Author Topic: Monmouth (NJ) U to d3 if have to pay athletes  (Read 1304 times)

Offline ADL70

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Offline jknezek

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Re: Monmouth (NJ) U to d3 if have to pay athletes
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2017, 03:49:50 pm »
http://www.app.com/story/sports/college/monmouth-university/2017/04/06/edelson-jack-ford-money-college-sports/99973860/

This is a no brainer. The vast majority of non-P5 schools need to be planning for a full FCS division. A division where they can still give scholarships, but don't have to compete with the P5 schools or rely on their handouts. No one is going to pay for a MAC Network, and ESPN isn't going to keep shelling out for rights fees on lower conferences as their subscribers plummet.

Better they plan for it now and stop building new facilities, paying more for coaches, and incurring long term debt. The P5 trickle down isn't going to last much longer. DIII schools need to start thinking about this as well. Because sooner or later, the P5 is going to demand all the revenue they generate. The money stakes are simply too high and too tempting.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Monmouth (NJ) U to d3 if have to pay athletes
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2017, 04:49:27 pm »
The P5 trickle down isn't going to last much longer. DIII schools need to start thinking about this as well. Because sooner or later, the P5 is going to demand all the revenue they generate. The money stakes are simply too high and too tempting.

Not sure what you are getting at here... but if you are indicating the P5 is going to demand they keep their money and everyone else is screwed... it isn't that easy.

First off, the entire NCAA (all divisions) would have to approve of such a thing because it would drastically change the NCAA bylaws and such. We can pretty much assume that won't get approved.

Secondly, if the P5 wants to go off on their own and create their own organization, so be it. However, I don't see that happening either because, believe it or not, the P5 needs the NCAA as much as the NCAA needs the P5.

Remember, the P5 is already getting money to keep that doesn't go to the NCAA. The NCAA sees NO money from football at the BCS level. None. Those contracts are all cut with the conferences, teams, and the Bowl Championship Series itself. The NCAA only certifies the bowl games and monitors the teams (per request of the P5). Personally, the NCAA should just drop the BCS in terms of oversight period - they get nothing from the deal. Heck, the NCAA doesn't even hand out a trophy in the end.
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Offline jknezek

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Re: Monmouth (NJ) U to d3 if have to pay athletes
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2017, 07:11:18 pm »
The P5 trickle down isn't going to last much longer. DIII schools need to start thinking about this as well. Because sooner or later, the P5 is going to demand all the revenue they generate. The money stakes are simply too high and too tempting.

Not sure what you are getting at here... but if you are indicating the P5 is going to demand they keep their money and everyone else is screwed... it isn't that easy.

First off, the entire NCAA (all divisions) would have to approve of such a thing because it would drastically change the NCAA bylaws and such. We can pretty much assume that won't get approved.

Secondly, if the P5 wants to go off on their own and create their own organization, so be it. However, I don't see that happening either because, believe it or not, the P5 needs the NCAA as much as the NCAA needs the P5.

Remember, the P5 is already getting money to keep that doesn't go to the NCAA. The NCAA sees NO money from football at the BCS level. None. Those contracts are all cut with the conferences, teams, and the Bowl Championship Series itself. The NCAA only certifies the bowl games and monitors the teams (per request of the P5). Personally, the NCAA should just drop the BCS in terms of oversight period - they get nothing from the deal. Heck, the NCAA doesn't even hand out a trophy in the end.

The bolded part is what I'm getting at. And I don't think they do, frankly. It would take a while to rig up a new set of rules and some oversight, and to negotiate all the new tv deals, but I think it will happen because there is money to do it. It also will return control to just those 60-90 schools (I think you'll end with a larger P5 for basketball), and all the administrations want more control. I also think it will happen because legally, the NCAA is is a position that is becoming untenable. It will be simpler for the P5 to break off than to renegotiate internally the structure for P5 schools that need to pay athletes.

TV contracts with just P5 schools playing each other in football, and just the P5 equivalent in basketball, are simply better contracts than those that include useless games against G5, low major, and FCS schools. Playoffs with just those schools, and no more whining or litigating from G5 schools are just too tempting. And the ability to stop fighting legislation and supporting smaller divisions is going to increasingly be important.

The NCAA at this point is turning into a drag for these schools. While they haven't wanted to take back all the things the NCAA does yet, it seems pretty much inevitable to me as dollars keep climbing.

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: Monmouth (NJ) U to d3 if have to pay athletes
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2017, 12:09:00 am »
http://www.app.com/story/sports/college/monmouth-university/2017/04/06/edelson-jack-ford-money-college-sports/99973860/
Wow!  With all of the new football-playing D3 schools, we could get to a 64-team playoff!  (Remove tongue from cheek.)

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Monmouth (NJ) U to d3 if have to pay athletes
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2017, 08:09:28 am »
http://www.app.com/story/sports/college/monmouth-university/2017/04/06/edelson-jack-ford-money-college-sports/99973860/
Wow!  With all of the new football-playing D3 schools, we could get to a 64-team playoff!  (Remove tongue from cheek.)

Just to be clear, the Big-10 commissioner said the same thing.  It makes more sense for Monmouth, obviously, but I'm still not sure if these guys actually mean it.
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Offline Ron Boerger

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Re: Monmouth (NJ) U to d3 if have to pay athletes
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2017, 08:32:02 am »
Let's don't forget the inevitable outcry from alumni (and some media) who tie their sense of self-worth to whether or not the school gives athletic scholarships by the many dozens to athletes who otherwise would never have a chance of qualifying to attend.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Monmouth (NJ) U to d3 if have to pay athletes
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2017, 12:07:16 pm »
The P5 trickle down isn't going to last much longer. DIII schools need to start thinking about this as well. Because sooner or later, the P5 is going to demand all the revenue they generate. The money stakes are simply too high and too tempting.

Not sure what you are getting at here... but if you are indicating the P5 is going to demand they keep their money and everyone else is screwed... it isn't that easy.

First off, the entire NCAA (all divisions) would have to approve of such a thing because it would drastically change the NCAA bylaws and such. We can pretty much assume that won't get approved.

Secondly, if the P5 wants to go off on their own and create their own organization, so be it. However, I don't see that happening either because, believe it or not, the P5 needs the NCAA as much as the NCAA needs the P5.

Remember, the P5 is already getting money to keep that doesn't go to the NCAA. The NCAA sees NO money from football at the BCS level. None. Those contracts are all cut with the conferences, teams, and the Bowl Championship Series itself. The NCAA only certifies the bowl games and monitors the teams (per request of the P5). Personally, the NCAA should just drop the BCS in terms of oversight period - they get nothing from the deal. Heck, the NCAA doesn't even hand out a trophy in the end.

The bolded part is what I'm getting at. And I don't think they do, frankly. It would take a while to rig up a new set of rules and some oversight, and to negotiate all the new tv deals, but I think it will happen because there is money to do it. It also will return control to just those 60-90 schools (I think you'll end with a larger P5 for basketball), and all the administrations want more control. I also think it will happen because legally, the NCAA is is a position that is becoming untenable. It will be simpler for the P5 to break off than to renegotiate internally the structure for P5 schools that need to pay athletes.

TV contracts with just P5 schools playing each other in football, and just the P5 equivalent in basketball, are simply better contracts than those that include useless games against G5, low major, and FCS schools. Playoffs with just those schools, and no more whining or litigating from G5 schools are just too tempting. And the ability to stop fighting legislation and supporting smaller divisions is going to increasingly be important.

The NCAA at this point is turning into a drag for these schools. While they haven't wanted to take back all the things the NCAA does yet, it seems pretty much inevitable to me as dollars keep climbing.

The reason I think the P5 needs the NCAA as much as the NCAA needs the P5... there is more involved on those campuses than just football (which the NCAA isn't involved with anyway), basketball, and maybe baseball/softball. There are 90 total sports in the NCAA. The P5 needs the NCAA support for the other 88 (of which they play). Furthermore, the P5 needs the other conferences and teams for something like the basketball "March Madness" to mean anything. That tournament would be boring if it was just the P5 taking part. That tournament would lose some of its allure if the Cinderellas of mid-majors and the likes of Gonzaga are gone and it is only the P5s playing.

They get that. They understand that. That is why I think the idea of the P5 breaking away I think falls well short of reality.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director, play-by-play and analyst for D3sports.com. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Offline jknezek

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Re: Monmouth (NJ) U to d3 if have to pay athletes
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2017, 12:19:40 pm »

The reason I think the P5 needs the NCAA as much as the NCAA needs the P5... there is more involved on those campuses than just football (which the NCAA isn't involved with anyway), basketball, and maybe baseball/softball. There are 90 total sports in the NCAA. The P5 needs the NCAA support for the other 88 (of which they play). Furthermore, the P5 needs the other conferences and teams for something like the basketball "March Madness" to mean anything. That tournament would be boring if it was just the P5 taking part. That tournament would lose some of its allure if the Cinderellas of mid-majors and the likes of Gonzaga are gone and it is only the P5s playing.

They get that. They understand that. That is why I think the idea of the P5 breaking away I think falls well short of reality.

So far you are correct. I just don't think it will continue. The P5 can remake how many sports they sponsor however they want. Sure it would  hurt a school like Cal, which does a ton of Olympic sports and had more Olympians in Rio than many countries, but a way will be found. I think schools like Gonzaga and the Big East and some AAC schools would be included in the breakaway. I think the P5 would go to 16 football members a piece, bringing in some of those schools with both sports, while others would come in for basketball only.

We will see as time rolls on. But if they have to pay athletes eventually, or want to because the situation is so ridiculous, it will be difficult to maintain the NCAA as an amateur association in most regards, but a professional in 2 sports. That is a legal quandry that will be hard to solve.

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Monmouth (NJ) U to d3 if have to pay athletes
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2017, 12:39:48 pm »
http://www.app.com/story/sports/college/monmouth-university/2017/04/06/edelson-jack-ford-money-college-sports/99973860/

As a point of reference, note that Monmouth (NJ) was actually a member of D3 at the division's inception. The Hawks played in the 1976 D3 men's basketball tournament, beating Lynchburg in the first round and losing to Shepherd in the second round.
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Offline ADL70

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Re: Monmouth (NJ) U to d3 if have to pay athletes
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2017, 02:04:41 pm »
http://www.app.com/story/sports/college/monmouth-university/2017/04/06/edelson-jack-ford-money-college-sports/99973860/

As a point of reference, note that Monmouth (NJ) was actually a member of D3 at the division's inception. The Hawks played in the 1976 D3 men's basketball tournament, beating Lynchburg in the first round and losing to Shepherd in the second round.

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