changed this year to reduce the chance of teams from the same conference meeting in the early rounds.  The addition of Hobart allows the tournament to be grouped by Empire8, Liberty, SUNY and Independents.  Bottom line is I don't think the teams are really "seeded" as in the past.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 29, 2010, 10:30:36 AM
    Happy belated Thanksgiving to all on the site...........Been traveling a lot this last week........ First to "whatisee", I wouldn't say they rely on 3's that much but didn't distribute the ball much the last few years.  I really can't speak too much on them as I don't see them much though...  IC loses at home.... I see they are still throwing up a lot of 3's..... Again, I know the IC guys will get their backs up when I mention this but Rossi 10 assists...???  Game was at IC I would guess....... Is he capable of that many assist in a game   sure I believe he is, however... I am going to look at his assist on the road as compared to home. I don't believe they are padding the number, I just think they are not sure of what an assist is...and tend to give the benefit of the doubt....  Why do I care?  I really don't but I saw Rossi play last year and while he is OK at the point he needs a lot of work...I believe Burton's assist were legit, from what I saw, they must have a new event staff at IC.   That being said, this is not important enough to debate..........I will bow to the IC fans who think otherwise, since they watch IC a whole lot more than me.   The E-8 has been pretty dissapointing overall, My Tigers included.  IC, Fisher ...Stevens has a tell tale game I believe this evening against Kean....Not a bad team, but Stevens should win..if they are going to be competitive in E-8. I am interested in seeing Hartwick has anyone seen what they are up to.. I haven't even looked at who they played thus far. ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 29, 2010, 02:01:52 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 29, 2010, 10:30:36 AM
    Happy belated Thanksgiving to all on the site...........Been traveling a lot this last week........ First to "whatisee", I wouldn't say they rely on 3's that much but didn't distribute the ball much the last few years.  I really can't speak too much on them as I don't see them much though...  IC loses at home.... I see they are still throwing up a lot of 3's..... Again, I know the IC guys will get their backs up when I mention this but Rossi 10 assists...???  Game was at IC I would guess....... Is he capable of that many assist in a game   sure I believe he is, however... I am going to look at his assist on the road as compared to home. I don't believe they are padding the number, I just think they are not sure of what an assist is...and tend to give the benefit of the doubt....  Why do I care?  I really don't but I saw Rossi play last year and while he is OK at the point he needs a lot of work...I believe Burton's assist were legit, from what I saw, they must have a new event staff at IC.   That being said, this is not important enough to debate..........I will bow to the IC fans who think otherwise, since they watch IC a whole lot more than me.  

    Let's finally end this Rossi nonsense once and for all so people will stop casually accusing Ithaca of padding his stats. But we can't look at just raw assist numbers. We need to look at assists in relation to FG's by other players, since it's possible that a team may score more at home. So the real question is, what percentage of FG's by other players is Rossi credited with an assist on?

    Rossi career numbers


    Road/Neutral site games: 148 assists on 474 FG's by other players (31.2%)
    Home: 111 assists on 359 FG's (30.9%)

    Hey, look at that. Not only were Rossi's numbers not padded at home, they're WORSE at home. He's LESS likely to get credited with an assist at home than he is on the road.

    So take your "Is he capable of 10 assists" and shove it. This is the second time someone's brought up the idea of Ithaca padding Rossi's stats. And it's ****ing me off. Yes, assists, like tackles, are sometimes a judgment call. But there's absolutely no statistical evidence to back up your claim. There's no great Rossi conspiracy. I loved how you're like "I don't really care" after spending about six lines of text talking about it.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 29, 2010, 02:24:47 PM
    I knew someone would get insulted.....  Your right I did spend too much time on the issue, which really isn't an issue...... Your wrong about me caring... think about it what's in it for me. Just an observation...I trust your research, so that will shut me up because I wouldn't want to have you *&%*ed off.. too many more important things in life... Just meant for SPRITE CONVERSATION... evidently the conversation is SPRITE.    This assist thing and Rossi came up last year when somehow his # of assits in a game didn't really make sense. I've seen him play and I think he is an OK point guard, I think what he brings to the table for IC is he is one of the few guys who doesn't take a 3, (or too many) which allows the others to. Are you sure IC doesn't bring there own stat crew to away games? ;D EASY JUST KIDDING..RELAX.   I am sure Rossi is a nice kid and will get even better as his career goes on.... As you state many more things to speak about other than Rossi... he's not high on the list.....   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 29, 2010, 02:46:33 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 29, 2010, 02:24:47 PM
    I knew someone would get insulted.....  Your right I did spend too much time on the issue, which really isn't an issue...... Your wrong about me caring... think about it what's in it for me. Just an observation...I trust your research, so that will shut me up because I wouldn't want to have you *&%*ed off.. too many more important things in life... Just meant for SPRITE CONVERSATION... evidently the conversation is SPRITE.    This assist thing and Rossi came up last year when somehow his # of assits in a game didn't really make sense. I've seen him play and I think he is an OK point guard, I think what he brings to the table for IC is he is one of the few guys who doesn't take a 3, (or too many) which allows the others to. Are you sure IC doesn't bring there own stat crew to away games? ;D EASY JUST KIDDING..RELAX.   I am sure Rossi is a nice kid and will get even better as his career goes on.... As you state many more things to speak about other than Rossi... he's not high on the list.....  

    Here's the thing: I could care less about people's opinion's of Rossi. Frankly, I could care less about Rossi and the basketball team in general. The issue with stat-padding (to me) is not about Sean Rossi's legacy and never was

    What you--and others--have done is essentially accused Ithaca's Sports Info office of engaging in intentional deception. And that's flat out wrong. Yes, mistakes can get made--I've had my share of unintentional screw ups, and as I said, assists are a judgment call. But as a journalist, I have a major problem with people insinuating that Ithaca College is just making up statistics. If you're going to tacitly accuse an office of willfully encouraging professional dishonesty, don't hide behind "It's just meant to start a discussion" crap.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on November 29, 2010, 02:56:27 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 29, 2010, 02:24:47 PM
    Just meant for SPRITE CONVERSATION... evidently the conversation is SPRITE.

    What. The. Hell.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 29, 2010, 03:03:41 PM
    Now, as far as Rossi and the rest of the team goes, the Bombers have been moderately disappointing this season. The defense and rebounding has been poor (even by Ithaca standards) and the freshman haven't made a big impact. Grier, for all this athleticism, is shooting 20% from the floor and 50% from the line. Christian Jordan's hit some shots, but is still only at about 35% from the floor. Sweeney's not even getting on the court.

    Ithaca's depth is even worse than last season's, as the top 7 players have seen 95.5% of the minutes.

    The Bombers are shooting the lights out from three (41.5%), but the defense has killed them
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 29, 2010, 06:00:55 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 29, 2010, 08:10:56 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 28, 2010, 09:50:38 PM
    A tough draw for Fisher for next weeks Wendy's College Classic. Fisher will play at home against U of R in the first round, with the winner/loser taking on the winner/loser of the Hobart/SUNY Geneseo game. According to the text message from the Fisher website Fisher is the 2 seed, and U of R is the 5th, but I don't know how that could be, with U of R being a solid 4-1, and Fisher being a disappointing  1-2.

    Should be a pretty fun tournament next week.

    The U of R site says that the format changed this year to reduce the chance of teams from the same conference meeting in the early rounds.  The addition of Hobart allows the tournament to be grouped by Empire8, Liberty, SUNY and Independents.  Bottom line is I don't think the teams are really "seeded" as in the past.

    I did read that on the U of R site as well. I don't like it. There was a cool feel to the old Chase/Wendy's tournament in the past. You had a good idea of what teams had to offer, and the seedings and matchups made it more like an NCAA tournament than some ho-hum mid season tournament. I really liked the old format better. Did anyone have a real big problem with teams from the same conference meeting in the first few rounds?

    I love the addition of Hobart ( I guess it is more of a rebirth of Hobart), but I really question why they have changed the seeding process.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 29, 2010, 06:18:27 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 29, 2010, 10:30:36 AM
    Happy belated Thanksgiving to all on the site...........Been traveling a lot this last week........ First to "whatisee", I wouldn't say they rely on 3's that much but didn't distribute the ball much the last few years.  I really can't speak too much on them as I don't see them much though...  IC loses at home.... I see they are still throwing up a lot of 3's..... Again, I know the IC guys will get their backs up when I mention this but Rossi 10 assists...???  Game was at IC I would guess....... Is he capable of that many assist in a game   sure I believe he is, however... I am going to look at his assist on the road as compared to home. I don't believe they are padding the number, I just think they are not sure of what an assist is...and tend to give the benefit of the doubt....  Why do I care?  I really don't but I saw Rossi play last year and while he is OK at the point he needs a lot of work...I believe Burton's assist were legit, from what I saw, they must have a new event staff at IC.   That being said, this is not important enough to debate..........I will bow to the IC fans who think otherwise, since they watch IC a whole lot more than me.   The E-8 has been pretty dissapointing overall, My Tigers included.  IC, Fisher ...Stevens has a tell tale game I believe this evening against Kean....Not a bad team, but Stevens should win..if they are going to be competitive in E-8. I am interested in seeing Hartwick has anyone seen what they are up to.. I haven't even looked at who they played thus far. ;)     

    2-2 so far with a loss (14 points I believe) to Geneseo.  Also, I think they have 9-10 freshman on the roster so I guess the coach is bringing in "his" guys. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 29, 2010, 06:21:19 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 29, 2010, 06:00:55 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 29, 2010, 08:10:56 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 28, 2010, 09:50:38 PM
    A tough draw for Fisher for next weeks Wendy's College Classic. Fisher will play at home against U of R in the first round, with the winner/loser taking on the winner/loser of the Hobart/SUNY Geneseo game. According to the text message from the Fisher website Fisher is the 2 seed, and U of R is the 5th, but I don't know how that could be, with U of R being a solid 4-1, and Fisher being a disappointing  1-2.

    Should be a pretty fun tournament next week.

    The U of R site says that the format changed this year to reduce the chance of teams from the same conference meeting in the early rounds.  The addition of Hobart allows the tournament to be grouped by Empire8, Liberty, SUNY and Independents.  Bottom line is I don't think the teams are really "seeded" as in the past.

    I did read that on the U of R site as well. I don't like it. There was a cool feel to the old Chase/Wendy's tournament in the past. You had a good idea of what teams had to offer, and the seedings and matchups made it more like an NCAA tournament than some ho-hum mid season tournament. I really liked the old format better. Did anyone have a real big problem with teams from the same conference meeting in the first few rounds?

    I love the addition of Hobart ( I guess it is more of a rebirth of Hobart), but I really question why they have changed the seeding process.

    Yeah, who knows why they do what they do.  I like that Hobart is rejoining as well.  I also don't like the move to early December.  I liked the Chase in January when you had a little better idea of what your team had. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 29, 2010, 06:55:48 PM
    FROMAFAR - don't take it personal.  Although you were wrong, people on these boards will jump on you over the slightest misstep, which is one of the reasons I don't spend much time on here anymore.  Every comment gets trampled on and someone comes back with a snide remark.  Was it an intelligent or well thought out post? No, it wasn't.  But it didn't deserve that response.  Take your bad day out on somewhere else. 

    I didn't know the Wendy's tournament was this early in the year.  Not sure what I think about that other than I don't think I like it.  Oh well, its better than no tournament at all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 29, 2010, 08:11:22 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 29, 2010, 06:55:48 PM
    FROMAFAR - don't take it personal.  Although you were wrong, people on these boards will jump on you over the slightest misstep, which is one of the reasons I don't spend much time on here anymore.  Every comment gets trampled on and someone comes back with a snide remark.  Was it an intelligent or well thought out post? No, it wasn't.  But it didn't deserve that response.  Take your bad day out on somewhere else.  

    I didn't know the Wendy's tournament was this early in the year.  Not sure what I think about that other than I don't think I like it.  Oh well, its better than no tournament at all.

    No-one's having a bad day. This isn't a "slight" misstep. He's essentially accusing IC's Sports Information department of making up statistics for Sean Rossi. This isn't the first time it's been done, and it's uncalled for.

    What were the 12 assists he had at Hobart? How about the school-record 17 he had at the Sudeck Tournament on Ohio? The 9 he had at Elmira? The 10 at Hartwick? The 9 he had against Brockport in the ECAC's? Are they all padding his stats too?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 29, 2010, 10:26:36 PM
    Ok, now that we've all finished our Andre Johnson-Cortland Finnegan impersonation, back to the basketball court.

    Ducks picked up a nice 80-77 win tonight at Kean.  For young teams it is good to pick up road victories and this Kean team, while not a power, is well coached and talented.  The big kid Jones is an absolute house!  Dropped 28 and 11 boards on Stevens tonight, averaging 26 and 16 for the season (only 5 games but still damn impressive.)  Not sure who in the E8 has a big that can exploit Stevens like that again, as Jones is more an NJAC/CUNY type of athlete.

    For Stevens the night belong to Cutri.  FROMAFAR and I have both been mentioning his absence, but he showed up tonight.  22 points and 4-5 from 3.  Sheldon Jones also contributed 20 points.  The Ducks are going to go as those two go.

    Worth noting, Hurley has quickly shown how "deep" the Ducks are...Cutri plays 36 of 40, Jones 35, Thompson 32.  Not sure they can get away with that.  And, as has been discussed, Smith is slowly fading out of the picture.  Only 6 shots tonight, but I must say for the knocks on Hurley's offense, Smith needs to be a MUCH better job of sealing his man after his UCLA cut, and of demanding the basketball.  It is the weird cycle..you stop getting the ball, so you stop demanding it..and because you aren't demanding it, you don't get it.  There has to be an effort made from both the guards and the bigs to work the inside game more.

    Solid contributions from Franklin and Sabbatino, who I still think is going to be a key player for this team.  11 points and 7 rebounds, including 3 critical offensive rebounds, in 14 minutes of action.  That's quality production from the freshman.


    Overall game came down to Cutri shooting well and Kean going 5-26 from 3.  Better shooting night for KU, different result, but there is no such thing as ugly W's. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 30, 2010, 08:35:06 AM
    I am not saying that IC is padding any players stats, but on that topic, padding stats happens everywhere at the DIII level. Stats don't get the scrutiny they get at higher levels, and it happens. I think the reason for it is smaller SID departments where someone may be keeping stats for a game that really does not know a lot about the sport. When I played soccer at Fisher a kid from Naz had an absurd number of assists. It wasn't until later we found out student stat keepers were giving him credits for double assists like in hockey. SIDs so a great job but they are limited by staff and budget.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 30, 2010, 08:57:04 AM
    OK let me try and be more direct. I am not a journalist, obviously, but I can see Bomber 798 etc. point.  So let me clear that up. I am not indicting anyone of being dis-honest, however I do know that those put at the table are sometimes not that knowledgeable. HOLD ON, I am not now calling anyone dumb or stupid. Mistakes happen by players and coaches why not the stat people...  Let me change some direction on Rossi's assists and anyone else. First off I apologize to Rossi for using him as an example but it seems to fit my thoughts best. For some reason as most of you on this site know, I tend to point out the play of point guards more than other positions..As you also know I like the tough gutty kid that penetrates, plays defense and has no fear with the long pass and threading needles. When I see double figure assists, I like to dissect it a bit. In IC's case, they play a style that has the point guard bringing up the ball ( of course) . He then passes to a perimeter player who shoots USUALLY right away. In Rossi's case he does a good job of penetrating and then passing back out on the perimeter .  Many of these shots are 3's in IC's case. We have discussed this before. They shoot about 30 three's a game. On a bad night they hit 8 or 9.. that's a bad night.  Rossi has the ball in hands most of the time and plays 30+ minutes a night so of those 8 three's he probably gets 5-6 assists. On a good night he can get 10+  and that's just from  3's.  That being said, I guess maybe his assists are legit but does not really mean he is a creative point guard, which is not his fault, it's the system he plays in, and he does that well. So lets understand, and Bomber 3 thanks for your input. I would never indict anyone on a site. But I do understand Bomber 798 reading it that way. OK as Cyclone said back to Basketball. Good analysis on Stevens last night. I did not see the game, but you draw a great picture and make sense. SO they are not deep, except maybe for Sabattino giving them a solid 15-20 minutes.  Cutri will be a target when E-8 begins, BUT Jones is a tough kid to stop. He's creative and finds the hole. Also, Thompson has to step it up. I think he really is a two. I saw no assists last night and maybe 7 t/o's... not sure of that number. I think he would flourish with a pure point guard along side him, like last year. Also a big change at the foul line this year so far for Ducks. I know what you mean by Smith demanding the ball. Whatever way he has to do it, he needs the ball in the paint. I think he is extremely efficient down there. BUT  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2010, 09:02:35 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 30, 2010, 08:35:06 AM
    I am not saying that IC is padding any players stats, but on that topic, padding stats happens everywhere at the DIII level. Stats don't get the scrutiny they get at higher levels, and it happens. I think the reason for it is smaller SID departments where someone may be keeping stats for a game that really does not know a lot about the sport. When I played soccer at Fisher a kid from Naz had an absurd number of assists. It wasn't until later we found out student stat keepers were giving him credits for double assists like in hockey. SIDs so a great job but they are limited by staff and budget.

    Variation on a theme:  When I was the assistant coach of our girls basketball team (high school) one of my jobs was keeping stats during games.  As we were generally much shorter than the competition, the coach placed an emphasis on rebounds, because it was an indication of how hard we were working.  And we did pretty well.  But it always amazed me to read a box score after playing a particular rival and see that their big girls (always 2-3 6 footers) invariably had 12-15 rebounds each.  Granted it was high school girls basketball and there were a fair number of missed shots, but the indication was that they got every rebound.  After I retired from coaching I went to watch a game against this team and as near as I could tell, every time one of their girls touched the ball after a shot she got credit for a rebound.  And when you are 4-8 inches taller than the competition, you touch a lot of balls.  In the long run it has no bearing on the game, but it does make you go "hmmmmm".
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 30, 2010, 09:29:27 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 30, 2010, 08:57:04 AM
    OK let me try and be more direct. I am not a journalist, obviously, but I can see Bomber 798 etc. point.  So let me clear that up. I am not indicting anyone of being dis-honest, however I do know that those put at the table are sometimes not that knowledgeable. HOLD ON, I am not now calling anyone dumb or stupid. Mistakes happen by players and coaches why not the stat people...  Let me change some direction on Rossi's assists and anyone else. First off I apologize to Rossi for using him as an example but it seems to fit my thoughts best. For some reason as most of you on this site know, I tend to point out the play of point guards more than other positions..As you also know I like the tough gutty kid that penetrates, plays defense and has no fear with the long pass and threading needles. When I see double figure assists, I like to dissect it a bit. In IC's case, they play a style that has the point guard bringing up the ball ( of course) . He then passes to a perimeter player who shoots USUALLY right away. In Rossi's case he does a good job of penetrating and then passing back out on the perimeter .  Many of these shots are 3's in IC's case. We have discussed this before. They shoot about 30 three's a game. On a bad night they hit 8 or 9.. that's a bad night.  Rossi has the ball in hands most of the time and plays 30+ minutes a night so of those 8 three's he probably gets 5-6 assists. On a good night he can get 10+  and that's just from  3's.  That being said, I guess maybe his assists are legit but does not really mean he is a creative point guard, which is not his fault, it's the system he plays in, and he does that well. So lets understand, and Bomber 3 thanks for your input. I would never indict anyone on a site. But I do understand Bomber 798 reading it that way. OK as Cyclone said back to Basketball. Good analysis on Stevens last night. I did not see the game, but you draw a great picture and make sense. SO they are not deep, except maybe for Sabattino giving them a solid 15-20 minutes.  Cutri will be a target when E-8 begins, BUT Jones is a tough kid to stop. He's creative and finds the hole. Also, Thompson has to step it up. I think he really is a two. I saw no assists last night and maybe 7 t/o's... not sure of that number. I think he would flourish with a pure point guard along side him, like last year. Also a big change at the foul line this year so far for Ducks. I know what you mean by Smith demanding the ball. Whatever way he has to do it, he needs the ball in the paint. I think he is extremely efficient down there. BUT  ;)

    I apologize if my initial response was frosty...other posters are right, sometimes people just don't know if a play is an assist, and yeah as you point out, a lot of Rossi's assists aren't exactly astounding passes. There's a lot of stuff kept on the perimeter. He's not exactly Jason Kidd over here.

    But yes, onto basketball. Bombers have got to play some defense this season. If you're hitting 41% of your threes and you're 2-2...well, what happens if that number drops to 35/36? Even two extra missed shots per game from there is huge.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on November 30, 2010, 02:32:16 PM
    Having been a stats man for the past 40 years, there is always some judgment in the stats, even the NCAA stats manual acknowledges this.

    Probably as many assists are not credited because, the spotter or the poor guy trying to watch the game and input to statcrew at the same time misses the pass. 

    As I understand it, an assist is a pass that contributes directly to helping the player making the basket.  There is no difference between a player penetrating and whipping a behind the back pass to a teammate for a dunk as there is to the same player penetrating and dishing to a wide open teammate for a sweet three from the perimeter, they are both assists. 

    I frown on assists where a player has to beat another defender before scoring, or the stat guy winks at an air ball in the paint and calls it a pass, instead of a missed shot and offensive rebound.

    I have kept stats for a 10 assist per game player (Mike Deane) and he had many of his assists on fast breaks, on out of bounds plays where he threaded passes for direct layups and on penetrations where he was able to kick to an wide open teammate for a high percentage shot.

    Great teams who are unselfish will have a high percentage of assists.  Potsdam's 32-0 national championship teams had 59% of their baskets assisted and a 53% team FG%, while their opponents only had 46% assists.

    Last year's Potsdam team only had 46% of their baskets assisted, as they were 5-20 with a 46% FG%.

    Rebounds are different, every missed shot has to have a rebound credited either to an individual, a team, or as a dead ball rebound.  Tipping the ball to a teammate who eventually gains control, is a legitimate reason to credit a rebound according to the NCAA.  The tall players who get their hands on the ball will in fact earn their fair share of rebounds that way.  A ferocious shot blocker is actually entitled to a blocked shot and a rebound if his block is immediately controlled by a teammate, as his action, changed control of the ball.

    Hope this helps

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2010, 03:05:34 PM
    Quote from: thebear on November 30, 2010, 02:32:16 PM


    Rebounds are different, every missed shot has to have a rebound credited either to an individual, a team, or as a dead ball rebound.  Tipping the ball to a teammate who eventually gains control, is a legitimate reason to credit a rebound according to the NCAA.  The tall players who get their hands on the ball will in fact earn their fair share of rebounds that way.  A ferocious shot blocker is actually entitled to a blocked shot and a rebound if his block is immediately controlled by a teammate, as his action, changed control of the ball.

    Hope this helps



    That makes sense for 1 rebound.  What I was trying to say was that there were at least 2 rebounds given - the tip and the control - and in some cases multiple tips must have resulted in multiple rebounds.  Sort of the basketball equivalent of the hockey assist.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 30, 2010, 03:15:15 PM
    Wait...what's happening?  This isn't the E8PP.  Where am I?  What's going on?

    I'm looking to become a bandwagon fan this winter.  I read that Fisher is 1-2.  Do we think they will improve enough for me to start hoping on the bandwagon or do you think I will have to wait until next year?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 30, 2010, 03:30:44 PM
    cmon boob- hop on !
    should be fun
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 30, 2010, 03:42:23 PM
    Quote from: thebear on November 30, 2010, 02:32:16 PM
    Having been a stats man for the past 40 years, there is always some judgment in the stats, even the NCAA stats manual acknowledges this.

    Probably as many assists are not credited because, the spotter or the poor guy trying to watch the game and input to statcrew at the same time misses the pass. 

    As I understand it, an assist is a pass that contributes directly to helping the player making the basket.  There is no difference between a player penetrating and whipping a behind the back pass to a teammate for a dunk as there is to the same player penetrating and dishing to a wide open teammate for a sweet three from the perimeter, they are both assists. 

    I frown on assists where a player has to beat another defender before scoring, or the stat guy winks at an air ball in the paint and calls it a pass, instead of a missed shot and offensive rebound.

    I have kept stats for a 10 assist per game player (Mike Deane) and he had many of his assists on fast breaks, on out of bounds plays where he threaded passes for direct layups and on penetrations where he was able to kick to an wide open teammate for a high percentage shot.

    Great teams who are unselfish will have a high percentage of assists.  Potsdam's 32-0 national championship teams had 59% of their baskets assisted and a 53% team FG%, while their opponents only had 46% assists.

    Last year's Potsdam team only had 46% of their baskets assisted, as they were 5-20 with a 46% FG%.

    Rebounds are different, every missed shot has to have a rebound credited either to an individual, a team, or as a dead ball rebound.  Tipping the ball to a teammate who eventually gains control, is a legitimate reason to credit a rebound according to the NCAA.  The tall players who get their hands on the ball will in fact earn their fair share of rebounds that way.  A ferocious shot blocker is actually entitled to a blocked shot and a rebound if his block is immediately controlled by a teammate, as his action, changed control of the ball.

    Hope this helps



    When I did it for IC, a lot of it was "improving your position" once you got the ball.

    I guess for me, the thought process that appears to be going on with Rossi is just centered on the number itself being unusually high. Which seems like a highly cynical position to take considering his number isn't unusually high.

    Rossi's averaging 8.01 assists per game in his career. E8 Demigod Corey McAdam averaged 7.33. When you factor is that McAdam took 20 shots per game (FGs and FT'S) and Rossi takes 15, what's the difference? The additional assist can probably be found somewhere in the extra shots McAdam took that Rossi doesn't. And I don't remember McAdam's assist totals being called into question.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on November 30, 2010, 03:43:22 PM

    That makes sense for 1 rebound.  What I was trying to say was that there were at least 2 rebounds given - the tip and the control - and in some cases multiple tips must have resulted in multiple rebounds.  Sort of the basketball equivalent of the hockey assist.
    [/quote]

    Can't happen unless they are also charging a shot for each tip.  Every shot has to result in either a rebound or a made shot, even misses at the end of a period become team rebounds or dead ball rebounds.

    Statcrew forces you to score a rebound for every miss.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2010, 04:39:20 PM
    Quote from: thebear on November 30, 2010, 03:43:22 PM

    That makes sense for 1 rebound.  What I was trying to say was that there were at least 2 rebounds given - the tip and the control - and in some cases multiple tips must have resulted in multiple rebounds.  Sort of the basketball equivalent of the hockey assist.

    Can't happen unless they are also charging a shot for each tip.  Every shot has to result in either a rebound or a made shot, even misses at the end of a period become team rebounds or dead ball rebounds.

    Statcrew forces you to score a rebound for every miss.
    [/quote]

    Well in this case Statcrew was, I believe, the coach's wife.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 30, 2010, 07:16:50 PM
    Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 30, 2010, 03:15:15 PM
    Wait...what's happening?  This isn't the E8PP.  Where am I?  What's going on?

    I'm looking to become a bandwagon fan this winter.  I read that Fisher is 1-2.  Do we think they will improve enough for me to start hoping on the bandwagon or do you think I will have to wait until next year?

    Booby, nice to have you and FA91 on the basketball board. I think you can jump on. Fisher is 1-2, but the big man, Jason Norsen, has yet to play. Kramer (yest that Kramer) has not had any time either. Kornaker will get them going. The trip down to Virginia to start the season was a bit of a black box, since no one really knows what those teams had to offer, but I think Fisher will be fine. I am a little worried about their start, but it is to early to panic. They have a real tough game against U of R next, but we should know a lot more about Fisher after this weekend.

    Hopefully they win enough games for you and 91 to stick around. I love having some Fisher posters that people will not hate. It has been tough at times.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 30, 2010, 10:15:05 PM
    Ithaca defeats host Cortland 84-75 behind huge effort of Phil Barera who scored 33 pts on 16x18 from the field and grabbed 12 rebounds as well. Jordan Marcus with 12, Andrei Oztemel with 10 pts and 10 rebounds and to keep the Sean Rossi assist controversy alive Sean had 14 more of them tonight along with 10 points.

    Red Dragons were led by Dustin Marshall with 23 and Jesse Winter with 21.

    Bombers reverse a Cortland lead of 27-26 with 4 minutes left in the 1st half with a 10-2 run to go up at the break 36-29. Bombers open up a double digit lead out of the break and stretch it to 18 before Cortland rallies to cut it to 7 with 2:37 left to play75-68. Red Dragons with too little too late.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 30, 2010, 10:33:28 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 30, 2010, 10:15:05 PM
    Ithaca defeats host Cortland 84-75 behind huge effort of Phil Barera who scored 33 pts on 16x18 from the field and grabbed 12 rebounds as well. Jordan Marcus with 12, Andrei Oztemel with 10 pts and 10 rebounds and to keep the Sean Rossi assist controversy alive Sean had 14 more of them tonight along with 10 points.


    The best part...it was a road game, so all of Rossi's assists count

    I do not understand the Bombers' offense at all...in the first half:

    From 3: 1-for-18
    From 2: 14-for 16

    For the game, Ithaca was 6-of-30 from 3 and 27-of-33 from two. I understand you are the team you are, but it's astounding that they can shoot 20% from three, 81% from two and half nearly the same amount of shots from both. I mean, look, the jacking up 30 threes a game is fun and all, but it's amazing the Bombers don't adjust their style when something is so blatantly staring them in the face.

    Good to see Miles Gries making some shots. I'd like to see Oztemel do more than just shoot threes though. Yes, he was primarily a three-point shooter last year, but this season he's been almost exclusively one.

    Nonetheless, good to see the Bombers get a win
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FranElia on November 30, 2010, 11:56:18 PM
    I will attest to Rossi's assist count tonight. It helps when a lot of your passes go to a guy who shoots 16-of-18 from the field!!

    Fran Elia
    Cortland SID
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 01, 2010, 01:04:43 AM
    Quote from: franelia on November 30, 2010, 11:56:18 PM
    I will attest to Rossi's assist count tonight. It helps when a lot of your passes go to a guy who shoots 16-of-18 from the field!!

    Fran Elia
    Cortland SID

    Fran,
    I was following the game on your live stats feed and when I saw that Rossi had 13 assists with over 8 minutes to play I thought there was a chance he could hit 20. Then you would have had to swear on a bible. ;D :D If the Bombers hadn't missed so many of those 3's he probably would have gotten to 20.


    And Bombers 798891,
    As usual, you are correct in your Ithaca analysis. I also don't understand how nearly half your shots can come from beyond the arc. Another telling stat is that better than 80% of the 3's in Tuesday night's game came with less than half of the shot clock used up. The guys were hoisting up those 3's with 5 to 15 seconds gone in the possession. Maybe it's the Grinnell offense they choose to imitate. :(  Looking at the Bombers schedule I would have bet that they would be 5-0 at this point instead of 3-2. They travel to St. Lawrence this Friday and it's another game they should win. The Saints who returned a lot of veterans have struggled this year, opening up 1-3. They have played some quality teams (U of R, Plattsburgh St., and Bates but the loss of their All Region point guard Josh Sharlow (who is playing professionally on 1 of the upper division English teams) seems to have hurt the flow of their offense as everything pretty much ran through him for the past 3 years. But if Ithaca chooses to fire up the 3 balls with the success rate they had tonight I don't think they walk out of Burkman Gymnasium with a W.      

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 01, 2010, 07:38:21 AM
    Bear... thanks for your input, it explains a few things. Bomber 798xxxx nice win for the Bombers. Looks like Rossi assists were pretty much that of a point guard. The Bombers did not hit many 3's so as long as all those assists on 2's were the direct result of a basket, and no extra moves required, like cross over dribbels etc. , good for him and the Bombers.  We need the E-8 to start and prove themselves out of Conference.  By the way I recall McAdams assist being questioned as well..
    But make no mistake when you have the number of assists he had and possibly Rossi will have ... (need more time played. like another year) I guess they can't all be questioned.   I BELIEVE... and I know someone will know the answer, McAdams had more assists when Canori and Ryan McAdams his brother were around... and they did take a lot of 3's and hit them.   I guess I just feel, the true worth of a point guards assists comes off the pass in the paint, or out of bounds to a cutting player resulting in a lay up.. also the long pass off a steal etc.....  BUT I started a stream of posts for better or worse.. and gave Rossi some air time, so it is what it is.......... Hey Bomber 3 don't stay away too much, you bring a lot to the table.. truly......... ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 01, 2010, 08:21:09 AM
    Cards,
    It will take a few wins and a lot of chatter- but Im sure that boob and I will stay on.
    Here is hoping that Fisher rebounds from an early season slump and takes the Wendys?
    God I cant get used to that --its the chase!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 01, 2010, 08:42:33 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 01, 2010, 08:21:09 AM
    Cards,
    It will take a few wins and a lot of chatter- but Im sure that boob and I will stay on.
    Here is hoping that Fisher rebounds from an early season slump and takes the Wendys?
    God I cant get used to that --its the chase!

    Agreed.  The "Chase" part.  Not so much the Fisher part.....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 01, 2010, 08:49:15 AM
    Im not a huge Fisher bball guy, but I know basics.
    Im def a Football guy just rooting for his alma mater.
    I do hope they have a great season- but right now it seems that they have to right the ship first.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 01, 2010, 09:29:07 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on December 01, 2010, 07:38:21 AM
    Bear... thanks for your input, it explains a few things. Bomber 798xxxx nice win for the Bombers. Looks like Rossi assists were pretty much that of a point guard. The Bombers did not hit many 3's so as long as all those assists on 2's were the direct result of a basket, and no extra moves required, like cross over dribbels etc. , good for him and the Bombers.  We need the E-8 to start and prove themselves out of Conference.  By the way I recall McAdams assist being questioned as well..
    But make no mistake when you have the number of assists he had and possibly Rossi will have ... (need more time played. like another year) I guess they can't all be questioned.   I BELIEVE... and I know someone will know the answer, McAdams had more assists when Canori and Ryan McAdams his brother were around... and they did take a lot of 3's and hit them.   I guess I just feel, the true worth of a point guards assists comes off the pass in the paint, or out of bounds to a cutting player resulting in a lay up.. also the long pass off a steal etc.....  BUT I started a stream of posts for better or worse.. and gave Rossi some air time, so it is what it is.......... Hey Bomber 3 don't stay away too much, you bring a lot to the table.. truly......... ;)   

    Hey, we can debate his talent level all we want...all assists are not created equal, and sure, degree of difficulty counts. As I said, my issue wasn't with the idea that Rossi wasn't as good as his assist numbers indicated, but the idea that there was something going on in the sports info department at IC

    The system we have is the system we have. We can either take everything at face value or none of it. Barring some sort of direct evidence to the contrary, I don't know why we'd chose to believe that IC's (or Naz's apparently) sports info people weren't on the up and up about things.

    And bomber3, you should stick around. As an ex-player, your insight is helpful
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 01, 2010, 11:13:37 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 01, 2010, 08:49:15 AM
    Im not a huge Fisher bball guy, but I know basics.
    Im def a Football guy just rooting for his alma mater.
    I do hope they have a great season- but right now it seems that they have to right the ship first.

    I'm kind of in the same boat as 91.  Definitely a football guy, but I used to follow Fisher basketball closely when I was a student (this was during the Sean O'Brien era).  I'm not familiar with any of the current players outside of Kramer...for obvious reasons.  So can I get a quick breakdown?  Is Fisher a fast break team or do they always try and set up the half court offense?  Do they have more of an inside presence or are they perimeter oriented?  Is there a standout player or equal contributions all the way around?  That kind of thing.  Thanks in advance!  

    Also I was smited yesterday by some dastardly individual.  My problem is that I posted not only here but on the E8 and OAC conference boards in football.  However I have a feeling it came from here.  Be warned I now have my eye on all of you.  Once Booby's eye is on you...there is no going back.    
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 01, 2010, 11:37:42 AM
    +k for my homey booby
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 01, 2010, 12:02:56 PM
    Well put Bomber 798...xxx We have to deal with the system.. of course these stat people are on the up and up. as I stated never meant to question their integrity..and I guess the word "padded" was inappropriate in it's context. I just don't like such a subjective stat to mean that much.  I guess we are all aware of the subjectiveness now, so we keep it in perspective.   Come back bomber 3... never hear much from Naz on the site........Tigerfan where are you?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 01, 2010, 06:45:50 PM
    Great to see the Bombers continued their DOMINANCE of Cortland basketball.  They have won the past 2 and won all 3 when I was there so that brings the current win streak to at least 5 (can't look right now).  IC has had some good teams recently but right now we own Cortland.  Makes up a tiny bit of the sting from Cortaca. 
    Another ridiculous night from the floor from Barera.  He had a few games like this last year if I recall correctly.  Overall, solid road win they needed to have if they have at-large aspirations.  There hasn't been a cupcake on their schedule yet so although 3-2 isn't ideal, it could be worse.  If they put a few more together they'll be right when they want headed into conference play.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 01, 2010, 09:27:31 PM
    Hamilton scores the last 11 points of the game and defeats Utica College 71-60. Tied at 60 apiece with 2:54 left to play, Utica goes 0x6 from the field with 2 turnovers while Hamilton goes 9x10 from the line and 1x2 from the field. Hamilton's Ephraim McDowell leads all scorers with 22 pts (6x10 fg, 4x6 3's, 6x6 ft). Kevin Johnson is the Pioneers top performer with 15 pts (5x13 fg, 3x6 3's, 2x2 ft).

    Utica sees their undefeated streak end as they now stand at 3-1.     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 01, 2010, 09:40:31 PM
    Looks like Fisher will drop to 1-3 with U of R up double digits with under a minute left. Fisher is struggling to score and is not helping themselves at the free throw line. They cut the lead down to 8 late in the second half, but a couple bad fouls (1 tech on Kornaker down 8 with just over 2 to go) and some bad decisions cost them tonight.

    I knew U of R would be a tough draw for Fisher to start the tournament, but hopefully they can get back to 500 with a couple wins this weekend. I still think Fisher is going to be ok this year, but Fisher has to get it going NOW.

    Interesting fact. As good as U of R has been (and they have been great) this is there first win at Fisher in 20 years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 02, 2010, 08:20:00 AM
    Cards- you got some splainin for Booby and me....
    Im not buying this bandwagon....
    I feel myself reverting to the fooooooooooootba................
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 02, 2010, 09:15:06 AM
    Clearly the Tigers were over-rated in my mind this year. I should know better too.
    50 pts...  bad... My starting senior point guard plays 11 min...has 1 assist and 4 t/o.. and commits 3 fouls in 11 min. ......... team turns it over 19 times, has a TOTAL of 11 assists..we shoot 20-62 overall   4-21 from 3  Not sure what we need to do to turn it around... I really think we are not that good, and looking to finish higher than 6th in E-8 is stretching it. The only bright spot was Harder- had 13 rebounds... really reaching for a plus.  You all know I feel the point needs to be a leader, gutsy, and basically run the show ( just my opinion) We haven't had that for years now. Carson willed us success to a degree...... We are just not that talented...We have a few athletes, and will win our share in E-8 because of familiarity and it appears so far our big guns, IC and Fisher are not dominant SO FAR..   Naz is quietly taking care of business, so they certainly should be in the mix... I don't see the Tigers being a factor......Am I throwing in the towel too early, you tell me... Look at the Tigers two games... give me a positive  please. >:( 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 02, 2010, 01:53:00 PM
    Cheer up Fromafar....sunny days are ahead. 

    +k in lieu of a hug
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 02, 2010, 02:14:28 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on December 02, 2010, 09:15:06 AM
    Clearly the Tigers were over-rated in my mind this year. I should know better too.
    50 pts...  bad... My starting senior point guard plays 11 min...has 1 assist and 4 t/o.. and commits 3 fouls in 11 min. ......... team turns it over 19 times, has a TOTAL of 11 assists..we shoot 20-62 overall   4-21 from 3  Not sure what we need to do to turn it around... I really think we are not that good, and looking to finish higher than 6th in E-8 is stretching it. The only bright spot was Harder- had 13 rebounds... really reaching for a plus.  You all know I feel the point needs to be a leader, gutsy, and basically run the show ( just my opinion) We haven't had that for years now. Carson willed us success to a degree...... We are just not that talented...We have a few athletes, and will win our share in E-8 because of familiarity and it appears so far our big guns, IC and Fisher are not dominant SO FAR..   Naz is quietly taking care of business, so they certainly should be in the mix... I don't see the Tigers being a factor......Am I throwing in the towel too early, you tell me... Look at the Tigers two games... give me a positive  please. >:( 

    Maybe give them more than 2 games 8 days apart.  I don't offhand know how many newbies they are trying to work into te rotation but that takes time.  Continuity and team work take a little time.  Not that I'm a big RIT fan, mind you......
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 02, 2010, 02:15:00 PM
    Thanks Bobby yo... I need all the K's I can get.... I hope your right.. looks kind of dismal right now.  The good news is the league looks pretty wide open right now... I think some unexpected results during the year......... Right now I know what to expect from the Tigers. BUT WHAT DO I KNOW  ;)  Look how many times I used "right now"   I am losing it..........
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 02, 2010, 02:18:50 PM
    Ethelred, thanks for the shoulder, but believe me I know this team... yes two games eight days isn't a good baraometer, butI would have preferred winning those two and defending thoughts of grandeur........ Believe me CSI is not a power house... We are weak at some positions... thanks again for the hope ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 02, 2010, 04:30:14 PM
    I don't know if I am buying the fisher bandwagon anymore either 91. It is clear they miss Connor Henderson and his ability to hit the three. Not sure what happened to him or what is going on with Norsen. I like this harder kid, but I don't know who else is going to score for them.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 03, 2010, 07:25:18 AM
    Cards- you assured me that this was going to be a good season.
    Lots of preseason chest thumping etal.
    Im fading........................ :P
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2010, 09:11:32 PM
    Bombers up 39-26 on St. Lawrence with 17:00 to go. Jordan Marcus leads all scorers with 14. Rossi with a mere five assists so far
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2010, 09:51:11 PM
    Bombers pull away in the second half to beat St. Lawrence 79-60. Jordan Marcus scores 29, nearly tying the school record for threes in a game with nine. Sean Rossi only has 7 assists (12 if we're using IC's scoring methods). Ithaca goes 16 of 35 from three. 35 of their 52 shots were from beyond the arc

    I know it sounds like an oversimplication to say the "Live by the three, die by the three" when it comes to Ithaca's offense, but honestly after a game like this, what else is there to say?

    It is what it is I guess. Watching this Bombers' team is strange though. You just kind of sit back and if the shots fall, good, and if not, you just shrug.

    Over the years, here's the percentage of shots the Bombers have taken that are 3-pointers.

    2011: 49%
    2010: 44%
    2009: 41%
    2008: 37%
    2007: 29%

    Live by the three, die by the three...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2010, 09:57:10 PM
    Added note...Miles Grier is starting to get more comfortable...after seven points against Cortland on 3-for-3 shooting, he goes 3-for-3 tonight and finishes with 8 points, 5 rebounds and 3 assists.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 03, 2010, 10:56:07 PM
    Scores from the Wendy's Classic tonight:

    Geneseo 64   St. John Fisher 61

    Roberts Wesleyan 82   R.I.T. 72

    Nazareth 57 Brockport St  47

    Rochester 80  Hobart 77


    Rochester will play Nazareth tomorrow for the Wendy's Championship

    Brockport will play Hobart tomorrow for 3rd place

    Geneseo will play Roberts Wesleyan tomorrow for 5th place

    St. John Fisher will play R.I.T.  tomorrow for 7th place
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 04, 2010, 08:02:54 AM
    cards im going to take a back seat on the bandwagon.
    this season looks to be tanked before it really began
    7th place at the chase?
    really?
    oops sorry the wendys
    sheesh
    not good
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 05, 2010, 02:46:41 AM
    Nazareth wins the Wendy's classic defeating Rochester 62-60.

    Hobart takes the 3rd place game beating Brockport 69-54.

    Geneseo comes in 5th by beating Roberts Wesleyan 89-60.

    RIT salvages 7th place as they drop St. John Fisher 70-56.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 05, 2010, 07:44:38 AM
    um
    Cards?
    last place?
    really?
    the band wagon just crashed.
    forget it.
    no coming back.
    maybe next season....
    see ya on the football boards.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 05, 2010, 06:31:38 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 05, 2010, 07:44:38 AM
    um
    Cards?
    last place?
    really?
    the band wagon just crashed.
    forget it.
    no coming back.
    maybe next season....
    see ya on the football boards.

    OK, OK, I officially apologize to any other Fisher fans for telling you to jump on the bandwagon. I don't know what is wrong with this team, but at this point they are just not very good. They are playing a lot more of the young talent than I thought they would, and without Norsen, and with Henderson off the team, I just don't see them turning this around. Just not very good.

    Hopefully they can put this tournament behind them, but finishing in last place for the first time in the history of the tournament really does not inspire a lot of confidence.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 05, 2010, 07:24:31 PM
    cards --- try to enjoy the rest of the season, ill read the box scores....see ya in lax season?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 06, 2010, 08:50:34 AM
    E-8    I don't know.......Other than NAZ who is proving there is life after McAdams, the rest seems week.... Utica playng better than expected, and Stevens being sort of "the jury is out" since we really don't know how tough their schedule has been....Easy Cyclone.. I know the competition may be tough and Stevens is better than at least I expected, OR competion a bunch of duds and they will be better evaluated once E-8 starts... As far as RIT, goes normally I would say beating Fisher puts us in the MIX... But I am not sure Fisher is in the MIX. Fisher goes 2-17 from 3 point land... Rossi would starve for assists if he were playing for Fisher....While Terry scored 17, two freshman rose to the occasion... Bobalis and Schuster.. Shuster 4 assists and 1 t/o... Bobalis 12 points... both with limited minutes....Korinchak 1 assist... he needs to play for IC  JUST KIDDING GUYS.... Team was 8-25 from 3... not good shooting either. I haven't followed them too closely, but last year I thought Gettings was over-rated.. any feedback on that... Didn't play well against us. This should be a very entertaining season.....E-8 wise.....  ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 06, 2010, 11:49:40 AM
    We will see ya 91, and I can't say I blame you. So far it has just been bad for Fisher. I don't know what I am going to do this winter, but at least the lax and baseball teams gave us something to be excited about last year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 06, 2010, 01:18:13 PM
    cards-gave it a try-who knows maybe ill be back- ill def watch some lax on the puter!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2010, 01:33:19 PM
    I feel like the "leaving" the bandwagon is lasting longer than being on the Bandwagon  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 06, 2010, 02:09:06 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2010, 01:33:19 PM
    I feel like the "leaving" the bandwagon is lasting longer than being on the Bandwagon  ;)

    I just have to plus k that!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 06, 2010, 03:04:16 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on December 06, 2010, 08:50:34 AM
    E-8    I don't know.......Other than NAZ who is proving there is life after McAdams, the rest seems week....This should be a very entertaining season.....E-8 wise.....  ;)     

    Just curious FROMAFAR. What do you think has set Nazareth apart from the rest of the E8? In your HUMBLE Opinion, what has been the key to their success so far this season??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 07, 2010, 08:41:04 AM
    B-rule....not sure what is harder, telling why Naz has had early success, OR being Humble.........  let me try........ I am not so sure they have set themselves apart from the rest of the E-8... It's early, but they have taken care of business, and Fisher, and RIT  :'( have not.... IC seems to be OK... they just need to be more consistent.. and not just in results but during games.   Naz has a freshman, Brad Ford who is very good...Rebounds well, can score inside and out.... could end up being premiere player in league before he graduates. Scaffidi and Corletta have experience and keep defenses honest as both can have good offensive nights. Stephens although still a little inconsistent, is dangerous.  Wallbillig, and Lothridge give good minutes as well.  I would say SO FAR their strength is defense..... The only loss was to Rochester who they came back and beat. A 5-0 Rochester team..  It just looks like they came into the season prepared, give that to the coach.... They may have to be careful at the # of minutes these guys are playing.. They could tire late in the season....  But maybe some rest in blow outs, and practice will remedy that, IF remedy is in fact needed. HUMBLY speaking what do I know....I will say this, I believe there will be a lot of unexpected results this year in Conference play... although that might be hard to predict since I don't know what to expect.... ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 07, 2010, 09:17:09 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on December 07, 2010, 08:41:04 AM
    B-rule....not sure what is harder, telling why Naz has had early success, OR being Humble.........  let me try........ I am not so sure they have set themselves apart from the rest of the E-8... It's early, but they have taken care of business, and Fisher, and RIT  :'( have not.... IC seems to be OK... they just need to be more consistent.. and not just in results but during games.   Naz has a freshman, Brad Ford who is very good...Rebounds well, can score inside and out.... could end up being premiere player in league before he graduates. Scaffidi and Corletta have experience and keep defenses honest as both can have good offensive nights. Stephens although still a little inconsistent, is dangerous.  Wallbillig, and Lothridge give good minutes as well.  I would say SO FAR their strength is defense..... The only loss was to Rochester who they came back and beat. A 5-0 Rochester team..  It just looks like they came into the season prepared, give that to the coach.... They may have to be careful at the # of minutes these guys are playing.. They could tire late in the season....  But maybe some rest in blow outs, and practice will remedy that, IF remedy is in fact needed. HUMBLY speaking what do I know....I will say this, I believe there will be a lot of unexpected results this year in Conference play... although that might be hard to predict since I don't know what to expect.... ;)     

    Slight correction:  U of R was 6-1 when they lost to Naz.  They lost the second game of the year to Babson, by 10.  Both U of R losses have come in the second game of back to back nights.  While U of R's depth has improved with the return of last year's UAA ROY DiBartolemeo, they are still really a 7 deep rotation.  While they are generally excellent shooters when the legs go, so go the %'s.  At one point this year Novosel was 30-35 from the field.  He was 8-9 against Naz in their first meeting but followed up a 6-7 night against Hobart with a 2-10 the next night against Naz. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 07, 2010, 01:47:26 PM
    Ethelred, just to clarify, when speaking of the # of minutes these guys are playing, I was speaking about NAZ.....not UR.. which you may have understood.. just want to be clear.... Naz looks coached well, and they mix experience with talented youth... Sorry NAZ but I probably just jinx'd you guys.....  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 07, 2010, 06:30:41 PM
    So it looks like Naz is maybe the team to beat this year in the E8. Did anyone see that coming a few weeks ago? I sure didn't. I am hoping that Fisher will use this week of practice to regroup, and move forward with the conference season. Getting AU first should help (Sorry Pep), but if Fisher can get off to a good start in the conference, maybe they can salvage this season. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 07, 2010, 06:47:34 PM
    Fisher is still going to win at least 8 games in conference this year.  Naz and IC appear to be the two best as of now.  IC should probably be 6-1 right now but 5-2 is a respectable record with the schedule they've had. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 08, 2010, 12:29:41 AM
    Bombers only take 18 3-pointers, and a mere 6 in the 2nd half; nice change of pace.

    The Great Sean Rossi Conspiracy continues to pick up steam. We've now cajoled Elmira into giving him 11. To quote Montgomery Burns: "It's all falling into place."

    So both teams picked up technicals, and there were 40 personal fouls tonight. Anyone at the game want to comment on that? Was it chippy?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 08, 2010, 06:48:39 AM
    Bomber 798... let's not get gitty over assists against Elmira........ Rossi made a layup and the stat guy gave him a basket AND an assist on the play then asked for an eraser...He didn't know which to change................JUST KIDDING........I didn't see any stats or even results on any E-8 games last night.... Busy closing out Year End issues at work............I have no input today...I know how disappointed you guys are..........  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 08, 2010, 07:35:59 AM
    Stevens heads into E8 play with a 85-61 victory over Rutgers-Camden.  To put it in perspective, Camden is now 0-5 and easily could finish the season with only 2 or 3 wins all year, so not much to get excited about in the Ducks moving to 5-1, except that winning is always better than losing.

    The Smith-Cutri-Jones trio had their best performance of the year, putting up 18, 15, and 17 respectively.  Those three, if playing well, present an interesting variety on offense.  You have your natural post in Smith, who looked MUCH better in demanding the ball and being aggressive when he got it.  Cutri is your typical shooter (3-5 from "3").  Jones is the wild card, and has continued his impressive start to the season.  When he is getting to the basket and out in transition he gives them a much needed element of athleticism.

    9 points and 8 assists out of Thompson.  Other than that, just a lot of easy layups for everyone else.  Looked like the kid Max is injured, as he was in dress clothes.

    Next up for the Ducks is their E8 opener on the road at Utica on Friday.  Probably their first real "test" of the year, in conference, on the road, last game of the semester.  We'll see how they stack up.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 08, 2010, 10:06:40 AM
    Thanks Cyclone... If memory serves me they pretty much destroyed this team last year as well... However they took care of business. I hate when people say "well look who they played, they should win"  well if the team DOES win they did what they were supposed to... teams should never be downplayed when they win... NOW if they lose to someone they should beat, then we have an ax to grind. Your right about Franklin, I think... he's the wild card..... I think he is tough to prepare for. He has some very unorthodox moves to the hole, which are tough to defend, and he has ups, and can occasionally hit an outside shot... How is his defense? Is Stevens still playing primarily man-man.. or mixing in a zone...They really should play a little zone, in that it will keep Smith out of foul trouble, and help Thompson who IF I RECALL, is a little slow defending some of the quicker points in the league... you would know better. ;)...       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 08, 2010, 11:00:51 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on December 08, 2010, 06:48:39 AM
    Bomber 798... let's not get gitty over assists against Elmira........ Rossi made a layup and the stat guy gave him a basket AND an assist on the play then asked for an eraser...He didn't know which to change................JUST KIDDING........I didn't see any stats or even results on any E-8 games last night.... Busy closing out Year End issues at work............I have no input today...I know how disappointed you guys are..........  ;)

    I hear they give Rossi assists when guys make free throws off fouls set up by his passes...

    My excitement simply extends to any road game where Rossi gets a boat load of assists. Elmira's horrible, so I take very little else from that game

    Well, there is this: Given the frequency with which he shoots, is Phil Barera the closest thing to automatic we have in the E8? 70% from the floor on 11 shots per game? Yeah, I know he's probably been overinflated thanks to a couple big nights, and may see it go down in conference play, but man, to shoot that highly with that frequency.

    Barera really gets lost what with everyone else jacking up nothing but threes, but he's astounding. One thing I've noticed though is that he doesn't get to the line much. Now, unlike some big guys *cough* Carson *cough*  ;) Barera's actually a solid FT shooter, so maybe people don't want to foul him. Barera's also got a solid jumper, and gets a number of those per game, but it's still odd to me that he basically got three free throws a game last season, and two this season. You'd think he'd get more sort of by accident
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 08, 2010, 12:03:19 PM
    BOMBER 798XXX, that was the best line on this post in a long time, I broke out laughing so hard.... and engineers don't laugh often,   assist for foul shots... That's great... You are also correct about Carson and foul shots, BUT post players ( CARSON) should get to the line.  If they don't they are playing weak.  Barera is a bit of a freak though..... He has a great sense of when to shoot and he certainly isn't weak........my question is and I haven't seen him in awhile, so you tell me, does look for contact or try to avoid when going inside. I remember Stevens had a pretty good shooter Passalaqua... but as I recall never got to the line.... was it he didn't drive OR avoided contact when insde. Some players do that.   I coached kids from the 4th grade through 9th. When taking layups, some actaully try avoid a foul or BLOCKED shot, which is hard to correct in some kids.... The good ones learn how to get bumped and still get off a shot, and get to the line..... Some never learn. I agree the E-8 is getting underway, I look for some crazy things happening this year. Bomber keep up the quick wit, we all could use a laugh........ ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 08, 2010, 12:07:31 PM
    Hey Cyclone sorry I referenced Franklin as a wild card, when I meant Jones..... ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 08, 2010, 12:32:47 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on December 08, 2010, 12:03:19 PM
    BOMBER 798XXX, that was the best line on this post in a long time, I broke out laughing so hard.... and engineers don't laugh often,   assist for foul shots... That's great... You are also correct about Carson and foul shots, BUT post players ( CARSON) should get to the line.  If they don't they are playing weak.  Barera is a bit of a freak though..... He has a great sense of when to shoot and he certainly isn't weak........my question is and I haven't seen him in awhile, so you tell me, does look for contact or try to avoid when going inside. I remember Stevens had a pretty good shooter Passalaqua... but as I recall never got to the line.... was it he didn't drive OR avoided contact when insde. Some players do that.   I coached kids from the 4th grade through 9th. When taking layups, some actaully try avoid a foul or BLOCKED shot, which is hard to correct in some kids.... The good ones learn how to get bumped and still get off a shot, and get to the line..... Some never learn. I agree the E-8 is getting underway, I look for some crazy things happening this year. Bomber keep up the quick wit, we all could use a laugh........ ;) 

    I'm not totally sure Barera avoids contact. I would suspect he doesn't invite it though. But, if you're 65% from the floor and 75% from the line, you're more likely to hit the FG than both free throws, right? So is the "and one" frequency really worth it?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 08, 2010, 12:43:34 PM
    No it's not, but that's not my point... I am going under the assumption that 65% will continue, the 75% from the line will come with additional shots.   If that makes sense ???  Look, he is obviously doing the right thing.... I am just wondering if he has other opportunities to take shots. This player Passalaqua form Stevens, had a good shooting % from 3's, and I think he was a good foul shooter (CYCLONE ???) but rarely got to the line. If the 3 wasn't there he would just get rid of the ball.  Maybe Barera does something similar.... I am not talking about just being a stand around shooter like Passalaqua, I realize he works for open shots, but maybe he is just not selfish and forcing shots ( that could drawer a foul) as  well......   There are other offensive weapons on his team, so maybe I'm over analyzing............. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 08, 2010, 03:47:46 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on December 08, 2010, 12:43:34 PM
    No it's not, but that's not my point... I am going under the assumption that 65% will continue, the 75% from the line will come with additional shots.   If that makes sense ???  Look, he is obviously doing the right thing.... I am just wondering if he has other opportunities to take shots. This player Passalaqua form Stevens, had a good shooting % from 3's, and I think he was a good foul shooter (CYCLONE ???) but rarely got to the line. If the 3 wasn't there he would just get rid of the ball.  Maybe Barera does something similar.... I am not talking about just being a stand around shooter like Passalaqua, I realize he works for open shots, but maybe he is just not selfish and forcing shots ( that could drawer a foul) as  well......   There are other offensive weapons on his team, so maybe I'm over analyzing............. ;)

    No it does make sense. I think there are some big guys who do try to draw fouls and have no real intention of trying to make a shot. While I understand it's part of the game, it's not one I especially like. I'm sure Carson got hacked a lot because he was such an awful FT shooter (65% his senior hear, but under 50% the others) but sometimes you look at guys who take so many FT's and you just wonder. Barera's kind of at the other end right now
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: E8GUY on December 08, 2010, 06:10:22 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 08, 2010, 12:29:41 AM
    Bombers only take 18 3-pointers, and a mere 6 in the 2nd half; nice change of pace.

    The Great Sean Rossi Conspiracy continues to pick up steam. We've now cajoled Elmira into giving him 11. To quote Montgomery Burns: "It's all falling into place."

    So both teams picked up technicals, and there were 40 personal fouls tonight. Anyone at the game want to comment on that? Was it chippy?


    I didn't think so.   There was one slight pushing incident with about five minutes left that created one technical and one intentional foul call on Elmira that was executed so dumb as to be intentional but not dirty or dangerous.

    Elmira got down 20 early and pressed the rest of the game and then fouled a lot when beat.  They also fouled about five or six times in the last two minutes to stop the clock.

    But no real nonsense with the two teams.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 08, 2010, 06:20:10 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on December 08, 2010, 12:43:34 PM
    No it's not, but that's not my point... I am going under the assumption that 65% will continue, the 75% from the line will come with additional shots.   If that makes sense ???  Look, he is obviously doing the right thing.... I am just wondering if he has other opportunities to take shots. This player Passalaqua form Stevens, had a good shooting % from 3's, and I think he was a good foul shooter (CYCLONE ???) but rarely got to the line. If the 3 wasn't there he would just get rid of the ball.  Maybe Barera does something similar.... I am not talking about just being a stand around shooter like Passalaqua, I realize he works for open shots, but maybe he is just not selfish and forcing shots ( that could drawer a foul) as  well......   There are other offensive weapons on his team, so maybe I'm over analyzing............. ;)

    Passalacqua had the dribbling ability of a Eric Montross.  He didn't get to the line because if he didn't catch and shoot there was a 95% chance he was going to trip over his feet.  However, when it came to shooting, he was deadly off of the drive and kick game that stevens used with their 4 guard set under Loeffler.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 08, 2010, 08:45:02 PM
    Barera is a combination of both your arguments.  He definitely doesn't invite the contact but he definitely isn't soft either.  Teams aren't going to foul him on purpose because he is a quality FT shooter.  Carson was shaq-esque from the line and teams fouled him whenever he was near the basket.  If there was any potential for him to score underneath the game plan was to hack him.  Saying he had ugly form at the line would be a compliment. 

    A lot of Barera's points are quick put backs or shots going away from the defense, neither of which draw a lot of fouls. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on December 08, 2010, 08:57:00 PM
    My goodness, is it basketball season already?

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 09, 2010, 12:19:01 PM
    That's right, I used to call Passalaqua a horse player.. stand around and shoot. I think the Utica Stevens game will tell us something about both teams this week... At Utica, they seem to be improved and certainly the winner of this game gets a step up on the other for being in the mix.... Although Stevens winning would be more telling since it is at Utica home.... As I recall Stevens was pretty tough on the road last year.... probably the senior factor.... Higgans, Greco and Masone were certainly not easily intimidated.....Oh well we'll see.
    If RIT doesn't spank Elmira tomorrow.... It's official..........we're cooked.... and I want to see Korinchak step up..........Some home cooking assists, and play some defense without fouling out.......... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 09, 2010, 01:31:12 PM
    Guesses on the number of assists Rossi "earns" tonight? Remember, it's a home game. I'm thinking 27. At least.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 09, 2010, 02:16:03 PM
    Seriously, it all depends on the # of 3's they hit.....  This is going to be a very tell tale game. IC at home, should win..... NAZ is hot and playing good D.... If anyone seeing this game, give some good detail tomorrow....Please......... Rossi home, team hitting 3's........... 9 assists.............. Not hitting 3's......... 3 assists  that would be realsitic............. However we will probably see about 13 assists with the 3, 9 without.......... ::) ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 09, 2010, 06:33:31 PM
    Big early game tonight between Naz/IC.  The two best teams in the E8 so far this year.  Could confirm Naz is for real if they win tonight.  Hopefully IC can pull out a big conference win and prove they're a top team in the East.  5-3 is not ideal...6-2 with wins over Hobart and (potentially) Naz would be a solid first semester resume.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 09, 2010, 09:06:43 PM
    Ithaca wins tonight's matchup against visiting Nazareth 94-84.

    Both teams place 5 players in double figures in this shootout. Bombers were led by Jordan Marcus with 22 points, Phil Barera with 18 pts and 9 boards, Andrei Oztemal with 16 pts and 7 rebounds, Chris Cruz-Rivas with 12 pts and 8 rebounds and Sean Rossi with 10 pts and 12 assists.

    Nazareth's Tyshun Stephens tied Marcus for scoring honors with 22 pts of his own while grabbing 8 rebounds. Dan Waldbillig had 15 pts and 9 rebounds, Jason Corletta had 13 pts, Brad Ford added 12 pts and Phil Scaffidi chipped in with 11.

    Both teams took 24 3 point shots with Nazareth canning 11 to the Bombers 8.
    Ithaca was 24x30 from the free throw line and the Bombers were huge down the stretch hitting 15x16 in the last 1:47. The Golden Flyers hit 17x19 attempts. Ithaca won the turnover battle, only giving up the ball 6 times while Naz had an even dozen.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 10, 2010, 07:52:02 AM
    Sounds like a good game to watch.....  IC should win when it's a shoot out... I am also impressed at the number of points scored by IC against what I thought was a solid defensive team... although IC hit 24 free throws,   15 in the last couple of minutes.......... looks like both teams can shoot and have a lot of battle in them... So 7 teams vying for the other two spots............Tonights Utica stevens game should be telling.. IF either wants to be in the MIX they have to show something here.....Cyclone.... give me the details PLEASE ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 10, 2010, 09:23:03 AM
    I think this year more than the past few years it is important for teams to get off to a good start in the conference. It seems like there are a ton of teams that have a chance at the top 4, and playing from behind Makes it tough Dow. The stretch. I see a conference where no game is an easy win, and teams that struggle early may run out of time to catch up.
    I don't know if Fisher can turn on the switch and do well in the conference, but I an hoping. Some crazy weeks are ahead for sure.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on December 10, 2010, 10:59:56 AM
    As I stated in previous posts, Elmira is an easy out.  They lost by 17, 46, 39, 19, 11, 3, 21, and 11.  They still aren't good.

    Also, this team doesn't look very good either:

    Lost by 21
    Lost by 4
    Won by 5 over a 2-5 team
    Lost by 14
    Lost by 4
    Lost by 14

    Any guesses who that team is?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 10, 2010, 11:14:15 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on December 10, 2010, 10:59:56 AM
    As I stated in previous posts, Elmira is an easy out.  They lost by 17, 46, 39, 19, 11, 3, 21, and 11.  They still aren't good.

    Also, this team doesn't look very good either:

    Lost by 21
    Lost by 4
    Won by 5 over a 2-5 team
    Lost by 14
    Lost by 4
    Lost by 14

    Any guesses who that team is?

    Just a hunch but I think you're referring to the Cards of St. John Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 10, 2010, 11:59:27 AM
    Is it Fisher?    I haven't looked too close at the records and point differentials.. I would have guessed Alfred, but they are doing pretty well I THINK..... also what happened to Blazek..... is he hurt?  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 10, 2010, 12:49:33 PM
    Elmira looks terrible as they are want to do, and at least for the elite teams, won't be a challenge.

    What will be interesting is Fisher and RIT. Are these just early season struggles, or are there larger issues at play here? From the looks of things, I'm worry about the Cardinals. It's not just the record. Fisher is atrocious shooting the ball, (36% from the floor and 23% from three point range,) and have a bad TO margin (-3.3). That can't be a good sign.

    Big win for the Bombers last night

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 10, 2010, 01:06:25 PM
    RIT does not have an identity........the same complaint I had about a supposedly good Stevens team two years ago..... They need a point guard who will run the show will some wins, like the Ducks did last year. I'm telling you without a gutsy point your going to struggle........it's like an ochestra without the guy waiving his baton up front.....I believe that is Fisher's problem too. I am not saying that is the only problem but the strong point helps a lot.
    Hey we RIT --shoot  38% form the field and 30% from the 3..... we are out rebounded and have 14 more T/O than assists.......... those 3rd and 4th spots are wide open..... RIT does not look like it will make.... I won't speak for Fisher... yet...... ;)       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 10, 2010, 10:02:12 PM
    Stevens reverses a 65-62 Utica lead at the 5:36 mark with 7 straight pts and is never caught as they down the host Pioneers 73-69. Big road win for the Ducks and should place them into the conversation as a possible playoff team. Stevens has 4 players in double figures led by Mike Cutri with 18 pts, 6 rebounds and 5 assists. Simon Smith had a double-double with 17 pts and 11 boards, while Sheldon Jones also added 17 pts. Bryan Franklin was 6 for 7 from the field to total 12 pts.

    James Patterson of Utica was the game's high scorer with 22 pts and Kevin Johnson chipped in with 20.

    Stevens had the better night shooting as the Ducks went 30x56 from the field and 10x14 from the line. Utica was 30x74 from the field and only 3x9 from the foul line. Neither team shot well from behind the arc as Stevens was only 3x14 and Utica was 6x25. When you subtract the 3 pt. attempts from Stevens field goal shooting the Ducks were 27x42 (64.2%) inside the arc. Turnovers and rebounds were just about even.

    Utica's next game is Dec. 14th when they travel to Union for an 8 PM start.
    Stevens is off until Jan. 3rd when they travel to RPI for a 7 PM game against the Red Hawks.
       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 11, 2010, 05:10:42 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 10, 2010, 12:49:33 PM
    Elmira looks terrible as they are want to do, and at least for the elite teams, won't be a challenge.

    What will be interesting is Fisher and RIT. Are these just early season struggles, or are there larger issues at play here? From the looks of things, I'm worry about the Cardinals. It's not just the record. Fisher is atrocious shooting the ball, (36% from the floor and 23% from three point range,) and have a bad TO margin (-3.3). That can't be a good sign.

    Big win for the Bombers last night



    There is no doubt that Fisher has been awful so far. They are really missing a big man, and have gotten nothing out of Koch. They play a younger lineup, and really have not had any flow to their games. No one can make the argument that Fisher belongs in the conversation for the conference tourny with what they have done so far, I am just hoping that eventually talent will step up. Say what you want about Fisher, they are always a team that is in the top part of the conference talent wise.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 12, 2010, 05:00:36 PM
    Bombers win a shootout with Oneonta, 94-86 to close out the year.

    Miles Grier scores 21 to lead five Bombers in double-figures. IC only takes 14 three pointers, as Grier's recent spurt of inspired play gives them another inside, and makes them less reliant on the outside shot.

    Eight assists for Rossi.

    Ithaca enters the break 7-2, with four players in double figures, and two more at 8 points or more. The offense is humming again, with at least 94 points in three straight games...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 12, 2010, 05:50:52 PM
    St. John Fisher opens league play with a 59-53 win over visiting Alfred. Brent Harder led the Cardinals in scoring with 15 pts.

    Cardinals move to 2-5 on the year and will next play host to Carnegie Mellon on Sat. December 18th at 2 PM.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on December 12, 2010, 06:45:48 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 12, 2010, 05:00:36 PM
    Eight assists for Rossi.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 12, 2010, 07:41:06 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 12, 2010, 05:50:52 PM
    St. John Fisher opens league play with a 59-53 win over visiting Alfred. Brent Harder led the Cardinals in scoring with 15 pts.

    Cardinals move to 2-5 on the year and will next play host to Carnegie Mellon on Sat. December 18th at 2 PM.

    Not a real great performance for Fisher, but at this point, a win is a win. Fisher has to just forget the start to this season and focus on the most important record they havce going, 1-0 in conference. They need to start scoring to have any shot at the top 4 in conference. It was nice to see Jason Norsen in the game today. Hopefully he can help. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 13, 2010, 11:47:45 AM
    Tigers 68-63 over 1-9 Elmira at home :-[  We shoot 52% for the game, Elmira shoots 40%. We shoot 3-17  Elmira 6-20....from 3.. Foul shots even.
    Rebounds and fouls about even... We get off 5 more shots and hit 4 more than Eagles... That's the differenc between us and a 1-9 team on the road ::) Who's our go to guy, Heisig, Harder, Terry........We needa n ochestra leader JUST TO START..We have absolutely no identity    BUT ;)..   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 13, 2010, 12:33:05 PM
    So regarding the whole RIT-Fisher thing, where do you guys stand? A win is a win, but these performances cannot be inspirational.

    Trailing Elmira in the second half at home? Ugh.

    Fisher looks like they lead solidly--if perhaps not comfortably--the whole way, but Alfred has been very bad in conference play for awhile now.

    Those two teams really need to play better if they want to stay in this thing
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 13, 2010, 12:56:16 PM
    Bomber 798xxx your right.. Basically RIT's only shot at the E-8 tourney is 3rd or 4th place.... for that to happen.......everyone other than IC and Nazareth have to be as bad... Which they could be..... won't know how good the others are until they start playing each other. I know Cyclone-- Stevens won on the road at a SEEMINGLY improved UC team...But they both have to be able to beat Fisher and RIT......which IF THEY ARE GOOD they should and will.. If they don't then 5 are fighting for 2 positions..... Sorry Elmira and Alfred not yet......  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 13, 2010, 01:25:03 PM
    Cards- I noticed that Ryan Kramer wasnt in the box score from the AU game.
    Is he still on the team?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 13, 2010, 03:01:57 PM
    As far as I know Kramer is still on the team, but he has not seen much time. That has been Fisher's M.O. In the past for football players that also play basketball (Tim Vink, Fwhernebach, etc.) Not sure if it is the grind of the football season or what but players that also play other sports (B. Beigle, Henderson) have seen significant time.

    I am a little surprised that Kramer has not seen more time with Fisher's rotation of young players, but I am sure he is in the mix. He's just to good not to be.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 14, 2010, 09:46:36 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on December 13, 2010, 12:56:16 PM
    Bomber 798xxx your right.. Basically RIT's only shot at the E-8 tourney is 3rd or 4th place.... for that to happen.......everyone other than IC and Nazareth have to be as bad... Which they could be..... won't know how good the others are until they start playing each other. I know Cyclone-- Stevens won on the road at a SEEMINGLY improved UC team...But they both have to be able to beat Fisher and RIT......which IF THEY ARE GOOD they should and will.. If they don't then 5 are fighting for 2 positions..... Sorry Elmira and Alfred not yet......  ;)

    Didn't talk about it much, had to head down to North Carolina for a couple days, but I really wasn't impressed with the Stevens win over Utica.  Maybe I'm just a very harsh critic, but I don't think Utica is a very good team.  I think there is some talent but overall I didn't come away thinking "oh Stevens beat them, they have to be good."  

    To be fair though, I've seen 6 Top 25 teams (Amherst, Ramapo, MIT, Franklin & Marshall, Williams, Brandeis) and I would say Williams is the only "good" team I've seen.  I know the others teams are probably good teams relative to how early it is in the year. It's just that early in the season I see too many early season mistakes (coaching errors, team chemistry errors, etc) in a lot of teams to consider them good just yet.  They'll all be there by the end of the year though I'd imagine.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 14, 2010, 09:45:14 PM
    Utica travels to Union and comes up short as the Dutchmen win 89-80. The Pioneers fall to 6-3 overall and are off until they host St. John Fisher on January 7th at 8 PM.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 15, 2010, 12:55:55 PM
    Thanks Cyclone, yea your right we don't know how good these teams really are and we not not know for awhile.   The way it's looking.... the only teams that look like they could dominate THIS LEAGUE, are IC and NAZ.... although they played one another and who knows what the results of playing the rest could be. Awhile ago I mentioned it's all about match-ups.... Stevens has had UC's number since being in this league. I think they have only lost once. They also have played NAZ and Fisher pretty tough...IC has had Stevens number and so on...hey maybe IC goes something like 13-3, Naz 12-4 or 11-5..... the rest is a crap shoot...... I can actually see RIT going 9-7 or 7-9....... Hartwick is a strange team.... they could go 10-6 OR 5-11... I really don't know.......... but then again waht do I know ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 18, 2010, 04:02:07 PM
    Fisher was able to come back from down 2 at halftime today and win going away to win 67-54. I didn't see the game or follow it online so I don't know much more than the score, but the win is another step in the right direction at least. Since Norsen has come back they are 2-0, and they can be back to 500 before their next conference game. Good win against a UAA school ( I know Carnegie Mellon is not a power, but any win against the UAA is a good in IMHO).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 21, 2010, 10:41:54 PM
    On December 14th Ithaca's Phil Barera was named as the center on the D3hoops Team of the Week. Barera was honored for his 51 points scored and 14 rebounds in helping the Bombers go 3-0 for the week.

    Matt Pebole of Hobart was chosen as a forward on the D3hoops Team of the Week for the same time period.

    A well deserved and early Christmas present for both of these fine players. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 22, 2010, 01:31:34 PM
    So does anyone know anything about Farmingdale State? I have never heard much about their basketball program, and I am looking for a scouting report of what to expect when Fisher takes them on.

    I think this holiday tournament is huge for Fisher. There is no way around it, they had an awful start to the season. But, if they can get to 5 and 5 before really jumping into their conference schedule maybe they can start fresh in the second half of the season.

    I still think this Fisher team has a lot of talent, and if the young guys can step up I think they can get into the top 4 of the league. Maybe I am just pulling for that, but Fisher usually plays well in conference.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 22, 2010, 03:24:23 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 22, 2010, 01:31:34 PM
    So does anyone know anything about Farmingdale State? I have never heard much about their basketball program, and I am looking for a scouting report of what to expect when Fisher takes them on.

    I think this holiday tournament is huge for Fisher. There is no way around it, they had an awful start to the season. But, if they can get to 5 and 5 before really jumping into their conference schedule maybe they can start fresh in the second half of the season.

    I still think this Fisher team has a lot of talent, and if the young guys can step up I think they can get into the top 4 of the league. Maybe I am just pulling for that, but Fisher usually plays well in conference.

    I remember their team a few years ago, in the NCAA's at UofR, was athletic and wasnt afraind to shoot the 3.  They were a tournament team for a couple years straight if I remember.  That being said, this team bears little resemblance.  They score in the upper 70's and give up almost as much.  They have 4 guys in double figures and have 30+ more turnovers than assists so I would guess they are somewhat young and undisiplined at this stage.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on December 22, 2010, 05:31:07 PM
    My recollection of Farmingdale state, is they are made up of street ballers, usually from their local area ( Long Island, Queens, Brooklyn) that have athleticism, but not enough basketball skills or court IQ to play at the next level.....however in the Skyline they compete and usually are in the conference tourney......They may be more athletic than Fisher... not sure, but should lose to the CARDS.

    Just want to wish all the guys on the boards a MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR.......   enjoy your family and friends, stay healthy and have fun. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 23, 2010, 10:03:40 AM
    Not to be too crude, but this game the Fisher/Farmingdale game will come to what type of kids Fisher has.  If they are the type of kids who are afraid to walk through Brooklyn by themselves at midnight, they'll lose the game by 10.  Farmingdale is going to be significantly more athletic than Fisher, and a lot more willing to throw an elbow or talk trash.  I know two ex-Farmingdale players very well and their motto for playing non-city, non-NJAC teams was simple:  We are going pull your punk card from the time we hit the gym.  If you back down and start complaining to the refs about being fouled or held, you won't survive a game with them.


    That being said, this Farmingdale team tries to play that style, but doesn't have the kids to do it.  I would be surprised if they beat Fisher to be honest. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 24, 2010, 05:14:59 PM
    Thanks for all of the info boys.

    Here is hoping that everyone on the Imper 8 boards has a great holidays. Enjoy the time with family and friends.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 28, 2010, 09:55:38 PM
    PC, I saw on the front page that the D3Hoops classic is in Vegas. Any reason for the choice of location? Don't get me wrong, I would take the chance to go to Vegas as well, but I am wondering if there is a more logical reason.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 29, 2010, 09:03:08 PM
    St John Fisher shoots 57% from the field in the 1st half (17x30, 3x4 3's) and is a perfect 12x12 from the foul line as they open up a huge 49-26 lead over Farmingdale State at the break. The Rams are held to 23% from the field (7x31) and are getting beat in every phase of the game. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 29, 2010, 09:43:04 PM
    Fisher finally looked like the team I expected them to be this year, as they pounded a decent Farmingdale team 90-51. Fisher looked great tonight, and finally got some production out of Koch and some others off the bench. If Koch can start to pick it up, and they can get enough out of Norsen inside, they may have something to say about the E8 tournament yet. I don't want to get ahead of myself after just one game, but that was a good looking performance out of the gate to start the second half of the season.

    Another note, Fisher is now 4-5, but since Norsen came back they are 3-0. He seems to be the guy that makes them tick.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUKaz00 on December 30, 2010, 09:33:30 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 29, 2010, 09:43:04 PM
    Fisher finally looked like the team I expected them to be this year, as they pounded a decent Farmingdale team 90-51. Fisher looked great tonight, and finally got some production out of Koch and some others off the bench. If Koch can start to pick it up, and they can get enough out of Norsen inside, they may have something to say about the E8 tournament yet. I don't want to get ahead of myself after just one game, but that was a good looking performance out of the gate to start the second half of the season.

    Another note, Fisher is now 4-5, but since Norsen came back they are 3-0. He seems to be the guy that makes them tick.

    How long until FA91 gets roped back in only to be disappointed again?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 30, 2010, 04:35:29 PM
    Hopefully not long, and hopefully not too much disappointment.  Fisher looks to be on their way to another big win today. Up 27 with a few minutes left to go. All of a sudden I am excited about getting into the depths of the conference schedule.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 31, 2010, 08:19:26 AM
    hey boys,
    been lurking.
    not sold.
    sorry.
    i wish em well- but Lax season comes up pretty quick :o
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on January 02, 2011, 04:43:57 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 28, 2010, 09:55:38 PM
    PC, I saw on the front page that the D3Hoops classic is in Vegas. Any reason for the choice of location? Don't get me wrong, I would take the chance to go to Vegas as well, but I am wondering if there is a more logical reason.

    Well, a couple reasons. Weather is usually pretty decent (I mean, it's not Florida, but most D-III locales will take a high in the upper 50s in late December), there are plenty of direct flights from all over the place, hotel rates are usually reasonable and in our case, there's a basketball arena right in the hotel, so teams don't have to worry about getting on a bus to go to games or practice.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 02, 2011, 08:01:37 PM
    Ithaca defeats Wesley College 96-92 at the Franklin & Marshall Sponaugle New Years Tournament on Sunday afternoon. Bombers place 4 players in double figures led by Marcus Jordan with 24 points (7x14 fg, 6x12 3's, 4x7 ft). Andrei Oztemel had 21 pts with all his points coming on trifectas (7x11 fg, 7x10 3's). Chris Cruz-Rivas had 19 pts (7x14 fg, 3x6 3's, 2x4 ft) and 8 rebounds. Phil Barera added 18 points (6x10 fg, 6x6 ft) and just missed another double-double as he grabbed 9 boards.
    The Bombers shot a little better than 50% from both the field, (32x62) and from 3 point land (16x30).

    Ithaca will play in the championship game on Monday evening at 8 PM against the winner of D3hoops #14 Franklin & Marshall vs Old Westbury. Pretty sure that will be F&M. Hopefully Ithaca can give the Diplomats a good game. Go Bombers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2011, 09:52:34 AM
    Quote from: magicman on January 02, 2011, 08:01:37 PM
    Ithaca defeats Wesley College 96-92 at the Franklin & Marshall Sponaugle New Years Tournament on Sunday afternoon. Bombers place 4 players in double figures led by Marcus Jordan with 24 points (7x14 fg, 6x12 3's, 4x7 ft). Andrei Oztemel had 21 pts with all his points coming on trifectas (7x11 fg, 7x10 3's). Chris Cruz-Rivas had 19 pts (7x14 fg, 3x6 3's, 2x4 ft) and 8 rebounds. Phil Barera added 18 points (6x10 fg, 6x6 ft) and just missed another double-double as he grabbed 9 boards.
    The Bombers shot a little better than 50% from both the field, (32x62) and from 3 point land (16x30).

    Ithaca will play in the championship game on Monday evening at 8 PM against the winner of D3hoops #14 Franklin & Marshall vs Old Westbury. Pretty sure that will be F&M. Hopefully Ithaca can give the Diplomats a good game. Go Bombers.

    Come on, we can't forget the obligatory Rossi assist update. We're trying to unearth a conspiracy here, and the nine assists he had should not go unmentioned...it's all worthwhile data people.  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 03, 2011, 11:59:21 AM
    Bomber 798 etc.   What I am actually tracking is the number of 3's IC makes.... That reflects the point ( no pun intended) ... I just can't get excited unless the assists are needle threaders or no look passes. Granted, he does make that first pass and they hit the 3........but look at the e-8 stats..... he leads the conf. with 10 + assists. Second point guard has 5 +      Is he really that much better than everyone in the conference?   I can't buy that.  How many T/overs does he avg.?   I really don't know.... I don't care about the ratio since I undevalue his assists. I don't want waste time on this issue however as we have gone thriough in detail to even getting input from a soccer player on assists. We did agree there was a bit of subjectiveness involved.......   Ok lets get started now...... within the next two weeks the conference will start to take some shape....... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2011, 02:06:39 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 03, 2011, 11:59:21 AM
    Bomber 798 etc.   What I am actually tracking is the number of 3's IC makes.... That reflects the point ( no pun intended) ... I just can't get excited unless the assists are needle threaders or no look passes. Granted, he does make that first pass and they hit the 3........but look at the e-8 stats..... he leads the conf. with 10 + assists. Second point guard has 5 +      Is he really that much better than everyone in the conference?   I can't buy that.  How many T/overs does he avg.?   I really don't know.... I don't care about the ratio since I undevalue his assists. I don't want waste time on this issue however as we have gone thriough in detail to even getting input from a soccer player on assists. We did agree there was a bit of subjectiveness involved.......   Ok lets get started now...... within the next two weeks the conference will start to take some shape....... ;)

    Yeah, I know, I forgot, this is swimming and there's degrees of difficulty.

    If a running back takes a handoff and runs straight ahead through a giant hole untouched to the end zone do you say, "Yeah but he didn't have to make a move or break a tackle, so those yards don't mean anything?" Should a breakaway layup count as much as an off-balance 19-footer with a defender draped on you? Does a rebound count the same if you don't have to fight someone for it and it comes right to you? Is it still a stolen base if the catcher makes a crappy throw but a good throw might have had the runner or the pitch is in the dirt?

    You should publish your "Rules on when statistics actually count" so we know what we're allowed to be excited about.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 03, 2011, 02:28:30 PM
    Bomber 789, you are 100% correct,  my point is it is subjective and some places give the easy pass, sometimes behind you, for a 3, an assist. I have absolutely no problem with that, what I do have a problem with is it is not so everywhere. Probably only because those keeping the stats don't know the definition, hey neither of us knew it when we started this conversation. However I knew it was not consistent... Like running for 30 yards regardless how easy it is, etc. etc. The rule is the rule, so you make my point...Don't take his assists away, just give everyone the same benefit............. look it is what it is and I have always considered stats a crutch anyway........I have seen 60 % shooters shoot 20% in big games and vice a versa.   I am dropping the sword, because it is probably becoming boring or already has. I really have nothing against Rossi, he is probably a nice kid, and shouldn't be subject to this, so I will move on. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 03, 2011, 02:30:15 PM
    Oh yea by the way, swimming deosn't have a degree of difficulty, just like basketball...... you win or lose...... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2011, 03:40:04 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 03, 2011, 02:30:15 PM
    Oh yea by the way, swimming deosn't have a degree of difficulty, just like basketball...... you win or lose...... ;)

    Ahhh, true, it's diving that does...good call
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2011, 04:27:51 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 03, 2011, 02:28:30 PM
    Bomber 789, you are 100% correct,  my point is it is subjective and some places give the easy pass, sometimes behind you, for a 3, an assist. I have absolutely no problem with that, what I do have a problem with is it is not so everywhere. Probably only because those keeping the stats don't know the definition, hey neither of us knew it when we started this conversation. However I knew it was not consistent... Don't take his assists away, just give everyone the same benefit.

    I'm curious to what you "know" about Rossi's assist totals that make you think it's not applied equally. I've found this idea to be kind of fascinating because I'm not sure how many of Rossi's games you've seen over the years. And even if you watched the games, wouldn't you need to know the shots where he was awarded an assist to know if they were "easy" or not? You spend a lot of time at the Sports Info tables during games?

    And further, since I've proven with a little thing called "statistics" (Otherwise known as "facts") that Rossi's assist numbers are virtually the same on the road and in neutral site games when you account for team FG differences, I'm curious as to what these "places" are that award him easy assists. Right now, Rossi is averaging 8.4 assists per game. Let's take a look at the "places" where he's recorded 8 or more assists in a game:

    Hobart
    Amherst
    Case Western
    Elmira
    RIT
    Nazareth
    Hartwick
    Stevens
    St. John Fisher (E8 Tourney, so I'm not sure who scored it)
    Brockport (ECAC Champ. so see above)
    Penn State Behrend
    Cortland
    Franklin and Marshall

    Man, that's a lot of places that give out easy assists. By my count he's picked up 8 or more assists (roughly his career average) in 13 non-Ithaca places. For his career, he's played in 18 non-ithaca places.

    So if 13 of the 18 non-Ithaca places he's played in are giving him his career average number of assists, it seems like he's been the receiving pretty standard treatment whatever gym he goes in to. Do these all count as "easy" places? 72% of the gyms he's played in for the course of his career?

    Clearly, this goes above and beyond Ithaca sports information. This has got to be an administrative level conspiracy. Ithaca's AD has clearly compiled a list of gyms that give out "easy" assists and scheduled road games only in those gyms for the sole purpose of creating a high assist total for Rossi. This plot gets better every week. I am going to look for this list the next time I am on IC's campus.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2011, 08:12:41 PM
    First play of the game, Rossi drives and when the defender commits to him, passes it around him inside for a layup. Does this count as a real assist? Can we get a ruling?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2011, 08:24:23 PM
    Bombers hitting their shots, up 21-11 with 13:49 left in the first. A very surprising start indeed
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2011, 08:26:16 PM
    30-22 Bombers 9:47 to go in first half. Cruz with 10 pts already, but I like that Barera also has 10...he's less likely to go cold in the 2nd half, although the Bombers may go away from him...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 03, 2011, 08:48:11 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2011, 08:12:41 PM
    First play of the game, Rossi drives and when the defender commits to him, passes it around him inside for a layup. Does this count as a real assist? Can we get a ruling?

    It might  count after we get a ruling on the exact distance of the pass. ;D

    Bombers up by 5 at the half 51-46.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2011, 08:49:21 PM
    End of the first half sees the Bombers up, 51-46.

    IC leaders:

    Cruz-Rivas 10 pts 8 rebs
    Barera: 10 pts
    Otztemel: 17 pts
    Rossi: 5 Asst.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 03, 2011, 09:24:27 PM
    bomber798... Bomber your right and I'm wrong.....but what do I know ;)

    By the way I see very few games and obviously I am not an expert.... I'll reach out to you in the future since you obviously are more passionate and knowledgeable than I am about the game..............
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 03, 2011, 09:45:38 PM
    Boom baby, Bombers win on the road against a very good F&M team.  Not sure the last time they beat a top 15 team on the road (if ever) but this is a very good win that should bring some national recognition to the program.  Hopefully IC starts getting some top 25 votes because I think they are deserving.  9--2 with wins against Nazareth (Wendy's Classic winner), F&M (14th ranked) on the road, and Hobart.  They seem to be rolling now with point totals of 105, 96, 94, 94, and 97 their past 5 games.  E8 watch out.  Hopefully they can shore up the defense a little bit and really get some wins going..

    Go Bombers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 03, 2011, 10:18:42 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 03, 2011, 09:24:27 PM
    bomber798... Bomber your right and I'm wrong.....but what do I know ;)

    By the way I see very few games and obviously I am not an expert.... I'll reach out to you in the future since you obviously are more passionate and knowledgeable than I am about the game..............

    Nah, it's all in good fun. When I get bored I tend to go into massively in depth statistical analysis. I tend to be very numbers-driven, so I look for things you can argue with stats one way or the other. Truth be told, I understand where you're coming from; it is odd that one player has double the assist totals of everyone else in the league.

    But I don't think even Bomber fans are saying that that makes Rossi twice as good as anyone else in the league. Obviously, the Bombers scoring 88 points a game give him more chances than the average point guard. Obviously, the Bombers offense is conducive to a point guard getting a ton of assists.

    I think his talent level is open to debate. Obviously, talent isn't 100% reflected in raw numbers. Some guys are better than their numbers. Others are worse.

    But his assist numbers are what they are. They exist, and they all count the same.

    Bombers upset #14 Franklin and Marshall 107-94. Cruz-Rivas with 27 and 12. Oztemel with 25 and 8. Rossi with 15 and 9. Ithaca puts five in double-figures.

    Ithaca is really clicking on offense now. Five straight games with at least 94 points. (Fun fact: The Bombers have allowed an increasing number of points in five straight games)

    Bombers now have four guys averaging 14 points a game, and Rossi and Grier are over 8 a game. The depth is what separates Ithaca offensively. But the defense concerns me to the point where it's hard to envision a deep run. Allowing 82 points a game and 46% shooting is not the stuff Final Four teams are made of.

    For the record, the Bombers offense is essentially even with the great 2008-2009 team. They shoot much better from the floor, but less well from the line. I would suspect they operate at a slightly slower pace
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 03, 2011, 10:29:59 PM
    Not only do the unranked Bombers beat #14 Franklin and Marshall 107-94, but the unranked Union Dutchmen defeat #20 Ramapo College 97-88 just minutes ago.
    Tomorrow night #21 Plattsburgh State takes on undefeated #5 Middlebury in another tough matchup as the Panthers travel to Plattsburgh to renew their rivalry with the Cardinals. Three great games between these 2 teams in the past 3 years. Panthers hold a 2-1 edge. Hopefully tomorrow night it's the Cardinals turn.

    Great win tonight for Ithaca, defeating the Diplomats on their home court. It's been almost a year since they lost a game at home.

    Union moves to 8-1 with their only loss coming at the hands of the above mentioned #5 Middlebury team. With tonight's win the Dutchmen have certainly let the Liberty League favorites know that they are a serious contender to be reckoned with. Justin Gallo for Union had another huge night scoring 34 points. Looks like this guy can play basketball as well or better than he played football.        
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 04, 2011, 09:33:36 PM
    Fisher won their 5th straight tonight beating Elmira by 19. Not the most inspired performance by Fisher but a win is a win. Elmira is not very good, but 3-0 in the conference is 3-0 in the conference. Fisher is also above 500 for the first time this year at 6-5. Since Norsen has come back they are 5-0.

    Fisher has a huge weekend ahead going to Utica and Ithaca. Utica is likely to battle with Fisher for one of the E8 playoff spots, and IC looks to be the class of the league this year (that tasted bad as I said it). If Fisher can play well and win 2 this weekend, that could be a huge turning point for their season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 04, 2011, 09:45:35 PM
    Sorry I got ahead of myself. Fisher is 2-0 in the league.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 05, 2011, 09:56:19 AM
    So how good is Utica and/or Ithaca? I have not seen much about UC but IC looks legit. Any chance Fisher wins both this weekend? Is that the toughest two game trip for teams in the E8?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 05, 2011, 11:19:31 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 05, 2011, 09:56:19 AM
    So how good is Utica and/or Ithaca? I have not seen much about UC but IC looks legit. Any chance Fisher wins both this weekend? Is that the toughest two game trip for teams in the E8?

    I hate to be overly-simplistic or glib regarding IC, but it's really just a matter of the shots falling. Right now, the three main outside shooters from IC (Cruz-Rivas, Oztemel and Marcus) are shooting a combined 43.4% from three point range. When those guys are on, how do you stop IC? Barera's shooting 65% from inside, so you just can't defend that kind of shot-making ability. But there will come a time when they go cold. Always is.

    But you're going to score on them. A lot. 82 PPG is astoundingly bad. What's funny is that their FG defense (46%) isn't that much worse than the 2009 team's (45.3%) and is much better from three. But they're giving up about 8 points more a game then that team. But opponents are shooting three free throws per game more, two shots per game more, and four three pointers per game more.

    I would suspect this is sort of the hidden part of their defensive issues. It doesn't manifest itself in percentages, but teams are getting to the line more, getting a couple more shots off, and apparently, getting more good looks from three-point range then they used to.

    The thing that will determine an IC Fisher matchup is who dictates the pace. Ithaca averages 64 FG attempts per game, Fisher 53. The thing I like about Fisher is their rebounding and depth. If they can control the boards to limit IC's chances, they should be able to stay fresh.

    There are two red flags with Fisher when it come to playing IC. One is their offense. They play better D than a lot of teams, but they seem mostly like a team set to try and score 65. I'm kind of stunned to see that Fisher has only broken 70 twice this season. The Bombers lowest total is 71, and that was on a night where they couldn't dictate pace (56 shots) and never got to the line (5 FT attempts). Even if Ithaca's D helps out Fisher's O, hoping to keep the Bombers under 75 or so is going to be rough.

    The second is turnovers. Fisher's averaging close to 17 a game. Way too many extra possesions to give up, especially to a team like IC.

    Right now, I think the Bombers take it, 83-72
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 06, 2011, 11:48:43 AM
    Naz loses at home to Cortland. Really now? And only scores 50 points in the process? Ye Gods
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 06, 2011, 03:48:15 PM
    Thanks bombers. I am excited to see the Fisher/IC game. Especially if Fisher can get a win at Utica on Friday. It is obvious IC likes to run and they score a lot of points but Fisher has faired well in the bulb in the past. I am really interested to see how fisher slows down (or tries to) ICs offense. Should be a good game. It would be a huge win for Fisher if they can get it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 07, 2011, 09:45:24 PM
    The Bombers are simply unstoppable on offense right now. They put together one of the most dominant games of the season and destroy Alfred 104-51.

    IC shoots 62% from the floor, 59% from three, and is +20 on the glass.

    Rivas with 18 points and 10 rebounds...Barera with 18 and 8 on 9-of-10 shooting...Oztemel with 15 on 5-of-8 from three point range. Rossi with 11 points and 12 assists, at least one of which was behind the back. As a team, Ithaca had 26 assists on 40 made shots.

    What can you say when the Bombers are shooting like this? How can you stop them with so many guys capable of going off on any given night?

    I will say, I was disappointed by Alfred. There was simply no effort given tonight. Bombers scored the first nine points and had a 22-1 run later in the first half.They closed the game on an 18-0 run and held Alfred scoreless for the last 8:42. Even though the Bombers can score in bunches, that's really a letdown.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 08, 2011, 07:37:39 AM
    Wow.  53 point victory?  That is unreal.  Hopefully the margin of victory is even bigger today!  Good luck Bombers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 08, 2011, 10:06:00 AM
    I watched some of the Fisher/UC game last night and I think todays game should be a good one. Fisher has looked much better recently, and they have picked up there scoring some. IC scores on everybody so I don't think Fisher can play the game in the 60's like they want to, but they should be able to frustrate IC some. I think it will be a tight game. Homer pick: Fisher by 5
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on January 08, 2011, 10:11:29 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 07, 2011, 09:45:24 PM

    I will say, I was disappointed by Alfred. There was simply no effort given tonight. Bombers scored the first nine points and had a 22-1 run later in the first half.They closed the game on an 18-0 run and held Alfred scoreless for the last 8:42. Even though the Bombers can score in bunches, that's really a letdown.


    Well, given the leadership, it's not all that surprising. Murphy was bad yet they kept him for many years, and even then they didn't get rid of him, just moved him to the women's team. Then they didn't make a great choice to succeed him, they just looked at the fact he had been at Williams and their eyes lit up. Never mind the fact that the coach who'd been at Williams, Paulsen, had just left for the Bucknell job and wasn't taking Wellman with him -- not even to be a video assistant or basketball operations. If he hadn't gotten the Alfred job, he was going to be out of coaching. Not exactly a choice that inspires a lot of confidence.

    I'm sure Pep will have a different take because I know he likes the guy. And he might be a great guy, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a great coach. Obviously the team has regressed, even though they currently stand at 5-5 on the season. 0-2 in the league, 0-3 on the road and the teams they have beaten aren't exactly world beaters.

    I think they will compete with Elmira, as always, for the bottom of the league.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on January 08, 2011, 12:16:10 PM
    Hartwick continues to improve...beat Naz on the road last night.   Blazak is back from his hamstring injury (missed the whole 1st semester) and freshman Jared Sudderly is a legit player.  I think they will make the E-8 Playoffs this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 08, 2011, 04:48:20 PM
    IC can really shoot. They are up 7 at the half against Fisher. The cards are trying to keep in it but IC just makes big shot after big shot all half. Tough to defend, and the pace of the game is definitely the type that IC wants to play.

    Funny side note. At one point Rossi threw a pass to the corner, and the guy in the corner threw a pass inside for a layup, and the announcer said whoever from Rossi. I am sure it was an honest mistake, but if he is getting double assists like in hockey, it is time someone stop this.  :)  just kidding. He has been great so far.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2011, 06:16:40 PM
    Bombers take it, 101-95.

    Unreal. This offense is obscene right now.

    Barera with 18 and 20. Rossi with 17 and 11. Oztemel with 21 and Marcus with 24.

    Gettings with 36 and 8 for Fisher.

    Ithaca is just not going down right now. Broke 100 points the third straight game, and over 90 for the seventh straight. Bombers are the team to beat right now, 11-2 and 4-0 in conference
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUSaxons33344 on January 08, 2011, 06:55:27 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on January 08, 2011, 10:11:29 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 07, 2011, 09:45:24 PM

    I will say, I was disappointed by Alfred. There was simply no effort given tonight. Bombers scored the first nine points and had a 22-1 run later in the first half.They closed the game on an 18-0 run and held Alfred scoreless for the last 8:42. Even though the Bombers can score in bunches, that's really a letdown.


    Well, given the leadership, it's not all that surprising. Murphy was bad yet they kept him for many years, and even then they didn't get rid of him, just moved him to the women's team. Then they didn't make a great choice to succeed him, they just looked at the fact he had been at Williams and their eyes lit up. Never mind the fact that the coach who'd been at Williams, Paulsen, had just left for the Bucknell job and wasn't taking Wellman with him -- not even to be a video assistant or basketball operations. If he hadn't gotten the Alfred job, he was going to be out of coaching. Not exactly a choice that inspires a lot of confidence.

    I'm sure Pep will have a different take because I know he likes the guy. And he might be a great guy, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a great coach. Obviously the team has regressed, even though they currently stand at 5-5 on the season. 0-2 in the league, 0-3 on the road and the teams they have beaten aren't exactly world beaters.

    I think they will compete with Elmira, as always, for the bottom of the league.


    I don't agree with your last line.  The program is turning around.  They've progressed the past 3 years --- everyone has off nights (like last night). 

    A couple years ago I remember the Saxons lost by 30 or so to Fisher at home then went in to Fisher's gym and won by 10.  The team only has 2 Seniors and is very young.  They came back from their terrible loss yesterday to beat Utica by 5 today and in their other game v Fisher a few weeks ago , they lost by 6.  I don't think they'll be a bottom feeder of the league this year and could surprise some teams at the top. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on January 08, 2011, 07:56:50 PM
    Quote from: AUSaxons33344 on January 08, 2011, 06:55:27 PM
    I don't agree with your last line.  The program is turning around.  They've progressed the past 3 years --- everyone has off nights (like last night). 

    A couple years ago I remember the Saxons lost by 30 or so to Fisher at home then went in to Fisher's gym and won by 10.  The team only has 2 Seniors and is very young.  They came back from their terrible loss yesterday to beat Utica by 5 today and in their other game v Fisher a few weeks ago , they lost by 6.  I don't think they'll be a bottom feeder of the league this year and could surprise some teams at the top. 

    While Alfred has progressed from 1-15 (2-23 overall) in the E8 (9th of 9 teams) in 2007-08, to 3-13 (8-17 overall) in the E8 (8th of 9 teams) in 2008-09 to 4-12 (11-14 overall) in the E8 (7th of 9 teams), I would expect them to be 8th (ahead of Elmira) again this season, certainly no higher than 7th (if Utica is able to be as bad as they were last year and with Connolly at the helm that's certainly a posibility. Naz is winless in the league, but just about all of their losses have been close, including a 10-point loss to the Bombers.

    Alfred is now 1-2 in the league and 6-5 overall. I think more than 5 wins in the league would be a miracle. Elmira twice, maybe Utica again, and then maybe a surprise. I guess, though, technically 5 wins would be an improvement.

    Let's look at who they've beaten this season: New Jersey City (5-6) by 4, Hilbert (4-8) by 2, SUNY Canton (1-6) by 24, Cazenovia (1-9) by 34, Paul Smith's (4-9) by 45 and Utica (6-5) by 5 today.
    So they blew out two teams with a combined record of 2-15 as well as a non-NCAA team in Paul Smith's, and had close victories over teams within spitting distance of .500, including the only team they've beaten with a winning record -- 6-5 Utica.

    Now their losses: Penn State Dubois (5-7) by 18, Eastern (8-3) by 8, Penn College (4-6) by 2, St. John Fisher (7-6) by 6, and Ithaca College (11-2) by 53. Ithaca is legit and that showed, Eastern has a nice record, and Fisher is typically tough. Penn State Dubois and Penn College (which got its first win of the season against Alfred) are not high quality teams.

    By the way, the most recent Massey ratings have Elmira last in the E8 (ranked 1713), and Alfred next to last (ranked 1647). Hartwick is third to last with a ranking of 1471. Those ratings aren't quite accurate though, as they did not include AU's split this weekend.

    I'm sorry but those details just do not add up to a program that is turning around. Going from hitting a plateau of 4-5 league wins is not a program in turnaround.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUSaxons33344 on January 09, 2011, 04:27:33 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on January 08, 2011, 07:56:50 PM
    Quote from: AUSaxons33344 on January 08, 2011, 06:55:27 PM
    I don't agree with your last line.  The program is turning around.  They've progressed the past 3 years --- everyone has off nights (like last night). 

    A couple years ago I remember the Saxons lost by 30 or so to Fisher at home then went in to Fisher's gym and won by 10.  The team only has 2 Seniors and is very young.  They came back from their terrible loss yesterday to beat Utica by 5 today and in their other game v Fisher a few weeks ago , they lost by 6.  I don't think they'll be a bottom feeder of the league this year and could surprise some teams at the top. 

    While Alfred has progressed from 1-15 (2-23 overall) in the E8 (9th of 9 teams) in 2007-08, to 3-13 (8-17 overall) in the E8 (8th of 9 teams) in 2008-09 to 4-12 (11-14 overall) in the E8 (7th of 9 teams), I would expect them to be 8th (ahead of Elmira) again this season, certainly no higher than 7th (if Utica is able to be as bad as they were last year and with Connolly at the helm that's certainly a posibility. Naz is winless in the league, but just about all of their losses have been close, including a 10-point loss to the Bombers.

    Alfred is now 1-2 in the league and 6-5 overall. I think more than 5 wins in the league would be a miracle. Elmira twice, maybe Utica again, and then maybe a surprise. I guess, though, technically 5 wins would be an improvement.

    Let's look at who they've beaten this season: New Jersey City (5-6) by 4, Hilbert (4-8) by 2, SUNY Canton (1-6) by 24, Cazenovia (1-9) by 34, Paul Smith's (4-9) by 45 and Utica (6-5) by 5 today.
    So they blew out two teams with a combined record of 2-15 as well as a non-NCAA team in Paul Smith's, and had close victories over teams within spitting distance of .500, including the only team they've beaten with a winning record -- 6-5 Utica.

    Now their losses: Penn State Dubois (5-7) by 18, Eastern (8-3) by 8, Penn College (4-6) by 2, St. John Fisher (7-6) by 6, and Ithaca College (11-2) by 53. Ithaca is legit and that showed, Eastern has a nice record, and Fisher is typically tough. Penn State Dubois and Penn College (which got its first win of the season against Alfred) are not high quality teams.

    By the way, the most recent Massey ratings have Elmira last in the E8 (ranked 1713), and Alfred next to last (ranked 1647). Hartwick is third to last with a ranking of 1471. Those ratings aren't quite accurate though, as they did not include AU's split this weekend.

    I'm sorry but those details just do not add up to a program that is turning around. Going from hitting a plateau of 4-5 league wins is not a program in turnaround.


    Impressive research.  What is a Massey Rating?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 09, 2011, 06:35:15 AM
    Quote from: AUSaxons33344 on January 09, 2011, 04:27:33 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on January 08, 2011, 07:56:50 PM
    Quote from: AUSaxons33344 on January 08, 2011, 06:55:27 PM
    I don't agree with your last line.  The program is turning around.  They've progressed the past 3 years --- everyone has off nights (like last night). 

    A couple years ago I remember the Saxons lost by 30 or so to Fisher at home then went in to Fisher's gym and won by 10.  The team only has 2 Seniors and is very young.  They came back from their terrible loss yesterday to beat Utica by 5 today and in their other game v Fisher a few weeks ago , they lost by 6.  I don't think they'll be a bottom feeder of the league this year and could surprise some teams at the top. 

    While Alfred has progressed from 1-15 (2-23 overall) in the E8 (9th of 9 teams) in 2007-08, to 3-13 (8-17 overall) in the E8 (8th of 9 teams) in 2008-09 to 4-12 (11-14 overall) in the E8 (7th of 9 teams), I would expect them to be 8th (ahead of Elmira) again this season, certainly no higher than 7th (if Utica is able to be as bad as they were last year and with Connolly at the helm that's certainly a posibility. Naz is winless in the league, but just about all of their losses have been close, including a 10-point loss to the Bombers.

    Alfred is now 1-2 in the league and 6-5 overall. I think more than 5 wins in the league would be a miracle. Elmira twice, maybe Utica again, and then maybe a surprise. I guess, though, technically 5 wins would be an improvement.

    Let's look at who they've beaten this season: New Jersey City (5-6) by 4, Hilbert (4-8) by 2, SUNY Canton (1-6) by 24, Cazenovia (1-9) by 34, Paul Smith's (4-9) by 45 and Utica (6-5) by 5 today.
    So they blew out two teams with a combined record of 2-15 as well as a non-NCAA team in Paul Smith's, and had close victories over teams within spitting distance of .500, including the only team they've beaten with a winning record -- 6-5 Utica.

    Now their losses: Penn State Dubois (5-7) by 18, Eastern (8-3) by 8, Penn College (4-6) by 2, St. John Fisher (7-6) by 6, and Ithaca College (11-2) by 53. Ithaca is legit and that showed, Eastern has a nice record, and Fisher is typically tough. Penn State Dubois and Penn College (which got its first win of the season against Alfred) are not high quality teams.

    By the way, the most recent Massey ratings have Elmira last in the E8 (ranked 1713), and Alfred next to last (ranked 1647). Hartwick is third to last with a ranking of 1471. Those ratings aren't quite accurate though, as they did not include AU's split this weekend.

    I'm sorry but those details just do not add up to a program that is turning around. Going from hitting a plateau of 4-5 league wins is not a program in turnaround.


    Impressive research.  What is a Massey Rating?

    If you have a couple of hours to kill......


    http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2011&sub=NCAA%20III&mid=1
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 09, 2011, 01:05:29 PM
    OK, so the Tigers are 3-0. I don't know how? I was at the two games this weekend.  RIT stopped playing afetr 37 minutes and it almost cost them. To the Ducks credit they never stopped playing and almost broke my heart. This was an enormous game for both teams as it may play into making the E-8 Tourney. I believe IC and Fischer will definitley be in... IC because they are good, Fisher because they play half there games at home, where th homecourt advantage probably got it's name.  The other two spots are wide open, between Hartwick, Steven, RIT AND MAYBE NAZ... but they look weak right now.   Tigers were lucky to win either game this weekend, BUT to their credit they did. Hartwick impressed me, but was very streaky... like Tigers they don't seem to have a flow to their rotation..........Stevens has a definite flow.... a guy Like Smith, who I believe is a monster down low.....24 and 16 against us, and 16 and 14 against NAZ..... THAT BEING SAID.... those home wins become a must.  Tigers have a bit of an advantage right now as we have held court against two teams I think we will dualing with...

    By the way SJFCARDS.... that PA Announcer at IC became the PC announcer by being promoted from stat man.    He was just reverting back to his old job when he gave Rossi the assist two passes later...
    JUST KIDDING BOMBERS 798............. don't get excited again.


    I also think Alfred will make a little noise before this is all over................could cost someone a Tourney spot. But  ;)
       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2011, 02:09:59 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 09, 2011, 01:05:29 PM
    OK, so the Tigers are 3-0. I don't know how? I was at the two games this weekend.  RIT stopped playing afetr 37 minutes and it almost cost them. To the Ducks credit they never stopped playing and almost broke my heart. This was an enormous game for both teams as it may play into making the E-8 Tourney. I believe IC and Fischer will definitley be in... IC because they are good, Fisher because they play half there games at home, where th homecourt advantage probably got it's name.  The other two spots are wide open, between Hartwick, Steven, RIT AND MAYBE NAZ... but they look weak right now.   Tigers were lucky to win either game this weekend, BUT to their credit they did. Hartwick impressed me, but was very streaky... like Tigers they don't seem to have a flow to their rotation..........Stevens has a definite flow.... a guy Like Smith, who I believe is a monster down low.....24 and 16 against us, and 16 and 14 against NAZ..... THAT BEING SAID.... those home wins become a must.  Tigers have a bit of an advantage right now as we have held court against two teams I think we will dualing with...

    By the way SJFCARDS.... that PA Announcer at IC became the PC announcer by being promoted from stat man.    He was just reverting back to his old job when he gave Rossi the assist two passes later...
    JUST KIDDING BOMBERS 798............. don't get excited again.


    I also think Alfred will make a little noise before this is all over................could cost someone a Tourney spot. But  ;)
       

    Eh, no worries...he'll just keep putting up the numbers, and people can doubt him and the worthiness of the stats all they want. Ithaca's just going to keep lighting up the scoreboard regardless of who gets the assists.

    Bombers and Fisher seem to be the obvious two at this point.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 09, 2011, 04:44:59 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2011, 02:09:59 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 09, 2011, 01:05:29 PM
    OK, so the Tigers are 3-0. I don't know how? I was at the two games this weekend.  RIT stopped playing afetr 37 minutes and it almost cost them. To the Ducks credit they never stopped playing and almost broke my heart. This was an enormous game for both teams as it may play into making the E-8 Tourney. I believe IC and Fischer will definitley be in... IC because they are good, Fisher because they play half there games at home, where th homecourt advantage probably got it's name.  The other two spots are wide open, between Hartwick, Steven, RIT AND MAYBE NAZ... but they look weak right now.   Tigers were lucky to win either game this weekend, BUT to their credit they did. Hartwick impressed me, but was very streaky... like Tigers they don't seem to have a flow to their rotation..........Stevens has a definite flow.... a guy Like Smith, who I believe is a monster down low.....24 and 16 against us, and 16 and 14 against NAZ..... THAT BEING SAID.... those home wins become a must.  Tigers have a bit of an advantage right now as we have held court against two teams I think we will dualing with...

    By the way SJFCARDS.... that PA Announcer at IC became the PC announcer by being promoted from stat man.    He was just reverting back to his old job when he gave Rossi the assist two passes later...
    JUST KIDDING BOMBERS 798............. don't get excited again.


    I also think Alfred will make a little noise before this is all over................could cost someone a Tourney spot. But  ;)
     

    Eh, no worries...he'll just keep putting up the numbers, and people can doubt him and the worthiness of the stats all they want. Ithaca's just going to keep lighting up the scoreboard regardless of who gets the assists.

    Bombers and Fisher seem to be the obvious two at this point.

    Well if it is down to Fisher and IC I think we can put IC into the NCAA's. I was impressed with them last night, and there was no question who the better team on the court was. Rossi was trouble for Fisher all night, and I don't think Fisher adjusted very well to what IC was doing. IC's offense was basically; Have Rossi drive and kick to someone for a 3 (IC does not miss many) or, Rossi drive and go for a layup. Fisher would basically give Rossi the lane to hold IC to two points on the trip. It was an effective strategy for IC. They are just really tough to defend, and Fisher did not have the shooters to keep up.

    On the Rossi issue he looked like the point guard we have heard he is. He does get a lot of assists just from playing in that system (A lot of hand offs and passes where someone chucks up a three and cashes it, but he is great at running that offense, and he gave Fisher real headaches all night.

    Fisher did look like a much improved team last night, and I think they will be in the E8 tourny (my guess is as a two seed). IC will lose some games in the league simply because they will have an off night shooting and teams can score on them. But over the course of a full conference season, they are the best team right now.

    I was at the game yesterday and I kept thinking that Fisher could really use Conner Henderson from last years team. Not sure if he quit to play lacrosse full time or what, but his outside shooting ability could really balance the offense and give Fisher a much tougher look.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2011, 06:26:37 PM
    I'm sure I'll sound like a broken record at this point, but I feel, as we're into Season 4 of the Bombers running this high octane offense, that, as much as I enjoy these 90+ point games in January, I'm just going to hold off getting too excited until it happens in March. Lighting up teams in the regular season is awesome, but until Ithaca can put it together in the conference tournament/NCAA's, I'm going to remain wary.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 09, 2011, 07:55:58 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2011, 06:26:37 PM
    I'm sure I'll sound like a broken record at this point, but I feel, as we're into Season 4 of the Bombers running this high octane offense, that, as much as I enjoy these 90+ point games in January, I'm just going to hold off getting too excited until it happens in March. Lighting up teams in the regular season is awesome, but until Ithaca can put it together in the conference tournament/NCAA's, I'm going to remain wary.



    I agree bombers. I think the problem with running ICs offense is that as tough as it is to defend other teams can and will score on you. If you have an off shooting night or if you play a team that can match your output it is really tough to beat them. As teams see it more and gameplan for it (the Me tourney) and when you play teams with better athletes (NCAA) it is tough to win running that offense.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 10, 2011, 11:25:00 AM
    IC reminds me of the San Diego Chargers under Don Coryell... The team was called "Air Coryell".... Becuse they passed almost every down and did not take much time going down the field...and throwing for the TD..... when they were on Defense it was like they almost wanted the other team to score quickly so their offense could get the ball back...........OF course that's not true but I have to explain that or I will be taken seriously..............Correct me however if I am wrong, don't they waste little time shooting hence more possessions, more possessions more points...... BUT I used to think if they were cold, you know, live by the 3 die by the 3. They have so many options of taking the 3, somone or two will have the stroke......  So IC should definitely get to the NCAA's, because I don't see anyone in E-8 beating them.... UGH :(   But I do agree some better teams outside the conference that can stiffle them. But hey this team is deep this may be a sweet 16 team........... BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 10, 2011, 12:21:08 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 10, 2011, 11:25:00 AM
    IC reminds me of the San Diego Chargers under Don Coryell... The team was called "Air Coryell".... Becuse they passed almost every down and did not take much time going down the field...and throwing for the TD..... when they were on Defense it was like they almost wanted the other team to score quickly so their offense could get the ball back...........OF course that's not true but I have to explain that or I will be taken seriously..............Correct me however if I am wrong, don't they waste little time shooting hence more possessions, more possessions more points...... BUT I used to think if they were cold, you know, live by the 3 die by the 3. They have so many options of taking the 3, somone or two will have the stroke......  So IC should definitely get to the NCAA's, because I don't see anyone in E-8 beating them.... UGH :(   But I do agree some better teams outside the conference that can stiffle them. But hey this team is deep this may be a sweet 16 team........... BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)

    I think you're right, but there are a couple of things that make this Bomber team different offensively. I think there's more of an inside threat. Not so much in the sense that they do go inside more, but they more players who can score inside

    Barera is obviously a major threat inside, but he's much better than Bostic at scoring inside (68% vs. 57%). Then you have Miles Grier, who is athletic enough to get to the hole on anyone, and is also shooting over 50%. If Rossi were so inclined, he could get inside and score.

    The Bombers are still going to rely heavily on the outside, but they can adapt. Against Oneonta. for example, Ithaca only took three threes in the second half. Against Franklin and Marshall and Nazareth, they only took 8 in the second half after 16 in the first. Sure, guys like Oztemel are strictly outside gunners, but I think this is a team that can go inside if they want to, whereas, I think the 2009 team was really limited in that sense.

    But there's no doubt guys have improved at their outside shooting. Rivas is at 43% this season, and his previous best was 36%. Marcus is at 48% (previous high: 38%) and Oztemel is at 45% (last season: 41%). I'm not 100% sure that's sustainable but there it is

    I wonder if having a pass-first point guard helps. Sometimes, Burton seemed like he wanted to take over games, and I wonder if it got people out of rythym. Burton took 16 FGA and 5 FTA's per game (yes, some of those were probably "icing" FT's. Rossi takes 8 and 3. Something interesting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 10, 2011, 02:42:13 PM
    That's exactly right, that's why I believe this team will not lose an e-8 game and I said they are deep. If all the shooters are off.... highly unlikely, then they have other options...... You have to know from my posts I prefer a pass first Point Guard.....opens everything up. Very difficuly for defense to double team.  While I have made it known the assist on a basic 3 is too subjective, for this team Rossi has so many options inside and out, how could he not have 10 assists per game. The only thing that could make this team better is touger Defense. Someone on Fisher , I think Gettings, had 30+ points. Who was guarding him..... If it was Rossi, I can understand in that he plays 40 minutes, so they will give up those points since they don't seem to have a back up, Burt how would I know since no one replaces him.....Gettings should never score 30 points.....Not a consistant shooter, and a little slow.... here's where the Fisher fans take offense.... Just my feelings. BUT ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 11, 2011, 04:09:49 AM
    Ithaca cracks the D3hoops Top 25 Poll as the Bombers, who haven't received a single point all year, get 76 points this week and are ranked #20. New York University also gets ranked as they check in at the #25 spot with 69 points. Only 7 points separate the bottom 6 places. Plattsburgh State, as expected, with 3 losses last week in 4 games, falls out  of the Top 25 and receives 16 points which would put them in 31st place. These are the only East region teams that are getting points.

    Here's the link to the complete poll:

    http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2010-11/week6
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 11, 2011, 03:56:40 PM
    Shades of Pistol Pete, check out this 12 year old kid from the state of Washington.

    http://www.komonews.com/sports/heroes/111892554.html
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 11, 2011, 04:57:22 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 11, 2011, 03:56:40 PM
    Shades of Pistol Pete, check out this 12 year old kid from the state of Washington.

    http://www.komonews.com/sports/heroes/111892554.html

    I must be way too cynical a person, because I'm not impressed. Well, I mean, the dribbling looks cool, and he can fire off some fancy passes, but meh. Can the kid play basketball? I mean, do his skills translate to the court and an actual game or is he just into the flash and sizzle? I mean, ok, those skills would be great for the Globetrotters or the And1 tours, but I'm more impressed with guys who can actually play on the college/pro level (Yes, I'm aware Maravich did)

    I'm sure FROMAFAR is salivating because these no-look, thread the needle passes count as "super awesome, doubly-special assists." I just wonder how many times he sent passes out of bounds or off unsuspecting players hands before they got the two/three they needed?  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 11, 2011, 09:38:00 PM
    Saxons roll to 44-25 halftime lead and hold on for an 81-72 win over Elmira at McLane Center to improve to 2-2 in the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 11, 2011, 09:45:04 PM
    Okay, is this for real?

    Ithaca 104, Alfred 51
    Alfred 65, Utica 60
    Utica 85, Ithaca 81

    What's wrong with this picture?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 11, 2011, 09:48:15 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 10, 2011, 02:42:13 PM
    That's exactly right, that's why I believe this team will not lose an e-8 game and I said they are deep. If all the shooters are off.... highly unlikely, then they have other options...... You have to know from my posts I prefer a pass first Point Guard.....opens everything up. Very difficuly for defense to double team.  While I have made it known the assist on a basic 3 is too subjective, for this team Rossi has so many options inside and out, how could he not have 10 assists per game. The only thing that could make this team better is touger Defense. Someone on Fisher , I think Gettings, had 30+ points. Who was guarding him..... If it was Rossi, I can understand in that he plays 40 minutes, so they will give up those points since they don't seem to have a back up, Burt how would I know since no one replaces him.....Gettings should never score 30 points.....Not a consistant shooter, and a little slow.... here's where the Fisher fans take offense.... Just my feelings. BUT ;)  

    Oops....Bombers' 9-game flight ends with a crash landing in an 85-81 loss to Utica at Clark Athletic Center.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 12, 2011, 05:58:19 AM
    First of all, yea you are too cynical Bomber #%*&..... This kid is 12....I coach kids at that age level, and I haven't seen too many with those skills at that age, although I have seen a few 12 year olds, who have a real grasp of the game, AND some great skills. This kid ( although I just saw the video which gives you an idea..) but I would say he is certainly on his was.  As a matter of fact I wouldn't mind him on RIT........Yes I love those passes, and while yes probably threw a few away... if he can do this at 12.........I want to remember his........

    Hey PEP.... Like I always say WHAT DO I KNOW..... I really put the kiss on IC... SO Bomber be careful, I just may continue to sing their praises.   MAYBE getting into top 25 hurt them, in a way....Too complacent.. I don't know... what happened, cold from 3 land, turnovers, sleep walking  someone give me an idea.

    CYCLONE what happened to the Ducks... 19 pts in the first half????  I understand, many turn overs...20  wow.......  They better hold home court this wekend.  PEP here's your boys chance to get into themix a bit...Fisher could establish themselves with a road win here.  BUT what do I know. ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 12, 2011, 10:07:55 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 12, 2011, 05:58:19 AM
    First of all, yea you are too cynical Bomber #%*&..... This kid is 12....I coach kids at that age level, and I haven't seen too many with those skills at that age, although I have seen a few 12 year olds, who have a real grasp of the game, AND some great skills. This kid ( although I just saw the video which gives you an idea..) but I would say he is certainly on his was.  As a matter of fact I wouldn't mind him on RIT........Yes I love those passes, and while yes probably threw a few away... if he can do this at 12.........I want to remember his........

    Hey PEP.... Like I always say WHAT DO I KNOW..... I really put the kiss on IC... SO Bomber be careful, I just may continue to sing their praises.   MAYBE getting into top 25 hurt them, in a way....Too complacent.. I don't know... what happened, cold from 3 land, turnovers, sleep walking  someone give me an idea.


    Shooting was fine, although they went 4-9 from the line. Oztemel, who is shooting about 90% from the stripe, missed one with the Bombers down 82-81. 15 turnovers were pretty bad as well. But Utica's not going to hit 7-10 from three every night.

    This is the kind of game however, that frustrates me to no end about this recent "era" of Bomber play. This is a Utica team that lost to Alfred, which couldn't even stay in the gym against Ithaca (granted, in that game, Utica shot 2-of-15 from three.)

    I know Bomber3 always hates it when I rip on the team, but this is the kind of loss that makes it incredibly frustrating to follow them. The Pioneers, for all intents and purposes, look slightly better than average, and if you're a Top 25 school, you shouldn't lose these games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 12, 2011, 11:58:38 AM
    I agree with you. Ithaca's style is all about flow. If they get teams to play there game they are really tough to beat. If not, teams like Utica can beat them. They will win the league this year but I think they will do it with a couple losses.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 12, 2011, 12:16:16 PM
    Interesting, Rossi had 13 assists in the Utica game. One was on a layup by Barera the other 12 were on 3 point baskets. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 12, 2011, 01:07:39 PM
    Magicman-- did you say interesting? How many 3's did IC take 30+... I really don't know? I think cyclone mentioned UC didn't look great against Stevens and either did Stevens... As a matter of fact who is looking good other than IC... except last night. Hey it may may work for IC   maybe a wake up....They have to play some D.... who was UC high scorer, again I don't know.... was it Patterson... not a tough guess... who was guarding him.  8-) ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 12, 2011, 01:41:49 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 12, 2011, 12:16:16 PM
    Interesting, Rossi had 13 assists in the Utica game. One was on a layup by Barera the other 12 were on 3 point baskets. 

    I'm curious, did anyone actually watch the game last night?

    For the record, why are assists on three pointers somehow lame? It's not like Rossi just stands beyond the arc and hands it off to a guy three feet from him. Although in fairness, his 13 tonight were nothing special, that's the exception.

    There is such a thing as driving and kicking, and in a lot of ways, that can be challenging. You've got to draw the defender in in a way to get your guy open, and know when to make the pass so that the guy isn't covered. You've got to put in in place where he can shoot quickly.

    FROMAFAR, no it wasn't Patterson. I'd say I'm surprised you got it wrong, but in truth, I'm not. Just another IC game you didn't actually watch. But in case you actually do make it to Ithaca for a game, be warned: Rossi doesn't tend to guard 6-5, 215-pound and 6-7 240-pound forwards.

    The Bombers actually fell to Utica on the road last season before obliterating them in Ithaca, so perhaps i am overreacting to the los
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 12, 2011, 02:00:21 PM
    Bomber@#$%  there you go again over-reacting, very defensive, maybe you should coach IC on defense your good at it....No I didn't see the game and knew nothing about it... that's why I asked for help....I mentioned Patterson only because lately he seems to be one of their high scorer's....As far as the assis on the 3 Pters, I didn't bring it up but you have to admit, Magic madea valid poit and that was the number of assists on 3's.....calm down...... Rossi is the man when it comes to assists, he doesn't need anyone to defend him, ( that's not an  a double meaning either)...... You really are a conspiracy theory guy.  I believe it was Abrams a  6"5 forward....but again I am not sure and someone who follows the league gave me that info a short while ago.  and maybe Rossi should guard 6'5 players... maybe they won't give up 80+ a game.....hey I didn't think anyone in the league would beat your boy's this year, I was wrong again, and I'll bet you before long I will be wrong more than once......Bomber remember we are just a bunch of guy's shooting our opinions out.... Of course mistakes will be made... even by you...but trust me I won't be the one to point it out............enjoy the season and the banter, don't get too "fired up"....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: reelentless on January 12, 2011, 02:52:55 PM
    Although the rebounds were fairly even, last night Utica was able to score in the paint against Ithaca, having a 28-12 advantage in that Stat.  Will Abrams was on fire, shooting 14 for 17 overall, 4 for 6 on 3s (31 pts) but a lot of Wills points were in the paint which clearly helped his shooting %.  Bobby Whyte had 18 down low off the bench.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on January 14, 2011, 07:34:32 AM
    In regard to the Bombers loss to Utica and the "incredibly frustrating" feelings of following the Bombers.  I've said this quote before and I've said it again - each team plays 5 good games, 5 bad games, and 15 average ones.  The F&M win was one of the 5 good ones and the Utica loss was one of the bad ones.  This is basketball, not football with 10 games.  99.9% of teams in the country have some type of bad loss every year, its inevitable and part of the game. The length of the season and number of games dictates this. I wouldn't even classify this as a horrible loss as UC is above .500 and the game was at their place.  I'd like you to name another program that hasn't had some type of bad loss.  Bottom line is they are still a top 3 team in the east and the class of the E8.  This loss doesn't change that.  Wanna trade your Bomber support for Fisher's season right now? Didn't think so, your expectations just need to be adjusted for reality.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 14, 2011, 02:03:17 PM
    IC is still the class of the league, and I have heard your 5-15-5 theory..... This would mean IC could play a poor game and still win and in one of there 5 good games they could still lose, depending on the caliber of the opponent  IE: hypothetically let's say they were playing Williams, and they played a very good game, they could still lose because Williams may be playing one of their 5 good games and is better than IC...and if Williams played poorly and still won then that would mean Williams is a lot better than IC. This could play throughout  each scenario in the 5-15-5 theory. Which I get and basically agree with...remembering playing good bad or mediocre it all depends on the opponent and how they play.   An ex. Emira's good may not be as good as IC's bad.    Thus a good game for Elmira is still a loss against a bad IC game.  Therefore it appears UC may not be that bad since there good game beat IC's bad game. So they can actually do well in the league if they continue to play well.  NOW I am not trying to be funny, but let's say UC continues to play the good game... then the bar gets raised and these games move into the 15 set of their season......Engineers love this kind of stuff.  Everything black and white.....  Bomber 3's point is well taken and I agree with him...  I hope your right because RIT certainly got rid of there 5 bad games, unless those games are now consdered part of the 15 ledger. BUT  ;)h     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 14, 2011, 03:01:17 PM
    I have always liked the 5 15 5 theory, but I would change it slightly to very team plays 5 good games, 5 bad games and what teams do with the other 15 makes good teams good and bad teams bad. The teams that can play at a high level for those middle 15 games are the teams that are there at the end of the year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 14, 2011, 05:22:52 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on January 14, 2011, 07:34:32 AM
    your expectations just need to be adjusted for reality.

    But here's my question: What was the reality heading into the IC-UC game?

    Utica had lost four in a row, the Bombers had won nine in a row. The Pioneers were 6-5, Ithaca was 11-2. The Bombers were ranked, Utica not so much.

    If I'm an Ithaca fan, and I know all that and just saw the Bombers walk all over Alfred, and then saw Alfred beat Utica the next night, why wouldn't my expectations be that the Bombers should win? And therefore, why wouldn't it be a disappointing loss?

    Because apparently, these things happen? Look, I understand the argument. I just think it's intellectually lazy. It basically absolves the team of criticism. It's also funny how it's almost always applied after losses. Fans always want credit for the wins because it shows the "true" talent of the team. But bad losses are often get excused as things that "just happen"

    And frankly, we're not talking about a 162-game schedule-- Yeah 25 games is a decent number, but not so many that you can't go through a regular season without losing to a middling team

    My expectations had been adjusted for reality. The reality is that the basketball team at Ithaca College is significantly better than the one at Utica College. Amazingly enough, that's a compliment. You think I'm frustrated because I don't think the Bombers are good. On the contrary, I'm frustrated because I know they are good. Very good. They proved it in beating a 9-3 Hobart, and a 10-4 F&M

    I'm also just tired of having to excuse every Ithaca loss to an inferior opponent as "These things happen," "It's hard to beat a team three times in one season" or whatever the excuse dejour happens to be when a very good Ithaca team loses a game they shouldn't. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 15, 2011, 04:07:50 AM
    Results of Friday night's games.

     Elmira   58   Nazareth   69    
     
     St. John Fisher   54   Stevens   58   Overtime 
     
      Alfred   60   Hartwick   76    
     
      Utica   66   Rochester Tech   53  
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 15, 2011, 09:30:58 AM
    All I can say is RIT lost to UC  I am upset BUT not surprised........Nice win for Ducks........although I thought they would hold home court against Cards..BUT it took O.T.   a win is a win...Hartwick is becoming consistant, doing what's expected, Naz wins one they should win.....Basically no surprises last night.....

    Bomber 798891... I actually saw an E-8 game last night... Fisher- Ducks...... entertaining game, for sure.... Stevens is tough on the boards...  did not shoot well from long range, although Cutri was in foul trouble limiting his time, and he is their shooter. Stevens plays good defense though, that's key come tourney time, IF they make it..... Fisher is very robotic, at least they were last night. Here I go, no creativity at the point......I'll stop there. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on January 15, 2011, 11:00:01 AM
    ----
    The 5-15-5 theory has some merit...but as others have said - it depends on who you are playing on the bad nights.  Strength of schedule can throw that theory out the window. 

    I feel it makes more sense to look at the teams actual schedule and break it down into 3 categories. 

    1) Games that should be wins
    2) Games that may be loses 
    3) Games that could go either way

    The #'s in each category will vary based on the strength of your team and the strength of your schedule.

    A good, well coached team should:
    -Lose no more than one game from column #1,
    -Win 50 % from column #2
    -Win 75% from column #3.
     
    If this happens you have had a successful season
    --------------------
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 15, 2011, 11:37:36 AM
    Quote from: magicman on January 15, 2011, 04:07:50 AM
    Results of Friday night's games.

     Elmira   58   Nazareth   69    
     
     St. John Fisher   54   Stevens   58   Overtime 
     
      Alfred   60   Hartwick   76    
     
      Utica   66   Rochester Tech   53  


    Naz only by 11 over elmira? interesting.

    The E8 looks like a mess right now. The way things are going, this could be a 1-bid conference...well, unless IC goes 21-4 and blows the conference tournament again (only kidding Bomber3). But seriously, everyone but IC and Stevens has 5 losses already...

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on January 15, 2011, 02:47:58 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 15, 2011, 11:37:36 AM
    Quote from: magicman on January 15, 2011, 04:07:50 AM
    Results of Friday night's games.

     Elmira   58   Nazareth   69    
     
     St. John Fisher   54   Stevens   58   Overtime 
     
      Alfred   60   Hartwick   76    
     
      Utica   66   Rochester Tech   53  


    Naz only by 11 over elmira? interesting.

    The E8 looks like a mess right now. The way things are going, this could be a 1-bid conference...well, unless IC goes 21-4 and blows the conference tournament again (only kidding Bomber3). But seriously, everyone but IC and Stevens has 5 losses already...



    I'm really curious to see how this season plays out. Despite the Bombers loss to Utica, it seems like they are the class of the E8, but after IC and Stevens, it's really hard to figure out. I mean Hartwick is 2-1 in the league, with wins over Naz and Alfred, and a loss to RIT. Everybody else, except for Elmira, is bunched up in the middle. I know it's early yet, but it seems like it's usually a little more separated.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 16, 2011, 02:22:41 AM
    Saturday's results


    Rochester Tech   72   Elmira   55    
     
    St. John Fisher   73   Hartwick   66  Overtime  
     
    Alfred   57   Stevens   76  


    Standings through Jan. 15th

    1.   Ithaca                     4-1
    1.   Stevens                   4-1
    3.   St. John Fisher          4-2
    3.   RIT                          4-2
    5.   Hartwick                   2-2
    6.   Nazareth                  2-3
    6.   Utica                        2-3
    8.   Alfred                       2-4
    9.   Elmira                       0-6
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 16, 2011, 11:05:27 AM
    So right now it looks like my E8 Rookie of the Year prediction is starting to play like it.  The kid Sabbatino from Stevens is going to be a player in this league.  He looked very good against Fisher, including a momentum changing drive/dunk, and put up his first double double against Alfred.  I know Hurley likes to stick with his seniors so Franklin is still starting, but in crunch time he is using a lot more of the Thompson, Cutri, Jones, Smith, Sabbatino lineup.

    My assessment from the games this weekend:

    vs. St John Fisher
       These teams are basically even.  The difference between these teams is simple:  Stevens has one athlete (Jones) , Fisher doesn't have a single athlete.  Because of that Jones is the only guy on the court who can take his man to the basket and "make the play", and in a tight game that is often what it comes down to.  High School, College, Pro...it's all the same.  If you do not have a wing player that can create his own shot you will be in trouble in tough games.

    vs. Alfred
        AU is getting better, but not quite there yet.  Not a lot learned about Stevens from this one, but you have to beat these teams to advance so a good win for the Ducks. 

    I think Stevens will end up in the E8 tourney as the 3 seed, Ithaca garnering the 1.  Not sold on the Ducks on the road, but they are looking good early.  Game versus Ithaca will be telling.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 18, 2011, 06:10:23 AM
    New Top 25 Poll is out and Ithaca took a slight dip as they fall from the 20th to the 22nd spot. Their point total dropped from 76 last week to 59 for this week. Plattsburgh State has fall completely out of the poll and NYU has also tumbled almost out of sight as they only receive 1 point this week after holding down the 25th spot last week. No other East region team recieved a single point. Should Ithaca suffer 1 or 2 more losses they will surely drop off the list and I don't think there will be any East team to replace them.  Ther are no 1 or 2 loss teams left in the region. About the only way another East team will get any recognition would be if they go on an extended winning streak and maybe in the last several weeks of the poll a 21-4 or 20-5 team may get some support. Especially with so many teams in the bottom 10 spots changing so frequently due to multiple losses. Here's the link to the complete Top 25:

    http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2010-11/week7#
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 18, 2011, 09:44:22 PM
    Bombers top Elmira 101-67...nothing too spectacular, as only two bombers topped 15 points. Rossi with 9 assists and 1 turnover.

    Congratulations to Chris Cruz Rivas for scoring his 1,000th career point, the 21st Bomber to do so.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 18, 2011, 10:55:48 PM
    Fisher took another big step toward making the Me tourney, and stayed in the running for top two with a big win over Naz. Fisher jumped out to a double digit lead, only to have naz come back and take their first lead early in the second. But Fisher scored the next 8 points, and never looked back. A real big win tonight, and a great way to bounce back after the loss to Stevens (both wins).

    Some of the younger players are coming along for Fisher, and I am excited to see where they go from here. This weekend will be another huge weekend for Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 19, 2011, 09:09:02 AM
    Actually a big weekend....Fisher RIT will tell us something, and IC and Stevens big game. Kind of must win for IC being home.... by Must I mean to get home court in tourney, Stay ranked Nationally and locally. This also tells me if Stevens is for real. It appears right now, IC and Stevens have the upper hand, and Fisher, Rit and Hartwick looking for the other 2 spots. IF Stevens were to win, ( that would be huge for Ducks) than those 3 (maybe UC as well) looking for the next 2 spots. If Stevens loses (which should happen- would have all 5 still looking for those spots. Should I count NAZ out, hile still giving UC a chance.... I don't know. I guess best to wait until after weekend and then start all over :-\
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2011, 01:58:01 PM
    So, more than halfway through the season, early thoughts on E8 POY?

    Right now, I put it between Barrera, Smith and Sudderly

    Barrera is putting up a 17-8 on 66% shooting
    Sudderly is 17-9 on 50%
    Smith is 13-12 an 63%

    Ryder at 15-8 is in the discussion, as is Simon Smith with 13-12. Patterson at 16-4-3 steals might be as well.I suspect Rossi will get in the discussion, unless FROMAFAR has a vote ;)

    No clear winner. Right now I would lean to Barrera, with the shooting percentage in his favor, but a lot might depend on how Stevens and IC finish the year
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 20, 2011, 02:38:57 PM
    Bomber%^&*........   You really don't get it with Rossi.... Numerous times I have said he is a very good player....never questioned his WORTH to his team.... I just think HIS assists are over-rated. ( not his fault)...   Not saying assists are overa-rated, just saying some of HIS are or better yet questionable. Clearly anyone who plays 40 minutes a night on a team with IC's record is good at what he does.   Just hard for me to take ALL those assists seriously.   BUT let's not bore everyone with that again.  I think Smith gets a slight edge over Barrera..... Smith is on a team that I believe is over-achieving right now, and he could be very well be the reason, along with a surprise season out of Sheldon Jones.... Silly to pick right now, but certainly they will be in the discussion...The Stevens IC game should be an eye opener. Stevens "D" vs. IC "O"    my thought is Stevens isn't high scoring.....IC doesn't play D so Stevens will score a bit more than usual... Stevens will probably get into foul trouble..They are not as deep as IC so I look for a 78-68 final... IC. But ;)     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 20, 2011, 05:23:12 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 20, 2011, 02:38:57 PM
    Bomber%^&*........   You really don't get it with Rossi.... Numerous times I have said he is a very good player....never questioned his WORTH to his team.... I just think HIS assists are over-rated. ( not his fault)...   Not saying assists are overa-rated, just saying some of HIS are or better yet questionable. Clearly anyone who plays 40 minutes a night on a team with IC's record is good at what he does.   Just hard for me to take ALL those assists seriously.   BUT let's not bore everyone with that again.  I think Smith gets a slight edge over Barrera..... Smith is on a team that I believe is over-achieving right now, and he could be very well be the reason, along with a surprise season out of Sheldon Jones.... Silly to pick right now, but certainly they will be in the discussion...The Stevens IC game should be an eye opener. Stevens "D" vs. IC "O"    my thought is Stevens isn't high scoring.....IC doesn't play D so Stevens will score a bit more than usual... Stevens will probably get into foul trouble..They are not as deep as IC so I look for a 78-68 final... IC. But ;)     

    I get it...I just like busting your chops on it. It's boring and cold in Ithaca.

    It is worth noting that he and smith are the only two players with a double double right now. Although I'm not sure how seriously I take Smith's rebounds. I like my rebounds to be grabbed while another guy is right there and you have to fight for them. Smith catches them in space...

    J/K. I will say I am not a fan of Smith from the line. He's roughly 54% this season, 46% last season and 40% before. So while I give him credit for improving, I don't see as much value in a big man you can hack. Especially at the this level where you can have a deeper bench. If you're in a one and one situation especially late, fouling him can be as good as a turnover. Barera is a 74% career FT shooter.

    I had the same complaint with Mark Carson. You don't have to drain 90% of your shots, but flirting with 50% is a drawback in any player.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 20, 2011, 06:25:20 PM
    I think we found something we agree on.  There is absolutely no reason for a college player at any level that should shoot less than 70% from the foul line. There are too many hours of practice and available gym time to work on them.....BUT it shouldn't cost a player with Smith's numbers an award. Remember I didn't say he deserved it yet... I give him the slight edge, because he means more to his team...yes Barrera is imporatnt but he has support. IF he has a bad night IC can still win even against a good opponent, but the Ducks, I don't think can beat good ooponents without Smith.....But I also said there are more games to come so silly to debate yet.   I have a question, serious.... when a player throws the ball off the backboard so a following team-mate can dunk..is it an assist?  Is it a missed shot?  can't be both...can it be neither? . ......Or is it subjective...help me out....Bomber your the retired stat guy......  :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 20, 2011, 08:00:51 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 20, 2011, 06:25:20 PM
    I think we found something we agree on.  There is absolutely no reason for a college player at any level that should shoot less than 70% from the foul line. There are too many hours of practice and available gym time to work on them.....BUT it shouldn't cost a player with Smith's numbers an award. Remember I didn't say he deserved it yet... I give him the slight edge, because he means more to his team...yes Barrera is imporatnt but he has support. IF he has a bad night IC can still win even against a good opponent, but the Ducks, I don't think can beat good ooponents without Smith.....But I also said there are more games to come so silly to debate yet.   I have a question, serious.... when a player throws the ball off the backboard so a following team-mate can dunk..is it an assist?  Is it a missed shot?  can't be both...can it be neither? . ......Or is it subjective...help me out....Bomber your the retired stat guy......  :D

    1) Re: the assist-- I think it would kind of be up to the stat guy to determine if this was an intended pass or not.

    2) Now to continue to disagree with you ;)...I confess I never liked the "They can win without him" logic. I mean, that kind of penalizes good teams. In Barera's case though I think the answer is no. Barera is the most valuable player on the team. Mullins has his starting five and two backups--Grier and Jordan, both of whom are guards. The only other guy with the size to play inside is Oztemel, and he's basically a three-point specialist (A good one, but there's no getting around that he's taken 18 two-point shots all season)

    Consider: In Ithaca's first loss, Barera only played 21 minutes. In those 21 minutes, he went 8-for-9 from the floor for 16 points. Ithaca's other two centers played 11 total minutes and had zero points. Without Barera, you're playing 4-on-5 offensively, which makes them much easier to defend. You can concentrate everything on the perimeter.

    Another case in point would be the Cortland game. The Bombers fire up nothing but bricks from the outside, but Barera goes 16-of-18 from the floor. Take him out, and there's no way the Bombers win that game the way they were shooting threes.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 21, 2011, 10:42:47 AM
    Bomber #$% Consider this, first of all neither team has experienced playing without Barera or Smith, so until that happens .   Look at the Ducks vs. Merchant Marine Academy... one of the 3 losses... Smith has 4 PTs. only gets off 4 shots.... Ducks lose. The point is, both have played in every game. Bararra hasn't had a bad game ( I think)... Smith has one and they lose to a team they should beat.  Of course this example and reasoning doesn't necessarily make my point, but it is a start. Your first example makes some sense, the second one is tough to sell.  The cold shooting may ahve nothing to do with Barrera only playing 21 minutes...  I THINK we can both agree, we need more info to actually know FIRST OF ALL if either team can win without them, and may never know which one is needed more.  HEY may be we will get a beeter idea tonight... ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 21, 2011, 09:43:46 PM
    Not bad for a guy who doesn't watch many e-8 games ... 73-68 IC I predicted 78-68 IC....If Rossi just had two more assists..............
    The Smith, Barerra matchup... pretty even in this one............. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 21, 2011, 10:01:20 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 21, 2011, 09:43:46 PM
    Not bad for a guy who doesn't watch many e-8 games ... 73-68 IC I predicted 78-68 IC....If Rossi just had two more assists..............
    The Smith, Barerra matchup... pretty even in this one............. ;)

    It was an odd game to say the least. Bombers led 34-15 and looked like they were going to run Stevens out of the gym. Then the shots just stopped falling. Stevens did an outstanding job taking away the easy three-pointers by the Bombers. Outside of Barera, Ithaca hit just three shots in the second half.

    Yeah, Smith and Barera played to a draw I would say. One thing about Smith is that he's the ONLY guy on Stevens to really get any rebounds. He had 18 and no-one else on Stevens had more than four. Ithaca had three guys with eight or more and Cruz had six.

    I was really impressed with Stevens. They could have folded early and fought back tough. Looking forward to the rematch
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on January 22, 2011, 11:05:52 AM
    Just some observations. Stevens big's shoot 17 for 30, compared to 13 for 42 for everyone else, Smith over 60% for the year yet they get no touches the last 2 min when the game is one the line. You guys include Smith in the POY talk but he is the 3rd or 4th option in their offensive plan, Why? As a side note it seemed that more the 1 of his game high 18 rebounds were made with Ithaca players in the area working to get the rebound.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 22, 2011, 12:48:26 PM
    Quote from: Old Duck on January 22, 2011, 11:05:52 AM
    As a side note it seemed that more the 1 of his game high 18 rebounds were made with Ithaca players in the area working to get the rebound.

    Clearly you don't understand sarcasm...

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 22, 2011, 05:42:15 PM
    Big win for Fisher today as they beat RIT by 19. Ithaca struggling with Hartwick in overtime.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 22, 2011, 05:43:36 PM
    I have to say I did not expect Hartwick to be this good. What has caused the team to come so far so quick?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 22, 2011, 07:31:44 PM
    Hey Old Duck, I'm with you..... Smith should be the go to guy, no question. The only other options are Cutri and Jones... I wouldn't depend a 3 pt shooter, and Jones while certainly has improved still appears out of control at times....AND of course you go to needs to be a 60% shooter whon can get a better % shot, just like  IC uses Barerra.  My point when I stated Barrera has a better supporting cast than Smith... I have seen Smith play and heis the real deal.....I think he has played almost 3 years now and has had only one true point guard who looked for as a first option... of course that was Greco....  Not sure I undesrtand sarcasm...... did I miss something AGAIN? ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 22, 2011, 11:42:47 PM
    Crazy game at the Bulb as Ithaca misses a chance to put some distance between them and the rest of the conference. Five teams now sit with two losses in conference play. With Ithaca playing 6 of the 8 remaining games on the road, there's a very real chance they go something like say, 18-7 and don't even qualify for the conference tournament.

    Phil Barera with a statement game on offense...19-of-25 shooting for 38 points. Simply unreal. Rossi with 20 points and 13 assists. Barera is simply a beast inside. To be shooting 68% and taking that many shots is astounding.

    Neither team played a semblance of inside defense. Hartwick was 32-of-45 on two point shots and Ithaca was 28-of-43.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 23, 2011, 10:53:51 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 22, 2011, 11:42:47 PM
    Crazy game at the Bulb as Ithaca misses a chance to put some distance between them and the rest of the conference. Five teams now sit with two losses in conference play. With Ithaca playing 6 of the 8 remaining games on the road, there's a very real chance they go something like say, 18-7 and don't even qualify for the conference tournament.

    Phil Barera with a statement game on offense...19-of-25 shooting for 38 points. Simply unreal. Rossi with 20 points and 13 assists. Barera is simply a beast inside. To be shooting 68% and taking that many shots is astounding.

    Neither team played a semblance of inside defense. Hartwick was 32-of-45 on two point shots and Ithaca was 28-of-43.

    And that loss by the Bombers may well knock them out of the D3hoops Top 25. I fear the East Region wiill have no representation. Outside chance Oswego State with a win over Ithaca and the fact that their 3 losses are by a total of 7 points might get some support.

    Bombers, you don't really believe what you wrote about Ithaca, thatthere's a very real chance they may not qualify for the conference tournament? The worst they do in those final 8 games is 5-3(which will be good enough) but more likely 6-2 or 7-1. I still believe they're the best team in the league and not only will they qualify for the E8 tournament, they will host it. Now whether or not they win it, well that's another story. ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 23, 2011, 01:33:57 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 23, 2011, 10:53:51 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 22, 2011, 11:42:47 PM
    Crazy game at the Bulb as Ithaca misses a chance to put some distance between them and the rest of the conference. Five teams now sit with two losses in conference play. With Ithaca playing 6 of the 8 remaining games on the road, there's a very real chance they go something like say, 18-7 and don't even qualify for the conference tournament.

    Phil Barera with a statement game on offense...19-of-25 shooting for 38 points. Simply unreal. Rossi with 20 points and 13 assists. Barera is simply a beast inside. To be shooting 68% and taking that many shots is astounding.

    Neither team played a semblance of inside defense. Hartwick was 32-of-45 on two point shots and Ithaca was 28-of-43.

    And that loss by the Bombers may well knock them out of the D3hoops Top 25. I fear the East Region wiill have no representation. Outside chance Oswego State with a win over Ithaca and the fact that their 3 losses are by a total of 7 points might get some support.

    Bombers, you don't really believe what you wrote about Ithaca, thatthere's a very real chance they may not qualify for the conference tournament? The worst they do in those final 8 games is 5-3(which will be good enough) but more likely 6-2 or 7-1. I still believe they're the best team in the league and not only will they qualify for the E8 tournament, they will host it. Now whether or not they win it, well that's another story. ;D

    Why not? First off, I don't think the "worst" they could do is 5-3. They have to play two teams that already beat them. Second, they have to go to Stevens and Fisher, and it wasn't like the Bombers cruised in those games at home.

    The math is a nightmare, so maybe it's not possible that a team goes something like 10-6 and gets left out.

    But right now, there are five teams with two losses in conference. Someone's getting left out with a semi-decent conference record. Why couldn't it be Ithaca?

    Sure, you look at a team like Ithaca and say "How can a team that talented not make it?", but then you remember...100 against Hartwick, 95 against Fisher, 92 against Wesley, 97 against Franklin and Marshall, 95 against Oswego State, 86 against Oneonta State, 87 against Hobart...

    I think it's great that Ithaca can score 90-100 points a game. I think it's disconcerting that they often have to.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 23, 2011, 06:11:14 PM
    Bombers,
    Of course you're right, Ithaca could go 4-4 or 3-5 and miss the playoffs. But aren't you playing devil's advocate just a bit. Let me put it this way: Where do you think the Bombers will finish in the regular season? If not in 1st place who will be ahead of them?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 23, 2011, 09:52:09 PM
    I can't see a scenario that does not have Ithaca in the tournament, I could understand if Bombers had said they may not host the tournament, but to not make it at all?

    I will say that Ithaca's loss to Hartwick is going to make their road to the NCAA much tougher, with most of their games down the stretch being away from home. But, they still have to be the favorite to win the regular season conference race.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 23, 2011, 11:13:10 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 23, 2011, 09:52:09 PM
    I can't see a scenario that does not have Ithaca in the tournament, I could understand if Bombers had said they may not host the tournament, but to not make it at all?

    I will say that Ithaca's loss to Hartwick is going to make their road to the NCAA much tougher, with most of their games down the stretch being away from home. But, they still have to be the favorite to win the regular season conference race.

    Look, all I'm saying is that there's five teams with two losses, and one of them is going to get left out. Why not Ithaca? This is a team that went 4-4 on the road in conference play last season and has already lost on the road to a Utica team that looks pretty ordinary.

    Are they going to make the tournament? Probably. I'd be stunned if they didn't. This team is something like 5th in the NCAA in scoring. But they're also something like 375th in scoring defense so it's not like they're bulletproof
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on January 24, 2011, 08:53:11 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 22, 2011, 12:48:26 PM
    Quote from: Old Duck on January 22, 2011, 11:05:52 AM
    As a side note it seemed that more the 1 of his game high 18 rebounds were made with Ithaca players in the area working to get the rebound.

    Clearly you don't understand sarcasm...



    I was commenting on this statement.

    "It is worth noting that he and smith are the only two players with a double double right now. Although I'm not sure how seriously I take Smith's rebounds. I like my rebounds to be grabbed while another guy is right there and you have to fight for them. Smith catches them in space..."

    Don't take it personally, it's just that I have watched him for quite a few years and one thing he is not is soft in the rebounding area.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on January 24, 2011, 10:24:51 AM
    @Old Duck - The sarcasm refers back to the whole Rossi "assists" discussion.  Not sure if you read the boards for that one but Bombs was just making a little jab about Smith rebounds = Rossi assists, in that some of them are chippies.  Not starting the debate again, just clearing up the joke from Bombs.

    @ Bombs - I agree that Ithaca will be in the tournament but needs to be wary.  I am more opposed than you to the "we'll just outscore you" mindset of playing basketball, because it relies too much on something you can't control:  how you shoot.  As seen with Hartwick, even if your inside game is dominant, if you have built a culture, via practice and previous game play, of relying on shooting and out-running the competition, then either one of two things will lead to losses, generally both:  1) you don't shoot well and hence put up less points   and/or  2) the other team goes point for point with you and is used to playing for stops so they get just a few more stops than you.

    I know as a player and coach it was always easier to get a team to score than to get a team to defend.  Scoring is a partially a product of what the opponent does:  If they don't defend well, I can get layups because I have competent college players on the court.  Meanwhile, you can't just "turn on" a defensive mindset in a game.

    I do think that Ithaca will represent the E8 in the NCAA tournament so I think this style of play won't necessarily ruin them in conference, but certainly in the early tournament rounds if they get the wrong matchup.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 24, 2011, 11:15:48 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on January 24, 2011, 10:24:51 AM
    @Old Duck - The sarcasm refers back to the whole Rossi "assists" discussion.  Not sure if you read the boards for that one but Bombs was just making a little jab about Smith rebounds = Rossi assists, in that some of them are chippies.  Not starting the debate again, just clearing up the joke from Bombs.

    @ Bombs - I agree that Ithaca will be in the tournament but needs to be wary.  I am more opposed than you to the "we'll just outscore you" mindset of playing basketball, because it relies too much on something you can't control:  how you shoot.  As seen with Hartwick, even if your inside game is dominant, if you have built a culture, via practice and previous game play, of relying on shooting and out-running the competition, then either one of two things will lead to losses, generally both:  1) you don't shoot well and hence put up less points   and/or  2) the other team goes point for point with you and is used to playing for stops so they get just a few more stops than you.

    I know as a player and coach it was always easier to get a team to score than to get a team to defend.  Scoring is a partially a product of what the opponent does:  If they don't defend well, I can get layups because I have competent college players on the court.  Meanwhile, you can't just "turn on" a defensive mindset in a game.

    I do think that Ithaca will represent the E8 in the NCAA tournament so I think this style of play won't necessarily ruin them in conference, but certainly in the early tournament rounds if they get the wrong matchup.

    Cyclone-- Thanks for illustrating what I was going for with the rebounds

    The thing with Ithaca is they seem to get frustrated and lazy when the jumpers aren't falling. Mullins absolutely lit into the team in the second half of the Wick game for not hustling. I've never seen him that angry before. Obviously, they responded well, because they rallied, but came up short. I remember Sean Burton's frustration in the 2009 E8 game against Nazareth as the Golden Flyers (smartly) abandoned trying to run with Ithaca and took the Bombers out of their style.

    A lot of it relates to defense. Because the Bombers can't get a lot of stops, leads dissipate quickly. Even the Stevens game, where the Bombers played well defensively overall, the Bombers let a 16-point lead get down to two in the second half.

    Again, I suspect the Bombers will make the tournament. But they're not the kind of team--or program--I feel comfortable saying "Guarantee" with.

    I'm sure bomber3 thinks I get some secret pleasure out of watching Ithaca lose. On the contrary, I want what they and he wants. But I think the fundamental difference we have is that he's of the mindset that you should always believe in the teams you follow, where I feel that a mindset like that should be reserved for teams that have rewarded that faith in the somewhat recent past.

    Case in point, as a Michigan State fan, this season has been brutal to watch. But how many times have the Spartans wandered through the regular season only to wind up in the Final Four? It may not happen this season, but MSU has certainly earned the benefit of the doubt, so I'll reserve judging till March. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 24, 2011, 02:59:51 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 23, 2011, 11:13:10 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 23, 2011, 09:52:09 PM
    I can't see a scenario that does not have Ithaca in the tournament, I could understand if Bombers had said they may not host the tournament, but to not make it at all?

    I will say that Ithaca's loss to Hartwick is going to make their road to the NCAA much tougher, with most of their games down the stretch being away from home. But, they still have to be the favorite to win the regular season conference race.

    Look, all I'm saying is that there's five teams with two losses, and one of them is going to get left out. Why not Ithaca? This is a team that went 4-4 on the road in conference play last season and has already lost on the road to a Utica team that looks pretty ordinary.

    Are they going to make the tournament? Probably. I'd be stunned if they didn't. This team is something like 5th in the NCAA in scoring. But they're also something like 375th in scoring defense so it's not like they're bulletproof

    I guess I can see what you are saying. If you look at it on paper Ithaca probably has the toughest road of all the teams with 2 losses, but the talent level should make up for a lot of that. The nice thing if you are Ithaca is that you have gotten a bunch of wins early and out of conference so you may not need to hold up the Me trophy at the end of the year to get in (do they get a trophy?). To be honest I don't know off the top of my head how many losses they have but if they finish with 5 or 6 losses it is probably enough with some of their key wins.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 24, 2011, 04:08:55 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 24, 2011, 02:59:51 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 23, 2011, 11:13:10 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 23, 2011, 09:52:09 PM
    I can't see a scenario that does not have Ithaca in the tournament, I could understand if Bombers had said they may not host the tournament, but to not make it at all?

    I will say that Ithaca's loss to Hartwick is going to make their road to the NCAA much tougher, with most of their games down the stretch being away from home. But, they still have to be the favorite to win the regular season conference race.

    Look, all I'm saying is that there's five teams with two losses, and one of them is going to get left out. Why not Ithaca? This is a team that went 4-4 on the road in conference play last season and has already lost on the road to a Utica team that looks pretty ordinary.

    Are they going to make the tournament? Probably. I'd be stunned if they didn't. This team is something like 5th in the NCAA in scoring. But they're also something like 375th in scoring defense so it's not like they're bulletproof

    I guess I can see what you are saying. If you look at it on paper Ithaca probably has the toughest road of all the teams with 2 losses, but the talent level should make up for a lot of that. The nice thing if you are Ithaca is that you have gotten a bunch of wins early and out of conference so you may not need to hold up the Me trophy at the end of the year to get in (do they get a trophy?). To be honest I don't know off the top of my head how many losses they have but if they finish with 5 or 6 losses it is probably enough with some of their key wins.

    That's a really good point. Ithaca's 13-4 right now. I would suspect they'd be in the hunt for a Pool C bid if they went, say, 18-7, even if they missed the conference tournament. But I confess to knowing nothing about the at-large selection process.

    This is a good Ithaca team, no doubt. I think, from what I've seen on the court, they're stronger offensively than the 2008-2009 team. They've got guys who can shoot from the outside, guys who can get to the hole, and the best inside offensive threat in the conference. There's not that do-it-all player like Burton or a commanding inside defensive presence like Bostic, but you're right, they are the most talented team in the conference, and there's no reason they can't win the tournament.

    But that last part is exactly why I will be hard on them if they lose. This team has been entirely too talented over the past 3+ years to go 0-4 in E8/NCAA tournament play, and at some point, you just have to win the games when it matters. It's time to get over that plateau.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on January 24, 2011, 10:29:45 PM
    Magicman is probably the guy to ask but I think that a Pool C bid with 7 losses is very unlikely.  At this point it is very early to say but historically 7 losses is quite a few for a Pool C bid unless a few of the wins are absolutely stellar.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 25, 2011, 05:23:37 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on January 24, 2011, 10:29:45 PM
    Magicman is probably the guy to ask but I think that a Pool C bid with 7 losses is very unlikely.  At this point it is very early to say but historically 7 losses is quite a few for a Pool C bid unless a few of the wins are absolutely stellar.

    with age is correct when he says that historically 7 losses is quite a few for a Pool C bid.
    Any team with 7 losses is not looking good for a Pool C bid. The only way that would occur is if a bunch of those 7 losses were out of region or to non-D3 teams.

    Ithaca currently has 4 losses and unfortunately all of them are regional losses. Even 1 more regional loss would put them on shaky ground  but 2 or 3 more and the only post season trip they'll make will be to the ECAC's. The East hasn't exactly been a powerhouse region this year and we could be looking at very few Pool C bids coming our way.

    East region teams that are still alive for a Pool C bid with regional losses noted:

    Hobart    13-3 overall record   2 regional losses

    Univ. of Rochester    12-4 overall   3 regional losses

    Oswego St.    11-3 overall     3 regional losses

    Plattsburgh St   10-5 overall     3 regional losses

    Ithaca    13-4 overall    4 regional losses

    Medaille   13-5  overall   4 regional losses

    NYU   12-4  overall   4 regional losses

    Stevens 11-4 overall  4 regional losses

    Hamilton  9-5 overall  4 regional losses

    Any East region team not listed here has no shot at a Pool C (at large) bid. When I say that these teams are still alive, a lot of them are on life support. 1 more regional loss will probably doom most teams with 4 losses already. The East region will get at best 2 Pool C bids but it wouldn't surprise me if we only get 1, and none isn't out of the question. If the current league leaders, Hobart, Oswego St, Ithaca, and Rochester, all receive the automatic Pool A bids, then the other teams in the running from those conferences better have a good run to end the season. They might get in with 1 more regular season loss and another loss in the conference tournament. But that loss in the conference tournament had better be in the championship game, because an early round tournament loss will be a killer. Hamilton found that out 2 years ago. They went into their conference tournament with an 18-6 record and only 3 regional losses but lost a first round game to RPI. They didn't get a bid. If they win that game and lose the next game in the finals they make the dance. Our chances for more East region teams getting to the NCAA's will increase if  Hobart, Oswego, or Ithaca win the regular season titles in their respective leagues, then get upset in their tournament. Of course that scenario is predicated on the fact that they continue to play well.

    Rochester's in the UAA league and that conference doesn't have a tournament. The winner of the regular season will get the automatic bid. The  league always seems to get a couple of teams into the tournament and some years they've had 3 or 4 teams get bids. The UAA is a little down this year but if Rochester continues to play well (they currently are tied for 1st place with a 4-1 league record) they stand a decent chance to get a Pool C bid if they come up short in the regular season. The other teams in the East should be rooting for the Yellowjackets to win that automatic bid, because that would mean 1 less East team competing for a potential solitary Pool C.         
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 25, 2011, 05:57:32 AM
    New D3hoops Top 25 poll out and as expected Ithaca drops out of the rankings.
    Bombers fall into the others recieving votes category as they tumble from #22 with 59 points to #37 with 8 points. Only other teams from the East region to get a mention were Hobart with 2 points and Rochester with 1 point.

    Here's the link to the complete Top 25 rankings:

    http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2010-11/week8
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on January 25, 2011, 09:13:46 AM
    The right hand man at RIT--better known as Stick--has really got the bigs boarding over there. Rumor has it that he was quite the rebounding machine back in his day at Eisenhower College in the Tin Gym.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 25, 2011, 02:45:39 PM
    This Naz-Ithaca game on the 28th in really intriguing. It's really going to be do or die for Naz at that point. With four losses already in E8 play, (I think they'll top Alfred tonight) and four road games after it, they really can't afford to lose to the Bombers again.

    It looms as a big game for IC too. The current 5th place team in the conference, RIT hasn't played them yet, and they're no slouch. IC needs to get this spate of road games off to a good start
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 26, 2011, 07:05:20 AM
    FROMAFAR,
    Well I gave you the winner of the Hartwick-Stevens game and almost had the exact MOV, missing by a point. Hope you got a bet down with one of those NY or NJ bookies. :D My prediction of Hartwick winning 72-69 was a little lower than the actual score of 82-78 , but I thought there would be a little more defense especially by the Ducks. Big win though for Hartwick as they move into a tie for 1st place. Don't think anybody saw the Hawks being this competetive this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on January 26, 2011, 10:26:29 AM
    Not to brag, but...

    Quote from: TheNextLevel on January 08, 2011, 12:16:10 PM
    Hartwick continues to improve...beat Naz on the road last night.   Blazak is back from his hamstring injury (missed the whole 1st semester) and freshman Jared Sudderly is a legit player.  I think they will make the E-8 Playoffs this year.
    Quote from: magicman on January 26, 2011, 07:05:20 AM

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 26, 2011, 11:26:00 AM
    Quote from: TheNextLevel on January 26, 2011, 10:26:29 AM
    Not to brag, but...

    Quote from: TheNextLevel on January 08, 2011, 12:16:10 PM
    Hartwick continues to improve...beat Naz on the road last night.   Blazak is back from his hamstring injury (missed the whole 1st semester) and freshman Jared Sudderly is a legit player.  I think they will make the E-8 Playoffs this year.
    Quote from: magicman on January 26, 2011, 07:05:20 AM



    The Wick is certainly legit. In fact, they strike me as Ithaca lite.

    Much like the Bombers, the Wick seems heavily dependent on the 3-point shot. They don't shoot an ungodly amount like IC does, but they've got three guys shooting over 42% and one guy at 54%. As a team, they are 40% from beyond the arc. They have an inside threat, but strike me as a jump shot shooting team. They don't play at IC's frenetic pace, but the similarities are there. Would love a rematch in the e8 tourney
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 26, 2011, 12:52:33 PM
    magic you were right on about the Ducks and Wick.  Bomber #$% as difficult as this is to say, you too are right... ::)Wick is a lot like IC on both ends... They throw up the 3's, and don't play too much D. I watched the Wick game last night and what surprised me was Stevens who I thought was the best defensive team in the league....played lazy on the defensive.. if someone was there let me know... I watched on computer and not a great picture.... 78 pts is a lot for Stevens and looked like Wicks bigs don't rebound well... Stevens crushed them on the boards.... But their bigs can shoot, and played away from hole for the most part on "O".

    Back to Magic... RIT has a 3 big games coming up..... What's your thoughts?

    Right now I am thinking IC and Wick are in the tourney ... Fisher, Stevens, have an edge on RIT,  and NAZ but not a big one... Stevens beat Naz, and RIT beat Stevens...... Who has the edge? I know Stevens has a lot of home games at the end of season, but not historically a home advantage the last couple of years... any thoughts... Bomber $%^ feel free to chime in, or anyone for that matter. ;)

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 26, 2011, 01:25:22 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 26, 2011, 12:52:33 PM
    magic you were right on about the Ducks and Wick.  Bomber #$% as difficult as this is to say, you too are right... ::)Wick is a lot like IC on both ends... They throw up the 3's, and don't play too much D. I watched the Wick game last night and what surprised me was Stevens who I thought was the best defensive team in the league....played lazy on the defensive.. if someone was there let me know... I watched on computer and not a great picture.... 78 pts is a lot for Stevens and looked like Wicks bigs don't rebound well... Stevens crushed them on the boards.... But their bigs can shoot, and played away from hole for the most part on "O".

    Back to Magic... RIT has a 3 big games coming up..... What's your thoughts?

    Right now I am thinking IC and Wick are in the tourney ... Fisher, Stevens, have an edge on RIT,  and NAZ but not a big one... Stevens beat Naz, and RIT beat Stevens...... Who has the edge? I know Stevens has a lot of home games at the end of season, but not historically a home advantage the last couple of years... any thoughts... Bomber $%^ feel free to chime in, or anyone for that matter. ;)



    RIT is really the wild-card in all this. One thing that makes them different than other contenders is that they haven't played Ithaca (or Alfred) Alfred probably won't provide an issue, but it's tough to gauge those fringe teams when they haven't played one of the top teams yet. It's also worth noting they are the only E8 team to not have a game against Elmira remaining. Not to rip on Elmira, but it's simply a fact: It's hard to look at that game as anything but a win for the other E8 teams.

    I have a tougher time getting on board with them considering the other schools have already dealt with IC once AND get a second crack at Elmira. I think it's Stevens, RIT and Naz for that last spot. I like the Ducks due to the favorable schedule
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3lifer on January 26, 2011, 03:36:00 PM
    Was at the Stevens-Wick game last night, the first half was much more frenetic than the second; 45-43 Stevens at half. Neither team had any ball pressure and teams both struggled to defensive rebound particularly Wick providing Stevens with some key second chance points.

    Hartwick did a good job of executing offensively in the half court and Stevens did a much better job in the second half attacking the zone looks Hartwick gave off the dribble as they did not shoot the ball as well from deep in the 2nd half.

    I have not seen enough conference match ups to know where Stevens fits in with the rest of the playoff picture but seem to be a handful of team still trying to establish themselves...

    Hats off to Hartwick through this part of their conference schedule...but still a bunch of games left and this is unfamiliar territory for the Wick program since the Empire 8 conference has been around. I am pulling for the hawks to be in the race to the finish line, they seem to play really well together.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 26, 2011, 06:10:29 PM
    I'm pretty up close with RIT from a fan's prospective. They gave their fans some hope at the end of last year, and I know I over-rated that for this year. Back to their lazy play. Actually I agree IC, Wick and Fisher look like they will make it. Ducks Tigers and NAZ for the last spot.... NAZ has to really turn it around, I think, to get in before Ducks as they lost to them, and RIT has an edge, FOR THE MOMENT... small moment, on Ducks because they beat them. BUT NAZ beat Tigers, so ??????So I guess that says we still don't know... which is a good thing.. makes every game important.... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on January 27, 2011, 02:41:54 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 26, 2011, 12:52:33 PM
    magic you were right on about the Ducks and Wick.  Bomber #$% as difficult as this is to say, you too are right... ::)Wick is a lot like IC on both ends... They throw up the 3's, and don't play too much D. I watched the Wick game last night and what surprised me was Stevens who I thought was the best defensive team in the league....played lazy on the defensive.. if someone was there let me know... I watched on computer and not a great picture.... 78 pts is a lot for Stevens and looked like Wicks bigs don't rebound well... Stevens crushed them on the boards.... But their bigs can shoot, and played away from hole for the most part on "O".


    Stevens played very soft on defense in the first half and the HC bigs took advantage. Traveling the same day from NJ to NY may explain the some lack of intensity but the main problem was that they were giving to many clear looks at the basket when did their switching on defense.  They had the same problem with Ithaca but were able to adjust after the initial onslaught. Close game to the end with HC executing better then Stevens the last 5 minutes of the game. Stevens made more of an attempt then usual to get the ball inside at the end of the game but HC clogged up the lane well and Stevens had problems scoring inside and from the perimeter.

    As far as the playoffs Stevens may have some advantage with their odd home and away conference schedule.  Right now they are 3 and 3 on the road and 2 and 0 at home. The 3 loses are by 4 (HC), 5 (IC) and 3 (RIT) points. The remaining conference schedule is 2 away and 6 at home, with the last 5 conference games at home.  But the home court at Stevens does not seem to be as friendly as some of the home courts in the Great White North.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 28, 2011, 11:47:50 AM
    Does Naz stay alive tonight? Sadly, I think no. Ithaca, refocused after the Wick loss, pulls it out, 91-84 and hands Naz a 5th conference loss, severely damaging their tournament hopes.

    (Bomber3 never shows up when I pick IC to win. But I bet if I had said Naz was going to win he'd be all over me  ;) )
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 28, 2011, 09:50:27 PM
    Bombers win a shootout with Nazareth, 88-86. Ithaca trails by eight in the second half, but the offense kicks in and Bombers pick up a huge win.

    Phil Barera is once again the offensive hero for the Bombers, as he puts up 23 points on 10-of-12 shooting and 3-of-3 from the line. He adds nine rebounds. Christian Jordan goes 4-of-6 from three, although Ithaca as a team struggles from deep. Six Bombers reach double figures. Rossi with a mere nine assists.

    Thysun Stephens leads all scorers with 26 points and Scaffidi chips in with 18 and 11.

    I'll keep saying it till it comes true: Barera is the top player in the conference. Tonight's performance means he is shooting 68.1% from the floor and 80.5% from the line. This continues to be crucial, as the Bombers start losing their outside touch, shooting under 35% from three point range for the fourth straight game.

    Bombers improve to 7-2 in conference, 14-4 overall
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 28, 2011, 09:57:53 PM
    Elsewhere, Stevens effectively ends Utica's hopes of a bid with a 67-57 win, giving Utica six conference losses.

    Fisher tops Elmira 67-55 and RIT beats Alfred 80-66. So no upsets tonight, but there's beginning to be some separation, as Naz now sits two games behind RIT for the 5th spot in the conference.

    RIT hanging around a game behind Stevens for the last spot. A win over Ithaca helps a ton.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 29, 2011, 11:03:54 AM
    The conference season should be good down the stretch with Ithaca, Fisher, Stevens, Hartwick, and RIT in the mix. Fisher has Stevens, Ithaca, and Hartwick at home, and ROT is like a home game so I like there chances of hosting a game in the tournament. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 29, 2011, 12:53:46 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 29, 2011, 11:03:54 AM
    The conference season should be good down the stretch with Ithaca, Fisher, Stevens, Hartwick, and RIT in the mix. Fisher has Stevens, Ithaca, and Hartwick at home, and ROT is like a home game so I like there chances of hosting a game in the tournament. 

    Well, remember, the #1 seed hosts all the games in the conference tournament, so you'd have to have SJF finish first--a distinct possibility, unless they lose to Ithaca.

    Either way, the conference champ looks like the only team in the NCAA's (Unless Ithaca goes, say, 21 or 22-5 and loses in the conference tourney...but how likely is that?  ;) )
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 29, 2011, 01:37:11 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 29, 2011, 12:53:46 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 29, 2011, 11:03:54 AM
    The conference season should be good down the stretch with Ithaca, Fisher, Stevens, Hartwick, and RIT in the mix. Fisher has Stevens, Ithaca, and Hartwick at home, and ROT is like a home game so I like there chances of hosting a game in the tournament. 

    Well, remember, the #1 seed hosts all the games in the conference tournament, so you'd have to have SJF finish first--a distinct possibility, unless they lose to Ithaca.

    Either way, the conference champ looks like the only team in the NCAA's (Unless Ithaca goes, say, 21 or 22-5 and loses in the conference tourney...but how likely is that?  ;) )

    Does the #1 seed host all three games? I thought the first round was played at the higher seed?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 29, 2011, 02:02:16 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 29, 2011, 01:37:11 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 29, 2011, 12:53:46 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 29, 2011, 11:03:54 AM
    The conference season should be good down the stretch with Ithaca, Fisher, Stevens, Hartwick, and RIT in the mix. Fisher has Stevens, Ithaca, and Hartwick at home, and ROT is like a home game so I like there chances of hosting a game in the tournament. 

    Well, remember, the #1 seed hosts all the games in the conference tournament, so you'd have to have SJF finish first--a distinct possibility, unless they lose to Ithaca.

    Either way, the conference champ looks like the only team in the NCAA's (Unless Ithaca goes, say, 21 or 22-5 and loses in the conference tourney...but how likely is that?  ;) )

    Does the #1 seed host all three games? I thought the first round was played at the higher seed?


    Since only 4 teams make the playoffs, there's only 2 games. 1 plays 4, and 2 plays 3. The 2 winners of those games play for the championship. ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 29, 2011, 04:34:27 PM
    Bombers with a 41-38 halftime lead at RIT

    Terry leads all scorers with 15 points

    For Ithaca, Barera has 12 points and five rebounds, Cruz has seven and eight. Rossi has seven with six assists
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 29, 2011, 05:51:03 PM
    The Bombers hold on and win 81-76 against RIT. Up by three with less than 15 seconds to go, Rivas pulls down a Barera miss, then rebounds his own miss and puts it in to clinch it.

    Bombers showing some grit and gutting out two straight tough road games to go to 8-2 in conference and 15-4 overall. RIT takes a big loss and falls to 5-4 in the E8.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 29, 2011, 06:51:05 PM
    Leaders from the RIT/Ithaca game:

    RIT: Terry-- 31 pts; Heisig-- 21 pts, 8 reb

    IC: Barera-- 21 pts, 12 reb; Cruz-Rivas-- 17 pts, 13 reb, 5 stls; Rossi-- 13 pts, 10 asst

    Barera hits his first career 3-point basket
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 30, 2011, 04:14:05 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 29, 2011, 02:02:16 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 29, 2011, 01:37:11 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 29, 2011, 12:53:46 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 29, 2011, 11:03:54 AM
    The conference season should be good down the stretch with Ithaca, Fisher, Stevens, Hartwick, and RIT in the mix. Fisher has Stevens, Ithaca, and Hartwick at home, and ROT is like a home game so I like there chances of hosting a game in the tournament. 

    Well, remember, the #1 seed hosts all the games in the conference tournament, so you'd have to have SJF finish first--a distinct possibility, unless they lose to Ithaca.

    Either way, the conference champ looks like the only team in the NCAA's (Unless Ithaca goes, say, 21 or 22-5 and loses in the conference tourney...but how likely is that?  ;) )

    Does the #1 seed host all three games? I thought the first round was played at the higher seed?


    Since only 4 teams make the playoffs, there's only 2 games. 1 plays 4, and 2 plays 3. The 2 winners of those games play for the championship. ;D

    I was thinking the two first round games and the championship. 2+1=3. I thought the higher seed hosted each game, but maybe not.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 30, 2011, 10:22:01 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 30, 2011, 04:14:05 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 29, 2011, 02:02:16 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 29, 2011, 01:37:11 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 29, 2011, 12:53:46 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 29, 2011, 11:03:54 AM
    The conference season should be good down the stretch with Ithaca, Fisher, Stevens, Hartwick, and RIT in the mix. Fisher has Stevens, Ithaca, and Hartwick at home, and ROT is like a home game so I like there chances of hosting a game in the tournament. 

    Well, remember, the #1 seed hosts all the games in the conference tournament, so you'd have to have SJF finish first--a distinct possibility, unless they lose to Ithaca.

    Either way, the conference champ looks like the only team in the NCAA's (Unless Ithaca goes, say, 21 or 22-5 and loses in the conference tourney...but how likely is that?  ;) )

    Does the #1 seed host all three games? I thought the first round was played at the higher seed?


    Since only 4 teams make the playoffs, there's only 2 games. 1 plays 4, and 2 plays 3. The 2 winners of those games play for the championship. ;D

    I was thinking the two first round games and the championship. 2+1=3. I thought the higher seed hosted each game, but maybe not.

    sjfcards,
    When you said first round games that usually means more than the semis and finals, which is all you have with 4 teams. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Anyway, regarding the E8. All 4 teams play the 2 semi-finals and the final at the regular season champion. Last year, for instance, Fisher was the regular season champs. Naz played Ithaca and Stevens played Fisher. Both games were at Fisher on Feb 26th. The 2 winners, Fisher and Naz played the next night at Fisher. Naz won and got the automatic bid. Fisher got a Pool C bid.

    The year before the playoffs were held at Ithaca, who won the regular season championship. Naz beat Ithaca, and RIT beat Utica in the semis at Ithaca on Feb. 28th. The next night at Ithaca, RIT beat Naz in the final. RIT got the automatic bid and Ithaca got a Pool C bid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 31, 2011, 02:06:12 PM
    Thanks magicman. I hope the other 3 teams like Pittsford.  :o :D

    I wonder if there has ever been any thought about hosting the tournament at a neutral site like they do in DI. I know SUNYAC had a few conference tournaments in Utica at the Aud.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 31, 2011, 04:13:48 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 31, 2011, 02:06:12 PM
    Thanks magicman. I hope the other 3 teams like Pittsford.  :o :D

    I wonder if there has ever been any thought about hosting the tournament at a neutral site like they do in DI. I know SUNYAC had a few conference tournaments in Utica at the Aud.

    I like the home court idea. For one, it's a reward to the team who wins it. And, it usually means better attendance, since one fan base doesn't have to travel
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 31, 2011, 05:08:12 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 31, 2011, 04:13:48 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 31, 2011, 02:06:12 PM
    Thanks magicman. I hope the other 3 teams like Pittsford.  :o :D

    I wonder if there has ever been any thought about hosting the tournament at a neutral site like they do in DI. I know SUNYAC had a few conference tournaments in Utica at the Aud.

    I like the home court idea. For one, it's a reward to the team who wins it. And, it usually means better attendance, since one fan base doesn't have to travel

    I agree with Bombers, the home court reward is best. When the SUNYACs were at the Utica Auditorium, a good many times the place was empty as there were very few years when SUNYIT was in the tournamnet or went very far in the tournament. If you don't get the home town fans it's tough to fill the place. And winning the regular season should be worth more than just a top seed. Even in the NCAA's (especially DIII) the teams with the better records usually host a pod or a regional if they advance.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 02, 2011, 03:06:06 PM
    Fisher was able to keep pace with IC at the top of the conference with a 22 point win against AU last night. This weekend is huge for Fisher. Hartwick and Stevens on back to back nights, both at home. If Fisher can take two from the weekend they will have a big time inside track on a spot in the E8 tournament.

    I don't know what to make of Fisher, which is odd this late in the season. Since starting 1-5 they are 11-2, but sometimes they look like they just can not score. I think they are closer to the 11-2 team than the 1-5 team, especially with Noreen, but I am not comfortable with any game on the schedule.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2011, 03:14:00 PM
    First Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/02/ncaas-mens-regional-rankings/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 02, 2011, 08:49:00 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 02, 2011, 03:06:06 PM
    Fisher was able to keep pace with IC at the top of the conference with a 22 point win against AU last night. This weekend is huge for Fisher. Hartwick and Stevens on back to back nights, both at home. If Fisher can take two from the weekend they will have a big time inside track on a spot in the E8 tournament.

    I don't know what to make of Fisher, which is odd this late in the season. Since starting 1-5 they are 11-2, but sometimes they look like they just can not score. I think they are closer to the 11-2 team than the 1-5 team, especially with Noreen, but I am not comfortable with any game on the schedule.

    15 turnovers a game and 32% from three make it really tough to get the score up there consistently against quality defensive teams. You get fewer possessions and you don't get many 3-point possessions, and there you go. That being said, six of the E8's 9 teams are between 67 and 71 PPG, so it's not a major cause for concern IMO, unless you're trying to hang with Ithaca

    (I know, Fisher only lost by 6...but that was a little deceiving, as it was 17 with 3:14 left before Ithaca made it interesting in a way only the Bombers seem capable of doing)

    I think the E8 is just really tightly bunched in the middle this year. With the exception of Utica (with one game standing in the way) Elmira and Alfred, anyone seems capable of beating anyone.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 03, 2011, 03:02:01 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 02, 2011, 08:49:00 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 02, 2011, 03:06:06 PM
    Fisher was able to keep pace with IC at the top of the conference with a 22 point win against AU last night. This weekend is huge for Fisher. Hartwick and Stevens on back to back nights, both at home. If Fisher can take two from the weekend they will have a big time inside track on a spot in the E8 tournament.

    I don't know what to make of Fisher, which is odd this late in the season. Since starting 1-5 they are 11-2, but sometimes they look like they just can not score. I think they are closer to the 11-2 team than the 1-5 team, especially with Noreen, but I am not comfortable with any game on the schedule.

    15 turnovers a game and 32% from three make it really tough to get the score up there consistently against quality defensive teams. You get fewer possessions and you don't get many 3-point possessions, and there you go. That being said, six of the E8's 9 teams are between 67 and 71 PPG, so it's not a major cause for concern IMO, unless you're trying to hang with Ithaca

    (I know, Fisher only lost by 6...but that was a little deceiving, as it was 17 with 3:14 left before Ithaca made it interesting in a way only the Bombers seem capable of doing)

    I think the E8 is just really tightly bunched in the middle this year. With the exception of Utica (with one game standing in the way) Elmira and Alfred, anyone seems capable of beating anyone.




    I guess that begs the question; Was the league better/more entertaining/ appealing when there was one team way up and everyone else chasing them? I have trouble getting excited about a bunch of average teams fighting to see who gets to lose in the NCAA, but it does lead to more meaningful games and more teams with a shot. I don't know which is better.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on February 03, 2011, 06:59:12 PM
    Even when my beloved Bears were in the final four mix (5 times in the late 70's 80's), there were always tough games.  No picnic at Albany, Hartwick, Plattsburgh, Buff State even back in the day.

    Something to be said for parity

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 04, 2011, 01:34:00 PM
    Out of the loop for awhile, I know you guys missed me ;D, Well as far as I am concerned the Tigers next 3 games basically tells it all for us. Cards, Hawks and Ducks. If we win all 3 we should be locked in ??? If we lose all 3 we will be locked out :'(, We beat both Hartwick and Stevens already so a win against either helps in tie breaker situation. A Fisher win helps as well obviously as we would have a split with them, so that negates that part of the tie breaker. IF IN FACT A TIE BREAKER IS NEEDED> The loss to Utica reall hurt us.  I just don't see us in the picture UNLESS we awaken like last year, BUT not too late like last year. So we'll take it one at a time.   It seems we are better late in the year because we use so many players. The roster looks like about 19 or 20 players. IC and Stevens seem to pound there starters with minuites and look tired at the end of the year. Any thoughts on that theory.... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 04, 2011, 03:12:04 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 04, 2011, 01:34:00 PM
    Out of the loop for awhile, I know you guys missed me ;D, Well as far as I am concerned the Tigers next 3 games basically tells it all for us. Cards, Hawks and Ducks. If we win all 3 we should be locked in ??? If we lose all 3 we will be locked out :'(, We beat both Hartwick and Stevens already so a win against either helps in tie breaker situation. A Fisher win helps as well obviously as we would have a split with them, so that negates that part of the tie breaker. IF IN FACT A TIE BREAKER IS NEEDED> The loss to Utica reall hurt us.  I just don't see us in the picture UNLESS we awaken like last year, BUT not too late like last year. So we'll take it one at a time.   It seems we are better late in the year because we use so many players. The roster looks like about 19 or 20 players. IC and Stevens seem to pound there starters with minuites and look tired at the end of the year. Any thoughts on that theory.... ;)

    I watched the RIT/Naz game on Time Warner SPorts this week.  Let me correct that.....for much of the game the basketball was unwatchable and I surfed a little.  OK a lot.  I think I saw 8 people in the stands and there was no sense that this game meant anything to either team.  That being said, the last 4-5 minutes was very entertaining.  And as far as people in the stands, the first time my wife and I went there for a game we asked no fewer than 5 students where the gym was.  And none of them knew.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 05, 2011, 09:50:55 AM
    The Wick tops Fisher 68-64, rallying from a 16-point first half deficit.

    All of a sudden, Hartwick looks like they could sneak in and steal this thing...

    Seems like the conference will be decided that final weekend, as Ithaca closes at the Wick and Stevens. The Bombers-Hawks game figures to be another barn-burner.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 05, 2011, 02:36:07 PM
    And if you want to see something strange check out the box score of the Hartwick-Fisher game. Be sure and scroll down and check out the overtime period that ensued after the 68-64 score at the end of regulation. Also check out the mix of players that were in the game during the "overtime" period.

    I was looking at the statistics right below the box score that show the points in the paint, second chance points, fast break points and so on. I saw the largest lead for Fisher was 17 points at 3:14 of the 1st period and that was correct. I then saw that Hartwick's largest lead was 5 points at 4:48 of overtime. I was surprised because I didn't think the game went into overtime. Went to the play by play, end of the 2nd period which shows a 68-64 score and I'm wondering how they got to overtime. Sure enough there's an overtime period and a made foul shot 12 seconds into OT makes the score 69-64. Figure that one out. It's amazing how a box score from a men's game that ended in regulation, gets an overtime period that occured in the women's game added to it and then the players in overtime are a combination of the men's team and the women's team. Funny though, the score at the end of the bogus overtime was listed at 83-74. The actual score of the women's game that ended in overtime was 85-72. You'd of thought they could have at least got that right. :D


    Never Mind!!
    The box score has now been corrected. None of the above mistakes are now showing.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 05, 2011, 05:45:44 PM
    Stevens with a 64-48 win over host St. John Fisher. Ducks were up by 5 at the half, quickly go up by 10 after the break and maintain a comfortable margin throughout the 2nd half. The win puts Stevens in 3rd place by a half game over the Cardinals but more importantly the Ducks hold the tiebreaker over Fisher by virtue of their season sweep.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 05, 2011, 06:08:26 PM
    Just back from McLane Center where Alfred upsets Hartwick, 70-68.
    Utica a 94-89 winner at Ithaca....things getting interesting.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 05, 2011, 06:15:39 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 02, 2011, 08:49:00 PM

    I think the E8 is just really tightly bunched in the middle this year. With the exception of Utica (with one game standing in the way) Elmira and Alfred, anyone seems capable of beating anyone.

    Utica beats Ithaca....
    Alfred beats Hartwick....

    Elmira's turn....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 05, 2011, 10:50:10 PM
    Bombers give one away to Utica, 94-89. Bombers shoot just 13-of-22 from the line. Jordan Marcus hits six three points in a four minute stretch in one of the best shooting performances I've seen, but the Bombers were just sloppy.

    I'm sure the company line is that it's hard to beat a team that goes 8-of-15 from three, but Ithaca seems to be the only team that has any kind of trouble keeping Utica to a reasonable point total. Thankfully, Ithaca won't have to worry about them come conference tournament time.

    Stunner that the Wick lost to Alfred of all teams. Fisher's loss, while not stunning, makes things interesting. RIT can take sole possession of 4th place with a win over them at home.

    Really, anyone in the 1-5 spot is capable of missing the tournament right now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 06, 2011, 07:38:16 AM
    Bomber$%&.all that matters, DID THEY GET THE ASSISTS CORRECT IN THE HARTWICK FISHER GAME ;D......right now Stevens seems to be the team to beat, along with IC. ----Hartwick looks like they fell in to the proverbial trap after a big come back against Fisher .........That loss will hurt them when the final records are in....IC is either tired OR completely disinterested in playing D. Stevens defense and board work is outstanding... sprinkle in the surgence of Sheldon Jones, and Smith scoring big time..all of their conference games at home...........they could actually host the tourney this year. RIT, my boys, are being given a reprieve with some of these loses, now they just have to take advantage. They should be well rested and no excuses. Looks like IC-Stevens have an advantage, AS LONG AS IC STAYS AWAY FROM UC..... Fisher Hartwick RIT battle for the 3-4 spot........Stevens has Hartwick IC and RIT NAZ and Elmira I believe left at home... Ducks not exactly dominant at home.  Be careful of NAZ, ruining someones night before the season is over................
    It looks to me this years conference is down overall talent wise. IC looks good because of their many options on offense, but have to play both ends. That brings them back to the pack.....Stevens has remained the same over 4 of the last 5 years... Tough hard nosed ready to play every night. Throw out '08-'09 team.. They were pretty bad..  Hartwick is deeper than usual but needs to learn how to be consistant.  Fisher is in bad shape... No offense.  RIT has to overcome the lack of floor general, and play 40 minutes. But ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 06, 2011, 11:10:08 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 06, 2011, 07:38:16 AM
    IC is either tired OR completely disinterested in playing D.


    They just don't have particularly good defensive players. Christian Jordan is solid, but he picks up the fouls quickly.

    It's a team that's going to play 95-88 type games most nights. They won't win with their defense and if the shots aren't falling, well, there you have it. I don't think it's a recipe for success in the postseason because there's no margin for error. Even when they shoot the lights out, other teams are still right there.

    This last game is a great example. The first 9:30, Ithaca hits everything under the sun, and yet, it's only 31-23. And then the game settles down, and it's not like there's a massive deficit to climb out of.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 07, 2011, 08:38:58 AM
    Bomber798.... That sounds about right..... The opposite would be true with a team that plays good D.... They can have an off night offensively and still win. I really think this is one of the most down years the E-8 has had, at least in the last 5 years.  There were some big name players the last few years.... Not as many now, that can match up against some of those dominant players.  OH there are few good ones, but not as many. BUT I think the conference will came back soon........ ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 08, 2011, 07:09:14 AM
    I know I am missing something.... How does Fisher receive any votes in top 25??? OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES--Am I reading this wrong, OR did the area ref's vote ;D  I know I am either wrong as usual, or that's a mis-print... Makes no sense...BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 08, 2011, 08:04:27 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 08, 2011, 07:09:14 AM
    I know I am missing something.... How does Fisher receive any votes in top 25??? OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES--Am I reading this wrong, OR did the area ref's vote ;D  I know I am either wrong as usual, or that's a mis-print... Makes no sense...BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)

    Not that 2 votes mean all that much, but I agree.  I'd like to know the rationale for someone giving a 12-9 team a vote as one of the top 25 teams in the country
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on February 08, 2011, 08:11:15 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 08, 2011, 08:04:27 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 08, 2011, 07:09:14 AM
    I know I am missing something.... How does Fisher receive any votes in top 25??? OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES--Am I reading this wrong, OR did the area ref's vote ;D  I know I am either wrong as usual, or that's a mis-print... Makes no sense...BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)

    Not that 2 votes mean all that much, but I agree.  I'd like to know the rationale for someone giving a 12-9 team a vote as one of the top 25 teams in the country


    I go for the ref vote theory.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 08, 2011, 08:33:14 AM
    Quote from: Old Duck on February 08, 2011, 08:11:15 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 08, 2011, 08:04:27 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 08, 2011, 07:09:14 AM
    I know I am missing something.... How does Fisher receive any votes in top 25??? OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES--Am I reading this wrong, OR did the area ref's vote ;D  I know I am either wrong as usual, or that's a mis-print... Makes no sense...BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)

    Not that 2 votes mean all that much, but I agree.  I'd like to know the rationale for someone giving a 12-9 team a vote as one of the top 25 teams in the country


    I go for the ref vote theory.

    And to not have Ithaca ranked ahead of them despite a 15-5 record, and the H2H win
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2011, 10:58:49 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 08, 2011, 08:04:27 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 08, 2011, 07:09:14 AM
    I know I am missing something.... How does Fisher receive any votes in top 25??? OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES--Am I reading this wrong, OR did the area ref's vote ;D  I know I am either wrong as usual, or that's a mis-print... Makes no sense...BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)

    Not that 2 votes mean all that much, but I agree.  I'd like to know the rationale for someone giving a 12-9 team a vote as one of the top 25 teams in the country

    Could be someone meant to vote for St. Norbert and clicked the wrong button in the drop-down menu. I'll investigate and correct if need be.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 08, 2011, 11:52:06 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2011, 10:58:49 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 08, 2011, 08:04:27 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 08, 2011, 07:09:14 AM
    I know I am missing something.... How does Fisher receive any votes in top 25??? OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES--Am I reading this wrong, OR did the area ref's vote ;D  I know I am either wrong as usual, or that's a mis-print... Makes no sense...BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;)

    Not that 2 votes mean all that much, but I agree.  I'd like to know the rationale for someone giving a 12-9 team a vote as one of the top 25 teams in the country

    Could be someone meant to vote for St. Norbert and clicked the wrong button in the drop-down menu. I'll investigate and correct if need be.

    That would certainly make more sense. I'll bet that's the answer.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 08, 2011, 01:38:23 PM
    Looks like it's been corrected.. Sorry Cards fans........ I wonder if I would have been so quick to point that out if RIT got the vote...........

    hey OLD DUCK... I know why a Stevens guy would agree.. But really just at Fisher........... not too bad at RIT or Naz......... I think the small gym and the Fisher students intimidate some of the refs...  Now I am not really knocking the refs.... They are right more than I am, and someone has to do that thankless job...for the most part they do a great job........I always wondered, whenever a player or coach perceives a bad call they have a comment (most of the time for the ref...) What would it be like if the ref had a comment every time a player or a coach made a bad play.....Complete chaos.  I coach youth basketball and everyone is taught at an early age that when a call is made move on. No looks, no comments no antics. IF I PERCEIVE any of that, they can sit next to me for awhile... Believe  it or not it works...........  By the way OLD DUCK... Big game this weekend. Against my boys.... Tigers. You should handle NAZ.... Actually you should handle RIT. Up in the North land we had you guys big and a furious late comeback where you actually took the lead and then lost on a late 3... It seemed you guys slept for 35 minutes, then we fell asleep.  I think the Tigers have to somhow keep Simon off the boards... no one has yet.    Not let Jones go off...  Those are the two keys. Cutri could have a big game, but he has not been real consistant lately. Thompson is afair opoint guard. He doesn't take many chances, which seems to be a Hurly philosophy... play it safe.  RIT we need Korinchak to stop fouling, Heisg has to have another big effort, and of course Terry has to continue playing the way he is...It should be an interesting game. I know last year we came in and did a number on you guys late in the year. We took Cutri and Greco out of the game with a Mickey Mouse D ... That cut down your scoring and the ability to get it to Smith...  If we can Stop Smith and Cutri with some of the same we can make it a game...

    BIGGER GAME FOR TIGERS THAN DUCKS... ;)




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 08, 2011, 01:40:20 PM
    OH yea Fisher tonight.... if we can beat Fisher they are truly in trouble....if we lose we stay in trouble. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: E8Hoops04 on February 08, 2011, 05:32:36 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 05, 2011, 10:50:10 PM
    Bombers give one away to Utica, 94-89. Bombers shoot just 13-of-22 from the line. Jordan Marcus hits six three points in a four minute stretch in one of the best shooting performances I've seen, but the Bombers were just sloppy.

    I'm sure the company line is that it's hard to beat a team that goes 8-of-15 from three, but Ithaca seems to be the only team that has any kind of trouble keeping Utica to a reasonable point total. Thankfully, Ithaca won't have to worry about them come conference tournament time.

    Stunner that the Wick lost to Alfred of all teams. Fisher's loss, while not stunning, makes things interesting. RIT can take sole possession of 4th place with a win over them at home.

    Really, anyone in the 1-5 spot is capable of missing the tournament right now.


    You don't "give one away" when your opponent shoots over 57 percent from the field and doesn't miss a shot for the last 7 minutes plus of the game.

    That being said, while they certainly have a long climb ahead of them, don't count Utica out of it. Depending on which team shows up, they can beat anyone in the conference. If they continue their recent hot play they could end up with 9 or 10 wins in conference. That would certainly make for some interesting tie breakers. After head to head, it goes to Best record vs. subsequent finishers in descending order beginning with the 1st place team.


    It's a fun conference this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 08, 2011, 07:38:31 PM
    Quote from: E8Hoops04 on February 08, 2011, 05:32:36 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 05, 2011, 10:50:10 PM
    Bombers give one away to Utica, 94-89. Bombers shoot just 13-of-22 from the line. Jordan Marcus hits six three points in a four minute stretch in one of the best shooting performances I've seen, but the Bombers were just sloppy.




    You don't "give one away" when your opponent shoots over 57 percent from the field and doesn't miss a shot for the last 7 minutes plus of the game.


    Fair point. Utica shot well. Here's where I disagree

    1) The Bombers still went 13-of-22 from the line, which is awful.

    2) Part of the reason teams shoot so well against the Bombers is that they don't play good defense

    Seriously, it's not like teams scoring a ton of points on them is somehow a new thing. Ithaca ranks 330th in FG defense at 46%. Granted, 57% is high, but a team ranked 380th in scoring defense may want to look in the mirror when they're allowing high point totals regularly.

    Why can't Ithaca's defense force a team into bad shots?

    When Utica had the ball with less than a minute to go, who took their final shot? The guy who had gone 10-of-16 from the floor and 3-of-5 from three at that point. The guy shooting 46% from three point-range on the season, James Patterson.

    Now it's Ithaca's final possession, down by three. The need a 3-pointer, and have three guys on the team who are hitting at 42% or better. Who winds up taking it? None of those guys, but the player shooting 22% from three point range on the season who had gone 4-of-12 from the floor to that point, Sean Rossi. Now, I think Rossi's a great player, but is he really the guy you want taking that over Marcos, Oztemel or Rivas?



    When Utica needed a basket, the Bombers let them get the ball in the hands of their best shooter for a good look. When Ithaca needed it, the Pioneers forced a guy not particularly adept at shooting threes to do it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 08, 2011, 09:51:01 PM
    Hartwick handles Utica 85-79, dropping the Pioneers to 4-7 in conference play and sole possession of seventh place in the conference. There's now a three way tie at the top of the conference between Ithaca, the Wick and Stevens.

    Korinchak buries a three pointer with 1 second to go (give or take a few seconds, knowing the way the clock works at RIT ;) ) to give the Tigers the stunner over SJF 60-57. Amazingly, RIT is now 7-4 and in 4th place in the conference, as Fisher falls to 8-5.

    I'd be stunned if RIT holds off Fisher, as they still have road trips to all three 1st place teams in the conference not to mention the "They can beat anyone" Pioneers. But hey, they've already topped Stevens and the Wick once.

    Really tough loss for Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 08, 2011, 10:06:25 PM
    Elmira breaks into the win column with a 73-67 win over Alfred
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on February 08, 2011, 11:48:54 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 08, 2011, 09:51:01 PM
    Hartwick handles Utica 85-79, dropping the Pioneers to 4-7 in conference play and sole possession of seventh place in the conference. There's now a three way tie at the top of the conference between Ithaca, the Wick and Stevens.

    Korinchak buries a three pointer with 1 second to go (give or take a few seconds, knowing the way the clock works at RIT ;) ) to give the Tigers the stunner over SJF 60-57. Amazingly, RIT is now 7-4 and in 4th place in the conference, as Fisher falls to 8-5.

    I'd be stunned if RIT holds off Fisher, as they still have road trips to all three 1st place teams in the conference not to mention the "They can beat anyone" Pioneers. But hey, they've already topped Stevens and the Wick once.

    Really tough loss for Fisher.
    Bombers that quip about the clock at RIT may be the funniest thing I have read on the boards this year!! ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2011, 11:54:27 PM
    Ended up being St. Mary's.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 09, 2011, 01:11:45 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 05, 2011, 06:15:39 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 02, 2011, 08:49:00 PM

    I think the E8 is just really tightly bunched in the middle this year. With the exception of Utica (with one game standing in the way) Elmira and Alfred, anyone seems capable of beating anyone.

    Utica beats Ithaca....
    Alfred beats Hartwick....

    Elmira's turn....

    You were right. Elmira 73, Alfred 66.

    Seriously, though, Pep, didn't Alfred used to have good teams? Is it the curse of Murphy still looming over the program? I'm interested in your take on the situation there.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 09, 2011, 08:07:13 AM
    WOW a lot of good stuff today..FIRST FROAFAR is thrilled about the win over Fisher. (sorry PEP using your gig) Best part is Korinchak hits the winner, I have knocked this kid a bit and glad to see he comes up big in a big spot.... Big Turn around from first time we met.   As far as the clock at RIT I couldn't agree more...... I think the clock guy is the same guy that records assists at IC.........he demands a high price.   ;D Seriuosly you are so right about the clock, I have absolutely no defense.  Rossi taking the last shot is all on the coach.  I didn't see the play and while sometimes plays break down and they have to take whats given, and Rossi having the ball as a point guard, he may have had to take the shot.. I do not know.  BUT that being said IC has to deny the good shooters...Fisher is in trouble, I don't see a go to guy and they look like the DEER in the HEADLIGHTS right now. They are not used to this.
    Rit has to beat Stevens and Wick, beating both puts them in a great spot.. , they get the tie breaker on either one with a win.We cannot trip to the lower teams.

     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Hilltopper43 on February 10, 2011, 11:25:16 AM
    Video(s) of RIT's Buzzer Beater over St.John Fisher from Tuesday Night.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmgJe8TTHr4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RywfObY4hGQ

    http://www.13wham.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=2200355

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 10, 2011, 12:19:04 PM
    Hilltopper thanks for video, I actually saw the shot.... Great for RIT and great for Kid, and I don't mind celebrating but that "in your face -arm punching the air and fists tightened while yelling in the direction of some fans"" I don't know...I guess the reaction is not planned so I can let it go...  That shot can actually be the reason SJF does not make the tourney. It can also propell the Tigers a bit... We'll see this weekend. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on February 10, 2011, 03:22:40 PM
    FROMAFAR, I thought that the "area referee vote" was a good line. Overall the officiating is good. You expect that the home team will usually get some of the close calls going their way. For me it is more that Stevens seems to be playing on a neutral or away court when they are playing in Hoboken. As for you coaching philosophy I agree with you 100%.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2011, 05:18:55 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 10, 2011, 12:19:04 PM
    Hilltopper thanks for video, I actually saw the shot.... Great for RIT and great for Kid, and I don't mind celebrating but that "in your face -arm punching the air and fists tightened while yelling in the direction of some fans"" I don't know...I guess the reaction is not planned so I can let it go...  That shot can actually be the reason SJF does not make the tourney. It can also propell the Tigers a bit... We'll see this weekend. ;)

    Those who visited the front page of D3hoops.com yesterday saw it there as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on February 10, 2011, 10:23:07 PM
    Sweet shot!!!!   If it was played at Fisher though the refs probably would have waived it off and given the guy who set the pick  a "he took the charge before the shot foul".   :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on February 11, 2011, 08:04:04 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 31, 2011, 04:13:48 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 31, 2011, 02:06:12 PM
    Thanks magicman. I hope the other 3 teams like Pittsford.  :o :D

    I wonder if there has ever been any thought about hosting the tournament at a neutral site like they do in DI. I know SUNYAC had a few conference tournaments in Utica at the Aud.

    I like the home court idea. For one, it's a reward to the team who wins it. And, it usually means better attendance, since one fan base doesn't have to travel

    The ECWC Championships are scheduled for the Ben Light Gymnasium on Feb. 26, the same day as the  E8 final. I would think that this is an all day and into the night event. What happens if Ithaca gets the #1 seed? Would the date of the final be changed, would the tournament be held at a lower seeded (#2?) gym or would they play the first round at Ithaca and the final somewhere else?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on February 11, 2011, 09:33:32 AM
    Quote from: Old Duck on February 11, 2011, 08:04:04 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 31, 2011, 04:13:48 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 31, 2011, 02:06:12 PM
    Thanks magicman. I hope the other 3 teams like Pittsford.  :o :D

    I wonder if there has ever been any thought about hosting the tournament at a neutral site like they do in DI. I know SUNYAC had a few conference tournaments in Utica at the Aud.

    I like the home court idea. For one, it's a reward to the team who wins it. And, it usually means better attendance, since one fan base doesn't have to travel

    The ECWC Championships are scheduled for the Ben Light Gymnasium on Feb. 26, the same day as the  E8 final. I would think that this is an all day and into the night event. What happens if Ithaca gets the #1 seed? Would the date of the final be changed, would the tournament be held at a lower seeded (#2?) gym or would they play the first round at Ithaca and the final somewhere else?

    The womans tournament has the same issue.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Gray Fox on February 11, 2011, 10:11:13 AM
    Alfred University rang the opening bell on the NASDAQ stock exchange this morning.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 11, 2011, 10:23:23 AM
    Quote from: Old Duck on February 11, 2011, 09:33:32 AM
    Quote from: Old Duck on February 11, 2011, 08:04:04 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 31, 2011, 04:13:48 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 31, 2011, 02:06:12 PM
    Thanks magicman. I hope the other 3 teams like Pittsford.  :o :D

    I wonder if there has ever been any thought about hosting the tournament at a neutral site like they do in DI. I know SUNYAC had a few conference tournaments in Utica at the Aud.

    I like the home court idea. For one, it's a reward to the team who wins it. And, it usually means better attendance, since one fan base doesn't have to travel

    The ECWC Championships are scheduled for the Ben Light Gymnasium on Feb. 26, the same day as the  E8 final. I would think that this is an all day and into the night event. What happens if Ithaca gets the #1 seed? Would the date of the final be changed, would the tournament be held at a lower seeded (#2?) gym or would they play the first round at Ithaca and the final somewhere else?

    The womans tournament has the same issue.

    Yeah, the women are likely going to host, although only one of them hosting wouldn't be a big issue it seems. You could run the semis friday and have the final after the wrestling on Sat. Or a friday/sunday thing if you had to. Both hosting would be a bigger issue. The way it was done last time IC hosted both was a two-three-one thing from friday-sunday, but in order to do that they would have to do a chunk--if not all--of the wrestling in one of the side gyms. I don't know what that means for spectators though.

    My other guess might be to bump the wrestling to Sunday, and maybe move it up a couple hours so you could get it done by say, 7? Then you could have the title game at 8?

    It doesn't help that this men's thing probably won't be decided until the last minute, since Ithaca plays the Wick and Stevens on the 18th and 19th.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 11, 2011, 10:31:01 AM
    Big games in the E8 tonight.

    Ithaca travels to Fisher where a win would almost assuredly clinch a tournament bid (IC would be essentially four games up in the loss column with four conference games remaining)

    Meanwhile, RIT goes to the Wick with a chance to climb all the way into a tie for first place (depending on how IC and Stevens do)

    It's like a game of musical chairs right now. What's interesting is that Fisher's season ends before everyone else's so they'll likely be sitting at home that last weekend, rooting for some teams to go down

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 11, 2011, 01:12:19 PM
    Just saw the Korinchak buzzer beater and all I have to say is I would go play the lottery if I was him.  2 od his 13 career 3-pointers were hail mary buzzer beaters.  All I will say is that it seemed to take a looong time for the clock to turn from 4 to 3.  He got the shot off in time though, which is more than you can say about his first buzzer beater ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 11, 2011, 01:29:42 PM
    Bomber 3, I forgot about that other buzzer beater... I have absolutely no defense for the clock issue........you are correct.  This one I can't tell, but the odds are ..we were clock friendly..........While we have you back, since you played in the E-8 FAIRLY recently... What guard, in your opininion, played the toughest defense on you..Also give me the 3 troughest proto-typical point guards you played against. Just want to get a players view.... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 11, 2011, 01:37:23 PM
    Hey Old Duck, I look for Stevens to win big tonight. If I still have my coaching hat on, NAZ plays a lot of match up zone...That leaves the Bigs open if not played right. If your Guards can get it to Smith, Franklin, Sabatino and Jones down low, you should cruise.  Watch that will be open...not much their to defend either. As far as RIT (my boys) we are tough to prepare for since I don't even know are schemes.... So just play your game and hope we don't hit any late shots that mean something..... ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 11, 2011, 02:03:34 PM
    Taken from "A Guy Who Knows Things" vis-a-vie the hosting the E8 tournament:

    If Ithaca hosts *either* tournament, but not both, the whole format changes:
    #1 Ithaca hosts #4 in an early-afternoon game Friday.
    #2 hosts #3 in an early-afternoon game Friday.
    Highest seeded semifinal winner hosts other semifinal winner in an early-afternoon game.

    If Ithaca hosts wbb but not mbb (for example), the mbb tournament would still be a one-site, Friday-Saturday set-up.

    If Ithaca hosts *both* tournaments
    #1 Ithaca hosts #4 in a noon-ish wbb game Friday.
    #2 hosts #3 in a noon-ish wbb game Friday.
    #1 Ithaca hosts #4 in an early-afternoon mbb game Friday.
    #2 hosts #3 in an early-afternoon mbb game Friday.

    Highest-seeded semifinal winners host lower-seeded winners in each gender's final Sunday.
    If one school hosts both finals, it would be (approximately) a noon/2 p.m. doubleheader Sunday.


    Basically, the #2 seeds get an extra home game (you're welcome)

    Also, it wasn't stated, but strongly implied, that if Ithaca hosts just the men's side that Rossi gets double assists, and if they host both, he gets triple. Plus, Korinchak is contractually required to take at least one buzzer-beater from 40 feet away. A pre-game coin flip will determine if it's to occur before or after the clock actually expires ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on February 11, 2011, 04:41:38 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 11, 2011, 01:37:23 PM
    Hey Old Duck, I look for Stevens to win big tonight. If I still have my coaching hat on, NAZ plays a lot of match up zone...That leaves the Bigs open if not played right. If your Guards can get it to Smith, Franklin, Sabatino and Jones down low, you should cruise.  Watch that will be open...not much their to defend either. As far as RIT (my boys) we are tough to prepare for since I don't even know are schemes.... So just play your game and hope we don't hit any late shots that mean something..... ;) 

    You never know. Remember last year they controlled their own destiny and ended up losing 5 of the last six. 4 of those games, including Baruch in the ECAC, were rematches where Stevens won the last time the teams met. The 5th lose was to Ithaca who beat them by 2 points at Ithaca in the first game. Their offense is still pretty predictable. The big difference this year is that their defense is much better, they are rebounding exceptionally well and they are shooting foul shots fairly well, 72% even with Smith's 57%.  Those are the 3 things you need to do at the end of a game to give yourself the best chance to win.   I am a little nervous about your RIT team gaining momentum like they did last year. To me they were playing the best basketball in the league at the end of last year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 11, 2011, 06:49:13 PM
    FROMAFAR - I don't think you are asking the right player for this question.  I don't have an answer for you because, quite honestly, the other team's worst guard defender was guarding me (best defender was on Burton).  So I don't have a good answer from personal experience.  One thing I will say is McAdam, although he had a ton of steals, was a bad defender.  Gambled too much, got beat too often, and didn't lock down.  Burton was a much better on and off the ball defender and that doesn't get taken into consideration in the Burton/McAdam debate.

    Here is my opinion though on a few of the better ones:  Virgil Gray was long and athletic for Stevens and caused problems on defense. Fisher's guards also were normally very good defensively as a group and caused problems for us - very fundamentally sound on defense. I'm drawing blanks on the others right now...   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 11, 2011, 11:58:46 PM
    Tonight's results:

    Ithaca 85, St. John Fisher 71
    Utica 71, Alfred 69
    Hartwick 90, RIT 83
    Stevens 73, Nazareth 72

    The standings after tonight's games are:
    Ithaca 9-3
    Stevens 9-3
    Hartwick 9-3
    RIT 7-5
    St. John Fisher 8-6
    Nazareth 5-7
    Utica 5-7
    Alfred 3-10
    Elmira 1-12

    Ithaca beat Stevens and lost to Hartwick. IC travels to Hartwick and Stevens on the final weekend.
    Hartwick beat Stevens and the two teams play their final regular season matchup on Tuesday.
    St. John Fisher and RIT have split their season series.

    These are my picks for tomorrow's games:
    Fisher over Utica
    Ithaca over Alfred
    Hartwick over Nazareth
    Stevens over RIT
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 12, 2011, 09:26:25 AM
    Bomber3, didn't mean to put you on the spot, what you say makes sense though, except Gray wasn't really a guard... Passalaqua, Greco and Morris were the guards on those good Stevens teams,.....Passalaqua played no defense, most of his steals came away fromm the ball. Greco was tough and locked down many guards by playing 40 minutes of deefnse and gave no room, Morris played off his man, if his guy shot well he was in trouble, but denied penetration, I saw those guys often because of being in the City during the week. I will be at the RIT game later today. Your right about McAdam  he didn't want to foul, and rightfully so.  they needed him offensively......
    Buck I agree with all your picks today... Sorry to say since RIT needs the win badly...  Except Watch out for Utica..... they can actually get back in this by beating Fisher.... Where is that game.....there are 4 teams still alive for the last spot..............

    Bomber 798.... your the best..  love the Rossi Korinichak rules....................I heard IF IC does not host and Fisher makes it.... even 4th... they get to bring their own refs.....................Old Duck if Stevens hosts, they can eliminate all Jersey refs.... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 12, 2011, 10:57:45 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 12, 2011, 09:26:25 AM
    Bomber3, didn't mean to put you on the spot, what you say makes sense though, except Gray wasn't really a guard... Passalaqua, Greco and Morris were the guards on those good Stevens teams,.....Passalaqua played no defense, most of his steals came away fromm the ball. Greco was tough and locked down many guards by playing 40 minutes of deefnse and gave no room, Morris played off his man, if his guy shot well he was in trouble, but denied penetration, I saw those guys often because of being in the City during the week. I will be at the RIT game later today. Your right about McAdam  he didn't want to foul, and rightfully so.  they needed him offensively......
    Buck I agree with all your picks today... Sorry to say since RIT needs the win badly...  Except Watch out for Utica..... they can actually get back in this by beating Fisher.... Where is that game.....there are 4 teams still alive for the last spot..............

    Bomber 798.... your the best..  love the Rossi Korinichak rules....................I heard IF IC does not host and Fisher makes it.... even 4th... they get to bring their own refs.....................Old Duck if Stevens hosts, they can eliminate all Jersey refs.... ;)

    I didn't mind answering it just don't count my opinion as the truth since the best defender's efforts were used elsewhere.  Gray may have been a forward but he usually guarded the opposition's best guard, so far this argument's purposes I would think he would qualify.  And I did not answer your other question about the toughest point guards to play against.  Here are my thoughts team by team:

    Utica - Patterson was their PG but I was always matched against Herring.  Patterson was quick and a solid player but wasn't the player he is now.
    Hartwick - Blazek was their PG but I was matched against Coco.  Nothing jumped out at me about Blazek at the time, but they took the air out of the ball both times we played them and he has improved much since then.
    Naz - Obviously, Mcadam ran the show and was difficult to guard.  Very crafty and smart player that posed problems because of his size and abilities.
    Fisher - Newman was a tough point guard that was deceptively quick/fast.  Not great at one thing but very solid all-around
    Alfred - Kwienxxx... Decent PG but didn't have much around him
    Stevens - I don't think Greco played my final year and I can't remember who officially played the point for them. 
    RIT - Korinchek - Tough kid but we guarded him at the foul line so we could focus on other players on the offensive end.  Solid running the show but no outside shot made him easy to guard.  He was very good at basket cutting if his man slacked off though.

    Side note - big Bombers win last night.  The game didn't seem to ever be in doubt with an 18 point lead with 11 to go.  Bombers should go to 10-3 today with a game against Alfred, which would put IC in the driver's seat for another regular season E8 crown.  Odds are it will come down to the Stevens game next weekend (which I unfortunately will be out of town for and will have to miss  >:( )
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 12, 2011, 11:04:54 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 12, 2011, 10:57:45 AM

    Side note - big Bombers win last night.  The game didn't seem to ever be in doubt with an 18 point lead with 11 to go.  Bombers should go to 10-3 today with a game against Alfred, which would put IC in the driver's seat for another regular season E8 crown.  Odds are it will come down to the Stevens game next weekend (which I unfortunately will be out of town for and will have to miss  >:( )


    Well, I wouldn't go so so far as to say never in doubt...after the 18 point lead you mentioned, Fisher went on an 11-0 run over the next three minutes. It's good that the Bombers closed it out after that, but Fisher made it moderately interesting, albeit briefly
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 12, 2011, 06:42:51 PM
    Nazareth stuns the Wick, 90-76, Bombers eke one out against Alfred 85-81, Stevens takes care of RIT 76-64, Fisher tops Utica 71-62.

    Current standings

    Ithaca    10-3
    Stevens 10-3

    Wick        9-4
    Fisher      9-6
    RIT          7-6
    Nazareth 6-7

    Everyone else has been eliminated

    Ithaca and Stevens have clinched a spot. Both of them swept Fisher, and  own a four game lead on Naz with three to go, so they can't drop lower than 4th.

    Wick still has a game left against Elmira, so they're going to get to at least 10 wins. RIT has to go on the road and play two teams they've already lost to, so they'll probably pick up loss number seven somewhere, which would put the Wick in with the 10.

    As for that last spot? My gut tells me Fisher tops Nazareth for it, but who knows? I don't even want to think about the order. Fisher is probably the #4 team, but the top three could go anywhere
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 12, 2011, 07:35:59 PM
    Bomber3, thanks for taking the time to answer... good analysis on all. You were also pretty much on the button from a fans point of view.  The Stvens point your senior year was a guy named Baker... Played out of position, strong kid and tried hard to run the show, but that team under-achieved that year... Story was Greco worked at an intern-ship during the year, which eventually landed him a good job at graduation...He was able to play the following year once he locked the job up............  that's what I heard.  Hartwick loss gives RIT a small opening, similar to last year... Naz could have really been in good shape had they held on against Ducks.... 

    hey Old Duck...... Stevens only called for 9 fouls .. I was there... Some home cooking for a change.. Maybe ref's read my post about eliminating them if Ducks host...LOL
    I was there, I questioned some no calls, but overall, we weren't beating them anyway..... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on February 14, 2011, 05:29:06 PM
    There was a little home cooking. One of the few times that I have seen it at Stevens. There were a lot of no calls but not like Friday night against Naz, 19 fouls total in a physical game. Big games for everyone involved this week but as far as hosting the tournament I think it will come down to Saturday against Ithaca vs Stevens. I hope I can avoid another trip through Binghamton this year where I will have to branch off North, East or West.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 15, 2011, 04:04:17 PM
    Old Duck, the home court is in your hands...... A Hartwicks win by you guys puts you in the drivers seat as they and IC and Hartwick must exert all they have in their matchup. IC then has to put RIT away, which shouldn't be a problem, but they have to play to win, where the Ducks get a breather playing Elmira... sorry Elmira, just the way it is... They may be able to rest some people the night before IC game.  So the Hartwick-Ducks game is huge for all 3 teams. I have to say I am surprised by Stevens record this year... They lost a lot from last year..... Jones has made up for Greco's points, not his defense, but Higgans and Masone not big offensively but good defenders. However Smith has stepped it up and they still play good D. The league is obviously down this year... Fischer and Naz have fallen quite a bit....RIT underachieves once again...put that all together and you guys can steal this thing....As I have said for the last 5 years, IF RIT can't win it, I'm pulling for the Ducks.  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 15, 2011, 10:43:26 PM
    Bombers with arguably one of their best performances of the season, blowing RIT out of the gym 93-61. Ithaca hits 14 three pointers, dominates RIT on the boards, and so thoroughly frustrates the Tigers their coach spent 45 seconds yelling at an official after Korinchak fouled out. It was an out and out joke that he wasn't given a technical.

    Refs called 26 fouls in the second half.

    Marcus leads Ithaca with 21. Barera has 13 and 16. Oztemel has 13 and 12.

    RIT shot horridly, especially in the second half. Their coach can work the officials all he wants, but if you think you can beat Ithaca shooting 7-of-32 in the second half you have no one to blame but yourself.

    Stevens tops the Wick 72-57. Wick is eliminated from the conference title hunt. They have five losses, and either Ithaca or Stevens will get to 12.

    Considering that Stevens' second game is against Elmira, we're going to have a winner take all game on Sunday. Ithaca would win the conference if they win and both teams are 12-4 based on the H2H.

    Looking forward to Sunday!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on February 15, 2011, 11:28:00 PM
    The game is Saturday 4:00 PM. Should be exciting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 15, 2011, 11:31:48 PM
    Quote from: Old Duck on February 15, 2011, 11:28:00 PM
    The game is Saturday 4:00 PM. Should be exciting.

    K+ for the save! Good luck Saturday!
    Title: Stevens-Ithaca
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 15, 2011, 11:32:59 PM
    Just for fun, and to change up the poll
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 16, 2011, 07:40:16 AM
    Tigers have thrown in the towel, I am not surprised. Hey I give coach some credit for getting involved, with REF's-- someone had to show some interest. Be a little careful.. IC has Hartwick at Hartwick.... They have a lot of answers for a porous defense.. It should be a real shootout, and Hartwick has a reason to scratch until the end. IF Hartwick can pull it off, and IC beats Stevens, which I will get to in a bit...who gets the tie breaker???
    Here's my thoughts...  IC plays Friday night at Hartwick ... should be exhausting, Stevens has Elmira Friday night, should be a night of bench players spelling a rest for the starters with time left on the clock.... So Stevens should be rested, and they are home and they are on a roll......IF ALL THAT MATTERS, Ducks should win conference. But as we know in this league anything can happen.

    I am picking DUCKS to win the E-8..Hey OLD DUCK.and CYCLONE who I may say told me before the season "don't count out the Ducks" which I did...how can someone be wrong as much as me???? ;D BUT WHAT DO I KNOW ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 16, 2011, 08:22:59 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 16, 2011, 07:40:16 AM
    IF Hartwick can pull it off, and IC beats Stevens, which I will get to in a bit...who gets the tie breaker???


    Ithaca because both teams would be 12-4 in conference and the Bombers will have swept the season series. The Ithaca-Hartwick game is irrelevant. Ithaca could play whoever it wanted and rest the starters just like Stevens
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 16, 2011, 01:41:04 PM
    Bomber hold on  IF IC loses the "meanless" game to Hartwick, and then loses to Stevens, and Hartwick wins their last game and Stevens beats Elmira, wouldn't Hartwick be tied with IC? and if that's the case, Hartwick get the 2 seed over IC, based on head to head.  Yet I suppose finishing 2nd or 3 rd means nothing....so maybe you are right. If they lose to Hartwick and beat Stevens, the tie breaker is again head to head which IC would get. So once again you are correct.

    Now who do you think finishes first and why?

    Anyone can jump in on this....



    Who wins the tourney?


    I think whoever wins the game between Stevens and IC Saturday loses in the conference tourney rematch... if there is one? I don't think Fischer has a chance in a very week league after 1 and 2. NO HOME COOKING..I think Hartwick may be able to sneak in, and win the tourney but must play perfect basketball in Tourney. ;)


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 16, 2011, 02:24:43 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 16, 2011, 01:41:04 PM
    Bomber hold on  IF IC loses the "meanless" game to Hartwick, and then loses to Stevens, and Hartwick wins their last game and Stevens beats Elmira, wouldn't Hartwick be tied with IC? and if that's the case, Hartwick get the 2 seed over IC, based on head to head.  Yet I suppose finishing 2nd or 3 rd means nothing....so maybe you are right. If they lose to Hartwick and beat Stevens, the tie breaker is again head to head which IC would get. So once again you are correct.

    Now who do you think finishes first and why?

    Anyone can jump in on this....



    Who wins the tourney?


    I think whoever wins the game between Stevens and IC Saturday loses in the conference tourney rematch... if there is one? I don't think Fischer has a chance in a very week league after 1 and 2. NO HOME COOKING..I think Hartwick may be able to sneak in, and win the tourney but must play perfect basketball in Tourney. ;)




    It's tough to know. The thing with the first game is that Ithaca controlled play for the first 30 minutes, leading 62-46 with 10:35 left before going cold and letting Stevens back into the game. If you're going to beat Ithaca, you have to control the pace. Most teams (with the exception of Utica for some reason) can't hang with the Bombers into the 80's and beyond.

    As far as the 2-3 spots, they'll be very important. Ithaca can't host them, but I've heard that additionally, the E8 has a cost-cutting measure in place where, if in a four-team tournament with one host, if the host seed is far away, and the 2-3 seeds are "geographically compatible", instead of sending the team to the #1 seed, the #2 seed would host.

    So hypothetically, if Stevens is the #1 seed and IC/Wick are 2/3, rather than send those two teams to Hoboken, they would play in the #2's gym. This is still apparently something that needs to be confirmed by the powers that be, so take it with a grain of salt, but from how I understand it, in this scenario, regardless of who wins the conference, IC or Stevens, the #2 seed will host the #3 seed in the other semi.

    Obviously, a loss by Ithaca to the Wick could cost IC the #2 seed and home court in that matchup, but the Wick has already won at IC this year, so it's not clear it will be a huge advantage.

    I have heard however, that contrary to what I was told earlier, that games at Ithaca would in fact be at 6 p.m. and 8 p.m., not the noon/2 p.m. I was earlier told
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2011, 03:28:42 PM
    Week 3 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/16/ncaa-2011-regional-rankings-week-3/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 17, 2011, 02:30:56 PM
    Bomber 987%^&  I had no idea about the #2 possibly hosting it's opening game. Thanks for the INFO.... I truly believe the loser of the Stevens IC game Saturday wins the rematch,  if there is one. Especially if IC wins Saturday. I wish I could get to that game... about 1% chance, but you never know........ ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 17, 2011, 03:39:44 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 17, 2011, 02:30:56 PM
    Bomber 987%^&  I had no idea about the #2 possibly hosting it's opening game. Thanks for the INFO.... I truly believe the loser of the Stevens IC game Saturday wins the rematch,  if there is one. Especially if IC wins Saturday. I wish I could get to that game... about 1% chance, but you never know........ ;)

    It's going to be huge, since Stevens is currently #3 in the East and Ithaca is the #4. Seems odd to me, since (I think) Ithaca's got more wins over teams that are regionally ranked (3 to 1) and the H2H victory. But hey, maybe they know something I don't
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: 7express on February 18, 2011, 01:38:12 AM
    I agree with Fromafar, I think Stevens wins on Saturday, but Ithaca beats Stevens in the E8 tournament if they play each other.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on February 18, 2011, 12:06:08 PM
    For those who can't make it to Hoboken tomorrow, D3hoops is partnering with Stevens to broadcast both games.  We'll provide the audio for their video feed which is available here:

    http://stevens.nmtvsports.com/

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 18, 2011, 10:06:27 PM
    Bombers dominate Hartwick, 91-69. Five Bombers score in double figures, led by Barera with 17. Cruz-Rivas has 18 rebounds to go along with 11 points. Nine assists for Rossi.

    If Hartwick plans on winning a conference tournament game, they may want to rebound. Rivas is good, but he's not exactly an inside guy. Giving up 18 rebounds to a 6-3 guard? Come on. The Bombers had 54 points in the paint to the Wick's 24.

    Bombers clinch the #2 seed in the tournament, which means they may host a semi-final game if the E8's little cost-cutting plan goes into effect. Wick has now lost 4 of 6
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on February 19, 2011, 01:10:04 PM
    According to the Empire 8 website, the top seeds (plural) host semifinals.  And Stevens' game notes said they will host a semifinal next, which implies the top two host.  So both teams appear to have home games next Friday, regardless of today's outcome.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 19, 2011, 03:29:23 PM
    Bombers looking for their 3rd regular season title in 4 years today @ Stevens.  Go Bombers!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 19, 2011, 09:28:47 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 23, 2011, 10:53:51 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 22, 2011, 11:42:47 PM
    Crazy game at the Bulb as Ithaca misses a chance to put some distance between them and the rest of the conference. Five teams now sit with two losses in conference play. With Ithaca playing 6 of the 8 remaining games on the road, there's a very real chance they go something like say, 18-7 and don't even qualify for the conference tournament.

    Bombers, you don't really believe what you wrote about Ithaca, that there's a very real chance they may not qualify for the conference tournament? The worst they do in those final 8 games is 5-3(which will be good enough) but more likely 6-2 or 7-1. I still believe they're the best team in the league and not only will they qualify for the E8 tournament, they will host it. Now whether or not they win it, well that's another story. ;D

    Bombers,
    Do you feel a little better now about your Bombers than you did back on January 23rd. ;D  Congratulations, maybe they'll win that long sought after E8 title and win a few in the big tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombers798891x2 on February 19, 2011, 11:52:31 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 19, 2011, 09:28:47 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 23, 2011, 10:53:51 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 22, 2011, 11:42:47 PM
    Crazy game at the Bulb as Ithaca misses a chance to put some distance between them and the rest of the conference. Five teams now sit with two losses in conference play. With Ithaca playing 6 of the 8 remaining games on the road, there's a very real chance they go something like say, 18-7 and don't even qualify for the conference tournament.

    Bombers, you don't really believe what you wrote about Ithaca, that there's a very real chance they may not qualify for the conference tournament? The worst they do in those final 8 games is 5-3(which will be good enough) but more likely 6-2 or 7-1. I still believe they're the best team in the league and not only will they qualify for the E8 tournament, they will host it. Now whether or not they win it, well that's another story. ;D

    Bombers,
    Do you feel a little better now about your Bombers than you did back on January 23rd. ;D  Congratulations, maybe they'll win that long sought after E8 title and win a few in the big tournament.


    Ok. I forgot my old password, and had recently closed the e-mail account I had registered with, so forgive the new name, but as you can tell it's still me.

    Of course I feel better about the Bombers now than I did before. Know why? The team is actually playing better. Fancy that. They're actually playing some decent defense right now (Starting Grier over Oztemel helps with that immensely).

    Their last 10 days they have been firing on all cylinders. Beating the other three playoff teams on the road by 14, 22 and 22? Traveling all the way to Hoboken after playing on the road the night before and running Stevens out of their own gym? Sign me up.

    But, as much as bomber3 will hate me, now the slate is clean. Now they have to prove themselves capable of doing what the other teams before them were not. There's no reason they shouldn't win the conference tournament. They are better than St. John Fisher. They are better than Hartwick. They are better than Stevens. And more importantly, they are playing better than them right now, with the possible exception of Stevens.

    The Wick has lost 4 of 7 and looked awful in doing so. Fisher's recently lost 4 of 6, including to all three teams in the tourney. Stevens was looking great, but the Bombers just shredded them.

    Ithaca is 79-21 over their last four regular seasons, and 0-4 in the E8/NCAA Tourneys. Now is their chance to change that narrative. There's no reason for them not to win the conference tournament, qualify for the NCAA's, and win some there.

    Ithaca hosts St. John Fisher Friday at 8. They've handled them easily twice this season. They should win again

    Ithaca 88
    Fisher 74
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bombers798891x2 on February 20, 2011, 12:01:04 AM
    Here's a question: Fisher hasn't played since the 15th. How much rest is too much before it turns into rust? Will the Cardinals be affected?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 20, 2011, 05:27:35 AM
    Bombers,
    Let me be the first to give you plus K in your reincarnation. Maybe Pat can figure out a way to give you your identity back.  You were closing in on All American status, hate to see you all the way back at the beginning.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 20, 2011, 12:48:49 PM
    Quote from: bombers798891x2 on February 19, 2011, 11:52:31 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 19, 2011, 09:28:47 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 23, 2011, 10:53:51 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 22, 2011, 11:42:47 PM
    Crazy game at the Bulb as Ithaca misses a chance to put some distance between them and the rest of the conference. Five teams now sit with two losses in conference play. With Ithaca playing 6 of the 8 remaining games on the road, there's a very real chance they go something like say, 18-7 and don't even qualify for the conference tournament.

    Bombers, you don't really believe what you wrote about Ithaca, that there's a very real chance they may not qualify for the conference tournament? The worst they do in those final 8 games is 5-3(which will be good enough) but more likely 6-2 or 7-1. I still believe they're the best team in the league and not only will they qualify for the E8 tournament, they will host it. Now whether or not they win it, well that's another story. ;D

    Bombers,
    Do you feel a little better now about your Bombers than you did back on January 23rd. ;D  Congratulations, maybe they'll win that long sought after E8 title and win a few in the big tournament.


    Ok. I forgot my old password, and had recently closed the e-mail account I had registered with, so forgive the new name, but as you can tell it's still me.

    Of course I feel better about the Bombers now than I did before. Know why? The team is actually playing better. Fancy that. They're actually playing some decent defense right now (Starting Grier over Oztemel helps with that immensely).

    Their last 10 days they have been firing on all cylinders. Beating the other three playoff teams on the road by 14, 22 and 22? Traveling all the way to Hoboken after playing on the road the night before and running Stevens out of their own gym? Sign me up.

    But, as much as bomber3 will hate me, now the slate is clean. Now they have to prove themselves capable of doing what the other teams before them were not. There's no reason they shouldn't win the conference tournament. They are better than St. John Fisher. They are better than Hartwick. They are better than Stevens. And more importantly, they are playing better than them right now, with the possible exception of Stevens.

    The Wick has lost 4 of 7 and looked awful in doing so. Fisher's recently lost 4 of 6, including to all three teams in the tourney. Stevens was looking great, but the Bombers just shredded them.

    Ithaca is 79-21 over their last four regular seasons, and 0-4 in the E8/NCAA Tourneys. Now is their chance to change that narrative. There's no reason for them not to win the conference tournament, qualify for the NCAA's, and win some there.

    Ithaca hosts St. John Fisher Friday at 8. They've handled them easily twice this season. They should win again

    Ithaca 88
    Fisher 74
    Not true - I agree with your statement.  The slate is clean and its time to get it done.  IC was a big favorite to get it done in '09 but they ran into one of the all-time great E8 players in McAdam.  This year none of the other three opponents have a true stud and all the teams should play the same game plan as the regular season games (in the '09 Naz game, Naz played a completely different game plan in the playoffs).  This is another great opportunity for the Bombers to win the postseason tournament.  It would be a great way for the two players who have won more games in their careers than any other player in the history of the program  (Cruz and Barera) to close out their careers and put the past seasons playoff transgressions in the past.  

    Now, forget the E8 playoffs automatic bid for a second.  Ithaca played themselves in the tournament this weekend regardless of what happens next weekend.  So long as there aren't crazy upsets in the other conference tournaments to limit the at-large bids, 20 wins with their schedule should earn them a bid.  They are 3-1 against East region ranked teams and beat Franklin & Marshall on the road  (20-5 and ranked 7th in the Middle Atlantic region, 15th in the nation) in a game that wasn't really all that close.  IC should be making another NCAA appearance regardless.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2011, 01:31:17 PM
    Sure, that's fixable.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 20, 2011, 01:51:50 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2011, 01:31:17 PM
    Sure, that's fixable.

    Thaks, Pat. K+
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 20, 2011, 03:11:05 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 20, 2011, 01:51:50 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2011, 01:31:17 PM
    Sure, that's fixable.

    Thaks, Pat. K+

    Hey Bombers, you're back. See how easy that was. 8-)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 21, 2011, 12:38:47 PM
    Always fun to take a look at early season predictions to see who was right (early predictions in green):

    FROMAFAR's predictions:

    E-8 standings......................

    IC-----------Experience and talent
    RIT----------Experience
    Fisher------Coaching and reputation
    NAZ---------Always there
    Hartwick---Upcoming and good coach
    Alfred-------PEP says good recruits?
    Utica--------Unorganized.. needs new look
    Stevens----lost Heart and talent.. starting all over- hayne recruits gone.
    Elmira------Needs a lot of help...

    Overall - not very accurate!  Way off with the Stevens/RIT picks.  Elmira, Utica, and IC only spot on picks.

    Here are my predictions:


    Its only the top 2 that matter:
    1. Ithaca
    2. Fisher

    Bombers win the regular season title, win the E8 tournament, and win a game in the NCAA tournament.  Mark it down.  They have a tough schedule but nothing that prevents them from winning 20 games in my opinion.  I am predicting either a 6-3/7-2 non-conference record and 13-3 conference record.  20 regular season wins isn't out of the question.  

    I would say that is a spot on prediction.  So far they got the 13-3 regular season record, 20 wins, and the regular season crown.  3-3 so far with 2 predictions to come (E8 tournament and NCAAs).  

    2010 Empire 8 Men's Basketball Preseason Coaches Poll
    1     St. John Fisher College (5)
    2.      Ithaca College    (2)                                                
    3     Rochester Institute of Technology (1)          
    4.      Hartwick College                                          
    5     Nazareth College                                      
    6     Stevens Institute of Technology                  
    7     Alfred University                                            
    8.      Utica College                                                
    9.      Elmira College                    

    The coaches were way off with Stevens too.  RIT and Fisher were overrated but overall they were pretty accurate.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 21, 2011, 01:19:24 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 21, 2011, 12:38:47 PM
    Always fun to take a look at early season predictions to see who was right (early predictions in green):

    FROMAFAR's predictions:

    E-8 standings......................

    IC-----------Experience and talent
    RIT----------Experience
    Fisher------Coaching and reputation
    NAZ---------Always there
    Hartwick---Upcoming and good coach
    Alfred-------PEP says good recruits?
    Utica--------Unorganized.. needs new look
    Stevens----lost Heart and talent.. starting all over- hayne recruits gone.
    Elmira------Needs a lot of help...

    Overall - not very accurate!  Way off with the Stevens/RIT picks.  Elmira, Utica, and IC only spot on picks.

    Here are my predictions:


    Its only the top 2 that matter:
    1. Ithaca
    2. Fisher

    Bombers win the regular season title, win the E8 tournament, and win a game in the NCAA tournament.  Mark it down.  They have a tough schedule but nothing that prevents them from winning 20 games in my opinion.  I am predicting either a 6-3/7-2 non-conference record and 13-3 conference record.  20 regular season wins isn't out of the question.  

    I would say that is a spot on prediction.  So far they got the 13-3 regular season record, 20 wins, and the regular season crown.  3-3 so far with 2 predictions to come (E8 tournament and NCAAs).  

    2010 Empire 8 Men's Basketball Preseason Coaches Poll
    1     St. John Fisher College (5)
    2.      Ithaca College    (2)                                                
    3     Rochester Institute of Technology (1)          
    4.      Hartwick College                                          
    5     Nazareth College                                      
    6     Stevens Institute of Technology                  
    7     Alfred University                                            
    8.      Utica College                                                
    9.      Elmira College                    

    The coaches were way off with Stevens too.  RIT and Fisher were overrated but overall they were pretty accurate.




    Pretty easy to be more accurate when you only predict two of the nine spots huh? :)

    I will give you props for nailing the 20-5 down to the game.

    Sorry, but you agreeing with me made me feel all awkward. I like it much better when we disagree with essentially everything each other writes. Order in an otherwise chaotic world, you know?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on February 21, 2011, 01:28:02 PM
    I'll go with Ithaca to win the E-8 tourney. I hope Hartwick can right the ship and upset Stevens in NJ, but I don't think they will. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 21, 2011, 01:38:22 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 21, 2011, 01:19:24 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 21, 2011, 12:38:47 PM
    Always fun to take a look at early season predictions to see who was right (early predictions in green):

    FROMAFAR's predictions:

    E-8 standings......................

    IC-----------Experience and talent
    RIT----------Experience
    Fisher------Coaching and reputation
    NAZ---------Always there
    Hartwick---Upcoming and good coach
    Alfred-------PEP says good recruits?
    Utica--------Unorganized.. needs new look
    Stevens----lost Heart and talent.. starting all over- hayne recruits gone.
    Elmira------Needs a lot of help...

    Overall - not very accurate!  Way off with the Stevens/RIT picks.  Elmira, Utica, and IC only spot on picks.

    Here are my predictions:


    Its only the top 2 that matter:
    1. Ithaca
    2. Fisher

    Bombers win the regular season title, win the E8 tournament, and win a game in the NCAA tournament.  Mark it down.  They have a tough schedule but nothing that prevents them from winning 20 games in my opinion.  I am predicting either a 6-3/7-2 non-conference record and 13-3 conference record.  20 regular season wins isn't out of the question.  

    I would say that is a spot on prediction.  So far they got the 13-3 regular season record, 20 wins, and the regular season crown.  3-3 so far with 2 predictions to come (E8 tournament and NCAAs).  

    2010 Empire 8 Men's Basketball Preseason Coaches Poll
    1     St. John Fisher College (5)
    2.      Ithaca College    (2)                                                
    3     Rochester Institute of Technology (1)          
    4.      Hartwick College                                          
    5     Nazareth College                                      
    6     Stevens Institute of Technology                  
    7     Alfred University                                            
    8.      Utica College                                                
    9.      Elmira College                    

    The coaches were way off with Stevens too.  RIT and Fisher were overrated but overall they were pretty accurate.




    Pretty easy to be more accurate when you only predict two of the nine spots huh? :)

    I will give you props for nailing the 20-5 down to the game.

    Sorry, but you agreeing with me made me feel all awkward. I like it much better when we disagree with essentially everything each other writes. Order in an otherwise chaotic world, you know?

    Yes it was pretty easy predicting only 2 spots - I thought I did the whole conference but I guess not.  And lets not get ahead of ourselves -- I won't say we're in agreement until I see your comments after this weekend... 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 21, 2011, 03:25:59 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 21, 2011, 01:38:22 PM

    Yes it was pretty easy predicting only 2 spots - I thought I did the whole conference but I guess not.  And lets not get ahead of ourselves -- I won't say we're in agreement until I see your comments after this weekend... 

    Well, I'll lay it all out for you now. IMO, the Bombers are the best team in the conference. These last two weeks have shown that they have the most talent, and that, when on, the others in the conference aren't terribly close to them. They should win the E8 Tournament, and I predict they do. I will leave the NCAA's out, since that can depend on matchups, home court etc. But I will play the part of the arrogant IC fan:

    Bombers by 14 over Fisher in the semis. And Bombers by 10 over Stevens in the final. This team has a shot to go down as the 2nd-greatest IC team ever.

    But, now the flip side: If this team has a repeat of 08-09, I will call them out again. This year--to this point at least--is really no different than any of the last three. Failing to win the conference tournament and/or an NCAA game can, again, IMO, constitute nothing more than a disappointment, and a sign that the program still can't win when it truly matters. Unfortunately, it would be a sign that the program hasn't really taken a step forward from the 2007-2008 season.

    While the regular season is different than the postseason, it sets the bar for expectations. You laid them out in the preseason, and I, who took longer to get on board, have the same ones now. Let's see what they do.

    Also, since I've laid out my before-the-fact criticisms if there is a loss, feel free to get a jump on your defenses of my criticisms: "It was still a great season," "It's hard to beat a team three times in one season," "Live by the three, die by the three." Have I missed any? ;)

    I'd ask if you were going to the games and invite you to stop by, but I worry a fight would break out, and well, you'd probably win.

    By the by, Phil Barera has a shot at 1,000 points if the Bombers don't screw this up--or maybe even if they do. At 949, it will take three games to get there at his current pace, but two might be enough. Fingers crossed for ya, Phil.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 22, 2011, 08:11:01 AM
    Bombers - Understood, we'll see what happens this weekend.  And I appreciate the invite but I won't be able to make it so IC better have a webcast up.  And don't worry I don't take boards personally so there is no ill-will!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 22, 2011, 08:32:29 AM
    Agreed my predictions pretty bad, but I did have IC on top, I had Fisher in the playoffs...  big deal, and I did say you could flip flop Wick and Naz..... IC undressed the Ducks... Looked like the game plan was to let Rossi shoot.........stop others... that didn't work..... Ducks need a floor general.....

    A new day and new predictions...
    IC over Fisher
    Wick over Ducks
    IC finally gets it done.....

    Ducks  could win a couple in ECAC........ Wick may get ECAC bid... I don't think Fisher does. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 22, 2011, 09:54:04 AM
    Stevens was predicted to get an at large bid on the D3hoops link on its main page.  This doesn't factor in upsets I don't think so they need to make the championship game to have a shot one would think. So don't go sending them to ECACs just yet..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 22, 2011, 10:31:32 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 22, 2011, 09:54:04 AM
    Stevens was predicted to get an at large bid on the D3hoops link on its main page.  This doesn't factor in upsets I don't think so they need to make the championship game to have a shot one would think. So don't go sending them to ECACs just yet..

    I agree. But this guy has the Ducks as one of his last four in, so if this projection is just taking the top seeded teams to win it all, the Ducks are in trouble

    Where Stevens would almost certainly be done if they and Ithaca both lose in the first round. Not saying it will happen, but if it does, forget about getting in ahead of the Bombers or the E8 getting three bids.

    But this makes me feel better about IC's chances of getting in even if they screw it up in the tournament.

    But even losing in the final...I mean, does beating a 15-10 Hartwick really improve your resume that much? Dicey.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 22, 2011, 12:36:14 PM
    Hey guys, Stevens needs to win the e-8 to get in...AS I BELIEVE IC very may well have to win to get in too.  The E 8, I BELIEVE, and what do I know, is down this year talent wise... What Big wins does Stevens have outside the conference. The conference gets little if any play in top 25 which is correct. Let's face it boys, this years teams are a cut below the last few years. HOWEVER IC is the type of team that can scald anyone when they are clicking on all cylinders so I hope they go to the tourney because they may win a couple....  I think wick will surprised the Ducks, and it will be a shootout at IC for the Marbles..... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 22, 2011, 02:29:37 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 22, 2011, 12:36:14 PM
    Hey guys, Stevens needs to win the e-8 to get in...AS I BELIEVE IC very may well have to win to get in too.  The E 8, I BELIEVE, and what do I know, is down this year talent wise... What Big wins does Stevens have outside the conference. The conference gets little if any play in top 25 which is correct. Let's face it boys, this years teams are a cut below the last few years. HOWEVER IC is the type of team that can scald anyone when they are clicking on all cylinders so I hope they go to the tourney because they may win a couple....  I think wick will surprised the Ducks, and it will be a shootout at IC for the Marbles..... ;)

    I think the Bombers are ok to be honest. Part of it is that Stevens is good and the Bombers beat them twice

    Stevens has beaten Kean, 2nd in the Atlantic region. RPI isn't regionally ranked, but is pretty good as well. Their bigger problem is not having beaten IC, so they lack, IMO a single "good" in conference win. IC has two
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 22, 2011, 03:13:24 PM
    http://www.theithacajournal.com/article/20110221/SPORTS03/102210334/1128/Ithaca-College-aims-end-postseason-hex?odyssey=nav|head

    Fantastic piece by Brian Delaney on IC's playoff struggles
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 23, 2011, 03:53:57 PM
    Final Regional Rankings are out before Selection Sunday: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on February 24, 2011, 07:03:15 AM
    Oh yee gentlemen (and ladies too) with sharper minds then I - why would Ithaca "leapfrog" Rochester in the ratings?  Rochester did not lose?  Was the victory over Stevens on the road enough to justify the leap over a team that did not do anything to damage itself other than to get a bid? Inquiring minds want to know. :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2011, 08:36:34 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 24, 2011, 07:03:15 AM
    Oh yee gentlemen (and ladies too) with sharper minds then I - why would Ithaca "leapfrog" Rochester in the ratings?  Rochester did not lose?  Was the victory over Stevens on the road enough to justify the leap over a team that did not do anything to damage itself other than to get a bid? Inquiring minds want to know. :D

    My guess is it had something to do with OOOOOOOOOOOOOOWP.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 10:53:17 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 24, 2011, 07:03:15 AM
    Oh yee gentlemen (and ladies too) with sharper minds then I - why would Ithaca "leapfrog" Rochester in the ratings?  Rochester did not lose?  Was the victory over Stevens on the road enough to justify the leap over a team that did not do anything to damage itself other than to get a bid? Inquiring minds want to know. :D

    1) As far as I can see, Rochester's got three wins over regionally ranked teams: Two over Brandeis (#10 in the NE) and Emory (#8 in the South).

    2) Ithaca's got: Two wins over Stevens (#4 in the East), and wins over Hobart (#5 East) and Franklin & Marshall (#7 in the Middle Atlantic)

    So that's 4 wins to 3 for Ithaca.

    3) Then let's look at common opponents: Rochester has losses to Hobart and Nazareth, teams Ithaca went 3-0 against.

    4) I would suspect the Bombers had a better SOS, because in addition to the regional wins they also had OOC games in region to teams like Penn-State Behrend (22-3) and Oswego (22-3)--albeit losses. Those teams are also ranked  (#3 Great Lakes, #1 East)

    More wins over regionally ranked opponents, better record against common opponents, tougher schedule (again, just taking a glance at schedules, it seems like IC would get the nod there). Even though the regional records is worse, seems like Ithaca's got a better overall body of work than Rochester
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2011, 11:15:10 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 10:53:17 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 24, 2011, 07:03:15 AM
    Oh yee gentlemen (and ladies too) with sharper minds then I - why would Ithaca "leapfrog" Rochester in the ratings?  Rochester did not lose?  Was the victory over Stevens on the road enough to justify the leap over a team that did not do anything to damage itself other than to get a bid? Inquiring minds want to know. :D

    1) As far as I can see, Rochester's got three wins over regionally ranked teams: Two over Brandeis (#10 in the NE) and Emory (#8 in the South).

    2) Ithaca's got: Two wins over Stevens (#4 in the East), and wins over Hobart (#5 East) and Franklin & Marshall (#7 in the Middle Atlantic)

    So that's 4 wins to 3 for Ithaca.

    3) Then let's look at common opponents: Rochester has losses to Hobart and Nazareth, teams Ithaca went 3-0 against.

    4) I would suspect the Bombers had a better SOS, because in addition to the regional wins they also had OOC games in region to teams like Penn-State Behrend (22-3) and Oswego (22-3)--albeit losses. Those teams are also ranked  (#3 Great Lakes, #1 East)

    More wins over regionally ranked opponents, better record against common opponents, tougher schedule (again, just taking a glance at schedules, it seems like IC would get the nod there). Even though the regional records is worse, seems like Ithaca's got a better overall body of work than Rochester

    UR also has wins against Hobart and Naz
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 12:18:14 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2011, 11:15:10 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 10:53:17 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 24, 2011, 07:03:15 AM
    Oh yee gentlemen (and ladies too) with sharper minds then I - why would Ithaca "leapfrog" Rochester in the ratings?  Rochester did not lose?  Was the victory over Stevens on the road enough to justify the leap over a team that did not do anything to damage itself other than to get a bid? Inquiring minds want to know. :D

    1) As far as I can see, Rochester's got three wins over regionally ranked teams: Two over Brandeis (#10 in the NE) and Emory (#8 in the South).

    2) Ithaca's got: Two wins over Stevens (#4 in the East), and wins over Hobart (#5 East) and Franklin & Marshall (#7 in the Middle Atlantic)

    So that's 4 wins to 3 for Ithaca.

    3) Then let's look at common opponents: Rochester has losses to Hobart and Nazareth, teams Ithaca went 3-0 against.

    4) I would suspect the Bombers had a better SOS, because in addition to the regional wins they also had OOC games in region to teams like Penn-State Behrend (22-3) and Oswego (22-3)--albeit losses. Those teams are also ranked  (#3 Great Lakes, #1 East)

    More wins over regionally ranked opponents, better record against common opponents, tougher schedule (again, just taking a glance at schedules, it seems like IC would get the nod there). Even though the regional records is worse, seems like Ithaca's got a better overall body of work than Rochester

    UR also has wins against Hobart and Naz

    Yes, but since Ithaca does as well--and doesn't have the losses, those wins don't help them prove they're better than the Bombers.

    Rochester went 6-2 in games against Hobart, St. Lawrence, Nazareth, RIT, Fisher and Elmira. Ithaca went 10-0 in games against those same teams. Advantage Bombers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2011, 12:35:00 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 12:18:14 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2011, 11:15:10 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 10:53:17 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 24, 2011, 07:03:15 AM
    Oh yee gentlemen (and ladies too) with sharper minds then I - why would Ithaca "leapfrog" Rochester in the ratings?  Rochester did not lose?  Was the victory over Stevens on the road enough to justify the leap over a team that did not do anything to damage itself other than to get a bid? Inquiring minds want to know. :D

    1) As far as I can see, Rochester's got three wins over regionally ranked teams: Two over Brandeis (#10 in the NE) and Emory (#8 in the South).

    2) Ithaca's got: Two wins over Stevens (#4 in the East), and wins over Hobart (#5 East) and Franklin & Marshall (#7 in the Middle Atlantic)

    So that's 4 wins to 3 for Ithaca.

    3) Then let's look at common opponents: Rochester has losses to Hobart and Nazareth, teams Ithaca went 3-0 against.

    4) I would suspect the Bombers had a better SOS, because in addition to the regional wins they also had OOC games in region to teams like Penn-State Behrend (22-3) and Oswego (22-3)--albeit losses. Those teams are also ranked  (#3 Great Lakes, #1 East)

    More wins over regionally ranked opponents, better record against common opponents, tougher schedule (again, just taking a glance at schedules, it seems like IC would get the nod there). Even though the regional records is worse, seems like Ithaca's got a better overall body of work than Rochester

    UR also has wins against Hobart and Naz

    Yes, but since Ithaca does as well--and doesn't have the losses, those wins don't help them prove they're better than the Bombers.

    Rochester went 6-2 in games against Hobart, St. Lawrence, Nazareth, RIT, Fisher and Elmira. Ithaca went 10-0 in games against those same teams. Advantage Bombers.

    Just pointing out that UR is 4-1 against regionally ranked opponents with 1 left to play in Atlanta Saturday. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 01:12:48 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2011, 12:35:00 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 12:18:14 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2011, 11:15:10 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 10:53:17 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 24, 2011, 07:03:15 AM
    Oh yee gentlemen (and ladies too) with sharper minds then I - why would Ithaca "leapfrog" Rochester in the ratings?  Rochester did not lose?  Was the victory over Stevens on the road enough to justify the leap over a team that did not do anything to damage itself other than to get a bid? Inquiring minds want to know. :D

    1) As far as I can see, Rochester's got three wins over regionally ranked teams: Two over Brandeis (#10 in the NE) and Emory (#8 in the South).

    2) Ithaca's got: Two wins over Stevens (#4 in the East), and wins over Hobart (#5 East) and Franklin & Marshall (#7 in the Middle Atlantic)

    So that's 4 wins to 3 for Ithaca.

    3) Then let's look at common opponents: Rochester has losses to Hobart and Nazareth, teams Ithaca went 3-0 against.

    4) I would suspect the Bombers had a better SOS, because in addition to the regional wins they also had OOC games in region to teams like Penn-State Behrend (22-3) and Oswego (22-3)--albeit losses. Those teams are also ranked  (#3 Great Lakes, #1 East)

    More wins over regionally ranked opponents, better record against common opponents, tougher schedule (again, just taking a glance at schedules, it seems like IC would get the nod there). Even though the regional records is worse, seems like Ithaca's got a better overall body of work than Rochester

    UR also has wins against Hobart and Naz

    Yes, but since Ithaca does as well--and doesn't have the losses, those wins don't help them prove they're better than the Bombers.

    Rochester went 6-2 in games against Hobart, St. Lawrence, Nazareth, RIT, Fisher and Elmira. Ithaca went 10-0 in games against those same teams. Advantage Bombers.

    Just pointing out that UR is 4-1 against regionally ranked opponents with 1 left to play in Atlanta Saturday. 

    Fair point. I just think the Bombers have an advantage. Likewise, they may face another regionally ranked team in the conference tournament.

    Here's what's interesting to me though: Say Rochester beats Emory again. Does Emory stay regionally ranked? They're currently in the last spot in the South Region. Is it possible they get bumped off the list with that loss? I don't think that's likely to happen to the RR teams IC has beaten. I can't imagine Stevens and Hobart doing any worse than Buffalo State in the conference tournament, and even then, a second team would have to jump them. As for F&M, they may be a risk to drop, but three spots to un-ranked? IDK

    If Emory were to fall off, and Stevens, F&M and Hobart stay on, then Rochester would be 3-1 against regionally ranked teams, Ithaca would be, what 5-2? So a slight advantage to Rochester there, but enough to overcome a worse record against common opponents and a worse overall SOS? Close one.

    Obviously, I'm biased, and can't claim to know how the regional people do things. But that's part of the fun. Debates and what if's make it interesting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2011, 01:25:15 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 01:12:48 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2011, 12:35:00 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 12:18:14 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2011, 11:15:10 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 10:53:17 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 24, 2011, 07:03:15 AM
    Oh yee gentlemen (and ladies too) with sharper minds then I - why would Ithaca "leapfrog" Rochester in the ratings?  Rochester did not lose?  Was the victory over Stevens on the road enough to justify the leap over a team that did not do anything to damage itself other than to get a bid? Inquiring minds want to know. :D

    1) As far as I can see, Rochester's got three wins over regionally ranked teams: Two over Brandeis (#10 in the NE) and Emory (#8 in the South).

    2) Ithaca's got: Two wins over Stevens (#4 in the East), and wins over Hobart (#5 East) and Franklin & Marshall (#7 in the Middle Atlantic)

    So that's 4 wins to 3 for Ithaca.

    3) Then let's look at common opponents: Rochester has losses to Hobart and Nazareth, teams Ithaca went 3-0 against.

    4) I would suspect the Bombers had a better SOS, because in addition to the regional wins they also had OOC games in region to teams like Penn-State Behrend (22-3) and Oswego (22-3)--albeit losses. Those teams are also ranked  (#3 Great Lakes, #1 East)

    More wins over regionally ranked opponents, better record against common opponents, tougher schedule (again, just taking a glance at schedules, it seems like IC would get the nod there). Even though the regional records is worse, seems like Ithaca's got a better overall body of work than Rochester

    UR also has wins against Hobart and Naz

    Yes, but since Ithaca does as well--and doesn't have the losses, those wins don't help them prove they're better than the Bombers.

    Rochester went 6-2 in games against Hobart, St. Lawrence, Nazareth, RIT, Fisher and Elmira. Ithaca went 10-0 in games against those same teams. Advantage Bombers.

    Just pointing out that UR is 4-1 against regionally ranked opponents with 1 left to play in Atlanta Saturday. 

    Fair point. I just think the Bombers have an advantage. Likewise, they may face another regionally ranked team in the conference tournament.

    Here's what's interesting to me though: Say Rochester beats Emory again. Does Emory stay regionally ranked? They're currently in the last spot in the South Region. Is it possible they get bumped off the list with that loss? I don't think that's likely to happen to the RR teams IC has beaten. I can't imagine Stevens and Hobart doing any worse than Buffalo State in the conference tournament, and even then, a second team would have to jump them. As for F&M, they may be a risk to drop, but three spots to un-ranked? IDK

    If Emory were to fall off, and Stevens, F&M and Hobart stay on, then Rochester would be 3-1 against regionally ranked teams, Ithaca would be, what 5-2? So a slight advantage to Rochester there, but enough to overcome a worse record against common opponents and a worse overall SOS? Close one.

    Obviously, I'm biased, and can't claim to know how the regional people do things. But that's part of the fun. Debates and what if's make it interesting.


    All things considered, I still don't know how you cobb together a "regional" ranking playing games in Chicago, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Boston, NYC and Atlanta.  Though it probably takes less travel time for UR to get to Atlanta than for Ithaca to get to Alfred
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 02:22:53 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2011, 01:25:15 PM

    All things considered, I still don't know how you cobb together a "regional" ranking playing games in Chicago, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Boston, NYC and Atlanta.  Though it probably takes less travel time for UR to get to Atlanta than for Ithaca to get to Alfred

    Yeah, makes no sense to me either. I guess we just go with what we have.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on February 24, 2011, 05:44:29 PM
    UAA Always gets the advantages, comes from Money & Power.  Same for NESCAC.  A player who gets into and graduates from one of those schools is set for life...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 24, 2011, 07:28:48 PM
    Quote from: thebear on February 24, 2011, 05:44:29 PM
    UAA Always gets the advantages, comes from Money & Power.  Same for NESCAC.  A player who gets into and graduates from one of those schools is set for life...


    Well...let's hope so
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on February 24, 2011, 10:15:00 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 01:12:48 PM
    I can't imagine Stevens and Hobart doing any worse than Buffalo State in the conference tournament,

    I can!! ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 25, 2011, 08:08:43 AM
    Big day for the Bombers as they face Fisher tonight in the E8 semifinals.  That's all I'm saying - don't want to jinx anything :)

    Go Bombers!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 25, 2011, 09:16:18 AM
    No mention of all conference?  Barera named POY, Suderley from Hartwick ROY, and Bobby Hurley from Stevens COY. 

    First team:
    Rossi - IC
    Barera - IC
    Patterson - UC
    Ryder - Hartwick
    Smith - Stevens

    Jordan Marcus and Chris Cruz-Rivas second team for the Bombers. 

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 25, 2011, 10:02:36 AM
    Word to the wise: The weather/roads in Ithaca are absolutely BRUTAL. The college has apparently started "monitoring" the weather in regards to closing. What this means for the games tonight, idk, but if the weather gets much worse...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 25, 2011, 11:26:31 AM
    Not to be the weather guy, or cost IC money, but from the looks of things, you may want to seriously consider staying home. According to the most recent report we're supposed to get 6-12 inches of heavy, wet snow through at earliest 5 p.m tonight, and who knows if they'll even bother plowing until after it all stops. Winds are supposed to be 15-30 mph. Really bad for traveling

    If you do make the trek, please friends, be careful.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 25, 2011, 01:26:19 PM
    I don't have much to say... under the weather.  I pick IC by about 12, and Wick by 8.........BUT  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 25, 2011, 08:57:17 PM
    Stevens up on Hartwick at the half 40-33.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 25, 2011, 09:28:03 PM
    damn.   ???
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 25, 2011, 09:44:48 PM
    Crunch time at Stevens. 16 seconds left Stevens with the ball and a time out. Hartwick leading 74-73. Stevens comes down and attempts a 3 by Sheldon Jones but it's no good and goes out of bounds off Stevens. Hartwick inbounds and is quickly fouled. Mark Blazek goes to the line and hits them both.  76-73 Hawks lead. Hartwick fouls Mike Cutri before he can get off a 3 and he goes to the line. he misses the 1st and Stevens takes a time out. Cutri deliberately misses the 2nd gets the rebound and calls time out. Stevens inbounds and attempts a game tying 3 by Kevin McManamy but it 's not close. Game over, Hawks win.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 25, 2011, 09:46:33 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 25, 2011, 09:28:03 PM
    damn.   ???

    I'm sure you're expecting me to pile on, but what's the point? The results, as usual, speak for themselves. They'll have a chance to redeem themselves in the NCAA's, but it's hard to be optimistic at this point. They just don't seem to have what it takes to play well when it matters. I feel for Barera and Rivas, as they've been here for all four years of it. They deserve better, but it just doesn't seem to be in the cards.

    Maybe they'll prove me wrong in the NCAA's, but I think another one-and-done is likely
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 25, 2011, 10:18:59 PM
    East Region Results:

    1. Oswego- Loss, 70-74
    2. Ithaca-    Loss, 78-88
    3. Rochester- TBD
    4. Stevens- Loss, 73-76
    5. Hobart- Loss, 62-60
    6. Buffalo State- Win 87-79

    Ye gods.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 25, 2011, 10:36:38 PM
    The East region Pool C bids have just been determined. Oswego will get the first one and if there is a 2nd one bestowed upon our region it will go to the Bombers. Ithaca may be on the bubble though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 25, 2011, 11:20:39 PM
    Hey guys. I know I have not been on here in a while, and I really don't want to be that guy that jumps back on the boards after their team wins a big game, but I just got back from the Fisher/IC game and wanted to give my two cents.

    Fisher looked like a team that could back into an E8 title if they can play like that against Hartwick. They ran their sets with the ball, stuck to the gameplan on D, and really looked sharp. Tough to beat any team when they play that well.

    IC looks like a NCAA team to me. They have some real talent, and I was never comfortable with the lead Fisher had until about 1:30 left. IC can shoot, and Rossi really makes them go. It was a tough game for IC as Fisher played really well (they had over a week to prepare for IC and it showed).

    I would have loved to have seen the Hartwick/Stevens game. Sounds like a classic. How many people had Hartwick in the finals at the start of the season?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on February 26, 2011, 02:02:52 AM
    I truly hope that Ithaca gets a chance to dance but I am afraid it might not happen.  So many good teams in the Northeast and there is already a bias in that direction (just look at the d3 rankings) and truthfully, if you look at past results, the bias is probably justified.  I can only hope that the committee can not see fit to only dole out one pool c bid to the entire east region (I am assuming that Oswego goes) and makes some other region's team the "bubble team that got screwed"! ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 26, 2011, 10:28:46 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 26, 2011, 02:02:52 AM
    I truly hope that Ithaca gets a chance to dance but I am afraid it might not happen.  So many good teams in the Northeast and there is already a bias in that direction (just look at the d3 rankings) and truthfully, if you look at past results, the bias is probably justified.  I can only hope that the committee can not see fit to only dole out one pool c bid to the entire east region (I am assuming that Oswego goes) and makes some other region's team the "bubble team that got screwed"! ;D

    If I hear one person claim "Ithaca got screwed out of a bid," I'm going to lose my ****ing mind. Getting screwed to me is a team playing in a deep conference, finishing 2nd, and missing out. It is not losing in the opening round of your conference tournament for the 8th year in a row--and the third time in four years as the #1 seed, no less--and expecting the selection committee to do what you couldn't do and write you a way into the dance.

    The Bombers have had a very good season, and played a very tough schedule. According to one assistant I spoke to yesterday, they've played, by far, the toughest schedule in the East.

    That being said, Ithaca's go no-one to blame but itself if it misses out. I'm short on sympathy for teams that constantly underachieve in the conference playoffs and then try to shift the blame to a committee. So if they get left out, I hope all we hear is "Yup. We deserved it"
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on February 26, 2011, 12:17:44 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 26, 2011, 10:28:46 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 26, 2011, 02:02:52 AM
    I truly hope that Ithaca gets a chance to dance but I am afraid it might not happen.  So many good teams in the Northeast and there is already a bias in that direction (just look at the d3 rankings) and truthfully, if you look at past results, the bias is probably justified.  I can only hope that the committee can not see fit to only dole out one pool c bid to the entire east region (I am assuming that Oswego goes) and makes some other region's team the "bubble team that got screwed"! ;D

    If I hear one person claim "Ithaca got screwed out of a bid," I'm going to lose my ****ing mind. Getting screwed to me is a team playing in a deep conference, finishing 2nd, and missing out. It is not losing in the opening round of your conference tournament for the 8th year in a row--and the third time in four years as the #1 seed, no less--and expecting the selection committee to do what you couldn't do and write you a way into the dance.

    The Bombers have had a very good season, and played a very tough schedule. According to one assistant I spoke to yesterday, they've played, by far, the toughest schedule in the East.

    That being said, Ithaca's go no-one to blame but itself if it misses out. I'm short on sympathy for teams that constantly underachieve in the conference playoffs and then try to shift the blame to a committee. So if they get left out, I hope all we hear is "Yup. We deserved it"

    Great Post...I couldn't agree more.   
    Also glad I was wrong about Hartwick pulling out a win at Stevens.  Now a home game for the E8 title...I did predict Wick making the playoffs, but didn't dream that they might actually win it.  Great job and Good Luck!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 26, 2011, 02:29:43 PM
    Quote from: TheNextLevel on February 26, 2011, 12:17:44 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 26, 2011, 10:28:46 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 26, 2011, 02:02:52 AM
    I truly hope that Ithaca gets a chance to dance but I am afraid it might not happen.  So many good teams in the Northeast and there is already a bias in that direction (just look at the d3 rankings) and truthfully, if you look at past results, the bias is probably justified.  I can only hope that the committee can not see fit to only dole out one pool c bid to the entire east region (I am assuming that Oswego goes) and makes some other region's team the "bubble team that got screwed"! ;D

    If I hear one person claim "Ithaca got screwed out of a bid," I'm going to lose my ****ing mind. Getting screwed to me is a team playing in a deep conference, finishing 2nd, and missing out. It is not losing in the opening round of your conference tournament for the 8th year in a row--and the third time in four years as the #1 seed, no less--and expecting the selection committee to do what you couldn't do and write you a way into the dance.

    The Bombers have had a very good season, and played a very tough schedule. According to one assistant I spoke to yesterday, they've played, by far, the toughest schedule in the East.

    That being said, Ithaca's go no-one to blame but itself if it misses out. I'm short on sympathy for teams that constantly underachieve in the conference playoffs and then try to shift the blame to a committee. So if they get left out, I hope all we hear is "Yup. We deserved it"

    Great Post...I couldn't agree more.  
    Also glad I was wrong about Hartwick pulling out a win at Stevens.  Now a home game for the E8 title...I did predict Wick making the playoffs, but didn't dream that they might actually win it.  Great job and Good Luck!
    IC has never passed the blame to a committee.  They didn't deserve to get in last year and made no claims they did.  Now comes the question of whether they deserve to get in based on the NCAA's criteria.  The answer to that is YES.  If they do by chance miss out,  which I do not think they will, I will not say they necessarily "got screwed" out of a bid but I will say their quality of work from November until last week warranted a bid.  Luckily, nothing else gets taken into consideration when determining the at-large bids other than the quality of work the entire season (i.e. not current or past postseason transgressions).  They will most likely be the 3rd ranked East Region team at the time of the selection behind Oswego and UR, who will both get in.  Oswego will get an at-large and UR will win the UAA automatic bid.  

    Judging on last year's results the following teams received at large bids from the East:
    Oneonta State - was ranked 4th in the final published East Region rankings
    St. John Fisher - was ranked 1st

    So does IC have anyone to blame but themselves if they don't get in?  No.  But their season long package of work warrants another trip to the NCAAs.  If/when they get a bid they definitely won't get a home game and will probably face stiff competition.

    Now Stevens on the other hand officially sealed their fate with their loss.  They were on the fence prior to the tournament and now need a miracle to get in.  Within two games they went from a chance to host the E8 tournament and a probable at large bid to needing a miracle to have a shot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 26, 2011, 05:11:29 PM
    Elms' win knocks another bubble team off...grim for the Bombers...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 26, 2011, 05:13:41 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 26, 2011, 02:29:43 PM


    Now Stevens on the other hand officially sealed their fate with their loss.  They were on the fence prior to the tournament and now need a miracle to get in.  Within two games they went from a chance to host the E8 tournament and a probable at large bid to needing a miracle to have a shot.

    Stevens has absolutely no shot at getting in. The E8's not sending three teams to the NCAA's
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 26, 2011, 07:36:54 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 26, 2011, 05:13:41 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 26, 2011, 02:29:43 PM


    Now Stevens on the other hand officially sealed their fate with their loss.  They were on the fence prior to the tournament and now need a miracle to get in.  Within two games they went from a chance to host the E8 tournament and a probable at large bid to needing a miracle to have a shot.

    Stevens has absolutely no shot at getting in. The E8's not sending three teams to the NCAA's
    ..thats essentially what I said.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 27, 2011, 12:04:26 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 26, 2011, 07:36:54 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 26, 2011, 05:13:41 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 26, 2011, 02:29:43 PM

    to needing a miracle to have a shot.



    No,
    Stevens has absolutely no shot at getting in. The E8's not sending three teams to the NCAA's
    ..thats essentially what I said.

    See how selectively highlighting things works? Not only did you qualify your original statement of "Stevens sealed their fate" with your whole miracle thing, you qualified the rebuttal of my post by saying that's "essentially" what you said.

    There's no miracle that can save Stevens. They were done the second the Bombers finished blowing their game, but Oswego State and Rochester just piled on for good fun.

    In a related story, what the heck happened to the East Region? The 1-5 seeds all lost. Brutal weekend.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: maxpower on February 27, 2011, 12:09:35 PM
    Does IC put 'regular season champion' banners up in Ben Light? Maybe they should start.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on February 27, 2011, 05:32:18 PM
    Bomber plus lots of numbers - I, too, do not think that Ithaca deserves the right to expect to go.  Their playoff performance in recent history has been pitiful.  At some point someone on the coaching staff has to say "we have to prepare differently because what we have been doing isn't working".  The talent on some of those teams was without question the best in the league if not the entire east but when you lose so many games at home in a row your team is playing tight or you aren't preparing the proper game plan.  I can not say I am an insider here, but at some point the coaching staff has to take some ownership in an effort to break the "curse of the Bulb-o" (with apologies to Babe Ruth & the Red Sox). :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 27, 2011, 06:21:30 PM
    Hartwick gets the E8 title, knocking off Fisher 69-58.

    First conference tournament appearance for the Hawks and they win the championship. Maybe they can give IC a pointer or two.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 27, 2011, 07:58:25 PM
    Hey guys, Stevens needs to win the e-8 to get in...AS I BELIEVE IC very may well have to win to get in too.


    That's from a post I put in before the tourney....... Bomber 987.... is right.... neither team should go.........this conference took a few steps back this year. While IC is legit, JUST NOT hungry........You could see this Stevens loss coming..They are not GREAT at home, and hey can't score with an IC OR Hartwick if they are on. Their defense is good, Smith is a monster... Jones came from No Where.  way above his head... Cutri has talent but seems to get lost in the game sometimes  Thompson looks like a deer in the head lights, plays not to make mistakes..... Needs to be more gutsy....The bench is young..... They really played above their heads this year.  BUT ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 27, 2011, 08:12:30 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 27, 2011, 12:04:26 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 26, 2011, 07:36:54 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 26, 2011, 05:13:41 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 26, 2011, 02:29:43 PM

    to needing a miracle to have a shot.



    No,
    Stevens has absolutely no shot at getting in. The E8's not sending three teams to the NCAA's
    ..thats essentially what I said.

    See how selectively highlighting things works? Not only did you qualify your original statement of "Stevens sealed their fate" with your whole miracle thing, you qualified the rebuttal of my post by saying that's "essentially" what you said.

    There's no miracle that can save Stevens. They were done the second the Bombers finished blowing their game, but Oswego State and Rochester just piled on for good fun.

    In a related story, what the heck happened to the East Region? The 1-5 seeds all lost. Brutal weekend.
    Needing a miracle is essentially saying the same thing as it ain't happening.  Are they 100% out?  No, probably like 99.9%. Stevens was the 4 seed in the region so there are crazier things that have happened than if they got in.  As stated in my previous post, Oneonta State was the 4 seed in the East Region in the final standings last year and received an at-large bid.  Yes, they won a game or two in the playoffs so that helped their cause.  At no point in the NCAA's at-large selection criteria do they ever consider the # of teams in the conference or region that are awarded automatic/at large bids. So the fact Hartwick received a bid and IC probably is getting a bid never comes into play.  Comments like "The E8's not sending three teams to the NCAA's" or similar statements about the east region's # of at-large bids don't make much sense.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 27, 2011, 08:19:08 PM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 27, 2011, 05:32:18 PM
    Bomber plus lots of numbers - I, too, do not think that Ithaca deserves the right to expect to go.  Their playoff performance in recent history has been pitiful.  At some point someone on the coaching staff has to say "we have to prepare differently because what we have been doing isn't working".  The talent on some of those teams was without question the best in the league if not the entire east but when you lose so many games at home in a row your team is playing tight or you aren't preparing the proper game plan.  I can not say I am an insider here, but at some point the coaching staff has to take some ownership in an effort to break the "curse of the Bulb-o" (with apologies to Babe Ruth & the Red Sox). :D
    As stated previously, past playoff performance, as pitiful as it may be, never comes into consideration during the selection process.   So that is not a legitimate or relevant reason to say they shouldn't expect to go. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3lifer on February 27, 2011, 08:24:24 PM
    Congratulations to the Hartwick Hawks on their win, was a great scene at Lambros Arena as the Hawks squad controled the tempo and secured a 13th trip to the NCAA's for the storied Hartwick program but first in the last 15 years. Nice to see a great atmosphere on Oyaron Hill.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 27, 2011, 10:09:55 PM
    Quote from: d3lifer on February 27, 2011, 08:24:24 PM
    Congratulations to the Hartwick Hawks on their win, was a great scene at Lambros Arena as the Hawks squad controled the tempo and secured a 13th trip to the NCAA's for the storied Hartwick program but first in the last 15 years. Nice to see a great atmosphere on Oyaron Hill.

    I will add my congratulations to HC. No doubt the better team won today. Hartwick was lights out from three (almost 60% I think) and they dictated how the game would be played from the start.
    For Fisher, something to build on for next year I hope, but this has been a pretty bad stretch for the Fisher program. Outside of last years team, which had a good season, they have been fighting for the 4th seed more than the top seed.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 27, 2011, 10:52:34 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 27, 2011, 08:12:30 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 27, 2011, 12:04:26 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 26, 2011, 07:36:54 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 26, 2011, 05:13:41 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 26, 2011, 02:29:43 PM

    to needing a miracle to have a shot.



    No,
    Stevens has absolutely no shot at getting in. The E8's not sending three teams to the NCAA's
    ..thats essentially what I said.

    See how selectively highlighting things works? Not only did you qualify your original statement of "Stevens sealed their fate" with your whole miracle thing, you qualified the rebuttal of my post by saying that's "essentially" what you said.

    There's no miracle that can save Stevens. They were done the second the Bombers finished blowing their game, but Oswego State and Rochester just piled on for good fun.

    In a related story, what the heck happened to the East Region? The 1-5 seeds all lost. Brutal weekend.
    Needing a miracle is essentially saying the same thing as it ain't happening.  Are they 100% out?  No, probably like 99.9%. Stevens was the 4 seed in the region so there are crazier things that have happened than if they got in.  As stated in my previous post, Oneonta State was the 4 seed in the East Region in the final standings last year and received an at-large bid.  Yes, they won a game or two in the playoffs so that helped their cause.  At no point in the NCAA's at-large selection criteria do they ever consider the # of teams in the conference or region that are awarded automatic/at large bids. So the fact Hartwick received a bid and IC probably is getting a bid never comes into play.  Comments like "The E8's not sending three teams to the NCAA's" or similar statements about the east region's # of at-large bids don't make much sense.

    And why would Stevens even stay at four? The six seed, Buffalo State, won a pair of games. There's a decent chance they jump Stevens. The Ducks were borderline, and that was before teams like Oswego State, WPI, and IC got thrown into the at-large pool

    http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/d3-bracketology.html

    One man's opinion, but the Ducks, by the looks of things, are cooked.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 27, 2011, 11:13:51 PM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 27, 2011, 05:32:18 PM

    At some point someone on the coaching staff has to say "we have to prepare differently because what we have been doing isn't working". 

    Here's the problem: The style works-- I mean, you don't go 79-21 over four years in the regular season if you're not doing something right.

    The issue is, at least in my view, is that the team is too easily frustrated when the shots don't fall, gets lazy on defense, and tries to make it all up at once on the other end. It seems like Ithaca gets really rushed on offense when they aren't hitting shots. They fire up threes quickly, but then, if they don't fall, there's no-one in position to get a rebound.

    Consider, the Bombers were +7 and +2 in rebounds in the two previous games against Fisher. In this one, they were -14. That's a massive swing. And so many of them where instances where there was just no-one in position to even get one.

    Here's hoping the projection is right, and Ithaca gets another chance to break the skid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 28, 2011, 08:41:16 AM
    There is absolutely no way Stevens is going to the dance........I wish they were, but thye are in a conference that has not been thought about in the top 25, they never not votes... If they get a bid, I would lobve to know how?  I don't think IC is going.....however it could be justified giving them a bid.........

    My thought on IC is, as we all agree, they don't play defense... that can hurt when your opponent does. Fisher plays. They are limited on offense, however the combination of good defense against IC and Fisher taking advantage of that by scoring more than they usually do, did IC in....I don't buy there is a constant between each year and you can point to the same issue every year ( Losing in the first round) The team has a bit of a different make up each year... The only constant is the coaching ----- Ducks and IC -- maybe the coach is the issue, or just maybe the teams beating them have had better night. Whether it's Fisher, Naz, now Hartwick, these schools have done both Stevens iand IC in at crunch time over the last few years Tourney's. Tough to blame one thing.... Hey this conference has shown ALMOST anyone can beat anyone... So when we come to the tourney we all prognosticate.  That's fun, based on whatever mindset we have and criteria. As I sad a few times, the only thing consistant in this league is inconsistancy. That actually makes it more interesting.   IC clearly on the "BUBBLE", and Stevens a 1 seed in ECAC...   ;)   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUKaz00 on February 28, 2011, 09:22:01 AM
    Usually just a lurker on the bball boards, but after this weekend this seems more than a little bit prophetic:

    Quote from: Bengalsrule on February 24, 2011, 10:15:00 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 01:12:48 PM
    I can't imagine Stevens and Hobart doing any worse than Buffalo State in the conference tournament,

    I can!! ;)

    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 25, 2011, 10:18:59 PM
    East Region Results:

    1. Oswego- Loss, 70-74
    2. Ithaca-    Loss, 78-88
    3. Rochester- TBD
    4. Stevens- Loss, 73-76
    5. Hobart- Loss, 62-60
    6. Buffalo State- Win 87-79

    Ye gods.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 28, 2011, 10:14:53 AM
    AUKaz00    When your right your right........... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on February 28, 2011, 11:10:39 AM
    Quote from: AUKaz00 on February 28, 2011, 09:22:01 AM
    Usually just a lurker on the bball boards, but after this weekend this seems more than a little bit prophetic:

    Quote from: Bengalsrule on February 24, 2011, 10:15:00 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2011, 01:12:48 PM
    I can't imagine Stevens and Hobart doing any worse than Buffalo State in the conference tournament,

    I can!! ;)

    The "Lurker" has spoken! ;) :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 28, 2011, 11:28:30 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 28, 2011, 08:41:16 AM

    My thought on IC is, as we all agree, they don't play defense... that can hurt when your opponent does. Fisher plays. They are limited on offense, however the combination of good defense against IC and Fisher taking advantage of that by scoring more than they usually do, did IC in....I don't buy there is a constant between each year and you can point to the same issue every year ( Losing in the first round) The team has a bit of a different make up each year... The only constant is the coaching ----- Ducks and IC -- maybe the coach is the issue, or just maybe the teams beating them have had better night.    

    It's funny you mention the makeup of the team being different. In talking to someone prior to the game, I heard a, "We can score in different ways than the 2009 team. We won't need to take 41 three-pointers." Well, 34 isn't far off.

    As for the coaching, I think they've done a good job. I mean, if you've been following IC basketball for any period of time, there's no denying this is the best stretch in school history.

    The previous best four-year stretch saw IC go 71-37 from 1991-1994 with one NCAA win. These last four years? 79-26, and still a shot at an NCAA run. Sure, maybe they could find a coach who could get them some postseason wins, but odds are, the program would backslide. I'm not a fan of getting rid of anyone who takes the program into uncharted waters, regardless of the postseason foibles.




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 28, 2011, 11:52:31 AM
    D3hoops has IC in, projected to play Penn State Berhend again.

    That would be an interesting matchup. IC lost to them by 11 earlier this season, but shot well (51% overall, 52% from three). Ithaca only took five free throws, and only one in the second half--no comment.

    The defense was absent, as usual. PSB was 14-of-20 from 2 in the second half.

    However, I think, IC could win a rematch.

    For one, Phil Barera only played 19 mins in that game due to foul trouble, but had 16 points on 8-of-9 shooting. And Miles Grier was still adjusting to the college game. Those first games, he really was invisible offensively, but in his last seven, has gone into double digits six times. That increased offense means he can spell Oztemel more and help the defense out.

    I would welcome that rematch
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 28, 2011, 12:35:04 PM
    Bomber 987... As usual, I should have been clearer. I wouldn't change coaches either and never indict one...Don't want see anyomne lose their job...The point I tried to make is... the players change and results are similar. The only constant being the coach...However in these cases the team is getting into the league tourney which I am sure some of the other e-8 teams would welcome. Sort of like the Buffalo Bills of E-8 basketball... sort of.........I think instead of finding a flaw with IC and Stevens in the e-8 tourney, I should be giving more credit to the winners.

    Great Job WICK...make us proud..... SJF your always there one way or the other. I still find it hard to see IC get in NCAA... but what do I know ;)  If they do we have two shots.....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 28, 2011, 01:32:20 PM
    Bombers get in AND host a four team regional. IC vs MIT, with Rochester and Elms as well.

    Redemption begins Friday night
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 28, 2011, 01:56:50 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 28, 2011, 12:35:04 PM
    I still find it hard to see IC get in NCAA... but what do I know ;)  If they do we have two shots.....

    I guess when you're the second ranked team in the region and the top 5 teams lose, you're probably not going to be moving too far from that spot. Oswego was the top team and they're also hosting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 28, 2011, 01:58:55 PM
    Interesting note about MIT. They rank 329th in turnovers, but the Bombers rank 370th in steals. That's sort of a "movable object meets an force that struggles to move things" sort of dichotomy, but I wonder who it favors. Height is going to be a major issue for the Bombers. MIT has two starters who are 6-8. IC can't counter that unless Oztemel plays significantly, which isn't good for the defense. (I guess you could use Sweeny or Wightman, but at the expense of your offense.)

    Maybe the Bombers just say, "Screw it", throw Jordan and Grier in their, and hope to pressure the guards into T.O's while running MIT up and down the court with their athleticism. Thoughts?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 28, 2011, 01:59:54 PM
    Quote from: buck1053 on February 28, 2011, 01:56:50 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 28, 2011, 12:35:04 PM
    I still find it hard to see IC get in NCAA... but what do I know ;)  If they do we have two shots.....

    I guess when you're the second ranked team in the region and the top 5 teams lose, you're probably not going to be moving too far from that spot. Oswego was the top team and they're also hosting.

    My guess is the Rochester women will have dibbs on hosting so UR wasn't likely to host
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on February 28, 2011, 02:15:21 PM
    Buck I guess your right, Those teams ranked regionally losing sort of kept the rankings the same.... thus IC was ok..... What would Stevens chance have been had they beat Hartwick........let's say lose the Fisher game?
    Bomber987....... I would think IC will play their game. They don't want get into any half court action with the height and shouldn't alter their rotation. Pressuring the guards may not make a difference in that as you stated IC is 370 in steals, will pressure make a difference? I am beginning to learn one thing about E-8 we can look at form all we want, but it doesn't always hold true. I think IC should go at them with their strength.... shoot shoot shoot........ although defense usually gets you through these tourneys, IC has a definite strength and they should use it... let the Cards fall where they may.....too late to change now....

    Go BOMBERS, and WICK..... bring some respect back to this conference.... even though I will be elswhere next year......... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 28, 2011, 02:31:25 PM
    A question for a defensive stopper like Bomber3.

    In your experience, when a team that has a lot of turnovers faces a team that doesn't generate many, which side wins out? Vice versa for a team that's very aggressive defensively vs. a team that doesn't cough it up much?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: 7express on February 28, 2011, 02:52:15 PM
    My guess is the Rochester women will have dibbs on hosting so UR wasn't likely to host
    ------------------------------------------------------

    Yah, Rochester women are definatly hosting.  If they weren't the UR men more then likely would've been at home.  May not have been these 4 teams, but they would've been at home.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 28, 2011, 05:35:13 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on February 28, 2011, 02:15:21 PM
    Buck I guess your right, Those teams ranked regionally losing sort of kept the rankings the same.... thus IC was ok..... What would Stevens chance have been had they beat Hartwick........let's say lose the Fisher game?

    I don't know. I think they could have the edge over IC, but the Bombers did win both matchups during the season, so that may have made it hard for a committee to pick Stevens over IC. In terms of the rankings and how teams played in their last game, Stevens would have been the highest ranked team to win their final game. I'm not sure if it would have been enough to supplant Ithaca. Even if they had moved past IC in the rankings, I'm guessing the Bombers still would have gotten a bid over Stevens -- simply based on the head-to-head matchup.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 28, 2011, 08:59:46 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 28, 2011, 02:31:25 PM
    A question for a defensive stopper like Bomber3.

    In your experience, when a team that has a lot of turnovers faces a team that doesn't generate many, which side wins out? Vice versa for a team that's very aggressive defensively vs. a team that doesn't cough it up much?
    Even my optimistic projections (in comparison to other posters here) with respect to the Bombers' playoff chances seemed to have been low-balling the squad as they now have the potential for not only one home NCAA game, but two.  Seems to be a very favorable draw in terms of the location and seeding as the Bombers have another opportunity at something special.

    Now to answer your question I would probably say it is more about the defense than the offense.  Usually the defense will dictate what happens so I would expect MIT to have fewer turnovers than normal based on the fact the Bombers are relatively conservative defensively.  If a defensive is aggressive they will most likely force turnovers even if a team is strong with the ball and vice versa for a conservative defensive team.  Of course each team is different but I wouldn't expect IC to suddenly force MIT into 20 turnovers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on March 01, 2011, 03:34:13 AM
    Glad to see Ithaca go to the dance.  My comments still stand though.  EMU a top 25 team all year is the "bubble team that got screwed".  ;D  Also think that Emory in the always tough UAA with its second place finish and beating of U of R has a case too.  My comments on the coaching is NOT about the regular season.  I do not think that anyone could argue Ithaca's results but about the preparations for the playoffs and the tournament games. Perhaps too much pressure to win or players are "tight" because of "the curse" but somewhere in the mix the coaching staff has to change the how they approach these games because there is a need for redemption. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 01, 2011, 10:35:34 AM
    This is why I love this site.  We all dig deep into reasons why this and why that, then we get the "curse" factor...which I am a believer in .. sort of. We have a great cast of characters here. We are more consistent than the teams...in opur thoughts and philosophy.. That's what keeps me coming back.... I see the Ducks once ahgain in ECAC....playing Baruch AGAIN in ECAC> Talk about curses... I believe Baruch has beaten them 5 or 6 in a row..... Let's see how this curse runs it course........Am I going to lose more KARMA....I being de-KARMA'd rapidly...... :'(   ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 01, 2011, 10:38:20 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on March 01, 2011, 03:34:13 AM
    Glad to see Ithaca go to the dance.  My comments still stand though.  EMU a top 25 team all year is the "bubble team that got screwed".  ;D  Also think that Emory in the always tough UAA with its second place finish and beating of U of R has a case too.  My comments on the coaching is NOT about the regular season.  I do not think that anyone could argue Ithaca's results but about the preparations for the playoffs and the tournament games. Perhaps too much pressure to win or players are "tight" because of "the curse" but somewhere in the mix the coaching staff has to change the how they approach these games because there is a need for redemption. 

    Yeah, it's a tough spot to be in. I wonder about the players being tight. In some ways it's an unfair burden to place on them. Should the 2011 team be feeling pressure because the 2008/2009 teams couldn't get it done? But on the other hand, I think that's part of what you have to expect when you play sports. Sure, you weren't on the team three years ago, but fans don't reset at zero every season.

    This IC/MIT game is very interesting. MIT seems like they are a really aggressive team defensively. If you add up their steals + fouls, you get 747. For Ithaca, that number is 566. I wonder if they gamble a lot? MIT's opponents shoot ~20 free throws per game. Unfortunately for IC, the two guys who get to the line most often are also their worst FT shooters.

    I think this will be a tough one, but I will again say Ithaca takes it.

    Bombers 82
    MIT 77
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 01, 2011, 10:40:38 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on March 01, 2011, 10:35:34 AM
    This is why I love this site.  We all dig deep into reasons why this and why that, then we get the "curse" factor...which I am a believer in .. sort of. We have a great cast of characters here. We are more consistent than the teams...in opur thoughts and philosophy.. That's what keeps me coming back.... I see the Ducks once ahgain in ECAC....playing Baruch AGAIN in ECAC> Talk about curses... I believe Baruch has beaten them 5 or 6 in a row..... Let's see how this curse runs it course........Am I going to lose more KARMA....I being de-KARMA'd rapidly...... :'(   ;)

    I was noticing that as well. At first, I thought maybe Bomber3 had made it his mission to destroy me, but that doesn't seem to be his style. But thankfully, Karma doesn't really mean anything. If someone wants to smite me, knock yourself out.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 01, 2011, 10:57:48 AM
    You're right, karma points aren't my style and I think I have taken a beating too.  Why hasn't the time of Friday's game been announced yet?  Or has it and I'm missing it?  Also, will there be a webcast (was there one 2 years ago)?  I know the NCAA has strict policies for their games but they better have one...

    Also, condolences to the IC family for the death of a professor's freshman daughter over the weekend.  I know him personally and he is a class act and a great professor and person.  RIP.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 01, 2011, 11:53:53 AM
    Quote from: bomber3 on March 01, 2011, 10:57:48 AM
    You're right, karma points aren't my style and I think I have taken a beating too.  Why hasn't the time of Friday's game been announced yet?  Or has it and I'm missing it?  Also, will there be a webcast (was there one 2 years ago)?  I know the NCAA has strict policies for their games but they better have one...

    Also, condolences to the IC family for the death of a professor's freshman daughter over the weekend.  I know him personally and he is a class act and a great professor and person.  RIP.

    Games are at 5:30 (Rochester/Elms) and 7:30 (IC/MIT) on Friday.

    Winner plays at 7 on Saturday.

    Thankful for the bumping up the time of these games. Last year, when the women played, it was nearly impossible to get quotes in time for a newspaper when you factored in the cooling off period. Yeah, newspapers are dying, but they aren't dead yet.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 01, 2011, 12:03:24 PM
    First, my deepest condolences and prayers as well............

    So all 3 of us taking a hit on Karma,  it truly is a down year in the E8...

    I don't want to jinx our boys, but I am picking IC to get to the sweet sixteen... I'll go from there IF THERE IS A THERE......I just feel after all my talk about a down year.... maybe they go far........ form has meant very little this year. Maybe that works in IC's favor.

    Hartwick get's one win..........not bad.......(watch them win it all)......... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on March 01, 2011, 03:31:56 PM
    Not that I have had much, but I woke up this morning to find out I had lost a karma point (bringing me down to 3), but see it's now back to 4. I figured it was for a negative comment I made about Tobin Anderson over on the LL board, but maybe there was some sort of glitch.

    On a different topic, is this the first year there have only been four teams in the ECACs? I admit to not having paid much attention to them over the past few years. I remember when there were eight teams in it.

    Of course, many schools are not taking part in them anymore, as institutions cut funding to athletic programs. I know of at least a few that will only pay for their squad to take part in one postseason tournament (except for the NCAAs) and they consider the conference tournament to be postseason, meaning they won't let them compete in the ECACs after they've played their conference tournament. Personally, I think it's a terrible thing -- to take that approach -- but then again I'm not handling their budgets.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2011, 05:04:13 PM

    I only know about New England (I'm on the board because I'm planning to attend the Hartwick game this weekend), but the ECACs were a bigger deal before every conference got the AQ.  Once every team had a shot at the tournament, it became less of a deal to play in the post season.  We had a number of good teams from small conferences in the 90s that got to feel like a champion because of the ECAC, even if the NCAA didn't consider them good enough to get in.

    Now, if you're in the NCAAs its completely a consolation, even for the small schools.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 01, 2011, 05:59:09 PM

    Quote from: buck1053 on March 01, 2011, 03:31:56 PM
    Not that I have had much, but I woke up this morning to find out I had lost a karma point (bringing me down to 3), but see it's now back to 4. I figured it was for a negative comment I made about Tobin Anderson over on the LL board, but maybe there was some sort of glitch.

    On a different topic, is this the first year there have only been four teams in the ECACs? I admit to not having paid much attention to them over the past few years. I remember when there were eight teams in it.

    Of course, many schools are not taking part in them anymore, as institutions cut funding to athletic programs. I know of at least a few that will only pay for their squad to take part in one postseason tournament (except for the NCAAs) and they consider the conference tournament to be postseason, meaning they won't let them compete in the ECACs after they've played their conference tournament. Personally, I think it's a terrible thing -- to take that approach -- but then again I'm not handling their budgets.

    buck,
    In the 2007-08 season there were 8 teams in the ECAC's which was the usual number. The next year they only had 4 teams and last year there were only 4 teams as well. Ithaca, Brockport, Hobart, and RPI were last year's participants and it was the Bomber's who captured the title beating Brockport in the final. Not much of a tournament these days when you start out with the semifinals. :(

    PS: Plus K ;D    2 more posts, then you'll hit the magic number and will be able to give Karma (or take it away :D) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on March 02, 2011, 01:03:28 AM
    I like the E-8 optimism on this board!!   Go bombers of all varieties!!! :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 02, 2011, 01:00:01 PM
    I am not sure if it is Optimism, or Dillusional.........by the way. there are 8 teams in the ECAC Atlantic Region. I believe that has been constant...not sure though, so don't be hitting on my Karma :D   ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on March 02, 2011, 02:53:53 PM
    Quote from: magicman on March 01, 2011, 05:59:09 PM

    Not much of a tournament these days when you start out with the semifinals. :(


    I agree. It's too bad, too, because it means something to the players, especially the seniors, to get a chance to play a few more games. D3 athletes, typically, are hard workers both on the field of competition but also in the classroom -- and without scholarships, per se. The least these schools can do is give them as much of an opportunity to compete as possible. Especially now that you really have to win your league to get into the Big Dance, particularly in the East Region.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 03, 2011, 10:16:35 AM
    I went to the Stevens Baruch ECAC game last night....... Very impressed with the Ducks. They could have beaten almost anyone last night..... Baruch is not a bad team, but seems to hang it's head at times. While everyone played well, I give cudos to Thompson. I don't see him often, but when I do he usually looks like he is conservative --within the system-- plays not to make mistakes... I hate that forma point guard--- well last night, while he wasn't the MVP he did look like he wanted to let loose at times and play the game. He was more ascertive and agressive.... The results 6 guys in double figures... Only 5 assists, BUT ALL LEGIT..he needs to continue that. I was dosappointed in the crowd. I don't know how many maybe 150....If they play this way then can make noise in the ECAC and give the E-8 a little swagger...... ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 04, 2011, 06:51:29 PM
    Under 5 minutes to play and Hartwick trails SUNY-Purchase 68-58. Hawks need a rally bigtime.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 04, 2011, 07:26:46 PM
    Hartwick's season comes to an end as they fall to SUNY-Purchase 79-69.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 04, 2011, 09:04:12 PM
    The lack of a webcast for the Bombers NCAA game is pathetic.  I'm sure it was probably the NCAA's doing, which is pathetic and doesn't promote the game at all.  Live stats isn't working either..  ???

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 04, 2011, 09:23:10 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on March 04, 2011, 09:04:12 PM
    The lack of a webcast for the Bombers NCAA game is pathetic.  I'm sure it was probably the NCAA's doing, which is pathetic and doesn't promote the game at all.  Live stats isn't working either..  ???



    I think they couldn't get someone to do the electricity/power...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 04, 2011, 09:27:36 PM
    And, another Bomber playoff loss on their home court. 82-78...

    Good season, but once again, it ends with disappointment.

    No need to really analyze it, 0-10 kind of says it all.

    End to great careers for Chris Cruz-Rivas and Phil Barera. Thanks for all the memories, boys.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 04, 2011, 09:46:42 PM
    Wanted to say, Miles Grier goes 14 for 18 from the floor and ends with 34 points. Great game for the freshman
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on March 05, 2011, 01:36:55 AM
    And with that, the E8 season is over. At least neither Hartwick nor Ithaca were nearly as bad as the Liberty League's sole representative, as Skidmore got waxed by Amherst, 79-39. I mean, I know they're Amherst, but 40 points?!?!?!?

    Still can't figure out why Ithaca's cold streaks are a guarantee during the postseason and only occasional occurrences during postseason play. They have off nights during the regular season, but nothing like the 100 percent consistency of them once the conference tournament and NCAAs roll around.

    Hartwick should be applauded for its season, despite the 10-point loss tonight. I think the Hawks arrived about a year ahead of time (yes, I know they were picked 4th in the preseason poll), and next season will return, maybe a fully healthy, Blazek and Rookie of the Year Suderley. In fact, they have just one senior on their roster, a forward who averages about 7 points and 2 rebounds a game, mostly off the bench. They should be dangerous again next year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on March 06, 2011, 09:21:28 AM
    E8 still has Stevens playing for ecac championship...They only lose one senior Franklin... They should be right there next year as well.......


    Signing off boys   have a great summer, maybe on a bit, but RIT moving on and looks like so am I.     The jousting has been fun,

    I think this site is unigue in it's members, and no bad mouthing worth speaking of... A lkot respect EXCEPT for losing a couple of karma points........

    Have fun, and remember WHAT DO I KNOW  ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 16, 2011, 04:32:58 PM
    Phil Barera from Ithaca College was named to the D3Hoops All-East Region First Team. Sean Rossi from Ithaca, James Patterson from Utica College, and Simon Smith from Stevens Tech were named to the Second Team. Hartwick's Jared Suderley was named Rookie of the Year.

    David Golembiowski from SUNYIT was the Player of the Year. Golembiowski wraps up his career as one of the most prolific scorers and rebounders in the history of the East region. He finished with over 2100 points and almost 1000 rebounds.

    Luke Flockerzi of Rochester was named the Coach of the Year. A number of coaches from the E8, SUNYAC, Liberty League and NEAC also had excellent seasons and were probably in the running for this award. Most notably Jim Mullins from Ithaca, Todd McGuinness from Hartwick, Adam Stockwell from Oswego State, Fajri Ansari from Buffalo State, Izzi Metz from Hobart, Joe Burke from Skidmore and Joe Wojtylko from Wells.     

    Congratulations to all of these players and coaches for an outstanding year.

    Here is the complete All East Region teams.

    Men's All-East Region Team
    Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools.

    Player of the Year: David Golembiowski, Sr., SUNYIT
    Coach of the Year: Luke Flockerzi, Rochester
    Rookie of the Year: Jared Suderley, Hartwick

    First team

    Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
    G John Dibartolomeo  Rochester  So.  Westport, Conn.
    G Jake Simmons  Buffalo State  So.  Rochester, N.Y.
    F Chad Burridge  Oswego State  Jr.  Hannibal, N.Y.
    F David Golembiowski SUNYIT Sr. Barneveld, N.Y.
    C Phil Barera  Ithaca  Sr.  Belmont, Mass.


    Second team

    Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
    G James Patterson  Utica  Sr.  Poughkeepsie, N.Y.
    G Sean Rossi  Ithaca  So.  Sparta, N.J.
    F  Pat Sullivan  Hamilton  Jr.  Madison, N.J.
    F Simon Smith  Stevens  Jr.  Cranford, N.J.
    F Terry Harrison Wells Jr.  Brooklyn, N.Y.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 16, 2011, 09:42:14 PM
    Dave Golembiowski of SUNYIT and Phil Barera from Ithaca will represent the East region in the NABC All-Star Game. They are on the 10 man East squad and will play the West team on Saturday March 19th at 1:00 PM prior to the National Championship Game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: TheNextLevel on March 17, 2011, 10:17:14 PM
    Congrats to all the regional all-stars and especially Jared Suderly of Hartwick for RoY

    [/quote]
    Quote from: TheNextLevel on January 08, 2011, 12:16:10 PM
    Hartwick continues to improve...beat Naz on the road last night.   Blazak is back from his hamstring injury (missed the whole 1st semester) and freshman Jared Sudderly is a legit player.  I think they will make the E-8 Playoffs this year.

    Quote from: magicman on March 16, 2011, 04:32:58 PM
    Phil Barera from Ithaca College was named to the D3Hoops All-East Region First Team. Sean Rossi from Ithaca, James Patterson from Utica College, and Simon Smith from Stevens Tech were named to the Second Team. Hartwick's Jared Suderley was named Rookie of the Year.

    David Golembiowski from SUNYIT was the Player of the Year. Golembiowski wraps up his career as one of the most prolific scorers and rebounders in the history of the East region. He finished with over 2100 points and almost 1000 rebounds.

    Luke Flockerzi of Rochester was named the Coach of the Year. A number of coaches from the E8, SUNYAC, Liberty League and NEAC also had excellent seasons and were probably in the running for this award. Most notably Jim Mullins from Ithaca, Todd McGuinness from Hartwick, Adam Stockwell from Oswego State, Fajri Ansari from Buffalo State, Izzi Metz from Hobart, Joe Burke from Skidmore and Joe Wojtylko from Wells.     

    Congratulations to all of these players and coaches for an outstanding year.

    Here is the complete All East Region teams.

    Men's All-East Region Team
    Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools.

    Player of the Year: David Golembiowski, Sr., SUNYIT
    Coach of the Year: Luke Flockerzi, Rochester
    Rookie of the Year: Jared Suderley, Hartwick

    First team

    Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
    G John Dibartolomeo  Rochester  So.  Westport, Conn.
    G Jake Simmons  Buffalo State  So.  Rochester, N.Y.
    F Chad Burridge  Oswego State  Jr.  Hannibal, N.Y.
    F David Golembiowski SUNYIT Sr. Barneveld, N.Y.
    C Phil Barera  Ithaca  Sr.  Belmont, Mass.


    Second team

    Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
    G James Patterson  Utica  Sr.  Poughkeepsie, N.Y.
    G Sean Rossi  Ithaca  So.  Sparta, N.J.
    F  Pat Sullivan  Hamilton  Jr.  Madison, N.J.
    F Simon Smith  Stevens  Jr.  Cranford, N.J.
    F Terry Harrison Wells Jr.  Brooklyn, N.Y.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on September 09, 2011, 11:24:16 AM
    Two major pieces of news, neither of which is good, for the Ithaca College program.

    Assistant Coach Nevada Smith, who was largely responsible for installing Ithaca's successful offensive philosophy and recruiting the players to run it, is the new head coach at Keystone College. In addition, sophomore Miles Grier has left the school and will not return. Grier was Ithaca's best defensive player and had come on as an offensive threat late in the season, torching MIT for 34 points in an NCAA playoff loss.

    Expect the Bombers to look entirely different next season, as the team now lacks an established inside scoring presence. No word on if the team's up and down style will change, but I'd suspect the answer is yes.

    Best of luck to both Grier and Smith, who will both be missed, but who were valuable contributors to the program.

    Smith's tenure with the team brought about the program's most successful established stretch of success in school history. While there is still talent returning for next season, his efforts on the recruiting front were unmatched. The caliber of players the school brought in under his watch, especially offensively, were unmatched by any recent teams. Expect Keystone basketball to continue at its high level of play on his watch.

    Less to say about Grier, as his one season was marked with growing pains, but he had developed well over the season and would have been a starter next year. His unmatched athleticism will be sorely missed on a team whose leading returning scorers are a pair of three-point shooters and a pass-first point guard. I've heard he was homesick, (He's from Georgia) but you never really know with these things.

    Suddenly, I think the conference favorite Bombers are in real danger of backsliding
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on September 11, 2011, 08:58:38 PM
    Does anyone know when practice starts for E8 teams? I am really interested to see what Fisher (and others) brought into camp this year. I liked Fisher's recruiting class last year, and am hoping they backed it up with another solid group.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on September 12, 2011, 10:04:05 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on September 09, 2011, 11:24:16 AM
    Two major pieces of news, neither of which is good, for the Ithaca College program.

    Assistant Coach Nevada Smith, who was largely responsible for installing Ithaca's successful offensive philosophy and recruiting the players to run it, is the new head coach at Keystone College. In addition, sophomore Miles Grier has left the school and will not return. Grier was Ithaca's best defensive player and had come on as an offensive threat late in the season, torching MIT for 34 points in an NCAA playoff loss.

    Expect the Bombers to look entirely different next season, as the team now lacks an established inside scoring presence. No word on if the team's up and down style will change, but I'd suspect the answer is yes.

    Best of luck to both Grier and Smith, who will both be missed, but who were valuable contributors to the program.

    Smith's tenure with the team brought about the program's most successful established stretch of success in school history. While there is still talent returning for next season, his efforts on the recruiting front were unmatched. The caliber of players the school brought in under his watch, especially offensively, were unmatched by any recent teams. Expect Keystone basketball to continue at its high level of play on his watch.

    Less to say about Grier, as his one season was marked with growing pains, but he had developed well over the season and would have been a starter next year. His unmatched athleticism will be sorely missed on a team whose leading returning scorers are a pair of three-point shooters and a pass-first point guard. I've heard he was homesick, (He's from Georgia) but you never really know with these things.

    Suddenly, I think the conference favorite Bombers are in real danger of backsliding
    Yes, congrats to Coach Smith on the new coaching position at Keystone.  He was instrumental at reviving the program and under his tenure, the program experienced the most success school history in recent memory.  He excels on the offensive end and scouting opposing teams.  His detailed scounting reports probably save 4-6 points a game.  Overall, the number of wins the 5 years before and after he arrived speaks for itself:

    # of wins 5 years before in order:
    16, 12, 13, 13, 16

    5 years after in order:
    15, 17, 24, 20, 20

    Hopefully Keystone schedules IC so when the Bo Ryan swing offense is reinstated next year Keystone can learn a lesson or two!  Good luck to Coach Smith and hopefully he'll make it back for a reunion or two in the future. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on October 06, 2011, 12:03:23 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on September 11, 2011, 08:58:38 PM
    Does anyone know when practice starts for E8 teams? I am really interested to see what Fisher (and others) brought into camp this year. I liked Fisher's recruiting class last year, and am hoping they backed it up with another solid group.

    sjfcards,
    I believe the NCAA rules allows teams to start organized practices (with the coach present) on October 15th. First day a regular season game can be played is November 15th. Of course if you live in the area and were to wander over to the gym most evenings, I'm sure you'd see all the returning players and incoming recruits playing pickup games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 06, 2011, 10:41:41 PM
    Quote from: magicman on October 06, 2011, 12:03:23 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on September 11, 2011, 08:58:38 PM
    Does anyone know when practice starts for E8 teams? I am really interested to see what Fisher (and others) brought into camp this year. I liked Fisher's recruiting class last year, and am hoping they backed it up with another solid group.

    sjfcards,
    I believe the NCAA rules allows teams to start organized practices (with the coach present) on October 15th. First day a regular season game can be played is November 15th. Of course if you live in the area and were to wander over to the gym most evenings, I'm sure you'd see all the returning players and incoming recruits playing pickup games.

    Yeah I remember those "optional" practices when I was playing soccer at Fisher. For being optiona, it was never a good idea to opt out of going.

    I know I am early. I was more or less hoping that someone knew of a local kid or two that were on their way to one of the E8 schools. Fisher has gone way off the local grid lately in recruiting, but you never know.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on October 07, 2011, 07:51:12 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 06, 2011, 10:41:41 PM
    Quote from: magicman on October 06, 2011, 12:03:23 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on September 11, 2011, 08:58:38 PM
    Does anyone know when practice starts for E8 teams? I am really interested to see what Fisher (and others) brought into camp this year. I liked Fisher's recruiting class last year, and am hoping they backed it up with another solid group.

    sjfcards,
    I believe the NCAA rules allows teams to start organized practices (with the coach present) on October 15th. First day a regular season game can be played is November 15th. Of course if you live in the area and were to wander over to the gym most evenings, I'm sure you'd see all the returning players and incoming recruits playing pickup games.

    Yeah I remember those "optional" practices when I was playing soccer at Fisher. For being optiona, it was never a good idea to opt out of going.

    I know I am early. I was more or less hoping that someone knew of a local kid or two that were on their way to one of the E8 schools. Fisher has gone way off the local grid lately in recruiting, but you never know.

    Not positive, but I believe Brandon McDaniel from Sherburne-Earlville is headed to Utica.  And Bridget Irwin from S-E is playing at Fisher.  For what it's worth
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on October 11, 2011, 12:51:22 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 06, 2011, 10:41:41 PM
    Quote from: magicman on October 06, 2011, 12:03:23 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on September 11, 2011, 08:58:38 PM
    Does anyone know when practice starts for E8 teams? I am really interested to see what Fisher (and others) brought into camp this year. I liked Fisher's recruiting class last year, and am hoping they backed it up with another solid group.

    sjfcards,
    I believe the NCAA rules allows teams to start organized practices (with the coach present) on October 15th. First day a regular season game can be played is November 15th. Of course if you live in the area and were to wander over to the gym most evenings, I'm sure you'd see all the returning players and incoming recruits playing pickup games.

    Yeah I remember those "optional" practices when I was playing soccer at Fisher. For being optiona, it was never a good idea to opt out of going.

    I know I am early. I was more or less hoping that someone knew of a local kid or two that were on their way to one of the E8 schools. Fisher has gone way off the local grid lately in recruiting, but you never know.

    I know 1 local kid that didn't stray too far from Rochester. Anyar Majak - Jefferson High school - 2010-11 stats -19.0 PPG and averaged 5.6 Blocks per game (107 season - #1 in Section V - all classes). SJF will get a close up look at him in 2 weeks when they come to Buff State for a scrimmage! (BENGALS went to SJF last year).

    I'll be sure to post an update of how SJF looks after that scrimmage.

    magic man....The staff at BUFF State wouldnt miss those games at U of R for the world. Heck I might join them myself! ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 25, 2011, 08:32:13 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on October 11, 2011, 12:51:22 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 06, 2011, 10:41:41 PM
    Quote from: magicman on October 06, 2011, 12:03:23 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on September 11, 2011, 08:58:38 PM
    Does anyone know when practice starts for E8 teams? I am really interested to see what Fisher (and others) brought into camp this year. I liked Fisher's recruiting class last year, and am hoping they backed it up with another solid group.

    sjfcards,
    I believe the NCAA rules allows teams to start organized practices (with the coach present) on October 15th. First day a regular season game can be played is November 15th. Of course if you live in the area and were to wander over to the gym most evenings, I'm sure you'd see all the returning players and incoming recruits playing pickup games.

    Yeah I remember those "optional" practices when I was playing soccer at Fisher. For being optiona, it was never a good idea to opt out of going.

    I know I am early. I was more or less hoping that someone knew of a local kid or two that were on their way to one of the E8 schools. Fisher has gone way off the local grid lately in recruiting, but you never know.

    I know 1 local kid that didn't stray too far from Rochester. Anyar Majak - Jefferson High school - 2010-11 stats -19.0 PPG and averaged 5.6 Blocks per game (107 season - #1 in Section V - all classes). SJF will get a close up look at him in 2 weeks when they come to Buff State for a scrimmage! (BENGALS went to SJF last year).

    I'll be sure to post an update of how SJF looks after that scrimmage.

    magic man....The staff at BUFF State wouldnt miss those games at U of R for the world. Heck I might join them myself! ;)

    Was tonight the night for the Buff State and Fisher? Let me know how it looked Bengals.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on October 29, 2011, 11:37:11 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 25, 2011, 08:32:13 PM
    Was tonight the night for the Buff State and Fisher? Let me know how it looked Bengals.

       Actually the scrimmage was today (3 pm) at Buff State. 3 - 20 min periods. 1st period Bengals 52-42, 2nd session Bengals 44-39 and 3rd (20 minutes sessions although the refs wanted only 10 >:( ) St John Fisher 29-24. Can't say who did what for SJF but #41 big guy dark hair  was good inside. A nice array of moves and should cause problems for many. #2 probably had 6 or 7 treys in the first 2 sessions alone. He is definitly gonna hurt some folks. Thier bench did not seem particulry deep ( they played 7 to 8 fellas for most of the first 2 sessions). In fact I don't believe #41 sat out more than 2 of the first 20 mins. While the Bengals got all 16 players in the first 20! #41 should be a difference maker. He and #2 (sorry didnt catch their names since neither team used a scorebook) create a nice inside /outside combo for SJF. ;)

    I'd be surprised if they arent in the top  2or 3 of the E8!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 30, 2011, 12:07:06 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on October 29, 2011, 11:37:11 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 25, 2011, 08:32:13 PM
    Was tonight the night for the Buff State and Fisher? Let me know how it looked Bengals.

       Actually the scrimmage was today (3 pm) at Buff State. 3 - 20 min periods. 1st period Bengals 52-42, 2nd session Bengals 44-39 and 3rd (20 minutes sessions although the refs wanted only 10 >:( ) St John Fisher 29-24. Can't say who did what for SJF but #41 big guy dark hair  was good inside. A nice array of moves and should cause problems for many. #2 probably had 6 or 7 treys in the first 2 sessions alone. He is definitly gonna hurt some folks. Thier bench did not seem particulry deep ( they played 7 to 8 fellas for most of the first 2 sessions). In fact I don't believe #41 sat out more than 2 of the first 20 mins. While the Bengals got all 16 players in the first 20! #41 should be a difference maker. He and #2 (sorry didnt catch their names since neither team used a scorebook) create a nice inside /outside combo for SJF. ;)

    I'd be surprised if they arent in the top  2or 3 of the E8!

    Thanks for the info Bengals. I am shocked at some of the names that are not on the roster for Fisher this year. Where is Brent Harder? Zach Messenger? Why can't Kornaker hold onto these guys? I am glad to hear you say they will be top 2 or 3 in the E8. I hope you are correct.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on October 30, 2011, 06:14:39 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 30, 2011, 12:07:06 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on October 29, 2011, 11:37:11 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 25, 2011, 08:32:13 PM
    Was tonight the night for the Buff State and Fisher? Let me know how it looked Bengals.

       Actually the scrimmage was today (3 pm) at Buff State. 3 - 20 min periods. 1st period Bengals 52-42, 2nd session Bengals 44-39 and 3rd (20 minutes sessions although the refs wanted only 10 >:( ) St John Fisher 29-24. Can't say who did what for SJF but #41 big guy dark hair  was good inside. A nice array of moves and should cause problems for many. #2 probably had 6 or 7 treys in the first 2 sessions alone. He is definitly gonna hurt some folks. Thier bench did not seem particulry deep ( they played 7 to 8 fellas for most of the first 2 sessions). In fact I don't believe #41 sat out more than 2 of the first 20 mins. While the Bengals got all 16 players in the first 20! #41 should be a difference maker. He and #2 (sorry didnt catch their names since neither team used a scorebook) create a nice inside /outside combo for SJF. ;)

    I'd be surprised if they arent in the top  2or 3 of the E8!

    Thanks for the info Bengals. I am shocked at some of the names that are not on the roster for Fisher this year. Where is Brent Harder? Zach Messenger? Why can't Kornaker hold onto these guys? I am glad to hear you say they will be top 2 or 3 in the E8. I hope you are correct.

    #41 is 6'6" junior Jason Norsen who was Fisher's leading rebounder and 2nd leading scorer last year. #2 is a 6' sophomore guard, Thad Wier, who transferred from Lander University in South Carolina. Thad is from East Aurora high school and led his high school team in 3 pointers, assists and steals. He's probably happier playing ball closer to home.
    As Bengalsrule mentioned Fisher's bench isn't very deep, as they lost 3 starters and 3 other players from their 10 man rotation. They lost Brent Harder, Zach Messinger, and Casey Courneen who were all freshman last year that got significant playing time with Harder starting all 27 games, averaging over 10 ppg. Perhaps they were homesick as they came from Colorado, Connecticut, and Pennslyvania, respectively Maybe it's an academic matter. I wouldn't think it's a lack of playing time or not being happy with the program.There are nine freshman on Fisher's roster this year, some of whom may have to be rushed into play. With leading scorer Jordan Gettings back and Wier joining him in the backcourt the Cardinals should be okay in that department. Norsen will be one of the better big men in the league. But these guys had better be in good condition because I can see them playing 35+ minutes a game. And they need to stay out of foul trouble as well. Perhaps Kornaker is optimistic that this year's recruits will contribute right away. After all incoming frosh 6'5"  Optimystik Kinard (got to be the E8 name of the year and possibly the D3hoops name of the year) has optimism written all over him.       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 30, 2011, 05:29:13 PM
    Quote from: magicman on October 30, 2011, 06:14:39 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 30, 2011, 12:07:06 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on October 29, 2011, 11:37:11 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 25, 2011, 08:32:13 PM
    Was tonight the night for the Buff State and Fisher? Let me know how it looked Bengals.

       Actually the scrimmage was today (3 pm) at Buff State. 3 - 20 min periods. 1st period Bengals 52-42, 2nd session Bengals 44-39 and 3rd (20 minutes sessions although the refs wanted only 10 >:( ) St John Fisher 29-24. Can't say who did what for SJF but #41 big guy dark hair  was good inside. A nice array of moves and should cause problems for many. #2 probably had 6 or 7 treys in the first 2 sessions alone. He is definitly gonna hurt some folks. Thier bench did not seem particulry deep ( they played 7 to 8 fellas for most of the first 2 sessions). In fact I don't believe #41 sat out more than 2 of the first 20 mins. While the Bengals got all 16 players in the first 20! #41 should be a difference maker. He and #2 (sorry didnt catch their names since neither team used a scorebook) create a nice inside /outside combo for SJF. ;)

    I'd be surprised if they arent in the top  2or 3 of the E8!

    Thanks for the info Bengals. I am shocked at some of the names that are not on the roster for Fisher this year. Where is Brent Harder? Zach Messenger? Why can't Kornaker hold onto these guys? I am glad to hear you say they will be top 2 or 3 in the E8. I hope you are correct.

    #41 is 6'6" junior Jason Norsen who was Fisher's leading rebounder and 2nd leading scorer last year. #2 is a 6' sophomore guard, Thad Wier, who transferred from Lander University in South Carolina. Thad is from East Aurora high school and led his high school team in 3 pointers, assists and steals. He's probably happier playing ball closer to home.
    As Bengalsrule mentioned Fisher's bench isn't very deep, as they lost 3 starters and 3 other players from their 10 man rotation. They lost Brent Harder, Zach Messinger, and Casey Courneen who were all freshman last year that got significant playing time with Harder starting all 27 games, averaging over 10 ppg. Perhaps they were homesick as they came from Colorado, Connecticut, and Pennslyvania, respectively Maybe it's an academic matter. I wouldn't think it's a lack of playing time or not being happy with the program.There are nine freshman on Fisher's roster this year, some of whom may have to be rushed into play. With leading scorer Jordan Gettings back and Wier joining him in the backcourt the Cardinals should be okay in that department. Norsen will be one of the better big men in the league. But these guys had better be in good condition because I can see them playing 35+ minutes a game. And they need to stay out of foul trouble as well. Perhaps Kornaker is optimistic that this year's recruits will contribute right away. After all incoming frosh 6'5"  Optimystik Kinard (got to be the E8 name of the year and possibly the D3hoops name of the year) has optimism written all over him.       

    Yeah what is going on with those guys not being back this year? I was excited to see Harder this year after a real solid freshman year, and I loved Zach Messenger's upside (6'4 and could shoot). I did see some youtube videos of Optimystik Kinard and he looks like a solid player, but you never know until they play at this level.

    Any thoughts on what the starting lineup will be? I am guessing that Gettings will be the 1, and Norsen will be the 5 (Wier as the 2?).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on October 31, 2011, 12:02:43 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 30, 2011, 05:29:13 PM
    Any thoughts on what the starting lineup will be? I am guessing that Gettings will be the 1, and Norsen will be the 5 (Wier as the 2?).

    Weir definitly the 2. In the scrimmage the point was a dark haired fella who wore the #20. Dont know if that helps or not SFcards
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 31, 2011, 08:29:00 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on October 31, 2011, 12:02:43 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 30, 2011, 05:29:13 PM
    Any thoughts on what the starting lineup will be? I am guessing that Gettings will be the 1, and Norsen will be the 5 (Wier as the 2?).

    Weir definitly the 2. In the scrimmage the point was a dark haired fella who wore the #20. Dont know if that helps or not SFcards

    Thanks for all of the info. The Fisher webpage has Ryan Kramer (the QB of the Fisher Football team) listed as #20. The guy was a stud in high school, but didn't contribute much last year.

    It has been tough to get a read on some of these Fisher teams the past few years. Departures for one reason or another (Harder, Henderson, etc.) has made me rely on youtube and google for most of what I know about these players.

    I keep waiting for Fisher to get back to the top of the East Region, but they will need to keep some of this young talent if they are going to get there. After they won the regular season in the E8, and went to the NCAA's as an at large a few years back, I thought they were on their way back, but most (if not all) of that team is gone now. Even the young contributors.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 07, 2011, 02:50:05 PM
    Where is everyone?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 08, 2011, 03:28:21 PM
    all i hear is crickets! ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 09, 2011, 03:30:06 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 08, 2011, 03:28:21 PM
    all i hear is crickets! ;D

    Crazy right? At least we have two Fisher fans.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 10, 2011, 09:40:57 AM
    Cards,
    Ill be honest, I dont follow BBall like I do Football or even Lacrosse.
    I would like them to be good tho! :P
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 10, 2011, 09:57:29 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 10, 2011, 09:40:57 AM
    Cards,
    Ill be honest, I dont follow BBall like I do Football or even Lacrosse.
    I would like them to be good tho! :P

    Fisher will always be above average. I don't know if they will be "good" this year, but I am cautiously optimistic. I like Gettings at the 1, and this Thad Weir looks like the real deal at the 2. Norsen is a quality big man that can score and will make like difficult for other teams. The 3 and 4 spots are the question areas. The starters in the Waterloo scrimmage were Plata (3) and Wrap (4). They are both athletic, but I don't know if they can carry the load night in and night out. Optymistic Kinard (early favorite for name of the year) and several others showed some promise in the last scrimmage.

    I also want to find out about this Spencer Dalzell kid. He is a transfer that played for St. Rose last year. He is from Red Hook high school (A very stron high school program), and was recruited higher than most DIII players. He did not play at all in the scrimmage I watched so I am wondering if he is hurt or something else is going on. I can't believe a player like that will not see the floor.

    I think they can score, but can they get enough stops to win will be the big question.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 15, 2011, 05:52:33 PM
    Still working on the assumption other posters are still out there. Fisher starts tonight. Any way to follow the game online?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 16, 2011, 01:38:29 PM
    Hey guys I'm still around.  I'll bet your all jumping for joy about that. Tigers are elswhere this year and need to concentrate on them, but will keep an eye on E-8.

    I'll make some early guessing on e-8 finish... keep in mind WHAT DO I KNOW?

    Hartwick
    IC
    Stevens
    Fisher
    Naz
    Alfred
    Utica
    Elmira

    I am completely out of the loop, but will try to stay on top........ If RIT were in the conference I would put them between Fisher and Naz........  But there not so who cares.........
    ;)













    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 16, 2011, 09:08:09 PM
    Bombers opened the season last night with a major dud against Hobart, losing by 25+.  I didn't see the game but it appears there wasn't much defense played by the Bombers and apparently not much offense either.  I saw them play last week and the team looked decent, but not great, winning a scrimmage by 3.  Jordan Marcus needs to be their go-to guy this year and has an outside shot at breaking the all-time scoring record, assuming he has better days than yesterday.  Their bigs were solid but they will miss Barera, as most teams would if they lost an all-region player.  Their transfer from Rutgers didn't play much in the scrimmage and was a non-factor.

    Overall, they got off to a rough start but this team should be pretty good.  I don't know if they will reach 20 wins but they will be pretty good.  Need to be a lot better than yesterday.  Go Bombers.   

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 17, 2011, 03:20:32 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 16, 2011, 09:08:09 PM
    Bombers opened the season last night with a major dud against Hobart, losing by 25+.  I didn't see the game but it appears there wasn't much defense played by the Bombers and apparently not much offense either.  I saw them play last week and the team looked decent, but not great, winning a scrimmage by 3.  Jordan Marcus needs to be their go-to guy this year and has an outside shot at breaking the all-time scoring record, assuming he has better days than yesterday.  Their bigs were solid but they will miss Barera, as most teams would if they lost an all-region player.  Their transfer from Rutgers didn't play much in the scrimmage and was a non-factor.

    Overall, they got off to a rough start but this team should be pretty good.  I don't know if they will reach 20 wins but they will be pretty good.  Need to be a lot better than yesterday.  Go Bombers.   

    What a disaster. So, I know I'm largely cynical on this board, but I don't see the Bombers doing better than 15 wins.

    They've got a great PG, but he's pass-first. The two biggest scorers are almost exclusively perimeter players. Where's the athletic slashing player who can get to the hoop like Rivas and Grier could? Can Christian Jordan really be expected to fill that role? Ithaca has no interior presence, as they were killed on the boards last night (-18)

    Defensively...ugh. Look, I'm sure Hobart was hot, but, in very rare cases does a team play good quality defense and contest shots and allow a team to shoot 63%/72%. This team does not have the horses to allow 90 points a game and win. Oztemel's too streaky, Jordan hasn't established himself on the offensive end yet, Mitchell's new to the system...and there isn't enough depth.

    Just for comparison's sake, the Bombers' scored 108 and 95 points against Hobart the last two years.

    This team has lost a ton of athleticism. Grier and Cruz were all over the floor and provided a nice balance to Marcus and Oztemel's outside gunning. And Barera outworked everyone getting up and down the court. Unless things change drastically, where are the wins coming from? You're closer to the program than me Bomber3, so I'll defer to your wisdom if you see things differently, but I see a return to the 15-10/14-11/13-12 squads of yesteryear
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 17, 2011, 08:57:02 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 17, 2011, 03:20:32 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 16, 2011, 09:08:09 PM
    Bombers opened the season last night with a major dud against Hobart, losing by 25+.  I didn't see the game but it appears there wasn't much defense played by the Bombers and apparently not much offense either.  I saw them play last week and the team looked decent, but not great, winning a scrimmage by 3.  Jordan Marcus needs to be their go-to guy this year and has an outside shot at breaking the all-time scoring record, assuming he has better days than yesterday.  Their bigs were solid but they will miss Barera, as most teams would if they lost an all-region player.  Their transfer from Rutgers didn't play much in the scrimmage and was a non-factor.

    Overall, they got off to a rough start but this team should be pretty good.  I don't know if they will reach 20 wins but they will be pretty good.  Need to be a lot better than yesterday.  Go Bombers.   

    What a disaster. So, I know I'm largely cynical on this board, but I don't see the Bombers doing better than 15 wins.

    They've got a great PG, but he's pass-first. The two biggest scorers are almost exclusively perimeter players. Where's the athletic slashing player who can get to the hoop like Rivas and Grier could? Can Christian Jordan really be expected to fill that role? Ithaca has no interior presence, as they were killed on the boards last night (-18)

    Defensively...ugh. Look, I'm sure Hobart was hot, but, in very rare cases does a team play good quality defense and contest shots and allow a team to shoot 63%/72%. This team does not have the horses to allow 90 points a game and win. Oztemel's too streaky, Jordan hasn't established himself on the offensive end yet, Mitchell's new to the system...and there isn't enough depth.

    Just for comparison's sake, the Bombers' scored 108 and 95 points against Hobart the last two years.

    This team has lost a ton of athleticism. Grier and Cruz were all over the floor and provided a nice balance to Marcus and Oztemel's outside gunning. And Barera outworked everyone getting up and down the court. Unless things change drastically, where are the wins coming from? You're closer to the program than me Bomber3, so I'll defer to your wisdom if you see things differently, but I see a return to the 15-10/14-11/13-12 squads of yesteryear
    I think they will be better than that.  You are right though that they will not have much of a defensive presence.  Ross, Oztemel and Marcus don't play much defense, which is a troubling thought.  That being said, they have a point guard that can contend for the all-time assist record and a shooter that can break the school's scoring record.  If Mullins can get them to rebound and defend a little, they will be just fine.  Your prediction is in the 13-15 win range.  Mine is in the 16-9/17-8/18-7 range.  We will see.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 18, 2011, 08:18:26 AM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on November 16, 2011, 01:38:29 PM
    Hey guys I'm still around.  I'll bet your all jumping for joy about that. Tigers are elswhere this year and need to concentrate on them, but will keep an eye on E-8.

    I'll make some early guessing on e-8 finish... keep in mind WHAT DO I KNOW?

    Hartwick
    IC
    Stevens
    Fisher
    Naz
    Alfred
    Utica
    Elmira

    I am completely out of the loop, but will try to stay on top........ If RIT were in the conference I would put them between Fisher and Naz........  But there not so who cares.........
    ;)

    I can't argue with this too much, but do think Fisher is going to be better than 4th in the league. A few weeks ago, not so much, but I have been impressed with what they have brought in this year. Thad Weir looks like the real deal, and Kinard is going to be a starter before long. They are a young team, but Kornarker is a good coach, and will have them playing well come conference time.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on November 18, 2011, 02:11:33 PM
    After IC's performance I may be over-rating them a bit....... I laos could be overating Stevens and underating NAZ...IC hasn't played defense ina few years, and they may even be worse this year... They don't have as much fire power as before, they could drop a few pegs. Stevens is not deep, and they play hard D which could cause fould trouble, and without Sabatinio.........what happened to him..I thought he was going to fill in for Franklin and bring Stevens up a notch??
    NAZ... I don't know. I didn't like them last year and they are the same.....I know  year older... maybe make the top 4. I think it's Hartwick's to lose....... Good offense adequate defense.... I'll stay with my predictions however. It will be inetersting to see if Rossi has as many assists this year as the last two. He got an assist for every basket in the past, so with less points he drops off..............JUST KIDDING BOMBER GUYS...let's not start that again....remmber What do I know? ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 18, 2011, 10:03:35 PM
    Oswego State holds off Ithaca 74-71.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 18, 2011, 10:51:25 PM
    Oswego grabs the lead on a Conor Monaghan triple just seconds into the game and the Lakers were never headed in the 1st half. They opened up a 9 pt lead at 15-6 6 minutes into the period but Ithaca would quickly  tie it at 15 2 minutes later. Lakers would twice more extend their advantage to 8 points but Ithaca would always respond and the teams went into the locker room with the Lakers up 38-36.

    Bombers opened the 2nd with a three for their 1st lead of the night and from that point it was back and forth with the teams still tied at 53 wiith 13:44 left to play. Oswego then went on an 8-0 run to grab an advantage they wouldn't relinquish. Down 64-56 the Bombers fought back to within 2 at 64-62 but Chris Gilkes scores on a layup and a threeball to boost the lead to 7. The Bombers made one last push to close to 71-69 with 46 seconds left but the Lakers closed them out at the line.

    Four Lakers were in double figures led by Chad Burridge with 23 points (9x17 fg, 2x4 3's 3x3 ft) Chris Gilkes had 15 pts (7x15 fg, 1x5 3's), Sean Michele scored 14 (3x5 fg, 3x5 3's 5x6 ft) and Hayden Ward had 11 pts (4x8 fg, 2x5 3's, 1x2 ft). Michele and Ward both had 4 assists and Michele pulled down a team high 5 rebounds. Lakers were 27x56 fg, 10x25 3's 10x13 ft. They were outrebounded by the Bombers 33-28 but only turned the ball over 8 times to 11 for Ithaca.

    Bombers were led by Frank Mitchell who was the games high scorer with 25 (11x16 fg, 1x2 3's, 2x4 ft). Andrei Oztemel had a double-double with 14 pts (4x12 fg, 2x6 3's, 4x4 ft) and 13 rebounds. Jordan Marcus had 11 pts (3x7 fg, 2x5 3's, 3x4 ft). Sean Rossi had 9 pts and 6 assists. Ithaca shot 22x56 fg, 10x25 3's and 10x13 ft.

    Lakers take on Wells in a rematch of last years NCAA 1st round tournament game (won by the Lakers 64-58) at 6:00 Pm tomorrow.
    Ithaca plays Fredonia State at 2:00 Pm tomorrow.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 19, 2011, 04:33:54 PM
    Looks like Fisher will drop it's second game in as many days to Brooklyn. Tough weekend for Fisher. Maybe my optimism was a bit early about this team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 19, 2011, 05:55:42 PM
    Fredonia State downs Ithaca 75-70. I thought the Bombers would win this one after playing Oswego tough yesterday. It's looking like  Bombers798891 was right in his assessment that they might be a 15-10 team this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 22, 2011, 08:31:38 AM
    Fisher has Brockport tonight, so their chances of starting 1-3 are higher than I would have liked. My high hopes for Fisher this year took a big hit last week when they lost to two teams that Hartwick beat. Especially the Brooklyn game since Hartwick beat them and they beat Fisher by 13.

    Ouch...could be another long season for me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 22, 2011, 12:18:04 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 19, 2011, 05:55:42 PM
    Fredonia State downs Ithaca 75-70. I thought the Bombers would win this one after playing Oswego tough yesterday. It's looking like  Bombers798891 was right in his assessment that they might be a 15-10 team this year.

    I don''t know...getting waxed by a team (Hobart) that gets taken to OT by Cazenovia can't be a good thing. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 22, 2011, 07:38:58 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 22, 2011, 12:18:04 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 19, 2011, 05:55:42 PM
    Fredonia State downs Ithaca 75-70. I thought the Bombers would win this one after playing Oswego tough yesterday. It's looking like  Bombers798891 was right in his assessment that they might be a 15-10 team this year.

    I don''t know...getting waxed by a team (Hobart) that gets taken to OT by Cazenovia can't be a good thing.

    So I gather you think the 15 win plateau is to high? I think Hobart had an off night and Cazenovia probably played as good as they possibly could and almost pulled off the upset. Much like SUNY Cobleskill almost beat Oswego State last year losing to the Lakers 63-62 on a last second shot by Burridge. Hobart is picked to win the Liberty League again this year aren't they? I'm pretty sure I would bet on Ithaca if they played Cazenovia. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 22, 2011, 10:00:55 PM
    Fisher was able to pull out a win in overtime tonight against Brockport. I know B-port is 0-3, but they are always a tough out, and they play Fisher very well. That is a big win for Fisher as it sets them up to get through the Wendy's tournament and get into the weaker part of the schedule before the conference season starts.

    Norsen with 34 tonight, which is a really good sign for Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 23, 2011, 07:32:52 AM
    Nazareth gets the big upset as they take down #7 University of Rochester 82-64 Tuesday night.. Naz led from the opening whistle and grabbed a double digit 13-3 lead 4 minutes into the contest. Down 34-21, with 4 minutes left in the half, the Yellowjackets used an 8-0 spurt and got as close as five points, 34-29. Naz restored the lead to 11 however as they ended the half with back to back 3's to go into the break up 40-29. The Golden Flyers maintained a comfortable lead throughout most of the 2nd period, and any time Rochester cut the lead to single digits Naz would respond and pull away again. The foul parade started with 4 minutes left in the game as Nazareth would score 11 of their final 13 points from the line.

    Golden Flyers had 4 players hit double figures led by Jason Corletta with 24 points. Brad Ford had 15 pts along with 10 boards, while Phil Scaffidi and Tyshun Stephens both dropped in 14. John Dibartolomeo led Rochester with 15 pts. Chris Dende added 14 and Nate Vernon scored 12.
    Key stat of the game was 3 point shooting as Nazareth shot a whopping 61.9% (13x21) from beyond the arc. Rochester was only 7 for 21 (33.3%). Both teams shot well from the field as they each fired up 54 shots apiece. Rochester made 25 fg (46.3 %) while Naz made 27 for an even 50%. Naz hit 15x19 free throws (78.9 %) and the Yellowjackets only connected on 7x13 (53.8 %) Rebounds were close as Naz had 31 boards to 30 for Rochester and the Yellowjackets turned the ball over 9 times to only 5 for Nazareth.

    If the Golden Flyers performance tonight is any indication of their play this season they could jump to the front of the pack as the team to beat in the E8. I wonder though if Medaille is that good or did the Golden Flyers have a bad day when the Mavericks beat Naz 75-64 last week. Is it possible little Medaille will once again be one of the top schools in the east region? If the NCAA did an early regional ranking based on results since opening day I think they'd have Medaille in the number 1 position right now. They certainly have a leg up, whether they can maintain it or not will be the question. Of course their schedule strength will come into play because of the low ranking of the AMCC among conferences, but we saw them gain national and regional attention 2 years ago despite that. Could be deja vu all over again. ;D     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 23, 2011, 02:01:32 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 23, 2011, 07:32:52 AM
    Nazareth gets the big upset as they take down #7 University of Rochester 82-64 Tuesday night.. Naz led from the opening whistle and grabbed a double digit 13-3 lead 4 minutes into the contest. Down 34-21, with 4 minutes left in the half, the Yellowjackets used an 8-0 spurt and got as close as five points, 34-29. Naz restored the lead to 11 however as they ended the half with back to back 3's to go into the break up 40-29. The Golden Flyers maintained a comfortable lead throughout most of the 2nd period, and any time Rochester cut the lead to single digits Naz would respond and pull away again. The foul parade started with 4 minutes left in the game as Nazareth would score 11 of their final 13 points from the line.

    Golden Flyers had 4 players hit double figures led by Jason Corletta with 24 points. Brad Ford had 15 pts along with 10 boards, while Phil Scaffidi and Tyshun Stephens both dropped in 14. John Dibartolomeo led Rochester with 15 pts. Chris Dende added 14 and Nate Vernon scored 12.
    Key stat of the game was 3 point shooting as Nazareth shot a whopping 61.9% (13x21) from beyond the arc. Ithaca was only 7 for 21 (33.3%). Both teams shot well from the field as they each fired up 54 shots apiece. Ithaca made 25 fg (46.3 %) while Naz made 27 for an even 50%. Naz hit 15x19 free throws (78.9 %) and the Bombers only connected on 7x13 (53.8 %) Rebounds were close as Naz had 31 boards to 30 for Ithaca and The Bombers turned the ball over 9 times to only 5 for Nazareth.

    If the Golden Flyers performance tonight is any indication of their play this season they could jump to the front of the pack as the team to beat in the E8. I wonder though if Medaille is that good or did the Golden Flyers have a bad day when the Mavericks beat Naz 75-64 last week. Is it possible little Medaille will once again be one of the top schools in the east region? If the NCAA did an early regional ranking based on results since opening day I think they'd have Medaille in the number 1 position right now. They certainly have a leg up, whether they can maintain it or not will be the question. Of course their schedule strength will come into play because of the low ranking of the AMCC among conferences, but we saw them gain national and regional attention 2 years ago despite that. Could be deja vu all over again. ;D   

    Wow...big win for Naz. That is impressive. I thought U of R would be too much for almost all East Region teams. If Naz can do that to U of R, they can beat any team in the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 23, 2011, 03:09:55 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 23, 2011, 07:32:52 AM
    Golden Flyers had 4 players hit double figures led by Jason Corletta with 24 points. Brad Ford had 15 pts along with 10 boards, while Phil Scaffidi and Tyshun Stephens both dropped in 14. John Dibartolomeo led Rochester with 15 pts. Chris Dende added 14 and Nate Vernon scored 12.
    Key stat of the game was 3 point shooting as Nazareth shot a whopping 61.9% (13x21) from beyond the arc. Ithaca was only 7 for 21 (33.3%). Both teams shot well from the field as they each fired up 54 shots apiece. Ithaca made 25 fg (46.3 %) while Naz made 27 for an even 50%. Naz hit 15x19 free throws (78.9 %) and the Bombers only connected on 7x13 (53.8 %) Rebounds were close as Naz had 31 boards to 30 for Ithaca and The Bombers turned the ball over 9 times to only 5 for Nazareth.

    If the Golden Flyers performance tonight is any indication of their play this season they could jump to the front of the pack as the team to beat in the E8. I wonder though if Medaille is that good or did the Golden Flyers have a bad day when the Mavericks beat Naz 75-64 last week. Is it possible little Medaille will once again be one of the top schools in the east region? If the NCAA did an early regional ranking based on results since opening day I think they'd have Medaille in the number 1 position right now. They certainly have a leg up, whether they can maintain it or not will be the question. Of course their schedule strength will come into play because of the low ranking of the AMCC among conferences, but we saw them gain national and regional attention 2 years ago despite that. Could be deja vu all over again. ;D   

       Magicman..your must be in FULL D3 mode right now! Oswego over Ithaca and then Fredonia over Ithaca and all that went with those  conversations about the bombers reecord (15 wins) and then right into Naz upset of  U of Rochester!! I can see where you might get those running into each other (see above)!!

    Gotta keep my eye on you until at least 1/21/12! ;)

    P. s. #1 in the East for me right now would be the Buffalo State BENGALS!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 23, 2011, 05:11:45 PM
    Bengalsrule,
    Thanks for correcting me. :-[ I was up most of the night and had dozed off when I was posting the summary of the Naz/Rochester game. Woke up and finished my post but somehow my foggy mind went from Rochester to Ithaca. ??? Glad you figured it out. ;D
    I made the changes in my original post but thanks to you and and sjfcards quoting me I'll look stupid forever. ::) I'll blame it on the birthday I had last week. Hope it's not a sign of things to come, but knowing you've got my back will keep me going. 8-) Also kept thinking about the 8 inches of snow that was falling all last night as I was posting and my truck with snowplow still in the repair shop. It was mid afternoon today before I finally got the farmer up the road to plow me out so I could get into my store. Aahh, the North Country.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 24, 2011, 09:10:55 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 23, 2011, 05:11:45 PM
    Bengalsrule,
    I'll blame it on the birthday I had last week. Hope it's not a sign of things to come, but knowing you've got my back will keep me going. 8-)

    No problem Magicman. I'm sure we all could see where you were going. Sometime ago I promised this nice guy who thinks very highly of you, ( I think his name was Gerry) ,  that I'd keep an eye out for you! ;). I know he'll be glad that I have your back!! ;)

    P.s. HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! ( 25th..26th birthday?????) :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 25, 2011, 06:51:19 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 24, 2011, 09:10:55 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 23, 2011, 05:11:45 PM
    Bengalsrule,
    I'll blame it on the birthday I had last week. Hope it's not a sign of things to come, but knowing you've got my back will keep me going. 8-)
    P.s. HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! ( 25th..26th birthday?????) :D

    I wish. I'd be happy if either of those 2 numbers were just doubled! :P
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 26, 2011, 03:53:27 PM
    Ithaca falls to 0-4 as they lose to Lebanon Valley 91-78. Ithaca had the lead at the break 44-40 and the Bombers were still up 56-55 with 15:34 left in the game. Lebanon Valley then went on a 20-7 run to open up a 12 point advantage 75-63 with 7:09 to go. Ithaca would close to within 5 on 3 separate occasions but the Flying Dutchmen went 6x6 from the line and outscored the Bombers 10-2 down the stretch to secure the win. Frank Mitchell with a double double of 27 points and 10 boards led 4 Bomber players in double figures. Andre Oztemel had 20 points, Marcus Jordan had 16 points and Sean Rossi had 10 points with 12 assists. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 26, 2011, 04:24:10 PM
    Does anyone know when the seedings for the Wendy's tournament are announced?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on November 26, 2011, 10:33:25 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 17, 2011, 08:57:02 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 17, 2011, 03:20:32 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on November 16, 2011, 09:08:09 PM
    Bombers opened the season last night with a major dud against Hobart, losing by 25+.  I didn't see the game but it appears there wasn't much defense played by the Bombers and apparently not much offense either.  I saw them play last week and the team looked decent, but not great, winning a scrimmage by 3.  Jordan Marcus needs to be their go-to guy this year and has an outside shot at breaking the all-time scoring record, assuming he has better days than yesterday.  Their bigs were solid but they will miss Barera, as most teams would if they lost an all-region player.  Their transfer from Rutgers didn't play much in the scrimmage and was a non-factor.

    Overall, they got off to a rough start but this team should be pretty good.  I don't know if they will reach 20 wins but they will be pretty good.  Need to be a lot better than yesterday.  Go Bombers.   

    What a disaster. So, I know I'm largely cynical on this board, but I don't see the Bombers doing better than 15 wins.

    They've got a great PG, but he's pass-first. The two biggest scorers are almost exclusively perimeter players. Where's the athletic slashing player who can get to the hoop like Rivas and Grier could? Can Christian Jordan really be expected to fill that role? Ithaca has no interior presence, as they were killed on the boards last night (-18)

    Defensively...ugh. Look, I'm sure Hobart was hot, but, in very rare cases does a team play good quality defense and contest shots and allow a team to shoot 63%/72%. This team does not have the horses to allow 90 points a game and win. Oztemel's too streaky, Jordan hasn't established himself on the offensive end yet, Mitchell's new to the system...and there isn't enough depth.

    Just for comparison's sake, the Bombers' scored 108 and 95 points against Hobart the last two years.

    This team has lost a ton of athleticism. Grier and Cruz were all over the floor and provided a nice balance to Marcus and Oztemel's outside gunning. And Barera outworked everyone getting up and down the court. Unless things change drastically, where are the wins coming from? You're closer to the program than me Bomber3, so I'll defer to your wisdom if you see things differently, but I see a return to the 15-10/14-11/13-12 squads of yesteryear
    I think they will be better than that.  You are right though that they will not have much of a defensive presence.  Ross, Oztemel and Marcus don't play much defense, which is a troubling thought.  That being said, they have a point guard that can contend for the all-time assist record and a shooter that can break the school's scoring record.  If Mullins can get them to rebound and defend a little, they will be just fine.  Your prediction is in the 13-15 win range.  Mine is in the 16-9/17-8/18-7 range.  We will see.
    Am I allowed a mulligan on this one?  Bombers off to an awful start as they move to 0-4 tonight.  Hopefully they are able to right the ship before conference play or else it might be a long season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on November 27, 2011, 10:18:34 AM
    Why hello boys, sorry for the long absence, life has caught up to me in the last year ha!  Anyway, been able to catch a couple of the Ducks games this year so I can provide your wonderful analysis of the only team on the other side of the Hudson river.

    Stevens is off to a 3-1 start, albeit against Division 5 level competition.  Only loss was to William Paterson in a game they led by as much as 23 in the second half, only to lose in Triple OT (get to that later).  Same cast of characters for the most part with Smith, Jones, Cutri and Thompson leading the way.  Those four are going to be a match up problem for anyone in the league this year because they can all score and they all do it differently.  From Smith to Thompson I see that whole group averaging between 17 - 11 points a game.  Stevens still shoots lights out, especially from Thomspon/Cutri and off the bench, and they have a couple bigs that can stretch the court as well.

    Problem, for the first time in a while, is that this Stevens team cannot guard anyone.  They put up 91 last night, but let a BAD Cal Tech team score 78.  The loss to William Paterson was a game in which they gave up triple digits.  They are slow on the perimeter and small inside.  The loss the Sabatino is going to hurt them quite a bit, as he could have been the inside presence.  As it is if a team has either a good post player and/or guards that can beat you off the dribble and finish at the rim then it will be easy to get Smith in foul trouble and once he's out they are a different team.

    My predictions: 
    19-6

    2 seed in E8 tourney

    Simon Smith E8 Co-Conference Player of the Year
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 27, 2011, 03:30:35 PM
    Ithaca gets into the win column. Defeats Otterbien by 10. Fear not Bomber3! ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 28, 2011, 01:49:34 PM
    I don't know what to make of the E8 this year. Down is up and up is down. Are we looking at a Naz, Hartwick, Stevens and Alfred top 4?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on November 28, 2011, 02:31:54 PM
    Considering Hartwick went to the dance last year, that they're at the top isn't too surprising. Although, they haven't won in very convincing fashion over so-so teams.

    Don't know much about the other teams, but should point out that none of Alfred's wins are over good teams.
    They beat Morrisville (1-3) 72-67, Penn Tech (0-6 and a USCAA school) 86-40 and Hilbert (1-4) 67-62 and lost to SUNY Old Westbury (1-2) 86-60.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 28, 2011, 07:44:22 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 26, 2011, 04:24:10 PM
    Does anyone know when the seedings for the Wendy's tournament are announced?

    Here if you haven't seen it yet.

    http://wendyscollegeclassic.com/men/Schedule-Results/schedule_results.aspx
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 28, 2011, 09:28:53 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 28, 2011, 07:44:22 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 26, 2011, 04:24:10 PM
    Does anyone know when the seedings for the Wendy's tournament are announced?

    Here if you haven't seen it yet.

    http://wendyscollegeclassic.com/men/Schedule-Results/schedule_results.aspx

    Thanks, I actually saw the bracket last night. Tough draw for Fisher to get Hobart in the first round, and a potential rematch with Brockport in the second round (either way). Fisher will have to do some work to get a couple of wins out of the tournament this year.

    I still don't know what to make of this Fisher team. At times I think they are going to be good, and at times, I think they are looking to scratch and claw to break .500. This week should tell me a lot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 29, 2011, 08:18:12 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 28, 2011, 09:28:53 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 28, 2011, 07:44:22 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 26, 2011, 04:24:10 PM
    Does anyone know when the seedings for the Wendy's tournament are announced?

    Here if you haven't seen it yet.

    http://wendyscollegeclassic.com/men/Schedule-Results/schedule_results.aspx



    Thanks, I actually saw the bracket last night. Tough draw for Fisher to get Hobart in the first round, and a potential rematch with Brockport in the second round (either way). Fisher will have to do some work to get a couple of wins out of the tournament this year.

    I still don't know what to make of this Fisher team. At times I think they are going to be good, and at times, I think they are looking to scratch and claw to break .500. This week should tell me a lot.

    Good to see Hobart back in the Wendy's/Chase/Whatever after a decade + away.  Bit of an upgrade for the tournament over Keuka.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 29, 2011, 10:59:57 PM
    Any Ithaca fans have a scouting report on Hobart? Fisher has them tomorrow night at 6, and I have no idea what to expect. I see they have won some games early, but that is about it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2011, 05:46:58 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 29, 2011, 10:59:57 PM
    Any Ithaca fans have a scouting report on Hobart? Fisher has them tomorrow night at 6, and I have no idea what to expect. I see they have won some games early, but that is about it.

    Saw them play against Cazenovia, a game they won in OT.  Coached by former UofR coach Mike Neer.  Good size, good shooters, average, at best, defenders.  Did not defend the 3 well against Caz.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 30, 2011, 08:19:04 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2011, 05:46:58 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 29, 2011, 10:59:57 PM
    Any Ithaca fans have a scouting report on Hobart? Fisher has them tomorrow night at 6, and I have no idea what to expect. I see they have won some games early, but that is about it.

    Saw them play against Cazenovia, a game they won in OT.  Coached by former UofR coach Mike Neer.  Good size, good shooters, average, at best, defenders.  Did not defend the 3 well against Caz.

    Mike Neer? Really. That guys is a heck of a coach. I thought he was retiring when he left U of R. Did he just get the itch again?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2011, 08:34:19 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 30, 2011, 08:19:04 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2011, 05:46:58 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 29, 2011, 10:59:57 PM
    Any Ithaca fans have a scouting report on Hobart? Fisher has them tomorrow night at 6, and I have no idea what to expect. I see they have won some games early, but that is about it.

    Saw them play against Cazenovia, a game they won in OT.  Coached by former UofR coach Mike Neer.  Good size, good shooters, average, at best, defenders.  Did not defend the 3 well against Caz.

    Mike Neer? Really. That guys is a heck of a coach. I thought he was retiring when he left U of R. Did he just get the itch again?

    Yeah I think he got a little burned out the last couple of years at Rochester and a year off may have helped.  It was interesting to see how he handled the Hobart kids.  To say they are not the type of player he normally coached at UofR is an understatement.  Not that they aren't good players, they are, but Rochester typically had back to the basket post players and guards who were tasked with getting them the ball at the expense of their offense.  Rarely did you see a big step outside.  He even took kids with little or no HS experience playing inside and made them back to the basket players.  Hobart doesn't seem to have the "pound you into submission" bigs, but if you let them set up without challenging them, they will score.  And they can step outside and shoot as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 30, 2011, 09:32:39 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2011, 08:34:19 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 30, 2011, 08:19:04 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2011, 05:46:58 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 29, 2011, 10:59:57 PM
    Any Ithaca fans have a scouting report on Hobart? Fisher has them tomorrow night at 6, and I have no idea what to expect. I see they have won some games early, but that is about it.

    Saw them play against Cazenovia, a game they won in OT.  Coached by former UofR coach Mike Neer.  Good size, good shooters, average, at best, defenders.  Did not defend the 3 well against Caz.

    Mike Neer? Really. That guys is a heck of a coach. I thought he was retiring when he left U of R. Did he just get the itch again?

    Yeah I think he got a little burned out the last couple of years at Rochester and a year off may have helped.  It was interesting to see how he handled the Hobart kids.  To say they are not the type of player he normally coached at UofR is an understatement.  Not that they aren't good players, they are, but Rochester typically had back to the basket post players and guards who were tasked with getting them the ball at the expense of their offense.  Rarely did you see a big step outside.  He even took kids with little or no HS experience playing inside and made them back to the basket players.  Hobart doesn't seem to have the "pound you into submission" bigs, but if you let them set up without challenging them, they will score.  And they can step outside and shoot as well.

    U of R always seemed to be big down low, and could get those guys the ball on almost every trip. I guess that is why they were always tough to beat. The thing about Neer is that he always had a lot of talent on his teams. Can he do the same at Hobart? I don't know if Hobart has the same commitment to winning Basketball games that U of R did.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2011, 09:37:48 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 30, 2011, 09:32:39 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2011, 08:34:19 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 30, 2011, 08:19:04 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2011, 05:46:58 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 29, 2011, 10:59:57 PM
    Any Ithaca fans have a scouting report on Hobart? Fisher has them tomorrow night at 6, and I have no idea what to expect. I see they have won some games early, but that is about it.

    Saw them play against Cazenovia, a game they won in OT.  Coached by former UofR coach Mike Neer.  Good size, good shooters, average, at best, defenders.  Did not defend the 3 well against Caz.

    Mike Neer? Really. That guys is a heck of a coach. I thought he was retiring when he left U of R. Did he just get the itch again?

    Yeah I think he got a little burned out the last couple of years at Rochester and a year off may have helped.  It was interesting to see how he handled the Hobart kids.  To say they are not the type of player he normally coached at UofR is an understatement.  Not that they aren't good players, they are, but Rochester typically had back to the basket post players and guards who were tasked with getting them the ball at the expense of their offense.  Rarely did you see a big step outside.  He even took kids with little or no HS experience playing inside and made them back to the basket players.  Hobart doesn't seem to have the "pound you into submission" bigs, but if you let them set up without challenging them, they will score.  And they can step outside and shoot as well.

    U of R always seemed to be big down low, and could get those guys the ball on almost every trip. I guess that is why they were always tough to beat. The thing about Neer is that he always had a lot of talent on his teams. Can he do the same at Hobart? I don't know if Hobart has the same commitment to winning Basketball games that U of R did.

    Yeah Rochester has a more "national" recruiting base I guess and I don't know if Hobart can do that.  Of course playing in Boston, NY Atlanta, Chicago, St. Louis Pittsburgh and Cleveland helps with recruiting and I don't see Hobart taking on that kind of travel schedule.  Playing the Bards, Vasser's and Cazenovia's of the world is quite a change but hopefully Neer enjoys it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 30, 2011, 02:01:18 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 29, 2011, 10:59:57 PM
    Any Ithaca fans have a scouting report on Hobart? Fisher has them tomorrow night at 6, and I have no idea what to expect. I see they have won some games early, but that is about it.

    They blew us out of the water and shot the lights out. Ithaca sucks this year, but it's worth noting that three of their other four losses have been by five points or less and they've held four of their last five opponents under 75 points. So I think they're legit on offense (scored 82 and 86 in their other two games this season)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 30, 2011, 09:24:42 PM
    Is the Ryan Kramer that played 7 meaningless minutes for Fisher against Hobart tonight the same Ryan Kramer that will be playing at UST Saturday?  If so, WTF?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 30, 2011, 10:08:53 PM
    Nazareth defeats RIT 72-66 and will have a rematch against U of R on Friday. RIT will move into the consolation bracket and will play Geneseo.

    Hobart easily handles St. John Fisher 83-58.

    Brockport downs Roberts Wesleyan 79-68. 

    Hobart will play Brockport on Friday and Fisher will face off against Wesleyan
           
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 01, 2011, 08:21:28 AM
    Quote from: magicman on November 30, 2011, 10:08:53 PM
    Nazareth defeats RIT 72-66 and will have a rematch against U of R on Friday. RIT will move into the consolation bracket and will play Geneseo.

    Hobart easily handles St. John Fisher 83-58.

    Brockport downs Roberts Wesleyan 79-68. 

    Hobart will play Brockport on Friday and Fisher will face off against Wesleyan
         

    Really a disappointing showing from Fisher. They were not even competitive. I can't seem to figure out what is wrong with Fisher, but those days at the top of the East Region, or at least close to it, seem like a 100 years ago.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 01, 2011, 04:23:22 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 01, 2011, 08:21:28 AM
    Quote from: magicman on November 30, 2011, 10:08:53 PM
    Nazareth defeats RIT 72-66 and will have a rematch against U of R on Friday. RIT will move into the consolation bracket and will play Geneseo.

    Hobart easily handles St. John Fisher 83-58.

    Brockport downs Roberts Wesleyan 79-68. 

    Hobart will play Brockport on Friday and Fisher will face off against Wesleyan
         

    Really a disappointing showing from Fisher. They were not even competitive. I can't seem to figure out what is wrong with Fisher, but those days at the top of the East Region, or at least close to it, seem like a 100 years ago.

    Have faith sjfcards, it's not every year you can reload, sometimes you have to rebuild. ;D I'm sure Kornaker will be back on top within a few years. Just look at the other Cardinals in NYS, my Plattsburgh State team. Won the conference 3 years in a row, 05-06, 06-07, 07-08. Then after losing all 5 starters, in 08-09 went 8-16 and came in 9th out of 10 teams. But a year later won it again in 09-10. Last year's team underachieved a bit and we finished in 3rd place, when we expected to repeat. This year's edition is a very young team, will probably finish in the middle of the pack but still fun to watch and on any given night, as U of R almost found out 2 weeks ago they can play with the best. The next several seasons though I expect them to be right back near the top.

    On the plus side for your Cardinals was a tough win against a good Brockport State team recently. And don't let Brockport's 1-3 start fool you, they'll be fighting for the SUNYAC title this year. Fisher, as I mentioned back in October, just doesn't have a lot of depth after losing those 3 solid freshmen from last year that didn't return. Not something a coach can plan for.  Norsen, Gettings and Wier are playing heavy minutes because of that. On the plus side, this year's frosh, Kinard and Lynch are getting plenty of court time and look like solid contirbutors down the road. There's only 1 senior on the team (Gettings), and next year, with a few more decent recruits, will probably find Fisher challenging for the conference championship once again. Who knows, as the current group gets to know each other better, (remember, 3 of the top 6 are newcomers) they may challenge this year. When Plattsburgh won the conference in 05-06, it was a young team that came in 6th during the regular season, but put it all together in the playoffs and won the tournament. That set them up for the threepeat.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 01, 2011, 04:48:42 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 01, 2011, 04:23:22 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 01, 2011, 08:21:28 AM
    Quote from: magicman on November 30, 2011, 10:08:53 PM
    Nazareth defeats RIT 72-66 and will have a rematch against U of R on Friday. RIT will move into the consolation bracket and will play Geneseo.

    Hobart easily handles St. John Fisher 83-58.

    Brockport downs Roberts Wesleyan 79-68. 

    Hobart will play Brockport on Friday and Fisher will face off against Wesleyan
         

    Really a disappointing showing from Fisher. They were not even competitive. I can't seem to figure out what is wrong with Fisher, but those days at the top of the East Region, or at least close to it, seem like a 100 years ago.

    Have faith sjfcards, it's not every year you can reload, sometimes you have to rebuild. ;D I'm sure Kornaker will be back on top within a few years. Just look at the other Cardinals in NYS, my Plattsburgh State team. Won the conference 3 years in a row, 05-06, 06-07, 07-08. Then after losing all 5 starters, in 08-09 went 8-16 and came in 9th out of 10 teams. But a year later won it again in 09-10. Last year's team underachieved a bit and we finished in 3rd place, when we expected to repeat. This year's edition is a very young team, will probably finish in the middle of the pack but still fun to watch and on any given night, as U of R almost found out 2 weeks ago they can play with the best. The next several seasons though I expect them to be right back near the top.

    On the plus side for your Cardinals was a tough win against a good Brockport State team recently. And don't let Brockport's 1-3 start fool you, they'll be fighting for the SUNYAC title this year. Fisher, as I mentioned back in October, just doesn't have a lot of depth after losing those 3 solid freshmen from last year that didn't return. Not something a coach can plan for.  Norsen, Gettings and Wier are playing heavy minutes because of that. On the plus side, this year's frosh, Kinard and Lynch are getting plenty of court time and look like solid contirbutors down the road. There's only 1 senior on the team (Gettings), and next year, with a few more decent recruits, will probably find Fisher challenging for the conference championship once again. Who knows, as the current group gets to know each other better, (remember, 3 of the top 6 are newcomers) they may challenge this year. When Plattsburgh won the conference in 05-06, it was a young team that came in 6th during the regular season, but put it all together in the playoffs and won the tournament. That set them up for the threepeat.   

    The one thing I can point to for Fisher's issues is some key departures that were not expected. Connor Henderson, Ozell Franklin, Brent Harder, etc. Those players were supposed to play big minutes, and do a lot of the scoring, but were all lost for one reason or another.

    Every year I think Fisher has brought in a lot of talent (Harder last year) but they haven't seemed to be able to put it all together for a few years. Hopefully this years group is just young, and young players will be up and down on any given night. I still think Kornaker is a great coach, and can get them back to the top of the East Region.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 02, 2011, 09:07:29 PM
    Scores so far from todays Wendy 's Classic.

    Brockport loses a tough one at the buzzer to Hobart 71-70.

    Geneseo quickly in front of RIT by double digits, up by 17 at the half and coast to an 81-67 win
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 02, 2011, 11:26:44 PM
    Nazareth beats Rochester for the 3rd straight time (dating back to last year's Wendy's Classic) by a score of 66-64. Nazareth will move on to play Hobart for the Championship tomorrow evening at 8 PM at RIT's Clark Gym

    Naz trailed for most of the 1st half but closed to within 2 at 31-29 with 1:27 left in the period. Yellowjackets had a layup, a trey, and a layup, to close out the half with a 38-29 lead. The Golden Flyers chipped away at that 9 pt deficit and finally regained the lead at 51-50 on 4 straight points by Tyshun Stephens with 11:19 to play. 6 more lead changes would occur until Naz forged ahead for good at the 4:13 mark again on 4 straight points by Stephens to make it 62-61. A jumper by Greg Lothridge, followed by another basket by Stephens made it 66-61. UR could only manage a free throw and a bucket with 13 ticks left to make it 66-64. They did foul immediately after the made basket and the Naz missed the front end of a 1&1. Rochester got the rebound came down and  Dibartolomeo missed a jumper, UR got the rebound and Nate Vernon missed at the buzzer.

    Nazareth moves to 5-2 and Rochester drops to 5-2.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 03, 2011, 12:32:03 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 02, 2011, 11:26:44 PM
    Nazareth beats Rochester for the 3rd straight time (dating back to last year's Wendy's Classic) by a score of 66-64. Nazareth will move on to play Hobart for the Championship tomorrow evening at 8 PM at RIT's Clark Gym

    Naz trailed for most of the 1st half but closed to within 2 at 31-29 with 1:27 left in the period. Yellowjackets had a layup, a trey, and a layup, to close out the half with a 38-29 lead. The Golden Flyers chipped away at that 9 pt deficit and finally regained the lead at 51-50 on 4 straight points by Tyshun Stephens with 11:19 to play. 6 more lead changes would occur until Naz forged ahead for good at the 4:13 mark again on 4 straight points by Stephens to make it 62-61. A jumper by Greg Lothridge, followed by another basket by Stephens made it 66-61. UR could only manage a free throw and a bucket with 13 ticks left to make it 66-64. They did foul immediately after the made basket and the Naz missed the front end of a 1&1. Rochester got the rebound came down and  Dibartolomeo missed a jumper, UR got the rebound and Nate Vernon missed at the buzzer.

    Nazareth moves to 5-2 and Rochester drops to 5-2.

    What is it about Naz that gives U of R fits? This has dated back longer than the last few times they have played. Jimmy Evans led Naz over Rochester at least once in the Chase Championship a few years back, and it seems like Naz is always a tough out for U of R.
    What about that match up causes that?

    p.s. apparently Hobart is a lot better than I thought. That Mike Neer can flat out coach.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 04, 2011, 08:13:56 PM
    Glad to see Fisher was able to beat Geneseo to get 2 wins out of the Wendy's Tournament. I am hoping that this can set up the rest of their season. They have 3 winnable games coming up before conference play, and if they can get to 7-3 going into conference play, they typically play well within conference.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 05, 2011, 06:41:30 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 03, 2011, 12:32:03 PM
    p.s. apparently Hobart is a lot better than I thought. That Mike Neer can flat out coach.

    Hobart has probably been overlooked a bit this season, what with U of R, Buffalo State and Oswego State all being ranked in the D3 Top 25 poll. Even Hartwick has been ranked ahead of them getting 12 votes in the ORV category to a solitary nod for the Statesmen. But Hobart returned a lot of firepower from a 21-7 team that should have went dancing last year. They got upset in the Liberty League tournament and failed to get an at large bid. They did finish their season on a winning note however, as they won the downstate ECAC tournament and coupled with a 6-0 start this year have an 8 game winning streak. They may very well end up being the #1 team in the Regional rankings when it's all said and done. With wins over Ithaca, Fisher, Brockport and now Nazareth to claim the Wendy's title they can't be accused of padding their out of conference schedule with cupcakes. Another big regional contest is coming up this Saturday when they host Rochester at 4 PM.
    They are led by 6'6" sr. forward Matt Pebole, a 1st team NABC All Region and Liberty League 1st team All Conference performer last year (15.8 ppg, 5.6 rpg), this year he is putting up 15.8 ppg and 9.2 rpg. He has a chance to finish as Hobart's all time leading scorer.  Close behind Pebole is 5'10" jr guard Stefan Thompson with 15.0  ppg, 4.5 apg,and 3.5 rpg. Completing their triple threat is 6'5" soph forward Rich Bonney with 11.2 ppg and 5.8 rpg.  Their starting lineup is rounded out by 6'4" soph guard Joe Gibbons and 6'2" sr guard Greg Stern both averaging around 8 ppg. They feature a solid 10 man rotation and now of course, have long time Rochester coach Mike Neer at the helm. Will be interesting Saturday as Neer goes up against his old club for the first time since his departure from U of R. I think Hobart will win a close one here.     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 08, 2011, 08:25:35 AM
    Kind of slow on here. How about this...Fisher will win the E8 this year?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 08, 2011, 08:57:29 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 08, 2011, 08:25:35 AM
    Kind of slow on here. How about this...Fisher will win the E8 this year?

    Hard to argue with that.  Which is kinda sad in a way.....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 08, 2011, 06:09:41 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 08, 2011, 08:25:35 AM
    Kind of slow on here. How about this...Fisher will win the E8 this year?

    They probably have as good a chance as anyone. Thought Naz might be the dominant team with 2 big wins over U of R, but after a loss to 1-6 Roberts Wesleyan, kinda makes you wonder. Hartwick will certainly be in the mix but no team seems to be a heavy favorite.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 08, 2011, 08:36:20 PM
    I would say at this point that Hartwick has to be the favorite. Is the rise of Hartwick due to the vast improvement of that program, or the lowering of the bar from the rest of the conference? Fisher and Ithaca have come back to the pack, and I think that has opened the door for Hartwick.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jdex on December 08, 2011, 10:15:22 PM

    Hartwick moves to 7-0 though not exactly impressive in beating crosstown rival Oneonta 57-51 -- a 1-6 Oneonta squad that led 38-28 at half. Wick went ahead 52-51 with 2:42 to play. Oneonta scored its final basket at 9:08 for 49-42 lead. Hawks J. Suderley 17 pts, C. Ryder 13 pts. Wick 20x49fg, 5x14 3s, 12x20ft. OSt holds 38-34 reb edge
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 09, 2011, 04:58:55 PM
    Quote from: jdex on December 08, 2011, 10:15:22 PM

    Hartwick moves to 7-0 though not exactly impressive in beating crosstown rival Oneonta 57-51 -- a 1-6 Oneonta squad that led 38-28 at half. Wick went ahead 52-51 with 2:42 to play. Oneonta scored its final basket at 9:08 for 49-42 lead. Hawks J. Suderley 17 pts, C. Ryder 13 pts. Wick 20x49fg, 5x14 3s, 12x20ft. OSt holds 38-34 reb edge

    How is the atmosphere at a Hartwick/SUNY Oneonta game? Is it comparable to Fisher Naz or some of the other big rivalries ?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 09, 2011, 07:01:36 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 09, 2011, 04:58:55 PM
    Quote from: jdex on December 08, 2011, 10:15:22 PM

    Hartwick moves to 7-0 though not exactly impressive in beating crosstown rival Oneonta 57-51 -- a 1-6 Oneonta squad that led 38-28 at half. Wick went ahead 52-51 with 2:42 to play. Oneonta scored its final basket at 9:08 for 49-42 lead. Hawks J. Suderley 17 pts, C. Ryder 13 pts. Wick 20x49fg, 5x14 3s, 12x20ft. OSt holds 38-34 reb edge

    How is the atmosphere at a Hartwick/SUNY Oneonta game? Is it comparable to Fisher Naz or some of the other big rivalries ?

    You're asking that question from a guy who's sitting on a beach down in Florida. ;D And may never have attended a Hartwick-Oneonta game.(Well, maybe 10 or 12 years ago) But he'll tell you all you want to know about the Cortland-Ithaca rivalry.

    Box score says there was 275 people in attendance so I don't think it was a Cameron Crazy atmosphere.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jdex on December 09, 2011, 08:44:37 PM

    Ya got that right on all counts!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3fan33 on December 10, 2011, 07:09:50 AM
    While it is no Cameron Indoor, having been in the gym more half a dozen times for the Hartwick/Oneonta game I can say two things the first is that the game no matter the talent on either team is almost always a possession or two game in either direction and second is that 275 in that gym is pretty good in terms of environment. Having also been to games at both Fisher and Naz this game would compare.

    Additionally, this Hartwick team is pretty talented and they have revived a program there that up until 1996 had as much tradition in basketball as anyone else in the league. Any league is going to have some ebb and flow with regard to who makes a run at the top for the most part, but at the division III level it might be surprising to people that having the support of the administration outside of the athletic department really makes a difference. You need to be able to attract a couple of players and if you can manage to steal some games here or there and get lucky with a couple of recruits it can change pretty quickly; and that goes for the winning or losing. Hartwick has made some significant physical improvements and bought into the idea that basketball is a sport they can be successful in. But at every level all of basketball it doesn't take much to find yourself fighting again to get back to the top, if as a coach you miss on the abilities of some recruits or have injuries it creates issues.

    The league might be down but the three guys Hartwick has right now in Blazek, Sudderly, and Ryder are as good as many of the best the league has seen in recent years and more importantly really good as a group. This Hartwick team is also deep and they don't quit have been down in a few games this year late and made runs to close out a win. It isn't like they have played a UAA schedule recently but to run off 9-0 to start isn't so bad including a win against a Union team that is probably better than people think.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 10, 2011, 07:13:17 AM
    Nice win by Ithaca College last night over an undefeated 6-0  New Jersey City on a neutral court. The Gothic Knights were an NCAA tournament team last year and are expected to once again challenge for the NJAC crown. Ithaca beat the Knights 78-73 and will now face host Juniata in the championship game of their Doc Green tournament at 4 PM this afternoon.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 10, 2011, 09:41:19 AM
    Welcome aboard d3fan33. I see that was your 1st post. Hope you return often to keep us informed about your Hawks. They are off to a good start and while you are correct about their schedule not being the strongest, they've played some teams that were certainly capable of an upset. Good wins over Brooklyn (who handled St. John Fisher), Union, and a Wells team that was certainly no pushover ( NCAA team last year and battled Oswego St. down to the wire). All 4 of Wells' losses have been to quality teams. The Elms team they beat  last night isn't a pushover either as they own a win over a good Springfield team. Hartwick's trio of Blazek, Ryder, and Sudderly are taking up right where they left off last year. The Hawks returned just about everyone from last year's E8 championship team, including all 5 starters, and 9 of the top ten in their rotation. Certainly no one in the conference returned more veterans than the Hawks. The E8 title is their's for the taking but as we've seen in past years no favorite is truly safe in the E8. There's a good chance the Hawks will extend their unbeaten streak to 13-0 before a big showdown with Ithaca on January 13th at the Binder Center. Not sure if they will climb into the Top 25 by then but should certainly keep receiving more and more points as that unbeaten streak grows.
    Personally, I think they will win the conference, but should they get upset in the E8 tourney their resume could still net them an invitation to the dance with a pool C bid. Good luck with your Hawks and let me be the first to give you some karma points.     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 10, 2011, 02:38:30 PM
    Fisher looked sluggish today but made the plays down the stretch to beat Worcester State by 5. Not a real inspiring win, but a win none the less. Fisher improves to 5-3.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3fan33 on December 11, 2011, 08:59:39 AM
    Magic - thanks for the karma. Well the league always is competitive no matter how things look up to league play. It always benefits the league come postseason time if they fair well outside the conference. As we have seen in recent years with teams from the E8 getting a Pool C bid.

    A great win for Ithaca against New Jersey City, saw that team play last year in the NCAA Tournament and there transition play is strong. Congrats to Fisher on a win against Worcester State.

    Looking forward to conference tipping off everyone knows each other so well it should be a good year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 12, 2011, 01:40:38 PM
    Quote from: d3fan33 on December 11, 2011, 08:59:39 AM
    Magic - thanks for the karma. Well the league always is competitive no matter how things look up to league play. It always benefits the league come postseason time if they fair well outside the conference. As we have seen in recent years with teams from the E8 getting a Pool C bid.

    A great win for Ithaca against New Jersey City, saw that team play last year in the NCAA Tournament and there transition play is strong. Congrats to Fisher on a win against Worcester State.

    Looking forward to conference tipping off everyone knows each other so well it should be a good year.

    Let's hope so. I don't know if it is just because Fisher has not been as good, but the last few seasons in the E8 have not seemed all that great to me. Even the year Fisher and Naz played in the finals was sort of an EH year for me.

    I think the evidence is in the lower number of posts and posters on the E8 board we are currently on.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 12, 2011, 05:52:48 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 12, 2011, 01:40:38 PM
    I think the evidence is in the lower number of posts and posters on the E8 board we are currently on.

    You're correct on that statement. Not many Fisher fans on here other than you and occasionally Fisher91 (I think that's his handle). The RIT poster isn't around because RIT isn't around. The Ithaca guys have pretty much disappeared as well. I guess they're waiting for something to cheer about. And there's never been many posters from the other E8 schools. Still don't think the Bombers are as bad as their record indicates and they'll put some W's on the board. Beating New Jersey City the other night was huge. I follow all three leagues in NYS extensively as well as those in other parts of the country. I don't have an allegience to any particular E8 team (the Plattsburgh State Cardinals are my home team), I just like good D3 basketball. I've been a voter on the weekly Top 25 Poster's Poll for the past few years and I'm a participant in the National Pick 'Em League as well, so you really get to know what's happening all over the D3 world, not just locally. After the regular season ends, a group of us from all over the country, participate in the NCAA Fantasy League, where we draft players from all the playoff teams, to form our own teams. You have to know your schools if you want to be competetive in that league, so all season long it's watching as many games, either live or on sreaming video, as time allows. It's fun and helps pass the time during our often brutal  north country winters.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 12, 2011, 06:56:09 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 12, 2011, 01:40:38 PM
    Quote from: d3fan33 on December 11, 2011, 08:59:39 AM
    Magic - thanks for the karma. Well the league always is competitive no matter how things look up to league play. It always benefits the league come postseason time if they fair well outside the conference. As we have seen in recent years with teams from the E8 getting a Pool C bid.

    A great win for Ithaca against New Jersey City, saw that team play last year in the NCAA Tournament and there transition play is strong. Congrats to Fisher on a win against Worcester State.

    Looking forward to conference tipping off everyone knows each other so well it should be a good year.

    Let's hope so. I don't know if it is just because Fisher has not been as good, but the last few seasons in the E8 have not seemed all that great to me. Even the year Fisher and Naz played in the finals was sort of an EH year for me.

    I think the evidence is in the lower number of posts and posters on the E8 board we are currently on.

    I check the board a couple of times a day, even though I don't have any particular interest in the E8.  Other than they are the "local" league and UofR plays them on a regular basis.  Plus every so often a kid I know shows up on a roster.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 13, 2011, 03:06:42 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on December 12, 2011, 06:56:09 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 12, 2011, 01:40:38 PM
    Quote from: d3fan33 on December 11, 2011, 08:59:39 AM
    Magic - thanks for the karma. Well the league always is competitive no matter how things look up to league play. It always benefits the league come postseason time if they fair well outside the conference. As we have seen in recent years with teams from the E8 getting a Pool C bid.

    A great win for Ithaca against New Jersey City, saw that team play last year in the NCAA Tournament and there transition play is strong. Congrats to Fisher on a win against Worcester State.

    Looking forward to conference tipping off everyone knows each other so well it should be a good year.

    Let's hope so. I don't know if it is just because Fisher has not been as good, but the last few seasons in the E8 have not seemed all that great to me. Even the year Fisher and Naz played in the finals was sort of an EH year for me.

    I think the evidence is in the lower number of posts and posters on the E8 board we are currently on.

    I check the board a couple of times a day, even though I don't have any particular interest in the E8.  Other than they are the "local" league and UofR plays them on a regular basis.  Plus every so often a kid I know shows up on a roster.

    Right, and I think that is more the norm now. I used to get on after a game and there would be a page or two to catch up on. I have to be honest, posting is one of the reasons I follow D3 sports. I like the conversation around the game as much as the game itself.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 15, 2011, 03:46:58 PM
    The problem is there's so little give and take. I mean, I could talk about Ithaca's issues (Although really, they could easily have 3 more wins) but since none of you guys have probably seen them (nothing wrong with that, since I haven't seen any of your teams either) there's little you can add (and vice versa)

    I used to post on the women's board, but for like, three weeks, literally, there was no-one else posting. So what's the point? I don't think we've reached that critical (lack of) mass yet, but we're getting there.

    I was surprised however. Sean Rossi had 17 assists in a game, is averaging 8.3 per game, and FROMAFAR didn't chime in about how they're too easy to matter and probably inflated. It's a shame
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 16, 2011, 03:06:23 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 15, 2011, 03:46:58 PM
    I was surprised however. Sean Rossi had 17 assists in a game, is averaging 8.3 per game, and FROMAFAR didn't chime in about how they're too easy to matter and probably inflated. It's a shame

    Ahh, the good old days...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 17, 2011, 09:28:30 PM
    Nazareth loses a tough one on the road at New Jersey City, 63-60. The Golden Flyers held a 51-44 advantage with 5:20 left to play but a 10-2 run by the Gothic Knights gave them a 54-53 edge with 2:48 to play. 2 free throws and a driving layup gave a 3 pt. lead back to Naz with  1:46 remaining but a basket and 1 by the Knights tied it up again at 57. Knights regain the lead for good on another drive to the hoop and after Naz misses a 3 point attempt with 26 seconds left they are forced to foul. New Jersey makes them both for a 4 pt lead and Naz's Jason Corletta hits a triple with 16 ticks remaining  to make it 61-60. Naz fouls immediately and New Jersey makes them both. Naz comes down and Brad Ford, under pressure, gets off a decent attempt that rims out at the buzzer.  New Jersey was 9x9 from the line in the final 4:53 of the game. Jason Corletta led the Flyers with 17. Tyshun Stephens had 13 and Brad Ford had 10. New Jersey City is now 9-1 with their sole loss coming at the hands of Ithaca.

    Naz loses their 3rd in a row and falls to 5-4. Their next game is January 4th when they travel to Cortland to take on the Red Dragons at 7 PM.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 17, 2011, 09:34:09 PM
    Ithaca loses to La Roche 80-77 and falls to 3-7 on the year. They are now off until December 30th when they travel to Wells for a 4 PM contest.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 20, 2011, 12:58:56 PM
    Statistics just came out and the Ducks' Simon Smith is #1 in the nation in Double-Doubles and #4 in rebounding.  I originally predicted him as co-conference player of the year but if he finishes top 5 in those two categories it's hard to see anyone that would split the award with him, as it probably would coincide with the Ducks winning quite a few games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on December 21, 2011, 10:36:36 AM
    Things tend to heat up at least a little in January. Just don't give up, or better yet, spread the word...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 24, 2011, 10:14:28 PM
    Merry Christmas to all of the E8 posters!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 25, 2011, 06:08:51 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 24, 2011, 10:14:28 PM
    Merry Christmas to all of the E8 posters!

    And to you as well!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 27, 2011, 09:13:30 AM
    Quote from: magicman on December 12, 2011, 05:52:48 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 12, 2011, 01:40:38 PM
    I think the evidence is in the lower number of posts and posters on the E8 board we are currently on.

    You're correct on that statement. Not many Fisher fans on here other than you and occasionally Fisher91 (I think that's his handle). The RIT poster isn't around because RIT isn't around. The Ithaca guys have pretty much disappeared as well. I guess they're waiting for something to cheer about. And there's never been many posters from the other E8 schools. Still don't think the Bombers are as bad as their record indicates and they'll put some W's on the board. Beating New Jersey City the other night was huge. I follow all three leagues in NYS extensively as well as those in other parts of the country. I don't have an allegience to any particular E8 team (the Plattsburgh State Cardinals are my home team), I just like good D3 basketball. I've been a voter on the weekly Top 25 Poster's Poll for the past few years and I'm a participant in the National Pick 'Em League as well, so you really get to know what's happening all over the D3 world, not just locally. After the regular season ends, a group of us from all over the country, participate in the NCAA Fantasy League, where we draft players from all the playoff teams, to form our own teams. You have to know your schools if you want to be competetive in that league, so all season long it's watching as many games, either live or on sreaming video, as time allows. It's fun and helps pass the time during our often brutal  north country winters.
    Magic is right- I hop on only onow and then.  I enjoyed the games when I was a student 20 + years ago, but not living in the Roch area makes it tough to catch a game...Much more of a football guy....I am kinda meh on this season for Fisher. Here is hoping they right the ship. This is a good program, but seems to have a VERY TOUGH time keeping talent....I dont know if its Academics, homesickness or what but you cant lose starters at that rate and hope to keep consistent.  Happy Holidays Everyone!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 29, 2011, 02:21:09 AM
    Hartwick, behind a 34 point, 12 rebound night from Jared Suderley easily disposes of Delaware Valley 82-68. The Hawks remain undefeated as they move to 10-0 on the year. Chris Ryder also has a double double with 15 pts and 10 boards.
    Hartwick will now face Penn State-Abington, who defeated host York (Pa,) 83-73 Wednesday, for the championship of the Coaches vs Cancer tournament on Thursday afternoon at 3 PM.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 29, 2011, 10:37:36 PM
    Hartwick wins the Coaches vs Cancer Tournamnet at York (Pa.) by defeating Penn State-Abington 104-90. The Hawks were once again led by Jared Suderley with 28 points (9x12 fg, 2x2 3's, 8x8 ft) and 8 rebounds. Andres Carpio had 17 pts, Mark Blazek had 15 pts and Aaron Laing added 13 pts. Hartwick struggled a bit in the early going and found themselves down 27-20 with 10 minutes left in the first period. The Hawks then caught fire and used a 16-3 run to grab a 36-30 advantage with 4:25 left in the period. The Nittany Lions came back to tie it at 44 going into the break. Hartwick opened the 2nd half on a 10-2 run and never lost the lead from that point on.

    I don't know who the tournament's MVP award went to but it had to be Suderley. His stats for the 2 tournament games are worthy of D3hoops Team of the Week  consideration. Here they are:
    62 points (22x34 field goals 64.7%,  5x7 threes 71.4%,  13x15 free throws 86.6%) 20 rebounds, and 6 assists. 9 of his 20 rebounds came on the offensive end.

    Modified at 10:56: Hartwick's website has a write-up on the tournamnet and Suderley was named the MVP. Andres Carpio was also named to the All Tournament Team. Don't know for sure but Hartwick's 11-0 start may be the best in the school's history. Hartwick is now off until January 6th when they open up E8 conference play on the road at Elmira.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 30, 2011, 03:55:01 PM
    St. John Fisher leads Dickinson 36-20 at the half. Thad Weir with 12 and Optimystik Kinard with 11 to lead the Cardinals.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 30, 2011, 05:00:14 PM
    Fisher hangs on to beat Dickinson 78-70. The Cardinals were up by 15 to 20 points throughout much of the 2nd half. Up 68-50 with 2:32 to go, Fisher committed turnovers on 3 straight possessions that allowed the Red Devils to cut the lead to 9, at 68-59, with 1:42 to go. Dickinson had to foul and the Cardinals went 8 for 8 from the line to secure the win. Thad Wier with 25 pts and Optimystik Kinard with 16 pts led the way. Jason Norsen had 8 pts, 7 boards and 5 blocks, while Justin Plata added 15 pts. Cardinals improve to 8-3 and will take on New Paltz State in their next game on Jan. 3rd. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 30, 2011, 05:55:03 PM
    Ithaca loses another close one as they fall at Wells 73-72. Ithaca had a chance to send the game into overtime when they went to the line with 1 second left, down 73-71. Ithaca player made the 1st but missed the second and Wells corraled the rebound to end it. Bombers had a 68-61 lead with 7:21 left to play but were outscored 12-4 from that point on. Jordan Marcus with 23 pts to lead Ithaca, while Frank Mitchell scored 15 pts with 5 rebounds. Sean Rossi had 9 pts, 16 assists 4 rebounds and 2 steals.  Terry Harrison had a huge game for Wells with 28 pts and 16 boards.

    Ithaca falls to 3-8 for the year and will next face conference rival St John Fisher on January 6th at Ithaca. Six of the Bombers 8 losses have been by a total of 16 points. They've lost by 3,5,1,3,3,and 1. With a little luck in some of those games they could just as easily be sporting an 8-3 or 7-4 record.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 31, 2011, 08:43:34 AM
    Decent win by the alma mater.
    Dickenson was a good test....
    That said.....Is this Fisher team one on the rise or just a flash in the pan?
    I still see a team that got monkey stomped by 'Bart.....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 01, 2012, 05:07:16 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 30, 2011, 05:55:03 PM


    Ithaca falls to 3-8 for the year and will next face conference rival St John Fisher on January 6th at Ithaca. Six of the Bombers 8 losses have been by a total of 16 points. They've lost by 3,5,1,3,3,and 1. With a little luck in some of those games they could just as easily be sporting an 8-3 or 7-4 record.

    Yeah, but then we'd be saying they were 8-3, but six of their wins have been by 1,2,3,5,2 and 1...

    Look, you are your record. The Bombers are 3-8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 02, 2012, 08:06:16 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 31, 2011, 08:43:34 AM
    Decent win by the alma mater.
    Dickenson was a good test....
    That said.....Is this Fisher team one on the rise or just a flash in the pan?
    I still see a team that got monkey stomped by 'Bart.....

    I think they are better than last years team, but they are very young and will be up and down a lot this year. I am excited about some of the young talent that they have this year, and Kornaker's teams typically are much better at the end of the year than wherever they start.

    I think this fisher team has as good a shot as any to get into the E8 tournament this year, and they have a shot at a home game in the tournament. An at large bid is probably out this year, especially with the slow start, but they do have enough talent to win a lot in the league.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 06, 2012, 10:26:23 PM
    Great, great win by the Bombers tonight. Playing without Jordan Marcus, who was averaging 14.5 PPG, and with a hobbled Andrei Oztemel (15.5 PPG) only able to play 13 minutes, the Bombers beat St. John Fisher 71-65. Frank Mitchell with 24, and Christian Jordan goes for 17 and hits big shots all night.Adam Ambeielli hits four three pointers for Fisher, but it isn't enough.

    Season started tonight for the Bombers, and that was a statement win in my book. Cardinals led for most of the game, but Ithaca hung around all night. Down 63-60 with 4:23 to go, Ithaca doesn't allow another point until Fisher hits a meaningless layup with three seconds to go.

    Thought the game turned with 2:36 to go. Game tied at 63, Plata missed the front end of a one and one and Sean Rossi hit a layup on the other end. Till that point, Fisher answered every Ithaca burst with one of their own, but the Bombers got the stops. Great IC win
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 06, 2012, 11:10:04 PM
    Strange game by the Wick tonight. 11-0, at 0-10 Elmira and they only win by 11? That doesn't bode well for later in the conference season. One thing that struck me: In 56 minutes, the Wick bench scored zero points. That's not good.

    Random question: Is Mark Blazek 35? How long has he been at Hartwick, a decade? Seriously, he feels like one of "those guys"
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 07, 2012, 04:42:03 PM
    St John Fisher leads Utica College 33-26 at the half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 07, 2012, 05:50:21 PM
    St John Fisher defeats Utica college 72-60. Jordan Gettings with 22 points, David Lynch with 14, Grant Wrap with 11, and Justin Plata with 10. No Jason Norsen for the Cardinals .

    Utica was led by Aaron Nevins with 15, Jeff Ward with 14, Matt Baldwin with 11 and Reggie German with 10.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 07, 2012, 07:31:28 PM
    Saxons come from behind in second half to hand Hartwick its first loss of the season, 72-66.
    AU now 8-3 on the season, 1-1 in Empire 8 play, while Hawks drop to 12-1, 1-1 in Empire 8.

    http://saxons.alfred.edu/stats/1593.htm


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 07, 2012, 07:35:32 PM
    Alfred, with perhaps the upset of the season in the E8 topples 12-0 Hartwick from the undefeated ranks, as the Saxons ground the Hawks 72-66. Alfred gets a huge game from Josh Parker with 32 points.

    Somewhere Pep  is smiling. :)


    It looks like I spoke too late. Congratulations Pep.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 07, 2012, 08:40:09 PM
    Meanwhile, Ithaca improves to 2-0 in conference. Bombers a sleeper?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3fan33 on January 09, 2012, 12:32:24 PM
    Bombers - Blazek is 14 and Ryder is 35, Blazek was actually injured for a large part of last season so he did not play as integral a role. I can remember feeling the same way about some of the Fisher teams back in the early 2000's with some of their players seemed like they had been there six years of course not the case.

    The Empire 8 will be close no matter what, very few years irregardless of non conference success I can't remember too many years where teams ran away with the league. As a wick fan I will be pleased with a road split most weekends as long as you can take care of business at home. Playing back to back will always create interesting games on Saturdays.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 09, 2012, 02:26:21 PM
    Hey Bomber I'm still here, and your right Rossi's 17 were inflated.  Just kidding, I am not really following the E-8 that closely since I don't have an AX anymore. Looks Liek Hartwick is tough BUT gets a loss when the league started. IC will be in the mix no matter what their out of league record was. Stevens could be real tough as Smith is at his peak.  They don't look real Deep and that can play into it late in the season. Sheldon Jones does it night after night, Cutri can burn you at any time, and Thompson, plays steady, he's no Greco defensively or has his swagger, but works well with what the coach is looking for. What happened to PEP, I have a bad vibe from some of the posts. Is he OK?

    I'll be around now and then----    Love the E-8....BUT WHAT DO I KNOW?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 09, 2012, 09:06:37 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 09, 2012, 02:26:21 PM
    Hey Bomber I'm still here, and your right Rossi's 17 were inflated.  Just kidding, I am not really following the E-8 that closely since I don't have an AX anymore. Looks Liek Hartwick is tough BUT gets a loss when the league started. IC will be in the mix no matter what their out of league record was. Stevens could be real tough as Smith is at his peak.  They don't look real Deep and that can play into it late in the season. Sheldon Jones does it night after night, Cutri can burn you at any time, and Thompson, plays steady, he's no Greco defensively or has his swagger, but works well with what the coach is looking for. What happened to PEP, I have a bad vibe from some of the posts. Is he OK?

    I'll be around now and then----    Love the E-8....BUT WHAT DO I KNOW?

    Pep's got nothing but good vibrations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCeD_6Y3GQc) except maybe bummed that he caught the Saxons' loss to Stevens Friday night, but missed the game with Josh Parker lighting it up against Hartwick. Parker joined Pep on a Habitat Spring Break Trip a couple years ago. Good kid.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 10, 2012, 01:34:25 PM
    I haven't been on for a while but I was at the Fisher/IC game last friday night and I had some thoughts on those two teams.

    IC is not as bad as their record suggests. They didn't overwhelm me with athletic ability or precision but they were better on defense than years past, and they did enough to win down the stretch. They called a timeout with like 4 minutes left, and IC dominated from that moment on.

    Fisher was hampered by the loss of Norsen. They had no inside threat in the second half, and they were just searching for an answer on the offensive end. They never really found it, but in the first half with Norsen they were a much better team.

    I think Fisher was the better team with Norsen in the game, but Fisher is not deep enough to lose players and keep winning.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FROMAFAR on January 10, 2012, 01:55:54 PM
    Hey PEP good hearing from you....... FROMAFAR misses the the board.... I'll keep watching, always had a little rooting interest in Stevens when not play RIT..... I think you guys may make the Tourney this year... Yea it looks like Hartwick, Stevens and Naz-- With Fisher and IC battling for #4, but you guys could sneak in.... I think the 4th team makes it with 7 losses.... BUT what???
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUSaxons33344 on January 14, 2012, 06:11:04 PM
    Quote from: FROMAFAR on January 10, 2012, 01:55:54 PM
    Hey PEP good hearing from you....... FROMAFAR misses the the board.... I'll keep watching, always had a little rooting interest in Stevens when not play RIT..... I think you guys may make the Tourney this year... Yea it looks like Hartwick, Stevens and Naz-- With Fisher and IC battling for #4, but you guys could sneak in.... I think the 4th team makes it with 7 losses.... BUT what???

    Big win for the Saxons at Fisher today!! 76-62... Going to be an interesting rest of the season battling for the 3-4 spots!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 15, 2012, 08:03:45 PM
    Seems the Saxons play better on Saterdays than on Friday nights. Repeated last weekend's results of losing Friday night, winning Sat. afternoon. Interesting how THREE Saxons came off the bench to score in double figures. From the boxscore, it appears that Wellman has built a well-balanced team, with eight players getting comparable playing time.

    Saxons shot well from behind the arc. When they do, they win. When they don't, well, they come in second place...

    On Saxon Warriors!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 20, 2012, 10:51:29 PM
    Results in the E8 league tonight:

    Ithaca defeats Elmira 75-70

    Hartwick downs St John Fisher 76-58

    Nazareth defeats Stevens 74-67

    Utica beats Alfred 85-66

    Ithaca, Nazareth, and Stevens are all tied at the top with 4-1 records. Hartwick is next at 3-2 followed by Alfred and Fisher tied at 2-3, Utica 1-4 and Elmira 0-5
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 21, 2012, 05:48:31 PM
    Saxons hold on for an 84-80 win over Ithaca, continuing a trend of losing Friday night games, winning Saturday afternoon games. AU now 3-3 and Ithaca 4-2 in conference play. Sean Curran (26 points with 7 treys), Derek Lewis (23 points) and Josh Parker (17) lead Saxon scoring.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 24, 2012, 08:09:48 PM
    Travel partners face off tonight in Empire 8 to complete first half of conference play:

    Alfred (3-3) at Elmira (0-6)
    Hartwick (4-2) at Stevens (5-1)
    Utica (2-4) at Ithaca (4-2)
    and...
    Fisher (2-4) at Naz (4-2)

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on January 24, 2012, 09:42:57 PM
    Fisher at Naz.... the memories abound...   Hope your Au does not take Elmira too lightly..
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 24, 2012, 09:51:39 PM
    Elmira a vastly improved team....some new personnel this semester. Tonight's finals:

    Alfred 61, Elmira 59
    Ithaca 83, Utica 74 (correction....previously had women's score)
    Hartwick 68, Stevens 66
    Nazareth 85, Fisher 67

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 24, 2012, 10:18:21 PM
    Sean Rossi. 19 assists. Stat-padding. Discuss
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 26, 2012, 03:35:19 PM
    Big weekend coming up in the Empire 8.

    FRIDAY NIGHT'S GAMES:
    Stevens (5-2) at Ithaca (5-2)
    Naz (5-2) at Alfred (4-3)
    Fisher (2-5) at Elmira (0-7)
    Hartwick (5-2) at Utica (2-5)

    SATURDAY'S CONTESTS:
    Fisher (2-5) at Alfred (4-3)
    Naz (5-2) at Elmira (0-7)
    Stevens (5-2) at Utica (2-5)
    Hartwick (5-2) at Ithaca (5-2)

    Should be interesting to see whether there's any separation among the 5-2 teams this weekend. Bombers, while at home, probably have the toughest weekend, hosting two 5-2 squads of Ducks and Hawks. Should the Bombers prevail, it will be a feather (or two) in their cap. Pep will go out on a limb and predict that Elmira's Soaring Eagles will get their first win this weekend. They're playing good ball and something's gotta give.

    On Saxon Warriors!



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on January 27, 2012, 04:01:25 AM
    Thought that Elmira was improving and obviously I was right as AU wins a squeaker.  AU Pep are you going to predict who Elmira will beat for that first W?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 27, 2012, 09:01:15 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on January 27, 2012, 04:01:25 AM
    Thought that Elmira was improving and obviously I was right as AU wins a squeaker.  AU Pep are you going to predict who Elmira will beat for that first W?

    I don't think Elmira will beat Nazareth. Fisher could be had but I think Elmira will still be winless after this weekend. On the Multi Regional Page we have the Undefeated and Winless survivor pool. Elmira is on the winless list and is one of 6 teams in all of D3 that has yet to win a game. Hopefully the Soaring Eagles will win a game before all the other teams on the list do so. In this contest the last team standing is not a good thing. I think the best chance for an Elmira win will come on their last home game of the year against a struggling Utica team. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 27, 2012, 11:48:54 AM
    Pep is just saying that Elmira seems to have become much more competitive of late and Alfred was fortunate to get a win Tuesday night.

    Much like AU beat a solid Hartwick team at McLane Center, Pep is thinking Elmira will put together 40 minutes that will result in a win. More likely to happen, at this juncture, against Fisher than Naz. Not sure what's happening at Fisher....four straight double digit losses is uncharacteristic of the Cardinals with Kornaker (AU) at the helm.

    Just sayin' it seems Elmira isn't an automatic "W" for anyone right now. Since a blowout loss at Naz Jan. 14, Soaring Eagles' losses are by 5, 7 and 2 points their last three outings, to Ithaca, Utica and Alfred.

    Maybe they don't get a win this weekend....maybe against Utica, or maybe even Ithaca or Alfred. Just get the feeling it will happen.




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 27, 2012, 08:29:22 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 27, 2012, 09:01:15 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on January 27, 2012, 04:01:25 AM
    Thought that Elmira was improving and obviously I was right as AU wins a squeaker.  AU Pep are you going to predict who Elmira will beat for that first W?

    I don't think Elmira will beat Nazareth.

    Considering Nazareth already beat them by 53 points once, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is accurate
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 27, 2012, 09:58:21 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 27, 2012, 08:29:22 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 27, 2012, 09:01:15 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on January 27, 2012, 04:01:25 AM
    Thought that Elmira was improving and obviously I was right as AU wins a squeaker.  AU Pep are you going to predict who Elmira will beat for that first W?

    I don't think Elmira will beat Nazareth.

    Considering Nazareth already beat them by 53 points once, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is accurate

    Go ahead and build your treehouse out on that limb, 798891, Pep thinks you'll be safe.

    Fisher easily handles Elmira (0-8) to go 3-5.
    Nazareth does the same to Alfred and now 6-2, dropping AU to 4-4.
    Ithaca edges Stevens to stay pace at 6-2, Stevens now 5-3.
    Hartwick clobbers Utica to remain in the hunt at 6-2, Utica falls to 2-6.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on January 27, 2012, 10:30:25 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 27, 2012, 09:58:21 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 27, 2012, 08:29:22 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 27, 2012, 09:01:15 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on January 27, 2012, 04:01:25 AM
    Thought that Elmira was improving and obviously I was right as AU wins a squeaker.  AU Pep are you going to predict who Elmira will beat for that first W?

    I don't think Elmira will beat Nazareth.

    Considering Nazareth already beat them by 53 points once, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is accurate

    Go ahead and build your treehouse out on that limb, 798891, Pep thinks you'll be safe.

    Fisher easily handles Elmira (0-8) to go 3-5.
    Nazareth does the same to Alfred and now 6-2, dropping AU to 4-4.
    Ithaca edges Stevens to stay pace at 6-2, Stevens now 5-3.
    Hartwick clobbers Utica to remain in the hunt at 6-2, Utica falls to 2-6.

    Stevens beat Ithaca
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 27, 2012, 11:21:01 PM
    Quote from: Old Duck on January 27, 2012, 10:30:25 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 27, 2012, 09:58:21 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 27, 2012, 08:29:22 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 27, 2012, 09:01:15 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on January 27, 2012, 04:01:25 AM
    Thought that Elmira was improving and obviously I was right as AU wins a squeaker.  AU Pep are you going to predict who Elmira will beat for that first W?

    I don't think Elmira will beat Nazareth.

    Considering Nazareth already beat them by 53 points once, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is accurate

    Go ahead and build your treehouse out on that limb, 798891, Pep thinks you'll be safe.

    Fisher easily handles Elmira (0-8) to go 3-5.
    Nazareth does the same to Alfred and now 6-2, dropping AU to 4-4.
    Ithaca edges Stevens to stay pace at 6-2, Stevens now 5-3.
    Hartwick clobbers Utica to remain in the hunt at 6-2, Utica falls to 2-6.

    Stevens beat Ithaca

    That is correct. Pep obviously got his score off the D3hoops scoreboard and whichever SID entered the score got it backwards. Stevens had the 71 and Ithaca had 67.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 28, 2012, 06:32:55 PM
    Pep apologizes. Goes to show one can't always believe what one reads.
    Saxons hold on for 77-70 win over Fisher to move to 5-4 in conference play, after dropping a 68-48 loss to Naz last night.
    Don't mess with my Saxons on a Saterday afternoon.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 28, 2012, 08:47:48 PM
    Results from today's action:

    Hartwick 78  Ithaca 75 

    Hatrwick comes back from a 69-61 deficit with 4:26 to play and finally catches the Bombers on a 3 pointer by Mike Geisser to complete a 10-0 run and take the lead at 71-69 with 2:43 on the clock. Ithaca falls behind by 4 but a trifecta by Sean Rossi ties it again at 75 with 9 seconds left. Just enough time for Anthony Keane to nail a triple of his own for the game winner with 4 seconds left.

    Stevens 94  Utica 85   

    Once again the score posted on the D3hoops scoreboard is wrong as they show Utica winning by an 85-84 score.
    The Ducks were up by 1 at the half 45-44 before pulling away in the final 10 minutes to get the win. Up 65-65 with 11:02 left Stevens got an 11-2 run to give them a double digit lead. The closest the Pioneers could get after that was 6 points as Stevens extended their advantage to 13 and won away from home once again. The Ducks are still undefeated on the road with an 8-0 record. 

    Alfred 77  St. John Fisher 70

    Alfred led at the half 33-31 but opened up a 13 point lead in the 2nd period and Fisher never got closer than 7 points. They sweep the Cardinals for the first time in how long Pep? I don't recall it happening in at least 10 years and maybe longer. The last time they won a game against Fisher was in February of 2009. They were 2-14  going into this season against the Cardinals. Alfred moves into a 4th place tie with Ithaca, but currently holds the tiebreaker for the 4th and final playoff spot.

    Nazareth 90  Elmira 78

    Certainly a lot closer than the first time they met. Golden Flyers up by a 46-32 margin at the break but Elmira closes to within 5 and narrows it to a single possession at 54-51 with 15:31 to play. Back and forth action over the next 4 minutes until Naz gets a little daylight and opens up a 70-61 advantage with 9:26 to go. The Soaring Eagles would narrow it to 3 points on two more ocassions but down 76-73 with 4:16 remaining they allowed Nazareth to open up a ten point lead at 85-75 and that was the ballgame. Naz would hit 5 of 6 from the line to close it out. Good effort for the Eagles to try and break into the win column.


    Updated Standings:

                          Conference               Overall
    Hartwick              7-2                       18-2

    Stevens               7-2                      15-4

    Nazareth             7-2                       14-6

    Alfred                  5-4                         12-6

    Ithaca                 5-4                        8-12

    St. John Fisher     4-5                       10-10

    Utica                   2-7                       6-14

    Elmira                 0-9                       0-19

    Edit: Stevens score has been corrected on the D3 scoreboard.



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: FranElia on January 28, 2012, 10:39:23 PM
    Just saw this online - turns out Hartwick's game-winning shot just beat the buzzer, after Ithaca had tied the game with less than 5 seconds left. There's video with the story at:

    http://ithaca-cortland.ynn.com/content/sports/571843/buzzer-beater-gives-hartwick-men-thrilling-victory-at-ithaca/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 29, 2012, 12:06:55 AM
    Quote from: franelia on January 28, 2012, 10:39:23 PM
    Just saw this online - turns out Hartwick's game-winning shot just beat the buzzer, after Ithaca had tied the game with less than 5 seconds left. There's video with the story at:

    http://ithaca-cortland.ynn.com/content/sports/571843/buzzer-beater-gives-hartwick-men-thrilling-victory-at-ithaca/

    Wow! Thanks for the link Fran, I don't think you could release the ball any later than Keane did and have it count. That ball barely left his hand when the buzzer sounded. Another tough loss for the Bombers, but a huge win for Hartwick to remain tied for the top spot.

    On another note, I went over to the Cortland bench tonight to inquire about you, just on the chance you might have traveled north. I didn't think you SID's would go to those lengths but you never know. ;D Sorry I missed you. The Red Dragons got lucky tonight, but as the Bums always used to say, "Wait till next year". ::)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on January 29, 2012, 12:29:38 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 29, 2012, 12:06:55 AM
    The Red Dragons got lucky tonight, but as the Bums always used to say, "Wait till next year". ::)

    .....Or possibly 2/21/12?!. If the playoffs started today it would be #2 Cortland vs #7 Plattsburgh. (I believe..the SUNYAC website is acting up but Im pretty sure Im close -standing wise). ;) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUKaz00 on February 01, 2012, 11:00:54 AM
    Alfred won the Battle of Allegany County, 80-61 over Houghton (http://saxons.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?ID=7237) yesterday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 02, 2012, 10:20:08 AM
    It will be another big weekend of Empire 8 play. Saxons face toughest road trip of the season and will be hard-pressed to earn a split against the likes of Hartwick and Stevens. AU one of only two teams to beat the Hawks this season. Here's the line-up:

    FRIDAY, FEB. 3:
    Alfred (13-6, 5-4) at Hartwick (18-2, 7-2)
    Elmira (0-20, 0-9) at Stevens (16-4, 7-2)
    Ithaca (8-12, 5-4) at Nazareth (14-6, 7-2)
    Utica (6-14, 2-7) at St. John Fisher (10-10, 3-6)

    SATURDAY, FEB. 4:
    Alfred at Stevens
    Elmira at Hartwick
    Utica at Nazareth
    Ithaca at St. John Fisher

    Bombers and Saxons battling for that fourth spot in the E8 Tourney with AU currently owning the tiebreaker by virtue of its 84-80 win at Ithaca.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUKaz00 on February 02, 2012, 10:54:48 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 02, 2012, 10:20:08 AM
    Bombers and Saxons battling for that fourth spot in the E8 Tourney with AU currently owning the tiebreaker by virtue of its 84-80 win at Ithaca.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Looking like that last spot will come down to second leg at McLane on the 11th.  I'd guess that Alfred goes 2-2 and Ithaca 3-1 in their remaining E8 games not against each other, but unless one of them can finish two games better than the other in those 4 games that outcome will decide the last tourney invite.  Fortunately for Alfred, it's played on a saterday!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 03, 2012, 09:35:16 PM
    Saxons lose a heart-breaker at Hartwick, 64-63. Great effort by AU, probably the Saxons' best Friday night performance in E8 play this season. Pep is proud....AU down 21-8 in first half, closed out first half strong to trail 29-23 at halftime. See-saw affair in second half as AU opened second half on a nice run to take the lead. Late turnovers hurt. Nevertheless nice effort.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 03, 2012, 09:37:45 PM
    Pep would post the Ithaca-Naz score but last time the D3 scoreboard was wrong.
    Nevertheless, here's what Pep's got:
    Ithaca 81, Nazareth 59
    Utica 72, Fisher 64
    Hartwick 64, Alfred 63
    Stevens 71, Elmira 60

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 04, 2012, 12:11:07 AM
    Andrei Oztemel with the shooting performance of the season in the E8.

    10-for-10 overall, 7-of-7 from three point range...27 points in 22 minutes. Unreal.

    Nazareth gets in on the stat padding tonight, as Rossi gets 17 assists.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on February 04, 2012, 12:31:24 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 03, 2012, 09:37:45 PM
    Pep would post the Ithaca-Naz score but last time the D3 scoreboard was wrong.
    Nevertheless, here's what Pep's got:
    Ithaca 81, Nazareth 59
    Utica 72, Fisher 64
    Hartwick 64, Alfred 63
    Stevens 71, Elmira 60

    ::shrug:: we post what schools submit.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on February 04, 2012, 12:47:34 AM
    Man Bombers you aren't kidding!!  That is insane!! Perfection every attempt is almost impossible when you've had 17 of them! :o
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 04, 2012, 11:10:03 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 04, 2012, 12:47:34 AM
    Man Bombers you aren't kidding!!  That is insane!! Perfection every attempt is almost impossible when you've had 17 of them! :o

    Well, 10 actually, but 7 of them from three amps up the difficulty rating a lot
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 04, 2012, 05:52:05 PM
    Tale of two games:

    Friday night:

    Andrei Oztemel/Tom Sweeney: 22-of-26 from the floor, 54 points
    Sean Rossi/Frank Mitchell: 1-of-9 from the floor, 2 points

    Saturday afternoon:

    Oztemel/Sweeney: 5-of-9 from the floor, 11 points
    Rossi/Mitchell: 17-of-23 from the floor, 42 points

    Bombers flip the script, pick up a huge win, 72-59, at Fisher. Coupled with Alfred's blowout loss to Stevens, the 7-4 Bombers are now two full games ahead of the Saxons for the last spot in the E8 tournament. Alfred now has to hope they beat the Bombers again, and that Utica or Elmira pulls off an upset.

    What happened to Fisher? Two years ago, they were 15-1 in conference, and even last year, a solid 10-6. Now they're 3-8. Roster turnover maybe?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 10, 2012, 01:45:49 PM
    Final weekend of E8 conference play with the top four teams pretty much already settled. Saxons' only chance is if the Bombers, with a two-game lead for the fourth and final spot, get bombed at Elmira tonite and AU takes care of business with Utica, setting up a most interesting scenario as AU-IC square off tomorrow afternoon. Then AU will play Elmira and Ithaca will play Utica next Saturday.

    Tonight's Games:
    Ithaca (7-4, 10-12) at Elmira (0-11, 0-22)
    Utica (3-8, 7-15) at Alfred (5-6, 13-8)
    Hartwick (9-2, 20-2) at Nazareth (8-3, 15-7)
    Stevens (9-2, 18-4) at Fisher (3-8, 10-12)

    Saturday's Games:
    Ithaca at Alfred
    Utica at Elmira
    Hartwick at Fisher
    Stevens at Nazareth

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 11, 2012, 08:29:24 AM
    Looks like the #4 seed in the Empire 8 Tournament will back its way in as Ithaca drops a 70-62 game at Elmira, giving the Soaring Eagles their first win of the season. Meanwhile, 60 miles west, Utica gets a 3-pointer with 1.6 seconds remaining to defeat Alfred, 63-61 after the Saxons had taken a 61-60 lead with 8 seconds to go. It was the second straight Defibrillator Friday for the Saxons, who last week dropped a 64-63 heartbreaker at Hartwick.

    With the Bombers losing, AU still has a remote (although unlikely) chance of getting the #4 seed but must win today over Ithaca, then defeat Elmira next Saturday and hope the Ithaca boys get tripped up at Utica.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 11, 2012, 05:33:16 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 11, 2012, 08:29:24 AM
    Looks like the #4 seed in the Empire 8 Tournament will back its way in as Ithaca drops a 70-62 game at Elmira, giving the Soaring Eagles their first win of the season. Meanwhile, 60 miles west, Utica gets a 3-pointer with 1.6 seconds remaining to defeat Alfred, 63-61 after the Saxons had taken a 61-60 lead with 8 seconds to go. It was the second straight Defibrillator Friday for the Saxons, who last week dropped a 64-63 heartbreaker at Hartwick.

    With the Bombers losing, AU still has a remote (although unlikely) chance of getting the #4 seed but must win today over Ithaca, then defeat Elmira next Saturday and hope the Ithaca boys get tripped up at Utica.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Bombers continue their Jekyll and Hyde ways...beating Alfred soundly to claim the last spot in the E8 tournament. Ithaca has every shot in the tournament, having beaten the Hawks once, Naz twice and hanging with Stevens once, but...well, it's Ithaca. Still, at least they got in
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 14, 2012, 05:07:16 AM
    The Empire 8 league gets a team into the D3hoops Top 25 poll for the first time this season as Hartwick checks in with the #25 spot and a total of 50 points. The Hawks have been hanging around in the ORV category all year and finally crack the poll after beating Naz, then Fisher, over the weekend, to stretch their winning streak to 10 games. Their 22-2 record ties them for the 8th best record in all of D3.

    Oswego State leads the East Region, occupying the #16 spot in the rankings and a total of 229 points.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 15, 2012, 03:03:00 PM
    New set of Regional Rankings have just been released. Not a lot of changes in the East. The only change was Hobart leapfrogging over NYU. Hartwick continues to lead the way.   Here's the East rankings:


    EAST                      In Region     Overall
    1.   Hartwick               21-2          22-2

    2.   Oswego State       19-2          19-3

    3.   Hobart                 18-4          19-4

    4.   New York U.         18-4          18-4

    5.   Medaille               20-2          21-2

    6.   Nazareth              16-6          16-8

    For the complete list of Regional Rankings, here's the link to the NCAA page:
    http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3/regional_rankings
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 18, 2012, 06:15:32 PM
    Saxons finish season at 15-10 (6-8 in E8) with a 61-53 win over Elmira College on "Senior Day" with senior Josh Parker leading all scorers with 21 to go with 5 rebounds and 3 steals. Mike Branche went 3-for-3 from behind the arc and finished with 13 points for AU.

    Soaring Eagles led at the half, 25-22, with the lead changing numerous times in the second half. Elmira built a 48-42 lead with just over 8 minutes remaining but the Saxons played stifling defense and went on a 13-0 run over the next 6 minutes to take a 55-48 lead with just a couple minutes left.

    In addition to Parker, it was the final game for seniors Derek Lewis (4 pts, 3 rebs), Bryan Bobo (2 pts, 2 rebs) and Pat Hollenbeck (2 pts, 3 rebs). Congratulations to Coach Dale Wellman and the Saxons for a fine season. AU finished 5th in the E8 (6-8) and one of only two teams to beat E8 regular season champ Hartwick this season...and nearly beat the Hawks at Oneonta.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 18, 2012, 07:56:56 PM
    Hartwick wins the regular season and #1 seed in the E8 playoffs with a 91-76 win over Stevens and will host the tournament this coming Friday and Saturday.

    Ithaca defeats Utica College 110-96  and will face the Hawks in the semis on Friday Feb. 24th if Nazareth wins tonight against St. John Fisher. If Naz loses to Fisher they would fall to the 4th seed and face Hartwick in the first round, leaving an Ithaca-Stevens matchup for the other semi. With a win tonight Naz would claim the 2nd seed and face Stevens in the other semi-final.

    Edit: Nazareth defeats St John Fisher in overtime 68-62 and claims the #2 seed.

    #4 Ithaca at #1 Hartwick

    #3 Stevens at #2 Nazareth at Hartwick
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on February 21, 2012, 02:10:33 AM
    Who would have "thunk it" a few years ago....playoffs without St John Fisher......?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 24, 2012, 07:20:57 PM
    Let's go Bombers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 24, 2012, 07:47:46 PM
    Nazareth holds on for a 74-71 win over Stevens to advance to the Empire 8 Tourney Finals.

    Bombers and Hawks coming up next.....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 24, 2012, 08:42:41 PM
    Bombers take a 40-26 lead into the locker room.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 24, 2012, 09:31:02 PM
    Hawks going down as Ithaca leads 73-63 with 1:35 to play. Naz will face the Bombers for the automatic bid to the Dance.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 24, 2012, 09:36:07 PM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 21, 2012, 02:10:33 AM
    Who would have "thunk it" a few years ago....playoffs without St John Fisher......?
    ..AND the Bombers get a playoff victory!  Congrats to the current Bomber squad on a hard fought victory over the top team in the E8 and one of the tops in the region.  This partially makes up for all the unexpected losses by Bomber squads over the past decade in both the E8 and NCAA tournaments.  There is still a long way to go but this is a good start.  Good luck tomorrow against Naz. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 24, 2012, 09:37:46 PM
    Final score: Ithaca 79 Hartwick 67

    That should guarantee the East Region gets at least 1 Pool C bid as the Hawks will be on the table right off the bat.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 24, 2012, 09:47:39 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 24, 2012, 09:36:07 PM
    Quote from: with age came? on February 21, 2012, 02:10:33 AM
    Who would have "thunk it" a few years ago....playoffs without St John Fisher......?
    ..AND the Bombers get a playoff victory!  Congrats to the current Bomber squad on a hard fought victory over the top team in the E8 and one of the tops in the region.  This partially makes up for all the unexpected losses by Bomber squads over the past decade in both the E8 and NCAA tournaments.  There is still a long way to go but this is a good start.  Good luck tomorrow against Naz.

    Amazing. Flat out amazing. The Bombers take down the 23-2 Hawks on the road. Closing the first half on a 20-6 run, the Wick never get closer than five the rest of the way, and spend most of the half down by double digits. Tom Sweeney with 21 to lead Ithaca.

    Explain this to me. Ithaca beats 23-3 Hartwick twice on the road, and give 1-24 Elmira their only win of the season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 25, 2012, 04:40:45 PM
    Ithaca leads Nazareth 35-27 at halftime of the E8 championship game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 25, 2012, 05:33:33 PM
    Ithaca wins their 1st Empire 8 Tournament Championship with a 71-55 victory over Nazareth. Ithaca will enter the NCAA Tournament with a 14-13 record. Probably will be the worst record of the 62 teams at the Dance.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 25, 2012, 05:50:44 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 25, 2012, 05:33:33 PM
    Ithaca wins their 1st Empire 8 Tournament Championship with a 71-55 victory over Nazareth. Ithaca will enter the NCAA Tournament with a 14-13 record. Probably will be the worst record of the 62 teams at the Dance.
    Yes!  Of the past 5 or 6 years this was probably the least likely Bomber squad to win the tournament but good for them.  Jay Bilas said it best on Gameday this morning, "the NCAA tournament does not crown the best team, it crowns the team with the best matchups that got hot at the right time".  The same principal applies the conference tournaments across all divisions of college basketball.  Some of the time, the best team in the conference wins the tournament, and some of the time it doesn't.  Ithaca had the best team in the conference several times of the past decade and didn't win the conference tournament, this year it did.  That is the nature of the sport and what makes it exciting for 5 months of the season.  In football, a lot of teams' playoffs hope are finished 3 or 4 games into the season and that isn't the case in basketball.

    With the Bombers at 14-13, they are most likely up against one of the brackets top seeds (Amherst or Middlebury possibly), which should provide a great challenge.

    Congrats to Coach Mullins and Tanous as well as the current Bomber squad on a great weekend and a long deserved and overdue E8 title.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 25, 2012, 07:45:06 PM
    Quote from: bomber3 on February 25, 2012, 05:50:44 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 25, 2012, 05:33:33 PM
    Ithaca wins their 1st Empire 8 Tournament Championship with a 71-55 victory over Nazareth. Ithaca will enter the NCAA Tournament with a 14-13 record. Probably will be the worst record of the 62 teams at the Dance.
    Yes!  Of the past 5 or 6 years this was probably the least likely Bomber squad to win the tournament but good for them.  Jay Bilas said it best on Gameday this morning, "the NCAA tournament does not crown the best team, it crowns the team with the best matchups that got hot at the right time".  The same principal applies the conference tournaments across all divisions of college basketball.  Some of the time, the best team in the conference wins the tournament, and some of the time it doesn't.  Ithaca had the best team in the conference several times of the past decade and didn't win the conference tournament, this year it did.  That is the nature of the sport and what makes it exciting for 5 months of the season.  In football, a lot of teams' playoffs hope are finished 3 or 4 games into the season and that isn't the case in basketball.

    With the Bombers at 14-13, they are most likely up against one of the brackets top seeds (Amherst or Middlebury possibly), which should provide a great challenge.

    Congrats to Coach Mullins and Tanous as well as the current Bomber squad on a great weekend and a long deserved and overdue E8 title.

    Seriously, I don't think words can describe how amazing this win is. The Bombers are 12-13, and their leading scorer and rebounder plays 15 minutes all weekend. And they take it down. Unreal.
    Congrats to the Bombers for gutting it out. They're certainly peaking at the right time. Could be a dangerous team next season, as the only singnificant loss is Jordan Marcus.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 26, 2012, 11:37:33 PM
    Pep watched IC's win over Hartwick. IC hit some key treys (a couple of them finding the net after bounding off the iron) to frustrate 'wick's comeback attempts. But seriously, if ever there was a year for a #4 seed to win the tourney, this was it. Seemed to be a season of parity...with St. John Fisher an uncharacteristic non-player.

    Even Hartwick's gaudy season record of 23-3 included numerous razor thin wins. Fifth place AU, after all, split its games with both Ithaca and Hartwick. The Saxons just missed beating the Hawks at Lambros, 64-63....and barely beat last place Elmira in both of its meetings.

    Congrats to the Bombers! Good luck, IC, and, assuming 'wick gets in, the Hawks, in the NCAAs.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 27, 2012, 03:02:50 PM
    Posted this on all New York boards.

    The East region comes out smelling roses as Hartwick, Hobart and NYU all recieve a Pool C bid to the dance. The following eight teams from the East Region are all dancing:

    Oswego State--Ithaca--Skidmore--Medaille--Morrisville State--Hobart--Hartwick--NYU

    Oswego State as I thought gets to host a first round pod with their opponent being the Endicott Gulls who won the Commonwealth Coast Conference Championship in the Northeast Region and got a Pool A bid.

    Medaille, winners of the AMCC conference will take on Eastern Connecticut who won the Little East Conference from the Northeast Region, in the other  game at the Oswego site. So all four teams in the Oswego pod were Pool A winners

    Hartwick in a bit of a surprise also gets to host a first round pod as they will take on Farmingdale State from the Atlantic Region. The Rams were the winners of the Skyline conference championship.

    The other game at Hartwick will feature the #3 ranked team in the country the MIT Engineers. MIT was the champion of the NEWMAC conference and they will take on the winners of the Liberty League, the Skidmore Thoroughbreds.

    Ithaca who won the Empire 8 championship will travel to Staten Island to take on the Saten Island Dolphins,from the Atlantic region and winners of the CUNYAC championship. The other game in that pod will have two Northeast Region schools squaring off as Rhode Island College takes on Salem State. Rhode Island College from the Little East Conference received a Pool C bid, while Salem State won the MASCAC championship. 

    Hobart will travel to Radnor Pa. home of the #6 ranked Cabrini Cavaliers. The Statesmen will face off against Ohio Wesleyan University who received an at large bid from the Great Lakes Region. The Battling Bishops finished in third place in the North Coast Athletic Conference and bring a 20-7 record into the dance. Host Cabrini will play Castleton State who won the North Atlantic Coference Championship, in the Northeast Region.

    NYU a Pool C winner will host the Misericordia Cougars in a first round game. The Cougars, winners of the Middle Atlantic Conference-Freedom are making their first trip ever to the NCAA tournament. The winner of this game will travel to Amherst for a 2nd round matchup. The Lord Jeffs were one of the two teams that received a first round bye. (The other team was Virginia Wesleyan)

    The Morrisville State Mustangs, winners of the NEAC championship are making their first appearance in the NCAA tournamnet and will travel to the Middlebury Panthers and face the 4th ranked team in the country.

    I don't see a lot of wins here for the East Region. Oswego is a double digit favorite in their matchup against Endicott. NYU will be favored by about 8 points against Misericordia and Hartwick is a slight favorite (5 points) against Farmingdale State.  Morrisville State is a 25 point underdog, while Medaille, and Skidmore are both about 10 point underdogs. Ithaca (+7) and Hobart (+3) won't be favored either but upset possibilities are there.  Good luck to all the East Region teams.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on March 03, 2012, 02:24:19 AM
     3 up 5 down (1 in ot) not all bad?  Could have been worse as Oswego should have probably been beat. 19 w and 11 L on the first round of my bracket.  Magic are you about 27 and 3? ;D  At least 14 of my sweet 16 are still alive. Don't think too many people saw Becker pounding on William Patterson (my other loss was Transylvania).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 03, 2012, 03:27:13 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on March 03, 2012, 02:24:19 AM
    3 up 5 down (1 in ot) not all bad?  Could have been worse as Oswego should have probably been beat. 19 w and 11 L on the first round of my bracket.  Magic are you about 27 and 3? ;D  At least 14 of my sweet 16 are still alive. Don't think too many people saw Becker pounding on William Patterson (my other loss was Transylvania).

    Lots of upsets tonight. I went 22-8 in the first round.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on March 07, 2012, 11:17:24 PM
    In real trouble now on my bracket as I only have 10 of the 16 teams for the sweet 16.  But I would guess there are not lot of people who had Ill Wes over Hope or Staten Island over RIC.  And Scranton coming out of their pod was a surprise too.  Most disheartening is only 4 left out my elite 8 teams.  Magic you have to be sitting pretty in the fantasy bracket with the Amherst duo putting up so many points! 8-)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 08, 2012, 03:28:44 AM
    Quote from: with age came? on March 07, 2012, 11:17:24 PM
    In real trouble now on my bracket as I only have 10 of the 16 teams for the sweet 16.  But I would guess there are not lot of people who had Ill Wes over Hope or Staten Island over RIC.  And Scranton coming out of their pod was a surprise too.  Most disheartening is only 4 left out my elite 8 teams.  Magic you have to be sitting pretty in the fantasy bracket with the Amherst duo putting up so many points! 8-)

    I've got the 2 top scorers from Amherst (Toomey and Workman, who is also the leading rebounder) and the 2nd leading scorer from Middlebury (Kizell). I started out slow because Amherst had a 1st round bye and I got no points from those guys on Friday night but had a big night on Saturday to climb into 4th place. I'm hoping both Middlebury and Amherst reach the Final Four. If they do I could be in pretty good shape. I need the guys in front of me to have their player's teams lose while my guys play on. Hoping MIT, Wooster, Cabrini, and Whitewater all lose this weekend.

    I'm in 25th place with my bracket. And you having 10 of the Sweet 16 isn't bad. As you said most everybody had Hope and not too many if any had Staten Island. Scranton and North Central were in the minority as well.

    Did you see my post on the YAC board or Liberty League board about SLU's Ralph Temgoua getting voted into the All Star game. I voted for him on Monday and he was only getting 1% of the vote. He had a big finish though and made the All Star team as the D3hoops fans made him one of the 2 fan favorites to play in the game. Happy for him. He was always worth the price of admission. 8-) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 17, 2012, 11:46:08 AM
    The NABC has released their All American Teams and  Empire 8 POY Jared Suderley has been named to the 2nd team. SUNYAC POY Oswego State's Chad Burridge was named to the 1st team and Liberty League POY Ralph Temgoua was named to the 3rd team. Here's the complete list.

    2012 NABC COACHES' DIVISION III ALL-AMERICA FIRST TEAM

    DaQuan Brooks, Western Connecticut, 5-10, Senior, Guard, Atlanta, Ga.
    Chad Burridge, Oswego State, 6-7, Senior, Center, Hannibal, N.Y.
    Chris Davis, UW-Whitewater, 6-6, Senior, Forward, Madison, Wis.
    David Krombeen, Hope, 6-2, Senior, Guard, Grandville, Mich.
    AJ Matthews, Farmingdale State, 7-0, Junior, Forward, Brooklyn, N.Y.
    Tim McCrary, Wheaton (Ill.), 6-6. Senior, Forward, Wilmette, Ill.
    Georgio Milligan, Franklin and Marshall, 6-2, Senior, Guard, Spring Valley, N.Y.
    DJ Woodmore, Virginia Wesleyan, 6-3, Sophomore, Guard, Virginia Beach, Va.

    2012 NABC COACHES' DIVISION III ALL-AMERICA SECOND TEAM

    Seth Anderson, Gustavus Adolphus, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Minnesota Lake, Minn.
    Tim Brady, Ohio Wesleyan, 6-4, Senior, Forward, Dublin, Ohio
    Lance Brown, William Paterson, 6-4, Junior, Guard/Forward, Teaneck, N.J.
    Travis Clark, Lake Forest, 6-5, Senior, Post, Evanston, Ill.
    Cory Lemons, Cabrini, 5-10, Senior, Guard, Wilmington, Del.
    Ryan Sharry, Middlebury, 6-8, Senior, Forward, Braintree, Mass.
    Jared Suderley, Hartwick, 6-6, Sophomore, Forward, Newport, N.Y.
    Conley Taylor, Christopher Newport, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Newport News, Va.

    2012 NABC COACHES' DIVISION III ALL-AMERICA THIRD TEAM

    Ray Askew, Albertus Magnus, 6-6, Senior, Forward, Hamden, Conn.
    Chris Blees, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 6-5, Graduate, Forward, Carmichael, Calif.
    Winston Douglas, Medgar Evers, 6-4, Junior, Guard, Hempstead, N.Y.
    Greg Ross, Centre, 6-4, Senior, Forward, Cincinnati, Ohio
    Corey Shontz, John Carroll, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Andover, Ohio
    Ethan Spurlin, Transylvania, 6-4, Junior, Forward, Stanford, Ky.
    Ralph Temgoua, St. Lawrence, 6-4, Senior, Guard, Paris, France
    Perry Wright, Widener, 6-3, Senior, Forward, Severn, Md.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 17, 2012, 04:14:43 PM
    D3hoops has released their All American Teams. Jared Suderley from Hartwick makes the 2nd team. Chad Burridge receives honorable mention. These are the only 2 East Region players that were named. 25 players from 25 different schools. Cabrini got 2 mentions as they had a 1st  teamer and the Rookie of the Year. No Player of the Year or Coach of the Year was released yet as they will be announced this evening during the National Championship game.

    Here's the link to all the teams:

    http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/2012
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Old Duck on March 19, 2012, 11:53:12 AM
    How does Smith from Stevens Tech not get a first team position on one of the East region polls, D3Hoops or NABC? He averaged more points per game than any of the these big men except for Jared Suderley. He also averaged more rebounds per game than any of them, the closest being Suderley averaging 3.4 less. He also is nationally ranked in 3 categories; 5th in rebounding with 12.0/game, 8th in field goal percentage at 62.6 and 2nd in double/doubles with 21.

          FG  FGA   FG%   3FG 3FGA   3PT%  FT  FTA FT%   OFF REB DEF REB TOT REB AVG REB  PF   
    Smith, Simon   191 305   0.626  0   1   0       120 191 0.628  97       238       335       12.0   69   
    Stein, Andy     177 314 0.564 17  45   0.378  60  84 0.714  35       138       173        6.4    64
    Suderley,Jared   205 374   0.548 17  52   0.327  98 118 0.831  80       152       232        8.6    60
    Pebole, Matt   143 274   0.522 23  54   0.426  87 118 0.737  57       155       212        7.3    52
                            AST AST/GAME TO STL BLK PTS AVG   WON LOST
    Smith, Simon    58  2.1             74 38  13  502 17.9    20   8
    Stein, Andy       68  2.5             48  8   28  431 16.0    21   6
    Suderley,Jared 49  1.8      46 18  10  525 19.4    23   4
    Pebole, Matt    46  1.6      50 23  20  396 13.7    23   6

       

       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: madzillagd on August 16, 2012, 01:52:20 PM
    NYU has created a blog for their global activities.  Lots of pics & video...

    http://teamnyuglobal.tumblr.com/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on August 17, 2012, 01:24:16 PM
    Quote from: madzillagd on August 16, 2012, 01:52:20 PM
    NYU has created a blog for their global activities.  Lots of pics & video...

    http://teamnyuglobal.tumblr.com/

    Unless I'm missing something, this would be better posted on the UAA board under "Mutli-Regional Topics".

    I can see how you got the Egg-Head 8 (NYU, UofR, Chicago, WashU, Brandies, Carnegie-Mellon, Emory and Case Western) confused with the E-8   ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: madzillagd on August 20, 2012, 12:38:52 PM
    Out of curiousity, what's the logic of having a D3Hoops branded East school in the Multi-Region Discussion topic instead of the East topic?    This was the only thread that I saw any NYU mention so I dropped it here.  I couldn't find the UAA thread in the East where I expected it to be. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 20, 2012, 08:32:47 PM
    That is because the UAA encompasses five regions: Northeast, East, Great Lakes, South, and Midwest. So to keep the conference somewhere that encompasses all of the teams, we chose the Multi-Regional topics. It wouldn't make any sense to have five UAA conversations going in five different regions. Only NYU and Rochester represent the East Region from the UAA.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on August 29, 2012, 09:44:45 AM
    The Fisher football team has a transfer student playing this year, who seems to be a transfer from the Medaille basketball team. Not sure if he is planning on playing basketball at Fisher or not. Anyone know anything about a David Shuey from Medaille?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on August 29, 2012, 02:02:56 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on August 29, 2012, 09:44:45 AM
    The Fisher football team has a transfer student playing this year, who seems to be a transfer from the Medaille basketball team. Not sure if he is planning on playing basketball at Fisher or not. Anyone know anything about a David Shuey from Medaille?

    Started every game for a 25-3 team.  Looks like he'd be a solid addition if he is playing basketball
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on October 23, 2012, 12:20:59 PM
    Any predicitions as to whom might be the E8 favorite this season? I've heard a couple of rumblings (since Buff Sate football is now a E8 participant). Thought I'd check with those who know!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on October 29, 2012, 10:35:22 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on October 23, 2012, 12:20:59 PM
    Any predicitions as to whom might be the E8 favorite this season? I've heard a couple of rumblings (since Buff Sate football is now a E8 participant). Thought I'd check with those who know!!

    Bombers. Dead serious. Ithaca returns four major pieces...two leading scorers (Mitchell and Oztemel), best PG in the conference (Rossi), and Tom Sweeney, who had 19+ points four times in the last eight games of 2012. Also have a senior transfer, Travis Warech, from D-II who averages 12.6 PPG. Eli Marivich, who was a solid depth guy in 2010, also returns after two years off. Ithaca underachieved last season, but peaked late in the season, and bring back as good a core as most teams have.

    Calling it now. Ithaca wins 20, takes both the regular season title and conference tournament, and one game in the NCAAs.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on October 30, 2012, 04:22:10 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 29, 2012, 10:35:22 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on October 23, 2012, 12:20:59 PM
    Any predicitions as to whom might be the E8 favorite this season? I've heard a couple of rumblings (since Buff Sate football is now a E8 participant). Thought I'd check with those who know!!

    Bombers. Dead serious. Ithaca returns four major pieces...two leading scorers (Mitchell and Oztemel), best PG in the conference (Rossi), and Tom Sweeney, who had 19+ points four times in the last eight games of 2012. Also have a senior transfer, Travis Warech, from D-II who averages 12.6 PPG. Eli Marivich, who was a solid depth guy in 2010, also returns after two years off. Ithaca underachieved last season, but peaked late in the season, and bring back as good a core as most teams have.

    Calling it now. Ithaca wins 20, takes both the regular season title and conference tournament, and one game in the NCAAs.

    Bombers tell ME how you really feel!!!! Now thats what I call a PREDICTION!!!!! ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 03, 2012, 01:16:09 PM
    Is anyone going to the Fisher scrimmage today against York University? I haven't spent as much time as I typically do on the Fisher team this year, so I really have no idea what they have coming in. I know they had a starter from Medaille transfer in, who is playing on the football team, but other than that I have no idea.

    Last year was a tough one for Fisher basketball. Here is hoping they have a rebound this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 07, 2012, 06:01:00 PM
    D3hoops preseason All America team has been released and Hartwick's Jared Suderly has been named to the 1st team. Ithaca's Sean Rossi has been named to the honorable mention list. Only other player from the East region is Rochester's John DiBartolomeo, who received a 2nd team nod. Here's a link to the complete list:   http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/preseason-2013. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 13, 2012, 09:16:19 PM
    Ready for the Start of the Division 3 Hoops season! my Preseason top 10 is
    1.Ithaca Bombers
    2.Hobart Statesman
    3.Hartwick Hawks
    4.Oswego State Lakers
    5.Nazerath Golden Flyers
    6.Rochester Yellow Jackets
    7.Medaille Mavericks
    8.New York Violets
    9.Union Dutchmen
    10.Cortland Red Dragons
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 13, 2012, 11:02:12 PM
    Welcome to the boards, dcahill44!!! Enjoy the season!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 14, 2012, 11:09:59 AM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 13, 2012, 09:16:19 PM
    Ready for the Start of the Division 3 Hoops season! my Preseason top 10 is
    1.Ithaca Bombers
    2.Hobart Statesman
    3.Hartwick Hawks
    4.Oswego State Lakers
    5.Nazerath Golden Flyers
    6.Rochester Yellow Jackets
    7.Medaille Mavericks
    8.New York Violets
    9.Union Dutchmen
    10.Cortland Red Dragons

    I wouldn't sleep too much on Fisher either. They have a good group coming in, and return several starters. Fisher was beat up most of last year, with the injury to Norsen (14.6 points, 9.1 boards in an injury filled year) a really tough blow. The addition of freshman PG Chaz Lott out of CBA Albany should solidify that position after losing Jordan Gettings from last year (http://www.maxpreps.com/athletes/JheUCLR280y8e4Fcw10j8A/basketball-winter-10-11/profile-chaz-lott.htm)

    Plata is a senior this year (10.2 PPG), with Grant Wrap back from injury as well. Optimymistik Kinard is athletic and has a year in the weight room behind him. Fisher will probably go 6-6, 6-6, 6-6 across the back line, so they have some size and can bring Pete Notaro at 6-7 as well.

    Obviously I am a big time homer but I am anxious to see how Fisher rebounds from a really poor season last year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 14, 2012, 06:40:24 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 13, 2012, 11:02:12 PM
    Welcome to the boards, dcahill44!!! Enjoy the season!
    I will Dave ill be watchiing your shows week after week stay in touch
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 14, 2012, 06:50:01 PM
    My Preseason Empire 8 standings are
    1.Ithaca return 4 out 5 starters
    2.Hartwick Jared Sudderly All american and other role players
    3.Nazerath Tyshun Stephens and Brad Ford are all league players and 2 freshman who will play right away.
    4.St John Fisher returns Jason Norsen Arguably The Best Big Guy in the Empire 8
    5.Stevens Tech Return Sheldon Jones an All League player
    6.Utica return Last years rookie of the year in the Region Aaron Nevins
    7.Alfred
    8. Houghton
    9. Elmira
    Can someone give me any Information On Houghton Mens Basketball Team
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 15, 2012, 08:36:41 AM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 14, 2012, 06:50:01 PM
    My Preseason Empire 8 standings are
    1.Ithaca return 4 out 5 starters
    2.Hartwick Jared Sudderly All american and other role players
    3.Nazerath Tyshun Stephens and Brad Ford are all league players and 2 freshman who will play right away.
    4.St John Fisher returns Jason Norsen Arguably The Best Big Guy in the Empire 8
    5.Stevens Tech Return Sheldon Jones an All League player
    6.Utica return Last years rookie of the year in the Region Aaron Nevins
    7.Alfred
    8. Houghton
    9. Elmira
    Can someone give me any Information On Houghton Mens Basketball Team

    First year in DIII, coming from NAIA.  Not a lot of success in NAIA at least the last couple of years.  Roster has good size.  Not sure many around here have had the chance to see them play
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2012, 09:22:26 AM
    I reach out to my Fisher friends- Why s David Shuey not listed on the BBall roster.
    He was a solid player and figured that when he transeferred he would play for Rob no doubt.
    Thoughts?
    I know that the fb season is still going on - but he isnt even listed.
    6-5 225, you dont ignore big men...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 15, 2012, 12:04:19 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 15, 2012, 08:36:41 AM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 14, 2012, 06:50:01 PM
    My Preseason Empire 8 standings are
    1.Ithaca return 4 out 5 starters
    2.Hartwick Jared Sudderly All american and other role players
    3.Nazerath Tyshun Stephens and Brad Ford are all league players and 2 freshman who will play right away.
    4.St John Fisher returns Jason Norsen Arguably The Best Big Guy in the Empire 8
    5.Stevens Tech Return Sheldon Jones an All League player
    6.Utica return Last years rookie of the year in the Region Aaron Nevins
    7.Alfred
    8. Houghton
    9. Elmira
    Can someone give me any Information On Houghton Mens Basketball Team

    First year in DIII, coming from NAIA.  Not a lot of success in NAIA at least the last couple of years.  Roster has good size.  Not sure many around here have had the chance to see them play

      I saw them play last year (vs Buff State at Houghton - a BENGALS win). A big and very athletic team that, I felt, underperformed. Especially since they were able to offer some $$ scholarships. They had kids from all over the country. Not sure if thats the case (that they can offer $$) this year!

    Also..FWIW...I saw St John Fisher in a scrimmage this year vs. Buffalo State. I believe that they will surprise some people and do better than most have predicted!!! ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on November 16, 2012, 12:06:48 AM
    As I understand it the scholarship players keep their $ through their career.  One of the reasons Joining the NCAA is a four year process to make sure that any scholarship players are out of the system before a team is eligible for championships.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 16, 2012, 11:25:44 AM
    Quote from: thebear on November 16, 2012, 12:06:48 AM
    As I understand it the scholarship players keep their $ through their career.  One of the reasons Joining the NCAA is a four year process to make sure that any scholarship players are out of the system before a team is eligible for championships.

    Good info there bear...good ifo.

    FWIW....Elmira must be better than predicted. Took a LOADED Cortland team to the wire last night!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 16, 2012, 11:41:26 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2012, 09:22:26 AM
    I reach out to my Fisher friends- Why s David Shuey not listed on the BBall roster.
    He was a solid player and figured that when he transeferred he would play for Rob no doubt.
    Thoughts?
    I know that the fb season is still going on - but he isnt even listed.
    6-5 225, you dont ignore big men...

    I thought we would be seeing him on the roster as well. He started every game for a pretty good Medaille team last year, and from watching him play football, he has the body and athletic ability to play for Fisher.

    This has happened in the past to Fisher guys who try to play two sports, but especially Football and Basketball. Fherenbach (sp?) never saw much time as a basketball player despite some serious athletic ability. I have also heard that Kramer was very talented and could play for Fisher but never seemed to crack into any legitimate playing time.

    Connor Henderson played a ton, but eventually left the basketball team to play Lax full time as well. Not sure what the reasoning is. Maybe these guys just really didn't have enough ability, but it seems like some of them should have worked out.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 16, 2012, 09:17:14 PM
    Naz up 47 27 at halftime against New Paltz Look great
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 17, 2012, 12:29:26 AM
    Fisher looked pretty strong tonight against Fredonia. Fisher won 79-60.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 17, 2012, 10:57:20 AM
    Fisher over Hilbert.
    Nazerath over New Jersey City in A close one
    Ithaca over Clarkson
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 17, 2012, 12:43:04 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 17, 2012, 10:57:20 AM
    Fisher over Hilbert.

    I don't know anything about Hilbert, but it looks like the scoreline against Fredonia was similar to Fisher's. I am interested to see how Fisher looks in back to back games. I was impressed with the D last night, and the some of the new guys looked good.

    Hopefully more of the same today.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 17, 2012, 01:20:06 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 17, 2012, 10:57:20 AM
    Fisher over Hilbert.
    Nazerath over New Jersey City in A close one
    Ithaca over Clarkson

    Think it might be Fisher, New Jersey City and Ithaca.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 17, 2012, 01:35:07 PM
    Fisher is up 15 late in the first.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 17, 2012, 02:38:11 PM
    Fisher was able to win today at Hilbert by 17. Looked good on defense again, and Norsen has been really good through 2 games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 17, 2012, 08:23:18 PM
    Clarkson with a buzzer beater by Marques Charlton to defeat Ithaca 65-63. Not that big of a surprise as Clarkson returned 4 starters from last year's 16-9 team. They'll be in the hunt for the Liberty League title for sure this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 17, 2012, 09:57:48 PM
    Nazerath wins and plays great over a good New Jersey City team and Clarkson beats Ithaca at the buzzer
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 18, 2012, 11:32:44 AM
    Does anyone know anything about the teams that Hartwick started against. I see Purchase College had a good record last year, but other than that I am looking for some insight. I was surprised to see Hartwick and IC with a loss already.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 18, 2012, 12:24:44 PM
    How good is Clarkson who beat I think is a Pretty darn good Ithaca Team and was Hartwick upset who did they play
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on November 19, 2012, 02:23:29 AM
    Clarkson is good.  They have four out of 5 starters beck from a 16-9 team.  John Coleman was I believe ECAC rookie of the year, is a big strong guard with great basketball skills, and very smart on the court.  His older brother Jerry, just as smart on the court, is even more athletic, a grad student who concentrated on baseball his first three seasons.  They are both complete players.  The Knights have size, depth, and coaching, they can bang it inside and shoot it outside, and are very physical at both ends of the court.  If they avoid injuries they could have a very solid season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 20, 2012, 12:50:15 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 18, 2012, 12:24:44 PM
    How good is Clarkson who beat I think is a Pretty darn good Ithaca Team and was Hartwick upset who did they play

    Hartwick lost their first game to Suny purchase (2-0) 77-84. They then beat host Regis college (0-2) in the consolation game 70-67. They play Union College (1st game) tonite at home!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 20, 2012, 07:15:32 PM
    2 of the best point Guards in Region tonight Tyshun Stephens and John Dibartolomeo Naz vs Rochester should be a Great Game and Hobart plays Buff state to great game
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 20, 2012, 09:17:07 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 20, 2012, 07:15:32 PM
    2 of the best point Guards in Region tonight Tyshun Stephens and John Dibartolomeo Naz vs Rochester should be a Great Game and Hobart plays Buff state to great game

    83-46 UofR with 8 to go.  Very definition of a great game... ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 21, 2012, 02:24:29 AM
    Hartwick loses to Union 62-54.  Liberty League which some have felt was down this year is now 2-0 against the E8. Both wins (Clarkson over Ithaca was the other) were against probable upper division teams. I think it will be an interesting year in NY State basketball.

    Hobart hosted Buffalo State Tuesday night and lost 80-74. Bengals lost several promising underclassmen from last year's team but will once again be in the top tier of the SUNYAC.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 21, 2012, 03:02:20 AM
    Alfred loses to host Penn College 61-53

    Hamilton defeats host Elmira 62-60.   Sounds like deju vu all over again. They lost their other game to Cortland 63-60. I watched them play against Cortland and the Soaring Eagles will surprise some teams this year.

    Utica defeats visiting SUNYIT 97-80.

    Stevens goes to 3-0 as they defeat host FDU-Florham 74-65.

    Roberts Wesleyan beats visiting Houghton 60-44

    Rochester beats visiting Nazareth 98-64 The guard matchup was also one sided as Yellowjackets' Dibartolomeo had 23 pts. 8 assists, 4 steals and 3 rebounds.  Naz's Tyshun Stephens had 8 pts, 3 assists 1 steal and 4 rebounds. I thought Rochester would win this game but guessed it would be much closer after Naz opened with 2 solid wins.

    The E8 is now 12-14 in out of conference games through Tuesday Nov.24th.


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 22, 2012, 06:03:44 PM
    Happy thanksgiving to everyone on the E8 posting up!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 24, 2012, 05:47:23 PM
    Watching Naz and Buffalo state tonight expect Naz to win by
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 24, 2012, 08:09:26 PM
    Nazerath up 77-70 against Buffalo State with 10 minutes left
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 25, 2012, 05:21:02 AM
    Nazareth travels to Buffalo and defeats Buffalo State 97-89.

    Final score not indicative of how close this game was with under 3 minutes to go. Down 87-80  the Bengals got a triple and a layup to cut the lead to 2 with 3:26 to play. Teams traded jump shots and with 2:25 to go Flyers Tyshun Stephens buries a 3 ball to make it a 5 pt lead at 92-87. Epps hits a jumper to make it 92-89, and after Naz misfired on their next possession, the Bengals did the same on a tying 3 point attempt with 1:29 left. Bengals get the rebound, however, but turn the ball over, their 3rd TO in the past several minutes and commit a foul on Stephens who makes them both to increase the lead to 5. Bengals then have their turn at the stripe but miss both attempts and that was pretty much the ballgame.  Naz hit 3 more free throws to stretch the 5 point lead to the final margin. Bengals were held scoreless in the final 2:02 of the game  where they missed four 3 pointers, 2 free throws committed 4 fouls and had a turnover. Certainly not the way the Bengals are used to finishing a game

    Brad Ford led Nazareth with 25 points and 16 rebounds. Five other players were in double figures. Brad's younger brother, only a freshman, Mitch, had 19 points and 12 rebounds. The Ford brothers total of 28 boards was almost as much as the entire Bengal team as they finished with 31. Nazareth had a total of 51 with 17 of them coming on the offensive end of the floor. Hard to win a game when you get beat that badly off the glass. Tyshun Stephens finished with 13 pts, 8 rebounds and 5 assists. His 3 pointer with 2:25 to play and the Golden Flyers nursing a slim 89-87 lead was probably the biggest basket of the game. The Bengals had cut a 7 point lead down to 2 and if the Flyers had come up empty in that possession it might have been a different outcome. Jack Giles came off the bench to score 12 points, while starters Maurice Mills and Scott Hayford both added 10 points. 

    Bengals were led by Roderick Epps with 33 points and Jake Simmons with 22. No other Bengal had double digits. I think the Bengals playing only their 2nd game of the season, compared to Nazareth's 4th game, probably had something to do with the outcome. Bengals lost 4 starters from last year's team and are still trying to figure out the right combinations to put on the floor, especially at crunch time. I would expect these teams will see considerable improvement as the season progresses. I believe both clubs will defintely be in the hunt for the top spot in their respective leagues and will certainly make their conference playoffs.

    Nazareth will next play on Wednseday, Nov. 28th in the first round of the Wendy's Classic against a team to be announced. The pairing for the Wendy's Classic will be announced later today.

    Buffalo State will next host Medaille on Tuesday Nov. 28th.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 26, 2012, 03:32:05 PM
    Wendy's College Classic pairings:


    http://www.wendyscollegeclassic.com/media/documents/2012/11/MensBracket.pdf
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 27, 2012, 12:53:20 AM
    The new D3hoops Top 25 poll is out. The only teams from the East Region that crack the rankings are Rochester at #17 with 162 points and NYU at #22 with 114 points.

    Stevens is the only E8 team that gets a mention as they receive 7 points (tied for #45) in the Others Receiving Votes category.

    Oswego State is the only other East team to receive recognition as they get 12 points (#40) in the ORV.

    Here's the link to the complete rankings:      http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/week1     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 28, 2012, 04:32:10 PM
    Does anyone know what to expect from Fisher/Brockport tonight? I don't know much about Brockport, but was happy with Fisher's start to the season. Fredonia and Hilbert are what they are, but Fisher was in control the entire weekend. I don't think this is one of the better Fisher teams we have seen, but they are much improved from last year.

    Fisher and Brockport are almost always good games, and add the Wendy's tournament into the mix and it could be a fun one tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 28, 2012, 04:51:23 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 28, 2012, 04:32:10 PM
    Does anyone know what to expect from Fisher/Brockport tonight? I don't know much about Brockport, but was happy with Fisher's start to the season. Fredonia and Hilbert are what they are, but Fisher was in control the entire weekend. I don't think this is one of the better Fisher teams we have seen, but they are much improved from last year.

    Fisher and Brockport are almost always good games, and add the Wendy's tournament into the mix and it could be a fun one tonight.

    Brockport is always fast and athletic. Haven't seen Brockport this year (saw SJF in a scrimmage), but if it's a fast paced game then SJF is in big trouble (IMNO) ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 28, 2012, 08:10:16 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 28, 2012, 04:51:23 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 28, 2012, 04:32:10 PM
    Does anyone know what to expect from Fisher/Brockport tonight? I don't know much about Brockport, but was happy with Fisher's start to the season. Fredonia and Hilbert are what they are, but Fisher was in control the entire weekend. I don't think this is one of the better Fisher teams we have seen, but they are much improved from last year.

    Fisher and Brockport are almost always good games, and add the Wendy's tournament into the mix and it could be a fun one tonight.

    Brockport is always fast and athletic. Haven't seen Brockport this year (saw SJF in a scrimmage), but if it's a fast paced game then SJF is in big trouble (IMNO) ;)

    I remember a sweet 16 game between the two teams a few years ago that ended up in the high 90's/low 100s. Fisher was pretty good that year, but that game was never played at the speed Fisher wanted. This team isn't as talented in my opinion, so hopefully they can slow it down tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 28, 2012, 08:49:36 PM
    Fisher up 2, 36-34 at the half against Brockport. Fisher was up by as much as 12 in the half, but gave up some open threes down the stretch which let Brockport back into it. Should be a fun 2nd half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 28, 2012, 09:13:58 PM
    Nazareth downs Geneseo 70-64 in a close game throughout.

    Rochester defeats RIT 66-59 to advance to the semifinals.  Surprisingly RIT had a slight lead at the half.


    A 4 point play by Brockport gives them a 45-40 lead over Fisher, but the Cardinals pull within 1 at 48-47. Now tied up at 49-49 with around 6 minutes to play I think. They never show a close up of the clock and there's no announcers.


    Update Fisher goes on an 11-1 run to go up 60-50 and increases their lead to a 12 point advantage at 68-56 with 8:39 left to play.


    Roberts Wesleyan leads Hobart 64-62 with 2:53 left to play.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 28, 2012, 09:39:29 PM
    Hobart and Roberts Wesleyan go to OT tied at 64.

    Fisher increasing their lead now up 77-63 with 4 minutes to play.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 28, 2012, 09:57:58 PM
    Fisher wins by 13 over Brockport. Got down by 5 to start the second half, but controlled the game from that point on. Fisher looked good again tonight, but we will really see what they have against U of R up next.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 28, 2012, 10:11:20 PM
    Hobart manages to get by Roberts Wesleyan in OT 81-80.

    Friday's games:

    Semi-Finals

    Hobart vs Nazareth at Rochester    6 PM

    St. John Fisher vs Rochester at Rochester  8PM

    Consolations

    RIT vs Brockport at Geneseo  6PM

    Roberts Wesleyan vs Geneseo at Geneseo  8PM

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 28, 2012, 10:14:07 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 28, 2012, 10:11:20 PM
    Hobart manages to get by Roberts Wesleyan in OT 81-80.

    Friday's games:

    Hobart vs Nazareth at Rochester    6 PM

    St. John Fisher vs Rochester at Rochester  8PM

    RIT vs Brockport at Geneseo  6PM

    Roberts Wersleyan vs Geneseo at Geneseo  8PM

    Man I love the Wendy's tournament. So much fun to see all of the area teams playing off in the same tournament. The longevity and history of the tournament just make it that much better.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 29, 2012, 05:51:56 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 28, 2012, 10:14:07 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 28, 2012, 10:11:20 PM
    Hobart manages to get by Roberts Wesleyan in OT 81-80.

    Friday's games:

    Hobart vs Nazareth at Rochester    6 PM

    St. John Fisher vs Rochester at Rochester  8PM

    RIT vs Brockport at Geneseo  6PM

    Roberts Wersleyan vs Geneseo at Geneseo  8PM

    Man I love the Wendy's tournament. So much fun to see all of the area teams playing off in the same tournament. The longevity and history of the tournament just make it that much better.

    I agree though in my head it will always be "The Chase".
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 29, 2012, 08:22:18 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 29, 2012, 05:51:56 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 28, 2012, 10:14:07 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 28, 2012, 10:11:20 PM
    Hobart manages to get by Roberts Wesleyan in OT 81-80.

    Friday's games:

    Hobart vs Nazareth at Rochester    6 PM

    St. John Fisher vs Rochester at Rochester  8PM

    RIT vs Brockport at Geneseo  6PM

    Roberts Wersleyan vs Geneseo at Geneseo  8PM

    Man I love the Wendy's tournament. So much fun to see all of the area teams playing off in the same tournament. The longevity and history of the tournament just make it that much better.

    I agree though in my head it will always be "The Chase".

    Yes. The Chase tournament, and it should always be played in the middle of the season, when the seedings can be based on more than a few games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on November 29, 2012, 10:29:39 AM
    Scheduling, though, is a little tough because as the E8 and LL have expanded, the conference schedule has gotten longer and it's a little more difficult to justify giving away a week in January with a handful of teams unable to play conference games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 29, 2012, 02:38:11 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 29, 2012, 10:29:39 AM
    Scheduling, though, is a little tough because as the E8 and LL have expanded, the conference schedule has gotten longer and it's a little more difficult to justify giving away a week in January with a handful of teams unable to play conference games.

    I understand, and if that is what it takes to keep the tournament going I am all for it, but I much preferred the later date for the tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 30, 2012, 09:36:03 PM
    Fisher never quit tonight against a really good U of R team, but could never dig out of a huge hole they dug themselves in the first half. Fisher could not make anything in the first 10-12 minutes, and U of R made a ton of 3's and Fisher was down 40-20 at the half. Fisher was able to cut the lead down to 9 at one point, but U of R made another run, and eventually put Fisher away. U of R by 13.

    Hard to judge much from the game for Fisher. I was happy with the way they played in the second half, but the first half was so bad, it is tough to know what team is the real Fisher.

    U of R on the other hand looked like the real deal. John DiBartolomo (sp?) was by far the best player on the floor, and had a great game. U of R is really solid.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on November 30, 2012, 11:21:01 PM
    Ithaca dropped the proverbial brick on the accelerator tonight. After sleepwalking through the first half and leading by only four, the Bombers put together one of the most dominant halves I've seen, outscoring Wells 56-28 to win 87-56. Five Bombers scored in double figures, led by Andrei Oztemel with 18 points and 12 rebounds
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 01, 2012, 07:25:16 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 30, 2012, 09:36:03 PM
    Fisher never quit tonight against a really good U of R team, but could never dig out of a huge hole they dug themselves in the first half. Fisher could not make anything in the first 10-12 minutes, and U of R made a ton of 3's and Fisher was down 40-20 at the half. Fisher was able to cut the lead down to 9 at one point, but U of R made another run, and eventually put Fisher away. U of R by 13.

    Hard to judge much from the game for Fisher. I was happy with the way they played in the second half, but the first half was so bad, it is tough to know what team is the real Fisher.

    U of R on the other hand looked like the real deal. John DiBartolomo (sp?) was by far the best player on the floor, and had a great game. U of R is really solid.

    I wonder how much U of R's success comes from playing in the Palestra.  They have shot lights out in every game except against RIT in the first round of the Wendy's and I think that was at Hobart.

    DiBartolomeo was just named one of the top 25 players in the UAA over the past 30 years.  I haven't seen him play in person yet, but plan on going to Clinton next week to watch U of R play Hamilton.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 01, 2012, 09:28:54 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on December 01, 2012, 07:25:16 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 30, 2012, 09:36:03 PM
    Fisher never quit tonight against a really good U of R team, but could never dig out of a huge hole they dug themselves in the first half. Fisher could not make anything in the first 10-12 minutes, and U of R made a ton of 3's and Fisher was down 40-20 at the half. Fisher was able to cut the lead down to 9 at one point, but U of R made another run, and eventually put Fisher away. U of R by 13.

    Hard to judge much from the game for Fisher. I was happy with the way they played in the second half, but the first half was so bad, it is tough to know what team is the real Fisher.

    U of R on the other hand looked like the real deal. John DiBartolomo (sp?) was by far the best player on the floor, and had a great game. U of R is really solid.

    I wonder how much U of R's success comes from playing in the Palestra.  They have shot lights out in every game except against RIT in the first round of the Wendy's and I think that was at Hobart.

    DiBartolomeo was just named one of the top 25 players in the UAA over the past 30 years.  I haven't seen him play in person yet, but plan on going to Clinton next week to watch U of R play Hamilton.

    Two really good points. I felt like everything U of R put up from 3 went in. They just didn't miss all night. At the free throw line I don't think U of R missed one, and they shot a lot of them.

    I knew DiBartolomeo could score from looking at the box scores, but I couldn't believe how good he was at the defensive (especially his perpensity for getting a steal and a score every I felt Fisher was getting back into the game. He passed well, could take people off the bounce, and scored whenever he wanted to. One of the better players I have seen at the D3 level (for one game anyway).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 01, 2012, 04:28:33 PM
    Very upset with Fisher's perfomance so far today...come on guys,.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on December 01, 2012, 07:04:32 PM
    I wanted to stay very quiet as to not jinx it.  And I will kick myself if they go out and start laying eggs.

    That being said, I saw all the preseason talk about everyone else but have seen this team twice at my alma maters tournament to start season, and a little team in Hoboken now has 2 wins against Top 25 teams after overcoming a 10 point halftime deficit to beat Williams up at Williams.  Shhh

    *Goes back to trying to rock everyone else back to sleep*
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on December 02, 2012, 03:11:01 PM
    Week 2 East Region Power Rankings                                                                             Records
    1.Rochester have the best player in the region John Dibartolomeo and have a real good team 8-0
    2.Stevens have beat 2 top 25 teams including Williams yesterday 5-0
    3.Cortland have beat in my opinion 2 Good Teams in Ithaca and Plattsburgh 5-0
    4.NYU lead by Leading scorer Carl Yaffe could have trouble in a real tough conference UAA 4-0
    5.Nazerath led By Tyshun Stephens and Brad Ford have played tough teams including Rochester, Buff State, Hobart, St John Fisher 5-2
    6.Hartwick hasnt played anyone that good, Jared Sudderly is a very good player ,should be in the hunt for the Empire 8 title. 5-2
    7.Buffalo State first 3 games are as tough as anyone and only loss is to Nazerath at home. 4-1
    8. Oswego State pretty good team led by Hayden Ward havent played anyone so far besides Plattsburgh and Lost. 4-1
    Ithaca, Medaille, Hobart will be in the Mix at the end of the year
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 02, 2012, 07:00:09 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on December 01, 2012, 07:04:32 PM
    I wanted to stay very quiet as to not jinx it.  And I will kick myself if they go out and start laying eggs.

    That being said, I saw all the preseason talk about everyone else but have seen this team twice at my alma maters tournament to start season, and a little team in Hoboken now has 2 wins against Top 25 teams after overcoming a 10 point halftime deficit to beat Williams up at Williams.  Shhh

    *Goes back to trying to rock everyone else back to sleep*


    Cyclone,
    I've been watching Stevens as well and early this morning I made out the schedule for the D3 Men's National Pick Em League Board over on the Multi Regional Topics page. I've got the Stevens-NYU game next Sunday as my weekly finale. The Ducks will get a chance to knock off another Top 25 team. They have to be the frontrunner for the E8 title at this stage of the season based on their OOC success. I was going to post something about Stevens ever since their win over Willie Pat back on the 17th. I decided to wait and see who woud come on the E8 board and plug the Ducks. Now that you've let the cat out of the bag, I can blame you if the Ducks start a losing streak. ;D   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on December 02, 2012, 07:42:48 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on December 02, 2012, 03:11:01 PM
    Week 2 East Region Power Rankings                                                                             Records
    1.Rochester have the best player in the region John Dibartolomeo and have a real good team 8-0
    2.Stevens have beat 2 top 25 teams including Williams yesterday 5-0
    3.Cortland have beat in my opinion 2 Good Teams in Ithaca and Plattsburgh 5-0
    4.NYU lead by Leading scorer Carl Yaffe could have trouble in a real tough conference UAA 4-0
    5.Nazerath led By Tyshun Stephens and Brad Ford have played tough teams including Rochester, Buff State, Hobart, St John Fisher 5-2
    6.Hartwick hasnt played anyone that good, Jared Sudderly is a very good player ,should be in the hunt for the Empire 8 title. 5-2
    7.Buffalo State first 3 games are as tough as anyone and only loss is to Nazerath at home. 4-1
    8. Oswego State pretty good team led by Hayden Ward havent played anyone so far besides Plattsburgh and Lost. 4-1
    Ithaca, Medaille, Hobart will be in the Mix at the end of the year

    Nazareth - is how it's spelled as in Jesus' hometown.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 04, 2012, 09:45:11 PM
    Fisher wins BIG over AU, beating the Saxons by 45. I don't know what to make of this Fisher team. They have certainly taken care of the teams I expect them to beat, but have had two poor performances against the 2 upper echelon teams.

    I don't know how good they are. I think they could be pretty good, but I need to see it against a quality team before I fully buy in. Not sure...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 06, 2012, 10:40:58 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 01, 2012, 09:28:54 AM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on December 01, 2012, 07:25:16 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 30, 2012, 09:36:03 PM
    Fisher never quit tonight against a really good U of R team, but could never dig out of a huge hole they dug themselves in the first half. Fisher could not make anything in the first 10-12 minutes, and U of R made a ton of 3's and Fisher was down 40-20 at the half. Fisher was able to cut the lead down to 9 at one point, but U of R made another run, and eventually put Fisher away. U of R by 13.

    Hard to judge much from the game for Fisher. I was happy with the way they played in the second half, but the first half was so bad, it is tough to know what team is the real Fisher.

    U of R on the other hand looked like the real deal. John DiBartolomo (sp?) was by far the best player on the floor, and had a great game. U of R is really solid.

    I wonder how much U of R's success comes from playing in the Palestra.  They have shot lights out in every game except against RIT in the first round of the Wendy's and I think that was at Hobart.

    DiBartolomeo was just named one of the top 25 players in the UAA over the past 30 years.  I haven't seen him play in person yet, but plan on going to Clinton next week to watch U of R play Hamilton.

    Two really good points. I felt like everything U of R put up from 3 went in. They just didn't miss all night. At the free throw line I don't think U of R missed one, and they shot a lot of them.

    I knew DiBartolomeo could score from looking at the box scores, but I couldn't believe how good he was at the defensive (especially his perpensity for getting a steal and a score every I felt Fisher was getting back into the game. He passed well, could take people off the bounce, and scored whenever he wanted to. One of the better players I have seen at the D3 level (for one game anyway).

    Saw DiBartolomeo play in person for the first time last night at Hamilton.  I see what you mean about his defense.  Tenacious.  One play stands out.  He scored on a drive to the basket (one of many) and with his back to the inbounder, stole the in bound pass in the corner.  Have no idea how he saw it and I'm sure Hamilton is still wondering.  And I see where his assists come from now.  He is so good at getting to the rim (through 3-4 guys at times) defenses drop off to cover the lane and he somehow sees or knows that a team mate has spotted up waiting for a pass, usually for a 3.  Which Rochester is exceedingly good at converting. 

    Watching the game I could only imagine what Rochester would have accomplished with Uche and Onyiriuka running with these guards.  Scary......
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2012, 01:28:51 PM
    Five games into the regular season, and I have no clue what to make of the Bombers. At times, it looks like they're going to run other teams off the court (See: Second half vs. Wells, the opening six minutes of the 2nd half of the Elmira game). Other times they look like they just can't get into a rhythm.

    The positives:

    The team is much better on the boards so far this season. They are basically a +2 after being a -5 last year. They're also up about two steals a game (from 6 to 8). They are also getting to the line more (24 foul shots per game as opposed to 17). They're less reliant on three point shooting this season, and they seem to be more active defensively, allowing 8 points a game less than last season. There's no way Andrei Oztemel shoots 25% from three all season (He's shot better than 40% each of the last three seasons), which should help the offense a lot.

    The negatives:

    Opponents are actually shooting better from the field against the Bombers than they were last season, with most of the eight point difference coming from significantly worse free throw shooting (which IC can't control), a slightly less slower pace, and fewer three-pointers being attempted (the percent made is largely unchanged). The team's own turnover rate is up nearly an identical rate as their opponents. Even if you're not reliant on three pointers, shooting 24.2% from three is never going to be a positive.

    Overall, I think one of the wild cards is Travis Warech. His last two seasons at St. Michael's were very different:

    2010-2011: 13.6 PPG, 44% FG, 40% 3-FG,
    2011-2012: 7.8 PPG, 35% FG, 27% 3-FG

    This year: 11.6 PPG, 33% FG, 1-12 on threes.

    If he can get back closer to his 2011 numbers, and Oztemel regresses back to his mean of 40% from downtown, this team is going to be really, really, tough to stop offensively. But if Warech struggles continue, or Oztemel's caught whatever affected Sean Leahy in 2009, I think we'll continue to see these uneven performances. I still think the former is more likely, and expect to see the Bombers winning the E8 crown
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 08, 2012, 09:01:34 AM
    Fisher beat Elmira last night to move to 2-0 in the conference. I was at the game and maybe it was just me but Elmira looked pretty good for an 0-7 team. Thy play defense and Fisher was ever really able to put them away.

    Either way I am glad Fisher was able to take care of business in the two home conference games against teams that figure to end in the bottom of the league standings this year. Basically holding serve. This Fisher team is way ahead of last year, but still needs to show something against the good teams on their schedule.

    I like Lott at point, even for a freshman. Plata is playing well, and Ambielli has been really good so far. Norsen is one of the better bigs around. What drives me crazy with this team is players like Kinard and Weir. When Weir is on he is great but he can be streaky. Kinard has a lot of physical gifts but is out of control too much and takes possessions off on defense.

    When Fisher shoots the ball they are going to be tough to beat. When they don't...not so much.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 09, 2012, 03:55:39 PM
    Anyone else watching this Fisher game...just terrible. Fisher has a split personality this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on December 09, 2012, 04:24:45 PM
    Empire 8 Standings right now has to be
    1. Stevens 6-1 a little Suprising for me to be at the top of the Empire 8
    2. Nazareth 7-2 expect Nazareth to be the 1 or 2 seed by the end of the year
    3. Hartwick 6-3 Hartwick will definetly be in the hunt to host
    4. Ithaca 3-3 expected more out of this team but are known to get off to a slow start
    5. St John Fisher 5-2 has a premier big guy which a lot of Division 3 teams dont have
    6. Utica 3-4 dont think they will get into the empire 8 tournament Aaron Nevins is a solid player
    7. Alfred 2-6
    8. Elmira 0-7
    9. Houghton 0-6
    Expect Stevens, Nazareth and Hartwick to be the top 3 teams in position to host at the end of the year the other 2 teams St John Fisher and Ithaca will compete for that last spot to get into the Empire 8 tournament. Top 5 teams are all solid team. Nazareth or Stevens will most likely host in my opinion will battle it out until the Final Regular season games. it is possible for 2 teams to get at large bid at the end of the year depending on other Conference tournaments and and who wins the Empire 8 tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on December 14, 2012, 08:51:55 PM
    Cortland At Nazareth and Laroche vs Ithaca 2 good games tommorow i have Nazareth by 2 71-69 and LaRoche over Ithaca by 11 79-68
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jdex on December 15, 2012, 03:44:25 PM

    Cortland 78, Nazareth 59

    Flyers within 47-44 with 13:24 to play, then scoreless over five minutes while RDragons behind B. Manning and J. Winter ignition rise to 64-47 bulge. Cruse control from there for 7-1 Corts who place four in double figures. Guests shoot over 50 percent from the field including 10x20 threes. Naz, 7-3, top producers J. Giles and M. Mills with 11 pts apiece.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on December 15, 2012, 08:55:08 PM
    Nazareth had a real tough time shooting the ball today... That was one of the Cortland teams ive seen in at least 5 years. Naz had it to 47-44 and Cortland made a big 3 in the corner and they never looked back. Its hard to win when your 2 best players combine for 16 points. Shot 19% from 3 and  field goal percentage was 38%. Next 2 games will be big for the flyers as they host Hartwick on Friday the 4th and Host Stevens the 5th of January. 2 tough games heading into the Empire
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 16, 2012, 02:40:15 PM
    Fisher dominating Pitt-Bradford through the first half. Up 29 at half time, 54-25. Fisher shooting well from 3, continuing the Jekyll and Hyde theme for this season. When they shoot like this they are really tough to beat. When they don't...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 17, 2012, 09:57:41 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 16, 2012, 02:40:15 PM
    Fisher dominating Pitt-Bradford through the first half. Up 29 at half time, 54-25. Fisher shooting well from 3, continuing the Jekyll and Hyde theme for this season. When they shoot like this they are really tough to beat. When they don't...

    True enough. No team, save Grinnell, would lose a game in which they went 17-of-34 from three point range
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 29, 2012, 08:43:18 PM
    Fisher continues to frustrate me. They went on a mini-run about mid way through the first half, and opened up an 11 point lead. Fisher looked to be taking control, Baruch took a full timeout and outscored Fisher by 8 the rest of the way. Fisher is up by three at the half, but once again, had a chance to pit a team away early, and allowed them to hang around. Hopefully Fisher can pull this out in the second half.

    Clarkson awaits the winner.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 02, 2013, 01:20:13 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 29, 2012, 08:43:18 PM
    Fisher continues to frustrate me. They went on a mini-run about mid way through the first half, and opened up an 11 point lead. Fisher looked to be taking control, Baruch took a full timeout and outscored Fisher by 8 the rest of the way. Fisher is up by three at the half, but once again, had a chance to pit a team away early, and allowed them to hang around. Hopefully Fisher can pull this out in the second half.

    Clarkson awaits the winner.

    Some of this is just the natural ebb and flow of a basketball game. If a team maintains a strong lead throughout almost all of a game and then blows it in the last five minutes, okay, yeah that's one thing (Ithaca's 09-10 team did that frequently, on both sides). But this looks like two even teams who each got one decent run in the opening half—Fisher an 11-1 one over 1:45, Baruch a 14-4 one over 5:09. Fisher and Baruch played within four points of each other for something like 37 of the 40 minutes of game time and there were eight ties.

    It's sort of like that old saying "Anecdotes don't make for good data." Runs tend to be anecdotes (at least when you're playing a team that's probably close to your equal) so it's best not to get caught up in it. If a team maintains a level of play for 15-20 minutes, okay you're onto something. But it looks like the Cardinals just had one very brief stretch of play where they hit their shots and Baruch didn't, and the rest of it was pretty closely played.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 04, 2013, 05:01:09 PM
    Nazareth wins by 4 tonight against Hartwick.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on January 07, 2013, 07:43:51 AM
    With the early slate of league games underway, any thoughts on how the E8 is going to shake out this season. It seems that Elmira and Alfred are bringing up the rear, as usual, though it looks like Elmira has played a lot of teams tough thus far, while Alfred has been getting blown out of the water.

    Also, why hasn't Houghton played any league games yet?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 07, 2013, 09:32:08 AM
    The top 5 teams in the Empire 8 i think will be Stevens, Nazareth, Ithaca,Fisher. Hartwick in that order. At the bottom half of the Empire 8 will be Utica, Elmira, Alfred, Houghton in that order.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 07, 2013, 09:57:47 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on January 07, 2013, 07:43:51 AM
    With the early slate of league games underway, any thoughts on how the E8 is going to shake out this season. It seems that Elmira and Alfred are bringing up the rear, as usual, though it looks like Elmira has played a lot of teams tough thus far, while Alfred has been getting blown out of the water.

    Also, why hasn't Houghton played any league games yet?

    Houghton has, but they're a provisional member and the games do not count in the standings. They're not good however, so it's largely irrelevant. I think dcahill's top four are correct. The Wick's early two-game hole spells trouble. Utica's 4-8, but they've lost to a lot of good teams, so they won't be an easy out. But they've also got two conference losses. I think their game Tuesday against Ithaca is an early must-win. There's some conference depth this season
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 07, 2013, 10:05:52 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on January 07, 2013, 07:43:51 AM
    With the early slate of league games underway, any thoughts on how the E8 is going to shake out this season. It seems that Elmira and Alfred are bringing up the rear, as usual, though it looks like Elmira has played a lot of teams tough thus far, while Alfred has been getting blown out of the water.

    Also, why hasn't Houghton played any league games yet?

    buck,

    Houghton has played 2 conference games against Hartwick and Stevens. They lost to Hartwick 81-73 and Stevens beat them 80-61. Houghton is a provisional member of D3 this year and consequently they are ineligible for postseason play. Their games against other E8 teams will not count in the standings and will not affect the conference won-loss records of other E8 teams. They will play a full slate of games in the conference however. Here's a quote from the article on 11-15 announcing the preseason vote on who was picked to win the league.

    "What's New?
    The 2012-23 season marks the inclusion of Houghton College as a competing Empire 8 program. The Highlanders are an NCAA provisional member and are not eligible for post-season play but will complete a full league schedule. However, games against the Highlanders will not impact conference records/standings for post-tournament seeding."

    I see Bombers beat me to the punch while I was typing. ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on January 08, 2013, 12:45:08 AM
    Thanks Bombers and Magic, I wasn't up on my D3 stuff yet, though I knew Houghton was/is not going to be a factor in this league. They're merely a space filler.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 08, 2013, 09:50:13 PM
    Bombers put together a fantastic second half and pick up a big road win at Utica, 89-71. Bombers outscore Pioneers 47-24 in the second half.

    Ithaca is hitting their stride clearly, and is showing that they are going to be a player for the conference crown. The Bombers have won 7 of their last 8 games, and guys like Oztemel are hitting their stride. Travis Warech has a huge game, scoring 24 and picking up 9 rebounds. Frank Mitchell also adds 24. He was averaging 16.6 points a game coming in, and is turning into a dominant interior player.

    The Bombers defensive intensity will be key. For the second time in three games, Ithaca turned in a bad defensive half, allowing 47 to the Pioneers. Much like the Alfred game, the Bombers clamped down in the second half.

    With three conference losses, Utica's digging a deep hole.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 09, 2013, 03:36:23 PM
    Starting the year in the Empire 8 there have been some surprises. When i saw Hartwick play twice they arent nearly as tough as last year but will definetly be much improved by the end of the season. Nazareth has a favorable next 3 games at Elmira friday, Saturday home against Utica and Tuesday at Fisher. they could definetly be 4-1 playing at Stevens 1/18 and 1/19 At Hartwick. I was definetly impressed with the toughness of Stevens watching them on Saturday. Russ Thompson is a tough Point Guard along with Patrick Sabitino and Sheldon Jones. Ithaca has won 7 of 8 sitting at 8-3 playing at home against Hobart. the Teams i just mentioned i believe will be the top 4 teams in conference going into the Empire 8 Tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 12, 2013, 10:12:29 AM
    What has happened to Hartwick? St John Fisher is a good team, and they're going to be in the conference tournament, but a 28-point loss at home? They even struggled to beat Houghton, which is 0-13.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 12, 2013, 04:51:01 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 12, 2013, 10:12:29 AM
    What has happened to Hartwick? St John Fisher is a good team, and they're going to be in the conference tournament, but a 28-point loss at home? They even struggled to beat Houghton, which is 0-13.

    Watched every second of the game last night and I was not all that impressed with Hartwick. Fisher started the game really slow, and basically gave Hartwick a 12 point lead to start the game. Otherwise it would have been that much worse.

    Fisher played well all in all, but far from a complete game and still was able to win the way they did.

    Today Fisher started slow again, and has worked their way back into the game, but are facing a much better team in Stevens. Currently down 5 with about 2 left in the first half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 12, 2013, 04:58:56 PM
    Fisher continues to frustrate me to no end. Weir hits a three with less than a minute left to cut the Stevens lead to 3. Fisher proceeds to give a bad and 1 with the Stevens payer not even facing the basket, throws away an inbounds pass, and gives up a tip in as the clock expires to go into the locker room down 8.

    Argh....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 12, 2013, 05:57:28 PM
    Bombers pick up a huge OOC win, beating a good Hobart team 80-74. Travis Warech is turning into an offensive force, as he puts up 21 with 11 rebounds. Andrei Oztemel shows why he's one of the best pure shooters in IC history, with a 6-of-12 performance from downtown. Bombers are on a roll, as they improve to 9-3.

    The Bombers have played well at home, and now go on the road for three conference games. With two of the games being Elmira and Alfred, I think it's likely the Bombers are 11-4 at worst.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 13, 2013, 12:10:57 PM
    Ithaca really is coming on to start the Empire 8 season after a win against a very good Hobart team. Stevens I think will be ranked this week after the win against Fisher. Nazareth beat a quality Utica team regardless of their record they are tough to get a win against. Nazareth plays at Fisher Tuesday in a Big game for both teams. The Clear 3 best teams in this league are Stevens/Ithaca and Nazareth  in that order. Fisher I think will be the 4th team in the Empire 8 championship which will set up Stevens/Fisher and Ithaca/Nazareth. 3 very good teams team In this league and I think everyone can tell me who they are.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 13, 2013, 07:02:15 PM
    any ideas on who will be Player of the Year and First Team in the Empire 8?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 13, 2013, 10:33:58 PM
    Brad Ford (19-10) and C. Cassidy (17-8) are good picks for POY. I'd bet Ford right now. Sean Rossi will be the first-team point guard for the third straight season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: ecrugger on January 15, 2013, 09:56:43 PM
    What happened in Elmira tonight? That was unexpected.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 15, 2013, 11:25:54 PM
    Nazareth wins against Fisher 66-56 in an unbelievable battle of the beaks and Ithaca gets stunned by elmire 72-66
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 16, 2013, 03:47:30 PM
    Quote from: ecrugger on January 15, 2013, 09:56:43 PM
    What happened in Elmira tonight? That was unexpected.

    Happened last season too...

    Ithaca's two leading scorers went 6-for-21 from the floor, and as a team, the Bombers were 9-of-16 from the FT line when the game was still up for grabs, as opposed to the close to 75% they were shooting heading into the game. Those three points could have changed a lot. 

    Still, it's mind-blowing that Ithaca could blow an 11-point second half lead to a team like Elmira. Last season, Ithaca played its best basketball after the Elmira loss. Hopefully that happens again
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 19, 2013, 04:44:41 PM
    Bombers pick up a big win, topping Fisher 90-87 to get back on track. Seems like Elmira just presents Ithaca with some matchup problems.

    Travis Warech drops 28, and is turning into a real force offensively. That's the 3rd time in 4 games he's scored at least 21 points. His PPG average has gone up from 10.7 to 13.8 in that span. He's now Ithaca's second leading scorer.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 20, 2013, 04:55:15 PM
    After this weekend my Top 10 teams in the East Region
    1. Rochester 16-0 I hope there in no argument here  ;)
    2. Stevens 14-1 many quality wins and 3 players averaging over 14 a game
    3. Cortland 12-3 one of many teams that could win the SUNYAC 
    4. NYU even though they are 2-3 in the UAA have quality wins including Stevens
    5. Oswego State Questionable SOS but Hayden Ward puts them in my top 5
    6. Union Very Questionable SOS but a Fabulous record puts them in my top 6
    7. Clarkson, 8. Ithaca, 9. Nazareth, 10. Plattsburgh
    I think the top 2 teams in the region are Elite. I Still have questions about Union and Clarkson. Ithaca is definetly a Dangerous team watch out for them if they can sneak into the NCAA Tournament 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 20, 2013, 09:33:28 PM
    After Stevens beating Nazareth and Houghton this weekend they improve to 14-1. Nazareth really hurt me this weekend after falling to 11-6 after losses to Stevens and Hartwick. Before the weekend i would have predicted Naz to lose to Stevens and win against Hartwick. Nazareth has a favorable schedule in the 2nd half of the Empire 8 season. Coach Mullins and Ithaca must have nightmares about Elmira after they lost to them last year as well ;)  . Ithaca definetly came back strong after a good win At St John Fisher. I really think Ithaca will win the Majority of there final games and get an at large bid if they dont win their conference. Hartwick is starting to play very well after winning 4 of their last 5 and could definetly challenge Fisher for that 4th final spot in the Empire 8 Tournament
    Go Naz
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 21, 2013, 07:48:47 AM
    Looks increasingly like we have five teams for four spots...Stevens, Ithaca, Fisher, Naz, and the Wick. I'm not grouping Utica in there despite their conference record suggesting otherwise, because a 6-11 overall record makes me wary that they can put it together.

    Ithaca's got a rough schedule coming up. They have six games against the Wick, Stevens, and Naz, and a good Scranton team. However, I think their sweep of Fisher makes it unlikely they fall out completely. Fisher better be careful.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 22, 2013, 06:54:42 PM
    Alfred beating St John Fisher 35-32 at half
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 23, 2013, 07:42:55 AM
    What a mess the E8 is right now...

    The second through sixth place teams are all.500, and with three of them at 4-4, it's going to be a real fight to the finish. Only Ithaca and Stevens seem safe to me at this point, but even the Bombers have a lot of tough games left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 23, 2013, 12:47:24 PM
    To backtrack a bit...

    So, this Keuka/Houghton game on 1/9. Can I reiterate how much I hate teams fouling when a game is out of reach and referees either not calling intentional fouls or letting it go? I'm not talking down six with a minute to go, where a game is within reach. I mean, down by 19 with 25 seconds to go, 20 with 13 seconds to go, or, I kid you not, down by 23 with one second to go (all these were situations Houghton fouled in). Especially when the other team is making free throws.

    Seriously, let it go (teams and refs). It is not a "never give up attitude." It's not possible to make up a 19 point deficit in 25 seconds unless the other team decided to pick up half a dozen technicals. Literally, the time it would take you to get the ball and make seven baskets is longer than 25 seconds. Officials need to either let it go, or start calling intentional fouls. Teams just turn games into sideshows, all because what, they saw that one Duke/Maryland game?

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 23, 2013, 12:56:00 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 23, 2013, 12:47:24 PM
    To backtrack a bit...

    So, this Keuka/Houghton game on 1/9. Can I reiterate how much I hate teams fouling when a game is out of reach and referees either not calling intentional fouls or letting it go? I'm not talking down six with a minute to go, where a game is within reach. I mean, down by 19 with 25 seconds to go, 20 with 13 seconds to go, or, I kid you not, down by 23 with one second to go (all these were situations Houghton fouled in). Especially when the other team is making free throws.

    Seriously, let it go (teams and refs). It is not a "never give up attitude." It's not possible to make up a 19 point deficit in 25 seconds unless the other team decided to pick up half a dozen technicals. Literally, the time it would take you to get the ball and make seven baskets is longer than 25 seconds. Officials need to either let it go, or start calling intentional fouls. Teams just turn games into sideshows, all because what, they saw that one Duke/Maryland game?

    Yeah, that's a little insane
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 23, 2013, 02:40:24 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 23, 2013, 12:47:24 PM
    To backtrack a bit...

    So, this Keuka/Houghton game on 1/9. Can I reiterate how much I hate teams fouling when a game is out of reach and referees either not calling intentional fouls or letting it go? I'm not talking down six with a minute to go, where a game is within reach. I mean, down by 19 with 25 seconds to go, 20 with 13 seconds to go, or, I kid you not, down by 23 with one second to go (all these were situations Houghton fouled in). Especially when the other team is making free throws.

    Seriously, let it go (teams and refs). It is not a "never give up attitude." It's not possible to make up a 19 point deficit in 25 seconds unless the other team decided to pick up half a dozen technicals. Literally, the time it would take you to get the ball and make seven baskets is longer than 25 seconds. Officials need to either let it go, or start calling intentional fouls. Teams just turn games into sideshows, all because what, they saw that one Duke/Maryland game?

    I agree completely as we've seen this happen way too many times. And on occasion a key player on the winning team ends up with an injury because of the useless fouls. This situation is on the shoulders of one person, the losing team's coach. All he has to do is say to his players, NO FOULS.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2013, 01:04:37 PM
    If anyone interested, Stevens will be featured on Hoopsville tonight. Show starts at 7 PM EST at www.d3hoopsville.com (http://www.d3hoopsville.com).

    Follow us on Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) and #hoopsville
    Follow us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)
    Email us: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 25, 2013, 08:50:09 PM
    Bombers up on Stevens at the half 41-37. Ithaca closes on a 12-0 run.

    Here's all I'm going to say by way of analysis, since I'm not at the game:

    Ithaca has shot 20 free throws. Stevens has shot one. Stevens has also picked up a technical foul. Do with that information what you will
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 25, 2013, 08:59:51 PM
    Elmira up 40-26 on the Wick at the half? Holy cow

    Utica leads Fisher 45-38

    Naz only up 4 on Alfred 39-35
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 25, 2013, 09:16:41 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 25, 2013, 08:59:51 PM
    Elmira up 40-26 on the Wick at the half? Holy cow

    Utica leads Fisher 45-38

    Naz only up 4 on Alfred 39-35

    Hasn't Elmira been close a lot this year?  Maybe they found a way to get over the hump
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 25, 2013, 09:55:56 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on January 25, 2013, 09:16:41 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 25, 2013, 08:59:51 PM
    Elmira up 40-26 on the Wick at the half? Holy cow

    Utica leads Fisher 45-38

    Naz only up 4 on Alfred 39-35

    Hasn't Elmira been close a lot this year?  Maybe they found a way to get over the hump

    Fisher comes back to top Utica 79-69.

    It was upset night in the rest of the Empire 8.

    Elmira (4-13) obliterates Hartwick (11-6) 88-62. Winning the rebound battle by 15 is a big reason why

    Bombers take down 20th-ranked Stevens 80-69. Ithaca shoots 33 free throws to Stevens' 13. But here's what's weird: The foul disparity was only 21-15, and it was 18-15 with 44 seconds to go and Ithaca up 76-67 when Stevens started fouling. Interesting.

    Alfred (4-13) tops Nazareth (11-7) 80-76. Saxons go 12-of-18 from three and commit only four turnovers.

    Ithaca is showing how good they can be. Five players finish in double figures, and Tom Sweeney adds nine. Bombers are now 12-4 overall, and 11-2 in their last 13
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 26, 2013, 04:40:38 PM
    Ithaca is taking Hartwick to the woodshed.. Bombers lead 41-20 at the break, without Andrei Oztemel. Have the Hawks been exposed? They allow Elmira to score the most points they've scored in 10 years, and now are getting lit up by a Bomber team not playing one of its leading scorers. Ithaca's really good, but this is an ugly effort by Hartwick
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 26, 2013, 05:32:23 PM
    Bombers win 75-54. Travis Warech scores 21.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 27, 2013, 09:45:51 AM
    The E8 is officially a mess. Fisher, Utica, Naz, and Hartwick are indistinguishable at this point. Any of them could make or miss the tournament and I wouldn't be surprised. Ithaca and Stevens are the only two squads that have distinguished themselves. Really an unimpressive middle of the pack
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 27, 2013, 11:27:36 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 27, 2013, 09:45:51 AM
    The E8 is officially a mess. Fisher, Utica, Naz, and Hartwick are indistinguishable at this point. Any of them could make or miss the tournament and I wouldn't be surprised. Ithaca and Stevens are the only two squads that have distinguished themselves. Really an unimpressive middle of the pack

    Any idea why Hartwick has fallen so hard?  I checked and it looks like they only lost 3 seniors from last years team so they should have plenty of guys who know how to win.  Was Blazek that important?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 27, 2013, 05:43:57 PM
    My top 4 team in the E8 Stay the same after the weekend. in order my top 4 teams are Ithaca, Stevens, Naz, Fisher. even though Naz has lost there last 4. I think they are hungry for next weekends game at Home vs Ithaca to prove themselves, not saying they will win but will definetly have a chance to beat Ithaca.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 27, 2013, 06:15:58 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on January 27, 2013, 05:43:57 PM
    My top 4 team in the E8 Stay the same after the weekend. in order my top 4 teams are Ithaca, Stevens, Naz, Fisher. even though Naz has lost there last 4. I think they are hungry for next weekends game at Home vs Ithaca to prove themselves, not saying they will win but will definetly have a chance to beat Ithaca.

    Dude, I'm going to +K you just for your eternal optimism regarding Naz....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 27, 2013, 06:53:32 PM
    what do you mean +k?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 27, 2013, 06:59:54 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on January 27, 2013, 06:53:32 PM
    what do you mean +k?

    karma
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 27, 2013, 08:15:18 PM
    Elmira isnt a bad team even with though there record is bad. same thing with Utica. Both teams have good players. Utica could even sneak in the Empire 8 tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 30, 2013, 08:02:11 PM
    Nazareth has a HUGE game at home this friday against Ithaca. Oztemel was in a walking boot last night and from sources i heard Warech severely sprained his ankle. If Warech and Oztemel i think Naz can definetly get a win. Still Rossi, Mitchell and Sweeney to deal with though. Naz will have a tough game regardless the injuries. Still deciding who i think the best team is in the E8 Ithaca or Stevens. I really like Stevens but will watch Ithaca live in person this friday.
    Go Naz
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 02, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
    Well after Utica losing and Naz beating Ithaca Naz moves into 4th seed in the empire 8. I think Naz will get past Fisher and get the 3 seed in the Empire 8 Tournament. Stevens will get the 1 seed, 2 will be Ithaca, 3 Naz, and 4th Fisher. the only reason I put Stevens 1st is because how bad Ithaca is banged up.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: buck1053 on February 10, 2013, 08:45:02 PM
    So, I was looking at the regional rankings and the Massey ratings and I was curious about how that all shook out, as the Massey ratings have some teams higher than others, while the regional rankings don't reflect that same lineup. I'm assuming it's because the ratings are through this weekend's games and the rankings came out before that.

    EAST                  
    1   Rochester (N.Y.)   18-1   19-1         
    2   SUNY Cortland   17-2   17-3         
    3   Stevens Institute of Technology   15-3   17-3         
    4   New York University   13-7   13-7         
    5   Hobart   12-6   13-6         
    6   SUNY Geneseo   14-6   14-7

    Now, U of R is 20-2, having gone 1-1 since the rankings came out. Of course, the loss is out of region, against Wash U today, and the win is out of region as well, correct?
    Cortland is 19-3, two wins in region
    Stevens is 20-3, with their three wins all in region
    NYU is 13-9, both of their losses were out of region, right?
    Hobart is 16-6, their three wins are in region
    Geneseo is 14-9, and both of their losses were in region.

    Now, according to the latest Massey ratings, through Feb. 9, the top 10 teams in East, I believe (don't shoot me if I'm wrong, I don't usually try to figure such things out, but I was curious so I gave it a shot. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though) are:

    1) U of R (Massey rating 6, sure to drop with today's loss by 19)
    2) Cortland (21)
    3) Stevens (48)
    4) Hobart (60)
    5) Union (74)
    6) NYU (75)
    7) Plattsburgh (78)
    8) Oswego (87)
    9) Ithaca (103)
    10) Brockport (107)

    Geneseo, which was sixth in the regional rankings, was 12th in the East in the Massey ratings at 128, behind Buffalo State which was rated 122nd.

    I'm assuming the next regional rankings will have the same top 5, though, since U of R and NYU's games were out of region, right? And my other question is who the 6th team will be in the next rankings? I mean, according to Massey, it would be Union, but since their schedule strength is low, wouldn't Plattsburgh or Oswego seem more likely to get into the top 6?

    Again, just curious how this is all shaking out. I appreciate the enlightenment from the much more informed board members.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 11, 2013, 06:03:31 AM
    Quote from: buck1053 on February 10, 2013, 08:45:02 PM
    So, I was looking at the regional rankings and the Massey ratings and I was curious about how that all shook out, as the Massey ratings have some teams higher than others, while the regional rankings don't reflect that same lineup. I'm assuming it's because the ratings are through this weekend's games and the rankings came out before that.

    EAST                  
    1   Rochester (N.Y.)   18-1   19-1         
    2   SUNY Cortland   17-2   17-3         
    3   Stevens Institute of Technology   15-3   17-3         
    4   New York University   13-7   13-7         
    5   Hobart   12-6   13-6         
    6   SUNY Geneseo   14-6   14-7

    Now, U of R is 20-2, having gone 1-1 since the rankings came out. Of course, the loss is out of region, against Wash U today, and the win is out of region as well, correct?
    Cortland is 19-3, two wins in region
    Stevens is 20-3, with their three wins all in region
    NYU is 13-9, both of their losses were out of region, right?
    Hobart is 16-6, their three wins are in region
    Geneseo is 14-9, and both of their losses were in region.

    Now, according to the latest Massey ratings, through Feb. 9, the top 10 teams in East, I believe (don't shoot me if I'm wrong, I don't usually try to figure such things out, but I was curious so I gave it a shot. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though) are:

    1) U of R (Massey rating 6, sure to drop with today's loss by 19)
    2) Cortland (21)
    3) Stevens (48)
    4) Hobart (60)
    5) Union (74)
    6) NYU (75)
    7) Plattsburgh (78)
    8) Oswego (87)
    9) Ithaca (103)
    10) Brockport (107)

    Geneseo, which was sixth in the regional rankings, was 12th in the East in the Massey ratings at 128, behind Buffalo State which was rated 122nd.

    I'm assuming the next regional rankings will have the same top 5, though, since U of R and NYU's games were out of region, right? And my other question is who the 6th team will be in the next rankings? I mean, according to Massey, it would be Union, but since their schedule strength is low, wouldn't Plattsburgh or Oswego seem more likely to get into the top 6?

    Again, just curious how this is all shaking out. I appreciate the enlightenment from the much more informed board members.

    NYU and Uof R league games are counted as in region. As for Rochester losing to WashU this weekend, I don't think they have ever won both games of the Chicago/St. Louis weekend and losing to ranked WashU is better than losing to Chicago.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 11, 2013, 09:43:53 AM
    Anyone get a chance to see Stevens/Ithaca this weekend?  I know Ithaca is banged up but even hurt I didn't think Ithaca was 20 points worse than Stevens.  Looks like the big difference for the Ducks this year is the Sabbatino (sp?) kid inside, complimenting the Thompson/Jones backcourt.  How's he compare to Smith from last year, who was a 1,000 pt/ 1,000 rebound guy for Stevens? 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 11, 2013, 10:32:22 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 11, 2013, 09:43:53 AM
    Anyone get a chance to see Stevens/Ithaca this weekend?  I know Ithaca is banged up but even hurt I didn't think Ithaca was 20 points worse than Stevens.  Looks like the big difference for the Ducks this year is the Sabbatino (sp?) kid inside, complimenting the Thompson/Jones backcourt.  How's he compare to Smith from last year, who was a 1,000 pt/ 1,000 rebound guy for Stevens?

    The team is missing nearly 40% of its scoring and one of its best defenders. Travis Warech was probably playing the best basketball in the conference when he was hurt. In his last 8 games prior to the injury, he was averaging 19.8 PPG and playing great defense. Oztemel is probably the best three-point shooter in school history, and his absence really hurts the Bombers' outside.

    Injuries are a part of the game, but this was a Top-25 caliber team that has seen their season essentially sabotaged if they don't at least get Warech back.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Cyclone0205 on February 11, 2013, 11:15:43 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 11, 2013, 10:32:22 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 11, 2013, 09:43:53 AM
    Anyone get a chance to see Stevens/Ithaca this weekend?  I know Ithaca is banged up but even hurt I didn't think Ithaca was 20 points worse than Stevens.  Looks like the big difference for the Ducks this year is the Sabbatino (sp?) kid inside, complimenting the Thompson/Jones backcourt.  How's he compare to Smith from last year, who was a 1,000 pt/ 1,000 rebound guy for Stevens?

    The team is missing nearly 40% of its scoring and one of its best defenders. Travis Warech was probably playing the best basketball in the conference when he was hurt. In his last 8 games prior to the injury, he was averaging 19.8 PPG and playing great defense. Oztemel is probably the best three-point shooter in school history, and his absence really hurts the Bombers' outside.

    Injuries are a part of the game, but this was a Top-25 caliber team that has seen their season essentially sabotaged if they don't at least get Warech back.

    Bombers - Thanks for the info.  Haven't really seen too much of the E8, didn't realize how much they were missing.  Did both play in the first game against Stevens this season?

    That being said, and I know anything can happen and the Ducks have been known to fold in the post-season, but if Ithaca isn't healthy is the E8 basically the Ducks and then everyone else?  Any other contenders?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 11, 2013, 12:37:30 PM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 11, 2013, 11:15:43 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 11, 2013, 10:32:22 AM
    Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 11, 2013, 09:43:53 AM
    Anyone get a chance to see Stevens/Ithaca this weekend?  I know Ithaca is banged up but even hurt I didn't think Ithaca was 20 points worse than Stevens.  Looks like the big difference for the Ducks this year is the Sabbatino (sp?) kid inside, complimenting the Thompson/Jones backcourt.  How's he compare to Smith from last year, who was a 1,000 pt/ 1,000 rebound guy for Stevens?

    The team is missing nearly 40% of its scoring and one of its best defenders. Travis Warech was probably playing the best basketball in the conference when he was hurt. In his last 8 games prior to the injury, he was averaging 19.8 PPG and playing great defense. Oztemel is probably the best three-point shooter in school history, and his absence really hurts the Bombers' outside.

    Injuries are a part of the game, but this was a Top-25 caliber team that has seen their season essentially sabotaged if they don't at least get Warech back.

    Bombers - Thanks for the info.  Haven't really seen too much of the E8, didn't realize how much they were missing.  Did both play in the first game against Stevens this season?

    That being said, and I know anything can happen and the Ducks have been known to fold in the post-season, but if Ithaca isn't healthy is the E8 basically the Ducks and then everyone else?  Any other contenders?

    Oztemel + Warech had 26 and 16 combined in Ithaca's win over Stevens, playing 54 minutes. With them out, you're seeing more playing time going to players who probably aren't at that level yet.

    This makes a situation like Tom Sweeney's foul issues even more glaring because it leaves you with few options if he has to go to the bench or become more passive due to foul problems.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 12, 2013, 05:04:18 PM
    Nazareth vs St John Fisher Battle Of the Beaks I'm going with Naz 61-59
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 12, 2013, 05:24:07 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on February 12, 2013, 05:04:18 PM
    Nazareth vs St John Fisher Battle Of the Beaks I'm going with Naz 61-59

    Fisher has struggled with Naz over the last few years. Tonight will be a real test to see where they stand. A third loss to Naz would really sting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 15, 2013, 08:05:24 AM
    Anyone know why the Fisher Men's and Women's game times are switched this weekend? I am going to be in Rochester this weekend and was going to try and catch a game, but won't be able to now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 18, 2013, 11:14:16 PM
    Congratulations to Sean Rossi, who, barring some sort of freak injury, will set the all-time D-III assists record some time early in the E8 semifinals. A fantastic point guard whose ability to score is overlooked by his pass-first mentality.A well-deserved honor
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 19, 2013, 12:48:22 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 18, 2013, 11:14:16 PM
    Congratulations to Sean Rossi, who, barring some sort of freak injury, will set the all-time D-III assists record some time early in the E8 semifinals. A fantastic point guard whose ability to score is overlooked by his pass-first mentality.A well-deserved honor

    You can not argue with that kind of production. That is a great accomplishment. Congrats!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 19, 2013, 06:27:16 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 19, 2013, 12:48:22 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 18, 2013, 11:14:16 PM
    Congratulations to Sean Rossi, who, barring some sort of freak injury, will set the all-time D-III assists record some time early in the E8 semifinals. A fantastic point guard whose ability to score is overlooked by his pass-first mentality.A well-deserved honor

    You can not argue with that kind of production. That is a great accomplishment. Congrats!

    Ditto
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on February 21, 2013, 12:32:29 PM
    Congrats to Sean Rossi for a great career. 

    As an "asterisk", in the College Division days (before 1975) Mike Deane recorded 1024 assists in four seasons (219 at Hobart in 1969-70, and 805 in three seasons at Potsdam (1971-74).  This was against teams with scholarship rosters (Siena, Hartwick), and players such as Randy Smith and Marvin Webster.

    Back in those days, before the three point line, the only time an assist was credited on a perimeter jump shot was a feed on the fast break to an open spot shooter in the corner.  Not like today when an assist is credited when the PG penetrates and kicks to an open shooter at the arc.

    Magicman is familiar with Mike's passing ability, which translated to the next level, he was drafted by the Milwaukee Bucks, was in Utah rookie Camp with Moses Malone, and also played semi-pro and CBA for a number of years after college.

    Recently inducted into the NYS basketball coaches Hall of Fame.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2013, 03:37:02 PM
    Quote from: thebear on February 21, 2013, 12:32:29 PM
    Congrats to Sean Rossi for a great career. 

    As an "asterisk", in the College Division days (before 1975) Mike Deane recorded 1024 assists in four seasons (219 at Hobart in 1969-70, and 805 in three seasons at Potsdam (1971-74).  This was against teams with scholarship rosters (Siena, Hartwick), and players such as Randy Smith and Marvin Webster.

    Even more asterisky ... if that's a word ... the assist wasn't an official stat until 1983-84, other than a couple years in the '50s.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 21, 2013, 04:43:12 PM
    Board members if you would like to tune in tonight im going to be on Hoopsville around 830.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on February 21, 2013, 09:28:52 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2013, 03:37:02 PM
    Quote from: thebear on February 21, 2013, 12:32:29 PM
    Congrats to Sean Rossi for a great career. 

    As an "asterisk", in the College Division days (before 1975) Mike Deane recorded 1024 assists in four seasons (219 at Hobart in 1969-70, and 805 in three seasons at Potsdam (1971-74).  This was against teams with scholarship rosters (Siena, Hartwick), and players such as Randy Smith and Marvin Webster.

    Even more asterisky ... if that's a word ... the assist wasn't an official stat until 1983-84, other than a couple years in the '50s.

    Regardless, I have stats going back to 1971, and assists are included each and every year, so they must have been important to someone (coaches?).  I also have offensive efficiency ratings (aka basketball sabrmetrics) back in the 1960's which were also important to coaches.

    I also lived through the Ernie D era, and his game, including the NBA was all based on assists.

    Trust me, Deane was Ernie D's equal, just ask Magic.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 22, 2013, 06:42:00 AM
    Quote from: thebear on February 21, 2013, 12:32:29 PM
    Congrats to Sean Rossi for a great career. 

    As an "asterisk", in the College Division days (before 1975) Mike Deane recorded 1024 assists in four seasons (219 at Hobart in 1969-70, and 805 in three seasons at Potsdam (1971-74).  This was against teams with scholarship rosters (Siena, Hartwick), and players such as Randy Smith and Marvin Webster.

    Back in those days, before the three point line, the only time an assist was credited on a perimeter jump shot was a feed on the fast break to an open spot shooter in the corner.  Not like today when an assist is credited when the PG penetrates and kicks to an open shooter at the arc.

    Magicman is familiar with Mike's passing ability, which translated to the next level, he was drafted by the Milwaukee Bucks, was in Utah rookie Camp with Moses Malone, and also played semi-pro and CBA for a number of years after college.

    Recently inducted into the NYS basketball coaches Hall of Fame.

    Sean Rossi certainly deserves to be applauded for his record setting assist total, but to us old timers the standard for assists will always be Mike Deane. And I'm not trying to belittle Sean's accomplishment because what he has done is truly memorable and doesn't come along very often. He has had an outstanding career at Ithaca and will go down in history as one of the Bomber greats. It's too bad that the Bombers sufffered some key injuries which may keep them out of the NCAA tournament this year if they lose the E8 tournament. They certainly had the potential when healthy to compete with the top clubs in the region.

    As the bear mentioned Deane's assist total for 3 years at Potsdam State was 805 and in checking with NCAA records for the year he played at Hobart he was credited with 226 for that season as the Hobart statistician wrote:  "Deane made the assist category anything but optional with a season total of 226 for a 10.8/game average. His high game was 19 assists versus Hamilton on 2/21/70."

    Deane's total career assist total would be 1031 for his 4 year career. I believe he played in a total of 101 games and many of them were against scholarship schools as bear mentioned.

    Now the most amazing thing about recording over a thousand assists in a 4 year career is the fact that he was the leading scorer on his team for those years as well. With the exception of his freshman year at Hobart, when he scored 239 points in 21 games, and was the 2nd leading scorer on the team, he was the top scorer his sophomore, junior and senior seasons, amassing another 1447 points with Potsdam to average 18.0 ppg for the Bears along with his 10.06 assists per game. That's not a misprint.... Mike AVERAGED a double-double for his ENTIRE career. If there had been a 3 point shot back then I'm sure his career total of 1686 points probably would have approached 2000, and his assist total would easily have been 100 to 150 more than it was. He shot 46% from the field for his career and 78% from the free throw line. Mike was only listed at 6'0" and I believe if he had been just a bit taller he would have had a decent career in the NBA. He wasn't the fastest guy on the court but he rarely committed a turnover either as his ball handling skills were 2nd to none.

    Having seen Mike play for most of his collegiate career and then another 15 years of semipro ball at Plattsburgh's annual PBA Tournament made one truly appreciate the art of the pass. And not just any pass. I'm talking the thread the needle passes, the behind the back, no look passes, the bounce passes between the defenders legs to a wide open post player, and the passes to the guy on the other side of the court that only Deane could see was wide open. I seen lots of great passers in all levels of basketball. I've never seen one that was any better than Mike Deane. When you left a game that he played in you always felt you got your money's worth, because you always had at least a handful of those head shaking moments of how'd he do that, no one can do that...but Deane could and did and had the crowd right in his hip pocket.

    His record as a coach at the Division 1 level is also exemplary as he has a 506-365 collegiate coaching record and among coaches still active in college basketball, Deane ranks in the top 30 for career victories at four-year institutions with a mark of 437-332.  He is one of only 28 coaches in NCAA history to guide three different schools to the NCAA Tournament. The 1988-89 Siena Saints received a No. 14 seed in the NCAA Tournament and knocked off No. 3 Stanford 80-78. At the time it was the biggest upset in NCAA tournament history  He was selected as a December, 2012 inductee into the Siena Athletic Hall of Fame. Today Mike is an assistant coach at James Madison University where he is helping out one of his old Siena players, Coach Matt Brady. The Dukes are currently in 4th place in the Colonial Athletic Conference.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 22, 2013, 11:57:50 AM
    6PM 2.Plattsburgh State vs 3.Geneseo at Cortland... Plattsburgh wins by 7
    8PM 4.Oswego State at 1.Cortland... Cortland wins by 9
    6PM 4.Utica at 1.Stevens... Stevens by 5. Utica has chance tonight but dont think they will be able to guard Stevens.
    8PM 2.Ithaca vs 3. St John Fisher... this game will be the best of the night i think Ithaca wins by 3

    Tommorrow
    1.Hobart vs 3.RPI... Hobart wins by 13 and gets the automatic bid. think they can make a run in the NCAAs depending on the matchup.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on February 22, 2013, 12:55:27 PM
    +K Magic.

    One other tidbit, in his senior year '73-74, coach Welsh played Mike as a small forward, so that they could run the delay game (pre shot clock days) when they got a lead.

    If Potsdam got the lead, they would run an offense called four to score, where Deane would run four corners brilliantly until someone made a mistake and their man was open, then bang the ball was there for a layup or easy open shot.

    In 1973-74 as a 6-0/6-1 guard, he had over 150 rebounds in a 27 game season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 22, 2013, 07:47:30 PM
    Stevens buries Utica College 102-66. This game was close for the first 15 minutes but the Ducks went on a 22-7 run in the final 5 minutes of the 1st period  to open up a 16 point halftime lead at 48-32. They quickly widened it to 20 in the early 2nd half and just kept building it to a 30 plus MOV. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 22, 2013, 07:55:09 PM
    Haven't made it on here in a while...

    Here's hoping IC can pull it out against Fisher.  Lets go Bombers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 22, 2013, 09:52:47 PM
    Ithaca defeats Fisher 70-63 to advance to the title game against Stevens in what will be the rubber match between the 2 E8 leaders.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 22, 2013, 10:04:34 PM
    Bombers take care of St. John Fisher, 70-63. Down 31-30 at the break, Ithaca comes out roaring, opening the second half on a 10-1 run. Fisher never gets closer than six the rest of the way. Ithaca hits their free throws down the stretch to close it out and improve to 18-8 on the season.

    With Warech and Oztemel back, I expect a great E8 Title game. Don't forget, a full-strength Bombers team beat Stevens earlier this season (albeit in Ithaca). I think Ithaca can pull it off tomorrow.

    Sean Rossi sets the all-time Division III record for assists, finishing with 9. He'll get a chance to pad the total further tomorrow. Frank Mitchell leads the way with 21 points.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on February 22, 2013, 10:16:23 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on February 22, 2013, 10:04:34 PM
    Bombers take care of St. John Fisher, 70-63. Down 31-30 at the break, Ithaca comes out roaring, opening the second half on a 10-1 run. Fisher never gets closer than six the rest of the way. Ithaca hits their free throws down the stretch to close it out and improve to 18-8 on the season.

    With Warech and Oztemel back, I expect a great E8 Title game. Don't forget, a full-strength Bombers team beat Stevens earlier this season (albeit in Ithaca). I think Ithaca can pull it off tomorrow.

    Sean Rossi sets the all-time Division III record for assists, finishing with 9. He'll get a chance to pad the total further tomorrow. Frank Mitchell leads the way with 21 points.

    Agreed.  They were outmatched two weeks ago but Warech is a difference maker.  Jones was a beast for Stevens today, IC will need to contain him.

    Rossi the all time D3 assists leader and a playoff win against Fisher.  Nights don't get too much better than this for the men's program.  Great night.  Lets get another one tomorrow. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 23, 2013, 04:45:23 PM
    At the start of the year, I predicted a 20-win season, regular season and conference crowns for the Bombers, and an NCAA win. While injuries cost them the regular-season crown, the rest looks like it may happen.

    The Bombers essentially lead wire-to-wire and take care of Stevens 70-55. Stevens' fans got a taste of what was missing the last time the Bombers came to town, as Travis Warech puts up 25 points and 10 rebounds. Seven more assists for Sean Rossi, as he continues to pad his totals.

    This Ithaca team is legit. They're 19-8, and would probably be 22-5 if the lineup they have now is healthy all season. Don't sleep on them in the NCAAs...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 24, 2013, 11:35:40 AM
    Coach Mullins and Ithaca has won the E8 championship the last 2 years... i think this years team is by far better than last year. with Sweeney starting for Healey Ithaca's starting lineup are All League Caliber players. I expect Ithaca to make a Run in the tournament and lose in the Sweet 16.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 25, 2013, 03:33:09 PM
    So, IC takes on Springfield. Gotta say, I like Ithaca's chances. All of the following is based on never having seen Springfield, and basically is me scouting a stat sheet

    1. Seems like the Pride struggle to score. 69 PPG isn't bad, but it seems like a lot of that was based on a few high-scoring games early and some OT games. If you look at the median number of points scored in regulation, Springfield is at 66, Ithaca at 74. Springfield has broken the 70 point barrier in regulation once in its last 15 games. I think the scoring disparity is wider than it may appear.     

    2. Springfield is dreadful beyond the arc. Its three heaviest three point shooters are shooting a combined 25.8% from three. Nick Sienkiewicz seems to be the only serious deep threat (19-of-45). Ithaca's got a clear advantage deep. Seems like you're not likely to see Springfield get hot from downtown and win that way.

    *Side note. I never understand teams that let guys who aren't great at three-pointers shoot them so much. Rote shot 26.5% last season on 102 shots, and is 22.4% of 99 this year. Considering  he shot 44% and 41% from the floor overall, it seems highly inefficient to have him shooting so frequently from three. Berthiaume was 33% and 27% on 126 and 99 these last two years. Altman was 21% last year, and 28% this season.

    3. The Pride seem much more aggressive on defense, however (346 combined blocks and steals, compared to 266 for Ithaca). This is in line with their better defense, especially from two. Springfield's opponents are shooting 42% from inside the arc, compared to 48% from Ithaca. Neither team seems to have a clear advantage at the line.

    I like the Bombers here. It just seems like Springfield struggles to top 70 points, something the Bombers have been able to do with regularity when they've got everyone healthy. This isn't like last years squad, which honestly, was overmatched and had to try and win a three-point shooting contest by having Oztemel and Marcus gun up 27 combined threes. This team is a 22-5 team masquerading as an 19-8 one.

    Bombers win, 75-67
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 28, 2013, 10:35:45 AM
    Good luck to both E8 schools this weekend. Ithaca seems to be clicking at the right time. Stevens has a tough matchup with RMC but playing close to home could be the difference in the game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: y_jack_lok on March 02, 2013, 03:55:35 PM
    Stevens is a good team that seemed to play tight the first 10 minutes and turned the ball over too much early in the game, giving Randolph-Macon a chance to keep a slim lead. Then after overcoming a 16 point deficit early in the second half and taking a couple of one point leads, Stevens couldn't maintain the momentum. Randolph-Macon was fortunate to do just enough to get the lead back then make clutch free throws at the end.

    Very nice job by the Empire 8 announcers.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jdex on March 02, 2013, 04:48:11 PM

    Randolph-Macon 69, Stevens 60
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 02, 2013, 09:03:28 PM
    Stunning.

    Bombers trail 59-50 with 12 minutes to go, then go on a 15-0 run, and close it out to win 89-77. Travis Warech with 25 points and 15 rebounds in 39 minutes.

    Jordan Rote did not play for Springfield, and that clearly hurt, but the Pride still had their chances. They went 11-of-21 from the line (Ithaca goes 25-of-28).

    While the game would have gone differently if Rote had been playing, this is simply not the same Bombers team of years past. To go on a run like that in a situation like that, that's a veteran team showing composure. Ithaca's three best players (Warech, Mitchell, and Rossi) played 118 of 120 minutes and scored 61 points. Mitchell had 11 rebounds, Rossi 8 assists.

    Alex Berthiaume did yeoman's work for the Pride, scoring 35 points.

    You hate to see a team's season end with a great player watching from the bench, but credit to the Bombers for earning the win
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 02, 2013, 09:32:12 PM
    An added bonus: Sean Rossi continues to add to his all-time assists record. He's 24 ahead of the old mark, and still going
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on March 04, 2013, 04:54:44 PM
    The way Ithaca is playing of late, it would not shock me to see them "upset" Rochester. If they can hold DiBartolemeo to under 25, Ithaca wins.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on March 08, 2013, 11:52:35 AM
    Love watching both teams Rochester and Ithaca play... Ithaca has 5 guys who have played at an All Conference level. I dont think Dibartolomeo is going to let his career end at Home. Rochester wins by 2 with a Late Dibartolomeo shot.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 09, 2013, 09:04:26 PM
    John DiBartolomeo is shut down completely and the Bombers pull of the upset, 70-68 on an Eli Maravich tip in at the buzzer.

    DiBartolomeo goes 0-for-8 from the floor and manages only two points. Tom Sweeney plays the game of his life, with 22 points and 6 rebounds. Warech goes for 17 and 8, and Rossi with 12 and 9. Didn't watch the video, but the MVP is whoever Ithaca put on DiBartolomeo. Tough way to end a great career, but a fantastic defensive performance
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on March 09, 2013, 10:35:34 PM
    Unbelievable Ithaca at Rochester game one of the best D3 games i have ever seen live.... Eli Maravich tipped in a shot with .3 on the clock and Ithaca goes into the Palestra and Stuns the Yellow Jackets.. I was routing for both teams because i know coaches and players on both teams. Gonna miss Division 3 Basketball when the season ends.. Dibartolomeo ends a fabulous career in Heartbreaking fashion its been a pleasure to watch Johnny D all year and the last 4 years. Congrats to everyone who SURVIVED and Advanced into todays 2nd round games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on March 10, 2013, 12:49:48 AM
    Congrats to Ithaca. They and Morrisville continue to represent our great State and the D3 hoops contained therein.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on March 10, 2013, 11:55:49 AM
    Who wouldve thought Morrisville and Ithaca would be the 2 teams in the Sweet 16 Representing the East Region? I picked Ithaca on my bracket but certainly not Morrisville
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on March 10, 2013, 01:28:38 PM
    John Dibartolomeo (Rochester) ends his Career as a Legitimate 1st Team All American and one of the Most decorated players to ever play at A college in The Rochester area. In Rochesters great Basketball tradition and great players.. Guys who have to be in that category are 1994 Player of the Year Scott Fitch (Geneseo) now Fairport High School Boys Basketball Coach. Corey McAdam who carried a Very inexperianced Nazareth team in 2009-2010 and was a 1st Team All American. I was around that Nazareth and understood how good McAdam was. I am very fortunate i was apart of such Great Person and Player in 2009-2010 at Nazareth. Seth Hauben who was a 1st Team All American in 2005 for Rochester.. Johnny D is THE Best player to play in the East Region in the past 2-3 years. Even know Dibartolomeo didnt have nearly his Greatest game in A Yellow Jacket Uniform he his still One of the best Division 3 Players we have seen in the East Region in the last 10 years. The 2 Best Guards to play in the East Region in the last 10 Years are arguably Corey McAdam and John Dibartolomeo. Fans and Players always compare the Greatest Players of there time and its hard to do. Because Scott Fitch, Corey McAdam and John Dibartolomeo are all different players but are Great in there own way.. Good Luck to Johnny D in his future it was a pleasure to watch you play the last 4 years.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 10, 2013, 02:46:09 PM
    Congrats to Ithaca on a huge win last night. I didn't get to watch it, but was happy to see them pull the upset. Way to represent the E8!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 10, 2013, 08:14:22 PM
    So some more thoughts on IC after last night's brief post

    This Bomber team really is the perfect storm. Consider the parts:

    1) A four-year starting point guard--this is such a key. Rossi is great, but I think having a guy, any guy, who knows your system inside and out running the show, is such an advantage.

    2) Travis Warech, Ithaca's best player, is a senior transfer

    3) Frank Mitchell, the second-leading scorer, is a former D-I walk-on heavily recruited by former Assistant Nevada Smith, who brought him into the fold just before leaving for his own head coaching job

    4) Last night's hero, Eli Maravich, returned for his senior year after two years off

    All these elements combine for the best team in school history. The toughness of this team can't be overstated. Against Springfield, down 59-50 with 12 minutes to go, and they go on a 15-0 run. Against Rochester, nearly the same situation: Down 58-50 with 11 minutes to go, and they go on an 8-1 run to get back in it.

    Tough way for DiBartolomeo to end his great career.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 11, 2013, 03:34:54 PM
    It's that time of year when we can choose a player to play in the NABC All Star Game that is taking place in Salem, Va. this year. Last year East Region player Ralph Temgoua from St. Lawrence was voted onto the team. This year one of the players that can be voted onto the team is SUNYAC Player of the Year, forward Hayden Ward from Oswego State. I urge all the visitors to this board to go to the front page of D3hoops and vote for Hayden. He needs our support as he's way behind the current leaders.

    Here's the link:  http://d3hoops.com/landing/index?t=1363029315978

    The voting only lasts for 2 days so don't wait to cast your vote. Do it now.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 13, 2013, 04:48:24 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 29, 2012, 10:35:22 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on October 23, 2012, 12:20:59 PM
    Any predicitions as to whom might be the E8 favorite this season? I've heard a couple of rumblings (since Buff Sate football is now a E8 participant). Thought I'd check with those who know!!

    Bombers. Dead serious. Ithaca returns four major pieces...two leading scorers (Mitchell and Oztemel), best PG in the conference (Rossi), and Tom Sweeney, who had 19+ points four times in the last eight games of 2012. Also have a senior transfer, Travis Warech, from D-II who averages 12.6 PPG. Eli Marivich, who was a solid depth guy in 2010, also returns after two years off. Ithaca underachieved last season, but peaked late in the season, and bring back as good a core as most teams have.

    Calling it now. Ithaca wins 20, takes both the regular season title and conference tournament, and one game in the NCAAs.

    Man, that may be the best prediction I ever made. Injuries derailed the regular-season title hopes, but I think I captured the essence of the season in a nutshell. Thanks, IC, for making me look so good.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on March 15, 2013, 03:16:14 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on March 13, 2013, 04:48:24 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 29, 2012, 10:35:22 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on October 23, 2012, 12:20:59 PM
    Any predicitions as to whom might be the E8 favorite this season? I've heard a couple of rumblings (since Buff Sate football is now a E8 participant). Thought I'd check with those who know!!

    Bombers. Dead serious. Ithaca returns four major pieces...two leading scorers (Mitchell and Oztemel), best PG in the conference (Rossi), and Tom Sweeney, who had 19+ points four times in the last eight games of 2012. Also have a senior transfer, Travis Warech, from D-II who averages 12.6 PPG. Eli Marivich, who was a solid depth guy in 2010, also returns after two years off. Ithaca underachieved last season, but peaked late in the season, and bring back as good a core as most teams have.

    Calling it now. Ithaca wins 20, takes both the regular season title and conference tournament, and one game in the NCAAs.

    Man, that may be the best prediction I ever made. Injuries derailed the regular-season title hopes, but I think I captured the essence of the season in a nutshell. Thanks, IC, for making me look so good.

    Bombers798891... I am a witness that the above post is legit and not photochopped.   Good call. Now y'all go make it 3 NCAA games in  a row!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 16, 2013, 04:43:01 PM
    Ithaca and Middlebury locked in a tight game  as Middlebury leads 36-34 at the half

    Travis Warech leads the Bombers with 9 points
    Eli Maravich has 6 points



    Joey Kizell leads the Panthers with 11 points
    Jake Wolfin has 8
    Nolan Thompson has 8
    James Jensen has 7
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 16, 2013, 05:41:59 PM
    Middlebury and Ithaca in a barnburner as Joey Kizell hits 2 free throws with 1.8 seconds left to defeat Ithaca 73-72.

    Tough loss for the Bombers as Frank Mitchell hits a layup with 6 seconds left in the game to give Ithaca a 72-71 lead. Middlebury's Kizell takes the inbound pass and dribbles into the Panthers frontcourt only to get fouled as he's making a move toward the basket with 1.8 seconds left on the clock. He hits them both to give the Panthers the win.  Ithaca came back from a 10 point 57-47 deficit to regain the lead at 68-67 with 1:56 to play. Middlebury regained the lead and held it until Mithchell's layup put the Bombers ahead. I think Ithaca wins the game if they don't foul Kizell as he was quite a distance from the hoop when he was fouled. Not sure if he would have gotten off a decent shot. Great season for the Bombers though.   

    Nolan Thompson with 6 three pointer and 20 points
    Jake Wolfin with 6 three pointers and a total of 20 points
    Joey Kizell with 13 points 


    Travis Warech led the Bombers with 19 points
    Eli Maravich had 17 points
    Frank Mitchell had 11 points
    Sean Rossi had 10 points.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on March 18, 2013, 01:37:05 PM
    The best team in IC history concludes a fantastic season with a fantastic game. Congrats to all involved. Special congrats to the seniors who have played their final game in an IC uniform, especially Rossi and Oztemel. Travis Warech made a huge impact in his only season on the South Hill, and three seniors, Rossi, Warech and Eli Maravich teamed up for the biggest play in program history.

    Great season Bombers
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 18, 2013, 07:43:41 PM
    The NABC has released their All District Teams for Division III today.


    Players from the Empire 8 League:

    Sean Rossi of Ithaca and Sheldon Jones of Stevens were selected to the 1st Team.

    Jason Norsen of St. John Fisher was chosen for the 2nd team.

    Also:
    John DiBartolomeo of Rochester was chosen as the East District Player of the Year.

    Coach of the Year was Tom Spanbauer from Cortland State:

    Congratulations to all.

    Here's the complete East Region Teams:

    EAST
    First Team                                                                             Second Team
                                                                                               
    *John DiBartolomeo, Rochester                                               Richie Bonney, Hobart
    Sheldon Jones, Stevens Institute of Technology                        Kevin Donohue, Union
    Sean Rossi, Ithaca                                                                 Jason Norsen, St. John Fisher
    Stefan Thompson, Hobart                                                       Jake Simmons, Buffalo State
    Hayden Ward, SUNY Oswego                                                   Carl Yaffe, NYU
    Jesse Winter, SUNY Cortland
    Coach of the Year: Tom Spanbauer, SUNY-Cortland
    *District Player of the Year

    Here's a link showing the complete NABC All District Teams from the entire country:

    http://static.psbin.com/z/e/dtmf3oj4do2ttt/2013_NABC_Division_III_All-District_Teams_and_Coaches.pdf
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: bomber3 on March 18, 2013, 08:43:06 PM
    Congrats to the Bombers on a great run.  All the pieces clicked at the right time for this team.  Great to see the program have some long overdue national postseason success.  Go Bombers. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 29, 2013, 05:43:01 AM
    D3hoops All American Teams were released Thursday evening. The East Region had their share of award winners.

    John DiBartolomeo of Rochester was named the D3hoops Player of the Year and a member of the 1st Team. Not really a surprise as he had a tremendous season. Was glad to see that his final game against Ithaca didn't cost him this award.

    Hayden Ward from Oswego State was named to the 2nd Team.

    Sean Rossi from Ithaca was also named to the 2nd Team.

    Stefan Thompson from Hobart was named to the Honorable Mention list.

    Congratulation to all four players who ended their college careers with outstanding years.

    Too many good players and never enough spots to mention all the guys that had excellent seasons.

    Here's the link to the complete list of D3hoops All Americans: http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/2013   

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on June 22, 2013, 02:02:29 AM
    I saw in the local paper today that St. John Fisher is getting a recruit from my area. Keegan Ryan is a 6'6" center from Beekmantown Central School, near Plattsburgh, N.Y. Keegan was highly recruited by a lot of the D3 schools across the state. He was recently named to the NYSSWA All State 4th team for Class B. He averaged 27 ppg his senior year and was held under 20 points just twice all year. He finished his varsity career with 1527 points. Should be a good addition for the Cardinals. Was hoping he'd play for my Cardinals at Plattsburgh State. They certainly wanted him to.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on July 13, 2013, 08:19:34 PM
    Quote from: magicman on June 22, 2013, 02:02:29 AM
    I saw in the local paper today that St. John Fisher is getting a recruit from my area. Keegan Ryan is a 6'6" center from Beekmantown Central School, near Plattsburgh, N.Y. Keegan was highly recruited by a lot of the D3 schools across the state. He was recently named to the NYSSWA All State 4th team for Class B. He averaged 27 ppg his senior year and was held under 20 points just twice all year. He finished his varsity career with 1527 points. Should be a good addition for the Cardinals. Was hoping he'd play for my Cardinals at Plattsburgh State. They certainly wanted him to.

    Wow...nice. Sounds like a great get for Coach Kornaker.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on October 20, 2013, 04:24:27 PM
    Excited about the start of the D3 hoops season! here are my predictions for the Empire 8! I think the league is going to have a lot of good teams.

    1. St John Fisher: My gut is telling me different but on paper the Cardinals look like a 1st or 2nd place caliber team. Fisher returns key starters including Chaz Lott, Optimystik Kinard, and Thad Wier but losing Jason Norsen a stud big man will hurt the Cards. Freshman center Keegan Ryan who was heavily recruited by many D3 schools in New York will replace Norsen in the Frontcourt. Prediction: 18-7 Overall and 13-5 conference
    2. Hartwick: The Hawks I think are going to have a huge bounce back season. with returning starters like Kyle Bradley, Jared Suderley, Anthony Keene and Christian Laputka. The Hawks are capable of winning an E8 Title. They have 2 of the best Freshman guards in the state Joey Lufkin and Fernando Vasquez. they are both quick and Explosive Guards. Prediction 17-8 Overall and 13-5 Conference

    3. Nazareth: Nazareth returns 4 starters including Maurice Mills, Brad Ford, Mitch Ford, and Scott Hayford. The only question for the Golden flyers is the PG Position can Jack Giles and Freshman PG get the job done? I think the answer is yes. the Golden Flyers are capable of winning an E8 Title as well. Naz has one of the best recruiting classes in the E8 and Region I believe. Prediction 17-8 Overall 12-6 Conference

    4. Stevens: The Ducks are returning Kenny Gan, Matt Skrelja, and Patrick Sabatino. Losing Sheldon Jones and Russ Thompson will hurt the Ducks a lot. I think Stevens isn't at the level that the top 3 teams are at this year. Prediction 15-10 10-8 Conference

    5. Ithaca: The Bombers Losing Guys like Travis Warech, Andrei Oztemel, and Especially Sean Rossi arguably a op 3 PG in the region last year. I think the Bombers have trouble this season in conference play especially. They will contend for a Playoff spot but I think they come up short. Coach Mullins will have his guys ready to play and compete for a spot in the top 4. Prediction 15-10 Overall 9-9 conference.

    6. Utica: The Pioneers return guys like Aaron Nevins , Connor Maisch and Chris Jeffers. I think they will also contend for a Playoff spot. I think the Pioneers struggle in league play. This team will beat teams at the top of the conference and score a lot of Points. Prediction 13-12 and 8-10 in league play.

    7.Elmira: I think Elmira has another down year. This team will surprise some teams as usual. Chris Cassidy is an All League caliber big man. I think Elmira is up and coming though. Prediction 10-15 overall 6-12 Conference.

    8. Alfred: A team similar to Elmira. still trying to figure things out. Coach Wellman is a good coach and has the program slowly getting better each year. I predict the Saxons to finish 9-16 overall and 6-12 conference.

    9. Houghton: This team has lost almost all there starters from last years team. I think the Highlanders improve the record a little. Prediction 5-20 Overall 3-15 conference.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on October 22, 2013, 10:17:14 AM
    The Empire 8 should be up for grabs this year. Ithaca, SJF and Stevens all had major graduation losses. Based on returning players, Hartwick and Nazareth should be your favorites to win the league.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 24, 2013, 02:54:37 PM
    Very excited to hear that Bob Ward is rejoining the SJF basketball coaching staff in some capacity. It was announced during half time of the football game this past weekend. I think he will give Fisher is boost in recruiting. Kornaker, as good a coach as he is, has not had the talent that some of the Bob Ward teams had. Even Kornaker's best teams were mainly recruited by Ward as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 01, 2013, 05:29:09 AM
    Former Ithaca assistant coach Nevada Smith who left the Bombers several years ago to take over the head coaching position at Keystone College has left Keystone to take over the head coaching job of the Rio Grande Valley Vipers. The Vipers are the Development League affiliate of the NBA's Houston Rockets and won the D-League championship last season.

    Here's a link to the complete story from the  D3hoops front page article:

    http://d3hoops.com/notables/2013/10/keystone-coach-headed-to-d-league
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 06, 2013, 10:03:45 AM
    Fisher has put up their updated roster for the coming year. I don't know much about any of the recruits, but this Keegan Ryan kid is supposed to be the real deal. Chaz Lott is back as well so Fisher may be building the type of inside/outside tandem they had a few years back with Dan McSweeney and Dan Mueller.

    My guess at a rotation looks like this:

    1. Chaz Lott
    2. Matt Cooney/Adam Ambielli
    3. Optimystik Kinard
    4. Jackson Burke
    5. Keegan Ryan

    I am not sure how accurate this is, but that is my first guess. I expect Fisher to be good this year, but not great. I am not sure what the issue is, but they don't seem to have the talent that they had when Kornaker first took over the program, although I am excited about Chaz Lott and Keegan Ryan being a sophomore and a freshman. Kinard and Ambielli are Juniors, and Burke is a sophomore. Only two seniors on the team, and I expect only one to play significant minutes, so Fisher is still young.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 08, 2013, 04:46:44 PM
    D3hoops preseason All America team was released today. here are the players from the East Region that were honored:

    Jared Suderley            2nd Team    Senior forward from Hartwick

    John Ivy                     3rd Team    Senior guard from Brockport State

    Richie Bonney             4th Team    Senior forward from Hobart

    Here's the link to the complete list of All Americans:  http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/preseason-2014
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 10, 2013, 02:24:59 PM
    Preseason All Conference, Coach of the year/ Player of the year and Rookie of the year
    Player of the Year: Jared Suderley- Hartwick
    Rookie of the Year: Keegan Ryan- St John Fisher
    Coach of the Year: Todd McGuinness- Hartwick
    Preseason 1st Team:
    Guard: Chaz Lott- St John Fisher
    Forward: Connor Maisch- Utica
    Forward: Jared Suderley- Hartwick
    Forward: Brad Ford- Nazareth
    Center: Patrick Sabatino- Stevens

    Preseason 2nd Team:
    Guard: Aaron Nevins- Utica
    Guard: Christian Laputka- Hartwick
    Forward: Scott Hayford- Nazareth
    Forward: Tom Sweeney- Ithaca
    Forward: Frank Mitchell- Ithaca
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 14, 2013, 02:23:10 PM
    The official Preseason ranking from Empire8.com standing have came out
    1. St John Fisher 40 Votes (3 first place votes)
    2. Hartwick College 39 Votes (2 first place votes)
    3. Ithaca College 38 votes ( 2 first place votes)
    4. Stevens 38 votes( 1 first place vote)
    5. Nazareth 27 Votes (Surprising) they will be first or second at end of year
    6. Elmira 18 votes. Chris Cassidy isnt playing this year
    7. Utica 16 votes
    8. Alfred 8 votes
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 14, 2013, 04:53:49 PM
    Speaking about SJ Fisher.... They have a 6'10 kid from St Vincents-St Marys (Lebron James old high school) named jacob Baker. He is listed as a junior. Did he just sitout the past 2 seasons? There is no record of him anywhere since high school. ???
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 16, 2013, 07:34:33 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 14, 2013, 04:53:49 PM
    Speaking about SJ Fisher.... They have a 6'10 kid from St Vincents-St Marys (Lebron James old high school) named jacob Baker. He is listed as a junior. Did he just sitout the past 2 seasons? There is no record of him anywhere since high school. ???

    Not sure where it came from, but let's hope he has some of Lebron's talent!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 16, 2013, 09:56:40 AM
    Hey Bengalsrule, what can I expect from Buff State tonight?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 16, 2013, 06:32:35 PM
    Defense  and running!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 16, 2013, 09:58:52 PM
    Not the kind if running that I thought we would have done but 67-59 will work. Only had 29 at half so adding almost 40 in the 2nd half was a improvement !

    Medaille next Tuesday.  Must do better.

    Go BENGALS!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 16, 2013, 10:54:31 PM
    Quote from: magicman on June 22, 2013, 02:02:29 AM
    I saw in the local paper today that St. John Fisher is getting a recruit from my area. Keegan Ryan is a 6'6" center from Beekmantown Central School, near Plattsburgh, N.Y. Keegan was highly recruited by a lot of the D3 schools across the state. He was recently named to the NYSSWA All State 4th team for Class B. He averaged 27 ppg his senior year and was held under 20 points just twice all year. He finished his varsity career with 1527 points. Should be a good addition for the Cardinals. Was hoping he'd play for my Cardinals at Plattsburgh State. They certainly wanted him to.

    That was a post I made on June 22nd.

    Tonight, freshman Keegan Ryan began his D3 career starting in his first game in the season opener for Fisher. Keegan came out of the gate with a double double of 16 points and 10 boards. He led the Cardinals in both categories. It will be the first of many times that he does this over the next 4 years. 8-)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 17, 2013, 01:19:25 AM
    Quote from: magicman on November 16, 2013, 10:54:31 PM
    Quote from: magicman on June 22, 2013, 02:02:29 AM
    I saw in the local paper today that St. John Fisher is getting a recruit from my area. Keegan Ryan is a 6'6" center from Beekmantown Central School, near Plattsburgh, N.Y. Keegan was highly recruited by a lot of the D3 schools across the state. He was recently named to the NYSSWA All State 4th team for Class B. He averaged 27 ppg his senior year and was held under 20 points just twice all year. He finished his varsity career with 1527 points. Should be a good addition for the Cardinals. Was hoping he'd play for my Cardinals at Plattsburgh State. They certainly wanted him to.

    That was a post I made on July 13th.

    Tonight, freshman Keegan Ryan began his D3 career starting in his first game in the season opener for Fisher. Keegan came out of the gate with a double double of 16 points and 10 boards. He led the Cardinals in both categories. It will be the first of many times that he does this over the next 4 years. 8-)

    Looked really good for his first ever start. Fisher may be building something with Chaz Lott and Keegan Ryan for the next few years. Tough loss tonight, but it looks like they have a big man.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 17, 2013, 11:00:27 AM
    Nazareth looked good this weekend playing Sage and Fredonia. Played 5 freshman in the 1st half of both games and have a lot of guys who are talented coming off the bench. Hartwick wins against
    Ursinus and loses to Messiah saturday. Fisher loses to what i thought was a really good Buffalo State team. Wasnt impressed with Fisher dont think they are going to be in first place at the end of the season. I think Fisher needs one more scorer to be a top tier team. Great 1st weekend in the D3hoops season. Going to watch Oswego vs Ithaca tuesday
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on November 18, 2013, 02:27:38 PM
    Caught moments from a few games of E8 teams this weekend and believe this is going to be the year of the big man in the E8. Ithaca has a very good front line. Fisher's freshman center has loads of potential. Stevens' post guy may be the most athletic of the bunch. Did not see Nazareth but Brad Ford's stats seem to indicate he could take on E8 player of the year honors. And I haven't even mentioned preseason player of the Year, Hartwick's Jared Suderley. He is already averaging a double-double.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 18, 2013, 02:53:09 PM
    I saw the Ryan kid up close and personal. I doubt that the E 8 has a better big man than him. He is very fluid around the basket for a big. Right hand or left!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 19, 2013, 08:03:09 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 18, 2013, 02:53:09 PM
    I saw the Ryan kid up close and personal. I doubt that the E 8 has a better big man than him. He is very fluid around the basket for a big. Right hand or left!

    I met a guy from Plattsburgh a few weeks ago at a work event and I mentioned that I went to Fisher. He brought up Keegan Ryan and said that he has all the potential to be a first team player this year. I don't know how much of an expert on d3 football but he obviously watched Ryan play and thought he had a huge upside.

    Fisher will have a nice one two pinch with him and Chaz Lott, but they have to get some more scoring from others if they want to win the league.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 19, 2013, 01:57:07 PM
    I think Brad Ford, Mitch Ford, Patrick Sabitino, Frank Mitchell, Tom Sweeney and Jared Suderley are all better than Keegan Ryan!  ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 20, 2013, 02:35:06 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 19, 2013, 08:03:09 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 18, 2013, 02:53:09 PM
    I saw the Ryan kid up close and personal. I doubt that the E 8 has a better big man than him. He is very fluid around the basket for a big. Right hand or left!

    I met a guy from Plattsburgh a few weeks ago at a work event and I mentioned that I went to Fisher. He brought up Keegan Ryan and said that he has all the potential to be a first team player this year. I don't know how much of an expert on d3 football but he obviously watched Ryan play and thought he had a huge upside.

    Fisher will have a nice one two pinch with him and Chaz Lott, but they have to get some more scoring from others if they want to win the league.

    I didn't know Keegan played football in high school. ??? Is he planning on going out for football at Fisher next year? ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 20, 2013, 04:59:19 PM
    AU appears to be taking a different approach to the game this season, averaging 112 points per game in its first two outings against SUNY Cobleskill and Wells College, respectively. Coach Wellman has a long deep bench and has substituted freely. Will be interesting to see whether that approach will garner more Ws once conference play begins. Certainly makes it more fun for the fans.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 20, 2013, 11:57:28 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 20, 2013, 02:35:06 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 19, 2013, 08:03:09 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 18, 2013, 02:53:09 PM
    I saw the Ryan kid up close and personal. I doubt that the E 8 has a better big man than him. He is very fluid around the basket for a big. Right hand or left!

    I met a guy from Plattsburgh a few weeks ago at a work event and I mentioned that I went to Fisher. He brought up Keegan Ryan and said that he has all the potential to be a first team player this year. I don't know how much of an expert on d3 football but he obviously watched Ryan play and thought he had a huge upside.

    Fisher will have a nice one two pinch with him and Chaz Lott, but they have to get some more scoring from others if they want to win the league.

    I didn't know Keegan played football in high school. ??? Is he planning on going out for football at Fisher next year? ;)

    Ah Christ! You know what I meant...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 21, 2013, 10:44:16 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 20, 2013, 11:57:28 PM
    Quote from: magicman on November 20, 2013, 02:35:06 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 19, 2013, 08:03:09 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 18, 2013, 02:53:09 PM
    I saw the Ryan kid up close and personal. I doubt that the E 8 has a better big man than him. He is very fluid around the basket for a big. Right hand or left!

    I met a guy from Plattsburgh a few weeks ago at a work event and I mentioned that I went to Fisher. He brought up Keegan Ryan and said that he has all the potential to be a first team player this year. I don't know how much of an expert on d3 football but he obviously watched Ryan play and thought he had a huge upside.

    Fisher will have a nice one two pinch with him and Chaz Lott, but they have to get some more scoring from others if they want to win the league.

    I didn't know Keegan played football in high school. ??? Is he planning on going out for football at Fisher next year? ;)

    Ah Christ! You know what I meant...

    Welcome to the world of the......MAGICMAN!!!!! ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 22, 2013, 12:56:44 PM
    Does anyone know anything about Medaille?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on November 22, 2013, 01:16:19 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 22, 2013, 12:56:44 PM
    Does anyone know anything about Medaille?

    They have 2 good guards in Coleman and Willingham. They had success in their conference the last few years; lost in the conf. final last year. Their gym is a tough place to play due to the walls and crowd seemingly right on the court. If this game was at SJF,  I would say Fisher would have the advantage. Playing at Medaille puts this game at a pick 'em.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 24, 2013, 11:17:38 AM
    Nazareth wins a great game against Rochester. Rochester even with a 1-3 start is a very good team. They have very good players and lots of 6'6 guys. For Naz Scott Hayford even with 6 points was one of the MVPs of the game. Guarding Rochesters best player and was ready to play since October 15th. Jack Giles went 11-12 from the Field and ended with 27 points. Great win for Naz. I think we can get to 4-0 with Alfred State on Tuesday.  ;D :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
    Go Naz
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 24, 2013, 04:36:36 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 24, 2013, 11:17:38 AM
    Nazareth wins a great game against Rochester. Rochester even with a 1-3 start is a very good team. They have very good players and lots of 6'6 guys. For Naz Scott Hayford even with 6 points was one of the MVPs of the game. Guarding Rochesters best player and was ready to play since October 15th. Jack Giles went 11-12 from the Field and ended with 27 points. Great win for Naz. I think we can get to 4-0 with Alfred State on Tuesday.  ;D :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
    Go Naz

    Any time you beat U of R it is a good win. Congrats.

    Looks like Naz may be the 1 seed in the Wendy's?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 24, 2013, 06:03:03 PM
    Thanks... and yes that's what it looks like. Maybe Hobart as a 1 seed.   
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 24, 2013, 04:36:36 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 24, 2013, 11:17:38 AM
    Nazareth wins a great game against Rochester. Rochester even with a 1-3 start is a very good team. They have very good players and lots of 6'6 guys. For Naz Scott Hayford even with 6 points was one of the MVPs of the game. Guarding Rochesters best player and was ready to play since October 15th. Jack Giles went 11-12 from the Field and ended with 27 points. Great win for Naz. I think we can get to 4-0 with Alfred State on Tuesday.  ;D :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
    Go Naz

    Any time you beat U of R it is a good win. Congrats.

    Looks like Naz may be the 1 seed in the Wendy's?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 29, 2013, 01:31:35 PM
    Not a huge fan of the Fisher schedule this year. A game a week doesn't work for me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on December 02, 2013, 09:39:03 AM


    Wendy College Classic Bracket 20131. Brockport vs 8. RIT Brockport wins by 13
    4. Geneseo vs 5. St John Fisher Fisher wins by 6
    2. Hobart vs 7. Rochester  Rochester wins by 3
    3. Nazareth vs 6. Roberts Wesleyan Naz wins by 8
    Semifinal Predictions
      3. Nazareth vs 7. Rochester Naz wins by 4
    1. Brockport vs 5. St John Fisher Brockport wins by 6
    Championship Game:
    1. Brockport vs 3. Nazareth Naz wins by 2
    Nazareth I think wins the Wendys Classic.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 04, 2013, 06:12:52 AM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on December 02, 2013, 09:39:03 AM


    Wendy College Classic Bracket 20131. Brockport vs 8. RIT Brockport wins by 13
    4. Geneseo vs 5. St John Fisher Fisher wins by 6
    2. Hobart vs 7. Rochester  Rochester wins by 3
    3. Nazareth vs 6. Roberts Wesleyan Naz wins by 8
    Semifinal Predictions
      3. Nazareth vs 7. Rochester Naz wins by 4
    1. Brockport vs 5. St John Fisher Brockport wins by 6
    Championship Game:
    1. Brockport vs 3. Nazareth Naz wins by 2
    Nazareth I think wins the Wendys Classic.

    I know we talk about this every year but I really don't like that the Wendy's tournament is played so early in the year. There just isn't enough of a sample size to properly seed teams. That was always the best part of the tournament when it was played mid-season. Teams being seeded based on where they really were compared to each other, and then playing higher or lower seeds to advance. Almost like a mini NCAA tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 04, 2013, 01:57:32 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 04, 2013, 06:12:52 AM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on December 02, 2013, 09:39:03 AM


    Wendy College Classic Bracket 20131. Brockport vs 8. RIT Brockport wins by 13
    4. Geneseo vs 5. St John Fisher Fisher wins by 6
    2. Hobart vs 7. Rochester  Rochester wins by 3
    3. Nazareth vs 6. Roberts Wesleyan Naz wins by 8
    Semifinal Predictions
      3. Nazareth vs 7. Rochester Naz wins by 4
    1. Brockport vs 5. St John Fisher Brockport wins by 6
    Championship Game:
    1. Brockport vs 3. Nazareth Naz wins by 2
    Nazareth I think wins the Wendys Classic.

    I know we talk about this every year but I really don't like that the Wendy's tournament is played so early in the year. There just isn't enough of a sample size to properly seed teams. That was always the best part of the tournament when it was played mid-season. Teams being seeded based on where they really were compared to each other, and then playing higher or lower seeds to advance. Almost like a mini NCAA tournament.

    I agree. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on December 04, 2013, 02:28:15 PM
    My pick for the Wendy's is Naz.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ethelred the Unready on December 04, 2013, 10:19:29 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on December 04, 2013, 02:28:15 PM
    My pick for the Wendy's is Naz.

    Maybe next year  :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on December 05, 2013, 02:08:05 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on December 04, 2013, 10:19:29 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on December 04, 2013, 02:28:15 PM
    My pick for the Wendy's is Naz.

    Maybe next year  :)

    Shocked by this one. RIT hits a three at the buzzer to win it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on December 05, 2013, 02:09:40 PM
    My mistake... Roberts Wesleyan

    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on December 05, 2013, 02:08:05 PM
    Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on December 04, 2013, 10:19:29 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on December 04, 2013, 02:28:15 PM
    My pick for the Wendy's is Naz.

    Maybe next year  :)

    Shocked by this one. RIT hits a three at the buzzer to win it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on December 05, 2013, 03:00:54 PM
    Stevens has struggled this year but had a good win against Baruch last night. Baruch is the favorite to win the CUNY.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 06, 2013, 06:06:44 PM
    Really excited to see what Fisher does tonight against Brockport. The two teams typically play very tight contests, and they are always a good measuring stick for where a team is. After only three games, I really don't know what to make of Fisher. They look great at times (see the first half against Medaille), and then other times not so much (see the Buff State game).

    Not sure if they are a contender yet or not.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 06, 2013, 06:40:55 PM
    Maybe I was wrong to be excited about playing Brockport tonight. So far the Golden Eagles are just taking it to Fisher. Brockport is out working Fisher on both ends. Big advantage on the boards, and Fisher has missed at least 6 layups so far. The good news for Fisher is they are only down 8 with about a minute left in the first half.

    Hopefully Coach Kornaker can get things worked out at halftime.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on December 07, 2013, 11:06:40 AM
    E8 is off to a very shaky start. The best teams in the league are having trouble this year. Naz is 3-2 but the loss to Roberts Wesleyan doesn't count. So a win against RIT technically puts them at 4-1
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 07, 2013, 04:01:40 PM
    St John Fisher leads Rochester 37-24 at the half in the 3rd place game . Cardinals with a double digit lead at the 13:31 mark and never allowed Rochester to get closer than 8 points the rest of the period.

    Tyler Hart with 8 points, Mcvay with 6, Lott with 6 and Ryan with 5.

    Vernon and Borst-Smith with 5 each for the Yellowjackets.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 07, 2013, 04:22:42 PM
    Fisher is letting Their bug lead slip away. Only up 8 with lots of time left.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 07, 2013, 05:20:19 PM
    Fisher survives and wins by 2 against u of r. A nice Wendy's tournament for Fisher. Now let's start racking up some wins.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 07, 2013, 07:20:24 PM
    Nazareth wins the 7th place game with a 74-51 defeat of old E8 foe, but now Liberty League member, RIT.

    RIT came into the tournament with a 5-0 record. and left with a 5-3 record. Dessert wasn't served in the Wendy's Tournament so no cupcakes were available.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on December 10, 2013, 09:01:23 AM
    Quote from: magicman on December 07, 2013, 07:20:24 PM
    Nazareth wins the 7th place game with a 74-51 defeat of old E8 foe, but now Liberty League member, RIT.

    RIT came into the tournament with a 5-0 record. and left with a 5-3 record. Dessert wasn't served in the Wendy's Tournament so no cupcakes were available.

    Pep is curious whether Alfred's fast start (5-1) is just a result of an early season sweet tooth...and can the Saxons maintain the pace once Empire 8 competition begins? Saxons are averaging 104.3 points per outing to date against some less than stellar programs.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 10, 2013, 04:08:22 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on December 10, 2013, 09:01:23 AM
    Quote from: magicman on December 07, 2013, 07:20:24 PM
    Nazareth wins the 7th place game with a 74-51 defeat of old E8 foe, but now Liberty League member, RIT.

    RIT came into the tournament with a 5-0 record. and left with a 5-3 record. Dessert wasn't served in the Wendy's Tournament so no cupcakes were available.

    Pep is curious whether Alfred's fast start (5-1) is just a result of an early season sweet tooth...and can the Saxons maintain the pace once Empire 8 competition begins? Saxons are averaging 104.3 points per outing to date against some less than stellar programs.

    On Saxon Warriors!

      Good question Pep. I thing that your schedule may have some disadvantages when E8 play begins. 5 wins over teams with a combined cupcake schedule/record of 7-33 makes it difficult (IMHO) to get ready for the likes of St John Fisher (i've seen them up close and personal), Naz and others. I'd curious as to what Magicmans take would be on this.

      Currently with a 5-1 record massey has Alfred ranked 265. The only conference title eligible team that is ranked lower is Utica. Could be tough sledding but i hope, for your sake, that 5-1 is a good indicator of what lies ahead.

      Glad to see that you keep up with the hoops. I know that you know your football inside and out!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 10, 2013, 05:30:31 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on December 10, 2013, 09:01:23 AM
    Quote from: magicman on December 07, 2013, 07:20:24 PM
    Nazareth wins the 7th place game with a 74-51 defeat of old E8 foe, but now Liberty League member, RIT.

    RIT came into the tournament with a 5-0 record. and left with a 5-3 record. Dessert wasn't served in the Wendy's Tournament so no cupcakes were available.

    Pep is curious whether Alfred's fast start (5-1) is just a result of an early season sweet tooth...and can the Saxons maintain the pace once Empire 8 competition begins? Saxons are averaging 104.3 points per outing to date against some less than stellar programs.

    On Saxon Warriors!


    I think the Saxons wanted dessert, Pep, and 2nd's and 3rd's and ...well you get the picture. I actually hope I'm wrong about them but close games against the likes of Canton, and Fredonia, who I believe will come in last in the SUNYAC doesn't lead me to believe that the
    hoopsters from Happy Valley will make the E8 playoffs this year. I do see 4 or 5 more wins on the horizon but they will struggle to get to .500. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on December 10, 2013, 10:24:34 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 10, 2013, 05:30:31 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on December 10, 2013, 09:01:23 AM
    Quote from: magicman on December 07, 2013, 07:20:24 PM
    Nazareth wins the 7th place game with a 74-51 defeat of old E8 foe, but now Liberty League member, RIT.

    RIT came into the tournament with a 5-0 record. and left with a 5-3 record. Dessert wasn't served in the Wendy's Tournament so no cupcakes were available.

    Pep is curious whether Alfred's fast start (5-1) is just a result of an early season sweet tooth...and can the Saxons maintain the pace once Empire 8 competition begins? Saxons are averaging 104.3 points per outing to date against some less than stellar programs.

    On Saxon Warriors!


    I think the Saxons wanted dessert, Pep, and 2nd's and 3rd's and ...well you get the picture. I actually hope I'm wrong about them but close games against the likes of Canton, and Fredonia, who I believe will come in last in the SUNYAC doesn't lead me to believe that the
    hoopsters from Happy Valley will make the E8 playoffs this year. I do see 4 or 5 more wins on the horizon but they will struggle to get to .500.

    Indeed, Pep just found where the Saxons are picked to finish last in the Empire 8. Gosh, that means any wins in the Empire 8 this season can be considered upsets!  ;) Pep is looking forward to this season nevertheless. The Saxons, from Pep's perspective, have no "franchise players" but Coach Wellman has a good long bench of string beans who like (and have been let loose) to run and gun. He's got some shooters and when they're hot, they could perhaps cause problems for some of their E8 foes. How far they run and gun, of course, remains to be seen.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on December 11, 2013, 04:29:21 PM
    Alfred's style of play may lead to an upset or two down the road in the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 12, 2013, 11:48:03 AM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on December 11, 2013, 04:29:21 PM
    Alfred's style of play may lead to an upset or two down the road in the E8.

    I'm hoping the best for them, if for no other reason than the fact that AUPepband is a terrific fan/supporter of D3 sports!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 14, 2013, 12:19:39 AM
    Fisher finally gets back to action tomorrow against Oneonta. I feel like this early season schedule has been really strange. Can't wait to finally get going with the league.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 14, 2013, 04:48:06 PM
    Oneonta defeats St John Fisher 67-65.

    Red Dragons pull off the mild upset.  Much like the first half which had Fisher with the lead for the initial 10 minutes or so of the period, the Cardinals led this contest throughout the first 8:32 of the 2nd half. The Red Dragons would take the lead for the first time in this period, 50-48 on a jumper by Jackson Zuvic with 11 minutes remaining. Oneonta would extend that lead to 58-52 on a layup by Zach Mager with 5:39 left. Unlike the first period, when the Cardinals lost the lead only to retake it at the break, they did not come back and regain the lead. They fell behind by their largest 2nd half margin at 62-55 and although they would get it to within a single possession on several occasions they never came all the way back.   

    Oneonta's Zac Mager was the leading scorer in the game with 22 points. Jackson Zuvic had 12 points and led Oneonta with 7 rebounds. Mikey McElroy had 9 points and a huge 3 pointer with 1:55 left that gave the Red Dragons a 5 point lead that put them in control. Fisher did have a chance to tie or win the game as they rebounded a Red Dragon miss with 18 seconds left. After a Fisher timeout, they worked the ball for a three point attempt to win the game. Looks like it was partially blocked and Oneonta came away with the ball to end the game.

    Fisher was led by freshman Keegan Ryan with a double double of 15 points and 10 rebounds. Stefan Bock had 14 points and Tyler Hart had 11.

    Oneonta improves to 3-4 and will be off for 2 weeks until they travel south for a 2 game road trip. They take on the Averett Cougars on December 30th at 7 PM.They will face off against the Greensboro Pride on January 1st at 2 PM and hopefully get the New Year off to a good start.

    St. John Fisher falls to 3-3 and is back in action on Wednesday December 18th when they host the Bethany Bison from the Presidents Athletic Conference. The Cardinals will have their hands full with that matchup as the Bison are currently undefeated at 6-0 heading into a game tonight. Bethany owns a win over Ohio Northern who beat Buffalo State in Buffalo several weeks ago. They have also defeated Mount Union by a 79-61 score. Mount Union handled Hartwick  rather easily back on Nov. 30th by a 95-81 score.     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 15, 2013, 06:47:48 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 19, 2013, 01:57:07 PM
    I think Brad Ford, Mitch Ford, Patrick Sabitino, Frank Mitchell, Tom Sweeney and Jared Suderley are all better than Keegan Ryan!  ;D

    Young man... Have you looked at the E8 stats recently??

    Keegan Ryan - St John Fisher
    10th in Scoring
    5th in Rebounding
    5th in Ft %
    3rd in Fg%...
    ( I stopped looking after that).

    Please find another E8 big that tops those top 10 stats in at least 4 categories!!! If he stays healthy, he's your 1st team center!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 16, 2013, 01:56:51 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on December 15, 2013, 06:47:48 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 19, 2013, 01:57:07 PM
    I think Brad Ford, Mitch Ford, Patrick Sabitino, Frank Mitchell, Tom Sweeney and Jared Suderley are all better than Keegan Ryan!  ;D

    Young man... Have you looked at the E8 stats recently??

    Keegan Ryan - St John Fisher
    10th in Scoring
    5th in Rebounding
    5th in Ft %
    3rd in Fg%...
    ( I stopped looking after that).

    Please find another E8 big that tops those top 10 stats in at least 4 categories!!! If he stays healthy, he's your 1st team center!!

    Seriously?

    First off, his points and rebound per game numbers both lag behind several of the big men listed.

    Ford: 20.7/11.2
    Mitchell: 17.1/9.1
    Jeffers: 14.4/13.3
    Ryan: 14.3/8.7

    Second, he gets to the line so infrequently for a big man, his advantage in FT shooting is meaningless. He's made just 14 free throws on the season, compared to Suderley (28) Ford (30) and Mitchell (37). Being an 87% free throw shooter is great, but there's a minimal impact when you only go to the line twice a game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 16, 2013, 05:58:32 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 16, 2013, 01:56:51 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on December 15, 2013, 06:47:48 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 19, 2013, 01:57:07 PM
    I think Brad Ford, Mitch Ford, Patrick Sabitino, Frank Mitchell, Tom Sweeney and Jared Suderley are all better than Keegan Ryan!  ;D

    Young man... Have you looked at the E8 stats recently??

    Keegan Ryan - St John Fisher
    10th in Scoring
    5th in Rebounding
    5th in Ft %
    3rd in Fg%...
    ( I stopped looking after that).

    Please find another E8 big that tops those top 10 stats in at least 4 categories!!! If he stays healthy, he's your 1st team center!!

    Seriously?

    First off, his points and rebound per game numbers both lag behind several of the big men listed.

    Ford: 20.7/11.2
    Mitchell: 17.1/9.1
    Jeffers: 14.4/13.3
    Ryan: 14.3/8.7

    Second, he gets to the line so infrequently for a big man, his advantage in FT shooting is meaningless. He's made just 14 free throws on the season, compared to Suderley (28) Ford (30) and Mitchell (37). Being an 87% free throw shooter is great, but there's a minimal impact when you only go to the line twice a game.

      Whoa..... I didn't come over here to get in a pissing match over a guy who doesn't play for Buffalo State. I was a responding to a "friendly" blogger (Dcahill-see his big grin) who frequents the SUNYAC boards. Ill be damned if I get into it with anyone, about someone who plays for St Johns Fisher. I'm not into the E8 anti-Fisher beefs/fights. Nor am I into defending them. I can, and did, say that from what I saw from this kid in his season opener (and read since then) he has a ton of potential. The "potential" to be the best Big in the E8. He went head to head against our big Justin Mitchell (who was just named SUNYAC POW, ECAC POW and D3Hoops Team of the Week) and he gave no quarter. He is already amongest the best bigs in many E8 categories ( yes he is .1 pt per game behind Jeffers in scoring and less than a half a rebound behind Mitchell.) His stats are what they are.

      I can also say that most coaches (that I know), when doing a scouting report, want to know who to foul/not to foul in the closing minutes of a game. Ryan, IMHO, would not be 1 who you would want to foul.

      Any player who is shooting over 50% from the field in his first 6 collegiate games, must be worthy of some notice/respect. I'm sure as the season goes, and this kid gets used to the rigors of college ball/E8 ball, many will take notice. To be already be compared to 4 seasoned "Bigs" (Suderly, Mitchell, Ford and Jeffers) who are all SENIORS, speaks volumes about this kid now.

      18 games later we will all know where he stacks up. If Fisher comes in first in the E8 (which they could) and he continues to work hard and lead them in scoring and rebounding....then watch out .  :o

      I'm gonna head back to my SUNYAC boards now where the only 1 I need to watch out for is Magicman ;)

                                                                              Happy Holidays all! :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on December 17, 2013, 11:22:12 AM
    I didn't think Keegan Ryan would be as good as he right now. I thought it would take him a year or 2 just like Jason Norsen to fully develop and be a Very good big man for St John Fisher. Buff State looks very good @ Bengalsrule watched them pplay a couple games and I was very impressed. Understand your point about Keegan Ryan. he has been impressive thus far. Those are guys I prefer over him right now though! trying not to get in battle with you and Magicman. trying to be on your guys side
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on December 17, 2013, 12:40:57 PM
    Keegan Ryan has the potential to be an all-league player next year when the senior post players graduate. Brad Ford, Jared Suderley, and Frank Mitchell all will have good numbers this year in their senior years to make sure of it.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on December 17, 2013, 03:01:32 PM
    The Empire 8 is for anyone's taking this year. I do not see anyone running away with the conference and after the first semester, my predictions for conference play are as follows:

    1-Stevens- Defending reg. season champ and they own the best non-conference win in the league (NYU) so they get benefit of the doubt.
    2-Nazareth- Brad Ford is the best player in the conference and will keep his team close to the top all year.
    3-St John Fisher- Two young underclassmen studs in Lott and Ryan. The win against Geneseo will help the conference SOS.
    4-Hartwick- Jared Suderley will be the POY if Hartwick is ahead of Nazareth in the final standings.

    -Ithaca is way down this year after losing Rossi, Warch and Maravich. Can contend if their frontcourt dominates.
    -Alfred will split with two of the top teams listed above.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 18, 2013, 04:01:18 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on December 17, 2013, 03:01:32 PM
    The Empire 8 is for anyone's taking this year. I do not see anyone running away with the conference and after the first semester, my predictions for conference play are as follows:

    1-Stevens- Defending reg. season champ and they own the best non-conference win in the league (NYU) so they get benefit of the doubt.
    2-Nazareth- Brad Ford is the best player in the conference and will keep his team close to the top all year.
    3-St John Fisher- Two young underclassmen studs in Lott and Ryan. The win against Geneseo will help the conference SOS.
    4-Hartwick- Jared Suderley will be the POY if Hartwick is ahead of Nazareth in the final standings.

    -Ithaca is way down this year after losing Rossi, Warch and Maravich. Can contend if their frontcourt dominates.
    -Alfred will split with two of the top teams listed above.

    I appreciate you putting Fisher 3rd, but I don't know. I have not been impressed with Fisher yet this season. A tight win against Geneseo where they were losing most of the way, and then losing to Buff State and Oneonta State (no disrespect to those teams, but that is not Amherst and UWSP) does not exactly make me think they will win the E8.

    I just see a huge talent drop off from the Fisher teams that won the league year in and year out in Kornakers first few season, to now. I love what they have in Ryan and Lott for the next few years, but they need more than a point guard and a big to win consistently. I don't even know if the Ryan/Lott combination is as good as the McSweeney/Mueller combo from a few years ago. They may be in a year or two, but not yet IMHO.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 18, 2013, 08:10:40 PM
    St. John Fisher struggling against the Bethany Bison as they trailed at the half 42-24.  Seven minutes gone by in the 2nd period and they are down 54-35. Bethany looking to go  8-0.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 18, 2013, 09:24:06 PM
    Fisher with no rally tonight as they fall to Bethany by a 79-52 score.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 19, 2013, 10:37:41 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 18, 2013, 04:01:18 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on December 17, 2013, 03:01:32 PM
    The Empire 8 is for anyone's taking this year. I do not see anyone running away with the conference and after the first semester, my predictions for conference play are as follows:

    1-Stevens- Defending reg. season champ and they own the best non-conference win in the league (NYU) so they get benefit of the doubt.
    2-Nazareth- Brad Ford is the best player in the conference and will keep his team close to the top all year.
    3-St John Fisher- Two young underclassmen studs in Lott and Ryan. The win against Geneseo will help the conference SOS.
    4-Hartwick- Jared Suderley will be the POY if Hartwick is ahead of Nazareth in the final standings.

    -Ithaca is way down this year after losing Rossi, Warch and Maravich. Can contend if their frontcourt dominates.
    -Alfred will split with two of the top teams listed above.

    I appreciate you putting Fisher 3rd, but I don't know. I have not been impressed with Fisher yet this season. A tight win against Geneseo where they were losing most of the way, and then losing to Buff State and Oneonta State (no disrespect to those teams, but that is not Amherst and UWSP) does not exactly make me think they will win the E8.

    I just see a huge talent drop off from the Fisher teams that won the league year in and year out in Kornakers first few season, to now. I love what they have in Ryan and Lott for the next few years, but they need more than a point guard and a big to win consistently. I don't even know if the Ryan/Lott combination is as good as the McSweeney/Mueller combo from a few years ago. They may be in a year or two, but not yet IMHO.

    So everyone in the E8 is somewhere between 4-3 and 3-5, except for Alfred, who's apparently doing the Grinnell Lite thing. It's a wide-open race, but it really seems like the E8 is down
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on December 19, 2013, 02:01:11 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 19, 2013, 10:37:41 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 18, 2013, 04:01:18 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on December 17, 2013, 03:01:32 PM
    The Empire 8 is for anyone's taking this year. I do not see anyone running away with the conference and after the first semester, my predictions for conference play are as follows:

    1-Stevens- Defending reg. season champ and they own the best non-conference win in the league (NYU) so they get benefit of the doubt.
    2-Nazareth- Brad Ford is the best player in the conference and will keep his team close to the top all year.
    3-St John Fisher- Two young underclassmen studs in Lott and Ryan. The win against Geneseo will help the conference SOS.
    4-Hartwick- Jared Suderley will be the POY if Hartwick is ahead of Nazareth in the final standings.

    -Ithaca is way down this year after losing Rossi, Warch and Maravich. Can contend if their frontcourt dominates.
    -Alfred will split with two of the top teams listed above.

    I appreciate you putting Fisher 3rd, but I don't know. I have not been impressed with Fisher yet this season. A tight win against Geneseo where they were losing most of the way, and then losing to Buff State and Oneonta State (no disrespect to those teams, but that is not Amherst and UWSP) does not exactly make me think they will win the E8.

    I just see a huge talent drop off from the Fisher teams that won the league year in and year out in Kornakers first few season, to now. I love what they have in Ryan and Lott for the next few years, but they need more than a point guard and a big to win consistently. I don't even know if the Ryan/Lott combination is as good as the McSweeney/Mueller combo from a few years ago. They may be in a year or two, but not yet IMHO.

    So everyone in the E8 is somewhere between 4-3 and 3-5, except for Alfred, who's apparently doing the Grinnell Lite thing. It's a wide-open race, but it really seems like the E8 is down

    Enlighten Pep, Bomber....what exactly is the "Grinnell Lite thing"?  ??? Pep can only imagine it refers to the cupcake schedule the Saxons have put together to start the season, but Pep needs a little enlightening here....if you please. Always learning!  ;)

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 19, 2013, 03:20:39 PM
    Pep,

    I believe he's referring to "The System" which is the style of basketball that Grinnell College in the Midwest Conference employs, that results in high scoring games. Maybe you  heard about the 138 points that one of their players scored last year.   
    Alfred is "Grinnell Lite"  because, while the Saxons have broken the century mark in nearly all of their games, they aren't putting up the point totals that Grinnell's System has yielded. Grinnell has recorded totals of, 121, 122, 128, 132, 144 and 173. There was the one game where the opponent must have slowed the game down as they only scored 89 in that one. ;D 


    Here's the link to the game last season where Grinnell's Jack Taylor set the NCAA record:
    http://d3hoops.com/notables/2012/11/grinnell-taylor-puts-scoring-record-at-138


    Here's the link to another game he had this season where he also went over 100 points:
    http://d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2013-14/contrib/20131117edro3o

    Neither one of Grinnell's opponents in those two games were very good and they were really gimmick games to deliberately try and set a scoring record. They caused quite a bit of discussion in the  D3 world at the time about the method of play, the hand picked opponent and the lack of any mercy in ratcheting up the margin of victory.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 19, 2013, 08:25:15 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 19, 2013, 10:37:41 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 18, 2013, 04:01:18 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on December 17, 2013, 03:01:32 PM
    The Empire 8 is for anyone's taking this year. I do not see anyone running away with the conference and after the first semester, my predictions for conference play are as follows:

    1-Stevens- Defending reg. season champ and they own the best non-conference win in the league (NYU) so they get benefit of the doubt.
    2-Nazareth- Brad Ford is the best player in the conference and will keep his team close to the top all year.
    3-St John Fisher- Two young underclassmen studs in Lott and Ryan. The win against Geneseo will help the conference SOS.
    4-Hartwick- Jared Suderley will be the POY if Hartwick is ahead of Nazareth in the final standings.

    -Ithaca is way down this year after losing Rossi, Warch and Maravich. Can contend if their frontcourt dominates.
    -Alfred will split with two of the top teams listed above.

    I appreciate you putting Fisher 3rd, but I don't know. I have not been impressed with Fisher yet this season. A tight win against Geneseo where they were losing most of the way, and then losing to Buff State and Oneonta State (no disrespect to those teams, but that is not Amherst and UWSP) does not exactly make me think they will win the E8.

    I just see a huge talent drop off from the Fisher teams that won the league year in and year out in Kornakers first few season, to now. I love what they have in Ryan and Lott for the next few years, but they need more than a point guard and a big to win consistently. I don't even know if the Ryan/Lott combination is as good as the McSweeney/Mueller combo from a few years ago. They may be in a year or two, but not yet IMHO.

    So everyone in the E8 is somewhere between 4-3 and 3-5, except for Alfred, who's apparently doing the Grinnell Lite thing. It's a wide-open race, but it really seems like the E8 is down

    Could not agree more. I have watched all but one of the Fisher games and they just don't strike me Asa very good team (middle of the pack in the SUNYAC I would guess). Up and down and really struggle against teams with talent. If Fisher has a chance to win the league it may be the worst champion, talent wise, since I have been following the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 20, 2013, 08:19:55 AM
    Quote from: magicman on December 19, 2013, 03:20:39 PM
    Pep,

    I believe he's referring to "The System" which is the style of basketball that Grinnell College in the Midwest Conference employs, that results in high scoring games. Maybe you  heard about the 138 points that one of their players scored last year.   
    Alfred is "Grinnell Lite"  because, while the Saxons have broken the century mark in nearly all of their games, they aren't putting up the point totals that Grinnell's System has yielded. Grinnell has recorded totals of, 121, 122, 128, 132, 144 and 173. There was the one game where the opponent must have slowed the game down as they only scored 89 in that one. ;D 


    Here's the link to the game last season where Grinnell's Jack Taylor set the NCAA record:
    http://d3hoops.com/notables/2012/11/grinnell-taylor-puts-scoring-record-at-138


    Here's the link to another game he had this season where he also went over 100 points:
    http://d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2013-14/contrib/20131117edro3o

    Neither one of Grinnell's opponents in those two games were very good and they were really gimmick games to deliberately try and set a scoring record. They caused quite a bit of discussion in the  D3 world at the time about the method of play, the hand picked opponent and the lack of any mercy in ratcheting up the margin of victory.

    Basically yes, though I have zero respect for Grinnell. Cupcakes is one thing. Scheduling overmatched bible colleges that barely field an athletic department and abandoning your own system (the part that is never reported in any of these stories about these games), jacking up threes with a 70-point lead, for the sole purpose of trying to get one player to score 150 points or whatever their next gimmick is makes me sick. My favorite game of the year is "The one that ends Grinnell's season"

    Alfred, I suspect, is trying something different to inject some life into what's a pretty mediocre/stale program, and trying to work out the kinks before the E8 slate. Do your thing. But never go full Grinnell
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: madzillagd on December 20, 2013, 11:57:11 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 20, 2013, 08:19:55 AM
    Basically yes, though I have zero respect for Grinnell. Cupcakes is one thing. Scheduling overmatched bible colleges that barely field an athletic department and abandoning your own system (the part that is never reported in any of these stories about these games), jacking up threes with a 70-point lead, for the sole purpose of trying to get one player to score 150 points or whatever their next gimmick is makes me sick. My favorite game of the year is "The one that ends Grinnell's season"

    Alfred, I suspect, is trying something different to inject some life into what's a pretty mediocre/stale program, and trying to work out the kinks before the E8 slate. Do your thing. But never go full Grinnell

    Here's a trivia question for you - on the night that Jack Taylor set his scoring record, which D3 school had the highest margin of victory?  Here's a hint... it wasn't Grinnell. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 21, 2013, 11:07:07 AM
    Quote from: madzillagd on December 20, 2013, 11:57:11 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 20, 2013, 08:19:55 AM
    Basically yes, though I have zero respect for Grinnell. Cupcakes is one thing. Scheduling overmatched bible colleges that barely field an athletic department and abandoning your own system (the part that is never reported in any of these stories about these games), jacking up threes with a 70-point lead, for the sole purpose of trying to get one player to score 150 points or whatever their next gimmick is makes me sick. My favorite game of the year is "The one that ends Grinnell's season"

    Alfred, I suspect, is trying something different to inject some life into what's a pretty mediocre/stale program, and trying to work out the kinks before the E8 slate. Do your thing. But never go full Grinnell

    Here's a trivia question for you - on the night that Jack Taylor set his scoring record, which D3 school had the highest margin of victory?  Here's a hint... it wasn't Grinnell.

    What's your point? That there are other blowouts in Division III?

    According to Grinnell's website, when their season was on the line in the conference playoffs that year, no player played more than 17 minutes. No player took more than 22% of their shots. When they played Knox College that year, they won by 61 points. No one played more than 16 minutes. No one player took more than 16% of their shots.

    But against a non-DIII college in an otherwise meaningless regular season game, one player played 36 minutes, and took nearly 80% of their shots. Because once a year Grinnell runs up the score on specifically selected, overmatched opponents, often bible colleges (Who aren't even D-III members) for the express purpose of setting records. Because Grinnell wants to get some publicity for its program, so they abandon their system and just let one guy play pop-a-shot all game.

    And guess what? That's Grinnell's call. But it's everyone else's decision on how to react to them deciding to turn one game into a sideshow. I think it's a joke, and yes, it is enough to change how I feel about the program and what they do. So enjoy your empty records. I'll enjoy every time their season ends
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: madzillagd on December 22, 2013, 10:20:23 AM
    My point is if you don't like Grinnell because of bad sportsmanship then say you don't like Grinnell because of bad sportsmanship, but also hold other teams/coaches to the same standard. I'm ambivalent to Grinnell, I don't support them and I don't hate them, but I do believe they display poor sportsmanship in those games.

    That being said, I think it's ridiculous to use how many minutes a player plays to try and backup why they are poor sports. Yes, the system is typically played a certain way but as any coach does you make changes to your system during a game. You know the name Jack Taylor but do you know the name Alle Moreno?  Probably not.  Alle Moreno plays in the system as well and played 30 minutes the other night as the Sac State women upset Oregon. Was it poor sportsmanship when her teammates played 18-24 mins and she stayed in extra shifts and played 30 mins?  It's actually a normal occurrence in the system for players to do that. Gary Smith has helped implement the system at a couple high schools (and he is helping Sac St) around where I live and better players often get more minutes.

    The answer to the question above is UW-Platteville. Th night Grinnell won by 75, UW-P won by 85 over non-D3 Illinois Tech. I pointed that out then and got ripped by the UW fans because they thought their win should not be held in the same regard as the Grinnell game because they played all their subs. I disagree - if you are winning by 39 pts at half, and you jack up 16 three pointers in the second half and out score your opponent by 46 in the 2nd half instead of sitting on the ball that's being poor sports. If the other team has 41 turnovers and only gets off 22 shots in a game they obviously have no chance of coming back.

    Grinnell is obviously a lightning rod for how they play the game but I think we need to separate the style of play from how it is being coached. The system itself is harmless, it's a unique way so bring excitement to the game and get lots of people involved.  Coaching to run up a score (or failing to make changes to prevent that from happening) is bad form regardless of which style is being played.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 22, 2013, 11:43:53 AM
    Quote from: madzillagd on December 22, 2013, 10:20:23 AM
    My point is if you don't like Grinnell because of bad sportsmanship then say you don't like Grinnell because of bad sportsmanship, but also hold other teams/coaches to the same standard. I'm ambivalent to Grinnell, I don't support them and I don't hate them, but I do believe they display poor sportsmanship in those games.

    That being said, I think it's ridiculous to use how many minutes a player plays to try and backup why they are poor sports. Yes, the system is typically played a certain way but as any coach does you make changes to your system during a game. You know the name Jack Taylor but do you know the name Alle Moreno?  Probably not.  Alle Moreno plays in the system as well and played 30 minutes the other night as the Sac State women upset Oregon. Was it poor sportsmanship when her teammates played 18-24 mins and she stayed in extra shifts and played 30 mins?  It's actually a normal occurrence in the system for players to do that. Gary Smith has helped implement the system at a couple high schools (and he is helping Sac St) around where I live and better players often get more minutes.

    The answer to the question above is UW-Platteville. Th night Grinnell won by 75, UW-P won by 85 over non-D3 Illinois Tech. I pointed that out then and got ripped by the UW fans because they thought their win should not be held in the same regard as the Grinnell game because they played all their subs. I disagree - if you are winning by 39 pts at half, and you jack up 16 three pointers in the second half and out score your opponent by 46 in the 2nd half instead of sitting on the ball that's being poor sports. If the other team has 41 turnovers and only gets off 22 shots in a game they obviously have no chance of coming back.

    Grinnell is obviously a lightning rod for how they play the game but I think we need to separate the style of play from how it is being coached. The system itself is harmless, it's a unique way so bring excitement to the game and get lots of people involved.  Coaching to run up a score (or failing to make changes to prevent that from happening) is bad form regardless of which style is being played.

    "Alle Moreno plays in the system as well and played 30 minutes the other night as the Sac State women upset Oregon. Was it poor sportsmanship when her teammates played 18-24 mins and she stayed in extra shifts and played 30 mins "

    No. Because, and pay close attention here:

    Alle Moreno's last three-point attempt came with 1:44 to go and her team up seven points
    Jack Taylor's last three-point attempt came with 1:57 to go and his team up 67 points

    Serious question: Barring 25 technical fouls being called, is it actually possible to make up a 67 point deficit with 1:57 to go? I mean, that's a 17-possession game even if we assume Grinnell's dumb enough to foul on 17 straight made three-point attempts. I don't even think you'd have the time to do that.

    The problem with Grinnell leaving Taylor in the game and abandoning their system was because they were winning in blowout fashion. There was no need to leave Taylor in the game for 36 minutes. Grinnell was never up by fewer than 38 points in the second half. This Sac State-Oregon game was a game Sac State led the entire second half, but a seven point lead with 1:44 is hardly insurmountable

    As for "Call out other teams for doing it," there's one important distinction between the game you mentioned and the Grinnell one (actually, this is the distinction between most blowouts and the Grinnell one):

    While that Platteville game was an atrocity, I had no idea it occurred. Why? Because Platteville didn't schedule that game and say: "Hey, here's our chance to break a record and get in the news." That's precisely what Grinnell uses these games for. Someone posted the video of the game, and you can listen to the pregame where the announcers say as much.

    So you reap what you sow. Don't actively search for the spotlight and then shy away from scrutiny. I'm not going to click on every box score of every game where a team wins by 30+ points to see how long they left their starters in, and how many three pointers they shot, and then post about it. When I hear about things, I post about them, but I don't go actively searching for them. Grinnell makes it pretty easy to find however.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on December 22, 2013, 04:36:44 PM
    Wow, Pep is glad he asked about the "Grinnell Lite" label. Learned a lot. +K all around!

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 30, 2013, 03:07:07 AM
    St John Fisher defeated Southern Maine Sunday by a score of 77-65.

    Cardinals' Keegan Ryan led all scorers with 20 points (7x12 fg, 6x7 ft). Adam Ambielli had 18 points (5x11 fg, 5x7 3's, 3x3 ft) and Chaz Lott had 17 (5x10 fg, 0x1 3's, 7x8 ft). Lott led the team with 8 rebounds and 5 assists. Ryan also had 5 rebounds.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 03, 2014, 11:17:59 PM
    Fisher own tonight against Houghton, but does anyone know why Chaz Lott did not play?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 04, 2014, 12:04:36 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 03, 2014, 11:17:59 PM
    Fisher own tonight against Houghton, but does anyone know why Chaz Lott did not play?

    I watched about half of that game online and kept looking for Lott but the video wasn't very good. The camera was so far from the action that you could barely make out players numbers and they had to be stationary, with their back to you, to make them out. No announcing accompanied the videocast. No score overlaid on the screen and live stats were non-existant. It was pretty damn hard to even know what the score was. I did manage to identify by number, Kinard, Ryan,Hart and Cooney. Pulled up the Houghton team page on D3hoops and discovered they updated the score every couple of minutes. Occasionally during a timeout they would point the camera at the scoreboard. I never knew that Lott wasn't in that game until I got a look at the box score.  Fisher almost lost this game after leading by 12 at 54-42 with only 3:23 left in the game. A 12-2 run by the Highlanders brought them to within 2 points at 56-54 with 48 seconds left to play. Fortunately the Cardinals hit a pair of free throws to make it a 2 possession game and closed out Houghton.     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 04, 2014, 02:50:32 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 04, 2014, 12:04:36 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on January 03, 2014, 11:17:59 PM
    Fisher own tonight against Houghton, but does anyone know why Chaz Lott did not play?

    I watched about half of that game online and kept looking for Lott but the video wasn't very good. The camera was so far from the action that you could barely make out players numbers and they had to be stationary, with their back to you, to make them out. No announcing accompanied the videocast. No score overlaid on the screen and live stats were non-existant. It was pretty damn hard to even know what the score was. I did manage to identify by number, Kinard, Ryan,Hart and Cooney. Pulled up the Houghton team page on D3hoops and discovered they updated the score every couple of minutes. Occasionally during a timeout they would point the camera at the scoreboard. I never knew that Lott wasn't in that game until I got a look at the box score.  Fisher almost lost this game after leading by 12 at 54-42 with only 3:23 left in the game. A 12-2 run by the Highlanders brought them to within 2 points at 56-54 with 48 seconds left to play. Fortunately the Cardinals hit a pair of free throws to make it a 2 possession game and closed out Houghton.   

    Fisher up 9 at the half against Elmira, but no Chaz Lott for the second straight game. Not sure what the deal is, but this team will struggle without him if he is hurt or out for other reasons for any length of time. Fisher is fortunate that they played Houghton and Elmira without him. No disrespect to those teams but you would figure they will be toward the bottom of the league standings.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on January 06, 2014, 11:54:36 AM
    ITHACA
    1/3    at Hartwick * •    L, 92-50   
    1/4    at Stevens * •    L, 75-50

    I don't know what to think about these two scores above. You had to figure Ithaca would not be as good this year as the previous few years but opening conference play with these two games shocks me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 06, 2014, 01:02:37 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on January 06, 2014, 11:54:36 AM
    ITHACA
    1/3    at Hartwick * •    L, 92-50   
    1/4    at Stevens * •    L, 75-50

    I don't know what to think about these two scores above. You had to figure Ithaca would not be as good this year as the previous few years but opening conference play with these two games shocks me.

    NYHOOPS.

    I think the losses by the Bombers by those margins shocked everybody. I even checked the Hartwick and Stevens websites to make sure the scores weren't errors of some sort. Wonder when was the last time that Hartwick had 18 players get court time against Ithaca and it wasn't because the Bombers were blowing out the Hawks? 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 06, 2014, 02:19:33 PM
    Eh, how surprising is it really given the Bombers' losses? No team in the conference, and probably the region, lost as much as Ithaca did from last season. And the losses have the ripple effect of making even returning players less valuable. When Tom Sweeney picks up one foul every six minutes on the court last year, it's okay, because the Bombers have the pieces to replace him on the court. This year? Not so much.

    The team has just 5 upperclassmen on the roster. Two of them had, combined, 21 minutes on the court last season. And a guy they're counting on, Sweeney, has just not shown improvement as a player. Could be an ugly season, but I'm not THAT surprised
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 06, 2014, 04:09:57 PM
    It's not the losses as much as the margin of victory that I thought was an anomaly, and I'm sure NYHoops8 feels the same. A 42 point loss to a 6-5 Hartwick team is shocking to me. Even a 1-25 Houghton team last year didn't lose to anyone by 42 points. I know the Bombers lost a lot but they also have enough talent that most years they are respectable and end up around .500 even after they graduate impact players. It's not like the Empire 8 is loaded this year. There's a good chance the E8 will only be a one bid league come dance time.

    The last time, in a less than stellar season, that the Bombers suffered a defeat nearly as bad as this Hartwick loss, which is their worst loss in more than 7 years and possibly longer, was in the 06-07 season when they ended up with a 15-13 record. They lost to a   Division I Cornell team that year by 33 points,  80-47.

    I think if you put up a poll asking if Ithaca's 92-50 loss to Hartwick was shocking YES or NO.... most of the respondents would choose the affirmative.     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 06, 2014, 04:45:44 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 06, 2014, 04:09:57 PM
    It's not the losses as much as the margin of victory that I thought was an anomaly, and I'm sure NYHoops8 feels the same. A 42 point loss to a 6-5 Hartwick team is shocking to me. Even a 1-25 Houghton team last year didn't lose to anyone by 42 points. I know the Bombers lost a lot but they also have enough talent that most years they are respectable and end up around .500 even after they graduate impact players. It's not like the Empire 8 is loaded this year. There's a good chance the E8 will only be a one bid league come dance time.

    The last time, in a less than stellar season, that the Bombers suffered a defeat nearly as bad as this Hartwick loss, which is their worst loss in more than 7 years and possibly longer, was in the 06-07 season when they ended up with a 15-13 record. They lost to a   Division I Cornell team that year by 33 points,  80-47.

    I think if you put up a poll asking if Ithaca's 92-50 loss to Hartwick was shocking YES or NO.... most of the respondents would choose the affirmative.   

    Teams get blown out. Especially bad teams. Ithaca's a very bad team, and hence, it's not shocking they were blown out. At some point, margin of defeat becomes meaningless
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on January 08, 2014, 09:40:29 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 06, 2014, 04:45:44 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 06, 2014, 04:09:57 PM
    It's not the losses as much as the margin of victory that I thought was an anomaly, and I'm sure NYHoops8 feels the same. A 42 point loss to a 6-5 Hartwick team is shocking to me. Even a 1-25 Houghton team last year didn't lose to anyone by 42 points. I know the Bombers lost a lot but they also have enough talent that most years they are respectable and end up around .500 even after they graduate impact players. It's not like the Empire 8 is loaded this year. There's a good chance the E8 will only be a one bid league come dance time.

    The last time, in a less than stellar season, that the Bombers suffered a defeat nearly as bad as this Hartwick loss, which is their worst loss in more than 7 years and possibly longer, was in the 06-07 season when they ended up with a 15-13 record. They lost to a   Division I Cornell team that year by 33 points,  80-47.

    I think if you put up a poll asking if Ithaca's 92-50 loss to Hartwick was shocking YES or NO.... most of the respondents would choose the affirmative.   

    Teams get blown out. Especially bad teams. Ithaca's a very bad team, and hence, it's not shocking they were blown out. At some point, margin of defeat becomes meaningless

    I figured Ithaca would have a down year this year with all of their graduation losses but its still surprising to me that they would open conference play with a 40 point loss to Hartwick. Hard to figure out if Hartwick is that good (6-5 makes me skeptical) or if Ithaca is as bad as Bombers798891 says they are.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 08, 2014, 02:07:00 PM
    I agree Magicman that the E8 is most likely one bid league. I think the teams in contention for the league title are Hartwick, Naz, Fisher. Stevens with an outside chance i think. I think if a team wants to get in an At Large they need to be in the Conference championship and have at least 20-21 wins. If the E8 gets one Bid. I think the SUNYAC has a chance to be 3 bid league depending on the amount of losses.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on January 08, 2014, 09:12:45 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on January 08, 2014, 02:07:00 PM
    I think the SUNYAC has a chance to be 3 bid league depending on the amount of losses.

    I like this Cahill guy! ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on January 09, 2014, 08:45:46 AM
    Alfred 99 Nazareth 87

    The E8 is even harder to figure out after reading this score.   :o
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2014, 11:30:33 AM
    I can't decide if Alfred games are going to be exciting to watch or boring. According to the stats, the average Alfred game features 52 fouls and 64 FT attempts. The Hilbert game had 61 fouls and 79 free throw attempts. High scoring games are fun. An endless parade of fouls and free throws are not. Especially considering Alfred is dreadful at free throws.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 09, 2014, 02:14:00 PM
    This League is almost wide open. Alfred looked like a Good team last night against Naz! suprising loss for the Golden Flyers. Good to see Coach Wellman get off to a good start though. I think the best 4 teams right Now are Naz, Hartwick, Fisher, Stevens. Thinking that Hartwick could get the 1 seed from my eye test Naz or Stevens at the 2 or 3 seed. And Alfred or St John Fisher. If Chaz Lott is going to be out for a while it could hurt Fishers chances of even making the Tournament. But who knows what could happen.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 10, 2014, 08:25:57 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2014, 11:30:33 AM
    I can't decide if Alfred games are going to be exciting to watch or boring. According to the stats, the average Alfred game features 52 fouls and 64 FT attempts. The Hilbert game had 61 fouls and 79 free throw attempts. High scoring games are fun. An endless parade of fouls and free throws are not. Especially considering Alfred is dreadful at free throws.

    Are you going to tonight's game? If the roads are dry, Pep might take a little ride over to South Hill. Heck, Pep has logged a good 3500 miles during the past week or so....why slow down now?

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 10, 2014, 11:33:35 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 10, 2014, 08:25:57 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 09, 2014, 11:30:33 AM
    I can't decide if Alfred games are going to be exciting to watch or boring. According to the stats, the average Alfred game features 52 fouls and 64 FT attempts. The Hilbert game had 61 fouls and 79 free throw attempts. High scoring games are fun. An endless parade of fouls and free throws are not. Especially considering Alfred is dreadful at free throws.

    Are you going to tonight's game? If the roads are dry, Pep might take a little ride over to South Hill. Heck, Pep has logged a good 3500 miles during the past week or so....why slow down now?

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Pep, nope, it's not in my plans. Moved about 15-20 minutes from campus, and it's just not worth the trip when the team is this poor. Would have loved to see this Alfred team against the 2008-09 Bombers though! Good luck!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 10, 2014, 10:46:44 PM
    Wow...just wow.

    This is the fourth game this year the Bombers have lost by 25 or more points. It's almost shocking how far this team has fallen in one year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 10, 2014, 10:57:24 PM
    Stevens Tech 96  Nazareth 88   in overtime

    These teams were deadlocked at the half at 30 and deadlocked at the end of regulation at 78. Stevens was down 6 with 22 seconds to play after 2 Nazareth free throws. They got a 3 pointer with 17 seconds left, and fouled Naz with 12 seconds left. Naz makes 1 of 2 to make it a 2 possession game at 78-74. Stevens goes coast to coast and scores with 5 seconds left and calls time out. Ducks foul on the inbounds with 4 seconds remaining and the Naz player misses them both. Stevens gets the rebound and fires up a jumper with 1 second left and ties the game. After they traded baskets twice in OT, Naz goes to the line and makes 1 of 2 to regain the lead at 83-82.
    Stevens scored 7 straight points and went in front 89-83 eventually building a double digit 95-85 advantage as Nazareth was forced to foul. Stevens made enough of their free throws down the stretch to hold off the Golden Flyers and walk out of Kidera Gymnasium with a victory they probably shouldn't have.

    Alfred 94     Ithaca 87    I hope Pep got to see the Saxons win their  2nd in a row in conference play.

    Hartwick 84  St John Fisher 82

    Elmira 53 Utica 49

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 12, 2014, 12:03:02 AM
    Quote from: magicman on January 10, 2014, 10:57:24 PM
    Stevens Tech 96  Nazareth 88   in overtime

    These teams were deadlocked at the half at 30 and deadlocked at the end of regulation at 78. Stevens was down 6 with 22 seconds to play after 2 Nazareth free throws. They got a 3 pointer with 17 seconds left, and fouled Naz with 12 seconds left. Naz makes 1 of 2 to make it a 2 possession game at 78-74. Stevens goes coast to coast and scores with 5 seconds left and calls time out. Ducks foul on the inbounds with 4 seconds remaining and the Naz player misses them both. Stevens gets the rebound and fires up a jumper with 1 second left and ties the game. After they traded baskets twice in OT, Naz goes to the line and makes 1 of 2 to regain the lead at 83-82.
    Stevens scored 7 straight points and went in front 89-83 eventually building a double digit 95-85 advantage as Nazareth was forced to foul. Stevens made enough of their free throws down the stretch to hold off the Golden Flyers and walk out of Kidera Gymnasium with a victory they probably shouldn't have.

    Alfred 94     Ithaca 87    I hope Pep got to see the Saxons win their  2nd in a row in conference play.

    Hartwick 84  St John Fisher 82

    Elmira 53 Utica 49

    Pep watched the webcast....final score was AU 94, Ithaca 67. But Pep DID see the Saxons in person today at McLane Center, where they held off a pesky Elmira team, 80-64. Who'd have thunk the Saxons would be the only E8 team unbeaten in conference play after three games?

    The new Wellman System has been getting it done thus far.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: scooterman on January 12, 2014, 04:17:42 PM
    Who's in charge of the defense at Ithaca? Let Coach Burton take charge of the defense--He'll turn it around
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 13, 2014, 11:48:05 AM
    Quote from: scooterman on January 12, 2014, 04:17:42 PM
    Who's in charge of the defense at Ithaca? Let Coach Burton take charge of the defense--He'll turn it around

    Ithaca ranks first in the conference in opponent's FG percentage. They've had some poor games defensively, but they're not a bad defensive team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 13, 2014, 03:26:29 PM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on January 13, 2014, 11:48:05 AM
    Quote from: scooterman on January 12, 2014, 04:17:42 PM
    Who's in charge of the defense at Ithaca? Let Coach Burton take charge of the defense--He'll turn it around

    Ithaca ranks first in the conference in opponent's FG percentage. They've had some poor games defensively, but they're not a bad defensive team.

    The E8 stats are interesting. For instance, AU is in the cellar for 3-pt shooting percentage at 29.4% but has made 30 more 3-pt field goals than the team with the best 3-pt shooting percentage. And, bipolarly, the Saxons are the best at defending the 3-pt shot as opponents have made only 25.7% of their 3-pointers.

    AU's +10.8 turnover margin has led to the Saxons getting off 21 more shots per game than their opponent. It also has the Saxons ranked second in the nation...second to, you guessed it, Grinnell!

    Pep hopes to be watching this weekend's games online as Hartwick and Stevens on the road present a real challenge for Wellman's Warriors!

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on January 14, 2014, 11:58:26 AM
    Can Alfred win the E8?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 14, 2014, 02:02:32 PM
    I dont think Alfred is going to win the League. i think they will end up with a good record and finish 3rd or 4th. but wouldnt it be Incredible for Alfred.??? Going from worst 3 in the Empire 8 to winning the league in one year!!! Shows how this "Grinnell" style of play can be effective for Teams. Especially teams with less talent
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 14, 2014, 10:17:40 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on January 14, 2014, 02:02:32 PM
    I dont think Alfred is going to win the League. i think they will end up with a good record and finish 3rd or 4th. but wouldnt it be Incredible for Alfred.??? Going from worst 3 in the Empire 8 to winning the league in one year!!! Shows how this "Grinnell" style of play can be effective for Teams. Especially teams with less talent

    Pep certainly doesn't expect the Saxons to win the league. Heck, getting 3 conference wins already exceeds the E8 coaches' expectations. And one can argue that AU may have "less talent" than other teams (and certainly there won't be any Saxons leading the E8 individual stats), but Pep wonders whether any E8 squads have either a deep bench or a starting unit that can keep pace with the Saxons? A hot shooting team can beat AU...if the Saxons have a cold night. But after 12 games, AU is taking 21 more shots per game than their opponent, thanks to 14 steals per game (best in the nation).

    Wellman has done an admirable job of recruiting...assembling a fine group of unselfish student-athletes who seem to be having a lot of fun! Pep would love to play on a team where most everyone plays every game. Pep is thinking Wellman has something special here in Mayberry.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on January 16, 2014, 04:11:35 PM
    We will know for sure after this weekend if Alfred is for real with road games against Hartwick and Stevens.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 16, 2014, 04:56:45 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on January 16, 2014, 04:11:35 PM
    We will know for sure after this weekend if Alfred is for real with road games against Hartwick and Stevens.

    True dat....+K
    Go get 'em, Saxons!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 18, 2014, 09:52:58 AM
    The Bombers lose by 23 last night. Ugly season for Ithaca
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 18, 2014, 12:02:25 PM
    Saxons drop a barnburner at Hartwick, 131-124 in OT. Credit the Hawks with hot shooting...and to the Saxons for never giving up!
    Hoping AU can bounce back at Stevens today.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 18, 2014, 03:43:14 PM
    It looks like Fisher will beat Utica today for a 2 win weekend, and their 7th win out of the last 8 games (lost to Hartwick). As on this team as I was earlier in the year, they seem to be rounding into form.  Still not sure if they are good or consistent enough to win the league, but they playing much better.

    P.S. Nothing to do with basketball, but I was reading a boom by Malcolm Gladwell the other day and he had a chapter that featured Hartwick. Just thought that was cool.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on January 20, 2014, 02:18:11 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on January 16, 2014, 04:11:35 PM
    We will know for sure after this weekend if Alfred is for real with road games against Hartwick and Stevens.

    I think we found out that Alfred can put a scare into anyone but may not be ready to take that next step to get into the conference tournament. Taking Hartwick into OT on the road is a building block for this Alfred team.

    .....With that said, home court is going to be a major factor going into the E8 playoffs. The top 4 teams seem to be all on par with each other. The conference championship may come down to whoever hosts the tourney.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 21, 2014, 03:50:24 PM
    With the Regional Rankingscoming out here soon. Here's how i think they will look like!
    1. Brockport State 11-1 Overall 5-0 Conference SOS 60
    2. Plattsburgh State 10-3 Overall 4-2 Conference SOS 40
    3. Geneseo State 10-2 Overall 4-1 Conference SOS 173
    4. New York University 11-3 Overall 1-2 Conference SOS 195
    5. Hobart 10-4 Overall 4-1 Conference SOS 179
    6. St John Fisher 10-5 Overall 4-1 Conference SOS 189

    In contention, Nazareth, Stevens, Oneonta, Hartwick, Oswego State, Skidmore.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 25, 2014, 05:04:57 PM
    Saxons get a big road win at Fisher, 97-95 with a buzzer-beater by Tim Pacheco. Saxons led most of the way but Fisher rallied to tie the game at 95-95 on Adam Ambielli's three-pointer and subsequent free throw as he was fouled on the shot, with just 6 seconds remaining. Then Pacheco hit the game-winner at the buzzer for AU.

    Pep wished he could have watched the game but was in attendance at the AU Football Banquet. Nevertheless, Saxons come through in a must-win situation to keep afloat in the E8 standings.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 26, 2014, 05:05:30 PM
    Not sure what may have taken place in the Alfred-Fisher game, but noticed in the box score and play by play that Keegan Ryan only played 15 minutes in that game. He had 12 minutes in the 1st half but in the 2nd half with 17:22 on the clock he was involved in a series underneath that basket where he missed a layup, got the rebound, missed again, got the rebound and finally scored the basket. That occurred at 17:08. A foul was called at the same time on an Alfred player, but Ryan wasn't the Fisher player shooting the free throw. Keegan went to the bench at the same time and never returned to the game. He may have been injured on the play and may be the player that was fouled but was unable to shoot the free throw. According to the play by play Stefan Bock missed a free throw at the same time Keegan made his basket and went to the bench, never to return. I can't imagine any other reason why Fisher would play, basically the entire 2nd half without their big man and it may have been a big factor in the outcome of the game.

    Certainly hope if it was an injury, it's nothing serious or will result in a prolonged absence from the lineup. In checking the write up about the game and on Fisher's website there is no mention of an injury to Keegan, so this may be idle speculation on my part. It just seems like that would be the only reason he came out of a close game and never returned. Hope I'm wrong. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 26, 2014, 08:45:32 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 26, 2014, 05:05:30 PM
    Not sure what may have taken place in the Alfred-Fisher game, but noticed in the box score and play by play that Keegan Ryan only played 15 minutes in that game. He had 12 minutes in the 1st half but in the 2nd half with 17:22 on the clock he was involved in a series underneath that basket where he missed a layup, got the rebound, missed again, got the rebound and finally scored the basket. That occurred at 17:08. A foul was called at the same time on an Alfred player, but Ryan wasn't the Fisher player shooting the free throw. Keegan went to the bench at the same time and never returned to the game. He may have been injured on the play and may be the player that was fouled but was unable to shoot the free throw. According to the play by play Stefan Bock missed a free throw at the same time Keegan made his basket and went to the bench, never to return. I can't imagine any other reason why Fisher would play, basically the entire 2nd half without their big man and it may have been a big factor in the outcome of the game.

    Certainly hope if it was an injury, it's nothing serious or will result in a prolonged absence from the lineup. In checking the write up about the game and on Fisher's website there is no mention of an injury to Keegan, so this may be idle speculation on my part. It just seems like that would be the only reason he came out of a close game and never returned. Hope I'm wrong.

    Good observation, magic. Pep hadn't noticed that. At that particular point in the game, the Saxons were up, 59-50. Sans Ryan, the Cardinals closed the gap the rest of the way and, in what must have been a nail-biter, tied it up at 95-95 with 6 seconds remaining.

    Pep wonders whether the Saxons' up tempo play had anything to do with Ryan's not returning to the floor, with (AU grad) Coach Kornaker opting to go with a quicker leaner lineup. Mere speculation. But that's a lot of running up and down the floor for a big guy...and the pace tends to neutralize, in Pep's humble opinion, a big man's impact on the game. Just a thought. Wasn't there. Pep wishes he could have seen it. Had to have been a thriller.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 26, 2014, 09:57:18 PM
    Magicman: You were correct. Pep has it from a reliable source at the game that it appeared he may have rolled his ankle. Hoping for a quick recovery.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 26, 2014, 10:53:49 PM
    Thanks Pep,

    I thought about what you said earlier about the up and down fast paced play leading Coach Kornaker to go with a different lineup but thought it might have led to reduced minutes for Ryan but not a complete shutdown of the big guy. He can get up and down the court fairly well.

    You were right though, the Cardinals did manage to overcome that 9 point deficit without Ryan on the floor. He may not have made any difference in the outcome.

    The rolled ankle certainly explains things. Hope he is ready by Tuesday when they travel to Nazareth. Plus K
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 27, 2014, 09:17:15 AM
    A magicman was driving down the road ... then he turned into a drive way.

    #badjokemonday
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on January 27, 2014, 11:10:12 AM
    A multiple game injury to Keegan Ryan may put St John Fisher on the outside looking in for the playoff race after next weekend. Looking at their schedule, they play at Nazareth on Tuesday and then go on the road to play Stevens and Hartwick. That's a tough stretch to play without your best big man.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 28, 2014, 08:49:20 PM
    Saxons capture the mythical Allegany County Championship with a 103-73 win over Houghton College in a game played at McLane Center earlier tonight. The Saxons do NOT play cross-street D3 upstart Alfred State, which lost to Houghton earlier in the season, 80-58; however, the Saxons are 2-0 in Allegany County play, having defeated Houghton 106-91 Friday night on the Highlanders' court. Houghton is 1-2 in county play, while Alfred State is 0-1.

    Elsewhere in the E8 tonight, home standing Nazareth gets an 87-84 win over cross-street rival St. John Fisher. The Golden Flyers move to 5-2 in E8 play while Fisher falls to 5-3. Fisher's big frosh Keegan Ryan did not play.

    In Elmira, the Ithaca Bombers eke out a 69-68 win over the Soaring Eagles. It was the Bombers' first conference win. Ithaca (5-14) is now 1-8 in E8 play, while Elmira (5-11) is 1-5 in the E8.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: 7express on January 29, 2014, 01:58:56 AM
    Why has Ithaca played so many more E8 games than Elmira??  I know they all end up with the same number at the end of the season, but weird to see that big of a disparity.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 29, 2014, 08:43:16 AM
    Quote from: 7express on January 29, 2014, 01:58:56 AM
    Why has Ithaca played so many more E8 games than Elmira??  I know they all end up with the same number at the end of the season, but weird to see that big of a disparity.

    Pep still hasn't figured out the Empire 8 scheduling but certainly a ninth team in the mix (Houghton, although their games don't count in the standings), throws a wrench into scheduling. One team always gets a bye during a day of conference games.

    Pep had a similar experience in a nine-team YMCA Biddy League, where he was a stellar (didn't you mean 'cellar'?) coach.  ;)

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 30, 2014, 08:41:21 AM
    Just in case there is anybody out there that's interested, the Plattsburgh State head coach, Tom Curle, will be on the marathon 12 hour Hoopsville show taking place today on the D3hoops website. 

    Hoopsville, hosted by Dave McHugh will come on the air at 10:00 AM today and run for 12 straight hours until 10:00 PM tonight. Here's a link that should bring you to the correct website or you can get it off the front page of D3hoops: 

    http://d3hoops.com/hoopsville/index

    Coach Curle  is scheduled to be on the show at  approximately11:00 AM for an interview that will last around 15 to 20 minutes.

    As an added attraction, your friendly neighborhood magicman, will also get to mutter into the microphone for a few minutes at the end of Coach Curle's interview. Hopefully for the benefit of the hoopsville listeners it will be for a very few minutes.

    And don't forget this marathon broadcast by Dave McHugh is part of his Hoopsville Contribution Campaign to raise money to upgrade the program and make the D3 experience better for all of us. If you haven't already done so please consider making a contribution to help Dave (and ultimately all of us that have chosen to make D3hoops a part of our life) improve the overall quality of the only program out there that is devoted to Division 3 basketball. Remember you don't have to make a $100 or $250 contribution to be counted . In these tough economic times a $10 gift, done by just a small percentage of the people that enjoy this website would put Dave way over the top of his desired goal. So dig deep and give up a couple of drinks at the local watering hole this week and you won't even feel that contribution leave your pocket. Thanks for listening. 8-)           
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 30, 2014, 10:09:45 AM
    Pep was working part-time at Alfred State at the time Coach Curle was head coach of the Alfred State Pioneers. Top notch guy. Have followed his coaching career ever since.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 30, 2014, 10:15:41 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 30, 2014, 10:09:45 AM
    Pep was working part-time at Alfred State at the time Coach Curle was head coach of the Alfred State Pioneers. Top notch guy. Have followed his coaching career ever since.

    You got that part right Pep. Plus K as ususal.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on January 30, 2014, 11:54:38 AM
    Quote from: magicman on January 26, 2014, 10:53:49 PM
    Thanks Pep,

    I thought about what you said earlier about the up and down fast paced play leading Coach Kornaker to go with a different lineup but thought it might have led to reduced minutes for Ryan but not a complete shutdown of the big guy. He can get up and down the court fairly well.

    You were right though, the Cardinals did manage to overcome that 9 point deficit without Ryan on the floor. He may not have made any difference in the outcome.

    The rolled ankle certainly explains things. Hope he is ready by Tuesday when they travel to Nazareth. Plus K

    Keegan Ryan did not play Tuesday. If he can't play this weekend, Fisher may be in line for an 0-2 weekend that would put them in danger of missing the E8 tourney. Alfred can be the benificiary and make a statement by going on the road and taking two winnable games at Utica and Elmira.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 31, 2014, 10:42:15 PM
    Is there an E8 team any hotter than the Nazareth Golden Flyers right now? They win AT Hartwick, 82-72 tonight to hand the Hawks only their second conference loss.

    Meanwhile, St. John Fisher's big man Keegan Ryan back in the lineup for the Cardinals tonight, but they fall at Stevens, 76-59, their third straight loss. It doesn't get any easier tomorrow as the Cardinals visit Oneonta to face the Hawks, who are not likely happy after dropping a home game to the Flyers.

    Alfred ekes out a 96-93 win at Utica, despite trailing most of the game. A Ryan Mahon 3-pointer with 1 second remaining lifts the Saxons to victory. Saxons are off tomorrow and play at Elmira Tuesday night.

    On Saxon Warriors!


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 01, 2014, 11:08:56 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 31, 2014, 10:42:15 PM
    Is there an E8 team any hotter than the Nazareth Golden Flyers right now? They win AT Hartwick, 82-72 tonight to hand the Hawks only their second conference loss.

    Meanwhile, St. John Fisher's big man Keegan Ryan back in the lineup for the Cardinals tonight, but they fall at Stevens, 76-59, their third straight loss. It doesn't get any easier tomorrow as the Cardinals visit Oneonta to face the Hawks, who are not likely happy after dropping a home game to the Flyers.

    Alfred ekes out a 96-93 win at Utica, despite trailing most of the game. A Ryan Mahon 3-pointer with 1 second remaining lifts the Saxons to victory. Saxons are off tomorrow and play at Elmira Tuesday night.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Alfred is in a great position to get into the E8 playoffs. Nazareth has been on a roll and their loss was to today's opponent: Stevens. Should be a good one in New Jersey today.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 01, 2014, 11:35:10 AM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on February 01, 2014, 11:08:56 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 31, 2014, 10:42:15 PM
    Is there an E8 team any hotter than the Nazareth Golden Flyers right now? They win AT Hartwick, 82-72 tonight to hand the Hawks only their second conference loss.

    Meanwhile, St. John Fisher's big man Keegan Ryan back in the lineup for the Cardinals tonight, but they fall at Stevens, 76-59, their third straight loss. It doesn't get any easier tomorrow as the Cardinals visit Oneonta to face the Hawks, who are not likely happy after dropping a home game to the Flyers.

    Alfred ekes out a 96-93 win at Utica, despite trailing most of the game. A Ryan Mahon 3-pointer with 1 second remaining lifts the Saxons to victory. Saxons are off tomorrow and play at Elmira Tuesday night.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Alfred is in a great position to get into the E8 playoffs. Nazareth has been on a roll and their loss was to today's opponent: Stevens. Should be a good one in New Jersey today.

    Alfred will have a tough stretch coming up...at Elmira Tuesday, which always plays the Saxons tough, then there's Stevens and Hartwick coming into McLane Friday-Saturday. The Saxons are 6-0 at home this season but the competition, aside from Naz and Elmira, hasn't been of the caliber they'll be facing next weekend. Pep is just hoping that the Saxons get the student/community support they so deserve with these big home games down the stretch. Pep Rally!

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 01, 2014, 11:58:53 PM
    In Empire 8 action today, Elmira gets a 76-65 win over Utica.
    Hartwick outscores Fisher 46-25 in the second half to earn a weekend split by beating the Cardinals, 77-65.
    And, Stevens snaps a Naz win streak, edging the Golden Flyers, 73-69.

    Hartwick and Stevens atop the standings at 8-2, Alfred and Nazareth hanging around at 5-2 and 6-3, respectively, while Fisher still in contention for the Conference Tourney at 5-5. Elmira at 2-5, has won two in a row over Houghton (does not count in standings) and Utica.

    Pep was at a bustling Hornell Wegmans early this afternoon and saw a few members of the Saxon basketball team and, upon seeing them, made a scene by raising his arms above his head and declaring, "SAXONS!!!"

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 04, 2014, 08:38:22 AM
    The E8 has an opportunity to gain some attention nationally when Stevens hosts Williams in New Jersey tonight. Stevens upset Williams last year on the Ephs home court. I can see this being a very close game to the end.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 04, 2014, 10:48:20 AM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on February 04, 2014, 08:38:22 AM
    The E8 has an opportunity to gain some attention nationally when Stevens hosts Williams in New Jersey tonight. Stevens upset Williams last year on the Ephs home court. I can see this being a very close game to the end.

    I think for Stevens to keep this game close they need to have their best effort of the year. I hope I'm wrong but I can see Williams winning this game by double digits.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 04, 2014, 11:34:52 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 04, 2014, 10:48:20 AM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on February 04, 2014, 08:38:22 AM
    The E8 has an opportunity to gain some attention nationally when Stevens hosts Williams in New Jersey tonight. Stevens upset Williams last year on the Ephs home court. I can see this being a very close game to the end.

    I think for Stevens to keep this game close they need to have their best effort of the year. I hope I'm wrong but I can see Williams winning this game by double digits.

    Agreed. I don't believe Stevens has the weapons to outscore Williams but Stevens seems to be a very good defensive team and playing at home on a weekday is a huge advantage.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 04, 2014, 01:17:02 PM
    I think playing at Stevens is one of the hardest places to play! Stevens is a very very good team i believe. They are Quick, they pressure the ball and make shots. Stevens can win this game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: amh63 on February 04, 2014, 05:37:19 PM
    NYHOOPS....FYI, D3hoops website now shows a direct link to the Williams vs. Stevens game.  Starts at 6PM.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 04, 2014, 07:49:24 PM
    Saxons drop an 80-63 game at Elmira as the Soaring Eagles take their third straight win and shut down the high-scoring Alfred team. Elmira opened the game with a 16-0 run and led 38-27 at halftime. Saxons never really recovered. AU didn't look sharp early and couldn't buy a basket. Here's hoping the Saxons fare better this weekend.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 04, 2014, 09:34:31 PM
    Final score:    Williams 83  Stevens 68

    I was hoping that I would be proven wrong but Williams had too much firepower for the Ducks to handle. I was afraid of 6'7" freshman forward Duncan Robinson and  6'9" senior center Mike Mayer in particular. They didn't disappoint as Robinson had 22 to lead all scorers and was deadly from long distance where I thought he would be. He was 5x8 on his 3 point attempts. Mayer had 18 points mostly on inside layups and showed why he's consider one of the best big men in the NESCAC conference.

    Stevens hung tough and actually had the lead at the break 33-32. The Ducks continued to play well into the 2nd half and still had the lead at 42-41 with 14:27 left to play. That's when Williams broke out in a big way as freshman guard Mike Greenman nailed a three pointer. Robinson followed that with a 3 point play of his own that featured a hoop and harm. Greenman made another 3 pointer, reserve Ryan Kilcullen got into the act with his 2nd three pointer of the game and just for good measure junior guard Daniel Wohl dropped one in from long distance. Suddenly Williams went from a point behind to a 14 point lead at 56-42 in the span of of 4 minutes. Stevens finally broke the drought with a dunk by Patrick Sabatino only to have Williams' Daniel Wohl convert another 3 point play to make it 59-44 and the Ephs had made 6 conseccutive 3 point scores by 5 different players to stun the Stevens crowd.  The Ducks fought back and got the lead back to single digits only to have Mayer hit another layup, and a short time later was followed by back to back three pointers again, by Duncan Robinson, to once more extend the lead to the largest of the night at 69-53 with just under 5 minutes to play.  The closest the Ducks got after that was 10 points as the Ephs hit 4 of 6 from the line and Mayer got loose for another pair of layups to close this one out.

    Nice effort by Stevens for 3 quarters of the game but Williams had too much talent for this team, this year.     
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 05, 2014, 09:39:22 AM
    Stevens had a good effort against Williams but Williams' outside shooting and height was too much for them to handle in the second half. Stevens started a tiny lineup against the huge frontline of Williams. One of their starting big men did not play.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 07, 2014, 10:45:31 PM
    Saxons lead the entire way and hold off Stevens, 100-88, after the Ducks evened the score at 74. Frosh guard Tyler Seelman responded with a deep trey, with Lothridge fouled after the shot under the basket. His first free throw was good to give AU a 78-74 lead, which they never relinquished.

    Meanwhile, down I-86, Elmira wins its fourth straight with a mild 81-75 upset win over Hartwick.  Elsewhere tonight, Nazareth tops Ithaca, 76-64 and St. John Fisher defeats Houghton, 89-59. That leaves FOUR E8 teams with 3 conference losses, Elmira and St. John Fisher with 5 losses.

    Stevens 8-3; Hartwick 8-3; Nazareth 7-3; Alfred 6-3; Fisher 6-5; Elmira 4-5; Ithaca 1-9; Utica 1-10.

    Saturday's Matchups:
    Stevens at Elmira
    Hartwick at Alfred
    St. John Fisher at Ithaca
    Houghton at Nazareth

    On Saxon Warriors!



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 08, 2014, 01:02:38 AM
    Wow Pep,
    Congrats on the big win over Stevens. Hope you can pull off another big win later today. 8-)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 08, 2014, 06:57:50 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 08, 2014, 01:02:38 AM
    Wow Pep,
    Congrats on the big win over Stevens. Hope you can pull off another big win later today. 8-)

    ....and a big win for Coach Curle's Cardinals! Wow! Must have been a great game. Packed house at Brockport?

    Pep was pleased with attendance at the AU-Stevens game (Saxons for Saxons Night) but puzzled by the box score saying it was 200. The place was rockin' with courtside bleachers just about full and the balcony at least 50% filled. Capacity currently listed at 1700. Open the other side bleachers and capacity is 2500. Pep would be willing to bet there were at least 750 in attendance at the game. Fun atmosphere.

    No time to celebrate.....back to work against Hartwick today!

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 08, 2014, 04:33:49 PM
    Saxons wear down the Hartwick Hawks, taking a 105-98 win at McLane Center. Pep is just back from the game and is elated that the Saxons took down E8 front-runners Stevens and Hartwick back-to-back. AU remains in the E8 mix with a 16-5 overall and 7-3 E8 mark, while Hartwick falls to 13-9 (8-4 E8).

    Pep was a bit puzzled by a Hartwick lady fan who contended that Alfred "stinks."
    "Did you see the game at Hartwick?" she asked, "Your team stinks."
    "How many All-Americans does Alfred have?" she asked.
    Pep raised his hand formed in a "0".
    "Our leading scorer is averaging 12 points a game," Pep replied, "Yet the Saxons are the second leading team in the nation in scoring."
    "Hartwick is right up there, too!" she countered.
    "Wait 'til you meet the big guys," she said.
    "Yeah, wait 'til you meet the big boys!" she repeated and, perhaps thinking Pep was hard of hearing, repeated again,
    "Wait until you meet the big boys."

    When it was all over, Pep wished her safe travels and we embarked on a civil conversation. All's well that ends well. Pep thanked her for coming to the game and wished her well.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 08, 2014, 04:39:33 PM
    In other Empire 8 games today, St. John Fisher kept pace with an 81-71 win at Ithaca. Cardinals now (14-9, 7-5 E8).
    Stevens overcame a 20-point second half deficit to escape Elmira with a 60-58 win and take over first place in the E8 at (15-7, 9-3 E8)
    And, in a game that does not figure in standings, Nazareth defeated Houghton, 74-46. Naz now (15-6, 7-3).


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 08, 2014, 04:57:50 PM
    Pep should have said to the lady, to paraphrase Walt Kelly...We have met the big boys and they are us! ;D

    Again another nice win for the Alfred Saxons, to beat both the frontrunners on consecutive days is quite noteworthy. Good luck in the stretch run, Pep.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 08, 2014, 09:37:32 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 08, 2014, 04:57:50 PM
    Pep should have said to the lady, to paraphrase Walt Kelly...We have met the big boys and they are us! ;D

    Again another nice win for the Alfred Saxons, to beat both the frontrunners on consecutive days is quite noteworthy. Good luck in the stretch run, Pep.

    +K magic
    The lady was correct in most everything she said.

    "Hartwick's right up there, too (leading team in scoring)"....Hawks are tied for 24th in the nation, scoring an average of 83.3 ppg.

    Jared "Suds" Suderley, no doubt an All-American, ranks 36th in the nation in scoring, averaging 20.5 ppg and is 9th in the nation with 12 double doubles. He had 13 rebounds and 28 points today.

    When the two teams met at Hartwick earlier this season, Alfred scored 124 points in a 131-124 overtime loss. Pep doesn't know too many teams that put 124 points on the scoreboard who "stink" unless they all refused to wear deodorant.  ;)

    To his credit, Coach Dale Wellman has built a solid well-balanced squad that this year has blossomed in a new scheme. Early in the season, Pep wondered whether the Saxons could keep up their high-scoring once they started playing  conference games. They've made a believer of Pep.

    Pep doesn't care whether AU has any All-Americans...because the Saxons play as a T E A M.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 09, 2014, 03:31:15 PM
    With Regional Rankings on its way this week heres how I think the East Regional Rankings will look like
    1. Brockport
    2. Plattsburgh
    3. Geneseo
    4. NYU
    5. Hobart
    6. Stevens
    I think Nazareth is 7th and Vassar 8th. Main reason I think Stevens is ahead of Naz is because they beat them twice.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2014, 05:46:55 PM
    Another episode of Hoopsville is slated for tonight and we have Nazareth MBB coach Kevin Broderick scheduled to join us along with the following guests:

    - Pomona-Pitzer MBB coach Charles Katsiaficas
    - #15 Wittenberg MBB coach Bill Brown
    - #2 Hope WBB coach Brian Morehouse
    - Stevenson WBB coach Jackie Boswell
    - Maryville WBB coach Darrin Travillian
    - Trinity (TX) WBB coach Cameron Hill
    - St. Mary's (Md.) MBB coach Chris Harney

    Show starts at 7 PM EST and will run at least 2:30 tonight.

    You can tune in here: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2013-14/feb13 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2013-14/jan12)

    You can also follow us on social media
    - Twitter (@d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) and #Hoopsville)
    - Facebook (www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville))
    - Email (hoopsville@d3hoops.com)

    Thanks and enjoy the show!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 14, 2014, 07:55:38 AM
    Big night at St. John Fisher as the Cardinals (14-9, 7-5) in a must-win situation as they host their cross-street rival Nazareth Golden Flyers (15-6, 7-3) in a critical Empire 8 matchup.

    Elsewhere, Utica (7-14, 1-10) which lost to Alfred at the buzzer at home recently, travels to McLane Center where the Saxons (16-5, 7-3) are unbeaten this season at 8-0, and fighting for an Empire 8 Conference berth.

    A hot Elmira squad (9-12, 4-6) hoping to avenge a one-point loss to Ithaca (6-16, 1-10) will travel up Rt. 13 to take on the Bombers at Ben Light Gymnasium.

    Empire 8 Standings going into this weekend's games:
    Stevens (9-3), Alfred (7-3), Naz (7-3), Hartwick (8-4), Fisher (7-5), Elmira (4-6), Ithaca (1-10), Utica (1-10) Houghton (N-A)

    Saturday's Games:
    Fisher at Alfred
    Naz at Elmira
    Utica at Ithaca

    After this weekend:
    Stevens has games remaining at Hartwick (Feb. 18) and against Elmira (Feb. 21)
    Alfred has games at Naz (Feb. 18) and against Ithaca (Feb. 22)
    Nazareth hosts AU Feb. 18 and plays at Utica Feb. 21.
    Hartwick hosts Stevens (Feb. 18) and Elmira (Feb. 22).

    On Saxon Warriors!



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 14, 2014, 07:58:41 PM
    Cardinals hold on to defeat cross-street rival Nazareth, 67-65 as Fisher improves to 8-5 in the E8, while Nazareth goes to 7-4.
    AU knocks off Utica, 116-94 to improve to 8-3 in the E8, half game behind Stevens (9-3).
    Tyler Dibble scores on a layup with 3 seconds remaining to give Elmira a 69-68 win over Ithaca at Ben Light. Score was identical to Ithaca's win at Elmira on Jan. 28.

    Saturday's 2 p.m. Tipoffs:
    St. John Fisher (8-5) at Alfred (8-3)
    Nazareth (7-4) at Elmira (5-6)
    Utica (1-10) at Ithaca (1-10)

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 15, 2014, 10:02:35 AM
    St John Fisher's win over Nazareth last night puts them right back in the thick of the playoff race. Elmira seems to be the key to the seedings and berths in the conference tournament. They play Nazareth, Stevens, and Hartwick who are all fighting for spots in the playoffs.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 15, 2014, 06:04:31 PM
    Fisher finishes its Empire 8 schedule with a 105-83 win at Alfred today to improve to 9-5 in E8 play. Saxons drop to 8-4, with games at Nazareth (8-4 with convincing win at Elmira today) Tuesday and at home with Ithaca Feb. 22.

    Nazareth finishes its E8 play Friday, Feb. 21 at Utica.

    Meanwhile, Stevens (9-3) at Hartwick (8-4) Tuesday and at home with Elmira (4-7) Feb. 21.

    In weird scheduling, Hartwick must travel to Houghton for a Friday night game Feb. 21, then take the 3.5 hour bus ride home to Oneonta to host Elmira on Feb. 22 in a game that was moved from 2 to 3 p.m. tipoff.

    All told, Pep has no clue what's going to happen in the Empire 8....there are five viable teams fighting for four available spots for the E8 Tournament....just hoping the Saxons can regroup and keep fighting.

    On Saxon Warriors!


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 16, 2014, 01:45:37 AM
    Here's a case of almost Deja Vu happening all over again.

    On January 28th Ithaca beat Elmira 69-68 in Elmira

    Last night Elmira beat Ithaca 69-68 in Ithaca.

    Wonder what the odds are that 2 teams will split their season series by the same identical score?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 16, 2014, 10:37:52 AM
    5 teams fighting for 4 spots!
    Fisher is playing there best Basketball of the season right now. They played exceptional defense friday night against a very good offensive team Nazareth. I wouldn't  want to play them right now in the conference tourney. Fisher did what they had to do this weekend. Interested to see how everything plays out. If Hartwick wins Tuesday they will have the Tiebreaker over Stevens but Stevens will have the tiebreaker over Naz. Interesting. Wonder what the league will look like if Hartwick and Naz win tuesday.
    This maybe the closest the E8 race has ever been... So many Possible scenarios with seedings.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 16, 2014, 04:58:13 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on February 16, 2014, 10:37:52 AM
    5 teams fighting for 4 spots!
    Fisher is playing there best Basketball of the season right now. They played exceptional defense friday night against a very good offensive team Nazareth. I would want to play them right now in the conference tourney. Fisher did what they had to do this weekend. Interested to see how everything plays out. If Hartwick wins Tuesday they will have the Tiebreaker over Stevens but Stevens will have the tiebreaker over Naz. Interesting. Wonder what the league will look like if Hartwick and Naz win tuesday.
    This maybe the closest the E8 race has ever been... So many Possible scenarios with seedings.

    So Derrick,
    I'm not sure what you mean here. You're talking about how good Fisher is playing right now, their best basketball of the season... yet you would want to play them in the conference tournament? Or did you mean you wouldn't want to play them right now? ???
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 16, 2014, 07:40:40 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on February 16, 2014, 10:37:52 AM
    5 teams fighting for 4 spots!
    Fisher is playing there best Basketball of the season right now. They played exceptional defense friday night against a very good offensive team Nazareth. I would want to play them right now in the conference tourney. Fisher did what they had to do this weekend. Interested to see how everything plays out. If Hartwick wins Tuesday they will have the Tiebreaker over Stevens but Stevens will have the tiebreaker over Naz. Interesting. Wonder what the league will look like if Hartwick and Naz win tuesday.
    This maybe the closest the E8 race has ever been... So many Possible scenarios with seedings.

    It's going to be a fun but gut wrenching week in the E8. Tuesday will see the top 4 teams play each other for seeding purposes. Fisher will be on the outside looking in waiting for someone to let them in the back door.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 16, 2014, 09:35:01 PM
    I meant wouldnt Magicman my apologies.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 17, 2014, 12:06:50 PM
    Pep is trying to figure out how the Saxons can make the Empire 8 Tournament...worst case scenario is AU drops games at Nazareth and collapses against Ithaca and finishes 8-6 in the league for fifth place. Despite the Saxons being picked to finish last in the E8 this year, at this stage in the game, that would be disappointing.

    Here is the tiebreaker procedures as copied and pasted from the E8 website:

    The conference champion shall be decided by a four-team conference tournament hosted by the highest seed.

    Teams shall be seeded No.1 through No.4 for the tournament based on the final Empire 8 record.
    In case of a tie for any finish in the regular season standings, the following tie-breaking procedure shall be followed in order to seed teams:

        a. Head-to-head record
        b. Best record vs. subsequent finishers in descending order beginning with the 1st place team
        c. Road record vs. conference opponents
        d. NCAA strength of schedule index within region


    Assuming that those in contention (Stevens, Hartwick, Nazareth, Alfred) handle those that are not (Elmira, Utica and Ithaca)....which in the E8 is not always a safe bet, but, let's say the Saxons falter at Naz but beat Ithaca and finish 9-5.

    Should Stevens beat Hartwick and Elmira, the Ducks finish 11-3 and host the tourney as #1 seed.
    Nazareth would be #2 seed at 10-4, leaving Hartwick (9-5), AU (9-5) and Fisher (9-5) all tied for third.
    Of the three at 9-5, in head-to-head play, Hartwick went 3-1, AU 2-2, Fisher 1-3, so Hartwick would be the #3 seed.
    Of the two remaining at 9-5, AU and Fisher split head-to-head. AU and Fisher went 1-1 against Stevens, both went 1-1 with Naz, AU was 1-1 with Hartwick while Fisher was 0-2, so AU would get the #4 seed.

    Should Hartwick beat Stevens and finish 10-4, Stevens finishes 10-4 and Nazareth finishes 10-4 with Alfred 9-5 and Fisher at 9-5:
    Stevens would earn the #1 seed based on its 3-1 record against Naz and Hartwick.
    Nazareth would be #2 seed based on its 2-0 sweep of Hartwick.
    Hartwick would be the #3 seed.
    AU and Fisher split in head-to-head. Both split with Stevens. Both split with Nazareth. AU split with Hartwick, while Fisher went 0-2. AU would be the #4 seed.

    Okay, that's Pep's take, from a fairly conservative position of the Saxons splitting their last two games. Obviously, the Saxons take care of business at Nazareth (a tall order) and Ithaca, they finish 10-4 and are in. Now, please discuss....and offer corrections to Pep's interpretation of the tiebreaker...

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 18, 2014, 03:45:23 PM
    Pep just can't keep up with all the discussion here about the Empire 8 Conference seedings.  ???
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 19, 2014, 11:37:05 AM
    Stevens 2-2 against Naz and Hartwick... Hartwick is the #1 seed right now because they beat Fisher twice and Naz and Stevens split with fisher... Top 3 all went 1-1 against alfred.. Therefore The next team tiebreaker would be against Fisher
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 19, 2014, 04:17:54 PM
    The Regional Rankings for Week 2 have been released and there were a few changes in the East Region.

    Here's the new rankings: Same 6 teams as last week but every position has changed except #1.

    East - NCAA data sheet
    1 Brockport State 19-2 20-2
    2 Plattsburgh State 18-4 18-4
    3 Geneseo State 17-4 18-4
    4 Hobart 18-6 18-6
    5 Stevens 14-7 16-7
    6 New York University 15-7 15-7


    Here's last week's rankings.

    East - NCAA data sheet
    1 Brockport State 16-2 17-2
    2 Geneseo State 15-3 16-3
    3 Plattsburgh State 16-4 16-4
    4 NYU 15-5 15-5
    5 Hobart 17-5 17-5
    6 Stevens 14-7 15-7

    Here's the link to all of the regions:

    http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 19, 2014, 05:48:04 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on February 19, 2014, 11:37:05 AM
    Stevens 2-2 against Naz and Hartwick... Hartwick is the #1 seed right now because they beat Fisher twice and Naz and Stevens split with fisher... Top 3 all went 1-1 against alfred.. Therefore The next team tiebreaker would be against Fisher

    If Naz, Stevens and Hartwick all take care of business, they'd all finish 10-4 in conference play and they all finished 2-2 against each other. You are correct, all 3 went 1-1 against AU....and Hartwick swept Fisher so you're right, Hawks would be #1 seed.

    Is there a conference in the land with more parity this year than the Empire 8?

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 19, 2014, 06:32:03 PM
    It's been said all year that the E8 was up for grabs and heading into the final week, that saying can't be any more true. Three teams tied for first; two teams tied for the last spot and only being 1 game out of the lead. Elmira holds the key to the E8 tournament with games upcoming vs Hartwick and Stevens. Mostly every scenario seems to have those two as the eventual host of the tournament except for both of them losing to Elmira and Nazareth winning at Utica. The way the season has unfolded thus far,  I wouldn't be surprised to see them host. It also would be surprising and unfortunate to see a team like Alfred have such a great start to their season just to end it a bad note and slip out of the top 4.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 19, 2014, 09:33:37 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on February 19, 2014, 06:32:03 PM
    It's been said all year that the E8 was up for grabs and heading into the final week, that saying can't be any more true. Three teams tied for first; two teams tied for the last spot and only being 1 game out of the lead. Elmira holds the key to the E8 tournament with games upcoming vs Hartwick and Stevens. Mostly every scenario seems to have those two as the eventual host of the tournament except for both of them losing to Elmira and Nazareth winning at Utica. The way the season has unfolded thus far,  I wouldn't be surprised to see them host. It also would be surprising and unfortunate to see a team like Alfred have such a great start to their season just to end it a bad note and slip out of the top 4.

    Should Alfred win against Ithaca Saturday, Pep believes the Saxons have the tiebreaker over St. John Fisher, based on their records against the top three. AU split with Fisher. AU split with Stevens, Hartwick and Naz, a 3-3 record against the first place teams. Fisher split with Stevens and Naz but lost twice to Hartwick, giving them a 2-4 record against the first place teams. Is that how you see it?

    So for the Saxons, win and you're in. Fisher players are suddenly bigtime Bomber fans!

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 19, 2014, 09:58:02 PM
    Alfred's sweep of Hartwick should get them the nod in a tiebreaker with Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 20, 2014, 09:17:56 AM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on February 19, 2014, 09:58:02 PM
    Alfred's sweep of Hartwick should get them the nod in a tiebreaker with Fisher.

    Alfred split with Hartwick. Fisher was swept.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 20, 2014, 09:45:50 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 20, 2014, 09:17:56 AM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on February 19, 2014, 09:58:02 PM
    Alfred's sweep of Hartwick should get them the nod in a tiebreaker with Fisher.

    Alfred split with Hartwick. Fisher was swept.


    I knew that and botched my entire statement. I meant that Aflred's win over Hartwick should get them the nod in a tiebreaker with Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 20, 2014, 03:53:17 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on February 20, 2014, 09:45:50 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 20, 2014, 09:17:56 AM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on February 19, 2014, 09:58:02 PM
    Alfred's sweep of Hartwick should get them the nod in a tiebreaker with Fisher.

    Alfred split with Hartwick. Fisher was swept.


    I knew that and botched my entire statement. I meant that Aflred's win over Hartwick should get them the nod in a tiebreaker with Fisher.

    Pep knew that's what you meant...just pleased the Saxons are part of the parity this year!

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: 7express on February 20, 2014, 10:53:31 PM
    It's highly unlikely to happen, but I noticed there's still a possibility for a 5 way tie for first between SJF, Naz, Wick, Stevens, and Alfred.  Which team would host should that tiebreaker occur and which team would be on the outside looking in should that happen??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 21, 2014, 11:24:04 AM
    Its funny you say that because when I was breaking down everything I discovered that possibility... and I honestly don't know what would happen
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 21, 2014, 01:39:03 PM
    As unpredictable as the E8 has been this year, its hard to see the top tier teams losing today and tomorrow. All but Nazareth are at home and facing bottom feeders. Elmira did beat Hartwick earlier in the year but the game is in Oneonta this time and I can't see Hartwick losing to them again.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 21, 2014, 03:49:48 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on February 21, 2014, 01:39:03 PM
    As unpredictable as the E8 has been this year, its hard to see the top tier teams losing today and tomorrow. All but Nazareth are at home and facing bottom feeders. Elmira did beat Hartwick earlier in the year but the game is in Oneonta this time and I can't see Hartwick losing to them again.

    I have to agree with that NYHOOPS. I think Hartwick, Stevens and Nazareth all win and finish 10-4. Alfred wins against the Bombers on Saturday to claim the 4th playoff spot. Fisher is the odd man out.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 21, 2014, 11:51:41 PM
    So we have some finals:

    Stevens defeats Elmira 74-68.

    Ducks were down by 7 points at 67-60 with 3 minutes to play and they end the game on a 14-1 run to pull out the win. The clinch a playoff spot and will claim the top seed if Hartwick loses to Elmira on Saturday afternoon.

    Nazareth downs Utica 98-82.

    Naz clinches a playoff spot but the Golden Flyers cannot claim the top seed since Stevens won.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 22, 2014, 11:32:28 PM
    Saxons earn their first-ever berth in the Empire 8 Conference Tournament with a 104-80 win over Ithaca this afternoon at McLane Center.
    Saxons finish 9-5 in conference play, edge St. John Fisher on the tiebreaker to earn the #4 seed and will play #1 seed Hartwick in Oneonta at 8 p.m. Friday, Feb. 28. #2 Stevens faces #3 Nazareth at 6 p.m. Friday, Feb. 28 at Hartwick. Winners meet for the NCAA berth on Saturday, March 1, also at Hartwick.

    Congratulations to Coach Dale Wellman and the 21 Saxons for a successful regular season (18-7, 9-5) and a first-ever E8 Tourney berth.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 23, 2014, 11:09:23 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 22, 2014, 11:32:28 PM
    Saxons earn their first-ever berth in the Empire 8 Conference Tournament with a 104-80 win over Ithaca this afternoon at McLane Center.
    Saxons finish 9-5 in conference play, edge St. John Fisher on the tiebreaker to earn the #4 seed and will play #1 seed Hartwick in Oneonta at 8 p.m. Friday, Feb. 28. #2 Stevens faces #3 Nazareth at 6 p.m. Friday, Feb. 28 at Hartwick. Winners meet for the NCAA berth on Saturday, March 1, also at Hartwick.

    Congratulations to Coach Dale Wellman and the 21 Saxons for a successful regular season (18-7, 9-5) and a first-ever E8 Tourney berth.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Congratulations  Pep, I'm happy for you. Hope the Saxons can do some further damage.   On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 23, 2014, 04:55:09 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 23, 2014, 11:09:23 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 22, 2014, 11:32:28 PM
    Saxons earn their first-ever berth in the Empire 8 Conference Tournament with a 104-80 win over Ithaca this afternoon at McLane Center.
    Saxons finish 9-5 in conference play, edge St. John Fisher on the tiebreaker to earn the #4 seed and will play #1 seed Hartwick in Oneonta at 8 p.m. Friday, Feb. 28. #2 Stevens faces #3 Nazareth at 6 p.m. Friday, Feb. 28 at Hartwick. Winners meet for the NCAA berth on Saturday, March 1, also at Hartwick.

    Congratulations to Coach Dale Wellman and the 21 Saxons for a successful regular season (18-7, 9-5) and a first-ever E8 Tourney berth.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Congratulations  Pep, I'm happy for you. Hope the Saxons can do some further damage.   On Saxon Warriors!

    ...Thanks, magicman...+K...this team brought the old-time AU hoop fans out of the hills, was a fun team to watch this season.

    Yesterday's highlight was the halftime tomfoolery. This year, they've had a couple of students' names drawn from a list of contestant wannabes for a shoot-out for prizes at Fox's Pizza. In a hilarious spin, yesterday they had the AU Conditioning Coach's two young daughters race each other. First, they had to put on AU hoop shirt and shorts and sneakers, dressing at mid court, then attempted to be the first to make a basket, struggling to keep the shorts on as they walked to their respective basket. It became apparent they couldn't throw it up that high so they each had someone assist, meanwhile, trying to keep their uniform together. Finally, one of them got the ball in the basket and the attentive crowd roared its approval.

    Best of luck to your Plattsburgh Cardinals in the SUNYAC Tourney at Brockport!

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 24, 2014, 06:38:34 AM
    Thanks for the good luck wishes Pep.

    Win or lose I think my Cardinals will get into the NCAA's. Getting 21 wins in the regular season is not easy to do (only the 2nd time in our school history that has happened), and should be good enough to merit an at large bid, but it's nice to have that automatic bid, as the tournament champion, in hand. Having that on the resume also helps to get a home game or host a pod of 4 teams. At this time of year, getting to watch your team on their home court just once more, is icing on the cake. I'd like it to be thick, creamy and vanilla. ;D

    Plus K back at you and to all on this page   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 24, 2014, 08:35:23 AM
    Congrats to AUPep and the Saxons. It was said before the season started that Alfred would be a scary team to play but I don't think any of us thought Alfred would make their way into the conference tournament. They face Hartwick in the semis but they already have a win over the Hawks so you know they will be a confident bunch going into that game. Alfred is the only team in the conference tourney that hasn't been swept in the season series by any team still left.

    The other semifinal is Nazareth and Stevens. Stevens took both games in the regular season but as the saying goes, its hard to beat a team three times in one season. These are both two physical teams so you have to think the third installment is going to be a battle.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 24, 2014, 10:50:05 AM
    This E8 tourney is wide open. Anybody can win, But I do firmly believe the Golden Flyers will win the E8 Tournament!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on February 24, 2014, 11:00:46 AM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on February 24, 2014, 10:50:05 AM
    This E8 tourney is wide open. Anybody can win, But I do firmly believe the Golden Flyers will win the E8 Tournament!

    My early predictions are if Naz gets by Stevens, they will beat the winner of the other semfinal. If Hartwick and Stevens win, Hartwick will take it home. If Alfred and Stevens win, Stevens will win the championship. Is that clear enough?  ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 24, 2014, 12:39:33 PM
    Naz guys are hungry for a championship! 3 starters for Naz have been to E8 championship but lost to Ithaca two years ago. Would hate to see Brad Ford, Scott Hayford, Jack Giles go out without an E8 championship. These guys have been great in Coach Brodericks first years at Naz! Coach B will have the guys ready to play as usual against Stevens. I don't see Naz losing Friday. I would be Surprised if Naz loses Friday! I think Whoever wins the 2,3 game will win the Championship Saturday!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: 7express on February 24, 2014, 03:17:42 PM
    As a neutral observer I'll take Naz over Hartwick in the finals.

    Think Naz can get by Stevens, difficult to beat a good team 3 times in 1 season.  Alfred's had a great year and I know they just won @ Hartwick, but I think Hartwick gets by close at home.  Naz over Wick by 5 in the finals.  Really any of these 4 teams can win though.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 24, 2014, 07:17:10 PM
    Quote from: 7express on February 24, 2014, 03:17:42 PM
    As a neutral observer I'll take Naz over Hartwick in the finals.

    Think Naz can get by Stevens, difficult to beat a good team 3 times in 1 season.  Alfred's had a great year and I know they just won @ Hartwick, but I think Hartwick gets by close at home.  Naz over Wick by 5 in the finals.  Really any of these 4 teams can win though.

    Pep is just happy for the Saxons to be in the mix. Alfred beat Hartwick at McLane Center 105-98 Saturday afternoon, Feb. 8, after beating Stevens the night before, 100-88.

    Alfred lost at Hartwick in OT, 131-124 on Jan. 17, and the next day lost at Stevens, 102-85.

    As was previously stated, the E8 Tourney is up for grabs with no clear favorite. Pep is liking the fact the Saxons seem to match up well with Hartwick and if AU is hot, the Hawks will have their hands full even at home.

    Should the Saxons outshoot the Hawks, Pep likes the fact that AU would then be on a neutral court with the #2 v. #3 winner. AU beat both teams at home, while losing at both Naz and Stevens.

    Pep is toying with the idea of making a trip to Oneonta Friday afternoon...

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 24, 2014, 09:36:52 PM
    Hey Pep, If you make the Trip to Hartwick Friday night you will see me in a bright Purple coat. feel free to chat with me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 24, 2014, 10:27:36 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on February 24, 2014, 09:36:52 PM
    Hey Pep, If you make the Trip to Hartwick Friday night you will see me in a bright Purple coat. feel free to chat with me.

    If Pep makes the trip, he'll certainly be out and about chatting with most everyone wearing purple.  ;)

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 28, 2014, 10:22:14 PM
    Nazareth defeats Stevens 71-60.


    Hartwick defeats Alfred 90-85.


    Nazareth at Hartwick tomorrow for the championship at 3:00 PM.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on March 02, 2014, 08:28:21 AM
    Hartwick beats Nazareth in the Empire 8 final in a game they controlled throughout. One bid league for the E8 this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on March 04, 2014, 04:37:49 PM
    Hartwick has a difficult first round matchup playing at SUNY Purchase. Purchase has all upperclassmen in their starting lineup and has great size all across the board highlighted by a 7'0 behemoth manning the middle. Hartwick will need a huge performance from Jared Suderley to keep pace.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: 7express on March 04, 2014, 09:12:47 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on March 04, 2014, 04:37:49 PM
    Hartwick has a difficult first round matchup playing at SUNY Purchase. Purchase has all upperclassmen in their starting lineup and has great size all across the board highlighted by a 7'0 behemoth manning the middle. Hartwick will need a huge performance from Jared Suderley to keep pace.

    Can't comment much on Purchase.  Saw them once this year....in November the second day of the season @ Eastern.  Their 7 foot guy Joel Neri only started playing basketball like 2 or 3 years ago.  Andre Nixon is the guard to keep an eye on.  Outside of Mount St. Mary & Purchase, the Skyline was pretty dreadful, so even though they have a really good record, they've only really beaten Eastern Connecticut & Brockport in the quality wins department.  Lost a close game @ Albertus, and beat Mitchell by 14 are their only other 2 games they've played against tournament teams, and have 3 wins by an average of 13.3 points against 21-6 Mount St. Mary.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: NYHOOPS8 on March 05, 2014, 08:41:33 AM
    Quote from: 7express on March 04, 2014, 09:12:47 PM
    Quote from: NYHOOPS8 on March 04, 2014, 04:37:49 PM
    Hartwick has a difficult first round matchup playing at SUNY Purchase. Purchase has all upperclassmen in their starting lineup and has great size all across the board highlighted by a 7'0 behemoth manning the middle. Hartwick will need a huge performance from Jared Suderley to keep pace.

    Can't comment much on Purchase.  Saw them once this year....in November the second day of the season @ Eastern.  Their 7 foot guy Joel Neri only started playing basketball like 2 or 3 years ago.  Andre Nixon is the guard to keep an eye on.  Outside of Mount St. Mary & Purchase, the Skyline was pretty dreadful, so even though they have a really good record, they've only really beaten Eastern Connecticut & Brockport in the quality wins department.  Lost a close game @ Albertus, and beat Mitchell by 14 are their only other 2 games they've played against tournament teams, and have 3 wins by an average of 13.3 points against 21-6 Mount St. Mary.

    I saw Purchase a few times last year so I'm familiar with both Nixon and Neri. One thing I did not notice until this morning was that these two teams faced each other last year to start the season. Purchase won that game that had Neri seemingly to be a difference maker. Hartwick will need to figure out a way to combat Purchase's size.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on March 10, 2014, 12:04:40 PM
    If everyone could please take some time to vote for Brad Ford Nazareth for the D3 All star Game here is the link http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2014/03/nabc-all-star-voting
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 17, 2014, 11:53:40 AM
    Here is the D3hoops All East Region Team


    Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools.

    Player of the Year: John Ivy, Sr., Brockport State
    Coach of the Year: Joe Smith, Morrisville State
    Rookie of the Year: Joey Lufkin, G, Hartwick

    First team     
    Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
    G Jordan Prior Morrisville State Sr. Cortland, N.Y.
    G John Ivy Brockport State Sr. Rochester, N.Y.
    F Brad Ford Nazareth Sr. Victor, N.Y.
    F Richie Bonney Hobart Sr. Norwich, N.Y.
    F Jared Suderley Hartwick Sr. Newport, N.Y.


    Second team     
    Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
    G Johnny Mrlik Vassar So. San Francisco, Calif.
    G John Coleman Clarkson Jr. Potsdam, N.Y.
    F Gordon Lyons Geneseo State Jr. Amherst, N.Y.
    F Kevin McMahon Cortland State Sr. Hoosick Falls, N.Y.
    F Evan Kupferberg New York University So. Boca Raton, Fla.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 19, 2014, 06:25:11 AM
    National Association of Basketball Coaches Announces the 2014 NABC Division III All-District Teams and Coaches

    *District Player of the Year

    East Region

    First Team                                                                                                 Second Team

    Richie Bonney, Hobart                                                                                John Coleman, Clarkson
    Brad Ford, Nazareth                                                                                   Joe Gibbons, Hobart
    John Ivy, SUNY Brockport*                                                                     Evan Kupferberg, New York University
    Gordon Lyons, SUNY Geneseo                                                                     Kevin McMahon, SUNY Cortland
    Jordan Prior, SUNY Morrisville                                                                     Justin Mitchell, Buffalo State
    Jared Suderley, Hartwick

    Coach of the Year: Greg Dunne, SUNY Brockport

    Here's the link to the complete list of All District Teams:
    http://www.nabc.org/awards/all_district/2014_NABC_Division_III_All-District_Teams_and_Coaches.pdf     

    A special congratulations to Richie Bonney  from Hobart who was chosen on March 17th as the 2014 Jostens Award Winner.
    The Jostens Trophy is emblematic of the top overall student-athlete in Division III basketball.

    Here's the link to the story:
    http://d3hoops.com/notables/2014/03/fischer-bonney-win-jostens-trophy 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 21, 2014, 05:45:29 AM
    The honors continue for some of our East Region players on Thursday, as the NABC released their All American Teams.

    Brockport State's John Ivy is named to the 2014 NABC Coaches Division All America First Team.

    Richie Bonney of Hobart is named to the All America Second Team.

    Jared Suderley of Hartwick is named to the All America Third Team.

    Congratulations on the latest post season honors these 3 players have racked up.

    Here's the complete list of NABC All Americans:



    2014 NABC COACHES' DIVISION III ALL-AMERICA FIRST TEAM
    John Ivy, SUNY Brockport, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Rochester, N.Y.
    Javae King-Gilchrist, William Paterson, 6-2, Senior, Guard, Teaneck, N.J.
    Tyler Peters, Wheaton, 6-4,Senior, Guard, Medina, Ohio
    Doug Thorpe, Wooster, 5-9, Senior, Guard, Columbus, Ohio
    Tyler Tillema, UW Stevens Point, 6-3, Senior, Guard, Randolph, Wis.
    Aaron Toomey, Amherst, 6-1,Senior, Guard, Greensboro, N.C.
    Aaron Walton-Moss, Cabrini, 6-1 Junior, Guard, Camden, N.J.
    DJ Woodmore, Virginia Wesleyan, 6-3, Senior, Guard, Virginia Beach, Va.


    2014 NABC COACHES' DIVISION III ALL-AMERICA SECOND TEAM
    Richie Bonney, Hobart, 6-6, Senior, Forward, Norwich, N.Y.
    Brandon Gries, St. Norbert, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Kiel, Wis.
    Malcolm Heard II, Wilmington, 6-5, Senior, Forward, Wilmington, Ohio
    Dan Kornbaum, Augsburg, 6-9, Senior, Post, Little Falls, Minn.
    Andre Nixon, SUNY Purchase, 6-3, Senior, Guard, Harlem, N.Y.
    Brian Parker, Alvernia, 6-4, Senior, Forward, Chichester, Pa.
    Kyle Schleigh, UT Dallas, 6-6, Senior, Forward, Houston, Texas
    Darius Watson, Albertus Magnus, 6-5, Senior, Guard/Forward, New Britain, Conn.


    2014 NABC COACHES' DIVISION III ALL-AMERICA THIRD TEAM
    Mike Garrow, Eastern Connecticut,6-4, Senior, Forward, Terryville, Conn.
    Adam Honig, Dickinson, 6-1 Senior, Guard, Chappaqua, N.Y.
    Chris Klimek, Washington U-St. Louis, 6-5, Senior, Forward, Inverness, Ill.
    Dustin McConnell, Whitworth, 5-11, Senior, Guard, Clarkston, Wash.
    Dillon Stith, St. Vincent, 6-5, Senior, Forward, Bedford, Va.
    Jared Suderley, Hartwick, 6-6, Senior, Forward, Newport, N.Y.
    Larry Thomas, Birmingham Southern, 6-1, Junior, Guard, Atlanta, Ga.
    Michael Woods, York (NY), 6-3, Senior, Guard, Brooklyn
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 23, 2014, 05:35:20 AM
    D3hoops has released their All America Teams.

    Jared Suderley from Hartwick is named to the 1st Team

    The 2014 D3hoops.com All-America team

    Player of the Year: G Aaron Toomey, Sr., Amherst
    Rookie of the Year: F Duncan Robinson, Fr., Williams
    Coach of the Year: Pat Miller, UW-Whitewater

    First team       
    Pos Player School Year Hometown
    G Aaron Toomey Amherst Sr. Greensboro, N.C.
    G Tyler Tillema UW-Stevens Point Sr. Randolph, Wis.
    G Aaron Walton-Moss Cabrini  Jr. Camden, N.J.
    F Jared Suderley Hartwick Sr. Newport, N.Y.
    C Michael Mayer Williams Sr. Durham, N.C.

    Second team       
    Pos Player School Year Hometown
    G DJ Woodmore Virginia Wesleyan Sr. Virginia Beach, Va.
    G John Ivy Brockport State Sr. Rochester, N.Y.
    F Jake Davis Emory  Sr.  Cincinnati, Ohio
    F Andrew Ziemnik Illinois Wesleyan Sr. Oswego, Ill.
    C Dan Kornbaum Augsburg Sr. Little Falls, Minn.

    Third team       
    Pos Player School Year Hometown
    G Xavier Brown Wooster Jr. Bowling Green, Ohio
    G Tyler Peters Wheaton (Ill.) Sr. Medina, Ohio
    F Kyle Schleigh Texas-Dallas  Sr.  Houston, Texas
    F Richie Bonney Hobart Sr. Norwich, N.Y.
    C David Langan Wesley Sr. Sayreville, N.J.

    Fourth team       
    Pos Player School Year Hometown
    G Andre Nixon SUNY-Purchase Sr. Harlem, N.Y.
    G Trevor Hass UW-Stevens Point Sr. New London, Wis.
    G Darius Watson Albertus Magnus  Sr.  New Britain, Conn.
    F Duncan Robinson Williams Fr. New Castle, N.H.
    F Malcolm Heard II Wilmington Sr. Wilmington, Ohio

    Honorable mention       
    Pos Player School Year Hometown
    G Adam Honig Dickinson Sr. Chappaqua, N.Y.
    G Julian Strickland Rose-Hulman Sr. Indianapolis, Ind.
    G Brandon Gries St. Norbert  Sr.  Kiel, Wis.
    G KJ Evans UW-Whitewater Jr. Beloit, Wis.
    F Chris Klimek Washington U. Sr. Inverness, Ill.

    Congratulations to all the award winners as so many outstanding players on this list wrap up their college careers. They will be missed.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on March 31, 2014, 01:18:27 PM
    Another Great season of Division 3 hoops! As a young kid i feel very happy that i am around these coaches and players who dedicate winter after winter to there teams! I love how Division 3 is a small community like atmosphere especially in the East Region. Was hoping Nazareth would be in the NCAAS and was Heartbroken that these seniors never won an Empire 8 championship or clinched a berth in the NCAA Tournament. Great years are coming with Coach Broderick at the helm.

    Enjoyed chatting with everyone on the boards again this year!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on April 13, 2014, 04:39:54 PM
    In the news that slipped by me recently.

    Greg Dunne from Brockport State was recently named as the winner of the  2014 Glenn Robinson Award which is presented annually to the National Coach of the Year. There were 12 finalists nominated from Division III schools and Greg was chosen as the winner and presented the award on April 4th during the Division I Final Four competition in Dallas Texas.

    Nice to see a coach from the East Region grab that honor. Congratulations Coach Dunne  on a great season.

    Here's a link to the complete write up: http://www.gobrockport.com/news/2014/3/31/MBB_0331140308.aspx
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on July 02, 2014, 08:04:27 PM
    http://coachrejbasketball.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/my-top-10-rules-to-landing-that-elusive-coaching-gig/ Coach Mike Rejniak new blog. Very insightful about coaching and D3Hoops! Take a Look!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on September 29, 2014, 10:30:05 PM
    Chris Sullivan, the assistant coach for Fisher, was on the halftime show for the football team this past weekend and mentioned that the outlook for Fisher is bright for this coming season. Bringing back all but one player, and apparently there are "several recruits that will compete for time, and see the floor".

    I have no other information, but it got me excited for basketball to start. Would love to see Fisher get back to that elite level they had several years back, but we will have to wait and see.

    Can't wait!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 31, 2014, 03:28:00 PM
    Fisher has updated their basketball roster for the coming season. 5 new freshman, and what looks like an AU transfer (Pep? - Curtis Marshall). Coach Kornaker was on the halftime show of the Fisher football game this past week and mentioned three names as incoming freshman who may see a lot of time. Jake Hicks (6'5 Guard from Shenendehowa), Tyler English (6'4 Guard from St. Mary's/Lockport), and Tyler Farrell (6'3 Forward from Hilton).

    I don't know much about any of them, but if they all see significant time Fisher could have some good size guards to go with Chaz Lott and Keegan Ryan. Those two are the anchors of this years team I am sure, but Stefan Bock and Kindard will play a role as well. I have heard a few interviews with the coaching staff and they all seem to be optimistic about this team, so it should be interesting.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on October 31, 2014, 08:24:27 PM
    I think Fisher is the preseason favorite to win the E8 this year. The Ryan kid should improve considerably over last year and if he stays healthy the Cardinals will be team to beat...on paper anyway. ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 04, 2014, 09:45:47 PM
    Quote from: magicman on October 31, 2014, 08:24:27 PM
    I think Fisher is the preseason favorite to win the E8 this year. The Ryan kid should improve considerably over last year and if he stays healthy the Cardinals will be team to beat...on paper anyway. ;)

    Ditto to what the "Magic 1" said ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 15, 2014, 09:09:25 PM
    Quote from: magicman on October 31, 2014, 08:24:27 PM
    I think Fisher is the preseason favorite to win the E8 this year. The Ryan kid should improve considerably over last year and if he stays healthy the Cardinals will be team to beat...on paper anyway. ;)

    Apparently the E8 Coaches agree with you, as they have Fisher #1 in the pre-season poll. Stevens in at 2nd.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 18, 2014, 12:03:33 PM
    The D3hoops season has kicked off! Naz lost a tough one to Rochester in a game they could have easily stolen at the end and were up by 3 with a minute and a half left. Alfred played great and beat ESF by a large margin. Stevens lost to Brooklyn by 15. Interesting that Evan Klimchak isn't on the Stevens roster, that could really hurt the guard play for Stevens. Hartwick beat Farmingdale State by 17 and came back to Laker Hall the next night and lost an ugly came to Oswego State. Both teams didn't shoot well in that game. Elmira will be a surprise team in this league after a big win at Oswego and watching them against Farmingdale State. I think like last year they will surprise some teams at home and get better throughout the year. Ithaca lost to Skidmore in both teams season opener.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 18, 2014, 01:53:56 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 18, 2014, 12:03:33 PM
    The D3hoops season has kicked off! Naz lost a tough one to Rochester in a game they could have easily stolen at the end and were up by 3 with a minute and a half left. Alfred played great and beat ESF by a large margin. Stevens lost to Brooklyn by 15. Interesting that Evan Klimchak isn't on the Stevens roster, that could really hurt the guard play for Stevens. Hartwick beat Farmingdale State by 17 and came back to Laker Hall the next night and lost an ugly came to Oswego State. Both teams didn't shoot well in that game. I Elmira will be a surprise team in this league after a big win at Oswego and watching them against Farmingdale State. I think like last year they will be surprise some team at home and get better throughout the year. Ithaca lost to Skidmore in both teams season opener.

    Not a huge fan of Fisher starting the season so late this year (11/25). I would have liked to see a game around now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 20, 2014, 09:41:50 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 31, 2014, 03:28:00 PM
    Fisher has updated their basketball roster for the coming season. 5 new freshman, and what looks like an AU transfer (Pep? - Curtis Marshall). Coach Kornaker was on the halftime show of the Fisher football game this past week and mentioned three names as incoming freshman who may see a lot of time. Jake Hicks (6'5 Guard from Shenendehowa), Tyler English (6'4 Guard from St. Mary's/Lockport), and Tyler Farrell (6'3 Forward from Hilton).

    I don't know much about any of them, but if they all see significant time Fisher could have some good size guards to go with Chaz Lott and Keegan Ryan. Those two are the anchors of this years team I am sure, but Stefan Bock and Kindard will play a role as well. I have heard a few interviews with the coaching staff and they all seem to be optimistic about this team, so it should be interesting.

    Name doesn't ring a bell and Pep got well acquainted with the squad last year. Checked rosters from earlier seasons and the name didn't appear. Perhaps a transfer from Alfred State, although last year's Pioneer roster did not include said Curtis Marshall, who perhaps transferred to Fisher from Texas Tech....?!? Pep is thinking y'all might want to check on his eligibility.  ;D

    http://www.texastech.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/marshall_curtis00.html


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 20, 2014, 09:47:06 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 15, 2014, 09:09:25 PM
    Quote from: magicman on October 31, 2014, 08:24:27 PM
    I think Fisher is the preseason favorite to win the E8 this year. The Ryan kid should improve considerably over last year and if he stays healthy the Cardinals will be team to beat...on paper anyway. ;)

    Apparently the E8 Coaches agree with you, as they have Fisher #1 in the pre-season poll. Stevens in at 2nd.

    Here's the link:

    http://www.empire8.com/news/2014/11/13/MBB_1113144605.aspx?path=mbball

    For the Saxons....new coach and new digs....Galanis Family Arena:
    http://www.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?ID=9102

    Here's some video/recap/interviews of the Saxons' first game at the newly-transformed facility:
    http://www.gosaxons.com/news/2014/11/15/MBB_1115144814.aspx?path=mbball

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 25, 2014, 12:02:04 PM
    Fisher finally gets underway tonight against what looks like a pretty good Oneonta team. Should be a good early test. I am really interested to see the starting 5 for Fisher. I am sure that Lott and Ryan will be in there, but with the incoming freshman looking to get some time I am interested to see how Coach Kornaker puts them together.

    Tonight should give a pretty good idea of what Fisher has this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 25, 2014, 09:00:39 PM
    A strong opening statement for Fisher as they take care of SUNY Oneonta 83-72. Fisher held a double digit lead for most of the game (especially the 2nd half) but Oneonta did cut the lead down to under 5 at one point. Fisher looked good. Medaille up next for the Cards on Saturday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 30, 2014, 03:34:12 PM
    A good win for Nazareth against Keystone last night. A bit surprised Fisher lost to Medaille but a close game. The Wendys Classic looks to be as interesting as ever this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 30, 2014, 06:34:29 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on November 25, 2014, 09:00:39 PM
    A strong opening statement for Fisher as they take care of SUNY Oneonta 83-72. Fisher held a double digit lead for most of the game (especially the 2nd half) but Oneonta did cut the lead down to under 5 at one point. Fisher looked good. Medaille up next for the Cards on Saturday.

    Good to see you venture over to the Basketball boards there!!!Q

    And yes, that was a good win over a Oneonta team that started out the season beating Williams.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 01, 2014, 09:08:43 AM
    The good win over Oneonta was followed by a head scratcher loss to Medaille.
    Saw some of it online-was a battle and looked sloppy.
    Anybody have an idea why this was such a tough game?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 02, 2014, 03:57:14 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on December 01, 2014, 09:08:43 AM
    The good win over Oneonta was followed by a head scratcher loss to Medaille.
    Saw some of it online-was a battle and looked sloppy.
    Anybody have an idea why this was such a tough game?

    I saw medaille in the season opener at Buff State (a BENGALS win). They are  not the same Medaille team as in the past. Considerably scrappier team, IMHO,  than before and, I believe, more talented (at least at guard). Coleman is the pre-season pick for POY, but they have added some pieces. Most notably, former B uff State guard Johnny Belton, who leads the team in assists. He is averaging an assist for every 4 mins of play. I believe that once 1st yr coach Mike Blaine gets a handle on his team, that they can be competitive!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on December 14, 2014, 07:58:03 PM
    Empire 8 is struggling in the nonconference so far. Lots of teams with 2-3 losses so far. Interested to see what happens in this league as well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 02, 2015, 09:54:34 PM
    Alfred beats Stevens 65-58 on the road

    Elmira goes to Ithaca and wins 75-60

    Hartwick wins at home against Houghton 86-58

    Fisher beats Utica on the road 68-47

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 02, 2015, 10:44:53 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on January 02, 2015, 09:54:34 PM
    Alfred beats Stevens 65-58 on the road

    Elmira goes to Ithaca and wins 75-60

    Hartwick wins at home against Houghton 86-58

    Fisher beats Utica on the road 68-47

    Pep believes that's the first time AU has won in Hoboken, NJ. Saxons have no time to celebrate as they'll be at defending conference champ Hartwick tomorrow with a 5 p.m. tipoff. On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 04, 2015, 08:13:14 AM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on December 14, 2014, 07:58:03 PM
    Empire 8 is struggling in the nonconference so far. Lots of teams with 2-3 losses so far. Interested to see what happens in this league as well.

    dcahill,

    I thought for sure I'd see some kind of post from you trumpeting the fact that your Nazareth Golden Flyers took down John Carroll yesterday 85-80 in the Hilbert Tournament. Especially when they overcame a double digit deficit on several occasions.

    So what's your prediction? Will they knock the Hilbert Hawks from the ranks of the unbeaten? 

    You're up!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 04, 2015, 08:37:29 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 02, 2015, 10:44:53 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on January 02, 2015, 09:54:34 PM
    Alfred beats Stevens 65-58 on the road

    Elmira goes to Ithaca and wins 75-60

    Hartwick wins at home against Houghton 86-58

    Fisher beats Utica on the road 68-47


    Pep believes that's the first time AU has won in Hoboken, NJ. Saxons have no time to celebrate as they'll be at defending conference champ Hartwick tomorrow with a 5 p.m. tipoff. On Saxon Warriors!

    Pep
    It was a   " close but no cigar"   night for your Saxons over in Oneonta last night. When I saw they lost to Hartwick by the single point I had to see how the game ended. I then saw that the end result was not as close as it looked. However getting to within a point after being down 10 with 1:05 to play is pretty darned good!!!   I'm guessing you'll have your revenge on Jan. 30th when the Hawks make their trip over to Mayberry.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 04, 2015, 07:30:10 PM
    As I hoped Magicman. Naz has won the Hilbert Tournament against John Carroll yesterday and Hilbert today. Hopefully this is the start of a winning streak going into conference play!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 04, 2015, 07:33:31 PM
    Interested to see what happens in this league with conference play it looks like Naz is starting to get it together and Alfred, Hartwick and Fisher are all playing well.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 07, 2015, 04:55:02 PM
    Quote from: magicman on January 04, 2015, 08:37:29 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 02, 2015, 10:44:53 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on January 02, 2015, 09:54:34 PM
    Alfred beats Stevens 65-58 on the road

    Elmira goes to Ithaca and wins 75-60

    Hartwick wins at home against Houghton 86-58

    Fisher beats Utica on the road 68-47


    Pep believes that's the first time AU has won in Hoboken, NJ. Saxons have no time to celebrate as they'll be at defending conference champ Hartwick tomorrow with a 5 p.m. tipoff. On Saxon Warriors!

    Pep
    It was a   " close but no cigar"   night for your Saxons over in Oneonta last night. When I saw they lost to Hartwick by the single point I had to see how the game ended. I then saw that the end result was not as close as it looked. However getting to within a point after being down 10 with 1:05 to play is pretty darned good!!!   I'm guessing you'll have your revenge on Jan. 30th when the Hawks make their trip over to Mayberry.

    Having seen the Saxons manhandle Elmira last night, 80-51, Pep is looking forward to that Jan. 30 matchup with the Hawks. Pep was real pleased with the Saxon defensive play last night...and Coach Phillips has his boys running, with quick ball movement. Fun to watch. Seems like the veteran players on the team are all a notch better than last year and the teamwork has been exemplary. Glad the Saxons are playing at home this weekend....Houghton on Friday night and Utica on Saturday.

    Scores from last night:
    Alfred 80, Elmira 51
    Houghton 65, Nazareth 60
    St. John Fisher 92, Ithaca 61
    Stevens 71, Utica 52

    Seems the Empire 8 is down some this year. Pep sees St. John Fisher as the favorite, given results to date. On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 21, 2015, 09:27:06 AM
    Congrats to Head Coach Kevin Broderick on his 300th career win. Nazareth improves to 6-9 and is back in the mix at (2-4) with all these E8 teams losing a bunch of games in conference. A down year for the E8 but some good teams with bad records. Looks like Fishers year in the E8. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 21, 2015, 11:00:15 AM
    Looks like?
    The way they have been on this streak I would say that there is no doubt.
    6-0 in the league and on an 11 game winning streak.
    Yeah i'd say  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 21, 2015, 12:00:44 PM
    Outside of Fisher, whole conference stinks.

    Ithaca's in 2nd place, and they've lost by 15 or more points SIX times. Alfred's the only other team with a winning record, but their OOC schedule is lame. Elmira might be a sleeper team, as they actually seem to have played some tough opponents, but they also have a 31-point loss to a 5-10 Washington and Lee, and 6-9 is still 6-9.

    Just awful
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 22, 2015, 09:34:54 AM
    Its tough to have a conference league leader not even ranked in the top 25.
    That is a direct result of a really down year for the E8, well that and losing to Medaille early in the year ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on January 24, 2015, 06:11:55 PM
    13 in a row for Fisher
    Bad conference or not
    Good run by all counts!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 26, 2015, 11:08:05 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 24, 2015, 06:11:55 PM
    13 in a row for Fisher
    Bad conference or not
    Good run by all counts!

    Agreed. One thing I've learned from watching Ithaca's women's team dominate a generally weaker E8 is that it doesn't invalidate the wins, it just means you probably won't get noticed until and unless you do something in the NCAAs/

    Ithaca has emerged as the clear number two. They have a half-game lead on Stevens, a full game lead on the #3 and #4 teams, and are the only squad to play Fisher twice. I keep wondering if Elmira_which beat Ithaca and a solid Oswego team, and only lost to Fisher by 10, might be good, but 6-11 is 6-11.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 26, 2015, 06:25:38 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on January 24, 2015, 06:11:55 PM
    13 in a row for Fisher
    Bad conference or not
    Good run by all counts!

    This is my first chance to post in a while, but I have been very happy with this Fisher team. You are right, down conference (which it is) or not, it does not diminish what Fosher has done to this pont.  They are not squeaking by teams. Most of the wins during this stretch have been very impressive. Fisher is on pace to go undefeated in conference play (there is really no indication they will not) which is something even the best (IMHO) Fisher team did not do.

    It has been an impressive run for Fisher no doubt.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 02, 2015, 09:30:36 PM
    Fisher is in to the top 25, entering this week at #24. A nice recognition for what they are doing in conference this year. I still don't know how I feel about how good this team is, but at some point the 30 point wins can't be ignored.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 03, 2015, 02:45:42 PM
    So it's pretty clear that this conference is Fisher and then everyone else, at least for this year. Even if the Cardinals were upset in the conference tournament, it's pretty hard to envision anyone else doing much given the OOC results.

    In other news, I think Ithaca deserves a lot of credit for their season. With just two seniors and two post players on the roster, a team that went 2-12 in conference play last season and lost three starters (including Frank Mitchell, by far their best player) from that squad, the team is now 7-3 in conference play.

    Alfred, under a new HC, has apparently abandoned the Grinnell-lite style of play. The team's PPG has dropped from 96.7 PPG to 74.9, and the squad is now 5-5 in conference, after going 9-5 last year. On the plus side, the games no longer feature 60 fouls and 80 free throws.

    Nazareth has apparently fallen off a cliff, as a team that went 19-8, 10-4 last year is now 2-6, 6-11 with a loss to Hougton.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 04, 2015, 10:34:36 AM
    Fisher having a fabulous year and cruising through the Empire 8. Looks like there is 7 other teams who have a chance to get into this conference tournament.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 05, 2015, 11:58:43 AM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on February 04, 2015, 10:34:36 AM
    Fisher having a fabulous year and cruising through the Empire 8. Looks like there is 7 other teams who have a chance to get into this conference tournament.

    Unfortunately.

    Sorry, but conference tournaments are terrible for the sport. D-III sports are about access, but the bottom line is, you get your chance to qualify for the NCAA's through your conference by virtue of the 14-16 regular season games you play. Why even have a regular season if a team could finish 5-6 games behind Fisher and get a THIRD crack at them? Just hang around, win a dozen or so games, and hope you get hot.

    I'm just glad hoops has enough at large bids to prevent the kind of debacles that used to occur in men's lacrosse.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 05, 2015, 12:08:40 PM
    I think that is what makes College Basketball especially so exciting because anyone can beat anyone if you get into your conference tournament. If the best team in the conference is 5-6 games ahead of everyone then they shouldnt have a problem beating a team a 3rd time. Even tho it is tough to beat a team 3 times.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 05, 2015, 01:12:17 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on February 05, 2015, 12:08:40 PM
    I think that is what makes College Basketball especially so exciting because anyone can beat anyone if you get into your conference tournament. If the best team in the conference is 5-6 games ahead of everyone then they shouldnt have a problem beating a team a 3rd time. Even tho it is tough to beat a team 3 times.

    Well sure, anyone can always beat anyone. But that sidesteps the main question: Why do you get three chances to beat a team in one season? Why does a team have to prove over two games what it already proved over sixteen? Why are we letting a 3-game tournament replace a 72-game regular season schedule?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 08, 2015, 01:00:30 PM
    So by your logic who won the Empire 8 last year if you dont have a conference tournament because they are so calledbad for the sport? So did you want Stevens, Naz and Hartwick to all be in the NCAA Tournament?  Because if you dont have a conference tournament then how do you figure out who gets into the NCAAs
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 08, 2015, 02:36:07 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on February 08, 2015, 01:00:30 PM
    So by your logic who won the Empire 8 last year if you dont have a conference tournament because they are so calledbad for the sport? So did you want Stevens, Naz and Hartwick to all be in the NCAA Tournament?  Because if you dont have a conference tournament then how do you figure out who gets into the NCAAs

    The same way we determined the #1 seed for the tournament that year? It's not rocket science to come up with a tiebreaker
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on February 09, 2015, 10:12:52 AM
    Dcahill. I gotta admit. For 14 y/15 year old you got a lot of spunk.  I hope 1  day that we can get you on the Bengals bandwagon!!!  You definitely keep up with d3 hoops !!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 09, 2015, 03:05:46 PM
    Thanks Bengalsrule I will stay on the Naz train tho!  ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on February 09, 2015, 03:15:04 PM
    Not surprised 👍
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 10, 2015, 03:14:23 PM
    My prediction for the three up-for-grabs spots in the E8 tournament:

    Ithaca, Alfred, and Hartwick.

    There's a lot that can happen, but Stevens essentially trails all these teams by two games thanks to the 0-2 H2H record against the Saxons and Hawks. Also, they, still need to play St. John Fisher again, meaning I see 9-7 as the absolute best. I think the other three teams find the 1/2 wins needed to hit that mark.

    Naz looks cooked, as they still have games against Fisher and the Ithaca and Wick teams that took them to the cleaners

    Elmira would have been really interesting had they beaten Naz. They get 4 of the last 5 at home, with only Houghten left on the road, but it's hard to see them going better than 8-8 considering what Alfred did to them.

    Unless someone pulls a Naz '09, I just don't see the E8 going to anyone but Fisher.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2015, 02:33:34 PM
    Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/11/first-regional-rankings-released-today/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/11/first-regional-rankings-released-today/)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on February 16, 2015, 10:42:44 AM
    Ithaca loses two heartbreakers in overtime at home, and suddenly, the conference is wide open at the bottom.

    Against Hartwick, a furious 2nd-half rally fell just short, as a last-second shot in regulation to win it came a half-second too late, and Ithaca fell in the extra frame.

    The Bombers looked like they were going to rebound against Stevens, but lost the craziest game of the E8 season. Ithaca dominated for nearly the entire game, never trailing, leading by as much as 19 in the second half, and by 10 points with just three minutes to go, before a huge rally by Stevens knotted the game.

    The Ducks looked like they were going to make quick work of IC in the overtime, leading by 7 points with just 33 seconds to go, but Ithaca managed a miracle comeback of their own, before missing a game-tying three down 123-120 with seven seconds remaining in the second overtime.

    This game really wasn't that well-played as Ithaca relied nearly entirely on the three point shot (52 attempts!) and had little inside presence. The Bombers managed to allow Stevens to score 67 points in the final 20 minutes of basketball, and you have to wonder if their inexperience hurt them. Stevens, meanwhile, was appalling from the free throw line (27-52, and 17-42 from everyone who wasn't Chris Cosgrove)

    Ithaca seems unable to put 40 full minutes together most nights.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 17, 2015, 10:30:57 PM
    Just back from the Galanis Family Arena where Pep's Saxons upset the nationally-ranked St. John Fisher Cardinals, 60-59. The AU win snapped Fisher's 18-game winning streak and gave the Cardinals their lone blemish in the Empire 8 standings.

    Dalton Walsh had the game of a lifetime, leading all scorers with 18 points, none more important than swishing his second free throw attempt with 3.2 seconds remaining to give AU the 60-59 win. AU had led most of the second half but the Cardinals tied it with 18 seconds to go.

    A vociferous crowd supported the Saxons. Attendance was recorded at 738 but they must have taken a head count during the first half. Throughout the second half, the crowd seemed to swell and get louder. Probably the most spirited, hard fought men's basketball game Pep has seen in Alfred in about 30 years.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 18, 2015, 10:07:12 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 17, 2015, 10:30:57 PM
    Just back from the Galanis Family Arena where Pep's Saxons upset the nationally-ranked St. John Fisher Cardinals, 60-59. The AU win snapped Fisher's 18-game winning streak and gave the Cardinals their lone blemish in the Empire 8 standings.

    Dalton Walsh had the game of a lifetime, leading all scorers with 18 points, none more important than swishing his second free throw attempt with 3.2 seconds remaining to give AU the 60-59 win. AU had led most of the second half but the Cardinals tied it with 18 seconds to go.

    A vociferous crowd supported the Saxons. Attendance was recorded at 738 but they must have taken a head count during the first half. Throughout the second half, the crowd seemed to swell and get louder. Probably the most spirited, hard fought men's basketball game Pep has seen in Alfred in about 30 years.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Congratulations on the big win last night Pep. I believe that win clinches a playoff spot for the Saxons even though none of the releases I read stated that fact. Stevens can no longer finish ahead of you since you own the tiebreaker against them. If Elmira wins out and you lose your remaining games then Hartwick and Elmira would own the tiebreakers over the Saxons but Alfred would own the tiebreaker over Ithaca, should the Bombers win their final game. So I think you've clinched a spot in the E8 tournament, unless I've missed something.  Way to go. 8-)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on February 18, 2015, 02:30:02 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 18, 2015, 10:07:12 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 17, 2015, 10:30:57 PM
    Just back from the Galanis Family Arena where Pep's Saxons upset the nationally-ranked St. John Fisher Cardinals, 60-59. The AU win snapped Fisher's 18-game winning streak and gave the Cardinals their lone blemish in the Empire 8 standings.

    Dalton Walsh had the game of a lifetime, leading all scorers with 18 points, none more important than swishing his second free throw attempt with 3.2 seconds remaining to give AU the 60-59 win. AU had led most of the second half but the Cardinals tied it with 18 seconds to go.

    A vociferous crowd supported the Saxons. Attendance was recorded at 738 but they must have taken a head count during the first half. Throughout the second half, the crowd seemed to swell and get louder. Probably the most spirited, hard fought men's basketball game Pep has seen in Alfred in about 30 years.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Congratulations on the big win last night Pep. I believe that win clinches a playoff spot for the Saxons even though none of the releases I read stated that fact. Stevens can no longer finish ahead of you since you own the tiebreaker against them. If Elmira wins out and you lose your remaining games then Hartwick and Elmira would own the tiebreakers over the Saxons but Alfred would own the tiebreaker over Ithaca, should the Bombers win their final game. So I think you've clinched a spot in the E8 tournament, unless I've missed something.  Way to go. 8-)

    Plus 1 on the congrats the Pep!!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 19, 2015, 08:48:58 AM
    Quote from: magicman on February 18, 2015, 10:07:12 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 17, 2015, 10:30:57 PM
    Just back from the Galanis Family Arena where Pep's Saxons upset the nationally-ranked St. John Fisher Cardinals, 60-59. The AU win snapped Fisher's 18-game winning streak and gave the Cardinals their lone blemish in the Empire 8 standings.

    Dalton Walsh had the game of a lifetime, leading all scorers with 18 points, none more important than swishing his second free throw attempt with 3.2 seconds remaining to give AU the 60-59 win. AU had led most of the second half but the Cardinals tied it with 18 seconds to go.

    A vociferous crowd supported the Saxons. Attendance was recorded at 738 but they must have taken a head count during the first half. Throughout the second half, the crowd seemed to swell and get louder. Probably the most spirited, hard fought men's basketball game Pep has seen in Alfred in about 30 years.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Congratulations on the big win last night Pep. I believe that win clinches a playoff spot for the Saxons even though none of the releases I read stated that fact. Stevens can no longer finish ahead of you since you own the tiebreaker against them. If Elmira wins out and you lose your remaining games then Hartwick and Elmira would own the tiebreakers over the Saxons but Alfred would own the tiebreaker over Ithaca, should the Bombers win their final game. So I think you've clinched a spot in the E8 tournament, unless I've missed something.  Way to go. 8-)

    Pep believes you're right. Thanks for the congrats...you and BengalsRule. +K It wasn't mentioned likely because there's such a logjam that they hadn't yet figured it out. AU has the edge in a tiebreaker against any team the Saxons split with, as AU split with Fisher. No one else did. Hartwick would have the tiebreaker against AU on the basis of sweeping the Saxons and, in all probability, it will be the Hawks and Saxons in Round 3 in the Empire 8 Tournament (as #2 and #3 respectively), but this weekend will determine how it all plays out.

    Pep was encouraged to see that one of the Saxons, in a post-game interview, basically said that "We can celebrate tonight but we need to put this game behind us because we've got work to do preparing for Utica and Elmira." Pep likes what he's hearing.

    Fan support played a huge role in the win....so the Saxons must keep working and improving with every practice, every game, if they ever hope to win a ticket to the dance. While AU travels well, Fisher will have the home court advantage in the conference tourney.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 20, 2015, 10:30:09 PM
    Saxons defeat Utica, 98-84 for 7th straight win, moving to 10-5 in Empire 8, 17-7 overall. Utica drops to 6-10 in E8, 10-15 overall.
    St. John Fisher averts second straight 1-point loss with a Chaz Lott layup at the buzzer to edge Hartwick, 69-68
    Fisher now 14-1 in E-8, 21-3 overall, while Hawks drop to 9-6 in E8, 14-10 overall
    Ithaca locks up an E8 Conference Tourney bid with an 83-74 win at Elmira. IC finishes 9-7 in E8, 12-13 overall.
    Elmira drops to 7-8 in E8, 10-14 overall.
    Nazareth defeated Stevens, 80-71, dropping the Ducks to 7-8 in E8, 10-14 overall while Naz goes to 6-9 in E8, 10-14 overall.

    E8 Conference Tourney, unless Pep is mistaken somewhere along the way, should look like this:
    #1 St. John Fisher (15-1)   vs.  #4 Ithaca (9-7)
    #2 or #3 Alfred (10-5)  vs. #2 or #3 Hartwick (9-6)

    Saxons win tomorrow at Elmira, they lock up the #2 seed, which makes no difference because whether they win or lose, they'll be matched up with Hartwick. And, should Hartwick lose to Naz tomorrow, the Hawks, Pep believes, would win the tiebreaker over Ithaca.

    On Saxon Warriors!



    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 22, 2015, 03:43:27 PM
    Stevens hands St. John Fisher their second loss in their last three games, 60-54.
    Alfred holds off a determined Elmira squad, 67-62.
    Hartwick defeats Nazareth, 100-88.

    Empire 8 Conference Tournament:
    #4 Ithaca (9-7, 12-13) vs. #1 St. John Fisher (14-2, 21-4)
    #3 Hartwick (10-6, 15-10) vs. #2 Alfred (11-5, 18-7)

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 27, 2015, 11:04:55 PM
    Empire 8 Semifinals

    #1 St John Fisher 90 #4 Ithaca 75

    #2 Alfred 79 #3 Hartwick 72


    Empire 8 Championship Saturday Feb 28th 4:00 PM

    #2 Alfred at #1 St. John Fisher
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 27, 2015, 11:19:07 PM
    In other news regarding the Empire 8 Conference.

    While I was courtside tonight at the Plattsburgh State-Brockport State game I was approached by a gentleman who showed me a press release from Fisher that stated that Keegan Ryan was named as the E8 Player of the Year.

    According to the release, Keegan is only the 3rd sophomore in the history of the E8 to win the POTY and the first time a sophomore from St. John Fisher has done so.

    Keegan is from my home town and when he decided to go to Fisher 2 years ago I came on this board and stated that the Cardinals got a good one. A player that I had hoped would play for my Cardinals at Plattsburgh because we certainly wanted him to. I thought he might be in the mix for POTY, especially with the year Fisher has had, but being a sophomore felt that his turn might come later. Apparently he couldn't wait. ;D Congratulations to Keegan. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 28, 2015, 09:32:52 PM
    St John Fisher wins the Empire 8 Championship by defeating Alfred 77-62.

    Plattsburgh State lost to Oswego in the SUNYAC championship 70-58

    Skidmore defeated Clarkson in the Liberty League Championship 68-64.


    That should leave Plattsburgh who was #2 in the last set of Regional Rankings as the first team from the East sitting at the table when the at large bids are determined.  And we think that our vRRO will jump from 1-0 entering today to a 4-1 record vRRO after Oswego as SUNYAC Champions should make the last set of Regional Rankings that no one will see. Also Keene State defeated Rhode Island today, after beating Eastern Connecticut yesterday and won the automatic bid for the Little East Conference. Keene State should make the Northeast Regional Rankings. Plattsburgh beat Keene State on New Year's Eve in Keene. We also defeated Oswego 2 of the 3 times we played them . So with our win over Skidmore  back in November, our 2 wins over Oswego and the win over Keene State we should enter the next rankings with that 4-1 vRRO. If a lot of favorites lose that may hurt us but our 4-1 vRRO should be better than a whole lot of other teams on the bubble. We think we may still be alive.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2015, 01:57:51 AM
    That 4-1 would be a good number. They don't just look at a win-loss record or winning percentage or number of games, though -- part of the consideration is the quality of those wins. So if Oswego is the sixth team in the East then it won't mean as much as it would for a team that beat someone more highly ranked in a region.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 06, 2015, 04:17:56 PM
    East Region Teams in the NCAA Tournament tonight.

    Oswego State vs Calvin College  at Mount Union College   5:30 PM

    Good luck to the Oswego Lakers in tonight's NCAA game. The oddsmakers have made the Lakers a 5 point underdog against Calvin College. Hope Oswego can pull off the upset.

    Skidmore College vs Wesleyan University at Johns Hopkins University  5:30 PM

    The Thoroughbreds are a slight 1 point favorite here and even though Wesleyan is the NESCAC champions they were only the 6th seed in their tournament. They got hot at the right time but Skidmore has the talent to play with these guys. Hope the Liberty League representatives can win one for the East Region.

    #18 WPI at #20 St. John Fisher   7:30 PM

    Glad the Cardinals got a home game here. This game matches up 2 teams that are both ranked in the D3hoops Top 25. The point spread favors the Cardinals by a slim 3 points. Fisher needs a big game from Keegan Ryan and Chaz Lott.

    SUNY-Cobleskill at William Paterson   7:30 PM

    The Fighting Tigers better sharpen their claws because they will have a tough time against the Pioneers from Willie Pat. The oddsmakers have made the Pioneers an 18 point home favorite. Maybe Cobleskill can take a page out of Morrisville's book and pull off the upset of another New Jersey Athletic Conference team like the Mustangs did last year when they knocked off Richard Stockton in the Sweet 16 and the year before that when they beat host Ramapo in the first round. Sure would like to see the NEAC conference take down an NJAC team for the 3rd year in a row. 

    Of interest is that the last 2 times William Paterson made the NCAA tournament they were big favorites in the opening round. In 2009-10 a highly ranked 25-2 Willie Pat team, lost in the 1st round to Albertus Magnus when nobody had ever heard of Albertus Magnus. Two years later they were the NJAC champions of the 2011-12 season and again highly ranked. That William Paterson team was 24-3 and played at home against tiny Becker College (enrollment 1299 students) and Becker beat then by a 69-53 margin in the first round. So...hey you never know.         

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 06, 2015, 09:37:57 PM
    St John Fisher defeats WPI by a 76-70 final score.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 08, 2015, 01:01:40 AM
    Congratulations to the St. John Fisher Cardinals for making it to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament.

    The Cardinals defeated Amherst Saturday night 87-70.

    I've been waiting 3 years to type that sentence but was hoping that this year it would be another team of Cardinals that would take care of that job for me. But here in the East Region we will take what we can get. After my Cardinals have been eliminated by Amherst the past 2 years, it's somehow fitting that this year, Amherst was eliminated by a team of Cardinals. Another little bit of irony is that Fisher's Coach Kornaker, was, for a short time an assistant coach under my Cardinals' coach, Tom Curle.

    The next game will be a tough one for Fisher as they will have to take on the #1 team in the country, Randolph-Macon, most likely in Ashland, Virginia, on the Yellow Jackets home court.

    Good luck to the Cardinals and hopefully they get to play 4 more games. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 11, 2015, 03:05:03 PM
    Does anyone know if video of the SJFC/RMC game will be available Friday night? The SJFC webpage is typically pretty good about listing that sort of information, but does not have video listed as an option to follow the game. The RMC page has video of previous games, which leads me to think Friday's game will be shown, but I don't see a link to the specific game. Any RMC fans out there that know if they stream their games?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2015, 03:17:41 PM
    The game will be streamed... we just don't have the link information set-up as of yet. We are working on some behind-the-scenes stuff that has delayed that information... but rest assured... it will be streamed.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 11, 2015, 09:00:40 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2015, 03:17:41 PM
    The game will be streamed... we just don't have the link information set-up as of yet. We are working on some behind-the-scenes stuff that has delayed that information... but rest assured... it will be streamed.

    Thanks so much for the info. I appreciate you helping me worry about anything else over the next couple days. +K
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 13, 2015, 12:12:44 AM
    St. John Fisher has their work cut out for them as they take on the #1 ranked team in the country at 8 PM tonight. Winners of 24 straight games the Randolph-Macon Yellow Jackets ran the table in the tough Old Dominion Athletic Conference. They were 16-0 in conference play and after losing 2 of their first 5 games they went on that 24 game winning streak. Included in those 24 wins were 3 victories over another Sweet 16 team from the ODAC, Virginia Wesleyan.

    The oddsmakers have made Randolph-Macon a 5 point favorite over Fisher which means the Cardinals have every reason to think they can play with these guys. Virginia Wesleyan is also favored to win their game against Dickinson by a 4 point margin. That would pit the 2 ODAC teams against each other for a spot in the Final Four. I hope Fisher can throw a monkey wrench into that possibility and advance to the Great Eight.

    The Cardinals have been playing some good basketball lately with solid wins over WPI and Amherst. As late as January 25th WPI (6th)was ranked ahead of Randolph-Macon (8th) in the Top 25 poll so the fact that they are #1 at the moment is just a number. If Fisher can take down WPI, then they are capable of doing the same to the Yellow Jackets. Go get em Cardinals!!  Time to end that 24 game win streak.  Maybe a final score of Fisher 76 Randy Mac 73   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 13, 2015, 10:16:20 PM
    St John Fisher falls to the #1 ranked Randolph-Macon Yellow jackets by a 64-57 final score.

    The Cardinals were only down by 3 points at the half 29-26 and hung with the Jackets for the first part of the 2nd period. Gradually Randolph-Macon opened up a 9 point lead and stretched it to a game high 11 point lead at 54-43 with 8:50 left to play. The Cardinals would rally as they got 6 points from Stefan Bock and a 3 pointer from Optimystik Kinard to get it to a one possession game at 55-52  with 2:54 remaining. That was as close as they could get though as some late turnovers cost them valuable possessions and the Yellow Jackets capitalized on their opportunities.

    Tyler Hart with 21 points and Stefan Bock with 14 led the Cardinals. Optimystik Kinard had 9 points and a team high 9 rebounds.   

    Nice run by the Cardinals to make the Sweet 16. With a few breaks they might have advanced to the next round but they clearly showed that they were deserving of their ranking this year. They should be in the top 15 in the final poll but I won't be surprised if they fail to end up there.       
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on March 14, 2015, 07:55:08 AM
    As a Cardinal for life I am proud of the effort from Fisher last night. They played hard and stayed in it against a really good team. I thought Fisher could have played better and won that game but RMC had something to do with the turnovers and stretches of poor shooting.

    All in all a great season for Fisher and I hope this starts another run of success like we saw from 04-10.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 16, 2015, 04:19:54 PM
    D3hoops has released their All Region Teams. Here's the one from the East Region. No surprises here. Too many good players and never enough awards to go around. I could easily come up with 15 more players that deserve to be mentioned for their achievements both on and off the court. Congratulations to all the players on this list, plus all the players and coaches who didn't make this list, for giving me so many hours of enjoyment through this long cold winter here in the North Country. Next season's first practice is only 213 days away. ;) 


    March 16, 2015
    D3hoops.com 2015 men's All-East Region team



    Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools.

    Player of the Year: Gordon Lyons, Geneseo State
    Coach of the Year: Rob Kornaker, St. John Fisher
    Rookie of the Year: Ian Helps, F, Fredonia State

    First team     
    Pos.   Player          School       Yr. Hometown
    G Aldin Medunjanin Skidmore Jr. New York, N.Y.
    G John Coleman Clarkson Sr. Potsdam, N.Y.
    F Keegan Ryan St. John Fisher So. Plattsburgh, N.Y.
    F Gordon Lyons Geneseo State Sr. Amherst, N.Y.
    F Evan Kupferberg NYU Jr. Boca Raton, Fla.

    Second team     
    Pos.   Player       School       Yr.    Hometown
    G Brian Sortino Oswego State So. Fairport, N.Y.
    G Zach Mager Oneonta State Sr. New City, N.Y.
    F CJ Dunston Lancaster Bible Jr. Elkton, Md.
    F Mitch Ford Nazareth Jr. Victor, N.Y.
    F Reggie Williams Plattsburgh State Sr. Yonkers, N.Y.

    Third team     
    Pos.    Player         School        Yr.     Hometown
    G Chris Cartwright Buffalo State Sr. Binghamton, N.Y.
    G Trey Gordon Gallaudet Jr. Talladega, Ala.
    G Connor Rehbaum Hobart Sr. Cheektowaga, N.Y.
    G Chaz Lott St. John Fisher Jr. Wynanskill, N.Y.
    F Maurice Mills Nazareth Jr. Utica, N.Y.

    Here's a link to the complete list of All Region Teams:

    http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2014-15/index

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 19, 2015, 01:14:43 PM
    Congratulations to the following players from the East Region who, today, were chosen as All Americans by the National Association of Basketball Coaches.

    Gordon Lyons senior forward from Geneseo State who was selected as an NABC 1st Team All American

    John Coleman senior forward from Clarkson College who was selected as an NABC 2nd Team All American

    Keegan Ryan sophomore forward from St. John Fisher College who was selected as an NABC 3rd Team All American

    Here' a link to the complete list of All Americans:

    http://static.psbin.com/1/5/jqtd9kjc8xjjmf/NABC_Announces_2015_Coaches-_Division_III_All-America_Teams.pdf
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 21, 2015, 05:52:37 PM
    The D3hoops All American Teams were released today just prior to the National Championship game. The East Region had 2 players receive honors.

    Gordon Lyons from Geneseo State was named to the D3hoops All American 2nd Team.

    Keegan Ryan from St. John Fisher was named as a  D3hoops Honorable Mention All American

    Nice to see these guys make it as one of the top 25 players in the country. Congratulations.

    Here is a link to the complete list of All Americans:

    http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/2015   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on March 23, 2015, 08:01:32 PM
    Alfred's senior forward Dalton Walsh was a member of the West All-Star Team in the Reese's All-Star Classic played in the Salem Civic Center on March 21, 2015 before the NCAA Division III Championship Game.

    Congratulations, Dalton!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on October 23, 2015, 07:35:37 AM
    Posted this on the SUNYAC board and copied it here because of the St. John Fisher ranking.

    D3hoops released its Top 25 preseason poll on Thursday morning and St. John Fisher, an NCAA Sweet 16 team last year, is the only East Region team ranked as they open the year in the #22 spot with 132 points. Pat Coleman has released for the first time ever, the place by place voting totals for each team. This allows us to see that Fisher's highest ranking was from 2 voters who thought they were good enough to be #11 in the country, 2 other voters had them in the 12th spot. The Cardinals got votes from 15 of the 25 voters that make up the poll. With 3 starters returning including E-8 Player of the Year, junior Keegan Ryan, St. John Fisher will be looking to repeat the success they had on the hardwood last year.   

    NYU just missed the Top 25 as they checked in the Others Receiving Votes category with 84 points which was good enough for 27th place. The Violets return 4 starters from last year's team that failed to make the NCAA's and finished 19-9. They were ranked briefly last year at #23 when they jumped from no votes in the previous poll to 69 points in week #8 after a short winning streak that gave them a 12-4 record on January 25th. They got some help right after Christmas when former Division I player Hakeem Harris joined the team. Harris scored 26 pts, 24 pts, and 24 pts in that 3 game winning streak that boosted them into the Top 25. He went on to lead the team in scoring with over 18 ppg. The team however quickly dropped out of the Top 25 and went 7-5 the rest of the year, They were runners up in the ECAC Metro Tournament losing to Staten Island in the Championship game by an 84-80 final score. Harris was listed as a junior last year but is the 1 starter that isn't returning for this season for reasons unknown to me. The Sporting News picked them to finish 10th in the country but most of us know that any polls on D3 basketball other than the D3hoops poll is usually worthless to consider. The University Athletic Association conference that NYU is in, lost a ton of talent last year, and the only team from the UAA that is ranked in the D3 hoops Top 25 is the University of Chicago at #17. So this could be the year that NYU may actually do some damage in the conference and return to the NCAA tournament, but it sure would have been easier if Harris had returned for his senior year.   

    Oswego State was the only other team from the East Region that garnered any voter support in the poll as the Lakers were also listed in the Others Receiving Votes category after receiving 54 points. That puts Oswego State in 35th place to open the year. The Lakers are coming off a SUNYAC Championship and an appearance in the NCAA tournament where they lost a 1st round game to Calvin by a 78-69 score. They return just about their entire team with the loss of only 1 starter from last year's roster. They have their top 3 scorers back led by All Conference guard Brian Sortino who averaged 16.5 ppg last year and Walter Sampson who tossed in  10.3 ppg. The Lakers return 9 players that averaged double digit minutes last season so they will have a strong bench as well.

    PS to Mr. Coleman: It was nice to see the breakdown of the voters placements. I hope you consider giving some thought to doing that every week as I'm sure most of us on these boards would greatly appreciate it (I know just what you need, more work to do to put out that poll). It is informative and since I've been a voter on the Posters' Poll for the past 6 or 7 years, we've released all the placements by our voters. It has always been interesting to see what others think about the various teams that make up our poll. Of course we have a much smaller number of voters than the 25 that you have to deal with but if you can't find the time to do it I understand. Just give it to Dave McHugh, he releases his vote for public perusal, he'd probably enjoy doing 24 more?  I'm sure he's got all kinds of free time on his hands.  ;D (I'm joking Dave, I'm Joking. I know how many things you have on your plate)           
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 23, 2015, 01:41:59 PM
    Quote from: magicman on October 23, 2015, 07:35:37 AM
    Posted this on the SUNYAC board and copied it here because of the St. John Fisher ranking.

    D3hoops released its Top 25 preseason poll on Thursday morning and St. John Fisher, an NCAA Sweet 16 team last year, is the only East Region team ranked as they open the year in the #22 spot with 132 points. Pat Coleman has released for the first time ever, the place by place voting totals for each team. This allows us to see that Fisher's highest ranking was from 2 voters who thought they were good enough to be #11 in the country, 2 other voters had them in the 12th spot. The Cardinals got votes from 15 of the 25 voters that make up the poll. With 3 starters returning including E-8 Player of the Year, junior Keegan Ryan, St. John Fisher will be looking to repeat the success they had on the hardwood last year.   

    NYU just missed the Top 25 as they checked in the Others Receiving Votes category with 84 points which was good enough for 27th place. The Violets return 4 starters from last year's team that failed to make the NCAA's and finished 19-9. They were ranked briefly last year at #23 when they jumped from no votes in the previous poll to 69 points in week #8 after a short winning streak that gave them a 12-4 record on January 25th. They got some help right after Christmas when former Division I player Hakeem Harris joined the team. Harris scored 26 pts, 24 pts, and 24 pts in that 3 game winning streak that boosted them into the Top 25. He went on to lead the team in scoring with over 18 ppg. The team however quickly dropped out of the Top 25 and went 7-5 the rest of the year, They were runners up in the ECAC Metro Tournament losing to Staten Island in the Championship game by an 84-80 final score. Harris was listed as a junior last year but is the 1 starter that isn't returning for this season for reasons unknown to me. The Sporting News picked them to finish 10th in the country but most of us know that any polls on D3 basketball other than the D3hoops poll is usually worthless to consider. The University Athletic Association conference that NYU is in, lost a ton of talent last year, and the only team from the UAA that is ranked in the D3 hoops Top 25 is the University of Chicago at #17. So this could be the year that NYU may actually do some damage in the conference and return to the NCAA tournament, but it sure would have been easier if Harris had returned for his senior year.   

    Oswego State was the only other team from the East Region that garnered any voter support in the poll as the Lakers were also listed in the Others Receiving Votes category after receiving 54 points. That puts Oswego State in 35th place to open the year. The Lakers are coming off a SUNYAC Championship and an appearance in the NCAA tournament where they lost a 1st round game to Calvin by a 78-69 score. They return just about their entire team with the loss of only 1 starter from last year's roster. They have their top 3 scorers back led by All Conference guard Brian Sortino who averaged 16.5 ppg last year and Walter Sampson who tossed in  10.3 ppg. The Lakers return 9 players that averaged double digit minutes last season so they will have a strong bench as well.

    PS to Mr. Coleman: It was nice to see the breakdown of the voters placements. I hope you consider giving some thought to doing that every week as I'm sure most of us on these boards would greatly appreciate it (I know just what you need, more work to do to put out that poll). It is informative and since I've been a voter on the Posters' Poll for the past 6 or 7 years, we've released all the placements by our voters. It has always been interesting to see what others think about the various teams that make up our poll. Of course we have a much smaller number of voters than the 25 that you have to deal with but if you can't find the time to do it I understand. Just give it to Dave McHugh, he releases his vote for public perusal, he'd probably enjoy doing 24 more?  I'm sure he's got all kinds of free time on his hands.  ;D (I'm joking Dave, I'm Joking. I know how many things you have on your plate)         

    Thanks for the breakdown Magicman! I am looking forward to what this season has in store. With Fisher being down (by their standards anyway) for a few years I had drifted away from D3 basketball, but last year I got into it full tilt again. It was fun to see Fisher playing at a high level and winning again, and I remembered why basketball was my first love when it comes to D3 sports.

    It will be interesting to see what Fisher adds to the pieces already in place this year. I know the coaching staff was excited about certain recruits last year but those players saw limited action in their first year. Knowing Kornaker, I am sure those players have been in the gym all year, and will be more prepared to play physically. Obviously with Keegan Ryan and Chaz Lott back this season they have a good starting point. However, several key pieces are missing from last year. Adam Ambielli, Stefan Bock, and Optimystik Kinard were all key pieces to last years run, and will need to be replaced.

    Kornaker has always been pretty good on the recruiting trail, and I hope he gets some talent again this year. They have pieces for sure, but will need to have some new players step up as Fisher lost a lot of athleticism and experience.

    Interested in what other E8/East Region teams have coming back as well. I would love to get this board going again the way it used several years back.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 02, 2015, 11:06:56 PM
    The D3hoops preseason All American Teams have been released. Here are the representatives from the East Region.

    St John Fisher's 6' 8" Junior forward/center Keegan Ryan was placed on the 2nd team.

    Skidmore's Aldin Medunjanin a 6'4" Senior guard was named to the 4th team.

    Evan Kupferberg a 6'6" Senior forward from NYU has also been chosen as a menber of the 4th team.

    No one else from the East Region was selected. Here is the complete list:

    http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/preseason-2016
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 12, 2015, 02:53:18 PM
    Excited to see Fisher get started this weekend against SUNYIT. I don't know that I have ever seen SUNYIT play before, but if I remember right they had a decent rivalry with Utica College several years back. Not sure what to expect, but I am hoping Fisher starts the season with a  strong performance. More than anything I am just excited that hoops is back.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 15, 2015, 03:51:40 PM
    Good start for Fisher as they get a 20+ point win in the season opener against SUNYIT. Keegan Ryan and Tyler Hart both had 20, and they scored 96 points. Not a lot of bad news for the Careinals in the win.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 16, 2015, 10:31:43 AM
    Naz started off with two wins against DYouville Friday and Sage on Saturday. The Golden Flyers beat a Sage team that i believe will win a lot of games and much improved DYouville team. Naz will play Blufton friday at Buff State. Fisher beat SUNYIT, Hartwick lost big to Union, Ithaca beat Skidmore, Utica lost to Cortland and Stevens went 1-1 losing to Ursinus by 3 and beating Bryn Athyn.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 18, 2015, 12:25:14 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on November 16, 2015, 10:31:43 AM
    Naz started off with two wins against DYouville Friday and Sage on Saturday. The Golden Flyers beat a Sage team that i believe will win a lot of games and much improved DYouville team. Naz will play Blufton friday at Buff State. Fisher beat SUNYIT, Hartwick lost big to Union, Ithaca beat Skidmore, Utica lost to Cortland and Stevens went 1-1 losing to Ursinus by 3 and beating Bryn Athyn.

    I saw Sage play last year in the tournament at Fisher, and thought they were a good team. That is a good win for Naz.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on November 18, 2015, 12:33:51 PM
    Sage returned 4 of 5 starters from last years team and many guys off the bench, very athletic team with a lot of talent. They will win the Skyline league again i think this year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 22, 2015, 07:25:49 AM
    Fisher looked good again this weekend winning two games in the Stevenson Hoopsville  College Classic. Wins over DeSales and Dickenson. Dickenson was ranked 21, so a good showing by the Cardinals. I think know this team could be pretty good.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 24, 2015, 12:00:28 PM
    I got a chance to sit down with St. John Fisher coach Rob Kornaker at the Hoopsville National Invitational Classic this past weekend. Check out his interview and the rest of the Hoopsville Coach's Corner (which substituted for this Sunday's show) here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/coachs-corner (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/coachs-corner)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2015, 01:37:04 PM
    Hoopsville returns from the Thanksgiving break with plenty to cover.

    The season has certainly started with a lot of stuff. Rule changes, upsets, hot and cold starts, and more. That's why we added more Hoopsville shows to start the season! Tonight, we talk to some who have started hot, those with high expectations, and preview the final Wendy's Classic.

    Hoopsville hits the air at 7pm ET tonight!

    Guests include:
    - Mike Daley, Wendy's Classic Director and former Nazareth men's coach
    - Keith Bunkenburg, Benedictine men's coach
    - Greg Mitchell, No. 16 Hope men's coach
    - Abby Pyzik Smith, Lynchburg women's coach

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com (http://www.d3hoopsville.com)
    Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)
    Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville (http://www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville)
    SoundCloud (podcast): www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville (http://www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville)

    AND our podcast as been approved for iTunes!!! You should be able to find it... but here is a link, just in case: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087 (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on November 30, 2015, 12:57:01 AM
    Saxons (4-1) have now won three in a row after handing Hilbert its first loss this season, 91-74, in a game played Saturday afternoon in Hamburg.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 30, 2015, 12:24:52 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on November 30, 2015, 12:57:01 AM
    Saxons (4-1) have now won three in a row after handing Hilbert its first loss this season, 91-74, in a game played Saturday afternoon in Hamburg.

    I hope that they slow down by Dec 12th!!   ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 30, 2015, 12:53:55 PM
    Speaking of E8 basketball.... I expect St John Fisher to move up considerably in today's top 25 ranking (D3Hoops). I'd be surprised if they aren't top 10!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 30, 2015, 10:08:03 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 30, 2015, 12:53:55 PM
    Speaking of E8 basketball.... I expect St John Fisher to move up considerably in today's top 25 ranking (D3Hoops). I'd be surprised if they aren't top 10!!

    I'm not surprised.

    http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2015-16/week1

    STF is ranked #10!!!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on December 02, 2015, 11:02:05 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 30, 2015, 12:24:52 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on November 30, 2015, 12:57:01 AM
    Saxons (4-1) have now won three in a row after handing Hilbert its first loss this season, 91-74, in a game played Saturday afternoon in Hamburg.

    I hope that they slow down by Dec 12th!!   ;)

    They did. Played horrible in allowing Fredonia State to get its first win last night. Had a 38-30 halftime lead then got outhustled and outmuscled in the second half. Saxons are young and it's early. Just hoping they learn as they go...which is how it panned out last year.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 02, 2015, 02:17:31 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on December 02, 2015, 11:02:05 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 30, 2015, 12:24:52 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on November 30, 2015, 12:57:01 AM
    Saxons (4-1) have now won three in a row after handing Hilbert its first loss this season, 91-74, in a game played Saturday afternoon in Hamburg.

    I hope that they slow down by Dec 12th!!   ;)

    They did. Played horrible in allowing Fredonia State to get its first win last night. Had a 38-30 halftime lead then got outhustled and outmuscled in the second half. Saxons are young and it's early. Just hoping they learn as they go...which is how it panned out last year.

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Pep-

    Will you be joining your Saxons on their journey to Western New York Dec 13th?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 02, 2015, 07:23:23 PM
    St John Fisher's top ten ranking in serious jeopardy as the Cardinals trailed RIT by 20 points 52-32 with 14 minutes left to play.

    Cardinals have since  made a push and now have narrowed that gap to a four point deficit at 56-52 with 7 minutes left to play.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 02, 2015, 07:32:03 PM
    St John Fisher who trailed RIT by 20 points at 52-32 has regained the lead with a 28-6 run and are now ahead by a 60-58 score with under 4 minutes left to play.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 02, 2015, 07:44:17 PM
    Cardinals down 67-64 with 21 seconds to play. They come down and miss a game tying 3 pointer and RIT gets the rebound and is fouled. Tigers make both free throws and this game will be history.  RIT wins 69-64.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 02, 2015, 07:52:42 PM
    Wendy's Tournament.

    Rochester 64 Brockport 59

    RIT 69  St Jon Fisher 64.

    Brockport will meet St. John Fisher on Friday at 6 PM at Roberts Wesleyan in the consolations.

    Rochester will meet Rochester Tech at 8:00 PM in the semifinals at U of R

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 02, 2015, 08:56:51 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 02, 2015, 07:52:42 PM
    Wendy's Tournament.

    Rochester 64 Brockport 59

    RIT 69  St Jon Fisher 64.

    Brockport will meet St. John Fisher on Friday at 6 PM at Roberts Wesleyan in the consolations.

    Rochester will meet Rochester Tech at 8:00 PM in the semifinals at U of R

    Wow  Wendy's #1 seed (SJF)  loses to the #8 (RIT) seed AND 4th seed (Brockport) loses to 5th seed (U of R)!!. If anyone would have told me that Fisher AND Brockport would both lose today, I would have bet them lunch that they were wrong!!  Kudos to RIT and U of R!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 02, 2015, 09:27:52 PM
    Nazareth leads Geneseo 67-66 with 8 minutes left in the game.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 02, 2015, 09:32:06 PM
    Roberts Wesleyan leads Hobart 53-45 with 5:21 to play.

    If the Nazareth and Roberts Weslyan scores hold up it would mean that all four top seeds lost to the 4 worst seeds. ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 03, 2015, 12:27:06 AM
    Quote from: magicman on December 02, 2015, 09:32:06 PM
    Roberts Wesleyan leads Hobart 53-45 with 5:21 to play.

    If the Nazareth and Roberts Weslyan scores hold up it would mean that all four top seeds lost to the 4 worst seeds. ;D

    #3 seed Geneseo saves the day.  Seeds 1, 2 and 4 down the drain!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2015, 10:37:49 AM
    I'm very, very, very intrigued in Ithaca's men's team. They're 4-1, and the roster breakdown is as follows

    Seniors: 1
    Juniors: 1
    Sophomores: 5
    Freshmen: 8

    Now, I know rosters always skew young because of attrition (Ithaca had six Sophomores and Juniors on last year's team), but those *tend* to be guys who don't contribute as much:

    Sophomore Mark Chasin: 21 PPG/8 RPG/4.4 APG
    Sophomore Joey Flanagan: 16.8 PPG
    Freshman Peter Ezema: 10.8 PPG/12.8 RPG

    Some of these numbers are likely unsustainable...Ezema's listed at 6-2, so I am not sure how he's going to average 12 rebounds a game. And the Bombers have zero size. But there's some good young talent on the roster.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 03, 2015, 11:33:12 AM
    Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2015, 10:37:49 AM
    I'm very, very, very intrigued in Ithaca's men's team. They're 4-1, and the roster breakdown is as follows

    Seniors: 1
    Juniors: 1
    Sophomores: 5
    Freshmen: 8

    Now, I know rosters always skew young because of attrition (Ithaca had six Sophomores and Juniors on last year's team), but those *tend* to be guys who don't contribute as much:

    Sophomore Mark Chasin: 21 PPG/8 RPG/4.4 APG
    Sophomore Joey Flanagan: 16.8 PPG
    Freshman Peter Ezema: 10.8 PPG/12.8 RPG

    Some of these numbers are likely unsustainable...Ezema's listed at 6-2, so I am not sure how he's going to average 12 rebounds a game. And the Bombers have zero size. But there's some good young talent on the roster.

    Any team that can handle Cortland the way Ithaca did is definitely worthy of a look see.  Chasin (freshman E8 all star last year)  and Bevan combine for 49 pts vs Cortland!!!!! They definitely caught plenty of eyes with that victory!!  A team as young as that can only get better with time. I was wondering when some of the Bomber faithful were gonna begin to chime in.  I thought when Ithaca beat highly ranked Skidmore, that that might have been an accident.  Boy was I wrong. I expect them to win their next 3 non conference games and be very competitive in the E8.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jdex on December 05, 2015, 09:19:03 AM
    Nazareth nipped 75-73 by Hobart whose L. Ruddy sinks pair of FTs  at 0:01. Naz back from seven point deficit at 3'. Otherwise this game thisclose.

    Elmira tumbles 81-74 to St. Lawrence

    Fisher on 67-50 low end vs. Brockport
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 05, 2015, 04:03:02 PM
    St. John Fisher manages to win it's final game at the final Wendy's Tournament as they beat Nazareth by a  score of 83-66, to capture 7th place. Nazareth finished in 8th place, losing 2 close games prior to this one. Naz lost a 2 point game, 83-81, to Geneseo and then dropped another 2 point game, 75-73, to Hobart.

    Keegan Ryan leads the way for the Cardinals with team highs of 19 points and 9 rebounds. Alex Sausville also has 19 points and and 4 assists. Chazz Lott had 13 points and 9 assists.

    Brendan Wind led the Golden Flyers with 14 points.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: jdex on December 05, 2015, 08:06:06 PM

    Ithaca bows 88-78 to St. Lawrence whose Larries grab 44-37 lead at half. IC within a pair with 10' left before SL regains its balance and builds double digit leads nearly the rest of the way. SL 42-25 rebounding margin. IC 4-2, Saints 3-4

    Stevens edged 97-95 by Staten Island

    Houghton loses  77-73 to Canton
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 06, 2015, 06:56:53 PM
    Teams are finally settling into the season, but that doesn't mean things have gotten easier. Tonight on Hoopsville, Dave returns from the Wendy's Classic where he talked to those who helped wrap up the historic tournament. He also chats with those showing heir strength early in the campaign and pulling off upsets.

    Hoopsville hits the air at 7PM ET! www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/dec6 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/dec6)

    Guests include (in order):

    - Guy Kalland, Carleton men's coach
    - Bob Quillman, Central Region Reporter
    - Jimmy Smith, Texas Lutheran men's coach
    - Anthony Ewing, No. 10 Univ. of New England women's coach
    - Scott Hemer, SUNY Geneseo women's coach
    - Luke Flockerzi, Rochester men's coach
    - J.C. DeLass, East Region Reporter

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com (http://www.d3hoopsville.com)
    Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)
    Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville (http://www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville)
    SoundCloud (podcast): www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville (http://www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville)

    AND our podcast as been approved for iTunes!!! You should be able to find it... but here is a link, just in case: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087 (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on December 08, 2015, 02:52:51 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 05, 2015, 04:03:02 PM
    St. John Fisher manages to win it's final game at the final Wendy's Tournament as they beat Nazareth by a  score of 83-66, to capture 7th place. Nazareth finished in 8th place, losing 2 close games prior to this one. Naz lost a 2 point game, 83-81, to Geneseo and then dropped another 2 point game, 75-73, to Hobart.

    Keegan Ryan leads the way for the Cardinals with team highs of 19 points and 9 rebounds. Alex Sausville also has 19 points and and 4 assists. Chazz Lott had 13 points and 9 assists.

    Brendan Wind led the Golden Flyers with 14 points.

    That Wendy's tournament always has some interesting scores. I would guess both Fisher and Naz are better than their showings in the tournament. It felt like a big let down when Fisher got handled by RIT and Brockport.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 08, 2015, 03:55:23 PM
    Quote from: sjfcards on December 08, 2015, 02:52:51 PM
    Quote from: magicman on December 05, 2015, 04:03:02 PM
    St. John Fisher manages to win it's final game at the final Wendy's Tournament as they beat Nazareth by a  score of 83-66, to capture 7th place. Nazareth finished in 8th place, losing 2 close games prior to this one. Naz lost a 2 point game, 83-81, to Geneseo and then dropped another 2 point game, 75-73, to Hobart.

    Keegan Ryan leads the way for the Cardinals with team highs of 19 points and 9 rebounds. Alex Sausville also has 19 points and and 4 assists. Chazz Lott had 13 points and 9 assists.

    Brendan Wind led the Golden Flyers with 14 points.

    That Wendy's tournament always has some interesting scores. I would guess both Fisher and Naz are better than their showings in the tournament. It felt like a big let down when Fisher got handled by RIT and Brockport.

    Trust me, having seen Brockport up close and personal( 3 times last year alone,)  there is no shame losing to those guys ( just ask pg04).  Coach Dunn is loaded this year plus the Golden Eagles are Magicmans prediction to finish 1st in the Sunyac ( top rated conference in the east)!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 11, 2015, 08:31:32 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 30, 2015, 12:24:52 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on November 30, 2015, 12:57:01 AM
    Saxons (4-1) have now won three in a row after handing Hilbert its first loss this season, 91-74, in a game played Saturday afternoon in Hamburg.

    I hope that they slow down by Dec 12th!!   ;)

    From what I've heard, the Saxons are running on all cylinders. I was hoping that Pep might make the journey tomorrow.  Doesn't sound like I'll see him though!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on December 17, 2015, 10:28:18 AM
    The Empire 8 looks as wide open as ever going into conference play and the end of 2015. Fisher looks to be the favorite right now based off of last year but if Tyler Hart is not back for them i think Naz and Hartwick can really give them a run for the E8. Naz will return everybody for conference play after some injuries in the non-conference. Hartwick is struggling a bit right now but I think they are way to talented not be a contender for the league. I think Fisher, Naz, Hartwick will be top 3 by the end of the year in no particular order. I think the race for 4th is between Alfred, Stevens and Ithaca. I feel confident about who the top 3 will be. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3d3d3 on December 17, 2015, 10:54:12 AM
    Ithaca formally announces its move to the Liberty League:
    http://athletics.ithaca.edu/news/2015/12/17/BB_1217151424.aspx
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 17, 2015, 11:28:35 AM
    Quote from: d3d3d3 on December 17, 2015, 10:54:12 AM
    Ithaca formally announces its move to the Liberty League:
    http://athletics.ithaca.edu/news/2015/12/17/BB_1217151424.aspx

    Well I guess its a good thing that the Empire 8 added a 9th school in Houghton. At least Empire 8 will have 8 schools! ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 07, 2016, 09:42:22 AM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on December 17, 2015, 10:28:18 AM
    The Empire 8 looks as wide open as ever going into conference play and the end of 2015. Fisher looks to be the favorite right now based off of last year but if Tyler Hart is not back for them i think Naz and Hartwick can really give them a run for the E8. Naz will return everybody for conference play after some injuries in the non-conference. Hartwick is struggling a bit right now but I think they are way to talented not be a contender for the league. I think Fisher, Naz, Hartwick will be top 3 by the end of the year in no particular order. I think the race for 4th is between Alfred, Stevens and Ithaca. I feel confident about who the top 3 will be.

    Taking a look at the standings after just a smattering of games, looks like you're spot on in your assessment of the Empire 8 Conference for 2015-16. Naz and Hartwick opened with wins, Fisher is unbeaten (hasn't played an E8 game yet), AU, Stevens and Ithaca all have an E8 win.

    +K for your primo prognostications to date!

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on January 07, 2016, 09:51:55 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on January 07, 2016, 09:42:22 AM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on December 17, 2015, 10:28:18 AM
    The Empire 8 looks as wide open as ever going into conference play and the end of 2015. Fisher looks to be the favorite right now based off of last year but if Tyler Hart is not back for them i think Naz and Hartwick can really give them a run for the E8. Naz will return everybody for conference play after some injuries in the non-conference. Hartwick is struggling a bit right now but I think they are way to talented not be a contender for the league. I think Fisher, Naz, Hartwick will be top 3 by the end of the year in no particular order. I think the race for 4th is between Alfred, Stevens and Ithaca. I feel confident about who the top 3 will be.

    Taking a look at the standings after just a smattering of games, looks like you're spot on in your assessment of the Empire 8 Conference for 2015-16. Naz and Hartwick opened with wins, Fisher is unbeaten (hasn't played an E8 game yet), AU, Stevens and Ithaca all have an E8 win.

    +K for your primo prognostications to date!

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Pep, you and mr Cahill got get this board going again!!! Too quiet over here!!! :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 07, 2016, 10:28:21 AM
    Pep is a bit curious about the Ithaca Bombers (7-3) who scored 120 points in 40 minutes to defeat Stevens, 120-110 and two nights later, score half that amount in a 95-60 loss to Nazareth. Both games played at Ben Light Gym on the campus of Ithaca College. Bombers appear bi-polar....when you're hot, you're hot; when you're not, you're not.

    Bombers look to be a contender in the E8; they are the lone team to hand rival Cortland State a defeat on the hardwoods. Will be interesting to see the Bombers play at Galanis Family Arena Saterday afternoon.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: amh63 on January 07, 2016, 11:22:34 AM
    AUPepBand.....wrt to the Bombers...maybe they ran out of gas.  Difficult to play back to back games and win unless one has a deep roster.  Also there is the defense factor.  The Nescac plays many back to back games in conference play and it impacts the results.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 07, 2016, 12:46:46 PM
    Nazareth played really well Tuesday night and handled the Bombers but i really think Ithaca is still in contention to beat a lot of teams and contend for the Empire 8. Hartwick got a high scoring victory against Houghton 98-85 and Alfred over Utica 80-74. Will be interested to see the Naz/Alfred game on friday. I look for Hartwick and Naz to go on a big run to start conference play along with Fisher. I think those teams will be top 3 teams in the league throughout the year but dont rule out Ithaca and Alfred. I think Ithaca is a top that is hot and cold Pep. When they shoot well and play there game they are as good as anyone. I also think they have 4-5 really good players who will all finish the season in double figures Chasin, Bevan, Flanagan and Peter Ezema a freshman from New York City.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2016, 02:18:32 PM
    He's back! :)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 09, 2016, 04:17:31 PM
    Alfred earns a split at home for the weekend, defeating Ithaca 84-81 after suffering a heart-breaking 72-70 loss to Nazareth last night.

    Bombers were in control, taking a 79-74 lead with 4:26 to go but went cold in the final four minutes, hitting only a meaningless two-pointer at the buzzer after AU had taken an 84-79 lead in the last minute. Tyler Seelman led all scorers with 34 points for AU, hitting 8-of-11 from behind the arc.

    AU improves to 2-1 in the Empire 8, while Ithaca falls to 2-2.

    Hartwick, Naz and Fisher all sitting at 2-0, with Naz playing at Elmira early this evening.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 12, 2016, 12:33:34 PM
    Games on tap tonight

    Alfred at St John Fisher I have been impressed with Alfred seeing them this weekend but i think Fisher will have to much firepower and win 77-70

    Elmira at Ithaca I like Ithaca in this game 90-76

    Houghton at Nazareth I like Naz to win 85-66

    Hartwick at Utica... I like Hartwick to win 91-74

    Huge game Thursday Fisher at Naz which seems to be the best two teams in this league.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 14, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
    Quote from: dcahill44 on January 12, 2016, 12:33:34 PM
    Games on tap tonight

    Alfred at St John Fisher I have been impressed with Alfred seeing them this weekend but i think Fisher will have to much firepower and win 77-70

    Elmira at Ithaca I like Ithaca in this game 90-76

    Houghton at Nazareth I like Naz to win 85-66

    Hartwick at Utica... I like Hartwick to win 91-74

    Huge game Thursday Fisher at Naz which seems to be the best two teams in this league.

    Four-for-Four! Good pickin'! Saxons could have buried a cold Cardinals team in the first half but managed only 26 of their own, then the host Cardinals opened the second half with a nice run and took over from there. AU within 52-50 late in the game, but failed to score again in the 60-50 loss.

    Saxons now have the dreaded Hartwick-Stevens weekend trip. AU will need at least a split if they want to compete for an E8 Tourney bid this season.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on January 14, 2016, 01:46:36 PM
    So I have been away from the boards for a few weeks with work and other obligations. I have been following Fisher from a far, but not nearly to the level I typically do. From what I can tell Fisher looks pretty good so far. They lost the 3 games, but I believe Tyler Hart was out for all three, and since he has been back they are on a bit of a streak. A good start to conference play as well as they are off to a 3-0 start.

    I am excited that Fisher seems to be creeping back up to the level of one of the top teams in the league. They were dominant for a stretch in the early 2000's, winning 5 straight conference titles, and have been up and down since. Last year they were solid, and seem to have a solid team again this year.

    I am not sure about the level of play in the league overall but I would say it is Fisher's league to lose at this point. Maybe that is me being a homer, and Naz, Hartwick, IC all look solid (And Fisher hasn't played any of them yet) but that is what my head tells me.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on January 20, 2016, 10:59:34 AM
    I think the top 3 has been pretty much known for a while but i think its a race between Stevens, Ithaca, and Alfred for that 4th spot. Watched Hartwick/Naz yesterday and looks like Hartwick is really talented and think they can beat Fisher at home this weekend. Fisher with a tough road trip this weekend at Hartwick and Stevens so we will see what they are made of going on the road against Hartwick and a dangerous Stevens team.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: with age came? on January 22, 2016, 03:29:26 PM
    Now that Magicman has educated me on my "omnipresent" ability to smite or applaud   I owe some Karma to AU Pep and so I have!! :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 23, 2016, 01:00:54 PM
    Quote from: with age came? on January 22, 2016, 03:29:26 PM
    Now that Magicman has educated me on my "omnipresent" ability to smite or applaud   I owe some Karma to AU Pep and so I have!! :D

    I can give it as well as take it....Plus K back at you...now that you've figured it out.

    Now you need to ask the Guru to reunite your 2 selves to become one again. (and in harmony with the Universe) ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bombers798891 on January 28, 2016, 08:06:17 AM
    I think Ithaca might pull away for the 4 spot.

    5-4 in conference now, two games up in the loss column on everyone but Stevens—who they beat. Stevens also has an extra game left against the big 3. The Bombers also have a more home-heavy 2nd half.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 03, 2016, 02:14:28 PM
    D3hoops column...Around the East has a featured story on the Hartwick Hawks this week that just came out. Here's the link in case anyone is interested:   http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-region/east/2015-16/hartwick-shooting
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 03, 2016, 04:33:54 PM
    For the third consecutive year, Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) will air for 12 hours as the regular season enters the final four weeks. Dave McHugh will chat with coaches, administrators, student-athletes, and others involved in Division III basketball from around the country. Other guests will include those who have Division III roots or appreciate the division and the game along with the student-athletes who play the sport.

    Hoopsville will air from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. (and maybe later) on Thursday, February 4 live from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can see what guests are scheduled, get more information, and watch the show here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/feb4

    You can also read the press release about the show: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/hoopsville-marathon-2016

    Here is the guest list as we speak. All times are Eastern and subject to change. Additional guests to be added if and when necessary:


       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
    TimeGuestSchool
    10:15amConnie TilleySt. Norbert (WBB) - WBCA Center Court
    10:40amJamie PurdyPeidmont (WBB)
    11:00amKeri CarolloUW-Whitewater (WBB) - Nat'l Committee Chair
    11:20amBrent PollariSaint Mary's (Minn.) (WBB)
    11:40amKent MadsenNo. 21 Wheaton (Ill.) (WBB)
    12:00pmRussell LoydRose-Hulman (MBB)
    12:20pmKevin BroderickNazareth (MBB)
    12:40pmJustin ScottArcadia (MBB)
    1:00pmSam HargravesNo. 12 Alma (MBB)
    1:20pmLenny ReichMount Union (SID)
    1:40pmMaureen WebsterClarkson (WBB)
    2:00pmBetsy WitmanYork (Pa.) (WBB)
    2:20pmSara LeeDenison (WBB)
    2:40pmKlay KneuppelWisconsin Lutheran (MBB)
    3:00pmBrian Van HaaftenBuena Vista (MBB) - Nat'l Committee Chair
    3:30pmSydney MossNo. 1 Thomas More (WBB)
    3:45pmAaron RousellBucknell (WBB) - former Chicago coach
    4:00pmTim ShanahanStaten Island (WBB)
    4:20Pat CunninghamTrinity (Texas) (MBB) - NABC Coach's Corner
    4:50pmBubba SmithSewanee (MBB)
    5:15pmBen StrongFormer Guilford All-American
    5:30pmKevin ConnorsESPN SportsCenter Anchor - Ithaca MBB alumnus
    6:00pmKristen DowlingClaremont-Mudd-Scripps (WBB)
    6:20pmAllison ColemanSage (WBB)
    6:40pmLandry KosmalskiSwarthmore (MBB)
    7:00pmDave NilandNo. 23 Penn State-Behrend (MBB)
    7:20pmAaron GallettaLasell (MBB)
    7:40pmJohn BaronGwynedd-Mercy (MBB)
    8:00pm
    8:20pm
    8:40pmMelissa HodgdonWheaton (Mass.) (WBB)
    9:00pmG.P. GromackiNo. 2 Amherst (WBB)
    9:20pmJames Wagner
    9:40pmHAPPY HOURFree-for-all of calls, tweets, and fun!

    We hope to get at least the full show on a podcast, or several podcast, during the on Friday. You can find it here:
    SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
    iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
    Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
    Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville

    And a reminder the Hoopsville Fundraising Project has begun yet again. Please consider helping us cover Division III basketball the way it deserves to be covered. If you can not donate, please don't worry about - we understand. At least share the campaign with anyone you think might be interested: http://igg.me/at/hoopsville-fundraiser/x/6029509

    Also, if you know any advertisers interested in promoting their company or products on the show, send them our way: hoopsville@d3hoops.com

    Thanks!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 10, 2016, 01:54:22 PM
    Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/10/first-2016-regional-rankings-released-today/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 11, 2016, 02:02:10 PM
    Sorry if I may have missed this, but does anyone know what is going on with Chaz Lott at Fisher. He has not been playing for a couple weeks now, but looking at the box scores, he played one minute against Utica on 2/1?

    Hopefully it is not a injury, or at least not a serious one.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 11, 2016, 08:10:08 PM
    I believe it is an injury because i watched the utica game and he got hurt 1 minute into the game. Not sure how long as i have heard multiple reports.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 14, 2016, 08:48:07 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on February 11, 2016, 02:02:10 PM
    Sorry if I may have missed this, but does anyone know what is going on with Chaz Lott at Fisher. He has not been playing for a couple weeks now, but looking at the box scores, he played one minute against Utica on 2/1?

    Hopefully it is not a injury, or at least not a serious one.

    Pep was watching the Fisher at Alfred game online on Wednesday, Jan. 27 and remember Chaz Lott went down hard and appeared to have hurt his knee. He was on the floor for a good two or three minutes. He didn't play the rest of the way. If Pep is correct and it IS a knee injury, those things can be pesty and may require surgery. And knowing how competitive Lott is, he likely attempted to play on it, which would explain just a few minutes in a game.

    Pep was slowed by a knee injury about 15 years ago...it buckled when Pep fell off the back of a bus and landed on one leg. Doctor said surgery was needed. Pep said no. Doctor said "no more basketball." Pep said "oh yes I will." Doctor said, "Then get a knee brace." Pep wore a knee brace for the next year or so...but forgot it one day and has played without it ever since.

    Best of luck to Lott...he's a real competitor!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 20, 2016, 09:05:28 PM
    The Empire 8 Conference is set as St. John Fisher earns the #1 seed in the conference tournament and will host the semifinals next Friday February 26th.

    #4 Stevens Tech  at #1 St. John Fisher    6:00 PM

    #3 Hartwick  vs #2 Nazareth                    8:00 PM

    Championship game Saturday February 27th at St. John Fisher at 4:00 PM
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on February 23, 2016, 03:39:35 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 20, 2016, 09:05:28 PM
    The Empire 8 Conference is set as St. John Fisher earns the #1 seed in the conference tournament and will host the semifinals next Friday February 26th.

    #4 Stevens Tech  at #1 St. John Fisher    6:00 PM

    #3 Hartwick  vs #2 Nazareth                    8:00 PM

    Championship game Saturday February 27th at St. John Fisher at 4:00 PM

    Should be a good tournament and I could see any one of the four teams winning it. Fisher has looked good at home, but Stevens beat them and played them right down to the wire this year. That should be a tough game, but I will take Fisher in another tight one. The Hartwick/Naz game could be a lot of fun, but I am leaning toward Naz since they should have some fans in the stands to bring some energy.

    A Naz/Fisher championship would be a lot of fun. Several years ago they played at Fisher in the conference tournament championship and it was a great game. I would love to get up to that game if that actually happens. I'll take Fisher again in a tight one, but it will be really tough to beat Naz 3 times in a season. Should be a lot of fun to watch it all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2016, 02:17:23 PM
    Final public regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/24/third-ncaa-regional-ranking/
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: dcahill44 on February 25, 2016, 12:22:49 PM
    Empire 8 2015-16 Men's Basketball All-Conference Awards

    Player of the Year: Mitch Ford, Nazareth College

    Rookie of the Year: Tyler Stenglein, Nazareth College

    Co-Coaching Staff of the Year: Nazareth College & St. John Fisher College
    First Team
    Trevor Norton Hartwick G Sr. Mullica Hill, NJ/Bishop Eustace Prep
    Marc Chasin Ithaca G So. Coral Gables, FL/Gulliver
    Mitch Ford Nazareth F Sr. Victor, NY/Victor
    Tyler Hart St. John Fisher G Sr. East Greenbush, NY/Columbia
    Keegan Ryan St. John Fisher F/C Jr. Plattsburgh, NY/Beekmantown

    Second Team
    Tyler Seelman Alfred G Jr. Lorton, VA/Hayfield Secondary
    Matt Wilson Hartwick C Sr. Shelton, CT/Westminster
    Maurice Mills Nazareth F Sr. Utica, NY/Proctor
    Tyler Stenglein Nazareth G So. Rochester, NY/Irondequoit
    Evan Klimchak Stevens G Jr. Readington, NJ/Hunterdon

    Honorable Mention (minimum three votes)

    Gino Leonardi Elmira G Sr. Spencer, NY/Spencer – Van Etten
    Joey Lufkin Hartwick G Jr. Argyle, NY/Argyle Central
    Robert Tutein Utica G Sr. Nanuet, NY/Nanuet

    Sportsman of the Year for each team

    Nigel Herbert Alfred G Jr. Hillsborough, NJ/Hillsborough
    Justin Henderson Elmira G Sr. Staten Island, NY/St. Joseph by the Sea
    Glenn Gavan Hartwick G Sr. Newton, NJ/Pope John XXII
    Tyler McQuaid Houghton C Sr. Lowman, NY/Twin Tiers Christian Academy
    Matt Flood Ithaca G Fr. Cresskill, NJ/Cresskill
    Tyler Stenglein Nazareth G So. Rochester, NY/Irondequoit
    Alex Sausville St. John Fisher G So. Schenectady, NY/Scotia-Glenville
    Alex Lorenz Stevens F Sr. Point Pleasant, NJ/Point Pleasant Borough
    Robert Tutein Utica G Sr. Nanuet, NY/Nanuet

    Great to see Nazareth College representing. Tremendous job by the coaching staff to get co staff of the year. Mitch Ford who has had an all american type year and should be region player of the year. Tyler Stenglein with a tremendous year as a Freshman. Along with Maurice and Tyler being 2nd team all league, and Mitch first team. Great year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AndOne on February 27, 2016, 02:18:39 PM
    Can anyone venture a guess about the possibility of Hartwick being regionally ranked if they should win tonight? Thanks.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: pg04 on February 27, 2016, 02:33:39 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on February 27, 2016, 02:18:39 PM
    Can anyone venture a guess about the possibility of Hartwick being regionally ranked if they should win tonight? Thanks.

    I am not sure. One of the posters here does a good job of computing the rankings and had Hartwick as 11th after last night ( http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/ ). So I am not sure the one win would boost them in to the top 6. But I suppose it could given those ahead of them not playing anymore/ lost early in tourneys. In the end, though, if Hartwick wins they get into the tourney anyway regardless of their standing.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 29, 2016, 01:28:41 AM
    Hartwick didn't get regionally ranked... and really didn't have a chance to be regionally ranked.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 29, 2016, 03:16:46 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on February 27, 2016, 02:18:39 PM
    Can anyone venture a guess about the possibility of Hartwick being regionally ranked if they should win tonight? Thanks.

    Hoping to get North Central a little boost from that win over Hartwick, AndOne? Unfortunately for you, Hartwick won't make the rankings. But then North Central doesn't have to worry, they'll get a bid and won't need that win over another regional ranked opponent. :D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 07, 2016, 01:50:34 PM
    I'm asking all the people that visit this board to take the time to help get the East Region another player in the All Star game that takes place during the Final Four weekend in Salem Virginia. Go to this link and cast your ballot for Kyle Richardson from Plattsburgh State:

      http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2016/03/nabc-all-star-voting

    You may have to click the refresh button if the vote totals already show up. So if they are showing a percentage for each player click refresh. 

    You can vote once for each browser you have, so if you have 2 computers vote on each of them. We can only vote from now until noon on Wednesday, soDON'T wait and DO spread the news to your friends.
    We need all the help we can muster to get Kyle to Virginia.

    You don't have to be a registered user of the D3hoops website. Just pull up the page go to the link and cast your ballot. So get your wives, girl friends, mistresses, sons, daughters, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents and every friend you have, or ever did have, to jump online and vote as well. Kyle will need all the help he can get because the other regions have more schools than our region does.

    Thanks for your help. 8-) 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: gordonmann on September 19, 2016, 01:33:05 PM
    This is a quiet board, but just in case anyone is lurking, we have all the Empire men's and women's basketball schedules posted for next season except for St. John Fisher. If you click on the team pages, they will still default to last season for a little while. But you can get next season's schedules by switching the dates at the end of the URL.

    http://d3hoops.com/teams/Hartwick/Men/2016-17/index
    http://d3hoops.com/teams/Stevens/Women/2016-17/index
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on October 11, 2016, 01:18:16 PM
    Quote from: gordonmann on September 19, 2016, 01:33:05 PM
    This is a quiet board, but just in case anyone is lurking, we have all the Empire men's and women's basketball schedules posted for next season except for St. John Fisher. If you click on the team pages, they will still default to last season for a little while. But you can get next season's schedules by switching the dates at the end of the URL.

    http://d3hoops.com/teams/Hartwick/Men/2016-17/index
    http://d3hoops.com/teams/Stevens/Women/2016-17/index

    Fisher has posted their schedule to the webpage, with a few interesting OOC games. York College, Hobart (not sure the last time Fisher played them), and the College of Wooster highlight the early season slate. Also a game against SUNY Cortland has my personal interest.

    I don't see the Wendy's College Classic anywhere on the schedule. Has that been done away with finally?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on October 14, 2016, 05:42:32 AM
    Quote from: sjfcards on October 11, 2016, 01:18:16 PM
    I don't see the Wendy's College Classic anywhere on the schedule. Has that been done away with finally?

    Yes the Wendy's Classic has been retired for good.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 14, 2016, 10:31:52 AM
    The event, but many of the DIII teams are still playing each other I thought in a tournament format... but the idea of all those teams playing each other is gone. It was causing problems for Roberts Wesleyan more so than the DIII teams. We all know that in DIII if you play a non-Division III team you are basically wasting the game when it comes to regional rankings, at-large changes, even hosting opportunities. It is like you never played the game. The exact same thing is true, but in a much bigger way, for Roberts Wesleyan. They are guarunteed three games that end up not counting for them at the end of the season. That hurts them in regional rankings and at-large chances. As great a tournament as it was for the region and the city, it no longer works in the current basketball world.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on October 14, 2016, 10:28:42 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 14, 2016, 10:31:52 AM
    The event, but many of the DIII teams are still playing each other I thought in a tournament format... but the idea of all those teams playing each other is gone. It was causing problems for Roberts Wesleyan more so than the DIII teams. We all know that in DIII if you play a non-Division III team you are basically wasting the game when it comes to regional rankings, at-large changes, even hosting opportunities. It is like you never played the game. The exact same thing is true, but in a much bigger way, for Roberts Wesleyan. They are guarunteed three games that end up not counting for them at the end of the season. That hurts them in regional rankings and at-large chances. As great a tournament as it was for the region and the city, it no longer works in the current basketball world.

    St. John Fisher, RIT, Rochester and Nazareth will take part in a tournament on December 2nd and 3rd at Nazareth. It's called "Mark's Pizzeria Crosstown Shootout". Nazareth will be hosting all 4 games. The pairings are as follows:

    12-2-16

    Fisher vs Rochester at 6 PM
    RIT vs Nazareth at 8 PM

    12-3-16

    Fisher vs RIT at 6 PM
    Rochester vs Nazareth at 8 PM



    The 2 SUNYAC schools are each playing one of the teams from the former Wendy's tournament. Brockport State will play Hobart on 12-6 -16 at Hobart. They won't play any other team from the Wendy's tournament other than conference foe Geneseo State.

    On that same day 12-6 Geneseo State will play Rochester at the Palestra in Rochester. That is the only school the Knights will play from the Wendy's tournament, aside from the 2 meetings with Brockport.

    Rochester in addition to playing Geneseo and the 2 E8 schools in early December in the Crosstown Tournament will also have a home game against Hobart on 11-22-16 plus an away game at RIT on 1-3-17. So the Yellowjackets will have 5 of their 11 non-conference games against former Wendy's tournament participants. The only teams they missed are Brockport and Roberts Wesleyan.

    RIT plays Naz and Fisher in the Crosstown tournament, Rochester as mentioned above and conference foe Hobart twice.

    St. John Fisher in addition to the 2 games in the Crosstown Tournament against the Rochester schools will also play a home game against Hobart on 11-19 and of course the 2 regular season matchups against conference opponent Nazareth.

    Hobart ends up with the above mentioned games against Fisher, Rochester, Brockport, and 2 regular season games against fellow Liberty League member RIT.

    Nazareth, like Fisher, plays the 2 Rochester teams in the Crosstown Tournament and the 2 regular season games against the Cardinals.

    Roberts Wesleyan is the only former Wendy's participant that will not be playing any of the DIII schools and as Dave mentioned this will probably be to their benefit since those 3 games in past years could hurt them, since they didn't count. They also didn't help the D3 teams they played.         
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 01, 2016, 08:50:56 AM
    Pre season poll out and ZERO representation from the E8
    Not getting a single vote.
    Seems odd to me that a conference that gets an AQ doesnt have a team that would be mentioned in the top 35
    Odd
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 01, 2016, 08:59:39 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 01, 2016, 08:50:56 AM
    Pre season poll out and ZERO representation from the E8
    Not getting a single vote.
    Seems odd to me that a conference that gets an AQ doesnt have a team that would be mentioned in the top 35
    Odd

    Every conference gets an AQ; lots of conferences don't have any votes.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 01, 2016, 09:03:25 AM
    Understood.
    Just was a head scratcher of a poll.
    Not that its wrong either.
    Just worth noting that the E8 was missing.....
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 01, 2016, 08:43:01 PM
    Who exactly should we voters be considering from the E8 and why? The only team I had on my radar for my ballot was St. John Fisher, but I couldn't make the argument for a squad that missed the NCAA tournament last season.

    And as Ryan indicated, there are 43 conferences with AQs, by the logic that conferences with AQs should get votes in the Top 25 indicates that conferences like the NEAC, IIAC, Skyline, CCC, GNAC, etc. should get votes even though they traditionally don't have teams that good (occasionally, yes).
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2016, 09:43:49 AM
    Had my eye on the alma mater Dave.
    Only graduate 2 and have a solid core back.
    From a team that I thought had a chance to get an at large bid last year.
    Hell-They dont lose to 'Wick and they were in anyway.

    That leads me to another question.
    With conference tourneys determining the AQ- what is the value of a stellar regular season if you have a strong one with  enough wins to get into the tourney.

    in d 1 Syracuse seemed for years to have confidence in having a strong season and let up (or so it seemed ) in certain big east tourneys before the big dance.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 02, 2016, 12:46:27 PM
    The value of the regular season is ... invaluable. If you can't win the AQ, you need to position yourself as best as possible for one of the 21 (remember, full 64-team field this year for men) at-large bids. If you don't have a good regular season or have a weak schedule, you aren't going to be selected.

    It isn't that easy. And don't use D1 as your barometer. For those who don't know, D1 men's and women's basketball have a different selection process than almost every other NCAA tournament field in all three divisions (if they had the same selection criteria, the men wouldn't have a 68-team field and the women's wouldn't have a 64-team field).

    Looking at Fisher last year, losses to Rochester Tech and Brockport put them behind the eight-ball for the season and selection criteria before they were out of the first five games of the season. (My favorite saying: a game on November 15th means just as much as a game on February 15th). Then the loss to Oneonta in their seventh game put them in worse trouble with the fact they would have to run through the conference undefeated to be in a secure spot. Then two losses to Hartwick and a loss to Stevens (the second loss to Hartwick putting them in an at-large situation) really made it difficult especially from all already weak East Region outside of the SUNYAC which had a bit of a stranglehold on the regional rankings.

    They also had some unlucky factors like their game against Dickinson not ending up being as strong on paper with Dickinson struggling for most of the season. But outside of the Dickinson and DeSales games, Fisher's out of conference schedule really wasn't the strongest and that can put a lot of pressure on a team to do well in their out of conference, avoid unnecessary losses in the conference schedule, and win the AQ.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2016, 01:04:59 PM
    Certainly appreciate the insight Dave!

    Cheers to a new season!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 04, 2016, 12:03:35 AM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 02, 2016, 12:46:27 PM
    The value of the regular season is ... invaluable. If you can't win the AQ, you need to position yourself as best as possible for one of the 21 (remember, full 64-team field this year for men) at-large bids. If you don't have a good regular season or have a weak schedule, you aren't going to be selected.

    It isn't that easy. And don't use D1 as your barometer. For those who don't know, D1 men's and women's basketball have a different selection process than almost every other NCAA tournament field in all three divisions (if they had the same selection criteria, the men wouldn't have a 68-team field and the women's wouldn't have a 64-team field).

    Looking at Fisher last year, losses to Rochester Tech and Brockport put them behind the eight-ball for the season and selection criteria before they were out of the first five games of the season. (My favorite saying: a game on November 15th means just as much as a game on February 15th). Then the loss to Oneonta in their seventh game put them in worse trouble with the fact they would have to run through the conference undefeated to be in a secure spot. Then two losses to Hartwick and a loss to Stevens (the second loss to Hartwick putting them in an at-large situation) really made it difficult especially from all already weak East Region outside of the SUNYAC which had a bit of a stranglehold on the regional rankings.

    They also had some unlucky factors like their game against Dickinson not ending up being as strong on paper with Dickinson struggling for most of the season. But outside of the Dickinson and DeSales games, Fisher's out of conference schedule really wasn't the strongest and that can put a lot of pressure on a team to do well in their out of conference, avoid unnecessary losses in the conference schedule, and win the AQ.

    Plus k Dave (I'll  keep my SUNYAC comments/thoughts to myself, for the time being  :-[ ). It's obvious that you do your homework!  ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on November 04, 2016, 03:03:53 AM
    D3hoops has come out with their preseason Men's All-America Team. 3 players from the East Region have made the list.

    Brian Sortino, Oswego State guard, has been named to the 2nd team.

    Keegan Ryan, St John Fisher forward, has been named to the 2nd team.

    Sam Borst-Smith, Rochester University guard, has been named to the 4th team.

    Here's a link to the complete list of players chosen:
    http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/preseason-2017
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 04, 2016, 08:32:44 AM
    Congrats to Keegan....HE will be a horse this year!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 13, 2016, 04:45:15 PM
    Believe it not, the 2016-17 basketball season is just days away. But the season can't start without Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) hitting the air!

    Tune in tonight starting at 7pm as Dave talks to the two preseason numbers one teams, finds out how the offseason went for the two defending national championships, and touches bases with the men's and women's basketball committee chairs.

    Guests include:
    - Kevin Vande Streek, men's basketball committee chair and head coach for Calvin
    - Bobbi Morgan, women's basketball committee chair and head coach for Haverford
    - John Tauer, head coach for No. 10 St. Thomas men
    - Dave Hixon, head coach for No. 1 Amherst men
    - Jeff Hans, head coach for No. 4 Thomas More women
    - Carla Berube, head coach for No. 1 Tufts women

    You can watch the show here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/nov13

    You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
    SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
    iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
    Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
    Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 15, 2016, 07:56:25 AM
    Fisher gets started tonight against SUNY Poly. I am interested to see how Fisher deals with the loss of Chaz Lott and Tyler Hart. We know what we have with Ryan down low, and other guys who played big minutes last year (Tyler English, Zach Ottaway, Alex Sausville), but those two did a lot of scoring last year. Especially Hart. Will be interesting to see who will run the point, as that job was Lott's for the last 4 years until he got hurt last year.

    Fisher was a pretty solid team last year that has a lot of key guys back. Hopefully they get off to a good start this week.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2016, 08:07:48 AM
    Will be very interesting to see how the play out of the gate cards.
    They have a good core- but will certainly miss Lott and Hart!

    Beat poly!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 15, 2016, 09:00:24 PM
    A nice solid start for Fisher tonight as they drop 100 on SUNY Poly and win by 20+. Fisher took a few minutes to get the offense going, but they cruised from there. Pretty impressive start for the Cards.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 21, 2016, 08:06:20 AM
    Solid win over Hobart for Fisher.
    Gutty one- coming from behind.
    Here is hoping that a great season is in store!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: sjfcards on November 23, 2016, 07:42:08 AM
    Fisher improved their record to 3-0 last night with another nice win over a decent team, beating SUNY Oneonta 80-75. Fisher was up big early, and held on as Oneonta made a push in the second half.

    Fisher's next game will be a real test taking on the College of Wooster (#7) this Sunday.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2016, 06:28:44 PM
    Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) returns to the air tonight - shortly - at 7pm ET! Join us as Dave McHugh takes a look at yet another crazy start to the Division III basketball season especially on the men's side. Dave will also bring back interviews conducted at this year's #Hoopsville Classic. There will also be plenty of time to answer your questions, so join us!

    Guests include (recorded at Hoopsville Classic):
    - Josh Merkel, Randolph-Macon men's coach
    - Joe Burke, Skidmore men's coach
    - Rick Ferry, Albright men's coach

    Show hits the air at 7:00 PM ET here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/nov27 #d3h.

    You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
    SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
    iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
    Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
    Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: d3d3d3 on November 27, 2016, 07:27:41 PM
    Dave - Skidmore is in the Liberty League
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2016, 08:19:37 PM
    Yep - wanted to share in both rooms actually for varying reasons since the conversation about the changes in the Liberty have affected the E8 - just forgot to move on to the Liberty room and share it there. Sorry for the confusion.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 05, 2017, 09:12:56 AM
    Quote from: magicman on December 08, 2016, 04:50:19 AM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on December 04, 2016, 10:55:08 PM
    Having seen Alfred up close and personal last Tuesday, I have no doubt that they will finish in the top 4 of Empire 8. A deep and talented team (IMHO) that hasn't gotten too much pub (as of yet) on these E8 boards. Probably because the football team has been kickin butt!   ;)

    I think you're on the wrong street. The E8 board is a few blocks on the other side of town. ;D This is the LL board.

    Pep reporting in here. Just got back from the football game.....is it basketball season already? Gosh, there used to be a week or so respite between the sports!

    Since a very tough Buffalo State team drilled the Saxons at Galanis Arena back in November, snapping a three game win streak, AU went into a depression of sorts and lost four straight including an 87-65 smackdown to a very talented Cal Lutheran team in Thousand Oaks, CA and a not-so-great Luther College team in the Cal Lutheran Tourney consolation.

    Good news is that after getting back on the ground in New York, the Saxons shot the lights out at Ben Light Gym en route to a 118-79 win over host Ithaca in their E8 opener. AU shot 61% from the field, better than 50% from behind the arc on 14-of-27 shooting with Tyler Seelman leading all scorers with 32.

    This weekend will be a double whammy for the Saxons, who host Naz Friday night and Fisher Saturday afternoon. If AU can keep up the hot shooting, perhaps Bengalsrule's remarks warrrant some merit. Time will tell.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 06, 2017, 10:12:22 PM
    Saxons shoot 70% from the field in the first half to take a commanding 55-33 halftime lead over Nazareth, then hold on for an 88-69 win at Galanis Arena tonight. AU goes to 2-0 in E8, Naz is 0-1. AU finishes shooting 54% from the field for the game, while the Golden Flyers shot a paltry 30% from the field, 1-of-19 from behind the arc. Naz was 24-of-35 from the free throw line (68%) while AU was 7-of-9.

    Pep is thinking the Saxons might have taken a dip in the Pacific Ocean at Malibu and washed the stink off 'em when they were in Thousand Oaks last week because they've put together back-to-back impressive performances and are looking like a team. Keep up the good work, Saxons!

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 08, 2017, 08:36:43 AM
    Alex Sausville hits an NBA-range trey with 4.5 seconds remaining to lift Fisher to a hard-fought 64-61 E8 win at Galanis Family Arena. This game was tied at 55 with six minutes and change, then AU went on a spurt to take a 59-55 lead, only to have the Cardinals hit four straight free throws to tie it up at 59. A Sausville layup dropped for a 61-59 Cardinal lead, answered by a pair of free throws by Tyler Seelman with 27 ticks left.

    The Cardinals wisely intentionally fouled a Saxon at midcourt and both free throws were missed and that was it. AU drops to 2-1 in E8 play while Fisher goes to 2-0.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2017, 06:44:08 PM
    The Division III season has officially entered "Crunch Time." Regular season schedules are wrapping up, conference tournaments are about to begin, teams are jockeying for conference position or trying to win home-court advantage. And it is all happening the uncertainty of whether NCAA tournament berths are available for a lot of teams.

    On Thursday night's Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave McHugh not only takes another look at this week's Regional Rankings, but also tries to read the tea leaves. He also chats with four teams that all still have something to play for. Whether it is to better position themselves in the eyes of the NCAA committees or just to turn more heads in their conference tournament, these teams are still pushing to continue their seasons.


    Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio starting at 7:00 PM ET LIVE. You can watch the show on the official show page here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/feb16 ... or you can watch the live simulcast on Facebook Live (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville). If you miss the show, you can catch-up on Demand or listen to the podcasts (which will be uploaded at the conclusion of the show).

    A reminder the Thursday edition of Hoopsville primarily covers the East, Mid-Atlantic, Great Lakes, and West regions, but we will answer any questions about all of Division III throughout the show. You can also send your questions to the show and have them featured on the Hoopsville Mailbag segment. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com.

    And please consider helping Hoopsville stay on the air like you might help your public television station. The annual fundraising campaign has less than three weeks remaining, but we are no where close to reaching our goal. Click here for more information: Hoopsville Fundraising Page (https://igg.me/at/hoopsville-fundraiser-2017/x/6029509)

    Guests include (in order of appearance):
    - Michael Meek, No. 24 George Fox women's coach
    - Katherine Bixby, Dickinson women's coach
    - Greg Mitchell, No. 16 Hope men's coach
    - Rob Kornaker, St. John Fisher men's coach

    You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
    SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
    iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
    Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
    Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
    Fundraiser: https://igg.me/at/hoopsville-fundraiser-2017

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D710%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3Dlhl4x%2F4z02xle8ples8o79.jpg&hash=713fd03ae5aa5b62527b16c7f48ebea9d8407d06)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on October 03, 2017, 09:49:23 AM
    What the hell happened on East ave?
    Rob K steps down?
    Anybody have scoop?
    this is crazy!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 03, 2017, 11:26:45 AM
    From what I have learned... he had been thinking about retiring for quite awhile. His son is a freshman at Middlebury and will be playing for the Panthers. Apparently, his wife has a solid career and he doesn't need to work - from everything I've learned. He has been debating about when to step down for awhile. I was told he brought his assistant in to take over and resigning now - that this time of the year - is a perfect way to make sure your assistant at least gets one year in control to prove himself.

    I was surprised until I got more info and now I kind of understand it. The women's job change is more surprising than this one. LOL
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on October 03, 2017, 01:00:04 PM
    Wow
    that is very interesting and very good for him on all sides.
    Congrats to Rob and his family and best of luck to the new regime at Fisher- may they be as successful as the old
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 03, 2017, 03:44:40 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 03, 2017, 11:26:45 AM
    From what I have learned... he had been thinking about retiring for quite awhile. His son is a freshman at Middlebury and will be playing for the Panthers. Apparently, his wife has a solid career and he doesn't need to work - from everything I've learned. He has been debating about when to step down for awhile. I was told he brought his assistant in to take over and resigning now - that this time of the year - is a perfect way to make sure your assistant at least gets one year in control to prove himself.

    I was surprised until I got more info and now I kind of understand it. The women's job change is more surprising than this one. LOL

    I talked to Coach Kornaker. It is all true. He felt it was the right time. Nothing amiss at all. He would like to see his son play more often and this allows that to happen. I am told by a few people his assistant, Mike Grosodonia will be named head coach on Wednesday - I am unsure if he will have a interim tag or not.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on October 03, 2017, 04:45:47 PM
    Dave
    Thank you for your fast and insightful research on this.
    I wish (as do all Fisher Alums) Rob and his family all the best-
    He left the program a much better place than when he got it.
    Cheers coach!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2017, 08:32:59 AM
    Congrats to the alma mater on getting a Number 19 preseason ranking!!!
    Go CARDS!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 07, 2017, 10:52:56 AM
    *tap tap*

    this thing on?

    No chatter for Bball?

    Everyone still in FB mode?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 12, 2017, 10:56:24 AM
    Chirp chirp
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 13, 2017, 08:05:52 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 12, 2017, 10:56:24 AM
    Chirp chirp

    This guy i like!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bartman on November 13, 2017, 08:55:53 AM
    So, heard SJF is No.19...congrats.....Hobart is the motivated underdog this Wednesday with 4 of 5 starters back from last year
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 13, 2017, 09:09:14 AM
    Hey Bartman!
    I guess we cant like each other until after Wed. eve?

    ::)

    Good luck to the Statesmen---Dont know what to expect from the alma mater.
    If its a fix that keeps me from thinking about football that is a great thing!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 13, 2017, 12:17:48 PM
    Quote from: Bartman on November 13, 2017, 08:55:53 AM
    So, heard SJF is No.19...congrats.....Hobart is the motivated underdog this Wednesday with 4 of 5 starters back from last year

    So is it the Keegan Ryan-less SJF and everyone else? Obviously, I'm not real familiar with the conference.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 13, 2017, 12:26:33 PM
    Fisher indeed returns 4 of the 5 starters minus Keegan.
    Looks to have solid perimeter shooting but will miss KRs size and presence on the boards.
    Other teams in the league- unsure- traditional foes could pose a threat -Naz, Stevens, wick.
    Havent done homework on who graduated and who is returning on those squads.
    Will be an interesting season!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on November 13, 2017, 12:41:54 PM
    11/15 Game of the Night - SJF at Hobart. Projected champs of both upstate leagues go at it on opening night.

    Also check out - Stevens at NJCU. Gothic Knights always a top tier NJAC squad.

    Others: Hartwick at Union has been a better matchup in previous years, but graduation losses on both sides. Elmira-Keuka, Houghton-Wells, Naz-Medaille are probably only watchable for the truly hardcore among us.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 13, 2017, 12:47:47 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 13, 2017, 12:41:54 PM
    11/15 Game of the Night - SJF at Hobart. Projected champs of both upstate leagues go at it on opening night.

    Also check out - Stevens at NJCU. Gothic Knights always a top tier NJAC squad.

    Others: Hartwick at Union has been a better matchup in previous years, but graduation losses on both sides. Elmira-Keuka, Houghton-Wells, Naz-Medaille are probably only watchable for the truly hardcore among us.

    Yuck,
    Id rather watch darts.....
    Bowling?

    ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 15, 2017, 03:06:32 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 13, 2017, 12:47:47 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 13, 2017, 12:41:54 PM
    11/15 Game of the Night - SJF at Hobart. Projected champs of both upstate leagues go at it on opening night.

    Also check out - Stevens at NJCU. Gothic Knights always a top tier NJAC squad.

    Others: Hartwick at Union has been a better matchup in previous years, but graduation losses on both sides. Elmira-Keuka, Houghton-Wells, Naz-Medaille are probably only watchable for the truly hardcore among us.

    Yuck,
    Id rather watch darts.....
    Bowling?

    ;D

    I CANT BOWL! So Ill be at Medaille tonight to see that game ! ;)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2017, 03:45:16 PM
    You are a gamer Bengalsrule
    enjoy!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 15, 2017, 03:53:08 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2017, 03:45:16 PM
    You are a gamer Bengalsrule
    enjoy!

    Yessir...plus my BENGALS visit Naz next Tuesday!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2017, 03:56:45 PM
    Ill miss the Hobart- Fisher game but will check in periodically online to check scores....should be a good one!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bartman on November 15, 2017, 06:14:24 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2017, 03:56:45 PM
    Ill miss the Hobart- Fisher game but will check in periodically online to check scores....should be a good one!
    91....hopefully the basketball season will yield NCAAs berths for these teams....football was a bummer this year, even had to turn to soccer at the end
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bartman on November 15, 2017, 07:49:53 PM
    Hobart up 48-32 at the half
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 16, 2017, 08:13:27 AM
    Congrats Bartman,
    Either Bart is really good, Fisher is down, or something in the middle, but you guys waxed us.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bartman on November 16, 2017, 10:48:00 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 16, 2017, 08:13:27 AM
    Congrats Bartman,
    Either Bart is really good, Fisher is down, or something in the middle, but you guys waxed us.
    91,
       It was more in the middle .......Hobart can play up tempo, no problem, hit 3's (best shooter was only 1-9, but everyone else shot well), have enough bigs to compete and coach recruited some Freshman that made big contributions right away.....this may be the deepest team Hobart has every had ... better than having five 38 minute wonders and a couple of guys specializing in giving fouls at the end of a tight game...I think Fisher was kinda surprised by Hobart's speed,maybe believed their #19 ranking, shot poorly to start ,got behind and couldn't claw all the way back......and both teams had 20+ turnovers....It was evident that Fisher is a very talented team and it will be a much better season than the gridiron, for sure...good luck
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 16, 2017, 10:49:40 AM
    Quote from: Bartman on November 16, 2017, 10:48:00 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 16, 2017, 08:13:27 AM
    Congrats Bartman,
    Either Bart is really good, Fisher is down, or something in the middle, but you guys waxed us.
    91,
       It was more in the middle .......Hobart can play up tempo, no problem, hit 3's (best shooter was only 1-9, but everyone else shot well), have enough bigs to compete and coach recruited some Freshman that made big contributions right away.....this may be the deepest team Hobart has every had ... better than having five 38 minute wonders and a couple of guys specializing in giving fouls at the end of a tight game...I think Fisher was kinda surprised by Hobart's speed,maybe believed their #19 ranking, shot poorly to start ,got behind and couldn't claw all the way back......and both teams had 20+ turnovers....It was evident that Fisher is a very talented team and it will be a much better season than the gridiron, for sure...good luck

    Killing me
    *face palm
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bartman on November 16, 2017, 03:27:15 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 16, 2017, 10:49:40 AM
    Quote from: Bartman on November 16, 2017, 10:48:00 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 16, 2017, 08:13:27 AM
    Congrats Bartman,
    Either Bart is really good, Fisher is down, or something in the middle, but you guys waxed us.
    91,
       It was more in the middle .......Hobart can play up tempo, no problem, hit 3's (best shooter was only 1-9, but everyone else shot well), have enough bigs to compete and coach recruited some Freshman that made big contributions right away.....this may be the deepest team Hobart has every had ... better than having five 38 minute wonders and a couple of guys specializing in giving fouls at the end of a tight game...I think Fisher was kinda surprised by Hobart's speed,maybe believed their #19 ranking, shot poorly to start ,got behind and couldn't claw all the way back......and both teams had 20+ turnovers....It was evident that Fisher is a very talented team and it will be a much better season than the gridiron, for sure...good luck

    Killing me
    *face palm
    Thoughtless, unintended cruelty...my apologies
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 16, 2017, 03:30:11 PM
    I actually laughed....No apologies needed......................The coaching staff on the other hand................ >:(
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bartman on November 16, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
    So Dan Masino, Freshman Guard scores 19 against Fisher and makes some timely steals....his Father Mike , Hobart 88, is in the Hobart Hall of Fame and has the single season scoring record and his grandfather , Al Masino, was a professional player in his day....not sure Hobart would have gotten this Fairport talent unless his Dad was a Hobart grad....BTW, his Dad's first game senior year was against Fisher, and Dad's team lost...the kid has an edge over the old man already...Dan is wearing Mike's #20...kinda cool
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 16, 2017, 11:31:41 PM

    I'm out in Ohio for the Great Lakes Invitational, so I'll get to see SJF twice this weekend.  There's a lot of transition there, so I'm not surprised if there's a slow start.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 16, 2017, 11:45:16 PM
    Quote from: Bartman on November 16, 2017, 10:51:27 PM
    So Dan Masino, Freshman Guard scores 19 against Fisher and makes some timely steals....his Father Mike , Hobart 88, is in the Hobart Hall of Fame and has the single season scoring record and his grandfather , Al Masino, was a professional player in his day....not sure Hobart would have gotten this Fairport talent unless his Dad was a Hobart grad....BTW, his Dad's first game senior year was against Fisher, and Dad's team lost...the kid has an edge over the old man already...Dan is wearing Mike's #20...kinda cool

    Man, I just read his bio, that guy was All-World...in high school. Hobart has such a young team and he started and played 32 minutes. Not sure if that will hold up, but he did that against a ranked team. I added him to my Keeper League, so I hope it wasn't a one-hit (game) wonder!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2017, 08:14:24 AM
    Hoops fan,
    Keep the old alumni up to speed on how Fisher looks against some good competition!
    And yes transition is a good word.  Good core of guys but missing Rob and Keegan for sure!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 18, 2017, 05:53:15 PM

    So, they won the first game while only playing one decent half.  They lost the second, but I thought they played better throughout.  The team is good and deep, but they're going to struggle if a team with size had the speed to run with them.  Hope was willing to play fast and had a good inside-outside game working.

    I think Fisher is really strong, better than I expected.  I'll leave this weekend with very high expectations for their season.  Just by the way they play, there may be some bad losses, but I think it's a team no one will want to face.  Matchup problems all over the place and they'll just run you to death and be really physical.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 20, 2017, 08:30:25 AM
    Thank you for the insight!
    Hoping that they rebound and fare better as the season goes on!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 20, 2017, 11:40:10 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 20, 2017, 08:30:25 AM
    Thank you for the insight!
    Hoping that they rebound and fare better as the season goes on!

    It's a good team and they're still down a few injuries, right?  I didn't see Sausville at all.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 21, 2017, 08:31:20 AM
    Unsure of that situation- just want him back on the court!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 22, 2017, 09:51:40 AM
    Solid win for the Cards last eve over a traditional power Wooster.
    Hung a big number on them.
    Looking like the 2 early season losses are to legit teams- Hobart who continues to impress with a good win against Rochester and Hope - who is playing good ball as well.

    Enjoy the turkey boys and then lets get at it!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 27, 2017, 08:40:04 AM
    Win over Wooster looks more impressive now that the Scots rebounded to beat #4 Hanover the other night.  Hoping that the Cards build upon this one and dont look past Cortland
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on November 29, 2017, 09:01:56 PM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 27, 2017, 08:40:04 AM
    Win over Wooster looks more impressive now that the Scots rebounded to beat #4 Hanover the other night.  Hoping that the Cards build upon this one and dont look past Cortland

    As 1 who has seen Cortland up close and personal, 2 Times a year for at least the past 7 seasons,  that is good advice "don't look past Cortland "

    Coach Spanbauer is the dean of coaches in the SUNYAC!  It's not a scheme that he hasn't seen!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on November 30, 2017, 08:30:22 AM
    Bengals- good to see you over here!
    Looking for the cards to build momentum and take it to Cortland tonight.

    Anyone- any word on Sausville?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 01, 2017, 02:45:29 AM
    I gotta admit, that Cortland STF game was a classic.  Cortland takes late lead STF comes back.  Comes down to last shot. East region Hoops ( E8, LL and SUNYAC) should all have multiple entries to the dance this year. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 01, 2017, 06:27:32 AM
    Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 30, 2017, 08:30:22 AM
    Bengals- good to see you over here!
    Looking for the cards to build momentum and take it to Cortland tonight.

    Anyone- any word on Sausville?

    Sausville played 16 mins off the bench last night.  Short rotation, though - think that will be typical going forward?  They played quite a few guys to start the year.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 01, 2017, 08:02:00 AM
    glad he got in rotation, but losing that one hurts.
    lets hope for better games to come!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: fisheralum91 on December 08, 2017, 10:07:51 AM
    Soooooooooooooooooo....
    Fisher was overrated......just a tad :o

    Man.....So how does the Lax team look this year? ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 15, 2017, 12:50:09 AM
    ESPNU will rebroadcast the Brockpirt vs Mary Hardin game Friday at 4 pm!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on December 15, 2017, 07:00:42 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on December 15, 2017, 12:50:09 AM
    ESPNU will rebroadcast the Brockpirt vs Mary Hardin game Friday at 4 pm!

    Are you sure you wanted to post this on the E8 hoops board? Think you meant to use the football boards. And which Friday? Today or next Friday?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on December 16, 2017, 03:01:37 AM
    Quote from: magicman on December 15, 2017, 07:00:42 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on December 15, 2017, 12:50:09 AM
    ESPNU will rebroadcast the Brockpirt vs Mary Hardin game Friday at 4 pm!

    Are you sure you wanted to post this on the E8 hoops board? Think you meant to use the football boards. And which Friday? Today or next Friday?

    Yesterday
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 18, 2018, 04:56:30 PM
    It is already the midway point of January. In a month's time, we will be looking at conference tournaments and discussing who has a chance to make the NCAA tournaments. However, there is still a lot of basketball to be played and many teams are starting to take the turn into the second half of conference play.

    On Thursday's edition of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave will chat with a number of guests to get a landscape of where things are in Division III. The conversation will include checking in at the NCAA Convention where legislation will be voted on by DIII members and conferences on whether to start the season a week earlier.

    Dave then talks to some of the hotter teams in the country. Two women's programs (ranked and unranked) who are leading their respective conferences and looking to build on recent success. Also two men's programs one of which is not in the spotlight as much as they traditionally are along with a program we haven't talked to in a number of years.

    This week's WBCA Center Court will feature a women's coach who is doing what she can to spread the word about women's basketball including giving more of her time to make sure her colleagues are taken care of and heard.

    Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE starting at 7:00 p.m. ET here: http://bit.ly/2DmSR9D

    You can also send your questions to the show and have them featured on the Hoopsville Mailbag segment. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com.

    Guests include (in order of appearance):
    - James Wagner, CSAC Assistant Commissioner
    - Bobby Hurley, Stevens men's coach
    - Kris Huffman, No. 9 DePauw women's coach
    - Polly Thomason, Texas-Dallas women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
    - Matt Logie, No. 7 Whitworth men's coach
    - Ashlee Rogers, Marymount women's coach

    You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
    SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
    iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
    Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
    Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D710%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D2rsh2%2Frej59edr1em87ftw.jpg&hash=ab208210dbcea0cb6b78ddb648fe9f3a436cda07)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 31, 2018, 04:28:58 PM
    Houghton just wouldn't go away last night at home. Sounded like the Highlanders were backed by a pep band! That's got to be the reason they were sharpshooters and played solid defense. AU was fortunate to escape with the win, 75-74.

    AU (15-4, 8-2) now tied with Naz (8-2) for second place behind Stevens (15-4, 9-1), with some more tough games coming down the stretch. This group plays good team basketball and scoring is spread around in such a way that without checking the stats, it's likely there are FIVE players averaging in double digits. They play good team defense as well.

    Saxons host a rising St. John Fisher team (11-8, 6-4) Tuesday, Feb. 6 in their next game. An odd weekend off for AU. Pep will be at the football banquet Saterday afternoon, anyway.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 13, 2018, 08:55:29 PM
    Alfred came from behind to edge regionally ranked Nazareth, 89-87 tonight at Galanis Arena. Trailing 81-72 with 2:12 remaining, the Saxons went on a 17-6 run as the Golden Flyers shot only 6-of-12 from the free throw line and failed to score a field goal. The Saxons went 7-of-8 at the line down the stretch and had a key steal on the inbounds pass with 9 seconds remaining after Nick Schmidt had hit four straight free throws to pull AU to within 87-86.

    Following a Naz timeout, AU ran an inbounds play that left Schmidt alone in the corner, who nailed the trey to give AU the 89-87 lead with 7 seconds remaining. Naz rushed down the court and threw up an errant shot, AU garnered the rebound and the miracle win was celebrated with fans rushing the court.

    The Saxons (16-6, 10-4 E8) have games remaining at Hartwick (8-15, 5-9 E8) Friday, Feb. 16 and at Utica (14-9, 9-5 E8) Saturday, Feb. 17.
    The loss snapped a 7-game win streak by Naz (18-7, 13-3) and may have cost the Golden Flyers the #1 seed and home court in the E8 tourney, depending on what Stevens (18-5, 12-2 E8) does against Elmira and Utica.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2018, 02:01:24 PM
    Week 2 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-second
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 14, 2018, 05:51:07 PM
    final weekend seeding scenarios:

    Stevens must sweep the Elmira-Utica trip to win the regular season title and host the E8 tournament. If they lose either game, Nazareth will host via season sweep of the Ducks. Alfred clinched a berth by beating Naz last night.

    The last spot will go to Utica or Fisher. Utica is currently in 4th but was swept by the Cards. The Pioneers need A) a sweep of Alfred and Stevens or B) a split and a Fisher loss to Sage on Saturday. SJF gets in with two Utica losses or a win and one Utica loss.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2018, 05:37:42 PM
    The final week of the 2017-18 season is upon us. In a week's time, the topic will be who has punched their tickets to the NCAA tournaments and who is hoping to get selected. This week... we don't know many of the answers and some questions have yet to be considered.

    url=http://www.d3hoopsville.com]Hoopsville[/url] returns to the air LIVE this Sunday night with a jam-packed, and super-sized, edition. Dave welcomes guests from around the country and looks at a lot of the conference tournaments which are getting underway. Can some of the top teams take advantage of home-court advantage? Who may surprise? Who do some NOT want to see lose if they hope to make the tournament themselves?

    Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE starting at 7:00 p.m. ET here: http://bit.ly/2EyN7G9

    If you have questions, be sure to email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or interact with the show via the social media avenues located to the right.

    Guests include (in order of appearance):
    - Tom Glynn, Nichols men's coach
    - Anne Crutchfield, Emory & Henry women's coach
    - Kevin Broderick, Nazareth men's coach
    - Zach Otto-Fisher, UW-Superior interim women's coach
    - Jon Prevo, No. 24 Rose-Hulman women's coach
    - Brendan Gulick, Baldwin Wallace broadcaster (Great Lakes recap)
    - Ryan Scott, "Top 25 Double-take"

    If you enjoy the show via the podcasts instead, you can get access to them or subscribe one of the three following ways (click on the images when necessary):
    SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D150%2Fmh%3D39%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D34qaz%2Ffrghgxk7kqd172nn.jpg&hash=6ef41ddb2f5e1c3420db88961e4f9e8a76ca72de) (https://apple.co/2E9e0Bl)
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D150%2Fmh%3D55%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D34qc6%2Fnv94ufhrqbnvt3d4.jpg&hash=c9b51356cf30d2646f6d744dc0ce47b431cec05e) (http://bit.ly/2rFfr7Z)

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
    Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
    Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D710%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D4d99w%2Fxi30otvz7gow1bon.jpg&hash=e9669b02c4d9e5d090b49c897acada4a3f2fd336)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 02:41:38 PM
    The NCAA men's basketball regional advisory committees released their third set of rankings, and as expected, the Atlantic Region was among those getting shuffled. Here's the full list: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-third

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D600%2Fmh%3D600%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D4ima3%2Fdinflo07zg1qa2ww.jpg&hash=686d8e036c15a7019bc8f4723e2af35008adc158)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 25, 2018, 06:14:38 PM
    Now Pep doesn't think you can get four more evenly matched teams in a conference tournament than what was just experienced in the Empire 8 Party.
    Friday Night:
    Nazareth 73, Alfred 72 (AU misses a FT with 2 secs remaining, gets offensive rebound and shoots again but misses)
    Utica 63, Stevens 62 (Utica hits a buzzer-beating 3-pointer to win)
    Saturday:
    Nazareth 66, Utica 64 (Home court advantage good for a point or two, no?)

    Good luck to the Golden Flyers in the NCAA Tournament. Hoping to see my Saxons again in ECAC play....time will tell.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Mike Rejniak on March 12, 2018, 11:23:36 AM
    ​Dear D3 Faithful ;D,
         I have read many of your posts throughout the years and even met some of you in person, but for those who I haven't met, let me introduce myself: my name is Michael Rejniak and I have spent over 14 years coaching Division 3 basketball and love what our division has done and continues to do for  the sport of basketball. One of the greatest things about Division 3 basketball is the brotherhood that we all have with one another (coaches and players alike). My wish is to showcase the talents of D3 on a national stage in The Basketball Tournament (TBT).  You may have heard me speak about this on the Hoopsville Marathon with Dave McHugh of D3hoops.com (at the 6:11 mark). The TBT is a national tournament that is televised in July/August on ESPN after the NBA season is over. My goal is to put forth an all-star D3 team (current players are ineligible) and have them compete in this tournament to take on Former D1 / semi-pro's to prove that D3 deserves the same respect as other NCAA divisions. The team is mostly complete with former student-athletes from all over the country competing. Once the roster is complete we will be sure to release it through d3hoops. Former Babson College National Champion Matthew Droney '17 will also be assisting me on this journey.

    How YOU can help our former elite D3 basketball players

    While the end prize of this tournament is a monetary prize, being a D3-lifer, the goal is not the money (we all know that's not why we get into coaching), the goal is to bring an end to the stigma of Division 3 basketball, an awareness of how talented our student-athletes are and that we can compete (and win) against the best. We do need to raise funds for an entry fee, travel, meal and housing expenses for the athletes. In order to do this, we are conducting a crowd-funding campaign through GoFundMe to help make this a reality. These athletes need your support! Just think -- if every Division 3 school donated just $10, we will have raised over $4,000!!!! The link to the GoFundMe Page is below and please SPREAD THE WORD and email me with any questions/concerns at WeAreD3TBT@gmail.com. Thank you in advance for your support and Dave and I look forward to this "D3 Dream Team" taking the court this summer.-Mike Rejniak

    Support "We Are D3" In The TBT
    https://www.gofundme.com/WeAreD3TBT (https://www.gofundme.com/WeAreD3TBT)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 11, 2018, 11:18:53 AM
    FYI: Empire 8 will lose Stevens in a year: http://d3sports.com/notables/2018/08/stevens-moving-to-freedom
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on August 11, 2018, 11:48:17 AM
    I thought they might step up a little higher in difficulty level than that, but I'm sure the rest of the E8 is happy for the chance to win something once in a while.

    Honestly my first two reactions are 1) maybe E8 baseball should just disband, they'll never keep the Pool A bid now and 2) their superpower men's volleyball program is going from the UVC to the MAC? That's the equivalent of Auburn (Springfield is Alabama) going from the SEC to the Sun Belt.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 13, 2018, 12:27:26 PM
    Caz - you might want to check the MAC's volleyball a little closer. Stevenson, off the top of my head, has been pretty good as well. Stevens is certainly the top dog, but let's not pretend the MAC doesn't have good teams.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 24, 2019, 03:35:33 PM
    Went to post a message on this board and got a red letter warning. It wasn't Jesus speaking, but it was an automatic warning that "this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days. Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic."

    Gosh, isn't it basketball season in the Empire 8? Anyone out there?

    Look at these standings. Now discuss.

       W-L    Win %    PF    PA       W-L    Win %    PF    PA    L10    Streak
    Nazareth    6-0    1.000    516    452       12-3    0.800    1209    1139    8-2    Won 8
    St. John Fisher    5-2    0.714    577    488       10-6    0.625    1302    1171    6-4    Lost 2
    Stevens    6-3    0.667    705    636       13-5    0.722    1354    1248    7-3    Lost 1
    Alfred    4-2    0.667    495    453       11-4    0.733    1187    1092    7-3    Won 1
    Utica    3-4    0.429    505    505       9-7    0.563    1224    1175    4-6    Won 2
    Elmira    2-3    0.400    399    414       4-10    0.286    1091    1192    3-7    Won 1
    Hartwick    3-5    0.375    632    657       7-10    0.412    1310    1353    3-7    Lost 1
    Sage    3-5    0.375    605    629       7-10    0.412    1318    1338    5-5    Won 2
    Houghton    0-8    0.000    449    649       1-16    0.059    1078    1375    1-9    Lost 8

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bengalsrule on January 24, 2019, 08:38:46 PM
    Glad to see at least Pep is alive and well over there in Empire 8.  Pretty sad commentary fellas to be dormant for over 5 months. Especially a conference as deep and rich as Empire 8. Heck during football season there are some guys who posted daily.  I'm guessing hoops just doesn't get the love there.  Glad to see Pep standing tall!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on January 25, 2019, 11:54:59 PM
    Quote from: Bengalsrule on January 24, 2019, 08:38:46 PM
    Glad to see at least Pep is alive and well over there in Empire 8.  Pretty sad commentary fellas to be dormant for over 5 months. Especially a conference as deep and rich as Empire 8. Heck during football season there are some guys who posted daily.  I'm guessing hoops just doesn't get the love there.  Glad to see Pep standing tall!

    Congrats, 'rule, on Bengals big win over a very good Brockport team. Pep saw Brockport beat the Saxons at Galanis Arena. Very tough team to beat. But Pep is pleased with the play of the Saxons this season. Just an outstanding bunch of competitors...any of them can go off on any given night and lead AU to victory. Having graduated Cousin and Hook, Pep was concerned that the Saxons needed to replace the big boys. Couldn't ask for any better than 6-7 freshman Elliott Bowen (he's probably only 6-4 but his hair gives him the extra three inches) and 6-8 freshman Brewster Marshall, an engineering major and son of AU engineering alums now living in Horseheads. Bowen has been E8 Rookie of the Week once and Marshall earned the same honor three times this season.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on January 26, 2019, 12:13:51 AM
    Glad you'r still alive and well, Pep.  I look at this board from time to time and can't believe how nobody responds here anymore. Keep the faith all it takes is a couple of good teams having good years and it will pick up. I still follow the E8 and check their scores every night of play. Somewhat of a down year this year but that's not uncommon in DIII. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 29, 2019, 11:05:15 PM
    Naz beat Elmira 124-88 tonight, that is just flippin' bonkers, my dudes
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 30, 2019, 01:48:44 PM
    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=m5lxl/o3h5z2xs7txn530n.jpg)

    The Hoopsville Marathon Show ... is tomorrow!

    Tune in starting at 12:00 p.m. ET as we talk to guests from around the country about nothing but #d3hoops.

    It is all about celebrating the season, student-athletes, coaches, and an exciting season.

    For more information, click here: http://bit.ly/2HGx0N3

    We will share more about the show a little later.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 06, 2019, 04:16:01 PM
    Here are the first rankings for the men this season: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-first
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 08, 2019, 10:53:16 PM
    Naz has suddenly dropped two, to Stevens and now to Fisher. Things are getting interesting in the E8. Saxons made it six straight tonight but not without a struggle as Stevens was on fire to start the game and rolled to a 27-11 lead. By halftime, the Saxons had pulled to within 34-32.

    The second half was a see-saw affair and just when it looked like the Ducks were pulling away, AU raced back and regulation ended at 64-64. AU then went on a 14-0 run to move to 9-2 in conference play, 16-4 overall, while Fisher topped Naz by 10. Naz is still in front at 10-2, AU 9-2 and Fisher 9-3, with Stevens at 7-7.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 11, 2019, 06:03:55 PM
    Wondering if the Saxons (17-4) might get a little love in the NCAA Regional Rankings this week. Looks like Naz, Fisher and Alfred are locked in to the Conference Tournament, and most likely Stevens. A lot of games left to play to determine the first place (host) team.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 11, 2019, 10:29:00 PM
    Alfred's non-conference schedule was really, really, really, really bad.

    Two different flavors of Bryant & Stratton, seriously, don't do that

    D'Youville (.500 AMCC team); Keuka (sub-.500 NEAC team, even sub -.500 in the NEAC); RIT (5-17, last place in LL); lost to Geneseo (9th place in SUNYAC)

    SUNY Canton (only 13-12 despite playing in the NAC); Cobleskill (at least a competitive NEAC team, but they lost to RIT and RPI, plus Delhi by 30) and Brockport (they're fine! But you lost.)

    The E8 is pretty terrible this year and the only quasi-good team is Naz, and Alfred hasn't beaten them either.

    So that's a no from me, dawg.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2019, 01:20:51 PM
    I see no way Alfred gets into the rankings. Their SOS is a bad .466 (their non-conference SOS even worse than that) and they are 0-2 against regionally ranked opponents. You basically can't afford to lose with that kind of resume ... and Alfred has lost four times.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 12, 2019, 06:00:55 PM
    I'll take that as a "no." No love for Alfred. :-\  Looks to be a lonely Valentine's Day.  :'(

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2019, 03:22:51 PM
    The second week Regional Rankings have been released: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-second
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 15, 2019, 10:53:10 PM
    Saxons trailed Utica by 18 in the first half (36-18), pull to within 41-34 at halftime, then a flurry of treys early in the second half gets AU ahead. Saxons hold on for an 86-77 win in Utica to move to 19-4, 12-2, their most E8 conference wins ever.

    Will have their work cut out for them at St. John Fisher tomorrow.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 16, 2019, 06:33:57 PM
    So Saxons beat regionally-ranked St. John Fisher 104-82 on Fisher's court to go to 20-4 overall, 13-2 in E8 play. Meanwhile, Naz loses at Elmira, 81-80, to move to 18-6, 12-3, thus setting up Tuesday's season finale at Galanis Arena in Alfred for the E8 regular season title and home court advantage for E8 Tourney.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 17, 2019, 05:10:11 PM
    Awesome story on AU hoop seniors Scotty Stopera and Dom LaMorta....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgMSazosK70

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bartman on February 18, 2019, 10:56:40 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 16, 2019, 06:33:57 PM
    So Saxons beat regionally-ranked St. John Fisher 104-82 on Fisher's court to go to 20-4 overall, 13-2 in E8 play. Meanwhile, Naz loses at Elmira, 81-80, to move to 18-6, 12-3, thus setting up Tuesday's season finale at Galanis Arena in Alfred for the E8 regular season title and home court advantage for E8 Tourney.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Pep,
        Good luck to your Saxons in the Tourney. I read recently that Keuka College is going to join the E8, is anyone leaving the league?
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 18, 2019, 11:01:45 AM
    Stevens is gone to the MAC Freedom this summer, yeah
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 18, 2019, 02:14:38 PM
    Quote from: Bartman on February 18, 2019, 10:56:40 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 16, 2019, 06:33:57 PM
    So Saxons beat regionally-ranked St. John Fisher 104-82 on Fisher's court to go to 20-4 overall, 13-2 in E8 play. Meanwhile, Naz loses at Elmira, 81-80, to move to 18-6, 12-3, thus setting up Tuesday's season finale at Galanis Arena in Alfred for the E8 regular season title and home court advantage for E8 Tourney.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Pep,
        Good luck to your Saxons in the Tourney. I read recently that Keuka College is going to join the E8, is anyone leaving the league?

    Thanks, Bartman. Campus is buzzing with the success of our Saxon men. Football team's ECAC Bowl banner will be presented at tomorrow's Naz game. Will be fun if we host...a first for AU. Good size AU crowd at Fisher Saturday.

    Yes, Stevens on the way out the door....but hadn't heard about Keuka. Was hoping the E8 would live up to its name with eight members and not experience another nine-team scheduling nightmare. But at least Keuka isn't a five-hour trip!

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 19, 2019, 09:28:27 PM
    AU captures its first ever Empire 8 regular season championship, defeating Nazareth, 94-83, before a rockin' Terry A. Galanis Arena crowd that surpasses any Pep has seen at the McLane Center since a Ron Frederes team went 25-3 in 1985-86, and advanced in the NCAA Tournament with a buzzer beater (ironically to defeat Nazareth in pre-Empire 8 days) at Potsdam State.

    Saxons finish regular season 21-4 (14-2 E8) and will host the Empire 8 Tournament this Friday and Saturday. Nazareth is #2 seed and finishes regular season 18-7 (12-4 E8). #3 will be St. John Fisher (17-8, 12-4 E8) and #4 will be Stevens (16-9, 9-7 E8).

    Saxons took control early and led the entire game, although the Golden Flyers pulled to within two late in the game to make it interesting but Saxons hit a couple treys and pulled away.

    Great crowd from Nazareth made for a very noisy gym, what with the PurpOut that brought in a huge Saxon faithful crowd.

    On Saxon Warriors!


    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 03:38:26 PM
    The third public NCAA Division III regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-third
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 20, 2019, 04:46:14 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 03:38:26 PM
    The third public NCAA Division III regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-third

    Does this regional ranking committee do stand-up? They are HILARIOUS!!!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 20, 2019, 04:52:06 PM
    rankings were done before Alfred beat Naz last night
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 04:59:25 PM
    The fact the Naz game isn't factored in right now is important to remember. Data is through Sunday.

    And when a team falls out of the rankings (like SJF did this week and was sitting at the very bottom last week), it doesn't help Alfred. Their SOS is poor ... very poor. .475 poor. I am not sure what you think should vault them in. 2-1 vRRO with the two wins being a #8 in the Week 2 rankings.... 1-1 (I think) moving forward - against, again, a #8 regionally ranked team. The resume is not good.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 20, 2019, 05:20:57 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 20, 2019, 04:52:06 PM
    rankings were done before Alfred beat Naz last night

    Oh, Alfred beat Naz last night? Cool!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 05:26:20 PM
    (https://media.giphy.com/media/qmfpjpAT2fJRK/giphy.gif)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2019, 06:05:29 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 20, 2019, 04:52:06 PM
    rankings were done before Alfred beat Naz last night

    I don't know if Pep has ever followed a sport which plays more than one game a week.  ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on February 20, 2019, 06:33:55 PM
    Alfred has a split [W home L road] with regionally ranked Nazareth [18-7].

    They have two road losses to Geneseo [8-17] and Sage [10-15], and a home loss to Regionally ranked [3rd in the SUNYAC] Brockport [16-10].

    They haven't played anyone else who is ranked in the East region.

    They have bottom fished the lower layers of the east region for several of their non-conference wins...






    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2019, 06:44:02 PM
    Quote from: thebear on February 20, 2019, 06:33:55 PM
    They have bottom fished the lower layers of the east region for several of their non-conference wins...

    This especially is super relevant. At time of ranking, Alfred was 18-4 vs. D-III, with a .475 SOS.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 20, 2019, 06:54:04 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2019, 06:05:29 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 20, 2019, 04:52:06 PM
    rankings were done before Alfred beat Naz last night

    I don't know if Pep has ever followed a sport which plays more than one game a week.  ;D

    Wait, does racquetball count?  ???

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Basketball23 on February 20, 2019, 06:55:21 PM
    I couldn't be happier for Alfred. To think where that program was, as recently as the late Aught's is incredible. The season they are having, no matter the outcome this weekend, will be remembered for a long time. However, you simply can't play two different versions of Bryant and Stratton, lose to Sage, and get blown out by Geneseo (this year at least) and expect good things. Their best wins are against mediocre (in a National, maybe even regional context) Naz and SJFC teams. Their is an argument to be made, that the best thing on Alfred's resume aside from beating Naz last night is losing to Brockport. I don't live close to Mayberry anymore so I cant get to McLane but I'll be watching online and rooting for the Saxons get it done. I dont want to see their fate tied to their schedule.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on February 20, 2019, 07:06:12 PM
    And Since Kornaker is now rooting for the NESCAC, the E8 is a one and done conference at this time.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 20, 2019, 07:10:24 PM
    All kidding aside, Pep is aware, as stated previously, that the Saxons have a snowball's chance in hell of getting an at-large berth to the Big Dance.

    The non-conference schedule that includes East Birdsall Tech and Seneca Stenographer's School is bottom fishing at its finest. Da boys know they need to get it done on the court...and they've earned the right for that to be the Saxons' home court.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on February 20, 2019, 08:16:11 PM
    Pep - Hint - for next year, Alfred needs to schedule for their non-conference games:

    [None of these bust their travel budget]

    Rochester 72 miles
    Brockport 90 miles
    Hobart 72 miles
    Cortland 119 miles
    Ithaca 97 miles
    Morrisville 162 miles
    Oswego 144 miles
    Geneseo [They had an unusual bad Year] 42 miles
    Buff State 95 miles

    9 solid non-conference games within 3 hours drive...




    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 20, 2019, 09:35:23 PM
    For a couple of non-conference games, Alfred State and AU have for the past few years bringing in some cupcakes for a quasi-tournament in which teams go round-robin but A-State and AU don't play each other. That's when the two Bryant & Strattons appeared on the schedule and Pep doesn't know who's in charge of that tourney. And, early in the season, the Saxons' play was a bit sporadic, with a horrid shooting night at Geneseo.

    Brockport State game was the first of the spring semester after a three-week layoff and was a good tough game for the Saxons to get right back into it. Glad they played it, even with the loss, as it prepared them for the Empire 8 slate.

    AU at one time regularly played Hobart, Union, St. Lawrence, Clarkson, RIT, Ithaca, Buffalo State etal. Ironic you should include Morrisville State on the list....when Pep was at Mooville, he closely followed the (junior college) Mustangs as sports editor of the Chimes. At the time, friend Bob Baker was coaching AU and actually asked me about one of the Mustangs he was looking at as a transfer!

    Pep has little say in scheduling. Perhaps some that do will respond accordingly.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Basketball23 on February 20, 2019, 10:16:38 PM
    The non-conference is one thing but the departures in the E8 over the last decade certainly hasn't helped Alfred (or anyone for that matter) in hopes of getting an at-large bid. There were some really good RIT, Ithaca, and Stevens teams over the years. To lose them and have to replace them with Houghton and now Keuka? Woof.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 11:13:27 PM
    Alfred actually has a snowball's chance in hell of being ranked. The at-large chances are ... none.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 23, 2019, 06:09:14 PM
    Hey Pep,

    Congratulations on winning the Empire 8 regular season and Conference Championship.  Good luck in the NCAA tournament. Happy for you. 8-)
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 23, 2019, 06:16:57 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 23, 2019, 06:09:14 PM
    Hey Pep,

    Congratulations on winning the Empire 8 regular season and Conference Championship.  Good luck in the NCAA tournament. Happy for you. 8-)

    Thanks, magicman....perhaps we'll meet in the NCAAs if the Cardinals get an at-large. The snowball is melting in Mayberry. The sap is running. How sweet it is!

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on February 23, 2019, 06:28:52 PM
    I think with how cheap the NCAA is for first and second round that the Saxons will wind up at either U of R or Oswego, as that's a short bus ride, and a fast trip home on Saturday night, of course they could wind up in some place like Scranton, which isn't any farther than Oswego...
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2019, 12:26:58 PM
    Quote from: thebear on February 23, 2019, 06:28:52 PM
    I think with how cheap the NCAA is for first and second round that the Saxons will wind up at either U of R or Oswego, as that's a short bus ride, and a fast trip home on Saturday night, of course they could wind up in some place like Scranton, which isn't any farther than Oswego...

    The committee tries to get four regions to each site, which is much easier to do in the eastern part of the country.  I could see them at Swarthmore or even Randolph-Macon, Christopher Newport or somewhere in Ohio.  500 miles is a pretty wide radius and Alfred is well positioned.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bartman on February 24, 2019, 01:41:17 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 23, 2019, 06:16:57 PM
    Quote from: magicman on February 23, 2019, 06:09:14 PM
    Hey Pep,

    Congratulations on winning the Empire 8 regular season and Conference Championship.  Good luck in the NCAA tournament. Happy for you. 8-)

    Thanks, magicman....perhaps we'll meet in the NCAAs if the Cardinals get an at-large. The snowball is melting in Mayberry. The sap is running. How sweet it is!


    Congrats to Pep and his Saxon Warriors! Good luck in the NCAAs!

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2019, 04:08:17 PM
    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=4o2h3/5qe4yd77benqfa7a.jpg)

    This is it! The regular season is over. The conference titles have been handed out and 86 teams know they will be playing next week in the NCAA Division III men's and women's Championship Tournaments!

    However, 42 slots need to be filled. Which programs have best positioned themselves to selected to play for a national title?

    It is the biggest show of the year. Bubble teams watch anxiously. Rivals watch wondering if their rivals will make the event. Others watch because ... this is one of the best nights of the entire season.

    Tune in a special episode of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) where we will make our mock selections of who will be in and who will be left out of the DIII national tournaments. Our teams of experts will make the picks using the same criteria the national committees consider.

    Plus, hear, one last time before the brackets are announced, from the national committee chairs who discuss how this year's rankings and process have worked out. And hear from some teams who have already punched their tickets to the tournaments - many for the first time in program history!

    Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. Sunday's special will hit the air at 6:00 p.m. ET right here: http://bit.ly/2XuWjWa (or via Facebook Live or Periscope simulcasts).

    If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to dave.mchugh@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options below.

    Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
    - John Alesi, Baruch men's coach
    - Sam Atkinson, Men's National Committee Chair (Gallaudet Associate Director for Communications)
    - Russ Phillips, Alfred men's coach
    - Bill Curley, Emerson men's coach
    - Karin Harvey, Women's National Committee Chair (Montclair State women's coach)
    - Rayne Reber, Rosemont women's coach
    - Lyle Jones, Bethany Lutheran women's coach

    Men's Mock Selections Team:
    - Ryan Scott, D3hoops.com
    - Bob Quillman, IWUHoops.com
    - Michael Blaine, Medaille men's coach

    Women's Mock Selections Team:
    - Gordon Mann, D3hoops.com
    - BJ Spigelmyer, DeSales Sports Information Director
    - James Wagner, CSAC Assistant Commissioner

    If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
    SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D150%2Fmh%3D39%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D34qaz%2Ffrghgxk7kqd172nn.jpg&hash=6ef41ddb2f5e1c3420db88961e4f9e8a76ca72de) (https://apple.co/2E9e0Bl)
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D150%2Fmh%3D55%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D34qc6%2Fnv94ufhrqbnvt3d4.jpg&hash=c9b51356cf30d2646f6d744dc0ce47b431cec05e) (http://bit.ly/2rFfr7Z)
    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=150/mh=45/cr=n/d=hl01l/ir41q7iread2rbzq.jpg) (https://spoti.fi/2qoExnV)

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
    Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
    Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: With Age Comes Wisdom? on February 24, 2019, 07:31:17 PM
    Been a real long time since one my of posts has been on this board but just have to give a "shout out" to AU Pep... always a class act who has his team in the dance!  Congratulations!!  Perhaps an Oswego, Rochester, Alfred , Scranton pod??
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 24, 2019, 08:07:31 PM
    Quote from: With Age Comes Wisdom? on February 24, 2019, 07:31:17 PM
    Been a real long time since one my of posts has been on this board but just have to give a "shout out" to AU Pep... always a class act who has his team in the dance!  Congratulations!!  Perhaps an Oswego, Rochester, Alfred , Scranton pod??

    Thanks, With Age! Will just wait and see. No matter where the Saxons go, the fans will follow.

    So excited for these kids...hard workers every one of them...see them in the library when they're not in the gym. After AU graduated its two bigs last year, Pep asked Coach Phillips if he was getting some big boys to replace them. Boy, did he! The freshmen Twin Towers have been a pleasant surprise and a couple "big" reasons the Saxons are where they are, thanks to the leadership and hunger of our four seniors.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 27, 2019, 05:02:46 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 11:13:27 PM
    Alfred actually has a snowball's chance in hell of being ranked. The at-large chances are ... none.

    Hmmmmm....

    Final Regional Rankings
       East              
    1    Oswego State    22-5    22-5    3
    2    Rochester    20-5    20-5    1
    3    Plattsburgh State    20-6    20-6    2
         No at-large bids below here.
    4    Brockport    17-11    17-11    5
    5    Alfred    21-4    23-4    --
    6    Skidmore    19-6    19-7    4
    7    St. John Fisher    18-9    18-9    --
    8    Hobart    17-11    17-11    --

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bartman on February 27, 2019, 05:19:52 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 27, 2019, 05:02:46 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 11:13:27 PM
    Alfred actually has a snowball's chance in hell of being ranked. The at-large chances are ... none.

    Hmmmmm....

    Final Regional Rankings
       East              
    1    Oswego State    22-5    22-5    3
    2    Rochester    20-5    20-5    1
    3    Plattsburgh State    20-6    20-6    2
         No at-large bids below here.
    4    Brockport    17-11    17-11    5
    5    Alfred    21-4    23-4    --
    6    Skidmore    19-6    19-7    4
    7    St. John Fisher    18-9    18-9    --
    8    Hobart    17-11    17-11    --

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Pep....here's hoping the Saxon Warriors keep surprising the experts!
    Glad to see Hobart creep into the rankings...good luck to Skidmore , they could surprise as well!
    Go E8 and LL!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 27, 2019, 05:55:33 PM
    Quote from: Bartman on February 27, 2019, 05:19:52 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 27, 2019, 05:02:46 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 11:13:27 PM
    Alfred actually has a snowball's chance in hell of being ranked. The at-large chances are ... none.

    Hmmmmm....

    Final Regional Rankings
       East              
    1    Oswego State    22-5    22-5    3
    2    Rochester    20-5    20-5    1
    3    Plattsburgh State    20-6    20-6    2
         No at-large bids below here.
    4    Brockport    17-11    17-11    5
    5    Alfred    21-4    23-4    --
    6    Skidmore    19-6    19-7    4
    7    St. John Fisher    18-9    18-9    --
    8    Hobart    17-11    17-11    --

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Pep....here's hoping the Saxon Warriors keep surprising the experts!
    Glad to see Hobart creep into the rankings...good luck to Skidmore , they could surprise as well!
    Go E8 and LL!

    Uncharted waters for the Saxons...just hoping, unlike Wile E. Coyote, they can catch those Roadrunners. Then maybe they can cage the Falcons or ground the Captains, whichever survives. No expectations, really, just hoping AU can well represent the E8 and Upstate NY.

    Remember some great games in the old Men's Gym against ICAC foes Hobart, Clarkson, SLU, Union, RIT, then in McLane Center in its infancy in the early 70s.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 27, 2019, 05:58:14 PM
    Bartman:

    Does Hobart do the ECAC thing? In years past, the ECAC sent AU deep into the woods of Pennsylvania....didn't fare well for the Saxons.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: ronk on February 27, 2019, 06:22:36 PM
    No Hobart in the ECAC tourney which starts tonight.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bartman on February 28, 2019, 10:07:54 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 27, 2019, 05:58:14 PM
    Bartman:

    Does Hobart do the ECAC thing? In years past, the ECAC sent AU deep into the woods of Pennsylvania....didn't fare well for the Saxons.
    NCAA or bust
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 28, 2019, 10:32:57 AM
    Quote from: Bartman on February 28, 2019, 10:07:54 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 27, 2019, 05:58:14 PM
    Bartman:

    Does Hobart do the ECAC thing? In years past, the ECAC sent AU deep into the woods of Pennsylvania....didn't fare well for the Saxons.
    NCAA or bust

    Pep hasn't been a real fan of the ECAC thing....not enough Upstate NY teams participate to make it worthwhile. Trips to Pennsylvania have been less than dandy. But hoping a trip to Virginia will be fruitful!


    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on February 28, 2019, 11:28:38 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 28, 2019, 10:32:57 AM
    Quote from: Bartman on February 28, 2019, 10:07:54 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 27, 2019, 05:58:14 PM
    Bartman:

    Does Hobart do the ECAC thing? In years past, the ECAC sent AU deep into the woods of Pennsylvania....didn't fare well for the Saxons.
    NCAA or bust

    Pep hasn't been a real fan of the ECAC thing....not enough Upstate NY teams participate to make it worthwhile. Trips to Pennsylvania have been less than dandy. But hoping a trip to Virginia will be fruitful!


    On Saxon Warriors!

    If you go to Virginia, Pep, bring your fishing pole, and your bicycle. You can while away your time there, taking in the scenery and maybe catching a few fish on a sunny day. You sure won't be watching any basketball games. Even if Alfred pulls off a few upsets, to get to the semifinals, the Saxons will be trying to finish the job in Fort Wayne, Indiana. That's where this year's Final Four is being played. ;D You did know that, didn't you? No more Salem Civic Center. At least for the next few years.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 28, 2019, 11:30:55 AM
    He meant that Alfred is going to Virginia this weekend for the CNU regional.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on February 28, 2019, 01:46:15 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 28, 2019, 11:30:55 AM
    He meant that Alfred is going to Virginia this weekend for the CNU regional.

    Yup.  ;D
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2019, 07:41:53 AM

    Also, if you do accidentally go to Salem on the 16th and 17th, the women will be playing there, so you can catch some great basketball.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 01, 2019, 11:40:56 AM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on February 28, 2019, 01:46:15 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 28, 2019, 11:30:55 AM
    He meant that Alfred is going to Virginia this weekend for the CNU regional.

    Yup.  ;D

    And I thought you were expressing great confidence in your Saxon Warriors, Pep. :D

    Enjoy the Virginia weather...it's gotta be better than what we've been getting!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2019, 07:19:32 PM
    nice win Saxomaphones!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on March 01, 2019, 07:20:32 PM
    Saxons defeat Ramapo, 92-76! Alfred's 14th straight win....

    On Saxon Warriors!

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on March 01, 2019, 07:21:11 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2019, 07:19:32 PM
    nice win Saxomaphones!

    Get the fight song ready!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: magicman on March 01, 2019, 08:56:42 PM
    Quote from: AUPepBand on March 01, 2019, 07:21:11 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2019, 07:19:32 PM
    nice win Saxomaphones!

    Get the fight song ready!

    On Saxon Warriors. Great Job Alfred. I can see your wide smile all the way up here in PLattsburgh, Pep. Don't stop now.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Bartman on March 02, 2019, 08:02:58 AM
    Congrats to the Saxon Warriors on your NCAA win.....may the sound of kazoos distract CNU for another win!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on March 02, 2019, 08:54:18 AM
    Congrats the the Saxons, nice to see a win in your in team, beat a Pool C team.

    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on March 03, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
    Congrats to Coach Russ Phillips and the Saxons on an historic memorable outstanding season. Seniors Dom LeMorta, Scotty Stopera, Sage Brown and Pat McLamore Jr. will well be remembered for their grit in achieving their goal of winning an Empire 8 championship and creating a culture of winning at Alfred.

    Pep is so proud of the Saxons and their fabulous season-ending run to the title and the NCAA Tournament. This team, at 24-5, is second in AU history for wins in a season, with only the 1985-86 squad (25-3) exceeding their win total.

    Congrats also to an outstanding CNU squad. Best of luck the rest of the way!

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: With Age Comes Wisdom? on March 04, 2019, 08:07:50 AM
    AU Pep ..your Saxon Warriors deserve a hearty congratulations on a truly excellent season!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on March 05, 2019, 04:28:52 PM
    The Saxon Warriors captured the hearts of many in the extended Alfred Community and the Alfred University Family. Their grit and excellent work ethic, particularly among the four seniors, combined with their emphasis on "team first" demonstrated by selfless play, led to their amazing season. Kudos to Coach Russ Phillips and the rest of his Empire 8 Coaching Staff of the Year for creating that culture.

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: AUPepBand on March 12, 2019, 08:18:26 AM
    Congrats to Russ Phillips and Dom LaMorta!!

    https://gosaxons.com/news/2019/3/11/mens-basketball-coach-phillips-earns-d3hoops-com-east-region-coach-of-the-year-lemorta-tabbed-as-first-team.aspx

    On Saxon Warriors!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on October 29, 2019, 01:31:13 PM
    Fisher preseason #25

    https://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2019-20/preseason
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: nyhoopstalk on December 18, 2019, 09:55:12 AM
    I have watched a number of games of E8 teams this year and believe St John Fisher should roll through the conference this year. I did not realize Stevens left the E8 this year. They would have provided the only resistance to St John Fisher. Hartwick looks to be a dangerous team but do not think they have the horses to win enough games to get home court advantage.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on December 18, 2019, 01:42:59 PM
    Fisher just played a tournament in Florida, they finished last, Wooster, [Massey 46] a top 25 team beat Brockport [Massey 81] , who is probably the best team in the SUNYAC 94-90 in the final. Fisher [Massey 129] lost to St. Joe's of Maine [Massey 322] 66-64 in the consy.
    First Round Wooster beat SJF 81-80, and Brockport beat St. Joe's of Maine 83-73.

    I think in the Rochester area, Hobart is probably best, and Brockport not far behind.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: nyhoopstalk on January 03, 2020, 06:56:47 PM
    Utica with a monster win against Hamilton this afternoon. I may have to rethink my previous post regarding the Empire 8 race!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2020, 12:24:30 AM
    Quote from: nyhoopstalk on January 03, 2020, 06:56:47 PM
    Utica with a monster win against Hamilton this afternoon. I may have to rethink my previous post regarding the Empire 8 race!

    Tough to read into ... with parity now, any really good team has an off night and a good team having a really great game can beat them. It doesn't tell you anything about either squad really because no matter how good teams are ... everyone is beatable these days.

    Utica also nearly blew it. They had a 19-point lead (90-71) with 7:37 remaining. They got outscored 26-10 in the next 6:57 (including a 15-2 run immediately after going up 90-71 and an 11-2 run late) and Hamilton was within 3 with 40 seconds left.

    Utica held on. So I'd call it a good win ... not a monster win.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: stlawus on January 07, 2020, 12:51:04 PM
    For a program like Utica it is most definitely a monster win.   They have been on the up the last 2 years, and now have a win against a top team from a top conference to show how much they've turned around.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 09, 2020, 05:36:54 PM
    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=3v0vj/6gxukfnazjaz94k1.jpg)

    If you look at the calendar, we are midway through the 2019-20 regular season. While there are probably more games ahead than behind for many teams, we now find ourselves looking at the half of the campaign.

    What have we learned so far? Anything?

    We may not be able to answer all of those questions, but we will see if we can turn over a few more rocks to find more clues on Thursday night's Hoopsville.

    We will chat with a men's program that has gone from obscurity to at least being in the conference and regional conversation (if not national). Another men's program is about as high as they can go in the national convo, but do we really know how good they are and is there pressure to win it all? Plus a women's team many of you might not be talking about now, but probably will be chatting about come tournament time.

    Tonight is also the season debut of the WBCA Center Court segment. We talk to Randy Tuggle, the head coach at Greensboro, on why the season is the perfect distraction for a far bigger priority. Tuggle chats with us about his battle with pancreatic cancer and how his team (and family) have been there every step of the way.

    Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Sunday's show LIVE in the following ways:
    - Main page: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville
    - Show page: http://bit.ly/2QZpezb (or www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2019-20/jan9)
    - Facebook Live Simulcast: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (only the first 45 minutes aired; may have had a copyright problem haha)
    - YouTube Simulcast: www.youtube.com/d3hoopsville
    - Team1 Sports: www.team1sports.com/Hoopsville/
    - Team1 Sports app (https://team1sports.com/) (Android TV, Amazon Fire, Apple TV, Roku) - you will either find it under the "live" section or search for the Hoopsville channel

    Thursday's show primarily covers the East, Great Lakes, Mid-Atlantic, and West Regions while also featuring a women's coach in the WBCA Center Court segment. All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

    If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or use any of the social media options.

    Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
    - Rich Murphy, Redlands women's coach
    - Randy Tuggle, Greensboro women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
    - Sean Coffey, Utica men's coach
    - Matt Croci, No. 2 Wittenberg men's coach

    If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
    SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D150%2Fmh%3D39%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D34qaz%2Ffrghgxk7kqd172nn.jpg&hash=6ef41ddb2f5e1c3420db88961e4f9e8a76ca72de) (https://apple.co/2E9e0Bl)

    (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D150%2Fmh%3D55%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D34qc6%2Fnv94ufhrqbnvt3d4.jpg&hash=c9b51356cf30d2646f6d744dc0ce47b431cec05e) (http://bit.ly/2rFfr7Z)

    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=150/mh=45/cr=n/d=hl01l/ir41q7iread2rbzq.jpg) (https://spoti.fi/2qoExnV)

    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=127/mh=38/cr=n/d=155od/msg7impgs5p0hnmg.jpg) (https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-hoopsville-30984615/)

    We also have the podcast now on Tune-In (https://tunein.com/podcasts/Sports--Recreation-Podcasts/Hoopsville-p1153539/) and others coming. We will update them once we have better abilities to do so.

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
    Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
    Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    YouTube: www.youtube.com/d3hoopsville
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2020, 03:18:26 PM
    First Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-first
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 19, 2020, 01:17:20 PM
    Week 2's Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-second
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2020, 04:07:03 PM
    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=60mra/pxvrc8g36o76rvkj.jpg)

    The second Regional Rankings are out, conference races are finishing up while some tournaments have begun. The frenetic finish to the regular season has begun.

    On Thursday's Hoopsville, we chat to a few teams who are either leading their conference standings or could shake them up in their final scheduled games. Plus, a true #whyd3 way of approaching the season - giving back to the community while playing the game.

    Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
    - Sacha Santimano, Eastern Nazarene women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
    - Matt Hunter, York (Pa.) men's coach
    - Kevin Broderick, Nazareth men's coach
    - Shanan Rosenberg, Linfield men's coach

    Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Thursday's show LIVE starting at 7:00 pm ET in the following ways:
    - Main page: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville
    - Show page: http://bit.ly/3bW9d6M (or www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2019-20/feb20)
    - Facebook Live Simulcast: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
    - YouTube Simulcast: www.youtube.com/d3hoopsville
    - Team1 Sports: www.team1sports.com/Hoopsville/
    - Team1 Sports app (https://team1sports.com/) (Android TV, Amazon Fire, Apple TV, Roku) - you will either find it under the "live" section or search for the Hoopsville channel
    Monday's show primarily covers the Atlantic, Central, South, and Northeast Regions. All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

    Thursday's show primarily covers the East, Great Lakes, Mid-Atlantic, and West Regions while also featuring a women's coach in the WBCA Center Court segment. All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

    If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options.

    Please also consider helping us out. We are accepting donations to the show - which many of you have asked about. We have updated the goal to $7,500 by the end of Monday, March 2. We are currently at $3,712.52.

    We will be raising the goal after tonight!

    To donate, click our PayPal link here: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=BSRFLPUJQ9MKL&source=url

    And thank you for your contributions.

    If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
    SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville


     
       
    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=300/mh=150/cr=n/d=40gkf/zp2t977dsfqmq2ng.jpg) (https://apple.co/2E9e0Bl)(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=300/mh=150/cr=n/d=40gkf/7jdya7ckqexrfad3.jpg) (http://bit.ly/2rFfr7Z)(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=300/mh=150/cr=n/d=40gzu/0qxioniqi7kizek9.jpg) (https://spoti.fi/2qoExnV)(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=300/mh=150/cr=n/d=40gkg/qlios5f6juz7tij9.jpg) (https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-hoopsville-30984615/)(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=300/mh=150/cr=n/d=40gkf/otimp41swikeb9uf.jpg) (https://castbox.fm/app/castbox/player/id332395)(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=300/mh=150/cr=n/d=40gkg/vpaw3ejt1tsc9r48.jpg) (https://radiopublic.com/hoopsville-6nkZN8)

    We also have the podcast now on Tune-In (https://tunein.com/podcasts/Sports--Recreation-Podcasts/Hoopsville-p1153539/) and others coming. We will update them once we have better abilities to do so.

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
    Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
    Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    YouTube: www.youtube.com/d3hoopsville
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2020, 02:41:29 PM
    The Week 3 men's regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-third
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 14, 2021, 10:29:53 AM
    SJF's Connor Williams making the rounds on Twitter.

    https://www-rochesterfirst-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.rochesterfirst.com/sports/college-sports/get-to-know-connor-williams-st-john-fisher-basketball-center-after-local-hoopers-viral-moment-victor-big-cat-barstool-sports-video-university-of-buffalo-pass-top-of-the-key-espn/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16394585953066&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rochesterfirst.com%2Fsports%2Fcollege-sports%2Fget-to-know-connor-williams-st-john-fisher-basketball-center-after-local-hoopers-viral-moment-victor-big-cat-barstool-sports-video-university-of-buffalo-pass-top-of-the-key-espn%2F
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: stlawus on January 03, 2022, 07:31:06 PM
    Utica drops a home contest to SUNY Poly.   That'll hurt.  Poly with quite an enigmatic season so far, as they lost to Alfred State by 1 and Naz by 1.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: thebear on January 03, 2022, 07:40:38 PM
    Poly has a really good big, 6-8 Josh Gregory is averaging nearly 25 ppg and 10 rpg.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: stlawus on January 04, 2022, 07:30:22 PM
    I really like St. John Fisher's streaming set up.  2 static camera angles at each end of the court.  I don't have to push the imaginary camera control from my laptop to move the camera from one end to the other now!
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: stlawus on January 04, 2022, 09:17:05 PM
    St. John Fisher could be an east region sleeper team.   They just dismantled Alfred who are a good defensive team with wins against Brockport and Ithaca.  SJF had 25 more shot attempts compared to AU.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: stlawus on January 14, 2022, 09:32:16 PM
    I would start keeping an eye on Utica.  9-2 after beating SJF in Rochester tonight while only allowing 56 points.  SJF had scored 95+ points the last 3 games.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: stlawus on January 15, 2022, 09:09:36 PM
    Not even 24 hours after I say to keep an eye on Utica they lose by 40 to Nazareth.  Naz quickly becoming strong E8 favorites.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on January 15, 2022, 11:22:55 PM
    Quote from: stlawus on January 15, 2022, 09:09:36 PM
    Not even 24 hours after I say to keep an eye on Utica they lose by 40 to Nazareth.  Naz quickly becoming strong E8 favorites.

    the E8 is weirdly layered this year. Naz, Fisher and Utica are all good to excellent. Sage and Alfred are fine I guess. Then you have four of the worst teams in the country all concentrated at the bottom of the same league. Keuka, Houghton, Hartwick and Elmira are a combined 3-43 this season.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: stlawus on January 15, 2022, 11:31:15 PM
    Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 15, 2022, 11:22:55 PM
    Quote from: stlawus on January 15, 2022, 09:09:36 PM
    Not even 24 hours after I say to keep an eye on Utica they lose by 40 to Nazareth.  Naz quickly becoming strong E8 favorites.

    the E8 is weirdly layered this year. Naz, Fisher and Utica are all good to excellent. Sage and Alfred are fine I guess. Then you have four of the worst teams in the country all concentrated at the bottom of the same league. Keuka, Houghton, Hartwick and Elmira are a combined 3-43 this season.

    Elmira played Naz relatively close which was odd.   Alfred has a good team with some solid wins against Brockport, Ithaca and Geneseo but they have 4 starters out right now which cost them against Sage.   
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Caz Bombers on February 02, 2022, 09:57:05 PM
    two final scores on two consecutive nights, presented without comment:

    Alfred 106, Keuka 68

    Keuka 74, Alfred 72
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: stlawus on February 02, 2022, 10:42:49 PM
    Alfred has had a very strange year.   Beat Ithaca and Brockport and now lost to Keuka. 
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 03, 2022, 11:39:58 AM
    The Hoopsville Marathon is here!

    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=6pwgx/r9wqvnwufi9rtj30.jpg)

    The show is hitting the air at 12:00 PM ET and going for at least NINE hours for the 8th Annual Hoopsville Marathon Show.

    Show link: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2021-22/marathon

    This year's show featured coaches, administrators, student-athletes, and many others around Division III who gave us a sense of the season to date and what is to come. There is only a month or so left in the regular season, so there was plenty to talk about.

    The marathon is also a chance to celebrate the final month of the Division III basketball regular season.

    Guests include (in order of appearance, subject to change):
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2022, 03:48:36 PM
    Week 2 Regional Rankings - which are ranked now: https://d3hoops.com/notables/2022/02/men-regional-rankings-first
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2022, 05:24:19 PM
    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=7twpu/z39bugp32053poh2.jpg)

    Thursday on Hoopsville, we catch up with a number of teams which realize they have to keep winning this week if they want to keep playing next week. "There is no more next game ..."

    There are plenty of guests to talk to, so we are jamming them into a super-sized show. Some have quietly emerged on top, or near the top, of their conference races and hope to use home court advantage to win an automatic bid. Others knowing they have to win to make sure to keep playing this season. And one coach who shows that there is a lot of things that are important during basketball season.


    Guests include (order subject to change):

    Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the NABC Studio. All guests appear on the BlueFrame Technology (http://www.blueframetech.com) Hoopsville Hotline.

    Watch the show here: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2021-22/feb24
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: stlawus on February 25, 2023, 06:10:34 PM
    Ewing Theory in effect for St. John Fisher?  2 of their best players got dismissed from the team halfway through the season and the team goes on a tear winning the AQ.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: PoppersMacsLive on February 25, 2023, 08:27:30 PM
    That's what we call Addition by Subtraction.

    Quote from: stlawus on February 25, 2023, 06:10:34 PM
    Ewing Theory in effect for St. John Fisher?  2 of their best players got dismissed from the team halfway through the season and the team goes on a tear winning the AQ.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 16, 2023, 01:39:17 PM
    Quote from: stlawus on February 25, 2023, 06:10:34 PM
    Ewing Theory in effect for St. John Fisher?  2 of their best players got dismissed from the team halfway through the season and the team goes on a tear winning the AQ.

    I don't know anything about this, but were they actually dismissed from the team? Looks like they were both grad students. Studies come first and they quit? Just curious.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: stlawus on March 16, 2023, 02:47:30 PM
    One game I streamed the SJF commentary team said they were dismissed.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 19, 2023, 08:40:17 PM
    Quote from: stlawus on March 16, 2023, 02:47:30 PM
    One game I streamed the SJF commentary team said they were dismissed.

    Thanks.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 27, 2023, 10:59:56 PM
    https://nazathletics.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster

    Naz roster is out. They lose Park and Zach Stenglein, but Blankenberg and Haggard are back for grad years. So, they return 4 of their top 5 guys.
    Title: Re: Empire 8
    Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2023, 12:21:29 PM
    Utica also has some guys back for a 5th year, so Fisher, Naz and Utica should all battle it out again.  Alfred lost too much for me to think they could sneak into the top 3.