Coaching Carousel

Started by Ommadawn, April 07, 2018, 04:50:19 PM

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d4_Pace

Quote from: jknezek on April 29, 2022, 11:31:49 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on April 29, 2022, 11:13:13 AM
Quote from: d4_Pace on April 28, 2022, 08:13:20 PM
Well this is more excitement than I expected logging into the boards tonight.  Mr. Marching I do think it is fair to acknowledge that some people will certainly be turned off by the idea of playing for a female coach which does limit your available talent pool. I don't think that is necessarily prohibitive to being successful at a school like Uchicago or NYU that tends to attract more liberal students who may be more open to the idea compared to other schools.

That being said it seems a little outlandish to flat out dismiss all women from all leadership positions. Numerous women are serving with distinction in the upper echelons of the military today, a position that requires a level of leadership of men far beyond that required of a dIII soccer coach.

D4, we couldn't get you to chime in on subbing rules, but you jump in and actually appear to give this guy oxygen by saying he kinda, sorta has a point?  How many women do you think this guy believes should be in your med school class?

If a kid is gonna make a decision and opt out of a choice because of a female coach, then fine, do whatever you want.  And transfer a couple of years later if the chosen school ends up hiring a woman.  But you're colluding with a guy trolling who vaguely exploited some D3 coaching news for the sole purpose of ranting very recklessly but also intentionally about his neanderthal view of women in general.  And then he ridiculously posed as inviting debate after vomiting a totally outrageous caricature of a caricature of the most obscene take on women (and men) imaginable.  Even in his absurd fictional account, do the 10 women he's referring to at the compound in "Northern Idaho" know that in addition to having the right to serve the country they're also entitled to vote?  And, btw, the guy didn't qualify his view at all.  Not only should women never have any role with any leadership involving men, they shouldn't have any leadership role anywhere with anyone "period."

Finally, D4, I think I understand what you were trying to suggest about NYU and Chicago.  But really?  You want that as a take-home message?  "Attracts more liberal students"?  Compared to............Tufts?  Can we get a full list of colleges that frown upon women being in leadership roles?  Or maybe women shouldn't go to college?  Or if they do go, should they do so solely for the purpose of providing hubby with some interesting conversation at dinner after she's done washing and folding all of his laundry?  Btw, I'm less sure about NYU, but Chicago is quite diverse and is known for producing a large number of conservative intellectuals.

Disappointing.

I think you read too much into D4's post. He is clearly not giving any support to our troll. But it's ridiculous to assume that people don't feel similar to our troll. I live in AL, I see it all the time. My wife and I are both martial arts instructors. We have parents that won't bring their elementary school through h.s. age boys to classes she teaches, and she is a much better instructor and martial artist than me. She's a freaking special education teacher as her day job, so if anyone knows how to instruct, it's her. But they won't bring their boys to her classes because they feel a woman should not be instructing boys in sports, especially a sport like martial arts. My wife, by the way, would kick their butts, men or women, in seconds flat.

But people all have a myriad of opinions. Do I think they are completely freaking nuts and living 60 years in the past and am super glad that my daughter has choices besides being a homemaker and on-call June Cleaver to her future spouse? Heck yeah. But that doesn't mean that lots of people don't feel different. Especially in certain areas of the country.

There is not a doubt in my mind that a significant, maybe not a large number but a significant, number of male players will not want to play for a female coach. And their parents will be leading that charge because guess where they learned to think that way? I think D4 has a fair point about which schools will be able to help usher in this change, and I think we could make a very fair point about which schools cannot or will not.


Tufts and the entire NESCAC would obviously follow in line with UChicago and NYU in the more liberal end of the d3 spectrum.  Obviously all the points he made were clownish but I knew they would also garner responses on a topic that seemed to have been overlooked which is why I chose to engage.  Women are clearly capable of serving in leadership roles in every aspect of society, yet men's sports are the one realm where that has not come to fruition. As of now I can't name a single female head coach in male professional sports. I also would be surprised if there are even any head coaches in D1 sports although I don't have that information available.  Going even farther, I never played for a woman coach during my club soccer experience and I don't believe there were any coaching the boys at my club. I never played against another academy team coached by a woman.  So this is certainly an issue. I would like to think its not because everyone shares the opinions expressed above, but I think certainly think many people probably may feel similarly if not to the same handsmaid tale extent.

In regards to the subbing rules, i logged in and that debate was 8 pages deep and I couldn't keep up with the various arguments the two sides were making. And for maybe the first time in my life i chose to to just keep me thoughts to myself, I think parents would be proud of the personal growth.

Ron Boerger

Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 30, 2022, 01:47:00 AM
Quote from: Another Mom on April 29, 2022, 12:44:22 PM
Quote from: jknezek on April 29, 2022, 11:50:36 AM
Quote from: SaintsgoMarching on December 22, 2021, 06:14:44 PM
Andrew Bednarsky was my assistant coach when I was the head coach at Heidelberg for a short time.  I can tell you that he is a class act all the way around and will make a fantastic head coach at whichever university is lucky enough to hire him.  Bednarsky for President!!!!

One of our troll's previous posts. I wonder how Heidelberg would feel about a coach with his opinions these days? Certainly all those female students on campus wouldn't be happy knowing a staff member was walking around thinking they were wasting time better spent barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen!

And less than 2 minutes of internet digging gives me our troll's most likely name, given there was a Heidelberg coach for a year who went sub .500 and who played at St. Lawrence during their late 90s era glory years. Though to be fair, only one coach in Heidelberg's history has been over .500 overall.

Who knows, maybe the account was hijacked?

Well, perhaps the account was hacked.  That same one year Heidelberg coach, former St. Lawrence player is also a coach in California, apparently where these posts originated from. I would imagine UC Riverside would be more interested than Heidelberg in these opinions, though.

The coach in question is no longer on the staff at Cal-Riverside.

He is listed on their 2016 coaching roster but not the 2017 or any since.  Odd, because there is an announcement in the 2017 season of him promoted to associate head coach.  There is very little trace of him that I can find after 2017 - Google, Twitter, etc.   There is a mention of a person by that name complaining about mask mandate at a Sandpoint ID library board of trustees meeting in September 2021 which would be on point with other opinions expressed here. 

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 30, 2022, 11:54:22 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 30, 2022, 01:47:00 AM
Quote from: Another Mom on April 29, 2022, 12:44:22 PM
Quote from: jknezek on April 29, 2022, 11:50:36 AM
Quote from: SaintsgoMarching on December 22, 2021, 06:14:44 PM
Andrew Bednarsky was my assistant coach when I was the head coach at Heidelberg for a short time.  I can tell you that he is a class act all the way around and will make a fantastic head coach at whichever university is lucky enough to hire him.  Bednarsky for President!!!!

One of our troll's previous posts. I wonder how Heidelberg would feel about a coach with his opinions these days? Certainly all those female students on campus wouldn't be happy knowing a staff member was walking around thinking they were wasting time better spent barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen!

And less than 2 minutes of internet digging gives me our troll's most likely name, given there was a Heidelberg coach for a year who went sub .500 and who played at St. Lawrence during their late 90s era glory years. Though to be fair, only one coach in Heidelberg's history has been over .500 overall.

Who knows, maybe the account was hijacked?

Well, perhaps the account was hacked.  That same one year Heidelberg coach, former St. Lawrence player is also a coach in California, apparently where these posts originated from. I would imagine UC Riverside would be more interested than Heidelberg in these opinions, though.

The coach in question is no longer on the staff at Cal-Riverside.

He is listed on their 2016 coaching roster but not the 2017 or any since.  Odd, because there is an announcement in the 2017 season of him promoted to associate head coach.  There is very little trace of him that I can find after 2017 - Google, Twitter, etc.   There is a mention of a person by that name complaining about mask mandate at a Sandpoint ID library board of trustees meeting in September 2021 which would be on point with other opinions expressed here.

He has apparently chosen to take the advice of the B-52s by living in his own private Idaho.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

VAFury

Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 30, 2022, 04:44:33 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on April 30, 2022, 11:54:22 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 30, 2022, 01:47:00 AM
Quote from: Another Mom on April 29, 2022, 12:44:22 PM
Quote from: jknezek on April 29, 2022, 11:50:36 AM
Quote from: SaintsgoMarching on December 22, 2021, 06:14:44 PM
Andrew Bednarsky was my assistant coach when I was the head coach at Heidelberg for a short time.  I can tell you that he is a class act all the way around and will make a fantastic head coach at whichever university is lucky enough to hire him.  Bednarsky for President!!!!

One of our troll's previous posts. I wonder how Heidelberg would feel about a coach with his opinions these days? Certainly all those female students on campus wouldn't be happy knowing a staff member was walking around thinking they were wasting time better spent barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen!

And less than 2 minutes of internet digging gives me our troll's most likely name, given there was a Heidelberg coach for a year who went sub .500 and who played at St. Lawrence during their late 90s era glory years. Though to be fair, only one coach in Heidelberg's history has been over .500 overall.

Who knows, maybe the account was hijacked?

Well, perhaps the account was hacked.  That same one year Heidelberg coach, former St. Lawrence player is also a coach in California, apparently where these posts originated from. I would imagine UC Riverside would be more interested than Heidelberg in these opinions, though.

The coach in question is no longer on the staff at Cal-Riverside.

He is listed on their 2016 coaching roster but not the 2017 or any since.  Odd, because there is an announcement in the 2017 season of him promoted to associate head coach.  There is very little trace of him that I can find after 2017 - Google, Twitter, etc.   There is a mention of a person by that name complaining about mask mandate at a Sandpoint ID library board of trustees meeting in September 2021 which would be on point with other opinions expressed here.

He has apparently chosen to take the advice of the B-52s by living in his own private Idaho.

Better than the Love Shack, I guess..

WUPHF

Hey, I am in full support of the Chicago hire.  Masks on the other hand...especially the cloth masks that were the standard...let's just say the Swedes had it right.

Gregory Sager

"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

WUPHF

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 01, 2022, 10:34:42 AM
Ingen kommentar.

No comment is the safest way to go.  Just be ready to speak up the next time we are asked to confront a seriously deadly disease and ignore so much of what we knew going in.

Gregory Sager

Svenskarna vet bäst. Och de kommer hela tiden att påminna dig om det. ;)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

WUPHF

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 01, 2022, 02:55:53 PM
Svenskarna vet bäst. Och de kommer hela tiden att påminna dig om det. ;)

I am going to assume that this is a Swedish lament about the fact that the 2021-2022 season is over on most college campuses with the exceptions for the schools fortunate enough to get a postseason baseball or softball game or track and field (or possibly another sport that my school does not field).

Gregory Sager

Nah, it's just me making fun of Swedes. (I actually quoted a Swedish friend who has a self-deprecating sense of humor.)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Ron Boerger

Quote from: WUPHF on May 02, 2022, 09:15:00 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 01, 2022, 02:55:53 PM
Svenskarna vet bäst. Och de kommer hela tiden att påminna dig om det. ;)

I am going to assume that this is a Swedish lament about the fact that the 2021-2022 season is over on most college campuses with the exceptions for the schools fortunate enough to get a postseason baseball or softball game or track and field (or possibly another sport that my school does not field).

Google Translate often does a decent job for those who like me are unfortunately unilingual: 

The Swedes know best. And they will always remind you of that.



Gotberg

Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 02, 2022, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: WUPHF on May 02, 2022, 09:15:00 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 01, 2022, 02:55:53 PM
Svenskarna vet bäst. Och de kommer hela tiden att påminna dig om det. ;)

I am going to assume that this is a Swedish lament about the fact that the 2021-2022 season is over on most college campuses with the exceptions for the schools fortunate enough to get a postseason baseball or softball game or track and field (or possibly another sport that my school does not field).

Google Translate often does a decent job for those who like me are unfortunately unilingual: 

The Swedes know best. And they will always remind you of that.

Reminds me of the Notre Dame joke - How do you know someone went to Notre Dame?  They always tell you....
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. - George Best

NoSuchThingAsOffsides

Quote from: Saint of Old on April 30, 2022, 07:13:14 AM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on April 30, 2022, 05:38:45 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on April 29, 2022, 01:04:21 PM
Maybe there's a silver lining here....like a Simplecoach to Coach interview with the HCs of NYU and/or Chicago.  Maybe both of them together.

Just wait ... trying to line something up.  Stay tuned.

Just my two cents on the crazy on here.  My very long held belief is that ... I don't care.  I don't care your race, gender, sexuality, none of it.  Are you a good person, do you have the expertise, and in this case, do you love the game.  That's all that matters to me.  Sitch would not be in this position if she did not meet those requirements.  Now lets just judge her on what we judge other coaches on ... wins/losses, style of play, and managing a high profile program.

That's all I will contribute to this.

SC.
Agree totally, and I cannot wait to celebrate her success.
The one thing in this entire world that has brought more people together in love/passion/competetion/rivalry/entertainment/enjoyment is FOOTBALL. Regardless of race, ethnicity, nationality, gender, political views (some good football played in Brazil 70 and Argentina78) football supersedes all.
I am actually surprised more women, former pros and just students of the game are not involved as well.


Anecdotally, you see a variety of reasons stemming from past underinvestment. I think there is historically a higher turnover rate in women's coaching filled with coaches ill equipped to coach women leading to a lack of quality role models that would inspire former players to coach. Compounded with a lack of a clear pathway towards gainful employment in women's soccer (parental leave, pay equity, old boys club mentality, etc) That said, I think we are towards the top of the tipping point for this, though not sure if we are on the up or down hill portion.

I think it is clubs are who are going to be the leaders in this area and pull the rest of the system behind it. With the concerted efforts to develop, license, and retain quality female coaches, you will see more and more in leadership at high level clubs giving young players more exposure.  It will also take current leaders committed to stomping out that old culture. A male player being unwilling to accept a qualified/competent female coach typically isn't a decision they've come to on their own, rather, that's been the vocal opinion of people they look to.

Hopkins92

My high school alma mater won the states a few years back with a female coach and female asst. coach, as well. My co-coach buddy and I like to (kind of) jokingly take partial credit for that win because our club team formed the nucleus of the high school squad. Jokingly, because the team was powered by an all-american striker that went on to start at Wisconsin for 3 years.

But we do take credit for pulling the aforementioned Asst. Coach into our club system. Not that she was coaching guys, but we still felt it was important for our team to have a different kind of voice/presence on the bench. It also allowed her to build a really strong bond with that nucleus, which was cool to see.

Gregory Sager

D3 men's soccer recently saw another female head coach added to the ranks: Colette Montgomery at North Central (MN). (That's the Rams of the UMAC, not the Cardinals of the CCIW.)

She's also going to remain the head coach of the NCU women's soccer team. Even with a full-time assistant helping her run the two programs, that's going to be a lot of work for her.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell