Author Topic: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference  (Read 10157213 times)

Offline jknezek

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62400 on: April 07, 2022, 09:32:28 am »
I think there is an advantage to being low cost. But I think there is a much bigger advantage when the school's administration backs athletics in a big way, the right coach and staff is in place, and there is a history of winning. Four or five of the WIAC schools, to one degree or another, have all of these factors.

I don't think the same can be said for other state schools.

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62401 on: April 07, 2022, 11:36:17 am »
... I think there is a much bigger advantage when the school's administration backs athletics in a big way, the right coach and staff is in place, and there is a history of winning. Four or five of the WIAC schools, to one degree or another, have all of these factors.

I don't think the same can be said for other state schools.

Exactly. This is why those particular WIAC schools succeed heavily in Division III and other state schools with the same tuition advantages do not.

It is not just the tuition.
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Offline D3fanboy

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62402 on: April 07, 2022, 05:16:34 pm »
... I think there is a much bigger advantage when the school's administration backs athletics in a big way, the right coach and staff is in place, and there is a history of winning. Four or five of the WIAC schools, to one degree or another, have all of these factors.

I don't think the same can be said for other state schools.

Exactly. This is why those particular WIAC schools succeed heavily in Division III and other state schools with the same tuition advantages do not.

It is not just the tuition.


very true.  of all the cheap tuitions, the WIAC schools are the ones that actually try to win.  I think we're doing chicken vs egg here.  Is the WIAC full of competitive teams because of the cheap tuition, public school admittance and absolute lack of in-state recruiting completion or has the competitive nature of the conference led to more and more quality teams?

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62403 on: April 08, 2022, 10:25:12 am »
Once upon a time Rowan was on that list as well. I think Cortland, Brockport, Salisbury and to some extent Christopher Newport also all have a commitment to athletics and enough success in football to be currently considered ones that actually try to win.

Is the WIAC full of competitive teams because of the ... or has the competitive nature of the conference led to more and more quality teams?

Both.
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Offline jknezek

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62404 on: April 08, 2022, 02:14:11 pm »
Once upon a time Rowan was on that list as well. I think Cortland, Brockport, Salisbury and to some extent Christopher Newport also all have a commitment to athletics and enough success in football to be currently considered ones that actually try to win.

Is the WIAC full of competitive teams because of the ... or has the competitive nature of the conference led to more and more quality teams?

Both.

When I originally wrote my post about commitment I actually listed Salisbury, CNU and Keeler's time at Rowan as schools that at one time or another had all the components but couldn't quite get over the hump. Then I cut it all out for short and sweet. But it's the offseason, and I'm bored, so here is the long version.

For me, Salisbury is held back by the system, which is a reflection of coaching philosophy. Running the option is a double edged sword. They get a lot out of it, but there is that brick wall where you just come up against teams with enough athletic ability that you are sunk. And yes, I understand the irony of writing that as a W&L alum who loves watching us run the option.

CNU I think was an admin issue. They had it rolling for a while, but top level support waned and a coaching change just didn't pan out, maybe because of the drop in support. I think admin support is on the way back up these days from what I can tell, so we will see if they can get to the heights, but you really need that support to be consistent. See UMHB 20+ years of consistent support and obviously, UMU with 30 or more years, as the best examples of schools going in on athletics to help build a brand.

And then we come to Keeler. Great coach, though I know the methods stirred some controversy it's hard to argue with the results, great support, but I think Rowan at the top levels didn't exactly like what it took in the end. So when the coaching change came, I think there was a pullback and it doesn't seem to have ever reappeared to the same extent.

The other one I thought about was Frostberg St. Obviously no longer D3, but it's hard to argue those last few years that school wasn't all in. Had they stayed D3 with that commitment, I think they would have been a highest level school. And it might have spurred Salisbury and CNU to find a way up the steps they need if they were faced with an all-in Fberg every year.

Offline FANOFD3

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62405 on: April 08, 2022, 02:48:44 pm »
Once upon a time Rowan was on that list as well. I think Cortland, Brockport, Salisbury and to some extent Christopher Newport also all have a commitment to athletics and enough success in football to be currently considered ones that actually try to win.

Is the WIAC full of competitive teams because of the ... or has the competitive nature of the conference led to more and more quality teams?

Both.

When I originally wrote my post about commitment I actually listed Salisbury, CNU and Keeler's time at Rowan as schools that at one time or another had all the components but couldn't quite get over the hump. Then I cut it all out for short and sweet. But it's the offseason, and I'm bored, so here is the long version.

For me, Salisbury is held back by the system, which is a reflection of coaching philosophy. Running the option is a double edged sword. They get a lot out of it, but there is that brick wall where you just come up against teams with enough athletic ability that you are sunk. And yes, I understand the irony of writing that as a W&L alum who loves watching us run the option.

CNU I think was an admin issue. They had it rolling for a while, but top level support waned and a coaching change just didn't pan out, maybe because of the drop in support. I think admin support is on the way back up these days from what I can tell, so we will see if they can get to the heights, but you really need that support to be consistent. See UMHB 20+ years of consistent support and obviously, UMU with 30 or more years, as the best examples of schools going in on athletics to help build a brand.

And then we come to Keeler. Great coach, though I know the methods stirred some controversy it's hard to argue with the results, great support, but I think Rowan at the top levels didn't exactly like what it took in the end. So when the coaching change came, I think there was a pullback and it doesn't seem to have ever reappeared to the same extent.

The other one I thought about was Frostberg St. Obviously no longer D3, but it's hard to argue those last few years that school wasn't all in. Had they stayed D3 with that commitment, I think they would have been a highest level school. And it might have spurred Salisbury and CNU to find a way up the steps they need if they were faced with an all-in Fberg every year.

Jk, you nailed it with Salisbury. Many Alums and the administration supports Salisbury to the fullest. As you aforementioned, Salisbury system is a double-edge sword and many alums and administration don't mind the consistency with what the product is producing. However, every year there is a loud contingent of both fans & alums (no so much administration) that ask if the team should continue to run the flexbone spread (triple-option) or add some sort of passing attack, similar to that UW-Oshkosh and UMHB teams that matured to a more balance attack over the past two decades. Until then, I'd put Salisbury Football in a category of Tier 2 with it's better teams reaching a ceiling of Top 6 to 8, which will probably not change until Coach Wood retirement as he his firmly committed to his offensive coordinator, who may be in line to take over when that does happen. So as a fan of Salisbury, I'll remain happy until we face those teams with similar/better talent or coaching that knows how to stop the option.

Regarding CNU, from my perspective, the support is there from the administration, CNU85 will be a better person to discuss, but I think Coaching and talent level drop for a while, not sure if playing in the NJAC played a part as over 50% of their games will be played North of Virginia and 5 hours away from Newport News. I do think the current staff is going to reinvigorate the program, it'll start with getting those recruits that are falling into both Salisbury and ODAC hands. 

Frostburg and I hate to say it, definitely had the coaching and support to make a jump and was probably 3 to 4 years away before going to DIV II.

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62406 on: April 08, 2022, 03:06:20 pm »
One of the issues in CNU's fall-off was Old Dominion adding football. The FCS version of ODU definitely took a bunch of kids right out of CNU's backyard that otherwise would have gone to the Captains.
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Offline D3fanboy

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62407 on: April 09, 2022, 11:36:12 am »
One of the issues in CNU's fall-off was Old Dominion adding football. The FCS version of ODU definitely took a bunch of kids right out of CNU's backyard that otherwise would have gone to the Captains.

that must suck for CNU to have in-state, sub-FBS competition for recruits. 

Offline WLCALUM83

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62408 on: April 09, 2022, 06:30:19 pm »
One of the issues in CNU's fall-off was Old Dominion adding football. The FCS version of ODU definitely took a bunch of kids right out of CNU's backyard that otherwise would have gone to the Captains.

that must suck for CNU to have in-state, sub-FBS competition for recruits. 

Seeing these posts lead me to wonder how much trouble NE Wesleyan has getting athletes, what with the NCAA D1 Nebraska Cornhuskers in the same locality. (Lincoln). (Somewhat relatable rabbit trail.)
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Offline Kira & Jaxon's Dad

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62409 on: April 11, 2022, 07:34:05 am »
One of the issues in CNU's fall-off was Old Dominion adding football. The FCS version of ODU definitely took a bunch of kids right out of CNU's backyard that otherwise would have gone to the Captains.

that must suck for CNU to have in-state, sub-FBS competition for recruits. 

Seeing these posts lead me to wonder how much trouble NE Wesleyan has getting athletes, what with the NCAA D1 Nebraska Cornhuskers in the same locality. (Lincoln). (Somewhat relatable rabbit trail.)

I would think these two institutions recruit different level of athletes.

tOSU is in Columbus, and there are various Sub D1 Football playing schools in the Columbus, OH area.
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Offline WRMUalum13

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62410 on: April 12, 2022, 02:43:04 pm »
One of the issues in CNU's fall-off was Old Dominion adding football. The FCS version of ODU definitely took a bunch of kids right out of CNU's backyard that otherwise would have gone to the Captains.

that must suck for CNU to have in-state, sub-FBS competition for recruits. 

Seeing these posts lead me to wonder how much trouble NE Wesleyan has getting athletes, what with the NCAA D1 Nebraska Cornhuskers in the same locality. (Lincoln). (Somewhat relatable rabbit trail.)

I would think these two institutions recruit different level of athletes.

tOSU is in Columbus, and there are various Sub D1 Football playing schools in the Columbus, OH area.

Yeah, I think the more common situation is a lower D1 that attracts walk-ons who could have been high level D3 talent, i.e. MAC and FCS schools. I know Mount has had multiple MAC  and FCS transfers in the past.  But any big-time FBS program isn't going to influence D3 recruiting in the least IMO

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62411 on: April 14, 2022, 02:58:38 pm »
With UWW and UMHB playing each other, at least one of the '21 semifinalists will have 1 loss prior to the playoffs.  Very sad

Offline Kira & Jaxon's Dad

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62412 on: April 19, 2022, 07:17:28 pm »
I saw on Twitter that Shawn Collins is now a GA at Wisconsin.

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Offline theaprof

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62413 on: April 21, 2022, 10:59:17 am »
Lenny Reich is leaving Mount to be athletic director for Alliance schools.  Big loss for Mount Union and all of DIII.
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Offline emma17

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #62414 on: April 21, 2022, 01:13:59 pm »
I’m late to the party on the WIAC advantage discussion.
Three comments:
1. I agree the WIAC schools have two, maybe three advantages. One is lack of in-state scholarship school competition. Another I believe is more lenient admission standards. The third is possibly lower tuition (sticker price), although private schools certainly sweeten the pot.
2. Unless it’s changed since my Illinois son graduated UWW in 2021, there is 0 reciprocity between IL and UWW. We FIB’s pay a nice surcharge for the privilege of attending UWW. I believe UWP does offer IL residents reduced tuition.
3. The Perk (considered one of D3’s nicest football stadiums) existed when I attended in 1983. It was built because people like Coach Forrest Perkins and Coach Bob Berezowitz had a vision and pursued it relentlessly. As an IL recruit back then, the magnificent stadium was absolutely a major factor in my decision to enroll. As you know, UWW’s first national championship wasn’t until 2007- despite all those years of the advantages.

I’d say UWL drove UWW and UWW drove UWO to believe in national championship behavior.