FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:19:08 AM

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Caz Bombers

Quote from: MUC57 on April 12, 2019, 06:35:11 PM
Quote from: 57Johnnie on April 12, 2019, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: MUC57 on April 12, 2019, 05:19:04 PM
Quote from: OzJohnnie on April 12, 2019, 04:19:02 PM
I'm looking out the window for these guys.  I agree with the Rev.



Oz

Your picture. Isn't that : Stuhldreher, Miller, Crowley and Layden outlined against a blue-gray October sky?  ???
MUC,
You have it correct but look closely - you have them out of order.
Stuhldreher, Crowley, Miller and Layden.  :)

57

Thanks. I reversed Crowley and Mlller. I always get them mixed up!  ;D

Seeing as this is a Minnesota room, that's gotta be Ric, Arn, Ole and Tully under those hoods, right?

OldAuggie

Here is my prediction based on nothing really, other than the desire to let anyone who cares tally my votes and know where I stand.  I guess I believe Reusse when he says Augsburg is the swing vote.

Change the bylaws
St. Olaf
Mac
Carleton
GAC
Concordia
Hamline
St. Kate's
St. Mary's

No change to the bylaws
SJU
CSB
Bethel

Wild card
Augsburg - my instinct says they will vote to maintain the current bylaw thus allowing UST to stay if they desire to do so.

MIAC champions 1928, 1997

jknezek

Anyone else think this is now all a dead issue? If STU sees 7 or even 8 votes for the change, the writing is mostly on the wall. It doesn't work out well, and it's not much fun, to be the party guest most don't want around.

I see the most likely outcome here is an unannounced agreement that STU stays, but with the understanding they will move, most likely to D2, within some 3 to 5 year horizon. That allows face saving on all sides, with STU able to claim it was the plan anyway.

Though I doubt the results will be publicly disseminated, this kind of agreement would give everyone something. Plus I think it likely STU will realize it's no fun always given the cold shoulder by most of the conference, and I do think they have an eye toward moving up in division eventually anyway. A delay gives them time to make the best transition possible, but a hard time line gives the bulk of the MIAC what they want without blowing it all up.

faunch

Quote from: OldAuggie on April 12, 2019, 10:27:30 PM
Here is my prediction based on nothing really, other than the desire to let anyone who cares tally my votes and know where I stand.  I guess I believe Reusse when he says Augsburg is the swing vote.

Change the bylaws
St. Olaf
Mac
Carleton
GAC
Concordia
Hamline
St. Kate's
St. Mary's

No change to the bylaws
SJU
CSB
Bethel

Wild card
Augsburg - my instinct says they will vote to maintain the current bylaw thus allowing UST to stay if they desire to do so.

I would think the Terry Horan would push to keep U$T in the league. I know nothing about him...have never met him or really heard anything about him but he seems like a no-nonsense old school type coach that appreciates playing against the Tom$. In recent years his teams have once or twice given them all they could ask for and almost won the league a few years back. As an institution Concordia has not won any MIAC Championships in anything in recent years and they have their own issues recruiting student athletes (location being one of them).

If indeed the argument at the football coaches meeting was between Horan and Haege I wonder what the issue was really about. Was one of them arguing that U$T needs to go?

Maybe Augsburg and Concordia are the swing votes....I do agree that in less than 5 years the MIAC will likely look drastically different (if it survives).


"I'm a uniter...not a divider."

faunch

Quote from: jknezek on April 12, 2019, 11:31:38 PM
Anyone else think this is now all a dead issue? If STU sees 7 or even 8 votes for the change, the writing is mostly on the wall. It doesn't work out well, and it's not much fun, to be the party guest most don't want around.

I see the most likely outcome here is an unannounced agreement that STU stays, but with the understanding they will move, most likely to D2, within some 3 to 5 year horizon. That allows face saving on all sides, with STU able to claim it was the plan anyway.

Though I doubt the results will be publicly disseminated, this kind of agreement would give everyone something. Plus I think it likely STU will realize it's no fun always given the cold shoulder by most of the conference, and I do think they have an eye toward moving up in division eventually anyway. A delay gives them time to make the best transition possible, but a hard time line gives the bulk of the MIAC what they want without blowing it all up.
+K


"I'm a uniter...not a divider."

faunch

#91805
Quote from: Redtooth on April 12, 2019, 08:23:45 PM

Because its a Bylaw vote and not an expulsion/removal vote, the full membership will be voting....the Presidents will be trying to create the optics that no one school was targeted with the proposed change (complete BS)....in terms of the No group-add UST....while I would guess that two names listed there will be in the Yes group.....leaving the vote 8-5 in my guess, thus this effort fails...hopefully.

One last point I'd like to make....the schools, administrators, coaches, players, fans and media types that have characterized Glenn Caruso as some Darth Vader like evil coach are being completely disingenuous....most of which have never met him.  The guy can flat out coach and has done amazing job at a school that hadn't been on top of the MIAC for nearly 20 years prior to his arrival.  He has upgraded the quality of play in this conference and that has pissed off the half of MIAC that will fight like warriors to protect the mediocrity that those schools crave and aspire to.  Militant Mediocrity is how this group rolls.

I agree there will be a charade put forth to make this appear to be something it is not. That being said while I do not want to see the loss of the SJU / U$T rivalry the reality is that U$T has grown to become something that rest of the conference is not. To a man, woman and person almost everyone I know that has an association to the MIAC all say...and I paraphrase, "They're too damn big....they have so many advantages over everyone else in the league." My friends that attended Hamline, St. Olaf, Augsburg all say the same thing.
Ironically, with all these advantages, they have not collected the Walnut and Bronze in football...and this year they finished 3rd in MIAC.

I was being told a year ago by an Ole co-worker that this was happening. That same Ole played football (and sang in the choir) and despised Gagliardi. His team (early 90's) even had a wager if somebody could take his knees out on the sidelines...he also at this point has more appreciation for John than the antics of GC.

Maybe SJU being somewhat down in most sports the last 15 years has taken them out of the sights of the rest of the league. (keep in mind GAC has double the conference titles of the Johnnies since 2013). The reality is the last 2 or 3 years SJU has really stepped up their game. Name one program in the MIAC with better facilities?

That leads this diatribe to Coach Caruso. His background playing in D3, coaching at NDSU, UWEC, So Dak, and Macalester put him in position to believe that he had formula to win big at U$T. Recruiting to the MIAC was just not happening...coupled with U$T facility upgrades it was the perfect storm for success.
There is no argument that he has been successful. Glenn is an extremely driven, highly motivated person and likely believed he would have 2 or 3 national championships at this point in his career. Who could blame him based on the teams that he assembled.
His winning percentage as a head coach is 80%. At U$T it is 88%. He came to $t. Thoma$ with a plan at a time where literally nobody in the league was actively recruiting football players.
Let's face it...John Gagliardi did not visit high schools or send out assistants to visit players. SJU didn't become complacent...they were complacent. Glenn saw an untapped opportunity and grabbed it by the balls based on his experience as a recruiter.
Thankfully after about seven or eight years SJU got the message...as did the rest of the MIAC. At this point I believe that SJU has a superior football coaching staff to U$T.

If you don't all know I work at Twin Cities area high school and will tell you that 15 years ago D3 coaches rarely came around to meet with prospective players. The "Glenn" model has changed all of that. In my opinon  D3 might be the most difficult level to recruit when tuition generally runs $40-50k or higher...there's a reason the league is still lily white...players of color cannot afford it.

The reality is that the rest of the MIAC either doesn't have the facilities or resources ($$) or isn't willing to commit the resources ($$) to play that game. U$T is willing to do that, not only in football, but other sports.

It's also my opinion that the rest of the league has grown tired of the SJU / U$T football game drawing so much attention (ESPN in Collegeville, Target Field, Allianz Field and having a game drawing 15,000+ each year) SJU / U$T all love it but the rest of the MIAC thinks f_ck that!!!...it does not benefit the rest of the MIAC one iota. In fact it further separates them from the pack in football. Part of me thinks that the COL (Coalition of Losers) believes if they can break up the Johnnie / Tommie rivalry the rest of them might have a chance to succeed.

What's this mean for the future of the MIAC?
Who the hell knows?


"I'm a uniter...not a divider."

sjusection105

Quote from: USTBench on April 11, 2019, 07:55:47 PM
Quote from: faunch on April 11, 2019, 07:16:45 PM
Quote from: Reverend MIAC, PhD on April 11, 2019, 06:55:36 PM
How do we know that UST actually wants to stay in the MIAC? They've made major investments in athletic facilities, struck deals with WCCO and Allianz Field, dramatically expanded recruiting across most sports, and hired a D1 AD. They're also in the quiet phase of a giant fundraiser that likely includes money for athletics. Nothing opens those checkbooks like a perceived emergency...

Allianz Field will not be solution for D1 football or soccer. The Loons ownership paid for that facility so that they could have their own field. I doubt they want a college football team tearing up the pitch 4 or 5 Saturdays each fall. Maybe U$T could pay them enough $$$ to make it happen but I doubt it.

It's plenty big enough for FCS football, and I'm also certain that the folks that paid $250 million for it would like to have someone else kick in for the bill. That said, any "deal" with Loons ownership that I'm aware of is limited to the one game against the Johnnies.
Taking this point to be true, where does UST play football with a move to D2 and eventually D1? I don't see O'Shaughnessy Stadium being the answer without removing the track. Would UST eliminate it's fine track & field program? Not very likely. Being landlocked has it's disadvantages. I don't know enough about real estate law to know if eminent domain would fall into UST's favor,but I hardly doubt that a private university's land issues would hold any favor in the eyes of the courts. I'm sure there are contingency plans in the works for UST because the current football facilities don't appear the be the answer in a move from D3 eventually to D1.
As of now they're on DOUBLE SECRET Probation!

Walter Eagle

Quote from: sjusection105 on April 13, 2019, 07:07:33 AM
Quote from: USTBench on April 11, 2019, 07:55:47 PM
Quote from: faunch on April 11, 2019, 07:16:45 PM
Quote from: Reverend MIAC, PhD on April 11, 2019, 06:55:36 PM
How do we know that UST actually wants to stay in the MIAC? They've made major investments in athletic facilities, struck deals with WCCO and Allianz Field, dramatically expanded recruiting across most sports, and hired a D1 AD. They're also in the quiet phase of a giant fundraiser that likely includes money for athletics. Nothing opens those checkbooks like a perceived emergency...

Allianz Field will not be solution for D1 football or soccer. The Loons ownership paid for that facility so that they could have their own field. I doubt they want a college football team tearing up the pitch 4 or 5 Saturdays each fall. Maybe U$T could pay them enough $$$ to make it happen but I doubt it.

It's plenty big enough for FCS football, and I'm also certain that the folks that paid $250 million for it would like to have someone else kick in for the bill. That said, any "deal" with Loons ownership that I'm aware of is limited to the one game against the Johnnies.
Taking this point to be true, where does UST play football with a move to D2 and eventually D1? I don't see O'Shaughnessy Stadium being the answer without removing the track. Would UST eliminate it's fine track & field program? Not very likely. Being landlocked has it's disadvantages. I don't know enough about real estate law to know if eminent domain would fall into UST's favor,but I hardly doubt that a private university's land issues would hold any favor in the eyes of the courts. I'm sure there are contingency plans in the works for UST because the current football facilities don't appear the be the answer in a move from D3 eventually to D1.
Why do you assume a move to D2 or even D1 would result in attendance gains that cannot be accommodated by the present stadium?  There is no "Tommie Nation" now or in the foreseeable future.

sjusection105

Quote from: Walter Eagle on April 13, 2019, 10:00:22 AM
There is no "Tommie Nation" now or in the foreseeable future.
:o   Cold hard facts.......
As of now they're on DOUBLE SECRET Probation!

miac952

Quote from: Walter Eagle on April 13, 2019, 10:00:22 AM
Quote from: sjusection105 on April 13, 2019, 07:07:33 AM
Quote from: USTBench on April 11, 2019, 07:55:47 PM
Quote from: faunch on April 11, 2019, 07:16:45 PM
Quote from: Reverend MIAC, PhD on April 11, 2019, 06:55:36 PM
How do we know that UST actually wants to stay in the MIAC? They've made major investments in athletic facilities, struck deals with WCCO and Allianz Field, dramatically expanded recruiting across most sports, and hired a D1 AD. They're also in the quiet phase of a giant fundraiser that likely includes money for athletics. Nothing opens those checkbooks like a perceived emergency...

Allianz Field will not be solution for D1 football or soccer. The Loons ownership paid for that facility so that they could have their own field. I doubt they want a college football team tearing up the pitch 4 or 5 Saturdays each fall. Maybe U$T could pay them enough $$$ to make it happen but I doubt it.

It's plenty big enough for FCS football, and I'm also certain that the folks that paid $250 million for it would like to have someone else kick in for the bill. That said, any "deal" with Loons ownership that I'm aware of is limited to the one game against the Johnnies.
Taking this point to be true, where does UST play football with a move to D2 and eventually D1? I don't see O'Shaughnessy Stadium being the answer without removing the track. Would UST eliminate it's fine track & field program? Not very likely. Being landlocked has it's disadvantages. I don't know enough about real estate law to know if eminent domain would fall into UST's favor,but I hardly doubt that a private university's land issues would hold any favor in the eyes of the courts. I'm sure there are contingency plans in the works for UST because the current football facilities don't appear the be the answer in a move from D3 eventually to D1.
Why do you assume a move to D2 or even D1 would result in attendance gains that cannot be accommodated by the present stadium?  There is no "Tommie Nation" now or in the foreseeable future.
DII wouldn't matter at all, but a move up to DI has seating and attendance requirements that are associated with it. Im not saying the demand will follow, but look at the jumps in attendance for the Dakota schools when they moved up. The demand will grow, by how much, we shall see. What I am not sure of is if UST would be held to the requirements if football were non-scholarship D1, all San Diego, Butler, Drake, etc.

TheChucker

Lurked on this board for a long time but never posted or registered until now.

No matter the vote outcome, the MIAC membership is fractured, probably beyond repair, and I doubt the conference exists in in its current form a few years from now. The conference blowing up probably causes a domino effect of changes.

I can't help wonder what Concordia would do if the MIAC blows up. They're already way out on an island 200+ miles from other schools. Would they go back to their glory years in NAIA with several other private Christian schools up and down I-29 in the GPAC? Would they even attempt for D2 with NSIC schools that are in the same geographic region including renewing their popular neighborly rivalry with MSU Moorhead (those games were always a big draw)?

OldAuggie

Quote from: miac952 on April 13, 2019, 10:52:37 AM
Quote from: Walter Eagle on April 13, 2019, 10:00:22 AM
Quote from: sjusection105 on April 13, 2019, 07:07:33 AM
Quote from: USTBench on April 11, 2019, 07:55:47 PM
Quote from: faunch on April 11, 2019, 07:16:45 PM
Quote from: Reverend MIAC, PhD on April 11, 2019, 06:55:36 PM
How do we know that UST actually wants to stay in the MIAC? They've made major investments in athletic facilities, struck deals with WCCO and Allianz Field, dramatically expanded recruiting across most sports, and hired a D1 AD. They're also in the quiet phase of a giant fundraiser that likely includes money for athletics. Nothing opens those checkbooks like a perceived emergency...

Allianz Field will not be solution for D1 football or soccer. The Loons ownership paid for that facility so that they could have their own field. I doubt they want a college football team tearing up the pitch 4 or 5 Saturdays each fall. Maybe U$T could pay them enough $$$ to make it happen but I doubt it.

It's plenty big enough for FCS football, and I'm also certain that the folks that paid $250 million for it would like to have someone else kick in for the bill. That said, any "deal" with Loons ownership that I'm aware of is limited to the one game against the Johnnies.
Taking this point to be true, where does UST play football with a move to D2 and eventually D1? I don't see O'Shaughnessy Stadium being the answer without removing the track. Would UST eliminate it's fine track & field program? Not very likely. Being landlocked has it's disadvantages. I don't know enough about real estate law to know if eminent domain would fall into UST's favor,but I hardly doubt that a private university's land issues would hold any favor in the eyes of the courts. I'm sure there are contingency plans in the works for UST because the current football facilities don't appear the be the answer in a move from D3 eventually to D1.
Why do you assume a move to D2 or even D1 would result in attendance gains that cannot be accommodated by the present stadium?  There is no "Tommie Nation" now or in the foreseeable future.
DII wouldn't matter at all, but a move up to DI has seating and attendance requirements that are associated with it. Im not saying the demand will follow, but look at the jumps in attendance for the Dakota schools when they moved up. The demand will grow, by how much, we shall see. What I am not sure of is if UST would be held to the requirements if football were non-scholarship D1, all San Diego, Butler, Drake, etc.
A D1 hockey arena is also needed with a move to D2. This potential move affects so many programs that it is hard to see how they would decide to go D1 but maybe they have a major campaign underway silent phase and they are are almost ready to make the jump.
MIAC champions 1928, 1997

USTBench

I think people have different visions of what D1 would mean. The fact is, even if D1 is an aspiration for UST they have to play a D2 schedule for 7 years first, and the first few years of D2 they aren't playoff eligible. Secondly, if they were able to handle a D2 transition, and decide to move up to D1, that's another 5 year transition, so we're talking 12 years before UST would even be playoff eligible in D1. That's a long time to keep people's attention when there's no incentive beyond the regular season and no rivalry game to look forward to.

Then there's the issue of finding a conference home and tough to decisions as to which sports to eliminate. UST's current AD has experience bringing D1 hockey to Penn State that involved raising $80 million. But UST's arena is about 10 miles away on the campus of a high school, and there's nowhere to put it on campus in its current configuration. UST is a private University so eminent domain doesn't really apply to them, unless the local government thinks their plans will help the community at large to such an extent they will foot the bill for the requisite infrastructure needed to accommodate such a land grab. So, my guess is, if this is a legitimate aspiration for UST, bye bye Tommie Baseball.

Finally, the question needs to be asked, "What kind of D1 school does UST want to be?" There's nothing quite like UST in D2 right now, and all the similar schools in D1 (mid-major urban Catholic) don't sponsor hockey. Sports would have to be cut while maintaining Title IX compliance. I think UST would ultimately have a Sophie's choice: dump men's and women's hockey or dump baseball and softball then build an on-campus hockey arena? This would likely result in the track being moved to the soccer field, the elimination of the softball field, a hockey arena going where the baseball field is, and major upgrades to the football stadium, which is adequately sized for FCS non-scholarship football, but that hardly seems like UST's ambition since making the decision to flagship football. This sounds like a $100 million undertaking, conservatively.

Ultimately, UST is not in a very enviable position from an athletics standpoint. Every option is loaded with major pitfalls and costs, and the status quo option requires UST slam on the brakes and define who they are in 2019.
Augsburg University: 2021 MIAC Spring Football Champions

TheChucker

Quote from: USTBench on April 13, 2019, 12:54:14 PM
...Then there's the issue of finding a conference home and tough to decisions as to which sports to eliminate. UST's current AD has experience bringing D1 hockey to Penn State that involved raising $80 million. But UST's arena is about 10 miles away on the campus of a high school, and there's nowhere to put it on campus in its current configuration. UST is a private University so eminent domain doesn't really apply to them, unless the local government thinks their plans will help the community at large to such an extent they will foot the bill for the requisite infrastructure needed to accommodate such a land grab. So, my guess is, if this is a legitimate aspiration for UST, bye bye Tommie Baseball.

Finally, the question needs to be asked, "What kind of D1 school does UST want to be?" There's nothing quite like UST in D2 right now, and all the similar schools in D1 (mid-major urban Catholic) don't sponsor hockey. Sports would have to be cut while maintaining Title IX compliance. I think UST would ultimately have a Sophie's choice: dump men's and women's hockey or dump baseball and softball then build an on-campus hockey arena? This would likely result in the track being moved to the soccer field, the elimination of the softball field, a hockey arena going where the baseball field is, and major upgrades to the football stadium, which is adequately sized for FCS non-scholarship football, but that hardly seems like UST's ambition since making the decision to flagship football. This sounds like a $100 million undertaking, conservatively.

Ultimately, UST is not in a very enviable position from an athletics standpoint. Every option is loaded with major pitfalls and costs, and the status quo option requires UST slam on the brakes and define who they are in 2019.

Most of the regional NSIC D2 schools with hockey play games in off campus hockey arenas that have other year-round uses and tenants. Mankato, UM Duluth, Bemidji, to name a few. If UST's hand was forced in this, I imagine partnering with an outside arena would be the way to go (be it existing like Ridder and Excel or a new one). There doesn't seem to be any shortage in demand for ice time in hockey arenas, so a new multiple-tenant arena might be financially viable.

USTBench

Those NSIC schools are public institutions that are at the epicenter of their towns. Partnering up with Bemidji or Mankato or even Duluth to build a municipal arena is a far cry from a major city like St. Paul using taxpayer dollars to partner up with a Catholic University to build an arena. I'd be willing to bet UST would be on their own on this one. Especially considering the Loons we're pretty much on their own and downtown has the Xcel.
Augsburg University: 2021 MIAC Spring Football Champions