MBB: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation

Started by Dave 'd-mac' McHugh, December 11, 2013, 10:12:58 PM

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kate

A few household chores later here, but the only reason I can see "like minded" small private colleges banding together would be to do joint research projects and to apply for grants.  Personally I don't see the athletic departments entering the equation - just my opinion.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Kate - I associated with a number of small schools... working for none of them full-time. In fact, I am working for Stevenson, McDaniel and Goucher primiary this academic year while also doing work for Messiah and St. Mary's while possibly doing some consulting for several other schools not only in the Mid-Atlantic, but also the Atlantic region and others around the country. That is the life of a consultant, broadcaster and producer/director in a freelance world. And with my work for D3sports.com... my "allegiance" is to no one in particular let alone a region, conference or team... so something like regional realignment is looked at by me in an overall point of view.

As for "like-minded" decisions, let's not forget one major thing... being this is Division III... it is all about the academics and the athletics are second. The big boys in D1 do worry about the money and thus the athletics take on a more athlete-student point of view. Schools in Division III do think and act per academics first and sometimes conferences have academic cooperation as well and thus like-minded has an element of academic cooperation as well.

So yes... there is more than athletics involved and academics is part of it as you allude to regarding research projects and far more (even academic schedules!).

I understand there are those who get frustrated by these decisions by other schools and such... but it isn't something that is simple or taken lightly. There are more than coaches involved... there are ADs, Presidents and even professors who take part in these things.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

kate

Dave, thank you for your quick response.  Someday, before I'm physically unable to make it out to my beloved Aggie games, I would love to sit down with knowledgeable people & discuss this.  Please believe me, I'd like Nothing more than d3 sports to continue to grow!  Happy New Year!  Ps:  I certainly agree that it's about the academics!  A few wins along the way are icing on the cake :)

Reserved Seat

Not all D3 schools are academically-minded when it comes to sports. ;D

Clutch

thinking its time for some to join the NAIA. 

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Not sure what happened to the results of the last poll... but I have started a new one. Enjoy.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

CCHoopster

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 03, 2014, 04:40:36 PM
Not sure what happened to the results of the last poll... but I have started a new one. Enjoy.

Dave:

How would you rank the conferences this year that you listed above?

Another question: If a ranked team loses a game/games on a neutral site compared to at home, how much more weight is carried between the two? Would Dickinson's win over Guilford at RMC be stronger if it were at Guilford? I guess the other side would be would Messiahs win be stronger since it was at Guilford? I've been looking for an example of this question and it played out perfect for me this week to ask with two Mid-Atlantic teams facing a ranked opponent at a neutral site and at the ranked teams home court.

Thanks! Great show so far!

Nice win for the Fords over DeSalles today.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: CCHoopster on January 05, 2014, 07:42:14 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 03, 2014, 04:40:36 PM
Not sure what happened to the results of the last poll... but I have started a new one. Enjoy.

Dave:

How would you rank the conferences this year that you listed above?

Another question: If a ranked team loses a game/games on a neutral site compared to at home, how much more weight is carried between the two? Would Dickinson's win over Guilford at RMC be stronger if it were at Guilford? I guess the other side would be would Messiahs win be stronger since it was at Guilford? I've been looking for an example of this question and it played out perfect for me this week to ask with two Mid-Atlantic teams facing a ranked opponent at a neutral site and at the ranked teams home court.

Thanks! Great show so far!

Nice win for the Fords over DeSalles today.

Ranking the conferences is tough for me as I don't think I have enough data as it were... but off the cuff top of my head for discussions sake:

1 - Capital Athletic
2 - MAC Commonwealth
3 - Landmark
4 - MAC Freedom
5 - Centennial
6 - Colonial States Athletic

As for how the games are weighed... I am assuming you aren't talking about that in a SOS point of view. My answer may surprise you... considering the games were all played in the holiday break,  travel and location aren't as big a deal for me. Neutral and home/away are equal because usually the stands are not that filled and not that crazy considering the student-bodies are at home, not at the games. Also per your example, Guilford has lost three in a row and that tells me a win isn't as big a deal as you would think (though, for each team it is still a significant win over a good team from a very difficult conference).

Now, Dickinson only traveled to Ashland, Virginia versus North Carolina as Messiah did to win their game, so I would think that Messiah's win is weighed more because of the travel. However, the distractions of classes isn't a factor and the student-athlete's schedule is easier than during the academic year... so a long trip isn't that challenging. The schedule isn't being squeezed into a tight academic schedule and students aren't on the bus tired from pulling all-nighters or studying on the bus for upcoming exams or papers.

I also consider coming back from break when teams are sometimes rusty versus playing a team after a couple of games are under your belt.

Now, to give you an answer... I would consider the Dickinson win to be weighed more since it was more in a "rusty" time of the year and was a huge point-spread. Messiah's win though is their first significant victory and tells me as a Top 25 voter their start to the season isn't just because they haven't really played any challenging teams.

Both teams are not in my Top 25 going into my current ballot and whether either makes and whom will depend on some of these factors and the rest of their resumes.

Does that make sense?
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

CCHoopster

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 05, 2014, 09:41:32 PM
Quote from: CCHoopster on January 05, 2014, 07:42:14 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 03, 2014, 04:40:36 PM
Not sure what happened to the results of the last poll... but I have started a new one. Enjoy.

Dave:

How would you rank the conferences this year that you listed above?

Another question: If a ranked team loses a game/games on a neutral site compared to at home, how much more weight is carried between the two? Would Dickinson's win over Guilford at RMC be stronger if it were at Guilford? I guess the other side would be would Messiahs win be stronger since it was at Guilford? I've been looking for an example of this question and it played out perfect for me this week to ask with two Mid-Atlantic teams facing a ranked opponent at a neutral site and at the ranked teams home court.

Thanks! Great show so far!

Nice win for the Fords over DeSalles today.

Ranking the conferences is tough for me as I don't think I have enough data as it were... but off the cuff top of my head for discussions sake:

1 - Capital Athletic
2 - MAC Commonwealth
3 - Landmark
4 - MAC Freedom
5 - Centennial
6 - Colonial States Athletic

As for how the games are weighed... I am assuming you aren't talking about that in a SOS point of view. My answer may surprise you... considering the games were all played in the holiday break,  travel and location aren't as big a deal for me. Neutral and home/away are equal because usually the stands are not that filled and not that crazy considering the student-bodies are at home, not at the games. Also per your example, Guilford has lost three in a row and that tells me a win isn't as big a deal as you would think (though, for each team it is still a significant win over a good team from a very difficult conference).

Now, Dickinson only traveled to Ashland, Virginia versus North Carolina as Messiah did to win their game, so I would think that Messiah's win is weighed more because of the travel. However, the distractions of classes isn't a factor and the student-athlete's schedule is easier than during the academic year... so a long trip isn't that challenging. The schedule isn't being squeezed into a tight academic schedule and students aren't on the bus tired from pulling all-nighters or studying on the bus for upcoming exams or papers.

I also consider coming back from break when teams are sometimes rusty versus playing a team after a couple of games are under your belt.

Now, to give you an answer... I would consider the Dickinson win to be weighed more since it was more in a "rusty" time of the year and was a huge point-spread. Messiah's win though is their first significant victory and tells me as a Top 25 voter their start to the season isn't just because they haven't really played any challenging teams.

Both teams are not in my Top 25 going into my current ballot and whether either makes and whom will depend on some of these factors and the rest of their resumes.

Does that make sense?

Makes perfect sense and exactly what I was looking for. Thanks, Dave. I'm assuming if Guilford was to right the ship and win a few games it would make those two wins for DC and MC stronger. Either way two good out of region wins for the Mid Atlantic Region.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Yeah... if Guilford figures things out again like they did before the break... those wins loom large for those schools. If Guilford runs through the conference, does well in the tournament, makes it to the NCAA tournament, etc. The biggest key for both teams is this: they played and beat Guilford away from home (SOS boost) while also playing a team in one of the toughest conferences in the country (which got four teams in the tourney last year) which brings with it a heck of an SOS impact... those facts could be key in February especially since their record doesn't have an extra loss (remember also that the regional record will be a team's overall record as long as they played all their games against Division III opponents and 70% of their games in-region).
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

gordonmann

CCHoopster:

Our Conference Guidebook compares the non-conference performance of all Mid-Atlantic Conferences last year to each other and all conferences nationally.

http://www.d3hoops.com/guidebook/2013-14/2013_Conference_Guidebook_-_Comparison.pdf

The statistics don't account for teams playing in different parts of the country.  It's easier to find non-conference teams you can schedule and beat in some regions than others.  But every time I do these stats I'm surprised how well the MAC Commonwealth fares.

And, for what it's worth, I think Dave's ranking is right based on what we know so far.  The CAC is shaping up to be a great battle between several teams in the top 50 nationally, while the other conferences will only have one team receiving Top 25 votes, if that.

CCHoopster

Quote from: NEPAFAN on December 12, 2013, 10:21:46 AM
my top four:


1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Scranton
4. Catholic

Anyone care to put up their current top 5 regional rankings?

I would go:

Cabrini
Wesley
Messiah
Dickinson
St. Mary's

ronk

Quote from: CCHoopster on January 14, 2014, 10:48:33 PM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on December 12, 2013, 10:21:46 AM
my top four:


1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Scranton
4. Catholic

Anyone care to put up their current top 5 regional rankings?

I would go:

Cabrini
Wesley
Messiah
Dickinson
St. Mary's

I'd stick Juniata 4th since they beat Dickinson @ Dickinson.

  I ran into St. Mary's Coach Harney on the recruiting trail tonight-he's a wonder with the 2-hr trip(1 way) on a foggy nite and a 3 1/2 hr trip to York tomorrow 4 a game.

CCHoopster

Quote from: ronk on January 15, 2014, 12:22:00 AM
Quote from: CCHoopster on January 14, 2014, 10:48:33 PM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on December 12, 2013, 10:21:46 AM
my top four:


1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Scranton
4. Catholic

Anyone care to put up their current top 5 regional rankings?

I would go:

Cabrini
Wesley
Messiah
Dickinson
St. Mary's

I'd stick Juniata 4th since they beat Dickinson @ Dickinson.

  I ran into St. Mary's Coach Harney on the recruiting trail tonight-he's a wonder with the 2-hr trip(1 way) on a foggy nite and a 3 1/2 hr trip to York tomorrow 4 a game.

I thought about Juniata but they lost to Washington and Jefferson. Their two losses are to W&J and Mt. Aloysius. Dickinson's are at RMC and home to Juniata. Hence the reason Juniata is receiving no Top 25 votes. Very good point though, that they beat Dickinson at home!

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

In the real world of regional rankings... that head-to-head match up looms larger than we would give it credit for per your example of losing to W&J.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.