WBB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

Started by charge, October 30, 2004, 11:22:33 AM

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FCGrizzliesGrad

https://franklingrizzlies.com/sports/wbkb/2022-23/releases/20220819juywuc

Franklin alum ('14) Jessica Johnson will be the new HC of the Grizzlies. She was the lead assistant at Marian (IN) where they went 30-5 and a quarterfinal appearance in the NAIA last year.
Football picker extraordinaire
5 titles: CCIW, NJAC
4x: ODAC:S
3x: ASC, IIAC, MIAA:S, NACC:S, NCAC, OAC:P, Nat'l
2x: HCAC, MIAC, ODAC:P, WIAC
1x: Bracket, OAC:S

Basketball
2013 WIAC Pickem Co-champ
2015 Nat'l Pickem
2017: LEC and MIAA Pickem
2019: MIAA and WIAC Pickem

Soccer
2023: Mens Pickem

FCGrizzliesGrad

https://heartlandconf.org/news/2022/10/24/2022-23-womens-basketball-preseason-poll.aspx

2022-23 Preseason Coaches Poll

1.   Transylvania (9)    81
2.   Hanover (1)           69
3.   Bluffton                 61
4.   Rose-Hulman        56
5.   Anderson               51
6.   Franklin                 43
7.   Defiance                 27
8.   Manchester            24
9.   Mount St. Joseph   23
10.   Earlham               15
Football picker extraordinaire
5 titles: CCIW, NJAC
4x: ODAC:S
3x: ASC, IIAC, MIAA:S, NACC:S, NCAC, OAC:P, Nat'l
2x: HCAC, MIAC, ODAC:P, WIAC
1x: Bracket, OAC:S

Basketball
2013 WIAC Pickem Co-champ
2015 Nat'l Pickem
2017: LEC and MIAA Pickem
2019: MIAA and WIAC Pickem

Soccer
2023: Mens Pickem

Jester1390

#1082
Well i dont think Rose will be finishing 4th.  5 seniors 3 of them starters  and  2 juniors have stopped playing basketball.  I believe they have currently 7 players as another senior is out for the year with an injury.

I believe this will be the lineup   Pg Baum Terrific player but on an island now.    SG  Rudolph    Forward Wilson coming back for 5th year terrific person and family and will provide scoring.  Miller at other forward who will move into a starting roll another terrific young lady  and then the center the toughest player in the league in my opinion Burnham.  I think there are 2 freshman but not sure on their ability or positions there is no mention of them or signing on the website like they usually do each year.




FCGrizzliesGrad

Transylvania starting the season off ranked #2 and receiving three 1st place votes.  :)
One of their toughest games will be right at the start playing at UT-Dallas in the second of back to back games.

Hopefully they fare better than the Hanover men did a few years ago. In 2017 they went 26-4 and made the Elite 8. The next year they started the season ranked 4th but were out of the top 25 by week 5. They ultimately managed to win the conference but finished 22-7 and lost in the first round.
Football picker extraordinaire
5 titles: CCIW, NJAC
4x: ODAC:S
3x: ASC, IIAC, MIAA:S, NACC:S, NCAC, OAC:P, Nat'l
2x: HCAC, MIAC, ODAC:P, WIAC
1x: Bracket, OAC:S

Basketball
2013 WIAC Pickem Co-champ
2015 Nat'l Pickem
2017: LEC and MIAA Pickem
2019: MIAA and WIAC Pickem

Soccer
2023: Mens Pickem

Jester1390

#1084
Well official  Rose hulman roster has been devastated.  3 starters including D1 point guard Hein not returning along with 2 other seniors and 2 juniors including the first player off the bench. They go from a team averaging 6'0 across the board  to only having  one 6 footer.  They have 7 players which includes 3 freshman and the school didnt post their history so im not sure their experience level.

They are playing it seems 2 teams not that strong from early results in a Pennsylvania tournament if they struggle there its going to be a long season.  Im caught i want to root for the girls who are great people but i also dont want  a program to be rewarded where 7 players who are juniors or seniors decided the program was too toxic for them.  These players didnt leave for another school or have academic issues.

Enginerd

#1085
I suspect RHIT will win somewhere in the neighborhood of 7-10 games. Say what you will about how he runs his program, but the guy can coach. You could give him 10 amputees and he'd find a way to win 3-4 games - because I actually saw it happen with my own eyes in the 2007-2010 era before he hired the one guy who massively improved their recruiting. Any idea why he left, Jester? No idea what's going on there behind the scenes but I did note a lack of concentration at times - a notable few players seemed to be sleep-walking their way through games, especially after early January. Hein is a very high-IQ player, but it's obvious that she's not a Horizon League player athletically. She was playing at the proper level last year. She often went renegade and got it too far into the lane off the dribble and got  in serious trouble - getting it taken from her a bunch. They'll miss her IQ, and her ability to create havoc in transition - but well-coached teams, like Transy, would have put a stop to that just like they did last year. She played her best basketball before Christmas, before everyone figured her out - because she's not a good scorer off the dribble - transition and set-shots only. They'll miss the 6'1 kid from Kansas (or is it Oklahoma?) a bit for her length, but she was a much better player as a Freshman, IMO. She often looked as though she was scared to death to get hurt and avoided contact around the basket a great deal -perhaps an old injury. They'll miss your kid a bit for her length defensively. I also noticed that she was a good passer and saw the floor very well especially in half-court situations.

I just think, even with all those kids deciding to play, that they were still, at best, a 15-16 win team - with perhaps an upset at home of Bluffton, Hanover, or possibly even Transy. They just never had an elite scorer in that group - even Baum never wants to get it very close to the basket. Some of her more acrobatic baskets last year were in an effort to AVOID contact, not in reaction to it. Still, they'll beat the teams they should, for the most part.  Maybe a win or two in the non-conference slate - then splits with Earlham, MSJ, Manchester, and Defiance and POSSIBLY an upset home win over Anderson or Bluffton - so my prediction for RHIT's W-L record is as bad as 4-21 (3-15 HCAC) or as good as 8-17 (6-12 HCAC). It's possible they could get to 10 wins but unlikely. If a win over Manchester or Defiance turns out to be an upset, we're probably looking at a 4-5 win campaign.

Down year for the Fightin' Engineers. Hoping they have enough bodies to finish, but it won't be the first time they've had that issue - see 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011!

Watch out for Bluffton. They are the one team in the league that is as committed to defending as RHIT - well Manchester is as well but rarely has the talent the other two have. He's quietly done a good job recruiting over the past couple years, and has some kids that can really play - especially inside. Their games with Hanover will be bloodbaths, and I think they have a chance to clip Transy over in Ohio when they come to visit - especially if the Bluffton coach has managed to find a point guard.


My case for Hanover winning the HCAC Championship game - or a regular-season home game vs. Transy:
Hanover, if they feel like they have the right talent, Hanover won't hesitate to play that crazy pressing game that they used to such good effect in the early 2010's. At their best, Hanover is like a poor-man's Illinois Wesleyan, without post-play. If indeed they are talented enough to do that, they COULD get Transy into a scoring contest. Transy would ordinarily score a million points against a team that tried to play that way, but if they are able to turn it up a notch in the HCAC Championship game, and it winds up being one of the first times all season that Transy has been pushed or had to face adversity, they MIGHT just pull it off - much like they did in 2012 and 2015.

My case for Bluffton winning the HCAC Championship game - or a regular-season home game vs. Transy:
Another thing that goes unnoticed, I believe, is that Transy relies to an uncomfortable degree on two players (Kellione and Stacy) for 42% of their scoring. Now, each of them had off-games occasionally, but never at the same time, and neither were forced into a truly nightmarish night until Stacy was held to 9 points vs Trine in the Elite 8. The antidote to Transy is a tough, defensively-committed team that won't let them run up and down the floor and have fun - jacking up 3's and getting whatever offensive rebounds they want. You
MUST make things difficult for them. That's who RHIT was from 2015-2019, and that's who Trine always is. The only team in the HCAC right now that plays that way and has anywhere near good enough players to possibly beat Transy once out of three attempts in 2022-23 is Bluffton.

It's unlikely anyone will seriously threaten threaten Transy's regular-season title but Hanover and Bluffton will both be talented and experienced enough to give them trouble, especially on the road.

My picks are ;
1 - Transy
2 - Hanover/Bluffton
3 - Hanover/Bluffton
4 - Anderson
5 - Manchester
6 - Defiance
7 - Franklin
8 - MSJ
9 - RHIT
10-Earlham

My HCAC Final Four @ Transy:
Transy vs. Anderson
Bluffton vs. Hanover

I'm predicting a Hanover upset of Transy in the finals and the HCAC will be a two-bid conference. The Bluffton/Hanover loser will finish somewhere between 6th-10th in the final regional rankings and miss-out. The HCAC should have three regionally-ranked teams. Transy will still get to host no matter what.

Jester1390

Hey Engine. I do know why the assistant coach left but its discussions i had in private so i dont want to disclose those but he is much happier at his new job at a Georgia College.

On the Rose Team I think unfortunately you are being even optimistic even with you having low expectations. I have heard one freshman can score some the other 2 have a ways to go to help.  You have to remember they also lost Blake coming off the bench who could score and play some defense.  The big thing people dont realize is how losing people effect defensive matchups.   

Last year the number one defender was on Hein. That let Baum match up with the number 2.  My kid being 6ft always had a quick girl on her to try to take away her dribble. That left nolan and blake against the worst perimeter defender.  Barlow with her height and i have to disagree with you  they are going to miss her big time she has the best 8 ft shot in the conference had the best interior defender on her leaving Burnham with the 2nd defender now she will be the main focus.  They are going to get destroyed by the press this year. they cant even have one player get in foul trouble.

If you remember when they all came in freshman  and had no upperclassman a red flag i noticed at the time and i asked about during my daughters recruitment and was told it was because how hard the academics are at Rose and time is so valuable to a student they chose not to play.  There is some truth to how valuable time is that people outside of the school dont realize what these students have to do but this reason unfortunately I have seen first hand was an excuse.  You dont lose 7 upper classmen unless their are serious issues. 

I am extremally mad that my daughter and her teammates decided it was unhealthy for them to finish their careers. But the fact that they all chose to give up their senior moments I think speaks volumes over anything I would say.

Lastly i know your a graduate of the school and I have been asked by my friends do you regret sending your daughter to Rose. My answer is a emphatic NO.  My daughter called me after one week in her freshman year and told me i had to get her the hell out of there. There was no way she was smart enough. I told her no she knew what she was greeting into and she needed to figure it out.  Well im happy to say she will graduate with an A average she has received multiple job offers and just excepted a position paying six figures here at home and of course we are happy to get her back after 4 years.   

None of this would not have happened with out the Rose Hulman faculty who taught her to believe in herself that a failure will lead to growth and excellence who helped her on her road to success. I just wish the basketball operation had the same mantra and ability. If it could have equaled the growth  that faculty did in them as students in their basketball they would be playing for a conference championship.  Ill always will be bitter on the basketball end because it should not have become either or but both.  But if one had to be a disappointment and the other like winning a championship Ill take the classroom every time. 

I now enter my life not having any kids playing and not having any kids i coached in the system I now will just look for quality basketball to watch.

Lol Rose will have the best intermural team in the country as i think all the players who stopped playing are forming a intermural team.

Enginerd

Jester I'd love to  know what percentage of Freshmen at RHIT make that exact phone call home - wanting to bag it after just a few days!!
Obviously the service academies are going to be tougher due to the military discipline aspect - but I'd love to see a list of schools that are tougher than RHIT. Yes if anyone had any clue how difficult the academics are at RHIT, how little sleep most of the students get, how insanely fast-paced the classes are, and how difficult it is to keep one's head above water even if they DON'T play a sport, folks would wonder how in the world RHIT manages what little success they do have. It is very easy to quit playing a sport at Rose-Hulman. You have to really, really want to play your sport. If you don't, or if you're simply playing for your parents or for whatever reason, it's really easy to quit at some point.

Jester1390

Engine. I would agree with what you said but i cant stress enough these girls left not for those reasons.

Enginerd

#1089
Quote from: Jester1390 on November 13, 2022, 12:55:04 AM
Engine. I would agree with what you said but i cant stress enough these girls left not for those reasons.

Oh I'm not in any way suggesting they did/didn't leave for any reason other than the one's you've previously relayed. I'm simply well-aware, as much as anyone, that RHIT is definitely not the place to attempt to compete at a sport unless you're 100% committed and LOVE your sport. With the academics being so demanding, and therefore the free time allotted to each student being so comparatively small, that time is enormously precious to 18-22 year-olds - So if for WHATEVER reason they aren't enjoying themselves, be they issues with the coach, legitimate academic issues, or they just want more time to play video games, reasons to continue playing diminish rather quickly.

If you look at the modest success RHIT HAS had over the last decade - multiple football, baseball, soccer, golf, and basketball NCAA appearances - while being limited to recruiting kids with high test scores and the the ability to afford paying $40,000 or even $50,000+ AFTER financial aid (why IS their financial aid so bad? It was lousy 25 years ago and has only gotten worse!) - and THEN add the insanity of the academic load and the fact that many kids are constantly thinking about quitting their sport for the above reasons, it's astounding they are competitive at all in anything, to say nothing of actually winning the HCAC regularly. The women's basketball coach might have issues with that program, but there must be folks down there doing something right. Hopefully the new AD will keep things rolling. What's your initial take on the new AD, Jester?

NEHoopsFan

Just thought I would chime in quick.  I know nothing about RHIT, but a few years ago my daughter played for MIT where the rigours of academic are extremely high.  She played for the team that brought MIT their first and second ever conference championships and NCAA appearances.
Each year it would be expected that one or two underclassmen would quit basketball, but we were fortunate that the coaching staff and the school understood the daily pressure the girls were under. One thing MIT does that I loved, was there are never classes between 5-7 PM, and that is when ALL athletic practices are. Noo 5:30 AM practices, no missing class for practice. It was great for the players and coaches.
That being said, no matter how much you love the sport, if the environment is toxic your better off getting out and enjoying other aspects of your life, and thats not easy to do for these athletes who spent 90% of their life playing. So hats off to your daughter making the best decision for her.
As I said, I know nothing about your situation or RHIT, but just adding my $0.02

Enginerd

Quote from: NEHoopsFan on November 16, 2022, 04:47:41 PM
Just thought I would chime in quick.  I know nothing about RHIT, but a few years ago my daughter played for MIT where the rigours of academic are extremely high.  She played for the team that brought MIT their first and second ever conference championships and NCAA appearances.
Each year it would be expected that one or two underclassmen would quit basketball, but we were fortunate that the coaching staff and the school understood the daily pressure the girls were under. One thing MIT does that I loved, was there are never classes between 5-7 PM, and that is when ALL athletic practices are. Noo 5:30 AM practices, no missing class for practice. It was great for the players and coaches.
That being said, no matter how much you love the sport, if the environment is toxic your better off getting out and enjoying other aspects of your life, and thats not easy to do for these athletes who spent 90% of their life playing. So hats off to your daughter making the best decision for her.
As I said, I know nothing about your situation or RHIT, but just adding my $0.02

I watched those 2014-2019 MIT teams often - whenever the games were streamed. Those were outstanding MIT squads with a couple of low-mid D-I level players in Holinski and Drammis - and a bunch of other kids that could play. Did Holinski play four full seasons? With RHIT being an undergraduate-focused institution without doctoral students to occupy the faculty's attention, I would imagine in some aspects it is even MORE difficult to play a sport at MIT than at RHIT, to say nothing of making waves nationally. I thought it was a HUGE deal several years ago when MIT's men's BB team spent most of the year ranked #1, and didn't their FB team play in the NCAA playoffs recently?
I'm not suggesting anyone continue in a toxic environment - just saying that with the kind of rigor and the discipline necessary just to keep one's head above water academically, any reason at all will convince many kids just to hang it up. There is a very, very small percentage of kids of this present college-age generation that would accept that kind of challenge - for 1,2,3, or 4 years. I have a lot of respect for kids that accept the challenge to play at schools like Stevens, RPI, Wooster, MIT, RHIT, and especially the service academies. It's not easy to have the self-discipline and work ethic to balance one's academics and play a sport at any college, at any level - but it's another level entirely at some schools.

NEHoopsFan

Those definitely were great teams to watch.  Yes, Holinski played all 4 years.  MIT won the newmac her Junior and Senior year (my daughters Freshman and Sophomore year) and they actually went back to the finals her junior year but fell short to a strong Smith team. Holinski was an excellent player, but your right, she was surrounded by very good players.
Like you mentioned, to play at any of this extremely rigorous academic schools it is challenging.  Thats why I was such a big fan of how MIT did it, having ALL athletics practice at the same time. I always wondered if other schools did similar things to support student athletes.

Jester1390

Well it will be a interesting weekend for Rose when they might face IWU in the 2nd game . The DePauw and IWU should be a slobber knocker of a game.  Rose is 2-0 after a Pennsylvania tournament playing a teams that are now a combined 1-10.  This will be a huge test to see how far they might have fallen with so many upperclassmen deciding not to return.  If they play IWU in the 2nd game it will really be the litmus test as they beat IWU last year and would have had the same exact team returning if not for the upperclassmen leaving.  So we shall see how the rematch go's

It was a very emotional weekend watching them play last weekend and not seeing  my kid on the court but i did get to spend the weekend with her and seeing how happy she was and content she was with her decision and knowing it was the correct one made it a little easier.  I'm stuck between wanting players to do well and of course their experience is better by winning but then that contradicts my feelings for the program and what it has done to make so many players not want to return.

Enginerd

#1094
Quote from: Jester1390 on November 23, 2022, 03:32:57 PM
Well it will be a interesting weekend for Rose when they might face IWU in the 2nd game . The DePauw and IWU should be a slobber knocker of a game.  Rose is 2-0 after a Pennsylvania tournament playing a teams that are now a combined 1-10.  This will be a huge test to see how far they might have fallen with so many upperclassmen deciding not to return.  If they play IWU in the 2nd game it will really be the litmus test as they beat IWU last year and would have had the same exact team returning if not for the upperclassmen leaving.  So we shall see how the rematch go's

It was a very emotional weekend watching them play last weekend and not seeing  my kid on the court but i did get to spend the weekend with her and seeing how happy she was and content she was with her decision and knowing it was the correct one made it a little easier.  I'm stuck between wanting players to do well and of course their experience is better by winning but then that contradicts my feelings for the program and what it has done to make so many players not want to return.

Jester - not doubting your daughter's experience at all, but if things were so bad in that program, why didn't they all quit? Why is anyone left at all to play this season? Were some kids singled out more than others?

As for this weekend, DePauw didn't quite look like themselves against Wisconsin Lutheran last week but, then again, Wisc. Lutheran has always given DePauw problems...always. I cannot imagine WashU won't obliterate RHIT - they'll likely put the game away within the first two minutes of the first quarter. IWU is doing their usual early-season thing, but they'll be formidable by late January. I have to believe any IWU-RHIT game would be over around the time the backcourt begins to tire - likely mid-2nd quarter - Earlier if the IWU coach wants to run-and-jump from the opening tip-off.