BB: General New England Discussion

Started by Paul Heering, February 14, 2007, 06:14:24 PM

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DougiesGoinDeep

Moc...

If it makes you feel any better, in my opinion Wheaton has played there last game and will NOT receive an at large bid this year. There is no way you can justify them getting into a regional with a very average record this year. I have absolutely no idea how Wheaton is even still ranked in the top 10 in New England in this recent poll. Babson has proven this year that they are the best team in the NEWMAC and rightfully so, they have earned their trip to the NE regional. All Wheaton has done this year is under achieve with some bad losses. However, there is just too much talent between USM, Trinity and ECSU to think that anyone can compete with them in the NE regional. USM has a ridiculous offense to go along with some above average pitchers, Trinity has arguably the best pitcher in all of D3 in Bayer and probably the second best offense behind USM with Killeen, Graham and Wood, and ECSU has the depth to win the regional with a very strong senior class led by Gilblair and the ability to beat anyone on any given day. I just don't see anyone upsetting these 3 teams in the regional. My pick is still USM, but I think Trinity could also make a run if Bayer can pitch 2 of the 4 or 5 games.   

OshDude

Quote from: mans007 on April 30, 2009, 11:32:07 PM
moc, and to everyone else who is not aware.  A few years back the ncaa div 3 powers that be created a regional point system.  So, therefore when the committe meets to pick the regionals it is now pretty cut and dry.  At large teams are picked by there regional points, period. There are no more bias or bangwagon voting. You beat good teams in region and you will amass enough points to get an at large bid. Win your conference tourney or beat as many good in region teams as possible. Other then that you don't have much else to complain about.
Not used anymore.

KSCfan

moc welcome to the board.  As a keene state guy i have seen the owls battle babson and wheaton over the last 4 or 5 years, with relative success against both of them.  Babson had a great year and they are in and for that i am excited.  They have a great program, a gream coach, and a great field.  I think that they can compete with anyone in NE on any given day.  I know that everyone praises Wheaton, and i think for good reason over the last couple of seasons.  They have a winning program and they are year in and year out one of the elite programs in NE.  Now that being said they did have an off year and they should not get in, Keene experianced this same thing in 2006 when they where snubbed with a 31-14 record while Eastern, and USM got in, after Keene had beaten Eastern three times that year, and USM in the semis of the LEC tournament.  I guess you can say it was Keenes own fault for failing to win the tournament that year but its tough for programs to get the "national press" to start.  If you see Babson make a bit or a run this year in the regionals, and then put together another couple of regional runs you will see them get thier press just like Wheaton.  That is what Keene has and is doing right now.  THey play in the toughest d3 conference in the country with two teams that have 6 National Titles betweeen them.  USM and Eastern are "known" and rightfully so around the country.  It took a couple of years for Keene to get "thier press" and like Keene i am sure that Babson will get thiers too.

wordsmith

#753
Quote from: moc323 on April 30, 2009, 07:39:18 PM
::)  I'm new to D3 boards this year, so, fair game for all other "in the know."   I have read all the New England discussions/comments over the past 2 seasons however and have now seen enough Babson snubbing and ridiculing.  Remember last season, when these beavers (Ward, June Wally and "the Beave") were left out of the invitations, by the powers to be?   There were many whom felt Babson was one of the top 3 "just out"/bubble teams even though they are 8-5 vs "The Wheaties" over the last few seasons.....including, "YES" , 3 of 4 this year---and the NEWMAC conference tourney rounds 2 and 3 sweeping of the ? # 3, 6, 8. 12. 15?? team in the U.S. IN D3 STILL, CURRENTLY?   If anyone chiming in on these boards watched a few NEWMAC games, there'd be much fewer boards loaded with Wheaties praise and much more praise for Babson and W.P.I this year.   Of course, the NEWMAC tourney, which Babson swept through 4-0 with 2 wins over Wheaton, to take them out,single handedly... (and yet Babson is still not ranked in TOP 25 Nationally, nor in Top 10 IN NEW ENGLAND even???)  Obviously, like everything else, politics must be involved in the D3 ranking system....
WPI is number 6 or 7 in New England now, are they?---and Wheaton somehow still shows up at # 4, or 5 is it?   Hmmm..  I guess the NEWMAC tourney was a fluke?    Let's see---yesterday's scores----ECSU 11-0 over those same, highly ranked, never to be moved from TOP 5 NEW ENGLAND regional rankings/ Wheaties ?    Someone involved in the invite process needs to pay a little closer attn to New England, in general maybe?  They also seem to consider this the $#%@ CONFERENCE....?   
Last Year's champ but have been a fluke also---wasn't Trinity about 43-0 going into the National finals?     Wheaton is ranked right nexto to them, while Babson doesn't get 1 vote for top 10 in New England?    I guess their out of conference schedule should be tougher next year, as they ONLY played, Southern Maine, TRINITY, Tufts, Curry, Rhode Island Coll, ECSU and Keene State maybe this year and/or last year?   Let's not forget 4 games vs Wheaton and 2 more vs W.P.I. this year...   Everyone, please Stop THE WHEATON BIAS, ALL THE WAY FROM THE TOP OF THE D3 committee, down to us know nothing, New England fans......  It's like N.Y. Yankee praise.....WHICH WAS ALSO APPROPRIATE---WHEN THEY WERE WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS.      Sorry, if my 1st entry seems a little harsh....it's not aimed at anyone in specific, just a little tired of 2 years of reading nothing but, "breakfast of champions" praise....    I think they are averaging about 4 errors per game the past 3 weeks---"crunch time??" 

Babson Beavers are now the Rodney Dangerfields of the NorthEast ???

I don't get no Respect! :-X :-\ :'( :-* :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCCDD7VXEc&feature=related


Get in line Babson, when you play in a region with the likes of USM, Wheaton, EastConn, Trinity, as established national powerhouses, and the likes of KSC, WNEC, St. Joe's as programs on the verge of it, get in line.

Word 8)

Word

moc323

Quote from: mans007 on April 30, 2009, 11:32:07 PM
moc, and to everyone else who is not aware.  A few years back the ncaa div 3 powers that be created a regional point system.  So, therefore when the committe meets to pick the regionals it is now pretty cut and dry.  At large teams are picked by there regional points, period. There are no more bias or bangwagon voting. You beat good teams in region and you will amass enough points to get an at large bid. Win your conference tourney or beat as many good in region teams as possible. Other then that you don't have much else to complain about.

Thanks, Mans007---I was unaware of the committee's regional "point system", which actually makes some sense.   Is the point sytem published for fans to view?   Since every other imaginable stat for every team/player is provided, wouldn't it make sense for them to show whatever "point system" they do us, at selection time to all involved? 
If you say it's "cut and dry"....and no-one should have any gripes if not selected....  where are the point standings within each region shown?   I know they show regional record and overall record in top 10 regional ranking list each week now, but...ther are some teams in the top ten, whom are ahead of others in region--even though their record within region is not better?    Also, for teams in New England--specifically, LEC, when you have 3 0r 4 teams Nationally ranked in top 10-15 all year---they would all receive at large bids--if they don't win conf tourney, based on that point system, right?  If they are in the toughest region in the U.S.  and have to play ECSU, Trinity and USM twice each----are any of those "regional, but also conference, wins counted in this point system you refer to---or, is it only for games outside your conference?   thanks again for the point system info...   MOC

KSCfan

Moc- i think that Oshdude said above that they dont use that points system anymore

OshDude

Quote from: KSCfan on May 01, 2009, 10:31:31 AM
Moc- i think that Oshdude said above that they dont use that points system anymore
Thankfully the NCAA no longer uses it. It was amazing, but the QoWI was scrapped after the 2007 season.

moc323

Quote from: DougiesGoinDeep on May 01, 2009, 01:39:16 AM
Moc...

If it makes you feel any better, in my opinion Wheaton has played there last game and will NOT receive an at large bid this year. There is no way you can justify them getting into a regional with a very average record this year. I have absolutely no idea how Wheaton is even still ranked in the top 10 in New England in this recent poll. Babson has proven this year that they are the best team in the NEWMAC and rightfully so, they have earned their trip to the NE regional. All Wheaton has done this year is under achieve with some bad losses. However, there is just too much talent between USM, Trinity and ECSU to think that anyone can compete with them in the NE regional. USM has a ridiculous offense to go along with some above average pitchers, Trinity has arguably the best pitcher in all of D3 in Bayer and probably the second best offense behind USM with Killeen, Graham and Wood, and ECSU has the depth to win the regional with a very strong senior class led by Gilblair and the ability to beat anyone on any given day. I just don't see anyone upsetting these 3 teams in the regional. My pick is still USM, but I think Trinity could also make a run if Bayer can pitch 2 of the 4 or 5 games.   
8)     

Dougiesgoindeep---I agree USM, Trinity, ECSU will be tough to take out, per the double elim format, as they will eventually "hit" their way back to the semis from any possible 1st round defeat at the hands of someone like Babson, Wheaton (if invited) Curry, Suffolk, etc etc....but, as we all know from playing, observing, coaching baseball games since our youth......a strong performance by a top notch starter can quiet ANY batting lineup---for any one game.    Any one of these three can be beaten on day one, if a lower seed gets a 9 out of 10 effort by their starting p.     Once that happens---if it does---that top seed can then be in big trouble, as far as being able to climb all the way back to win the region.   All 3 top seeds know they will have the pressure on them to get game 1....because those other 2 top seeds probably will be in winners' bracket.   If WNEC, Babson and Wheaton all end up as the "lower" seeds----don't bet the mortgage against all 3 of them in round 1....    As you have seen in last 24 hours on these boards---I've been the biggest Wheaton basher--or, disbeliever to be polite, for this season----but--they certainly do have enough all around batting talent and an All american/Gingras starting for them---not to mention Josh Simmons as closer in any close game late...     Babson has Aizenstadt--rookie of year last year---and 6-1 starter this season, with a rare save in finals of NEWMAC tourney also.......zero earned runs his last few starts (and 1 save) combined.    If they can get a round 1 win---watch out---3 very good starters follow Aizenstadt---thus the 4-0 sweep through their tourney.      I know college baseball is a hitting league, in general, with several teams batting well over .300 each year, so, eventually those teams do show up at the end.   Not too many of them have the 4 quality starters Babson has though----so, they can be equalizers?      For a team like Trinity to go 43-0 or more last year...and almost run the whole table through the Nationals....they obviously weren't "stopped" by anyone!   USM never stops hitting, nor does Trinity as you say.  ECSU is always solid, top to bottom.    Any of these 3 would be almost impossible to take down, in a best of 7 series.   The good news for all others is:  it's not best of 7 !!     Too bad all 3 may be in same regionals.....      Would love to believe Wheaton will be absent, but....they still show up as # 15 Nationally, # 4 in NEW ENG?     TRAVESTY......

moc323

KSCfan-----belated "thanks" for the D3 bb welcome you extended my way....Most of you guys are far ahead of me, in the D3 teams knowlege, in general-----as, I've sorta been locked in, locally, to the NEWMAC conference, along with a few others nearby me-- WNEC, Westfield State, etc.    I've seen just a few of the powerhouses, Keene State, ECSU, USM, Trinity games over the past 2 seasons---so, am not qualifies to judge their individual talents...by any means..    Their overall and regional records do speak for themselves--no doubt there. 
I've enjoyed reading all of the D3 New England discussions you guys have been having over those 2 years---and finally decided to join in.    Thanks for the window:)))

Stump

moc323,
  Glad you joined in the discussions. It's great having more people talking baseball. There are a lot of knowledge that gets shared on these boards. We can't see everybody but you can really get a good idea of how the different conferences shape up by reading the posts. I know I feel like I know the LEC pretty well and I've only seen USM and KSC this year.(and only USM in person, KSC on web)
It's like a family. Sometimes there are some pretty good squabbles(see the LEC board)and some real rivalries but it's all pretty good natured.  And then there's always wordsmith for a little different perspective on things ;) Thanks Word ;D :D

So welcome aboard and enjoy the ride :)

moc323

Quote from: Stump on May 01, 2009, 09:36:45 PM
moc323,
  Glad you joined in the discussions. It's great having more people talking baseball. There are a lot of knowledge that gets shared on these boards. We can't see everybody but you can really get a good idea of how the different conferences shape up by reading the posts. I know I feel like I know the LEC pretty well and I've only seen USM and KSC this year.(and only USM in person, KSC on web)
It's like a family. Sometimes there are some pretty good squabbles(see the LEC board)and some real rivalries but it's all pretty good natured.  And then there's always wordsmith for a little different perspective on things ;) Thanks Word ;D :D

So welcome aboard and enjoy the ride :)

Thanks Stump.....much appreciated.  It is all in good fun, as you say---and I also enjoy the LEC squabbles for added entertainment.   I need to work on navigating around these BB better, as I don't always find my way back to where I want to go, looking for replies...   growing pains:))    c'est la vie !   If you don't like baseball---you aren't American !!   (almost sounds like a Yogi- ism, tho maybe not flawed enough:))   

mans007

The point system is still being used. It is actually the reason ECSU goes to Arizona now. More teams from the northeast. They would play better competition in cali but they had to do it.

dgilblair

Quote from: mans007 on May 01, 2009, 11:06:40 PM
The point system is still being used. It is actually the reason ECSU goes to Arizona now. More teams from the northeast. They would play better competition in cali but they had to do it.

Thats funny coach H said it was because they changed the week of spring break and we couldn't get the games we wanted.  You could have a point though, it makes better sense.

OshDude

Quote from: mans007 on May 01, 2009, 11:06:40 PM
The point system is still being used. It is actually the reason ECSU goes to Arizona now. More teams from the northeast. They would play better competition in cali but they had to do it.
Do you mean the QoWI (teams were awarded points for home/road, wins/losses in a tiered system based on in-region winning percentages)? If that's what you're referencing, it was last used in 2007. Please believe me.

Straight from the 2009 Handbook, which looks very similar to the 2008 Handbook ... not a point system to be found:
Selection Criteria.
Primary Criteria
The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA
championships); all criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order).
• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP).
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).
• See Appendix B for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results versus common regional opponents.
• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.
• Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at the time of the rankings/
selection process only.
• Conference postseason contests are included.
• Contests versus provisional and reclassifying members in their third and fourth
years shall count in the primary criteria. Provisional and reclassifying members
shall remain ineligible for rankings and selection.
Secondary Criteria
If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision, the secondary criteria will be
reviewed. All the criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order). The secondary criteria
introduce results against out-of-region Division III and all other opponents including those contests
versus opponents from other classifications (i.e., provisionals, NAIA, NCAA Divisions I and II).
• Out-of-region head-to-head competition.
• Overall Division III win-loss percentage.
• Results versus common non Division III opponents.
• Results versus all Division III ranked teams.
• Overall win-loss percentage.
• Results versus all common opponents.
• Overall DIII Strength of Schedule.

dgilblair

For those who would like to listen to the WNEC vs Curry game.  http://www.curry.edu/Athletics/  Lower righthand side of the page.