MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


I've seen good portions of three NCC games and lesser portions of several others.  I'm just not sure they've shown the consistency to be ranked right now.  I have voted for them this year and I think they've got the talent to be there - results matter going forward.

As for IWU, I actually moved them up in my last ballot.  I thought they looked better losing to Whitman and UWSP than they did in their other losses (and most of their wins, for that matter).  I think that team is good - they were playing well early and seemed to have regained form over the break.  I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt right now.

It's still a crap shoot until conference plays evens things out, anyway.  You could have four CCIW schools in your ballot easily or it could be four NESCAC schools - or some combination of both or many fewer.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2019, 10:30:17 PMAs to NCC, I forgot that NPU was so long ago, and didn't realize ONU was such a bad loss - I'm still a bit surprised that a 12-3 CCIW team would not get even a single vote; I guess we just don't have the rep we used to have.

I don't think that you're looking at this the way that most of the pollsters do, Chuck. Ryan and/or Pat can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that pollsters consider strength of conference that much (if at all) when they assemble their ballots for the first poll after New Year's Day. Many, if not most, conferences haven't even started play yet. Even for CCIW teams, whose results to date include about 20-30% CCIW content, it's still mostly about non-conference play at this point.

If we're having this conversation a month from now, and the CCIW is still starving (relatively speaking) for representation in the Top 25 poll, then you can talk about the league's rep taking a hit this season.

Quote from: WUPHF on January 07, 2019, 11:56:27 PM
Dear old DHU...

Oh, man that is funny.

Also, Alma has three wins?

I wouldn't get too excited about Alma just yet. Yeah, the Scots have won three in a row, but none of those three victims has a winning record. The cumulative record of that trio, losses to the Scots excepted, is 13-22 (.371). Tomorrow night the Scots host Albion, which is 9-4 and tied with the Scots for first in the MIAA at 2-0, so we'll see then if Alma's worth taking seriously.

(The MIAA currently has an extraordinarily rare case of what I call "barefoot standings"; with neither Hope nor Calvin leading the league, the MIAA is shoeless at the top. ;) )

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2019, 06:37:11 AM

I've seen good portions of three NCC games and lesser portions of several others.  I'm just not sure they've shown the consistency to be ranked right now.  I have voted for them this year and I think they've got the talent to be there - results matter going forward.

So much of that is really about NCC sorting out its new rotation in the post-Chang, post-Bronec era. It's not just about Jones, Clausel, and Koth contributing more often the way that they did against Elmhurst -- although Todd Raridon would certainly love that -- it's about Pollack re-emerging from the funk he's been in for a month now, and it's about NCC's second-best all-around player getting his groove back at the offensive end of the floor (cappelletti is apparently the Italian word for "streaky" ;)).
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

One of our ace numbers-crunchers, along with KnightSlappy, is fantastic50, who is an associate professor of mathematics & computer science at Wooster. No moss grows on fantastic50, who has already posted his first regional rankings guesses on the Pool C board. Here's how his Central Region looks:

Quote from: fantastic50 on January 08, 2019, 02:22:45 PM
Central region
1) UW-Stevens_Point (10-2, 2-0 WIAC, 0.833 WP, 0.605 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
2) Augustana (13-1, 5-0 CCIW, 0.929 WP, 0.541 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
3) UW-Whitewater (11-2, 0-2 WIAC, 0.846 WP, 0.571 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
4) Wheaton_(Ill.) (10-4, 3-2 CCIW, 0.714 WP, 0.567 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
5) North_Central_(Ill.) (12-3, 4-2 CCIW, 0.800 WP, 0.525 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
6) UW-La_Crosse (9-4, 2-0 WIAC, 0.692 WP, 0.561 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
7) Chicago (8-4, 1-0 UAA, 0.667 WP, 0.571 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
8) UW-Oshkosh (12-1, 2-0 WIAC, 0.923 WP, 0.482 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
----------
9) Elmhurst (9-5, 4-1 CCIW, 0.643 WP, 0.585 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
10) Illinois_Wesleyan (9-5, 2-3 CCIW, 0.643 WP, 0.569 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
11) UW-Eau_Claire (9-4, 2-0 WIAC, 0.692 WP, 0.480 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Titan Q

Illinois Wesleyan (9-5, 2-3) vs North Central (12-3, 4-2), Wednesday 7pm...

Titans (9-5, 2-3)
G - Brady Rose, 6-3/185 Sr.  20.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg
G - Colin Bonnett, 6-4/190 Sr.  12.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 3.0 apg
G - Jason Gregoire, 6-4/205 Sr.  11.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 2.4 apg
F - Charlie Bair, 6-7/205 So.  7.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg
C - Alex O'Neill, 6-9/245 Jr.  8.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg

Cardinals (12-3, 4-2)
G - Aaron Jones, 6-0/175 Jr.  6.0 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 1.3 apg
G - Tommy Koth, 6-3/175 Sr.  4.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.8 rpg
G - Blaise Meredith, 6-4/180 So.  11.2 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 1.5 apg
F - Matt Cappelletti, 6-5/210 Jr.  15.0 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 2.1 apg
F - Connor Raridon, 6-6/215 Jr.  17.5 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 5.0 apg


Pantagraph - https://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/iwu-battles-north-central-in-cciw/article_e59e9a02-42b0-56ce-a7fc-cad7351ed480.html

Video/Stats - https://portal.stretchinternet.com/iwu/

WEXG Radio - https://radio.securenetsystems.net/v5/index.cfm?stationCallSign=WWHP

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 08, 2019, 02:22:27 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2019, 10:30:17 PMAs to NCC, I forgot that NPU was so long ago, and didn't realize ONU was such a bad loss - I'm still a bit surprised that a 12-3 CCIW team would not get even a single vote; I guess we just don't have the rep we used to have.

I don't think that you're looking at this the way that most of the pollsters do, Chuck. Ryan and/or Pat can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that pollsters consider strength of conference that much (if at all) when they assemble their ballots for the first poll after New Year's Day. Many, if not most, conferences haven't even started play yet. Even for CCIW teams, whose results to date include about 20-30% CCIW content, it's still mostly about non-conference play at this point.

I don't consider conference ever, really.  I look at wins and losses - if a team plays in a good conference, the teams on their schedules will be better, so it will reflect in the individual schedule.  Losing to the CCIW's 5th place team is almost always better than losing to the SLIAC's 5th best team.  That kind of thing.  I'm not going to reward or penalize a team just for the conference in which they play.  Being in a conference affects the schedule and that's typically how I judge - or at least where I begin in the rankings (I do typically go back over my Top 25 and match the teams up in my head, would I pick #17 to beat #18, that kind of thing, towards the end of the process).
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Titan Q

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2019, 06:39:39 AM

I don't consider conference ever, really.  I look at wins and losses - if a team plays in a good conference, the teams on their schedules will be better, so it will reflect in the individual schedule.  Losing to the CCIW's 5th place team is almost always better than losing to the SLIAC's 5th best team.  That kind of thing.  I'm not going to reward or penalize a team just for the conference in which they play.  Being in a conference affects the schedule and that's typically how I judge - or at least where I begin in the rankings (I do typically go back over my Top 25 and match the teams up in my head, would I pick #17 to beat #18, that kind of thing, towards the end of the process).

Same for me.

Greek Tragedy

There's actually only 6 conferences that start league play  AFTER the new year. WIAC, NEWMAC, MIAA, NESCAC, MASCAC and UAA. Some conferencs start league play in mid-November. However, a few conferences that start before the new year only play one game.
Pointers
Breed of a Champion
2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

Fantasy Leagues Commissioner

TGHIJGSTO!!!

Gregory Sager

Massey sez:

Augustana 78, Elmhurst 67 (AC 86%, EC 14%)
Carroll 69, Carthage 67 (CU 57%, CC 43%)
Illinois Wesleyan 75, North Central 71 (IWU 63%, NCC 37%)
Wheaton 81, Millikin 74 (WC 74%, MU 26%)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

voxelmhurst

Elmhurst plays 5 of their next 6 at home and their next 4 games include two vs Augustana, and one against both Illinois Wesleyan and Wheaton. If Elmhurst is to make any run during this incredibly tough stretch, they can really help their cause by matching the defensive intensity they showed during the first half last Saturday night @ North Central. The effort was lost in the second half debacle, but that first half was some of the best D I've seen Elmhurst play in sometime.


In other news out of Elmhurst. Elmhurst AD Paul Krohn is taking a new position at the College starting July 1, and a search for a new AD will begin:

https://cciw.org/news/2019/1/9/general-elmhurst-college-athletic-director-paul-krohn-to-tackle-new-role.aspx

If this is the beginning of the process for improving Elmhurst's facilities (including their very outdated basketball court), than this is (potentially) very encouraging news.

John Gleich

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 08, 2019, 02:37:43 PM
One of our ace numbers-crunchers, along with KnightSlappy, is fantastic50, who is an associate professor of mathematics & computer science at Wooster. No moss grows on fantastic50, who has already posted his first regional rankings guesses on the Pool C board. Here's how his Central Region looks:

Quote from: fantastic50 on January 08, 2019, 02:22:45 PM
Central region
1) UW-Stevens_Point (10-2, 2-0 WIAC, 0.833 WP, 0.605 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
2) Augustana (13-1, 5-0 CCIW, 0.929 WP, 0.541 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
3) UW-Whitewater (11-2, 0-2 WIAC, 0.846 WP, 0.571 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
4) Wheaton_(Ill.) (10-4, 3-2 CCIW, 0.714 WP, 0.567 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
5) North_Central_(Ill.) (12-3, 4-2 CCIW, 0.800 WP, 0.525 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
6) UW-La_Crosse (9-4, 2-0 WIAC, 0.692 WP, 0.561 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
7) Chicago (8-4, 1-0 UAA, 0.667 WP, 0.571 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
8) UW-Oshkosh (12-1, 2-0 WIAC, 0.923 WP, 0.482 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
----------
9) Elmhurst (9-5, 4-1 CCIW, 0.643 WP, 0.585 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
10) Illinois_Wesleyan (9-5, 2-3 CCIW, 0.643 WP, 0.569 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
11) UW-Eau_Claire (9-4, 2-0 WIAC, 0.692 WP, 0.480 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)

I know that the above is more objective than subjective... but I (subjectively) think that this might look a little different:

1. Augie (^1, better WP, H2H win over UWSP)
2. UWSP
3. UWW
4. North Central (^1, Better WP, H2H win over Wheaton)
5. Wheaton (H2H win over Oshkosh)
6. Oshkosh (^2, WP much higher than those below)
7. UWL
8. Chicago

It just feels weird having Oshkosh so low. Their SOS is low, but they've competed well against their schedule. Big test tonight... Oshkosh travels to UWSP, so this could get shaken up (and their SOS will improve)
UWSP Men's Basketball

National Champions: 2015, 2010, 2005, 2004

NCAA appearances: 2018, '15, '14, '13, '12, '11, '10, '09, '08, '07, '05, '04, '03, '00, 1997

WIAC/WSUC Champs: 2015, '14, '13, '11, '09, '07, '05, '03, '02, '01, '00, 1993, '92, '87, '86, '85, '84, '83, '82, '69, '61, '57, '48, '42, '37, '36, '35, '33, '18

Twitter: @JohnGleich

Titan Q

Quote from: John Gleich on January 09, 2019, 01:41:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 08, 2019, 02:37:43 PM
One of our ace numbers-crunchers, along with KnightSlappy, is fantastic50, who is an associate professor of mathematics & computer science at Wooster. No moss grows on fantastic50, who has already posted his first regional rankings guesses on the Pool C board. Here's how his Central Region looks:

Quote from: fantastic50 on January 08, 2019, 02:22:45 PM
Central region
1) UW-Stevens_Point (10-2, 2-0 WIAC, 0.833 WP, 0.605 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
2) Augustana (13-1, 5-0 CCIW, 0.929 WP, 0.541 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
3) UW-Whitewater (11-2, 0-2 WIAC, 0.846 WP, 0.571 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
4) Wheaton_(Ill.) (10-4, 3-2 CCIW, 0.714 WP, 0.567 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
5) North_Central_(Ill.) (12-3, 4-2 CCIW, 0.800 WP, 0.525 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
6) UW-La_Crosse (9-4, 2-0 WIAC, 0.692 WP, 0.561 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
7) Chicago (8-4, 1-0 UAA, 0.667 WP, 0.571 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
8) UW-Oshkosh (12-1, 2-0 WIAC, 0.923 WP, 0.482 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
----------
9) Elmhurst (9-5, 4-1 CCIW, 0.643 WP, 0.585 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
10) Illinois_Wesleyan (9-5, 2-3 CCIW, 0.643 WP, 0.569 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
11) UW-Eau_Claire (9-4, 2-0 WIAC, 0.692 WP, 0.480 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)

I know that the above is more objective than subjective... but I (subjectively) think that this might look a little different:

1. Augie (^1, better WP, H2H win over UWSP)
2. UWSP
3. UWW
4. North Central (^1, Better WP, H2H win over Wheaton)
5. Wheaton (H2H win over Oshkosh)
6. Oshkosh (^2, WP much higher than those below)
7. UWL
8. Chicago

It just feels weird having Oshkosh so low. Their SOS is low, but they've competed well against their schedule. Big test tonight... Oshkosh travels to UWSP, so this could get shaken up (and their SOS will improve)

I think IWU would most likely be ahead of Chicago there due to the head-to-head result.

John Gleich

Quote from: Titan Q on January 09, 2019, 01:50:58 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on January 09, 2019, 01:41:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 08, 2019, 02:37:43 PM
One of our ace numbers-crunchers, along with KnightSlappy, is fantastic50, who is an associate professor of mathematics & computer science at Wooster. No moss grows on fantastic50, who has already posted his first regional rankings guesses on the Pool C board. Here's how his Central Region looks:

Quote from: fantastic50 on January 08, 2019, 02:22:45 PM
Central region
1) UW-Stevens_Point (10-2, 2-0 WIAC, 0.833 WP, 0.605 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
2) Augustana (13-1, 5-0 CCIW, 0.929 WP, 0.541 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
3) UW-Whitewater (11-2, 0-2 WIAC, 0.846 WP, 0.571 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
4) Wheaton_(Ill.) (10-4, 3-2 CCIW, 0.714 WP, 0.567 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
5) North_Central_(Ill.) (12-3, 4-2 CCIW, 0.800 WP, 0.525 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
6) UW-La_Crosse (9-4, 2-0 WIAC, 0.692 WP, 0.561 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
7) Chicago (8-4, 1-0 UAA, 0.667 WP, 0.571 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
8) UW-Oshkosh (12-1, 2-0 WIAC, 0.923 WP, 0.482 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
----------
9) Elmhurst (9-5, 4-1 CCIW, 0.643 WP, 0.585 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
10) Illinois_Wesleyan (9-5, 2-3 CCIW, 0.643 WP, 0.569 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)
11) UW-Eau_Claire (9-4, 2-0 WIAC, 0.692 WP, 0.480 SOS, 0-0 vRRO)

I know that the above is more objective than subjective... but I (subjectively) think that this might look a little different:

1. Augie (^1, better WP, H2H win over UWSP)
2. UWSP
3. UWW
4. North Central (^1, Better WP, H2H win over Wheaton)
5. Wheaton (H2H win over Oshkosh)
6. Oshkosh (^2, WP much higher than those below)
7. UWL
8. Chicago

It just feels weird having Oshkosh so low. Their SOS is low, but they've competed well against their schedule. Big test tonight... Oshkosh travels to UWSP, so this could get shaken up (and their SOS will improve)

I think IWU would most likely be ahead of Chicago there due to the head-to-head result.

That's absolutely fair. TBH, I didn't look "below the line." I agree.
UWSP Men's Basketball

National Champions: 2015, 2010, 2005, 2004

NCAA appearances: 2018, '15, '14, '13, '12, '11, '10, '09, '08, '07, '05, '04, '03, '00, 1997

WIAC/WSUC Champs: 2015, '14, '13, '11, '09, '07, '05, '03, '02, '01, '00, 1993, '92, '87, '86, '85, '84, '83, '82, '69, '61, '57, '48, '42, '37, '36, '35, '33, '18

Twitter: @JohnGleich

Mr. Ypsi

Final in B'town: NCC 85, IWU 83.  This was a game the Titans should have won, and desperately needed to win.  Barring a monumental winning streak, their only hope for the post-season now is winning the conference tourney, and even in the years they've gone to Salem, they have NEVER won the conference tourney.  I'm losing hope.

Titan Q

#49588
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2019, 09:51:30 PM
Final in B'town: NCC 85, IWU 83.  This was a game the Titans should have won, and desperately needed to win.  Barring a monumental winning streak, their only hope for the post-season now is winning the conference tourney, and even in the years they've gone to Salem, they have NEVER won the conference tourney.  I'm losing hope.

That was a tough one.

IWU led 80-72 with 2:02 to play and lost again.

Augie15