FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:19:08 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 17 Guests are viewing this topic.

hazzben

Quote from: Redtooth on July 17, 2020, 10:48:54 AM
Quote from: SagatagSam on July 17, 2020, 09:55:41 AM
A guy in my office played MVFC ball (2019 grad) at University of South Dakota and claims to keep in touch with the AD. He says UST joining the MVFC is "laugh out loud ridiculous" right now as it is supported by no one (not even a middling like USD), and says the league probably wouldn't consider it until UST establishes monkey-stomp dominance over the rest of the PFL for about a decade.

Take that for what its worth.

I think your coworker might be hearing a slightly veiled explanation from his friends in the USD Athletic Department....the big issue with the MVFC and UST right now is how it would impact the recruiting of 5 current schools that all spend considerable time and effort recruiting in the TC for football talent.  The rosters of NDSU, UND, USD, SDSU and UNI are covered with players from around the TC.....those schools all need to evaluate the impact of UST in their Summit League sports to determine how UST in MVFC would change their current recruiting and roster construction.

I don't doubt he claims to be on the inside with the USD AD, but I'd put a lot more credence behind that if the guy was a major donor or something. A 2019 grad has got to be pretty far down the list of people with real insight into the future options of UST and the MVFC. No offense to you (I really mean that), but that's just sounds like the lead in, "I've got a close relationship with the AD," of a guy who is just reporting the typical scuttlebutt, yet wants it to seem like it carries more weight than the usual rumors.

Step 1 for UST is showing they are legit in FB. I think they can keep up in PL from the jump.

Step 2 for UST is showing they can compete with the rest of the FCS and especially the MVFC. No idea what that timeline looks.

It's way to early for any of us to prognosticate on if UST would have a chance at making that kind of conference jump right now. They just got a waiver to jump straight to D1.

Add in what COVID might do to a lot of Mid-Major FBS and FCS athletic department budgets if the season gets canceled...we don't have any idea what the landscape of FCS football might look like 18 months, much less 5-10 years from now.

miac952

#99766
Quote from: Redtooth on July 17, 2020, 10:48:54 AM
Quote from: SagatagSam on July 17, 2020, 09:55:41 AM
Quote from: MadRedFan on July 16, 2020, 09:45:06 PM
Quote from: MiacMan on July 16, 2020, 07:08:12 PM
I'm guessing the Tommies won't care either way, whether they play this year or not. Everybody redshirts if they don't play. If they do play, the coaches find out who they can use on their future roster. Win-win. Also, Fyi, Missouri Valley is not far off, and they'll be playing the Gophs in Non-Con within 10yrs. You heard it here first.

I'm not sure why arguably the best FCS conference in the country would be so eager to add a DIII school, maybe I'm wrong.  Guess we'll find out.

A guy in my office played MVFC ball (2019 grad) at University of South Dakota and claims to keep in touch with the AD. He says UST joining the MVFC is "laugh out loud ridiculous" right now as it is supported by no one (not even a middling like USD), and says the league probably wouldn't consider it until UST establishes monkey-stomp dominance over the rest of the PFL for about a decade.

Take that for what its worth.

I think your coworker might be hearing a slightly veiled explanation from his friends in the USD Athletic Department....the big issue with the MVFC and UST right now is how it would impact the recruiting of 5 current schools that all spend considerable time and effort recruiting in the TC for football talent.  The rosters of NDSU, UND, USD, SDSU and UNI are covered with players from around the TC.....those schools all need to evaluate the impact of UST in their Summit League sports to determine how UST in MVFC would change their current recruiting and roster construction.

Nailed it! For other sports it wasn't as big of a deal and the Twin Cities is a really nice market to add for the conference. But for football it really encroaches on the hand that feeds them. The conference wants to see UST successful like an SLU, Gonzaga, Creighton, etc. It drives revenue. But, it doesn't want them biting off their recruiting footprint for the big $$ football.

miac952

Quote from: AO on July 17, 2020, 12:08:07 PM
Quote from: SagatagSam on July 17, 2020, 11:37:04 AM
Quote from: Redtooth on July 17, 2020, 10:48:54 AM
I think your coworker might be hearing a slightly veiled explanation from his friends in the USD Athletic Department....the big issue with the MVFC and UST right now is how it would impact the recruiting of 5 current schools that all spend considerable time and effort recruiting in the TC for football talent.  The rosters of NDSU, UND, USD, SDSU and UNI are covered with players from around the TC.....those schools all need to evaluate the impact of UST in their Summit League sports to determine how UST in MVFC would change their current recruiting and roster construction.

I don't doubt that is a factor, but UST is going to be competing with those schools for Twin Cities recruits as a PFL member starting right now. The issue will ultimately become "what can they do for/what do they bring to the MVFC?" If they can't build a program, there is no chance.
They're going to be recruiting with UST for walk-ons, but I really doubt many guys are going to turn down a MVFC scholarship to go to UST.  If the UST administration really wants to get to the MVFC they can do it, but it's going to be more of a money issue than a competition issue.  It's going to be enormously expensive to add scholarships and stipends for football and rent or build a bigger stadium.  I also don't know how this would impact Title IX.  If the scholarships are relatively equal before going to the MVFC you can't just add 63 scholarships to the men without adding any for the women.  Get ready to start women's rowing and field hockey, or cut a couple men's sports.

Drop Men's tennis (no on-campus facilities), add women's Lacrosse. That starts to get you close.

miac952

Quote from: USTBench on July 17, 2020, 12:35:05 PM
Quote from: SagatagSam on July 17, 2020, 12:22:25 PM
Facilities are also a huge part of that equation. USD just poured close to $30M into DakotaDome. South Dakota State totally renovated its stadium for $65M. There isn't a football stadium in the conference that seats under 10K.

I don't know if playing at Allianz is even feasible given the howling that comes from soccer players about what American Football does to the natural grass, but that's something UST is going to have to figure out in addition to demonstrating it can survive in the conference.

League attendance averages around 10,700 per game. UST could look to Stony Brook to bring a cozy FCS stadium to an urban campus. I don't think it needs to be this monolithic structure, that's a misnomer about moving to the FCS. Look at SDSU, they built an 18,000 seat stadium and only draw around 12,000 a game. That's a lot of empty seats.

CHS is a very logical "home field" for UST. 90% of the college baseball season is complete by the time the Saints even start. Would hazard a guess that it might be a host for a Summit League conference tournament or two down the road. The dimensions at UST's current ballpark are absolutely silly out in Center. Not legitimate for a D1 team. Early season they'll be heading south and at US Bank like every other college baseball team in the area.

jamtod

The Summit vs MVFC comparisons hold some weight but are also comparing apples to oranges.
Since MVFC is FCS, they are a big fish in a small pond of schools that exclude the largest D1 schools, and even the G5 participants.
Summit League is a small fish in the big pond of all of D1.

The MIAC is to D3 (to a lesser extent because the WIAC exists) what the MVFC is to D1.

It's still going to be a big step in the future, but it's not out of the question, particularly when 5 of the 9 current Summit League conference mates are also among the 11 MVFC schools.

USTBench

Quote from: jamtod on July 17, 2020, 02:07:38 PM
The Summit vs MVFC comparisons hold some weight but are also comparing apples to oranges.
Since MVFC is FCS, they are a big fish in a small pond of schools that exclude the largest D1 schools, and even the G5 participants.
Summit League is a small fish in the big pond of all of D1.

The MIAC is to D3 (to a lesser extent because the WIAC exists) what the MVFC is to D1.

It's still going to be a big step in the future, but it's not out of the question, particularly when 5 of the 9 current Summit League conference mates are also among the 11 MVFC schools.

Exactly. If it's one thing schools like, it's continuity. People act like the MVFC is this sacred cow...it's not. Youngstown is in all likelihood leaving for the Ohio Valley and Western Illinois was sucking wind financially before COVID even happened. Missouri State has already been rumored to cut football before COVID, and now they probably lost their big money game with Oklahoma. The MVFC is going to look very different in 5 to 10 years. Northern Colorado will probably join, and few schools will leave. UST is not going to be even remotely close to the same thing in 10 years. Nobody predicted where they'd get in 2008, either. Things change. Especially when you're swimming in money.
Augsburg University: 2021 MIAC Spring Football Champions

USTBench

Quote from: miac952 on July 17, 2020, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: AO on July 17, 2020, 12:08:07 PM
Quote from: SagatagSam on July 17, 2020, 11:37:04 AM
Quote from: Redtooth on July 17, 2020, 10:48:54 AM
I think your coworker might be hearing a slightly veiled explanation from his friends in the USD Athletic Department....the big issue with the MVFC and UST right now is how it would impact the recruiting of 5 current schools that all spend considerable time and effort recruiting in the TC for football talent.  The rosters of NDSU, UND, USD, SDSU and UNI are covered with players from around the TC.....those schools all need to evaluate the impact of UST in their Summit League sports to determine how UST in MVFC would change their current recruiting and roster construction.

I don't doubt that is a factor, but UST is going to be competing with those schools for Twin Cities recruits as a PFL member starting right now. The issue will ultimately become "what can they do for/what do they bring to the MVFC?" If they can't build a program, there is no chance.
They're going to be recruiting with UST for walk-ons, but I really doubt many guys are going to turn down a MVFC scholarship to go to UST.  If the UST administration really wants to get to the MVFC they can do it, but it's going to be more of a money issue than a competition issue.  It's going to be enormously expensive to add scholarships and stipends for football and rent or build a bigger stadium.  I also don't know how this would impact Title IX.  If the scholarships are relatively equal before going to the MVFC you can't just add 63 scholarships to the men without adding any for the women.  Get ready to start women's rowing and field hockey, or cut a couple men's sports.

Drop Men's tennis (no on-campus facilities), add women's Lacrosse. That starts to get you close.

What made UST so attractive to the Summit is the sports they sponsor. The Summit was struggling to field a conference for baseball, soccer and tennis, and UST offers all of those sports. I think if anyone should be worried at this point its men's hockey. A feasibility study will reveal that Minnesota needs another D1 men's hockey program like it needs an 10,001st lake, and the men's WCHA is disbanding to form a league without the Alaska schools and UAH, so currently, there is no conference that exists to extend an offer to UST. If it does, then you have a series of major logistical problems: where to build an arena to accommodate D1 men's hockey? How much will it cost? Will the community support it? Etc.

Tough decisions will need to be made. Some folks won't be happy.
Augsburg University: 2021 MIAC Spring Football Champions

SagatagSam

Quote from: USTBench on July 17, 2020, 04:53:40 PM
[...] Minnesota needs another D1 men's hockey program like it needs an 10,001st lake[...]

Have you ever been to Southwest Minnesota? They could use a couple more good ones down here. Pipestone and Rock County, MN are two of only four counties in the state that do not have a natural lake.
Sing us a song, you're the piano man
Sing us a song tonight
Well, we're all in the mood for a melody
And you've got us feelin' alright.

jamtod

Quote from: USTBench on July 17, 2020, 04:53:40 PM
Quote from: miac952 on July 17, 2020, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: AO on July 17, 2020, 12:08:07 PM
Quote from: SagatagSam on July 17, 2020, 11:37:04 AM
Quote from: Redtooth on July 17, 2020, 10:48:54 AM
I think your coworker might be hearing a slightly veiled explanation from his friends in the USD Athletic Department....the big issue with the MVFC and UST right now is how it would impact the recruiting of 5 current schools that all spend considerable time and effort recruiting in the TC for football talent.  The rosters of NDSU, UND, USD, SDSU and UNI are covered with players from around the TC.....those schools all need to evaluate the impact of UST in their Summit League sports to determine how UST in MVFC would change their current recruiting and roster construction.

I don't doubt that is a factor, but UST is going to be competing with those schools for Twin Cities recruits as a PFL member starting right now. The issue will ultimately become "what can they do for/what do they bring to the MVFC?" If they can't build a program, there is no chance.
They're going to be recruiting with UST for walk-ons, but I really doubt many guys are going to turn down a MVFC scholarship to go to UST.  If the UST administration really wants to get to the MVFC they can do it, but it's going to be more of a money issue than a competition issue.  It's going to be enormously expensive to add scholarships and stipends for football and rent or build a bigger stadium.  I also don't know how this would impact Title IX.  If the scholarships are relatively equal before going to the MVFC you can't just add 63 scholarships to the men without adding any for the women.  Get ready to start women's rowing and field hockey, or cut a couple men's sports.

Drop Men's tennis (no on-campus facilities), add women's Lacrosse. That starts to get you close.

What made UST so attractive to the Summit is the sports they sponsor. The Summit was struggling to field a conference for baseball, soccer and tennis, and UST offers all of those sports. I think if anyone should be worried at this point its men's hockey. A feasibility study will reveal that Minnesota needs another D1 men's hockey program like it needs an 10,001st lake, and the men's WCHA is disbanding to form a league without the Alaska schools and UAH, so currently, there is no conference that exists to extend an offer to UST. If it does, then you have a series of major logistical problems: where to build an arena to accommodate D1 men's hockey? How much will it cost? Will the community support it? Etc.

Tough decisions will need to be made. Some folks won't be happy.

Unpopular opinion as a non-native Minnesotan but... dump men's hockey. Support the successful women's program which can get by at STA, and put some resources towards D1 soccer.

I'd be sad if this happened, as I've enjoyed some UST hockey games, but it seems to solve a number of issues.

USTBench

Quote from: SagatagSam on July 17, 2020, 04:59:44 PM
Quote from: USTBench on July 17, 2020, 04:53:40 PM
[...] Minnesota needs another D1 men's hockey program like it needs an 10,001st lake[...]

Have you ever been to Southwest Minnesota? They could use a couple more good ones down here. Pipestone and Rock County, MN are two of only four counties in the state that do not have a natural lake.

Been to Pipestone as recently as April. While it might be IN Minnesota, it ain't Minnesota. Go to Lake Herman.
Augsburg University: 2021 MIAC Spring Football Champions

miac952

Quote from: jamtod on July 17, 2020, 05:01:15 PM
Quote from: USTBench on July 17, 2020, 04:53:40 PM
Quote from: miac952 on July 17, 2020, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: AO on July 17, 2020, 12:08:07 PM
Quote from: SagatagSam on July 17, 2020, 11:37:04 AM
Quote from: Redtooth on July 17, 2020, 10:48:54 AM
I think your coworker might be hearing a slightly veiled explanation from his friends in the USD Athletic Department....the big issue with the MVFC and UST right now is how it would impact the recruiting of 5 current schools that all spend considerable time and effort recruiting in the TC for football talent.  The rosters of NDSU, UND, USD, SDSU and UNI are covered with players from around the TC.....those schools all need to evaluate the impact of UST in their Summit League sports to determine how UST in MVFC would change their current recruiting and roster construction.

I don't doubt that is a factor, but UST is going to be competing with those schools for Twin Cities recruits as a PFL member starting right now. The issue will ultimately become "what can they do for/what do they bring to the MVFC?" If they can't build a program, there is no chance.
They're going to be recruiting with UST for walk-ons, but I really doubt many guys are going to turn down a MVFC scholarship to go to UST.  If the UST administration really wants to get to the MVFC they can do it, but it's going to be more of a money issue than a competition issue.  It's going to be enormously expensive to add scholarships and stipends for football and rent or build a bigger stadium.  I also don't know how this would impact Title IX.  If the scholarships are relatively equal before going to the MVFC you can't just add 63 scholarships to the men without adding any for the women.  Get ready to start women's rowing and field hockey, or cut a couple men's sports.

Drop Men's tennis (no on-campus facilities), add women's Lacrosse. That starts to get you close.

What made UST so attractive to the Summit is the sports they sponsor. The Summit was struggling to field a conference for baseball, soccer and tennis, and UST offers all of those sports. I think if anyone should be worried at this point its men's hockey. A feasibility study will reveal that Minnesota needs another D1 men's hockey program like it needs an 10,001st lake, and the men's WCHA is disbanding to form a league without the Alaska schools and UAH, so currently, there is no conference that exists to extend an offer to UST. If it does, then you have a series of major logistical problems: where to build an arena to accommodate D1 men's hockey? How much will it cost? Will the community support it? Etc.

Tough decisions will need to be made. Some folks won't be happy.

Unpopular opinion as a non-native Minnesotan but... dump men's hockey. Support the successful women's program which can get by at STA, and put some resources towards D1 soccer.

I'd be sad if this happened, as I've enjoyed some UST hockey games, but it seems to solve a number of issues.

It would certainly yield more "savings" than cutting something like Tennis, Swimming or Track. However it doesn't seem to jive with the public comments made by Esten and CCHA Commissioner Don Lucia. By all accounts they seem to be looking at UST as the potential 8th partner in the CCHA.

formerd3db

Among all the serious discussions we've had of recent here and on the other boards with all the craziness and serious events going on in our college football world and the country, I thought I would offer this for a brief change, if I may.

Some of you veteran SJU posters here may recall one of your own great alums, Mike Fahey, aka Johnnie Red, who used to post here for several years and who was (if I recall correctly) one of the organizers of the famous Stingfest Burger cookouts at your stadium.  You may also recall that last year, I was attempting (for over a year) to find out where Mike was residing as he had (seemingly) dropped out of sight.  In reality, he had to retire from his federal judge position due to health issues.  Several of you (including Coach Jim Gagliardi) very kindly assisted me in locating where Mike resides and I was able to visit him in person a year ago on my way out to a conference in Montana. 

With that background info, I wanted to just mention here that if any of you would like to consider sending him a card, please PM me here and I will send a PM reply back with his current mailing address.  I talk with him periodically, and I know he would appreciate hearing from any of you.  As you know, he did a lot for his alma mater and, IMO, it would be just something small to let let him know he is not forgotten by the SJU (and MIAC) crowd, but also appreciated for his steadfast loyalty and support to the school as well as here on D3.com when he was able to regularly post.  Perhaps some of you have already been keeping in touch with him periodically and, if so, thank you.  I just thought it might be a nice thing to do, especially in all this current craziness going on, which effects everyone in reality.  Again, I know he would appreciate it- he is still a fan.  Thanks and I hope I  did not overstep the bounds here.     
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

Robert Zimmerman

Just got back from up north and catching up. I understand why the non-conference football games were cancelled, but I was really looking forward to watching the SJU-Aurora rematch, especially to see how the SJU D would try to stop Aurora's quarterback the second time around.

OzJohnnie

Quote from: Robert Zimmerman on July 18, 2020, 03:10:52 PM
Just got back from up north and catching up. I understand why the non-conference football games were cancelled, but I was really looking forward to watching the SJU-Aurora rematch, especially to see how the SJU D would try to stop Aurora's quarterback the second time around.

Ditto.  Now we'll face him first up in the post-season.  Too high stakes.
[  

Texas Ole

Quote from: formerd3db on July 18, 2020, 11:21:03 AM
Among all the serious discussions we've had of recent here and on the other boards with all the craziness and serious events going on in our college football world and the country, I thought I would offer this for a brief change, if I may.

Some of you veteran SJU posters here may recall one of your own great alums, Mike Fahey, aka Johnnie Red, who used to post here for several years and who was (if I recall correctly) one of the organizers of the famous Stingfest Burger cookouts at your stadium.  You may also recall that last year, I was attempting (for over a year) to find out where Mike was residing as he had (seemingly) dropped out of sight.  In reality, he had to retire from his federal judge position due to health issues.  Several of you (including Coach Jim Gagliardi) very kindly assisted me in locating where Mike resides and I was able to visit him in person a year ago on my way out to a conference in Montana. 

With that background info, I wanted to just mention here that if any of you would like to consider sending him a card, please PM me here and I will send a PM reply back with his current mailing address.  I talk with him periodically, and I know he would appreciate hearing from any of you.  As you know, he did a lot for his alma mater and, IMO, it would be just something small to let let him know he is not forgotten by the SJU (and MIAC) crowd, but also appreciated for his steadfast loyalty and support to the school as well as here on D3.com when he was able to regularly post.  Perhaps some of you have already been keeping in touch with him periodically and, if so, thank you.  I just thought it might be a nice thing to do, especially in all this current craziness going on, which effects everyone in reality.  Again, I know he would appreciate it- he is still a fan.  Thanks and I hope I  did not overstep the bounds here.     

As I remember he was one of the great posters on the board who was always reasonable.  Always supported everyone with kind word and an invitation to his tailgate.  I regret I never got to make one of those tailgates.