Capital Athletic Conference Football?

[jknezek]

nnasid -- I think you are just missing the point. This thread is primarily about the CAC and what it would take to get them to sponsor football. Primarily, they need 7 NCAA qualifying members to get an AQ. Without that, there is much less incentive to sponsor the sport.

Pat's point is simply that Apprentice can't help them with that. Apprentice is not a qualifying member for AQ purposes, though a perfectly legitimate opponent in all other respects. It's not a knock on Apprentice, its just a fact that while there is nothing wrong with scheduling Apprentice or being in a conference with Apprentice, it simply won't help you get to the 7 members necessary to receive an AQ.

There is nothing here to over-react to as no one is saying anything bad about Apprentice. In this one limited respect, 7 members to get an AQ, the school just don't provide any help.

[smedindy]

Would the NCAA grant a waiver to a conference to include Apprentice in the 7-member minimum?

There's got to be a logical way to not have musical chairs so that everyone has a chance at an auto bid.

[Hampton U SID]

apologies to all 

[Pat Coleman]

I'm just clarifying.

Right. But not a member of the NCAA. Like many other non-NCAA institutions, games against Apprentice count, but they can't count toward someone's conference membership level for automatic bid purposes.

Pat - I have never claimed us to be NCAA.  ACFC was more throwing us a lifeline (so to speak).  If I am over-reacting forgive me, but we are proud members of the USCAA - one that does play a handful of NCAA D3's in FB (this year Muhlenberg, Greensboro, Gallaudet, Bridgewater) and yes various others to fill a 10-game schedule.

I was just clarifying.

[Pat Coleman]

Would the NCAA grant a waiver to a conference to include Apprentice in the 7-member minimum?

There's got to be a logical way to not have musical chairs so that everyone has a chance at an auto bid.

I think there is one logical way already -- affiliate the E8 with the CAC or vice versa.

[Ryan Tipps]

Would the NCAA grant a waiver to a conference to include Apprentice in the 7-member minimum?

There's got to be a logical way to not have musical chairs so that everyone has a chance at an auto bid.

I think there is one logical way already -- affiliate the E8 with the CAC or vice versa.

I understand the basic need for these teams, if they want the stability of a full schedule as well as an automatic bid. But isn't an E8/CAC pairing geographically unsettling? I was never thrilled with Frostburg and Salisbury joining in the first place, and I would prefer to see the schools' presidents and ADs come up with another solution rather than perpetuate the hefty travel efforts by adding Wesley and CNU to the long-range mix.

Feels too much like they would be taking a page from the Big East playbook.

[jknezek]

Would the NCAA grant a waiver to a conference to include Apprentice in the 7-member minimum?

There's got to be a logical way to not have musical chairs so that everyone has a chance at an auto bid.

I think there is one logical way already -- affiliate the E8 with the CAC or vice versa.

I understand the basic need for these teams, if they want the stability of a full schedule as well as an automatic bid. But isn't an E8/CAC pairing geographically unsettling? I was never thrilled with Frostburg and Salisbury joining in the first place, and I would prefer to see the schools' presidents and ADs come up with another solution rather than perpetuate the hefty travel efforts by adding Wesley and CNU to the long-range mix.

Feels too much like they would be taking a page from the Big East playbook.

With the schools known to be leaving the NJAC for the E8, doesn't it seem more likely that Frostburg and Salisbury will rejoin the NJAC for numbers purposes? I know this still leaves Wesley out in the cold, but I really don't see a solution for that. But it always seemed to me that Frostburg and Salisbury were a good NJAC fit, expecially after Brockport (E8), Western CT (MASCAC) and Buffalo State (E8) move on.

Looking at it in terms of miles, Frostburg is 271 miles from TCNJ (more or less the center of NJ), and Morrisville is 262 miles from TCNJ. Comparable numbers. The problem is Salisbury/Frostburg to Morrisville, 640/621 miles, but with Frostburg/Salisbury affiliated with the E8, they are making many of those trips now, joining the NJAC would limit it to one per year (assuming you split Cortland/Morrisville home/away each year). It would add one of those long trips per year to the NY based schools, but they can always try and find a home in the E8 if they are unhappy.

I have heard there is some bad blood/history between Cortland and the E8, but I'm surprised Morrisville hasn't moved that direction. Anyone have an idea here?

As for Wesley... I just don't see a solution. The NJAC or the E8 are probably the strongest top to bottom conferences in the east/mid-atlantic region right now (or possibly the MAC, really don't want to start an argument about it, just my personal thought). But I don't see anyone really wanting Wesley.

[Knightstalker]

Point of Order, Frostburg and Salisbury have never been NJAC members.

[SUADC]

Would the NCAA grant a waiver to a conference to include Apprentice in the 7-member minimum?

There's got to be a logical way to not have musical chairs so that everyone has a chance at an auto bid.

I think there is one logical way already -- affiliate the E8 with the CAC or vice versa.

I understand the basic need for these teams, if they want the stability of a full schedule as well as an automatic bid. But isn't an E8/CAC pairing geographically unsettling? I was never thrilled with Frostburg and Salisbury joining in the first place, and I would prefer to see the schools' presidents and ADs come up with another solution rather than perpetuate the hefty travel efforts by adding Wesley and CNU to the long-range mix.

Feels too much like they would be taking a page from the Big East playbook.

With the schools known to be leaving the NJAC for the E8, doesn't it seem more likely that Frostburg and Salisbury will rejoin the NJAC for numbers purposes? I know this still leaves Wesley out in the cold, but I really don't see a solution for that. But it always seemed to me that Frostburg and Salisbury were a good NJAC fit, expecially after Brockport (E8), Western CT (MASCAC) and Buffalo State (E8) move on.

Looking at it in terms of miles, Frostburg is 271 miles from TCNJ (more or less the center of NJ), and Morrisville is 262 miles from TCNJ. Comparable numbers. The problem is Salisbury/Frostburg to Morrisville, 640/621 miles, but with Frostburg/Salisbury affiliated with the E8, they are making many of those trips now, joining the NJAC would limit it to one per year (assuming you split Cortland/Morrisville home/away each year). It would add one of those long trips per year to the NY based schools, but they can always try and find a home in the E8 if they are unhappy.

I have heard there is some bad blood/history between Cortland and the E8, but I'm surprised Morrisville hasn't moved that direction. Anyone have an idea here?

As for Wesley... I just don't see a solution. The NJAC or the E8 are probably the strongest top to bottom conferences in the east/mid-atlantic region right now (or possibly the MAC, really don't want to start an argument about it, just my personal thought). But I don't see anyone really wanting Wesley.

As for teams not wanting to play Wesley, I do not see the point in not having them in the conference. They are almost a guarantee to get to the playoffs each year. If you expect to be a playoff team, why not play them. If its all about making the playoffs for a program, then I guess your program or conference should just play a round-robin at the end of the year amongst yourselves. I believe by playing them each year, you would realize what you need to do to get on their level (i.e Kean and Salisbury). I went to Salisbury and even though I never had the opporturnity of beating Wesley, I enjoyed every bit of the competition, it allowed me to measure myself against some of the top athletes in Division III. Even though the game was a conference and rivalry game, we always said if we do not play them now, we would have to eventually play them in the playoffs or even twice in season to get to a National Championship. We said if you want to be National Champions, we have beat the best and to beat the best, you have to schedule and play the best. Nevertheless, if your'e a true competitor it doesn't matter if you play Whitewater, Mount Union, or Wesley @ week 1 or week 15, you still have to play them and beat them to win a national championship.

[jknezek]

Point of Order, Frostburg and Salisbury have never been NJAC members.

Dang fat fingers. Rejoin/join... I need a better stinking editor...  +1 for the correction

[Ralph Turner]

I am enjoying the discussion.  Any shuffling that we see will be to maintain the conference AQ within travel budgets of the conference members.

I really don't care how the teams in another region handle their alignmetns. I am just glad that conferences are working to get the AQ's and to keep them.

Yes, Wesley is a tough one.

[Pat Coleman]

Another move that has been lurking out there that could help the CAC add football.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2012/06/southern-virginia-to-join-cac

The geography of Southern Virginia being added (near Lexington, Va.) may swing a school such as Averett or elsewhere in the USA South to consider switching leagues.

[Ralph Turner]

Another move that has been lurking out there that could help the CAC add football.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2012/06/southern-virginia-to-join-cac

The geography of Southern Virginia being added (near Lexington, Va.) may swing a school such as Averett or elsewhere in the USA South to consider switching leagues.

Did the Capital AC make a better offer to Southern Virginia than the USA South?

Did the USA South even talk to Southern Virginia?

[SUADC]

Another move that has been lurking out there that could help the CAC add football.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2012/06/southern-virginia-to-join-cac

The geography of Southern Virginia being added (near Lexington, Va.) may swing a school such as Averett or elsewhere in the USA South to consider switching leagues.

Yeah, I believe the addition of Southern Virginia may swing some schools to the CAC. Other than football, the conference is well represented in all other sports. The addition of CNU helps in all sports, I know Salisbury and CNU have great rivalry games in baseball, softball, volleyball, and football. I know in the past that Averett played teams in the ACFC freqently. There may be other non-NCAA teams on the horizon, I would still love for Catholic, Galudet, and Stevenson to join. Catholic and Galudet are charter members and Stevenson vs. Salisbury in Lacrosse is always an epic match-up.

[Ralph Turner]

Another move that has been lurking out there that could help the CAC add football.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2012/06/southern-virginia-to-join-cac

The geography of Southern Virginia being added (near Lexington, Va.) may swing a school such as Averett or elsewhere in the USA South to consider switching leagues.

Yeah, I believe the addition of Southern Virginia may swing some schools to the CAC. Other than football, the conference is well represented in all other sports. The addition of CNU helps in all sports, I know Salisbury and CNU have great rivalry games in baseball, softball, volleyball, and football. I know in the past that Averett played teams in the ACFC freqently. There may be other non-NCAA teams on the horizon, I would still love for Catholic, Galudet, and Stevenson to join. Catholic and Galudet are charter members and Stevenson vs. Salisbury in Lacrosse is always an epic match-up.

For newbies to this message board...

Catholic left the CAC to form the Landmark Conference, and affiliate with the ODAC for football.
Gallaudet left the CAC to join the North East Athletic Conference
Stevenson is leaving the CAC for the MAC in all sports.